Bulbapedia - User contributions [en]

Talk:Rotom (Pokémon)

2026-05-22T15:16:10Z

Neos: /* Stereo Rotom */

{{Talk header
| archives = [[Talk:Rotom (Pokémon)/Archive 1|1]] • [[Talk:Rotom (Pokémon)/Archive 2|2]]
}}

== Stereo Rotom ==

I don't think we should put rotom in its stereo form has one of it main forms, it hasn't appeared in a main line game only in Pokétopia. [[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 21:46, 24 March 2026 (UTC)

:It's worth noting that the article is about the species; and is not limited to its appearance in any game or subset of games (though of course this information is covered). Pokopia is a game developed by Game Freak, but more importantly it has characteristics that are unique to it (specifically its typing), that is relevant to display in the infobox at a species level. '''[[User:4iamking|4iamking]]''' 22:13, 24 March 2026 (UTC)
::Then, with the reasoning that it has a type and that it is a form that appeared in games (albeit, in a not main tittle), then why not change the overall display of relevant forms to include the Rotom Phone, the Rotom Pokédex Form or even the Rotom Bike Form. All these forms are also relevant to display in the infobox at a species level too by that logic, and yet we keep them separated. If we go by the typing there was revealed in official media that its Pokédex form is a pure electric type, if we go by involvement in the plot and dialog it also participates in SM and in USUM. [[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 21:42, 25 March 2026 (UTC)
:::I think whether they appear in a Pokédex would be a good criterion. [[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']] 23:15, 25 March 2026 (UTC)
::::Just like Bloodmoon Ursaluna. It’s a unique Pokémon form. Hence it counts plus adds fun lore and shows how unique it adapts and changes, epically with type change. [[User:Jacob9594|Jacob9594 ]] ([[User talk:Jacob9594|talk]]) 00:18, 26 March 2026 (UTC)
:::::Yes, but thats it, Bloodmoon Ursaluna is Catchable and usable in battle, the Stereo Form is different, is not usable. It's like we put a picture of XD001 in the man box at the top for Lugia's Bulbapedia page. [[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 23:18, 27 March 2026 (UTC)
::::::Except we never did for Shadow Lugia. It’s just on the forms page, like Primal Dialga for example. And the two new Pikachu duo from upcoming Winds and Waves. So just remove the stereo Rotom from top of Rotom page and that should solve problem? Plus Tinkataon has the same thing but no form section of Tinkmaster. [[User:Jacob9594|Jacob9594 ]] ([[User talk:Jacob9594|talk]]) 23:23, 27 March 2026 (UTC)
:::::::Shadow Lugia's exclusion from the infobox is because it doesn't exist within the core series. The infobox is pretty much exclusively for core series game data, so spin-off exclusive forms are a little out of place there. Shadow Lugia is covered in the biology section, which is still near the top of the page and is meant to be media-agnostic, so it makes sense to include it there.
:::::::Since we don't know yet if Stereo Rotom (or any of the other Pokopia forms for that matter) is going to appear outside of this game, I think we should take the more conservative approach and not include it in the infobox unless it shows up in the core series. All of its unique data can fit comfortably in the biology section. Pokopia has a lot more connections to the core series than most spin-offs, but it is still a spin-off at the end of the day. [[User:Storm Aurora|'''Storm Aurora''']] ([[User talk:Storm Aurora|talk]]) 00:16, 28 March 2026 (UTC)
::::::::That is fair compromise and any spin off forms will be placed in biology instead. [[User:Jacob9594|Jacob9594 ]] ([[User talk:Jacob9594|talk]]) 01:09, 28 March 2026 (UTC)
:::::::::Then, shall we take out Stereo Rotom from the infobox along side the other forms of Pokémon introduced in Poketopia? [[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 07:48, 28 March 2026 (UTC)
:''(reset ident)'' I disagree, I dont think Wave/Windchu would be relevant for the infobox regardless of their main series inclusion since at this point they are just merely a character, unless those characters are confirmed to be unique forms, which is something that at this point we don't know. This is kinda also true with Primal Dialga / Shadow Lugia. Pokopia has Stereo Rotom as a distinct form which is a seperate entity from DJ Rotom (the character). '''[[User:4iamking|4iamking]]''' 12:02, 28 March 2026 (UTC)
::also I want to say, "Usable in battle" isn't a standard we have used in the past; if that were the case we'd have to remove Eternamax Eternatus from its infobox. Overall I still stand by that we should consider it a form when an in-game Pokédex does so (and this is not the case for either Lugia nor Dialga). '''[[User:4iamking|4iamking]]''' 17:01, 28 March 2026 (UTC)
:::Are the costumed Pokémon in Pokémon GO considered separate forms in GO's Pokédex? If so, we'd need to put them in the infobox, by your logic. Even if not, saying "it has to be in an in-game Pokédex" as the only criteria feels like a bit of an arbitrary line to draw. That would mean Pale Pikachu could be included because it has a Pokédex entry in Pokopia, but Halloween Pikachu would be excluded because it only has a "Sleep Style Dex" entry in Pokémon Sleep. [[User:Storm Aurora|'''Storm Aurora''']] ([[User talk:Storm Aurora|talk]]) 17:37, 28 March 2026 (UTC)
::::Oh, and we'd have to remove Partner Pikachu from the infobox too, since Pikachu's page directly states "The partner Pikachu is not differentiated from standard Pikachu in Pokémon: Let's Go, Pikachu! and Let's Go, Eevee!'s Pokédex."
::::To be clear, I'm not saying this to bash Pokopia or anything; I love the game, and I think it's really interesting that it gives distinct form names different than what the characters are named. But I don't think that alone is a good enough reason to include them in the infobox. [[User:Storm Aurora|'''Storm Aurora''']] ([[User talk:Storm Aurora|talk]]) 17:46, 28 March 2026 (UTC)
:::::I mean PGO shows it as a variant but it doesnt have them as a form with unique flavour text, I don't see it as the same thing. To be clear I feel that distinction matters because Pokopia gives unique data (height, weight, typing, flavour text) these are parameters that differentiate the species, are directly included in the infobox data and are not present in the other examples you had listed. '''[[User:4iamking|4iamking]]''' 18:18, 28 March 2026 (UTC)
::::::Agree. The infobox is the place for most Pokédex data, whereas other kinds of
::::::data would get there own boxes in the Game data section. No need to arbitrarily split out Pokopia's data from the infobox just because it's a spin-off. [[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']] 18:28, 28 March 2026 (UTC)
:::::::I doubt the exclusion of Shadow Lugia was specifically because it's not a core series thing. (I don't think it was a conscious decision/discussion in the first place.) I'd rather assume it's because the accompanied data that usually goes with it isn't/wasn't there, and maybe that's why people didn't put it.
:::::::I'd certainly support Stereo Rotom being included. (And I don't think we necessarily have to spell out a strict "rule" about it.) [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 14:09, 29 March 2026 (UTC)
:::::::I would argue that including a form that has never appeared in the core series in the intro of the page is actively misleading and unhelpful when everything else in intros for Pokémon pages is very specifically focused on core series information (evolution methods, form change methods, EV yields, etc.), that's the information these sections are clearly for and is what people are expecting to see in them. It's also misleading to include in a list of forms prefaced by mentions of Rotom's Room and the Rotom Catalog when these things have never included the Stereo Rotom form. There's nothing "arbitrary" about separating spin-off information from core series information, it's established practice on the wiki (look at all the sections on the page under "Game data" being split between core series and spin-offs) and is helpful for conveying information clearly. I'd be fine with an extra paragraph at the end of the intro talking about Stereo Rotom and its type but we should absolutely remove it from the infobox and stop pretending like it's a part of the core series like the other forms. [[User:Hewer|Hewer]] ([[User talk:Hewer|talk]]) 18:51, 29 March 2026 (UTC)
::::::::I dont think it's good to equate the infobox as a "core series only place". The infobox should have key data from the subject of the article and in this case the article is about the species of Pokémon in general, it's not called "Rotom in the Core Series". Other game data is separated lower down in the article as it should be, but for high level infobox data, it shouldn't matter where it comes from. I have no problem however changing the wording in the lede to more clearly emphasize that Stereo Rotom is currently a Pokopia exclusive. '''[[User:4iamking|4iamking]]''' 19:51, 29 March 2026 (UTC)
:::::::::So why does the infobox contain fairly trivial data applicable exclusively to the core series like Egg cycles and EV yields and levelling rates and Pokédex body shapes, while having a complete lack of non-core series data? Why is the catch rate the one from the core series and not the one from Pokémon GO? Why doesn't it list the Pokémon's anime debut or Pokémon Sleep sleep style? And why is the whole rest of the lead section written exclusively from the perspective of the core series (on every Pokémon article)? [[User:Hewer|Hewer]] ([[User talk:Hewer|talk]]) 23:00, 29 March 2026 (UTC)
(Resetting indent) It's been about a month since this discussion has continued and I'd like to continue it.

I personally think it's rather awkward to put Stereo Rotom on the infobox, BUT I am rather content on the reasoning being because that it displays unique information on it. But we do not really do this with any other spin-off or unique forms. Pokopia DOES display it as a unique form, and maybe that's enough, where as Windychu and Waveychu are not. We do not display [[Zygarde Core]]s and [[Zygarde Cell|Cell]]s, and they are not listed as forms. Additionally an argument from the quick read is that we don't display *characters* on the info box (assuming they aren't treated as forms, as technically Eternal Flower {{p|Floette}}, [[Cosplay Pikachu]] and {{p|Ursaluna}} (Bloodmoon) would fall under these), however [[DJ Rotom]] is the only Stereo Rotom we know of, and we don't have things like {{p|Pikachu}} (Pale) on there despite [[Peakychu]] having arguably all the same uniqueness as Rotom does other than she doesn't have a new type, and a new type doesn't need to be introduced to make it a unique form (Basculin White-Stripe anyone?). [[Rotom Pokédex]] can contain any Rotom just like Stereo Rotom, and it is not shown in the infobox, additional it has a type change like it, being pure Electric-Type. Is it not listed because it's a specific character in context to the main series? I feel like there is a lot of double standards here. I am PERSONALLY under the assumption that the info box should only hold core series information that is usable in most contexts, primarily anything in the core series (and by extension HOME and Bank) Pokedexes.

Part of the above discussions seems to have debate on it being only core series. But debatable, most of the information there is only for the core serie, it's already inconsistent (the first thing I can think of is Mega Stones are listed but not species-exclusive Z-Crystals). I don't think our spin-off readers will really read the info box for their content other than to know they're on the right species page. Every Pokemon already has a link on the top of the page telling them to go to the Pokémon GO section, and every other spin-off is listed there too with their mechanics and type and everything. Wouldit be hard to add a Pokopia section explaining what they do in that game? [[User:TrainerSplash|TrainerSplash]] ([[User talk:TrainerSplash|talk]]) 23:19, 21 May 2026 (UTC)

:Pikachu (Pale) is in its infobox though and also has unique form characteristics (namely a lower weight). Wind/Wavechu will likely also end up in the infobox, the way they have been referred to in japanese media is highly suggestive that they are likely to be considered forms as well as being characters, but we are also in no hurry to jump the gun until we have more concrete things to run off. Its also not inconsistent because Z-Crystals upgrade certain moves but they don't affect a Pokémons form. '''[[User:4iamking|4iamking]]''' 08:24, 22 May 2026 (UTC)
::Exactly, we should hold our guns, and I think that people got overexcited with the Pokopia forms, so they just treated them has main series forms when it hasn't been confirmed by main game series appearances, when it seems that they are just gonna stay in Pokopia has characters and not distinct forms. Particularly just adding the forms without people agreed on this seems like a rush, is like adding anime exclusive forms into the main infobox, is unnecessary and unhelpful and obscures important information on the page giving way more importance to a form that is '''NOT''' '''USABLE''' in core series gameplay or competitive gameplay has of now or comaptilbe with Pokémon GO or HOME. Also I notice that instead of pulling it from the infobox and wait until the to the end of the debate or pulling it up to a vote by putting a banner on the top of the page has other pages with structural topics have, instead the page was keep from reverting the infobox to the state prior to the it's inclusion and does not indicate of ongoing discussion. [[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 15:09, 22 May 2026 (UTC)

== Sprites section ==
Would it be better to group each of the forms together in separate boxes in the Sprites section, similar to Furfrou - and speaking of which, should they be on a subpage like [[Furfrou (Pokémon)/Sprites]]? Also, along with several other Gen 8/HOME sprites, there's a lot of empty space - would be good to find a solution there.[[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']] 16:58, 21 April 2026 (UTC)

:I agree that something should be done; but I think I'd prefer using tabber to hide the different forms between different tabs to me would be preferable over shipping them off to a subpage. '''[[User:4iamking|4iamking]]''' 19:03, 21 April 2026 (UTC)

Talk:Rotom (Pokémon)

2026-05-22T15:09:13Z

Neos: /* Stereo Rotom */ Reply

{{Talk header
| archives = [[Talk:Rotom (Pokémon)/Archive 1|1]] • [[Talk:Rotom (Pokémon)/Archive 2|2]]
}}

== Stereo Rotom ==

I don't think we should put rotom in its stereo form has one of it main forms, it hasn't appeared in a main line game only in Pokétopia. [[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 21:46, 24 March 2026 (UTC)

:It's worth noting that the article is about the species; and is not limited to its appearance in any game or subset of games (though of course this information is covered). Pokopia is a game developed by Game Freak, but more importantly it has characteristics that are unique to it (specifically its typing), that is relevant to display in the infobox at a species level. '''[[User:4iamking|4iamking]]''' 22:13, 24 March 2026 (UTC)
::Then, with the reasoning that it has a type and that it is a form that appeared in games (albeit, in a not main tittle), then why not change the overall display of relevant forms to include the Rotom Phone, the Rotom Pokédex Form or even the Rotom Bike Form. All these forms are also relevant to display in the infobox at a species level too by that logic, and yet we keep them separated. If we go by the typing there was revealed in official media that its Pokédex form is a pure electric type, if we go by involvement in the plot and dialog it also participates in SM and in USUM. [[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 21:42, 25 March 2026 (UTC)
:::I think whether they appear in a Pokédex would be a good criterion. [[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']] 23:15, 25 March 2026 (UTC)
::::Just like Bloodmoon Ursaluna. It’s a unique Pokémon form. Hence it counts plus adds fun lore and shows how unique it adapts and changes, epically with type change. [[User:Jacob9594|Jacob9594 ]] ([[User talk:Jacob9594|talk]]) 00:18, 26 March 2026 (UTC)
:::::Yes, but thats it, Bloodmoon Ursaluna is Catchable and usable in battle, the Stereo Form is different, is not usable. It's like we put a picture of XD001 in the man box at the top for Lugia's Bulbapedia page. [[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 23:18, 27 March 2026 (UTC)
::::::Except we never did for Shadow Lugia. It’s just on the forms page, like Primal Dialga for example. And the two new Pikachu duo from upcoming Winds and Waves. So just remove the stereo Rotom from top of Rotom page and that should solve problem? Plus Tinkataon has the same thing but no form section of Tinkmaster. [[User:Jacob9594|Jacob9594 ]] ([[User talk:Jacob9594|talk]]) 23:23, 27 March 2026 (UTC)
:::::::Shadow Lugia's exclusion from the infobox is because it doesn't exist within the core series. The infobox is pretty much exclusively for core series game data, so spin-off exclusive forms are a little out of place there. Shadow Lugia is covered in the biology section, which is still near the top of the page and is meant to be media-agnostic, so it makes sense to include it there.
:::::::Since we don't know yet if Stereo Rotom (or any of the other Pokopia forms for that matter) is going to appear outside of this game, I think we should take the more conservative approach and not include it in the infobox unless it shows up in the core series. All of its unique data can fit comfortably in the biology section. Pokopia has a lot more connections to the core series than most spin-offs, but it is still a spin-off at the end of the day. [[User:Storm Aurora|'''Storm Aurora''']] ([[User talk:Storm Aurora|talk]]) 00:16, 28 March 2026 (UTC)
::::::::That is fair compromise and any spin off forms will be placed in biology instead. [[User:Jacob9594|Jacob9594 ]] ([[User talk:Jacob9594|talk]]) 01:09, 28 March 2026 (UTC)
:::::::::Then, shall we take out Stereo Rotom from the infobox along side the other forms of Pokémon introduced in Poketopia? [[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 07:48, 28 March 2026 (UTC)
:''(reset ident)'' I disagree, I dont think Wave/Windchu would be relevant for the infobox regardless of their main series inclusion since at this point they are just merely a character, unless those characters are confirmed to be unique forms, which is something that at this point we don't know. This is kinda also true with Primal Dialga / Shadow Lugia. Pokopia has Stereo Rotom as a distinct form which is a seperate entity from DJ Rotom (the character). '''[[User:4iamking|4iamking]]''' 12:02, 28 March 2026 (UTC)
::also I want to say, "Usable in battle" isn't a standard we have used in the past; if that were the case we'd have to remove Eternamax Eternatus from its infobox. Overall I still stand by that we should consider it a form when an in-game Pokédex does so (and this is not the case for either Lugia nor Dialga). '''[[User:4iamking|4iamking]]''' 17:01, 28 March 2026 (UTC)
:::Are the costumed Pokémon in Pokémon GO considered separate forms in GO's Pokédex? If so, we'd need to put them in the infobox, by your logic. Even if not, saying "it has to be in an in-game Pokédex" as the only criteria feels like a bit of an arbitrary line to draw. That would mean Pale Pikachu could be included because it has a Pokédex entry in Pokopia, but Halloween Pikachu would be excluded because it only has a "Sleep Style Dex" entry in Pokémon Sleep. [[User:Storm Aurora|'''Storm Aurora''']] ([[User talk:Storm Aurora|talk]]) 17:37, 28 March 2026 (UTC)
::::Oh, and we'd have to remove Partner Pikachu from the infobox too, since Pikachu's page directly states "The partner Pikachu is not differentiated from standard Pikachu in Pokémon: Let's Go, Pikachu! and Let's Go, Eevee!'s Pokédex."
::::To be clear, I'm not saying this to bash Pokopia or anything; I love the game, and I think it's really interesting that it gives distinct form names different than what the characters are named. But I don't think that alone is a good enough reason to include them in the infobox. [[User:Storm Aurora|'''Storm Aurora''']] ([[User talk:Storm Aurora|talk]]) 17:46, 28 March 2026 (UTC)
:::::I mean PGO shows it as a variant but it doesnt have them as a form with unique flavour text, I don't see it as the same thing. To be clear I feel that distinction matters because Pokopia gives unique data (height, weight, typing, flavour text) these are parameters that differentiate the species, are directly included in the infobox data and are not present in the other examples you had listed. '''[[User:4iamking|4iamking]]''' 18:18, 28 March 2026 (UTC)
::::::Agree. The infobox is the place for most Pokédex data, whereas other kinds of
::::::data would get there own boxes in the Game data section. No need to arbitrarily split out Pokopia's data from the infobox just because it's a spin-off. [[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']] 18:28, 28 March 2026 (UTC)
:::::::I doubt the exclusion of Shadow Lugia was specifically because it's not a core series thing. (I don't think it was a conscious decision/discussion in the first place.) I'd rather assume it's because the accompanied data that usually goes with it isn't/wasn't there, and maybe that's why people didn't put it.
:::::::I'd certainly support Stereo Rotom being included. (And I don't think we necessarily have to spell out a strict "rule" about it.) [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 14:09, 29 March 2026 (UTC)
:::::::I would argue that including a form that has never appeared in the core series in the intro of the page is actively misleading and unhelpful when everything else in intros for Pokémon pages is very specifically focused on core series information (evolution methods, form change methods, EV yields, etc.), that's the information these sections are clearly for and is what people are expecting to see in them. It's also misleading to include in a list of forms prefaced by mentions of Rotom's Room and the Rotom Catalog when these things have never included the Stereo Rotom form. There's nothing "arbitrary" about separating spin-off information from core series information, it's established practice on the wiki (look at all the sections on the page under "Game data" being split between core series and spin-offs) and is helpful for conveying information clearly. I'd be fine with an extra paragraph at the end of the intro talking about Stereo Rotom and its type but we should absolutely remove it from the infobox and stop pretending like it's a part of the core series like the other forms. [[User:Hewer|Hewer]] ([[User talk:Hewer|talk]]) 18:51, 29 March 2026 (UTC)
::::::::I dont think it's good to equate the infobox as a "core series only place". The infobox should have key data from the subject of the article and in this case the article is about the species of Pokémon in general, it's not called "Rotom in the Core Series". Other game data is separated lower down in the article as it should be, but for high level infobox data, it shouldn't matter where it comes from. I have no problem however changing the wording in the lede to more clearly emphasize that Stereo Rotom is currently a Pokopia exclusive. '''[[User:4iamking|4iamking]]''' 19:51, 29 March 2026 (UTC)
:::::::::So why does the infobox contain fairly trivial data applicable exclusively to the core series like Egg cycles and EV yields and levelling rates and Pokédex body shapes, while having a complete lack of non-core series data? Why is the catch rate the one from the core series and not the one from Pokémon GO? Why doesn't it list the Pokémon's anime debut or Pokémon Sleep sleep style? And why is the whole rest of the lead section written exclusively from the perspective of the core series (on every Pokémon article)? [[User:Hewer|Hewer]] ([[User talk:Hewer|talk]]) 23:00, 29 March 2026 (UTC)
(Resetting indent) It's been about a month since this discussion has continued and I'd like to continue it.

I personally think it's rather awkward to put Stereo Rotom on the infobox, BUT I am rather content on the reasoning being because that it displays unique information on it. But we do not really do this with any other spin-off or unique forms. Pokopia DOES display it as a unique form, and maybe that's enough, where as Windychu and Waveychu are not. We do not display [[Zygarde Core]]s and [[Zygarde Cell|Cell]]s, and they are not listed as forms. Additionally an argument from the quick read is that we don't display *characters* on the info box (assuming they aren't treated as forms, as technically Eternal Flower {{p|Floette}}, [[Cosplay Pikachu]] and {{p|Ursaluna}} (Bloodmoon) would fall under these), however [[DJ Rotom]] is the only Stereo Rotom we know of, and we don't have things like {{p|Pikachu}} (Pale) on there despite [[Peakychu]] having arguably all the same uniqueness as Rotom does other than she doesn't have a new type, and a new type doesn't need to be introduced to make it a unique form (Basculin White-Stripe anyone?). [[Rotom Pokédex]] can contain any Rotom just like Stereo Rotom, and it is not shown in the infobox, additional it has a type change like it, being pure Electric-Type. Is it not listed because it's a specific character in context to the main series? I feel like there is a lot of double standards here. I am PERSONALLY under the assumption that the info box should only hold core series information that is usable in most contexts, primarily anything in the core series (and by extension HOME and Bank) Pokedexes.

Part of the above discussions seems to have debate on it being only core series. But debatable, most of the information there is only for the core serie, it's already inconsistent (the first thing I can think of is Mega Stones are listed but not species-exclusive Z-Crystals). I don't think our spin-off readers will really read the info box for their content other than to know they're on the right species page. Every Pokemon already has a link on the top of the page telling them to go to the Pokémon GO section, and every other spin-off is listed there too with their mechanics and type and everything. Wouldit be hard to add a Pokopia section explaining what they do in that game? [[User:TrainerSplash|TrainerSplash]] ([[User talk:TrainerSplash|talk]]) 23:19, 21 May 2026 (UTC)

:Pikachu (Pale) is in its infobox though and also has unique form characteristics (namely a lower weight). Wind/Wavechu will likely also end up in the infobox, the way they have been referred to in japanese media is highly suggestive that they are likely to be considered forms as well as being characters, but we are also in no hurry to jump the gun until we have more concrete things to run off. Its also not inconsistent because Z-Crystals upgrade certain moves but they don't affect a Pokémons form. '''[[User:4iamking|4iamking]]''' 08:24, 22 May 2026 (UTC)
::Exactly, we should hold our guns, and I think that people got overexcited with the Pokopia forms, so they just treated them has main series forms when it hasn't been confirmed by main game series appearances, when it seems that they are just gonna stay in Pokopia has characters and not distinct forms. Particularly just adding the forms without people agreed on this seems like a rush, is like adding anime exclusive forms into the main infobox, is unnecessary and unhelpful and obscures important information on the page giving way more importance to a form that is '''NOT''' '''USABLE''' in core series gameplay or competitive gameplay has of now. Also I notice that instead of pulling it from the infobox and wait until the to the end of the debate or pulling it up to a vote by putting a banner on the top of the page has other pages with structural topics have, instead the page was keep from reverting the infobox to the state prior to the it's inclusion and does not indicate of ongoing discussion. [[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 15:09, 22 May 2026 (UTC)

== Sprites section ==
Would it be better to group each of the forms together in separate boxes in the Sprites section, similar to Furfrou - and speaking of which, should they be on a subpage like [[Furfrou (Pokémon)/Sprites]]? Also, along with several other Gen 8/HOME sprites, there's a lot of empty space - would be good to find a solution there.[[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']] 16:58, 21 April 2026 (UTC)

:I agree that something should be done; but I think I'd prefer using tabber to hide the different forms between different tabs to me would be preferable over shipping them off to a subpage. '''[[User:4iamking|4iamking]]''' 19:03, 21 April 2026 (UTC)

Talk:Rotom (Pokémon)/Archive 2

2026-03-28T07:48:34Z

Neos: /* Stereo Rotom */ Reply

{{Talk header
| archives = [[/Archive 1|1]]
}}

== Unprotect ==

When can this be unprotected? *[[User:Tc26|tc]][[User talk:Tc26|26]]* 12:14, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
 *[[User:Tc26|tc]][[User talk:Tc26|26]]* 16:09, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
:Could an admin also fix up the new stats-box? Rotom's the only one not updated. — [[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|THE TROM]] — 20:04, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
::Can this be unprotected anytime soon I wanna make the in the anime part now...[[User:Rucario64|Rucario]][[User Talk:Rucario64|64]] 17:39, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
:::This page isn't unprotected yet? [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 19:40, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

== Legendary? ==

I know this has been discussed before but since the main argument for Rotom not being legendary was its stats but now that it can change forms (a trait shared with several legendary Pokémon) that all have better stats ("almost making them analogous to evolutions") should this discussion be reopened.--[[User:MisterE13|Mister]][[User talk:MisterE13|'''E''']][[Special:Contributions/MisterE13|13]] 01:11, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
:No. Not a legendary.[[User:DCM|DCM]][[User talk:DCM|((曲奇饼妖怪]][[Special:Contributions/DCM|Spy on My Edits))]]
::Shall we bring this up on the Castform talk page too then? What about Cherrim and Burmy? Rotom isn't legendary, it's just the Gen IV version of Snorlax, Sudowoodo and Kecleon (without the annoying blocking of your path thing). — [[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|THE TROM]] — 01:44, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
:::The main argument was the new stats and ''event'' status. At least I new better than to edit the article outright. If nothing else, it is the first ''non''-legendary to have had new forms unlocked through events.--[[User:MisterE13|Mister]][[User talk:MisterE13|'''E''']][[Special:Contributions/MisterE13|13]] 02:41, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
::::Well, technically, the official DP Pokédex released by Nintendo/Gamefreak/TVTokyo stated that Rotom was a Legendary Pokémon, but yeah, it's doubtful that it is one. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 02:59, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
::::: Then so is arcanine. Get working on that children[[User:DCM|DCM]][[User talk:DCM|((曲奇饼妖怪]][[Special:Contributions/DCM|Spy on My Edits))]]
:::::: Actually, I was referring to this (It still labels it as the Plasma pokémon, BTW.)

:::::: 

::::::[[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]]03:05, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
I realized a while ago that here we didn't refer to it as legendary and respected that, I was just wondering if it was just because of its {{tt|''awful'' stats|which are better with the new forms}} as well as the new EVENT status.--[[User:MisterE13|Mister]][[User talk:MisterE13|'''E''']][[Special:Contributions/MisterE13|13]] 03:11, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

its legendary. duh. sure the booked said delibird was a legendary but in the lineup it wasent there and rotom was there. [[User:ArceusEX|ArceusEX]] 20:49, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
:Oh no, don't start ''that'' again...--The [[Delibird (Pokémon)|Kk]][[Stantler (Pokémon)|ll]][[Santa Claus|nn]][[User:Kkllnn|ator]] [[User Talk:Kkllnn| サンタクロース]] 20:52, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

::: well i brung it up hah [[User:ArceusEX|ArceusEX]] 21:11, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
::::Sorry, I know this sort of thing brings out the worst in certain bulbapedians (^). But really, what are the remaining arguments? It's stats aren't awful anymore so it can't be that. Also, if this discussion still ends with it not being legendary, could an Admin please add that '''Rotom is the first non-legendary Pokémon to have an alternate form that requires activation from an event'''.--[[User:MisterE13|Mister]][[User talk:MisterE13|'''E''']][[Special:Contributions/MisterE13|13]] 21:24, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
:::::Well, if you look in the deletion log for {{u|Timer/Rotom's Status|one of the most useless pages in history}}, apparently Pokemon.com said it wasn't legendary. And EX, did the book have the official Nintendo Seal on it? Didn't think so. Now, ''better'' handbooks, which actually ''have'' the seal on them, say that 'Tom is ''not'' a legendary.--The [[Delibird (Pokémon)|Kk]][[Stantler (Pokémon)|ll]][[Santa Claus|nn]][[User:Kkllnn|ator]] [[User Talk:Kkllnn| サンタクロース]] 21:28, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
::::::Well, I don't know about you, but I think the official copyright that he mentioned is good enough for me. I mean, what's the point in even making a copyright if the person/company in question didn't ACTUALLY create it? Besides, the official Seal of Nintendo isn't going to apply anyways, as Nintendo didn't actually create Pokémon (it was gamefreak). All they did was allow it on their systems. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 21:38, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
:::::::In that case, could someone please add the trivia.--[[User:MisterE13|Mister]][[User talk:MisterE13|'''E''']][[Special:Contributions/MisterE13|13]] 23:15, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
::::::::I already did a long time ago. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 23:24, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::We already decided this, Didnt we? Its not a legendary, unless Arcanine is one ({{tt|similar species name|hell, its even listed with Articuno, Zapdos, and MOltres}}[[User:DCM|DCM]][[User talk:DCM|((曲奇饼妖怪]][[Special:Contributions/DCM|Spy on My Edits))]]
::::::::::It is not legendary, end of story. ''[[User:Maverick Nate|'''Maverick''']][[User talk:Maverick Nate|'''Nate''']]'' 00:05, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::::No, I mean say '''Rotom is the only non-legendary to be considered "event only"'''.--[[User:MisterE13|Mister]][[User talk:MisterE13|'''E''']][[Special:Contributions/MisterE13|13]] 00:54, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
::::::::::::LIES! Rotom can be captured, only his other formes, not officially in the Dex, therefore not new pokemon, cant be captured[[User:DCM|DCM]][[User talk:DCM|((曲奇饼妖怪]][[Special:Contributions/DCM|Spy on My Edits))]]
:::::::::::::To quote the page:"''As of the official Japanese tournament held in 2008, all Rotom forms have been banned from official tournaments. This is due to the special status of the alternate forms as event-exclusive Pokémon.''" I understand what you mean DCM, but I'm just using what we already have.--[[User:MisterE13|Mister]][[User talk:MisterE13|'''E''']][[Special:Contributions/MisterE13|13]] 01:03, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
::::::::::::::But it doesnt have its own distinctive entry in the pokedex. Therefore, not a pokemon, just a variant of one.[[User:DCM|DCM]][[User talk:DCM|((曲奇饼妖怪]][[Special:Contributions/DCM|Spy on My Edits))]]
(Gettin' cramped) the--[[User:Vik0z0z|vik0z0z]] 20:58, 8 February 2009 (UTC)n put first/only Pokémon with alternate forms only available through an event. I was just using the {{tt|wording we already had in the article|change that too if necessary}}.--[[User:MisterE13|Mister]][[User talk:MisterE13|'''E''']][[Special:Contributions/MisterE13|13]] 01:13, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
:Double check that.[[User:DCM|DCM]][[User talk:DCM|((曲奇饼妖怪]][[Special:Contributions/DCM|Spy on My Edits))]]

is there any way we can truly find out if it is a legendary or not? [[User:Vik0z0z|vik0z0z]] 23:26, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
and i consider it semi-legendary like unown or lucario.

also the way you obtain Rotom is like most legendaries, because you have to go up to a T.V. and then a battle starts, do you get what i'm saying?
and an '''''Bold text''OFFICIAL''' nintendo handbook says Rotom is legendary
and Rotom has legendary battle music!!!! [[User:Vik0z0z|vik0z0z]] 23:31, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
:*refrains from using caps* no, it isn't. The music {{p|Cresselia|means}} {{p|Shaymin|nothing}}. Goodbye.--[[Flash Fire (ability)|freezing]][[Heat Wave (move)|COLD]] ([[user:Cold|page]], [[User talk:Cold|talk]]) 23:37, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

so, there is no way we can truly find out if it is a legendary? [[User:Vik0z0z|vik0z0z]] 23:59, 3 February 2009 (UTC) [[User:Vik0z0z|vik0z0z]] 23:59, 3 February 2009 (UTC) [[User:Vik0z0z|vik0z0z]] 23:59, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

:Even without the Legendary music, there's still the fact that it was mentioned to be a Legendary in an official handbook that was made not only by nintendo, but TVTokyo and even Gamefreak, the ones who actually created Pokémon in the first place. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 00:50, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

what i'm saying is that you have to activate rotom (in a way) and then battle him.
how many non-legendary pokemon do that!?--[[User:Vik0z0z|vik0z0z]] 20:58, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
:{{p|Snorlax}}, {{p|Sudowoodo}}. As much as I'd like to think Rotom's legendary, that argument doesn't cut it around here.--[[User:MisterE13|Mister]][[User talk:MisterE13|'''E''']][[Special:Contributions/MisterE13|13]] 21:13, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

why would nintendo make such a big deal out of rotom in platinum if he wasnt legendary. {{unsigned|Vik0z0z}}
:To make little fanboys and fangirls argue about it on Bulbapedia talkpages. Look guys, there is no official confirmation otherwise, so we have to take it as ''unlegendary'', as that is what ''most'' of the information leads to. Yes, there are points on both sides, but with no ''official'' confirmation, we can't do anything. The discussion here is becoming best suited to the forums and further comments will be deleted. Thanks. — [[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|THE TROM]] — 06:53, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
::Doesn't that Guidebook count as official information? I mean, from the Copyright notice that someone posted in the archives that TV Tokyo, Nintendo, and even Gamefreak had a hand at making the book. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 10:03, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
:::I don't know... It could possily be a legendary... I mean, it's only possible to obtain one right? I don't know. I'll check it out with Nintendo. Maybe they can clear up some questions. [[User:Smashbrother101|Smashbrother101]] 01:11, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
i am back and i say: who cares its just one of many pokemon [[User:ArceusLX|arceusLX leveled up!]] 00:54, 7 July 2010 (UTC)
:Old discussion is old. Commenting here is like feeding trolls. Just don't.--[[User:Pokelova|''Poké'']][[User talk:Pokelova|lova!]] 06:33, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Well, this comment isn't replying to another one that is +6 months, I write it. Some games, he is legend, and in some he isn't. Like phione. it can breed, the most major thing to put his status in doubt, again like phione. I think in HGSS if they can breed, aren't legendary. But in some games it is. ----[[User:Desukaan563|Desukaan563's userpage has a Value Formula to measure Pokémon worth]] ''([[User talk:Desukaan563|talk]])'' 03:54, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

== Trivia worthy? ==

On Pokemon Ranger (The first one), In Fall City, there is a young guy in a house in the south of Fall City. He has a picture on his wall which looks like either Freeze Rotom or Heat Rotom. Can someone else take a look at this for me?--[[User:Pokelova|Pokelova]] 05:12, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
:Thats not really trivia worthy[[User:DCM|DCM]][[User talk:DCM|((曲奇饼妖怪]][[Special:Contributions/DCM|Spy on My Edits))]]

Okay--[[User:Pokelova|Pokelova]] 23:02, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

== Cut and Spin Form U.S. names ==

Serebii.net today got information that two of Rotom's Form names have been changed in the U.S. translation as follows:

Cut Rotom is now known as '''Mow Rotom''' and
Spin Rotom is now known as '''Fan Rotom'''

I just wanted to let you guys you know --[[User:Dialgafan1|Dialgafan1]] 22:27, 17 March 2009 (UTC)Dialgafan1

== Heat Forme ==

On the official site for Platinum, it says the oven is a microwave oven. I changed it on the Rotom and Form differences pages. [[User:Yinyang1195|Yin]][[User talk:Yinyang1195|Yang]] 21:59, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
:Excellent, well done. *two thumbs up and a big wide grin* — [[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|THE TROM]] — 22:01, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
::Umm...Thank you? [[User:Yinyang1195|Yin]][[User talk:Yinyang1195|Yang]] 00:10, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
:::I always thought it was a toaster oven. A microwave doesn't make sense, because it doesn't use fire to heat food. [[User:Aura-Knight|Aura-Knight]] 00:53, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
::::Neither does Ash carrying a Larvitar. But it's from the site so there's nothing you can do about it. — [[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|THE TROM]] — 00:54, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
::::On its defense, it's Heat Forme, not Fire Forme, so the microwave ''does'' make sense. Toaster ovens don't use fire either, anyway (at least not when functioning correctly).--[[User:Kaoz|Kaoz]] 15:54, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

== Charon's journal and notes on Rotom ==

Should I add them on Rotom's or Charon's page, or should I just not add them at all. --[[User talk:AOS|AOS]] 03:32, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
:I say Charon's page. '''►[[User:Kevzo8|Ҝə]][[Special:Contributions/Kevzo8|υz]][[User_talk:Kevzo8|ø8]]''' 03:33, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

== Artwork at top... ==

Why is it only Frost Rotom?[[User:Nintendofan146B|Nintendofan146B]] 20:43, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
:Purge the server, click on the time at the top right of the page--[[Flash Fire (ability)|freezing]][[Heat Wave (move)|COLD]] ([[user:Cold|page]], [[User talk:Cold|talk]]) 20:45, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

== Why wash Rotom ==

The regular Rotom illustrates the Rotom concept better than its other forms. Do you see the sky forme Shaymin as the main picture on Shaymin's page? No? Then put the regular Rotom as the main images on this page! --[[User:HideInTheDark|HideInTheDark]] 18:26, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
:First of, calmness is key. Second, the images are on a timer, and change every day for this article, I believe. The pictures on Shaymin, as well as numerous other pages, also change at set times. --'''[[User:Theryguy512|Theryguy]][[User Talk:Theryguy512|512]]''' 18:37, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
::Oopsy, sorry, I didn't notice. A million sorry. --[[User:HideInTheDark|HideInTheDark]] 18:39, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Why wash Rotom? Maybe its dirty! (Sorry, I couldn't resist.) [[User:Zurqoxn|Zurqoxn]] 16:25, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

== Nintendo ==

We really should just wait for Nintendo to say something. I mean, just because someone says it isn't legendary or it is, doesn't mean that what they say is true or official, because nobody knows for sure, and because Nintendo never said anything about Rotom. (And I don't mean Pokemon.com) [[User:Vik0z0z|vik0z0z]] 19:48, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

:Still, multiple times it has been referred to as NON-legendary. You may be right, but I'm pretty sure its non-legendary. Nintendo mentioned it once if I'm correct, and the only possible proof that its legendary is that its banned from tournaments. ((User:Megamew/Megamew)) 02:08:13, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
::Actually, there is one other proof that it's legendary. The official handbook for DP had actually stated that Rotom is legendary. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 10:55, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
:::Those handbooks are incalcuably full of errors, though. --[[User:DarkfireTaimatsu|DarkfireTaimatsu]] 11:32, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
::::I think that the handbooks are a bit... unreliable. they have made (many) mistakes before and should not be trusted for important matters such as legendary Pokémon. [[User:megamew/megamew]] 21:37, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

== Trading to Diamond and Pearl ==

If Rotom is in its Wash form (for example) and it was traded to Diamond or Pearl, it would be reverted back to its Normal Form. However, if it were to be traded back to a copy of Platinum (after being reverted to Normal Form by Diamond or Pearl), would it go back to its Wash Form, or would it stay as Normal Form? [[User:Ggled|Ggled]] 13:53, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

:It would most likely stay as it's normal form. I can't find anything on Youtube, so I can't confirm it for you. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 21:02, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

I got some friends, Pokémon Platinum, A DS lite, and a wash [[rotom]] over here. I'm on it. --[[User:16ipodfanatic|16ipodfanatic]] 03:59, 15 June 2009 (UTC)16ipodfanatic

== "Auto-relearning" ThunderShock (in Platinum) ==

In the trivia section, there is the later part of one that says "If the only move that Rotom knows right before reverting to its original form is exclusive to its alternate form, then that move will be replaced with ThunderShock." I only own Platinum, and recently captured Rotom. Found the secret room, and transformed it, letting it learn that form's attack (replacing ThunderShock). Changed it to another appliance, then back to default, but found that ThunderShock had been deleted instead. Luckily, had saved just beforehand, so just did a power reset.

I then tested with just one appliance then back to default, and ThunderShock was again deleted instead of coming back and replacing the appliance's attack. So perhaps the replacing only happens in D/P? If someone could confirm and correct it, that'd be cool.

Also found that not allowing Rotom to learn the appliance's attack will also not allow Rotom to take it over. Again, no clue if this is different in D/P (if it is, obviously should be noted by someone that can confirm it).

Until confirmed, I'm removing the part I quoted for now, and someone can just retrive it later or rewrite it as neccessary.--[[User:Mondoblasto|Mondoblasto]] 08:48, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
:Ah, but that says the ''only'' move. I.e., delete all of Rotom's moves ''but'' the special move, then change it back. I'm fairly certain that's what it means (not that I have Platinum to confirm). It refers only to Platinum, as the alternate forms are only in Pt, btw. — [[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|THE TROM]] — 09:54, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
::Oh ya, secret key->secret room->alternate forms only in Platinum.... after going to Canada's first Pokemon event, you'd think I'd remember that >_<; Since I DO have Platinum (long time fan of the anime, but first game), I guess I can go ahead and test it; as mentioned, my Rotom still fresh and default. I don't know of a way to remove moves, but I'm thinking I'll try using the appliance moves to delete them one after the other, through chain changing, and maybe also by default->alternate1->default->alternate2... ect--[[User:Mondoblasto|Mondoblasto]] 06:12, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
:::There's a [[move deleter]] in [[Canalave City]]. That should help. — [[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|THE TROM]] — 06:26, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
::::I tested it with a Heat Rotom knowing only Overheat, and it's only move is now ThunderShock. It didn't even know ThunderShock before I deleted the other moves (not that that would make a difference), so it must have learnt it when changing formes. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] 06:42, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
:::::Excellent, we've proved the article correct. I do enjoy doing that. :D Great effort. — [[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|THE TROM]] — 06:54, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

==Interesting...==
Wait, according to the anime, [[rotom]] can move even when it's not in it's battle mode. Wait, what? Okay, '''now''' I'm confused. Can someone help me with this? Oh, by the way... '''STOP FIGHTING/ARGUING ABOUT WHETHER ROTOM IS A LEGENDARY OR NOT!!!!''' I'm sick of your squabbling. --[[User:16ipodfanatic|16ipodfanatic]] 03:53, 15 June 2009 (UTC)16ipodfanatic
:Thanks for bringing it up again. That's really just what we wanted. And anime =/= games. The two canons do things differently. Just because something happens in one, it doesn't have to happen in the other. — [[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|THE TROM]] — 04:04, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

== Name origins ==

I once added a small note that Rotom may also be a combination of ''rotate'' and possibly ''atom'', which got removed. Sure Charon may have named Rotom, '''but might I add that Rotom existed before Platinum? Charon was probably not even near their heads when they were choosing a name for Rotom at that time.''' So it seems to make sense to me that in the REAL WORLD, Rotom's name origin was most likely different back then. Yes it's name is motor backwards, but I was just trying to show that there were probably other possiblities why it was named that. [[User:Mudkipchan|Mudkipchan]] 07:24, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
:I agree, We have another possible name origin for {{p|Electrode}}--[[User:Force Fire|'''F''']][[Ho-Oh (Pokémon)|orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F''']][[Lugia (Pokémon)|ire]] 07:37, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
::Had it been based off of something else, surely the journal would have reflected that, like ''I have decided to name this most wondrous Pokémon 'Rotom.' Simple though it may be, Rotom emerged to me like a '''Rot'''atting a'''tom'''... Surely the link is obvious?''--[[User:MisterE13|Mister]][[User talk:MisterE13|'''E''']][[Special:Contributions/MisterE13|13]] 20:22, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
:::Honestly, there's usually only one reason for naming it, and we all know Platinum was planned during DP. They just needed to give a reason to buy Pt. It's like how Phione was named after a clione, not "clone" or "phony" or anything else. They put in the journal exactly what they named it for, making it the only truly canonical name origin. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 22:15, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

I was just thinking whether the french name for Rotom comes from the word "phantasma" (ghost) rather than the word "plasma". I know it's a Plasma Pokémon but it's also a ghost... [[User:Gronast|Gronast]] 22:24, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

== About the banning ==

:"As of the official Japanese tournament held in 2008, all Rotom forms have been banned from official tournaments. This is due to the special status of the alternate forms as event-exclusive Pokémon."
But wait a second.. you can get the Rotom formes without any extra events in HGSS (it's in Silph Co., not sure if you need to beat Red or anything), and I assume that the 2010 tourney from what I've heard uses HGSS only. So they're not really all that event-exclusive..? I think there might be some rewording needed here... ▫▪''[[User:Tina|Ťïňắ]]'' [[User talk:Tina|♫]][[Special:Contributions/Tina|♥]] 06:46, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
:Has the 2010 rules list been released yet? It could have been updated now that the formes are all for the taking. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 10:08, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
::Just checked the banlist (somewhere on [http://www.pokemon.co.jp/special/wcs0910/game/reg.html here]), the only Pokémon that are banned are Mew, Celebi, Jirachi, Deoxys, Phione, Manaphy, Darkrai, Shaymin and Arceus. So, I'm assuming that it's legal to use the Rotom formes.. I'm not really good with wording things though, more of a typo fixer, so uh... can someone change that on the page? ;; ▫▪''[[User:Tina|Ťïňắ]]'' [[User talk:Tina|♫]][[Special:Contributions/Tina|♥]] 17:38, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
== In explorers of sky... ==

Alright. Pokémon mystery dungeon explorers of sky was released after platinum was, right? Well, I was wondering if there is any way to change its rotom's form in explorers of sky. If anybody knows anything about that, it would help. Thanks! {{unsigned|Luke6256}}

== Multiple Rotom ==

Could someone bring mutliple Rotom and appliance them or is it only one at a time? [[User:Aura-Knight|Aura-Knight]] 04:22, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
:Multiple Rotom can be in different formes at the same time (If you have multiple Rotom in your party it will ask which one you want to go into the appliance), but you can only have one of each forme at a time. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] [[User talk:Werdnae|(talk)]] 07:18, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

== Roton ==
Under Rotom's orgin it should probably be listed that its based on the quasi particle http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roton.{{unsigned|Juron}}
:That is probably just coincidence, given that it's name is "motor" backwards. While it could be true that seems a bit of stretch, and Rotom doesn't really look like a quasi particle. Also a roton is probably called something different in Japanese. In future please add new discussion topics to the bottom of the talkpage.--[[User:Beligaronia|Beligaronia]] ([[User talk:Beligaronia|talk]]) 10:39, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

== Egg Moves ==
Does Rotom have any? If it doesn't, shouldn't there be a "Egg Moves" section that says "none" {{unsigned|Malake256}}

:Please {{BP|signature policy|sign your comments}} using four tildes (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>).
:And no, Rotom cannot breed, so it does not have any egg moves. We don't add an Egg Moves section for Pokémon that cannot be bred. --[[user:Jioruji_Derako| '''J'''ïörüjï '''Ð'''ērākō.'''>''']][[user talk:Jioruji Derako|''.cнаt'''''^''']] 06:06, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
::But I bred one!! Have you even tried breeding him?? ~[[User:Takharii|Takhar]][[User talk:Takharii|eon]] 07:17, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
:::You can breed Rotom, it is just that they don't have any egg moves that can be compatibly passed down through the parents. So therefore no egg moves, maybe in a later Generation though. –'''[[User talk:MasterKenobi|Master]][[User:MasterKenobi|Kenobi]]''' 10:16, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
:Thanks alot :( I got in trouble for deleting the egg moves section on pokemon that can't breed. Rotom can breed and has no egg moves, it should have a section under moves learned thatrReads "By Breeding/none." {{unsigned|Malake256}}
::You say Rotom can breed, but if only one is available, then how? Because some species cannot breed with Ditto. Though this is mainly legendary species, I think there are some non-legendary Pokémon that cannot either. [[User:FrozenStrategy|FrozenStrategy]] 12:30, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
:::Yes, Rotom can breed with Ditto. The only Pokémon that can't are Legendaries (aside from {{p|Manaphy}}) and, if I'm not mistaken, {{tt|{{p|Nidorina}} and {{p|Nidoqueen}}|I think...}}. [[User:Takharii|'''たか''']][[User talk:Takharii|'''はり''']][[Special:Contributions/Takharii|'''い''']] 12:35, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
::::...and Baby Pokémon ({{p|Pichu}}, {{p|Riolu}}, {{p|Munchlax}} etc). [[User:Takharii|'''たか''']][[User talk:Takharii|'''はり''']][[Special:Contributions/Takharii|'''い''']] 12:38, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
:::::The reason for that is egg group, not their legendary/baby status Rotom is in the {{egg|Indeterminate}} egg group, but can only breed with Ditto as it is genderless, while those that can't breed even with Ditto are in the {{egg|No Eggs Discovered}} egg group. <sc>[[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]]</sc> [[User talk:Werdnae|(talk)]] 20:33, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

== Caption ==

Normal Roton just says "Artwork of Normal Rotom from". Can someone fix that? [[User:CuboneKing|Cu]][[User talk:CuboneKing|bo]][[Special:Contributions/CuboneKing|ne]][[Cubone (Pokémon)|King]] 19:13, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

== Forced reversion ==

It would be helpful and informative to list all the ways Rotom can be reverted back to normal forme and be stripped of its forme-specific move. I know for certain using Rotom in the Soul Silver Battle Frontier reverts him to his regular forme, and I am not sure but I believe taking Rotom into the union room also changes him back to normal. Does anyone know all the causes for this? Should this be added on the page? {{u|Podunk}}
:Please remember to add new sections to the '''bottom''' of the talk page. And sign your comments with four tildes <nowiki>(~~~~).</nowiki>--[[User:Pokelova|''Poké'']][[User talk:Pokelova|lova!]] 22:37, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

== Manga pics being added ==

So I'm adding the Pics of Rotom as it appears in the manga (YES I got them from Serebii...but theres a bunch of pics from there...so sue me...)

and I was wondering that when I was done they could add them to the article and make it so that it changes forms along with the game and anime artwork ([[User:Ataro|Ataro]] 18:16, 2 August 2010 (UTC))

Also I am done adding the pics (they are to be replaced with better versions when available)

([[User:Ataro|Ataro]] 02:51, 3 August 2010 (UTC))

must I always be ignored?... [[User:Ataro|Ataro]] 20:07, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
I can do it if you tell me where they are.--[[User:MisterE13|Mister]][[User talk:MisterE13|'''E''']][[Special:Contributions/MisterE13|13]] 20:26, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

http://archives.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Special:NewFiles&until=20100803105022

on this page and thanks... [[User:Ataro|Ataro]] 20:31, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
:I would advise against adding images from Serebii. He gets pissed if we take his stuff. --[[User:Zesty Cactus|'''Zesty''']][[User talk:Zesty Cactus|'''Cactus''']] 20:34, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

and yet there are a million of them uploaded... also wash and Fan rotom I got from the site.. [[User:Ataro|Ataro]] 20:52, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
::Wait so should I add them?--[[User:MisterE13|Mister]][[User talk:MisterE13|'''E''']][[Special:Contributions/MisterE13|13]] 22:27, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Add it for now. But I would like to remind everyone that taking images from Serebii is a huge no-no, and I expect these images to be replaced by your own scans in the future. —♥ [[User:Jello|Jello]][[User Talk:Jello|talk]] 22:31, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

==Evolution section==
I raised the complaint on another page that Pokémon which change forme rather than evolving ought to have this section renamed. But this one has an added problem: Can Rotom really change directly from, say, Mow Form to Fan Form? I thought it had to exit the device it was already in first, in which case we should use a template more like that of {{p|Eevee}} and its evolutions, with the forms all changing between Normal and the specialized forms. --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] 16:07, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
:In Platinum at least it can go straight from one to another without the need to manually revert it to normal first. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] [[User talk:Werdnae|(talk)]] 19:56, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
::Okay. My bad. I thought I had heard otherwise. --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] 22:21, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
:::Can go straight from one to the other on HGSS too. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 10:01, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

== generation v ==

Can we add to the page in the physiology section that Rotom's room in black/white is in the department store? [[User:Kidburla|Kidburla]] 14:57, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
:Done. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 18:50, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

== Add To Trivia? ==

Should I add to the trivia that if you spell 'rotom' backwards you get 'motor' or is that in the name origin that I didn't read? [[User:Ethan brendan lucas|Ethan brendan lucas]] 10:43, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
:It's already in the name origin section. --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] 11:08, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

== Black/White Location (Edit Request) ==

{{Availability|
type=electric |
type2={{#switch: {{#time: w}}|0|6=Ghost|1=Fire|2=Water|3=Ice|4=Flying|5=Grass}}|
gen=4 |
dprarity=One |
dparea=TV in [[Old Chateau]] ([[Time|Night]] only, after obtaining [[National Pokédex]]) |
ptrarity=One |
ptarea=TV in [[Old Chateau]] ([[Time|Night]] only) |
hgssex=dppt|
hgssarea=[[Trade]] |
bwrarity=One |
bwarea={{rt|15|Unova}} ([[Trade]] {{p|Ditto}})|
}}
'''X'''[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']]'''X''' 22:01, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

== Intro ==

I didn't want to just add this so soon after being unprotected, but I propose a cleanup of the messy intro:

While it is not known to evolve into or from any other Pokémon, it has the ability to possess the motors of certain appliances and [[form differences#Rotom|change forms]].
*When it does not possess an appliance, it is Normal Rotom, and is {{2t|Electric|Ghost}}
*When it possesses a {{wp|microwave oven}} it becomes Heat Rotom, and is {{2t|Electric|Fire}}
*When it possesses a {{wp|washing machine}} it becomes Wash Rotom, and is {{2t|Electric|Water}}
*When it possesses a {{wp|refrigerator}} it becomes Frost Rotom, and is {{2t|Electric|Ice}}
*When it possesses a {{wp|mechanical fan|rotary fan}} it becomes Fan Rotom, and is {{2t|Electric|Flying}}
*When it possesses a {{wp|lawn mower}} it becomes Mow Rotom, and is {{2t|Electric|Grass}}.

In Generation IV, it was {{2t|Electric|Ghost}} regardless of its form.

'''X'''[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']]'''X''' 06:47, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

== Trivia Correction? ==

"While some other Pokémon with alternate forms have different base stat distributions in their other forms, Rotom is the only Pokémon whose alternate forms have a different base stat total than that of the original form."

Doesn't Darmanitan's forms also have different base stat totals? --[[User:Enervation|Enervation]] 21:15, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, it does. Thanks for pointing that out! :--[[User:SuperAipom7|SuperAipom7]] ''([[User talk:SuperAipom7|Wanna chat?]])'' 21:18, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

== Fan Rotom ==

If the opponent uses a {{type|Ground}} move against a Fan Rotom holding an [[Air Balloon]] ([[Generation V]] only), provided {{m|Gastro Acid}}, {{m|Gravity}}, etc. are not used. what will the message be? Will it say that it did not affect Rotom, Rotom makes Ground moves miss with {{a|Levitate}}, or what? This doesn't really matter, and isn't related to the topic at all, but why doesn't Bulbapedia have an icon next to the site name that appears on the browser (on Mozilla Firefox)? {{unsigned|Enervation}}
:It says "It doesn't affect Rotom...". The loss of favicon (that icon you are referring to) is due to the server restructure, and we are working on fixing it. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 08:44, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

== Rotom's sprite in DP ==

I think the cell for Rotom's DP sprite in the sprite table should be given a rowspan of 5 in its coding, to combine it into one long vertical cell alongside the six in Platinum and HGSS. This will make it visually clear there is only one sprite for Rotom in the Generation IV pilot games, rather than pushing it up to the top of each generational row and leaving an empty space below. What do you think? P.S. Taking a look at the HTML for the sprite table doesn't seem to show any way the rowspan of any sprite can be modified, so I'd be curious to know more. [[User:Haxorus|'''Hax''']][[User talk:Haxorus|'''or''']][[Special:MyContributions|'''us''']] 09:13, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

== Why are its Formes treated as Individual Pokemons? ==

According to the trivia placed by editors, they consider each one of Rotom's formes as an individual Pokemon. (eg. Mow Rotom is the only Pokemon to have Grass-Electric type combination?) Discuss. [[User:Blueknightex|Blueknightex]] 11:58, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
:It isn't. It's just saying that Mow (forme) rotom is the only Grass/Electric type. It's like the {{p|Arceus}} (or {{t|Poison}}; one of them) saying Poison form Arceus is the only poison type legendary.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 12:04, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
:: Thanks for responding. I know what you mean but the way its written makes it seem like we're treating the formes like individual Pokemons though(eg.Mow Rotom is the only Grass-type ''Pokémon''?..). That's the impression that I'm getting when I first read it but I do know that its not completely true. [[User:Blueknightex|Blueknightex]] 09:58, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

== Pokemon Special ==

Should it be noted that Rotom is apparently considered a Legendary in Pokemon Special? I haven't read the Platinum chapter yet, but it shows Rotom in silhouette with the other Sinnoh Legendaries that Charon is after. [[User:Pokemega32|Pokemega32]] 22:21, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
:Given that it's Charon, it's quite possible he was pursuing Sinnoh legendary Pokémon and Rotom. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 12:42, 2 May 2012 (UTC)
::I don't see why we should assume that. Charon and the Association President both just say he's searching for the Legendary Pokemon of Sinnoh. Charon never even directly interacts with Rotom in the manga outside of it attacking him at the end to destroy his machine, so it's not like he considers it special. [[User:Pokemega32|Pokemega32]] 10:18, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

== Levitate Info ==
At the type effectiveness box of pokemon with the ability Levitate, the following is written:

Notes:
If Gravity is in effect, the Pokémon is given an Iron Ball, the opponent has the Ability Mold Breaker, Turboblaze or Teravolt, or it is affected by Gastro Acid, Skill Swap*, Entrainment*, Worry Seed, Simple Beam or Smack Down, the effectiveness of Ground-type moves is 2×.

So, I wondered if someone could edit the part above and make it look like this:

If Gravity is in effect, the Pokémon is given an Iron Ball '''or uses a contact move and hits an opponent with the ability Mummy''', the opponent has the Ability Mold Breaker, Turboblaze or Teravolt, or it is affected by Gastro Acid, Skill Swap*, Entrainment*, Worry Seed, Simple Beam or Smack Down, the effectiveness of Ground-type moves is 2×.--[[User:Rabitsd|Rabitsd]] ([[User talk:Rabitsd|talk]]) 12:03, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
:That makes sense, but I don't really have the authority to add that... [[User:KyuremsIceBlade|KyuremsIceBlade]] ([[User talk:KyuremsIceBlade|talk]]) 23:03, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

== Rotom's Room only appears for the original Old Chateau rotom ==

I traded a Rotom from a friend and bred it to get a Level 1 Rotom, which I tried taking to Silph Co. in HeartGold as the first Pokémon in my party, but the counter lady, elevator guard and Steven were all still there, and I couldn't get into the elevator. Either this is a glitch or Rotom's Room is only accessible to the original Rotom from Old Chateau. [[User:Zywxn|Zywxn]] 12:42, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

== PWT type-expert. Worth noting in trivia? ==

Just wondering if it was worth noting in the trivia that because of it's form/type changing, Rotom can enter more Type Specialist tournaments at the PWT than any other pokemon, at 7. In fact I think it's the only pokemon that can enter more than 2. [[User:Magentaman|Magentaman]] ([[User talk:Magentaman|talk]]) 18:32, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

== Gen VI movesets ==

I can't figure out the coding, but the forme specific movesets still say Generation V at the top. Can someone who knows how please change this so they say Generation VI? [[User:Yamitora1|Yamitora1]] ([[User talk:Yamitora1|talk]]) 03:16, 16 February 2014 (UTC)

== X/Y location directs to Gen 2 Tuesday listing ==

Not sure if this is the best place to put this, but I noticed that the "Tu" link under the X/Y location entry for Rotom links to the Tuesday section of Gen 2 on the "Days of the Week" article. Any ideaos on how to fix that?

--[[User:Gumbyx84|Gumbyx84]] ([[User talk:Gumbyx84|talk]]) 20:50, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

== Formes in Generation VI ==

Is the [[Lost Hotel]] the only place to find the alternate forms of Rotom, or is there some Rotom's Room analog in Kalos? I'd really like to get a Frost Rotom, but I don't have the time to search one out in the Lost Hotel. [[User:KyuremsIceBlade|'''''KYUREM'S''''']] [[User talk:KyuremsIceBlade|'''''ICE''''']] [[Special:Contributions/KyuremsIceBlade|'''''BLADE''''']] 22:47, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
:There is a box with the appliances on the 2nd floor of the Professor's Lab in Lumiose City. [[User:TheSilentHero|TheSilentHero]] ([[User talk:TheSilentHero|talk]]) 06:27, 10 April 2014 (UTC)
::Thanks! :) [[User:KyuremsIceBlade|'''''KYUREM'S''''']] [[User talk:KyuremsIceBlade|'''''ICE''''']] [[Special:Contributions/KyuremsIceBlade|'''''BLADE''''']] 01:53, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

== Alternate Formes type ==
should rotom's other formes be included in being the lightest of their typings? [[User:Animaltamer7|Animaltamer7]]11:08, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

== Time Travel ==

Would appear that in the latest amine episode XY80, Rotom Elevator is a thing and has the ability to time travel it's occupants back and forward in time. {{unsigned|SorrowDemonica}}

== Pokédex Rotom ==

In the new trailer they unveiled a Pokédex Rotom, are we leaving this until we know whether it fights in battle?
[[User:Ashitic|Ashitic]] ([[User talk:Ashitic|talk]]) 13:29, 2 June 2016 (UTC)

== Pokédex form image uploaded ==

Since the page is protected, would somebody mind adding [http://archives.bulbagarden.net/wiki/File:Rotom-Pok%C3%A9dex.png this image] in the infobox of Rotom's forms. And I know, it might not be an actual Pokémon playable in battle, but the official website states that <code> It's known as the Rotom Pokédex, and it's inhabited by Rotom</code> which means that it really IS a Pokémon, and even if that doesn't work, don't forget that {{p|Pichu}} has the Spiky-Eared form even though it doesn't exist in the games. [[User:MannedTooth| MannedTooth ]] ([[User_Talk:MannedTooth|Talk]]) 21:21, 25 September 2016 (UTC)
:Spiky-Eared Pichu did exist in the games, though. Just, not outside of HG/SS. - ''unsigned comment from [[User:Missingno. Master|Missingno. Master]] ([[User talk:Missingno. Master|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Missingno._Master|contribs]])'' 21:25, 25 September 2016 (UTC)

== Rotom Pokédex Biology Question ==

So I was wondering, Should the Rotom Pokédex be also mentioned in the Biology page? As its forms are mentioned on so, why not include that as well? Also Should here be a Trivia on Rotom being the only know Pokemon that can be a Pokédex? Just wanted to ask before making changes.--[[User:Jacob9594|Jacob Kogan]] ([[User talk:Jacob9594|talk]]) 03:21, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

== Normal Rotom ==

Where does the name "Normal Rotom" for the base form originate from? As far as I can tell, official material (including pokemon.com's Pokédex, the in-game ORAS Pokédex, and Pokémon Ultra Sun & Pokémon Ultra Moon Edition: The Official National Pokédex) treats it like Kyurem and Necrozma's base forms where they're just referred to by the Pokémon's name with no additional terminology. --[[User:Mr. Bonding|Mr. Bonding]] ([[User talk:Mr. Bonding|talk]]) 03:06, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

==Form Change==

I went ahead and updated the text of the 'Form Change' section to reflect the fact that form-specific moves must no longer be learnt to change Rotom's form. [[User:SJ|SJ]] ([[User talk:SJ|talk]]) 12:11, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

== Color Trivia ==

Rotom is the only red Ghost-type Pokémon according to Pokédex colors. All other types have at least 2 unrelated Pokémon, so I think this is somewhat important for trivia. {{unsigned|Pseudonym}}
:Too specific.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 03:56, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

== rotom drone ==

please create a page on rotom drone. it has made few appreances in anime so far. jomit.pika 17:39, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

== Rotom Phone type ==
we not going to do anything with the fact the anime mentions rotom phone is pure electric?[[User:Roserade57|Roserade57]] ([[User talk:Roserade57|talk]]) 07:22, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
:Which episode did you get that from? [[User:Animaltamer7|Animaltamer7]] ([[User talk:Animaltamer7|talk]]) 11:50, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
::None. The anime has stated the Rotom '''Pokédex's''' type, not the Rotom '''Phone's'''. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 11:59, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
:::If you meant Rotom Pokédex, then it's done. If you really mean Rotom Phone, I'd like to see a source.--'''[[User:Team Rocket Grunt|Rocket]] [[User talk:Team Rocket Grunt|Grunt]]''' 15:13, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
::::thats what I meant, my bad. i kinda wanted it in the main lead and the infobox but i guess thats only game stuff?[[User:Roserade57|Roserade57]] ([[User talk:Roserade57|talk]]) 01:01, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
:::::That's correct. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 08:47, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

== Sources for designers? ==

Do we have citations/sources on who designed Rotom forms? (on the Trivia section) [[User:Anzasquiddles|Anzasquiddles]] ([[User talk:Anzasquiddles|talk]]) 19:34, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

== Rotom Phone ==

I have seen that after the most recent trailer for Pokémon Scarlet and Violet the old Rotom Phone art its gone, I think the article should include both arts, even though the look almost the same, since we still don't know the differences in the functionality between both iterations, and we should add a note in the biology part of the article stating that the model produced for the Rotom phone got updated in the time gap between both games. --[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 04:02, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

== Rotor + Motor backward? ==

Kind of shaped like a rotor and honestly makes more sense than it being based on a light bulb.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotor_(electric)[[User:Icycatelf|Icycatelf]] ([[User talk:Icycatelf|talk]]) 20:29, 2 February 2025 (UTC)

:Example of a rotor shaped even more like Rotom: https://b2b.geko.pl/en/rotor-for-electric-lawn-mower-g83027[[User:Icycatelf|Icycatelf]] ([[User talk:Icycatelf|talk]]) 20:54, 2 February 2025 (UTC)

== Frost Rotom issue ==

The artwork for Frost Rotom doesn't show up on Rotom's page box. Is there a way to fix that?[[User:Machampionship|Machampionship]] ([[User talk:Machampionship|talk]]) 01:34, 14 November 2025 (UTC)

== Error in the Pokédex entries section ==

Hi, I noticed there might be an error specifically in the Blueberry Pokédex number shown for Rotom, it currently says #129, yet in the [[List_of_Pok%C3%A9mon_by_Blueberry_Pok%C3%A9dex_number]] it says it should be #41.

Can someone with the DLC confirm which one is correct? [[User:Cabecote|Cabecote]] ([[User talk:Cabecote|talk]]) 13:22, 24 December 2025 (UTC)

== Stereo Rotom ==

I don't think we should put rotom in its stereo form has one of it main forms, it hasn't appeared in a main line game only in Pokétopia. [[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 21:46, 24 March 2026 (UTC)

:It's worth noting that the article is about the species; and is not limited to its appearance in any game or subset of games (though of course this information is covered). Pokopia is a game developed by Game Freak, but more importantly it has characteristics that are unique to it (specifically its typing), that is relevant to display in the infobox at a species level. '''[[User:4iamking|4iamking]]''' 22:13, 24 March 2026 (UTC)
::Then, with the reasoning that it has a type and that it is a form that appeared in games (albeit, in a not main tittle), then why not change the overall display of relevant forms to include the Rotom Phone, the Rotom Pokédex Form or even the Rotom Bike Form. All these forms are also relevant to display in the infobox at a species level too by that logic, and yet we keep them separated. If we go by the typing there was revealed in official media that its Pokédex form is a pure electric type, if we go by involvement in the plot and dialog it also participates in SM and in USUM. [[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 21:42, 25 March 2026 (UTC)
:::I think whether they appear in a Pokédex would be a good criterion. [[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']] 23:15, 25 March 2026 (UTC)
::::Just like Bloodmoon Ursaluna. It’s a unique Pokémon form. Hence it counts plus adds fun lore and shows how unique it adapts and changes, epically with type change. [[User:Jacob9594|Jacob9594 ]] ([[User talk:Jacob9594|talk]]) 00:18, 26 March 2026 (UTC)
:::::Yes, but thats it, Bloodmoon Ursaluna is Catchable and usable in battle, the Stereo Form is different, is not usable. It's like we put a picture of XD001 in the man box at the top for Lugia's Bulbapedia page. [[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 23:18, 27 March 2026 (UTC)
::::::Except we never did for Shadow Lugia. It’s just on the forms page, like Primal Dialga for example. And the two new Pikachu duo from upcoming Winds and Waves. So just remove the stereo Rotom from top of Rotom page and that should solve problem? Plus Tinkataon has the same thing but no form section of Tinkmaster. [[User:Jacob9594|Jacob9594 ]] ([[User talk:Jacob9594|talk]]) 23:23, 27 March 2026 (UTC)
:::::::Shadow Lugia's exclusion from the infobox is because it doesn't exist within the core series. The infobox is pretty much exclusively for core series game data, so spin-off exclusive forms are a little out of place there. Shadow Lugia is covered in the biology section, which is still near the top of the page and is meant to be media-agnostic, so it makes sense to include it there.
:::::::Since we don't know yet if Stereo Rotom (or any of the other Pokopia forms for that matter) is going to appear outside of this game, I think we should take the more conservative approach and not include it in the infobox unless it shows up in the core series. All of its unique data can fit comfortably in the biology section. Pokopia has a lot more connections to the core series than most spin-offs, but it is still a spin-off at the end of the day. [[User:Storm Aurora|'''Storm Aurora''']] ([[User talk:Storm Aurora|talk]]) 00:16, 28 March 2026 (UTC)
::::::::That is fair compromise and any spin off forms will be placed in biology instead. [[User:Jacob9594|Jacob9594 ]] ([[User talk:Jacob9594|talk]]) 01:09, 28 March 2026 (UTC)
:::::::::Then, shall we take out Stereo Rotom from the infobox along side the other forms of Pokémon introduced in Poketopia? [[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 07:48, 28 March 2026 (UTC)

Talk:Rotom (Pokémon)/Archive 2

2026-03-27T23:18:34Z

Neos: /* Stereo Rotom */ Reply

Talk:Rotom (Pokémon)/Archive 2

2026-03-25T21:42:02Z

Neos: /* Stereo Rotom */ Reply

Talk:Rotom (Pokémon)/Archive 2

2026-03-24T21:46:51Z

Neos: /* Stereo Rotom */ new section

<big><big><big>'''ROTOM IS NOT A LEGENDARY POKÉMON. DO NOT ADD IT TO THE PAGE.'''</big></big></big>

==Archives==
*[[/Archive 1|Archive 1]] (discussions from August 24, 2007 – December 5, 2008)

== Unprotect ==

When can this be unprotected? *[[User:Tc26|tc]][[User talk:Tc26|26]]* 12:14, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
 *[[User:Tc26|tc]][[User talk:Tc26|26]]* 16:09, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
:Could an admin also fix up the new stats-box? Rotom's the only one not updated. — [[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|THE TROM]] — 20:04, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
::Can this be unprotected anytime soon I wanna make the in the anime part now...[[User:Rucario64|Rucario]][[User Talk:Rucario64|64]] 17:39, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
:::This page isn't unprotected yet? [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 19:40, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

== Legendary? ==

I know this has been discussed before but since the main argument for Rotom not being legendary was its stats but now that it can change forms (a trait shared with several legendary Pokémon) that all have better stats ("almost making them analogous to evolutions") should this discussion be reopened.--[[User:MisterE13|Mister]][[User talk:MisterE13|'''E''']][[Special:Contributions/MisterE13|13]] 01:11, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
:No. Not a legendary.[[User:DCM|DCM]][[User talk:DCM|((曲奇饼妖怪]][[Special:Contributions/DCM|Spy on My Edits))]]
::Shall we bring this up on the Castform talk page too then? What about Cherrim and Burmy? Rotom isn't legendary, it's just the Gen IV version of Snorlax, Sudowoodo and Kecleon (without the annoying blocking of your path thing). — [[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|THE TROM]] — 01:44, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
:::The main argument was the new stats and ''event'' status. At least I new better than to edit the article outright. If nothing else, it is the first ''non''-legendary to have had new forms unlocked through events.--[[User:MisterE13|Mister]][[User talk:MisterE13|'''E''']][[Special:Contributions/MisterE13|13]] 02:41, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
::::Well, technically, the official DP Pokédex released by Nintendo/Gamefreak/TVTokyo stated that Rotom was a Legendary Pokémon, but yeah, it's doubtful that it is one. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 02:59, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
::::: Then so is arcanine. Get working on that children[[User:DCM|DCM]][[User talk:DCM|((曲奇饼妖怪]][[Special:Contributions/DCM|Spy on My Edits))]]
:::::: Actually, I was referring to this (It still labels it as the Plasma pokémon, BTW.)

:::::: 

::::::[[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]]03:05, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
I realized a while ago that here we didn't refer to it as legendary and respected that, I was just wondering if it was just because of its {{tt|''awful'' stats|which are better with the new forms}} as well as the new EVENT status.--[[User:MisterE13|Mister]][[User talk:MisterE13|'''E''']][[Special:Contributions/MisterE13|13]] 03:11, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

its legendary. duh. sure the booked said delibird was a legendary but in the lineup it wasent there and rotom was there. [[User:ArceusEX|ArceusEX]] 20:49, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
:Oh no, don't start ''that'' again...--The [[Delibird (Pokémon)|Kk]][[Stantler (Pokémon)|ll]][[Santa Claus|nn]][[User:Kkllnn|ator]] [[User Talk:Kkllnn| サンタクロース]] 20:52, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

::: well i brung it up hah [[User:ArceusEX|ArceusEX]] 21:11, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
::::Sorry, I know this sort of thing brings out the worst in certain bulbapedians (^). But really, what are the remaining arguments? It's stats aren't awful anymore so it can't be that. Also, if this discussion still ends with it not being legendary, could an Admin please add that '''Rotom is the first non-legendary Pokémon to have an alternate form that requires activation from an event'''.--[[User:MisterE13|Mister]][[User talk:MisterE13|'''E''']][[Special:Contributions/MisterE13|13]] 21:24, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
:::::Well, if you look in the deletion log for {{u|Timer/Rotom's Status|one of the most useless pages in history}}, apparently Pokemon.com said it wasn't legendary. And EX, did the book have the official Nintendo Seal on it? Didn't think so. Now, ''better'' handbooks, which actually ''have'' the seal on them, say that 'Tom is ''not'' a legendary.--The [[Delibird (Pokémon)|Kk]][[Stantler (Pokémon)|ll]][[Santa Claus|nn]][[User:Kkllnn|ator]] [[User Talk:Kkllnn| サンタクロース]] 21:28, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
::::::Well, I don't know about you, but I think the official copyright that he mentioned is good enough for me. I mean, what's the point in even making a copyright if the person/company in question didn't ACTUALLY create it? Besides, the official Seal of Nintendo isn't going to apply anyways, as Nintendo didn't actually create Pokémon (it was gamefreak). All they did was allow it on their systems. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 21:38, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
:::::::In that case, could someone please add the trivia.--[[User:MisterE13|Mister]][[User talk:MisterE13|'''E''']][[Special:Contributions/MisterE13|13]] 23:15, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
::::::::I already did a long time ago. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 23:24, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::We already decided this, Didnt we? Its not a legendary, unless Arcanine is one ({{tt|similar species name|hell, its even listed with Articuno, Zapdos, and MOltres}}[[User:DCM|DCM]][[User talk:DCM|((曲奇饼妖怪]][[Special:Contributions/DCM|Spy on My Edits))]]
::::::::::It is not legendary, end of story. ''[[User:Maverick Nate|'''Maverick''']][[User talk:Maverick Nate|'''Nate''']]'' 00:05, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::::No, I mean say '''Rotom is the only non-legendary to be considered "event only"'''.--[[User:MisterE13|Mister]][[User talk:MisterE13|'''E''']][[Special:Contributions/MisterE13|13]] 00:54, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
::::::::::::LIES! Rotom can be captured, only his other formes, not officially in the Dex, therefore not new pokemon, cant be captured[[User:DCM|DCM]][[User talk:DCM|((曲奇饼妖怪]][[Special:Contributions/DCM|Spy on My Edits))]]
:::::::::::::To quote the page:"''As of the official Japanese tournament held in 2008, all Rotom forms have been banned from official tournaments. This is due to the special status of the alternate forms as event-exclusive Pokémon.''" I understand what you mean DCM, but I'm just using what we already have.--[[User:MisterE13|Mister]][[User talk:MisterE13|'''E''']][[Special:Contributions/MisterE13|13]] 01:03, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
::::::::::::::But it doesnt have its own distinctive entry in the pokedex. Therefore, not a pokemon, just a variant of one.[[User:DCM|DCM]][[User talk:DCM|((曲奇饼妖怪]][[Special:Contributions/DCM|Spy on My Edits))]]
(Gettin' cramped) the--[[User:Vik0z0z|vik0z0z]] 20:58, 8 February 2009 (UTC)n put first/only Pokémon with alternate forms only available through an event. I was just using the {{tt|wording we already had in the article|change that too if necessary}}.--[[User:MisterE13|Mister]][[User talk:MisterE13|'''E''']][[Special:Contributions/MisterE13|13]] 01:13, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
:Double check that.[[User:DCM|DCM]][[User talk:DCM|((曲奇饼妖怪]][[Special:Contributions/DCM|Spy on My Edits))]]

is there any way we can truly find out if it is a legendary or not? [[User:Vik0z0z|vik0z0z]] 23:26, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
and i consider it semi-legendary like unown or lucario.

also the way you obtain Rotom is like most legendaries, because you have to go up to a T.V. and then a battle starts, do you get what i'm saying?
and an '''''Bold text''OFFICIAL''' nintendo handbook says Rotom is legendary
and Rotom has legendary battle music!!!! [[User:Vik0z0z|vik0z0z]] 23:31, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
:*refrains from using caps* no, it isn't. The music {{p|Cresselia|means}} {{p|Shaymin|nothing}}. Goodbye.--[[Flash Fire (ability)|freezing]][[Heat Wave (move)|COLD]] ([[user:Cold|page]], [[User talk:Cold|talk]]) 23:37, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

so, there is no way we can truly find out if it is a legendary? [[User:Vik0z0z|vik0z0z]] 23:59, 3 February 2009 (UTC) [[User:Vik0z0z|vik0z0z]] 23:59, 3 February 2009 (UTC) [[User:Vik0z0z|vik0z0z]] 23:59, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

:Even without the Legendary music, there's still the fact that it was mentioned to be a Legendary in an official handbook that was made not only by nintendo, but TVTokyo and even Gamefreak, the ones who actually created Pokémon in the first place. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 00:50, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

what i'm saying is that you have to activate rotom (in a way) and then battle him.
how many non-legendary pokemon do that!?--[[User:Vik0z0z|vik0z0z]] 20:58, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
:{{p|Snorlax}}, {{p|Sudowoodo}}. As much as I'd like to think Rotom's legendary, that argument doesn't cut it around here.--[[User:MisterE13|Mister]][[User talk:MisterE13|'''E''']][[Special:Contributions/MisterE13|13]] 21:13, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

why would nintendo make such a big deal out of rotom in platinum if he wasnt legendary. {{unsigned|Vik0z0z}}
:To make little fanboys and fangirls argue about it on Bulbapedia talkpages. Look guys, there is no official confirmation otherwise, so we have to take it as ''unlegendary'', as that is what ''most'' of the information leads to. Yes, there are points on both sides, but with no ''official'' confirmation, we can't do anything. The discussion here is becoming best suited to the forums and further comments will be deleted. Thanks. — [[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|THE TROM]] — 06:53, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
::Doesn't that Guidebook count as official information? I mean, from the Copyright notice that someone posted in the archives that TV Tokyo, Nintendo, and even Gamefreak had a hand at making the book. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 10:03, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
:::I don't know... It could possily be a legendary... I mean, it's only possible to obtain one right? I don't know. I'll check it out with Nintendo. Maybe they can clear up some questions. [[User:Smashbrother101|Smashbrother101]] 01:11, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
i am back and i say: who cares its just one of many pokemon [[User:ArceusLX|arceusLX leveled up!]] 00:54, 7 July 2010 (UTC)
:Old discussion is old. Commenting here is like feeding trolls. Just don't.--[[User:Pokelova|''Poké'']][[User talk:Pokelova|lova!]] 06:33, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Well, this comment isn't replying to another one that is +6 months, I write it. Some games, he is legend, and in some he isn't. Like phione. it can breed, the most major thing to put his status in doubt, again like phione. I think in HGSS if they can breed, aren't legendary. But in some games it is. ----[[User:Desukaan563|Desukaan563's userpage has a Value Formula to measure Pokémon worth]] ''([[User talk:Desukaan563|talk]])'' 03:54, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

== Trivia worthy? ==

On Pokemon Ranger (The first one), In Fall City, there is a young guy in a house in the south of Fall City. He has a picture on his wall which looks like either Freeze Rotom or Heat Rotom. Can someone else take a look at this for me?--[[User:Pokelova|Pokelova]] 05:12, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
:Thats not really trivia worthy[[User:DCM|DCM]][[User talk:DCM|((曲奇饼妖怪]][[Special:Contributions/DCM|Spy on My Edits))]]

Okay--[[User:Pokelova|Pokelova]] 23:02, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

== Cut and Spin Form U.S. names ==

Serebii.net today got information that two of Rotom's Form names have been changed in the U.S. translation as follows:

Cut Rotom is now known as '''Mow Rotom''' and
Spin Rotom is now known as '''Fan Rotom'''

I just wanted to let you guys you know --[[User:Dialgafan1|Dialgafan1]] 22:27, 17 March 2009 (UTC)Dialgafan1

== Heat Forme ==

On the official site for Platinum, it says the oven is a microwave oven. I changed it on the Rotom and Form differences pages. [[User:Yinyang1195|Yin]][[User talk:Yinyang1195|Yang]] 21:59, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
:Excellent, well done. *two thumbs up and a big wide grin* — [[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|THE TROM]] — 22:01, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
::Umm...Thank you? [[User:Yinyang1195|Yin]][[User talk:Yinyang1195|Yang]] 00:10, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
:::I always thought it was a toaster oven. A microwave doesn't make sense, because it doesn't use fire to heat food. [[User:Aura-Knight|Aura-Knight]] 00:53, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
::::Neither does Ash carrying a Larvitar. But it's from the site so there's nothing you can do about it. — [[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|THE TROM]] — 00:54, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
::::On its defense, it's Heat Forme, not Fire Forme, so the microwave ''does'' make sense. Toaster ovens don't use fire either, anyway (at least not when functioning correctly).--[[User:Kaoz|Kaoz]] 15:54, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

== Charon's journal and notes on Rotom ==

Should I add them on Rotom's or Charon's page, or should I just not add them at all. --[[User talk:AOS|AOS]] 03:32, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
:I say Charon's page. '''►[[User:Kevzo8|Ҝə]][[Special:Contributions/Kevzo8|υz]][[User_talk:Kevzo8|ø8]]''' 03:33, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

== Artwork at top... ==

Why is it only Frost Rotom?[[User:Nintendofan146B|Nintendofan146B]] 20:43, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
:Purge the server, click on the time at the top right of the page--[[Flash Fire (ability)|freezing]][[Heat Wave (move)|COLD]] ([[user:Cold|page]], [[User talk:Cold|talk]]) 20:45, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

== Why wash Rotom ==

The regular Rotom illustrates the Rotom concept better than its other forms. Do you see the sky forme Shaymin as the main picture on Shaymin's page? No? Then put the regular Rotom as the main images on this page! --[[User:HideInTheDark|HideInTheDark]] 18:26, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
:First of, calmness is key. Second, the images are on a timer, and change every day for this article, I believe. The pictures on Shaymin, as well as numerous other pages, also change at set times. --'''[[User:Theryguy512|Theryguy]][[User Talk:Theryguy512|512]]''' 18:37, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
::Oopsy, sorry, I didn't notice. A million sorry. --[[User:HideInTheDark|HideInTheDark]] 18:39, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Why wash Rotom? Maybe its dirty! (Sorry, I couldn't resist.) [[User:Zurqoxn|Zurqoxn]] 16:25, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

== Nintendo ==

We really should just wait for Nintendo to say something. I mean, just because someone says it isn't legendary or it is, doesn't mean that what they say is true or official, because nobody knows for sure, and because Nintendo never said anything about Rotom. (And I don't mean Pokemon.com) [[User:Vik0z0z|vik0z0z]] 19:48, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

:Still, multiple times it has been referred to as NON-legendary. You may be right, but I'm pretty sure its non-legendary. Nintendo mentioned it once if I'm correct, and the only possible proof that its legendary is that its banned from tournaments. ((User:Megamew/Megamew)) 02:08:13, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
::Actually, there is one other proof that it's legendary. The official handbook for DP had actually stated that Rotom is legendary. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 10:55, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
:::Those handbooks are incalcuably full of errors, though. --[[User:DarkfireTaimatsu|DarkfireTaimatsu]] 11:32, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
::::I think that the handbooks are a bit... unreliable. they have made (many) mistakes before and should not be trusted for important matters such as legendary Pokémon. [[User:megamew/megamew]] 21:37, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

== Trading to Diamond and Pearl ==

If Rotom is in its Wash form (for example) and it was traded to Diamond or Pearl, it would be reverted back to its Normal Form. However, if it were to be traded back to a copy of Platinum (after being reverted to Normal Form by Diamond or Pearl), would it go back to its Wash Form, or would it stay as Normal Form? [[User:Ggled|Ggled]] 13:53, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

:It would most likely stay as it's normal form. I can't find anything on Youtube, so I can't confirm it for you. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 21:02, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

I got some friends, Pokémon Platinum, A DS lite, and a wash [[rotom]] over here. I'm on it. --[[User:16ipodfanatic|16ipodfanatic]] 03:59, 15 June 2009 (UTC)16ipodfanatic

== "Auto-relearning" ThunderShock (in Platinum) ==

In the trivia section, there is the later part of one that says "If the only move that Rotom knows right before reverting to its original form is exclusive to its alternate form, then that move will be replaced with ThunderShock." I only own Platinum, and recently captured Rotom. Found the secret room, and transformed it, letting it learn that form's attack (replacing ThunderShock). Changed it to another appliance, then back to default, but found that ThunderShock had been deleted instead. Luckily, had saved just beforehand, so just did a power reset.

I then tested with just one appliance then back to default, and ThunderShock was again deleted instead of coming back and replacing the appliance's attack. So perhaps the replacing only happens in D/P? If someone could confirm and correct it, that'd be cool.

Also found that not allowing Rotom to learn the appliance's attack will also not allow Rotom to take it over. Again, no clue if this is different in D/P (if it is, obviously should be noted by someone that can confirm it).

Until confirmed, I'm removing the part I quoted for now, and someone can just retrive it later or rewrite it as neccessary.--[[User:Mondoblasto|Mondoblasto]] 08:48, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
:Ah, but that says the ''only'' move. I.e., delete all of Rotom's moves ''but'' the special move, then change it back. I'm fairly certain that's what it means (not that I have Platinum to confirm). It refers only to Platinum, as the alternate forms are only in Pt, btw. — [[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|THE TROM]] — 09:54, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
::Oh ya, secret key->secret room->alternate forms only in Platinum.... after going to Canada's first Pokemon event, you'd think I'd remember that >_<; Since I DO have Platinum (long time fan of the anime, but first game), I guess I can go ahead and test it; as mentioned, my Rotom still fresh and default. I don't know of a way to remove moves, but I'm thinking I'll try using the appliance moves to delete them one after the other, through chain changing, and maybe also by default->alternate1->default->alternate2... ect--[[User:Mondoblasto|Mondoblasto]] 06:12, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
:::There's a [[move deleter]] in [[Canalave City]]. That should help. — [[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|THE TROM]] — 06:26, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
::::I tested it with a Heat Rotom knowing only Overheat, and it's only move is now ThunderShock. It didn't even know ThunderShock before I deleted the other moves (not that that would make a difference), so it must have learnt it when changing formes. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] 06:42, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
:::::Excellent, we've proved the article correct. I do enjoy doing that. :D Great effort. — [[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|THE TROM]] — 06:54, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

==Interesting...==
Wait, according to the anime, [[rotom]] can move even when it's not in it's battle mode. Wait, what? Okay, '''now''' I'm confused. Can someone help me with this? Oh, by the way... '''STOP FIGHTING/ARGUING ABOUT WHETHER ROTOM IS A LEGENDARY OR NOT!!!!''' I'm sick of your squabbling. --[[User:16ipodfanatic|16ipodfanatic]] 03:53, 15 June 2009 (UTC)16ipodfanatic
:Thanks for bringing it up again. That's really just what we wanted. And anime =/= games. The two canons do things differently. Just because something happens in one, it doesn't have to happen in the other. — [[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|THE TROM]] — 04:04, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

== Name origins ==

I once added a small note that Rotom may also be a combination of ''rotate'' and possibly ''atom'', which got removed. Sure Charon may have named Rotom, '''but might I add that Rotom existed before Platinum? Charon was probably not even near their heads when they were choosing a name for Rotom at that time.''' So it seems to make sense to me that in the REAL WORLD, Rotom's name origin was most likely different back then. Yes it's name is motor backwards, but I was just trying to show that there were probably other possiblities why it was named that. [[User:Mudkipchan|Mudkipchan]] 07:24, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
:I agree, We have another possible name origin for {{p|Electrode}}--[[User:Force Fire|'''F''']][[Ho-Oh (Pokémon)|orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F''']][[Lugia (Pokémon)|ire]] 07:37, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
::Had it been based off of something else, surely the journal would have reflected that, like ''I have decided to name this most wondrous Pokémon 'Rotom.' Simple though it may be, Rotom emerged to me like a '''Rot'''atting a'''tom'''... Surely the link is obvious?''--[[User:MisterE13|Mister]][[User talk:MisterE13|'''E''']][[Special:Contributions/MisterE13|13]] 20:22, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
:::Honestly, there's usually only one reason for naming it, and we all know Platinum was planned during DP. They just needed to give a reason to buy Pt. It's like how Phione was named after a clione, not "clone" or "phony" or anything else. They put in the journal exactly what they named it for, making it the only truly canonical name origin. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 22:15, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

I was just thinking whether the french name for Rotom comes from the word "phantasma" (ghost) rather than the word "plasma". I know it's a Plasma Pokémon but it's also a ghost... [[User:Gronast|Gronast]] 22:24, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

== About the banning ==

:"As of the official Japanese tournament held in 2008, all Rotom forms have been banned from official tournaments. This is due to the special status of the alternate forms as event-exclusive Pokémon."
But wait a second.. you can get the Rotom formes without any extra events in HGSS (it's in Silph Co., not sure if you need to beat Red or anything), and I assume that the 2010 tourney from what I've heard uses HGSS only. So they're not really all that event-exclusive..? I think there might be some rewording needed here... ▫▪''[[User:Tina|Ťïňắ]]'' [[User talk:Tina|♫]][[Special:Contributions/Tina|♥]] 06:46, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
:Has the 2010 rules list been released yet? It could have been updated now that the formes are all for the taking. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 10:08, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
::Just checked the banlist (somewhere on [http://www.pokemon.co.jp/special/wcs0910/game/reg.html here]), the only Pokémon that are banned are Mew, Celebi, Jirachi, Deoxys, Phione, Manaphy, Darkrai, Shaymin and Arceus. So, I'm assuming that it's legal to use the Rotom formes.. I'm not really good with wording things though, more of a typo fixer, so uh... can someone change that on the page? ;; ▫▪''[[User:Tina|Ťïňắ]]'' [[User talk:Tina|♫]][[Special:Contributions/Tina|♥]] 17:38, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
== In explorers of sky... ==

Alright. Pokémon mystery dungeon explorers of sky was released after platinum was, right? Well, I was wondering if there is any way to change its rotom's form in explorers of sky. If anybody knows anything about that, it would help. Thanks! {{unsigned|Luke6256}}

== Multiple Rotom ==

Could someone bring mutliple Rotom and appliance them or is it only one at a time? [[User:Aura-Knight|Aura-Knight]] 04:22, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
:Multiple Rotom can be in different formes at the same time (If you have multiple Rotom in your party it will ask which one you want to go into the appliance), but you can only have one of each forme at a time. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] [[User talk:Werdnae|(talk)]] 07:18, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

== Roton ==
Under Rotom's orgin it should probably be listed that its based on the quasi particle http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roton.{{unsigned|Juron}}
:That is probably just coincidence, given that it's name is "motor" backwards. While it could be true that seems a bit of stretch, and Rotom doesn't really look like a quasi particle. Also a roton is probably called something different in Japanese. In future please add new discussion topics to the bottom of the talkpage.--[[User:Beligaronia|Beligaronia]] ([[User talk:Beligaronia|talk]]) 10:39, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

== Egg Moves ==
Does Rotom have any? If it doesn't, shouldn't there be a "Egg Moves" section that says "none" {{unsigned|Malake256}}

:Please {{BP|signature policy|sign your comments}} using four tildes (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>).
:And no, Rotom cannot breed, so it does not have any egg moves. We don't add an Egg Moves section for Pokémon that cannot be bred. --[[user:Jioruji_Derako| '''J'''ïörüjï '''Ð'''ērākō.'''>''']][[user talk:Jioruji Derako|''.cнаt'''''^''']] 06:06, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
::But I bred one!! Have you even tried breeding him?? ~[[User:Takharii|Takhar]][[User talk:Takharii|eon]] 07:17, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
:::You can breed Rotom, it is just that they don't have any egg moves that can be compatibly passed down through the parents. So therefore no egg moves, maybe in a later Generation though. –'''[[User talk:MasterKenobi|Master]][[User:MasterKenobi|Kenobi]]''' 10:16, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
:Thanks alot :( I got in trouble for deleting the egg moves section on pokemon that can't breed. Rotom can breed and has no egg moves, it should have a section under moves learned thatrReads "By Breeding/none." {{unsigned|Malake256}}
::You say Rotom can breed, but if only one is available, then how? Because some species cannot breed with Ditto. Though this is mainly legendary species, I think there are some non-legendary Pokémon that cannot either. [[User:FrozenStrategy|FrozenStrategy]] 12:30, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
:::Yes, Rotom can breed with Ditto. The only Pokémon that can't are Legendaries (aside from {{p|Manaphy}}) and, if I'm not mistaken, {{tt|{{p|Nidorina}} and {{p|Nidoqueen}}|I think...}}. [[User:Takharii|'''たか''']][[User talk:Takharii|'''はり''']][[Special:Contributions/Takharii|'''い''']] 12:35, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
::::...and Baby Pokémon ({{p|Pichu}}, {{p|Riolu}}, {{p|Munchlax}} etc). [[User:Takharii|'''たか''']][[User talk:Takharii|'''はり''']][[Special:Contributions/Takharii|'''い''']] 12:38, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
:::::The reason for that is egg group, not their legendary/baby status Rotom is in the {{egg|Indeterminate}} egg group, but can only breed with Ditto as it is genderless, while those that can't breed even with Ditto are in the {{egg|No Eggs Discovered}} egg group. <sc>[[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]]</sc> [[User talk:Werdnae|(talk)]] 20:33, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

== Caption ==

Normal Roton just says "Artwork of Normal Rotom from". Can someone fix that? [[User:CuboneKing|Cu]][[User talk:CuboneKing|bo]][[Special:Contributions/CuboneKing|ne]][[Cubone (Pokémon)|King]] 19:13, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

== Forced reversion ==

It would be helpful and informative to list all the ways Rotom can be reverted back to normal forme and be stripped of its forme-specific move. I know for certain using Rotom in the Soul Silver Battle Frontier reverts him to his regular forme, and I am not sure but I believe taking Rotom into the union room also changes him back to normal. Does anyone know all the causes for this? Should this be added on the page? {{u|Podunk}}
:Please remember to add new sections to the '''bottom''' of the talk page. And sign your comments with four tildes <nowiki>(~~~~).</nowiki>--[[User:Pokelova|''Poké'']][[User talk:Pokelova|lova!]] 22:37, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

== Manga pics being added ==

So I'm adding the Pics of Rotom as it appears in the manga (YES I got them from Serebii...but theres a bunch of pics from there...so sue me...)

and I was wondering that when I was done they could add them to the article and make it so that it changes forms along with the game and anime artwork ([[User:Ataro|Ataro]] 18:16, 2 August 2010 (UTC))

Also I am done adding the pics (they are to be replaced with better versions when available)

([[User:Ataro|Ataro]] 02:51, 3 August 2010 (UTC))

must I always be ignored?... [[User:Ataro|Ataro]] 20:07, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
I can do it if you tell me where they are.--[[User:MisterE13|Mister]][[User talk:MisterE13|'''E''']][[Special:Contributions/MisterE13|13]] 20:26, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

http://archives.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Special:NewFiles&until=20100803105022

on this page and thanks... [[User:Ataro|Ataro]] 20:31, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
:I would advise against adding images from Serebii. He gets pissed if we take his stuff. --[[User:Zesty Cactus|'''Zesty''']][[User talk:Zesty Cactus|'''Cactus''']] 20:34, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

and yet there are a million of them uploaded... also wash and Fan rotom I got from the site.. [[User:Ataro|Ataro]] 20:52, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
::Wait so should I add them?--[[User:MisterE13|Mister]][[User talk:MisterE13|'''E''']][[Special:Contributions/MisterE13|13]] 22:27, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Add it for now. But I would like to remind everyone that taking images from Serebii is a huge no-no, and I expect these images to be replaced by your own scans in the future. —♥ [[User:Jello|Jello]][[User Talk:Jello|talk]] 22:31, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

==Evolution section==
I raised the complaint on another page that Pokémon which change forme rather than evolving ought to have this section renamed. But this one has an added problem: Can Rotom really change directly from, say, Mow Form to Fan Form? I thought it had to exit the device it was already in first, in which case we should use a template more like that of {{p|Eevee}} and its evolutions, with the forms all changing between Normal and the specialized forms. --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] 16:07, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
:In Platinum at least it can go straight from one to another without the need to manually revert it to normal first. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] [[User talk:Werdnae|(talk)]] 19:56, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
::Okay. My bad. I thought I had heard otherwise. --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] 22:21, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
:::Can go straight from one to the other on HGSS too. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 10:01, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

== generation v ==

Can we add to the page in the physiology section that Rotom's room in black/white is in the department store? [[User:Kidburla|Kidburla]] 14:57, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
:Done. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 18:50, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

== Add To Trivia? ==

Should I add to the trivia that if you spell 'rotom' backwards you get 'motor' or is that in the name origin that I didn't read? [[User:Ethan brendan lucas|Ethan brendan lucas]] 10:43, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
:It's already in the name origin section. --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] 11:08, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

== Black/White Location (Edit Request) ==

{{Availability|
type=electric |
type2={{#switch: {{#time: w}}|0|6=Ghost|1=Fire|2=Water|3=Ice|4=Flying|5=Grass}}|
gen=4 |
dprarity=One |
dparea=TV in [[Old Chateau]] ([[Time|Night]] only, after obtaining [[National Pokédex]]) |
ptrarity=One |
ptarea=TV in [[Old Chateau]] ([[Time|Night]] only) |
hgssex=dppt|
hgssarea=[[Trade]] |
bwrarity=One |
bwarea={{rt|15|Unova}} ([[Trade]] {{p|Ditto}})|
}}
'''X'''[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']]'''X''' 22:01, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

== Intro ==

I didn't want to just add this so soon after being unprotected, but I propose a cleanup of the messy intro:

While it is not known to evolve into or from any other Pokémon, it has the ability to possess the motors of certain appliances and [[form differences#Rotom|change forms]].
*When it does not possess an appliance, it is Normal Rotom, and is {{2t|Electric|Ghost}}
*When it possesses a {{wp|microwave oven}} it becomes Heat Rotom, and is {{2t|Electric|Fire}}
*When it possesses a {{wp|washing machine}} it becomes Wash Rotom, and is {{2t|Electric|Water}}
*When it possesses a {{wp|refrigerator}} it becomes Frost Rotom, and is {{2t|Electric|Ice}}
*When it possesses a {{wp|mechanical fan|rotary fan}} it becomes Fan Rotom, and is {{2t|Electric|Flying}}
*When it possesses a {{wp|lawn mower}} it becomes Mow Rotom, and is {{2t|Electric|Grass}}.

In Generation IV, it was {{2t|Electric|Ghost}} regardless of its form.

'''X'''[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']]'''X''' 06:47, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

== Trivia Correction? ==

"While some other Pokémon with alternate forms have different base stat distributions in their other forms, Rotom is the only Pokémon whose alternate forms have a different base stat total than that of the original form."

Doesn't Darmanitan's forms also have different base stat totals? --[[User:Enervation|Enervation]] 21:15, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, it does. Thanks for pointing that out! :--[[User:SuperAipom7|SuperAipom7]] ''([[User talk:SuperAipom7|Wanna chat?]])'' 21:18, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

== Fan Rotom ==

If the opponent uses a {{type|Ground}} move against a Fan Rotom holding an [[Air Balloon]] ([[Generation V]] only), provided {{m|Gastro Acid}}, {{m|Gravity}}, etc. are not used. what will the message be? Will it say that it did not affect Rotom, Rotom makes Ground moves miss with {{a|Levitate}}, or what? This doesn't really matter, and isn't related to the topic at all, but why doesn't Bulbapedia have an icon next to the site name that appears on the browser (on Mozilla Firefox)? {{unsigned|Enervation}}
:It says "It doesn't affect Rotom...". The loss of favicon (that icon you are referring to) is due to the server restructure, and we are working on fixing it. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 08:44, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

== Rotom's sprite in DP ==

I think the cell for Rotom's DP sprite in the sprite table should be given a rowspan of 5 in its coding, to combine it into one long vertical cell alongside the six in Platinum and HGSS. This will make it visually clear there is only one sprite for Rotom in the Generation IV pilot games, rather than pushing it up to the top of each generational row and leaving an empty space below. What do you think? P.S. Taking a look at the HTML for the sprite table doesn't seem to show any way the rowspan of any sprite can be modified, so I'd be curious to know more. [[User:Haxorus|'''Hax''']][[User talk:Haxorus|'''or''']][[Special:MyContributions|'''us''']] 09:13, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

== Why are its Formes treated as Individual Pokemons? ==

According to the trivia placed by editors, they consider each one of Rotom's formes as an individual Pokemon. (eg. Mow Rotom is the only Pokemon to have Grass-Electric type combination?) Discuss. [[User:Blueknightex|Blueknightex]] 11:58, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
:It isn't. It's just saying that Mow (forme) rotom is the only Grass/Electric type. It's like the {{p|Arceus}} (or {{t|Poison}}; one of them) saying Poison form Arceus is the only poison type legendary.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 12:04, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
:: Thanks for responding. I know what you mean but the way its written makes it seem like we're treating the formes like individual Pokemons though(eg.Mow Rotom is the only Grass-type ''Pokémon''?..). That's the impression that I'm getting when I first read it but I do know that its not completely true. [[User:Blueknightex|Blueknightex]] 09:58, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

== Pokemon Special ==

Should it be noted that Rotom is apparently considered a Legendary in Pokemon Special? I haven't read the Platinum chapter yet, but it shows Rotom in silhouette with the other Sinnoh Legendaries that Charon is after. [[User:Pokemega32|Pokemega32]] 22:21, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
:Given that it's Charon, it's quite possible he was pursuing Sinnoh legendary Pokémon and Rotom. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 12:42, 2 May 2012 (UTC)
::I don't see why we should assume that. Charon and the Association President both just say he's searching for the Legendary Pokemon of Sinnoh. Charon never even directly interacts with Rotom in the manga outside of it attacking him at the end to destroy his machine, so it's not like he considers it special. [[User:Pokemega32|Pokemega32]] 10:18, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

== Levitate Info ==
At the type effectiveness box of pokemon with the ability Levitate, the following is written:

Notes:
If Gravity is in effect, the Pokémon is given an Iron Ball, the opponent has the Ability Mold Breaker, Turboblaze or Teravolt, or it is affected by Gastro Acid, Skill Swap*, Entrainment*, Worry Seed, Simple Beam or Smack Down, the effectiveness of Ground-type moves is 2×.

So, I wondered if someone could edit the part above and make it look like this:

If Gravity is in effect, the Pokémon is given an Iron Ball '''or uses a contact move and hits an opponent with the ability Mummy''', the opponent has the Ability Mold Breaker, Turboblaze or Teravolt, or it is affected by Gastro Acid, Skill Swap*, Entrainment*, Worry Seed, Simple Beam or Smack Down, the effectiveness of Ground-type moves is 2×.--[[User:Rabitsd|Rabitsd]] ([[User talk:Rabitsd|talk]]) 12:03, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
:That makes sense, but I don't really have the authority to add that... [[User:KyuremsIceBlade|KyuremsIceBlade]] ([[User talk:KyuremsIceBlade|talk]]) 23:03, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

== Rotom's Room only appears for the original Old Chateau rotom ==

I traded a Rotom from a friend and bred it to get a Level 1 Rotom, which I tried taking to Silph Co. in HeartGold as the first Pokémon in my party, but the counter lady, elevator guard and Steven were all still there, and I couldn't get into the elevator. Either this is a glitch or Rotom's Room is only accessible to the original Rotom from Old Chateau. [[User:Zywxn|Zywxn]] 12:42, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

== PWT type-expert. Worth noting in trivia? ==

Just wondering if it was worth noting in the trivia that because of it's form/type changing, Rotom can enter more Type Specialist tournaments at the PWT than any other pokemon, at 7. In fact I think it's the only pokemon that can enter more than 2. [[User:Magentaman|Magentaman]] ([[User talk:Magentaman|talk]]) 18:32, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

== Gen VI movesets ==

I can't figure out the coding, but the forme specific movesets still say Generation V at the top. Can someone who knows how please change this so they say Generation VI? [[User:Yamitora1|Yamitora1]] ([[User talk:Yamitora1|talk]]) 03:16, 16 February 2014 (UTC)

== X/Y location directs to Gen 2 Tuesday listing ==

Not sure if this is the best place to put this, but I noticed that the "Tu" link under the X/Y location entry for Rotom links to the Tuesday section of Gen 2 on the "Days of the Week" article. Any ideaos on how to fix that?

--[[User:Gumbyx84|Gumbyx84]] ([[User talk:Gumbyx84|talk]]) 20:50, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

== Formes in Generation VI ==

Is the [[Lost Hotel]] the only place to find the alternate forms of Rotom, or is there some Rotom's Room analog in Kalos? I'd really like to get a Frost Rotom, but I don't have the time to search one out in the Lost Hotel. [[User:KyuremsIceBlade|'''''KYUREM'S''''']] [[User talk:KyuremsIceBlade|'''''ICE''''']] [[Special:Contributions/KyuremsIceBlade|'''''BLADE''''']] 22:47, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
:There is a box with the appliances on the 2nd floor of the Professor's Lab in Lumiose City. [[User:TheSilentHero|TheSilentHero]] ([[User talk:TheSilentHero|talk]]) 06:27, 10 April 2014 (UTC)
::Thanks! :) [[User:KyuremsIceBlade|'''''KYUREM'S''''']] [[User talk:KyuremsIceBlade|'''''ICE''''']] [[Special:Contributions/KyuremsIceBlade|'''''BLADE''''']] 01:53, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

== Alternate Formes type ==
should rotom's other formes be included in being the lightest of their typings? [[User:Animaltamer7|Animaltamer7]]11:08, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

== Time Travel ==

Would appear that in the latest amine episode XY80, Rotom Elevator is a thing and has the ability to time travel it's occupants back and forward in time. {{unsigned|SorrowDemonica}}

== Pokédex Rotom ==

In the new trailer they unveiled a Pokédex Rotom, are we leaving this until we know whether it fights in battle?
[[User:Ashitic|Ashitic]] ([[User talk:Ashitic|talk]]) 13:29, 2 June 2016 (UTC)

== Pokédex form image uploaded ==

Since the page is protected, would somebody mind adding [http://archives.bulbagarden.net/wiki/File:Rotom-Pok%C3%A9dex.png this image] in the infobox of Rotom's forms. And I know, it might not be an actual Pokémon playable in battle, but the official website states that <code> It's known as the Rotom Pokédex, and it's inhabited by Rotom</code> which means that it really IS a Pokémon, and even if that doesn't work, don't forget that {{p|Pichu}} has the Spiky-Eared form even though it doesn't exist in the games. [[User:MannedTooth| MannedTooth ]] ([[User_Talk:MannedTooth|Talk]]) 21:21, 25 September 2016 (UTC)
:Spiky-Eared Pichu did exist in the games, though. Just, not outside of HG/SS. - ''unsigned comment from [[User:Missingno. Master|Missingno. Master]] ([[User talk:Missingno. Master|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Missingno._Master|contribs]])'' 21:25, 25 September 2016 (UTC)

== Rotom Pokédex Biology Question ==

So I was wondering, Should the Rotom Pokédex be also mentioned in the Biology page? As its forms are mentioned on so, why not include that as well? Also Should here be a Trivia on Rotom being the only know Pokemon that can be a Pokédex? Just wanted to ask before making changes.--[[User:Jacob9594|Jacob Kogan]] ([[User talk:Jacob9594|talk]]) 03:21, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

== Normal Rotom ==

Where does the name "Normal Rotom" for the base form originate from? As far as I can tell, official material (including pokemon.com's Pokédex, the in-game ORAS Pokédex, and Pokémon Ultra Sun & Pokémon Ultra Moon Edition: The Official National Pokédex) treats it like Kyurem and Necrozma's base forms where they're just referred to by the Pokémon's name with no additional terminology. --[[User:Mr. Bonding|Mr. Bonding]] ([[User talk:Mr. Bonding|talk]]) 03:06, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

==Form Change==

I went ahead and updated the text of the 'Form Change' section to reflect the fact that form-specific moves must no longer be learnt to change Rotom's form. [[User:SJ|SJ]] ([[User talk:SJ|talk]]) 12:11, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

== Color Trivia ==

Rotom is the only red Ghost-type Pokémon according to Pokédex colors. All other types have at least 2 unrelated Pokémon, so I think this is somewhat important for trivia. {{unsigned|Pseudonym}}
:Too specific.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 03:56, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

== rotom drone ==

please create a page on rotom drone. it has made few appreances in anime so far. jomit.pika 17:39, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

== Rotom Phone type ==
we not going to do anything with the fact the anime mentions rotom phone is pure electric?[[User:Roserade57|Roserade57]] ([[User talk:Roserade57|talk]]) 07:22, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
:Which episode did you get that from? [[User:Animaltamer7|Animaltamer7]] ([[User talk:Animaltamer7|talk]]) 11:50, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
::None. The anime has stated the Rotom '''Pokédex's''' type, not the Rotom '''Phone's'''. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 11:59, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
:::If you meant Rotom Pokédex, then it's done. If you really mean Rotom Phone, I'd like to see a source.--'''[[User:Team Rocket Grunt|Rocket]] [[User talk:Team Rocket Grunt|Grunt]]''' 15:13, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
::::thats what I meant, my bad. i kinda wanted it in the main lead and the infobox but i guess thats only game stuff?[[User:Roserade57|Roserade57]] ([[User talk:Roserade57|talk]]) 01:01, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
:::::That's correct. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 08:47, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

== Sources for designers? ==

Do we have citations/sources on who designed Rotom forms? (on the Trivia section) [[User:Anzasquiddles|Anzasquiddles]] ([[User talk:Anzasquiddles|talk]]) 19:34, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

== Rotom Phone ==

I have seen that after the most recent trailer for Pokémon Scarlet and Violet the old Rotom Phone art its gone, I think the article should include both arts, even though the look almost the same, since we still don't know the differences in the functionality between both iterations, and we should add a note in the biology part of the article stating that the model produced for the Rotom phone got updated in the time gap between both games. --[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 04:02, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

== Rotor + Motor backward? ==

Kind of shaped like a rotor and honestly makes more sense than it being based on a light bulb.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotor_(electric)[[User:Icycatelf|Icycatelf]] ([[User talk:Icycatelf|talk]]) 20:29, 2 February 2025 (UTC)

:Example of a rotor shaped even more like Rotom: https://b2b.geko.pl/en/rotor-for-electric-lawn-mower-g83027[[User:Icycatelf|Icycatelf]] ([[User talk:Icycatelf|talk]]) 20:54, 2 February 2025 (UTC)

== Frost Rotom issue ==

The artwork for Frost Rotom doesn't show up on Rotom's page box. Is there a way to fix that?[[User:Machampionship|Machampionship]] ([[User talk:Machampionship|talk]]) 01:34, 14 November 2025 (UTC)

== Error in the Pokédex entries section ==

Hi, I noticed there might be an error specifically in the Blueberry Pokédex number shown for Rotom, it currently says #129, yet in the [[List_of_Pok%C3%A9mon_by_Blueberry_Pok%C3%A9dex_number]] it says it should be #41.

Can someone with the DLC confirm which one is correct? [[User:Cabecote|Cabecote]] ([[User talk:Cabecote|talk]]) 13:22, 24 December 2025 (UTC)

== Stereo Rotom ==

I don't think we should put rotom in its stereo form has one of it main forms, it hasn't appeared in a main line game only in Pokétopia. [[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 21:46, 24 March 2026 (UTC)

Talk:Electric rodents

2025-12-31T11:47:21Z

Neos: /* Mega Raichu X and Mega Raichu Y */ new section

Why should it be deleted? Electric Rodents is not only part of the fandom (and it is part, just search deviantart, tumblre, forums etc to see for yourself), but also a "Formula" that the pokemon creators used from the 1st generation onwards. U can't deny the similarity of these pokemon(Not only in appearance but in their "place" in the pokemon universe), even if the don't share an evolution line with each other. [[User:Mr. Bell|Mr. Bell]] ([[User talk:Mr. Bell|talk]]) 00:50, 12 December 2013 (UTC)
:It's not a formula in-game. Look at their base stat totals (which is probably the most significant way of comparing unrelated Pokemon) and most of their other numerical values. They're just plain not all the same in almost any category. There is a recurring design motif, but that's an opinionated statement (no matter how obvious it is), so it doesn't belong in the mainspace of a ''fact''-based encyclopedia like Bulbapedia. If you want to expand {{DL|Appendix:Fan terminology|Pikachu counterpart|the entry on Appendix:Fan terminology}}{{tt|*|note that the Appendix namespace is not held to the same must-be-a-hard-fact requirements as the mainspace, so this is an appropriate topic there}}, that's your prerogative, but I really don't think this has enough factual information to support a full article. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 01:29, 12 December 2013 (UTC)

:And in response to {{u|Glik}}'s edit summary, "''It's a popular fan term for a group of related Pokémon that have no explicitly stated relation in-game but whose relation fans widely agree upon. Nowhere in the article does it say that it's a canonical group.''" I wouldn't call this "widely agreed upon"; anyone who's been around since Gen 2 will tell you that Marill was promoted as if it were the Pikachu counterpart in those games before Gen 3 retooled "Pikachu counterparts" to require the Electric type. As for the last part of your statement, the mainspace is for canonical content only. Like I said above, the Appendix namespace is fine for this topic, but it simply cannot go in the mainspace at all; it doesn't matter whether there's a "fan term" disclaimer at the top. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 01:34, 12 December 2013 (UTC)

I agree that this group is more or less canon, they might not have the same BST, but their designs (and cheeks!!) and the fact that they are owned by a main character in the anime just can´t be ignored. The pseudolegendaries get less similarities every gen while the electric rodents get more. --[[User:Nico649|Nico649]] ([[User talk:Nico649|talk]]) 01:50, 12 December 2013 (UTC)
:Plusle and Minun were never owned by a main character.
:I would consider the early bird Pokemon for each Generation ({{p|Pidgey}}, {{p|Hoothoot}}, {{p|Taillow}}, {{p|Starly}}, {{p|Pidove}}, {{p|Fletchling}}) to be more similar than I would consider these "Electric Rodents" to be. I mean, at least you're not skipping a Generation there (Pichu is explicitly Pikachu's baby form, so it hardly "counts"). And Pachirisu and Emolga don't fit so well with all the others IMO. (That's "IMO", as in, anyone else's opinion will not sway me in the slightest, it's simply '''my''' feeling.)
:The thing is, you could just as well make a page for those early bird Pokemon. Probably with ''better'' cause, even. '''Ash''' has had ''every single one'' of '''them'''. Not "'''a''' main character"; Ash. Not "all except Plusle and Minun"; all period. The only thing different about the groups is that Pikachu became the franchise's mascot, so people want to ascribe some special significance to ''its'' group of similar Pokemon. ...But nothing in the franchise actually raises any of the other "Electric Rodents" to anywhere ''near'' the same level as Pikachu (except perhaps Pichu, which is related to Pikachu and therefore not really a surprise).
:Maybe if you wanted to make a single page about all the similar Pokemon between Generations (the "Electric Rodents", the early birds, the early bugs, the early ground sorts (e.g., Rattata, Poochyena), Zubat/Swoobat...the starters...and so on...), that might be moderately worth a whole page. There are trends, certainly. But most of those trend really don't deserve their own pages. That goes the same for Pikachu's group, which is not actually special just because Pikachu is in the group. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 02:34, 12 December 2013 (UTC)
:::The mainspace is not "for canonical content only". The notability requirements says "not all non-canon material is relevant, but neither is all non-canon material irrelevant". That's the whole point of Project:Fandom, to make articles on the notable bits of fandom that are not explicitly canonical. There is a large section of fandom that accepts that there is a pattern of Electric types modelled after rodents appearing every generation, that's why it's on the Appendix. I personally think that the group's members gaining a repeating, important function in the anime starting with the Diamond and Pearl series warrants the group having an article of its own. But I also agree with Tiddlywinks: the generational trends would be better if they had one combined article. [[User:Glik|Glik]] ([[User talk:Glik|talk]]) 03:03, 12 December 2013 (UTC)
A Couple of things I would like to say:
*First of all-presenting a different valid subject for an article (early birds) doesn't mean that this subject isn't valid. Maybe we should just have both articles?
*Secondly, u are correct that the usage of "Electric Rodents" in the canon(esp. anime) hasn't been constant. But this is true with other subjects as well, as the anime itself changed each generation(i.e. which character has starter pokemon).But for the past 3 generation there is a constant formula.
*Electric Rodents is a popular fandom term, google it and find out.
*Aside from fandom, the similarities between these pokemon is found in canon-their origin and design of course, their egg group, their base stat isn't equal but it is the lowest of all others' electric pokemon, and of course their use in anime in the past 3 gen.
*And a more meta-encyclopedia argument- i can't see why would we want to delete it? Even if one can argue about the similarity of them, it is clear that many believe it exist. Bulbapedia should be the source for knowledge about pokemon, why would we want to deny this knowledge from our readers?
[[User:Mr. Bell|Mr. Bell]] ([[User talk:Mr. Bell|talk]]) 20:35, 12 December 2013 (UTC)
:You're still just talking about a general trend that is only remotely special in this case because Pikachu is in this group. A page about ''all'' of those general trends would be great. Redirect "Electric rodents" to there, and you can add any minor comments about all their commonalities there. But the "Electric rodents" are not nearly special enough to have their own page, nor would ''every'' trend deserve its own page. A list of trends, including the Electric rodents, is the only really sensible solution. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 21:44, 12 December 2013 (UTC)
::There may be other trends, but i think the similarity in this one is much greater, and it is much more present in the fandom. pseudo legendaries might also be considered just "a trend", as the similarities between them differs through the timeline of the series as well. The fact is that this trend is becoming more and more a formula in the canon, and it is already present in the fandom. I think it "deserves" an article, and by putting it with other "trends" we'll just create a massive unreadable article. [[User:Mr. Bell|Mr. Bell]] ([[User talk:Mr. Bell|talk]]) 23:53, 12 December 2013 (UTC)
:::Pseudo-legendaries (here, at least) have very specific and objective requirements. The only completely objective thing that every one of the "Electric rodents" have in common is that they're Electric types. And most other trends aren't likely to have such objective requirements either.
:::As I said above, I actually consider Pachirisu and Emolga to be poor fits{{tt|*|I'm not saying I don't see the similarities, I'm just saying I consider them rather thin}} among the other "Electric rodents", as far as design goes. Who's right? I'll tell you now: that question has no right answer.
:::As far as creating a massive article, I imagine you believe that every trend would be roughly as big as this page currently is. But the fact is, most of this page is little more than fluff. Pretty much the only thing this page actually does that's not (I believe) done elsewhere is the top/intro section. The rest is unimportant and/or can easily be found on the pages for any of the Pokemon. If each trend is therefore only about as big as that top section, then the whole page wouldn't actually be ''that'' big (big enough perhaps, but not absolutely massive). And really, the only way to know if it can work is to try first. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 02:17, 13 December 2013 (UTC)
::::As an encyclopedia we should present the subject in the best and easiest way to our reader-no send them to other articles. If I want a comparison about Electric Rodents, I want it to be done in a good and thorough way. I'm really against deleting this article not because of this article, but because the message it sends about how we see this encyclopedia. If u want to create a page for all the the "trends" together, it is possible to try, but we shouldn't delete this page before we find out the consequences. [[User:Mr. Bell|Mr. Bell]] ([[User talk:Mr. Bell|talk]]) 12:35, 13 December 2013 (UTC)
:::I agree with making a page about groups of similar Pokemon, it wouldn't be that large, it would only consist of a table with sprites, a description and trivia. It would be as long the [[Legendary Pokémon]] page, probably much less. --[[User:Nico649|Nico649]] ([[User talk:Nico649|talk]]) 00:14, 15 December 2013 (UTC)
If we keep this page, we would also need to make pages about the regional birds and the regional early normal type 2-stage Pokémon. There is as much a pattern for those as there is for electric rodents. ☆[[User:Solar Dragon|The]] [[User talk:Solar Dragon|Solar]] [[Special:Contributions/Solar Dragon|Dragon]]☆ 21:32, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
::I still think it would be better to expand the entries on [[Appendix:Fan terminology]] than to have a mainspace article about opinionated patterns like these. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 21:44, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
:::There's a key difference between Electric Rodents and Pseudolegendaries. All fans can actually agree on what an electric rodent actually is. If anything should go, it should be Pseudolegendaries. Or at least, it shouldn't be mentioned on the opening paragraph of Pokémon pages. It has about as much place as putting Electric Rodent at the start of the relevant pages, if not less, given that, again, at least EVERYONE can agree on the conditions of an electric rodent as opposed to the pseudolegendaries, which are in constant debate. [[User:Me, Hurray!|Me, Hurray!]] ([[User talk:Me, Hurray!|talk]]) 23:24, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
::::It's exactly the opposite — pseudolegendaries have a very clear and strict definition, so there's literally no room for disagreement whatsoever about what Pokemon are or aren't pseudolegendaries. On the other hand, this is a very loose aggregation with no unarguable definition, and as I noted last week, many fans are more likely to group Marill with the Pikachu ripoffs than exclude it. (I am more in favor of moving both to the Appendix namespace than keeping both in the mainspace, if people insist they belong in the same place.) [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 23:43, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
:::::I agree with the deletion. Pikaclones is the more used term anyway. [[User:C$|C$]] ([[User talk:C$|talk]]) 01:05, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

== Trivia ==

Regardless of whether or not the article stays, I think some of the trivia needs to go. I don't mind the first two points, although the first is sorta questionable, considering Raichu is the only one who evolved from a non-baby, but I digress. The last four simply don't seem notable at all. They are, "Raichu is the tallest of the electric rodents at 2'07" (0.8 m)," "Dedenne is the shortest of the electric rodents at 0'08" (0.2 m)," "Pichu is the lightest of the electric rodents at 4.4 lbs. (2.0 kg)," and "Raichu is the heaviest of the electric rodents weighing 66.1 lbs. (30.0 kg)." While undeniably trivial, it doesn't seem notable or even interesting. It seems like a bit for me to delete, though, with no consensus. --[[User:WyndFox|Wynd]] [[User talk:WyndFox|Fox]] 04:58, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

:Height and weight are more important to a Pokémon to make sure each Pokémon have their own height and weight, so why it should be remove just because someone dislikes the trivia who's the tallest and who's the shortest. And there are the list of Pokémon pages about height and weight, so if you want to read it, just do it. [[User:Cinday123|Cinday123]] ''([[User talk:Cinday123|Talk]])'' 05:13, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

::So interesting trivia shall keep those, so don't tell anyone that height and weight trivia is not notable and not interesting, so it's true. [[User:Cinday123|Cinday123]] ''([[User talk:Cinday123|Talk]])'' 05:24, 10 January 2014 (UTC)
:::I agree with WyndFox. All height and weight trivia on all group articles should be deleted. It's not interesting whatsoever. It's just an inane space-waster. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 05:33, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

::::Fine, I'll delete trivia about height and weight, it's not interesting at all. [[User:Cinday123|Cinday123]] ''([[User talk:Cinday123|Talk]])'' 05:41, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

== Undeleted ==

This page has been undeleted, due to now being a well-established, officially acknowledged group with actual content to cover. [[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']] 02:31, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

== 14 electric rodents ==

Is Raichu counted twice because of his Alolan Form? Isn't that technically one Pokemon species? If we're considering alternate forms then there are also all those forms of Pikachu and Pichu that could be mentioned, I think.--'''[[User:Team Rocket Grunt|Rocket]] [[User talk:Team Rocket Grunt|Grunt]]''' 09:48, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
:Good call. This was a miscalculation on my part, so I've fixed it. Thanks! [[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']] 23:47, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

== Forms and stats ==

I don't think the stat comparisons are super necessary here, and I also don't think we need to mention every single form/variant of Pikachu and Pichu. [[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']] 17:12, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
:I like the stat comparisons actually. It's interesting to see how the stat totals compare for the single-stage rodents versus the ones that are part of an evo line, which one is the fastest, and so on. I agree that we don't need to mention all the forms, though-we don't need multiple entries that have identical stats. Partner Pikachu can stay because it has different stats, but all the others should go. [[User:Storm Aurora|'''Storm Aurora''']] ([[User talk:Storm Aurora|talk]]) 17:20, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
::If the stats are to stay, I would like to propose a vertical layout such as [[Special:Permalink/4002485|User:Tiddlywinks/stats/r]] or [[Special:Permalink/3898629|User:SnorlaxMonster/groupstats/entry]], instead of the horizontal one used currently, to make it better for thinner screens and mobile. → [[User:SuperPikaPool13|Pika]][[User talk:SuperPikaPool13|Tepig]][[Special:Contribs/SuperPikaPool13|999]] 18:14, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
:::A lot of minutia has also been added about the different forms beyond just the base stats, which I feel adds unnecessary bloat to the article. [[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']] 18:17, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
::::I'm okay with keeping the stats, though I agree we should mainspace one of the linked templates. I've also made an edit that I feel helps strike a balance with the details that have been added recently relating to forms/variants. [[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']] 19:12, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

== Cramorant ==

Can Cramorant with Pikachu in its mouth count as a "similar Pokemon to Electric rodents" or just Pikachu's form? I'm asking because I just realized that Cramorant is a version exclusive to The Teal Mask expansion for Scarlet as a counterpart to Violet's Morpeko. Clearly they were paired because of the Pikaclone connection.--'''[[User:Team Rocket Grunt|Rocket]] [[User talk:Team Rocket Grunt|Grunt]]''' 18:15, 2 November 2024 (UTC)
:I think that counts and worth mentioning.--[[User:Jacob9594|Jacob9594 ]] ([[User talk:Jacob9594|talk]]) 20:19, 2 November 2024 (UTC)
::That's a neat connection. I wonder if it might work better as Trivia though? [[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']] 21:57, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

== Mega Raichu X and Mega Raichu Y ==

Since in the group we have Raichu and Alolan Raichu, shouldn’t we also include it's Mega evolution forms too?? [[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 11:47, 31 December 2025 (UTC)

Talk:Zygarde (Pokémon)

2025-11-01T10:05:50Z

Neos: /* Character? */ new section

==Legendary?==
Isn't this a Legendary Pokémon? If so, why isn't it listed as such? --[[User:WyndFox|Wynd]] [[User talk:WyndFox|Fox]] 05:57, 24 October 2013 (UTC)
:Two possible reasons: either someone simply overlooked it or the staff is waiting for official confirmation of its legendary status before adding it. (Though it seems obvious that it's the Rayquaza/Giratina/Kyurem of this generation, there's always still the infinitesimal chance that Nintendo could be throwing us for a loop somehow.) [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 06:03, 24 October 2013 (UTC)
::It's just been overlooked. It's a Legendary. [[User:Ataro|Ataro]] ([[User talk:Ataro|talk]]) 06:08, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

== Dex Trivia? ==

Is it notable that it's last both numerically in the National Dex and alphabetically? --[[User:WyndFox|Wynd]] [[User talk:WyndFox|Fox]] 19:39, 24 October 2013 (UTC)
:I don't have an issue with it. '''''[[User:Pokemaster97|--Pokemaster]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|97]]''''' 19:54, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

Unless they make a "Generation VII" or Expansion Pack (like in The Sims) where the grass starter or one of the early Pokémon has a name like "Zyzkrieg". Then it would not be anymore. (but i think the next game should be the Gen. III Remake in 2014, and then "Pokemon Z" in 2015, and the generation VII if it can exist properly, would be in 2016. Propably introduce hybrid Pokémon or Poké-humans or a subplot with aliens or time travel or somesuch.) --[[User:Kaiko Mikkusu|Kaiko Mikkusu]] ([[User talk:Kaiko Mikkusu|talk]]) 19:30, 14 December 2013 (UTC) Kaiko Mikkusu.

Maybe you should keep the crazy fan ideas in the forums. I find those "Poké-humans" very unlikely to made by Nintendo. But we'll never know. Until that happens, we should keep that idea off the encyclopedia. [[User:SeanWheeler|SeanWheeler]] ([[User talk:SeanWheeler|talk]]) 22:29, 14 December 2013 (UTC)

== Image origin ==

Where did this image come from, why does it not look like the usual Ken Sugimori art style, why doesn't it look like the other, front forward facing Zygarde pic I keep seeing next to Xerneas and Yveltal? [[User:Yamitora1|Yamitora1]] ([[User talk:Yamitora1|talk]]) 08:46, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
:It's not the official artwork, only a placeholder that is used for now (at least it seems so to me). It's the Global Link artwork as stated on the file's page. [[User: Ariano|Արիանո]] 08:53, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
::And the image you're talking is just fanart. [[User:Ataro|Ataro]] ([[User talk:Ataro|talk]]) 09:23, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

== Physical appearance ==

Given its underground habits, its partial insect-like appearance and the fact it sports tail-end cerci and six tiny limbs close to its head; I'd say Zygarde's design might've been inspired by a [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beetle#Larva beetle larvae/grub], a [http://bugguide.net/images/raw/NKRKEK0KPKZK6KXKAKMKZSWQHS6QB0UQRSMKPK6QT0ZKB09QVKIKBKXKDKVQRS8KNK0KEKHKWK6Q2K.jpg Ground Beetle larva] to be precise, given its shape. Would it be alright to add that to the origin section? --[[User:Jomarori|Jomarori]] ([[User talk:Jomarori|talk]]) 15:00, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
: I don't see it as a larva, its more or less a serpent. Although with the mention of Zygote likely having some basis for its name, I am kind of thinking sperm cell. Not saying it looks like a sperm cell, at least not a human sperm cell. [[User:Yamitora1|Yamitora1]] ([[User talk:Yamitora1|talk]]) 15:18, 8 November 2013 (UTC)
:: Perhaps it also takes inspiration from the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsuchinoko tsuchinoko], much like Dunsparce? It's notable for being a rather wide serpent, as well as having a notable straightforward "wiggle" rather than slithering from side to side. Also, the tsuchinoko's ability to swallow its own tail merges well with the possible basis on Jörmungandr, which could grasp its own tail even wrapped around the earth. --[[User:Eskay64|Eskay64]] ([[User talk:Eskay64|talk]]) 04:40, 7 January 2014 (UTC)
::: Zygarde's appearance was absolutely inspired by fibuli, these early medieval pins that were common throughout Scandinavia as a means of pinning tunics together. Here are a few examples, [http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3f/Frankish_-_Digitated_Fibula_-_Walters_542443.jpg image 1] [http://imgur.com/ylEuTp5 image 2]. As you can see the idea of a long snakelike body is here along with a flaring head, complete with a bunch of pieces sticking out. These would have been totally normal things for upper class medieval Scandinavians to wear and thus fits Gen 6's Nordic legendary theme. I'm haven't seen this connection made anywhere else, but once I saw it in class I recognized it right a way. Perhaps following that logic we might find some other sort of medieval jewelry references in the other legendaries? {{unsigned|Dockers}}

So I just read that "[Zygarde's] hexagons glow in certain patterns like a computer processing information" and I have to ask: have any of you guys actually seen a computer? There ''has'' to be a better way of describing that that doesn't insult people who know how computers work.

(also I edited Dockers' comment because that picture was huge) {{unsigned|Grent|03:10, 26 April 2014 (UTC)}}

== Zygarde Etymology ==

Just looking at the naming trivia, I can't imagine that Garde is actually tied to the origins of its name. It's very serpent-like and clearly based on Norse mythology, so perhaps Zygote and Midgard - specifically the Midgard Serpent.

== Position in Trio ==

Zygarde is in a Legendary trio with Xerneas an Yveltal, so it's "element" should fit with Creation and Destruction. Considering it's Pokédex entry, I think it's safe to say Xerneas = Creation, Yveltal = Destruction, and Zygarde = PRESERVATION. {{unsigned|Conansboy}}
:Which means that the trio is possibly based upon Hindu mythology.--[[User:Teamg9|Teamg9]] ([[User talk:Teamg9|talk]]) 12:25, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

== Catch rate ==

I doubt that Zygarde's catch rate is really 0. Is this a filler till that info is found, or an error?
[[User:Reywas360|Reywas360]] ([[User talk:Reywas360|talk]]) 13:17, 15 November 2013 (UTC)
:It's a filler.--[[User:NOBODY|NOBODY]] ([[User talk:NOBODY|talk]]) 13:43, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

== Yggdrasil Trio ==

I'm finally starting to thing this, alongside Xerneas and Yveltal were based on Norse Mythology beasts in the Tree of Yggdrasil. They all represent Life, Death and Order as a whole. So should they be called the Yggdrasil Trio?--[[User:Duo2nd|Duo2nd]] ([[User talk:Duo2nd|talk]]) 02:41, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
:Its not really verified they are a trio. At least not yet anyways. As for the Norse basis, its possible they are not based on norse mythology at all, but Hindu mythology or one or more mythologies. As of now, the most popular name for them seems to be Aura Trio if they are a trio. There is a thread about their name on the forum if you're interested. The Thread kind of died but if you have anything to say, there would be the place to say it. [[User:Yamitora1|Yamitora1]] ([[User talk:Yamitora1|talk]]) 03:56, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
::They obviously are a trio. It could not be any more obvious if ot tried. And we have no clue what they are supposed to be based of other than the axes, so it could be either. Or both. As for the name, I guess we'll see how it goes.--[[User:BigBadBatter|BigBadBatter]] ([[User talk:BigBadBatter|talk]]) 23:45, 1 December 2013 (UTC)

== Just wanted to throw it out there ==

Bulbasaur + Zygarde = Bulbagarde

Trivia???{{tt|*|I guess probably not, but I just wanted to throw that out there :D}}

-[[User:KyuremTrainer|KyuremTrainer]] ([[User talk:KyuremTrainer|talk]]) 15:05, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
:I'm going to have to say no on that. '''''[[User:Pokemaster97|--Pokemaster]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|97]]''''' 19:16, 17 November 2013 (UTC)

== Typing oddity ==

Isn't it rather peculiar how Zygarde, the "Order Pokémon", has a defensive type disadvantage against Fairy and an offensive one against Flying, which are the types of Xerneas and Yveltal, respectively?

--[[User:TheAsianIsGamin|TheAsianIsGamin]] ([[User talk:TheAsianIsGamin|talk]]) 07:25, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
:I wouldn't consider that notable--[[User:BigBadBatter|BigBadBatter]] ([[User talk:BigBadBatter|talk]]) 23:33, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
::Well, if they are indeed a trio, isn't it somewhat notable that one of them (The "Order Pokémon", might I add) is weak to the others? --[[User:TheAsianIsGamin|TheAsianIsGamin]] ([[User talk:TheAsianIsGamin|talk]]) 04:36, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
:::Defensive and offensive disadvantages are completely different things. I don't think it's as clearly intentional (and thus notable) as, for example, all of the legendary golems' weakness to Fighting. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 05:24, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
::::I think that it most likely was intentional. Even though the fact that it is weak to Xerneas is probably not as notable, Xerneas and Yveltal are each immune to one of its types, and I think that that should be noted. (The fact that it is weak to Xerneas isn't as notable because it isn't also weak to Yveltal.) This is just my opinion, though! ^^ [[User:EpicDeino|EpicDeino]] ([[User talk:EpicDeino|talk]]) 07:36, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

== Move levels? ==

How do we know all the levels Zygarde knows its moves? You can't catch it below level 70... {{unsigned|DisgruntledGoat}}
:Most of the other legendaries had their move levels added because they're in [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Articuno_(Pok%C3%A9mon)&diff=2034674&oldid=2034646 a Japanese guidebook], and since Zygarde's were added as part of that round of edits by the same users, I think it's reasonable to assume it was in the guidebook, too, even though nobody has specifically singled it out. Thus, I'll be reinstating the levels for now. If someone with the guidebook wants to confirm whether Zygarde is in it, please speak up. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 14:49, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

== Zygarde Reappearances ==

I believe that Zygarde reappears every time you defeat the Elite Four, just like Mewtwo does. I think this should be researched and noted in the Game Locations section. {{unsigned|NerfPlayeR135}}
:It does indeed respawn if fainted after you defeat the Elite Four. I've confirmed it myself just a moment ago. [[User:Shiramu Kuromu|Shiramu Kuromu]] ([[User talk:Shiramu Kuromu|talk]]) 00:48, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

== Zygarde is in a trio with Xerneas and Yveltal ==

Admit it guys, Zygarde is THE most blatantly OBVIOUS Rayquaza Expy to have ever existed. Here's a few things to note here:

*Zygarde has a Green color scheme, while Xerneas and Yveltal have a Blue and Red coloration to match the RGB Color Palette.
*Xerneas and Yveltal are both designed based on the letters X and Y, and the first letters in their names are even those same letters. Zygarde not only is shaped in the manner of a Z due to being a serpent, but also has it's name begin with Z.
*Zygarde's signature ability, Aura Break, ONLY effects Fairy Aura and Dark Aura, which are ONLY known to be available to Xerneas and Yveltal. This isn't too different from Rayquaza in how it cancels out the abilities of the other two members of the trio.
*Xerneas is the Life Pokemon, Yveltal is the Destruction Pokemon, and Zygarde is the Order Pokemon.
*It's PokeDex Entries don't make reference to the other two, but bare in mind, neither did Rayquaza, Giratina, or Kyurem had any references to the others until their versions were released.

With that in mind, I can't see how ANYBODY can believe Zygarde is not related to either of them, as it's so obvious it's painful to say the least. The fact that Zygarde is the ONLY Non-Event Legendary from Kalos other than Xerneas and Yveltal doesn't help matters, and neither Diancie nor the still unconfirmed Volcanion and Hoopa look like they'd be anywhere near related to Xerneas or Yveltal as much as Zygarde does. [[User:Shiramu Kuromu|Shiramu Kuromu]] ([[User talk:Shiramu Kuromu|talk]]) 14:04, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
:Zygarde is not with Xerneas and Yveltal, also, we don't talk about hidden Pokémon (except Diancie is already confirmed) so we have to wait in the future until it's confirmed to be in a trio. --[[User:Cinday123|Cinday123]] ''([[User talk:Cinday123|Talk]])'' 10:19, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
::For all we know, Diancie could be in the "trio" if there is one, and not Zygarde. Zygarde might even be in the trio with other hidden Pokémon. [[User:Yamitora1|Yamitora1]] ([[User talk:Yamitora1|talk]]) 03:04, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
:::For God's sake, Zygarde isn't in anyway related to Diancie, Hoopa, and Volcanion.[[User:Phiraptor28|Phiraptor28]] ([[User talk:Phiraptor28|talk]]) 10:55, 11 December 2014 (UTC)
::::@Cinday - Sometimes we don't need to wait for evidence. Things kind of things work like postulates - need no proving. What we need in these situations are simply common sense! Just an opinion. [[User:Phiraptor28|Phiraptor28]] ([[User talk:Phiraptor28|talk]]) 10:25, 9 March 2015 (UTC)
:::::Now that the various formes of Zygarde have been revealed, and how it was stated to be more powerful than Xerneas and Yveltal, the other two members of it's own trio whom which it's supposed to keep in balance, it's safe to say that I was right this whole time, yes? [[User:Shiramu Kuromu|Shiramu Kuromu]] ([[User talk:Shiramu Kuromu|talk]]) 18:56, 12 September 2015 (UTC)
::::::Yes, you were right the whole time, and everyone else knew it too. It's blatantly obvious when its ability literally only affected Yveltal and Xerneas. Your arguments here can be equated to an English student trying to convince their high school teacher that sentences can start with and or but. Everyone knows it, and you're acting like you're the only who's realized. If anything, you're the one that's behind on how things work. The point is that it hasn't been officially recognized, and isn't critical information regarding Zygarde as a Pokemon, so it is unnecessary and possibly detrimental to this encyclopedia that we add irrelevant information such as this. Or at least it was. We can probably add it soon, but not before the connection is solid and integral to Zygarde as an idea/character/whatever you consider an individual Pokemon to be. There's a time and place for everything, but not now. [[User:ArtistKyurem|ArtistKyurem]] ([[User talk:ArtistKyurem|talk]]) 20:49, 12 September 2015 (UTC)
:::::::^Just wanted to point out he never said, as you said he did, that he "was the only one to realize it". He kept saying, like you, that it is obvious to everyone that they're a trio. {{unsigned|Ratcicle Fan}}
::::::::I think he's talking about when he said ''it's safe to say that I was right this whole time, yes?'', which is really arrogant.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 03:12, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

Hey Guys, I realize the XYZ special with Xernease, Yveltal, and Zyagrd ewwere emtnioened a par tor a trio. So can Zygarde now be added together with the Morality Duo as Moratlity Trio? Source a proof : bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/XYS05 --[[User:Jacob9594|Jacob Kogan]] ([[User talk:Jacob9594|talk]]) 23:20, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

== Source on EV yield ==

Do Zygarde had an EV yield confirmed, or is it unsourced? --[[User:Cinday123|Cinday123]] ''([[User talk:Cinday123|Talk]])'' 05:19, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
:EV yields are listed in the official guidebook. Though even if they weren't, they're something we can easily test and data that we can prove through testing is okay, too. [[User:Crystal Talian|Crystal]] [[User talk:Crystal Talian|Talian]] 05:22, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
::So what is the name of the official guidebook? --[[User:Cinday123|Cinday123]] ''([[User talk:Cinday123|Talk]])'' 05:25, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
:::''Pokémon X & Pokémon Y: The Official Kalos Region Pokédex & Postgame Adventure Guide: The Official Pokémon Strategy Guide.'' [[User:Crystal Talian|Crystal]] [[User talk:Crystal Talian|Talian]] 05:29, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
::::So what about catch rates, base friendship and some other information? So since the EV yields are confirmed for Kalos Pokémon according to the official guidebook, could you revert my edits please? --[[User:Cinday123|Cinday123]] ''([[User talk:Cinday123|Talk]])'' 05:31, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
The book just has the EV yields. The catch rate and base friendship are not included, unconfirmed, and nearly impossible to test. We can't include those on this site yet. [[User:Crystal Talian|Crystal]] [[User talk:Crystal Talian|Talian]] 05:35, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
:Testing catch rate is very "possible", just very involved. Testing base friendship is child's play by comparison. ''That'', you just have to be a little smart about (...possibly a little more than a little). [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 15:45, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

== Quite obvious physical appearance once you're aware. ==

Zygarde's appearance is obviously based on a serpent in the shape of a Z as well as the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N%C4%81ga Naga].
Naga are many-headed serpents which appear in Hindu and Buddhist mythology and look like anything from cobras to dragons.
Once you know the Naga, the similarity is undeniable.
[http://travelphotos.alittleadrift.com/Asia/Cambodia/Siem-Reap/i-HQDpm5D/0/O/Naga%20serpent%20angkor%20wat%20cambodia-2.jpg Naga 1] [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:NagaPhnomPenh.jpg Naga 2] [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Phra_Maha_Chedi_Chai_Mongkol_Naga_emerging_from_mouth_of_Makara.jpg Naga 3]

--[[User:Knockturnal|Knockturnal]] ([[User talk:Knockturnal|talk]]) 16:49, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

== New Form Design Origins ==

I know there is already a ton of discussions about Zygarde's design in this talk section, (this topic can be merged with an already existing one if that's easier) but am I right in assuming that the 3 non-cellular forms are based on the children of Loki (with the giant Angrboða as the mother) in Norse mythology? The 10% form is like the wolf Fenrir, the 'standard' 50% form is based on the world serpent Jörmungandr and the perfect form is akin to the giant Hel.

I have no idea if the DNA cell motif is anything to do with mythology as it is to do with simply being an unknown game mechanic. I don't know anything that could possibly relate to it other then that Loki was a shape shifter (I think he transformed into 5 different forms excluding his true appearance, though this is a stretch)? '''~''' [[User:Evacino|Evacino]] ([[User talk:Evacino|talk]]) 02:05, 13 September 2015 (UTC)
:: Zygarde 10% forme could've also been Garmr, Hel's dog, but Fenrir is more appropriate. And by the way, Zygarde is really apt with the concept of Hel, being the Pokémon of Balance, Hel is usually depicted with half of her body alive and half a corpse, similar to life and death. [[User:Phiraptor28|Phiraptor28]] ([[User talk:Phiraptor28|talk]]) 09:12, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

== Perfect is nw Complete ==

Its not Perfect Forme, but Zygard Complete Forme. [[User:Yamitora1|Yamitora1]] ([[User talk:Yamitora1|talk]]) 15:24, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
:The news has only been out an hour or so, the staff will get around to it when they're online I'm sure. --[[User:S2daam|--samm :D]] 15:27, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

== Flatworm ==

With the introduction of Zygarde Core and Cell, it seems likely to me that both of them, in addition to 50% Forme, are based on planarian flatworms, specifically the well-known (well, well-known for flatworms) triangular-headed kind. [[User:Zakitano|Zakitano]] ([[User talk:Zakitano|talk]]) 21:42, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
:: Yes. The Core and Cell formes may have also drawn inspiration from zygotes, cell formations.[[User:Phiraptor28|Phiraptor28]] ([[User talk:Phiraptor28|talk]]) 09:10, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

== Zygarde 10% Stats ==

The Japanese Pokémon website has a bit more on Zygarde's 10% Forme. Height is 1.2 meters. Weight is 33.5 kilograms. And its type is Dragon/Ground.

Source: http://www.pokemon.co.jp/ex/anime-special/pokemon/ [[User:Goldchaos|Goldchaos]] ([[User talk:Goldchaos|talk]]) 06:03, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Zygarde 10% is in Pokémon Picross (via the leaked passwords). The game has the height/weight of the Pokémon in the game, but I'm not even close to were its stage is, so someone who has caught it check it out to put on the site please.[[User:TrainerX493|TrainerX493]] ([[User talk:TrainerX493|talk]]) 21:40, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
:Oh wait, it's already there. Nevermind. [[User:TrainerX493|TrainerX493]] ([[User talk:TrainerX493|talk]]) 03:16, 10 December 2015 (UTC)

== Core and Cell Zygarde ==

Are we sure that the core and cell versions are actual forms? Judging from the descriptions, they just sound like part of Zygarde's anatomy. Perhaps Ash and friends will be taken a trip inside the body of Zygarde? If so, I don't think we should count cell and core Zygarde as forms. [[User:Carcharodon|Carcharodon]] ([[User talk:Carcharodon|talk]]) 18:07, 6 October 2015 (UTC)
:They've appeared separately from Zygarde in the anime, so I doubt they won't appear separately in the games as well, even if they're not battle capable. Even if that were to occur, they should still be considered a form. {{unsigned|ArtistKyurem}}

== Potential Mortality Trio Learnset Comparison ==

In anticipation for Zygarde's addition to the Mortality Duo, I've added onto the existing learnset comparison from the [[Legendary Duo]] page.

{| class="roundy" style="text-align:center; margin:auto; background: #cb0b4f; border: 3px solid #cf517e"
|-
! style="background:#{{kalos color dark}}; {{roundytl|5px}}" | {{color2|{{kalos color light}}|Level|Lv.}}
| style="background:#{{Fairy color light}}" | [[File:716Xerneas.png|96px]] {{pcolor|Xerneas|{{Fairy color dark}}}} {{typecolor|Fairy}}
| style="background:#{{dark color light}}; {{roundytr|5px}}" | [[File:717Yveltal.png|96px]] {{pcolor|Yveltal|{{dark color dark}}}} {{typecolor|Dark}}{{typecolor|Flying}}
| style="background:#{{dragon color light}}; {{roundytr|5px}}" |[[File:718Zygarde.png|96px]] {{pcolor|Zygarde|{{Dragon color dark}}}} {{typecolor|Dragon}}{{typecolor|Ground}}
|-
| rowspan="4" style="text-align:right; background:#{{kalos color dark}}" | {{color|cf517e|Start}}
| style="background:#{{Psychic color light}}" | ''{{mcolor|Heal Pulse|{{Psychic color dark}}}}''
| style="background:#{{Flying color light}}" | '''{{mcolor|Hurricane|{{Flying color dark}}}}'''
| style="background:#{{Normal color light}}" | ''{{mcolor|Glare|{{Normal color dark}}}}''
|-
| style="background:#{{Grass color light}}" | ''{{mcolor|Aromatherapy|{{Grass color dark}}}}''
| style="background:#{{Normal color light}}" | {{mcolor|Razor Wind|{{Normal color dark}}}}
| style="background:#{{Ground color light}}" | '''{{mcolor|Bulldoze|{{Ground color dark}}}}'''
|-
| style="background:#{{Grass color light}}" | ''{{mcolor|Ingrain|{{Grass color dark}}}}''
| style="background:#{{Dark color light}}" | ''{{mcolor|Taunt|{{Dark color dark}}}}''
| style="background:#{{Dragon color light}}" | '''{{mcolor|Dragon Breath|{{Dragon color dark}}}}'''
|-
| style="background:#{{Normal color light}}" | {{mcolor|Take Down|{{Normal color dark}}}}
| style="background:#{{Flying color light}}" | ''{{mcolor|Roost|{{Flying color dark}}}}''
| style="background:#{{Dark color light}}" | {{mcolor|Bite|{{Dark color dark}}}}
|-
| style="text-align:right; background:#{{kalos color dark}}" | {{color|cf517e|5}}
| style="background:#{{Psychic color light}}" | ''{{mcolor|Light Screen|{{Psychic color dark}}}}''
| style="background:#{{Normal color light}}" | ''{{mcolor|Double Team|{{Normal color dark}}}}''
| style="background:#{{Normal color light}}" | ''{{mcolor|Safeguard|{{Normal color dark}}}}''
|-
| style="text-align:right; background:#{{kalos color dark}}" | {{color|cf517e|10}}
| style="background:#{{Ice color light}}" | {{mcolor|Aurora Beam|{{Ice color dark}}}}
| style="background:#{{Flying color light}}" | '''{{mcolor|Air Slash|{{Flying color dark}}}}'''
| style="background:#{{Ground color light}}" | '''{{mcolor|Dig|{{Ground color dark}}}}'''
|-
| style="text-align:right; background:#{{kalos color dark}}" | {{color|cf517e|18}}
| style="background:#{{Psychic color light}}" | ''{{mcolor|Gravity|{{Psychic color dark}}}}''
| style="background:#{{Dark color light}}" | '''{{mcolor|Snarl|{{Dark color dark}}}}'''
| style="background:#{{Normal color light}}" | {{mcolor|Bind|{{Normal color dark}}}}
|-
| style="text-align:right; background:#{{kalos color dark}}" | {{color|cf517e|26}}
| style="background:#{{Fairy color light}}" | ''{{mcolor|Geomancy|{{Fairy color dark}}}}''
| style="background:#{{Flying color light}}" | '''{{mcolor|Oblivion Wing|{{Flying color dark}}}}'''
| style="background:#{{Ground color light}}" | '''{{mcolor|Land's Wrath|{{Ground color dark}}}}'''
|-
| style="text-align:right; background:#{{kalos color dark}}" | {{color|cf517e|35}}
| style="background:#{{Fairy color light}}" | '''{{mcolor|Moonblast|{{Fairy color dark}}}}'''
| style="background:#{{Normal color light}}" | ''{{mcolor|Disable|{{Normal color dark}}}}''
| style="background:#{{Rock color light}}" | ''{{mcolor|Sandstorm|{{Rock color dark}}}}''
|-
| style="text-align:right; background:#{{kalos color dark}}" | {{color|cf517e|44}}
| style="background:#{{bug color light}}" | {{mcolor|Megahorn|{{bug color dark}}}}
| style="background:#{{dark color light}}" | '''{{mcolor|Dark Pulse|{{dark color dark}}}}'''
| style="background:#{{Ice color light}}" | ''{{mcolor|Haze|{{Ice color dark}}}}''
|-
| style="text-align:right; background:#{{kalos color dark}}" | {{color|cf517e|51}}
| style="background:#{{dark color light}}" | {{mcolor|Night Slash|{{dark color dark}}}}
| style="background:#{{dark color light}}" | '''{{mcolor|Foul Play|{{dark color dark}}}}'''
| style="background:#{{dark color light}}" | {{mcolor|Crunch|{{dark color dark}}}}
|-
| style="text-align:right; background:#{{kalos color dark}}" | {{color|cf517e|55}}
| style="background:#{{Grass color light}}" | {{mcolor|Horn Leech|{{Grass color dark}}}}
| style="background:#{{ghost color light}}" | {{mcolor|Phantom Force|{{ghost color dark}}}}
| style="background:#{{Ground color light}}" | '''{{mcolor|Earthquake|{{Ground color dark}}}}'''
|-
| style="text-align:right; background:#{{kalos color dark}}" | {{color|cf517e|59}}
| style="background:#{{Normal color light}}" | ''{{mcolor|Psych Up|{{Normal color dark}}}}''
| style="background:#{{Psychic color light}}" | {{mcolor|Psychic|{{Psychic color dark}}}}
| style="background:#{{Normal color light}}" | ''{{mcolor|Camouflage|{{Normal color dark}}}}''
|-
| style="text-align:right; background:#{{kalos color dark}}" | {{color|cf517e|63}}
| style="background:#{{Fairy color light}}" | ''{{mcolor|Misty Terrain|{{Fairy color dark}}}}''
| style="background:#{{Dragon color light}}" | {{mcolor|Dragon Rush|{{Dragon color dark}}}}
| style="background:#{{Dragon color light}}" | '''{{mcolor|Dragon Pulse|{{Dragon color dark}}}}'''
|-
| style="text-align:right; background:#{{kalos color dark}}" | {{color|cf517e|72}}
| style="background:#{{normal color light}}" | ''{{mcolor|Nature Power|{{Normal color dark}}}}''
| style="background:#{{Fighting color light}}" | {{mcolor|Focus Blast|{{Fighting color dark}}}}
| style="background:#{{Dragon color light}}" | ''{{mcolor|Dragon Dance|{{Dragon color dark}}}}''
|-
| style="text-align:right; background:#{{kalos color dark}}" | {{color|cf517e|80}}
| style="background:#{{Fighting color light}}" | {{mcolor|Close Combat|{{Fighting color dark}}}}
| style="background:#{{dark color light}}" | '''{{mcolor|Sucker Punch|{{dark color dark}}}}'''
| style="background:#{{Poison color light}}" | ''{{mcolor|Coil|{{Poison color dark}}}}''
|-
| style="text-align:right; background:#{{kalos color dark}}" | {{color|cf517e|88}}
| style="background:#{{normal color light}}" | {{mcolor|Giga Impact|{{Normal color dark}}}}
| style="background:#{{normal color light}}" | {{mcolor|Hyper Beam|{{normal color dark}}}}
| style="background:#{{normal color light}}" | {{mcolor|Extreme Speed|{{Normal color dark}}}}
|-
| style="text-align:right; background:#{{kalos color dark}}" | {{color|cf517e|93}}
| style="background:#{{dragon color light}}" | {{mcolor|Outrage|{{dragon color dark}}}}
| style="background:#{{flying color light}}" | '''{{mcolor|Sky Attack|{{flying color dark}}}}'''
| style="background:#{{dragon color light}}" | '''{{mcolor|Outrage|{{dragon color dark}}}}'''
|-
| colspan="4" style="background:#{{kalos color dark}}; color: #{{kalos color light}}; {{roundybottom|5px}}"| Moves in '''bold''' get {{color2|cf517e|Same-type attack bonus|STAB}}. Moves in ''italics'' do no damage.
|}{{-}}

This is only meant to be used once we receive official word of the "Mortality Trio" (or whatever it's officially called) existing. Once it is confirmed, this can be used on the trio's page.
--[[User:Pacack|Pacack]] ([[User talk:Pacack|talk]]) 19:04, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

== Dugesia? ==

I guess it's obvious, but I believe Zygarde's Cell Form is based on the Dugesia (a name I didn't know until today). Shouldn't that be added to the trivia?
Also, I think it could be added to the trivia that Zygarde's 10% Form resembles a dobberman. [[User:Ratcicle Fan|Ratcicle Fan]] ([[User talk:Ratcicle Fan|talk]]) 20:47, 3 November 2015 (UTC)

== Mistake with a picture caption ==

The "In the anime" section, the picture with the caption that says "Zygarde Cell in the anime" should be corrected to "Zygarde Core in the anime".

Also, someone should mention that Zygarde 10% made it's debut in XY094 and get a picture of it as well. [[User:Dialgafan1|Dialgafan1]] ([[User talk:Dialgafan1|talk]]) 06:40, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
:Also noticed this error earlier as well. I thought I was the only one who knew about this. The error was a bit diffcult to spot, I'd have to admit. [[User:KoiFish|KoiFish]] ([[User talk:KoiFish|talk]]) 06:02, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

== Zygarde 10% form origin ==

I would like to add that Zygarde 10% form is based on a Doberman Pinscher on a leash. However, the page is locked. Could someone please unlock the page and add that info in (if this is necessary/accurate info)?[[User:Leafeon6954|Leafeon6954]] ([[User talk:Leafeon6954|talk]]) 23:08, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

== Axis Trivia ==

I was wondering if this is a viable piece of trivia:
Xerxes is a land creature and the X coordinate is the horizontal one. Yveltal can fly and the Y axis is the vertical coordinate. Zygarde can burrow and the Z coordinate represents depth. --[[User:AbsolX|AbsolX]] ([[User talk:AbsolX|talk]]) 19:51, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
:The analogy you're trying to make is flawed a couple ways. Flying and burrowing are on the same axis, not different ones; one's up the axis, the other is down it. And land is more of a plane than a single axis/dimension, really. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 20:12, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

== Flag of Kalos? ==

In the origin section, there was reference to a flag of Kalos. I searched for it, and only a fanmade one seems to exist. As such, I changed the sentence to refer to the flag of France instead.

