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Super-ancient Pokémon

2023-01-03T00:43:01Z

RebeccaHeegaard:

[[File:Super-ancient Pokémon.png|thumb|210px|Groudon and Kyogre battle as Rayquaza arrives.]]
[[File:Super-ancient Pokémon 2.png|thumb|210px|The super-ancient Pokémon in their alternative forms in the anime.]]
The '''super-ancient Pokémon''' (Japanese: '''超古代ポケモン''' ''super-ancient Pokémon''), is a term applied to the three ancient [[Legendary Pokémon]] from [[Hoenn]] legend—{{p|Groudon}}, {{p|Kyogre}}, and {{p|Rayquaza}}. This trio has historically been called the '''weather trio''' by fans.

The three Pokémon represent separate elemental spheres, Kyogre having dominion over the {{wp|hydrosphere}}, Groudon over the {{wp|lithosphere}}, and Rayquaza over the {{wp|atmosphere}}. These roles are reflected in their types. The members all have some physiological similarities, with similar symbols on their bodies as well as yellow eyes. The three Pokémon could be references to creatures from Hebrew myth: {{wp|Leviathan}}, a sea monster; {{wp|Behemoth}}, a land beast; and {{wp|Ziz}}, a giant bird.

In their reprised roles in the [[remake]]s of {{game|Ruby and Sapphire|s}}, [[Pokémon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire]], Groudon and Kyogre gained the ability to undergo [[Primal Reversion]] and Rayquaza the ability to [[Mega Evolution|Mega Evolve]]. Primal Reversion is said to be a process whereby the Pokémon return to their original power. Meanwhile, Rayquaza is said to be the first Pokémon to have Mega Evolved.

In their original appearance in Generation III, Groudon, Kyogre, and Rayquaza's {{cat|Abilities with effects on weather conditions|weather-changing}} [[Ability|Abilities]] belonged exclusively to them. Though several non-Legendary Pokémon have other Abilities that can alter the [[weather]], only {{a|Cloud Nine}}'s effect overlaps with the effects of the trio's Abilities (with Rayquaza's {{a|Air Lock}}). Upon undergoing Primal Reversion or Mega Evolution, Groudon, Kyogre, and Rayquaza gain new exclusive Abilities, enhanced versions of their original Abilities.

Though moves such as {{m|Sunny Day}} and {{m|Rain Dance}} have acted just like Groudon's and Kyogre's Abilities since Generation II, causing the weather to change for only five turns, originally, Groudon's and Kyogre's Abilities caused their weather effect for the remainder of the battle or until the weather was changed again in some way. However, Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre's new, enhanced Abilities render it impossible for the weather to be changed by most other means, though the effect lasts only as long as they remain in battle. By contrast, Rayquaza's Ability—which removes the battle effects of any weather on the field, leaving only its visual effect—only lasts as long as Rayquaza remains active, as does Mega Rayquaza's enhanced version of the Ability.

Rayquaza, the [[trio master]], was shown quelling a violent confrontation between the other two Pokémon during the events of {{game|Emerald}}.

==History==
The super-ancient Pokémon's history was first revealed in the [[Hoenn]] [[Generation III]] games and expanded upon in [[Pokémon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire]]. The Draconids tribe kept recorded history of the trio through mural paintings at [[Sky Pillar]].

3,000 years ago, during Hoenn's primal age, the world was overflowing with natural energy. Groudon and Kyogre were born from that natural energy. [[Primal Reversion|Primal]] {{p|Groudon}} and Primal {{p|Kyogre}} fought over that energy in long clashes, creating natural disasters in the process. The Hoenn region was created from these clashes. In the face of their great power, people could do nothing. But {{p|Rayquaza}} intervened, and its power overwhelmed that of the two primal Pokémon, ending their conflict and returning peace to the world.

A thousand years later, a meteoroid hit the earth, creating what would become [[Sootopolis City]]. This impact caused cracks in the ground that unleashed natural energy, causing Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre to battle each other again, threatening to destroy the world in the process. Humans had a collective memory of how Rayquaza saved their race long ago, and their wish for this to happen again combined with the power of the Meteorite allowed Rayquaza to [[Mega Evolution|Mega Evolve]] for the first time and calm the other two Pokémon. Stripped of their primal forms, Groudon and Kyogre entered a deep slumber in their respective homes while Rayquaza returned to the sky.

Sky Pillar was then created by the [[Draconid]]s people to honor and preserve the super-ancient Pokémon's history. They also prepared for the day when Rayquaza would be needed again upon the eventual appearance of the [[Grand Meteor Delta]]. The [[Red Orb]] and [[Blue Orb]] were created in case Groudon and Kyogre returned, with the power to calm down the two of them without the aid of Rayquaza.

