Bulbapedia - User contributions [en]

Bulbapedia talk:Project SpriteDex

2012-10-08T08:12:12Z

Stag019: /* A few questions before I begin the task I've assigned myself */ new section

== Transparency! ==

It is imperative that any sprites uploaded to the Archives (and subsequently edited into Bulbapedia) are made tarnsparent. Transparency means that there is no white block around the image; the image's background automatically becomes whatever color is behind it. Single-color transparency and Alpha channel transparency are simple functions easily accessed on programs such as GIMP and Jasc Paint Shop. [[User:LordArceus|LordArceus]] 18:07, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
:...and people should also remember that when they make the sprites transparent, ''that does not mean only the outer part''. I don't remember if all sprites are OK when it comes to Bulbapedia, but many tend to forget the white background not connected to the image edges. Also, Gen III sprites of {{p|Shedinja}} must have an intact crescent thingie; it is often broken since one of the used colors is white. UltimateSephiroth ([[User:UltimateSephiroth|user]] · [[User talk:UltimateSephiroth|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/UltimateSephiroth|contrib]]) 18:15, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
:::On that note: when setting transparency, find the value for "Tolerance" and set it to 0. This will cause the program to turn colors with ''exactly'' the same RGB values as the color you selected transparent. If the tolerance is high, the program may include some of the sprite in its transparency. [[User:LordArceus|LordArceus]] 18:28, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
::::A bit late, I know, but I was wondering if I should go through the Pokemon pages and remove the white backgrounds from the sprites. If so, what should I do for something like [[Mankey_(Pokémon)#Sprites|Mankey's sprites]], which only take up the least space possible, and are smaller than some of the [[Vaporeon_(Pokémon)#Sprites|other sprites]]? Should I expand them to fill the same area? If so, how should I align them (eg. four pixels from the left and bottom edges, like Vaporeon, or center the sprite)? '''Goldenpoke[[User:Goldenrod111|1]][[User_talk:Goldenpoke111|1]][[Special:Contributions/Goldenpoke111|1]]''' 18:52, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
:::::Never mind, I found the "[[User:UltimateSephiroth/Sprites|This page]]" link in the "'''Goals'''" section. '''Goldenpoke[[User:Goldenrod111|1]][[User_talk:Goldenpoke111|1]][[Special:Contributions/Goldenpoke111|1]]''' 23:00, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

== Help ==

The only sprites I can't find in a usable resource are Emerald shiny animations. Does anyone know a resource site with these animations?
Actually, I can't find the Japanese Red Version sprites either. Anybody? [[User:LordArceus|'''Lord''']][[User talk:LordArceus|'''Arceus''']] 21:45, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
:(sorry, not shiny animations! ignore that)
:Also, I think I may add myself to this project.. But I have a problem as well. I was trying to reupload a sprite because I fixed the transparency issue.. but It wouldn't let me upload it? A weird error comes up. [[User:Snowrunt|[[User:Snowrunt|Snowrunt]] [[User talk:Snowrunt|♥]] [[Special:Contributions/Snowrunt|♥]]]] 19:28, 17 December 2008 (UTC)[[User:Snowrunt]]
::Your signiture is scary. Please make sure that all the coding is correct and that the raw signiture box is checked in your preferences (I think that's the problem). Anyway, is the error you're talking about "another version of this image exists?" If so, just choose to upload anyway. If that isn't what it is, take a screenshot or something so I can see what you mean. [[User:LordArceus|'''Lord''']][[User talk:LordArceus|'''Arc''']][[Special:Contributions/LordArceus|'''eus''']] 14:22, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

== Blurriness Issue ==

I've worked on 3 sprites for [[Gligar_(Pokémon)#Sprites|Gligar]]- the shiny backsprite, which was done completely on my part, and appears perfectly. Then there's the non-shiny front and back sprites- originally uploaded by someone else, I transparified them and resized them to specifications, and while they appear fine on their archive pages, they are stretched and blurry on Gligar's sprite chart. What is the cause of this, and how can I remedy this? I thought that I could help SpriteDex with screen capturing and Photoshop, but it seems to be backfiring with me finding a problem at every corner. -[[User:Stephen93|Stephen93]] 21:24, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
:It's either the slow cache at Bulbapedia or it's your own browser cache. If you use Firefox, hold Shift key down and click the refresh button (or press Ctrl-F5) whenever you come across a blurry sprite. I'd remember it was Ctrl + click on the refresh button in IE, but I'm not sure. '''UltimateSephiroth''' ([[User:UltimateSephiroth|about me]] · [[User talk:UltimateSephiroth|chat]] · [[Special:Contributions/UltimateSephiroth|edits]]) 21:48, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

== Ranger sprites ==

Although I know that it's posible to see them from many angles, perhaps we should get the sprites from their Browser entries?--[[User:MisterE13|Mister]][[User talk:MisterE13|'''E''']][[Special:Contributions/MisterE13|13]] 03:31, 27 December 2008 (UTC)
:Absolutely. If you find any good resource for Ranger and/or Shadows of Almia, post it under the External Links/Resources. If we have sprites from the Pinball games, we should have sprites from the Ranger games. [[User:LordArceus|'''Lord''']][[User talk:LordArceus|'''Arc''']][[Special:Contributions/LordArceus|'''eus''']] 18:24, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

== I have some experience with game image extraction ==

And I mean directly from the game files. Provided the files aren't encrypted or compressed. I can provide my own illegal copyright infringement. I'm unreliable though (and I mean I will spontaneously forget everything about it, and it would be hard to get me back on track). If you care to annoy me by instant messenger, just try my obvious screen names for A/M/Y (Hotmail, as a hint for the middle one).

It will be infinitely easier than trying to teach myself decompression algorithms using the game's assembly code (which I'm doing for one game right now). --[[User:Raijinili|Raijinili]] 05:53, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
:If ever we absolutely have to, then maybe. But the problem with Bulbapedia's sprites is not that {{tt|we can't find them online|Emerald shiny animations :p}}, it's just that people upload them the wrong size, w/o transparency, etc. [[User:LordArceus|'''Lord''']][[User talk:LordArceus|'''Arc''']][[Special:Contributions/LordArceus|'''eus''']] 02:23, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

== Joining ==

I've recently been adding sprites, and I forgot to join here. How do I join?--[[User:Pokelova|''Poke'']][[User talk:Pokelova|<big>lova</big>]] 03:43, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
:[[User talk:Pokelova#Joining|Here...]] [[User:LordArceus|'''Lord''']][[User talk:LordArceus|'''Arc''']][[Special:Contributions/LordArceus|'''eus''']] 02:29, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

==TCG Sprites==
I guess I should bring this up here... Uploaded some TCG 1 sprites to the archive. Check them out [http://archives.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Special:Contributions/Kusanagi87| here] and [http://archives.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Category:Pokémon_Trading_Card_Game_GB_sprites| here]. It's about half of the booster packs and a few of the missing character portraits. Most are tagged. Don't know if you guys have specifications, but I categorized them anyways. I'll put the other half soon. One last thing... If the bulleted chart thing on the category page disagrees with you, try to keep them on for a while, because it aids with the organization. Thanks. [[User:Kusanagi87|Kusanagi87]] 16:44, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
:Finished the TCG 1 card sprites.

== Uploaded Animated Lucas & Dawn ==

I don't know if this how accurate it is. I think the head is supposed to be more stationary.
[[Image:Lucas Platinum Introduction.gif]]
[[Image:Dawn Platinum Introduction.gif]]
I'll fix that soon. [[User:Kusanagi87|Kusanagi87]] 00:23, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

== New Idea ==

Can we get the small player image? As in when the regular-sized character transforms to the mini sprite...I have an idea in mind regarding the FAME Checker. [[User:Ht14|'''''ht''''']][[User talk:Ht14|''14'']] 01:27, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

== HGSS Lugia Sprite ==

I got a HGSS lugia sprite that I would like to post here:

Could I maybe add that to Lugias page or could someone else do it?--[[User:Mclena45|Mclena45]] 16:57, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

== HGSS Sprites ==

Hey guys I got a HGSS Kanto + Johto Sprite Sheet here it is:

I don't know where to put it :P ----- [[User:YronK9|YronK9]] 15:48, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

== Overworld Sprites ==

Should we add Overworld sprites for HG SS?WeavilePwns 22:11, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

== ...What?...I bet you think I'm an idiot. ==

How do you guys get the sprites? Do you guys take direct screenshots, use an emulator, hand-draw them, or what?--[[User:Valorum27|Valorum27]] 02:57, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

:Well, in an attempt to increase my standing as a Bulbapedia administrator so I can survive the probation I'm on and pass the review involved, I have to confess my biggest sin of my Bulbapedia career. Many of our HeartGold/SoulSilver sprites, I swiped them from Veekun. Yep, there wasn't really that much blood, sweat, and tears involved outside of the work actually done by Veekun.

:I really don't know what the methods Veekun uses are, however...--[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 03:02, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

:: ...really must add myself to that list. same website. we got to thank them at the very least [[User:Malake256|Malake256]] 04:29, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

:::...a bit late to this, but at least the animated sprites we currently have are mostly copied frame-by-frame with the help of an emulator, like a lot of other stuff too. '''UltimateSephiroth''' ([[User:UltimateSephiroth|about me]] · [[User talk:UltimateSephiroth|chat]] · [[Special:Contributions/UltimateSephiroth|edits]]) 10:49, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

== sprite ==

i am not a participatent of the project, but i want to feedback that not all sprites are DIRECTLY in the center. some of the sprites that are uploaded are directly in the center, which should not be right. if not they will be floating in the game. -[[User:Pokeant|Pokeant]] 03:59, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

== New Member ==
Can I join? I can help with the animated BW sprites, and I can fix other sprites.
--- [[user:Conanshinichi|Conanshinichi]], A Detective Conan fan 17:07, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

== Walking Sprites ==

This is probably not top priority, but should we compile walking sprites from HeartGold/SoulSilver?{{unsigned|Tk3141}}
:There is already a category for them [http://archives.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Category:Overworld_sprites here], although there seem to be a lot missing in Gen IV if you want to add there.--[[User:Chalkwriter|Chalk]][[User talk:Chalkwriter|writer]] 20:09, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

== Wrong Image Format ==

I'm not a member of the project, but I have no idea where to put this, but I've noticed your supposed animated Black and White are actually ever going to be animated under a png image format. png image format doesn't support animated images, plus I'm not sure why they weren't under a gif image format similar to the Crystal and Emerald sprites to begin with, but regardless, you claim that animated png images don't work under certain browsers, but they don't work under any browser. I'm really sorry for saying this, but honestly, it really needed to be said. Oh, and this should also go for other supposed animated png image files as well. And again, I'm sorry, but something needed to be said. [[User:Sinjoh|Sinjoh]] ([[User talk:Sinjoh|talk]]) 19:44, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
:I'm not sure why you think .apngs don't work on any browser. I just checked on Firefox, which isn't even a browser I normally use, and they work fine, so that part is true. Anyways, .apngs are the standard across the site, so this isn't really the best place to take up this problem. A better place would be the Bulbawiki forum, or by messaging someone who is part of the editorial board. --[[User:Funktastic~!|It's Funktastic~!]] ([[User talk:Funktastic~!|talk]]) 20:12, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

== A few questions before I begin the task I've assigned myself ==

As I've stated when I added myself to the project list, I intend to fix all sprites from the first two generations, by directly ripping from the ROM itself rather than relying on external resources. However, I have some questions before I can proceed.

1. What is the correct orientation of sprites from Generation I? Should they all face the viewer, or should they be in their pose they would be if you encountered them in the wild? While this is usually the same way, certain sprites, like Pinsir and Tauros from Red/Blue, actually face away from the player when found in the wild.

2. What is the correct palette to use? This question covers pretty much every sprite from Generation I. The Japanese Red and Green versions Super Gameboy palettes are nearly identical, except that Red uses a very light pinkish color as it's brightest (neither use pure white), where as Green uses a very light greenish color. Thankfully, Japanese Blue/International Red/Blue all use the same pinkish color. Yellow version (except the Japanese versions), on the other hand, has both a Super Gameboy palette and a Gameboy color palette (which are nearly identical except in brightness). And finally, which of these four palettes should be applied to the back sprites?

3. How does the conversion from 15-bit color to 24-bit color go? For example, the "very light pinkish" color I talked about before is defined as "R 31/31, G 29/31, B 31/31". Should we:
* 1. Directly shift on 3 empty bits (or multiply each by 8 for people who don't understand bitshifts). That would result in "R 248/255, G 232/255, B 248/255".
* 2. Add one, do the shifting (or multiplying), then subtract one. This has the added advantage of preserving percentage correctly (15/31 would turn into 127/255 instead of 120/255, where 15/31 and 127/255 are usually considered 50%). That would result in "R 255/255, G 239/255, B 255/255".

4. How do I determine the arbitrary transparency requirement with any sort of degree of consistency? Most of these are fairly easy. Others, like Diglett and Gastly (R/B) are fairly straightforward but extremely time consuming (although the neither of them here now actually make all the pixels transparent that I would have thought). But some, like Moltres (R/G), don't have any sort of standardization rules that I could think of to follow. I could probably argue for an eternity whether the pixels at 42, 25 and 42, 26 should or shouldn't be transparent or not, and anyone who gets the concept could easily argue the opposite. What am I to do in this situation?

For now, because of the amount of questions I have on just Generation I, I'm going to only focus on that before I start work on Generation II. Hopefully, if someone can shed some light on these, I can begin the process of ripping and properly converting these.