If I am mistaken, please show me evidence of the flag of Kalos and revert the edit. [[User:Pacack|ᗧ•••ᗣ Pacack]] 21:27, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

== Biology Section ==

I have made a sizeable contribution to the biology section of this page. It is lengthy, but details the appearance of all Zygarde's formes. If anyone sees an issue with this edit, grammatical or otherwise, please correct it. If you can condense the information without lessening the content of the article, please also do so.

Thanks! [[User:Pacack|ᗧ•••ᗣ Pacack]] 00:45, 25 November 2015 (UTC)

== Zygarde Complete Forme's head ==

Okay not 100% sure if this is is worth putting here but I figured better safe than sorry. Anyway the article says the part of Complete Formes's body that's on top of the round part is a protrusion but I think it's actually the head. The reason is because all of the puzzles in Pokémon Picross are headshots and the on for Zygarde Complete Forme doesn't show the round portion of it's body it shows the part on top. I think that really points towards it being the head. {{unsigned|Flain}}
:You're right, and I'd go as far to say that the round part is '''definitely''' its chest and that the "protrusion" is '''definitely''' its head and that someone would have to be psychotic to think of it any other way. The "protrusion" is clearly a head. The arms come off of the round thing, it is clearly a chest. The protrusion has glowing white eyes, while the chest has green eye-like markings. To argue this would be like arguing that Masquerein's wings are actually its eyes. Saying that, I'm not willing to be the one to change it because my edits tend to get reverted in seconds. [[User:Me, Hurray!|Me, Hurray!]] ([[User talk:Me, Hurray!|talk]]) 00:20, 12 January 2016 (UTC)
::While writing the biology section, I was unsure whether to classify the crown or the rounded section as the head because of this image:

::http://anime-attack.com/cdn/assets/img/animes/image/pokemon-xy-z.jpg

::In this, the "chest" opens and reveals that its jagged center is akin to a mouth. Because of this, and because crowns traditionally rest upon heads, I opted for more ambiguous wording. However, because I seem to be outnumbered three to one (another person edited the page already), I will change the wording to note this ability while maintaining the position that the protrusion is the head. [[User:Pacack| '''Pa'''ᗧ•••ᗣ'''ck''' ]] 02:37, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

== Using Deity/Deities derived terms when speaking generically ==

What is wrong with using deity/deities or derived terms when speaking generically (no gender connotations that is)?

[[User:Jdogno4|Jdogno4]] ([[User talk:Jdogno4|talk]]) 07:06, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

:Because the the plural "gods" can also be gender-neutral.[[User:Animaltamer7|Animaltamer7]]11:16, 25 January 2016 (UTC)
::"The gods" is a collective term which refers to both gods and goddesses. It is a term used often, and can be seen in action here [https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Norse_gods_and_goddesses#Major_gods], here [https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_Olympians], and here [https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_gods_and_goddesses].
::The majority of the text from the origin section of the article is paraphrased from the wikipedia articles. You will note that wikipedia uses the term "the gods" in the Fenrir article as well [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fenrir]. [[User:Pacack| '''Pa'''ᗧ•••ᗣ'''ck''' ]] 15:26, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

"Because the plural "gods" can also be gender-neutral.": Deities is more technically correct in this instance.

"'The gods' is a collective term which refers to both gods and goddesses.": Once again deities is more technically correct in this instance.

Well Wikipedia is not being technically correct in all instances relating to what is a deity, what is a god and what is a goddess.

[[User:Jdogno4|Jdogno4]] ([[User talk:Jdogno4|talk]]) 23:40, 8 February 2016 (UTC)
:For all practical and/or common purposes, anywhere deity can be used, so can god, without changing ''anything''. (The only exception is something like Wikipedia's {{wp|God}} article, where simply using "god" can get confusing and "deity" can provide a ''useful'' distinction.)
:Your apparent belief that "god" always carries a gender connotation is, very simply: wrong. In my view, this is a pretty fundamental concept—which also makes it perversely difficult to "explain". So instead, I'm just going to let you figure out a way to accept it, if you can. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 00:49, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

::"Your apparent belief that "god" always carries a gender connotation is, very simply: wrong.": How so?
::[[User:Jdogno4|Jdogno4]] ([[User talk:Jdogno4|talk]]) 06:14, 9 February 2016 (UTC)
:::How not?
:::It comes down to this: you tried to change this line before: ''"In Norse mythology, Fenrir is a monstrous wolf which was foretold to bring the gods great trouble and harm."''
:::The question is: does "gods" have a gender connotation there?
:::And the (right) answer is simply: No.
:::If you want to try to explain why ''you're'' right or why ''I'm'' wrong, feel free. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 06:59, 9 February 2016 (UTC)
::::"''"In Norse mythology, Fenrir is a monstrous wolf which was foretold to bring the gods great trouble and harm."''": Where are you quoting this phrase from?
::::[[User:Jdogno4|Jdogno4]] ([[User talk:Jdogno4|talk]]) 07:17, 9 February 2016 (UTC)
:::::This page, where you [[Special:Diff/2377543|tried]] to change it. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 07:53, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

::::::As I have stated before in terms of technical correctness Deity(singular)/Deities(plural) is more accurate.
::::::[[User:Jdogno4|Jdogno4]] ([[User talk:Jdogno4|talk]]) 08:52, 9 February 2016 (UTC)
:::::::You did mention something like that above, but frankly, you have completely failed to explain it in any way, whether what makes it more accurate or what about god is inaccurate. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 08:59, 9 February 2016 (UTC)
::::::::"You did mention something like that above, but frankly, you have completely failed to explain it in any way, whether what makes it more accurate or what about god is inaccurate.": I have. Deity=Gender Neutral. God=Masculine. Goddess=Feminine. Does that make sense?
::::::::[[User:Jdogno4|Jdogno4]] ([[User talk:Jdogno4|talk]]) 09:09, 9 February 2016 (UTC)
:::::::::While that is an explanation, it is also wrong. "God" is not always masculine. As I said above: that is, very simply: WRONG.
:::::::::In the line from above that you previously tried to change, ''"In Norse mythology, Fenrir is a monstrous wolf which was foretold to bring the gods great trouble and harm."'', "gods" is not masculine, it is gender-neutral, just like "deities" would be. "Deities" is not better, techically or otherwise. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 09:28, 9 February 2016 (UTC)
::::::::::"While that is an explanation, it is also wrong.": How so?
::::::::::"'God' is not always masculine.": Explain.
::::::::::"In the line from above that you previously tried to change, ''"In Norse mythology, Fenrir is a monstrous wolf which was foretold to bring the gods great trouble and harm."'', "gods" is not masculine, it is gender-neutral, just like "deities" would be.": I get that but I also think that it is not the most precise or accurate use of the term.
::::::::::"'Deities' is not better, technically or otherwise.": How so?
::::::::::[[User:Jdogno4|Jdogno4]] ([[User talk:Jdogno4|talk]]) 10:04, 9 February 2016 (UTC)
:::::::::::Jdogno4, I am ''not'' a mind reader. You cannot just ask things like "How so?" and "Explain.". I cannot guess what it is you don't understand.
:::::::::::Now... If you get that "gods" in that context was gender-neutral, then it's pretty clear you're just clinging hard to some contradictory notions. You plainly think deities is better because it's always gender-neutral, but that is NOT good logic. If "gods" is already gender-neutral, it ''does not'' need to be changed, it's already perfectly understandable. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 10:27, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

"Jdogno4, I am ''not'' a mind reader. You cannot just ask things like 'How so?' and 'Explain.'. I cannot guess what it is you don't understand.": I am asking you to explain your arguments if you are capable of doing so.

"Now... If you get that "gods" in that context was gender-neutral, then it's pretty clear you're just clinging hard to some contradictory notions.": I get that it was meant to be used in a gender-neutral context but I do not believe it was correctly used. What do you mean by contradictory notions? "You plainly think deities is better because it's always gender-neutral, but that is NOT good logic.": How is that not good logic? "If 'gods' is already gender-neutral, it ''does not'' need to be changed, it's already perfectly understandable.": It does for the fact that despite being used in a gender neutral fashion it is technically male gendered. Given the fact that it is used to mean both male deities (technically correct) and all deities at the same time (technically incorrect) it is not perfectly understandable.

[[User:Jdogno4|Jdogno4]] ([[User talk:Jdogno4|talk]]) 21:46, 9 February 2016 (UTC)
:Let me just check one thing, Jdogno4.
:Do you think it is ever correct to use "gods" to mean all deities (gender neutrally)? [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 22:22, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

::"Do you think it is ever correct to use "gods" to mean all deities (gender neutrally)?": No I do not.
::[[User:Jdogno4|Jdogno4]] ([[User talk:Jdogno4|talk]]) 22:44, 9 February 2016 (UTC)
:::You are wrong.
:::There should be plenty of examples all around in the (English-speaking) world to show this. For starters, I might recommend checking various dictionaries (yes, more than one). You're welcome to look about for some of that and consider it by yourself. I leave you to that. It's not at all worth my time to try to change your mind on something so fundamental. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 22:53, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

"You are wrong.": How so?

"There should be plenty of examples all around in the (English-speaking) world to show this.": For instance?

[[User:Jdogno4|Jdogno4]] ([[User talk:Jdogno4|talk]]) 23:29, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

Since you have made at least 20 edits since 23:29, 9 February 2016 (UTC), but none here I am assuming you have lost interest in backing up your argument.

[[User:Jdogno4|Jdogno4]] ([[User talk:Jdogno4|talk]]) 05:29, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
:Just because I won't engage with you further does not mean you are correct. If it did, that would mean many, many arguments would be doomed to continue FOREVER.
:You are wrong.
:Many people have told you this.
:If you cannot accept it or understand it, that is, frankly, your problem at this point.
:Let me emphasize: no matter what, (please) DO NOT try to change "god" to "deity" anywhere. Thank you. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 05:39, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

== Red Zygarde Core's Pokédex entries ==

I'm trying to post the Pokédex entries for [[Puni-chan]], but I can't figure out how to change it so it says '''Red Zygarde Core''' instead of '''Zygarde'''. Here's what I have so far.

{{Animedexheader|Kalos}}
{{Animedexbody|XY094|Zygarde|Ash's Pokédex|{{tt|No data.|translation from Japanese sub}}}}
{{Animedexbody|XY094|Zygarde|Serena's Pokédex|{{tt|No data.|translation from Japanese sub}}}}
{{Animedexfooter/Pokémon|''XY''|Kalos}}

If someone can fix this, I'd really appreciate it. --[[User:PKMNAdventurer|PKMNAdventurer]] ([[User talk:PKMNAdventurer|talk]]) 23:13, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

== Cell Form and Core form height. ==

While watching Pokemon XY and Z on kissanime, I noticed that zygarde's cell and core form's height isn't mentioned.
But examining Zygarde or Squishy, I realized that Zygarde's core form is as tall as a Dedenne. That would be 0'08. Now its height hasn't been officially reviewed, but if the anime shows that Zygarde and Dedenne are the same height, then Zygarde core is 0'08".
This is more of speculation, but it looks like Zygarde's cells would be as tall as a Pikachu 1'08
[[User:Theexploringgamer|Theexploringgamer]] ([[User talk:Theexploringgamer|talk]]) 20:21, 19 February 2016 (UTC)
:Pokemon heights vary all the time in the anime. For example, Ash's Charizard is huge compared to its in-game Pokédex entry height, and Ash's is small for a Charizard in the anime. Basically, you can't use anime height to determine game height. ☆[[User:Solar Dragon|The]] [[User talk:Solar Dragon|Solar]] [[Special:Contributions/Solar Dragon|Dragon]]☆ 20:24, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

::That is true,but I think that'll itll help add them in the [[List of Pokémon by height]] and until its official I think we could propose an estimated height.
::Also, may we add artwork of Blue core Zygarde
::[[User:Theexploringgamer|Theexploringgamer]] ([[User talk:Theexploringgamer|talk]]) 21:26, 19 February 2016 (UTC)
:::Either heights (or weight or any other such stats) are to be taken from official sources, or we will not list ''any'' height. We do not "estimate"—do not ''make up''—these things. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 23:29, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

== No Pokémon Z version? ==

With the recent announcement of Sun and Moon, does that mean Zygarde's alternate forms are exclusive to the Pokémon animé? If so, we should probably take out any mention of those forms in the main article.--[[User:Pokencyclopedia|Pokencyclopedia]] ([[User talk:Pokencyclopedia|talk]]) 13:04, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

:Just because new forms debut in the anime does not mean they'll never be in a game, who knows they could be in Sun and Moon when more info comes.[[User:Animaltamer7|Animaltamer7]]13:06, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

== should it be mentioned that Zygarde 10% is Dragon type in Shuffle ==

Zygarde 10% was recently added to Pokemon Shuffle with the Dragon typing. should it be mention on the article in some way? [[User:Yamitora1|Yamitora1]] ([[User talk:Yamitora1|talk]]) 10:55, 30 March 2016 (UTC)
:never mind, i wasn't aware it was confirmed the new forms keep its dragon/ground typing[[User:Yamitora1|Yamitora1]] ([[User talk:Yamitora1|talk]]) 11:04, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

== Loki and Tsuchinoko? ==

I just edited the origin section and I couldn't find much evidence to support the idea that Zygarde Complete is based off of Loki; everything points to Hel. As such I removed the references to Loki as a possible reference. However, I would more than happily add it back in if anyone objects - just give me a couple places to source which link Zygarde to Loki in some sort of concrete way. [[User:Pacack| '''Pa'''ᗧ•••ᗣ'''ck''' ]] 02:43, 16 April 2016 (UTC)
:Likewise, I found little to no link between Zygarde Cell/Core and the Tsuchinoko, so I removed reference to it in the origin section. If anyone seriously disagrees, please explain why and give some sort of information which links the Tsuchinoko to Zygarde more concretely. :) [[User:Pacack| '''Pa'''ᗧ•••ᗣ'''ck''' ]] 03:41, 16 April 2016 (UTC)

:::Well I'd like to expand on the Loki part, as Zygarde in total is able to change between multiple forms similiarly Loki is commonly known to have shapeshifted to do his trickery and the like. The part with Tsuchinoko is the core and cell's body structure being similar to it, being a larger middle portion with a thinner head and tail.[[User:Animaltamer7|Animaltamer7]]09:07, 16 April 2016 (UTC)

::::I think it might be based on Beast Boy from Teen Titans. Like Beast Boy, it changes shape, and is green in all of its formes. Beast Boy's body-shape in Teen Titans Go has a larger head with a smaller body, like 10% and Core formes. Furthermore, Beast Boy is an environmentalist, much like how Zygarde protects the balance of the ecosystem. Finally, both Beast Boy and Zygarde have a seldom seen "final form", with Beast Boy having a mutant werewolf form that only appeared twice, and Zygarde having 100% forme that has thusfar only appeared in dreams. [[User:Me, Hurray!|Me, Hurray!]] ([[User talk:Me, Hurray!|talk]]) 20:34, 27 April 2016 (UTC)
:::::If you are trying to be sarcastic, I'm not sure it is helping. :/ ----[[User:NateVirus|NateVirus]]''([[User talk:NateVirus|Talk]]''|''[[Special:Contributions/NateVirus|Contributions]]'') 20:51, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

== Sköll and Hati ==

Should it be noted that 10% might be a general be based on Sköll and/or Hati, most particularly Sköll who chases the sun. The cores uses photosynthesis to get energy, so there is some correlation.[[User:Yamitora1|Yamitora1]] ([[User talk:Yamitora1|talk]]) 16:51, 16 April 2016 (UTC)

== Excessive origin section ==

Everything I have to say has been said in edit summaries, so I'll just copy-paste them here for the record:
* 09:13, May 4, 2016‎ Gymnotide (Talk | contribs)‎ . . (23,866 bytes) (-634)‎ . . (→‎Origin: Some very unnecessary details that were reaching extremely hard by someone who just wanted to show off their mythology knowledge. Trimmed it down a little bit. Also, the pattern does not resemble DNA sugars at all.)
* 10:03, May 4, 2016‎ Animaltamer7 (Talk | contribs)‎ . . (24,500 bytes) (+634)‎ . . (Undo revision 2437284 by Gymnotide (talk) the info would help for those who don't even know about those certain myths)
* 13:55, May 4, 2016‎ Pumpkinking0192 (Talk | contribs)‎ . . (23,922 bytes) (-578)‎ . . (→‎Origin: No, this is definitely way overwritten, and honestly the DNA thing is a bit ridiculous. Origin sections are (or should be) for explaining the ACTUAL likely origin of a Pokemon, not for adding in every tenuously-related detail possible.)
* 20:56, May 4, 2016‎ Animaltamer7 (Talk | contribs)‎ . . (24,500 bytes) (+578)‎ . . (Undo revision 2437344 by Pumpkinking0192 (talk) Discuss on the talkpage first so this doesn't become an edit war)
To boil it down: The DNA thing is completely out of nowhere and should be removed outright, and everything else is written in far too excessive detail. We should be breaking down the things that are most relevant to Zygarde and most likely to be what the developers had in mind, not every little tidbit somebody can claim is a minor connection.

I also find it ''extremely'' funny that Animaltamer7 is telling others to go to the talk page to avoid an edit war when ''they'' are the one repeatedly reverting in the first place. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 03:15, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
:I saw the edits in recent changes, and looking at the added content, some of those additions are a bit strange, for instance:
<pre>
The patterns spread across Zygarde 50% Forme's body are similar to ribose and deoxyribose molecules.
</pre>
:The artwork for the 50% forme only shows hexagons. To state they are similar to those molecules is inaccurate and possibly over-speculation, because the ''molecule'' itself is 3-dimensional (the {{wp|Haworth projection}} is a simplified 2D representation), and most (if not all) sugar molecules represented in the Haworth projection will have the hexagon present. [[User:Chenzw|Chenzw]] ([[User talk:Chenzw|talk]]) 03:46, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

::That's because if you think about it that Zygarde represents balance between Xerneas (life) and Yveltal (death). The ribose and deoxyribose are what makes up anything that is alive or dead. Also Pumpkinking I was just making sure that once the discussion is settled the origin section can be change to how we agree on this.[[User:Animaltamer7|Animaltamer7]]04:10, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
:::I am sorry, but I think the connection is still not immediately clear. Why can't the hexagon(s) represent carbon (cyclohexane), which is also something that makes up everything alive or dead? Also, I think the hexagons' link to ribose and deoxyribose are sufficiently strong only if it's supported by the fact that the tail indeed represents base pair codons. I question the relevance of the tail to base pair codons because there are 5 of them, while DNA has only 4 known nucleotides. Yes, I concede that it is possible for the 5th tail "protrusion" to represent uracil used in RNA, but that seems to be pushing it too far. As of now, three editors (including myself) take issue with the content in one way or another.
:::For future reference:
:::*The part about DNA was added in Oct 2013: [[Special:Diff/1997681]]
:::*Other content pertaining to possible mythological origins/inspirations added in Nov 2015: [[Special:Diff/2356983]]. [[User:Chenzw|Chenzw]] ([[User talk:Chenzw|talk]]) 06:59, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
::::I would just like to point out that the DNA portion is removed now. I wanted to point this out because it honestly sounds like this discussion is about trying to remove it. As it is, I think the origin portion of this page is fine. [[User:Crystal Talian|Crystal]] [[User talk:Crystal Talian|Talian]] 08:03, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

::::Alright I'll concede with the DNA portion, but for these two statements:
::::"The red and blue markings on either side of Zygarde Complete Forme may represent Yveltal and Xerneas, as this Forme exceeds both of their powers."
::::The markings it is talking about are from the protrusions of the side of Complete Forme's arms no the chest pattern, with those being the markings that represent the two.
::::"...and its razor sharp teeth may be an allusion to Fenrir biting off the right hand of Týr"
::::10% Forme's sharp teeth has been mentioned quite a bit so it would be too far to include this.
::::Also the bit of the dragon/serpent that naws on the roots of Yggdrasill, should stay as Xerneas and Yveltal have a resemblance to two other creatures from the tree, which is another hint at them possibly being a trio (as quite alot of fans assume they are, myself included).[[User:Animaltamer7|Animaltamer7]]08:25, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
:::::The point brought up by "The red and blue markings on either side of Zygarde Complete Forme may represent Yveltal and Xerneas, as this Forme exceeds both of their powers." has already been mentioned in the article:
:::::*"Zygarde Complete Forme is said to exceed both Xerneas and Yveltal in power..."
:::::*"The colors on Complete Forme's chest match the colors of the real-world flag of France... main colors of Xerneas and Yveltal"
:::::...unless the intention is to place emphasis on "represent", which I fear will lend undue weight to the theory that Zygarde is part of the hypothesised Mortality Trio. [[User:Chenzw|Chenzw]] ([[User talk:Chenzw|talk]]) 04:06, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
::::::Alright point taken, unless the hypothesised trio is confirmed that statement won't be added. Since you didn't say anything about the razor sharp teeth info, can that be added back?[[User:Animaltamer7|Animaltamer7]]04:28, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
:::::::Mythology is not my strong suit, so I don't really have an opinion on this. However, based on the edit history, the consensus seems to be that there is an issue with going into too much detail. It might be better to wait and see if the reverting editors, or any passing staff member, have any opinion on this matter. [[User:Chenzw|Chenzw]] ([[User talk:Chenzw|talk]]) 04:41, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
(resent indent) Agreed, besides I'm doing a Nuzlocke and there is going to be heavy mythological references relating to the Legends such as Zygarde.[[User:Animaltamer7|Animaltamer7]]06:29, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
:I think the section is fine as it is for now. I don't think we need to call anymore attention to the "razor sharp teeth". It's could just have sharp teeth because it's a dog, and that's all. People are welcome to click the wikilinks and find out the backstory that way. I don't think we need to make any more adjustments unless someone has ideas that have not already been discussed. [[User:Crystal Talian|Crystal]] [[User talk:Crystal Talian|Talian]] 12:48, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

== Complete Zygarde's HP ==

From calculations using the HP in the most recent trailers, it can be deduced that Complete Zygarde's base HP is between 180 and 227. While its exact HP remains unconfirmed and thus shouldn't be added to the article, perhaps it's worth noting that Complete Zygarde is already guaranteed to have the highest stat from all Dragon and Ground types.
[[User:Jugol|Jugol]] ([[User talk:Jugol|talk]]) 14:19, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
:No. 1) It can change. 2) It won't kill anyone to wait. 3) It could also turn out that something ''else'' will be introduced that beats it out anyway. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 14:28, 11 June 2016 (UTC)

== "Introduced in Sun and Moon" ==

"Zygarde Cell, Zygarde Core, Zygarde 10% Forme, and Zygarde Complete Forme were announced in the October 2015 issue of CoroCoro magazine, and will be introduced in Pokémon Sun and Moon." - This sentence makes it sound like Zygarde Cell and Core will be in Sun and Moon, but only the latter 2 are confirmed.--[[User:Yami Wheeler|Yami Wheeler]] ([[User talk:Yami Wheeler|talk]]) 17:59, 12 June 2016 (UTC)
:I've corrected the sentence. Thanks. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 18:05, 12 June 2016 (UTC)

== Zygarde Sun & Moon Possible Trivia ==

I feel the trivia or origin section of this page should include the possibility that Zygarde's perfect forme is related to not only Yveltal and Xerneas, but also to Solgaleo and Lunala. This theory being based on the fact that in the "mouth" of the perfect forme's torso, we can see that there are 5 different colored hexagons in order, purple-blue-white-orange-red, which could very well reference that there are 5 cores with at least 4 of them referencing the color of Xerneas (blue), Yveltal (red), Solgaleo (orange), and Lunala (purple). What do you think?
:Bulbapedia is not the place for theories. It's far too early to say whether Zygarde's lore will be tied in with anything else in Sun/Moon. Unless it ends up ''explicitly'' related to Solgaleo/Lunala, I don't think anything like that will ever belong anywhere in the mainspace. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 15:25, 14 June 2016 (UTC)

== Abilities ==

Right now, they're displayed as Forme-exclusive. However, now that we know that isn't the case, since 50% Forme also has it, we don't know how Zygarde gets the Ability at all, only that it's wrong to show it as Forme-based. Could I suggest adding an "Unknown" section - just like Hidden Abilities are separated, just with the word Unknown rather than Hidden - for Swarm Change and removing the Forme headings from Abilities altogether? Just ''for now,'' at least, until we know something. It seems wrong to have them shown as Forme-based when the one thing we ''do'' know right now is that they aren't, so if an Unknown section is ''possible to add,'' I personally think that would be the best way of handling it.
If not, could ''something'' be done to indicate that 50% Forme also has it, at least? I see in the page history that it can't simply be added as an alternate Ability (like Shiftry's Chlorophyll or Early Bird), and that's completely understandable since we don't know that anyway, but right now, the page is outdated, so if we could at least mention it somewhere, I think that would help a lot. [[User:EpicDeino|EpicDeino]] ([[User talk:EpicDeino|talk]]) 06:32, 1 July 2016 (UTC)
:Scratch that! The official site now lists it as an alternate Ability so I assume it's safe to include now. [[User:EpicDeino|EpicDeino]] ([[User talk:EpicDeino|talk]]) 13:15, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

== Image and Ability Order ==
Is there a specific reason for the order of the images and the abilities in the main infobox on this page? I can understand having Zygarde 50% forme at the top (it being the first forme to debut in the games), but underneath that, the Complete Forme is on the left and the 10% forme is on the right. It would seem to me that on an English-speaking site that is read left to right, it'd make more sense the other way around (with the lower-numbered "base" forme on the left, and the higher-numbered forme that becomes available under specific conditions on the right. The image order is repeated in the ability section, and again I think it'd make more sense with the 10% and 100% formes switched, and the height and weight fields feature a variation on that where the 10% forme is underneath the other two, rather than the 100% forme that can be achieved by either of the other two formes being on the bottom, which I think would make more sense. Am I alone in thinking a change from the current order would be preferable? --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] [[User talk:AndyPKMN|(talk)]] 21:18, 1 July 2016 (UTC)
:I would second that. The current layout is somewhat awkward when reading from left to right. Ideally, I would say that 10% Forme should be on the leftmost side, and Complete Forme should be on the rightmost. [[User:Pacack| '''Pa'''ᗧ•••ᗣ'''ck''' ]] 14:35, 2 July 2016 (UTC)

== Is the page protected or something? ==

I can't find the usual 'Edit' button all over the page. Is it protected? There is something I'd like to add in the 'Origin' section.
[[User:PkmnTrainerV|The legendary PkmnTrainerV is Here!]] ([[User talk:PkmnTrainerV|talk]]) 11:10, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
:It is not protected for non-autoconfirmed users, what do you want to add? Also don't respond to comments over 6 months old as those conversations are most likely not relevant or have already been resolved. --[[User:Raltseye|Raltseye]] [[User talk:Raltseye|prata med mej]] 11:26, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
Well, I wanted to add that Zygarde's hexagons may be based on the fact that France, the region which Kalos is based on, is also called L'hexagon [meaning, the hexagon].
[[User:PkmnTrainerV|The legendary PkmnTrainerV is Here!]] ([[User talk:PkmnTrainerV|talk]]) 11:14, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

== Zygarde Cube ==

Information regarding the moves able to teach to Zygarde via the Zygarde Cube, once located the cores, is missing

{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Island
!Location
!Move Taught
|-
|Melemele Island
|Route 1
|Extreme Speed
|-
|Melemele Island
|Iki Town
|Thousand Arrows
|-
|Akala Island
|Konikoni City
|Dragon Dance
|-
|Ula'ula Island
|Route 17
|Thousand Waves
|-
|Poni Island
|Ancient Poni Path
|Core Enforcer
|}

[[User:Apps1028|Apps1028]] ([[User talk:Apps1028|talk]]) 21:47, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

== Trio ==

Comon, How can you include Mohn as Lillies Dad on Mohns page despite it not being declared officially, just hinted at, and yet not include Zygarde as part of a trio with Xerneas and Yveltal, which it so painfully obviously is. Specially after it's 100% Entry.
Zygarde is the Third Member, just add it, you don't need to wait for "Official confirmation", it's included in the cards as a trio, in side games, IT IS A TRIO {{unsigned|EvilCilan}}
:Although I may not agree with how you say it, I agree that there should be a point where common sense trumps "official confirmation" or "we need a reason, not just them being linked together". With a lot of duos or trios, we just ''know'' they are linked, we don't need ''direct evidence'', which I would like to add, is there. And the Mohn thing just adds to the ridiculousness of the situation. --[[User:Celadonkey|--Celadonkey]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 22:37, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
:Also, just a notice, please sign your messages with four tildes, like <nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki>. --[[User:Celadonkey|--Celadonkey]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 22:43, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
::Mohn being Lillie's father was explained on [[Talk:Mohn|his talk page]]. He discovered the Ultra Wormhole, Gladion said his dad discovered the Ultra Wormhole. Put two and two together.
::We can't just assume that it's a third member, even when it keeps getting grouped with the others, what if Game Freak decides that no, Zygarde, Yveltal, and Xerneas do not make a trio. It doesn't seem likely, but with all the changes this franchise has had, you just never know.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 05:27, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
:::Although I for one do believe the three of them as a trio, ForceFire is right that the franchies just keeps changing, it could eventually outright say they are a trio or that they'll just keeping leaving these hints.[[User:Animaltamer7|Animaltamer7]]10:09, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
:::I believe what EvilCilan was trying to say was, even though one could logically assume that Mohn is the father of Lillie and Gladion given the evidence, it hasn't been explicitly stated, just like how one could logically assume Zygarde is the third member of the trio, given the evidence. Or I could be wrong, EvilCilan might just think that Mohn is not the father. I dunno. --[[User:Celadonkey|--Celadonkey]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 12:46, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
::::I don't think the two can be compared. Mohn "discovered" the wormholes, so he must be the first one to do so (or else the word is misused). Unless the developers/games dictate that one of the two statements are false, then both must be true to make sense. On the other hand, Zygarde's case is different. There weren't any outright references to a "trio". If an NPC says that "Yveltal, Xerneas, and one other Pokemon makes a trio" AND "Zygarde was part of some sort of trio in Kalos", then you can put them in a trio. Unlike Mohn's case, we never got any factual statements about a trio. You can make a logical and factual conclusion based on two statements (Mohn), but you can't do the same for assumptions (Zygarde). The most we can derive from the hints is that Zygarde is related to the two. It's frustrating, I know. But I agree that we should wait for Gamefreak to confirm it. We probably would have gotten confirmation if we got Pokemon Z, but meh. No use talking about "ifs". [[User:Sucoleo|Sucoleo]] ([[User talk:Sucoleo|talk]]) 15:57, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
:::::[[XYS05]]? Not really a good evidence i guess? -[[User:Pokeant|Pokeant]] ([[User talk:Pokeant|talk]]) 16:30, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
::::::Could you tell us what happens here? The article has no info and I would like to have as much evidence as possible. --[[User:Celadonkey|--Celadonkey]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 16:38, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
::::::Thank you for mentioning this episode! After watching the sub I believe it is the final piece to the puzzle as it not only shows that Xerneas, Yveltal, and Zygarde are linked, but it explains ''how'' they are linked! I am writing some paragraphs on why Zygarde is a member of the trio, and will for sure add this. --[[User:Celadonkey|--Celadonkey]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 22:36, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

That's exactly what I mean [[User:EvilCilan|EvilCilan]] ([[User talk:EvilCilan|talk]]) 15:12, 16 December 2016 (UTC)EvilCilan
:Please do not resign unsigned comments - it causes an incorrect timestamp. --[[User:Celadonkey|--Celadonkey]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 15:27, 16 December 2016 (UTC)

== Revisiting Zygarde's place in the Mortality Duo/Trio ==

This may be an issue that I've been discussing too much but I feel ''very'' strongly about it and believe that Zygarde truly belongs in the Mortality Duo. Today I watched the sub of [[XYS05]] and I believe that it contains sufficient evidence as to Zygarde's place in the duo - it not only shows that Zygarde is linked with Xerneas and Yveltal, but explains how/why.

The Legend of XYZ is exactly what it sounds like - it is a legend about Xerneas, Yveltal, and Zygarde. The episode starts with Sycamore and Alexa discussing a legend in Kalos. The episode flashes back to the legend, where a character named Jan is planning to defeat the Pokemon Yveltal. As he is about to go and face it, it appears and uses a move (presumably Oblivion Wing) and turns Jan's girlfriend, Aira, to stone. Jan, in an attempt to revive Aira, searches for Xerneas. Xerneas, in its tree, is about to be burned by a ruler who believes that if it cannot bring wealth, then it has no value. But as the soldiers set fire to the tree, Zygarde appears and attacks (presumably Thousand Arrows). Sycamore's words on this scene is, "I think both Yveltal and Xerneas, they are manifestations of nature that are responsible for regulating order. And if the order is corrupted, Zygarde appears to fix that. These three are responsible for the caring of life." (all sic). Jan, after seeing all of this, writes three stories - one labeled with a large X, one labeled with a large Y, and one labeled with a large Z. '''Thus, Xerneas, Yveltal, and Zygarde are linked by the "Legend of XYZ", the story of Xerneas, Yveltal, and Zygarde.'''

I may have skipped over a few things in the episode, if anyone wants to add anything, feel free. --[[User:Celadonkey|--Celadonkey]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 23:23, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
:After rewatching the episode, it seems to me that the order Zygarde protects is specifically the order from Xerneas and Yveltal, as Zygarde attacks after Xerneas and Yveltal are angered. Even disregarding my speculation, is this episode enough evidence to add Zygarde to the Mortality Duo? --[[User:Celadonkey|--Celadonkey]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 14:43, 13 December 2016 (UTC)

== Zygarde Complete Forme's body style ==

Just a little thing. Zygarde Complete Forme's body style is bipedal tailed ([[File:Body06.png]]). I can't edit this page so I thought I'd let someone else do it =) [[User:WhosHaddady|WhosHaddady]] ([[User talk:WhosHaddady|talk]]) 16:00, 26 December 2016 (UTC)

== Possible Trivia (Complete Forme's HP stat) ==

Zygarde seems to be the only Pokémon that can undergo an in-battle form change whose HP stat changes. All others - [[Mega Evolution|Megas]], [[Primal Reversion|Primals]], [[Greninja (Pokémon)|Ash-Greninja]], [[Castform (Pokémon)|Castform]], [[Cherrim (Pokémon)|Cherrim]], [[Shaymin (Pokémon)|Shaymin]], [[Darmanitan (Pokémon)|Darmanitan]], [[Meloetta (Pokémon)|Meloetta]], [[Aegislash (Pokémon)|Aegislash]], [[Wishiwashi (Pokémon)|Wishiwashi]], and [[Minior (Pokémon)|Minior]] - have the same HP stat before and after their transformation. Could this be valid trivia for the page? [[User:ShermTank7272|ShermTank7272]] ([[User talk:ShermTank7272|talk]]) 00:48, 16 January 2017 (UTC)

== With the dub of XYS05... ==

I'd say it's [[Talk:Legendary_trio#Gen_VI_Trio|pretty much confirmed]] that Zygarde is a part of a trio with Xerneas and Yveltal... Can any mods verify this? --[[User:Celadonkey|Celad]][[User_talk:Celadonkey|onkey]] 13:57, 29 January 2017 (UTC)

:And the fact all three plays a role in the story and ecosystem as mentioned in anime--[[User:Jacob9594|Jacob Kogan]] ([[User talk:Jacob9594|talk]]) 16:18, 29 January 2017 (UTC)

== Editing ==

Is there a reason Zygarde is locked for editing but Xerneas is not? Mintshadow2 17:43, 13 February 2017 (UTC)
:It's available for editing, but only to {{bp|autoconfirmed}} users. Given that this was implemented in late 2015, I suspect it may be a leftover from the speculation crackdown when its alternate forms were first announced prior to the anime's XY&Z arc, but [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Zygarde_%28Pok%C3%A9mon%29&type=revision&diff=2356870&oldid=2350742 no specific justification was given], so I can't say for sure. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 19:14, 13 February 2017 (UTC)
::I thought it was because of the whole Aura trio thing that'd been going on for a few years, but either way. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celad]][[User_talk:Celadonkey|onkey]] 22:18, 13 February 2017 (UTC)

==Trivia==
I put something under the trivia about Zygarde being the only Pokémon with 2 signature abilities. It got removed because the Flabebe line also have 2 signature abilities. I purposely knew this at the time but they are not their signature abilities anymore as {{p|Comfey}} now has {{a|Flower Veil}} and {{p|Oranguru}} has {{a|Symbiosis}} (But cannot legally get it at the time of this comment). Can I ask why it was removed and if whoever removed it would like to have a friendly discussion why? Thanks. [[User:The IceCream|The IceCream]] ([[User talk:The IceCream|talk]]) 21:37, 13 October 2017 (UTC)
:Yeah, current vs. ever is a gray area with those, but I removed it because I feel like restricting it to current counts as a kind of exclusion, which is something that disqualifies trivia from notability. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 22:39, 13 October 2017 (UTC)

== Similarities ==
How has no one pointed out Zygarde's similarities to Cell from DBZ? [[User:TJBexter|TJBexter's the name, gaming's my... uh.. game.]] ([[User talk:TJBexter|talk]]) 19:11, 11 February 2018 (UTC)
:Bulbapedia policy is that we typically don't compare to copyrighted characters unless the similarity is explicitly stated. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 19:15, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

== Mecha design basis ==

Should it be noted that Complete Zygarde's visual design closely resembles any number of giant robots from anime? This is largely due to its overall technological-looking humanoid design (despite being organic), as well as its "combining" gimmick and the "face" on its chest (these are not features unique to Gundam or Gurren Lagann, which are the most commonly cited by fans). [[User:Darthrai|Darthrai]] ([[User talk:Darthrai|talk]]) 18:27, 3 April 2018 (UTC)

== I am not convinced that Zygarde has anything to do with Norse mythology ==

----
The 50% forme resembles a mahoraga, a creature similar to eastern dragons and the naga, they also live underground.

Behaviorally, Zygarde in general is closer to Vishnu, the preserver while Níðhöggr is actually a wicked beast trying to destroy the universe (the world tree) which is the opposite of Zygarde who protects ecosystems.

I am not sure what the 10% Forme is supposed to be, but the connection to Fenrir seems somewhat shaky, too. It seems to be just a dog so why specifically connect Zygarde 10% Forme, instead of Lycanroc or Zacian, to Fenrir?
--[[User:Adelon|Adelon]] ([[User talk:Adelon|talk]]) 17:09, 10 January 2020 (UTC)

== I Don't Think the Names for Zygarde Core and Cell are Correct in Russian ==

I think the names were swapped because ядра is a nucleus, and Клетки are cells. Should I swap those? [[User:NinjaMantaray|NinjaMantaray]] ([[User talk:NinjaMantaray|talk]]) 18:28, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

nm I switched it already [[User:NinjaMantaray|NinjaMantaray]] ([[User talk:NinjaMantaray|talk]]) 03:37, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

== Zygarde edit war ==

hey there has been an edit war on Zygarde trivia and source link. So I setting this up for anyone to help settle this issue for good and these changes keep going back and forth.[[User:Jacob9594|Jacob9594 ]] ([[User talk:Jacob9594|talk]]) 20:24, 21 October 2025 (UTC)

== Character? ==

Like Pecharunt, Ogerpon, Arceus, shouldn't there be a page for the Zygarde that appeared in Legends Z-A??? [[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 10:05, 1 November 2025 (UTC)

Talk:List of game characters

2025-10-25T09:52:54Z

Neos: /* Pokémon Legends ZA */

== Images ==
Would it be better to restyle the page in a manner that does not involve images, since not everyone has a sprite, and that makes the article seem incredibly lacking. {{unsigned|Turtwig A}}
:It could be changed to look a little like [[Template:TCG Releases]], or maybe the characters without sprites could be omitted? [[User:GoldenCelebi|GoldenCelebi]] 16:28, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
::...Hello? *clears throat meaningfully* [[User:GoldenCelebi|GoldenCelebi]] 17:59, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
:::Can't the overworld sprites be used for those? [[User talk:Duke R|'''|) u |( e''']] [[Special:Contributions/Duke R|'''®''']] 18:38, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
::::That could work. I tried it before, but I couldn't find any overworld sprites for most of them. If you'd like to look again, you're perfectly welcome. This is a wiki, after all. [[User:GoldenCelebi|GoldenCelebi]] 20:08, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
:::::I'm into other projects now, that was a suggestion. [[User talk:Duke R|'''|) u |( e''']] [[Special:Contributions/Duke R|'''®''']] 20:17, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

== Adding sprites? ==

Do they have to battle sprites or can they also be overworld sprites too? ''[[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen]] [[User talk:Frozen Fennec|Fennec]]'' 17:12, 6 March 2012 (UTC)
:To be honest, I think any sprites would do, or even Sugimori art if necessary. [[User:GoldenCelebi|Golden]][[User talk:GoldenCelebi|Celebi]] 22:34, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
::Was wondering since looking at the article it seems to be they all have to be in-game sprites (or icons for the 3D games). ''[[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen]] [[User talk:Frozen Fennec|Fennec]]'' 22:43, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
:::Another question, you think anyone will mind if I convert the long lists into the image tables? ''[[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen]] [[User talk:Frozen Fennec|Fennec]]'' 22:48, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
::::I doubt it. It's been lying half-complete for about two months now. [[User:GoldenCelebi|Golden]][[User talk:GoldenCelebi|Celebi]] 22:56, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

== Wait. ==

Why Snap is in Generation II? [[DJ#Snap|Article]] doesn't say anything about GSC, only HGSS. Also, Reed is never seen in-game, only in radio, Lily doesn't appear either. [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] 16:05, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
:Yes, Snap should be in Generation I. Says it [[Pokémon games#Spin-off games|here]]. *goes off to change it* -- [[User:GoldenCelebi|Golden]][[User talk:GoldenCelebi|Celebi]] 10:08, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
::It's not referring to ''that'' Snap. There's a character, or radio host, named snap who appears in HGSS. Reed appears in GSC.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 10:12, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
:::Yet another idiotic mistake to add to my current tally. >:-/ -- [[User:GoldenCelebi|Golden]][[User talk:GoldenCelebi|Celebi]] 10:23, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

== Sprites replacement. ==

Because every character is listed by the game of debut and no repetition is used, the old characters have old sprites. I think this is not a good reason, so could we give everyone the newest sprite possible? Instead of their sprites of debut? [[User:Nickvang|Nickvang]] ([[User talk:Nickvang|talk]]) 12:53, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
:They should at least all use generation III sprites, even those characters introduced in generation I. {{unsigned|Nickvang}}
::I've done Kanto and it looks nicer now. I understand the list by debut, but not the list with debut pictures! [[User:Nickvang|Nickvang]] ([[User talk:Nickvang|talk]]) 15:24, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
:::Uh... might want to look at [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=List_of_game_characters&diff=1575909&oldid=1575908 this]. -- [[User:GoldenCelebi|Golden]][[User talk:GoldenCelebi|Celebi]] 17:35, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
I actually think Jo the Marten isn't right. If someone wants a list of game characters, the newest sprite possible must be used. I mean... ...there isn't a second list with the new images. Everybody needs a proper list with proper pictures. Like a said before: I understand the list by debut, but not the list with debut pictures! And by the way, noone seems to have trouble with my changes at the moment. [[User:Nickvang|Nickvang]] ([[User talk:Nickvang|talk]]) 07:59, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
:Read the headers. They say a specific game, we use a specific game sprite.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 08:06, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
But it's not 'fair' that being of a later generation means having a better game sprite. We start with old black and white sprites and we end with new colorful sprites. I find it confusing and pages like 'Gym leader' and 'Elite Four' have also their characters listed by debut, but not with debut sprites. [[User:Nickvang|Nickvang]] ([[User talk:Nickvang|talk]]) 08:21, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
:This is not about what's fair. This about listing them chronologically. The Kanto Gym leaders debuted in Generation I, therefore, we use Generation I sprites. Elite Four and Gym leader pages only have their newer sprites because that page is not about chronology, unlike here where all characters listed are by debut.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 08:27, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
::If I could throw in my two cents. I like it fine the way it is. If people want to see the newer sprites, they can just look up the character page. [[User:Crystal Talian|Crystal]] [[User talk:Crystal Talian|Talian]] 08:30, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

== Ruby/Sapphire ==

The color of the table in Ruby/Sapphire section hurts my eyes. Am I the only one? --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 08:24, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
:Yeah, you're right those green lines are very irritating, I don't know why they are there in the first place. It remembers me to the EP38 accident. [[User:Nickvang|Nickvang]] ([[User talk:Nickvang|talk]]) 08:35, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
::It's because [[template:ruby color]] is rather dark, along with [[template:sapphire color]] and [[template:hoenn color]].--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 08:39, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

== PMD? ==

Where's the PMD characters? --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 20:06, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

== One-time note. ==

Why do the remakes and stuf only have a few characters listed? [[User:Nickvang|Nickvang]] ([[User talk:Nickvang|talk]]) 16:15, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

== Sprites ==

So okay, debut sprites. But with B2W2, now I am confused. Some of GSC characters have sprite from Stadium 2, and someone (for an unknown reason), changed some of the BW sprites to these from B2W2. Therefore, what goes? Also, the Week Siblings now is broken, could someone fix that? [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] ([[User talk:Marked +-+-+|talk]]) 11:57, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
:Fixed Week Siblings. The way it was coded caused it to break on Sundays. --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 23:26, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
:: Marked you're right. I had a discussion about the usage of old sprites of characters which have gotten new sprites for a while, a while ago. And even though I don't think that I could try to convince people of my opinion this time, I think that the whole page should be synchronised. If a character debuts in a certain (pair of) game(s), then it will use the best sprite available of it in that (pair of) game(s). So if a character doesn't have a battle sprite in the game(s) of debut, it will be stuck to its overworld sprite (or worse)! So that means that Rood and Zinzolin shouldn't ever be using the battle sprites introduced in games released after the characters. So if I would agree with the way of working that is now used, I would say that Rood and Zinzolin would need to get back their overworld sprites in the list, or that the whole list will just use the newest sprites possible (yay!). [[User:Nickvang|Nickvang]] ([[User talk:Nickvang|talk]]) 19:34, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

== Pokemon Conquest Aid Characters ==

Should the characters like messenger and pongorri lady be included in the pokemon conquest section (if so I do not know how to make the circles and every thing) {{unsigned|Pastamasta}}

== Mystery Dungeon and Pokepark ==

Shouldn't the imporant characters from [[mystery dungeon]] and [[pokepark]] be included too, like [[Blitzle]] and [[Grovyle]] {{unsigned|Pastamasta}}

== Order and minor characters ==

In wich order the characters are? If there is no order is possible to put the major character in the current format, with sprites and images, and add a section for each games named "minor characters" or "other characters" to put all the characters without a image (or with a bad image. For Instace, Generation 1 could be like this: ---[[User talk: Fosco Corazza| Fosco Corazza ]] 14:31, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

==={{game|Red and Blue|s}}===
 

{| style="margin:auto; text-align:center; {{roundy|20px}} border: 2px solid #{{Kanto color dark}}; background: #{{Red color}};"
|-
| style="{{roundy|80px}} border: 2px solid #{{Kanto color dark}}; background: #{{Blue color light}}; width:96px; height:96px"| [[File:Spr RG Red 1.png]]
| style="{{roundy|80px}} border: 2px solid #{{Kanto color dark}}; background: #{{Blue color light}}; width:96px; height:96px"| [[File:Spr RG Blue 1.png]]
| style="{{roundy|80px}} border: 2px solid #{{Kanto color dark}}; background: #{{Blue color light}}; width:96px; height:96px"| [[File:Spr RG Oak.png]]
| style="{{roundy|80px}} border: 2px solid #{{Kanto color dark}}; background: #{{Blue color light}}; width:96px; height:96px"| [[File:Spr RG Brock.png]]
| style="{{roundy|80px}} border: 2px solid #{{Kanto color dark}}; background: #{{Blue color light}}; width:96px; height:96px"| [[File:Spr RG Misty.png]]
| style="{{roundy|80px}} border: 2px solid #{{Kanto color dark}}; background: #{{Blue color light}}; width:96px; height:96px"| [[File:Spr RG Lt Surge.png]]
| style="{{roundy|80px}} border: 2px solid #{{Kanto color dark}}; background: #{{Blue color light}}; width:96px; height:96px"| [[File:Spr RG Erika.png]]
| style="{{roundy|80px}} border: 2px solid #{{Kanto color dark}}; background: #{{Blue color light}}; width:96px; height:96px"| [[File:Spr RG Koga.png]]
|- style="font-size: 80%"
| {{color2|000|Red (game)|Red}}
| {{color2|000|Blue (game)|Blue}}
| {{color2|000|Professor Oak}}
| {{color2|000|Brock}}
| {{color2|000|Misty}}
| {{color2|000|Lt. Surge}}
| {{color2|000|Erika}}
| {{color2|000|Koga}}
|-
| style="{{roundy|80px}} border: 2px solid #{{Kanto color dark}}; background: #{{Blue color light}}; width:96px; height:96px"| [[File:Spr RG Sabrina.png]]
| style="{{roundy|80px}} border: 2px solid #{{Kanto color dark}}; background: #{{Blue color light}}; width:96px; height:96px"| [[File:Spr RG Blaine.png]]
| style="{{roundy|80px}} border: 2px solid #{{Kanto color dark}}; background: #{{Blue color light}}; width:96px; height:96px"| [[File:Spr RG Giovanni.png]]
| style="{{roundy|80px}} border: 2px solid #{{Kanto color dark}}; background: #{{Blue color light}}; width:96px; height:96px"| [[File:Spr RG Lorelei.png]]
| style="{{roundy|80px}} border: 2px solid #{{Kanto color dark}}; background: #{{Blue color light}}; width:96px; height:96px"| [[File:Spr RG Bruno.png]]
| style="{{roundy|80px}} border: 2px solid #{{Kanto color dark}}; background: #{{Blue color light}}; width:96px; height:96px"| [[File:Spr RG Agatha.png]]
| style="{{roundy|80px}} border: 2px solid #{{Kanto color dark}}; background: #{{Blue color light}}; width:96px; height:96px"| [[File:Spr RG Lance.png]]
| style="{{roundy|80px}} border: 2px solid #{{Kanto color dark}}; background: #{{Blue color light}}; width:96px; height:96px"| [[File:Spr RG Rocket.png]]
|- style="font-size: 80%"
| {{color2|000|Sabrina}}
| {{color2|000|Blaine}}
| {{color2|000|Giovanni}}
| {{color2|000|Lorelei}}
| {{color2|000|Bruno}}
| {{color2|000|Agatha}}
| {{color2|000|Lance}}
| {{color2|000|Team Rocket}}
|}

 
====Minor Characters====
*[[Daisy Oak]]
*[[Bill]]
*[[Mr. Fuji]]
*[[Copycat]]
*[[Baoba|Safari Zone Warden]]
*[[Pokémon Center lady|Pokémon Center Nurses]]
*[[Kiyo]]
*Red's [[mom]]
*[[Old man (Kanto)|Old man]]
*[[Professor's aides|Professor Oak's aides]]
*[[Marowak (ghost)|Ghost Marowak]]
 

::: News? Could it work? Does it suck? Can I work on it? --[[User talk: Fosco Corazza| Fosco Corazza ]] 18:02, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

::::Seems like a good idea to me. - [[User:Poikins|'''poi''']][[User talk:Poikins|'''kins''']] 22:23, 17 November 2013 (UTC)

== Sprites or Sugimori artwork ==

Can we turn every sprite into Sugimori artwork or keep the sprites since several characters doesn't have an artwork? [[User:Cinday123|Cinday123]] ''([[User talk:Cinday123|Talk]])'' 02:35, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

== Extension to Pokémon Scarlett and Violet Character ==

I want to add more character in Pokémon Scarlett and Violet since it's over a week after release. Should I add more character on the list? --[[User:Taufiq|Ταυφιϙ]] ([[User talk:Taufiq|talk]]) 16:21, 26 November 2022 (UTC)

Its been two weeks after release, I don't see why not, but can some administrator say anything?
--[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 19:02, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

I have been trying to add the game character page of terapagos into the list but i really dont understand how to edit the table, please can someone else add it? --[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 21:26, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

I’ve been trying to add Youssef to the page but I’m having a hard time since I use mobile can someone do it for me?? I think he’s an important minor character in Scarvio [[User:Mythic|Mythic]] ([[User talk:Mythic|talk]]) 19:54, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
:Carmen's on the page, so it seems reasonable that Youssef should be here too. I'll add him momentarily. [[User:Storm Aurora|'''Storm Aurora''']] ([[User talk:Storm Aurora|talk]]) 20:59, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, Storm Aurora {{unsigned|Mythic}}

== Pokémon Legends ZA ==

Shouldn't there be added already the characters from legends ZA that had been shown in the trailers to this list? [[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 16:21, 22 July 2025 (UTC)

:They will be added soon :) [[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']] 16:25, 22 July 2025 (UTC)

::Hello, I see that the characters from Legends ZA are starting to appear in the list, I think we should include Zygarde and Eternal Flower Floette, since they are part of the story, like other Pokémon in the past (Like Pecharunt, Terapagos, Ogerpon, Nebby) --[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 09:52, 25 October 2025 (UTC)

Talk:List of game characters

2025-07-22T16:21:49Z

Neos: /* Pokémon Legends ZA */ new section

Myths and legends involving Legendary and Mythical Pokémon

2025-07-10T09:04:19Z

Neos: /* The hidden treasure of Area Zero */

Throughout the [[Pokémon world]] and across many [[region]]s, a number of myths and legends have been recorded about {{pkmn2|Legendary}} and {{pkmn2|Mythical}} {{OBP|Pokémon|species}}.

==[[Orange Islands]]==
===[[Shamouti Island]]===
[[File:Fire Lightning Ice Islands.png|thumb|250px|Fire Island, Lightning Island, and Ice Island, as seen in ''[[M02|The Power of One]]'']]
An ancient prophecy circulates around the [[Orange Islands]] that says:

====Original====
{| width:100%
! Japanese
! English
|-
| <ab>{{tt|火の神、雷の神、氷の神に触れずべからず。|hi no kami, kaminari no kami, koori no kami ni fureru bekarazu}}
{{tt|されば、天地怒り世界は破滅に向かう。|sareba, tenchi ikari, sekai wa hametsu ni mukau}}
{{tt|海の神、破滅を救わんと現れん。|umi no kami, hametsu wo sukuwan to arawaren}}
{{tt|されど、世界の破滅を防ぐことならず。|saredo, sekai no hametsu wo fusegu koto narazu}}
{{tt|すぐれたるあやつり人現れ、神々の怒り静めん限り…。|suguretaru ayatsuribito araware, kamigami no ikari shizumen kagiri}}</ab>
| <ab>''The god of fire, god of lightning, and god of ice must not be touched.
Else, heaven and earth will be angered and the world will face destruction.
The god of the sea will appear to stop the destruction.
But, it will not prevent the world's destruction.
Unless an exceptional trainer appears to calm the wrath of the gods....</ab>
|}

====English dub====
: Disturb not the harmony of {{p|Moltres|Fire}}, {{p|Articuno|Ice}}, or {{p|Zapdos|Lightning}}
: Lest these Titans wreak destruction
: Upon the world in which they clash

: Though {{p|Lugia|the Water's Great Guardian}} shall arise to quell the fighting
: Alone its song will fail
: Thus the earth shall turn to ash

: O [[Chosen One]]
: Into thine hands bring together all three
: Their treasures combined tame the Beast of The Sea
: From the trio of islands, ancient spheres shall you take
: For between life and death, all the difference you'll make
: Climb to the shrine to right what is wrong
: And the world shall be healed by the Guardian's song...

A festival is held on [[Shamouti Island]] to honor the Chosen One.

==[[Johto]]==
===The [[Burned Tower|Brass]] and [[Bell Tower]]s===
[[File:Ecruteak City Landscape.png|thumb|right|250px|The [[Burned Tower|burned Brass Tower]] and [[Bell Tower]] in [[Ecruteak City]]]]

There's a legend that has been passed down by {{ci|Ecruteak}} [[Gym Leader]]s for many years:

:''Two towers... Two Pokémon... But when one burned down, both Pokémon flew away, never to return.''

700 years before the events of [[Generation II]], the people of Ecruteak built two nine-tier towers with the hopes of fostering friendship and hope between Pokémon and [[humans]]. They were the [[Burned Tower|Brass Tower]] in the west, which was said to awaken Pokémon, and the [[Bell Tower]] in the east, where Pokémon were said to rest. Both towers became the roost of powerful flying Pokémon {{p|Lugia}} and {{p|Ho-Oh}} respectively with Lugia residing at Brass Tower while Ho-oh for the Bell. Both birds were said to be the guardian of the skies and seas. A friendship of harmony was formed between the people who communicated with the two legendary birds.

However, about 150 years before the games' events, something terrible happened as the town was bathed in the moonlit night. Lugia's peaceful rest was disturbed by a lightning storm that grew until a powerful lightning bolt struck the Brass Tower. It was engulfed in flames that raged for three days. Lugia at first tried to use the winds to stop the flame, but it threatened to destroy the town in the process. So Lugia decided to call upon rain to battle the fire until the blaze was finally extinguished, but it had already burnt to the ground. [[List of disputed and unidentified Pokémon#Original Legendary beasts|Three nameless]] Pokémon perished in the fire, but Ho-Oh descended from the sky and resurrected them. The Pokémon are said to embody three powers: the {{p|Raikou|lightning}} that struck the tower, the {{p|Entei|fire}} that burned the tower, and the {{p|Suicune|rain}} that put out the fire. When the Pokémon appeared, they struck awe and terror in those who saw their rise. The reason was the people feared Ho-Oh's power to manipulate life and try to use violence on the [[Legendary beasts]]. The three Pokémon, knowing their own power, and choosing not to retaliate, fled, [[roaming Pokémon|running like the wind]] off into the grassland to avoid being harmed by the townspeople of Ecruteak City. It is believed that the Legendary beasts will return only when the trio is ready to trust humans again.

Ho-Oh and Lugia haven't been seen since the fire. Ho-Oh fled due to the violence of the people who feared its power. Lugia fled due to being overwhelmed by the distress caused by fire damaging the Brass Tower and decided to live in the ocean's depths. According to legend, when the souls of Pokémon and humans commune, upon the emergence of a Trainer who has the ability to touch the souls of Pokémon, Ho-Oh will return from the heavens. While Lugia is said to return to the Ecruteak City only when some pure heart appears before it. The Brass Tower is left the way it is as a reminder of what can be lost and regained.

A similar legend is addressed in {{aniseries|PTS}}. In the {{aniseries|GS|''Gold and Silver'' series}} episode ''[[EP181|A Ghost of a Chance]]'', [[Morty]] says the two towers are the original [[Bell Tower|Tin Tower]], which burned down, and a rebuilt one. He says that invaders came and tried to steal Ho-Oh, who resisted and fled, and then they burned down the tower. When the legend is revisited in ''[[EP227|For Ho-Oh the Bells Toll!]]'', however, the story more closely parallels the game version, but the war aspect remains. [[Ash Ketchum]] seems to fulfill the prophecy as a Trainer who has the ability to touch the souls of Pokémon, as he has encountered both Ho-Oh and Suicune several times.

===[[Eon duo|The Guardians]] of the [[Alto Mare|Water Capital]]===
The island city of [[Alto Mare]]'s history is intertwined with the following tale:

{| width="100%"
|-
! width="50%" | Japanese
! width="50%" | English
|-
| lang="ja" | 昔々、アルトマーレという島におじいさんとおばあさんがいました。
| A long time ago on an island called [[Alto Mare]] there lived an old man and a woman.
|-
| lang="ja" | ある日、二人は海岸で、小さな兄弟がけがをしているのを見つけました。
| One day, they found two wounded children on the seaside.
|-
| lang="ja" | おじいさんとおばあさんの手厚い看護で二人がみるみる良くなっていきました。
| With the old couple's careful nursing, the children got better quickly.
|-
| lang="ja" | しかし突然、邪悪な怪物が島を攻めてきたのです。
| But then suddenly an evil monster appeared and attacked the city.
|-
| lang="ja" | 島はたちまち怪物に飲み込まれました。
| The island was instantly swallowed up by the monster.
|-
| lang="ja" | と、その時、おじいさんとおばあさんの目の前で二人の姿は変わっていきました。
| But then before the man's and the woman's eyes, the children transformed.
|-
| lang="ja" | 二人は夢幻ポケモン、ラティオスとラティアスだったのです。
| They were the mirage Pokémon {{p|Latias}} and {{p|Latios}}.
|-
| lang="ja" | 二匹は空から仲間を呼び寄せました。
| The two of them called their friends from the sky.
|-
| lang="ja" | 彼らは、邪悪な闇を追い払う力を持って来てくれました。
| They brought the power to drive away the evil darkness.
|-
| lang="ja" | それは、「心のしずく」という宝石だったのです。
| That power was a jewel called the [[Soul Dew]].
|-
| lang="ja" | 島には平和が戻りました。
| Peace returned to the island.
|-
| lang="ja" | それからというもの、「心のしずく」のあるこの島に、ラティオスとラティアスはしばしば立ち寄るようになりました。
| And after that, Latias and Latios often visited this island, where the Soul Dew is.
|
|-
| lang="ja" | この島が邪悪な怪物に襲われる事はその後、二度とありませんでした。
| The island was never attacked again by the evil monster.
|}

Note: The legend sequence was cut from the dub version of the [[M05|movie]], so there is no official English translation.

===[[Whirl Islands]]===
The [[Whirl Islands]] used to be one large island, but at some point, in time two countries began fighting over the island. Lugia, the guardian of the then singular Whirl Island, got upset and cast lightning bolts that tore the island into four pieces. Lugia then disappeared into the deep end of the waterfall basin, longing for the invisible trust between people and Pokémon to manifest once more.

===[[Embedded Tower]]===
A long time ago, people from the [[Hoenn]] region came to visit the [[Johto]] region. The people built a very tall tower on [[Johto Route 47|Route 47]]. This tower was built in honor of the [[Super-ancient Pokémon]]. The tower connects to the sky, part of the cliff, and deep into the ocean. The Legendary Pokémon are said to appear at the Embedded Tower when the respective [[Colored orbs]] are brought inside it.

==[[Hoenn]]==
==={{p|Regirock}}, {{p|Regice}}, and {{p|Registeel}}===
In addition to the Unown, Braille has also been used to tell legends. In {{3v2|Ruby|Sapphire|Emerald}}, the {{player}} can use the Braille to uncover {{p|Regirock}}, {{p|Regice}}, and {{p|Registeel}}.

The legend, found on various rocks in the [[Sealed Chamber]], reads:

: <sc>In this cave we have lived.</sc>
: <sc>We owe all to the Pok</sc>é<sc>mon.</sc>
: <sc>But, we sealed the Pok</sc>é<sc>mon away.</sc>
: <sc>We feared it.</sc>
: <sc>Those with courage, those with hope.</sc>
: <sc>Open a door. An eternal Pok</sc>é<sc>mon waits.</sc>

Because the message is in singular instead of plural, it is possible that the Pokémon being referred to is {{p|Regigigas}}, and that the people of [[Snowpoint City]] wanted to seal Regigigas away, and created three keys, the [[legendary giants]], that had to be obtained to awaken Regigigas. To make it as hard as possible to reawaken Regigigas, the people of Snowpoint City sealed the legendary giants away in [[Hoenn|another region]]. Otherwise, since Regigigas didn't exist yet when the games were made, it might refer to the three Regi's separately or a hint that meant that Regigigas will come back then.

==={{P|Kyogre}}, {{P|Groudon}}, and {{P|Rayquaza}}===
The legend of the Super-ancient Pokémon was passed down by the [[Draconid people|Draconids]] tribe who have witnessed this history.

Thousands of years ago during the lost primal age when the [[Hoenn]] region was filled with natural primal energy, {{p|Kyogre|Primal Kyogre}} and {{p|Groudon|Primal Groudon}} were created from said energy.<ref>[[Zinnia]]: ''"Thousands of years ago, in the primal age long lost, the world was overflowing with natural energy. Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre fought over that energy in endless, furious clashes."'' ([[Pokémon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire]])</ref>. There are legends when the duo have saved the region from respective droughts and floods with their power. However, the duo were known to engage in violent and endless battles with each other in order to obtain the primal energy for themselves. The reason is due to being the embodiments of nature, they are compelled to seek it out despite the risk of losing control for absorbing too much. During this, Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre created the land and sea of the [[Hoenn]] region as a result of these clashes. Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre recieved their names from the people they tormented during their endless clashes.<ref>[https://web.archive.org/web/20150208024506/http://www.pokemonrubysapphire.com/en-us/pokemon/legendary-pokemon/primal-groudon-and-primal-kyogre | Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre | Official Site | Pokémon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire]</ref>

The people living in the Hoenn were helpless to stop these ancient clashes as disaster after disaster kept emerging. During this time, meteorites fell into the [[Meteor Falls]] where the Draconids, {{type|Dragon}} users lived. Some of these meteors contained the first [[Mega Stone]]s, which its brilliant light allowed Rayquaza to descend onto the Hoenn region for the first time. Rayquaza then proceeded to use its power to overwhelm Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre, putting an end to their endless conflict and restoring peace to the region. Rayquaza was worshiped by the people of Hoenn as their true savior.

1,000 years after this event, the meteors returned to fall in the Hoenn region. One of these meteorites, far greater and bigger than the previous ones crashed deep into the region's core at the bottom of the ocean. The crater was later filled with rainwater. This resulted in people coming to live in the crater for the freshwater it had, thus creating the city of [[Sootopolis City]].

Unfortunately, this meteor impact will be the start of many disasters to befall the Hoenn region afterwards. The impact caused the natural energy from the Primal age to return, overwhelming the region with its energy. This causes Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre to fully awaken again. The duo proceeded to fight each other in a violent clash for twenty dawns and twenty nights. This catastrophic battle threatened to disrupt the planet's balance and destroy the world if left unchecked.<ref>[https://web.archive.org/web/20150209222143/http://www.pokemonrubysapphire.com/en-us/pokemon/legendary-pokemon/the-legends-of-hoenn-continue | The Legends of Hoenn Continue]</ref>

Through a memory from the ancient past, a Lorekeeper of the Draconid tribe with a [[Key Stone]] along with the people of Sootopolis City wished for Rayquaza to return and help save the world. The meteor that laid within Sootopolis shone a huge brilliant light that allowed Rayquaza to return. The people bowed before Rayquaza and prayed for salvation. After hearing their prayers, {{p|Rayquaza}} was filled with a great change, achieving the first ever recorded [[Mega Evolution]]. Thus, Mega Rayquaza was born by the bonds of humanity's wish channeled through the Key Stone.

Eventually, Mega Rayquaza went to confront Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre. Using the power of its emerald light and [[Strong winds|terrible wind]], the duo were stripped of their primal powers, reverting Groudon and Kyogre to their current state. The duo proceeded to return to the depths of land and sea in order to slumber. Reverting to normal, Rayquaza returned to the sky with its duty completed. [[AZ]], who witnessed the events spoke this line, “It is the Δ (Delta), born of the great disturbances in this world. By the bonds born of mankind's wish and the power of the stones, it will calm the troubles that plague the world.” AZ would later give a giant tree as a gift for Sootopolis City placed in the center of the city.

In gratitude, the Draconid people built the [[Sky Pillar]] in order to store the power of Key Stone, get closer to Rayquaza, and record the history of these events through mural paintings. For 1,000 years after this, there was peace in the Hoenn region. However, the Draconid people predicted a huge meteor known as the [[Grand Meteor Delta]] would come, and its impact would destroy the world. In preparation for this event, the Draconid people came up with a plan where a Lorekeeper would summon Rayquaza back to the Hoenn region before the Grand Meteor Delta could strike. Then Lorekeeper would pray for Rayquaza to Mega evolve and destroy the meteor for good.

At some point, the [[Red Orb]] and [[Blue Orb]] were created. These orbs had the power to both calm and put {{p|Groudon}} and {{p|Kyogre}} into a deep slumber. The only way for this slumber to end is that the respective Orbs be used on either Groudon or Kyogre. The Orbs can also unlock Groudon and Kyogre's Primal forms through a process known as [[Primal Reversion]], allowing the duo to regain their lost primal state.<ref>[https://web.archive.org/web/20150208024506/http://www.pokemonrubysapphire.com/en-us/pokemon/legendary-pokemon/primal-groudon-and-primal-kyogre | Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre | Official Site | Pokémon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire]</ref> The orbs were safely hidden away on [[Mt. Pyre]]. A third orb called the [[Jade Orb]] was also created with the power to call Rayquaza as well.

==[[Sinnoh]]/[[Hisui]]==
{{main|Sinnoh myths}}
==={{p|Regigigas}}===
[[File:Snowpoint Temple B5F DPPt.png|thumb|250px|Encountering Regigigas in {{game|Diamond and Pearl|s}}]]
There's a legend that has been passed down by the people of [[Snowpoint City]] for many years:

:''Once after a volcano violently erupted, the Snowpoint Forest, rich in natural resources and beauty, was transformed into a sea of flowing lava.''
:''Then, out of a bright blue light, {{p|Regigigas}} appeared. Along with {{p|Regirock}}, {{p|Regice}}, and {{p|Registeel}}.''
:''Together, the four of them halted the volcano's eruption, thus saving Snowpoint City from destruction. ''
:''Later Regigigas transformed itself into a stone of life and fell into a deep sleep, while in order to protect Regigigas, the legend says that Regice, Regirock, and Registeel transformed into three guardian pillars made of the basic elements of rock, ice, and steel.''

In {{game|Diamond and Pearl|s|Pokémon Diamond, Pearl}}, and {{v2|Platinum}}, the player can travel to Snowpoint Temple after obtaining the [[National Pokédex]]. If the player has all three of the [[legendary giants]] in their party, Regigigas will awaken and be able to be battled and captured.

==={{p|Arceus}} and the creation of the {{Pkmn|universe}}===
According to [[Sinnoh myths|myths, legends]], and the [[Old Verse]]s, before the beginning of the [[Pokémon universe]] there was only a vortex of complete chaos and nothingness, from which a single Egg comes into being, which then hatches into {{p|Arceus}}, the first being in existence. When Arceus hatched from this egg, it shaped the world with its thousand arms and created [[Hisui]]. {{p|Arceus}} then created the Origin Forme of {{p|Dialga|the Pokémon of time}}, {{p|Palkia|the Pokémon of space}}, and {{p|Giratina|the Pokémon of antimatter}}. Eventually, [[human]]s began to inhabit the land Arceus created. Arceus then created three new Pokémon to give all living things that come into existence {{p|Uxie|knowledge}}, {{p|Mesprit|emotions}}, and {{p|Azelf|willpower}}. These three Pokémon are said to inhabit three lakes in Hisui. {{p|Dialga}} and {{p|Palkia}} each inhabit their own [[dimension]]s, while {{p|Giratina}} was banished to the [[Distortion World]] by Arceus, who created it for Giratina.

{{p|Heatran}} and [[Stark Mountain]] would be created indirectly in the progress. Upon creating the certain orbs for the Pokémon of Myth, Arceus proceeds to enter a deep slumber in [[Hall of Origin]] located in [[Dimension#Arceus's world|Arceus's dimension]].

These Pokémon are encountered in their respective games, coming from their respective dimensions. Also, they can be encountered in {{game|HeartGold and SoulSilver|s}} through a special event. If the player has an Arceus in their party while in the [[Ruins of Alph]], they can go to the [[Sinjoh Ruins]] and obtain (an egg with) one of the [[Pokémon of Myth|Legendary Pokémon of their choice]].

===[[Ancient hero|The ancient hero]]===
A long time ago, an ancient hero went to collect 18 [[Plate]]s in order to find {{p|Arceus}}. Aiding him were ten different Pokémon from the [[Hisui]] region. There were as follows: {{p|Wyrdeer}}, {{p|Kleavor}}, {{p|Ursaluna}}, Hisuian {{p|Lilligant}}, {{p|Basculegion}}, Hisuian {{p|Arcanine}}, {{p|Sneasler}}, Hisuian {{p|Electrode}}, Hisuian {{p|Braviary}}, and Hisuian {{p|Avalugg}}. Eventually, the ten and the hero would find Arceus at [[Mount Coronet]]. They proceed to battle ''Sinnoh'', during which Arceus struck them down ten times, and each Pokémon received a blessing as a result. They would become the first Noble Pokémon and Ride Pokémon. At some point after earning his "hero" title, the man led his Pokémon companions against a being known as the "almighty unknowable", his valiance in battle proclaiming the strength of humankind, which the unknowable approved, returning to its "domain of no place".

In gratitude, the [[Temple of Sinnoh]] was built in honor of the ancient hero and his 10 Pokémon who were blessed by Arceus. This power would pass on to their descendants. Eventually, the [[Diamond Clan]] and [[Pearl Clan]] would watch over these 10 Pokémon, each guarded by a [[Warden]]. The wardens ensured these Pokémon were protected, while the Noble Pokémon would regularly receive food and water as offerings. They also guarded the Plates of Arceus.

==={{p|Uxie}}, {{p|Mesprit}}, and {{p|Azelf}}===
After {{p|Arceus}} created the universe along with the [[Pokémon of Myth]], it proceeds to create a single egg. From that egg, the Lake guardians {{p|Uxie}}, {{p|Mesprit}}, and {{p|Azelf}} emerged from it. When the trio were created, Knowledge, Emotion, and Willpower emerged into the universe. Arceus created the trio with the duty to guide and protect humans. Additionally, they were given the duty to calm {{p|Dialga}} and {{p|Palkia}} should the deities be enraged. Either by uniting together or by creating the [[Red Chain]] which has the power to tame and calm the Legendary Pokémon. The trio lives at the bottom of three different lakes in Sinnoh called [[Lake Acuity]], [[Lake Verity]], and [[Lake Valor]].

The trio were worshipped by the ancient people of [[Hisui]] for providing them with different gifts. Uxie allows humans the ability to solve problems and improve their life. From Mesprit, the ability to feel emotions such as sorrow, pain, and joy. From Azelf, the willpower to deal with any challenges in their way regardless of the difficulty. However, the Lake Guardians were also feared due to their ability to take away knowledge, emotion, and willpower if provoked to protect themselves.

==={{p|Landorus}} and {{p|Enamorus}}===
According to legend, Landorus and Enamorus both arrived at [[Hisui]] during the end of winter and the start of spring through the winds. Landorus and Enamorus used their powers to bring fresh life to the region. In gratitude, both Legendary Pokémon were referred to as the gods of field and spring respectively in the Hisui Region. Additionally, Enamorus was given the title of ''Herald of Spring''.

==[[Unova]]==
===The [[Heroes of Truth and Ideals|twin heroes]] and the [[List of disputed and unidentified Pokémon#In the games|original dragon]]===
Several of the Unova myths revolve around {{p|Zekrom}} and {{p|Reshiram}}. It is said that the two Dragon Pokémon were once a single powerful Pokémon owned by [[Heroes of Truth and Ideals|twin heroes]]. However, it was split apart by the pursuit of the different beliefs of the two brothers.

The legends of [[Lacunosa Town]] dictate that when a meteorite crashed outside of the city limits, {{p|Kyurem}} would come out at night and eat both Pokémon and people. To prevent further raids, the people of Lacunosa built walls and forbade night travel. Even during the events of {{4v|Black|White|2}}, everyone in Lacunosa Town stays indoors at night.

In {{B2W2}}, a conflicting story arises: It is said that when the [[List of disputed and unidentified Pokémon#In the games|Original Dragon]] split its essence into Reshiram and Zekrom, its purposeless body became Kyurem, which stayed inside the Giant Chasm. Kyurem awaited "a hero to fill its body with truth or ideals," presumably meaning a fusion with Reshiram or Zekrom. Vague words from [[Professor Juniper]] imply that the meteor mentioned in Lacunosa Town is similar to the Dark Stone{{sup/5|B2}}/Light Stone{{sup/5|W2}} in some way.

==={{p|Terrakion}}, {{p|Virizion}}, {{p|Cobalion}}, and {{p|Keldeo|Keldeo}}===
Long ago, two opposing human factions were at war, their strife resulting in a forest fire that threatened the lives of many [[wild Pokémon]]. Ensnared by the smoke, they could not escape, and their demise seemed certain until three figures appeared.

{{p|Terrakion}} shaped the earth and created a passage by which to escape, {{p|Virizion}} used its speed to shield the Pokémon from sparks and embers, while their leader, {{p|Cobalion}}, ushered Pokémon to safety.

Despite their attempts, they were unsuccessful, as the forest had been burned to the ground. However, amongst the ashes, the three came across a lone Pokémon, {{p|Keldeo|Keldeo}}, who they took in as their own.

The trio proceeded to fight back the armies, overwhelming them with their combined might. Legends of them continue to be told today, and it has been said that if human conflict ever again threatened the safety of Pokémon, they would return to quell the fighting and preserve a climate of peace.

==={{p|Thundurus}}, {{p|Tornadus}}, and {{p|Landorus}}===
Long ago, the Pokémon {{p|Thundurus}} and {{p|Tornadus}} began to fight, destroying the landscape in the process. {{p|Landorus}} then descended upon the two to end the dispute. It is said that should {{p|Tornadus}} and {{p|Thundurus}} ever fight again, {{p|Landorus}} will return to keep the peace.

In Pokémon Black 2 and White 2, it is said the Therian Formes of the forces of nature were the ones to fight, with Landorus coming to quell the harsh battle.

==={{p|Meloetta}}===
According to [[Unova]] artists, {{p|Meloetta}} long ago brought joy to the world through its beautiful melody and dance. The song and dance fill the people with joy. However, when sorrow darkened the world, Meloetta lost the melody it used to sing along, the ability to dance, and its red shoes. Meloetta's lost song was passed on by musicians, ensuring it lives on. Should Meloetta listen to this song, it will remember the lost melody and regain the {{m|Relic Song}} move.

==[[Kalos]]==
==={{p|Xerneas}}, {{p|Yveltal}}, and {{p|Zygarde}}===
{{p|Xerneas}} and {{p|Yveltal}} are great forces capable of giving and stealing life energy respectively. Xerneas shares life by glowing its horns in seven colors, while Yveltal's feathers near the gray pattern on its chest glow when it is about to steal life energy. When they are at the end of their lifespan, Xerneas releases all of its life energy into all the living things around it, while Yveltal expands its wings and steals all of the life energy of every living thing around it. Afterwards, they transform into a tree and a cocoon, respectively, to sleep for a thousand years. [[Zygarde Cell]]s are always monitoring the balance between Xerneas and Yveltal, and whenever it is disrupted or destroyed, a [[Zygarde Core]] will combine with its Cells and form {{p|Zygarde}} to unleash its wrath. These three Pokémon, according to [[Professor Sycamore]], are "incarnations of nature that take care of the land". Xerneas{{sup/6|X}}/Yveltal{{sup/6|Y}} both appeared during the ancient war between Kalos and another country either to rescue injured Pokémon from said conflict{{sup/6|X}}/taken away the life energy of Pokémon involved in conflict{{sup/6|Y}}. They showed up again 2,200 years later to either brighten{{sup/6|X}}/darken{{sup/6|Y}} the Kalos region with its power.

One of Professor Sycamore's theories state that the [[Mega Stones]] used in [[Mega Evolution]], originated from special stones, possibly [[Evolution stones]], that were irradiated by the light of Xerneas{{sup/6|X}}/Yveltal{{sup/6|Y}} fired from the [[Ultimate weapon]] 3,000 years ago. [[AZ]] used the power of Xerneas{{sup/6|X}}/Yveltal{{sup/6|Y}} to create the Ultimate weapon. First, he used the Legendary Pokémon's power to first revive his [[AZ#Floette|Floette]]. Next, he used the weapon to end the war by destroying both sides in revenge.

A Monsieur in [[Anistar City]] recounts the legends of Xerneas{{sup/6|X}}/Yveltal{{sup/6|Y}}:

===={{p|Xerneas}}====
:''"It happened around 800 years ago. The Pokémon known as Xerneas used its shining horns to illuminate the lands of Kalos. At that very moment, people and Pokémon throughout the land felt great energy and vitality surge through their bodies. At the same time, a vast forest sprang up, with Xerneas at its center. Legend has it that, when it nears the end of its thousand-year life span, Xerneas releases all of its remaining energy, sharing it with all living things nearby. There's another story I know that talks of the appearance of just such a fortuitous Pokémon. Back 3,000 years ago, the Kalos region was engulfed in a terrible war. So the tale goes, a Pokémon came to the rescue of all the wounded Pokémon that had been caught up in the conflict. Some people suspect the Pokémon that appeared was Xerneas, but there's no way to know. Maybe they just wished a Legendary Pokémon had come to the rescue to brighten a tale of woe. Supposedly, after Xerneas had released its remaining energy, it transformed into a dried-up tree. It remains in hiding deep within the forest. According to old tales, as I say. Stories and tales."''

===={{p|Yveltal}}====
:''"It happened around 800 years ago. The Pokémon known as Yveltal spread its ominous wings, engulfing the lands of Kalos in darkness. At that moment, people and Pokémon throughout the land began to fall one by one. Yveltal let out a piercing cry and took to the sky, vanishing to an unknown location. Stories say that when it nears the end of its thousand-year life span, Yveltal absorbs the life force of the living things around it in order to charge its own energy. Another tale talks of the appearance of just such a terrifying Pokémon. Back 3,000 years ago, the Kalos region was engulfed in a terrible war. According to the stories, a Pokémon appeared and stole the life force of countless living beings. Some people suspect the Pokémon that appeared was Yveltal, but there's no way to know. Maybe they're just using a Legendary Pokémon as a metaphor for war and pestilence. In the tales, after Yveltal finished storing the energy it had absorbed, it transformed into a kind of cocoon, remaining in hiding deep in the mountains. According to old tales, as I say. Tales and stories."''

==={{p|Hoopa}}===
According to a traveler at the [[Parfum Palace]], Hoopa is connected to many strange events and has mysterious powers. Hoopa Confined uses its three rings to move an object it wants. At Hoopa's full power, particularly its Unbound Form, it can increase the size of its rings to grow multiple miles in length. Said massive rings can transport entire islands. The lair of Hoopa is said to contain objects and treasures it obtained over the years, claiming as its own. One rumor of Hoopa's lair claims that there are mountains of gold and silver treasures stolen from ancient kings and wealthy land barons. Rumor has it that Hoopa's lair is inside an oasis in the desert. However, no one has ever found it. According to a tale, an organization tried to manipulate Hoopa for its power. In retaliation, Hoopa causes individual objects to disappear from the organization's lair. These objects were weapons, vehicles, and money. This action terrified the organization to the point they hid inside their headquarters. Once they did, the objects stopped disappearing. When the organization finally decided to leave its headquarters, they discovered that Hoopa had teleported their headquarters to the middle of the desert. Due to Hoopa's actions, the terrified organization disbanded as a result. A long, long time ago, Hoopa's true power was sealed within the [[Prison Bottle]] to prevent it from causing havoc.

==[[Alola]]==
===The [[Guardian deities|Guardian Deities]]===
According to the legends of [[Alola]], the Guardian deities served as protectors of the islands they reside in, and led the armies on each island. At one point in the past, they participated in a war against each other, while serving the royals of their representative island and using giant forms, which is seen through their signature z-move, {{m|Guardian of Alola}}. Due to the destruction the war brought, they stopped being involved in human wars. They occasionally fought to see who was the strongest, which led to the creation of the modern [[Battle Royal]] format, though it is said they prefer to spend time closed in their shells, absorbing nature's energy. Whenever an [[Ultra Beast]] appears in Alola, it is the duty of the deities to fiercely fight against it in order to protect their islands from invaders.

According to a book called "The Light of [[Alola]]" found in the upper floor of the Malie Library, {{p|Solgaleo}}{{sup/7|S}}{{sup/7|US}}/{{p|Lunala}}{{sup/7|M}}{{sup/7|UM}} emerged from an [[Ultra Wormhole]] and fought against the Guardian deities, starting a great battle in which neither side could win. Finding {{p|Solgaleo}}{{sup/7|S}}{{sup/7|US}}/{{p|Lunala}}{{sup/7|M}}{{sup/7|UM}} to be their equals, the island guardians bestowed the [[Tapunium Z]] upon them. Then along with Lunala{{sup/7|S}}{{sup/7|US}}/Solgaleo{{sup/7|M}}{{sup/7|UM}}, the pair proceeded to create the Nebula Pokémon known as {{p|Cosmog}} for the Tapus to protect and watch over until they fully evolved before returning to [[Ultra Space]].

According to the secret notes found hidden in the Malie Library, at one point, {{p|Necrozma}} the "Pillager of Light" invaded [[Alola]], stealing all of its light, and shrouding the region in darkness, the Tapus fought hard to regain back the light stolen, and through the assistance of a youth, and injection with the [[Z-Crystal]]s/[[Sparkling Stone]]s, proceeded to banish Necrozma from Alola, restoring light back to Alola while also freeing Solgaleo{{sup/7|US}}/Lunala{{sup/7|UM}} who had been absorbed by Necrozma.

==={{p|Solgaleo}}, {{p|Lunala}}, and {{p|Necrozma}}===
As said in an ancient legend on the [[SM074|origins of Alola]], the legendary trio brought light into the [[Alola]] region when it was first created. Ultra Necrozma's light shined the brightest of the trio, making the ancient people call it the "Blinding One". After sharing all of its light, Necrozma transformed and entered a deep slumber. Eventually, Solgaleo and Lunala returned and shared their light with Necrozma, restoring its light. Ultra Necrozma returned to [[Ultra Space]] afterwards. This lead to the creation of both [[Z-Move]]s and [[Z-Crystal]]s.

According to a book called "The Light of [[Alola]]" found in {{DL|Malie City|Malie Library}}, a {{p|Solgaleo}}{{sup/7|S}}{{sup/7|US}}/{{p|Lunala}}{{sup/7|M}}{{sup/7|UM}} appeared in [[Alola]] many years ago through an [[Ultra Wormhole]]. The ancient kings of Alola bowed down to the [[Legendary Pokémon]], worshipping it. The [[guardian deities]] battled it but were defeated by it, who then however gave the [[Tapunium Z]] to them as a reward. The Legendary Pokémon then created several {{p|Cosmog}} as heirs for Alola, giving the Guardian deities the task of watching over them until they have fully evolved. In gratitude, the kings of Alola gave their thanks with a song on the [[Sun Flute|Sun]] and [[Moon Flute]]s at the [[Altar of the Sunne]] {{sup/7|S}}{{sup/7|US}}/[[Altar of the Moone]] {{sup/7|M}}{{sup/7|UM}}, at which point the Legendary Pokémon returned to [[Ultra Space]].

Long ago in ancient times, Necrozma as the "Blinding One" once shared its light across [[Ultra Space]] and [[Alola]]. This led to the creation of [[Z-Move]]s and the aura that surrounds [[Totem Pokémon]]. However, the residents of [[Ultra Megalopolis]] attempted to control the Prism Pokémon in order to create light. This resulted in Necrozma being permanently injured, reducing it to a crystalline body while in constant pain. Pieces of its original body rained down onto Alola in the form of [[Sparkling Stone]]s. In retaliation, Necrozma stole all the light from Ultra Megalopolis, leaving that world forever in darkness. In response, the residents locked Necrozma in the [[Megalo Tower]] in order to prevent it from escaping.

Necrozma engages in an eternal struggle with Solgaleo and Lunala in its quest to steal their boundless light and restore its original Ultra form. The duo frequently confronts Necrozma throughout Ultra Space.<ref>[[Kazumasa Iwao]]: ''"These three are always struggling against one another in [[Ultra Space]]."'' Pokémon Ultra Sun & Pokémon Ultra Moon Edition: The Official National Pokédex (Pokemon (Prima Official Guide/Official Pokedex Guide))</ref> Whenever Necrozma absorbs light from others, Solgaleo and Lunala pursue it to reclaim the stolen energy. This ongoing conflict has created a delicate, cyclical balance among the three Pokémon.

According to the secret notes found hidden in the Malie Library, Necrozma invaded Alola and stole its light, causing the region to be covered in darkness. It fought fiercely against the guardian deities near [[Tapu Village]] and a Solgaleo{{sup/7|US}}/Lunala{{sup/7|UM}}. During which, it absorbed Solgaleo{{sup/7|US}}/Lunala{{sup/7|UM}} and transforms into {{DL|List of Pokémon with form differences|Necrozma|Dusk Mane}}{{sup/7|US}}/{{DL|List of Pokémon with form differences|Necrozma|Dawn Wings}}{{sup/7|UM}} Necrozma. When a youth came together with the Tapu and by using the power of the [[Z-Crystal]]s and [[Sparkling Stone]]s, they freed the Legendary Pokémon and banished Necrozma from Alola, bringing light back to it. Dubbed the "Pillager of Light" as a result of this moment in history, the king of Alola had all books mentioning Necrozma burned in order to prevent further panic.

==[[Galar]]==
===The [[Darkest Day]]===
Eternatus arrived in [[Galar]] inside of a meteor 20,000 years ago. The legendary heroes were said to have guarded [[Galar]] and were believed to be the rulers of the Galar region since ancient times. Both were referred to as the Fairy King's Sword and Fighting Master's Shield respectively, earning the respect of some and the fear of others. 3,000 years ago, the duo witnessed a [[Wishing Star]], from where {{p|Eternatus}} appears. As a result of Eternatus attempting to absorb Galar's energy to stay alive, a phenomenon known as the [[Darkest Day]] was said to have occurred. This black storm caused Pokémon to [[Dynamax]] and [[Gigantamax]] while going on rampages in the process. During this event, the legendary heroes would encounter [[Ancient Galarian kings|two youths]] wielding a sword and shield. Zacian and Zamazenta fought a hard battle against Eternatus, defeating it, before sealing it deep within the Galar region.

The two youths were crowned the kings of Galar for their role in the Darkest Day. However, due to receiving injuries from the fight, the Legendary duo retreated to the [[Slumbering Weald]]. They then transformed into statues before entering deep sleep, supposedly lasting for eons. Solid pieces of Eternatus's power rained down as [[Wishing Piece]]s, [[Wishing Chip]]s, and [[Wishing Star]]s. The legendary heroes also left behind the [[Rusted Sword]] and [[Rusted Shield]]. In time, the heroes became nearly forgotten due to slumbering for so long. The ancestors of the first kings of Galar covered up their history as well, replacing it with two young youths who saved Galar from the Darkest Day, as opposed to {{p|Zacian}} and {{p|Zamazenta}}.

==={{p|Kubfu}} and {{p|Urshifu}}===
Kubfu originated from a mountain region far away from [[Galar]]. It served as a guide for explorations to uncharted lands, where the descendants of Kubfu often settled. Some Kubfu eventually ended up at the [[Master Dojo]], where they became its "sacred armor" for those who completed the three trials. The [[Towers of Two Fists]] were built to allow Kubfu to evolve into {{p|Urshifu}}. Urshifu's Gigantamax forms are believed to have the power to cleanse the world of evil spirits.

==={{rf|Galarian}} [[legendary birds]]===
The three legendary birds migrate every 10 years to the Dyna Tree in the [[Crown Tundra]]. They feed on food from the tree when the sun reaches its zenith and shines directly on it. However, the three tend to clash with each other for the right to roost and feed on said tree. They were once believed to be the same as their Kantonian counterparts. Notably, their Pokédex entries seem to imply that they are not really forms of the legendary birds, but instead completely different Pokémon that just happen to look like them.

==={{p|Regieleki}} and {{p|Regidrago}}===
The duo was created by {{p|Regigigas}} using pure electric energy and crystallized dragon energy. They were later sealed away in the [[Split-Decision Ruins]] in [[Crown Tundra]] due to ancient people fearing them. The Split-Decision Ruins can only be unlocked when the three original [[legendary giants]] are gathered near it.

==={{p|Glastrier}} and {{p|Spectrier}}===
Depending on where the player plants the Carrot Seeds, one of the two Legendary Pokémon appears, and is stated to be the steed of {{p|Calyrex}}. Glastrier/Spectrier was known as a ruffian that once ruled over the [[Crown Tundra]] as lord of all Pokémon<ref>https://swordshield.pokemon.com/en-us/expansionpass/pokemon/united-by-their-bonds/</ref>. It was known to be proud and arrogant, and only followed those it deemed the strongest. Every now and then, the steed grew angry at humans for invading its territory, so it retaliates against the humans and their Pokémon with vengeance. It regularly terrorized the residents of [[Freezington]], a town located in the [[Crown Tundra]]. It ravaged and raided the food grown by the people, particularly the Carrot Seeds for the rare Iceroot Carrots/Shaderoot Carrots. Eventually, the horse was tamed by Calyrex who defeated the ruffian, which then became the King's loyal steed.

In gratitude, the villagers created the [[Reins of Unity]] which allowed Calyrex to fuse with its steed. When they combined for the first time, a forest was created from their union. Together, the duo spread greenery and harvest across the land of [[Galar]]. The duo resided in the [[Crown Shrine]] which was built by the villagers.

However, when the people began to lose faith in Calyrex, it became weak, and the steed abandoned it. It then went to the Crown Shrine, the former home of its partner, as a way of taunting it. It eventually faded into legend, and the people of the Crown Tundra wondered if the horse existed, and even what color it was.

==={{p|Calyrex|The King of Bountiful Harvests}}===
Calyrex once ruled all of [[Galar]] and later on, the [[Crown Tundra]], in ancient times as a benevolent king. It has the power to see every known past, present, and future event. It was known as "The King of Bountiful Harvests" as it brought lush vegetation and a good harvest to the land every year. Using its right hand can cause the land to be covered in verdant glass and blooms, while the left hand can make the fields of fruit ripen and heavy.

At one point, the [[Freezington]]'s people's ancestors met Calyrex when it was injured during a time when the Crown Tundra was barren and uninhabitable. It reacted in fear when the humans opened their palms, so they closed their palms in order to make Calyrex feel safe. The King Pokémon was then healed by humans living in the Crown Tundra. Upon being nursed back to its full strength, Calyrex emitted a dazzling blue light. Then in gratitude, Calyrex turns the frozen Tundra they lived in into a habitable land filled with lush and rich soil called the Crown Plains. This allowed the people to thrive successfully in the cold region.

This act earned the respect and loyalty of the people who worshiped it. They began to refer to Calyrex as a king. At one point, Calyrex saved the people again from {{p|Glastrier}}/{{p|Spectrier}}, a ruffian who was the lord of the Crown Tundra. This also gave rise to the tradition of giving it an offering in gratitude each year— the [[Reins of Unity]], which bonds Calyrex to the people it worshipped. The Reins of Unity were made by a [[Radiant Petal]] from Calyrex and mane hair from its loyal steed, Glastrier/Spectrier. The Reins of Unity allowed Calyrex to command {{p|Glastrier}}/{{p|Spectrier}} with ease. The villagers then created the [[Crown Shrine]] in order to give Calyrex and its royal steed a worthy home.

However, as time went by, people began to slowly forget about and lose faith in Calyrex. As Calyrex depends on the people's faith, it slowly lost its great power. Eventually, its steed abandoned it, leaving it with only a fraction of its power. Thus, Calyrex faded into legend and fairy tales. One such tale claims that Calyrex would steal the body of a person who misbehaved.

Pedestals inscribed with the story of Calyrex are found throughout the Crown Tundra:

[[Giant's Foot]] 
May 7 
Once, these lusciously green lands of ours lay barren. The grass wilted. Our crops withered. This was a tundra shrouded in frigid cold. Many days into a bleak winter, a Pokémon appeared on the tundra—adorned with a regal crown yet wounded and weak. Full of pity, our people brought the Pokémon to our village and saw to its care.

[[Ballimere Lake]] 
August 18 
Under the care of our ancestors’ healing ways, the visitor's wounds mended. It shrank back in fear if approached with open palms, so all kept their hands closed in its presence. Once it regained its full strength, the visitor emitted a dazzling blue light that breathed life back into our wilted fields, blessing them with the promise of harvests once more. Perhaps this was its way of showing its gratitude.

[[Old Cemetery]] 
November 30 
Green flourished once more around our village, and rich soil began to spread. Vast lands lay open for farming once more. The village folk began to call the visitor a king in appreciation. Our village had long been plagued by a ruffian that ran rampant through the fields, devouring crops as it pleased. But the king, resplendent in its full power, suddenly spoke to us in our tongue, vowing to rein in the ruffian.

[[Giant's Bed]] 
January 2 
Before long, the ruffian had bent its knees to the king and become its loyal steed. Our people's faith in the king grew firm and unwavering. Our ancestors built a temple around the sacred sapling atop a tall mountain to give the king a worthy home. Moreover, they crafted a set of reins to let the king command its proud steed with ease.

[[Snowslide Slope]] 
April 21 
The king brought abundance and life to this land that was once frozen tundra. We owe these very Crown Plains to our king. As long as the bond between us people and our king holds strong, these lands will no doubt thrive for all time in fertile green.

==[[Lental]]==
===[[Illumina phenomenon|Illumina Pokémon]]===
According to legend, the [[Lental]] region was protected by the Illumina Pokémon, seven powerful Pokémon guarding the region: {{p|Meganium}}, {{p|Wishiwashi}}, {{p|Milotic}}, two {{p|Volcarona}}, {{p|Steelix}}, and {{p|Xerneas}}. 2,000 years ago, when a meteorite threatened to destroy Lental, Xerneas formed a shield around the region to protect it. The process left it exhausted, so Xerneas lay dormant in the [[Ruins of Remembrance]] on [[Aurus Island]] for many years until someone who loves Pokémon appears. The other Illumina Pokémon went to sleep as well and faded into legend. The Illumina Pokémon would only awaken and appear when a person who loves Pokémon appears before them.

==[[Paldea]]==
==={{p|Koraidon}} and {{p|Miraidon}}===
According to legends and the [[Pokédex]], the Legendary duo is believed to be versions of Cyclizar from the distant past and the far future, respectively. However, they are said to be more aggressive and powerful than Cyclizar. They have been referred to as the ''Winged King'' and the ''Iron Serpent'', respectively, from the ancient books.

===[[Treasures of ruin]]===
According to [[Raifort]]'s research on history from various sources, four treasures were collected by a king which led to the kingdom's destruction. Once upon a time during the Paldean Empire, there was a wicked king who loved to collect treasures, particularly ones from other countries. Eventually, a merchant from the East came to visit the rumored King. The merchant would show the king a set of four ancient treasures. These treasures consist of a vessel, a broken sword, a set of tablets, and a set of beads. The king was happy to see such wonderful treasures before him. He paid the merchant golden coins before obtaining the treasures for himself.

Unknown to the king, the treasures held a curse. These four treasures had been passed from person to person for a very long time and had become corrupted by the negative emotions of humanity's hubris and greed. These negative emotions would be fear, hatred, grudges, and envy. Upon being exposed to the Paldean King's greed, the built-up negativity in the treasures awakened, transforming them into four Pokémon: {{p|Ting-Lu}}, {{p|Chien-Pao}}, {{p|Wo-Chien}}, and {{p|Chi-Yu}}. By the dawn of the next day, these four Pokémon had reduced the king's castle to rubble. They have been collectively referred to as the treasures of ruin.

The treasures of ruin also had titles, and each formed a different negative emotion. Chien-Pao was the "Sword of Ruin" due to possibly the broken sword's blade and hilt forming the twin fangs. It was formed from the hatred of those the sword killed long ago. Ting-Lu was the "Vessel of Ruin" due to the ritual vessel that is in place of a head. The fear formed it poured into the ritual vessel. Wo-Chien was the "Tablets of Ruin" due to being formed by many wooden writing tablets fused. It was formed from the grudge of a scribe punished for writing down the king's wicked deeds. Finally, Chi-Yu was the "Beads of Ruin" due to the beads being used for possible religious rituals and to ward off disasters. It was formed from the envy of people who waged wars over the beads in the past.

As a result, these incarnations of disasters proceed to run rampant in an uncontrollable rage. The king proceeded to call for well-known Pokémon wielders of that time to stop the treasures of ruin. After engaging in a fierce battle to protect the ruined country, these Pokémon were defeated and calmed. The four were then sealed in their respective shrines located through Paldea such as [[Socarrat Trail]], [[West Province (Area One)]], [[South Province (Area One)]], and [[North Province (Area Two)]]. The ancient Pokémon wielders used eight sacred stakes each for the seals and scattered them around the region to keep the four safely locked away. The only way to free the treasures of ruin is to remove the stakes by someone who has a pure heart and a strong bond with Pokémon.

===The [[Explorers]] and [[Laqua]]===
100 year ago, an adventurer named [[Lucius]] alongside his [[Black Rayquaza]] travelled all over the {{Pkmn|world}} through different [[region]]s seeking a mysterious Pokémon paradise told in fairytales, [[Laqua]]. At some point, he also got a copy of [[Heath]]'s [[Scarlet Book]], which granted him knowledge about {{P|Terapagos}}. While visiting a city during his travels, he saved another adventurer named [[Rystal]], as she was being chased by thieves who wanted her {{p|Terapagos}}, [[Pagogo]]. Since then, she joined Lucius in his quest. During their next travels, Lucius met and caught five other Pokémon: an {{TP|Lucius|Arboliva}}, a {{rf|Galarian}} {{TP|Lucius|Moltres}}, a {{TP|Lucius|Lapras}}, a {{TP|Lucius|Kleavor}}, and a {{TP|Lucius|Gouging Fire}}, who alongside Rayquaza, came to be known as the [[Six Heroes]]. At some point of their journey, Rystal became pregnant with a daughter by Lucius. While the two were looking for more information on Laqua, a couple started mocking them for being adults and still believing in Laqua, but another adventurer named [[Gibeon]] defended them by showing every record and data of Laqua. Since then, he joined them in their quest alongside his {{Shiny|White}} {{P|Zygarde}}.

After the trio founded the [[Explorers]], as the three original members, they managed to find and reach Laqua, located 100 days and 100 nights away from Paldea, thanks to Lucius's Rayquaza. They explored Laqua together and found many [[Legendary Pokémon]] living peacefully there. As they looked deeper, they discovered plants overgrowing to the point of causing huge damage to the paradise's environment. Looking further in, they discovered a cluster of pink crystals that'd be later named [[Laquium]], which are stimulating the growth of the plants around it. While Lucius and Rystal decided to leave Laqua, concerned of the Laquium's effect on them, Gibeon chose to stay and use his Zygarde in an attempt to dig the Laquium out, fascinated with its power beyond human comprehension. However, in response, the crystals started expanding and spreading out its mist in the air, creating cracks on the ground, making [[wild Pokémon]] go feral, and growing plants far beyond their limit. Fearing this might destroy the world, Lucius releases his Six Heroes, however, their efforts are in vain. Gibeon's Zygarde even goes against its trainer's orders and sacrifices its [[Zygarde Cell|Cells]] in an attempt to seal it away, which also fails, causing it to lose its 50% Forme and for Gibeon to fall into a crack as a result. Lucius and Rystal's determination prompts Pagogo to change into its {{Form|Terapagos|Stellar Form}} and use the Six Heroes to seal away all the Laquium crystal and mist inside a giant shield. As a result, Lucius is left stuck in Laqua, the Six Heroes and their Poké Balls are scattered around the world by an explosion, and Terapagos falls into a 100 years hibernation; however, Rystal managed to leave the paradise with Pagogo in the form of a pendant, but kept all this history from her daughter {{OBP|Layla|Horizons}}.

==={{p|Terapagos|The hidden treasure of Area Zero}}===
According to legends, research by the Area Zero expedition team, and the [[Pokédex]], Terapagos was once an ancient species that existed in the [[Paldea]] [[region]] about two million years ago. However, it supposedly went extinct due to seismic shifts that also created the [[Area Zero Underdepths]]. Unknown to anyone, [[Terapagos (game)|one specimen]] survived the event by crystallizing its own body, getting trapped underground and proceeding to enter a deep hibernation. One million years later, the [[Great Crater of Paldea]] and [[Area Zero]] were formed supposedly due to the same seismic shifts.

998,000 years after the crater was formed, the emperor of the Paldean Empire started the Great Age of Exploration to find Terapagos, that was known as the Hidden Treasure of Area Zero. Despite the many expeditions, no one was able to find Terapagos as it kept slumbering there. The Paldean Empire collapsed after 1,000 years of the wasted expense of support or countless failed Area Zero expeditions. Thus, Terapagos and Area Zero remain a mystery.

About 200 years ago, the Area Zero Exploration Team would be the first to reach the bottom of Area Zero. At one point while exploring the depths of Area Zero, one of its members [[Heath]] strayed from his team and fell into Area Zero Underdepths unconscious. When he woke up, he encountered Terapagos and gave the Legendary Pokémon its name. He would later write his notes on it through the [[Scarlet Book]]{{sup/9|S}}/[[Violet Book]]{{sup/9|V}}. However, for reasons unknown, Heath will cover the evidence on Terapagos in copies except the original. People also accused Heath and his team of making up Terapagos and the other discoveries in Area Zero. So the whole team was discredited.

140 years to the present day, the [[Terastal phenomenon]] was discovered, having been created by Terapagos during the years it slumbers, and crystals form over time. However, there was no way to remove the discovery outside of the crater without it disappearing. Terpagos was later seen by Professor Sada{{sup/9|S}}/Professor Turo{{sup/9|V}} 10 years before the present day who researched it during their stay in Area Zero.

==[[Kitakami]]==
===[[Loyal Three]]===
There are two legends of the Royal Three for their role in Kitakami's history. The false legend is based on the villager's story. Plus, the actual legend is based on the mask maker's story.

According to the villagers of [[Kitakami]], the Loyal Three were once normal Pokémon. Okidogi was small and weak, Munkidori clumsy and dim-witted, and Fezandipiti had short, dull feathers. However, one day their wishes led them to obtain purple chains made of toxins, granting them respectively from a Pokémon name {{p|Pecharunt}}. Okidogi received a powerful physique by stimulating their muscles, Munkidori received psychic powers due to the brain being stimulated, and Fezandipiti became more beautiful along with a lovely voice.
;False Legend
According to the false legend, the trio of {{p|Okidogi}}, {{p|Munkidori}}, and {{p|Fezandipiti}} were visiting [[Kitakami]] when an enraged Ogerpon appeared to terrorize the village. The trio bravely sacrifice themselves to drive the ogre back into the [[Oni Mountain]]. In gratitude, they were named the '''Loyal Three''' and the '''Heroes of Kitakami''' in honor of their sacrifice. They were then given a proper burial at the '''Loyal Three Mounument''' in Loyalty Plaza, and statues based on the trio were created for them. The Festival of Masks is celebrated every year to honor the Loyal Three. The villagers believed worshiping the trio would grant them kindness, success, and good luck. Plus, it helped ensure the people that things will be 'okey-dokey', hunky-dory, and serendipitous in the end.

;True Legend
According to the ancient mask maker, the Royal Three were a group of three greedy Pokémon that stole treasures for themselves and their master {{p|Pecharunt}}. Long ago, the trio and their master traveled from a distant land into [[Kitakami]]. The reason was due to they had heard rumors about four exquisite, shining masks being seen in the land. Wanting to steal the masks for themselves, they located the owners of the said masks, it was a man and Ogerpon who came from a foreign land, residing in the [[Dreaded Den]]. While Ogerpon was away, the trio sneaked into the cave to steal the masks, only for the man to confront them. After attacking the man, the trio makes off with the Wellspring Mask, the Hearthflame Mask, and the Cornerstone Mask. However, the man managed to retain the Teal Mask. Several hours later, as the three Pokémon were gloating over the masks they stole, Ogerpon discovered them. Realizing what they have done, a vengeful Ogerpon kills them in retaliation. Unfortunately, the nearby villagers misunderstood the situation. They mistakenly believed the three Pokémon had died protecting their home from a terrifying, rampaging "ogre". Because of their "sacrifice", the villagers honored them with the name the Loyal Three, treating them with care. Because of this, the wounded Ogerpon returned to her cave alone in sorrow. The bodies of the Loyal Three were then buried in a monument dedicated to them, erected on top of a hill near the village. The surrounding area was named the Loyal Three Park, later renamed Loyalty Plaza.

Only the village mask maker knew what happened. When he tried to explain it, the other villagers refused to believe him, calling him a heretic as a result. To protect his family, he kept the truth hidden from everyone except his family to avoid the village's wrath. The family then passed the truth down to their descendants as a closely, guarded family secret. Meanwhile, the Loyal Three were unjustly honored as heroes by the people of Kitakami for generations. They do this through the Festival of Masks.

==={{p|Ogerpon}}===
Ogerpon has two legends to it. The false legend is based on the villagers' story, while the true version of the legend is based on the mask maker's story.

;False Legend
According to the folks of Kitakami, Ogerpon was a fearsome ogre that resided in the land of [[Kitakami]], living in the [[Oni Mountain]]. It has access to the elements of grass, fire, water, and stone through its masks. It regularly terrorizes anyone who enters the [[Dreaded Den]]. One fateful day, Ogerpon emerged from the mountain in a terrifying rage, its presence causing great fear. Luckily, a trio of Pokémon called {{p|Okidogi}}, {{p|Munkidori}}, and {{p|Fezandipiti}} were near the village it appeared in. At the cost of their lives, they drove Ogerpon back into the Oni Mountain. The trio were able to steal three masks from the ogre, weakening Ogerpon in the progress. The masks were then stored away at the Kitakami Hall for safekeeping.

There is a tale where a human should be wary if they see a shadowy figure approach Kitakami at twilight. If they see the shadow, they must put on a mask to hide their face. If the shadow is a man or a monster, they will be safe thanks to the mask hiding their identity. However, if one meets the shadow without a mask, one must pray it is just a man. If it is one of those two, they will live to see another day, never forgetting to wear a mask during the night. If the shadow is the ogre, the person will meet their end. By seeing Ogerpon's face, the person's life is forfeited, unable to return to Kitakami.
;True Legend
According to the mask masker, Ogerpon was a kind and gentle Pokémon. The duo traveled from an unknown land into Kitakami. However, the dup were shunned by the people of Kitakami due to their strange appearance. As a result, the duo settled down with living in the [[Dreaded Den]], in the nearby [[Oni Mountain]], separating them from the villagers. Luckily, the village mask-maker took pity on the pair. He proceeded to craft four beautiful masks for them. The masks were created from brilliant jewels he brought from the [[Paldea]] region. This allowed the duo to hide their true face, blending in with the villagers. The man and Ogerpon were in gratitude for the mask masker's kindness. The duo then participated in the village festival. The pair became famous in Kitakami as a result. The main reason was due to the villagers often talking about their brilliant masks.

However, their fame would ultimately bring tragedy and trouble. One fateful day, three greedy Pokémon along with their master: Okidogi, Munkidori, Fezandipiti, and Pecharunt traveled to Kitakami due to the rumors of four brilliant masks. Upon finding the Dreaded Den in Oni Mountain, the trio ambushed Ogerpon's companion, managing to steal all but the Teal Mask. When Ogerpon returned several hours later, there was no trace of the mysterious man. All that remained were signs of a struggle and the Teal Mask.

Ogerpon puts on the Teal Mask and travels to Kitakami to find its missing friend. Instead, it found Okidogi, Munkidori, and Fezandipiti gloating about the stolen masks they took from Ogerpon's friend. Filled with deep rage, Ogerpon attacked and defeated the three Pokémon in revenge. However, while consumed in deep anger, Ogerpon unwittingly made the villagers fear it even more. This misunderstanding leads the villagers to believe the trio gave up their lives to drive away Ogerpon. Thus, Okidogi, Munkidori, and Fezandipiti were honored by the misguided villagers. The villagers renamed the trio as the Loyal Three. Ashamed of its actions, Ogerpon returned to the Dreaded Den alone and filled with great sadness. It would spend many years alone ever since.

The mask maker tried to tell the truth about what happened. Instead, he was met with disbelief by the villagers, calling him a heretic. Thus, he had no choice but to keep the truth hidden. He did it to protect his family from the village's wrath. This became a closely guarded family secret for his descendants. Ogerpon is honored as a villain during the Festival of Masks.

==[[Region#Unnamed locations|Unknown region]]==
This section is for myths and legends that are not related to any specific region.

===[[Sinjoh Ruins]]===
Hundreds of years ago in an unknown region, the Sinjoh Ruins were built by two different groups of people. One group originated from [[Sinnoh]] while the second originated from [[Johto]]. The ruins contained an element of both [[Spear Pillar]] and [[Ruins of Alph]] along with the culture of both regions. The former temple was built to honor {{p|Arceus}}, the [[Pokémon of Myth]], and the {{p|Unown}}.

==={{p|Meltan}} and {{p|Melmetal}}===
According to the ancient texts and research by [[Professor Willow]], {{p|Melmetal}} existed 3,000 years ago living in a secluded place filled with sedimentary rocks rich containing magnetite. It was worshipped for the ability to create iron out of nothing, which was used to create special and unique metal tools. At some point, Melmetal reached its life's end and rusted before splitting into multiple {{p|Meltan}}. Its followers wanted to keep the Meltan safe, so they placed them into the [[Mystery Box]], serving as the only way for Melmetal to return. The box can only be unlocked when air from any natural environment is exposed.

Legends from a distant land, perhaps the same one where Meltan and Melmetal originated from, speak of a cyclopean giant, however, the giant was in reality a Melmetal that that was flooded with [[Galar particle|Dynamax energy]] and became [[Gigantamax|Gigantamaxed]].

==={{p|Pecharunt}}===
This story on Pecharunt is an untold tale in the land of [[Kitakami]]. A long time ago, in a faraway land, lived an old married couple. The old couple had no children of their own. Instead, they had chosen to take care of a small, timid [[Mythical Pokémon]] named Pecharunt. The old couple loved and cared deeply for Pecharunt. Desiring more of their affection, Pecharunt created Binding Mochi through the poison within its body. By feeding them the Binding Mochi, the old couple became enthralled by its delicious taste and fell under Pecharunt's control. The Binding Mochi it made drew out the greed of the old couple who consumed it. Afterward, the couple constantly asks Pechraunt for requests and little things. Eager to gain more love from the couple's wishes, Pecharunt used the Binding Moichi and Toxic Chains to tame a smaller and weaker Pokémon. As a result, the Pokémon turns into the muscular {{p|Okidogi}}, the first of Pecharunt's retainers. It then commanded Okidogi to deliver the gifts to the couple tomorrow morning. These deeds allowed the couple's love for Pecharunt to grow even more.

One fateful day, the old couple makes a peculiar request for Pecharunt. They requested Pecharunt bring them [[:en:Category:Masks|a brilliant set of masks]], rumored to be found the land of [[Kitakami]]. Pecharunt was eager to do the request, having grown tired of completing the same, old requests. Pecharunt proceeds to leave the village for Kitakami along with Okidogi, very eager to grant the couple's wish. Needing an additional companion, Pecharunt used the Binding Mochi and Toxic Chains to tame a clumsy, dim-witted Pokémon. This Pokémon became the clever {{p|Munkidori}} who had the power to see into the near future. It also became Pecharunt's second retainer. Still worried for its safety, Pecharunt used its power again to tame a Pokémon with short, dull feathers into becoming its third retainer. This bird Pokémon transformed into the beautiful {{p|Fezandipiti}} who had the power to expel mesmerizing pheromones. Now feeling safe and secure, Pecharunt and its [[Loyal Three|three retainers]] begin their journey to Kitakami. The journey took them through fields, mountains, and seas before finally reaching their destination.

Hiding in the woods during the annual Kitakami festival, Pecharunt and its retainers witness two figures with glittering masks. The duo was [[Ogerpon (game)|Ogerpon]] and its partner. As a result, Pecharunt finds the owners of the masks it seeks. During the evening, the cautious Pecharunt had Munkidori track down where the two lived. Upon reaching the [[Dreaded Den]] of [[Oni Mountain]], it commanded Okidogi and Fezandipiti to sneak into the cave to obtain the four masks while Ogerpon and its partner were away. Before the duo could leave with the stolen masks, Ogerpon's partner returned and attacked the intruders to reclaim the stolen masks. Okidogi and Fezandipiti had no choice but to fight back. Eventually, the duo escaped and returned to Pecharunt and Munkidori with three masks, while the [[Teal Mask]] remained with the injured man. The thieving Pokémon ran away to a hidden spot.

At that moment, Pecharunt was pleased the glittering masks belonged to it. Finally, Pecharunt felt it could return home to the old couple and that they would love it even more. However, its joy quickly faded away when the vengeful Ogerpon arrived for revenge for their actions. The panicked Pecharunt used its Binding Mochi to command its retainers to defend and defeat the enraged Ogerpon. Despite their best attempt and numbers, they could not stop Ogerpon's terrifying rampage. Ogerpon proceeds to defeat Pecharunt's retainers, killing them in the process. As Ogerpon drew near, the terrified Pecharunt accepted that its fate was sealed and that it lost everything. Ogerpon launched a final aerial strike to injure Pecharunt. While it launches through the air, Pecharunt used the last of its reaming energy to withdraw into its shell.

The shell fell and proceeded to roll and roll until it stopped in the nearby forest. According to the final part of the tale, Pecharunt is still out there, resting and waiting for the day it will awaken and fulfill the old couple's wish at last. At some point, the old lady found the sleeping Pecharunt and placed it in her store; {{DL|Mossui Town|Peachy's}} at [[Mossui Town]], having mistaken it for a decoration. As the years go by, the people of Kitakami call this mysterious declaration the Never-Rotting Peach.<ref name="website">[https://scarletviolet.pokemon.com/en-us/pokemon/pecharunt/ Pecharunt | Pokémon Scarlet and Pokémon Violet]</ref>

==References==
<references/>

==Related articles==
*[[Legendary Pokémon]]
*[[Mythical Pokémon]]
*[[Sinnoh myths]]
*[[History of the Pokémon world]]

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[[Category:Pokémon world]]
[[Category:Legendary Pokémon|*]]
[[Category:Mythical Pokémon|*]]
[[Category:Pokémon myths]]

[[es:Mitos del mundo Pokémon]]
[[it:Miti e leggende dei Pokémon leggendari e misteriosi]]

Myths and legends involving Legendary and Mythical Pokémon

2025-07-10T09:02:31Z

Neos: /* The hidden treasure of Area Zero */ Concistency in timeline of events, the expedition to area zero was not 996,800 years ago, it was 996,800 years after the formation of the great crater of paldea

Throughout the [[Pokémon world]] and across many [[region]]s, a number of myths and legends have been recorded about {{pkmn2|Legendary}} and {{pkmn2|Mythical}} {{OBP|Pokémon|species}}.

==[[Orange Islands]]==
===[[Shamouti Island]]===
[[File:Fire Lightning Ice Islands.png|thumb|250px|Fire Island, Lightning Island, and Ice Island, as seen in ''[[M02|The Power of One]]'']]
An ancient prophecy circulates around the [[Orange Islands]] that says:

====Original====
{| width:100%
! Japanese
! English
|-
| <ab>{{tt|火の神、雷の神、氷の神に触れずべからず。|hi no kami, kaminari no kami, koori no kami ni fureru bekarazu}}
{{tt|されば、天地怒り世界は破滅に向かう。|sareba, tenchi ikari, sekai wa hametsu ni mukau}}
{{tt|海の神、破滅を救わんと現れん。|umi no kami, hametsu wo sukuwan to arawaren}}
{{tt|されど、世界の破滅を防ぐことならず。|saredo, sekai no hametsu wo fusegu koto narazu}}
{{tt|すぐれたるあやつり人現れ、神々の怒り静めん限り…。|suguretaru ayatsuribito araware, kamigami no ikari shizumen kagiri}}</ab>
| <ab>''The god of fire, god of lightning, and god of ice must not be touched.
Else, heaven and earth will be angered and the world will face destruction.
The god of the sea will appear to stop the destruction.
But, it will not prevent the world's destruction.
Unless an exceptional trainer appears to calm the wrath of the gods....</ab>
|}

====English dub====
: Disturb not the harmony of {{p|Moltres|Fire}}, {{p|Articuno|Ice}}, or {{p|Zapdos|Lightning}}
: Lest these Titans wreak destruction
: Upon the world in which they clash

: Though {{p|Lugia|the Water's Great Guardian}} shall arise to quell the fighting
: Alone its song will fail
: Thus the earth shall turn to ash

: O [[Chosen One]]
: Into thine hands bring together all three
: Their treasures combined tame the Beast of The Sea
: From the trio of islands, ancient spheres shall you take
: For between life and death, all the difference you'll make
: Climb to the shrine to right what is wrong
: And the world shall be healed by the Guardian's song...

A festival is held on [[Shamouti Island]] to honor the Chosen One.

==[[Johto]]==
===The [[Burned Tower|Brass]] and [[Bell Tower]]s===
[[File:Ecruteak City Landscape.png|thumb|right|250px|The [[Burned Tower|burned Brass Tower]] and [[Bell Tower]] in [[Ecruteak City]]]]

There's a legend that has been passed down by {{ci|Ecruteak}} [[Gym Leader]]s for many years:

:''Two towers... Two Pokémon... But when one burned down, both Pokémon flew away, never to return.''

700 years before the events of [[Generation II]], the people of Ecruteak built two nine-tier towers with the hopes of fostering friendship and hope between Pokémon and [[humans]]. They were the [[Burned Tower|Brass Tower]] in the west, which was said to awaken Pokémon, and the [[Bell Tower]] in the east, where Pokémon were said to rest. Both towers became the roost of powerful flying Pokémon {{p|Lugia}} and {{p|Ho-Oh}} respectively with Lugia residing at Brass Tower while Ho-oh for the Bell. Both birds were said to be the guardian of the skies and seas. A friendship of harmony was formed between the people who communicated with the two legendary birds.

However, about 150 years before the games' events, something terrible happened as the town was bathed in the moonlit night. Lugia's peaceful rest was disturbed by a lightning storm that grew until a powerful lightning bolt struck the Brass Tower. It was engulfed in flames that raged for three days. Lugia at first tried to use the winds to stop the flame, but it threatened to destroy the town in the process. So Lugia decided to call upon rain to battle the fire until the blaze was finally extinguished, but it had already burnt to the ground. [[List of disputed and unidentified Pokémon#Original Legendary beasts|Three nameless]] Pokémon perished in the fire, but Ho-Oh descended from the sky and resurrected them. The Pokémon are said to embody three powers: the {{p|Raikou|lightning}} that struck the tower, the {{p|Entei|fire}} that burned the tower, and the {{p|Suicune|rain}} that put out the fire. When the Pokémon appeared, they struck awe and terror in those who saw their rise. The reason was the people feared Ho-Oh's power to manipulate life and try to use violence on the [[Legendary beasts]]. The three Pokémon, knowing their own power, and choosing not to retaliate, fled, [[roaming Pokémon|running like the wind]] off into the grassland to avoid being harmed by the townspeople of Ecruteak City. It is believed that the Legendary beasts will return only when the trio is ready to trust humans again.

Ho-Oh and Lugia haven't been seen since the fire. Ho-Oh fled due to the violence of the people who feared its power. Lugia fled due to being overwhelmed by the distress caused by fire damaging the Brass Tower and decided to live in the ocean's depths. According to legend, when the souls of Pokémon and humans commune, upon the emergence of a Trainer who has the ability to touch the souls of Pokémon, Ho-Oh will return from the heavens. While Lugia is said to return to the Ecruteak City only when some pure heart appears before it. The Brass Tower is left the way it is as a reminder of what can be lost and regained.

A similar legend is addressed in {{aniseries|PTS}}. In the {{aniseries|GS|''Gold and Silver'' series}} episode ''[[EP181|A Ghost of a Chance]]'', [[Morty]] says the two towers are the original [[Bell Tower|Tin Tower]], which burned down, and a rebuilt one. He says that invaders came and tried to steal Ho-Oh, who resisted and fled, and then they burned down the tower. When the legend is revisited in ''[[EP227|For Ho-Oh the Bells Toll!]]'', however, the story more closely parallels the game version, but the war aspect remains. [[Ash Ketchum]] seems to fulfill the prophecy as a Trainer who has the ability to touch the souls of Pokémon, as he has encountered both Ho-Oh and Suicune several times.

===[[Eon duo|The Guardians]] of the [[Alto Mare|Water Capital]]===
The island city of [[Alto Mare]]'s history is intertwined with the following tale:

{| width="100%"
|-
! width="50%" | Japanese
! width="50%" | English
|-
| lang="ja" | 昔々、アルトマーレという島におじいさんとおばあさんがいました。
| A long time ago on an island called [[Alto Mare]] there lived an old man and a woman.
|-
| lang="ja" | ある日、二人は海岸で、小さな兄弟がけがをしているのを見つけました。
| One day, they found two wounded children on the seaside.
|-
| lang="ja" | おじいさんとおばあさんの手厚い看護で二人がみるみる良くなっていきました。
| With the old couple's careful nursing, the children got better quickly.
|-
| lang="ja" | しかし突然、邪悪な怪物が島を攻めてきたのです。
| But then suddenly an evil monster appeared and attacked the city.
|-
| lang="ja" | 島はたちまち怪物に飲み込まれました。
| The island was instantly swallowed up by the monster.
|-
| lang="ja" | と、その時、おじいさんとおばあさんの目の前で二人の姿は変わっていきました。
| But then before the man's and the woman's eyes, the children transformed.
|-
| lang="ja" | 二人は夢幻ポケモン、ラティオスとラティアスだったのです。
| They were the mirage Pokémon {{p|Latias}} and {{p|Latios}}.
|-
| lang="ja" | 二匹は空から仲間を呼び寄せました。
| The two of them called their friends from the sky.
|-
| lang="ja" | 彼らは、邪悪な闇を追い払う力を持って来てくれました。
| They brought the power to drive away the evil darkness.
|-
| lang="ja" | それは、「心のしずく」という宝石だったのです。
| That power was a jewel called the [[Soul Dew]].
|-
| lang="ja" | 島には平和が戻りました。
| Peace returned to the island.
|-
| lang="ja" | それからというもの、「心のしずく」のあるこの島に、ラティオスとラティアスはしばしば立ち寄るようになりました。
| And after that, Latias and Latios often visited this island, where the Soul Dew is.
|
|-
| lang="ja" | この島が邪悪な怪物に襲われる事はその後、二度とありませんでした。
| The island was never attacked again by the evil monster.
|}

Note: The legend sequence was cut from the dub version of the [[M05|movie]], so there is no official English translation.

===[[Whirl Islands]]===
The [[Whirl Islands]] used to be one large island, but at some point, in time two countries began fighting over the island. Lugia, the guardian of the then singular Whirl Island, got upset and cast lightning bolts that tore the island into four pieces. Lugia then disappeared into the deep end of the waterfall basin, longing for the invisible trust between people and Pokémon to manifest once more.

===[[Embedded Tower]]===
A long time ago, people from the [[Hoenn]] region came to visit the [[Johto]] region. The people built a very tall tower on [[Johto Route 47|Route 47]]. This tower was built in honor of the [[Super-ancient Pokémon]]. The tower connects to the sky, part of the cliff, and deep into the ocean. The Legendary Pokémon are said to appear at the Embedded Tower when the respective [[Colored orbs]] are brought inside it.

==[[Hoenn]]==
==={{p|Regirock}}, {{p|Regice}}, and {{p|Registeel}}===
In addition to the Unown, Braille has also been used to tell legends. In {{3v2|Ruby|Sapphire|Emerald}}, the {{player}} can use the Braille to uncover {{p|Regirock}}, {{p|Regice}}, and {{p|Registeel}}.

The legend, found on various rocks in the [[Sealed Chamber]], reads:

: <sc>In this cave we have lived.</sc>
: <sc>We owe all to the Pok</sc>é<sc>mon.</sc>
: <sc>But, we sealed the Pok</sc>é<sc>mon away.</sc>
: <sc>We feared it.</sc>
: <sc>Those with courage, those with hope.</sc>
: <sc>Open a door. An eternal Pok</sc>é<sc>mon waits.</sc>

Because the message is in singular instead of plural, it is possible that the Pokémon being referred to is {{p|Regigigas}}, and that the people of [[Snowpoint City]] wanted to seal Regigigas away, and created three keys, the [[legendary giants]], that had to be obtained to awaken Regigigas. To make it as hard as possible to reawaken Regigigas, the people of Snowpoint City sealed the legendary giants away in [[Hoenn|another region]]. Otherwise, since Regigigas didn't exist yet when the games were made, it might refer to the three Regi's separately or a hint that meant that Regigigas will come back then.

==={{P|Kyogre}}, {{P|Groudon}}, and {{P|Rayquaza}}===
The legend of the Super-ancient Pokémon was passed down by the [[Draconid people|Draconids]] tribe who have witnessed this history.

Thousands of years ago during the lost primal age when the [[Hoenn]] region was filled with natural primal energy, {{p|Kyogre|Primal Kyogre}} and {{p|Groudon|Primal Groudon}} were created from said energy.<ref>[[Zinnia]]: ''"Thousands of years ago, in the primal age long lost, the world was overflowing with natural energy. Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre fought over that energy in endless, furious clashes."'' ([[Pokémon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire]])</ref>. There are legends when the duo have saved the region from respective droughts and floods with their power. However, the duo were known to engage in violent and endless battles with each other in order to obtain the primal energy for themselves. The reason is due to being the embodiments of nature, they are compelled to seek it out despite the risk of losing control for absorbing too much. During this, Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre created the land and sea of the [[Hoenn]] region as a result of these clashes. Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre recieved their names from the people they tormented during their endless clashes.<ref>[https://web.archive.org/web/20150208024506/http://www.pokemonrubysapphire.com/en-us/pokemon/legendary-pokemon/primal-groudon-and-primal-kyogre | Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre | Official Site | Pokémon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire]</ref>

The people living in the Hoenn were helpless to stop these ancient clashes as disaster after disaster kept emerging. During this time, meteorites fell into the [[Meteor Falls]] where the Draconids, {{type|Dragon}} users lived. Some of these meteors contained the first [[Mega Stone]]s, which its brilliant light allowed Rayquaza to descend onto the Hoenn region for the first time. Rayquaza then proceeded to use its power to overwhelm Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre, putting an end to their endless conflict and restoring peace to the region. Rayquaza was worshiped by the people of Hoenn as their true savior.

1,000 years after this event, the meteors returned to fall in the Hoenn region. One of these meteorites, far greater and bigger than the previous ones crashed deep into the region's core at the bottom of the ocean. The crater was later filled with rainwater. This resulted in people coming to live in the crater for the freshwater it had, thus creating the city of [[Sootopolis City]].

Unfortunately, this meteor impact will be the start of many disasters to befall the Hoenn region afterwards. The impact caused the natural energy from the Primal age to return, overwhelming the region with its energy. This causes Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre to fully awaken again. The duo proceeded to fight each other in a violent clash for twenty dawns and twenty nights. This catastrophic battle threatened to disrupt the planet's balance and destroy the world if left unchecked.<ref>[https://web.archive.org/web/20150209222143/http://www.pokemonrubysapphire.com/en-us/pokemon/legendary-pokemon/the-legends-of-hoenn-continue | The Legends of Hoenn Continue]</ref>

Through a memory from the ancient past, a Lorekeeper of the Draconid tribe with a [[Key Stone]] along with the people of Sootopolis City wished for Rayquaza to return and help save the world. The meteor that laid within Sootopolis shone a huge brilliant light that allowed Rayquaza to return. The people bowed before Rayquaza and prayed for salvation. After hearing their prayers, {{p|Rayquaza}} was filled with a great change, achieving the first ever recorded [[Mega Evolution]]. Thus, Mega Rayquaza was born by the bonds of humanity's wish channeled through the Key Stone.

Eventually, Mega Rayquaza went to confront Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre. Using the power of its emerald light and [[Strong winds|terrible wind]], the duo were stripped of their primal powers, reverting Groudon and Kyogre to their current state. The duo proceeded to return to the depths of land and sea in order to slumber. Reverting to normal, Rayquaza returned to the sky with its duty completed. [[AZ]], who witnessed the events spoke this line, “It is the Δ (Delta), born of the great disturbances in this world. By the bonds born of mankind's wish and the power of the stones, it will calm the troubles that plague the world.” AZ would later give a giant tree as a gift for Sootopolis City placed in the center of the city.

In gratitude, the Draconid people built the [[Sky Pillar]] in order to store the power of Key Stone, get closer to Rayquaza, and record the history of these events through mural paintings. For 1,000 years after this, there was peace in the Hoenn region. However, the Draconid people predicted a huge meteor known as the [[Grand Meteor Delta]] would come, and its impact would destroy the world. In preparation for this event, the Draconid people came up with a plan where a Lorekeeper would summon Rayquaza back to the Hoenn region before the Grand Meteor Delta could strike. Then Lorekeeper would pray for Rayquaza to Mega evolve and destroy the meteor for good.

At some point, the [[Red Orb]] and [[Blue Orb]] were created. These orbs had the power to both calm and put {{p|Groudon}} and {{p|Kyogre}} into a deep slumber. The only way for this slumber to end is that the respective Orbs be used on either Groudon or Kyogre. The Orbs can also unlock Groudon and Kyogre's Primal forms through a process known as [[Primal Reversion]], allowing the duo to regain their lost primal state.<ref>[https://web.archive.org/web/20150208024506/http://www.pokemonrubysapphire.com/en-us/pokemon/legendary-pokemon/primal-groudon-and-primal-kyogre | Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre | Official Site | Pokémon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire]</ref> The orbs were safely hidden away on [[Mt. Pyre]]. A third orb called the [[Jade Orb]] was also created with the power to call Rayquaza as well.

==[[Sinnoh]]/[[Hisui]]==
{{main|Sinnoh myths}}
==={{p|Regigigas}}===
[[File:Snowpoint Temple B5F DPPt.png|thumb|250px|Encountering Regigigas in {{game|Diamond and Pearl|s}}]]
There's a legend that has been passed down by the people of [[Snowpoint City]] for many years:

:''Once after a volcano violently erupted, the Snowpoint Forest, rich in natural resources and beauty, was transformed into a sea of flowing lava.''
:''Then, out of a bright blue light, {{p|Regigigas}} appeared. Along with {{p|Regirock}}, {{p|Regice}}, and {{p|Registeel}}.''
:''Together, the four of them halted the volcano's eruption, thus saving Snowpoint City from destruction. ''
:''Later Regigigas transformed itself into a stone of life and fell into a deep sleep, while in order to protect Regigigas, the legend says that Regice, Regirock, and Registeel transformed into three guardian pillars made of the basic elements of rock, ice, and steel.''

In {{game|Diamond and Pearl|s|Pokémon Diamond, Pearl}}, and {{v2|Platinum}}, the player can travel to Snowpoint Temple after obtaining the [[National Pokédex]]. If the player has all three of the [[legendary giants]] in their party, Regigigas will awaken and be able to be battled and captured.

==={{p|Arceus}} and the creation of the {{Pkmn|universe}}===
According to [[Sinnoh myths|myths, legends]], and the [[Old Verse]]s, before the beginning of the [[Pokémon universe]] there was only a vortex of complete chaos and nothingness, from which a single Egg comes into being, which then hatches into {{p|Arceus}}, the first being in existence. When Arceus hatched from this egg, it shaped the world with its thousand arms and created [[Hisui]]. {{p|Arceus}} then created the Origin Forme of {{p|Dialga|the Pokémon of time}}, {{p|Palkia|the Pokémon of space}}, and {{p|Giratina|the Pokémon of antimatter}}. Eventually, [[human]]s began to inhabit the land Arceus created. Arceus then created three new Pokémon to give all living things that come into existence {{p|Uxie|knowledge}}, {{p|Mesprit|emotions}}, and {{p|Azelf|willpower}}. These three Pokémon are said to inhabit three lakes in Hisui. {{p|Dialga}} and {{p|Palkia}} each inhabit their own [[dimension]]s, while {{p|Giratina}} was banished to the [[Distortion World]] by Arceus, who created it for Giratina.

{{p|Heatran}} and [[Stark Mountain]] would be created indirectly in the progress. Upon creating the certain orbs for the Pokémon of Myth, Arceus proceeds to enter a deep slumber in [[Hall of Origin]] located in [[Dimension#Arceus's world|Arceus's dimension]].

These Pokémon are encountered in their respective games, coming from their respective dimensions. Also, they can be encountered in {{game|HeartGold and SoulSilver|s}} through a special event. If the player has an Arceus in their party while in the [[Ruins of Alph]], they can go to the [[Sinjoh Ruins]] and obtain (an egg with) one of the [[Pokémon of Myth|Legendary Pokémon of their choice]].

===[[Ancient hero|The ancient hero]]===
A long time ago, an ancient hero went to collect 18 [[Plate]]s in order to find {{p|Arceus}}. Aiding him were ten different Pokémon from the [[Hisui]] region. There were as follows: {{p|Wyrdeer}}, {{p|Kleavor}}, {{p|Ursaluna}}, Hisuian {{p|Lilligant}}, {{p|Basculegion}}, Hisuian {{p|Arcanine}}, {{p|Sneasler}}, Hisuian {{p|Electrode}}, Hisuian {{p|Braviary}}, and Hisuian {{p|Avalugg}}. Eventually, the ten and the hero would find Arceus at [[Mount Coronet]]. They proceed to battle ''Sinnoh'', during which Arceus struck them down ten times, and each Pokémon received a blessing as a result. They would become the first Noble Pokémon and Ride Pokémon. At some point after earning his "hero" title, the man led his Pokémon companions against a being known as the "almighty unknowable", his valiance in battle proclaiming the strength of humankind, which the unknowable approved, returning to its "domain of no place".

In gratitude, the [[Temple of Sinnoh]] was built in honor of the ancient hero and his 10 Pokémon who were blessed by Arceus. This power would pass on to their descendants. Eventually, the [[Diamond Clan]] and [[Pearl Clan]] would watch over these 10 Pokémon, each guarded by a [[Warden]]. The wardens ensured these Pokémon were protected, while the Noble Pokémon would regularly receive food and water as offerings. They also guarded the Plates of Arceus.

==={{p|Uxie}}, {{p|Mesprit}}, and {{p|Azelf}}===
After {{p|Arceus}} created the universe along with the [[Pokémon of Myth]], it proceeds to create a single egg. From that egg, the Lake guardians {{p|Uxie}}, {{p|Mesprit}}, and {{p|Azelf}} emerged from it. When the trio were created, Knowledge, Emotion, and Willpower emerged into the universe. Arceus created the trio with the duty to guide and protect humans. Additionally, they were given the duty to calm {{p|Dialga}} and {{p|Palkia}} should the deities be enraged. Either by uniting together or by creating the [[Red Chain]] which has the power to tame and calm the Legendary Pokémon. The trio lives at the bottom of three different lakes in Sinnoh called [[Lake Acuity]], [[Lake Verity]], and [[Lake Valor]].

The trio were worshipped by the ancient people of [[Hisui]] for providing them with different gifts. Uxie allows humans the ability to solve problems and improve their life. From Mesprit, the ability to feel emotions such as sorrow, pain, and joy. From Azelf, the willpower to deal with any challenges in their way regardless of the difficulty. However, the Lake Guardians were also feared due to their ability to take away knowledge, emotion, and willpower if provoked to protect themselves.

==={{p|Landorus}} and {{p|Enamorus}}===
According to legend, Landorus and Enamorus both arrived at [[Hisui]] during the end of winter and the start of spring through the winds. Landorus and Enamorus used their powers to bring fresh life to the region. In gratitude, both Legendary Pokémon were referred to as the gods of field and spring respectively in the Hisui Region. Additionally, Enamorus was given the title of ''Herald of Spring''.

==[[Unova]]==
===The [[Heroes of Truth and Ideals|twin heroes]] and the [[List of disputed and unidentified Pokémon#In the games|original dragon]]===
Several of the Unova myths revolve around {{p|Zekrom}} and {{p|Reshiram}}. It is said that the two Dragon Pokémon were once a single powerful Pokémon owned by [[Heroes of Truth and Ideals|twin heroes]]. However, it was split apart by the pursuit of the different beliefs of the two brothers.

The legends of [[Lacunosa Town]] dictate that when a meteorite crashed outside of the city limits, {{p|Kyurem}} would come out at night and eat both Pokémon and people. To prevent further raids, the people of Lacunosa built walls and forbade night travel. Even during the events of {{4v|Black|White|2}}, everyone in Lacunosa Town stays indoors at night.

In {{B2W2}}, a conflicting story arises: It is said that when the [[List of disputed and unidentified Pokémon#In the games|Original Dragon]] split its essence into Reshiram and Zekrom, its purposeless body became Kyurem, which stayed inside the Giant Chasm. Kyurem awaited "a hero to fill its body with truth or ideals," presumably meaning a fusion with Reshiram or Zekrom. Vague words from [[Professor Juniper]] imply that the meteor mentioned in Lacunosa Town is similar to the Dark Stone{{sup/5|B2}}/Light Stone{{sup/5|W2}} in some way.

==={{p|Terrakion}}, {{p|Virizion}}, {{p|Cobalion}}, and {{p|Keldeo|Keldeo}}===
Long ago, two opposing human factions were at war, their strife resulting in a forest fire that threatened the lives of many [[wild Pokémon]]. Ensnared by the smoke, they could not escape, and their demise seemed certain until three figures appeared.

{{p|Terrakion}} shaped the earth and created a passage by which to escape, {{p|Virizion}} used its speed to shield the Pokémon from sparks and embers, while their leader, {{p|Cobalion}}, ushered Pokémon to safety.

Despite their attempts, they were unsuccessful, as the forest had been burned to the ground. However, amongst the ashes, the three came across a lone Pokémon, {{p|Keldeo|Keldeo}}, who they took in as their own.

The trio proceeded to fight back the armies, overwhelming them with their combined might. Legends of them continue to be told today, and it has been said that if human conflict ever again threatened the safety of Pokémon, they would return to quell the fighting and preserve a climate of peace.

==={{p|Thundurus}}, {{p|Tornadus}}, and {{p|Landorus}}===
Long ago, the Pokémon {{p|Thundurus}} and {{p|Tornadus}} began to fight, destroying the landscape in the process. {{p|Landorus}} then descended upon the two to end the dispute. It is said that should {{p|Tornadus}} and {{p|Thundurus}} ever fight again, {{p|Landorus}} will return to keep the peace.

In Pokémon Black 2 and White 2, it is said the Therian Formes of the forces of nature were the ones to fight, with Landorus coming to quell the harsh battle.

==={{p|Meloetta}}===
According to [[Unova]] artists, {{p|Meloetta}} long ago brought joy to the world through its beautiful melody and dance. The song and dance fill the people with joy. However, when sorrow darkened the world, Meloetta lost the melody it used to sing along, the ability to dance, and its red shoes. Meloetta's lost song was passed on by musicians, ensuring it lives on. Should Meloetta listen to this song, it will remember the lost melody and regain the {{m|Relic Song}} move.

==[[Kalos]]==
==={{p|Xerneas}}, {{p|Yveltal}}, and {{p|Zygarde}}===
{{p|Xerneas}} and {{p|Yveltal}} are great forces capable of giving and stealing life energy respectively. Xerneas shares life by glowing its horns in seven colors, while Yveltal's feathers near the gray pattern on its chest glow when it is about to steal life energy. When they are at the end of their lifespan, Xerneas releases all of its life energy into all the living things around it, while Yveltal expands its wings and steals all of the life energy of every living thing around it. Afterwards, they transform into a tree and a cocoon, respectively, to sleep for a thousand years. [[Zygarde Cell]]s are always monitoring the balance between Xerneas and Yveltal, and whenever it is disrupted or destroyed, a [[Zygarde Core]] will combine with its Cells and form {{p|Zygarde}} to unleash its wrath. These three Pokémon, according to [[Professor Sycamore]], are "incarnations of nature that take care of the land". Xerneas{{sup/6|X}}/Yveltal{{sup/6|Y}} both appeared during the ancient war between Kalos and another country either to rescue injured Pokémon from said conflict{{sup/6|X}}/taken away the life energy of Pokémon involved in conflict{{sup/6|Y}}. They showed up again 2,200 years later to either brighten{{sup/6|X}}/darken{{sup/6|Y}} the Kalos region with its power.

One of Professor Sycamore's theories state that the [[Mega Stones]] used in [[Mega Evolution]], originated from special stones, possibly [[Evolution stones]], that were irradiated by the light of Xerneas{{sup/6|X}}/Yveltal{{sup/6|Y}} fired from the [[Ultimate weapon]] 3,000 years ago. [[AZ]] used the power of Xerneas{{sup/6|X}}/Yveltal{{sup/6|Y}} to create the Ultimate weapon. First, he used the Legendary Pokémon's power to first revive his [[AZ#Floette|Floette]]. Next, he used the weapon to end the war by destroying both sides in revenge.

A Monsieur in [[Anistar City]] recounts the legends of Xerneas{{sup/6|X}}/Yveltal{{sup/6|Y}}:

===={{p|Xerneas}}====
:''"It happened around 800 years ago. The Pokémon known as Xerneas used its shining horns to illuminate the lands of Kalos. At that very moment, people and Pokémon throughout the land felt great energy and vitality surge through their bodies. At the same time, a vast forest sprang up, with Xerneas at its center. Legend has it that, when it nears the end of its thousand-year life span, Xerneas releases all of its remaining energy, sharing it with all living things nearby. There's another story I know that talks of the appearance of just such a fortuitous Pokémon. Back 3,000 years ago, the Kalos region was engulfed in a terrible war. So the tale goes, a Pokémon came to the rescue of all the wounded Pokémon that had been caught up in the conflict. Some people suspect the Pokémon that appeared was Xerneas, but there's no way to know. Maybe they just wished a Legendary Pokémon had come to the rescue to brighten a tale of woe. Supposedly, after Xerneas had released its remaining energy, it transformed into a dried-up tree. It remains in hiding deep within the forest. According to old tales, as I say. Stories and tales."''

===={{p|Yveltal}}====
:''"It happened around 800 years ago. The Pokémon known as Yveltal spread its ominous wings, engulfing the lands of Kalos in darkness. At that moment, people and Pokémon throughout the land began to fall one by one. Yveltal let out a piercing cry and took to the sky, vanishing to an unknown location. Stories say that when it nears the end of its thousand-year life span, Yveltal absorbs the life force of the living things around it in order to charge its own energy. Another tale talks of the appearance of just such a terrifying Pokémon. Back 3,000 years ago, the Kalos region was engulfed in a terrible war. According to the stories, a Pokémon appeared and stole the life force of countless living beings. Some people suspect the Pokémon that appeared was Yveltal, but there's no way to know. Maybe they're just using a Legendary Pokémon as a metaphor for war and pestilence. In the tales, after Yveltal finished storing the energy it had absorbed, it transformed into a kind of cocoon, remaining in hiding deep in the mountains. According to old tales, as I say. Tales and stories."''

==={{p|Hoopa}}===
According to a traveler at the [[Parfum Palace]], Hoopa is connected to many strange events and has mysterious powers. Hoopa Confined uses its three rings to move an object it wants. At Hoopa's full power, particularly its Unbound Form, it can increase the size of its rings to grow multiple miles in length. Said massive rings can transport entire islands. The lair of Hoopa is said to contain objects and treasures it obtained over the years, claiming as its own. One rumor of Hoopa's lair claims that there are mountains of gold and silver treasures stolen from ancient kings and wealthy land barons. Rumor has it that Hoopa's lair is inside an oasis in the desert. However, no one has ever found it. According to a tale, an organization tried to manipulate Hoopa for its power. In retaliation, Hoopa causes individual objects to disappear from the organization's lair. These objects were weapons, vehicles, and money. This action terrified the organization to the point they hid inside their headquarters. Once they did, the objects stopped disappearing. When the organization finally decided to leave its headquarters, they discovered that Hoopa had teleported their headquarters to the middle of the desert. Due to Hoopa's actions, the terrified organization disbanded as a result. A long, long time ago, Hoopa's true power was sealed within the [[Prison Bottle]] to prevent it from causing havoc.

==[[Alola]]==
===The [[Guardian deities|Guardian Deities]]===
According to the legends of [[Alola]], the Guardian deities served as protectors of the islands they reside in, and led the armies on each island. At one point in the past, they participated in a war against each other, while serving the royals of their representative island and using giant forms, which is seen through their signature z-move, {{m|Guardian of Alola}}. Due to the destruction the war brought, they stopped being involved in human wars. They occasionally fought to see who was the strongest, which led to the creation of the modern [[Battle Royal]] format, though it is said they prefer to spend time closed in their shells, absorbing nature's energy. Whenever an [[Ultra Beast]] appears in Alola, it is the duty of the deities to fiercely fight against it in order to protect their islands from invaders.

According to a book called "The Light of [[Alola]]" found in the upper floor of the Malie Library, {{p|Solgaleo}}{{sup/7|S}}{{sup/7|US}}/{{p|Lunala}}{{sup/7|M}}{{sup/7|UM}} emerged from an [[Ultra Wormhole]] and fought against the Guardian deities, starting a great battle in which neither side could win. Finding {{p|Solgaleo}}{{sup/7|S}}{{sup/7|US}}/{{p|Lunala}}{{sup/7|M}}{{sup/7|UM}} to be their equals, the island guardians bestowed the [[Tapunium Z]] upon them. Then along with Lunala{{sup/7|S}}{{sup/7|US}}/Solgaleo{{sup/7|M}}{{sup/7|UM}}, the pair proceeded to create the Nebula Pokémon known as {{p|Cosmog}} for the Tapus to protect and watch over until they fully evolved before returning to [[Ultra Space]].

According to the secret notes found hidden in the Malie Library, at one point, {{p|Necrozma}} the "Pillager of Light" invaded [[Alola]], stealing all of its light, and shrouding the region in darkness, the Tapus fought hard to regain back the light stolen, and through the assistance of a youth, and injection with the [[Z-Crystal]]s/[[Sparkling Stone]]s, proceeded to banish Necrozma from Alola, restoring light back to Alola while also freeing Solgaleo{{sup/7|US}}/Lunala{{sup/7|UM}} who had been absorbed by Necrozma.

==={{p|Solgaleo}}, {{p|Lunala}}, and {{p|Necrozma}}===
As said in an ancient legend on the [[SM074|origins of Alola]], the legendary trio brought light into the [[Alola]] region when it was first created. Ultra Necrozma's light shined the brightest of the trio, making the ancient people call it the "Blinding One". After sharing all of its light, Necrozma transformed and entered a deep slumber. Eventually, Solgaleo and Lunala returned and shared their light with Necrozma, restoring its light. Ultra Necrozma returned to [[Ultra Space]] afterwards. This lead to the creation of both [[Z-Move]]s and [[Z-Crystal]]s.

According to a book called "The Light of [[Alola]]" found in {{DL|Malie City|Malie Library}}, a {{p|Solgaleo}}{{sup/7|S}}{{sup/7|US}}/{{p|Lunala}}{{sup/7|M}}{{sup/7|UM}} appeared in [[Alola]] many years ago through an [[Ultra Wormhole]]. The ancient kings of Alola bowed down to the [[Legendary Pokémon]], worshipping it. The [[guardian deities]] battled it but were defeated by it, who then however gave the [[Tapunium Z]] to them as a reward. The Legendary Pokémon then created several {{p|Cosmog}} as heirs for Alola, giving the Guardian deities the task of watching over them until they have fully evolved. In gratitude, the kings of Alola gave their thanks with a song on the [[Sun Flute|Sun]] and [[Moon Flute]]s at the [[Altar of the Sunne]] {{sup/7|S}}{{sup/7|US}}/[[Altar of the Moone]] {{sup/7|M}}{{sup/7|UM}}, at which point the Legendary Pokémon returned to [[Ultra Space]].

Long ago in ancient times, Necrozma as the "Blinding One" once shared its light across [[Ultra Space]] and [[Alola]]. This led to the creation of [[Z-Move]]s and the aura that surrounds [[Totem Pokémon]]. However, the residents of [[Ultra Megalopolis]] attempted to control the Prism Pokémon in order to create light. This resulted in Necrozma being permanently injured, reducing it to a crystalline body while in constant pain. Pieces of its original body rained down onto Alola in the form of [[Sparkling Stone]]s. In retaliation, Necrozma stole all the light from Ultra Megalopolis, leaving that world forever in darkness. In response, the residents locked Necrozma in the [[Megalo Tower]] in order to prevent it from escaping.

Necrozma engages in an eternal struggle with Solgaleo and Lunala in its quest to steal their boundless light and restore its original Ultra form. The duo frequently confronts Necrozma throughout Ultra Space.<ref>[[Kazumasa Iwao]]: ''"These three are always struggling against one another in [[Ultra Space]]."'' Pokémon Ultra Sun & Pokémon Ultra Moon Edition: The Official National Pokédex (Pokemon (Prima Official Guide/Official Pokedex Guide))</ref> Whenever Necrozma absorbs light from others, Solgaleo and Lunala pursue it to reclaim the stolen energy. This ongoing conflict has created a delicate, cyclical balance among the three Pokémon.

According to the secret notes found hidden in the Malie Library, Necrozma invaded Alola and stole its light, causing the region to be covered in darkness. It fought fiercely against the guardian deities near [[Tapu Village]] and a Solgaleo{{sup/7|US}}/Lunala{{sup/7|UM}}. During which, it absorbed Solgaleo{{sup/7|US}}/Lunala{{sup/7|UM}} and transforms into {{DL|List of Pokémon with form differences|Necrozma|Dusk Mane}}{{sup/7|US}}/{{DL|List of Pokémon with form differences|Necrozma|Dawn Wings}}{{sup/7|UM}} Necrozma. When a youth came together with the Tapu and by using the power of the [[Z-Crystal]]s and [[Sparkling Stone]]s, they freed the Legendary Pokémon and banished Necrozma from Alola, bringing light back to it. Dubbed the "Pillager of Light" as a result of this moment in history, the king of Alola had all books mentioning Necrozma burned in order to prevent further panic.

==[[Galar]]==
===The [[Darkest Day]]===
Eternatus arrived in [[Galar]] inside of a meteor 20,000 years ago. The legendary heroes were said to have guarded [[Galar]] and were believed to be the rulers of the Galar region since ancient times. Both were referred to as the Fairy King's Sword and Fighting Master's Shield respectively, earning the respect of some and the fear of others. 3,000 years ago, the duo witnessed a [[Wishing Star]], from where {{p|Eternatus}} appears. As a result of Eternatus attempting to absorb Galar's energy to stay alive, a phenomenon known as the [[Darkest Day]] was said to have occurred. This black storm caused Pokémon to [[Dynamax]] and [[Gigantamax]] while going on rampages in the process. During this event, the legendary heroes would encounter [[Ancient Galarian kings|two youths]] wielding a sword and shield. Zacian and Zamazenta fought a hard battle against Eternatus, defeating it, before sealing it deep within the Galar region.

The two youths were crowned the kings of Galar for their role in the Darkest Day. However, due to receiving injuries from the fight, the Legendary duo retreated to the [[Slumbering Weald]]. They then transformed into statues before entering deep sleep, supposedly lasting for eons. Solid pieces of Eternatus's power rained down as [[Wishing Piece]]s, [[Wishing Chip]]s, and [[Wishing Star]]s. The legendary heroes also left behind the [[Rusted Sword]] and [[Rusted Shield]]. In time, the heroes became nearly forgotten due to slumbering for so long. The ancestors of the first kings of Galar covered up their history as well, replacing it with two young youths who saved Galar from the Darkest Day, as opposed to {{p|Zacian}} and {{p|Zamazenta}}.

==={{p|Kubfu}} and {{p|Urshifu}}===
Kubfu originated from a mountain region far away from [[Galar]]. It served as a guide for explorations to uncharted lands, where the descendants of Kubfu often settled. Some Kubfu eventually ended up at the [[Master Dojo]], where they became its "sacred armor" for those who completed the three trials. The [[Towers of Two Fists]] were built to allow Kubfu to evolve into {{p|Urshifu}}. Urshifu's Gigantamax forms are believed to have the power to cleanse the world of evil spirits.

==={{rf|Galarian}} [[legendary birds]]===
The three legendary birds migrate every 10 years to the Dyna Tree in the [[Crown Tundra]]. They feed on food from the tree when the sun reaches its zenith and shines directly on it. However, the three tend to clash with each other for the right to roost and feed on said tree. They were once believed to be the same as their Kantonian counterparts. Notably, their Pokédex entries seem to imply that they are not really forms of the legendary birds, but instead completely different Pokémon that just happen to look like them.

==={{p|Regieleki}} and {{p|Regidrago}}===
The duo was created by {{p|Regigigas}} using pure electric energy and crystallized dragon energy. They were later sealed away in the [[Split-Decision Ruins]] in [[Crown Tundra]] due to ancient people fearing them. The Split-Decision Ruins can only be unlocked when the three original [[legendary giants]] are gathered near it.

==={{p|Glastrier}} and {{p|Spectrier}}===
Depending on where the player plants the Carrot Seeds, one of the two Legendary Pokémon appears, and is stated to be the steed of {{p|Calyrex}}. Glastrier/Spectrier was known as a ruffian that once ruled over the [[Crown Tundra]] as lord of all Pokémon<ref>https://swordshield.pokemon.com/en-us/expansionpass/pokemon/united-by-their-bonds/</ref>. It was known to be proud and arrogant, and only followed those it deemed the strongest. Every now and then, the steed grew angry at humans for invading its territory, so it retaliates against the humans and their Pokémon with vengeance. It regularly terrorized the residents of [[Freezington]], a town located in the [[Crown Tundra]]. It ravaged and raided the food grown by the people, particularly the Carrot Seeds for the rare Iceroot Carrots/Shaderoot Carrots. Eventually, the horse was tamed by Calyrex who defeated the ruffian, which then became the King's loyal steed.

In gratitude, the villagers created the [[Reins of Unity]] which allowed Calyrex to fuse with its steed. When they combined for the first time, a forest was created from their union. Together, the duo spread greenery and harvest across the land of [[Galar]]. The duo resided in the [[Crown Shrine]] which was built by the villagers.

However, when the people began to lose faith in Calyrex, it became weak, and the steed abandoned it. It then went to the Crown Shrine, the former home of its partner, as a way of taunting it. It eventually faded into legend, and the people of the Crown Tundra wondered if the horse existed, and even what color it was.

==={{p|Calyrex|The King of Bountiful Harvests}}===
Calyrex once ruled all of [[Galar]] and later on, the [[Crown Tundra]], in ancient times as a benevolent king. It has the power to see every known past, present, and future event. It was known as "The King of Bountiful Harvests" as it brought lush vegetation and a good harvest to the land every year. Using its right hand can cause the land to be covered in verdant glass and blooms, while the left hand can make the fields of fruit ripen and heavy.

At one point, the [[Freezington]]'s people's ancestors met Calyrex when it was injured during a time when the Crown Tundra was barren and uninhabitable. It reacted in fear when the humans opened their palms, so they closed their palms in order to make Calyrex feel safe. The King Pokémon was then healed by humans living in the Crown Tundra. Upon being nursed back to its full strength, Calyrex emitted a dazzling blue light. Then in gratitude, Calyrex turns the frozen Tundra they lived in into a habitable land filled with lush and rich soil called the Crown Plains. This allowed the people to thrive successfully in the cold region.

This act earned the respect and loyalty of the people who worshiped it. They began to refer to Calyrex as a king. At one point, Calyrex saved the people again from {{p|Glastrier}}/{{p|Spectrier}}, a ruffian who was the lord of the Crown Tundra. This also gave rise to the tradition of giving it an offering in gratitude each year— the [[Reins of Unity]], which bonds Calyrex to the people it worshipped. The Reins of Unity were made by a [[Radiant Petal]] from Calyrex and mane hair from its loyal steed, Glastrier/Spectrier. The Reins of Unity allowed Calyrex to command {{p|Glastrier}}/{{p|Spectrier}} with ease. The villagers then created the [[Crown Shrine]] in order to give Calyrex and its royal steed a worthy home.

However, as time went by, people began to slowly forget about and lose faith in Calyrex. As Calyrex depends on the people's faith, it slowly lost its great power. Eventually, its steed abandoned it, leaving it with only a fraction of its power. Thus, Calyrex faded into legend and fairy tales. One such tale claims that Calyrex would steal the body of a person who misbehaved.

Pedestals inscribed with the story of Calyrex are found throughout the Crown Tundra:

[[Giant's Foot]] 
May 7 
Once, these lusciously green lands of ours lay barren. The grass wilted. Our crops withered. This was a tundra shrouded in frigid cold. Many days into a bleak winter, a Pokémon appeared on the tundra—adorned with a regal crown yet wounded and weak. Full of pity, our people brought the Pokémon to our village and saw to its care.