==Similar movesets==
The following are the super-ancient Pokémon's level-up movesets from {{g|Scarlet and Violet}}.
{| class="roundy" style="text-align:center; margin:auto; width:auto; background: #00A000; border: 5px solid #2ED42E"
|-
! style="background:#{{emerald color dark}}; {{roundytl|5px}}" | {{color2|{{emerald color light}}|Level|Lv.}}
| style="background:#{{water color light}}" | [[File:382Kyogre.png|100px]][[File:382Kyogre-Primal.png|100px]] {{pcolor|Kyogre|47587e}} {{typecolor|Water}}
| style="background:#{{ground color light}}" | [[File:383Groudon.png|100px]][[File:383Groudon-Primal.png|100px]] {{pcolor|Groudon|49422b}} {{typecolor|Ground}}/{{typecolor|Ground}}{{typecolor|Fire}}
| style="background:#{{dragon color light}}; {{roundytr|5px}}" | [[File:384Rayquaza.png|100px]][[File:384Rayquaza-Mega.png|100px]] {{pcolor|Rayquaza|322661}} {{typecolor|Dragon}}{{typecolor|Flying}}
|-
| rowspan="5" style="text-align:right; background:#{{emerald color dark}}" | {{color|2ED42E|1}}
| style="background:#{{water color light}}" | '''{{mcolor|Origin Pulse|{{water color dark}}}}'''
| style="background:#{{ground color light}}" | '''{{mcolor|Precipice Blades|{{ground color dark}}}}'''
| style="background:#{{flying color light}}" | '''{{mcolor|Dragon Ascent|{{flying color dark}}}}'''
|-
| colspan="3" style="background:#{{rock color light}}" | {{mcolor|Ancient Power|{{rock color dark}}}}
|-
| style="background:#{{water color light}}" | '''{{mcolor|Water Pulse|{{water color dark}}}}'''
| style="background:#{{ground color light}}" | '''{{mcolor|Mud Shot|{{ground color dark}}}}'''
| style="background:#{{dragon color light}}" | '''{{mcolor|Twister|{{dragon color dark}}}}'''
|-
| style="background:#{{normal color light}}" | {{mcolor|Body Slam|{{normal color dark}}}}
| style="background:#{{fire color light}}" | '''''{{mcolor|Lava Plume|{{fire color dark}}}}'''''
| style="background:#{{flying color light}}" | '''{{mcolor|Air Slash|{{flying color dark}}}}'''
|-
| colspan="3" style="background:#{{normal color light}}" | ''{{mcolor|Scary Face|{{normal color dark}}}}''
|-
| style="text-align:right; background:#{{emerald color dark}}" | {{color|2ED42E|9}}
| style="background:#{{water color light}}" | '''{{mcolor|Aqua Tail|{{water color dark}}}}'''
| style="background:#{{ground color light}}" | '''{{mcolor|Earth Power|{{ground color dark}}}}'''
| style="background:#{{dark color light}}" | {{mcolor|Crunch|{{dark color dark}}}}
|-
| style="text-align:right; background:#{{emerald color dark}}" | {{color|2ED42E|18}}
| style="background:#{{psychic color light}}" | ''{{mcolor|Calm Mind|{{psychic color dark}}}}''
| style="background:#{{fighting color light}}" | ''{{mcolor|Bulk Up|{{fighting color dark}}}}''
| style="background:#{{dragon color light}}" | ''{{mcolor|Dragon Dance|{{dragon color dark}}}}''
|-
| style="text-align:right; background:#{{emerald color dark}}" | {{color|2ED42E|27}}
| style="background:#{{water color light}}" | '''{{mcolor|Muddy Water|{{water color dark}}}}'''
| style="background:#{{ground color light}}" | '''{{mcolor|Earthquake|{{ground color dark}}}}'''
| style="background:#{{normal color light}}" | {{mcolor|Extreme Speed|{{flying color dark}}}}
|-
| style="text-align:right; background:#{{emerald color dark}}" | {{color|2ED42E|36}}
| style="background:#{{ice color light}}" | {{mcolor|Ice Beam|{{ice color dark}}}}
| style="background:#{{fighting color light}}" | {{mcolor|Hammer Arm|{{fighting color dark}}}}
| style="background:#{{dragon color light}}" | '''{{mcolor|Dragon Pulse|{{dragon color dark}}}}'''
|-
| style="text-align:right; background:#{{emerald color dark}}" | {{color|2ED42E|45}}
| style="background:#{{ice color light}}" | {{mcolor|Sheer Cold|{{ice color dark}}}}
| style="background:#{{ground color light}}" | {{mcolor|Fissure|{{ground color dark}}}}
| style="background:#{{normal color light}}" | {{mcolor|Hyper Voice|{{normal color dark}}}}
|-
| style="text-align:right; background:#{{emerald color dark}}" | {{color|2ED42E|54}}
| style="background:#{{water color light}}" | ''{{mcolor|Aqua Ring|{{water color dark}}}}''
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{psychic color light}}" | ''{{mcolor|Rest|{{psychic color dark}}}}''
|-
| style="text-align:right; background:#{{emerald color dark}}" | {{color|2ED42E|63}}
|
|
| style="background:#{{flying color light}}" | '''{{mcolor|Fly|{{flying color dark}}}}'''
|-
| style="text-align:right; background:#{{emerald color dark}}" | {{color|2ED42E|72}}
| style="background:#{{water color light}}" | '''{{mcolor|Hydro Pump|{{water color dark}}}}'''
| style="background:#{{fire color light}}" | '''''{{mcolor|Fire Blast|{{fire color dark}}}}'''''
| style="background:#{{flying color light}}" | '''{{mcolor|Hurricane|{{flying color dark}}}}'''
|-
| style="text-align:right; background:#{{emerald color dark}}" | {{color|2ED42E|81}}
| style="background:#{{normal color light}}" | {{mcolor|Double-Edge|{{normal color dark}}}}
| style="background:#{{grass color light}}" | {{mcolor|Solar Beam|{{grass color dark}}}}
| style="background:#{{dragon color light}}" | '''{{mcolor|Outrage|{{dragon color dark}}}}'''
|-
| style="text-align:right; background:#{{emerald color dark}}" | {{color|2ED42E|90}}
| style="background:#{{water color light}}" | '''{{mcolor|Water Spout|{{water color dark}}}}'''
| style="background:#{{fire color light}}" | '''''{{mcolor|Eruption|{{fire color dark}}}}'''''
| style="background:#{{normal color light}}" | {{mcolor|Hyper Beam|{{normal color dark}}}}
|-
| colspan="4" style="background:#{{emerald color dark}}; color: #{{emerald color light}}; {{roundybottom|5px}}"| Moves in '''bold''' are {{color2|2ED42E|Same-type attack bonus|STAB}}. Moves in ''italics'' do no damage. Moves in '''''bold italics''''' are only STAB for Primal Groudon, which is not present in Scarlet and Violet.
|}{{-}}

==Base stat comparison==
{{triostats|emerald|382|Kyogre|water|100|100|90|150|140|90|383|Groudon|ground|100|150|140|100|90|90|384|Rayquaza|dragon|105|150|90|150|90|95}}

===Primal/Mega Evolved forms===
{{triostats|emerald|382|Kyogre|form1=-Primal|water|100|150|90|180|160|90|383|Groudon|form2=-Primal|ground|100|180|160|150|90|90|384|Rayquaza|form3=-Mega|dragon|105|180|100|180|100|115}}

==In the games==
[[File:Super-ancient Pokémon cutscene.png|frame|Rayquaza confronting Kyogre and Groudon in a cutscene in Emerald.]]
===Pokémon Ruby and Sapphire===
In these games, both Kyogre and Groudon appear in the [[Cave of Origin]] in their respective games, and after entering the [[Hall of Fame]], the {{player}} can encounter Rayquaza at rest on the topmost floor of the [[Sky Pillar]].



