==Skarmory?==
Should Skarmory with Steel Wing be included here? After all, it is the only Pokemon that can learn it naturally.
:That would be a good case to make. Question is, how many others do that? '''[[User:TTEchidna|T]][[User talk:TTEchidna|T]][[wp:Echidna|Echidna]]''' 03:14, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
::Hitmonlee with {{M|Mega Kick}} [[User:Zurqoxn|Zurqoxn]] 03:56, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
::And I'm sure there are more, like Hitmonchan and {{m|Vacuum Wave}}. I, too, am used to call moves "signature" when they're exclusive to few by leveling up. --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 16:55, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
What about [[Porygon-Z]] and [[Trick Room]]? Though Trick Room is a [[TM]], only Porygon-Z learns it naturally. [[User:Tesh|Tesh]] 17:55, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

What about [[Metagross]] and [[Meteor Mash]]?
--[[User:Mooshykris|Mooshykris]] 22:02, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

[[Clefairy]] learns [[Meteor Mash]], though...hardly exclusive...
--[[User:Myrmidon|Myrmidom]]

And [[Chimchar]] with [[Facade]], this is the same scenario as [[Trick Room]]. [[User:Tesh|Tesh]] 15:18, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

== Level-up otherwise exclusive to TMs? ==

Okay, I just wanted to organize what's been said above. What we have so far is...

{| border=1 align="left" style="background: #fff; border:1px solid #000; border-collapse:collapse;"
|- style="background: #C0C0FF;"
! [[TM]] or [[HM]]
! [[Move]]
! [[Pokémon]]
! [[Level]]
! [[Generation]]
|- align="center"
| rowspan="2" | [[TM01]]
| rowspan="2" | {{m|Focus Punch}}
| rowspan="2" | {{p|Vigoroth}}
| 43
| {{gen|III}}
|- align="center"
| 43
| {{gen|IV}}
|- align="center"
| [[TM21]]
| {{m|Frustration}}
| {{p|Buneary}}
| 13
| {{gen|IV}}
|- align="center"
| [[TM27]]
| {{m|Return}}
| {{p|Lopunny}}
| 13
| {{gen|IV}}
|- align="center"
| [[TM42]]
| {{m|Facade}}
| {{p|Chimchar}}
| 31
| {{gen|IV}}
|- align="center"
| rowspan="3" | [[TM47]]
| rowspan="3" | {{m|Steel Wing}}
| rowspan="3" | {{p|Skarmory}}
| 49
| {{gen|II}}
|- align="center"
| 32
| {{gen|III}}
|- align="center"
| 38
| {{gen|IV}}
|- align="center"
| [[HM05]] ([[Generation III]])
| rowspan="2" | {{m|Flash}}
| rowspan="2" | {{p|Volbeat}}
| rowspan="2" | --
| rowspan="2" | {{gen|IV}}
|- align="center"
| [[TM70]]
|- align="center"
| [[TM72]]
| {{m|Avalanche}}
| {{p|Smoochum}}
| 31
| {{gen|IV}}
|- align="center"
| [[TM72]]
| {{m|Avalanche}}
| {{p|Jynx}}
| 33
| {{gen|IV}}
|- align="center"
| [[TM92]]
| {{m|Trick Room}}
| {{p|Porygon-Z}}
| --
| {{gen|IV}}
|- align="center"
| rowspan="4" | [[HM07]]
| rowspan="4" | {{m|Waterfall}}
| rowspan="4" | {{p|Goldeen}}
| 37
| {{gen|I}}
|- align="center"
| 38
| {{gen|II}}
|- align="center"
| 38
| {{gen|III}}
|- align="center"
| 37
| {{gen|IV}}
|- align="center"
| rowspan="4" | [[HM07]]
| rowspan="4" | {{m|Waterfall}}
| rowspan="4" | {{p|Seaking}}
| 39
| {{gen|I}}
|- align="center"
| 41
| {{gen|II}}
|- align="center"
| 41
| {{gen|III}}
|- align="center"
| 40
| {{gen|IV}}
|}
 

If anyone thinks of any others, go on and add them in here. '''[[User:TTEchidna|T]][[User talk:TTEchidna|T]][[wp:Echidna|Echidna]]''' 23:54, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

: As I said above, Hitmonlee with {{M|Mega Kick}}. [[User:Zurqoxn|Zurqoxn]] 01:52, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

::I placed it [[#Level-up_otherwise_exclusive_to_Move_Tutors.3F|here]] so that we stay in a [[Generation III]]/[[Generation IV|IV]] scope. --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 04:22, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Uh, Raquazza and Fly! Only he learns through level up!--[[User:Quick Man|Quick Man]] 12:57, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

== Level-up otherwise exclusive to Move Tutors? ==

This might be useful if "signature move" is furtherly redefined. --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 04:21, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

{| border=1 align="left" style="background: #fff; border:1px solid #000; border-collapse:collapse;"
|- style="background: #C0C0FF;"
! [[Move]]
! [[Pokémon]]
! [[Level]]
! [[Generation]]
|- align="center"
| rowspan="4" | {{m|Mega Kick}}
| rowspan="4" | {{p|Hitmonlee}}
| 53
| {{gen|I}}
|- align="center"
| 46
| {{gen|II}}
|- align="center"
| 46
| {{gen|III}}
|- align="center"
| 49
| {{gen|IV}}
|}
 

== Level-up otherwise exclusive to breeding? ==

In the article, {{m|Octazooka}} is listed as being signature of only {{p|Octillery}}, and {{m|Present}} is listed as being signature of only {{p|Delibird}} (just to mention some), which is true only if the definition of "signature moves" includes this type of moves. --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 06:06, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

{| border=1 align="left" style="background: #fff; border:1px solid #000; border-collapse:collapse;"
|- style="background: #C0C0FF;"
! [[Move]]
! [[Pokémon]]
! [[Level]]
! [[Generation]]
|- align="center"
| rowspan="2" | {{m|Icicle Spear}}
| rowspan="2" | {{p|Shellder}}
| 8
| {{gen|III}} ([[Pokémon FireRed and LeafGreen|FR/LG]])
|- align="center"
| 13
| {{gen|IV}}
|- align="center"
| rowspan="2" | {{m|SmellingSalt}}
| rowspan="2" | {{p|Makuhita}}
| 31
| {{gen|III}}
|- align="center"
| 22
| {{gen|IV}}
|- align="center"
| rowspan="2" | {{m|SmellingSalt}}
| rowspan="2" | {{p|Hariyama}}
| 33
| {{gen|III}}
|- align="center"
| 22
| {{gen|IV}}
|- align="center"
| {{m|Vacuum Wave}}
| {{p|Hitmonchan}}
| 26
| {{gen|IV}}
|}
 

== About evolved forms ==

Should stone-induced evolved forms be listed? {{p|Pikachu}} and {{p|Raichu}} appear in the article. However, the species that actually learns {{m|Volt Tackle}} is {{p|Pichu}} (making the [[Pokémon Battle Revolution#Colosseums|Battle Revolution Pikachu]] a [[Signature move#Trivia|trivia section]] material). If Raichu can appear in the list, then {{p|Togekiss}} and {{p|Mismagius}} should, too. --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 20:36, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
:No, I think that only the Pokémon that learns the move should be listed. So Pichu should be listed, but it's evolutions shouldn't. Only if the evolution learns the move then they an be listed. So both Cubone and Marowak learn Bonemerang, therefore both should be listed. [[Image:Ani137MS.gif]][[User:Tesh|'''TESH''']][[Image:Ani233MS.gif]][[User Talk:Tesh|'''TALK''']][[Image:Ani474MS.gif]] 15:57, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

==Splash?==

Would [[Splash (move)|Splash]] be eligible for inclusion here? A bunch of Pokémon can learn the move nowadays, but back in Generation I it was very much [[Magikarp (Pokémon)|Magikarp]]'s trademark. A similar case is already included on the list (Petal Dance, which was exclusive to the Oddish line in Generation I). [[User:Bikini Miltank|Bikini Miltank]] 08:48, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

:You're right, according to the current status of the article. But I think that kind of moves shouldn't appear in the list. IMO, in any case, [[Generation III]] stuff is the only past generation that should be mentioned, as it's compatible with [[Generation IV]], but I still don't like the idea.
:I take it this all started with the ExtremeSpeed Dratini from the trivia section, right? Well, that Dratini is obsolete, too. I propose we get rid of ExtremeSpeed Dratini and there won't be need for the ExtremeSpeed Arcanine and the other obsolete groups. --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 16:18, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

NO! Lol, we should split this article into each Generation, with a trivia section for Pokémon that do not learn a move naturally. Like Dratini in GenII. I think this would be better. <big>[[Image:Ani137MS.gif]][[User:Tesh|'''TESH''']][[Image:Ani233MS.gif]][[User Talk:Tesh|'''TALK''']] [[Image:Ani474MS.gif]][[User:Tesh/Other|'''FUN''']]</big> 16:20, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

:Yeah... one of the things I was going to suggest was listing the likes of Splash, ExtremeSpeed and so on in a seperate table, for moves that were once exclusive to a single line, but aren't anymore. I think these moves are certainly worth mentioning somewhere in the article, as they might still be relevant to someone who's playing any of the older games. '''[[User:Bikini Miltank|Bikini Miltank]]'''[[Image:Ani241MS.gif]][[User_Talk:Bikini Miltank|Moo, I say.]] 23:33, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
::You mean like {{p|Blaziken}}'s {{m|Blaze Kick}}? '''<sc>[[User:Optimus35|{{tt|Optimatum♏|Optimus35}}]]</sc>[[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|♊]]Hi''' 05:03, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
:::Splash/Magikarp should be there, and Blaze Kick/Blaziken should have been there ages ago! '''[[Image:Ani081MS.gif|35px]][[User:MAGNEDETH|MAGNEDETH]][[Image:Ani082MS.gif|35px]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|TA]][[User:MAGNEDETH/Riddles|RID]][[User:MAGNEDETH/new evolutions|NE]][[User:MAGNEDETH/do over|DO]][[User:MAGNEDETH/Pokemon teams|PT]][[Image:Ani462MS.gif|35px]]''' 05:05, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