[[Ballimere Lake]] 
August 18 
Under the care of our ancestors’ healing ways, the visitor's wounds mended. It shrank back in fear if approached with open palms, so all kept their hands closed in its presence. Once it regained its full strength, the visitor emitted a dazzling blue light that breathed life back into our wilted fields, blessing them with the promise of harvests once more. Perhaps this was its way of showing its gratitude.

[[Old Cemetery]] 
November 30 
Green flourished once more around our village, and rich soil began to spread. Vast lands lay open for farming once more. The village folk began to call the visitor a king in appreciation. Our village had long been plagued by a ruffian that ran rampant through the fields, devouring crops as it pleased. But the king, resplendent in its full power, suddenly spoke to us in our tongue, vowing to rein in the ruffian.

[[Giant's Bed]] 
January 2 
Before long, the ruffian had bent its knees to the king and become its loyal steed. Our people's faith in the king grew firm and unwavering. Our ancestors built a temple around the sacred sapling atop a tall mountain to give the king a worthy home. Moreover, they crafted a set of reins to let the king command its proud steed with ease.

[[Snowslide Slope]] 
April 21 
The king brought abundance and life to this land that was once frozen tundra. We owe these very Crown Plains to our king. As long as the bond between us people and our king holds strong, these lands will no doubt thrive for all time in fertile green.

==[[Lental]]==
===[[Illumina phenomenon|Illumina Pokémon]]===
According to legend, the [[Lental]] region was protected by the Illumina Pokémon, seven powerful Pokémon guarding the region: {{p|Meganium}}, {{p|Wishiwashi}}, {{p|Milotic}}, two {{p|Volcarona}}, {{p|Steelix}}, and {{p|Xerneas}}. 2,000 years ago, when a meteorite threatened to destroy Lental, Xerneas formed a shield around the region to protect it. The process left it exhausted, so Xerneas lay dormant in the [[Ruins of Remembrance]] on [[Aurus Island]] for many years until someone who loves Pokémon appears. The other Illumina Pokémon went to sleep as well and faded into legend. The Illumina Pokémon would only awaken and appear when a person who loves Pokémon appears before them.

==[[Paldea]]==
==={{p|Koraidon}} and {{p|Miraidon}}===
According to legends and the [[Pokédex]], the Legendary duo is believed to be versions of Cyclizar from the distant past and the far future, respectively. However, they are said to be more aggressive and powerful than Cyclizar. They have been referred to as the ''Winged King'' and the ''Iron Serpent'', respectively, from the ancient books.

===[[Treasures of ruin]]===
According to [[Raifort]]'s research on history from various sources, four treasures were collected by a king which led to the kingdom's destruction. Once upon a time during the Paldean Empire, there was a wicked king who loved to collect treasures, particularly ones from other countries. Eventually, a merchant from the East came to visit the rumored King. The merchant would show the king a set of four ancient treasures. These treasures consist of a vessel, a broken sword, a set of tablets, and a set of beads. The king was happy to see such wonderful treasures before him. He paid the merchant golden coins before obtaining the treasures for himself.

Unknown to the king, the treasures held a curse. These four treasures had been passed from person to person for a very long time and had become corrupted by the negative emotions of humanity's hubris and greed. These negative emotions would be fear, hatred, grudges, and envy. Upon being exposed to the Paldean King's greed, the built-up negativity in the treasures awakened, transforming them into four Pokémon: {{p|Ting-Lu}}, {{p|Chien-Pao}}, {{p|Wo-Chien}}, and {{p|Chi-Yu}}. By the dawn of the next day, these four Pokémon had reduced the king's castle to rubble. They have been collectively referred to as the treasures of ruin.

The treasures of ruin also had titles, and each formed a different negative emotion. Chien-Pao was the "Sword of Ruin" due to possibly the broken sword's blade and hilt forming the twin fangs. It was formed from the hatred of those the sword killed long ago. Ting-Lu was the "Vessel of Ruin" due to the ritual vessel that is in place of a head. The fear formed it poured into the ritual vessel. Wo-Chien was the "Tablets of Ruin" due to being formed by many wooden writing tablets fused. It was formed from the grudge of a scribe punished for writing down the king's wicked deeds. Finally, Chi-Yu was the "Beads of Ruin" due to the beads being used for possible religious rituals and to ward off disasters. It was formed from the envy of people who waged wars over the beads in the past.

As a result, these incarnations of disasters proceed to run rampant in an uncontrollable rage. The king proceeded to call for well-known Pokémon wielders of that time to stop the treasures of ruin. After engaging in a fierce battle to protect the ruined country, these Pokémon were defeated and calmed. The four were then sealed in their respective shrines located through Paldea such as [[Socarrat Trail]], [[West Province (Area One)]], [[South Province (Area One)]], and [[North Province (Area Two)]]. The ancient Pokémon wielders used eight sacred stakes each for the seals and scattered them around the region to keep the four safely locked away. The only way to free the treasures of ruin is to remove the stakes by someone who has a pure heart and a strong bond with Pokémon.

===The [[Explorers]] and [[Laqua]]===
100 year ago, an adventurer named [[Lucius]] alongside his [[Black Rayquaza]] travelled all over the {{Pkmn|world}} through different [[region]]s seeking a mysterious Pokémon paradise told in fairytales, [[Laqua]]. At some point, he also got a copy of [[Heath]]'s [[Scarlet Book]], which granted him knowledge about {{P|Terapagos}}. While visiting a city during his travels, he saved another adventurer named [[Rystal]], as she was being chased by thieves who wanted her {{p|Terapagos}}, [[Pagogo]]. Since then, she joined Lucius in his quest. During their next travels, Lucius met and caught five other Pokémon: an {{TP|Lucius|Arboliva}}, a {{rf|Galarian}} {{TP|Lucius|Moltres}}, a {{TP|Lucius|Lapras}}, a {{TP|Lucius|Kleavor}}, and a {{TP|Lucius|Gouging Fire}}, who alongside Rayquaza, came to be known as the [[Six Heroes]]. At some point of their journey, Rystal became pregnant with a daughter by Lucius. While the two were looking for more information on Laqua, a couple started mocking them for being adults and still believing in Laqua, but another adventurer named [[Gibeon]] defended them by showing every record and data of Laqua. Since then, he joined them in their quest alongside his {{Shiny|White}} {{P|Zygarde}}.

After the trio founded the [[Explorers]], as the three original members, they managed to find and reach Laqua, located 100 days and 100 nights away from Paldea, thanks to Lucius's Rayquaza. They explored Laqua together and found many [[Legendary Pokémon]] living peacefully there. As they looked deeper, they discovered plants overgrowing to the point of causing huge damage to the paradise's environment. Looking further in, they discovered a cluster of pink crystals that'd be later named [[Laquium]], which are stimulating the growth of the plants around it. While Lucius and Rystal decided to leave Laqua, concerned of the Laquium's effect on them, Gibeon chose to stay and use his Zygarde in an attempt to dig the Laquium out, fascinated with its power beyond human comprehension. However, in response, the crystals started expanding and spreading out its mist in the air, creating cracks on the ground, making [[wild Pokémon]] go feral, and growing plants far beyond their limit. Fearing this might destroy the world, Lucius releases his Six Heroes, however, their efforts are in vain. Gibeon's Zygarde even goes against its trainer's orders and sacrifices its [[Zygarde Cell|Cells]] in an attempt to seal it away, which also fails, causing it to lose its 50% Forme and for Gibeon to fall into a crack as a result. Lucius and Rystal's determination prompts Pagogo to change into its {{Form|Terapagos|Stellar Form}} and use the Six Heroes to seal away all the Laquium crystal and mist inside a giant shield. As a result, Lucius is left stuck in Laqua, the Six Heroes and their Poké Balls are scattered around the world by an explosion, and Terapagos falls into a 100 years hibernation; however, Rystal managed to leave the paradise with Pagogo in the form of a pendant, but kept all this history from her daughter {{OBP|Layla|Horizons}}.

==={{p|Terapagos|The hidden treasure of Area Zero}}===
According to legends, research by the Area Zero expedition team, and the [[Pokédex]], Terapagos was once an ancient species that existed in the [[Paldea]] [[region]] about two million years ago. However, it supposedly went extinct due to seismic shifts that also created the [[Area Zero Underdepths]]. Unknown to anyone, [[Terapagos (game)|one specimen]] survived the event by crystallizing its own body, getting trapped underground and proceeding to enter a deep hibernation. One million years later, the [[Great Crater of Paldea]] and [[Area Zero]] were formed supposedly due to the same seismic shifts.

998,000 years after the crater was formed, the emperor of the Paldean Empire started the Great Age of Exploration to find Terapagos, that was known as the Hidden Treasure of Area Zero. Despite the many expeditions, no one was able to find Terapagos as it kept slumbering there. The Paldean Empire collapsed after 1,000 years of the wasted expense of support or countless failed Area Zero expeditions. Thus, Terapagos and Area Zero remain a mystery.

996,800 years after the fall of the Paldean Empire, the Area Zero Exploration Team would be the first to reach the bottom of Area Zero. At one point while exploring the depths of Area Zero, one of its members [[Heath]] strayed from his team and fell into Area Zero Underdepths unconscious. When he woke up, he encountered Terapagos and gave the Legendary Pokémon its name. He would later write his notes on it through the [[Scarlet Book]]{{sup/9|S}}/[[Violet Book]]{{sup/9|V}}. However, for reasons unknown, Heath will cover the evidence on Terapagos in copies except the original. People also accused Heath and his team of making up Terapagos and the other discoveries in Area Zero. So the whole team was discredited.

140 years to the present day, the [[Terastal phenomenon]] was discovered, having been created by Terapagos during the years it slumbers, and crystals form over time. However, there was no way to remove the discovery outside of the crater without it disappearing. Terpagos was later seen by Professor Sada{{sup/9|S}}/Professor Turo{{sup/9|V}} 10 years before the present day who researched it during their stay in Area Zero.

==[[Kitakami]]==
===[[Loyal Three]]===
There are two legends of the Royal Three for their role in Kitakami's history. The false legend is based on the villager's story. Plus, the actual legend is based on the mask maker's story.

According to the villagers of [[Kitakami]], the Loyal Three were once normal Pokémon. Okidogi was small and weak, Munkidori clumsy and dim-witted, and Fezandipiti had short, dull feathers. However, one day their wishes led them to obtain purple chains made of toxins, granting them respectively from a Pokémon name {{p|Pecharunt}}. Okidogi received a powerful physique by stimulating their muscles, Munkidori received psychic powers due to the brain being stimulated, and Fezandipiti became more beautiful along with a lovely voice.
;False Legend
According to the false legend, the trio of {{p|Okidogi}}, {{p|Munkidori}}, and {{p|Fezandipiti}} were visiting [[Kitakami]] when an enraged Ogerpon appeared to terrorize the village. The trio bravely sacrifice themselves to drive the ogre back into the [[Oni Mountain]]. In gratitude, they were named the '''Loyal Three''' and the '''Heroes of Kitakami''' in honor of their sacrifice. They were then given a proper burial at the '''Loyal Three Mounument''' in Loyalty Plaza, and statues based on the trio were created for them. The Festival of Masks is celebrated every year to honor the Loyal Three. The villagers believed worshiping the trio would grant them kindness, success, and good luck. Plus, it helped ensure the people that things will be 'okey-dokey', hunky-dory, and serendipitous in the end.

;True Legend
According to the ancient mask maker, the Royal Three were a group of three greedy Pokémon that stole treasures for themselves and their master {{p|Pecharunt}}. Long ago, the trio and their master traveled from a distant land into [[Kitakami]]. The reason was due to they had heard rumors about four exquisite, shining masks being seen in the land. Wanting to steal the masks for themselves, they located the owners of the said masks, it was a man and Ogerpon who came from a foreign land, residing in the [[Dreaded Den]]. While Ogerpon was away, the trio sneaked into the cave to steal the masks, only for the man to confront them. After attacking the man, the trio makes off with the Wellspring Mask, the Hearthflame Mask, and the Cornerstone Mask. However, the man managed to retain the Teal Mask. Several hours later, as the three Pokémon were gloating over the masks they stole, Ogerpon discovered them. Realizing what they have done, a vengeful Ogerpon kills them in retaliation. Unfortunately, the nearby villagers misunderstood the situation. They mistakenly believed the three Pokémon had died protecting their home from a terrifying, rampaging "ogre". Because of their "sacrifice", the villagers honored them with the name the Loyal Three, treating them with care. Because of this, the wounded Ogerpon returned to her cave alone in sorrow. The bodies of the Loyal Three were then buried in a monument dedicated to them, erected on top of a hill near the village. The surrounding area was named the Loyal Three Park, later renamed Loyalty Plaza.

Only the village mask maker knew what happened. When he tried to explain it, the other villagers refused to believe him, calling him a heretic as a result. To protect his family, he kept the truth hidden from everyone except his family to avoid the village's wrath. The family then passed the truth down to their descendants as a closely, guarded family secret. Meanwhile, the Loyal Three were unjustly honored as heroes by the people of Kitakami for generations. They do this through the Festival of Masks.

==={{p|Ogerpon}}===
Ogerpon has two legends to it. The false legend is based on the villagers' story, while the true version of the legend is based on the mask maker's story.

;False Legend
According to the folks of Kitakami, Ogerpon was a fearsome ogre that resided in the land of [[Kitakami]], living in the [[Oni Mountain]]. It has access to the elements of grass, fire, water, and stone through its masks. It regularly terrorizes anyone who enters the [[Dreaded Den]]. One fateful day, Ogerpon emerged from the mountain in a terrifying rage, its presence causing great fear. Luckily, a trio of Pokémon called {{p|Okidogi}}, {{p|Munkidori}}, and {{p|Fezandipiti}} were near the village it appeared in. At the cost of their lives, they drove Ogerpon back into the Oni Mountain. The trio were able to steal three masks from the ogre, weakening Ogerpon in the progress. The masks were then stored away at the Kitakami Hall for safekeeping.

There is a tale where a human should be wary if they see a shadowy figure approach Kitakami at twilight. If they see the shadow, they must put on a mask to hide their face. If the shadow is a man or a monster, they will be safe thanks to the mask hiding their identity. However, if one meets the shadow without a mask, one must pray it is just a man. If it is one of those two, they will live to see another day, never forgetting to wear a mask during the night. If the shadow is the ogre, the person will meet their end. By seeing Ogerpon's face, the person's life is forfeited, unable to return to Kitakami.
;True Legend
According to the mask masker, Ogerpon was a kind and gentle Pokémon. The duo traveled from an unknown land into Kitakami. However, the dup were shunned by the people of Kitakami due to their strange appearance. As a result, the duo settled down with living in the [[Dreaded Den]], in the nearby [[Oni Mountain]], separating them from the villagers. Luckily, the village mask-maker took pity on the pair. He proceeded to craft four beautiful masks for them. The masks were created from brilliant jewels he brought from the [[Paldea]] region. This allowed the duo to hide their true face, blending in with the villagers. The man and Ogerpon were in gratitude for the mask masker's kindness. The duo then participated in the village festival. The pair became famous in Kitakami as a result. The main reason was due to the villagers often talking about their brilliant masks.

However, their fame would ultimately bring tragedy and trouble. One fateful day, three greedy Pokémon along with their master: Okidogi, Munkidori, Fezandipiti, and Pecharunt traveled to Kitakami due to the rumors of four brilliant masks. Upon finding the Dreaded Den in Oni Mountain, the trio ambushed Ogerpon's companion, managing to steal all but the Teal Mask. When Ogerpon returned several hours later, there was no trace of the mysterious man. All that remained were signs of a struggle and the Teal Mask.

Ogerpon puts on the Teal Mask and travels to Kitakami to find its missing friend. Instead, it found Okidogi, Munkidori, and Fezandipiti gloating about the stolen masks they took from Ogerpon's friend. Filled with deep rage, Ogerpon attacked and defeated the three Pokémon in revenge. However, while consumed in deep anger, Ogerpon unwittingly made the villagers fear it even more. This misunderstanding leads the villagers to believe the trio gave up their lives to drive away Ogerpon. Thus, Okidogi, Munkidori, and Fezandipiti were honored by the misguided villagers. The villagers renamed the trio as the Loyal Three. Ashamed of its actions, Ogerpon returned to the Dreaded Den alone and filled with great sadness. It would spend many years alone ever since.

The mask maker tried to tell the truth about what happened. Instead, he was met with disbelief by the villagers, calling him a heretic. Thus, he had no choice but to keep the truth hidden. He did it to protect his family from the village's wrath. This became a closely guarded family secret for his descendants. Ogerpon is honored as a villain during the Festival of Masks.

==[[Region#Unnamed locations|Unknown region]]==
This section is for myths and legends that are not related to any specific region.

===[[Sinjoh Ruins]]===
Hundreds of years ago in an unknown region, the Sinjoh Ruins were built by two different groups of people. One group originated from [[Sinnoh]] while the second originated from [[Johto]]. The ruins contained an element of both [[Spear Pillar]] and [[Ruins of Alph]] along with the culture of both regions. The former temple was built to honor {{p|Arceus}}, the [[Pokémon of Myth]], and the {{p|Unown}}.

==={{p|Meltan}} and {{p|Melmetal}}===
According to the ancient texts and research by [[Professor Willow]], {{p|Melmetal}} existed 3,000 years ago living in a secluded place filled with sedimentary rocks rich containing magnetite. It was worshipped for the ability to create iron out of nothing, which was used to create special and unique metal tools. At some point, Melmetal reached its life's end and rusted before splitting into multiple {{p|Meltan}}. Its followers wanted to keep the Meltan safe, so they placed them into the [[Mystery Box]], serving as the only way for Melmetal to return. The box can only be unlocked when air from any natural environment is exposed.

Legends from a distant land, perhaps the same one where Meltan and Melmetal originated from, speak of a cyclopean giant, however, the giant was in reality a Melmetal that that was flooded with [[Galar particle|Dynamax energy]] and became [[Gigantamax|Gigantamaxed]].

==={{p|Pecharunt}}===
This story on Pecharunt is an untold tale in the land of [[Kitakami]]. A long time ago, in a faraway land, lived an old married couple. The old couple had no children of their own. Instead, they had chosen to take care of a small, timid [[Mythical Pokémon]] named Pecharunt. The old couple loved and cared deeply for Pecharunt. Desiring more of their affection, Pecharunt created Binding Mochi through the poison within its body. By feeding them the Binding Mochi, the old couple became enthralled by its delicious taste and fell under Pecharunt's control. The Binding Mochi it made drew out the greed of the old couple who consumed it. Afterward, the couple constantly asks Pechraunt for requests and little things. Eager to gain more love from the couple's wishes, Pecharunt used the Binding Moichi and Toxic Chains to tame a smaller and weaker Pokémon. As a result, the Pokémon turns into the muscular {{p|Okidogi}}, the first of Pecharunt's retainers. It then commanded Okidogi to deliver the gifts to the couple tomorrow morning. These deeds allowed the couple's love for Pecharunt to grow even more.

One fateful day, the old couple makes a peculiar request for Pecharunt. They requested Pecharunt bring them [[:en:Category:Masks|a brilliant set of masks]], rumored to be found the land of [[Kitakami]]. Pecharunt was eager to do the request, having grown tired of completing the same, old requests. Pecharunt proceeds to leave the village for Kitakami along with Okidogi, very eager to grant the couple's wish. Needing an additional companion, Pecharunt used the Binding Mochi and Toxic Chains to tame a clumsy, dim-witted Pokémon. This Pokémon became the clever {{p|Munkidori}} who had the power to see into the near future. It also became Pecharunt's second retainer. Still worried for its safety, Pecharunt used its power again to tame a Pokémon with short, dull feathers into becoming its third retainer. This bird Pokémon transformed into the beautiful {{p|Fezandipiti}} who had the power to expel mesmerizing pheromones. Now feeling safe and secure, Pecharunt and its [[Loyal Three|three retainers]] begin their journey to Kitakami. The journey took them through fields, mountains, and seas before finally reaching their destination.

Hiding in the woods during the annual Kitakami festival, Pecharunt and its retainers witness two figures with glittering masks. The duo was [[Ogerpon (game)|Ogerpon]] and its partner. As a result, Pecharunt finds the owners of the masks it seeks. During the evening, the cautious Pecharunt had Munkidori track down where the two lived. Upon reaching the [[Dreaded Den]] of [[Oni Mountain]], it commanded Okidogi and Fezandipiti to sneak into the cave to obtain the four masks while Ogerpon and its partner were away. Before the duo could leave with the stolen masks, Ogerpon's partner returned and attacked the intruders to reclaim the stolen masks. Okidogi and Fezandipiti had no choice but to fight back. Eventually, the duo escaped and returned to Pecharunt and Munkidori with three masks, while the [[Teal Mask]] remained with the injured man. The thieving Pokémon ran away to a hidden spot.

At that moment, Pecharunt was pleased the glittering masks belonged to it. Finally, Pecharunt felt it could return home to the old couple and that they would love it even more. However, its joy quickly faded away when the vengeful Ogerpon arrived for revenge for their actions. The panicked Pecharunt used its Binding Mochi to command its retainers to defend and defeat the enraged Ogerpon. Despite their best attempt and numbers, they could not stop Ogerpon's terrifying rampage. Ogerpon proceeds to defeat Pecharunt's retainers, killing them in the process. As Ogerpon drew near, the terrified Pecharunt accepted that its fate was sealed and that it lost everything. Ogerpon launched a final aerial strike to injure Pecharunt. While it launches through the air, Pecharunt used the last of its reaming energy to withdraw into its shell.

The shell fell and proceeded to roll and roll until it stopped in the nearby forest. According to the final part of the tale, Pecharunt is still out there, resting and waiting for the day it will awaken and fulfill the old couple's wish at last. At some point, the old lady found the sleeping Pecharunt and placed it in her store; {{DL|Mossui Town|Peachy's}} at [[Mossui Town]], having mistaken it for a decoration. As the years go by, the people of Kitakami call this mysterious declaration the Never-Rotting Peach.<ref name="website">[https://scarletviolet.pokemon.com/en-us/pokemon/pecharunt/ Pecharunt | Pokémon Scarlet and Pokémon Violet]</ref>

==References==
<references/>

==Related articles==
*[[Legendary Pokémon]]
*[[Mythical Pokémon]]
*[[Sinnoh myths]]
*[[History of the Pokémon world]]

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{{M05 navbox|collapse=yes}}

[[Category:Pokémon world]]
[[Category:Legendary Pokémon|*]]
[[Category:Mythical Pokémon|*]]
[[Category:Pokémon myths]]

[[es:Mitos del mundo Pokémon]]
[[it:Miti e leggende dei Pokémon leggendari e misteriosi]]

Talk:List of Pokémon by National Pokédex number/Archive 2

2024-12-12T08:07:59Z

Neos: /* Kyogre and Groudon */

== Archives ==
* [[Talk:List of Pokémon by National Pokédex number/Archive 1|Archive 1]]
__TOC__
== Gen VI ==
<s>Could Aurorus and Tyrantrum be added to the page, or will they be added after this mystery Pokémon is revealed tomorrow?</s> Scratch that. Aurorus, Tyrantrum, and Doublade need to be added. --[[User talk:Relicant|The]] [[Special:Contributions/Relicant|Truth]] aka Relicant 16:19, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

== 719, 720, 721 ==

I remember reading somewhere that someone discovered Pokemon past Zygarde. Should we add them? [[User:Liberty Bell|Liberty Bell]] ([[User talk:Liberty Bell|talk]]) 14:25, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
:We know about them, but we can't really confirm them since this time we neither can crack into the game to see all the data, nor they've been officialy revealed... at least for now. [[User:Uploader|Uploader]] ([[User talk:Uploader|talk]]) 14:39, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

== Cottonee's type change ==

Can anyone add Fairy type to Cottonee please, that's because it's evolution is also Fairy type. Thank you! [[User:Cinday123|Cinday123]] ([[User talk:Cinday123|talk]]) 06:56, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

== False typing ==

Cottonee and Whimsicott are not fairy type. Why do people keep stating that when you cannot even find them in x or y? --[[User:Admantus|Admantus]] ([[User talk:Admantus|talk]]) 19:07, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
:You can't catch them yourself, but they are used by other Trainers in battle facilities, etc. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 20:19, 1 December 2013 (UTC)

::And according to Serebii, Cottonee line is now Fairy type, however, you can't catch them in Kalos and the only way to get them is to transfer Pokémon from Black, White, Black 2 or White 2 to X or Y, this is because it is not available to catch in Kalos however you have a chance to see them in battle facilities whereas Trainers used Whimsicott. [[User:Cinday123|Cinday123]] ([[User talk:Cinday123|talk]]) 08:52, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

Well, Serebii might be wrong, because they haven't even updated the sprites for the other unobtainable pokemon that appear post-game. I think that the types should be switched back to pure grass until pokemon bank comes out. --[[User:Admantus|Admantus]] ([[User talk:Admantus|talk]]) 20:56, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

:That has nothing to do with it. I mean, the information on Bulbapedia is always confirmed information. And any information that wasn't confirmed gets removed. So, the fact that Cottonee/Whimsicott being Grass/Fairy hasn't been removed or altered back to it's original information/typing means it's been confirmed. And like [[User:Cinday123|Cinday123]] and others have said, just because you can't catch it in the Kalos region games doesn't mean you can't still obtain it. And that means, the information for Cottonee & Whimsicott are programmed in the games. So, I say let it be. [[User:DarienLeonhart|DarienLeonhart]] ([[User talk:DarienLeonhart|talk]]) 21:52, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

== Order ==

Is it just me or are the pokemon listed for gen VI out of order? Not like broken, but I see like 114 right after 93 and etc. ★☆[[User:Togetic45|'''Toge''']][[User talk:Togetic45|'''tic''']][[Special:Contributions/Togetic45|'''45''']]☆★ 18:58, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
:It's not out of order. Those are the Pokemon's Kalos Dex numbers. The list is ordered by the National Dex numbers. --[[User:Funktastic~!|'''It's''' '''Funktastic~!''']][[User talk:Funktastic~!|''話してください'']] 19:05, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

== Secret Gen 6 Pokemon ==

What about those secret Pokemon from Gen 6? The ones after Zygarde? Shouldn't they be on here now? [[User:MegaNerd18|MegaNerd18]] ([[User talk:MegaNerd18|talk]]) 11:36, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

:I'm so sorry, the Pokémon Company haven't revealed these mythical Pokémon so let's just leave it for now until it's revealed so we don't know yet. [[User:Cinday123|Cinday123]] ''([[User talk:Cinday123|Talk]])'' 12:24, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

Well I think the hacker who discovered the secret Pokemon is reliable because the Pokemon he found where: Hoopla, Volcanion, Daince, Fancy Vivillon, and the Mega Eon twins. Four out of six have revealed. If we do put in Hoopla and Volcaion when should put a little star (*) like on the list of Pokemon in the a area in the ranger game if you must release them after you catch them. --[[User:AbsolX|AbsolX]] ([[User talk:AbsolX|talk]]) 17:46, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

== Generation VI Sprites ==

Why there are no sprites for the new Pokémon introduced in X and Y? [[User:Dalton358|Dalton358]] ([[User talk:Dalton358|talk]]) 20:25, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
:Because we don't have them and we don't allow taking from other sites without permission. [[User:Glik|Glik]] ([[User talk:Glik|talk]]) 20:33, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
::I figured it would take longer to get them, because it's on a different system. I wonder how the other websites got their images. [[User:Dalton358|Dalton358]] ([[User talk:Dalton358|talk]]) 21:41, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
:::They have 3DS capture cards. Few Bulbapedia users do, and the only ones I've seen with them have been focusing on other things, like Trainer images. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 21:44, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

== Multiple Pokédeces in Generation VI ==
In the Generation VI, there are 3 Pokédeces: Kalos Central, Kalos Coastal and Kalos Mountain. For example:
# Chespin is Kalos Central #001
# Inkay is Kalos Coastal #010
# Goomy is Kalos Mountain #019
The list doesn't reflect it.

-[[User:Iosue|Iosue]] ([[User talk:Iosue|talk]]) 08:27, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
:That's because this is the National Pokédex list. You want [[List of Pokémon by Kalos Pokédex number]]. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 08:32, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
::Of course I understand that. I am not stupid. I can read. What I am suggesting is to add a very small token in front of each Kalos number to indicate if it is Central, Coastal or Mountain, as these are a part of the Generation VI dex. If there is no indication of the sub-region, the column of the table of Generation VI will have limited meaning here. I'd suggest you either delete the whole column, or add the small indication of which sub-region the number belongs to. -[[User:Iosue|Iosue]] ([[User talk:Iosue|talk]]) 04:39, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
:::This is still an issue. Scatterbug and Sligoo are still labeled with the same number in the Kalos Dex without distinction. Also, that column is labelled VIDex, which will be misleading with the release of ORAS. --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 06:55, 17 July 2014 (UTC)
::::I concur with the main issue. Don't write completely undifferentiated numbers as if all you have to do is scroll through one Pokedex to find any given Pokemon; that's not at all the case. Do something like this:
{{rdexh|X|Y|dexname={{color2|000|List of Pokémon by Kalos Pokédex number|VIdex}}}}
{{rdex|001Ce|650|Chespin|1|Grass}}
{{rdex|002Ce|651|Quilladin|1|Grass}}
|}
::::I would also strongly suggest linking the regional 'dex abbreviations in the headers so people can click on them and immediately jump to those 'dexes. (If this were done, this would make "VIdex" less "misleading".) I linked "VIdex" above, and I'll demonstrate the same for the other generations below...
{{rdexh|red|green|dexname={{color2|000|List of Pokémon by Kanto Pokédex number|Kdex}}}}
|}
{{rdexh|gold|silver|dexname={{color2|000|List of Pokémon by Johto Pokédex number|Jdex}}}}
|}
{{rdexh|ruby|sapphire|dexname={{color2|000|List of Pokémon by Hoenn Pokédex number|Hdex}}}}
|}
{{rdexh|diamond|pearl|dexname={{color2|000|List of Pokémon by Sinnoh Pokédex number|Sdex}}}}
|}
{{rdexh|black|white|dexname={{color2|000|List of Pokémon by Unova Pokédex number|Udex}}}}
|}
::::For that matter, I'd also suggest linking "Ndex" similarly in [[Template:Rdexh|the header template]] so it links easily back here on the regional 'dex pages. ...And "Type" could also be linked, just because it's the sort of thing that ''should'' be clickable. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 08:47, 17 July 2014 (UTC)
:::::This is still an issue. Scatterbug and Sligoo are still labeled with the same number in the Kalos Dex without distinction. Also, Diancie needs its Kalos Dex number added (#151 in Central). --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 09:43, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
::::::As Abcboy said, this remains an issue. I have taken the liberty of creating [[User:Tiddlywinks/List of Pokémon by National Pokédex number|a user page]] that fixes the main issue in this discussion. The page also incorporates my idea for 'dex links in the headers, as well as renames the Kalos section's table header from "VIdex", a name that is not proper considering the existence of ORAS now.
::::::I hope someone on staff will take a cursory look at my user page and then copy the code onto this page (give or take the headers, perhaps), so that this issue may finally be solved. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 21:58, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
:::::::Bump... [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 10:29, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

== Color ==

I noticed that the color coordination is not in accord with the Kalos National Pokédex. Shouldn't each region get the appropriate color attributed to them? [[User:Mr. Guye|Mr. Guye]] ([[User talk:Mr. Guye|talk]]) 20:57, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

:Interesting observation. I had never noticed the color coding in the Kalos National Pokédex before, but it's there, and is to my knowledge the first time an official source has used color coding to denote regions.
:Bulbapedia currently uses specific colors for regions, but this particular page uses the colors of the first games taking place in those regions. Perhaps the colors for the tables on this page should be replaced with the region colors. Meanwhile, replacing the region colors themselves with the ones in X and Y is a discussion that should take place but might be too big for this page. I would recommend taking that up with a staff member. --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] [[User talk:AndyPKMN|(talk)]] 18:36, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

== The icon for diancie. ==
Now that Diancie has been released, you guys need to update this page to contain the sprite for diancie so it is no longer a grey question mark. [[User:Randomviewer896|Random Viewer]]

== Flabébé line ==

We've done it for Shaymin, Burmy and Rotom (as well as others) and the sprites are in the Archives, so can an admin (since I can't edit the page) add on the different mini sprites of them, or explain to me why they aren't used on it? Thanks.--[[User:Ditto51|Ditto51/Tom]] ([[User_Talk:Ditto51|My Talk Page]]) 20:47, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

== Save space ==

Welcome. I got the idea, in which a list of Pokemon replace the tiles. It would have saved a lot of space and reduced the site to a minimum. Imagine this:
{|
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #001
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:001Bulbasaur.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Bulbasaur}}}}}
|-
| align=center style="{{roundybl|5px}} background:#{{Grass color}}" width=50% | [[Grass (type)|Grass]]
| align=center style="{{roundybr|5px}}; background:#{{Poison color}}" width=50% | [[Poison (type)|Poison]]
|}
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #002
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:002Ivysaur.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Ivysaur}}}}}
|-
| align=center style="{{roundybl|5px}} background:#{{Grass color}}" width=50% | [[Grass (type)|Grass]]
| align=center style="{{roundybr|5px}}; background:#{{Poison color}}" width=50% | [[Poison (type)|Poison]]
|}
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #003
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:003Venusaur.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Venusaur}}}}}
|-
| align=center style="{{roundybl|5px}} background:#{{Grass color}}" width=50% | [[Grass (type)|Grass]]
| align=center style="{{roundybr|5px}}; background:#{{Poison color}}" width=50% | [[Poison (type)|Poison]]
|}
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #004
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:004Charmander.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Charmander}}}}}
|-
| colspan=2 align=center style="{{roundybottom|5px}} background:#{{Fire color}}" | [[Fire (type)|Fire]]
|}
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #005
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:005Charmeleon.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Charmeleon}}}}}
|-
| colspan=2 align=center style="{{roundybottom|5px}} background:#{{Fire color}}" | [[Fire (type)|Fire]]
|}
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #006
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:006Charizard.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Charizard}}}}}
|-
| align=center style="{{roundybl|5px}} background:#{{Fire color}}" width=50% | [[Fire (type)|Fire]]
| align=center style="{{roundybr|5px}}; background:#{{Flying color}}" width=50% | [[Flying (type)|Flying]]
|}
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #007
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:007Squirtle.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Squirtle}}}}}
|-
| colspan=2 align=center style="{{roundybottom|5px}} background:#{{Water color}}" | [[Water (type)|Water]]
|}
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #008
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:008Wartortle.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Wartortle}}}}}
|-
| colspan=2 align=center style="{{roundybottom|5px}} background:#{{Water color}}" | [[Water (type)|Water]]
|}
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #009
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:009Blastoise.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Blastoise}}}}}
|-
| colspan=2 align=center style="{{roundybottom|5px}} background:#{{Water color}}" | [[Water (type)|Water]]
|}
|}

As you can see images of Pokémon will be bigger and will take less than half the length now. --[[User:Dominikololo|Dominikololo]] ([[User talk:Dominikololo|talk]]) 09:47, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

:I don't necessarily agree with this idea. It looks better and shows off a Pokémon's appearance in full instead of just resorting to the icon, yes, but it's a lot more complex to work with incase there's an error. If you want to make it, you can do it as a personal user page under something like [[User:Dominikololo/Visual National Pokédex]] just to give us a full example. [[User:Superjustinbros.|Superjustinbros.]] ([[User talk:Superjustinbros.|talk]]) 03:30, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

== Generation III ==

Considering the fact the Johto Pokédex part of the Gen II Pokémon section was updated to the newer version from HG/SS, it's probably best we update Hoenn's under the Gen III Pokémon section to the one from ΩR/αS. [[User:Nintendocan|Nintendocan]] ([[User talk:Nintendocan|talk]]) 00:17, 25 December 2014 (UTC)

== Hoopa Unbound and Dex numbers ==

Hoopa's Unbound form needs to be added. Diancie, Hoopa and Volcanion's Dex numbers also. [[User:Asmod96|Asmod96]] ([[User talk:Asmod96|talk]]) 16:09, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

{{rdexh|X|Y|VI}}
{{rdex|150|718|Zygarde|2|Dragon|Ground}}
{{rdex|151|719|Diancie|2|Rock|Fairy}}
{{rdex|152|720|Hoopa|2|Psychic|Ghost}}
{{rdex|152|720U|Hoopa|2|Psychic|Dark}}
{{rdex|153|721|Volcanion|2|Fire|Water}}
|}

== Sun and Moon Legendary Mascots ==

Can someone who has access to editing this page add [http://www.serebii.net/news/2016/20-April-2016.shtml Solgaleo and Lunaala] to the Gen VII list? They have been revealed along with the Alola starters, but remained nameless in the video. --[[User:PKMNAdventurer|PKMNAdventurer]] ([[User talk:PKMNAdventurer|talk]]) 23:16, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
:As you say, they are nameless. Until there is confirmation, we will not be assuming their names. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 23:26, 10 May 2016 (UTC)

== Charjabug and Vikavolt ==

Shouldn't Charjabug and Vikavolt be immediately after Grubbin, seeing as they're its evolutions? [[User:Pokemega32|Pokemega32]] ([[User talk:Pokemega32|talk]]) 13:55, 1 July 2016 (UTC)
:I noticed that too; I think whoever renamed/added them meant to move both Rockruff and Komala down, but somehow missed Rockruff... [[User:AmoongussForLife|AmoongussForLife]] ([[User talk:AmoongussForLife|talk]]) 14:14, 1 July 2016 (UTC)
::Just went to look at it and it seems SnorlaxMonster got it covered. Thanks for pointing it out. Too bad we don't know anything about their official numbering yet, but I guess they want to keep some things (how many 'Mons, for instance" a secret, so meh. [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 17:32, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

== Hippowdon ==

If Unfezant and Frillish line are included twice for both genders, shouldn't Hippowdon be added as well? Their appearance is quite different as well.
Same goes for several other cases, if Hoopa and Meloetta have their forms added, why not Keldeo or Kami trio? Who decides what should appear and what shouldn't, and by what rule??? {{unsigned|KingisNitro}}
:The Hippos, it may be because official art (see [[Hippopotas (Pokémon)]], the big image at the top) AFAIK has never depicted the female forms, while for {{p|Frillish}} and {{p|Unfezant}} it has.
:The difference between Hoopa and Meoetta vs Keldeo and the Kami trio may be that the former change types when they change form. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 16:35, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
::Another contributing reason is that the game does not have gender-specific menu sprites for the Hippopotas family. Together with the lack of a type difference between genders, adding a seperate row for the other gender will not accomplish anything content-wise. [[User:Chenzw|Chenzw]] ([[User talk:Chenzw|talk]]) 16:49, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
:::Basculin is also listed twice, by the way. Vivillon, that also changes menu sprite depending on forms, is only included once (understandably because of how many form differences it has).
:::I mean I was mostly asking, so thanks for "justifying" it. Also, regarding whether it adds anything content-wise - except for the type changing forms, nothing really adds any content (Frillish, Hippos, Unfezant, Basculin, Vivillon), which is why I was puzzled. Didn't seem like there was any actual reason to include multiples. But I guess Sugimori arts are a good enough reason (I just couldn't figure it out). {{unsigned|KingisNitro}}

== Alolan ==

Someone needs to add the recently revealed Pokemon, which I assume would include Alolan Forms (as they all change type.) [[User:AmoongussForLife|AmoongussForLife]] ([[User talk:AmoongussForLife|talk]]) 17:32, 1 August 2016 (UTC)

:No, I think this page is better suited for the Pokémon with their natural Pokémon types to help prevent the page from getting too messy or confusing. This is why separate sub-pages are better suited to handling this such as the [[Mega Evolution]] page. -[[User:Tyler53841|Tyler53841]] ([[User talk:Tyler53841|talk]]) 00:37, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
::FWIW, the Alola Forms' types are no less natural than the forms we've always known. That said, we haven't yet decided whether we want the Alola Forms here or not. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 00:41, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
:::I would think that the Alolan Forms should be added, as the type changes, it appears the Pokémon don't switch between the two (an Ice/Fairy Ninetales would have Ice Vulpix), and multiple entries are added for Darmanitan, which is a similar case. I suppose the second point is mostly speculation at this point, though, but I don't think it would hurt the page overall. [[User:AmoongussForLife|AmoongussForLife]] ([[User talk:AmoongussForLife|talk]]) 01:06, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

== Wimpod's types ==

[[Wimpod]]'s types are Bug/Water, not Water/Bug. Someone should fix it. --[[User:rafael.zinho|rafael.zinho]] ([[User talk:rafael.zinho|talk]]) 03:09, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
:Fixed. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 03:23, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

== Wishiwashi, Pyukumuku, and Morelull ==

This page still lists the japanese names even though the English names are revealed and confirmed and the pages for them use the English names. [[User:AztecCroc|AztecCroc]] ([[User talk:AztecCroc|talk]]) 14:16, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

== Rugarugan ==

Someone needs to add Rugarugan after Rockruff; it's been over a day. [[User:AmoongussForLife|AmoongussForLife]] ([[User talk:AmoongussForLife|talk]]) 17:19, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
:I will try see if I can. [[User:Awesomevenustoise101|Awesomevenustoise101]] ([[User talk:Awesomevenustoise101|talk]]) 17:22, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
::never mind I didn't know that the page is protected. [[User:Awesomevenustoise101|Awesomevenustoise101]] ([[User talk:Awesomevenustoise101|talk]]) 17:23, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
:::It hasn't been added because there is no page for it and it hasn't been officially revealed, it was leaked. The admins know what they are doing and it will be added when it gets added. --[[User:HoennMaster|Hoenn]][[User talk:HoennMaster|Master]] 17:25, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

== why is this page protected? ==

why is this page protected? I want to add Rugarugan after Rockruff but I can't. [[User:Awesomevenustoise101|Awesomevenustoise101]] ([[User talk:Awesomevenustoise101|talk]]) 17:25, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
:Most of the time it doesn't need to be changed, and when it does, we don't want people jumping the gun on rumors and stuff. Things like this we (as staff) update it when it's appropriate to do so. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 17:48, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

== Rowlet National dex number and menu sprites ==

On the [http://www.pokemon-sunmoon.com/en-us/pokemon-bank/ Pokémon Bank page] on the official site, menu sprites for several Gen VII Pokémon have been shown, and Rowlet have been confirmed as #722. Here's direct links for the relevant images: [http://www.pokemon-sunmoon.com/media/uploads/sept_20_assets/screenshots/top/sept20_p12_01_en.png Top screen], [http://www.pokemon-sunmoon.com/media/uploads/sept_20_assets/screenshots/bottom/sept20_p12_01_en.png Bottom screen] - [[User:RHeegaard|RHeegaard]] ([[User talk:RHeegaard|talk]]) 00:21, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

:I'm assuming that the reason only Rowlet, Litten, Popplio, and Pikipek were uploaded is because they are the only ones with numbers (I am curious where you got official evidence of Litten, Popplio, and Pikipek's numbers though?), but would it not be possible to upload the others as "DrampaMS.png" and such so that they can be listed? It would make the table easier to read, I think. It's also what we do with artwork (whereas Pikachu's artwork is [[a:File:025Pikachu.png|File:025Pikachu.png]], Drampa's is [[a:File:Drampa.png|File:Drampa.png]]), so it's not like it goes against Bulbapedia's other efforts. [[User:Nutter Butter|Nutter Butter]] ([[User talk:Nutter Butter|talk]]) 03:05, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
::In large part, most places where menu sprites are used simply ''cannot'' accomodate filenames like DrampaMS (this page being an excellent example of such a place). The few places it might be usable aren't really worth it. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 03:20, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

== Additions ==

Can we add: [[Steenee (Pokémon)]], [[Tsareena (Pokémon)]], [[Hakamo-o (Pokémon)]], [[Ribombee (Pokémon)]]? [[User:Kidburla|Kidburla]] ([[User talk:Kidburla|talk]]) 14:01, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
:They've already been added. --[[User:Carmenstar97|Carmen★]] ''[[User talk:Carmenstar97|(Talk |]] [[Special:Contributions/Carmenstar97|contribs)]]'' 14:02, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
::Thanks. Seems they were added while I was typing the post. [[User:Kidburla|Kidburla]] ([[User talk:Kidburla|talk]]) 16:44, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
:::For future reference, if you just wait, someone will almost assuredly get to it soon enough. (I mean, if someone asked this every time there was a new reveal, this page would probably quickly end up bloated.) If it's 24 hours later, ''then'' it's late. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 16:50, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

== Oricorio ==

How come {{p|Castform}} has all of its forms on the list but {{p|Oricorio}} doesn't? --[[User:PKMNAdventurer|PKMNAdventurer]] ([[User talk:PKMNAdventurer|talk]]) 00:06, 6 January 2017 (UTC)
:Personally, it could be due to the criteria, but I cannot tell. So, here is a hopefully complete list of what Pokémon with multiple menu sprites appear and which do not.
:From the group that does appear: Unfezant (Gender difference), Frillish (Gender), Jellicent (Gender), Castform (Ability), Deoxys (Form), Burmy (Form), Wormadam (Form), Shellos (Form), Gastrodon (Form), Rotom (Form), Giratina (Item), Shaymin (Item), Basculin (Form), Darmanitan (Ability), Meloetta (Move), Hoopa (Item), All Alolan Pokémon (Form)
:From the group that does ''not'' appear: Pyroar (Gender difference), Meowstic (Gender), Ash-Greninja (Ability), Zygarde (Forme), Kyurem (Item), Cosplay Pikachu (Form), Pikachu (Unknown), Spiky-eared Pichu (Form), Unown (Form), Cherrim (Ability), Arceus (Item), Flabébé (Form), Floette (Form), Florges (Form), Deerling (Form), Sawsbuck (Form), Tornadus (Item), Thundurus (Item), Landorus (Item), Keldeo (Move), Vivillon (Form), Furfrou (Form), Aegislash (Ability), Oricorio (Item), Silvally (Item), Minior (Ability), All Mega/Primal Evolution Pokémon (Item/Move),
:...So, basically, I would guess that this might have been potentially overlooked. Who is to say? Granted, I do understand that Unown, Vivillon, Arceus, and Silvally likely are excluded for a good reason. --[[User:Super goku|Super goku]] ([[User talk:Super goku|talk]]) 07:19, 6 January 2017 (UTC)
::IMO, there definitely should be Oricorio with all its form, I thought that only forms with different type combination are added, but if there are also some gender differences... I even think there should be Mega Evolutions, if we will be adding forms. [[User:Asmod96|Asmod96]] ([[User talk:Asmod96|talk]]) 08:13, 16 February 2017 (UTC)
:::Most of these are probably missing because, as was mentioned in my "Hippowdon" question, they don't have official Sugimori art. Frillish has official art for both genders, while Hippowdon doesn't, hence it doesn't get two pictures. P weird reasonong, but I guess it works; Oricorio DOES have official art (in fact, most mentioned Pokemon do) and the forms change typing (good enough reason if you ask me), so I think someone should add them. Also, why can't we merge the forms into a single line (similarly to [[Pokémon with unique type combinations]] page)? {{unsigned|KingisNitro}}
::::The most important thing to remember, I think, is that this is a list of Pokémon species. It's not a list of minisprites. It's not even a list of Pokémon's types—those are included supplementarily. And it's ''certainly'' not a list of Ken Sugimori art.
::::On that note, I think the inclusion and exclusion of form differences should follow a less horrendously arbitrary standard. Either A) all forms with unique minisprites or types are included, or B) only one form per species is included, determined by a consistent criterion. If we go with A, I absolutely agree with KingisNitro that they should be merged into a single row, since it makes no sense to list the same species multiple times in a list of species. If we go B, I propose that the criterion be "whichever form is leftmost in Pokémon Bank's National Pokédex", since this is consistently a form that can be considered the most basic or "default".
::::So the question is, A or B? Should we put it up to a vote? [[User:Randomwaffle23|Randomwaffle23]] ([[User talk:Randomwaffle23|talk]]) 02:27, 4 September 2017 (UTC)
:::::I am going to mention that this technically is over six month old, but I will say that if anyone wants to put this up for a vote or needs to make a new section to discuss this can go ahead. Though, I do want to note that we now have issues with Pokémon like Togekiss who have two menu sprites just for which side they are facing. --[[User:Super goku|Super goku]] ([[User talk:Super goku|talk]]) 07:05, 14 September 2017 (UTC)
:This is still not "fixed". If castform's forms count then I really do think many of the others should be included as well. Maybe not all Unown or Vivillon forms since they're purely cosmetic. I do think forms that change type or stats should be included (like Necrozma or Zygarde forms...) -[[User:Jor1ss|Jor1ss]] ([[User talk:Jor1ss|talk]]) 17:04, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
::So, personally, I'm sorry that this keeps getting forgotten. On the other hand, even now, I can't muster enough of myself to "care" about it to check everything and do it up right... If someone wants to create a user page, we can look at it and see what's different and decide how much should be added. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 22:44, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
:::I'd love to help with adding them but maybe I can't because my account is only 1 day old? I'm also not sure what having a userpage would do for adding to the list? Isn't a userpage just a page for each user? I'm very new here so I don't really know what to do sorry. -[[User:Jor1ss|Jor1ss]] ([[User talk:Jor1ss|talk]]) 06:48, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

==Alola==

At the very top of the page, it still doesn't list Alola with the rest of the regions. [[User:AmoongussForLife|AmoongussForLife]] ([[User talk:AmoongussForLife|talk]]) 10:53, 17 January 2017 (UTC)

== Alolan Pokedex number of new Pokemon ==

The ADex numbers of Poipole, Naganadel, Stakataka, Blacephalon, and Zeraora should be changed to 261, 262, 392, 393, and 403 respectively. [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 18:13, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
:I'm not sure if this kind of a "noisy post" or "bump" is allowed, but I need to somehow get someone to pay attention to this. [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 02:00, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

== Gliscor sprite missing ==

the Gliscor Sprite is missing, can't edit to put it in [[User:Yamitora1|Yamitora1]] ([[User talk:Yamitora1|talk]]) 17:57, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

That's just an error on your end. [[User:AztecCroc|AztecCroc]] ([[User talk:AztecCroc|talk]]) 22:04, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

== Spin-off Pokedexes? ==

Sort of an off-topic but idk where else to ask; do we have Pokedexes for side/spin-off games (Rumble, Mystery Dungeon, Pinball, Ranger, Trozei/Shuffle...)? I think it would be neat to list the Pokemon with places to find them/other important information. If so - where, if not - why? If I made them on my page, could they be added to Bulba? (Where else can I ask this question?) ~[[User:KingisNitro|'''KingisNitro''']] ([[User talk:KingisNitro|talk]]) 01:04, 12 November 2018 (UTC)
:As seen in the List of Pokémon template below the articles, yes, we do have Pokédex listing of other/spin-off games. Unless there's another listing you want to suggest.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 03:32, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

== Meltan and Melmetal should not be under "generation VII" category ==

Officially, meltan and melmetal are under the region "unknown" and as such they should both be under that new category. furthermore, their pokedex numbers are 808 and 809 officially too.
{{unsigned|Supermassimo}}
:Well, I see what you mean but this list is sorted by generation. And those Pokémon were indeed introduced in the generation it says they were. --[[User:Raltseye|Raltseye]] [[User talk:Raltseye|prata med mej]] 14:08, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

::By that logic though, shouldn't Marill and Togepi be listed as generation 1 pokemon, Munchlax as a generation 3 pokemon and Magearna as a generation 6 pokemon? In fact, every single generation other than the first had a pokemon revealed in some medium before the release of the main games and this is especially true of mythicals. (Victini is in a similar situation to Meltan being listed just after the gen 4 mythicals and before the gen 5 starters even though it is considered gen 5 itself)

::In fact, the only difference is that all these other pokemon were typically revealed in movies or the anime whereas Meltan/Melmetal are playable in Pokemon Go/Let's Go. That said, these are still just spinoff games (which actually don't even have any other gen 7 pokemon in them other than alolan forms) and neither Meltan nor Melmetal are available in any mainline gen 7 games. Finally, Pokemon Go goes as far as to classify Meltan's region as "Unknown" whereas it could have easily been listed as Alola if it was intended to be a gen 7 pokemon. (And Magearna has nothing to do with either Kalos nor Alola but is still classified as "Gen 7" in the Sun/Moon pokedex.

::Sorry, for the long rant but my point is that strictly speaking the situation for Meltan/Melmetal is "Unknown" and ideally this should be reflected on the page to avoid speculating. However, if people insist on assigning a region/generation to it, I think it's far more likely to be "Galar"/"Gen 8" and not "Alola". Just my 2 cents. [[User:MCX|MCX]] ([[User talk:MCX|talk]]) 21:52, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
:::I would agree with your logic if not for your assumption that LGPE are not mainline games. They are core Pokémon games, which has been reiterated multiple times by Masuda and the others at GF. Since they’re catchable and playable in a mainline Gen VII game, they’re Gen VII Pokémon. That’s what separates them from cases like Bonsly, which I think would have been a much better example than Marill or Munchlax. --[[User:Celadonkey|celadonk]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 12:47, 18 March 2019 (UTC)
::::I'm still not convinced that it's relevant nor that it's the case that LGPE are core titles. I'm not sure which interview you are referring to when saying that Masuda has stated that LGPE are core games but afaik Sword and Shield were first announced as the unnamed 2019 mainline Switch games in e3 2017. Then LGPE were announced at a later time and people were giving GF crap until they clarified that LGPE weren't the same as the previously announced 2019 titles. Correct me if I remember any of this incorrectly but if not, this would indicate that LGPE are something less than core games. If LGPE are core games that's the equivalent of GF announcing Sun/Moon after XY and then saying "oh btw, before SM we are gonna release gen 3 remakes, they aren't the same games as SM, we just thought we should announce gen 7 first." Yeah, LGPE are much closer gameplay-wise to the core games than, say, mystery dungeon or pokemon pinball but they are also not quite there.

::::Moreover, even if Masuda has said in an interview "LGPE are core titles", I'm still not sure if that is relevant in classifying Meltan's gen. LGPE don't have Crobat or Electivire or any gen 2-7 pokemon but they have Megas and Alolan forms and Meltan. This is just a weird situation where they used Meltan as a promo thing - not at all an indication that it's gen 7. They've even dropped mainline mechanics like breeding and abilities... Meltan being there doesn't conclusively prove anything. I doubt we will get any official statement like "Btw Meltan belongs in X gen" but we are still probably going to get a conclusive answer when they colour code Meltan along with either the gen 7 or gen 8 pokemon in some future title's pokedex. I'm just saying that until then we should keep its status as "Unknown" because that's what it currently is. [[User:MCX|MCX]] ([[User talk:MCX|talk]]) 23:49, 26 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::You can check the interview section in the LGPE guidebook if you don't believe that he explicitly has said that they're core titles. "These games aren't spinoffs. These are core Pokémon titles" is the exact quote. Since Meltan and Melmetal appeared in Gen 7 core titles, they're Gen 7 Pokemon. Simple enough. If for whatever reason they change that, then we'll change that too. But we don't really have any reason to believe otherwise. --[[User:Celadonkey|celadonk]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 23:56, 26 March 2019 (UTC)

== Request to add Trivia section ==

I would like to see a Trivia section added to the bottom of the list, with the following single item:

* With the sole exception of {{p|Type: Null}}, all English Pokémon names in this list are also used for Italian and Spanish languages. The names for '''Type: Null''' in Italian and Spanish are, respectively, ''Tipo Zero'' and ''Código Cero''.

This is to avoid the need for any separate '''List of Italian Pokémon names''' and '''List of Spanish Pokémon names''' pages that would differ from this English page by ONLY ONE ROW. ''(Currently, those two page titles are redirects to the English list.)'' --[[User:SilSinn9801|''SilSinn'']] ([[TID]]s: '''768426[[Pokémon Sun|S]]''', '''123446[[Pokémon Ultra Moon|UM]]''') ([[User talk:SilSinn9801|talk]]) 10:01, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

==Gen 8 Starters==
Grookey, Scorbunny, and Sobble would be National Pokedex 810, 813, and 816. Can these numbers please be added? [[User:Kimichael4317|Kimichael4317]] ([[User talk:Kimichael4317|talk]]) 05:38, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
:We do not actually ''know'' that so no, they won't be added. --[[User:Raltseye|Raltseye]] [[User talk:Raltseye|prata med mej]] 05:43, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
::We have no guarantee as to whether there would be another Victini-like scenario where a Mythical Pokémon would be enumerated right before the starters (as happened in Unova, twice). Hence why we cannot safely assume 810, 813, 816 – it could end up being 811, 814, 817. ‑‑[[User:SilSinn9801|''SilSinn'']] ([[TID]]s: '''768426[[Pokémon Sun|S]]''', '''123446[[Pokémon Ultra Moon|UM]]''') [[User talk:SilSinn9801|💬]] 07:52, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

== Zekrom has an extra space next to his name. ==

That is all. {{unsigned|MrKarato}}
:Fixed. And don't forget to sign your comments.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 06:01, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

== Handling forms + smaller suggestions ==

As far as I can tell there's no pattern to how forms are handled on this page. Some Pokémon with alternate forms or major gender differences have their forms present, others do not. Frankly, since it’s a list of Pokémon species according to their number, no Pokémon with form differences should be even included in a different line. Either the alternate forms should be removed entirely, only including the “base” form, or the lines should be combined like on List of Pokémon with unique type combinations. Personally, I'd prefer to have no forms displayed-- it would make the page a whole lot cleaner and easier to use-- but I can see the purpose of displaying forms, so I think that something like this would be best:

{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{firered color}}; background: #{{firered color}}"
! style="{{roundytl|5px}}; background: #{{leafgreen color light}}" | Kdex
! style="background: #{{leafgreen color light}}" | Ndex
! style="background: #{{leafgreen color light}}" | MS
! style="background: #{{leafgreen color light}}" | Pokémon
! style="{{roundytr|5px}}; background: #{{leafgreen color light}}" colspan="2" | Type</noinclude>
|- style="background:#FFF"
| rowspan="2" style="font-family:monospace" | <nowiki>#</nowiki>026
| rowspan="2" style="font-family:monospace" | <nowiki>#</nowiki>026
| {{MSP|026|Raichu}}
| rowspan="2" | {{p|Raichu}}
| colspan="2" style="text-align:center; background:#{{electric color}}" | [[Electric (type)|Electric]]
|- style="background:#FFF"
| {{MSP|026A|Raichu}}
| style="text-align:center; background:#{{electric color}}" | [[Electric (type)|Electric]]
| style="text-align:center; background:#{{psychic color}}" | [[Psychic (type)|Psychic]]
|}

Again, I think that not displaying forms would be the best way to go, but either way, the current system of handling forms is unsatisfactory, both in the inconsistency between which forms are shown and which are not, and in the actual formatting of the forms.

Additionally, I have two smaller suggestions. First, I believe that it would be better to display the National Pokédex number before the regional Pokédex number, rather than vice versa, as this is a page on the National Pokédex, and that should take priority. Second, at the end of each section, there is no roundy template on the bottom, as you can see above, which makes the bottom of each section square and not as aesthetically pleasing. --[[User:Celadonkey|celadonk]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 20:05, 29 March 2019 (UTC)

The problem with formes/forms is that there's many different kinds of forms. There's only visual forms (most male female differences/unown forms etc) and there's forms where the stats change (meowstic male/female for instance). There's forms where the typing changes (Wormadom/Necrozma's various forms). There's temporary forms that are only visible in battle (megas/greninja/cherubi). There's temporary forms that are changed by using an item or by depositing the pokemon or by whatever arbitrary reason (giratina/tornadus etc.). There's also regional forms, where a pokemon cannot change to the other form but is basically a different pokemon altogether (alolan and soon galarian forms). Maybe the list should just include all the base forms? And then there could be a seperate table listing all the additional forms for a pokemon?[[User:Jor1ss|Jor1ss]] ([[User talk:Jor1ss|talk]]) 12:40, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

== Information to readers ==

I want to modify the title section, but I have no permission. Could someone add the sentence “All English, Italian and Spanish Pokémon names are identical, but, depending on the language, they're pronounced differently.”? --[[User:TheICTLiker4|'''TheICT''']][[User talk:TheICTLiker4|'''Liker4''']] 18:19, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
:That's not relevant to the article at all.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 04:13, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
::Well, most european languages use the same names as the English version anyway, in fact only German and French are the the ones that consistently differ. Unless you count the languages that use a different alphabet, only Serbian, Lithuanian and some more perhaps are the only ones that does not use the standard English names instead transcribing it to their own orthography. So I see no really point in mentioned them all here. A simple line like <code>most other languages using the Latin alphabet also uses these names</code> would suffice in my opinion.
::I'm thinking maybe if it's okay with the staff around to make redirect for <code>List of Swedish/Icelandic/Spanish/Romanian/etc. Pokémon names</code> to this page.
::Otherwise, if you're interested, at least one Spanish and Italian name do actually differ from the English name, {{p|Type: Null}}. I've made list articles about which names I have found being used in other languages [[User:Raltseye/Template:Pokelist|here]].
::--[[User:Raltseye|Raltseye]] [[User talk:Raltseye|prata med mej]] 13:43, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

== Yamper and Impidimp ==

They're not on here for some reason? Can someone who can edit this page fix that?[[User:AztecCroc|AztecCroc]] ([[User talk:AztecCroc|talk]]) 13:33, 15 June 2019 (UTC)

== Aug 7 Trailer - New Pokémon ==

In the newest trailer, two new Pokémon (Obstagoon and Morpeko), as well as the Galarian forms of Weezing, Zigzagoon, and Linoone were revealed. I don't see them listed on this page yet, those Impidimp, which has still not been officially revealed is. [[User:CMP|CMP]] ([[User talk:CMP|talk]]) 18:46, 9 August 2019 (UTC)

== Missing ==

Currently, Galarian Meowth is missing from this list. [[User:MarioMiner|MarioMiner]] ([[User talk:MarioMiner|talk]]) 03:00, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

== Dex Shortcuts ==

Can we get the dex shortcuts removed or redirected correctly? They're just redirecting to the top of this page. [[User:Joe kik as|Joe kik as]] ([[User talk:Joe kik as|talk]]) 17:33, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
:That's the point of the shortcuts. They're just redirects of this article, and they're there for reference.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 04:32, 15 January 2020 (UTC)
::But why is it at the top of the page if it's just redirecting to the top. If anything it should redirect to different pages corresponding to those links. [[User:Joe kik as|Joe kik as]] ([[User talk:Joe kik as|talk]]) 16:32, 15 January 2020 (UTC)
:::I already said why, they're there for reference. To let users know which shortcut to type out in the search bar if they wanted to find this article easier (since typing out the entire title would be a hassle). The other dex listings also have shortcuts that lead to their respective articles.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 16:55, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

== Ndex as the first column ==

I think the Ndex number should probably be the first column. This is the main subject of this list.

The Ndex is currently the 2nd column, which seems like a secondary position. (even though in the case of the first 151 Pokémon, the numbers are the same) --[[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 10:14, 31 January 2020 (UTC)
:{{template|rdex}} is convenient. I don't think it's that big an issue to make another template just for this. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 03:23, 1 February 2020 (UTC)
::I'm with Daniel here. This is a list of Pokemon by National Pokedex number. Surely that should be the primary focus. --[[User:Celadonkey|celadonk]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 18:19, 1 February 2020 (UTC)
:::I could do the job of creating a new template and editing this page if this idea is accepted. It could be simply a new template based on {{template|rdex}} with reverse parameters. A possible name could be {{Red link|Template:nrdex|<code><nowiki>{{</nowiki>nrdex<nowiki>}}</nowiki></code>}} (since {{template|ndex}} is taken) .--[[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 00:50, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
::::The header is the only thing here that would need to be changed if this were to be done. --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 01:05, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
:::::Aside from that, we may also want to reverse the order of the numbers for each Pokémon in [[List of Pokémon by National Pokédex number]], to make the wikitext match the resulting page. I can do this if needed. --[[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 02:38, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

== Pokémon with different forms not present in the list ==

I don't understand the criteria for Pokémon with different forms, by the type of them:

Gender differences : We do not include the forms of Indeedee, Pyroar and Meowstic, But we allow Unfezant, Frillish and Jellycent?

Different permanent forms but with the same typing: Lycanrock and Toxtricity. But it allows other permanent forms, e.g. Shellos, Gastrodont and Basculin.

Different Forms and different types: Kyurem and Necruzma. But allows Castform, Rotom, Melloeta, Hoopa, Shaymin and Oricorio.

Different Battle forms but same types: Wishiwashi, Cherrim, Landorus, Thundurus, Tornadus, Kyurem, Keldeo, Greninja, Zygarde and Minior are not included. But Deoxis and Gyratina are on the list.

No applicable to the above criteria: Unown, Arceus, Deerling, Sawsbuck, Vivillon, The Flabébé Family and Furfrou. But we do have Burmy and Wormadam and Urshifu. (I understand that the Pokémon in this las criteria have a lot of forms, and that the reason of not their including is for space and order in the page)

Can some one please explain me the criteria for allowing the different forms selection?

--Neos 10:19, April 16 2020 (UTC)
:Yeah, it does seem rather arbitrary to me.

:I think I've mentioned this above but this page is a list of Pokemon by number first and foremost. Including forms at all, imo, muddles the numbering up, at least for me. --[[User:Celadonkey|celadonk]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 13:48, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

::I think we should take out the unnecessary forms --[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 00:36, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

== You forgot NDex# of Galarian Slowking ==

Force Fire: You added NDex numbers for Galarian forms of Slowbro & the Legendary Birds (even if no menu sprites exist for them yet), but you forgot Galarian Slowking:
<pre>{{rdex||???|Slowking|1|???}}</pre>
Given this page is protected, I cannot change the page myself; could you please provisionally change that line to:
<pre>{{rdex||199G|Slowking|1|???}}</pre>
‐⁠‑''[[User:SilSinn9801|SilSinn]]'' ([[TID]]s: '''768426[[Pokémon Sun|S]]''', '''123446[[Pokémon Ultra Moon|UM]]''') [[User talk:SilSinn9801|💬]] 17:01, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
:Fixed --[[User:Spriteit|Spriteit]] ([[User talk:Spriteit|talk]]) 01:21, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
::This page needs to be edited as Galarian Slowking's type was confirmed to be Poison/Psychic like Galarian Slowbro was. [[User:Kangaflora|Kangaflora]] ([[User talk:Kangaflora|talk]]) 19:01, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

== 891-893 ==

Pokemon Home's Pokedex , after this morning's patch, seems to confirm that Kubfu, Urshifu, and Zarude are numbers 891, 892, and 893 respectively. That is all. Sorry if this text is really big for some reason.{{unsigned|Zigzagoon97}}

== (Understandable) Style Inconsistencies ==

To be consistent with the style of the page before the Crown Tundra was released, only Calyrex's base form should be present, as neither Kyurem (which, admittedly, does not change type) nor Necrozma (which does change type, and thus should be treated exactly the same way as Calyrex) have their fusion forms present on this list. Alternatively, including Necrozma's forms, and possibly Kyurem's forms, would solve this issue. [[User:MarioMiner|MarioMiner]] ([[User talk:MarioMiner|talk]]) 22:58, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
:Another style inconsistency - in the Generation IV section of the page, Heatran, Regigigas, Cresselia, Phione, Darkrai, Shaymin, and Arceus, the Gen IV Pokémon without Sinnoh Pokédex numbers, have their portions of the "Sdex" column blank. However, Meltan, Melmetal, Kubfu, Urshifu, Zarude, Regieleki, Regidrago, Glastrier, Spectrier, and Calyrex, all Pokémon that do not appear in their respective generations' regional Pokédexes, have "#---" in their regional Pokédex (Adex for Meltan and Melmetal, Gdex for the rest) columns. [[User:MarioMiner|MarioMiner]] ([[User talk:MarioMiner|talk]]) 00:06, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

== Zygarde's Forms ==
Zygard seems to be the only Pokémon currently missing alternate forms.
[[User:RomajiMiltonAmulo|RomajiMiltonAmulo]] ([[User talk:RomajiMiltonAmulo|talk]]) 01:45, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

== Legends: Arceus Pokémon ==

Are the Pokémon and Regional Forms that were shown in the new [[Pokémon Legends: Arceus]] trailer going to be added now or when the game releases? -[[User:Ratboy Jr.|Ratboy Jr.]] ([[User talk:Ratboy Jr.|talk]]) 22:40, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

== Mega Aerodactyl needs to be added. ==

A couple Megas were forgotten to be added. Could you please scout through and add them? {{unsigned|Necrozma800}}
:They are left out for a reason, Mega Evolutions are not completely new species, they are a transformed state of the same base species.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 07:06, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

== Legends arceus pokemon ==

We need numbers for Basculegion, wyrdeer, Kleavor, we need these pokemon added Overqwil, Enamorus, Ursaluna, and Sneasler. Dex numbers (national) are : 899 is Wyrdeer 900 is Kleavor 901 is Ursaluna 902 is Basculegion 903 is Sneasler 904 is Overqwil, 905 is Enamorus, so yeah [[User:ItsRobloxHere|ItsRobloxHere]] ([[User talk:ItsRobloxHere|talk]]) 00:24, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

== H.Goodra's typing ==

it should be Steel/Dragon, not Dragon/Steel.
[[User:Anzasquiddles|Anzasquiddles]] ([[User talk:Anzasquiddles|talk]]) 05:56, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

== Hisuian Braviary's MSP, and Origin Formes for Dialga and Palkia ==

Well, the second point is more of a question. I see there's plenty of contention on the matter of form-inclusion, but Giratina's Origin Forme is on the list so I thought I'd mention it.
[[User:Pichugetic|Pichugetic]] ([[User talk:Pichugetic|talk]]) 01:06, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

: Oh, just noticed: also Hisuian Avalugg. [[User:Pichugetic|Pichugetic]] ([[User talk:Pichugetic|talk]]) 07:31, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

== Unfezant, Frillish and Jellycent: only one entry per Pokémon? ==

For the majority of Pokémon, only the male appearence is shown. However, it does not apply for Shellos, Gastrodon, Unfezant, Frillish and Jellycent. Shellos and Gastrodon are region-based in several (all?) games, so displaying both appearances is justified, but it does not apply for Unfezant, Frillish and Jellycent. So is there something special about those 3 Pokémon that grants 2 entries for each of them in the list? [[User:Y2110|Y2110]] ([[User talk:Y2110|talk]]) 11:42, 21 May 2022 (UTC)

EDIT: Oh, it has already been discussed on this page. My bad

== 3D Sprites ==
[[File:001MS8.png|thumb|right|68px|SwSh Bulbasaur (68px)]]
[[File:902MS.png|thumb|right|68px|PLA Basculegion (68px)]]
[[File:HOME001.png|thumb|right|60px|HOME Bulbasaur (60px)]]
[[File:HOME902.png|thumb|right|60px|HOME Basculegion (60px)]]

Why have the 2D sprites been changed to the 3D Pokemon Home ones? The 3D sprites mesh horribly with the tables and lists, take up too much space, and have too much color and detail making it hard to focus on anything but the sprites themselves. I can understand wanting to upgrade but sometimes less is more especially for someone who has sensitive eyes or ADHD. There could at least be an option to select whether you what to view 2D or 3D sprites.[[User:Strawhatroger|Strawhatroger]] ([[User talk:Strawhatroger|talk]]) 16:57, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
:It's a necessity. We already had too much inconsistency between sprites from SwSh, LGPE, PLA and older ones, soon we'll get another ones for SV which would make it even worse. Fortunately HOME sprite are very consistent and exist for alternate forms. They don't take more space because previously we already had big 68px squares.--'''[[User:Team Rocket Grunt|Rocket]] [[User talk:Team Rocket Grunt|Grunt]]''' 17:34, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

The HOME sprites pop out way too much and are too bright hurting my eyes making it very difficult to do thing like look at lists without straining my eyes.[[User:Strawhatroger|Strawhatroger]] ([[User talk:Strawhatroger|talk]]) 17:55, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

::I've added some Bulbasaur and Basculegion image examples at the top of this discussion now.
::As TRG was saying, the list with 2D sprites was using inconsistent styles (including 2D sprites from SwSh like that Bulbasaur, and 3D face portraits from PLA like that Basculegion). We may have 2D sprites for most of the currently available Pokémon, but not all of them.
::Since you mentioned the size, let me point out that those 2D sprites typically were 68px images with white space around the Pokémon (a lot of white space in my opinion). I've changed them to those 3D images with 60px size, so they are occupying less space than before.
::For instance, it seems there are at least 1,000 lines on these tables, so the page should be approximately 8,000 pixels shorter than before with the current 3D sprites.
::Although to be fair, the image size can be changed in the template so it could become smaller or larger if needed. If anyone thinks that the 2D sprites with a lot of whitespace around looked good, it's also possible to add whitespace around the 3D images (without needing to edit the images). --[[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 18:43, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

:::Did someone reverted the 3D sprites? now they are back to the 2D ones.
:::I really support the idea of using the HOME menu sprites for this page and for what I have seen in the latest SV trailers the classic Menu minisprites are now gone. So by using as the source of sprites HOME we will be sure that's there will be a unify menu art style. --[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 21:57, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

::::Yes. The change was reverted back to the 2D sprites, pending further discussion. Sorry for the trouble. --[[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 23:01, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

Finally! Someone who actually listens to other people's opinions and uses common sense. I've looked at any trailer and screenshot of SV I could find and if anything it looks like 2D sprites will be returning, and if it really comes down to it perhaps we can just use the official artwork since it's easier on the eyes.[[User:Strawhatroger|Strawhatroger]] ([[User talk:Strawhatroger|talk]]) 05:02, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

==Urshifu and Female Pokémon==

Since the two forms of Urshifu shared a menusprite, the Home art for Rapid Strike style Urshifu will have to be added manually globally. I don't think there is another Pokémon with this issue. Female Pokémon such as Unfezant, Jellicent, etc. will also have to be added manually. And since they are included, the female forms of Meowstic, Indeedee, Basculegion and Pyroar should have their own entries as well. Or none of them should. Just make it consistent. Necrozma is also missing its forms, even though they change type. '''[[User:Oneofthosedf|Oneofthosedf]] [[User talk:Oneofthosedf|(talk)]] [[Special:Contributions/Oneofthosedf|(contribs)]]''' 18:00, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
:I'm wondering if we should change female forms manually or the HOME images could be renamed. I'm fine with both, but I'd like to know what to do.--'''[[User:Team Rocket Grunt|Rocket]] [[User talk:Team Rocket Grunt|Grunt]]''' 19:02, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

::Yeah, I'm adding the Urshifu sprite to move pages, but I'll wait with Indeedee and Meowstic, as a simple redirect would solve those issues as opposed to Urshifu. '''[[User:Oneofthosedf|Oneofthosedf]] [[User talk:Oneofthosedf|(talk)]] [[Special:Contributions/Oneofthosedf|(contribs)]]''' 19:46, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

== Forms of Pokémon that should be added into this list ==

I know that I spoke about this more that two years ago, but there are a lot of inconsistencies in the list regarding which Pokémon forms get to be in this list and which don't, I get that Gigantamax and Mega's aren't allowed in this list, but there are Pokémon that have very different forms ranging from Gender, alternative and even different learnset's, and I think that they should be added into the list as well because there are pokemon that share the exact situation has the ones that I'm going to propose that are already on the list.

Candidates for inclusion on the list based in multiple criteria:

By gender extreme differences:

Indeedee Female

Pyroar Female

Meowstic Female

Basculegion Female

(Pokémon subject to this criteria that are already present on the list with Male and Female forms are: Unfezant, Frillish and Jellycent)

Pokemon with special forms that can't be changed:

Lycanrock Midnight form

Lycanrock Dusk form

Toxtricity Low Key form

Sandy Cloak Wormadam

Trash Cloak Wormadam

(Pokémon subject to this criteria that have different forms already present on the list are: Shellos, Gastrodont, Basculin and Urshifu)

Diferent Fusions with different Types:

White Kyurem

Black Kyurem

Dusk Mane Necrozma

Dawn Wings Necrozma

Ultra Necrozma

Pokemon with the capability of change between forms upon different scenarios:

Wishiwashi School form

Cherrim Sunshine form

Landorus Therian form

Thundurus Therian form

Tornadus Therian form

Enamorus Therian form

Keldeo Resolute form

Zygarde 10% form

Zygarde 100% form

(Pokémon subject to this criteria that have different forms already present on the list are: Castform, Rotom, Melloeta, Hoopa, Shaymin, Oricorio, Deoxis, Dialga, Palkia and Gyratina)

Please consider adding the proposed forms listed above, or consider delisting the Pokémon forms that are already present in parentheses at the end of each category, since if the Pokémons requested to be added are not added personally I don't see a justified reason to keep the extra forms that are present at the moment.

--[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 18:23, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

Also this should be more easy now that we have the Pokémon HOME models for this list --[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 18:28, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

:Being as long as it is, I think adding on to the list uneccessarily unless its a non-battle form change that changes the user's type. That being said, there are some forms missing that can be added, and I agree that some of the listings, like the gender differences, are superfluous. - [[User:Coffee|Chosen]] ([[User talk:Coffee|Talk]]) 01:11, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

{{indent}}These and many forms have (mostly) been added. You can see [[User:Tiddlywinks/List of Pokémon by National Pokédex number|here]] a list of forms that were not included (as of pre-SV). Generally, forms for abandoned mechanics (like Megas) are excluded.

These details could change with discussion. I know that all forms are pretty much in HOME, which may argue for adding Megas and such. (If we do do that, I feel like we should throw in Spiky-eared Pichu and other non-HOME forms too.) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 06:10, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

:If I may make suggestions, I think that form names could be split into new lines with <nowiki> </nowiki>tag like it is done on many pages already. How about adding generation number to each Pokémon so new people would know they can't have Alolan Pokemon in games like FRLG despite existing in LGPE? What about slight cellpadding so these files won't look so squeezed? Also, there's a small mistake with Cramorant's type and tables aren't curved at the bottom.--'''[[User:Team Rocket Grunt|Rocket]] [[User talk:Team Rocket Grunt|Grunt]]''' 08:10, 8 November 2022 (UTC)
::Personally, I'm not all about line breaks. IDK about anyone else, but at times I'll just copy a column/table straight from the page, and line breaks mess with that. (And comparing, say, the type pages, I'm not wowed by the difference in presentation. I could even argue that this format is better.)
::I did actually consider adding a column for game introduced, but I didn't get any feedback about that idea and didn't quite feel like mocking it up, so that part is completely untested.
::If you want to suggest what you think looks good for padding, I can see. But IMO it's "fine" for now. /shrug
::Roundy is about the last thing I'm worried about honestly. If I work on the list again, I may see about it. (It's definitely not worth adding some condition to the templates.) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 22:18, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

==Eternal Floette==

Not included on this page (should be) and all it had was the menusprite. It will need a redirect. Probably [[File:AZ's Floette.png|90px]] will do. '''[[User:Oneofthosedf|Oneofthosedf]] [[User talk:Oneofthosedf|(talk)]] [[Special:Contributions/Oneofthosedf|(contribs)]]''' 19:46, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

== Pokedex Arts ==

I really like that we change the classic 2D menusprites for the 2D Sugimori art for each Pokémon, since not all of them have menusprites and it most certain that in the future the old menusprites will not be used in games, we need to have a consistent art style.--[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 15:35, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

:Couldn't agree more, thank you guys for finally making this happen. Looks awesome. '''[[User:Oneofthosedf|Oneofthosedf]] [[User talk:Oneofthosedf|(talk)]] [[Special:Contributions/Oneofthosedf|(contribs)]]''' 22:42, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

I see that most forms have been cleaned up, but Basculin has only 2 of its 33 forms in the list.--[[User:Jor1ss|Jor1ss]] ([[User talk:Jor1ss|talk]]) 14:45, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
I obviously meant 3 and not 33 but it won't let me change it without signing it again.--[[User:Jor1ss|Jor1ss]] ([[User talk:Jor1ss|talk]]) 14:47, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
== Isle of Armor, Crown Tundra, Hisui, and Paldea dex numbers ==
* Hello, I'd like to request addition of Pokédex numbers for the Isle of Armor, Crown Tundra, and Hisui Pokémon. Just use the sup|Isle of Armor and sup|Crown Tundra for the IoA/CT Pokémon, add an LADex column for Hisui Pokémon.
Also, we have a few Paldea Pokédex numbers, they are: Sprigatito #001, Fuecoco #004, Quaxly #007, Lechonk #010, Pawmi #022, Fidough #076. Thanks, [[User:PinkYoshiGaming|PinkYoshiGaming]] ([[User talk:PinkYoshiGaming|talk]]) 17:26, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

== Cramorant's type ==

Cramorant's types are maldisplayed on gen 8 table. The article is locked so I hope this could be fixed soon. [[User:Saphir|Saphir]] ([[User talk:Saphir|talk]]) 12:27, 8 November 2022 (UTC)
:Thanks for pointing it out. (Also TRG.) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 22:21, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

== Gen 9 Dex numbers are largely incorrect ==

The numbers here are their index number in the data, not their National Dex numbers which we don't actually know yet and while that's fine, we need to let people know that.--[[User:Nintenfreak|Nintenfreak]] ([[User talk:Nintenfreak|talk]]) 00:52, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

::I think the Chinese-language wiki has the intended National Dex numbers on the pages of each individual Pokemon, but if there's no way to conform the numbers 100% they should be reverted to "#???" but ordered using their numbers in the Paldea Pokedex. [[User:Superjustinbros.|Superjustinbros.]] ([[User talk:Superjustinbros.|talk]]) 01:17, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
:::Did the hard work:

::::What seem to be the intended Dex numbers for the Paldea Pokemon were added in the first patch which came out on launch day, maybe that could be used as the basis for the national Dex numbers since they're all put in a more proper order? [[User:Superjustinbros.|Superjustinbros.]] ([[User talk:Superjustinbros.|talk]]) 03:35, 20 November 2022 (UTC)

Number 980 and 987 are missing from the list. Is that an error or have they just not been revealed yet? --[[User:DudeGuy|DudeGuy]] ([[User talk:DudeGuy|talk]]) 02:57, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
::They are dummied out Pokémon not in the base game but should be added with updates, which is why I suspect this isn't the actual National Dex number. It's more likely this is the internal index number. You can see sketches of what these Pokémon will look like while playing the game.--[[User:Nintenfreak|Nintenfreak]] ([[User talk:Nintenfreak|talk]]) 03:37, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
:Just confirming this, some TCG products were revealed. Pawmi is #0921 and Smoliv is #0928, which means it's not EXACTLY in the order they appear in the game since it looks like Clodsire probably got moved to be with the other evolutions of old Pokémon.--[[User:Nintenfreak|Nintenfreak]] ([[User talk:Nintenfreak|talk]]) 09:25, 7 December 2022 (UTC)

Also gholdengo is #1000 and gimmighoul #999 but I can’t update it [[User:RogueAngel7272|RogueAngel7272]] ([[User talk:RogueAngel7272|talk]]) 20:05, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

==Notes==

Meadow Vivillon is listed as the Polar Pattern, Paldean Tauros are missing, and I get why Arceus has "Arceus" under its name, but it's really redundant. If the Deerling and Cramorant forms are listed separately, then Ash-Greninja and Eternal Floette should also be listed. '''[[User:Oneofthosedf|Oneofthosedf]] [[User talk:Oneofthosedf|(talk)]] [[Special:Contributions/Oneofthosedf|(contribs)]]''' 00:14, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
:The page explicitly lists form names like HOME does.
:I made the decision to only include Pokemon that aren't part of an obsolete mechanic like Megas. To me that includes Ash-Greninja and Floette. There hasn't been much discussion about if that's best. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 03:19, 6 December 2022 (UTC)

==Paldean Tauros==

Just wanted to note that Paldean Tauros' type is wrong, and that all breeds should be listed as they have different types. [[User:Petrichor|Petrichor]] ([[User talk:Petrichor|talk]]) 18:04, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

== hey ==

the official artworks for all Gen 9 Pokemon are arriving!
[[User:WASPED 302168|WASPED 302168]] ([[User talk:WASPED 302168|talk]]) 14:52, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

I have a question, how much time is often need after the games official release and the full release of the official arts for every Pokémon???
2, 3 or 4 months???
[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 17:35, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
:If I remember correctly, last time it was 20 days, so it would be expected in 5. I think [https://zukan.pokemon.co.jp/?sort_type=2 this was the site] that published them first.--'''[[User:Team Rocket Grunt|Rocket]] [[User talk:Team Rocket Grunt|Grunt]]''' 17:48, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

== National Pokédex Number for Paldean Pokémon ==

Apparently the National Pokédex Number for Paldean Pokémon has been revealed. https://twitter.com/JoeMerrick/status/1600515136070057986
Should we go ahead and change the order, or do we wait for now? [[User:Harryghost|Harryghost]] ([[User talk:Harryghost|talk]]) 16:08, 7 December 2022 (UTC)
:I would wait for something official.--'''[[User:Team Rocket Grunt|Rocket]] [[User talk:Team Rocket Grunt|Grunt]]''' 22:37, 7 December 2022 (UTC)
::That would mean waiting for Pokémon Home to update. I think it would be more prudent to go ahead and work with the datamined numbers and if we need to change them later, change them later. Simple as.--[[User:Nintenfreak|Nintenfreak]] ([[User talk:Nintenfreak|talk]]) 03:20, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
::: We're waiting for the TCG cards to be properly revealed before adding the numbers of the relevant Pokemon(so, not all of them).--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 05:18, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

:::: It's inaccurate to state on the page that the numbers haven't been datamined yet. —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 00:19, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
:::::...It doesn't say 'datamined'. It says 'determined'. Which they haven't been. [[User:ArcToraphim|Kai]] * the [[User talk:ArcToraphim|Arc]] [[Special:Contributions/ArcToraphim|Toraph]] 14:52, 11 December 2022 (UTC)

::::At the very least, the current situation is causing problems for templates that expect Pokémon sprites to be labeled by their National Dex number rather than by name (such as the "trainerlist" set used on Trainer class pages), so something ought to be done about that sooner rather than (months) later. (And anyways, if we're being pedantic, datamined info is already in use in plenty of places around the site, so I don't see why this data is any less kosher?) [[User:Zyxyz|Zyxyz]] ([[User talk:Zyxyz|talk]]) 12:06, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

== Why can't I edit the page? ==

I've confirmed my email address, but the option to edit isn't appearing for me. Is there a reason for that that I'm not aware of? Also, I am able to edit other pages, this is the only I've seen so far that I can't. --[[User:Greenninja22|Greenninja22]] ([[User talk:Greenninja22|talk]]) 22:25, 14 December 2022 (UTC)
:I'm guessing you've just joined Bulbapedia, you're not autoconfirmed so can't edit straight away, it is also possible the page is protected so that either only admin can edit the page or new members can't--[[User:BigDocFan|BigDocFan]], Junior Admin Bulbapedia ([[User talk:BigDocFan|talk]]) 22:31, 14 December 2022 (UTC)
::This specific page is protected and only admins can edit it.--'''[[User:Team Rocket Grunt|Rocket]] [[User talk:Team Rocket Grunt|Grunt]]''' 22:33, 14 December 2022 (UTC)

== Gen IX ==

Add paldean to the list of regions at the start of the article [[User:Gliscor8|Gliscor8]] ([[User talk:Gliscor8|talk]]) 02:42, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

Paldea [[User:Gliscor8|Gliscor8]] ([[User talk:Gliscor8|talk]]) 02:43, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

== Official Gen IX Order (?) ==

https://youtu.be/pa08Y-fhfTI

Pokémon recently uploaded this commemorating each Mon, and at the end they seem to reveal the official order of the Paldean Dex. The numbers of some do correspond with the teased TCG Dex numbers of certain Paldean Mons. It might be safe to fill in the rest of the Dex now.

[[User:Setralystic|Setralystic]] ([[User talk:Setralystic|talk]]) 14:33, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

I agree with the orden present in the vido has well, even in the video and in the official site for Pokémon Scarlet and Violet states that Gholdengo is the 1000th pokemon, the order shown must be the official one. --[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 15:57, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

== Official Artwork ==

Add official Artwork for all paldean pokemon [[User:Gliscor8|Gliscor8]] ([[User talk:Gliscor8|talk]]) 00:32, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

*Not all of the artwork has been revealed yet. Yes, there's some leaked artwork but again, not all of that has been revealed.
[[User:Setralystic|Setralystic]] ([[User talk:Setralystic|talk]]) 01:52, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

== Zero-Padding for Numbers ==

Since there are now over 1000 Pokémon, both the official Japanese Pokédex page and the TCG are adding an extra zero to the beginning of existing Dex numbers below 906 (Bulbasaur is already listed as "#0001" on the official website, etc. - going up from there). I feel like implementing this change site-wide would take quite some time, as the three-digit numbers are used on at least a thousand pages across the site, but this might be the best place to start with that. Thoughts? [[User:Mudkip0258|Mudkip0258]] ([[User talk:Mudkip0258|talk]]) 15:18, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
:That's just inevitable.--'''[[User:Team Rocket Grunt|Rocket]] [[User talk:Team Rocket Grunt|Grunt]]''' 15:28, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
::We have a bot for stuff like that, we just need to get images and templates sorted before running it. [[User:Glik|glik]][[User talk:Glik|glak]] 15:31, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

== Forms of Gen IX Pokémon missing from the list ==

I think that we should add in to the list the forms of Maushold Family of Three, Dudunsparce Three-Segment form and for Squawkabilly the blue, white and yellow Plumage forms, since there are other Pokémon with multiple and even grater number of forms represented in this list even if they do not posees 2D artwork, even in the Pokémon official site this forms are represented with 3D in game models from Scarlet and Violet. --[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 20:19, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

== Images ==

To me it looks like the first 3 Pokémon of the Ruinous quartet are using the old leaked images instead of the revealed art. Chi-Yu seems to be updated.
I would show an image but... (nvm i didnt refresh my page)
[[User:Setralystic|Setralystic]] ([[User talk:Setralystic|talk]]) 01:18, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

== Gen 9 Starter Evos Official Artwork ==

Even though their artwork has been officially released and their individual pages use them, this page still doesn't have them. Can someone fix that? --[[User:Greenninja22|Greenninja22]] ([[User talk:Greenninja22|talk]]) 17:28, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
:Server needs to refresh.--'''[[User:Team Rocket Grunt|Rocket]] [[User talk:Team Rocket Grunt|Grunt]]''' 18:50, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

== DLC ==

Add the revealed Pokemon from the presentation (I know we don't know much about them yet)

Δ✓δ↔ {{unsigned|Gliscor8}}

== Unrevealed №s ==

The SV DLC Pokémon whose numbers have yet to be revealed should have #???? in the table rather than #0000. This would more accurately reflect that their numbers are yet to be revealed. Here's a table for comparion:
{{ndexh|Scarlet|Violet}}
{{ndex|0000|Ogerpon|Unknown}}
{{ndex|????|Ogerpon|Unknown}}
|}
This seems to break the images in the table. However, the images only work using #0000 because redirects from File:0000Species.png to File:Species.png have been created. Adding an #ifeq to the template would allow the images to work again, this time without using file redirects. This would also eliminate the need to create file redirects for this purpose in the future. Here's an example where I've replaced the second line with [[User:Kauli/Template:Ndex|a modified version of the template]]:
{{ndexh|Scarlet|Violet}}
{{ndex|0000|Ogerpon|Unknown}}
{{User:Kauli/Template:Ndex|????|Ogerpon}}
|}
I understand this is a pretty small issue at the moment, but eliminating the need to create file redirects in the future would be nice. A modified version of [[Template:Ndex]] that would make this change possible can be found at [[User:Kauli/Template:Ndex]]. ‒[[User:Kauli|Kᴀᴜʟɪ]] 〔[[User talk:Kauli|Tᴀʟᴋ]][[Special:NewSection/User talk:Kauli|+]]〕 13:13, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

== Ursaluna (Bloodmoon form) ==

I think we should add Ursaluna's Bloodmoon form to the list since its an unique form of Ursaluna that without triggering a transformation gets itself differentiated from the original form, not only in stats but also in artwork and in move set, like other Pokémon with multiple forms that are on this list. --[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 14:34, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

== Kyogre and Groudon ==
Why are Kyogre and Groudon's names listed twice? [[User:Bandana Hewer Dee|Bandana Hewer Dee]] ([[User talk:Bandana Hewer Dee|talk]]) 21:53, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

Guys this error has been for over a year, can someone please fix it, i would but the page is super heavy protected!--[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 08:07, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

==kitakami abd bluberry==
shouldnt they be listed after paldea in the opening paragraph. maybe not blueberry, since its not a region.[[User:Roserade57|Roserade57]] ([[User talk:Roserade57|talk]]) 04:49, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

== Form-related oddities ==
A couple of issues I have with the way this list handles forms:
*There's a bit of inconsistency regarding what Pokémon do and don't have their forms listed on the page. Not all form differences are listed as some minor ones, such as Unown, Furfrou, Zarude, Magearna, etc., are excluded, giving the impression that only major forms should be listed here. By this logic, I take issue with the inclusion of the alternate forms of Genesect, Flabébé, Floette, Florges, Xerneas, Mimikyu, and Cramorant, who, like the Pokémon I listed earlier, have form differences minor enough to not have official artwork for the alternate forms and that don't tend to be separated on official Pokémon lists (e.g. [https://zukan.pokemon.co.jp/ this website] - while Darmanitan, Eiscue, Maushold, Squawkabilly, and Dudunsparce don't have proper artwork for their forms either, I give them a pass since they at least have renders that are used alongside official art on that website). Admittedly, Cap Pikachu is a bit of an edge case, as while they do have proper official artwork, they aren't consistently listed separately in official sources, so I could see that one going either way.
*For some of the Pokémon that have only one of their forms listed, the name of that form is still noted despite there not being any other forms to differentiate from, so it ends up a little cryptic and unhelpful. This applies to Unown, Vivillon (especially strange since that's not technically the "primary" form, just the one that happens to be used for the artwork), Furfrou, Silvally, Alcremie, Koraidon, and Miraidon (though strangely, some other Pokémon in the same situation, such as Sinistea, don't have this quirk). The worst offenders, though, are Kyogre, Groudon, and Arceus, which bizarrely have all their names listed twice. I get this is an attempt to match the naming of forms in the Pokédex, but the Pokédex only does it that way to differentiate the forms from each other, which we don't need to do here since we aren't listing the other forms of these Pokémon. The legend on the article already acknowledges that blindly following the Pokédex at the expense of logic isn't what's best in every case, so why can't that be extended to these Pokémon? Because "Arceus (Arceus)" makes no sense at all to most viewers and isn't really achieving anything besides causing confusion.
[[User:Hewer|Hewer]] ([[User talk:Hewer|talk]]) 20:02, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
:Forgot to mention, Bloodmoon Ursaluna should absolutely be included, it's a more major form difference than some of the forms already on the list. Its exclusion is probably just a mistake no one's addressed. [[User:Hewer|Hewer]] ([[User talk:Hewer|talk]]) 14:23, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

== Ultra Necrozma ==

As stated in, Forms of Pokémon that should be added into this list, earlier on this page people want Ultra Necrozma to be added to the List of Pokémon by National Pokédex number. I beilive that Ultra Necrozma should be added to this list because Dusk Mane and Dawn Wings Necrozma (and Black and White Kyurem) have already been added to this list, as Ultra Necrozma is also a fusion between pokemon. And that is why I belive Ultra Necrozma should be added to List of Pokémon by National Pokédex number. [[User:0Clod&sire|0Clod&sire]] ([[User talk:0Clod&sire|talk]]) 23:59, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
:I believe that Ultra Necrozma is missing because it's a battle temporary form, just like Mega Evolution.--'''[[User:Team Rocket Grunt|Rocket]] [[User talk:Team Rocket Grunt|Grunt]]''' 13:54, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Talk:List of game characters

2024-06-09T21:26:45Z

Neos: /* Extension to Pokémon Scarlett and Violet Character */

Talk:First partner Pokémon/Archive 1

2024-03-15T21:48:24Z

Neos: /* Why the removal of the evolutions? */ new section

==Normal Starters==
Should Pikachu be considered a 'normal' starter? I mean, it isn't part of the Fire/Water/Grass triangle, and it can also be captured in the wild in many of the other games, something that no other starters have right now. It's also the starter only in one game (although, so have Colosseum Starters, XD Starter, and Ranger Starter). --[[User:PikamasterADV|PikamasterADV]] 12:01, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
:Well, why not? The fact it is not part of the triangle does not disqualify him as a starter Pokémon. If we had a Dark/Fighting/Psych triangle, wouldn't still they be starters? Also, the Fire/Grass/Water triangle is already broken is some cases, like the 4th generation starters having second types after they evolve. In any case, he is undoubtedly a starter in the ranks of Squirtle and Charmander. He is given out by a professor (and our very original professor Oak in his case), is given in one of the "main" games of the series, and is a basic Pokémon. --[[User:Andrelvis|Andrelvis]] 15:53, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
::Well, don't forget that also, pretty much every starter gets a second type through evolution. Only ones who don't are Squirtle, Chikorita, Cyndaquil, Totodile, and Treecko. Hell, Bulbasaur has two types in its basic form.
::And I think the division's more on the games that are defined as the main RPG series vs the side games. After all, Pichu makes Pikachu a stage 1 now, in all technicalities. But, of course, Yellow is just as much a main game as Red, Blue, and Green are, unlike Colosseum and XD compared to Ruby, Sapphire, and Emerald, even though all of them are RPGs. [[User:TTEchidna|Tom Temprotran]] 01:02, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
:::Exactly. And that's why we have the "special starters" section. They are starters, but not as much so as the "main game" ones. --[[User:Andrelvis|Andrelvis]] 17:37, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
::::But they're not special per se. They're just... not mainstream. - [[User:Zhen Lin|振霖]][[User talk:Zhen Lin|T]] 17:56, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
:::::A little off-topic, but I heard a rumor that Game Freak was considering a Fighting/Psychic/Dark trio for the Gen IV starters, but they decided to switch back to the usual Grass/Fire/Water trio. [[User:Diachronos|Diachronos]] 16:15, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

== To add to Trivia ==

I noticed this. Of the Grass starters up to and including Generation IV, all of the final forms have eight-letter English names. Venusaur, Meganium, Sceptile, and Torterra.
:Hmmm. Well, it's interesting, but the trivia section's already huge! '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]][[User:TTEchidna/GSDS|GSDS!]]''' 09:22, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

== To Remove from Trivia ==
"Usually upon evolution, the starter Pokémon gain another type. However, Blastoise, the three Johto starters' final forms (Meganium, Typhlosion, and Feraligatr), and Sceptile do not have a second type." This quote is not very accurate. The trivia itself lists 5 out of the 12 final evolutions of the main series' starters that don't gain a new type (technically it should be 6 of 13 because of [[Pikachu]]; which while it can't evolve in Yellow still does in every other version). 5 out of 12 is about 42%; which means that "usually" is used to define an occurance rate barely over 50% and is like saying Pokemon split equally into both [[gender|genders]] are "usually" one over the other. Additionally, only 6 of the 13 (about 46%) main series staters actually gain a new type out of evolution, as [[Bulbasaur]] starts with the {{type|Poison}}. I'm not sure if complete removal of this trivia is called for, but it definitely needs to be reworded. --[[User:ZellMurasame|ZellMurasame]] 05:15, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
:That's an overinspective technicality... but sure, it should be reworded if that's statistically the case. Just make sure not to link species with square brackets, man. The {{template|p}} template is there for use, especially with the starters and their families... all of which have appeared owned by a main anime character... '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]][[User:TTEchidna/GSDS|GSDS!]]''' 08:57, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

==Pikachu==

Just saying buy uh.. You guys put every Pokemon's evolutions in the normal games. But not Pikachu's in Pokemon Yellow?
:Pikachu can't evolve in Yellow. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]][[User:TTEchidna/GSDS|GSDS!]]''' 04:16, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

== Colosseum elemental starters ==

Even though you can get the remaining two at the end of the game, let's not forget that Bayleef, Quilava, and Croconaw are somewhat "starter" Pokémon in Pokémon Colosseum, since you need to snag one of them at the beginning of the adventure. Maybe they're like Eevee's evolutionary stones or shards in that their availability isn't immediate... However, one of the things that make them non-traditional starters is that the game doesn't explicitly ask you "you want this Pokémon, or this one, or this one?". --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 03:07, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

You just have to beat Rosso, Verde, or Bluno. You don't have to snag their Shadow Pokémon. [[User:Gligar|Gli]][[User talk:Gligar|gar]] ''I am not removing this lengthy addition to my signature until all moves have been updated to Platinum standard.'' 00:11, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

== Obediance ==

I seem to recall that in the main series, a Starter Pokémon will always obey even if its level surpasses the mark of a required Gym Badge. Has anyone else experienced this? If so, should it be added to the article somewhere? ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 19:37, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

All Pokémon caught by the trainer will, they wont obey if they have been received in a trade.[[User:David aipom|Davidaipom]] 19:39, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

:The page on [[Badge]]s does not make that distinction. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 19:48, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
::well that's how it works --lord mada 19:50, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

:::So what you're saying is that if a player was able to start a new game and somehow "catch" a Level 70 Pokémon right off the bat, it will obey? ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 19:54, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
::::yeah I'm pretty sure --lord mada 19:55, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

:::::Interesting... Well then, disregard. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 19:57, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
::::::Yes but dont forget that's very unlikely in the main series. [[User:Ritchie|Ritchie]]
:::::::Start a new game, trade away a random caught Pokémon, get it back after a while at level 70 and it likely will obey. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 18:54, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
:::::::Unlikely, but possible. Especially with an Action Replay. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 17:53, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

== Trivia overload? ==

Don't get me wrong, I always love a lot of additions to the trivia section, but even now it seems like it's way too much. We might want to cut back on some more esoteric things, and group the move pattern observations together. [[User:Toastypk|'''''~Toastypk''''']] - [[User_Talk:Toastypk|'''Loom.''']] 17:41, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
:Maybe it would be possible to encorporate some of the more anime-exclusive trivia into the anime section and likewise for game-exclusive, and only put overall trivia at the bottom. ''[[User:Moldy orange|'''Moldy''']][[User talk:Moldy orange|'''Orange''']]'' 17:45, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
::Something I noticed on the Trivia section is that one of the links is broken; specifically, the cross-Wiki link about Charmander being based of the mythical Salamander. --[[User:Mikekearn|Mike]] | [[Special:Contributions/Mikekearn|Contrib]] 03:00, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
:::This was a stupid error on my part; I fixed it just now. I had fixed the link before, but I put wp:Salamander (legendary creature) rather than wp|Salamander (legendary creature). This caused a broken link. It was very unprofessional of me, and I greatly apologize for the error. [[User:Kumori Satosuke|Satosuke]] 03:18, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

==No editing?==
Why cant I edit this? I found an error... --'''[[User:Mooites|Mooites]]''' [[User talk:Mooites|Talk to me, baby!]] 18:47, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
:So did I. I don't know if it's the same as yours, but its at the end of the page. It's missing a period. --[[User:PsychicRider|'''Psychic''']][[User talk:PsychicRider|'''Rider''']]''''[[Special:Contributions/PsychicRider|'''☮''']]'' 18:50, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
::In the middle of something, didn't want an edit conflict. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 18:54, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

==Gen IV type-trumping==
I just noticed something about the Sinnoh starters' final forms. Each of them gains a a type advantage over the starter it is weak to in some way:
*Torterra gains the Ground-type, which is super-effective against Infernape.
*Infernape gains the Fighting-type, which is super-effective against Empoleon's Steel-type.
*Empoleon gains the Steel-type, which gives it a resistance to Torterra's Grass-type (although it does give a weakness to Torterra's Ground-type (maybe for balance issues); however, being a Water-type, Empoleon can learn Ice-type attacks to deal super-effective damage against both of Torterra's types).
[[User:Diachronos|Diachronos]] 16:26, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
:However, the steel type also renders Empoleon without a resistance to either of Infernape's types, thus actually making it WEAK to Infernape (at least to it's fighting type, and the steel offbalances the water resistance to fire). [[User:Kumori Satosuke|Satosuke]] 11:40, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
::Including Empoleon's ability to learn Ice moves, all the starters have moves which are super effective against the other two starters. As in, the examples listed above and the normal type advantage circle (except Empoleon is weak to Ground not Grass)So, in a way, it means that none of them are superior to the others. [[User:Gastly's Mama|Gastly's Mama]]

==Gary's Starter==
Is the statement "it caused many to hearken back to Pokémon Yellow, where the player starts with Pikachu, like Ash, and the rival starts with Eevee" the wrong way round because Pokemon Yellow was based on the anime and because Gary's true starter had not been revealed at the time, the makers made Eevee his starter, as the game required him to have a confirmed one? Therefore rather than people thinking this because that was his starter in Yellow, is it not much more likely that this was his starter in Yellow because people thought it was starter already? - ''unsigned comment from {{u|Gastlys mama}} ([[User talk:Gastlys mama|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Gastlys mama|contribs]]) ''

== Platinum ==

It's different in Platinum. There are no Starly. He just give them out for some reason to the two and they battle each other. Someone who knows the reason should place it. *[[User:Tc26|Tc]][[User talk:Tc26|26]]* 07:02, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
:Maybe it's to test out their newly received pokémon? that seems the most logical to me... [[User:Mijzelffan|Mijzelffan]] 15:40, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
::I think the question is why did Rowan give them to the character and Pearl. [[User:The Dark Fiddler|The Dark Fiddler]] - [[User talk:The Dark Fiddler|Nos hablamos?]] 15:45, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
:::Well, that can wait until March... '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 03:25, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
::::Its almost time for Platinum to come out in America, better get ready to fill that in!--[[User:Dragonbeastx/The Aura Spot|X, PEACE TO]][[User:Dragonbeastx|THE DRAGONS AND]][[User talk:Dragonbeastx|THE BEASTS]] 07:18, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

== Trivia Addition ==

I felt it would be interesting to note that all of the starter's first evolutions have the same base stat total of 405, whereas the base and final forms vary greatly.
:Every middle evolution, you mean? Definitely something to say. But the final forms' variance needn't be mentioned; it's not like they're Butterfree vs Arceus in terms of BST difference. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 04:50, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

== Second Trivia Addition ==

Wouldn't it be a good idea to post the fact that in the anime, the protagonist's starter Pokémon actually has a type advantage over the rival's starter Pokémon other than the other way around? (Ash obviously had Pikachu whereas Gary had Squirtle) Seems relevant --[[User:Blackstone Dresden|Blackstone Dresden]] 03:47, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
:No. Basically what they did was say Gary had a MYSTERY OMGEEZ and then an EEVEE OMGEEZ YELOW and then BLASTOISE HAHA. And by that third point, in Johto, Ash's Charizard counted almost as much as Pikachu anyway, especially considering the battle the two had using those. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 04:52, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

== Kanto starters in HGSS? ==

I just got all 16 badges, Oak gives me a HM08, but no starter. Do i have to do something beforehand? -->'''[[User:223david|223]][[User_talk:223david|david]]''' 01:19, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
:This sounds kind of forum-y to me, but you might have to do the Copycat event first - I read somewhere that you have to do that in order to get a Hoenn starter from Steven, at least. [[User:Umeko|梅子]][[User talk:Umeko|❀]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|✿]] 01:23, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
::All events done ''except for red''. do i have to beat him firsT? -->'''[[User:223david|223]][[User_talk:223david|david]]''' 01:26, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
:::Yes. [[User:Umeko|梅子]][[User talk:Umeko|❀]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|✿]] 01:27, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

== The mystical, amazing disappearing starter Pokemon! ==

I could have sworn I saw this discussed somewhere before, but for the life of me I can't find it now. Oh well.

Anyway, at some point in HGSS (not sure exactly when) the third starter Pokemon which wasn't chosen by the PC or the rival mysteriously vanishes from its place in Elm's lab. (The game text when the... whatever that machine is... is examined is something along the lines of, "Hey! The third Pokeball is gone! Was it given to someone?" though I can't be bothered to switch games in my DS to check for sure.) I figure that this is notable enough to go into the article, and I'd put it in there myself, but I quite honestly don't know if its disappearance is ever explained, and I figure that if it ''were'' explained that should go in the article too.

Thoughts?/Anyone know what in the world happened to it? [[User:Umeko|梅子]][[User talk:Umeko|❀]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|✿]] 00:29, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
:If you're looking for a general discussion on this, head to the forums. Pedia-wise, the only thing we can really do is say that it vanishes and we don't know where to. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 00:35, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
::Nah, wasn't looking for a general discussion. I brought it up for the purpose of adding it into the article... And I haven't beaten the game yet, so I don't know if its disappearance is left unexplained, and that's why I didn't want to say that in the article (maybe it is explained, and I just haven't gotten that far yet!). I thought maybe someone else would have the answer so that it could be added to the article, definitively stating whether its disappearance was explained or not. [[User:Umeko|梅子]][[User talk:Umeko|❀]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|✿]] 00:40, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

== Can someone please put these up? ==

They're missing from the page. Pokabu's picture is the only one on there. --[[User:Dialgafan1|Dialgafan1]] 18:42, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

== Was this ever confirmed? ==

On the article it said "In Pokémon Black and White, the regional professor, yet unnamed, will offer the player a choice of the Grass-type Tsutarja, the Fire-type Pokabu, or the Water-type Mijumaru. " It's very likely this is true, but this was never confirmed so should we edit it?--[[User:Eastern|Eastern]] 18:07, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
:It's been proven. There's even an official site of the game that confirms this. - [[User:050294|050294]] 23:40, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
::I think what he means is, does the professor actually give it to the player, or is there a situation similar to DPPt, where they decide to take them and are allowed to keep them later, et cetera.—[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 09:24, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
:::Yeah, that's what I mean.--[[User:Eastern|Eastern]] 15:26, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

== Ranger "starters"? ==

I just now noticed that the Ranger partner Pokemon weren't included in the page (but I remember them being on there before). But can they be considered starter Pokemon? They probably weren't the first Pokemon the player captured (except in the first ranger game), but they are the first Pokemon they get to keep for themselves. So can they still be considered starters?

== Cheren & Bel Starters ==

Example: I choose Pokabu, Cheren will Choose Mijumaru and Belle will chose Tsutarja. But this is

not confirmmed---[[User:Franztrovao]] July 24, 2010 - 18:10 (UTC)

:It '''''IS''''' confirmed ([[User:Ataro|Ataro]] 18:15, 24 July 2010 (UTC))

== Trivia ==

Since I want no part in the edit war, I'm going to explain the trivia piece here:

<code>
As of [[Generation IV]], every '''starter-type''' in the main series (with the exception of {{p|Pikachu}}) has have one Pokémon in its final-stage of evolution to have a double weakness; {{p|Charizard}} is doubly weak to {{type|Rock}}, {{p|Swampert}} is doubly weak to {{type|Grass}} and {{p|Torterra}} is doubly weak to {{type|Ice}}.</code>

It doesn't say by generation. It says by starter ''type''. That means Fire, Water, and Grass.
Charizard, Torterra, and Swampert are members of these respective types and have double weaknesses. The trivia, meaning-wise, is fine. (Unless one were to count Bulbasaur's Poison typing...)

So yeah, if you're going to remove it, remove it for a different reason plz and thanks.--[[User:Cold|Cold]] ([[User talk:Cold|talk]]) 23:33, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

== Should Mystery Dungeon initial Pokémon be considered starters? ==

I've looked through Mystery Dungeon: Blue's manual, Bulbapedia's pages on all three sets of games, and the official Explorers of Sky webpage and have seen no mention of the initial Pokémon from MD as "starters", just "Hero Pokémon" (for the player) and "Partner Pokémon" (for the partner). They seem to lack the basic criteria for being starters (the initial Pokémon owned by a ''trainer''), even more so than the Ranger's [[Partner Pokémon]] which were already deemed not to be starters. Now I'll admit I never even played through Blue fully (and never played the others), so there may be something in-game, but I think we should separate them into their own ''Hero and Partner Pokémon'' page or something, as they don't seem to belong here. '''[[User:Memo326|Memo]]'''[[User talk:Memo326|326]] 02:48, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
:Completely agree. I've fixed this page, but the navigation template needs to be modified still. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 15:34, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

== Pokémon Yellow Evolution ==

The article says that the rival's {{p|Eevee}} evolves into {{p|Jolteon}}, {{p|Flareon}} or {{p|Vaporeon}} depending on the outcomes of battles between the player and the rival. Specifically, which battles are important, and how do the results affect the evolution? It seems like this would be a useful thing to add to the article. I believe that if the player loses the first battle in Pallet Town, the {{p|Eevee}} will evolve into a {{p|Vaporeon}}, but this should probably be double-checked. [[User:Tk3141|Tk3141]] 20:52, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Ive heard that if you win both battles, lose both battles, or lose one and win one, the outcome will be different. But im not that far in the game so I don't know the specific outcomes. --[[User:Supermon|Supermon]] 21:07, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
:It's explained in more detail [[Blue (game)/Yellow|here]]. Basically the results of the first two possible battles are summed. Two wins = Jolteon. One win and one loss/skip = Flareon. Two losses/One loss one skip = Vaporeon. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] [[User talk:Werdnae|(talk)]] 03:54, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

== Lyra/Khoury ==

Is it confirmed that Lyra and Khoury received their starters from Professor Elm or is it speculation? [[User:Duke R|'''|) u |( e''']] [[User talk:Duke R|'''®''']] 16:06, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

== Mystery Dungeon and Ranger starters ==

I think we need to move the starters of Mystery Dungeon to Player character, because thats basically what they are, people you can play as. Also, the Ranger Pokemon should be removed because we already have the Partner Pokemon page, which contains the same information. [[User:Iml908|Iml908]] ([[User talk:Iml908|talk]]) 20:37, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
:I agree with both. [[User:Duke R|'''|) u |( e''']] [[User talk:Duke R|'''®''']] 21:24, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
::I think that they should still be linked with {{template|main}}. Also, Rumble is in the same situation as PMD. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 05:10, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

== New Trivia (yeah, I know it's a little big already) ==

(First time, forgive me if I screw this up horribly)

Since Pikachu knows Thundershock, Yellow is the only main series game in which the player's starter pokemon begins play with a STAB move. Incidentally, the Rival's starter also has a STAB move, as Eevee knows tackle and is of the normal-type.

There's probably a better way of wording this. but I thought it was neat.
22:26, 20 November 2012 (UTC)HH

== Definition of starter Pokémon ==

I've always thought of starter Pokémon as meaning the sets of three Pokémon that are given by the professor, not merely a Trainer's first Pokémon. I don't mind including Pikachu and Eevee, ''that'' much (although I'm still uncertain about them), adding Marill and Ralts, and calling things like [[Growlie]] "starter Pokémon" just seems wrong to me. If people really want to list Trainer's first Pokémon, then I think that page should be at {{redlink|first Pokémon}}; however, IMO starter Pokémon should refer only to Bulbasaur, Charmander, Bulbasaur, Chikorita, Cyndaquil, Totodile, Treecko, Torchic, Mudkip, Turtwig, Chimchar, Piplup, Snivy, Tepig, Oshawott, and maybe Pikachu and Eevee if you really want. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 08:42, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
:Personally, I feel it's the Pokémon someone ''starts'' with. [[Typhlosion (Pokémon)|★]][[User:Jo The Marten|Jo the Marten]][[Flygon (Pokémon)|★]] [[User_Talk:Jo The Marten|ಠ_ಠ]][[Cilan (anime)|♥]] 08:54, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
::I agree with Jo, even though the ones listed by SnorlaxMonster are treated completely different from the other "first Pokémon" from other media. Since this page is huge, maybe splitting into "Starter Pokémon (main series)", "Starter Pokémon (spin-off)", "Starter Pokémon (anime)" and "Starter Pokémon (Adventures)" could be taken into account but is not the best option. [[User:Duke R|'''|) u |( e''']] [[User talk:Duke R|'''®''']] 10:50, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
:::Splitting like that completely ignores the point. The idea is that the Pokémon I listed are a group of Pokémon, while this page just lists the first Pokémon of a bunch of Trainers. If we want to redefine starter Pokémon as "the first Pokémon a Trainer owns" rather than the traditional "the three Pokémon that Trainers can choose from to start their journey" and give the traditional grouping their own name, then while I wouldn't prefer it, it would be better than what we have now. What I'm saying is that we have a distinct group of Pokémon that the fandom have always called "starter Pokémon", and this page seems to have merged that group with everyone's first Pokémon. So regardless of what you want to call "starter Pokémon", the traditional starter Pokémon need a separate page from people's first Pokémon. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 06:14, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
::::For what it's worth, I would define the starter pokemon as the sets of three plus Pikachu and Eevee. We categorize pokemon beyond their obvious classification by their secondary characteristics. Legendary Pokemon, other than those explicitly called out as such, are typically unique pokemon within the games that may or may not have a defining role in the story- even beginning trainers have a pretty good idea what you're talking about when you say "legendary". Pseudo-Legendaries bear some explanation, but fall within obviously recognizable parameters- 600 base stats, typically a double weakness to something, general badassedness, etc. The "starters" of the main series of games are typically in line in terms of stats and evolutions without significant variation- It would not surprise me if next generation we had to call out Charizard and Typhlosion as the exceptions to the "Fire/Fighting Rule". Spinoff series games should at best get their own page and at worst be merely mentioned on their own page. "Games" that are effectively pokedexes shouldn't be listed at all outside the article affirming their existence, as there is no meaningful way to interact with them. Eevee and Pikachu get to be the exceptions because they ''are'' the exceptions- the only main series game not to play by their own rules. You might not even list Eevee, as it's not technically an option for the trainer- It's not a "starter" pokemon, it's a "rival" pokemon.[[User:TheHateHat|TheHateHat]] ([[User talk:TheHateHat|talk]]) 04:36, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
:::::I going to say that there needs to be a distinction between "starter" and "first". For example, in the TCG a "starter set" is a set intended for people just starting to learn the TCG. However, it does not have to be their first TCG set, and their first TCG set is not necessarily a "starter set". A "starter Pokémon" is a Pokémon given to Trainers when they begin their journey to get them started. Therefore, instances like Wally's Ralts are not starter Pokémon; it is his first Pokémon, and if people want that to have a page that's fine, but they shouldn't be here. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 15:33, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
::::::I second that. The eighteen starter Pokémon from main series games must have an article of their own, they are a group of distinct Pokémon, always treated specially in every medium of the Pokémon franchise. [[User:Duke R|'''|) u |( e''']] [[User talk:Duke R|'''®''']] 04:27, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

== Eevee in Yellow ==

It seems strange to me that Eevee should be included as a starter Pokemon in Yellow on the bit at the bottom of pages about specific starter Pokemon. (Sorry don't know the correct technical term.) The player cannot start with Eevee. If the starter Pokemon of NPCs qualify for this definition of starter Pokemon then surely every known starter Pokemon for NPCs should be added to both of these sections in order to be logically consistent? If it is just because Blue is the rival of this game that his starter is notable why aren't the starters of Wally and Ethan/Lyra as NPCs? I understand their inclusion in the article but I don't understand how Blue's Eevee is any more notable than the starters of those two trainers, particularly not to the degree that it gets a mention at the bottom of the page when the others don't. [[User:Gastly's Mama|Gastly's Mama]] ([[User talk:Gastly's Mama|talk]]) 17:55, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
:Eevee was supposed to be player's starter, but Blue snatched it. [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] ([[User talk:Marked +-+-+|talk]]) 18:46, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
::But it is still not an option for the player to get it, which is more the point I feel. It is still not an option to start with. No matter what the storyline claims, the player was never "supposed" to get Eevee. Also, I'm not even sure the storyline DOES claim that.[[User:Gastly's Mama|Gastly's Mama]] ([[User talk:Gastly's Mama|talk]]) 14:07, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
:::Any Pokémon given by the Professor is a starter Pokémon, imo.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 14:16, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

== Fire Starter Trivia ==

Should it be added that there's a trend that all of the fire starters are all members of the Chinese Zodiac? There's been dragon (the Charmander line), rat (Cyndaquil being the fire '''mouse''' pokemon), rooster (the Torchic line), monkey (the Chimchar line), pig (the Tepig line), and just recently, dog (Fennekin being a fox). --[[User:GodzillaMaster|GodzillaMaster]] ([[User talk:GodzillaMaster|talk]]) 20:12, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
:I say this is more opinion than fact. Yes, Cyndaquil is the Fire Mouse Pokémon but it isn't based on a mouse (or a rat). Fennekin, while based of a species of canines, isn't a dog. Though I agree with the others. So you could say I'm neutral/indifferent on this trivia.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 02:31, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
:Yes, I know that Cyndaquil isn't based on an actual mouse, but the species name still counts and fox should be close enough to dog to count. --[[User:GodzillaMaster|GodzillaMaster]] ([[User talk:GodzillaMaster|talk]]) 03:30, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

== Shininess ==

Is it possible that received starter in main series will be shiny?
[[User:SFtheGreat|SFtheGreat]] ([[User talk:SFtheGreat|talk]]) 19:53, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
: Yes, it's the same probability as if you were to catch them in the wild (approximately 1/8192). [[User:ChiefbozX|ChiefbozX]] ([[User talk:ChiefbozX|talk]]) 20:44, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

== Kanto Starters for X and Y ==

"Soon afterwards, Professor Sycamore will give the player a choice between one of the classic Kanto starter Pokémon, whom, upon reaching their final stages, will have access to Mega Evolved forms, given the prequisite Mega Stone."

This is more speculation than factual. We do not meet Professor Sycamore until Lumoise City. This was stated in the preview clips when he was released as well as stated on the main web site. Lumoise City is after the first Gym so the player has a good bit of play time before they ever meet Professor Sycamore in Lumoise. We also have not been given any information as to whether or not the Kanto Starters are Post Game hand outs like all other Non-Regional Starters are like in Pokemon Emerald and forward. Should probably wait for more information before saying we get two starters in the game since this has the makings of being post-game hand outs like they always end up. [[User:XanderO|XanderO]] ([[User talk:XanderO|talk]]) 14:08, 4 September 2013 (UTC)
:While I do believe we should wait till we have more information on this, I thought we had more reason to believe that the Kanto starters weren't post-game hand outs. First of all, I don't believe they revealed post-game starters before during pre-release. And second, I believe in the Pokémon Direct, the man asked Masuda if there was going to be anything different about this game. Masuda then answered by talking about Sycamore giving out one of the Kanto starters. If it was post-game, that wouldn't be different from previous games at all. They even showed that picture with the three Kalos starters and the three Kanto starters. I think that the implication is that we're supposed to have 2 starters early on this time around. [[User:Pocketfanmk|Pocketfanmk]] ([[User talk:Pocketfanmk|talk]]) 17:32, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

::If you actually watched the Pokémon Direct, you would have heard that you get both starters near the beginning of the game. ☆[[User:Solar Dragon|The]] [[User talk:Solar Dragon|Solar]] [[Special:Contributions/Solar Dragon|Dragon]]☆ 17:44, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
::::''"In the past Pokémon games, the story began when the Pokémon Professor let you choose one of three Pokémon. However, in Pokémon X and Y your first partner Pokémon; Chespin, Fennekin, or Froakie; won't be given to you from the Professor but by your friend instead. Then you'll receive a different Pokémon from the Professor later on. What you get from the Professor is one of the partner Pokémon from the original Pokémon Red and Pokémon Blue."'' 11:45 - 12:30
:::No where does it say you get both at the beginning of the game. Not to mention the Professor isn't even in the starting town. We can't say for sure when you'll officially meet the Professor in-game. Even if the city itself is post-first gym, he might not be there. [[Typhlosion (Pokémon)|★]][[User:Jo The Marten|Jo the Marten]][[Flygon (Pokémon)|★]] [[User_Talk:Jo The Marten|ಠ_ಠ]][[Cilan (anime)|♥]] 19:01, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

== XY? ==

Would you say the xy starters are not official starters because a professor doesn't give them to you? So they may not be deemed good enough for starter trainers? [[User:Prinben|Prinben]] ([[User talk:Prinben|talk]]) 13:17, 12 September 2013 (UTC)
:A starter Pokemon is a Pokemon a beginning Trainer starts their journey with. XY is clearly indicating that it doesn't matter where you get them from, as long as you start with it, it's a starter. [[User:Ataro|Ataro]] ([[User talk:Ataro|talk]]) 13:42, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

==Friend Safari==

Do the kanto starter first stage evos in the Friend Safari count as legitimately obtaining all three starter pokemon from a previous game? [[User:Yveltal0003|Yveltal0003]] ([[User talk:Yveltal0003|talk]]) 19:45, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

== Tierno and Trevor ==

Should their starters in XY be included? They don't pick from the three but they both only have two Pokemon when you first have a double battle with them and Serena. I think one of them's starter was Pikachu but I can't remember who. [[User:Nutter Butter|Nutter Butter]] ([[User talk:Nutter Butter|talk]]) 21:03, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
:I don't think we can confirm what their actual Starter Pokémon are or when they got them, seeming they could of switched them before you battle them. Unless its explicitly stated, I think we should just say that there could be other options for Starter Pokémon than those given, although that's just my opinion on the matter. --[[User:S2daam|--samm :D]] 21:19, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

== Turn sprites into artwork ==

Can anyone turn sprites into artwork because we're at Generation VI? Thank you! [[User:Cinday123|Cinday123]] ([[User talk:Cinday123|talk]]) 07:02, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

== Split ==

SnorlaxMonster suggested this {{DL|Talk:Starter Pokémon|Definition of starter Pokémon|in an above section}}, but nothing came of it, so I'm slapping on the split template so that hopefully, even if no consensus comes of discussion, it'll go to the staff on [http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/f195/candidates-merging-moving-mainspacing-splitting-discussion-thread-114138/ the forum thread]. I propose that the traditional Grass/Fire/Water trios comprise an article, and all other Pokémon that Trainers in various media start with comprise another. I suggest ''Starter Pokémon'' and ''First Pokémon'', respectively, but any number of other names are also possible. The main thing is that the Grass/Fire/Water trios differ significantly from starting Pokémon in side games, the anime, the manga, etc. The two sets need to be treated separately.

Whether to include the Pikachu and Eevee from Yellow is a bone of contention that I'd prefer not to overshadow this, but since it's relevant, I will give my opinion on it. Under no circumstances should Eevee be included, because it's the rival's, not the players. (Same conditions as Marill and Ralts.) Pikachu's more of a gray area, but it doesn't fill the same role statistically or in availability in any other game, so I feel it also doesn't belong with the Grass/Fire/Water trios despite being a starting Pokémon for the player in the main series.[[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 06:05, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
:The only issue I have with this is that there is still the issue of Orre and Pokétopia, though it sounds like under the proposal it would be a First Pokémon over a Starter Pokémon. My two cents is that there is a bit of gray area currently, though they are called "the big three" for Japanese players. --[[User:Super goku|Super goku]] ([[User talk:Super goku|talk]]) 07:32, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
::If a "starter Pokemon" is something you get to choose, then none of Orre, Poketopia, or Yellow will count. Your "first Pokemon" is just something you're saddled with, then. I don't have a big problem with that sort of definition. As things stand, though, Poketopia's inclusion seems pretty dumb, to me. I like Colo and XD counting, because those actually have stories (like the main games) besides connecting with main games; but it doesn't seem that PBR has a story. It just seems like a glorified Pokemon Stadium. I'm not a fan of it "counting", period, whether for "starters" (of whatever definition) or "firsts" (I think). [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 15:47, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
::P.S.: Oh, one can argue, though, that with XD's Eevee, you get your "choice" when you choose who to evolve Eevee into. And that at least includes Water and Fire (and then some), if not Grass. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 15:49, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
:::I feel as though "starter Pokémon" should refer only to the generation Grass-Fire-Water trios. I can accept Pikachu and Eevee under some interpretations, but I really don't think they count. "Starter Pokémon" is an official term, the problem is that it's difficult to find it actually defined (but I don't believe I've ever seen it used to describe Pikachu or Eevee); perhaps if somewhere the "Kanto starter Pokémon" is used to refer to Bulbasaur, Charmander, Squirtle, that could count as excluding Pikachu and Eevee from being starters. Regardless, I think the generational elemental trios clearly share commonalities that Eevee and Pikachu do not. I don't even know if "first Pokémon" deserves a page, but I certainly think that info does not belong here. (Also, thanks for reviving my suggestion. I have a bunch that I've put forward in many places that even I've forgotten about, so it's always nice to see someone else take interest.) --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 16:17, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
::::While I feel like "Starter Pokémon" usually refers to the generation Grass-Fire-Water trios, I don't feel like special cases like Pikachu should be excluded/ignored (especially since Pokémon Yellow was a main series game). I don't agree with the rival's Pokémon being listed though, because they're never given to the player and thus technically not Starter Pokémon for us. It really depends how we're defining starter Pokémon, because if we're describing them as "First Pokémon, distributed or given without having to catch them, usually by a Professor" then Pikachu fits in that definition. Even if we decide to remove Pikachu and co. from the page, I'd at least like to see Pikachu listed somewhere. '''''[[User:Pokemaster97|--Pokemaster]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|97]]''''' 20:24, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

::I find splitting Starter Pokémon from First Pokémon redundant. Not only do they have similar meanings, your starters are your first Pokémon, which is why they are called starters in the first place. Pikachu was your starter in Yellow despite not being a Fire, Water, or Grass type Pokémon. I don't get why we'd need to split the official and unofficial starters. If this proposal succeeds, I would start a new proposal to merge them. I strongly oppose the split. [[User:SeanWheeler|SeanWheeler]] ([[User talk:SeanWheeler|talk]]) 18:43, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

:::I agree. A starter Pokémon is not defined by type. That's just stupid. A starter Pokémon is a Pokémon that you START with. That doesn't mean it has to be a grass/fire/water at all! And, that also means that the rival's Eevee, Marill, or Ralts all count as well. It is the Pokémon that they START with. It's a fact. Deal with it. [[User:Nutter Butter|Nutter Butter]] ([[User talk:Nutter Butter|talk]]) 16:50, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
::::Starter Pokémon are called such because they are are started with. It is never stated that other Pokémon aren't starters, because they technically are. ''Start''er Pokémon. EDIT: If they are split, I think that everything but what the player starts with in the main series should be on starter, everything else on first. [[User:Pikachu Bros.|Pikachu Bros.]] ([[User talk:Pikachu Bros.|talk]]) 18:27, 13 March 2014 (UTC), edit time 18:28, 13 March 2014 (UTC)
:::::In official materials, "starter Pokémon" always seems to be used to refer to the Grass-Fire-Water trios. [http://www.pokemon.com/us/pokemon-episodes/chronicles-14-journey-to-the-starting-line/] [http://www.pokemon.com/us/pokemon-episodes/07_31-six-pack-attack/] [http://www.pokemonxy.com/en-gb/pokemon/starters/] [http://www.pokemon.com/us/pokemon-episodes/10_01-following-a-maidens-voyage/] [http://www.pokemonblackwhite.com/pokemon-black-and-white-1/en-us/pokemon/] [http://www.pokemon.com/us/pokemon-episodes/16_12-new-placesfamiliar-faces/] [http://www.pokemon.com/us/pokemon-episodes/08_40-the-right-place-and-the-right-mime/] [http://www.pokemon.com/us/pokemon-video-games/super-smash-bros-brawl/] [http://www.pokemon.com/us/pokemon-video-games/pokemon-emerald-version/] [http://www.pokemon.com/us/pokemon-tcg/black-white/explore-and-watch/] [http://www.pokemon.com/us/pokemon-tcg/black-white/black-white-cards]. I get that people would like the term to also refer to any Pokémon that any character has as their first Pokémon, but that is simply unsupported. The Grass-Fire-Water trios are clearly a distinct group, and they need a specific name to refer to them; officially, this has always been "starter Pokémon", which has also excluded any other Pokémon a character may have as their first Pokémon. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 09:44, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

== Why is Marill on this page? ==

Why is Marill on the page? [[User:Yamitora1|Yamitora1]] ([[User talk:Yamitora1|talk]]) 23:57, 16 March 2014 (UTC)
:Because {{ga|Lyra}}/{{ga|Ethan}} has it. [[User:Pikachu Bros.|Pikachu Bros.]] ([[User talk:Pikachu Bros.|talk]]) 00:05, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
::Oh I see now, I miss read the entry.[[User:Yamitora1|Yamitora1]] ([[User talk:Yamitora1|talk]]) 00:19, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
:::Just because Ethan/Lyra has it does not make it a starter IMO. same with Wally's Ralts. we might need to re-discuss this -[[User:Pokeant|Pokeant]] ([[User talk:Pokeant|talk]]) 08:36, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

== Trivia (Could be added to a trivia point speaking of egg group) ==

................. and Treecko and Charmander are the only starter pokemon to belonging to part dragon egg group. {{unsigned|Tgage}}
:If two are in it, it's not unique and therefore not notable, even with the cool factors of dragons added to the equation. You could make a case for noting how Chimchar's the only one in Human-Like, but I think that may be the only one in a unique group. --[[User:Pie|Pie]] ~[[User talk:Pie|♪]][[Special:Contributions/Pie|♫]] 13:59, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

==Mega Evolution Table==
Could someone fix the table that shows the mega evolutions of all the starters? Currently they're all redlinks, but when I tried to fix it myself it messed up the images. [[User:Slimey01|'''slimey''']][[User talk:Slimey01|'''01''']] 22:27, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

== Kalos starters gender ratio ==

Okay so I have played through both x and y a few diferent times here and only ONCE has there been a male fennekin. My fist play through of Y I choose fennekin and she was female. Shaunas Chespin was also female. Further more I have started quite a few different play through in X due to always losing my nuzlocks and first go my forkie was female and shaunas fennekin was also female. second time through my froakie was male but still shauna fennekin was female. Ive also gotten 3 resets in a row female chespin.
I dont know about froakie and chespin but Im PRETTY POSITIVE fennekins line is 75% female. Ive only seen 1 male fennekin in a lets play on youtube as well out of about 5 lets plays Ive watched.
Im also fairly certain that frokie's line is 50/50 on gender and maybe chespins.
I dont belive anyone can go through the code as of yet but Id like some proof at its still 75% the starter is male. I believe the reason they did that in gen 2 was so starters were more rare if you didnt know about ditto but that trend has kinda gotten out dated with everyone knowing of ditto and such.
So yeah I believe the gender ratio should be unknown of the kalos starters until we can get official proof of it.
I will say I have not done any breeding of the starters yet but think Ill start filling up a box for each one and post my results.

--[[User:Furry|Furry]] ([[User talk:Furry|talk]]) 02:22, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

: All of the starters have always had the same gender ratio, so not only is it probably safe to assume that the Kalos starters are the same but also people have the ability to see the coding of the games and as such we come up with the gender ratios for the Pokemon.

Also, almost all of the starters I have are male.--[[User:Ditto51|Ditto51/Tom]] ([[User_Talk:Ditto51|My Talk Page]]) 17:32, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

== Kalos secondary triangle ==

The Kalos starters have, in their final forms, two type triangles: Grass/Fire/Water and Fighting/Psychic/Dark. This is notable. Yet it [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Starter_Pok%C3%A9mon&curid=1162&diff=2134311&oldid=2134310 was removed].

But, you say: Dark is ''immune'' to Psychic rather than just being resistant. Well...so? Practically speaking, that is a trivial difference. If I put {{p|Braixen}} in against {{p|Chesnaught}}, Braixen has little to fear from Chesnaught's STAB moves whereas Chesnaught must fear any of Braixen's STAB moves. By the same token, if I put {{p|Greninja}} in against Braixen, Greninja has little to fear from Braixen's STAB moves whereas Braixen must fear any of Greninja's STAB moves. It's basically irrelevant that Greninja has ''even less'' to fear from Braixen than Braixen/Chesnaught do from Chesnaught/Greninja. The essential fact remains: by their typings (in their final forms), each of the starters has the advantage, ''both offensivley and defensively'', against another one of the starters in a triangular fashion.

It is irrelevant that Dark is immune to Psychic. The essential fact of "This Pokemon can do well against that one but not against the other one" is exactly the same. Both triangles are valid and this second one deserves noting. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 14:38, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

: I think the inital trivia note on it before it was changed is valid
::* The Kalos starter Pokémon's secondary types ({{t|Fighting}}, {{t|Psychic}}, and {{t|Dark}}) almost form another type-advantage triangle, being broken by the fact that the Dark type is immune to the Psychic type.
: Someone changed it which ultimately caused it to become confusing and end up being removed as it was fine for however long it was on there until it was removed (after rewording).--[[User:Ditto51|Ditto51/Tom]] ([[User_Talk:Ditto51|My Talk Page]]) 16:07, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

:::That I wouldn't mind since it's not stating that the Dark/Psychic/Fighting creates a triangle that is exactly like the Grass/Fire/Water cycle. In fact, it's why I decided to leave it there when it was added the first time before it was reworded.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 04:39, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
::::I don't see how the immunity breaks this though. It still forms a type triangle. Am I missing something? --[[User:HoennMaster|Hoenn]][[User talk:HoennMaster|Master]] 08:31, 29 June 2014 (UTC)
:::::The triangle is where the types are super effective to one type and resists the other. I feel that this is evident by Game Freak's continual usage of Grass/Fire/Water for the past six generations. Dark does not resist Psychic, thus breaking the triangle.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 08:45, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

== Gender ==
Isn't the starter Pokémon always the same gender as the player? If it is, should'nt it be added?
[[User:Lokki]] [[User talk:Lokki|Talk]] 13:35, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

:No, it isn't always the same. [[User:RandomDSplayer|RandomDSplayer]] ([[User talk:RandomDSplayer|talk]]) 12:59, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

== Trivia Fact ==

Here is an interesting trivia fact about the Fire-type starters.

'''There has been a superstition that the Fire-type starters are based on the animals of the Chinese Zodiac. Some of the information is false, like Cyndaquil and Fennekin based on the rat and dog.'''

[[User:Chrisbulb|Christian]] ([[User talk:Chrisbulb|talk]]) 02:35, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
:Speculation/opinion.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 04:12, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

== Trivia Fact: May (Anime) ==

Trivia Fact: May (Anime)

'''The only Kanto starter that May did not catch or obtain is Charmander.''' This is true because she already has Blaziken, a Fire starter native to Hoenn.

[[User:Chrisbulb|Christian]] ([[User talk:Chrisbulb|talk]]) 02:39, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
:You say "This is true because..." as if we doubt you, we know what you're talking about. It's not notable, one out of three, and it's also expected since she already had Blaziken.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 04:12, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

Forget what I said about May's Blaziken. What I meant to say why the fact is true is because May has a Bulbasaur (now a Venusaur) and a Squirtle (now a Wartortle), but not Charmander.

[[User:Chrisbulb|Christian]] ([[User talk:Chrisbulb|talk]]) 23:42, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
:That is evident by looking at May's Pokemon list, so it doesn't belong in trivia. [[User:ChE clarinetist|ChE clarinetist]] ([[User talk:ChE clarinetist|talk]]) 23:58, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

== Other in-game starters ==

Is that section really necessary? Obviously not every Pokémon Trainer starts out with the same starter Pokémon - Falkner uses his dad's Pokémon, not the starters, and dozens of random NPCs could be running around with Pokémon from the Professors (even if not these specific species), yet the few who mention their first Pokémon say they got them from their parents or something of the sort. For instance, [[Sinnoh Route 204|Youngster Tyler's Magikarp and Starly]] are from his dad if memory serves. Do we ''need'' a section showing all of the known NPC starters? I definitely think only the players' starters belong on this page, except MAYBE Eevee since it was at least ''intended'' for the player; things like Wally's Ralts and Ethan's/Lyra's Marill don't belong here in my opinion. [[User:EpicDeino|EpicDeino]] ([[User talk:EpicDeino|talk]]) 16:00, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

== Raichu ==

I think we should add Raichu alongside BST comparison table (fully evolved) table for clarity's sake. This is not damaging the table or harming anything, it would make sense to include fully evolved version of Pikachu there, and there would be no need to remove Pikachu. [[User:PkmnTrainerV|The legendary PkmnTrainerV is Here!]] ([[User talk:PkmnTrainerV|talk]]) 11:08, 14 January 2017 (UTC)
:The reason why Raichu is not included is because you can't get Raichu in Yellow nor evolve Pikachu.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 12:18, 14 January 2017 (UTC)
::I know that, I just thought it would be more clear, and with a note about Raichu in Yellow. Since extra info won't hurt. That's my opinion, I guess. [[User:PkmnTrainerV|The legendary PkmnTrainerV is Here!]] ([[User talk:PkmnTrainerV|talk]]) 13:12, 14 January 2017 (UTC)

== Mary´s Marreep ==

Shouldn´t we add Mary´s Mareep as her first pokemon as well?--[[User:Robin Maximo|Robin Maximo]] ([[User talk:Robin Maximo|talk]]) 12:07, 18 February 2017 (UTC)

== Trivium ==
I'd like to point out two things.
:1. Chespin, Fennekin, and Froakie are the first starter pokemon whos' final forms are all humanoid in appearance.
:2. The evolutionary lines of Chespin, Fennekin, and Froakie, especially their final forms, resemble character classes(fighter, mage, and thief) from {{wp|role-playing video games}}.[[User:Robbie|Robbie]] ([[User talk:Robbie|talk]]) 01:34, 25 April 2017 (UTC)
::1) Speculation
::2) No. That's too specific and means nothing at all. So what if their final forms are humanoid? It has no bearing on anything at all.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 02:19, 25 April 2017 (UTC)
:::1) Only the fire-type starter pokemon since Torchic became humanoid in their final evolutions.
:::2)The rest of the starter pokemon don't become what I said as they evolve.[[User:Robbie|Robbie]] ([[User talk:Robbie|talk]]) 12:30, 25 April 2017 (UTC)
::::I got the two mixed up.
::::1)Again, so what? Them being humanoid means absolutely nothing.
::::2)Again, nothing but speculation.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 12:39, 25 April 2017 (UTC)
:::::1)Really? The fact that Tepig and Snivy have the shortest names of all starter pokemon doesn't seem to be more noteworthy.
:::::2)Chesnaught is a spiky and armoured hedgehog resembling a knight and a Grass/Fighting type. Delphox is a witch-like fox and a Fire/Psychic type. Greninja is a ninja frog and a Water/Dark type.[[User:Robbie|Robbie]] ([[User talk:Robbie|talk]]) 18:36, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

== Suggestion ==

http://www.pokemon.co.jp/withU/resource/images/top/main-circle.png

Artwork featuring the player's starter Pokémon for the [[Pokémon with You]] campaign

[[User:Tester|Tester]] ([[User talk:Tester|talk]]) 06:24, 18 June 2017 (UTC)
:That is a great picture. I really like it. [[User:Veralann|'''Veralann'''''' (a.k.a. Incentive)''']] 14:55, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

== Alola starters ==

[[File:SM016.png|left|250px]]
Is it ok to use this picture for the Alola starters' "as seen in the anime" picture? --[[User:PKMNAdventurer|PKMNAdventurer]] ([[User talk:PKMNAdventurer|talk]]) 22:36, 26 February 2018 (UTC)

== To Add To Trivia: Alola Starters All Having Immunities ==

I thought of a interesting suggestion to add to the trivia section.

'''All three of the fully evolved Alola starters all have immunities.'''

Decidueye is part Ghost-type making it immune to Normal and Fighting-type moves. Incineroar is part Dark-type making it immune to Psychic-type moves. Primarina is part Fairy-type making it immune to Dragon-type moves.

I feel this is worthy because for the previous generations, it's either one, two or none of the starters that have immunities.

'''Gen 1:''' Charizard (It's part Flying-type making it immune to Ground. When it Mega Evolves into Mega Charizard X, however, it loses that immunity.)

'''Gen 2:''' None

'''Gen 3:''' Swampert (It's part Ground-type making it immune to Electric). When Sceptile Mega Evolves into Mega Sceptile, however, it becomes immune to Electric-type moves because of its ability Lightning Rod.

'''Gen 4:''' Torterra (It's part Ground-type making it immune to Electric) and Empoleon (It's part Steel-type making it immune to Poison).

'''Gen 5:''' None

'''Gen 6:''' Greninja (It's part Dark-type making it immune to Psychic).

[[User:Macpika|Macpika]] ([[User talk:Macpika|talk]]) 23:39, 20 December 2018 (UTC)

== Some Trivia Stuff ==

It's noteworthy saying that the Galar Starter trio have the lowest base friendship of all starter Pokémon (only 50)? {{unsigned|LaprasLaplace}}

== Coloration ==

Would it be okay to add a piece of trivia that Water-type starters all share the same Pokédex color, being blue? {{unsigned|Pseudonym}}
:Not even close to notable. It's not that important and is slightly obvious even without the Dex color assignment.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 05:02, 6 March 2020 (UTC)

== Edit ==

I undid an edit by Force Fire which added a lot of grammar and spelling mistakes like "taught how to caught" instead of "taught how to catch". [[User:Pseudonym|Pseudonym]] ([[User talk:Pseudonym|talk]]) 16:54, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

== Shortest name ==

"Two of the three Unova starter Pokémon, Snivy and Tepig, share the position of the starter Pokémon with the shortest name." I guess this trivia was written before LGPE came out because Eevee has five letters in its name too. Howewer, with this added, I don't think trivia is very notable since there's no connection between Eevee and Snivy&Tepig. Three pokemon from two different regions aren't that notable as two from the same one, I mean. So, should it be deleted? [[User:Itan|Itan]] ([[User talk:Itan|talk]]) 12:23, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
:Personally, I don't think it was really notable to begin with, but you are correct. Eevee makes this point not notable. --[[User:HoennMaster|Hoenn]][[User talk:HoennMaster|Master]] 19:55, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

== Most used secondary type ==

Is it worth noting that Fighting type is the most used secondary type for starter evolutions being used 7 times (8 times if counting Mega Evolutions) and that the Fire-Fighting combo is the most used type combo for starter evolutions, being used 6 times (7times with Mega Evolutions)? I think it is interesting tidbit, but I leave the decision to the admins. --[[User:Horn|Horn]] ([[User talk:Horn|talk]]) 11:41, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

==Alolan Starters==
That is a great one to add. Another one that might work is the one where Litten uses Slash to free itself and the other starters. https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/pokemon/images/9/96/SM016_14.png/revision/latest?cb=20170317091045

This image could also work too.
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/pokemon/images/7/7a/SM016_12.png/revision/latest?cb=20170317091045
[[User:Macpika|Macpika]] ([[User talk:Macpika|talk]]) 04:28, 9 October 2021 (UTC)

:Don't respond to sections that are over six months old. 05:27, 9 October 2021 (UTC) {{unsigned|Animaltamer7}}

== Image to Add in "In the Anime (Main Series)" ==

For the "In the Anime (Main Series)" section, could somebody please add an image of the three Alola starters in the anime? That section feels incomplete without it. Some good images to consider using would be those from the episode "They Might Not Be Giants" especially the one where Litten uses Slash to free itself along with Rowlet and Popplio. [[User:Macpika|Macpika]] ([[User talk:Macpika|talk]]) 04:23, 9 October 2021 (UTC)

== Hisuian starters section on the page ==

Should the Hisui section be put just below the Sinnoh section of the page, or right after the Galar section of the page? As of now, they're listed below Galar's section, but their stats table are between the Sinnoh and Unova stats tables. [[User:Anzasquiddles|Anzasquiddles]] ([[User talk:Anzasquiddles|talk]]) 04:08, 15 February 2022 (UTC)
:I've moved the base stats to the bottom for now. Whether the Hisui starters should be after Sinnoh or Galar is a point of discussion, but they should at least be consistent across the page. --[[User:Celadonkey|celadonk]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 04:22, 15 February 2022 (UTC)

:: My bad on the inconsistency, I had [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Starter_Pok%C3%A9mon&type=revision&diff=3473899&oldid=3473792 moved] them to the bottom but hadn't updated the stats section. Release order makes the most sense in my opinion. The fact that the Hisui region later becomes Sinnoh has no real relevance on an article about starter Pokémon. —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 10:56, 17 February 2022 (UTC)

== fully evolved vs. fully-evolved ==

I noticed that the article inconsistently switches between "fully evolved" and "fully-evolved" with the hyphen. Which is correct? [[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']]''' 10:04, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
:Bulbapedia's Manual of style doesn't say anything. if i had to guess, i THINK "fully evolved" is the grammatically correct one? [[User:Anzasquiddles|Anzasquiddles]] ([[User talk:Anzasquiddles|talk]]) 10:52, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
::I think you're right. Adverb/adjective combinations generally aren't supposed to be hyphenated. Additionally, pages such as [[List of fully evolved Pokémon by base stats]] also don't use the hyphenated version. I will go ahead and remove the hyphens. [[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']]''' 11:04, 3 March 2022 (UTC)

== Trivia ==

"Since Pokémon the Series: Black & White, no Grass-type starter Pokémon owned by a main character has evolved, as Snivy, Chespin, Rowlet, and Grookey all remain in their basic forms."
Is this really notable? [[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']] 11:59, 12 March 2022 (UTC)

== Suggested move ==

I'm proposing we move this page to {{redlink|first partner Pokémon}}. Even though it has started several games ago, with {{g|Scarlet and Violet}} at least, almost every instance of the concept has been "first partner Pokémon". We also have numerous confirmations backing this up via Pokémoncenter.com, the TCG, and from staff at the company, to name a few things. I know we have several different concepts that have had name changes throughout the years, and for those instances we switch over to the new naming scheme (i.e. {{m|Thunder Shock}}, {{m|Feint Attack}}, {{m|Vise Grip}}), so we should do the same with this too. ''[[User:Maverick Nate|'''Maverick''']][[User talk:Maverick Nate|'''Nate''']]'' 05:21, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
:I know starter Pokémon is still the popular fan term but if first partner Pokémon is the official term then I'd say yeah let's do it. [[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']] 09:53, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
::'''Oppose''', The term Starter is too iconic and it has been used before. [[User:TheBestOfAllTime|TheBestOfAllTime]] ([[User talk:TheBestOfAllTime|talk]]) 01:31, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
:::We don't really name things here based on what's popular or iconic. We typically use the official name. The games are known as Pokémon Red and Blue but we still title them [[Pokémon Red and Blue Versions]] because that's what they're actually called. We went through a similar thing with Version-exclusive Pokémon being moved to Game-exclusive Pokémon when the latter started being used officially (although we moved the article back once the former started being used officially again). [[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']] 10:54, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
:::: There's the searchability of the article to consider, people looking for "Starter Pokémon" will suddenly not find it there, "first partner Pokémon" is far less known, and moving it would also introduce potential confusion with [[Partner Pokémon (game)]]. "Starter Pokémon" would absolutely need to redirect to the new article location. Also, [https://www.nintendo.co.uk/News/2016/September/Which-one-to-choose-Revisit-first-partner-Pokemon-from-past-adventures-with-our-feature-news-1136790.html this] article seems to hyphenate it to "first-partner", rather than "first partner". [[User:Atrius97|Atrius97]] ([[User talk:Atrius97|talk]]) 11:12, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
:::::Since the term "starter Pokémon" was the main official term for this concept up until [[Generation V]] or so, it would still definitely be linked to as a redirect, and still mentioned in the article. It's just incredibly notable that they've essentially abandoned the term, barring some errant social media posts, and transitioned into first partner almost exclusively. ''[[User:Maverick Nate|'''Maverick''']][[User talk:Maverick Nate|'''Nate''']]'' 11:20, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
::::::Also, we could add a link to the top leading to the disambiguation page: [[Partner Pokémon]]. {{u|Spriteit}} and {{u|Tiddlywinks}} are also working on other potential solutions to possible page issues in their userspaces. [[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']] 11:25, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
{{indent}}Changing to "first partner Pokémon" as the new official naming seems fine to me, as long as searching "Starter", "Starters", "Starter Pokémon" etc still redirects to it, and as long as there's still a bolded mention of the term "starters" in the opening blurb.

In the userspace samples, I've noticed that the page still uses "starter" frequently, which should stay in my opinion - it's more likely to be understood by readers, and much less awkward to read repeatedly than "first partner". Using the terms interchangeably should still be acceptable site-wide, in my opinion (plus, this saves the effort of going around and cleaning up every mention of either term).

Having a link to the [[Partner Pokémon]] disambig at the top also seems reasonable. --[[User:Boblers|Boblers]] ([[User talk:Boblers|talk]]) 16:56, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
:I oppose. [[User:Randodude|Randodude]] ([[User talk:Randodude|talk]]) 20:48, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
::I '''oppose''', agreeing with TheBestOfAllTime on the matter. The term is too iconic to change despite its official abandonment, and the concept of "official names no matter what" was abandoned [[Talk:Base stats#Move|ten years ago]] when [[base stats]]/[[individual values]]/[[effort values]] remained intact. ("Base" was understood to officially mean what we call EVs since the English release of FRLG, but the exact phrase "base stats" was not used until XY. Even if we date it from SwSh for "base points", it's been over a full generation.) In any case, the line in the MoS specifically requiring official English names was removed in October 2020,[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Bulbapedia:Manual_of_style&diff=next&oldid=3256369][https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Bulbapedia:Manual_of_style&diff=next&oldid=3256480] and was never written to apply to non-character concepts in the first place. [[User:Bwburke94|bwburke94]] ([[User talk:Bwburke94|talk]]) 01:13, 18 February 2023 (UTC)
:::To my knowledge aside from those rare exceptions we still tend to go for the most recent, official term. At the very least, the more recent, official term should be used first in the opening line with starter Pokémon appearing second. [[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']] 03:44, 18 February 2023 (UTC)
::::We list the official term first for base stats et al, so we would do the same here. My opposition is specifically against moving the page. [[User:Bwburke94|bwburke94]] ([[User talk:Bwburke94|talk]]) 23:36, 18 February 2023 (UTC)
::::: I agree with changing it, it's pretty clear that the new term is first partner, and it's abundantly used everywhere. Things change, but sure it can be remembered and archived the change in an appropriate section of the article. By the way, I think "starters" is up until Kalos at least, where there's a battle background called "Starters" featuring the first partner Pokémon. {{Unsigned|Williamgg}}
::::::I '''oppose''' a move for the page. Even if it's usually preferred, the wiki doesn't always go strictly by "official" names (as seen with the pages for Base stats/Effort values/Individual values/Original series). [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 11:14, 20 May 2023 (UTC)
:::::::Those are the exception, not the rule. [[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']] 17:48, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
::::::::It still means that there is precedence for not changing page titles based on "official" names. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 00:01, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
::::::::I meant "precedent" rather than "precedence" (whoops), but the point is that "official" names shouldn't necessarily be the end-all-be-all in every case. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 00:08, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
{{indent}}I feel there's more drawbacks to keeping the page as is than benefit. "First partner Pokémon" is used to refer to more than just the three first partner Pokémon of each region. It's also used to refer generally to any "first Pokémon" a Trainer receives. It just seems natural to cover those topics with the actual terminology that is used, and it might not make sense to expand the article with that terminology and usage when we're still using the deprecated term. [[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']] 00:49, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
:Haven't said anything here so i just want to say that '''i support the move'''. It is worth a mention that "first partner Pokémon" is pretty much '''the''' preferred term used by TPC. Even game journalists and reviewers, independent or otherwise, have used the term "first partner" instead of "starter" in recent years (eg. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnFuMOTIGAE Ptcgradio's preview of Pokémon Sleep]).

:I believe Bulbapedia as a source of info should always be kept up-to-date, and that includes using the most up-to-date terms for these things, regardless of how attached you are to the old terms. I do see some ppl bringing up "but what about EVs/IVs", but as others have pointed out, that is a rare exception: with EVs/IVs, moving them to "base stats" and whatnot would confuse fans who are already so familiar with the term "base stats" as in attack, defense, etc. Moving "starter" to "first partner" wouldn't cause any confusion since they basically mean the exact same thing, it's just that one of them is used in official capacity. Plus it's not like we'll stop using the term "starter" completely; we can make a note of it on the opening paragraph and make "Starter Pokémon" a redirect to "First partner Pokémon".

:Oh, btw, it is also worth a mention that the first result when you look up "first partner Pokémon" on Google is a page from the Pokémon Fandom/Wikia wiki: [https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/206616744180056065/1127445246054240286/image.png]. So, yeah, being beaten by the ''Fandom'' wiki in SEO results is about as good of a motivation as any to move the page, i think, lmao.