===Pokémon Emerald===
In the enhanced version of Ruby and Sapphire, Kyogre and Groudon both appear in alternating caves after entering the Hall of Fame: [[Marine Cave]] (on {{rt|105|Hoenn}}, {{rt|125|Hoenn}}, {{rt|127|Hoenn}}, or {{rt|129|Hoenn}}) for Kyogre and [[Terra Cave]] (on {{rt|114|Hoenn}}, {{rt|115|Hoenn}}, {{rt|116|Hoenn}}, or {{rt|118|Hoenn}}) for Groudon. Rayquaza appears atop the [[Sky Pillar]] after calming Kyogre and Groudon in [[Sootopolis City]], and is obtainable before entering the Hall of Fame.



===Pokémon HeartGold and SoulSilver===
All three super-ancient Pokémon can be obtained in the [[Embedded Tower]] after {{ga|Red}} is defeated and {{player}} has the [[National Pokédex]], [[Starter Pokémon#Kanto|Kanto starter Pokémon]], and respective [[Colored orbs|Orbs]]. Kyogre is obtainable in HeartGold, and Groudon is obtainable in SoulSilver. Once both a Kyogre from HeartGold and a Groudon from SoulSilver are in one game, the player gets an opportunity to catch Rayquaza.

<gallery>
File:Embedded Tower Kyogre HGSS.png|Kyogre
File:Embedded Tower Groudon HGSS.png|Groudon
File:Embedded Tower Rayquaza HGSS.png|Rayquaza
</gallery>

===Pokémon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire===
In the remakes, both Kyogre and Groudon appear in the [[Cave of Origin]] just like in the originals. However, when the player faces them, they are in their [[Primal Reversion|Primal Forms]]. Rayquaza is obtained during the Delta Episode atop [[Sky Pillar]], which occurs after the player become the Champion and is granted access to Sky Pillar by [[Wallace]]. Rayquaza must be caught when encountered; if the player runs away from it or defeats it, they will have to battle it again until it is caught.

===Pokémon Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon===
In Pokémon Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon, all three members of the super-ancient Pokémon can be encountered in the [[Ultra Space Wilds]] through [[Ultra Warp Ride]]. {{p|Groudon}}{{sup/7|US}} can be encountered in the Cave World through a yellow warp hole. {{p|Kyogre}}{{sup/7|UM}} can be encountered in the Water World through a blue warp hole. {{p|Rayquaza}} can be encountered in the Cliff World through a red warp hole, as long as both Groudon and Kyogre are in the player's party.

===Pokémon Sword and Shield===
In [[The Crown Tundra]] DLC, the super-ancient Pokémon be found at [[Max Lair]] during [[Dynamax Adventure]]s. {{p|Groudon}} can be found in Sword, while {{p|Kyogre}} can be found in Shield; however, the player can get the other Legendary by participating in other players' Dynamax Adventures.

===Pokémon Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl===
In [[Pokémon Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl]], the super-ancient Pokémon can all be encountered at [[Ramanas Park]] after capturing the [[Legendary titans]], [[Legendary beasts]]{{sup/8|BD}}/[[Legendary birds]]{{sup/8|SP}} and [[Eon duo]]. The trio is located at Oceanic Room, Tectonic Room, and Stratospheric Room respectively. Each room needs either Oceanic Slate, Tectonic Slate, or Stratospheric Slate to unlock the encounter.

==In the anime==
[[File:Kyogre Groudon legend.png|thumb|250px|An ancient mural depicting the clash between Groudon and Kyogre]]
All three super-ancient Pokémon have appeared in the {{pkmn|anime}}. {{DL|Kyogre and Groudon (Ruby and Sapphire series)|Kyogre}} and {{DL|Kyogre and Groudon (Ruby and Sapphire series)|Groudon}} both debuted in ''[[AG097|Gaining Groudon]]''. Kyogre had been captured by [[Team Magma]], who was also in possession of the [[Blue Orb]]. Groudon was in [[Team Aqua]]'s possession along with the [[Red Orb]]. The two teams were planning on swapping Groudon and Kyogre, but Kyogre was released by {{tc|Aqua Admin|Team Aqua commander}} [[Shelly]], who had infiltrated Team Magma. [[Archie]] then proceeded to take control of Kyogre using the Red Orb. In the [[AG098|following episode]], Archie threatened to use Kyogre's power to flood the island both teams had met at. At this time the now awakened Groudon came and began to battle with Kyogre. During this time, {{Ash}}, {{ashfr}}, and [[Lance]] managed to snap Archie out of the Red Orb's possession. Now free from the Orbs' possession Kyogre and Groudon retreated into the ocean and a volcano, respectively. {{OBP|Rayquaza|M07}} debuted separately from the other members of its trio. It first appeared in ''[[M07|Destiny Deoxys]]'', where it defended its territory from a {{OBP|Deoxys|M07}}.

In ''[[XYS02|Mega Evolution Special II]]'', [[Super-ancient Pokémon (XY series)#Rayquaza|Rayquaza]] appeared after [[Alain]] and {{Steven}} used their [[Mega Ring]] and [[Key Stone|Mega Stickpin]], respectively, to open one of Hoenn's ancient ruins and reveal the legendary [[Giant Rock]]. The energy emitted by the rock not only brought Rayquaza to the ruins, but it also awoke [[Super-ancient Pokémon (XY series)#Groudon|Groudon]] and [[Super-ancient Pokémon (XY series)#Kyogre|Kyogre]] from their slumbers. Rayquaza, in a fit of rage, began attacking the people responsible for unlocking the Giant Rock. Seeing that, Alain and Steven sent out {{TP|Alain|Charizard}} and {{TP|Steven|Metagross}} to stop the {{pkmn|category|Sky High Pokémon}}, but to no avail. Rayquaza destroyed the ruins by using {{m|Draco Meteor}}, disintegrating the Giant Rock in the process before returning to the ozone layer.

In ''[[XYS03|Mega Evolution Special III]]'', Alain and Steven were monitoring the area around [[Rustboro City]] when they noticed that Groudon had awakened and was seemingly moving towards the coastline. Steven wondered if Kyogre could also appear, and just at that moment, they received footage of the {{pkmn|category|Sea Basin Pokémon}}. Lysandre then commented on the possibility of the [[Pokémon world]] being destroyed, scaring Mairin. After that, Steven explained to her that there is a legend in the [[Hoenn]] [[region]] that has been told since ancient times. According to Steven, the legend says that in the prehistoric era, Primal Groudon expanded the continents and Primal Kyogre expanded the seas. The two [[Legendary Pokémon]] were locked in a fierce struggle to obtain a source of enormous energy. That struggle shook the land and the skies, nearly destroying the world in the process. He also added that some people believe the energy source they were searching for was the Giant Rock.