== Magnemite ==

ok, sorry about that, but i think Zap Cannon should at least be there, other than the TM, only it and Porygon could learn it in Gen II. on that note, hows about Magnet Bomb, which only they and Nosepass/Probopass can learn? '''[[Image:Ani081MS.gif|35px]][[User:MAGNEDETH|MAGNEDETH]][[Image:Ani082MS.gif|35px]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|TA]][[User:MAGNEDETH/Riddles|RID]][[User:MAGNEDETH/new evolutions|NE]][[User:MAGNEDETH/do over|DO]][[User:MAGNEDETH/Pokemon teams|PT]][[Image:Ani462MS.gif|35px]]''' 04:59, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
:Skay. Magnet Bomb, however.. I think we should add that. [[User:Tina|Tina]] [[Special:Contributions/Tina|δ]][[User talk:Tina|♫]] 05:05, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
::idk, i still think Zap Cannon should be there. i didnt even know Porygon could learn it untill a few mins ago. '''[[Image:Ani081MS.gif|35px]][[User:MAGNEDETH|MAGNEDETH]][[Image:Ani082MS.gif|35px]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|TA]][[User:MAGNEDETH/Riddles|RID]][[User:MAGNEDETH/new evolutions|NE]][[User:MAGNEDETH/do over|DO]][[User:MAGNEDETH/Pokemon teams|PT]][[Image:Ani462MS.gif|35px]]''' 05:06, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
::::As of GenIV, 13 Pokémon can learn Zap Cannon.. [[User:Tina|Tina]] [[Special:Contributions/Tina|δ]][[User talk:Tina|♫]] 05:10, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
:::::As in check the {{m|Zap Cannon}} page...'''<sc>[[User:Optimus35|{{tt|Optimatum♏|Optimus35}}]]</sc>[[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|♊]]Hi''' 05:12, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
::::ok, i thought there were notes for previous Gens. '''[[Image:Ani081MS.gif|35px]][[User:MAGNEDETH|MAGNEDETH]][[Image:Ani082MS.gif|35px]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|TA]][[User:MAGNEDETH/Riddles|RID]][[User:MAGNEDETH/new evolutions|NE]][[User:MAGNEDETH/do over|DO]][[User:MAGNEDETH/Pokemon teams|PT]][[Image:Ani462MS.gif|35px]]''' 05:20, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

now wait a minute...Tina agreed that Magnet Bomb should be added as a sig move. besides, the page even says, "can only be learned by a single Pokémon '''or a very small select group of Pokémon'''." both Magnemite and Probopass are Steel with magnet-ness. '''[[Image:Ani081MS.gif|35px]][[User:MAGNEDETH|MAGNEDETH]][[Image:Ani082MS.gif|35px]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|TA]][[User:MAGNEDETH/Riddles|RID]][[User:MAGNEDETH/new evolutions|NE]][[User:MAGNEDETH/do over|DO]][[User:MAGNEDETH/Pokemon teams|PT]][[Image:Ani462MS.gif|35px]]''' 05:29, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
::So? That would mean I had to kick in the kickingfeet Pokémon and the chicken...Reasons:
#They don't seem to be related...
#Five Pokémon isn't a small group
#Tina agreed, so I'm saying the opposite...
'''<sc>[[User:Optimus35|{{tt|Optimatum♏|Optimus35}}]]</sc>[[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|♊]]Hi''' 05:31, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

::well...
::#they are related, magnet-ness alnog with both lvling up at Coronet
::#its technically only 2 Pokemon, Magnemite and Probopass, the page lists Mag's evo line and Probopass twice (for some reason)
::
::'''[[Image:Ani081MS.gif|35px]][[User:MAGNEDETH|MAGNEDETH]][[Image:Ani082MS.gif|35px]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|TA]][[User:MAGNEDETH/Riddles|RID]][[User:MAGNEDETH/new evolutions|NE]][[User:MAGNEDETH/do over|DO]][[User:MAGNEDETH/Pokemon teams|PT]][[Image:Ani462MS.gif|35px]]''' 05:37, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
:::Ack! You win...'''<sc>[[User:Optimus35|{{tt|Optimatum♏|Optimus35}}]]</sc>[[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|♊]]Hi''' 05:39, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
::::i didnt fight because its Magnemite, i just fought for the truth! that being said, i still think Blaziken should be on there with a note about Gen 3 or somthing. '''[[Image:Ani081MS.gif|35px]][[User:MAGNEDETH|MAGNEDETH]][[Image:Ani082MS.gif|35px]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|TA]][[User:MAGNEDETH/Riddles|RID]][[User:MAGNEDETH/new evolutions|NE]][[User:MAGNEDETH/do over|DO]][[User:MAGNEDETH/Pokemon teams|PT]][[Image:Ani462MS.gif|35px]]''' 05:43, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
:::::Capitalized please...Hitmonlee and Blaziken seems select enough...'''<sc>[[User:Optimus35|{{tt|Optimatum♏|Optimus35}}]]</sc>[[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|♊]]Hi''' 05:44, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

== Splitting ==

This page needs to be split up into Generations I think. There are too many prior to Genration IV. [[User:Tesh|'''TESHIGIGAS''']] [[Image:486MS.png|RAWR!!]] 20:44, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
:No, No. That's not needed. It's fine how it is. --'''[[User:Theryguy512|Theryguy]][[User talk:Theryguy512|5]][[User:Theryguy512/Contribution Page|1]][[User:Theryguy512/Similarities|2]]''' 21:22, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
::But then we could sychronise the trivia into it as well. [[User:Tesh|'''TESHIGIGAS''']] [[Image:486MS.png|RAWR!!]] 18:11, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

== Small group? ==

Since Mathis seems to have decided to take a chainsaw to the list, I have to ask: How big is a "small group" of Pokémon? [[User:Cassius335|- Cassius335]] 12:24, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
:small group denotes 2 evo lines. so, as seen above, with {{m|Magnet Bomb}}, only two pokemon can learn it, with the exception of their own evos. -- '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAG]][[User:MAGNEDETH#Interesting Stuff|NE]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|DETH]]''' 19:31, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
:: Ok. *points at the top of the page* What about {{m|Meteor Mash}} then? [[User:Cassius335|- Cassius335]] 00:45, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
:::well, somone should add that to the page. along with the others in my opinion. though, it could be argued that Math earlier had the right idea. super exclusive only. -- '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAG]][[User:MAGNEDETH#Interesting Stuff|NE]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|DETH]]''' 00:55, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

== Staryu ==

In Generation III, [[Staryu]] was the only Pokemon who could learn [[Camouflage (move)|Camouflage]]. [[Mothim]] can now learn it in Gen IV. Nevertheless, I would assume that Staryu would count as a Pokémon with a signature move before Gen IV. -[[User:TIMMY|TIMMY]]

: Added. [[User:Zurqoxn|Zurqoxn]] 20:31, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

::Really, exactly two Pokemon knowing a move is still pretty exclusive. [[User:Cassius335|- Cassius335]] 09:07, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

:::We're still missing {{p|Mothim}} on there though...I guess I'll add it unless anyone has any objections...[[User:Ht14|ht14]] 00:35, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

== Skitty ==

Well, Skitty (and Delecatty, but Skitty Evolves into that) were the only ones to know assist until Generation IV, I think Skitty deserves a mention (Delecatty doesn't scince she only learns VIA from Skitty knowing before evelution).--[[User:Quick Man|Quick Man]] 13:26, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

== Cleanup ==

This article NEEDS some cleanup... some signature moves don't make sense and some are in a lot of pokemon, so they should be removed. I think if a pokemon prior to Gen IV now learns a GEN IV move, it shouldn't be mentioned, 'cause it's obvious that another pokemon will learn the same move (for example Relicanth that learns [[Head Smash (move)|Cranidos' signature]]. in that case Relicanth should be removed). If someone doesn't agree with me, then just undo it. '''[[User:Hfc2x|hfc]][[User talk:Hfc2x|2X]]''' 00:47, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
:It's fine. '''[[User:Pachirisulover12|PL]][[User talk:Pachirisulover12|12]]''' 00:48, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
::It's fine if it's only one or two different evolution families. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 04:04, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

== Crush Grip ==

What about the Combusken who has Crush Grip in PBR

Talk:Arceus (Pokémon)/Archive 1

2008-07-13T06:18:17Z

Tannerbro: /* The plates */

Um, {{u|TTEchidna}}, you put down that Arseus can become an ???-type Pokémon by holding a ??? Plate. Where'd you get that from?--[[User:Pokencyclopedia|Pokencyclopedia]] 21:35, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Man u have got to be kidding me Arceus catch rate should not be 3. I used my Action replay to get the item 4 arceus then i went and caought it on my 5th dusk ball. My friend caought it on him 1st ultra ball. Another friend i gave the item 2 caught it on his 2nd qiuck ball.
:Man, you have to be kidding me, you can't even spell the word "you" right. Arceus's catch rate is 3. If you'll notice, those balls multiply the catch rate formula by quite a bit, which greatly increases the chance to be caught. Plus, it's all on luck, I've had Magikarp break out of balls before. --'''[[User:TTEchidna|T]][[User talk:TTEchidna|T]][[wp:Echidna|Echidna]]''' 22:36, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