Thanks. [[User:Stag019|Stag019]] ([[User talk:Stag019|talk]]) 08:12, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

Bulbapedia:Project SpriteDex

2012-10-08T06:25:16Z

Stag019:

{| style="width: 100%; border: 3px solid #{{gold color dark}}; background-color: #{{gold color}}; -moz-border-radius: 2em;"
|-
|{{Project leader|{{u|UltimateSephiroth}}}}
| style="width: 100px;" | [[Image:Project SpriteDex logo.png|right|100px]]
|-
| colspan="2" style="background-color: #{{gold color light}}; border: 3px solid #{{gold color}}; -moz-border-radius: 2em; padding-top: 1em; padding-bottom: 1em;" |
{| style="float: right;"
| __TOC__
|}
Some Bulbapedia members have formed a [[Bulbapedia:Project|project]] to better organize efforts pertaining to sprites on Bulbapedia. If you would like to help, please inquire on the talk page or the [http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/forumdisplay.php?f=195 Bulbapedia forum]. Please also read the [[Bulbapedia:Project SpriteDex/To-do list|to-do list]].

==Project SpriteDex==
===Scope and aims===
Project SpriteDex aims to complete and perfect Bulbapedia's sprite library. In short, any links where images should be must be replaced with the proper image, and any sprites with white backgrounds must be made transparent. Whenever the next generation of Pokémon games is released, the project will focus its attention on the new sprites.

Project SpriteDex also aims to get animated sprites for games this applies to; currently the main series games with animated Pokémon sprites are Pokémon Crystal, Emerald, Diamond, Pearl, Platinum, HeartGold and SoulSilver Versions. While GIF is currently used for the Crystal and Emerald sprites, eventually the support for this old format will be dropped in favor of animated PNG images.

One more aspect of Project SpriteDex is to get every sprite in Bulbagarden Archives to be correctly categorized. There are still many sprites without the correct templates added to their pages.

===Participants===
To join the project, simply add your name to the bottom of this list:

* '''{{u|UltimateSephiroth}} {{tt|(Hover to see the merits)|Jap RG sprite flipping, Y transparency/flipping, G transparency/size fixing and RS transparency/size fixing}}''' - Project Leader
* {{u|LordArceus}} - I do {{tt|this stuff|For all games: Transparency fixes, flips, providing sprites in place of links, size fixes}}... - Project founder
* {{u|Kogoro}} - Well, since I've already fixed a few transparency issues, I guess I should add myself.
* {{u|Chocolate}} - Some of the [[Generation I|Gen. I]] sprites we have are all wrong. All sprites should face the viewer, and most of the Gen. I sprites fail to do that. I fixed a lot of them in early October, and I want to help with the rest.
* {{u|ShinjiLover}}
* {{u|jigglyppuff8}} - Adding missing sprites.
* {{u|Stephen93}} - Don't worry, I finally have it downpat! Helping with resizes and transparencies from Generations I and II, as well as uploading Gen. II sprites that are missing altogether.
* {{u|LilRed}}
* {{u|Tavisource}}-Who ever took me off of this list? I worked really hard uploading the Platinum sprites.
* {{u|Alec9}}-Hi.
* {{u|Lightlowemon}} - I can help every now and again.
* {{u|Baynium}}
* {{u|Kenji-girl}} - Uploaded most of the FireRed Leaf Green sprites.
*{{u|DAWN FAN}}-Helpfull
*{{u|Pokelova}} - I've already uploaded many sprites. So I decided to join.
* {{u|Blake}} - I am currently making sprites Transparent. Photoshop ftw.
* {{u|Kusanagi87}} - Meh. Sure, Wynaut? Working on TCG 1 card sprites, etc.
* {{u|The Dark Fiddler}} - I can upload screencaps of non-animated pre-gen IV sprites, but someone else will need to edit them out.
* {{u|Mclena45}} - I can upload most sprites. I'm an experienced spriter and can get a lot.
* {{u|Roryrules123}} - I can find sprites to do.
* {{u|YukitoOoO}} - I've never done this, but I'd really love to help!! {{tt|;)|this means, I'm gonna need some help, somebody to explain me, ALL I know is where and how to find emerald shiny sprites!}}
* {{u|Galladeon}} - {{tt|I do a lot of <s>shit</s> stuff.|I transparented about half the accessory sprites with Pixen, and am working on transparenting Crystal sprites. Next will be uploading needed sprites if I can find them.}}
* {{u|Craig*}} - I Have never made a sprite,I want to help a make this project TOP!
* {{u|Batista}} - I can provide missing and transparent sprites.
* {{u|Usyflad10}} - making sprites transparent.
* {{u|Eeveelution Lilly}} - I'll help when I can.
* {{u|YronK9}} - Experienced Spriter. I already uploaded the [[HGSS]] [[Johto]] & [[Kanto]] Sprite Sheet.
* [[User:Blaziken=Tahu|Blaziken=Tahu]] - Specializes in the anaylsis of Shiny Sprites vs. Normal colored Sprites.
* {{u|Gallevoir}}
* {{u|Smoochum}} - will do what i can
* {{u|THEbrianstararan}} - i can tell the diffrence between gender VERY EASILY
* {{u|Supernicknobros}} - I help with adding transparency. :)
* {{u|Nin10du27027}} - I can Edit picture to the right size and flip it and make it transparent
* {{u|Malake256}} - I'll help find and update older sprites
* {{u|CH3ATER}} - I will find/upload any missing sprites that I can.
* {{u|Jello}} - Currently uploading the animated overworld sprites, have fixed up several sprites in the past.
* {{u|duardognn}}
* {{u|Piplupwater}} - Try Adding New Generation V Sprites.
* {{u|050294}} - I used to be on the Custom Sprite project, so I decided to join this project. I have programs to make transparent backgrounds and keep sprites in their original high quality. I am currently going to upload missing sprites.
* {{u|Snowrunt}} - Experienced spriter, has already uploaded missing sprites (and will continue), and can fix transparency issues.
* {{u|ShadowDusknoir}}
* {{u|Tailzfoxy96}} - Making pixel-by-pixel copies of Serebii's sprites, to avoid copyright issues. It's made by me, so it counts. >:)
* {{u|NismoX}} - I can basically {{tt|fix|Flipping, transparentizing, resizing, etc.}} any non-animated sprite.
* {{u|dude22072}} - i want to help get the DPPT/HGSS sprites animated for once
* {{u|pika3323}} - I just want to help with something!
* {{u|Desukaan563}} - I want to get more BW animated sprites in the database
* {{u|AdventureComicCreator}} - I would help to get BW animated sprites for all pokemon and post them on Bulbapedia.
* {{u|Chalkwriter}} - After discovering I had the tools for the job, {{tt|I can animate some DP sprites|I can even transparentize them!}}.
* {{u|CharmanderKitten}} - {{tt|I have BW pictures i can upload here.|Also, they are animated}}
* {{u|Soulsilverdiamond96}}
* {{u|MissingNO}} - I can {{tt|edit|Animate, Tranparentize, Flip, Recolour, Copy, Whatever.}} any sprites that need it.
* {{u|tmazzy}} - shiny sprites. bothe animated and non-animated
* {{u|Pikachu9000}} - I can find very high quality animated Menusprites and Battlesprites of all Pokémon, including Missingno, {{tt|as long as the site I get them from isn't disabled.|Recently, I had to change my source site because the original was disabled.}} Although, I cannot correct, change, or edit any discolorations due to the applications that I have on the computers that I use most frequently (Only MS Paint).
* {{u|Tk3141}} - I'm not sure what I can do, but I'll help where I can.
* {{u|Vuvuzela2010}} - I can make sprites transparent. The Colosseum sprite and XD sprite catalogue is about halfway complete, so I'll try to complete it in the coming months whenever I have time. I will also see if I can upload animated sprites for BW, ect., and I would help convert the Crystal sprites to PNG if needed.
* {{u|ArceusofTime}} I shall try my best on this project★
* {{u|G50}}
* {{u|Stag019}} I intend to fix all sprites from the first two generations, by directly ripping from the ROM itself rather than relying on external resources.

===Structure===
Much of this project's work will involve the [[a:Main Page|Bulbagarden Archives]]. Please make sure you know how to upload and replace images properly before doing so.

====Regular Pokémon sprites====
The correct format to categorize regular Pokémon sprites (the ones starting with "Spr") is as follows:
<nowiki>==Summary==
{{gamesprite|Dex|Name|Sprite type|Game(s)|The additional S for "versions", if applies}}
==Licensing:==
{{i-Fairuse-sprite-game}}</nowiki>
* Dex is the National Pokédex number for the Pokémon.
* Name is the English name for the Pokémon, or if the English name of the Pokémon is not known yet, this is the name the Pokémon article at Bulbapedia has.
* Sprite type tells what kind of sprite it is. There are several different types, which are as follows:
** all - This one goes for every regular sprite of Generations I to III, and for those regular sprites that apply to both genders in Generation IV.
** shiny - This is for sprites of {{shiny}} sprites with no gender differences.
** male - This is for Generation IV sprites' male versions.
** shiny male - The above one with shininess.
** female - The same as above, only with female versions.
** shiny female - You can guess this one.
* Game(s) are the versions the sprite is from, for example "Platinum" or "FireRed and LeafGreen".
* Add an S to the last parameter, if you put paired games to the Game(s) part. Otherwise you may omit the last parameter.

If the sprite is used in multiple games (counting paired games as one game), put one copy of the gamesprite template for each of the games.

If the sprite is animated PNG, add the <tt><nowiki>{{anipng}}</nowiki></tt> template to the description.

====Goals====
# To provide sprites of every Pokémon for every [[Generation]]
# To change all nontransparent sprites to transparent
# To make sure each sprite is correct in terms of size, orientation, etc.

[[User:UltimateSephiroth/Sprites|This page]] can be used to check which ones are missing, incorrect, or non-transparent.
WARNING! The link above contains thousands of images, so make sure your browser can handle the loading.

====Other templates====
* {{Template|Project SpriteDex notice}} - This template may be posted when sprite work is completed on an article, but it is not required.
{{Project SpriteDex notice}}

* {{Template|User Project SpriteDex}} - This template is for project participants to place in their user profile.
{{User Project SpriteDex}}
 

===Completed Work===
See how the current task on our [[Bulbapedia:Project SpriteDex/To-do list|to-do list]] is shaping up [[Bulbapedia:Project SpriteDex/Completed work|here]].

==Other projects==
===Parent project===
* {{bp|Project Games}}

===Subprojects===
This project currently has no subprojects.

===Related projects===
* {{bp|Project Custom Sprite}} (defunct)

==External Links/Resources==
* [http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/sprites.html Pokémon Elite 2000] (note: their Generation II sprites are not of the correct size)
|}

[[Category:Bulbapedia projects|S]]

Talk:List of unused Pokémon and character designs/Archive 1

2012-07-30T19:42:57Z

Stag019: /* Cries */ new section

== Name ==

This page needs to be renamed, to something like "Unused Artwork" or "Unused Concept Art", due to the fact that somethings are not Pokémon. Also, am I the only one who sees a massive relation between {{p|Raichu}} and Honouguma, {{p|Cyndaquil}}? Nah it looks to me to be more of a possible Raichu evolution. - [[User:Ferret|Ferret]] 19:32, 19 Jul 2005 (UTC)

> Why would Raichu evolve into a Pokemon without "chu" in it's name, who according to it's own name is a Fire-type? {{unsigned|Zeta}}

They were trying something different maybe? It just seems to bear an amazing resemblance. - [[User:Ferret|Ferret]]

Did you guys think it was a pre-version of Teddiursa, but maybe scrapped when it was too related to Raichu. It is a bear, and a bear pokemon was released in Johto.
[[User:Firemaker|Firemaker]]

== Article ==

So, Bulbapedia has an article about Unreleased Pokémon, huh? Now all we need is an article on ''Fake'' Pokémon. - [[User:Pokencyclopedia|Pokencyclopedia]]

== Validity issues ==

I've always found those sketches rather dubious now that I think about it. Where did they originally come from? Is there any proof at all that they are original concept art? - [[User:Ferret|Ferret]] 22:40, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

: Excellent question. However, I do know I remember seeing them way back then on PokéFor (note the fine print on the images) around the release of G/S. - [[User:Zhen Lin|振霖]][[User talk:Zhen Lin|T]] 02:19, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

:The ones that were obviously scanned look like Sugimori's style, especially the trainers. So, at the very least, "Unnamed Mammal" and "Unnamed Turtle" are real. One can even see the turtle with Tyranitar in the Male Trainer art. I don't know what those other rough sketches are, though. They aren't Sugimori. --[[User:Argy|Argy]] 05:04, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

== Commentary issues ==

'''Unnamed mammal'''

''The Unnamed mammal has been said to resemble Hitmontop or Meowth''
:Really? I definately see some {{p|Wigglytuff}} in there! [[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] 17:20, 26 November 2005 (CST)
::This is gonna sound weird, but something about the design reminds me of {{p|Snubbull}}. It's the blue collar on a pink creature thing, I think. --[[User:Pie|Pie]] ~[[User talk:Pie|♪]][[Special:Contributions/Pie|♫]] 14:58, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

'''Kurusu'''

''This creature resembles a seal, but doesn't seem to have much relation to any Pokémon as of yet''
: [[Image:Alpha kurusu.png]][[Image:086Seel.png|200px]]
: --[[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] 14:52, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

'''Unnamed turtle'''

''A turtle Pokémon that was never released. It's possible it was later heavily reworked into Torkoal.''
:Am I the only one who sees Swampert's head in there? --[[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] 14:52, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

== Pictures ==

What website are those pictures from?--[[User:Ambipom|Ambipom]]--

== Other names and additional info ==

Back when Gold and Silver were about to come out, i remember there was an article in Gamepro magazine about the Japanese Gold and Silver that had a LOOONG list of beta Japanese names for the new pokemon, and the same article also had a few temporary English names. The ones I remember: Artibull instead of Smeargle and Xoqo instead of Xatu. Only problem is, that article is long gone. Can anyone help out?
--[[User: Jurgen200|Jurgen200]]--

Check out this list...