Steven and Lysandre soon discovered that both Groudon and Kyogre were following an energy similar to that of the Giant Rock. Suspecting the rock would materialize in the place Groudon and Kyogre were headed, Lysandre ordered Alain to protect it from the super-ancient Pokémon. After that, Alain and Steven flew over the area on a plane and, when the two [[Primal Reversion|Primal Pokémon]] started fighting for the source of energy, they sent out their Charizard and Metagross to prevent them from consuming the rock's energy. However, Charizard and Metagross had trouble fighting against the Legendary Pokémon, but their combined efforts protected the Giant Rock long enough for Rayquaza to step in and put an end to the conflict between Groudon and Kyogre, causing them to return to their regular forms. After that, [[Team Flare|Lysandre's employees]] appeared to take away the Giant Rock, blocking its energy and placing it in a submarine. With the rock away, all three super-ancient Pokémon retreated.

Primal Kyogre, Primal Groudon, and a {{Shiny}} Mega Rayquaza all made a major appearance in ''[[M18|Hoopa and The Clash of Ages]]''. Primal Kyogre and Primal Groudon were summoned by a dark entity of {{an|Hoopa}}'s {{DL|List of Pokémon with form differences|Hoopa|Unbound}} form, along with the [[creation trio]] and {{p|Kyurem}}, and were controlled by the evil shadow in order to terrorize [[Dahara City]]. It was revealed that long ago, Kyogre and Groudon engaged in a battle with Hoopa in its Unbound form to entertain the citizens of Dahara City, but this ended when Hoopa's power was sealed by [[Ghris]]. Mega Rayquaza was summoned by Hoopa along with {{p|Latias}} and {{p|Latios}} in order to stop the entity of Hoopa's Unbound form from terrorizing Dahara City.

==In the manga==
===Pokémon Adventures===
{{main|Super-ancient Pokémon (Adventures)}}
All three super-ancient Pokémon have appeared in Pokémon Adventures. Archie and Maxie took control of Kyogre and Groudon respectively, and Norman awakened Rayquaza in order to calm the two.

==Artwork==
<gallery perrow="5">
Masters Villain Arc Hoenn Part 1 artwork.png | Super Ancient Pokémon artwork for [[Pokémon Masters EX]] Villain Arc Hoenn (Part 1) artwork
Masters Villain Arc Hoenn Part 2 artwork.png | Super Ancient Pokémon along with Sygna Suit Steven and Deoxys for Pokémon Masters EX Villain Arc Hoenn (Part 2) artwork
</gallery>

==Trivia==
* The term "super-ancient Pokémon" has previously been attributed to [[Fossil]] Pokémon in the Japanese anime.
* The [[List of Pokémon by color|colors]] of the three super-ancient Pokémon are the {{wp|RGB color model|additive primary colors of light}}.
* The super-ancient Pokémon are the only [[Legendary trio]] in which all of its members are in different [[List of Pokémon by habitat|habitats]] — {{p|Kyogre}} is in the Sea habitat, {{p|Groudon}} is in the Rough-Terrain habitat, and {{p|Rayquaza}} is in the Rare Habitat.

==In other languages==
{{langtable|color={{emerald color}}|bordercolor={{emerald color dark}}
|ja=超古代ポケモン ''{{tt|Chō kodai Pokémon|Super ancient Pokémon}}''
|zh_cmn=超古代宝可梦 ''{{tt|Chāo gǔdài Pokémon|Super ancient Pokémon}}''
|fr=Pokémon ancestraux
|de=Wetter-Legenden
|it=Pokémon millenari
|ko=초 고대포켓몬 ''{{tt|Cho godae Pokémon|Super ancient Pokémon}}''
|pt_br=Pokémon de tempos imemoriais
|es=Pokémon ancestrales
|vi=Pokémon siêu cổ đại đã
}}

{{-}}
{{Legendary trios}}

[[de:Wetter-Legenden]]
[[es:Trío creador]]
[[fr:Pokémon ancestraux]]
[[it:Trio Meteo]]
[[ja:超古代ポケモン]]
[[zh:超古代宝可梦]]

Talk:List of Pokémon by evolutionary line

2022-02-12T00:14:38Z

RebeccaHeegaard: /* Kantonian Slowking? */ new section

==Zangoose and Seviper==
Should Zangoose & Seviper really be listed as one family? They're not related in any way, on the contrary - they're enemies. It's not the same as listing Tauros & Miltank or Volbeat & Illumise... Thoughts? --[[User:ElectAbuzzzz|ElectAbuzzzz]] 09:07, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
*I had noticed that before, and was considering changing it myself. I'm pretty sure that there's no way they're related. Arch rivals, yes, but the same family, no. [[User:Drapion|Drapion]] 14:24, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
:Eh, true, I guess. They're not really related as much as they are rivals. --'''[[User:TTEchidna|T]][[User talk:TTEchidna|T]][[wp:Echidna|Echidna]]''' 20:13, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

== Family of One ==

Can I just say right now that it's stupid to call a family with one member a family. I suggest we just drop the word "Family" for all families of one, like so:
{| {{Bluetable|background: white; margin: auto;}} width=704px
|- style="background: #ccf;"
! colspan="2" | Lowest
! Trigger
! colspan="2" | Middle
! Trigger
! colspan="2" | Highest
|- style="background: #ccf;"
! colspan="8" | Skarmory
|-

|{{p|Skarmory}}
| colspan="6" style="background: #ddf;" | 
|}
[[User:Drapion|Drapion]] 03:33, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
:Eh, I personally kept those for the future scenario where they get additional members. '''[[User:TTEchidna|T]][[User talk:TTEchidna|T]][[wp:Echidna|Echidna]]''' 09:32, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

== Tauros and Miltank ==

Should they be a family? I'm 99% sure that their relation is more than just fan speculation and was in an official guide or something like that, but I can't remember.--[[User:Shinin|Shinin]] 17:02, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

:Yes, but these are '''evolution''' families.--[[User:Starlight the ampharos|Starlight the ampharos]] 00:21, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