I added an alternative origin to Arceus's name that I found on: http://www.serebiiforums.com/showthread.php?t=286767.[[User:Draconium|Draconium]] 23:42, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

==Is there a point...==
Is there a point of having a table for each of the plates when it is attached to Arceus?
We could just have Arceus without a plate, and then have each title with an image and a sentence saying what type Arceus changes to.
For Example:

==Type effectiveness==
[[Image:493Arseus.png|thumb|right|Sprite for {{type2|Normal}} Arceus]]
===No plate equipped===
{{DP type effectiveness|
Normal= 100 |
Fighting=200 |
Flying= 100 |
Poison= 100 |
Ground= 100 |
Rock= 100 |
Bug= 100 |
Ghost= 0 |
Steel= 100 |

Fire= 100 |
Water= 100 |
Grass= 100 |
Electric=100 |
Psychic= 100 |
Ice= 100 |
Dragon= 100 |
Dark= 100 }}
[[Image:Spr 4d 493-Fire.png|thumb|right|Sprite for {{type2|Fire}} Arceus]]
===With Flame Plate===
When the Flame Plate is attached to Arceus, it becomes a Fire type.

etc... [[User:Tesh|Tesh]] 23:06, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

==Picture==
I have this picture:

[[Image:Arceus.PNG]]

I did not draw it. I want to use it on the page. It is much better than trying to stare at a tiny sprite. --[[User:Stinkoman|Stinkoman]] 15:08, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

:Better than a sprite for sure, but it'd be nice if we could find one without such bad compression artifacts. [[User:Invisible Shiny Bulbasaur|Invisible Shiny Bulbasaur]] 22:30, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
::I don't think we should really be using an unofficial image for the page. What would be nice is if somebody could get a nice, high-quality (as in NOT a photo of the monitor) screenshot of ARceus from PBR.--[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 01:22, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
:::You mean hack an Arceus and copy it into PBR?
[[Image:Psychic-attack.png|Psychic]][[Image:Ani475MS.gif]] '''[[User:Optimus35|Agent]] [[Gallade (Pokémon)|448]][[User talk:Optimus35|Talk]] | [[User:Optimus35/Diamond&Pearl|DP]]''' [[Image:Fighting-attack.png|Fighting]] 11:46, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

== Sprites? ==

Should we include separate sprite templates for all of the forms, or just do it for one? I know that Unown and Castform, among others, would serve the same problem. '''[[User:TTEchidna|T]][[User talk:TTEchidna|T]][[wp:Echidna|Echidna]]''' 22:10, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

== Art?! ==

I'd like to know the source of Arceus' picture. Mainly because it hasn't been revealed yet. TinaTheKirlia 02:44, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
:It's a piece of fanart. --[[User:DarkfireTaimatsu|DarkfireTaimatsu]] 02:47, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
::That's what I thought, although there was an edit that said "Official Art" or something and it was rather confusing. TinaTheKirlia 16:29, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
I think we should replace that art with a sprite. It seems inaccurate... Mariocaper 19:19, 20 September 2007

Yeah, and we could enlarge the size of the sprite so it won't be that tiny anymore, right? [[Image:Psychic-attack.png|Psychic]]http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/sprites/dpiconani/dpiconani475.gif '''[[User:Optimus35|Optimus35]][[User talk:Optimus35|Talk]] | [[User:Optimus35/Diamond&Pearl|DP]]''' [[Image:Fighting-attack.png|Fighting]] 06:45, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
:Enlarged sprites look terrible. --[[User:DarkfireTaimatsu|DarkfireTaimatsu]] 06:49, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
::Couldn't we get a PBR screenshot? And I mean a screenshot, not someone pointing their camera at a television? (We need that for Rosy and Sashay, too...)--[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 07:13, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
::I can't, my FRAPS only works on full screen games like Maple Story...I think we could take the Arceus photo, enlarge it and sharpen it a little, then put it back on bulba. The only problem with this is that the sprite would be oversize...
:::I hope that you have permission to use that piece of fan art. --[[Special:Contributions/Kenji-girl|☆]][[Tracey Sketchit|ケンジ]][[User:Kenji-girl|ガール]] 21:27, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
::::I've got five PBR shots. They're all in my [[User:Optimus35/Sandbox|sandbox]]. Click on the links under 'Arceus'. Tell me which one looks best on my talk page and I'll upload it onto Bulbagarden Archives...[[Image:Ani475MS.gif]] '''[[User:Optimus35|Agent]] [[User:Optimus35/Mission|4]][[User:Optimus35/Emerald|4]][[Gallade (Pokémon)|8]][[User talk:Optimus35|δ]] | [[User:Optimus35/Diamond&Pearl|DP]]''' | [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?limit=50&title=Special%3AContributions&contribs=user&target=Optimus35&namespace=0&year=&month=-1 ☆][[Image:Ani282MS.gif]] 09:01, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Change the pic!
[[User:Crystallucario|Crystallucario]] 14:54, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
:The reason why we're not changing it is because it's nicely done fanart, and it's more easier to look at this instead of a sprite.
:Otherwise it'd be absolute hell for me to draw Arceus. Still is, but certainly more easier than looking at a sprite. :p [[User:Tina|Tina]] [[Special:Contributions/Tina|δ]][[User talk:Tina|♫]] 16:40, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
hmmm maybe ok whatever...
[[User:Crystallucario|CrystalLucario 12:23, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
::...except, do we have permission to use the image? The image page doesn't seem to claim it at all, so I'm going to go ahead and guess that we're doing something illegal or at least unethical here. Seriously, why can't we just use a PBR shot?[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 00:58, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
:::Since when was pokemon ever ethical? Think about it, the aim of the game is to run away from home at 10 years old (good parenting skills mom) and after having abuse a poor little starly to the brink of death by slashing it over and over again with false swipe you throw something at it, only adding to the poor creature's pain and torture only to trap it inside a small, cramped chamber for the rest of its unnatural life whilst using it to abuse other pokemon. But anyways I digress, the point is the piece of fanart looks nice, is accurate and fits in perfectly with all the official pokemon artwork. Hell when I first visited the page I thought it WAS a piece of official artwork. A PBR snapshot would not be at all as effective as the fanart. So no, we ain't havin a PBR shot. [[User:Wikid|Wikid]] 16:20, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

::::No one is questioning the ethics of the series, just in using someone else's work without their consent. Besides, the face is drawn wrong. There should be more lines running across it. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 16:28, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Metronome ==

My Mew used Judgement through Metronome. Should I include something like this under "Trivia":

Although Nintendo is attempting to keep Arceus secret, it is possible for Arceus's signature move, {{m|Judgment}}, to be used through {{m|Metronome}}, thus potentially revealing the existence of Arceus to otherwise unaware fans.

--[[User:Shiny Noctowl|Shiny Noctowl]][[User talk:Shiny Noctowl|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Shiny Noctowl|Contribs]][[Image:Ani480MS.gif]] 20:33, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

i could draw arceus if that would help. i like drawing pokémon. [[talonclawz]] new comer!!!!!!!!!! [[Image:Ani444MS.gif‎]]

== Shishigami? ==

Should any mention of the Forest Spirit Shishigami from Miyazaki Hayao's Mononoke-Hime be mentioned in the article? Arceus seems to have a resemblance to Shishigami. In addition, on the illegal hacked Pokémon Diamond (Telefang Power), Shishigami appears on the front, despite not having anything to do with the game (that's the way those criminals work), and then in the real Pokémon Diamond, Arceus was added. Does anyone else think that some trivia should be added about this? ~Kumori Satosuke
:Outside of the whole quadrupedal thing, I don't think there's anything else that's official to suggest a connection. For example, Arceus seems to be nothing outside of a creator, while shishigami is given dominion over life and death.--[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 03:27, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
::Yes, I agree. There really isn't anything linking the two other than a vague (And I do mean VAGUE.) resemblance. --[[User:Dual|Dual]] 14:15, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

== ??? type sprite may prevent crash ==
Just a theory, but the programmers at Game Freak may have drawn and programmmed a ??? type Arceus to prevent game crashes. Anyone with a code patcher can figure out how to change a Pokémon's type. They might have figured that someone would tamper with Arceus's type, and if they changed it to a ??? type, and there was no sprite for it, the game would crash because it would try loading data that does not exist. That's my theory anyway. [[User:Fsilone|Fsilone]] 02:10, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
:That's really logical. figure that by yourself? But I still don't know if we should put that in the article.[[Image:Ani471MS.gif]][[User:Pokemaniac102|'''Poke''''''maniac''''''102''']][[Image:AniEggMS.gif]] 02:17, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

::im a little iffy on the grammer, but other than that i think its a fantastic theory and should be in the trivia section. excellent. now all i need to do is figure out how to do it myself in my game with the Action Replay... [[Image:Ani081MS.gif|35px]][[User:MAGNEDETH|MAGNEDETH]][[Image:Ani082MS.gif|35px]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|TALK]][[Image:Ani462MS.gif|35px]] 02:30, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

:::You can't - you need to edit the rom data - action replay only edits temporary and save data. Think so anyway. '''[[:User:Origamiguy|折り紙ガイ]] - [[:User_talk:Origamiguy|離す]][[:Special:Contributions/Origamiguy|貢献]]''' 15:37, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

I think I don't see anything grammatically wrong. I copied the words above and reworded it into sentences.[[Image:Ani471MS.gif]][[User:Pokemaniac102|'''Poke''''''maniac''''''102''']][[Image:AniEggMS.gif]] 02:34, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

:yea, im probibly wrong, im not joking when i say i failed english class......twice...with a 54..... [[Image:Ani081MS.gif|35px]][[User:MAGNEDETH|MAGNEDETH]][[Image:Ani082MS.gif|35px]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|TALK]][[Image:Ani462MS.gif|35px]] 03:42, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

what the heck is shishigami? is it a pokémon?(someone out there?) [[-talonclawz]] new comer!!!!! [[Image:212MS.gif]] 1:06, 5 April 2008

No. Wait a minute if you don't know that Errr...how new are you to Pokémon?[[User:Crystallucario|'''''Crystal''''']] [[User talk:Crystallucario|'''''Lucario''''']] 17:43, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

A shishigami is a Japanese god of death. [[User:LordKaien|LordKaien]] 14:51, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

== {{type2|???}} Sprite ==

[[Image:Question-Type Arceus Before.jpg|thumb|left|Before]][[Image:Question-Type Arceus After.jpg|thumb|right|After]]How long has the sprite of ???-type Arceus been pulling that vanishing act? Basically, the only time you can see the sprite is when the white background on PNG-format images is still visible, as seen in the Before shot. Once the white backgrounds vanish, the rest of the sprite should still be there. However, on ???-type Arceus, the sprite vanishes along with the background, as seen in the After shot. Is there a way to fix this?

