Bulbapedia - User contributions [en]

Talk:Catch rate

2014-08-24T16:27:25Z

Pokemonisawesome2: /* Gen V Shake-Break Comment */

The computer science term for "Floor" is, in fact, "int(", which simply truncates the number. "round(" would make a value like 6.9 become 7; "int(" would make it 6. I believe Zhen is correct in this case. ~Evan
:What was that in reference to? - Jshadias
::Zhen's edit and your subsequent reversion, if I read the history right. ~Evan
:::He was just editing it to make it consistent with my other changes. In any case, the after revision is the right-side column. In any case, trunc() and floor() are the same, but int() is ambiguous. It simply means conversion to integer, which could be rounding or truncating. Wish I could get TeX-rendering working... - [[User:Zhen Lin|刘 (劉) 振霖]] 09:40, 12 Feb 2005 (GMT)

== Is this formula accurate? ==

When using the formula

Chance = floor (((( TotalHP * 4 ) - ( CurrentHP * 2 )) * CatchRate ) / TotalHP ) + Status + 1

with Pokémon with high catch rates (ex. Pidgey and Rattata), the formula says that there should be about a 200% chance to catch a Pidgey at 100% HP. But there isn't a 200% chance or even a 100% chance. I caught 5 Pokémon on Route 1 of FireRed without weakening any of them and I used 15 Pokéballs. Despite the sample size, the fact that the Pokémon escaped even once is enough to raise concern about the formula. Any other thoughts on the matter? -Wild Eep

:Experimental data isn't the same as theoretical results. But then again, methinks you might be misinterpreting the results of using this formula. The formula does not return a percentage, it returns a number, and in order to capture a Pokémon, the randomly generated number between 0 and 255 (or possibly a higher number than that, say, 511) has to be below the number you obtain from this formula. But I'm not the game mechanics expert. - [[User:Zhen Lin|振霖]][[User talk:Zhen Lin|T]] 02:16, 25 November 2005 (CST)

Hmm. . . using the formula for any pokémon at any level with full HP and no status ailments with a catch rate of 255 gives an output of 511. Every site I could find has the exact same formula, and they all say the random number is between 0-255. Those that site sources site [[user:Meowth346|Meowth346]] as their source, so maybe he knows, or can find out. [[User:Slim|Slim]] 15:54, 29 November 2005 (CST)

:Indeed, there seems to be something off with either this formula or the listed CatchRates. Trying to catch a Pokemon simply by chucking a normal Pokeball at it (that is, no damage done, no status changes) simplifies as so:

:Chance = floor (Poké Ball * (((( TotalHP * 4 ) - ( CurrentHP * 2 )) * CatchRate ) / TotalHP ) + Status + 1)

:Chance = floor (1 * (((( TotalHP * 4 ) - ( TotalHP * 2 )) * CatchRate ) / TotalHP ) + 0 + 1)

:Chance = floor ((( TotalHP * 2 * CatchRate ) / TotalHP ) + 1)

:Chance = floor (( 2 * CatchRate ) + 1)

:For any CatchRate of 128 or higher, Chance is at least 257. The random number between 0 and 255 this is compared to will always be less than this, and as a result any Pokemon with a CatchRate of 128 or higher should always be caught simply by chucking a Pokeball at it. Yet this does not seem to be the case -- you can't always catch an Abra this way, despite them having a CatchRate of 200. This should give them a Chance of 401, and thus a 100% catch rate. [[User:Wild Eep|Wild Eep]] and [[User:Slim|Slim]] seem to have noticed the same thing. [[User:Opaopa13|Opaopa13]] 05:12, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

::I just noticed something -- note the following line in the article:
:::'''CurrentHP''' is either the wild Pokémon's current HP, or if its current HP is greater than 255, use ''floor ( '''CurrentHP''' / 4)''.
::It doesn't make sense to simply replace '''CurrentHP''' with ''floor ( '''CurrentHP''' / 4)'' -- that would make for a very strange function, where a Pokemon with 256 HP would be easier to catch than one with 68. Replacing all of ''('''CurrentHP''' * 2 )'' just makes the problem worse. This suggests a typographical error somewhere in either the formula or its explanation.

::I had a hunch, and replaced ''(( '''TotalHP''' * 4 ) - ( '''CurrentHP''' * 2 ))'' with ''(( '''TotalHP''' / 4 ) - ( '''CurrentHP''' / 2 ))''. Unfortunately, that's not right either -- according to that forumla, a Pokemon above 50% health will have a negative Chance value and thus can NEVER be caught. We know that is not the case. However, I suspect something along those lines is the solution. Perhaps one of those multiplications is supposed to be a division instead. Is there any healthy chunk of experimental data to look at? [[User:Opaopa13|Opaopa13]] 05:24, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

The sensible thing to do is to ask someone who knows how to use a debugger/disassembler to investigate this. Unfortunately, the only person I know who can do this is pika. - [[User:Zhen Lin|振霖]][[User talk:Zhen Lin|T]] 06:57, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Examining an emulated copy of Pokemon Red, I did, indeed, find it impossible to NOT catch any Rattata or Pidgey I threw a Pokeball at. I was more than ready to believe this formula were true. But, as Opaopa13 said, we know it isn't, because anyone who has played the Red or Blue versions knows Abra is not so easy to catch.

Interestingly, I tried the same thing on a Pidgey in an emulated copy of the Gold version (throwing a ball at it when it was at full health), and failed to capture it until my third try.

I JUST DON'T KNOW WHAT TO BELIEVE! - Pineapple

:It would be easy to explain this if Abra's catch rate was just wrong, but the catch rates must have been data-mined, so that's out. Allow me to be completely speculative here, but perhaps it's something like a rare few Pokemon having an additional chance to escape capture? Or certain catch rates that are influenced by what badges you have? It would be odd to have something like that when the programmers could just alter something's catch rate instead, though...

:Well, we _know_ we get the wrong results for Abra. I'm guessing there was some minor typo somewhere, or else some minor modifier to the formula we aren't aware of.

:On a side-note, I'm still really confused by the "if CurrentHP > 256, use (CurrentHP / 4) instead" thing. I just can't imagine any reason, technical or modelling-wise, where "use CurrentHP = 255" doesn't work just as well or better. Or at least divide by 2! (Pokemon HP never exceeds 1024, right? Thinking in terms of the number of bits it takes to represent these numbers...). [[User:Opaopa13|Opaopa13]] 19:22, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

I think, we should just remove the formula from the page until we can get some authoritative analysis, or otherwise from experimental data. - [[User:Zhen Lin|振霖]][[User talk:Zhen Lin|T]] 06:17, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

I strongly suspect that the only problem with the formula on the site is the 2. I know that's how the old equation simplifies, so the original was probably off as well. 1+INT(B*(2-P)*C+S) makes perfect sense. Then a Pidgey or other Pokemon with a catch rate of 255 is guaranteed to be caught, since at full health and no ailments, you get 256. Any number from 0-255 will be lower than that, so you'll always catch it. On the other hand, a legendary Pokemon with 1/10th of its health left, paralyzed, with an ultra ball thrown an it, is 1+INT(2*1.9*3+5), or 17. 17/256 (since it's a less than roll, not less than or equal to) is about 6.6% (1 in 15). That seems about right, given that it's taken an average of 15-20 ultra balls for me to catch most of the legendaries. The current formula says it would be 28/256, or 10.9% (about 1 in 9), which is definitely not right. Easiest way to test would be to repeatedly try catching something with a catch rate around 120, using a standard ball, and see if it happens about half the time. [[User:Arrkhal|Arrkhal]] 03:50, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

== The correct formula ==

Apparently someone at Smogon found an extremely complex formula on a Japanese website. A good friend of mine simplified it and it seems to be 100% Accurate:

( ( 1 - CurHP * 2 / ( MaxHP * 3 ) ) * Catch * Ball * Status ) / 256

Status:
*1 for Normal
*1.5 for Poisoned, Paralyzed, or Burned
*2 for Asleep or Frozen

Examples:
*A level 2 Rattata, with 13/13 HP, catch rate 255, using a Pokeball. No status effects.
**( ( 1 - 13 * 2 / ( 13 * 3 ) ) * 255 * 1 * 1 ) / 256
**= 0.33203125
**~ 33%
*A level 70 Regigigas, with 1/234 HP, frozen, catch rate 3, using a Dusk ball.
**( ( 1 - 1 * 2 / ( 234 * 3 ) ) * 3 * 4 * 2 ) / 256
**= 0.093482906
**~ 9%

[[User:DanPMK|MK]] 05:51, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
:This does appear to be more reasonable, however, I would like to see this so-called "extremely complex" formula. There may be some rounding going on which affects the precision of the results. - [[User:Zhen Lin|振霖]][[User talk:Zhen Lin|T]] 12:05, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
::The original site had gone down, but thank god for Google cache. [http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:2tdg8lVDQ8wJ:no2.pic.bz/document/ball.html+http://no2.pic.bz/document/ball.html&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us Here]. It appears my friend was a bit exaggerating when he said complex; it's actually just a tad redundant. He reduced it to a simpler form is all. Cheers. [[User:DanPMK|MK]] 08:04, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
:::As I suspected, there is more to it. It seems that the formula result is interpreted in two different ways depending on what the value is. - [[User:Zhen Lin|振霖]][[User talk:Zhen Lin|T]] 12:25, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

== Formula is nowhere near correct ==

I just tried catching a Lv. 13 Feebas at full health (30 HP). I threw three dusk balls at it (while in the cavern, of course), and they all broke. On the fourth try I was able to catch it. It has a catch rate of 255, so according to this formula I have maybe a 400% chance of catching it at full health. Even going by the catch rate alone, I should have had a 100% chance of catching it. This wasn't an atypical situation either. I tried catching a few more before and after this one, and I generally wasn't able to capture them until I weakened them (I caught maybe one or two without hurting it). Once I threw an ultra ball at one, and it immediately broke. I think the pokemon's HP ratio definitely has a lot more to do with catching it than what this formula suggests.

If there are any sources on that other function that someone submitted in here (I don't know how to reply to comments, sorry :<), then that would be really nice. But I tried that equation on the above-mentioned feebas and got (1-(30*2)/(30*3))*255*4*1)/256 (the pokeball page on here says that the dusk ball is 4x in caverns, and Wikipedia says it's twice as good as an ultraball, so I'm going with 4x), which equals 340/256, or 1.328125. This is still above a 100% catch rate on something that seemed like it was maybe 50%. Even going with the assumption that the dusk ball is only 3x better than a pokeball, I still got 255/256, which awfully close to 100%. So unless the dusk ball didn't have its 3x/4x effect (maybe from me fishing in the cavern instead of walking in the cavern?), I don't think this function is true either.

--[[User:Stele007|Stele007]] 18:59, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
:Were you surfing by any chance? There has to be some way to explain this. Feebas is extremely easy to capture regardless. My friend caught several using Quick balls (4x for the first 5 turns) immediately at the start of battle and none of them missed. If you were, perhaps the Dusk balls did not work because of surfing. I know they do work while fishing... [[User:DanPMK|MK]] 06:25, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
:And by several I mean over a dozen. [[User:DanPMK|MK]] 06:28, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

==Safari Zone==

There's something I'd like to ask. In the [[Safari Zone]], you can throw bait and mud in [[Generation IV]]. These are said to make Pokémon easier to catch. However, does anybody know of how EXACTLY do they change the catch rate (Or make them easier to catch somehow)? Thank you. - [[User:JMS|JMS]] 21:27, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
:Actually, I think they alter the percent chance that the Pokémon'll run for it/accuracy of the ball. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]][[User:TTEchidna/GSDS|GSDS!]]''' 22:53, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

::Actually, the equation is posted on the Japanese wikipage for Capture Rate:
::Solve for S (S = Safari)

::S=(Capture Rate×100)÷1275×Rock Compensation÷Food Compensation

::Rock Compensation = Times rock/mud is thrown at Pokémon × 2
::Food Compensation = Times food is thrown at Pokémon × 2

::Then solve for a, which is a special equation for this time around:

::a=(S×1275)÷100

::Just keep in mind that the more mud/rocks you throw, the easier it is to capture, but the easier it is to run away. The more food you throw, the harder it is to capture but it'll stay around longer. - [[User:Gimmetokyo|GimmeTOKYO]]

== Trivia... ==

''The appearances of Pokémon such as Nosepass, Tropius, Carnivine, etc., would suggest that their catch rate is low.''
What the hell?!?!? '''{{Colored link|:User:Origamiguy|ff8000|Lord}} of {{Colored link|:User_talk:Origamiguy|ff8000|Ori}}{{Colored link|Special:Contributions/Origamiguy|ff8000|gami}}''' 18:44, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

:Yeah... I don't know what that means, either. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 18:49, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

::remove it because it makes no sense? i had thought dialga had a low catch rate when i got the game, and it turns out to be 30, quite high for a legendary... '''{{Colored link|:User:Origamiguy|ff8000|Lord}} of {{Colored link|:User_talk:Origamiguy|ff8000|Ori}}{{Colored link|Special:Contributions/Origamiguy|ff8000|gami}}''' 18:50, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
:::I know what it's saying: They look like the kind of Pokémon that would have a lower catch rate than they actually do. That's still based on the player's conjecture and probably not worth noting. --[[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] |[[User talk:Fabu-Vinny|Talk Page]]| 18:54, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

What I believe it was saying is that the rarity of these pokémon would suggest they have a low catch rate, just like one of a kind pokémon do. However, they actually have quite high catch rates. Does this seem right? [[User:Da Rammo|Da Rammo]] 06:34, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

: I put a note in the lede to try to address this last interpretation. [[User:AySz88|AySz88]] 11:50, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

== Easier explanation? ==

I think there should be an easier explanation included in this article, something of a tl;dr section. To me, this is all mathematical mumbo-jumbo, and I commonly fail anything and everything algebraic. I could honestly care less how the game determines how a pokemon is caught, I just know that I need to lower the HP of the wild Pokémon and possibly inflict a status problem on it to catch it. Also, on major thing that's missing from the article is it doesn't explain if a higher number for a catch rate is better or worse. It may be a dumb question to ask (but I don't honestly get it, either) but you quite often have to write for the five-year-old poké-tards that will be here.
:Higher number for catch rate increases likelihood of capture. It's why Mewtwo's is 3. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 04:39, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

My brain hurts... too much math... [[User:Diachronos|Diachronos]] 16:55, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Will you please make this article in a way that actually makes sense? It tells me nothing helpful. [[User:Alakazam 2|Alakazam 2]]
:I agree, a simplified, even if less informative, version of this article would probably be more helpful to a lot more users.[[User:Gastly's mama|Gastly's mama]] 15:36, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

: I tried to write a more accessible way to interpret the formula. Also see Reworking the ''a'' term below.... [[User:AySz88|AySz88]] 11:51, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

== CatchRate Calculator ==

I have written a small catch-rate calculator program. You put in details of the opponent's HP,Max HP, Base CatchRate,status ailment, and choose which ball you are using (along with ball-specific factors), and it tells you the chances of catching the pokemon. Should i include a link on the page? '''{{Colored link|:User:Origamiguy|f80|Lord}} of {{Colored link|:User_talk:Origamiguy|f80|Ori}}{{Colored link|User:Origamiguy/Mudkipz|08f|gami}}''' 12:06, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
:I think so. Where does all this come from anyways? O_O [[User:Sivart345|--Sivart]][[User talk:Sivart345|3]][[Special:Contributions/Sivart345|4]][[User:Firestorm|'''5''']] 01:58, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

== Heavy Ball ==

How does it work into the formula if the ball bonus adds instead of multiplying? Does it add before or after the status bonus? --[[User:Kaoz|Kaoz]] 16:29, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
:Order of operations. Multiplication first. [[User:Ht14|'''''ht''''']][[User talk:Ht14|''14'']] 16:42, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
::Are you sure? Because if it works just like I think you're saying, you just replace the Ball Multiplier with a flat "+30" rate (or whatever technically applies). I calculated the catch rate of Groudon using a Heavy Ball VS a Great Ball, and the Great Ball outperformed the specialty Poké Ball. If that's the case, Heavy Balls are pretty useless.--[[User:Purimpopoie|Purimpopoie]] 13:33, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
:: I doubt that "order of operations" applies here; it's relatively easy to just apply the +30 before the multiplications coding-wise (much like using parenthesis). One would need to look at the game code somehow, probably, to see for certain. [[User:AySz88|AySz88]] 12:07, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

== Luxury or Friendly? ==

Which is more effective? [[User:Ht14|'''''ht''''']][[User talk:Ht14|''14'']] 01:05, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
:it depends, i know squat about the catch rate, but i do know the luxury ball increases how fast the pokemon's friendship raises while the friendly(?) ball gives an immediate boost... by how much i'm not quite sure. - [[User:Geomexis|Geomexis]] 12:59, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
::Luxury Balls increase the rate at which your pokemon becomes friendly from actions as outlined in the [[Happiness]] article. Friend Balls automatically set the pokemon's happiness to 200 (instead of the usual 70) when caught. Both poke balls have a catch rate of 1x. Max happiness is 255 and happiness-based evolutions happen at 220+ so usually the Friend Ball will get you there quickly for cheap. ~[[User:mjblink|mjblink]]{{Unsigned|mjblink}}

== Reworking the ''a'' term ==

In every location in this article that I can tell, it would be clearer if ''a'' were already divided by 255, i.e. substituting ''a''/255 = ''a''/(2^8 - 1) in each formula with a new variable. (Even that odd-looking 16711680 is 255 * 65536 .) Then ''a'' simply becomes equal to the approximation to ''p'' and there is an obvious intuitive meaning to it. I used this idea in the new lede, and it'd probably be clearer to do this in the rest of the article as well.

Is there some reason why ''a'' was defined this way that I don't know of? [[User:AySz88|AySz88]] 11:39, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

== Trivia on HP ==

There's a bit in the "Trivia" section about high-HP Pokémon being easier to catch at 1 HP than lower-HP ones. This is true, but it also states that "Pokémon with higher HP stats (such as Chansey) are easier to capture when their HP is reduced, despite low catch rates compared to others." But there isn't a big-enough effect to overwhelm the catch rate except at very very low HP levels. The equation in the current article can be reorganized this way:
a = catch_rate * ball_bonus * status_bonus * (1 - 2/3 * (currentHP / maxHP) )
And at 1 HP:
a = catch_rate * ball_bonus * status_bonus * (1 - 2/(3 * maxHP))
And comparing the HP penalties at 1 HP:
* 10 HP max: 1 - 2/(3 * 10) = 1 - 2/30 = 6.7% penalty (i.e. 0.933x)
* 20 HP max: 1 - 2/(3 * 20) = 1 - 2/60 = 3.3% penalty
* 100HP max: 1 - 2/(3 * 100) = 1 - 2/300 = 0.66% penalty
* 200HP max: 1 - 2/(3 * 200) = 1 - 2/600 = 0.33% penalty
... Once you get past 20ish HP, shaving off bits of that last 3% of (multiplicative) penalty is pretty negligible, equivalent to around 7 points of catch rate at most (3% of 255). [[User:AySz88|AySz88]] 10:40, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

== Generation I? ==

In Generation I, the mechanisms are somewhat different. For example, the number of shakes doesn't seem to be determined randomly and a Poké Ball can even entirely miss a target. Do the Gen. I games also use a completely different formula or does it work the same way as currently described in the article? {{unsigned|Socob}}
:The formula is definitely different in Generation I - I think Pokémon with very high catch rate (like Pidgey) were more difficult to catch, and Pokémon with very low catch rate (like Articuno) were easier to catch. By the way, the number of shakes has not been determined randomly since at least the beginning of Generation IV. [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 16:06, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
::I thought so. It would be nice if we had some information about this, but I don't think that's very easy to get. About the shaking - I'm not sure if that's also what you meant, but what I was referring to by "not randomly" in Generation I is that a Ball will always shake the same amount of times on a Pokémon as long as you don't change its HP/status condition (unless it's caught). -- [[User:Socob|Socob]] ( [[User_talk:Socob|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Socob|Contribs]] ) 10:22, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
:::Actually, I just thought of this: You can try asking Pokémon ROM hacking communities about Generation I catch rate mechanics. [http://www.pokecommunity.com The PokéCommunity] is one of the few Pokémon sites that has a dedicated sub-forum for ROM hacking discussion. [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 19:32, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
:I have put up a complete analysis of the R/B/Y capture algorithm on [http://www.dragonflycave.com/rbycapture.aspx my website], based on the actual code. Something about it should at least probably be included on the page. [[User:Dragonfree|Dragonfree]] 09:00, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

== Trivia ==
Somewhere else on this site, I read that the lowest possible catch rate is 3 since if it were any lower, the Master ball would have a chance of failing. http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/List_of_Pokemon_by_catch_rate#Trivia [[User:KurosakisTwin|KurosakisTwin]] 17:22, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
:False. The Master Ball bypasses the formula entirely, so even if the catch rate were 0, the it would still catch the Pokémon. --[[User:A magical me|a_magical_me]] 23:09, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
::How do you know that? As far as I know, the Master Ball simply uses a value of 255 for the 'BonusBall' variable in the formula.
::With this, if all the other factors in the formula multiplied would result in a number less than one, 'a' would be less than 255 and thus, the Pokémon would have a chance of escaping. Quoting from the article, "The minimum value for 'a' (for a Pokémon with full health) would be ⅓ × catch rate." Since the result of the formula without the BonusBall component has to be at least one for the Master Ball to work reliably, this means that the catch rate must at least be 3 (as ⅓ × 3 = 1).
::This seems to be reasonable evidence to me as to why we've never seen catch rates lower than 3. -- [[User:Socob|Socob]] ( [[User_talk:Socob|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Socob|Contribs]] ) 12:29, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Also, I'm pretty sure that the game wouldn't make an exception for the master ball. That would result in a lot more code, and therefore it's just easier to not make more code and make the lowest catch rate 3 so that the Master Ball can catch anything. [[User:KurosakisTwin|KurosakisTwin]] 09:01, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Socob, I know because it's what [http://upokecenter.com/games/rs/guides/catchrate.php UPC says] and it's what [http://no2.pic.bz/document/ball.html the reference] in [[Catch rate#References|the article]] says. Also because I have read the relevant code in both Diamond and HeartGold, and I can tell you that the Master Ball is simply not implemented in the way you suggest.
:::: KurosakisTwin, it does not require "a lot more code", just a couple lines—a small <code>if</code> statement—and is what any sane programmer would do.
:::: And here is something to think about: the lowest catch rate has been 3 since the beginning, way back in Red and Blue, when a [http://upokecenter.com/games/rby/guides/catchrate.php completely different algorithm] was used. --[[User:A magical me|a_magical_me]] 07:33, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
:::::Even UPC and the reference have their sources (which might be false), and even if they aren't, no matter how it's actually calculated in the games' codes, the Master Ball works without fail, so the statements on UPC don't necessarily indicate the actual calculations.
:::::Still, if you have viewed the code as you say, there's not much I can argue against that. All of what I've said above was, of course, simply evidence that pointed in the direction of a Master Ball with a value of 255. Naturally, the catch rates of 3 might be there to prevent "a" from being below 1 for entirely different reasons. If "a" is actually rounded down to an integer (which is actually stated in the article), then it would have to be at least 1 for the formula to work. However, this seems strange considering your last statement about the algorithm in Generation I. I haven't looked at it closely, but I guess it also needed catch rates of at least 3. I wonder, though, why the developers would go through the trouble of changing the algorithm, but leaving in the necessity of those catch rates of three or higher.
:::::Long story short: You looked at the code, I didn't, so you're probably right. -- [[User:Socob|Socob]] ( [[User_talk:Socob|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Socob|Contribs]] ) 15:28, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
== Critical Capture ==
Should we write about critical capture, of black and white, here?--[[User:Kantenoh|Kantenoh]] 21:56, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

I belive from what i've read and when it happened to me,that there's a not so small chance (I don't know how high), that the pokeball will, when thrown, let out a woosh (a higher pitched on than normaly), absorb a pokemon, let out a metalic sound (ping a little like its captured), shake(a fast shake not a roll) in mid-air, fall down like usualy, then shake only once (not 3 times like usually), and have because of that idk probably about 3 times the capture ratio i suppose.
[[User:Codebracker|Codebracker]]

== Trainer pokemon level ==

I've been thinking about it for quite some time now, but pokemon are easier to capture depending on the level of the pokemon you battle it with.

I tried to catch a pokemon with a lv.5 and lv.8 pokemon and i couldn't catch it with ultraballs in 5 tries, than i swaped it for lv.75 pokemon and it worked on first try.

So could the level of the trainer's pokemon also apply somewhere in the formula?
[[User:Codebracker|Codebracker]]

:5 tries is not NEARLY enough trials to draw any kind of conclusion from. If you really want to test this, you're going to have to set up a comprehensive experiment and run it thousands of times. Alternatively, someone who has read the source code can tell you for sure. --[[User:Toksyuryel|Toksyuryel]] 04:40, 9 January 2011 (UTC)
::I haven't read the code, but the people who wrote this article have. The only time your Pokémon's level is factored in is when you are using a [[Level Ball]]. This was actually recently brought up on the forums. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 04:41, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

== Critical Capture Rate ==

What is the rate of a Critical Capture in Generation V? --[[User:Nathan2055|Nathan2055]][[User Talk:Nathan2055|talk]] 21:22, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
That's what I want to know in Gen 6.--[[User:Hydreigonfan1|Hydreigonfan1]] ([[User talk:Hydreigonfan1|talk]]) 14:02, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

== High or low? ==

It should say in the very beginning whether a high or low number makes it easier/harder for a Pokémon to catch. I don't even think it's ever in the article. - [[User:Colorshade|Colorshade]] 22:20, 13 April 2011 (UTC)
: Good suggestion; I've added that. :) [[User:AySz88|AySz88]] 17:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

== Critical capture ambiguity ==

In the Critical Capture section right now, it says "A random number is generated, and if it is less than the modified value, a critical capture occurs." But what range is the random number in? [[User:AySz88|AySz88]] 20:38, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
:It seems sensible for the range to be 0 to 255 inclusive, since that is the base of the modified value. [[User:Naokohiro|Naokohiro]] 23:54, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

== Catch chance ==
Can anybody tell me whether the chance to catch a Pokémon in Generation I is equal to them in Generation II (and the others) or the chance is different? E.g. I throw an ordinary ball to a full-healthy Weedle. Is the chance to catch it in all generations identically (according to [[Weedle]] 33,3%) despite the fact the capture methods are different? I'm sorry again for my bad English! --[[User:LaBumm|LaBumm]] 04:29, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

== Doubt Generation III Algorithm ==
I'm starting to doubt the generation III algorithm. These are my findings in FireRed. I calculated for a paralyzed lvl 50 Moltres at 1 HP (exactly 1 HP due to endure) with a maximum HPmax of 165 (courtesy of Pokemon.Marriland.com) and a capture rate of 3 with an Ultra Ball. 
A = (3x165-2x1)x3x2/3/156x1.5 = 8 (rounded down) 
B = (2^16-1)xA^(1/4)/(255)^(1/4) = 27581 (rounded down) 
This gives a success rate of: 
(27581 / 65535)^4 = 0.031 (rounded down) or 3.1% 
At the moment I have thrown 400 (FOUR HUNDRED!) Ultra Balls, and still not captured it. 
The chance of that happening would be (1-0.031)^400 = 0.000002902 or 1:344550 
Please tell me I made a mistake in my calculation. It lies rather far outside the normal 0.05 error margin for experimental testing of hypotheses. 
I redid the same sort of testing for Zapdos, I didn't calculate my exact chances, this time I didn't manage to catch it in 200 tries. 
[[User:Ghostbird|Ghostbird]] 00:11, 25 November 2011 (UTC) EDITED: [[User:Ghostbird|Ghostbird]] 12:41, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

I retried catching Moltres and this time I caught it after 15-20 tries. (I wasn't counting) 
The only differences I knew of:
* I had defeated team rocket in Saffron and Giovanni in Viridian's gym.
* I was facing it with a pokémon over lvl 50. (However I caught Articuno using a lvl 30-ish pokemon)
* It was at more than 1 HP (he had a two pixel health bar).

I retried catching Zapdos and this time I did 200 fruitless tries. I noticed that though it had very little health left, it almost always broke free at the first check. 
Something that you should know:
* I've been using a state reload system to quickly retry catching when the capture failed. (Otherwise these capture tests, which require as much attempts as possible, are infeasible.)

I managed to Capture Zapdos on try 41 after reloading the original save (not a state save), (re)initiating combat and then using the reload state method. This time it generally broke free much later, often passing two shake checks and only breaking free at the last check, until I captured it. 

Hypothesis:
* There's something that influences catch rate, which kicks in before you are at the [Use|Cancel] screen after selecting the capture device (Ultra Ball). 
[[User:Ghostbird|Ghostbird]] 17:55, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

* I believe your problem is the fact that you are using the same save state over and over. Typically, random number generators (RNG) initialize with a single random number called the seed and derive subsequent random values using a mathematical formula. When you save a state on your emulator, you are also saving the current state of the RNG used. So theoretically, you are asking the RNG for a random number in the same exact state each time, resulting in the same result every time you reload. I think this is why you managed to capture your Zapados some time after reloading the original save (new random seed). I'm not sure exactly how you used the reload state method after reinitializing combat. Did you have to hard reload the game 41 times or did you reload once and use the save state 41 times? Please elaborate on this. [[User:Invgamma|Invgamma]] 20:45, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

== Investigation of the RNG ==

I recently thought about the specific cases where the catch formula does not seem to describe the behavior of certain Pokemon. On review, I noticed that the catch formula assumes that every random number generated is completely independent of every other random number. If the random number were using some sort of non-deterministic input to calculate a new seed every time a number is requested, this certainly would be true; however, this is normally not the case.

Consider the case of an encounter with a rare Pokemon with a somewhat high catch rate. Assume that the game finds a new random seed whenever an encounter is supposed to happen (probably sometime before) and uses that number to both determine the Pokemon encountered and to seed further random numbers. When you ask the RNG to generate the next couple random numbers, they are completely dependent on the algorithm used and the seed. With a rare Pokemon, the number of random seeded values that result in an encounter with it is sizable, but smaller than a common Pokemon. If the RNG is not reseeded, the number of possible scenarios (with strings of random numbers) greatly decreases. In this case, it could simply be a mathematical oddity (of the algorithm) where the select few seeds that allows an encounter with a rare Pokemon has subsequent random values that allow it to easily be caught (or even possibly more difficult to catch).

If this is the case, then the rarity of each Pokemon can easily influence catch probabilities by "shaping" the subsequent numbers (by pure mathematical accident). Some random values might even be impossible for, let's say, the first pokeball thrown right after an encounter of a rarer Pokemon.
[[User:Invgamma|Invgamma]] 21:02, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

* Just ran a couple of scenarios on an emulated version of Pokemon White. If I load save states right before encountering a Pokemon (a legendary that you can approach), you can get different random seeds for the battle (first action resulted differently each time). This probably means that the seed for the battle is determined based on conditions right when you encounter the pokemon. [[User:Invgamma|Invgamma]] 23:58, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

:Just to let you know, I've done the investigation already :) Check Smogon's RNG Research thread[http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3698857&postcount=765] to get filled in on how the game seeds the battle RNG and (approximately) does the majority of battle RNG operations. RNG is only reseeded between battles. Every game uses 4 random numbers for the shake calculations, the only thing new in gen 5 is the critical capture calc.
:First it calculates if critical capture, then the shake/capture values. If result < CV, pass check. Total of 4 for regular catch, 1 for CC.
:Come ask about the battle RNG in IRC, synirc #smogonwifi

== A comment on Critical Capture ==

Having read through the article and especially the section describing the critical capture, it occurred to me that since it usually uses three shake checks, it is cubing the base probability of capture. By only using one shake check, it does not get cubed, which is why it allows capture to occur easier. However, the amount it increases capture rate is dependent on how difficult it is to capture in the first place. Another way to think about what I previously said is to take any specific set of conditions (a species in the wild, how much HP it has out of its total HP, and if it has any status ailments) and calculate the probability of catching it with any one type of ball. You could then take that final probability and, assuming that the same exact conditions and ball are used, a critical capture will increase the chances of capture to the cube root of the capture probability without a critical capture. This relationship means that the lower the capture rate is in specific conditions, the more difference a critical will make in the probability of catching it.

A couple examples would be if a legendary pokemon is attempting to be caught in specific conditions that would create a normal capture probability of 1%, if it is instead a critical capture, that will increase to a 21.5% capture probability. However, at higher capture probability this difference is much smaller. If there is an easily captured pokemon at low health, with a status ailment, and the normal capture probability is 90%, a critical capture in the same circumstances would mean a 96.5% capture probability.

Is this worth adding into the article, or am I just having too much fun with the math?[[User:Morranr|Mor'ranr]] 16:07, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

:It would be cool to see the adjusted probability of that helping, but I don't think it would be one dimensional because of the different critical capture rates.
: If critical capture calc passes, shake check once; else thrice.
:[[User:Kaphotics|Kaphotics]] 00:04, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

:I definitely think it is useful to point out the relationship, and the difference in effect between Pokémon with low rates and high rates. But it might be better to use "realistic" numbers for any examples in the article (i.e. 3/255 instead of 1%). [[User:AySz88|AySz88]] 05:07, 24 February 2012 (UTC)
:<s>Wait, shouldn't it be fourth root? The article says there's needs to be one shake check to pass instead of ''four'' normally. [[User:AySz88|AySz88]] 05:14, 24 February 2012 (UTC)</s>
:: Oops, no, was accidentally looking at a different generation. [[User:AySz88|AySz88]] 07:40, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
::: Fourth roots and third roots never happen in game. The b equation listed is just a probability of you catching (ie all the shake compares lumped together). It does a*0x100 > rand(0,65535) for a pass shake calc. 4 times for gen 3-4, 3x for gen 5 after criticalcapture. That's the one gripe I have about this page, the mathematical approximations aren't what the game does. [[User:Kaphotics|Kaphotics]] 19:22, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
:::: I'm not sure what you're saying here. Yes, the algorithm used for a shake check is not literally a third or fourth root. But while it's nice to document the exact algorithm somewhere, it's probably much more useful to explain the practical results of the algorithm - thus why there are the approximations used in the lede (and occasionally sprinkled elsewhere). You can be sure that when the game designers were playing with formulas, they were doing it in general terms, not caring about whether the RNG was 16-bit or whether a division rounded up or down. The algorithms in the code are crafted to follow their intent. (The difference is famously illustrated in that [https://www.google.com/search?q=pokemon+serious+business old "Pokémon: Serious Business" image] that had an old version of this article - indeed, it's what inspired me to craft the new lede in the first place.) Let's keep our audience in mind.
:::: Though, that does bring up something else: it might be a good idea to more clearly separate the exact algorithms from the approximate interpretations, instead of the hodgepodge mix in the article currently. [[User:AySz88|AySz88]] 05:23, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

:::: Kaphotics (or, anyone), could you elaborate on "It does a*0x100 > rand(0,65535) for a pass shake calc."? I don't understand how multiplying by 256 is equivalent to 65536 / (255/''a'')(1/4) as listed in the article. —[[User:Naokohiro|Naokohiro]] 10:55, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
::::: When I wrote that I wasn't thinking clearly, it does keep the 4th root and such. For every check it does - rand(0xFFFF) and compares it to b. If it is less than b, it passes the wiggle calc and checks again until it either fails or the wiggles result in capture. [[User:Kaphotics|Kaphotics]] 17:45, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

== Generation V -- Interesting Probabilities ==

Since we are still getting the 4th root of the initial probability a and doing 3 shake checks, that makes the chance of capture when the critical capture chance is 0 equal to a3/4.

This takes what would normally be a linear probability always equal to a and puts it on an exponential curve.

If we have more than 30 in the dex, the probability now changes. There is a (a*m)*a1/4 chance of getting a critical capture and then succeeding in capture. Let m be the multiplier for critical capture which is based on the amount caught in the Pokédex. There's also a (1 - a*m)*a3/4 chance of getting a normal capture. So, the total chance of getting a capture is now (a*m)*a1/4 + (1 - a*m)*a3/4 (with m=0, 0.5, 1, 1.5, 2, or 2.5 respectively).

What this does is make an increasingly steeper curve the higher the value of m, but the curve always starts at (0, 0) and ends at (1, 1).
Actually, in the higher values for m, the curve actually gets so steep that it begins to increase a by more than 100% for part of the curve, which suggests a higher chance of capture when the Pokémon isn't completely at its weakest.
I just thought this information was interesting. It's almost like catching Pokémon has its own level up system. [[User:Naokohiro|Naokohiro]] 00:55, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

:Is this something worth mentioning in the article? —[[User:Naokohiro|Naokohiro]] 00:58, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
::I haven't had Critical Capture debugged, but I noticed that what is currently the going theory on the page wasn't matching up with the battle RNG. The critical capture section is really... empty, so why not? If you want to put it in the article be sure to have an image of it! [[User:Kaphotics|Kaphotics]] 17:45, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

==Gen V Shake Rate==
Isn't the Gen V shake rate listed functionally the same as the Gen IV one? It seems slightly redundant having both formulas up, claiming to be different...[[User:Unknowen900|Unknowen900]] ([[User talk:Unknowen900|talk]]) 08:33, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

== Level ball ==

The formula seems to be flawed for the Level Ball. I'm playing HeartGold and I was trying to catch a level 4 Aipom (full health) using my level 58 Crobat. According the the formula, I should have had a 140% chance of catch the Aipom with a Level Ball. I threw 3 or 4 level balls at the Aipom and all of them broke. I've generally found most Pokémon to be more difficult to catch than this formula and their catch rates indicated that they should be, but the Level Ball, in particular, doesn't seem to increase catch rates significantly, if at all. [[User:RS89|RS89]] ([[User talk:RS89|talk]]) 01:59, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
:The number is 140, Then it generates a random number from 0-255, and it does something else. It's not a percentage. I think. --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 02:21, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
::Nevermind. I just realized I missed a step. [[User:RS89|RS89]] ([[User talk:RS89|talk]]) 02:39, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

== The Formula Simplified (as much as possible) ==
Here's the simple explanation (in Gen V): Your chances to catch a Pokemon are based on 5 things normally (6, if you count capture power, but that is not a normal thing).

'''1st. Species Specific Catch Chance:''' Meaning some pokemon are super easy to catch and come are super hard. The only way to look get this is to just look up the Pokemon, it's Catch Rate is listed in it's info box (on a scale of 0 to 255). So, if it has a 255, you will catch it.
:Pretty much a 100% chance. If it is a 45 (like Celibi) then you only have a 6% chance to catch it before any other factors.

'''2nd. It's Current Health:''' If the creature is at full HP, than your normal chances are cut to 1/3. This means that a 255 would be a 33% chance with a Pokeball at full HP and a Celibi would be a 2% chance. This continues to decrease all the way to 1 HP,
:which gives you between 99% and 99.9% of your normal. Meaning the HP basically no longer negatively affects your catch chance at 1 HP.

'''3rd. The Type of Ball Used:''' You have a normal chance with a Pokeball. Your chance is multiplied by 1.5x for a Great Ball, 2x for an Ultra Ball, 3x for a Repeat or Net Ball, 3.5x for Dive or Dusk Ball, 4x for a Timer or Nest Ball (at max), and 5x for a Quick Ball.
:These all assume you are using them correctly (i.e. Dusk in caves, Repeat on owned Pokemon, and Quick in round 1). Timer and Nest balls can multiply your chances by everything from 1x to 4x (including 3.2134x or some other random number).
:Nest Balls are 4x for a level 1 Pokemon, 3x for a level 11, 2x for a level 21, and 1x for everything above level 30. Timer balls are 1x in the first round, 2x after 10 rounds, 3x after 20, and 4x after 30 rounds.
:This means, if you are trying to catch a pokemon with a catch rate of 255 (easiest possible) at full HP with a Great Ball your chances would start at 100% for the 255, drop to 33% because he is at full HP, and then would increase back to 50% with a Great Ball ((((255 * .33) * 1.5) = 114.75) 114.75/255 = 0.495).
:The same Pokemon would be a 100% chance of catching it with a Quick, Dive, or Dusk Ball (also 100% with a Nest or Timer Ball at max conditions). It is still a 99% chance with a Repeat or Net Ball. It is only a 66% chance; however, with an Ultra Ball or a 50% chance with a Great Ball.
:It would be a 33% chance with a normal Pokeball (Basically normal, Great, and Ultra Balls suck).

'''4th. Status Ailments:''' This is simple, and it stacks multiplicity. Meaning if the pokemon is Paralyzed, Poisoned, or Burned then your chances are 1.5x and if it is Slept or Frozen, then your chances are 2.5x.
:So, in the above example, a 255 Pokemon (100%) at full HP (33%) using a Great Ball (1.5x) gives you a 50% chance. If that same Pokemon is Paralyzed then your chances increase to 75%. If it is Paralyzed AND Poisoned then your chances are 100%.
:Also, if it was JUST Asleep (no Poison or Paralysis) then your chances are still 100% ((255 (Catch Rate) * 0.33 (Full HP) = 84.15) (84.15 * 1.5 (Great Ball) = 126.225) (126.225 * 2.5 = 315.5625) That is higher than 255 so you have a 100% chance).

'''5th. Dark Grass:''' Basically this means that if your encounter is in Dark Grass it is harder to catch the Pokemon based on how far through the game you are. In the beginning of the game, it will further decrease the penalty for it's HP by up to half and at the end of the game you will have full chances.
:100% normal chance if you have more than 600 Completed Pokedex Entries (not just seen, but caught). You will have a 90% of your normal chance if you have between 451 and 600 completed Pokedex entries, 80% for 301 to 450 entries, 70% for 151 to 300 entries, 60% for 30 to 151 entries,
:and 50% of your normal chance if you have less than 30 completed Pokedex entries. Meaning, almost the entire game you will sit at 60% in dark grass. This means that if you have a Pokemon with a Catch Rate of 255 at full HP and you tried to catch him with a normal Pokeball then normally you have a 33% chance.
:If it happens in Dark Grass you have a 16.6% chance. If you used an Ultra Ball, normally you would have a 66% chance, in Dark Grass you would have a 33% chance. The math is a little longer to show here but ...
:Here: (250HP x3 = 750 - (250x2) = 250) <- 1st half of the HP formula. now ((250 * .5 (Dark Grass)) = 125), then (125 * 2 (Ultra Ball) = 250) and Finally ((250/(250 * 3)) = 0.333) <- 2nd half of the HP formula.

I know that is sort of long, but I hope that makes more sense.
[[User:Degrelecence|Degrelecence]] ([[User talk:Degrelecence|talk]]) 06:18, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

EDIT: Sorry forgot that whole Capture Power thing. The 6th factor is Capture Power. The catch rate is multiplied by 1.1x if Capture Power ↑ is active, 1.2x if ↑↑ is active, or 1.3x if ↑↑↑, Capture Power S, or Capture Power MAX is active. [[User:Degrelecence|Degrelecence]] ([[User talk:Degrelecence|talk]]) 06:34, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

:You said that for <30 and 30-151 the percent chances are capture in dark grass are 50% and 60% respectively, but the table provided in the article says these values are 30% and 50% at these intervals. Which one is correct? --[[User:Skit7548|Skit7548]] ([[User talk:Skit7548|talk]]) 05:28, 28 October 2013 (UTC)

== Generation V shake checks ==

The article currently states that three shake checks occur for a regular capture in the Generation V games. This is contradicted by Kaphotics on Smogon (and earlier on this page), who claims that four shake checks occur. Which is correct? [[User:Arcorann|Arcorann]] ([[User talk:Arcorann|talk]]) 08:31, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

== Critical Capture chances? ==

How rare is it to get a Critical Capture?
I'm really confused with this. We could put this on the Critical Capture section. I know the more you capture Pokemon in your Pokedex the more chance you'll catch a Pokemon and it usually always works without fail except if you don't catch Pokemon a lot. But I want to know how rare it is. I got 3 Critical Captures in 1 Day and 2 of them were one after another. How rare is it so we can put it on the Critical Capture area?--[[User:Hydreigonfan1|Hydreigonfan1]] ([[User talk:Hydreigonfan1|talk]]) 14:00, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
:It says how rare it is. To be simple: whatever number the final catch rate is, that number is multiplied by 0, 0.5, 1, 1.5, 2 or 2.5 (depending on how many Pokémon you caught), and then a random number is generated. If it's lower than the number received by multiplying final catch rate, critical capture occurs. [[User:Uploader|Uploader]] ([[User talk:Uploader|talk]]) 14:12, 19 December 2013 (UTC) PS. The only thing missing is what's the interval for that random number. The critical catch success otherwise is based on how likely you are to catch mon (and isn't a guaranteed catch unless you would catch it anyway). [[User:Uploader|Uploader]] ([[User talk:Uploader|talk]]) 14:14, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

== Generation II Shake Probability table ==

Why isn't [[Catch_rate#Generation II 2|this]] an actual table? --[[User:Det|Det]] ([[User talk:Det|talk]]) 08:36, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
:It is, actually. It just doesn't have any pretty borders. ...Also, it's arguably formatted badly (text alignment).
:I did something to it. I experimented with the styles that are on other tables on the page, but it didn't look good to me, so I kept it dead simple. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 09:27, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

== Critical Catch ==

The example can't be right. It says, that catching Kyurem with catch rate 3 with max HP and Pokéball has a probability of 0.4%, which is right. For a critical capture the value 25.03% is given, which is (0.4%)^(1/4) or the forth-root of the chance, respectively. But why should it be the forth-root instead of third-root? Remember that in Gen V only THREE shake checks are performed. The example would be right for Gen IV, but not for Kyurem. Or is there something I do not understand? - Pokémon [[User:Pokémon|Questions?]] -- 23:37, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

:I have checked the version history now. In fact this example has been done before finding out that since Generation V only three shakes are performed (or one for a critical capture). It must be a wrong example. Otherwise I has no mathmatical sense. It's almost like saying 1/3 * 4 = 1. You cannot have only three shakes, but set a single shake to the extend of 4 to get the whole capture chance p. The real chance of this example has to be 15.77%.- Pokémon [[User:Pokémon|Questions?]] -- 00:36, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

== The nearest 1/4096 ==

"and then rounded to the nearest multiple of 1/4096"

I always read this, but... what does it mean?!? The first multiple is 4096 to get a whole number, so if I have numbers between 0 and 255 I always would round them to 1. Nonsence. I just don't understand this expression. - Pokémon [[User:Pokémon|Questions?]] -- 03:34, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

:I believe it means the game uses 12 fractional bits. If the program is executed in the order shown, "(3*HP_MAX - 2*HP_Current)*rate*ball/3/HP_MAX*status", the "/3" will round the result then "/HP_Max" will round the result again. If we were only dealing with int data types, each division would round the result to the next lowest integer (1/3 = 0, 13/10 = 1, 9000/4096 = 2). The fractional bits ensure a calculation like 400/3 yields 546133/4096 (133.33325) instead of just 133 - an error of .006% instead .25%. Is it going to make much of a difference after you round to the nearest whole number? Not really. But when you have the memory and the processing power, this becomes a trivial process, so why not. [[User:Rulingsword|Rulingsword]] ([[User talk:Rulingsword|talk]]) 04:47, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

== Generation VI Catch Rate Formula ==

I think that we can say with certainty that the catch rate formula has changed drastically in Generation VI. [[Zygarde]] has a catch rate of 0 which would mean that it could not be captured except with a Master Ball. This is assuming that the catch rate given is correct. {{unsigned|Mudmaster97}}
:Most Gen VI Pokémon's catch rate aren't known, so it says 0. [[User:Glik|Glik]] ([[User talk:Glik|talk]]) 15:54, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

== Blowing into the microphone ==
In generation IV it was rumored that blowing into the microphone increased your chances of catching the Pokémon. I know to take rumors with a pinch of salt, but it appeared as an official tip in the Official Nintendo Magazine a few years ago. --[[User:Evacino|'''evacino''']][[User talk:Evacino|''' (talk)''']] 19:51, 19 February 2014 (GMT)

== This page confuses people horribly ==

After browsing through a bunch of catch rate-related questions on PokémonDB, I have come to the conclusion that this page is frightfully confusing for the average fan. People scroll down to the later generations, see the single big formula graphic for the modified catch rate in generations III-IV, plug in the numbers, get something that looks vaguely like it could be a percentage and then assume that's it. This could probably be avoided or mitigated by rewriting or at least rearranging the page so that the shake probability calculation is at least closer to the modified catch rate, so people see that there is more to it than that one formula, but I'm open to suggestions. Any thoughts?{{unsigned|Dragonfree}}

== Gen V Shake-Break Comment ==

In BW2 the 1 shake-brake comment is exactly like it is execpt with "Aww" not "Aww" also the 2 shake-break comment isnt listed but I will find out what it is ( sry I havent been signing my comments I keep forgetting) [[User:Pokemonisawesome2|Pokemonisawesome2]] ([[User talk:Pokemonisawesome2|talk]]) 02:42, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
:The 2 shake comment is not listed, because it doesn't exist. In Generation V, a Poké Ball will ''never'' shake two times. While speaking of this; since the game performs 3 checks instead of four, doesn't that make Pokémon more likely to be caught? [[User:Eridanus|Eridanus]] ([[User talk:Eridanus|talk]]) 10:13, 23 August 2014 (UTC)
::thats exactly what i was getting at I have caught nearly every pokemon in white 2 and have never seen it shake twice however I am not sure that this means it only checks 3 time perhaps it checks twice before one of the other shakes? (Like it mabey theres a hidden check that it dosent show?) But if it is just the fact that it only shakes 3 time that would sigfigantly lower the catch rates [[User:Pokemonisawesome2|Pokemonisawesome2]] ([[User talk:Pokemonisawesome2|talk]]) 16:27, 24 August 2014 (UTC)

Kalos Route 2

2014-08-24T16:19:01Z

Pokemonisawesome2: /* Pokémon */

{{incomplete}}
{{Route infobox
|number=2
|size=250
|generation=6
|image=Kalos Route 2 XY.png
|type=land
|mapdesc=You'll find many Pokémon hiding among the tall grass that grows in tufts along this trail.
|north=Santalune Forest
|south=Aquacorde Town
|region=Kalos
}}
'''Route 2''' (Japanese: '''{{tt|２番道路|２ばんどうろ}}''' ''Route 2'') is a route in southern [[Kalos]], connecting [[Aquacorde Town]] and [[Santalune Forest]]. The route is also known as '''Avance Trail''' (Japanese: '''アバンセ{{tt|通り|どおり}}''' ''Avance Trail'').

==Route Description==
This route is a straightforward route with trees and shrubs that can be seen on both sides of the path with slightly different trees in the southwest and southeast part of the route. The route has three patches of grass that the player must go through and a river to the west that is inaccessible. The river appears to have a cut a valley on the west side of the route. There are two small hills on the route, both which are non-navigable with one hill barely seen on the western side of the route.

==Items==
{{Itlisth|land}}
{{Itemlist|Poké Ball|Gift from {{ga|Calem}}/{{ga|Serena}} after the catching demonstration|X=yes|y=yes|display={{ball|Poké}} ×10}}
{{Itlistfoot|land}}

==Pokémon==
{{catch/header|land|2}}
{{catch/entry6|010|Caterpie|no|yes|Grass|3-4|all=10%|type1=bug}}
{{catch/entry6|013|Weedle|yes|no|Grass|3-4|all=10%|type1=bug|type2=poison}}
{{catch/entry6|016|Pidgey|yes|yes|Grass|3-4|all=15%|type1=normal|type2=flying}}
{{catch/entry6|263|Zigzagoon|yes|yes|Grass|3-4|all=15%|type1=normal}}
{{catch/entry6|661|Fletchling|yes|yes|Grass|2-3|all=20%|type1=normal|type2=flying}}
{{catch/entry6|659|Bunnelby|yes|yes|Grass|2-3|all=20%|type1=normal}}
{{catch/entry6|664|Scatterbug|yes|yes|Grass|2-3|all=20%|type1=bug}}
{{catch/footer|land}}

==Trainers==
{{trainerheader|land}}
{{Trainerentry|VSYoungster.png{{!}}150px|Youngster|Austin|120|1|263|Zigzagoon|♂|5|None|36=ジャン|37=Jan}}
{{trainerfooter|land|6}}

==Trivia==
* The first Pokémon encountered on this route is always a level 3, {{a|Keen Eye}} {{p|Pidgey}}, in the second row of [[tall grass]] north into the route.

==Name origin==
''Avance'' is French for advance.

==In other languages==
{{langtable|color={{locationcolor/light|land}}|bordercolor={{locationcolor/dark|land}}
|fr=Chemin Progrès
|de=Progrès-Weg
|it=Via Progresso
|ko=아방쎄 도로 ''Avance Doro''
|es=Vía del Avance
}}
{{-}}
{{Kalos}} 
{{Project Routes notice}}

[[Category:Kalos locations]]
[[Category:Routes]]

[[de:Route 2 (Kalos)]]
[[fr:Route 2 (Kalos)]]
[[it:Percorso 2 (Kalos)]]
[[ja:2ばんどうろ (カロス地方)]]
[[zh:2号道路（卡洛斯）]]

Talk:Kalos Route 2

2014-08-24T16:18:16Z

Pokemonisawesome2: /* Calculating Percentages */

== Caterpie ==
I think the list of wild Pokemon should be revised. I found a Caterpie in the forest and I'm playing version X --[[User:CrazyMagmar|Dunsparce can learn Double-Edge. |B) DEAL WITH IT.]] ([[User talk:CrazyMagmar|talk]]) 00:36, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
:In [[Santalune Forest]], not here? 'Cuz that'd be right. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 00:53, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

== Calculating Percentages ==

Can we calculate the percentages of how the wild Pokémon appear? Or would it be too speculative? My calculations are that Caterpie, Weedle Pidgey and Zigzagoon each has a 11% chance of appearing while Fletchling, Scatterbug and Bunnelby have 22% chance. Although, I'm not totally sure. Any of them can be off. In fact, the percentages would total up to 99% meaning one of them can have 1% more. Can someone figure out these calculations? I would like to see numbers to be consistent with the other regions. [[User:SeanWheeler|SeanWheeler]] ([[User talk:SeanWheeler|talk]]) 18:33, 28 June 2014 (UTC)
:I don't know wheter it's okay or not, but an important question is: what kind of numbers do you have? My thoughts are that 100 encounters might (maybe) be okay to base approximations off of if there are only a few Pokemon that can appear, but I'd consider 200-300 encounters (if not more) to be better, especially with many Pokemon or an especially rare Pokemon (with a low encounter rate).
:Personally, I think it would be good to use approximations until we can derive the numbers from the games directly, because who knows how long it'll be before that happens. But I also kind of think that if we did go this route, it'd be nice to have a record of the numbers people have derived the percentages from, so there's some measure of "accountability"/verifiability. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 18:48, 28 June 2014 (UTC)
::I think for the percents we should do some rounding i think its more likely caterpie/weedle are 10% not 11% and pidgey is 15% not 14% I gonna change it feel free to change it back its just look back at most routes the percents are normally nice nummbers that are multiples of 5 [[User:Pokemonisawesome2|Pokemonisawesome2]] ([[User talk:Pokemonisawesome2|talk]]) 16:18, 24 August 2014 (UTC)

Evolution

2014-08-16T18:27:59Z

Pokemonisawesome2: /* Methods of evolution */

{{samename|set in {{ga|Pokémon Trading Card Game}}|Evolution (GB1)}}
[[File:Evotag.png|frame|right|{{p|Ivysaur}} evolving into {{p|Venusaur}}, depicted in {{game|Black and White|s}}]]
'''Evolution''' (Japanese: '''{{tt|進化|しんか}}''' ''shinka'') is a process in which a {{OBP|Pokémon|species}} changes into a different species of Pokémon. This change is not merely physical, however, as Pokémon of a higher evolutionary stage have different (and usually more powerful) [[base stats]] than their predecessors, may have different [[move]]s that can be learned, and sometimes change their [[type]]s, though usually at least one of the types of the previous form is preserved. Other statistics, such as [[Nature]] and {{EV}}s, as well as {{shiny|shininess}}, are preserved. In the real world, it is more similar to {{wp|metamorphosis}} than {{wp|evolution}}.

[[Professor Elm]] and [[Professor Rowan]] are the leading experts in Pokémon Evolution. According to the latter's research, over 90% of all Pokémon are connected to at least one other through Evolution. Rowan is currently investigating whether Evolution is a form of maturity in Pokémon, and looking at the implications this process has on Legendary Pokémon, which don't evolve.

==Evolution families==
An evolution family is a group of Pokémon who will all, if bred with {{p|Ditto}} or a Pokémon in the same [[Egg Group]], make a Pokémon Egg that will hatch into the same Pokémon, excluding baby Pokémon. This also means that the most basic form has the potential to become any of the rest of the family, although it will ultimately be able to follow only one evolutionary path.

===Stages of evolution===
[[File:Piplup family anime.png|thumb|240px|right|Piplup evolution family in the anime]]
Pokémon can be divided into different evolutionary stages, based on where they appear in their evolution family. All Pokémon fall into one of four groups: [[baby Pokémon]], unevolved Pokémon, first-evolution Pokémon, and second-evolution Pokémon. These groups are also the basis for the {{Trading Card Game}}'s grouping of {{TCG|Baby Pokémon}}, {{TCG|Basic Pokémon}}, {{TCG|Stage 1 Pokémon}}, and {{TCG|Stage 2 Pokémon}}, respectively.

Due to the fact that no evolution family contains both a baby Pokémon and a second-evolution Pokémon, many regard baby Pokémon as the most basic form, while moving their evolved counterparts one level higher. For example, originally, {{p|Pikachu}} was regarded as an unevolved Pokémon, however, with the release of {{p|Pichu}} in [[Generation II]], many now consider it to be more on par with Pokémon like {{p|Charmeleon}}, though its TCG classification remains the same.

====Two-evolution families====
{{main|:category:Pokémon that are part of a three-stage evolutionary line|Pokémon that are part of a three-stage evolutionary line}}
Perhaps the most well-known types of evolution families are those that feature two separate evolutionary events in the Pokémon's development. Indeed, this type of evolution family is what all of the [[starter Pokémon]] in the [[core series]] are a part of (excluding the starter {{p|Pikachu}} in {{game|Yellow}}, as {{p|Pichu}} did not yet exist and it could not be evolved into {{p|Raichu}}; and {{p|Eevee}}, which could only be taken by {{ga|Blue}}), as well as all [[pseudo-legendary Pokémon]]. An example of this type of evolution family is below.

{| style="margin:auto; background: #E0F2B6; {{roundy|15px}}"
|
{| style="margin:auto; text-align:center; background: #C4E673; {{roundy|15px}}"
|-
| rowspan="2" |
| Lowest
| rowspan="2" | Trigger → {{color2|000|Level|Level 30}}
| Middle
| rowspan="2" | Trigger → {{color2|000|Level|Level 55}}
| Highest
| rowspan="2" |
|-
| style="background: #E0F2B6; {{roundy|1em}}" | [[File:147Dratini.png|96px]] {{color2|000|Dratini (Pokémon)|Dratini}}
| style="background: #E0F2B6; {{roundy|1em}}" | [[File:148Dragonair.png|96px]] {{color2|000|Dragonair (Pokémon)|Dragonair}}
| style="background: #E0F2B6; {{roundy|1em}}" | [[File:149Dragonite.png|96px]] {{color2|000|Dragonite (Pokémon)|Dragonite}}
|-
| colspan="5" |
|}
|}

====One-evolution families====
{{main|:category:Pokémon that are part of a two-stage evolutionary line|Pokémon that are part of a two-stage evolutionary line}}
By far the most common type of evolution family, these families are based in a Pokémon that will only ever evolve once in its development. About one third of all Pokémon that would later get a baby form were part of this kind of evolution family before their baby form was revealed. An example of this type of evolution family is below.

{| style="margin:auto; background: #E0F2B6; {{roundy|15px}}"
|
{| style="margin:auto; text-align:center; background: #C4E673; {{roundy|15px}}"
|-
| rowspan="2" |
| Lowest
| rowspan="2" | Trigger → {{color2|000|Level|Level 20}}
| Highest
| rowspan="2" |
|-
| style="background: #E0F2B6; {{roundy|1em}}" | [[File:019Rattata.png|96px]] {{color2|000|Rattata (Pokémon)|Rattata}}
| style="background: #E0F2B6; {{roundy|1em}}" | [[File:020Raticate.png|96px]] {{color2|000|Raticate (Pokémon)|Raticate}}
|-
| colspan="3" |
|}
|}

====Pokémon that do not evolve====
{{main|List of Pokémon that are not part of an evolutionary line}}
The least common type of evolution family is that in which no evolutionary event takes place, meaning that it is made up of only one member. Many of the Pokémon that have no evolutionary relatives are [[Legendary Pokémon]]. However, there are still 61 other Pokémon that do not evolve. Below is a list of all non-Legendary Pokémon that do not evolve ({{p|Phione}} isn't included due to its status as a Legendary being disputed).