*152 Chikorita Chicolita
*153 Bayleef Beifiru
*154 Meganium Meganiumi
*155 Cyndaquil Hinoarashi
*156 Quilava Magumarashi
*157 Typhlosion Bakufun
*158 Totodile Waninoko
*159 Croconaw Arigeitsu
*160 Feraligatr Odairu
*161 Sentret Otachi
*162 Furret Ootachi
*163 Hoothoot Hoho
*164 Noctowl Yorunozuku
*165 Ledyba Rediba
*166 Ledian Redeian
*167 Spinarak Itomaru
*168 Araidos Araidosu
*169 Kurobat Kuroba
*170 Chinchou Chonchi
*171 Lanturn Rantan
*172 Pichu Pichu
*173 Cleffa Pi
*174 Igglybuff Pupurin
*175 Togepi Togepi
*176 Togetic Togechikku
*177 Natee Neitei
*178 Natotem Neiteio
*179 Mareep Meripu
*180 Skiploom Mokoko
*181 Centerity Denryu
*182 Bellossom Kireihana
*183 Marill Mariru
*184 Azumarill Mariruri
*185 Sudowoodo Usokki
*186 Politoed Myorotono
*187 Hoppip Hane
*188 Flaffy Popo
*189 Jumpluff Watakko
*190 Aipom Eipamu
*191 Sunkern Himanattsu
*192 Sunflora Kimawari
*193 Dunsparce Yanyanma
*194 Ampharos Upa
*195 Quagsire Nuoh
*196 Espeon Efui
*197 Umbreon Burakki
*198 Murkrow Yamikarasu
*199 Slowking Yadoking
*200 Trillix Muuma
*201 ????? Annon
*202 Crashin Sonansu
*203 Girafarig Kirinriki
*204 Skarmory Kunugidama
*205 Forretress Fuoretosu
*206 Duglari Nokocchi
*207 Gligar Guraiga
*208 Steelix Haganeru
*209 Snubbull Buru
*210 Granbull Guranburu
*211 Wobbuffet Harisen
*212 Scizor Hassamu
*213 Octorock Tsubotsubo
*214 Heracross Herakuroso
*215 Misdreavus Nyuura
*216 Moonlite Himeguma
*217 Soloar Ringuma
*218 Slugma Magumaggu
*219 Magcargo Magukarugo
*220 Swinub Urimu
*221 Sirnub Inomu
*222 Corsola Sanigo
*223 Remoraid Teppouo
*224 Octillery Okutan
*225 Delibird Deribado
*226 Mantine Maintain
*227 Wooper Eamudo
*228 Houndour Derubiru
*229 Houndoom Heruga
*230 Kingdra Kingudora
*231 Phanpy Gomazou
*232 Donphan Donfuyan
*233 Porygon 2 Porygon 2
*234 Stantler Odoshishi
*235 Artibull Doburu
*236 Hitmontot Baruki
*237 Hitmontop Kapoera
*238 Smoochum Muchura
*239 Elekid Erekid
*240 Magby Bubii
*241 Miltank Mirutanku
*242 Blissey Hapinasu
*243 Raikou Raikou
*244 Entei Entei
*245 Suicune Suikun
*246 Larvitar Yogirasu
*247 Pupitar Sanagirasu
*248 Tyranitar Bangirasu
*249 Lugia Lugia
*250 Ho-Oh Houou
*251 Selebi Serebeii

[http://maxpages.com/ashversusgary/Gold_Silver_Pokedex Source]
--[[User:Ambipom|Ambipom]]--
:Seems as if some, like Flaaffy and Skiploom, are flipped. --'''[[User:TTEchidna|T]][[User talk:TTEchidna|T]][[wp:Echidna|Echidna]]''' 22:52, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

::Wow, I actually remember those lists from back when G/S wasn't out in English yet. Every site had their own list of names that were confirmed, then had potential names that had been registered as copyrights or whatever listed somewhere and had people try to figure out which name went to which Pokémon.

::So, of course, the reason a few of them are mixed around is because the list was made when we could see what names had been registered (domain names of each Pokémon's name usually get registered by Nintendo ahead of time, or something like that); nobody knew what a Skiploom actually was, so Flaaffy ended up with the name Skiploom in most fans' lists (I guess nobody noticed the hop-skip-jump thing.)

::There's even a few of the common misspellings of the Japanese names that showed up in a lot of magazines and stuff before G/S's English release. "Hane"/"Popo" instead of Hanekko/Popokko, for example. With those in the list, I'm actually surprised the list doesn't have "Yanyan" listed as Umbreon/Burakki's Japanese name--that was a disturbingly common slip-up that magazines used to make back then.

::I do remember some of those names, but as far as I know "Natee" and "Natotem" never actually came from any sort of official source (either stated in Nintendo Power or registered online somewhere)--I actually remember talking about how "Xatu" and "Xoqo" (the guesses for Natu and Xatu's names at the time) were good names once, and someone randomly butted in and said that they should be named "something like Naytee or Natotem" instead. So yeah, those two are definitely fan-made names, probably made by people who wanted Cheesy Cram-Two-Words-Together Names and didn't like the much-more-interesting ones like Xatu. I also don't remember "Octorock" as a name for Tsubotsubo--and it's extremely unlikely that Nintendo was ever considering it, since it's already the name of a well-known Zelda monster. [[User:Zdododododo|Zdododododo]] 07:42, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

::The dodgy Maxpages fansites aside, here is what turned up from google searches of "Artibull" "Trillix" "Duglari" and "Xoqo":
http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/archive/index.php?t-19796.html [THIS GUY KNOWS WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT]
http://www.woodrecords.com/megahangout/Pokedex_4_Gold_and_Silver [early list, including the games they're found in]
http://maxpages.com/pokemonil/Gold_and_Silver_English_Names
http://maxpages.com/pokepapparazzi/Pokemon
http://www.gamefaqs.com/portable/gbcolor/file/198308/9132 [japanese walkthru with english names pasted in - confused names in the pokedex]
http://theoparadise.tripod.com/oldnews.htm [scroll down for pokemon list]
http://guidesarchive.ign.com/guides/11154/marowak.html ["guardia"]
http://www.pokebeach.com/pokemon.shtml [has all the beta names for red blue pkmn]
http://www.angelfire.com/md2/lugia149/list.html [all correct except for xoqo and torvado]
http://www.math.miami.edu/~jam/azure/forum/tuff/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=001495 [forum chatter about name confusion]
http://members.fortunecity.com/putobracker/90.html [artibull and hitmontot, however its foreign]
http://maxpages.com/tecnospokemon/POKEMON_GOLD_AND_SILVER_ATTACK ["milk berry" is the beta "milk drink" attack btw]
http://maxpages.com/tecnospokemon/NEW_GOLD_AND_SILVER_ATTACKS_2
http://pokemaniac2948.tripod.com/Attacks/ [funny guessed attack names - atom force and gang beating lol]
http://members.tripod.com/alyshakitty/pokedex2.html
http://members.tripod.com/alyshakitty/pokedex2p3.html
http://members.tripod.com/alyshakitty/pokedex2p4.html
http://members.tripod.com/alyshakitty/pokedex2p5.html
All of the Kanto names mentioned on these and other websites are genuine beta names. The poster included with my first edition 2BA Master CD had about 15 out 150 pokemon with the bizarre beta names like "dragoon" and "Guardia". These names are on the Pokemon's individual pages but they should be collected together. Same with the gold and silver names, at least a paragraph explaining the confusion that occurred among the fans. Sorry if this entry is too long and rambly :) [[User:Jurgen200|Jurgen200]]

I remember something like that in a magazine too, with beta images of the pokemon w/beta names. I lost it though. I think it was in Beckett.
[[User: Firemaker|Firemaker]]

what are crashin, trillix and number 201?- ''unsigned comment from {{u|Nobody777}} ([[User talk:Nobody777|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Nobody777|contribs]]) ''
:Crashin (Sonansu) is {{p|Wobbuffet}}, Trillix (Muuma) is {{p|Misdreavus}}, and ????? (Annon) is {{p|Unown}}. ([[User:Yaminokame|Yaminokame]] 13:41, 27 January 2010 (UTC))

== Is honouguma somehow related to the [[Pikachu]] and [[Marill]], much like the three birds? ==

[[Image:183Marill.png]][[Image:Alpha honouguma.png]][[Image:025Pikachu.png]] 
Am I the only one to see a connection here? - [[User:Yukushi wisdom|Yukushi wisdom]] 19:15, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
:Hmm... Yeah, I see one. '''[[User:TTEchidna|TTE]][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 01:16, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
::Yeah... [[User:SpecialK|SpecialK Leiks Lucario and The Celebi Glitch]] 14:45, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

== Unown ==

Those "unreleased" Unown don't have to be unreleased.

*They don't count as Beta Pokémon because they were revealed after the release of Gold/Silver.
*I doubt they were ever meant to exist in games. They might be just anime-made.
*The pictures of Unowns seen in third movie are just pictures of several drawings of Unown. They may be a pure fiction. That's possible that these Unowns never existed, but someone drew them like that.

This page is about Pokémon which didn't make it to the final game. Those Unowns aren't one of them. They are anime-wank and no one says they were ever meant to exist. Those pictures in the movie were just DRAWINGS made by PEOPLE, not photos of real Unown. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 18:15, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
:Well the ! and ? Unown are proof that more Unown designs were being considered for the next games, so they should be added[[User:Vuvuzela2010|Vuvuzela2010]] 11:35, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
::They are no such thing. There's no evidence that the ! and ? Unown were planned since Gold and Silver. We just know that they were added in FRLG. Besides, this topice is like two and a half years old. --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] 11:39, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
:::well the film was released not long before Kecleon, Wailmer and Azurill were revealed, a year I think, and their designs were exactly the same as they look now, so they had possibly finalized a good number Ruby/Sapphire pokemon by then (I dont know when the pics of Treecko, Torchic and 'Latiken' were taken however, I am also unsure how long it takes them to make the films(they are usually crap so probably not long)), besides they could have just used pics of the 26 original unowns[[User:Vuvuzela2010|Vuvuzela2010]] 21:13, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

== "2v2" Template? ==

There's a template on the top of the page, and I don't know what it is supposed to be, could someone figure that out and fix it? [[User:Theininen|Theininen]] 16:01, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

:It's been taken care of. --[[User:Politoed666|ニョロトノ]][[User talk:Politoed666|''666'']] 16:06, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

::Thanks for that. [[User:Theininen|Theininen]] 16:29, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

== octorok comment ==

kirby has an ally named "chuchu" thats also zelda[[User:Whatswithalltheextraspace|Whatswithalltheextraspace]] 23:37, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
::Zelda's Chuchus didn't show up until LONG after Kirby's Dreamland 3. Plus, they're both gooey blob monsters that can stick to things, so it could be that the Zelda one was actually named after the Kirby one (or both were named after some other non-videogame-related thing... Japanese game/anime/etc. characters tend to have names like that pretty often.)[[User:Zdododododo|Zdododododo]] 19:39, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

== Page Title ==

The page title says unreleased Pokémon, yet there are designs of prototype player characters that definitely aren't Pokémon. I want to move the psge to something more appropriate, but what?--[[User:Kuki|Kuki]][[User talk:Kuki|Talk]] 00:25, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
:Maybe something like Unreleased Concept Artwork would be more accurate? Although since some of these are from magazines, saying the artwork itself is unreleased wouldn't be true...so something like Beta Concept Artwork? [[User:Lucentas|Lucentas]] 00:40, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
::Sometimes it's better to keep it simple. This is one of those times. [[User:GlinnMgraw|'''Glinn]] [[User_talk:GlinnMgraw|Mgraw''']] 07:22, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

== Pikachu.. ==

Does that really count? It's still Pikachu,it's just a little bigger(like a lot of the pre-anime designs,just look at the starters),and I'm pretty sure that came out after the games were released. Also,but offtopic,with Leaf..Should it be said she is Leaf? [[User:Lovely Rose|Lovely Rose]] 03:48, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

== Charizard.. ==

Should we include the Charizard from the same art as the Pikachu? It has a larger jaw then a regular Charizard, and is larger. [[User:Lovely Rose|Lovely Rose]] 17:05, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
:Many Pokémon designs change over the years. It's a completely different matter. It's simply early art, not really an unreleased thing. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 14:49, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

== unnamed turtle ==

In the male trainer section, the unnamed turtle is in the picture. Does this suggest that it is early art for {{p|Squirtle}}? [[User:Turtwig A|Turt]][[wig]] [[Turtwig (Pokémon)|A]] ([[User talk:Turtwig A|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|contribs]]) 23:50, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Most likely not since in that same picture one can see Tyranitar and other beta-Pokemon most likely from Gen II. As ar as I know it's a cover of a magazine that was suppose to report about the next Generation of Pokemon (or at least about plans). [[User:Ariano|Ariano]] 06:46, 24 March 2012 (UTC)
::I have the magazine in question. Unfortunately, there is no information on Gold/Silver within. The only indication of them is the cover itself. [[User:Slowpokeisgod|Slowpokeisgod]] 00:18, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
:::Hmmm... Most likely it's still not about Gen I Pokemon since it's from 1997... It could've been a "hint" of new games in development. [[User:Ariano|Ariano]] 06:44, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

== Starters? ==

Could Kurusu and Honoguma have originally been intended to be the Water and Fire Starters to go with Happa? [[User:Taromon777|'''''Taromon''''']] 14:29, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

== Does anyone remember this? ==

i just remember when I was a kid i had a magazine that showed all the then 100 new Pokémon. But they we're not in their Sugimori art. And I can't remember if they had their English names. If anyone remember, would it be useful?--'''[[User:Midnight Blue|Midnight]] [[User talk:Midnight Blue|''Blue'']]''' 05:08, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

if you can remember the name of the magazine and what issue and maybe post them on the talk page maybe they can be qualified as unreleased.--[[User:Nobody777|Nobody777]] 17:49, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

== Torchic and blaziken beta art ==

From did that art come from???--[[User:Nobody777|Nobody777]] 18:48, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
:I've seen that in 151chan (posted by a very trustable person). It seems to be photographed from some gallery. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 18:51, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

are there anymore pictures we can post or at least a reference??--[[User:Nobody777|Nobody777]] 19:26, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

== Green? It's BLUE! and other conflicts involving the Character section ==

I was reading a scanlation of Pokémon Special when I saw one of the pics that's in
this article in it!(It's the black-and-white pic of Red, Green, and Blue with thier fully-evolved starters.) I was immediatly reminded of the article and went to it, sure that the page
said that the pic was beta art.