== Ditto ==

I made an account specificly because of this. Somebody forgot everyone's favorite pink gooey friend Ditto which should be in between Lapras and Eevee. --[[User:KenStabler12|KenStabler12]] 05:49, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
:Yes... that is quite major. Thank you~ [[User:Umeko|梅子]][[User talk:Umeko|❄]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|❅]] 05:52, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

== Region-based headings ==

Is calling the families "Kanto-based", "Johto Based" etc, wouldn't it make more sense to list the headings as "Generation I-introduced families" instead? Especially considering that Gen II Pokemon like Houndour and Houndoom aren't actually found in Johto, or that the Roselia and Chimecho families are more common in Sinnoh than they are in Hoenn. --{{u|Thingamajig257}} 10:54, 4th February, 2010

== Solrock and Lunatone ==

I don't see why Plusle and Minun are counted as one family while these two aren't. --[[User:Thingamajig257|Thingamajig257]] 13:36, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

== Nidoran family & EP sorting ==

I can't figure out how to do it. The Nidoran lines should be in a shared "Nidoran family"
Especially since both Nidoran can hatch from Nidoran female eggs, like it's the case with Illumise.

Oh and I have an idea.
There are 3 columns (1->2->3)
Wouldn't it make sense if pokemon would be sorted by amount of Effort points?
For example, this way,
Lapras(2EP) would be in the middle column like Shelgon,
Farfetch'd(1EP) would still be in the 1st column like Bagon,
while Lugia(3EP) would be in the last column, like Salamence.

An obvious example are Mantine and Skarmory. Right now Skarmory is above Mantyke. With the above sorting, Skarmory would be above Mantine since they both give 2 Effort Points.
--[[User:Saiph charon|Saiph charon]] 15:10, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

The following pokemon's places would change with this:

Lickitung & Lickilicky (2 & 3), Kangaskhan (2), Lapras (2), Pinsir (2), Tauros (2), Aerodactyl (2), Articuno (3), Zapdos (3), Moltres (3), Mewtwo (3), Mew (3), Unown (2, lol), Girafarig (2), Shuckle (2), Heracross (2), Corsola (2), Skarmory (2), Miltank (2), Raikou (3), Entei (3), Suicune (3), Lugia (3), Ho-oh (3), Celebi (3), Sableye (2), Mawile (2), Torkoal (2), Zangoose (2), Seviper (2), Solrock (2), Lunatone (2), Tropius (2), Absol (2), Relicanth (2), Regirock (3), Regice (3), Registeel (3), Latias (3), Latios (3), Kyogre (3), Groudon (3), Rayquaza (3), Jirachi (3), Deoxys (3), Spiritomb (2), Carnivine (2), Rotom (2), Uxie (3), Mesprit (3), Azelf (3), Dialga (3), Palkia (3), Heatran (3), Regigigas (3), Giratina (3), Cresselia (3), Manaphy (3), Darkrai (3), Shaymin (3), Arceus (3)--[[User:Saiph charon|Saiph charon]] 15:31, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

The reason Nidoran doesn't have a shared family is because the Group version of the lop/evo template doens't allow for evolutions. --[[User:Goldenpelt|Goldenpelt]] 22:35, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

== Frillish ==

Shouldn't Frillish's fermale form be added to the Frillish Family? Likewise with Unfezant?
I know it's only a difference in appearance between the male and female, but at the same time, they are different members of the same family.. Opinions? --[[User:Beyondashadow|Beyondashadow]] 03:11, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

== Not an evolution family! ==

First of all, though admittedly similar, Plusle and Minun are not an Evolution family, neither are Throh or Sawk. They are not gender couterparts and they do not share a basic form. Also if we are to carry on including Sawk and Throh in the same family, isn't calling it the "Geki" family misleading? Yes their Japanese names share the element but to English speakers it means nothing. Thanks [[User:Anaserfrdrews12798|Anaserfrdrews12798]] 15:23, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

:This has been brought up above - it is currently IMHO arbitrary and not remotely factual, but someone would probably revert it if changed. Why Plusle+Minun and Throh+Sawk are an evolution family but not say other counterparts like Mawile+Sableye, Lunatone+Solrock and Heatmor+Durant is utterly beyond my comprehension. [[User:Shiny Porygon|Shiny Porygon]] 16:45, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
::I agree with everything here, as do a few other staff members, so I've changed it. If anyone disagrees, they'd better have a really good argument. [[Typhlosion (Pokémon)|★]][[User:Jo The Marten|Jo the Marten]][[Flygon (Pokémon)|★]] [[User_Talk:Jo The Marten|ಠ_ಠ]][[Cilan (anime)|♥]] 17:08, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

== sorting pokemon without 3 stages into columns by amount of EV ==

Anyone know how to move a pokemon 3 or 6 columns in, leaving empty space with background colour before it?

In order to move for example strong single-stage pokemon like Skarmory, Bouffalant etc. into the middle (an indicator for the column is the amount of EV pokemon give, since these range from 1 to 3, always going 1-2-3 on 3 stagers; in the case of Skarmory, it gives 2 EVs just like its counterpart Mantine who got a pre-evolution that gives 1EV, hence they're in different columns currently). It would just make sense (and even make likely candidates to get pre-evolutions easy to spot, which is interesting I thought)--[[User:Saiph charon|Saiph charon]] 18:25, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
:I actually think it looks fine as it is. I'm sure if they get an evolution or pre-evolution in the future they will be moved around. The Pokémon aren't in different columns based on their EV, they are based on the order they go in for their respective evolutionary lines. :) ''[[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen]] [[User talk:Frozen Fennec|Fennec]]'' 18:44, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
::Obviously they would get moved around then, that wasn't my point, it would just be an interesting side-effect; I know they aren't sorted based on EVs. I wouldn't be suggesting it otherwise. The amount of EV a pokemon gives is directly related to its stage in the evolutionary family.--[[User:Saiph charon|Saiph charon]] 21:14, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
:::I think that we should keep the lowest stage on the far left. Also, while EVs are a good indicator of if a Pokémon will get evolutions or pre-evolutions, {{p|Watchog|not all evolved Pokémon give more than 1 EV}}. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 13:51, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
::::Wow that's odd. I wonder how that happened.
There is 1 other line that has weird EVs (Paras 1 -> Parasect 3), but this is a first. Regardless, the 2 exceptions are both obvious about what column they'd fit (unaffected). What I'm suggesting wouldn't make it any less good or correct, and the pre-evolution thing isn't the main reason (they can still simply decide to give something a pre-evo and then improve its EV like happened to Roselia 1->2), its also about adding the feeling of how strong a pokemon is.
If you came to this list and saw the likes of Heracross, Tropius and Skarmory in the middle column, unlike Delibird and Luvdisc who would be in the first, or all the legendaries in the final column, you would immediately understand that these start off as middle stage strong and aren't the average pokemon that you encounter in their weaker forms. It would just feel right. I'm not asking anyone to bother applying this cosmetic change, just point me towards something that will make me figure out more about how this all works with templates and such.--[[User:Saiph charon|Saiph charon]] 22:02, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
:::::I think the best way to list them is simply based on the way they are now, not the way they may be in the future. The list is not about strength, but evolution stage based on the stages they have now. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 13:14, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
::::::I'm not talking about any future, I even said that twice already. Look, Tropius is middle stage strong in the present time, indicated by its stats, and more directly by amount of EV it gives. It directly relates to the stage in the evolution family. This is the only place where this can be shown (and the only place that it should) and does no harm to the info on it.--[[User:Saiph charon|Saiph charon]] 19:51, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
:::::::The list is not, never has been, and never will be about stats or EVs. They are irrelevant to this page. It is about evolutionary families, and when we have one entry because there are fewer entries in that row it should be on the left because the rest of the table is left aligned. It would be aesthetically displeasing to have the alignment scattered. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] [[User talk:Werdnae|(talk)]] 06:36, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
::::::::I fail to see how it would be any more aesthetically displeasing than it is right now, but nevermind then.--[[User:Saiph charon|Saiph charon]] 12:45, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