{| style="margin:auto; text-align:center; background: #C4E673; {{roundy|10px}}; border: 5px solid #E0F2B6"
|-
! colspan="2" style="background: #C4E673; {{roundytl|5px}}" | [[Generation I|Gen I]]
! colspan="2" style="background: #C4E673;" | [[Generation II|Gen II]]
! colspan="2" style="background: #C4E673;" | [[Generation III|Gen III]]
! colspan="2" style="background: #C4E673;" | [[Generation IV|Gen IV]]
! colspan="2" style="background: #C4E673;" | [[Generation V|Gen V]]
! colspan="2" style="background: #C4E673; {{roundytr|5px}}" | [[Generation VI|Gen VI]]
|- style="background: #fff"
| {{MSP|083|Farfetch'd}}
| {{p|Farfetch'd}}
| {{MSP|201|Unown}}
| {{p|Unown}}
| {{MSP|302|Sableye}}
| {{p|Sableye}}
| {{MSP|417|Pachirisu}}
| {{p|Pachirisu}}
| {{MSP|531|Audino}}
| {{p|Audino}}
| {{MSP|676|Furfrou}}
| {{p|Furfrou}}
|- style="background: #fff"
| {{MSP|115|Kangaskhan}}
| {{p|Kangaskhan}}
| {{MSP|203|Girafarig}}
| {{p|Girafarig}}
| {{MSP|303|Mawile}}
| {{p|Mawile}}
| {{MSP|441|Chatot}}
| {{p|Chatot}}
| {{MSP|538|Throh}}
| {{p|Throh}}
| {{MSP|701|Hawlucha}}
| {{p|Hawlucha}}
|- style="background: #fff"
| {{MSP|127|Pinsir}}
| {{p|Pinsir}}
| {{MSP|206|Dunsparce}}
| {{p|Dunsparce}}
| {{MSP|311|Plusle}}
| {{p|Plusle}}
| {{MSP|442|Spiritomb}}
| {{p|Spiritomb}}
| {{MSP|539|Sawk}}
| {{p|Sawk}}
| {{MSP|702|Dedenne}}
| {{p|Dedenne}}
|- style="background: #fff"
| {{MSP|128|Tauros}}
| {{p|Tauros}}
| {{MSP|211|Qwilfish}}
| {{p|Qwilfish}}
| {{MSP|312|Minun}}
| {{p|Minun}}
| {{MSP|455|Carnivine}}
| {{p|Carnivine}}
| {{MSP|550|Basculin}}
| {{p|Basculin}}
| {{MSP|703|Carbink}}
| {{p|Carbink}}
|- style="background: #fff"
| {{MSP|131|Lapras}}
| {{p|Lapras}}
| {{MSP|213|Shuckle}}
| {{p|Shuckle}}
| {{MSP|313|Volbeat}}
| {{p|Volbeat}}
| {{MSP|479|Rotom}}
| {{p|Rotom}}
| {{MSP|556|Maractus}}
| {{p|Maractus}}
| {{MSP|707|Klefki}}
| {{p|Klefki}}
|- style="background: #fff"
| {{MSP|132|Ditto}}
| {{p|Ditto}}
| {{MSP|214|Heracross}}
| {{p|Heracross}}
| {{MSP|314|Illumise}}
| {{p|Illumise}}
| style="background: #C4E673" |
| style="background: #C4E673" |
| {{MSP|561|Sigilyph}}
| {{p|Sigilyph}}
|-
| style="background: #fff" | {{MSP|142|Aerodactyl}}
| style="background: #fff" | {{p|Aerodactyl}}
| style="background: #fff" | {{MSP|222|Corsola}}
| style="background: #fff" | {{p|Corsola}}
| style="background: #fff" | {{MSP|324|Torkoal}}
| style="background: #fff" | {{p|Torkoal}}
| colspan="2" rowspan="13" style="background: #C4E673" |  
| style="background: #fff" | {{MSP|587|Emolga}}
| style="background: #fff" | {{p|Emolga}}
|- style="background: #fff"
| colspan="2" rowspan="11" style="background: #C4E673" |  
| {{MSP|225|Delibird}}
| {{p|Delibird}}
| {{MSP|327|Spinda}}
| {{p|Spinda}}
| {{MSP|594|Alomomola}}
| {{p|Alomomola}}
|- style="background: #fff"
| {{MSP|227|Skarmory}}
| {{p|Skarmory}}
| {{MSP|335|Zangoose}}
| {{p|Zangoose}}
| {{MSP|615|Cryogonal}}
| {{p|Cryogonal}}
|- style="background: #fff"
| {{MSP|234|Stantler}}
| {{p|Stantler}}
| {{MSP|336|Seviper}}
| {{p|Seviper}}
| {{MSP|618|Stunfisk}}
| {{p|Stunfisk}}
|- style="background: #fff"
| {{MSP|235|Smeargle}}
| {{p|Smeargle}}
| {{MSP|337|Lunatone}}
| {{p|Lunatone}}
| {{MSP|621|Druddigon}}
| {{p|Druddigon}}
|-
| style="background: #fff" | {{MSP|241|Miltank}}
| style="background: #fff" | {{p|Miltank}}
| style="background: #fff" | {{MSP|338|Solrock}}
| style="background: #fff" | {{p|Solrock}}
| style="background: #fff" | {{MSP|626|Bouffalant}}
| style="background: #fff" | {{p|Bouffalant}}
|-
| colspan="2" rowspan="6" style="background: #C4E673" |  
| style="background: #fff" | {{MSP|351|Castform}}
| style="background: #fff" | {{p|Castform}}
| style="background: #fff" | {{MSP|631|Heatmor}}
| style="background: #fff" | {{p|Heatmor}}
|- style="background: #fff"
| {{MSP|352|Kecleon}}
| {{p|Kecleon}}
| {{MSP|632|Durant}}
| {{p|Durant}}
|- style="background: #fff"
| {{MSP|357|Tropius}}
| {{p|Tropius}}
|- style="background: #fff"
| {{MSP|359|Absol}}
| {{p|Absol}}
|- style="background: #fff"
| {{MSP|369|Relicanth}}
| {{p|Relicanth}}
|- style="background: #fff"
| {{MSP|370|Luvdisc}}
| {{p|Luvdisc}}
|}

Not belonging to an evolutionary family is not indicative of strength, or a lack thereof. Some Pokémon, such as {{p|Heracross}} and {{p|Skarmory}}, are comparable to fully evolved Pokémon while others, like {{p|Delibird}} and {{p|Luvdisc}}, are more comparable to unevolved Pokémon. Often this indicates a Pokémon's possibility to be eligible for future [[List of Pokémon with cross-generational evolutions|new evolutions]] or [[baby Pokémon|pre-evolutions]].

====Branch evolution families====
{{main|List of Pokémon with branched evolutions}}
Several families, while also one- and two-evolution families, are also branch evolution families. What this means is that there is a split in the evolutionary line at some point so that even though two Pokémon of the same species evolve the same amount of times, they can become one of two or more entirely different creatures. {{p|Eevee}} is the best-known example of this, evolving eight different ways depending on the method used. An example of this type of evolution family is below.

{| style="margin:auto; background: #E0F2B6; {{roundy|15px}}"
|
{| style="margin:auto; text-align:center; background: #C4E673; {{roundy|15px}}"
|-
| rowspan="3" |
| Lowest
| rowspan="3" | Trigger → {{color2|000|Level|Level 25}}
| Middle
| rowspan="3" | Trigger → {{color2|000|Evolutionary stone#Water Stone|Water Stone}} Trigger → Trade Holding {{color2|000|Evolution-inducing held item#King's Rock|King's Rock}}
| Highest
| rowspan="3" |
|-
| rowspan="2" style="background: #E0F2B6; {{roundy|1em}}" | [[File:060Poliwag.png|96px]] {{color2|000|Poliwag (Pokémon)|Poliwag}}
| rowspan="2" style="background: #E0F2B6; {{roundy|1em}}" | [[File:061Poliwhirl.png|96px]] {{color2|000|Poliwhirl (Pokémon)|Poliwhirl}}
| style="background: #E0F2B6; {{roundy|1em}}" | [[File:062Poliwrath.png|96px]] {{color2|000|Poliwrath (Pokémon)|Poliwrath}}
|-
| style="background: #E0F2B6; {{roundy|1em}}" | [[File:186Politoed.png|96px]] {{color2|000|Politoed (Pokémon)|Politoed}}
|-
| colspan="5" |
|}
|}

=====Advantages=====
A major difference between the final forms of an evolution family with a branch in evolution is in the way that their [[base stats]] line up. For example, {{p|Kirlia}} can evolve into both {{p|Gardevoir}} and {{p|Gallade}}, which both have 518 total base stats. However, Gallade's base stat in {{stat|Attack}} is 125 and its base stat in {{stat|Special Attack}} is 65. The reverse is true for Gardevoir, whose Special Attack is 125 and whose Attack is 65. This is true of many opposing evolutions, with one focusing in one specific stat, the other focusing in a separate stat, and both having the same total stats. This is especially obvious in the [[Eeveelution]]s, who each have exactly the same base stats, though organized differently.

A listing of the stat focuses is below.

{| style="margin:auto; text-align:center; background: #C4E673; {{roundy|10px}}; border: 5px solid #E0F2B6"
|-
! colspan="2" style="background: #C4E673; {{roundytl|5px}}" | Basic form
! colspan="2" style="background: #C4E673;" | Evolutions
! colspan="2" style="background: #C4E673;" | Types
! style="background: #C4E673; {{roundytr|5px}}" | Difference
|- style="background: #fff"
| rowspan="2" | {{MSP|043|Oddish}}
| rowspan="2" | {{p|Oddish}}
| {{MSP|045|Vileplume}}
| {{p|Vileplume}}
| style="background:#{{grass color}}" | {{color2|FFF|Grass (type)|Grass}}
| style="background:#{{poison color}}" | {{color2|FFF|Poison (type)|Poison}}
| Defense is 85, Special Attack is 110, Special Defense is 90
|- style="background: #fff"
| {{MSP|182|Bellossom}}
| {{p|Bellossom}}
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{grass color}}" | {{color2|FFF|Grass (type)|Grass}}
| Defense is 95, Special Attack is 90, Special Defense is 100
|- style="background: #fff"
| rowspan="2" | {{MSP|060|Poliwag}}
| rowspan="2" | {{p|Poliwag}}
| {{MSP|062|Poliwrath}}
| {{p|Poliwrath}}
| style="background:#{{water color}}" | {{color2|FFF|Water (type)|Water}}
| style="background:#{{fighting color}}" | {{color2|FFF|Fighting (type)|Fighting}}
| Defense is 20 higher, Attack is 20 higher
|- style="background: #fff"
| {{MSP|186|Politoed}}
| {{p|Politoed}}
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{water color}}" | {{color2|FFF|Water (type)|Water}}
| Special Attack is 20 higher, Special Defense is 10 higher
|- style="background: #fff"
| rowspan="2" | {{MSP|079|Slowpoke}}
| rowspan="2" | {{p|Slowpoke}}
| {{MSP|080|Slowbro}}
| {{p|Slowbro}}
| style="background:#{{water color}}" | {{color2|FFF|Water (type)|Water}}
| style="background:#{{psychic color}}" | {{color2|FFF|Psychic (type)|Psychic}}
| Defense is 110, Special Defense is 80
|- style="background: #fff"
| {{MSP|199|Slowking}}
| {{p|Slowking}}
| style="background:#{{water color}}" | {{color2|FFF|Water (type)|Water}}
| style="background:#{{psychic color}}" | {{color2|FFF|Psychic (type)|Psychic}}
| Special Defense is 110, Defense is 80
|- style="background: #fff"
| rowspan="8" | {{MSP|133|Eevee}}
| rowspan="8" | {{p|Eevee}}
| {{MSP|134|Vaporeon}}
| {{p|Vaporeon}}
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{water color}}" | {{color2|FFF|Water (type)|Water}}
| Highest stat is HP
|- style="background: #fff"
| {{MSP|135|Jolteon}}
| {{p|Jolteon}}
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{electric color}}" | {{color2|FFF|Electric (type)|Electric}}
| Highest stat is Speed
|- style="background: #fff"
| {{MSP|136|Flareon}}
| {{p|Flareon}}
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{fire color}}" | {{color2|FFF|Fire (type)|Fire}}
| Highest stat is Attack
|- style="background: #fff"
| {{MSP|196|Espeon}}
| {{p|Espeon}}
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{psychic color}}" | {{color2|FFF|Psychic (type)|Psychic}}
| Highest stat is Special Attack, tied with Glaceon
|- style="background: #fff"
| {{MSP|197|Umbreon}}
| {{p|Umbreon}}
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{dark color}}" | {{color2|FFF|Dark (type)|Dark}}
| Highest stat is Special Defense, tied with Sylveon
|- style="background: #fff"
| {{MSP|470|Leafeon}}
| {{p|Leafeon}}
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{grass color}}" | {{color2|FFF|Grass (type)|Grass}}
| Highest stat is Defense
|- style="background: #fff"
| {{MSP|471|Glaceon}}
| {{p|Glaceon}}
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{ice color}}" | {{color2|FFF|Ice (type)|Ice}}
| Highest stat is Special Attack, tied with Espeon
|- style="background: #fff"
| {{MSP|700|Sylveon}}
| {{p|Sylveon}}
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{fairy color}}" | {{color2|FFF|Fairy (type)|Fairy}}
| Highest stat is Special Defense, tied with Umbreon
|- style="background: #fff"
| rowspan="3" | {{MSP|236|Tyrogue}}
| rowspan="3" | {{p|Tyrogue}}
| {{MSP|106|Hitmonlee}}
| {{p|Hitmonlee}}
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{fighting color}}" | {{color2|FFF|Fighting (type)|Fighting}}
| Attack is 120, Defense is 52, Speed is 87
|- style="background: #fff"
| {{MSP|107|Hitmonchan}}
| {{p|Hitmonchan}}
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{fighting color}}" | {{color2|FFF|Fighting (type)|Fighting}}
| Attack is 105, Defense is 79, Speed is 76
|- style="background: #fff"
| {{MSP|237|Hitmontop}}
| {{p|Hitmontop}}
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{fighting color}}" | {{color2|FFF|Fighting (type)|Fighting}}
| Attack is 95, Defense is 95, Speed is 70
|- style="background: #fff"
| rowspan="2" | {{MSP|265|Wurmple}}
| rowspan="2" | {{p|Wurmple}}
| {{MSP|267|Beautifly}}
| {{p|Beautifly}}
| style="background:#{{bug color}}" | {{color2|FFF|Bug (type)|Bug}}
| style="background:#{{flying color}}" | {{color2|FFF|Flying (type)|Flying}}
| Attack and Special Attack higher than Defense and Special Defense
|- style="background: #fff"
| {{MSP|269|Dustox}}
| {{p|Dustox}}
| style="background:#{{bug color}}" | {{color2|FFF|Bug (type)|Bug}}
| style="background:#{{poison color}}" | {{color2|FFF|Poison (type)|Poison}}
| Defense and Special Defense higher than Attack and Special Attack
|- style="background: #fff"
| rowspan="2" | {{MSP|280|Ralts}}
| rowspan="2" | {{p|Ralts}}
| {{MSP|282|Gardevoir}}
| {{p|Gardevoir}}
| style="background:#{{psychic color}}" | {{color2|FFF|Psychic (type)|Psychic}}
| style="background:#{{fairy color}}" | {{color2|FFF|Fairy (type)|Fairy}}
| Special Attack is 125, Attack is 65
|- style="background: #fff"
| {{MSP|475|Gallade}}
| {{p|Gallade}}
| style="background:#{{psychic color}}" | {{color2|FFF|Psychic (type)|Psychic}}
| style="background:#{{fighting color}}" | {{color2|FFF|Fighting (type)|Fighting}}
| Attack is 125, Special Attack is 65
|- style="background: #fff"
| rowspan="2" | {{MSP|361|Snorunt}}
| rowspan="2" | {{p|Snorunt}}
| {{MSP|362|Glalie}}
| {{p|Glalie}}
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{ice color}}" | {{color2|FFF|Ice (type)|Ice}}
| All stats are 80
|- style="background: #fff"
| {{MSP|478|Froslass}}
| {{p|Froslass}}
| style="background:#{{ice color}}" | {{color2|FFF|Ice (type)|Ice}}
| style="background:#{{ghost color}}" | {{color2|FFF|Ghost (type)|Ghost}}
| HP, Defense, Special Defense each 10 lower, Speed 30 higher
|- style="background: #fff"
| rowspan="2" | {{MSP|366|Clamperl}}
| rowspan="2" | {{p|Clamperl}}
| {{MSP|367|Huntail}}
| {{p|Huntail}}
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{water color}}" | {{color2|FFF|Water (type)|Water}}
| Attack is 104, Special Attack is 94
|- style="background: #fff"
| {{MSP|368|Gorebyss}}
| {{p|Gorebyss}}
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{water color}}" | {{color2|FFF|Water (type)|Water}}
| Attack is 84, Special Attack is 114
|-
| style="background:#fff; {{roundybl|5px}}" rowspan="4" | {{MSP|412|Burmy}} {{MSP|412G|Burmy}} {{MSP|412S|Burmy}}
| style="background: #fff" rowspan="4" | {{p|Burmy}}
| style="background: #fff" | {{MSP|413|Wormadam}}
| style="background: #fff"|{{p|Wormadam}}
| style="background:#{{bug color}}" | {{color2|FFF|Bug (type)|Bug}}
| style="background:#{{grass color}}" | {{color2|FFF|Grass (type)|Grass}}
| style="background: #fff"|Special Attack and Special Defense higher by 10
|-
| style="background: #fff" | {{MSP|413G|Wormadam}}
| style="background: #fff"|{{p|Wormadam}}
| style="background:#{{bug color}}" | {{color2|FFF|Bug (type)|Bug}}
| style="background:#{{ground color}}" | {{color2|FFF|Ground (type)|Ground}}
| style="background: #fff"|Attack and Defense higher by 10
|-
| style="background: #fff"|{{MSP|413S|Wormadam}}
| style="background: #fff"|{{p|Wormadam}}
| style="background:#{{bug color}}" | {{color2|FFF|Bug (type)|Bug}}
| style="background:#{{steel color}}" | {{color2|FFF|Steel (type)|Steel}}
| style="background: #fff"|Equal special and physical stats
|-
| style="background:#fff; " | {{MSP|414|Mothim}}
| style="background: #fff"|{{p|Mothim}}
| style="background:#{{bug color}}" | {{color2|FFF|Bug (type)|Bug}}
| style="background:#{{flying color}}" | {{color2|FFF|Flying (type)|Flying}}
| style="background:#fff; {{roundybr|5px}}" | Lower Defenses but higher HP, Attacks, and Speed
|}

==Methods of evolution==
{{main|Methods of evolution}}
The various triggers for a Pokémon's evolution are almost as varied as the Pokémon themselves, and some Pokémon have a unique evolution method. The most common of them is Evolution by leveling up at or above a certain level. Other methods include the following:
*leveling up when [[friendship]] has reached {{tt|a high level|a friendship of 220 or greater}}
*leveling up while holding an item
*leveling up while knowing a certain move or a move of a certain type.
*leveling up in a certain location
*[[trade|trading]] the Pokémon
*trading the Pokémon while [[evolution-inducing held item|holding an item]]
*trading the [[Karrablast (Pokémon)|Pokémon]] for specific [[Shelmet (Pokémon)|Pokémon]]
*using an [[evolutionary stone]] on it.
*leveling up with a certain Pokémon or Pokémon of a certain type in the party.

Additionally, holding an {{evostone|Everstone}} prevents a Pokémon from evolving, as well as surprising a Pokémon via the B Button. The latter method is known as "Evolution cancellation".

Pokémon that get [[Fainting|knocked out]] during a {{pkmn|battle}} will evolve at the end of that battle if its requirements have been met. However, before [[Generation VI]], losing a battle would make Pokémon not evolve even if the conditions have been met.

Pokémon that can evolve into more than one Pokémon will usually have the ways in which the evolution is activated being slightly similar, such as having both being initiated by [[evolutionary stone]] or by trading while [[held item|holding an item]]. Closely-related Pokémon, such as {{p|Nidoran♀}} and {{p|Nidoran♂}}, will also have very similar, if not identical, evolution methods.

Some Pokémon have different evolutions depending on their gender. For example, only female {{p|Combee}} can evolve into {{p|Vespiquen}}; male Combee cannot evolve at all. Meanwhile, {{p|Snorunt}} can evolve into {{p|Glalie}}, but females ones have the option of evolving into {{p|Froslass}} instead. This instance occurs in a similar way with {{p|Kirlia}}, albeit with males having split evolution instead.

Also, there have been situations in which the current party must be configured in a specific manner for some Pokémon to evolve. So far, only three Pokémon need to have these special requirements. {{p|Mantyke}} will evolve into {{p|Mantine}} if leveled up with a {{p|Remoraid}} in the player's party. {{p|Nincada}} will evolve into {{p|Ninjask}} when it reaches level 20. However, if there happens to be an empty space in the player's party (and a spare [[Poké Ball]] in Generation IV onward), a {{p|Shedinja}} will also appear in the party. {{p|Pancham}} evolves into {{p|Pangoro}} if its level is 32 or higher and there is a Dark-type Pokémon in the player's party.

Some Pokémon evolve in other unique ways. If one trades a {{p|Karrablast}} for a {{p|Shelmet}}, they will evolve into {{p|Escavalier}} and {{p|Accelgor}}, respectively, though neither will evolve if one of them holds an {{evostone|Everstone}}. When {{p|Inkay}} reaches level 30, the player must hold the [[Nintendo 3DS|3DS]] upside-down for it to evolve into {{p|Malamar}}. Also introduced was a weather-based evolution: {{p|Sliggoo}} will evolve into {{p|Goodra}} beginning at level 50 only if it is [[rain]]ing in the area that the player is in. Finally, {{p|Sylveon}} can only be obtained be leveling up an {{p|Eevee}} that knows any {{type|Fairy}} moves and has at least two hearts of affection in [[Pokémon-Amie]].

==In the anime==
[[File:Slowking evolution anime.png|thumb|right|{{p|Slowpoke}} and {{p|Shellder}} evolving into {{p|Slowking}} in ''[[EP260|A Crowning Achievement]]'']]
[[File:Kakuna evolution anime.png|thumb|200px|left|{{p|Kakuna}} evolving into {{p|Beedrill}} in ''[[EP004|Challenge of the Samurai]]'']]
[[File:Shelmet evolution Best Wishes.png|thumb|200px|right|Evolution in the {{series|Best Wishes}}]]
In the anime, Evolution happens in much the same way as it does in the games; though [[level]]-based evolutions and [[trade]]-based evolutions do not occur using those methods, there are similarities in the way they come about. For example, {{an|Misty}}'s {{p|Poliwhirl}} evolved into {{TP|Misty|Politoed}} because it found {{Ash}}'s {{DL|Evolution-inducing held item|King's Rock}} and was holding it when Misty sent it out, while in the games it is required that Poliwhirl be traded while holding the King's Rock for the evolution to take place (It should be noted that Poliwhirl had been through a machine in connection with it being healed at the Pokémon Center, while holding the item). When a {{p|Beedrill}} attacked Ash's {{p|Metapod}}, it caused a crack to appear on its shell, which {{AP|Butterfree}} came out of.

Additionally, a difference can be seen in the fact that Pokémon evolve ''during'' a battle, as opposed to after it. Pokémon may also evolve when they are needed to, for an extra boost of power, instead of after a set amount of training, such as when Ash's {{p|Charmeleon}} evolved into {{AP|Charizard}}. In addition, Pokémon can sometimes choose not to evolve, even if they evolve by a 'natural' method such as leveling up. It appears that Evolution has emotional implications for Pokémon - some Pokémon, such as Team Rocket's {{MTR}}, dislike their evolved forms, while others such as Ash's {{AP|Pikachu}} simply want to prove they can be powerful without evolving. Conversely, when Pokémon do evolve, this can often be linked with an experience that causes them to mature emotionally or deal with an emotional issue, such as when the {{p|Poochyena}} in ''[[AG011|A Bite to Remember]]'' evolved, or the {{p|Paras}} in ''[[EP044|The Problem With Paras]]''. Poochyena, for some reason, had an aversion to using the move {{m|Bite}}, while Paras was extremely timid and weak in battle. Both of them evolved shortly after overcoming these issues.

For a list of all evolutions that Pokémon belonging to the main cast have undergone, see [[List of anime Pokémon by evolution]].

==In the TCG==
{{main|Evolution (TCG)}}
Evolution in the TCG functions similarly in many aspects to that of the games, however, there is no different requirement that needs to be met depending on the Pokémon species to be evolved to move on to the next stage.

There are four different stages of evolution in the TCG, Baby Pokémon, Basic Pokémon, Stage 1 Pokémon, and Stage 2 Pokémon. Of these, only Baby and Basic Pokémon may be placed onto the Bench during the setup phase and during play; Stage 1 and Stage 2 Pokémon are considered to be evolution cards and therefore unable to be played except on top of their corresponding pre-evolved forms. The stage of evolution is indicated in a conspicuous place on each and every Pokémon card, though the placement differs among the four generations of cards.

Within the deck and discard pile, only Stage 1 and Stage 2 cards are considered to be "evolution cards" for the purpose of a Trainer card or Pokémon Power which allows them to be searched for. In play, a Basic Pokémon card can be considered an evolution card if it is evolved from its Baby stage.

==In relation to the real world==
Evolution in Pokémon, for most species, is more akin to {{wp|metamorphosis}} than to {{wp|evolution|actual evolution}}. This is because real life evolution happens to a population rather than to individuals, and happens over much larger time scales than in the Pokémon world. In the Pokémon Adventures manga, it is mentioned that Pokémon Evolution is an entirely separate phenomenon from the normal process of evolution, and is a mysterious ability exclusive to Pokémon that is still not fully understood.

However, this does not necessarily mean that evolution in real-world terms does not exist in the Pokémon world; the existence of "extinct" Pokémon backs this up, or also in the alternately colored Pokémon of the Orange Archipelago; {{p|Magikarp}} is apparently much weaker than its prehistoric ancestors, showing a genetic change in the Magikarp population.

==Trivia==
*{{p|Eevee}} and {{p|Feebas}} are the only two Pokémon that reach their next evolutionary forms in multiple ways. Whereas in the handheld games, Eevee becomes {{p|Espeon}} or {{p|Umbreon}} with high [[friendship]] when leveled up depending on the [[time]] of day, in {{Pokémon XD}} it evolves when raised a level when the [[Sun Shard]] or [[Moon Shard]] is in the [[bag]]. This is because Pokémon XD, like {{g|Colosseum}} and {{game|FireRed and LeafGreen|s}}, lacks a time function. Feebas, meanwhile, evolves into {{p|Milotic}} when its [[Beauty (condition)|Beauty condition]] is high, which cannot be done in the [[Generation V]] or {{gen|VI}} games unless the Feebas is native to a [[Generation III]] or {{gen|IV}} game and has had its Beauty raised to maximum prior to use of [[Poké Transfer]] to send it forward from Generation IV's games. Due to this, the {{DL|Evolution-inducing held item|Prism Scale}} was introduced, so that Feebas caught in the wild or bred in [[Generation V]] onward would be able to evolve freely.

==In other languages==
{{langtable|color=C4E673|bordercolor=E0F2B6
|zh_yue=進化 ''Jeunfa''
|zh_cmn=進化 / 进化 ''Jìnhuà''
|de=Entwicklung
|fi=Evoluutio Muodonmuutos Kehitys
|fr_ca=Évolution
|fr_eu=Évolution
|id=Evolusi
|it=Evoluzione
|ko=진화 ''Jinhwa''
|pl=Ewolucja
|pt_eu=Evolução
|es_la=Evolución
|es_eu=Evolución
|sv=Utveckling
|da=Udvikling
}}

==See also==
* [[List of Pokémon by evolution family]]
* [[List of Pokémon with cross-generational evolutions]]
* [[Form differences]]
{{training}}

[[Category:Pokémon world]]
[[Category:Terminology]]
[[Category:Game mechanics]]

[[it:Evoluzione]]
[[pt:Evolução]]

[[de:Entwicklung]]
[[fr:Évolution]]
[[ja:進化]]
[[pl:Ewolucja]]
[[zh:进化]]

Talk:Trevor

2014-08-16T04:33:09Z

Pokemonisawesome2: /* Georgsenge town (or whatever its called) */

== Korean name for Trevor ==

His Korean name is 트로바 ''Teuroba''.
* It's related to the Japanese name in that it's based on ''trovare'', but the Korean transliteration of it (트로바레 ''teurobare''). -- [[User:Nick15|Nick15]] ([[User talk:Nick15|talk]]) 23:21, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

== Pokédex Battles ==

Is it possible to lose a Pokédex Battle with Trevor? [[User:StephenWalker97|StephenWalker97]] ([[User talk:StephenWalker97|talk]]) 12:18, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

:based on the quotes it seems as long as you agree to it you win I had only 6 or 8 moutain kalos pokemon and he still said he lost so I would say no [[User:Pokemonisawesome2|Pokemonisawesome2]] ([[User talk:Pokemonisawesome2|talk]]) 04:24, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

== Georgsenge town (or whatever its called) ==

In my pokemon Y after catching mewtwo trevor was in said town and asked if i had caught mewtwo and I believe he said he had too. should this be added? but someone should double check. and wouldnt this mean there are multiple mewtwos? or mabey I am just imaganing this whole thing I will check on my X in which I just got mewtwo

now in X hes just talking about banettes mega evonig [[User:Pokemonisawesome2|Pokemonisawesome2]] ([[User talk:Pokemonisawesome2|talk]]) 04:33, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

Talk:Trevor

2014-08-16T04:31:06Z

Pokemonisawesome2:

Talk:Trevor

2014-08-16T04:24:32Z

Pokemonisawesome2: /* Pokédex Battles */

Talk:Friend Safari

2014-08-16T04:21:39Z

Pokemonisawesome2:

==Page Creation==
Will somebody that can make pages actually start this so we can edit it or give me permission to? The friend safari is actually a very fascinating place that needs to be covered! [[User:ViperByte|ViperByte]] ([[User talk:ViperByte|talk]]) 17:47, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
:Didn't even see this message until I went and did it..... Problem solved. [[User:Schiffy|Schiffy]] ([[User_talk:Schiffy|Speak to me]]|[[Special:Contributions/Schiffy|What I've done]]) 20:03, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

== Pokémon not obtainable anywhere but the Friend Safari ==
When adding locations to Pokémon articles, what do we do about these kinds of Pokémon? For example, I have X where Pupitar is unavailable. I caught one in the Friend Safari. Do we put that it's available in both games via Friend Safari? Also, a friend of mine got a Charmeleon from the Friend Safari. Do we list that as a location too? The thing is, everyone gets different Pokémon so that's where I'm not sure. ☆[[User:Solar Dragon|The]] [[User talk:Solar Dragon|Solar]] [[Special:Contributions/Solar Dragon|Dragon]]☆ 20:11, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
:I'm going to answer with my own opinion using both examples you've given.
:*For Pupitar, I would say for both X and Y have "Friend Safari" and "Evolve Larvitar" as options, and for Y only, have the locations it can appear in naturally (Route 18 and Terminus Cave, I believe) in addition.
:*For Charmeleon, I would say to have "Evolve Charmander" and "Friend Safari" for both games, and leave it at that, since those are the only two ways in either game that it can be obtained.
:Anyway, this is just one opinion, but I would say to only ever have "Trade" as an option if there isn't another way to obtain it (besides Evolution), for example, this. [[User:Schiffy|Schiffy]] ([[User_talk:Schiffy|Speak to me]]|[[Special:Contributions/Schiffy|What I've done]]) 20:16, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

IMHO, I don't think we should list the Friend Safari as a 'game location' for any species, pretty much ever. My reasoning for this is:
* Friend Safari is not like previous Safari Zones with a fixed selection of wild Pokémon that you can catch all of; it is not like [[Pokéwalker]] or [[Pokémon Dream World]] of previous games either. Because ''what'' you can catch depends on ''who'' is registered in your 3DS Friend List (requiring personal exchange of Friend Codes), we can never guarantee that a specific Pokemon ''will'' be available in a ''specific'' player's game.
* While we obviously do not have a full list, so far almost ''any'' non-legendary Pokémon (including wild [[starter Pokémon]]) can be caught in the Friend Safari with the correct friends registered. So for Pokemon that are more likely to be acquired via evolution (e.g. {{p|Fletchinder}}), mentioning Friend Safari is about as notable as mentioning that you can acquire a Pokemon from the [[GTS]].

--''[[User:Stratelier|Stratelier]]'' 20:02, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
::Given that the amount of Pokémon unavailable in X & Y is over 100 and given the fact that many Pokémon in X & Y cannot be caught there, I think it's relevant to mention it where applicable. We list Regirock, Regice and Registeel being catchable in Platinum despite needing an event Pokémon that can no longer be acquired. Besides, listing the location of all these Pokémon as Trade would imply that they can't be caught in Gen VI at all to at least some people. - [[User:Blazios|Blazios]] [[User Talk:Blazios|talk]] 22:01, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
:::I agree with Blazios, with the added stipulation that I think we should treat it like the Dream World in Gen 5: mention it ''only'' if the Pokemon is not otherwise available in-game. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 22:08, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
::::We mentioned every single occurrence of a Pokémon appearing in the Dream World in Gen V and continue to list them even though they're gone forever, I don't see why this should be any different. I do think the template could use a slight tweaking for it, especially for Pokémon that are version exclusive outside the Friend Safari but available in both versions otherwise. Omitting the information from articles completely for Pokémon that are otherwise obtainable would imply that the Pokémon can't be found in Gen VI with its Hidden Ability (not counting Pokémon found in Hordes and their relatives, naturally). - [[User:Blazios|Blazios]] [[User Talk:Blazios|talk]] 18:36, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
:::::Ah; I was mistaken on how we treated the Dream World, then. (Did we used to do it the way I said, and then switched to having a separate row for it? I'm not sure how else I could've gotten confused about that...) In that case, why not follow the Dream World/Pal Park's example and make a separate row in the template for the Friend Safari? That's the easiest and most reader-friendly way I can think to incorporate the version exclusivity question you mentioned and to prevent clutter for Pokemon that appear both in FS and in-game. Then, in later versions, if the Friend Safari availability is the same, we can treat it as we currently do the Dream World and Pal Park; and if it's different, we can rename the row "Friend Safari{{sup/6|XY}}" and add a row for the other version(s). [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 18:46, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
::::::I suppose it would be possible to have it under a separate header like the Dream World and then list the Safari type in the location? - [[User:Blazios|Blazios]] [[User Talk:Blazios|talk]] 20:34, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
(reset)

I'm going to repeat what I wrote at [[User talk:Force Fire#Friend Safari as a location|Force Fire's talk page]].

My suggestion is that any Pokémon catchable in a Friend Safari is notated as such, perhaps with a note stating that the Pokémon in each friend's Safari is random and is based on friend code. Thus, all 216 Pokémon (guessing there are 12 of each of the 18 types, some may be fewer) would be listed as Friend Safari with a note explaining the circumstances, and that listing is identical for all 216.

The reason I take this stance is because all Pokémon CAN be found there. We should be listing where Pokémon CAN potentially be found, not excluding entries because they must be found through a friend with the correct Safari to find it in. USers who have no friends (sad as that sounds, it does happen with younger players quite often since they're not as wired to the Internet and have very few fellow players to play with) will only find the three in their own Safaris. [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 04:27, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
:I'm all for this suggestion. As I've said before, I think it would be incredibly lax of the wiki that aims for comprehensive articles on Pokémon games to blatantly disregard such a large feature of X & Y on so many articles. - [[User:Blazios|Blazios]] [[User Talk:Blazios|talk]] 04:41, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
::I was under the impression{{tt|*|I don't have X/Y and I'm vaguely trying to avoid spoilers, so my knowledge is indirect and incomplete.}} that the Friend Safari only had a selection of Pokemon, and not "almost any non-legendary"...But still, I would consider listing Friend Safari locations in a similar manner as the Dream World is currently listed to be a better solution than not listing the Friend Safari as a possible location at all. If I may have to do whatever amount of work, that's fine; just don't make me think that there's absolutely no way to get a Pokemon in Gen VI when I might be able to get it in the Friend Safari. If I know it's available in the Friend Safari, then I can decide whether I want to bother with that; but if you won't tell me, I can't even begin to make that decision. (And I have this thing about wanting to get as much as possible within whatever Generation I'm playing. So I definitely want to know.)
::And regarding if the Friend Safari changes in a Gen VI game after X/Y, it might be simpler to just handle it like a version exclusive Pokemon (like [[Gothita#Game locations|Gothita]]) and just say it's only in the Friend Safari in X/Y or only in Z (or whatever). [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 05:31, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
:::Actually, it occurs to me that the "problem" of variable Pokemon in the Friend Safari is very analogous to the situation with White Forest. Certainly the Friend Safari has more possible Pokemon, but the fact is that you also can't "guarantee" that any player will actually have a Pokemon listed as being in "White Forest" in their game. You have to do some work. Just like for the Friend Safari. Yet White Forest locations are listed. So too should Friend Safari locations be (in some manner, at least). [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 06:03, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
{{indent}} {{tt|Gonna respond to a few people at once here|Read: this conversation is a mess}}, so bear with me. 
As far as the initial issue goes, I've already given my opinion, and it's been expanded on plenty. There should certainly be something noted on the species pages, and this may be a whole lot easier once we learn more about what can show up. 
To Cyclone: Simple issue, but as far as I'm aware, you cannot access your ''own'' Friend Safari, only that of a person registered as your friend. So people with no friends are, for lack of a better term, SOL in that regard. 
To Tiddlywinks: As you can see, this list is still a work in progress. It seems, so far, we only have a fraction of what is available. What we do know is that it's based off of the friend code. This goes for type and the three Pokémon that are available. So if, for example, both me and say Cyclone were to resister you in our systems, we would both have access to the same type Safari with the same three Pokémon. At the current moment, that's really all we know. We haven't really been given evidence to say what ''can't'' show up. Yet, at the moment, it seems Legends are out, and starters from Gen II-V are not showing up. As far as finding out the remaining details, I did start a [http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/f693/friend-safari-formula-158298/ thread] a while back trying to solve this mystery, {{tt|but no one has given any response yet.|shameless bump}} [[User:Schiffy|Schiffy]] ([[User_talk:Schiffy|Speak to me]]|[[Special:Contributions/Schiffy|What I've done]]) 14:55, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
:Having looked around for a while, the list of Pokémon available is pretty much complete (I've seen people claim the existence of Lapras in the Water type Safari, though I can't confirm it myself. That's the single one I've seen that's missing from the list here). Serebii claims that each Pokémon is set to a specific spot on the Safari, meaning that some are unobtainable until the other person beats the Elite Four (we can't go copying from Serebii and would need to research this further, but I've yet to see a single Pokémon that contradicts his list), though aside from that we seem to have it all there. As we can see, this means that plenty of Pokémon don't appear here and, as I keep droning on about, not listing it is inconsistent with the way the wiki is with providing comprehensive information on articles. - [[User:Blazios|Blazios]] [[User Talk:Blazios|talk]] 17:12, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
::Replying to Schiffy: I'm not there yet, so I did not know that. This is very interesting.
::Otherwise I am backing what Blazios said. There is nothing comprehensive about excluding information on where Pokémon can be caught from their respective articles. [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 20:33, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
:::Tiddlywinks brought up a great point that I hadn't considered. The Friend Safari mechanic is very similar to the White Forest wild Pokémon. We should handle them both the same way. I would rather we list these Pokémon on both pages, but I also understand that we shouldn't let appearances in the Friend Safari stop the Pokémon from being considered version-exclusive. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 08:28, 20 November 2013 (UTC)
::::Any word on this? I've lost count of the amount of people who've tried to add this information to articles, assuming that we'd forgotten to add it. Unless someone wants to add a notice to the page of every single Pokémon that can be found in the Friend Safari, saying to not put that it can be found in the Friend Safari for some reason (in which case, why not spend the time adding the information to the articles). I still don't see the logic in not guaranteed to get=does not exist. - [[User:Blazios|Blazios]] [[User Talk:Blazios|talk]] 13:55, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
:::::{{u|Berrenta}} (and possibly others? but as far as I've noticed, mostly Berrenta) is continually removing these Friend Safari entries, but we have no solid consensus on this page, and in fact, the only admin to post here (SnorlaxMonster) just said we should handle them like White Forest — i.e., list them. What are we gonna do? [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 20:03, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
::::::I was removing because there's no guarantee a certain Pokémon will appear, like {{u|Stratelier}} mentioned earlier. If we are going to list Friend Safaris eventually, I'll be fine with that; I can always undo my own edits if needed. However, I'd suggest that if we are listing it, then it should have its own section of the template (like Dream World and Pal Park). For now, I can hold off the notices I was placing until there's a consensus. [[User:Berrenta|Berrenta]] ([[User talk:Berrenta|talk]]) 20:16, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
:::::::So what if there's no guarantee that the Pokémon will appear. By not saying that it can be found in the Friend Safari, it's like saying "this Pokémon can't be found in this game at all", which is wrong and misleading. It should be mentioned that it can be found in the Friend Safari. If someone doesn't understand the mechanics of the Friend Safari and doesn't know why they can't find that Pokémon, they can just read the page on it, which will be linked. If someone wants a Pokémon badly enough, they could keep adding friends until they find a Safari with that Pokémon and maybe even keep adding friends until they get all the Pokémon available. It should be mentioned on Pokémon pages that they can be found here. I feel that even if they are found elsewhere in the game, it should be mentioned too. It's an in-game location for the Pokémon and it's important. ☆[[User:Solar Dragon|The]] [[User talk:Solar Dragon|Solar]] [[Special:Contributions/Solar Dragon|Dragon]]☆ 20:40, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
::::::::You have a valid point there, Solar Dragon. I think we should bring this to a poll, either here or in the forums, so we all can decide who's in favor. [[User:Berrenta|Berrenta]] ([[User talk:Berrenta|talk]]) 20:59, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
:::::::::[http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/f195/friend-safari-pok%C3%A9mon-pages-159320/ I've made a thread here]. There's not a poll because I dislike polls and prefer discussion. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 04:46, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
{{indent}} I know I responded.... but it looks like the post was never approved.... [[User:Schiffy|Schiffy]] ([[User_talk:Schiffy|Speak to me]]|[[Special:Contributions/Schiffy|What I've done]]) 04:23, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
::Has anyone found Pokémon like Ratatta, which has not been listed? If not, then I think it should be a reason for listing Friend Safari in articles of Pokémon that can be found. Unless it is proven that every Pokémon can be found in the Friend Safari, it is best to list the Friend Safari in the game data. It isn't looking like Pal Park or Trading where you can get any Pokémon. It looks like just another area to find some Pokémon. [[User:SeanWheeler|SeanWheeler]] ([[User talk:SeanWheeler|talk]]) 00:48, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

Combining the data from [http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/f195/friend-safari-pok%C3%A9mon-pages-159320/ the forums], [[:#Pokémon not obtainable anywhere but the Friend Safari|this section]], and [[:#JP Guidebook info|the section below]] gives us a current tally. Note: The following is an assumption of the opinions that have been stated. --[[User:Super goku|Super goku]] ([[User talk:Super goku|talk]]) 06:09, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
* The users who have currently shown support for listing are [[User:SnorlaxMonster]], [[User:Berrenta]], [[User:Blazios]], [[User:Tiddlywinks]], [[User:Soulweaver]], [[User:Spriteit]], [[User:Maverick Nate]]/, [[User:Schiffy]], [[User:CycloneGU]],
* The users who have shown some support for listing in {{tt|specific cases|overriding the trade parameter, having a note placed, etc.}} are [[User:Schiffy]], [[User:Solar Dragon]], [[User:Crystal Talian]] [http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/f195/friend-safari-pok%C3%A9mon-pages-159320/#post5010515 (See here)], [[User:Pokemaster97]], [[User:Jo The Marten]] [http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/f195/friend-safari-pok%C3%A9mon-pages-159320/#post5011396 (See here)], [[User:SeanWheeler]], User:Chosen of Mana, User:Luna Tiger/, [[User:Pumpkinking0192]]
* The users who are opposed for listing are [[User:Stratelier]]
* I am unsure of the opinion of User:Muur

So with that tally and only one person opposing, can we please list Friend Safari? Now? There is no point in omitting it, especially when everyone has agreed to list it. [[User:SeanWheeler|SeanWheeler]] ([[User talk:SeanWheeler|talk]]) 18:12, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

Ok, I think we should put on Pokemon that can be caught in the Friend Safari that they can be caught in the Friend Safari. It would be less confusing for some people I guess. [[User:AwesomeGrovyle|AwesomeGrovyle]] ([[User talk:AwesomeGrovyle|talk]]) 19:59, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

:We should be able to list it soon, but we haven't been able to come to a clear decision on how to display it. From my guess nine are for the current idea, while nine others have a different idea. That would be the next thing to debate it would seem. --[[User:Super goku|Super goku]] ([[User talk:Super goku|talk]]) 03:49, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
::I still slightly prefer displaying it ''a la'' the Dream World in part because that seems like the simplest way (given our current templates) to display Pokémon that are version-exclusive outside FS but appear in both versions in FS. I have, however, seen a lot of logical arguments on the forum for displaying it ''a la'' White Forest, and I've been kind of convinced by the logical reasoning behind it, even if I'm doubtful about how clear the execution will be. Above all, I think the primary goal should be for version exclusivity to be completely clear and unambiguous. If that's accomplished, I don't care about the details of how we display it. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 04:07, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
:::Taking the example of the odd, almost-version-exclusive that is [[Petilil (Pokémon)#Game locations|Petilil]], you should be able to do something like this for (e.g.) [[Swirlix (Pokémon)#Game locations|Swirlix]].
{{Availability|
type=Fairy|
gen=6|
xyrarity=Uncommon{{sup/6|X}} [[Friend Safari]]|
xyarea={{rt|7|kalos}}{{sup/6|X}} Fairy-type Safari Slot 2|
}}
:::That seems clear enough to me. (I don't suppose that "Fairy-type Safari Slot 2" is the absolute best thing to have in there. Someone can probably think of something better.) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 05:27, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
::::Honest opinion, I would just make "Slot 2" into {{template|tt}} text. ({{tt|Fairy-type Safari|Slot 2/2nd Slot/Second Slot}}) --[[User:Super goku|Super goku]] ([[User talk:Super goku|talk]]) 05:34, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

There seems to be only 11 version exclusives in the Friend Safari: Throh, Sawk, Manectric, Pupitar, Cloyster, Pinsir, Heracross, Mightyena, Liepard, Spritzee and Swirlix. Whoa, looks like the version-exclusives would be reduced to half. But we can still put a note listing the version exclusives that appear in the Friend Safari on the version exclusives page. You guys are making it harder than it should. Just because some version exclusives can be found in the Friend Safari in both versions? The Caterpie and Weedle lines would have been version exclusives in Johto if it weren't for that Bug-Catching Contest. And Latias roams Hoenn in Sapphire and Kanto in HeartGold, while Latios roams Hoenn in Ruby and Kanto in SoulSilver. However, they can be caught in each other's game by an event item. And I don't think Friend Safari should be a special rarity. I think the Pokémon found there should be just considered rare. I really think Friend Safari should just be treated as well as any location. It is not a way to transfer Pokémon from previous games like Pal Park or an external thing like Dream World or the Pokéwalker. It is a legimate in-game way of getting Pokémon. You just need a Friend Code to enter. And that Friend doesn't necessarily have to have the Pokémon found in his/her Safari or agree to link with you. And while it is random, less than a third of the 718 Pokémon can be found in there. Others like Rattata can't be obtained. While I might be fine with having the asterisks, maybe put the type in the asterisk too, unless it is a single-typed, the type of Safari would be obvious. Although, Cascoon is found in the Poison type Safari even though it is a pure {{t|Bug}} type. [[User:SeanWheeler|SeanWheeler]] ([[User talk:SeanWheeler|talk]]) 17:12, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
::::I like the idea of "Friend Safari" having its own segment. I don't think "Slot 1" or "Slot 2", etc. are necessary, though for Slot 3 you might want to note that the Pokémon can only be found in a Safari belonging to someone who finished the game. No other notes regarding slots are necessary.
:I have more thoughts but am on the way out for the evening. I'll post more another time. Happy holidays! [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 21:20, 24 December 2013 (UTC)

Well I have not attended this conversation in forever, but currently I'm not universally against listing Pokemon as available in the Friend Safari (people are right: it is valid and useful information, especially for species that in XY only appear in the Friend Safari), just against listing it as the ''only'' place if there's a more direct way to obtain that species. The specific example that prompted my post was seeing {{p|Fletchinder}}'s page list ''only'' the Friend Safari as an in-game location, when it's clear that the player is more likely to actually obtain a Fletchinder by evolving a Fletchling (who is readily obtained in the Kalos wild). Pokemon species locations are generally listed starting from the "earliest" location/method they can be obtained in the given game, so if a page lists only the Friend Safari (or a [[trade]]) as a location, this presents an implication that it ''cannot be caught or obtained earlier than that'', which in Fletchinder's case is obviously not true. --''[[User:Stratelier|Stratelier]]'' 07:28, 4 February 2014 (UTC)
:{{DL|Talk:Friend Safari|Post-Christmas Update on This?|The admins have already made the decision to include the Friend Safari.}} It's just taking awhile to get the templates properly put together to accommodate it. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 16:50, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

:::::Reply regarding Contest and Lati - it's because, unlike Friend Safari, they're set and the same for every player. Friend Safari, on other hand, is all but fixed. [[User:Eridanus|Eridanus]] ([[User talk:Eridanus|talk]]) 17:03, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

== Finding the type based on Friend Code ==

So, it's clear that the type of a certain person's Friend Safari is based on their System's Friend Code, but what I'm curious to find out is if someone can find exactly how this is done. I could imagine the calculation isn't a world different from calculating whether a Pokémon will be Shiny based on its personality value or similar equations that have been used in games past. But if anyone can find it, it would be a useful addition to the article. [[User:Schiffy|Schiffy]] ([[User_talk:Schiffy|Speak to me]]|[[Special:Contributions/Schiffy|What I've done]]) 20:21, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

== Spreadsheet ==

This spreadsheet may assist you in figuring out what you have and don't have out of the Friend Safari. Tell me if you have any comments/suggestions/questions!

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B4hK...?usp=drive_web

Download away! (.xlsx) {{unsigned|Namelessdeath}}

== Friend Codes and Friend Safari Areas ==

Should we have separate Sub-Pages, or just somewhere on the page, to add Friend Codes for various different types so that we can add the type we want.--[[User:Ditto51|Tom]] ([[User_Talk:Ditto51|My Talk Page]]) 22:11, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
:Explaining how a friend code determines what type is in each person's Friend Safari is fine. Listing people's friend codes, or trading friend codes is something that's better left to the [http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/forum.php forums]. --[[User:Funktastic~!|'''It's''' '''Funktastic~!''']][[User talk:Funktastic~!|''話してください'']] 22:17, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
::I think if someone is ''willing'' to offer theirs for examples sake so we can figure out the relation, it might be okay to add.... [[User:Schiffy|Schiffy]] ([[User_talk:Schiffy|Speak to me]]|[[Special:Contributions/Schiffy|What I've done]]) 02:43, 30 October 2013 (UTC)
::Coming back to this, I've tried different manners of calculations combining XORs and Modulo 18s to see where it gets me, using the codes I have registered and the types they match up to. I've come up with no ascertainable pattern. If we can get a single forum thread going dedicated to finding the key with people who would, again, be willing to offer their codes for testing purposes, we ''just'' might get somewhere. [[User:Schiffy|Schiffy]] ([[User_talk:Schiffy|Speak to me]]|[[Special:Contributions/Schiffy|What I've done]]) 20:18, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
:::Actually, when the Join Avenue was new, [[Talk:Join_Avenue#Youngster_Janus|we did do something like this to get the data.]] I do not see the harm in pooling the data so long as everyone is alright with it. Otherwise we could just make a section for the sum of a Friend Code as AAAA-BBBB-CCCC and seeing if we can figure it out with only the sums of section A, B, and C. --[[User:Super goku|Super goku]] ([[User talk:Super goku|talk]]) 06:09, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

== IVs ==

Every pokemon I catch here has 2 random perfect IVs of 31. I don't think it's just me, it's gotta be a fact and worth sharing. [[User:DuelKING|DuelKING]] ([[User talk:DuelKING|talk]]) 19:36, 7 November 2013 (UTC)DuelKING[[User:DuelKING|DuelKING]] ([[User talk:DuelKING|talk]]) 19:36, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
:I can confirm this one (aside from the fact that Serebii had it, I've tested it plenty of times myself). What I've also noticed, but I'm not sure if this is an always, but two Pokémon in a row that I caught in the Safari also had two random really low IVs (the calculators I used all gave me 0-3 at Level 30 with no EVs, and I would not be surprised if they turned out to be just 0). [[User:Schiffy|Schiffy]] ([[User_talk:Schiffy|Speak to me]]|[[Special:Contributions/Schiffy|What I've done]]) 19:43, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
::The Pokemon always having two perfect IVs is true. The other part, having two really low IVs is not. Also, the IV checker in Kiloude's Pokemon Center will also tell you if they have 0 IVs. --[[User:Funktastic~!|'''It's''' '''Funktastic~!''']][[User talk:Funktastic~!|''話してください'']] 19:45, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
:::To build on this, it seems that the game will allow for three or more perfect IVs by chance, so I doubt there are stats forced lower by the Friend Safari. --[[User:Super goku|Super goku]] ([[User talk:Super goku|talk]]) 23:44, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
::::However, why doesn't the IVs show in super training? [[User:Superbobbobbob3|Superbobbobbob3]] ([[User talk:Superbobbobbob3|talk]]) 15:06, 8 November 2013 (UTC)
:::::Based on data I've seen from Friend Safari users in the chat room, most Pokémon run through the bot command !piv from the Safari tend to have three perfect IVs suggested, even though without training which three cannot be confirmed. Also, a few of these Pokémon have higher IVs in the ones that are not perfect, so the others are not necessarily lower. I'll have access to my Safari soon (which I've been told is Ghost, I have no idea why I got stuck with that) and I plan to catch some Pokémon and see what kind of numbers I end up with. [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 04:32, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
::::::Er, it's actually extremely easy to see which IVs are perfect without any training whatsoever. The IV guy is in the Pokemon Center in the same town, and he mentions every perfect IV. And having access to mine, it's a complete crapshoot whether the other IVs are good or not. I've had good to perfect in the others, and IVs that were 0. --[[User:Funktastic~!|'''It's''' '''Funktastic~!''']][[User talk:Funktastic~!|''話してください'']] 04:36, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
:::::::Yeah, I'm not there yet, so I keep forgetting that guy is there. I'll catch up soon. I have been taking my time trying to get data for the Wiki and not actually speeding through the game. I do have access to Victory Road but have yet to visit. [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 04:57, 17 November 2013 (UTC)

== Shiny Pokémon Chance Increased ==
I have noticed that various places have said that have found a shiny pokemon very easy in the friend safari (Clamed to be a 1/300 chance and in the friend safari it takes a lest 24 minuets to find one and five hours at the most.). This is some we should test out {{unsigned|Superbobbobbob3}}

==names==
I have noticed that the list with your friends on it will sometimes have different names on it than the ones used in their games. Where does the safari get your friends names from? {{Unsigned|Auragirl}}
:The names used in the Friend Safari match the names of the Mii on the 3DS corresponding to that person's code, rather than their X/Y character name. [[User:Schiffy|Schiffy]] ([[User_talk:Schiffy|Speak to me]]|[[Special:Contributions/Schiffy|What I've done]]) 15:32, 17 November 2013 (UTC)

== Hidden Abilities ==

From my own experience, Pokémon cannot be found with their Hidden Ability unless that Trainer has 3 Pokémon available (so has defeated the Champion then been online at the same time as you). I am weary about adding this though, as it is only from empirical tests, and is not conclusively known. It's very easy to falsify, not so easy to prove. If anyone has found a Pokémon with its Hidden Ability in the Friend Safari with only 2 Pokémon, please reply here. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 08:16, 20 November 2013 (UTC)
:I can test this. I have a large number of friends with only two Pokémon (not playing in other words) and am cruising around Safaris right now. If I get any hidden abilities I'll update with all details except for the user info (obviously). Meanwhile, the infobox is oddly stretched on the page; not sure if this can be fixed? [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 16:35, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
::Hidden Abilities are available if both people have been online in-game at the same time. If the character's silhouette has changed from ? to their in-game character portrait, then there's a chance for HAs to be obtained. I currently have at least one Safari where all 3 are available, but no HAs, and several where only 2 mons are available, but they're available with HAs. I've updated the relevant section with the correct information. [[User:Tathra|Tathra]] ([[User talk:Tathra|talk]]) 01:30, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
:::The way Tathra describes it here, it sounds like HAs are only obtainable while two players are online at the same time. However, SnorlaxMonster just changed it so that it sounds more like all that's needed to unlock the possibility of HAs is for the players to be online together once. Like, I could get online with a friend, save, then reset my game and play completely offline, and I'd still have a chance to find HAs in that friend's Friend Safari. Is that right? (This is what I assumed in the "massaging" I just did.) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 02:52, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
::::Tathra described it as both players having been online at the same time at some point, not currently being online at that time. The player silhouette changes once the players have been online at the same time, not while they are currently both online. You are correct in your second statement. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 02:55, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
:::::Ah, I mistook the meaning of the "?". I thought it was for a friend who's offline; I forgot they just have their picture dimmed down. So that made some of the rest of the wording seem to be at odds to me, too. Thanks. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 03:02, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
:The main part I'm trying to correct is that both players dont have to be online at the same time for the 3rd mon to be available. They likely have to have their 3ds online at the same time for the information to be passed that yes, this player has defeated the E4 and Champion (similar to how Streetpassing works - you dont have to be playing a game right then in order to use its streetpass fuction), but getting the 3rd slot does not require that both players be online in the game at the same time. In [http://imageshack.com/a/img809/1518/epg3.jpg this picture] you can see that all 3 mons are available, but the players image is just a silhouette with ?, meaning that I cant get HAs, because we have not been online in-game at the same time. If being online in-game at the same time was a requirement for the 3rd mon to be available, this situation would not be possible. [[User:Tathra|Tathra]] ([[User talk:Tathra|talk]]) 03:18, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
::I see. I'd really like to be able to say whether the 3DS/game can just pull the information out of "thin air" or whether you both have to have your 3DSs online at the same time, but in the absence of that knowledge, I suppose I'll leave it as is, for people to work out on their own. If that's not been updated before I meander my way to the end of the game, I'll have to find someone to test that requirement with. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 03:47, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
:::It'll be a hassle to orchestrate with somebody to have their 3ds offline after they add you, and to make sure neither of you are online at the same time. The easiest way to test it would be to have two 3dses. My money is on both people needing their 3dses connected to wifi at the same time for just a second, but its possible that the flag, if it exists at that time, is sent along with the confirmation that they've also added you as a friend. At any rate, it might not be necessary to state that both 3dses must be online at some point because its not really something you need to try to make happen. [[User:Tathra|Tathra]] ([[User talk:Tathra|talk]]) 04:33, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
::::I'm not really sure what you're thinking, above. What I want to know is what it takes for someone who sees a Friend Safari with two Pokemon to see that FS with three Pokemon once the other player has beaten the Elite Four. To set it up is easy: before I get to the Elite Four, I just need to become friends with someone(s), so they've got my Friend Safari with only two Pokemon in it. (I've actually already got a couple, now that I think about it. =P ) Then I'll beat the Elite Four and...I guess I'll try to connect online (just with my 3DS, while my game is ''not'' running) for a minute or two while they're not online. I'll see if that's possibly enough to let them see the third Pokemon the next time they connect online (while I'm offline); if not, then we can just try to be online (without our games - or mine at least - running) at the same time. QED [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 04:50, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

== Lapras and Shuppet ==

Can someone confirm if Lapras and Shuppet are available via Water and Ghost Safaris, respectively?