And I was wrong, but I saw something else!

The page said that the girl in the aforementioned pic was Green.

Either Green had a gender change or the article's wrong!

Here's who's who- with the boys equated with their Anime counterparts-

Red-"Ash"

Green-"Gary"

Blue-the girl

The article needs fixing, but since this also goes into parts I don't know about-
I'm still reading Red-Green-Blue- I can't fully proofread it.

Also, I think the book under the color pic showing Red, Green, and Blue with
thier unevolved starters is Pokemon Special- at least a copy of it.
[[User:ThaPoketrix|ThePoketrix]] 22:24, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
:The rival's name is Blue. He's known as Blue when he's an NPC in GSC and HGSS as a Gym Leader. However, he is known as Green in Japanese. As such, the girl's name would be Green, or Blue in Japanese, as was done in the manga. '''~ [[User:Sol|sol]][[User talk:Sol|ar]][[Special:Contributions/Sol|is]]''' 22:30, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
::Some fans have a tendency to mix Japanese names with English (especially in the case of Blue/Green). But they're not right. Trust official sources, not scanslations made by fans. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 07:33, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

== Who is that? ==

Who is supposed to be riding the Latias/Blaziken Pokemon in the artwork? [[User:Flyingtypefan|Flyingtypefan]] 23:30, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
:Some unused trainer obviously. Maybe they should have their own entry?--[[User:Pokelova|''Poké'']][[User talk:Pokelova|lova!]] 04:29, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
Does anyone else think so? [[User:Flyingtypefan|Flyingtypefan]] 06:06, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
::This very artwork was later heavily remade by Sugimori into a scene artwork with actual Latias and Latios. There's a girl that rides that Latios on that art. This isn't really the same girl but she looks a bit similar. You know which artwork I mean, don't you? --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 07:50, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Unfortunately, no. I didn't really pay attention to art and stuff with Gen III. Can you show me the art?--[[User:Pokelova|''Poké'']][[User talk:Pokelova|lova!]] 11:18, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
::::It's at [[a:File:Latias_Latios.png]]. But I don't know if it's that important to this article-- unlike some of the Pokémon or characters on this page, this character probably was never intended to appear in any game. Methinks this artwork is merely intended to be just that, artwork. It doesn't have to correspond with anything from any game. --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] 12:10, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
:::::She's still an unreleased character with beta art.--[[User:Pokelova|''Poké'']][[User talk:Pokelova|lova!]] 12:18, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::Should she be referenced to then? {{unsigned|Lovely Rose}}

== Unnamed Turtle And Shuckle? ==

Though the article states it is similar to Squirtle, could it possibly be an evolved form of Shuckle? They both have a shell, they both have similarly shaped heads and considering Shuckle was introduced in generation II, it could have been an expansion on the family. Think of the expansions on gen II families in gen IV. This could have been the same thing. I do agree, however, it does look like Squirtle though. [[User:FrozenStrategy|FrozenStrategy]] 19:32, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

== Unknown Pokemopolis Pokemon ==

During the episode The Ancient Puzzle of Pokemopolis, Brock is seen holding a statue of an unknown pokemon, worth a mention I think.
http://www.serebii.net/anime/pictures/indigo/074ps1.shtml

[[User:Vuvuzela2010|Vuvuzela2010]] 04:20, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
:Wow, nice find. Definitely needs a mention. Perhaps the last one is trapped in the GS Ball :D And re-watching the episode, perhaps also the statues in sequence shortly after: [http://www.serebii.net/anime/pictures/indigo/074ps2.shtml here]. I'm surprised no one noticed this before. I guess everyone repressed the memory of that horrifying french accent. - [[User:DanPMK|MK]] ([[User Talk:DanPMK|t]]/[[Special:contributions/DanPMK|c]]) 04:43, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
::Celebi is in the GS Ball. Kurt ate it. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 04:49, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
:::Heh. Closest Pokémon that frame fits is Teddiursa, but the difference is enough that I'd call it unknown. - [[User:DanPMK|MK]] ([[User Talk:DanPMK|t]]/[[Special:contributions/DanPMK|c]]) 04:51, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
::::I am now almost certain that the artifact is Honoguma with round ears, as they are both bear-like, have similar builds, obviously the markings would not normaly be part of the Pokemon, as the Psyduck artifact, Giant Gengar, Giant Alakazam & Giant Jigglypuff have similar markings, anybody else see the resemblance?[[User:Vuvuzela2010|Vuvuzela2010]] 12:17, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

== "Resembles" ==

Can we excise all the speculation about what a released Pokémon each unreleased Pokémon somewhat resembles? Isn't it entirely possible that these Pokémon are entirely unreleased and in no way influenced the design of later Pokémon? [[User:Slowpokeisgod|Slowpokeisgod]] 09:13, 8 October 2010 (UTC)
:Well, for most of them from Generation II and onward, it's pretty obvious which later designs they influenced; take Happa for instance, it's obviously a beta Chikorita. But I wouldn't be against removing the speculation about the pre-Generation II art, such as the "unnamed turtle". --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] 10:51, 8 October 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I think the info that is obviously rubbish should be removed, such as Honoguma (a bear, & a starter) being related to Raichu, & Kurusu (also a starter) being a pre-evo of Seel or Lapras (no resemblance whatsoever), also, I cannot see any resemblance between the Turtle & Turtwig (yet another starter), & it is highly unlikely to be an evo of Squirtle (someone was obviously obsessed with starters!), the about the Turtle & Purutoga should stay however, since the similarities are pretty undeniable, the bit about Torkoal might as well stay too.[[User:Vuvuzela2010|Vuvuzela2010]] 11:29, 8 October 2010 (UTC)
:::I happen to have the full artwork of the turtle and can say that it has very little resemblance to Purutoga. I think rather than having an actual relation they just have similar design themes, both being turtles and all. For example, the new electric flying squirrel resembles Pachirisu, but they're not related. They simply follow typical themes standard for a Pokemon of that type. [[User:Slowpokeisgod|Slowpokeisgod]] 00:39, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
::::couldn't the relation between the old turtle and new turtle be that the old one was scrapped concept art that was revived for the new generation when they decided to discount the old pokemon and make this one completely new?--[[User:Ash0011|Ash0011]] 20:28, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

== EP072 thing ==

I wouldn't really try to search for any meaning in that bear-like thing from EP072. It's a random thing, most likely created for the anime only. It has no meaning. There's no evidence that it was ever intended to be a Pokemon. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 18:22, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
:Looking into it, it's a painted Psyduck figure.--'''[[User:Immewnity|''immewnity'']][[User talk:Immewnity|the]][[Special:Contributions/Immewnity|mew]]''' 14:30, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
::There is a Psyduck artifact, but thats not what this is about.[[User:Vuvuzela2010|Vuvuzela2010]] 14:40, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::the one that brock is holding looks more bear-ish and isn't yellow--[[User:Ash0011|Ash0011]] 20:25, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

== Ok, Really? ==

I know the pink top looks like Hitmontop but it looks clearly like a Clefairy as well, and Cleffa came the next generation did it not? The "Meoth whiskers" thing is a bit vaque though. But can we at least mention Clefairy? --[[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']]''' 20:17, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

== Turtle ==

couldn't the relation between the old turtle and new turtle be that the old one was scrapped concept art that was revived for the new generation when they decided to discount the old pokemon and make this one completely new?--[[User:Ash0011|Ash0011]] 00:35, 22 January 2011 (UTC)
:Hellooo anyone care to comment?--[[User:Ash0011|Ash0011]] 22:08, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
::That's just speculation, we don't know that. And its not like Shellos and Gastordon, which were saved for the next generation, there is a 3 Generation (and 10 year) difference. Also, the artwork we currently have doesn't show the whole Pokemon, so untill we have that, we can't really speculate about this (if someone knows where to find the original, non-cropped artwork, please post it). '''X'''[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']]'''X''' 23:59, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
:::someone on the resembles thread says they have it.--[[User:Ash0011|Ash0011]] 21:40, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
::::Yes, I spotted that yesterday, I've posted a comment on their talk page, but thanks for mentioning that anyway. Still no reply though :( If it turns out to be a dead end, I might look around the web myself, though where to find a reliable, non-fan-created picture is the problem. '''X'''[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']]'''X''' 21:47, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

== Arachnoid ==
In the episode "The Superhero Secret" there is a strange arachnoid. It can be seen on this page [http://www.serebii.net/anime/pictures/johto/140ps5.shtml]
[[User:Kodde|Kodde]] 11:35, 22 January 2011 (UTC)
:That's [[team rocket]]'s robot--[[User:Ash0011|Ash0011]] 04:06, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
No it isn't. If you watch the episode you can see that it dosen't move mechanicaly and it dosen't say anywhere that it is team Rockets robot. [[User:Kodde|Kodde]] 10:03, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
:Having just watched the episode, it would certainly seem to be a Pokemon, even if it is just supposed to be a prop (it even has a cry), though it would have been created for just this episode (though it's not the first anime-exclusive Pokemon). It is odd however, that they did not just use a giant Spinarak. It should be added, if you want to add it feel free, though I will probably get round to adding it tommorrow.'''X'''[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']]'''X''' 17:47, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
::It's a fictional monster. Fictional from the Pokémon world's point of view too. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 18:13, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
:::In other words, it is a fictional Pokemon, like how some legendaries are seen in universe to be fictional? Still worth noting. '''X'''[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']]'''X''' 19:05, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
:::That's obivously not what Maxim ment. That thing is obviously not ment to be a Pokémon. It's only ment to be a fictional monster for Gligarman to fight. If you're going to include that thing, you may as well include the Mongoose from Ghost of Madien's Peak episode or the worm Pidgeotto ate in episode 3, or the "Legendary Water Pokémon" Misty imagined in the Slowpoke Enlightenment episode Etc.[[User:PDL|PDL]] 19:31, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
::::But we don't know if it is ''not'' a Pokemon for certain, though I wouldnt say the others should be included, the mongoose is just Gastly, and I think the worm is just meant to be a real worm. I have not seen the Slowpoke episode however, so I cannot say anything about that thing (though I am getting it up on my laptop now). '''X'''[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']]'''X''' 20:02, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
:::::It was shown only in a fictional story of Gligarman. So, it's reasonable to assume that it doesn't exist in the Pokemon world. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 20:07, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
::::::oooooh that one okay that shouldn't count because that looks like it's in one of those old giant spider-godzilla movies.--[[User:Ash0011|Ash0011]] 20:22, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
If you think it shouldnt be on the page, then you can remove it, though I still feel it should be in the article, as it is for ''Unreleased Pokemon'', and even though it may be fictional, it is still seems highly likely that it is a fictional Pokemon, and thus releavant to the article. As for not existing in the Pokemon world, with the possible exeption of the EP072 bear, none of the unreleased Pokemon on this page would exist in the Pokemon world either... '''X'''[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']]'''X''' 20:25, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
:okay then that makes sense--[[User:Ash0011|Ash0011]] 21:33, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
:Perhaps it would be better to have a separate list for "Non-Pokémon" creatures and keep this entry specifically about Unreleased or beta Pokémon '''As they are ment to appear in the games'''. Anime only stuff hardly counts. [[User:PDL|PDL]] 23:06, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
::While I disagree with your ''Anime only stuff hardly counts'' comment, as the anime is often used to showcase unreleased Pokemon (like Togepi, the gold Ho-Oh in EP001, or possibly the bear with a rather striking resemblance to Honoguma in EP072), the seperate list doesn't sound like a bad idea actually. Though I would prefer the name '''List of disputed Pokemon''' or something along those lines, as there is already a list for [[animals|non-Pokemon]]. This page would need to be renamed to reflect the change, unless the list would simply be a new section on this page? '''X'''[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']]'''X''' 23:47, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Then I wonder why [[Zapmolcuno]] isn't here. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 10:42, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
::::I was refraining from adding it, incase everything was to be moved around. Same goes for [[Venustoise]], the unreleased Unown forms seen in [[M03]], the Sun and the Fairy seen in the book of Legendary Pokemon in [[M03]], the wooden Celebi seen in [[M04]], and the creature attacking Alto Mare at the start of [[M05]]. '''X'''[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']]'''X''' 17:52, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
Perhaps we really should keep this page for Pokémon artwork that's explicitly "beta". Anime appearences of "non-Pokémon" should really go to a different page. [[User:PDL|PDL]] 00:42, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

I think that We should add the ones mentioned above as they are ''presumably'' pokémon and I think we should add a section for pokemon appearing only in the manga that have no natural explanation such as Zapmolcuno and the manga dialga/palkia fusion statue at eterna city (there is a picture of it on the eterna city talk page).--[[User:Nobody777|Nobody777]] 17:58, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
:they should be added, but for now, you can add them to this page
:[[User:Vuvuzela2010/Disputed Pokémon]]
:'''X'''[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']]'''X''' 19:26, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

== Kurusu = Daikenki/Samurott? ==

Does anybody here see a resemblance between the unreleased Kurusu and the 5th-Gen Samurott/Daikenki?