==Trivia (Maybe)==
If I'm incorrect with this, I'm sorry, I haven't acquired Black or White yet.
However, from what I've seen here, Generation V doesn't expand any pre-existing families, which is something every generation has done before (except generation I for obvious reasons). This would make Generation V more unique and would be worthy of a trivia note. Though, I'm sure I'm just missing someone.[[User:~Polky|~Polky]] 22:55, 2 May 2012 (UTC)
:Actually, that peice of trivia is mentioned on the Generation V page already. ''Generation V is the first generation since Generation I not to introduce any baby Pokémon or cross-generational relatives'' is the text on that page. I don't see any harm mentioning it here if you decide to. [[User:Pokemaster97|--Pokemaster]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|97]] 23:08, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

== Legendaries and the idea of "families" ==

Why are a lot of the legendaries that do not evolve or morph considered in the same family? This brings up the question on what a family is considered here. I believe when talking about a family in Pokemon, we are not talking about who is related in the storyline or the scientific meaning to family, we are talking about physical evolutions or morphs. The legendary birds, etc. should not be considered in the same family as they are completely separate pokemon.

On top of all this, why do we even call them families? Is it because it is just the popular term? They have nothing to do with a family if in essence a Charmander that evolved into a Charmelion is the same exact being. On another note, it would be nice nowadays if Nintendo dropped the idea of saying they have 649+ pokemon when they really have around... I counted 328? The 649 turns a huge amount of people off, I would say it is one of the most complained about matters with the games.
--[[User:Gheta|Gheta]] 17:00, 07 June 2012 (UTC)

==Possibly needs redirect?==
This page does not redirect from "List of Pokemon by evolution family". Seems like a bit of an inconsistency. --[[User:Cedrickc|Cedrickc]] ([[User talk:Cedrickc|talk]]) 07:06, 17 May 2013 (UTC)
:[[List of pokemon by evolution family]] does, and sincethe search bar is case insensitive it has the same effect. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 12:00, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

==Gen VI==

It is known that {{p|Talonflame}} evolves from {{P|Fletchling}}. Where should that be added? - ''unsigned comment from {{u|Spyspotter}} ([[User talk:Spyspotter|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Spyspotter|contribs]]) '' 00:41, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

== Milktank/Tauros - Lunatone/Solrock - Minun/Plusle ==

If Nidoran(M) and Nidoran(F), and if Volbeat/Illumise are in same family, Milktank have to be in Taurus family too (Milktank is a female Tauros).

If there is Legendary families, such Mew family, Legendary Birds family, etc. Lunatone and Solrock, and Minun and Plusle that are related have to be too. {{unsigned|Shideravan}}
:Nidorans and Volbeat/Illumise can breed each other. Tauros/Miltank, Lunatone/Solrock, and Plusle/Minun cannot, and I think the legendary families should not exist (since, y'know, {{tt|by definition|except Mega Mewtwo, apparently}} legendaries do not evolve). [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 22:38, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

== Pokémon Families ==

I think it's not right to call this article "List of Pokémon by evolution family" once this families aren't defined only by the evolutions, but by other factors too, just like breeding. So the page should be moved for "List of Pokémon Families" or another appropriate title. [[User:Suic12-|Suic12-]] ([[User talk:Suic12-|talk]]) 23:40, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

:As I understand it, these families actually '''are''' only define by evolutions, which includes breeding and factors which make pokémon evolve. — [[User:Molt|Molt]] ([[User talk:Molt|talk]]) 11:51, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

:I think that the name should instead be "List of Pokémon by evolutionary family" as the adjective form of evolution makes more sense in this context than the noun form. [[User:Zombiedude347|Zombiedude347]] ([[User talk:Zombiedude347|talk]]) 23:34, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

== Generation indicators ==

I would really like to be able to see which pokemon are from which generation in this table. This would be very helpful for people who are not playing the newest generations and although the region groups mostly do this, there are still some families that are only partially available in some versions, e.g. in FireRed Lickitung exists, Lickilicky doesn't. What I effectively have in mind is a mix between this page and the [[List of Pokémon with cross-generational evolutions]]. — [[User:Molt|Molt]] ([[User talk:Molt|talk]]) 12:01, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
:This page does its job quite well as is. Generation does not ''need'' to be part of that job. That'd only be cluttering it up. Besides, at worst, it should only take ''one'' such misconception (like the person tried to evolve Lickitung in FRLG) before they investigate further and figure out things aren't as they thought. I think that's not too burdensome. (I also think it wouldn't be a problem for most people in the first place.) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 14:43, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
::This article is not about which Generation some Pokemon were introduced in, this is about which Pokemon are part of which family. Thus, Generation doesn't really play a part here. One would also not go here to check if Lickitung can evolve into Lickilicky in FRLG, they would go to Lickitung's page.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 14:57, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
:::I know it's not the job of this page, but this is where one lands when searching for an evolution chart. @Tiddlywinks: I was one of those who had to figure out that things weren't as I thought, that's why I am now looking for a page showing both, the evolution families '''and''' the generation of each pokémon, because with the amount of pokémon technically available in FRLG it '''does''' become quite burdensome... at least for me, but maybe I'm just missing something. However, Google searches for "pokemon evolution chart/list/table by generation" only bring you here. I just thought it would be a good idea to discuss this before creating a new page which basically is a copy of this one with a bit more information... — [[User:Molt|Molt]] ([[User talk:Molt|talk]]) 16:42, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
::::If you've found the [[List of Pokémon with cross-generational evolutions]], I'm not sure what's hard... You know what generation you're in, you can see on that page what generation any Pokemon (in a cross-gen family) belongs to...just don't try to evolve the ones on that page that are past your generation. Finding that page should be the hardest thing about the problem you're talking about. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 03:03, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