(The shots in question come from an area of my own user page, specifically a [[Template:User Favorite Move|favorite move tag]] programmed for a ???-type move and {{m|Curse}} with the Arceus sprite in question for a laugh. The [[Template:User 2000|2000-edits in a month tag]] above it is also shown for comparison.) --[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 05:41, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

:Wow. That's weird that it just disappears! --[[Image:Spr 3e 059.gif|70px]][[Image:Spr 3e 132.gif]]'''[[User:Theryguy512|Theryguy]][[User:Theryguy512/Contribution Page|5]][[User:Theryguy512/Mission Page|1]][[User:Theryguy512/Sandbox|2]]''' [[Image:Trozeiani025.gif]] 11:59, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
I think I figured out the vanishing act. It's due to the filename. Many operating systems don't allow question marks in filenames, and it's probably due to those that caused the image to vanish. I went and uploaded an image to [[a:Image:Spr 4d 493-Unknown.png|Image:Spr 4d 493-Unknown.png]] on the archives, and that image works as it should! Every instance of the vanishing image has been changed to the one that doesn't vanish, so you won't be seeing vanishing ???-type Arceus again anytime soon. --[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 16:37, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

== Pic ==

Okay, I remember {{u|Urutapu}} saying something about a screenshot of Arceus from PBR. Well, I got a Wii ''and'' PBR for Christmas. And I have *cough*cheated*cough* four Arceuses. All I need now is a good-quality emulator that can screenshot my Wii with. Any suggestions?
--{{u|Stinkoman}}

Somehow theres a way of putting a SCART socket into your PC and running it through that. My mate's computer can do that but i think it had the socket when he bought it. [[Image:Ani258MS.gif]][[User:Origamiguy|OrigamiGuy]] Lieks [[Mudkip (Pokémon)|Mudkipz]][[Image:Ani258MS.gif]]

== Officially been revealed ==
Until this Pokemon has been officially revealed (by Nintendo or Coro Coro magazine) this page should be removed, because the only reason why there is proof of its existence is through a hacking or cheating device.
:WHAT! This page should be included on here. If it is in the Game, weather or not if it has been reaveled, it IS STILL IN THE GAME WITHOUT HAVING TO BE MADE{{Ani|493}}[[User:Darth Cookie Monster|'''C ''']]{{Ani|491}}[[User talk:Darth Cookie Monster|''' Is''']]{{Ani|426}}[[User:Darth Cookie Monster/My Story|'''for Cookie''']]{{Ani|473}}
::Yea, this page is about a Pokémon. In case you don't know (hopefully you do), this is a Pokémon encyclopedia. This page is like mandatory. --'''[[User:Theryguy512|Theryguy]][[User talk:Theryguy512|5]][[User:Theryguy512/Contribution Page|1]][[User:Theryguy512/Similarities|2]]''' 02:12, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
:::Exactly. We have pages for all Pokémon ''officially programmed into the games''. Would you come here before Deoxys was revealed and say "NUH UH THERE'S ONLY 201 IN HOENN DEOXYS IS A HAKKER ONLY POKEMAN." Arceus is official, they're just holding off on the official revelation. Besides... plenty of Pokémon from each generation were never revealed through CoroCoro or by Nintendo individually. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]][[Image:Ani155MS.gif|Fire echy]]''' 07:07, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

I may only be 10, but take it from me. Arceus is real. It is on pokemon.com's pokedex.[[User:DaPikanator56|DaPikanator56]] 18:47, 22 March 2008 (UTC){{u|DaPikanator56}}
:Well, actually, it's not on the PokéDex on [[Pokemon.com]], but yes, it is real. --'''[[User:Theryguy512|Theryguy]][[User talk:Theryguy512|5]][[User:Theryguy512/Contribution Page|1]][[User:Theryguy512/Similarities|2]]''' 13:17, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
::An example of what TTE said would be the Porygons. '''<sc>[[User:Optimus35|{{tt|Optimatum♏|Optimus35}}]]</sc>[[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|♊]]02:32 30 Mar 2008'''

Oh yeah! It and ummm... {{p|Shaymin}} I think aren't Theryguy.[[User:DaPikanator56|DaPikanator56]] 18:52, 30 March 2008 (UTC){{u|DaPikanator56}}
:Shaymin has been acknowledged by official Japanese sources. And to address the original point, we are not Wikipedia. Everyone knows that Arceus is real, so this page is a necessity. Hell, we have articles for a lot of glitch Pokémon so a real one definately passes. --[[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] [[User talk:Fabu-Vinny|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Fabu-Vinny|C]]-[[User:Fabu-Vinny/Sandbox|S]] 23:52, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

True...Oh, and by the way, in the summer I will shorten my visits here, but this place rules! It ain't demented like Chuckie Cheese's.
:) ^-^[[User:DaPikanator56|DaPikanator56]] 22:31, 3 April 2008 (UTC)DaPikanator56

==Picture==

I found this picture interesting, but low quality. [http://www.pokebeach.com/news/0507/arceus.jpg its on www.pokebeach.com] --[[User:Britannia's Blade|Britannia's Blade]] 21:25, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
:Good find, but it's already linked from the article [[Arceus (Pokémon)#External links|right here]]. --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 23:38, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

------------
I also just found this one [http://www.arkeis.com/images/pokemonfactory/arceus.png ****] Fan art of course but very serious looking, Lots more like it [http://www.arkeis.com/legendaries.htm here] what do you think? --[[User:Britannia's Blade|Britannia's Blade]] 18:47, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
:I don't see how fanart is very notable to put up here.. >_> [[User:Tina|Tina]] [[Special:Contributions/Tina|δ]][[User talk:Tina|♫]] 19:06, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
::The one we have right now will do us until Arcy is revealed next year. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 20:37, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
:::What about this one? - [http://www.pokebeach.com/news/0507/arceus2.jpg (1)] '''[[:User:Origamiguy|折り紙ガイ]] - [[:User_talk:Origamiguy|離す]][[:Special:Contributions/Origamiguy|貢献]]''' 15:45, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
::::-Gasp- Why not that one! Ooo, take it! TAKE IT!!! '''[[User:Optimus35|<sc>Optimatum</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''13:53 2 May 2008'''''
TTE, Arceus isn't going 2 be revealed 4 two years yet. [[User:LordKaien|LordKaien]] 14:53, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

==Arceus and Giratina==
Aren't Arceus and Giratina sort of opposites of each other because Arceus is God and Giratina is the devil sort of, I mean Arceus didn't create Giratina so that means they were the two entities before time started. [[User:Big Johnno|Pokémon Master]] 17:46 15 May 2008
:Maybe you're right, but i think that Giratina is part of the Dragon Trio. [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 23:37, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
::Giratina is the BOSS! It saved the two other Pokamon! Posted by the '''[[User:Optimus35|<sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''01:04 17 May 2008'''''
:Hold on, there's no reason to get angry. Why can't we just WAIT until Arceus is officially revealed? Isn't that BETTER than argueing? [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 23:37, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

In my eyes it would be

Dialga + Palkia = Rivals (Time VS Space)

Giratina + Arceus = Rivals (God VS Darkness?)

So yeah, regardless of the fact Giratina is part of the Dragon Trio.
(''Thinking about it, those four are exactly the same as my characters |: Lily = Controls Time. Darkness = Controls Space. Akito = Controls Death. Rose = Controls Life/Is a sort-of God. But anyway, my characters are irrelevant too this xD'') [[User:Takoto|Takoto タコト]]| サソデイ = 愛 14:37, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
:So, Arceus is God/JesusHoly Spirit, and Giratina is Satan? O.O It's Da '''[[User:Optimus35|<sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''06:03 26 May 2008'''''
::Arceus is Arceus. Giratina is Giratina. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 07:02, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
:::Meh, that's the Atheist way of seeing it. Hey, wait, am I about to be stone for being anti-atheist? Damn. It's Da '''[[User:Optimus35|<sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''07:13 26 May 2008'''''
::::I didn't say Giratina was Satan, i simply said he was...darkness. [[User:Takoto|Takoto タコト]]| サソデイ = 愛 02:05, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
My question is, how do you KNOW Giratina is bad, or if Arceus is even good? How do you KNOW Giratina wasn't created by Arceus? You don't. Besides, Neither ot them are from Christianity, and U know what? I'm a devout Christian and I don't care if Arceus wasn't based off of my God. [[User:LordKaien|LordKaien]] 14:56, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
:Does anybody want to see it this way, "WE SHOULD ALL JUST WAIT"? [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 22:06, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
::I don't think Giratina is evil. You don't have too be evil/whatever to control darkness/whatever Giratina controls. I do not think Giratina is evil! [[User:Takoto|Takoto タコト]]| サソデイ = 愛 22:22, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
:Is this text INVISIBLE? WE SHOULD ALL JUST WAIT! [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 00:28, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