[[File:Alpha kurusu.png|300px|Kurusu]]

[[File:503Samurott.png|300px|Samurott]]
--[[User:Bad Grim|Bad Grim]] 04:52, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
:Um..... No. They're vaguely the same shape and that's it. [[User:Ikarishipper900|Ikarishipper900]] 04:00, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

I see it... Quadrupeds, probably water-type, maybe a very old possibility for Oshawott?
[[User:Shinyzubat123|Shinyzubat123]] 21:22, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

The similarity is as obvious as between Honoguma, Pikachu/Raichu and Marill... [[User:Ariano|Ariano]] 06:41, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

==Bellossom? Jynx?==
If Bellossom is on here for a color change, shouldn't Jynx be as well? To be honest I feel like Bellossom being on here is a little sketchy since the dark blue coloring was obviously released. However, if Bellossom is valid, Jynx should be on here too, right? [[User:Ikarishipper900|Ikarishipper900]] 03:59, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
:No. Jynx was originally black and released as black coloured, but it was changed along the course of the franchise. While Bellossom was previewed to be dark blue, but was changed to a green colour before release.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F''']][[Reshiram (Pokémon)|orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F''']][[Zekrom (Pokémon)|ire]] 09:31, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
::But wasn't this official GSC artwork? Why is that considered before release? [[User:Ikarishipper900|Ikarishipper900]] 04:38, 7 May 2011 (UTC)

== More unreleased Pokemon - Japanese translation needed ==

In the Capsule Monsters sketches, [http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/3897/pkmn1285890995744.jpg one shows two unreleased Pokemon, with their numbers and possibly Pokedex entries]. Can someone please translate this? {{unsigned|Vuvuzela2010}}
:The bug is Papyō and the cat is Buhī.--'''[[User:Dennou Zenshi|電禅]][[User talk:Dennou Zenshi|Den Zen]]''' 15:30, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
::[http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/8/8a/Pokemon_conceptart.jpg And here's three new Pokés:] the lizard is '''Godzillante''', the ape is '''Gorillaimo''' and the Dragon is '''Dragon4'''.--'''[[User:Dennou Zenshi|電禅]][[User talk:Dennou Zenshi|Den Zen]]''' 17:53, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
:::Thanks for that! I've added them all in now. Do you know what the text entries next to those five Pokemon say? It looks like it could be a Pokedex entry, or maybe it says what type they are? '''X'''[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']]'''X''' 20:39, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
::::I can't really translate Japanese text; I mainly just romanize katakana and hiragana.--'''[[User:Dennou Zenshi|電禅]][[User talk:Dennou Zenshi|Den Zen]]''' 20:49, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
:::::I'd personally make a separate section, or maybe even separate article for Capsule Monsters. They deserve a special place! --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 12:01, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
::::::Well, we do have [[Capsule Monsters]]. This is basically just an extension of that. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 12:42, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
:::::::So, I'd rather add them there or start a new article "List of known Capsule Monsters" or something like that. I don't think that the prototypes of Pokemon and scrapped Pokemon designs invented later should belong together. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 08:12, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
::::::::Yeah, I agree. They are two different things. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 10:11, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

== Moving to Prototype Pokemon and characters... ==

I'd like to suggest that this article be moved to "Prototype Pokémon and characters". Not only does this article list things that have been unreleased, but it also lists Pokemon whose designs had simply been alerted, and are therefore still technically released. "Prototype" can easily refer to both kinds, so I'd like to suggest that the article be moved to that. [[User:Rai Marshall|Rai Marshall]] 19:49, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
: I concur ''[[User:Sui|'''Sui''']][[User talk:Sui|'''Scorpio''']]'' 02:23, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

::Because half of this page is "altered", not "unreleased", I think the more universal term "prototype" is better suited. '''[[User:Toon Ganondorf|Toon Ganondorf ]] [[User Talk:Toon Ganondorf|(t]] [[Special:Contributions/Toon Ganondorf|c)]]''' 06:34, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
:::First, I think that early Capsule Monsters should be covered separately and things like Bellossom should be deleted. It doesn't fit here. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 07:41, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

::::Even if a listing of Capsule Monsters do get their own page, there's still other kinds of Pokemon designs that were still simply alerted, like those Gen II alters. There's still a reason for this to be called "Prototype Pokémon and characters". [[User:Rai Marshall|Rai Marshall]] 20:03, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
:::::Why should Bellossom be deleted? It was altered before release, and is relevant to the article. '''X'''[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']]'''X''' 20:09, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
::::::Also, I would support the move. '''X'''[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']]'''X''' 20:11, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
:::::::Actually, the artwork with purple Bellossom is its actual GS artwork (a final thing, not an early sketch like the rest). So, it's not really unreleased. At the same logic, we should also add Slowpoke here because it had a stripped belly in the original GSC. Many Pokemon has been given cosmetic design changes over the generations and it's really hard to call their older designs "prototype". --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 07:54, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
[[File:1999 Bellossom Artwork.png|thumb|right]]
:The Bellossom artwork was like that years before G/S were released, they just never bothered changing it. And Slowpoke is hardly the same, that was just a sprite error. '''X'''[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']]'''X''' 09:36, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
::Sprite error? "Error" implies accident. This doesn't look like an accident. There's no artwork from that era which contradicts that "error", hence no proof that it's an error. And the fact that Bellossom's artwork wasn't changed means that it's to be treated as a final thing. And compared to the other prototypes we have, it's a really minor change. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 14:18, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
:::I support the move: I just think that a word better than prototype could be chose. It sounds too mechanical. ''[[User:Maverick Nate|'''Maverick''']][[User talk:Maverick Nate|'''Nate''']]'' 14:25, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
::::In response to the Bellossom point. The alterations to Bellossom are the same as those that Jynx undertook. They were both one color-scheme up until some time after their release, and then they were both changed post-release. If one should be included here then so should the other I would think. Thanks. ''[[User:Sui|'''Sui''']][[User talk:Sui|'''Scorpio''']]'' 20:50, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
:::::Error does not always mean accidental, it can also mean they screwed it up. A good example is the 'upside down' Koffing from Red and Blue (or any other sprite from Red/Green/Blue), obviously intentional. And Slowpoke's striped belly has not been seen in the anime, TCG, or any other media, even though it should be partially visible in [http://archives.bulbagarden.net/wiki/File:SabrinaSlowpokeGymHeroes95.jpg its TCG artwork] and [http://pkmncollectors.livejournal.com/3016560.html its Ken Suginori Bandai artwork].
:::::Also, Jynx does not count, since it ''was'' released. '''X'''[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']]'''X''' 05:28, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
:Sorry about Jynx, I got confused about the Bellossom artwork not changing. Slowpoke's striped belly can be seen in the Bandai artwork for Aerodactyl: http://pkmncollectors.livejournal.com/3016560.html ''[[User:Sui|'''Sui''']][[User talk:Sui|'''Scorpio''']]'' 05:55, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
::That's like saying that Charmander was 'prototype' because it once had spikes on its back. Ken Sugimori's early art had a lot of things depicted that were either changed or remove in subsequent games. Likewise with in-game sprites, such as the GRB Machamp with spikes on its head. But in all honesty, this section is supposed to be for discussion on whether this article should be moved, NOT whether Bellossum or Slowpoke was prototype. Can someone please split this up? [[User:Rai Marshall|Rai Marshall]] 06:02, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
:::Noted, I've moved it to the section below. '''X'''[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']]'''X''' 12:07, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
::::Er, no. This wasn't split up. [[User:Rai Marshall|Rai Marshall]] 01:05, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

== Palette changes ==

Rather than just delete, lets harness the power of the talk page. Should altered palettes, like those found below, be included in the altered Pokémon section? ''[[User:Sui|'''Sui''']][[User talk:Sui|'''Scorpio''']]'' 20:42, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

{{TrainerPoké
|nick=Wynaut
|type1=Psychic
|img=Beta Wynaut.png
|epnum=Pokémon Ruby and Sapphire beta
|epname=Pokémon Ruby and Sapphire beta
|desc={{main|Wynaut (Pokémon)}}[[File:360Wynaut.png|170px|right]] Pre-release screenshots of Wynaut show that it was going to be green in color rather than blue.}}

{{TrainerPoké
|nick=Excadrill
|type1=Ground
|type2=Steel
|img=BW Prerelease double battle.png
|epnum=Pokémon Black and White beta
|epname=Pokémon Black and White beta
|desc={{main|Excadrill (Pokémon)}}[[File:530Excadrill.png|200px|right]] In Excadrill's first appearance in a promotional video, it was colored purple instead of brown and its stripes were mirrored. However, this was not long-lived, as it was changed to its current appearance in the next video.}}
:Both are video quality's fault. When the screenshot of Wynaut surfaced, we have already had its artwork revealed and it looked just like now, so there was never a design change. And this Excadrill was extracted from a very low-quality video. Actually, all colors on this video are off. Even Haxorus is greenish yellow. That's nothing more than a matter of quality. All high quality versions of the same video had correct colors. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 09:01, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
::Sorry to blend in the conversation, but how about Excadrill's belly pattern? That can't be a quality error, can it? [[User:TyraniThrone|Tyrani]][[User talk:TyraniThrone|Throne]] 11:12, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
:::My view is, it would probably be better to include those with minor alterations, such as Exadrill and Tyranitar, in a ''Minor alterations'' subsection. '''X'''[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']]'''X''' 11:29, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
::::Does anyone know the exact date when Bellossom's GS artwork was released? If it was after its first anime appearance (where it was green), it could be worth mentioning the contradiction. '''X'''[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']]'''X''' 12:07, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

== Buizel ==

I remember I saw once a scan of a magazine released before the release of D&P showing a black siloutte of Buizel with two "collars" instead of one. If I find it again may this added to this page? Also the Unnamed turtle actually have legs, it isn't "just a head sticking out of a shell". --[[User:SamuStar|SamuStar]] 16:27, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

== Altered human designs ==

There's a template for Altered Pokemon Designs, so why not for the humans? I can think of a few who received design overhauls.. As said Silver's hair was shorter in the concept art, Kris seems to have gotten a design overhaul from the beta to the main product, and that seems to be Red in the Capsule Monster sketches. [[User:Dia Sprite|Dia Sprite]] 23:52, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

== Who are this Pokemon? ==

http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/3706/45234089orgv1315354262.jpg

Seriously... Who? I thought the fish was Basculin but the name does not match, then we have that... Siloutte thing next to Deerling that does not match any of the forms of neither Deerling or Sawsbuck, Alomomola design is noticeable different (and shares traits with Luvdisc: Shape, "blush sticker" and mouth, I think it was once planned to be an evolution) and Pansage is fat.

I also noticed the battle sprites are similar to those of Generation IV, same half-body back-sprites.

Found [http://photozou.jp/photo/show/761853/45234089 here]. [[User:LurKasumi|LurKasumi]] 09:18, 8 September 2011 (UTC)
:That image was a hoax from the Japanese Black and White pre-release period. - [[User:Kogoro|'''Kogoro''']] '''-''' [[User talk:Kogoro|'''Talk to me''']] - 09:28, 8 September 2011 (UTC)
:: Oh derp, thanks. [[User:LurKasumi|LurKasumi]] 09:35, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

== Additions ==

Here's a [http://archives.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Special:Contributions/Chickasaurus whole bunch of stuff to add] for someone who has the time to add it in. [[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']][[Koffing (Pokémon)| ☠]] 19:36, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
:I plan on adding these soon. They supposedly originated on Game Freak's blog in one of the archived posts, though I wasn't able to find it; I read about it as a recent addition on the Japanese Pokémon Wiki, and I believe its been [http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/members/1970/30491/index6.html considered] before about adding these when SmearglePaints ({{user|Redstar}}) brought it up on the forums last year.

:There is a [http://hakuda2.web.fc2.com/ir/poke4/trust.html Japanese website] focusing on lost Pokémon which hosts that artwork and has further information about more Generation II lost Pokémon other than the three 'starters' and variations (namely 'Akua', 'Akueria', 'Netamon' and 'Elekingu') which were apparently seen in the [[Nintendo World|Nintendo Space World 1997]] demo but had only their names shown. The Japanese Pokémon Wiki also had these and more variations which none of the other sources mention, though I don't know of the validity. I uploaded the Japanese Pokémon Blue artwork because of some of the ambiguous designs, I don't know if they should count though. --[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] 20:58, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

::The recent images added are fan drawings, not official artwork of any kind. As such they should be removed. [[User:Slowpokeisgod|Slowpokeisgod]] 02:31, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
:::Oh ok, is that right? I'm wondering then where the author ([http://hakuda2.web.fc2.com/ir/poke4/trust.html ボツポケモン応援隊]) originally got the concept from. I know of some [http://bbs.tgbus.com/viewthread.php?action=printable&tid=1932117 sprites of them] but I'm unsure of their legitimacy. I heard that these Pokémon were shown on Game Freak's website but I haven't been able to find an archived version of the original page yet. --[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] 13:33, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
::::The sprite sheet is fully legitimate. I'd have to ask my friend the exact place it was found, which provided information on when they were secured, but I'd say there's enough sources to indicate this as a legitimate find. [[User:Slowpokeisgod|Slowpokeisgod]] 08:07, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

== Pocket Monsters Blue designs ==

"Near the bottom right is a Pokémon face, possibly based on Nidorino." It looks like Pidgeotto to me--[[User:SamuStar|SamuStar]] 18:35, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
:Not that one...the one to the left and up. '''[[User:LimeGreenCharizard|LimeGreen]]''[[User talk:LimeGreenCharizard|Charizard]]'''''[[Special:Contributions/LimeGreenCharizard|♂]] 19:57, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
Now I see, thank you. At first it looked like Venomoth to me, but it's surely Nidorino (or at least Nidoran♂) --[[User:SamuStar|SamuStar]] 20:15, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

== Some early designs ==

Early artwork on the pocket monsters cardass trading cards page shows a pikachu with a white belly and large execute with small ones the designs are the same as what they looked like in there red blue and green sprites so i think they should be on this page because the kakuna and rhyhorn with the same story are on there. Also there is a graveler with golden fingures on that page too.
[[User:Kybett98|Kybett98]] 04:45, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
:Someone should probably add the Carddass Charmander and the early back sprites for him, since the card shows his now-unexistant ridges down his back.[[User:Mefredbob|Mefredbob]] 09:41, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
Oh yes i never noticed him i saw that the ones i requested where added but have now been removed why? {{unsigned|Kybett98}}

== Unnamed Turtle ==

I think the unnamed turtle could be a Pokémon with no roots in any other Pokémon, meaning it was originally going to be a seperate Pokémon but was completely scrapped, and perhaps it was related to Kurusu. Can anyone shoot me down with fact?
[[User:Shinyzubat123|Shinyzubat123]] 21:30, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