== Adding Mega's? ==

Mega Evolutions are a type of evolution. They're also extremely similar to Forms/Formes. Formes are shown here, Forms are shown here, and evolutions are shown here. I suggest Mega-Evolutions be added as well. --[[User:BlackButterfree|BlackButterfree]] ([[User talk:BlackButterfree|talk]]) 03:56, 20 July 2014 (UTC)
:Megas are not a true evolution. In any case, Darmanitan's Zen Mode is not shown either. Like Darmanitan's Zen Mode, Mega forms only appear in battles. That means, IMO, it's not something that should or needs to be included on this page. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 04:16, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

== Outdated trivia ==

One of the trivia points at the bottom states "Generation V is the only generation not to introduce cross-generational evolutionary relatives" but wouldn't that be false now that Gen 6 has been released? Either the trivia needs to be removed, or changed to "Generation V was the first generation not to introduce cross-generational evolutionary relatives."{{unsigned|Sylveon}}
:Sylveon is a cross generational evolutionary relative.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 09:27, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

==Trivia wording==
I think the way one of the trivia points is worded implies something incorrect. "By far, most three-stage evolution families were introduced in Generation I, with 27 such families having their roots there." To me, this suggests that ''most'' of the three-stage families that exist were introduced in Gen I, but depending on the definition of "most," this isn't true. I would think most means over half, and 27 is nowhere near half of 81 (which is what I counted for three-stage Pokemon--even if I was a little off, it's still not half). I don't know if this is really making sense, but I think it's wrong to say that "most" were introduced in Gen I when it's only around a third. I figured we should change it to say that Gen I introduced more that any other Generation, but that was reverted. In all fairness, Tiddlywinks may have had a point in reverting me, but I didn't see what it was. I really need some sleep though so I'll come back in the morning{{tt|.|And maybe after some rest I'll realize that I'm just babbling some nonsense :P}} '''[[User:Slimey01|slimey]][[User talk:Slimey01|01]]''' 04:26, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
:You're right about 27 of 81 not being "most," but Tiddlywinks' edit summary also correctly points out that your rewording implied that all of those lines were fully three stages at the time they were introduced, which is also wrong. At the risk of sounding overly jargon-y, I think the correction that best preserves the current wording would be simply to change ''most'' to ''a plurality of''. I'll go ahead and make that change now. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 04:58, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
::Thank you for the edit! I wasn't sure of a good way to reword it. '''[[User:Slimey01|slimey]][[User talk:Slimey01|01]]''' 13:35, 11 June 2016 (UTC)

== A suggestion, not for now but for the future ==

I know we've had some controversy in the past about whether to group unrelated but similar Pokémon together (such as Throh and Sawk), and in fact I'd railed heavily against that idea on the grounds that they are not related by ''evolution'' and this is a page of ''evolutionary'' families. Well, at the E3 Pokemon presentation today, the translator said the Pokédex would group each Pokémon with its evolutions '''''or other similar Pokémon'''''. I know this is very early, but I just want to mention it so this idea is not forgotten — if this is correct and not a translation error, perhaps when Sun/Moon comes out, it would be good to move this page to a more neutral title (removing/substituting "evolution" in some way), and grouping the Pokémon by the groups canonically listed in the Pokédex. That way we would have a page more firmly grounded in canon rather than arbitrarily deciding that evolution constitutes a "family" and other similarities don't. Again, certainly not anything to worry about yet — just something I wanted to bring up so I don't forget about it later. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 17:31, 14 June 2016 (UTC)
:Depending on how formally they do or don't organize it, I think it might also be possible to just include the "similar" variety by way of some sort of special note in this list. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 21:35, 14 June 2016 (UTC)

== 112 or 113 Pokémon that do not evolve in Gen VI? ==

According to this page, there are 113 Pokémon that do not evolve in Gen VI. According to the category, [[:Category:Pokémon that are not part of an evolutionary line]], there are 112 Pokémon that do not evolve. Is there an explanation for the count being off or is it an error? --[[User:Super goku|Super goku]] ([[User talk:Super goku|talk]]) 01:17, 10 October 2016 (UTC)
:Besides [[User:Iml908/Furfrou]], the category was missing {{p|Unown}} and {{p|Arceus}}, which I've just added. Neither count appears to include {{p|Phione}} or {{p|Manaphy}}, which don't evolve, since we treat them as an evolutionary line. --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 02:08, 10 October 2016 (UTC)

== Inclusion of Alola Forms ==

I think that in this section, and in "branched eolutions" and "cross-generation", it would be a good idee to include Alola forms as if it was another Pokémon. For the Pikachu family, we would have Pichu, then Pikachu and after, Raichu and Alola Raichu.--[[User:Anubis91330|Anubis91330]] 09:12, 16 October 2016 (UTC)
:Our policy has always been very firmly that forms and Megas do not count as "another Pokémon," so I think it would be self-contradictory to start doing it now with Alola Forms. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 15:36, 16 October 2016 (UTC)

== Professor Rowan trivium ==

With the addition of several ambiguous groups this generation (the guardian deities, Ultra Beasts and Type:Null and Silvally) — not to mention the split between Legendary and Mythical Pokemon that wasn't accounted for before — this trivium is becoming extremely overcomplicated for very little benefit to my eyes. We can't even use any easy shorthand for the groups we're excluding with a word like "special Pokemon" because that's [[special Pokémon|already used in canon]] for a different thing, so I had to make up the term "ordinary Pokemon" as shorthand for "everything that's not Legendary/Mythical/tapu/UB/Type:Null/Silvally". At this point, I think this trivium is just more trouble than it's worth. Does anyone have an actual reason we need to have it at all? [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 03:29, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