:[[User:Anzasquiddles|Anzasquiddles]] ([[User talk:Anzasquiddles|talk]]) 04:04, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
::I don't have much to say that hasn't already been said, but I just wanted to say that I also '''support''' the move. "First partner" is the preferred official term since Gen VII: [https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1112282908674244718/1126303264879693876/image.png in-] [https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1112282908674244718/1126304830609166468/tumblr_p0i8ejvXFe1qioqevo1_540.gif game], [https://www.pokemoncenter.com/product/290-80967/pokemon-tcg-first-partner-pack-johto in] [https://www.pokemoncenter.com/category/first-partner-pokemon-plush merchandise], [https://www.pokemon.com/us/pokemon-news/meet-sinnohs-sensational-first-partner-pokemon-on-pokemon-tv and in] [https://scarletviolet.pokemon.com/en-us/trainers-guide/catching-pokemon-in-paldea/#choosing-your-first-partner-pokemon news articles] [https://youtu.be/SlSI2nxgMjM?t=95 and videos]. And I think it's more important to use the current names than the old names, especially when you consider that current fans who have only been exposed to the franchise through official media are only going to know the term "first partner Pokémon".
::And I also wanted to reiterate what Landfish said: ''"First partner Pokémon" is used to refer to more than just the three first partner Pokémon of each region. It's also used to refer generally to any "first Pokémon" a Trainer receives.'' (See the previous in-game examples.) These other first partner Pokémon are worth talking about, and it makes more sense to talk about them using the term "first partner" on a page called "first partner Pokémon" than it does to talk about them using the term "starters" on a page called "starter Pokémon", a fanmade term that has historically only applied to Pokémon that ''players'' can start with. [[User:Storm Aurora|Storm Aurora]] ([[User talk:Storm Aurora|talk]]) 05:46, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
:::While I understand all of the points in support of the move, I have to '''oppose''' for a reason that seems to have been glanced over: Accessibility and discoverability. TPCi and associated media have indeed been using "first partner" since Gen 6, but it's extremely clear that the community at large has not adopted that term. Any space with actual pokemon fans still almost exclusively use "starter" to refer to these Pokemon. If this page moves to, "first partner", and all Bulbapedia's SEO is directed towards that term instead, people searching for "starter pokemon" on various search engines are not going to find this article, but rather much lower quality articles from other wikis, or news sites (This article is currently the top result, next two results on Google would be a news article from dotesports.com, and a wiki article from "poke-pikachu.fandom.com"). Starter Pokemon may not be the most current term, but it's still an official term. I don't think the move is worth sacrificing the Pokemon community's ability to easily find this article and the relevant information they're after. [[User:Atrius97|Atrius97]] ([[User talk:Atrius97|talk]]) 10:42, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
::::Starter Pokémon is no longer used in an official capacity outside of unmonitored social media accounts. [[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']] 11:13, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
:::::I disagree that moving the page will significantly impact the community's ability to easily find this article. Even if it's no longer the title, the phrase "starter Pokémon" will still be mentioned early on in the article, so it should still show up in search results for starter Pokémon. And in the long run, switching the title might encourage fans to use the term more often, which would make search trends for first partner Pokémon increase. [[User:Storm Aurora|Storm Aurora]] ([[User talk:Storm Aurora|talk]]) 12:47, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
A bit late to the rebuttal but i would point out something re: "fans use starter Pokémon more often than first partner Pokémon"; could it be the reason that "starter" is still heavily in use among the fandom is because we, one of the biggest Pokémon websites, still use it? If we had switched to "first partner" back in Gen 7, i feel like the term would the term have gotten more mileage. '''[[User:Anzasquiddles|{{color|4488FC|Anzasquiddles}}]]''' 2222(:D)SSSS ([[User talk:Anzasquiddles|talk]]) 00:33, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
:The [https://twitter.com/Pokemon/status/1690638777180733441 SV DLC trailer] that dropped at the end of Worlds refers to them in plain text as first partner Pokémon. Fans commenting on the trailer all call them starter Pokémon. Clearly, starter Pokémon is the preferred term among fans. However, as a Pokémon wiki, we should be using the official terminology for things, not the fan terminology. So, I would like to reiterate that I '''support''' moving this page to first partner Pokémon, since that is the current official term for this group of Pokémon. [[User:Storm Aurora|Storm Aurora]] ([[User talk:Storm Aurora|talk]]) 14:14, 13 August 2023 (UTC)
:I feel like I'm beating a dead horse here, but [https://twitter.com/Pokemon/status/1690755121674629120 here's another example] of "first partner Pokémon" being used officially to refer specifically to the Pokémon from the Grass-Fire-Water trios that players can start with. [[User:Storm Aurora|Storm Aurora]] ([[User talk:Storm Aurora|talk]]) 16:33, 13 August 2023 (UTC)
::I'm not an admin, so I may have no say here, but while "starter Pokémon" is more iconic, the clear, official term is "first partner Pokémon". As a wiki, Bulbapedia should use the official term over the fan term. Pokémon adopts fan terms when it wants to - Shiny Pokémon, Eeveelution, etc. - but it hasn't in this case. Hanging on to a fan term for recognisability doesn't do for a wiki documenting official information. You can still redirect from starter to first partner and even include it in the main body or trivia. But the switch should happen. This is the most frequented wiki, and alongside Serebii, the most frequented fansite. Joe of Serebii is already talking about making the change. I '''support'''.--[[User:Darknesslover5000|Darknesslover5000]] ([[User talk:Darknesslover5000|talk]]) 00:09, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
:::'''Strong oppose'''. "Starter Pokémon" is universally used by the fandom, and changing it would just make things more confusing. Besides, "first partner Pokémon" is much more convoluted of a term. [[User:Biblical Bambi|Biblical Bambi]] ([[User talk:Biblical Bambi|talk]]) 00:28, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
::::Additionally, Bulbapedia is in no way affliated with GAME FREAK or Nintendo and is thus under no obligation to use the "official" term. [[User:Biblical Bambi|Biblical Bambi]] ([[User talk:Biblical Bambi|talk]]) 00:30, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
:::::These points have all been addressed in the above discussion. Also, just because we're not an official site doesn't mean we're not allowed to use and educate about the official terms. This is meant to be an encyclopedia, not an opinionated fan site. [[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']] 01:13, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
::::::(EC)Of course it doesn't mean we ''can't'' use the official terms, but it does mean that we don't have to, especially when the "unofficial" term is more widely used by several orders of magnitude. SmashWiki often uses unofficial terms when they're the most popular, so it's not like we'd be alone. [[User:Biblical Bambi|Biblical Bambi]] ([[User talk:Biblical Bambi|talk]]) 01:22, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
:I very much agree that this move should happen! And a redirect from "Starter Pokémon" should still allow those searching for it to find the page. Official terminology should ''always'' be used, without bias or opinions of the fandom. [[User:YutoMaikeru|YutoMaikeru]] ([[User talk:YutoMaikeru|talk]]) 01:19, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
::"Starter Pokémon" has over 6.4 million results on Google vs. about 15,000 for "first partner Pokémon", a difference by a factor of more than 400. With a difference that staggering, I see no reason to make the move. [[User:Biblical Bambi|Biblical Bambi]] ([[User talk:Biblical Bambi|talk]]) 01:30, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
:::Because the idea is to use the official term. It isn't about popularity, or hits. If this was a nascent wiki, I would understand, but Bulbapedia is ''the'' Pokémon wiki. Even though it doesn't always seem to load half the time anymore, or they've made design changes people find contentious sometimes, Bulbapedia is where people go for Pokémon information in wikia format. The only other site with similar pull is serebii. So this site should still use the ''official'' term that is used in official material. A fansite this may be, but it isn't a fanfiction site; fan terms, popular or otherwise, shouldn't have precedent over the official terminology. Redirects exist, the wiki can redirect starter Pokémon to first partner Pokémon. A fan-term should only be used on a wiki as the main term until a piece of official media comes out with a proper, legitimate term.--[[User:Darknesslover5000|Darknesslover5000]] ([[User talk:Darknesslover5000|talk]]) 01:44, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
::::Our goal is primarily to be a useful source of information, not to bow to TPCI's whims; that's why we have articles on things like [[ROM hacks]] that GAMEFREAK probably wouldn't approve of. People aren't searching for information on "first partner Pokémon", they're searching for "starter Pokémon". Thus, moving the page would be counterproductive to our goal of being a useful source of information on Pokémon. The argument goes both ways, too: the "official" term can be mentioned on and redirected to "Starter Pokémon", so there would be no confusion. [[User:Biblical Bambi|Biblical Bambi]] ([[User talk:Biblical Bambi|talk]]) 01:50, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
::::::I'm not saying this wiki doesn't cover fan information. I ''am'', however, saying it should not take fan terms over official ones. Creating an official term is not a "whim", it's how things work. You could compromise your way, yes, but that is not the official term, and it should not be treated as such either. This discussion needs more attention, so it can be decided one way or the other already.--[[User:Darknesslover5000|Darknesslover5000]] ([[User talk:Darknesslover5000|talk]]) 01:53, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
{{Indent}}Just letting you know this is being discussed amongst staff. [[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']] 01:56, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
:I don't know if my opinion matters as much, but I '''support''' this move. This wiki has been trying to use more official terms, and as we can see right now, "First partner Pokémon" is what the Pokémon Company has been using. If they had used "Starter Pokémon" in the newest SV trailer, at least that would tell us that they use the term interchangeably, but they didn't. "First partner Pokémon" is what they prefer to be called, not "Starter Pokémon". My only issue with the change, is regarding the wording on some pages. You guys have talked and said that we wouldn't need to entirely replace "starter Pokémon" with "First partner Pokémon" on every page. I think we need some rules for when to use "first partner Pokémon" and when it would be better to use "starter Pokémon". "First partner Pokémon" can be used for the player's or character's first Pokémon, while "starter Pokémon" can be used as a traditional first Pokémon from the games. For example, Ash's first partner Pokémon is Pikachu, but he later got all 3 starters from Kanto. That would be a good example of using "starters" instead of "first partner". Another example is that most of the protagonists of Pokémon Adventures have a different first partner Pokémon than the traditional ones from the games, like Red's first partner Pokémon is Poliwhirl but his starter is Bulbasaur. Poliwhirl is a Pokémon that Red first owned, but Bulbasaur is what started his journey to be a Pokémon Trainer. Goh is a character whose first partner Pokémon is Scorbunny, but he later catches the remaining first partner Pokémon from Galar. Goh's page has a picture of him and all his starters with the title saying "Goh and his Galar starters". That should stay, as "Goh and his first partner Pokémon from Galar" doesn't sound great, and it really doesn't make much sense. [[User:TBR2001|TBR2001]] ([[User talk:TBR2001|talk]]) 05:44, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
::I think using both "starter Pokémon" and "first partner Pokémon" is a bad idea, as it's basically an admission of the limitations of the latter term. If the whole idea is to use official terminology, then "starter" shouldnmt be used at all; TPCI collectively refers to them as "first partners" and not "starters". If the result would be confusing, then you have a good argument for not moving this page. [[User:Biblical Bambi|Biblical Bambi]] ([[User talk:Biblical Bambi|talk]]) 07:32, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
With another use of the term in a [https://twitter.com/Pokemon/status/1712543667011932396 recent anniversary tweet for Pokémon X and Y], I think now is a good time to revive this discussion. I '''strongly support''' the move. I don't really see the reason for the opposition towards it, personally - if there's an official term, that's the term Bulbapedia should use, plain and simple. There's this idea I see come up that by changing the page title, the term that the fandom has used for over two decades will suddenly disappear along with it, but I don't really think that's ever been the case. People will use the more common, accepted term if they please - heck, a page with the exact same debate, [[Super-ancient Pokémon]] got changed two years ago despite Weather trio being that page's name for years, and people still do refer to them as the Weather trio to this day. We're not trying to be the term police, it just makes more sense to me for our pages use the official terms instead of a two decade old fanterm. Whatever term people decide to use after that, we don't care. [[User:Meeper12346|Meeper12346]] ([[User talk:Meeper12346|talk]]) 02:46, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
:I ''' weakly support'''. If they're phasing out "starter" in favour of "first partner" then I see no reason why we shouldn't use the latter as the main term, while at least mentioning "Starter Pokémon" as a synonym at the top of the article since it carries a lot of history among the fandom. Though to be honest, I'm personally not entirely convinced that the terms *aren't* interchangeable. Looking at the official YouTube channel, the last mention of "starter Pokémon" was just 11 months ago as of this writing, in the description of the [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_VMGv2kKEI Pokémon Horizons announcement trailer] video; which is still in *this* current generation. And even more recent than this, 5 months ago, they use the term "starter" in [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXDbeJH7gZ0 this YouTube short] that showcases a few illustration rares of the Kanto trio in the TCG. Now you could argue that second example is more informal given the format, but they're still co-opting the term here. But overall I'm not against the move if it needs to be done. [[User:DecafSnorlax|DecafSnorlax]] ([[User talk:DecafSnorlax|talk]]) 07:40, 16 December 2023 (UTC)
::I think I '''support'''. It's just the more often used term (it's not like "starter" isn't allowed to be used period or be mentioned anyways). I don't think "it's iconic" is enough of a reason. There are many things that are "iconic" in usage but that's not what the pages are called. That said, "Partner Pokémon" has had consistent usage itself since AT LEAST Generation 7 (not to be confused with Partner Eevee and Pikachu which are forms that fall under the definition), in which "first partner Pokémon" is a branch of, so there's clearly some consistency they want here, and I think we should follow with that consistency. [https://www.nintendo.com/jp/software/feature/magazine_2023winter/index_en.html?page=18&device=pc Nintendo Magezine uses both formats in the English translation], however they use "partner" very frequently along side the usage of "starter Pokemon" still implying they belong in that branch of what a "Partner Pokemon" is. Also, I'd like people to be mindful that "starter Pokémon" IS still an official term just used less often as usual, if "first partner Pokemon" goes through this doesn't automatically invalidate the usage of starter Pokemon on any official status, but we should be using the most accurate term that the officials prefer which would be "first partner Pokemon." [[User:TrainerSplash|TrainerSplash]] ([[User talk:TrainerSplash|talk]]) 23:46, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

I '''support''', as long as a redirect is left for those who search for "starter" in the search bar (cuz let's face it, it's the more iconic term and people are gonna try to search for it that way). [[User:Aykrivwassup|Aykrivwassup]] ([[User talk:Aykrivwassup|talk]]) 05:37, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
: I, too, '''support''' the move to "First Partner Pokémon", with the above consideration of the redirect for the term "Starter Pokémon." The former term is only growing in official usage, and so to move it sooner rather than later seems to be the best idea. Practically speaking, it won't make a difference for people searching for either term, and so we remain just as accessible while being more faithful to official terminology that in the coming years will only become more prominent if things keep going the way they are. '''[[User:Dougbro1|Dougbro1]]''' ([[User talk:Dougbro1|Talk]]) 18:36, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
:: I '''oppose''' the change. As pointed out above, the phrase starter Pokémon is still used in official media, if rarely. We haven't exactly made a habit out of using the more commonly used official term. The [[guardian deities]] for instance are more commonly referred to as tapu both by fans and in official media. We elected not to move the page even though tapu was more recognizable and still is, in spite of commentary elsewehere on this page that Bulbapedia might be the reason why the name starter Pokémon is preferred by fans. Here we are suggesting to switching to the more "official" term even though it is less recognizable, when before we chose not to switch to a term that is more "official" ''and'' recognizable. This is inconsistent in my eyes—it seems like the only thing we value is ''not'' being recognizable, which shouldn't be the message we send. [[User:GMario3826|GM_3826]] ([[User talk:GMario3826|talk]]) 20:17, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

Just want to drop by and say that our German sister wiki, [[PokéWiki]], has made the leap to change "Starter Pokémon" to "First partner Pokémon" (German: {{de|Erste Partner-Pokémon}}). [[User:Anzasquiddles|'''Anzasquiddles''']] 2222(:D)SSSS ([[User_talk:Anzasquiddles|talk page]]) 16:23, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

Sorry about that last edit, didnt realize there major reasons as to why the introductory paragraph was changed. I would however like to point out that the new introductory paragraph is a little messy and harder to read than the previous version. [[User:VoidFantasy|VoidFantasy]] ([[User talk:VoidFantasy|talk]]) 07:09, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

== Moving process ==

As was announced in the latest [[Bulbapedia:Messages from the Editor]], we will be moving this page to first partner Pokémon. For a first step, we will move images on the Archives and then fix those links here. Staff will have to move these images to their new filenames (using the first two columns of the table below), but once that is done, anyone can help fix the links (using the last column in the table below to check where the old filename is still used). If you do a bunch, feel free to add strikethroughs (<nowiki><s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/...]]</s></nowiki>) to the images you did so people can easily continue with the rest. (Please don't edit the table one by one as you do each image.)

{| class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
! File || New name || Relink check
|-
| [[a:File:0133Eevee-Starter.png]] || 0133Eevee-Partner.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:0133Eevee-Starter.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:0025Pikachu-Starter.png]] || 0025Pikachu-Partner.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:0025Pikachu-Starter.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:LGPE Final Starter Cutscene.png]] || LGPE Final Partner Cutscene.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:LGPE Final Starter Cutscene.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:Starter Moemon.png]] || First partners Moemon.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:Starter Moemon.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:Kanto Starter Clones.png]] || Kanto first partner Clones.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:Kanto Starter Clones.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:Starter Pokemon poster.png]] || First partner Pokémon poster.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:Starter Pokemon poster.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:Scarlet Violet starter reveal screenshot.png]] || Scarlet Violet first partner reveal screenshot.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:Scarlet Violet starter reveal screenshot.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:Sword Shield starter reveal screenshot.png]] || Sword Shield first partner reveal screenshot.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:Sword Shield starter reveal screenshot.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:Starter Poké Balls anime.png]] || First partner Poké Balls anime.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:Starter Poké Balls anime.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:LGPE May 2018 Proto Starter Cutscene.png]] || LGPE May 2018 Proto partner Cutscene.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:LGPE May 2018 Proto Starter Cutscene.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:Sun Moon starter reveal screenshot.png]] || Sun Moon first partner reveal screenshot.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:Sun Moon starter reveal screenshot.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:Stadium Surf Starter Pikachu Yellow.png]] || Stadium Surf first partner Pikachu Yellow.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:Stadium Surf Starter Pikachu Yellow.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:CoroCoro December 2016 starter Z-Moves.jpg]] || CoroCoro December 2016 first partner Z-Moves.jpg || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:CoroCoro December 2016 starter Z-Moves.jpg]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:OPM poster Unova starter evolutions.jpg]] || OPM poster Unova first partner evolutions.jpg || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:OPM poster Unova starter evolutions.jpg]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:HOME Sticker Hisui Starter Pokemon.png]] || HOME Sticker Hisui first partner Pokémon.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:HOME Sticker Hisui Starter Pokemon.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:Kanto Starter Pals Pokédex skin f.png]] || Kanto Trio Pokédex skin f.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:Kanto Starter Pals Pokédex skin f.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:Kanto Starter Pals Pokédex skin m.png]] || Kanto Trio Pokédex skin m.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:Kanto Starter Pals Pokédex skin m.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:Starter Pokémon Class HZ001.png]] || Partner Pokémon Class HZ001.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:Starter Pokémon Class HZ001.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:XY Prerelease receiving starter.png]] || XY Prerelease receiving first partner.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:XY Prerelease receiving starter.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:LGPE Starter Accessories.png]] || LGPE Partner Accessories.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:LGPE Starter Accessories.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:LGPE Starter Costumes.png]] || LGPE Partner Costumes.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:LGPE Starter Costumes.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:CoroCoro PMD Sky starter Pokémon.png]] || CoroCoro PMD Sky first Pokémon.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:CoroCoro PMD Sky starter Pokémon.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:CoroCoro October 2013 starter evolutions.jpg]] || CoroCoro October 2013 first partner evolutions.jpg || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:CoroCoro October 2013 starter evolutions.jpg]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:Mega Evolutions Hoenn starter Pokémon.png]] || Mega Evolutions Hoenn first partner Pokémon.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:Mega Evolutions Hoenn starter Pokémon.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:HGSS Starter Selection.png]] || HGSS first partner Selection.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:HGSS Starter Selection.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:LGPE Starter Haircuts 1.png]] || LGPE Partner Haircuts 1.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:LGPE Starter Haircuts 1.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:LGPE Starter Haircuts 2.png]] || LGPE Partner Haircuts 2.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:LGPE Starter Haircuts 2.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:HGSS Prerelease starter Pokémon selection.png]] || HGSS Prerelease first partner Pokémon selection.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:HGSS Prerelease starter Pokémon selection.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:Cerise Kanto Starters.png]] || Cerise Kanto first partners.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:Cerise Kanto Starters.png]]<s>
|-
| [[a:File:Sinnoh starters anime.png]] || Sinnoh first partners anime.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:Sinnoh starters anime.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:Unova Starters English.png]] || Unova first partners English.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:Unova Starters English.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:Sinnoh Starters.png]] || Sinnoh first partners.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:Sinnoh Starters.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:PMT starters.png]] || PMT first Pokémon.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:PMT starters.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:LoT starters.png]] || LoT first partners.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:LoT starters.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:Emerald-starters.png]] || Emerald first partners.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:Emerald-starters.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:Hoenn starters anime.png]] || Hoenn first partners anime.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:Hoenn starters anime.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:Kalos starters anime.png]] || Kalos first partners anime.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:Kalos starters anime.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:Nanoblock SM Starters.png]] || Nanoblock SM first partners.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:Nanoblock SM Starters.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:Hisuian Starters anime.png]] || Hisuian first partners anime.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:Hisuian Starters anime.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:Goh Galar Starters.png]] || Goh Galar first partners.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:Goh Galar Starters.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:Johto starters anime.png]] || Johto first partners anime.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:Johto starters anime.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:Alola starters anime.png]] || Alola first partners anime.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:Alola starters anime.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:Paldea Starters anime.png]] || Paldea first partners anime.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:Paldea Starters anime.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:Unova starters anime.png]] || Unova first partners anime.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:Unova starters anime.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:Galar starters anime.png]] || Galar first partners anime.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:Galar starters anime.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:Cynthia lecture Hisuian starters.png]] || Cynthia lecture Hisuian first partners.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:Cynthia lecture Hisuian starters.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:Kanto Starters JN147.png]] || Kanto first partners JN147.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:Kanto Starters JN147.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:Sinnoh Starters artwork.png]] || Sinnoh first partners artwork.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:Sinnoh Starters artwork.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:Ruby-sapphire-starters.png]] || Ruby Sapphire first partners.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:Ruby-sapphire-starters.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:Kanto Starters Event Egg.jpg]] || Kanto First Partners Event Egg.jpg || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:Kanto Starters Event Egg.jpg]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:Kanto Starters Event Stickers 01.jpg]] || Kanto First Partners Event Stickers 01.jpg || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:Kanto Starters Event Stickers 01.jpg]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:Kanto Starters Event Stickers 02.jpg]] || Kanto First Partners Event Stickers 02.jpg || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:Kanto Starters Event Stickers 02.jpg]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:DW Sinnoh Starters Event.png]] || DW Sinnoh First Partners Event.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:DW Sinnoh Starters Event.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:Kanto Starters Evolutions.png]] || Kanto first partners Evolutions.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:Kanto Starters Evolutions.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:Kalos Starters Evolutions.png]] || Kalos first partners Evolutions.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:Kalos Starters Evolutions.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:Hoenn Starters Evolutions.png]] || Hoenn first partners Evolutions.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:Hoenn Starters Evolutions.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:Pokémon Bank Johto starters distribution.jpg]] || Pokémon Bank Johto first partners distribution.jpg || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:Pokémon Bank Johto starters distribution.jpg]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:Kanto Starters group shot.png]] || Kanto first partners group shot.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:Kanto Starters group shot.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:Sinnoh starters figure.png]] || Sinnoh first partners figure.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:Sinnoh starters figure.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:Unova starters evolution artwork.png]] || Unova first partners evolution artwork.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:Unova starters evolution artwork.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:Kanto Starters Event.jpg]] || Kanto First Partners Event.jpg || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:Kanto Starters Event.jpg]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:Mario Maker Kanto Starters.png]] || Mario Maker Kanto first partners.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:Mario Maker Kanto Starters.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:Unova Starters Adventures.png]] || Unova first partners Adventures.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:Unova Starters Adventures.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:Rei Hisui Starters.png]] || Rei Hisui first partners.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:Rei Hisui Starters.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:Johto starters and friends.png]] || Johto first partners and friends.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:Johto starters and friends.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:Ash Kanto starters.png]] || Ash Kanto first partners.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:Ash Kanto starters.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:Ruby and his starters.png]] || Ruby and his first Pokémon.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:Ruby and his starters.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:Max Kanto Hoenn starters.png]] || Max Kanto Hoenn first partners.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:Max Kanto Hoenn starters.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:Ash and Kanto starters.png]] || Ash and Kanto first partners.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:Ash and Kanto starters.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:Galar Starters Spirit.png]] || Grookey Scorbunny and Sobble Spirit.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:Galar Starters Spirit.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:XY Prerelease Kanto starters.png]] || XY Prerelease Kanto first partners.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:XY Prerelease Kanto starters.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:Liko Roy Dot Paldean Starters.png]] || Liko Roy Dot Paldean first partners.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:Liko Roy Dot Paldean Starters.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:Ash Kanto starters Elemental Combo.png]] || Ash Kanto first partners Elemental Combo.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:Ash Kanto starters Elemental Combo.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:Hoenn starters ORAS Trailer.png]] || Hoenn first partners ORAS Trailer.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:Hoenn starters ORAS Trailer.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:Hoenn Starters Training Adventures.png]] || Hoenn first partners training Adventures.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:Hoenn Starters Training Adventures.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:Bandai Evolved Starters card.jpg]] || Bandai evolved first partners card.jpg || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:Bandai Evolved Starters card.jpg]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:Bandai Starters card.jpg]] || Bandai first partners card.jpg || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:Bandai Starters card.jpg]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:Rowan Sinnoh starters DPA.png]] || Rowan Sinnoh first partners DPA.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:Rowan Sinnoh starters DPA.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:Cheren and Unova starters PBW.png]] || Cheren and Unova first partners PBW.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:Cheren and Unova starters PBW.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:Kalos starters XY anime.png]] || Kalos first partners XY anime.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:Kalos starters XY anime.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:North America February 2015 Hidden Ability Unova Starters.png]] || North America February 2015 Hidden Ability Unova First Partners.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:North America February 2015 Hidden Ability Unova Starters.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:Kalos starters XY anime 2.png]] || Kalos first partners XY anime 2.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:Kalos starters XY anime 2.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:Starters Ultimate Attacks Adventures.png]] || First partners Ultimate Attacks Adventures.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:Starters Ultimate Attacks Adventures.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:Unova Starters Pledge moves Adventures.png]] || Unova first partners Pledge moves Adventures.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:Unova Starters Pledge moves Adventures.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:Worlds2014 PhoneCaseKalosStarters.jpg]] || Worlds 2014 Kalos Pokémon Phone Case.jpg || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:Worlds2014 PhoneCaseKalosStarters.jpg]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:Worlds2014 FinalFierceKalosStartersTShirt.jpg]] || Worlds 2014 Kalos Pokémon Final Fierce T-Shirt.jpg || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:Worlds2014 FinalFierceKalosStartersTShirt.jpg]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:MainSeriesStarters.png]] || DP anime all first partners.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:MainSeriesStarters.png]]</s>
|}

Broadly, the rest of this process will affect a few templates and categories, as well as require a scouring of the main, template, bulbapedia, appendix, and category namespaces for usages of "starter" and replacing them. The move of this page and therefore most of the link/text replacement is planned for the weekend. We may throw in another little in-between step. But for now, staff will move the images above as soon as possible, and as that occurs, we invite anyone who wishes to help us update the filenames here. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 03:49, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
:The second image is running into conflicts with the "Pikachu in a cap" images (specifically the Partner Cap Pikachu). To fix that, we should move the Partner cap image, and also move the other images in the set for consistency.
:{| class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
! File || New name || Relink check
|-
| [[a:File:0025Pikachu-Partner.png]] || 0025Pikachu-Partner Cap.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:0025Pikachu-Partner.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:0025Pikachu-Alola.png]] || 0025Pikachu-Alola Cap.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:0025Pikachu-Alola.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:0025Pikachu-Hoenn.png]] || 0025Pikachu-Hoenn Cap.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:0025Pikachu-Hoenn.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:0025Pikachu-Kalos.png]] || 0025Pikachu-Kalos Cap.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:0025Pikachu-Kalos.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:0025Pikachu-Original.png]] || 0025Pikachu-Original Cap.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:0025Pikachu-Original.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:0025Pikachu-Sinnoh.png]] || 0025Pikachu-Sinnoh Cap.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:0025Pikachu-Sinnoh.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:0025Pikachu-Unova.png]] || 0025Pikachu-Unova Cap.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:0025Pikachu-Unova.png]]</s>
|-
| [[a:File:0025Pikachu-World.png]] || 0025Pikachu-World Cap.png || <s>[[Special:WhatLinksHere/File:0025Pikachu-World.png]]</s>
|}
: --[[User:Boblers|Boblers]] ([[User talk:Boblers|talk]]) 07:08, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
:: Additional note: please fix the links for the Partner cap Pikachu ''before'' starting to fix links for the Lets Go Pikachu, to avoid confusion when doing the latter. --[[User:Boblers|Boblers]] ([[User talk:Boblers|talk]]) 07:23, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

You may have noticed that this page has been moved. Overall, the following changes have been made aside from updating [[first partner Pokémon]]:
* Mainspaced: [[List of characters with first partner Pokémon]], [[List of characters' first Pokémon]], [[List of the player's first Pokémon]]
* Templates moved: [[Template:First partner trios]], [[Template:User First Partner]], [[Template:User Favorite First Partner]]
* Categories moved: [[:Category:First partner Pokémon]], [[:Category:Adventures characters' first Pokémon]], [[:Category:Anime characters' first Pokémon]]

The categories have currently all been updated, as well as most of the templates.

We are working on relinking and replacing "starter" and "starter Pokémon", but there are many instances of that, so everyone's help is welcome! Keep in mind that some old uses of "starter" may more appropriately refer to one of the newly mainspaced pages instead of first partner Pokémon. For example, a character's first Pokémon has commonly been referred to as their starter in the past, but now we must distinguish such Pokémon as the character's first Pokémon (not a "starter" or "first partner Pokémon"), so if starter was used in that context, (if it was a link) linking to [[List of characters' first Pokémon]] or (if it was just text) replacing it with "first Pokémon" would be most appropriate.

Again, remember that "starter" will have to be replaced in most main, Template, Bulbapedia, Appendix, and Category usages, as well as on the Archives. Be careful of the places where it may be part of a title or other term (especially TCG pages); if you're not sure, you can always ask. But there's a lot to get through here! [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 21:39, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
:I'm a little confused on how we should pick between linking to first partner Pokémon (FPP), List of characters' first Pokémon (characters' FP), and List of the player's first Pokémon (player's FP)? There seem to be some edge cases, so I'm thinking up some general guidelines to follow:
:* If the context is referring to the Pokémon species traditionally considered first partners, but not in a situation where they are actually someone's first Pokémon, that should point to FPP, right? (example: when describing the groups of Pokémon that can appear in the [[Terarium]].)
:* If the context is talking about the first Pokémon a player receives/chooses in a game, should that point to FPP or player's FP?
:** If talking about a player character, such as [[Chase (game)|Chase]] or [[Elaine (game)|Elaine]], should we point to FPP, player's FP, or character's FP? (edit: this can become problematic due to the existence of Masters, where player characters are their own entity and do not embody the player)
:* If the context is talking about the first Pokémon a character received, that should point at characters' FP, right? (example: talking about Cilan's Pansage)
:** If a character's first Pokémon is one that's traditionally considered a first partner, should that point to FPP or character's FP? (example: talking about Liko's Sprigatito) --[[User:Boblers|Boblers]] ([[User talk:Boblers|talk]]) 13:23, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
::There are some cases where it's easy just based on the empty facts, yes. A trio member, but not anyone's first? First partner Pokemon. Someone's first, but not a trio or anything? First Pokemon.
::But the rest is just a question of what are you actually talking about. If you're talking about Liko's Sprigatito, you can say something like Liko received a first partner Pokemon, or Liko received her first Pokemon. Both are valid depending on what you actually want to communicate. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 13:58, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

Is Player’s First Pokémon supposed to be used mostly for non-core series games, or is there another category that it should be used in? I’m sure the information is somewhere, but I couldn’t find it, so I thought it might be helpful if someone answered this here for reference. [[User:CyberDragonM|CyberDragonM]] ([[User talk:CyberDragonM|talk]]) 17:41, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
:The page [[list of the player's first Pokémon]] contains all games.
:The term first Pokémon refers to any game, media, character, player, whatever. First Pokémon are not only the player's or only core or anything. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 00:40, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

Sorry, I was comparing Player’s First Pokémon to First Partner Pokémon, not to first Pokémon. The list of Player’s First Pokémon contains no info about the core series player’s first Pokémon that isn’t covered by First Partner Pokémon, but does contain info about the non-core series games. (I may or may not be accidentally including YLGPE in non-core series) [[User:CyberDragonM|CyberDragonM]] ([[User talk:CyberDragonM|talk]]) 08:28, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

~Sorry about failing to indent, and yes, all core series games are covered on this page. [[User:CyberDragonM|CyberDragonM]] ([[User talk:CyberDragonM|talk]]) 08:32, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

== Intro wording ==

About the first words on this page, I would suggest using this (which was used before in an earlier revision), as it reflects that "starter Pokémon" is an official term as well:

:A '''first partner Pokémon''' or '''starter Pokémon''' is ...

It currently says this but it does not seem to be accurate since it's not just referred to informally:

:A '''first partner Pokémon''', also referred to informally as a '''starter Pokémon''', ...

Or are there any better ideas? --[[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 14:37, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
:I think "also referred to informally and historically as a starter Pokémon" is probably the most accurate. "First partner Pokémon" is the current official term; "starter Pokémon" is the previous official term and the most common fan term, but is still permitted to be used by official media in informal contexts (such as on social media). --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 15:31, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

== Why the removal of the evolutions? ==

why do all the stats of each starter/first partner Pokemon and their posible evolutions are not in this page anymore? can we add them back? [[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 21:48, 15 March 2024 (UTC)

Talk:List of Ribbons in the games

2023-12-17T12:26:33Z

Neos: /* Partner Ribbon */ new section

I've created this page as an alternative listing of [[ribbon]]s appearing in the Pokémon games. Where the [[ribbons]] article lists ribbons by geographical location, [[list of ribbons]] is a straight list of ribbons in the Generation IV game data, by index number. It includes ribbons which cannot be obtained in-game. It follows the tradition of other alternative lists, including [[list of Pokémon|lists of Pokémon]], which lists Pokémon by several different ways, and [[list of items]]. I intend to extend the list with the inclusion of in-game descriptions for all ribbons. --[[User:JDigital|JDigital]] 00:45, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
:Can you (or anyone else) make it look more like an article and less like an infodump? —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 01:00, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

== Gift Ribbons ==

Country, National, Earth and World Ribbon give literally [http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/705/pokemonemerald06x.png no text]{{tt|*|Obviously, this is hacked}} (heck, it doesn't override "RIBBONS {{tt|X|amount of Ribbons on current Pokémon}}") in Generation III{{tt|*|Below is Generation IV and V}}. However, some of dump text is... exactly the same!
:National
::A Ribbon awarded for overcoming all difficult challenges
:Earth
::A Ribbon awarded for winning 100 matches in a row.
:World and Country
::Pokémon League Champion Ribbon.
:Dump text
::RIBBON awarded for clearing all difficulties (III)/A Ribbon awarded for overcoming all difficult challenges. (IV)
::Difficulty-clearing Commemorative RIBBON (III)/A Ribbon awarded for overcoming difficult challenges. (IV)
::100-straight Win Commemorative RIBBON (III)/A Ribbon awarded for winning 100 matches in a row. (IV)
::POKÉMON LEAGUE CUP CHAMPION RIBBON (III)/Pokémon League Champion Ribbon (IV)
What's your opinion on all {{tt|this|Also, yes, all the Ribbons deleted in Gen V have 'A commemorative Ribbon obtained in a Mystery Zone.' in Generation IV, and the three available in Generation III don't show text, similar to the four Gift Ribbons above; no idea if it's just me}}? On unrelated note, I have Japanese names for the missing ribbons (though I still need to check Generation IV for Souvenir, Wish and Event Ribbon [then called by different names], just in case the name change was also in Japanese games) [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] ([[User talk:Marked +-+-+|talk]]) 15:40, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

== Japanese names. ==

[http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/6080/specialribbon.png Special], [http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/2464/battlechmp.png Battle Champion], [http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/4793/regionalchmp.png Regional Champion], [http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/4408/nationalchmp.png National Champion] and [http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/926/worldchmp.png World Champion]. I'll send Souvenir/Festival and Wishing/Carnival (and Event/History if needed) after checking Generation IV names.[[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] ([[User talk:Marked +-+-+|talk]]) 20:32, 8 December 2012 (UTC) PS. [http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/4164/redxyq.png One], [http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/4944/bluedk.png two], and [http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/4431/greenar.png three]. The changes also occurred in Japanese games. [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] ([[User talk:Marked +-+-+|talk]]) 22:29, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

== Contest Memory Ribbon and Battle Memory Ribbon gold versions ==

Serebii and a site called pocketmonsters.net both have information about how to get the gold Contest/Battle Memory ribbons (with Serebii's somewhat more vague), but I don't think it's okay to just use their info here. It'd be nice if someone could confirm the requirements independently so we can change the "Other info" for the gold versions of the ribbons. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 08:25, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

== What is the most ribbons a single Pokemon can have? ==

Lets say you get an event Pokemon in Gen 3 that has an event ribbon. You then get as many ribbons as you can and then move it from gen 3 to gen 4 using hit pal park. Then to gen 5 , then gen 6. What is the most ribbons that Pokemon can have? Getting as many ribbons as possible in each generation. [[User:Boorider7|Boorider7]] ([[User talk:Boorider7|talk]]) 20:35, 15 August 2016 (UTC)

:If you receive an event pokemon in Gen 3, then the max a Pokemon can have is 30 ribbons (4 champion ribbons, 6 contest spectacular ribbons, 2 memory ribbons, 2 battler ribbons, 7 daily ribbons, 3 royal ribbons, 1 effort, 1 footprint, 1 training and 1 best friends, 1 artist and whatever ribbon the event had).

:If you have one pokemon purified from Colosseum, then it will have 31 ribbons (4 champion ribbons, 6 contest spectacular ribbons, 2 memory ribbons, 2 battler ribbons, 7 daily ribbons, 3 royal ribbons, 1 effort, 1 footprint, 1 training and 1 best friends, 1 artist , 1 national ribbon and 1 earth ribbon).

:So the maximun ribbons a pokemon can have up to Gen 6 is 31, and only pokemon originating from Colosseum/XD can have that number. --[[User:PokeReiji|PokeReiji]] ([[User talk:PokeReiji|talk]]) 21:27, August 15th, 2016 (UTC)

::Edit: Now with Gen 7 there are 4 more ribbons available. So the number is up to 35. --[[User:PokeReiji|PokeReiji]] ([[User talk:PokeReiji|talk]]) 19:04, December 14th, 2016 (UTC)

:::Edit: Now with Gen 8 there are 3 more ribbons available in Sword and Shield and 1 more available in Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl. So the number is up to 39. --[[User:PokeReiji|PokeReiji]] ([[User talk:PokeReiji|talk]]) 17:43, April 19th, 2022 (UTC)

::::Edit: Now we are in Gen 9. We have the Paldean Champion, and if you sent your Pokemon to Legends Arceus and took a photograph there, you'll get the Hisui Ribbon. That makes the number up to 41. However, if you send your Pokemon from Surprise Trade it might get the Once-in-a-Lifetime Ribbon and get the number up to 42. --[[User:PokeReiji|PokeReiji]] ([[User talk:PokeReiji|talk]]) 10:42, March 20th, 2023 (UTC)

:::::As of the date of this comment, your last reply is remarkably incorrect. The Hisui Ribbon hasn't been officially featured or introduced yet. The Once-in-A-Lifetime Ribbon hasn't been officially introduced or featured yet (yes it's been featured on the guide, but no amount of research data proved that it's actually active, and the instances of its appearance are most likely to be attributed to save data manipulation (hacking, genning)). Furthermore, for the few participants of Pokémon Festa back in 2004 and 2005, their Pokémon could also feature the World ribbon, title: "The World Conqueror", so if one of these Pokémon was purified or had another event ribbon, the total number could be higher, in theory. Any event ribbon after Generation 3 of course isn't relevant for calculating an hypothetical maximum amount of ribbons. As a relevant note, Pokémon in Paldea can also earn marks alongside ribbons: Gourmand and Partner mark can be added to the list, while we don't know yet if Jumbo and Tiny are applicable as the size interpretation of Pokémon travelling from other regions hasn't been officially introduced yet. The Alpha and Itemfinder Mark haven't also been introduced yet, despite the latter being featured in the official guide. [[User:Williamgg|Williamgg]] ([[User talk:Williamgg|talk]]) 13:35, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

== well..... ==

[https://youtube.com/watch?v=b0c7bdNCvXM] we have our (your) work cut out for you (us) [[User:Wild Starfish|Wild Starfish]] ([[User talk:Wild Starfish|talk]]) 01:00, 4 March 2020 (UTC) [[User:Wild Starfish|Wild Starfish]] ([[User talk:Wild Starfish|talk]]) 01:00, 4 March 2020 (UTC) [[User:Wild Starfish|Wild Starfish]] ([[User talk:Wild Starfish|talk]]) 01:00, 4 March 2020 (UTC)

== BDSP Ribbons? ==

The page seems to be missing a lot of information for the BDSP ribbons? The Daily Ribbons, Syndicate Ribbons, Footprint Ribbon and Sinnoh Champion Ribbon all appear to be identical to their Gen IV counterparts (and the page is up to date actually for those cases); and aside from the new Twinkling Star Ribbon, all the contest ribbons use the same names, descriptions and sprites as the ORAS Contest Spectacular Ribbons. The Battle Tower uses the same Tower Master Ribbon as Galar's Battle Tower apparently (same name and sprite)? Additionally, there's the Best Friend Ribbon from Gen VI onwards. I would update this information myself, but I'm not sure how to proceed on the matter. It's especially glaring when some of the sections have already been updated for BDSP when others haven't. And the new Twinkling Star Ribbon is completely absent from the page.

I suppose some of the similar Ribbons might actually be different, and beyond looking at the code, there's no way to tell until we get Home compatibility, but surely it's a reasonable assumption that they're the same? I understand that there's precedent for identically-named ribbons to be entirely different from each other, but in those cases, they had different sprites (Gen IV Sinnoh's Contest Ribbons are shield-shaped, Gen III Hoenn's are round) and descriptions.
--[[User:PatManDX|PatManDX]] ([[User talk:PatManDX|talk]]) 15:18, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

== Sky/Marine Ribbon ==

A German debug cart was recently found that when the "Ribbon" option is pressed, a sky/marine ribbon is given to the linked games party. I believe it's through e-reader emulation, not sure though. Should we add this to the article considering it can be achieved through real hardware? I also don't know which ribbon it is, so I'll check back on that when I get home.--[[User:Editauros|Editauros]] ([[User talk:Editauros|talk]]) 15:18, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

== Move? ==

It might make sense to move this article to '''List of Ribbons in the Pokémon games''', to match [[Moves not in the Pokémon games]], [[Voice acting in the Pokémon games]], [[List of localization changes in the Pokémon games]], and [[Text entry in the Pokémon games]]. Unless we want to rename the other four instead, or reevaluate all five of them. [[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']] 18:53, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

== Partner Ribbon ==

There is a new Ribbon called Partner Ribbon that is always present in pokemon that you get in trades at blueberry academy league club. --[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 12:26, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

Talk:List of Pokémon by National Pokédex number/Archive 2

2023-12-14T14:34:04Z

Neos: /* Ursaluna (Bloodmoon form) */ new section

== Archives ==
* [[Talk:List of Pokémon by National Pokédex number/Archive 1|Archive 1]]
__TOC__
== Gen VI ==
<s>Could Aurorus and Tyrantrum be added to the page, or will they be added after this mystery Pokémon is revealed tomorrow?</s> Scratch that. Aurorus, Tyrantrum, and Doublade need to be added. --[[User talk:Relicant|The]] [[Special:Contributions/Relicant|Truth]] aka Relicant 16:19, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

== 719, 720, 721 ==

I remember reading somewhere that someone discovered Pokemon past Zygarde. Should we add them? [[User:Liberty Bell|Liberty Bell]] ([[User talk:Liberty Bell|talk]]) 14:25, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
:We know about them, but we can't really confirm them since this time we neither can crack into the game to see all the data, nor they've been officialy revealed... at least for now. [[User:Uploader|Uploader]] ([[User talk:Uploader|talk]]) 14:39, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

== Cottonee's type change ==

Can anyone add Fairy type to Cottonee please, that's because it's evolution is also Fairy type. Thank you! [[User:Cinday123|Cinday123]] ([[User talk:Cinday123|talk]]) 06:56, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

== False typing ==

Cottonee and Whimsicott are not fairy type. Why do people keep stating that when you cannot even find them in x or y? --[[User:Admantus|Admantus]] ([[User talk:Admantus|talk]]) 19:07, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
:You can't catch them yourself, but they are used by other Trainers in battle facilities, etc. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 20:19, 1 December 2013 (UTC)

::And according to Serebii, Cottonee line is now Fairy type, however, you can't catch them in Kalos and the only way to get them is to transfer Pokémon from Black, White, Black 2 or White 2 to X or Y, this is because it is not available to catch in Kalos however you have a chance to see them in battle facilities whereas Trainers used Whimsicott. [[User:Cinday123|Cinday123]] ([[User talk:Cinday123|talk]]) 08:52, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

Well, Serebii might be wrong, because they haven't even updated the sprites for the other unobtainable pokemon that appear post-game. I think that the types should be switched back to pure grass until pokemon bank comes out. --[[User:Admantus|Admantus]] ([[User talk:Admantus|talk]]) 20:56, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

:That has nothing to do with it. I mean, the information on Bulbapedia is always confirmed information. And any information that wasn't confirmed gets removed. So, the fact that Cottonee/Whimsicott being Grass/Fairy hasn't been removed or altered back to it's original information/typing means it's been confirmed. And like [[User:Cinday123|Cinday123]] and others have said, just because you can't catch it in the Kalos region games doesn't mean you can't still obtain it. And that means, the information for Cottonee & Whimsicott are programmed in the games. So, I say let it be. [[User:DarienLeonhart|DarienLeonhart]] ([[User talk:DarienLeonhart|talk]]) 21:52, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

== Order ==

Is it just me or are the pokemon listed for gen VI out of order? Not like broken, but I see like 114 right after 93 and etc. ★☆[[User:Togetic45|'''Toge''']][[User talk:Togetic45|'''tic''']][[Special:Contributions/Togetic45|'''45''']]☆★ 18:58, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
:It's not out of order. Those are the Pokemon's Kalos Dex numbers. The list is ordered by the National Dex numbers. --[[User:Funktastic~!|'''It's''' '''Funktastic~!''']][[User talk:Funktastic~!|''話してください'']] 19:05, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

== Secret Gen 6 Pokemon ==

What about those secret Pokemon from Gen 6? The ones after Zygarde? Shouldn't they be on here now? [[User:MegaNerd18|MegaNerd18]] ([[User talk:MegaNerd18|talk]]) 11:36, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

:I'm so sorry, the Pokémon Company haven't revealed these mythical Pokémon so let's just leave it for now until it's revealed so we don't know yet. [[User:Cinday123|Cinday123]] ''([[User talk:Cinday123|Talk]])'' 12:24, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

Well I think the hacker who discovered the secret Pokemon is reliable because the Pokemon he found where: Hoopla, Volcanion, Daince, Fancy Vivillon, and the Mega Eon twins. Four out of six have revealed. If we do put in Hoopla and Volcaion when should put a little star (*) like on the list of Pokemon in the a area in the ranger game if you must release them after you catch them. --[[User:AbsolX|AbsolX]] ([[User talk:AbsolX|talk]]) 17:46, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

== Generation VI Sprites ==

Why there are no sprites for the new Pokémon introduced in X and Y? [[User:Dalton358|Dalton358]] ([[User talk:Dalton358|talk]]) 20:25, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
:Because we don't have them and we don't allow taking from other sites without permission. [[User:Glik|Glik]] ([[User talk:Glik|talk]]) 20:33, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
::I figured it would take longer to get them, because it's on a different system. I wonder how the other websites got their images. [[User:Dalton358|Dalton358]] ([[User talk:Dalton358|talk]]) 21:41, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
:::They have 3DS capture cards. Few Bulbapedia users do, and the only ones I've seen with them have been focusing on other things, like Trainer images. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 21:44, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

== Multiple Pokédeces in Generation VI ==
In the Generation VI, there are 3 Pokédeces: Kalos Central, Kalos Coastal and Kalos Mountain. For example:
# Chespin is Kalos Central #001
# Inkay is Kalos Coastal #010
# Goomy is Kalos Mountain #019
The list doesn't reflect it.

-[[User:Iosue|Iosue]] ([[User talk:Iosue|talk]]) 08:27, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
:That's because this is the National Pokédex list. You want [[List of Pokémon by Kalos Pokédex number]]. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 08:32, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
::Of course I understand that. I am not stupid. I can read. What I am suggesting is to add a very small token in front of each Kalos number to indicate if it is Central, Coastal or Mountain, as these are a part of the Generation VI dex. If there is no indication of the sub-region, the column of the table of Generation VI will have limited meaning here. I'd suggest you either delete the whole column, or add the small indication of which sub-region the number belongs to. -[[User:Iosue|Iosue]] ([[User talk:Iosue|talk]]) 04:39, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
:::This is still an issue. Scatterbug and Sligoo are still labeled with the same number in the Kalos Dex without distinction. Also, that column is labelled VIDex, which will be misleading with the release of ORAS. --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 06:55, 17 July 2014 (UTC)
::::I concur with the main issue. Don't write completely undifferentiated numbers as if all you have to do is scroll through one Pokedex to find any given Pokemon; that's not at all the case. Do something like this:
{{rdexh|X|Y|dexname={{color2|000|List of Pokémon by Kalos Pokédex number|VIdex}}}}
{{rdex|001Ce|650|Chespin|1|Grass}}
{{rdex|002Ce|651|Quilladin|1|Grass}}
|}
::::I would also strongly suggest linking the regional 'dex abbreviations in the headers so people can click on them and immediately jump to those 'dexes. (If this were done, this would make "VIdex" less "misleading".) I linked "VIdex" above, and I'll demonstrate the same for the other generations below...
{{rdexh|red|green|dexname={{color2|000|List of Pokémon by Kanto Pokédex number|Kdex}}}}
|}
{{rdexh|gold|silver|dexname={{color2|000|List of Pokémon by Johto Pokédex number|Jdex}}}}
|}
{{rdexh|ruby|sapphire|dexname={{color2|000|List of Pokémon by Hoenn Pokédex number|Hdex}}}}
|}
{{rdexh|diamond|pearl|dexname={{color2|000|List of Pokémon by Sinnoh Pokédex number|Sdex}}}}
|}
{{rdexh|black|white|dexname={{color2|000|List of Pokémon by Unova Pokédex number|Udex}}}}
|}
::::For that matter, I'd also suggest linking "Ndex" similarly in [[Template:Rdexh|the header template]] so it links easily back here on the regional 'dex pages. ...And "Type" could also be linked, just because it's the sort of thing that ''should'' be clickable. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 08:47, 17 July 2014 (UTC)
:::::This is still an issue. Scatterbug and Sligoo are still labeled with the same number in the Kalos Dex without distinction. Also, Diancie needs its Kalos Dex number added (#151 in Central). --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 09:43, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
::::::As Abcboy said, this remains an issue. I have taken the liberty of creating [[User:Tiddlywinks/List of Pokémon by National Pokédex number|a user page]] that fixes the main issue in this discussion. The page also incorporates my idea for 'dex links in the headers, as well as renames the Kalos section's table header from "VIdex", a name that is not proper considering the existence of ORAS now.
::::::I hope someone on staff will take a cursory look at my user page and then copy the code onto this page (give or take the headers, perhaps), so that this issue may finally be solved. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 21:58, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
:::::::Bump... [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 10:29, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

== Color ==

I noticed that the color coordination is not in accord with the Kalos National Pokédex. Shouldn't each region get the appropriate color attributed to them? [[User:Mr. Guye|Mr. Guye]] ([[User talk:Mr. Guye|talk]]) 20:57, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

:Interesting observation. I had never noticed the color coding in the Kalos National Pokédex before, but it's there, and is to my knowledge the first time an official source has used color coding to denote regions.
:Bulbapedia currently uses specific colors for regions, but this particular page uses the colors of the first games taking place in those regions. Perhaps the colors for the tables on this page should be replaced with the region colors. Meanwhile, replacing the region colors themselves with the ones in X and Y is a discussion that should take place but might be too big for this page. I would recommend taking that up with a staff member. --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] [[User talk:AndyPKMN|(talk)]] 18:36, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

== The icon for diancie. ==
Now that Diancie has been released, you guys need to update this page to contain the sprite for diancie so it is no longer a grey question mark. [[User:Randomviewer896|Random Viewer]]

== Flabébé line ==

We've done it for Shaymin, Burmy and Rotom (as well as others) and the sprites are in the Archives, so can an admin (since I can't edit the page) add on the different mini sprites of them, or explain to me why they aren't used on it? Thanks.--[[User:Ditto51|Ditto51/Tom]] ([[User_Talk:Ditto51|My Talk Page]]) 20:47, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

== Save space ==

Welcome. I got the idea, in which a list of Pokemon replace the tiles. It would have saved a lot of space and reduced the site to a minimum. Imagine this:
{|
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #001
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:001Bulbasaur.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Bulbasaur}}}}}
|-
| align=center style="{{roundybl|5px}} background:#{{Grass color}}" width=50% | [[Grass (type)|Grass]]
| align=center style="{{roundybr|5px}}; background:#{{Poison color}}" width=50% | [[Poison (type)|Poison]]
|}
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #002
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:002Ivysaur.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Ivysaur}}}}}
|-
| align=center style="{{roundybl|5px}} background:#{{Grass color}}" width=50% | [[Grass (type)|Grass]]
| align=center style="{{roundybr|5px}}; background:#{{Poison color}}" width=50% | [[Poison (type)|Poison]]
|}
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #003
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:003Venusaur.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Venusaur}}}}}
|-
| align=center style="{{roundybl|5px}} background:#{{Grass color}}" width=50% | [[Grass (type)|Grass]]
| align=center style="{{roundybr|5px}}; background:#{{Poison color}}" width=50% | [[Poison (type)|Poison]]
|}
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #004
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:004Charmander.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Charmander}}}}}
|-
| colspan=2 align=center style="{{roundybottom|5px}} background:#{{Fire color}}" | [[Fire (type)|Fire]]
|}
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #005
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:005Charmeleon.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Charmeleon}}}}}
|-
| colspan=2 align=center style="{{roundybottom|5px}} background:#{{Fire color}}" | [[Fire (type)|Fire]]
|}
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #006
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:006Charizard.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Charizard}}}}}
|-
| align=center style="{{roundybl|5px}} background:#{{Fire color}}" width=50% | [[Fire (type)|Fire]]
| align=center style="{{roundybr|5px}}; background:#{{Flying color}}" width=50% | [[Flying (type)|Flying]]
|}
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #007
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:007Squirtle.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Squirtle}}}}}
|-
| colspan=2 align=center style="{{roundybottom|5px}} background:#{{Water color}}" | [[Water (type)|Water]]
|}
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #008
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:008Wartortle.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Wartortle}}}}}
|-
| colspan=2 align=center style="{{roundybottom|5px}} background:#{{Water color}}" | [[Water (type)|Water]]
|}
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #009
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:009Blastoise.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Blastoise}}}}}
|-
| colspan=2 align=center style="{{roundybottom|5px}} background:#{{Water color}}" | [[Water (type)|Water]]
|}
|}

As you can see images of Pokémon will be bigger and will take less than half the length now. --[[User:Dominikololo|Dominikololo]] ([[User talk:Dominikololo|talk]]) 09:47, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

:I don't necessarily agree with this idea. It looks better and shows off a Pokémon's appearance in full instead of just resorting to the icon, yes, but it's a lot more complex to work with incase there's an error. If you want to make it, you can do it as a personal user page under something like [[User:Dominikololo/Visual National Pokédex]] just to give us a full example. [[User:Superjustinbros.|Superjustinbros.]] ([[User talk:Superjustinbros.|talk]]) 03:30, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

== Generation III ==

Considering the fact the Johto Pokédex part of the Gen II Pokémon section was updated to the newer version from HG/SS, it's probably best we update Hoenn's under the Gen III Pokémon section to the one from ΩR/αS. [[User:Nintendocan|Nintendocan]] ([[User talk:Nintendocan|talk]]) 00:17, 25 December 2014 (UTC)

== Hoopa Unbound and Dex numbers ==

Hoopa's Unbound form needs to be added. Diancie, Hoopa and Volcanion's Dex numbers also. [[User:Asmod96|Asmod96]] ([[User talk:Asmod96|talk]]) 16:09, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

{{rdexh|X|Y|VI}}
{{rdex|150|718|Zygarde|2|Dragon|Ground}}
{{rdex|151|719|Diancie|2|Rock|Fairy}}
{{rdex|152|720|Hoopa|2|Psychic|Ghost}}
{{rdex|152|720U|Hoopa|2|Psychic|Dark}}
{{rdex|153|721|Volcanion|2|Fire|Water}}
|}

== Sun and Moon Legendary Mascots ==

Can someone who has access to editing this page add [http://www.serebii.net/news/2016/20-April-2016.shtml Solgaleo and Lunaala] to the Gen VII list? They have been revealed along with the Alola starters, but remained nameless in the video. --[[User:PKMNAdventurer|PKMNAdventurer]] ([[User talk:PKMNAdventurer|talk]]) 23:16, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
:As you say, they are nameless. Until there is confirmation, we will not be assuming their names. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 23:26, 10 May 2016 (UTC)

== Charjabug and Vikavolt ==

Shouldn't Charjabug and Vikavolt be immediately after Grubbin, seeing as they're its evolutions? [[User:Pokemega32|Pokemega32]] ([[User talk:Pokemega32|talk]]) 13:55, 1 July 2016 (UTC)
:I noticed that too; I think whoever renamed/added them meant to move both Rockruff and Komala down, but somehow missed Rockruff... [[User:AmoongussForLife|AmoongussForLife]] ([[User talk:AmoongussForLife|talk]]) 14:14, 1 July 2016 (UTC)
::Just went to look at it and it seems SnorlaxMonster got it covered. Thanks for pointing it out. Too bad we don't know anything about their official numbering yet, but I guess they want to keep some things (how many 'Mons, for instance" a secret, so meh. [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 17:32, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

== Hippowdon ==

If Unfezant and Frillish line are included twice for both genders, shouldn't Hippowdon be added as well? Their appearance is quite different as well.
Same goes for several other cases, if Hoopa and Meloetta have their forms added, why not Keldeo or Kami trio? Who decides what should appear and what shouldn't, and by what rule??? {{unsigned|KingisNitro}}
:The Hippos, it may be because official art (see [[Hippopotas (Pokémon)]], the big image at the top) AFAIK has never depicted the female forms, while for {{p|Frillish}} and {{p|Unfezant}} it has.
:The difference between Hoopa and Meoetta vs Keldeo and the Kami trio may be that the former change types when they change form. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 16:35, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
::Another contributing reason is that the game does not have gender-specific menu sprites for the Hippopotas family. Together with the lack of a type difference between genders, adding a seperate row for the other gender will not accomplish anything content-wise. [[User:Chenzw|Chenzw]] ([[User talk:Chenzw|talk]]) 16:49, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
:::Basculin is also listed twice, by the way. Vivillon, that also changes menu sprite depending on forms, is only included once (understandably because of how many form differences it has).
:::I mean I was mostly asking, so thanks for "justifying" it. Also, regarding whether it adds anything content-wise - except for the type changing forms, nothing really adds any content (Frillish, Hippos, Unfezant, Basculin, Vivillon), which is why I was puzzled. Didn't seem like there was any actual reason to include multiples. But I guess Sugimori arts are a good enough reason (I just couldn't figure it out). {{unsigned|KingisNitro}}

== Alolan ==

Someone needs to add the recently revealed Pokemon, which I assume would include Alolan Forms (as they all change type.) [[User:AmoongussForLife|AmoongussForLife]] ([[User talk:AmoongussForLife|talk]]) 17:32, 1 August 2016 (UTC)

:No, I think this page is better suited for the Pokémon with their natural Pokémon types to help prevent the page from getting too messy or confusing. This is why separate sub-pages are better suited to handling this such as the [[Mega Evolution]] page. -[[User:Tyler53841|Tyler53841]] ([[User talk:Tyler53841|talk]]) 00:37, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
::FWIW, the Alola Forms' types are no less natural than the forms we've always known. That said, we haven't yet decided whether we want the Alola Forms here or not. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 00:41, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
:::I would think that the Alolan Forms should be added, as the type changes, it appears the Pokémon don't switch between the two (an Ice/Fairy Ninetales would have Ice Vulpix), and multiple entries are added for Darmanitan, which is a similar case. I suppose the second point is mostly speculation at this point, though, but I don't think it would hurt the page overall. [[User:AmoongussForLife|AmoongussForLife]] ([[User talk:AmoongussForLife|talk]]) 01:06, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

== Wimpod's types ==

[[Wimpod]]'s types are Bug/Water, not Water/Bug. Someone should fix it. --[[User:RafaelGN|RafaelGN]] ([[User talk:RafaelGN|talk]]) 03:09, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
:Fixed. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 03:23, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

== Wishiwashi, Pyukumuku, and Morelull ==

This page still lists the japanese names even though the English names are revealed and confirmed and the pages for them use the English names. [[User:AztecCroc|AztecCroc]] ([[User talk:AztecCroc|talk]]) 14:16, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

== Rugarugan ==

Someone needs to add Rugarugan after Rockruff; it's been over a day. [[User:AmoongussForLife|AmoongussForLife]] ([[User talk:AmoongussForLife|talk]]) 17:19, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
:I will try see if I can. [[User:Awesomevenustoise101|Awesomevenustoise101]] ([[User talk:Awesomevenustoise101|talk]]) 17:22, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
::never mind I didn't know that the page is protected. [[User:Awesomevenustoise101|Awesomevenustoise101]] ([[User talk:Awesomevenustoise101|talk]]) 17:23, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
:::It hasn't been added because there is no page for it and it hasn't been officially revealed, it was leaked. The admins know what they are doing and it will be added when it gets added. --[[User:HoennMaster|Hoenn]][[User talk:HoennMaster|Master]] 17:25, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

== why is this page protected? ==

why is this page protected? I want to add Rugarugan after Rockruff but I can't. [[User:Awesomevenustoise101|Awesomevenustoise101]] ([[User talk:Awesomevenustoise101|talk]]) 17:25, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
:Most of the time it doesn't need to be changed, and when it does, we don't want people jumping the gun on rumors and stuff. Things like this we (as staff) update it when it's appropriate to do so. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 17:48, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

== Rowlet National dex number and menu sprites ==

On the [http://www.pokemon-sunmoon.com/en-us/pokemon-bank/ Pokémon Bank page] on the official site, menu sprites for several Gen VII Pokémon have been shown, and Rowlet have been confirmed as #722. Here's direct links for the relevant images: [http://www.pokemon-sunmoon.com/media/uploads/sept_20_assets/screenshots/top/sept20_p12_01_en.png Top screen], [http://www.pokemon-sunmoon.com/media/uploads/sept_20_assets/screenshots/bottom/sept20_p12_01_en.png Bottom screen] - [[User:RHeegaard|RHeegaard]] ([[User talk:RHeegaard|talk]]) 00:21, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

:I'm assuming that the reason only Rowlet, Litten, Popplio, and Pikipek were uploaded is because they are the only ones with numbers (I am curious where you got official evidence of Litten, Popplio, and Pikipek's numbers though?), but would it not be possible to upload the others as "DrampaMS.png" and such so that they can be listed? It would make the table easier to read, I think. It's also what we do with artwork (whereas Pikachu's artwork is [[a:File:025Pikachu.png|File:025Pikachu.png]], Drampa's is [[a:File:Drampa.png|File:Drampa.png]]), so it's not like it goes against Bulbapedia's other efforts. [[User:Nutter Butter|Nutter Butter]] ([[User talk:Nutter Butter|talk]]) 03:05, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
::In large part, most places where menu sprites are used simply ''cannot'' accomodate filenames like DrampaMS (this page being an excellent example of such a place). The few places it might be usable aren't really worth it. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 03:20, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

== Additions ==

Can we add: [[Steenee (Pokémon)]], [[Tsareena (Pokémon)]], [[Hakamo-o (Pokémon)]], [[Ribombee (Pokémon)]]? [[User:Kidburla|Kidburla]] ([[User talk:Kidburla|talk]]) 14:01, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
:They've already been added. --[[User:Carmenstar97|Carmen★]] ''[[User talk:Carmenstar97|(Talk |]] [[Special:Contributions/Carmenstar97|contribs)]]'' 14:02, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
::Thanks. Seems they were added while I was typing the post. [[User:Kidburla|Kidburla]] ([[User talk:Kidburla|talk]]) 16:44, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
:::For future reference, if you just wait, someone will almost assuredly get to it soon enough. (I mean, if someone asked this every time there was a new reveal, this page would probably quickly end up bloated.) If it's 24 hours later, ''then'' it's late. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 16:50, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

== Oricorio ==

How come {{p|Castform}} has all of its forms on the list but {{p|Oricorio}} doesn't? --[[User:PKMNAdventurer|PKMNAdventurer]] ([[User talk:PKMNAdventurer|talk]]) 00:06, 6 January 2017 (UTC)
:Personally, it could be due to the criteria, but I cannot tell. So, here is a hopefully complete list of what Pokémon with multiple menu sprites appear and which do not.
:From the group that does appear: Unfezant (Gender difference), Frillish (Gender), Jellicent (Gender), Castform (Ability), Deoxys (Form), Burmy (Form), Wormadam (Form), Shellos (Form), Gastrodon (Form), Rotom (Form), Giratina (Item), Shaymin (Item), Basculin (Form), Darmanitan (Ability), Meloetta (Move), Hoopa (Item), All Alolan Pokémon (Form)
:From the group that does ''not'' appear: Pyroar (Gender difference), Meowstic (Gender), Ash-Greninja (Ability), Zygarde (Forme), Kyurem (Item), Cosplay Pikachu (Form), Pikachu (Unknown), Spiky-eared Pichu (Form), Unown (Form), Cherrim (Ability), Arceus (Item), Flabébé (Form), Floette (Form), Florges (Form), Deerling (Form), Sawsbuck (Form), Tornadus (Item), Thundurus (Item), Landorus (Item), Keldeo (Move), Vivillon (Form), Furfrou (Form), Aegislash (Ability), Oricorio (Item), Silvally (Item), Minior (Ability), All Mega/Primal Evolution Pokémon (Item/Move),
:...So, basically, I would guess that this might have been potentially overlooked. Who is to say? Granted, I do understand that Unown, Vivillon, Arceus, and Silvally likely are excluded for a good reason. --[[User:Super goku|Super goku]] ([[User talk:Super goku|talk]]) 07:19, 6 January 2017 (UTC)
::IMO, there definitely should be Oricorio with all its form, I thought that only forms with different type combination are added, but if there are also some gender differences... I even think there should be Mega Evolutions, if we will be adding forms. [[User:Asmod96|Asmod96]] ([[User talk:Asmod96|talk]]) 08:13, 16 February 2017 (UTC)
:::Most of these are probably missing because, as was mentioned in my "Hippowdon" question, they don't have official Sugimori art. Frillish has official art for both genders, while Hippowdon doesn't, hence it doesn't get two pictures. P weird reasonong, but I guess it works; Oricorio DOES have official art (in fact, most mentioned Pokemon do) and the forms change typing (good enough reason if you ask me), so I think someone should add them. Also, why can't we merge the forms into a single line (similarly to [[Pokémon with unique type combinations]] page)? {{unsigned|KingisNitro}}
::::The most important thing to remember, I think, is that this is a list of Pokémon species. It's not a list of minisprites. It's not even a list of Pokémon's types—those are included supplementarily. And it's ''certainly'' not a list of Ken Sugimori art.
::::On that note, I think the inclusion and exclusion of form differences should follow a less horrendously arbitrary standard. Either A) all forms with unique minisprites or types are included, or B) only one form per species is included, determined by a consistent criterion. If we go with A, I absolutely agree with KingisNitro that they should be merged into a single row, since it makes no sense to list the same species multiple times in a list of species. If we go B, I propose that the criterion be "whichever form is leftmost in Pokémon Bank's National Pokédex", since this is consistently a form that can be considered the most basic or "default".
::::So the question is, A or B? Should we put it up to a vote? [[User:Randomwaffle23|Randomwaffle23]] ([[User talk:Randomwaffle23|talk]]) 02:27, 4 September 2017 (UTC)
:::::I am going to mention that this technically is over six month old, but I will say that if anyone wants to put this up for a vote or needs to make a new section to discuss this can go ahead. Though, I do want to note that we now have issues with Pokémon like Togekiss who have two menu sprites just for which side they are facing. --[[User:Super goku|Super goku]] ([[User talk:Super goku|talk]]) 07:05, 14 September 2017 (UTC)
:This is still not "fixed". If castform's forms count then I really do think many of the others should be included as well. Maybe not all Unown or Vivillon forms since they're purely cosmetic. I do think forms that change type or stats should be included (like Necrozma or Zygarde forms...) -[[User:Jor1ss|Jor1ss]] ([[User talk:Jor1ss|talk]]) 17:04, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
::So, personally, I'm sorry that this keeps getting forgotten. On the other hand, even now, I can't muster enough of myself to "care" about it to check everything and do it up right... If someone wants to create a user page, we can look at it and see what's different and decide how much should be added. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 22:44, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
:::I'd love to help with adding them but maybe I can't because my account is only 1 day old? I'm also not sure what having a userpage would do for adding to the list? Isn't a userpage just a page for each user? I'm very new here so I don't really know what to do sorry. -[[User:Jor1ss|Jor1ss]] ([[User talk:Jor1ss|talk]]) 06:48, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

==Alola==

At the very top of the page, it still doesn't list Alola with the rest of the regions. [[User:AmoongussForLife|AmoongussForLife]] ([[User talk:AmoongussForLife|talk]]) 10:53, 17 January 2017 (UTC)

== Alolan Pokedex number of new Pokemon ==

The ADex numbers of Poipole, Naganadel, Stakataka, Blacephalon, and Zeraora should be changed to 261, 262, 392, 393, and 403 respectively. [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 18:13, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
:I'm not sure if this kind of a "noisy post" or "bump" is allowed, but I need to somehow get someone to pay attention to this. [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 02:00, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

== Gliscor sprite missing ==

the Gliscor Sprite is missing, can't edit to put it in [[User:Yamitora1|Yamitora1]] ([[User talk:Yamitora1|talk]]) 17:57, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

That's just an error on your end. [[User:AztecCroc|AztecCroc]] ([[User talk:AztecCroc|talk]]) 22:04, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

== Spin-off Pokedexes? ==

Sort of an off-topic but idk where else to ask; do we have Pokedexes for side/spin-off games (Rumble, Mystery Dungeon, Pinball, Ranger, Trozei/Shuffle...)? I think it would be neat to list the Pokemon with places to find them/other important information. If so - where, if not - why? If I made them on my page, could they be added to Bulba? (Where else can I ask this question?) ~[[User:KingisNitro|'''KingisNitro''']] ([[User talk:KingisNitro|talk]]) 01:04, 12 November 2018 (UTC)
:As seen in the List of Pokémon template below the articles, yes, we do have Pokédex listing of other/spin-off games. Unless there's another listing you want to suggest.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 03:32, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

== Meltan and Melmetal should not be under "generation VII" category ==

Officially, meltan and melmetal are under the region "unknown" and as such they should both be under that new category. furthermore, their pokedex numbers are 808 and 809 officially too.
{{unsigned|Supermassimo}}
:Well, I see what you mean but this list is sorted by generation. And those Pokémon were indeed introduced in the generation it says they were. --[[User:Raltseye|Raltseye]] [[User talk:Raltseye|prata med mej]] 14:08, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

::By that logic though, shouldn't Marill and Togepi be listed as generation 1 pokemon, Munchlax as a generation 3 pokemon and Magearna as a generation 6 pokemon? In fact, every single generation other than the first had a pokemon revealed in some medium before the release of the main games and this is especially true of mythicals. (Victini is in a similar situation to Meltan being listed just after the gen 4 mythicals and before the gen 5 starters even though it is considered gen 5 itself)

::In fact, the only difference is that all these other pokemon were typically revealed in movies or the anime whereas Meltan/Melmetal are playable in Pokemon Go/Let's Go. That said, these are still just spinoff games (which actually don't even have any other gen 7 pokemon in them other than alolan forms) and neither Meltan nor Melmetal are available in any mainline gen 7 games. Finally, Pokemon Go goes as far as to classify Meltan's region as "Unknown" whereas it could have easily been listed as Alola if it was intended to be a gen 7 pokemon. (And Magearna has nothing to do with either Kalos nor Alola but is still classified as "Gen 7" in the Sun/Moon pokedex.

::Sorry, for the long rant but my point is that strictly speaking the situation for Meltan/Melmetal is "Unknown" and ideally this should be reflected on the page to avoid speculating. However, if people insist on assigning a region/generation to it, I think it's far more likely to be "Galar"/"Gen 8" and not "Alola". Just my 2 cents. [[User:MCX|MCX]] ([[User talk:MCX|talk]]) 21:52, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
:::I would agree with your logic if not for your assumption that LGPE are not mainline games. They are core Pokémon games, which has been reiterated multiple times by Masuda and the others at GF. Since they’re catchable and playable in a mainline Gen VII game, they’re Gen VII Pokémon. That’s what separates them from cases like Bonsly, which I think would have been a much better example than Marill or Munchlax. --[[User:Celadonkey|celadonk]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 12:47, 18 March 2019 (UTC)
::::I'm still not convinced that it's relevant nor that it's the case that LGPE are core titles. I'm not sure which interview you are referring to when saying that Masuda has stated that LGPE are core games but afaik Sword and Shield were first announced as the unnamed 2019 mainline Switch games in e3 2017. Then LGPE were announced at a later time and people were giving GF crap until they clarified that LGPE weren't the same as the previously announced 2019 titles. Correct me if I remember any of this incorrectly but if not, this would indicate that LGPE are something less than core games. If LGPE are core games that's the equivalent of GF announcing Sun/Moon after XY and then saying "oh btw, before SM we are gonna release gen 3 remakes, they aren't the same games as SM, we just thought we should announce gen 7 first." Yeah, LGPE are much closer gameplay-wise to the core games than, say, mystery dungeon or pokemon pinball but they are also not quite there.

::::Moreover, even if Masuda has said in an interview "LGPE are core titles", I'm still not sure if that is relevant in classifying Meltan's gen. LGPE don't have Crobat or Electivire or any gen 2-7 pokemon but they have Megas and Alolan forms and Meltan. This is just a weird situation where they used Meltan as a promo thing - not at all an indication that it's gen 7. They've even dropped mainline mechanics like breeding and abilities... Meltan being there doesn't conclusively prove anything. I doubt we will get any official statement like "Btw Meltan belongs in X gen" but we are still probably going to get a conclusive answer when they colour code Meltan along with either the gen 7 or gen 8 pokemon in some future title's pokedex. I'm just saying that until then we should keep its status as "Unknown" because that's what it currently is. [[User:MCX|MCX]] ([[User talk:MCX|talk]]) 23:49, 26 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::You can check the interview section in the LGPE guidebook if you don't believe that he explicitly has said that they're core titles. "These games aren't spinoffs. These are core Pokémon titles" is the exact quote. Since Meltan and Melmetal appeared in Gen 7 core titles, they're Gen 7 Pokemon. Simple enough. If for whatever reason they change that, then we'll change that too. But we don't really have any reason to believe otherwise. --[[User:Celadonkey|celadonk]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 23:56, 26 March 2019 (UTC)

== Request to add Trivia section ==

I would like to see a Trivia section added to the bottom of the list, with the following single item:

* With the sole exception of {{p|Type: Null}}, all English Pokémon names in this list are also used for Italian and Spanish languages. The names for '''Type: Null''' in Italian and Spanish are, respectively, ''Tipo Zero'' and ''Código Cero''.

This is to avoid the need for any separate '''List of Italian Pokémon names''' and '''List of Spanish Pokémon names''' pages that would differ from this English page by ONLY ONE ROW. ''(Currently, those two page titles are redirects to the English list.)'' --[[User:SilSinn9801|''SilSinn'']] ([[TID]]s: '''768426[[Pokémon Sun|S]]''', '''123446[[Pokémon Ultra Moon|UM]]''') ([[User talk:SilSinn9801|talk]]) 10:01, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

==Gen 8 Starters==
Grookey, Scorbunny, and Sobble would be National Pokedex 810, 813, and 816. Can these numbers please be added? [[User:Kimichael4317|Kimichael4317]] ([[User talk:Kimichael4317|talk]]) 05:38, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
:We do not actually ''know'' that so no, they won't be added. --[[User:Raltseye|Raltseye]] [[User talk:Raltseye|prata med mej]] 05:43, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
::We have no guarantee as to whether there would be another Victini-like scenario where a Mythical Pokémon would be enumerated right before the starters (as happened in Unova, twice). Hence why we cannot safely assume 810, 813, 816 – it could end up being 811, 814, 817. ‑‑[[User:SilSinn9801|''SilSinn'']] ([[TID]]s: '''768426[[Pokémon Sun|S]]''', '''123446[[Pokémon Ultra Moon|UM]]''') [[User talk:SilSinn9801|💬]] 07:52, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

== Zekrom has an extra space next to his name. ==

That is all. {{unsigned|MrKarato}}
:Fixed. And don't forget to sign your comments.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 06:01, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

== Handling forms + smaller suggestions ==

As far as I can tell there's no pattern to how forms are handled on this page. Some Pokémon with alternate forms or major gender differences have their forms present, others do not. Frankly, since it’s a list of Pokémon species according to their number, no Pokémon with form differences should be even included in a different line. Either the alternate forms should be removed entirely, only including the “base” form, or the lines should be combined like on List of Pokémon with unique type combinations. Personally, I'd prefer to have no forms displayed-- it would make the page a whole lot cleaner and easier to use-- but I can see the purpose of displaying forms, so I think that something like this would be best:

{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{firered color}}; background: #{{firered color}}"
! style="{{roundytl|5px}}; background: #{{leafgreen color light}}" | Kdex
! style="background: #{{leafgreen color light}}" | Ndex
! style="background: #{{leafgreen color light}}" | MS
! style="background: #{{leafgreen color light}}" | Pokémon
! style="{{roundytr|5px}}; background: #{{leafgreen color light}}" colspan="2" | Type</noinclude>
|- style="background:#FFF"
| rowspan="2" style="font-family:monospace" | <nowiki>#</nowiki>026
| rowspan="2" style="font-family:monospace" | <nowiki>#</nowiki>026
| {{MSP|026|Raichu}}
| rowspan="2" | {{p|Raichu}}
| colspan="2" style="text-align:center; background:#{{electric color}}" | [[Electric (type)|Electric]]
|- style="background:#FFF"
| {{MSP|026A|Raichu}}
| style="text-align:center; background:#{{electric color}}" | [[Electric (type)|Electric]]
| style="text-align:center; background:#{{psychic color}}" | [[Psychic (type)|Psychic]]
|}

Again, I think that not displaying forms would be the best way to go, but either way, the current system of handling forms is unsatisfactory, both in the inconsistency between which forms are shown and which are not, and in the actual formatting of the forms.

Additionally, I have two smaller suggestions. First, I believe that it would be better to display the National Pokédex number before the regional Pokédex number, rather than vice versa, as this is a page on the National Pokédex, and that should take priority. Second, at the end of each section, there is no roundy template on the bottom, as you can see above, which makes the bottom of each section square and not as aesthetically pleasing. --[[User:Celadonkey|celadonk]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 20:05, 29 March 2019 (UTC)

The problem with formes/forms is that there's many different kinds of forms. There's only visual forms (most male female differences/unown forms etc) and there's forms where the stats change (meowstic male/female for instance). There's forms where the typing changes (Wormadom/Necrozma's various forms). There's temporary forms that are only visible in battle (megas/greninja/cherubi). There's temporary forms that are changed by using an item or by depositing the pokemon or by whatever arbitrary reason (giratina/tornadus etc.). There's also regional forms, where a pokemon cannot change to the other form but is basically a different pokemon altogether (alolan and soon galarian forms). Maybe the list should just include all the base forms? And then there could be a seperate table listing all the additional forms for a pokemon?[[User:Jor1ss|Jor1ss]] ([[User talk:Jor1ss|talk]]) 12:40, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

== Information to readers ==

I want to modify the title section, but I have no permission. Could someone add the sentence “All English, Italian and Spanish Pokémon names are identical, but, depending on the language, they're pronounced differently.”? --[[User:TheICTLiker4|'''TheICT''']][[User talk:TheICTLiker4|'''Liker4''']] 18:19, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
:That's not relevant to the article at all.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 04:13, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
::Well, most european languages use the same names as the English version anyway, in fact only German and French are the the ones that consistently differ. Unless you count the languages that use a different alphabet, only Serbian, Lithuanian and some more perhaps are the only ones that does not use the standard English names instead transcribing it to their own orthography. So I see no really point in mentioned them all here. A simple line like <code>most other languages using the Latin alphabet also uses these names</code> would suffice in my opinion.
::I'm thinking maybe if it's okay with the staff around to make redirect for <code>List of Swedish/Icelandic/Spanish/Romanian/etc. Pokémon names</code> to this page.
::Otherwise, if you're interested, at least one Spanish and Italian name do actually differ from the English name, {{p|Type: Null}}. I've made list articles about which names I have found being used in other languages [[User:Raltseye/Template:Pokelist|here]].
::--[[User:Raltseye|Raltseye]] [[User talk:Raltseye|prata med mej]] 13:43, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

== Yamper and Impidimp ==

They're not on here for some reason? Can someone who can edit this page fix that?[[User:AztecCroc|AztecCroc]] ([[User talk:AztecCroc|talk]]) 13:33, 15 June 2019 (UTC)

== Aug 7 Trailer - New Pokémon ==

In the newest trailer, two new Pokémon (Obstagoon and Morpeko), as well as the Galarian forms of Weezing, Zigzagoon, and Linoone were revealed. I don't see them listed on this page yet, those Impidimp, which has still not been officially revealed is. [[User:CMP|CMP]] ([[User talk:CMP|talk]]) 18:46, 9 August 2019 (UTC)

== Missing ==

Currently, Galarian Meowth is missing from this list. [[User:MarioMiner|MarioMiner]] ([[User talk:MarioMiner|talk]]) 03:00, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

== Dex Shortcuts ==

Can we get the dex shortcuts removed or redirected correctly? They're just redirecting to the top of this page. [[User:Joe kik as|Joe kik as]] ([[User talk:Joe kik as|talk]]) 17:33, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
:That's the point of the shortcuts. They're just redirects of this article, and they're there for reference.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 04:32, 15 January 2020 (UTC)
::But why is it at the top of the page if it's just redirecting to the top. If anything it should redirect to different pages corresponding to those links. [[User:Joe kik as|Joe kik as]] ([[User talk:Joe kik as|talk]]) 16:32, 15 January 2020 (UTC)
:::I already said why, they're there for reference. To let users know which shortcut to type out in the search bar if they wanted to find this article easier (since typing out the entire title would be a hassle). The other dex listings also have shortcuts that lead to their respective articles.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 16:55, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

== Ndex as the first column ==

I think the Ndex number should probably be the first column. This is the main subject of this list.

The Ndex is currently the 2nd column, which seems like a secondary position. (even though in the case of the first 151 Pokémon, the numbers are the same) --[[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 10:14, 31 January 2020 (UTC)
:{{template|rdex}} is convenient. I don't think it's that big an issue to make another template just for this. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 03:23, 1 February 2020 (UTC)
::I'm with Daniel here. This is a list of Pokemon by National Pokedex number. Surely that should be the primary focus. --[[User:Celadonkey|celadonk]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 18:19, 1 February 2020 (UTC)
:::I could do the job of creating a new template and editing this page if this idea is accepted. It could be simply a new template based on {{template|rdex}} with reverse parameters. A possible name could be {{template|nrdex}} (since {{template|ndex}} is taken) .--[[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 00:50, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
::::The header is the only thing here that would need to be changed if this were to be done. --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 01:05, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
:::::Aside from that, we may also want to reverse the order of the numbers for each Pokémon in [[List of Pokémon by National Pokédex number]], to make the wikitext match the resulting page. I can do this if needed. --[[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 02:38, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

== Pokémon with different forms not present in the list ==

I don't understand the criteria for Pokémon with different forms, by the type of them:

Gender differences : We do not include the forms of Indeedee, Pyroar and Meowstic, But we allow Unfezant, Frillish and Jellycent?

Different permanent forms but with the same typing: Lycanrock and Toxtricity. But it allows other permanent forms, e.g. Shellos, Gastrodont and Basculin.

Different Forms and different types: Kyurem and Necruzma. But allows Castform, Rotom, Melloeta, Hoopa, Shaymin and Oricorio.

Different Battle forms but same types: Wishiwashi, Cherrim, Landorus, Thundurus, Tornadus, Kyurem, Keldeo, Greninja, Zygarde and Minior are not included. But Deoxis and Gyratina are on the list.

No applicable to the above criteria: Unown, Arceus, Deerling, Sawsbuck, Vivillon, The Flabébé Family and Furfrou. But we do have Burmy and Wormadam and Urshifu. (I understand that the Pokémon in this las criteria have a lot of forms, and that the reason of not their including is for space and order in the page)

Can some one please explain me the criteria for allowing the different forms selection?

--Neos 10:19, April 16 2020 (UTC)
:Yeah, it does seem rather arbitrary to me.

:I think I've mentioned this above but this page is a list of Pokemon by number first and foremost. Including forms at all, imo, muddles the numbering up, at least for me. --[[User:Celadonkey|celadonk]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 13:48, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

::I think we should take out the unnecessary forms --[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 00:36, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

== You forgot NDex# of Galarian Slowking ==

Force Fire: You added NDex numbers for Galarian forms of Slowbro & the Legendary Birds (even if no menu sprites exist for them yet), but you forgot Galarian Slowking:
<pre>{{rdex||???|Slowking|1|???}}</pre>
Given this page is protected, I cannot change the page myself; could you please provisionally change that line to:
<pre>{{rdex||199G|Slowking|1|???}}</pre>
‐⁠‑''[[User:SilSinn9801|SilSinn]]'' ([[TID]]s: '''768426[[Pokémon Sun|S]]''', '''123446[[Pokémon Ultra Moon|UM]]''') [[User talk:SilSinn9801|💬]] 17:01, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
:Fixed --[[User:Spriteit|Spriteit]] ([[User talk:Spriteit|talk]]) 01:21, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
::This page needs to be edited as Galarian Slowking's type was confirmed to be Poison/Psychic like Galarian Slowbro was. [[User:Kangaflora|Kangaflora]] ([[User talk:Kangaflora|talk]]) 19:01, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

== 891-893 ==

Pokemon Home's Pokedex , after this morning's patch, seems to confirm that Kubfu, Urshifu, and Zarude are numbers 891, 892, and 893 respectively. That is all. Sorry if this text is really big for some reason.{{unsigned|Zigzagoon97}}

== (Understandable) Style Inconsistencies ==

To be consistent with the style of the page before the Crown Tundra was released, only Calyrex's base form should be present, as neither Kyurem (which, admittedly, does not change type) nor Necrozma (which does change type, and thus should be treated exactly the same way as Calyrex) have their fusion forms present on this list. Alternatively, including Necrozma's forms, and possibly Kyurem's forms, would solve this issue. [[User:MarioMiner|MarioMiner]] ([[User talk:MarioMiner|talk]]) 22:58, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
:Another style inconsistency - in the Generation IV section of the page, Heatran, Regigigas, Cresselia, Phione, Darkrai, Shaymin, and Arceus, the Gen IV Pokémon without Sinnoh Pokédex numbers, have their portions of the "Sdex" column blank. However, Meltan, Melmetal, Kubfu, Urshifu, Zarude, Regieleki, Regidrago, Glastrier, Spectrier, and Calyrex, all Pokémon that do not appear in their respective generations' regional Pokédexes, have "#---" in their regional Pokédex (Adex for Meltan and Melmetal, Gdex for the rest) columns. [[User:MarioMiner|MarioMiner]] ([[User talk:MarioMiner|talk]]) 00:06, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

== Zygarde's Forms ==
Zygard seems to be the only Pokémon currently missing alternate forms.
[[User:RomajiMiltonAmulo|RomajiMiltonAmulo]] ([[User talk:RomajiMiltonAmulo|talk]]) 01:45, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

== Legends: Arceus Pokémon ==

Are the Pokémon and Regional Forms that were shown in the new [[Pokémon Legends: Arceus]] trailer going to be added now or when the game releases? -[[User:Ratboy Jr.|Ratboy Jr.]] ([[User talk:Ratboy Jr.|talk]]) 22:40, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

== Mega Aerodactyl needs to be added. ==

A couple Megas were forgotten to be added. Could you please scout through and add them? {{unsigned|Necrozma800}}
:They are left out for a reason, Mega Evolutions are not completely new species, they are a transformed state of the same base species.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 07:06, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

== Legends arceus pokemon ==

We need numbers for Basculegion, wyrdeer, Kleavor, we need these pokemon added Overqwil, Enamorus, Ursaluna, and Sneasler. Dex numbers (national) are : 899 is Wyrdeer 900 is Kleavor 901 is Ursaluna 902 is Basculegion 903 is Sneasler 904 is Overqwil, 905 is Enamorus, so yeah [[User:ItsRobloxHere|ItsRobloxHere]] ([[User talk:ItsRobloxHere|talk]]) 00:24, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

== H.Goodra's typing ==

it should be Steel/Dragon, not Dragon/Steel.
[[User:Anzasquiddles|Anzasquiddles]] ([[User talk:Anzasquiddles|talk]]) 05:56, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

== Hisuian Braviary's MSP, and Origin Formes for Dialga and Palkia ==

Well, the second point is more of a question. I see there's plenty of contention on the matter of form-inclusion, but Giratina's Origin Forme is on the list so I thought I'd mention it.
[[User:Pichugetic|Pichugetic]] ([[User talk:Pichugetic|talk]]) 01:06, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

: Oh, just noticed: also Hisuian Avalugg. [[User:Pichugetic|Pichugetic]] ([[User talk:Pichugetic|talk]]) 07:31, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

== Unfezant, Frillish and Jellycent: only one entry per Pokémon? ==

For the majority of Pokémon, only the male appearence is shown. However, it does not apply for Shellos, Gastrodon, Unfezant, Frillish and Jellycent. Shellos and Gastrodon are region-based in several (all?) games, so displaying both appearances is justified, but it does not apply for Unfezant, Frillish and Jellycent. So is there something special about those 3 Pokémon that grants 2 entries for each of them in the list? [[User:Y2110|Y2110]] ([[User talk:Y2110|talk]]) 11:42, 21 May 2022 (UTC)

EDIT: Oh, it has already been discussed on this page. My bad

== 3D Sprites ==
[[File:001MS8.png|thumb|right|68px|SwSh Bulbasaur (68px)]]
[[File:902MS.png|thumb|right|68px|PLA Basculegion (68px)]]
[[File:HOME001.png|thumb|right|60px|HOME Bulbasaur (60px)]]
[[File:HOME902.png|thumb|right|60px|HOME Basculegion (60px)]]

Why have the 2D sprites been changed to the 3D Pokemon Home ones? The 3D sprites mesh horribly with the tables and lists, take up too much space, and have too much color and detail making it hard to focus on anything but the sprites themselves. I can understand wanting to upgrade but sometimes less is more especially for someone who has sensitive eyes or ADHD. There could at least be an option to select whether you what to view 2D or 3D sprites.[[User:Strawhatroger|Strawhatroger]] ([[User talk:Strawhatroger|talk]]) 16:57, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
:It's a necessity. We already had too much inconsistency between sprites from SwSh, LGPE, PLA and older ones, soon we'll get another ones for SV which would make it even worse. Fortunately HOME sprite are very consistent and exist for alternate forms. They don't take more space because previously we already had big 68px squares.--'''[[User:Team Rocket Grunt|Rocket]] [[User talk:Team Rocket Grunt|Grunt]]''' 17:34, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

The HOME sprites pop out way too much and are too bright hurting my eyes making it very difficult to do thing like look at lists without straining my eyes.[[User:Strawhatroger|Strawhatroger]] ([[User talk:Strawhatroger|talk]]) 17:55, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

::I've added some Bulbasaur and Basculegion image examples at the top of this discussion now.
::As TRG was saying, the list with 2D sprites was using inconsistent styles (including 2D sprites from SwSh like that Bulbasaur, and 3D face portraits from PLA like that Basculegion). We may have 2D sprites for most of the currently available Pokémon, but not all of them.
::Since you mentioned the size, let me point out that those 2D sprites typically were 68px images with white space around the Pokémon (a lot of white space in my opinion). I've changed them to those 3D images with 60px size, so they are occupying less space than before.
::For instance, it seems there are at least 1,000 lines on these tables, so the page should be approximately 8,000 pixels shorter than before with the current 3D sprites.
::Although to be fair, the image size can be changed in the template so it could become smaller or larger if needed. If anyone thinks that the 2D sprites with a lot of whitespace around looked good, it's also possible to add whitespace around the 3D images (without needing to edit the images). --[[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 18:43, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

:::Did someone reverted the 3D sprites? now they are back to the 2D ones.
:::I really support the idea of using the HOME menu sprites for this page and for what I have seen in the latest SV trailers the classic Menu minisprites are now gone. So by using as the source of sprites HOME we will be sure that's there will be a unify menu art style. --[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 21:57, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

::::Yes. The change was reverted back to the 2D sprites, pending further discussion. Sorry for the trouble. --[[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 23:01, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

Finally! Someone who actually listens to other people's opinions and uses common sense. I've looked at any trailer and screenshot of SV I could find and if anything it looks like 2D sprites will be returning, and if it really comes down to it perhaps we can just use the official artwork since it's easier on the eyes.[[User:Strawhatroger|Strawhatroger]] ([[User talk:Strawhatroger|talk]]) 05:02, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

==Urshifu and Female Pokémon==

Since the two forms of Urshifu shared a menusprite, the Home art for Rapid Strike style Urshifu will have to be added manually globally. I don't think there is another Pokémon with this issue. Female Pokémon such as Unfezant, Jellicent, etc. will also have to be added manually. And since they are included, the female forms of Meowstic, Indeedee, Basculegion and Pyroar should have their own entries as well. Or none of them should. Just make it consistent. Necrozma is also missing its forms, even though they change type. '''[[User:Oneofthosedf|Oneofthosedf]] [[User talk:Oneofthosedf|(talk)]] [[Special:Contributions/Oneofthosedf|(contribs)]]''' 18:00, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
:I'm wondering if we should change female forms manually or the HOME images could be renamed. I'm fine with both, but I'd like to know what to do.--'''[[User:Team Rocket Grunt|Rocket]] [[User talk:Team Rocket Grunt|Grunt]]''' 19:02, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

::Yeah, I'm adding the Urshifu sprite to move pages, but I'll wait with Indeedee and Meowstic, as a simple redirect would solve those issues as opposed to Urshifu. '''[[User:Oneofthosedf|Oneofthosedf]] [[User talk:Oneofthosedf|(talk)]] [[Special:Contributions/Oneofthosedf|(contribs)]]''' 19:46, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

== Forms of Pokémon that should be added into this list ==

I know that I spoke about this more that two years ago, but there are a lot of inconsistencies in the list regarding which Pokémon forms get to be in this list and which don't, I get that Gigantamax and Mega's aren't allowed in this list, but there are Pokémon that have very different forms ranging from Gender, alternative and even different learnset's, and I think that they should be added into the list as well because there are pokemon that share the exact situation has the ones that I'm going to propose that are already on the list.

Candidates for inclusion on the list based in multiple criteria:

By gender extreme differences:

Indeedee Female

Pyroar Female

Meowstic Female

Basculegion Female

(Pokémon subject to this criteria that are already present on the list with Male and Female forms are: Unfezant, Frillish and Jellycent)

Pokemon with special forms that can't be changed:

Lycanrock Midnight form

Lycanrock Dusk form

Toxtricity Low Key form

Sandy Cloak Wormadam

Trash Cloak Wormadam

(Pokémon subject to this criteria that have different forms already present on the list are: Shellos, Gastrodont, Basculin and Urshifu)

Diferent Fusions with different Types:

White Kyurem

Black Kyurem

Dusk Mane Necrozma

Dawn Wings Necrozma

Ultra Necrozma

Pokemon with the capability of change between forms upon different scenarios:

Wishiwashi School form

Cherrim Sunshine form

Landorus Therian form

Thundurus Therian form

Tornadus Therian form

Enamorus Therian form

Keldeo Resolute form

Zygarde 10% form

Zygarde 100% form

(Pokémon subject to this criteria that have different forms already present on the list are: Castform, Rotom, Melloeta, Hoopa, Shaymin, Oricorio, Deoxis, Dialga, Palkia and Gyratina)

Please consider adding the proposed forms listed above, or consider delisting the Pokémon forms that are already present in parentheses at the end of each category, since if the Pokémons requested to be added are not added personally I don't see a justified reason to keep the extra forms that are present at the moment.

--[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 18:23, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

Also this should be more easy now that we have the Pokémon HOME models for this list --[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 18:28, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

:Being as long as it is, I think adding on to the list uneccessarily unless its a non-battle form change that changes the user's type. That being said, there are some forms missing that can be added, and I agree that some of the listings, like the gender differences, are superfluous. - [[User:Chosen|Chosen]] ([[User talk:Chosen|Talk]]) 01:11, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

{{indent}}These and many forms have (mostly) been added. You can see [[User:Tiddlywinks/List of Pokémon by National Pokédex number|here]] a list of forms that were not included (as of pre-SV). Generally, forms for abandoned mechanics (like Megas) are excluded.

These details could change with discussion. I know that all forms are pretty much in HOME, which may argue for adding Megas and such. (If we do do that, I feel like we should throw in Spiky-eared Pichu and other non-HOME forms too.) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 06:10, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

:If I may make suggestions, I think that form names could be split into new lines with <nowiki> </nowiki>tag like it is done on many pages already. How about adding generation number to each Pokémon so new people would know they can't have Alolan Pokemon in games like FRLG despite existing in LGPE? What about slight cellpadding so these files won't look so squeezed? Also, there's a small mistake with Cramorant's type and tables aren't curved at the bottom.--'''[[User:Team Rocket Grunt|Rocket]] [[User talk:Team Rocket Grunt|Grunt]]''' 08:10, 8 November 2022 (UTC)
::Personally, I'm not all about line breaks. IDK about anyone else, but at times I'll just copy a column/table straight from the page, and line breaks mess with that. (And comparing, say, the type pages, I'm not wowed by the difference in presentation. I could even argue that this format is better.)
::I did actually consider adding a column for game introduced, but I didn't get any feedback about that idea and didn't quite feel like mocking it up, so that part is completely untested.
::If you want to suggest what you think looks good for padding, I can see. But IMO it's "fine" for now. /shrug
::Roundy is about the last thing I'm worried about honestly. If I work on the list again, I may see about it. (It's definitely not worth adding some condition to the templates.) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 22:18, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

==Eternal Floette==

Not included on this page (should be) and all it had was the menusprite. It will need a redirect. Probably [[File:AZ's Floette.png|90px]] will do. '''[[User:Oneofthosedf|Oneofthosedf]] [[User talk:Oneofthosedf|(talk)]] [[Special:Contributions/Oneofthosedf|(contribs)]]''' 19:46, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

== Pokedex Arts ==

I really like that we change the classic 2D menusprites for the 2D Sugimori art for each Pokémon, since not all of them have menusprites and it most certain that in the future the old menusprites will not be used in games, we need to have a consistent art style.--[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 15:35, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

:Couldn't agree more, thank you guys for finally making this happen. Looks awesome. '''[[User:Oneofthosedf|Oneofthosedf]] [[User talk:Oneofthosedf|(talk)]] [[Special:Contributions/Oneofthosedf|(contribs)]]''' 22:42, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

I see that most forms have been cleaned up, but Basculin has only 2 of its 33 forms in the list.--[[User:Jor1ss|Jor1ss]] ([[User talk:Jor1ss|talk]]) 14:45, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
I obviously meant 3 and not 33 but it won't let me change it without signing it again.--[[User:Jor1ss|Jor1ss]] ([[User talk:Jor1ss|talk]]) 14:47, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
== Isle of Armor, Crown Tundra, Hisui, and Paldea dex numbers ==
* Hello, I'd like to request addition of Pokédex numbers for the Isle of Armor, Crown Tundra, and Hisui Pokémon. Just use the sup|Isle of Armor and sup|Crown Tundra for the IoA/CT Pokémon, add an LADex column for Hisui Pokémon.
Also, we have a few Paldea Pokédex numbers, they are: Sprigatito #001, Fuecoco #004, Quaxly #007, Lechonk #010, Pawmi #022, Fidough #076. Thanks, [[User:PinkYoshiGaming|PinkYoshiGaming]] ([[User talk:PinkYoshiGaming|talk]]) 17:26, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

== Cramorant's type ==

Cramorant's types are maldisplayed on gen 8 table. The article is locked so I hope this could be fixed soon. [[User:Saphir|Saphir]] ([[User talk:Saphir|talk]]) 12:27, 8 November 2022 (UTC)
:Thanks for pointing it out. (Also TRG.) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 22:21, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

== Gen 9 Dex numbers are largely incorrect ==

The numbers here are their index number in the data, not their National Dex numbers which we don't actually know yet and while that's fine, we need to let people know that.--[[User:Nintenfreak|Nintenfreak]] ([[User talk:Nintenfreak|talk]]) 00:52, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

::I think the Chinese-language wiki has the intended National Dex numbers on the pages of each individual Pokemon, but if there's no way to conform the numbers 100% they should be reverted to "#???" but ordered using their numbers in the Paldea Pokedex. [[User:Superjustinbros.|Superjustinbros.]] ([[User talk:Superjustinbros.|talk]]) 01:17, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
:::Did the hard work:

::::What seem to be the intended Dex numbers for the Paldea Pokemon were added in the first patch which came out on launch day, maybe that could be used as the basis for the national Dex numbers since they're all put in a more proper order? [[User:Superjustinbros.|Superjustinbros.]] ([[User talk:Superjustinbros.|talk]]) 03:35, 20 November 2022 (UTC)

Number 980 and 987 are missing from the list. Is that an error or have they just not been revealed yet? --[[User:DudeGuy|DudeGuy]] ([[User talk:DudeGuy|talk]]) 02:57, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
::They are dummied out Pokémon not in the base game but should be added with updates, which is why I suspect this isn't the actual National Dex number. It's more likely this is the internal index number. You can see sketches of what these Pokémon will look like while playing the game.--[[User:Nintenfreak|Nintenfreak]] ([[User talk:Nintenfreak|talk]]) 03:37, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
:Just confirming this, some TCG products were revealed. Pawmi is #0921 and Smoliv is #0928, which means it's not EXACTLY in the order they appear in the game since it looks like Clodsire probably got moved to be with the other evolutions of old Pokémon.--[[User:Nintenfreak|Nintenfreak]] ([[User talk:Nintenfreak|talk]]) 09:25, 7 December 2022 (UTC)

Also gholdengo is #1000 and gimmighoul #999 but I can’t update it [[User:RogueAngel7272|RogueAngel7272]] ([[User talk:RogueAngel7272|talk]]) 20:05, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

==Notes==

Meadow Vivillon is listed as the Polar Pattern, Paldean Tauros are missing, and I get why Arceus has "Arceus" under its name, but it's really redundant. If the Deerling and Cramorant forms are listed separately, then Ash-Greninja and Eternal Floette should also be listed. '''[[User:Oneofthosedf|Oneofthosedf]] [[User talk:Oneofthosedf|(talk)]] [[Special:Contributions/Oneofthosedf|(contribs)]]''' 00:14, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
:The page explicitly lists form names like HOME does.
:I made the decision to only include Pokemon that aren't part of an obsolete mechanic like Megas. To me that includes Ash-Greninja and Floette. There hasn't been much discussion about if that's best. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 03:19, 6 December 2022 (UTC)

==Paldean Tauros==

Just wanted to note that Paldean Tauros' type is wrong, and that all breeds should be listed as they have different types. [[User:Petrichor|Petrichor]] ([[User talk:Petrichor|talk]]) 18:04, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

== hey ==

the official artworks for all Gen 9 Pokemon are arriving!
[[User:WASPED 302168|WASPED 302168]] ([[User talk:WASPED 302168|talk]]) 14:52, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

I have a question, how much time is often need after the games official release and the full release of the official arts for every Pokémon???
2, 3 or 4 months???
[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 17:35, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
:If I remember correctly, last time it was 20 days, so it would be expected in 5. I think [https://zukan.pokemon.co.jp/?sort_type=2 this was the site] that published them first.--'''[[User:Team Rocket Grunt|Rocket]] [[User talk:Team Rocket Grunt|Grunt]]''' 17:48, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

== National Pokédex Number for Paldean Pokémon ==

Apparently the National Pokédex Number for Paldean Pokémon has been revealed. https://twitter.com/JoeMerrick/status/1600515136070057986
Should we go ahead and change the order, or do we wait for now? [[User:Harryghost|Harryghost]] ([[User talk:Harryghost|talk]]) 16:08, 7 December 2022 (UTC)
:I would wait for something official.--'''[[User:Team Rocket Grunt|Rocket]] [[User talk:Team Rocket Grunt|Grunt]]''' 22:37, 7 December 2022 (UTC)
::That would mean waiting for Pokémon Home to update. I think it would be more prudent to go ahead and work with the datamined numbers and if we need to change them later, change them later. Simple as.--[[User:Nintenfreak|Nintenfreak]] ([[User talk:Nintenfreak|talk]]) 03:20, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
::: We're waiting for the TCG cards to be properly revealed before adding the numbers of the relevant Pokemon(so, not all of them).--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 05:18, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

:::: It's inaccurate to state on the page that the numbers haven't been datamined yet. —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 00:19, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
:::::...It doesn't say 'datamined'. It says 'determined'. Which they haven't been. [[User:ArcToraphim|Kai]] * the [[User talk:ArcToraphim|Arc]] [[Special:Contributions/ArcToraphim|Toraph]] 14:52, 11 December 2022 (UTC)

::::At the very least, the current situation is causing problems for templates that expect Pokémon sprites to be labeled by their National Dex number rather than by name (such as the "trainerlist" set used on Trainer class pages), so something ought to be done about that sooner rather than (months) later. (And anyways, if we're being pedantic, datamined info is already in use in plenty of places around the site, so I don't see why this data is any less kosher?) [[User:Zyxyz|Zyxyz]] ([[User talk:Zyxyz|talk]]) 12:06, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

== Why can't I edit the page? ==

I've confirmed my email address, but the option to edit isn't appearing for me. Is there a reason for that that I'm not aware of? Also, I am able to edit other pages, this is the only I've seen so far that I can't. --[[User:Greenninja22|Greenninja22]] ([[User talk:Greenninja22|talk]]) 22:25, 14 December 2022 (UTC)
:I'm guessing you've just joined Bulbapedia, you're not autoconfirmed so can't edit straight away, it is also possible the page is protected so that either only admin can edit the page or new members can't--[[User:BigDocFan|BigDocFan]], Junior Admin Bulbapedia ([[User talk:BigDocFan|talk]]) 22:31, 14 December 2022 (UTC)
::This specific page is protected and only admins can edit it.--'''[[User:Team Rocket Grunt|Rocket]] [[User talk:Team Rocket Grunt|Grunt]]''' 22:33, 14 December 2022 (UTC)

== Gen IX ==

Add paldean to the list of regions at the start of the article [[User:Gliscor8|Gliscor8]] ([[User talk:Gliscor8|talk]]) 02:42, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

Paldea [[User:Gliscor8|Gliscor8]] ([[User talk:Gliscor8|talk]]) 02:43, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

== Official Gen IX Order (?) ==

https://youtu.be/pa08Y-fhfTI

Pokémon recently uploaded this commemorating each Mon, and at the end they seem to reveal the official order of the Paldean Dex. The numbers of some do correspond with the teased TCG Dex numbers of certain Paldean Mons. It might be safe to fill in the rest of the Dex now.

[[User:Setralystic|Setralystic]] ([[User talk:Setralystic|talk]]) 14:33, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

I agree with the orden present in the vido has well, even in the video and in the official site for Pokémon Scarlet and Violet states that Gholdengo is the 1000th pokemon, the order shown must be the official one. --[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 15:57, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

== Official Artwork ==

Add official Artwork for all paldean pokemon [[User:Gliscor8|Gliscor8]] ([[User talk:Gliscor8|talk]]) 00:32, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

*Not all of the artwork has been revealed yet. Yes, there's some leaked artwork but again, not all of that has been revealed.
[[User:Setralystic|Setralystic]] ([[User talk:Setralystic|talk]]) 01:52, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

== Zero-Padding for Numbers ==

Since there are now over 1000 Pokémon, both the official Japanese Pokédex page and the TCG are adding an extra zero to the beginning of existing Dex numbers below 906 (Bulbasaur is already listed as "#0001" on the official website, etc. - going up from there). I feel like implementing this change site-wide would take quite some time, as the three-digit numbers are used on at least a thousand pages across the site, but this might be the best place to start with that. Thoughts? [[User:Mudkip0258|Mudkip0258]] ([[User talk:Mudkip0258|talk]]) 15:18, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
:That's just inevitable.--'''[[User:Team Rocket Grunt|Rocket]] [[User talk:Team Rocket Grunt|Grunt]]''' 15:28, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
::We have a bot for stuff like that, we just need to get images and templates sorted before running it. [[User:Glik|glik]][[User talk:Glik|glak]] 15:31, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

== Forms of Gen IX Pokémon missing from the list ==

I think that we should add in to the list the forms of Maushold Family of Three, Dudunsparce Three-Segment form and for Squawkabilly the blue, white and yellow Plumage forms, since there are other Pokémon with multiple and even grater number of forms represented in this list even if they do not posees 2D artwork, even in the Pokémon official site this forms are represented with 3D in game models from Scarlet and Violet. --[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 20:19, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

== Images ==

To me it looks like the first 3 Pokémon of the Ruinous quartet are using the old leaked images instead of the revealed art. Chi-Yu seems to be updated.
I would show an image but... (nvm i didnt refresh my page)
[[User:Setralystic|Setralystic]] ([[User talk:Setralystic|talk]]) 01:18, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

== Gen 9 Starter Evos Official Artwork ==

Even though their artwork has been officially released and their individual pages use them, this page still doesn't have them. Can someone fix that? --[[User:Greenninja22|Greenninja22]] ([[User talk:Greenninja22|talk]]) 17:28, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
:Server needs to refresh.--'''[[User:Team Rocket Grunt|Rocket]] [[User talk:Team Rocket Grunt|Grunt]]''' 18:50, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

== DLC ==

Add the revealed Pokemon from the presentation (I know we don't know much about them yet)

Δ✓δ↔ {{unsigned|Gliscor8}}

== Unrevealed №s ==

The SV DLC Pokémon whose numbers have yet to be revealed should have #???? in the table rather than #0000. This would more accurately reflect that their numbers are yet to be revealed. Here's a table for comparion:
{{ndexh|Scarlet|Violet}}
{{ndex|0000|Ogerpon|Unknown}}
{{ndex|????|Ogerpon|Unknown}}
|}
This seems to break the images in the table. However, the images only work using #0000 because redirects from File:0000Species.png to File:Species.png have been created. Adding an #ifeq to the template would allow the images to work again, this time without using file redirects. This would also eliminate the need to create file redirects for this purpose in the future. Here's an example where I've replaced the second line with [[User:Kauli/Template:Ndex|a modified version of the template]]:
{{ndexh|Scarlet|Violet}}
{{ndex|0000|Ogerpon|Unknown}}
{{User:Kauli/Template:Ndex|????|Ogerpon}}
|}
I understand this is a pretty small issue at the moment, but eliminating the need to create file redirects in the future would be nice. A modified version of [[Template:Ndex]] that would make this change possible can be found at [[User:Kauli/Template:Ndex]]. ‒[[User:Kauli|Kᴀᴜʟɪ]] 〔[[User talk:Kauli|Tᴀʟᴋ]][[Special:NewSection/User talk:Kauli|+]]〕 13:13, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

== Ursaluna (Bloodmoon form) ==

I think we should add Ursaluna's Bloodmoon form to the list since its an unique form of Ursaluna that without triggering a transformation gets itself differentiated from the original form, not only in stats but also in artwork and in move set, like other Pokémon with multiple forms that are on this list. --[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 14:34, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

Talk:Pokémon GO

2023-08-03T23:31:33Z

Neos: /* Routes */

== Generation confirmed? ==

The article's infobox states that the game is part of Generation VI. Has this actually been confirmed? I would have thought now that it's more likely this game will be part of Generation VII. If the information is not confirmed, can we just remove it? [[User:Kidburla|Kidburla]] ([[User talk:Kidburla|talk]]) 21:17, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

== 2015/2016 confusion ==
"....held by Niantic CEO John Hanke on March 14, 2015, but was later cancelled..."

Isn't "2015" supposed to be 2016? [[User:Chaossy|Chaossy]] ([[User talk:Chaossy|talk]]) 20:22, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
: Slightly late, but you are correct. Hopefully someone should fix it soon with more eyes on the page. --[[User:Super goku|Super goku]] ([[User talk:Super goku|talk]]) 16:01, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

== Pokémon Go Plus ==

This is confirmed to be $34.99 and may be released in late July (they will try for that). [[User:Kurt22|Kurt22]] ([[User talk:Kurt22|talk]]) 22:25, 15 June 2016 (UTC)

== Coin Prize Euros ==

The coin prizes are:

€ 0,99 for 100
€ 4,99 for 550
€ 9,99 for 1200
€ 19,99 for 2500
€ 39,99 for 5200
€ 99,99 for 14500

[[User:Bigtukker|Bigtukker]] ([[User talk:Bigtukker|talk]]) 15:57, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

== Size and weight ==

Unlike core series, it's not fixed. Pokémon can be lighter/heavier and/or smaller/taller than the usual norm. For example, I have seen a picture of 0.65m/4.8kg Raticate (marked with XS for weight). [[User:Eridanus|Eridanus]] ([[User talk:Eridanus|talk]]) 12:55, 7 July 2016 (UTC)

== Pikachu can be caught as starter Pokémon ==
As seen in this picture a player can get pikachu by walking away from the other three https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cm3wRieW8AA0cgM.jpg:large [[User:Veilor|Veilor]] ([[User talk:Veilor|talk]]) 22:39, 8 July 2016 (UTC)

== Eeveelutions ==

The article currently says that eevee evolves based on its moves but that doesn't seem to be the case based on the data being compiled [https://www.reddit.com/r/pokemongo/comments/4s135q/lets_test_how_the_eeveelution_system_works/ here] {{unsigned|Spexile}}
:I read the post and thought I maybe understood what it wanted, but then I looked at the data spreadsheet and it pretty much stopped making all sense to me... The only thing I can understand from it is that, yes, it does appear Eevee's evolution criteria is not just the move it knows. Beyond that, I don't know it'll even be ''possible'' to draw any conclusions from that spreadsheet. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 23:24, 9 July 2016 (UTC)

== Regarding Available Pokemon and Items ==

Item list should be updated to include the disposable incubators. This user has found them at PokeStops with capability to incubate up to 3 eggs in total, one at a time. Possibility of stronger incubators?

Also, current PokeDex is listing user's owned pokemon out of available 250. While there have been little to no reports on Generation II Pokemon being seen or caught, it should be noted that the game is listing them as a possibility, likely at higher trainer levels. {{unsigned|Carson3000}}
:You may want to double-check, are you really looking in the Pokedex (like [https://support.pokemongo.nianticlabs.com/hc/en-us/articles/221958028-Viewing-the-Pok%C3%A9dex here]) when you see something like "X/250", or are you actually looking at just the Pokemon collection? [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 06:13, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
:(edit conflict; sorry) I don't think the 250 capacity is (necessarily) any indication of Gen 2 Pokemon in the works. It's much more plausible, given the game mechanics, that the developers wanted to give people enough capacity to own more than one of each species. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 06:15, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
::You can also purchase a Pokémon Storage Upgrade for 200 PokéCoins, so I really don't think this is a good argument. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 07:47, 11 July 2016 (UTC)

== Eevee evolution ==

People suggest that it depends on its special move; Body Slam is Jolteon; Swift is Vaporeon and Dig is Flareon. Unfortunately, I cannot test that. [[User:Eridanus|Eridanus]] ([[User talk:Eridanus|talk]]) 08:19, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
:See [[#Eeveelutions]] above. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 08:25, 11 July 2016 (UTC)

== Team Descriptions ==

I would if I could... but the descriptions of each team/faction should be listed under the [[Pokémon GO#Teams]] header.

Here they are:

;Instinct (Yellow)

''"Hey! The name's Spark -- the leader of Team Instinct. Pokemon are creatures with excellent intuition. I bet the secret to their intuition is related to how they're hatched. Come and join my team! You never lose when you trust your instincts!"''

;Mystic (Blue)

''"I am Blanche, leader of Team Mystic. The wisdom of Pokemon is immeasurably deep. I am researching why it is that they evolve. With our calm analysis of every situation, we can't lose!"''

;Valor (Red)

''"I'm Candela -- Team Valor's leader! Pokemon are stronger than humans, and they're warmhearted, too! I'm researching ways to enhance Pokemon's natural power in the pursuit of true strength. There's no doubt that the Pokemon our team have trained at the strongest in battle! Are you ready?"''

- Thanks, [[User:Rmkane|Rmkane]] ([[User talk:Rmkane|talk]]) 15:32, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
:added!--[[User:PannenkoekenNL|PannenkoekenNL]] ([[User talk:PannenkoekenNL|talk]]) 20:06, 11 July 2016 (UTC)

In the opening description about the teams, I think it would be good to mention that they are Professor Willow's research teams, each specializing in a certain area of Pokemon study. Usually, "team" in Pokemon refers to an organization/gang, so I feel it's something worth explaining for clarification. --[[User:Shinobi|Shinobi]] ([[User talk:Shinobi|talk]]) 03:56, 17 July 2016 (UTC)

== Add pictures of items ==
Could someone add the missing pictures of items, I don't have the permissions to do so. They can be found here: https://imgur.com/a/XNJOA --[[User:PannenkoekenNL|PannenkoekenNL]] ([[User talk:PannenkoekenNL|talk]]) 07:56, 12 July 2016 (UTC)

== Official Glossary Images ==

The official [https://support.pokemongo.nianticlabs.com/hc/en-us/articles/222049307-Glossary Pokémon Go glossary] has some images that are missing: http://imgur.com/a/bT3Cs Although, some of the images are not transparent... I don't know why, but wouldn't the official site have better images?

-- [[User:Rmkane|Rmkane]] ([[User talk:Rmkane|talk]]) 14:25, 12 July 2016 (UTC)

== Combat Point calculation ==

In regards to combat points, or CP, [http://pokestomped.com/2016/07/11/on-pokemon-evolution-and-powerup/ research] and a [http://pokestomped.com/2016/07/11/on-pokemon-evolution-and-powerup/#comment-3 theory I'm developing] will allow us to start quantifying the game much better. We should soon have modifiers for each Pokémon in the game, but we will likely have to do our own research, which will be difficult since randomness is implemented in the calculations. I don't think I can gather much data with my location, but I'd love to crunch numbers if anyone else wants to do a bunch of powerups on each species. Let me know what you guys think. {{unsigned|PlatypusVenom}}

== Missing Key Item Images ==

In regards to the '''[[Pokémon GO#Key_Items|'Key Items' table]]''':

{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Name
! Image
! Location
! Dimensions
|-
| Camera
| File:GO_Camera
| style="text-align:center;" | http://i.imgur.com/MySrPFv.png
| style="text-align:center;" | 98 x 98
|-
| Egg Incubator ∞
| File:GO_Incubator_∞
| style="text-align:center;" | http://i.imgur.com/AWS4U2I.png
| style="text-align:center;" | 118 x 118
|}

If anyone can find better quality/resolution images, direct them here. Could someone upload these since I do not have the authority, because I have yet to meet the requirements to do so. -- [[User:Rmkane|Rmkane]] ([[User talk:Rmkane|talk]]) 12:57, 13 July 2016 (UTC)
:Thanks, I've uploaded these. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 13:03, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

== NA release date? ==

I don't get this, was Pokémon GO release in USA at the same time as Canada or is it not released there at all? Or was it released in USA at the 6 July and later in Canada? This is confusing because it said USA only on the page at first but then the USA only was removed. Was that because it was released in Canada or what? --[[User:Raltseye|Raltseye]] [[User talk:Raltseye|prata med mej]] 13:17, 13 July 2016 (UTC)
:For consistency with other pages, the infobox lists the date of first availability within each region. The detailed, country-by-country breakdown is better served by prose than by the infobox. --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 13:58, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

== Mystic Emblem is Wrong ==

The colors and the bottom of the hexagon are incorrect. Along with other things such as the curves of the feathers.

Here is a high quality version that uses the correct colors and hexagon: http://imgur.com/QCo3SFa

It is exported at 1,200 x 1,200 just like the other team's emblems. If you require the SVG, just leave a message on my [[User talk:Rmkane|talk page]].

;References
* The source of the image was derived from here: '''[https://www.reddit.com/r/PokemonGoMystic/comments/4sldnz /r/PokemonGoMystic :: This is a public service announcement. This PNG is the correct shape, please don't waste your money on shirts with the wrong shape!]'''
* Other vectors can be found here: '''[https://www.reddit.com/r/pokemongo/comments/4s6oti /r/PokemonGO :: Pokémon GO Team Vector Logos]'''
* In-game screen showing emblem: http://imgur.com/67uZlVS

-- Thanks, [[User:Rmkane|Rmkane]] ([[User talk:Rmkane|talk]]) 05:15, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

-- [[User:Rmkane|Rmkane]] ([[User talk:Rmkane|talk]]) 05:22, 14 July 2016 (UTC) (Need this, cause the reminder tells me that it's required…
:Thanks, I've uploaded it. Checking the others against screenshots, Valor appears to have the wrong colors (the ring should be light red) and Instinct appears to have incorrect transparency (the beak is white). --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 05:34, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

I went ahead and exported all the vectors from the second reference above: http://imgur.com/a/yZs6P If you notice, in the current Instinct emblem, the [[Zapdos|Zapdos']] points on its head are non-symmetrical. You will also see the color correction for the ring around the [[Moltres]].

-- Thanks, [[User:Rmkane|Rmkane]] ([[User talk:Rmkane|talk]]) 10:35, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

== Cached Images ==

Since I cannot edit the main article, can someone change the size of the thumbnails of the team emblems? Right now, they are cached (on the CDN server) as the out-of date; [http://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/thumb/f/f4/Team_Mystic_emblem.png/50px-Team_Mystic_emblem.png fan-art versions at 50px]. They are an eyesore, and I think that a more standard resolution of 48px or 64px would be more appropriate.

-- Thanks, [[User:Rmkane|Rmkane]] ([[User talk:Rmkane|talk]]) 14:55, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
-- [[User:Rmkane|Rmkane]] ([[User talk:Rmkane|talk]]) 14:56, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

Can someone please update the cached images for the teams? The fan-art logos should not be appearing anymore. Updating the size of the images should create a new cached thumbnail. Thanks, [[User:Rmkane|Rmkane]] ([[User talk:Rmkane|talk]]) 18:21, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
:The latest versions are showing up for me. Try purging your browser cache. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 05:11, 18 July 2016 (UTC)

Well, I have tried four different browsers, and they are still using the incorrect thumbnail. This is not a browser cache issue. The CDN does not know that the image has been updated.

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center;"
!
! Team_Instinct_emblem.png
! Team_Mystic_emblem.png
! Team_Valor_emblem.png
|-
| What is Displayed (cached at 50px)
| http://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/thumb/0/06/Team_Instinct_emblem.png/50px-Team_Instinct_emblem.png
| http://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/thumb/f/f4/Team_Mystic_emblem.png/50px-Team_Mystic_emblem.png
| http://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/thumb/e/e9/Team_Valor_emblem.png/50px-Team_Valor_emblem.png
|-
| What Should be Displayed (48px or any other suitable size)
| [[File:Team_Instinct_emblem.png|48px]]
| [[File:Team_Mystic_emblem.png|48px]]
| [[File:Team_Valor_emblem.png|48px]]
|}

These are direct links to the images that are stored on the site's server. Could someone just adjust the size of the image to 48px? -- [[User:Rmkane|Rmkane]] ([[User talk:Rmkane|talk]]) 12:17, 18 July 2016 (UTC)

Fixed table, made thumbnail discrepancy more apparent. -- [[User:Rmkane|Rmkane]] ([[User talk:Rmkane|talk]]) 15:45, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
:I can't really tell any difference between the thumbnails you have in the table above; it's hardly an eyesore. It'll be fine for about a month until it naturally ages out. We have a strict policy of not messing with image sizes solely to cheat these sorts of caching issues. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 16:09, 18 July 2016 (UTC)

== Gaining Experience ==
You can gain experience from visiting a pokestop, even if your bag is full. You appear to gain 50xp anytime you visit one and your bag is full.

I think that should be mentioned more explicitly in the table listing the ways of gaining xp, most likely attached to the 3 items or less case.

"Visit a PokéStop (3 items or less) 50" --> change to something like --> "Visit a PokéStop (3 items or less, including full bag) 50"

[[User:Ectropy|Ectropy]] ([[User talk:Ectropy|talk]]) 18:10, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
:I think that's a good idea. I've made a change in that spirit. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 03:51, 15 July 2016 (UTC)

Oh wait it may actually be possible to earn more than 50xp when spinning a poke stop if your bag is full. I just spun one and it appeared to give me 150xp. We may need to have people do some experimenting to figure out what exactly the behavior is. [[User:Ectropy|Ectropy]] ([[User talk:Ectropy|talk]]) 12:15, 15 July 2016 (UTC)

== Missing Max Potion Description ==

{| class="wikitable"
! Name !! Image !! Unlock requirements !! Description
|-
| [[Max Potion]] || [[File:GO_Max_Potion.png|40px]] || Level 25 || A spray-type medicine for treating wounds. It will completely restore the max HP of a single Pokémon.
|}

* [https://i.redditmedia.com/BkInIIb_V7J6sEePo6RO-yQdR7AOdQGQX-4gGP69d7o.jpg?w=320&s=4367a6653a5a9e998106b087dd04ad0a Reference image]

-- [[User:Rmkane|Rmkane]] ([[User talk:Rmkane|talk]]) 10:58, 15 July 2016 (UTC)

== Release dates, Europe ==

Why does this article say that Pokémon GO will come out in France and Russian in 2016 and rest of Europe soon? What is the difference between soon and in 2016? --[[User:Raltseye|Raltseye]] [[User talk:Raltseye|prata med mej]] 10:59, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
:The Pokemon.com sites in those languages specified a release date of 2016, while the official GO site and the other articles referenced only state "coming soon". The 2016 date is technically more specific than "soon", which is why it's noted for the relevant locations. --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 11:41, 15 July 2016 (UTC)

== [[Pokémon GO#Compatibility|Pokémon GO Compatibility]] Typo ==

"{{wp|Android Nougat|Android N}} will not '''*be*''' supported until the official Android release."

-- [[User:Rmkane|Rmkane]] ([[User talk:Rmkane|talk]]) 13:02, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
:Fixed!--[[User:PannenkoekenNL|PannenkoekenNL]] ([[User talk:PannenkoekenNL|talk]]) 13:11, 15 July 2016 (UTC)

:: With 0.29.2 released, the section in question should now be changed to (only) say this: 'Android devices: Android 4.4 to Android N, preferred resolution of 720×1280 pixels (not optimized for tablet)' and the line about 'official Android release' removed entirely. [[User:Skybunny|Skybunny]] ([[User talk:Skybunny|talk]]) 17:21, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
:::[https://support.pokemongo.nianticlabs.com/hc/en-us/articles/221958248-Supported-devices The help center] still states that Android N will not be supported until its official release. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 09:44, 16 July 2016 (UTC)

==Player Levels?==

Besides for bonus items and item unlocks. What do they do? {{unsigned|Zage}}

== Please add the Player's Guide at the top of the page ==
This page, which describes the general setup of Pokémon GO, and the [[Appendix:Pokémon GO Player's Guide|Pokémon GO Player's Guide]] serve different purposes. Since, especially as this game is new, not all game mechanics are well explained by Niantic in any central place, much less in the game itself (but said mechanics don't really belong on this page), the player's guide should really be featured at the top of the page, probably as a disambiguation style remark. E.g. 'For specifics on how to play Pokémon GO, see the [[Appendix:Pokémon GO Player's Guide|Pokémon GO Player's Guide]]. The Player's Guide should also be linked (or one of its subsections linked) when discussion becomes too specific for this page. Such as, 'For more about how Gym prestige works, see (...)'.

Thanks! [[User:Skybunny|Skybunny]] ([[User talk:Skybunny|talk]]) 17:16, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
:We don't typically link to our walkthroughs from a game's main page. Doing so on this page would mean we'd have to do it on every other game's page, too. Which might not be a bad thing, but it would require {{bp|Editorial Board}} approval... [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 15:50, 16 July 2016 (UTC)
::We do link them in the "See also" section (as we do on this article), but since you seem to not have noticed it, maybe it's not prominent enough... However, for Pokémon GO, the guide is currently linked in the sitenotice, which should help people find it if they are looking for it. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 17:00, 16 July 2016 (UTC)
::: Yeah, I definitely see your point, and I guess that's fair. What I was thinking of is an italicized note (that come to think of it, would be on all general game pages, yes), like the one in [[Template:PokémonPrevNextHead]]:

::: <code>For specifics of the gameplay of \{\{PAGENAME\}\}, see the [[Appendix:{{{PAGENAME}}} Player's Guide]].</code>

::: I'm not really strongly wedded to the idea, but if you think it's a good idea to have, maybe it ''is'' worth pushing up the chain. Best! [[User:Skybunny|Skybunny]] ([[User talk:Skybunny|talk]]) 19:32, 16 July 2016 (UTC)

== Game Data: Sprites, Items, and Moves ==

{| class="wikitable"
| Moves List || http://pastebin.com/YN0yTpeL
|-
| Items List || http://pastebin.com/nRZu1BCD
|-
| Sprites (1-150) || http://imgur.com/a/0xJAW
|-
| Sprite (Mew) || http://imgur.com/joXYcPo
|-
| Spritesheet || https://postimg.org/image/t370wkyfl/ or http://imgur.com/wA1i2qd
|-
| Sprite CSS || http://pastebin.com/dHJuuw9B
|-
| All Sprites Rendered || http://rmkane.com/experiment/pokemon/go_sprites/
|}

;References
* Moves, Items, and Sprites -- https://www.reddit.com/r/pokemongo/comments/4t33wy/my_brother_extracted_this_texture_map_from_the/d5ehdr2
* Sprites 1 - 150 -- https://www.reddit.com/r/pokemongo/comments/4s6axw/every_single_pokemon_including_ditto_legendaries/
* Mew Sprite -- https://www.reddit.com/r/pokemongo/comments/4s6axw/every_single_pokemon_including_ditto_legendaries/d56tf02
* Spritesheet -- https://www.reddit.com/r/pokemongo/comments/4stj8m/pokemon_go_sprite/

-- [[User:Rmkane|Rmkane]] ([[User talk:Rmkane|talk]]) 19:59, 16 July 2016 (UTC)

== On game publishers and developers ==

I'm not quite sure if I ever understood this, or if it's just a fuzzy definition per se. In general, here's what I believe:
* The publisher is whoever ''releases'' the game, who manufactures it, ships it etc.
* The developer is whoever ''makes'' the game, who programs it, who makes up the game concept (?), who tests it etc.
As a rule of thumb, publishers' names/trademarks can typically be found somewhere on the box of physical games, that of developers in the title screen in-game (plus, there may be overlaps).
Now, apps aren't really shipped, so here, publishers are those listed as "developers" in the app stores (as crazy as it sounds). Developers are still who made the game, it's just that they are more likely also publishers.

That said, I trust Bulbapedia more than another billion article wiki (that lists Niantic as developer and The Pokémon Company as publisher) on that matter. So, could anyone clear that up for me? Cause from the app's title screens, I'd say developers are either Niantic+Pokémon, or Niantic+Pokémon+Nintendo+Creatures+Game Freak. (Also, I like how it's phrased in the opening paragraph.) [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 11:24, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
:Ok, seems to be tough. Well, could someone at least explain our current choice of publishers and/or developers? [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 12:31, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
::So, after discussion, the other billion article wiki now lists Niantic as both developer and publisher. I've changed the article accordingly, while still prominently stating that it's a collaboration in the opening paragraph. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 13:51, 28 July 2016 (UTC)

== Game availability ==

We may want a separate section in this article distinguishing 'Countries in which it is possible to download the game' (released) and 'Countries in which it is possible to play the game at all', which as it turns out Niantic seems to be able to turn off on a geographic basis.

Niantic does not allow playing the game at all in South Korea, with the exception of the city of Sokcho, on the northeastern tip of the country. (Source: http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/22/asia/south-korea-pokemon-sokcho/ ). What I don't know is if this means Niantic simply turns off the ability to log in if your GPS is reported in a geographically blocked area, or if "there just aren't any gyms or Pokéstops in 'blocked areas'", which is probably a distinction worth researching. Also, if it's true in South Korea, it's probably true in other places. [[User:Skybunny|Skybunny]] ([[User talk:Skybunny|talk]]) 16:46, 26 July 2016 (UTC)
:There just aren't any Gyms, PokéStops and Pokémon in the blocked areas.--[[User:PannenkoekenNL|PannenkoekenNL]] ([[User talk:PannenkoekenNL|talk]]) 07:50, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

== Region-exclusive pokémon ==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Name
! Location
|-
| Mr Mime
| Europe
|-
| Farfetch'd
| Asia
|-
| Kangaskhan
| Australia/New Zealand
|-
| Tauros
| North American
|}
-- [[User:Seiya Loveless|Seiya Loveless]] ([[User talk:Seiya Loveless|talk]]) 10:30, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

== Error moves ==

Prevously I added to Trivia sections of various articles where Pokemon in Pokemon Go were able to learn moves they couldn't in the main series, it was all removed. Since 20th August, however, Niantic have removed these moves from thos Pokemon and given them moves that they can learn in the main series which seems to suggest they thought them a mistake. [[User:05308|Diamond]] [[Lanturn (Pokémon)|Lanturn]] [[User talk:05308|CodeName: 05308]] 09:28, 10 September 2016 (UTC)
:These have already been noted on the [[Game move errors]] page, and the relevant parts are noted in the GO sections of the respective Pokemon/move page. While it is interesting, I don't think that it really needs additional trivia mentions (staff seems to think so too). [[User:VioletPumpkin|VioletPumpkin]] ([[User talk:VioletPumpkin|talk]]) 14:08, 10 September 2016 (UTC)
::a, I see. Sorry, I forgot all about that page. [[User:05308|Diamond]] [[Lanturn (Pokémon)|Lanturn]] [[User talk:05308|CodeName: 05308]] 18:04, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

== Release schedule ==

My edit to add in China to the release schedule was removed, so I want to provide my citation here. In his TechCrunch interview on September 13, John Hanke said they're still working on rolling out Pokemon Go at "India, South Asia, parts of Africa, China." Here's the VOD of that interview:

https://techcrunch.com/video/john-hanke-of-niantic-labs-has-pokemon-plans/57d86c3e1c689950401abaf5/

Time stamp is 4:00.

- [[User:Homu|Homu]] ([[User talk:Homu|talk]]) 21:41, 18 September 2016 (UTC)
:Thanks for the source. However, at 4:00 at least, he's just saying that they haven't rolled out there. I don't see that as a confirmation they will, especially as he continues to say how they're somewhat continuously in contact with governments right after. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 13:23, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

== Pokémon Go India ==

Pokémon Go was released in India on December 14, 2016. Coin prices are ₹60 for 100, ₹300 for 550, ₹620 for 1200, ₹1200 for 2500, ₹2500 for 5200, and ₹6200 for 14500 Pokecoins. [[User:Budugoo|- Budugoo]] ([[User talk:Budugoo|talk]]) 08:14, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

== Pokémon GO in Russia ==

Since Pokémon GO wasn't released in 2016 but the site still states that it will be released last year, should we change it to upcoming or just leave it? --[[User:Raltseye|Raltseye]] [[User talk:Raltseye|prata med mej]] 19:07, 1 January 2017 (UTC)

== Ditto ==

Ditto can now be found disguised as Sentret. Recently caught a "Sentret" that revealed itself soon after. [[User:Epictwilight901|DarkShinyLugia]] ([[User talk:Epictwilight901|talk]]) 21:44, 25 February 2017 (UTC)
:That's already on the page. [[User:Glik|glik]][[User talk:Glik|glak]] 21:48, 25 February 2017 (UTC)

== Japanese names in the opening sentence ==

Should we maybe not do that for GO-related articles (and by extension, for anything that doesn't originate in Japan), move it to "In other languages" where all other languages are? I agree that for most things on here, Japanese names are more canon somehow than any other language (and may have been mistranslated or lost some connotation), so they somehow "deserve" such prominent placement, but when the original language ''is'' English and everything is basically translated '''to''' Japanese, I believe maybe we shouldn't emphasize their Japanese names in the same way. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 16:07, 2 March 2017 (UTC)

==Loading screens==

Niantic has made available, HD versions of the Halloween, Holiday, New Years, and Spring loading screens.

You can check them out on their [http://pokemongolive.com/en/post/loadingscreens official blog]. — [[User:Rmkane|Rmkane]] ([[User talk:Rmkane|talk]]) 11:53, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

:Niantic just published their Raid Battle loading screen on their blog linked above. All the images are HD or higher resolution. — [[User:Rmkane|Rmkane]] ([[User talk:Rmkane|talk]]) 13:09, 22 June 2017 (UTC)

== Missing images ==

I don't have permission to do that, so can someone upload missing images for Premier Ball and Raid Passes? They can be found here: http://imgur.com/gallery/zhZNV --[[User:Kubson302|Kubson302]] ([[User talk:Kubson302|talk]]) 11:24, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

== Version History ==

Is it worthwhile making the version history boxes collapsible now, seeing as they take up quite a lot of space? I know this is a pretty minor thing, I just didn't want to leap into editing it myself if it wasn't worth it at all. Don't wanna be too bold. Any thoughts? [[User:GloverMist|GloverMist]] ([[User talk:GloverMist|talk]]) 16:59, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

== Halloween event 2017 ==

I have also noticed increased spawns of other Pokémon, not included in the Global Events list, like Misdreavus, Murkrow, Cubone, Marowak, Meowth, Persian, Houndour and Houndoom. Should they be added there? [[User:OrangeDoggo|OrangeDoggo]] ([[User talk:OrangeDoggo|talk]]) 09:17, 21 October 2017 (UTC)
:Sure, I can't see why not. {{n|Pokémon GO Halloween event to introduce Generation III Ghost types|Our news article}} already hinted at official information being incomplete. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 10:45, 21 October 2017 (UTC)

==Raid Battles and Research==
I just want to ask why isn't there an article on Raid Battles yet? They were introduced in June 2017, and the Research was just introduced yesterday. [[User:UxieLover1994|UxieLover1994]] ([[User talk:UxieLover1994|talk]]) 18:06, 31 March 2018 (UTC)

==Limited availability==
I edited the text for Zangoose/Seviper because event though those were originally attached to Pulse/Minun now they match Solrock/Lunatone due to Pulse/Minun not being apart anymore. I added the precision about the Central and Westerna Pacific Ocean because Seviper/Solrock/Illumise (as well as Pulse -before worldwide availability- and Zangoose -before switch-) are found in Papeete, French Polynesia in the middle of the Pacific ocean. [[User:JaxomNC|JaxomNC]] ([[User talk:JaxomNC|talk]]) 22:26, 26 April 2018 (UTC)

== Side series game ==

Would Pokémon GO now be considered a side series game, because it has continuous connections between it and the main series games? It's not like the Ranger spin-offs, that only allow mystery gift transfers. [[User:Iml908|Iml908]] ([[User talk:Iml908|talk]]) 19:27, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

== Combining citations ==

I added a couple lines about transfer to the Let's Go games, but I don't there's a duplicate citation that I don't know how to get rid of. Can someone who knows how to do it help me out? [[User:Gruv Train|Gruv Train]] ([[User talk:Gruv Train|talk]]) 19:35, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

== New items and raid exclusive items no longer exclusive ==

It should be noted that Presents have been added to PokéStops. Evolution item can (sometimes, very rare) be rewarded from presents sent by friends. Rare Candy and Golden Raspberry are no longer exclusive to raids as they may be given as reward from field and special researches. TMs have also been given as reward for special researches (though initially Niantic hinted that they would also be available in field researches). And also Silver Pinap Berry ''"Feed this to a Pokémon to receive more Candy when you catch it and make it easier to catch."'' are available as rewards from field and special researches. [[User:JaxomNC|JaxomNC]] ([[User talk:JaxomNC|talk]]) 23:21, 26 September 2018 (UTC)

== North Korea ==

What about North Korea. It is not mentioned at all. Does it allow the game or not?[[User:Mega Linoone|Mega Linoone]] ([[User talk:Mega Linoone|talk]]) 04:38, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

== List of items in Pokémon GO ==

There should be a separate page for the list of items, considering that's how it is for every other page. And especially since this page is constantly going to keep growing with miscellaneous updates. [[User:TehPerson|TehPerson]] ([[User talk:TehPerson|talk]]) 01:46, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

== Page Splitting ==

This page is too massive as it is, and I propose we split pages into the following:

* [[User:TehPerson/List of Pokémon GO events|List of Pokémon GO events]]
* [[User:TehPerson/Pokémon GO/Version history|Pokémon GO/Version history]]
* [[User:TehPerson/List of Pokémon by availability (GO)|List of Pokémon by availability (GO)]] (work in progress)

[[User:TehPerson|TehPerson]] ([[User talk:TehPerson|talk]]) 20:02, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

: Support [[User:Qzekrom|Qzekrom]] ([[User talk:Qzekrom|talk]]) 04:19, 26 May 2019 (UTC)
::I like all of these splits, but I'm not really a fan of the appearance of the List of Pokémon GO events or List of Pokémon by availability (GO). Version history I'm a big fan of (and it follows the precedent of [[Pokémon Shuffle/Version history]]). --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 04:59, 26 May 2019 (UTC)
::: I like all the new pages personally, massive improvement in the clarity of information and helps tidy up the core page. [[User:Jimmyduckegg|Jimmyduckegg]] ([[User talk:Jimmyduckegg|talk]]) 22:21, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

== Apple Watch support discontinued ==
Niantic is [https://niantic.helpshift.com/a/pokemon-go/?p=web&s=top-articles&f=discontinued-support-for-apple-watch dropping support for Apple Watch] on July 1, 2019. After this date it'll be impossible to run the game on the watch anymore. Is there anyone that can describe how this particular version of Pokémon GO used to run before it stops wroking entirely? [[User:JaxomNC|JaxomNC]] ([[User talk:JaxomNC|talk]]) 23:44, 6 June 2019 (UTC)

==Special availability==
It should be noted that {{p|Absol}} and {{p|Mawile}} were both available in the wild during Pokémon GO Fest 2019 chicago. [[User:JaxomNC|JaxomNC]] ([[User talk:JaxomNC|talk]]) 04:50, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
:Added a note into the availability section. --[[User:Spriteit|Spriteit]] ([[User talk:Spriteit|talk]]) 09:07, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
::Also, I caught a wild Alolan Exeggutor in my first dozen Pokémon, so unless that was a limited time thing, I don't know why it's under special. [[User:Eragon4|Eragon4]] ([[User talk:Eragon4|talk]]) 14:49, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

== Term Confusion ==

In the "Connectivity" section, the word "transfer" is used extensively; and while this is correct, the same word is also used in the game to describe the process of deleting Pokémon for candy. Sadly, I can't see a way around this, but it really isn't that confusing. [[User:Eragon4|Eragon4]] ([[User talk:Eragon4|talk]]) 00:19, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

== Throwbacks ==

So what about the regional throwback? are we like not going to include that? [[User:Necrozma800|Necrozma800]] ([[User talk:Necrozma800|talk]]) 04:52, 10 May 2020 (UTC)
:Well, there have been so many events that [[List of events in Pokémon GO]] would be where it goes, right?--[[User:KnightGalarie|KnightGalarie]] ([[User talk:KnightGalarie|talk]]) 05:25, 10 May 2020 (UTC)
::Yes but in this article, it names everything that happens in Pokemon go . Shoun't this be included too? [[User:Necrozma800|Necrozma800]] ([[User talk:Necrozma800|talk]]) 23:36, 10 May 2020 (UTC)
:::Does it? That seems like an unfounded generalization--[[User:KnightGalarie|KnightGalarie]] ([[User talk:KnightGalarie|talk]]) 02:15, 11 May 2020 (UTC)
::::Well, it has all the Pokemon in Pokemon Go, all the Pokemon in Raids, every area specific Pokemon in Pokemon Go. Why shouldn't it have all the events that happen in Pokemon Go? [[User:Necrozma800|Necrozma800]] ([[User talk:Necrozma800|talk]]) 16:46, 11 May 2020 (UTC)
:::::Because its massive size is the purpose of spinning it off into the List of events in Pokémon GO page--[[User:KnightGalarie|KnightGalarie]] ([[User talk:KnightGalarie|talk]]) 16:47, 11 May 2020 (UTC)
::::::So you're saying that there's a massive difference between the Pokemon and the events? I say the article should at least mention the fact that there's a ton of articles with a link, right? [[User:Necrozma800|Necrozma800]] ([[User talk:Necrozma800|talk]]) 12:31, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
:::::::Read section 3--[[User:KnightGalarie|KnightGalarie]] ([[User talk:KnightGalarie|talk]]) 00:34, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
::::::::This tells me nothing.[[User:Necrozma800|Necrozma800]] ([[User talk:Necrozma800|talk]]) 06:10, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
::::::::: Section 3 is the [[Pokémon GO#Events|Literally the part of the page]] that links to the list of events. --[[User:Spriteit|Spriteit]] ([[User talk:Spriteit|talk]]) 07:34, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
::::::::::Well no wonder i couldnt really find it, the whle things one sentence with a link! Could you expand it more? [[User:Necrozma800|Necrozma800]] ([[User talk:Necrozma800|talk]]) 15:07, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
:::::::::::You couldn’t find section 3 titled “Events” in a table of contents when you were looking for events?--[[User:KnightGalarie|KnightGalarie]] ([[User talk:KnightGalarie|talk]]) 15:09, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
::::::::::::It was hard to find. I'm kinda new here so I'm kinda comparing this to wikipedia. [[User:Necrozma800|Necrozma800]] ([[User talk:Necrozma800|talk]]) 15:13, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
:::::::::::::Wikipedia behaves the exact same way. Like how recent years in American television have debuted so many programs that the section on the page solely consists of a Main page line to the article listing that year’s television debuts--[[User:KnightGalarie|KnightGalarie]] ([[User talk:KnightGalarie|talk]]) 15:34, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
::::::::::::::Huh. well I want to write in my userpage but i can't because i Have to appearently edit pages and thats gonna be hard since every part is always updated, ya know?[[User:Necrozma800|Necrozma800]] ([[User talk:Necrozma800|talk]]) 15:40, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::And you can end up bringing the updates if you put your heart to it. Like when Remote Raid Passes were revealed, I made the redirect, added them to the Raid Pass page and a passage about them on the COVID-19 pandemic page as it related. You’ll get there, trust me--[[User:KnightGalarie|KnightGalarie]] ([[User talk:KnightGalarie|talk]]) 15:45, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
::::::::::::::::Yeah but I feel like I just don't know where to start. I feel like I know the PokeDex really well but since you guys litterally have every Pokedex entry in there it's hard to edit anything now.....wait You forgot Pokemon Go's entries!...wait i forgot they're just the recent Pokedex entries...Dang it! [[User:Necrozma800|Necrozma800]] ([[User talk:Necrozma800|talk]]) 15:53, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

== Obstagoon and Perrserker ==

They are not going to be in Pokemon Go due to different PokeDexes. [[User:Necrozma800|Necrozma800]] ([[User talk:Necrozma800|talk]]) 02:13, 13 May 2020 (UTC)
:Niantic have stated they’re going to be added and their data was added to the game code in the most recent update. So, yeah, they are. [[User:GloverMist|GloverMist]] ([[User talk:GloverMist|talk]]) 07:45, 13 May 2020 (UTC)
::Then why not have all the evolutions in Pokemon Go. And what generation are they going to be in? Unknown? [[User:Necrozma800|Necrozma800]] ([[User talk:Necrozma800|talk]]) 23:44, 13 May 2020 (UTC)
:::They’ll be the start of the Galar Pokemon integration. Obviously. Come on.--[[User:KnightGalarie|KnightGalarie]] ([[User talk:KnightGalarie|talk]]) 00:06, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
::::Well I know that. But if that's the case, will meltan and Melmetal finallybe in the Alolan Pokedex? [[User:Necrozma800|Necrozma800]] ([[User talk:Necrozma800|talk]]) 06:03, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
:::::What does that have to do with it?[[User:Necrozma800|Necrozma800]] ([[User talk:Necrozma800|talk]]) 15:10, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
::::::Well I'm just saying are they're going to be more Regional Pokedexes now that more evolutions are going to be added? [[User:Necrozma800|Necrozma800]] ([[User talk:Necrozma800|talk]]) 06:31, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
:::::::None of us here are Niantic staff members. We'll have to wait and see. --[[User:Spriteit|Spriteit]] ([[User talk:Spriteit|talk]]) 07:34, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
::::::::Awww....Well are there going to be any other pokemon besides Obstagoon and Perrserker that are going to be in the game? [[User:Necrozma800|Necrozma800]] ([[User talk:Necrozma800|talk]]) 15:10, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
:::::::::Yeah, all Kanto to Hoenn Pokémon are. I think there’s some stragglers from Sinnoh and a good portion of Unova Pokémon still waiting. Kalos and Alola Pokémon still have to come through too. It’d be naive to assume they never come--[[User:KnightGalarie|KnightGalarie]] ([[User talk:KnightGalarie|talk]]) 15:15, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
::::::::::Yeah, but I guess now they're going completly haywire and adding Galarian evolution while not following the pokedex. Guess they're getting them out of the way? But then again why aren't they put all the Galarian forms in with the evolutions, ya know? [[User:Necrozma800|Necrozma800]] ([[User talk:Necrozma800|talk]]) 15:26, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
:::::::::::They added Alolan variants years before the wholly new native species could be added. You’re being overly exaggerating and acting as if they’re not going to do the things you’ve suggested unless you suggest them--[[User:KnightGalarie|KnightGalarie]] ([[User talk:KnightGalarie|talk]]) 15:32, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
::::::::::::Well still I think It's weird they're putting Obstagoon and Perserker despite them being Specifically only gen 8 pokemon. [[User:Necrozma800|Necrozma800]] ([[User talk:Necrozma800|talk]]) 15:37, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
:::::::::::::Except unlike Galarian Slowpoke in the Main series who currently sits standalone until whatever it evolves into is revealed, Obstagoon and Perrserker have already been revealed, so they might as well be made available with their Galarian preevolutions--[[User:KnightGalarie|KnightGalarie]] ([[User talk:KnightGalarie|talk]]) 15:45, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
::::::::::::::Wel what about Galarian Farfetch'd and Sirfetch'd or Galarian Corsola and Cursola? They could technetically be in there too, right? [[User:Necrozma800|Necrozma800]] ([[User talk:Necrozma800|talk]]) 15:48, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::At this point you’re not really listening, you’re just being impatient and anxious--[[User:KnightGalarie|KnightGalarie]] ([[User talk:KnightGalarie|talk]]) 15:49, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
::Niantic adds new Pokémon over time. As another admin stated above, none of us here work at Niantic. Those Pokémon will more than likely be added at a later point in time, please be patient. Thank you. ''[[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen]] [[User talk:Frozen Fennec|Fennec]]'' 15:50, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
:::Well I guess you're right. Hey by the way, Is there a page on here that deals with the mobile game of "Monster Carnival"? [[User:Necrozma800|Necrozma800]] ([[User talk:Necrozma800|talk]]) 15:56, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
::::No. We are a Pokémon wiki, we don't cover non-Pokémon based apps or games unless there is a crossover event with Pokémon. ''[[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen]] [[User talk:Frozen Fennec|Fennec]]'' 16:01, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
:::::And for that matter, no unlicensed stuff that parades itself using actual Pokémon imagery and/or does so without actually having the Pokémon in the game--[[User:KnightGalarie|KnightGalarie]] ([[User talk:KnightGalarie|talk]]) 16:04, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
::::::It kinda does both of that. It's a free to play game that has Pokemon in it and you can train and evolve it. The name is a bit misleading I know but it has Pokémon in it. [[User:Necrozma800|Necrozma800]] ([[User talk:Necrozma800|talk]]) 16:08, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
:::::::So you’re saying it’s unlicensed and you’re only here to attempt to legitimize it by giving it this platform. This is not an advertisement service--[[User:KnightGalarie|KnightGalarie]] ([[User talk:KnightGalarie|talk]]) 16:10, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
::::::::Well I don't know if it's unlicensed, but there is a crossover with pokemon. It's basically a Pokemon game but .....roblox style. I thought you guys would have it since theres Pokémon in it.
:::::::::If it was licensed it would be able to use the Pokémon name. It’s not a crossover, it’s a copyright infringement case--[[User:KnightGalarie|KnightGalarie]] ([[User talk:KnightGalarie|talk]]) 16:18, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
::::::::::Well I can tell you it's not licensed, it uses Pokemon sprites up to 3D models, and its on the app store so is it illegal? [[User:Necrozma800|Necrozma800]] ([[User talk:Necrozma800|talk]]) 16:21, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
:::::::::::Stop trying to give it legitimacy. Are you trying to drive up your edit count by prattling on?--[[User:KnightGalarie|KnightGalarie]] ([[User talk:KnightGalarie|talk]]) 16:23, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
::::::::::::Umm...no I'm just trying to see what I can do on here. T-T [[User:Necrozma800|Necrozma800]] ([[User talk:Necrozma800|talk]]) 16:27, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
:This conversation has gone entirely off-topic from the original question at this point. You both need to stop. Continued arguing on the talk page may lead to you both being temporarily being blocked from being able to edit pages. Please and thank you. ''[[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen]] [[User talk:Frozen Fennec|Fennec]]'' 16:37, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
::I told him to stop, he continued. I did nothing wrong. I am not responsible for Necrozma800’s stubbornness and his decision to change topic-[[User:KnightGalarie|KnightGalarie]] ([[User talk:KnightGalarie|talk]]) 16:42, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
:::You continued responding to him regardless, that counts as arguing. Please just drop it and move on, thanks. ''[[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen]] [[User talk:Frozen Fennec|Fennec]]'' 16:48, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

== Banned Names on Pokemon GO ==

Apparently P. Klang is an inappropriate name on Pokemon Go. I don't know what to do with this info so I'll leave it up to you. [[User:Necrozma800|Necrozma800]] ([[User talk:Necrozma800|talk]]) 22:46, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

== Pokédex Entries from Pokémon GO on Bulbapedia? ==
Should Bulbapedia have a separate area for each Pokémon's Pokédex entries, like in the area where one can see its Pokémon GO stats or up with Pokédex entries from other games? I would think it could be a nice edition to each Pokémon page to have their Pokémon GO Pokédex entry. Gallade User 22:22, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

== Apparently the game's being suspended in Russia. ==

https://twitter.com/NianticLabs/status/1502120716665118725

Is this worth putting in trivia, if not someplace else? [[User:Unowninator|¿¡Unowninator?!]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 16:25, 11 March 2022 (UTC)
:The release section works. [[User:Glik|glik]][[User talk:Glik|glak]] 17:20, 11 March 2022 (UTC)
::Alright then, thanks. [[User:Unowninator|¿¡Unowninator?!]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 18:03, 11 March 2022 (UTC)

== Load screens broken pictures ==

The load screens sections have broken pictures for the last 14 or so versions, starting with the Christmas of 2019 load screen. --[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 18:58, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

== Routes ==

since last week Pokémon GO implemented a new '''Gameplay''' feature called '''Routes''', we need to add that mechanic into the article, '''and since a year ago half the load screens in the gallery are broken starting with Christmas of 2019.''' --[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 18:49, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

Talk:Pokémon GO

2023-08-01T18:49:44Z

Neos: /* Routes */ new section

== Generation confirmed? ==

The article's infobox states that the game is part of Generation VI. Has this actually been confirmed? I would have thought now that it's more likely this game will be part of Generation VII. If the information is not confirmed, can we just remove it? [[User:Kidburla|Kidburla]] ([[User talk:Kidburla|talk]]) 21:17, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

== 2015/2016 confusion ==
"....held by Niantic CEO John Hanke on March 14, 2015, but was later cancelled..."

Isn't "2015" supposed to be 2016? [[User:Chaossy|Chaossy]] ([[User talk:Chaossy|talk]]) 20:22, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
: Slightly late, but you are correct. Hopefully someone should fix it soon with more eyes on the page. --[[User:Super goku|Super goku]] ([[User talk:Super goku|talk]]) 16:01, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

== Pokémon Go Plus ==

This is confirmed to be $34.99 and may be released in late July (they will try for that). [[User:Kurt22|Kurt22]] ([[User talk:Kurt22|talk]]) 22:25, 15 June 2016 (UTC)

== Coin Prize Euros ==

The coin prizes are:

€ 0,99 for 100
€ 4,99 for 550
€ 9,99 for 1200
€ 19,99 for 2500
€ 39,99 for 5200
€ 99,99 for 14500

[[User:Bigtukker|Bigtukker]] ([[User talk:Bigtukker|talk]]) 15:57, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

== Size and weight ==

Unlike core series, it's not fixed. Pokémon can be lighter/heavier and/or smaller/taller than the usual norm. For example, I have seen a picture of 0.65m/4.8kg Raticate (marked with XS for weight). [[User:Eridanus|Eridanus]] ([[User talk:Eridanus|talk]]) 12:55, 7 July 2016 (UTC)

== Pikachu can be caught as starter Pokémon ==
As seen in this picture a player can get pikachu by walking away from the other three https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cm3wRieW8AA0cgM.jpg:large [[User:Veilor|Veilor]] ([[User talk:Veilor|talk]]) 22:39, 8 July 2016 (UTC)

== Eeveelutions ==

The article currently says that eevee evolves based on its moves but that doesn't seem to be the case based on the data being compiled [https://www.reddit.com/r/pokemongo/comments/4s135q/lets_test_how_the_eeveelution_system_works/ here] {{unsigned|Spexile}}
:I read the post and thought I maybe understood what it wanted, but then I looked at the data spreadsheet and it pretty much stopped making all sense to me... The only thing I can understand from it is that, yes, it does appear Eevee's evolution criteria is not just the move it knows. Beyond that, I don't know it'll even be ''possible'' to draw any conclusions from that spreadsheet. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 23:24, 9 July 2016 (UTC)

== Regarding Available Pokemon and Items ==

Item list should be updated to include the disposable incubators. This user has found them at PokeStops with capability to incubate up to 3 eggs in total, one at a time. Possibility of stronger incubators?

Also, current PokeDex is listing user's owned pokemon out of available 250. While there have been little to no reports on Generation II Pokemon being seen or caught, it should be noted that the game is listing them as a possibility, likely at higher trainer levels. {{unsigned|Carson3000}}
:You may want to double-check, are you really looking in the Pokedex (like [https://support.pokemongo.nianticlabs.com/hc/en-us/articles/221958028-Viewing-the-Pok%C3%A9dex here]) when you see something like "X/250", or are you actually looking at just the Pokemon collection? [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 06:13, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
:(edit conflict; sorry) I don't think the 250 capacity is (necessarily) any indication of Gen 2 Pokemon in the works. It's much more plausible, given the game mechanics, that the developers wanted to give people enough capacity to own more than one of each species. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 06:15, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
::You can also purchase a Pokémon Storage Upgrade for 200 PokéCoins, so I really don't think this is a good argument. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 07:47, 11 July 2016 (UTC)

== Eevee evolution ==

People suggest that it depends on its special move; Body Slam is Jolteon; Swift is Vaporeon and Dig is Flareon. Unfortunately, I cannot test that. [[User:Eridanus|Eridanus]] ([[User talk:Eridanus|talk]]) 08:19, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
:See [[#Eeveelutions]] above. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 08:25, 11 July 2016 (UTC)

== Team Descriptions ==

I would if I could... but the descriptions of each team/faction should be listed under the [[Pokémon GO#Teams]] header.

Here they are:

;Instinct (Yellow)

''"Hey! The name's Spark -- the leader of Team Instinct. Pokemon are creatures with excellent intuition. I bet the secret to their intuition is related to how they're hatched. Come and join my team! You never lose when you trust your instincts!"''

;Mystic (Blue)

''"I am Blanche, leader of Team Mystic. The wisdom of Pokemon is immeasurably deep. I am researching why it is that they evolve. With our calm analysis of every situation, we can't lose!"''

;Valor (Red)

''"I'm Candela -- Team Valor's leader! Pokemon are stronger than humans, and they're warmhearted, too! I'm researching ways to enhance Pokemon's natural power in the pursuit of true strength. There's no doubt that the Pokemon our team have trained at the strongest in battle! Are you ready?"''

- Thanks, [[User:Rmkane|Rmkane]] ([[User talk:Rmkane|talk]]) 15:32, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
:added!--[[User:PannenkoekenNL|PannenkoekenNL]] ([[User talk:PannenkoekenNL|talk]]) 20:06, 11 July 2016 (UTC)

In the opening description about the teams, I think it would be good to mention that they are Professor Willow's research teams, each specializing in a certain area of Pokemon study. Usually, "team" in Pokemon refers to an organization/gang, so I feel it's something worth explaining for clarification. --[[User:Shinobi|Shinobi]] ([[User talk:Shinobi|talk]]) 03:56, 17 July 2016 (UTC)

== Add pictures of items ==
Could someone add the missing pictures of items, I don't have the permissions to do so. They can be found here: https://imgur.com/a/XNJOA --[[User:PannenkoekenNL|PannenkoekenNL]] ([[User talk:PannenkoekenNL|talk]]) 07:56, 12 July 2016 (UTC)

== Official Glossary Images ==

The official [https://support.pokemongo.nianticlabs.com/hc/en-us/articles/222049307-Glossary Pokémon Go glossary] has some images that are missing: http://imgur.com/a/bT3Cs Although, some of the images are not transparent... I don't know why, but wouldn't the official site have better images?

-- [[User:Rmkane|Rmkane]] ([[User talk:Rmkane|talk]]) 14:25, 12 July 2016 (UTC)

== Combat Point calculation ==

In regards to combat points, or CP, [http://pokestomped.com/2016/07/11/on-pokemon-evolution-and-powerup/ research] and a [http://pokestomped.com/2016/07/11/on-pokemon-evolution-and-powerup/#comment-3 theory I'm developing] will allow us to start quantifying the game much better. We should soon have modifiers for each Pokémon in the game, but we will likely have to do our own research, which will be difficult since randomness is implemented in the calculations. I don't think I can gather much data with my location, but I'd love to crunch numbers if anyone else wants to do a bunch of powerups on each species. Let me know what you guys think. {{unsigned|PlatypusVenom}}

== Missing Key Item Images ==

In regards to the '''[[Pokémon GO#Key_Items|'Key Items' table]]''':

{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Name
! Image
! Location
! Dimensions
|-
| Camera
| File:GO_Camera
| style="text-align:center;" | http://i.imgur.com/MySrPFv.png
| style="text-align:center;" | 98 x 98
|-
| Egg Incubator ∞
| File:GO_Incubator_∞
| style="text-align:center;" | http://i.imgur.com/AWS4U2I.png
| style="text-align:center;" | 118 x 118
|}

If anyone can find better quality/resolution images, direct them here. Could someone upload these since I do not have the authority, because I have yet to meet the requirements to do so. -- [[User:Rmkane|Rmkane]] ([[User talk:Rmkane|talk]]) 12:57, 13 July 2016 (UTC)
:Thanks, I've uploaded these. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 13:03, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

== NA release date? ==

I don't get this, was Pokémon GO release in USA at the same time as Canada or is it not released there at all? Or was it released in USA at the 6 July and later in Canada? This is confusing because it said USA only on the page at first but then the USA only was removed. Was that because it was released in Canada or what? --[[User:Raltseye|Raltseye]] [[User talk:Raltseye|prata med mej]] 13:17, 13 July 2016 (UTC)
:For consistency with other pages, the infobox lists the date of first availability within each region. The detailed, country-by-country breakdown is better served by prose than by the infobox. --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 13:58, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

== Mystic Emblem is Wrong ==

The colors and the bottom of the hexagon are incorrect. Along with other things such as the curves of the feathers.