[[User:Katrinuh|Katrinuh]] ([[User talk:Katrinuh|talk]]) 00:47, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
:I can confirm Shuppet. --[[User:WyndFox|Wynd]] [[User talk:WyndFox|Fox]] 04:13, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

::I can confirm Lapras, but it is available in an Ice Safari, not a Water Safari. [[User:Plumbgirlie|Plumbgirlie]] ([[User talk:Plumbgirlie|talk]]) 00:26, 24 February 2014 (UTC)

== Not Listing in Avaliblity ==

According to [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Larvesta_(Pok%C3%A9mon)&diff=0&oldid=2024447 this edit], the wiki isn't listing Friend Safari. If no one minds me asking, why not? [[User:Tacopill|Tacopill]] ([[User talk:Tacopill|talk]]) 22:31, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
:Still discussing it. Not came to a conclusion. Look above, at the huge discussion. ☆[[User:Solar Dragon|The]] [[User talk:Solar Dragon|Solar]] [[Special:Contributions/Solar Dragon|Dragon]]☆ 22:35, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
::I hope we get a clear decision soon. I really don't like removing the Friend Safari listings, to be honest. Many of us have voiced our opinions on the matter. [[User:Berrenta|Berrenta]] ([[User talk:Berrenta|talk]]) 22:45, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
:::So if you personally don't like removing it, why do it? It makes you look like you are supporting the removal of Friend Safari entries. [[User:SeanWheeler|SeanWheeler]] ([[User talk:SeanWheeler|talk]]) 00:51, 2 December 2013 (UTC)
::::It's not because I support them. To be honest, I don't. It was only because there was the ongoing debate, and they didn't want it listed until a decision was made. [[User:Berrenta|Berrenta]] ([[User talk:Berrenta|talk]]) 00:58, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

== Shinies ==

Really, is there any way to determine whether or not the chances are higher than normal? It seems like lots of people have found shinies here (I found a shiny Boldore my first time in), which may or may not be significant? Is hacking necessary for numbers? -- [[User:Pringles|Pringles]] 05:33, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
:The shiny rate has apparently been doubled throughout the entire game, not just in the Friend Safari. See {{DL|Shiny Pokémon|Generation III onward|our Shiny Pokémon article}}. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 05:37, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
::(Six months is the limit, right?) Even taking the doubled rate through the entire game into consideration, the reports I've seen seem to have much higher rates than 1/4096, and this doesn't seem to just be a few people, either (it's happened to some friends, too). But, unless I'm missing something, would the only reliable way to confirm this be hacking? -- [[User:EnosShayrem|EnosShayrem]][[User_talk:EnosShayrem|talk]] 03:18, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
:::Yeah, but those high rates would be due to the Shiny Charm. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 13:34, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
The article says there is an increased chance, has this finally been verified? [[User:Yamitora1|Yamitora1]] ([[User talk:Yamitora1|talk]]) 03:41, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
:Like it says in the [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Friend_Safari&diff=2097075&oldid=2089494 history]. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 04:06, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
::Can we really say Smogon's independent research is a reliable source? '~' [[User:Me, Hurray!|Me, Hurray!]] ([[User talk:Me, Hurray!|talk]]) 13:49, 25 April 2014 (UTC)
:::Alot of Smogon's research is trusted here, given that, if I recall the reason correctly, while they may be a fan site, they often do conduct in-depth accurate research with more than enough proof to back it up. A staff member could explain it better than me, though. [[User:Schiffy|Schiffy (瀬藤健二)]] ([[User talk:Schiffy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Schiffy|Contribs]]) 13:53, 4/25/2014 (UTC)
::::It's a darn sight better than purely subjective anecdotes, that's for sure. I'm happy to bet on the likelihood that someone actually gathered real data for that over the possibility that someone faked it all. You can always feel free to try to convince me (/Bulbapedia) I'm wrong, though. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 00:53, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

== JP Guidebook info ==
{|
|-
! Type
! Slot 1
! Slot 2
! Slot 3
|-
| Normal
| Lillipup, Dunsparce, Teddiursa, Aipom
| Kecleon, Minccino, Loudred, Audino
| Eevee, Ditto, Smeargle, Chansey
|-
| Fire
| Ponyta, Growlithe, Pansear, Magmar
| Charmeleon, Pyroar, Slugma, Larvesta
| Braixen, Braixen, Fletchinder, Ninetales
|-
| Water
| Krabby, Bibarel, Panpour, Octillery
| Wartortle, Quagsire, Gyarados, Flowsel
| Frogadier, Frogadier, Azumarill, Poliwhirl
|-
| Grass
| Oddish, Tangela, Pansage, Sunkern
| Ivysaur, Petilil, Sawsbuck, Swadloon
| Quilladin, Quilladin, Maractus, Gogoat
|-
| Electric
| Electrode, Emolga, Dedenné, Pachirisu
| Pikachu, Helioptile, Electabuzz, Stunfisk
| Luxio, Galvantula, Zebstrika, Manectric
|-
| Ice
| Snorunt, Delibird, Spheal, Snover
| Bergmite, Bergmite, Sneasel, Beartic
| Lapras, Cloyster, Dewgong, Piloswine
|-
| Fighting
| Meditite, Mankey, Machoke, Mienfoo
| Pancham, Pancham, Throh, Sawk
| Hariyama, Tyrogue, Riolu, Breloom
|-
| Poison
| Kakuna, Cascoon, Seviper, Gloom
| Venomoth, Swalot, Garbodour, Ariados
| Toxicroak, Drapion, Muk, Whirlipede
|-
| Ground
| Phanpy, Wooper, Trapinch, Sandshrew
| Marowak, Camerupt, Dugtrio, Nincada
| Palpitoad, Gastrodon, Diggersby, Diggersby
|-
| Flying
| Pidgey, Spearow, Farfetch'd, Doduo
| Hoothoot, Tranquill, Swanna, Woobat
| Rufflet, Tropius, Fletchinder, Hawlucha
|-
| Psychic
| Abra, Drowzee, Grumpig, Munna
| Wobbuffet, Sigilyph, Espurr, Espurr
| Duosion, Xatu, Girafarig, Gothorita
|-
| Bug
| Butterfree, Combee, Lediba, Paras
| Beautifly, Masquerain, Volbeat, Illumise
| Vivillon, Venomoth, Pinsir, Heracross
|-
| Rock
| Dwebble, Dwebble, Nosepass, Boldore
| Pipitar, Corsola, Onix, Magcargo
| Rhydon, Shuckle, Barbaracle, Barbaracle
|-
| Ghost
| Shuppet, Shuppet, Lampent, Lampent
| Phantump, Phantump, Pumpkaboo, Pumpkaboo
| Golurk, Drifblim, Dusclops, Spiritomb
|-
| Dragon
| Gabite, Gabite, Fraxure, Fraxure
| Shelgon, Dragonair, Noibat, Noibat
| Druddigon, Druddigon, Sliggoo, Sliggoo
|-
| Dark
| Pawniard, Vullaby, Nuzleaf, Mightyena
| Sneasel, Sandile, Cacturne, Crawdaunt
| Liepard, Inkay, Absol, Sableye
|-
| Steel
| Ferroseed, Ferroseed, Mawile, Magneton
| Metang, Klang, Skarmory, Forretress
| Bronzong, Excadrill, Klefki, Klefki
|-
| Fairy
| Kirlia, Snubbull, Togepi, Dedenné
| Mawile, Jigglypuff, Spritzee, Swirlix
| Floette (Red), Clefairy, Floette (Yellow), Floette (Blue)
|}
:Slot 3 Pokemon will only appear if the registered friend has entered the Hall of Fame.
:Hidden Abilities will only appear if the registered friend has entered the Hall of Fame.
:Each choice in a slot has a 25% chance, so if something appears twice, it has a 50% chance.
:All listings are in the exact order they appear in the book.
:Hopefully this helps. [[User:Bluesun|Bluesun]] ([[User talk:Bluesun|talk]]) 02:27, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

::Yeah, it does help. Especially in the argument on whether or not to list the Friend Safari. [[User:SeanWheeler|SeanWheeler]] ([[User talk:SeanWheeler|talk]]) 21:36, 2 December 2013 (UTC)
:::This certainly seems like it should be added, but I'm wondering if at least one or two other people can confirm all of this to be safe. [[User:Schiffy|Schiffy]] ([[User_talk:Schiffy|Speak to me]]|[[Special:Contributions/Schiffy|What I've done]]) 22:11, 2 December 2013 (UTC)
::::Noticed the above table was worked in the page, and it looks great! I also agree with Sean: hopefully it can help us settle the debate. [[User:Berrenta|Berrenta]] ([[User talk:Berrenta|talk]]) 22:53, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

:::Any objections to from the opposition? Or should we go ahead and add Friend Safari to the appropriate Pokémon? [[User:SeanWheeler|SeanWheeler]] ([[User talk:SeanWheeler|talk]]) 23:22, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
::::I would say at this point, several days later, that there's no remaining opposition. I say be bold and go ahead, and if it gets reverted refer that user here to explain why they disagree. [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 08:30, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

:::::Well, Pokemaster has stopped me, and we're getting a debate on my [[User talk:SeanWheeler|talk page]]. It's still not over yet. And I'm really annoyed that even with this set list, there are still people who don't want it. We're lying of omission when we don't include the Friend Safari on the Pokémon pages. [[User:SeanWheeler|SeanWheeler]] ([[User talk:SeanWheeler|talk]]) 23:16, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
::::::Maybe we can include a "post-game" tag, to say it is not available there until after beating the game? [[User:Tacopill|Tacopill]] ([[User talk:Tacopill|talk]]) 23:50, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

{{indent}} Honestly, if people would pay attention, there has been a [http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/f195/friend-safari-pok%C3%A9mon-pages-159320/ thread] going for a while created by SnorlaxMonster. It's going to be ''far'' easier in the long run than arguing on 3 or more talk pages here. [[User:Schiffy|Schiffy]] ([[User_talk:Schiffy|Speak to me]]|[[Special:Contributions/Schiffy|What I've done]]) 02:53, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

Well, no one has replied to my last comment on that forum and I was asking how it can be decided. [[User:SeanWheeler|SeanWheeler]] ([[User talk:SeanWheeler|talk]]) 04:04, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
:Side note: I'm not a member of the forum and really think all conversations regarding the Wiki should happen ''ON THE WIKI''. And I still believe we need to have all Pokémon that CAN be found noted as such. [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 02:56, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
:Schiffy, you replied to this very topic on the 2nd. This was about the JP Guidebook and turned into a discussion on whether to include this or not. I will admit that these discussion should be tied into each other, [[:#Pokémon not obtainable anywhere but the Friend Safari|which I have attempted to do.]] --[[User:Super goku|Super goku]] ([[User talk:Super goku|talk]]) 06:09, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

== Post-Christmas Update on This? ==

Pokémon Bank releases today, so no matter what, all 718 currently known Pokémon can be moved into X/Y today. However, we still haven't settled the native issue of Friend Safari. The linked thread above has had no commentary since December 14. I think the time has come to '''be bold''' and make the changes. We also must maintain a central place ON THIS WIKI for anyone who still objects to be referred to to explain their reasons. The point I'm making is there is no objective reason that the information found CANNOT be included, so it's time to include it; the only thing to debate is how to make that information ''look'' in the end. And that we can continue to debate. It's time to add the information. [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 19:19, 27 December 2013 (UTC)
:Actually it was delayed due to problems with the eshop network, so currently only Pokémon from Kalos, Friend Safari and the few that were traded up in Japan before it was taken down are actually available--[[User:Ditto51|Ditto51/Tom]] ([[User_Talk:Ditto51|My Talk Page]]) 20:17, 27 December 2013 (UTC).
::All right, so Bank got delayed. We still need to decide the Friend Safari thing, and soon. [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 20:05, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
:::It has pretty much been decided that we will be including it. {{u|Kogoro}} has been working diligently on a [[User talk:Kogoro/Template/Availability|revamp of the Availability template]] in order to include the Friend Safari. Unfortunately, we can't simply snap our fingers and have all the information added instantly. It's important that this is done the correct way. Due to some unforeseen issues with the revamped template, it hasn't been implemented yet. We will be adding in Friend Safari in due time. Thank you for bearing with us so far, but I must ask you to be patient for just a bit longer as the template is worked out. ''[[User:Maverick Nate|'''Maverick''']][[User talk:Maverick Nate|'''Nate''']]'' 20:30, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
::::No problem, issues with the template is something I can understand. The problem will be fixed in due time and the information added. After all, there is no deadline for a Wiki. =) [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 20:53, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
:::::Good to hear there's a plan to incorporate Friend Safari. As long as the kinks are ironed out, we should be fine. The potential revamp looks pretty good so far. [[User:Berrenta|Berrenta]] ([[User talk:Berrenta|talk]]) 22:26, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

It's been two more months now. I understand that the Editorial Board had some restructuring or whatever and that could be a factor in the continued delay. But I'd just like an update.

Maverick Nate said above that there were some unforeseen issues with the revamped template, but Kogoro doesn't seem to have made any (significant) changes to it since that comment. Could someone elaborate on those issues? Perhaps someone else can contribute a solution. As it is, I don't even know why Friend Safari locations can't just be added to the current template immediately (in one format or another)... [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 15:59, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
:Well, it seems we got the new availability template worked out, and we are finally listing Friend Safari. It's good we finally got it going. I saw the new template as it was being incorporated, and it looks a little better than what we had before. [[User:Berrenta|Berrenta]] ([[User talk:Berrenta|talk]]) 19:16, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

== Location column ==

Is the Location Column really necessary, it seems a little redundant and pointless. All there is in the safari is grass, so it goes without saying where to find the Pokémon. [[User:Yamitora1|Yamitora1]] ([[User talk:Yamitora1|talk]]) 09:05, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
:You wouldn't be wrong, really, to argue that it is unnecessary, but it's also not really worth doing the work to remove that column either. The template currently being used is entirely sufficient and by no means egregiously bad, to need any "fixing". [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 09:18, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
::This by far isn't the only location in the games with only one way of finding wild Pokémon, another example in the same games is {{rt|2|Kalos}}, which also only has grass. As Tiddlywinks stated, there's no need to go messing with the entire template or using an entire different one for this location because of such a small factor. [[User:Schiffy|Schiffy (瀬藤健二)]] ([[User talk:Schiffy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Schiffy|Contribs]]) 16:56,1/13/2014 (UTC)

== Hidden Ability chances ==

For an offline friend I found that the chances to get the HA for Pokémon with 3 Abilities available is of 1/3rd. Sample is small (n=300) but the results are almost consistent with a distribution of 1:1:1. Results were:

* 1st Ability: 102
* 2nd Ability: 97
* Hid Ability: 101

I'll test the distribution for an online friend as soon as I can contact my best friend. We may be able to get a bigger sample and debunk or confirm that thing about HAs being more common when the owner of the safari is online. --[[User:Profesor Rod|Profesor Rod]] ([[User talk:Profesor Rod|talk]]) 04:46, 24 February 2014 (UTC)

:To be honest, this really doesn't surprise me all too much. Gen VI, from what I've seen, has taken what used to be "Hidden Abilities" and made them far far more common, essentially no more than a second or third (species dependent) regularly-obtainable Ability, the only exception ''maybe'' being when you obtain the starters (yet breeding seems to give about a 50/50 chance from what I've seen on videos). If I were to hazard a guess, the online results, if you get around to testing them, probably won't be too different. [[User:Schiffy|Schiffy (瀬藤健二)]] ([[User talk:Schiffy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Schiffy|Contribs]]) 07:07, 2/24/2014 (UTC)

== Encounter Rate ==

I tackled this question pretty much like the Hidden Abilities one, but this is faster to test since I don't need to wait for all those Trace messages. Still, there is a lot of statistical noise on each individual run but, assuming that encounter rates are the same no matter the safari's type, by seeing the whole sample it's pretty much a 1:1:1 distribution:

* '''Normal:''' Aipom:33 Loudred:33 Ditto:34
* '''Dragon:''' Fraxure:36 Dragonair:33 Sliggoo:31
* '''Fighting:''' Mienfoo:65 Pancham:61 Riolu:74
* '''Ice:''' Spheal:60 Bergmite:71 Piloswine:69
* '''''Total:''''' Slot1:194 Slot2:198 Slot3:208

Just for completeness sake I quickly checked safari with only 2 Pokémon and got:

* '''Water:''' Panpour:29 Floatzel:21
* '''Poison:''' Seviper:26 Garbodor:24
* '''Rock:''' Dwebble:26 Corsola:24
* '''Psychic:''' Munna:19 Espurr:31
* '''''Total:''''' Slot1:100 Slot2:100

There might be something in this last one, but with such a small sample I can't tell. An educated guess suggest a 1:1 distribution too but I'm not very interested in producing more data since most people go for the fully unlocked safaris. --[[User:Profesor Rod|Profesor Rod]] ([[User talk:Profesor Rod|talk]]) 11:09, 24 February 2014 (UTC)

== On to something about what the Friend Code determines==

I think I am on to something about how a players friend code effects the type of Friend Safari and the pokemon that appear. I have gotten good consistencies from a FS FC trading forum and a few quirks that I hope are just typos on the forum.

I would like to eventually share this information and even write a program that does this but I have a feeling it will take a while. [[User:Jmsnipes100|Jmsnipes100]] ([[User talk:Jmsnipes100|talk]]) 04:41, 10 March 2014 (UTC)

== Sneasle the only Pokémon found in two types of Safari? ==

I was searching a Ice Safari, and it had a Sneasle, I then went to a Dark Safari, it has a Sneasle as well. I looked up and down, and unless I missed it Sneasle seems to be the only Pokémon that appears in more than one type of Safari. Its almost 5am here, having a bout of insomnia but (I am more than tired, I just can't get to sleep for some reason) so its highly possible I am missing any other Pokémon that might be in another safari. [[User:Yamitora1|Yamitora1]] ([[User talk:Yamitora1|talk]]) 08:54, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
:Fletchinder and Venomoth. [[User:Glik|glik]][[User talk:Glik|glak]] 12:29, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

== Move to trivia ==

SHouldnt that part about it being the place were evos of starters can be caught be in the trivia? or is it just to importent. [[User:Pokemonisawesome2|Pokemonisawesome2]] ([[User talk:Pokemonisawesome2|talk]]) 04:20, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

Talk:Friend Safari

2014-08-16T04:20:50Z

Pokemonisawesome2:

==Page Creation==
Will somebody that can make pages actually start this so we can edit it or give me permission to? The friend safari is actually a very fascinating place that needs to be covered! [[User:ViperByte|ViperByte]] ([[User talk:ViperByte|talk]]) 17:47, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
:Didn't even see this message until I went and did it..... Problem solved. [[User:Schiffy|Schiffy]] ([[User_talk:Schiffy|Speak to me]]|[[Special:Contributions/Schiffy|What I've done]]) 20:03, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

== Pokémon not obtainable anywhere but the Friend Safari ==
When adding locations to Pokémon articles, what do we do about these kinds of Pokémon? For example, I have X where Pupitar is unavailable. I caught one in the Friend Safari. Do we put that it's available in both games via Friend Safari? Also, a friend of mine got a Charmeleon from the Friend Safari. Do we list that as a location too? The thing is, everyone gets different Pokémon so that's where I'm not sure. ☆[[User:Solar Dragon|The]] [[User talk:Solar Dragon|Solar]] [[Special:Contributions/Solar Dragon|Dragon]]☆ 20:11, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
:I'm going to answer with my own opinion using both examples you've given.
:*For Pupitar, I would say for both X and Y have "Friend Safari" and "Evolve Larvitar" as options, and for Y only, have the locations it can appear in naturally (Route 18 and Terminus Cave, I believe) in addition.
:*For Charmeleon, I would say to have "Evolve Charmander" and "Friend Safari" for both games, and leave it at that, since those are the only two ways in either game that it can be obtained.
:Anyway, this is just one opinion, but I would say to only ever have "Trade" as an option if there isn't another way to obtain it (besides Evolution), for example, this. [[User:Schiffy|Schiffy]] ([[User_talk:Schiffy|Speak to me]]|[[Special:Contributions/Schiffy|What I've done]]) 20:16, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

IMHO, I don't think we should list the Friend Safari as a 'game location' for any species, pretty much ever. My reasoning for this is:
* Friend Safari is not like previous Safari Zones with a fixed selection of wild Pokémon that you can catch all of; it is not like [[Pokéwalker]] or [[Pokémon Dream World]] of previous games either. Because ''what'' you can catch depends on ''who'' is registered in your 3DS Friend List (requiring personal exchange of Friend Codes), we can never guarantee that a specific Pokemon ''will'' be available in a ''specific'' player's game.
* While we obviously do not have a full list, so far almost ''any'' non-legendary Pokémon (including wild [[starter Pokémon]]) can be caught in the Friend Safari with the correct friends registered. So for Pokemon that are more likely to be acquired via evolution (e.g. {{p|Fletchinder}}), mentioning Friend Safari is about as notable as mentioning that you can acquire a Pokemon from the [[GTS]].

--''[[User:Stratelier|Stratelier]]'' 20:02, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
::Given that the amount of Pokémon unavailable in X & Y is over 100 and given the fact that many Pokémon in X & Y cannot be caught there, I think it's relevant to mention it where applicable. We list Regirock, Regice and Registeel being catchable in Platinum despite needing an event Pokémon that can no longer be acquired. Besides, listing the location of all these Pokémon as Trade would imply that they can't be caught in Gen VI at all to at least some people. - [[User:Blazios|Blazios]] [[User Talk:Blazios|talk]] 22:01, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
:::I agree with Blazios, with the added stipulation that I think we should treat it like the Dream World in Gen 5: mention it ''only'' if the Pokemon is not otherwise available in-game. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 22:08, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
::::We mentioned every single occurrence of a Pokémon appearing in the Dream World in Gen V and continue to list them even though they're gone forever, I don't see why this should be any different. I do think the template could use a slight tweaking for it, especially for Pokémon that are version exclusive outside the Friend Safari but available in both versions otherwise. Omitting the information from articles completely for Pokémon that are otherwise obtainable would imply that the Pokémon can't be found in Gen VI with its Hidden Ability (not counting Pokémon found in Hordes and their relatives, naturally). - [[User:Blazios|Blazios]] [[User Talk:Blazios|talk]] 18:36, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
:::::Ah; I was mistaken on how we treated the Dream World, then. (Did we used to do it the way I said, and then switched to having a separate row for it? I'm not sure how else I could've gotten confused about that...) In that case, why not follow the Dream World/Pal Park's example and make a separate row in the template for the Friend Safari? That's the easiest and most reader-friendly way I can think to incorporate the version exclusivity question you mentioned and to prevent clutter for Pokemon that appear both in FS and in-game. Then, in later versions, if the Friend Safari availability is the same, we can treat it as we currently do the Dream World and Pal Park; and if it's different, we can rename the row "Friend Safari{{sup/6|XY}}" and add a row for the other version(s). [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 18:46, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
::::::I suppose it would be possible to have it under a separate header like the Dream World and then list the Safari type in the location? - [[User:Blazios|Blazios]] [[User Talk:Blazios|talk]] 20:34, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
(reset)

I'm going to repeat what I wrote at [[User talk:Force Fire#Friend Safari as a location|Force Fire's talk page]].

My suggestion is that any Pokémon catchable in a Friend Safari is notated as such, perhaps with a note stating that the Pokémon in each friend's Safari is random and is based on friend code. Thus, all 216 Pokémon (guessing there are 12 of each of the 18 types, some may be fewer) would be listed as Friend Safari with a note explaining the circumstances, and that listing is identical for all 216.

The reason I take this stance is because all Pokémon CAN be found there. We should be listing where Pokémon CAN potentially be found, not excluding entries because they must be found through a friend with the correct Safari to find it in. USers who have no friends (sad as that sounds, it does happen with younger players quite often since they're not as wired to the Internet and have very few fellow players to play with) will only find the three in their own Safaris. [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 04:27, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
:I'm all for this suggestion. As I've said before, I think it would be incredibly lax of the wiki that aims for comprehensive articles on Pokémon games to blatantly disregard such a large feature of X & Y on so many articles. - [[User:Blazios|Blazios]] [[User Talk:Blazios|talk]] 04:41, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
::I was under the impression{{tt|*|I don't have X/Y and I'm vaguely trying to avoid spoilers, so my knowledge is indirect and incomplete.}} that the Friend Safari only had a selection of Pokemon, and not "almost any non-legendary"...But still, I would consider listing Friend Safari locations in a similar manner as the Dream World is currently listed to be a better solution than not listing the Friend Safari as a possible location at all. If I may have to do whatever amount of work, that's fine; just don't make me think that there's absolutely no way to get a Pokemon in Gen VI when I might be able to get it in the Friend Safari. If I know it's available in the Friend Safari, then I can decide whether I want to bother with that; but if you won't tell me, I can't even begin to make that decision. (And I have this thing about wanting to get as much as possible within whatever Generation I'm playing. So I definitely want to know.)
::And regarding if the Friend Safari changes in a Gen VI game after X/Y, it might be simpler to just handle it like a version exclusive Pokemon (like [[Gothita#Game locations|Gothita]]) and just say it's only in the Friend Safari in X/Y or only in Z (or whatever). [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 05:31, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
:::Actually, it occurs to me that the "problem" of variable Pokemon in the Friend Safari is very analogous to the situation with White Forest. Certainly the Friend Safari has more possible Pokemon, but the fact is that you also can't "guarantee" that any player will actually have a Pokemon listed as being in "White Forest" in their game. You have to do some work. Just like for the Friend Safari. Yet White Forest locations are listed. So too should Friend Safari locations be (in some manner, at least). [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 06:03, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
{{indent}} {{tt|Gonna respond to a few people at once here|Read: this conversation is a mess}}, so bear with me. 
As far as the initial issue goes, I've already given my opinion, and it's been expanded on plenty. There should certainly be something noted on the species pages, and this may be a whole lot easier once we learn more about what can show up. 
To Cyclone: Simple issue, but as far as I'm aware, you cannot access your ''own'' Friend Safari, only that of a person registered as your friend. So people with no friends are, for lack of a better term, SOL in that regard. 
To Tiddlywinks: As you can see, this list is still a work in progress. It seems, so far, we only have a fraction of what is available. What we do know is that it's based off of the friend code. This goes for type and the three Pokémon that are available. So if, for example, both me and say Cyclone were to resister you in our systems, we would both have access to the same type Safari with the same three Pokémon. At the current moment, that's really all we know. We haven't really been given evidence to say what ''can't'' show up. Yet, at the moment, it seems Legends are out, and starters from Gen II-V are not showing up. As far as finding out the remaining details, I did start a [http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/f693/friend-safari-formula-158298/ thread] a while back trying to solve this mystery, {{tt|but no one has given any response yet.|shameless bump}} [[User:Schiffy|Schiffy]] ([[User_talk:Schiffy|Speak to me]]|[[Special:Contributions/Schiffy|What I've done]]) 14:55, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
:Having looked around for a while, the list of Pokémon available is pretty much complete (I've seen people claim the existence of Lapras in the Water type Safari, though I can't confirm it myself. That's the single one I've seen that's missing from the list here). Serebii claims that each Pokémon is set to a specific spot on the Safari, meaning that some are unobtainable until the other person beats the Elite Four (we can't go copying from Serebii and would need to research this further, but I've yet to see a single Pokémon that contradicts his list), though aside from that we seem to have it all there. As we can see, this means that plenty of Pokémon don't appear here and, as I keep droning on about, not listing it is inconsistent with the way the wiki is with providing comprehensive information on articles. - [[User:Blazios|Blazios]] [[User Talk:Blazios|talk]] 17:12, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
::Replying to Schiffy: I'm not there yet, so I did not know that. This is very interesting.
::Otherwise I am backing what Blazios said. There is nothing comprehensive about excluding information on where Pokémon can be caught from their respective articles. [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 20:33, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
:::Tiddlywinks brought up a great point that I hadn't considered. The Friend Safari mechanic is very similar to the White Forest wild Pokémon. We should handle them both the same way. I would rather we list these Pokémon on both pages, but I also understand that we shouldn't let appearances in the Friend Safari stop the Pokémon from being considered version-exclusive. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 08:28, 20 November 2013 (UTC)
::::Any word on this? I've lost count of the amount of people who've tried to add this information to articles, assuming that we'd forgotten to add it. Unless someone wants to add a notice to the page of every single Pokémon that can be found in the Friend Safari, saying to not put that it can be found in the Friend Safari for some reason (in which case, why not spend the time adding the information to the articles). I still don't see the logic in not guaranteed to get=does not exist. - [[User:Blazios|Blazios]] [[User Talk:Blazios|talk]] 13:55, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
:::::{{u|Berrenta}} (and possibly others? but as far as I've noticed, mostly Berrenta) is continually removing these Friend Safari entries, but we have no solid consensus on this page, and in fact, the only admin to post here (SnorlaxMonster) just said we should handle them like White Forest — i.e., list them. What are we gonna do? [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 20:03, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
::::::I was removing because there's no guarantee a certain Pokémon will appear, like {{u|Stratelier}} mentioned earlier. If we are going to list Friend Safaris eventually, I'll be fine with that; I can always undo my own edits if needed. However, I'd suggest that if we are listing it, then it should have its own section of the template (like Dream World and Pal Park). For now, I can hold off the notices I was placing until there's a consensus. [[User:Berrenta|Berrenta]] ([[User talk:Berrenta|talk]]) 20:16, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
:::::::So what if there's no guarantee that the Pokémon will appear. By not saying that it can be found in the Friend Safari, it's like saying "this Pokémon can't be found in this game at all", which is wrong and misleading. It should be mentioned that it can be found in the Friend Safari. If someone doesn't understand the mechanics of the Friend Safari and doesn't know why they can't find that Pokémon, they can just read the page on it, which will be linked. If someone wants a Pokémon badly enough, they could keep adding friends until they find a Safari with that Pokémon and maybe even keep adding friends until they get all the Pokémon available. It should be mentioned on Pokémon pages that they can be found here. I feel that even if they are found elsewhere in the game, it should be mentioned too. It's an in-game location for the Pokémon and it's important. ☆[[User:Solar Dragon|The]] [[User talk:Solar Dragon|Solar]] [[Special:Contributions/Solar Dragon|Dragon]]☆ 20:40, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
::::::::You have a valid point there, Solar Dragon. I think we should bring this to a poll, either here or in the forums, so we all can decide who's in favor. [[User:Berrenta|Berrenta]] ([[User talk:Berrenta|talk]]) 20:59, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
:::::::::[http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/f195/friend-safari-pok%C3%A9mon-pages-159320/ I've made a thread here]. There's not a poll because I dislike polls and prefer discussion. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 04:46, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
{{indent}} I know I responded.... but it looks like the post was never approved.... [[User:Schiffy|Schiffy]] ([[User_talk:Schiffy|Speak to me]]|[[Special:Contributions/Schiffy|What I've done]]) 04:23, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
::Has anyone found Pokémon like Ratatta, which has not been listed? If not, then I think it should be a reason for listing Friend Safari in articles of Pokémon that can be found. Unless it is proven that every Pokémon can be found in the Friend Safari, it is best to list the Friend Safari in the game data. It isn't looking like Pal Park or Trading where you can get any Pokémon. It looks like just another area to find some Pokémon. [[User:SeanWheeler|SeanWheeler]] ([[User talk:SeanWheeler|talk]]) 00:48, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

Combining the data from [http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/f195/friend-safari-pok%C3%A9mon-pages-159320/ the forums], [[:#Pokémon not obtainable anywhere but the Friend Safari|this section]], and [[:#JP Guidebook info|the section below]] gives us a current tally. Note: The following is an assumption of the opinions that have been stated. --[[User:Super goku|Super goku]] ([[User talk:Super goku|talk]]) 06:09, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
* The users who have currently shown support for listing are [[User:SnorlaxMonster]], [[User:Berrenta]], [[User:Blazios]], [[User:Tiddlywinks]], [[User:Soulweaver]], [[User:Spriteit]], [[User:Maverick Nate]]/, [[User:Schiffy]], [[User:CycloneGU]],
* The users who have shown some support for listing in {{tt|specific cases|overriding the trade parameter, having a note placed, etc.}} are [[User:Schiffy]], [[User:Solar Dragon]], [[User:Crystal Talian]] [http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/f195/friend-safari-pok%C3%A9mon-pages-159320/#post5010515 (See here)], [[User:Pokemaster97]], [[User:Jo The Marten]] [http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/f195/friend-safari-pok%C3%A9mon-pages-159320/#post5011396 (See here)], [[User:SeanWheeler]], User:Chosen of Mana, User:Luna Tiger/, [[User:Pumpkinking0192]]
* The users who are opposed for listing are [[User:Stratelier]]
* I am unsure of the opinion of User:Muur

So with that tally and only one person opposing, can we please list Friend Safari? Now? There is no point in omitting it, especially when everyone has agreed to list it. [[User:SeanWheeler|SeanWheeler]] ([[User talk:SeanWheeler|talk]]) 18:12, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

Ok, I think we should put on Pokemon that can be caught in the Friend Safari that they can be caught in the Friend Safari. It would be less confusing for some people I guess. [[User:AwesomeGrovyle|AwesomeGrovyle]] ([[User talk:AwesomeGrovyle|talk]]) 19:59, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

:We should be able to list it soon, but we haven't been able to come to a clear decision on how to display it. From my guess nine are for the current idea, while nine others have a different idea. That would be the next thing to debate it would seem. --[[User:Super goku|Super goku]] ([[User talk:Super goku|talk]]) 03:49, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
::I still slightly prefer displaying it ''a la'' the Dream World in part because that seems like the simplest way (given our current templates) to display Pokémon that are version-exclusive outside FS but appear in both versions in FS. I have, however, seen a lot of logical arguments on the forum for displaying it ''a la'' White Forest, and I've been kind of convinced by the logical reasoning behind it, even if I'm doubtful about how clear the execution will be. Above all, I think the primary goal should be for version exclusivity to be completely clear and unambiguous. If that's accomplished, I don't care about the details of how we display it. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 04:07, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
:::Taking the example of the odd, almost-version-exclusive that is [[Petilil (Pokémon)#Game locations|Petilil]], you should be able to do something like this for (e.g.) [[Swirlix (Pokémon)#Game locations|Swirlix]].
{{Availability|
type=Fairy|
gen=6|
xyrarity=Uncommon{{sup/6|X}} [[Friend Safari]]|
xyarea={{rt|7|kalos}}{{sup/6|X}} Fairy-type Safari Slot 2|
}}
:::That seems clear enough to me. (I don't suppose that "Fairy-type Safari Slot 2" is the absolute best thing to have in there. Someone can probably think of something better.) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 05:27, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
::::Honest opinion, I would just make "Slot 2" into {{template|tt}} text. ({{tt|Fairy-type Safari|Slot 2/2nd Slot/Second Slot}}) --[[User:Super goku|Super goku]] ([[User talk:Super goku|talk]]) 05:34, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

There seems to be only 11 version exclusives in the Friend Safari: Throh, Sawk, Manectric, Pupitar, Cloyster, Pinsir, Heracross, Mightyena, Liepard, Spritzee and Swirlix. Whoa, looks like the version-exclusives would be reduced to half. But we can still put a note listing the version exclusives that appear in the Friend Safari on the version exclusives page. You guys are making it harder than it should. Just because some version exclusives can be found in the Friend Safari in both versions? The Caterpie and Weedle lines would have been version exclusives in Johto if it weren't for that Bug-Catching Contest. And Latias roams Hoenn in Sapphire and Kanto in HeartGold, while Latios roams Hoenn in Ruby and Kanto in SoulSilver. However, they can be caught in each other's game by an event item. And I don't think Friend Safari should be a special rarity. I think the Pokémon found there should be just considered rare. I really think Friend Safari should just be treated as well as any location. It is not a way to transfer Pokémon from previous games like Pal Park or an external thing like Dream World or the Pokéwalker. It is a legimate in-game way of getting Pokémon. You just need a Friend Code to enter. And that Friend doesn't necessarily have to have the Pokémon found in his/her Safari or agree to link with you. And while it is random, less than a third of the 718 Pokémon can be found in there. Others like Rattata can't be obtained. While I might be fine with having the asterisks, maybe put the type in the asterisk too, unless it is a single-typed, the type of Safari would be obvious. Although, Cascoon is found in the Poison type Safari even though it is a pure {{t|Bug}} type. [[User:SeanWheeler|SeanWheeler]] ([[User talk:SeanWheeler|talk]]) 17:12, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
::::I like the idea of "Friend Safari" having its own segment. I don't think "Slot 1" or "Slot 2", etc. are necessary, though for Slot 3 you might want to note that the Pokémon can only be found in a Safari belonging to someone who finished the game. No other notes regarding slots are necessary.
:I have more thoughts but am on the way out for the evening. I'll post more another time. Happy holidays! [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 21:20, 24 December 2013 (UTC)

Well I have not attended this conversation in forever, but currently I'm not universally against listing Pokemon as available in the Friend Safari (people are right: it is valid and useful information, especially for species that in XY only appear in the Friend Safari), just against listing it as the ''only'' place if there's a more direct way to obtain that species. The specific example that prompted my post was seeing {{p|Fletchinder}}'s page list ''only'' the Friend Safari as an in-game location, when it's clear that the player is more likely to actually obtain a Fletchinder by evolving a Fletchling (who is readily obtained in the Kalos wild). Pokemon species locations are generally listed starting from the "earliest" location/method they can be obtained in the given game, so if a page lists only the Friend Safari (or a [[trade]]) as a location, this presents an implication that it ''cannot be caught or obtained earlier than that'', which in Fletchinder's case is obviously not true. --''[[User:Stratelier|Stratelier]]'' 07:28, 4 February 2014 (UTC)
:{{DL|Talk:Friend Safari|Post-Christmas Update on This?|The admins have already made the decision to include the Friend Safari.}} It's just taking awhile to get the templates properly put together to accommodate it. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 16:50, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

:::::Reply regarding Contest and Lati - it's because, unlike Friend Safari, they're set and the same for every player. Friend Safari, on other hand, is all but fixed. [[User:Eridanus|Eridanus]] ([[User talk:Eridanus|talk]]) 17:03, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

== Finding the type based on Friend Code ==

So, it's clear that the type of a certain person's Friend Safari is based on their System's Friend Code, but what I'm curious to find out is if someone can find exactly how this is done. I could imagine the calculation isn't a world different from calculating whether a Pokémon will be Shiny based on its personality value or similar equations that have been used in games past. But if anyone can find it, it would be a useful addition to the article. [[User:Schiffy|Schiffy]] ([[User_talk:Schiffy|Speak to me]]|[[Special:Contributions/Schiffy|What I've done]]) 20:21, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

== Spreadsheet ==

This spreadsheet may assist you in figuring out what you have and don't have out of the Friend Safari. Tell me if you have any comments/suggestions/questions!

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B4hK...?usp=drive_web

Download away! (.xlsx) {{unsigned|Namelessdeath}}

== Friend Codes and Friend Safari Areas ==

Should we have separate Sub-Pages, or just somewhere on the page, to add Friend Codes for various different types so that we can add the type we want.--[[User:Ditto51|Tom]] ([[User_Talk:Ditto51|My Talk Page]]) 22:11, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
:Explaining how a friend code determines what type is in each person's Friend Safari is fine. Listing people's friend codes, or trading friend codes is something that's better left to the [http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/forum.php forums]. --[[User:Funktastic~!|'''It's''' '''Funktastic~!''']][[User talk:Funktastic~!|''話してください'']] 22:17, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
::I think if someone is ''willing'' to offer theirs for examples sake so we can figure out the relation, it might be okay to add.... [[User:Schiffy|Schiffy]] ([[User_talk:Schiffy|Speak to me]]|[[Special:Contributions/Schiffy|What I've done]]) 02:43, 30 October 2013 (UTC)
::Coming back to this, I've tried different manners of calculations combining XORs and Modulo 18s to see where it gets me, using the codes I have registered and the types they match up to. I've come up with no ascertainable pattern. If we can get a single forum thread going dedicated to finding the key with people who would, again, be willing to offer their codes for testing purposes, we ''just'' might get somewhere. [[User:Schiffy|Schiffy]] ([[User_talk:Schiffy|Speak to me]]|[[Special:Contributions/Schiffy|What I've done]]) 20:18, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
:::Actually, when the Join Avenue was new, [[Talk:Join_Avenue#Youngster_Janus|we did do something like this to get the data.]] I do not see the harm in pooling the data so long as everyone is alright with it. Otherwise we could just make a section for the sum of a Friend Code as AAAA-BBBB-CCCC and seeing if we can figure it out with only the sums of section A, B, and C. --[[User:Super goku|Super goku]] ([[User talk:Super goku|talk]]) 06:09, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

== IVs ==

Every pokemon I catch here has 2 random perfect IVs of 31. I don't think it's just me, it's gotta be a fact and worth sharing. [[User:DuelKING|DuelKING]] ([[User talk:DuelKING|talk]]) 19:36, 7 November 2013 (UTC)DuelKING[[User:DuelKING|DuelKING]] ([[User talk:DuelKING|talk]]) 19:36, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
:I can confirm this one (aside from the fact that Serebii had it, I've tested it plenty of times myself). What I've also noticed, but I'm not sure if this is an always, but two Pokémon in a row that I caught in the Safari also had two random really low IVs (the calculators I used all gave me 0-3 at Level 30 with no EVs, and I would not be surprised if they turned out to be just 0). [[User:Schiffy|Schiffy]] ([[User_talk:Schiffy|Speak to me]]|[[Special:Contributions/Schiffy|What I've done]]) 19:43, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
::The Pokemon always having two perfect IVs is true. The other part, having two really low IVs is not. Also, the IV checker in Kiloude's Pokemon Center will also tell you if they have 0 IVs. --[[User:Funktastic~!|'''It's''' '''Funktastic~!''']][[User talk:Funktastic~!|''話してください'']] 19:45, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
:::To build on this, it seems that the game will allow for three or more perfect IVs by chance, so I doubt there are stats forced lower by the Friend Safari. --[[User:Super goku|Super goku]] ([[User talk:Super goku|talk]]) 23:44, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
::::However, why doesn't the IVs show in super training? [[User:Superbobbobbob3|Superbobbobbob3]] ([[User talk:Superbobbobbob3|talk]]) 15:06, 8 November 2013 (UTC)
:::::Based on data I've seen from Friend Safari users in the chat room, most Pokémon run through the bot command !piv from the Safari tend to have three perfect IVs suggested, even though without training which three cannot be confirmed. Also, a few of these Pokémon have higher IVs in the ones that are not perfect, so the others are not necessarily lower. I'll have access to my Safari soon (which I've been told is Ghost, I have no idea why I got stuck with that) and I plan to catch some Pokémon and see what kind of numbers I end up with. [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 04:32, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
::::::Er, it's actually extremely easy to see which IVs are perfect without any training whatsoever. The IV guy is in the Pokemon Center in the same town, and he mentions every perfect IV. And having access to mine, it's a complete crapshoot whether the other IVs are good or not. I've had good to perfect in the others, and IVs that were 0. --[[User:Funktastic~!|'''It's''' '''Funktastic~!''']][[User talk:Funktastic~!|''話してください'']] 04:36, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
:::::::Yeah, I'm not there yet, so I keep forgetting that guy is there. I'll catch up soon. I have been taking my time trying to get data for the Wiki and not actually speeding through the game. I do have access to Victory Road but have yet to visit. [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 04:57, 17 November 2013 (UTC)

== Shiny Pokémon Chance Increased ==
I have noticed that various places have said that have found a shiny pokemon very easy in the friend safari (Clamed to be a 1/300 chance and in the friend safari it takes a lest 24 minuets to find one and five hours at the most.). This is some we should test out {{unsigned|Superbobbobbob3}}

==names==
I have noticed that the list with your friends on it will sometimes have different names on it than the ones used in their games. Where does the safari get your friends names from? {{Unsigned|Auragirl}}
:The names used in the Friend Safari match the names of the Mii on the 3DS corresponding to that person's code, rather than their X/Y character name. [[User:Schiffy|Schiffy]] ([[User_talk:Schiffy|Speak to me]]|[[Special:Contributions/Schiffy|What I've done]]) 15:32, 17 November 2013 (UTC)

== Hidden Abilities ==

From my own experience, Pokémon cannot be found with their Hidden Ability unless that Trainer has 3 Pokémon available (so has defeated the Champion then been online at the same time as you). I am weary about adding this though, as it is only from empirical tests, and is not conclusively known. It's very easy to falsify, not so easy to prove. If anyone has found a Pokémon with its Hidden Ability in the Friend Safari with only 2 Pokémon, please reply here. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 08:16, 20 November 2013 (UTC)
:I can test this. I have a large number of friends with only two Pokémon (not playing in other words) and am cruising around Safaris right now. If I get any hidden abilities I'll update with all details except for the user info (obviously). Meanwhile, the infobox is oddly stretched on the page; not sure if this can be fixed? [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 16:35, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
::Hidden Abilities are available if both people have been online in-game at the same time. If the character's silhouette has changed from ? to their in-game character portrait, then there's a chance for HAs to be obtained. I currently have at least one Safari where all 3 are available, but no HAs, and several where only 2 mons are available, but they're available with HAs. I've updated the relevant section with the correct information. [[User:Tathra|Tathra]] ([[User talk:Tathra|talk]]) 01:30, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
:::The way Tathra describes it here, it sounds like HAs are only obtainable while two players are online at the same time. However, SnorlaxMonster just changed it so that it sounds more like all that's needed to unlock the possibility of HAs is for the players to be online together once. Like, I could get online with a friend, save, then reset my game and play completely offline, and I'd still have a chance to find HAs in that friend's Friend Safari. Is that right? (This is what I assumed in the "massaging" I just did.) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 02:52, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
::::Tathra described it as both players having been online at the same time at some point, not currently being online at that time. The player silhouette changes once the players have been online at the same time, not while they are currently both online. You are correct in your second statement. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 02:55, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
:::::Ah, I mistook the meaning of the "?". I thought it was for a friend who's offline; I forgot they just have their picture dimmed down. So that made some of the rest of the wording seem to be at odds to me, too. Thanks. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 03:02, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
:The main part I'm trying to correct is that both players dont have to be online at the same time for the 3rd mon to be available. They likely have to have their 3ds online at the same time for the information to be passed that yes, this player has defeated the E4 and Champion (similar to how Streetpassing works - you dont have to be playing a game right then in order to use its streetpass fuction), but getting the 3rd slot does not require that both players be online in the game at the same time. In [http://imageshack.com/a/img809/1518/epg3.jpg this picture] you can see that all 3 mons are available, but the players image is just a silhouette with ?, meaning that I cant get HAs, because we have not been online in-game at the same time. If being online in-game at the same time was a requirement for the 3rd mon to be available, this situation would not be possible. [[User:Tathra|Tathra]] ([[User talk:Tathra|talk]]) 03:18, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
::I see. I'd really like to be able to say whether the 3DS/game can just pull the information out of "thin air" or whether you both have to have your 3DSs online at the same time, but in the absence of that knowledge, I suppose I'll leave it as is, for people to work out on their own. If that's not been updated before I meander my way to the end of the game, I'll have to find someone to test that requirement with. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 03:47, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
:::It'll be a hassle to orchestrate with somebody to have their 3ds offline after they add you, and to make sure neither of you are online at the same time. The easiest way to test it would be to have two 3dses. My money is on both people needing their 3dses connected to wifi at the same time for just a second, but its possible that the flag, if it exists at that time, is sent along with the confirmation that they've also added you as a friend. At any rate, it might not be necessary to state that both 3dses must be online at some point because its not really something you need to try to make happen. [[User:Tathra|Tathra]] ([[User talk:Tathra|talk]]) 04:33, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
::::I'm not really sure what you're thinking, above. What I want to know is what it takes for someone who sees a Friend Safari with two Pokemon to see that FS with three Pokemon once the other player has beaten the Elite Four. To set it up is easy: before I get to the Elite Four, I just need to become friends with someone(s), so they've got my Friend Safari with only two Pokemon in it. (I've actually already got a couple, now that I think about it. =P ) Then I'll beat the Elite Four and...I guess I'll try to connect online (just with my 3DS, while my game is ''not'' running) for a minute or two while they're not online. I'll see if that's possibly enough to let them see the third Pokemon the next time they connect online (while I'm offline); if not, then we can just try to be online (without our games - or mine at least - running) at the same time. QED [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 04:50, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

== Lapras and Shuppet ==

Can someone confirm if Lapras and Shuppet are available via Water and Ghost Safaris, respectively?

[[User:Katrinuh|Katrinuh]] ([[User talk:Katrinuh|talk]]) 00:47, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
:I can confirm Shuppet. --[[User:WyndFox|Wynd]] [[User talk:WyndFox|Fox]] 04:13, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

::I can confirm Lapras, but it is available in an Ice Safari, not a Water Safari. [[User:Plumbgirlie|Plumbgirlie]] ([[User talk:Plumbgirlie|talk]]) 00:26, 24 February 2014 (UTC)

== Not Listing in Avaliblity ==

According to [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Larvesta_(Pok%C3%A9mon)&diff=0&oldid=2024447 this edit], the wiki isn't listing Friend Safari. If no one minds me asking, why not? [[User:Tacopill|Tacopill]] ([[User talk:Tacopill|talk]]) 22:31, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
:Still discussing it. Not came to a conclusion. Look above, at the huge discussion. ☆[[User:Solar Dragon|The]] [[User talk:Solar Dragon|Solar]] [[Special:Contributions/Solar Dragon|Dragon]]☆ 22:35, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
::I hope we get a clear decision soon. I really don't like removing the Friend Safari listings, to be honest. Many of us have voiced our opinions on the matter. [[User:Berrenta|Berrenta]] ([[User talk:Berrenta|talk]]) 22:45, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
:::So if you personally don't like removing it, why do it? It makes you look like you are supporting the removal of Friend Safari entries. [[User:SeanWheeler|SeanWheeler]] ([[User talk:SeanWheeler|talk]]) 00:51, 2 December 2013 (UTC)
::::It's not because I support them. To be honest, I don't. It was only because there was the ongoing debate, and they didn't want it listed until a decision was made. [[User:Berrenta|Berrenta]] ([[User talk:Berrenta|talk]]) 00:58, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

== Shinies ==

Really, is there any way to determine whether or not the chances are higher than normal? It seems like lots of people have found shinies here (I found a shiny Boldore my first time in), which may or may not be significant? Is hacking necessary for numbers? -- [[User:Pringles|Pringles]] 05:33, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
:The shiny rate has apparently been doubled throughout the entire game, not just in the Friend Safari. See {{DL|Shiny Pokémon|Generation III onward|our Shiny Pokémon article}}. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 05:37, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
::(Six months is the limit, right?) Even taking the doubled rate through the entire game into consideration, the reports I've seen seem to have much higher rates than 1/4096, and this doesn't seem to just be a few people, either (it's happened to some friends, too). But, unless I'm missing something, would the only reliable way to confirm this be hacking? -- [[User:EnosShayrem|EnosShayrem]][[User_talk:EnosShayrem|talk]] 03:18, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
:::Yeah, but those high rates would be due to the Shiny Charm. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 13:34, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
The article says there is an increased chance, has this finally been verified? [[User:Yamitora1|Yamitora1]] ([[User talk:Yamitora1|talk]]) 03:41, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
:Like it says in the [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Friend_Safari&diff=2097075&oldid=2089494 history]. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 04:06, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
::Can we really say Smogon's independent research is a reliable source? '~' [[User:Me, Hurray!|Me, Hurray!]] ([[User talk:Me, Hurray!|talk]]) 13:49, 25 April 2014 (UTC)
:::Alot of Smogon's research is trusted here, given that, if I recall the reason correctly, while they may be a fan site, they often do conduct in-depth accurate research with more than enough proof to back it up. A staff member could explain it better than me, though. [[User:Schiffy|Schiffy (瀬藤健二)]] ([[User talk:Schiffy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Schiffy|Contribs]]) 13:53, 4/25/2014 (UTC)
::::It's a darn sight better than purely subjective anecdotes, that's for sure. I'm happy to bet on the likelihood that someone actually gathered real data for that over the possibility that someone faked it all. You can always feel free to try to convince me (/Bulbapedia) I'm wrong, though. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 00:53, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

== JP Guidebook info ==
{|
|-
! Type
! Slot 1
! Slot 2
! Slot 3
|-
| Normal
| Lillipup, Dunsparce, Teddiursa, Aipom
| Kecleon, Minccino, Loudred, Audino
| Eevee, Ditto, Smeargle, Chansey
|-
| Fire
| Ponyta, Growlithe, Pansear, Magmar
| Charmeleon, Pyroar, Slugma, Larvesta
| Braixen, Braixen, Fletchinder, Ninetales
|-
| Water
| Krabby, Bibarel, Panpour, Octillery
| Wartortle, Quagsire, Gyarados, Flowsel
| Frogadier, Frogadier, Azumarill, Poliwhirl
|-
| Grass
| Oddish, Tangela, Pansage, Sunkern
| Ivysaur, Petilil, Sawsbuck, Swadloon
| Quilladin, Quilladin, Maractus, Gogoat
|-
| Electric
| Electrode, Emolga, Dedenné, Pachirisu
| Pikachu, Helioptile, Electabuzz, Stunfisk
| Luxio, Galvantula, Zebstrika, Manectric
|-
| Ice
| Snorunt, Delibird, Spheal, Snover
| Bergmite, Bergmite, Sneasel, Beartic
| Lapras, Cloyster, Dewgong, Piloswine
|-
| Fighting
| Meditite, Mankey, Machoke, Mienfoo
| Pancham, Pancham, Throh, Sawk
| Hariyama, Tyrogue, Riolu, Breloom
|-
| Poison
| Kakuna, Cascoon, Seviper, Gloom
| Venomoth, Swalot, Garbodour, Ariados
| Toxicroak, Drapion, Muk, Whirlipede
|-
| Ground
| Phanpy, Wooper, Trapinch, Sandshrew
| Marowak, Camerupt, Dugtrio, Nincada
| Palpitoad, Gastrodon, Diggersby, Diggersby
|-
| Flying
| Pidgey, Spearow, Farfetch'd, Doduo
| Hoothoot, Tranquill, Swanna, Woobat
| Rufflet, Tropius, Fletchinder, Hawlucha
|-
| Psychic
| Abra, Drowzee, Grumpig, Munna
| Wobbuffet, Sigilyph, Espurr, Espurr
| Duosion, Xatu, Girafarig, Gothorita
|-
| Bug
| Butterfree, Combee, Lediba, Paras
| Beautifly, Masquerain, Volbeat, Illumise
| Vivillon, Venomoth, Pinsir, Heracross
|-
| Rock
| Dwebble, Dwebble, Nosepass, Boldore
| Pipitar, Corsola, Onix, Magcargo
| Rhydon, Shuckle, Barbaracle, Barbaracle
|-
| Ghost
| Shuppet, Shuppet, Lampent, Lampent
| Phantump, Phantump, Pumpkaboo, Pumpkaboo
| Golurk, Drifblim, Dusclops, Spiritomb
|-
| Dragon
| Gabite, Gabite, Fraxure, Fraxure
| Shelgon, Dragonair, Noibat, Noibat
| Druddigon, Druddigon, Sliggoo, Sliggoo
|-
| Dark
| Pawniard, Vullaby, Nuzleaf, Mightyena
| Sneasel, Sandile, Cacturne, Crawdaunt
| Liepard, Inkay, Absol, Sableye
|-
| Steel
| Ferroseed, Ferroseed, Mawile, Magneton
| Metang, Klang, Skarmory, Forretress
| Bronzong, Excadrill, Klefki, Klefki
|-
| Fairy
| Kirlia, Snubbull, Togepi, Dedenné
| Mawile, Jigglypuff, Spritzee, Swirlix
| Floette (Red), Clefairy, Floette (Yellow), Floette (Blue)
|}
:Slot 3 Pokemon will only appear if the registered friend has entered the Hall of Fame.
:Hidden Abilities will only appear if the registered friend has entered the Hall of Fame.
:Each choice in a slot has a 25% chance, so if something appears twice, it has a 50% chance.
:All listings are in the exact order they appear in the book.
:Hopefully this helps. [[User:Bluesun|Bluesun]] ([[User talk:Bluesun|talk]]) 02:27, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

::Yeah, it does help. Especially in the argument on whether or not to list the Friend Safari. [[User:SeanWheeler|SeanWheeler]] ([[User talk:SeanWheeler|talk]]) 21:36, 2 December 2013 (UTC)
:::This certainly seems like it should be added, but I'm wondering if at least one or two other people can confirm all of this to be safe. [[User:Schiffy|Schiffy]] ([[User_talk:Schiffy|Speak to me]]|[[Special:Contributions/Schiffy|What I've done]]) 22:11, 2 December 2013 (UTC)
::::Noticed the above table was worked in the page, and it looks great! I also agree with Sean: hopefully it can help us settle the debate. [[User:Berrenta|Berrenta]] ([[User talk:Berrenta|talk]]) 22:53, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

:::Any objections to from the opposition? Or should we go ahead and add Friend Safari to the appropriate Pokémon? [[User:SeanWheeler|SeanWheeler]] ([[User talk:SeanWheeler|talk]]) 23:22, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
::::I would say at this point, several days later, that there's no remaining opposition. I say be bold and go ahead, and if it gets reverted refer that user here to explain why they disagree. [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 08:30, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

:::::Well, Pokemaster has stopped me, and we're getting a debate on my [[User talk:SeanWheeler|talk page]]. It's still not over yet. And I'm really annoyed that even with this set list, there are still people who don't want it. We're lying of omission when we don't include the Friend Safari on the Pokémon pages. [[User:SeanWheeler|SeanWheeler]] ([[User talk:SeanWheeler|talk]]) 23:16, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
::::::Maybe we can include a "post-game" tag, to say it is not available there until after beating the game? [[User:Tacopill|Tacopill]] ([[User talk:Tacopill|talk]]) 23:50, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

{{indent}} Honestly, if people would pay attention, there has been a [http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/f195/friend-safari-pok%C3%A9mon-pages-159320/ thread] going for a while created by SnorlaxMonster. It's going to be ''far'' easier in the long run than arguing on 3 or more talk pages here. [[User:Schiffy|Schiffy]] ([[User_talk:Schiffy|Speak to me]]|[[Special:Contributions/Schiffy|What I've done]]) 02:53, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

Well, no one has replied to my last comment on that forum and I was asking how it can be decided. [[User:SeanWheeler|SeanWheeler]] ([[User talk:SeanWheeler|talk]]) 04:04, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
:Side note: I'm not a member of the forum and really think all conversations regarding the Wiki should happen ''ON THE WIKI''. And I still believe we need to have all Pokémon that CAN be found noted as such. [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 02:56, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
:Schiffy, you replied to this very topic on the 2nd. This was about the JP Guidebook and turned into a discussion on whether to include this or not. I will admit that these discussion should be tied into each other, [[:#Pokémon not obtainable anywhere but the Friend Safari|which I have attempted to do.]] --[[User:Super goku|Super goku]] ([[User talk:Super goku|talk]]) 06:09, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

== Post-Christmas Update on This? ==

Pokémon Bank releases today, so no matter what, all 718 currently known Pokémon can be moved into X/Y today. However, we still haven't settled the native issue of Friend Safari. The linked thread above has had no commentary since December 14. I think the time has come to '''be bold''' and make the changes. We also must maintain a central place ON THIS WIKI for anyone who still objects to be referred to to explain their reasons. The point I'm making is there is no objective reason that the information found CANNOT be included, so it's time to include it; the only thing to debate is how to make that information ''look'' in the end. And that we can continue to debate. It's time to add the information. [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 19:19, 27 December 2013 (UTC)
:Actually it was delayed due to problems with the eshop network, so currently only Pokémon from Kalos, Friend Safari and the few that were traded up in Japan before it was taken down are actually available--[[User:Ditto51|Ditto51/Tom]] ([[User_Talk:Ditto51|My Talk Page]]) 20:17, 27 December 2013 (UTC).
::All right, so Bank got delayed. We still need to decide the Friend Safari thing, and soon. [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 20:05, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
:::It has pretty much been decided that we will be including it. {{u|Kogoro}} has been working diligently on a [[User talk:Kogoro/Template/Availability|revamp of the Availability template]] in order to include the Friend Safari. Unfortunately, we can't simply snap our fingers and have all the information added instantly. It's important that this is done the correct way. Due to some unforeseen issues with the revamped template, it hasn't been implemented yet. We will be adding in Friend Safari in due time. Thank you for bearing with us so far, but I must ask you to be patient for just a bit longer as the template is worked out. ''[[User:Maverick Nate|'''Maverick''']][[User talk:Maverick Nate|'''Nate''']]'' 20:30, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
::::No problem, issues with the template is something I can understand. The problem will be fixed in due time and the information added. After all, there is no deadline for a Wiki. =) [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 20:53, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
:::::Good to hear there's a plan to incorporate Friend Safari. As long as the kinks are ironed out, we should be fine. The potential revamp looks pretty good so far. [[User:Berrenta|Berrenta]] ([[User talk:Berrenta|talk]]) 22:26, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

It's been two more months now. I understand that the Editorial Board had some restructuring or whatever and that could be a factor in the continued delay. But I'd just like an update.

Maverick Nate said above that there were some unforeseen issues with the revamped template, but Kogoro doesn't seem to have made any (significant) changes to it since that comment. Could someone elaborate on those issues? Perhaps someone else can contribute a solution. As it is, I don't even know why Friend Safari locations can't just be added to the current template immediately (in one format or another)... [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 15:59, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
:Well, it seems we got the new availability template worked out, and we are finally listing Friend Safari. It's good we finally got it going. I saw the new template as it was being incorporated, and it looks a little better than what we had before. [[User:Berrenta|Berrenta]] ([[User talk:Berrenta|talk]]) 19:16, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

== Location column ==

Is the Location Column really necessary, it seems a little redundant and pointless. All there is in the safari is grass, so it goes without saying where to find the Pokémon. [[User:Yamitora1|Yamitora1]] ([[User talk:Yamitora1|talk]]) 09:05, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
:You wouldn't be wrong, really, to argue that it is unnecessary, but it's also not really worth doing the work to remove that column either. The template currently being used is entirely sufficient and by no means egregiously bad, to need any "fixing". [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 09:18, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
::This by far isn't the only location in the games with only one way of finding wild Pokémon, another example in the same games is {{rt|2|Kalos}}, which also only has grass. As Tiddlywinks stated, there's no need to go messing with the entire template or using an entire different one for this location because of such a small factor. [[User:Schiffy|Schiffy (瀬藤健二)]] ([[User talk:Schiffy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Schiffy|Contribs]]) 16:56,1/13/2014 (UTC)

== Hidden Ability chances ==

For an offline friend I found that the chances to get the HA for Pokémon with 3 Abilities available is of 1/3rd. Sample is small (n=300) but the results are almost consistent with a distribution of 1:1:1. Results were:

* 1st Ability: 102
* 2nd Ability: 97
* Hid Ability: 101

I'll test the distribution for an online friend as soon as I can contact my best friend. We may be able to get a bigger sample and debunk or confirm that thing about HAs being more common when the owner of the safari is online. --[[User:Profesor Rod|Profesor Rod]] ([[User talk:Profesor Rod|talk]]) 04:46, 24 February 2014 (UTC)

:To be honest, this really doesn't surprise me all too much. Gen VI, from what I've seen, has taken what used to be "Hidden Abilities" and made them far far more common, essentially no more than a second or third (species dependent) regularly-obtainable Ability, the only exception ''maybe'' being when you obtain the starters (yet breeding seems to give about a 50/50 chance from what I've seen on videos). If I were to hazard a guess, the online results, if you get around to testing them, probably won't be too different. [[User:Schiffy|Schiffy (瀬藤健二)]] ([[User talk:Schiffy|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Schiffy|Contribs]]) 07:07, 2/24/2014 (UTC)

== Encounter Rate ==

I tackled this question pretty much like the Hidden Abilities one, but this is faster to test since I don't need to wait for all those Trace messages. Still, there is a lot of statistical noise on each individual run but, assuming that encounter rates are the same no matter the safari's type, by seeing the whole sample it's pretty much a 1:1:1 distribution:

* '''Normal:''' Aipom:33 Loudred:33 Ditto:34
* '''Dragon:''' Fraxure:36 Dragonair:33 Sliggoo:31
* '''Fighting:''' Mienfoo:65 Pancham:61 Riolu:74
* '''Ice:''' Spheal:60 Bergmite:71 Piloswine:69
* '''''Total:''''' Slot1:194 Slot2:198 Slot3:208

Just for completeness sake I quickly checked safari with only 2 Pokémon and got:

* '''Water:''' Panpour:29 Floatzel:21
* '''Poison:''' Seviper:26 Garbodor:24
* '''Rock:''' Dwebble:26 Corsola:24
* '''Psychic:''' Munna:19 Espurr:31
* '''''Total:''''' Slot1:100 Slot2:100

There might be something in this last one, but with such a small sample I can't tell. An educated guess suggest a 1:1 distribution too but I'm not very interested in producing more data since most people go for the fully unlocked safaris. --[[User:Profesor Rod|Profesor Rod]] ([[User talk:Profesor Rod|talk]]) 11:09, 24 February 2014 (UTC)

== On to something about what the Friend Code determines==

I think I am on to something about how a players friend code effects the type of Friend Safari and the pokemon that appear. I have gotten good consistencies from a FS FC trading forum and a few quirks that I hope are just typos on the forum.