== More sprites ==

Ok, so we have all the type sprites for Arceus and it's shiny sprite, but we don't have shiny forms for Arceus' other types. Could someone please tell me if it's possible to get those sprites and if so get them for us? [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 12:08, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
:If i could, i would, but i can't, so i can't help you. I'm not even 100% sure Arceus's other-type sprites HAVE shiny versions of them :| [[User:Takoto|Takoto タコト]]| サソデイ = 愛 14:27, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
::They do. And a simple method is to color the sprites the right color. The white portion of the body is the only part which remains constant throughout the non-shiny forms. and when it becomes shiny, the rings are the same color as those of the non-shiny ones. The only thing that differs between non-shiny and shiny is the white portion, which turns yellow. It's Da '''[[User:Optimus35|<sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''06:01 26 May 2008'''''
:So... could you do that for us as a favor? [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 22:02, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
::I might have those sprites on my computer somewhere. Want me to upload them? [[User:Yinyang1195|Yin]][[User talk:Yinyang1195|Yang]] 20:05, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
:::I don't see why not other than you apperently not knowing where they are. And someone PLEASE get rid of that fan artwork, it's unofficial up here! [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 22:58, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
::::Helloooooooooooooooo, its been 2 weeks. Are you going to respond? [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 19:00, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
::::HURRY UP ALREADY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 15:49, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

==When?==
How long before he's in a movie? Does anyone know?[[User:LordKaien|LordKaien]] 14:58, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
:Following the pattern, Arceus will be in next year's movie. --[[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] |[[User talk:Fabu-Vinny|Talk Page]]| 15:13, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
::or it'll be a lake trio, or cresselia movie. They did tha with Jirachi.[[User:LordKaien|LordKaien]] 15:24, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
Don't forget we've sill got Heatran and Raikou to go yet, along with regigigas, so I'd say we've got quite a while.[[User:Wikid|Wikid]] 16:30, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

:Regigigas is in the Giratina and Shaymin movie. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 16:33, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
::I really hope next years is about ether Arceus or Cresselia [[User:Takoto|Takoto タコト]]| サソデイ = 愛 16:38, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Metronome and Judgement ==

If a player knows nothing about Arceus, how would they know that Judgement is its signature attack? Even if it is used by a Pokémon using Metronome. So could Metronome really spoil the surprise? ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 02:50, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
:Not really. ^^; Metronome can do ANYTHING. Even Explosion so...'''[[User:Optimus35|It's the <sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''02:54 4 Jun 2008'''''
::Well, if they were like "Ooh, what learns that?!" and can't find anyone, they'll suspect it to be some crazy legendary not yet shown. And have lived under a rock since EVERYONE KNOWS OF ARCEUS. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 03:03, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
:::Hmm, then Singapore must be under a rock. Only two people I know know what's Arceus, that includes me. '''[[User:Optimus35|It's the <sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''03:12 4 Jun 2008'''''
::::Or this is nintendo's way of teasing us. kinda like,
Player:"What pokémon learns this?"
Nintendo:"Wait and see"
Player:"You suck."[[User:LordKaien|LordKaien]] 12:39, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

I only ask because of this quote in the trivia:

"''Although Nintendo is attempting to keep Arceus secret, it is possible for Arceus's signature move, Judgment, to be used through Metronome, thus potentially revealing the existence of Arceus to otherwise unaware fans.''"

Plus, Nintendo ''has'' to know that the majority of their fanbase uses the internet. Every Pokémon website except the "official" ones have info on Arceus. A lot of them even before the games were released globally. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 15:57, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
:The majority of the fanbase are kids who don't necessarily visit fansites. --[[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] |[[User talk:Fabu-Vinny|Talk Page]]| 16:02, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
::No ([[User:MathijsP|MathijsP]] 16:03, 4 June 2008 (UTC))
:::Yes. --[[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] |[[User talk:Fabu-Vinny|Talk Page]]| 16:04, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
::::No ([[User:MathijsP|MathijsP]] 16:05, 4 June 2008 (UTC))

:::::I would have to disagree with that statement. I believe that most fans may have been kids at the beginning when Pokémon first came out, but now have grown as the series has. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 16:18, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

A similar thing happened to me when I was playing PBR. I ordered my Togepi to use Metronome and out came Judgment. I wondered what Pokémon used this move until I checked this site and I found Arceus. I didn't even know about its existence AT ALL when Metronome was used that one year ago... {{ani|385}}[[User:BlueJirachi|BlueJirachi]] 18:01, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

== Arceus's pattern in the anime? ==

I didn't get a second look (mainly because I deleted the episode from my DVR), but I heard in the episode "Journey to the Unknown!" that Saturn was holding a cube with Arceus's pattern on it... [[User:ShinyRayquaza|ShinyRayquaza]] 19:35, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

== Arceus + Sky Plate? ==

If you attach a Sky Plate to Arceus, wouldn't that make it become the first pure Flying-type Pokémon? [[User:Wynautluvr|Wynautluvr]] 16:53, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

:It is the first "permanent" pure Flying-type. The Porygon line can become Flying-types with their Conversion moves, and Kecleon can with its Color Change Ability. These Pokémon, however, revert back to Normal when the battle is over. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 18:56, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

::It's not permanent, in that you can change the plate and it loses the pure-flying status... '''[[:User:Origamiguy|Lord]] of [[:User_talk:Origamiguy|Ori]][[Special:Contributions/Origamiguy|gami]]''' 15:16, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
:::It's permanent in that it doesn't go away just because the battle ends. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 21:46, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
::::No its not. Its only a permanent flying type if its natural type (i.e. no plate) is flying. You might as well say its also the first permamnent ??? type since it can become that (potentially) too.[[User:Wikid|Wikid]] 16:43, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

:::::If you never remove the plate, then it's permanent. Plus, you can't obtain a ???-type Arceus in-game in any normal fashion. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 16:45, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

:::::: Says you. firstly, the word permanent implies that the typing can never be changed. If you unequip the plate Arceus goes back to normal therefore it's not permanent. At best I would say its semi-permament. Secondly, there might a ??? plate given out at an event or found somewhere in platinum like Glacidia's flower. ??? forme arceus might be the result when you enter the torn world with arceus. It might even be what Arceus looks like when it is a shadow pokemon as there might be a new game coming out to do with shadow pokemon and DPP might be the first generation where you can trade shadow pokemon over. Therefore if you can trade it as shadow poke between DP and platinum then there is a way to get an ??? forme Arceus in a normal fashion.[[User:Wikid|Wikid]] 17:21, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Fine. "Semi-permanent". ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 17:24, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== The plates ==

The [[plates]] mite actually be man-made since there is understandable writing on them that the player can read in the games. The [[???-type]] mite not hve a plate but a location to activate that effect or a differently designed plate most probably.--[[User:Nobody777|Nobody777]] 13:27, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
*One word: Unown. [[User:MathijsP|MathijsP]] 13:30, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

in the games , the plates r described to have fell from the sky for an unknown reason , most probably fell from [[Hall of Origin]] but how,who ,what, why and when?--[[User:Nobody777|Nobody777]] 13:51, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
:Unknown, maybe we'll see in platinum or movie 12. [[User:MathijsP|MathijsP]] 15:17, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

there is something fishy about arceus's shiny form . if that shiny situation also goes with arceus that means that there is more than one .--[[User:Nobody777|Nobody777]] 07:37, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
:This is just speculation, there is no prove. [[User:MathijsP|MathijsP]] 07:39, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
::There are 36 Arceus. Each of them are different from the others. 18 are regular, 18 wear jewelry to make them look shiny. END.'''[[User:Optimus35|It's the <sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''10:10 22 Jun 2008'''''

what jewelery to make them shiny?--[[User:Nobody777|Nobody777]] 11:31, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
:Forget it. I requet removal of this section and the two sections that follow it. '''[[User:Optimus35|It's the <sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''13:38 28 Jun 2008'''''
::I support the idea that they fell from the Hall of origin. Like loose roof tiles lol [[User:Wikid|Wikid]] 16:45, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
the hall of origin had loose roof tiles i like that idea that should be in the hall of origin article *joke* but still cool [[User:Wikid|Wikid]]

== The ??? Plate ==

The ??? Plate exists, It is named mysterious plate by CodeJunkies, It may also be encountered in the underground as a Malfunction, people got this (like my brother) and attached it to ARCEUS, making the ??? type, no weaknesses are found on this type--[[User:M.vit|M.vit]] 00:10, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
:Believe me, people code-spelunk like there's no tomorrow...there isn't such thing.--[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 00:10, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

can M.vit at least tell how did his brother encounter such a plate, and how does it function with other Pokémon?and what happens to a Pokémon who knows the move [[curse]]

can somebody edit this article . It says that Arceus creted the Pokémon Universe,''Dragon trio'' and lake trio. Till now the dragon trio isn't officially confirmed. so whether I or somebody else should change the Dragon trio to the time-space duo: Dialga and Palkia.--[[User:Nobody777|Nobody777]] 13:56, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

well, seems that nobody is out of topic, BTW, i have seem to find this code in Code Junkies here it is
Mysterious Plate x999
94000130 fcff0000
b21c4d28 00000000
b0000004 00000000
00000890 03e70133
d2000000 00000000--[[User:M.vit|M.vit]] 16:55, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

:The plates all have different names on CodeJunkies which are the translated Japenese names. I believe the Mysterious Plate is actually the Mind Plate. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 17:13, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
::Your right, it is the mind plate. '''{{Colored link|:User:Origamiguy|ff8000|Lord}} of {{Colored link|:User_talk:Origamiguy|ff8000|Ori}}{{Colored link|Special:Contributions/Origamiguy|ff8000|gami}}''' 16:45, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== My Theory ==