== Even more designs ==

Recently, this year [http://bbs.tgbus.com/viewthread.php?action=printable&tid=1932117 users on TGBUS] revealed a few more designs, and annotated some of the existing ones in English e.g. "The inside of a hotel. You can see a device for healing your Pokémon inside". I've seen the former sprites (below) on 2chan, but was unsure of its legitimacy, since its marked December 1997. It would be most appreciated if someone could translate it. I have heard that Nyosuka and others were mentioned once on Gamefreak's official Japanese website, but I can't find the original page and I'm unsure if images of them were ever officially revealed. Sorry, if that's a lot to ask for though.
*[http://17woo.tgbusdata.cn/month_1101/11011600533674699a45d777f6.jpg Sprites]
*[http://17woo.tgbusdata.cn/month_1101/11011600397a98e2b81ee3b0b7.jpg Kabīn] --[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] 13:22, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
:The sprite list featuring the early designs for the Poliwhirl, Weedle and Dratini lines are indeed official. A friend of mine discovered them several months ago on a blog by someone who salvaged them back in 1999. My friend also has an English translation for the text seen within the image. [[User:Slowpokeisgod|Slowpokeisgod]] 06:26, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
::Do you mean this [http://fuckyeahbetapokemonart.tumblr.com/page/1 blog]? I came across it later last Wednesday when doing an image search of the artwork. I once saw the images on 2chan, but I thought they were probably fake and confused them with the fan artwork on [http://hakuda2.web.fc2.com/ir/poke4/trust.html The Lost Pokémon]. The [http://wiki.xn--rckteqa2e.com/wiki/%E6%B2%A1%E3%83%9D%E3%82%B1%E3%83%A2%E3%83%B3%E3%81%AE%E4%B8%80%E8%A6%A7 Japanese Pokémon Wiki] seems to reaffirm information about them originating from Game Freak's website as well. I actually posted for a translation request on [http://jul.rustedlogic.net/thread.php?id=11437&page=15#375860 Jul] last October but never got anything back. That's great to hear that your friend took the time to translate it! Do you have a link to the translated version? --[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] 07:05, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
:::Yes, that blog is run by the same friend who discovered the sheet. The Lost Pokemon site (an affiliate of the RCB site and a correspondence of mine) had info on the sprites for awhile and we're actively looking for them. Because of them I went on the chase, but my friend was able to turn them up herself after I had given up. The Lost Pokemon then discovered themselves just a few weeks or months afterwards, so they get credit for spreading it on the Japanese side of things.

:::I've just had my friend provide the translation. Find it [http://fuckyeahbetapokemonart.tumblr.com/post/12592876977/wimscoot-piratekingatomsk here]. [[User:Slowpokeisgod|Slowpokeisgod]] 08:07, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
::::Thank you and wimscoot so much for this! I've gathered some thoughts on why it might say "Pokémon 2" even though the designs don't seem to belong to [[Generation II]] but I realize that here isn't a good place to speculate about this. What is your username on Bulbagarden Forums? (I'm Torchickens) I also apologize for the relatively late reply. --[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] 17:31, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

== Stunfisk ==

Beta Version from Stunfisk [http://pokemonblackandwhite.net/?p=4142]??? --Altruis 17:10, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
:That was from the Nintendo Dream interview, and it is most likely true, so it should be added. [[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']][[Latios (Pokémon)| Δ ]] 17:46, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

==Game-on Exhibition==
It may be old news, but for those asking for references, I took pictures from this long-running exhibition called Game On. It had some concept works on some game franchises and Pokémon was one of them. [http://www.barbican.org.uk/bie/exhibitions/game-on Check here for info on the expo.] There were some Ruby/Sapphire sketches there, such as the Torchic with floppy ears [http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g255/sfirah/DSC01532.jpg Torchic with floppy ears], the Treecko sketches [http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g255/sfirah/DSC01528.jpg (maybe a little clearer here)] and [http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g255/sfirah/DSC01529.jpg the Blaziken/Latias one]. There were also this [http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g255/sfirah/DSC01530.jpg other sketch of a floppy-eared Torchic] and this [http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g255/sfirah/DSC01533.jpg early Groudon sketch]. [[User:KurowaSan|KurowaSan]] 03:21, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

:I went to the expo again today and tried to get some better photos of the art. I'll try to upload them to Bulbagaren Archives and add them to the articles. [[User:KurowaSan|KurowaSan]] 02:28, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
:: Where is this geographically?[[User:Jdrawer|Jdrawer]] 02:38, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
:::Those are of most interest. If it happens to be there tomorrow do you plan to try to take a picture of all Pokemon sketches that you can? Also nice to hear you took more photos today. The beta Treecko looked like it had a bit of a Grovyle look to it on the arms. Salamence didn't look much different. Wonder why Torchic had the most redos, a floppy eared, then chubby floppy ears, interesting. [[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen Fennec]] 03:34, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
::::It goes around the world since 2002, always adding some new stuff to it. Right now, the expo is in Brasilia, Brazil.
I uploaded the pictures to Bulbagarden Archives. Torchic's [[http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/File:Torchic_Beta.jpg]] and Latiken's [[http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/File:Latias_Blaziken.jpg]] were added to the articles already, substituting the old ones. Treecko's [[http://archives.bulbagarden.net/wiki/File:Treecko_Beta.jpg]] (it wouldn't let me substitute the old one, so I just uploaded it separately and didn't change the article), Groudon's [[http://archives.bulbagarden.net/wiki/File:Groudon_Beta.jpg]] and Torchic's other concept art [[http://archives.bulbagarden.net/wiki/File:Torchic_Beta2.jpg]] were only uploaded, but not added to any of the articles. Someone please do it for me. xD [[User:KurowaSan|KurowaSan]] 03:51, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
: Excellent then. As for replacing the old images, I can see doing so for the Torchic but not the others at the moment. The new Torchic image you uploaded is great though since it is closer and higher quality, thanks for uploading the image. :) [[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen Fennec]] 03:54, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
::Ah as for the Treecko image, click on it, the click description page under the image which is in bold. Log in on the archives if not already and scroll down, click on upload new version of this file. [[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen Fennec]] 03:59, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
:::Thanks. I did that for the Treecko picture, but it said it had some trouble cause the old picture is a png file and the new one is a jpg. Even after I tried converting the new pic to png, it wouldn't accept. (Nevermind, it worked now. lol) [[User:KurowaSan|KurowaSan]] 04:09, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
::::I see the Groundon image has been uploaded but where would the image go? Prototype or Minor Alterations? [[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen Fennec]] 01:01, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
:::::I believe "Minor alterations" would be more accurate, as it basically remained the same, except for those marks it shares with Kyogre and Rayquaza (at least that's the only thing I noticed). [[User:KurowaSan|KurowaSan]] 01:19, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

== More designs ==

I found [http://fuckyeahbetapokemonart.tumblr.com/ this site] and it appears to have lots of legit designs that we're missing around here, despite being mixed up with fanart and fakes. But are the apparently legit ones really legit? Please discuss these findings. [[User:Pokemon lover|Sato]][[User talk:Pokemon lover|Mew]] 16:41, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

:Hehe, I've heard of this. There's this deviantArt group called TheLostPokemon, which is for the Pokemon in this article. The stuff's pretty legit (though I'd still want to check out the blog). A lot of the members of the group are artists, so their artwork is probably on the blog. [[User:Jdrawer|Jdrawer]] 22:59, 5 March 2012 (UTC)
::I run the dA group while my friend runs the tumblr blog. I can assure you that any fanwork is stated to be such while actual concept/design artwork is legit. [[User:Slowpokeisgod|Slowpokeisgod]] 21:47, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

== Unused girl on boxes? ==

The text about [[Prototype Pokémon and characters#Unreleased characters|this girl]] states "The image was shown on the boxes for the games" referring to the one that only her back is shown. I've checked {{tt|the Japanese box|the only one}} of Pokémon Green and didn't see the picture. Is this statement false? [[User:Duke R|'''|) u |( e''']] [[User talk:Duke R|'''®''']] 05:10, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
:[http://www.gamefaqs.com/gameboy/367023-pokemon-red-version/images/box-68474 Apparently] so (I don't own the Japanese games, but I plan on getting them), and I still have all the English games from long ago, but unfortunately without any box inserts. According to the box data on GameFAQs, the artwork doesn't appear on the back of Japanese Blue or Yellow (Pocket Monsters Pikachu) either. Perhaps the user who added it was referring to the instruction booklet? It might be worth noting that there was an [http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/5541/1290018520523.jpg official strategy guide] for {{2v2|Red|Green}} featuring the artwork. It's also interesting how this guidebook credits Ape Inc, the predecessor of Creatures Inc. --[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] 00:27, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

==fluffy torchic==
Am I the only one who instantly thought of Vullaby after seeing the fluffy torchic in the eggshell?[[User:Auragirl|Auragirl]] 04:08, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

== The guy who looks like a gymleader ==

In the article it says he was probably a dark gymleader but to me he looks more like a ground or rock user because tyranitar is ground as well,the turtle looks like a rock type and the hitmontop thing has a creamy dirt color plus he is wearing a turban with a gemSTONE does anyone agree?And he might of been the original concept for the first gym leader since he has only 3 pokemon that again to me seem like ground thus continueing rock(ground) type first gym.[[User:VENUS,MEGA,SCEPT,TORTE,SERP|VENUS,MEGA,SCEPT,TORTE,SERP]] 19:03, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
forget the first gym thing.[[User:VENUS,MEGA,SCEPT,TORTE,SERP|VENUS,MEGA,SCEPT,TORTE,SERP]] 18:30, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
: Surely you meant [[Tyranitar]] is Rock/Dark-type. Anyways, it's only speculation that he's Dark-type Gym Leader (he could just have been a regular trainer), but his clothes and hair style refer to dark. Also, he most likely was not the first Gym Leader as most Gym Leaders encountered first have two Pokemon (only Roark has three). It could also be noted that some Gym Leaders have Pokémon that are not of their speciality type (namely [[Volkner]] and [[Cilan]], [[Chili]] and [[Cress]]) and Rock-type specialists other than Roark generally have very little in their appearance to connect with their speciality type, plus in final product all Johto Gyms specialized in types that were not present in Kanto, at which time it would've been odd to use Gyms that "had been" there before (like Rock or Ground Gyms). I also can't picture the polypod Pokemon as a Rock-type. [[User:Ariano|Ariano]] 12:21, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

== Thundurus and Tornadus color change ==

It's stated Troh's and Sawk's horns were removed because Thundurus and Tornadus were blue and red, but they had later there color changed. So, why don't they get a place on this page? Maybe they can share there column with Troh and Sawk... [[User:Nickvang|Nickvang]] ([[User talk:Nickvang|talk]]) 12:33, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

== Cries ==

I attempted to post this as a comment on the YouTube video, but of course the stupid piece of shit excuse for a website kept giving me an "error try again" without any explanation. I guess this works just as well here anyways:

I've researched these cries for a while now and I hate how everyone keeps saying MissingNo. 0x45 sounds like Crobat or Golbat. Of course it does, because it is an *exact* copy of Zubat's cry. I'm following the same conclusion as everyone else (I hope it really way Crobat), but no one ever seems to realize that it isn't just similar to Zubat, it's exact. This also applies to MissingNo. 0x89 being an *exact* copy of Dragonair.

P.S. My notes: http://pastebin.com/yCry6qce -- [[User:Stag019|Stag019]] ([[User talk:Stag019|talk]]) 19:42, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

MissingNo.

2011-01-05T02:02:32Z

Stag019: Ask me for a source if you don't believe me

{{Featured}}
{{move|MissingNo.}}
{{GlitchPkmnInfobox
| name=Missingno.
| jname=けつばん
| tmname=Ketsuban
| image={{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: z}} mod 5}}|0=Missingno_RB|1=Spr 1b 141 f|2=Spr 1b 142 f|3=Ghost_I|4=Missingno_Y}}.png
| size=80
| caption=Missingno.'s {{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: z}} mod 5}}|0=Normal|1={{p|Kabutops}} fossil|2={{p|Aerodactyl}} fossil|3=Ghost|4=Yellow}} form
| ndex=000
| typen=4
| type1=Bird
| type2=Normal
| type3=Normal
| type4=999
| disptype1=Unknown
| disptype4=Unknown
| form1=Red/Blue
| form2=Yellow
| species=???
| height-ftin=10'0"
| height-m=3.0
| weight-lbs=3507.2
| weight-kg=1590.8
| games={{3v2|Red|Blue|Yellow}}
| hex=1F, 20, 32, 34, 38, 3D, 3E, 43, 44, 45, 4F, 50, 51, 56, 57, 5E, 5F, 73, 79, 7A, 7F, 86, 87, 89, 8C, 92, 9C, 9F, A0, A1, A2, AC, AE, AF, B5, {{tt|B6|Kabutops fossil Missingno.}}, {{tt|B7|Aerodactyl fossil Missingno.}}, {{tt|B8|Ghost Missingno.}}
| mewspecial=31, 32, 50, 52, 56, 61, 62, 63, 67, 68, 69, 79, 80, 81, 86, 87, 94, 95, 115, 121, 122, 127, 134, 135, 137, 140, 146, 156, 159, 160, 161, 162, 172, 174, 175, 181, {{tt|182|Kabutops fossil Missingno.}}, {{tt|183|Aerodactyl fossil Missingno.}}, {{tt|184|Ghost Missingno.}}
| oldmanchar=''(end of name marker)'', G, H, J, M, S, T, :, ], a, b, c, m, o, p, v, {{tt|w|Kabutops fossil Missingno.}}, {{tt|x|Aerodactyl fossil Missingno.}}, {{tt|y|Ghost Missingno.}}
| catchrate=3
| generation=1
| gen1equivexists=no
}}

'''Missingno.''' (Japanese: '''けつばん''' ''Ketsuban'') is a dual-type {{2t|Bird|Normal}} [[glitch Pokémon]] in {{v2|Red and Blue|s}}, and a dual-type {{2t|Normal|999}} [[glitch Pokémon]] in {{v|Yellow}}. Due to the ease of which it can be found, it is one of the best-known glitch Pokémon.