I would like to eventually share this information and even write a program that does this but I have a feeling it will take a while. [[User:Jmsnipes100|Jmsnipes100]] ([[User talk:Jmsnipes100|talk]]) 04:41, 10 March 2014 (UTC)

== Sneasle the only Pokémon found in two types of Safari? ==

I was searching a Ice Safari, and it had a Sneasle, I then went to a Dark Safari, it has a Sneasle as well. I looked up and down, and unless I missed it Sneasle seems to be the only Pokémon that appears in more than one type of Safari. Its almost 5am here, having a bout of insomnia but (I am more than tired, I just can't get to sleep for some reason) so its highly possible I am missing any other Pokémon that might be in another safari. [[User:Yamitora1|Yamitora1]] ([[User talk:Yamitora1|talk]]) 08:54, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
:Fletchinder and Venomoth. [[User:Glik|glik]][[User talk:Glik|glak]] 12:29, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

SHouldnt that part about it being the place were evos of starters can be caught be in the trivia? or is it just to importent. [[User:Pokemonisawesome2|Pokemonisawesome2]] ([[User talk:Pokemonisawesome2|talk]]) 04:20, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

Talk:Pokémon X and Y

2014-08-16T04:17:34Z

Pokemonisawesome2:

== Titles missing "Version"? ==
Do the titles include "version" this time? I'm not seeing it on the official site or the trailer. I think they're just called Pokemon X and Pokemon Y now. [[User:Hheebo|Hheebo]] ([[User talk:Hheebo|talk]]) 14:17, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

== Pokémon X and Y "Versions"? ==

Is it right to be calling them Pokemon X Version and Pokemon Y version? Unlike previous games Nintendo hasn't used the word "version" when referring to them by name, just calling them Pokemon X and Pokemon Y rather than, to use the most recent example, "Pokemon Black Version 2" and "Pokemon White Version 2". The logos don't contain the word "version" either. I think they should simply be referred to as Pokemon X and Y.
EDIT: Ninja'd by Hheebo. Delete if necessary.
[[User:NFreak007|NFreak007]] ([[User talk:NFreak007|talk]]) 14:19, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

:I second this. "Versions" hasn't been mentioned at all, nor are contained in the logos. If "Versions" were in the title, there's usually a habit of saying it every time the game title comes up. It's misleading to list the article as it being called "X and Y ''Versions''" if there really isn't any facts backing that up. --[[User:Manaphy1|Manaphy1]] 16:20, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
::Thirded. It should be [[Pokémon X and Y]], as I stated on [[Pokémon Black and White Versions 2]]'s trivia section. Please rename this page and change this article and the Generation VI one accordingly. [[User:Digifiend|Digifiend]] ([[User talk:Digifiend|talk]]) 17:15, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
:::Fourthed. Every other main series entry has had "version" on it, this is different in all languages. This should be reflected in the title of the page. {{unsigned|NP Chilla}}
::::[http://www.thesixthaxis.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/PokemonXY8-1024x640.jpg Here]. Enjoy. [[User:Masatoshi|Masatoshi]][[User_talk:Masatoshi|''talk'']] 18:00, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
:::::That seems to be a screenshot from Nintendo3DS's video. The official Pokémon channel uploaded the same trailer, and they don't use the word Version, and they're strict with that word, putting it in all Black Version 1 and White Version 1 videos. [[User:ToastUltimatum|'''Toast''']][[User talk:ToastUltimatum|'''Ultimatum''']] 19:31, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
::::::The same video is also on Pokemon.com, without the word "Version." I fifth the notion that it should be struck from here, because it doesn't appear to be in any official media. --[[User:The Great Butler|The Great Butler]] ([[User talk:The Great Butler|talk]]) 02:40, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
:::::::I think it would be a good idea to move it to [[Pokémon X and Y]], 'cause it doesn't even say the name "version" in the title. In previous games, the official sources have said "Pokémon [title] Version" only if it has the word "version in the logo. These games are different, they don't have "version" in the title at all, so I really wouldn't see any reason to have it titled "Pokémon X and Y Versions".—[[User:Platinum Lucario|Platinum Lucario]] ([[User talk:Platinum Lucario|talk]]) 10:29, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
::::::::I would like to agree with the page move as well, but I really can't say until there is more usage of just "Pokemon X and Y" an not "Pokemon X version and Pokemon Y version". I am undecided since I've seen Pokémon Direct recordings with the word "version" in it (like in the picture posted by Masatoshi), but everything else points to just calling it [[Pokémon X and Y]]. - ''[[User:Vhayes1992|Vhayes]]1992'' 23:38, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
:The official press release repeatedly lists the trademarked titles as ''Pokémon X'' and ''Pokémon Y'' and never uses the term "Version." Excerpt: "''Pokémon X'' and ''Pokémon Y'' will be the blueprint for an exciting array of new animation, Pokémon TCG, and toys debuting around the world."
:In all of their press releases for other games in the series they use "Version," for example this excerpt from the B2W2 press release: "The successors to the acclaimed ''Pokémon Black Version'' and ''Pokémon White Version'' games, ''Pokémon Black Version 2'' and ''Pokémon White Version 2''..."
:So it seems pretty obvious that it should be moved to "Pokémon X and Y."[[User:AmaranthSparrow|AmaranthSparrow]] ([[User talk:AmaranthSparrow|talk]]) 21:40, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
::Heck, even Pokémon.com reads "''An all-new 3D Pokémon adventure packed with never-before-seen Pokémon will launch worldwide in October 2013. '''Pokémon X''' and '''Pokémon Y''' will present a new generation of Pokémon, and introduce players to an exciting new adventure in a breathtaking 3D world.''" Could an admin PLEASE hurry up and move the name of this page? [[User:ToastUltimatum|'''Toast''']][[User talk:ToastUltimatum|'''Ultimatum''']] 23:25, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
:::By moving the page, not only would {{template|v}}, {{template|2v}}, {{template|2v2}}, and {{template|game}} have to be edited (besides the fact that they are all massively used) but [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Special:WhatLinksHere/Pok%C3%A9mon_X_and_Y_Versions&limit=500 every single page] that links here would also have to be edited. There's also {{template|PokémonInfobox}}, which is only used on '''over 650 pages'''. Templates on the Archives would also have to be changed. --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 23:44, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
::::I'm against moving this page, at the very least until further information is available. "Version" is part of what separates the main series for games like Stadium, XD, and the like. Furthermore, there is at least some evidence that these games are still titled "X Version" and "Y Version" as seen in the picture Masa posted. It seems to me like the company is merely advertising the game in this manner because this is how the fandom always refers to the games, that is, without the word "version". Furthermore, this is probably simpler since it saves them the trouble of having to write "version" in several different languages all at once (remember, this is getting an instant worldwide release, and "Pokemon" is pretty universal while "version" isn't). We should at least wait a while before moving the page, and then having to move it back again. [[User:Crystal Talian|Crystal]] [[User talk:Crystal Talian|Talian]] 23:49, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
:::::Just to clarify, Masatoshi's image wasn't official; the official trailer doesn't have that banner on it, nor refers to them at all as having "Versions". As for the templates, they don't appear hard to edit in a change if you use "if switches". --[[User:Manaphy1|Manaphy1]] 00:53, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
::::::Just to clarify, "#if:" switches work differently than "#switch:"es. Don't worry though, it'll only cause the servers to fail like when {{template|roundy}} used them.--[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 01:08, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
::::::His image was official. [http://www.nintendo.nl/Divers/Nintendo-Direct/Laatstse-Nintendo-Direct/Nintendo-Direct-698557.html This] is official straight from Nintendo's website. It says "version". This is why I am sort of reserving a conclusion and doing a wait and see. - ''[[User:Vhayes1992|Vhayes]]1992'' 02:16, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
:Where? From what I can see, it calls them Polémon X (lol, presumably a typo) and Pokémon Y. [[User:Digifiend|Digifiend]] ([[User talk:Digifiend|talk]]) 03:48, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
::'''The video.''' --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 03:49, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
:::Seems more likely to be some sort of mistake, given that the other videos don't feature that and the press release specifically omits the word. Anyway, I have contacted Nintendo regarding the title of the games, and will wait to see what they have to say about it. --[[User:Dorsal Axe|Dorsal Axe]] ([[User talk:Dorsal Axe|talk]]) 17:14, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
::::[http://www.nintendo.co.uk/Misc-/Nintendo-Direct/2013/Pokemon-Direct-08-01-2013/Nintendo-Direct-699626.html What about the Nintendo's UK website?] --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 21:46, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
:::::All of the official Nintendo websites, including even the Pokémon website clearly state it as '''Pokémon X''' and '''Pokémon Y'''. There is '''no''' official Nintendo website that calls them "Pokémon X Version" and "Pokémon Y Version".—[[User:Platinum Lucario|Platinum Lucario]] ([[User talk:Platinum Lucario|talk]]) 08:19, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
::::::The point is that in the official Pokémon Direct announcement it is present. Every other main series game has it, and in the official announcement (which is on official Nintendo websites) it uses it. Until we get boxart, we should follow what we have been given. It is very commonplace to drop "version" when talking about the titles (Iwata did it himself in the Pokémon Direct video, while "version" was shown on the screen). --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 08:38, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
:Okay, [http://i.imgur.com/9ANSo.png Nintendo got back to me]. According to them, it's just "Pokémon X" and "Pokémon Y", and they go on to mention that whatever the website says is the "current" and most up-to-date official source. (and I must say, I'm impressed with how quickly they responded :p). --[[User:Dorsal Axe|Dorsal Axe]] ([[User talk:Dorsal Axe|talk]]) 13:36, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
::Then they forgot to remove the Version thing in the video. This seems solid enough for us. We would be moving this page to '''[[Pokémon X and Y]]''' and doing all necessary changes soon (not before letting the rest of the staff know). [[User:Masatoshi|Masatoshi]][[User_talk:Masatoshi|''talk'']] 14:32, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
:::Upon further discussion, we decided to put the moving on hold until we make sure of some stuff related to TPCi. It's still strange that after 15 years, they decide to drop "Version" just like that. [[User:Masatoshi|Masatoshi]][[User_talk:Masatoshi|''talk'']] 16:49, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
::::Aww, can't you please move the page already? It's already been confirmed by Nintendo that it's called simply '''Pokémon X''' and '''Pokémon Y''', it even says that in the official '''logos''' of the trailer and official website of http://www.pokemon.com/pokemonxy/en-us/ that it's only called Pokémon X and Pokémon Y. What do you think? Do you really think it's going to change just to the way you think it's going to be? I'm afraid you're just not used to change, and I understand it takes us a while to adapt to change. ^^—[[User:Platinum Lucario|Platinum Lucario]] ([[User talk:Platinum Lucario|talk]]) 04:38, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
:::::It has nothing to do with being afraid of change. We needed to be absolutely sure, which is why they've put it off so far. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 05:22, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
::::::I'm sure we have had plenty of proof that it is simply Pokémon X and Pokémon Y, having known that http://www.pokemon.com/pokemonxy/en-us/ is an '''official source''' that comes from the '''official''' Pokémon website. That website alone is enough to make you absolutely sure that it really is '''official'''. ;) —[[User:Platinum Lucario|Platinum Lucario]] ([[User talk:Platinum Lucario|talk]]) 14:47, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

==New region==
In this article it states that the new region is likely based off of France but the [[Generation VI]] page says it draws inspiration from various points within Europe. The pages should be more consistent and more neutral about the subject. [[User: Ariano|Արիանո]] 14:50, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
* The Nintendo Direct Trailer begins with Pikachu atop the Eiffel Tower. Unova draws from inspirations outside of the strict real world New York; it's not conflicting to say it's both based on France and draws inspiration from the rest of Europe.

== Trivia to be added, I believe... ==

A bit of trivia to be added:
*These are the first main series games to have letters in the title rather than color names.
*The game titles may be named after the X and Y axes of the [[wp:Cartesian coordinate system|Cartesian coordinations]]. ~~'''''[[User:LDEJRuff|LDE]][[User talk:LDEJRuff|JRuff]]'''''~~ 10:04, 8 January, 2013 (UTC)
:Given that the Japanese logos clearly have DNA helixes in them, I think it's safe to say that they were going for genetics. Not coordinates. [[Typhlosion (Pokémon)|★]][[User:Jo The Marten|Jo the Marten]][[Flygon (Pokémon)|★]] [[User_Talk:Jo The Marten|ಠ_ಠ]][[Cilan (anime)|♥]] 15:10, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
::Why not both? --[[User:Dorsal Axe|Dorsal Axe]] ([[User talk:Dorsal Axe|talk]]) 15:23, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
:::Because the Japanese logos have DNA helixes in them so they are standing for genetics, not coordinates. It was made pretty clear by Jo. [[User:Rainbow Shifter|Rainbow Shifter]] ([[User talk:Rainbow Shifter|talk]]) 17:09, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
They're obviously named after the x and y chromosomes, not coordinates. [[User:Munlax|Munlax]] ([[User talk:Munlax|talk]]) 17:14, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
::::Could it not be a double meaning? [[User:Digifiend|Digifiend]] ([[User talk:Digifiend|talk]]) 17:16, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
:::::And what makes you think it's coordinates? For all I know, we could also use algebraic expressions. So far, Jo's bet is the safest. Since it has helixes that resemble a DNA string, it's unlikely to have been based in coordinates. [[User:Masatoshi|Masatoshi]][[User_talk:Masatoshi|''talk'']] 17:19, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
::::::It's obviously based on Genetics, but Gamefreak and Nintendo love puns. X axis and Y axis. If the third legendary forms a Z shape, then I think it's safe to say that it's also partially a stealth 3DS pun --[[User:Shadowater|Shadowater]] ([[User talk:Shadowater|talk]]) 20:26, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
::Why would it be based off coordinates anyway? It makes more sense to have them based off genetics seeming as you breed Pokemon in the game. And no, it has been said numerous times: The Japanese logos have '''DNA''' helixes in them. End of story. [[User:Rainbow Shifter|Rainbow Shifter]] ([[User talk:Rainbow Shifter|talk]]) 17:23, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
::::That doesn't really discount the other reasoning. You may notice the logo is also in 3D text (which they've never done for a logo before), which would indicate to me that they're going for a double entendre with the titles. --[[User:Dorsal Axe|Dorsal Axe]] ([[User talk:Dorsal Axe|talk]]) 17:41, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
:::::::I thought it was to do with the buttons on the DS and 3DS consoles, shows what I know...[[User:TurtleLover1999|TurtleLover1999]] ([[User talk:TurtleLover1999|talk]]) 20:31, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
More trivia for your perusal: They'll be the first main series games to be released simultaneously worldwide, and "Pokemon X" was the original name for both Lugia and Pokemon Crystal. '''[[User:Luigi-San|Luigi-San]]''' 22:10, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
::::::::I agree about the released simultaneously worldwide as I was planning to suggest that myself. -[[User:Tyler53841|Tyler53841]] ([[User talk:Tyler53841|talk]]) 02:13, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
::::::I don't think that the genetic base is so obvious, that thing in the logo can mean a lot of things. Also the coordinates reasoning in the first 3-'''dimentional''' game on a '''3D'''S is supported by the fact that Yveltal is flying while Xerneas is on the ground, like the axes. Can't be a coincidence. However save this geneticVSgeometic debate til we know if there is any Z Pokemon. It would kill the genetic theory and support the coordinates one. --[[User:Tano|Tano]] ([[User talk:Tano|talk]]) 20:22, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
:::::::The fact that one flies and the other one roams the land does not mean they are based in coordinates or spacial axes, it CAN be a coincidence. The DNA string is heavily implied in the Japanese logo and supports the theory, while the axial theory only has a "What if the third version is Z?" as its support, and the fact that Xerneas runs horizontally (Even diagonally when it jumps!) and Yveltal flies (although horizontally, vertically, diagonally, you name it). [[User:Masatoshi|Masatoshi]][[User_talk:Masatoshi|''talk'']] 20:35, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
::::::::They would have been pretty stupid if they made them able to move only horizontally or vertically, and unable to jump. What kind of argument is that? The point is that the X axis on a graph goes across, the Y axis goes up, and is the Y Pokemon that flies, while the X pokemon is on the ground, not the opposite. However, ''as I said'', we should wait. I'm not saying that the coordinates theory is the right one (well, that's my intuition), but I don't think you have any proof to say for sure that they're related to chromosomes either, except a small low definition detail on the logo that could be anything. I can totally see a Z pokemon related to stereo3D coming. It's almost impossible that they'll do nothing to use the 3D function of the console. —[[User:Tano|Tano]] ([[User talk:Tano|talk]]) 21:14, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

==Based off France?==
To suggest the region will 'likely' be based on France seems to be speculation of the sort that the banner of the top forbids, Tokyo also has a structure like the Eiffel Tower. [[User:Alexsau1991|Alexsau1991]] ([[User talk:Alexsau1991|talk]]) 17:12, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
:The streets have an European-like setting; Pikachu spread his message from a location that seemed to be the same as France; that tower looks like the Eiffel Tower and it seems to use gray instead of white and red. While it's not confirmed, it is plausible that the region might be based in France. [[User:Masatoshi|Masatoshi]][[User_talk:Masatoshi|''talk'']] 17:18, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
::While it seems plausible, even likely. Isn't it still speculation? And why the entire region, rather than that particular city (I don't recall France having a desert, for example)? Castelia City in Black and White is said to be based off New York, yet the entire region isn't said to be based on the USA. [[User:Alexsau1991|Alexsau1991]] ([[User talk:Alexsau1991|talk]]) 17:23, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
:::There's a big difference between the USA and France, the US is a massive country (in terms of size and little would be explored, if not ignoring plenty of cities). I for one think it ''may'' be based in Europe, but that city, along with that picture with the bridge remind me of the {{wp|Palace of Versailles}}. Most people seem to agree it might be based in Europe/France, so for the time being, we'll leave it like this. [[User:Masatoshi|Masatoshi]][[User_talk:Masatoshi|''talk'']] 17:50, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
::Pikachu's pretty clearly shown on the Eiffel Tower, in a country in the general location that everyone expects France to be. --[[User:Dorsal Axe|Dorsal Axe]] ([[User talk:Dorsal Axe|talk]]) 18:05, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
:::Regardless it is very blatant '''speculation''', of which this encyclopaedia has clearly warned it's editors of avoiding. Popular agreement is '''NOT''' ''"confirmation by a reliable source"''. What's the point in that rule, if your so keen on breaking it? [[User:Alexsau1991|Alexsau1991]] ([[User talk:Alexsau1991|talk]]) 18:41, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
::::Yeah, I do agree that it's speculation right now. It's like when everybody put Kyurem as the third member of the Tao trio before it was confirmed, despite them arguing tooth and nail and out right refusing to allow Giratina to be stated as the third member of the Dragon trio before Platinum came out [[User:Shadowater|Shadowater]] ([[User talk:Shadowater|talk]]) 20:28, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
:::::Exactly. It's really inconsistent. As an admin, it seems as if Masatoshi is going for a 'do as I say, not as I do'. You can't rule 'no speculation', then allow a piece that you favour, or personally find convincing.
:::::Even if the Eiffel Tower could be considered more than speculation, how do we arrive at the fact the WHOLE region is based on France?.. It's conjecture after conjecture... [[User:Alexsau1991|Alexsau1991]] ([[User talk:Alexsau1991|talk]]) 01:04, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
::::::In the trailer, Pikachu is seen on top of the Eiffel Tower. Literally. The camera zooms out and shows it in France. Saying the region is based on France is less of speculation, and more of an observation giving readers some idea what the region looks like. Rather than explaining every tiny little detail about the location, we can just blanket sweep it by saying, "It looks a lot like France." But obviously it's NOT France, cause Pokémon regions have almost never been real locations. (Sans Kanto. Kind of.) [[Typhlosion (Pokémon)|★]][[User:Jo The Marten|Jo the Marten]][[Flygon (Pokémon)|★]] [[User_Talk:Jo The Marten|ಠ_ಠ]][[Cilan (anime)|♥]] 01:31, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
:::::::I think it would be a good idea to forbid this from being posted for now until more conclusive proof is gathered by any means from official sources to verify this though it would be a very slim chance that any of this is true. -[[User:Tyler53841|Tyler53841]] ([[User talk:Tyler53841|talk]]) 02:16, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
::::::::I should also point out that Junichi Masuda's current Twitter profile picture is him next to the Eiffel Tower and there is at least one message commenting on his trip to France. Possibly a coincidence, though it's hardly an argument against the region being based off France. - [[User:Blazios|Blazios]] [[User Talk:Blazios|talk]] 02:23, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
:::::::::Texas has an Eiffel Tower. Japan has a Statue of Liberty too, but Japan isn't the first place you think of when you think of the Statue of Liberty, is it? Then don't even get me started on Las Vegas. Pikachu is in the real life France in the intro, the girl's attire seems very French to me personally, the Pokémon team went to France for "work related reasons". I don't really see anything pointing it away from France, and I'm done having this discussion. There are more important things to worry about. [[Typhlosion (Pokémon)|★]][[User:Jo The Marten|Jo the Marten]][[Flygon (Pokémon)|★]] [[User_Talk:Jo The Marten|ಠ_ಠ]][[Cilan (anime)|♥]] 02:53, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
::::::::::huh. didn't know france had a desert. that city is obviously based on paris, but i have doubts on the entire region being based on france alone. just my 2cents, i could be wrong, but hey, speculation is speculation ;) [[User:Tarilaan|Tarilaan]] ([[User talk:Tarilaan|talk]]) 11:37, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
:::::::::::Pretty sure there's not a desert full of ancient ruins or mountain ranges in New York City, either, yet they're both in Unova. The game COULD be based in all of Europe, but so far we've only seen evidence of France. Saying the game "seems to be based on France" doesn't exclude the possibility of it also being based on other areas as well, in any case. --[[User:ACDragonMaster|ACDragonMaster]] ([[User talk:ACDragonMaster|talk]]) 02:54, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
:Europe is the safest assumption til the game is released and we can tell for sure if it's France or more. No reason to rush guys, we don't have enough information. Even if all we have seen is from France (it's not), it still doesn't mean that there won't be any Pisa Tower or Berlin Wall or Roman Coliseum (that I'd very much like) in another footage. --[[User:Tano|Tano]] ([[User talk:Tano|talk]]) 20:25, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
::Also the 2 legendaries "Xcalibur" and "Yvern" have a great European feeling more then French. –[[User:Tano|Tano]] ([[User talk:Tano|talk]]) 21:16, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
::Exactly, we don't have enough information, so why should we jump to "it seems to be based on Europe" from the get-go? If anything, all evidence points to France (Eiffel tower, Versailles, Pikachu's location, Masuda's trip, etc.) It's still speculation, however, one way or the other.[[User:Gacs|Gacs]] ([[User talk:Gacs|talk]]) 08:02, 13 January 2013 (UTC)
:::France is in Europe. I think it's a safe assumption. —[[User:Tano|Tano]] ([[User talk:Tano|talk]]) 10:17, 13 January 2013 (UTC)
::::The page says Europe. I am putting an end to this discussion on Bulbapedia. If you wish to speculate more on the subject, take it to [http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/f693/ the forums]. Subsequent messages will be removed, and blocks may be handed out. [[Typhlosion (Pokémon)|★]][[User:Jo The Marten|Jo the Marten]][[Flygon (Pokémon)|★]] [[User_Talk:Jo The Marten|ಠ_ಠ]][[Cilan (anime)|♥]] 10:50, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

Masuda himself said in a Q&A at E3 that the region is based off of France. [[User:KennyMc0294|KennyMc0294]] ([[User talk:KennyMc0294|talk]]) 0145, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

== Region is based in France ==

Besides the obvious Eiffel Tower reference, I found out that the buildings shown are reminiscent of Paris's type (which was forced as an official style there) and additionally, the place Pikachu is giving the conference is Paris.
I'm including the picture for future reference.
[http://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/large/714858374.png?key=25601440&Expires=1357683885&Key-Pair-Id=APKAIYVGSUJFNRFZBBTA&Signature=cMmYD40-9pvM7rc2~DneFwveDyESiYlke9L7VLrKMgbxx17yzOX7SfaL0oLKZUA~kRH4KcIMGYHdMDnfQ35-hhN50gESVjsub7Jbcpfstq2AhsJnHXQVj36ktl~N5qZLf9cNqzq71xKIMedbWhyydovcNqw3jd~j6ylnFaxcxh4_]
--[[User:M.vit|M.vit]] ([[User talk:M.vit|talk]]) 22:09, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
:There's a section discussing that right above this one. Please join that conversation instead of starting a new section for the same thing. '''''[[User:Pokemaster97|--Pokemaster]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|97]]''''' 22:15, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

== Except South Korea ==

In the video, they only say "except select countries". --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 22:20, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

== Xerneas and Yveltal ==

Pokemon.com just confirmed the names of the mascots: Bambi is called Xerneas and Tweety is called Yveltal. http://www.pokemon.com/pokemonxy/en-us/ [[User:NP Chilla|NP Chilla]] ([[User talk:NP Chilla|talk]]) 14:14, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

== Interwiki ==
Why don't you add the other lenguages? [http://wiki.pokemoncentral.it/Pok%C3%A9mon_X_e_Y Central Wiki], [http://www.pokewiki.de/Pok%C3%A9mon_X_und_Pok%C3%A9mon_Y PokéWiki], [http://poketeca.com/wiki/Pok%C3%A9mon_X_y_Y Pokéteca] ? --[[User:Zapdos96|Zapdos96]] ([[User talk:Zapdos96|talk]]) 18:02, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
:Done. (Thanks for the reminder.) --[[User:神奇超龍|'''超龍''']]「'''[[User talk:神奇超龍|Chao]]'''」 18:09, 12 January 2013 (UTC) 

== Name origin ==

According to Japanese websites, the X and Y refer to the chromosomes --[[User:Ext|Ext]] ([[User talk:Ext|talk]]) 18:18, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
:Link to the source please. ☆[[User:Solar Dragon|The]] [[User talk:Solar Dragon|Solar]] [[Special:Contributions/Solar Dragon|Dragon]]☆ 20:38, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
:[http://blog.esuteru.com/archives/6852422.html]here at comment #1154 talking about the logo showing DNA. Also here [http://pokemonxy.jp/news/20130108/pokemon_dna.html] read the article. The logo on the article should be updated. --[[User:Ext|Ext]] ([[User talk:Ext|talk]]) 13:25, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

== Error ==

It says "The first Pokémon '''to be released'''" when it should say "The first Pokémon '''revealed'''". —[[User:Clubchloe1|'''Club''']][[User talk:Clubchloe1|'''chloe1''']] 19:49, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

== Bolero Time ==
So are we going to completely ignore the fact that the male character is blatantly skating/roller-blading in the trailer?
Twenty-six seconds in to the trailer. I mean, this is new game-play right? I'm mentioning it here because I know if I just go ahead and put it in I'll get loads of "well he might be using Surf or something" complaints because for some reason it's only worth adding if an admin happens to like it. So yeah. [[User:Me, Hurray!|Me, Hurray!]] ([[User talk:Me, Hurray!|talk]]) 22:52, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

== November 2, 2013 ==

Gamestop apparently lists the game's American release as Nov. 2nd, 2013? Is this true, and if so, wouldn't the article need to be updated to match it?--[[User:Darknesslover5000|Darknesslover5000]] ([[User talk:Darknesslover5000|talk]]) 05:38, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
:Gamestop usually lists a incorrect date before a game comes out, so I wouldn't worry about updating the page. --[[User:Funktastic~!|'''It's''' '''Funktastic~!''']][[User talk:Funktastic~!|''話してください'']] 05:43, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
::Thank you. I can rest easy--[[User:Darknesslover5000|Darknesslover5000]] ([[User talk:Darknesslover5000|talk]]) 05:48, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
:::No so much an incorrect date as their estimation. They have to make these estimations for the purposes of preorders. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 07:26, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

== RFE: Broken Link in Bulbanews box ==

The Bulbanews box currently gets the link wrong:

'''<nowiki>{{bulbanews|game}}</nowiki>''' links to [[:n:Category:Articles relating to Pokémon X and Y]] but the actual page is [[:n:Category:Articles relating to Pokémon X and Y Versions]].

It should be '''<nowiki>{{bulbanews|game|Pokémon X and Y Versions}}</nowiki>''' instead. --''[[User:Stratelier|Stratelier]]'' 19:16, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
:I've changed the category on Bulbanews. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 06:52, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

== Mewtwo's Awakened Form ==

A new, Mewtwo-esque Pokémon has been revealed. It needs to be added to this page.
*http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vk_YC0MXJ-0&list=PLQWzKIaERirwczLwQE6HegZyd4pYV5AwH
*http://www.pokemon.com/pokemonxy/en-us/
[[User:MasterZ|MasterZ]] ([[User talk:MasterZ|talk]]) 23:48, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

It should be added on this page, but there isn't much anyone can write about it, as nothing is known except for the fact it's similar to Mewtwo. (Although in my opinion, I think it should just be noted with a photo about the new Pokemon in the Pokemon X and Y page and the Generation VI page). Btw, this new generation is totaly getting me pumped up for October! I know thats not a place to say that, but yea, just wanted to put that out there! LOL Hopefully new information will be available soon! :) PokeNerd 07:07, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

Well, it's been added. Now we have to keep an eye out for its name... Maybe in the meantime we could just call it "New Mewtwo". [[User:MasterZ|MasterZ]] ([[User talk:MasterZ|talk]]) 20:15, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
:NO. Absolutely no speculating for now. We need to wait for an official name. ''[[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen]] [[User talk:Frozen Fennec|Fennec]]'' 20:21, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

While I agree 100% with no speculation, if the image is there, the presence of this new Mewtwo-like Pokemon and its role in the new movie should be mentioned under "New Pokemon", especially since I believe that would make it the first Gen VI Pokemon to appear in the anime. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] ([[User talk:Drake Clawfang|talk]]) 22:07, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

We should call it ?????????? for now. [[User:MewtwoForm2|MewtwoForm2]] ([[User talk:MewtwoForm2|talk]]) 23:04, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
:We just need to wait. That's all I have to say regarding its name. ''[[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen]] [[User talk:Frozen Fennec|Fennec]]'' 23:08, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

I agree, leave it how it is! There is nothing further that anyone can tell at this time! Like I said above, they have only stated it shares similarities to Mewtwo and nothing else at this time! Naming it "??????????" is pointless, having a photo on the Pokemon X and Y page is just fine (how it is now). When more CONCRETE evidence is revealed, then a page should and will be made for the new Pokemon! Till then, lets just be amazed and in awe of this new Pokemon! :) PokeNerd 11:10, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

[[User:Poko10|Poko10]] ([[User talk:Poko10|talk]]) 10:35, 13 April 2013 (UTC)PEOPLE i found a probable corocoro leak! It confirms that the new "mewtwo" IS a new forme. :D
*Same here, it's probably okay to label its box as "Mewtwo" or "New Mewtwo forme" at this point. [[User:Darthrai|Darthrai]] ([[User talk:Darthrai|talk]]) 14:25, 13 April 2013 (UTC)
::[[n:CoroCoro reveals last week's unveiled Pokémon to be Forme of Mewtwo]] --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 14:45, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Not to speculate, but considering the movie's called Mewtwo's Awakening, and the form is described as Mewtwo awakening in its new form, I would say it's called "Awakened Form". But we should just wait for more info and add the artwork to the [[Mewtwo]] page. [[User:MasterZ|MasterZ]] ([[User talk:MasterZ|talk]]) 15:57, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

I agree we should probably wait for more information before we start naming things. [[User:Poko10|Poko10]] ([[User talk:Poko10|talk]]) 00:08, 14 April 2013 (UTC)
:When a name comes out, we'll add it, but this talkpage isn't the place to speculate about what it could be. '''''[[User:Pokemaster97|--Pokemaster]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|97]]''''' 00:22, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Now that its been confirmed as a new forme of Mewtwo, can that be officially added to the page and Mewtwo's page? Or should we wait? Demers-Vachon 01:45, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Why was the new Mewtwo picture removed in the recent update?
[[User:CrystalHalfBreed|CrystalHalfBreed]] ([[User talk:CrystalHalfBreed|talk]]) 19:18, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
:Because its been confirmed to be a new form and not a new Pokémon. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 11:29, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Maybe we should make a new section for revealed forms of pokemon? Or place something in the screen shot section? It seems weird not to have any of this news anywhere on the page.
[[User:CrystalHalfBreed|CrystalHalfBreed]] ([[User talk:CrystalHalfBreed|talk]]) 15:51, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

== Possible Pokémon X and Y Release date ==

Hi! I'm new at this and I wanna share something to you all.

While I'm searching the web about Pokémon, I found a Wikipedia page titled ''2013 in video gaming'' and I was so excited to see a release date for ''Pokémon X and Y''. This maybe unofficial because I couldn't see any reference about the date. So here's the link: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_in_video_gaming#October.E2.80.93December 2013 in video gaming]

I hope this will help and also please reply... thank you! --[[User:AwesomeDJPokemon|AwesomeDJPokemon]] ([[User talk:AwesomeDJPokemon|talk]]) 15:10, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

:From our article:

::"The paired versions will be released worldwide (except for select countries) on '''October 2013''' and will be available for both retail sale and download."

:It was announced in the first trailer I believe. --[[User:Spriteit|Spriteit]] ([[User talk:Spriteit|talk]]) 15:13, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
::Yeah, basically everyone has known the release date since the games were announced. I wonder where you have been for the past three months.--'''[[User:Dennou Zenshi|電禅]][[User talk:Dennou Zenshi|Den Zen]]''' 15:23, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

::: Well, I knew that it was going to be released in October but I was talking about the exact '''date''' of the release. --[[User:AwesomeDJPokemon|AwesomeDJPokemon]] ([[User talk:AwesomeDJPokemon|talk]]) 15:30, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
:::: Oh, sorry. I didn't notice that there was '20' in the table. I'm sure it's just an assumption though.--'''[[User:Dennou Zenshi|電禅]][[User talk:Dennou Zenshi|Den Zen]]''' 15:52, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

:::::Thank you for noticing it! I just wanna contribute to you guys this and other information about the game and the franchise. --[[User:AwesomeDJPokemon|AwesomeDJPokemon]] ([[User talk:AwesomeDJPokemon|talk]]) 16:06, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
::::::Wikipedia is only reliable when a source is provided. I tracked down [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2013_in_video_gaming&diff=539765900&oldid=539723107 the edit which added the 20], and no source was provided. I have now removed that from the Wikipedia page. Thanks for pointing it out though. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 12:51, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
::::::: Just to let you know, the release date that says October 20th is back on that wikipedia page, I even called my game stores in my home town and all of them just have October 2013, no specific date. So whoever added that to wiki page, needs to A) remove it or B) provide a real source to where they got that release date from! PokeNerd 01:19, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
::::::::The same user removed it later, so it's fine now. (Also, we really shouldn't use a Bulbapedia talk page to discuss a Wikipedia issue.) --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 08:12, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

== Lots of new Pokemon revealed, new region revealed, slight customization revealed, etc. etc. ETC! ==
Seriously, this is a news overload. We even have some info about the starters! Somebody, add all this! Especially the new Pokemon! We even have pages for them, now! {{unsigned|Poko907}}
:Please allow some time, we've been working hard to add and update in a timely manner. The new information will be added ASAP. '''''[[User:Pokemaster97|--Pokemaster]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|97]]''''' 15:59, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
:: It's on the page now! Awesome! {{unsigned|Poko907}}

== Boxes exist now ==

[[a:File:X EN boxart.png]] [[a:File:Y EN boxart.png]] can you stick these on--[[User:Pikachu Bros.|Pikachu Bros.]] ([[User talk:Pikachu Bros.|talk]]) 18:32, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

== Female player ==
We don't have ANY pictures of her official art, despite some pictures of her being on the official site. I was wondering why she isn't there, considering all of the new Pokemon, the region, a city, and more being added in. [[User:Poko907|Poko907]] ([[User talk:Poko907|talk]]) 21:09, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

The pictures on the official site ARE official art. [[User:MasterZ|MasterZ]] ([[User talk:MasterZ|talk]]) 20:58, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

== Downloadable citation? ==

Where was it (first?) stated that X and Y will be downloadable titles from the eShop? Or is it just a rule now for 3DS games? --[[User:Johans|Johans]] ([[User talk:Johans|talk]]) 02:32, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
:Found it in history: http://www.famitsu.com/news/201301/08026993.html Maybe this needs citation, though. --[[User:Johans|Johans]] ([[User talk:Johans|talk]]) 02:48, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

== Disambiguation clarification ==

Shouldn't the article have some kind of introductory disambiguation statement situated somewhere at the article's beginning? Something like:

:''This article is about the game'' Pokémon X.'' For other referrals, see [[Pokémon X]].''
[[User:Fenyx4|Fenyx4]] ([[User talk:Fenyx4|talk]]) 20:36, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
::There's no need. Searching [[Pokémon X]] already takes you to that page. There are no terms that redirect here that could be confused with other items on the disambiguation page. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 13:11, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

== Character Designs ==

The news overload continues... According to the Official Pokémon X and Y website, when you choose your gender, you have 3 different character designs to choose from. You can also change your outfit later on. [[User:MasterZ|MasterZ]] ([[User talk:MasterZ|talk]]) 23:40, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

== Opposite Player ==
The PC you don't choose will appear sometime during the storyline, as shown in the trailer. Mystriously, she doesn't have her trademark hat. Maybe it's the same for the male PC, but we can't speculate on pages, so. {{Unsigned|Poko907}}
:When in which video were the male and female players shown in the same screen? -[[User:IVsaur|EVsandIVsaurs]] 17:33, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
::[http://www.pokemonxy.com/_ui/img/_en/screenshots/may_supp_p3_5.jpg Here]. We're not adding it, though. We have zero information on the context of the scene and assuming that girl is opposite gender player character is pure speculation at this point. [[User:Ataro|Ataro]] ([[User talk:Ataro|talk]]) 17:44, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
OK. [[User:Poko907|Poko907]] ([[User talk:Poko907|talk]]) 01:00, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

== Concept Art? Official? ==

[http://oyster.ignimgs.com/wordpress/stg.ign.com/2013/05/Lumiose-City-scene-illustration.jpg]

I found this on IGN's article on new stuff from XY, It said concept art, is this official, if so shouldn't it make its way to the image gallery?

Also sorry, I have no idea how to make it smaller so I just put it as a link. Other wise it would have stretched the page. [[User:Yamitora1|Yamitora1]] ([[User talk:Yamitora1|talk]]) 09:42, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
:I don't know if it would be classified as concept art, but it's real. It's used on the article for Lumiose City. --[[User:HoennMaster|Hoenn]][[User talk:HoennMaster|Master]] 15:25, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

== Ken Sugimori ==

I asked this on Helioptile's page as well, but no one answered, so here it goes:
Whenever a new Pokemon is released, as is the case with the 4 new Pokemon recently released, we get official artwork from them. But how do we know definitely that the artwork is always by Sugimori? Of course, it is his art style, but that's not so hard to mimic for a professional...
So how do we know? --[[User:Phoenixon|Phoenixon]] ([[User talk:Phoenixon|talk]]) 20:52, 30 May 2013 (UTC)
:We know that Sugimori always draws the Pokemon, so until we're told otherwise, it's pretty safe to assume. In fact, I'm pretty sure others have drawn artwork for player characters, or other characters, and we've been told that. Of course, it might also say it somewhere, but I never look at the places where the artwork is revealed. --[[User:Funktastic~!|'''It's''' '''Funktastic~!''']][[User talk:Funktastic~!|''話してください'']] 21:33, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

== Noivern, Vivillon, and Pokémon-Amie ==

Don't forget to add them. [[User:MasterZ|MasterZ]] ([[User talk:MasterZ|talk]]) 18:31, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

== Korean release date confirmed ==

It'll be [http://pokemonxy.pokemonkorea.co.kr/product.html October 12th, 2013] like the rest of the world (that's a first!) ... I'd add it myself, if the page was unlocked. -- [[User:Nick15|Nick15]] ([[User talk:Nick15|talk]]) 03:06, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

== Possible player names ==

From the official website: [http://www.pokemonxy.com/_ui/img/_en/screenshots/june_p1_02.jpg] However, I'm not sure if these are 100% a confirmation, as back when Black and White were coming out Hilbert and Hilda were shown as "Blair" and "Whitley" in some screenshots. Should we start calling XY's players Xavier and Yvonne or play it safe for now? [[User:Reign|Reign]] ([[User talk:Reign|talk]]) 07:07, 12 June 2013 (UTC)
:It's the same exact thing as Blair and Whitlea. We're playing it safe for the moment. [[User:Ataro|Ataro]] ([[User talk:Ataro|talk]]) 08:14, 12 June 2013 (UTC)
::Righto then. On a related topic, apparently according to CoroCoro, their Japanese names are Callum (m) and Serena (f).[[User:Reign|Reign]] ([[User talk:Reign|talk]]) 00:57, 13 June 2013 (UTC)
:::Callum and Serena are the names on the official site for the rivals. -[[User:IVsaur|EVsandIVsaurs]] 13:35, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
::::Should we change the names of the "Hero" and "Heroine" to Calem and Serena? - {{u|Rockettitan7}}, 12:36, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

==Versions...again==

So this was already talked about earlier and the official artwork seems to confirm there is no version in the title. However, Nintendo's [http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/130612/02.html E3 briefing] calls them X Version and Y Version. --[[User:HoennMaster|Hoenn]][[User talk:HoennMaster|Master]] 03:22, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
:I think we're going to have to assume that's a mistake for now. We have box art and there is no "Version" on them. On Pokémon.com [http://www.pokemon.com/us/pokemon-video-games/pokemon-black-version-and-pokemon-white-version/ all other games] say "Version" while [http://www.pokemon.com/us/pokemon-video-games/pokemon-x-and-pokemon-y/ X and Y] don't. I think the best source we have is the box art, so until we get box art with "Version" we should just consider the titles to not contain "Version". --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 10:21, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

== Languages ==

Why has it not been added to the article that this is the first game to have all 7 languages in one cartridge? -[[User:IVsaur|EVsandIVsaurs]] 12:09, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

== June CoroCoro Pokemon ==

I can't help but notice that the 4 pokemon shown in June CoroCoro ([[Litleo]], [[Flabebe]], [[Scatterbug]], and [[Spewpa]]) have not been added to the list of X and Y Pokemon. Is that an oversight, or are no more pokemon being added their because of lack of room? --[[User:Senoel99|Senoel99]] ([[User talk:Senoel99|talk]]) 17:26, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

== Characters needs to be updated ==

Can someone change Hero and Heroine to Calum and Serena (also those pages need to be created, but anyway), and add Shauna, Tierno, Trevor, Alexa, and Viola as well. Thanks.
[[User:CoolDudeAl|CoolDudeAl]] ([[User talk:CoolDudeAl|talk]]) 21:04, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

Calum and Serena are the names of the rivals and Calum is your rival when you choose the female character and Serena is your rival when you play as the male character. [[User:KennyMc0294|KennyMc0294]] ([[User talk:KennyMc0294|talk]]) 01:37, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

Calem and Serena are also the default names for the hero and heroine respectively. And yes, there should be Shauna, Tierno, etc. in the characters list. [[User:Functioning Blaziken|Functioning Blaziken]] ([[User talk:Functioning Blaziken|talk]]) 13:25, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

== The image for spewpa ==

The image of spewpa is cut from the corocoro leaks, The official artwork is alredy uploaded to BulbaNewsNOW's twitter I think you should replace it, I'll do it but I don't know how, I am new here. {{unsigned|SuckMyBlood}}
:It usually takes some time before the new version of an image is correctly shown on every page the image is on. ☼ [[User:Blazingfist|Blazing]][[User talk:Blazingfist|Fist ☼]] 23:32, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

== Player default names? ==

Are the player's names Callum and Serena for the male and female respectively? I heard it somewhere, but I'm not sure. [[User:Functioning Blaziken|Functioning Blaziken]] ([[User talk:Functioning Blaziken|talk]]) 15:30, 16 June 2013 (UTC)
:Calem and Serena, but yes, they are the official names. [[User:Ataro|Ataro]] ([[User talk:Ataro|talk]]) 15:53, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

== Mistake ==

I can't edit the article, but this sentence sounds wonky to me:
"The Player Search System (PSS) is a multiplayer feature that always people to connect, battle, and trade with other players through the internet." [[User:Eevee-Girl|Eevee-Girl]] ([[User talk:Eevee-Girl|talk]]) 06:50, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

I think it's been changed to 'allows' now. [[User:Functioning Blaziken|Functioning Blaziken]] ([[User talk:Functioning Blaziken|talk]]) 13:21, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

== '''ヒトツキ''' ==

Shouldn't [[ヒトツキ]] (Hitotsuki [Monorpale]) be added to the new Pokémon section?--[[User:ShinyPatch|ShinyPatch]] ([[User talk:ShinyPatch|talk]]) 18:44, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

== spewpa art ==

someone '''really''' needs to try and reupload the spewpa art. It sticks out so painfully. [[User:0danmaster0|0danmaster0]] ([[User talk:0danmaster0|talk]]) 21:40, 5 July 2013 (UTC)
:The file was updated with the official version of the artwork almost a month ago over on the Archives, but the thumbnail still hasn't synced for some reason. Regardless, the file itself is up-to-date. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 18:23, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

== version exclusives ==

since we now know of two pairs of version exclusives I think it is worth making a preliminary list. [[User:0danmaster0|0danmaster0]] ([[User talk:0danmaster0|talk]]) 16:06, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

== Korean feature, etc, names ==

Because I don't have any other place to put these... I'll just place them here for posterity.

===Features of X&Y===
* 무리배틀 ''{{tt|Muri|swarm}} {{tt|Baeteul|Battle}}'': Horde Encounters
* 스카이배틀 ''{{tt|Seukai Baeteul|Sky Battle}}'': Sky Battles
* 포켓파를레 ''Poket'pareulle'': Pokémon-Amie; based on its Japanese name PokéParler (ポケパルレ ''Pokeparure'')
* The "Player Search System" (PSS) is specifically "PSS".
:* 홀로캐스터 ''Hollokaeseuteo'': Holocaster feature
:* 배틀스폿 ''Baeteul'seupot'': Battle Spot feature
:* O파워 ''O-pawo'': O-Powers feature

===Names for new attacks include===
* 문포스 ''Mun'poseu'': Sylpheon's attack "Moonblast"
: It's just the transliteration of "Moon Force"

* 파라볼라차지 ''Parabolla'chaji'': Helioptile's attack "Parabolic Charge"
: It's just the transliteration of "Parabola Charge"

* 니트로차지 ''Niteuro'chaji'': Fletchling's attack "[[Flame Charge]]"
: It's just the transliteration of "Nitro Charge"
:* But this isn't a new attack :X

* 막말내뱉기 ''Makmal'naebaetgi'': Pamcham's attack "Parting Shot"
:* 막 ''mak'': "just" (as in, "I just got it for you!") or "act" (as in a play)
:* 말 ''mal'': "language, speech"
:: 막말 ''makmal'': also means "a blunt remark", "rude talk"
:* 내뱉기 ''naebaetgi'': "spit", "hurl", "blurt" (specifically used with "words", like "the words just hurled out of their mouth")
:: So "Rude talk spit".

* 우드호른 ''Udeu'horeun'': Gogoat's attack "[[Horn Leech]]"
: It's just the transliteration of "Wood Horn"
:* But this isn't a new attack :X

* 폭음파 ''Pok'eumpa'': Noivern's attack "Boomburst"
:* 폭(爆) ''pok'': pop, burst, explode
:* 음(音) ''eum'': sound
:* 파(波) ''pa'': wave
: So "Explosive Sound Wave".

.... I'll add more in a little bit. -- [[User:Nick15|Nick15]] ([[User talk:Nick15|talk]]) 02:32, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

I just realized some of the attacks aren't new... so I've made note of those above, and will only post about the Korean names for the new ones below.

* 부르짖기 ''Bureujijgi'': Litleo's attack "Noble Roar"
:* 부르 ''bureu'': to call out, hail, summon
:* 짖 ''jij'': bark, howl, roar
:: So "Hail Roar"

* 요정의바람 ''Yojeong'ui-baram'': Flabébé's attack "Fairy Wind"
:* 요정 ''yojeong'': fairy, sprite (so, "fairy")
:* 의 ''ui'': XXX's
:* 바람 ''baram'': wind
:: So "Fairy's Wind" or... "Fairy Wind".

....That's all I got for now. -- [[User:Nick15|Nick15]] ([[User talk:Nick15|talk]]) 17:49, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

Here's Xerneas' and Yveltal's abilities and attacks in Korean:
* Xerneas:
:* 페어리오라 ''Pe'eori'ora'': Xerneas' ability "Fairy Aura"
:* 지오컨트롤 ''Jiokeonteurol'': Xerneas' attack "Geomancy" (though it's "Geo Control" in Korean)

* Yveltal:
:* 다크오라 ''Dakeu'ora'': Yveltal's ability "Dark Aura"
:* 데스윙 ''Deseu'wing'': Yveltal's attack "Oblivion Wing" (though it's "Death Wing" in Korean) -- [[User:Nick15|Nick15]] ([[User talk:Nick15|talk]]) 03:01, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

===Other bits===
* Lass Anna's name is 이화 ''I'hwa''

-- [[User:Nick15|Nick15]] ([[User talk:Nick15|talk]]) 18:34, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

== Artwork ==

Can someone please add the artwork of the five new Pokemon? Like, Inkay, Spritzee, etc.? [[User:Nutter Butter|Nutter Butter]] ([[User talk:Nutter Butter|talk]]) 19:04, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

Uhhhhh it needs done again :P [[User:Nutter Butter|Nutter Butter]] ([[User talk:Nutter Butter|talk]]) 20:49, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

==Languages==
Can someone please add the fact that all the localizations will have the same languages (mentioned [http://www.pokemonxy.com/en-us/news/news_languages_2.html here]), as it is a very notable change? [[User:TheOriginalOne|'''The''']][[User talk:TheOriginalOne|'''Original''']][[Special:Contributions/TheOriginalOne|'''One''']] 23:13, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

== Character artwork ==

There have been many more characters revealed than the player characters so far, shouldn't their artwork be added to the page?[[User:Voltdetector|Voltdetector]] ([[User talk:Voltdetector|talk]]) 09:21, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

== Mini sprites. ==

IT seems they've changed mini sprites. I've compared the one at evostone example, and it looks different from what we have. [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] ([[User talk:Marked +-+-+|talk]]) 09:29, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

== Oorotto ==

Since [[Oorotto]] has been revealed now, shouldn't the article be created now? [[User:Pokebub|Pokebub]] ([[User talk:Pokebub|talk]]) 06:30, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
:Hold your horses there, bucko. I'm sure it's being worked on in someone's userspace already. The admins keep track of the news and are well aware of when things are revealed; there's no need to prod at talk pages. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 07:04, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

== Do all the Pokémon need to be shown? ==

There are quite a few Pokémon now, surely we don't have to see artwork for them all. Maybe just Froakie, Chespin and Fennekin. [[Emboar|This]] [[Butch|is]] [[Cassidy|Mkbw50]] [[Ritchie|signing]] [[User:Mkbw50|off]] 08:52, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

== MegaEvolutions ==

Shouldn't there be a section on Mega Evolutions. It might be a little too soon and not enough information on them yet because they just got comfirmed, but maybe at least mentioning them now and adding on later.[[User:Spiknoway84|Spiknoway84]] ([[User talk:Spiknoway84|talk]]) 03:12, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

== Super Training ==

Shouldn't somebody add a section on Super Training? There's a section on Mega Evolution, and Super Training was revealed the same day. [[User:Functioning Blaziken|Functioning Blaziken]] ([[User talk:Functioning Blaziken|talk]]) 13:16, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

== New Pokémon ==

The artwork for the new Pokémon revealed yesterday- Dedenne, Bunnelby and Skiddo- is missing. [[User:Functioning Blaziken|Functioning Blaziken]] ([[User talk:Functioning Blaziken|talk]]) 13:20, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

== Missing Appearances ==
I've noticed that many of the new Pokemon are missing their "Physiology" descriptions, when it should be easy to write once you know what they look like shouldn't it? [[User:Ziggyangelo88|Ziggyangelo88]] ([[User talk:Ziggyangelo88|talk]]) 19:10, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

== Character artwork ==

There have been new characters revealed, such as Gym leaders like Viola, Citron and Korrina and other characters like Professor Platane, your rivals and Team Flare, shouldn't they be added to the new characters section? [[User:Voltdetector|Voltdetector]] ([[User talk:Voltdetector|talk]])

== Fairy type info update ==

It is now known that {{t|Fire}} resists Fairy, so that will need to be included. [[User:Berrenta|Berrenta]] ([[User talk:Berrenta|talk]]) 17:29, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

== Additional Demo Info ==

Tierno is seen walking around, there is a second maze area where you can interact with a Litleo, and Flabébé are seen in the flowers. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P83GIhzxKq0 Source] --[[User:HoennMaster|Hoenn]][[User talk:HoennMaster|Master]] 18:43, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

== pika ==

Am i the only one who who heard pikachu go "pika pika" when it fainted in the demo instead of its normal cry?[[User:Deoxys80|Deoxys80]] ([[User talk:Deoxys80|talk]]) 20:48, 21 August 2013 (UTC)
:Mewtwo's and Crobat's cries have been remastered to sound more like modern Pokémon, and Pikachu's has been replaced with its anime voice. I suspect it hasn't been added to the page because we want to wait to see exactly how thorough the changes are, to avoid spreading misinformation. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 21:26, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

== Demo ==

The Pokémon that can be found in the demo are: Pikachu, Bunnelby, Litleo, Exeggutor, Skitty and Flabebe. Also, all of them can be found in both grass and flowers. Please update. --[[User:Caciulacdlac|Caciulacdlac]] ([[User talk:Caciulacdlac|talk]]) 13:37, 31 August 2013 (UTC)

==Features update==
Pokémon Bank, please. [[User:TheOriginalOne|'''オリ''']][[User talk:TheOriginalOne|'''ジ''']][[Special:Contributions/TheOriginalOne|'''ナル''']] TheOriginalOne 16:38, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

==Should the Korean box art be under the Japanese box art?==
Since both the Japanese and Korean box art for Pokémon X and Y have two different writing systems (which is the main difference not only between each other but also the box art of the Americas and Europe) should it also be included not only in this article as well as the other games that also have Korean box art? [[User:sion8|sion8]] ([[User talk:sion8|talk]]) 20:38, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
:As far as I'm aware, the only box art shown prominently on pages are the Japanese, since it's the original language, and the English language box art. --[[User:Funktastic~!|'''It's''' '''Funktastic~!''']][[User talk:Funktastic~!|''話してください'']] 21:37, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
::Well that is true, which is why I would like the box art of the Korean versions that have been created such as the original Pokémon Gold and Silver as well as all the generation IV and V games that have Korean box art to also be part of the respective games' articles in the same way the Japanese box art is hidden until one clicks for it to be shown. [[User:sion8|sion8]] ([[User talk:sion8|talk]]) 12:14, 10 September 2013 (UTC)
:::We include the English-language box art because we are an English-language wiki and we include the Japanese box art because it is the original. If we included any others, we would have to include all of them, which would be quite unwieldy (even with a [show]/[hide] box). I'm not opposed to giving each game page a subpage that would show the box art from every international version, but I really think we don't need any more on the main articles. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 14:29, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

== US Gamestops to give exclusive Timeline away with preorder! ==

I just went to my local Gamestop (to obtain the Shiny Palkia of course) and found out anyone who has preordered ''Pokémon X'' and ''Y'' will receive an exclusive Timeline consisting of the covers to all the US release of the Pokémon version games from 1998 to ''X'' and ''Y''. [[User:FanOfCountry|FanOfCountry]] ([[User talk:FanOfCountry|talk]]) 17:34, 11 September 2013 (UTC)
:Here is the information from the [http://www.gamestop.com/collection/pokemon-x-and-y Gamestop website]. [[User:FanOfCountry|FanOfCountry]] ([[User talk:FanOfCountry|talk]]) 17:37, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

==Fairy type==
The info for the Fairy type needs to be updated on this article since we now know what it's strong and weak against. It's super effective against Dragon, Fighting and Dark. Fire, Poison and Steel resist the Fairy type and Fairy immune to Dragon. [[User:Poke'fan07|Poke'fan07]] ([[User talk:Poke'fan07|talk]]) 02:17, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

== 09/17 Japanese eShop trailer (evening, clothing customization, radical ledge revolution) ==

The [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TotwurUNRdI&feature=youtu.be&t=2m47s Japanese eShop trailer] has revealed the following! I apologize if any of this is old information -- I have trouble keeping everything straight.
*The trainer's hand is visible when catching a Pokémon. Pokémon don't have any special animations for the capture sequence.
*[[Houndour]] horde.
*When Mega Evolving a Pokémon, their (possibly updated) stats and health bar will reappear before the process is over. The Mega-evolved Pokémon will be listed under its normal name, with a Mega Stone icon next to its level.
*Battles and trades through the [[Player Search System]] take place in a holographic-style environment.
*Evening is present in the game. You can see the sun setting behind the [[Tower of Mastery]].
*Clothing customization seems straightforward. When accessing the clothing customization screen, the player can select "Hats" (Head accessories?), "Tops," "Pants" (bottoms?), "Dresses" (full-body outfits?), "Socks," "Shoes," "Bags" (large accessories?), and "Glasses" (small accessories?). (Note: these are just my guesses based on the menu icons.) The trailer shows the player selecting the "Tops" menu, then browsing through different colors of a "Mini-length Parka." The trailer shows red, pink, green, and another unknown color for the parka. Different clothing styles may result in different visual effects when exiting the customization menu: a "sporty" female trainer is surrounded by brightly-colored lines, while a more "feminine" female trainer is surrounded by pink flowers. Customized clothing shows up on the avatar while they're running around in the overworld.
*A Team Flare grunt states that Team Flare's objective is only its own members' happiness.
*When riding a Pokémon (in this case, Skiddo), the player can '''jump up ledges'''. We are surely in a new generation.
The trailer also showed some new scenery: a pier lined with small motor boats, a grassy path with a holographic (news?) screen and a pair of [[Twins]] (?), and a long, arched hallway with chandeliers opening up onto a courtyard. [[User:Arpha|Arpha]] ([[User talk:Arpha|talk]]) 02:36, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

== Fossil Evo pics ==

Seeing that there has been a few [[Tyrantrum (Pokémon)|more]] [[Aurorus (Pokémon)|pictures]] revealed, I'm guessing you guys are going to stop adding new Pokémon pictures as they are revealed now? Would make sense as the release date is coming closer and soon this page will have to be like {{g|Black and White}}. ----[[User:NateVirus|NateVirus]]''([[User talk:NateVirus|Talk]]''|''[[Special:Contributions/NateVirus|Contributions]]'') 23:24, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

== Sprites? ==

Now that the editing ban is gone, how are we going to add the in game sprites to all the Pokemon's pages? --[[User:Cj1227|Cj1227]] ''([[User talk:Cj1227|Need Something?]])'' 18:32, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
:I think the Pokédex sprites could be a good starting point. If someone can, in-battle sprites could also be good. Anyway, I agree that those artworks should be replaced with actual sprites. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 18:45, 25 October 2013 (UTC) PS. Somebody should remove the editing ban on Bulbagarden Archives as well so that this would be possible. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 18:48, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

== What are my pokemon doing? ==

--[[User:Darkmaster|Darkmaster]] ([[User talk:Darkmaster|talk]]) 02:42, 31 October 2013 (UTC)Lately I have been noticing that when I enter a battle, my pokemon shakes a bit. It occasionally also gives me messages like Yveltal looks a little excited, or Furfrou is a little nervous. Can anyone explain what it means?
:Your pokemon has some hearts on the affection meter, which results from playing pokemon-amie--[[User:BigBadBatter|BigBadBatter]] ([[User talk:BigBadBatter|talk]]) 04:11, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

== Friend Safari and version exclusives ==

I've seen that a recent edit has deleted some of the version exclusives because they can caught in friend safari in any version. Should it be reverted? --[[User:el shendee|el shendee]] ([[User talk:el shendee|talk]]) 9:35, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

== Plot? ==

Could somebody please add the plot to Pokémon X and Y, like how it is with the other main series pages on Bulbapedia? Thanks! [[User:Zorocario|Zorocario]] ([[User talk:Zorocario|talk]]) 16:32, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

== Double negative ==

In the beginning of page, it says: "The '''non'''-Japanese versions are so far the only ones '''not''' to have the term Version in its name."
Wouldn't it be easier to remove the double negative here, as in: "The Japanese versions are so far the only ones to have the term Version in its name."
--[[User:Phoenixon|Phoenixon]] ([[User talk:Phoenixon|talk]]) 13:15, 27 December 2013 (UTC)
:Your rephrasing has a different meaning, and makes it incorrect. The current phrasing was quite misleading though (and also incorrect, since the Korean main series games do not use "Version"), so I have changed it. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 13:46, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

== Sprites for Gen 6 Pokemon + 3 Unused Pokemon ==

we need sprites for gen 6 pokemon.
plus, there is 3 unused pokemon, they might become event pokemon:
Diance, Hoopa, And Volcanion.
i would post the pics but i can't because i'm not allowed to upload photos to bulbagarden archives.. --[[User:Igor The Mii|Igor The Mii]] ([[User talk:Igor The Mii|talk]]) 19:42, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
:Please consult {{DL|Bulbapedia talk:Editor's Hub|Regarding Volcanion, Hoopa and Diancie|the existing discussion about them}}. They will not be added at this time. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 19:45, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
::As for the issue of the sprites, I believe that progress is being made on that front. If you would like to do so, I would recommend talking to an active member of the {{bp|staff}} if you believe that you can help out. --[[User:Super goku|Super goku]] ([[User talk:Super goku|talk]]) 05:23, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