:Yeah, as the person who tried to do the math for a Gen VII update, I feel it's getting a bit complicated on what counts anymore. Still I'd recommend keeping at least some (but maybe not all) aspects of "Rowan said this, but it was more like this when Gen 4 came out and it's now like this in Gen 7." Also, with this weird category, I'd definitely count Legends and Myths, and probably Tapus and UBs, but ''would'' you count Type: Null and Silvally in this weird "Legendithical" group? [[User:Paintspotinfez|Paintspotinfez]] ([[User talk:Paintspotinfez|talk]]) 03:45, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

:: Also, Pumpkinking0192, how'd you get certified to make a userpage? We both started editing real pages in the mainspace in around December, and I've had my account since February. Any tips to be able to make mine? [[User:Paintspotinfez|Paintspotinfez]] ([[User talk:Paintspotinfez|talk]]) 03:46, 22 December 2016 (UTC)
:::The tapus, UBs and Type:Null/Silvally all share the same Pokedex background that seems to be implied to signify a "lower tier" of Legendary/Mythical-esque Pokemon, but there's not an official term for it yet so we have to list them all separately, unfortunately. But since they're all in that "lower tier", I'd say they all need to count together. As for the userspace, if you're looking at my user contributions page, you may want to click "view oldest" — I've actually been editing since May 2012. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 03:52, 22 December 2016 (UTC)
::::Since we now have Legendary Pokémon that do evolve, I think there isn't really a good reason to exclude them anymore. While that does achieve Rowan's number, nothing about his statement gives me any reason to exclude Legendary Pokémon. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 08:26, 22 December 2016 (UTC)
:::::Ah! That's a good solution. Thank you for suggesting it! [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 16:43, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

== Meltan and Melmetal ==

How do we put {{p|Meltan}} and {{p|Melmetal}} in this list? Because, so far, the only way to evolve Meltan to Melmetal is by feeding it candies in [[Pokémon GO]]. --[[User:SilSinn9801|''SilSinn'']] ([[TID]]s: '''768426[[Pokémon Sun|S]]''', '''123446[[Pokémon Ultra Moon|UM]]''') ([[User talk:SilSinn9801|talk]]) 09:47, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
:Added. --[[User:Spriteit|Spriteit]] ([[User talk:Spriteit|talk]]) 12:43, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

== Position of Meltan & Melmetal ==

Currently, Meltan & Melmetal are at the end of the Kanto table. However, the introduction to the article says that families are sorted by the National Dex number of their earliest released stage. Therefore, the family should be between Zeraora and Grookey. I would have just done this, but I wasn't sure at all whether they'd go into the Alola table or the Galar table, as they're not from either of those regions. However, as they were released in Generation VII, I guess they should go into the Alola table? [[User:Mr. Flix|- MxFlix]] ([[User talk:Mr. Flix|talk]]) 22:14, 12 February 2020 (UTC)
:HOME groups them in a separate category entirely, so I've done the same on this page. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 13:07, 15 February 2020 (UTC)

== Table name ==

Currently, the tables are titled "[Region]-based evolution families". However, as some Pokémon (especially of the ones introduced in Generation II) were not found in the region that was introduced in their Generation, e.g. Houndour & Meltan, I feel like it would make much more sense to change that to "Generation [Nr.]-based evolution families". [[User:Mr. Flix|- MxFlix]] ([[User talk:Mr. Flix|talk]]) 22:19, 12 February 2020 (UTC)
:Official sources (such as HOME and Pokémon GO) group Pokémon by region, not generation, so I think doing so on this page also makes sense. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 13:07, 15 February 2020 (UTC)

== Mime Jr. ==

So I don't see any reason for the Mr. Mime family to be separated from the Galarian Mr. Mime family. For Raichu, Exeggutor, Marowak, and Weezing, they are all included in the same family. But for the Mr. Mime family, they are separated even though evolving a Mime Jr. is functionally the same as evolving a Pikachu, Exeggcute, Cubone, or Koffing; it's the same method for each form, it just varies based on the region. There are two differences here: one is that one of Mime Jr.'s potential evolutions has a further evolution, Mr. Rime. But I don't see why that should separate them into separate families. The other is that Mime Jr. is "optional" - it is a Baby Pokémon obtained by breeding its parent with the Odd Incense, otherwise you'll breed a Mr. Mime (according to the rules of breeding regional forms). Nonetheless, they still can be in the same family, as you could have a Mime Jr. in, say, Alola, and evolve it into a Kantonian Mr. Mime, or you have the option of transferring it to Galar and evolving it into a Galarian Mr. Mime, and perhaps into a Mr. Rime. It's the same idea as the others, so why the separation? [[User:MarioMiner|MarioMiner]] ([[User talk:MarioMiner|talk]]) 21:16, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
:You're right. Problem is, someone didn't predict unequal evolutionary line and we need an admin to fix the template. I would also suggest adding eggs to connect families like Nidoran's.--'''[[User:Team Rocket Grunt|Rocket Grunt]] ([[User talk:Team Rocket Grunt|Report To Me]])''' 11:12, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

== Regional forms connected via breeding ==

According to the page [[regional form]], when you breed in a region, offspring take on the form corresponding to the region in which it was bred. That makes them part of the same family for the purpose of this list. Look at how the list handles the nidoran line and volbeat/illumise, which are similarly related through breeding but not through evolution. If you can eventually get a perrserker after starting with two Kanto meowth, they are part of the same family. --[[User:Silent Budgie|Silent Budgie]] ([[User talk:Silent Budgie|talk]]) 15:24, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

== Wyrdeer+Basculegion ==

Should Wyrdeer and Basculegion be added to this even if we don't yet know the evolution method? [[User:Pseudonym|Pseudonym]] ([[User talk:Pseudonym|talk]]) 19:57, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
:We'll wait until the method get revealed, since evolution methods is a big part of this article.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 05:54, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

== Kantonian Slowking? ==

Noticed that regular Slowking is labeled as "Kantonian" on this page, but wouldn't it be Johtonian, since it was first discovered in Johto and not Kanto? [[User:RebeccaHeegaard|RebeccaHeegaard]] ([[User talk:RebeccaHeegaard|talk]]) 00:14, 12 February 2022 (UTC)