Here is a high quality version that uses the correct colors and hexagon: http://imgur.com/QCo3SFa

It is exported at 1,200 x 1,200 just like the other team's emblems. If you require the SVG, just leave a message on my [[User talk:Rmkane|talk page]].

;References
* The source of the image was derived from here: '''[https://www.reddit.com/r/PokemonGoMystic/comments/4sldnz /r/PokemonGoMystic :: This is a public service announcement. This PNG is the correct shape, please don't waste your money on shirts with the wrong shape!]'''
* Other vectors can be found here: '''[https://www.reddit.com/r/pokemongo/comments/4s6oti /r/PokemonGO :: Pokémon GO Team Vector Logos]'''
* In-game screen showing emblem: http://imgur.com/67uZlVS

-- Thanks, [[User:Rmkane|Rmkane]] ([[User talk:Rmkane|talk]]) 05:15, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

-- [[User:Rmkane|Rmkane]] ([[User talk:Rmkane|talk]]) 05:22, 14 July 2016 (UTC) (Need this, cause the reminder tells me that it's required…
:Thanks, I've uploaded it. Checking the others against screenshots, Valor appears to have the wrong colors (the ring should be light red) and Instinct appears to have incorrect transparency (the beak is white). --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 05:34, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

I went ahead and exported all the vectors from the second reference above: http://imgur.com/a/yZs6P If you notice, in the current Instinct emblem, the [[Zapdos|Zapdos']] points on its head are non-symmetrical. You will also see the color correction for the ring around the [[Moltres]].

-- Thanks, [[User:Rmkane|Rmkane]] ([[User talk:Rmkane|talk]]) 10:35, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

== Cached Images ==

Since I cannot edit the main article, can someone change the size of the thumbnails of the team emblems? Right now, they are cached (on the CDN server) as the out-of date; [http://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/thumb/f/f4/Team_Mystic_emblem.png/50px-Team_Mystic_emblem.png fan-art versions at 50px]. They are an eyesore, and I think that a more standard resolution of 48px or 64px would be more appropriate.

-- Thanks, [[User:Rmkane|Rmkane]] ([[User talk:Rmkane|talk]]) 14:55, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
-- [[User:Rmkane|Rmkane]] ([[User talk:Rmkane|talk]]) 14:56, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

Can someone please update the cached images for the teams? The fan-art logos should not be appearing anymore. Updating the size of the images should create a new cached thumbnail. Thanks, [[User:Rmkane|Rmkane]] ([[User talk:Rmkane|talk]]) 18:21, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
:The latest versions are showing up for me. Try purging your browser cache. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 05:11, 18 July 2016 (UTC)

Well, I have tried four different browsers, and they are still using the incorrect thumbnail. This is not a browser cache issue. The CDN does not know that the image has been updated.

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center;"
!
! Team_Instinct_emblem.png
! Team_Mystic_emblem.png
! Team_Valor_emblem.png
|-
| What is Displayed (cached at 50px)
| http://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/thumb/0/06/Team_Instinct_emblem.png/50px-Team_Instinct_emblem.png
| http://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/thumb/f/f4/Team_Mystic_emblem.png/50px-Team_Mystic_emblem.png
| http://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/thumb/e/e9/Team_Valor_emblem.png/50px-Team_Valor_emblem.png
|-
| What Should be Displayed (48px or any other suitable size)
| [[File:Team_Instinct_emblem.png|48px]]
| [[File:Team_Mystic_emblem.png|48px]]
| [[File:Team_Valor_emblem.png|48px]]
|}

These are direct links to the images that are stored on the site's server. Could someone just adjust the size of the image to 48px? -- [[User:Rmkane|Rmkane]] ([[User talk:Rmkane|talk]]) 12:17, 18 July 2016 (UTC)

Fixed table, made thumbnail discrepancy more apparent. -- [[User:Rmkane|Rmkane]] ([[User talk:Rmkane|talk]]) 15:45, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
:I can't really tell any difference between the thumbnails you have in the table above; it's hardly an eyesore. It'll be fine for about a month until it naturally ages out. We have a strict policy of not messing with image sizes solely to cheat these sorts of caching issues. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 16:09, 18 July 2016 (UTC)

== Gaining Experience ==
You can gain experience from visiting a pokestop, even if your bag is full. You appear to gain 50xp anytime you visit one and your bag is full.

I think that should be mentioned more explicitly in the table listing the ways of gaining xp, most likely attached to the 3 items or less case.

"Visit a PokéStop (3 items or less) 50" --> change to something like --> "Visit a PokéStop (3 items or less, including full bag) 50"

[[User:Ectropy|Ectropy]] ([[User talk:Ectropy|talk]]) 18:10, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
:I think that's a good idea. I've made a change in that spirit. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 03:51, 15 July 2016 (UTC)

Oh wait it may actually be possible to earn more than 50xp when spinning a poke stop if your bag is full. I just spun one and it appeared to give me 150xp. We may need to have people do some experimenting to figure out what exactly the behavior is. [[User:Ectropy|Ectropy]] ([[User talk:Ectropy|talk]]) 12:15, 15 July 2016 (UTC)

== Missing Max Potion Description ==

{| class="wikitable"
! Name !! Image !! Unlock requirements !! Description
|-
| [[Max Potion]] || [[File:GO_Max_Potion.png|40px]] || Level 25 || A spray-type medicine for treating wounds. It will completely restore the max HP of a single Pokémon.
|}

* [https://i.redditmedia.com/BkInIIb_V7J6sEePo6RO-yQdR7AOdQGQX-4gGP69d7o.jpg?w=320&s=4367a6653a5a9e998106b087dd04ad0a Reference image]

-- [[User:Rmkane|Rmkane]] ([[User talk:Rmkane|talk]]) 10:58, 15 July 2016 (UTC)

== Release dates, Europe ==

Why does this article say that Pokémon GO will come out in France and Russian in 2016 and rest of Europe soon? What is the difference between soon and in 2016? --[[User:Raltseye|Raltseye]] [[User talk:Raltseye|prata med mej]] 10:59, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
:The Pokemon.com sites in those languages specified a release date of 2016, while the official GO site and the other articles referenced only state "coming soon". The 2016 date is technically more specific than "soon", which is why it's noted for the relevant locations. --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 11:41, 15 July 2016 (UTC)

== [[Pokémon GO#Compatibility|Pokémon GO Compatibility]] Typo ==

"{{wp|Android Nougat|Android N}} will not '''*be*''' supported until the official Android release."

-- [[User:Rmkane|Rmkane]] ([[User talk:Rmkane|talk]]) 13:02, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
:Fixed!--[[User:PannenkoekenNL|PannenkoekenNL]] ([[User talk:PannenkoekenNL|talk]]) 13:11, 15 July 2016 (UTC)

:: With 0.29.2 released, the section in question should now be changed to (only) say this: 'Android devices: Android 4.4 to Android N, preferred resolution of 720×1280 pixels (not optimized for tablet)' and the line about 'official Android release' removed entirely. [[User:Skybunny|Skybunny]] ([[User talk:Skybunny|talk]]) 17:21, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
:::[https://support.pokemongo.nianticlabs.com/hc/en-us/articles/221958248-Supported-devices The help center] still states that Android N will not be supported until its official release. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 09:44, 16 July 2016 (UTC)

==Player Levels?==

Besides for bonus items and item unlocks. What do they do? {{unsigned|Zage}}

== Please add the Player's Guide at the top of the page ==
This page, which describes the general setup of Pokémon GO, and the [[Appendix:Pokémon GO Player's Guide|Pokémon GO Player's Guide]] serve different purposes. Since, especially as this game is new, not all game mechanics are well explained by Niantic in any central place, much less in the game itself (but said mechanics don't really belong on this page), the player's guide should really be featured at the top of the page, probably as a disambiguation style remark. E.g. 'For specifics on how to play Pokémon GO, see the [[Appendix:Pokémon GO Player's Guide|Pokémon GO Player's Guide]]. The Player's Guide should also be linked (or one of its subsections linked) when discussion becomes too specific for this page. Such as, 'For more about how Gym prestige works, see (...)'.

Thanks! [[User:Skybunny|Skybunny]] ([[User talk:Skybunny|talk]]) 17:16, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
:We don't typically link to our walkthroughs from a game's main page. Doing so on this page would mean we'd have to do it on every other game's page, too. Which might not be a bad thing, but it would require {{bp|Editorial Board}} approval... [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 15:50, 16 July 2016 (UTC)
::We do link them in the "See also" section (as we do on this article), but since you seem to not have noticed it, maybe it's not prominent enough... However, for Pokémon GO, the guide is currently linked in the sitenotice, which should help people find it if they are looking for it. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 17:00, 16 July 2016 (UTC)
::: Yeah, I definitely see your point, and I guess that's fair. What I was thinking of is an italicized note (that come to think of it, would be on all general game pages, yes), like the one in [[Template:PokémonPrevNextHead]]:

::: <code>For specifics of the gameplay of \{\{PAGENAME\}\}, see the [[Appendix:{{{PAGENAME}}} Player's Guide]].</code>

::: I'm not really strongly wedded to the idea, but if you think it's a good idea to have, maybe it ''is'' worth pushing up the chain. Best! [[User:Skybunny|Skybunny]] ([[User talk:Skybunny|talk]]) 19:32, 16 July 2016 (UTC)

== Game Data: Sprites, Items, and Moves ==

{| class="wikitable"
| Moves List || http://pastebin.com/YN0yTpeL
|-
| Items List || http://pastebin.com/nRZu1BCD
|-
| Sprites (1-150) || http://imgur.com/a/0xJAW
|-
| Sprite (Mew) || http://imgur.com/joXYcPo
|-
| Spritesheet || https://postimg.org/image/t370wkyfl/ or http://imgur.com/wA1i2qd
|-
| Sprite CSS || http://pastebin.com/dHJuuw9B
|-
| All Sprites Rendered || http://rmkane.com/experiment/pokemon/go_sprites/
|}

;References
* Moves, Items, and Sprites -- https://www.reddit.com/r/pokemongo/comments/4t33wy/my_brother_extracted_this_texture_map_from_the/d5ehdr2
* Sprites 1 - 150 -- https://www.reddit.com/r/pokemongo/comments/4s6axw/every_single_pokemon_including_ditto_legendaries/
* Mew Sprite -- https://www.reddit.com/r/pokemongo/comments/4s6axw/every_single_pokemon_including_ditto_legendaries/d56tf02
* Spritesheet -- https://www.reddit.com/r/pokemongo/comments/4stj8m/pokemon_go_sprite/

-- [[User:Rmkane|Rmkane]] ([[User talk:Rmkane|talk]]) 19:59, 16 July 2016 (UTC)

== On game publishers and developers ==

I'm not quite sure if I ever understood this, or if it's just a fuzzy definition per se. In general, here's what I believe:
* The publisher is whoever ''releases'' the game, who manufactures it, ships it etc.
* The developer is whoever ''makes'' the game, who programs it, who makes up the game concept (?), who tests it etc.
As a rule of thumb, publishers' names/trademarks can typically be found somewhere on the box of physical games, that of developers in the title screen in-game (plus, there may be overlaps).
Now, apps aren't really shipped, so here, publishers are those listed as "developers" in the app stores (as crazy as it sounds). Developers are still who made the game, it's just that they are more likely also publishers.

That said, I trust Bulbapedia more than another billion article wiki (that lists Niantic as developer and The Pokémon Company as publisher) on that matter. So, could anyone clear that up for me? Cause from the app's title screens, I'd say developers are either Niantic+Pokémon, or Niantic+Pokémon+Nintendo+Creatures+Game Freak. (Also, I like how it's phrased in the opening paragraph.) [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 11:24, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
:Ok, seems to be tough. Well, could someone at least explain our current choice of publishers and/or developers? [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 12:31, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
::So, after discussion, the other billion article wiki now lists Niantic as both developer and publisher. I've changed the article accordingly, while still prominently stating that it's a collaboration in the opening paragraph. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 13:51, 28 July 2016 (UTC)

== Game availability ==

We may want a separate section in this article distinguishing 'Countries in which it is possible to download the game' (released) and 'Countries in which it is possible to play the game at all', which as it turns out Niantic seems to be able to turn off on a geographic basis.

Niantic does not allow playing the game at all in South Korea, with the exception of the city of Sokcho, on the northeastern tip of the country. (Source: http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/22/asia/south-korea-pokemon-sokcho/ ). What I don't know is if this means Niantic simply turns off the ability to log in if your GPS is reported in a geographically blocked area, or if "there just aren't any gyms or Pokéstops in 'blocked areas'", which is probably a distinction worth researching. Also, if it's true in South Korea, it's probably true in other places. [[User:Skybunny|Skybunny]] ([[User talk:Skybunny|talk]]) 16:46, 26 July 2016 (UTC)
:There just aren't any Gyms, PokéStops and Pokémon in the blocked areas.--[[User:PannenkoekenNL|PannenkoekenNL]] ([[User talk:PannenkoekenNL|talk]]) 07:50, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

== Region-exclusive pokémon ==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Name
! Location
|-
| Mr Mime
| Europe
|-
| Farfetch'd
| Asia
|-
| Kangaskhan
| Australia/New Zealand
|-
| Tauros
| North American
|}
-- [[User:Seiya Loveless|Seiya Loveless]] ([[User talk:Seiya Loveless|talk]]) 10:30, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

== Error moves ==

Prevously I added to Trivia sections of various articles where Pokemon in Pokemon Go were able to learn moves they couldn't in the main series, it was all removed. Since 20th August, however, Niantic have removed these moves from thos Pokemon and given them moves that they can learn in the main series which seems to suggest they thought them a mistake. [[User:05308|Diamond]] [[Lanturn (Pokémon)|Lanturn]] [[User talk:05308|CodeName: 05308]] 09:28, 10 September 2016 (UTC)
:These have already been noted on the [[Game move errors]] page, and the relevant parts are noted in the GO sections of the respective Pokemon/move page. While it is interesting, I don't think that it really needs additional trivia mentions (staff seems to think so too). [[User:VioletPumpkin|VioletPumpkin]] ([[User talk:VioletPumpkin|talk]]) 14:08, 10 September 2016 (UTC)
::a, I see. Sorry, I forgot all about that page. [[User:05308|Diamond]] [[Lanturn (Pokémon)|Lanturn]] [[User talk:05308|CodeName: 05308]] 18:04, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

== Release schedule ==

My edit to add in China to the release schedule was removed, so I want to provide my citation here. In his TechCrunch interview on September 13, John Hanke said they're still working on rolling out Pokemon Go at "India, South Asia, parts of Africa, China." Here's the VOD of that interview:

https://techcrunch.com/video/john-hanke-of-niantic-labs-has-pokemon-plans/57d86c3e1c689950401abaf5/

Time stamp is 4:00.

- [[User:Homu|Homu]] ([[User talk:Homu|talk]]) 21:41, 18 September 2016 (UTC)
:Thanks for the source. However, at 4:00 at least, he's just saying that they haven't rolled out there. I don't see that as a confirmation they will, especially as he continues to say how they're somewhat continuously in contact with governments right after. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 13:23, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

== Pokémon Go India ==

Pokémon Go was released in India on December 14, 2016. Coin prices are ₹60 for 100, ₹300 for 550, ₹620 for 1200, ₹1200 for 2500, ₹2500 for 5200, and ₹6200 for 14500 Pokecoins. [[User:Budugoo|- Budugoo]] ([[User talk:Budugoo|talk]]) 08:14, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

== Pokémon GO in Russia ==

Since Pokémon GO wasn't released in 2016 but the site still states that it will be released last year, should we change it to upcoming or just leave it? --[[User:Raltseye|Raltseye]] [[User talk:Raltseye|prata med mej]] 19:07, 1 January 2017 (UTC)

== Ditto ==

Ditto can now be found disguised as Sentret. Recently caught a "Sentret" that revealed itself soon after. [[User:Epictwilight901|DarkShinyLugia]] ([[User talk:Epictwilight901|talk]]) 21:44, 25 February 2017 (UTC)
:That's already on the page. [[User:Glik|glik]][[User talk:Glik|glak]] 21:48, 25 February 2017 (UTC)

== Japanese names in the opening sentence ==

Should we maybe not do that for GO-related articles (and by extension, for anything that doesn't originate in Japan), move it to "In other languages" where all other languages are? I agree that for most things on here, Japanese names are more canon somehow than any other language (and may have been mistranslated or lost some connotation), so they somehow "deserve" such prominent placement, but when the original language ''is'' English and everything is basically translated '''to''' Japanese, I believe maybe we shouldn't emphasize their Japanese names in the same way. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 16:07, 2 March 2017 (UTC)

==Loading screens==

Niantic has made available, HD versions of the Halloween, Holiday, New Years, and Spring loading screens.

You can check them out on their [http://pokemongolive.com/en/post/loadingscreens official blog]. — [[User:Rmkane|Rmkane]] ([[User talk:Rmkane|talk]]) 11:53, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

:Niantic just published their Raid Battle loading screen on their blog linked above. All the images are HD or higher resolution. — [[User:Rmkane|Rmkane]] ([[User talk:Rmkane|talk]]) 13:09, 22 June 2017 (UTC)

== Missing images ==

I don't have permission to do that, so can someone upload missing images for Premier Ball and Raid Passes? They can be found here: http://imgur.com/gallery/zhZNV --[[User:Kubson302|Kubson302]] ([[User talk:Kubson302|talk]]) 11:24, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

== Version History ==

Is it worthwhile making the version history boxes collapsible now, seeing as they take up quite a lot of space? I know this is a pretty minor thing, I just didn't want to leap into editing it myself if it wasn't worth it at all. Don't wanna be too bold. Any thoughts? [[User:GloverMist|GloverMist]] ([[User talk:GloverMist|talk]]) 16:59, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

== Halloween event 2017 ==

I have also noticed increased spawns of other Pokémon, not included in the Global Events list, like Misdreavus, Murkrow, Cubone, Marowak, Meowth, Persian, Houndour and Houndoom. Should they be added there? [[User:OrangeDoggo|OrangeDoggo]] ([[User talk:OrangeDoggo|talk]]) 09:17, 21 October 2017 (UTC)
:Sure, I can't see why not. {{n|Pokémon GO Halloween event to introduce Generation III Ghost types|Our news article}} already hinted at official information being incomplete. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 10:45, 21 October 2017 (UTC)

==Raid Battles and Research==
I just want to ask why isn't there an article on Raid Battles yet? They were introduced in June 2017, and the Research was just introduced yesterday. [[User:UxieLover1994|UxieLover1994]] ([[User talk:UxieLover1994|talk]]) 18:06, 31 March 2018 (UTC)

==Limited availability==
I edited the text for Zangoose/Seviper because event though those were originally attached to Pulse/Minun now they match Solrock/Lunatone due to Pulse/Minun not being apart anymore. I added the precision about the Central and Westerna Pacific Ocean because Seviper/Solrock/Illumise (as well as Pulse -before worldwide availability- and Zangoose -before switch-) are found in Papeete, French Polynesia in the middle of the Pacific ocean. [[User:JaxomNC|JaxomNC]] ([[User talk:JaxomNC|talk]]) 22:26, 26 April 2018 (UTC)

== Side series game ==

Would Pokémon GO now be considered a side series game, because it has continuous connections between it and the main series games? It's not like the Ranger spin-offs, that only allow mystery gift transfers. [[User:Iml908|Iml908]] ([[User talk:Iml908|talk]]) 19:27, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

== Combining citations ==

I added a couple lines about transfer to the Let's Go games, but I don't there's a duplicate citation that I don't know how to get rid of. Can someone who knows how to do it help me out? [[User:Gruv Train|Gruv Train]] ([[User talk:Gruv Train|talk]]) 19:35, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

== New items and raid exclusive items no longer exclusive ==

It should be noted that Presents have been added to PokéStops. Evolution item can (sometimes, very rare) be rewarded from presents sent by friends. Rare Candy and Golden Raspberry are no longer exclusive to raids as they may be given as reward from field and special researches. TMs have also been given as reward for special researches (though initially Niantic hinted that they would also be available in field researches). And also Silver Pinap Berry ''"Feed this to a Pokémon to receive more Candy when you catch it and make it easier to catch."'' are available as rewards from field and special researches. [[User:JaxomNC|JaxomNC]] ([[User talk:JaxomNC|talk]]) 23:21, 26 September 2018 (UTC)

== North Korea ==

What about North Korea. It is not mentioned at all. Does it allow the game or not?[[User:Mega Linoone|Mega Linoone]] ([[User talk:Mega Linoone|talk]]) 04:38, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

== List of items in Pokémon GO ==

There should be a separate page for the list of items, considering that's how it is for every other page. And especially since this page is constantly going to keep growing with miscellaneous updates. [[User:TehPerson|TehPerson]] ([[User talk:TehPerson|talk]]) 01:46, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

== Page Splitting ==

This page is too massive as it is, and I propose we split pages into the following:

* [[User:TehPerson/List of Pokémon GO events|List of Pokémon GO events]]
* [[User:TehPerson/Pokémon GO/Version history|Pokémon GO/Version history]]
* [[User:TehPerson/List of Pokémon by availability (GO)|List of Pokémon by availability (GO)]] (work in progress)

[[User:TehPerson|TehPerson]] ([[User talk:TehPerson|talk]]) 20:02, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

: Support [[User:Qzekrom|Qzekrom]] ([[User talk:Qzekrom|talk]]) 04:19, 26 May 2019 (UTC)
::I like all of these splits, but I'm not really a fan of the appearance of the List of Pokémon GO events or List of Pokémon by availability (GO). Version history I'm a big fan of (and it follows the precedent of [[Pokémon Shuffle/Version history]]). --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 04:59, 26 May 2019 (UTC)
::: I like all the new pages personally, massive improvement in the clarity of information and helps tidy up the core page. [[User:Jimmyduckegg|Jimmyduckegg]] ([[User talk:Jimmyduckegg|talk]]) 22:21, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

== Apple Watch support discontinued ==
Niantic is [https://niantic.helpshift.com/a/pokemon-go/?p=web&s=top-articles&f=discontinued-support-for-apple-watch dropping support for Apple Watch] on July 1, 2019. After this date it'll be impossible to run the game on the watch anymore. Is there anyone that can describe how this particular version of Pokémon GO used to run before it stops wroking entirely? [[User:JaxomNC|JaxomNC]] ([[User talk:JaxomNC|talk]]) 23:44, 6 June 2019 (UTC)

==Special availability==
It should be noted that {{p|Absol}} and {{p|Mawile}} were both available in the wild during Pokémon GO Fest 2019 chicago. [[User:JaxomNC|JaxomNC]] ([[User talk:JaxomNC|talk]]) 04:50, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
:Added a note into the availability section. --[[User:Spriteit|Spriteit]] ([[User talk:Spriteit|talk]]) 09:07, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
::Also, I caught a wild Alolan Exeggutor in my first dozen Pokémon, so unless that was a limited time thing, I don't know why it's under special. [[User:Eragon4|Eragon4]] ([[User talk:Eragon4|talk]]) 14:49, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

== Term Confusion ==

In the "Connectivity" section, the word "transfer" is used extensively; and while this is correct, the same word is also used in the game to describe the process of deleting Pokémon for candy. Sadly, I can't see a way around this, but it really isn't that confusing. [[User:Eragon4|Eragon4]] ([[User talk:Eragon4|talk]]) 00:19, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

== Throwbacks ==

So what about the regional throwback? are we like not going to include that? [[User:Necrozma800|Necrozma800]] ([[User talk:Necrozma800|talk]]) 04:52, 10 May 2020 (UTC)
:Well, there have been so many events that [[List of events in Pokémon GO]] would be where it goes, right?--[[User:KnightGalarie|KnightGalarie]] ([[User talk:KnightGalarie|talk]]) 05:25, 10 May 2020 (UTC)
::Yes but in this article, it names everything that happens in Pokemon go . Shoun't this be included too? [[User:Necrozma800|Necrozma800]] ([[User talk:Necrozma800|talk]]) 23:36, 10 May 2020 (UTC)
:::Does it? That seems like an unfounded generalization--[[User:KnightGalarie|KnightGalarie]] ([[User talk:KnightGalarie|talk]]) 02:15, 11 May 2020 (UTC)
::::Well, it has all the Pokemon in Pokemon Go, all the Pokemon in Raids, every area specific Pokemon in Pokemon Go. Why shouldn't it have all the events that happen in Pokemon Go? [[User:Necrozma800|Necrozma800]] ([[User talk:Necrozma800|talk]]) 16:46, 11 May 2020 (UTC)
:::::Because its massive size is the purpose of spinning it off into the List of events in Pokémon GO page--[[User:KnightGalarie|KnightGalarie]] ([[User talk:KnightGalarie|talk]]) 16:47, 11 May 2020 (UTC)
::::::So you're saying that there's a massive difference between the Pokemon and the events? I say the article should at least mention the fact that there's a ton of articles with a link, right? [[User:Necrozma800|Necrozma800]] ([[User talk:Necrozma800|talk]]) 12:31, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
:::::::Read section 3--[[User:KnightGalarie|KnightGalarie]] ([[User talk:KnightGalarie|talk]]) 00:34, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
::::::::This tells me nothing.[[User:Necrozma800|Necrozma800]] ([[User talk:Necrozma800|talk]]) 06:10, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
::::::::: Section 3 is the [[Pokémon GO#Events|Literally the part of the page]] that links to the list of events. --[[User:Spriteit|Spriteit]] ([[User talk:Spriteit|talk]]) 07:34, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
::::::::::Well no wonder i couldnt really find it, the whle things one sentence with a link! Could you expand it more? [[User:Necrozma800|Necrozma800]] ([[User talk:Necrozma800|talk]]) 15:07, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
:::::::::::You couldn’t find section 3 titled “Events” in a table of contents when you were looking for events?--[[User:KnightGalarie|KnightGalarie]] ([[User talk:KnightGalarie|talk]]) 15:09, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
::::::::::::It was hard to find. I'm kinda new here so I'm kinda comparing this to wikipedia. [[User:Necrozma800|Necrozma800]] ([[User talk:Necrozma800|talk]]) 15:13, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
:::::::::::::Wikipedia behaves the exact same way. Like how recent years in American television have debuted so many programs that the section on the page solely consists of a Main page line to the article listing that year’s television debuts--[[User:KnightGalarie|KnightGalarie]] ([[User talk:KnightGalarie|talk]]) 15:34, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
::::::::::::::Huh. well I want to write in my userpage but i can't because i Have to appearently edit pages and thats gonna be hard since every part is always updated, ya know?[[User:Necrozma800|Necrozma800]] ([[User talk:Necrozma800|talk]]) 15:40, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::And you can end up bringing the updates if you put your heart to it. Like when Remote Raid Passes were revealed, I made the redirect, added them to the Raid Pass page and a passage about them on the COVID-19 pandemic page as it related. You’ll get there, trust me--[[User:KnightGalarie|KnightGalarie]] ([[User talk:KnightGalarie|talk]]) 15:45, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
::::::::::::::::Yeah but I feel like I just don't know where to start. I feel like I know the PokeDex really well but since you guys litterally have every Pokedex entry in there it's hard to edit anything now.....wait You forgot Pokemon Go's entries!...wait i forgot they're just the recent Pokedex entries...Dang it! [[User:Necrozma800|Necrozma800]] ([[User talk:Necrozma800|talk]]) 15:53, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

== Obstagoon and Perrserker ==

They are not going to be in Pokemon Go due to different PokeDexes. [[User:Necrozma800|Necrozma800]] ([[User talk:Necrozma800|talk]]) 02:13, 13 May 2020 (UTC)
:Niantic have stated they’re going to be added and their data was added to the game code in the most recent update. So, yeah, they are. [[User:GloverMist|GloverMist]] ([[User talk:GloverMist|talk]]) 07:45, 13 May 2020 (UTC)
::Then why not have all the evolutions in Pokemon Go. And what generation are they going to be in? Unknown? [[User:Necrozma800|Necrozma800]] ([[User talk:Necrozma800|talk]]) 23:44, 13 May 2020 (UTC)
:::They’ll be the start of the Galar Pokemon integration. Obviously. Come on.--[[User:KnightGalarie|KnightGalarie]] ([[User talk:KnightGalarie|talk]]) 00:06, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
::::Well I know that. But if that's the case, will meltan and Melmetal finallybe in the Alolan Pokedex? [[User:Necrozma800|Necrozma800]] ([[User talk:Necrozma800|talk]]) 06:03, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
:::::What does that have to do with it?[[User:Necrozma800|Necrozma800]] ([[User talk:Necrozma800|talk]]) 15:10, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
::::::Well I'm just saying are they're going to be more Regional Pokedexes now that more evolutions are going to be added? [[User:Necrozma800|Necrozma800]] ([[User talk:Necrozma800|talk]]) 06:31, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
:::::::None of us here are Niantic staff members. We'll have to wait and see. --[[User:Spriteit|Spriteit]] ([[User talk:Spriteit|talk]]) 07:34, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
::::::::Awww....Well are there going to be any other pokemon besides Obstagoon and Perrserker that are going to be in the game? [[User:Necrozma800|Necrozma800]] ([[User talk:Necrozma800|talk]]) 15:10, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
:::::::::Yeah, all Kanto to Hoenn Pokémon are. I think there’s some stragglers from Sinnoh and a good portion of Unova Pokémon still waiting. Kalos and Alola Pokémon still have to come through too. It’d be naive to assume they never come--[[User:KnightGalarie|KnightGalarie]] ([[User talk:KnightGalarie|talk]]) 15:15, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
::::::::::Yeah, but I guess now they're going completly haywire and adding Galarian evolution while not following the pokedex. Guess they're getting them out of the way? But then again why aren't they put all the Galarian forms in with the evolutions, ya know? [[User:Necrozma800|Necrozma800]] ([[User talk:Necrozma800|talk]]) 15:26, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
:::::::::::They added Alolan variants years before the wholly new native species could be added. You’re being overly exaggerating and acting as if they’re not going to do the things you’ve suggested unless you suggest them--[[User:KnightGalarie|KnightGalarie]] ([[User talk:KnightGalarie|talk]]) 15:32, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
::::::::::::Well still I think It's weird they're putting Obstagoon and Perserker despite them being Specifically only gen 8 pokemon. [[User:Necrozma800|Necrozma800]] ([[User talk:Necrozma800|talk]]) 15:37, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
:::::::::::::Except unlike Galarian Slowpoke in the Main series who currently sits standalone until whatever it evolves into is revealed, Obstagoon and Perrserker have already been revealed, so they might as well be made available with their Galarian preevolutions--[[User:KnightGalarie|KnightGalarie]] ([[User talk:KnightGalarie|talk]]) 15:45, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
::::::::::::::Wel what about Galarian Farfetch'd and Sirfetch'd or Galarian Corsola and Cursola? They could technetically be in there too, right? [[User:Necrozma800|Necrozma800]] ([[User talk:Necrozma800|talk]]) 15:48, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::At this point you’re not really listening, you’re just being impatient and anxious--[[User:KnightGalarie|KnightGalarie]] ([[User talk:KnightGalarie|talk]]) 15:49, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
::Niantic adds new Pokémon over time. As another admin stated above, none of us here work at Niantic. Those Pokémon will more than likely be added at a later point in time, please be patient. Thank you. ''[[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen]] [[User talk:Frozen Fennec|Fennec]]'' 15:50, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
:::Well I guess you're right. Hey by the way, Is there a page on here that deals with the mobile game of "Monster Carnival"? [[User:Necrozma800|Necrozma800]] ([[User talk:Necrozma800|talk]]) 15:56, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
::::No. We are a Pokémon wiki, we don't cover non-Pokémon based apps or games unless there is a crossover event with Pokémon. ''[[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen]] [[User talk:Frozen Fennec|Fennec]]'' 16:01, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
:::::And for that matter, no unlicensed stuff that parades itself using actual Pokémon imagery and/or does so without actually having the Pokémon in the game--[[User:KnightGalarie|KnightGalarie]] ([[User talk:KnightGalarie|talk]]) 16:04, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
::::::It kinda does both of that. It's a free to play game that has Pokemon in it and you can train and evolve it. The name is a bit misleading I know but it has Pokémon in it. [[User:Necrozma800|Necrozma800]] ([[User talk:Necrozma800|talk]]) 16:08, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
:::::::So you’re saying it’s unlicensed and you’re only here to attempt to legitimize it by giving it this platform. This is not an advertisement service--[[User:KnightGalarie|KnightGalarie]] ([[User talk:KnightGalarie|talk]]) 16:10, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
::::::::Well I don't know if it's unlicensed, but there is a crossover with pokemon. It's basically a Pokemon game but .....roblox style. I thought you guys would have it since theres Pokémon in it.
:::::::::If it was licensed it would be able to use the Pokémon name. It’s not a crossover, it’s a copyright infringement case--[[User:KnightGalarie|KnightGalarie]] ([[User talk:KnightGalarie|talk]]) 16:18, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
::::::::::Well I can tell you it's not licensed, it uses Pokemon sprites up to 3D models, and its on the app store so is it illegal? [[User:Necrozma800|Necrozma800]] ([[User talk:Necrozma800|talk]]) 16:21, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
:::::::::::Stop trying to give it legitimacy. Are you trying to drive up your edit count by prattling on?--[[User:KnightGalarie|KnightGalarie]] ([[User talk:KnightGalarie|talk]]) 16:23, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
::::::::::::Umm...no I'm just trying to see what I can do on here. T-T [[User:Necrozma800|Necrozma800]] ([[User talk:Necrozma800|talk]]) 16:27, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
:This conversation has gone entirely off-topic from the original question at this point. You both need to stop. Continued arguing on the talk page may lead to you both being temporarily being blocked from being able to edit pages. Please and thank you. ''[[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen]] [[User talk:Frozen Fennec|Fennec]]'' 16:37, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
::I told him to stop, he continued. I did nothing wrong. I am not responsible for Necrozma800’s stubbornness and his decision to change topic-[[User:KnightGalarie|KnightGalarie]] ([[User talk:KnightGalarie|talk]]) 16:42, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
:::You continued responding to him regardless, that counts as arguing. Please just drop it and move on, thanks. ''[[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen]] [[User talk:Frozen Fennec|Fennec]]'' 16:48, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

== Banned Names on Pokemon GO ==

Apparently P. Klang is an inappropriate name on Pokemon Go. I don't know what to do with this info so I'll leave it up to you. [[User:Necrozma800|Necrozma800]] ([[User talk:Necrozma800|talk]]) 22:46, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

== Pokédex Entries from Pokémon GO on Bulbapedia? ==
Should Bulbapedia have a separate area for each Pokémon's Pokédex entries, like in the area where one can see its Pokémon GO stats or up with Pokédex entries from other games? I would think it could be a nice edition to each Pokémon page to have their Pokémon GO Pokédex entry. Gallade User 22:22, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

== Apparently the game's being suspended in Russia. ==

https://twitter.com/NianticLabs/status/1502120716665118725

Is this worth putting in trivia, if not someplace else? [[User:Unowninator|¿¡Unowninator?!]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 16:25, 11 March 2022 (UTC)
:The release section works. [[User:Glik|glik]][[User talk:Glik|glak]] 17:20, 11 March 2022 (UTC)
::Alright then, thanks. [[User:Unowninator|¿¡Unowninator?!]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 18:03, 11 March 2022 (UTC)

== Load screens broken pictures ==

The load screens sections have broken pictures for the last 14 or so versions, starting with the Christmas of 2019 load screen. --[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 18:58, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

== Routes ==

since last week Pokémon GO implemented a new '''Gameplay''' feature called '''Routes''', we need to add that mechanic into the article, a'''nd since a year ago all the load screens of are broken starting with Christmas of 2019.''' --[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 18:49, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

Talk:History of the Pokémon world

2023-06-24T09:49:24Z

Neos: /* Pokémon Legends Arcues */ new section

==Shaping this article==
I think this article needs to be redesigned... "history" is a bit of a general term - there are differences between the histories in different parts on the cannon (games, anime and different manga series have contradicted each other several times in the past). We need to make rules to decide what goes in and what doesn't...--[[User:ElectAbuzzzz|ElectAbuzzzz]] 12:37, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

It may not even be possible to write such an article since there is not much historical information, not to mention a good part of it is legend. (Then again, in this world it seems legends are generally true.) - [[User:Zhen Lin|振霖]][[User talk:Zhen Lin|T]] 15:17, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
:I think it's more accurate to say that the Pokemon that ''appear'' in legend are true. There's no solid evidence to say that the Sinnoh Myths aren't simply that: Myth. I feel that until Nintendo officially confirms that Arceus did in fact create the Universe, or any other legend, such as Regigigas moving the continents, we should treat them purely as myth and/or theory, and not include them with articles dealing with fact, such as this Timeline.--[[User:Dual|Dual]] 03:11, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

The timeline must have another sub article--[[User:Joshuamanimtim2|Snorlax]] 10:30, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Should the spinoff games (Colosseum, XD, Ranger, Snap...) fit in anywhere? There's not a lot of evidence linking those to the handheld games... is there any way to put them in? --[[User:Kayube|Kayube]] 04:09, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
:I doubt it. There is no indication that any events in the non-handheld games are canon to the basic storyline, so there's no real point to including it here. On another note, it's my personal opinion that this needs to be moved to a different article, because there isn't much of the history that has been confirmed; most of it, as has been mentioned, is legend and theory. Regardless, I'm going to try to clean this up a bit and Wikify it some. [[User:Vekter|Vekter]] 15:40, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
::Well, the Pokemon Ranger games seem to actually reference events from the games (and also is the reason why {{p|Manaphy}} even exists in the main games.) If we aren't going to count the Ranger games are canon to the basic storyline, then we shouldn't count Manaphy as canon, either, since that's the only EVENT pokemon in the main series that debuted in a side game/spinoff game rather than in the main game series. Besides, since we can't transfer any prior gen pokemon onto the R/S/E/FR/LG game packs, Pokemon Colosseum is currently the only legit way to even ACQUIRE Celebi (though this is only in the Japanese version), and it (as well as it's sequel, Gale of darkness) is also the only OTHER legit way to acquire Ho-Oh and Lugia if you didn't get the Mystic tickets in the Emerald/FR/LG versions. now, for games like Mystery dungeon, yes, those SHOULDN'T be counted as canon in there, since that's an Alt universe. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 13:04, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
:::What should NOT be considered canon is all this fan-made BS about Pokemon populations decreasing, when the unobtainables came into being, how Doduo/Dodrio came to have multiple heads, etc. -- [[User:Umbee|Umbee]] 22:01, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
::::Do you think the "Contemporary History" should be moved to a new article called "Timeline of events in the games"? This article is supposed to be about how the Pokémon Universe developed, not what happened in it afterwards.

== Can anyone state where it was said that the S.S. Tidal was created in the 1990s? ==

I need to know because the article said it was created in that time period, and yet I don't really recall the games even stating that it was created in the 1990s (In fact, I don't even recall it even mentioning the date of when it was created at all).
:Don't forget to sign your comment with four tildes <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>. On to the subject i agree there is no mention of when it was built nor is there mention of its age and assume its age from the release date. So Any suggestions on what to do with it? [[User:Pterodactal|Pterodactal]] 07:00, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
::I seem to recall the ship was under construction during the journey portion of [[Pokémon Ruby and Sapphire|R/S/]][[Pokémon Emerald|E]]. [[User:Bardock|Bar]][[User_Talk:Bardock|dock]] 12:33, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

I created it. Sorry. But we could leave it as it is. [[User:Joshuamanimtim2|K.J.Boring]] 11:31, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

== Generation III ==

It should be sometime BEFORE Generation II and AFTER Generation I because Generation II states that STEEL is a NEWLY discovered type, and Generation III has steel types... <sc>'''[[User:Optimus35|Agent]] [[User talk:Optimus35|#448]]'''</sc> <sc>[http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?limit=50&title=Special%3AContributions&contribs=user&target=Optimus35&namespace=0&year=&month=-1 ☆] | [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZPMmUEHFIU ♥]</sc> This will put you off eating for life! 12:30, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
:Here's how the Generations go in chronological order (This isn't merely fanon, it is supported by evidence from the various canons.)

Generation I→Generation III→→→Generation II→Generation IV

→=short time in betweeen →→→=long time in between

[[User:Shiny Noctowl|Shiny]][[User talk:Shiny Noctowl|?]][[Special:Contributions/Shiny Noctowl|!]] 13:22, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
:: This really puzzles me - I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just confused by this: how exactly are Generations in that order? I don't even understand how Generations I and II could have their timelines connected with III and IV... Ie: what is the canonical proof for this? (not because I'd doubt it - rather I'd love to know it, please) [[User:Sipulichu|Sipulichu]] 20:51, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

:I don't think that Steel is newly DISCOVERED type. It's just newly classified type out of those we actually had (the Steel Pokémon could be identified as Rock Pokémon before). The text in game may be mistranslated, since American Pokémon media loves to give us a shit about "new" Pokémon. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 13:26, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

== Moon Stone ==

What about "The Moon Stone"?
Of [[EP006|Clefairy and the Moon Stone]]:

"Seymour theorizes this is because both '''the Pokémon came from outer space''', and '''the Moon Stone was their spacecraft''' - which means the Stone belongs to the Pokémon, and the humans must leave it alone."

[[User:Mateussf|Mateussf]] 21:28, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

That was only in the animé. As far as I know, the whole "Pokémon came from outer-space" thing was never mentioned in any game.--[[User:Pokencyclopedia|Pokencyclopedia]] 23:59, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Except for MAYBE Deoxys and the Clefairy family

~~Weedle McHairybug~~

How about Jirachi? Comet=Outer Space --'''[[User:Theryguy512|Theryguy]][[User talk:Theryguy512|5]][[User:Theryguy512/Contribution Page|1]][[User:Theryguy512/Similarities|2]]''' 18:52, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

thanks for pointing him out, Theryguy512.
~~Weedle McHairybug~~

IIRC there is an NPC in the Space Center that mentions the theory in Generation III. I believe I've also seen this mentioned in other games, though I may be mistaken. [[User:Vekter|Vekter]] 15:43, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

:Lunatone and Solrock appearantly came from outer space as well. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 14:40, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

The theory is explicitly stated by a Lass outside of Brock's gym in Gen. I and Gen. III. That Clefairy are aliens. Deoxys is also stated to be an alien virus that came to Earth on a meteorite. Kyurem was believed to be an alien before his status as Reshiram and Zekrom's original body was discovered. Solrock and Lunatone are also stated to be extraterrestrials and Elgyem and Beheeyem are based off of the 1949 Roswell, New Mexico incident so even though it's never stated outright, they're aliens as well. I personally think that the arrival of Pokémon from outer space should be included. --[[User:BlackButterfree|BlackButterfree]] ([[User talk:BlackButterfree|talk]]) 04:53, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

== Where did the bird trio go? Sinnoh. ==

Look at this, the legendary bird trio ( Articuno, Zapdos, Moltres ) is revealed to roam Sinnoh in Pokémon Platnum. These three, are missing in the GSC games (they can't be found in Kanto). So, they might have flown to Sinnoh. [[User:Joshuamanimtim2|K.J.Boring]] 04:55, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
:Maybe if someone actually says that in-game. Otherwise, it's speculation.--[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 05:03, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
:::No one says that those are the same birds though. The Frontier brains afterall have legendary birds aswell.
Forgot to sign name--[[User:Outrage DD|Outrage DD]] 23:26, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
::::In the anime as well, it's shown that there are multiple versions of legendaries (even in the same frame, a mother and baby Lugia come to mind). ←{'''[[User:Berrymaster|Berrymaster]]|[[User_talk:Berrymaster|Talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Berrymaster|Contrib]]'''}→ 23:28, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

==Clean-Up, Please?==

Going through this article, all I see is fan speculation and unusual conclusions. I for one would like to see some evidence of these claims, as many of them see totally made-up. For example: What connection to Kyogre and Manaphy have? And "herds" of Latios and Latias? As far as I remember, it's one for each player. I wouldn't say there were "herds" of Mewtwo, would you?
[[User:Me, Hurray!|Me, Hurray!]] 03:05, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

:Actually, the "Herds" of Latios and Latias was stated in the Pokedex Entries of Latios and Latias. Don't believe me? Try looking at the pokedex portion of their article. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 03:12, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
::[[Kyogre]] and [[Manaphy]] were both in Ranger of The Sea Temple ( i think thats what it was called)[[User:DCM|DCM]][[User talk:DCM|((Shut the **** up]][[Special:Contributions/DCM|Spy on My Edits))]]
::Mewtwo is the only successful clone (attempted by humans) of a Pokémon as far as we know. And we're 100% certain that he's the only Mewtwo out there. [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|R.A. Hunter B.]] 03:25, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
::And in the case of the games, it's also the only cloned pokemon, Period [even then, lab notes hinted that it wasn't even a clone {the whole "Mew Gave Birth" thing comes to mind}.] [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 00:17, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
:: Okay, okay, but I still think these should be referenced in the article. It is still true that most of the article is mere specualtion, however. [[User:Me, Hurray!|Me, Hurray!]] 04:32, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
:::Actually, I doubt that half of it is speculation. Most of it is from the games. Yeah, some of it is guessing for the dates, but that is why they have a large number of years separating the different sections, as the games don't give specific dates, except for that Arceus created the Pokémon universe. [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|R.A. Hunter B.]] 17:15, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
:::: Because everything mentioned in the games is meant to be taken literally. Yes. I see it now. Silly me.[[User:Me, Hurray!|Me, Hurray!]] 20:41, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
Sorry. I didn't mean for it to seem like that. When things are typed, they always sound different in the mind of somebody else. [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|R.A. Hunter B.]] 00:16, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
:: I'm sorry, I strayed away from the point. My only problem is that there is no evidence and there are no citations in the artical. It's alright pointing things out here in the talk page, but if there's no evidence in the artical itself then I don't think it meets certain standards. I'm really just requesting evidence.
:::We can't really cite the games, which is why there aren't any citations at the moment. [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|R.A. Hunter B.]] 21:22, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
::::You can ''sorta'' cite the games. Who to talk to and where to see what's said. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 04:14, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
:::::True. But I think the citing that Me, Hurray is talking about is links and stuff. Or at least very specific descriptions of where they come from. Links we can't do for games, but yeah, I guess it would take some time, but we could find all of the people who tell us the random info. [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|R.A. Hunter B.]] 04:20, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
:::::: Mentioning who gives the information in-game sounds like a satasfactory measure to me. at least then the information can be varified and proven correct. [[User:Me, Hurray!|Me, Hurray!]] 16:46, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

==Rotom==

it is never said that Rotom was made in the 70's, infact I taught [[Pluto]] discovered it in the 50's, so I think we should leave it blank until Platinum's out in english [[User:Ultamatecharizard|Ultamate]][[User Talk:Ultamatecharizard|Charizard]] 16:49, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
:I only knew he discovered it. In his youth. I didn't know there was a date involved. [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|R.A. Hunter B.]] 22:25, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
::I still don't get who put that in, I mean it would be diffrent it was ever said but I looked Rotom's page and it didn't say anything [[User:Ultamatecharizard|Ultamate]][[User Talk:Ultamatecharizard|Charizard]]
:::All you have to do is go through the editing history. [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|R.A. Hunter B.]] 20:31, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

==Multiple Mew!?==
Alright, who said that Mew were plentiful soon after the creation of the Pokémon world? And how does anyone know that [[Mew (Lucario and the Mystery of Mew)|this Mew]] is different from [[Mew (Mewtwo Strikes Back)|that Mew]]? It could just be a different voice actor. [[User:Palkiajosh|パルキアJosh]] 23:23, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
*Ok, about the reason why Mew from Mewtwo Strikes Back being different from the Mew from Lucario and the Mystery of Mew, it's for a couple of reasons. Yes, the voice doesn't necessarily mean much, however, MSB's Mew's Japanese VA was definitely in the 8th Movie as he (she? I don't really know the VA's gender) was the one who voiced Sir Aaron in that Movie. I mean, why would they give Mew a different VA (assuming that it IS the same one) if it's original VA is still very much available? Plus, the one from Movie 1 was very far from Kanto, and If this were the same mew, it would spend most of it's time inside of a Lake/Jungle than in a deciduous forest with a [[Tree of Beginning|Tree-like Rock formation]], not to mention that MSB's Mew lives a considerably far distance from Kanto, or heck, any of the regions that have been seen thus far, while LatMoM's Mew was located, if not in Kanto, then just barely beyond the border. As for the multiple parts, I'm guessing the fossilized remains of a Mew, as well as it being a genetic ancestor to every pokemon seems to answer that question.) [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 23:36, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
Don't forget that the first Mew was seen to be sleeping underwater, possibly for a long time, untill Mewtwo unleashed his power on the world, creating storms and kidnapping the Nurse Joy of the city. The most recent Mew, was seen to have been connected to the Tree of Beginning, so it should be assumed Mew can't be away from it for long periods of time (longer than seen in the movie). And it and the Tree are so closely connected, when Mew would be damaged in the first movie, the Tree would also sustain damage. And the first Mew is also living in the Johto area, not Kanto. [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|R.A. Hunter B.]] 21:54, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
Mew is the ancestor of all life. A being cannot breed with itself. Thus-multiple Mews-Mtn_Otter

== Lugia did what? ==

Who ever said Lugia actually created the 3 birds? just because it's the master trio doesn't mean it created them. --'''[[User:InuMimi|いぬ]][[User talk:InuMimi|みみ]]''' 23:42, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
:Well........now thats up to interpretation. I say no[[User:DCM|DCM]][[User talk:DCM|((曲奇饼妖怪]][[Special:Contributions/DCM|Spy on My Edits))]]
::I agree. It doesn't say anywhere that he created them. It just says that a Lugia has the power to destroy (Pokédex entries) or save the world (movie), depending on the situation. It only has control over the birds and their powers, and I think they only obey him out of respect for a higher being. [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|R.A. Hunter B.]] 16:13, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

== Cleanup! ==

This article is really very well done as it sums up everything so those supposed continuity errors are straingtened out (such as the "Which came first? Arceus or Mew?" paradox). But I really think it needs a cleanup. All it has are random dot points on Pokemon that aren't related. Clean it up!
Also, fan assumptions should be excluded! It's annoying to see speculation assumed as fact. [[User:Bttsstewart|Bttsstewart]] 15:30, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
:Well, we've been trying to do that for a while. And if you want it cleaned up, then don't just tell people to do it. You need to do something too. [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|R.A. Hunter B.]] 16:10, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
::There really isn't a paradox concerning Arceus and Mew. It is ''believed'' (according to Dex entries) that Mew is the ancestor of Pokémon, but it clearly states in the DPPt origin story that Arceus was born before every other Pokémon (before the universem even). Arceus created Mew, ta-dah! And like [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|R.A. Hunter B.]] said, you can't just tell people to do things you want done. [[User:LordArceus|'''Lord''']][[User talk:LordArceus|'''Arc''']][[Special:Contributions/LordArceus|'''eus''']] 16:12, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
I've had an interesting theory, which could solve the Arceus/Mew paradox. Arceus may have created the universe, but what if Mew came around before the universe was created, and Arceus sort of descended from it? Also, Mew is the ANSCESTOR of all Pokémon, not necassarily their creator. So if Arceus created Dialga and Palkia and the Lake Trio, then they are still anscestors of Mew, because Arceus is.

Please remember to sign comments. I realise that there's no Mew/Arceus paradox, not really. I just mean this article can definitively solve the arguing. (I've seen A LOT of arguing on the subject.) [[User:Bttsstewart|Bttsstewart]] 14:33, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

To answer above from Rocket Admin Hunter Blade & LordArceus): I didn't think I was 'qualified' enough to contribute to the cleanup. I though you sort of had to be in the webiste 'inner ring'. Haha. I guess that's silly. I've just had a look and I think it's fine as it is. It's just the allignment of the dot points that's a little dodgy. [[User:Bttsstewart|Bttsstewart]] 14:42, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
:The only "qualification" you need, is the ability to not get carried away and screw everything up. Other than that, you should be able to do a lot, such as grammar mistakes, spelling, punctuation, and moving text to the correct sections. [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|R.A. Hunter B.]] 22:11, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

== Celebi, Jirachi and Shaymin ==

Where did the "theory" come around supposing that Celebi, Jirachi and Shaymin were all born at the same time, and after the invention of the Unown writing system? There's no evidence to support this, so why even include it? [[User:Taromon777|Taromon777]] 22:55, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

== Pictures ==

I think it would improve this article a great deal of some pictures were included. It would give people more of an idea of what they were reading about. If anyone has any pictures of ancient Sinnoh region tapestries, or anything similar, be sure to add it to the article! [[User:Taromon777|Taromon777]] 22:55, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

== Kyogre Problem ==

How could Kyogre have expanded the sea with the help of Manaphy and Lugia when it went to sleep millions of years before, and wasn't woken up again until the events of Generation III? I think that, considering the fact that the Pokémon world is very similar to our own, the sea was probably created the same way that Earth's sea was, and that the theory of it being created by Pokémon is simply a legend. There is definately no archaelogical evidence that it was expanded by Pokémon! Maybe, until we are certain, we shouldn't mention how the sea was created like it is fact. [[User:Taromon777|Taromon777]] 22:55, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
:Please sign your edits. [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|R.A. Hunter B.]] 19:39, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
::This is all based off Dex entries and such. Kyogre created the oceans, not Manaphy or Lugia[[User:DCM|DCM]][[User talk:DCM|((曲奇饼妖怪]][[Special:Contributions/DCM|Spy on My Edits))]]

==Writing System==
The article claims that the first writing system was created 1500 years before Generation 1. If this is based on present time, the first writing system was created in 500 AD. I haven't done any research yet, but I'm just noting that in our world, writing was created in about 2500 BC (Egyptians). This would be 4500 years before the present. [[User:Firemaker|Firemaker]] 23:29, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
Also the information about the pokemon (Mamoswine, Farfetch'd, Magikarp); is that true? [[User:Firemaker|Firemaker]] 23:29, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
:Writing first came about around 3400-3000 BC. It's still disputed wether Egypt or Mesopotamia had the oldest writing system. And for your second question, yes. Mamoswine are based off of woolly mammoths, so their history is almost the same as in our world. Farfetch'd have been mentioned somewhere, for their history, but I can't remember. And then Magikarp are the easiest. Many of their TCG Pokédex info boxes talk about it. [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|R.A. Hunter B.]] 23:48, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

I'm also curious about what citations there are for when the writing system was created, as I can't find any in-game dialogue referencing that myself. Does anyone know where that information came from? I wonder whether said dialogue might have actually been in reference to language in Kanto/Johto/Hoenn/Sinnoh specifically, rather than the entire world, as Japan adopted the Chinese writing system as its first ever writing system in 500 CE. But without the source text from the game, I can't really make that determination. [[User:Chigauchigau|Chigauchigau]] ([[User talk:Chigauchigau|talk]]) 06:56, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

== Gigas? ==

Didn't IT make the three, not humans? '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 08:16, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
:It says that? I haven't been paying attention then... They came around naturally, so nobody really created them, not even Regigigas. Although Platinum DOES say he did, the problem is that the Pt. Dex entry goes against what the Gen. III Dex entries say. [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|R.A. Hunter B.]] 18:48, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
::I think it says in the Gen III Pokédex entries that humans created the first three Regis. Regigigas, on the other hand, came into being naturally, and helped to shape the continents. That's what I always though anyway. [[User:Taromon777|Taromon777]] 19:55, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
:::I read that Gigas did the continents, but it became too strong so humans made the Regis and used them as keys to seal it away. Of course, that may have come from this site.... — [[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|THE TROM]] — 08:23, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

::::That's the thing... most of the stuff on Bulba is from other things here... but in this case, it's hard to decide. Because how can it control the Regis if they were made by humans? Either mind control because they're so similar, or the humans made three original Regis, and then Gigas made more. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 23:16, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
:::I'm not seeing where in the Gen III Pokedex entries it says that humans created them... Registeel and Regirock's say that humans sealed them away, but have nothing that I can see about humans creating them. Unless I am misreading horribly, that part of the timeline needs to be changed. - [[User:C.Olimar788|C.Olimar788]] 21:52, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
:::The Pokedexes definitely don't say that humans made the Regi.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 21:26, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

== Prehistory and Recent History ==

I personally think this article needs to be either fixed up, deleted, or at least protected, especially the Prehistory and Recent History sections. I mean, at least part of those sections are true, but the rest of it is rubbish. Who ever said the Regis were made in their respective ages? Part of it has nothing to do with Pokémon: why is Apollo 11 even in here? I just want your opinion. [[User:Leafstorm151|Leafstorm151]] 18:26, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

:Because. The Pokémon world has some things tied in with ours. And in the Gen I games and their remakes, a guy talks about buying a color TV just to see Neil Armstrong land on the moon. And the Regis is most likely speculation, but at the same time not. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 19:02, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
::Regis were made by Gigas then Gigas was sealed and the Regis got exported to Hoenn to keep them away. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 00:50, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

== What about Damos? ==

It is stated that {{p|Arceus}} "FIRST" fall into never ending sleep BEFORE the first humans appeared ehh...but in the case of Movie12 Arceus meets Damos, a human, what about that?.....I mean that the first humans appeared after Arceus fall into never ending sleep then....i think we should change that section..."[[Sceptile (Pokémon)|☆]][[User:AngelGuardian|Angel]][[User talk:AngelGuardian|Guardian]][[Brendan (game)|☆]]" 07:33, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
:Speculation=no. Until we see movie 12 nothing gets added.--[[User:RexRacer|'''Rex]][[User talk:RexRacer|Racer''']] 07:35, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

So you mean that whole story of Movie12, of Damos or whatever happens was all because of manga? i mean you get all the information on manga?"[[Sceptile (Pokémon)|☆]][[User:AngelGuardian|Angel]][[User talk:AngelGuardian|Guardian]][[Brendan (game)|☆]]" 07:40, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
:Until Movie 12 gets released there can still be doubts. Just wait. I'm sure everything will be explained in time. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 07:44, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Arceus, as the creator of the space-time continuum, could logically travel through time in a manner similar it Celibi or Dialga. Also Arceus may have created clones of itself to manage the world while it is asleep.-Mtn_otter

== Whats with the Humans land on the moon ==

Is this Just for fun, because it has no relation with pokemon at all... ---> [[User:223david|'''223''']][[Special:Contributions/223david|☆]][[User talk:223david|'''Dåv]d''']]''' 12:29, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

:If you've EVER played R/B/Y, or FRLG, you'd know. An old guy in the [[Pewter Museum of Science]] mentions getting a color TV just for that moment. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 16:24, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

::oh.... never played anything other than gen 4 :P ---> [[User:223david|'''223''']][[Special:Contributions/223david|☆]][[User talk:223david|'''Dåv]d''']]''' 02:30, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

:::Well then, now you know. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 02:31, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

== Pictures! ==

I just added some pictures to the article, relevant to each era in the history of the Pokémon World. It makes it look a lot more interesting, don't you think? [[User:Taromon777|Taromon777]] 17:58, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

== Leaf ==

Shouldn't we remove Leaf from the article? HG/SS proves that Red's story is the canon one, and Leaf doesn't exist in Red's continuity because she never appeared during his quest. - [[User:Crystal Master|Crystal Master]]

:Absolutely not, unless we also remove {{ga|Kris}} due to non-interaction with {{ga|Gold}} in {{v2|Crystal}}. And we're not removing Kris. Just because Leaf doesn't appear in {{2v2|HeartGold|SoulSilver}} doesn't mean we should treat Leaf as if she never existed. --[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 20:04, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

::I left Kris there just in case that for whatever reason you consider Pokémon Crystal to be canon rather than the remakes (which would still mean the Leaf isn't part of continuity).
::And even if you're going to assume that Leaf existed somewhere, the article is still wrong because she can't have had the same story she had in FR/LG. That would mean that both Red and Leaf had the same mom, the same house, the same rival and the same events within the same continuity, which makes no sense. If she was part of continuity, she would have a different role from Red's, like May and Dawn had in Brendan and Lucas' respective stories. Moreover, the article states that she defeated Green/Blue in the Pokémon League and became the new champion, which can't have happened, considering that Blue/Green states in HG/SS that the trainer who defeated him shortly after he became champion was Red, not Leaf.
::Lastly, the article should be about writing what we know that happened, not what might have happened. We know that Red's story is canon and Leaf's isn't, as they can't both happen in the same continuity. Therefore, we know that Leaf never appeared in continuity. That there's a Leaf somewhere in the established continuity is unfounded speculation, no matter how much some people want her to be part of it. - [[User:Crystal Master|Crystal Master]]

:::There are absolutely no acceptable grounds in removing all references to Leaf from the article. By removing parts from the article, you're trying to imply Leaf never existed to begin with, and for that to be true, FireRed/LeafGreen would have to have had only a male player character. Either that or there would have to have been no FireRed/LeafGreen (and if that were to be the case, there would be no HeartGold/SoulSilver either).

:::Those parts from the article you're trying to have removed in no way imply Leaf exists in HeartGold/SoulSilver; to have any area of the article imply any involvement from Leaf in HeartGold/SoulSilver, Leaf would have to be mentioned in one of the sections further below, and last I saw, there weren't any such mentions.

:::In conclusion: Leaf exists, and she always will. The fact HeartGold/SoulSilver doesn't mention her does not change that. Where Leaf is already mentioned, she should be. Where Leaf shouldn't be mentioned, she's already not. Trying to erase all traces of her existence from the article is akin to vandalism. --[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 23:58, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

::::Oh, ok. So you weren't saying that there was a Leaf somewhere in the HG/SS timeline. My bad.
::::Anyway, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this article about the timeline of the Pokémon world? Isn't it about making a recollection of the canonical events in the established continuity and making it the less ambiguous possible (ie: saying that "Brendan/May" became the Hoenn champion only because we don't have confirmation about which story is the canonical one, which is different from the case in FR/LG)?
::::Also, I thought that the most recent games that rewrite history take priority over the older ones. In the RSE section we say that the player calmed down Groudon and Kyogre with Rayquaza's help (as depicted in Emerald), not that s/he "stopped Groudon/Kyogre" (as depicted in Ruby and Sapphire respectively), because we use the most recent rewrite of the RSE story, Emerald, as canon. Likewise, shouldn't the GS remakes, which established that Red's story happened in the timeline but Leaf's didn't, take priority over FR/LG (as HG/SS are the most recent games)?
::::Edit: I'm not saying that Leaf doesn't exist. I'm saying that she doesn't exist in the continuity established by the overall timeline (if you believe HGSS or GSC), which I think this article is supposed to be about. - [[User:Crystal Master|Crystal Master]]

Perhaps instead of rewording the article to not mention Leaf, we reword the Gen III section to be ambiguous as to it's version:
:"After defeating Hoenn's eight Gym Leaders and, with the help of Steven and Wallace, calming Groudon and/or Kyogre after they are awakened by Team Magma/Team Aqua, respectively, he/she...."
AFAIK, Platinum's story is different from Pearl and Diamond, yet no mention of Giratina is made. Just keep the version ambiguous. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 03:07, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

:Drop me some drafts and I might consider it. I'd really want the text to securely take all player bases into consideration yet not allow possible relentless editing to try to make it look like one player base never existed in the canon. --[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 03:19, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
::There's a draft right there, just replace the one sentence. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 03:24, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

== Protection?! ==

Thanks a lot! I've been working really hard on improving this article over the last few months and now it's been protected! What is the reasoning behind this? --[[User:Taromon777|'''''Taromon777''''']] '' 20:21, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

:Ever think about [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=History_of_the_Pok%C3%A9mon_world&action=history checking]? '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 22:25, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
::Page now unlocked as both parties in the edit war reached a truce. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 22:27, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
:::Yay, I can edit again now, thanks! Sorry if I came across a bit impolite before. --[[User:Taromon777|'''''Taromon777''''']] '' 10:24, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

== Colosseum and XD ==

how do we know it takes place 2 years after Gen 2 and 4?--'''[[User:Midnight Blue|Midnight]] [[User talk:Midnight Blue|''Blue'']]''' 18:33, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
:Not quite. According to the page, Colosseum takes place sometime between Generation I/III and II/IV, which makes sense, and then XD ''is'' supposed to be set quite a few years from Colosseum, although I don't know how we got "two years after Gen IV" specifically. [[User:Zesty Cactus|'''Zesty''']][[User talk:Zesty Cactus|'''Cactus''']] 19:04, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
Ok, thanx. I just thought someone just put that there without proof.--'''[[User:Midnight Blue|Midnight]] [[User talk:Midnight Blue|''Blue'']]''' 19:16, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

I know this is a VERY old topic, but I've been theorizing for a while that Ranger 1 and XD Take place between Gens 3 and 4, 3 Years after FRLG, and that Colosseum takes place 2 years before FRLG, and would like to submit this theory for consideration. --[[User:Hwrdjacob|Hwrdjacob]] ([[User talk:Hwrdjacob|talk]]) 05:24, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

For reference, I find it most likely that this ACII timeline is how it plays out: Colo.-(2 Years)->FRLG-(about a month)->Emerald/BoxR+S-(3 Years)->XD-(About 2 months or so)->HGSS-(At LEAST a month, but no more than a year)->Platinum/MyPokemonRanch/BattleRevolution-(Unknown timespan)->Black/White-(Two Years)->Black2/White2/DreamRadar-(A few months to a few years)->X/Y/Bank Since Im not all that knowlegable about Ranger, but it's enough to put Ranger1 around the time of XD and SoA/GS somewhere in Gen 4--[[User:Hwrdjacob|Hwrdjacob]] ([[User talk:Hwrdjacob|talk]]) 05:40, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

== Can anyone tell me how is it possible for Generation II and IV happened at the same time? ==
Its not possible because Jasmine is in the Sinnoh Region right?--[[User:Jason avelino|Jason avelino]] 10:42, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

:People just say that because they believe the odd-numbered generations take place at the same time. Yet there's zero proof of even that--no timeframes are ever stated for when the games that take place in either [[Hoenn]] or [[Sinnoh]] take place. For all we know, the [[Generation III]] Hoenn games takes place five years after [[Generation II]] and the [[Generation IV]] Sinnoh games take place 10 years further down the road, and yet the technology of their respective platforms allows them to trade freely with the remakes in their generation that do take place at the same time as their originals (addtionally, in Hoenn's case, it can even freely trade with two console games that take place years apart). Besides, where was it stated that the [[red Gyarados]] in the {{2v2|Diamond|Pearl}} intro is the one from the [[Lake of Rage]]? Right, nowhere. Yet people are using such a baseless assumption as evidence of the even-numbered generations taking place at or around the same time.

:The only times timeframes between two games are ever stated are the case between [[Generation I]] and [[Generation II]] being three years apart, and {{pkmn|Colosseum}} and {{pkmn|XD: Gale of Darkness}} being five years apart. The fact that both of the latter are compatible with all handheld Generation III games just goes to show that we don't know when the Hoenn and Sinnoh games take place, and that all assumptions of them taking place at the same time as the remakes in their repsective generations are baseless and shouldn't be trusted. --[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 13:02, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

Ok thanks for answering my question...--[[User:Jason avelino|Jason avelino]] 05:35, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
:Timeframe for Sinnoh, by the way. Rowan returned from Kanto after four years of study with Oak. Red Gyarados specials were still airing on TV. Sinnoh's either during or shortly after the story of Johto. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 06:42, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

:Not necessarily. The Red Gyarados report had Mount Coronet in the background. That means the Red Gyarados couldn't have been in Johto. [[User:Edge578|Edge578]] 18:46, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

== Rayquaza from MINERALS? ==

Where the heck is this from? None of the Pokedexes mention it, and well, there aren't minerals in the ozone layer. They'd be much, much too heavy. Even if a volcano erupts and sprays ash (not minerals) into the air, it doesn't reach the ozone layer.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 21:28, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

== Regis Created By Humans? ==
Where does it say that the Regis were made by man? Or that they were made in the three eras (except for Regice)? In fact, Registeel is said to be "tens of thousands" of years old, according to the Pokedex, whereas the Iron Age was just 3,000 years ago. [[User:Plasma|Plasma]] 20:06, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

==Generation V==
Due to the fact that Cynthia and Looker mention Lucas/Dawn in passing, it can be safely assumed that Generation V takes place around the same time as XD. [[User:TorchicBlaziken|TorchicBlaziken]] ([[User_talk:TorchicBlaziken|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/TorchicBlaziken|edits]]) 01:11, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
:Not necessarily. It can be assumed to take place after Platinum, but we have no idea exactly how long after. --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] 12:06, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
Can we edit the Generation IV timeline by shifting the focus to Platinum's storyline rather than Diamond/Pearl with Platinum in parentheses? I believe Cynthia says something about the trainer who battled Giratina, which isn't in the DP Storyline. [[User:Pocketfanmk|Pocketfanmk]] 17:20, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
:I agree with pocketfanmk, considering that Platinum is the only game all three of the trio members and that the game is more detailed in all senses. As for Generation V... That's a tough one. [[User:Smashbrother101|Smashbrother101]] 00:24, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
: It's true. Because of the Gen V references we can assume that the Platinum Story is the canonical one, instead of the DP Story.line
About the time of each generation(like what he said:I-III--II-IV) is this because of the remakes of red and blue,
in Gen III and gold and silver, in Gen IV?. If it is, and if they will make a remake of ruby and sapphire in Gen V, then shouldn't it be I-III-V---II-IV? [[User:Phoenixon|Phoenixon]] 15:16, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

== More than one Regigigas? ==

''"Landmasses such as Mt. Coronet are created, and '''Regigigas move''' the continents, forming the regions,"''

Grammar suggests more than one, is this true or did someone make a typo?--[[User:Burgundy|Burg]][[User talk: Burgundy|undy]] 06:40, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
:I don't think it is suggesting that there were more than one. But I could be wrong. :/--[[User:Han Ji-Wan|Han Ji-Wan]] 07:12, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
::Well there are [[M11|multiple Regigigas]] [[DP129|in the anime]], so it may not be an error. '''X'''[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']]'''X''' 11:17, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
:::That bit seems fine, but the tense of that whole section is weird. Shouldn't it be in past tense? --[[User:Jda95|jda95]] 12:41, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
::::If there is only one Regigigas, it would be "''Regigigas moves''"--[[User:Burgundy|Burg]][[User talk: Burgundy|undy]] 16:17, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

== Basis of article ==

Is this article based on the games or the anime? --[[User:Fimbulwinter2012|☆'''FiMbUlWiNtEr2O|2'''☆]] 04:15, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
:I'm assuming a combination of both.. Why? --[[User:Han Ji-Wan|Han Ji-Wan]] 04:51, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
::The article says that it is based on the canon and the games, but it seems like a lot is from the movies. Aren't the movies part of the anime? And also there is a separate timeline for the anime. --[[User:Fimbulwinter2012|☆'''FiMbUlWiNtEr2O|2'''☆]] 22:34, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

== Article is Fan Speculation ==

Shouldn't the article be marked with that Togepi tag saying that this is only speculation?[[User:Jazama|Jazama]] 03:55, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
:And why should it? You need to give a real reason why [[User:Ataro|Ataro]] 04:00, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
:There are various things in there that are not officially confirmed. It is never officially said when the GameCube or Hoenn Games take place. All that is said is that Generation II takes place three years after Generation I, XD is five years after Colesseum, Generation IV is probably set around II, and that V takes place after II and IV. Until a timeline is ever given out, this is just speculation.[[User:Jazama|Jazama]] 05:59, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
::One more thing, the Pokedex is notoriously unreliable and myths are, by definition, religious stories, not accurate tales of history.[[User:Jazama|Jazama]] 06:22, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
After it says, "This information is based primarily on the mythology of both the Hoenn and Sinnoh regions," maybe there should be another sentence explaining that the myths are not necessarily true.[[User:Bulbamelia|Bulbamelia]] 01:29, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

== Missing Unova Details ==

the following details are missing in the list. however, it is difficult to place them into the timeline. should we mention somewhere that the placement is unknown? missing details:founding of unova region, dragon split into reshirm and zekrom, kyurem came down in a meteor, muskteer trio save pokemon during middle age, thundros and tornados fighting and landros calming them down. there should be more missing though - [[User:Pokeant|Pokeant]] 17:54, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

Shouldn't it also be noted that sometime between gens IV and V, Ghetsis somehow acquired the Adamant, Lustrous and Griseous orbs? [[User:Wind|Wind]] 21:19, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

And I think, the construction of the Marvelous Bridge? Village Bridge? "[[Arceus (Pokémon)|☆]][[User:AngelGuardian|Angel]][[User talk:AngelGuardian|Guardian]][[Arceus: To A Conquering Space-Time|☆]]" 04:42, 29 May 2011 (UTC)
:Can we include a unknown date section for the information with unspecific or unconfirmed date? -[[User:Pokeant|Pokeant]] 11:11, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

== Some issues with the timeline ==

''' ''Approximately two years after Generation II/Generation IV: '' '''
*''Cipher and Team Snagem return in the Orre Region, and create XD001, a supposedly unpurifiable Shadow Pokémon, but their plans are thwarted by Michael. Meanwhile, Dr. Kaminko and Chobin invent Robo Groudon and Robo Kyogre, and Professor Krane invents the purification chamber, where Shadow Pokémon can be purified more easily. ''
When was it ever stated that the Orre games even take place at the the same time as the Hoenn games? Orre looked like post-apocalyptic world.

''' ''Approximately 10 years after Generation II/Generation IV (Generation V): '' '''
*''The events of Black and White. ''
Why 10? If Black and White take place 10 years after Gen IV, then both Looker and Cythia have had botox. '''X'''[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']]'''X''' 02:03, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

:To answer your first question, it occuring around the same time as the Hoenn games/Kanto games was implied with the fact that it could trade to the Sevii Islands/Hoenn when linked up. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 02:34, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
::it is written as 10 years since the team rocket grunt in gsc/hgss makes an appearance and had a son. however, it can't be 10 years too. assuming he returned to unova the same year as gsc/hgss, it should roughly be 5 years. since from my memory, the overworld sprite of the son is a kid (i think) and so should not even be 10 years old. therefore, 5 should be a good approximation in my opinion. '''maybe another source mentioned it takes place roughly 10 years later?''' -[[User:Pokeant|Pokeant]] 03:32, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

== "A meteor breaks up a Pokémon World Pangaea, and makes all the regions"??? ==

does this belong to the anime history instead of here? it is not stated in the games a meteor breaks up the region. istead regigigas is the one that pulls the continents... i think this should go to the anime list. -[[User:Pokeant|Pokeant]] 10:04, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
:You are correct. I have already eliminated that statement since it is from the anime. You can add it in if you would like to. :] [[User:Han Ji-Wan|Han Ji-Wan]] 19:33, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

== Giratina returns to the Pokémon world prior to Generation I? ==

"Some years prior to Generation I: Giratina returns to the Pokémon world."
"Between Generation I/III and Generation II/IV: Giratina returns to the Distortion World."
Okay, where does it say that in the games or the like? --''Insert Witty Dialog Here'' [[User:NateVirus|NateVirus]]''([[User talk:NateVirus|Talk]])'' 01:38, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
:* I thought [[Giratina]] was stuck in Distortion World until the events in Platinum (or Generation IV really). But, I'll keep those parts up, in case there is a source that I'm missing. ----[[User:NateVirus|NateVirus]]''([[User talk:NateVirus|Talk]]''|''[[Special:Contributions/NateVirus|Contributions]]'') 06:02, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

== Parallel universe? ==

I've been toying with some ideas on an alternate view of the game's history based on a few key facts. Essentially, there must be some concrete level of parallelism between the real world and the Pokémon world, if everything in the games is taken as canon:

*Most (or many) Pokémon are classified by what type of animal they are (Pikachu is a "Mouse Pokémon", etc.), so it can be assumed that Pokémon were not prevalent as a whole in the universe until sometime within the realm of documented history; otherwise, animals would be classified by what Pokémon they are like (if there are even normal animals in the game; the only real indication I know of is the aquarium in the Cerulean City gym in the anime).
*From that point, two options emerge:
**Pokémon evolved from actual animals sometime approximately within the realm of documented history, then out-competed normal animals to near, if not total, extinction. This must have occurred within documented history, for surely even a minute population of a given species of Pokémon would quickly dominate any corresponding animal (e.g., two Pikachu could flourish against thousands of normal mice).
**Pokémon were suddenly introduced into the universe. This could have resulted from several things: Dialga/Palkia/Giratina essentially control all of space-time, so Pokémon could have been transferred from a totally different universe; a population of Mew that existed on the planet beyond human influence, because of some external influence, suddenly evolved into all manner of other Pokémon; or something to that effect.
*Taking the Pokédex entries as fact, refer to Golduck's entry from R/B, which makes mention of the "Japanese monster [[wp:Kappa_(folklore)|Kappa]]." This implies not only that Japan as a country exists in the Pokémon world, but also that its historical and cultural development must have been largely similar to its real-life history, or else such a legend would likely have never existed.
*Other entries of that sort appear, such as Poliwrath's, which refers to the Pacific Ocean, implying that general geography is such that sailing and exploration occurred in a similar way to real life. Also consider the journal entry claiming to have sighted Mew in Brazil (I believe?). As such, we can assume that the Pokémon world was for a long period of time identical to our own, save potentially for minor changes outside of human influence (e.g. Mew population), until some particularly disruptive event thrust the world into an alternate timeline.
*Of course, there must be some limitation as to how much parallelism is accepted as canon; every player character owns the latest generation of Nintendo console at home. What is to be made of that?
*Also consider the technological development of the world, especially based on needs and resources; teleportation is essentially perfected, but there are only a handful of planes, none of which are for passengers (as in Black/White).
*If these points are all accepted, we are given potential insight into the development of Pokémon society within species: Since Pokémon must have come to human attention after the development of language, it can be assumed that all Pokémon capable of saying their names evolved to do so only after sufficient exposure to humans calling them by that name, or else language would have been deterministic.
*Given that Pokémon did not dominate the ecosystem until relatively recently in the world's history, it is important to consider how Pokémon have or have not emigrated across continents. If humans have made contact across continents for some period of time, it should be expected that Pokémon would be able to do the same (e.g. if Pidgeot can fly at Mach 2, what's stopping it from crossing any ocean a boat or a Water-type Pokémon can cross and invading a new ecosystem?). This point requires more research.

I'd love to hear what you think!

[[User:FurretTurret|FurretTurret]] 04:05, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

== PokePark Wii ==
Can someone put the PokePark Wii plot in it? [[User:Metalfenix11|Metalfenix11]] 15:17, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

How do you guys know that PokePark Wii takes place between Generation I/III and II/IV??? [[User:Metalfenix11|Metalfenix11]] 12:29, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

== Implications of Steven being Champion and the Dotted Hole ==
What evidence is there that RSE are taking place at the same time as FrLG? The Dotted Hole saying "CONNECT THE PAST" in FrLG and Steven being Champion still in HgSs seem to being evidence that FrLG and RSE aren't taking place at the same time. Are there any events or dialog in RSE or FrLG that definitely (or probably) reference specific time-line events in the other? -[[User:Babilfrenzo|Babilfrenzo]] 19:32, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

== Evidence ==

Where's the evidence for Generations I and III taking place at the same time, and for Generations II and IV at the same time? Black and White show that Platinum is the canon version for the Sinnoh games, and it didn't have the Red Gyarados report. Trading without time travel is a flimsy justification at best. Cynthia never mentions the events of DPPt in HGSS, and Steven only makes vague reference to similar-looking challengers, not to the Aqua/Magma crisis. Is that different in the original Japanese? I forget exactly what the Hiker in Hearthome says about Elm's report on Eggs, can we see what he says in both language versions of Platinum? I was discussing this with a friend (trying to support the same time argument), but I was unable to find any hard evidence that he couldn't come up with an alternate explanation for, so this is all seeming like a lot of speculation being passed off as fact. --[[Gallade|'''エ''']][[User:Galladeon|'''ルレ''']][[User talk:Galladeon|'''イ''''''ド''']] 05:46, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

You're not kidding when you say 'Trading without time travel is a flimsy justification at best'. Colloseum and XD Take place five years apart, yet both of them can still trade with Generation III Games. The upcoming BW2 Games are also extremely likely to be able to trade with the original Black and White, although they take place two years apart. [[User:Pokelad2|Pokelad2]] 15:32, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

== Gen III concurrent with Gen V?!!?! ==

Caitlin is the same Caitlin in both Gen IV (Battle Frontier) and Gen V - she looks about 4 or 5 years older which would imply that 4-5 years pass between the ends of the two storylines. Now, there's a trainer in BW2 that mentions the Mirage Tower recently disappearing... does that mean Gen III is concurrent with Gen V?!
Based off that, I think it goes RGBYFRLG---3yrs---GSCHGSS---2yrs---DPPt---4yrs---BW---2yrs---BW2,RSE
[[User:Jjl2357|Jjl2357]] ([[User talk:Jjl2357|talk]]) 21:32, 10 March 2013 (UTC)jjl2357

In B2W2 there are Magma and Aqua grunts that have formed a family both say they were part of the teams in R/S/E "Several years ago". This means R/S/E happens several years before the events of B2W2 which can be anywhere between 3 to 11 years before B2W2 which puts it before Black and White's story anyway. Current placement is most accurate based on events that transpire between R/S/E, FR/LG, and the spin offs [[User:XanderO|XanderO]] ([[User talk:XanderO|talk]]) 02:47, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

== Timeline Citations ==

Forgive me, however after scanning through this article it bugs me that the only reasoning (which I can find) for Gen III and Gen I being concurrent is speculation and that doesn't sit well with me.

We know that Gen I and II are three years apart as that's mentioned repeatedly in G/S/C/HG/SS and B/W and B2/W2 are two years apart for the same reason.

We can derive that BW2 takes place after the events of RSE because of the Former Aqua/Magma couple in Iccarus, as we can derive it's after the events of Gen II and IV as Team Rocket and Galatic's failures are mention in N's castle in B/W.

Despite this, it doesn't nessessarily mean that D/P/Pt must be concurrent with G/S/C, likewise with R/S/E and R/B/Y, unless I've missed something?

As for Spin-Offs, admittedly the only one I've played is Ranger 2 and for all I know that could be before R/B/Y as it could be after BW2.

--

My point is, could we have it mentioned (maybe in the introduction) the order of the games as far as we cannoincally know?
[[User:Conductor Alix|Conductor Alix]] ([[User talk:Conductor Alix|talk]]) 00:16, 24 April 2013 (UTC)
: I was under the impression that RBY and RSE were considered concurrent because they reference the events of each other as current events, and the same goes for GSC and DPPt. DPPt had a mention of the Red Gyarados incident from GSC, for example. That being said, I can't remember what the other references were, so I might be completely wrong. [[User:Yamiidenryuu|Yamiidenryuu]] ([[User talk:Yamiidenryuu|talk]]) 22:35, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

== Some details ==

It somewhere information about the Giovanni/Silver/Celebi event in HGSS?
And about the later appearance of champions and gym leaders in B2W2, specially about Sabrina joining the Pokewood industry and Giovanni wasn't arrested or something?
DPPt storyline wasn't supposed to be a bit earlier than HGSS because of Jasmine appearance in Sunnyshore City and later change of clothes?
Sorry for my english :)
--[[User:Virus bass|Virus bass]] ([[User talk:Virus bass|talk]]) 17:52, 12 September 2013 (UTC)
==Old man in Coumarine City==

During my Pokemon Y playthrough i talked to this old man in Coumarine City. He said something about seeing a "Pokemon Trainer with a great Ampharos" in Azure Bay when he was a young boy (possibly Jasmine?). Is this helpful in placing X and Y in the timeline?
[[User:JEFLIV|JEFLIV]] ([[User talk:JEFLIV|talk]]) 03:56, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
:He probably talks about the man in Azure Bay who gives you an Ampharosite. And even if not, it would be speculation if it were Jasmine, and speculation on pages is not allowed. ☼ Blazing[[User talk:Blazingfist|Fist ☼]] 14:49, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

==Writer tweets timeline?==
The writer for the series has tweeted the official timeline for the series. Which mostly matches up with what you guys have here https://twitter.com/matsumiyan/status/464052839870787584 X and Y seem to take place at the same time as B/W2 --[[User:Tuskin38|Tuskin38]] ([[User talk:Tuskin38|talk]]) 15:42, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

== X/Y Can Not Be Concurrent With B/W2. X/Y Take Place During The Same Year As R/S/E ==

X/Y can't take place at the same time as B/W2 as the Y Pokedex entry for Lunatone states that it "..was discovered at the site of a meteor strike 40 years ago. " The pokedex entry for Emerald also states that it was found 40 years ago. Therefore X/Y have to take place at the same time as R/S/E.

[[User:Senkara|Senkara]] ([[User talk:Senkara|talk]]) 22:18, 11 May 2014 (UTC)
: The dex entries are already known to contain contradictory or outright nonsensical information, so I don't think keeping them coherent is much of a priority for Gamefreak. Most likely thay's just an oversight.
: Besides, it's confirmed that XY take place after BW at least (mentions of something big having gone down in Unova a couple years before the games), and BW take place after RS (don't remember which games, but there's the former Aqua and Magma couple). So XY being concurrent with RS is impossible anyway. [[User:Yamiidenryuu|Yamiidenryuu]] ([[User talk:Yamiidenryuu|talk]]) 22:45, 11 May 2014 (UTC)
::No, it was recently stated that XY and B2W2 take place around the same time. As for the Pokedex, it means nothing. They're full of things that don't really make sense. (Slugma as hot as the sun.) And it's just a reused entry anyway. [[User:Ataro|Ataro]] ([[User talk:Ataro|talk]]) 23:02, 11 May 2014 (UTC)

==Time Paradox Danger==
Well, I'm also excited for the upcoming games however there is a problem everyone ignores.
as RB(RG) comes with RSE, a remake for RB(RG) that takes time with RSE make sense indeed. and so on for remakes of GS and DPPt.
BUT, and here is a big but, RS already have a stated position in timeline, and if XY and RS will be able to trade with each other, we would yeild a time paradox.
The solutions that would remove this time paradox are as follows:
1. you will not be able to trade from XY to new RS, only through the bank.
2. it will be about 8-9 years after the events of the original RS, though if I'm not wrong it have been confrimed that aSoR would be remakes of RS with the same storyline and characters.
3. you will get an item or access to a place similar to GSC that will some sort of a time forward machine to be able to trade with XY.

if none of the above would happen, we will have a difficult to write the timeline properly.
sorry about my english, it's not my first language.
[[User:Shaked|Shaked]] ([[User talk:Shaked|talk]]) 15:16, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

== 3000 years prior... ==

In the actual article, there's a "3000 years before generation five" and a "3000 years before generation six". Whether or not the games happen at the same time (which B2/W2 do with X/Y) at the very most, there's only a decade separating the Kanto games from the Kalos games. So shouldn't both "3000 years" events be combined into one?--[[User:BlackButterfree|BlackButterfree]] ([[User talk:BlackButterfree|talk]]) 04:29, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

== Spin-off games ==

When have the spin-offs ever been considered canon? Colosseum/XD and the Ranger games are mentioned repeatedly in this article, despite not being developed by GameFREAK and never being referenced in any of the main games whatsoever. The officially released timeline doesn't even include them, so throwing them in here makes about as much sense as including Snap or the TCG Gameboy game. This is almost as bad as the "trio master" page for being almost entirely fan fiction.[[User:Five|Five]] ([[User talk:Five|talk]]) 09:12, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

== How ORAS fits into all of this ==

Now, as we all know, Zinna leaves a nice little quote during the Delta episode that implies a multiverse. And, as previously stated, ORAS would cause a time paradox if it were anywhere in the current timeline due to various elements such as Fairy types being just a normal thing while it was a big deal in XY, Mega Evolution being somewhat well known, etc.
This obviously points to the sheer implausibility of ORAS being anywhere in the main timeline. With Zinna's quote in context, could it be Nintendo cleaning up their continuity errors for once? All leads seem to point to it right now.--[[User:Hwrdjacob|Hwrdjacob]] ([[User talk:Hwrdjacob|talk]]) 05:51, 13 December 2014 (UTC)
:Zinnia's quote puts Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire firmly into the same timeline as X and Y. She mentions the ''other'' Hoenn belongs to a world where the Kalos War did not happen and Mega Evolutions aren't well known. ORAS fit into "all this" the same way all remakes do: they replace the older games in the main continuity. - [[User:Taylor|Taylor]] ([[User talk:Taylor|talk]]) 06:01, 13 December 2014 (UTC)
::About your points: breeding, Steel- and Dark-types were "a big deal" in the Johto games, and they're all treated as normal, common things in the original Hoenn games, which happen chronologically before. New features are only treated as such in their first appearance; in all following games, they're treated like they have always been there. This is not news. - [[User:Taylor|Taylor]] ([[User talk:Taylor|talk]]) 06:03, 13 December 2014 (UTC)
The difference being, however, that Gen 1 and 2 are very likely not the same timeline as Gen 3-6, with RS being something of a reboot in terms of continuity, and GS being firmly established as being after Emerald even before HGSS's release, making the whole Steel/Dark Type and Egg debate mostly moot. The other world she speaks of might very well be the verse of Gen 3, which if ORAS is concurrent with Emerald, would make sense at the time. Compounding these facts is that ORAS would create contradictions, regardless if you placed it around the time of FRLG or the time of XY. In addition, while every feature of the original Gen 1 and 2 were retained, with additions and extensions while towns were mostly kept the same with the exception of minor updates, Mauvile is just one example of an absolutely blatent example of intentional differentiation from the originals, along with axing the Battle Tower/Frontier for no good reason. Also, every major character is redesigned, it seems, something neither of the other two remakes did, with the arguable exception of the main characters. And this is of course, ignoring the contradictions in Mega Evolution backstory- Lucario VS. Rayquaza being first to Mega Evolve and Rayquaza making Mega Evolution vs. Xerneas/Yveltal making it via the Ultimate Weapon's radiation (The latter of which I am admittedly fuzzy on the side of Rayquaza's version). I could go on, with details such as the changing of most of the Gyms, Cosplay Pikachu, etc. Generally the reason new features are treated like they always were there I believe is because there isn't usually any of major significance, outside of adding Steel/Dark and Breeding, which a reboot fixed pretty quickly since technically, it was then correct to say it was always there... --[[User:Hwrdjacob|Hwrdjacob]] ([[User talk:Hwrdjacob|talk]]) 06:36, 13 December 2014 (UTC)
:Emerald hasn't been canon since HeartGold and SoulSilver, and now Ruby and Sapphire are no longer canon either. I could go on about your points and speculations (the other remakes ''didn't'' have redesigns, really?), but in fact it's as simple as that. - [[User:Taylor|Taylor]] ([[User talk:Taylor|talk]]) 06:43, 13 December 2014 (UTC)
::There is an interesting claim that you just made. Would you explain why the release of HeartGold and SoulSilver made Emerald no longer canon? --[[User:Super goku|Super goku]] ([[User talk:Super goku|talk]]) 06:50, 13 December 2014 (UTC)
:::HeartGold and SoulSilver, which take place after the Hoenn events, state that ''Steven'' is the Hoenn Champion. In Emerald canon, Wallace is the titleholder. - [[User:Taylor|Taylor]] ([[User talk:Taylor|talk]]) 07:04, 13 December 2014 (UTC)
::Keep in mind, we don't know what happens between generations. Wallace being Champion was implied in Emerald to be a VERY recent development, possibly even happening after you began your journey. So keep in mind, even with Emerald canon, he could have reclaimed his title behind the scenes. After all, Red relinquished his behind the scenes. If anything, I think it cements Emerald as canon by referencing both Aqua and Magma in a negative light. --[[User:Hwrdjacob|Hwrdjacob]] ([[User talk:Hwrdjacob|talk]]) 13:14, 13 December 2014 (UTC)
::Apparently, Championship is a very fragile thing, futher shown by Iris and Alder...--[[User:Hwrdjacob|Hwrdjacob]] ([[User talk:Hwrdjacob|talk]]) 13:18, 13 December 2014 (UTC)
::As for the redesign thing, I'm aware there were minor tweaks in most cases, but only once or twice did they take very durastic liberties, and it was only with Blue in HGSS and arguably the player characters off the top of my head. Try comparing pretty much any Gym Leader in ORAS to RSE...--[[User:Hwrdjacob|Hwrdjacob]] ([[User talk:Hwrdjacob|talk]]) 13:29, 13 December 2014 (UTC)
::And ultimately, Steven only remains Champion at the end in RS. He relinquishes his title to Wallace during the Delta episode.--[[User:Hwrdjacob|Hwrdjacob]] ([[User talk:Hwrdjacob|talk]]) 14:48, 13 December 2014 (UTC)
::The PWT in BW2 makes Emerald being canon even more likely. Blue is counted in the Champion Cup, implying they count current AND former Champions. Not only does Wallace appear, but he does so in the Champion Cup and using his Emerald appearance. It seems as if he became Champion in Emerald, then lost the title again to Steven, if he says he is Champion in HGSS on. [[User:Hwrdjacob|Hwrdjacob]] ([[User talk:Hwrdjacob|talk]]) 17:20, 13 December 2014 (UTC)
:::Speculation, speculation. The solid fact is that HGSS take place after the Hoenn games and Steven is the Champion - like RSORAS, unlike Emerald. (And have you really paid attention to ORAS? Steven doesn't relinquish his title, he suggests he ''may'' do something like that ''one day''; ''both'' Magma and Aqua are villains in both games, the only difference is which of them is the bigger threat and which reforms first). And, please, don't say there were never radical redesigns in the past, you're insulting everyone's intelligence (Blaine, Karen, the Rocket Executives, there are countless examples). Moreover, PWT is purely fan service and its canonicity is questionable; seriously, it has ''Giovanni'' waltzing around the place. Bottom line: as far as we know, remakes work now the same way they '''''always''''' did. You're desperately trying to find excuses to assume that Game Freak will for some reason change the way things have always been done and somehow deem that a ten year-old game is canon and the newest releases -- telling the same story -- are non-canon. - [[User:Taylor|Taylor]] ([[User talk:Taylor|talk]]) 20:52, 13 December 2014 (UTC)
::Giovanni was allowed to be Gym Leader in the first place, y'know, so I doubt anyone would bat an eye at him if he waltzed into the PWT. And since Driftveil was renovated for the purpose of hosting it, and the events with Colress there, I think it's canonical status is spoken for. Plus, the Rocket Execs? If you're referring to Proton and Petrel, the design was still used by Archer, so... there.And I'm not denying there weren't ANY radical redesigns, but they at least attempted to keep the same appearance with the majority of the characters. A good portion of THE ENTIRE CAST is radically altered and there's a blatent sense they aren't intended to look anyting like the originals (Contrast Emerald Brawly with ORAS Brawly, then GSC Brock with HGSS Brock for my point...) Lastly, I find it a bit hypocritical you'd put "No Speculation" on an article that has pretty much no basis for the placement of Pokemon XD. Im am not implying ORAS is non canon either. That's pure speculation on your part.--[[User:Hwrdjacob|Hwrdjacob]] ([[User talk:Hwrdjacob|talk]]) 22:25, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

== Separate Timeline? ==

I think Gen VI is set in a separate timeline since Mega Evolution is in the games and isn't in the games prior to them. Also Zinnia states about another Hoenn where Mega Evolution is unknown, which could be the one from RSE. [[User:Ellis99|Ellis99]] ([[User talk:Ellis99|talk]]) 12:54, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

It was confirmed a while ago that the events of X and Y are contemporaneous with the events of BW2 in terms of the timeline of all games as a whole (in other words, BW2 and XY happen at the same time). Plus, it isn't confirmed that the original RSE timeline is the exact alternate Hoenn that Zinnia refers to in the Delta Episode. Plus, I think you took that wrong, even if X and Y are in a different universe, I don't think it is exactly a ''separate timeline'', per se, but rather an alternate universe with a very similar timeline, but with the presence of Mega Evolution and the war. Furthermore, I strongly doubt this would matter much, as this page is already filled to the brim with discrepancy anyways, and Pokemon history is already very unstable and confusing... [[User:ScraftyIsTheBest|ScraftyIsTheBest]] ([[User talk:ScraftyIsTheBest|talk]]) 14:43, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

==Origins of Weather Trio==
I haven't played ORAS, so where's the info about the origins of Weather trio coming from? [[User:Trainer Yusuf|Trainer Yusuf]] ([[User talk:Trainer Yusuf|talk]]) 17:09, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

== Error on Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire ==

Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire events(ORAS for short) didn't happen at the same time as original ruby and sapphire, instead, they happen at the same time as the events of XY. the events that happen in ORAS are similar to RS however it's a different universe as was hinted at the delta episode, and also, that explain why looker is found at the battle tower island, not remembering everything, after getting from XY's Kalos to ORAS's Hoenn for unkown reason as it was probably moved between universes!
also, it fixes the trading paradox, as if XY and ORAS are happening in the same time, it's the only explanation of how you can trade betweem the two games(different universes but same time)! whereas it would be impossible to trade from XY to original RS(as RS happens at the past of XY), the assumption that ORAS is not the same time as RS makes sense!!
[[User:Shaked|Shaked]] ([[User talk:Shaked|talk]]) 19:52, 2 July 2016 (UTC)
:We're not going to rely on fan theories like "it would be impossible to trade [otherwise]" to decide that sort of thing. The only things that seem to date ORAS at all (mentions of Kalos around the Battle Maison, a general mention of the Kalos war 3000 years ago (i.e., it's at least ''roughly'' contemporary with XY), Professor Cozmo mentioning working with Sycamore "a few years ago"...and ''maybe'' the general state of Mega Evolution knowledge) don't place it at any very definite time.
:We may be wrong, but we're hardly certain whether we are or aren't. There's a huge rabbit hole we could go down thanks to the whole parallel universe trick. We can't approach the question of ORAS's place in the timeline haphazardly. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 20:30, 2 July 2016 (UTC)

well, it can't be 'fan theory' as the fact gen II and gen IV, are happening at the same time and gen I and gen III happening at the same time was made as to give explanation why does both can trade with each other, as otherwise no such explanation were needed(as people wondered how gen I and gen III can trade pokemon in between and same for II and IV).
as you stated, you can't know if it is RS timeline or XY timeline, so placing it at the timeline of RS is wrong as well, and ORAS events should be placed outside of timeline, stating it is happening at a parallel universe, or otherwise, no one told you that ORAS happend the same time as RS.
furthermore, there was no problem with assuming that RGBY and FRGL are same universe and GSC and HGSS are same universe as no trading paradox was made! JUST becuase there would be trading paradox between ORAS and XY if ORAS=RS, they invented the parallel universe thingy, to fix it up.(if in the future a remake of diamond and pearl is made, they can "play" with that parallel universe even again). [[User:Shaked|Shaked]] ([[User talk:Shaked|talk]]) 20:39, 2 July 2016 (UTC)
:I think when you say Gen I, II, III, and IV, you're meaning the events of RBY, GSC, RSE, and DPPt... But saying it like that is incredibly confusing, because Gen III and IV ''also'' contained remakes of the Gen I and II games. If it comes up again, I hope you can remember to be clearer.
:FWIW, the reference at the bottom of the page confirms the basic chronology on this page through XY; so we certainly don't have to rely on direct trading capabilities to "prove" that two stories happened at the same time (up to XY at least).
:Also FWIW, BW and B2W2 can trade, and we're ''quite'' certain those have a non-trivial time difference. Maybe direct trading was part of the justification at one time (I'm not at all sure there weren't other decent reasons, but I'm not interested in researching it that deeply), but given the Gen V games, it's definitely not viable anymore.
:You also have no evidence that the parallel universe thing was invented to "fix" the possibility of some paradox; you're only guessing. (What I'm trying to say is, please try not to put words in the developers' mouths.) Hell, is it even any neater or anything? (IMO, no.) Either you're trading between different times—which at least we've seen before, first explicitly for RBY and GSC, then quietly for BW and B2W2—or you're trading (or perhaps transferring, at some point) between parallel universes. Short of another cutoff like Gen II->III, there's probably not a "reasonable" solution if they're going to keep doing remakes.
:All that being said... It may be reasonable to distinguish ORAS from the normal timeline. (That's probably not a decision anyone should take entirely upon themselves, though...) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 21:32, 2 July 2016 (UTC)

First let me say that aside from remakes of Generation 1 games existing in Generation 3 (FR/LG), there is nothing that strictly says the events of Kanto happened in tandem with the events in Hoenn, unless you have some other source I have not been able to find.

I've done EXTENSIVE research on this and I am glad someone else pointed this out before Sun and Moon even came out. With the advent of Sun and Moon we have CONFIRMED the existence of alternate universes, and that Ruby, Sapphire, and Emerald exist in a universe/on a timeline separate from OR/AS, X/Y, and Sun and Moon. However, Shaked was keen to point out that OR/AS already has differences that we could have spotted in Generation 6 alone. Let me list a few more below, as cited from the "References to Other Generations" page on Bulbabedia itself. In the OR/AS references to RSE, the following can be found:

A Bug Catcher tells the player that he "heard that Pokémon Centers used to have two stories until 10 years ago" and had "a special area known as the Pokémon Cable Club". The last game to utilise this feature, Pokémon Emerald, was first released in 2004, 10 years before the remakes were released.
A man at Mt. Pyre mentions how there used to be holes in the floor, a thing that was true in Generation III.
When the player shows Norman the Eon Ticket, he says that it has been 11 years since he last saw the ticket. Eon Ticket was originally distributed in 2003, 11 years before the remakes' release.
All of these are in game pieces of dialogue; lore inserted into the game to inform the player about the universe that they are roaming. These are direct references to the original Ruby, Sapphire, and Emerald games, placing them as existing 10 to 11 years before the events of Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire. This suggests that the major events of OR/AS take place 10-11 years later than they do in RSE. Red and Blue from RBY have aged about that much (give or take two years) in Sun and Moon, and with the "Remake Rule" that Gen 1 games (RBY) and Gen 3 games (RSE) happened simultaneously because of Gen 3 remakes FR/LG, the idea of OR/AS taking place around this time makes sense (likely just before the events of Sun and Moon).

Another huge piece of evidence that links OR/AS with the time of X/Y: Wally. In Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire, we see a mega evolution using Wally who grows to become a strong trainer. In Sun and Moon, we see Wally again, and he seems to have slightly aged. However, he has not aged 10 years like Red and Blue have (which would HAVE to be the case if OR/AS and RSE happened at the same time as the events of RBY). He’s only grown a bit taller, as if aged up two to three years or so to be a young teenager. We know from the official Sun and Moon concept art for Grimsley found in the collector's guide that Sun and Moon happen two years after B2W2 (and because of the tweet, X and Y as well). So that two years of growth into an adolescent make perfect sense. Besides the slight height difference, his design remains about the same. If OR/AS was parallel in time with RSE, then Wally would ALSO have to be 21 like Red and Blue in Sun and Moon, which is most definitely not the case. Now, some people believe that Wally could just not have grown due to his “disease” that he has. But if you look at the details to what his disease actually is, you realize that it’s most likely a respiratory disease, like asthma. We can infer this from the fact that when Wally and his family move to Verdanturf, a town that is remarked by residents to have exceptionally clean air, Wally’s health is said to greatly improve because of it. This doesn’t entirely rule out a genetic growth disease, but I doubt that anything affected by genetics will improve instantaneously with a change in air quality.

References to Kalos and its technology—most notably the model of Prism Tower from Lumiose City—link these games very solidly to X and Y. There are VERY few links to Kanto to be found in the Hoenn of Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire, so to assume that they are intrinsically related would be misled.

Also, Anabel, a character seen ONLY in Pokémon Emerald before Sun and Moon, was said to have been found on the shores of Alola about 10 years ago by Looker and Nanu after having been cast through an Ultra Wormhole. This matches up closely with the timeline evidence I presented above.

Finally, you should follow your own "Remake Rule" regarding OR/AS! If Gen 1 and Gen 3 events happen at the same time because of the Gen 1 remakes in Gen 3, and the same for Gen 2 and Gen 4, then the same should hold true for Gen 3 and Gen 6. Why make an exception to that pattern now? It only weakens the links for the other ones.

Combine that all with the confirmation of a split between mega and non-mega universes, and you have very convincing evidence that OR/AS is more closely linked to X/Y than R/B/Y, and that the events do not happen simultaneously.

Let's talk about that tweet "reference" that is used for the timeline. Not only has that tweet since been deleted, but it came out before any lore about parallel timelines existed in Pokémon. Now that this has been confirmed in Generation 7, this tweet looks very outdated, especially with the idea that X and Y exist in a universe separate from the games that it came before. Also, that official ordering says specifically RSE, and makes no mention of OR/AS. To assume they are the same is incorrect and baseless.

I'm really hoping that what I've presented here helps convince you to rethink your placement of OR/AS. [[User:AlmigthtyArceus|AlmigthtyArceus]] ([[User talk:AlmigthtyArceus|talk]]) 12:14, 16 December 2016 (UTC)

:This is an incredible analysis, but I do have one piece of information that kinda throws a wrench in it: Porygon. In Firered, its Pokédex entry implies that it was a ''very'' recently created Pokémon, based on the Pokédex's use of "the most advanced technologies", and not including "of its time" or any similar phrase that would indicate a particularly distant past. Meanwhile, its entry in Sun states that it was created "roughly 20 years ago". In other words, there's a 20-year gap between the Kanto games and the Alola ones. [[User:Eskay64|Eskay64]] ([[User talk:Eskay64|talk]]) 18:20, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

== Pokémon Colosseum and Pokémon Ranger ==

How do we know Colosseum and Ranger take place shortly after Generations 1 and 3, and subsequently, how do we know XD Gale of Darkness takes place about two years after Generations 2 and 4? Also, do we know where the Ranger sequels are confirmed to be concurrent to Generations 2 and 4? [[User:BlackButterfree|BlackButterfree]] ([[User talk:BlackButterfree|talk]]) 08:13, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

:Sorry to be a nuisance, but I still would like an answer for this. While these two spin-offs do take place in the main canon, they shouldn't be listed if they're not properly sourced. (Which honestly, kinda applies to most of the page.) [[User:BlackButterfree|BlackButterfree]] ([[User talk:BlackButterfree|talk]]) 02:48, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

== The timeskip between Generation II/IV and Generation V ==

I see that the page now states Generation V took place "At least three years after Generation II/Generation IV". Why is that? As far as I know, there was no information available about much time passed between Generation II/IV and Generation V.
--[[User:Scan|Scan]] ([[User talk:Scan|talk]]) 21:55, 9 March 2017 (UTC)
:Generation VII takes place at least 10 years after Emerald, because of the amount of time [[Anabel]] has been in Alola. All the other gaps have a canonical length, so when you add it all up{{tt|*|3 years from III-IV, 2 years from BW to B2W2 and VI, 2 years from VI to VII}}, the gap from IV to V can be no less than three years. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 23:46, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

== More on alternate timelines ==

Doesn't the stuff with Anabel in Sun/Moon further imply the alternate timeline/reality thing? [[User:TheFatPanda|TheFatPanda]] ([[User talk:TheFatPanda|talk]]) 16:54, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

== Game chronology ==

This page is very much in-universe and doesn't cite its sources at all. Since timeline disputes have come up numerous times on various pages (usually about characters' ages), I would like to add [[User:Pumpkinking0192/Game timeline]] as a subsection either on this page or on [[Core series#Timeline]]. The rigorous citations will clearly explain the timeline, so people shouldn't get confused anymore. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 20:09, 6 May 2017 (UTC)
:Poke. Does anyone have an opinion on this proposal? [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 15:01, 21 May 2017 (UTC)
::First off, why do you repeat yourself in the GS and HGSS paragraph? [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 15:21, 21 May 2017 (UTC)
:::Because I'm trying to be rigorous and provide an exact citation for each game, and not just assume that remakes or third versions take place at the same time as their originals. I believe the first paragraph (Yellow, E, FRLG, ORAS) is the only place those citations are impossible and such assumptions have to be made. Obviously if the staff don't think that's necessary, it can be pared down, but just to start with I wanted to be as thorough as possible. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 15:26, 21 May 2017 (UTC)
::::Your GS/HGSS references already specify the games.
::::If I try to make an alternate, would you prefer I leave your userpage alone? Or that I simply make a second section? Or do you care if I replace it, with the original simply remaining in the past revisions? [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 16:09, 21 May 2017 (UTC)
:::::Any of that is fine by me. Thanks for your interest in the subject! [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 16:16, 21 May 2017 (UTC)
::::::I found the right-floating table a little hard to deal with or understand, mainly because of the large ranges in some perhaps, but also because it was relatively onerous to keep a given number in mind and then look for the piece of prose that says something about that number. For that reason, I put it all together in one table. I also added an explicit "years passed" column, because that's the actual number we usually have, and I think it's good to be able to find that easily and ''then'' see how that affects the aggregate timeline.
::::::The third version/remake caveat emptors can all be a preface to the more proper specifics. On a vaguely similar subject, you could probably also combine the GS and HGSS references into one (just adding the text of the latter onto the end of the former), since it's really the same thing just with version/remake differences.
::::::I really think the alternate universe deserves to be kept as separate as possible too, so I put those games in their own column. We could maybe take out notes that still state that a game takes place in the Mega Evolution universe since that's arguably taken care of by the ME timeline's column. (Maybe it could stay where XY and B2W2 are said to be contemporaneous, just to make it clear they're still separate.)
::::::I also moved all the reference "text" to the end, because having all that inline with the first references of each just bloated the wikicode; they work fine at the end, and it's much easier to get a handle on the text that actually uses the references.
::::::I'm not sure where/if it belongs on this page, but I think that all is better if it will go somewhere. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 17:03, 21 May 2017 (UTC)
:::::::I like it! I don't think it needs to be sortable, but otherwise I don't have anything to complain about. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 17:11, 21 May 2017 (UTC)
::::::::I don't think we should be using pokedex entries. dates provided are not definite and some games uses same entry so the time does not make sense (i.e. lunatone pokedex entry from emerald, HGSS, and Y all mentioned it is discovered 40 years ago, but we know the 3 games are set apart from each other). in addition, before the release of oras, XY can take place in the original timeline too, since in game, mega evolution is also stated to be discovered recently (though they might be referring to our real world), can't remember which npc quote it. also there are inconsistency such as lucario being the first to mega evolve instead of rayquaza which would make sense if it take place in original timeline -[[User:Pokeant|Pokeant]] ([[User talk:Pokeant|talk]]) 16:27, 25 May 2017 (UTC)
:::::::::A few things. Let's first refresh ourselves on what [[Zinnia]] said: ''"A world where maybe the evolution of Pokémon took a slightly different path, where Mega Evolution is unknown... A world where that war 3,000 years ago...never happened."''
:::::::::1) This establishes ORAS and XY as being in the same world/timeline, contrasted to one without them. ("A world where Mega Evolution is unknown" and "where that war 3,000 years ago...never happened".)
:::::::::2) It must also be noted that, despite the ambiguous wording in English of "A world [...] where Mega Evolution is unknown", in Japanese, her line explicitly says, "where Mega Evolution ''does not exist''".
:::::::::Now, first and foremost, just on the face of it, ''reasonably'', all the Gen I-V games, where Mega Evolution wasn't a thing, ''should'' be part of the "no Mega Evolution" timeline. Can you argue that it's not ''certain'' that Mega Evolution didn't exist in those games? Yes. Is there anything that makes that more than just a theory? ...No.
:::::::::And if you do make the argument that maybe they just didn't know about Mega Evolution, it can theoretically apply exactly as well to RSE as to RBY or BW or whatever. I really don't think there's a reasonable way to carve out RSE specifically (and/or certain other games) as being one timeline and leave the rest in the other timeline; even if you can theorize your way to it, it'll be very heavily speculative (require many leaps of logic/assumptions)—as opposed to the simplest explanation: that Mega Evolution simply didn't exist in pre-Gen VI games.
:::::::::(To just quickly and directly address your suggestion (if I'm not mistaken) that Mega Evolution was a recent discovery in XY: 1) the [[Tower of Mastery]] almost surely was not built "recently"; 2) a {{tc|Beauty}} on the Tower's fourth floor says, ''"When he was younger, Professor Sycamore trained here to learn about Mega Evolution. But he decided he didn’t have what it takes and left fairly quickly."'', which doesn't really sound "recent" either. If you can find your quote, that'd be helpful. The closest things I can spot in XY's script are [[Korrina]]'s line, "we still know very little about [Mega Evolution]" (if you take it a bit too far) and {{prof|Sycamore}}'s line, "[...] Mega Evolution, a new kind of Evolution", which still at least kind of contradicts him being in the Tower of Mastery.) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 15:02, 26 May 2017 (UTC)
It's only speculation now but I just want to share my suspicion that the gen 1 and 2 games might be made part of the ME timeline. Since with the virtual console the games are easily connected with the new games, it would also fill the gaps in the new timeline without needing to make other Kanto and Johto remakes again.--[[User:DanyyelTR|DanyyelTR]] ([[User talk:DanyyelTR|talk]]) 13:53, 5 August 2017 (UTC)
:It conflicts directly with both the existence of Mega Evolution in Hoenn, and the discovery of Steel/Dark types. The latter I bring up because, with the release of Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon, specifically the RR episode, there's possibility for a third timeline to be considered; a Classic/Disappearance Timeline. The reason I believe a third timeline exists is because it cleanly resolves all paradox retcon discussion while keeping all mainline games canon in some way. The plot of the episode not only confirms without a single shadow of a doubt the existence of alternate universes, but seems to explore a third timeline in which player characters didn't exist. However, taking a close look at the dialogue of the team leaders fought, it seems that the missing characters are very specific; only [[Archie]], [[Maxie]], [[Cyrus]] and [[Lysandre]] mention having emerged victorious, and moreover, they make allusions to the fact that the player characters in their world didn't even show up. This is different with Ghetsis and Giovanni; neither mention ever accomplishing their goals, instead, Ghetsis implies he might have had trouble controlling N, something he shouldn't have had with an absence of a hero trainer, (though that's very much debatable,) and Giovanni mentions a feeling of nostalgia, plus his attitude towards the player makes it seem as though this wasn't the first time he had been defeated. I believe this all points to a third, sequential timeline that starts with RBGY to GSC, then a sequence of generations where the villains win; C!Kanto is represented by RBGY, although Red does not catch Mewtwo, while concurrently C!Hoenn's Maxie and Archie successfully revive Groudon and Kyogre without the player's interference, and end up on a stalemate, meaning the world is spared and why at best minor side effects occur(weakest link, I admit). → C!Johto's events occur. C!Sinnoh's Team Galactic manage to capture Dialga/Palkia, but Cyrus is attacked by Giratina before he's able to finish his plan. → C!Unova's Ghetsis's plan to take over the world by taking away it's Pokémon fails, most likely due to N disobeying him and defeating him with the opposite Dragon. As a result, not only do B2W2's Plasma events not occur, but Pokémon remain in the world for X and Y's events to occur; → C!Kalos's Lysandre explicitly mentions successfully triggering his ultimate weapon, so even with him momentarily vanished, his plan to wipe out all life is successful.
:Other details that stick out, at least to me, are: •Giovanni has Mewtwo here, who was missing from GSC but not in HGSS. •Archie and Maxie utilize their Gen 3 designs, a very intentional decision, considering no game before has returned to a character's old design post-remake, not to mention the ORAS models were ready and available to be easily recycled. Their legendaries also don't utilize Primal Reversion. •Ghetsis uses his BW design and owns ''one'' of the dragons, possibly leaving N with the other.
:I'm sure there's inconsistencies I'm not catching, but I think there's some thought to be put into this theory since it places RBGYGSC in an established, known timeline instead of simply retconning them.--[[User:ChReNiC|ChReNiC]] ([[User talk:ChReNiC|talk]]) 09:35, 15 March 2018 (UTC)

== Melmetal and 3000 years MIA... ==

Per the Let's Go entries, Melmetal's been MIA for about that length of time. Do we add that in, and if so where? {{unsigned|KrspaceT}}

== Modern Poké Balls developed in 1925 ==

The source of this information is a fan club site, should it really be considered canon?

In Black 2 and White 2, Drayden states that Poké Balls did not exist when he was little. [[User:Ultra Ray|Ultra Ray]] ([[User talk:Ultra Ray|talk]]) 14:38, 19 November 2020 (UTC)
:Canon or not canon, it was stated by official sources (multiple times, the first mention of that comes from the "Encyclopedia Pokémonica" promotional booklet back from Gen I times and I think it was also mentioned in Takeshi Shudo's novelization of the anime) and is therefore worth noting. Given the multitude of licensed Pokémon materials, it is often hard to discern what is "canon" and what is not. The franchise never gave any strong guidelines about that either, so anything that isn't sheer fanfiction is welcome here. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 15:52, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

== Galar timeline and ages ==

There is a lot of information that can be inferred on the timeline of events in Galar, based on snippets we see in Rare League Cards and dialogue.

For this, I am making the assumption that Hop, Bede, Marnie, Peonia, Victor and Gloria are meant to all be peers of the same age group. If this is true, the earliest picture we have of a member of their generation would be of Peony and Peonia, taken while Peony was still a Steel-type Gym Leader and potentially the Champion of Galar. Peony stepped down after a certain amount of time, when Rose became chairman. That means that, at the earliest, Hop would have been Peonia's age in the picture when Leon became a champion at age 10. Because both Marnie and Peonia are representing transgressive, rebellious fashion trends (punk and ganguro respectively), it is likely they are meant to be middle adolescents at least (14 to 18). This would mean that Marnie and Peonia are 14 or 15. Counterpoint to that is that Gloria and Victor appear to share their rigs and proportions with Selene and Elio, which would indicate Gloria, Victor and Hop are 11 or 12.

It is stated that it was Chairman Rose who implemented the use of the Dynamax phenomenon in gym battles. In Piers' Rare League Card, he is quoted to state that, even though Spikemuth doesn't have a power spot, he will do his best to represent the town. This means that dynamax battles were implemented prior to Piers becoming a gym leader. Piers is noted to have gifted Marnie Morpeko when Marnie was five. This means that Piers had already begun his pokémon journey or maybe had already concluded it when Marnie was five. It is even possible Marnie joined Piers on his journey while she was five. This suggests that Piers' Rare League Card picture was taken around the same time that he gifted Morpeko to Marnie (the picture representing the age at which Piers entered the League, as opposed to when he became gym leader). Based on Piers' rare league card image, Piers looks to have been older than the protagonist characters were when they started their pokémon journey, though it's hard to tell by how much due to the style, but not so old that he would stop growing afterwards.

Based on Peonia's picture and comparing this with Marnie's age when she received Morpeko, it seems as though Marnie was around the same age as Peonia was in Peony's Rare League Card. Assuming no special interactions between Peony and Piers take place in the game (I might be wrong there), it seems likely that Piers did the gym challenge after Peony stepped down and at the start of Rose's tenure as chairman. In the relatively short time frame in which rival characters tend to become gym leaders, dynamax bands were introduced.

Added together, this suggests that Piers may have been significantly older than Leon (as much as 15 or 16 to Leon's 10) and may have been Leon's rival during his Galar Gym Challenge. It is possible that Leon became champion without an incumbent champion to defeat (since Peony stepped down without a fight), before or during the introduction of the dynamax phenomenon by Chairman Rose. This would place Leon's age anywhere between 16 (assuming Hop was 5 to Leon's 10 and Hop is now 11) and 21 (assuming Hop was 4 to Leon's 10 and Hop is now 15). Piers would be anywhere between 18 (assuming he was 12 to Marnie's 5 and Marnie is now 11) and 26 (assuming he was 16 to Marnie's 5 and Marnie is now 15). [[User:Calmetta|Calmetta]] ([[User talk:Calmetta|talk]]) 14:26, 19 January 2021 (UTC)

==lore from the backstory==
https://twitter.com/RavelMonte/status/1393999352205615106 [[User:Roserade57|Roserade57]] ([[User talk:Roserade57|talk]]) 02:50, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

== Move article ==

I feel like the article should be named "History of the Pokémon universe" because this article is talking about the entire Pokémon universe and not just the Pokémon world. [[User:Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm|Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm]] ([[User talk:Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm|talk]]) 18:30, 11 December 2021 (UTC)

== There is no way that Pokemon Legends: Arceus takes place "hundreds of years before Gen IV" ==

Legends Arceus is so clearly based on early Meiji Era Hokkaido that I don't know how anyone could have ever thought otherwise. The Galaxy Team headquarters is practically a replica of the [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/65/Hokkaido_Prefectural_Office02s5s4272.jpg Hokkaido Government Office] that was built in Sapporo by the Meiji government in 1873, and it has a Galarian Weezing styled smokestack on the roof which also implies post industrialization. There are also kerosene lamps throughout the interior, which were invented in 1853. Laventon's office has a steam powered machine of some sort, and he has a camera based on the [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/95/LEI0060_186_Leica_I_Sn.5193_1927_Originalzustand_Front-2_FS-15.jpg Leica I] which came out in 1925. Even Hisui having its named changed to Sinnoh is a reference to Hokkaido getting its name changed from Ezochi by the Meiji government. In light of all this, I think PLA should be placed, at most, 120-130 years before Gen IV if not a bit later. {{unsigned|Porkadi110}}
:Pokémon chronology doesn't have to be 1:1 with real world chronology. Just because the industrial revolution happened in the 19th century, doesn't make Hisui's timeline the 19th century as well. I don't think we even got an exact number, just a vague "X years ago". Sure, this entire article is mostly speculation, but it's speculation based off known information.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 04:44, 11 February 2022 (UTC)

::In Pokemon Legends Arceus there is a side-quest where you need to find 108 spirits to capture Spiritomb that has been sealed hundreds of years prior, going by that information would put the game around 300 years before gen 4 at the earliest since its said hundreds in plural. Also considering that the game contains most ancestors of other characters it wouldn't make much sense to put the game that far in the timeline, of course it is never stated (for now) but considering the fact that most of those ancestors are so similar to its descendants it would make sense that they are their grandparents or great-grandparents which would put the game at around 150~100 years before gen 4. [[User:Draconk|Draconk]] ([[User talk:Draconk|talk]]) 12:21, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
:::Taking what you mentioned about the Spiritomb request into consideration, the game would most likely take place 300-100 years ago, not 150-100. [[User:Inkster|Inkster]] ([[User talk:Inkster|talk]]) 04:53, 12 February 2022 (UTC)
::::Most information seems to support technology progressing in the Pokemon world similarly to how it progressed in real life. The Parfum Palace was built 300 years prior to Gen VI, and it matches the exact kind of architecture that was popular in France 300 years prior to the present. Klink, a Pokemon literally made of industrial gears, didn't start appearing in Chargestone Cave until 150 years prior to Gen V. Nacrene City's warehouses weren't constructed until 100 years before Gen V. The moon landing happened in the Pokemon world on the exact same date that it happened in real life. There are far more parallels between the technological progress of the real world and the Pokemon world than there are discrepancies. Still, like you said the article IS speculation, but even so you yourself admitted that Arceus is only vaguely stated to be "X years ago," so the article should still be changed regardless because there is absolutely nothing that states that it takes place "hundreds" of years prior to Gen IV. [[User:Porkadi110|Porkadi110]] ([[User talk:Porkadi110|talk]]) 00:56, 20 February 2022 (UTC)
::::The whole matter of Spiritomb is entirely irrelevant and a moot point. All the little girl says is "hundreds of years ago," but considering Spiritomb was sealed for the first time 500 years before Gen IV, that's not entirely helpful. Her statements don't directly support the game taking place 300-100 years ago OR 150-100 years ago. [[User:Porkadi110|Porkadi110]] ([[User talk:Porkadi110|talk]]) 00:56, 20 February 2022 (UTC)
:::::Spiritomb and Vessa's dialogue is relevant because it at least gives a hint to the game's placement in the timeline. [[User:Inkster|Inkster]] ([[User talk:Inkster|talk]]) 20:28, 20 February 2022 (UTC)
::::::Vessa's dialogue isn't relevant for the context of this discussion. All she says is "hundreds of years ago," meaning the game could take place 300 years before Gen IV and her dialogue would still be true, the game could take place 200 years before Gen IV and her dialogue would still be true, the game could take place 100 years before Gen IV and her dialogue would still be true, the game could take place 50 years before Gen IV and her dialogue would still be true, etc. Nothing in her dialogue makes a date of 300 years prior any more likely than a date of 100 years prior, so it isn't really relevant for the purposes of this discussion. [[User:Porkadi110|Porkadi110]] ([[User talk:Porkadi110|talk]]) 05:10, 21 February 2022 (UTC)
::::::We do actually have a solid time frame of when Pokémon Legends: Arceus takes place, a [https://www.pcmag.com/reviews/pokemon-legends-arceus-for-nintendo-switch review published by PC Magazine] states: "''Pokemon's Hisui/Sinnoh region is based on the island of Hokkaido. Its early form as the Hisui region and the story around Pokemon Legends: Arceus actually touches a bit on that history. The game takes place during the equivalent of Japan’s Muromachi period, when people from mainland Pokemon’s version of Japan are settling Hisui and interacting with the native residents. In this case, the Galaxy Expedition Team are the first settlers from the mainland, while the Diamond and Pearl clans (analogous to the Ainu people) welcome them.''" We can assume that this is a reliable source because PC Magazine received the game early from The Pokémon Company to review along with information on the game, as well as being recognized as a reliable source in the industry. The Muromachi period takes place from 1336 to 1573 which would make PLA take place somewhere between around 500-700 years ago, but most likely around 700 years ago since it is stated in-game that the [[Galaxy Team]] only arrived less than 2 years prior to the game's start. As stated earlier in this discussion the Pokémon timeline does not have to be 1:1 with the real world, but without any other information to state otherwise about PLA's placement in the timeline, we will just have to assume that PLA takes place around the same time that it's real-life equivalent does. [[User:Mew07777|Mew07777]] ([[User talk:Mew07777|talk]]) 23:52, 20 February 2022 (UTC)
:::::::Yeah I'm not buying it. PC Magazine is just speculating on their own and aren't quoting gamefreak there at all. Plus, as Inkster said, the dating of the Muromachi period is completely contradicted by Vessa's dialogue. As I made clear earlier, all the real world parallels that gamefreak put into this game come from the Meiji period, not the Muromachi period. It's pretty obtuse to think that gamefreak, a Japanese company, would purposefully pick references to 19th century Japanese history for a fantasy setting inspired by medieval Japanese history. That'd be like giving a first glance at Red Dead Redemption 2 and thinking that Rockstar (meant to say rockstar), an American company, was placing the game in the 1700s even though the entire thing is clearly inspired by a late 1800s western setting. The timeline doesn't have to be 1:1, but Gamefreak has shown with a fair bit of consistency that they usually opt to make the timeline line up with real life more often than not. It makes no sense to ignore every single Meiji period reference that Gamefreak put into Legends Arceus in favor of going off of some speculation made by a western gaming magazine. [[User:Porkadi110|Porkadi110]] ([[User talk:Porkadi110|talk]]) 05:19, 21 February 2022 (UTC)
:::::::Thing is, with the information about the first Spiritomb that was sealed according to the Pearl/Shining Pearl Pokédex entry, the game cannot be set more than 500 years ago. [[User:Inkster|Inkster]] ([[User talk:Inkster|talk]]) 01:04, 21 February 2022 (UTC)
::::::::At this point, I think we should just have it say "at least 100 years". [[User:Inkster|Inkster]] ([[User talk:Inkster|talk]]) 05:49, 21 February 2022 (UTC)
:::::::::I'm fine with that, or heck even just saying something even vaguer like "many years before." It just makes no sense to me to arbitrarily pick "hundreds of years ago" when even Japanese fans over on Pixiv are speculating that it takes place at some time analogous to the early Meiji period:https://dic.pixiv.net/a/LEGENDS%E3%82%A2%E3%83%AB%E3%82%BB%E3%82%A6%E3%82%B9 [[User:Porkadi110|Porkadi110]] ([[User talk:Porkadi110|talk]]) 06:04, 21 February 2022 (UTC)
::::::::::Why have the events of PLA been moved to 500 years before Gen IV? I am going to revert it back to at least 100 years ago. [[User:Mew07777|Mew07777]] ([[User talk:Mew07777|talk]]) 04:11, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

== Did {{p|Arceus}} create the [[Pokémon world]] or did {{p|Dialga}} and {{p|Palkia}}? ==

Did {{p|Arceus}} create the [[Pokémon world]] or did {{p|Dialga}} and {{p|Palkia}}? There are myths saying that Palkia and Dialga created the Pokémon world and there are myths saying that Arceus created the Pokémon world. So which is it? This article states that Dialga and Palkia created the Pokémon world while the Pokémon world, Pokémon universe, and Myths and legends involving Legendary and Mythical Pokémon articles say that Arceus created the Pokémon world. We need to keep the information on [[Bulbapedia]] consistent. [[User:Mew07777|Mew07777]] ([[User talk:Mew07777|talk]]) 20:49, 22 March 2022 (UTC)

: The problem is that the myths themselves are inconsistent. —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 09:38, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

:: Yes, but we need to be consistent on which myth we use for our articles. We can't have two articles saying different things about the same topic. We have to decide which myth we will use, the myth that says Dialga and Palkia created the Pokémon world, or the myth that says Arceus created the Pokémon world. [[User:Mew07777|Mew07777]] ([[User talk:Mew07777|talk]]) 21:13, 26 March 2022 (UTC)

:::We don't decide anything, this is a wiki so all we do is report what official media say. I'm not much familiar with all the myths, but if games sometimes say it was Arceus and sometimes that it were Dialga and Palkia then that's what should be said on all the pages. Please fix that anywhere you find such inconsistency.--'''[[User:Team Rocket Grunt|Rocket]] [[User talk:Team Rocket Grunt|Grunt]]''' 22:01, 26 March 2022 (UTC)

== Pokémon Legends: Arceus should take place at most 200 years before Pokémon Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl ==

Spiritomb's Pearl and Shining Pearl Pokédex entries state that it was sealed in the Odd Keystone 500 years ago. Since Spiritomb appears in Legends: Arceus, which is a premake (a portmanteau of ''remake'' and ''prequel'') of Diamond and Pearl, and Vessa mentions it was sealed away "hundreds of years ago", and The Free Dictionary defines "hundreds of" as "several hundred" ("Several" being defined as "more than 2 but not many"), Pokémon Legends: Arceus should take place at most 200 years before Pokémon Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl instead of at most 300 years before Generation IV. --
[[User:Matthewmgcs|Matthewmgcs]] ([[User talk:Matthewmgcs|talk]]) 13:35, 10 August 2022 (UTC)
:This is an incredible valid point. Legends Arceus is, at most, two centuries away from the modern games. Even if you disregard Vessa herself, the Pokemon world has time that mirrors ours - we even see this in Gen I and III with the space shuttle and such - and this game is obviously Meiji period.--[[User:Darknesslover5000|Darknesslover5000]] ([[User talk:Darknesslover5000|talk]]) 00:13, 28 November 2022 (UTC)
::There is no official confirmation on how long PLA takes place before DP, no matter how obvious it is. [[User:Inkster|Inkster]] ([[User talk:Inkster|talk]]) 00:19, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

== Move to Timeline (game) ==

Mainly for consistency with the other two timeline articles, and the current title falsely implies that it is the history of the franchise in general. [[User:Inkster|Inkster]] ([[User talk:Inkster|talk]]) 13:38, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
:I like the ring of the current title better. Just calling it "timeline" takes the life and charm out of it. The anime timeline records the story of the anime, so it makes since to call it a timeline, as it is mostly a strict timeline of events in the anime, plus flashbacks. Whereas this "timeline" is an attempt at a full history of the Pokémon world as a whole, so the title should reflect that. [[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']] 08:43, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
::Well, in any case this page is formatted like a timeline pretty much like [[Timeline (anime)]] and [[Timeline (Adventures)]].
::At least in my opinion, I would be OK with calling this one [[Timeline (game)]]. If the wording "History of the Pokémon world" is good, maybe [[Timeline (anime)]] should be moved to [[History of the Pokémon world (anime)]]? But anyway I think I'd prefer using "Timeline (anime)" as it's shorter to type.
::Please let's use a consistent naming format for those pages if possible. --[[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 12:33, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
:::I suppose you're not wrong. And I do like how Timeline (anime) and Timeline (Adventures) can be linked to with link templates, as would Timeline (game). My idea of what this article should be is different from what it is, but I suppose as it stands Timeline (game) would be fine. I'll go ahead and say that I support the move. [[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']] 13:25, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

== Humans 3 million years ago ==

Where is stated that human appeared 3 million years ago? I have searched, but I could not find any evidence of it. --[[User:Marcodpat|Marcodpat]] ([[User talk:Marcodpat|talk]]) 16:22, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

== Pokémon Legends Arcues ==

The events of Pokémon legends Arceus, are just left in this article like: "The events of Pokémon Legends Arceus occur", I feel like this is unfair for a main line game in this page because all the other games in the main line do have a detail account of the story of each respective game, can someone add the story of the game please? --[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 09:49, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

Talk:List of Pokémon by National Pokédex number/Archive 2

2023-01-13T20:19:45Z

Neos: /* Forms of Gen IX Pokémon missing from the list */ new section

== Archives ==
* [[Talk:List of Pokémon by National Pokédex number/Archive 1|Archive 1]]
__TOC__
== Gen VI ==
<s>Could Aurorus and Tyrantrum be added to the page, or will they be added after this mystery Pokémon is revealed tomorrow?</s> Scratch that. Aurorus, Tyrantrum, and Doublade need to be added. --[[User talk:Relicant|The]] [[Special:Contributions/Relicant|Truth]] aka Relicant 16:19, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

== 719, 720, 721 ==

I remember reading somewhere that someone discovered Pokemon past Zygarde. Should we add them? [[User:Liberty Bell|Liberty Bell]] ([[User talk:Liberty Bell|talk]]) 14:25, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
:We know about them, but we can't really confirm them since this time we neither can crack into the game to see all the data, nor they've been officialy revealed... at least for now. [[User:Uploader|Uploader]] ([[User talk:Uploader|talk]]) 14:39, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

== Cottonee's type change ==

Can anyone add Fairy type to Cottonee please, that's because it's evolution is also Fairy type. Thank you! [[User:Cinday123|Cinday123]] ([[User talk:Cinday123|talk]]) 06:56, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

== False typing ==

Cottonee and Whimsicott are not fairy type. Why do people keep stating that when you cannot even find them in x or y? --[[User:Admantus|Admantus]] ([[User talk:Admantus|talk]]) 19:07, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
:You can't catch them yourself, but they are used by other Trainers in battle facilities, etc. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 20:19, 1 December 2013 (UTC)

::And according to Serebii, Cottonee line is now Fairy type, however, you can't catch them in Kalos and the only way to get them is to transfer Pokémon from Black, White, Black 2 or White 2 to X or Y, this is because it is not available to catch in Kalos however you have a chance to see them in battle facilities whereas Trainers used Whimsicott. [[User:Cinday123|Cinday123]] ([[User talk:Cinday123|talk]]) 08:52, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

Well, Serebii might be wrong, because they haven't even updated the sprites for the other unobtainable pokemon that appear post-game. I think that the types should be switched back to pure grass until pokemon bank comes out. --[[User:Admantus|Admantus]] ([[User talk:Admantus|talk]]) 20:56, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

:That has nothing to do with it. I mean, the information on Bulbapedia is always confirmed information. And any information that wasn't confirmed gets removed. So, the fact that Cottonee/Whimsicott being Grass/Fairy hasn't been removed or altered back to it's original information/typing means it's been confirmed. And like [[User:Cinday123|Cinday123]] and others have said, just because you can't catch it in the Kalos region games doesn't mean you can't still obtain it. And that means, the information for Cottonee & Whimsicott are programmed in the games. So, I say let it be. [[User:DarienLeonhart|DarienLeonhart]] ([[User talk:DarienLeonhart|talk]]) 21:52, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

== Order ==

Is it just me or are the pokemon listed for gen VI out of order? Not like broken, but I see like 114 right after 93 and etc. ★☆[[User:Togetic45|'''Toge''']][[User talk:Togetic45|'''tic''']][[Special:Contributions/Togetic45|'''45''']]☆★ 18:58, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
:It's not out of order. Those are the Pokemon's Kalos Dex numbers. The list is ordered by the National Dex numbers. --[[User:Funktastic~!|'''It's''' '''Funktastic~!''']][[User talk:Funktastic~!|''話してください'']] 19:05, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

== Secret Gen 6 Pokemon ==

What about those secret Pokemon from Gen 6? The ones after Zygarde? Shouldn't they be on here now? [[User:MegaNerd18|MegaNerd18]] ([[User talk:MegaNerd18|talk]]) 11:36, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

:I'm so sorry, the Pokémon Company haven't revealed these mythical Pokémon so let's just leave it for now until it's revealed so we don't know yet. [[User:Cinday123|Cinday123]] ''([[User talk:Cinday123|Talk]])'' 12:24, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

Well I think the hacker who discovered the secret Pokemon is reliable because the Pokemon he found where: Hoopla, Volcanion, Daince, Fancy Vivillon, and the Mega Eon twins. Four out of six have revealed. If we do put in Hoopla and Volcaion when should put a little star (*) like on the list of Pokemon in the a area in the ranger game if you must release them after you catch them. --[[User:AbsolX|AbsolX]] ([[User talk:AbsolX|talk]]) 17:46, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

== Generation VI Sprites ==

Why there are no sprites for the new Pokémon introduced in X and Y? [[User:Dalton358|Dalton358]] ([[User talk:Dalton358|talk]]) 20:25, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
:Because we don't have them and we don't allow taking from other sites without permission. [[User:Glik|Glik]] ([[User talk:Glik|talk]]) 20:33, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
::I figured it would take longer to get them, because it's on a different system. I wonder how the other websites got their images. [[User:Dalton358|Dalton358]] ([[User talk:Dalton358|talk]]) 21:41, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
:::They have 3DS capture cards. Few Bulbapedia users do, and the only ones I've seen with them have been focusing on other things, like Trainer images. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 21:44, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

== Multiple Pokédeces in Generation VI ==
In the Generation VI, there are 3 Pokédeces: Kalos Central, Kalos Coastal and Kalos Mountain. For example:
# Chespin is Kalos Central #001
# Inkay is Kalos Coastal #010
# Goomy is Kalos Mountain #019
The list doesn't reflect it.

-[[User:Iosue|Iosue]] ([[User talk:Iosue|talk]]) 08:27, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
:That's because this is the National Pokédex list. You want [[List of Pokémon by Kalos Pokédex number]]. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 08:32, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
::Of course I understand that. I am not stupid. I can read. What I am suggesting is to add a very small token in front of each Kalos number to indicate if it is Central, Coastal or Mountain, as these are a part of the Generation VI dex. If there is no indication of the sub-region, the column of the table of Generation VI will have limited meaning here. I'd suggest you either delete the whole column, or add the small indication of which sub-region the number belongs to. -[[User:Iosue|Iosue]] ([[User talk:Iosue|talk]]) 04:39, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
:::This is still an issue. Scatterbug and Sligoo are still labeled with the same number in the Kalos Dex without distinction. Also, that column is labelled VIDex, which will be misleading with the release of ORAS. --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 06:55, 17 July 2014 (UTC)
::::I concur with the main issue. Don't write completely undifferentiated numbers as if all you have to do is scroll through one Pokedex to find any given Pokemon; that's not at all the case. Do something like this:
{{rdexh|X|Y|dexname={{color2|000|List of Pokémon by Kalos Pokédex number|VIdex}}}}
{{rdex|001Ce|650|Chespin|1|Grass}}
{{rdex|002Ce|651|Quilladin|1|Grass}}
|}
::::I would also strongly suggest linking the regional 'dex abbreviations in the headers so people can click on them and immediately jump to those 'dexes. (If this were done, this would make "VIdex" less "misleading".) I linked "VIdex" above, and I'll demonstrate the same for the other generations below...
{{rdexh|red|green|dexname={{color2|000|List of Pokémon by Kanto Pokédex number|Kdex}}}}
|}
{{rdexh|gold|silver|dexname={{color2|000|List of Pokémon by Johto Pokédex number|Jdex}}}}
|}
{{rdexh|ruby|sapphire|dexname={{color2|000|List of Pokémon by Hoenn Pokédex number|Hdex}}}}
|}
{{rdexh|diamond|pearl|dexname={{color2|000|List of Pokémon by Sinnoh Pokédex number|Sdex}}}}
|}
{{rdexh|black|white|dexname={{color2|000|List of Pokémon by Unova Pokédex number|Udex}}}}
|}
::::For that matter, I'd also suggest linking "Ndex" similarly in [[Template:Rdexh|the header template]] so it links easily back here on the regional 'dex pages. ...And "Type" could also be linked, just because it's the sort of thing that ''should'' be clickable. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 08:47, 17 July 2014 (UTC)
:::::This is still an issue. Scatterbug and Sligoo are still labeled with the same number in the Kalos Dex without distinction. Also, Diancie needs its Kalos Dex number added (#151 in Central). --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 09:43, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
::::::As Abcboy said, this remains an issue. I have taken the liberty of creating [[User:Tiddlywinks/List of Pokémon by National Pokédex number|a user page]] that fixes the main issue in this discussion. The page also incorporates my idea for 'dex links in the headers, as well as renames the Kalos section's table header from "VIdex", a name that is not proper considering the existence of ORAS now.
::::::I hope someone on staff will take a cursory look at my user page and then copy the code onto this page (give or take the headers, perhaps), so that this issue may finally be solved. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 21:58, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
:::::::Bump... [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 10:29, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

== Color ==

I noticed that the color coordination is not in accord with the Kalos National Pokédex. Shouldn't each region get the appropriate color attributed to them? [[User:Mr. Guye|Mr. Guye]] ([[User talk:Mr. Guye|talk]]) 20:57, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

:Interesting observation. I had never noticed the color coding in the Kalos National Pokédex before, but it's there, and is to my knowledge the first time an official source has used color coding to denote regions.
:Bulbapedia currently uses specific colors for regions, but this particular page uses the colors of the first games taking place in those regions. Perhaps the colors for the tables on this page should be replaced with the region colors. Meanwhile, replacing the region colors themselves with the ones in X and Y is a discussion that should take place but might be too big for this page. I would recommend taking that up with a staff member. --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] [[User talk:AndyPKMN|(talk)]] 18:36, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

== The icon for diancie. ==
Now that Diancie has been released, you guys need to update this page to contain the sprite for diancie so it is no longer a grey question mark. [[User:Randomviewer896|Random Viewer]]

== Flabébé line ==

We've done it for Shaymin, Burmy and Rotom (as well as others) and the sprites are in the Archives, so can an admin (since I can't edit the page) add on the different mini sprites of them, or explain to me why they aren't used on it? Thanks.--[[User:Ditto51|Ditto51/Tom]] ([[User_Talk:Ditto51|My Talk Page]]) 20:47, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

== Save space ==

Welcome. I got the idea, in which a list of Pokemon replace the tiles. It would have saved a lot of space and reduced the site to a minimum. Imagine this:
{|
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #001
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:001Bulbasaur.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Bulbasaur}}}}}
|-
| align=center style="{{roundybl|5px}} background:#{{Grass color}}" width=50% | [[Grass (type)|Grass]]
| align=center style="{{roundybr|5px}}; background:#{{Poison color}}" width=50% | [[Poison (type)|Poison]]
|}
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #002
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:002Ivysaur.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Ivysaur}}}}}
|-
| align=center style="{{roundybl|5px}} background:#{{Grass color}}" width=50% | [[Grass (type)|Grass]]
| align=center style="{{roundybr|5px}}; background:#{{Poison color}}" width=50% | [[Poison (type)|Poison]]
|}
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #003
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:003Venusaur.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Venusaur}}}}}
|-
| align=center style="{{roundybl|5px}} background:#{{Grass color}}" width=50% | [[Grass (type)|Grass]]
| align=center style="{{roundybr|5px}}; background:#{{Poison color}}" width=50% | [[Poison (type)|Poison]]
|}
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #004
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:004Charmander.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Charmander}}}}}
|-
| colspan=2 align=center style="{{roundybottom|5px}} background:#{{Fire color}}" | [[Fire (type)|Fire]]
|}
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #005
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:005Charmeleon.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Charmeleon}}}}}
|-
| colspan=2 align=center style="{{roundybottom|5px}} background:#{{Fire color}}" | [[Fire (type)|Fire]]
|}
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #006
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:006Charizard.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Charizard}}}}}
|-
| align=center style="{{roundybl|5px}} background:#{{Fire color}}" width=50% | [[Fire (type)|Fire]]
| align=center style="{{roundybr|5px}}; background:#{{Flying color}}" width=50% | [[Flying (type)|Flying]]
|}
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #007
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:007Squirtle.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Squirtle}}}}}
|-
| colspan=2 align=center style="{{roundybottom|5px}} background:#{{Water color}}" | [[Water (type)|Water]]
|}
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #008
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:008Wartortle.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Wartortle}}}}}
|-
| colspan=2 align=center style="{{roundybottom|5px}} background:#{{Water color}}" | [[Water (type)|Water]]
|}
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #009
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:009Blastoise.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Blastoise}}}}}
|-
| colspan=2 align=center style="{{roundybottom|5px}} background:#{{Water color}}" | [[Water (type)|Water]]
|}
|}

As you can see images of Pokémon will be bigger and will take less than half the length now. --[[User:Dominikololo|Dominikololo]] ([[User talk:Dominikololo|talk]]) 09:47, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

:I don't necessarily agree with this idea. It looks better and shows off a Pokémon's appearance in full instead of just resorting to the icon, yes, but it's a lot more complex to work with incase there's an error. If you want to make it, you can do it as a personal user page under something like [[User:Dominikololo/Visual National Pokédex]] just to give us a full example. [[User:Superjustinbros.|Superjustinbros.]] ([[User talk:Superjustinbros.|talk]]) 03:30, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

== Generation III ==

Considering the fact the Johto Pokédex part of the Gen II Pokémon section was updated to the newer version from HG/SS, it's probably best we update Hoenn's under the Gen III Pokémon section to the one from ΩR/αS. [[User:Nintendocan|Nintendocan]] ([[User talk:Nintendocan|talk]]) 00:17, 25 December 2014 (UTC)

== Hoopa Unbound and Dex numbers ==

Hoopa's Unbound form needs to be added. Diancie, Hoopa and Volcanion's Dex numbers also. [[User:Asmod96|Asmod96]] ([[User talk:Asmod96|talk]]) 16:09, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

{{rdexh|X|Y|VI}}
{{rdex|150|718|Zygarde|2|Dragon|Ground}}
{{rdex|151|719|Diancie|2|Rock|Fairy}}
{{rdex|152|720|Hoopa|2|Psychic|Ghost}}
{{rdex|152|720U|Hoopa|2|Psychic|Dark}}
{{rdex|153|721|Volcanion|2|Fire|Water}}
|}

== Sun and Moon Legendary Mascots ==

Can someone who has access to editing this page add [http://www.serebii.net/news/2016/20-April-2016.shtml Solgaleo and Lunaala] to the Gen VII list? They have been revealed along with the Alola starters, but remained nameless in the video. --[[User:PKMNAdventurer|PKMNAdventurer]] ([[User talk:PKMNAdventurer|talk]]) 23:16, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
:As you say, they are nameless. Until there is confirmation, we will not be assuming their names. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 23:26, 10 May 2016 (UTC)

== Charjabug and Vikavolt ==

Shouldn't Charjabug and Vikavolt be immediately after Grubbin, seeing as they're its evolutions? [[User:Pokemega32|Pokemega32]] ([[User talk:Pokemega32|talk]]) 13:55, 1 July 2016 (UTC)
:I noticed that too; I think whoever renamed/added them meant to move both Rockruff and Komala down, but somehow missed Rockruff... [[User:AmoongussForLife|AmoongussForLife]] ([[User talk:AmoongussForLife|talk]]) 14:14, 1 July 2016 (UTC)
::Just went to look at it and it seems SnorlaxMonster got it covered. Thanks for pointing it out. Too bad we don't know anything about their official numbering yet, but I guess they want to keep some things (how many 'Mons, for instance" a secret, so meh. [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 17:32, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

== Hippowdon ==

If Unfezant and Frillish line are included twice for both genders, shouldn't Hippowdon be added as well? Their appearance is quite different as well.
Same goes for several other cases, if Hoopa and Meloetta have their forms added, why not Keldeo or Kami trio? Who decides what should appear and what shouldn't, and by what rule??? {{unsigned|KingisNitro}}
:The Hippos, it may be because official art (see [[Hippopotas (Pokémon)]], the big image at the top) AFAIK has never depicted the female forms, while for {{p|Frillish}} and {{p|Unfezant}} it has.
:The difference between Hoopa and Meoetta vs Keldeo and the Kami trio may be that the former change types when they change form. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 16:35, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
::Another contributing reason is that the game does not have gender-specific menu sprites for the Hippopotas family. Together with the lack of a type difference between genders, adding a seperate row for the other gender will not accomplish anything content-wise. [[User:Chenzw|Chenzw]] ([[User talk:Chenzw|talk]]) 16:49, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
:::Basculin is also listed twice, by the way. Vivillon, that also changes menu sprite depending on forms, is only included once (understandably because of how many form differences it has).
:::I mean I was mostly asking, so thanks for "justifying" it. Also, regarding whether it adds anything content-wise - except for the type changing forms, nothing really adds any content (Frillish, Hippos, Unfezant, Basculin, Vivillon), which is why I was puzzled. Didn't seem like there was any actual reason to include multiples. But I guess Sugimori arts are a good enough reason (I just couldn't figure it out). {{unsigned|KingisNitro}}

== Alolan ==

Someone needs to add the recently revealed Pokemon, which I assume would include Alolan Forms (as they all change type.) [[User:AmoongussForLife|AmoongussForLife]] ([[User talk:AmoongussForLife|talk]]) 17:32, 1 August 2016 (UTC)

:No, I think this page is better suited for the Pokémon with their natural Pokémon types to help prevent the page from getting too messy or confusing. This is why separate sub-pages are better suited to handling this such as the [[Mega Evolution]] page. -[[User:Tyler53841|Tyler53841]] ([[User talk:Tyler53841|talk]]) 00:37, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
::FWIW, the Alola Forms' types are no less natural than the forms we've always known. That said, we haven't yet decided whether we want the Alola Forms here or not. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 00:41, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
:::I would think that the Alolan Forms should be added, as the type changes, it appears the Pokémon don't switch between the two (an Ice/Fairy Ninetales would have Ice Vulpix), and multiple entries are added for Darmanitan, which is a similar case. I suppose the second point is mostly speculation at this point, though, but I don't think it would hurt the page overall. [[User:AmoongussForLife|AmoongussForLife]] ([[User talk:AmoongussForLife|talk]]) 01:06, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

== Wimpod's types ==

[[Wimpod]]'s types are Bug/Water, not Water/Bug. Someone should fix it. --[[User:RafaelGN|RafaelGN]] ([[User talk:RafaelGN|talk]]) 03:09, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
:Fixed. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 03:23, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

== Wishiwashi, Pyukumuku, and Morelull ==

This page still lists the japanese names even though the English names are revealed and confirmed and the pages for them use the English names. [[User:AztecCroc|AztecCroc]] ([[User talk:AztecCroc|talk]]) 14:16, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

== Rugarugan ==

Someone needs to add Rugarugan after Rockruff; it's been over a day. [[User:AmoongussForLife|AmoongussForLife]] ([[User talk:AmoongussForLife|talk]]) 17:19, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
:I will try see if I can. [[User:Awesomevenustoise101|Awesomevenustoise101]] ([[User talk:Awesomevenustoise101|talk]]) 17:22, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
::never mind I didn't know that the page is protected. [[User:Awesomevenustoise101|Awesomevenustoise101]] ([[User talk:Awesomevenustoise101|talk]]) 17:23, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
:::It hasn't been added because there is no page for it and it hasn't been officially revealed, it was leaked. The admins know what they are doing and it will be added when it gets added. --[[User:HoennMaster|Hoenn]][[User talk:HoennMaster|Master]] 17:25, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

== why is this page protected? ==

why is this page protected? I want to add Rugarugan after Rockruff but I can't. [[User:Awesomevenustoise101|Awesomevenustoise101]] ([[User talk:Awesomevenustoise101|talk]]) 17:25, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
:Most of the time it doesn't need to be changed, and when it does, we don't want people jumping the gun on rumors and stuff. Things like this we (as staff) update it when it's appropriate to do so. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 17:48, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

== Rowlet National dex number and menu sprites ==

On the [http://www.pokemon-sunmoon.com/en-us/pokemon-bank/ Pokémon Bank page] on the official site, menu sprites for several Gen VII Pokémon have been shown, and Rowlet have been confirmed as #722. Here's direct links for the relevant images: [http://www.pokemon-sunmoon.com/media/uploads/sept_20_assets/screenshots/top/sept20_p12_01_en.png Top screen], [http://www.pokemon-sunmoon.com/media/uploads/sept_20_assets/screenshots/bottom/sept20_p12_01_en.png Bottom screen] - [[User:RHeegaard|RHeegaard]] ([[User talk:RHeegaard|talk]]) 00:21, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

:I'm assuming that the reason only Rowlet, Litten, Popplio, and Pikipek were uploaded is because they are the only ones with numbers (I am curious where you got official evidence of Litten, Popplio, and Pikipek's numbers though?), but would it not be possible to upload the others as "DrampaMS.png" and such so that they can be listed? It would make the table easier to read, I think. It's also what we do with artwork (whereas Pikachu's artwork is [[a:File:025Pikachu.png|File:025Pikachu.png]], Drampa's is [[a:File:Drampa.png|File:Drampa.png]]), so it's not like it goes against Bulbapedia's other efforts. [[User:Nutter Butter|Nutter Butter]] ([[User talk:Nutter Butter|talk]]) 03:05, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
::In large part, most places where menu sprites are used simply ''cannot'' accomodate filenames like DrampaMS (this page being an excellent example of such a place). The few places it might be usable aren't really worth it. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 03:20, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

== Additions ==

Can we add: [[Steenee (Pokémon)]], [[Tsareena (Pokémon)]], [[Hakamo-o (Pokémon)]], [[Ribombee (Pokémon)]]? [[User:Kidburla|Kidburla]] ([[User talk:Kidburla|talk]]) 14:01, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
:They've already been added. --[[User:Carmenstar97|Carmen★]] ''[[User talk:Carmenstar97|(Talk |]] [[Special:Contributions/Carmenstar97|contribs)]]'' 14:02, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
::Thanks. Seems they were added while I was typing the post. [[User:Kidburla|Kidburla]] ([[User talk:Kidburla|talk]]) 16:44, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
:::For future reference, if you just wait, someone will almost assuredly get to it soon enough. (I mean, if someone asked this every time there was a new reveal, this page would probably quickly end up bloated.) If it's 24 hours later, ''then'' it's late. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 16:50, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

== Oricorio ==

How come {{p|Castform}} has all of its forms on the list but {{p|Oricorio}} doesn't? --[[User:PKMNAdventurer|PKMNAdventurer]] ([[User talk:PKMNAdventurer|talk]]) 00:06, 6 January 2017 (UTC)
:Personally, it could be due to the criteria, but I cannot tell. So, here is a hopefully complete list of what Pokémon with multiple menu sprites appear and which do not.
:From the group that does appear: Unfezant (Gender difference), Frillish (Gender), Jellicent (Gender), Castform (Ability), Deoxys (Form), Burmy (Form), Wormadam (Form), Shellos (Form), Gastrodon (Form), Rotom (Form), Giratina (Item), Shaymin (Item), Basculin (Form), Darmanitan (Ability), Meloetta (Move), Hoopa (Item), All Alolan Pokémon (Form)
:From the group that does ''not'' appear: Pyroar (Gender difference), Meowstic (Gender), Ash-Greninja (Ability), Zygarde (Forme), Kyurem (Item), Cosplay Pikachu (Form), Pikachu (Unknown), Spiky-eared Pichu (Form), Unown (Form), Cherrim (Ability), Arceus (Item), Flabébé (Form), Floette (Form), Florges (Form), Deerling (Form), Sawsbuck (Form), Tornadus (Item), Thundurus (Item), Landorus (Item), Keldeo (Move), Vivillon (Form), Furfrou (Form), Aegislash (Ability), Oricorio (Item), Silvally (Item), Minior (Ability), All Mega/Primal Evolution Pokémon (Item/Move),
:...So, basically, I would guess that this might have been potentially overlooked. Who is to say? Granted, I do understand that Unown, Vivillon, Arceus, and Silvally likely are excluded for a good reason. --[[User:Super goku|Super goku]] ([[User talk:Super goku|talk]]) 07:19, 6 January 2017 (UTC)
::IMO, there definitely should be Oricorio with all its form, I thought that only forms with different type combination are added, but if there are also some gender differences... I even think there should be Mega Evolutions, if we will be adding forms. [[User:Asmod96|Asmod96]] ([[User talk:Asmod96|talk]]) 08:13, 16 February 2017 (UTC)
:::Most of these are probably missing because, as was mentioned in my "Hippowdon" question, they don't have official Sugimori art. Frillish has official art for both genders, while Hippowdon doesn't, hence it doesn't get two pictures. P weird reasonong, but I guess it works; Oricorio DOES have official art (in fact, most mentioned Pokemon do) and the forms change typing (good enough reason if you ask me), so I think someone should add them. Also, why can't we merge the forms into a single line (similarly to [[Pokémon with unique type combinations]] page)? {{unsigned|KingisNitro}}
::::The most important thing to remember, I think, is that this is a list of Pokémon species. It's not a list of minisprites. It's not even a list of Pokémon's types—those are included supplementarily. And it's ''certainly'' not a list of Ken Sugimori art.
::::On that note, I think the inclusion and exclusion of form differences should follow a less horrendously arbitrary standard. Either A) all forms with unique minisprites or types are included, or B) only one form per species is included, determined by a consistent criterion. If we go with A, I absolutely agree with KingisNitro that they should be merged into a single row, since it makes no sense to list the same species multiple times in a list of species. If we go B, I propose that the criterion be "whichever form is leftmost in Pokémon Bank's National Pokédex", since this is consistently a form that can be considered the most basic or "default".
::::So the question is, A or B? Should we put it up to a vote? [[User:Randomwaffle23|Randomwaffle23]] ([[User talk:Randomwaffle23|talk]]) 02:27, 4 September 2017 (UTC)
:::::I am going to mention that this technically is over six month old, but I will say that if anyone wants to put this up for a vote or needs to make a new section to discuss this can go ahead. Though, I do want to note that we now have issues with Pokémon like Togekiss who have two menu sprites just for which side they are facing. --[[User:Super goku|Super goku]] ([[User talk:Super goku|talk]]) 07:05, 14 September 2017 (UTC)
:This is still not "fixed". If castform's forms count then I really do think many of the others should be included as well. Maybe not all Unown or Vivillon forms since they're purely cosmetic. I do think forms that change type or stats should be included (like Necrozma or Zygarde forms...) -[[User:Jor1ss|Jor1ss]] ([[User talk:Jor1ss|talk]]) 17:04, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
::So, personally, I'm sorry that this keeps getting forgotten. On the other hand, even now, I can't muster enough of myself to "care" about it to check everything and do it up right... If someone wants to create a user page, we can look at it and see what's different and decide how much should be added. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 22:44, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
:::I'd love to help with adding them but maybe I can't because my account is only 1 day old? I'm also not sure what having a userpage would do for adding to the list? Isn't a userpage just a page for each user? I'm very new here so I don't really know what to do sorry. -[[User:Jor1ss|Jor1ss]] ([[User talk:Jor1ss|talk]]) 06:48, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

==Alola==

At the very top of the page, it still doesn't list Alola with the rest of the regions. [[User:AmoongussForLife|AmoongussForLife]] ([[User talk:AmoongussForLife|talk]]) 10:53, 17 January 2017 (UTC)

== Alolan Pokedex number of new Pokemon ==

The ADex numbers of Poipole, Naganadel, Stakataka, Blacephalon, and Zeraora should be changed to 261, 262, 392, 393, and 403 respectively. [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 18:13, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
:I'm not sure if this kind of a "noisy post" or "bump" is allowed, but I need to somehow get someone to pay attention to this. [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 02:00, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

== Gliscor sprite missing ==

the Gliscor Sprite is missing, can't edit to put it in [[User:Yamitora1|Yamitora1]] ([[User talk:Yamitora1|talk]]) 17:57, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

That's just an error on your end. [[User:AztecCroc|AztecCroc]] ([[User talk:AztecCroc|talk]]) 22:04, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

== Spin-off Pokedexes? ==

Sort of an off-topic but idk where else to ask; do we have Pokedexes for side/spin-off games (Rumble, Mystery Dungeon, Pinball, Ranger, Trozei/Shuffle...)? I think it would be neat to list the Pokemon with places to find them/other important information. If so - where, if not - why? If I made them on my page, could they be added to Bulba? (Where else can I ask this question?) ~[[User:KingisNitro|'''KingisNitro''']] ([[User talk:KingisNitro|talk]]) 01:04, 12 November 2018 (UTC)
:As seen in the List of Pokémon template below the articles, yes, we do have Pokédex listing of other/spin-off games. Unless there's another listing you want to suggest.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 03:32, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

== Meltan and Melmetal should not be under "generation VII" category ==

Officially, meltan and melmetal are under the region "unknown" and as such they should both be under that new category. furthermore, their pokedex numbers are 808 and 809 officially too.
{{unsigned|Supermassimo}}
:Well, I see what you mean but this list is sorted by generation. And those Pokémon were indeed introduced in the generation it says they were. --[[User:Raltseye|Raltseye]] [[User talk:Raltseye|prata med mej]] 14:08, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

::By that logic though, shouldn't Marill and Togepi be listed as generation 1 pokemon, Munchlax as a generation 3 pokemon and Magearna as a generation 6 pokemon? In fact, every single generation other than the first had a pokemon revealed in some medium before the release of the main games and this is especially true of mythicals. (Victini is in a similar situation to Meltan being listed just after the gen 4 mythicals and before the gen 5 starters even though it is considered gen 5 itself)

::In fact, the only difference is that all these other pokemon were typically revealed in movies or the anime whereas Meltan/Melmetal are playable in Pokemon Go/Let's Go. That said, these are still just spinoff games (which actually don't even have any other gen 7 pokemon in them other than alolan forms) and neither Meltan nor Melmetal are available in any mainline gen 7 games. Finally, Pokemon Go goes as far as to classify Meltan's region as "Unknown" whereas it could have easily been listed as Alola if it was intended to be a gen 7 pokemon. (And Magearna has nothing to do with either Kalos nor Alola but is still classified as "Gen 7" in the Sun/Moon pokedex.