== "Latin-based language versions " ==

English and German aren't 'latin based' like Spanish, French and Italian are. It's probably better to say 'european language versions' {{Unsigned|Jmvb}}
:Good point, I'll change that. Also, next time, please sign your talk page posts with <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>. -- [[User:EnosShayrem|EnosShayrem]][[User_talk:EnosShayrem|talk]] 01:02, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

== Changing the Language ==

Can you change the language by deleting you file? {{unsigned|Daniel kenta}}
:A little late, but since you can LRSTARTSELECT to change the language, yes. [[User:Pikachu Bros.|Pikachu Bros.]] ([[User talk:Pikachu Bros.|talk]]) 17:22, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
::By soft-resetting? I don't get that.
::In any case, yes, deleting your save means deleting your language as well, so you go through the language selection again too. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 17:41, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
:::The only time you can change the language is when you start a new game. This includes when you delete you old save. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 08:53, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

== New Trivia Information? ==

I think the trivia should note that "X and Y are the first Pokemon games at the start of a generation where you can catch a legendary Pokemon from another generation without an event item." I mean it like- Red/Blue, Gold/Silver, Ruby/Sapphire, Diamond/Pearl, Black/White, X/Y. In X and Y, you can catch Mewtwo '''''and''''' one of the Legendary Birds. [[User:PokemonRen|PokemonRen]] ([[User talk:PokemonRen|talk]]) 20:42, 29 June 2014 (UTC)
:I don't think that's very notable, it seems to be stretching it a bit anyway. --[[User:SuperPikaBros|Super]][[User talk:SuperPikaBros|Pika]][[Special:Contributions/SuperPikaBros|Bros]] 21:45, 29 June 2014 (UTC)
::I don't know. I'm typically skeptical of trivia like this, but looking into it it seems to be valid. Previous-gen legendaries in past generations have only been catchable in third versions, sequels, and remakes, but X and Y break that trend by including earlier legendaries right out of the gate. I think that's notable. --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] [[User talk:AndyPKMN|(talk)]] 18:28, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

== Possible Trivia ==
I am pretty sure this game has the most rivals and the trivia is lacking is this note worthy? also it is the first 3D pokemon game is this note worthy? first game to have a battle after the champion (AZ)? just trying to kick start the trivia here [[User:Pokemonisawesome2|Pokemonisawesome2]] ([[User talk:Pokemonisawesome2|talk]]) 04:17, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

Talk:Shauna

2014-08-16T04:07:55Z

Pokemonisawesome2: /* only rival w/ puesdo legendary? */

== Korean name for Shauna ==

Her Korean name is 사나 ''Sana''.
* Transliteration of Japanese name. -- [[User:Nick15|Nick15]] ([[User talk:Nick15|talk]]) 23:10, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

== only rival w/ puesdo legendary? ==

i am not sure i dont remember but i am pretty sure shes the only rival to use a puesdo legendary can someone double check? if it is true is this worthy of trivia? {{unsigned|‎Pokemonisawesome2}}

yeah I just quick skimmed through the rivals in they're final matches non but her have puesdo legends. Note worthy? {{unsigned|‎Pokemonisawesome2}}
:[[Blue (game)#Rematches|Blue uses Tyranitar]] in FireRed/LeafGreen.--[[User:Cold|Cold]] ([[User talk:Cold|talk]]) 19:08, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
::oh yeah, see I checked the initial match I didnt see the rematch thanks. I tought it was weird blue didnt have any because all the champions I can remember do. what about that she is the only rival you fight in the begining of the with a starter weak to yours, like in red&blue you pick then blue grabs the starter ur weak to then u fight I am pretty sure every game your first rival battle is just the starter your weak to at lvl 5 but in X&Y u fight shauna who picks the starter ur strong against (this needs re-wording I cant say this right hopefully you get the gist) is this noteworthy? I wanna put something in trivia cause it bothers me there isnt even a trivia section. (sry all my stuff is unsigned I am REALLY forgetful) [[User:Pokemonisawesome2|Pokemonisawesome2]] ([[User talk:Pokemonisawesome2|talk]]) 00:50, 16 August 2014 (UTC)
:::That's not unique to Shauna either, [[Bianca]] also picks the starter with a type disadvantage.--[[User:Cold|Cold]] ([[User talk:Cold|talk]]) 01:45, 16 August 2014 (UTC)
::::gosh darnit I completely forgot about that. thats right u fight both cheren and bianca in the begining god this is why i have like no edits

Talk:Shauna

2014-08-16T00:50:41Z

Pokemonisawesome2: /* only rival w/ puesdo legendary? */

Talk:Shauna

2014-08-15T18:37:25Z

Pokemonisawesome2: /* only rival w/ puesdo legendary? */

Talk:Shauna

2014-08-15T18:29:22Z

Pokemonisawesome2:

Talk:Legendary Pokémon/Archive2

2014-08-12T19:11:34Z

Pokemonisawesome2: /* Green Dragon */

[[Talk:Legendary Pokémon/Archive1|Archive #1]]

== WTF? ==

Giratina controls dimensions? That's stupid... can somebody remove that? Time and Space (depth, lengh and width) are the freaking dimensions everyone! So Giratina has more power than both Dialga and Palkia? I think not. Remember that Giratina lives in the Distortion World... a place that disobeys the laws of Time and Space. '''[[User:Hfc2x|hfc]][[User talk:Hfc2x|2X]]''' 22:26, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

There are 2 types of dimensions, matematical, which you were talking about, and spacial, which would be under Giratina's control. If you don't belive me, look up "Plane (metaphysics)" on Wikipedia. The dimensions that Giratina controls are '''alternate planes of exictence''', also called '''dimensions'''!- ''unsigned comment from {{u|GuyNamedSean}} ([[User talk:GuyNamedSean|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/GuyNamedSean|contribs]]){{ #if: | {{{2}}} |}}''
:It seems that Giratina can control gravity, or atleast that is how I enterpreted the explanation of its form shift. It also makes some sense because gravity could be considered a third factor in time-space [[User:Enigmaberry|Enigmaberry]] 02:29, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

:I agree with hfc2X, this needs to be changed. It was never officially stated anywhere that Giratina controls dimensions or anything at all, really. If you guys are going to write up fan speculation, you can at least, you know, actually make a note of that. [[User:Marlowe|Marlowe]] 02:17, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

:An additional note, after editing the page a few times I noticed that only established users are allowed to make changes, my mistake there. Still, this needs to be changed for accuracy. [[User:Marlowe|Marlowe]] 02:30, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
::You do realize that this talk section is from BEFORE Platinum was released in English, right? '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 02:34, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
::What does that have to do with anything? Whether it's from one day or even five years ago, it doesn't change the fact that a change still needs to be made. As an encyclopedia, this doesn't need fanon crap. [[User:Marlowe|Marlowe]] 02:36, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
:::Because Platinum confirmed it. Duh. '''~ platinum[[User:Sol|s]][[User talk:Sol|o]][[Special:Contributions/Sol|l]]''' 02:37, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
::::Prove it, then. [[User:Marlowe|Marlowe]] 02:38, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
:::::Disprove it, then. '''~ platinum[[User:Sol|s]][[User talk:Sol|o]][[Special:Contributions/Sol|l]]''' 02:39, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
::::::It is also said in the Distortion World by Cyrus about Giratina's control over dimensions...I'm way, way ahead of that, otherwise I'd give you the exact quote.--[[User:PsychicRider|'''Psychic''']][[User talk:PsychicRider|'''Rider''']]''''[[Special:Contributions/PsychicRider|'''☮''']]'' 02:39, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
:::::My bad. I forgot. Giratina can't go between dimensions, or drag people into the Distorted World, or anything like that. Sorry. I guess it has no real power. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 02:40, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
:::::::Spare me the reverse psychology, Sol, you said that Platinum confirmed it and I'm telling you to point to me where that was specifically confirmed. You're the one making false claims, not me. It was never stated that Giratina controls dimensions, this is FAN SPECULATION which is something that Bulbapedia frowns on if I'm not mistaken. At least it's something they should be frowning upon. [[User:Marlowe|Marlowe]] 02:45, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
::::::::If you can't prove that it hasn't been proved, then it's useless to try and say that it's fan speculation. PsychicRider has confirmed it, so no, it's not fan speculation. '''~ platinum[[User:Sol|s]][[User talk:Sol|o]][[Special:Contributions/Sol|l]]''' 02:46, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
:::::::::Quit acting like a politician and disprove it. You're avoiding what somebody tells you that goes against what you're trying to say. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 02:49, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
:Sol, you're the one who's in a position to prove something, not me. I basically asked "Where was that confirmed?" and you've yet to answer that question. I would like the specific quote of Cyrus stating this, though, as I don't recall it. [[User:Marlowe|Marlowe]] 02:53, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
::I'm way past that, as in Battle Frontier past, but I do remember that it is confirmed from Cyrus's dialogue. --[[User:PsychicRider|'''Psychic''']][[User talk:PsychicRider|'''Rider''']]''''[[Special:Contributions/PsychicRider|'''☮''']]'' 02:59, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
:::So I'm apparently supposed to conveniently be at the point in time where Cyrus says that specific quote. '''~ platinum[[User:Sol|s]][[User talk:Sol|o]][[Special:Contributions/Sol|l]]''' 03:02, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
::::No, this isn't a perfect quote, but: "Hmm... so Giratina disappeared into the real world... it doesn't matter. I'll capture it, and then I'll use the dimensional powers of Giratina to form a new world here and destroy the real one." '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 03:06, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
:::::I believe that's the quote I was looking for...boys, we have our proof. :D. --[[User:PsychicRider|'''Psychic''']][[User talk:PsychicRider|'''Rider''']]''''[[Special:Contributions/PsychicRider|'''☮''']]'' 03:08, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

:::::In that case (if that was explicitly stated), I stand corrected. Thanks. [[User:Marlowe|Marlowe]] 03:10, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
::::::Don't mention it. It only took me 30 minutes to think of. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 03:13, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

:Not to sound like a broken record here, but I've just gotten through the Distortion World on my second run-through and Cyrus doesn't make that statement anywhere. I even saved right before the battle with Giratina to see what Cyrus would say in both scenarios (catching Giratina or defeating it), but the dialogue only changes slightly and there's still no explicit mention of it having control over dimensions. Besides, aren't space and time dimensions as well? Judging from some of the official interviews on Giratina I've just read, I'm more inclined to say that Giratina simply controls antimatter. If I'm not mistaken, antimatter IS considered to be the third factor out of time and space, after all. I propose that we take "dimensions" out of the sentence. [[User:Marlowe|Marlowe]] 08:22, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
::I watched a Youtube video and saw the same thing. But no. Dimensions isn't coming out. The descriptions aren't just for the games, but also the anime/movies you have to remember. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 12:30, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

== Bubbly Mew ==

Wherever I go, whatever I read that's about Mew or the first movie, it says something like "The Bubbly Mew appeared in the first move", or something like that. Now, why is it called "Bubbly Mew" and why is it just the Mew in the first movie? And where did that term of Bubbly Mew ever come from?--[[User:Dragonbeastx|DRAGON]][[User talk:Dragonbeastx|BEAST]][[User:Dragonbeastx/The Aura Spot|X]] 22:25, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
:Maybe it's that the Mew in the first movie enjoyed making bubbles. [[user:Simpsonsdude13| SD13 Simpsondude13>''']][[user talk:Simpsonsdude13|SD13 Talk]] 20:44, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
==Phione?==
Does Phione really count? And why not Unown? I always thought of the symbols as legends. Me and my fellow torchics agree on this - Sk8torchic
:Phione counts because to get one you have to breed a legendary. Unown doesn't because it's extremely distant from any other legendary. Note the beasts and the birds. Sure they're separated by the powerhouses and events by Dratini and Larvitar's families, but they're next to each other and divided from the others by no more than three Pokémon. Unown has 50 down and 42 up. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 23:41, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
::So all legends have to be near each other in the pokedex? Since when? Me and my fellow torchics agree on this - Sk8torchic 16:07, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

:::Besides, nobody would buy Unown being legendary, what with how they're found all over the place in the [[Ruins of Alph]], [[Tanoby Chambers]], and [[Solaceon Ruins]]. Trust me, in the time it takes to breed for one Phione, odds are one could catch 2 PC boxes entirely full of Unown (although there's no guarantee that all 28 forms would be included)...--[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 16:54, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

== Can we really stop saying that Rayquaza is based on a Ziz ==

It really isn't. The closest thing we have to a bird whose wingspan is large enough to block out the sun is Lugia, atleast according to the accounts of an elderly NPC in Ecruteak city.--[[User:Outrage DD|Outrage DD]] 22:05, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
:Well, Groudon isn't a giant hippo...elephant...rhino...''thing''...—[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 23:56, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
::They are both based on the concept of these legendary creatures. Masters of the sky and land respectivly.--[[User:MisterE13|Mister]][[User talk:MisterE13|'''E''']][[Special:Contributions/MisterE13|13]] 00:43, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

== Info ==
Why is {{P|Rotom}} not a legendary?, I'm not complaining, I just want to know why.[[User:Pokemonguy1|Pokemonguy1]] 18:28, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
: *[[Talk:Rotom_(Pok%C3%A9mon)/Archive_1|slaps with a wet Magikarp]]* Archives are your friends. — [[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|THE TROM]] — 01:46, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

because it doesn't have monster stats--[[User:Pokemongirl1|PG1 FTW!]] 15:25, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

:Neither does {{p|Phione}}, and yet it's still a Legendary. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 19:17, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

::That's because {{p|Manaphy|a legendary is needed to obtain it}}. --'''[[User:Theryguy512|Theryguy]][[User Talk:Theryguy512|512]]''' 19:40, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
:::Just a reminder that this is a forums topic.... o_0 Go there, peeps. — [[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|THE TROM]] — 09:38, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

All you need to do to catch it is to press a on a tv during night time. to get a phione, like it was said before, you need to have manaphy and breed it. --[[User:Usyflad10|Usyflad10]] ([[User talk:Usyflad10|talk]]) 23:35, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Rotom can breed; legendary Pokemon cannot. Manaphy being the exception but it's more of a 'novelty' that it produces Phione when it lays an egg. [[User:Bttsstewart|Bttsstewart]] 03:02, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

== Legendary Pokémon group picture ==

I made this: [http://student-kmt.hku.nl/~abel1/PF2pictures/Legendary%20Pok%e9mon.jpg]

I think it'll be nice if it was placed in this article, next to (or instead of) that Entei pic.

Greetz,
Abel
:It's nice really but the thing is that the Johto legends will be getting new artworks soon and, maybe, the admins might not like the signature on the upper right. Also, Deoxys is actually shorter than Mewtwo. [[User:Tc26/Anime Predictions|tc]][[User:Tc26|²₆]][[User talk:Tc26|tc]][[User:Tc26/Sandbox|26]] 12:33, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
::Just a reminder that fan art, I think, is generally frowned on. While that is very impressive, we can't use it here. — [[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|THE TROM]] — 21:06, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

== Latios and Latias ==

So I know that the current pic is better than the last, but I'm pretty sure it's {{tt|fan made.|Copyright info doesn't make it official... it only makes the claim that somebody owns the rights to characters...}} And we aren't supposed to have fan pics on pages. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 21:06, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
:Are you sure about that? That's the same font the Pokémon Company uses, it's in Sugimori's style, ''and'' it has his {{wp|Seal (East Asia)|hanko}} on it...—[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 22:31, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

::{{tt|Who's the girl though?|forgot about this since the database was locked at the time...}} '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 21:09, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
:::Beats me. But that's definitely official. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 21:21, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Latios and Latias should be jhoto legendaries because the movie takes place in jhoto.
[[User:JetanHertz13|JetanHertz13]] 00:18, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
::That's... nice? If you join in a conversation that's like... 5 months old, at least add something important. [[User:The Dark Fiddler|The Dark Fiddler]] - [[User talk:The Dark Fiddler|You enter a poorly lit room...]] 00:54, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
:::Latios and Latias appear in a Johto-era movie because they needed to hype up Hoenn. Der. The Eon duo don't even appear in Johto in HGSS, they're roaming Kanto! And it's '''''JOHTO''''', not Jhoto. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 00:27, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Since Heatran being the first with a variable gender is mentioned, shouldn't it be mentioned that they were the first legendaries to have genders? [[User:Goldenpelt|Goldenpelt]] 08:09, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

== Protection Error? ==

Isn't this page protected? I had no problem editing it, and I'm no admin. --[[User:CuboneKing|CUBONE PWNS]] ([[User talk:CuboneKing|Planet Cubone]] • [[Special:Contributions/CuboneKing|Bone Club]]) [[Cubone (Pokémon)|THE VERY BEST PAGE!]] 20:28, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
:New users are blocked from editing (which, at the current state of the wiki does nothing). Only admins may move the page, though. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 20:31, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
::Ohhhhhhhhh... NOW I get it... --[[User:CuboneKing|CUBONE PWNS]] ([[User talk:CuboneKing|Planet Cubone]] • [[Special:Contributions/CuboneKing|Bone Club]]) [[Cubone (Pokémon)|THE VERY BEST PAGE!]] 20:35, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

== Trivia: Legendary Pokémon Themes ==

It should be noted that in the upcoming games, HeartGold and SoulSilver, that Lugia and Ho-Oh now both have their own, distinct themes in the upcoming games. It was confirmed on the "never before seen footage" on Pokémon Sunday where they revealed meeting Lugia and Ho-Oh in the games. :) From the small clips you can hear, Ho-Oh's theme seems to be very Japanese-percussion based (taiko drums) and Lugia's is very orchestral-dramatics based. {{unsigned|Gimmetokyo}}

I wonder if it's also pertinent to mention that the legendary beasts in HG/SS technically have their own unique themes, as well - or perhaps it would be more accurate to say that they have their own unique remixes of a theme. Either way, their battle music in HG/SS is not shared (identically, at any rate) with any other Pokemon. --[[User:Xatni|Xatni]] 01:07, 2 June 2010 (UTC)Xatni

== New article ==
Since the Legendary Trios and Duos have articles, should the Legendarys without a group (Trio Master's not included) get there own article too? {{unsigned|Blackstone Dresden}}

:If you mean Legendaries like {{p|Mew}}, {{p|Celebi}}, and {{p|Manaphy}}, then no. What would we write that isn't already on their own pages? '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 04:16, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

== Arceus HGSS pic ==

[[:a:File:Arceus - HGSS Event Artwork.jpg|thumb|left|150px]]
 How about adding it? -- [[User:RikkiKitsune|R<s>ikki</s>]][[User talk:RikkiKitsune|Kitsune]] 21:26, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

If I could, I would!--[[User:The Bulb's Master|The Bulb's Master]] 12:45, 13 August 2009 (UTC) Master of Bulbasaur and Turtwig♀

:I didn't place that one since one for the Azure Flute event would be better. It would be similar to Darkrai and Shaymin. [[User:Tc26/Anime Predictions|tc]][[User:Tc26|²₆]][[User talk:Tc26|tc]][[User:Tc26/Sandbox|26]] 12:49, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

::I'll put it in for now. We can always change it when the Flute event gets its own artwork. We're using the HGSS Beasts artwork aren't we? '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 16:25, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

== Edit! ==
I can't edit, but one of you should include that they can be found in Sinnoh.--[[User:The Bulb's Master|The Bulb's Master]] 12:44, 13 August 2009 (UTC) Master of Bulbasaur and Turtwig♀

== "Legendary" ==
Is the term "legendary" an official descriptor or one applied by the fandom? [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 23:55, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
:Its official. It appears in the games, anime, and all sorts of sources. It even appears in some Pokédex entries. '''[[User:Blake|Blake]]''' [[User talk:Blake#top|Talk]]·[[Special:Contributions/Blake|Edits]] 01:38, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
::Yeah, I've been playing Blue and the first instance of the term "legendary Pokemon" is on Route 14 by a Bird Keeper, for future reference. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 03:45, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

==[[Arcanine]]==
"If you were looking for the "Legendary Pokémon" species, see Arcanine (Pokémon). "
Why does it say that? What does it have to do with anything [[User:Qim1|Qim1]] 00:05, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
:Arcanine's [[species]] name is "Legendary Pokémon". In comparison, Bulbasaur's is "Seed Pokémon". Just on the off-chance that someone thinks Arcanine is actually a Legendary Pokémon, in the sense meant on this page. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 01:28, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
::Arcanine is considered as legendary in Chinese... since many [[Pokédex]] entries says Arcanine is from China.[[User:Palkia38|Palkia38]] 07:09, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

==Pokemon of Legend, Illusion, and Myth==
Is there any source for these categories of legendaries? The main paragraph suggests the Japanese versions identify legendaries differently that was narrowed for translation... What Pokemon are in these various categories, and why? What exactly do the Japanese versions say? [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 03:48, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

==Slowpoke/king==
This may meet with some dissent, but would Slowpoke or Slowking qualify under "Other Pokemon of myth"? Slowpoke is pretty dominantly featured in GSC and HG/SS, as well as the corresponding anime episode, as the savior of Azalea in time of need. He's practically worshiped there. I don't believe this story was ever explicitly stated as fact, but rather as a cultural legend of sorts. That means Slowpoke is featured in a legend, and so possibly counts as a low-tier legendary like Arcanine of Togepi.

Slowking may same to fit the position more, but the extent of its qualification are the second movie. I don't know if human speech, a knowledge of ancient prophecies, and a role in that prophecy coming true/being resolved counts as a legendary, but should also be considered.

So, what are the opinions on counting on or both as minor legendaries? I'll agree to any consensus, but just thought it would be worth bringing up since Slowpoke does garner some "It's a legendary" statements from time to time. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 00:48, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
:Pastoria worships Croagunk. Does that mean it's a minor legendary too? Slowpoke, as far as I know, only gets mentioned as legendary [[User:TTEchidna/Slopoke (that i ran into the other day)|when people are being sarcastic]].--'''[[Water (type)|Liquid]]''' [[Mask of Ice|'''ICE''']] (User:Cold)([[user:Cold|page]], [[User talk:Cold|talk]]) 00:55, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
::I was unaware of Croagunk's position in that area, though that does get me thinking... Slowpoke, Croagunk, and possibly some of the "Other Pokemon of myth" featured here might do well on a "Pokemon of cultural significance" kind of article. I expect gen 5 will introduce at least one new Pokemon that is treated similarly to these two, so at that time it might be feasible to make such an article. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 00:58, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
:::We need more than two Pokémon of culutral significance to make it an article. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 01:02, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
::::Which is why I suggested waiting until gen 5 when another Pokemon may be featured. But, as it stands now, Arcanine, Ninetails, and the Togepi line are strong candidates for such an article. Note that "legendary" is as much a fan-term as a canon one, so creating a corollary term for culturally-significant Pokemon would be ideal as well as alleviate the constant arguing about who is and isn't a legendary, when frankly many of the supposed legendaries ''would'' make more sense in a culture article. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 01:07, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

== Unique Pokemon ==

: So which Pokemon exactly are "unique" besides Mewtwo? I'm just curious. Also, has it ever been '''confirmed''' that Mewtwo is unique? [[User:LugiaRocks|'''LugiaRox''']] 02:34, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
::Well he is the first cloned legendary, first created legendary. But that's probably speculation.--'''[[User:Midnight Blue|Midnight]] [[User talk:Midnight Blue|''Blue'']]''' 03:49, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
::: Mewtwo is a special case. He's not even a "legendary" in the in-universe sense (no associated legends), only in the fanon sense. Discussing what other Pokemon are "unique" is beating a dead horse, since it's been done before and there's no way we can no for sure. Looking at it one way, nearly every Pokemon is unique, but in another way there's room for multiplies. Who knows? As for created Pokemon akin to Mewtwo, I'm sure that area will be explored at some point. Come gen 5, all the loose strings will be tired up. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 03:55, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
:::: I believe we could safely say that Arceus is unique. [[User:LugiaRocks|'''LugiaRox''']] 05:07, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
::::: Arceus is the personification of a concept. There could very well be more than one, with each being an avatar of an incomprehensible concept. It's called pantheism. Hindis practice it. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 05:46, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
::::::Hindu's you moron, hindi is the language they speak in india!--[[User:Minimag|Minimag]] 05:14, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
::::::: Does it really matter? And the term "Hindi" also applies to Hindu literature and culture. Religion/mythology is within the scope of culture, so there you go. I know my use of language. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 05:22, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
::::::::I thought it was polytheism. Anyways, in Hinduism concepts, gods are an aspect of Brahmna, the eternal being, which could be what Arceus could be based on, with the three major aspects of Brahma being legendary trios. Though I doubt this because Nintendo is based in Japan and not India. [[User:Turtwig A|Turt]][[wig]] [[Turtwig (Pokémon)|A]] ([[User talk:Turtwig A|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|contribs]]) 00:31, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
(reset indent)

The non-uniques are:
*Mew ([[Mewtwo Strikes Back]] & [[Lucario and the Mystery of Mew]])
*Lugia ([[The Power of One]], [[Silver (Johto)|Silver]], and possibly Movie 13)
*Regirock, Regice, Registeel ([[Brandon's Regis]] & [[Lucario and the Mystery of Mew]])
*Regigigas ([[Giratina and the Sky Warrior]] & [[DP129]])
*Lati@s ([[Pokémon Heroes]])
*Deoxys ([[Destiny Deoxys]])
*Manaphy ([[Pokémon Ranger and the Temple of the Sea]])
*Phione ([[DP113]])
*Darkrai ([[The Rise of Darkrai]] and [[DP104]])
*Shaymin ([[Giratina and the Sky Warrior]])

Uknown, yet debateable:
*Cresselia - If there's more than one Darkrai, why not Cresselia?
*Heatran - Only one has appeared so far, and even then, it was in the distant past.
*Jirachi - It came from space. We don't know if more are out there like Deoxys and Clefairy.
*The legendary birds - Unlike the beasts, we don't know if there were only 3 specifically created, although it is probable that they're unique.
*The legendary beasts- Although we know that Ho-Oh created 3 from the ashes of Pokémon, Suicune has appeared multiple times and sometimes in different regions. It has appeared in 3 episodes of the anime and one movie. The Entei in [[Spell of the Unown]] was only an illusion created by the Unown.

Unique:
*Mewtwo - It isn't actually a legendary in the anime, just a bad clone of one.
*Ho-Oh - Even though its counterpart, Lugia, is known to be able to have offspring, Ho-Oh seems to be a single Pokémon that travels around.
*Celebi - Although many appeared in [[Pokémon 4Ever]], they were the same Celebi, just from different time periods. The past and future came together in the present.
*Kyogre, Groudon, and Rayquaza - Kyogre and Groudon have appeared in the Team Magma and Team Aqua arc, and Kyogre has appeared in a movie or two. Rayquaza could be argued as having more than one in its species, but it is most likely the only one.
*Azelf, Uxie, and Mesprit - They were created by Arceus to keep Dialga and Palkia in balance.
*Dialga and Palkia - They are the keepers of time and space.
*Giratina - It is the guardian of the Reverse World, an distorted mirror of the Pokémon world. Although it could be argued that because mirror dimensions exist, and there would be Reverse Worlds for each of these mirror dimensions, that is extremely technical and most likely won't be mentioned.
*Arceus - Creator of the Pokémon universe. Not much more to say about that.

If that doesn't clear some things up, I don't know what will. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 22:49, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

:Actually, there is no way that Celebi would be the same Celebi from different time periods (as most of those Celebi [those supposedly from the future] would also not exist if that were the case, since it died.). As for Groudon and Kyogre, it was heavily implied in the end of Scuffle of Legends that they went to sleep again for another age-long rest (almost eternal), and it was also implied that the orbs are the only way they can awake, so it's more likely that Kyogre, at least, has multiples (since unless someone had bonded with the Blue Orb, then Kyogre should not awake, and thus not appear in Movie 9 if it's the same one.). Rayquaza was also implied to be captured by Team Rocket, and it won't make any sense that Rayquaza would be around the atmosphere if it can't get out (which the scene of it's capture implies that it can't escape.) Dialga and Palkia, did they even recognize Ash and co. when they appeared in the Team Galactic Two-Parter? If not, they're definitely not one of a kind, and since Giratina is also part of the same trio, that means it has to have multiples as well. For the Three Pixies, if there are more than one Dialga and Palkia, there are definitely going to be more than one Pixie Trio. So far, the only pokemon to be completely confirmed to be one of a kind without a doubt is Mewtwo. If Arceus somehow appears later on and doesn't even recognize Ash and Co, then it's safe to say that Arceus is also not one of a kind. As for Ho-Oh, let's wait until Movie 13 before we can say that it's one of a kind (If it doesn't recognize Ash, then it's safe to say it's not one of a kind.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 02:15, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

::Wow. I wasn't asking for a "Your wrong, stupid." type of response. We're trying to clear things up, not get into a fight. But since you want an argument for my point... For Celebi, the concept of time in the Pokémon universe, both games and movies, isn't immediate. In PMD2, you don't disappear right away. You still have like, a minute before you start to go away after correcting time. In Movie 12, it took forever for Ash and co. to nearly disappear, which they didn't. Celebi would have enough time to come back to heal itself. And who said it died anyways? It would also know when it would need to heal itself since it's a time travellor, and has basically the same powers that Dialga has, except they're not as massively powerful. There also isn't more than one Palkia, Dialga, or Arceus, as they're the only ones that are in existance. Dialga lives in a dimension outside of time, and Palkia controls all dimensions, except for Dialga's and Arceus'. It doesn't really matter if Palkia and Dialga recognize Ash and co. in the anime, because the anime =/= the movies. And from what I can tell, they don't do anything anyways. Cyrus captures them, and then the Lake trio free them and they go away. And there isn't more than one of each of the Lake trio, because there's... wait for it... ''three'' lakes for the ''three'' Lake guardians, and ''three'' {{tt|gifts|emotion, willpower, knowledge}} to humans. And so what if it appears that Team Rocket has Rayquaza? That was only in the intro to Movie 9 to show that there's evil in the Pokémon world. As for Groudon and Kyogre, again, anime =/= movies. Can't stress that enough. Those anime episodes were directly based off of R/S. There isn't any movie that's based specifically off of any part of a game. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 03:08, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

:::If Anime=/=Movies, then you shouldn't have even cited the movies in the first place (In other words, you shouldn't have cited Darkrai's appearances, as well as the other Legendary Pokémons appearances.). As for who said it had died, the mere fact that even the newly purified healing spring wasn't able to heal it implied that it had died. And for the record, I wasn't calling you stupid nor even implying that you were. And another thing, just because there are three lakes in Sinnoh that hold the pixie trio does not mean that there cannot be more than one Pixie trio. It was earlier implied that there was only one Mew left in existance, yet it was later made clear that there were actually two mews. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 03:42, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
::::Isn't there more than one Dialga, Palkia, and Giratina because of every Gen. IV game having them, but in different ways. HeartGold and SoulSilver has Arceus create one on the spot while DPPt has one already there. Doesn't that mean they are debatable? [[User:Turtwig A|Turt]][[wig]] [[Turtwig (Pokémon)|A]] ([[User talk:Turtwig A|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|contribs]]) 02:23, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
:::::I really don't think any of this matters actually. The only part that talks about unique legendaries, other than that one sentence, is the bottom where it lists the different in-battle music. I would say more, except I know Mchairybug will contradict everything I say. That's why I've stopped talking about it. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 05:09, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

===Definitively===
We can only say without a doubt that Mewtwo is unique in the anime. Arceus, the dragon trio, and the lake trio are presumed due to their link to the universe's creation. The rest, we can't say definitively, though we can more or less assume there's been only one Ho-Oh we've ever seen (Ash indicates it), and the weather trio's important roles also seem to point to there being only one of each.

Also, don't, ''don't'' think in the game sense in the anime. Also, the movies are canon, Ash-haters, find another thing he's not worthy of to rip on him for... like Gible or something. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 09:01, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

It's notable though that in "Mewtwo Strikes Back" Mew is refered in the single sense by many trainers(Such as saying "Mewtwo was cloned from Mew" instead of "Mewtwo was cloned from A Mew"). It could be that this Mew is ether the last one of the Mew kind, or just the Mew that's DNA was used to make Mewtwo. It's impossible to say though, since the movie never expands on this fact.--[[User:Dsman195276|Dsman195276]] 04:23, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

== Wobbuffett in the trivia section ==
Wobbuffett is not a legendary, but it along with Garchomp are the only non-legendary pokémon to be considered uber in competitive battling {{unsigned|Rocklee clone}}
:Unofficial tiers of competitive battling is irrelevant to this article. There's no need to mention Wobbuffet here. --[[User:ElectAbuzzzz|'''electAbuzz''']][[User talk:ElectAbuzzzz|'''z''']][[Special:Contributions/ElectAbuzzzz|'''z''']] 21:27, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

== Trivia; Other languages ==

So, I was looking on the French analog site (Poképédia) and noticed that there are only six legendaries that have had their name changed. (As far as I can tell, only a few of the non legendary pokémon retain the same english name.) They are: Zapdos (Électhor), Moltres (Sulfura), and Articuno(Artikodin); and Azelf(Créfadet), Mesprit(Créfollet), and Uxie(Créhelf).
Does this count as trivia?--[[User:Lamb|Lamb]]''([[User talk:Lamb|talk]])'' 00:34, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
:This is already mentioned in the article's trivia section.;)--[[User:Beligaronia|Beligaronia]] ([[User talk:Beligaronia|talk]]) 01:14, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
::Whoops. Didn't see that.--[[User:Lamb|Lamb]]''([[User talk:Lamb|talk]])'' 06:02, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

== In Game Re-battle ==

I know from elsewhere on this site that (in HGSS at least) if the legendary beasts are KO'd in battle, they can be 'revived' and battled again (for example, if you KO suicune, it'll keep reapearing in Burnt Tower until it's caught). I was just wondering which other legendaries can also be rebattled if they're KO'd? --[[User:Oatzy|Oatzy]] 23:56, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
:I believe it is any Pokémon that appears as a one-time capture, and you have to (re)battle the Elite Four in order to reset them. I know it works on Sudowoodo. On a similar note, I would like to know if its nature, IVs, etc. are reset when it reappears, particularly in regard to the roaming Pokémon. Giratina's stats were reset in Platinum. --[[User:JacobCrystal|JacobCrystal]] 19:33, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

== Champion Cynthia's team. ==

Did anyone else notice the groupings in http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Legendary_Pok%C3%A9mon#Other_Pok.C3.A9mon_of_myth ?

Out of the eleven bullet points on that list, Cynthia uses pokemon from five points, exactly one pokemon for each of those five points.
The groupings aren't exactly hewn in stone, though, so it's hardly trivia worthy. --[[User:PLA|PLA]] 09:26, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

== Reshiram and Zekrom ==

{{u|MAGNEDETH}} made the completely understandable decision to lock down this page to curb speculation, but Reshiram and Zekrom are confirmed to be legendaries by the Japanese site: http://www.pokemon-sp.jp/top.html [[User:Drapion|Drapion]] 20:48, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
:I'll be adding them later on. This whole damn page has been in cleanup for a couple months now, but I've been distracted. I'll finish editing it tomorrow and finally add them, under a Generation V header, tomorrow. Er. Today. I guess. It's early. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 10:19, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

== Zoroark? ==

Should Zoroark be in Other Pokémon of myth?? Or do we need to wait till the movie has actually premiered so we know exactly what he/she/it is or done?
:Wait till the movie comes out. We don't know much about Zoroark's role, yet. [[User:Takharii|<sc>Takharii</sc>]] '''~''' [[User talk:Takharii|<sc>Talk!</sc>]] 08:57, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
::Again, likely to be at least mentioned when I finish my cleanup of this damned thing. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 10:22, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
:::Is the fact that both Zorua and Zoroark event-''only'' sufficient to declare them Legendary? I'm not sure, but I believe that all pokémon available ''only'' through events are Legendary. I'm honestly not sure, however, if that is distinction enough for to be considered Legendary. [[User:Lostdrewid|Lostdrewid]] 07:29, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
::::It's a bit too soon to say that it is definitely a legendary. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 09:29, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
:::::I'm not convinced it is, though. Are they not, by definition, 幻のポケモン? They're almost even more illusory than Mew, Celebi and the like - not only are they event-only, but you need to attend said event ''prior to the launch of the games''. I ask this honestly, but... if that isn't the very picture of a Legendary Pokémon, what is? If what they are is not sufficient to be declared Legendary, then perhaps the article will need a tighter definition. Please do not misunderstand me, I'm not simply trying to be a nag [although I apologize, I realize I must sound like I am], I'm asking specifically because it seems to be that the status of these two is sort of at the crux of the definition of what it means to be Legendary and thus relevant, one way or another, to the article.
:::::Let me see if I can word my thoughts better. The article discusses the definition of Legendary at the introduction, before the TOC; the first section mentions common characteristics of being Legendary. What we have for these two matches the definition provided in the introduction; what we ''don't'' have for these two is a match, or lack of a match, with the common characteristics. Regardless of whether we are ultimately "right" about their Legendary status, if we say we don't have enough information to declare them Legendary, then maybe should the common characteristics [or some of them, whichever are truly defining] be considered as a part of the definition and moved to the introduction of the article?
:::::My goal here is ''not'' simply to see that Zorua and Zoroark be placed on the article. My goal is to see the article improve. I know, I know, it's a Featured Article and thus is considered awesome by the community - because, well, it is:) - but that doesn't mean that even an awesome article has no room to grow. In my original comment, I said plainly, I don't know whether being event only is sufficient to be called Legendary... but I ''shouldn't'' not know. Does that make sense?
:::::I'm sorry that I'm not good with words. I fear I'm going to be misunderstood here. Text only shows so little of meaning that misunderstandings are simple. I'm not trying to be critical, I'm not trying to say the article is bad. It not only isn't bad, I'll happily reiterate that it's awesome. But ultimately, if the legendary status of these two Pokémon is still in question, then the article's definition of legendary needs tightening. [[User:Lostdrewid|Lostdrewid]] 16:49, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
::::::TTE, let me also say that in no way are the arguments I've presented mean I am impatient to see the article updated. I completely understand that you're not a machine whose sole job in life is to update this site :) If this page is not updated until long after B&W comes out, I will not be upset. My sole desire is to see the article be as good as it can be. I feel that I do not have the proper words to contribute directly, even if the article was unlocked, so this is the only way that I feel I ''can'' contribute right now. [[User:Lostdrewid|Lostdrewid]] 17:04, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
:::::::I'd like to know where it's been confirmed that Zorua and Zoroark are ''only'' obtainable through the special events in BW? For all we know, Zorua and Zoroark will also be able to obtained in-game by normal means (wild encounter, NPC gift, etc.), it's just that the event ones are special for whatever reason.
:::::::Unless Spiky-eared Pichu is considered legendary now. :P [[User:Umeko|梅子]][[User talk:Umeko|❀]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|✿]] 18:40, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

Can anyone inform me why Zoroark/Zorua isn't counted a legendary? Thanks. [[User:Marlowe|Marlowe]] 18:45, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
:It's not at the end of the dex (Victini does not count) and it evolves from another Pokemon [[User:Ataro|Ataro]] 18:49, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

==plagiarism?==

I fear that content from this page has been copied onto this page. http://pokemonorg.wetpaint.com/page/Groups+of+Legendary+Pokemon
and maybe loads of other original bulbapedia content has been hoarded. can any one look into this?mods?admins? {{unsigned|AGGRON999}}
:Thanks, I'll take a look into it. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 11:12, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
::Even if the articles are original the images are taken directly from Bulbapedia and in fact link here when one clicks on the image.--[[User:Beligaronia|Beligaronia]] ([[User talk:Beligaronia|talk]]) 05:01, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
:::Yeah, the links go here too. I've spoken with the site owner and he's yet to get back to me. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 10:50, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
::::Thanks. :D {{unsigned|AGGRON999}}

== Huh? ==

Um, actually, Heatran is ''not'' the only legendary Pokémon with a variable gender. There's also Spiritomb. --[[User:Jade 2010|Green Jade]] 20:49, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
:Spiritomb isn't legendary.--[[User:MisterE13|Mister]][[User talk:MisterE13|'''E''']][[Special:Contributions/MisterE13|13]] 20:50, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Well then why is Spiritomb so hard to obtain? --[[User:Jade 2010|Green Jade]] 20:58, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
:Feebas isn't a legendary, but it's almost equally hard to obtain as Spiritomb... they just choose to make some Pokemon difficult to obtain, and some easy to obtain. Adds variety, you know? ▫▫'''[[User:Tina|ティナ]]'''[[User talk:Tina|♫]][[Special:Contributions/Tina|★]] 21:02, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Also, Spiritomb are able to breed. Just sayin' [[User:Bttsstewart|Bttsstewart]] 03:09, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

== SIX Legendaries changed names? ==
Uxie's name is the same in Japanese and English; the lack of Y is just localization and doesn't affect pronunciation (it's no more different - in fact, less so - than Lucario being "Rukario" in Japanese). However, the article says ''six'' legendary Pokemon changed names (the other five, of course, being Articuno, Zapdos, Moltres, Mesprit, and Azelf.) --[[User:HeroicJay|HeroicJay]] 09:00, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
:I agree, Uxie shouldn't count.--[[User:Pokelova|''Poké'']][[User talk:Pokelova|lova!]] 09:09, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
::Except Lucario's Japanese name is Lucario, it's just spelled as Rukario in katakana. Yuxie>Uxie isn't any less of a change than Dodorio>Dodrio, Donfan>Donphan, or Chicorita>Chikorita. If anything, Houou>Ho-oh and Crecelia>Cresselia should be counted as well. --[[User:Goldenpelt]] 01:59, 30 July 2010 (UTC)
:::I gotta agree there... '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 04:41, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
:::I agree about the Lucario comparison. Uxie's Katakana name is Yukushii, not Yuxie, so it's not the same thing. But it does seem a bit silly to say that they are different names if they are pronounced the same. When they design the official romanji names they aren't thinking about the English audience, so of course it makes sense to change the spelling if they think it helps people of that audience pronounce it correctly. It's still the same name. --[[User:CrimsonChin|CrimsonChin]] 17:57, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

== Victini ==

Shouldn't this little creature be added? Id add it, but alas, I am not allowed *cries*. Or are we awaiting more information on it? --[[User:S2daam|S2daam]] 11:47, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
:It's been added... I just improved some things. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 20:54, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

== Mewtwo and Mew's "Unique Battle Music" ==

I really don't think this point should be in the trivia section; isn't that same re-mixed Kanto music used for the birds and, in FR/LG, for the beasts as well? The music for the weather trio and the elemental Regis is more unique than that.[[User:Starscream|Starscream]] 16:38, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
:They're different remixes. Mewtwo's remix I ''think'' is used for Ho-Oh and Lugia in FRLG, in that event no one got anywhere. Mew's is a completely different remix. The legendary birds also have a different remix. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 05:31, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

== Uniqueness in the games ==

In the trivia section it says "In the games, there appears to only be one of every legendary Pokémon", however that's not entirely true. There's only one you can catch, but I've seen a Zapdos and a Heatran in the Battle Hall in Platinum. --[[User:CrimsonChin|CrimsonChin]] 17:42, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

== Edit request ==

Add {{template|-}} before every generation header. →'''[[User:Axxonn|ΑΧΧΟΝΝ]][[User talk:Axxonn|fi]][[Special:Contributions/Axxonn|re]]''' 22:26, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
:I'm not having any issues, and I'm using a standard monitor. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 07:38, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

== Capitalization ==

*A [http://www.pokemon.com/us/games/videogame-pokemon-ranger-guardian-signs/ recent page] on Pokémon.com mentions it as "Legendary Pokémon," not "legendary Pokémon" (with a capital L). I haven't looked yet, but do other things (games, manga, cards, sites, etc.) mention the term as such? [[User:Tc26/Anime Predictions|tc]][[User:Tc26|²₆]][[User talk:Tc26|tc]][[User:Tc26/Sandbox|26]] 11:31, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

== Takuto ==
I think it's important to include an exmaple Takuto has two legendary Pokemon under the "anime" section, and no ramifications were apparent as a result of him possessing legendary Pokemon. {{unsigned|Datonyp1}}

== Split? ==
With Gen V being released very soon, don't you think this entry might get a bit too big? Perhaps we should split it by Generation. Although it might be somewhat of a shame though... [[User:PDL|PDL]] 03:02, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

== "Deer" (and where in the world is Victini?) ==

I think "deer" is a poor group name for that trio, seeing as the closest animals they resemble are the gazelle, the wildebeest, and the oryx{{tt|*|Okay, I'm actually guessing on this last one}}, all bovids. "Musketeers", while not as descriptive, is a lot less inaccurate, as it groups them by their running theme, and doesn't alienate Keldeo. 
On a different subject, shouldn't Victini have a paragraph in somewhere? --[[User:Kaoz|Kaoz]] 01:56, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

== "Raijin" Trio ==
"Borutorosu, ''Torunerosu'', and Randorosu are a trio of Pokémon based on Japanese Raijin, gods of thunder and lightning"
Torunerosu is most likely based on Fuujin, god of wind {{unsigned|Vienna Waltz}}
:Instead of Raijin, which only applies to Boltros, why not Djinn Trio? They look the part.--[[User:Kaoz|Kaoz]] 19:00, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
::There's also Cloud Trio, seeing that's what they got for a lower half. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * [[User talk:ArcToraphim|the Arc Toraph]] 19:22, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
:::Trios are more often named after their overall appearance rather than a common feature. Speaking of which, I did some research and the djinns seem to take visual cues from {{wp|oni}} (Japanese ogre-demons), more notably their facial features and horns. So that'd leave us with the Djinn and Oni alternatives.--[[User:Kaoz|Kaoz]] 22:03, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
::::"More often" doesn't mean "we should consider that first." Obviously the weather trio, lunar duo, Lake Guardians, tower duo all take what they're known for and uses those names. If they aren't djinn or demons in general, why refer to them as such (considering they're based on gods and nothing Middle Eastern)? Birds are birds, beasts are beasts, and Musketeers are French (otherwise, they might have been the Righteous Quartet). Call them the Kami trio, and you're way more accurate than Djinn. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * [[User talk:ArcToraphim|the Arc Toraph]] 23:23, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
:::::Sounds fair, but how descriptive is the word Kami? Not saying Oni was a better suggestion, in fact it suffers from the same problem of neither being widespread in use nor part of the game lore. Names like birds and beasts are simple and descriptive at the same time, because everyone knows what a bird is. Even the golem has been integrated into the general culture pool. Terms like Kami and Oni are known among the Otaku subculture, but once you step out of it, few people will look at the name and think of them. I don't know if Djinn has overcome the limits of the gaming subculture, but if that weren't the case, I'd be all for a name that did, such as ogre or genie.--[[User:Kaoz|Kaoz]] 02:57, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
::::::Kami itself is a broad term that encompasses "gods" with religious connotations. It's general enough that it's likely to have extended itself beyond Otakuism, and if not, one punch into Google gives the Wiki article on Kami as the first result. They're not based on genies or demons. They're based on Raijin, Fuujin, and Inari...which are Shinto gods. Kami. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * [[User talk:ArcToraphim|the Arc Toraph]] 13:09, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
:If we were to go for a specific god, wouldn't it make more sense to use Fuujin, as they're all part Flying-type? --[[User:Goldenpelt|Gοlden]][[User talk:Goldenpelt|pelt]] 23:48, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
::It shouldn't be a specific god, only because they aren't all based around that god. The flying-type is because, yeah, they're gods and they fly. It's not specifically relative to Fuujin that they can. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * [[User talk:ArcToraphim|the Arc Toraph]] 13:49, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
So now there's a page entitled [[Raijin trio]]. Is that really what we'll be calling them from now on? I thought the argument for calling them the Kami trio was the most convincing. --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] 18:51, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
:This is why I liked the wiki when it was locked. We could come to a consensus on sensitive stuff like legendary trio names ''before'' someone made the articles, such as the case with the trio of {{p|Reshiram}}, {{p|Zekrom}}, and {{p|Kyurem}}. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 19:11, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
::'''They''', btw, could be the Tao Dragons. Yin, Yang, Wu? That's Taoism. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * [[User talk:ArcToraphim|the Arc Toraph]] 21:54, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
::Toa/Dao Dragons is a good idea. Yeah, I think Kami Trio (Or possibly a Nature Trio) is much better than singling out the first in the Pokedex as the name. [[User:Vik0z0z|vik0z0z]] 18:51, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

== About Energy Dragon Trio ==
I can't edit talk page there so I make here, I found something on the name
ReshiRAM, ZekROM, KyuREM (RAM-ROM-REM)[[User:Arceus Vs Dragon Trio|Arceus Vs Dragon Trio]] 11:45, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

Right...but what does 'RAM-ROM-REM' mean? Or is the "interesting" bit that all their names end it a consonent made of an R and M with a vowel in between> :-/ [[User:Bttsstewart|Bttsstewart]] 03:13, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
:RAM is random-access memory, REM is rapid eye movement and ROM is read-only memory?--[[User:Pokelova|''Poké'']][[User talk:Pokelova|lova!]] 03:35, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
::"REM, a keyword for an inline comment in some computer languages", so yeah [[User:Vienna Waltz|Vienna Waltz]] 12:30, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
:::Yeah, I think he's just pointing out the name similarities. --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] 13:02, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

== Stat Averages ==
Would it be reasonable if someone added statistical averages like how each of the typings have? Just so we can get a good idea on what the average Legendary seems to have for stats? If anybody sees this as a good idea then how do I add it into the article? [[User:Shiramu Kuromu|Shiramu Kuromu]] 21:10, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
:That would be a good idea. Add up each stat, divide by the number of legendaries and put them in {{template|BaseStatNoCat}}. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 21:22, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
::Thanks I'll add that when I get time to sometime tommorow. [[User:Shiramu Kuromu|Shiramu Kuromu]] 23:19, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
:::Just posting the averages I got figured out here until I have all of them calculated (Note: Includes Alt Formes and Phione).
:::HP: 92.89

:::Attack: 86.11

:::Defense: 85.28

:::Special Attack: 124.45

:::Special Defense: 90.65

:::Speed: 99.72

:::So far I'm predicting high average Special based stats. Once I get everything else calculated I'll get the averages posted on the article, though while you posted the template for it I have absolutely no clue how to set it up. x-x Edit: Looks like I'm right about the Special part. [[User:Shiramu Kuromu|Shiramu Kuromu]] 19:57, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Nevermind about how to use them, used the Dragon Type page as a reference for these. Is it working correctly? Do I need to round them to whole numbers (The fully evolved averages for types displayed them like this though)?
===Statistical averages{{tt|*|Considering Alternate Formes as seperate Pokémon}}===
{{BaseStatNoCat|
HP=92.89 |
Attack=86.11 |
Defense=85.28 |
SpAtk=124.45 |
SpDef=90.65 |
Speed=99.72 }}
[[User:Shiramu Kuromu|Shiramu Kuromu]] 20:29, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
:Looking good. Feel free to incorporate that into the page when you're ready. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 21:12, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
::Can you get the bars to align to the right so that they are affecting in length by the numbers to the left of them? [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 00:27, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't know how to set it up like that. Though I do have to redo the totals since Phione is know confirmed not to be a legendary, so I'll figure out how to do that when I get he chance. [[User:Shiramu Kuromu|Shiramu Kuromu]] 17:11, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
::::I see, maybe you could move the bars all the way to the right? [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 20:16, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Featured Article ==

The article "Legendary Pokémon" has been a featured article for a while now. Doesn't anyone think it should give another article a chance? [[User:Pokedex493|Pokedex493]] 18:28, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
:I agree, there are plenty other articles out there? [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 19:26, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
::Yeah. Does anybody else agree? [[User:Pokedex493|Pokedex493]] 19:37, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Feel free to [[BP:FAC|nominated one]]. There is no limit to how many featured articles Bulbapedia can have. As long as this one is still high quality, it will stay featured and we will add more to the list. (Which reminds me, I need to close the current nominations.) —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 09:33, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

== Mythical Pokémon ==
With the commercials for Victini airing now, as well as the Celebi Distribution's page on the HeartGold and SoulSilver website, would it be a good guess to assume that TPCi considers Mythical Pokémon to be the translated term of "Illusory Pokémon"?--[[User:Purimpopoie|Purimpopoie]] 00:34, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
:Apparently, Mythical Pokémon is now used to refer to any legendary. [http://pokebeach.com/#legendary-pokemon-renamed-to-mythical-pokemon See here. I think a page moving might be in order.] - ''unsigned comment from [[User:Missingno. Master|Missingno. Master]] ([[User talk:Missingno. Master|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Missingno._Master|contribs]])'' 21:27, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
::Makes sense since in the anime Dratini was specifically stated to be legendary so they gotta rename legendaries... xD [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 22:04, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
:::Remember the Japanese games do actually use several different terms for 'legendary Pokémon'. It looks like the English translations are finally going to recognise that and do the same. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] [[User talk:Werdnae|(talk)]] 22:10, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
::::I agree on the move. If this is going to be standard, then we should change to reflect this. --[[User:Jonouchi|Jonouchi]] 23:14, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
:::::At most I think there should be a redirect that leads here... >.> [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 23:32, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
::Should be split. Reshizek are still legendary. The legendary Pokémon template should be divided, so it's one template, but maybe it should look like this:
|Legendary: Reshiram - Zekrom
Unova|
|Mythical: Victini - Other Stuff

[[User:TorchicBlaziken|TorchicBlaziken]] ([[User_talk:TorchicBlaziken|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/TorchicBlaziken|edits]]) 00:46, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
::::I... guess? Just as long as Victini and the others are not even ''once'' called legendary officially... [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 03:22, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
:I believe Mythical Pokémon is now the official translation for '''幻のポケモン''', as Celebi, Victini, Arceus and many others are all official called 幻のポケモン by the official Japanese website, and Reshiram and Zekrom and many others are called 伝説のポケモン. Now Mythical Pokémon and Legendary Pokémon is different.--[[User:Swampert|Swampert]] 13:46, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
::Well... seeing as how Bulbapedia ''is'' '''for''' fluff and unconfirmed info, I guess we might as well do this? By for I mean when told that something is fluff and unconfirmed people get called an idiot for not believing it to be true regardless of there being no proof of it whatsoever. [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 22:54, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Victini was called a ''Mythical Pokémon'', while Raikou, Entei, Suicune, Reshiram and Zekrom are still being called ''Legendary Pokémon''. Probably, they finally split the classification, like in Japanese: '''Legendary Pokémon''' (伝説のポケモン ''densetsu no Pokémon'') and '''Mythical Pokémon''' (幻のポケモン ''maboroshi no Pokémon''). - [[User:Taylor|Taylor]] 23:38, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
::I feel at this point in time it is time to restate what Dratini was called, 伝説のポケモン, Legendary Pokémon. [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 23:42, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

I for one vote that event Pokémon should be moved to Mythical Pokémon due to TCPi using a new term for the Pokémon that is given out by event.Anyone agree on this ? [[User Talk:LucarioWolf|'''Lucario''']][[User:LucarioWolf|'''Wolf''']] 23:50, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

It seems that's it. Event Legendaries were called ''maboroshi'' in Japanese and now they got their own classification in English... because Celebi and Arceus are being called ''Mythical'', too. - [[User:Taylor|Taylor]] 23:52, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
:Ah so then are we moving Dratini to Legendary Pokemon status? Since that is what it is called? [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 00:01, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
::Once, in the anime, ages ago. I'm talking about the recent, official use. - [[User:Taylor|Taylor]] 00:56, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
:::More like twice if you count Dragonite, but when it was called that does not change the fact it was called that. Also, how is the anime unofficial? [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 01:33, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
::::Was the Dratini line ever actually called "legendary" or such using the Japanese terms? [[User:Frugali|Frugali]] 01:37, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
:::::Well... not Dragonair specifically... [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 01:50, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
Okay this is driving me crazy, do we have any real confirmation that the new term is Mythical Pokemon or that the two will be used seperately? Why can't we wait 'till the games come out and if all of the 'legendaries' are called Mythical Pokémon, then <s>I'm going to have to kill someone</s> we can move it. If only some of them are called Mythical and some of them are Legendary, then we will have to rethink our classification of Legendary and Mythical Pokémon (what makes one legendary and the other mythical. Hopefully, they'll all stay as legendaries and we can move on with our lives. :P --[[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']]''' 02:09, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
:Considering the current events... Raikou, Entei, Suicune, Reshiram and Zekrom '''were deemed Legendary'''; Victini, Celebi and Arceus '''were deemed Mythical'''. Pretty simple to me: normal gameplay ones are Legendaries, event-exclusive ones are Mythical. Just like Japanese ''densetsu'' and ''maboroshi''. - [[User:Taylor|Taylor]] 02:32, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
::''By that logic'', Dratini and Dragonite '''were deemed Legendary''', just saying. [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 10:38, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
:::Okay, like it or not Dratini and Dragonite are not legendary. Dragonite is {{pkmn2|Pseudo-legendary}} but that's as close as they get. On the other note, I'd say wait 'till the games come out in a week or two before making any bold descisions. --[[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']]''' 01:22, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
::::Oh hey I agree, thank you for understanding my point, Dratini and Dragonite are not legendary just because they were called that, exactly why just because someone calls a couple pokemon mythical instead of legendary does not automatically make them not legendary but a new subtype of legendary called mythical. [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 02:51, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

=== Victini, Celebi, and Arceus ===
*I've been to the mall tour and in the "Introduction to Unova" that they show before entering the "Video Game Experience" area, the Narrator says, "Wow! It's ''the Mythical Pokémon Victini''! They say it has the power to bring victory." as Victini appears on the screen. And on the 13th page of the Tour Book given out during the mall tour about the distribution of the [[Liberty Pass]], it identifies Victini as ''the Mythical Pokémon Victini'' twice.

*Celebi is referred to as ''the Mythical Pokémon Celebi'' on [http://www.pokemon.com/us/ Pokémon.com], linking to a [http://www.pokemongoldsilver.com/us/#/news/celebi/ page] about Celebi's distribution at the mall tours and at Game Stop. On that page it refers to Celebi as ''the Mythical Celebi''. At the bottom of the same page, upon click the '6', it refers to the Celebi that the player receives from the deliveryman after it is distributed, as ''the Mythical Pokémon'', rather than just 'Celebi'.

*In an [http://www.pokemon.com/us/news/anim_movie12_dvd-2011-02-04/ announcement] about [[M12|Arceus and the Jewel of Life]] going on DVD, it refers to Arceus as ''the Mythical Pokémon Arceus''.

Mythical Pokémon are most likely Pokémon that can only legitimately be obtained through distributions since this is true for Victini, Celebi, and Arceus, alike.

If my assumption turns out to be correct, all of the following Pokémon are those who I believe will likely be considered Mythical Pokémon:

*{{p|Mew}}
*{{p|Celebi}}
*{{p|Jirachi}}
*{{p|Deoxys}}
*{{p|Phione}} -- The fact that it can only be legitimately obtained by breeding a Ditto and a Manaphy, which the latter of can only legitimately be obtained through distributions, is enough for me to believe that Phione would be a Mythical Pokémon, in this case.
*{{p|Manaphy}}
*{{p|Darkrai}}
*{{p|Shaymin}}
*{{p|Arceus}}
*{{p|Victini}}
*{{p|Zorua}} -- Requires a fateful encounter Pokémon. Seems like good enough a reason to me.
*{{p|Zoroark}} -- Evolved form of an assumed-to-be Mythical Pokémon and requires fateful encounter Pokémon. Again, seems like good enough a reason.
*{{p|Keldeo}} -- Assumed to be available in the future via a distribution. Similar to Shaymin, Darkrai, and Arceus being kept secret at first.
*{{p|Meloetta}} -- Assumed to be available in the future via a distribution. Similar to Shaymin, Darkrai, and Arceus being kept secret at first.
*{{p|Genesect}} -- Assumed to be available in the future via a distribution. Similar to Shaymin, Darkrai, and Arceus being kept secret at first.

-- [[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']]''' 01:12, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
:I would like to disagree in a single point: I think Mythical Pokémon are ''Legendary'' Pokémon that can't be legitimately obtained in normal gameplay. So I disagree on Phione, Zorua and Zoroark, but definitely agree on the rest. - [[User:Taylor|Taylor]] 01:33, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
::What about Victini? has Victini ever been officially called Legendary anywhere? --[[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']]''' 02:02, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
I would like to chime in here, and state that {{p|Dratini}}'s Red, Blue, Yellow, and LeafGreen Pokedex entries state that it is considered a "mythical Pokémon". '''[[User:Blake|Blake]]''' [[User talk:Blake#top|Talk]]·[[Special:Contributions/Blake|Edits]] 21:23, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
:Um, the whole Dratini ordeal was a joke. It's by no means Legendary. It hasn't had a movie. (Yes I know this is an arguable point) It's part of an evolutionary stage. There's way more than just one of them. It probably won't be considered Mythical since it is not Legendary, and it isn't event-exclusive. --[[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']]''' 21:34, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
::So, now that the block is over. What are we gonna do with the whole mythical Pokémon thing? --[[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']]''' 21:47, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

== "Unique" Legendaries in the Anime. ==

All right, I tolerated it when it was present, but after the addition of creatures that obviously weren't considered unique in the Anime (e.g., the Beast Trio from Johto), I think there needs to be a purging in regards to what's counted as unique and what's not.