In later generations, other glitch Pokémon are referred to as "a Missingno.", despite there being little relation to the one found in {{v2|Red and Blue|s}} or {{v|Yellow}}.

Missingno.'s cry is the game's equivalent of a "blank" cry: a {{p|Nidoran♂}}'s voice with a pitch of 0 and no echo. However, a few Missingno. have different cries.

If Missingno.'s Pokédex data is viewed, it will consist of a very long string of glitchy sounds, much like [[.4]] or [[h POKé]]'s entries. However, unlike their entries, Missingno.'s does not lock up the game.

==Forms==
[[File:Missingno.png|thumb|right|220px|The five forms of Missingno. (clockwise from left: normal, Ghost, Aerodactyl, Yellow, Kabutops)]]

===Normal form===
Missingno. normal form has a sprite that is a strange block of glitched pixels in a backward-L shape. Due to the larger number of characters that can be used to make it appear, it is the most common form. Normal form is exclusive to {{2v|Red|Blue}}.
* This form appears through the [[old man glitch]] if the character in the third, fifth, or seventh slot of the player's name is the end of name marker, G, H, J, M, S, T, :, ], a, b, c, m, o, p, or v.
* This form appears through the [[Mew glitch]] with a {{stat|special}} stat of 31, 32, 50, 52, 56, 61, 62, 63, 67, 68, 69, 79, 80, 81, 86, 87, 94, 95, 115, 121, 122, 127, 134, 135, 137, 140, 146, 156, 159, 160, 161, 162, 172, 174, 175 or 181.

==={{p|Kabutops}} [[fossil]] form===
Missingno. {{p|Kabutops}} fossil form uses the sprite of the {{p|Kabutops}} fossil found in the [[Pewter Museum of Science]].
* This form appears through the [[old man glitch]] if w is the character in the third, fifth, or seventh slot of the player's chosen name.
* This form appears through the [[Mew glitch]] with a {{stat|special}} stat of 182.

==={{p|Aerodactyl}} [[fossil]] form===
Missingno. {{p|Aerodactyl}} fossil form uses the sprite of the {{p|Aerodactyl}} fossil found in the [[Pewter Museum of Science]].
* This form appears through the [[old man glitch]] if x is the character in the third, fifth, or seventh slot of the player's chosen name.
* This form appears through the [[Mew glitch]] with a {{stat|special}} stat of 183.

===[[Literal ghost|Ghost]] form===
Missingno. Ghost form uses the sprite of the [[Literal ghost|Ghost]] found in [[Pokémon Tower]] if the player does not have the [[Silph Scope]].
* This form appears through the [[old man glitch]] if y is the character in the third, fifth, or seventh slot of the player's chosen name.
* This form appears through the [[Mew glitch]] with a {{stat|special}} stat of 184.

==={{v|Yellow}} form===
Missingno. {{v|Yellow}} form is {{2t|Normal|999}}, whereas Missingno. forms in {{2v|Red|Blue}} are {{2t|Bird|Normal}}. It uses the palette of {{p|Pikachu}}, and so appears as a yellow and red glitched box. It also causes glitches that Missingno. in {{2v|Red|Blue}} did not. If caught, it will cause graphical glitches, possibly rendering the player invisible and making duplicates of the player and all other on-screen characters walk in random locations on the screen. Yellow form is exclusive to {{v|Yellow}}.
* This form does not appear through the [[old man glitch]], as the old man glitch was removed in {{v|Yellow}}.
* This form appears through the [[Mew glitch]] with a {{stat|special}} stat of 31, 32, 61, 62, 63, 67, 68, 69 or 86.

==Glitches caused==
[[Image:Halloffameglitches.png|thumb|right|160px|Examples of corrupted Hall of Fame entries.]]
Missingno.'s appearance in-battle allows the [[Item duplication glitch#Missingno. item duplication glitch|item duplication glitch]], which increases the number of items in the 6th bag slot by 255 if caught, or 128 if not caught.

Encountering Missingno. has been known to interfere with the save game data in various ways, such as adversely affecting the [[Hall of Fame]] saved data and (if its stats are viewed) messing with some graphics until the stats of a normal Pokémon are viewed. When a Trainer battles with Missingno. in their [[party]], both the Trainer sprite and their Pokémon's sprites will be scrambled, and all other sprites will be reversed. Viewing the [[stats]] screen of a non-glitch Pokémon will remove the effects.

==Trading Missingno.==
Missingno. can be traded from Red and Blue into {{game|Yellow}}, but cannot be traded forward through the [[Time Capsule]] into {{game2|Gold|Silver|Crystal}}. In Yellow, Missingno. levels down to level 1 if it gains any experience, and cannot grow any higher. The only way to use a Missingno. at a different level in battle is to use a [[link cable]] to battle between two games.

In the trade center, Missingno., due to its [[index number]], appears as many different [[Generation II]] Pokémon from the perspective of {{game2|Gold|Silver|Crystal}}, most commonly {{p|Tyrogue}} (due to the common name of ASH in Generation I). For a full list of the Generation II Pokémon Missingno. can appear as, see [[List of Pokémon by index number (Generation I)]]. If the player tries to trade Missingno., a message will appear stating "''Your <name> appears abnormal''." and the trade will automatically be cancelled. Rarely, if a Missingno. is successfully traded, it will become the Pokémon it was said to be, and act normally (though it will retain any and all moves it had as a Missingno.). At this point, it only may be traded back into the Generation I game while the player is still in the Time Capsule (where it will again become a Missingno.), as if the player leaves, the Generation II game will detect it as a {{cat|Generation II Pokémon}} and not allow the player to enter the Time Capsule.

==In {{Eng|Pokémon Stadium}}==
When viewed in {{Eng|Pokémon Stadium}}, Missingno. will appear as a {{m|substitute}} doll, while in [[Pokémon Stadium 2]], Missingno. will show up as a {{p|Ditto}}, and if the game is saved via Stadium 2, will then become a Ditto permanently. Capturing Missingno. in the [[Game Boy Tower]] in Pokémon Stadium may cause the cartridge to become unable to be played with Pokémon Stadium.

==Nintendo on Missingno.==
Nintendo has an official description of Missingno. listed in their Customer Service troubleshooting section:

<blockquote>"MissingNO is a programming quirk, and not a real part of the game. When you get this, your game can perform strangely, and the [[#Glitches caused|graphics will often become scrambled]]. The MissingNO Pokémon is most often found after you perform the [[Old man glitch|Fight Safari Zone Pokémon trick]].

To fix the scrambled graphics, try releasing the MissingNo Pokémon. If the problem persists, the only solution is to re-start your game. This means erasing your current game and starting a brand new one." <ref name="NintendoTroubleshooting">[http://www.nintendo.com/consumer/systems/gameboy/trouble_specificgame.jsp#missingno Nintendo - Consumer Service]</ref></blockquote>

Nintendo was incorrect on the method for fixing graphical issues; releasing Missingno. does not fix the graphics. The actual way to fix these issues is to view the Pokédex data or stat page of a [[Hybrid glitch Pokémon]] or official Pokémon.

==Game data==
===Pokédex entry===
[[Image:MissingnoPokedex3.PNG|thumb|center|Missingno.'s [[Pokédex]] data]]

===Game locations===
{{AvailabilityGlitch|
type={{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: z}} mod 5}}|4=Normal|unknown}}|
type2={{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: z}} mod 5}}|4=unknown|Normal}}|
gen=1 |
rbrarity=[[Glitch]] |
rbarea=[[Old man glitch]], [[Mew glitch]] |
yrarity=[[Glitch]] |
yarea=[[Mew glitch]]|
}}

{| width="100%" class="collapsible"
|
===Base stats===
|- class="{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: z}} mod 5}}|4=expandable|collapsible}}"
|
====In Red/Blue====
For the typical Bird/Normal type Missingno. associated with the end name marker with an [[index number]] of 80:

|-
|
{{stats/GenI |
HP=33 |
Attack=136 |
Defense=0 |
Special=6 |
Speed=29 |
type=unknown |
type2=normal }}

|- class="{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: z}} mod 5}}|4=collapsible|expandable}}"
|
====In Yellow====
|-
|
{{stats/GenI |
HP=178 |
Attack=19 |
Defense=11 |
Special=23 |
Speed=0 |
type=normal |
type2=unknown }}
|}

{| width="100%" class="collapsible"
|

===Type effectiveness===
|- class="{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: z}} mod 5}}|4=expandable|collapsible}}"
|
====In Red/Blue====
|-
|
{{RBY Type effectiveness|
type1=unknown|
type2=Normal|
Normal= 100 |
Flying= 100 |
Fighting=200 |
Ground= 100 |
Rock= 100 |
Bug= 100 |
Poison= 100 |
Ghost= 0 |
Fire= 100 |
Water= 100 |
Grass= 100 |
Electric=100 |
Psychic= 100 |
Ice= 100 |
Dragon= 100 |
notes=yes|
glitch=primary}}

|- class="{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: z}} mod 5}}|4=collapsible|expandable}}"
|
====In Yellow====
|-
|
{{RBY Type effectiveness|
type1=Normal|
type2=unknown|
Normal= 100 |
Flying= 100 |
Fighting=200 |
Ground= 100 |
Rock= 100 |
Bug= 100 |
Poison= 100 |
Ghost= 0 |
Fire= 100 |
Water= 100 |
Grass= 100 |
Electric=100 |
Psychic= 100 |
Ice= 100 |
Dragon= 100 |
notes=yes|
glitch=secondary}}
|}

===Learnset===
{| width="100%" class="collapsible"
|
====By [[Level|leveling up]]====
|- class="{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: z}} mod 5}}|0=collapsible|expandable}}"
|
=====Normal form=====
|-
|
====By [[Level|leveling up]]====
{{learnlist/levelh|Missingno.|glitch|normal|1|5}}
{{learnlist/level1|Start|Water Gun|Water|40|100|25}}
{{learnlist/level1|Start|Water Gun|Water|40|100|25}}
{{learnlist/level1|Start|Sky Attack|Flying|140|90|5}}
{{learnlist/level1|136|Pound|Normal|40|100|35||'''}}
{{learnlist/levelf|Missingno.|glitch|normal|1|5}}
|- class="{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: z}} mod 5}}|1=collapsible|2=collapsible|3=collapsible|expandable}}"
|
=====Kabutops fossil, Aerodactyl fossil and Ghost forms=====
|-
|
The leveling up learnset of the Kabutops fossil, Aerodactyl fossil and Ghost forms are the same as the Pokémon whose data was accessed last.
|- class="{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: z}} mod 5}}|4=collapsible|expandable}}"
|
=====Yellow form=====
|-
|
{{learnlist/levelh|Missingno.|Normal|unknown|1|5}}
{{learnlist/level1|Start|Pay Day|Normal|40|100|20||'''}}
{{learnlist/level1|Start|Bind|Normal|15|75|20||'''}}
{{learnlist/level1|Start|Water Gun|Water|40|100|25}}
{{learnlist/levelf|Missingno.|Normal|unknown|1|5}}
|}

{| width="100%" class="collapsible"
|

====By [[TM]]/[[HM]]====
|- class="{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: z}} mod 5}}|0=collapsible|expandable}}"
|
=====Normal form=====
|-
|
{{learnlist/tmh|Missingno.|glitch|normal|1|5}}
{{learnlist/tm1|TM01|Mega Punch|Normal|80|85|20||'''}}
{{learnlist/tm1|TM02|Razor Wind|Normal|80|100|10||'''}}
{{learnlist/tm1|TM03|Swords Dance|Normal|—|—|30}}
{{learnlist/tm1|TM05|Mega Kick|Normal|100|75|5||'''}}
{{learnlist/tm1|TM06|Toxic|Poison|—|85|10}}
{{learnlist/tm1|TM09|Take Down|Normal|90|85|20||'''}}
{{learnlist/tm1|TM10|Double-Edge|Normal|120|100|15||'''}}
{{learnlist/tm1|TM11|BubbleBeam|Water|65|100|20}}
{{learnlist/tm1|TM13|Ice Beam|Ice|95|100|10}}
{{learnlist/tm1|TM14|Blizzard|Ice|120|70|5}}
{{learnlist/tm1|TM17|Submission|Fighting|80|80|25}}
{{learnlist/tm1|TM19|Seismic Toss|Fighting|—|100|20}}
{{learnlist/tm1|TM20|Rage|Normal|20|100|20||'''}}
{{learnlist/tm1|TM25|Thunder|Electric|120|70|10}}
{{learnlist/tm1|TM26|Earthquake|Ground|100|100|10}}
{{learnlist/tm1|TM27|Fissure|Ground|—|30|5}}
{{learnlist/tm1|TM29|Psychic|Psychic|90|100|10}}
{{learnlist/tm1|TM30|Teleport|Psychic|—|—|20}}
{{learnlist/tm1|TM43|Sky Attack|Flying|140|90|5}}
{{learnlist/tm1|TM44|Rest|Psychic|—|—|10}}
{{learnlist/tm1|TM45|Thunder Wave|Electric|—|100|20}}
{{learnlist/tm1|TM49|Tri Attack|Normal|80|100|10||'''}}
{{learnlist/tm1|TM50|Substitute|Normal|—|—|10}}
{{learnlist/tm1|HM01|Cut|Normal|50|95|30||'''}}
{{learnlist/tm1|HM02|Fly|Flying|70|95|15}}
{{learnlist/tmf|Missingno.|glitch|normal|1|5}}
|- class="{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: z}} mod 5}}|1=collapsible|2=collapsible|3=collapsible|expandable}}"
|
=====Kabutops fossil, Aerodactyl fossil and Ghost forms=====
|-
|
The TM/HM learnset of the Kabutops fossil, Aerodactyl fossil and Ghost forms are the same as the Pokémon whose data was accessed last.
|- class="{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: z}} mod 5}}|4=collapsible|expandable}}"
|
=====Yellow form=====
|-
|
{{learnlist/tmh|Missingno.|normal|glitch|1|5}}
{{learnlist/tm1null}}
{{learnlist/tmf|Missingno.|normal|glitch|1|5}}
|}