I believe that the ??? mark plate will exsist tin the anime because I can almost 100% sure that there will be a movie on Arceus, I then think they will give away an Arceus that has the ??? Plate or It will be avaliable in Platnuim. ''I do not think that it is just so hackers can make the plate.'' - PokePal
:They'll give away Arceus in Japan next year, yes. But the presence of an item with it that is not programmed into DP is very, very unlikely. --[[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] |[[User talk:Fabu-Vinny|Talk Page]]| 15:07, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
I thought the ??? plate was programmed in DP! Look here: http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Unknown_type

:No plate exists. Hackers can manipulate Arceus to make it the ???-type, but I'm not sure how that would affect the game or the move Judgment. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 15:12, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
Could it soon exist? Where is the proof that it doesnt also? I found this about it http://www.serebii.net/diamondpearl/arceus.shtml
They don't know if it does-PokePal

:The sprite and coloration exists. But no plate is associated with it. It is unlikely that an item will be created because that would prevent Arceus from being traded to Diamond or Pearl as no item exists in those games' coding. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 15:19, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Sheesh thanxs for ruining my life and theory lol Thanx maybe it will just be in the anime!PokePal

:There is still a possibility that ???-type Arceus will exist, there just won't be a plate or any other type of held item that will change Arceus to that type. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 15:29, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Wait it is a real Item, that is only for hackers? PokePal

I have realized that Arceus doesn't need the ???-Plate to become ???-type. If anybody wants to know how,this is how: it might change type according to locatiion not ot item held just like Burmey and Wormadam that location is most probably the Torn World.--[[User:Nobody777|Nobody777]] 09:25, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

anybody wants to debate about my theory or at least comment with a lively one?--[[User:Nobody777|Nobody777]] 11:12, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

:It is a possibility, but why would the ???-type Arceus be available in D/P but not the alternate formes of Giratina and Shaymin? ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 13:25, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
::Because Sky Forme and Origin Forme aren't in D/P's programming.--[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 18:46, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

:::I know that, what I'm getting to is if ???-Arceus could only be obtained during Platinum, then why would its coding be in D/P and not the formes of the other two Pokémon? ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 20:06, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

:It's also worth noting that this would make sense: On the ???-type's page, it notes that offensive moves of the ???-type have been hacked in, and do almost no damage even with a power of 255. That would mean that, if Arceus were made a ???-type while in the Torn World, his signature attack, Judgment, would be rendered completely useless. [[User:SixthFlyingMan|SixthFlyingMan]] 05:53, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

The move Judjement shifts type according to the plate held, effectiveness and effcts are also shifted, so Judjements effects are also changed when ???-type plate is held, if existent.--[[User:Nobody777|Nobody777]] 13:53, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Talk:Giratina (Pokémon)/Archive 1

2008-07-12T06:37:18Z

Tannerbro: /* Fourth lake of Sinnoh */

== Error? ==

''"Giratina is the second dual-type Pokémon that has weaknesses to both of its own types. The other one is [[Nincada]]."''
"'''''The other one is Nincada'''''" - This is incorrect because Nincada is not weak to [[Bug]] or [[Ground]].
Which Pokemon is actually waek to '''both of its types'''? [[User:Tesh|Tesh]] 18:08, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
:None that I know of. The only types that are weak to themselves are ghost and dragon. I can't think of another combination with the same effect. --[[User:ElectAbuzzzz|ElectAbuzzzz]] 18:19, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
Maybe somebody did just make an error... I might as well remove it then. [[User:Tesh|Tesh]] 18:37, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
:If anything, I'd've thought it'd be {{p|Shedinja}}. Remember, to be weak to both of your own types means that one of the types could be weak to itself and the other type. The question is... what Pokémon could be weak to both of its own types? It doesn't seem like any of them could be. I mean, technically, {{p|Sableye}} and {{p|Spiritomb}} are weak to both {{t|Dark}} and {{t|Ghost}} on their Ghost-type, but their Dark-type covers both. So yeah, you're right. Until we get another Ghost/Dragon (which I hope is soon), we're not gonna have any Pokémon weak to their type twice. '''[[User:TTEchidna|T]][[User talk:TTEchidna|T]][[wp:Echidna|Echidna]]''' 05:56, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
:: I'm hoping to see a Psychic/Dark or Psychic/Ghost type Pokémon... think about it... [[User:Tesh|Tesh]] 21:45, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
I know this dosen't fit with previous topics, but i'm worried there might be an error in my game. Is giratina supposed to dissapear if you make it faint?
:... uh, yeah. That's what the legendaries do. If you take them out, you just blew your chance and you'd better not have saved. --[[User:Pie|Pie]] ~[[User talk:Pie|♪]][[Special:Contributions/Pie|♫]] 15:53, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

== Devil? ==

How is giratina the devil of poke'mon? It just lives on an opposite side of the world. Plus I don't think the developers are aware of the body part thing. It is also irrelevant to the subject.--[[user:arceus fan|arceus fan]] [[image:ArceusDP.png|35px]] 21:42, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
: I agree. If no one objects, I will take it out now.--[[User:Dual|Dual]] 06:50, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
:: Whoever changed it back, don't do it again. Giratina is NOT the Devil Pokemon. Get over it. --[[User:Dual|Dual]] 17:38, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

== Fourth lake of Sinnoh ==

Can we be so sure that Giratina is really part of the [[Dragon trio]]? It makes sense if you think everything through, but I find it interesting that Giratina is found in a cave near the "fourth lake of Sinnoh". Can it be assumed that Giratina has ''some'' association with the [[Lake trio]], or is that simply too much of a stretch? // [[User talk:Szayel Aporro|'''''SzayelAporroGranz''''']][[Image:Ani282MS.gif]] 23:28, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
:Arceus created Dialga/Palkia ''and'' the lake trio. It's not hard to see the link there. --[[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] [[User talk:Fabu-Vinny|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Fabu-Vinny|C]]-[[User:Fabu-Vinny/Sandbox|S]] 23:29, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
also they all have equal base stats just in a different order and the footprints all resemble crowns and it stars in a game along with them and they all rule over different universal planes time, space, and the reverse world but the reverse world could be a reality made by palkia so until they give the official word nobody knows

== H/W eight ==

The Height and Weight of Giratina's two forms are different. Should we place both of the weights and heights in the article (or in List of Articles by Weight or List of Articles by Height)?{{ani|486}}[[User:Pokemaniac102|<big>'''''Poke'''''</big>]][[User talk:Pokemaniac102|'''''Maniac''''']][[Special:Contributions/Pokemaniac102|<big>'''''102'''''</big>]]{{ani|492}} 18:39, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
:I think we should put somthing in like this,
Origin Form Height: Blah
Another Form Height: Blah
Origin Form Weight: Blah
Another Form Weight: Blah
(of course replacing blahs with data)(i don't know how to do it)[[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 00:21, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

== Opal trademark ==

I know we've had this conversation already on the Gold/Silver remakes talk page, but does anyone KNOW for certain that Nintendo trademarked the name Pokémon Opal? As far as I know, nobody's had any luck confirming the DuskGold/DawnSilver trademarks, so how do we know this one is for real, too? --[[User:Martonimos|Martonimos]] 07:17, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
:http://www.pokemonopal.com proves this pretty well. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]][[Image:Ani155MS.gif|Fire echy]]''' 07:24, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
::Definitely hard to argue with that. Thanks. [[User:Martonimos|Martonimos]] 23:54, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
:::Couldn't someone have just bought the domain name and have it redirect to Nintendo?--[[User:Ocean2292|Ocean2292]] 22:14, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

According to serbii, it is Pokémon PLatium, and Grantia is the Verson Mascot, I don't like where this is going, can someone block the pages: GRantinia, SHaymin, Regigiggas, Verson Mascot and anything to do with this Pokémon Platium thing, I don't want false rumors Spreading. I guess I'll put a link: http://serebii.net/index2.shtml --[[User:Quick Man|Quick Man]] 14:24, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

: Platinum? That's a surprise, since that has nohing to do with a Diamond or a Pearl. Then again, Crystal didn't match Gold and silver, so... [[User:Cassius335|- Cassius335]] 14:32, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

:: Platinum actually does make some sense, though. Platinum in Japanese can be プラティナム ''puratinamu'', or more commonly, プラチナ ''purachina'' (keep in mind ''chi'' and ''ti'' are essentially interchangeable, at least prounounciation/romanization wise). Now, both words contain ''ratina'', just like ギラティナ ''Giratina''. Pu'''ratina'''mu/Pu'''ratina''', Gi'''ratina'''... Makes sense to me, anyway. Maybe even more than ''girasol''. Either way, though, Platinum is just a rumor for now. The only problem is that http://www.pokemonplatinum.com doesn't ridirect to Nintendo like http://www.pokemonopal.com does, although I'm sure that will change if the rumors are true. We'll see what happens in the next CoroCoro... [[User:Homerowed|Homerowed]] 05:23, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