First off, in regards to uniques, the only one explicitly confirmed to be Unique is Mewtwo. Most of the others are either unconfirmed or explicitly shown to be non-unique and thus should not be listed as such. Also, don't claim that they had some sort of important role in creating something (like creation of the Universe, for example) as a reason to state that they should be unique, because I will remind everyone that the Anime doesn't even care whether the creatures had an important role in creation. For example, Kyogre and Rayquaza was the one who created the Seas as well as the ruler of the skies/mitigator between Groudon and Kyogre's fight, respectively. However, that never stopped them from gaining multiple species, as evidenced with Kyogre reappearing in Movie 9 even though by the time of the movie, the Kyogre they encountered had already went back into slumber at the bottom of the basin, and if Kyogre has multiples, there's a fine bet that Groudon would have multiples as well. Rayquaza has also been shown to reappear three times, with one actually being captured by Team Rocket. Even if all three were the same entity, the mere fact that Kyogre and Groudon (explicitly shown and by proxy, respectively) had multiples meant that Rayquaza would have multiples as well. I mean, no sense in having one have multiples while others in the same trio not have the same multiples, either. Because of this, we can't use the whole "but they helped create Isshu/the Universe" belief as the reason why they are unique. Unless they have explicitly shown that they are unique, they can not be labelled as such, especially not under assumptions. If you have any evidence that suggests that the Legendaries encountered in the Anime are the same (e.g., the legendary in question actually recognizing Ash and co. from a previous encounter), then please add it in with the proper citation. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 20:27, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

== Zekrom and Reshiram: "Constant Conflict?" No. ==

Their paragraph states that the two are in constant conflict with one another. This is not true--not only are they sealed away in Stones for many years prior to Black and White, but in Opelucid City, Iris also states that the two "get along so well." I've changed it to be more accurate. [[User:Grei|Grei]] 06:27, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

== Heatran and Regigigas ==

Why are these two listed in the wrong order? [[User:Shiramu Kuromu|Shiramu Kuromu]] 22:01, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

== Mew under unique ==

I've added Mew to the list with Mewtwo, Arceus etc because as we've only seen one Mew and it is the original Pokemon. {{unsigned|Genemaxwell4}}

Movies 1 & 8 are separate Mew--[[User:SandmanDP|SandmanDP]] 02:46, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Source? Where does it say this? Because from what I saw there was no distinction made. That is another assumption. Unless a source says otherwise the two are one in the same ergo Mew is unique. [[User:Genemaxwell4|Genemaxwell4]] 05:01, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
: Come to think of it... both movies only show 1 Mew. However the History of the Pokemon world states Mew may have been plentiful at one time. However since there has been no appearance of 2 Mews at one time, I would say that Mew is indeed unique. [[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen Fennec]] 05:09, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
::The Mew from movie 8 was shown to be bound to stay near the Tree of Beginning while the one in the first movie was shown to travel.--[[User:MisterE13|Mister]][[User talk:MisterE13|'''E''']][[Special:Contributions/MisterE13|13]] 05:42, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Is it stated that it's permantly bound to the Tree? In the movie it shows Mew outside of the tree several times. Who's to say that Mew can't come and go? In the movie Mew's only there because the tree is threatened. It's more likely that Mew is ONE pokemon, as stated by many other sources, and goes where it's needed. [[User:Genemaxwell4|Genemaxwell4]] 09:28, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

== Caption ==

The art at the top of the page is captioned, "An artist's interpretation of Entei, a legendary Pokémon in the anime.". Shouldn't there be a comma after "Pokémon"? (Otherwise, it sounds like Entei is only legendary in the anime.) [[User:Tk3141|Tk3141]] 13:16, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
:Fixed it. [[User:ZMT123|ZMT123]] 18:20, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

== Capitalization of the word "Ability". ==

I've seen a few areas where the word "Ability" has been capitalized, like in the sentence below:

"Unlike previous event legendary Pokémon with its straight-100 base stats, however, Shaymin has the '''Ability''' to change forms, between Land Forme and Sky Forme."

Shouldn't the word "Ability" be only capitalized when referring to ''actual'' [[Ability|Pokémon Abilities]], such as {{a|Blaze}}, {{a|Air Lock}}, or {{a|Torrent}}? In the above example, {{p|Shaymin}} doesn't explicitly possess a Pokémon Ability that permits it to change Forme; it can only heal status ailments upon being switched out ({{a|Natural Cure}}) or promote added effects ({{a|Serene Grace}}). The word "ability" seems to be used in a more 'general' sense, being synonymous with words like "capability", "talent", or "skill", rather than implying an actual Pokémon Ability. [[User:Fenyx4|Fenyx4]] 16:48, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

== Number of Legendaries ==

For Gen IV, 3+3+2+2+1+1+1+1 does not equal 13, but it equals 14. {{unsigned|Harrichan}}
:Phione's legendary status is disputed. So I think someone did that to note it.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 06:03, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

== Names ==

In the Trivia, at the part with the Junichi Masuda interview, we might need to add something. I'm pretty sure the Musketeer quartet have different names outside Japan, don't they? --[[User:Pringles|'''P'''r]][[User talk:Pringles|'''i'''ngles]] 23:46, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

== Mythical Pokémon again ==

The Pokémon Power Bracket descriptions have pretty much told us which Pokémon are Legendary and which are Mythical. I think we should split this page, and mention on this page that the term used to incorporate Mythical Pokémon as well before they became their own category in Generation V. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 06:13, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
:I don't think that's a clear indication that they're not legendary by being mythic. [[User:ZMT123|ZMT123]] ([[User talk:ZMT123|talk]]) 03:05, 29 July 2012 (UTC)
::The term is used in place of legendary, and I've seen them grouped as "Legendary Pokémon and Mythical Pokémon", indicating that mythical Pokémon are not legendary Pokémon. The [http://www.pokemonconquest.com/en-us/outline/densetsu Conquest website] does this, but I don't really want to put too much trust into it since it has all the game characters quoted saying "legendary Pokémon" in the section titled "Mythical Pokémon", and referring to a Zekrom, which is not a mythical Pokémon.
::Also, for anyone who's wondering, "mythical Pokémon" is lowercase like "legendary Pokémon". While pretty much everything else capitalizes them, the in-game dialogue doesn't (for in-game usage of "mythical Pokémon", see post-defeat quote of the first Grunt in Liberty Garden). --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 13:07, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
:::Not sure how this factors into the discussion, but Nintendo has recently uploaded [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXJJM7bWcjg a commercial] for ''[[Black 2 and White 2]]'' that utilizes the term "Mythical Pokémon" over "Legendary Pokémon" when describing [[Genesect]] near the end. As for my own two cents, I haven't seen "Mythical Pokémon" used much in media except in reference to a scant few Unova-native Legendary Pokémon...I'm not sure whether the term "Mythical Pokémon" is intended to be recognized as a sub-category of Legendary Pokémon, or if the term will supplant "Legendary Pokémon" outright. I personally haven't seen any classification displayed that distinguishes/divides "Legendary Pokémon" from "Mythical Pokémon", only that "mythical" has been preferred/used over "legendary" in recent Pokémon promotions. [[User:Fenyx4|Fenyx4]] ([[User talk:Fenyx4|talk]]) 16:40, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
:::Adding to my previous post, it seems that the official YouTube channels for Nintendo and Pokémon (North America) have uploaded 3 similar commercials, all advertising ''Black 2/White 2'' (all of which advertise Genesect as a 'mythical Pokémon'). [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfJK8zwan30 This video] from the Pokémon side of things is specifically titled "September '''Legendaries''' Trailer" (to distinguish it from the other 2 uploads), yet Genesect is ''still'' referred to as a "Mythical Pokémon" at the end of the video. Seeing as the "Legendaries" term is still in use, I'm still inclined to believe that "Mythical Pokémon" is more of a sub-category for "Legendary Pokémon", although I'll wait to see other users' takes on the matter. [[User:Fenyx4|Fenyx4]] ([[User talk:Fenyx4|talk]]) 16:59, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
::::[http://youtu.be/VO0xu_Djfco?t=25s "Like all Mythical Pokémon, you can't encounter Keldeo during normal gameplay."] It seems that mythical Pokémon are legendary Pokémon that can only be obtained via events. [[User:Mikuri|Mikuri]] ([[User talk:Mikuri|talk]]) 17:32, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

== Mythic vs Mirage Pokemon ==

Where is the phrase Mirage Pokemon used? Also, Pokemon.com has referred to Keldeo and Genesect as Mythic Legendaries, so perhaps Mythic == Event? [[User:RB Golbat|RB Golbat]] ([[User talk:RB Golbat|talk]]) 02:52, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

==Statistical Averages==
Shouldn't we put two sets of averages up, one without Phione, and one with Phione, or at least put an * with the number at the bottom, or something? Some consider Phione a legendary, and I have seen sources list it as such. Also, No source proves, without a doubt, one way or the other, so I say we put both for now.--[[User:Chris Broach|Chris Broach]] ([[User talk:Chris Broach|talk]]) 03:04, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
:It's fine. I really don't think anybody will care whether or not it includes Phione. --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 03:13, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

== Mythical Pokémon. ==

The term has been pretty often, and it refers to event Pokémon it seems. Heck, Champions Tournament has this: ''"You may not have duplicate Pokémon or duplicate held items. The item Soul Dew and the move Sky Drop are banned. Legendary or mythical Pokémon may not participate, either. For these battles, all Pokémon will be set to Level 50."'' - and I am sure it refers to more than Sinnoh legendaries (Keldeo and Genesect, at least on Nintendo's YouTube channel, so idk actually D:). [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] ([[User talk:Marked +-+-+|talk]]) 18:16, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
:I'm pretty sure Mythical Pokemon are the same as Event-Only Pokemon (Mew, Celebi, Jirachi, Deoxys, Phione, Manaphy, Darkrai, Shaymin, Arceus, Victini, Keldeo, Meloetta, Genesect) Perhaps a new article is made about that? Or we just change the [[Event Pokémon]] to Mythic Pokemon? [[User:RB Golbat|RB Golbat]] ([[User talk:RB Golbat|talk]]) 16:54, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

== Hovertext ==

The hovertext in the trivia I added isn't working for some reason... Or is it just me? [[User:TorchicBlaziken|TorchicBlaziken]] ([[User_talk:TorchicBlaziken|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/TorchicBlaziken|edits]]) 16:19, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
:" breaks {{template|tt}}. Either use <code>&quot;</code>, <code>'</code>, or <code><nowiki><nowiki></nowiki></nowiki></code>. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 16:38, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

== Are '''any''' Pokémon in the anime truly unique? ==

Because it has been confirmed that more than one Mewtwo (a Pokémon that was long thought to have been unique) exists in the anime, I now think it's speculative to say that any Pokémon is actually unique. After all, unless it is explicitly stated and proven that only one kind of a particular Pokémon exists, how do we know for sure whether or not Arceus, Reshiram, Zekrom, and other legendaries are truly the only ones of their kind? And when we assume these Pokémon are unique, the show's writers may introduce another individual of the Pokémon we thought was special in this regard. This is particularly true in Mewtwo's case, where we all thought it was a unique Pokémon for a long time prior to the sixteenth film. Wrap it all up, I feel this is speculation and we shouldn't assume what Pokémon are unique and which ones aren't. Anyone else agree? [[User:Uncle Edit|He's here! The one and only...Uncle Edit!]] ([[User talk:Uncle Edit|talk]]) 21:35, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
:Absolutely. If people really think it's necessary, we ''could'' say that for certain species (Arceus, etc), only one individual has ever been seen, but I think it's better to leave it out entirely and just note in individual entries for things like Mewtwo or Lugia that multiple individuals exist. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 14:41, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

== Contradiction pages ==

The Pokémon Mansion page states: 'Amongst the rubble and wreckage is information that the scientists who once worked there obtained a Mew and impregnated it with the genetically altered Mewtwo, who destroyed the Mansion in its escape.' The Legendary Pokémon page states: 'In the games, Mewtwo is revealed to have been cloned from Mew in the Pokémon Mansion journals. Mewtwo was too powerful, however, and it escapes from the Pokémon Mansion, destroying it in the process. Mewtwo then makes its home in Cerulean Cave, where all kinds of powerful Pokémon live.' This contradicts, go fix it my fellow Bulbapedia editers! [[User:Nickvang|Nickvang]] ([[User talk:Nickvang|talk]]) 18:44, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
:What are you talking about? At least specify what the contradiction is. Is it the cloning and impregnation thing? Because that's how '''actual''' cloning is performed. [[User:Ataro|Ataro]] ([[User talk:Ataro|talk]]) 20:29, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
::Yes, it's that thing. And as far as I know, cloning is performed by taking a stem cell of a being, and artificially grow it into a being. If what you said is true, then all normal kinds of reproduction would be cloning. [[User:Nickvang|Nickvang]] ([[User talk:Nickvang|talk]]) 16:34, 8 September 2013 (UTC)
:::Cloning is frequently performed by "growing it into a being", as you call it, within a surrogate mother animal's womb, rather than an artificial womb. For example, see {{wp|Dolly (sheep)|Dolly the sheep}}. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 16:43, 8 September 2013 (UTC)
::::I think I start to understand you, yet, is it sure Mewtwo is a clone just because it is altered/created by scientists. Couldnd't Mewtwo just be created by some variation of Gene therapy? [[User:Nickvang|Nickvang]] ([[User talk:Nickvang|talk]]) 16:50, 8 September 2013 (UTC)
:::::Okay, now I see what you're saying. I think it's heavily implied that game-Mewtwo is a clone, but you're right that it's not explicitly stated. Thus, I've changed the article to say it was "genetically modified" from Mew, which is the exact wording used in its Pokédex entries. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 18:00, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

== Gen-II hint ==

Because the location of a legendary pokemon changes when the player moves between routes and towns, and because it moves along usually sequentially, head towards the sign (trainer tips) at the top of Route 36, directly above this is route 37. Change between these two routes to cause the pokemon to move. They can be made to come to you using this method. [[User:Charlieb000|Charlieb000]] ([[User talk:Charlieb000|talk]]) 08:34, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
:Bulbapedia is an encyclopedia, not a strategy guide. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 15:26, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
::@Charlieb000: You could try adding this to one of the [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Appendix:Gold_and_Silver_walkthrough Gold, Silver], and/or [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Appendix:Crystal_walkthrough Crystal] walkthroughs. --[[User:NOBODY|NOBODY]] ([[User talk:NOBODY|talk]]) 14:48, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

== Typo ==

Under the Lake Trio's section, the episode title "Pruning a Passel of Pals" is missing an exclamation mark. Can I get an admin to fix this please? '''—★[[User:Takharii|たかはりい]]''''''[[User talk:Takharii|talk]]''' 09:59, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

== Three More Pokémon? ==

While browsing around a forum, I came across [http://pokejungle.net/2013/10/31/rumour-legends-leaked-by-hacking/ this link] showing pictures of the three presumed legendary Pokémon that have not yet been released. Is this enough (I know the page says "rumor" on it, but think that these would be released in the next games most likely) to allow us to create pages on them? I looked for {{redlink|Hoopa (Pokémon)}} to see that it still does not exist. We don't have screenshots of their Dex entries, unfortunately, but Serebii did have [https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/1377346_495855790511942_864380182_n.jpg these] up at one point, albeit briefly. I think we can safely create pages on the three - even though Nintendo hasn't announced them - and put what unconfirmed information we do have, but keep the pages locked down so they cannot be freely edited. The intro to the page would say an unconfirmed Pokémon noting we are only collecting what's been posted elsewhere so far and noting that it's speculation. Thoughts?

It also includes something on Mega Latios and Mega Latias, but we do not know if this is something they decided to cut from the game (they look identical). I'm not comfortable adding those to the related pages yet. [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 17:57, 2 November 2013 (UTC)
:There's already a discussion about this going on {{DL|Bulbapedia talk:Editor's Hub|Regarding Volcanion, Hoopa and Diancie|here}}. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 18:07, 2 November 2013 (UTC)
::Duly noted, I have commented. [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 18:34, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

== Why is Zygarde apart of the "Morality" Duo? ==

It clearly represents order between them. It looks like a Z, and it's name also begins with one (Xerneas, Yveltal, Zygarde). Also, it even shares the same battle them with them.{{unsigned|Maxdoss}}
:I imagine it's because it's not confirmed to be part of the trio, even though it's blatantly obvious.--[[User:BigBadBatter|BigBadBatter]] ([[User talk:BigBadBatter|talk]]) 23:36, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
::So Gen IV they refused to accept Giratina as part of the Trio. Gen V they accepted Kyurem. And now, in Gen VI, they aren't accepting Zygarde. Can somebody make up their mind? --[[User:Shadowater|Shadowater]] ([[User talk:Shadowater|talk]]) 00:07, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

::Xerneas, Yveltal and Zygarde are not part of the trio yet so you have to wait in the future. [[User:Cinday123|Cinday123]] ''([[User talk:Cinday123|Talk]])'' 00:13, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

wha... not confi... of course freakin' bulbapedia.. [[User:Tditdatdwt|Tditdatdwt]] ([[User talk:Tditdatdwt|talk]]) 20:59, 2 May 2014 (UTC)
:There isn't any direct evidence- in game or in the anime (or the manga even)- to support Zygarde being part of a trio. Until there is evidence that point to it being part of the trio, then we'll move it. It's basically the same case with Giratina and Kyurem befor eit.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 03:23, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

== The Legendary Pokemon of the Kalos Region, 716-718 ==

it obvious those three Pokemon are relative to even though it doesn't explicitly stated within the story. Pokemon Wiki was able deduce that the 3 are related to each other, calling them the Yggdrasil trio by fans. Zygarde's Pokedex entries and ability gives a clear hint they its related to the duo. Xerneas, Yveltal, and Zygarde, all three have a role in the ecosystem. Xerneas involves life and creating forests. Yveltal brings destruction, meaning the end of a life of an living being. While Zygarde role in the echo system is balance, determine how long a living being is to live and eventually die. These pokemon roles involves the environment and gender chromosomes(Mostly for Xerneas and Yveltal). I Strongly believe that Zygarde should be add to the duo, making a trio. After this is simialr to the Kyurem and Giratina issue. I leave this topic out for anyone to dicuss this.--[[User:Jacob9594|Jacob Kogan]] ([[User talk:Jacob9594|talk]]) 00:19, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

:Xerneas and Yveltal are part of the duo for now until Zygarde gets a version. [[User:Cinday123|Cinday123]] ''([[User talk:Cinday123|Talk]])'' 00:25, 1 January 2014 (UTC)
::Unless Zygarde is mentioned to be related to Xerneas and Yveltal in the games (and to an extent, the anime), we will not be adding itwith Xerneas and Yveltal.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 03:08, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

== National Pokédex and Phione ==

In Generation VI, is Phione needed to complete the National Pokédex since its legendary status is disputed. --[[User:Cinday123|Cinday123]] ''([[User talk:Cinday123|Talk]])'' 03:18, 20 January 2014 (UTC)
:All Pokémon except event Pokémon are needed to complete the national dex.[[User:Yamitora1|Yamitora1]] ([[User talk:Yamitora1|talk]]) 06:33, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

::So this includes Phione which is needed to complete the National Pokémon. --[[User:Cinday123|Cinday123]] ''([[User talk:Cinday123|Talk]])'' 06:36, 15 February 2014 (UTC)
:::Yes that is correct [[User:Yamitora1|Yamitora1]] ([[User talk:Yamitora1|talk]]) 06:45, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

== Origins ==

I don't think origins should be included, Xerneas, Yveltal and Zygarde's origins can be easily be seen in their own pages. --[[User:Cinday123|Cinday123]] ''([[User talk:Cinday123|Talk]])'' 00:04, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
:I was wondering if those should be there as well. I did however add to the Yveltal section when I first saw that added, maybe I should have removed instead of adding. Oh well, the info on this page will continue evolving and changing, especially as the generation goes on and we're exposed to more of these new legendaries and their mythos. [[User:Yamitora1|Yamitora1]] ([[User talk:Yamitora1|talk]]) 00:45, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

== Entei and Groudon ==

The trivia section states that Ho-Oh is the only Legendary Pokémon from Generation II not to appear in a movie. It also states that the Groudon from [[M06]] doesn't count because it's a fake one. But doesn't that mean that Entei from [[M03]] shouldn't count either? It is just an illusion after all... [[User:ShadowLugiaEx|ShadowLugiaEx]] ([[User talk:ShadowLugiaEx|talk]]) 15:31, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
:Entei also appeared in the Zoroark movie, along with the other two Legendary beasts. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 15:53, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

== Definition ==

"No Legendary Pokémon is known to evolve."

"Diancie is born from a Carbink that undergoes a mutation."

Should we change/rework the definition of Legendary Pokémon? I mean, its one thing to be a genetic modified clone of a legendary Pokémon, its another to mutate/evolve into one. [[User:Yamitora1|Yamitora1]] ([[User talk:Yamitora1|talk]]) 00:28, 18 May 2014 (UTC)
:There's no reason to change the definition. Carbink doesn't ''evolve'' into Diancie, and most likely cannot even turn into Diancie in-game in any way.--'''[[User:Dennou Zenshi|電禅]][[User talk:Dennou Zenshi|Den Zen]]''' 00:49, 18 May 2014 (UTC)
::Not to mention that ''Diancie'' definitely doesn't evolve into anything.--'''[[User:Dennou Zenshi|電禅]][[User talk:Dennou Zenshi|Den Zen]]''' 00:51, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

== Should Arcanine, Lucario, Zoroark and Rotom be included in Unown's bullet point in the trivia? ==

Arcanine has the species name "Legendary Pokémon" and its Pokédex entries refer to it as such. Rotom has legendary encounter music playing when it is battled in the Old Chateau and is even explicitly referred to as a Legendary in Pokémon adventures. Even though neither one are legendaries in the context of Game Canon, I feel like they should be included in the trivia section in the bullet point about Unown being a legendary in the Third Movie. Also, Lucario and Zoroark should also be mentioned since they were both able to stand toe-to-toe with legendaries in their respective movies and were both thought to be as such by some fans before the games and movies themselves confirmed otherwise. They share that trait with Unown.{{unsigned|BlackButterfree}}
: Why not add this to the article yourself? [[User:Blueapple128|Blueapple128]] ([[User talk:Blueapple128|talk]]) 15:00, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

::Everytime I add something to a page, even if its just fixing grammar mistakes, it gets erased, so I'm guessing only staff members can do so. --[[User:BlackButterfree|BlackButterfree]] ([[User talk:BlackButterfree|talk]]) 20:44, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

:::There shouldn't be anything preventing you from making edits; I'm not a staff member and can make edits fine. [[User:Blueapple128|Blueapple128]] ([[User talk:Blueapple128|talk]]) 21:40, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

::::Firstly, game canon over anime canon/manga canon. Secondly, Lucario and Zoroark weren't considered legendary in their respective movies, unlike Unown which was. Thirdly, Rotom is not a legendary, end of story. Fourthly, being the ''Legendary Pokémon'' does not make Arcanine a legitimate Legendary Pokémon.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 00:04, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

:::::No one's saying that they ought to be legendary. That doesn't mean that those bits can't be put under Trivia; that's what a trivia section is for. On a page titled "Legendary Pokémon", what's wrong with a bullet point stating something like "Arcanine's species name is 'Legendary Pokémon', but it is not considered a Legendary Pokémon"? What's wrong with stating that "Although Rotom is not considered a Legendary Pokémon, its battle encounter music is shared with Legendary Pokémon; it is the only non-Legendary Pokémon to do so"? [[User:Blueapple128|Blueapple128]] ([[User talk:Blueapple128|talk]]) 00:39, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
::::::The Rotom piece is already on Rotom's page. And that is where it should be. The Arcanine piece is not notable, because species name do not dictate anything.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 01:09, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
:::::::Then by your argument, Unown being mentioned isn't notable since as game > anime, the anime's statement that Unown is legendary doesn't mean anything either. Nothing states that a trivia fact can't be placed on two different pages. [[User:Blueapple128|Blueapple128]] ([[User talk:Blueapple128|talk]]) 01:18, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
::::::::The Rotom piece goes on the Rotom page only because it is only about Rotom. Not about its apparent legendary status. As for Unown, we can give some leeway to things that are said in the anime such as Lugia being the master of the legendary birds. Unown was referred to as being legendary even though it isn't.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 01:44, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
::::::::: What about Arcanine though? Its been known for ages that it was initially going to be where Moltres is in its trio until Nintendo (I Think) said they thought two birds and a landwalker would be confusing, surely that makes it notable for a trivia point?--[[User:Ditto51|Ditto51/Tom]] ([[User_Talk:Ditto51|My Talk Page]]) 11:35, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
::::::::::No. That was just fan speculation based on the photo from episode two. Game Frk hasn't even said anything about Arcanine being part of a trio.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 11:52, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

== Green Dragon ==

I just finished pokemon white 2 and shiny dragonite is green and super rare (before white 2) and has been around since the first games perhaps this is the final version of the green dragon? is this notable in the trivia? (I am tlaking about that last piece of trivia that mentions the green dragon and mew) [[User:Pokemonisawesome2|Pokemonisawesome2]] ([[User talk:Pokemonisawesome2|talk]]) 21:05, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
:It hasn't been since first games. There are no Shinies in Gen 1. Also, it's not {{tt|super rare|Wording like that is subjective, anyway.}}. It has the same chances as any other Shiny (which can be boosted in G2 and G4 onwards). [[User:Eridanus|Eridanus]] ([[User talk:Eridanus|talk]]) 21:48, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

oh yeah thats right failure on my part forgot that shinies arent in gen 1 plus I meant its super rare as in 1/8192 because its shiny shines are super rare but yeah i forgot shinies arent gen 1. I still think its an odd coincidence.

Talk:Legendary Pokémon/Archive2

2014-08-09T21:05:28Z

Pokemonisawesome2:

Talk:Driftveil Tournament

2014-07-19T04:27:50Z

Pokemonisawesome2: Created page with " == X == as I recall as I have fought an defeated X 3 times this week I belive he is an ace trainer male not a pokemon ranger male I am playing white 2 just incase its a vers..."

== X ==

as I recall as I have fought an defeated X 3 times this week I belive he is an ace trainer male not a pokemon ranger male I am playing white 2 just incase its a version diffrance thing (which I doubt it is)

Talk:Catch rate

2014-07-19T02:42:58Z

Pokemonisawesome2: /* Shake-Brake Comments */

Talk:Catch rate

2014-07-19T02:42:22Z

Pokemonisawesome2:

The computer science term for "Floor" is, in fact, "int(", which simply truncates the number. "round(" would make a value like 6.9 become 7; "int(" would make it 6. I believe Zhen is correct in this case. ~Evan
:What was that in reference to? - Jshadias
::Zhen's edit and your subsequent reversion, if I read the history right. ~Evan
:::He was just editing it to make it consistent with my other changes. In any case, the after revision is the right-side column. In any case, trunc() and floor() are the same, but int() is ambiguous. It simply means conversion to integer, which could be rounding or truncating. Wish I could get TeX-rendering working... - [[User:Zhen Lin|刘 (劉) 振霖]] 09:40, 12 Feb 2005 (GMT)

== Is this formula accurate? ==

When using the formula

Chance = floor (((( TotalHP * 4 ) - ( CurrentHP * 2 )) * CatchRate ) / TotalHP ) + Status + 1

with Pokémon with high catch rates (ex. Pidgey and Rattata), the formula says that there should be about a 200% chance to catch a Pidgey at 100% HP. But there isn't a 200% chance or even a 100% chance. I caught 5 Pokémon on Route 1 of FireRed without weakening any of them and I used 15 Pokéballs. Despite the sample size, the fact that the Pokémon escaped even once is enough to raise concern about the formula. Any other thoughts on the matter? -Wild Eep

:Experimental data isn't the same as theoretical results. But then again, methinks you might be misinterpreting the results of using this formula. The formula does not return a percentage, it returns a number, and in order to capture a Pokémon, the randomly generated number between 0 and 255 (or possibly a higher number than that, say, 511) has to be below the number you obtain from this formula. But I'm not the game mechanics expert. - [[User:Zhen Lin|振霖]][[User talk:Zhen Lin|T]] 02:16, 25 November 2005 (CST)

Hmm. . . using the formula for any pokémon at any level with full HP and no status ailments with a catch rate of 255 gives an output of 511. Every site I could find has the exact same formula, and they all say the random number is between 0-255. Those that site sources site [[user:Meowth346|Meowth346]] as their source, so maybe he knows, or can find out. [[User:Slim|Slim]] 15:54, 29 November 2005 (CST)

:Indeed, there seems to be something off with either this formula or the listed CatchRates. Trying to catch a Pokemon simply by chucking a normal Pokeball at it (that is, no damage done, no status changes) simplifies as so:

:Chance = floor (Poké Ball * (((( TotalHP * 4 ) - ( CurrentHP * 2 )) * CatchRate ) / TotalHP ) + Status + 1)

:Chance = floor (1 * (((( TotalHP * 4 ) - ( TotalHP * 2 )) * CatchRate ) / TotalHP ) + 0 + 1)

:Chance = floor ((( TotalHP * 2 * CatchRate ) / TotalHP ) + 1)

:Chance = floor (( 2 * CatchRate ) + 1)

:For any CatchRate of 128 or higher, Chance is at least 257. The random number between 0 and 255 this is compared to will always be less than this, and as a result any Pokemon with a CatchRate of 128 or higher should always be caught simply by chucking a Pokeball at it. Yet this does not seem to be the case -- you can't always catch an Abra this way, despite them having a CatchRate of 200. This should give them a Chance of 401, and thus a 100% catch rate. [[User:Wild Eep|Wild Eep]] and [[User:Slim|Slim]] seem to have noticed the same thing. [[User:Opaopa13|Opaopa13]] 05:12, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

::I just noticed something -- note the following line in the article:
:::'''CurrentHP''' is either the wild Pokémon's current HP, or if its current HP is greater than 255, use ''floor ( '''CurrentHP''' / 4)''.
::It doesn't make sense to simply replace '''CurrentHP''' with ''floor ( '''CurrentHP''' / 4)'' -- that would make for a very strange function, where a Pokemon with 256 HP would be easier to catch than one with 68. Replacing all of ''('''CurrentHP''' * 2 )'' just makes the problem worse. This suggests a typographical error somewhere in either the formula or its explanation.

::I had a hunch, and replaced ''(( '''TotalHP''' * 4 ) - ( '''CurrentHP''' * 2 ))'' with ''(( '''TotalHP''' / 4 ) - ( '''CurrentHP''' / 2 ))''. Unfortunately, that's not right either -- according to that forumla, a Pokemon above 50% health will have a negative Chance value and thus can NEVER be caught. We know that is not the case. However, I suspect something along those lines is the solution. Perhaps one of those multiplications is supposed to be a division instead. Is there any healthy chunk of experimental data to look at? [[User:Opaopa13|Opaopa13]] 05:24, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

The sensible thing to do is to ask someone who knows how to use a debugger/disassembler to investigate this. Unfortunately, the only person I know who can do this is pika. - [[User:Zhen Lin|振霖]][[User talk:Zhen Lin|T]] 06:57, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Examining an emulated copy of Pokemon Red, I did, indeed, find it impossible to NOT catch any Rattata or Pidgey I threw a Pokeball at. I was more than ready to believe this formula were true. But, as Opaopa13 said, we know it isn't, because anyone who has played the Red or Blue versions knows Abra is not so easy to catch.

Interestingly, I tried the same thing on a Pidgey in an emulated copy of the Gold version (throwing a ball at it when it was at full health), and failed to capture it until my third try.

I JUST DON'T KNOW WHAT TO BELIEVE! - Pineapple

:It would be easy to explain this if Abra's catch rate was just wrong, but the catch rates must have been data-mined, so that's out. Allow me to be completely speculative here, but perhaps it's something like a rare few Pokemon having an additional chance to escape capture? Or certain catch rates that are influenced by what badges you have? It would be odd to have something like that when the programmers could just alter something's catch rate instead, though...

:Well, we _know_ we get the wrong results for Abra. I'm guessing there was some minor typo somewhere, or else some minor modifier to the formula we aren't aware of.

:On a side-note, I'm still really confused by the "if CurrentHP > 256, use (CurrentHP / 4) instead" thing. I just can't imagine any reason, technical or modelling-wise, where "use CurrentHP = 255" doesn't work just as well or better. Or at least divide by 2! (Pokemon HP never exceeds 1024, right? Thinking in terms of the number of bits it takes to represent these numbers...). [[User:Opaopa13|Opaopa13]] 19:22, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

I think, we should just remove the formula from the page until we can get some authoritative analysis, or otherwise from experimental data. - [[User:Zhen Lin|振霖]][[User talk:Zhen Lin|T]] 06:17, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

I strongly suspect that the only problem with the formula on the site is the 2. I know that's how the old equation simplifies, so the original was probably off as well. 1+INT(B*(2-P)*C+S) makes perfect sense. Then a Pidgey or other Pokemon with a catch rate of 255 is guaranteed to be caught, since at full health and no ailments, you get 256. Any number from 0-255 will be lower than that, so you'll always catch it. On the other hand, a legendary Pokemon with 1/10th of its health left, paralyzed, with an ultra ball thrown an it, is 1+INT(2*1.9*3+5), or 17. 17/256 (since it's a less than roll, not less than or equal to) is about 6.6% (1 in 15). That seems about right, given that it's taken an average of 15-20 ultra balls for me to catch most of the legendaries. The current formula says it would be 28/256, or 10.9% (about 1 in 9), which is definitely not right. Easiest way to test would be to repeatedly try catching something with a catch rate around 120, using a standard ball, and see if it happens about half the time. [[User:Arrkhal|Arrkhal]] 03:50, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

== The correct formula ==

Apparently someone at Smogon found an extremely complex formula on a Japanese website. A good friend of mine simplified it and it seems to be 100% Accurate:

( ( 1 - CurHP * 2 / ( MaxHP * 3 ) ) * Catch * Ball * Status ) / 256

Status:
*1 for Normal
*1.5 for Poisoned, Paralyzed, or Burned
*2 for Asleep or Frozen

Examples:
*A level 2 Rattata, with 13/13 HP, catch rate 255, using a Pokeball. No status effects.
**( ( 1 - 13 * 2 / ( 13 * 3 ) ) * 255 * 1 * 1 ) / 256
**= 0.33203125
**~ 33%
*A level 70 Regigigas, with 1/234 HP, frozen, catch rate 3, using a Dusk ball.
**( ( 1 - 1 * 2 / ( 234 * 3 ) ) * 3 * 4 * 2 ) / 256
**= 0.093482906
**~ 9%

[[User:DanPMK|MK]] 05:51, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
:This does appear to be more reasonable, however, I would like to see this so-called "extremely complex" formula. There may be some rounding going on which affects the precision of the results. - [[User:Zhen Lin|振霖]][[User talk:Zhen Lin|T]] 12:05, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
::The original site had gone down, but thank god for Google cache. [http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:2tdg8lVDQ8wJ:no2.pic.bz/document/ball.html+http://no2.pic.bz/document/ball.html&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us Here]. It appears my friend was a bit exaggerating when he said complex; it's actually just a tad redundant. He reduced it to a simpler form is all. Cheers. [[User:DanPMK|MK]] 08:04, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
:::As I suspected, there is more to it. It seems that the formula result is interpreted in two different ways depending on what the value is. - [[User:Zhen Lin|振霖]][[User talk:Zhen Lin|T]] 12:25, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

== Formula is nowhere near correct ==

I just tried catching a Lv. 13 Feebas at full health (30 HP). I threw three dusk balls at it (while in the cavern, of course), and they all broke. On the fourth try I was able to catch it. It has a catch rate of 255, so according to this formula I have maybe a 400% chance of catching it at full health. Even going by the catch rate alone, I should have had a 100% chance of catching it. This wasn't an atypical situation either. I tried catching a few more before and after this one, and I generally wasn't able to capture them until I weakened them (I caught maybe one or two without hurting it). Once I threw an ultra ball at one, and it immediately broke. I think the pokemon's HP ratio definitely has a lot more to do with catching it than what this formula suggests.

If there are any sources on that other function that someone submitted in here (I don't know how to reply to comments, sorry :<), then that would be really nice. But I tried that equation on the above-mentioned feebas and got (1-(30*2)/(30*3))*255*4*1)/256 (the pokeball page on here says that the dusk ball is 4x in caverns, and Wikipedia says it's twice as good as an ultraball, so I'm going with 4x), which equals 340/256, or 1.328125. This is still above a 100% catch rate on something that seemed like it was maybe 50%. Even going with the assumption that the dusk ball is only 3x better than a pokeball, I still got 255/256, which awfully close to 100%. So unless the dusk ball didn't have its 3x/4x effect (maybe from me fishing in the cavern instead of walking in the cavern?), I don't think this function is true either.

--[[User:Stele007|Stele007]] 18:59, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
:Were you surfing by any chance? There has to be some way to explain this. Feebas is extremely easy to capture regardless. My friend caught several using Quick balls (4x for the first 5 turns) immediately at the start of battle and none of them missed. If you were, perhaps the Dusk balls did not work because of surfing. I know they do work while fishing... [[User:DanPMK|MK]] 06:25, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
:And by several I mean over a dozen. [[User:DanPMK|MK]] 06:28, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

==Safari Zone==

There's something I'd like to ask. In the [[Safari Zone]], you can throw bait and mud in [[Generation IV]]. These are said to make Pokémon easier to catch. However, does anybody know of how EXACTLY do they change the catch rate (Or make them easier to catch somehow)? Thank you. - [[User:JMS|JMS]] 21:27, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
:Actually, I think they alter the percent chance that the Pokémon'll run for it/accuracy of the ball. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]][[User:TTEchidna/GSDS|GSDS!]]''' 22:53, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

::Actually, the equation is posted on the Japanese wikipage for Capture Rate:
::Solve for S (S = Safari)

::S=(Capture Rate×100)÷1275×Rock Compensation÷Food Compensation

::Rock Compensation = Times rock/mud is thrown at Pokémon × 2
::Food Compensation = Times food is thrown at Pokémon × 2

::Then solve for a, which is a special equation for this time around:

::a=(S×1275)÷100

::Just keep in mind that the more mud/rocks you throw, the easier it is to capture, but the easier it is to run away. The more food you throw, the harder it is to capture but it'll stay around longer. - [[User:Gimmetokyo|GimmeTOKYO]]

== Trivia... ==

''The appearances of Pokémon such as Nosepass, Tropius, Carnivine, etc., would suggest that their catch rate is low.''
What the hell?!?!? '''{{Colored link|:User:Origamiguy|ff8000|Lord}} of {{Colored link|:User_talk:Origamiguy|ff8000|Ori}}{{Colored link|Special:Contributions/Origamiguy|ff8000|gami}}''' 18:44, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

:Yeah... I don't know what that means, either. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 18:49, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

::remove it because it makes no sense? i had thought dialga had a low catch rate when i got the game, and it turns out to be 30, quite high for a legendary... '''{{Colored link|:User:Origamiguy|ff8000|Lord}} of {{Colored link|:User_talk:Origamiguy|ff8000|Ori}}{{Colored link|Special:Contributions/Origamiguy|ff8000|gami}}''' 18:50, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
:::I know what it's saying: They look like the kind of Pokémon that would have a lower catch rate than they actually do. That's still based on the player's conjecture and probably not worth noting. --[[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] |[[User talk:Fabu-Vinny|Talk Page]]| 18:54, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

What I believe it was saying is that the rarity of these pokémon would suggest they have a low catch rate, just like one of a kind pokémon do. However, they actually have quite high catch rates. Does this seem right? [[User:Da Rammo|Da Rammo]] 06:34, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

: I put a note in the lede to try to address this last interpretation. [[User:AySz88|AySz88]] 11:50, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

== Easier explanation? ==

I think there should be an easier explanation included in this article, something of a tl;dr section. To me, this is all mathematical mumbo-jumbo, and I commonly fail anything and everything algebraic. I could honestly care less how the game determines how a pokemon is caught, I just know that I need to lower the HP of the wild Pokémon and possibly inflict a status problem on it to catch it. Also, on major thing that's missing from the article is it doesn't explain if a higher number for a catch rate is better or worse. It may be a dumb question to ask (but I don't honestly get it, either) but you quite often have to write for the five-year-old poké-tards that will be here.
:Higher number for catch rate increases likelihood of capture. It's why Mewtwo's is 3. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 04:39, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

My brain hurts... too much math... [[User:Diachronos|Diachronos]] 16:55, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Will you please make this article in a way that actually makes sense? It tells me nothing helpful. [[User:Alakazam 2|Alakazam 2]]
:I agree, a simplified, even if less informative, version of this article would probably be more helpful to a lot more users.[[User:Gastly's mama|Gastly's mama]] 15:36, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

: I tried to write a more accessible way to interpret the formula. Also see Reworking the ''a'' term below.... [[User:AySz88|AySz88]] 11:51, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

== CatchRate Calculator ==

I have written a small catch-rate calculator program. You put in details of the opponent's HP,Max HP, Base CatchRate,status ailment, and choose which ball you are using (along with ball-specific factors), and it tells you the chances of catching the pokemon. Should i include a link on the page? '''{{Colored link|:User:Origamiguy|f80|Lord}} of {{Colored link|:User_talk:Origamiguy|f80|Ori}}{{Colored link|User:Origamiguy/Mudkipz|08f|gami}}''' 12:06, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
:I think so. Where does all this come from anyways? O_O [[User:Sivart345|--Sivart]][[User talk:Sivart345|3]][[Special:Contributions/Sivart345|4]][[User:Firestorm|'''5''']] 01:58, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

== Heavy Ball ==

How does it work into the formula if the ball bonus adds instead of multiplying? Does it add before or after the status bonus? --[[User:Kaoz|Kaoz]] 16:29, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
:Order of operations. Multiplication first. [[User:Ht14|'''''ht''''']][[User talk:Ht14|''14'']] 16:42, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
::Are you sure? Because if it works just like I think you're saying, you just replace the Ball Multiplier with a flat "+30" rate (or whatever technically applies). I calculated the catch rate of Groudon using a Heavy Ball VS a Great Ball, and the Great Ball outperformed the specialty Poké Ball. If that's the case, Heavy Balls are pretty useless.--[[User:Purimpopoie|Purimpopoie]] 13:33, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
:: I doubt that "order of operations" applies here; it's relatively easy to just apply the +30 before the multiplications coding-wise (much like using parenthesis). One would need to look at the game code somehow, probably, to see for certain. [[User:AySz88|AySz88]] 12:07, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

== Luxury or Friendly? ==

Which is more effective? [[User:Ht14|'''''ht''''']][[User talk:Ht14|''14'']] 01:05, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
:it depends, i know squat about the catch rate, but i do know the luxury ball increases how fast the pokemon's friendship raises while the friendly(?) ball gives an immediate boost... by how much i'm not quite sure. - [[User:Geomexis|Geomexis]] 12:59, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
::Luxury Balls increase the rate at which your pokemon becomes friendly from actions as outlined in the [[Happiness]] article. Friend Balls automatically set the pokemon's happiness to 200 (instead of the usual 70) when caught. Both poke balls have a catch rate of 1x. Max happiness is 255 and happiness-based evolutions happen at 220+ so usually the Friend Ball will get you there quickly for cheap. ~[[User:mjblink|mjblink]]{{Unsigned|mjblink}}

== Reworking the ''a'' term ==

In every location in this article that I can tell, it would be clearer if ''a'' were already divided by 255, i.e. substituting ''a''/255 = ''a''/(2^8 - 1) in each formula with a new variable. (Even that odd-looking 16711680 is 255 * 65536 .) Then ''a'' simply becomes equal to the approximation to ''p'' and there is an obvious intuitive meaning to it. I used this idea in the new lede, and it'd probably be clearer to do this in the rest of the article as well.

Is there some reason why ''a'' was defined this way that I don't know of? [[User:AySz88|AySz88]] 11:39, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

== Trivia on HP ==

There's a bit in the "Trivia" section about high-HP Pokémon being easier to catch at 1 HP than lower-HP ones. This is true, but it also states that "Pokémon with higher HP stats (such as Chansey) are easier to capture when their HP is reduced, despite low catch rates compared to others." But there isn't a big-enough effect to overwhelm the catch rate except at very very low HP levels. The equation in the current article can be reorganized this way:
a = catch_rate * ball_bonus * status_bonus * (1 - 2/3 * (currentHP / maxHP) )
And at 1 HP:
a = catch_rate * ball_bonus * status_bonus * (1 - 2/(3 * maxHP))
And comparing the HP penalties at 1 HP:
* 10 HP max: 1 - 2/(3 * 10) = 1 - 2/30 = 6.7% penalty (i.e. 0.933x)
* 20 HP max: 1 - 2/(3 * 20) = 1 - 2/60 = 3.3% penalty
* 100HP max: 1 - 2/(3 * 100) = 1 - 2/300 = 0.66% penalty
* 200HP max: 1 - 2/(3 * 200) = 1 - 2/600 = 0.33% penalty
... Once you get past 20ish HP, shaving off bits of that last 3% of (multiplicative) penalty is pretty negligible, equivalent to around 7 points of catch rate at most (3% of 255). [[User:AySz88|AySz88]] 10:40, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

== Generation I? ==

In Generation I, the mechanisms are somewhat different. For example, the number of shakes doesn't seem to be determined randomly and a Poké Ball can even entirely miss a target. Do the Gen. I games also use a completely different formula or does it work the same way as currently described in the article? {{unsigned|Socob}}
:The formula is definitely different in Generation I - I think Pokémon with very high catch rate (like Pidgey) were more difficult to catch, and Pokémon with very low catch rate (like Articuno) were easier to catch. By the way, the number of shakes has not been determined randomly since at least the beginning of Generation IV. [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 16:06, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
::I thought so. It would be nice if we had some information about this, but I don't think that's very easy to get. About the shaking - I'm not sure if that's also what you meant, but what I was referring to by "not randomly" in Generation I is that a Ball will always shake the same amount of times on a Pokémon as long as you don't change its HP/status condition (unless it's caught). -- [[User:Socob|Socob]] ( [[User_talk:Socob|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Socob|Contribs]] ) 10:22, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
:::Actually, I just thought of this: You can try asking Pokémon ROM hacking communities about Generation I catch rate mechanics. [http://www.pokecommunity.com The PokéCommunity] is one of the few Pokémon sites that has a dedicated sub-forum for ROM hacking discussion. [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 19:32, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
:I have put up a complete analysis of the R/B/Y capture algorithm on [http://www.dragonflycave.com/rbycapture.aspx my website], based on the actual code. Something about it should at least probably be included on the page. [[User:Dragonfree|Dragonfree]] 09:00, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

== Trivia ==
Somewhere else on this site, I read that the lowest possible catch rate is 3 since if it were any lower, the Master ball would have a chance of failing. http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/List_of_Pokemon_by_catch_rate#Trivia [[User:KurosakisTwin|KurosakisTwin]] 17:22, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
:False. The Master Ball bypasses the formula entirely, so even if the catch rate were 0, the it would still catch the Pokémon. --[[User:A magical me|a_magical_me]] 23:09, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
::How do you know that? As far as I know, the Master Ball simply uses a value of 255 for the 'BonusBall' variable in the formula.
::With this, if all the other factors in the formula multiplied would result in a number less than one, 'a' would be less than 255 and thus, the Pokémon would have a chance of escaping. Quoting from the article, "The minimum value for 'a' (for a Pokémon with full health) would be ⅓ × catch rate." Since the result of the formula without the BonusBall component has to be at least one for the Master Ball to work reliably, this means that the catch rate must at least be 3 (as ⅓ × 3 = 1).
::This seems to be reasonable evidence to me as to why we've never seen catch rates lower than 3. -- [[User:Socob|Socob]] ( [[User_talk:Socob|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Socob|Contribs]] ) 12:29, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Also, I'm pretty sure that the game wouldn't make an exception for the master ball. That would result in a lot more code, and therefore it's just easier to not make more code and make the lowest catch rate 3 so that the Master Ball can catch anything. [[User:KurosakisTwin|KurosakisTwin]] 09:01, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Socob, I know because it's what [http://upokecenter.com/games/rs/guides/catchrate.php UPC says] and it's what [http://no2.pic.bz/document/ball.html the reference] in [[Catch rate#References|the article]] says. Also because I have read the relevant code in both Diamond and HeartGold, and I can tell you that the Master Ball is simply not implemented in the way you suggest.
:::: KurosakisTwin, it does not require "a lot more code", just a couple lines—a small <code>if</code> statement—and is what any sane programmer would do.
:::: And here is something to think about: the lowest catch rate has been 3 since the beginning, way back in Red and Blue, when a [http://upokecenter.com/games/rby/guides/catchrate.php completely different algorithm] was used. --[[User:A magical me|a_magical_me]] 07:33, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
:::::Even UPC and the reference have their sources (which might be false), and even if they aren't, no matter how it's actually calculated in the games' codes, the Master Ball works without fail, so the statements on UPC don't necessarily indicate the actual calculations.
:::::Still, if you have viewed the code as you say, there's not much I can argue against that. All of what I've said above was, of course, simply evidence that pointed in the direction of a Master Ball with a value of 255. Naturally, the catch rates of 3 might be there to prevent "a" from being below 1 for entirely different reasons. If "a" is actually rounded down to an integer (which is actually stated in the article), then it would have to be at least 1 for the formula to work. However, this seems strange considering your last statement about the algorithm in Generation I. I haven't looked at it closely, but I guess it also needed catch rates of at least 3. I wonder, though, why the developers would go through the trouble of changing the algorithm, but leaving in the necessity of those catch rates of three or higher.
:::::Long story short: You looked at the code, I didn't, so you're probably right. -- [[User:Socob|Socob]] ( [[User_talk:Socob|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Socob|Contribs]] ) 15:28, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
== Critical Capture ==
Should we write about critical capture, of black and white, here?--[[User:Kantenoh|Kantenoh]] 21:56, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

I belive from what i've read and when it happened to me,that there's a not so small chance (I don't know how high), that the pokeball will, when thrown, let out a woosh (a higher pitched on than normaly), absorb a pokemon, let out a metalic sound (ping a little like its captured), shake(a fast shake not a roll) in mid-air, fall down like usualy, then shake only once (not 3 times like usually), and have because of that idk probably about 3 times the capture ratio i suppose.
[[User:Codebracker|Codebracker]]

== Trainer pokemon level ==

I've been thinking about it for quite some time now, but pokemon are easier to capture depending on the level of the pokemon you battle it with.

I tried to catch a pokemon with a lv.5 and lv.8 pokemon and i couldn't catch it with ultraballs in 5 tries, than i swaped it for lv.75 pokemon and it worked on first try.

So could the level of the trainer's pokemon also apply somewhere in the formula?
[[User:Codebracker|Codebracker]]

:5 tries is not NEARLY enough trials to draw any kind of conclusion from. If you really want to test this, you're going to have to set up a comprehensive experiment and run it thousands of times. Alternatively, someone who has read the source code can tell you for sure. --[[User:Toksyuryel|Toksyuryel]] 04:40, 9 January 2011 (UTC)
::I haven't read the code, but the people who wrote this article have. The only time your Pokémon's level is factored in is when you are using a [[Level Ball]]. This was actually recently brought up on the forums. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 04:41, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

== Critical Capture Rate ==

What is the rate of a Critical Capture in Generation V? --[[User:Nathan2055|Nathan2055]][[User Talk:Nathan2055|talk]] 21:22, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
That's what I want to know in Gen 6.--[[User:Hydreigonfan1|Hydreigonfan1]] ([[User talk:Hydreigonfan1|talk]]) 14:02, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

== High or low? ==

It should say in the very beginning whether a high or low number makes it easier/harder for a Pokémon to catch. I don't even think it's ever in the article. - [[User:Colorshade|Colorshade]] 22:20, 13 April 2011 (UTC)
: Good suggestion; I've added that. :) [[User:AySz88|AySz88]] 17:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

== Critical capture ambiguity ==

In the Critical Capture section right now, it says "A random number is generated, and if it is less than the modified value, a critical capture occurs." But what range is the random number in? [[User:AySz88|AySz88]] 20:38, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
:It seems sensible for the range to be 0 to 255 inclusive, since that is the base of the modified value. [[User:Naokohiro|Naokohiro]] 23:54, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

== Catch chance ==
Can anybody tell me whether the chance to catch a Pokémon in Generation I is equal to them in Generation II (and the others) or the chance is different? E.g. I throw an ordinary ball to a full-healthy Weedle. Is the chance to catch it in all generations identically (according to [[Weedle]] 33,3%) despite the fact the capture methods are different? I'm sorry again for my bad English! --[[User:LaBumm|LaBumm]] 04:29, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

== Doubt Generation III Algorithm ==
I'm starting to doubt the generation III algorithm. These are my findings in FireRed. I calculated for a paralyzed lvl 50 Moltres at 1 HP (exactly 1 HP due to endure) with a maximum HPmax of 165 (courtesy of Pokemon.Marriland.com) and a capture rate of 3 with an Ultra Ball. 
A = (3x165-2x1)x3x2/3/156x1.5 = 8 (rounded down) 
B = (2^16-1)xA^(1/4)/(255)^(1/4) = 27581 (rounded down) 
This gives a success rate of: 
(27581 / 65535)^4 = 0.031 (rounded down) or 3.1% 
At the moment I have thrown 400 (FOUR HUNDRED!) Ultra Balls, and still not captured it. 
The chance of that happening would be (1-0.031)^400 = 0.000002902 or 1:344550 
Please tell me I made a mistake in my calculation. It lies rather far outside the normal 0.05 error margin for experimental testing of hypotheses. 
I redid the same sort of testing for Zapdos, I didn't calculate my exact chances, this time I didn't manage to catch it in 200 tries. 
[[User:Ghostbird|Ghostbird]] 00:11, 25 November 2011 (UTC) EDITED: [[User:Ghostbird|Ghostbird]] 12:41, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

I retried catching Moltres and this time I caught it after 15-20 tries. (I wasn't counting) 
The only differences I knew of:
* I had defeated team rocket in Saffron and Giovanni in Viridian's gym.
* I was facing it with a pokémon over lvl 50. (However I caught Articuno using a lvl 30-ish pokemon)
* It was at more than 1 HP (he had a two pixel health bar).

I retried catching Zapdos and this time I did 200 fruitless tries. I noticed that though it had very little health left, it almost always broke free at the first check. 
Something that you should know:
* I've been using a state reload system to quickly retry catching when the capture failed. (Otherwise these capture tests, which require as much attempts as possible, are infeasible.)

I managed to Capture Zapdos on try 41 after reloading the original save (not a state save), (re)initiating combat and then using the reload state method. This time it generally broke free much later, often passing two shake checks and only breaking free at the last check, until I captured it. 

Hypothesis:
* There's something that influences catch rate, which kicks in before you are at the [Use|Cancel] screen after selecting the capture device (Ultra Ball). 
[[User:Ghostbird|Ghostbird]] 17:55, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

* I believe your problem is the fact that you are using the same save state over and over. Typically, random number generators (RNG) initialize with a single random number called the seed and derive subsequent random values using a mathematical formula. When you save a state on your emulator, you are also saving the current state of the RNG used. So theoretically, you are asking the RNG for a random number in the same exact state each time, resulting in the same result every time you reload. I think this is why you managed to capture your Zapados some time after reloading the original save (new random seed). I'm not sure exactly how you used the reload state method after reinitializing combat. Did you have to hard reload the game 41 times or did you reload once and use the save state 41 times? Please elaborate on this. [[User:Invgamma|Invgamma]] 20:45, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

== Investigation of the RNG ==

I recently thought about the specific cases where the catch formula does not seem to describe the behavior of certain Pokemon. On review, I noticed that the catch formula assumes that every random number generated is completely independent of every other random number. If the random number were using some sort of non-deterministic input to calculate a new seed every time a number is requested, this certainly would be true; however, this is normally not the case.

Consider the case of an encounter with a rare Pokemon with a somewhat high catch rate. Assume that the game finds a new random seed whenever an encounter is supposed to happen (probably sometime before) and uses that number to both determine the Pokemon encountered and to seed further random numbers. When you ask the RNG to generate the next couple random numbers, they are completely dependent on the algorithm used and the seed. With a rare Pokemon, the number of random seeded values that result in an encounter with it is sizable, but smaller than a common Pokemon. If the RNG is not reseeded, the number of possible scenarios (with strings of random numbers) greatly decreases. In this case, it could simply be a mathematical oddity (of the algorithm) where the select few seeds that allows an encounter with a rare Pokemon has subsequent random values that allow it to easily be caught (or even possibly more difficult to catch).

If this is the case, then the rarity of each Pokemon can easily influence catch probabilities by "shaping" the subsequent numbers (by pure mathematical accident). Some random values might even be impossible for, let's say, the first pokeball thrown right after an encounter of a rarer Pokemon.
[[User:Invgamma|Invgamma]] 21:02, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

* Just ran a couple of scenarios on an emulated version of Pokemon White. If I load save states right before encountering a Pokemon (a legendary that you can approach), you can get different random seeds for the battle (first action resulted differently each time). This probably means that the seed for the battle is determined based on conditions right when you encounter the pokemon. [[User:Invgamma|Invgamma]] 23:58, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

:Just to let you know, I've done the investigation already :) Check Smogon's RNG Research thread[http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3698857&postcount=765] to get filled in on how the game seeds the battle RNG and (approximately) does the majority of battle RNG operations. RNG is only reseeded between battles. Every game uses 4 random numbers for the shake calculations, the only thing new in gen 5 is the critical capture calc.
:First it calculates if critical capture, then the shake/capture values. If result < CV, pass check. Total of 4 for regular catch, 1 for CC.
:Come ask about the battle RNG in IRC, synirc #smogonwifi

== A comment on Critical Capture ==

Having read through the article and especially the section describing the critical capture, it occurred to me that since it usually uses three shake checks, it is cubing the base probability of capture. By only using one shake check, it does not get cubed, which is why it allows capture to occur easier. However, the amount it increases capture rate is dependent on how difficult it is to capture in the first place. Another way to think about what I previously said is to take any specific set of conditions (a species in the wild, how much HP it has out of its total HP, and if it has any status ailments) and calculate the probability of catching it with any one type of ball. You could then take that final probability and, assuming that the same exact conditions and ball are used, a critical capture will increase the chances of capture to the cube root of the capture probability without a critical capture. This relationship means that the lower the capture rate is in specific conditions, the more difference a critical will make in the probability of catching it.

A couple examples would be if a legendary pokemon is attempting to be caught in specific conditions that would create a normal capture probability of 1%, if it is instead a critical capture, that will increase to a 21.5% capture probability. However, at higher capture probability this difference is much smaller. If there is an easily captured pokemon at low health, with a status ailment, and the normal capture probability is 90%, a critical capture in the same circumstances would mean a 96.5% capture probability.

Is this worth adding into the article, or am I just having too much fun with the math?[[User:Morranr|Mor'ranr]] 16:07, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

:It would be cool to see the adjusted probability of that helping, but I don't think it would be one dimensional because of the different critical capture rates.
: If critical capture calc passes, shake check once; else thrice.
:[[User:Kaphotics|Kaphotics]] 00:04, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

:I definitely think it is useful to point out the relationship, and the difference in effect between Pokémon with low rates and high rates. But it might be better to use "realistic" numbers for any examples in the article (i.e. 3/255 instead of 1%). [[User:AySz88|AySz88]] 05:07, 24 February 2012 (UTC)
:<s>Wait, shouldn't it be fourth root? The article says there's needs to be one shake check to pass instead of ''four'' normally. [[User:AySz88|AySz88]] 05:14, 24 February 2012 (UTC)</s>
:: Oops, no, was accidentally looking at a different generation. [[User:AySz88|AySz88]] 07:40, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
::: Fourth roots and third roots never happen in game. The b equation listed is just a probability of you catching (ie all the shake compares lumped together). It does a*0x100 > rand(0,65535) for a pass shake calc. 4 times for gen 3-4, 3x for gen 5 after criticalcapture. That's the one gripe I have about this page, the mathematical approximations aren't what the game does. [[User:Kaphotics|Kaphotics]] 19:22, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
:::: I'm not sure what you're saying here. Yes, the algorithm used for a shake check is not literally a third or fourth root. But while it's nice to document the exact algorithm somewhere, it's probably much more useful to explain the practical results of the algorithm - thus why there are the approximations used in the lede (and occasionally sprinkled elsewhere). You can be sure that when the game designers were playing with formulas, they were doing it in general terms, not caring about whether the RNG was 16-bit or whether a division rounded up or down. The algorithms in the code are crafted to follow their intent. (The difference is famously illustrated in that [https://www.google.com/search?q=pokemon+serious+business old "Pokémon: Serious Business" image] that had an old version of this article - indeed, it's what inspired me to craft the new lede in the first place.) Let's keep our audience in mind.
:::: Though, that does bring up something else: it might be a good idea to more clearly separate the exact algorithms from the approximate interpretations, instead of the hodgepodge mix in the article currently. [[User:AySz88|AySz88]] 05:23, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

:::: Kaphotics (or, anyone), could you elaborate on "It does a*0x100 > rand(0,65535) for a pass shake calc."? I don't understand how multiplying by 256 is equivalent to 65536 / (255/''a'')(1/4) as listed in the article. —[[User:Naokohiro|Naokohiro]] 10:55, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
::::: When I wrote that I wasn't thinking clearly, it does keep the 4th root and such. For every check it does - rand(0xFFFF) and compares it to b. If it is less than b, it passes the wiggle calc and checks again until it either fails or the wiggles result in capture. [[User:Kaphotics|Kaphotics]] 17:45, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

== Generation V -- Interesting Probabilities ==

Since we are still getting the 4th root of the initial probability a and doing 3 shake checks, that makes the chance of capture when the critical capture chance is 0 equal to a3/4.

This takes what would normally be a linear probability always equal to a and puts it on an exponential curve.

If we have more than 30 in the dex, the probability now changes. There is a (a*m)*a1/4 chance of getting a critical capture and then succeeding in capture. Let m be the multiplier for critical capture which is based on the amount caught in the Pokédex. There's also a (1 - a*m)*a3/4 chance of getting a normal capture. So, the total chance of getting a capture is now (a*m)*a1/4 + (1 - a*m)*a3/4 (with m=0, 0.5, 1, 1.5, 2, or 2.5 respectively).