{| width="100%" class="collapsible"
|

===Evolution===

|- class="{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: z}} mod 5}}|0=collapsible|4=collapsible|expandable}}"
|
|-
|
{{GlitchEvobox/Formes
|sprite1=Missingno_RB
|name1=Missingno.
|forme1=RGB
|loc1=Most index nos.
|type1-1=Bird
|type2-1=Normal
|disptype1-1=unknown
|sprite2=Missingno_Y
|forme2=Yellow
|loc2=Most index nos.
|type1-2=Normal
|type2-2=999
|disptype2-2=unknown}}

|- class="{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: z}} mod 5}}|3=collapsible|expandable}}"
|
|-
|
{{GlitchEvobox/Formes
|sprite1=Ghost_I
|name1=Missingno.
|forme1=Ghost
|loc1=182
|type1-1=Bird
|type2-1=Normal
|disptype1-1=unknown}}

|- class="{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: z}} mod 5}}|2=collapsible|expandable}}"
|
|-
|
{{GlitchEvobox/Formes
|sprite1=Spr 1b 142 f
|name1=Missingno.
|forme1=Aerodactyl fossil
|loc1=183
|type1-1=Bird
|type2-1=Normal
|disptype1-1=unknown}}

|- class="{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: z}} mod 5}}|1=collapsible|expandable}}"
|
|-
|
{{GlitchEvobox/Formes
|sprite1=Spr 1b 141 f
|name1=Missingno.
|forme1=Kabutops fossil
|loc1=184
|type1-1=Bird
|type2-1=Normal
|disptype1-1=unknown}}
|}

==Trivia==
* If counted among normal Pokémon, the typical 'normal form' Missingno. have the highest {{stat|Attack}} [[base stat]] of all valid Pokémon in {{v2|Red and Blue|s}}. This is the ninth highest of all Pokémon, not including other glitch Pokémon as of [[Generation IV]].
** Likewise, the 'normal form' Missingno. have the lowest {{stat|Defense}} base stat of any Pokémon, again not including other glitch Pokémon and the third lowest {{stat|Speed}} base stat in {{v2|Red and Blue|s}}.
*** The {{g|Yellow}} normal form Missingno. have 0 base speed. This ties with various [[Generation I]] glitch Pokémon for the lowest base Speed stat.
* Missingno. is much [[List of Pokémon by weight|heavier]] than any regular Pokémon. Missingno. is about four times heavier than [['M]]. Missingno. is about half the weight of [[h POKé]], the heaviest known Pokémon of any kind.
* Missingno.'s height is 10'0". [['M]] is more than twice as tall as Missingno. This makes Missingno. the [[List of Pokémon by height|19th tallest Pokémon]] when compared to non-glitch Pokémon.
* In its normal form, it has the same learnset as [['M]], except that 'M cannot learn {{m|Substitute}} via [[TM50]].
* In 2010, Missingno. was entered into GameFAQs' 8th annual Character Battle. It advanced to the third round by defeating {{wp|Crono}} and {{smw|Yoshi}}, but later lost to {{wp|Sephiroth (Final Fantasy)|Sephiroth}}.
* Normal form Missingno.'s stats in {{v2|Red and Blue|s}} are actually determined by the [[Party|parties]] of several {{tc|Biker}}s, read as base stats.

==Name origin==
Missingno.'s English and Japanese names are both derived from "missing number".

==External links==
* {{wp|MissingNo.|Article on Wikipedia}}
* [http://www.blue-reflections.net/ragecandybar/projects/missingno/ RAGECANDYBAR - MissingNo.]

==References==
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{{GlitchPkmn}}
{{Project Glitchdex notice}}

[[Category:Glitch Pokémon]]
[[Category:Glitches]]

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[[es:MissingNo.]]
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[[ja:けつばん]]
[[pl:Missingno.]]
[[pt:Missingno (pokémon)]]

Talk:In-game trade

2010-12-21T06:56:45Z

Stag019:

==Nicknames==
IMO, the nicknames section kind of makes things look cramped. It also kind of makes the article cross the line between providing useful information and being a triviafest. And the (necessary) all caps sticks out like a sore thumb and makes it look bad. But I'm mostly concerned about the cramping. What do you guys think? - [[User:System Error|System Error]]

:Mmm.. it IS a list of in-game trades however. I would like to know what nickname my Mr Mime is getting, and the cramping problem doesn't show up for me (I'm using a widescreen monitor though).. [[User:TinaTheKirlia|Tina]][[User talk:TinaTheKirlia|The]][[Kirlia (Pokémon)|Kirlia]] ♥ [[Image:281MS.gif]] 01:39, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
::*It's not somuch the fact that it takes up a lot of space as it is...well, actually, that pretty much is what it's about. It has little to do with the size of the screen, though. I am using a 1024x768 resolution, and it still looks bad. Maybe it's just that only one of the sections has the nicknames at the moment, though. - [[User:System Error|System Error]] 01:46, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
::{{U|TTEchidna}} suggested putting the nicks in on [[Talk:Trade]] in May. [[User:Zurqoxn|Zurqoxn]] 01:41, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
:::*Yes, I know. However, I designed the formatting tables for the page in August. Fun fact: I did want to put the nicknames into the tables originally, but I couldn't find a way to do so without making it look bad (plus there was the problem of actually getting them). I also wanted to explain some of them too, but there's not really much to explain about many of them (most are plays on the Pokemon's name or something very obvious), and there's really no place on the page for them, so I scrapped that idea even before the nickname one. [[User:System Error|System Error]] 02:02, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

== A piece of info. ==

When trading (in diamond/pearl and platinum)
-a shiny pokemon: the counterpart received is not shiny.
-the IVs of the pokemon obtained are different so are its base stats.
twistedpokefan.

==Natures?==
I started over with Leafgreen a couple of times, and I noticed that the Pokémon I received always had the same nature. The Nidorino always had a Bold nature, and the Mr. Mime had a Timid nature. Should a column be made for this? [[User:Hoolo|Hoolo]] 14:10, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

==Rick Astley?==
Someone has spammed the page so all pokemon sprites link to Rick Astley(pokemon). {{unsigned|Mattrules161}}
:Yeah, {{u|BulbaBot}} hijacked TTE's account. For the record, the rumors that there will be a Rickroll Forme of Arceus in HGSS are untrue. But seriously, we know what we're doing. There are a number more pages linked like this, but we are plowing through them as fast as we can and linking them to the correct pages. — [[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|THE TROM]] — 10:48, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

== Nidorina♀ and Nidorino♂ ==
Are those gender marks really necessary? I'm talking specifically in the FireRed/LeafGreen section. I mean, all Nidorina are female and all Nidorino are male. [[User:Phantomjunkie|Phantom]]♫[[User talk:Phantomjunkie|Junkie]] 04:52, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, they're necessary. All other gendered Pokémon in that column have them to denote which gender the Pokémon recieved is set to (all handheld games since [[Generation III]] fix the genders of the in-game trades; the only in-game trades post-[[Generation II]] that do not fix genders are those in Pokémon XD: Gale of Darkness, which is the most recent main-series console game). By your reasoning, we wouldn't need that ♀ symbol next to Jynx either since Jynx is a female-only species. --[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 15:47, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
::Actually, yes, that would be my reasoning. IMO, if a Pokémon is only available in one gender, it shouldn't be necessary to denote that on this page. But at the same time, I guess it's easier to have the male and female symbols for every Pokémon, regardless of whether they are only available in one gender or not. --[[User:Phantomjunkie|Phantom]]♫[[User talk:Phantomjunkie|Junkie]] 16:14, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

== "Missing information" for XD ==

The only thing I can see missing is nicknames for Shuckle, Meditite, and Larvitar, and none of them come with nicknames. Unless there's something else to be filled in or the nicknames should be filled in as SHUCKLE etc, then I think XD is done. [[User:Salix|Salix]] 20:04, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
:Cool. XD is done. Now for JpBlue... —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 22:37, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
::Done :3 [[User:Krisi|Krisi]] 13:02, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

== Generation I Trainer IDs ==
In the Generation I games, are the ID numbers of Pokémon obtained in in-game trades fixed or random? If they're always the same, I could fill in the information for Red & Blue. If they're random, that should be noted in the article. --[[User:Minimiscience|Minimiscience]] 19:00, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
:They're probably fixed, but you can test that by soft-resetting. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 20:42, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
::I just traded for the Nidorina on Route 11 in Blue three times, and each time the ID number was different (18959, 15516, and 09320). I'm going to put down that all of the IDs in Red/Green/International Blue are random unless a bigger spade comes along with more information. --[[User:Minimiscience|Minimiscience]] 23:26, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

:::The ID numbers are random in Yellow as well. Done enough in-game trades there to see that firsthand. --[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 00:41, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

== Ability ==

Are the abilities of received Pokémon fixed? For example, does the Voltorb you get for a Krabby in HGSS always have Static (and not Soundproof)? [[User:Sqoon|Sqoon]] 20:22, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
:Quite probably. If the natures (and IVs) are fixed, then I would assume that the abilities are as well. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 06:14, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
::There is a fixed ability {{p|Basurao}} in Generation V, so I would assume that they are usually fixed. I can go through all my games and give the abilities of all my in-game-trade Pokémon that can have two abilities if you want. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 06:17, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Please do. I'll check my Goldenrod {{P|Machop}} when I get it out of the daycare. [[User:Zurqoxn|Zurqoxn]] 03:26, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

{|
|-
!Pokémon
!Nickname
!Ability
|-
!colspan=3|Sapphire
|-
|Corsola
|COROSO
|Natural Cure
|-
|Makuhita
|MAKIT
|Guts
|-
!colspan=3|LeafGreen
|-
|Lickitung
|MARC
|Own Tempo
|-
|Electrode
|ESPHERE
|Static
|-
!colspan=3|Emerald
|-
|Horsea
|SEASOR
|Swift Swim
|-
|Seedot
|DOTS
|Early Bird
|-
!colspan=3|{{tt|Diamond and Platinum|abilities the same between both}}
|-
|Abra
|Kazza
|Synchronize
|-
|Chatot
|Charap
|Tangled Feet
|-
!colspan=3|SoulSilver
|-
|Onix
|Rocky
|Sturdy
|-
|Machop
|Muscle
|Guts
|-
|Voltorb
|Billy
|Static
|-
|Dodrio
|Doris
|Run Away
|-
|Magneton
|Maggie
|Magnet Pull
|}
--[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 12:33, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

== Two things... ==
1. Should the Red & Green / Red & Blue table really have ID and IVs columns if both are always random in the game? Same goes for the ID column for Yellow version. If the randomness of these stats is a crucial piece of information, shouldn't it at least be mentioned elsewhere on the page, and not in the tables themselves?

2. Do trades programmed into the game but are inaccessible by any NPC qualify as notable enough to be on this page? Obviously, they would need to be labeled as such.

I only have information available for the 1st generation, but it is located [http://web.archive.org/web/20080520232230/www.upokecenter.com/games/rby/guides/trades.html here].

^[[User:Stag019|Stag019]] 06:56, 21 December 2010 (UTC)^

Talk:Type chart

2010-12-07T17:00:58Z

Stag019:

Why are Generation I and Generation II type chart separate. Can I combined the two charts into this article? - [[User:Clarky13|'''Clarky''']][[User talk:Clarky13|'''13''']]
:Read the article. Dark and Steel! [[User: Tc26|'''tc''']][[User talk: Tc26|'''2''']][[Special: Contributions/Tc26|'''6''']] 13:09, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
::He means place the two charts in the article, not combine them. '''[[User:Optimatum|<sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Optimatum|Talk]]|[[User:Optimatum/sig/Pikachu|Links]] 13:29, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
:::Yeah, so instead of three different articles, we make one. - [[User:Clarky13|'''Clarky''']][[User talk:Clarky13|'''13''']]
::::I was just coming to suggest putting each on their own page, for easier printing. [[User:HyperHacker|HyperHacker]] 03:04, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

== Dragon attacks not very effective against Fire in Generation I? ==

In the chart, it lists Dragon attacks as being not very effective against Fire Pokémon in Generation I. Has this actually been tested with an "artificial" Dragon-type move in a Generation I game? Thanks. [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 05:31, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

==Dual-Type Mechanics in Generation I==
IIRC, in Generation I, dual-type Pokémon's type mechanics worked differently. If you were a dual-type hit by a move that one of your types was weak against and the other resistant to, instead of balancing out like they did in later generations, they want by just your type-two stat. For example, a Zubat getting hit by Leech Life would take x2 damage because Poison is his second type, and a Bellsprout getting hit by Poison Sting would take 1/2x damage for the same reason. However, this is from pretty far back in my memory. Can anyone confirm? [[User:Schreiber|Schreiber]] 13:49, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
:I'm pretty sure that it worked just like it does in current games (barring the changes to the type chart, that is). The difference was that it displayed "It's super-effective!/It's not very effective..." based on one of the two types, rather than both.--[[User:Purimpopoie|Purimpopoie]] 13:54, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
::It is different in Gen I. At least in Red/Blue. My Venusaur's Razor Leaf was always ineffective against Gyarados. {{unsigned|CitruX}}
:::No, that's only what the game says. The actual effectiveness was still calculated in the same way. In Generation I it may say that Zubat's Leech Life on another Aubat is "Super effective", but in reality Zubat's Poison and Flying types did cancel each other out. [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 17:35, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

How the game determines what message to display is [http://www.dragonflycave.com/experimentation.aspx here], if you scroll down to the "The Type Message Experiment" section. As stated above, this only shows the message, not the actual calculation. [[User:Stag019|Stag019]] 17:00, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
==unique==

so, what type variations HAVENT been done? {{unsigned|DJLO}}
:ElectAbuzzzz has [[User talk:ElectAbuzzzz/Sandbox|a sub page]] for that. Just be aware that that page also takes order of the types into account. <sc>[[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]]</sc> [[User talk:Werdnae|(talk)]] 07:07, 3 September 2010 (UTC)