== !protectnao ==

Okay, with this ''unconfirmed'' Pokémon Platinum b/s being added to the page (Along with random "e"s added to everything), I request protection. <s>Else, I'll have to be adding my own fake stuff such as ''Lisae Franke Forme'' and the like. *runs*</s> [[User:Tina|Tina]][[Special:Contributions/Tina|☆]][[User talk:Tina|♫]] 17:03, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
: The "random "e"s" are being added because that's how the Official stuff for the 11th movie names the forms of Giratina; if they use "Origine" and "Forme", ''that's because it's supposed to be like that'' and we're not to question it. Otherwise we would use "Tears for Fears" instead of "Tears For Fears!", for example. - [[User:D-Wheel|D-Wheel]] 17:51, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
http://www.filb.de/content/scans/corocoro/2008-04/2.jpg
See it? '''ORIGINE FORME''', '''ANOTHER FORME'''. - [[User:D-Wheel|D-Wheel]] 17:51, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
:Okay, yeah. This is getting out of hand. Protect. [[User:Tina|Tina]][[Special:Contributions/Tina|☆]][[User talk:Tina|♫]] 17:55, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Protected, but the main reason actually WASN'T the excess E's. It was some bull**** unconfirmed report about a tie-in of its name to platnium based on unconfirmed rumors of the third to Diamond and Pearl being a Platnium (the chances of that being true are slim to none). --[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 18:03, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
:Darling, they're all possibilities! I bet you weren't there when the name was conceived. - [[User:D-Wheel|D-Wheel]] 18:34, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
::Eh, I just hope they don't keep those stupid E's in English. Otherwise we'll have Deoxys Normale Forme, Attacke Forme, Defence Forme, and Speede Forme. Yes, Defence with a C. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 02:25, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

:: Don't make me start the "sitting on Defence" jokes. [[User:Cassius335|- Cassius335]] 12:49, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
:::Oh? You have a problem with English spelling TTE? [[User:GlinnMgraw|Glinn]] [[User_talk:GlinnMgraw|Mgraw]]
Yeah, we really have to get rid of the extra e's. This is english after all. [[User:Noname|Noname]]
:Respectful disagreement. The [http://www.pokemon.co.jp/special/platinum/02.html Platinum website] uses "forme" as well, although it's reverted to "origin". Surely you've seen places that jokingly spell their names "ye olde shoppe," or something similar. --[[User:Martonimos|Martonimos]][[User talk:Martonimos|((Talk))]] 21:17, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
::But we don't know if NOA will go for the fake-Medieval feel. Until we get English confirmation, we should follow the precedent of Deoxys and use modern English. --[[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] |[[User talk:Fabu-Vinny|Talk Page]]| 21:20, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
:::All right, that makes sense. But I think we should definitely at least mention the 'Forme' stuff in the trivia sections of this page and others it's relevant to. --[[User:Martonimos|Martonimos]][[User talk:Martonimos|((Talk))]] 21:31, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
::::Didn't anyone notice that this magazine used Shaymin's U.S. name in it? Wonder why... --[[Special:Contributions/Kenji-girl|☆]][[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 07:46, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
:::::I'm trying to understand why people are having such a hard time accepting an official spelling. If the English game gets rid of the "ye olde" then we'll get rid of it then, but by "proper English" rationale we should be calling them "crabby" and "dugong". It's a stylized spelling like any ''Pokémon'' name.--[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 01:09, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

::::::I'm afraid there doesn't seem to be any solving this civilly or simply through discussion. Therefore, I grudgingly <s>announce</s> propose a poll. That's right, a poll. I'm not going to really get into this aside from offering my opinion, and of course voting, but this seems to be a popular topic for discussion, so this page should see a lot of action in the next few hours/days. I'll add the poll momentarily to the bottom of the page. --[[User:Politoed666|ニョロトノ]][[User talk:Politoed666|''666'']] 01:32, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
:::::::Oh boy. Check Deoxys on the official American Pokedex: http://www.pokemon.com/Pokedex/flash.asp I'm afraid that That solves the question. --[[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] |[[User talk:Fabu-Vinny|Talk Page]]| 01:36, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

::::::::Good. There we go, folks. Discussion closed. Now, could somebody please protect this? I see no reason to encourage certain users by allowing them to continue ignoring the facts. --[[User:Politoed666|ニョロトノ]][[User talk:Politoed666|''666'']] 01:42, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Shoot. That means we have to go around and edit all the {{p|Deoxys}} stuff so it says "forme," too. --[[User:Politoed666|ニョロトノ]][[User talk:Politoed666|''666'']] 01:51, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Does Uraptu work for Pokemon.com or something? Unless Deoxys is somehow involved in movie 11, I see no reason why they've done that. [[User:Cassius335|- Cassius335]] 10:04, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
:My guess is because two common words like "Another" and "Form" are difficult to trademark together. It's why Hasbro released a toy called "Battle Ravage," because it was too hard to get a trademark on just {{wp|Ravage (Transformers)|Ravage}}, since it's such a common word. So "Another Forme," "Sky Forme," and "Defense Forme" are easier to trademark than they would be if they were spelled correctly. --[[User:Martonimos|Martonimos]][[User talk:Martonimos|((Talk))]] 19:07, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
:: So "Deoxys Normal Form" would be harder to trademark than "Deoxys Normal Forme"? "Deoxys" itself aint exactly a dictionary word.

:: Besides, wouldn't those four ''already'' be trademarked by now? [[User:Cassius335|- Cassius335]] 21:16, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
:::Maybe, maybe not. Like I said, it was only a guess. But "Deoxys" almost certainly wouldn't be part of the trademark. The bulbanews article mentioned that "Land form" and "Sky form" (or, as it now almost surely is, "Land Forme" and "Sky Forme") were trademarked without any Pokémon name, which is why we have to guess as to who it is. Origin and Another Formes were similarly free-floating trademarks, without "Giratina" anywhere in the title.
:::ANYWAY, it doesn't matter now. The E is in officially. --[[User:Martonimos|Martonimos]][[User talk:Martonimos|((Talk))]] 22:06, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
::::Quick thought: Has anybody checked the Japanese site's Pokedex lately? I wonder if the Japnese names for Deoxys's forms have changed as well... [[User:Cassius335|- Cassius335]] 00:12, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
:::::Er, there's no English on the Japanese Pokédex.--[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 00:49, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
::::::I think he was asking about the Japanese names themselves. --[[User:Martonimos|Martonimos]][[User talk:Martonimos|((Talk))]] 01:42, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
:::::::...oh. He actually says that outright. Ahahaha. They use the obvious katakana spellings of "Normal," "Attack," "Defense," and "Speed," and the same katakana for "form(e)" as Giratina's (フォルム ''forumu'').--[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 03:43, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
::::::: So if that's their version, what's everyone else using as "form" (Burmy etc)? [[User:Cassius335|- Cassius335]] 10:51, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

== Name Origin ==

To Cassius335: How the hell did you get Guillotine,Giraffe from Giratina?? Girasol and platina are the only words to make Giratina. [[User:Force Fire|Force Fire]] 11:39, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

THANK YOU FORCE FIRE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:You know, if it was based on that word, then it should learn the [[Guillotine (move)|move]]...Posted by the '''[[User:Optimus35|<sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''11:45 16 May 2008'''''

I think we have a clear verdict here.[[User:Big Johnno|Pokémon Master]] 19:47 16 May 2008
:Hmm, Guillotine, Giratina. G<s>u</s>i'''ra'''<s>llo</s>tin<s>e</s>'''a'''. Posted by the '''[[User:Optimus35|<sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''11:50 16 May 2008'''''

:: Hmmmmm. I do see how guillotine is part of the name, But why giraffe? [[User:Force Fire|Force Fire]] 11:59, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
But why would Game Freak go through so much trouble of breaking down Guillotine and adding an 'a' to the end when the mascots of Diamond and Pearl are derived from there respective jewel, so obviously they would do similar with the third mascot hence Girasol and Platinum being in Giratina's name.[[User:Big Johnno|Pokémon Master]] 20:04 16 May 2008
: Yes, we get the idea, I agree, You agree, everyone agrees, Damnit! [[User:Force Fire|Force Fire]] 12:07, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
OK!I'm just making a point so that Cassius335 sees that he or she doesn't have to be perfect and that people get it wrong sometimes.[[User:Big Johnno|Pokémon Master]] 20:09 16 May 2008

Girasol (hence the 'gira' part) + Platina (hence the 'tina' part) = Giratina!
:And do sign off, <s>b@$+@rd</s>...{{u|Tina}} could be also an origin, according to you. Posted by the '''[[User:Optimus35|<sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''11:54 16 May 2008'''''

Sorry I forget sometimes.[[User:Big Johnno|Pokémon Master]] 19:56 16 May 2008
:You attacked me personally. Now tell me, who's better at wikicode? TTE! Posted by the '''[[User:Optimus35|<sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''12:11 16 May 2008'''''
:: You two knock it off! That is not the reason Bulbapedia is here for. [[User:Force Fire|Force Fire]] 12:14, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

No Comment.[[User:Big Johnno|Big Johnno]] 20:16 16 May 2008

So it's named after a Jewel and a Metal? I'm leaning more towards '''Gira'''ffe, myself (look at the shape of Another Form).

And frankly "Don't argue with me because I just figured it out" did not inspire confidence. Bulbapedia needs facts, not opinions.