What this does is make an increasingly steeper curve the higher the value of m, but the curve always starts at (0, 0) and ends at (1, 1).
Actually, in the higher values for m, the curve actually gets so steep that it begins to increase a by more than 100% for part of the curve, which suggests a higher chance of capture when the Pokémon isn't completely at its weakest.
I just thought this information was interesting. It's almost like catching Pokémon has its own level up system. [[User:Naokohiro|Naokohiro]] 00:55, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

:Is this something worth mentioning in the article? —[[User:Naokohiro|Naokohiro]] 00:58, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
::I haven't had Critical Capture debugged, but I noticed that what is currently the going theory on the page wasn't matching up with the battle RNG. The critical capture section is really... empty, so why not? If you want to put it in the article be sure to have an image of it! [[User:Kaphotics|Kaphotics]] 17:45, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

==Gen V Shake Rate==
Isn't the Gen V shake rate listed functionally the same as the Gen IV one? It seems slightly redundant having both formulas up, claiming to be different...[[User:Unknowen900|Unknowen900]] ([[User talk:Unknowen900|talk]]) 08:33, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

== Level ball ==

The formula seems to be flawed for the Level Ball. I'm playing HeartGold and I was trying to catch a level 4 Aipom (full health) using my level 58 Crobat. According the the formula, I should have had a 140% chance of catch the Aipom with a Level Ball. I threw 3 or 4 level balls at the Aipom and all of them broke. I've generally found most Pokémon to be more difficult to catch than this formula and their catch rates indicated that they should be, but the Level Ball, in particular, doesn't seem to increase catch rates significantly, if at all. [[User:RS89|RS89]] ([[User talk:RS89|talk]]) 01:59, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
:The number is 140, Then it generates a random number from 0-255, and it does something else. It's not a percentage. I think. --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 02:21, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
::Nevermind. I just realized I missed a step. [[User:RS89|RS89]] ([[User talk:RS89|talk]]) 02:39, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

== The Formula Simplified (as much as possible) ==
Here's the simple explanation (in Gen V): Your chances to catch a Pokemon are based on 5 things normally (6, if you count capture power, but that is not a normal thing).

'''1st. Species Specific Catch Chance:''' Meaning some pokemon are super easy to catch and come are super hard. The only way to look get this is to just look up the Pokemon, it's Catch Rate is listed in it's info box (on a scale of 0 to 255). So, if it has a 255, you will catch it.
:Pretty much a 100% chance. If it is a 45 (like Celibi) then you only have a 6% chance to catch it before any other factors.

'''2nd. It's Current Health:''' If the creature is at full HP, than your normal chances are cut to 1/3. This means that a 255 would be a 33% chance with a Pokeball at full HP and a Celibi would be a 2% chance. This continues to decrease all the way to 1 HP,
:which gives you between 99% and 99.9% of your normal. Meaning the HP basically no longer negatively affects your catch chance at 1 HP.

'''3rd. The Type of Ball Used:''' You have a normal chance with a Pokeball. Your chance is multiplied by 1.5x for a Great Ball, 2x for an Ultra Ball, 3x for a Repeat or Net Ball, 3.5x for Dive or Dusk Ball, 4x for a Timer or Nest Ball (at max), and 5x for a Quick Ball.
:These all assume you are using them correctly (i.e. Dusk in caves, Repeat on owned Pokemon, and Quick in round 1). Timer and Nest balls can multiply your chances by everything from 1x to 4x (including 3.2134x or some other random number).
:Nest Balls are 4x for a level 1 Pokemon, 3x for a level 11, 2x for a level 21, and 1x for everything above level 30. Timer balls are 1x in the first round, 2x after 10 rounds, 3x after 20, and 4x after 30 rounds.
:This means, if you are trying to catch a pokemon with a catch rate of 255 (easiest possible) at full HP with a Great Ball your chances would start at 100% for the 255, drop to 33% because he is at full HP, and then would increase back to 50% with a Great Ball ((((255 * .33) * 1.5) = 114.75) 114.75/255 = 0.495).
:The same Pokemon would be a 100% chance of catching it with a Quick, Dive, or Dusk Ball (also 100% with a Nest or Timer Ball at max conditions). It is still a 99% chance with a Repeat or Net Ball. It is only a 66% chance; however, with an Ultra Ball or a 50% chance with a Great Ball.
:It would be a 33% chance with a normal Pokeball (Basically normal, Great, and Ultra Balls suck).

'''4th. Status Ailments:''' This is simple, and it stacks multiplicity. Meaning if the pokemon is Paralyzed, Poisoned, or Burned then your chances are 1.5x and if it is Slept or Frozen, then your chances are 2.5x.
:So, in the above example, a 255 Pokemon (100%) at full HP (33%) using a Great Ball (1.5x) gives you a 50% chance. If that same Pokemon is Paralyzed then your chances increase to 75%. If it is Paralyzed AND Poisoned then your chances are 100%.
:Also, if it was JUST Asleep (no Poison or Paralysis) then your chances are still 100% ((255 (Catch Rate) * 0.33 (Full HP) = 84.15) (84.15 * 1.5 (Great Ball) = 126.225) (126.225 * 2.5 = 315.5625) That is higher than 255 so you have a 100% chance).

'''5th. Dark Grass:''' Basically this means that if your encounter is in Dark Grass it is harder to catch the Pokemon based on how far through the game you are. In the beginning of the game, it will further decrease the penalty for it's HP by up to half and at the end of the game you will have full chances.
:100% normal chance if you have more than 600 Completed Pokedex Entries (not just seen, but caught). You will have a 90% of your normal chance if you have between 451 and 600 completed Pokedex entries, 80% for 301 to 450 entries, 70% for 151 to 300 entries, 60% for 30 to 151 entries,
:and 50% of your normal chance if you have less than 30 completed Pokedex entries. Meaning, almost the entire game you will sit at 60% in dark grass. This means that if you have a Pokemon with a Catch Rate of 255 at full HP and you tried to catch him with a normal Pokeball then normally you have a 33% chance.
:If it happens in Dark Grass you have a 16.6% chance. If you used an Ultra Ball, normally you would have a 66% chance, in Dark Grass you would have a 33% chance. The math is a little longer to show here but ...
:Here: (250HP x3 = 750 - (250x2) = 250) <- 1st half of the HP formula. now ((250 * .5 (Dark Grass)) = 125), then (125 * 2 (Ultra Ball) = 250) and Finally ((250/(250 * 3)) = 0.333) <- 2nd half of the HP formula.

I know that is sort of long, but I hope that makes more sense.
[[User:Degrelecence|Degrelecence]] ([[User talk:Degrelecence|talk]]) 06:18, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

EDIT: Sorry forgot that whole Capture Power thing. The 6th factor is Capture Power. The catch rate is multiplied by 1.1x if Capture Power ↑ is active, 1.2x if ↑↑ is active, or 1.3x if ↑↑↑, Capture Power S, or Capture Power MAX is active. [[User:Degrelecence|Degrelecence]] ([[User talk:Degrelecence|talk]]) 06:34, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

:You said that for <30 and 30-151 the percent chances are capture in dark grass are 50% and 60% respectively, but the table provided in the article says these values are 30% and 50% at these intervals. Which one is correct? --[[User:Skit7548|Skit7548]] ([[User talk:Skit7548|talk]]) 05:28, 28 October 2013 (UTC)

== Generation V shake checks ==

The article currently states that three shake checks occur for a regular capture in the Generation V games. This is contradicted by Kaphotics on Smogon (and earlier on this page), who claims that four shake checks occur. Which is correct? [[User:Arcorann|Arcorann]] ([[User talk:Arcorann|talk]]) 08:31, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

== Critical Capture chances? ==

How rare is it to get a Critical Capture?
I'm really confused with this. We could put this on the Critical Capture section. I know the more you capture Pokemon in your Pokedex the more chance you'll catch a Pokemon and it usually always works without fail except if you don't catch Pokemon a lot. But I want to know how rare it is. I got 3 Critical Captures in 1 Day and 2 of them were one after another. How rare is it so we can put it on the Critical Capture area?--[[User:Hydreigonfan1|Hydreigonfan1]] ([[User talk:Hydreigonfan1|talk]]) 14:00, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
:It says how rare it is. To be simple: whatever number the final catch rate is, that number is multiplied by 0, 0.5, 1, 1.5, 2 or 2.5 (depending on how many Pokémon you caught), and then a random number is generated. If it's lower than the number received by multiplying final catch rate, critical capture occurs. [[User:Uploader|Uploader]] ([[User talk:Uploader|talk]]) 14:12, 19 December 2013 (UTC) PS. The only thing missing is what's the interval for that random number. The critical catch success otherwise is based on how likely you are to catch mon (and isn't a guaranteed catch unless you would catch it anyway). [[User:Uploader|Uploader]] ([[User talk:Uploader|talk]]) 14:14, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

== Generation II Shake Probability table ==

Why isn't [[Catch_rate#Generation II 2|this]] an actual table? --[[User:Det|Det]] ([[User talk:Det|talk]]) 08:36, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
:It is, actually. It just doesn't have any pretty borders. ...Also, it's arguably formatted badly (text alignment).
:I did something to it. I experimented with the styles that are on other tables on the page, but it didn't look good to me, so I kept it dead simple. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 09:27, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

== Critical Catch ==

The example can't be right. It says, that catching Kyurem with catch rate 3 with max HP and Pokéball has a probability of 0.4%, which is right. For a critical capture the value 25.03% is given, which is (0.4%)^(1/4) or the forth-root of the chance, respectively. But why should it be the forth-root instead of third-root? Remember that in Gen V only THREE shake checks are performed. The example would be right for Gen IV, but not for Kyurem. Or is there something I do not understand? - Pokémon [[User:Pokémon|Questions?]] -- 23:37, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

:I have checked the version history now. In fact this example has been done before finding out that since Generation V only three shakes are performed (or one for a critical capture). It must be a wrong example. Otherwise I has no mathmatical sense. It's almost like saying 1/3 * 4 = 1. You cannot have only three shakes, but set a single shake to the extend of 4 to get the whole capture chance p. The real chance of this example has to be 15.77%.- Pokémon [[User:Pokémon|Questions?]] -- 00:36, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

== The nearest 1/4096 ==

"and then rounded to the nearest multiple of 1/4096"

I always read this, but... what does it mean?!? The first multiple is 4096 to get a whole number, so if I have numbers between 0 and 255 I always would round them to 1. Nonsence. I just don't understand this expression. - Pokémon [[User:Pokémon|Questions?]] -- 03:34, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

:I believe it means the game uses 12 fractional bits. If the program is executed in the order shown, "(3*HP_MAX - 2*HP_Current)*rate*ball/3/HP_MAX*status", the "/3" will round the result then "/HP_Max" will round the result again. If we were only dealing with int data types, each division would round the result to the next lowest integer (1/3 = 0, 13/10 = 1, 9000/4096 = 2). The fractional bits ensure a calculation like 400/3 yields 546133/4096 (133.33325) instead of just 133 - an error of .006% instead .25%. Is it going to make much of a difference after you round to the nearest whole number? Not really. But when you have the memory and the processing power, this becomes a trivial process, so why not. [[User:Rulingsword|Rulingsword]] ([[User talk:Rulingsword|talk]]) 04:47, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

== Generation VI Catch Rate Formula ==

I think that we can say with certainty that the catch rate formula has changed drastically in Generation VI. [[Zygarde]] has a catch rate of 0 which would mean that it could not be captured except with a Master Ball. This is assuming that the catch rate given is correct. {{unsigned|Mudmaster97}}
:Most Gen VI Pokémon's catch rate aren't known, so it says 0. [[User:Glik|Glik]] ([[User talk:Glik|talk]]) 15:54, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

== Blowing into the microphone ==
In generation IV it was rumored that blowing into the microphone increased your chances of catching the Pokémon. I know to take rumors with a pinch of salt, but it appeared as an official tip in the Official Nintendo Magazine a few years ago. --[[User:Evacino|'''evacino''']][[User talk:Evacino|''' (talk)''']] 19:51, 19 February 2014 (GMT)

== This page confuses people horribly ==

After browsing through a bunch of catch rate-related questions on PokémonDB, I have come to the conclusion that this page is frightfully confusing for the average fan. People scroll down to the later generations, see the single big formula graphic for the modified catch rate in generations III-IV, plug in the numbers, get something that looks vaguely like it could be a percentage and then assume that's it. This could probably be avoided or mitigated by rewriting or at least rearranging the page so that the shake probability calculation is at least closer to the modified catch rate, so people see that there is more to it than that one formula, but I'm open to suggestions. Any thoughts?{{unsigned|Dragonfree}}

== Shake-Brake Comments ==

In BW2 the 1 shake-brake comment is exactly like it is execpt with "Aww" not "Aww" also the 2 shake-break comment isnt listed but I will find out what it is ( sry I havent been signing my comments I keep forgetting) [[User:Pokemonisawesome2|Pokemonisawesome2]] ([[User talk:Pokemonisawesome2|talk]]) 02:38, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

== Gen V Shake-Break Comment ==

In BW2 the 1 shake-brake comment is exactly like it is execpt with "Aww" not "Aww" also the 2 shake-break comment isnt listed but I will find out what it is ( sry I havent been signing my comments I keep forgetting) [[User:Pokemonisawesome2|Pokemonisawesome2]] ([[User talk:Pokemonisawesome2|talk]]) 02:42, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

Talk:Catch rate

2014-07-19T02:38:36Z

Pokemonisawesome2: /* Shake-Brake Comments */ new section

The computer science term for "Floor" is, in fact, "int(", which simply truncates the number. "round(" would make a value like 6.9 become 7; "int(" would make it 6. I believe Zhen is correct in this case. ~Evan
:What was that in reference to? - Jshadias
::Zhen's edit and your subsequent reversion, if I read the history right. ~Evan
:::He was just editing it to make it consistent with my other changes. In any case, the after revision is the right-side column. In any case, trunc() and floor() are the same, but int() is ambiguous. It simply means conversion to integer, which could be rounding or truncating. Wish I could get TeX-rendering working... - [[User:Zhen Lin|刘 (劉) 振霖]] 09:40, 12 Feb 2005 (GMT)

== Is this formula accurate? ==

When using the formula

Chance = floor (((( TotalHP * 4 ) - ( CurrentHP * 2 )) * CatchRate ) / TotalHP ) + Status + 1

with Pokémon with high catch rates (ex. Pidgey and Rattata), the formula says that there should be about a 200% chance to catch a Pidgey at 100% HP. But there isn't a 200% chance or even a 100% chance. I caught 5 Pokémon on Route 1 of FireRed without weakening any of them and I used 15 Pokéballs. Despite the sample size, the fact that the Pokémon escaped even once is enough to raise concern about the formula. Any other thoughts on the matter? -Wild Eep

:Experimental data isn't the same as theoretical results. But then again, methinks you might be misinterpreting the results of using this formula. The formula does not return a percentage, it returns a number, and in order to capture a Pokémon, the randomly generated number between 0 and 255 (or possibly a higher number than that, say, 511) has to be below the number you obtain from this formula. But I'm not the game mechanics expert. - [[User:Zhen Lin|振霖]][[User talk:Zhen Lin|T]] 02:16, 25 November 2005 (CST)

Hmm. . . using the formula for any pokémon at any level with full HP and no status ailments with a catch rate of 255 gives an output of 511. Every site I could find has the exact same formula, and they all say the random number is between 0-255. Those that site sources site [[user:Meowth346|Meowth346]] as their source, so maybe he knows, or can find out. [[User:Slim|Slim]] 15:54, 29 November 2005 (CST)

:Indeed, there seems to be something off with either this formula or the listed CatchRates. Trying to catch a Pokemon simply by chucking a normal Pokeball at it (that is, no damage done, no status changes) simplifies as so:

:Chance = floor (Poké Ball * (((( TotalHP * 4 ) - ( CurrentHP * 2 )) * CatchRate ) / TotalHP ) + Status + 1)

:Chance = floor (1 * (((( TotalHP * 4 ) - ( TotalHP * 2 )) * CatchRate ) / TotalHP ) + 0 + 1)

:Chance = floor ((( TotalHP * 2 * CatchRate ) / TotalHP ) + 1)

:Chance = floor (( 2 * CatchRate ) + 1)

:For any CatchRate of 128 or higher, Chance is at least 257. The random number between 0 and 255 this is compared to will always be less than this, and as a result any Pokemon with a CatchRate of 128 or higher should always be caught simply by chucking a Pokeball at it. Yet this does not seem to be the case -- you can't always catch an Abra this way, despite them having a CatchRate of 200. This should give them a Chance of 401, and thus a 100% catch rate. [[User:Wild Eep|Wild Eep]] and [[User:Slim|Slim]] seem to have noticed the same thing. [[User:Opaopa13|Opaopa13]] 05:12, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

::I just noticed something -- note the following line in the article:
:::'''CurrentHP''' is either the wild Pokémon's current HP, or if its current HP is greater than 255, use ''floor ( '''CurrentHP''' / 4)''.
::It doesn't make sense to simply replace '''CurrentHP''' with ''floor ( '''CurrentHP''' / 4)'' -- that would make for a very strange function, where a Pokemon with 256 HP would be easier to catch than one with 68. Replacing all of ''('''CurrentHP''' * 2 )'' just makes the problem worse. This suggests a typographical error somewhere in either the formula or its explanation.

::I had a hunch, and replaced ''(( '''TotalHP''' * 4 ) - ( '''CurrentHP''' * 2 ))'' with ''(( '''TotalHP''' / 4 ) - ( '''CurrentHP''' / 2 ))''. Unfortunately, that's not right either -- according to that forumla, a Pokemon above 50% health will have a negative Chance value and thus can NEVER be caught. We know that is not the case. However, I suspect something along those lines is the solution. Perhaps one of those multiplications is supposed to be a division instead. Is there any healthy chunk of experimental data to look at? [[User:Opaopa13|Opaopa13]] 05:24, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

The sensible thing to do is to ask someone who knows how to use a debugger/disassembler to investigate this. Unfortunately, the only person I know who can do this is pika. - [[User:Zhen Lin|振霖]][[User talk:Zhen Lin|T]] 06:57, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Examining an emulated copy of Pokemon Red, I did, indeed, find it impossible to NOT catch any Rattata or Pidgey I threw a Pokeball at. I was more than ready to believe this formula were true. But, as Opaopa13 said, we know it isn't, because anyone who has played the Red or Blue versions knows Abra is not so easy to catch.

Interestingly, I tried the same thing on a Pidgey in an emulated copy of the Gold version (throwing a ball at it when it was at full health), and failed to capture it until my third try.

I JUST DON'T KNOW WHAT TO BELIEVE! - Pineapple

:It would be easy to explain this if Abra's catch rate was just wrong, but the catch rates must have been data-mined, so that's out. Allow me to be completely speculative here, but perhaps it's something like a rare few Pokemon having an additional chance to escape capture? Or certain catch rates that are influenced by what badges you have? It would be odd to have something like that when the programmers could just alter something's catch rate instead, though...

:Well, we _know_ we get the wrong results for Abra. I'm guessing there was some minor typo somewhere, or else some minor modifier to the formula we aren't aware of.

:On a side-note, I'm still really confused by the "if CurrentHP > 256, use (CurrentHP / 4) instead" thing. I just can't imagine any reason, technical or modelling-wise, where "use CurrentHP = 255" doesn't work just as well or better. Or at least divide by 2! (Pokemon HP never exceeds 1024, right? Thinking in terms of the number of bits it takes to represent these numbers...). [[User:Opaopa13|Opaopa13]] 19:22, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

I think, we should just remove the formula from the page until we can get some authoritative analysis, or otherwise from experimental data. - [[User:Zhen Lin|振霖]][[User talk:Zhen Lin|T]] 06:17, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

I strongly suspect that the only problem with the formula on the site is the 2. I know that's how the old equation simplifies, so the original was probably off as well. 1+INT(B*(2-P)*C+S) makes perfect sense. Then a Pidgey or other Pokemon with a catch rate of 255 is guaranteed to be caught, since at full health and no ailments, you get 256. Any number from 0-255 will be lower than that, so you'll always catch it. On the other hand, a legendary Pokemon with 1/10th of its health left, paralyzed, with an ultra ball thrown an it, is 1+INT(2*1.9*3+5), or 17. 17/256 (since it's a less than roll, not less than or equal to) is about 6.6% (1 in 15). That seems about right, given that it's taken an average of 15-20 ultra balls for me to catch most of the legendaries. The current formula says it would be 28/256, or 10.9% (about 1 in 9), which is definitely not right. Easiest way to test would be to repeatedly try catching something with a catch rate around 120, using a standard ball, and see if it happens about half the time. [[User:Arrkhal|Arrkhal]] 03:50, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

== The correct formula ==

Apparently someone at Smogon found an extremely complex formula on a Japanese website. A good friend of mine simplified it and it seems to be 100% Accurate:

( ( 1 - CurHP * 2 / ( MaxHP * 3 ) ) * Catch * Ball * Status ) / 256

Status:
*1 for Normal
*1.5 for Poisoned, Paralyzed, or Burned
*2 for Asleep or Frozen

Examples:
*A level 2 Rattata, with 13/13 HP, catch rate 255, using a Pokeball. No status effects.
**( ( 1 - 13 * 2 / ( 13 * 3 ) ) * 255 * 1 * 1 ) / 256
**= 0.33203125
**~ 33%
*A level 70 Regigigas, with 1/234 HP, frozen, catch rate 3, using a Dusk ball.
**( ( 1 - 1 * 2 / ( 234 * 3 ) ) * 3 * 4 * 2 ) / 256
**= 0.093482906
**~ 9%

[[User:DanPMK|MK]] 05:51, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
:This does appear to be more reasonable, however, I would like to see this so-called "extremely complex" formula. There may be some rounding going on which affects the precision of the results. - [[User:Zhen Lin|振霖]][[User talk:Zhen Lin|T]] 12:05, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
::The original site had gone down, but thank god for Google cache. [http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:2tdg8lVDQ8wJ:no2.pic.bz/document/ball.html+http://no2.pic.bz/document/ball.html&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us Here]. It appears my friend was a bit exaggerating when he said complex; it's actually just a tad redundant. He reduced it to a simpler form is all. Cheers. [[User:DanPMK|MK]] 08:04, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
:::As I suspected, there is more to it. It seems that the formula result is interpreted in two different ways depending on what the value is. - [[User:Zhen Lin|振霖]][[User talk:Zhen Lin|T]] 12:25, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

== Formula is nowhere near correct ==

I just tried catching a Lv. 13 Feebas at full health (30 HP). I threw three dusk balls at it (while in the cavern, of course), and they all broke. On the fourth try I was able to catch it. It has a catch rate of 255, so according to this formula I have maybe a 400% chance of catching it at full health. Even going by the catch rate alone, I should have had a 100% chance of catching it. This wasn't an atypical situation either. I tried catching a few more before and after this one, and I generally wasn't able to capture them until I weakened them (I caught maybe one or two without hurting it). Once I threw an ultra ball at one, and it immediately broke. I think the pokemon's HP ratio definitely has a lot more to do with catching it than what this formula suggests.

If there are any sources on that other function that someone submitted in here (I don't know how to reply to comments, sorry :<), then that would be really nice. But I tried that equation on the above-mentioned feebas and got (1-(30*2)/(30*3))*255*4*1)/256 (the pokeball page on here says that the dusk ball is 4x in caverns, and Wikipedia says it's twice as good as an ultraball, so I'm going with 4x), which equals 340/256, or 1.328125. This is still above a 100% catch rate on something that seemed like it was maybe 50%. Even going with the assumption that the dusk ball is only 3x better than a pokeball, I still got 255/256, which awfully close to 100%. So unless the dusk ball didn't have its 3x/4x effect (maybe from me fishing in the cavern instead of walking in the cavern?), I don't think this function is true either.

--[[User:Stele007|Stele007]] 18:59, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
:Were you surfing by any chance? There has to be some way to explain this. Feebas is extremely easy to capture regardless. My friend caught several using Quick balls (4x for the first 5 turns) immediately at the start of battle and none of them missed. If you were, perhaps the Dusk balls did not work because of surfing. I know they do work while fishing... [[User:DanPMK|MK]] 06:25, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
:And by several I mean over a dozen. [[User:DanPMK|MK]] 06:28, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

==Safari Zone==

There's something I'd like to ask. In the [[Safari Zone]], you can throw bait and mud in [[Generation IV]]. These are said to make Pokémon easier to catch. However, does anybody know of how EXACTLY do they change the catch rate (Or make them easier to catch somehow)? Thank you. - [[User:JMS|JMS]] 21:27, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
:Actually, I think they alter the percent chance that the Pokémon'll run for it/accuracy of the ball. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]][[User:TTEchidna/GSDS|GSDS!]]''' 22:53, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

::Actually, the equation is posted on the Japanese wikipage for Capture Rate:
::Solve for S (S = Safari)

::S=(Capture Rate×100)÷1275×Rock Compensation÷Food Compensation

::Rock Compensation = Times rock/mud is thrown at Pokémon × 2
::Food Compensation = Times food is thrown at Pokémon × 2

::Then solve for a, which is a special equation for this time around:

::a=(S×1275)÷100

::Just keep in mind that the more mud/rocks you throw, the easier it is to capture, but the easier it is to run away. The more food you throw, the harder it is to capture but it'll stay around longer. - [[User:Gimmetokyo|GimmeTOKYO]]

== Trivia... ==

''The appearances of Pokémon such as Nosepass, Tropius, Carnivine, etc., would suggest that their catch rate is low.''
What the hell?!?!? '''{{Colored link|:User:Origamiguy|ff8000|Lord}} of {{Colored link|:User_talk:Origamiguy|ff8000|Ori}}{{Colored link|Special:Contributions/Origamiguy|ff8000|gami}}''' 18:44, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

:Yeah... I don't know what that means, either. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 18:49, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

::remove it because it makes no sense? i had thought dialga had a low catch rate when i got the game, and it turns out to be 30, quite high for a legendary... '''{{Colored link|:User:Origamiguy|ff8000|Lord}} of {{Colored link|:User_talk:Origamiguy|ff8000|Ori}}{{Colored link|Special:Contributions/Origamiguy|ff8000|gami}}''' 18:50, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
:::I know what it's saying: They look like the kind of Pokémon that would have a lower catch rate than they actually do. That's still based on the player's conjecture and probably not worth noting. --[[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] |[[User talk:Fabu-Vinny|Talk Page]]| 18:54, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

What I believe it was saying is that the rarity of these pokémon would suggest they have a low catch rate, just like one of a kind pokémon do. However, they actually have quite high catch rates. Does this seem right? [[User:Da Rammo|Da Rammo]] 06:34, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

: I put a note in the lede to try to address this last interpretation. [[User:AySz88|AySz88]] 11:50, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

== Easier explanation? ==

I think there should be an easier explanation included in this article, something of a tl;dr section. To me, this is all mathematical mumbo-jumbo, and I commonly fail anything and everything algebraic. I could honestly care less how the game determines how a pokemon is caught, I just know that I need to lower the HP of the wild Pokémon and possibly inflict a status problem on it to catch it. Also, on major thing that's missing from the article is it doesn't explain if a higher number for a catch rate is better or worse. It may be a dumb question to ask (but I don't honestly get it, either) but you quite often have to write for the five-year-old poké-tards that will be here.
:Higher number for catch rate increases likelihood of capture. It's why Mewtwo's is 3. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 04:39, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

My brain hurts... too much math... [[User:Diachronos|Diachronos]] 16:55, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Will you please make this article in a way that actually makes sense? It tells me nothing helpful. [[User:Alakazam 2|Alakazam 2]]
:I agree, a simplified, even if less informative, version of this article would probably be more helpful to a lot more users.[[User:Gastly's mama|Gastly's mama]] 15:36, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

: I tried to write a more accessible way to interpret the formula. Also see Reworking the ''a'' term below.... [[User:AySz88|AySz88]] 11:51, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

== CatchRate Calculator ==

I have written a small catch-rate calculator program. You put in details of the opponent's HP,Max HP, Base CatchRate,status ailment, and choose which ball you are using (along with ball-specific factors), and it tells you the chances of catching the pokemon. Should i include a link on the page? '''{{Colored link|:User:Origamiguy|f80|Lord}} of {{Colored link|:User_talk:Origamiguy|f80|Ori}}{{Colored link|User:Origamiguy/Mudkipz|08f|gami}}''' 12:06, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
:I think so. Where does all this come from anyways? O_O [[User:Sivart345|--Sivart]][[User talk:Sivart345|3]][[Special:Contributions/Sivart345|4]][[User:Firestorm|'''5''']] 01:58, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

== Heavy Ball ==

How does it work into the formula if the ball bonus adds instead of multiplying? Does it add before or after the status bonus? --[[User:Kaoz|Kaoz]] 16:29, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
:Order of operations. Multiplication first. [[User:Ht14|'''''ht''''']][[User talk:Ht14|''14'']] 16:42, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
::Are you sure? Because if it works just like I think you're saying, you just replace the Ball Multiplier with a flat "+30" rate (or whatever technically applies). I calculated the catch rate of Groudon using a Heavy Ball VS a Great Ball, and the Great Ball outperformed the specialty Poké Ball. If that's the case, Heavy Balls are pretty useless.--[[User:Purimpopoie|Purimpopoie]] 13:33, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
:: I doubt that "order of operations" applies here; it's relatively easy to just apply the +30 before the multiplications coding-wise (much like using parenthesis). One would need to look at the game code somehow, probably, to see for certain. [[User:AySz88|AySz88]] 12:07, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

== Luxury or Friendly? ==

Which is more effective? [[User:Ht14|'''''ht''''']][[User talk:Ht14|''14'']] 01:05, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
:it depends, i know squat about the catch rate, but i do know the luxury ball increases how fast the pokemon's friendship raises while the friendly(?) ball gives an immediate boost... by how much i'm not quite sure. - [[User:Geomexis|Geomexis]] 12:59, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
::Luxury Balls increase the rate at which your pokemon becomes friendly from actions as outlined in the [[Happiness]] article. Friend Balls automatically set the pokemon's happiness to 200 (instead of the usual 70) when caught. Both poke balls have a catch rate of 1x. Max happiness is 255 and happiness-based evolutions happen at 220+ so usually the Friend Ball will get you there quickly for cheap. ~[[User:mjblink|mjblink]]{{Unsigned|mjblink}}

== Reworking the ''a'' term ==

In every location in this article that I can tell, it would be clearer if ''a'' were already divided by 255, i.e. substituting ''a''/255 = ''a''/(2^8 - 1) in each formula with a new variable. (Even that odd-looking 16711680 is 255 * 65536 .) Then ''a'' simply becomes equal to the approximation to ''p'' and there is an obvious intuitive meaning to it. I used this idea in the new lede, and it'd probably be clearer to do this in the rest of the article as well.

Is there some reason why ''a'' was defined this way that I don't know of? [[User:AySz88|AySz88]] 11:39, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

== Trivia on HP ==

There's a bit in the "Trivia" section about high-HP Pokémon being easier to catch at 1 HP than lower-HP ones. This is true, but it also states that "Pokémon with higher HP stats (such as Chansey) are easier to capture when their HP is reduced, despite low catch rates compared to others." But there isn't a big-enough effect to overwhelm the catch rate except at very very low HP levels. The equation in the current article can be reorganized this way:
a = catch_rate * ball_bonus * status_bonus * (1 - 2/3 * (currentHP / maxHP) )
And at 1 HP:
a = catch_rate * ball_bonus * status_bonus * (1 - 2/(3 * maxHP))
And comparing the HP penalties at 1 HP:
* 10 HP max: 1 - 2/(3 * 10) = 1 - 2/30 = 6.7% penalty (i.e. 0.933x)
* 20 HP max: 1 - 2/(3 * 20) = 1 - 2/60 = 3.3% penalty
* 100HP max: 1 - 2/(3 * 100) = 1 - 2/300 = 0.66% penalty
* 200HP max: 1 - 2/(3 * 200) = 1 - 2/600 = 0.33% penalty
... Once you get past 20ish HP, shaving off bits of that last 3% of (multiplicative) penalty is pretty negligible, equivalent to around 7 points of catch rate at most (3% of 255). [[User:AySz88|AySz88]] 10:40, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

== Generation I? ==

In Generation I, the mechanisms are somewhat different. For example, the number of shakes doesn't seem to be determined randomly and a Poké Ball can even entirely miss a target. Do the Gen. I games also use a completely different formula or does it work the same way as currently described in the article? {{unsigned|Socob}}
:The formula is definitely different in Generation I - I think Pokémon with very high catch rate (like Pidgey) were more difficult to catch, and Pokémon with very low catch rate (like Articuno) were easier to catch. By the way, the number of shakes has not been determined randomly since at least the beginning of Generation IV. [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 16:06, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
::I thought so. It would be nice if we had some information about this, but I don't think that's very easy to get. About the shaking - I'm not sure if that's also what you meant, but what I was referring to by "not randomly" in Generation I is that a Ball will always shake the same amount of times on a Pokémon as long as you don't change its HP/status condition (unless it's caught). -- [[User:Socob|Socob]] ( [[User_talk:Socob|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Socob|Contribs]] ) 10:22, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
:::Actually, I just thought of this: You can try asking Pokémon ROM hacking communities about Generation I catch rate mechanics. [http://www.pokecommunity.com The PokéCommunity] is one of the few Pokémon sites that has a dedicated sub-forum for ROM hacking discussion. [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 19:32, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
:I have put up a complete analysis of the R/B/Y capture algorithm on [http://www.dragonflycave.com/rbycapture.aspx my website], based on the actual code. Something about it should at least probably be included on the page. [[User:Dragonfree|Dragonfree]] 09:00, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

== Trivia ==
Somewhere else on this site, I read that the lowest possible catch rate is 3 since if it were any lower, the Master ball would have a chance of failing. http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/List_of_Pokemon_by_catch_rate#Trivia [[User:KurosakisTwin|KurosakisTwin]] 17:22, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
:False. The Master Ball bypasses the formula entirely, so even if the catch rate were 0, the it would still catch the Pokémon. --[[User:A magical me|a_magical_me]] 23:09, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
::How do you know that? As far as I know, the Master Ball simply uses a value of 255 for the 'BonusBall' variable in the formula.
::With this, if all the other factors in the formula multiplied would result in a number less than one, 'a' would be less than 255 and thus, the Pokémon would have a chance of escaping. Quoting from the article, "The minimum value for 'a' (for a Pokémon with full health) would be ⅓ × catch rate." Since the result of the formula without the BonusBall component has to be at least one for the Master Ball to work reliably, this means that the catch rate must at least be 3 (as ⅓ × 3 = 1).
::This seems to be reasonable evidence to me as to why we've never seen catch rates lower than 3. -- [[User:Socob|Socob]] ( [[User_talk:Socob|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Socob|Contribs]] ) 12:29, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Also, I'm pretty sure that the game wouldn't make an exception for the master ball. That would result in a lot more code, and therefore it's just easier to not make more code and make the lowest catch rate 3 so that the Master Ball can catch anything. [[User:KurosakisTwin|KurosakisTwin]] 09:01, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Socob, I know because it's what [http://upokecenter.com/games/rs/guides/catchrate.php UPC says] and it's what [http://no2.pic.bz/document/ball.html the reference] in [[Catch rate#References|the article]] says. Also because I have read the relevant code in both Diamond and HeartGold, and I can tell you that the Master Ball is simply not implemented in the way you suggest.
:::: KurosakisTwin, it does not require "a lot more code", just a couple lines—a small <code>if</code> statement—and is what any sane programmer would do.
:::: And here is something to think about: the lowest catch rate has been 3 since the beginning, way back in Red and Blue, when a [http://upokecenter.com/games/rby/guides/catchrate.php completely different algorithm] was used. --[[User:A magical me|a_magical_me]] 07:33, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
:::::Even UPC and the reference have their sources (which might be false), and even if they aren't, no matter how it's actually calculated in the games' codes, the Master Ball works without fail, so the statements on UPC don't necessarily indicate the actual calculations.
:::::Still, if you have viewed the code as you say, there's not much I can argue against that. All of what I've said above was, of course, simply evidence that pointed in the direction of a Master Ball with a value of 255. Naturally, the catch rates of 3 might be there to prevent "a" from being below 1 for entirely different reasons. If "a" is actually rounded down to an integer (which is actually stated in the article), then it would have to be at least 1 for the formula to work. However, this seems strange considering your last statement about the algorithm in Generation I. I haven't looked at it closely, but I guess it also needed catch rates of at least 3. I wonder, though, why the developers would go through the trouble of changing the algorithm, but leaving in the necessity of those catch rates of three or higher.
:::::Long story short: You looked at the code, I didn't, so you're probably right. -- [[User:Socob|Socob]] ( [[User_talk:Socob|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Socob|Contribs]] ) 15:28, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
== Critical Capture ==
Should we write about critical capture, of black and white, here?--[[User:Kantenoh|Kantenoh]] 21:56, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

I belive from what i've read and when it happened to me,that there's a not so small chance (I don't know how high), that the pokeball will, when thrown, let out a woosh (a higher pitched on than normaly), absorb a pokemon, let out a metalic sound (ping a little like its captured), shake(a fast shake not a roll) in mid-air, fall down like usualy, then shake only once (not 3 times like usually), and have because of that idk probably about 3 times the capture ratio i suppose.
[[User:Codebracker|Codebracker]]

== Trainer pokemon level ==

I've been thinking about it for quite some time now, but pokemon are easier to capture depending on the level of the pokemon you battle it with.

I tried to catch a pokemon with a lv.5 and lv.8 pokemon and i couldn't catch it with ultraballs in 5 tries, than i swaped it for lv.75 pokemon and it worked on first try.

So could the level of the trainer's pokemon also apply somewhere in the formula?
[[User:Codebracker|Codebracker]]

:5 tries is not NEARLY enough trials to draw any kind of conclusion from. If you really want to test this, you're going to have to set up a comprehensive experiment and run it thousands of times. Alternatively, someone who has read the source code can tell you for sure. --[[User:Toksyuryel|Toksyuryel]] 04:40, 9 January 2011 (UTC)
::I haven't read the code, but the people who wrote this article have. The only time your Pokémon's level is factored in is when you are using a [[Level Ball]]. This was actually recently brought up on the forums. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 04:41, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

== Critical Capture Rate ==

What is the rate of a Critical Capture in Generation V? --[[User:Nathan2055|Nathan2055]][[User Talk:Nathan2055|talk]] 21:22, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
That's what I want to know in Gen 6.--[[User:Hydreigonfan1|Hydreigonfan1]] ([[User talk:Hydreigonfan1|talk]]) 14:02, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

== High or low? ==

It should say in the very beginning whether a high or low number makes it easier/harder for a Pokémon to catch. I don't even think it's ever in the article. - [[User:Colorshade|Colorshade]] 22:20, 13 April 2011 (UTC)
: Good suggestion; I've added that. :) [[User:AySz88|AySz88]] 17:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

== Critical capture ambiguity ==

In the Critical Capture section right now, it says "A random number is generated, and if it is less than the modified value, a critical capture occurs." But what range is the random number in? [[User:AySz88|AySz88]] 20:38, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
:It seems sensible for the range to be 0 to 255 inclusive, since that is the base of the modified value. [[User:Naokohiro|Naokohiro]] 23:54, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

== Catch chance ==
Can anybody tell me whether the chance to catch a Pokémon in Generation I is equal to them in Generation II (and the others) or the chance is different? E.g. I throw an ordinary ball to a full-healthy Weedle. Is the chance to catch it in all generations identically (according to [[Weedle]] 33,3%) despite the fact the capture methods are different? I'm sorry again for my bad English! --[[User:LaBumm|LaBumm]] 04:29, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

== Doubt Generation III Algorithm ==
I'm starting to doubt the generation III algorithm. These are my findings in FireRed. I calculated for a paralyzed lvl 50 Moltres at 1 HP (exactly 1 HP due to endure) with a maximum HPmax of 165 (courtesy of Pokemon.Marriland.com) and a capture rate of 3 with an Ultra Ball. 
A = (3x165-2x1)x3x2/3/156x1.5 = 8 (rounded down) 
B = (2^16-1)xA^(1/4)/(255)^(1/4) = 27581 (rounded down) 
This gives a success rate of: 
(27581 / 65535)^4 = 0.031 (rounded down) or 3.1% 
At the moment I have thrown 400 (FOUR HUNDRED!) Ultra Balls, and still not captured it. 
The chance of that happening would be (1-0.031)^400 = 0.000002902 or 1:344550 
Please tell me I made a mistake in my calculation. It lies rather far outside the normal 0.05 error margin for experimental testing of hypotheses. 
I redid the same sort of testing for Zapdos, I didn't calculate my exact chances, this time I didn't manage to catch it in 200 tries. 
[[User:Ghostbird|Ghostbird]] 00:11, 25 November 2011 (UTC) EDITED: [[User:Ghostbird|Ghostbird]] 12:41, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

I retried catching Moltres and this time I caught it after 15-20 tries. (I wasn't counting) 
The only differences I knew of:
* I had defeated team rocket in Saffron and Giovanni in Viridian's gym.
* I was facing it with a pokémon over lvl 50. (However I caught Articuno using a lvl 30-ish pokemon)
* It was at more than 1 HP (he had a two pixel health bar).

I retried catching Zapdos and this time I did 200 fruitless tries. I noticed that though it had very little health left, it almost always broke free at the first check. 
Something that you should know:
* I've been using a state reload system to quickly retry catching when the capture failed. (Otherwise these capture tests, which require as much attempts as possible, are infeasible.)

I managed to Capture Zapdos on try 41 after reloading the original save (not a state save), (re)initiating combat and then using the reload state method. This time it generally broke free much later, often passing two shake checks and only breaking free at the last check, until I captured it. 

Hypothesis:
* There's something that influences catch rate, which kicks in before you are at the [Use|Cancel] screen after selecting the capture device (Ultra Ball). 
[[User:Ghostbird|Ghostbird]] 17:55, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

* I believe your problem is the fact that you are using the same save state over and over. Typically, random number generators (RNG) initialize with a single random number called the seed and derive subsequent random values using a mathematical formula. When you save a state on your emulator, you are also saving the current state of the RNG used. So theoretically, you are asking the RNG for a random number in the same exact state each time, resulting in the same result every time you reload. I think this is why you managed to capture your Zapados some time after reloading the original save (new random seed). I'm not sure exactly how you used the reload state method after reinitializing combat. Did you have to hard reload the game 41 times or did you reload once and use the save state 41 times? Please elaborate on this. [[User:Invgamma|Invgamma]] 20:45, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

== Investigation of the RNG ==

I recently thought about the specific cases where the catch formula does not seem to describe the behavior of certain Pokemon. On review, I noticed that the catch formula assumes that every random number generated is completely independent of every other random number. If the random number were using some sort of non-deterministic input to calculate a new seed every time a number is requested, this certainly would be true; however, this is normally not the case.

Consider the case of an encounter with a rare Pokemon with a somewhat high catch rate. Assume that the game finds a new random seed whenever an encounter is supposed to happen (probably sometime before) and uses that number to both determine the Pokemon encountered and to seed further random numbers. When you ask the RNG to generate the next couple random numbers, they are completely dependent on the algorithm used and the seed. With a rare Pokemon, the number of random seeded values that result in an encounter with it is sizable, but smaller than a common Pokemon. If the RNG is not reseeded, the number of possible scenarios (with strings of random numbers) greatly decreases. In this case, it could simply be a mathematical oddity (of the algorithm) where the select few seeds that allows an encounter with a rare Pokemon has subsequent random values that allow it to easily be caught (or even possibly more difficult to catch).

If this is the case, then the rarity of each Pokemon can easily influence catch probabilities by "shaping" the subsequent numbers (by pure mathematical accident). Some random values might even be impossible for, let's say, the first pokeball thrown right after an encounter of a rarer Pokemon.
[[User:Invgamma|Invgamma]] 21:02, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

* Just ran a couple of scenarios on an emulated version of Pokemon White. If I load save states right before encountering a Pokemon (a legendary that you can approach), you can get different random seeds for the battle (first action resulted differently each time). This probably means that the seed for the battle is determined based on conditions right when you encounter the pokemon. [[User:Invgamma|Invgamma]] 23:58, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

:Just to let you know, I've done the investigation already :) Check Smogon's RNG Research thread[http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3698857&postcount=765] to get filled in on how the game seeds the battle RNG and (approximately) does the majority of battle RNG operations. RNG is only reseeded between battles. Every game uses 4 random numbers for the shake calculations, the only thing new in gen 5 is the critical capture calc.
:First it calculates if critical capture, then the shake/capture values. If result < CV, pass check. Total of 4 for regular catch, 1 for CC.
:Come ask about the battle RNG in IRC, synirc #smogonwifi

== A comment on Critical Capture ==

Having read through the article and especially the section describing the critical capture, it occurred to me that since it usually uses three shake checks, it is cubing the base probability of capture. By only using one shake check, it does not get cubed, which is why it allows capture to occur easier. However, the amount it increases capture rate is dependent on how difficult it is to capture in the first place. Another way to think about what I previously said is to take any specific set of conditions (a species in the wild, how much HP it has out of its total HP, and if it has any status ailments) and calculate the probability of catching it with any one type of ball. You could then take that final probability and, assuming that the same exact conditions and ball are used, a critical capture will increase the chances of capture to the cube root of the capture probability without a critical capture. This relationship means that the lower the capture rate is in specific conditions, the more difference a critical will make in the probability of catching it.

A couple examples would be if a legendary pokemon is attempting to be caught in specific conditions that would create a normal capture probability of 1%, if it is instead a critical capture, that will increase to a 21.5% capture probability. However, at higher capture probability this difference is much smaller. If there is an easily captured pokemon at low health, with a status ailment, and the normal capture probability is 90%, a critical capture in the same circumstances would mean a 96.5% capture probability.

Is this worth adding into the article, or am I just having too much fun with the math?[[User:Morranr|Mor'ranr]] 16:07, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

:It would be cool to see the adjusted probability of that helping, but I don't think it would be one dimensional because of the different critical capture rates.
: If critical capture calc passes, shake check once; else thrice.
:[[User:Kaphotics|Kaphotics]] 00:04, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

:I definitely think it is useful to point out the relationship, and the difference in effect between Pokémon with low rates and high rates. But it might be better to use "realistic" numbers for any examples in the article (i.e. 3/255 instead of 1%). [[User:AySz88|AySz88]] 05:07, 24 February 2012 (UTC)
:<s>Wait, shouldn't it be fourth root? The article says there's needs to be one shake check to pass instead of ''four'' normally. [[User:AySz88|AySz88]] 05:14, 24 February 2012 (UTC)</s>
:: Oops, no, was accidentally looking at a different generation. [[User:AySz88|AySz88]] 07:40, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
::: Fourth roots and third roots never happen in game. The b equation listed is just a probability of you catching (ie all the shake compares lumped together). It does a*0x100 > rand(0,65535) for a pass shake calc. 4 times for gen 3-4, 3x for gen 5 after criticalcapture. That's the one gripe I have about this page, the mathematical approximations aren't what the game does. [[User:Kaphotics|Kaphotics]] 19:22, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
:::: I'm not sure what you're saying here. Yes, the algorithm used for a shake check is not literally a third or fourth root. But while it's nice to document the exact algorithm somewhere, it's probably much more useful to explain the practical results of the algorithm - thus why there are the approximations used in the lede (and occasionally sprinkled elsewhere). You can be sure that when the game designers were playing with formulas, they were doing it in general terms, not caring about whether the RNG was 16-bit or whether a division rounded up or down. The algorithms in the code are crafted to follow their intent. (The difference is famously illustrated in that [https://www.google.com/search?q=pokemon+serious+business old "Pokémon: Serious Business" image] that had an old version of this article - indeed, it's what inspired me to craft the new lede in the first place.) Let's keep our audience in mind.
:::: Though, that does bring up something else: it might be a good idea to more clearly separate the exact algorithms from the approximate interpretations, instead of the hodgepodge mix in the article currently. [[User:AySz88|AySz88]] 05:23, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

:::: Kaphotics (or, anyone), could you elaborate on "It does a*0x100 > rand(0,65535) for a pass shake calc."? I don't understand how multiplying by 256 is equivalent to 65536 / (255/''a'')(1/4) as listed in the article. —[[User:Naokohiro|Naokohiro]] 10:55, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
::::: When I wrote that I wasn't thinking clearly, it does keep the 4th root and such. For every check it does - rand(0xFFFF) and compares it to b. If it is less than b, it passes the wiggle calc and checks again until it either fails or the wiggles result in capture. [[User:Kaphotics|Kaphotics]] 17:45, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

== Generation V -- Interesting Probabilities ==

Since we are still getting the 4th root of the initial probability a and doing 3 shake checks, that makes the chance of capture when the critical capture chance is 0 equal to a3/4.

This takes what would normally be a linear probability always equal to a and puts it on an exponential curve.

If we have more than 30 in the dex, the probability now changes. There is a (a*m)*a1/4 chance of getting a critical capture and then succeeding in capture. Let m be the multiplier for critical capture which is based on the amount caught in the Pokédex. There's also a (1 - a*m)*a3/4 chance of getting a normal capture. So, the total chance of getting a capture is now (a*m)*a1/4 + (1 - a*m)*a3/4 (with m=0, 0.5, 1, 1.5, 2, or 2.5 respectively).

What this does is make an increasingly steeper curve the higher the value of m, but the curve always starts at (0, 0) and ends at (1, 1).
Actually, in the higher values for m, the curve actually gets so steep that it begins to increase a by more than 100% for part of the curve, which suggests a higher chance of capture when the Pokémon isn't completely at its weakest.
I just thought this information was interesting. It's almost like catching Pokémon has its own level up system. [[User:Naokohiro|Naokohiro]] 00:55, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

:Is this something worth mentioning in the article? —[[User:Naokohiro|Naokohiro]] 00:58, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
::I haven't had Critical Capture debugged, but I noticed that what is currently the going theory on the page wasn't matching up with the battle RNG. The critical capture section is really... empty, so why not? If you want to put it in the article be sure to have an image of it! [[User:Kaphotics|Kaphotics]] 17:45, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

==Gen V Shake Rate==
Isn't the Gen V shake rate listed functionally the same as the Gen IV one? It seems slightly redundant having both formulas up, claiming to be different...[[User:Unknowen900|Unknowen900]] ([[User talk:Unknowen900|talk]]) 08:33, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

== Level ball ==

The formula seems to be flawed for the Level Ball. I'm playing HeartGold and I was trying to catch a level 4 Aipom (full health) using my level 58 Crobat. According the the formula, I should have had a 140% chance of catch the Aipom with a Level Ball. I threw 3 or 4 level balls at the Aipom and all of them broke. I've generally found most Pokémon to be more difficult to catch than this formula and their catch rates indicated that they should be, but the Level Ball, in particular, doesn't seem to increase catch rates significantly, if at all. [[User:RS89|RS89]] ([[User talk:RS89|talk]]) 01:59, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
:The number is 140, Then it generates a random number from 0-255, and it does something else. It's not a percentage. I think. --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 02:21, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
::Nevermind. I just realized I missed a step. [[User:RS89|RS89]] ([[User talk:RS89|talk]]) 02:39, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

== The Formula Simplified (as much as possible) ==
Here's the simple explanation (in Gen V): Your chances to catch a Pokemon are based on 5 things normally (6, if you count capture power, but that is not a normal thing).

'''1st. Species Specific Catch Chance:''' Meaning some pokemon are super easy to catch and come are super hard. The only way to look get this is to just look up the Pokemon, it's Catch Rate is listed in it's info box (on a scale of 0 to 255). So, if it has a 255, you will catch it.
:Pretty much a 100% chance. If it is a 45 (like Celibi) then you only have a 6% chance to catch it before any other factors.

'''2nd. It's Current Health:''' If the creature is at full HP, than your normal chances are cut to 1/3. This means that a 255 would be a 33% chance with a Pokeball at full HP and a Celibi would be a 2% chance. This continues to decrease all the way to 1 HP,
:which gives you between 99% and 99.9% of your normal. Meaning the HP basically no longer negatively affects your catch chance at 1 HP.

'''3rd. The Type of Ball Used:''' You have a normal chance with a Pokeball. Your chance is multiplied by 1.5x for a Great Ball, 2x for an Ultra Ball, 3x for a Repeat or Net Ball, 3.5x for Dive or Dusk Ball, 4x for a Timer or Nest Ball (at max), and 5x for a Quick Ball.
:These all assume you are using them correctly (i.e. Dusk in caves, Repeat on owned Pokemon, and Quick in round 1). Timer and Nest balls can multiply your chances by everything from 1x to 4x (including 3.2134x or some other random number).
:Nest Balls are 4x for a level 1 Pokemon, 3x for a level 11, 2x for a level 21, and 1x for everything above level 30. Timer balls are 1x in the first round, 2x after 10 rounds, 3x after 20, and 4x after 30 rounds.
:This means, if you are trying to catch a pokemon with a catch rate of 255 (easiest possible) at full HP with a Great Ball your chances would start at 100% for the 255, drop to 33% because he is at full HP, and then would increase back to 50% with a Great Ball ((((255 * .33) * 1.5) = 114.75) 114.75/255 = 0.495).
:The same Pokemon would be a 100% chance of catching it with a Quick, Dive, or Dusk Ball (also 100% with a Nest or Timer Ball at max conditions). It is still a 99% chance with a Repeat or Net Ball. It is only a 66% chance; however, with an Ultra Ball or a 50% chance with a Great Ball.
:It would be a 33% chance with a normal Pokeball (Basically normal, Great, and Ultra Balls suck).

'''4th. Status Ailments:''' This is simple, and it stacks multiplicity. Meaning if the pokemon is Paralyzed, Poisoned, or Burned then your chances are 1.5x and if it is Slept or Frozen, then your chances are 2.5x.
:So, in the above example, a 255 Pokemon (100%) at full HP (33%) using a Great Ball (1.5x) gives you a 50% chance. If that same Pokemon is Paralyzed then your chances increase to 75%. If it is Paralyzed AND Poisoned then your chances are 100%.
:Also, if it was JUST Asleep (no Poison or Paralysis) then your chances are still 100% ((255 (Catch Rate) * 0.33 (Full HP) = 84.15) (84.15 * 1.5 (Great Ball) = 126.225) (126.225 * 2.5 = 315.5625) That is higher than 255 so you have a 100% chance).

'''5th. Dark Grass:''' Basically this means that if your encounter is in Dark Grass it is harder to catch the Pokemon based on how far through the game you are. In the beginning of the game, it will further decrease the penalty for it's HP by up to half and at the end of the game you will have full chances.
:100% normal chance if you have more than 600 Completed Pokedex Entries (not just seen, but caught). You will have a 90% of your normal chance if you have between 451 and 600 completed Pokedex entries, 80% for 301 to 450 entries, 70% for 151 to 300 entries, 60% for 30 to 151 entries,
:and 50% of your normal chance if you have less than 30 completed Pokedex entries. Meaning, almost the entire game you will sit at 60% in dark grass. This means that if you have a Pokemon with a Catch Rate of 255 at full HP and you tried to catch him with a normal Pokeball then normally you have a 33% chance.
:If it happens in Dark Grass you have a 16.6% chance. If you used an Ultra Ball, normally you would have a 66% chance, in Dark Grass you would have a 33% chance. The math is a little longer to show here but ...
:Here: (250HP x3 = 750 - (250x2) = 250) <- 1st half of the HP formula. now ((250 * .5 (Dark Grass)) = 125), then (125 * 2 (Ultra Ball) = 250) and Finally ((250/(250 * 3)) = 0.333) <- 2nd half of the HP formula.

I know that is sort of long, but I hope that makes more sense.
[[User:Degrelecence|Degrelecence]] ([[User talk:Degrelecence|talk]]) 06:18, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

EDIT: Sorry forgot that whole Capture Power thing. The 6th factor is Capture Power. The catch rate is multiplied by 1.1x if Capture Power ↑ is active, 1.2x if ↑↑ is active, or 1.3x if ↑↑↑, Capture Power S, or Capture Power MAX is active. [[User:Degrelecence|Degrelecence]] ([[User talk:Degrelecence|talk]]) 06:34, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

:You said that for <30 and 30-151 the percent chances are capture in dark grass are 50% and 60% respectively, but the table provided in the article says these values are 30% and 50% at these intervals. Which one is correct? --[[User:Skit7548|Skit7548]] ([[User talk:Skit7548|talk]]) 05:28, 28 October 2013 (UTC)

== Generation V shake checks ==

The article currently states that three shake checks occur for a regular capture in the Generation V games. This is contradicted by Kaphotics on Smogon (and earlier on this page), who claims that four shake checks occur. Which is correct? [[User:Arcorann|Arcorann]] ([[User talk:Arcorann|talk]]) 08:31, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

== Critical Capture chances? ==

How rare is it to get a Critical Capture?
I'm really confused with this. We could put this on the Critical Capture section. I know the more you capture Pokemon in your Pokedex the more chance you'll catch a Pokemon and it usually always works without fail except if you don't catch Pokemon a lot. But I want to know how rare it is. I got 3 Critical Captures in 1 Day and 2 of them were one after another. How rare is it so we can put it on the Critical Capture area?--[[User:Hydreigonfan1|Hydreigonfan1]] ([[User talk:Hydreigonfan1|talk]]) 14:00, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
:It says how rare it is. To be simple: whatever number the final catch rate is, that number is multiplied by 0, 0.5, 1, 1.5, 2 or 2.5 (depending on how many Pokémon you caught), and then a random number is generated. If it's lower than the number received by multiplying final catch rate, critical capture occurs. [[User:Uploader|Uploader]] ([[User talk:Uploader|talk]]) 14:12, 19 December 2013 (UTC) PS. The only thing missing is what's the interval for that random number. The critical catch success otherwise is based on how likely you are to catch mon (and isn't a guaranteed catch unless you would catch it anyway). [[User:Uploader|Uploader]] ([[User talk:Uploader|talk]]) 14:14, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

== Generation II Shake Probability table ==

Why isn't [[Catch_rate#Generation II 2|this]] an actual table? --[[User:Det|Det]] ([[User talk:Det|talk]]) 08:36, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
:It is, actually. It just doesn't have any pretty borders. ...Also, it's arguably formatted badly (text alignment).
:I did something to it. I experimented with the styles that are on other tables on the page, but it didn't look good to me, so I kept it dead simple. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 09:27, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

== Critical Catch ==

The example can't be right. It says, that catching Kyurem with catch rate 3 with max HP and Pokéball has a probability of 0.4%, which is right. For a critical capture the value 25.03% is given, which is (0.4%)^(1/4) or the forth-root of the chance, respectively. But why should it be the forth-root instead of third-root? Remember that in Gen V only THREE shake checks are performed. The example would be right for Gen IV, but not for Kyurem. Or is there something I do not understand? - Pokémon [[User:Pokémon|Questions?]] -- 23:37, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

:I have checked the version history now. In fact this example has been done before finding out that since Generation V only three shakes are performed (or one for a critical capture). It must be a wrong example. Otherwise I has no mathmatical sense. It's almost like saying 1/3 * 4 = 1. You cannot have only three shakes, but set a single shake to the extend of 4 to get the whole capture chance p. The real chance of this example has to be 15.77%.- Pokémon [[User:Pokémon|Questions?]] -- 00:36, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

== The nearest 1/4096 ==

"and then rounded to the nearest multiple of 1/4096"

I always read this, but... what does it mean?!? The first multiple is 4096 to get a whole number, so if I have numbers between 0 and 255 I always would round them to 1. Nonsence. I just don't understand this expression. - Pokémon [[User:Pokémon|Questions?]] -- 03:34, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

:I believe it means the game uses 12 fractional bits. If the program is executed in the order shown, "(3*HP_MAX - 2*HP_Current)*rate*ball/3/HP_MAX*status", the "/3" will round the result then "/HP_Max" will round the result again. If we were only dealing with int data types, each division would round the result to the next lowest integer (1/3 = 0, 13/10 = 1, 9000/4096 = 2). The fractional bits ensure a calculation like 400/3 yields 546133/4096 (133.33325) instead of just 133 - an error of .006% instead .25%. Is it going to make much of a difference after you round to the nearest whole number? Not really. But when you have the memory and the processing power, this becomes a trivial process, so why not. [[User:Rulingsword|Rulingsword]] ([[User talk:Rulingsword|talk]]) 04:47, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

== Generation VI Catch Rate Formula ==

I think that we can say with certainty that the catch rate formula has changed drastically in Generation VI. [[Zygarde]] has a catch rate of 0 which would mean that it could not be captured except with a Master Ball. This is assuming that the catch rate given is correct. {{unsigned|Mudmaster97}}
:Most Gen VI Pokémon's catch rate aren't known, so it says 0. [[User:Glik|Glik]] ([[User talk:Glik|talk]]) 15:54, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

== Blowing into the microphone ==
In generation IV it was rumored that blowing into the microphone increased your chances of catching the Pokémon. I know to take rumors with a pinch of salt, but it appeared as an official tip in the Official Nintendo Magazine a few years ago. --[[User:Evacino|'''evacino''']][[User talk:Evacino|''' (talk)''']] 19:51, 19 February 2014 (GMT)

== This page confuses people horribly ==

After browsing through a bunch of catch rate-related questions on PokémonDB, I have come to the conclusion that this page is frightfully confusing for the average fan. People scroll down to the later generations, see the single big formula graphic for the modified catch rate in generations III-IV, plug in the numbers, get something that looks vaguely like it could be a percentage and then assume that's it. This could probably be avoided or mitigated by rewriting or at least rearranging the page so that the shake probability calculation is at least closer to the modified catch rate, so people see that there is more to it than that one formula, but I'm open to suggestions. Any thoughts?{{unsigned|Dragonfree}}

== Shake-Brake Comments ==

In BW2 the 1 shake-brake comment is exactly like it is execpt with "Aww" not "Aww" also the 2 shake-break comment isnt listed but I will find out what it is ( sry I havent been signing my comments I keep forgetting) [[User:Pokemonisawesome2|Pokemonisawesome2]] ([[User talk:Pokemonisawesome2|talk]]) 02:38, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

Talk:Opelucid Gym

2014-07-12T19:26:43Z

Pokemonisawesome2:

Regarding Junior Trainers at this Gym, are there really not any at all in the games, or do they exist in the games, but simply have not been added to the article yet? If there are not any at all in the games, as far as I can tell, this would be the only Gym in Isshu that does not have any at all, and that would be worthy of the trivia section, right? --[[User:Jediknightdtv|JediKnight]][[User talk:Jediknightdtv|DTV]] 14:33, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
:There are trainers. Lots of them, in fact. [[User:Mr. Charlie|'''Mr. Charlie''']]([[User_Talk:Mr. Charlie|''TalkToMe'']]) 14:35, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

== trivia problem, I think...? ==

Where it says Shaga's and Iris's team are identical except for gender, do their Crimgan count since they have different abilities? [[User:Pokabu82|Pokabu]][[user talk:Pokabu82|82]] 20:29, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Haxorus level? ==

Should it be mentioned that Haxorus is under-leveled for its evolution, since Fraxure evolve at level 48?--[[User:Black Yin Zekrom|Black Yin Zekrom]] 06:13, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

== Haxorus Ability ==

under the trivia with the diffrences between iris and draydens parties it should also note that iris's haxorus has moldbreaker while drayden's haxorus has rivalry

Talk:Seafloor Cavern

2014-07-09T03:18:18Z

Pokemonisawesome2: Created page with " == Emerald Double Battle == hey I was playing emerald and I just fought shelly and the grount with the golbat and mightena (the last grunt in the list) now I could have talk..."