::Sorry, for the long rant but my point is that strictly speaking the situation for Meltan/Melmetal is "Unknown" and ideally this should be reflected on the page to avoid speculating. However, if people insist on assigning a region/generation to it, I think it's far more likely to be "Galar"/"Gen 8" and not "Alola". Just my 2 cents. [[User:MCX|MCX]] ([[User talk:MCX|talk]]) 21:52, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
:::I would agree with your logic if not for your assumption that LGPE are not mainline games. They are core Pokémon games, which has been reiterated multiple times by Masuda and the others at GF. Since they’re catchable and playable in a mainline Gen VII game, they’re Gen VII Pokémon. That’s what separates them from cases like Bonsly, which I think would have been a much better example than Marill or Munchlax. --[[User:Celadonkey|celadonk]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 12:47, 18 March 2019 (UTC)
::::I'm still not convinced that it's relevant nor that it's the case that LGPE are core titles. I'm not sure which interview you are referring to when saying that Masuda has stated that LGPE are core games but afaik Sword and Shield were first announced as the unnamed 2019 mainline Switch games in e3 2017. Then LGPE were announced at a later time and people were giving GF crap until they clarified that LGPE weren't the same as the previously announced 2019 titles. Correct me if I remember any of this incorrectly but if not, this would indicate that LGPE are something less than core games. If LGPE are core games that's the equivalent of GF announcing Sun/Moon after XY and then saying "oh btw, before SM we are gonna release gen 3 remakes, they aren't the same games as SM, we just thought we should announce gen 7 first." Yeah, LGPE are much closer gameplay-wise to the core games than, say, mystery dungeon or pokemon pinball but they are also not quite there.

::::Moreover, even if Masuda has said in an interview "LGPE are core titles", I'm still not sure if that is relevant in classifying Meltan's gen. LGPE don't have Crobat or Electivire or any gen 2-7 pokemon but they have Megas and Alolan forms and Meltan. This is just a weird situation where they used Meltan as a promo thing - not at all an indication that it's gen 7. They've even dropped mainline mechanics like breeding and abilities... Meltan being there doesn't conclusively prove anything. I doubt we will get any official statement like "Btw Meltan belongs in X gen" but we are still probably going to get a conclusive answer when they colour code Meltan along with either the gen 7 or gen 8 pokemon in some future title's pokedex. I'm just saying that until then we should keep its status as "Unknown" because that's what it currently is. [[User:MCX|MCX]] ([[User talk:MCX|talk]]) 23:49, 26 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::You can check the interview section in the LGPE guidebook if you don't believe that he explicitly has said that they're core titles. "These games aren't spinoffs. These are core Pokémon titles" is the exact quote. Since Meltan and Melmetal appeared in Gen 7 core titles, they're Gen 7 Pokemon. Simple enough. If for whatever reason they change that, then we'll change that too. But we don't really have any reason to believe otherwise. --[[User:Celadonkey|celadonk]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 23:56, 26 March 2019 (UTC)

== Request to add Trivia section ==

I would like to see a Trivia section added to the bottom of the list, with the following single item:

* With the sole exception of {{p|Type: Null}}, all English Pokémon names in this list are also used for Italian and Spanish languages. The names for '''Type: Null''' in Italian and Spanish are, respectively, ''Tipo Zero'' and ''Código Cero''.

This is to avoid the need for any separate '''List of Italian Pokémon names''' and '''List of Spanish Pokémon names''' pages that would differ from this English page by ONLY ONE ROW. ''(Currently, those two page titles are redirects to the English list.)'' --[[User:SilSinn9801|''SilSinn'']] ([[TID]]s: '''768426[[Pokémon Sun|S]]''', '''123446[[Pokémon Ultra Moon|UM]]''') ([[User talk:SilSinn9801|talk]]) 10:01, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

==Gen 8 Starters==
Grookey, Scorbunny, and Sobble would be National Pokedex 810, 813, and 816. Can these numbers please be added? [[User:Kimichael4317|Kimichael4317]] ([[User talk:Kimichael4317|talk]]) 05:38, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
:We do not actually ''know'' that so no, they won't be added. --[[User:Raltseye|Raltseye]] [[User talk:Raltseye|prata med mej]] 05:43, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
::We have no guarantee as to whether there would be another Victini-like scenario where a Mythical Pokémon would be enumerated right before the starters (as happened in Unova, twice). Hence why we cannot safely assume 810, 813, 816 – it could end up being 811, 814, 817. ‑‑[[User:SilSinn9801|''SilSinn'']] ([[TID]]s: '''768426[[Pokémon Sun|S]]''', '''123446[[Pokémon Ultra Moon|UM]]''') [[User talk:SilSinn9801|💬]] 07:52, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

== Zekrom has an extra space next to his name. ==

That is all. {{unsigned|MrKarato}}
:Fixed. And don't forget to sign your comments.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 06:01, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

== Handling forms + smaller suggestions ==

As far as I can tell there's no pattern to how forms are handled on this page. Some Pokémon with alternate forms or major gender differences have their forms present, others do not. Frankly, since it’s a list of Pokémon species according to their number, no Pokémon with form differences should be even included in a different line. Either the alternate forms should be removed entirely, only including the “base” form, or the lines should be combined like on List of Pokémon with unique type combinations. Personally, I'd prefer to have no forms displayed-- it would make the page a whole lot cleaner and easier to use-- but I can see the purpose of displaying forms, so I think that something like this would be best:

{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{firered color}}; background: #{{firered color}}"
! style="{{roundytl|5px}}; background: #{{leafgreen color light}}" | Kdex
! style="background: #{{leafgreen color light}}" | Ndex
! style="background: #{{leafgreen color light}}" | MS
! style="background: #{{leafgreen color light}}" | Pokémon
! style="{{roundytr|5px}}; background: #{{leafgreen color light}}" colspan="2" | Type</noinclude>
|- style="background:#FFF"
| rowspan="2" style="font-family:monospace" | <nowiki>#</nowiki>026
| rowspan="2" style="font-family:monospace" | <nowiki>#</nowiki>026
| {{MSP|026|Raichu}}
| rowspan="2" | {{p|Raichu}}
| colspan="2" style="text-align:center; background:#{{electric color}}" | [[Electric (type)|Electric]]
|- style="background:#FFF"
| {{MSP|026A|Raichu}}
| style="text-align:center; background:#{{electric color}}" | [[Electric (type)|Electric]]
| style="text-align:center; background:#{{psychic color}}" | [[Psychic (type)|Psychic]]
|}

Again, I think that not displaying forms would be the best way to go, but either way, the current system of handling forms is unsatisfactory, both in the inconsistency between which forms are shown and which are not, and in the actual formatting of the forms.

Additionally, I have two smaller suggestions. First, I believe that it would be better to display the National Pokédex number before the regional Pokédex number, rather than vice versa, as this is a page on the National Pokédex, and that should take priority. Second, at the end of each section, there is no roundy template on the bottom, as you can see above, which makes the bottom of each section square and not as aesthetically pleasing. --[[User:Celadonkey|celadonk]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 20:05, 29 March 2019 (UTC)

The problem with formes/forms is that there's many different kinds of forms. There's only visual forms (most male female differences/unown forms etc) and there's forms where the stats change (meowstic male/female for instance). There's forms where the typing changes (Wormadom/Necrozma's various forms). There's temporary forms that are only visible in battle (megas/greninja/cherubi). There's temporary forms that are changed by using an item or by depositing the pokemon or by whatever arbitrary reason (giratina/tornadus etc.). There's also regional forms, where a pokemon cannot change to the other form but is basically a different pokemon altogether (alolan and soon galarian forms). Maybe the list should just include all the base forms? And then there could be a seperate table listing all the additional forms for a pokemon?[[User:Jor1ss|Jor1ss]] ([[User talk:Jor1ss|talk]]) 12:40, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

== Information to readers ==

I want to modify the title section, but I have no permission. Could someone add the sentence “All English, Italian and Spanish Pokémon names are identical, but, depending on the language, they're pronounced differently.”? --[[User:TheICTLiker4|'''TheICT''']][[User talk:TheICTLiker4|'''Liker4''']] 18:19, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
:That's not relevant to the article at all.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 04:13, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
::Well, most european languages use the same names as the English version anyway, in fact only German and French are the the ones that consistently differ. Unless you count the languages that use a different alphabet, only Serbian, Lithuanian and some more perhaps are the only ones that does not use the standard English names instead transcribing it to their own orthography. So I see no really point in mentioned them all here. A simple line like <code>most other languages using the Latin alphabet also uses these names</code> would suffice in my opinion.
::I'm thinking maybe if it's okay with the staff around to make redirect for <code>List of Swedish/Icelandic/Spanish/Romanian/etc. Pokémon names</code> to this page.
::Otherwise, if you're interested, at least one Spanish and Italian name do actually differ from the English name, {{p|Type: Null}}. I've made list articles about which names I have found being used in other languages [[User:Raltseye/Template:Pokelist|here]].
::--[[User:Raltseye|Raltseye]] [[User talk:Raltseye|prata med mej]] 13:43, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

== Yamper and Impidimp ==

They're not on here for some reason? Can someone who can edit this page fix that?[[User:AztecCroc|AztecCroc]] ([[User talk:AztecCroc|talk]]) 13:33, 15 June 2019 (UTC)

== Aug 7 Trailer - New Pokémon ==

In the newest trailer, two new Pokémon (Obstagoon and Morpeko), as well as the Galarian forms of Weezing, Zigzagoon, and Linoone were revealed. I don't see them listed on this page yet, those Impidimp, which has still not been officially revealed is. [[User:CMP|CMP]] ([[User talk:CMP|talk]]) 18:46, 9 August 2019 (UTC)

== Missing ==

Currently, Galarian Meowth is missing from this list. [[User:MarioMiner|MarioMiner]] ([[User talk:MarioMiner|talk]]) 03:00, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

== Dex Shortcuts ==

Can we get the dex shortcuts removed or redirected correctly? They're just redirecting to the top of this page. [[User:Joe kik as|Joe kik as]] ([[User talk:Joe kik as|talk]]) 17:33, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
:That's the point of the shortcuts. They're just redirects of this article, and they're there for reference.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 04:32, 15 January 2020 (UTC)
::But why is it at the top of the page if it's just redirecting to the top. If anything it should redirect to different pages corresponding to those links. [[User:Joe kik as|Joe kik as]] ([[User talk:Joe kik as|talk]]) 16:32, 15 January 2020 (UTC)
:::I already said why, they're there for reference. To let users know which shortcut to type out in the search bar if they wanted to find this article easier (since typing out the entire title would be a hassle). The other dex listings also have shortcuts that lead to their respective articles.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 16:55, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

== Ndex as the first column ==

I think the Ndex number should probably be the first column. This is the main subject of this list.

The Ndex is currently the 2nd column, which seems like a secondary position. (even though in the case of the first 151 Pokémon, the numbers are the same) --[[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 10:14, 31 January 2020 (UTC)
:{{template|rdex}} is convenient. I don't think it's that big an issue to make another template just for this. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 03:23, 1 February 2020 (UTC)
::I'm with Daniel here. This is a list of Pokemon by National Pokedex number. Surely that should be the primary focus. --[[User:Celadonkey|celadonk]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 18:19, 1 February 2020 (UTC)
:::I could do the job of creating a new template and editing this page if this idea is accepted. It could be simply a new template based on {{template|rdex}} with reverse parameters. A possible name could be {{template|nrdex}} (since {{template|ndex}} is taken) .--[[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 00:50, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
::::The header is the only thing here that would need to be changed if this were to be done. --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 01:05, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
:::::Aside from that, we may also want to reverse the order of the numbers for each Pokémon in [[List of Pokémon by National Pokédex number]], to make the wikitext match the resulting page. I can do this if needed. --[[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 02:38, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

== Pokémon with different forms not present in the list ==

I don't understand the criteria for Pokémon with different forms, by the type of them:

Gender differences : We do not include the forms of Indeedee, Pyroar and Meowstic, But we allow Unfezant, Frillish and Jellycent?

Different permanent forms but with the same typing: Lycanrock and Toxtricity. But it allows other permanent forms, e.g. Shellos, Gastrodont and Basculin.

Different Forms and different types: Kyurem and Necruzma. But allows Castform, Rotom, Melloeta, Hoopa, Shaymin and Oricorio.

Different Battle forms but same types: Wishiwashi, Cherrim, Landorus, Thundurus, Tornadus, Kyurem, Keldeo, Greninja, Zygarde and Minior are not included. But Deoxis and Gyratina are on the list.

No applicable to the above criteria: Unown, Arceus, Deerling, Sawsbuck, Vivillon, The Flabébé Family and Furfrou. But we do have Burmy and Wormadam and Urshifu. (I understand that the Pokémon in this las criteria have a lot of forms, and that the reason of not their including is for space and order in the page)

Can some one please explain me the criteria for allowing the different forms selection?

--Neos 10:19, April 16 2020 (UTC)
:Yeah, it does seem rather arbitrary to me.

:I think I've mentioned this above but this page is a list of Pokemon by number first and foremost. Including forms at all, imo, muddles the numbering up, at least for me. --[[User:Celadonkey|celadonk]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 13:48, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

::I think we should take out the unnecessary forms --[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 00:36, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

== You forgot NDex# of Galarian Slowking ==

Force Fire: You added NDex numbers for Galarian forms of Slowbro & the Legendary Birds (even if no menu sprites exist for them yet), but you forgot Galarian Slowking:
<pre>{{rdex||???|Slowking|1|???}}</pre>
Given this page is protected, I cannot change the page myself; could you please provisionally change that line to:
<pre>{{rdex||199G|Slowking|1|???}}</pre>
‐⁠‑''[[User:SilSinn9801|SilSinn]]'' ([[TID]]s: '''768426[[Pokémon Sun|S]]''', '''123446[[Pokémon Ultra Moon|UM]]''') [[User talk:SilSinn9801|💬]] 17:01, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
:Fixed --[[User:Spriteit|Spriteit]] ([[User talk:Spriteit|talk]]) 01:21, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
::This page needs to be edited as Galarian Slowking's type was confirmed to be Poison/Psychic like Galarian Slowbro was. [[User:Kangaflora|Kangaflora]] ([[User talk:Kangaflora|talk]]) 19:01, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

== 891-893 ==

Pokemon Home's Pokedex , after this morning's patch, seems to confirm that Kubfu, Urshifu, and Zarude are numbers 891, 892, and 893 respectively. That is all. Sorry if this text is really big for some reason.{{unsigned|Zigzagoon97}}

== (Understandable) Style Inconsistencies ==

To be consistent with the style of the page before the Crown Tundra was released, only Calyrex's base form should be present, as neither Kyurem (which, admittedly, does not change type) nor Necrozma (which does change type, and thus should be treated exactly the same way as Calyrex) have their fusion forms present on this list. Alternatively, including Necrozma's forms, and possibly Kyurem's forms, would solve this issue. [[User:MarioMiner|MarioMiner]] ([[User talk:MarioMiner|talk]]) 22:58, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
:Another style inconsistency - in the Generation IV section of the page, Heatran, Regigigas, Cresselia, Phione, Darkrai, Shaymin, and Arceus, the Gen IV Pokémon without Sinnoh Pokédex numbers, have their portions of the "Sdex" column blank. However, Meltan, Melmetal, Kubfu, Urshifu, Zarude, Regieleki, Regidrago, Glastrier, Spectrier, and Calyrex, all Pokémon that do not appear in their respective generations' regional Pokédexes, have "#---" in their regional Pokédex (Adex for Meltan and Melmetal, Gdex for the rest) columns. [[User:MarioMiner|MarioMiner]] ([[User talk:MarioMiner|talk]]) 00:06, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

== Zygarde's Forms ==
Zygard seems to be the only Pokémon currently missing alternate forms.
[[User:RomajiMiltonAmulo|RomajiMiltonAmulo]] ([[User talk:RomajiMiltonAmulo|talk]]) 01:45, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

== Legends: Arceus Pokémon ==

Are the Pokémon and Regional Forms that were shown in the new [[Pokémon Legends: Arceus]] trailer going to be added now or when the game releases? -[[User:Ratboy Jr.|Ratboy Jr.]] ([[User talk:Ratboy Jr.|talk]]) 22:40, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

== Mega Aerodactyl needs to be added. ==

A couple Megas were forgotten to be added. Could you please scout through and add them? {{unsigned|Necrozma800}}
:They are left out for a reason, Mega Evolutions are not completely new species, they are a transformed state of the same base species.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 07:06, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

== Legends arceus pokemon ==

We need numbers for Basculegion, wyrdeer, Kleavor, we need these pokemon added Overqwil, Enamorus, Ursaluna, and Sneasler. Dex numbers (national) are : 899 is Wyrdeer 900 is Kleavor 901 is Ursaluna 902 is Basculegion 903 is Sneasler 904 is Overqwil, 905 is Enamorus, so yeah [[User:ItsRobloxHere|ItsRobloxHere]] ([[User talk:ItsRobloxHere|talk]]) 00:24, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

== H.Goodra's typing ==

it should be Steel/Dragon, not Dragon/Steel.
[[User:Anzasquiddles|Anzasquiddles]] ([[User talk:Anzasquiddles|talk]]) 05:56, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

== Hisuian Braviary's MSP, and Origin Formes for Dialga and Palkia ==

Well, the second point is more of a question. I see there's plenty of contention on the matter of form-inclusion, but Giratina's Origin Forme is on the list so I thought I'd mention it.
[[User:Pichugetic|Pichugetic]] ([[User talk:Pichugetic|talk]]) 01:06, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

: Oh, just noticed: also Hisuian Avalugg. [[User:Pichugetic|Pichugetic]] ([[User talk:Pichugetic|talk]]) 07:31, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

== Unfezant, Frillish and Jellycent: only one entry per Pokémon? ==

For the majority of Pokémon, only the male appearence is shown. However, it does not apply for Shellos, Gastrodon, Unfezant, Frillish and Jellycent. Shellos and Gastrodon are region-based in several (all?) games, so displaying both appearances is justified, but it does not apply for Unfezant, Frillish and Jellycent. So is there something special about those 3 Pokémon that grants 2 entries for each of them in the list? [[User:Y2110|Y2110]] ([[User talk:Y2110|talk]]) 11:42, 21 May 2022 (UTC)

EDIT: Oh, it has already been discussed on this page. My bad

== 3D Sprites ==
[[File:001MS8.png|thumb|right|68px|SwSh Bulbasaur (68px)]]
[[File:902MS.png|thumb|right|68px|PLA Basculegion (68px)]]
[[File:HOME001.png|thumb|right|60px|HOME Bulbasaur (60px)]]
[[File:HOME902.png|thumb|right|60px|HOME Basculegion (60px)]]

Why have the 2D sprites been changed to the 3D Pokemon Home ones? The 3D sprites mesh horribly with the tables and lists, take up too much space, and have too much color and detail making it hard to focus on anything but the sprites themselves. I can understand wanting to upgrade but sometimes less is more especially for someone who has sensitive eyes or ADHD. There could at least be an option to select whether you what to view 2D or 3D sprites.[[User:Strawhatroger|Strawhatroger]] ([[User talk:Strawhatroger|talk]]) 16:57, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
:It's a necessity. We already had too much inconsistency between sprites from SwSh, LGPE, PLA and older ones, soon we'll get another ones for SV which would make it even worse. Fortunately HOME sprite are very consistent and exist for alternate forms. They don't take more space because previously we already had big 68px squares.--'''[[User:Team Rocket Grunt|Rocket]] [[User talk:Team Rocket Grunt|Grunt]]''' 17:34, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

The HOME sprites pop out way too much and are too bright hurting my eyes making it very difficult to do thing like look at lists without straining my eyes.[[User:Strawhatroger|Strawhatroger]] ([[User talk:Strawhatroger|talk]]) 17:55, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

::I've added some Bulbasaur and Basculegion image examples at the top of this discussion now.
::As TRG was saying, the list with 2D sprites was using inconsistent styles (including 2D sprites from SwSh like that Bulbasaur, and 3D face portraits from PLA like that Basculegion). We may have 2D sprites for most of the currently available Pokémon, but not all of them.
::Since you mentioned the size, let me point out that those 2D sprites typically were 68px images with white space around the Pokémon (a lot of white space in my opinion). I've changed them to those 3D images with 60px size, so they are occupying less space than before.
::For instance, it seems there are at least 1,000 lines on these tables, so the page should be approximately 8,000 pixels shorter than before with the current 3D sprites.
::Although to be fair, the image size can be changed in the template so it could become smaller or larger if needed. If anyone thinks that the 2D sprites with a lot of whitespace around looked good, it's also possible to add whitespace around the 3D images (without needing to edit the images). --[[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 18:43, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

:::Did someone reverted the 3D sprites? now they are back to the 2D ones.
:::I really support the idea of using the HOME menu sprites for this page and for what I have seen in the latest SV trailers the classic Menu minisprites are now gone. So by using as the source of sprites HOME we will be sure that's there will be a unify menu art style. --[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 21:57, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

::::Yes. The change was reverted back to the 2D sprites, pending further discussion. Sorry for the trouble. --[[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 23:01, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

Finally! Someone who actually listens to other people's opinions and uses common sense. I've looked at any trailer and screenshot of SV I could find and if anything it looks like 2D sprites will be returning, and if it really comes down to it perhaps we can just use the official artwork since it's easier on the eyes.[[User:Strawhatroger|Strawhatroger]] ([[User talk:Strawhatroger|talk]]) 05:02, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

==Urshifu and Female Pokémon==

Since the two forms of Urshifu shared a menusprite, the Home art for Rapid Strike style Urshifu will have to be added manually globally. I don't think there is another Pokémon with this issue. Female Pokémon such as Unfezant, Jellicent, etc. will also have to be added manually. And since they are included, the female forms of Meowstic, Indeedee, Basculegion and Pyroar should have their own entries as well. Or none of them should. Just make it consistent. Necrozma is also missing its forms, even though they change type. '''[[User:Oneofthosedf|Oneofthosedf]] [[User talk:Oneofthosedf|(talk)]] [[Special:Contributions/Oneofthosedf|(contribs)]]''' 18:00, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
:I'm wondering if we should change female forms manually or the HOME images could be renamed. I'm fine with both, but I'd like to know what to do.--'''[[User:Team Rocket Grunt|Rocket]] [[User talk:Team Rocket Grunt|Grunt]]''' 19:02, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

::Yeah, I'm adding the Urshifu sprite to move pages, but I'll wait with Indeedee and Meowstic, as a simple redirect would solve those issues as opposed to Urshifu. '''[[User:Oneofthosedf|Oneofthosedf]] [[User talk:Oneofthosedf|(talk)]] [[Special:Contributions/Oneofthosedf|(contribs)]]''' 19:46, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

== Forms of Pokémon that should be added into this list ==

I know that I spoke about this more that two years ago, but there are a lot of inconsistencies in the list regarding which Pokémon forms get to be in this list and which don't, I get that Gigantamax and Mega's aren't allowed in this list, but there are Pokémon that have very different forms ranging from Gender, alternative and even different learnset's, and I think that they should be added into the list as well because there are pokemon that share the exact situation has the ones that I'm going to propose that are already on the list.

Candidates for inclusion on the list based in multiple criteria:

By gender extreme differences:

Indeedee Female

Pyroar Female

Meowstic Female

Basculegion Female

(Pokémon subject to this criteria that are already present on the list with Male and Female forms are: Unfezant, Frillish and Jellycent)

Pokemon with special forms that can't be changed:

Lycanrock Midnight form

Lycanrock Dusk form

Toxtricity Low Key form

Sandy Cloak Wormadam

Trash Cloak Wormadam

(Pokémon subject to this criteria that have different forms already present on the list are: Shellos, Gastrodont, Basculin and Urshifu)

Diferent Fusions with different Types:

White Kyurem

Black Kyurem

Dusk Mane Necrozma

Dawn Wings Necrozma

Ultra Necrozma

Pokemon with the capability of change between forms upon different scenarios:

Wishiwashi School form

Cherrim Sunshine form

Landorus Therian form

Thundurus Therian form

Tornadus Therian form

Enamorus Therian form

Keldeo Resolute form

Zygarde 10% form

Zygarde 100% form

(Pokémon subject to this criteria that have different forms already present on the list are: Castform, Rotom, Melloeta, Hoopa, Shaymin, Oricorio, Deoxis, Dialga, Palkia and Gyratina)

Please consider adding the proposed forms listed above, or consider delisting the Pokémon forms that are already present in parentheses at the end of each category, since if the Pokémons requested to be added are not added personally I don't see a justified reason to keep the extra forms that are present at the moment.

--[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 18:23, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

Also this should be more easy now that we have the Pokémon HOME models for this list --[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 18:28, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

:Being as long as it is, I think adding on to the list uneccessarily unless its a non-battle form change that changes the user's type. That being said, there are some forms missing that can be added, and I agree that some of the listings, like the gender differences, are superfluous. - [[User:Chosen|Chosen]] ([[User talk:Chosen|Talk]]) 01:11, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

{{indent}}These and many forms have (mostly) been added. You can see [[User:Tiddlywinks/List of Pokémon by National Pokédex number|here]] a list of forms that were not included (as of pre-SV). Generally, forms for abandoned mechanics (like Megas) are excluded.

These details could change with discussion. I know that all forms are pretty much in HOME, which may argue for adding Megas and such. (If we do do that, I feel like we should throw in Spiky-eared Pichu and other non-HOME forms too.) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 06:10, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

:If I may make suggestions, I think that form names could be split into new lines with <nowiki> </nowiki>tag like it is done on many pages already. How about adding generation number to each Pokémon so new people would know they can't have Alolan Pokemon in games like FRLG despite existing in LGPE? What about slight cellpadding so these files won't look so squeezed? Also, there's a small mistake with Cramorant's type and tables aren't curved at the bottom.--'''[[User:Team Rocket Grunt|Rocket]] [[User talk:Team Rocket Grunt|Grunt]]''' 08:10, 8 November 2022 (UTC)
::Personally, I'm not all about line breaks. IDK about anyone else, but at times I'll just copy a column/table straight from the page, and line breaks mess with that. (And comparing, say, the type pages, I'm not wowed by the difference in presentation. I could even argue that this format is better.)
::I did actually consider adding a column for game introduced, but I didn't get any feedback about that idea and didn't quite feel like mocking it up, so that part is completely untested.
::If you want to suggest what you think looks good for padding, I can see. But IMO it's "fine" for now. /shrug
::Roundy is about the last thing I'm worried about honestly. If I work on the list again, I may see about it. (It's definitely not worth adding some condition to the templates.) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 22:18, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

==Eternal Floette==

Not included on this page (should be) and all it had was the menusprite. It will need a redirect. Probably [[File:AZ's Floette.png|90px]] will do. '''[[User:Oneofthosedf|Oneofthosedf]] [[User talk:Oneofthosedf|(talk)]] [[Special:Contributions/Oneofthosedf|(contribs)]]''' 19:46, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

== Pokedex Arts ==

I really like that we change the classic 2D menusprites for the 2D Sugimori art for each Pokémon, since not all of them have menusprites and it most certain that in the future the old menusprites will not be used in games, we need to have a consistent art style.--[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 15:35, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

:Couldn't agree more, thank you guys for finally making this happen. Looks awesome. '''[[User:Oneofthosedf|Oneofthosedf]] [[User talk:Oneofthosedf|(talk)]] [[Special:Contributions/Oneofthosedf|(contribs)]]''' 22:42, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

I see that most forms have been cleaned up, but Basculin has only 2 of its 33 forms in the list.--[[User:Jor1ss|Jor1ss]] ([[User talk:Jor1ss|talk]]) 14:45, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
I obviously meant 3 and not 33 but it won't let me change it without signing it again.--[[User:Jor1ss|Jor1ss]] ([[User talk:Jor1ss|talk]]) 14:47, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
== Isle of Armor, Crown Tundra, Hisui, and Paldea dex numbers ==
* Hello, I'd like to request addition of Pokédex numbers for the Isle of Armor, Crown Tundra, and Hisui Pokémon. Just use the sup|Isle of Armor and sup|Crown Tundra for the IoA/CT Pokémon, add an LADex column for Hisui Pokémon.
Also, we have a few Paldea Pokédex numbers, they are: Sprigatito #001, Fuecoco #004, Quaxly #007, Lechonk #010, Pawmi #022, Fidough #076. Thanks, [[User:PinkYoshiGaming|PinkYoshiGaming]] ([[User talk:PinkYoshiGaming|talk]]) 17:26, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

== Cramorant's type ==

Cramorant's types are maldisplayed on gen 8 table. The article is locked so I hope this could be fixed soon. [[User:Saphir|Saphir]] ([[User talk:Saphir|talk]]) 12:27, 8 November 2022 (UTC)
:Thanks for pointing it out. (Also TRG.) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 22:21, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

== Gen 9 Dex numbers are largely incorrect ==

The numbers here are their index number in the data, not their National Dex numbers which we don't actually know yet and while that's fine, we need to let people know that.--[[User:Nintenfreak|Nintenfreak]] ([[User talk:Nintenfreak|talk]]) 00:52, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

::I think the Chinese-language wiki has the intended National Dex numbers on the pages of each individual Pokemon, but if there's no way to conform the numbers 100% they should be reverted to "#???" but ordered using their numbers in the Paldea Pokedex. [[User:Superjustinbros.|Superjustinbros.]] ([[User talk:Superjustinbros.|talk]]) 01:17, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
:::Did the hard work:

::::What seem to be the intended Dex numbers for the Paldea Pokemon were added in the first patch which came out on launch day, maybe that could be used as the basis for the national Dex numbers since they're all put in a more proper order? [[User:Superjustinbros.|Superjustinbros.]] ([[User talk:Superjustinbros.|talk]]) 03:35, 20 November 2022 (UTC)

Number 980 and 987 are missing from the list. Is that an error or have they just not been revealed yet? --[[User:DudeGuy|DudeGuy]] ([[User talk:DudeGuy|talk]]) 02:57, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
::They are dummied out Pokémon not in the base game but should be added with updates, which is why I suspect this isn't the actual National Dex number. It's more likely this is the internal index number. You can see sketches of what these Pokémon will look like while playing the game.--[[User:Nintenfreak|Nintenfreak]] ([[User talk:Nintenfreak|talk]]) 03:37, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
:Just confirming this, some TCG products were revealed. Pawmi is #0921 and Smoliv is #0928, which means it's not EXACTLY in the order they appear in the game since it looks like Clodsire probably got moved to be with the other evolutions of old Pokémon.--[[User:Nintenfreak|Nintenfreak]] ([[User talk:Nintenfreak|talk]]) 09:25, 7 December 2022 (UTC)

Also gholdengo is #1000 and gimmighoul #999 but I can’t update it [[User:RogueAngel7272|RogueAngel7272]] ([[User talk:RogueAngel7272|talk]]) 20:05, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

==Notes==

Meadow Vivillon is listed as the Polar Pattern, Paldean Tauros are missing, and I get why Arceus has "Arceus" under its name, but it's really redundant. If the Deerling and Cramorant forms are listed separately, then Ash-Greninja and Eternal Floette should also be listed. '''[[User:Oneofthosedf|Oneofthosedf]] [[User talk:Oneofthosedf|(talk)]] [[Special:Contributions/Oneofthosedf|(contribs)]]''' 00:14, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
:The page explicitly lists form names like HOME does.
:I made the decision to only include Pokemon that aren't part of an obsolete mechanic like Megas. To me that includes Ash-Greninja and Floette. There hasn't been much discussion about if that's best. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 03:19, 6 December 2022 (UTC)

==Paldean Tauros==

Just wanted to note that Paldean Tauros' type is wrong, and that all breeds should be listed as they have different types. [[User:Petrichor|Petrichor]] ([[User talk:Petrichor|talk]]) 18:04, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

== hey ==

the official artworks for all Gen 9 Pokemon are arriving!
[[User:WASPED 302168|WASPED 302168]] ([[User talk:WASPED 302168|talk]]) 14:52, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

I have a question, how much time is often need after the games official release and the full release of the official arts for every Pokémon???
2, 3 or 4 months???
[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 17:35, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
:If I remember correctly, last time it was 20 days, so it would be expected in 5. I think [https://zukan.pokemon.co.jp/?sort_type=2 this was the site] that published them first.--'''[[User:Team Rocket Grunt|Rocket]] [[User talk:Team Rocket Grunt|Grunt]]''' 17:48, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

== National Pokédex Number for Paldean Pokémon ==

Apparently the National Pokédex Number for Paldean Pokémon has been revealed. https://twitter.com/JoeMerrick/status/1600515136070057986
Should we go ahead and change the order, or do we wait for now? [[User:Harryghost|Harryghost]] ([[User talk:Harryghost|talk]]) 16:08, 7 December 2022 (UTC)
:I would wait for something official.--'''[[User:Team Rocket Grunt|Rocket]] [[User talk:Team Rocket Grunt|Grunt]]''' 22:37, 7 December 2022 (UTC)
::That would mean waiting for Pokémon Home to update. I think it would be more prudent to go ahead and work with the datamined numbers and if we need to change them later, change them later. Simple as.--[[User:Nintenfreak|Nintenfreak]] ([[User talk:Nintenfreak|talk]]) 03:20, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
::: We're waiting for the TCG cards to be properly revealed before adding the numbers of the relevant Pokemon(so, not all of them).--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 05:18, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

:::: It's inaccurate to state on the page that the numbers haven't been datamined yet. —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 00:19, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
:::::...It doesn't say 'datamined'. It says 'determined'. Which they haven't been. [[User:ArcToraphim|Kai]] * the [[User talk:ArcToraphim|Arc]] [[Special:Contributions/ArcToraphim|Toraph]] 14:52, 11 December 2022 (UTC)

::::At the very least, the current situation is causing problems for templates that expect Pokémon sprites to be labeled by their National Dex number rather than by name (such as the "trainerlist" set used on Trainer class pages), so something ought to be done about that sooner rather than (months) later. (And anyways, if we're being pedantic, datamined info is already in use in plenty of places around the site, so I don't see why this data is any less kosher?) [[User:Zyxyz|Zyxyz]] ([[User talk:Zyxyz|talk]]) 12:06, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

== Why can't I edit the page? ==

I've confirmed my email address, but the option to edit isn't appearing for me. Is there a reason for that that I'm not aware of? Also, I am able to edit other pages, this is the only I've seen so far that I can't. --[[User:Greenninja22|Greenninja22]] ([[User talk:Greenninja22|talk]]) 22:25, 14 December 2022 (UTC)
:I'm guessing you've just joined Bulbapedia, you're not autoconfirmed so can't edit straight away, it is also possible the page is protected so that either only admin can edit the page or new members can't--[[User:BigDocFan|BigDocFan]], Junior Admin Bulbapedia ([[User talk:BigDocFan|talk]]) 22:31, 14 December 2022 (UTC)
::This specific page is protected and only admins can edit it.--'''[[User:Team Rocket Grunt|Rocket]] [[User talk:Team Rocket Grunt|Grunt]]''' 22:33, 14 December 2022 (UTC)

== Gen IX ==

Add paldean to the list of regions at the start of the article [[User:Gliscor8|Gliscor8]] ([[User talk:Gliscor8|talk]]) 02:42, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

Paldea [[User:Gliscor8|Gliscor8]] ([[User talk:Gliscor8|talk]]) 02:43, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

== Official Gen IX Order (?) ==

https://youtu.be/pa08Y-fhfTI

Pokémon recently uploaded this commemorating each Mon, and at the end they seem to reveal the official order of the Paldean Dex. The numbers of some do correspond with the teased TCG Dex numbers of certain Paldean Mons. It might be safe to fill in the rest of the Dex now.

[[User:Setralystic|Setralystic]] ([[User talk:Setralystic|talk]]) 14:33, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

I agree with the orden present in the vido has well, even in the video and in the official site for Pokémon Scarlet and Violet states that Gholdengo is the 1000th pokemon, the order shown must be the official one. --[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 15:57, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

== Official Artwork ==

Add official Artwork for all paldean pokemon [[User:Gliscor8|Gliscor8]] ([[User talk:Gliscor8|talk]]) 00:32, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

*Not all of the artwork has been revealed yet. Yes, there's some leaked artwork but again, not all of that has been revealed.
[[User:Setralystic|Setralystic]] ([[User talk:Setralystic|talk]]) 01:52, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

== Zero-Padding for Numbers ==

Since there are now over 1000 Pokémon, both the official Japanese Pokédex page and the TCG are adding an extra zero to the beginning of existing Dex numbers below 906 (Bulbasaur is already listed as "#0001" on the official website, etc. - going up from there). I feel like implementing this change site-wide would take quite some time, as the three-digit numbers are used on at least a thousand pages across the site, but this might be the best place to start with that. Thoughts? [[User:Mudkip0258|Mudkip0258]] ([[User talk:Mudkip0258|talk]]) 15:18, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
:That's just inevitable.--'''[[User:Team Rocket Grunt|Rocket]] [[User talk:Team Rocket Grunt|Grunt]]''' 15:28, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
::We have a bot for stuff like that, we just need to get images and templates sorted before running it. [[User:Glik|glik]][[User talk:Glik|glak]] 15:31, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

== Forms of Gen IX Pokémon missing from the list ==

I think that we should add in to the list the forms of Maushold Family of Three, Dudunsparce Three-Segment form and for Squawkabilly the blue, white and yellow Plumage forms, since there are other Pokémon with multiple and even grater number of forms represented in this list even if they do not posees 2D artwork, even in the Pokémon official site this forms are represented with 3D in game models from Scarlet and Violet. --[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 20:19, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

Talk:List of Pokémon by National Pokédex number/Archive 2

2023-01-12T15:57:28Z

Neos: /* Official Gen IX Order (?) */

== Archives ==
* [[Talk:List of Pokémon by National Pokédex number/Archive 1|Archive 1]]
__TOC__
== Gen VI ==
<s>Could Aurorus and Tyrantrum be added to the page, or will they be added after this mystery Pokémon is revealed tomorrow?</s> Scratch that. Aurorus, Tyrantrum, and Doublade need to be added. --[[User talk:Relicant|The]] [[Special:Contributions/Relicant|Truth]] aka Relicant 16:19, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

== 719, 720, 721 ==

I remember reading somewhere that someone discovered Pokemon past Zygarde. Should we add them? [[User:Liberty Bell|Liberty Bell]] ([[User talk:Liberty Bell|talk]]) 14:25, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
:We know about them, but we can't really confirm them since this time we neither can crack into the game to see all the data, nor they've been officialy revealed... at least for now. [[User:Uploader|Uploader]] ([[User talk:Uploader|talk]]) 14:39, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

== Cottonee's type change ==

Can anyone add Fairy type to Cottonee please, that's because it's evolution is also Fairy type. Thank you! [[User:Cinday123|Cinday123]] ([[User talk:Cinday123|talk]]) 06:56, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

== False typing ==

Cottonee and Whimsicott are not fairy type. Why do people keep stating that when you cannot even find them in x or y? --[[User:Admantus|Admantus]] ([[User talk:Admantus|talk]]) 19:07, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
:You can't catch them yourself, but they are used by other Trainers in battle facilities, etc. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 20:19, 1 December 2013 (UTC)

::And according to Serebii, Cottonee line is now Fairy type, however, you can't catch them in Kalos and the only way to get them is to transfer Pokémon from Black, White, Black 2 or White 2 to X or Y, this is because it is not available to catch in Kalos however you have a chance to see them in battle facilities whereas Trainers used Whimsicott. [[User:Cinday123|Cinday123]] ([[User talk:Cinday123|talk]]) 08:52, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

Well, Serebii might be wrong, because they haven't even updated the sprites for the other unobtainable pokemon that appear post-game. I think that the types should be switched back to pure grass until pokemon bank comes out. --[[User:Admantus|Admantus]] ([[User talk:Admantus|talk]]) 20:56, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

:That has nothing to do with it. I mean, the information on Bulbapedia is always confirmed information. And any information that wasn't confirmed gets removed. So, the fact that Cottonee/Whimsicott being Grass/Fairy hasn't been removed or altered back to it's original information/typing means it's been confirmed. And like [[User:Cinday123|Cinday123]] and others have said, just because you can't catch it in the Kalos region games doesn't mean you can't still obtain it. And that means, the information for Cottonee & Whimsicott are programmed in the games. So, I say let it be. [[User:DarienLeonhart|DarienLeonhart]] ([[User talk:DarienLeonhart|talk]]) 21:52, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

== Order ==

Is it just me or are the pokemon listed for gen VI out of order? Not like broken, but I see like 114 right after 93 and etc. ★☆[[User:Togetic45|'''Toge''']][[User talk:Togetic45|'''tic''']][[Special:Contributions/Togetic45|'''45''']]☆★ 18:58, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
:It's not out of order. Those are the Pokemon's Kalos Dex numbers. The list is ordered by the National Dex numbers. --[[User:Funktastic~!|'''It's''' '''Funktastic~!''']][[User talk:Funktastic~!|''話してください'']] 19:05, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

== Secret Gen 6 Pokemon ==

What about those secret Pokemon from Gen 6? The ones after Zygarde? Shouldn't they be on here now? [[User:MegaNerd18|MegaNerd18]] ([[User talk:MegaNerd18|talk]]) 11:36, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

:I'm so sorry, the Pokémon Company haven't revealed these mythical Pokémon so let's just leave it for now until it's revealed so we don't know yet. [[User:Cinday123|Cinday123]] ''([[User talk:Cinday123|Talk]])'' 12:24, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

Well I think the hacker who discovered the secret Pokemon is reliable because the Pokemon he found where: Hoopla, Volcanion, Daince, Fancy Vivillon, and the Mega Eon twins. Four out of six have revealed. If we do put in Hoopla and Volcaion when should put a little star (*) like on the list of Pokemon in the a area in the ranger game if you must release them after you catch them. --[[User:AbsolX|AbsolX]] ([[User talk:AbsolX|talk]]) 17:46, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

== Generation VI Sprites ==

Why there are no sprites for the new Pokémon introduced in X and Y? [[User:Dalton358|Dalton358]] ([[User talk:Dalton358|talk]]) 20:25, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
:Because we don't have them and we don't allow taking from other sites without permission. [[User:Glik|Glik]] ([[User talk:Glik|talk]]) 20:33, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
::I figured it would take longer to get them, because it's on a different system. I wonder how the other websites got their images. [[User:Dalton358|Dalton358]] ([[User talk:Dalton358|talk]]) 21:41, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
:::They have 3DS capture cards. Few Bulbapedia users do, and the only ones I've seen with them have been focusing on other things, like Trainer images. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 21:44, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

== Multiple Pokédeces in Generation VI ==
In the Generation VI, there are 3 Pokédeces: Kalos Central, Kalos Coastal and Kalos Mountain. For example:
# Chespin is Kalos Central #001
# Inkay is Kalos Coastal #010
# Goomy is Kalos Mountain #019
The list doesn't reflect it.

-[[User:Iosue|Iosue]] ([[User talk:Iosue|talk]]) 08:27, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
:That's because this is the National Pokédex list. You want [[List of Pokémon by Kalos Pokédex number]]. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 08:32, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
::Of course I understand that. I am not stupid. I can read. What I am suggesting is to add a very small token in front of each Kalos number to indicate if it is Central, Coastal or Mountain, as these are a part of the Generation VI dex. If there is no indication of the sub-region, the column of the table of Generation VI will have limited meaning here. I'd suggest you either delete the whole column, or add the small indication of which sub-region the number belongs to. -[[User:Iosue|Iosue]] ([[User talk:Iosue|talk]]) 04:39, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
:::This is still an issue. Scatterbug and Sligoo are still labeled with the same number in the Kalos Dex without distinction. Also, that column is labelled VIDex, which will be misleading with the release of ORAS. --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 06:55, 17 July 2014 (UTC)
::::I concur with the main issue. Don't write completely undifferentiated numbers as if all you have to do is scroll through one Pokedex to find any given Pokemon; that's not at all the case. Do something like this:
{{rdexh|X|Y|dexname={{color2|000|List of Pokémon by Kalos Pokédex number|VIdex}}}}
{{rdex|001Ce|650|Chespin|1|Grass}}
{{rdex|002Ce|651|Quilladin|1|Grass}}
|}
::::I would also strongly suggest linking the regional 'dex abbreviations in the headers so people can click on them and immediately jump to those 'dexes. (If this were done, this would make "VIdex" less "misleading".) I linked "VIdex" above, and I'll demonstrate the same for the other generations below...
{{rdexh|red|green|dexname={{color2|000|List of Pokémon by Kanto Pokédex number|Kdex}}}}
|}
{{rdexh|gold|silver|dexname={{color2|000|List of Pokémon by Johto Pokédex number|Jdex}}}}
|}
{{rdexh|ruby|sapphire|dexname={{color2|000|List of Pokémon by Hoenn Pokédex number|Hdex}}}}
|}
{{rdexh|diamond|pearl|dexname={{color2|000|List of Pokémon by Sinnoh Pokédex number|Sdex}}}}
|}
{{rdexh|black|white|dexname={{color2|000|List of Pokémon by Unova Pokédex number|Udex}}}}
|}
::::For that matter, I'd also suggest linking "Ndex" similarly in [[Template:Rdexh|the header template]] so it links easily back here on the regional 'dex pages. ...And "Type" could also be linked, just because it's the sort of thing that ''should'' be clickable. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 08:47, 17 July 2014 (UTC)
:::::This is still an issue. Scatterbug and Sligoo are still labeled with the same number in the Kalos Dex without distinction. Also, Diancie needs its Kalos Dex number added (#151 in Central). --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 09:43, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
::::::As Abcboy said, this remains an issue. I have taken the liberty of creating [[User:Tiddlywinks/List of Pokémon by National Pokédex number|a user page]] that fixes the main issue in this discussion. The page also incorporates my idea for 'dex links in the headers, as well as renames the Kalos section's table header from "VIdex", a name that is not proper considering the existence of ORAS now.
::::::I hope someone on staff will take a cursory look at my user page and then copy the code onto this page (give or take the headers, perhaps), so that this issue may finally be solved. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 21:58, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
:::::::Bump... [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 10:29, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

== Color ==

I noticed that the color coordination is not in accord with the Kalos National Pokédex. Shouldn't each region get the appropriate color attributed to them? [[User:Mr. Guye|Mr. Guye]] ([[User talk:Mr. Guye|talk]]) 20:57, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

:Interesting observation. I had never noticed the color coding in the Kalos National Pokédex before, but it's there, and is to my knowledge the first time an official source has used color coding to denote regions.
:Bulbapedia currently uses specific colors for regions, but this particular page uses the colors of the first games taking place in those regions. Perhaps the colors for the tables on this page should be replaced with the region colors. Meanwhile, replacing the region colors themselves with the ones in X and Y is a discussion that should take place but might be too big for this page. I would recommend taking that up with a staff member. --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] [[User talk:AndyPKMN|(talk)]] 18:36, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

== The icon for diancie. ==
Now that Diancie has been released, you guys need to update this page to contain the sprite for diancie so it is no longer a grey question mark. [[User:Randomviewer896|Random Viewer]]

== Flabébé line ==

We've done it for Shaymin, Burmy and Rotom (as well as others) and the sprites are in the Archives, so can an admin (since I can't edit the page) add on the different mini sprites of them, or explain to me why they aren't used on it? Thanks.--[[User:Ditto51|Ditto51/Tom]] ([[User_Talk:Ditto51|My Talk Page]]) 20:47, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

== Save space ==

Welcome. I got the idea, in which a list of Pokemon replace the tiles. It would have saved a lot of space and reduced the site to a minimum. Imagine this:
{|
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #001
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:001Bulbasaur.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Bulbasaur}}}}}
|-
| align=center style="{{roundybl|5px}} background:#{{Grass color}}" width=50% | [[Grass (type)|Grass]]
| align=center style="{{roundybr|5px}}; background:#{{Poison color}}" width=50% | [[Poison (type)|Poison]]
|}
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #002
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:002Ivysaur.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Ivysaur}}}}}
|-
| align=center style="{{roundybl|5px}} background:#{{Grass color}}" width=50% | [[Grass (type)|Grass]]
| align=center style="{{roundybr|5px}}; background:#{{Poison color}}" width=50% | [[Poison (type)|Poison]]
|}
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #003
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:003Venusaur.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Venusaur}}}}}
|-
| align=center style="{{roundybl|5px}} background:#{{Grass color}}" width=50% | [[Grass (type)|Grass]]
| align=center style="{{roundybr|5px}}; background:#{{Poison color}}" width=50% | [[Poison (type)|Poison]]
|}
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #004
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:004Charmander.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Charmander}}}}}
|-
| colspan=2 align=center style="{{roundybottom|5px}} background:#{{Fire color}}" | [[Fire (type)|Fire]]
|}
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #005
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:005Charmeleon.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Charmeleon}}}}}
|-
| colspan=2 align=center style="{{roundybottom|5px}} background:#{{Fire color}}" | [[Fire (type)|Fire]]
|}
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #006
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:006Charizard.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Charizard}}}}}
|-
| align=center style="{{roundybl|5px}} background:#{{Fire color}}" width=50% | [[Fire (type)|Fire]]
| align=center style="{{roundybr|5px}}; background:#{{Flying color}}" width=50% | [[Flying (type)|Flying]]
|}
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #007
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:007Squirtle.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Squirtle}}}}}
|-
| colspan=2 align=center style="{{roundybottom|5px}} background:#{{Water color}}" | [[Water (type)|Water]]
|}
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #008
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:008Wartortle.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Wartortle}}}}}
|-
| colspan=2 align=center style="{{roundybottom|5px}} background:#{{Water color}}" | [[Water (type)|Water]]
|}
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #009
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:009Blastoise.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Blastoise}}}}}
|-
| colspan=2 align=center style="{{roundybottom|5px}} background:#{{Water color}}" | [[Water (type)|Water]]
|}
|}

As you can see images of Pokémon will be bigger and will take less than half the length now. --[[User:Dominikololo|Dominikololo]] ([[User talk:Dominikololo|talk]]) 09:47, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

:I don't necessarily agree with this idea. It looks better and shows off a Pokémon's appearance in full instead of just resorting to the icon, yes, but it's a lot more complex to work with incase there's an error. If you want to make it, you can do it as a personal user page under something like [[User:Dominikololo/Visual National Pokédex]] just to give us a full example. [[User:Superjustinbros.|Superjustinbros.]] ([[User talk:Superjustinbros.|talk]]) 03:30, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

== Generation III ==

Considering the fact the Johto Pokédex part of the Gen II Pokémon section was updated to the newer version from HG/SS, it's probably best we update Hoenn's under the Gen III Pokémon section to the one from ΩR/αS. [[User:Nintendocan|Nintendocan]] ([[User talk:Nintendocan|talk]]) 00:17, 25 December 2014 (UTC)

== Hoopa Unbound and Dex numbers ==

Hoopa's Unbound form needs to be added. Diancie, Hoopa and Volcanion's Dex numbers also. [[User:Asmod96|Asmod96]] ([[User talk:Asmod96|talk]]) 16:09, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

{{rdexh|X|Y|VI}}
{{rdex|150|718|Zygarde|2|Dragon|Ground}}
{{rdex|151|719|Diancie|2|Rock|Fairy}}
{{rdex|152|720|Hoopa|2|Psychic|Ghost}}
{{rdex|152|720U|Hoopa|2|Psychic|Dark}}
{{rdex|153|721|Volcanion|2|Fire|Water}}
|}

== Sun and Moon Legendary Mascots ==

Can someone who has access to editing this page add [http://www.serebii.net/news/2016/20-April-2016.shtml Solgaleo and Lunaala] to the Gen VII list? They have been revealed along with the Alola starters, but remained nameless in the video. --[[User:PKMNAdventurer|PKMNAdventurer]] ([[User talk:PKMNAdventurer|talk]]) 23:16, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
:As you say, they are nameless. Until there is confirmation, we will not be assuming their names. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 23:26, 10 May 2016 (UTC)

== Charjabug and Vikavolt ==

Shouldn't Charjabug and Vikavolt be immediately after Grubbin, seeing as they're its evolutions? [[User:Pokemega32|Pokemega32]] ([[User talk:Pokemega32|talk]]) 13:55, 1 July 2016 (UTC)
:I noticed that too; I think whoever renamed/added them meant to move both Rockruff and Komala down, but somehow missed Rockruff... [[User:AmoongussForLife|AmoongussForLife]] ([[User talk:AmoongussForLife|talk]]) 14:14, 1 July 2016 (UTC)
::Just went to look at it and it seems SnorlaxMonster got it covered. Thanks for pointing it out. Too bad we don't know anything about their official numbering yet, but I guess they want to keep some things (how many 'Mons, for instance" a secret, so meh. [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 17:32, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

== Hippowdon ==

If Unfezant and Frillish line are included twice for both genders, shouldn't Hippowdon be added as well? Their appearance is quite different as well.
Same goes for several other cases, if Hoopa and Meloetta have their forms added, why not Keldeo or Kami trio? Who decides what should appear and what shouldn't, and by what rule??? {{unsigned|KingisNitro}}
:The Hippos, it may be because official art (see [[Hippopotas (Pokémon)]], the big image at the top) AFAIK has never depicted the female forms, while for {{p|Frillish}} and {{p|Unfezant}} it has.
:The difference between Hoopa and Meoetta vs Keldeo and the Kami trio may be that the former change types when they change form. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 16:35, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
::Another contributing reason is that the game does not have gender-specific menu sprites for the Hippopotas family. Together with the lack of a type difference between genders, adding a seperate row for the other gender will not accomplish anything content-wise. [[User:Chenzw|Chenzw]] ([[User talk:Chenzw|talk]]) 16:49, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
:::Basculin is also listed twice, by the way. Vivillon, that also changes menu sprite depending on forms, is only included once (understandably because of how many form differences it has).
:::I mean I was mostly asking, so thanks for "justifying" it. Also, regarding whether it adds anything content-wise - except for the type changing forms, nothing really adds any content (Frillish, Hippos, Unfezant, Basculin, Vivillon), which is why I was puzzled. Didn't seem like there was any actual reason to include multiples. But I guess Sugimori arts are a good enough reason (I just couldn't figure it out). {{unsigned|KingisNitro}}

== Alolan ==

Someone needs to add the recently revealed Pokemon, which I assume would include Alolan Forms (as they all change type.) [[User:AmoongussForLife|AmoongussForLife]] ([[User talk:AmoongussForLife|talk]]) 17:32, 1 August 2016 (UTC)

:No, I think this page is better suited for the Pokémon with their natural Pokémon types to help prevent the page from getting too messy or confusing. This is why separate sub-pages are better suited to handling this such as the [[Mega Evolution]] page. -[[User:Tyler53841|Tyler53841]] ([[User talk:Tyler53841|talk]]) 00:37, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
::FWIW, the Alola Forms' types are no less natural than the forms we've always known. That said, we haven't yet decided whether we want the Alola Forms here or not. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 00:41, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
:::I would think that the Alolan Forms should be added, as the type changes, it appears the Pokémon don't switch between the two (an Ice/Fairy Ninetales would have Ice Vulpix), and multiple entries are added for Darmanitan, which is a similar case. I suppose the second point is mostly speculation at this point, though, but I don't think it would hurt the page overall. [[User:AmoongussForLife|AmoongussForLife]] ([[User talk:AmoongussForLife|talk]]) 01:06, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

== Wimpod's types ==

[[Wimpod]]'s types are Bug/Water, not Water/Bug. Someone should fix it. --[[User:RafaelGN|RafaelGN]] ([[User talk:RafaelGN|talk]]) 03:09, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
:Fixed. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 03:23, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

== Wishiwashi, Pyukumuku, and Morelull ==

This page still lists the japanese names even though the English names are revealed and confirmed and the pages for them use the English names. [[User:AztecCroc|AztecCroc]] ([[User talk:AztecCroc|talk]]) 14:16, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

== Rugarugan ==

Someone needs to add Rugarugan after Rockruff; it's been over a day. [[User:AmoongussForLife|AmoongussForLife]] ([[User talk:AmoongussForLife|talk]]) 17:19, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
:I will try see if I can. [[User:Awesomevenustoise101|Awesomevenustoise101]] ([[User talk:Awesomevenustoise101|talk]]) 17:22, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
::never mind I didn't know that the page is protected. [[User:Awesomevenustoise101|Awesomevenustoise101]] ([[User talk:Awesomevenustoise101|talk]]) 17:23, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
:::It hasn't been added because there is no page for it and it hasn't been officially revealed, it was leaked. The admins know what they are doing and it will be added when it gets added. --[[User:HoennMaster|Hoenn]][[User talk:HoennMaster|Master]] 17:25, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

== why is this page protected? ==

why is this page protected? I want to add Rugarugan after Rockruff but I can't. [[User:Awesomevenustoise101|Awesomevenustoise101]] ([[User talk:Awesomevenustoise101|talk]]) 17:25, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
:Most of the time it doesn't need to be changed, and when it does, we don't want people jumping the gun on rumors and stuff. Things like this we (as staff) update it when it's appropriate to do so. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 17:48, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

== Rowlet National dex number and menu sprites ==

On the [http://www.pokemon-sunmoon.com/en-us/pokemon-bank/ Pokémon Bank page] on the official site, menu sprites for several Gen VII Pokémon have been shown, and Rowlet have been confirmed as #722. Here's direct links for the relevant images: [http://www.pokemon-sunmoon.com/media/uploads/sept_20_assets/screenshots/top/sept20_p12_01_en.png Top screen], [http://www.pokemon-sunmoon.com/media/uploads/sept_20_assets/screenshots/bottom/sept20_p12_01_en.png Bottom screen] - [[User:RHeegaard|RHeegaard]] ([[User talk:RHeegaard|talk]]) 00:21, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

:I'm assuming that the reason only Rowlet, Litten, Popplio, and Pikipek were uploaded is because they are the only ones with numbers (I am curious where you got official evidence of Litten, Popplio, and Pikipek's numbers though?), but would it not be possible to upload the others as "DrampaMS.png" and such so that they can be listed? It would make the table easier to read, I think. It's also what we do with artwork (whereas Pikachu's artwork is [[a:File:025Pikachu.png|File:025Pikachu.png]], Drampa's is [[a:File:Drampa.png|File:Drampa.png]]), so it's not like it goes against Bulbapedia's other efforts. [[User:Nutter Butter|Nutter Butter]] ([[User talk:Nutter Butter|talk]]) 03:05, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
::In large part, most places where menu sprites are used simply ''cannot'' accomodate filenames like DrampaMS (this page being an excellent example of such a place). The few places it might be usable aren't really worth it. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 03:20, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

== Additions ==

Can we add: [[Steenee (Pokémon)]], [[Tsareena (Pokémon)]], [[Hakamo-o (Pokémon)]], [[Ribombee (Pokémon)]]? [[User:Kidburla|Kidburla]] ([[User talk:Kidburla|talk]]) 14:01, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
:They've already been added. --[[User:Carmenstar97|Carmen★]] ''[[User talk:Carmenstar97|(Talk |]] [[Special:Contributions/Carmenstar97|contribs)]]'' 14:02, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
::Thanks. Seems they were added while I was typing the post. [[User:Kidburla|Kidburla]] ([[User talk:Kidburla|talk]]) 16:44, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
:::For future reference, if you just wait, someone will almost assuredly get to it soon enough. (I mean, if someone asked this every time there was a new reveal, this page would probably quickly end up bloated.) If it's 24 hours later, ''then'' it's late. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 16:50, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

== Oricorio ==

How come {{p|Castform}} has all of its forms on the list but {{p|Oricorio}} doesn't? --[[User:PKMNAdventurer|PKMNAdventurer]] ([[User talk:PKMNAdventurer|talk]]) 00:06, 6 January 2017 (UTC)
:Personally, it could be due to the criteria, but I cannot tell. So, here is a hopefully complete list of what Pokémon with multiple menu sprites appear and which do not.
:From the group that does appear: Unfezant (Gender difference), Frillish (Gender), Jellicent (Gender), Castform (Ability), Deoxys (Form), Burmy (Form), Wormadam (Form), Shellos (Form), Gastrodon (Form), Rotom (Form), Giratina (Item), Shaymin (Item), Basculin (Form), Darmanitan (Ability), Meloetta (Move), Hoopa (Item), All Alolan Pokémon (Form)
:From the group that does ''not'' appear: Pyroar (Gender difference), Meowstic (Gender), Ash-Greninja (Ability), Zygarde (Forme), Kyurem (Item), Cosplay Pikachu (Form), Pikachu (Unknown), Spiky-eared Pichu (Form), Unown (Form), Cherrim (Ability), Arceus (Item), Flabébé (Form), Floette (Form), Florges (Form), Deerling (Form), Sawsbuck (Form), Tornadus (Item), Thundurus (Item), Landorus (Item), Keldeo (Move), Vivillon (Form), Furfrou (Form), Aegislash (Ability), Oricorio (Item), Silvally (Item), Minior (Ability), All Mega/Primal Evolution Pokémon (Item/Move),
:...So, basically, I would guess that this might have been potentially overlooked. Who is to say? Granted, I do understand that Unown, Vivillon, Arceus, and Silvally likely are excluded for a good reason. --[[User:Super goku|Super goku]] ([[User talk:Super goku|talk]]) 07:19, 6 January 2017 (UTC)
::IMO, there definitely should be Oricorio with all its form, I thought that only forms with different type combination are added, but if there are also some gender differences... I even think there should be Mega Evolutions, if we will be adding forms. [[User:Asmod96|Asmod96]] ([[User talk:Asmod96|talk]]) 08:13, 16 February 2017 (UTC)
:::Most of these are probably missing because, as was mentioned in my "Hippowdon" question, they don't have official Sugimori art. Frillish has official art for both genders, while Hippowdon doesn't, hence it doesn't get two pictures. P weird reasonong, but I guess it works; Oricorio DOES have official art (in fact, most mentioned Pokemon do) and the forms change typing (good enough reason if you ask me), so I think someone should add them. Also, why can't we merge the forms into a single line (similarly to [[Pokémon with unique type combinations]] page)? {{unsigned|KingisNitro}}
::::The most important thing to remember, I think, is that this is a list of Pokémon species. It's not a list of minisprites. It's not even a list of Pokémon's types—those are included supplementarily. And it's ''certainly'' not a list of Ken Sugimori art.
::::On that note, I think the inclusion and exclusion of form differences should follow a less horrendously arbitrary standard. Either A) all forms with unique minisprites or types are included, or B) only one form per species is included, determined by a consistent criterion. If we go with A, I absolutely agree with KingisNitro that they should be merged into a single row, since it makes no sense to list the same species multiple times in a list of species. If we go B, I propose that the criterion be "whichever form is leftmost in Pokémon Bank's National Pokédex", since this is consistently a form that can be considered the most basic or "default".
::::So the question is, A or B? Should we put it up to a vote? [[User:Randomwaffle23|Randomwaffle23]] ([[User talk:Randomwaffle23|talk]]) 02:27, 4 September 2017 (UTC)
:::::I am going to mention that this technically is over six month old, but I will say that if anyone wants to put this up for a vote or needs to make a new section to discuss this can go ahead. Though, I do want to note that we now have issues with Pokémon like Togekiss who have two menu sprites just for which side they are facing. --[[User:Super goku|Super goku]] ([[User talk:Super goku|talk]]) 07:05, 14 September 2017 (UTC)
:This is still not "fixed". If castform's forms count then I really do think many of the others should be included as well. Maybe not all Unown or Vivillon forms since they're purely cosmetic. I do think forms that change type or stats should be included (like Necrozma or Zygarde forms...) -[[User:Jor1ss|Jor1ss]] ([[User talk:Jor1ss|talk]]) 17:04, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
::So, personally, I'm sorry that this keeps getting forgotten. On the other hand, even now, I can't muster enough of myself to "care" about it to check everything and do it up right... If someone wants to create a user page, we can look at it and see what's different and decide how much should be added. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 22:44, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
:::I'd love to help with adding them but maybe I can't because my account is only 1 day old? I'm also not sure what having a userpage would do for adding to the list? Isn't a userpage just a page for each user? I'm very new here so I don't really know what to do sorry. -[[User:Jor1ss|Jor1ss]] ([[User talk:Jor1ss|talk]]) 06:48, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

==Alola==

At the very top of the page, it still doesn't list Alola with the rest of the regions. [[User:AmoongussForLife|AmoongussForLife]] ([[User talk:AmoongussForLife|talk]]) 10:53, 17 January 2017 (UTC)

== Alolan Pokedex number of new Pokemon ==

The ADex numbers of Poipole, Naganadel, Stakataka, Blacephalon, and Zeraora should be changed to 261, 262, 392, 393, and 403 respectively. [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 18:13, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
:I'm not sure if this kind of a "noisy post" or "bump" is allowed, but I need to somehow get someone to pay attention to this. [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 02:00, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

== Gliscor sprite missing ==

the Gliscor Sprite is missing, can't edit to put it in [[User:Yamitora1|Yamitora1]] ([[User talk:Yamitora1|talk]]) 17:57, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

That's just an error on your end. [[User:AztecCroc|AztecCroc]] ([[User talk:AztecCroc|talk]]) 22:04, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

== Spin-off Pokedexes? ==

Sort of an off-topic but idk where else to ask; do we have Pokedexes for side/spin-off games (Rumble, Mystery Dungeon, Pinball, Ranger, Trozei/Shuffle...)? I think it would be neat to list the Pokemon with places to find them/other important information. If so - where, if not - why? If I made them on my page, could they be added to Bulba? (Where else can I ask this question?) ~[[User:KingisNitro|'''KingisNitro''']] ([[User talk:KingisNitro|talk]]) 01:04, 12 November 2018 (UTC)
:As seen in the List of Pokémon template below the articles, yes, we do have Pokédex listing of other/spin-off games. Unless there's another listing you want to suggest.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 03:32, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

== Meltan and Melmetal should not be under "generation VII" category ==

Officially, meltan and melmetal are under the region "unknown" and as such they should both be under that new category. furthermore, their pokedex numbers are 808 and 809 officially too.
{{unsigned|Supermassimo}}
:Well, I see what you mean but this list is sorted by generation. And those Pokémon were indeed introduced in the generation it says they were. --[[User:Raltseye|Raltseye]] [[User talk:Raltseye|prata med mej]] 14:08, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

::By that logic though, shouldn't Marill and Togepi be listed as generation 1 pokemon, Munchlax as a generation 3 pokemon and Magearna as a generation 6 pokemon? In fact, every single generation other than the first had a pokemon revealed in some medium before the release of the main games and this is especially true of mythicals. (Victini is in a similar situation to Meltan being listed just after the gen 4 mythicals and before the gen 5 starters even though it is considered gen 5 itself)

::In fact, the only difference is that all these other pokemon were typically revealed in movies or the anime whereas Meltan/Melmetal are playable in Pokemon Go/Let's Go. That said, these are still just spinoff games (which actually don't even have any other gen 7 pokemon in them other than alolan forms) and neither Meltan nor Melmetal are available in any mainline gen 7 games. Finally, Pokemon Go goes as far as to classify Meltan's region as "Unknown" whereas it could have easily been listed as Alola if it was intended to be a gen 7 pokemon. (And Magearna has nothing to do with either Kalos nor Alola but is still classified as "Gen 7" in the Sun/Moon pokedex.

::Sorry, for the long rant but my point is that strictly speaking the situation for Meltan/Melmetal is "Unknown" and ideally this should be reflected on the page to avoid speculating. However, if people insist on assigning a region/generation to it, I think it's far more likely to be "Galar"/"Gen 8" and not "Alola". Just my 2 cents. [[User:MCX|MCX]] ([[User talk:MCX|talk]]) 21:52, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
:::I would agree with your logic if not for your assumption that LGPE are not mainline games. They are core Pokémon games, which has been reiterated multiple times by Masuda and the others at GF. Since they’re catchable and playable in a mainline Gen VII game, they’re Gen VII Pokémon. That’s what separates them from cases like Bonsly, which I think would have been a much better example than Marill or Munchlax. --[[User:Celadonkey|celadonk]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 12:47, 18 March 2019 (UTC)
::::I'm still not convinced that it's relevant nor that it's the case that LGPE are core titles. I'm not sure which interview you are referring to when saying that Masuda has stated that LGPE are core games but afaik Sword and Shield were first announced as the unnamed 2019 mainline Switch games in e3 2017. Then LGPE were announced at a later time and people were giving GF crap until they clarified that LGPE weren't the same as the previously announced 2019 titles. Correct me if I remember any of this incorrectly but if not, this would indicate that LGPE are something less than core games. If LGPE are core games that's the equivalent of GF announcing Sun/Moon after XY and then saying "oh btw, before SM we are gonna release gen 3 remakes, they aren't the same games as SM, we just thought we should announce gen 7 first." Yeah, LGPE are much closer gameplay-wise to the core games than, say, mystery dungeon or pokemon pinball but they are also not quite there.

::::Moreover, even if Masuda has said in an interview "LGPE are core titles", I'm still not sure if that is relevant in classifying Meltan's gen. LGPE don't have Crobat or Electivire or any gen 2-7 pokemon but they have Megas and Alolan forms and Meltan. This is just a weird situation where they used Meltan as a promo thing - not at all an indication that it's gen 7. They've even dropped mainline mechanics like breeding and abilities... Meltan being there doesn't conclusively prove anything. I doubt we will get any official statement like "Btw Meltan belongs in X gen" but we are still probably going to get a conclusive answer when they colour code Meltan along with either the gen 7 or gen 8 pokemon in some future title's pokedex. I'm just saying that until then we should keep its status as "Unknown" because that's what it currently is. [[User:MCX|MCX]] ([[User talk:MCX|talk]]) 23:49, 26 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::You can check the interview section in the LGPE guidebook if you don't believe that he explicitly has said that they're core titles. "These games aren't spinoffs. These are core Pokémon titles" is the exact quote. Since Meltan and Melmetal appeared in Gen 7 core titles, they're Gen 7 Pokemon. Simple enough. If for whatever reason they change that, then we'll change that too. But we don't really have any reason to believe otherwise. --[[User:Celadonkey|celadonk]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 23:56, 26 March 2019 (UTC)

== Request to add Trivia section ==

I would like to see a Trivia section added to the bottom of the list, with the following single item:

* With the sole exception of {{p|Type: Null}}, all English Pokémon names in this list are also used for Italian and Spanish languages. The names for '''Type: Null''' in Italian and Spanish are, respectively, ''Tipo Zero'' and ''Código Cero''.

This is to avoid the need for any separate '''List of Italian Pokémon names''' and '''List of Spanish Pokémon names''' pages that would differ from this English page by ONLY ONE ROW. ''(Currently, those two page titles are redirects to the English list.)'' --[[User:SilSinn9801|''SilSinn'']] ([[TID]]s: '''768426[[Pokémon Sun|S]]''', '''123446[[Pokémon Ultra Moon|UM]]''') ([[User talk:SilSinn9801|talk]]) 10:01, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

==Gen 8 Starters==
Grookey, Scorbunny, and Sobble would be National Pokedex 810, 813, and 816. Can these numbers please be added? [[User:Kimichael4317|Kimichael4317]] ([[User talk:Kimichael4317|talk]]) 05:38, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
:We do not actually ''know'' that so no, they won't be added. --[[User:Raltseye|Raltseye]] [[User talk:Raltseye|prata med mej]] 05:43, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
::We have no guarantee as to whether there would be another Victini-like scenario where a Mythical Pokémon would be enumerated right before the starters (as happened in Unova, twice). Hence why we cannot safely assume 810, 813, 816 – it could end up being 811, 814, 817. ‑‑[[User:SilSinn9801|''SilSinn'']] ([[TID]]s: '''768426[[Pokémon Sun|S]]''', '''123446[[Pokémon Ultra Moon|UM]]''') [[User talk:SilSinn9801|💬]] 07:52, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

== Zekrom has an extra space next to his name. ==

That is all. {{unsigned|MrKarato}}
:Fixed. And don't forget to sign your comments.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 06:01, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

== Handling forms + smaller suggestions ==

As far as I can tell there's no pattern to how forms are handled on this page. Some Pokémon with alternate forms or major gender differences have their forms present, others do not. Frankly, since it’s a list of Pokémon species according to their number, no Pokémon with form differences should be even included in a different line. Either the alternate forms should be removed entirely, only including the “base” form, or the lines should be combined like on List of Pokémon with unique type combinations. Personally, I'd prefer to have no forms displayed-- it would make the page a whole lot cleaner and easier to use-- but I can see the purpose of displaying forms, so I think that something like this would be best:

{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{firered color}}; background: #{{firered color}}"
! style="{{roundytl|5px}}; background: #{{leafgreen color light}}" | Kdex
! style="background: #{{leafgreen color light}}" | Ndex
! style="background: #{{leafgreen color light}}" | MS
! style="background: #{{leafgreen color light}}" | Pokémon
! style="{{roundytr|5px}}; background: #{{leafgreen color light}}" colspan="2" | Type</noinclude>
|- style="background:#FFF"
| rowspan="2" style="font-family:monospace" | <nowiki>#</nowiki>026
| rowspan="2" style="font-family:monospace" | <nowiki>#</nowiki>026
| {{MSP|026|Raichu}}
| rowspan="2" | {{p|Raichu}}
| colspan="2" style="text-align:center; background:#{{electric color}}" | [[Electric (type)|Electric]]
|- style="background:#FFF"
| {{MSP|026A|Raichu}}
| style="text-align:center; background:#{{electric color}}" | [[Electric (type)|Electric]]
| style="text-align:center; background:#{{psychic color}}" | [[Psychic (type)|Psychic]]
|}

Again, I think that not displaying forms would be the best way to go, but either way, the current system of handling forms is unsatisfactory, both in the inconsistency between which forms are shown and which are not, and in the actual formatting of the forms.

Additionally, I have two smaller suggestions. First, I believe that it would be better to display the National Pokédex number before the regional Pokédex number, rather than vice versa, as this is a page on the National Pokédex, and that should take priority. Second, at the end of each section, there is no roundy template on the bottom, as you can see above, which makes the bottom of each section square and not as aesthetically pleasing. --[[User:Celadonkey|celadonk]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 20:05, 29 March 2019 (UTC)

The problem with formes/forms is that there's many different kinds of forms. There's only visual forms (most male female differences/unown forms etc) and there's forms where the stats change (meowstic male/female for instance). There's forms where the typing changes (Wormadom/Necrozma's various forms). There's temporary forms that are only visible in battle (megas/greninja/cherubi). There's temporary forms that are changed by using an item or by depositing the pokemon or by whatever arbitrary reason (giratina/tornadus etc.). There's also regional forms, where a pokemon cannot change to the other form but is basically a different pokemon altogether (alolan and soon galarian forms). Maybe the list should just include all the base forms? And then there could be a seperate table listing all the additional forms for a pokemon?[[User:Jor1ss|Jor1ss]] ([[User talk:Jor1ss|talk]]) 12:40, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

== Information to readers ==

I want to modify the title section, but I have no permission. Could someone add the sentence “All English, Italian and Spanish Pokémon names are identical, but, depending on the language, they're pronounced differently.”? --[[User:TheICTLiker4|'''TheICT''']][[User talk:TheICTLiker4|'''Liker4''']] 18:19, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
:That's not relevant to the article at all.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 04:13, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
::Well, most european languages use the same names as the English version anyway, in fact only German and French are the the ones that consistently differ. Unless you count the languages that use a different alphabet, only Serbian, Lithuanian and some more perhaps are the only ones that does not use the standard English names instead transcribing it to their own orthography. So I see no really point in mentioned them all here. A simple line like <code>most other languages using the Latin alphabet also uses these names</code> would suffice in my opinion.
::I'm thinking maybe if it's okay with the staff around to make redirect for <code>List of Swedish/Icelandic/Spanish/Romanian/etc. Pokémon names</code> to this page.
::Otherwise, if you're interested, at least one Spanish and Italian name do actually differ from the English name, {{p|Type: Null}}. I've made list articles about which names I have found being used in other languages [[User:Raltseye/Template:Pokelist|here]].
::--[[User:Raltseye|Raltseye]] [[User talk:Raltseye|prata med mej]] 13:43, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

== Yamper and Impidimp ==

They're not on here for some reason? Can someone who can edit this page fix that?[[User:AztecCroc|AztecCroc]] ([[User talk:AztecCroc|talk]]) 13:33, 15 June 2019 (UTC)

== Aug 7 Trailer - New Pokémon ==

In the newest trailer, two new Pokémon (Obstagoon and Morpeko), as well as the Galarian forms of Weezing, Zigzagoon, and Linoone were revealed. I don't see them listed on this page yet, those Impidimp, which has still not been officially revealed is. [[User:CMP|CMP]] ([[User talk:CMP|talk]]) 18:46, 9 August 2019 (UTC)

== Missing ==

Currently, Galarian Meowth is missing from this list. [[User:MarioMiner|MarioMiner]] ([[User talk:MarioMiner|talk]]) 03:00, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

== Dex Shortcuts ==

Can we get the dex shortcuts removed or redirected correctly? They're just redirecting to the top of this page. [[User:Joe kik as|Joe kik as]] ([[User talk:Joe kik as|talk]]) 17:33, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
:That's the point of the shortcuts. They're just redirects of this article, and they're there for reference.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 04:32, 15 January 2020 (UTC)
::But why is it at the top of the page if it's just redirecting to the top. If anything it should redirect to different pages corresponding to those links. [[User:Joe kik as|Joe kik as]] ([[User talk:Joe kik as|talk]]) 16:32, 15 January 2020 (UTC)
:::I already said why, they're there for reference. To let users know which shortcut to type out in the search bar if they wanted to find this article easier (since typing out the entire title would be a hassle). The other dex listings also have shortcuts that lead to their respective articles.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 16:55, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

== Ndex as the first column ==

I think the Ndex number should probably be the first column. This is the main subject of this list.

The Ndex is currently the 2nd column, which seems like a secondary position. (even though in the case of the first 151 Pokémon, the numbers are the same) --[[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 10:14, 31 January 2020 (UTC)
:{{template|rdex}} is convenient. I don't think it's that big an issue to make another template just for this. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 03:23, 1 February 2020 (UTC)
::I'm with Daniel here. This is a list of Pokemon by National Pokedex number. Surely that should be the primary focus. --[[User:Celadonkey|celadonk]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 18:19, 1 February 2020 (UTC)
:::I could do the job of creating a new template and editing this page if this idea is accepted. It could be simply a new template based on {{template|rdex}} with reverse parameters. A possible name could be {{template|nrdex}} (since {{template|ndex}} is taken) .--[[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 00:50, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
::::The header is the only thing here that would need to be changed if this were to be done. --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 01:05, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
:::::Aside from that, we may also want to reverse the order of the numbers for each Pokémon in [[List of Pokémon by National Pokédex number]], to make the wikitext match the resulting page. I can do this if needed. --[[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 02:38, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

== Pokémon with different forms not present in the list ==

I don't understand the criteria for Pokémon with different forms, by the type of them:

Gender differences : We do not include the forms of Indeedee, Pyroar and Meowstic, But we allow Unfezant, Frillish and Jellycent?

Different permanent forms but with the same typing: Lycanrock and Toxtricity. But it allows other permanent forms, e.g. Shellos, Gastrodont and Basculin.

Different Forms and different types: Kyurem and Necruzma. But allows Castform, Rotom, Melloeta, Hoopa, Shaymin and Oricorio.

Different Battle forms but same types: Wishiwashi, Cherrim, Landorus, Thundurus, Tornadus, Kyurem, Keldeo, Greninja, Zygarde and Minior are not included. But Deoxis and Gyratina are on the list.

No applicable to the above criteria: Unown, Arceus, Deerling, Sawsbuck, Vivillon, The Flabébé Family and Furfrou. But we do have Burmy and Wormadam and Urshifu. (I understand that the Pokémon in this las criteria have a lot of forms, and that the reason of not their including is for space and order in the page)

Can some one please explain me the criteria for allowing the different forms selection?

--Neos 10:19, April 16 2020 (UTC)
:Yeah, it does seem rather arbitrary to me.

:I think I've mentioned this above but this page is a list of Pokemon by number first and foremost. Including forms at all, imo, muddles the numbering up, at least for me. --[[User:Celadonkey|celadonk]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 13:48, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

::I think we should take out the unnecessary forms --[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 00:36, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

== You forgot NDex# of Galarian Slowking ==

Force Fire: You added NDex numbers for Galarian forms of Slowbro & the Legendary Birds (even if no menu sprites exist for them yet), but you forgot Galarian Slowking:
<pre>{{rdex||???|Slowking|1|???}}</pre>
Given this page is protected, I cannot change the page myself; could you please provisionally change that line to:
<pre>{{rdex||199G|Slowking|1|???}}</pre>
‐⁠‑''[[User:SilSinn9801|SilSinn]]'' ([[TID]]s: '''768426[[Pokémon Sun|S]]''', '''123446[[Pokémon Ultra Moon|UM]]''') [[User talk:SilSinn9801|💬]] 17:01, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
:Fixed --[[User:Spriteit|Spriteit]] ([[User talk:Spriteit|talk]]) 01:21, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
::This page needs to be edited as Galarian Slowking's type was confirmed to be Poison/Psychic like Galarian Slowbro was. [[User:Kangaflora|Kangaflora]] ([[User talk:Kangaflora|talk]]) 19:01, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

== 891-893 ==

Pokemon Home's Pokedex , after this morning's patch, seems to confirm that Kubfu, Urshifu, and Zarude are numbers 891, 892, and 893 respectively. That is all. Sorry if this text is really big for some reason.{{unsigned|Zigzagoon97}}

== (Understandable) Style Inconsistencies ==

To be consistent with the style of the page before the Crown Tundra was released, only Calyrex's base form should be present, as neither Kyurem (which, admittedly, does not change type) nor Necrozma (which does change type, and thus should be treated exactly the same way as Calyrex) have their fusion forms present on this list. Alternatively, including Necrozma's forms, and possibly Kyurem's forms, would solve this issue. [[User:MarioMiner|MarioMiner]] ([[User talk:MarioMiner|talk]]) 22:58, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
:Another style inconsistency - in the Generation IV section of the page, Heatran, Regigigas, Cresselia, Phione, Darkrai, Shaymin, and Arceus, the Gen IV Pokémon without Sinnoh Pokédex numbers, have their portions of the "Sdex" column blank. However, Meltan, Melmetal, Kubfu, Urshifu, Zarude, Regieleki, Regidrago, Glastrier, Spectrier, and Calyrex, all Pokémon that do not appear in their respective generations' regional Pokédexes, have "#---" in their regional Pokédex (Adex for Meltan and Melmetal, Gdex for the rest) columns. [[User:MarioMiner|MarioMiner]] ([[User talk:MarioMiner|talk]]) 00:06, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

== Zygarde's Forms ==
Zygard seems to be the only Pokémon currently missing alternate forms.
[[User:RomajiMiltonAmulo|RomajiMiltonAmulo]] ([[User talk:RomajiMiltonAmulo|talk]]) 01:45, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

== Legends: Arceus Pokémon ==

Are the Pokémon and Regional Forms that were shown in the new [[Pokémon Legends: Arceus]] trailer going to be added now or when the game releases? -[[User:Ratboy Jr.|Ratboy Jr.]] ([[User talk:Ratboy Jr.|talk]]) 22:40, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

== Mega Aerodactyl needs to be added. ==

A couple Megas were forgotten to be added. Could you please scout through and add them? {{unsigned|Necrozma800}}
:They are left out for a reason, Mega Evolutions are not completely new species, they are a transformed state of the same base species.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 07:06, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

== Legends arceus pokemon ==

We need numbers for Basculegion, wyrdeer, Kleavor, we need these pokemon added Overqwil, Enamorus, Ursaluna, and Sneasler. Dex numbers (national) are : 899 is Wyrdeer 900 is Kleavor 901 is Ursaluna 902 is Basculegion 903 is Sneasler 904 is Overqwil, 905 is Enamorus, so yeah [[User:ItsRobloxHere|ItsRobloxHere]] ([[User talk:ItsRobloxHere|talk]]) 00:24, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

== H.Goodra's typing ==

it should be Steel/Dragon, not Dragon/Steel.
[[User:Anzasquiddles|Anzasquiddles]] ([[User talk:Anzasquiddles|talk]]) 05:56, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

== Hisuian Braviary's MSP, and Origin Formes for Dialga and Palkia ==

Well, the second point is more of a question. I see there's plenty of contention on the matter of form-inclusion, but Giratina's Origin Forme is on the list so I thought I'd mention it.
[[User:Pichugetic|Pichugetic]] ([[User talk:Pichugetic|talk]]) 01:06, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

: Oh, just noticed: also Hisuian Avalugg. [[User:Pichugetic|Pichugetic]] ([[User talk:Pichugetic|talk]]) 07:31, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

== Unfezant, Frillish and Jellycent: only one entry per Pokémon? ==

For the majority of Pokémon, only the male appearence is shown. However, it does not apply for Shellos, Gastrodon, Unfezant, Frillish and Jellycent. Shellos and Gastrodon are region-based in several (all?) games, so displaying both appearances is justified, but it does not apply for Unfezant, Frillish and Jellycent. So is there something special about those 3 Pokémon that grants 2 entries for each of them in the list? [[User:Y2110|Y2110]] ([[User talk:Y2110|talk]]) 11:42, 21 May 2022 (UTC)

EDIT: Oh, it has already been discussed on this page. My bad

== 3D Sprites ==
[[File:001MS8.png|thumb|right|68px|SwSh Bulbasaur (68px)]]
[[File:902MS.png|thumb|right|68px|PLA Basculegion (68px)]]
[[File:HOME001.png|thumb|right|60px|HOME Bulbasaur (60px)]]
[[File:HOME902.png|thumb|right|60px|HOME Basculegion (60px)]]

Why have the 2D sprites been changed to the 3D Pokemon Home ones? The 3D sprites mesh horribly with the tables and lists, take up too much space, and have too much color and detail making it hard to focus on anything but the sprites themselves. I can understand wanting to upgrade but sometimes less is more especially for someone who has sensitive eyes or ADHD. There could at least be an option to select whether you what to view 2D or 3D sprites.[[User:Strawhatroger|Strawhatroger]] ([[User talk:Strawhatroger|talk]]) 16:57, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
:It's a necessity. We already had too much inconsistency between sprites from SwSh, LGPE, PLA and older ones, soon we'll get another ones for SV which would make it even worse. Fortunately HOME sprite are very consistent and exist for alternate forms. They don't take more space because previously we already had big 68px squares.--'''[[User:Team Rocket Grunt|Rocket]] [[User talk:Team Rocket Grunt|Grunt]]''' 17:34, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

The HOME sprites pop out way too much and are too bright hurting my eyes making it very difficult to do thing like look at lists without straining my eyes.[[User:Strawhatroger|Strawhatroger]] ([[User talk:Strawhatroger|talk]]) 17:55, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

::I've added some Bulbasaur and Basculegion image examples at the top of this discussion now.
::As TRG was saying, the list with 2D sprites was using inconsistent styles (including 2D sprites from SwSh like that Bulbasaur, and 3D face portraits from PLA like that Basculegion). We may have 2D sprites for most of the currently available Pokémon, but not all of them.
::Since you mentioned the size, let me point out that those 2D sprites typically were 68px images with white space around the Pokémon (a lot of white space in my opinion). I've changed them to those 3D images with 60px size, so they are occupying less space than before.
::For instance, it seems there are at least 1,000 lines on these tables, so the page should be approximately 8,000 pixels shorter than before with the current 3D sprites.
::Although to be fair, the image size can be changed in the template so it could become smaller or larger if needed. If anyone thinks that the 2D sprites with a lot of whitespace around looked good, it's also possible to add whitespace around the 3D images (without needing to edit the images). --[[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 18:43, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

:::Did someone reverted the 3D sprites? now they are back to the 2D ones.
:::I really support the idea of using the HOME menu sprites for this page and for what I have seen in the latest SV trailers the classic Menu minisprites are now gone. So by using as the source of sprites HOME we will be sure that's there will be a unify menu art style. --[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 21:57, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

::::Yes. The change was reverted back to the 2D sprites, pending further discussion. Sorry for the trouble. --[[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 23:01, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

Finally! Someone who actually listens to other people's opinions and uses common sense. I've looked at any trailer and screenshot of SV I could find and if anything it looks like 2D sprites will be returning, and if it really comes down to it perhaps we can just use the official artwork since it's easier on the eyes.[[User:Strawhatroger|Strawhatroger]] ([[User talk:Strawhatroger|talk]]) 05:02, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

==Urshifu and Female Pokémon==

Since the two forms of Urshifu shared a menusprite, the Home art for Rapid Strike style Urshifu will have to be added manually globally. I don't think there is another Pokémon with this issue. Female Pokémon such as Unfezant, Jellicent, etc. will also have to be added manually. And since they are included, the female forms of Meowstic, Indeedee, Basculegion and Pyroar should have their own entries as well. Or none of them should. Just make it consistent. Necrozma is also missing its forms, even though they change type. '''[[User:Oneofthosedf|Oneofthosedf]] [[User talk:Oneofthosedf|(talk)]] [[Special:Contributions/Oneofthosedf|(contribs)]]''' 18:00, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
:I'm wondering if we should change female forms manually or the HOME images could be renamed. I'm fine with both, but I'd like to know what to do.--'''[[User:Team Rocket Grunt|Rocket]] [[User talk:Team Rocket Grunt|Grunt]]''' 19:02, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

::Yeah, I'm adding the Urshifu sprite to move pages, but I'll wait with Indeedee and Meowstic, as a simple redirect would solve those issues as opposed to Urshifu. '''[[User:Oneofthosedf|Oneofthosedf]] [[User talk:Oneofthosedf|(talk)]] [[Special:Contributions/Oneofthosedf|(contribs)]]''' 19:46, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

== Forms of Pokémon that should be added into this list ==

I know that I spoke about this more that two years ago, but there are a lot of inconsistencies in the list regarding which Pokémon forms get to be in this list and which don't, I get that Gigantamax and Mega's aren't allowed in this list, but there are Pokémon that have very different forms ranging from Gender, alternative and even different learnset's, and I think that they should be added into the list as well because there are pokemon that share the exact situation has the ones that I'm going to propose that are already on the list.

Candidates for inclusion on the list based in multiple criteria:

By gender extreme differences:

Indeedee Female

Pyroar Female

Meowstic Female

Basculegion Female

(Pokémon subject to this criteria that are already present on the list with Male and Female forms are: Unfezant, Frillish and Jellycent)

Pokemon with special forms that can't be changed:

Lycanrock Midnight form

Lycanrock Dusk form

Toxtricity Low Key form

Sandy Cloak Wormadam

Trash Cloak Wormadam

(Pokémon subject to this criteria that have different forms already present on the list are: Shellos, Gastrodont, Basculin and Urshifu)

Diferent Fusions with different Types:

White Kyurem

Black Kyurem

Dusk Mane Necrozma

Dawn Wings Necrozma

Ultra Necrozma

Pokemon with the capability of change between forms upon different scenarios:

Wishiwashi School form

Cherrim Sunshine form

Landorus Therian form

Thundurus Therian form

Tornadus Therian form

Enamorus Therian form

Keldeo Resolute form

Zygarde 10% form

Zygarde 100% form

(Pokémon subject to this criteria that have different forms already present on the list are: Castform, Rotom, Melloeta, Hoopa, Shaymin, Oricorio, Deoxis, Dialga, Palkia and Gyratina)

Please consider adding the proposed forms listed above, or consider delisting the Pokémon forms that are already present in parentheses at the end of each category, since if the Pokémons requested to be added are not added personally I don't see a justified reason to keep the extra forms that are present at the moment.

--[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 18:23, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

Also this should be more easy now that we have the Pokémon HOME models for this list --[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 18:28, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

:Being as long as it is, I think adding on to the list uneccessarily unless its a non-battle form change that changes the user's type. That being said, there are some forms missing that can be added, and I agree that some of the listings, like the gender differences, are superfluous. - [[User:Chosen|Chosen]] ([[User talk:Chosen|Talk]]) 01:11, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

{{indent}}These and many forms have (mostly) been added. You can see [[User:Tiddlywinks/List of Pokémon by National Pokédex number|here]] a list of forms that were not included (as of pre-SV). Generally, forms for abandoned mechanics (like Megas) are excluded.

These details could change with discussion. I know that all forms are pretty much in HOME, which may argue for adding Megas and such. (If we do do that, I feel like we should throw in Spiky-eared Pichu and other non-HOME forms too.) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 06:10, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

:If I may make suggestions, I think that form names could be split into new lines with <nowiki> </nowiki>tag like it is done on many pages already. How about adding generation number to each Pokémon so new people would know they can't have Alolan Pokemon in games like FRLG despite existing in LGPE? What about slight cellpadding so these files won't look so squeezed? Also, there's a small mistake with Cramorant's type and tables aren't curved at the bottom.--'''[[User:Team Rocket Grunt|Rocket]] [[User talk:Team Rocket Grunt|Grunt]]''' 08:10, 8 November 2022 (UTC)
::Personally, I'm not all about line breaks. IDK about anyone else, but at times I'll just copy a column/table straight from the page, and line breaks mess with that. (And comparing, say, the type pages, I'm not wowed by the difference in presentation. I could even argue that this format is better.)
::I did actually consider adding a column for game introduced, but I didn't get any feedback about that idea and didn't quite feel like mocking it up, so that part is completely untested.
::If you want to suggest what you think looks good for padding, I can see. But IMO it's "fine" for now. /shrug
::Roundy is about the last thing I'm worried about honestly. If I work on the list again, I may see about it. (It's definitely not worth adding some condition to the templates.) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 22:18, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

==Eternal Floette==

Not included on this page (should be) and all it had was the menusprite. It will need a redirect. Probably [[File:AZ's Floette.png|90px]] will do. '''[[User:Oneofthosedf|Oneofthosedf]] [[User talk:Oneofthosedf|(talk)]] [[Special:Contributions/Oneofthosedf|(contribs)]]''' 19:46, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

== Pokedex Arts ==

I really like that we change the classic 2D menusprites for the 2D Sugimori art for each Pokémon, since not all of them have menusprites and it most certain that in the future the old menusprites will not be used in games, we need to have a consistent art style.--[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 15:35, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

:Couldn't agree more, thank you guys for finally making this happen. Looks awesome. '''[[User:Oneofthosedf|Oneofthosedf]] [[User talk:Oneofthosedf|(talk)]] [[Special:Contributions/Oneofthosedf|(contribs)]]''' 22:42, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

I see that most forms have been cleaned up, but Basculin has only 2 of its 33 forms in the list.--[[User:Jor1ss|Jor1ss]] ([[User talk:Jor1ss|talk]]) 14:45, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
I obviously meant 3 and not 33 but it won't let me change it without signing it again.--[[User:Jor1ss|Jor1ss]] ([[User talk:Jor1ss|talk]]) 14:47, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
== Isle of Armor, Crown Tundra, Hisui, and Paldea dex numbers ==
* Hello, I'd like to request addition of Pokédex numbers for the Isle of Armor, Crown Tundra, and Hisui Pokémon. Just use the sup|Isle of Armor and sup|Crown Tundra for the IoA/CT Pokémon, add an LADex column for Hisui Pokémon.
Also, we have a few Paldea Pokédex numbers, they are: Sprigatito #001, Fuecoco #004, Quaxly #007, Lechonk #010, Pawmi #022, Fidough #076. Thanks, [[User:PinkYoshiGaming|PinkYoshiGaming]] ([[User talk:PinkYoshiGaming|talk]]) 17:26, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

== Cramorant's type ==

Cramorant's types are maldisplayed on gen 8 table. The article is locked so I hope this could be fixed soon. [[User:Saphir|Saphir]] ([[User talk:Saphir|talk]]) 12:27, 8 November 2022 (UTC)
:Thanks for pointing it out. (Also TRG.) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 22:21, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

== Gen 9 Dex numbers are largely incorrect ==

The numbers here are their index number in the data, not their National Dex numbers which we don't actually know yet and while that's fine, we need to let people know that.--[[User:Nintenfreak|Nintenfreak]] ([[User talk:Nintenfreak|talk]]) 00:52, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

::I think the Chinese-language wiki has the intended National Dex numbers on the pages of each individual Pokemon, but if there's no way to conform the numbers 100% they should be reverted to "#???" but ordered using their numbers in the Paldea Pokedex. [[User:Superjustinbros.|Superjustinbros.]] ([[User talk:Superjustinbros.|talk]]) 01:17, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
:::Did the hard work:

::::What seem to be the intended Dex numbers for the Paldea Pokemon were added in the first patch which came out on launch day, maybe that could be used as the basis for the national Dex numbers since they're all put in a more proper order? [[User:Superjustinbros.|Superjustinbros.]] ([[User talk:Superjustinbros.|talk]]) 03:35, 20 November 2022 (UTC)

Number 980 and 987 are missing from the list. Is that an error or have they just not been revealed yet? --[[User:DudeGuy|DudeGuy]] ([[User talk:DudeGuy|talk]]) 02:57, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
::They are dummied out Pokémon not in the base game but should be added with updates, which is why I suspect this isn't the actual National Dex number. It's more likely this is the internal index number. You can see sketches of what these Pokémon will look like while playing the game.--[[User:Nintenfreak|Nintenfreak]] ([[User talk:Nintenfreak|talk]]) 03:37, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
:Just confirming this, some TCG products were revealed. Pawmi is #0921 and Smoliv is #0928, which means it's not EXACTLY in the order they appear in the game since it looks like Clodsire probably got moved to be with the other evolutions of old Pokémon.--[[User:Nintenfreak|Nintenfreak]] ([[User talk:Nintenfreak|talk]]) 09:25, 7 December 2022 (UTC)

Also gholdengo is #1000 and gimmighoul #999 but I can’t update it [[User:RogueAngel7272|RogueAngel7272]] ([[User talk:RogueAngel7272|talk]]) 20:05, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

==Notes==

Meadow Vivillon is listed as the Polar Pattern, Paldean Tauros are missing, and I get why Arceus has "Arceus" under its name, but it's really redundant. If the Deerling and Cramorant forms are listed separately, then Ash-Greninja and Eternal Floette should also be listed. '''[[User:Oneofthosedf|Oneofthosedf]] [[User talk:Oneofthosedf|(talk)]] [[Special:Contributions/Oneofthosedf|(contribs)]]''' 00:14, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
:The page explicitly lists form names like HOME does.
:I made the decision to only include Pokemon that aren't part of an obsolete mechanic like Megas. To me that includes Ash-Greninja and Floette. There hasn't been much discussion about if that's best. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 03:19, 6 December 2022 (UTC)

==Paldean Tauros==

Just wanted to note that Paldean Tauros' type is wrong, and that all breeds should be listed as they have different types. [[User:Petrichor|Petrichor]] ([[User talk:Petrichor|talk]]) 18:04, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

== hey ==

the official artworks for all Gen 9 Pokemon are arriving!
[[User:WASPED 302168|WASPED 302168]] ([[User talk:WASPED 302168|talk]]) 14:52, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

I have a question, how much time is often need after the games official release and the full release of the official arts for every Pokémon???
2, 3 or 4 months???
[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 17:35, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
:If I remember correctly, last time it was 20 days, so it would be expected in 5. I think [https://zukan.pokemon.co.jp/?sort_type=2 this was the site] that published them first.--'''[[User:Team Rocket Grunt|Rocket]] [[User talk:Team Rocket Grunt|Grunt]]''' 17:48, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

== National Pokédex Number for Paldean Pokémon ==

Apparently the National Pokédex Number for Paldean Pokémon has been revealed. https://twitter.com/JoeMerrick/status/1600515136070057986
Should we go ahead and change the order, or do we wait for now? [[User:Harryghost|Harryghost]] ([[User talk:Harryghost|talk]]) 16:08, 7 December 2022 (UTC)
:I would wait for something official.--'''[[User:Team Rocket Grunt|Rocket]] [[User talk:Team Rocket Grunt|Grunt]]''' 22:37, 7 December 2022 (UTC)
::That would mean waiting for Pokémon Home to update. I think it would be more prudent to go ahead and work with the datamined numbers and if we need to change them later, change them later. Simple as.--[[User:Nintenfreak|Nintenfreak]] ([[User talk:Nintenfreak|talk]]) 03:20, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
::: We're waiting for the TCG cards to be properly revealed before adding the numbers of the relevant Pokemon(so, not all of them).--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 05:18, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

:::: It's inaccurate to state on the page that the numbers haven't been datamined yet. —[[User:Legoless|Legoless]] ([[User talk:Legoless|talk]]) 00:19, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
:::::...It doesn't say 'datamined'. It says 'determined'. Which they haven't been. [[User:ArcToraphim|Kai]] * the [[User talk:ArcToraphim|Arc]] [[Special:Contributions/ArcToraphim|Toraph]] 14:52, 11 December 2022 (UTC)

::::At the very least, the current situation is causing problems for templates that expect Pokémon sprites to be labeled by their National Dex number rather than by name (such as the "trainerlist" set used on Trainer class pages), so something ought to be done about that sooner rather than (months) later. (And anyways, if we're being pedantic, datamined info is already in use in plenty of places around the site, so I don't see why this data is any less kosher?) [[User:Zyxyz|Zyxyz]] ([[User talk:Zyxyz|talk]]) 12:06, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

== Why can't I edit the page? ==

I've confirmed my email address, but the option to edit isn't appearing for me. Is there a reason for that that I'm not aware of? Also, I am able to edit other pages, this is the only I've seen so far that I can't. --[[User:Greenninja22|Greenninja22]] ([[User talk:Greenninja22|talk]]) 22:25, 14 December 2022 (UTC)
:I'm guessing you've just joined Bulbapedia, you're not autoconfirmed so can't edit straight away, it is also possible the page is protected so that either only admin can edit the page or new members can't--[[User:BigDocFan|BigDocFan]], Junior Admin Bulbapedia ([[User talk:BigDocFan|talk]]) 22:31, 14 December 2022 (UTC)
::This specific page is protected and only admins can edit it.--'''[[User:Team Rocket Grunt|Rocket]] [[User talk:Team Rocket Grunt|Grunt]]''' 22:33, 14 December 2022 (UTC)

== Gen IX ==

Add paldean to the list of regions at the start of the article [[User:Gliscor8|Gliscor8]] ([[User talk:Gliscor8|talk]]) 02:42, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

Paldea [[User:Gliscor8|Gliscor8]] ([[User talk:Gliscor8|talk]]) 02:43, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

== Official Gen IX Order (?) ==

https://youtu.be/pa08Y-fhfTI

Pokémon recently uploaded this commemorating each Mon, and at the end they seem to reveal the official order of the Paldean Dex. The numbers of some do correspond with the teased TCG Dex numbers of certain Paldean Mons. It might be safe to fill in the rest of the Dex now.

[[User:Setralystic|Setralystic]] ([[User talk:Setralystic|talk]]) 14:33, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

I agree with the orden present in the vido has well, even in the video and in the official site for Pokémon Scarlet and Violet states that Gholdengo is the 1000th pokemon, the order shown must be the official one. --[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 15:57, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

Talk:Signature move/Archive 1

2022-12-04T19:15:46Z

Neos: /* Volt Tackle? */ new section

==Elemental Hyper Beams==
In Gen. III, only Charizard, Venusaur and Blastoise could learn [[Blast Burn]], [[Frenzy Plant]] and [[Hydro Cannon]], respectively. The Johto starters could learn it too, but only by being traded from XD (just like [[Lugia]] and [[Psycho Boost]]). Should the 3 HB variations be included in this list, since other "former" signature moves are also included?--[[User:Darthrai|Darthrai]] 02:12, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
:Feel free to add it at the bottom of the page, but note that all the fully-evolved starters can learn them in Generation IV. [[User:LordArceus|LordArceus]] 00:11, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
::You know, there's not really too much of a point to replying to topics well over a month old. --[[User:Martonimos|((Marton]] [[User talk:Martonimos|imos))]] 00:23, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

==Skarmory?==
Should Skarmory with Steel Wing be included here? After all, it is the only Pokemon that can learn it naturally.
:That would be a good case to make. Question is, how many others do that? '''[[User:TTEchidna|T]][[User talk:TTEchidna|T]][[wp:Echidna|Echidna]]''' 03:14, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
::Hitmonlee with {{M|Mega Kick}} [[User:Zurqoxn|Zurqoxn]] 03:56, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
::And I'm sure there are more, like Hitmonchan and {{m|Vacuum Wave}}. I, too, am used to call moves "signature" when they're exclusive to few by leveling up. --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 16:55, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
What about [[Porygon-Z]] and [[Trick Room]]? Though Trick Room is a [[TM]], only Porygon-Z learns it naturally. [[User:Tesh|Tesh]] 17:55, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

What about [[Metagross]] and [[Meteor Mash]]?
--[[User:Mooshykris|Mooshykris]] 22:02, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

[[Clefairy]] learns [[Meteor Mash]], though...hardly exclusive...
--[[User:Myrmidon|Myrmidom]]

And [[Chimchar]] with [[Facade]], this is the same scenario as [[Trick Room]]. [[User:Tesh|Tesh]] 15:18, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

== Level-up otherwise exclusive to TMs? ==

Okay, I just wanted to organize what's been said above. What we have so far is...

{| border=1 align="left" style="background: #fff; border:1px solid #000; border-collapse:collapse;"
|- style="background: #C0C0FF;"
! [[TM]] or [[HM]]
! [[Move]]
! [[Pokémon]]
! [[Level]]
! [[Generation]]
|- align="center"
| rowspan="2" | [[TM01]]
| rowspan="2" | {{m|Focus Punch}}
| rowspan="2" | {{p|Vigoroth}}
| 43
| {{gen|III}}
|- align="center"
| 43
| {{gen|IV}}
|- align="center"
| [[TM21]]
| {{m|Frustration}}
| {{p|Buneary}}
| 13
| {{gen|IV}}
|- align="center"
| [[TM27]]
| {{m|Return}}
| {{p|Lopunny}}
| 13
| {{gen|IV}}
|- align="center"
| [[TM42]]
| {{m|Facade}}
| {{p|Chimchar}}
| 31
| {{gen|IV}}
|- align="center"
| rowspan="3" | [[TM47]]
| rowspan="3" | {{m|Steel Wing}}
| rowspan="3" | {{p|Skarmory}}
| 49
| {{gen|II}}
|- align="center"
| 32
| {{gen|III}}
|- align="center"
| 38
| {{gen|IV}}
|- align="center"
| [[HM05]] ([[Generation III]])
| rowspan="2" | {{m|Flash}}
| rowspan="2" | {{p|Volbeat}}
| rowspan="2" | --
| rowspan="2" | {{gen|IV}}
|- align="center"
| [[TM70]]
|- align="center"
| [[TM72]]
| {{m|Avalanche}}
| {{p|Smoochum}}
| 31
| {{gen|IV}}
|- align="center"
| [[TM72]]
| {{m|Avalanche}}
| {{p|Jynx}}
| 33
| {{gen|IV}}
|- align="center"
| [[TM92]]
| {{m|Trick Room}}
| {{p|Porygon-Z}}
| --
| {{gen|IV}}
|- align="center"
| rowspan="4" | [[HM07]]
| rowspan="4" | {{m|Waterfall}}
| rowspan="4" | {{p|Goldeen}}
| 37
| {{gen|I}}
|- align="center"
| 38
| {{gen|II}}
|- align="center"
| 38
| {{gen|III}}
|- align="center"
| 37
| {{gen|IV}}
|- align="center"
| rowspan="4" | [[HM07]]
| rowspan="4" | {{m|Waterfall}}
| rowspan="4" | {{p|Seaking}}
| 39
| {{gen|I}}
|- align="center"
| 41
| {{gen|II}}
|- align="center"
| 41
| {{gen|III}}
|- align="center"
| 40
| {{gen|IV}}
|}
 

If anyone thinks of any others, go on and add them in here. '''[[User:TTEchidna|T]][[User talk:TTEchidna|T]][[wp:Echidna|Echidna]]''' 23:54, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

: As I said above, Hitmonlee with {{M|Mega Kick}}. [[User:Zurqoxn|Zurqoxn]] 01:52, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

::I placed it [[#Level-up_otherwise_exclusive_to_Move_Tutors.3F|here]] so that we stay in a [[Generation III]]/[[Generation IV|IV]] scope. --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 04:22, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Uh, Raquazza and Fly! Only he learns through level up!--[[User:Quick Man|Quick Man]] 12:57, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
*coughs* Salamence. That's like his family's evolution story line. And I think it should be at least mentioned about Abra, and how he only uses Teleport.

:Read [[Salamence#Learnset|this]] [[User:Kkllnn|Blastoise RULZ]] 20:03, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Meowth's Pay Day (Generation I's TM16) should probably be in this section as well... [[User:Blue Charizard|Blue Charizard]] 18:00, 2 April 2010

== Level-up otherwise exclusive to Move Tutors? ==

This might be useful if "signature move" is furtherly redefined. --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 04:21, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

{| border=1 align="left" style="background: #fff; border:1px solid #000; border-collapse:collapse;"
|- style="background: #C0C0FF;"
! [[Move]]
! [[Pokémon]]
! [[Level]]
! [[Generation]]
|- align="center"
| rowspan="4" | {{m|Mega Kick}}
| rowspan="4" | {{p|Hitmonlee}}
| 53
| {{gen|I}}
|- align="center"
| 46
| {{gen|II}}
|- align="center"
| 46
| {{gen|III}}
|- align="center"
| 49
| {{gen|IV}}
|}
 

== Level-up otherwise exclusive to breeding? ==

In the article, {{m|Octazooka}} is listed as being signature of only {{p|Octillery}}, and {{m|Present}} is listed as being signature of only {{p|Delibird}} (just to mention some), which is true only if the definition of "signature moves" includes this type of moves. --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 06:06, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

{| border=1 align="left" style="background: #fff; border:1px solid #000; border-collapse:collapse;"
|- style="background: #C0C0FF;"
! [[Move]]
! [[Pokémon]]
! [[Level]]
! [[Generation]]
|- align="center"
| rowspan="2" | {{m|Icicle Spear}}
| rowspan="2" | {{p|Shellder}}
| 8
| {{gen|III}} ([[Pokémon FireRed and LeafGreen|FR/LG]])
|- align="center"
| 13
| {{gen|IV}}
|- align="center"
| rowspan="2" | {{m|SmellingSalt}}
| rowspan="2" | {{p|Makuhita}}
| 31
| {{gen|III}}
|- align="center"
| 22
| {{gen|IV}}
|- align="center"
| rowspan="2" | {{m|SmellingSalt}}
| rowspan="2" | {{p|Hariyama}}
| 33
| {{gen|III}}
|- align="center"
| 22
| {{gen|IV}}
|- align="center"
| {{m|Vacuum Wave}}
| {{p|Hitmonchan}}
| 26
| {{gen|IV}}
|}
 

== About evolved forms ==

Should stone-induced evolved forms be listed? {{p|Pikachu}} and {{p|Raichu}} appear in the article. However, the species that actually learns {{m|Volt Tackle}} is {{p|Pichu}} (making the [[Pokémon Battle Revolution#Colosseums|Battle Revolution Pikachu]] a [[Signature move#Trivia|trivia section]] material). If Raichu can appear in the list, then {{p|Togekiss}} and {{p|Mismagius}} should, too. --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 20:36, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
:No, I think that only the Pokémon that learns the move should be listed. So Pichu should be listed, but it's evolutions shouldn't. Only if the evolution learns the move then they an be listed. So both Cubone and Marowak learn Bonemerang, therefore both should be listed. [[User:Tesh|'''TESH''']][[User Talk:Tesh|'''TALK''']] 15:57, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

==Splash?==

Would [[Splash (move)|Splash]] be eligible for inclusion here? A bunch of Pokémon can learn the move nowadays, but back in Generation I it was very much [[Magikarp (Pokémon)|Magikarp]]'s trademark. A similar case is already included on the list (Petal Dance, which was exclusive to the Oddish line in Generation I). [[User:Bikini Miltank|Bikini Miltank]] 08:48, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

:You're right, according to the current status of the article. But I think that kind of moves shouldn't appear in the list. IMO, in any case, [[Generation III]] stuff is the only past generation that should be mentioned, as it's compatible with [[Generation IV]], but I still don't like the idea.
:I take it this all started with the ExtremeSpeed Dratini from the trivia section, right? Well, that Dratini is obsolete, too. I propose we get rid of ExtremeSpeed Dratini and there won't be need for the ExtremeSpeed Arcanine and the other obsolete groups. --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 16:18, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

NO! Lol, we should split this article into each Generation, with a trivia section for Pokémon that do not learn a move naturally. Like Dratini in GenII. I think this would be better. <big>[[User:Tesh|'''TESH''']][[User Talk:Tesh|'''TALK''']] [[User:Tesh/Other|'''FUN''']]</big> 16:20, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

:Yeah... one of the things I was going to suggest was listing the likes of Splash, ExtremeSpeed and so on in a seperate table, for moves that were once exclusive to a single line, but aren't anymore. I think these moves are certainly worth mentioning somewhere in the article, as they might still be relevant to someone who's playing any of the older games. '''[[User:Bikini Miltank|Bikini Miltank]]'''[[User_Talk:Bikini Miltank|Moo, I say.]] 23:33, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
::You mean like {{p|Blaziken}}'s {{m|Blaze Kick}}? '''<sc>[[User:Optimus35|{{tt|Optimatum♏|Optimus35}}]]</sc>[[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|♊]]Hi''' 05:03, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
:::Splash/Magikarp should be there, and Blaze Kick/Blaziken should have been there ages ago! '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAGNEDETH]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|TA]][[User:MAGNEDETH/Riddles|RID]][[User:MAGNEDETH/new evolutions|NE]][[User:MAGNEDETH/do over|DO]][[User:MAGNEDETH/Pokemon teams|PT]]''' 05:05, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

== Magnemite ==

ok, sorry about that, but i think Zap Cannon should at least be there, other than the TM, only it and Porygon could learn it in Gen II. on that note, hows about Magnet Bomb, which only they and Nosepass/Probopass can learn? '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAGNEDETH]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|TA]][[User:MAGNEDETH/Riddles|RID]][[User:MAGNEDETH/new evolutions|NE]][[User:MAGNEDETH/do over|DO]][[User:MAGNEDETH/Pokemon teams|PT]]''' 04:59, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
:Skay. Magnet Bomb, however.. I think we should add that. [[User:Tina|Tina]] [[Special:Contributions/Tina|δ]][[User talk:Tina|♫]] 05:05, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
::idk, i still think Zap Cannon should be there. i didnt even know Porygon could learn it untill a few mins ago. '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAGNEDETH]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|TA]][[User:MAGNEDETH/Riddles|RID]][[User:MAGNEDETH/new evolutions|NE]][[User:MAGNEDETH/do over|DO]][[User:MAGNEDETH/Pokemon teams|PT]]''' 05:06, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
::::As of GenIV, 13 Pokémon can learn Zap Cannon.. [[User:Tina|Tina]] [[Special:Contributions/Tina|δ]][[User talk:Tina|♫]] 05:10, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
:::::As in check the {{m|Zap Cannon}} page...'''<sc>[[User:Optimus35|{{tt|Optimatum♏|Optimus35}}]]</sc>[[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|♊]]Hi''' 05:12, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
::::ok, i thought there were notes for previous Gens. '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAGNEDETH]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|TA]][[User:MAGNEDETH/Riddles|RID]][[User:MAGNEDETH/new evolutions|NE]][[User:MAGNEDETH/do over|DO]][[User:MAGNEDETH/Pokemon teams|PT]]''' 05:20, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

now wait a minute...Tina agreed that Magnet Bomb should be added as a sig move. besides, the page even says, "can only be learned by a single Pokémon '''or a very small select group of Pokémon'''." both Magnemite and Probopass are Steel with magnet-ness. '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAGNEDETH]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|TA]][[User:MAGNEDETH/Riddles|RID]][[User:MAGNEDETH/new evolutions|NE]][[User:MAGNEDETH/do over|DO]][[User:MAGNEDETH/Pokemon teams|PT]]''' 05:29, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
::So? That would mean I had to kick in the kickingfeet Pokémon and the chicken...Reasons:
#They don't seem to be related...
#Five Pokémon isn't a small group
#Tina agreed, so I'm saying the opposite...
'''<sc>[[User:Optimus35|{{tt|Optimatum♏|Optimus35}}]]</sc>[[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|♊]]Hi''' 05:31, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

::well...
::#they are related, magnet-ness alnog with both lvling up at Coronet
::#its technically only 2 Pokemon, Magnemite and Probopass, the page lists Mag's evo line and Probopass twice (for some reason)
::
::'''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAGNEDETH]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|TA]][[User:MAGNEDETH/Riddles|RID]][[User:MAGNEDETH/new evolutions|NE]][[User:MAGNEDETH/do over|DO]][[User:MAGNEDETH/Pokemon teams|PT]]''' 05:37, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
:::Ack! You win...'''<sc>[[User:Optimus35|{{tt|Optimatum♏|Optimus35}}]]</sc>[[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|♊]]Hi''' 05:39, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
::::i didnt fight because its Magnemite, i just fought for the truth! that being said, i still think Blaziken should be on there with a note about Gen 3 or somthing. '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAGNEDETH]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|TA]][[User:MAGNEDETH/Riddles|RID]][[User:MAGNEDETH/new evolutions|NE]][[User:MAGNEDETH/do over|DO]][[User:MAGNEDETH/Pokemon teams|PT]]''' 05:43, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
:::::Capitalized please...Hitmonlee and Blaziken seems select enough...'''<sc>[[User:Optimus35|{{tt|Optimatum♏|Optimus35}}]]</sc>[[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|♊]]Hi''' 05:44, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

== Splitting ==

This page needs to be split up into Generations I think. There are too many prior to Genration IV. [[User:Tesh|'''TESHIGIGAS''']] [[Image:486MS.png|RAWR!!]] 20:44, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
:No, No. That's not needed. It's fine how it is. --'''[[User:Theryguy512|Theryguy]][[User talk:Theryguy512|5]][[User:Theryguy512/Contribution Page|1]][[User:Theryguy512/Similarities|2]]''' 21:22, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
::But then we could sychronise the trivia into it as well. [[User:Tesh|'''TESHIGIGAS''']] [[Image:486MS.png|RAWR!!]] 18:11, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

== Small group? ==

Since Mathis seems to have decided to take a chainsaw to the list, I have to ask: How big is a "small group" of Pokémon? [[User:Cassius335|- Cassius335]] 12:24, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
:small group denotes 2 evo lines. so, as seen above, with {{m|Magnet Bomb}}, only two pokemon can learn it, with the exception of their own evos. -- '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAG]][[User:MAGNEDETH#Interesting Stuff|NE]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|DETH]]''' 19:31, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
:: Ok. *points at the top of the page* What about {{m|Meteor Mash}} then? [[User:Cassius335|- Cassius335]] 00:45, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
:::well, somone should add that to the page. along with the others in my opinion. though, it could be argued that Math earlier had the right idea. super exclusive only. -- '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAG]][[User:MAGNEDETH#Interesting Stuff|NE]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|DETH]]''' 00:55, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

== Staryu ==

In Generation III, [[Staryu]] was the only Pokemon who could learn [[Camouflage (move)|Camouflage]]. [[Mothim]] can now learn it in Gen IV. Nevertheless, I would assume that Staryu would count as a Pokémon with a signature move before Gen IV. -[[User:TIMMY|TIMMY]]

: Added. [[User:Zurqoxn|Zurqoxn]] 20:31, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

::Really, exactly two Pokemon knowing a move is still pretty exclusive. [[User:Cassius335|- Cassius335]] 09:07, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

:::We're still missing {{p|Mothim}} on there though...I guess I'll add it unless anyone has any objections...[[User:Ht14|ht14]] 00:35, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

== Skitty ==

Well, Skitty (and Delecatty, but Skitty Evolves into that) were the only ones to know assist until Generation IV, I think Skitty deserves a mention (Delecatty doesn't scince she only learns VIA from Skitty knowing before evelution).--[[User:Quick Man|Quick Man]] 13:26, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

== Cleanup ==

This article NEEDS some cleanup... some signature moves don't make sense and some are in a lot of pokemon, so they should be removed. I think if a pokemon prior to Gen IV now learns a GEN IV move, it shouldn't be mentioned, 'cause it's obvious that another pokemon will learn the same move (for example Relicanth that learns [[Head Smash (move)|Cranidos' signature]]. in that case Relicanth should be removed). If someone doesn't agree with me, then just undo it. '''[[User:Hfc2x|hfc]][[User talk:Hfc2x|2X]]''' 00:47, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
:It's fine. '''[[User:Pachirisulover12|PL]][[User talk:Pachirisulover12|12]]''' 00:48, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
::It's fine if it's only one or two different evolution families. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 04:04, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

== Crush Grip ==

What about the Combusken who has Crush Grip in PBR {{unsigned|Tannerbro}}
:That Combusken is unobtainable '''[[User:Hfc2x|hfc]][[User talk:Hfc2x|2X]]''' 18:15, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
::I have seen no proof that exsits. Can someone (an admin) hide that comment until there is a picture or video shown so we can back up such a far fetched claim? [[User:The Placebo Effect|The Placebo Effect]] 02:47, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
:::No, hiding comments is virtually the same as deleting them, which isn't allowed. ''[[User:Moldy orange|'''Moldy''']][[User talk:Moldy orange|'''Orange''']]'' 02:48, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
::::I'm actually now wondering if this person was mistaking Crush Grip for the breedable {{m|Crush Claw}}... '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 01:14, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

== Meteor Mash ==

Meteor Mash should definitely be included, like only 2 pokémon lines can learn it, and like skull bash, is listed here which also has 2 pokémon lines so why shouldn't Meteor Mash be? And why is some Hitmonlee's and other POkemon's moves are asterixed when Medicham later on has Hi Jump Kick and isnt asterixed?? It should only be asterixed when the sig move has gone completely over eg extremespeed which the others rayquaza etc arent listed... ... [[User:Wowy|--<large> "[[User:WoWy|WoWy]]"</large>''([[User talk:Wowy|><]])'']] 05:45, 23 July 2008 (UTC)Wowy
:I think this article is the most controvesrial thing... I think that a signature move should be a move that onle ONE Pokémon learns... I mean these are the REAL signature moves:
:*Volt Tackle (Pikachu family)
:*Pay Day (Meowth)
:*Kinesis (Kadabra and Alakazam)
:*Barrage (Exeggcute family)
:*Bone Club (Cubone and Marowak)
:*Lovely Kiss (Smoochum and Jynx)
:*Conversion, Conversion2 and Sharpen (Porygons)
:*Spider Web (Spinarak and Ariados)
:*Pain Split (Misdreavus)
:*Octazooka (Octillery)
:*Present (Delibird)
:*Sketch (Smeargle)
:*Triple Kick (Hitmontop)
:*Milk Drink (Miltank)
:*Aeroblast (Lugia)
:*Sacred Fire (Ho-Oh)
:*Arm Thrust (Makuhita and Hariyama)
:*Teeter Dance (Spinda)
:*Poison Tail (Seviper)
:*Ice Ball (Spheal family)
:*Mist Ball (Latias)
:*Luster Purge (Latios)
:*Doom Desire (Jirachi)
:*Psycho Boost (Deoxys)
:*Attack, Defend and Heal Orders (Vespiqueen)
:*Chatter (Chatot)
:*Rock Wrecker (Rhyperior)
:*Roar of Time (Dialga)
:*Spacial Rend (Palkia)
:*Magma Storm (Heatran)
:*Crush Grip (Regigigas)
:*Shadow Force (Giratina)
:*Lunar Dance (Cresselia)
:*Heart Swap (Manaphy)
:*Dark Void (Darkrai)
:*Seed Flare (Shaymin)
:*Judgement (Arceus)

:Any other move should not be in the list, because more than a family learns it. Remember that a signature is something that's from your own and no one else. That's why repeated moves should not be in the list. '''[[User:Hfc2x|hfc]][[User talk:Hfc2x|2X]]''' 18:15, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

::I agree with this. Also, {{m|Bonemerang}} is another exclusive move to the {{p|Cubone}} family. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 18:55, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

===Moves===
I'll add Splash becoz only Magikarp had Splash in Gen I with an asterix sign, while Meteor Mash also becoz there are some moves listed here that have more than one move per pokémon, usally two. And who said that only one family needs a signature move and when it has two it's not. I've never seen any official guide saying that. And Icicle Spear, Smelligsalt and Vacuum Wave I'll add becoz Octazooka is here which can also be bred. These moves are VERY free to undo if u wish. Oh and i'll add assist with an asterix as only skitty can learn in Gen III--[[User:Wowy|Wowy]] 07:17, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
:Signature moves can be bred, that's obvious, but no Pokémon can normally learn them. This article NEEDS to be redone. 'nuff said. '''[[User:Hfc2x|hfc]][[User talk:Hfc2x|2X]]''' 12:56, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

== waterfall ==
I see someone's cleaned it up but waterfall should be included but with an * coz ONLY goldeen and seaking learnt in Gen I coz it wasnt a TM/HM there could be more moves like this--[[User:Wowy|Wowy]] 23:47, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
: I also noticed mimic is a signatre move for sudowoodo, however in ONLY generation II because in Generation I it was a TM, I'm not sure about MIMIC--[[User:Wowy|Wowy]] 23:50, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
::What about {{m|featherDance}}?--[[User:Wowy|Wowy]] 06:15, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

== Fact ==

Could someone add that signature moves are recommended for the pokemon learning them. Also, you forgot about the legendaries. - ''unsigned comment from [[User:Xknight 511|Xknight 511]] ([[User talk:Xknight 511|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Xknight 511|contribs]]){{ #if: | {{{2}}} |}}''
:In some cases they aren't. Take for example Ho-Oh in Gen II and III. He has Higher Attack than Sp. Atk, but his Signature move focuses in Sp. Atk. So it depends on the trainer. '''[[User:Hfc2x|hfc]][[User talk:Hfc2x|2X]]''' 07:01, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

== Sorted by generation? ==

How ab out instead of making it so pokemon has a note saying when the move isn't signature, we make a page or section on this page for each generation? [[User:The Placebo Effect|The Placebo Effect]] 15:22, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
:Do you mean have sections like "Signature moves in Generation I" and "Signature moves in Generation II"? If so, I think that's a great idea. [[User:Baby G|Baby G]] 15:39, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
::I think that' s very good idea too. [[User:RikkiKitsune|Rikki Kitsune]] 19:28, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
:::I've been working on this for the past month, using a Word document. But it hasn't been going so well. You see, some signature moves just came off the top of my head, but I'm having trouble remembering whether or not there are any signature moves other than the ones in my document. But don't fear, I'll get it finished soon. --[[user:Baby G|Baby G]] ([[user talk:Baby G|talk to me]]) ([[Special:Contributions/Baby_G|see my edits]]) 20:58, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

== Unprotect please ==

Kenji-girl protected this article because she was losing in the edit war. I told her that I promise to stop edit warring, but she's completely ignoring me. Can someone please unprotect this article? [[User:Baby G|Baby G]] 15:38, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

== Platinum ==
Should i add Platinum signature moves, coz I added scyther with Vacuum Wave and somone took it off... Look at Serebii and it says it can learn it...--'''[[User:Wowy|WowyXD]] [[User talk:Wowy|\⁄!!!''-talk'']]''' 07:08, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
:Well, yeah Serebii knows lots of things, but he isn't very relliable at times... and you NEED to fix your signature!!! '''[[User:Hfc2x|hfc]][[User talk:Hfc2x|2X]]''' 22:48, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
::Actually, Scyther can learn Vacuum Wave via the move relearner in Pastoria, so it is indeed one of Scyther's moves.--[[User:RiverAura|*River*]] [[User_Talk:RiverAura|*Aura*]] 00:53, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

== Camouflage ==
Why Camouflage is here? It can be learned by two pokémon --[[User:CorsolaSplash|CorsolaSplash]] 18:32, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
:As long as it's learnable by a relative few Pokémon (out of 493, two is VERY few), it goes here. I don't know where we should put the threshold, however, but as long as less than 1% of all Pokémon learn a move (not counting their evolutions) it should go here. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 01:16, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
::I kinda think it should be limited to one evolution family, ESPECIALLY if two very unrelated Pokémon (like Scyther and Hitmonlee as mentioned with {{m|Vacuum Wave}} above) both know the move. If you think that's too extreme/harsh, maybe if two somewhat similar Pokémon both know the move (like if they have common design elements or something). ←{'''[[User:Berrymaster|Berrymaster]]|[[User_talk:Berrymaster|Talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Berrymaster|Contrib]]'''}→ 01:24, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
:::Moves only count as signature moves if only one Pokémon are one evolution family can learn them. Besides, Hitmonchan and Scyther aren't the only 2 Pokémon that can legitimatelly have Vacuum Wave. About 30 others can learn it from the {{game3|Platinum|Platinum|}} [[move tutor|tutor]]. --[[user:Baby G|Baby G]] ([[user talk:Baby G|talk to me]]) ([[Special:Contributions/Baby_G|see my edits]]) 21:01, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
::::Well, that brings up a similar issue... moves that can be learned other than level-up by many, but level-only for a few. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 21:06, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
:::::I used to think that level up was all that counted, but about a month ago, Kenji-girl said that other methods ({{pkmn|breeding}}, [[TM]]s, etc.) do count when it comes to signature moves. So Vacuum Wave has actually never been Hitmonchan's signature move, since several others could learn it by breeding before Platinum. --[[user:Baby G|Baby G]] ([[user talk:Baby G|talk to me]]) ([[Special:Contributions/Baby_G|see my edits]]) 21:48, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

== Transform? ==

Why signature move of {{p|Ditto}} and {{p|Mew}} is the {{m|Transform}} (which is written), a {{m|Fly}} isn't a signature move of {{p|Salamence}} and {{p|Rayquaza}}. [[User:Era64|Era64]] 11:29, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
:Well, for Ditto at least, Transform is its ''only'' move. Mew just has that "DNA of all Pokémon in it" deal that lets him transform.- ''unsigned comment from [[User:Phred|Phred]] ([[User talk:Phred|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Phred|contribs]]){{ #if: | {{{2}}} |}}''
::But it's not a signature move, since more than one Pokémon learns it by level, and Mew and Ditto aren't in an evolution family. --[[user:chocolate|Cho]][[user talk:chocolate|col]][[special:contributions/chocolate|ate]] 20:31, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
:::It's still a ''small group'' of Pokemon. So it's limited to who can learn it. Also once again I think this needs to be split into generations. [[User:Tesh|'''TESH''']][[User_talk:Tesh|'''IGIGAS''']] 20:55, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
::::But Kenji-girl said that signature moves are moves only learned by one Pokémon, or one evolution family. "Small groups" don't count unless they're in the same evolution family. Also, I've been working on generation splitting for a while now, and I'm almost done. --[[user:chocolate|Cho]][[user talk:chocolate|col]][[special:contributions/chocolate|ate]] 20:59, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
:::::It does say at the beggining of the page that they ''can only be learned by a single Pokémon or a very small select group of Pokémon''. So Mew and Transform should be on there. If it's like 3 Pokemon in different evolution families and it can be bred into others, then it isn't a signature move really. And thank you for splitting this into generations (when you're done!). [[User:Tesh|'''TESH''']][[User_talk:Tesh|'''IGIGAS''']] 21:11, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
::::::Well, okay, maybe Transform isn't Mew's signature move, but it's surely Ditto's. I mean, it's the ONLY thing it can do. --[[User:Phred|Phred]] 23:50, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

==Lucario==

Aura Sphere----[[User:Ultamatecharizard|Ultamatecharizard]] 17:47, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
:No. Several others can use it as well. --[[User:Martonimos|((Marton]] [[User talk:Martonimos|imos))]] 23:53, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
::ya but some Pokémon can use other signature moves and pretty much every Lucario in the anime knows it,and I'm not sure why Togekiss learns it all other Pokémon that learn it because their legendary I mean Chimchar gets Blaze Kick by breeding but it's still Blazikens move------[[user:Ultamatecharizard|AMERICAN ELECTION TODAY!]]
:::Sigh....This is because {{p|Blaziken}} was the only one that could learn it until Gen IV... [[User:Ht14|''ht'']][[User talk:Ht14|''14'']] 19:13, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
::: Lucario is no more Legendary than Togekiss. Not even more rare. --[[User:PLA|PLA]] 07:26, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

== Stop Removing Relicanth, Cranidos, Rampardos, and Mothim ==

I quote, from the top of the page: "Signature moves are moves that can only be learned by a single Pokémon '''or a very small select group of Pokémon by level-up''' (with the exception of Pikachu's Volt Tackle), usually in the same evolutionary line."
So stop removing it, ok? [[User:The Dark Fiddler|The Dark Fiddler]] - [[User talk:The Dark Fiddler|You enter a poorly lit room...]] 20:12, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
:I don't understand the idea behind "signature moves" in many evolutionary lines. Okay then, add there every other move that is in very few movepools. You, go then add Hoppip's Splash in Gen II (there was IIRC only Hoppip and Magikarp back then), Rayquaza's Extremespeed in Gen III and '''every friggin other move that is in 2 or 3 movepools''', okay? Happy hunting, though it won't change my mind about the fact that the introduction there is '''wrong'''. '''UltimateSephiroth''' ([[User:UltimateSephiroth|about me]] · [[User talk:UltimateSephiroth|chat]] · [[Special:Contributions/UltimateSephiroth|edits]]) 20:15, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
::Maybe they should be there; I'm personally too lazy to hunt them, and would rather either A) Keep it like it is, or B) get the intro changed, which is what you should do if you think its wrong. [[User:The Dark Fiddler|The Dark Fiddler]] - [[User talk:The Dark Fiddler|You enter a poorly lit room...]] 20:18, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
:::I'd do the B) if I could, but I can't be sure which way (one family or few families) is more common among players and therefore my edit would be opinionated. '''UltimateSephiroth''' ([[User:UltimateSephiroth|about me]] · [[User talk:UltimateSephiroth|chat]] · [[Special:Contributions/UltimateSephiroth|edits]]) 20:22, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
::::I don't know where the small group of Pokémon came from. That wasn't my idea of a signature move when I created this page. Maybe if the Pokémon were physically alike it would be okay. But Relicanth, Cranidos, and Mothim have nothing in common. Two different families should be the max if at all. Definitely not three. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 22:13, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
:::::It is two families: Relicanth and Cranidos for Head something or other; Mothim's being removed for a different move, Camoflouge or however its spelled. [[User:The Dark Fiddler|The Dark Fiddler]] - [[User talk:The Dark Fiddler|You enter a poorly lit room...]] 22:15, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
:::::Either way, either Relicanth needs to be added because it also knows Head Smash (and is more adept at using it due to Rock Head) or Cranidos/Ramparados need to be removed.--[[User:JacobCrystal|JacobCrystal]] 16:15, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

==This page is in need of SERIOUS clean-up.==

Some moves are counted as signature when they're limited to one Pokémon. Some are counted when they're limited to two Pokémon. Some three Pokémon. Where's the limit? I think two families should be the most.(Branched families are fine.) I'd prefer only one family, but I'll accept anything, just agree on something.

Some moves are counted as "signature" if they're limited to one(or a few) Pokémon NATURALLY...other moves are counted if they're limited OVERALL. I think that TMs/HMs/tutors/"bonus" moves should not matter, Waterfall is still Goldeen and Seaking's signature move. I'd accept the other way too, but it needs to be CONSISTENT.

Not to mention a few of the asterisks are wrong...and some without asterisks could use some. Or it could be split to generations, but I think asterisks work just fine.

The Pikachu that knows Volt Tackle doesn't need to be in the one-off section. Yes, it's only Pichu's signature move...but Pikachus can normally learn it by evolving from Pichu! Pikachu shouldn't be in the table, that is correct, but it doesn't need to be in the one-off either. That should be for examples that COULD NOT happen otherwise, like the Dratini with ExtremeSpeed.[[User:Flint A|Flint A]] 20:09, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
:My opinion is that if a move can be learned by any or all of the Pokémon of '''one''' family naturally or by TM, it is a signature move. If a move is shared with an other family or it is a TM that can be used or a move tutor move that can be taught on more than the family in question, it is not a signature move. Event Pokémon are obviously excluded. '''UltimateSephiroth''' ([[User:UltimateSephiroth|about me]] · [[User talk:UltimateSephiroth|chat]] · [[Special:Contributions/UltimateSephiroth|edits]]) 22:48, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
::That sounds fine to me, a more "exclusive" definition of signature move. Although if something was a signature move at one point, I'd expect it there with an asterisk. The most important thing is that a definition is made. "More is lost by indecision than by wrong decision."[[User:Flint A|Flint A]] 11:03, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

==GrassWhistle==
In GenerationIII, Roselia was the only one who could learn GrassWhistle by leveling up(to lv 29). There are many other pokemon that can learn it now in Generation IV, but it used to be a move unique only to Roselia(by level up). --[[User:PKFL 531|PKFL 531]] 01:38, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

==Removing moves==

Before I edit the actual page, I want to see if everyone agrees to this.

I was thinking of removing the following moves since they're "Signature" titles are questionable:

-----------------------
-{{m|Petal Dance}}

-{{m|Crush Claw}}

-{{m|Splash}}

-{{m|Super Fang}}

-{{m|Beat Up}}

-{{m|Pain Split}}

-{{m|FeatherDance}}

-{{m|Assist}}

-{{m|ExtremeSpeed}}

-{{m|Weather Ball}}

-{{m|Extrasensory}}

-{{m|Megahorn}}

-{{m|Waterfall}}

-{{m|Leaf Blade}}
--------------------------

Yes yes, I know that's quite a lot of moves to pick out. But let's be honest, These moves are a little too common to be "Signature" thanks to other Pokémon showing up or Pokémon learning said moves via Breeding, Level up, Move tutor, TM/HM etc.

If you don't agree with this, I'll ignore this. Or if you want only a specific move or two gone, I'll only get rid of those instead.- ''unsigned comment from {{u|Ninterror}} ([[User talk:Ninterror|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Ninterror|contribs]]) ''

:Personally, I think it might be better to either do away with this article, or sort in into 4 articles, one for each generaton [[User:RB Golbat|RB Golbat]] 20:37, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
::I agree with the idea of splitting them up as these moves were all once signature moves. [[User:Turtwig A|Turt]][[wig]] [[Turtwig (Pokémon)|A]] '''''[[Special:Contributions/Turtwig_A|Contributions]]''''' '''''[[User talk:Turtwig A|Talk]]''''' 00:53, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
:::Why make a whole other article? It says in the asterisk that it was "Prior to Generation X". Just leave it as it is. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 02:46, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Many of those moves are already noted as being signature moves prior to a Generation, as the person above said. However, Beat Up, Crush Claw, Pain Split, Feather Dance, Assist and Extrasensory, are different. They're signature moves in that only a select few Pokémon learn ''by level up'', but can be taught in other ways. In the "Other signature move examples" section, such things are noted, where a move is learned by more than one Pokémon but only by one by level up. I say we move the mentioned moves to a whole new section for "Level Up Signature Moves", where we list the signature moves if we go by moves learned through level and not by tutor or TM or breeding. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 05:32, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

== Blast Burn, Frenzy Plant and Hydro Cannon ==

I would just like to say that I have finally added the elemental hyper beams to the bottom of the page. Feel free to delete it if you like, but I do think that this edit would help the bulbapedia community. ----GEN1[[User:Example|KING]] ''([[User talk:TALK]])'' 06:12, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
: I would disagree here. The signature moves of Charizard, Venusaur, and Blastoise have always been and will always be Flamethrower, SolarBeam, and Hydro Pump, respectively. SSBB even confirms that Charizard's signature move is Flamethrower (not Blast Burn). [[User:Andros 1337|Andros 1337]] 18:13, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
::In most cases I would agree with you, but by the definition f signature move on Bulbapedia, that is extremely inacurate. Though true in a certain sense, Blastoise is not the only pokémon to learn Hydro Pump, and same goes for the rest. Also, no offense, but Super Smash Bros. Trophies are not exactly the most reliable source for canon information :p --[[User:Gen1king|''GEN'']]1[[User talk:Gen1king|KING]] 06:50, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

== Former Signature moves! ==

We should have a section for Pokémon who's moves used to be signature moves, instead of keeping them with the other Pokémon. --Kimori Geckarbor Hinoarashi 13:48, 12 December 2009 (UTC) [[User:Kimori-Hinoarashi|User talk:Kimori-Hinoarashi]] "I reject your reality, and substitute my own." - Adam Savage, after being proven wrong.--''Mythbusters''

== Overhaul ==

Alright, I went for it and changed the main body to only refer to Generation IV signature moves. The list of former signature moves near the bottom might be better as some sort of table, but I'm not good at making tables and it wouldn't be like just copying the first table, as we'd need "unsignature" dates. Also, that list should not be considered comprehensive; it's just the ones that were there already plus the ones from the old list. There might be some missing.

The only controversial change I think is that I specifically limited signature moves to one evolutionary family only, but I seem to see quite a bit of support for that on the talk page and I feel it's the only sensible decision myself.
--[[User:Yoshi348|Yoshi348]] 20:04, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
:just because you "see the support" doesnt mean you just do it, you dont have that power. it has to be definitively discussed for sure. i have undone your edits, but barring a proper definitive discussion, it can be re-added. i want to see what people think in an uncluttered manor. i personally dont see a huge problem in your way, but i also think we can find a better, cleaner layout than yours. -- '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAG]][[User:MAGNEDETH#Interesting Stuff|NE]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|DETH]]''' 20:16, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

== Phantom asterisk ==

Pokemon that had their signature moves learned by other Pokemon with the coming of a new generation were marked with an asterisk. There wasn't a note at the bottom saying what the asterisk was for, but rather one of those things you highlight (dunno what that's called). We should at least have a note in addition to it. [[User:Flyingtypefan|Flyingtypefan]] 00:00, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

== Arcanine's ExtremeSpeed. ==

Shouldn't it say "Prior to Generation II"? It currently says "Prior to generation III". --[[User:PLA|PLA]] 16:10, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

:No, it was Arcanine's sig move prior to gen II, that is, before gen II. Extremespeed didn't exist prior to gen II {{unsigned|Malake256}}
:: Right. I forgot the distinction between Crystal and Gen. II. It was unique to Arcanine "Prior to Crystal". --[[User:PLA|PLA]] 07:19, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

==Metronome==
Signature moves can be moved by any pokemon knowing [[Metronome]]. My [[Togepi]] used metronome, and used [[Doom Desire]]! [[User:Panther2598|Panther2598]]
thats kind of obvious i mean metronome uses a random move from every move existing in a generation and they never said that they couldn't be used they just said that they can't be learned [[User:Juarmo|Juarmo]] 05:06, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

== Oath of Fire, Water and Grass ==

Do you think we should add that?-[[User talk:444Zekrom|444]][[User:444Zekrom|Z]][[Zekrom|ekrom]] 04:23, 03 September 2010 (UTC)
:We should wait until the games are released. For all we know, they could be used by the other starters similar to the elemental Hyper Beams. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 07:18, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

== Blast Burn, Frenzy Plant, and Hydro Cannon again ==

In Generation III, since Charizard, Venusaur, and Blastoise are the only ones who could learn those techniques, they are considered signature moves in that sense yes? So shouldn't they be added to the list and mentioned on the respective moves articles?--[[User:Darknesslover5000|Darknesslover5000]] 05:32, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
:I'll take it. [[Move tutor]]?--[[User talk:444Zekrom|444]][[User:444Zekrom|Z]][[Zekrom|ekrom]] 10:15, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
::They were only the only ones to learn those moves until [[Pokemon XD]] came out, which is still third-gen. --[[User:HeroicJay|HeroicJay]] 10:23, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
:::Hmm... Prior to XD? Hahaha...--[[User talk:444Zekrom|444]][[User:444Zekrom|Z]][[Zekrom|ekrom]] 07:43, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
::::I think it's better not to take XD in consideration, because that game has distributed multiple signature moves, like Psycho Boost or Extrasensory. So I would say prior to generation IV--[[User:Grrgrrgrr1000|Grrgrrgrr1000]] 10:40, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

== "prior to gen ..." signature moves ==

If, according to te article, Signature moves are by definition only learned by either a single Pokémon or a small group of Pokémon, then a lot of the moves listed that say they were signature moves prior to a certain generation were still signature moves, (in cases such as extemespeed, for at least until the generation after) as the definition in no way implies that the pokémon that can learn it have to be related by evolution it just states either that the move can be learned only as a level up move and even then, only by a small number of Pokémon or that the move can only be learned by level up by a small number of pokémon (in which case almost all, if not all are still signature moves). because even though the way the definition is phrased it can be rephrased either way it most certainly can't be rephrased both ways because they are different from meanings from eachother but are synonyms to different definitions of the phrase that defines signature moves. [[User:Juarmo|Juarmo]] 05:07, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

==Ultimate Starter Type Moves==
techinically, the elemental hyper beams would be no less signature moves of the gen 1 starter evolutions in gen 3 than deoxys and its psycho boost (as purified shadow Lugia knew it). In fact, probably less of one as you catch the Lugia but you recieve the XD Jhoto starters from an event (albeit an in game one but still) also if Oddish and Glooms signature that ceased to be a signature by Gen 2 is on the list shouldn't arcanine and his extremespeed be on the list too. if i remember correctly dragon's den dratini didn't count towards extremespeed not still being arcanine's signature move in gen 2 so why should the XD Jhoto starters they're both in game events. [[User:Juarmo|Juarmo]] 23:28, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

== Shadow Signature Moves ==
I think it should be noted that {{m|Shadow Bolt}}, {{m|Shadow Chill}}, {{m|Shadow Fire}} and {{m|Shadow Blast}} are {{p|Zapdos}}, {{p|Articuno}}, {{p|Moltres}} and [[Shadow Lugia]] Signature Moves in Pokémon XD. --[[User:Crikko|'''★''''''Cri''''''ққ''''''ѳ~''''''*''']] 16:52, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

== Clamp was another one of the Shellder line's signature moves... ==

...Until Gen III that is. Could somebody add this? - [[User:050294|050294]] 01:21, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

== Another idea ==

I had an idea for a new column. I would like to mention what kind of signature move they are.
*Exclusive means: Only available to the poke himself, or the evolutionary line of that poke.
*Limited means: A few other pokes can learn it as well by leveling up or by breeding.
*LU exclusive means: The move is exclusive to a certain poke line by leveling up, but several other pokes can learn it by breading or tutoring.
*Common means: The move is now available to a plenty of pokes. Only mentioned if the move used to be exclusive.
*N/A means: it didn't exist that gen.

{| class="bluetable c sortable" border="1" cellpadding="2" align="center"
|- style="background: #ccf;"
! [[List of Pokémon by National Pokédex number|#]]
!
! Name
! Move
! Gen I
! Gen II
! Gen III
! Gen IV
! Gen V
|-
| 015
| {{MSP|015|Beedrill}}
| {{P|Beedrill}}
| {{M|Twineedle}}
| Exclusive Lv. 20
| Exclusive lv. 20
| Exclusive lv. 20
| Exclusive lv. 16
| Limited lv. 16
|-
|}
--[[User:Grrgrrgrr1000|Grrgrrgrr1000]] 10:40, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
:Limited would not be implemented; signature move means it is limited to an individual or family, so those are former signature moves. Level up exclusive is possible, but I don't think it should be implemented. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 11:24, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

== Levels ==

It's not clear from which game the levels are. I also don't see the point of noting the levels.
--[[User:Grrgrrgrr1000|Grrgrrgrr1000]] 10:41, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Victini ==

for the 14th Movie it was said that an event Victini would be given out have the move V-Generate and Ball of Fire, as V-Generate is currently a move only an event Victini can know, should it be put in the 'one-off signature moves' section? [[User:Azure42|Azure42]] 15:38, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

== My definition of 'Signature Move' ==

I say the definition should be "A move that a Pokémon is best known for." As a result, this means that a move that is common can be the signature move of another Pokémon (for example, Rollout can be learned by several different kinds of Pokémon, but Geodude's evolutionary family may have it as their signature move, because Graveler is said to use it often down mountains in Firered's description of it). Another example is Psycho Cut - Gallade would most likely have the attack as its signature move had this description of signature move been used. --[[User:Psyblade|Psyblade]] 18:43, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:I think it's a very good point, however, Pokédex entries sometimes state misleading facts, such as Dusclops learning {{m|Hypnosis}}, which it actually can't. So, although a good definition of "signature move", I don't think it's good enough to point Pokédex entries in the article. '''[[User:Hfc2x|hfc]][[User talk:Hfc2x|2X]]''' 23:59, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

==Trivia?==
The trivia says, that Vespiquen is the only Pokémon with 3 signature moves, while the same is true for Kyurem (as the table says). Shouldn't it be edited? --[[User:KingisNitro|KingisNitro]] 08:46, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
:No, because Kyurem can't actually learn Ice Burn or Freeze Shock. They are speculated to be its signature moves. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 08:58, 7 May 2011 (UTC)

==Cubone and Marowak==
Both of these are only listed under Former Signature Moves, however both have two current signature moves. Bone Rush, out. Bone Club and Bonemerang, good. So why aren't Cubone and Marowak under the current signature moves? [[User:Ikarishipper900|Ikarishipper900]] 01:10, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

== Current definition is SERIOUSLY flawed! ==

The current definition of signature move here is '''seriously''' flawed. The definition should be the move the Pokémon is most known for, not any random move that is exclusive to it. While at times moves that a Pokémon is most known for may also be exclusive to it (such as Smeargle's Sketch), that is not always the case. For example, even though Charizard was the only Pokémon able to learn Blast Burn prior to XD, Charizard is never shown using it in any Pokémon media; usually Charizard is shown using Flamethrower, and in the anime, Seismic Toss. Furthermore, Charizard is a Gen I Pokémon, and it is absurd to say that a Gen III move is its signature move, considering Charizard predates Gen III.

I really think the definition should be corrected here. [[User:Andros 1337|Andros 1337]] 00:05, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
:I don't think it's flawed at all. A signature move exclusive to that Pokémon. Meaning that the move can only be learned by that Pokémon. While Rollout is well know for a Miltank for example that doesn't make it a signature move. Sketch is a signature move because only one Pokémon can learn it and that is Smergle. This was discussed before. [[User:Pokemaster97|--Pokemaster]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|97]] 00:09, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

:Random move? How is it a random move when it's '''a move that can only be learned by a single Pokémon or its family'''? Just because a certain move is showed off more by a certain Pokémon does not mean it's its signature. Signature refers to a Pokémon's exclusive move which means it can only be learned by a certain Pokémon or at a certain time.

:Your definition seems to be judged by what you have seen in the anime which is biased to all other media. All things should relate to the game which are used universally. Might as well say BubbleBeam is Piplup's signature move and Thunderbolt is Pikachu's. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 00:18, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
::What about Ditto's Transform, which is obviously Ditto's signature move because it is Ditto's ONLY move, despite the fact that Mew can learn Transform as well? The fact is, Charizard is never shown using Blast Burn in the anime or any other Pokémon media besides the main games. Also, consider that Blast Burn is a tutored move, not a level-up move. [[User:Andros 1337|Andros 1337]] 00:46, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
::Plus, SSB confirms Flamethrower as Charizard's signature move. [[User:Andros 1337|Andros 1337]] 00:54, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

:::Leveling up has nothing to do with it. Volt Tackle is an egg move that is bred on to Pichu. There's also Meloetta who can only learn its signature move through tutoring. And again, the amount of times the move is shown in the anime has nothing to do with it. In the defense of Transform, Mew has the capability of learning every move through the move tutor in XD from Generation III and below. Though I'll give you that Mew can learn that one by level up. Not to mention that it's Ditto's only move. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 01:03, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
:::Also, SSB is not a true Pokémon game to be taking sources from... It's Charizard signature move in that game, not in the Pokémon games. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 01:03, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
::::So, could you tell me what was Charizard's signature move in Gens I and II? The definition of the word "signature" does not mean "exclusive", it means what the Pokémon is most notable for. [[User:Andros 1337|Andros 1337]] 06:27, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
::::Another example: Take a look at Vaporeon and Jolteon. Obviously their signature moves are Acid Armor and Pin Missile, respectively, as confirmed by their Pokédex entries. However, even in Gen I, Grimer and Muk were able to learn Acid Armor as well, and Beedrill was able to learn Pin Missile. If those aren't Vaporeon's and Jolteon's signature moves, I don't know what else can be. [[User:Andros 1337|Andros 1337]] 06:31, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

:::::See... the thing is Flamethrower can be other Pokémon's most known move. Every single Fire-type can learn it in some way. It's not so signature when so many other Pokémon can use it too.