Best to leave the four as was until someone an actually provide a proper source. [[User:Cassius335|- Cassius335]] 11:39, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

I think this should be Protected due to the edits....... [[User:Force Fire|Force Fire]] 09:46, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Next person to revert will be shot. Stop it, and we'll have a discussion here about it.
Personally I agree with Big Johnno, Giraffe has no place there. [[User:GlinnMgraw|Glinn]] [[User_talk:GlinnMgraw|Mgraw]] 10:11, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Oh? Where are the Girasols,then? All I'm asking for is something to back-up what otherwise is just Big Johnno's opinion, not a fact. [[User:Cassius335|- Cassius335]] 21:18, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
:'''Gira'''sol and Pla'''tina''' [[User:Force Fire|Force Fire]] 23:08, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
::OBVIOUSLY GIRATINA'S NAME ORIGIN IS FROM ME AND GIRASOL, BECAUSE I'M AWESOME.
::...I'm sorry. I needed to say something. [[User:Tina|Tina]][[Special:Contributions/Tina|☆]][[User talk:Tina|♫]] 23:10, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
::: Did anyone force you to? --[[User:Force Fire|Force Fire]] 23:11, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
::::She meant it as a way of need to acknowledge herself in the discussion•'''[[User:Pokemaniac102|P]][[User talk:Pokemaniac102|M]][[:Special:Contributions/Pokemaniac102|102]]''' 23:14, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
:::::Well yeah and my inner troll told me to do so anyway. lol. Besides. It was asking for it. [[User:Tina|Tina]][[Special:Contributions/Tina|☆]][[User talk:Tina|♫]] 23:15, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
::::::Dang you must be ugly•'''[[User:Pokemaniac102|P]][[User talk:Pokemaniac102|M]][[:Special:Contributions/Pokemaniac102|102]]''' 23:16, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
:::::::Girasol doesn't seem to fit. It did when we thought DPv3 would be called Opal, but now that it's being called Platinum, I doubt it. Giraffe is just way out of left field. The last time I checked, giraffes didn't have monstrous claws running up and down their necks. Guillotine... maybe, since Giratina seems to be associated with death. But like Optimus35 said, why doesn't it learn the move, then?
:::::::Also: Why hasn't this been protected yet? --[[User:Martonimos|Martonimos]][[User talk:Martonimos|((Talk))]] 23:26, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
:::::::: '''Gira'''sol...... --[[User:Force Fire|Force Fire]] 07:05, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::Guillotine also would not fit, unless you are grasping at straws. [[User:GlinnMgraw|Glinn]] [[User_talk:GlinnMgraw|Mgraw]] 08:29, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
::::::::::If you're speaking in strict phonetic terms, then no. Although there is the whole R vs. L thing in Japanese... anyway, I'm thinking more along the lines of fitting thematically. Girasol doesn't work, unless they were planning to call it Opal and changed it to Platinum at the last minute to throw off everyone who had figured it out (doubtful if the -tina part really comes from Platina). And Guillotine does fit ''sort of'', but not quite as well as I'd like. Anyway, I do think Big Johnno's ideas for this have more grounding than Cassius's. --[[User:Martonimos|Martonimos]][[User talk:Martonimos|((Talk))]] 08:57, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
::::::::::: Big Johnno doesn't ''have'' any grounding. He just gave us his opinion with nothing to back it up. [[User:Cassius335|- Cassius335]]

Ooo girare actually suits Giratina pretty good I mean like theres that saying the dead wander the earth forever or something simliar and Giratina is an undead Pokémon
: Glinn Mgraw said leave it alone--[[User:Force Fire|Force Fire]] 10:53, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
: That means YOU too Big Johnno... [[User:Force Fire|Force Fire]] 10:59, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
:: Yes, but he's saying "leave it alone" ''after'' siding with Big Johnno and eliminating two. I say leave all possibilities in play until we can eliminate them with facts. "Girare" is an interesting one though. [[User:Cassius335|- Cassius335]] 11:02, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

::Pulling this out of the text wall...

"Giraffe is just way out of left field. The last time I checked, giraffes didn't have monstrous claws running up and down their necks. Guillotine... maybe, since Giratina seems to be associated with death. But like Optimus35 said, why doesn't it learn the move, then?"

:: Giraffe's aren't supposed to have a second face on their tails either, and yet we have Girafarig. As for why Giratina doesn't learn Guillotine... no idea. Maybe the Japanese didn't make the connection. [[User:Cassius335|- Cassius335]] 11:09, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
:::Maybe it's because Giratina doesn't come from Guillotine? SHOCK HORROR. [[User:GlinnMgraw|Glinn]] [[User_talk:GlinnMgraw|Mgraw]] 11:29, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
:::: Giratina phonetically is (roughly) Gir-ah-teen-ah. Knock off the second 'ah' and what do you get?

:::: Not saying anything for definite though. [[User:Cassius335|- Cassius335]] 11:51, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
:::::Mind if I jump in here? No? Tough. Cassius dude, tell me something, because I'm totally confused here - how the ''hell'' does Giratina resemble, or even RELATE to, a freaking guillotine?! Or a giraffe?! It's blatantly obvious to even the dumbest of people that Giratina comes from ''gira''sol and pla''tina''. Go and pick on some other Pokémon. [[User:Double Dash|Cipher]] 13:27, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

::::: Try reading the page once in a while. As has already been pointed out, Girasol doesn't work any more (some people can't accept that the third game is '''not''' Pokémon Opal). Giraffe (I'm guessing) is because Giratina's a four-legged long necked creature (ok, six-legged, but still...). Guillotine as I mentioned ''in the post above yours'' is a phonetic soundalike.

::::: Neither of these are my theories, I'm just trying to stop people from jumping to conclusions without a shred of proof. Which, last I checked, we're not supposed to do. [[User:Cassius335|- Cassius335]] 16:45, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
::::::Yet you're doing the same thing. These ideas may not be yours, but your constantly re-adding them is the same as what Big Johnno's doing. I suggest we just put down ''all'' the ideas we've had so far and figure this out without an edit war going on. --[[User:Martonimos|Martonimos]][[User talk:Martonimos|((Talk))]] 21:31, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

::::::: Um... he's taking way, I'm restoring them. That's not quite the same thing.

::::::: And what's currently on the page ''is'' all of the idea's so far. That was kind of the point. [[User:Cassius335|- Cassius335]] 21:46, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Aren't '''all''' name origins of Pokémon speculation and opinion? As far as I know, Nintendo has '''never''' came out and said, "This is where we got the name." And, while most are obvious, some are not. Just look at that section on {{P|Corphish}}. It's highly doubtful that its name comes from an obscure fishing term from the 1600s, but it's still mentioned on the page. I see no harm in keeping all possibilities, no matter how unlikely. [[User:Zurqoxn|Zurqoxn]] 22:24, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
:You must draw a line in the sand at some point. [[User:GlinnMgraw|Glinn]] [[User_talk:GlinnMgraw|Mgraw]] 07:37, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
::Did anyone mention girasol or something like that? Because it says girasol along with what you guys said earlier. Oh, and by the way? DEFINITELY NOT GIRAFFE. I'm sorry, it just doesn't make any sense at all. Really, it doesn't. Really. [[User:ZanderX|Zander]] 06:51, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== Origin Forme Picture ==

Wouldn't it make more sense to have Giratina's origin forme art from Platinum, then the art from the anime?

Deoxys uses all of his Sugimori art on his page, and none of the other Pokémon have their anime art on their pages (besides screenshots).

So why was the other art gotten rid of from the page? [[User:Pokemega32|Pokemega32]] 19:01, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
: There's no point having two pictures of the same thing. --[[User:Force Fire|Force Fire]] 23:16, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
::He was asking why we got rid of the Sugimori art and kept the anime art instead of the other way around, not why we didn't keep both. At any rate, I changed it after seeing his comment, so now we have the Sugimori art alone. --[[User:Martonimos|Martonimos]][[User talk:Martonimos|((Talk))]] 23:28, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
:::where did we get the shiny origine sprite? '''[[:User:Origamiguy|OrigamiGuy]]-[[:User_talk:Origamiguy|Talk]]-[[:Special:Contributions/Origamiguy|Contribs]]-[[:User_talk:Origamiguy/Mudkipz|Mudkipz]]''' 17:27, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
::::Someone recoloured the normal sprite. --[[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] |[[User talk:Fabu-Vinny|Talk Page]]| 17:40, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
:::::and so it'll be changed again when the official sprite is released i presume. '''[[:User:Origamiguy|OrigamiGuy]]-[[:User_talk:Origamiguy|Talk]]-[[:Special:Contributions/Origamiguy|Contribs]]-[[:User_talk:Origamiguy/Mudkipz|Mudkipz]]''' 17:46, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
::::::If there's any real difference. Origin Forme Giratina has the same colors as Another Forme Giratina, so why would the shiny ones differ? It's the same as Deoxys. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 07:44, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
:::::::Because the real-deal is always superior in quality to the recolor.--[[User:Xparasite9|Xparasite9]] 03:54, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

== Protection request ==

A lot of people have making changes and undoing changes. I say we protect it for a while. --[[Special:Contributions/Kenji-girl|☆]][[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 20:43, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
:You freakin want everything protected. But for this article, yea, me too•'''[[User:Pokemaniac102|Poke]][[User talk:Pokemaniac102|maniac]]102''' 21:19, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

== Shiny is near-perfect negative? ==

The article says that the shiny sprite is a near-perfect negative of the normal sprite.
I ask you, does the following look like the statement is true? the only thing that matches up are the red (blue) bands and wing-horns.
 
[[{{ns:6}}:Not-reverse-colors.PNG|Shiny Giratina is not a negative]]--[[User:Xparasite9|Xparasite9]] 03:47, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
:I think what was really meant was "nearly opposite in color", regular has gold, shiny has silver, regular has silver, shiny has gold, regular has red, shiny has blue. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 05:00, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

== Lack of Land/Lowered Level ==

the lowered level seems to make sense because of the fact that he had just entered the dimension, which would theoretically weaken him. the lack of land seems to be either giratina floating in the air, a reflection of the fact that there is no land in the reverse world, or that he is still in the teleportation rift.

[[User:Arutoa|Arutoa]] 21:12, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

== Tutor Moves ==

is there a platinum standard template that could be used for Giratina's tutored move, Draco Meteor?
[[User:Meman140|meman140]] 01:29, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
:Yes. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 05:32, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
:Done and done. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 06:01, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. [[User:Meman140|meman140]] 00:44, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

== Art in the infobox ==

I know with Deoxys we do the "standard forme" thing... but we have Wormadam with all three of her coats, same with Burmy, and Shellos and Gastrodon in both West and East Sea variations. I know that's how the Sugimori art came, but why the heck not combine the images into one, then put it in the infobox? '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 17:42, 10 July 2008 (UTC)