== Emerald Double Battle ==

hey I was playing emerald and I just fought shelly and the grount with the golbat and mightena (the last grunt in the list) now I could have talked them and fought them seperately (and I actuly think I could have just proceded with out fighting shelly) but there is definently a potental double battle with shelly and that grunt [[User:Pokemonisawesome2|Pokemonisawesome2]] ([[User talk:Pokemonisawesome2|talk]]) 03:18, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

Johto Route 44

2014-07-02T06:00:52Z

Pokemonisawesome2: /* Generation IV */

{{Route infobox
|number=44
|size=250
|image=Johto Route 44 HGSS.png
|imageII=Johto Route 44 GSC.png
|type=lake
|west=Mahogany Town
|east=Ice Path
|region=Johto
|surf=yes
|generation=2
|mapdesc=A wonderful path with a few pleasant springs and abundant greenery.
}}

'''Route 44''' (Japanese: '''４４ばんどうろ''' ''Route 44'') is a route in northern [[Johto]], connecting the [[Ice Path]] to [[Mahogany Town]].

==Route description==
Route 44 is straightforward and easy to navigate. It is forked around a pair of calm ponds. Pokémon Trainers gather on either side of the ponds, and provide a challenge before the chilling [[Ice Path]]. Battling wild Pokémon is entirely optional, as the only patch of straight grass is surrounded by a pair of calm ponds. The Pokémon found here, however, are rarely found elsewhere in the Johto region. {{p|Remoraid}}, for example, can only be found on this route. Some Pokémon from faraway regions can be lured here if the right radio station is playing.

==Items==
{{itlisth|lake}}
{{Itemlist|none|In the tree on the west side of the route|G=yes|S=yes|C=yes|display={{DL|Berry (Generation II)|Burnt Berry}}}}
{{Itemlist|Max Revive|In the patch of grass in the middle of the lake|G=yes|S=yes|C=yes|HG=yes|SS=yes|display={{DL|Revive|Max Revive}}}}
{{Itemlist|Elixir|In the patch of grass in the middle of the lake ''(hidden)''|G=yes|S=yes|C=yes|display={{DL|Ether|Elixir}}}}
{{Itemlist|Ultra Ball|Near Fisher Wilton|G=yes|S=yes|display={{ball|Ultra}}}}
{{Itemlist|Red Apricorn|North of the Mahogany Town entrance|HG=yes|SS=yes|display={{DL|Apricorn|Red Apricorn}}}}
{{Itemlist|Max Repel|Near Psychic Phil|C=yes|HG=yes|SS=yes|display={{DL|Repel|Max Repel}}}}
{{Itemlist|Ultra Ball|Near Poké Maniac Zach|C=yes|HG=yes|SS=yes|display={{ball|Ultra}}}}
{{Itemlist|Elixir|On the east side of the route ''(hidden)''|HG=yes|SS=yes|display={{DL|Ether|Elixir}}}}
{{itlistfoot|lake}}

==Pokémon==
===Generation II===
{{catch/header|lake}}
{{catch/entry2|060|Poliwag|no|no|yes|Grass|22|0%|0%|30%|type1=Water}}
{{catch/entry2|061|Poliwhirl|no|no|yes|Grass|24-26|0%|0%|10%|type1=Water}}
{{catch/entry2|069|Bellsprout|yes|yes|yes|Grass|22|all=20%|type1=Grass|type2=Poison}}
{{catch/entry2|070|Weepinbell|yes|yes|no|Grass|22-24|all=35%|type1=Grass|type2=Poison}}
{{catch/entry2|070|Weepinbell|no|no|yes|Grass|24|all=10%|type1=Grass|type2=Poison}}
{{catch/entry2|108|Lickitung|yes|yes|no|Grass|24-26|all=15%|type1=Normal}}
{{catch/entry2|108|Lickitung|no|no|yes|Grass|22-26|40%|40%|0%|type1=Normal}}
{{catch/entry2|114|Tangela|yes|yes|yes|Grass|23|all=30%|type1=Grass}}
{{catch/div|lake|Surfing}}
{{catch/entry2|060|Poliwag|yes|yes|yes|Surf|15-24|all=90%|type1=Water}}
{{catch/entry2|061|Poliwhirl|yes|yes|yes|Surf|20-24|all=10%|type1=Water}}
{{catch/div|lake|Fishing}}
{{catch/entry2|060|Poliwag|yes|yes|yes|Fish Old|10|all=15%|type1=Water}}
{{catch/entry2|129|Magikarp|yes|yes|yes|Fish Old|10|all=85%|type1=Water}}
{{catch/entry2|060|Poliwag|yes|yes|yes|Fish Good|20|all=65%|type1=Water}}
{{catch/entry2|129|Magikarp|yes|yes|yes|Fish Good|20|all=35%|type1=Water}}
{{catch/entry2|060|Poliwag|yes|yes|no|Fish Super|40|all=70%|type1=Water}}
{{catch/entry2|060|Poliwag|no|no|yes|Fish Super|40|all=80%|type1=Water}}
{{catch/entry2|129|Magikarp|yes|yes|yes|Fish Super|40|all=20%|type1=Water}}
{{catch/entry2|223|Remoraid|yes|yes|no|Fish Super|40|all=10%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/div|lake|Headbutt}}
{{catch/entry2|021|Spearow|yes|yes|no|Headbutt|10|all=80%|type1=Normal|type2=Flying}}
{{catch/entry2|023|Ekans|no|no|yes|Headbutt|10|all=15%|type1=Poison}}
{{catch/entry2|102|Exeggcute|no|no|yes|Headbutt|10|all=20%|type1=Grass|type2=Psychic}}
{{catch/entry2|163|Hoothoot|no|no|yes|Headbutt|10|all=65%|type1=Normal|type2=Flying}}
{{catch/entry2|190|Aipom|yes|yes|no|Headbutt|10|all=20%|type1=Normal}}
{{Catch/div|lake|Headbutt (Special Tree)}}
{{catch/entry2|021|Spearow|yes|yes|no|Headbutt|10|all=50%|type1=Normal|type2=Flying}}
{{catch/entry2|102|Exeggcute|no|no|yes|Headbutt|10|all=20%|type1=Grass|type2=Psychic}}
{{catch/entry2|163|Hoothoot|no|no|yes|Headbutt|10|all=50%|type1=Normal|type2=Flying}}
{{catch/entry2|190|Aipom|yes|yes|no|Headbutt|10|all=20%|type1=Normal}}
{{catch/entry2|204|Pineco|no|no|yes|Headbutt|10|all=30%|type1=Bug}}
{{catch/entry2|214|Heracross|yes|yes|no|Headbutt|10|all=30%|type1=Bug|type2=Fighting}}
{{catch/div|lake|Swarm}}
{{catch/entry2|223|Remoraid|yes|yes|no|Swarm|10|all={{tt|15%|with Old Rod}}|type1=Water}}
{{catch/entry2|223|Remoraid|yes|yes|no|Swarm|20|all={{tt|65%|with Good Rod}}|type1=Water}}
{{catch/entry2|223|Remoraid|yes|yes|no|Swarm|40|all={{tt|100%|with Super Rod}}|type1=Water}}
{{catch/footer|lake}}

===Generation IV===
{{catch/header|lake}}
{{catch/entryhs|070|Weepinbell|yes|yes|Grass|22-24|all=35%|type1=Grass|type2=Poison}}
{{catch/entryhs|069|Bellsprout|yes|yes|Grass|22|all=20%|type1=Grass|type2=Poison}}
{{catch/entryhs|108|Lickitung|yes|yes|Grass|24-26|all=15%|type1=Normal}}
{{catch/entryhs|114|Tangela|yes|yes|Grass|23|all=30%|type1=Grass}}
{{catch/div|lake|Surfing}}
{{catch/entryhs|060|Poliwag|yes|yes|Surf|10-29|all=90%|type1=Water}}
{{catch/entryhs|061|Poliwhirl|yes|yes|Surf|15-32|all=10%|type1=Water}}
{{catch/div|lake|Fishing}}
{{catch/entryhs|060|Poliwag|yes|yes|Fish Old|10|all=5%|type1=Water}}
{{catch/entryhs|129|Magikarp|yes|yes|Fish Old|10|all=95%|type1=Water}}
{{catch/entryhs|060|Poliwag|yes|yes|Fish Good|20|all=38%|type1=Water}}
{{catch/entryhs|129|Magikarp|yes|yes|Fish Good|20|all=60%|type1=Water}}
{{catch/entryhs|223|Remoraid|yes|yes|Fish Good|20|all=2%|type1=Water}}
{{catch/entryhs|060|Poliwag|yes|yes|Fish Super|40|all=90%|type1=Water}}
{{catch/entryhs|129|Magikarp|yes|yes|Fish Super|40|all=7%|type1=Water}}
{{catch/entryhs|223|Remoraid|yes|yes|Fish Super|40|all=3%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/div|lake|Headbutt}}
{{catch/entryhs|021|Spearow|yes|yes|Headbutt|21-24|all=50%|type1=Normal|type2=Flying|10=j}}
{{catch/entryhs|190|Aipom|yes|yes|Headbutt|21-24|all=20%|type1=Normal|10=j}}
{{catch/entryhs|214|Heracross|yes|yes|Headbutt|21-24|all=30%|type1=Bug|type2=Fighting|10=j}}
{{catch/div|lake|Swarm}}
{{catch/entryhs|223|Remoraid|yes|yes|Swarm|10-40|all=90%|type1=Water}}
{{catch/div|lake|Special}}
{{catch/entryhs|264|Linoone|yes|yes|Hoenn|22|all=20%|type1=Normal}}
{{catch/entryhs|293|Whismur|yes|yes|Hoenn|22-23|all=20%|type1=Normal}}
{{catch/entryhs|399|Bidoof|yes|yes|Sinnoh|22|all=20%|type1=Normal}}
{{catch/entryhs|418|Buizel|yes|yes|Sinnoh|22-23|all=20%|type1=Water}}
{{catch/footer|lake}}

==Trainers==
===Generation II===
{{trainerheader|lake}}
{{Trainerentry|Spr GS Psychic.png|Psychic|Phil|972|2|177|Natu|♂|24|None|064|Kadabra|♂|26|None|36=シュンジ|37=Shunji}}
{{Trainerdiv|lake}}
{{Trainerentry|Spr GS Fisher.png|Fisher|Edgar|1000|2|223|Remoraid|♂|25|None|223|Remoraid|♂|25|None|36=シュウへイ|37=Shūhei}}
{{Trainerdiv|lake}}
{{Trainerentry|Spr GS Cooltrainer F.png|Cooltrainer|Cybil|1200|2|012|Butterfree|♀|25|None|182|Bellossom|♀|25|None|36=ノゾミ|37=Nozomi}}
{{Trainerdiv|lake}}
{{Trainerentry|Spr GS Cooltrainer M.png|Cooltrainer|Allen|1296|1|005|Charmeleon|♂|27|None|36=ゴウ|37=Gō}}
{{Trainerdiv|lake}}
{{Trainerentry|Spr GS PokéManiac.png|PokéManiac|Zach|1620|1|111|Rhyhorn|♂|27|None|36=モトフミ|37=Motofumi}}
{{Trainerdiv|lake}}
{{Trainerentry|Spr GS Fisher.png|Fisher|[[Wilton]]|1000|3|118|Goldeen|♂|23|None|118|Goldeen|♂|23|None|119|Seaking|♂|25|None|36=ヒデノリ|37=Hidenori|38=phone}}
{{Trainerdiv|lake}}
{{Trainerentry|Spr GS Bird Keeper.png|Bird Keeper|Vance|600|2|017|Pidgeotto|♂|25|None|017|Pidgeotto|♂|25|None|36=モトヒロ|37=Motohiro|38=phone}}
{{Trainerfooter|lake|II}}

===Generation IV===
{{trainerheader|lake}}
{{Trainerentry|Spr DP Psychic M.png|Psychic|Phil|928|2|177|Natu|♂|27|None|064|Kadabra|♂|29|None|36=シュンジ|37=Shunji}}
{{Trainerdiv|lake}}
{{Trainerentry|Spr DP Fisherman.png|Fisherman|Edgar|896|2|223|Remoraid|♂|28|None|223|Remoraid|♂|28|None|36=シュウへイ|37=Shūhei}}
{{Trainerdiv|lake}}
{{Trainerentry|Spr HGSS Ace Trainer F.png|Ace Trainer|Cybil|1740|2|179|Mareep|♀|29|None|182|Bellossom|♀|29|None|36=ノゾミ|37=Nozomi}}
{{Trainerdiv|lake}}
{{Trainerentry|Spr HGSS Ace Trainer M.png|Ace Trainer|Allen|1740|2|005|Charmeleon|♂|29|None|081|Magnemite||29|None|36=ゴウ|37=Gō}}
{{Trainerdiv|lake}}
{{Trainerentry|Spr HGSS Poké Maniac.png|Poké Maniac|Zach|1920|1|111|Rhyhorn|♂|30|None|36=モトフミ|37=Motofumi}}
{{Trainerdiv|lake}}
{{Trainerentry|Spr DP Fisherman.png|Fisherman|[[Wilton]]|896|3|118|Goldeen|♂|26|None|118|Goldeen|♂|26|None|119|Seaking|♂|28|None|36=ヒデノリ|37=Hidenori|38=phone}}
{{Trainerdiv|lake}}
{{Trainerentry|Spr HGSS Bird Keeper.png|Bird Keeper|Vance|896|2|163|Hoothoot|♂|28|None|017|Pidgeotto|♂|28|None|36=モトヒロ|37=Motohiro|38=phone}}
{{Trainerdiv|lake|Rematch}}
{{Trainerentry|Spr DP Fisherman.png|Fisherman|[[Wilton]]|1152|3|118|Goldeen|♂|32|None|118|Goldeen|♂|32|None|119|Seaking|♂|36|None|36=ヒデノリ|37=Hidenori|38=phone}}
{{Trainerdiv|lake}}
{{Trainerentry|Spr HGSS Bird Keeper.png|Bird Keeper|Vance|1024|2|163|Hoothoot|♂|33|None|017|Pidgeotto|♂|32|None|36=モトヒロ|37=Motohiro|38=phone}}
{{Trainerfooter|lake|II}}

==Trivia==
* A [[List of glitches in Generation IV#Invisible grass|graphical glitch]] occurs on this route in {{game|HeartGold and SoulSilver|s}}. Three tiles at the top of the grassy patch appear to be empty at first glance, but when the player (or his or her [[walking Pokémon|partner Pokémon]]) walks over the tiles, [[tall grass]] will appear underfoot. At most two of the three tiles will be grassy, allowing for comparisons to be made between the tiles.

{{Johto}} 
{{Project Routes notice}}

[[Category:Johto locations|Route 044]]
[[Category:Routes|Route 044]]
[[Category:Gold, Silver and Crystal locations|Route 044]]
[[Category:HeartGold and SoulSilver locations|Route 044]]

[[it:Percorso 44 (Johto)]]

[[de:Route 44 (Johto)]]
[[es:Ruta 44 (Johto)]]
[[fr:Route 44]]
[[ja:44ばんどうろ]]
[[zh:44号道路（城都）]]

Talk:Johto Route 44

2014-06-20T04:06:46Z

Pokemonisawesome2: /* Vance Rematch */

== Vance Rematch ==
I am rematching bird keeper vance right now and he has diffrent pokemon that arent on the page when you rematch him he has a lv 33 hoothoot male and a lv 32 pidgeotto male should this be added? [[User:Pokemonisawesome2|Pokemonisawesome2]] ([[User talk:Pokemonisawesome2|talk]]) 16:06, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

I didnt see how much money you get for winning though [[User:Pokemonisawesome2|Pokemonisawesome2]] ([[User talk:Pokemonisawesome2|talk]]) 16:07, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

Mabey it would look something like this I am new to this site so idk how stuff really goes down. anyway the chart below is just the one from the article but I added the vince rematch should this replace the one on the page or what?

{{trainerheader|lake}}
{{Trainerentry|Spr DP Psychic M.png|Psychic|Phil|928|2|177|Natu|♂|27|None|064|Kadabra|♂|29|None|36=シュンジ|37=Shunji}}
{{Trainerdiv|lake}}
{{Trainerentry|Spr DP Fisherman.png|Fisherman|Edgar|896|2|223|Remoraid|♂|28|None|223|Remoraid|♂|28|None|36=シュウへイ|37=Shūhei}}
{{Trainerdiv|lake}}
{{Trainerentry|Spr HGSS Ace Trainer F.png|Ace Trainer|Cybil|1740|2|179|Mareep|♀|29|None|182|Bellossom|♀|29|None|36=ノゾミ|37=Nozomi}}
{{Trainerdiv|lake}}
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[[User:Pokemonisawesome2|Pokemonisawesome2]] ([[User talk:Pokemonisawesome2|talk]]) 16:20, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

but again I am not sure about the reward money for the vince rematch but since him and wilton pay the same in the first battle I am geussing that they pay the same for the rematch but I am not sure [[User:Pokemonisawesome2|Pokemonisawesome2]] ([[User talk:Pokemonisawesome2|talk]]) 16:21, 18 June 2014 (UTC)
:I added the Vince rematch to the page. --[[User:NOBODY|NOBODY]] ([[User talk:NOBODY|talk]]) 20:43, 18 June 2014 (UTC)
Vance rematched me again his pokemon the same lvl and he paid 1024 BUT it said sent some home to mom also he gave me a carbos after the battle

Talk:Mother

2014-06-18T17:15:29Z

Pokemonisawesome2:

Correct me if i'm wrong but i can remember a picture of the generation 2 mom.--[[User:Pokéboy93|Pokéboy93]] 15:03, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

== The Cleaner Mom ==
Isn't there a artwork for a mom in HeartGold, or is it like Prof. Mom in Generation 4?--[[User:The Bulb's Master|The Bulb's Master]] 20:54, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

So far, we don't know if there's new artwork for a Mom in HeartGold and SoulSilver. She'll probably get updated art in the HeartGold and SoulSilver guidebook when it comes out along with the games in the US since she's the only character other than the 8 Johto Gym Leaders that hasn't gotten her art updated yet to match Ken Sugimori's current style. --[[User:Dialgafan1|Dialgafan1]] 22:54, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

== I'm sorry ==

I come from england, well guess the rest. But could we change this page's name to mother. To be fair. Lunick v sonela 11:48, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

I agree i am from england and we don't say mom we say mum or mother. [[User:Roryrules123|Roryrules123]] 2:13, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

You can't say mum though. Lunick v sonela 15:50, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

:I'm from New Zealand, and while that name sounds worse than nails on a blackboard (chalkboard?), it's her in-game name. Remember Generation II? "Sent some to Mom!"? —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 20:40, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
:: I know that. Lunick v sonela 06:04, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
:::Well that's why it's at this name. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 21:04, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
::::While old discussion is old, this is relevant. Now that HGSS is released, even though the game still says "Sent some to Mom!", in the Pokégear phone she is listed as Mother. I'm going to suggest that we move this page to 'mother', which seems to be a more logical name for the player's mother anyway. Mother is even used throughout the article regardless. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 09:03, 5 July 2010 (UTC)
:::::Why change something that has already been decided, well it may not sound right in some peoples ears, but what does the name matter? Sorry, but it's a waist of time! [[User:Asherb0y|'''asherb0y''']][[User talk:asherb0y|'''''']]
::::::Well, I'm not suggesting that we only change it because it sounds different to different people, but I think that the Pokégear phone would be more reliable than that one line of ingame text after every battle (assuming you have told her to save your money). Mother is slightly less personal than mom. The article itself often opts for mother over mom (or mum) because it sounds much less awkward. Finally, mother is a ''slightly'' (notice slightly) better translation of the Japanese name. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 10:03, 5 July 2010 (UTC)
::::::I vote for "Mother" because that's what she's called in the PokéGear. --[[User:Zesty Cactus|'''Zesty''']][[User talk:Zesty Cactus|'''Cactus''']] 20:09, 26 July 2010 (UTC)
:::::::I'll say that we should call her 'Mother' based on the fact that it's how she's registered in the Pokégear. Generation II called her 'Mom' and to keep it current, we should change it to 'Mother.' [[User:KurosakisTwin|KurosakisTwin]] 17:04, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::::But didn't gen 4 also call her "Mom"? Thus, it should be kept the same because that would be the way it is in the dialog, so it is both current, and staying with the original name.
:::::::: sorry, forgot to sign [[User:Mikkim|Mikkim]] 23:37, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
:::::::::But it also lists her as mother in the Pokégear. Lt. Surge is simply called Surge (at least when trading, thats all I remember) and his Pikachu's OT is Surge, but the Pokégear lists him as Lt. Surge. Are we gonna change his article to just Surge?--[[User:Pokelova|''Poké'']][[User talk:Pokelova|lova!]] 23:51, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
::::::::::You still send some to ''mom'' in Gen IV, for whatever that's worth. But ''Mother'' would make a nicely generic title, especially since it's often linked as <nowiki>[[Mom|mother]]</nowiki>. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 00:02, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
:::::::::::I think we should have a vote.--[[User:Pokelova|''Poké'']][[User talk:Pokelova|lova!]] 00:09, 4 September 2010
(resetting indent) I'm pretty sure the title Mother is used in the Pokégear because it is a formal title, and the Pokégear is a formal machine. Basically, I think the player refers to their own mother as mom. [[User:Turtwig A|Turtwig's]] [[Turtwig (Pokémon)|A-B-Cs]] ([[User talk:Turtwig A|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|contribs]]) 00:31, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
:And they refer to Lt. Surge as Surge, but we aren't moving him.--[[User:Pokelova|''Poké'']][[User talk:Pokelova|lova!]] 00:41, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
::Well I was basically saying that just for the sake of argument. I'm neutral on this matter, mostly because the difference between Lt. Surge and Surge can work both ways. On one side, one could argue that Lieutenant is called that by the "{{tt|narrator|the guy who says "NAME would like to battle}}". It's the game itself and no character from inside the game, meaning it could be official. The other could argue that it could still be a formal or informal title. [[User:Turtwig A|Turtwig's]] [[Turtwig (Pokémon)|A-B-Cs]] ([[User talk:Turtwig A|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|contribs]]) 00:48, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

==Berries==
She seems to buy a lot of rare berries in HG/SS. Usually batches of 5 of the anti-super-effective berries, I find.[[User:Darien Shields|Darien Shields]] 18:15, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
:It's true! I got some of the Tanga Berries. --[[User:SaitoFX|SaitoFX]] 06:19, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, that's all she buys now, the damage reducing berries. *looks at page* Holy Crap, that hasn't been updated since HGSS! You can't even decorate you bedroom in HGSS. I'll fix that now. <sc>[[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]]</sc> [[User talk:Werdnae|(talk)]] 06:43, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
:::I got non-berry stuff from her, but can't remember what it was. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 06:55, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
::::Ah. I couldn't remember whether she did or not, I haven't got a non-berry item from her in aaaaaaaaaaages. I think she must only buy them at the start, then she switches to berries after a certain point. (Thinking about it, maybe I got a {{DL|Poké Ball|Great Ball}}? Not sure) <sc>[[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]]</sc> [[User talk:Werdnae|(talk)]] 07:05, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
:::::I once got a Moon Stone from her. I think I may have also gotten a Super Potion as well, but I honestly can't remember. [[User:Mudkipchan|Mudkipchan]] 07:06, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
::::::I've changed it so it now says
:::::::''occasionally buys decorations for the bedroom (G/S/C), or damage reducing berries (HG/SS) or items such as Super Potions.''
::::::But more information would be nice, it should probably go on the items' pages. <sc>[[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]]</sc> [[User talk:Werdnae|(talk)]] 07:40, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
:::::::I get the randomest crap from her. 9/10 times it's Berries, but she's also bought me two Focus Sashes, some evolution stones... --[[User:Zesty Cactus|'''Zesty''']][[User talk:Zesty Cactus|'''Cactus''']] 13:45, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
::::::::Silk Scarf and Moon Stone are the most exciting ones I remember, but I've also got Great Balls and Super Potions. Oh, and berries. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 10:48, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

== Mom in Black and White ==
In trivia, it saids that Johanna was the only mother to leave her hometown. In Black and White this is no longer true, cause the mother in Black and White meets the player on Route 2.--[[User:Mattii|Mattii]] 18:34, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
:If you see a trivia point which is no longer true, youd don't need to ask. Just go ahead and remove it. Stating the reason in the edit summary will be fine. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] [[User talk:Werdnae|(talk)]] 02:31, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

== Page move to "mother" ==

I don't think it's a good idea to move this page to "mother" as every game calls her as "mom". Rather go with the common name rather than a formal name? [[User:Eelamstylez77|EelamStyleZ]] [[User talk:Eelamstylez77|Discuss]] 03:43, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
:Mother is what she s listed as in the Pokégear. It seems to casual and personal to call her "mom". Not to mention that most links here are <nowiki>[[Mom|mother]]</nowiki> anyway, since encyclopedicly "mom" is not appropriate. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 14:55, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
::Mom is just the informal word for Mother, so it really makes no difference since they both mean the same thing. If I recall correctly the Motherly figure in the Generation I games were referred to as "Mom" in dialogue, hence the title of this page. —'''[[User:MasterKenobi|Master]][[User talk:MasterKenobi|Kenobi]]''' 19:53, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
:::I actually think "Mother" sounds... hmmm... more respectful? So.... yeah.... "HAPPY MOTHERS DAY! ♥" sounds better than, "HAPPY MOMS DAY! ♥" See?! ----[[User:Sushi2000|Sushi]] ''([[User talk:2000Sushi|Talk]])'' 03:16, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
::::She was refereed to as "Mom" on [[Mom's Kindness (Majestic Dawn 83)]]. ''[[User:Maverick Nate|'''Maverick''']][[User talk:Maverick Nate|'''Nate''']]'' 13:21, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
::::::Since she's referred to as both in game, it seems "Mother" would be most appropriate. [[User:Ikarishipper900|Ikarishipper900]] 23:57, 28 May 2011 (UTC)
:::::::The player character calls her Mom because he/she is her son. As we are only describing a character in an article, so we should call her Mother as we are not her children. And still redirect "Mom" to the page, of course. '''|) u |( e''' 23:43, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
::::::::I was going to sat keep it at Mom, but then |) u |( e made a very good point. {{tt|We are NOT her children|Or are we? Mwuhahahaha...}}, and we don't know most of their names, we should probably keep it at Mother, because it's more formal, closer to what your {{tt|average|although this wiki is way above average}} wiki would have it as, and we are NOT her children. '''[[User:EvilKirikizan|EvilKirikizan]]''' '''[[User talk:EvilKirikizan|speaking!]] 22:00, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
::Did we ever reach any agreement on this? I agree with trom's point above that when you talk to her in the games, it calls her Mom, not Mother. (I seem to recall her being under "Mom" in the Pokégear too, isn't that right? [[Special:Contributions/Zesty Cactus|--]][[User:Zesty Cactus|'''Zesty''']][[User talk:Zesty Cactus|'''Cactus''']] 00:01, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
:::By the looks of it, the majority wants this moved to mother. I disagree with the move as she is refered to as mom in the games, and I think other characters in game refer her as "You mom" instead of "Your Mother".--[[User:Force Fire|'''F''']][[Reshiram (Pokémon)|orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F''']][[Zekrom (Pokémon)|ire]] 00:07, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
::::Actually, she was referred to as "Mother" in the Pokégear (at least in HGSS). --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 16:45, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
:::::Yes, she was. [[User:Pikachu Bros.|Pikachu Bros.]] ([[User talk:Pikachu Bros.|talk]]) 16:48, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

== MOVE TO MOTHER ==

This should be moved to [[Mother]]. After all, in the game she IS called Mother, right? That is my statement.
And another thing, just put a COPY of the thing as "Mom" and put a link (like related or something) to "Mother". Easy.
waterlubber 23:53, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

THE game? Which game? Besides, BW uses "Mom". I saw so after beating White again. For the sake of the situation I'm referring to, ignore the quotes (Thanks a lot for complicating this, Looker)--[[User:SandmanDP|SandmanDP]] 00:01, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

I have HG and on the Pokégear it refers to her as Mother...I think.
And BTY, it said to tell what I wanted in the talk page so I did. Big deal. I don't have B/W
waterlubber 00:08, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Black and White are the newest main series games and thus we use what the newest games call them. HGSS also has "Sent some to Mom!" when it comes to saving money. The page ain't going anywhere--[[User:SandmanDP|SandmanDP]] 00:12, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

And neither is my opinion. JUST MAKE 2 DARNED PAGES!!! OR A REDIRECT! OR A PROGRAM THAT FIGURES OUT WHICH PAGE DO YOU VISIT THE MOST BY USING YOUR IP OR SOMETHING!!!
waterlubber 00:18, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Chill, bro. SandmanDP is right, this page isn't getting moved. [[User:Pikachu Bros.|Pikachu Bros.]] ([[User talk:Pikachu Bros.|talk]]) 00:19, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Why make a duplicate page? Filler? And a redirect already exists so please calm down--[[User:SandmanDP|SandmanDP]] 00:21, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
:The purpose of making redirects is to have more than two articles that might differ slightly to be joined together. Mother redirects to mom, which is what the player calls her as. I side with SandmanDP here, I'm sorry but Mom will stay as the article. Also, there's no need to get angry. ''(Would you guys mind indenting the comments? I get confused and I don't know who is talking and who isn't...)'' [[User:Masatoshi|Masatoshi]][[User_talk:Masatoshi|''talk'']] 00:22, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
::Actually he has a point. As SnorlaxMonster stated above it's unencyclopedic to call the page "Mom". Of course it's called Mom in the games, because in the games you are playing in a first person perspective. Otherwise since we don't use other first person pronouns like "You" instead of "Players" I think that the option to move the page should not be shot down. [[User:Pokemaster97|--Pokemaster]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|97]] 00:23, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
:::Except calling Mother "Mom" doesn't break the fourth wall. Also, your logic involves moving Alder to Unova Champion, because that's his formal title--[[User:SandmanDP|SandmanDP]] 00:26, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
::::Well that's diffrent. Alder is his born name, a proper noun, while Mom is not. But if Masatoshi says it shouldn't be moved I'll respect his decision. I just think some of the reasoning in the above section should be looked into furthur. [[User:Pokemaster97|--Pokemaster]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|97]] 00:38, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
:::::Well I meant for now, unless a consensus is made. In my opinion, it should be left as Mom, but if you want and try to suggest the change with a poll, then by all means do so. From what I'm reading, seemingly there was a consensus on changing it over Mother, but nothing was done in that time. Since it's happened a more than twelve months ago, a new poll should be created. Let's see what happens this time. [[User:Masatoshi|Masatoshi]][[User_talk:Masatoshi|''talk'']] 00:44, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
::::::Again, you said you wanted formal. Alder is not formal. Look at the Xtransceiver, with the player's mom programming her own number in, just like in HGSS's Pokegear. Never referred to as "Mother", always Mom. End of story--[[User:SandmanDP|SandmanDP]] 00:47, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
:::::::I'm looking at the HGSS Pokegear right now, and it says "Mother" and we don't use "Unova champion" because we alreadyhave a page about the champions, Alder's page is about him in general. It's why George Bush's page on wikipedia isn't called "Former U.S. President". It's just morally correct to call it "Mother" rather than "Mom. [[User:Pokemaster97|--Pokemaster]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|97]] 01:09, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
::::::::You just completely contradicted yourself and missed my point. You're saying Steven would be moved to Hoenn Champion 1 and Wallace be moved to Hoenn Champion 2. You're going for formal titles based on one set of games in the previous generation. The Xtransceiver even says Mom. End of story. And yes, Mom is capitalized in "Sent some to Mom" and thus used as a proper noun--[[User:SandmanDP|SandmanDP]] 01:17, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
What point are you trying to make then? Explain and I'll listen. Because all your doing is trying to tear down every single point I make. [[User:Pokemaster97|--Pokemaster]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|97]] 01:23, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
:The page is staying at Mom because that is what Black & White uses at all times, including the Xtransceiver and the minute the player walks downstairs and encounters Looker--[[User:SandmanDP|SandmanDP]] 01:25, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
::Well ok I see your point there. I guess we can just see what other people think about it. [[User:Pokemaster97|--Pokemaster]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|97]] 01:32, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
:::I think the page should stay at Mom. A majority of the games calls her Mom except for HGSS(only on the PokéGear) and DPPt(given an actual name). If a majority of games, including the most recent ones, have her name as Mom, that should be how it stays. [[User:Funktastic~!|Funktastic~!]] 02:24, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
::::I think it should stay at "Mom" as well. Not just because its what the games call her, but because that's what the players call her. If someone were to come here looking for her page, he or she is most likely to search for "Mom". Now, I understand we could just set up a redirect, but I don't see the point. This is a community driven encyclopedia, and that's what most of the community knows her as best. Yes, it might be a little unencyclopedic, but I think that's okay in this case. That's my opinion, at least. [[User:Crystal Talian|Crystal]] [[User talk:Crystal Talian|Talian]] 04:25, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
:::::Forget what I said before. Mom and Mother are pretty interchangable. I support it staying. [[User:Pokemaster97|--Pokemaster]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|97]] 16:47, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
::::::Well, in the games like HeartGold, it's saying: "''Player sent some money to Mom''" so it sounds pretty much like rank. So actualy I can't see difference between Mom and Mother after all! I'm not staff member, but I think It should stay like this! [[User:TheSeviper|'''TheSeviper''']] [[User talk:TheSeviper|'''♫ハブネーク♫''']] 21:45, 13 April 2012 (GMT)
:::::::Isn't this a good day to solve this matter once for all? I think it should be moved, but if a date is not defined to decide this, this page will be in the {{cat|Candidates for moving}} category forever. [[User:Duke R|'''|) u |( e''']] [[User talk:Duke R|'''®''']] 23:12, 13 May 2012 (UTC)
::::::::Come on people, let's move it. (and by that i mean move the discussion along.) i think it should stay. [[User:Volcronaperson|_Volcronaperson_]] 23:44, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

MOTHER (in all caps) is also the name of the video game series EarthBound is a part of. If I remember correctly, the reason for calling pages on a species of pokemon "species name (Pokémon)" instead of just "species name" is that we wanted to keep the option of branching out into non-pokemon related stuff. Because the pokemon games can be seen as a spiritual successor to the MOTHER series we should probably keep the option open of making a page on that, and having this page stay at "Mom" would make things less confusing if we did. [[User:Idya Ran|Idya Ran]] 10:07, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
:We have never had any intention of branching out into non-Pokémon-related stuff. [[NIWA]] serves a purpose similar to what you are referring to (in this case [[WikiBound]]). If we ever did want to make an article about the video game series MOTHER (which I don't see happening), it would be made at "MOTHER (series)", while this page would stay at "Mother" with a "If you were looking for..." message at the top of the page linking to it. Regardless, the extremely unlikely possibility of us making a page on the MOTHER series is not relevant to this discussion. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 08:11, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
::This discussion started over a year ago. I think a deadline should be used for this matter, like a stabilished date for the decision. I don't use the forums, but maybe a poll for the users would count. [[User:Duke R|'''|) u |( e''']] [[User talk:Duke R|'''®''']] 17:57, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

== Crystal's Mother ==

I think that she deserve her own page, despite her short appearence until now, she has a lot of personality and she owns a Wobbufet and a Azumarill. But because of these discussions I don't know if the name would be Crystal's Mom or Mother.--[[User:Igor Castro Chucre|Igor ]] ([[User talk:Igor Castro Chucre|talk]]) 23:26, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
:There is nothing about Crystal's Mother that requires a whole page. It all fits into a (small) section of this one. Better to have a single quality article than twenty stubs. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] [[User talk:Werdnae|(talk)]] 02:37, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
::Excuse me, Werdnae, but if it's acceptable that a one-time character like [[Arnold's mother|this]] has her own page, I think that an article about a recurring character wouldn't be a bad idea at all. [[User:Duke R|'''|) u |( e''']] [[User talk:Duke R|'''®''']] 00:03, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
:::[[User:electAbuzzzz/Quality|Quality over quantity.]] Why should we have a teensy little page about Crystal's Mom, when all that information can go into a section of this page to make this one a better article? I'll say for Crystal's Mom what I say for every single request to make pages like this: Expand the section. there's a place to put that info, so put it there. If it becomes so huge (''without'' becoming a blow-by-blow of her appearances) that it no longer fits on this page, ''then'' it can be considered for splitting off.

:::Also, for the record, "We have <insert existing page here> so why not <insert proposed page here>?" is not a viable argument. All it does is make me think that we need to do something about the existing page. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] [[User talk:Werdnae|(talk)]] 03:27, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
::::So you got my point, it was not an argument, but a complaint about the Project COD. Well, I won't get into a matter of anime > manga, but these things are really incoherent in BP. Sorry to mix different subjects, but I've been thinking about this for a while. [[User:Duke R|'''|) u |( e''']] [[User talk:Duke R|'''®''']] 03:45, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

== B2W2 Xtransceiver quotes ==

{| class="expandable" width=100%"
| Here it is. --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 17:26, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
|-
|
*'''When called'''
:Oh! You sound full of energy! What do you need, dear?

*'''I'd like to talk.
:There are many different Pokémon, and even the same kind of Pokémon have individuals with completely different Natures! I wonder what kind of Pokémon is a perfect match for you.
*'''Aspertia City?'''
:What? You're in Aspertia?! Then you should come home! To your own house!
*'''Aspertia Gate?'''
:Aspertia Gate is really close! What? If you want to rest, you should just come home!
*'''Route 19?'''
:Route 19 is right outside of Aspertia. I guess you could say it's a valley road.
*'''Flocessy Town?'''
:You're in Flocessy Town for a spell? Did you visit Alder's house? A long time ago, Alder taught me about Pokémon! Boy, that takes me back!
*'''Pledge Grove?'''
:Pledge Grove? Oh. The one in Flocessy Town! The marks on that rock just have to have been made by Pokémon!
*'''Route 20?'''
:Route 20 is a place where you can enjoy the changing of the seasons. My favorite season is fall! You know, the foliage, the colors... Ah...
*'''Flocessy Ranch?'''
:The ranch! Apparently, when I was little, I rode a Pokémon and everyone got really mad! But I was just a little kid, and I don't remember that at all!
*'''Cave of Being?'''
:The Cave of Being. Ah, yes, I recall it. I wonder what's in there. Apparently, it's a strange place with nothing inside.
*'''Virbank Gate?'''
:Virbank Gate, and... Gates are pretty much the same anywhere, wouldn't you say?'''
*'''Virbank City?'''
:Virbank City! You went to a music club? Recently, I've been getting into Roxie's band! When I listen to them, I feel so full of energy!
*'''Virbank Complex?'''
:Virbank Complex? What, are you helping someone work? Still, I sure remember how pretty it looked at night!
*'''Pokéstar Studios?'''
:Pokéstar Studios! What?! You're going to be in a movie? Well, I'll have to go see it! Oh, a little advice--acting is all about being natural!
*'''Castelia City?'''
:Castelia City! There's just too much to see there! You might want to participate in the Castelia Harlequin Hunt! That's a great way to see the sights. Other than that... Try exploring on your own! Exploring is one of the most fun things about arriving in a new city!
*'''Castelia Sewers?'''
:Castelia Sewers. That's just another way to say it's Castelia City's sewer system. I'm sorry I can't help more. I know about it, but I've never been. But, listen! I've heard there's a secret place located at the far end of the sewer!
*'''Relic Passage?'''
:Relic Passage... As the name suggests, it's an underground passage built long ago. If you pass through it, maybe you'll find out who made it and why!
*'''Liberty Garden?'''
:Where are you now? In Liberty Garden? Two years ago, it became really famous when a mythical Pokémon was found there!
*'''Unity Tower?'''
:Unity Tower! If you've traded Pokémon with people from other countries, you should definitely visit!
*'''Royal Unova?'''
:''Juniper's words echo, so it cannot be used''
*'''Castelia Gate?'''
:Castelia Gate, huh? The gap between Castelia City and Route 4 is pretty fun, isn't it?
*'''Bridge Gate?'''
:A Bridge Gate? All of the gates connected to bridges in the Unova Region are...all...called...Bridge Gates!
*'''Route 4?'''
:Wow! Route 4! Always a lot going on over there. Things like construction and people finding ruins.
*'''Desert Resort?'''
:Watch out for sandstorms in the Desert Resort! Some types of Pokémon will take constant damage in them!
*'''Route Gate?'''
:Route Gate? Hee hee. There are two gates called Route Gates. The first one is off Route 1, and the other is close to the Desert Resort!
*'''Relic Castle?'''
:The Relic Castle, you say? You'll get buried in sand! You already know this, right? If you run onto pits in this sand, you'll fall through them!
*'''Join Avenue?'''
:You're in Join Avenue? I think the way stores come and go is romantic, somehow.
*'''Nimbasa City?'''
:Nimbasa City is the city of entertainment! Working at the Pokémon Center there was sure a lot of fun. Well, now... Big Stadium and Small Court are packed with tough Trainers. There are so many other things to see and do! Enjoy yourself!
*'''Gear Station?'''
:Gear Station, then? The trains to Anville Town get overlooked more often than you'd expect! If you have time, you should take a ride!
*'''Musical Theater'''
:Musical Theater! Hee hee hee! I used to go there often, too! I only went to watch, though! The Pokémon look so cute with their accessories and dancing!
*'''Anville Town'''
:Anville Town! What? Were you a big fan of trains? Still, I understand how you feel.
*'''Nimbasa Gate?'''
:The Nimbasa Gates, you say? For some odd reason, I like the one on the right!
*'''Route 16?'''
:Route 16, huh... You sure don't expect to find a forest like that so close to Nimbasa City, do you? I wonder what the Lostlorn Forest is like these days.
*'''Lostlorn Forest?'''
:Lostlorn Forest? I think it may have been the work of a Pokémon...
*'''Route 5?'''
:I used to slip out of the Pokémon Center from time to time and go watch the performers on Route 5. While I was there, I met many people, such as a girl who would buy items.
*'''Hidden Grotto?'''
:A Hidden Grotto…? I have no idea what that is! Honestly, I'm not hiding anything!
*'''Driftveil Drawbridge?'''
:The Driftveil Drawbridge, eh? I've always wanted to see the bridge opening and closing.
*'''Driftveil City?'''
:Driftveil City! Recently, hotels have been popping up there like crazy, so I hear. Boy, other than that, I sure don't know much about it!
*'''PWT?'''
:The Pokémon World Tournament? Oh, so you are in Driftveil. What are you going to do? Did you enter the tournament? I'll be cheering for you on TV!
*'''Plasma Frigate?'''
:''No one can be called''
*'''Clay Tunnel?'''
:Clay Tunnel, huh? I heard Clay kept on digging no matter what. I wonder what it is about digging that is so captivating to some folks. I heard there is someone who loves digging in the Sinnoh region as well.
*'''Underground Ruins?'''
:What? The Underground Ruins? I've never heard of such a place. Should I go take a peek and see what's going on there?
*'''Rock Peak Chamber?'''
:What? Rock Peak Chamber? Never heard of it. Should I go have a look and find out what's up with it?
*'''Iron Chamber?'''
:What? Iron Chamber? You got me. No idea. Should I go have a look and check it out?
*'''Route 6?'''
:Did you visit the Season Research Lab on Route 6? Also, wasn't there a cave around there? And… Oh, yes. Watch out! You might get fooled by something!
*'''Mistralton Cave?'''
:Mistralton Cave, huh? Many Trainers go there to catch a Pokémon called Axew!
*'''Chargestone Cave?'''
:What's this? I'm hearing a buzzing noise. What? Chargestone Cave? Wow! The Xtransceiver works in there? I never knew that!
*'''Mistralton City?'''
:Mistralton City always makes me think of Skyla! People who had been hurt by the device in her Pokémon Gym would come to the Pokémon Center.
*'''Route 7?'''
:Route 7 has those raised walkways. If you stop, you fall right off! Also, I seem to remember an unexpected Pokémon popping out of the tall grass.
*'''Celestial Tower?'''
:The Celestial Tower... A final resting place for Pokémon. I'm sure some kind soul will ring the bell today.
*'''Twist Mountain?'''
:I'm having a hard time hearing you… Twist Mountain? Oh, now I see! You're in Clay's mountain, then. I've heard you can find Fossils there!
*'''Lentimas Town?'''
:Lentimas Town is close to Reversal Mountain. It's small, but it has an air of uniqueness that makes it surprisingly popular!
*'''Strange House?'''
:The Strange House?! Wow, I know that place! It's a mysterious place close to Reversal Mountain. Know where I mean? Hmm. Maybe there are ghosts there…
*'''Reversal Mountain?'''
:Reversal Mountain! So many Trainers arrived at the Pokémon Center completely wiped out! Be careful, okay?
*'''Undella Town?'''
:Undella Town, Undella Town. A very rich family used to live there, but it looks like everyone moved. I hear the Marine Tube is totally amazing!
*'''Undella Gate?'''
:Undella Gate is a vertical gate. The fact that it's not really different from a horizontal gate is one of the great things about gates!
*'''Route 13?'''
:My impression of Route 13 is that it's rather long! I remember the main route's being hard to find, but it's nice because you can go many places!
*'''Lacunosa Town?'''
:Lacunosa Town... Oh, my word. What made an impression on me when I visited that town was that it was completely different from day to night.
*'''Route 12?'''
:Route 12's gently sloping hills roll up and down, up and down. Strolling across them is a nice feeling!
*'''Village Bridge?'''
:Recently, the Village Bridge has changed a bit, and there are things like tennis courts there. There's no Pokémon Center, though. I haven't really gotten used to it yet.
*'''Route 11?'''
:Route 11 is just like Route 14. Waterfall time!
*'''Opelucid Gate?'''
:Opelucid Gate, really? Er... I seem to remember a man who was always eating something by one of those gates.
*'''Opelucid City?'''
:Opelucid City! That's a great city! I heard that the mayor, Drayden, can teach an amazing Dragon-type move!
*'''Route 9?'''
:Route 9, huh. The toughs that hang out there might challenge you to a Pokémon battle. But you're a tough Trainer yourself, so that works out great for you!
*'''Shopping Mall?'''
:A Shopping Mall? Hm. Now, I wonder why the first thing that came to mind was the storeroom!
*'''Route 14?'''
:You're on Route 14? Then...use Waterfall, right?!
*'''Abundant Shrine?'''
:Now, hm, the Abundant Shrine? The shrine honors the weather Pokémon that is said to watch over harvests...
*'''Undella Bay?'''
:Undella Bay is a famous place to dive! And, on the bottom of the sea... Well, you should see for yourself!
*'''Abyssal Ruins?'''
:The Abyssal Ruins! A mysterious, ancient script! And if you solve its secret, please tell me what it is!
*'''Seaside Cave?'''
:The Seaside Cave, so, so, so... At some point, waves, wind, and Pokémon made that cave in that giant rock.
*'''Marine Tube?'''
:Wow, the Marine Tube! It was just finished recently, I think! It's like a walk-through aquarium! I really want to go see it!
*'''Route 21?'''
:I guess you could say Route 21 is very rocky. It's like a maze. You might find it surprisingly hard to make progress!
*'''Humilau City?'''
:Oh my! You're in Humilau City? That's the nicest of all the resort areas in the Unova region! I was only at the Pokémon Center in that town for a short while.
*'''Route 22?'''
:Route 22 is very lush and green. So that could well indicate that you'll find many different Pokémon there.
*'''Giant Chasm?'''
:The Giant Chasm? Where is that? Where the meteor fell? What? Is that not it? I think I heard something like that from Professor Juniper once, though...
*'''Route 23?'''
:Route 23, huh... It's the last great natural area in the Unova region. Apparently, the path is so steep and dangerous that some people go on and on about it.
*'''Victory Road?'''
:Victory Road! The road that puts you to the test! You'll be fine! You've got Pokémon by your side!
*'''Pokémon League?'''
:The Pokémon League! Oh, my goodness! So, you just have to challenge the Elite Four, and then... Believe in your Pokémon and move forward!
*'''N's Castle?'''
:Pardon me? Where? N's Castle? I'm sorry... I've never heard of it.
*'''Tubeline Bridge?'''
:Did you feel the vibrations of the Tubeline Bridge on the bottom of your feet? It feels like those vibrations give you energy. I just love that feeling!
*'''Route 8?'''
:Route 8's puddles freeze in winter. I liked how you could slide on them, but it was a bit hard to make forward progress!
*'''Moor of Icirrus?'''
:Moor of Icirrus... Moor of Icirrus... What is it? I've heard of it, but I've never been there...
*'''Icirrus City?'''
:Icirrus City, huh... The way the seasons change there is nice. I particularly like how it looks in winter.
*'''Dragonspiral Tower?'''
:Dragonspiral Tower! Wow! You can go inside? Isn't that the place where they say the legendary Pokémon is resting?
*'''Marvelous Bridge?'''
:The Marvelous Bridge has a futuristic design. But I've heard rumors of a ghost there...
*'''Route 15?'''
:Wow, Route 15... The highlight is the Poké Transfer Lab. And I think there was a lady there who would trade Pokémon. Hmm... Could I have misremembered?
*'''Poké Transfer Lab?'''
:The Poké Transfer Lab! Helping Professor Park is a lot of fun, isn't it?
*'''Black Gate?'''
:Black Gate! Pass on through, pass on through to the expansive Black City! So... Yeah... There isn't a ton to say about gates.
*'''White Gate?'''
:White Gate! Pass on through, pass on through to the expansive White Forest! So... Yeah... There isn't a ton to say about gates.
*'''Black City?'''
:black City, huh? I wonder how it has changed.
*'''White Forest?'''
:White Forest, huh? I wonder how it has changed.
*'''Black Tower?'''
:The Black Tower! The so-called Unova's Challenge! How far can you get? With those Pokémon at your side, I'm sure you won't have any trouble!
*'''White Treehollow?'''
:The White Treehollow! The so-called Unova's Challenge! How far can you get? With those Pokémon at your side, I'm sure you won't have any trouble!
*'''Entralink?'''
:''Juniper's words echo, so it cannot be used''
*'''Skyarrow Bridge?'''
:The Skyarrow Bridge is sure amazing. When I saw that the first time... That's right, saw it, not crossed it. I guess at the time I was just astonished.
*'''Pinwheel Forest?'''
:Bug-type Pokémon can be found all over Pinwheel Forest. By the way, it never bugs me to see Bug-type Pokémon!
*'''Nacrene City?'''
:I really like Nacrene City's warehouses, especially Café Warehouse! But, actually, the place you absolutely must visit is the Nacrene Museum.
*'''Nacrene Gate?'''
:Nacrene Gate is a very gate-y gate! Unless you're super obsessed with gates, you can't really tell the difference, though.
*'''Route 3?'''
:The Day Care is on Route 3. There's a preschool there too, right? And what was that other place called? Wellspring Cave, was it? It's on that same route.
*'''Wellspring Cave?'''
:Wellspring Cave... It's small, but exploring deep within the cave is surprisingly difficult.
*'''Striaton City?'''
:I recommend the restaurant in Striaton City! It's run by former Gym Leaders, so I'm sure it's amazing!
*'''Dreamyard?'''
:The Dreamyard... I've heard that rarely seen Pokémon go there. A mysterious power remains that draws them there.
*'''Route 2?'''
:Route 2, eh... I vaguely remember there being some ledges on that route!
*'''Accumula Gate?'''
:Accumula Gate is, um, well... Ummm... Does anything make it different from any other gate?
*'''Accumula Town?'''
:Accumula Town! I remember hearing the pretty sound of someone playing an instrument there.
*'''Route 1?'''
:Route 1... Um, now, what was there? Oh, that's right! Using Surf will take you to an unexpected place!
*'''Nuvema Town?'''
:Wow, Nuvema Town? You must be going to the Juniper Pokémon Lab then, right? Or could you be going to visit my friend's house?
*'''Route 17?'''
:Route 17, is it? The current was so fast, I couldn't go where I wanted...
*'''Route 18?'''
:Route 18! The most interesting thing about it... What could it be?
*'''P2 Laboratory?'''
:P2 Laboratory? I don't know much about that. Could that be the lab on Route 17?
*'''Good-bye.
:OK! Take good care of yourself!
|}

== Quotes missing from XY? ==

I'm playing through Pokémon X now, can anyone tell me exactly what quotes are missing from the Kalos Mom? Or should I find out myself? [[User:TeudowEthan|TeudowEthan]] ([[User talk:TeudowEthan|talk]]) 20:04, 22 March 2014 (UTC)

== Quotes ==

I believe the quotes for Moms with their own page ([[Johanna]], {{kal|Grace}}) be deleted and left on their own page in order to remove redundant content. Thoughts? - [[User:Chosen|Chosen]] of [[User talk:Chosen|Mana]] 18:15, 4 May 2014 (UTC)
:You could also do the opposite. I feel like this page should have "priority" and collect all the quotes for all the moms. (I think whichever page you remove it from should still have a link directly to the page/section where the quotes can still be found, though.) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 18:56, 4 May 2014 (UTC)
::I think the inverse — this is an overview page for several moms, so there's no reason for it to have lots of specific information when a separate article about an individual mom could have that info. As article scopes get broader, the specificity of the info we list on them should lessen (provided that there is an article with narrower scope onto which we can move the info not on the broader-scope article). But I agree that the article without info should link to the one with it, definitely. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 00:49, 5 May 2014 (UTC)
:::Probably the biggest reason I think it'd be "better" for all the quotes to be here is it increases the chance of someone noticing incomplete information for something they weren't specifically looking for. If Grace's quotes are incomplete but that's on her page, someone just seeing this page wouldn't know it. I just like the idea of increasing the chances of someone deciding to add information. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 01:05, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

== HGSS saving amounts ==

I just stored 130568 dollars all at once and I got everything up to the choice scarf [[User:Pokemonisawesome2|Pokemonisawesome2]] ([[User talk:Pokemonisawesome2|talk]]) 17:15, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

Talk:Johto Route 44

2014-06-18T16:21:59Z

Pokemonisawesome2: /* Vance Rematch */

Talk:Johto Route 44

2014-06-18T16:20:01Z

Pokemonisawesome2: /* Vance Rematch */

== Vance Rematch ==
I am rematching bird keeper vance right now and he has diffrent pokemon that arent on the page when you rematch him he has a lv 33 hoothoot male and a lv 32 pidgeotto male should this be added? [[User:Pokemonisawesome2|Pokemonisawesome2]] ([[User talk:Pokemonisawesome2|talk]]) 16:06, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

I didnt see how much money you get for winning though [[User:Pokemonisawesome2|Pokemonisawesome2]] ([[User talk:Pokemonisawesome2|talk]]) 16:07, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

Mabey it would look something like this I am new to this site so idk how stuff really goes down. anyway the chart below is just the one from the article but I added the vince rematch should this replace the one on the page or what?

{{trainerheader|lake}}
{{Trainerentry|Spr DP Psychic M.png|Psychic|Phil|928|2|177|Natu|♂|27|None|064|Kadabra|♂|29|None|36=シュンジ|37=Shunji}}
{{Trainerdiv|lake}}
{{Trainerentry|Spr DP Fisherman.png|Fisherman|Edgar|896|2|223|Remoraid|♂|28|None|223|Remoraid|♂|28|None|36=シュウへイ|37=Shūhei}}
{{Trainerdiv|lake}}
{{Trainerentry|Spr HGSS Ace Trainer F.png|Ace Trainer|Cybil|1740|2|179|Mareep|♀|29|None|182|Bellossom|♀|29|None|36=ノゾミ|37=Nozomi}}
{{Trainerdiv|lake}}
{{Trainerentry|Spr HGSS Ace Trainer M.png|Ace Trainer|Allen|1740|2|005|Charmeleon|♂|29|None|081|Magnemite||29|None|36=ゴウ|37=Gō}}
{{Trainerdiv|lake}}
{{Trainerentry|Spr HGSS Poké Maniac.png|Poké Maniac|Zach|1920|1|111|Rhyhorn|♂|30|None|36=モトフミ|37=Motofumi}}
{{Trainerdiv|lake}}
{{Trainerentry|Spr DP Fisherman.png|Fisherman|[[Wilton]]|896|3|118|Goldeen|♂|26|None|118|Goldeen|♂|26|None|119|Seaking|♂|28|None|36=ヒデノリ|37=Hidenori|38=phone}}
{{Trainerdiv|lake}}
{{Trainerentry|Spr HGSS Bird Keeper.png|Bird Keeper|Vance|896|2|163|Hoothoot|♂|28|None|017|Pidgeotto|♂|28|None|36=モトヒロ|37=Motohiro|38=phone}}
{{Trainerdiv|lake|Rematch}}
{{Trainerentry|Spr DP Fisherman.png|Fisherman|[[Wilton]]|1152|3|118|Goldeen|♂|32|None|118|Goldeen|♂|32|None|119|Seaking|♂|36|None|36=ヒデノリ|37=Hidenori|38=phone}}
{{Trainerdiv|lake}}
{{Trainerentry|Spr HGSS Bird Keeper.png|Bird Keeper|Vance|896|2|163|Hoothoot|♂|33|None|017|Pidgeotto|♂|32|None|36=モトヒロ|37=Motohiro|38=phone}}
{{Trainerfooter|lake|II}}
[[User:Pokemonisawesome2|Pokemonisawesome2]] ([[User talk:Pokemonisawesome2|talk]]) 16:20, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

Talk:Johto Route 44

2014-06-18T16:19:30Z

Pokemonisawesome2: /* Vance Rematch */

== Vance Rematch ==
I am rematching bird keeper vance right now and he has diffrent pokemon that arent on the page when you rematch him he has a lv 33 hoothoot male and a lv 32 pidgeotto male should this be added? [[User:Pokemonisawesome2|Pokemonisawesome2]] ([[User talk:Pokemonisawesome2|talk]]) 16:06, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

I didnt see how much money you get for winning though [[User:Pokemonisawesome2|Pokemonisawesome2]] ([[User talk:Pokemonisawesome2|talk]]) 16:07, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

Mabey it would look something like this I am new to this site so idk how stuff really goes down. anyway the chart below is just the one from the article but I added the vince rematch should this replace the one on the page or what?

{{trainerheader|lake}}
{{Trainerentry|Spr DP Psychic M.png|Psychic|Phil|928|2|177|Natu|♂|27|None|064|Kadabra|♂|29|None|36=シュンジ|37=Shunji}}
{{Trainerdiv|lake}}
{{Trainerentry|Spr DP Fisherman.png|Fisherman|Edgar|896|2|223|Remoraid|♂|28|None|223|Remoraid|♂|28|None|36=シュウへイ|37=Shūhei}}
{{Trainerdiv|lake}}
{{Trainerentry|Spr HGSS Ace Trainer F.png|Ace Trainer|Cybil|1740|2|179|Mareep|♀|29|None|182|Bellossom|♀|29|None|36=ノゾミ|37=Nozomi}}
{{Trainerdiv|lake}}
{{Trainerentry|Spr HGSS Ace Trainer M.png|Ace Trainer|Allen|1740|2|005|Charmeleon|♂|29|None|081|Magnemite||29|None|36=ゴウ|37=Gō}}
{{Trainerdiv|lake}}
{{Trainerentry|Spr HGSS Poké Maniac.png|Poké Maniac|Zach|1920|1|111|Rhyhorn|♂|30|None|36=モトフミ|37=Motofumi}}
{{Trainerdiv|lake}}
{{Trainerentry|Spr DP Fisherman.png|Fisherman|[[Wilton]]|896|3|118|Goldeen|♂|26|None|118|Goldeen|♂|26|None|119|Seaking|♂|28|None|36=ヒデノリ|37=Hidenori|38=phone}}
{{Trainerdiv|lake}}
{{Trainerentry|Spr HGSS Bird Keeper.png|Bird Keeper|Vance|896|2|163|Hoothoot|♂|28|None|017|Pidgeotto|♂|28|None|36=モトヒロ|37=Motohiro|38=phone}}
{{Trainerdiv|lake|Rematch}}
{{Trainerentry|Spr DP Fisherman.png|Fisherman|[[Wilton]]|1152|3|118|Goldeen|♂|32|None|118|Goldeen|♂|32|None|119|Seaking|♂|36|None|36=ヒデノリ|37=Hidenori|38=phone}}
{{Trainerdiv|lake}}
{{Trainerentry|Spr HGSS Bird Keeper.png|Bird Keeper|Vance|896|2|163|Hoothoot|♂|33|None|017|Pidgeotto|♂|32|None|36=モトヒロ|37=Motohiro|38=phone}}
{{Trainerfooter|lake|II}}

Talk:Johto Route 44

2014-06-18T16:07:56Z

Pokemonisawesome2: /* Vance Rematch */

Talk:Johto Route 44

2014-06-18T16:06:23Z

Pokemonisawesome2: /* Vance Rematch */

Talk:Johto Route 44

2014-06-18T16:06:03Z

Pokemonisawesome2: Created page with " == Vance Rematch == I am rematching bird keeper vance right now and he has diffrent pokemon that arent on the page when you rematch him he has a lv 33 hoothoot male and a lv..."