:::::None of Vaporeon's and Jolteon's Pokédex entries say that Acid Armor and Pin Missile are their signature moves. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 06:47, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
::::::While they don't mention the moves by name, they mention that Vaporeon can melt into water, and that Jolteon can raise its fur to pierce foes. That implies Acid Armor and Pin Missile, respectively. [[User:Andros 1337|Andros 1337]] 15:20, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
I think you're not understanding here. Not all Pokémon have signature moves. A signature move is a move only that Pokémon or it's family can learn. Examples: Meowth {{m|Pay Day}} Chansey and Blissy {{m|Softboiled}}, The Porygon family {{m|Conversion}} and {{m|Conversion 2}}. This is what a signature move is. Your argument is incorrect. [[User:Pokemaster97|--Pokemaster]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|97]] 15:26, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
:No, that is your own interpretation of a signature move, which is clearly defective for the reasons I gave above. Unless we find an official source confirming your interpretation is correct, it is nothing but a fan implication. [[User:Andros 1337|Andros 1337]] 18:16, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
::Your last comment applies equally to your own definition. I suggest you take a step back and calm down. Also, [http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/signature?rdfrom=Signature#Adjective signature, used as an adjective] implies distinctiveness, not commonness. Thus, the current definition is correct to the meaning of the word, so you will need very strong official evidence in order for it to change. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] [[User talk:Werdnae|(talk)]] 20:17, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
:::I don't feel like the definition is flawed, but maybe an allowance for Ditto would be nice. [[User:Ikarishipper900|Ikarishipper900]] 15:52, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

== {{p|Clefairy}} and {{m|Meteor Mash}} ==

I don't understand this. In the [[Signature move#Other signature move examples|Other signature move examples]] section, it says: "Although {{p|Clefairy}} can learn '''{{m|Meteor Mash}}''' by leveling up in any Generation III game, the only Pokémon that were able to learn it legally before release of {{2v2|FireRed|LeafGreen}} were {{p|Metang}} and its evolved form, {{p|Metagross}}." However, the {{p|Metang}}, {{m|Meteor Mash}}, and {{p|Clefairy}} articles don't make any mention of this, and the sentence itself doesn't make any sense. --[[User:Enervation|Enervation]] 23:43, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
:It's saying that since you couldn't get Clefairy until FRLG came out, despite that Clefairy can learn Meteor Mash in RS, Clefairy couldn't because there weren't any Clefairy in RS. [[User:Bluesun|Bluesun]] 00:38, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

== New design ==

I'm REALLY liking the new template, but I think it could use a little more organization. Like, either we organize them by number (the only ones not by number are the ones grouped with their cross-generational evolutions), or by the generation in which they gained their signature move (then by number). I'm not sure...what does everyone think? '''[[User:LimeGreenCharizard|LimeGreen]]''[[User talk:LimeGreenCharizard|Charizard]]'''''[[Special:Contributions/LimeGreenCharizard|♂]] 16:35, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
:I agree it should be done by Ndex number. It's too jumbled and a little confusing as it is. If someone wanted to look for Pikachu, they have to go down to Pichu, and that's just sloppy. [[Typhlosion (Pokémon)|★]][[User:Jo The Marten|Jo the Marten]][[Flygon (Pokémon)|★]] [[User_Talk:Jo The Marten|ಠ_ಠ]][[Cilan (anime)|♥]] 16:43, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
::Yeah I agree with what was said above. It is kind of confusing. Ndex would be a little more organized. [[User:Pokemaster97|--Pokemaster]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|97]] 16:45, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
:::How about making the columns sortable? Also the Pikachu line's placement was something I forgot to fix, so I'll move them to 025. [[User:Pikiwyn|'''Pikiwyn''']] [[User talk:Pikiwyn|<tt>'''''talk'''''</tt>]] 16:57, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
::::Sortable sounds fine to me. [[Typhlosion (Pokémon)|★]][[User:Jo The Marten|Jo the Marten]][[Flygon (Pokémon)|★]] [[User_Talk:Jo The Marten|ಠ_ಠ]][[Cilan (anime)|♥]] 17:01, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

== V-create still a signature move? ==
Now that {{p|Rayquaza}} knows {{m|V-create}} via event (the same way that Victini learns it), is V-create still Victini's signature move, is it both Victini's and Rayquaza's, or is it not a signature move at all? Personally, I'd remove it from the list for now, since now it's a one-off move for both Victini ''and'' Rayquaza. --[[User:Darthrai|Darthrai]] 19:35, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

:You make a lot of sense, and I'd certainly wait for more people to weigh in. However, I think that the name of V-Create certainly points it to it being a signature move of Victini, since many things about Victini are closely associated with the letter ''V''. There isn't really a set standard to which we can hold a "signature move," so I think claiming its status as "debatable" is appropriate. --[[User:Politoed666|''P'' ''o'']] [[User talk:Politoed666|''L'' ''i'']] 20:27, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

::There's a bunch a moves on the list that are like that. Why change it now? Personally, I don't think we should change the status of a signature move just because of an event. They do that all the time. Like the Victini from the movie with Zekrom and Reshiram's moves and the Lugia from XD with Deoxys's move. Rayquaza cannot normally get that move and unless it is normal, then we shouldn't worry about it. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 00:22, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

::Just realized V-create is the move Victini only knows by event as well. Just still, to me it was obviously made for it. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 00:24, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

::: Agreed - V-create was made for Victini (and I think that I made that clear on the page), but neither Victini nor Rayquaza can learn it through normal gameplay (both of them learn it via event). As for it being a signature move because it was made for Victini, I think {{m|Megahorn}} presents a similar case (though not to the same degree). It was made for {{p|Heracross}} in Generation II (why else would a generic horn attack be Bug-type?) until they made all sorts of other Pokémon, both old and new, able to learn it in future generations. Now, V-create is much more "characteristic" of Victini and probably won't become a widespread move, but having aesthetics and themes associated with a certain Pokémon doesn't seem like a criterion for being a signature move at the moment according to the page's description (we can always change it though). [[User:Darthrai|Darthrai]] 04:15, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
:::: I personally don't feel it applies to what the meaning of signature move is as it says it can be learned by level up '''or other means'''. Think of it this way. If Relic Song is given by event to another Pokémon, say Cresselia, does that mean it's not Meloetta's signature move anymore because it doesn't learn it by level up even though that's what changes its form? Some common sense should be used in these instead of following the definition so strictly. If the Pokémon itself has an obvious connection to the move we should take that into consideration. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 00:35, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
:::::Which is why I had to revert Darthrai and MisterE13--[[User:SandmanDP|SandmanDP]] 00:37, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
::::::Actually, it's not as simple as that. The thing is, Meloetta can learn Relic Song via tutor; if the same tutor could be used to teach it to Cresselia, I wouldn't personally consider it Meloetta's signature move anymore (since they can both obtain the move on ''equally'' favorable terms). However, if Cresselia got the move via event, I'd still personally consider it Meloetta's signature move, since Meloetta obtains it on ''more'' favorable terms. Right now, Victini and Rayquaza both know V-create on ''equally'' favorable terms (a one-off move for both Pokémon); however, you're right that we should consider if the Pokémon has an obvious connection to the move, so we should make that clear. (In Relic Song's case, it helps that, unlike V-create, it doesn't scream "THIS MOVE BELONGS TO MELOETTA".) [[User:Darthrai|Darthrai]] 19:05, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
:::You're still not making any sense. Relic Song is Meloetta's, and V-create is Victini's. Roar of Time and Spacial Rend are Dialga and Palkia's respectively despite movie 10 Dialga and movie 12 Arceus. Please stop dragging this--[[User:SandmanDP|SandmanDP]] 19:08, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
::::And Dialga and Palkia know Roar of Time and Spacial Rend via level-up, whereas Darkrai and Arceus only know it via event. It's not the same. Still, the current definition and status is good, I just think it's worth noting that Rayquaza and Victini both get V-create through similar methods despite it being Victini's signature move. I don't think this has ever happened before, especially since event-exclusive moves only debuted this generation.[[User:Darthrai|Darthrai]] 19:19, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
:::::It is very much the same. Darkrai and Arceus learn it by equal means... Please stop. V-Create is Victini's signature move and happens to lend it to Rayquaza ONCE. Doesn't mean V-Create isn't Victini's signature movI'd also like to point out 
"Also, some of these moves can be passed down via breeding to other Pokémon '''or are known by certain event Pokémon'''". Case closed. --[[User:SandmanDP|SandmanDP]] 19:21, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
: Sure, but if we go a long time without this kind of thing happening again (''event-exclusive'' signature moves being known by both the Pokémon they're intended for and another Pokémon ''on equal terms''), maybe the issue can be revisited.[[User:Darthrai|Darthrai]] 19:31, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
::It doesn't have to be revisited. Leave it alone. Admins have already spoken on the matter and say to leave it alone--[[User:SandmanDP|SandmanDP]] 19:33, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
::: I meant like several years or when Gen VI comes around with more event-exclusive moves. When I said "a long time", I meant "a long time" and that I don't think it's worth starting any further arguments at this point in Pokémon event history (so I'm leaving it alone) Oh well, in any case it's just one minor piece of stating the obvious about one event, I shouldn't have made a big deal about it.--[[User:Darthrai|Darthrai]] 19:34, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
::::By the definition of signature move, V-create is not Victini's signature move. However, it is a move that is associated with Victini. So based on Victini's associations with the move, you could say that it is its "signature move", but that is not the definition of signature move. To keep the definition firm, we cannot consider it to be Victini's signature move unless it learns it via a method other than event, like how we didn't consider it Victini's signature move until it was distributed with it. So what should happen is this; V-create should not be listed as a signature move of Victini, but it should most certainly be listed under "Other signature move examples". --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 14:54, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
Can I suggest that, perhaps, V-Create isn't a Signature Move, so much as an Event Move? It's a move that cannot be known by any pokemon except perhaps via an Event, at least at a certain point. Another example would be Volt Tackle, which, until the release of Pokemon Emerald, couldn't be learned by any pokemon, or Kinesis, which couldn't be learned by any pokemon until Pokemon Yellow. Note that an "Event Move" wouldn't necessarily have been released via Event, it's just that, without an event, it would be unavailable up to a certain time (this could include moves only found as egg moves up to a certain point, if any exist). And on a side note, if a pokemon uses Metronome, and then Smeargle Sketches it, will it learn Metronome, or the resulting move? I ask because, if Smeargle sketches the metronomed move, then it would be possible for it to sketch Volt Tackle in RS/FRLG, or V-Create in DP. [[User:Aielyn|Aielyn]] 15:19, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
:Another example of an Event move is a little more literal than the others - Snarl. At this time, it is only available through obtaining an Event Zoroark, and then breeding it to other pokemon from there. However, once another event, the Lock Capsule, is made available, it will be available as a TM... but still, it's an Event Move, since you need an event to access it in either case. [[User:Aielyn|Aielyn]] 06:56, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
:Those are more "delayed release moves" than "event" moves. And I don't think it is really that relevant (by your definition, {{m|Kinesis}} is both a signature move and an "event move"). And to answer your question, Smeargle will Sketch Metronome. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 12:48, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
::Isn't "delayed release" just another word for "event", in this context? After all, you can catch Mew in Emerald, but you can't do so until a delayed release event. When Ruby/Sapphire were released, one couldn't legitimately get Volt Tackle. Not knowing how they'd give you access to the move, wouldn't it be reasonable to consider it an event-exclusive move? That the "event" ended up being "the release of Emerald" is irrelevant to this point. And yes, Kinesis would be both an event move and a signature move - nothing wrong with that. It was an event move in Red/Blue, and then a signature move after that. Volt Tackle was an event move in RS/FRLG, and a signature move after that. V-Create is currently an event move. It may happen that, with the "third version" release, Victini will be able to learn V-Create by move tutor or level up, in which case it would be a signature move. Until the move can be "learned", it really can't be called a signature move. It is ''speculated'' that the move was made for Victini, but it's only speculation, it hasn't been confirmed. It's entirely possible that, come the next pokemon game, it will be Rayquaza that learns it naturally, and not Victini... would that make it a Rayquaza signature move? [[User:Aielyn|Aielyn]] 04:37, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
:::The reason I used "delayed release" over "event" is because event specifically refers to things only available via event distributions, which is not true of things like Kinesis and Volt Tackle. It is unreasonable to assume a move is an event move if it has not been released yet—those are "unreleased moves" ({{m|Sacred Sword}} and {{m|Relic Song}} of course are exceptions due to being triggered by events, and {{m|Snarl}} was as well before it was available due to the event TM). However, I'm not really sure how this "event move" argument is relevant here anyway. And Mew in Emerald is still event-exclusive. However, I agree with you that it is not currently a signature move, and that it may become one again in the next game. Also, I highly doubt Rayquaza will learn it outside of events if Victini doesn't—however, it is possible that if there is a move tutor, they would both be able to learn it. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 10:03, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
::::The relevance is that it gives an argument towards ''not'' including V-Create on this page. Indeed, I'd argue that, even prior to the event Rayquaza, it was not a Signature Move, because the move was only available through an event, and thus couldn't be reliably associated with Victini, even if Victini was the only one that had gotten it. Let me give you a hypothetical analogy. Suppose that, during Gen III, an event occurred for FRLG, where you got a Voltorb that knows Volt Tackle. Would that make Volt Tackle a Voltorb signature move? I mean, it has "Volt" in it, and only Voltorb would have it. I'd argue that, until the move is part of a pokemon's available moveset without an event, it cannot be a signature move. [[User:Aielyn|Aielyn]] 11:09, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
:::::In your hypothetical situation, I would argue that Volt Tackle would be Voltorb's signature move until another Pokémon could learn the move, with events always being ignored if there is another way for a Pokémon to learn it. However, since we agree about the way the page should be now and are merely debating hypotheticals, I don't think we need to continue this discussion unless someone argues for the inclusion of V-create. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 11:21, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

I'm sorry fellas but V-create actually is Victini's signature move!! Just not in Japan, because in that country Rayquaza can learn it. But this still means its Victini's signature move in the rest of the whole world!!! Just add V-create with a little star explaining its not a signature move anymore in Japan and we're done. [[User:Nickvang|Nickvang]] ([[User talk:Nickvang|talk]]) 14:28, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

==I'm sorry...==
...but your definition of "signature move" is seriously flawed. Any definition of the term that doesn't allow Transform and Moonlight to be categorized as Ditto and Umbreon's respective signature moves is just wrong. So what if there were few other Pokémon who learned it in the generation it was introduced on? We're too worried about following rules and guidelines to the point that we're sacrificing common sense. Everyone considers Transform to Ditto's signature move despite Mew (who is only a event Pokémon and thus didn't even exist for the average player back in the Gen I days) learning it, too. And considering that Espeon's signature move is Morning Sun, it's obvious that the developers intended Moonlight to be considered the signature move of his counterpart, Umbreon. - [[User:Ericss|Ericss]] 17:53, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
:I can see Ditto being an exception. But Umbereon and Moonlight? I never once thought of it being a signature move for Umbreon. And they only reason we consider it a signature for Espeon in Gen II is because it was the only Pokémon that could learn it.

:Anyway, please look a few sections up to see the definition of "signature". It means ''distinctive''. It's not distinctive when other Pokémon can learn it too. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 05:44, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
::Wouldn't that make Ditto a Signature Pokemon for Transform? [[User:Aielyn|Aielyn]] 09:25, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

:::If another Pokémon can learn a move via level, TM or breeding it is not considered a signature move. A signature move must be a move only usable by one Pokémon (Mew can learn Transform and Clefairy, Oddish, Cresselia etc. can learn Moonlight).--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 10:08, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

==Oshawott and evolutions==
Shouldn't Razor Shell be Oshawott/Dewott/Samurott's signature moves? [[User:JacobTheDoduo|JacobTheDoduo]] 19:36, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
:Shellder [[Razor Shell (move)#Learnset|also learns it by level]]. So no. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] [[User talk:Werdnae|(talk)]] 20:55, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

== Signature Move recovery ==

Ok, "Also, some of these moves can be passed down via breeding to other Pokémon or are known by certain event Pokémon." Well how about Signature Move recovery? Sometimes there's only one Pokémon able to learn a move in that generation: Skarmory and Steel Wing for exemple, but because many Pokémon can learn it in a previous generation it isn't a Signature Move. This means that if TM 47 hadn't existed in gen 3 and 4 but in gen 5, Steel Wing would've been Skarmory's Signature Move for two generations and it would've lost this status in gen 5. But now its reversed and so it means Steel Wing isn't Skarmory's Signature Move in any generation!? I personally don't think so. And by the way Mega Kick is Hitmonlee's Signature Move, but there many Pokémon able to learn it in Firered and Leafgreen. So that's why Steel Wing (still for exemple) has to be Skarmory Signature Move. [[User:Nickvang|Nickvang]] ([[User talk:Nickvang|talk]]) 14:40, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
:I agree. They have been added. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 11:22, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

== One table more. ==

In 'Other signature move examples' are many exemples of moves which only one evolutionary line can learn by leveling up, but can be learned by other Pokémon too via TM. Could we give those exemples their own table? Just like the one for the real signature moves. This would make the page a little more clear. [[User:Nickvang|Nickvang]] ([[User talk:Nickvang|talk]]) 19:42, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
:Squirtle's evolutionary family and Sharpedo are the only Pokémon to learn Skull Bash by leveling up, but other Pokémon could learn it through TM40 in Generation I.
Sudowoodo is the only Pokémon to learn Mimic by leveling up in Generation II, but other Pokémon could learn it through TM31 in Generation I and Move Tutor in Generation III.
In Generations II, IV and V and Pokémon Ruby and Sapphire, Hitmonlee is the only Pokémon who can learn Mega Kick. However, in Generation I and Pokémon FireRed and LeafGreen, others could learn it through TM and Move Tutor respectively.
Unown can learn only Hidden Power; however, almost every other Pokémon can learn it via TM10 in Generation II and beyond.
Although several Pokémon can learn it by TM, until Generation III only Diglett and Dugtrio could learn Dig by level up.
Prior to Generation V, Vigoroth is the only Pokémon to learn Focus Punch by leveling up, although many other Pokémon can learn it via TM01.
Porygon-Z is the only Pokémon to learn Trick Room by leveling up, although that move can be learned via TM92.
Almost every Pokémon is able to learn Facade via TM42. However, Chimchar is the only one to learn it by leveling up prior to Generation V.
Although only Panpour and its evolution are the only Pokémon to learn Scald by leveling up, other Pokémon can learn it via TM55.
Also, Pansage is currently the only Pokémon to learn Grass Knot by leveling up, yet other Pokémon can learn it via TM86.
Kadabra and Alakazam are the only Pokémon to learn Ally Switch by leveling up, but other Pokémon can learn it through TM51 in Generation V.
Sawk is the only Pokémon to learn Rock Smash by leveling up, but other Pokémon can learn it through TM94 in Generation V.
Emolga is the only Pokémon to learn Volt Switch by leveling up, but other Pokémon can learn it through TM72 in Generation V. [[User:Nickvang|Nickvang]] ([[User talk:Nickvang|talk]]) 19:47, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

== Do skill swap and steel wing really count as signature moves? ==

I think something should only be considered a signature more IF only one Pokémon or only the Pokémon from one evolutionary line can learn it since the beginning. But I wouldn't say that steel wing is really Skarmory's signature move since it was a TM earlier on. Yeah, it's no longer a TM, but that doesn't make it Skarmory's signature move all of a sudden.

Also regarding skill swap, that's also a move that used to be a TM, so I wouldn't say it's a signature move either. What do you guys think? [[User:TheBlazikenMaster|TheBlazikenMaster]] ([[User talk:TheBlazikenMaster|talk]]) 15:18, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
:Steel Wing is definitely a signature move, because even though it was a TM for several generations, Skarmory learned it by level up in all those generations as well, and was the ''only'' Pokemon to learn it by level up. If anything, I think it should be listed as Skarmory's signature move in Gen 2-5 instead of just 5. Skill Swap is a slightly trickier matter that will probably require a more refined definition of "signature move" to resolve satisfactorily one way or the other.
:Personally, I think we should refine the definition so that it doesn't matter if a plethora of Pokemon can learn a move by a "lower"/"less common" method (i.e. TMs, Move Tutors, events); as long as only one family can learn it by level up, that is its signature move. (And if nothing learns it by level up and only one thing learns it by another method, that's also a signature move, of course.) But that's just my opinion. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 16:01, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
::In that case would you say that {{m|return}} is {{p|Lopunny}}'s signature move? Sure, that move was introduced long before Loponny was but Lopunny is the only Pokémon that learns it by level up. [[User:TheBlazikenMaster|TheBlazikenMaster]] ([[User talk:TheBlazikenMaster|talk]]) 16:12, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
:::That's why I said Skill Swap (which is in the same boat) is a tricky matter. There should probably be a provision where widely/universally-available TMs like Return aren't signature moves unless the one Pokémon that learns it by level up has been able to learn it at least as long as the move has been a TM. On the other hand, something like Softboiled was obviously Chansey's signature move even in Gen 1, in which nothing learned it by level up and the TM was only learnable by Chansey and Mew (which, of course, can learn anything). Of course, those are both extremes on opposite sides of the spectrum, and examples that are somewhere in the middle (like Skill Swap) are more difficult to figure. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 17:24, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

== A few things... ==

First... Why don't egg moves disqualify a signature move? Due to them, moves like Present and Beat Up are VERY widespread, compared to moves like Softboiled and Needle Arm that get disqualified for very small numbers of other Pokemon.
Second... Why does Volt Tackle count as a Pikachu signature when it can't learn it by any means itself? (It can only get it by evolving a Pichu that knows it <which should also qualify Raichu and a bunch of other families' Pokemon if this counts> or by events <which have been noted to generally not count>.)
Third... Why does Sacred Sword (and relatedly, Fusion Flare/Bolt) count as a signature move for the Swords of Justice (who aren't technically related by family) when Rolling Kick (which only Hitmonlee and Hitmontop, who are related, can learn, excluding egg moves) doesn't from Generation 2 onwards?
Fourth... Needle Arm isn't learned by anything other than Cacnea/Cacturne in Generation 4, either. (It's only marked as being signature in Generation 3.)
Fifth... Only the Whismur line learned Sleep Talk, except by breeding, in Ruby and Sapphire.
[[User:RiverShock|RiverShock]] ([[User talk:RiverShock|talk]]) 16:00, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

== Misplacing ==

Is there a reason why Jynx (#124) is placed after Magikarp (#129)? I searched the rest of the list and didn't see this error again. [[User:PokefanR|PokefanR]] ([[User talk:PokefanR|talk]]) 23:10, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

== outrage and dragonite ==

outrage was the dratini's family signature move in gen 2 and that isn't on the list [[User:0danmaster0|0danmaster0]] ([[User talk:0danmaster0|talk]]) 15:53, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
:By level-up, yes. Charmander and Larvitar can learn it by breeding, so I'm not sure how to categorize this. [[User:Bwburke94|Bwburke94]] ([[User talk:Bwburke94|talk]]) 07:46, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
::Breeding is ignored for signature moves. Because by that logic, eg. {{m|Pay Day}} would be signature only in G3-G4 (G1 has TM, G2 has breed from TM and G5 has breed), when it's signature since G2. [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] ([[User talk:Marked +-+-+|talk]]) 09:04, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
:::actually I just didn't see it it the list lol [[User:0danmaster0|0danmaster0]] ([[User talk:0danmaster0|talk]]) 12:28, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

== Nuzzle ==

Would Nuzzle count as a pseudo signature as it can only be learned by Pikachu and it's imitators? [[User:Guybrush20X6|Guybrush20X6]] ([[User talk:Guybrush20X6|talk]]) 09:41, 15 November 2013 (UTC)
:That seems notable, I guess, but I'm going to say no. It's like how Glare is only learnable by snake-based Pokémon (excluding breeding). Since all those rodents are unrelated by evolution, it just comes down to specifics on how the move is actually used (description involves "electrified cheeks"). --[[User:Kianglo|KiANGLO]] ''([[User talk:Kianglo|TALK]])'' 15:22, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

== Definition ==

This article doesn't give a clear definition of what conditions we consider a move to be a signature move and what conditions we don't. All it says is that ''Most are learned by leveling up but some can be learned through other means when no Pokémon can learn the move by leveling up''. There's no addressing what disqualifies a signature move: do TMs? do Egg moves? do event moves? do all of these disqualify in all cases, or are there special circumstances? There's been a lot of disagreement on this talk page about what constitutes a signature move, so we need to actually state ''our definition'' in the article so it's clear to readers. I would do so myself, but I don't know what that definition is to me because {{tt|our criteria make no sense to me|Really, Soft-Boiled is disqualified from Gen I Chansey on this page because it's a TM, but there's no mention of ''since Generation II'' in Soft-Boiled's article?}}. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 19:38, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

== Solosis line and Skill Swap? ==

Does Skill Swap really count as being a signature move for the Solosis line? Sure, they were the first ones to be able to learn it by level up, but many others could learn it through other means. Heck, the move itself appeared two generations before the Pokémon did. If no one has any objections, I think it should be removed. --[[User:RiverAura|River]][[User_Talk:RiverAura|Aura]] 00:16, 15 January 2014 (UTC)
:Yeah, it definitely doesn't fit since it can be taught by Move Tutor in the same Generation it's listed as being a signature move in. [[User:Glik|Glik]] ([[User talk:Glik|talk]]) 00:31, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

== Event moves... ==

Should Hold Back and Happy Hour really be considered signature moves? They're not naturally known by any Pokemon, and several moves that otherwise qualify as Signature moves on this list, such as Shift Gear, Spacial Rend and Fusion Bolt have been given to event Pokemon. The fact they're only known by 1 Pokemon seems meaningless since any Pokemon could (and in all probability, will) be given them. (And again, no Pokemon actually learns them naturally.)

Incidentally, the list of "One-off signature moves" is rather incomplete. (Being both outdated, and lacking some earlier ones like XD's Frenzy Plant/Blast Burn/Hydro Cannon Gen 2 starters.)

Given Egg Moves seem to be ignored, Whismur/Loudred/Exploud should have Sleep Talk as a signature move in Ruby/Sapphire and Spoink/Grumpig should have Magic Coat as a signature move in the entirety of Gen 3. If Hold Back and Happy Hour are deemed to be valid signature moves, then Snarl should be a signature move of Zoroark in Black/White since TM95 wasn't legitimately obtainable, and thus event Zoroark (or a trade back from BW2, which also shouldn't count, since otherwise it would disqualify things like Meowth's Gen 2 Pay Day) is the only Pokemon that can know it outside breeding in those games. [[User:RiverShock|RiverShock]] ([[User talk:RiverShock|talk]]) 23:54, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

:In order for a Pokémon to qualify as having a signature move, it must meet one of the following conditions: (1) It must be the only Pokémon (or Pokémon family) to learn the move (excluding Smeargle using Sketch), or (2) It must be the only Pokémon (or Pokémon family) to learn the move by Level Up. At the time of this writing, Celebi's Hold Back and Inkay's Happy Hour qualify them for condition #1. If a later event is released giving the move to a different Pokémon, then they will cease being signature moves, and they will be removed. If a later game is released where the moves are available to more Pokémon, the same will occur. Celebrate and V-Create are good examples of this. They are event-exclusive moves, but they are available to multiple evolution lines, with Celebrate being found on both Pikachu and Eevee (plus evolutions), and V-Create being available to both Victini and Rayquaza. Shift Gear, Spacial Rend, Fusion Bolt, etc. are considered signature moves because their users qualify for condition #2, they are the only Pokémon capable of learning the move through Level Up. Snarl on Zoroark was a signature move of Zoroark in Black/White, however, it isn't listed because we don't list things by games, we list them by generation, and the move is not exclusive to Zoroark when you look at Generation V as a whole - which would include Black 2/White 2. Meowth's Gen 2 Pay Day is a signature move because it qualifies for both conditions in Gen 2. --[[User:GoldenSandslash15|GoldenSandslash15]] ([[User talk:GoldenSandslash15|talk]]) 04:14, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
::Actually, GoldenSandslash, we do frequently list things by game instead of generation. See, for example, the Alakazam line's Kinesis in Yellow or Hitmonchan's Vacuum Wave in Diamond/Pearl. Also, your condition #2 is wrong; a TM is also enough to disqualify it, even if only one family can learn it by level up. (I strongly disagree with this criterion, but for some reason it exists.) In any case, I agree that TM95 being unobtainable in BW shouldn't make Snarl Zoroark's signature move, because if you do get a TM95 in BW somehow (tradeback or cheating), it is programmed to be compatible with tons of Pokemon, so it's ''technically'' in their movesets, and it's not programmed to be in Zoroark's level up moveset at all. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]])
:::TMs aren't tradeable in Gen 5, so there has never been (and never will be) a way to teach a Pokemon a move via TM95 in Black/White without cheating. The only way TM95's compatibility is referred to at all in Black/White is by breeding a tradeback or this Zoroark. (Or a Smeargle that Sketched from this Zoroark or a tradeback, I guess.) And breeding doesn't disqualify a signature move. Why should unobtainable moves in a Pokemon's potential learnset count towards disqualifying a signature move? [[User:RiverShock|RiverShock]] ([[User talk:RiverShock|talk]]) 17:39, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

== Bone/Rolling Kick thing ==

The removed fact was:
* Bone Club and Bonemerang are the only STAB signature moves throughout all 6 generations.

I don't think Rolling Kick counts because Machop, Hitmontop, and Elekid can learn it. Thus the Bone attacks are the only true signature moves. (IMO, the only signature egg move is Volt Tackle)

And in case someone says Kinesis, it does no damage, thus doesn't qualify for STAB. [[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 22:43, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
:Regardless, Rolling Kick is still a signature move, "true" signature move or not. Once you try to add too many conditions to make a factoid seem unique, it just becomes not notable enough to add. --[[User:Carmenstar97|Carmen★]] ''[[User talk:Carmenstar97|(Talk |]] [[Special:Contributions/Carmenstar97|contribs)]]'' 22:56, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

== Discuss please: Move Tutor vs. level-up ==

It has come to my attention on the {{m|Electroweb}} page that, for some reason, we consider it Joltik/Galvantula's signature move in BW, not in B2W2, again in XY, and then not in ORAS, simply because of the B2W2 and ORAS move tutors. This is frankly ridiculous and makes no sense whatsoever. It was also pointed out that Hitmonlee's Mega Kick is also subject to this problem in Gen III.

The fact is that, in a post-Gen III world in which Pokémon can be and regularly are transferred forward and in which Move Tutor availability is extremely broad in some games and extremely narrow in others, the current criteria for signature moves are obscure, difficult to divine, and needlessly convoluted. The simple fact should be that if a Pokémon or evolutionary line is the only one who can learn a move (barring events), that should be its signature move, and if any other Pokémon can have legal access to it by any means (including intergenerational transfer), it should not be considered a signature move. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 19:32, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
:I've actually agreed with that for a while; the only reason I undid your edit was because those were the rules lol. Can we please change this? [[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 20:12, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty possible to complain both ways.
::We already exclude events or other special circumstances (or {{m|Pay Day}} wouldn't be Meowth's signature move in Gen II/III), and you can kind of view transferred Pokemon like events, if nothing else in the game lets you pass down the move or anything. (...It looks like Hoppip can learn Pay Day by breeding in Gen II, though; by that, I don't support calling it Meowth's signature move for Gen II, actually.)
::I pretty much think a move should be a signature move in Generation [X] if no one can learn it newly outside of one family. Our intro is plenty ambiguous, though. If we could settle on one definition, I'd certainly love to make it much clearer. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 17:03, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
:::I think I both agree and disagree. I understand how it seems odd for Electroweb's status as a signature move to bounce back and forth, however that's not a particularly common occurrence, and I think it still fits in with the spirit of a signature move. After all, Audino had Secret Power as a signature move in Gen V, even though nearly any Pokémon could exist on those cartridges knowing that move through transfers. I disagree, then, that transfer availability disqualifies a move from being a "signature" move. I also think that the criteria for signature moves are in no way obscure or "difficult to divine", regardless of whether or not I agree with them. A move is a signature move 'in a particular game' if only one family of Pokémon—either evolutionary line or related Legendaries—can learn it without breeding. Transfers and events can be considered reasonable exceptions as they both require interaction outside the game itself (connection to another game or download server—conditions not pre-loaded onto the cartridge). Pretty clear-cut in my opinion. — [[User:Kianglo|KiANGLO]] [[User talk:Kianglo|TALK]] 04:19, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
::::Why, then, do TMs and Tutors disqualify a signature move, but breeding does not? I have never seen a satisfactory answer for this, nor can I imagine that one exists. It's utterly arbitrary and senseless. It'd be better to have it all-or-nothing. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 04:29, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
:::::If a move exists as a TM or Tutor move, the game is telling you that there are many Pokémon that can learn it. Like, the move is being advertised to you as something that can be "taught". It's nearly impossible to explain; you either see it or you don't. All I can say is that it would make absolutely no sense for a TM/Tutor move to be learnable by one Pokémon (barring "special" tutor moves like Dragon Ascent; which are specifically mentioned to be FOR a specific Pokémon). Yes that happened in Gen I but we are far past that now. Breeding doesn't really carry that same weight, because when a move is gained by breeding, it is "passed down" by the parent who knows the move, rather than "taught" to the Pokémon from an outside force. That's really the best way I can explain it. It makes perfect sense to me. — [[User:Kianglo|KiANGLO]] [[User talk:Kianglo|TALK]] 04:42, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
::::::Pretty much. TM and Tutor moves are taught to the Pokémon and thus aren't natural. Breeding is natural as the move is passed down. As for Electroweb, that shouldn't count as it's only for a specific generation that it would count as a signature move, at least, in my opinion. Transfers are automatically excluded because the Pokemon that are transferred aren't from that generation--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 05:36, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
:::::::I'm confused by what you mean by that. Why shouldn't Electroweb count? Many other Pokémon have a signature move in a specific generation. Then again, I'm not entirely sure what point you're trying to make, or even what you're saying about Electroweb's inclusion on this list. — [[User:Kianglo|KiANGLO]] [[User talk:Kianglo|TALK]] 05:47, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
::::::::I'm saying that a signature move should only count for the generation, not the game, i.e, it shouldn't matter if it is Joltik/Galvantula's signature move in BW/XY, if it wasn't their signature move for the whole generation, it doesn't count.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 05:52, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
:::::::::So, if that's part of the definition we're going with, how should it be applied to various pages? It looks like after this decision was made, mentions of it being the Joltik family's signature move were removed from the Electroweb page, but not from this one. Is this an accidental inconsistency or is it not? Since this is the main page for signature moves, I suppose I could see it having a slightly less strict definition and have the main table use a game-by-game basis rather than a by generation one, while having it removed from move pages if it fails to meet that requirement. Since this is such an arbitrary, unofficial thing, having it take up space on the header of a move page if there are a bunch of disclaimers is probably undesirable. Still, there are plenty of other moves aside from Electroweb scattered across all generations that don't fit the 'whole generation' criterion. Once the stance on this page vs. move pages is resolved, they could easily be sorted out.

:::::::::As for the other parts of the definition, I don't find that explanation for why egg moves don't disqualify a move from being signature to be even remotely convincing. Egg moves, TMs/HMs, and Move Tutors are all in the same boat for me — they are additional moves that can always be taught to a given species under the right conditions (right moves on parents, having the TM, having the payment/happiness criteria for tutors, etc.) in a specific game/generation. If we take signature move to mean a move exclusive to a given species/family in a specific generation with minimal influence from events and previous generations (this is what it seems to be right now), it makes no sense to exclude egg moves. For example, if someone had looked at this page and its definition, then started playing ORAS and found a bunch of Pokemon through the DexNav that knew Present despite it supposedly being exclusive to Delibird, I would not be surprised if they became confused. Maybe not the best example, but my point is, either all three of these 'additional move' categories should be included for signature move disqualification or all three should be excluded (and I much prefer the former).

:::::::::The other two categories, past-gen moves and events, are more of a gray area to me, but since (aside from Gen I/II) it isn't possible to send a later-gen Pokemon back to learn the moves in question and 'born in current generation' is officially recognized by the pentagon in Gen VI , it feels like enough of a difference to me. Excluding event moves also makes some sense to me, since they're exclusive to certain special Pokemon and not any Pokemon of that species. I'm not so sure about in-game "event" Pokemon that don't hinge on real-world things though, like the gen 2 Extreme Speed Dratini, but that has the potential to make it more confusing. Unlike the things in the first two paragraphs, I don't feel too strongly about either of these. [[User:VioletPumpkin|VioletPumpkin]] ([[User talk:VioletPumpkin|talk]]) 14:48, 15 June 2016 (UTC)
::::::::::If we counted egg moves, we would lose a LOT of signature moves here. I think the implication of egg moves versus other moves is a good enough reason, as a move only obtainable by breeding isn't something that a particular Pokémon naturally has the ability to use (i.e. if you just go out and catch one, it will never learn that move, no matter what you try), and therefore it must be specifically passed down to an offspring by the only Pokémon that can naturally learn it. For example, {{m|Octazooka}} has been consistently regarded as {{p|Octillery}}'s signature move; {{p|Horsea}} can learn it, but '''only through direct involvement with an Octillery'''. It will never learn Octazooka unless there is an Octillery involved somewhere in its lineage. A {{p|Pichu}} will never learn {{m|Present}} unless it has a {{p|Delibird}} somewhere in its "family tree".

::::::::::DexNav seems to throw a bit of a wrench into the "natural" idea with the wild egg moves thing, but that seems to just be more of a user-friendly feature so that players have a chance to gain access to egg moves that they might not be able to get otherwise, and also so players have the ability to take advantage of egg moves during story mode (since I imagine very few people take the time to chain-breed then), and perhaps even to introduce the concept to breeding novices, who might not have been dedicated enough fans/players to even know that it existed. — [[User:Kianglo|KiANGLO]] [[User talk:Kianglo|TALK]] 05:11, 17 June 2016 (UTC)
:::::::::::I think I understand where you're coming from now, and the issue seems to be one of opposing perspectives about what this whole vague term means. The people wanting to exclude egg moves seem to be coming from a sort of 'biological' position, where the point about the move 'originating' on a certain Pokemon would make perfect sense. Others, like me, view it with a position based on 'exclusivity', where the question of where it came from doesn't necessarily matter so much, so long as it's obtainable through intended game mechanics. And more still will have variations on these positions, or completely different ones, since it's not an official term (like the people arguing that it should be the 'most-famous moves of a Pokemon' years ago on this talk page). For example, I've never considered Present or Octazooka or Electroweb or any similar move to be signature because they've never been exclusive through intended (non-Sketch) mechanics, even in their introductory generations/games. Since the current staff seem to agree with the 'biological' interpretation, and there's probably not much I can do to convince them otherwise despite the contradictions that annoy me in the current definition (which I admit is ironic because every definition of this is arbitrary to some extent), I'll just say that we'll have to agree to disagree and move on. [[User:VioletPumpkin|VioletPumpkin]] ([[User talk:VioletPumpkin|talk]]) 15:59, 19 June 2016 (UTC)

== Payday and Softboiled are omitted from Gen 1? ==

I don't really know how to do anything on this site-- I just made an account because I noticed this page does not list either "Payday" for Meowth in Gen 1, OR "Softboiled" for Chansey, when both of those moves were in the game. In fact, other than battling the Elite 4 over and over, Payday was one of the few ways to keep your ever-slimming wallet from drying up in Red and Blue, and it was this for this reason that I was rather disappointed by the lack of wild Meowth in Yellow version (however, Jesse/James' Meowth DO use Payday against you throughout the game.) As for Softboiled, you receive it via TM from a man in... I want to say Saffron City(?)... after you learn Surf and use it to get to his house in Yellow. Yes, it's a TM, but in Gen 1, Chansey was the ONLY pokemon who was actually able to learn the move from the TM. When you get it, the man even says to you "there's only one pokemon who can learn this technique!" (aside from Mew, obviously, but I assume Mew is a general exception in this thread...)

[[User:GenericCola|GenericCola]] ([[User talk:GenericCola|talk]]) 05:44, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
:No, actually, Mew isn't considered an exception. Mew learning Softboiled disqualifies it as Chansey's signature move. And {{m|Pay Day}} could be learned by nearly 20 Pokemon by TM, not just Meowth. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 05:49, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

== official name ==

maybe the official name of signatures moves is "[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFWLoyZESAc&t=19s Unique Move]"? --[[User:Valepert|Valepert]] ([[User talk:Valepert|talk]]) 17:46, 18 August 2016 (UTC)

== Clanging scales ==

Why isn't it listed here as kommo-o's signature movies. It says its it's signature move on the bulbpedia page for Clanging scales but not on this page. It even says on the website that "Clanging Scales is a move that only Kommo-o can learn. It scrapes the scales covering its body against one another, attacking with a great clamor. After using this move, Kommo-o’s Defense is lowered." The fact that only kommo-o can learn it means its a signature move [[User:Storm1051787|Storm1051787]] ([[User talk:Storm1051787|talk]]) 20:25, 2 November 2016 (UTC)

== Nature's Madness (Tapu) ==

The page for Nature's Madness notes that the move is the signature move of the guardian deities. Even though the Tapu's are not related by evolutionary line (that we know of), shouldn't this move allowed as the Tapu's are clearly related in a different sense? [[User:Kungfuyu|Kungfuyu]] ([[User talk:Kungfuyu|talk]]) 20:42, 9 January 2017 (UTC)
:If Sacred Sword counted for the Swords of Justice in Gen V, I see no reason why Nature's Madness and Guardian of Alola shouldn't count for the tapu. I added them to the page. -- [[User:Umbee|Umbee]] ([[User talk:Umbee|talk]]) 22:33, 11 January 2017 (UTC)
::Looks like Sacred Sword and Fusion Flare/Bolt are mentioned especially in the section "Moves commonly associated with certain Pokémon". Nature's Madness and Guardian of Alola would qualify for another bullet point. But maybe this is a good opportunity to redefine what 'Signature Move' means so that it's not just for evolutionary lines but include established Pokemon groups like the guardian deities [[User:Kungfuyu|Kungfuyu]] ([[User talk:Kungfuyu|talk]]) 00:21, 12 January 2017 (UTC)

== Feather dance and Gust ==

According to this article, the aforementioned moves were pidgey/pidgetto/Pidgeot signature moves in generations 1 and 3 respectivly. However, according to the articles, butterfree learns gust in pokemon yellow and farfeched can learn featherdance in gen 3 by breeding. [[User:RubyLeafGreenCrystal|RubyLeafGreenCrystal]] ([[User talk:RubyLeafGreenCrystal|talk]]) 22:46, 11 January 2017 (UTC)
:For Gust, hover over the * tooltip. You'll see it clearly says "Prior to Pokémon Yellow." As for Feather Dance, the first paragraph of the article clearly states that availability via breeding or events doesn't count against signature status. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 00:19, 12 January 2017 (UTC)

== Water Shuriken ==
Obviously Water Shuriken was originally Greninja's signature move until ORAS where Accelgor also learned it. However is it worth adding it to the "often associated with" section, with how often Greninja uses the move? Not only was it a previous signature, Ash-Greninja's Battle Bond ability powers the move up and changes the amount of times it hits. Ash-Greinja has a larger one on it's back, both forms often used it in the anime, and Greninja's Pokedex entries describe the move as well. [[User:TrainerSplash|TrainerSplash]] ([[User talk:TrainerSplash|talk]]) 15:47, 8 February 2017 (UTC)

== Frustration, return, steel wing, flash, avalanche ==

Is there a reason they aren't listed in the "exclusive by level up" section when only one evolution family learned them by level up at some point? [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 22:46, 16 September 2017 (UTC)

== I need some help please==
I tried to edit the page to make it say that Throat Chop was Incineroar's signature move until USUM, but the edit affected Darkest Lariat instead. Can somebody please help? [[User:Crummymummy|Crummymummy]] ([[User talk:Crummymummy|talk]]) 17:01, 4 January 2018 (UTC)
:I went ahead and switched the order of the two moves so that Throat Chop is in the slot that gets the asterisked note. I'm not sure if it's possible to do it otherwise, so that the asterisk would be on the second move slot. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 22:24, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

==Prismatic Laser==
Can someone add Prismatic Laser for Dusk Mane/Dawn Wings Necrozma? It can be learned by both forms and Photon Geyser, its other signature move, is included with them. I just don't know how to do it. Thanks [[User:The IceCream|The IceCream]] ([[User talk:The IceCream|talk]]) 09:31, 1 March 2018 (UTC)
:Got it. [[User:Lanthanum|Lanthanum]] ([[User talk:Lanthanum|talk]]) 10:07, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

== Why is Pay Day not considered "signature" for Persian? ==

Pay Day is learned by Meowth, which evolves into Persian. This same logic is used for Pikachu and Raichu with Volt Tackle, so I don't understand why it doesn't apply to Persian too. I understand that since Gen 4 Persian doesn't itself learn Pay Day, but Pikachu and Raichu don't by themselves learn Volt Tackle either.

The same question could be asked about:

Shellder/Cloyster and Clamp (Gen 2), Icicle Spear (Gens 3-4)

Staryu/Starmie and Camouflage (Gen 3)

Magikarp/Gyarados and Splash (Gen 1)

Porygon/Porygon2 and Sharpen (Gen 2)

Misdreavus/Mismagius and Pain Split (Gen 4)

Nuzleaf/Shiftry and Extrasensory (Gen 3)

Slakoth/Vigoroth and Slack Off (Gen 3)

Skitty/Delcatty and Assist (Gen 3)

Along with others I've probably missed.

Can someone please fill me in on the logic here? If the answer is "because they can't learn it themselves," then Pikachu and Raichu should have Volt Tackle removed, along with more than a few other Pokémon. [[User:Mjswdr|Mjswdr]] ([[User talk:Mjswdr|talk]]) 23:27, 16 September 2018 (UTC)
: The thing is though, Volt Tackle in itself is a specifically unique move in that it is a move only taught via breeding. As opposed to all the ones you listed where they are level up moves specifically learned by that Pokemon, breeding moves are learned by Pokemon families as opposed to their individual evolutions. --[[User:Spriteit|Spriteit]] ([[User talk:Spriteit|talk]]) 00:06, 17 September 2018 (UTC)

== Template Change ==

This table doesn't show every Signature of parter Eevee.--'''[[User:Team Rocket Grunt|Rocket Grunt]] ([[User talk:Team Rocket Grunt|Report To Me]])''' 14:35, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

== Table problems ==

I tried to add the Generation VIII signature moves, but when I opened the preview, the eighth column was still blank. There might be something wrong with the table code, but I can't find anything. --[[User:Kahran042|Kahran042]] ([[User talk:Kahran042|talk]]) 18:32, 9 December 2019 (UTC)
:I've edited [[Template:SignatureMove]] as needed, please try again now. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 19:02, 9 December 2019 (UTC)
::It worked! Thanks! --[[User:Kahran042|Kahran042]] ([[User talk:Kahran042|talk]]) 19:39, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

== Should we add Bolt Beak & Fishious Rend too? ==

I mean, Zekrom & Kyurem both have Fusion Bolt in the list, and these moves are exclusive to the very similar fossil Pokémon. Should we add Bolt Beak & Fishious Rend? [[User:Unowninator|¿¡Unowninator?!]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 22:54, 9 December 2019 (UTC)
:Still waiting for a response. Not sure what to do... [[User:Unowninator|¿¡Unowninator?!]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 23:34, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

== Dexit ==

Since this seems to be going on in multiple pages, I'll leave this here: I do not agree with some moves (such as Night Daze and Parabolic Charge) now being considered signature moves just because most of the Pokémon that learned them are now zapped. I mean, that would be like saying that the Deino and Litwick lines have unique type combinations in Gen VIII. I guess it's mainly a thing of there not being satisfactory evidence that the other Pokémon now can't learn the moves, making the "only one Pokémon or evolutionary line" seem sketchy. [[User:Mr. Daikon|Mr. Daikon]] ([[User talk:Mr. Daikon|talk]]) 19:14, 16 December 2019 (UTC)
* You make a good point, but it should probably be at least be mentioned that they're the only ones who can use those in Sword and Shield. Maybe a separate table? --[[User:Kahran042|Kahran042]] ([[User talk:Kahran042|talk]]) 10:25, 17 December 2019 (UTC)

== Can TM moves be signature? ==

If only one pokemon learns a move through level up in a generation where that move is also a tm, is it still a sig move? [[User:Pallukun|Pallukun]] ([[User talk:Pallukun|talk]]) 11:15, 19 December 2019 (UTC)
:No, that does not count. However, we do document those cases in the [[Signature move#Similar examples|Similar examples]] section of the page. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 12:42, 19 December 2019 (UTC)

== One game signature ==

Why were some signatures deleted? I mean the ones that were intruduced at the beginning of the generation but lasted shoret than one?--'''[[User:Team Rocket Grunt|Rocket Grunt]] ([[User talk:Team Rocket Grunt|Report To Me]])''' 15:36, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
:I removed them because they weren't a signature move for a full generation. If you want to document "one-off"/"temporary" signature moves, then that can be placed elsewhere, but not in the main template.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 11:49, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
::Since Pokemon's movesets are constantly changed within one generation, that means signatures are independent from them.--'''[[User:Team Rocket Grunt|Rocket Grunt]] ([[User talk:Team Rocket Grunt|Report To Me]])''' 18:59, 24 May 2020 (UTC)

== Inconsistency between main section and teachable signatures ==

I've noticed that, for the purposes of the main section, signature moves that are only unique to a certain Pokemon for one game during a gen, are not counted. For example, Water Shuriken Greninja and the other Kalos starters, whose signature moves were distributed to other mons in ORAS. I understand that, although this may seem unintuitive in some ways, for now it seems like people want to keep it this way.

However, this rule does not seem to apply currently to the "teachable" section. For example, many Pokemon are listed from LGPE where those moves are only unique to them in the context of LGPE, but are otherwise learned by many other Pokemon in the other Gen 7 games. The exception to this would be the Meowth/Persian line, where Pay Day is still unique to them, but otherwise all of the rest are not "true" signatures under the criteria applied to the main section. There are also other examples from other gens, such as Quash Murkrow/Honchkrow in Gen 6, when it can be learned by Sableye in ORAS, Snarl Yveltal in the same gen, Double Team Scyther in Gen 1, etc.

I'm basically asking, should this be cleaned up so that it's consistent with the main section? It would also make the purpose of the specific gen flairs more clear, since it would almost always imply that the move is only teachable via tutor or TM in a specific game, instead of possibly implying that the move is only unique to the Pokemon in that game.

--[[User:Tangela13|Tangela13]] ([[User talk:Tangela13|talk]]) 22:02, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

:Every move that was a signature for shorter period of time than whole generation was once deleted by ForceFire out of whim and he forbid to bring them back without any explenation or consistency with rest of the page and other pages that mention them being singature. I really would like us to have a well defined term of signature move.--'''[[User:Team Rocket Grunt|Rocket Grunt]] ([[User talk:Team Rocket Grunt|Report To Me]])''' 10:13, 27 June 2020 (UTC)
::I think I agree with ForceFire that only full generations should count, or at least not LGPE, since it's just a small subset of Pokémon, and to me, signature moves means more than just "was the only evolution line in <game> to know <move>" trivia. Maybe ForceFire wants to outline his reasoning further, but I'm pretty sure that he wouldn't forbid discussion about it.
::Tangela, your idea makes sense to me. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 10:39, 27 June 2020 (UTC)
:::I moved the entire section to its appropriate section as per SnorlaxMonster's suggestion above. TM/HMs immediately do not make moves signature moves, since Pokémon outside of the Pokémon and/or its evolutionary line can learn the move. Which is the first rule of a signature move. A move that can only be learned by either one Pokémon or an entire evolutionary line. I get that the definition can be a bit confusing and difficult to follow when there's no hard written rule about it. But that generally covers the gist of it.
:::As for the consistency, every single section should follow the same rule. There should not be any exemptions. So anything that should not be there should be removed.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 12:44, 27 June 2020 (UTC)
::::Okay, I will remove the teachable signatures that can be learned naturally by other Pokemon in the same gen.
::::However ForceFire, I think that Rocket Grunt's complaint was regarding signature moves that have been removed because they are only unique to a mon for a specific game during the gen (like Water Shuriken Greninja for example), they were not complaining about the fact that TMs/tutors disqualify moves from being signature.
::::Also, about your definition of signature moves: "TM/HMs immediately do not make moves signature moves, since Pokémon outside of the Pokémon and/or its evolutionary line can learn the move." Would this not also disqualify moves that are learned as egg moves by other Pokemon? I understand egg moves have never been counted here, and it would maybe be a bit weird to say, for example, that Octazooka is not the signature move of Octillery because it can also be bred onto other mons. But currently there is no way to determine from this list whether a move is unique to a mon in the strictest sense, where it cannot be bred onto other mons, so it might be something to consider. --[[User:Tangela13|Tangela13]] ([[User talk:Tangela13|talk]]) 18:59, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

== mid-generation spreading ==

you should list pokemon that had signature moves until later games in the generation why don't you? [[User:Wild Starfish|Wild Starfish]] ([[User talk:Wild Starfish|talk]]) 18:30, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
:There were such cases presented, but one admin deleted them. I personally don't know why moves have to last as a signature for a whole generation to be here. --'''[[User:Team Rocket Grunt|Rocket Grunt]] ([[User talk:Team Rocket Grunt|Report To Me]])''' 18:50, 17 August 2020 (UTC)It feels like an artificial rule

== Lugia has Psycho Boost as a "Signature Move" ==

It has been brought to my attention that Lugia is listed as having Psycho Boost as a signature move. What is the reasoning behind this? As far as I understand, Lugia cannot obtain Psycho Boost in gen VIII nor is Psycho Boost even usable. Was there any specific reasoning that this has happened? [[User:CoolMan6001|CoolMan6001]] ([[User talk:CoolMan6001|talk]]) 04:16, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
:[[XD]] [[User:Unowninator|¿¡Unowninator?!]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 04:57, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
::XD however, is not a gen VIII game, and shouldn't be counted as one in this list. [[User:CoolMan6001|CoolMan6001]] ([[User talk:CoolMan6001|talk]]) 13:42, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
:::It's the same thing as Heart Swap: there's a way to bring the move in (though Magearna is more straight forward as it's a level-up move from recent games), but the move isn't usable so it's not counted at all. [[User:Eridanus|Eridanus]] ([[User talk:Eridanus|talk]]) 13:49, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
::::There are some other cases like this, such as Xurkitree and Tail Glow, and Ribombee and Powder. But yeah, I feel like for a move to be listed as a signature move, it has to be usable. --[[User:AmbientDinosaur|AmbientDinosaur]] ([[User talk:AmbientDinosaur|talk]]) 15:49, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
Have we reached an agreement here that it is safe to remove Psycho Boost from the listing for Lugia yet? Or should we discuss this further? [[User:CoolMan6001|CoolMan6001]] ([[User talk:CoolMan6001|talk]]) 03:52, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
:Well, Deoxys isn't in Sword & Shield, so I think it should stay. [[User:Unowninator|¿¡Unowninator?!]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 05:28, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
::This really goes into the debate of signature moves by technicality. In this *particular* instance Lugia cannot learn the move naturally by any means, let alone any event, and it can only be transferred from an old Lugia from generations past. Also, in this case I do not think it should be applied as a signature move because Psycho Boost is essentially soft-snapped: even though Lugia *could* have the move through transfer it cannot actually *use* the move. Since the move is rendered unusable in the game data as it stands, it should not be listed in my opinion since it is a "soft-deleted" move like Powder or Tail Glow in that the move itself cannot be used.[[User:ScraftyIsTheBest|ScraftyIsTheBest]] ([[User talk:ScraftyIsTheBest|talk]]) 06:51, 18 November 2020 (UTC)

== Defining "Signature Moves" ==

Yes, I have looked above and seen the different arguments for what constitutes as a signature move, but I'm not looking to change what it's defined as in this article. From what I've seen in the chart we currently have, a Pokemon's signature move is one that ''only it can learn through levelup'' in a particular generation or game. For example, look at Shellder's signature moves. In Generation I, both Shellder and Cloyster can learn Clamp by levelup, so it is listed as both of their signature moves. However in Generation II, Cloyster does not learn Clamp by levelup, and so it isn't listed there. Shellder still learns it by levelup, and therefore it is listed. Generation III, FRLG, Shellder is the only Pokemon to learn Icicle Spear by levelup, and so it is listed with a FRLG note next to it. HOWEVER, other Pokemon still learn Icicle Spear, but not by levelup. Generation IV, it is still listed as Shellder's signature move, as it is the only Pokemon to learn it by levelup still. Generation V, the Vanillite line learns Icicle Spear at level 1, so it is no longer listed as Shellder's signature move.

Looking closer to the top of the chart, you van see Volt Tackle for the Pikachu family. No Pokemon learns Volt Tackle by levelup, and only Pichu by Light Ball and Pikachu by events get it, but it is counted as that evolution line's signature move. This makes sense, only this family can have this move, outside of Smeargle with Sketch. But since it isn't learned by levelup, does it make sense to have it?

Herein lies the problem with the article; There is more than one idea for what makes a move signature. Is it a move that only one Pokemon or family learns by leveling up, like Shellder and Icicle Spear? Is it a move that only one family can have outside of Smeargle, like the Pikachu family and Volt Tackle? Or is it a move that most people know a Pokemon for, such as Magikarp and Splash?

Personally, I believe a signature move is one that only one Pokemon or family can have. Moves like Confide don't make sense to me as signature moves, since more than one Pokemon family have it, even though only the Impidimp family learns it by levelup (or even by any means) in Generation VIII, as Pokemon can be transferred in that know the move Confide; as such it isn't signature. While this would cut down on a significant amount of Pokemon having signature moves, it feels like the cleanest and easiest to explain, at least to me.

Maybe as a separate list we could have moves that only a certain Pokemon can learn by levelup? [[User:Found then Lost|Found then Lost]] ([[User talk:Found then Lost|talk]]) 19:00, 2 January 2021 (UTC)Found then Lost

Honestly, I've been thinking the same. "Signature move" makes it sound like a move the Pokemon is often associated with. The page should be renamed to "exclusive move" which would better fit in line with what the page is describing, and that way stuff like Impidimp learning Confide can remain listed. There's much hoops to go into it, but usage of the words mean different things. Charizard is often associated with Flamethrower and is almost always seen being used on every Charizard, just like how Blastoise is with Hydro Pump and how Pikachu is with Thunderbolt. And with how quickly a move goes from exclusive in one game to the next (such Water Shuriken being exclusive in XY to available on other Pokemon in ORAS) the term "signature" doesn't make sense for this page. Its even more problematic for moves like Water Shuriken, where even after being given to Accelgor, in ORAS it is still commonly associated with Greninja the following game with not only Greninja's base form but with Ash-Greninja specifically. There is a section on the page that describes to associations, but its not a very well put together list. I'd suggest to rename this "Exclusive moves" and make a new list page with Pokemon being associated with certain moves that have explain each individual case such as "common occurrence and usage in the anime" [[User:TrainerSplash|TrainerSplash]] ([[User talk:TrainerSplash|talk]]) 05:07, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

== Blast Burn/Frenzy Plant/Hydro Cannon vs Psycho Boost ==

Isn't the criteria for gen 3 Elemental Hyper Beams and Psycho Boost a bit inconsistent? The elemental Hyper Beams are considered one-off signature moves for the Kanto starters due to the Johto starters also getting them via XD - however, Psycho Boost is listed as a normalm signature move for Deoxys on gen 3 despite Lugia getting it on the same game as the Johto started get those moves. Wouldn't it make more sense to either remove Psycho Boost from gen 3 or (the one I think makes more sense) add the 3 to the Kanto starters since, on mainline games, they are the only ones who could get it? [[User:Ropalme1914|Ropalme1914]] ([[User talk:Ropalme1914|talk]]) 04:03, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
:If only one Pokémon learns a move by level-up, TMs/HMs, and Move Tutors, other Pokémon learning the same move as an Egg Move, special move, or event move does not affect its status a signature move. Since Lugia only learns Psycho Boost as a special move, Lugia has no impact on its status as Deoxys's signature move. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 09:11, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
::Then why did ForceFire delete Psychoo Boost from Deoxys' signature in generation 3?--'''[[User:Team Rocket Grunt|Rocket]] [[User talk:Team Rocket Grunt|Grunt]]''' 16:37, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
:Yeah, which is the case for the elemental Hyper Beams: only Charizard, Venusaur, and Blastoise get their respective type move via move tutor on gen 3, no one else. If they weren't listed due to the Johto starters on XD, then neither should Psycho Boost, and vice-versa. We should either include both or none, not only one of them. [[User:Ropalme1914|Ropalme1914]] ([[User talk:Ropalme1914|talk]]) 02:30, 2 November 2021 (UTC)
::I know I may be too late with this, but I agree that the elemental Hyper Beams and Psycho Boost should be listed. --'''''[[User:Bfdifan2006|Bfdifan2006]]'''''[[User talk:Bfdifan2006|something to say?]] · [[Special:Contributions/Bfdifan2006|My work documentation]] 21:28, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

== sudowoodo is listed as having mimic as its signature move, but really shouldn't be ==

a pokémon other than sudowoodo can know mimic in gen 2 if transferred from gen 1. calling mimic sudowoodo's signature move is like calling cut kartana's signature move. [[User:Pikachu210|Pikachu210]] ([[User talk:Pikachu210|talk]]) 07:53, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
:This page ignores Pokemon that learn moves by TM/HM/TR or by Breeding because they don't learn them naturally.--'''[[User:Team Rocket Grunt|Rocket]] [[User talk:Team Rocket Grunt|Grunt]]''' 12:09, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
::how is breeding not natural? also, kartana is the only pokémon to learn cut naturally in smusum. [[User:Pikachu210|Pikachu210]] ([[User talk:Pikachu210|talk]]) 03:54, 17 December 2021 (UTC)
:::Transferring a Pokemon that knows Mimic in Gen I to Gen II is not the same as catching that same Pokemon in Gen II and thinking it can learn Mimic. Transfer moves are ignored as it just goes without saying that Pokemon can know signature moves of certain Pokemon if you transfer it into a certain generation. Kartana didn't have Cut as its signature move for the entire generation, that's why it's not listed.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 04:53, 17 December 2021 (UTC)

== Most signature moves ==

This award goes to the Partner {{p|Eevee}} in Let's Go with 9 (one for each Eeveelution plus Veevee Volley). - ''totally signed comment from [[User:Kirbychu Showdown|Kirbychu Showdown]] ([[User talk:Kirbychu Showdown|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Kirbych_Showdown|contribs]])'' 14:29, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

== BDSP Signature Moves? ==

So, I'm curious - are moves like Dragon Hammer and Mystical Fire considered Signature Moves in BDSP? Only Tropius can learn Dragon Hammer and only Mismagius can learn Mystical Fire, for instance. I'm not sure if there's others, but I assume there are. [[User:Myzou|Myzou]] ([[User talk:Myzou|talk]]) 04:00, 30 December 2021 (UTC)
:If they didn't have it for the whole generation, then it's not a signature move.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 06:16, 30 December 2021 (UTC)
::There are a good few more exclusive moves in BDSP than those two, though. All the ones I could find for moves introduced after Gen IV are:
::Snorunt line: Frost Breath
::Pinsir: Storm Throw
::Lunatone: Magic Room
::Vespiquen: Aromatic Mist
::Chatot: Confide, Parting Shot
::Mismagius: Mystical Fire
::Wailord: Noble Roar
::Cacturne: Spiky Shield
::Tropius: Dragon Hammer
::Rapidash: Smart Strike

::Do any or all of these warrant mention in an article? --[[User:OnyxaAstra|OnyxaAstra]] ([[User talk:OnyxaAstra|talk]]) 22:30, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

:::I think that if the game cannot connect to the others of the same generation, then the move should be considered a signature move in that game only. A good example is Ekans and Arbok being the only Pokémon in LGPE to get Glare. --'''''[[User:Bfdifan2006|Bfdifan2006!]]''''' [[User talk:Bfdifan2006|Or is he actually]] [[Special:Contributions/Bfdifan2006|Keyacom?]] 22:34, 1 March 2022 (UTC)
::::The difference between those moves and Heart Swap/Hidden Power is that no Pokemon can learn the latter in SwSh, so they become Signature moves once Manaphy and Unown learn them in BDSP. Smart Strike is listed as a teachable signature move in it's appropriate section. It doesn't matter if a game can't connect to each other in a given generation, there's no need to get complicated.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 07:07, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

== "Only known Pokémon" ==

Several Pokémon species' biology sections include a sentence along the lines of "This Pokémon is the only known Pokémon capable of '''learning''' X move". However, some pages say "This Pokémon is the only known Pokémon capable of '''using''' X move", instead. Could we settle on a particular phrasing for consistency? I'm partial to the inital example I gave that uses the word "'''learning'''", although both seem to be used with near-equal frequency. [[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']] 06:22, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
:Additionally, there is inconsistency between the phrase ending with "the only known Pokémon capable of learning '''the move''' X" and "the only known Pokémon capable of learning X". Most pages seem to include "'''the move'''", so I'd also like to include it on the other pages for consistency. [[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']] 06:29, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
::I'd say go with what a majority of articles use as the wording. And, imo, "learning ''the move'' X" sounds a bit cleaner, if that makes sense.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 07:29, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
:::I agree. As for my first point, "learning" and "using" are used almost interchangeably, with "learning" being used in 63 articles, and "using" being used in 64, though I personally prefer the former. [[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']] 07:43, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
::::"Learning" makes more sense, other Pokemon can "use" a signature move via Metronome, Sketch, etc..--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 07:52, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
:::::Makes sense to me! [[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']] 07:52, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

== "True signature move" ==

'''"Since [[Generation II]], the only true signature moves are {{p|Smeargle|Smeargle's}} {{m|Sketch}}, as it can copy almost any move, and {{p|Chatot|Chatot's}} {{m|Chatter}}, as it is the only signature move that cannot be sketched. However, since Sketch cannot be used in Sword and Shield, many moves introduced in that game are also true signature moves."'''

I feel like this could be rewritten. As it is currently written, it essentially says "Sketch and Chatter are the only true signature moves... except for all of those new signature moves in SWSH" which just seems a bit clumsy. I also feel like it could be a bit more detailed in its explanation. Here's a version I came up with, but I'm open to criticism or other ideas:

'''"Very few moves can be considered true signature moves due to the nature of {{p|Smeargle|Smeargle's}} {{m|Sketch}}, introduced in [[Generation II]], which can copy almost any move. Sketch itself can be considered a true signature move since it can only be learned by Smeargle and only other Smeargle can copy it. {{p|Chatot|Chatot's}} {{m|Chatter}}, introduced in [[Generation IV]], being the only signature move that cannot be sketched, can also be considered a true signature move. In Sword and Shield, Sketch cannot be used, making many signature moves introduced in those games true signature moves as well, as of [[Generation VIII]]."'''

Let me know what y'all think. [[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']] 06:44, 17 June 2022 (UTC)
:You're missing generation I where Sketch wasn't introduced yet, and Bulbapedia's contrived definition of signature moves (that it has to be signature for whole generation to count) makes it difficult in generation VIII because in some games Smeargle exists and in some it doesn't.--'''[[User:Team Rocket Grunt|Rocket]] [[User talk:Team Rocket Grunt|Grunt]]''' 12:05, 17 June 2022 (UTC)

'''"Since Generation II, very few moves can be considered true signature moves due to the nature of {{p|Smeargle|Smeargle's}} {{m|Sketch}}, which can copy almost any move. Sketch itself can be considered a true signature move since it can only be learned by Smeargle and only other Smeargle can copy it. {{p|Chatot|Chatot's}} {{m|Chatter}}, introduced in [[Generation IV]], being the only signature move that cannot be sketched, can also be considered a true signature move. In Sword, Shield, and Legends: Arceus, Sketch cannot be used, making many signature moves introduced in those games true signature moves as well, as of [[Generation VIII]].'''

::Added back in "since Generation II". As for Generation VIII, new signature moves introduced in SWSH and PLA are not available in BDSP, so most if not all of them would still be considered true signature moves by Bulbapedia's definition. However, I wouldn't mind removing the trivia point in its entirety since it's become muddied so much. Either way, I would like to hear some more opinions. [[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']] 06:50, 20 June 2022 (UTC)
:::I think that rewording is fine. Though it's probably worth removing if Gen IX continues to not have all moves (including Sketch), otherwise it'll just become unclear and complex.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 07:06, 20 June 2022 (UTC)
::::That makes sense. Thank you! [[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']] 07:11, 20 June 2022 (UTC)
:::::I know we said we'd wait to see how Gen IX handles this, but as I'm looking at it, because of Gen VIII, there are actually a LOT of moves that can be considered true signature moves, not "very few". I'm thinking maybe we just go ahead and axe the trivium now? I feel like it's already become far too contrived. If we do decide to keep it a little while longer, at the very least I think the wording should be updated, since the use of the words "very few" is just not accurate at this point. [[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']] 06:41, 29 July 2022 (UTC)
::::::We can't get rid of it. It's a crutial fact regarding signature moves. I shortened it a bit and added additional two cases.--'''[[User:Team Rocket Grunt|Rocket]] [[User talk:Team Rocket Grunt|Grunt]]''' 11:34, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

==Paradox Pokémon==
Should Paradox Pokémon be allowed to share signature moves with their modern-day counterparts, like {{m|Present}}? [[User:PinkYoshiGaming|PinkYoshiGaming]] ([[User talk:PinkYoshiGaming|talk]]) 04:31, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
:Sine they're technically classified as separate Pokemon, probably not.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 04:58, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

== Volt Tackle? ==

Why is not listed in generation IX has the signature move of the Pikachu evolutionary line, and has far has I see there is no other line or Pokemon that uses the move, and the move is still available in Pokemon Scarlet and Violet.--[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 19:15, 4 December 2022 (UTC)

Talk:Legendary Pokémon/Archive3

2022-12-04T18:53:35Z

Neos: /* The legendary treasures of Ruin */ new section

[[Talk:Legendary Pokémon/Archive1|Archive #1]] 
[[Talk:Legendary Pokémon/Archive2|Archive #2]]

== Separating Mythical and Legendary Pokémon ==

The matter of separating the articles of Legendary and Mythical Pokémon is in discussion because of Generation VI's newly introduced disambiguation of the term ''Mythical Pokémon''. I have started a [[User:Ash Pokemaster/Mythical Pokémon|short draft]] that anyone should feel free to expand. Meanwhile, in response to [[User:Bwburke94|Bwburke94]] ([[User talk:Bwburke94|talk]]) [[Talk:Legendary_Pok%C3%A9mon/Archive2#Separation|15:18, 5 May 2015 (UTC)]]:
:A better phrasing might be "a related group of Pokémon related to Legendary Pokémon", but I'm being conservative for the time being. I haven't found evidence supporting that ''Mythical Pokémon'' are indeed ''Legendary'' (as far as Japanese media are concerned), and the fact that [http://www.pokemonconquest.com/en-us/outline/densetsu recent] text refers to all of them collectively as "Legendary and Mythical Pokémon" makes me think they aren't. Mythical Pokémon as an English term may be relatively recent, but 幻のポケモン has always been a thing -- it has been in use on and off since 1998 (potentially even earlier, in Mew ads from 1996). It started catching on (that is to say, being used more commonly) around [http://www.pokemon-movie.jp/history/ 2007] or 2008. Prior to that, reference to Mythical Pokémon has been generally informal, with several other terms like [https://web.archive.org/web/20040404003246/http://www.pokemon.co.jp/game/deoxys/index.html 特別なポケモン] (''Tokubetsuna Pokémon'', probably a parallel to ''Event Pokémon'') seen in official media. Ever since Gen 5, it has been in use unambiguously. You can even find a formal definition of 幻のポケモン in Pokescrap's [http://www.pokemon.co.jp/ex/pokescrap2014/pokemon/ page].

:As of today (arguably since [[Talk:Legendary_Pok%C3%A9mon/Archive2#Mythical_and_Legendary_classification_with_sources|Gen 5]]) the same holds for ''Mythical'', as there is no reference of Mythical Pokémon being Legendary anywhere, as far as I know. Even cases like Deoxys, where 幻のポケモン was originally mistranslated as ''Legendary Pokémon'', are now properly classified. The assumption that Mythical Pokémon are Legendary is natural, and the western community especially is accustomed to the convention for most of the franchise's life, with the proper term coined years after its Japanese counterpart (granted, the term ''Rare Pokémon'' was once being used in places like Pokémon Ranger and [http://bulbanews.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Pokemon.com_officially_reveals_Shaymin announcements]), but I have to ask: what's the point of including Mythical Pokémon in the Legendary Pokémon page when they aren't officially referred to as ''Legendary Pokémon''? Saving clicks? Is an encyclopedia's mission to pander to the community's fondness of obsolete terminology, or is it to be accurate and in-line with the series' current conventions and lore? [[User:Ash Pokemaster|Ash Pokemaster]] ([[User talk:Ash Pokemaster|talk]]) 17:41, 5 May 2015 (UTC)
::Bulbapedia's mission is not necessarily to be official, it's to be an informative English-language Pokémon encyclopedia, which happens to be a mission that involves official sources. Since we're just going in circles ''again'', let me just point out that when the community searches for "Legendary Pokémon", they expect to find info on Mew, Celebi, Jirachi, et cetera in addition to those normally obtainable within their debut generation. Splitting the page would also have the effect of splitting Mew and Keldeo from their respective legendary "families", to the detriment of the wiki. In addition, my position since the start of English-language Gen V has been that mythicals are a subset of legendaries, and as I pointed out last time we talked about this, North American ''Super Smash Bros. for Wii U'' backs me up, while you have not cited an English-language source in your argument. [[User:Bwburke94|Bwburke94]] ([[User talk:Bwburke94|talk]]) 06:50, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
:::I suppose that we principally disagree on whether Bulbapedia's coverage should be based strictly on canonical sources (which exclude contradicting English-language sources which commonly include mistranslations, although this may also be a matter of argument) or be more in-line with fans' expectations. I will admit I have no source that downright states "Mythical Pokémon are not a subset of Legendary Pokémon", but what's the point of the "Legendary and Mythical Pokémon" statement if the latter aren't a separate group? It would be a redundancy. Your NA Smash Bros. argument only augments my point, if only because the difference between the European and the NA version simply proves that there's an existing ambiguity that the more careful sources (ie. the ones that don't spell Onix as "Onyx") take under consideration. Besides, why should it be taken under consideration over the European translation? What makes it inherently more valid?
:::I will agree that this is most likely going to go in circles. It would be better to let other people weigh in. --[[User:Ash Pokemaster|Ash Pokemaster]] ([[User talk:Ash Pokemaster|talk]]) 07:37, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
::::People expecting to find Mythical Pokémon when coming to this page can be solved with a hatnote and in-article prose. However, we should be using official definitions whereever possible. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 09:38, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
::SnorlaxMonster and Ash Pokemaster, I get what you're implying, and I see your reasoning, but do you actually have a source that ''directly'' states mythicals are not legendaries? [[User:Bwburke94|Bwburke94]] ([[User talk:Bwburke94|talk]]) 11:37, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
:::Yes, there is an official source that explicitly shows they're separate groups that don't overlap: Corocoro. In either October or November 2014 - can't remember which - Corocoro promised that '''every''' Legendary Pokémon would be available for capture in ORAS. Come the games' release, we saw that this didn't include Mythical Pokémon. [[User:EpicDeino|EpicDeino]] ([[User talk:EpicDeino|talk]]) 23:41, 9 June 2015 (UTC)
::::Corocoro is a Japanese source, and the debate is over the English terminology. However, both the US and UK official ORAS sites made the same claim, albeit with different wording, stating that "between XYORAS, all Legendary Pokémon will be ''obtainable''". [[User:Bwburke94|Bwburke94]] ([[User talk:Bwburke94|talk]]) 07:57, 11 June 2015 (UTC)
:::::No, the debate is ''not'' on the English terminology, but on the ''group to which it refers.'' They're still called Legendary and Mythical whether Bulbapedia says Mythical is a subset or a separate group. In fact, ''the page has actually called Mythical by the same name under both circumstances in the past.'' that ''isn't'' being debated right now. What is being debated is whether Mythical Pokémon, [http://www.pokepedia.fr/Pokémon_fabuleux a group which exists in other languages as well and is NOT exclusive to the English language], is separate from Legendary. This has absolutely nothing to do with the name of the group when the group itself is the same in the other languages - the idea of things having different names in different languages applies to basically everything else in Pokémon as well, and doesn't prevent foreign language sources from being used as evidence when the subject itself remains identical. [[User:EpicDeino|EpicDeino]] ([[User talk:EpicDeino|talk]]) 03:41, 14 June 2015 (UTC)
::::::The debate is on the group to which it refers ''in English'', so this is indeed over English terminology. [[User:Bwburke94|Bwburke94]] ([[User talk:Bwburke94|talk]]) 11:28, 14 June 2015 (UTC)
:::::::Sorry, but... I don't understand what you mean? As I JUST explained, the group exists in every language. The group, which is consistent throughout every language, is ''referred to in English'' as Mythical, but ''still exists, albeit by various other names,'' in other languages - like ''everything else in the series,'' actually. I even provided a link to the French encyclopædia Pokémonis as proof of the group's existence in other languages. The name has absolutely nothing to do with what we're talking about. By your logic, no Japanese source could be used for anything that has a different name in English. To reiterate from my previous post: '''we aren't debating the name of the group.''' We're debating whether or not said group, ''which exists in every language,'' albeit with a different name ''because it is translated like everything else in the series,'' is separate from Legendary, another group ''which exists in every language,'' again with different names ''because it is translated like everything else in the series.'' Please, explain ''why'' having a different name would prevent a group that is otherwise ''completely consistent between languages'' from being considered the same thing when everything else in the series is in the same situation. [[User:EpicDeino|EpicDeino]] ([[User talk:EpicDeino|talk]]) 18:37, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

==Mythical Pokémon = Events?==

I know for a fact that the only difference I have found from Legendary and Mythical Pokémon is that most Mythical Pokémon are usually event exclusive with even stats all over (most of the time) and that Legendary Pokémon are usually found towards the ends of games and commonly have higher stats than Mythical Pokémon (not counting Mega Diancie). [[User:BowserBrowser|BowserBrowser]] ([[User talk:BowserBrowser|talk]]) 10:29, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
:It's actually even simpler than that. Legendaries are available in-game. Mythical are unavailable in-game. Nothing else you mentioned is related. It has nothing to do with high stats versus low, or being near the end of the game, or "usually" being event-exclusive (even Deoxys, formerly Mythical, has been listed as "other" in the Japanese promotional material and simply hasn't been referenced as either Legendary ''or'' Mythical in English promotions since ORAS made it available as far as I know - being event-only is not "usually" a trait shared, but ''always'' the case), or whether stats are balanced or specialized. There is a clear-cut distinction between them. (Also, just as a side note, the definition was already on the article before you said this, so I'm not really sure what your point was? XD) [[User:EpicDeino|EpicDeino]] ([[User talk:EpicDeino|talk]]) 23:41, 9 June 2015 (UTC)
:: Ah. [[User:BowserBrowser|BowserBrowser]] ([[User talk:BowserBrowser|talk]]) 21:52, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

==Deoxys==
To avoid edit warring, I'm not changing the page right now (I already had changed Deoxys to say it isn't Mythical and that was reverted, so I'm pretty sure doing so again wouldn't be allowed), but I just wanted to explain the argument against Deoxys being Mythical.
In the Pokémon Scrap event, where you had to collect those clippings to earn Shaymin, Keldeo and Victini, the page on the official site explicitly stated something along the lines of "Shaymin, Keldeo and Victini, '''like other Mythical Pokémon,''' cannot be normally obtained in Pokémon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire." This is an official statement that Mythical does '''always''' mean event-only, so Deoxys isn't an exception - it's just not Mythical '''any more.''' It was before, but it has officially lost the status. [[User:EpicDeino|EpicDeino]] ([[User talk:EpicDeino|talk]]) 23:41, 9 June 2015 (UTC)
:I hadn't noticed this ambiguity until now. You're quite right, it wasn't referred to as a Mythical Pokémon during the ORAS promotion. Granted, it isn't referred to as a Legendary either -- just "Pokémon Deoxys". I think it ought to be classified as a Mythical for the time being, if only because otherwise we might end up revisioning multiple Pokémon way too often (for all we know special "Episodes" that feature Mythical Pokémon might become a regular thing). However, a footnote for its special status is definitely needed, and we have to revisit its situation by the time the ORAS era is over and a new Deoxys event (or game inclusion) makes appearance.

:Which Pokescrap page are you referring to, by the way? The definition used in the (now [http://web.archive.org/web/20141231060449/http://www.pokemon.co.jp/ex/pokescrap2014/pokemon/ archived]) page simply says that Mythical Pokémon aren't available during normal play of the games. It would be interesting if it was indeed explicitly mentioned somewhere that "no Mythical Pokémon are available in ORAS" as far as Deoxys's status is concerned. --[[User:Ash Pokemaster|Ash Pokemaster]] ([[User talk:Ash Pokemaster|talk]]) 06:25, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
::Ah, sorry; I was actually wrong (I couldn't find the page, so I was going from memory) - it doesn't explicitly state "in ORAS." Still, the promotion was ''for'' ORAS, and Deoxys has not been called Mythical since, so it should still be valid evidence, right?
::Also, I'm not sure it'd be as hard as you say to fix it. I mean, if the official classification changes, we should fix it here, right? We add hundreds of pages whenever a new game comes out, so changing one Pokémon's classification wouldn't be unfeasible under the same circumstances (and even if it's mentioned in a lot of places, if we miss a page when altering it, anyone who comes across it can fix it - this isn't a one-person project or anything!). That said, we don't know what Deoxys IS considered right now, so I would be okay with holding off on changing it until we do. We should just definitely fix it as soon as we do know. XD [[User:EpicDeino|EpicDeino]] ([[User talk:EpicDeino|talk]]) 19:35, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
:::It seems you've assumed that Deoxys is no longer even a "Legendary", in addition to not being Mythical either. It seems to me pretty intuitive that Deoxys must be Legendary or Mythical (and definitely not neither), but in the meantime, Deoxys's [http://www.pokemonrubysapphire.com/en-us/pokemon/legendary-pokemon/deoxys inclusion] under the Legendary Pokemon section of the official ORAS site should be proof enough that it is at least Legendary. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 23:16, 10 July 2015 (UTC)
::::"Intuitive" is not the same as "fact," and, in fact, we even have a word. "counterintuitive," to illustrate the possibility of that difference. Assuming based on logic that Deoxys is Legendary is speculation, which, as far as I'm aware, isn't allowed here. [[Talk:Legendary_Pok%C3%A9mon/Archive2|This discussion]] shows that the Japanese site explicitly lists Deoxys as "other" and refers to it as neither Legendary nor Mythical. The "Legendary" Pokémon list is already wrong, with [http://www.pokemonrubysapphire.com/en-us/pokemon/legendary-pokemon/more-legendary-pokemon-appearing-in-mirage-spots this page] pointing out that all Legendary Pokémon can be obtained in-game, on the same site that has a page ''in the Legendary Pokémon section'' on the Mythical Pokémon Keldeo and Shaymin. I would personally say that what they actually say about it should take precedence over where they put it on the site. That said, I'm happy to discuss further, since there is conflicting information, as you have pointed out, and a lot of it is up in the air. (I wonder if Deoxys is going to become the new Phione in regards to debate. XD) [[User:EpicDeino|EpicDeino]] ([[User talk:EpicDeino|talk]]) 04:24, 11 July 2015 (UTC)
:::::I would say, though, that if it flies so in the face of logic, you need pretty strong evidence to say something like Deoxys is neither Legendary nor Mythical (preferably more than just one little thing). As it happens, though, you have perhaps made a bad assumption about [[Talk:Legendary Pokémon/Archive2#Proposed split|SnorlaxMonster's comment]]. While it is true that [http://www.pokemon.co.jp/ex/oras/pokemon/ the Japanese ORAS site] has a section for "Legendardy Pokemon" (伝説のポケモン), the fact that Deoxys is located under "Other" (その他) very much does not mean that Deoxys is neither Legendary nor Mythical, not when Mythical (幻の) is mentioned nowhere. I believe SnorlaxMonster in fact meant to say that since it's not listed under Legendary, they must consider Deoxys Mythical. In fact, if you look at that page now, you will see that Hoopa is also listed with Deoxys under "Other", so either they consider both of them Mythical or, as you assume, neither Mythical nor Legendary...despite the fact that Hoopa fits the supposed definition of Mythical to a tee. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 06:12, 11 July 2015 (UTC)
::::::I might be able to help with what I meant by my own comment. I wasn't trying to say that because Deoxys is intentionally not listed as a Legendary Pokémon that it is necessarily a Mythical Pokémon; I was simply saying that it heavily indicated that Deoxys is not a Legendary Pokémon. To my knowledge, no official material has referred to Deoxys as Mythical since the release of ORAS, but we also do not have any evidence that it has had its Mythical status revoked, so we should continue to list it as such. I didn't notice Hoopa was listed in the "Other" section too, but that certainly is interesting; however, the section is merely "Other", so it simply means that they do not fit into the other sections on the page, not that they are both Mythical or both not Mythical. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 06:24, 11 July 2015 (UTC)
:::::::This [https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/GYRH6RJ survey] strongly implies Deoxys is not a Mythical Pokémon. The question says "Which of these are your favorite Mythical Pokémon? (Choose your top 3.)", and includes every Mythical Pokémon, but not Phione or Deoxys.--[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 11:20, 11 July 2015 (UTC)
::::::::Just to state it plainly, it is still possible Deoxys is Legendary even though it does not appear anywhere else in the survey either, since there are other reliably "Legendary" Pokemon also missing (Mewtwo, Heatran, Kyurem, and Zygarde). [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 12:49, 11 July 2015 (UTC)
:::::::::Oh, I completely did misunderstand that comment. I'm sorry. >.< I genuinely thought it said Deoxys was neither Mythical nor Legendary; it wasn't so much an assumption as completely misreading. XD That said, shouldn't that site saying it's not Legendary (even if it doesn't mention being Mythical) and the aforementioned PokéScrap site saying it's not Mythical count as proof, even if they were separate? The PokéScrap site IS proof that the Mythical status was revoked, because it specifically says ALL Mythical Pokémon are unavailable, and Deoxys was available. [[User:EpicDeino|EpicDeino]] ([[User talk:EpicDeino|talk]]) 20:42, 11 July 2015 (UTC)
::::::::::It's not proof Deoxys is neither. For my money, the Pokemon Company(/whatever) just doesn't really have its mind made up or doesn't want to make up/make known its mind on Deoxys's status, and/or there may also be some disconnect between English and Japanese branches or something. They need to paint a consistent and/or unambiguous picture, and until they do, IMO we need to avoid drawing conclusions from little, inconclusive hints. (And in the meantime, we should either consider Deoxys to provisionally have its previous status or to at least have the status that it logically deserves.) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 21:07, 11 July 2015 (UTC)
:::::::::::Just checked the survey you cited. It asked to pick your favorite Mythical Pokémon, and ALL Mythical Pokémon were listed. However, the Legendary Pokémon section was specifically for grouped Legendary Pokémon - it specifically says "pick your favorite pair" and "pick your favorite grouping." It never says that's every Legendary, and, in fact, it clearly says it's only counting ones that are pairs or groups. As such, the survey is reliable (although it doesn't prove Deoxys isn't Legendary - just that it's not Mythical). In contrast, it did say it was listing every Mythical Pokémon, so Deoxys (and, unrelatedly, Phione) are not counted. Can you provide any proof that it IS Mythical? Because right now, that's what we're calling it, yet even your own argument points only towards it either being Legendary if it is either, and its placement in "other" indicates that it's not Legendary. Please stop saying it ''deserves'' the status and therefore speculatively claiming it is "logically" Mythical. Speculation isn't permitted in the mainspace as far as I am aware.
:::::::::::I'm also aware it being "other" and not Legendary and it being available and not Mythical aren't conclusive individually. That's why I gave them both. Together, they DO prove that it is neither, because each proves that it can't be one of the two.
:::::::::::Also, they do seem to have made up their minds. I'm pretty sure you're just looking for an excuse to call it Mythical when it clearly isn't any more. [[User:EpicDeino|EpicDeino]] ([[User talk:EpicDeino|talk]]) 22:25, 11 July 2015 (UTC)
::::::::::::I never said that logically it is Mythical. I tried to say that it is not really logical that Deoxys would be classified as neither Legendary nor Mythical. (And beyond that, I don't really care which way Deoxys is classified, but there should be good proof behind whatever decision gets made.)
::::::::::::And that's the difference between you and I. You don't want to assume anything like that, and I think it is the height of folly to presume Deoxys wouldn't be counted either Legendary or Mythical. So when you see one place that implies Deoxys isn't Mythical and one that implies Deoxys isn't Legendary, you say, then it must be neither. Meanwhile, I see the same thing and just see contradicting implications and think everyone's not on the same page who should be (if they even know which page they want to be on, that is). And since all we have are implications, neither of us ''actually'' has anything approaching proof that Deoxys is X or Y or none of the above. For both of us, it makes sense, and there's ''nothing'' starkly clear enough to decide for us who is right.
::::::::::::That's why I said we need a clear statement from an official source. Until then, all our arguing about our interpretations of measly hints will get us precisely nowhere. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 02:21, 12 July 2015 (UTC)
::::::::::::Addendum: we've also forgotten the official ORAS English site I mentioned above. On the one hand, we have the [http://www.pokemon.co.jp/ex/oras/pokemon/ official Japanese site] that has a section for "Legendaries" but elects to include Deoxys under "Other" (implying Deoxys is not "Legendary"), while on the other, we have the [http://www.pokemonrubysapphire.com/en-us/pokemon/legendary-pokemon/deoxys official English site] where Deoxys is included in the Legendary Pokemon section. If that's not a strong indication that someones ''somewhere'' are not on the same page, about ''one thing'' or another, I don't know what is. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 02:31, 12 July 2015 (UTC)
:::::::::::::The Japanese information is not contradictory. If we're explicitly told that it's not Legendary and then explicitly told that it's not Mythical, that doesn't mean "one of them must be wrong," which is ''speculation,'' but that, ''given what we have,'' it is not Legendary or Mythical.
:::::::::::::The English site's categorization can't be taken into account because it is already wrong (as I explained, Keldeo and Shaymin prove that it's already not accurate considering other statements ''also on the English site''), but that's the only one we can prove is wrong. There is, therefore, not ''hinting'' but ''confirmation'' from the only sources we can't prove are wrong, that Deoxys is neither, and only information from a source I ''have'' proven is wrong to indicate that it might be one of them.
:::::::::::::Even so, since, clearly, it IS still debatable, I would honestly suggest doing it like Phione, because the situation is exactly the same, with official sources seemingly contradicting one another; we could list points like "it used to be Mythical and no Pokémon has been demoted before," "even if it is no longer event-only, it should transition to Legendary instead of being normal" and "the English site lists it as Legendary" and whatever else you can think of for pro-Legendary or Mythical status and "the Japanese site has stated in an Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire promotion that only event-only Pokémon are Mythical, a requirement which Deoxys no longer meets," "the Japanese site has listed it as non-Legendary, indicating that it is neither Mythical nor Legendary," and "the reliability of its placement on the English site is questionable due to the already-contradictory information in it, with Shaymin and Keldeo being classified as Legendary despite another statement on the site claiming that all Legendary Pokémon are obtainable in Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire" for against. This would be completely true - it IS under debate - and it's the only way to accurately represent both sides in the article. Sound like an adequate compromise? [[User:EpicDeino|EpicDeino]] ([[User talk:EpicDeino|talk]]) 02:54, 12 July 2015 (UTC)
{{indent}}I think you're being needlessly uptight about [http://www.pokemonrubysapphire.com/en-gb/pokemon/legendary-pokemon/change-two-mythical-pokemon Keldeo/Shaymin] and the statement that "all Legendary Pokémon can be obtained in-game". (I say this realizing that the same could perhaps be said about my conviction that Deoxys must be either Legendary or Mythical. =P ) There are reasonable explanations why they're included in the Legendary Pokemon section. They could easily consider Mythical and Legendary Pokemon similar enough, and/or consider it too much of a hassle to make a whole separate Mythical section, that including them under Legendary is good enough for ''most'' users (perhaps not for at least one, plainly =P ). In any case, the Legendary section is still plainly the section for Legendary or Mythical Pokemon. You're taking it too far when you try to dismiss it entirely as ''any'' sort of evidence about Deoxys' status.

"One source must be wrong" is no more speculation than "Deoxys is neither Legendary nor Mythical". Both fly in the face of plain facts (plain "statements" by different sources vs all of Deoxys's Legendary- or Mythical-like characteristics). They are in fact both reasonable conclusions, that simply differ as a result of placing different value on different pieces of evidence.

I am loath to say Deoxys should be treated anything like Phione. (But I wouldn't stop it if people think it should be.) Someone else can comment on that. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 04:01, 12 July 2015 (UTC)
:If I would say, I'd say that make a conclusion based on 2 sources with different languages (wait, is the survey available in other language, too?) is not what we should always do, because of the localization or something (I don't know why, but the survey even says Dialga, Palkia and Giratina ''are'' a pair).

:About the Shaymin/Keldeo page, it clearly says "Change Two Mythical Pokémon!" and "The Mythical Pokémon Shaymin and Keldeo can change their appearance...", so I agree that it weird when you said about all Legendary can be obtain in ORAS (also, "between XY and ORAS", not "in ORAS"). And after all, maybe it's not so unreliable like you said, maybe it just whoever at TPC categorize the site thinks that "Mythical" is a subset category of "Legendary" (like what I always thought before last week).

:And about treating Deoxys like Phione, I think we should just write the debates in the trivia sections (at both this page and {{p|Deoxys|Deoxys's page}}) as normal. I think it's not worth making things as serious as Phione. We should ask more people about this. --[[User:Yen01|Yen01]] ([[User talk:Yen01|talk]]) 04:56, 12 July 2015 (UTC)
::If other Pokémon that we know aren't Legendary are in the section, it ''can't'' be used as evidence that something else in it is Legendary, regardless of what you speculate they may have been thinking - they made an error in a nearly identical situation, and without verification, we can't be sure that Deoxys' placement isn't another, and we certainly can't use it as proof of anything. I'm not being "uptight" about it; it's an error and the source can't be used for proof if it contains other false information. We can put a trivia point saying "Deoxys was called Legendary on the ORAS website" like how we mention the '''errors''' in spelling Jessie's name by different sources. That said, again, it ''is'' debated, with conflicting official sources. Which really is the same as Phione, minus the fact that Deoxys has ''fan-designated'' traits associated with Legendary Pokémon and Phione has ''fan-designated'' traits associated with non-Mythical Pokémon. Deoxys' status is debated and there is conflict between official sources. You've said so yourself. Phione's status is also debated and there is conflict between official sources. ''Why'' is Deoxys' situation different from Phione's and ''why'' should they be treated differently?
::Yen01, I did mean between XY and ORAS. Didn't realize I only mentioned ORAS in that retelling of the information. Sorry! Also, I'm not using sources from different languages. Both of the sources ''I'' presented were Japanese; other people were bringing up the survey and the English site, but I've been using a consistent language when bringing up new points, and going only by the sources from one language, I have explained why Deoxys is not Legendary and not Mythical. [[User:EpicDeino|EpicDeino]] ([[User talk:EpicDeino|talk]]) 05:20, 12 July 2015 (UTC)
:::Don't try to downplay the commonalities among Legendary and/or Mythical Pokemon by calling them "fan-designated". They are not, as that implies, ''made up'' by fans. It doesn't matter if no official source has explicitly defined those characteristics in writing; they don't need to. They have manifestly created those "Legendary" and "Mythical" Pokemon and/or the games such that those Pokemon have common characteristics that are readily identifiable by anyone moderately familiar with the games. That is not "fan-designated", that's just being observant. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 06:32, 12 July 2015 (UTC)
::::All pseudo-Legendaries were dual-typed and that was considered not only an observation, but a rule. Then Goodra came. Pseudo-Legendary is referred to not only as a fan term but a flexible one despite being a pattern of Pokémon specifically designed to have common characteristics readily identifiable by most fans. "Being observant" and using basic logic to solve something like this ''is'' speculation and assumption, which, no matter how obvious it is, can't be put on Bulbapedia. This is a site that still doesn't consider Zygarde a member of the Mortality Trio because it's not confirmed. Deoxys' status as Legendary or Mythical is, as of ORAS, just as inconclusive as Phione's, and no amount of ''your opinion'' on what makes a Pokémon "deserve" the status can change that. [[User:EpicDeino|EpicDeino]] ([[User talk:EpicDeino|talk]]) 06:56, 12 July 2015 (UTC)
:::::I think the English site including Deoxys and Mythical Pokémon under "Legendary Pokémon" can just be marked down to an error; we have ample evidence that Legendary and Mythical Pokémon are mutually-exclusive groups from both English and Japanese sources.
:::::"pseudo-Legendary" is a fan term to describe a pattern in Pokémon. I had always argued that "dual-typed" was merely a coincidence and not a critical part of the pattern. Regardless, they were never officially defined as a group, so their parameters were always fan-designated, whereas "Mythical Pokémon" has been officially defined. The two are not comparable.
:::::I think it's entirely reasonable to handle Deoxys like Phione at present. Both are permitted in the upcoming "Circle of Legends" tournament, which only permits Legendary and Mythical Pokémon, despite us having conflicting evidence about their status as Mythical Pokémon. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 08:03, 12 July 2015 (UTC)
::::::You are as wrong as it is possible to be that I am speculating, EpicDeino. I am indeed assuming, but so are you and so is anyone who won't just shrug and say "I don't know". Lacking an explicit and unambiguous statement one way or another, that's all it is ''possible'' to do, in the end; look at all your evidence, weigh it, and draw your own, personal conclusion/opinion. You're no more special than I in that regard. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 09:06, 12 July 2015 (UTC)
:::::::Snorlax, I meant in regards to Legendary Pokémon. I know Mythical has fixed criteria. Sorry; it wasn't clear in that post, but when I said "fan-designated traits associated with non-Mythical Pokémon," I meant things like breedability that ''weren't'' official criteria and people were just assuming. I have mentioned the official distinction between Mythical and normal previously, and was trying (albeit very vaguely) to illustrate the point that any requirements that ''are'' fan-designated (that is, anything else) aren't actually relevant.
:::::::I am also aware that pseudo-Legendary is a fan group, and I was comparing the fact that fans claim ''that'' pattern is deliberate on Game Freak's part and entirely consistent to the fact that they also claim that the traits shared by Legendary Pokémon (which are, unlike Mythical Pokémon, really ''only'' bound by official statement of their status - there is no official statement of the traits that "make" a Legendary) are deliberate on Game Freak's part and entirely consistent, the latter of which was being used to say that Deoxys "deserved" the status more than Phione and being used as an argument against treating them similarly.
:::::::Tiddlywinks, may I ask why you claim I'm acting as if ''I'm'' "special?" You have cited fan-designated "rules" for Legendaries - and I've explained why fan-designated "rules" have changed in the past for other patterns that fans picked up on by being "observant" - and said "it deserves the status" and that it seems "intuitive" that it would be one of them, both of which are blatantly opinionated, along with citing exactly one source. You've also repeatedly disregarded the statements that I've made, saying that they are "contradictory" when they go hand in hand with one another and are from a consistent and accurate source, and that they prove ''nothing'' simply because they prove the two halves of the point separately rather than simultaneously... which means absolutely nothing about their validity. You've also said I'm being "needlessly uptight" about a factual error that conclusively proves a source's unreliability, then provided yet more speculation in the form of ''your idea of why the error might have happened,'' as if that makes it any less of an error. Common mistake ≠ not a mistake. Understandable mistake ≠ not a mistake. In contrast to all of your speculation, assumptions and allegedly "logical" statements that ''contradict'' facts, I've exclusively cited actual evidence and used ''no'' opinionated statements as reasoning, and I have proven - repeatedly - that the only source of ''real evidence'' you have brought up is unreliable. Despite this, I'm ''still'' trying to settle for the lesser option of acknowledging the debate on the page and treating it like Phione ''instead of'' trying to press my own stance, which seems to be what the majority of official evidence points towards, and having the page flat-out state that it's not Legendary or Mythical as I originally desired. There is still ''no proof'' that it is Legendary or Mythical, except for ''one'' categorization in a list that is ''already'' erroneous and therefore unreliable, while there is conclusive proof from a separate source that does ''not'' actively contradict itself. I still fail to see why you think your argument holds as much weight as mine, let alone that I must see myself as "special" - a case of ''ad hominem'' that has nothing to do with the argument, which is often frowned upon in the average debate almost as much as saying that the fact that it's not Legendary and the fact that it's not Mythical don't prove that it isn't Legendary or Mythical (how can something not be Legendary or Mythical, but... still be one of those things?) - for not being totally sold on the opinions, factually invalid "logic," patterns and invalid sources you've used to present your case. Just saying. [[User:EpicDeino|EpicDeino]] ([[User talk:EpicDeino|talk]]) 10:46, 12 July 2015 (UTC)
::::::::You're misunderstanding me greatly if you think I want to treat Deoxys unfairly. I never said that Doexys and Phione should not be treated similarly. I only said that I am (very much personally/selfishly) loath to ''endorse'' treating Deoxys like Phione. I very explicitly meant to leave open the possibility that it was/is the right thing to do; however, *I* simply did not want to be the one to validate that. The sole reason for that sentiment is that I would ''much'' rather have a solid answer than endorse another "Well, gee, we're not really sure, so let us show you a bunch of bits and pieces of info, and just have a think on it yourself..." in the mainspace. But, as I said, if it ''is'' the right thing to do, then I have ''no intention'' of gainsaying that; of ''insisting'' that Deoxys be treated "unfairly".
::::::::My quandry comes down to this... I don't think it should be radical to say that it would be a ''drastic'' action to officially strip a Legendary or Mythical Pokemon of those titles. (I really don't care if you think this is "just" opinion.) Given that, I think it is unconscionable to claim that this is what happened without a very explicit and unambiguous statement that that is exactly the case. We do not have that.
::::::::There did used to be a [[Pokémon.com#Mailbag|Mailbag]]. Is there no way to ask someone officially now whether Deoxys is officially a Legendary, or a Mythical, or perhaps neither?
::::::::Also, FWIW, "You're no more special than I", i.e., "You and I are basically ''equals''" is not ad hominem. I just wrote it that way for a bit of (I feel) poetic flair or something. I think if you read it consistently with my statement there, it ''should'' come off as just saying "Hey, we both have opinions, and it's natural for you to think you're right, but please don't try to say I'm being wildly unreasonable (i.e., speculating)." I don't care if you think I am unreasonable (i.e., reasoning wrong), because I certainly think you are in places, but I think that to label my reasoning speculation is, itself, unreasonable. =P
::::::::(I could also try to state more clearly now why I'm reasonable—to answer your questions above of why I'm seeming to be "illogical"—but I really don't like long talk page posts and it really isn't sounding like I'm going to convince you of the merits of my arguments, or even that my logic ''is'' "logical" and not ''just'' opinion or speculation, so I kind of think it's pointless.) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 17:11, 12 July 2015 (UTC)
::::::::Oh yeah, as SnorlaxMonster mentioned above: "Both [Deoxys and Phione] are permitted in the upcoming "Circle of Legends" tournament, which only permits Legendary and Mythical Pokémon". Is that good enough for you? [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 17:27, 12 July 2015 (UTC)
:::::::::"Phione is a usable Pokémon in the recently announced Rotation Battle tournament Circle of Legends where only Legendary and Mythical Pokémon are allowed." That's already mentioned on Phione's page - in the "evidence for" section, which, along with the "evidence against" section, ''still exists'' in Trivia in spite of this evidence. Bulbapedia has clearly deemed it insufficient proof for Phione, so it's insufficient proof for Deoxys. The "other" section of Phione's page also points out "Originally, Phione was not needed in order to complete the National Pokédex, as with other Mythical Pokémon. However, beginning with Pokémon X and Y, it is needed to qualify for the diploma." This is the same as Deoxys. It also mentions the mailbag, which not only changed its answer and therefore wasn't even included to favor a specific side, but nothing like which currently exists as far as I know. Not an option right now. From the survey and the Pokédex, we know it's not Mythical, so that just leaves the dispute between Legendary and neither. You've cited the Circle of Legends tournament - which is still being listed on the page ''as part of the dispute'' and not conclusive evidence in Phione's case - against the Japanese official site - which has not been proven unreliable, either, and should be considered equal. Two conflicting sources. Notice, also, that most of Phione's evidence is from different games. Deoxys has only had one game since the conflict started, so it makes sense that there would be less evidence, but an official source outside of games (the guide in Phione's case and the Japanese site in Deoxys') and the Circle of Legends tournament (for both) contradict each other in the same way. So, Deoxys is not Mythical - we even have ''in-game'' proof - and we have conflicting evidence from official sources that contradict each other on whether or not they were Legendary. Still in the same scenario as Phione. If you don't want to "be the one to endorse" that they should be treated the same, why? There's equal evidence for both sides. The scenario is the same - you're just saying that ''you personally don't want them to be treated the same'' regardless, simply because you'd rather have a clear official statement - which we don't have right now and can't get. When and if we get official confirmation of exactly what Deoxys is, we can change the page to say so. But Phione hasn't gotten that after eight years of being around, so that's utterly absurd - we cannot wait until ''something that may never happen'' before we address the fact that a Pokémon now listed as Mythical is NOT Mythical (that much, at least, hasn't been argued against once in this entire debate, and ''that'' is what the page currently '''falsely''' states), is either Legendary or normal and that there ''is'' conflicting evidence between official sources as to which of the two possibilities it is. ''This is no different from Phione.'' And while Deoxys may have less evidence, it has less ''for both sides,'' because the dispute hasn't existed for as long.
:::::::::Side note: Yes, "you're no more special than I" does mean "you and I are equals." It also, unlike the presented alternative, contains many implications that are not only rude but, in this scenario, false (unless you care to explain why they're true, which the bottom of your post suggests you don't plan on doing) - "you're no more special than I" clearly states that the other person ''thinks'' he or she ''is'' more special carries the implication that they're acting in a biased (which more accurately describes some of ''your'' arguments, such as "it deserves the status"), entitled, or otherwise narcissistic or selfish manner. They have the same meaning, but "you're no more special than I" has much harsher (and, yes, insulting) connotations. It's not "poetic;" it's rude.
:::::::::Last thing: how is it unreasonable for me to call your speculation what it is? I'll gladly admit I'm wrong ''if you explain why I am.''
:::::::::There's no valid reason not to simply treat it like Phione when the only proof you have is ''shared by Phione'' and the alternative you've requested ''isn't possible right now.'' [[User:EpicDeino|EpicDeino]] ([[User talk:EpicDeino|talk]]) 22:57, 12 July 2015 (UTC)
::::::::::You are having considerable trouble understanding me, when I thought I was being very clear. Read this and take it to heart, please: I am NOT trying to push that Deoxys should not be treated like Phione. I do not claim that there is conclusive evidence of anything for Deoxys. Please stop writing as if I am. I will ignore anything else from you for now until I believe you understand me on this. Thank you. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 01:06, 13 July 2015 (UTC)
:::::::::::You explicitly stated that despite not being against the idea, you refused to endorse it ''in favor of waiting for an official statement.'' I explained in my post why that's probably not an option.
:::::::::::Second, "Oh yeah, as SnorlaxMonster mentioned above: "Both [Deoxys and Phione] are permitted in the upcoming "Circle of Legends" tournament, which only permits Legendary and Mythical Pokémon". '''Is that good enough for you?'''" Considering that this was in the same post that you said you wanted to deal with the issue when we got an official statement, this sounded an awful lot like an attempt at proving it was conclusively Legendary, particularly the last sentence. I only reacted to exactly what you said here.
:::::::::::Third, you're now using "I'm going to ignore you" as a way to avoid the other part of my post: you still haven't explained how the majority of your argument was anything but speculation, with your statements of "it deserves it," "it has common traits of Legendaries" and the like being absolutely opinionated and your previous insistence that people weren't on the same page and the evidence I presented was void when two pieces of evidence that ''didn't'' contradict one another supported the opposite side simply because ''you thought it must be an error for Deoxys not to be Legendary or Mythical'' after defending a source I criticized for already being wrong about something. You can't say I'm the one being biased and acting entitled or "special" when you have previously - in this same debate - tried to ignore perfectly valid evidence because it contradicted ''what you wanted at that point in the argument''. [[User:EpicDeino|EpicDeino]] ([[User talk:EpicDeino|talk]]) 03:10, 13 July 2015 (UTC)
::::::::::::1)You seem to believe here that it is critical that you convince me of this, as if I am somehow stopping you or anyone else. Let me repeat myself: I take no part in that decision, in any way. (If you think I have, you mistake me.) Decide it with others (or yourself).
::::::::::::2) I'm sorry if it sounded like I thought it was a conclusive, official statement. That's not really the case. What I meant was, you had denounced the other things I had attempted to give you as valid evidence that Deoxys was Legendary or Mythical (either you think I'm speculating or you think it's unreliable); so, would you consider the tournament a valid piece of evidence that Deoxys is Legendary or Mythical? (I don't ask you to be convinced that Deoxys is Legendary or Mythical. I'm only asking that you recognize it as validly contradicting the conclusion you've held so far (when you've so far claimed that nothing I've brought up can), that Deoxys is neither Legendary nor Mythical; a smidgen of reasonable doubt, in short.)
::::::::::::3) Understand that "It has common traits of Legendaries" (Deoxys and indisputably Legendary Pokemon share certain traits that other Pokemon (not counting Mythicals) do not have) is not opinion, it is fact. What you mean is, you do not accept that there are any traits (short of officially being given the title) that define a Legendary Pokemon. Which is fine. But it does not mean Deoxys does not have those traits. Those commonalities cannot be wished away; the only point where you have choice (opinion) is in the conclusion you make from them. (FWIW, you also throw out a quote of me of "It deserves it" like it's something separate, but that's actually squarely based on Deoxys' Legendary traits. ...The rest, I can't really bring anything new to. I have explained and you've rejected; I'm comfortable with it being a simple difference of opinion.) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 04:19, 13 July 2015 (UTC)
(Resetting indent.)
1) Okay. I just figured I might as well explain it anyway, since the purpose of this discussion is to get a consensus and you said you would prefer an official statement even though that's not an option.
2) Ah, sorry for misunderstanding. Then yes, that is a valid point that should definitely be brought up somewhere (after all, it is with Phione).
3) My dispute with that quote was more or less that I interpreted what you were saying as making it off as some kind of "rule" when other patterns that fans claimed were deliberate and consistent later changed.
But considering your last post, I do understand your stance and... basically don't think there's anything to argue with you about any more? I apologize for misunderstanding some of your statements and probably coming off as rude in how I reacted to them (especially given that I was wrong in the first place). Thank you for the clarification! [[User:EpicDeino|EpicDeino]] ([[User talk:EpicDeino|talk]]) 05:36, 13 July 2015 (UTC)
:You're welcome. =) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 06:05, 13 July 2015 (UTC)
::I'm adding a little thing to this discussion: ORAS take place in another dimension/universe/whatever, right? Well, in that dimension Deoxys is Legendary, while in the previous one it's Mythical. This is only a possible explanation of the vague classification we have now from Game Freak/TPC, it should by no means be included in any page, but I thought it could be interesting to add to your conversation. In this way, there is no "change of classification" from Mythical to Legendary (or "other"): it simply is another world with its own classification. [[User:Shepeedy|Shepeedy]] ([[User talk:Shepeedy|talk]]) 22:25, 14 July 2015 (UTC)
:::I all but laughed out loud when I happened to notice this... It turns out that Deoxys is actually explicitly called a "Mythical Pokemon" in-game. I'm not sure if there are any Youtube videos that explicitly show this, but if you return to the second floor of the Mossdeep Space Center after clearing the Delta Episode, there's a small dialogue event where it happens. If you look up the text dump, you can see it there, or of course you can test it yourself directly in-game.
:::IMO, if they've said it explicitly in-game (perhaps especially if it's in-game), then Deoxys ''is'' Mythical, even if the supposed definition of "Mythical" seems to contradict that classification. (I kind of think that in order to contradict this, TPC/whatever might have to either explicitly state that Deoxys is "''not'' a Mythical Pokemon" or they'll have to explicitly say/show that Deoxys is Legendary (or common) with some consistency.) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 19:40, 25 July 2015 (UTC)
::::This is the quote for future reference:
::::''"Extrapolating from the energy readings we observed seems to show evidence of the '''Mythical Pokémon''' that lives in space: Deoxys."''
::::And in the Japanese version:
::::「われわれの　かんそくしたエネルギーは　から　すいそく　するにそれは　うちゅうに　せいそく　すると　いわれる '''まぼろしの　ポケモン'''―――デオキシス」
::::The only other times the word Mythical is used in ORAS is during the Diancie Pokémon Center event and in the Volcanion TV specials. Legendary is only used in ORAS to refer to Kyogre, Groudon, Rayquaza, someone's wife, when you have more than three in your party for a competition, and in the Pokédex entries for the birds, tao trio, and Yveltal. --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 21:34, 25 July 2015 (UTC)
:::::Pfft, wow. I cannot believe I didn't know about that.
:::::Well, I'm kind of embarrassed right now. XD I can't exactly argue with the game itself explicitly stating that it's Mythical, so... Yeah, I guess it is. :'D [[User:EpicDeino|EpicDeino]] ([[User talk:EpicDeino|talk]]) 02:30, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

'''Deoxys is not allowed to join player's team in the next year as the world tournament, so I think the answer is obvious.''' [[User:E9310103838|E9310103838]] ([[User talk:E9310103838|talk]]) 07:08, 16 December 2015 (UTC)
:Not necessarily. If I remember right not long before/after Diancie was officially revealed there was a tournament that let you use any Pokémon except Diancie. I think the reason for that is obvious: it was officially revealed but was not yet distributed but people still had it through hacking. My point with that is that they can ban Pokémon from tournaments for practically any reason. So it's not impossible that it's banned because it used to be a Mythical Pokémon. I'm just trying to make a point and am actually neutral on the situation. And either way I consider Mythical Pokémon to be a type of Legendary Pokémon so to me it wouldn't be part of completely separate group either way.[[User:Flain|Flain]] ([[User talk:Flain|talk]]) 21:46, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

== More? ==
Is there some logic that with some legendary pokemon there are more than one in anime(for example: Latios, Lugia), and with some only one (Mew, Tornados)? [[User:Lokki|Lokki]] ([[User talk:Lokki|talk]]), 19:38, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

:No legendary is unique. Think about it. If it were unique, if one dies, the species goes extinct. That should have happened a long time ago if they were unique. We haven't seen ALL of Dialga's or Palkia's dimensions, either. Same goes for Giratina and Arceus. We have only seen small sections of them. For all we know, these dimensions could have thousands or even MILLIONS of their respective species. And of course, there are multiple Mews: One flies throughout the world, while another is at the Tree of Beginning. For Mewtwo, both fly around the world. One has a more woman-like voice, and that one can Mega Evolve. I could go on all day, naming all the legendaries and saying why we know there is multiple, but I'm getting bored of typing this. [[User:TheRealArceus|TheRealArceus]] ([[User talk:TheRealArceus|talk]]) 16:47, 5 July 2015 (UTC)
::This discussion is more suited for the forums, so please take it over there.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 23:26, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

== Is Zygarde a Member of the Mortality Duo?(Therefore making it the Mortality Trio) ==

Look at it this way. Kyurem was the final member of the Tao trio. Giratina was the final member of the Creation Trio and Rayquaza was the trump card in the Weather Trio. If Game Freak has taught me anything its that the same formula works most of the time.[[User:PastureGaiPokemon12|PastureGaiPokemon12]] ([[User talk:PastureGaiPokemon12|talk]]) 23:04:18 7 August,2015(UTC)
:There's nothing that actually calls it a member of the Mortality Duo, therefore it is not listed as such. [[User:Litwick96|Litwick]][[User Talk:Litwick96|96]] 20:33, 7 August 2015 (UTC)
::It most definitely is, considering the clues and patterns seen before, so it's pretty blatantly obvious that Zygarde is most definitely in a trio with Xerneas and Yveltal. I will say that it definitely fits the pattern with Rayquaza, Giratina, and Kyurem, and there are a few clues with Zygarde being related to Xerneas and Yveltal. That being said, even though the clues make it obvious that Zygarde is related to Xerneas and Yveltal, it's not explicitly stated in X and Y and is therefore unconfirmed, which is why it is not listed as being in a trio with Xerneas and Yveltal. So in short, wait until we get an announcement of the inevitable Pokemon Z before we do anything with listing Zygarde as being in a trio with Xerneas and Yveltal. [[User:ScraftyIsTheBest|ScraftyIsTheBest]] ([[User talk:ScraftyIsTheBest|talk]]) 01:31, 8 August 2015 (UTC)
Zygarde is known as the Order Pokemon while Xerneas and Yveltal are Peace and Chaos respectively (I think), Its like Rayquaza all over again. Balance is needed so we have Zygarde.([[User talk:PastureGaiPokemon12|talk]])
:Unless it is explicitly stated, Zygarde is not part of any trio. Yes, it's quite obvious, but we have no official confirmation (from the game or the anime) that it is part of a trio. Giratina was not considered part of a trio '''until''' Platinum was released, Kyurem was not considered part of a trio '''until''' Black2/White2 were released. So it's the same situation here, we will have to wait for a game to be released that will confirm its relation with Xerneas/Yveltal.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 03:23, 8 August 2015 (UTC)
::There does seem to be some official evidence pointing towards them being a trio. Specifically:
::*I haven't played Rumble World in a while, so this is from someone else, but apparently you need to get ''all three'' of them to unlock a Title, in exactly the same manner as every other Legendary Trio. (For reference, this Title is "Aura Traveler"). '''This is the strongest piece of evidence''' in that an actual game, albeit a side game, '''explicitly considers them a trio.''' and, in doing so, affects actual gameplay. Other trios (Super-Ancient Pokémon, Creation Trio, and Tao Trio at the very least) are treated exactly the same as this trio.
::*CoroCoro explicitly compares Zygarde to Xerneas and Yveltal in the latest issue. Although it is only in terms of power, they singled out those two even though plenty of other Legendaries have exactly the same stat total. This is fairly tenuous, but they explicitly compared it to the very two Pokémon already considered a trio in Rumble World.
::*All three have Aura-based Abilities, and Zygarde's directly interacts with those of Xerneas and Yveltal.
::Not sure how much of a difference this makes, but considering actual in-game ties between exclusively Zygarde and Xerneas or Yveltal (their Abilities), comparisons between this trio and only this trio ''in CoroCoro,'' and an actual ''game'' considers them a trio, I think that it's been officially confirmed and not being made up by fans. [[User:EpicDeino|EpicDeino]] ([[User talk:EpicDeino|talk]]) 23:23, 12 September 2015 (UTC)
:::Hello? I don't even care if the answer is yes or no, but there ''needs'' to be an answer. Bulbapedia's policy is that we're not allowed to change the page until discussion, and apparently even the fact that nobody is presenting a counterargument isn't enough, so people ''need to discuss'' whether they agree or not or nothing is ever going to get done. So... BUMPing this? (Is that the right term here?) [[User:EpicDeino|EpicDeino]] ([[User talk:EpicDeino|talk]]) 00:23, 23 October 2015 (UTC)
::::ForceFire's response above still applies. In short: ''just wait''. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 03:05, 23 October 2015 (UTC)

:::::It is pretty obvious, besides it will likely be confirmed by early or late next year.[[User:Animaltamer7|Animaltamer7]]07:29, 23 October 2015 (UTC)
::::::ForceFire's response said to wait ''until we have proof.'' Rumble World recognizes them as a trio. How is that not proof
:::::: Again, I'm fine if that's not good enough, but at least respond to the evidence instead of saying a post ''from before there was any whatsoever'' that said ''to wait until there was any whatsoever'' still applies. Right now, evidence for consists of a side game and evidence against consists of "there is no evidence for," which is currently no longer true, although admittedly Rumble World IS relatively minor even if it is in-game proof. [[User:EpicDeino|EpicDeino]] ([[User talk:EpicDeino|talk]]) 09:02, 23 October 2015 (UTC)
:::::::From what you wrote above, it sounds like Rumble World only ''implies'' they're a trio. If Rumble World's treatment of trios is not something that they have plainly said, "This is something we will only do for trios", it does not amount to proof, it is only supportive evidence. We need something ''explicit'' (clear, unarguable, unopinionated). [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 09:30, 23 October 2015 (UTC)

(reset indent)As Tiddly said it only implies, until something from CoroCoro or any official source has confirmation that they are a trio (which again is obvious) it should be left unchanged.[[User:Animaltamer7|Animaltamer7]]11:37, 23 October 2015 (UTC)
:"a set or group of three people or things."
:How does ''grouping'' them and only them together for an achievement only "imply" that they are a group? We can always take it off if there's any counterevidence, but we legitimately have them ''as a group'' in a game. [[User:EpicDeino|EpicDeino]] ([[User talk:EpicDeino|talk]]) 04:42, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

::Just be patient.[[User:Animaltamer7|Animaltamer7]]04:58, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
:::We're not talking about just "groups". A "group" does not a "trio" make (''not'' all by itself). Trios are a special relationship, and nothing so far has plainly testified to such a relationship.
:::You missed a very important point in my previous response: ''"If Rumble World's treatment of trios is not something that they have plainly said, 'This is something we will only do for trios', it does not amount to proof"''. Right now, you are ASSUMING that because they are grouped, that means they must be a Legendary Trio. But in truth, you have not shown that being in that group MUST mean they are a Legendary trio; you have only shown that it is ''reasonable''. That is not sufficient. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 05:21, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
::::First: I just gave the ''actual definition of trio.'' If they are a group of exactly three, ''they are a trio,'' and Rumble World makes it clear that they are a group of three.
::::Second: Have the others even been called Legendary Trios? We say it's "reasonable" to group Dialga, Palkia and Giratina because they're all Sinnoh mascots. But are they ''officially called'' Legendary Trios? Last I checked, that's not even an official term.
::::So I honestly don't know why having ''identical treatment to every other thing we group as a Legendary Trio'' is insufficient. Nor why people keep saying "be patient" as if I'm just saying "it's logical, why don't you idiots see it" without providing ''in-game proof that they are a group.'' (And yes, I've seen people say that and people have responded in exactly the same way. You're missing the fact that YES, I'm providing PROOF that EXPLICITLY considers them a trio. A trio that is made of Legendaries. How does that "not a Legendary trio make?") [[User:EpicDeino|EpicDeino]] ([[User talk:EpicDeino|talk]]) 05:12, 25 October 2015 (UTC)
:::::All I feel capable of saying anymore is...just wait. Staff fairly plainly don't intend to acknowledge it yet. (Plainly enough, they're waiting for "Pokemon Z", or, as ForceFire said, something in the anime.) So. If there is ''any'' chance anyone can persuade you anymore, I imagine it will have to be staff. Sorry I wasn't able to shed enough light on things. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 06:00, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

{{indent}} Just to intervene. Rumble does group them, but that's all it does. It doesn't shed light on how they're related. The Aura based abilities is really the only concrete thing so far. Currently, and hopefully, the new anime series will probably connect the three or a new game will be revealed in the upcoming months. So, be patient. If you can wait for ORAS to be released, then you can wait for them to release whatever comes next.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 06:10, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

== Pokemon Center Deoxys ==

According to the Pokèmon Center website, Deoxys is a legendary Pokèmon, not a mythical one.
source: http://www.pokemoncenter.com/info/Pokemon_Characters
The legendary Pokèmon list includes Mewtwo, Lugia, Regirock, Latias, Latios, Kyogre, Groudon, Rayquaza, Deoxys, Xerneas, and Yveltal.
The mythical Pokèmon list includes Mew, Jirachi, Darkrai, Shaymin, Arceus, Victini, and Diancie. Note that the image for mythical Pokèmon also shows Genesect.

Because in-game text in ORAS refers to Deoxys as mythical, should we include this as a contradiction, or perhaps as an error? [[User:Pacack|ᗧ•••ᗣ Pacack]] 01:16, 20 November 2015 (UTC)
:I've noted this in the trivia section, just as it was added to Deoxys' page. If anyone objects to this, please let me know. [[User:Pacack|ᗧ•••ᗣ Pacack]] 16:10, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

== Wait, What Happened To The Movie Trivia? ==

It had been there forever. I don't remember the exact wording and stuff, but the general gist went like this. And I updated it to match what we've seen as of XY&Z, as well as M18.

*Ho-Oh is the only Johto Legendary to not be featured in the movies or an anime arc outside of cameos. Lugia was in "The Power Of One", Entei was in "Spell Of The Unown" and Celebi and Suicune were in "Pokémon 4Ever". Raikou was featured in both "The Legend Of Thunder", as well as "Zoroark: Master Of Illusions" alongside Entei, Suicune and Celebi.
**Cresselia and Phione are the only Sinnoh Legendaries to not be featured in the movies or anime arcs. Mesprit, Azelf and Uxie were prominent in the Diamond & Pearl anime, Dialga and Palkia starred alongside Darkrai in "The Rise Of Darkrai", Manaphy starred in "Pokémon Ranger and the Temple of the Sea", Arceus and Heatran starred in "Arceus and the Jewel of Life" and Shaymin and Giratina starred alongside Regigigas in "Giratina and the Sky Warrior". However, Cresselia did have a cameo in "Giratina And The Sky Warrior", and both Legendaries have had standalone anime episodes.
**Volcanion is the only Kalos Legendary to not be featured in a movie or the anime, though it will be in the upcoming 19th movie. Xerneas, Yveltal and Diancie starred in "Diancie and the Cocoon of Destruction", Hoopa starred in "Hoopa and the Clash of Ages", and Zygarde is the focus of the "XY&Z" anime.
**All Kanto, Hoenn and Unova legendaries have had prominent roles in movies or anime arcs.
--[[User:BlackButterfree|BlackButterfree]] ([[User talk:BlackButterfree|talk]]) 20:34, 15 December 2015 (UTC)
:The user who removed it did so because Groudon appeared in M18, though that applied to Groudon's point not the whole trivia. I've only added back Ho-oh since the time taken makes it notable, Gen IV still has five Pokémon left rather than just one while Gen V is still recent.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 04:30, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

== Separating Article ==

Is there a reason we have not separated this article into two separate articles on Legendary and Mythical Pokémon? There has been a clear distinction made at this point, and I see little reason not to make the split. The only potential disagreement I can forsee is on Deoxys, but we could include a footnote in this article and solve that relatively easily.

I can begin drafting the Mythical Pokémon article if there are no objections and if no one else has already. [[User:Pacack| '''Pa'''ᗧ•••ᗣ'''ck''' ]] 17:13, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

:I have created a draft of the Mythical Pokémon page on my userpage. Please look at it and offer criticisms and feel free to edit. I had some trouble with the images, but I believe the current layout is as aesthetically appealing as it can be without breaking anything.

:Note that much of the information is repeated from this article, as it would be in the split itself. If you see any grammatical errors or missing information, please correct it in this article as well, as this was my source. [[User:Pacack| '''Pa'''ᗧ•••ᗣ'''ck''' ]] 18:30, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

::I honestly consider Mythical Pokémon to be a type of legendary Pokémon. So I don't see much reason too.[[User:Flain|Flain]] ([[User talk:Flain|talk]]) 05:33, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

:::We have confirmation against that, though. It has been stated by multiple sources that every Legendary Pokémon would be available between ORAS and X and Y, and yet no Mythical Pokémon were available. If Mythical Pokémon were indeed a subset, then that would not have been the case. [[User:Pacack| '''Pa'''ᗧ•••ᗣ'''ck''' ]] 02:23, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

::::I think it's better to keep the page as it is, most fans would collectively call both groups as Legendary pokemon.[[User:Animaltamer7|Animaltamer7]]03:21, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

:::::That doesn't mean these fans are correct, though. The Mythical term has been consistently used for a very long time at this point, and we are meant to follow official sources, not just the majority. [[User:Pacack| '''Pa'''ᗧ•••ᗣ'''ck''' ]] 22:38, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

::::::I see no reason to split them up. Mythical Pokémon are in fact legendary Pokémon, just extremely rare legendary Pokémon. No one could possibly argue that Arceus is not in fact a legend despite being a myth, for example. --[[User:BlackButterfree|BlackButterfree]] ([[User talk:BlackButterfree|talk]]) 16:35, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

:::::::Note that this page defines Mythical Pokémon as "a related but separate group of Pokémon" from Legendary Pokémon. Mythical Pokémon are '''not''' a subset of Legendary Pokémon, but rather a related group.

:::::::Also note that the capitalization is important in "Legendary Pokémon" and "Mythical Pokémon." Legendary Pokémon can be featured in myths as well as legends, and Mythical Pokémon are sometimes the subject of legends (Arceus included). In that sense, "Legendary" Pokémon can be "mythical" and "Mythical" Pokémon can be "legendary." What ultimately defines a Pokémon as Mythical has to do with said Pokémon's exposure during regular gameplay, whether or not they are revealed with the rest of their generation, and whether they are necessary to complete the Pokédex.

:::::::If you'd like to know more, I'm currently working with another user to complete a draft for the Mythical Pokémon article [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/User:Ash_Pokemaster/Mythical_Pok%C3%A9mon], which we'll present to senior members of the wiki for approval along with a new Legendary Pokémon article. [[User:Pacack| '''Pa'''ᗧ•••ᗣ'''ck''' ]] 21:21, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

::I will continue to cite North American ''Super Smash Bros. for Wii U'' in order to oppose any splitting efforts, despite probably being in the minority on this issue. [[User:Bwburke94|Bwburke94]] ([[User talk:Bwburke94|talk]]) 04:52, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

== Using Deity/Deities derived terms when speaking generically ==

What is wrong with using deity/deities or derived terms when speaking generically (no gender connotations that is)? [[User:Jdogno4|Jdogno4]] ([[User talk:Jdogno4|talk]]) 06:44, 25 January 2016 (UTC)
:Okay I feel this something that needs to be asked, do you even know what a deity is?[[User:Flain|Flain]] ([[User talk:Flain|talk]]) 21:16, 10 May 2016 (UTC)

== Legendary v. Mythical: A Solution for Everyone? ==

I noticed that the page has been split in two, and after reviewing the Legendary and Mythical Pokemon debate, I thought of a solution that might make everyone happy. Some people, including me, come to this page to seek information on ''both'' Legendary and Mythical Pokemon. But there is a notable difference, so that poses a counter argument. I propose that we re-combine the two pages, but rename the page to "Legendary and Mythical Pokemon", while noting the difference between Legendary and Mythical, as well as stating which ones are Legendary and which ones are Mythical in their respective summaries. This would also solve the issue of Legendary Families being split (i.e. Mew Duo, Swords of Justice). Any links to the Legendary or Mythical pages would have to redirect here. If we can all agree on this, I can start recombining them, although I'm new to editing Wikis. [[User:TheRubberGuy|TheRubberGuy]] ([[User talk:TheRubberGuy|talk]]) 21:45, 30 June 2016 (UTC)
:I don't think recombining them is a good idea since the Pokemon Company itself now treats them as separate groups. Given a choice between precision and convenience, I really think we need to prioritize precision, or else we risk implying (or worse, actively providing) false information. Anyway, we already give a link to [[Mythical Pokémon]] in the very second sentence, along with an explanation of why the groups are now treated as separate, so it ought to be plenty clear to readers. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 22:53, 30 June 2016 (UTC)

== Changes to legendary definition ==

Since Sun and Moon came out, which included a legendary Pokémon which evolves (Cosmog -> Cosmoem -> Solgaleo/Lunala), shouldn't we edit that in that legendaries can evolve now? Also, with this change of definition, will Type:Null and Silvally be considered legendary?

Would the Ultra Beasts also be considered legendary, even though some of them you can get more than one?

If these changes happen, I propose a new definition: "A Legendary Pokémon is a Pokémon that is only available in limited amounts in normal gameplay and cannot breed to create more of the same species." --[[User:Celadonkey|--Celadonkey]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 13:17, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
:Type:Null and Silvally are more of a case of artificial pokemon like porygon, where it is possible to make more of them. The Ultra Beasts are kinda mysterious at the moment, making it hard to define whether they belong as legendaries or pokemon from another dimension like unown.[[User:Animaltamer7|Animaltamer7]]13:25, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
::I think we should be thinking about it from a gameplay standpoint, not from a lore one. The fact is there is only one Type:Null available in the game, only one Nihilegos, two Buzzwoles, four Pheromosas, etc. And if you do want to think about it from a lore standpoint - Mewtwo is both artificial and Legendary, and Giratina is a Pokémon that is both legendary and from a different dimension.

::I'm not going to state my personal opinion on the matter but I would like input and/or discussion from mods. --[[User:Celadonkey|--Celadonkey]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 13:35, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
:::I don't have my game on hand right now so I can't cite the exact colors, but if you look in the Alola Pokedex, the Legendaries (Cosmog's evolutionary line, Necrozma, and Zygarde) appear with one background color; the ordinary Pokemon appear with another; and there's a third background color for the Ultra Beasts, Type:Null, Silvally, and the Tapus. I think it's clear that the developers have intended to create a separate group for these that is not Legendary, but until we have an official name for it we probably can't really implement it. In any case, it's amply clear that the developers do not intend these as Legendaries.
:::Gameplay vs. lore should not, in my opinion, be a discussion that even comes into play when Word Of God trumps both. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 14:16, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
::::I noticed it too but always thought both were legendaries. Would this potentially retcon the legendary status of older Pokémon, like Uxie, Tornadus, or Registeel? --[[User:Celadonkey|--Celadonkey]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 14:22, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
:::::Impossible to know unless Pokemon Bank provides some similar visual indication when it's updated in January, since there's no National Dex and those Pokemon don't appear in the Alola Dex. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 16:30, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
::::::That would be ridiculous if they did. Personally I think blue means non-legendary, green(?) is a legendary, and rainbow is a special legendary (the box legends and Mythicals). If a green page means non-legendary too, that would mean the Tapus would not be legendary, which I don't think is up for debate. But it's really the mods' decision. --[[User:Celadonkey|--Celadonkey]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 16:46, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
:::::::How are the Tapus Legendary, much less not even up for debate? Game Freak has conspicuously avoided using the term "Legendary" for them, and now they have a different Pokedex color scheme. If Game Freak's going out of its way to avoid grouping them in as Legendaries, we shouldn't make that assumption even though the rest of fandom is. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 16:51, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
::::::::Okay, that was kind of rude of me. I'm sorry. But the general assumption right is that the Tapus are legendary. But you're right, we shouldn't assume things until the fanbase has a verdict that is agreed upon or until sufficient evidence is brought up. --[[User:Celadonkey|--Celadonkey]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 22:47, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

For now, why don't we use "Guardian deity" and "Ultra Beast" as unique, Legendary-like types of Pokémon? So have Nihilego listed as a Rock/Poison-type Ultra Beast, Tapu Koko as an Electric/Fairy-type Guardian deity, etc. We know that they are unique instances from normal Pokémon, so this is a way we can show that without assuming their Legendary status.

It is worth noting, though, that Cosmog's evolutionary line are Ultra Beasts, too. [[User:Nutter Butter|Nutter Butter]] ([[User talk:Nutter Butter|talk]]) 21:24, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
: I do like this option. Keeping it vague is really the only way to please everyone. --[[User:Celadonkey|--Celadonkey]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 22:38, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
:Here's my two cents. The easiest way to determine "Legendary"/"Mythical" is whether or not they're banned in certain game modes, in the case of Sun and Moon this would be the Battle Royal and Battle Tree. In Gen VII, Cosmog, Cosmoem, Solgaleo, Lunala, and Necrozma ''are'' banned. The Ultra Beasts are not. And I haven't tested, but it seems the Guardian deities are not. This seems to suggest that the deities and UBs are not legends, but some other classification. [[User:Schiffy|I don't even give a Schif]] ([[User talk:Schiffy|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Schiffy|Contribs]]) 22:31, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
::The Legendary Beasts, Golems, Eon Duo, Pixies, and the like are not banned. I really think it should be up to the fans to decide, as most (cough cough) things are done here. --[[User:Celadonkey|--Celadonkey]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 22:36, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
:::We only "decide" if there's nothing canonical to go by. If canon exists, we can't and won't override it with something uncanonical. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 06:03, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
::::But the "canon" is debatable. The only reasons you've given that they are not legendary are an assumption about PokeDex colors and the lack of official material calling them legendary.
::::It is undeniable that they belong to a unique and special group. Let's leave it at that, and preferably go with my idea :P, until there's official word. [[User:Nutter Butter|Nutter Butter]] ([[User talk:Nutter Butter|talk]]) 06:16, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
:::::Yes, I agree with your idea; I wasn't rebutting you, I was rebutting Celadonkey. Given the situation, not committing one way or the other on their Legendary status until Game Freak classifies them more specifically is probably best. Or at least, not committing one way or the other until Bulba staff make an executive decision on the matter. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 06:26, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
::::::[http://www.pokemon.com/us/pokemon-news/battle-today-using-the-2017-pokemon-vg-championships-format/ This article] states that no Legendary or Mythical Pokémon are legal in VGC 2017. The tapu and Ultra Beasts are both legal, whereas Cosmog and its evolutions as well as Zygarde are not. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 09:50, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
:::::::Well, it says "Mythical and some Legendary Pokémon are not allowed," so that still doesn't really give evidence as to the Legendary status of any Pokémon that's allowed, at least as far as I can tell... [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 17:56, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
::::::::Good catch! This is an issue that will require some thinking. We should probably wait a bit but that probably means there are some legendaries that are allowed. Probably. --[[User:Celadonkey|--Celadonkey]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 18:04, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
:::::::::Oh, they actually updated that article. When I saw it, it read "''No Mythical or Legendary Pokémon are allowed''". [http://archive.is/tIguO I archived the Google Cache as proof]. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 18:13, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
::::::::::Also a good catch! I thought it said that too but wasn't sure. Wonder what this means. --[[User:Celadonkey|--Celadonkey]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 18:33, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
:::::::::::My gut instinct is that this indicates Nintendo itself (or at least, NOA) isn't sure which Pokémon Game Freak did and didn't intend to be Legendary. If they're still hashing that out among the corporate entities, then caution certainly seems to be the best course of action for us at the moment. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 18:41, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
::::::::::::I agree. Until anything else comes up, we leave everything vague. --[[User:Celadonkey|--Celadonkey]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 18:46, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
:It's worth noting that the GTS in Sun and Moon has the option to filter out requests for "Mythical and Legendary Pokémon". I don't have the Pokémon in my Pokédex to check myself, but I'm told that enabling this option also excludes Ultra Beasts, the tapus, and Type: Null/Silvally. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 01:10, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
::Interesting. So, what will the verdict be? Personally, I think we should wait a bit but I would like to see some of these Pokémon as legendary. Just my opinion though. --[[User:Celadonkey|--Celadonkey]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 02:52, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
So does this mean we now have new Pokemon class and groups just like the Legendary and Mythical? It sounds like those Pokemon are in their own group.--[[User:Jacob9594|Jacob Kogan]] ([[User talk:Jacob9594|talk]]) 01:14, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
:That especially I'd hold off until. It's kind of out of the blue to create a new group like that and I wouldn't unless, or maybe ''even'', the Pokémon in question are very out of the ordinary. And even so, it's up to the mods. --[[User:Celadonkey|--Celadonkey]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 02:52, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
:::Agreed, we should wait until official sources have directly accepted the UBs & Tapus as Legendaries or not.[[User:Animaltamer7|Animaltamer7]]03:52, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
Thats Pokemon for you, so many mystery and theories that Nintendo loves to give us.--[[User:Jacob9594|Jacob Kogan]] ([[User talk:Jacob9594|talk]]) 03:54, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

Hmm, yet site like Serebii and Pokemon Wiki classified them as Legendaries. I wonder why?--[[User:Jacob9594|Jacob Kogan]] ([[User talk:Jacob9594|talk]]) 18:47, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
:Those are fan sites. It's very easy for them to be wrong. You shouldn't take what they say as truth unless there's proof. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 20:39, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

In the datamine, the Tapus and Ultra Beasts were listed as being Legendaries, albeit placed in the same listings as the Legendaries that are allowed to be used in battle facilities. I believe they were referred to in the code as being sublegends? Either way, SciresM has pictures of both lists up on his Twitter. [[User:Azureprism|Azureprism]] ([[User talk:Azureprism|talk]]) 21:38, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

Interesting now that I think about it, some Legendary are allowed in battle facilities, same goes for Snivally. Hmm some maple are Hearten, , Regigigas, and Cresselia for example. a friend of ym optioned out in his own words "It's been like that since Gen 3. Pokemon with stats of 600 or higher are always banned from a battle facility, unless the 600 stats are from Psudo-Legendaries like Dragonite." There some exception to it. And the fact you can only encounter one in the wild (Even thought some Ultra Beats come in groups of 4), there is a possibility they are indeed and without a doubt Legendaries or Sub-Legendaries as Azureprism pointed out. Well, anything can happen, but I will leave up to you guys on your take of this.--[[User:Jacob9594|Jacob Kogan]] ([[User talk:Jacob9594|talk]]) 21:52, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
:Could you link that? I don't believe you're wrong but I wouldn't like to see. --[[User:Celadonkey|--Celadonkey]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 23:59, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
::The Pokémon that are banned from battle facilities are [[Special Pokémon]] and [[Mythical Pokémon]] (whether Mythical Pokémon are Special Pokémon seems to be unclear). While only Legendary (and possibly Mythical) Pokémon can be Special Pokémon, not being a Special Pokémon has no bearing on whether a Pokémon is a Legendary Pokémon. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 01:18, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

And yet some tournament allowed the sue of Special and Mythical?--[[User:Jacob9594|Jacob Kogan]] ([[User talk:Jacob9594|talk]]) 01:52, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
:Some special online competitions have allowed Mythical Pokémon (and Special Pokémon), and some official tournaments and VGC formats allow Special Pokémon. I'm not sure what your point is. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 02:35, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

Yeah sorry about that, Any Those Pokemon, Ultra Beats, Tapy, and the Stythetic Pokemon are the only Pokemon tha that the special abckgorudn and glitter thing in their Pokedex number like Zyagrd for example. Anyway. And if what Azureprism said is true, should they be counted as Legendaries or another class of Legendary Pokemon like the Myhtical (Ultra Beats, Tapu, Type: Null and Snilvally?

That's what this discussion was about in the first place. [[User:TechSkylander1518|TechSkylander1518]] ([[User talk:TechSkylander1518|talk]]) 02:48, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

Indeed, hmm one I notice that they share with Legendaries is most of them you can only get one per save file, they were mention in legends in the past (The exception being the Synthetic Pokémon), extremely rare and powerful, unique powers. they have roles in Alola Region Lore and affecting it as seen with he Totem Pokemon, the some of them are protectors like the Swords of Justice, the Synthetic Pokémon was created just like Mewtwo and Gensect to be the Ultimate Weapon (For Ultra Beats) and the fact it was based on different types of Pokemon (Including Arecus), all of them can't breed and ar win the Undiscovered Egg Group as the other Legendaries, they are not easy to catch. My point is hopefully to help understand that these Poekmona re indeed Legendaries and they share many trait and heights common or associated with Legendaries and may possibly be in their own unique class. I hope this help the discussion. This my best way to help explain heir status as Legendaries or not. Hope you guys understand.--[[User:Jacob9594|Jacob Kogan]] ([[User talk:Jacob9594|talk]]) 03:06, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
:TechSkylander1518: It's worth noting that there are three different Pokédex backgrounds: The one used by Legendary and Mythical Pokémon; the one used by Ultra Beasts, the tapus, and Type: Null/Silvally; and the one used by everything else. If anything, I would say that the Pokédex indicates they aren't Legendary (but I think the GTS indicating that they are takes priority). --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 03:26, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
::Jacob Kogan: With legendaries, you can only ''catch'' one per save file. You can obtain more by transferring Pokemon or by receiving a Mystery Gift. Furthermore, the reason you can only catch one is generally because there's supposed to only be one in the world-the Ultra Beasts and Synthetic Pokemon have all clearly shown there are more than one. (except, perhaps, Guzzlord) And you can catch more than one of UBs 2-4 per save file. And there are some Pokemon that you can only get one of in a game without breeding-would you consider fossil Pokemon, starters, or Snorlax to be legendaries? The Ultra Beasts are not mentioned in legends. I'm puzzled by your wording on "the exception being the Synthetic Pokemon". You tend to use that term to refer to Silvally and Type: Null, but they're not confirmed to be legendaries, you can't say they're the exception if we don't even know that rules relates to them. It is true that Mewtwo and Genesect were not mentioned in legends, however. Porygon can also change its type, and was created by human beings. That doesn't make it a legendary. A low catch rate and an Undiscovered Egg Group does ''not'' make a Pokemon a legendary. The Synthetic Pokemon aren't even caught, they're a gift. Again, not bringing this up to prove that they are or aren't legendaries, just to show--[[User:Jacob9594|Jacob Kogan]] ([[User talk:Jacob9594|talk]]) 05:39, 4 December 2016 (UTC) that it's not something that will be solved through debate; we need official information. (''I had written this up before I saw SnorlaxMonster's reply-it becomes irrelevant pretty fast, I'm sorry'')

::SnorlaxMonster: I have noticed the different background, I've currently been taking that to mean that they are in a different class that might or might not be somehow related to Legendaries, but if the GTS calls them Legendaries, that definitely makes things a lot easier, both with wondering whether or not they are and with the possibility of a new classification. (I'm told I don't always get my point across clearly, so I'd like to clarify just in case-I'm not trying to act like I should be the one with the final say on their status, I'm just trying to say that I understand and agree with the GTS proving they are Legendaries) [[User:TechSkylander1518|TechSkylander1518]] ([[User talk:TechSkylander1518|talk]]) 03:35, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

So does this mean we finally solve it with the Ultra Beasts, Tapus, Type: Null and Silvally?--[[User:Jacob9594|Jacob Kogan]] ([[User talk:Jacob9594|talk]]) 05:16, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

I believe it does-we have official evidence, and SnorlaxMonster is a staff member, so they have enough authority to decide. (I'd add it in myself, but I'm not certain of everything necessary to make the changes-obviously there's the link to the Legendary Pokemon page on their pages, but I'm sure there's a lot more needed) [[User:TechSkylander1518|TechSkylander1518]] ([[User talk:TechSkylander1518|talk]]) 05:38, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

Agree Tech, at last this debate has finally been settled--[[User:Jacob9594|Jacob Kogan]] ([[User talk:Jacob9594|talk]]) 05:40, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

:The staff have decided that since the games don't explicitly refer to these Pokémon as Legendary, they should not be referred to as Legendary until and if an official source explicitly describes them as such. --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 06:32, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

::Since SnorlaxMonster brought up the GTS, I'd like to share my two cents! He said that he can't confirm with certainty, but that he had been told that the tapu, Type: Null, Silvally and the Ultra Beasts were counted. After testing it, I can confirm this; there were many requests for them when I checked in-game with Legendaries and Mythicals included, and none remained when I said to exclude them. I can also confirm that it wasn't simply a matter of their having been traded already, as they reappeared when I set it to include them again. Again: ''confirming that the game explicitly includes them as Legendary or Mythical Pokémon for that purpose!'' Make of that what you will; I'm not going to say any more regardless, as it's been made clear that this is the staff's decision and I will contribute facts but not say what to do with them. XP [[User:EpicDeino|EpicDeino]] ([[User talk:EpicDeino|talk]]) 04:41, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

:::It's interesting that canon is being considered here given the large amounts of evidence that do exist in the canon for something like, say, Zygarde's very obvious trio status, end up being ignored in favour of conjecture. [[User:BeforeJam|BeforeJam]] ([[User talk:BeforeJam|talk]]) 15:19, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

== Tapu ==

The Tapu have unique battle themes, are fought late in the game, can only be encountered once, are pivotal to the story, are high leveled, are difficult-ish to catch, and have BSTs that are in the same general range as most legendaries. Wouldn't they qualify as legendary? {{unsigned|ChampionBlue}}
:That's a debate that was just finished right above this section. [[User:TechSkylander1518|TechSkylander1518]] ([[User talk:TechSkylander1518|talk]]) 05:38, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

Pretty much TechSkylnader --[[User:Jacob9594|Jacob Kogan]] ([[User talk:Jacob9594|talk]]) 05:39, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
:None of the things listed by ChampionBlue are a reason to consider the tapu to be Legendary. Rotom meets a number of those conditions in Diamond and Pearl, for example. BSTs are unrelated to whether or not a Pokémon is Legendary (see Cosmog, for example). {{p|Oricorio}} has the same catch rate as {{p|Lunala}}, and {{p|Beldum}}'s is incredibly low.
:Which Pokémon are Legendary is solely determined by which Pokémon have been officially stated to be. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 06:09, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

::Also, the Tapus were listed under normal Pokemon by Sun and Moon official site. Only Solgaleo and Lunala (which were the only legendaries revealed pre release) were listed under the 'Legendary' section. If Tapus were legendary, they too would've been listed under 'Legendary' section. [[User:PkmnTrainerV|The legendary PkmnTrainerV is Here!]] ([[User talk:PkmnTrainerV|talk]]) 08:00, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
:::I wanted to use the official site earlier, but currently the [http://www.pokemon-sunmoon.com/en-us/pokemon/ English site] isn't listing either Cosmog or Zygarde as Legendary Pokémon either. The [http://www.pokemon.co.jp/ex/sun_moon/pokemon/ Japanese] and [http://www.pokemon-sunmoon-cn.com/tc/pokemon/ Chinese] sites give the tapu their own section (so I wouldn't take them not being in the Legendary section as evidence), but also don't call Cosmog a Legendary Pokémon. The [http://pokemonkorea.co.kr/sun_moon/pokemon Korean site] doesn't call either Cosmog or Zygarde Legendary, but also doesn't give Mythical Pokémon their own section. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 08:14, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
::: Even Ultra Beats were not considered Pokemon... [[User:E9310103838|E9310103838]] ([[User talk:E9310103838|talk]]) 09:23, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
::::@SnorlaxMonster, pretty much what I was going to type.[[User:Animaltamer7|Animaltamer7]]09:24, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
:::::The official site never said they ''weren't'' Pokémon, but it never said they were either. Until the game was released (or perhaps more accurately, until the game leaked), we didn't know whether or not they were Pokémon. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 09:25, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
::::::In the GTS, the ultra beasts and tapu WILL NOT BE SHOWN if we choose not to include legendary and mystical pokemon in the option. -[[User:Pokeant|Pokeant]] ([[User talk:Pokeant|talk]]) 15:33, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
:::::::I just looked at this myself and can second this. On top of that, Type: Null and Silvally won't be shown either if you choose not to include Legendary and Mythical Pokemon in the requests from other Trainers. Does this count as a piece of evidence for the Tapus, Ultra Beasts, and Type: Null line being Legendaries? [[User:Nintendocan|Nintendocan]] ([[User talk:Nintendocan|talk]]) 02:16, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
::::::::For the moment, I see no harm in adding the Tapus to the Legendary section. They can always be taken back out if their classification proves to be incorrect. [[User:UB00|UB00]] ([[User talk:UB00|talk]]) 07:20, 17 December 2016 (UTC)
:::::::::That's not how we operate. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 07:51, 17 December 2016 (UTC)
::::::::::In that case, we would best be served by making a "disputed Legendaries" subsection for the time being, as mentioned below. [[User:UB00|UB00]] ([[User talk:UB00|talk]]) 06:17, 18 December 2016 (UTC)
:::::::::::That was decided against as seen below - for a "disputed Legendaries" section we'd need a reason not to believe they are other than it wasn't stated against. --[[User:Celadonkey|--Celadonkey]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 13:39, 18 December 2016 (UTC)
::::::::::::I would declare the Tapus legendaries for the reasons stated above plus the fact that when you try to bring up their QR code it says "this is a special pokemon there is no QR code" --[[User:Gingerwithasoul|Gingerwithasoul]] ([[User talk:Gingerwithasoul|talk]]) 09:15, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
:::::::::::::It has never been officially stated that Pokémon that do not provide QR Codes in the Pokédex are Legendary. In fact, Magearna does not provide one and is not Legendary (being Mythical instead). --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 09:52, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
:::::::::::::: here's some more evidence, the Tapus match Bulbapedia's definition of legendary pokemon "Legendary Pokémon are a group of incredibly rare and often very powerful Pokémon, generally featured prominently in the legends and myths of the Pokémon world." not to mention the game refers to them as "special pokemon" like every other legendary pokemon --[[User:Gingerwithasoul|Gingerwithasoul]] ([[User talk:Gingerwithasoul|talk]]) 10:02, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::As I just mentioned, in the context of lacking a QR Code in the Pokédex, "special Pokémon" is not exclusively applied to Legendary Pokémon—it is also used to describe Mythical Pokémon (as well as the 3 sets of Pokémon whose Legendary status is unclear). Bulbapedia's wording is a description, not a definition; Legendary Pokémon are defined by which Pokémon have been officially referred to as Legendary Pokémon. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 10:05, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
::::::::::::::::So what you're saying is that "special pokemon" are either legendaries or mythicals, and since mythicals can only be obtained via events and the Tapus
::::::::::::::::can be caught in-game that means that the Tapus are legendaries right? [[User:Gingerwithasoul|Gingerwithasoul]] ([[User talk:Gingerwithasoul|talk]]) 10:23, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
{{indent}}The definitions are fuzzy, and there's been exceptions in the past. It's not really enough to say "it has features of previous legendaries". --[[User:Celadonkey|Celad]][[User_talk:Celadonkey|onkey]] 12:26, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
:No, I'm saying that the term "special Pokémon" is never defined in this context. There's no reason to assume that only Legendary and Mythical Pokémon qualify as special Pokémon in the context of lacking QR Codes in the Pokédex. There is another entirely separate usage of the term special Pokémon (which is also the predominant usage), but it contradicts the usage in the context of QR Codes in the Pokédex so it would only serve as a distraction to discuss it. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 23:21, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
::Maybe the qr argument doesn't stand on its own but with all the other evidence like the fact they play a significant role in the main storyline, they can only be captured once, they cannot breed and they have their own dedicated catching location it seems pretty reasonable to assume that they are legendaries, there's so much evidence for them being legendaries and so little against and your main argument being that since Game Freak hasn't specifically said so therefore all the evidence is null is extremely illogical. [[User:Gingerwithasoul|Gingerwithasoul]] ([[User talk:Gingerwithasoul|talk]]) 03:46, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
:::Waiting for official confirmation is how things work here. We wait for them to announce whether they're legendary or not. We're not going to assume, only to have Game Freak come out and say "lol nope, they're just normal Pokémon".--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 03:50, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
::::that argument is a huge appeal to tradition, just because something always happens doesn't mean that it's the right way. Also, if that's the case then I would be interested in knowing when they said that the Regis are definitely legendaries or the Lake Guardians or any other group of legendaries [[User:Gingerwithasoul|Gingerwithasoul]] ([[User talk:Gingerwithasoul|talk]]) 04:28, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
:::::This aspect is not up for any sort of argument or discussion: we do not ''assume''. Period.
:::::Something like [http://web.archive.org/web/20160303173331/http://www.pokemon.com/us/pokemon-news/deposit-three-solid-pokemon-with-pokemon-bank/ the Bank HA Regi announcement] is the easiest reference I know, but I'm sure there are a number of others. It's not remotely worth finding similar references for anything else beyond that "proof of concept", because this discussion is about not about all those others. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 04:41, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
::::::did you really just assume that these sources exist after we were told we're not allowed to assume? if you're going to debate please be consistent [[User:Gingerwithasoul|Gingerwithasoul]] ([[User talk:Gingerwithasoul|talk]]) 04:48, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
:::::::Your questioning of '''every other Legendary Pokemon's status'''—including your reaction immediately above—is nothing but a tactic of distraction. It's not worth a substantive response. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 04:53, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
::::::::I actually already did look for confirmation of the status of every Legendary and Mythical Pokémon when we were splitting Mythical Pokémon from this article. You can find sources for every single Legendary and Mythical Pokémon (that existed in Gen VI) [[Talk:Legendary Pokémon/Archive2#Mythical and Legendary classification with sources|here]]. (Note that some of the links, specifically the pokemonblackwhite.com links, are now no longer available, so you'll need to use Wayback Machine or a similar service to access them.) --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 07:23, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

== Disputed legendaries section ==

There's a lot of debate on Legendary status of newly introduced [[Guardian deities]], [[Ultra Beast]]s and {{p|Type: Null}}/{{p|Silvally}} (two sections above et all) as well the old debate on {{p|Manaphy}} and {{p|Phione}}. Do you think it'd be a good idea to add a section describing that dispute as well as explaining the stance Bulbapedia has taken on the subject? That would help to avoid potential debates and edit wars. [[Phione_(Pokémon)#Mythical_status|Phione Trivia section]] is an example of how it could look like. — ∀<tt>[[User:ЫъГЬ|ЫъГЬ]] ∃[[User_talk:ЫъГЬ|Talk page]]</tt> 13:55, 13 December 2016 (UTC)

Makes perfect sense to me, as this debate is till going, I sure the Admins will also be willing tog having a disputing Pokemon page, soundalike a good idea.--[[User:Jacob9594|Jacob Kogan]] ([[User talk:Jacob9594|talk]]) 13:57, 13 December 2016 (UTC)
:I would personally keep it under discussion, as this isn't a long standing debate like Phione. It'll most likely be confirmed within the next month or so considering it is already nearly confirmed. Also, Jacob: try to use colons before your posts so that they are staircased - one more than the previous posts.--[[User:Celadonkey|--Celadonkey]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 14:05, 13 December 2016 (UTC)

Got it Celadoneky. I will be sure to remember that. --[[User:Jacob9594|Jacob Kogan]] ([[User talk:Jacob9594|talk]]) 14:36, 13 December 2016 (UTC)
:Phione actually has evidence for and evidence against listed. To create such a section here would require evidence against them being Legendary Pokémon—what evidence would that be? --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 14:53, 13 December 2016 (UTC)
::But didn't the discussion above end with the conclusion they are not? With the major argument being '''Official site does not explicitly names them as such'''. Or did you mean the opposite? The argument that supports their status as Legendary Pokemon would be the '''GTS search filter'''. — ∀<tt>[[User:ЫъГЬ|ЫъГЬ]] ∃[[User_talk:ЫъГЬ|Talk page]]</tt>
:::Official site not explicitly naming them as such is a lack of evidence for, not evidence against. I already pointed out above why the official site cannot currently be relied upon to definitively say something isn't Legendary yet (although once it is properly updated we should be able to). --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 11:29, 14 December 2016 (UTC)

However, when Guardian deities, Ultra Beasts, and Type: Null/Silvally register in the Pokedex, they will not show up as legendary Pokémon. So they are still some degree of controversy as legendary Pokémon, I think. [[User:E9310103838|E9310103838]] ([[User talk:E9310103838|talk]]) 13:50, 14 December 2016 (UTC)
:Again, that's a lack of evidence for, not evidence against. The point is is that it isn't an established controversy, like Phione. --[[User:Celadonkey|--Celadonkey]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 14:01, 14 December 2016 (UTC)
::Additionally, the message Rotom Pokédex gives for all of them is a special message. If it just gave a generic message, I think that would be reasonable evidence against. Instead, it has a special message that is used instead of the Legendary Pokémon message. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 09:22, 15 December 2016 (UTC)
:::So the game is undeniably, definititively stating that they are all legendary. May I add them to the page now? [[User:Nutter Butter|Nutter Butter]] ([[User talk:Nutter Butter|talk]]) 00:44, 16 December 2016 (UTC)
::::I'd say so, but we'd have to wait for mod approval, as sometimes they say something completely different than expected. --[[User:Celadonkey|--Celadonkey]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 01:23, 16 December 2016 (UTC)
:::::According to Abcboy, a Bulbapedia {{bp|Staff|Administrator}}, two sections above: ''The staff have decided that since the games don't explicitly refer to these Pokémon as Legendary, they should not be referred to as Legendary until and if an official source explicitly describes them as such.'' Since this is the most recent official word from the staff as a whole, that's what we need to follow until they reconsider, if/when they do. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 06:03, 16 December 2016 (UTC)
::::::If we're following that, we now have an official source stating that they are legendary (the GTS), so it can be added. [[User:Nutter Butter|Nutter Butter]] ([[User talk:Nutter Butter|talk]]) 03:11, 17 December 2016 (UTC)
:::::::The GTS excludes Legendaries and Mythicals, but does not otherwise distinguish those groups. We will continue to wait for a source that clearly gives these Pokemon only one of those labels.
:::::::(I'd like to suggest that, going forward, anyone who thinks they have proof and is itching to make edits try contacting a {{bp|staff}} member directly if there's no particular response here. Thanks.) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 05:43, 17 December 2016 (UTC)

==Sub-legendaries==

I've heard on the internet that the Tapus, Nullvally, and Ultra Beasts are included as a classification known as sub-legendaries in the game's code. What is interesting is that the "lesser trios" (i.e. Musketeers, Birds), as well as other minor legendaries such as the Latis and Heatran are grouped alongside them as sub-legendaries. Can someone confirm this for me, and in that case does this call for a massive overhaul to the legendary page? Or should we wait till January for Pokebank to finally make things clear?--[[User:Geektreecko|Geektreecko]] ([[User talk:Geektreecko|talk]]) 03:23, 19 December 2016 (UTC)
:Outside of game mechanics, details obtained by rooting around in the game's code are not considered an official source. I'm not sure exactly the rationale for this, but edits have been reverted before for it. [[User:Xolroc|Xolroc]] ([[User talk:Xolroc|talk]]) 03:30, 19 December 2016 (UTC)
:: Oh! In that case, is the National Dex considered an official source? Assuming that when released it follows the format of the SM dex as well as the game code, it will likely group this generation's disputed legends and previous generations' minor legends under the green page background. Would that provide enough evidence to create a new grouping called sub-legends, and also give a conclusion as to the disputed legends' identity?--[[User:Geektreecko|Geektreecko]] ([[User talk:Geektreecko|talk]]) 03:47, 19 December 2016 (UTC)
:::See [[Talk:Ultra Beast#Ultra Beast connection to Legendary|this talk page section]] for my response to this rumor. As for the Pokédex, as you can tell when you catch [[Island Scan]] Pokémon, the National Pokédex just isn't in the game. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 03:58, 19 December 2016 (UTC)
::::Not sure if it's been officially confirmed, but I seem to recall hearing that the national dex is going to be released along with the pokemon bank update. Don't know if you can really say it just isn't in the game--seems more like the way to unlock it just doesn't exist yet! [[User:Xolroc|Xolroc]] ([[User talk:Xolroc|talk]]) 04:10, 19 December 2016 (UTC)
:::::The National Pokédex will be in Pokémon Bank itself, rather than Pokémon Sun and Moon (based on officially announced information and the game data). For example, the Pokédex sprites used for Alola Pokédex Pokémon simply don't exist for non-Alola Pokédex Pokémon. ---[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 04:38, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

== Legendary Disputes Part X ==

The Tapus, UBs, and Type: Null Line, are still in dispute - whether it may be game mechanic or folklore factors. Those two factors do prove that they are though. Folklore of course, undeniably speak of the Tapus and UBs as legends. Type: Null and Sillvally's stature may be postulated with the existence of the Cosmog Line, such that they can perform evolution, and Mewtwo, that they are artificially made. The game's code itself also prove it though. But let me say first that the non-prohibition of these Pokémon in Battle Institutions are very lousy proofs, since multiple minor legendaries are allowed. But one thing's for sure. The GTS. It has a systematic sieve, an option to filter out Legends and Mythicals. In reason: Only Legendaries and Mythicals can be filtered out of the GTS. The Tapus, UBs, the Type: Null Line can be filtered out in the GTS. Therefore, these are Legendary Pokémon. [[User:Phiraptor28|Phiraptor28]] ([[User talk:Phiraptor28|talk]]) 18:19, 26 December 2016 (UTC)
:Your logic is faulty, and this has already been addressed on this very same page. The GTS filter means they are either Legendaries or Mythicals, but we don't know which. We won't be labeling them as one or the other until they have been officially labeled so we know which label to use. (You can see a staff member, Tiddlywinks, say this ''exact same thing'' in the last comment of the subheader "Disputed legendaries section" above, timestamped 05:43, 17 December 2016.) [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 18:38, 26 December 2016 (UTC)
We have to wait for Nintendo to confirm it--[[User:Jacob9594|Jacob Kogan]] ([[User talk:Jacob9594|talk]]) 18:44, 26 December 2016 (UTC)
:I hate to be a bother, but you're missing the colons I had told you about earlier... ----[[User:Celadonkey|Celadonkey]] 19:53, 26 December 2016 (UTC)
::"The GTS filter means they are either Legendaries or Mythicals, but we don't know which"—well, they're obviously not Mythicals, so, by using the process of elemination, we can conclude that they must be Legendaries. Therefore, the GTS should be enough to prove that they are Legendaries; however, it seems like the staff wants to wait for official confirmation, which I can understand, even if I disagree. But, I haven't found any official confirmation for {{p|Marshadow}} either, so by that logic, shouldn't we delete that article? —[[User:MartinZ|MartinZ]] ([[User talk:MartinZ|talk]]) 20:08, 11 January 2017 (UTC)
:::Marshadow is in the games. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 21:48, 11 January 2017 (UTC)
::::I think MartinZ's point was that they haven't been officially confirmed to exist. IIRC, in Gen VI, we didn't have pages for Diancie, Hoopa, or Volcanion until they were announced. ----[[User:Celadonkey|Celadonkey]] 01:10, 12 January 2017 (UTC)
:::::Per [[Talk:Marshadow (Pokémon)#Officially Revealed?]], that's because at that time, datamining for the 3DS wasn't yet verifiable by the staff, so it was unknown whether those Pokemon actually existed or were being faked. The staff are now able to verify 3DS datamining, so Marshadow has its own page because it's confirmed to exist in the Sun and Moon data. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 01:39, 12 January 2017 (UTC)

== Necrozma ==
Should we state that it is currently unconfirmed if Necrozma forms a group with Solgaleo and Lunala, much like with Zygarde? There is a lot of evidence to indicate a relation between the three, but aside from the file name for Necrozma's picture (which itself is somewhat vague) nothing has been officially confirmed yet. --[[User:Geektreecko|Geektreecko]] ([[User talk:Geektreecko|talk]]) 00:33, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

:Agreed, it might turn out like with Zygarde where they might probably never officially state that their a trio. [[User:Animaltamer7|Animaltamer7]]08:34, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
::I think that it's unnecessary and unencyclopedic to state that something is not known, the fact that it says nothing here should suffice that we simply don't know. --[[User:Raltseye|Raltseye]] [[User talk:Raltseye|prata med mej]] 11:24, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
:::I was thinking about the unseen tag like the one for zygarde.[[User:Animaltamer7|Animaltamer7]]11:40, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

== Shiny backgrounds in Pokémon Bank ==

Since Pokémon Bank is out, I got my Pokémon registered in the National Dex within, and apparently there's shiny backgrounds on the following Pokémon. I split them between Legendary and Mythical for readability, but they are all in a similar style:

* Legendary: Lugia, Ho-Oh, Kyogre, Groudon, Rayquaza, Dialga, Palkia, Giratina, Reshiram, Zekrom, Kyurem, Xerneas, Yveltal, Zygarde, Cosmog, Cosmoem, Solgaleo, Lunala, Necrozma.

* Mythical: Mew, Celebi, Jirachi, Deoxys, Manaphy, Darkrai, Shaymin, Arceus, Victini, Keldeo, Meloetta, Genesect, Diancie, Hoopa, Volcanion, Magearna.

What's notable here is that the Legendary are all Special Pokémon, but Mewtwo is the only Special Pokémon without a shiny background. Of the Mythicals, Phione doesn't have the shiny background, and I don't have a Marshadow to check. I'm not sure how this affects the definition of Special Pokémon, Legendaries, and Mythicals, but it's interesting that they singled out these Pokémon from the rest.{{unsigned|RHeegaard}}

:Whoops, just noticed I forgot to sign my comment above! - [[User:RHeegaard|RHeegaard]] ([[User talk:RHeegaard|talk]]) 03:54, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
::And all the other legendary Pokémon get... nothing. But while this doesn't help to prove or disprove the Tapus' or the Ultra Beasts' legendary status, it could be another Evidence Against Phione. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celadonkey]] 13:00, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
:::I don't have Pokemon Bank, so for clarification, may I ask: what color are the backgrounds of all of the above Pokemon? And what color are the backgrounds of all the other Legendaries that aren't listed (and Phione)? Are ''all'' of them yellow{{tt|*|and the only distinguishing thing between them are sparkles vs. a solid yellow background}}, or are the above ones yellow and the unlisted ones green? If the latter, that may be decisive evidence that the background color indicates Special/non-Special, and that the tapus, Type:Null, and UBs are non-Special but Legendary. If the unlisted ones are yellow as well, though, the plot thickens and the green background still has no obvious explanation. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 16:34, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
::::All Pokémon RHeegard named have a shine under their picture. All other legendary Pokémon have nothing to differentiate them from regular Pokémon. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celad]][[User_talk:Celadonkey|onkey]] 16:44, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
:::::So all other Legendaries have ''blue'' backgrounds?!? That makes even less sense... [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 16:49, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
::::::The color of the background corresponds to the Pokémon's types. Mythical and Special Legendary Pokémon (except Mewtwo and Phione) also have a shine effect on the background. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 16:51, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
:::::::OK, so the backgrounds in Bank have no correspondence to the backgrounds in Sun/Moon? [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 16:52, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
::::::::Yeah, it looks completely different. Gives us nearly no info at all :T --[[User:Celadonkey|Celad]][[User_talk:Celadonkey|onkey]] 16:54, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
:::::::::Also, if you missed it, RHeegard's distinction between Legendary and Mythical is his own - Pokebank's Dex doesn't show a difference between them. [[User:Plasma|Plasma]] ([[User talk:Plasma|talk]]) 22:43, 26 January 2017 (UTC)
:What's most surprising is that Mewtwo does not have a shine background. Overall though, it implies that Gamefreak is pretty serious about plans to make Legendaries and Sub/Semi-Legendaries separate categories.[[User:Plasma|Plasma]] ([[User talk:Plasma|talk]]) 22:43, 26 January 2017 (UTC)
::I don't think I like that, especially as someone who still considers Mythicals Legendary. ----[[User:Celadonkey|Celad]][[User_talk:Celadonkey|onkey]] 01:12, 27 January 2017 (UTC)

== Cosmog line ==

Should we have a page for the Cosmog line? We have a page for every other legendary group. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celad]][[User_talk:Celadonkey|onkey]] 18:58, 5 February 2017 (UTC)
:Just make the duo page and add notes there: [[Game mascot#Generation VII]]. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 19:01, 5 February 2017 (UTC)

== Type:Null, UB's, and Tapus Revisited ==

The official Pokémon site says that Mythical and '''Some''' Legendaries are not allowed in VGC. Thus, there are some Legendary Pokémon that ARE allowed, but all Mythical Pokémon are NOT allowed. [http://www.pokemon.com/us/pokemon-news/battle-today-using-the-2017-pokemon-vg-championships-format/]

We have already determined that Type:Null/Silvally, UB's, and the Tapus are either Mythical or Legendary.

They are allowed in VGC, which rules out them being Mythical. By process of elimination, they're legendary. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celad]][[User_talk:Celadonkey|onkey]] 20:17, 23 February 2017 (UTC)
:That doesn't confirm anything. [[User:Ataro|Ataro]] ([[User talk:Ataro|talk]]) 20:58, 23 February 2017 (UTC)
::It seems quite obvious to me, but you're the staff :v could you explain? --[[User:Celadonkey|Celad]][[User_talk:Celadonkey|onkey]] 21:07, 23 February 2017 (UTC)
:::Indeed those two facts make all of them objectively ''legendaries'', period <s>(unfortunately logical thinking is not the strongest point of everyone here)</s>. The only possible counterargument here is that at least one those facts is incorrect, and even in that case, it should be justified for us to trust official statements as long as we can't prove they're false. Finally, I hope personal biases like "Type: Null just ''can't'' be a legendary! GTS ''must'' be lying!" aren't stalling this...--'''[[User:Dennou Zenshi|電禅]][[User talk:Dennou Zenshi|Den Zen]]''' 22:25, 23 February 2017 (UTC)
::::So is it ok to say that they're legendary now? I don't want to edit anything w/o confirmation from a mod. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celad]][[User_talk:Celadonkey|onkey]] 22:30, 23 February 2017 (UTC)
:::::FWIW, a very explicit, unambiguous statement is always *best*. Taking the twist and turns of inference always leaves a door for some mistake somewhere, somehow (and I don't mean by the inferrers).
:::::That said, I understand the logic and can't argue it. Just, like I said, I would personally be happiest to have a very explicit attribution. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 22:33, 23 February 2017 (UTC)
::::::Yeah, I can understand that you, being a mod, would like that. No worries. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celad]][[User_talk:Celadonkey|onkey]] 22:37, 23 February 2017 (UTC)
:::::::Alright, so I'm going to go ahead and edit all of the pages to conform to this in a half an hour or so, if it's ok with you guys. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celad]][[User_talk:Celadonkey|onkey]] 22:58, 23 February 2017 (UTC)
::::::::...Tell you what. How about we call it 24 hours instead? A little patience won't hurt you. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 23:09, 23 February 2017 (UTC)
:::::::::Cool, thanks. (Also thanks for being a nice mod! I've been on a lot of websites where the mods are like dictators.) --[[User:Celadonkey|Celad]][[User_talk:Celadonkey|onkey]] 23:11, 23 February 2017 (UTC)
I'd also like to note that I don't think the only supposed counterevidence, "All Mythical and Legendary Pokémon are not allowed" from the rules of Alola Friendly, is not counterevidence at all. "Mythical and Legendary Pokémon are not allowed" sure would be, but if I'm correct, the word "all" in the beginning means ''some'' legendaries are allowed in that competition (and those are the three groups).--'''[[User:Dennou Zenshi|電禅]][[User talk:Dennou Zenshi|Den Zen]]''' 10:09, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
:"All Mythical and Legendary Pokémon are not allowed" means "there are no Mythical or Legendary Pokémon that are allowed". "Not all Mythical and Legendary Pokémon are allowed" would mean what you seem to be interpreting it as. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 10:28, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
::I think Dennou reads it as "(All Mythical) and [~unspecified] Legendary Pokémon are not allowed" rather than "All (Mythical and Legendary) are not allowed".
::Also, I'd like to add that the opposite/negation of "All X are not allowed" is not "Some X are allowed", but "Some or none X are allowed". [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 11:14, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
:::Of course "not all X are Y" would the most unambiguous way to say it, but my research supports that "all X are not Y" ''can'' indeed mean the same thing (but also that "no X are Y"); specifically, how "all X are not Y" is interpreted seems to depend on the region of the speaker or the emphasized word. And since there's other evidence for and no other evidence against them, I think it's fair to assume they indeed mean "not all X are Y" (in other words, that T:N, Silvally, Tapus, and UBs ''are'' all Legendary yet are allowed in the competition).--'''[[User:Dennou Zenshi|電禅]][[User talk:Dennou Zenshi|Den Zen]]''' 11:34, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
::::I think that "All Mythical and Legendary Pokémon" implies that "all" applies to both Mythical and Legendary, but as the same wording was ''deliberately'' changed to "All Mythical and Some Legendary" on the VGC rules I'd say that's the most accurate. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celad]][[User_talk:Celadonkey|onkey]] 15:18, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
:::::Just coming in to veto the 24 hour wait, and change that to '''until the staff has made a decision'''. Not to sound too harsh, but I '''really''' dislike this "I'm going to add it if no one responds" attitude. I know this has been going on for months, but Game Freak isn't really making it easy with their inconsistent word usage. So please, if there's still patience, wait until the staff gives you the all clear, regardless of if it's 24 hours or one year from now.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 15:29, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
::::::I said "if it's ok with you guys", not "if nobody responds". But yeah, that's ok. Just make sure to let us know. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celad]][[User_talk:Celadonkey|onkey]] 15:35, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
:::::::Legendaries such as the bird trio, beast trio, force of nature etc had always been allowed in tournaments. im sure they are trying to refer to [[Special Pokémon]]. The japan website just list those not permitted instead of referring to any group. but of course, we cannot just assume -[[User:Pokeant|Pokeant]] ([[User talk:Pokeant|talk]]) 17:01, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
::::::::Elaborating on Dennou's earlier comment - I just realized, the Alola Friendly counterevidence doesn't really mean anything at all. It directly contradicts the GTS - if Type: Null and friends are allowed, and "all Mythical and Legendary Pokemon are banned", then they can't be mythical either. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celad]][[User_talk:Celadonkey|onkey]] 18:57, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
:::::::::on a side note, the japanese wiki included these in their article. of course bulbapedia have different staff and rules but just a note -[[User:Pokeant|Pokeant]] ([[User talk:Pokeant|talk]]) 04:34, 25 February 2017 (UTC)
::::::::::Yes, same with the French website, but all of the wikis are independent, so it shouldn't matter. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celad]][[User_talk:Celadonkey|onkey]] 14:22, 26 February 2017 (UTC)
:: The Kanto X Alola Regional Rumble doesn't ban anything that isn't Mewtwo, Mew, Cosmog, Cosmoem, Solgaleo, Lunala, Necrozma, and Magearna. In other words, not only are the Silvally line, Tapu, and UBs not banned as before... but the Legendary Birds are not banned either. [[User:Shiramu Kuromu|Shiramu Kuromu]] ([[User talk:Shiramu Kuromu|talk]]) 00:18, 10 March 2017 (UTC)
:::I don't think this means anything... It doesn't say anything about Legendary or Mythical Pokémon, it just lists the banned ones. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celad]][[User_talk:Celadonkey|onkey]] 01:21, 10 March 2017 (UTC)
:::The main evidence against the gang from being legendary is this: "apparently Japanese versions do not say on GTS that those groups are legendary (or mythical), only that they're special Pokémon, so it's too early to say which of them are legendary" (Dennou Zenshi) I may or may not investigate this on my own.

:::My own opinion is that this should not influence the decision, because the same section ''in English'' mentions "Do you want to include people who are seeking Mythical or Legendary Pokemon" and when "don't include" is selected, already established legendaries and mythicals are excluded as well as the gang in question, and since this is an English wiki and since in the past borders between legendary Pokemon have been different than in Japanese, we should go by the English. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celad]][[User_talk:Celadonkey|onkey]] 01:29, 10 March 2017 (UTC)
::::I forgot to add, but the Japanese GTS thing isn't evidence for either side, so I don't think it should really matter.

::::With all of this said, it is the mods' decision. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celad]][[User_talk:Celadonkey|onkey]] 01:55, 10 March 2017 (UTC)
:::::It's a game originating from '''Japan'''. ''They'' made the game. ''They'' make the rules. So yes, the Japanese text has just as much relevance to deciding (I might in fact go as far as their decision is absolute) what is and isn't a legendary/mythical.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 03:46, 10 March 2017 (UTC)
::::::Except, that in this case, it seems that the Japanese GTS is more vague than absolute. If the Japanese games are not calling them Legends or Illusory, then it seems like the other languages might be more relevant at this time. --[[User:Super goku|Super goku]] ([[User talk:Super goku|talk]]) 05:47, 10 March 2017 (UTC)
{{indent}} Can I just ask what we're even having this argument ''about'' at this point? If the English GTS says they're either Legendary or Mythical but doesn't clarify which one, and the Japanese one says they're Special but doesn't mention anything about Legendary or Mythical, then that seems to put us back exactly where we started — knowing they're either Legendary or Mythical, but not knowing anything more than that. This back-and-forth-ing over the Japanese GTS seems to be a lot of hand-wringing over nothing to me. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 06:26, 10 March 2017 (UTC)
:English GTS says "Legendary and Mythical Pokémon" are excluded with filter. Japanese GTS says "special Pokémon", but we don't know what this means, since they are not referring to [[Special Pokémon]] that we know. From this, we can conlude that the gang in question are either Mythical or Legendary, which we have been doing until this point was brought up: Rules for VGC 2017 say that "All Mythical and some Legendary Pokémon" are banned. The gang is not banned.

:In response to ForceFire's comment: I don't think Japanese decision is absolute if they don't tell us the decision that they've made. All it says is "special Pokémon", and since it isn't referring to box legends and Mewtwo, since Pokémon like Entei are blocked by the filter, it doesn't tell us anything. It's non-evidence. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celad]][[User_talk:Celadonkey|onkey]] 12:11, 10 March 2017 (UTC)
::Just realized, I didn't even answer your question, whoops. The argument is over whether these guys are legendary or not. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celad]][[User_talk:Celadonkey|onkey]] 13:11, 10 March 2017 (UTC)
:::After some research... I'm not 100% sure, but it looks like the Japanese GTS says "幻や　伝説ポケモンを<nowiki>\n</nowiki>ほしがっている　人を". (I'm not sure what "<nowiki>\n</nowiki>" is, I copied this from the Japanese text dump on abcboy's page.) I definitely see "伝説" (Legendary) and "幻" (Illusory, the term Japan uses for Mythicals). And yes, Type:Null and the gang are still excluded when the filter is on. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celad]][[User_talk:Celadonkey|onkey]] 16:38, 11 March 2017 (UTC)
::::It's about this simple: as a matter of current policy, we're not satisfied by the current extent of revealed information. In other words, continuing to argue over the same current set of facts will go precisely nowhere. We know everything you do and are unwilling to make the jump.
::::If something new (''especially'' direct, like "X is Legendary") pops up, feel free to mention that, please. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 16:55, 11 March 2017 (UTC)
:::::That's fair, thank you. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celad]][[User_talk:Celadonkey|onkey]] 16:57, 11 March 2017 (UTC)
::::::I don't mean to start an argument, but why are you not satisfied? It would help me to know your train of thought for the future, and I'm curious. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celad]][[User_talk:Celadonkey|onkey]] 19:52, 11 March 2017 (UTC)
:::::::The simplest answer is probably that direct evidence is best. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 20:12, 11 March 2017 (UTC)
::::::::That's fair, but what's the limit of what's good enough? I don't understand why a big tournament where "Mythical and some Legendaries are banned" and the gang not being banned, plus the gang being excluded from a filter that excludes "mythical and legendaries", is too vague for Bulbapedia.

::::::::Please pardon me if I'm a little rude, I'm just very confused why new points and rules keep being brought up every time we get closer to making a change. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celad]][[User_talk:Celadonkey|onkey]] 20:19, 11 March 2017 (UTC)
:::::::::Sorry if I'm making an assumption, but it sounds to me like "deduced based on separate sources" is not good enough, whereas "a single source" would be unambiguously acceptable. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 20:37, 11 March 2017 (UTC)
::::::::::If that is the case, that seems very silly. As Den Zen pointed out, logic may not be the strongest suit of the users of the Internet, but simple logic puzzles like this case shouldn't be shelved just for having two parts to it. I mean, it's one thing if it's a string of convoluted, conspiracy-esque sources, like how you would see boards in rooms with newspaper clippings and string, but this isn't like that. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celad]][[User_talk:Celadonkey|onkey]] 20:52, 11 March 2017 (UTC)
{{indent}} Guys, just give up. Look at how lengthy this discussion is and ask yourselves, "are we even close to a solution or we'll have to keep posting messages until this thread gets long enough that we can publish a series of novels about it?"
We don't have solid evidence stating that these Pokémon are Legendary or Mythical. We can't label them as such until we have a more concrete source. GTS filters are not enough when Phione has been referred to as a Mythical Pokémon by a large number of sources from Generation V onwards and we still say its Mythical status is disputed due to a Prima Guide from a decade ago!!! If Phione's case is not moving forward, I don't know why you insist on this. --[[User:Mikuri|'''Mi''']][[User talk: Mikuri|'''ku''']][[Special:Contributions/Mikuri|'''ri''']] 21:10, 11 March 2017 (UTC)
:I respectfully disagree.

:Phione is... a different case. Phione has had lots of sources left and right saying "it's mythical" "it's not mythical" etc. There's a bunch of evidence for the Pokemon in question here being Legendary, and the only source against it has a wording that was used again after it, with the same Pokemon being restricted, yet it was revoked and changed.

:And anyways, the talk page is meant for discussion like this. We may be close to a solution. We may not be. I believe that there is enough evidence for the case, and too little and not reputable enough evidence against it, to reasonably say that they are Legendary. I'm going to keep pushing forward until either a change has been made or I can understand the decision for the change not to be made. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celad]][[User_talk:Celadonkey|onkey]] 21:27, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

Can it not be assumed that since there are no mythical or legendary Pokemon (minus Phione, Cosmog and Cosmoem), with a base stat under 580 and that in the Sun and Moon pokedex, they have a green background instead of the same one as confirmed legendaries, that they are therefore their own group. Could they not be defined as something like "Unique Pokemon" like Unown? [[User:LanceDrake286|LanceDrake286]] ([[User talk:LanceDrake286|talk]]) 22:55, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
: Kind of like saying only Legendary Pokemon have unique battle music and- OH WAIT; Type: Null and Silvally share Gladion's theme with him, and the Tapu and UBs have their own separate music used solely among themselves. [[User:Shiramu Kuromu|Shiramu Kuromu]] ([[User talk:Shiramu Kuromu|talk]]) 23:17, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
::Unown are not "defined as unique Pokemon". They are, for wiki purposes, in the same category as any other non- Legendary or Mythical Pokemon. Either way, we can't assume what's Legendary or Mythical and what's not based on traits, ''especially'' if you have to make exceptions. It would be like if you were to say that Solgaleo and Lunala can't be legendaries, because they evolve from a Pokemon. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celad]][[User_talk:Celadonkey|onkey]] 00:31, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
::A couple things I forgot to mention:

::First of all, there actually is a confirmed Legendary Pokemon that's under 580 BST. It's 50% Zygarde.

::Second of all, I'm going to stop pushing for the change with the current set of information. I've talked with staff and I now understand the decision that they've made much more. I will bring up any new evidence that comes up. I have faith in GAME FREAK that they will officially, explicitly mention these Pokémon as Legendary, as they have with previous Legendaries. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celad]][[User_talk:Celadonkey|onkey]] 00:49, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

::: I'm not sure if a specific form of a legendary can be counted as an exception to my 580 BST idea but I do agree that since there are a few exceptions, it's not 100% true.[[User:LanceDrake286|LanceDrake286]] ([[User talk:LanceDrake286|talk]]) 01:30, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
::::to help end this I propose a criteria for counting a pokemon as a legendary
::::-the pokemon must have storyline/lore relevance
::::-the pokemon must not be able to be replicated by breeding
::::-the pokemon must only be able to be captured once [[User:Gingerwithasoul|Gingerwithasoul]] ([[User talk:Gingerwithasoul|talk]]) 02:11, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
:::::The sentiment is appreciated, but Legendary is an official classification of Pokémon, and since no official sources give us a criteria for this classification, it's up to those official sources to tell us whether Pokémon are Legendary or not. We simply aren't in a position where we can make those kinds of assertions without compromising the accuracy and integrity of Bulbapedia. --[[User:WhosHaddady|'''Haddady''']] [[User talk:WhosHaddady|~Straight Outta the Bag~]] 02:50, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
::::::This might be me being pedantic, but even if we were to use fan criteria (which we won't), those criteria aren't really that good.

::::::Point 1 - The Legendary Birds have never had any lore in the games. Neither has Necrozma. There are a few other confirmed Legendaries that don't fit that either.

::::::Point 3 - Would this make Nihilego and Guzzlord Legendary, but no other UBs? Also, that would exclude Solgaleo or Lunala, confirmed Legendaries.

::::::Either way, we're not using fan criteria for our pages, especially with something with as much gravity as this. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celad]][[User_talk:Celadonkey|onkey]] 12:07, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

== The Tapu, UB, Null and Silvally ARE Legendary. I have proof. ==

I'd just like to point out part of the VGC 2017 rules [http://www.pokemon.com/us/play-pokemon/about/tournaments-rules-and-resources/ downloaded from here]:

5.2. Case 2 – Severe Tier 2

o Any Legendary or Mythical Pokémon (with the black clover) that has Hidden Power as a Fighting-type move.

That's part of the manual hack checking appendix. It essentially means that they are Legendary or Mythical, as this appendix lists everything the electronic hack check misses, the Pokémon in question can't have HP Fighting, and if they AREN'T Legendary or Mythical, then they CAN have HP Fighting, as then this clause wouldn't apply, so HP Fighting would be possible in-game without hacking, and they defiantly can't catch impossible HP Fighting on Pokémon using the electronic hack check. We also have the official statement that NO Mythical Pokémon are in VGC 2017 and SOME Legendary Pokémon ARE in VGC to eliminate the possibility that they're Mythical. This is also an official source stating that the minimum 3 31 IVs thing is still exclusive to Mythical and Legendary Pokemon. Oh, and if they AREN'T Legendary because purely of the statement from the Alola Friendly, then the statement that you can't use Mythical or Legendary Pokemon in {insert name of any battle facility} in the games themselves eliminates the Legendary Birds, Legendary Beasts, Legendary titans, Lake Guardians, Cresselia, Heatran, the Swords of Justice and the Forces of Nature from being Legendary by the same logic. [[User:PartHunter|PartHunter]] ([[User talk:PartHunter|talk]]) 13:48, 13 March 2017 (UTC), wondering why this is so hard to make a decision on.
:I think the issue is not whether they are Legendary or not, but whether they are Legendary or Mythical. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celad]][[User_talk:Celadonkey|onkey]] 14:05, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
::Nothing on that page says "VGC 2017"... The appropriate link is "Play! Pokemon VG Rules and Formats". (Just as a suggestion, maybe try to be more exact about how you're referring to links in the future.)
::That guide as it sits has a pretty serious flaw: it doesn't define the Mythical and Legendary Pokemon. How's a checker supposed to know who they have to check and who not? That's really not an arbitrary question. Either it's up to each checker (in which case, say...maybe the UBs aren't Legendary because, pssh, there's no way you'd ever be able to get multiple of a Legendary Pokemon in the same game, of course), or they have to have some criteria that each person can obey to reliably reach the same conclusions.
::If VGC anywhere states which Pokemon are considered Mythical or Legendary, that'd be absolutely GREAT. In the meantime, it's probably (i.e., I haven't asked at the moment, but, given the standing decision) not satisfactory for us to assume who that is, even if the explanation seems apparent. If they will explicitly state something and then change it, it's one thing for us to follow that and turn out wrong for that reason; if they haven't explicitly stated it, then if they make a clear statement later that's contradictory, we'll just end up looking the fools. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 14:17, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
:::If the VGC checkers can decide for themselves who's legendary and who's not, that would be kind of silly, because then either legal Pokémon would be blocked, or illegal Pokémon would get through. I would think that they would either have a list of legendaries, or a list of legendary criteria. It would be wonderful if we could somehow get our hands on either. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celad]][[User_talk:Celadonkey|onkey]] 14:31, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
::::I'd like to point out that in Pokémon X and Y, [[Baby Pokémon]] caught in the wild are guaranteed to have three random IVs of 31 due to their inclusion in the Undiscovered Egg Group so at a point in time the 3 31 IVs thing was not true. Additionally the Ash Greninja received from the Special Demo Version also comes with guaranteed 3 31 IVs that are locked to Attack, Special Attack and Speed and it is definitely not a legendary mythical pokemon but it IS in the undiscovered egg group. [[User:LanceDrake286|LanceDrake286]] ([[User talk:LanceDrake286|talk]]) 17:32, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
This debate on Potential Legedary is one of the biggest discussions ones I have ever seen on topic. And Ash Greninja is a special one of kind Pokémon like the Type: Null and Silvally.--[[User:Jacob9594|Jacob Kogan]] ([[User talk:Jacob9594|talk]]) 17:41, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
:*sigh* Please don't bring up something completely unrelated to derail the discussion. Ash-Greninja is a form. That's all, period. It has nothing to do with this debate. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 17:45, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
:::LanceDrake- I think it was a glitch in X and Y. And the Ash Greninja thing, and it wasn't mentioned but this applies to Gen I VC Pokémon too, is a special case. All of those Pokémon are available with normal IVs. However, all Legendary and Mythical Pokémon are always guaranteed to have 3 perfect IVs, without hacking. And as was pointed out before, it has been officially confirmed that all Legendaries and Mythicals have 3 perfect IVs.

:::Anyways, it's been acknowledged by staff that the Pokémon in question are for sure either Legendary or Mythical. The question is, which. And at this point there's nothing (or at least I don't think there's anything) that falls in line with the staff's guidelines and expectations. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celad]][[User_talk:Celadonkey|onkey]] 18:02, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

::::Ash Greninja was brought up to help disprove the above theory stating the 3 31 IVs thing was EXCLUSIVE to mythical and legendary pokémon. It's not unrelated to said discussion in any way.
::::Can I ask for a link to the official statement as well? It would help my understanding here. [[User:LanceDrake286|LanceDrake286]] ([[User talk:LanceDrake286|talk]]) 18:16, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
:::::it said that all mythicals and legendaries always have 3 perfect IVs, not that ONLY mythicals and legendaries have 3 perfect IVs. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celad]][[User_talk:Celadonkey|onkey]] 18:49, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
::::::So, how is it a question whether the tapu and the Type: Null line are legendary or mythical? They're not event exclusive and not banned from online competitions, so they're not Mythical. Ergo, if they can only be either Legendaries or Mythicals, they have to be Legendaries. - ''unsigned comment from [[User:Missingno. Master|Missingno. Master]] ([[User talk:Missingno. Master|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Missingno._Master|contribs]])'' 21:30, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
:::::::I'm mostly going to repeat what I said above:
:::::::As a matter of current policy, we're not satisfied by the current extent of revealed information. We know everything you do and are unwilling to make the jump. (...With the possible exception of this latest info, which hasn't had time to be inspected much by staff. But I wouldn't expect it to change our official stance.)
:::::::If something new (especially direct, like "X is Legendary") pops up, feel free to mention that, please.
:::::::Like I said: this is our current "policy". I understand exactly where the "A & B = Legendary" people are coming from; but this is Bulbapedia. You're welcome to disagree—to be disgusted with us over it—but there are times when we very much prefer an abundance of caution. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 21:39, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

Wouldn't this apply to the Legendary Birds, beats, Titians, Spirits, three of the Swords of Justice, and others I can name. As they aren't banned from Tournaments like the Ultra Beasts, tapu and the Type: Null line as mentioned before?'''--[[User:Jacob9594|Jacob Kogan]] ([[User talk:Jacob9594|talk]]) 00:26, 14 March 2017 (UTC)'''
:Those are already confirmed to be Legendary. We don't need another source to reaffirm they are. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celad]][[User_talk:Celadonkey|onkey]] 01:30, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
::''This is also an official source stating that the minimum 3 31 IVs thing is still exclusive to Mythical and Legendary Pokemon.'' - No it's not. The manual hack check is not exhaustive (it would be pretty hard to write a human-readable document that is). This statement says that if it is Mythical or Legendary, a Pokémon cannot have Hidden Power Fighting; it says nothing about the opposite.
::''Oh, and if they AREN'T Legendary because purely of the statement from the Alola Friendly, then the statement that you can't use Mythical or Legendary Pokemon in {insert name of any battle facility} in the games themselves eliminates the [snipped] from being Legendary by the same logic.'' - Where does the game ever claim that you cannot use Mythical or Legendary Pokémon in battle facilities? To my knowledge, there is always a specific list of Pokémon you cannot use (often including Eggs).
::Now, the existence of this point is interesting, because it implies that judges know which Pokémon are considered Mythical or Legendary. However, I believe that only public rule documents can be enforced in official tournaments, so exactly how they determine this should be looked into. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 01:57, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
:::I talked with a VGC Judge and he said that nobody knows which Pokémon are legendary and the same discussion went on in their private forums. They decided to disregard the rule that says that legendary and mythical Pokémon can't have fighting Hidden Power, and instead have it as Pokémon who are guaranteed to have 3 IVs cannot have Fighting Hidden Power, as they couldn't figure out what was legendary and what wasn't. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celad]][[User_talk:Celadonkey|onkey]] 11:09, 14 March 2017 (UTC)

::::This is a quote from the PWT, accessed by talking to the red attendant, selecting info and selecting the Kanto Leaders Tournament:

::::"Kanto Leaders Tournament is a tournament in which Gym Leaders from Kanto are participating. You may not have duplicate Pokémon or duplicate held items. The item Soul Dew and the move Sky Drop are banned. Legendary or mythical Pokémon may not participate, either. For these battles, all Pokémon will be set to Level 50. The winner will be awarded with a little more BP than usual. Good luck!"

::::And yet some Legendary Pokémon CAN participate in this tournament, the ones listed above. The games use that line in other places, too. The description for the Kanto X Alola Regional Rumble download rules says "Only Alola Pokédex and Kanto Pokédex can be used. Legendary and Mythical Pokémon are banned.", as well, yet confirmed legendaries, the Legendary Birds, are allowed in it. The X and Y Baby Pokémon thing never prevented HP Fighting, as it didn't prevent HATCHING those Pokémon with 2 or fewer 31 IVs. And if you're just going to say "use caution", there are videos on YouTube complaining about it, so maybe we should at least do somthing on the page to add more about them, like how Phione is on the Mythical Pokémon page. There is such a thing as being too cautious. And this debate is pretty dumb, as all the against camp has in evidence and arguments is a single quote from a source that isn't even all that reliable for this kind of thing, and a general "be cautious" thing. Also, while the manual hack checking isn't exhaustive, since it bothers to worry about Hidden Power's type at all then the descriptor for the rule about Hidden Power's type IS almost certainly comprehensive, and Gen I Pokémon and Ash-Greninja are not relevant, as they aren't even legal in VGC, so the manual hack check does not have to account for them. (Also, Ash-Greninja is easy, as only a single IV spread is legal for it, so Hidden Power is fixed and the automatic hack check can probably easily verify the legality of it because of this, since all it has to do is confirm that all the IVs match the single legal spread, not calculate Hidden Power's type, which is a significantly less efficient thing to do, and would slow the hack check down while using up more memory.) [[User:PartHunter|PartHunter]] ([[User talk:PartHunter|talk]]) 12:17, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

::::P.S. I would have directly linked the rules, but clicking on the link to them automatically starts a file download, so I can't provide a direct link, as none appears in the browser to copy. [[User:PartHunter|PartHunter]] ([[User talk:PartHunter|talk]]) 12:19, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
:::::While I mostly agree, the "be cautious" thing is an important tenet on Bulbapedia. I believe that there is evidence enough to prove so, but I understand that a rule like "if you can't be 100% sure, it doesn't belong yet" applies. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celad]][[User_talk:Celadonkey|onkey]] 13:35, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
::::::Those PWT rules seems a bit vague, but the Kanto X Alola Regional Rumble download rules are quite explicit. I don't really know what to say about them though, since while it indicates the Battle of Alola rules are suspect, it's also not confirmation in the other direction (since we weren't prepared to call them Legendary Pokémon even before finding that piece of evidence).
::::::"''Also, while the manual hack checking isn't exhaustive, since it bothers to worry about Hidden Power's type at all then the descriptor for the rule about Hidden Power's type IS almost certainly comprehensive''" - I don't understand how you draw this conclusion at all. The manual hack check also covers illegal Poké Balls, but that doesn't mean it covers every single possible case (it doesn't). The fact that it mentions some property is illegal on some Pokémon doesn't mean that it covers every single possible time that is illegal.
::::::Anyway, I asked Pokémon support and got the following response:
:::::::"''In the "2017 Pokémon VGC Rules, Format, and Penalty Guidelines" document, Manual Hack Checking Appendix - Case 2 specifies that a penalty will be issued for "Any Legendary or Mythical Pokémon (with the black clover) that has Hidden Power as a Fighting-type move. Which Pokémon that are permitted in the current format are considered Legendary or Mythical Pokémon? I cannot find any indication of this in the games themselves or other rule documents.''"
:::::::"''While we are not in a position to discuss the legality of Pokémon overall, Pokémon are illegal if they are flagged by the electronic hack check or violate one of the rules in section 5 of the VGC rules.''"
::::::I was really hoping this would resolve the discussion, but they're being deliberately evasive... --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 22:49, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
::::::::Wait, how'd you contact Pokemon support? I've been trying to find a way to do that, but the best I could do was contact a Pokemon Professor (VGC judge, he said he had the same issue). --[[User:Celadonkey|Celad]][[User_talk:Celadonkey|onkey]] 23:00, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
:::::::::http://support.pokemon.com --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 00:09, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
::::::On bulbapedia, listing things that aren't yet facts on the pages isn't accepted. Furthermore, additional proof against the argument is the Rotom Pokédex never explicitly saying any of the specified pokémon are legendary while it does mention when confirmed legendaries and mythicals are added. There's also the gold backgrounds being present for confirmed Legendary and Mythical pokémon while these unique or special pokémon do not.

::::::The only way for us to ascertain whether they are legendary or not is if the TPC explicitly states it to be so. Everything else is speculation until then. [[User:LanceDrake286|LanceDrake286]] ([[User talk:LanceDrake286|talk]]) 16:28, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

== Anime evidence? ==

Some of the translated summaries of [[SM019]] outright state that Tapu Koko (so by extension, all the Tapus) are legendary, [http://www.serebiiforums.com/showthread.php?656891-March-23rd-SM19-Intense-Electric-Shock-Training!-A-Rematch-with-Kapu-Kokeko!! as seen here]. Does this provide enough proof?--[[User:Geektreecko|Geektreecko]] ([[User talk:Geektreecko|talk]]) 03:13, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

:I'm fairly certain an official statement cannot be taken from a translated summary of something that happens in the anime. Do the summaries still call them legendary pokémon in Japanese. There's also the matter of the anime itself not calling them legendary, only a translation of a summary. [[User:LanceDrake286|LanceDrake286]] ([[User talk:LanceDrake286|talk]]) 16:39, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
::[http://imgur.com/eojk7UE The summary] indeed uses the Japanese word for Legendary Pokémon for Tapu Koko and it should be added to the "evidence for" section. Though I wouldn't say this is enough proof to start calling Tapus legendaries in Bulbapedia. It could be just anime writers or whoever wrote summary assuming they're legendaries wihout knowing for sure.--'''[[User:Dennou Zenshi|電禅]][[User talk:Dennou Zenshi|Den Zen]]''' 16:46, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
:::Random question: If the anime were to explicitly call Tapu Koko a legendary, would that apply to the other tapus too, or just Koko? --[[User:Celadonkey|Celad]][[User_talk:Celadonkey|onkey]] 11:56, 21 March 2017 (UTC)
::The episodes with {{P|Tapu Koko}} now have the "List of Episodes where a Legendary Pokémon appears" category, though the Tapus are still not listed as Legendary Pokémon otherwise. Frankly, I'm not too sure if we should use the anime as a source for confirming if a Pokémon is Legendary or not, given [[M03]] states that {{P|Unown}} are Legendary (even if that was just a case of Early Instalment Weirdness). [[User:UxieLover1994|UxieLover1994]] ([[User talk:UxieLover1994|talk]]) 23:10, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
:::We use the anime for a lot of things, like Lugia being the trio master of the birds, or Zygarde being a part of a trio with XY. It's likely that Unown is a case of Early Installment Weirdness. But I agree that we can't yet assume Tapu Koko is legendary JUST from that one magazine clip We need an episode, in English, or some sort of official episode description. Or some other source, not TV show. It'll probably happen eventually. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celad]][[User_talk:Celadonkey|onkey]] 12:43, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

== The Ultra Beasts ==

Okay in the PGL article for the upcoming Tiny Tournament It has a list of Pokémon they suggest using and one of them is Kartana. Now that by itself doesn't mean anything, however near the end of the article it says that the only Legendary Pokémon allowed are Uxie, Mesprit, and Azelf. If Kartana was a Legendary Pokémon then those three wouldn't have been listed as the only Legendary Pokémon allowed. I don't know about you guys but I'm pretty sure this proves the Ultra Beasts aren't Legendary Pokémon. Especially since it's from the official Pokémon website.[[User:Flain|Flain]] ([[User talk:Flain|talk]]) 23:21, 3 June 2017 (UTC)
:You are correct that Kartana is eligible. However, the site says that the Pokémon that are eligible are: "National Pokédex No. 001 through 801, excluding Pokémon over 1 meter (3'03") tall, all Mythical Pokémon, and some Legendary Pokémon." Emphasis on some. In other words, no new information, as usual.

:I really do hope that TPCI says something in the near future about the legendary status of the UBs. I don't even care if they say they're not legendary, I just want some confirmation of something to end this debate --[[User:Celadonkey|Celad]][[User_talk:Celadonkey|onkey]] 13:42, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
::Celadonkey, you overlooked the most important line of [https://3ds.pokemon-gl.com/information/d4d24e3b-a0fa-4620-a443-5e29b615486d that article]: ''The only Legendary Pokémon permitted in the competition are Azelf, Uxie, and Mesprit.''
::As the article notes, Kartana is eligible, so this line implies that Kartana is not Legendary. That's the point Flain was trying to make. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 14:06, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
:::I must have been looking at the wrong website, sorry. But I still hold with my statement. This website [https://3ds.pokemon-gl.com/competitions/4114/regulation/?status=0] states what I said above, and from what I could find, it appears to be newer (June 28, as opposed to June 3). Either way, these two pieces of conflicting information don't add anything. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celad]][[User_talk:Celadonkey|onkey]] 14:25, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
::::There's no conflict. The regulations do say exactly as you described, but that doesn't contradict the other article. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 14:41, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
:::::Fair, but again, this doesn't really shake up the debate. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celad]][[User_talk:Celadonkey|onkey]] 15:41, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

== About Silvally ==
So, are we confirmed that Silvally as Legendary Pokémon? [[User:E9310103838|E9310103838]] ([[User talk:E9310103838|talk]]) 01:09, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
:Yes, it has been [https://www.pokemon.com/us/pokemon-news/add-a-shiny-silvally-to-your-ranks/ officially confirmed]. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 01:14, 18 October 2017 (UTC)

== Ultra Beasts confirmed as Non-Legendaries? ==

The Pokémon official published an aricle with hints for catching Legendary Pokémon and the Ultra Beasts were not included and also has a part on the text saying "You'll be able to discover Pokémon that aren't found in the Alola region by entering these warp holes, including Legendary Pokémon and Ultra Beasts!" so Ultra Beast are not Legendary Pokémon. {{unsigned|Pika fanatic}}

:I am not really sure on that as the recent games seems to finally confirmed that there some Legendary Pokémon are indeed Ultra Beats, the examples are Cosmog and Necorzma, plus in the anime Gladion mentions Cosmog being an Ultra Beast.--[[User:Jacob9594|Jacob Kogan]] ([[User talk:Jacob9594|talk]]) 17:14, 5 January 2018 (UTC)
::Can someone please provide a link to this specific article? --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 23:05, 5 January 2018 (UTC)
:::I don't have the article (in fact I haven't seen any articles mentioning that) but I can at least say that it says something along the lines of "Legendary Pokemon and Ultra Beasts" in the guide book a few times.
:::Either way, though, I don't believe it means anything... There's not enough room to say anything definite from a phrase like that, especially when other pieces of evidence are considered. At least in my opinion. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celadonkey]] 23:09, 5 January 2018 (UTC)
I believe we got this information from the either the Regional Strategy Guide or National Pokedex Guide as his proof for this matter. I recall seeing that line or something similar as well.--[[User:Jacob9594|Jacob Kogan]] ([[User talk:Jacob9594|talk]]) 23:47, 5 January 2018 (UTC)
::::https://www.google.com.br/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwj02eH4i8XYAhXBHJAKHe8sATUQFggoMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.pokemon.com%2Fus%2Fstrategy%2Ften-tips-for-catching-legendary-pokemon%2F&usg=AOvVaw32bQCWU65MKaCgrfJBUgFb Here the page, Ten tips for catching Legendary Pokémon.Pika fanatic 05:14, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

== Legendary Pokemon Regional Terms ==

So from the official staggery guide of USUM, I discovered these region term for the Legendaries. They are called Kantonian Legends, Johtoian Legends, Hoennian Legends, Sinnohan Legends, Unovan Legends, Kalosian Legends, and Alolan Legends. Shold they be added to the Legendary Pokémon page and individual pages? Just asking out of curiosity.--[[User:Jacob9594|Jacob Kogan]] ([[User talk:Jacob9594|talk]]) 02:26, 6 January 2018 (UTC)
:If you want, go ahead and put them on trivia on the individual regions pages. (I think I suggested to put it there when Bulbapedia was down but I guess it never happened.) However I don't think that they should be put on this page... the demonyms aren't really exclusive to legendaries. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celadonkey]] 03:16, 6 January 2018 (UTC)
::My source for these terms came form the official USUM Guide book. https://www.amazon.com/Pokémon-Ultra-Sun-Moon-Official/dp/074401882X --[[User:Jacob9594|Jacob Kogan]] ([[User talk:Jacob9594|talk]]) 18:06, 1 February 2018 (UTC)

== Type: Null and Silvally ==

Since both Type: Null and Silvally are officialy Legendary Pokémon, i thought in call their evolutionary line as ''Beast Killers'', because of the Beast Killer project that resulted in their creation, and i saw some wikas call then with this name, what are you think? [[User:Pika fanatic|Pika fanatic]] ([[User talk:Pika fanatic|talk]]) January 19, 04:50 (UTC)
:It's probably better not to make up an imaginary name for a group that's so small that we can just say the Pokemon's names. It's not that difficult to just write "Type: Null and Silvally", unlike larger groups. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 04:38, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

== Type: Null, Silvally, and Tapu trivia ==

I just want to say they were controversial at the beginning due they were not pointed in the Japanese media as legendary Pokémon. I think this need to be included in the trivia? [[User:E9310103838|E9310103838]] ([[User talk:E9310103838|talk]]) 15:41, 25 January 2018 (UTC)
:I know right, and it took the Pokémon company 1-2 years to finally confirm they status as Legendaries. It cause quite the debate when it happened. I am glad both the anime and Year of Legendary Pokémon finally settle the debate but why this long? Heck, this is a debate is huge like the time with the Ultra Beats being thought o be Legendary Pokémon even though there is proof they are not, unless you count the Cosmic Duo and Necrozma. But again it up to the admins to decide on the trivia matter.--[[User:Jacob9594|Jacob Kogan]] ([[User talk:Jacob9594|talk]]) 15:46, 25 January 2018 (UTC)
::There was no controversy. Fans assuming and guessing things is a common thing with the fandom.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 15:52, 25 January 2018 (UTC)
:::Indeed and it usually leads very interesting theories that end up being either true or false, give or take depending on the situation.--[[User:Jacob9594|Jacob Kogan]] ([[User talk:Jacob9594|talk]]) 16:03, 25 January 2018 (UTC)

== Replacing the Entei anime movie picture ==

So I have a suggestion that needs approval. I was thinking maybe replacing the this picture Entei Book picture that is on the top of the Legendary Pokemon Page with the 2018 Legendary Pokemon Distributions artwork picture. My reason is that I find that picture more fitting and better represents the Legendary Pokémon themselves as whole and their page on Bulbapedia. The Ultra Beast Page and Mythical Pokemon does the example as seen with both pages showing a variety of different Pokémon of said group each. What do you think guys?--[[User:Jacob9594|Jacob Kogan]] ([[User talk:Jacob9594|talk]]) 15:19, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
:I agree. Any new-ish official artwork with a substantial group of Legendaries would clearly be better than a shot of a single Legendary from more than a decade and a half ago. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 16:34, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
::Thank you for agreeing me. Now once more approval comes, the switch came be done.--[[User:Jacob9594|Jacob Kogan]] ([[User talk:Jacob9594|talk]]) 19:08, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
:::Don't say that you're going to wait for more approval only to make the change anyway. Have patience, a response is not going to come magically. I don't mind using an image that has all (or at least some of) the legendary Pokémon, so it's fine. But still, actually wait for more approval, don't just add it because one person approved it.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 05:52, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
::::Fair enough sorry about that. I will revert my edit.--[[User:Jacob9594|Jacob Kogan]] ([[User talk:Jacob9594|talk]]) 05:54, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
:::::Well... I ''did'' say that it's fine (i.e. gave approval), so you didn't have to revert yourself.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 06:02, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
::::::Okay then, that you for understanding and giving approval Force Fire.--[[User:Jacob9594|Jacob Kogan]] ([[User talk:Jacob9594|talk]]) 06:06, 1 February 2018 (UTC)

== the averaging ==

i always find it strange to have different forms count as different pokemon. they are the same species. why are we treating them separately? I would like to suggest an alternative way to average. rather than counting all the forms as separate pokemon, we average the forms first, then use the average for that pokemon. for example, instead of treating mewtwo as three separate pokemon, we average the stats of the three form, and count that as mewtwo's (average) stats, and then we use this to average everything. Mewtwo would still be counted as 1 species of pokemon rather than 3. I am not saying this is the best way, but perhaps we can have a discussion on whether to keep the current way or have this instead. thank you (same for the mythical). -[[User:Pokeant|Pokeant]] ([[User talk:Pokeant|talk]]) 03:38, 17 March 2018 (UTC)

== Merge duos + trios ==

I believe we should merge the pages of legendary trios and duos. We now have two quartets of legendary Pokémon as secondary legendaries- the Swords of Justice and the tapus (arguably the Legendary titans as well, although the use of the term is ambiguous). Neither of these groups get a place in either the legendary trio or duo pages, despite their relationship being just as important- the number of Pokémon in each group limits the scope of the article. There is not much reason to keep the two pages separate, as the two pages focus on the same topic: relationships between legendary Pokémon. (Additionally, the two pages, as they are right now, are very different: the legendary trio page is considerably less detailed than the legendary duo page.)

I also think that, if we were to merge the pages, they should be written to focus more on the relationships between the Pokémon in each grouping rather than just simply describing each group, to prevent the article from becoming a lite version of the "List of Legendary Pokémon" section on this page.

(Also, I hope I don't seem impatient, but it's an issue I feel strongly about- have any developments been made on Necrozma's trio status? The evidence is, in my opinion, clearer than other trios.) --[[User:Celadonkey|Celadonkey]] 01:30, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
: I agree with you Celadonkey on the matter and what you are getting at. Other than information reveled in the Post Game USUM Guide book and yesterday's episode, still taking time. From that I hear there is definite proof but from what an admin told me, we still need approval from the staff to finalize it if I recall, look how it took for Zygarde for example. So we may still have to wait for it. Also if we do that would the Trio Master be included as well to support it or just those two? Just was curious thats all as it a big proposal.--[[User:Jacob9594|Jacob Kogan]] ([[User talk:Jacob9594|talk]]) 01:59, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
::I feel like, apart from Lugia and Ho-oh, trio masters are already a part of their respective groups. Earlier I mentioned Regigigas which is also a strange case due to the existence of an official term. Where it gets weird, imo, is Arceus. Not only is Arceus a very asymmetrical case when compared with Dialga, Palkia, and Giratina, but it is also the master of the lake guardians. I think that trio masters are worth mentioning, but not much redefining is to be done there in my opinion. I would be welcoming of the inclusion of Arceus into a quartet with Dialga, Palkia, and Giratina but it’s not really my choice.

::Tl;dr: I think trio masters would be a valuable thing to bring up in a legendary grouping article but I don’t think that, for example, Lugia should be included with the legendary birds. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celadonkey]] 02:10, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

== Information from new DLC Trailer ==

So it has been confirmed The Three Legendary Birds are getting Regional Forms and the Two New Regi Duo are called Regielec and Regidraco. Can we start adding this in? Or wait for english trailer and website to get updated?--[[User:Jacob9594|Jacob9594 ]] ([[User talk:Jacob9594|talk]]) 13:26, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
:They are fine to be added to their respective articles.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 14:24, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

== Ultra Beasts and Mythicals are Legendaries ==

Can you add the Ultra Beasts and Mythicals to the "Legendary Comparison" section? {{unsigned|GlowstoneLove}}
:No. Those are not Legendary Pokemon.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 15:21, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

== New Legendary Pokemon Artwork ==

So we ahve a new Pokemon artwork that officially shows all the Legendary Pokemon. Can we use this to replace Year of Legendary Picture for this? https://swordshield.pokemon.com/assets/img/articles/ex/legendary_2x.jpg--[[User:Jacob9594|Jacob9594 ]] ([[User talk:Jacob9594|talk]]) 15:47, 4 October 2020 (UTC)
:Sorry link is broken https://swordshield.pokemon.com/en-us/expansionpass/features/#legendary-pokemon --[[User:Jacob9594|Jacob9594 ]] ([[User talk:Jacob9594|talk]]) 15:48, 4 October 2020 (UTC)
::I wouldn't call that official artwork, and more like a collage. Also think that it being rectangular might not be as nice looking in a thumbnail as a square image would be, but that's my opinion.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 16:24, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

== ultra beast are referred to as legendary in Crown Tundra ==

This is worth discussing if ultra beast should be included on this page, or at least mentioned somewhere since in crown tundra ultra beasts are called legendaries too. -[[User:Pokeant|Pokeant]] ([[User talk:Pokeant|talk]]) 06:16, 25 October 2020 (UTC)
:what he said. peony outright refers to them as legendary pokemon.[[User:Roserade57|Roserade57]] ([[User talk:Roserade57|talk]]) 12:42, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

== Multiple Legendary Pokémon ==

Do we really still need the "Multiple Legendary Pokémon" section? It's been pretty firmly established multiple times that Legendary Pokémon are not unique individuals (as per that section). I don't think we need to document literally every single case on this page. Just a couple of examples from different media should be enough. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 14:28, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

== Koraidon and Miraidon ==

Can both of them be considered as legendaries? They are just essentialy Paradox forms of Cyclizar, like any other Paradox Pokémon and yet these ones aren't considered legendaries. Futhermore, it's clearly stated in the subtext that they are not the only ones of thier respective spiecies in the eras witch they come from. {{unsigned|Lugiadrien}}
:They are essentialy legendary Pokemon in every possible way, their additional lore doesn't change that. What matters the most is being called legendary by official media and being programmed as such in the game code.--'''[[User:Team Rocket Grunt|Rocket]] [[User talk:Team Rocket Grunt|Grunt]]''' 14:57, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
:: Plus this is not the first multiple Legendary Pokémon of the same species are encountered in one game. The Crown Tundra is a good example of that. Plus the the two Type:Null From Gen 7. Plus you have two solgaleo/Lunala thanks to the Cosmog you find in Alola after going through an Ultra Wormhole.--[[User:Jacob9594|Jacob9594 ]] ([[User talk:Jacob9594|talk]]) 15:56, 26 November 2022 (UTC)

== The legendary treasures of Ruin ==

I don't know if its too early to not, but I think that we should create a specific page for the Treasures of Ruin, there is lore, a story told at history class, move sets and the extra information in dialog from the history teacher about how only pure heart people can remove the stakes to unlock the seals.
So, what do you all think, I'm being to early to consider creating the page?

--[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 18:53, 4 December 2022 (UTC)

Talk:List of game characters

2022-12-03T19:03:00Z

Neos: /* Extension to Pokémon Scarlett and Violet Character */

== Images ==
Would it be better to restyle the page in a manner that does not involve images, since not everyone has a sprite, and that makes the article seem incredibly lacking. {{unsigned|Turtwig A}}
:It could be changed to look a little like [[Template:TCG Releases]], or maybe the characters without sprites could be omitted? [[User:GoldenCelebi|GoldenCelebi]] 16:28, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
::...Hello? *clears throat meaningfully* [[User:GoldenCelebi|GoldenCelebi]] 17:59, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
:::Can't the overworld sprites be used for those? [[User talk:Duke R|'''|) u |( e''']] [[Special:Contributions/Duke R|'''®''']] 18:38, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
::::That could work. I tried it before, but I couldn't find any overworld sprites for most of them. If you'd like to look again, you're perfectly welcome. This is a wiki, after all. [[User:GoldenCelebi|GoldenCelebi]] 20:08, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
:::::I'm into other projects now, that was a suggestion. [[User talk:Duke R|'''|) u |( e''']] [[Special:Contributions/Duke R|'''®''']] 20:17, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

== Adding sprites? ==

Do they have to battle sprites or can they also be overworld sprites too? ''[[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen]] [[User talk:Frozen Fennec|Fennec]]'' 17:12, 6 March 2012 (UTC)
:To be honest, I think any sprites would do, or even Sugimori art if necessary. [[User:GoldenCelebi|Golden]][[User talk:GoldenCelebi|Celebi]] 22:34, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
::Was wondering since looking at the article it seems to be they all have to be in-game sprites (or icons for the 3D games). ''[[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen]] [[User talk:Frozen Fennec|Fennec]]'' 22:43, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
:::Another question, you think anyone will mind if I convert the long lists into the image tables? ''[[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen]] [[User talk:Frozen Fennec|Fennec]]'' 22:48, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
::::I doubt it. It's been lying half-complete for about two months now. [[User:GoldenCelebi|Golden]][[User talk:GoldenCelebi|Celebi]] 22:56, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

== Wait. ==

Why Snap is in Generation II? [[DJ#Snap|Article]] doesn't say anything about GSC, only HGSS. Also, Reed is never seen in-game, only in radio, Lily doesn't appear either. [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] 16:05, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
:Yes, Snap should be in Generation I. Says it [[Pokémon games#Spin-off games|here]]. *goes off to change it* -- [[User:GoldenCelebi|Golden]][[User talk:GoldenCelebi|Celebi]] 10:08, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
::It's not referring to ''that'' Snap. There's a character, or radio host, named snap who appears in HGSS. Reed appears in GSC.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 10:12, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
:::Yet another idiotic mistake to add to my current tally. >:-/ -- [[User:GoldenCelebi|Golden]][[User talk:GoldenCelebi|Celebi]] 10:23, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

== Sprites replacement. ==

Because every character is listed by the game of debut and no repetition is used, the old characters have old sprites. I think this is not a good reason, so could we give everyone the newest sprite possible? Instead of their sprites of debut? [[User:Nickvang|Nickvang]] ([[User talk:Nickvang|talk]]) 12:53, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
:They should at least all use generation III sprites, even those characters introduced in generation I. {{unsigned|Nickvang}}
::I've done Kanto and it looks nicer now. I understand the list by debut, but not the list with debut pictures! [[User:Nickvang|Nickvang]] ([[User talk:Nickvang|talk]]) 15:24, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
:::Uh... might want to look at [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=List_of_game_characters&diff=1575909&oldid=1575908 this]. -- [[User:GoldenCelebi|Golden]][[User talk:GoldenCelebi|Celebi]] 17:35, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
I actually think Jo the Marten isn't right. If someone wants a list of game characters, the newest sprite possible must be used. I mean... ...there isn't a second list with the new images. Everybody needs a proper list with proper pictures. Like a said before: I understand the list by debut, but not the list with debut pictures! And by the way, noone seems to have trouble with my changes at the moment. [[User:Nickvang|Nickvang]] ([[User talk:Nickvang|talk]]) 07:59, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
:Read the headers. They say a specific game, we use a specific game sprite.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 08:06, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
But it's not 'fair' that being of a later generation means having a better game sprite. We start with old black and white sprites and we end with new colorful sprites. I find it confusing and pages like 'Gym leader' and 'Elite Four' have also their characters listed by debut, but not with debut sprites. [[User:Nickvang|Nickvang]] ([[User talk:Nickvang|talk]]) 08:21, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
:This is not about what's fair. This about listing them chronologically. The Kanto Gym leaders debuted in Generation I, therefore, we use Generation I sprites. Elite Four and Gym leader pages only have their newer sprites because that page is not about chronology, unlike here where all characters listed are by debut.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 08:27, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
::If I could throw in my two cents. I like it fine the way it is. If people want to see the newer sprites, they can just look up the character page. [[User:Crystal Talian|Crystal]] [[User talk:Crystal Talian|Talian]] 08:30, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

== Ruby/Sapphire ==

The color of the table in Ruby/Sapphire section hurts my eyes. Am I the only one? --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 08:24, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
:Yeah, you're right those green lines are very irritating, I don't know why they are there in the first place. It remembers me to the EP38 accident. [[User:Nickvang|Nickvang]] ([[User talk:Nickvang|talk]]) 08:35, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
::It's because [[template:ruby color]] is rather dark, along with [[template:sapphire color]] and [[template:hoenn color]].--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 08:39, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

== PMD? ==

Where's the PMD characters? --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 20:06, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

== One-time note. ==

Why do the remakes and stuf only have a few characters listed? [[User:Nickvang|Nickvang]] ([[User talk:Nickvang|talk]]) 16:15, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

== Sprites ==

So okay, debut sprites. But with B2W2, now I am confused. Some of GSC characters have sprite from Stadium 2, and someone (for an unknown reason), changed some of the BW sprites to these from B2W2. Therefore, what goes? Also, the Week Siblings now is broken, could someone fix that? [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] ([[User talk:Marked +-+-+|talk]]) 11:57, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
:Fixed Week Siblings. The way it was coded caused it to break on Sundays. --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 23:26, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
:: Marked you're right. I had a discussion about the usage of old sprites of characters which have gotten new sprites for a while, a while ago. And even though I don't think that I could try to convince people of my opinion this time, I think that the whole page should be synchronised. If a character debuts in a certain (pair of) game(s), then it will use the best sprite available of it in that (pair of) game(s). So if a character doesn't have a battle sprite in the game(s) of debut, it will be stuck to its overworld sprite (or worse)! So that means that Rood and Zinzolin shouldn't ever be using the battle sprites introduced in games released after the characters. So if I would agree with the way of working that is now used, I would say that Rood and Zinzolin would need to get back their overworld sprites in the list, or that the whole list will just use the newest sprites possible (yay!). [[User:Nickvang|Nickvang]] ([[User talk:Nickvang|talk]]) 19:34, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

== Pokemon Conquest Aid Characters ==

Should the characters like messenger and pongorri lady be included in the pokemon conquest section (if so I do not know how to make the circles and every thing) {{unsigned|Pastamasta}}

== Mystery Dungeon and Pokepark ==

Shouldn't the imporant characters from [[mystery dungeon]] and [[pokepark]] be included too, like [[Blitzle]] and [[Grovyle]] {{unsigned|Pastamasta}}

== Order and minor characters ==

In wich order the characters are? If there is no order is possible to put the major character in the current format, with sprites and images, and add a section for each games named "minor characters" or "other characters" to put all the characters without a image (or with a bad image. For Instace, Generation 1 could be like this: ---[[User talk: Fosco Corazza| Fosco Corazza ]] 14:31, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

==={{game|Red and Blue|s}}===
 

{| style="margin:auto; text-align:center; {{roundy|20px}} border: 2px solid #{{Kanto color dark}}; background: #{{Red color}};"
|-
| style="{{roundy|80px}} border: 2px solid #{{Kanto color dark}}; background: #{{Blue color light}}; width:96px; height:96px"| [[File:Spr RG Red 1.png]]
| style="{{roundy|80px}} border: 2px solid #{{Kanto color dark}}; background: #{{Blue color light}}; width:96px; height:96px"| [[File:Spr RG Blue 1.png]]
| style="{{roundy|80px}} border: 2px solid #{{Kanto color dark}}; background: #{{Blue color light}}; width:96px; height:96px"| [[File:Spr RG Oak.png]]
| style="{{roundy|80px}} border: 2px solid #{{Kanto color dark}}; background: #{{Blue color light}}; width:96px; height:96px"| [[File:Spr RG Brock.png]]
| style="{{roundy|80px}} border: 2px solid #{{Kanto color dark}}; background: #{{Blue color light}}; width:96px; height:96px"| [[File:Spr RG Misty.png]]
| style="{{roundy|80px}} border: 2px solid #{{Kanto color dark}}; background: #{{Blue color light}}; width:96px; height:96px"| [[File:Spr RG Lt Surge.png]]
| style="{{roundy|80px}} border: 2px solid #{{Kanto color dark}}; background: #{{Blue color light}}; width:96px; height:96px"| [[File:Spr RG Erika.png]]
| style="{{roundy|80px}} border: 2px solid #{{Kanto color dark}}; background: #{{Blue color light}}; width:96px; height:96px"| [[File:Spr RG Koga.png]]
|- style="font-size: 80%"
| {{color2|000|Red (game)|Red}}
| {{color2|000|Blue (game)|Blue}}
| {{color2|000|Professor Oak}}
| {{color2|000|Brock}}
| {{color2|000|Misty}}
| {{color2|000|Lt. Surge}}
| {{color2|000|Erika}}
| {{color2|000|Koga}}
|-
| style="{{roundy|80px}} border: 2px solid #{{Kanto color dark}}; background: #{{Blue color light}}; width:96px; height:96px"| [[File:Spr RG Sabrina.png]]
| style="{{roundy|80px}} border: 2px solid #{{Kanto color dark}}; background: #{{Blue color light}}; width:96px; height:96px"| [[File:Spr RG Blaine.png]]
| style="{{roundy|80px}} border: 2px solid #{{Kanto color dark}}; background: #{{Blue color light}}; width:96px; height:96px"| [[File:Spr RG Giovanni.png]]
| style="{{roundy|80px}} border: 2px solid #{{Kanto color dark}}; background: #{{Blue color light}}; width:96px; height:96px"| [[File:Spr RG Lorelei.png]]
| style="{{roundy|80px}} border: 2px solid #{{Kanto color dark}}; background: #{{Blue color light}}; width:96px; height:96px"| [[File:Spr RG Bruno.png]]
| style="{{roundy|80px}} border: 2px solid #{{Kanto color dark}}; background: #{{Blue color light}}; width:96px; height:96px"| [[File:Spr RG Agatha.png]]
| style="{{roundy|80px}} border: 2px solid #{{Kanto color dark}}; background: #{{Blue color light}}; width:96px; height:96px"| [[File:Spr RG Lance.png]]
| style="{{roundy|80px}} border: 2px solid #{{Kanto color dark}}; background: #{{Blue color light}}; width:96px; height:96px"| [[File:Spr RG Rocket.png]]
|- style="font-size: 80%"
| {{color2|000|Sabrina}}
| {{color2|000|Blaine}}
| {{color2|000|Giovanni}}
| {{color2|000|Lorelei}}
| {{color2|000|Bruno}}
| {{color2|000|Agatha}}
| {{color2|000|Lance}}
| {{color2|000|Team Rocket}}
|}

 
====Minor Characters====
*[[Daisy Oak]]
*[[Bill]]
*[[Mr. Fuji]]
*[[Copycat]]
*[[Baoba|Safari Zone Warden]]
*[[Pokémon Center Nurse|Pokémon Center Nurses]]
*[[Kiyo]]
*Red's [[mom]]
*[[Old man (Kanto)|Old man]]
*[[Professor's aides|Professor Oak's aides]]
*[[Marowak (ghost)|Ghost Marowak]]
 

::: News? Could it work? Does it suck? Can I work on it? --[[User talk: Fosco Corazza| Fosco Corazza ]] 18:02, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

::::Seems like a good idea to me. - [[User:Poikins|'''poi''']][[User talk:Poikins|'''kins''']] 22:23, 17 November 2013 (UTC)

== Sprites or Sugimori artwork ==

Can we turn every sprite into Sugimori artwork or keep the sprites since several characters doesn't have an artwork? [[User:Cinday123|Cinday123]] ''([[User talk:Cinday123|Talk]])'' 02:35, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

== Extension to Pokémon Scarlett and Violet Character ==

I want to add more character in Pokémon Scarlett and Violet since it's over a week after release. Should I add more character on the list? --[[User:Taufiq|Ταυφιϙ]] ([[User talk:Taufiq|talk]]) 16:21, 26 November 2022 (UTC)

Its been two weeks after release, I don't see why not, but can some administrator say anything?
--[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 19:02, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

Talk:List of Pokémon by National Pokédex number/Archive 2

2022-12-03T17:36:08Z

Neos: /* hey */

== Archives ==
* [[Talk:List of Pokémon by National Pokédex number/Archive 1|Archive 1]]
__TOC__
== Gen VI ==
<s>Could Aurorus and Tyrantrum be added to the page, or will they be added after this mystery Pokémon is revealed tomorrow?</s> Scratch that. Aurorus, Tyrantrum, and Doublade need to be added. --[[User talk:Relicant|The]] [[Special:Contributions/Relicant|Truth]] aka Relicant 16:19, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

== 719, 720, 721 ==

I remember reading somewhere that someone discovered Pokemon past Zygarde. Should we add them? [[User:Liberty Bell|Liberty Bell]] ([[User talk:Liberty Bell|talk]]) 14:25, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
:We know about them, but we can't really confirm them since this time we neither can crack into the game to see all the data, nor they've been officialy revealed... at least for now. [[User:Uploader|Uploader]] ([[User talk:Uploader|talk]]) 14:39, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

== Cottonee's type change ==

Can anyone add Fairy type to Cottonee please, that's because it's evolution is also Fairy type. Thank you! [[User:Cinday123|Cinday123]] ([[User talk:Cinday123|talk]]) 06:56, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

== False typing ==

Cottonee and Whimsicott are not fairy type. Why do people keep stating that when you cannot even find them in x or y? --[[User:Admantus|Admantus]] ([[User talk:Admantus|talk]]) 19:07, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
:You can't catch them yourself, but they are used by other Trainers in battle facilities, etc. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 20:19, 1 December 2013 (UTC)

::And according to Serebii, Cottonee line is now Fairy type, however, you can't catch them in Kalos and the only way to get them is to transfer Pokémon from Black, White, Black 2 or White 2 to X or Y, this is because it is not available to catch in Kalos however you have a chance to see them in battle facilities whereas Trainers used Whimsicott. [[User:Cinday123|Cinday123]] ([[User talk:Cinday123|talk]]) 08:52, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

Well, Serebii might be wrong, because they haven't even updated the sprites for the other unobtainable pokemon that appear post-game. I think that the types should be switched back to pure grass until pokemon bank comes out. --[[User:Admantus|Admantus]] ([[User talk:Admantus|talk]]) 20:56, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

:That has nothing to do with it. I mean, the information on Bulbapedia is always confirmed information. And any information that wasn't confirmed gets removed. So, the fact that Cottonee/Whimsicott being Grass/Fairy hasn't been removed or altered back to it's original information/typing means it's been confirmed. And like [[User:Cinday123|Cinday123]] and others have said, just because you can't catch it in the Kalos region games doesn't mean you can't still obtain it. And that means, the information for Cottonee & Whimsicott are programmed in the games. So, I say let it be. [[User:DarienLeonhart|DarienLeonhart]] ([[User talk:DarienLeonhart|talk]]) 21:52, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

== Order ==

Is it just me or are the pokemon listed for gen VI out of order? Not like broken, but I see like 114 right after 93 and etc. ★☆[[User:Togetic45|'''Toge''']][[User talk:Togetic45|'''tic''']][[Special:Contributions/Togetic45|'''45''']]☆★ 18:58, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
:It's not out of order. Those are the Pokemon's Kalos Dex numbers. The list is ordered by the National Dex numbers. --[[User:Funktastic~!|'''It's''' '''Funktastic~!''']][[User talk:Funktastic~!|''話してください'']] 19:05, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

== Secret Gen 6 Pokemon ==

What about those secret Pokemon from Gen 6? The ones after Zygarde? Shouldn't they be on here now? [[User:MegaNerd18|MegaNerd18]] ([[User talk:MegaNerd18|talk]]) 11:36, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

:I'm so sorry, the Pokémon Company haven't revealed these mythical Pokémon so let's just leave it for now until it's revealed so we don't know yet. [[User:Cinday123|Cinday123]] ''([[User talk:Cinday123|Talk]])'' 12:24, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

Well I think the hacker who discovered the secret Pokemon is reliable because the Pokemon he found where: Hoopla, Volcanion, Daince, Fancy Vivillon, and the Mega Eon twins. Four out of six have revealed. If we do put in Hoopla and Volcaion when should put a little star (*) like on the list of Pokemon in the a area in the ranger game if you must release them after you catch them. --[[User:AbsolX|AbsolX]] ([[User talk:AbsolX|talk]]) 17:46, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

== Generation VI Sprites ==

Why there are no sprites for the new Pokémon introduced in X and Y? [[User:Dalton358|Dalton358]] ([[User talk:Dalton358|talk]]) 20:25, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
:Because we don't have them and we don't allow taking from other sites without permission. [[User:Glik|Glik]] ([[User talk:Glik|talk]]) 20:33, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
::I figured it would take longer to get them, because it's on a different system. I wonder how the other websites got their images. [[User:Dalton358|Dalton358]] ([[User talk:Dalton358|talk]]) 21:41, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
:::They have 3DS capture cards. Few Bulbapedia users do, and the only ones I've seen with them have been focusing on other things, like Trainer images. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 21:44, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

== Multiple Pokédeces in Generation VI ==
In the Generation VI, there are 3 Pokédeces: Kalos Central, Kalos Coastal and Kalos Mountain. For example:
# Chespin is Kalos Central #001
# Inkay is Kalos Coastal #010
# Goomy is Kalos Mountain #019
The list doesn't reflect it.

-[[User:Iosue|Iosue]] ([[User talk:Iosue|talk]]) 08:27, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
:That's because this is the National Pokédex list. You want [[List of Pokémon by Kalos Pokédex number]]. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 08:32, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
::Of course I understand that. I am not stupid. I can read. What I am suggesting is to add a very small token in front of each Kalos number to indicate if it is Central, Coastal or Mountain, as these are a part of the Generation VI dex. If there is no indication of the sub-region, the column of the table of Generation VI will have limited meaning here. I'd suggest you either delete the whole column, or add the small indication of which sub-region the number belongs to. -[[User:Iosue|Iosue]] ([[User talk:Iosue|talk]]) 04:39, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
:::This is still an issue. Scatterbug and Sligoo are still labeled with the same number in the Kalos Dex without distinction. Also, that column is labelled VIDex, which will be misleading with the release of ORAS. --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 06:55, 17 July 2014 (UTC)
::::I concur with the main issue. Don't write completely undifferentiated numbers as if all you have to do is scroll through one Pokedex to find any given Pokemon; that's not at all the case. Do something like this:
{{rdexh|X|Y|dexname={{color2|000|List of Pokémon by Kalos Pokédex number|VIdex}}}}
{{rdex|001Ce|650|Chespin|1|Grass}}
{{rdex|002Ce|651|Quilladin|1|Grass}}
|}
::::I would also strongly suggest linking the regional 'dex abbreviations in the headers so people can click on them and immediately jump to those 'dexes. (If this were done, this would make "VIdex" less "misleading".) I linked "VIdex" above, and I'll demonstrate the same for the other generations below...
{{rdexh|red|green|dexname={{color2|000|List of Pokémon by Kanto Pokédex number|Kdex}}}}
|}
{{rdexh|gold|silver|dexname={{color2|000|List of Pokémon by Johto Pokédex number|Jdex}}}}
|}
{{rdexh|ruby|sapphire|dexname={{color2|000|List of Pokémon by Hoenn Pokédex number|Hdex}}}}
|}
{{rdexh|diamond|pearl|dexname={{color2|000|List of Pokémon by Sinnoh Pokédex number|Sdex}}}}
|}
{{rdexh|black|white|dexname={{color2|000|List of Pokémon by Unova Pokédex number|Udex}}}}
|}
::::For that matter, I'd also suggest linking "Ndex" similarly in [[Template:Rdexh|the header template]] so it links easily back here on the regional 'dex pages. ...And "Type" could also be linked, just because it's the sort of thing that ''should'' be clickable. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 08:47, 17 July 2014 (UTC)
:::::This is still an issue. Scatterbug and Sligoo are still labeled with the same number in the Kalos Dex without distinction. Also, Diancie needs its Kalos Dex number added (#151 in Central). --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 09:43, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
::::::As Abcboy said, this remains an issue. I have taken the liberty of creating [[User:Tiddlywinks/List of Pokémon by National Pokédex number|a user page]] that fixes the main issue in this discussion. The page also incorporates my idea for 'dex links in the headers, as well as renames the Kalos section's table header from "VIdex", a name that is not proper considering the existence of ORAS now.
::::::I hope someone on staff will take a cursory look at my user page and then copy the code onto this page (give or take the headers, perhaps), so that this issue may finally be solved. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 21:58, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
:::::::Bump... [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 10:29, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

== Color ==

I noticed that the color coordination is not in accord with the Kalos National Pokédex. Shouldn't each region get the appropriate color attributed to them? [[User:Mr. Guye|Mr. Guye]] ([[User talk:Mr. Guye|talk]]) 20:57, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

:Interesting observation. I had never noticed the color coding in the Kalos National Pokédex before, but it's there, and is to my knowledge the first time an official source has used color coding to denote regions.
:Bulbapedia currently uses specific colors for regions, but this particular page uses the colors of the first games taking place in those regions. Perhaps the colors for the tables on this page should be replaced with the region colors. Meanwhile, replacing the region colors themselves with the ones in X and Y is a discussion that should take place but might be too big for this page. I would recommend taking that up with a staff member. --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] [[User talk:AndyPKMN|(talk)]] 18:36, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

== The icon for diancie. ==
Now that Diancie has been released, you guys need to update this page to contain the sprite for diancie so it is no longer a grey question mark. [[User:Randomviewer896|Random Viewer]]

== Flabébé line ==

We've done it for Shaymin, Burmy and Rotom (as well as others) and the sprites are in the Archives, so can an admin (since I can't edit the page) add on the different mini sprites of them, or explain to me why they aren't used on it? Thanks.--[[User:Ditto51|Ditto51/Tom]] ([[User_Talk:Ditto51|My Talk Page]]) 20:47, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

== Save space ==

Welcome. I got the idea, in which a list of Pokemon replace the tiles. It would have saved a lot of space and reduced the site to a minimum. Imagine this:
{|
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #001
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:001Bulbasaur.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Bulbasaur}}}}}
|-
| align=center style="{{roundybl|5px}} background:#{{Grass color}}" width=50% | [[Grass (type)|Grass]]
| align=center style="{{roundybr|5px}}; background:#{{Poison color}}" width=50% | [[Poison (type)|Poison]]
|}
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #002
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:002Ivysaur.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Ivysaur}}}}}
|-
| align=center style="{{roundybl|5px}} background:#{{Grass color}}" width=50% | [[Grass (type)|Grass]]
| align=center style="{{roundybr|5px}}; background:#{{Poison color}}" width=50% | [[Poison (type)|Poison]]
|}
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #003
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:003Venusaur.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Venusaur}}}}}
|-
| align=center style="{{roundybl|5px}} background:#{{Grass color}}" width=50% | [[Grass (type)|Grass]]
| align=center style="{{roundybr|5px}}; background:#{{Poison color}}" width=50% | [[Poison (type)|Poison]]
|}
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #004
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:004Charmander.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Charmander}}}}}
|-
| colspan=2 align=center style="{{roundybottom|5px}} background:#{{Fire color}}" | [[Fire (type)|Fire]]
|}
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #005
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:005Charmeleon.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Charmeleon}}}}}
|-
| colspan=2 align=center style="{{roundybottom|5px}} background:#{{Fire color}}" | [[Fire (type)|Fire]]
|}
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #006
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:006Charizard.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Charizard}}}}}
|-
| align=center style="{{roundybl|5px}} background:#{{Fire color}}" width=50% | [[Fire (type)|Fire]]
| align=center style="{{roundybr|5px}}; background:#{{Flying color}}" width=50% | [[Flying (type)|Flying]]
|}
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #007
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:007Squirtle.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Squirtle}}}}}
|-
| colspan=2 align=center style="{{roundybottom|5px}} background:#{{Water color}}" | [[Water (type)|Water]]
|}
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #008
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:008Wartortle.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Wartortle}}}}}
|-
| colspan=2 align=center style="{{roundybottom|5px}} background:#{{Water color}}" | [[Water (type)|Water]]
|}
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #009
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:009Blastoise.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Blastoise}}}}}
|-
| colspan=2 align=center style="{{roundybottom|5px}} background:#{{Water color}}" | [[Water (type)|Water]]
|}
|}

As you can see images of Pokémon will be bigger and will take less than half the length now. --[[User:Dominikololo|Dominikololo]] ([[User talk:Dominikololo|talk]]) 09:47, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

:I don't necessarily agree with this idea. It looks better and shows off a Pokémon's appearance in full instead of just resorting to the icon, yes, but it's a lot more complex to work with incase there's an error. If you want to make it, you can do it as a personal user page under something like [[User:Dominikololo/Visual National Pokédex]] just to give us a full example. [[User:Superjustinbros.|Superjustinbros.]] ([[User talk:Superjustinbros.|talk]]) 03:30, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

== Generation III ==

Considering the fact the Johto Pokédex part of the Gen II Pokémon section was updated to the newer version from HG/SS, it's probably best we update Hoenn's under the Gen III Pokémon section to the one from ΩR/αS. [[User:Nintendocan|Nintendocan]] ([[User talk:Nintendocan|talk]]) 00:17, 25 December 2014 (UTC)

== Hoopa Unbound and Dex numbers ==

Hoopa's Unbound form needs to be added. Diancie, Hoopa and Volcanion's Dex numbers also. [[User:Asmod96|Asmod96]] ([[User talk:Asmod96|talk]]) 16:09, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

{{rdexh|X|Y|VI}}
{{rdex|150|718|Zygarde|2|Dragon|Ground}}
{{rdex|151|719|Diancie|2|Rock|Fairy}}
{{rdex|152|720|Hoopa|2|Psychic|Ghost}}
{{rdex|152|720U|Hoopa|2|Psychic|Dark}}
{{rdex|153|721|Volcanion|2|Fire|Water}}
|}

== Sun and Moon Legendary Mascots ==

Can someone who has access to editing this page add [http://www.serebii.net/news/2016/20-April-2016.shtml Solgaleo and Lunaala] to the Gen VII list? They have been revealed along with the Alola starters, but remained nameless in the video. --[[User:PKMNAdventurer|PKMNAdventurer]] ([[User talk:PKMNAdventurer|talk]]) 23:16, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
:As you say, they are nameless. Until there is confirmation, we will not be assuming their names. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 23:26, 10 May 2016 (UTC)

== Charjabug and Vikavolt ==

Shouldn't Charjabug and Vikavolt be immediately after Grubbin, seeing as they're its evolutions? [[User:Pokemega32|Pokemega32]] ([[User talk:Pokemega32|talk]]) 13:55, 1 July 2016 (UTC)
:I noticed that too; I think whoever renamed/added them meant to move both Rockruff and Komala down, but somehow missed Rockruff... [[User:AmoongussForLife|AmoongussForLife]] ([[User talk:AmoongussForLife|talk]]) 14:14, 1 July 2016 (UTC)
::Just went to look at it and it seems SnorlaxMonster got it covered. Thanks for pointing it out. Too bad we don't know anything about their official numbering yet, but I guess they want to keep some things (how many 'Mons, for instance" a secret, so meh. [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 17:32, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

== Hippowdon ==

If Unfezant and Frillish line are included twice for both genders, shouldn't Hippowdon be added as well? Their appearance is quite different as well.
Same goes for several other cases, if Hoopa and Meloetta have their forms added, why not Keldeo or Kami trio? Who decides what should appear and what shouldn't, and by what rule??? {{unsigned|KingisNitro}}
:The Hippos, it may be because official art (see [[Hippopotas (Pokémon)]], the big image at the top) AFAIK has never depicted the female forms, while for {{p|Frillish}} and {{p|Unfezant}} it has.
:The difference between Hoopa and Meoetta vs Keldeo and the Kami trio may be that the former change types when they change form. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 16:35, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
::Another contributing reason is that the game does not have gender-specific menu sprites for the Hippopotas family. Together with the lack of a type difference between genders, adding a seperate row for the other gender will not accomplish anything content-wise. [[User:Chenzw|Chenzw]] ([[User talk:Chenzw|talk]]) 16:49, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
:::Basculin is also listed twice, by the way. Vivillon, that also changes menu sprite depending on forms, is only included once (understandably because of how many form differences it has).
:::I mean I was mostly asking, so thanks for "justifying" it. Also, regarding whether it adds anything content-wise - except for the type changing forms, nothing really adds any content (Frillish, Hippos, Unfezant, Basculin, Vivillon), which is why I was puzzled. Didn't seem like there was any actual reason to include multiples. But I guess Sugimori arts are a good enough reason (I just couldn't figure it out). {{unsigned|KingisNitro}}

== Alolan ==

Someone needs to add the recently revealed Pokemon, which I assume would include Alolan Forms (as they all change type.) [[User:AmoongussForLife|AmoongussForLife]] ([[User talk:AmoongussForLife|talk]]) 17:32, 1 August 2016 (UTC)

:No, I think this page is better suited for the Pokémon with their natural Pokémon types to help prevent the page from getting too messy or confusing. This is why separate sub-pages are better suited to handling this such as the [[Mega Evolution]] page. -[[User:Tyler53841|Tyler53841]] ([[User talk:Tyler53841|talk]]) 00:37, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
::FWIW, the Alola Forms' types are no less natural than the forms we've always known. That said, we haven't yet decided whether we want the Alola Forms here or not. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 00:41, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
:::I would think that the Alolan Forms should be added, as the type changes, it appears the Pokémon don't switch between the two (an Ice/Fairy Ninetales would have Ice Vulpix), and multiple entries are added for Darmanitan, which is a similar case. I suppose the second point is mostly speculation at this point, though, but I don't think it would hurt the page overall. [[User:AmoongussForLife|AmoongussForLife]] ([[User talk:AmoongussForLife|talk]]) 01:06, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

== Wimpod's types ==

[[Wimpod]]'s types are Bug/Water, not Water/Bug. Someone should fix it. --[[User:RafaelGN|RafaelGN]] ([[User talk:RafaelGN|talk]]) 03:09, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
:Fixed. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 03:23, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

== Wishiwashi, Pyukumuku, and Morelull ==

This page still lists the japanese names even though the English names are revealed and confirmed and the pages for them use the English names. [[User:AztecCroc|AztecCroc]] ([[User talk:AztecCroc|talk]]) 14:16, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

== Rugarugan ==

Someone needs to add Rugarugan after Rockruff; it's been over a day. [[User:AmoongussForLife|AmoongussForLife]] ([[User talk:AmoongussForLife|talk]]) 17:19, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
:I will try see if I can. [[User:Awesomevenustoise101|Awesomevenustoise101]] ([[User talk:Awesomevenustoise101|talk]]) 17:22, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
::never mind I didn't know that the page is protected. [[User:Awesomevenustoise101|Awesomevenustoise101]] ([[User talk:Awesomevenustoise101|talk]]) 17:23, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
:::It hasn't been added because there is no page for it and it hasn't been officially revealed, it was leaked. The admins know what they are doing and it will be added when it gets added. --[[User:HoennMaster|Hoenn]][[User talk:HoennMaster|Master]] 17:25, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

== why is this page protected? ==

why is this page protected? I want to add Rugarugan after Rockruff but I can't. [[User:Awesomevenustoise101|Awesomevenustoise101]] ([[User talk:Awesomevenustoise101|talk]]) 17:25, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
:Most of the time it doesn't need to be changed, and when it does, we don't want people jumping the gun on rumors and stuff. Things like this we (as staff) update it when it's appropriate to do so. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 17:48, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

== Rowlet National dex number and menu sprites ==

On the [http://www.pokemon-sunmoon.com/en-us/pokemon-bank/ Pokémon Bank page] on the official site, menu sprites for several Gen VII Pokémon have been shown, and Rowlet have been confirmed as #722. Here's direct links for the relevant images: [http://www.pokemon-sunmoon.com/media/uploads/sept_20_assets/screenshots/top/sept20_p12_01_en.png Top screen], [http://www.pokemon-sunmoon.com/media/uploads/sept_20_assets/screenshots/bottom/sept20_p12_01_en.png Bottom screen] - [[User:RHeegaard|RHeegaard]] ([[User talk:RHeegaard|talk]]) 00:21, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

:I'm assuming that the reason only Rowlet, Litten, Popplio, and Pikipek were uploaded is because they are the only ones with numbers (I am curious where you got official evidence of Litten, Popplio, and Pikipek's numbers though?), but would it not be possible to upload the others as "DrampaMS.png" and such so that they can be listed? It would make the table easier to read, I think. It's also what we do with artwork (whereas Pikachu's artwork is [[a:File:025Pikachu.png|File:025Pikachu.png]], Drampa's is [[a:File:Drampa.png|File:Drampa.png]]), so it's not like it goes against Bulbapedia's other efforts. [[User:Nutter Butter|Nutter Butter]] ([[User talk:Nutter Butter|talk]]) 03:05, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
::In large part, most places where menu sprites are used simply ''cannot'' accomodate filenames like DrampaMS (this page being an excellent example of such a place). The few places it might be usable aren't really worth it. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 03:20, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

== Additions ==

Can we add: [[Steenee (Pokémon)]], [[Tsareena (Pokémon)]], [[Hakamo-o (Pokémon)]], [[Ribombee (Pokémon)]]? [[User:Kidburla|Kidburla]] ([[User talk:Kidburla|talk]]) 14:01, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
:They've already been added. --[[User:Carmenstar97|Carmen★]] ''[[User talk:Carmenstar97|(Talk |]] [[Special:Contributions/Carmenstar97|contribs)]]'' 14:02, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
::Thanks. Seems they were added while I was typing the post. [[User:Kidburla|Kidburla]] ([[User talk:Kidburla|talk]]) 16:44, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
:::For future reference, if you just wait, someone will almost assuredly get to it soon enough. (I mean, if someone asked this every time there was a new reveal, this page would probably quickly end up bloated.) If it's 24 hours later, ''then'' it's late. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 16:50, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

== Oricorio ==

How come {{p|Castform}} has all of its forms on the list but {{p|Oricorio}} doesn't? --[[User:PKMNAdventurer|PKMNAdventurer]] ([[User talk:PKMNAdventurer|talk]]) 00:06, 6 January 2017 (UTC)
:Personally, it could be due to the criteria, but I cannot tell. So, here is a hopefully complete list of what Pokémon with multiple menu sprites appear and which do not.
:From the group that does appear: Unfezant (Gender difference), Frillish (Gender), Jellicent (Gender), Castform (Ability), Deoxys (Form), Burmy (Form), Wormadam (Form), Shellos (Form), Gastrodon (Form), Rotom (Form), Giratina (Item), Shaymin (Item), Basculin (Form), Darmanitan (Ability), Meloetta (Move), Hoopa (Item), All Alolan Pokémon (Form)
:From the group that does ''not'' appear: Pyroar (Gender difference), Meowstic (Gender), Ash-Greninja (Ability), Zygarde (Forme), Kyurem (Item), Cosplay Pikachu (Form), Pikachu (Unknown), Spiky-eared Pichu (Form), Unown (Form), Cherrim (Ability), Arceus (Item), Flabébé (Form), Floette (Form), Florges (Form), Deerling (Form), Sawsbuck (Form), Tornadus (Item), Thundurus (Item), Landorus (Item), Keldeo (Move), Vivillon (Form), Furfrou (Form), Aegislash (Ability), Oricorio (Item), Silvally (Item), Minior (Ability), All Mega/Primal Evolution Pokémon (Item/Move),
:...So, basically, I would guess that this might have been potentially overlooked. Who is to say? Granted, I do understand that Unown, Vivillon, Arceus, and Silvally likely are excluded for a good reason. --[[User:Super goku|Super goku]] ([[User talk:Super goku|talk]]) 07:19, 6 January 2017 (UTC)
::IMO, there definitely should be Oricorio with all its form, I thought that only forms with different type combination are added, but if there are also some gender differences... I even think there should be Mega Evolutions, if we will be adding forms. [[User:Asmod96|Asmod96]] ([[User talk:Asmod96|talk]]) 08:13, 16 February 2017 (UTC)
:::Most of these are probably missing because, as was mentioned in my "Hippowdon" question, they don't have official Sugimori art. Frillish has official art for both genders, while Hippowdon doesn't, hence it doesn't get two pictures. P weird reasonong, but I guess it works; Oricorio DOES have official art (in fact, most mentioned Pokemon do) and the forms change typing (good enough reason if you ask me), so I think someone should add them. Also, why can't we merge the forms into a single line (similarly to [[Pokémon with unique type combinations]] page)? {{unsigned|KingisNitro}}
::::The most important thing to remember, I think, is that this is a list of Pokémon species. It's not a list of minisprites. It's not even a list of Pokémon's types—those are included supplementarily. And it's ''certainly'' not a list of Ken Sugimori art.
::::On that note, I think the inclusion and exclusion of form differences should follow a less horrendously arbitrary standard. Either A) all forms with unique minisprites or types are included, or B) only one form per species is included, determined by a consistent criterion. If we go with A, I absolutely agree with KingisNitro that they should be merged into a single row, since it makes no sense to list the same species multiple times in a list of species. If we go B, I propose that the criterion be "whichever form is leftmost in Pokémon Bank's National Pokédex", since this is consistently a form that can be considered the most basic or "default".
::::So the question is, A or B? Should we put it up to a vote? [[User:Randomwaffle23|Randomwaffle23]] ([[User talk:Randomwaffle23|talk]]) 02:27, 4 September 2017 (UTC)
:::::I am going to mention that this technically is over six month old, but I will say that if anyone wants to put this up for a vote or needs to make a new section to discuss this can go ahead. Though, I do want to note that we now have issues with Pokémon like Togekiss who have two menu sprites just for which side they are facing. --[[User:Super goku|Super goku]] ([[User talk:Super goku|talk]]) 07:05, 14 September 2017 (UTC)
:This is still not "fixed". If castform's forms count then I really do think many of the others should be included as well. Maybe not all Unown or Vivillon forms since they're purely cosmetic. I do think forms that change type or stats should be included (like Necrozma or Zygarde forms...) -[[User:Jor1ss|Jor1ss]] ([[User talk:Jor1ss|talk]]) 17:04, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
::So, personally, I'm sorry that this keeps getting forgotten. On the other hand, even now, I can't muster enough of myself to "care" about it to check everything and do it up right... If someone wants to create a user page, we can look at it and see what's different and decide how much should be added. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 22:44, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
:::I'd love to help with adding them but maybe I can't because my account is only 1 day old? I'm also not sure what having a userpage would do for adding to the list? Isn't a userpage just a page for each user? I'm very new here so I don't really know what to do sorry. -[[User:Jor1ss|Jor1ss]] ([[User talk:Jor1ss|talk]]) 06:48, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

==Alola==

At the very top of the page, it still doesn't list Alola with the rest of the regions. [[User:AmoongussForLife|AmoongussForLife]] ([[User talk:AmoongussForLife|talk]]) 10:53, 17 January 2017 (UTC)

== Alolan Pokedex number of new Pokemon ==

The ADex numbers of Poipole, Naganadel, Stakataka, Blacephalon, and Zeraora should be changed to 261, 262, 392, 393, and 403 respectively. [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 18:13, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
:I'm not sure if this kind of a "noisy post" or "bump" is allowed, but I need to somehow get someone to pay attention to this. [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 02:00, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

== Gliscor sprite missing ==

the Gliscor Sprite is missing, can't edit to put it in [[User:Yamitora1|Yamitora1]] ([[User talk:Yamitora1|talk]]) 17:57, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

That's just an error on your end. [[User:AztecCroc|AztecCroc]] ([[User talk:AztecCroc|talk]]) 22:04, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

== Spin-off Pokedexes? ==

Sort of an off-topic but idk where else to ask; do we have Pokedexes for side/spin-off games (Rumble, Mystery Dungeon, Pinball, Ranger, Trozei/Shuffle...)? I think it would be neat to list the Pokemon with places to find them/other important information. If so - where, if not - why? If I made them on my page, could they be added to Bulba? (Where else can I ask this question?) ~[[User:KingisNitro|'''KingisNitro''']] ([[User talk:KingisNitro|talk]]) 01:04, 12 November 2018 (UTC)
:As seen in the List of Pokémon template below the articles, yes, we do have Pokédex listing of other/spin-off games. Unless there's another listing you want to suggest.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 03:32, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

== Meltan and Melmetal should not be under "generation VII" category ==

Officially, meltan and melmetal are under the region "unknown" and as such they should both be under that new category. furthermore, their pokedex numbers are 808 and 809 officially too.
{{unsigned|Supermassimo}}
:Well, I see what you mean but this list is sorted by generation. And those Pokémon were indeed introduced in the generation it says they were. --[[User:Raltseye|Raltseye]] [[User talk:Raltseye|prata med mej]] 14:08, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

::By that logic though, shouldn't Marill and Togepi be listed as generation 1 pokemon, Munchlax as a generation 3 pokemon and Magearna as a generation 6 pokemon? In fact, every single generation other than the first had a pokemon revealed in some medium before the release of the main games and this is especially true of mythicals. (Victini is in a similar situation to Meltan being listed just after the gen 4 mythicals and before the gen 5 starters even though it is considered gen 5 itself)

::In fact, the only difference is that all these other pokemon were typically revealed in movies or the anime whereas Meltan/Melmetal are playable in Pokemon Go/Let's Go. That said, these are still just spinoff games (which actually don't even have any other gen 7 pokemon in them other than alolan forms) and neither Meltan nor Melmetal are available in any mainline gen 7 games. Finally, Pokemon Go goes as far as to classify Meltan's region as "Unknown" whereas it could have easily been listed as Alola if it was intended to be a gen 7 pokemon. (And Magearna has nothing to do with either Kalos nor Alola but is still classified as "Gen 7" in the Sun/Moon pokedex.

::Sorry, for the long rant but my point is that strictly speaking the situation for Meltan/Melmetal is "Unknown" and ideally this should be reflected on the page to avoid speculating. However, if people insist on assigning a region/generation to it, I think it's far more likely to be "Galar"/"Gen 8" and not "Alola". Just my 2 cents. [[User:MCX|MCX]] ([[User talk:MCX|talk]]) 21:52, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
:::I would agree with your logic if not for your assumption that LGPE are not mainline games. They are core Pokémon games, which has been reiterated multiple times by Masuda and the others at GF. Since they’re catchable and playable in a mainline Gen VII game, they’re Gen VII Pokémon. That’s what separates them from cases like Bonsly, which I think would have been a much better example than Marill or Munchlax. --[[User:Celadonkey|celadonk]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 12:47, 18 March 2019 (UTC)
::::I'm still not convinced that it's relevant nor that it's the case that LGPE are core titles. I'm not sure which interview you are referring to when saying that Masuda has stated that LGPE are core games but afaik Sword and Shield were first announced as the unnamed 2019 mainline Switch games in e3 2017. Then LGPE were announced at a later time and people were giving GF crap until they clarified that LGPE weren't the same as the previously announced 2019 titles. Correct me if I remember any of this incorrectly but if not, this would indicate that LGPE are something less than core games. If LGPE are core games that's the equivalent of GF announcing Sun/Moon after XY and then saying "oh btw, before SM we are gonna release gen 3 remakes, they aren't the same games as SM, we just thought we should announce gen 7 first." Yeah, LGPE are much closer gameplay-wise to the core games than, say, mystery dungeon or pokemon pinball but they are also not quite there.

::::Moreover, even if Masuda has said in an interview "LGPE are core titles", I'm still not sure if that is relevant in classifying Meltan's gen. LGPE don't have Crobat or Electivire or any gen 2-7 pokemon but they have Megas and Alolan forms and Meltan. This is just a weird situation where they used Meltan as a promo thing - not at all an indication that it's gen 7. They've even dropped mainline mechanics like breeding and abilities... Meltan being there doesn't conclusively prove anything. I doubt we will get any official statement like "Btw Meltan belongs in X gen" but we are still probably going to get a conclusive answer when they colour code Meltan along with either the gen 7 or gen 8 pokemon in some future title's pokedex. I'm just saying that until then we should keep its status as "Unknown" because that's what it currently is. [[User:MCX|MCX]] ([[User talk:MCX|talk]]) 23:49, 26 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::You can check the interview section in the LGPE guidebook if you don't believe that he explicitly has said that they're core titles. "These games aren't spinoffs. These are core Pokémon titles" is the exact quote. Since Meltan and Melmetal appeared in Gen 7 core titles, they're Gen 7 Pokemon. Simple enough. If for whatever reason they change that, then we'll change that too. But we don't really have any reason to believe otherwise. --[[User:Celadonkey|celadonk]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 23:56, 26 March 2019 (UTC)

== Request to add Trivia section ==

I would like to see a Trivia section added to the bottom of the list, with the following single item:

* With the sole exception of {{p|Type: Null}}, all English Pokémon names in this list are also used for Italian and Spanish languages. The names for '''Type: Null''' in Italian and Spanish are, respectively, ''Tipo Zero'' and ''Código Cero''.

This is to avoid the need for any separate '''List of Italian Pokémon names''' and '''List of Spanish Pokémon names''' pages that would differ from this English page by ONLY ONE ROW. ''(Currently, those two page titles are redirects to the English list.)'' --[[User:SilSinn9801|''SilSinn'']] ([[TID]]s: '''768426[[Pokémon Sun|S]]''', '''123446[[Pokémon Ultra Moon|UM]]''') ([[User talk:SilSinn9801|talk]]) 10:01, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

==Gen 8 Starters==
Grookey, Scorbunny, and Sobble would be National Pokedex 810, 813, and 816. Can these numbers please be added? [[User:Kimichael4317|Kimichael4317]] ([[User talk:Kimichael4317|talk]]) 05:38, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
:We do not actually ''know'' that so no, they won't be added. --[[User:Raltseye|Raltseye]] [[User talk:Raltseye|prata med mej]] 05:43, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
::We have no guarantee as to whether there would be another Victini-like scenario where a Mythical Pokémon would be enumerated right before the starters (as happened in Unova, twice). Hence why we cannot safely assume 810, 813, 816 – it could end up being 811, 814, 817. ‑‑[[User:SilSinn9801|''SilSinn'']] ([[TID]]s: '''768426[[Pokémon Sun|S]]''', '''123446[[Pokémon Ultra Moon|UM]]''') [[User talk:SilSinn9801|💬]] 07:52, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

== Zekrom has an extra space next to his name. ==

That is all. {{unsigned|MrKarato}}
:Fixed. And don't forget to sign your comments.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 06:01, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

== Handling forms + smaller suggestions ==

As far as I can tell there's no pattern to how forms are handled on this page. Some Pokémon with alternate forms or major gender differences have their forms present, others do not. Frankly, since it’s a list of Pokémon species according to their number, no Pokémon with form differences should be even included in a different line. Either the alternate forms should be removed entirely, only including the “base” form, or the lines should be combined like on List of Pokémon with unique type combinations. Personally, I'd prefer to have no forms displayed-- it would make the page a whole lot cleaner and easier to use-- but I can see the purpose of displaying forms, so I think that something like this would be best:

{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{firered color}}; background: #{{firered color}}"
! style="{{roundytl|5px}}; background: #{{leafgreen color light}}" | Kdex
! style="background: #{{leafgreen color light}}" | Ndex
! style="background: #{{leafgreen color light}}" | MS
! style="background: #{{leafgreen color light}}" | Pokémon
! style="{{roundytr|5px}}; background: #{{leafgreen color light}}" colspan="2" | Type</noinclude>
|- style="background:#FFF"
| rowspan="2" style="font-family:monospace" | <nowiki>#</nowiki>026
| rowspan="2" style="font-family:monospace" | <nowiki>#</nowiki>026
| {{MSP|026|Raichu}}
| rowspan="2" | {{p|Raichu}}
| colspan="2" style="text-align:center; background:#{{electric color}}" | [[Electric (type)|Electric]]
|- style="background:#FFF"
| {{MSP|026A|Raichu}}
| style="text-align:center; background:#{{electric color}}" | [[Electric (type)|Electric]]
| style="text-align:center; background:#{{psychic color}}" | [[Psychic (type)|Psychic]]
|}

Again, I think that not displaying forms would be the best way to go, but either way, the current system of handling forms is unsatisfactory, both in the inconsistency between which forms are shown and which are not, and in the actual formatting of the forms.

Additionally, I have two smaller suggestions. First, I believe that it would be better to display the National Pokédex number before the regional Pokédex number, rather than vice versa, as this is a page on the National Pokédex, and that should take priority. Second, at the end of each section, there is no roundy template on the bottom, as you can see above, which makes the bottom of each section square and not as aesthetically pleasing. --[[User:Celadonkey|celadonk]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 20:05, 29 March 2019 (UTC)

The problem with formes/forms is that there's many different kinds of forms. There's only visual forms (most male female differences/unown forms etc) and there's forms where the stats change (meowstic male/female for instance). There's forms where the typing changes (Wormadom/Necrozma's various forms). There's temporary forms that are only visible in battle (megas/greninja/cherubi). There's temporary forms that are changed by using an item or by depositing the pokemon or by whatever arbitrary reason (giratina/tornadus etc.). There's also regional forms, where a pokemon cannot change to the other form but is basically a different pokemon altogether (alolan and soon galarian forms). Maybe the list should just include all the base forms? And then there could be a seperate table listing all the additional forms for a pokemon?[[User:Jor1ss|Jor1ss]] ([[User talk:Jor1ss|talk]]) 12:40, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

== Information to readers ==

I want to modify the title section, but I have no permission. Could someone add the sentence “All English, Italian and Spanish Pokémon names are identical, but, depending on the language, they're pronounced differently.”? --[[User:TheICTLiker4|'''TheICT''']][[User talk:TheICTLiker4|'''Liker4''']] 18:19, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
:That's not relevant to the article at all.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 04:13, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
::Well, most european languages use the same names as the English version anyway, in fact only German and French are the the ones that consistently differ. Unless you count the languages that use a different alphabet, only Serbian, Lithuanian and some more perhaps are the only ones that does not use the standard English names instead transcribing it to their own orthography. So I see no really point in mentioned them all here. A simple line like <code>most other languages using the Latin alphabet also uses these names</code> would suffice in my opinion.
::I'm thinking maybe if it's okay with the staff around to make redirect for <code>List of Swedish/Icelandic/Spanish/Romanian/etc. Pokémon names</code> to this page.
::Otherwise, if you're interested, at least one Spanish and Italian name do actually differ from the English name, {{p|Type: Null}}. I've made list articles about which names I have found being used in other languages [[User:Raltseye/Template:Pokelist|here]].
::--[[User:Raltseye|Raltseye]] [[User talk:Raltseye|prata med mej]] 13:43, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

== Yamper and Impidimp ==

They're not on here for some reason? Can someone who can edit this page fix that?[[User:AztecCroc|AztecCroc]] ([[User talk:AztecCroc|talk]]) 13:33, 15 June 2019 (UTC)

== Aug 7 Trailer - New Pokémon ==

In the newest trailer, two new Pokémon (Obstagoon and Morpeko), as well as the Galarian forms of Weezing, Zigzagoon, and Linoone were revealed. I don't see them listed on this page yet, those Impidimp, which has still not been officially revealed is. [[User:CMP|CMP]] ([[User talk:CMP|talk]]) 18:46, 9 August 2019 (UTC)

== Missing ==

Currently, Galarian Meowth is missing from this list. [[User:MarioMiner|MarioMiner]] ([[User talk:MarioMiner|talk]]) 03:00, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

== Dex Shortcuts ==

Can we get the dex shortcuts removed or redirected correctly? They're just redirecting to the top of this page. [[User:Joe kik as|Joe kik as]] ([[User talk:Joe kik as|talk]]) 17:33, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
:That's the point of the shortcuts. They're just redirects of this article, and they're there for reference.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 04:32, 15 January 2020 (UTC)
::But why is it at the top of the page if it's just redirecting to the top. If anything it should redirect to different pages corresponding to those links. [[User:Joe kik as|Joe kik as]] ([[User talk:Joe kik as|talk]]) 16:32, 15 January 2020 (UTC)
:::I already said why, they're there for reference. To let users know which shortcut to type out in the search bar if they wanted to find this article easier (since typing out the entire title would be a hassle). The other dex listings also have shortcuts that lead to their respective articles.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 16:55, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

== Ndex as the first column ==

I think the Ndex number should probably be the first column. This is the main subject of this list.

The Ndex is currently the 2nd column, which seems like a secondary position. (even though in the case of the first 151 Pokémon, the numbers are the same) --[[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 10:14, 31 January 2020 (UTC)
:{{template|rdex}} is convenient. I don't think it's that big an issue to make another template just for this. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 03:23, 1 February 2020 (UTC)
::I'm with Daniel here. This is a list of Pokemon by National Pokedex number. Surely that should be the primary focus. --[[User:Celadonkey|celadonk]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 18:19, 1 February 2020 (UTC)
:::I could do the job of creating a new template and editing this page if this idea is accepted. It could be simply a new template based on {{template|rdex}} with reverse parameters. A possible name could be {{template|nrdex}} (since {{template|ndex}} is taken) .--[[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 00:50, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
::::The header is the only thing here that would need to be changed if this were to be done. --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 01:05, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
:::::Aside from that, we may also want to reverse the order of the numbers for each Pokémon in [[List of Pokémon by National Pokédex number]], to make the wikitext match the resulting page. I can do this if needed. --[[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 02:38, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

== Pokémon with different forms not present in the list ==

I don't understand the criteria for Pokémon with different forms, by the type of them:

Gender differences : We do not include the forms of Indeedee, Pyroar and Meowstic, But we allow Unfezant, Frillish and Jellycent?

Different permanent forms but with the same typing: Lycanrock and Toxtricity. But it allows other permanent forms, e.g. Shellos, Gastrodont and Basculin.

Different Forms and different types: Kyurem and Necruzma. But allows Castform, Rotom, Melloeta, Hoopa, Shaymin and Oricorio.

Different Battle forms but same types: Wishiwashi, Cherrim, Landorus, Thundurus, Tornadus, Kyurem, Keldeo, Greninja, Zygarde and Minior are not included. But Deoxis and Gyratina are on the list.

No applicable to the above criteria: Unown, Arceus, Deerling, Sawsbuck, Vivillon, The Flabébé Family and Furfrou. But we do have Burmy and Wormadam and Urshifu. (I understand that the Pokémon in this las criteria have a lot of forms, and that the reason of not their including is for space and order in the page)

Can some one please explain me the criteria for allowing the different forms selection?

--Neos 10:19, April 16 2020 (UTC)
:Yeah, it does seem rather arbitrary to me.

:I think I've mentioned this above but this page is a list of Pokemon by number first and foremost. Including forms at all, imo, muddles the numbering up, at least for me. --[[User:Celadonkey|celadonk]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 13:48, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

::I think we should take out the unnecessary forms --[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 00:36, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

== You forgot NDex# of Galarian Slowking ==

Force Fire: You added NDex numbers for Galarian forms of Slowbro & the Legendary Birds (even if no menu sprites exist for them yet), but you forgot Galarian Slowking:
<pre>{{rdex||???|Slowking|1|???}}</pre>
Given this page is protected, I cannot change the page myself; could you please provisionally change that line to:
<pre>{{rdex||199G|Slowking|1|???}}</pre>
‐⁠‑''[[User:SilSinn9801|SilSinn]]'' ([[TID]]s: '''768426[[Pokémon Sun|S]]''', '''123446[[Pokémon Ultra Moon|UM]]''') [[User talk:SilSinn9801|💬]] 17:01, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
:Fixed --[[User:Spriteit|Spriteit]] ([[User talk:Spriteit|talk]]) 01:21, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
::This page needs to be edited as Galarian Slowking's type was confirmed to be Poison/Psychic like Galarian Slowbro was. [[User:Kangaflora|Kangaflora]] ([[User talk:Kangaflora|talk]]) 19:01, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

== 891-893 ==

Pokemon Home's Pokedex , after this morning's patch, seems to confirm that Kubfu, Urshifu, and Zarude are numbers 891, 892, and 893 respectively. That is all. Sorry if this text is really big for some reason.{{unsigned|Zigzagoon97}}

== (Understandable) Style Inconsistencies ==

To be consistent with the style of the page before the Crown Tundra was released, only Calyrex's base form should be present, as neither Kyurem (which, admittedly, does not change type) nor Necrozma (which does change type, and thus should be treated exactly the same way as Calyrex) have their fusion forms present on this list. Alternatively, including Necrozma's forms, and possibly Kyurem's forms, would solve this issue. [[User:MarioMiner|MarioMiner]] ([[User talk:MarioMiner|talk]]) 22:58, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
:Another style inconsistency - in the Generation IV section of the page, Heatran, Regigigas, Cresselia, Phione, Darkrai, Shaymin, and Arceus, the Gen IV Pokémon without Sinnoh Pokédex numbers, have their portions of the "Sdex" column blank. However, Meltan, Melmetal, Kubfu, Urshifu, Zarude, Regieleki, Regidrago, Glastrier, Spectrier, and Calyrex, all Pokémon that do not appear in their respective generations' regional Pokédexes, have "#---" in their regional Pokédex (Adex for Meltan and Melmetal, Gdex for the rest) columns. [[User:MarioMiner|MarioMiner]] ([[User talk:MarioMiner|talk]]) 00:06, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

== Zygarde's Forms ==
Zygard seems to be the only Pokémon currently missing alternate forms.
[[User:RomajiMiltonAmulo|RomajiMiltonAmulo]] ([[User talk:RomajiMiltonAmulo|talk]]) 01:45, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

== Legends: Arceus Pokémon ==

Are the Pokémon and Regional Forms that were shown in the new [[Pokémon Legends: Arceus]] trailer going to be added now or when the game releases? -[[User:Ratboy Jr.|Ratboy Jr.]] ([[User talk:Ratboy Jr.|talk]]) 22:40, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

== Mega Aerodactyl needs to be added. ==

A couple Megas were forgotten to be added. Could you please scout through and add them? {{unsigned|Necrozma800}}
:They are left out for a reason, Mega Evolutions are not completely new species, they are a transformed state of the same base species.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 07:06, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

== Legends arceus pokemon ==

We need numbers for Basculegion, wyrdeer, Kleavor, we need these pokemon added Overqwil, Enamorus, Ursaluna, and Sneasler. Dex numbers (national) are : 899 is Wyrdeer 900 is Kleavor 901 is Ursaluna 902 is Basculegion 903 is Sneasler 904 is Overqwil, 905 is Enamorus, so yeah [[User:ItsRobloxHere|ItsRobloxHere]] ([[User talk:ItsRobloxHere|talk]]) 00:24, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

== H.Goodra's typing ==

it should be Steel/Dragon, not Dragon/Steel.
[[User:Anzasquiddles|Anzasquiddles]] ([[User talk:Anzasquiddles|talk]]) 05:56, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

== Hisuian Braviary's MSP, and Origin Formes for Dialga and Palkia ==

Well, the second point is more of a question. I see there's plenty of contention on the matter of form-inclusion, but Giratina's Origin Forme is on the list so I thought I'd mention it.
[[User:Pichugetic|Pichugetic]] ([[User talk:Pichugetic|talk]]) 01:06, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

: Oh, just noticed: also Hisuian Avalugg. [[User:Pichugetic|Pichugetic]] ([[User talk:Pichugetic|talk]]) 07:31, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

== Unfezant, Frillish and Jellycent: only one entry per Pokémon? ==

For the majority of Pokémon, only the male appearence is shown. However, it does not apply for Shellos, Gastrodon, Unfezant, Frillish and Jellycent. Shellos and Gastrodon are region-based in several (all?) games, so displaying both appearances is justified, but it does not apply for Unfezant, Frillish and Jellycent. So is there something special about those 3 Pokémon that grants 2 entries for each of them in the list? [[User:Y2110|Y2110]] ([[User talk:Y2110|talk]]) 11:42, 21 May 2022 (UTC)

EDIT: Oh, it has already been discussed on this page. My bad

== 3D Sprites ==
[[File:001MS8.png|thumb|right|68px|SwSh Bulbasaur (68px)]]
[[File:902MS.png|thumb|right|68px|PLA Basculegion (68px)]]
[[File:HOME001.png|thumb|right|60px|HOME Bulbasaur (60px)]]
[[File:HOME902.png|thumb|right|60px|HOME Basculegion (60px)]]

Why have the 2D sprites been changed to the 3D Pokemon Home ones? The 3D sprites mesh horribly with the tables and lists, take up too much space, and have too much color and detail making it hard to focus on anything but the sprites themselves. I can understand wanting to upgrade but sometimes less is more especially for someone who has sensitive eyes or ADHD. There could at least be an option to select whether you what to view 2D or 3D sprites.[[User:Strawhatroger|Strawhatroger]] ([[User talk:Strawhatroger|talk]]) 16:57, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
:It's a necessity. We already had too much inconsistency between sprites from SwSh, LGPE, PLA and older ones, soon we'll get another ones for SV which would make it even worse. Fortunately HOME sprite are very consistent and exist for alternate forms. They don't take more space because previously we already had big 68px squares.--'''[[User:Team Rocket Grunt|Rocket]] [[User talk:Team Rocket Grunt|Grunt]]''' 17:34, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

The HOME sprites pop out way too much and are too bright hurting my eyes making it very difficult to do thing like look at lists without straining my eyes.[[User:Strawhatroger|Strawhatroger]] ([[User talk:Strawhatroger|talk]]) 17:55, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

::I've added some Bulbasaur and Basculegion image examples at the top of this discussion now.
::As TRG was saying, the list with 2D sprites was using inconsistent styles (including 2D sprites from SwSh like that Bulbasaur, and 3D face portraits from PLA like that Basculegion). We may have 2D sprites for most of the currently available Pokémon, but not all of them.
::Since you mentioned the size, let me point out that those 2D sprites typically were 68px images with white space around the Pokémon (a lot of white space in my opinion). I've changed them to those 3D images with 60px size, so they are occupying less space than before.
::For instance, it seems there are at least 1,000 lines on these tables, so the page should be approximately 8,000 pixels shorter than before with the current 3D sprites.
::Although to be fair, the image size can be changed in the template so it could become smaller or larger if needed. If anyone thinks that the 2D sprites with a lot of whitespace around looked good, it's also possible to add whitespace around the 3D images (without needing to edit the images). --[[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 18:43, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

:::Did someone reverted the 3D sprites? now they are back to the 2D ones.
:::I really support the idea of using the HOME menu sprites for this page and for what I have seen in the latest SV trailers the classic Menu minisprites are now gone. So by using as the source of sprites HOME we will be sure that's there will be a unify menu art style. --[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 21:57, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

::::Yes. The change was reverted back to the 2D sprites, pending further discussion. Sorry for the trouble. --[[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 23:01, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

Finally! Someone who actually listens to other people's opinions and uses common sense. I've looked at any trailer and screenshot of SV I could find and if anything it looks like 2D sprites will be returning, and if it really comes down to it perhaps we can just use the official artwork since it's easier on the eyes.[[User:Strawhatroger|Strawhatroger]] ([[User talk:Strawhatroger|talk]]) 05:02, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

==Urshifu and Female Pokémon==

Since the two forms of Urshifu shared a menusprite, the Home art for Rapid Strike style Urshifu will have to be added manually globally. I don't think there is another Pokémon with this issue. Female Pokémon such as Unfezant, Jellicent, etc. will also have to be added manually. And since they are included, the female forms of Meowstic, Indeedee, Basculegion and Pyroar should have their own entries as well. Or none of them should. Just make it consistent. Necrozma is also missing its forms, even though they change type. '''[[User:Oneofthosedf|Oneofthosedf]] [[User talk:Oneofthosedf|(talk)]] [[Special:Contributions/Oneofthosedf|(contribs)]]''' 18:00, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
:I'm wondering if we should change female forms manually or the HOME images could be renamed. I'm fine with both, but I'd like to know what to do.--'''[[User:Team Rocket Grunt|Rocket]] [[User talk:Team Rocket Grunt|Grunt]]''' 19:02, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

::Yeah, I'm adding the Urshifu sprite to move pages, but I'll wait with Indeedee and Meowstic, as a simple redirect would solve those issues as opposed to Urshifu. '''[[User:Oneofthosedf|Oneofthosedf]] [[User talk:Oneofthosedf|(talk)]] [[Special:Contributions/Oneofthosedf|(contribs)]]''' 19:46, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

== Forms of Pokémon that should be added into this list ==

I know that I spoke about this more that two years ago, but there are a lot of inconsistencies in the list regarding which Pokémon forms get to be in this list and which don't, I get that Gigantamax and Mega's aren't allowed in this list, but there are Pokémon that have very different forms ranging from Gender, alternative and even different learnset's, and I think that they should be added into the list as well because there are pokemon that share the exact situation has the ones that I'm going to propose that are already on the list.

Candidates for inclusion on the list based in multiple criteria:

By gender extreme differences:

Indeedee Female

Pyroar Female

Meowstic Female

Basculegion Female

(Pokémon subject to this criteria that are already present on the list with Male and Female forms are: Unfezant, Frillish and Jellycent)

Pokemon with special forms that can't be changed:

Lycanrock Midnight form

Lycanrock Dusk form

Toxtricity Low Key form

Sandy Cloak Wormadam

Trash Cloak Wormadam

(Pokémon subject to this criteria that have different forms already present on the list are: Shellos, Gastrodont, Basculin and Urshifu)

Diferent Fusions with different Types:

White Kyurem

Black Kyurem

Dusk Mane Necrozma

Dawn Wings Necrozma

Ultra Necrozma

Pokemon with the capability of change between forms upon different scenarios:

Wishiwashi School form

Cherrim Sunshine form

Landorus Therian form

Thundurus Therian form

Tornadus Therian form

Enamorus Therian form

Keldeo Resolute form

Zygarde 10% form

Zygarde 100% form

(Pokémon subject to this criteria that have different forms already present on the list are: Castform, Rotom, Melloeta, Hoopa, Shaymin, Oricorio, Deoxis, Dialga, Palkia and Gyratina)

Please consider adding the proposed forms listed above, or consider delisting the Pokémon forms that are already present in parentheses at the end of each category, since if the Pokémons requested to be added are not added personally I don't see a justified reason to keep the extra forms that are present at the moment.

--[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 18:23, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

Also this should be more easy now that we have the Pokémon HOME models for this list --[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 18:28, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

:Being as long as it is, I think adding on to the list uneccessarily unless its a non-battle form change that changes the user's type. That being said, there are some forms missing that can be added, and I agree that some of the listings, like the gender differences, are superfluous. - [[User:Chosen|Chosen]] ([[User talk:Chosen|Talk]]) 01:11, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

{{indent}}These and many forms have (mostly) been added. You can see [[User:Tiddlywinks/List of Pokémon by National Pokédex number|here]] a list of forms that were not included (as of pre-SV). Generally, forms for abandoned mechanics (like Megas) are excluded.

These details could change with discussion. I know that all forms are pretty much in HOME, which may argue for adding Megas and such. (If we do do that, I feel like we should throw in Spiky-eared Pichu and other non-HOME forms too.) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 06:10, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

:If I may make suggestions, I think that form names could be split into new lines with <nowiki> </nowiki>tag like it is done on many pages already. How about adding generation number to each Pokémon so new people would know they can't have Alolan Pokemon in games like FRLG despite existing in LGPE? What about slight cellpadding so these files won't look so squeezed? Also, there's a small mistake with Cramorant's type and tables aren't curved at the bottom.--'''[[User:Team Rocket Grunt|Rocket]] [[User talk:Team Rocket Grunt|Grunt]]''' 08:10, 8 November 2022 (UTC)
::Personally, I'm not all about line breaks. IDK about anyone else, but at times I'll just copy a column/table straight from the page, and line breaks mess with that. (And comparing, say, the type pages, I'm not wowed by the difference in presentation. I could even argue that this format is better.)
::I did actually consider adding a column for game introduced, but I didn't get any feedback about that idea and didn't quite feel like mocking it up, so that part is completely untested.
::If you want to suggest what you think looks good for padding, I can see. But IMO it's "fine" for now. /shrug
::Roundy is about the last thing I'm worried about honestly. If I work on the list again, I may see about it. (It's definitely not worth adding some condition to the templates.) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 22:18, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

==Eternal Floette==

Not included on this page (should be) and all it had was the menusprite. It will need a redirect. Probably [[File:AZ's Floette.png|90px]] will do. '''[[User:Oneofthosedf|Oneofthosedf]] [[User talk:Oneofthosedf|(talk)]] [[Special:Contributions/Oneofthosedf|(contribs)]]''' 19:46, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

== Pokedex Arts ==

I really like that we change the classic 2D menusprites for the 2D Sugimori art for each Pokémon, since not all of them have menusprites and it most certain that in the future the old menusprites will not be used in games, we need to have a consistent art style.--[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 15:35, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

:Couldn't agree more, thank you guys for finally making this happen. Looks awesome. '''[[User:Oneofthosedf|Oneofthosedf]] [[User talk:Oneofthosedf|(talk)]] [[Special:Contributions/Oneofthosedf|(contribs)]]''' 22:42, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

I see that most forms have been cleaned up, but Basculin has only 2 of its 33 forms in the list.--[[User:Jor1ss|Jor1ss]] ([[User talk:Jor1ss|talk]]) 14:45, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
I obviously meant 3 and not 33 but it won't let me change it without signing it again.--[[User:Jor1ss|Jor1ss]] ([[User talk:Jor1ss|talk]]) 14:47, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
== Isle of Armor, Crown Tundra, Hisui, and Paldea dex numbers ==
* Hello, I'd like to request addition of Pokédex numbers for the Isle of Armor, Crown Tundra, and Hisui Pokémon. Just use the sup|Isle of Armor and sup|Crown Tundra for the IoA/CT Pokémon, add an LADex column for Hisui Pokémon.
Also, we have a few Paldea Pokédex numbers, they are: Sprigatito #001, Fuecoco #004, Quaxly #007, Lechonk #010, Pawmi #022, Fidough #076. Thanks, [[User:PinkYoshiGaming|PinkYoshiGaming]] ([[User talk:PinkYoshiGaming|talk]]) 17:26, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

== Cramorant's type ==

Cramorant's types are maldisplayed on gen 8 table. The article is locked so I hope this could be fixed soon. [[User:Saphir|Saphir]] ([[User talk:Saphir|talk]]) 12:27, 8 November 2022 (UTC)
:Thanks for pointing it out. (Also TRG.) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 22:21, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

== Gen 9 Dex numbers are largely incorrect ==

The numbers here are their index number in the data, not their National Dex numbers which we don't actually know yet and while that's fine, we need to let people know that.--[[User:Nintenfreak|Nintenfreak]] ([[User talk:Nintenfreak|talk]]) 00:52, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

::I think the Chinese-language wiki has the intended National Dex numbers on the pages of each individual Pokemon, but if there's no way to conform the numbers 100% they should be reverted to "#???" but ordered using their numbers in the Paldea Pokedex. [[User:Superjustinbros.|Superjustinbros.]] ([[User talk:Superjustinbros.|talk]]) 01:17, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
:::Did the hard work:

{{ndexh|Scarlet|Violet}}
{{ndex|906|Sprigatito|Grass}}
{{ndex|907|Floragato|Grass}}
{{ndex|908|Meowscarada|Grass|Dark}}
{{ndex|909|Fuecoco|Fire}}
{{ndex|910|Crocalor|Fire}}
{{ndex|911|Skeledirge|Fire|Ghost}}
{{ndex|912|Quaxly|Water}}
{{ndex|913|Quaxwell|Water}}
{{ndex|914|Quaquaval|Water|Fighting}}
{{ndex|915|Lechonk|Normal}}
{{ndex|916|Oinkologne|Normal}}
{{ndex|???|Tarountula|Bug}}
{{ndex|???|Spidops|Bug}}
{{ndex|???|Nymble|Bug}}
{{ndex|???|Lokix|Bug|Dark}}
{{ndex|???|Pawmi|Electric}}
{{ndex|???|Pawmo|Electric|Fighting}}
{{ndex|???|Pawmot|Electric|Fighting}}
{{ndex|???|Clodsire|Poison|Ground}}
{{ndex|???|Tandemaus|Normal}}
{{ndex|???|Maushold|Normal}}
{{ndex|???|Fidough|Fairy}}
{{ndex|???|Dachsbun|Fairy}}
{{ndex|???|Smoliv|Grass|Normal}}
{{ndex|???|Dolliv|Grass|Normal}}
{{ndex|???|Arboliva|Grass|Normal}}
{{ndex|???|Squawkabilly|Normal|Flying}}
{{ndex|???|Nacli|Rock}}
{{ndex|???|Naclstack|Rock}}
{{ndex|???|Garganacl|Rock}}
{{ndex|???|Annihilape|Fighting|Ghost}}
{{ndex|???|Charcadet|Fire}}
{{ndex|???|Armarouge|Fire|Psychic}}
{{ndex|???|Ceruledge|Fire|Ghost}}
{{ndex|???|Tadbulb|Electric}}
{{ndex|???|Bellibolt|Electric}}
{{ndex|???|Wattrel|Electric|Flying}}
{{ndex|???|Kilowattrel|Electric|Flying}}
{{ndex|???|Dudunsparce|Normal}}
{{ndex|???|Farigiraf|Normal|Psychic}}
{{ndex|???|Maschiff|Dark}}
{{ndex|???|Mabosstiff|Dark}}
{{ndex|???|Shroodle|Poison|Normal}}
{{ndex|???|Grafaiai|Poison|Normal}}
{{ndex|???|Bramblin|Grass|Ghost}}
{{ndex|???|Brambleghast|Grass|Ghost}}
{{ndex|???|Toedscool|Ground|Grass}}
{{ndex|???|Toedscruel|Ground|Grass}}
{{ndex|???|Klawf|Rock}}
{{ndex|???|Capsakid|Grass}}
{{ndex|???|Scovillain|Grass|Fire}}
{{ndex|???|Rellor|Bug}}
{{ndex|???|Rabsca|Bug|Psychic}}
{{ndex|???|Flittle|Psychic}}
{{ndex|???|Espathra|Psychic}}
{{ndex|???|Tinkatink|Fairy|Steel}}
{{ndex|???|Tinkatuff|Fairy|Steel}}
{{ndex|???|Tinkaton|Fairy|Steel}}
{{ndex|???|Wiglett|Water}}
{{ndex|???|Wugtrio|Water}}
{{ndex|???|Bombirdier|Flying|Dark}}
{{ndex|???|Finizen|Water}}
{{ndex|???|Palafin|formname=Zero Form|Water|forms=2}}
{{ndex/form|???|Palafin|-Hero|Hero Form|Water}}
{{ndex|???|Varoom|Steel|Poison}}
{{ndex|???|Revavroom|Steel|Poison}}
{{ndex|???|Cyclizar|Dragon|Normal}}
{{ndex|???|Orthworm|Steel}}
{{ndex|???|Glimmet|Rock|Poison}}
{{ndex|???|Glimmora|Rock|Poison}}
{{ndex|???|Greavard|Ghost}}
{{ndex|???|Houndstone|Ghost}}
{{ndex|???|Flamigo|Flying|Fighting}}
{{ndex|???|Cetoddle|Ice}}
{{ndex|???|Cetitan|Ice}}
{{ndex|???|Kingambit|Dark|Steel}}
{{ndex|???|Veluza|Water|Psychic}}
{{ndex|???|Dondozo|Water}}
{{ndex|???|Tatsugiri|formname=Curly Form|Dragon|Water|forms=3}}
{{ndex/form|???|Tatsugiri|-Droopy|Droopy Form|Dragon|Water}}
{{ndex/form|???|Tatsugiri|-Stretchy|Stretchy Form|Dragon|Water}}
{{ndex|???|Great Tusk|Ground|Fighting}}
{{ndex|???|Scream Tail|Fairy|Psychic}}
{{ndex|???|Brute Bonnet|Grass|Dark}}
{{ndex|???|Flutter Mane|Ghost|Fairy}}
{{ndex|???|Slither Wing|Bug|Fighting}}
{{ndex|???|Sandy Shocks|Electric|Ground}}
{{ndex|???|Iron Treads|Ground|Steel}}
{{ndex|???|Iron Bundle|Ice|Water}}
{{ndex|???|Iron Hands|Fighting|Electric}}
{{ndex|???|Iron Jugulis|Dark|Flying}}
{{ndex|???|Iron Moth|Fire|Poison}}
{{ndex|???|Iron Thorns|Rock|Electric}}
{{ndex|???|Frigibax|Dragon|Ice}}
{{ndex|???|Arctibax|Dragon|Ice}}
{{ndex|???|Baxcalibur|Dragon|Ice}}
{{ndex|???|Gimmighoul|formname=Chest Form|Ghost|forms=2}}
{{ndex/form|???|Gimmighoul|-Roaming|Roaming Form|Ghost}}
{{ndex|???|Gholdengo|Steel|Ghost}}
{{ndex|???|Wo-Chien|Dark|Grass}}
{{ndex|???|Chien-Pao|Dark|Ice}}
{{ndex|???|Ting-Lu|Dark|Ground}}
{{ndex|???|Chi-Yu|Dark|Fire}}
{{ndex|???|Roaring Moon|Dragon|Dark}}
{{ndex|???|Iron Valiant|Fairy|Fighting}}
{{ndex|???|Koraidon|Fighting|Dragon}}
{{ndex|???|Miraidon|Electric|Dragon}}
|}
::::What seem to be the intended Dex numbers for the Paldea Pokemon were added in the first patch which came out on launch day, maybe that could be used as the basis for the national Dex numbers since they're all put in a more proper order? [[User:Superjustinbros.|Superjustinbros.]] ([[User talk:Superjustinbros.|talk]]) 03:35, 20 November 2022 (UTC)

Number 980 and 987 are missing from the list. Is that an error or have they just not been revealed yet? --[[User:DudeGuy|DudeGuy]] ([[User talk:DudeGuy|talk]]) 02:57, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
::They are dummied out Pokémon not in the base game but should be added with updates, which is why I suspect this isn't the actual National Dex number. It's more likely this is the internal index number. You can see sketches of what these Pokémon will look like while playing the game.--[[User:Nintenfreak|Nintenfreak]] ([[User talk:Nintenfreak|talk]]) 03:37, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

==Notes==

Meadow Vivillon is listed as the Polar Pattern, Paldean Tauros are missing, and I get why Arceus has "Arceus" under its name, but it's really redundant. If the Deerling and Cramorant forms are listed separately, then Ash-Greninja and Eternal Floette should also be listed. '''[[User:Oneofthosedf|Oneofthosedf]] [[User talk:Oneofthosedf|(talk)]] [[Special:Contributions/Oneofthosedf|(contribs)]]''' 00:14, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

==Paldean Tauros==

Just wanted to note that Paldean Tauros' type is wrong, and that all breeds should be listed as they have different types. [[User:Petrichor|Petrichor]] ([[User talk:Petrichor|talk]]) 18:04, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

== hey ==

the official artworks for all Gen 9 Pokemon are arriving!
[[User:WASPED 302168|WASPED 302168]] ([[User talk:WASPED 302168|talk]]) 14:52, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

I have a question, how much time is often need after the games official release and the full release of the official arts for every Pokémon???
2, 3 or 4 months???
[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 17:35, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

Talk:List of Pokémon by National Pokédex number/Archive 2

2022-12-03T17:35:35Z

Neos: /* hey */

== Archives ==
* [[Talk:List of Pokémon by National Pokédex number/Archive 1|Archive 1]]
__TOC__
== Gen VI ==
<s>Could Aurorus and Tyrantrum be added to the page, or will they be added after this mystery Pokémon is revealed tomorrow?</s> Scratch that. Aurorus, Tyrantrum, and Doublade need to be added. --[[User talk:Relicant|The]] [[Special:Contributions/Relicant|Truth]] aka Relicant 16:19, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

== 719, 720, 721 ==

I remember reading somewhere that someone discovered Pokemon past Zygarde. Should we add them? [[User:Liberty Bell|Liberty Bell]] ([[User talk:Liberty Bell|talk]]) 14:25, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
:We know about them, but we can't really confirm them since this time we neither can crack into the game to see all the data, nor they've been officialy revealed... at least for now. [[User:Uploader|Uploader]] ([[User talk:Uploader|talk]]) 14:39, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

== Cottonee's type change ==

Can anyone add Fairy type to Cottonee please, that's because it's evolution is also Fairy type. Thank you! [[User:Cinday123|Cinday123]] ([[User talk:Cinday123|talk]]) 06:56, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

== False typing ==

Cottonee and Whimsicott are not fairy type. Why do people keep stating that when you cannot even find them in x or y? --[[User:Admantus|Admantus]] ([[User talk:Admantus|talk]]) 19:07, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
:You can't catch them yourself, but they are used by other Trainers in battle facilities, etc. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 20:19, 1 December 2013 (UTC)

::And according to Serebii, Cottonee line is now Fairy type, however, you can't catch them in Kalos and the only way to get them is to transfer Pokémon from Black, White, Black 2 or White 2 to X or Y, this is because it is not available to catch in Kalos however you have a chance to see them in battle facilities whereas Trainers used Whimsicott. [[User:Cinday123|Cinday123]] ([[User talk:Cinday123|talk]]) 08:52, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

Well, Serebii might be wrong, because they haven't even updated the sprites for the other unobtainable pokemon that appear post-game. I think that the types should be switched back to pure grass until pokemon bank comes out. --[[User:Admantus|Admantus]] ([[User talk:Admantus|talk]]) 20:56, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

:That has nothing to do with it. I mean, the information on Bulbapedia is always confirmed information. And any information that wasn't confirmed gets removed. So, the fact that Cottonee/Whimsicott being Grass/Fairy hasn't been removed or altered back to it's original information/typing means it's been confirmed. And like [[User:Cinday123|Cinday123]] and others have said, just because you can't catch it in the Kalos region games doesn't mean you can't still obtain it. And that means, the information for Cottonee & Whimsicott are programmed in the games. So, I say let it be. [[User:DarienLeonhart|DarienLeonhart]] ([[User talk:DarienLeonhart|talk]]) 21:52, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

== Order ==

Is it just me or are the pokemon listed for gen VI out of order? Not like broken, but I see like 114 right after 93 and etc. ★☆[[User:Togetic45|'''Toge''']][[User talk:Togetic45|'''tic''']][[Special:Contributions/Togetic45|'''45''']]☆★ 18:58, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
:It's not out of order. Those are the Pokemon's Kalos Dex numbers. The list is ordered by the National Dex numbers. --[[User:Funktastic~!|'''It's''' '''Funktastic~!''']][[User talk:Funktastic~!|''話してください'']] 19:05, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

== Secret Gen 6 Pokemon ==

What about those secret Pokemon from Gen 6? The ones after Zygarde? Shouldn't they be on here now? [[User:MegaNerd18|MegaNerd18]] ([[User talk:MegaNerd18|talk]]) 11:36, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

:I'm so sorry, the Pokémon Company haven't revealed these mythical Pokémon so let's just leave it for now until it's revealed so we don't know yet. [[User:Cinday123|Cinday123]] ''([[User talk:Cinday123|Talk]])'' 12:24, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

Well I think the hacker who discovered the secret Pokemon is reliable because the Pokemon he found where: Hoopla, Volcanion, Daince, Fancy Vivillon, and the Mega Eon twins. Four out of six have revealed. If we do put in Hoopla and Volcaion when should put a little star (*) like on the list of Pokemon in the a area in the ranger game if you must release them after you catch them. --[[User:AbsolX|AbsolX]] ([[User talk:AbsolX|talk]]) 17:46, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

== Generation VI Sprites ==

Why there are no sprites for the new Pokémon introduced in X and Y? [[User:Dalton358|Dalton358]] ([[User talk:Dalton358|talk]]) 20:25, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
:Because we don't have them and we don't allow taking from other sites without permission. [[User:Glik|Glik]] ([[User talk:Glik|talk]]) 20:33, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
::I figured it would take longer to get them, because it's on a different system. I wonder how the other websites got their images. [[User:Dalton358|Dalton358]] ([[User talk:Dalton358|talk]]) 21:41, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
:::They have 3DS capture cards. Few Bulbapedia users do, and the only ones I've seen with them have been focusing on other things, like Trainer images. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 21:44, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

== Multiple Pokédeces in Generation VI ==
In the Generation VI, there are 3 Pokédeces: Kalos Central, Kalos Coastal and Kalos Mountain. For example:
# Chespin is Kalos Central #001
# Inkay is Kalos Coastal #010
# Goomy is Kalos Mountain #019
The list doesn't reflect it.

-[[User:Iosue|Iosue]] ([[User talk:Iosue|talk]]) 08:27, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
:That's because this is the National Pokédex list. You want [[List of Pokémon by Kalos Pokédex number]]. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 08:32, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
::Of course I understand that. I am not stupid. I can read. What I am suggesting is to add a very small token in front of each Kalos number to indicate if it is Central, Coastal or Mountain, as these are a part of the Generation VI dex. If there is no indication of the sub-region, the column of the table of Generation VI will have limited meaning here. I'd suggest you either delete the whole column, or add the small indication of which sub-region the number belongs to. -[[User:Iosue|Iosue]] ([[User talk:Iosue|talk]]) 04:39, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
:::This is still an issue. Scatterbug and Sligoo are still labeled with the same number in the Kalos Dex without distinction. Also, that column is labelled VIDex, which will be misleading with the release of ORAS. --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 06:55, 17 July 2014 (UTC)
::::I concur with the main issue. Don't write completely undifferentiated numbers as if all you have to do is scroll through one Pokedex to find any given Pokemon; that's not at all the case. Do something like this:
{{rdexh|X|Y|dexname={{color2|000|List of Pokémon by Kalos Pokédex number|VIdex}}}}
{{rdex|001Ce|650|Chespin|1|Grass}}
{{rdex|002Ce|651|Quilladin|1|Grass}}
|}
::::I would also strongly suggest linking the regional 'dex abbreviations in the headers so people can click on them and immediately jump to those 'dexes. (If this were done, this would make "VIdex" less "misleading".) I linked "VIdex" above, and I'll demonstrate the same for the other generations below...
{{rdexh|red|green|dexname={{color2|000|List of Pokémon by Kanto Pokédex number|Kdex}}}}
|}
{{rdexh|gold|silver|dexname={{color2|000|List of Pokémon by Johto Pokédex number|Jdex}}}}
|}
{{rdexh|ruby|sapphire|dexname={{color2|000|List of Pokémon by Hoenn Pokédex number|Hdex}}}}
|}
{{rdexh|diamond|pearl|dexname={{color2|000|List of Pokémon by Sinnoh Pokédex number|Sdex}}}}
|}
{{rdexh|black|white|dexname={{color2|000|List of Pokémon by Unova Pokédex number|Udex}}}}
|}
::::For that matter, I'd also suggest linking "Ndex" similarly in [[Template:Rdexh|the header template]] so it links easily back here on the regional 'dex pages. ...And "Type" could also be linked, just because it's the sort of thing that ''should'' be clickable. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 08:47, 17 July 2014 (UTC)
:::::This is still an issue. Scatterbug and Sligoo are still labeled with the same number in the Kalos Dex without distinction. Also, Diancie needs its Kalos Dex number added (#151 in Central). --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 09:43, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
::::::As Abcboy said, this remains an issue. I have taken the liberty of creating [[User:Tiddlywinks/List of Pokémon by National Pokédex number|a user page]] that fixes the main issue in this discussion. The page also incorporates my idea for 'dex links in the headers, as well as renames the Kalos section's table header from "VIdex", a name that is not proper considering the existence of ORAS now.
::::::I hope someone on staff will take a cursory look at my user page and then copy the code onto this page (give or take the headers, perhaps), so that this issue may finally be solved. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 21:58, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
:::::::Bump... [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 10:29, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

== Color ==

I noticed that the color coordination is not in accord with the Kalos National Pokédex. Shouldn't each region get the appropriate color attributed to them? [[User:Mr. Guye|Mr. Guye]] ([[User talk:Mr. Guye|talk]]) 20:57, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

:Interesting observation. I had never noticed the color coding in the Kalos National Pokédex before, but it's there, and is to my knowledge the first time an official source has used color coding to denote regions.
:Bulbapedia currently uses specific colors for regions, but this particular page uses the colors of the first games taking place in those regions. Perhaps the colors for the tables on this page should be replaced with the region colors. Meanwhile, replacing the region colors themselves with the ones in X and Y is a discussion that should take place but might be too big for this page. I would recommend taking that up with a staff member. --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] [[User talk:AndyPKMN|(talk)]] 18:36, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

== The icon for diancie. ==
Now that Diancie has been released, you guys need to update this page to contain the sprite for diancie so it is no longer a grey question mark. [[User:Randomviewer896|Random Viewer]]

== Flabébé line ==

We've done it for Shaymin, Burmy and Rotom (as well as others) and the sprites are in the Archives, so can an admin (since I can't edit the page) add on the different mini sprites of them, or explain to me why they aren't used on it? Thanks.--[[User:Ditto51|Ditto51/Tom]] ([[User_Talk:Ditto51|My Talk Page]]) 20:47, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

== Save space ==

Welcome. I got the idea, in which a list of Pokemon replace the tiles. It would have saved a lot of space and reduced the site to a minimum. Imagine this:
{|
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #001
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:001Bulbasaur.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Bulbasaur}}}}}
|-
| align=center style="{{roundybl|5px}} background:#{{Grass color}}" width=50% | [[Grass (type)|Grass]]
| align=center style="{{roundybr|5px}}; background:#{{Poison color}}" width=50% | [[Poison (type)|Poison]]
|}
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #002
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:002Ivysaur.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Ivysaur}}}}}
|-
| align=center style="{{roundybl|5px}} background:#{{Grass color}}" width=50% | [[Grass (type)|Grass]]
| align=center style="{{roundybr|5px}}; background:#{{Poison color}}" width=50% | [[Poison (type)|Poison]]
|}
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #003
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:003Venusaur.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Venusaur}}}}}
|-
| align=center style="{{roundybl|5px}} background:#{{Grass color}}" width=50% | [[Grass (type)|Grass]]
| align=center style="{{roundybr|5px}}; background:#{{Poison color}}" width=50% | [[Poison (type)|Poison]]
|}
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #004
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:004Charmander.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Charmander}}}}}
|-
| colspan=2 align=center style="{{roundybottom|5px}} background:#{{Fire color}}" | [[Fire (type)|Fire]]
|}
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #005
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:005Charmeleon.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Charmeleon}}}}}
|-
| colspan=2 align=center style="{{roundybottom|5px}} background:#{{Fire color}}" | [[Fire (type)|Fire]]
|}
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #006
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:006Charizard.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Charizard}}}}}
|-
| align=center style="{{roundybl|5px}} background:#{{Fire color}}" width=50% | [[Fire (type)|Fire]]
| align=center style="{{roundybr|5px}}; background:#{{Flying color}}" width=50% | [[Flying (type)|Flying]]
|}
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #007
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:007Squirtle.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Squirtle}}}}}
|-
| colspan=2 align=center style="{{roundybottom|5px}} background:#{{Water color}}" | [[Water (type)|Water]]
|}
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #008
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:008Wartortle.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Wartortle}}}}}
|-
| colspan=2 align=center style="{{roundybottom|5px}} background:#{{Water color}}" | [[Water (type)|Water]]
|}
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #009
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:009Blastoise.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Blastoise}}}}}
|-
| colspan=2 align=center style="{{roundybottom|5px}} background:#{{Water color}}" | [[Water (type)|Water]]
|}
|}

As you can see images of Pokémon will be bigger and will take less than half the length now. --[[User:Dominikololo|Dominikololo]] ([[User talk:Dominikololo|talk]]) 09:47, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

:I don't necessarily agree with this idea. It looks better and shows off a Pokémon's appearance in full instead of just resorting to the icon, yes, but it's a lot more complex to work with incase there's an error. If you want to make it, you can do it as a personal user page under something like [[User:Dominikololo/Visual National Pokédex]] just to give us a full example. [[User:Superjustinbros.|Superjustinbros.]] ([[User talk:Superjustinbros.|talk]]) 03:30, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

== Generation III ==

Considering the fact the Johto Pokédex part of the Gen II Pokémon section was updated to the newer version from HG/SS, it's probably best we update Hoenn's under the Gen III Pokémon section to the one from ΩR/αS. [[User:Nintendocan|Nintendocan]] ([[User talk:Nintendocan|talk]]) 00:17, 25 December 2014 (UTC)

== Hoopa Unbound and Dex numbers ==

Hoopa's Unbound form needs to be added. Diancie, Hoopa and Volcanion's Dex numbers also. [[User:Asmod96|Asmod96]] ([[User talk:Asmod96|talk]]) 16:09, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

{{rdexh|X|Y|VI}}
{{rdex|150|718|Zygarde|2|Dragon|Ground}}
{{rdex|151|719|Diancie|2|Rock|Fairy}}
{{rdex|152|720|Hoopa|2|Psychic|Ghost}}
{{rdex|152|720U|Hoopa|2|Psychic|Dark}}
{{rdex|153|721|Volcanion|2|Fire|Water}}
|}

== Sun and Moon Legendary Mascots ==

Can someone who has access to editing this page add [http://www.serebii.net/news/2016/20-April-2016.shtml Solgaleo and Lunaala] to the Gen VII list? They have been revealed along with the Alola starters, but remained nameless in the video. --[[User:PKMNAdventurer|PKMNAdventurer]] ([[User talk:PKMNAdventurer|talk]]) 23:16, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
:As you say, they are nameless. Until there is confirmation, we will not be assuming their names. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 23:26, 10 May 2016 (UTC)

== Charjabug and Vikavolt ==

Shouldn't Charjabug and Vikavolt be immediately after Grubbin, seeing as they're its evolutions? [[User:Pokemega32|Pokemega32]] ([[User talk:Pokemega32|talk]]) 13:55, 1 July 2016 (UTC)
:I noticed that too; I think whoever renamed/added them meant to move both Rockruff and Komala down, but somehow missed Rockruff... [[User:AmoongussForLife|AmoongussForLife]] ([[User talk:AmoongussForLife|talk]]) 14:14, 1 July 2016 (UTC)
::Just went to look at it and it seems SnorlaxMonster got it covered. Thanks for pointing it out. Too bad we don't know anything about their official numbering yet, but I guess they want to keep some things (how many 'Mons, for instance" a secret, so meh. [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 17:32, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

== Hippowdon ==

If Unfezant and Frillish line are included twice for both genders, shouldn't Hippowdon be added as well? Their appearance is quite different as well.
Same goes for several other cases, if Hoopa and Meloetta have their forms added, why not Keldeo or Kami trio? Who decides what should appear and what shouldn't, and by what rule??? {{unsigned|KingisNitro}}
:The Hippos, it may be because official art (see [[Hippopotas (Pokémon)]], the big image at the top) AFAIK has never depicted the female forms, while for {{p|Frillish}} and {{p|Unfezant}} it has.
:The difference between Hoopa and Meoetta vs Keldeo and the Kami trio may be that the former change types when they change form. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 16:35, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
::Another contributing reason is that the game does not have gender-specific menu sprites for the Hippopotas family. Together with the lack of a type difference between genders, adding a seperate row for the other gender will not accomplish anything content-wise. [[User:Chenzw|Chenzw]] ([[User talk:Chenzw|talk]]) 16:49, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
:::Basculin is also listed twice, by the way. Vivillon, that also changes menu sprite depending on forms, is only included once (understandably because of how many form differences it has).
:::I mean I was mostly asking, so thanks for "justifying" it. Also, regarding whether it adds anything content-wise - except for the type changing forms, nothing really adds any content (Frillish, Hippos, Unfezant, Basculin, Vivillon), which is why I was puzzled. Didn't seem like there was any actual reason to include multiples. But I guess Sugimori arts are a good enough reason (I just couldn't figure it out). {{unsigned|KingisNitro}}

== Alolan ==

Someone needs to add the recently revealed Pokemon, which I assume would include Alolan Forms (as they all change type.) [[User:AmoongussForLife|AmoongussForLife]] ([[User talk:AmoongussForLife|talk]]) 17:32, 1 August 2016 (UTC)

:No, I think this page is better suited for the Pokémon with their natural Pokémon types to help prevent the page from getting too messy or confusing. This is why separate sub-pages are better suited to handling this such as the [[Mega Evolution]] page. -[[User:Tyler53841|Tyler53841]] ([[User talk:Tyler53841|talk]]) 00:37, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
::FWIW, the Alola Forms' types are no less natural than the forms we've always known. That said, we haven't yet decided whether we want the Alola Forms here or not. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 00:41, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
:::I would think that the Alolan Forms should be added, as the type changes, it appears the Pokémon don't switch between the two (an Ice/Fairy Ninetales would have Ice Vulpix), and multiple entries are added for Darmanitan, which is a similar case. I suppose the second point is mostly speculation at this point, though, but I don't think it would hurt the page overall. [[User:AmoongussForLife|AmoongussForLife]] ([[User talk:AmoongussForLife|talk]]) 01:06, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

== Wimpod's types ==

[[Wimpod]]'s types are Bug/Water, not Water/Bug. Someone should fix it. --[[User:RafaelGN|RafaelGN]] ([[User talk:RafaelGN|talk]]) 03:09, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
:Fixed. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 03:23, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

== Wishiwashi, Pyukumuku, and Morelull ==

This page still lists the japanese names even though the English names are revealed and confirmed and the pages for them use the English names. [[User:AztecCroc|AztecCroc]] ([[User talk:AztecCroc|talk]]) 14:16, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

== Rugarugan ==

Someone needs to add Rugarugan after Rockruff; it's been over a day. [[User:AmoongussForLife|AmoongussForLife]] ([[User talk:AmoongussForLife|talk]]) 17:19, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
:I will try see if I can. [[User:Awesomevenustoise101|Awesomevenustoise101]] ([[User talk:Awesomevenustoise101|talk]]) 17:22, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
::never mind I didn't know that the page is protected. [[User:Awesomevenustoise101|Awesomevenustoise101]] ([[User talk:Awesomevenustoise101|talk]]) 17:23, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
:::It hasn't been added because there is no page for it and it hasn't been officially revealed, it was leaked. The admins know what they are doing and it will be added when it gets added. --[[User:HoennMaster|Hoenn]][[User talk:HoennMaster|Master]] 17:25, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

== why is this page protected? ==

why is this page protected? I want to add Rugarugan after Rockruff but I can't. [[User:Awesomevenustoise101|Awesomevenustoise101]] ([[User talk:Awesomevenustoise101|talk]]) 17:25, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
:Most of the time it doesn't need to be changed, and when it does, we don't want people jumping the gun on rumors and stuff. Things like this we (as staff) update it when it's appropriate to do so. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 17:48, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

== Rowlet National dex number and menu sprites ==

On the [http://www.pokemon-sunmoon.com/en-us/pokemon-bank/ Pokémon Bank page] on the official site, menu sprites for several Gen VII Pokémon have been shown, and Rowlet have been confirmed as #722. Here's direct links for the relevant images: [http://www.pokemon-sunmoon.com/media/uploads/sept_20_assets/screenshots/top/sept20_p12_01_en.png Top screen], [http://www.pokemon-sunmoon.com/media/uploads/sept_20_assets/screenshots/bottom/sept20_p12_01_en.png Bottom screen] - [[User:RHeegaard|RHeegaard]] ([[User talk:RHeegaard|talk]]) 00:21, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

:I'm assuming that the reason only Rowlet, Litten, Popplio, and Pikipek were uploaded is because they are the only ones with numbers (I am curious where you got official evidence of Litten, Popplio, and Pikipek's numbers though?), but would it not be possible to upload the others as "DrampaMS.png" and such so that they can be listed? It would make the table easier to read, I think. It's also what we do with artwork (whereas Pikachu's artwork is [[a:File:025Pikachu.png|File:025Pikachu.png]], Drampa's is [[a:File:Drampa.png|File:Drampa.png]]), so it's not like it goes against Bulbapedia's other efforts. [[User:Nutter Butter|Nutter Butter]] ([[User talk:Nutter Butter|talk]]) 03:05, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
::In large part, most places where menu sprites are used simply ''cannot'' accomodate filenames like DrampaMS (this page being an excellent example of such a place). The few places it might be usable aren't really worth it. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 03:20, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

== Additions ==

Can we add: [[Steenee (Pokémon)]], [[Tsareena (Pokémon)]], [[Hakamo-o (Pokémon)]], [[Ribombee (Pokémon)]]? [[User:Kidburla|Kidburla]] ([[User talk:Kidburla|talk]]) 14:01, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
:They've already been added. --[[User:Carmenstar97|Carmen★]] ''[[User talk:Carmenstar97|(Talk |]] [[Special:Contributions/Carmenstar97|contribs)]]'' 14:02, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
::Thanks. Seems they were added while I was typing the post. [[User:Kidburla|Kidburla]] ([[User talk:Kidburla|talk]]) 16:44, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
:::For future reference, if you just wait, someone will almost assuredly get to it soon enough. (I mean, if someone asked this every time there was a new reveal, this page would probably quickly end up bloated.) If it's 24 hours later, ''then'' it's late. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 16:50, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

== Oricorio ==

How come {{p|Castform}} has all of its forms on the list but {{p|Oricorio}} doesn't? --[[User:PKMNAdventurer|PKMNAdventurer]] ([[User talk:PKMNAdventurer|talk]]) 00:06, 6 January 2017 (UTC)
:Personally, it could be due to the criteria, but I cannot tell. So, here is a hopefully complete list of what Pokémon with multiple menu sprites appear and which do not.
:From the group that does appear: Unfezant (Gender difference), Frillish (Gender), Jellicent (Gender), Castform (Ability), Deoxys (Form), Burmy (Form), Wormadam (Form), Shellos (Form), Gastrodon (Form), Rotom (Form), Giratina (Item), Shaymin (Item), Basculin (Form), Darmanitan (Ability), Meloetta (Move), Hoopa (Item), All Alolan Pokémon (Form)
:From the group that does ''not'' appear: Pyroar (Gender difference), Meowstic (Gender), Ash-Greninja (Ability), Zygarde (Forme), Kyurem (Item), Cosplay Pikachu (Form), Pikachu (Unknown), Spiky-eared Pichu (Form), Unown (Form), Cherrim (Ability), Arceus (Item), Flabébé (Form), Floette (Form), Florges (Form), Deerling (Form), Sawsbuck (Form), Tornadus (Item), Thundurus (Item), Landorus (Item), Keldeo (Move), Vivillon (Form), Furfrou (Form), Aegislash (Ability), Oricorio (Item), Silvally (Item), Minior (Ability), All Mega/Primal Evolution Pokémon (Item/Move),
:...So, basically, I would guess that this might have been potentially overlooked. Who is to say? Granted, I do understand that Unown, Vivillon, Arceus, and Silvally likely are excluded for a good reason. --[[User:Super goku|Super goku]] ([[User talk:Super goku|talk]]) 07:19, 6 January 2017 (UTC)
::IMO, there definitely should be Oricorio with all its form, I thought that only forms with different type combination are added, but if there are also some gender differences... I even think there should be Mega Evolutions, if we will be adding forms. [[User:Asmod96|Asmod96]] ([[User talk:Asmod96|talk]]) 08:13, 16 February 2017 (UTC)
:::Most of these are probably missing because, as was mentioned in my "Hippowdon" question, they don't have official Sugimori art. Frillish has official art for both genders, while Hippowdon doesn't, hence it doesn't get two pictures. P weird reasonong, but I guess it works; Oricorio DOES have official art (in fact, most mentioned Pokemon do) and the forms change typing (good enough reason if you ask me), so I think someone should add them. Also, why can't we merge the forms into a single line (similarly to [[Pokémon with unique type combinations]] page)? {{unsigned|KingisNitro}}
::::The most important thing to remember, I think, is that this is a list of Pokémon species. It's not a list of minisprites. It's not even a list of Pokémon's types—those are included supplementarily. And it's ''certainly'' not a list of Ken Sugimori art.
::::On that note, I think the inclusion and exclusion of form differences should follow a less horrendously arbitrary standard. Either A) all forms with unique minisprites or types are included, or B) only one form per species is included, determined by a consistent criterion. If we go with A, I absolutely agree with KingisNitro that they should be merged into a single row, since it makes no sense to list the same species multiple times in a list of species. If we go B, I propose that the criterion be "whichever form is leftmost in Pokémon Bank's National Pokédex", since this is consistently a form that can be considered the most basic or "default".
::::So the question is, A or B? Should we put it up to a vote? [[User:Randomwaffle23|Randomwaffle23]] ([[User talk:Randomwaffle23|talk]]) 02:27, 4 September 2017 (UTC)
:::::I am going to mention that this technically is over six month old, but I will say that if anyone wants to put this up for a vote or needs to make a new section to discuss this can go ahead. Though, I do want to note that we now have issues with Pokémon like Togekiss who have two menu sprites just for which side they are facing. --[[User:Super goku|Super goku]] ([[User talk:Super goku|talk]]) 07:05, 14 September 2017 (UTC)
:This is still not "fixed". If castform's forms count then I really do think many of the others should be included as well. Maybe not all Unown or Vivillon forms since they're purely cosmetic. I do think forms that change type or stats should be included (like Necrozma or Zygarde forms...) -[[User:Jor1ss|Jor1ss]] ([[User talk:Jor1ss|talk]]) 17:04, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
::So, personally, I'm sorry that this keeps getting forgotten. On the other hand, even now, I can't muster enough of myself to "care" about it to check everything and do it up right... If someone wants to create a user page, we can look at it and see what's different and decide how much should be added. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 22:44, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
:::I'd love to help with adding them but maybe I can't because my account is only 1 day old? I'm also not sure what having a userpage would do for adding to the list? Isn't a userpage just a page for each user? I'm very new here so I don't really know what to do sorry. -[[User:Jor1ss|Jor1ss]] ([[User talk:Jor1ss|talk]]) 06:48, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

==Alola==

At the very top of the page, it still doesn't list Alola with the rest of the regions. [[User:AmoongussForLife|AmoongussForLife]] ([[User talk:AmoongussForLife|talk]]) 10:53, 17 January 2017 (UTC)

== Alolan Pokedex number of new Pokemon ==

The ADex numbers of Poipole, Naganadel, Stakataka, Blacephalon, and Zeraora should be changed to 261, 262, 392, 393, and 403 respectively. [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 18:13, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
:I'm not sure if this kind of a "noisy post" or "bump" is allowed, but I need to somehow get someone to pay attention to this. [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 02:00, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

== Gliscor sprite missing ==

the Gliscor Sprite is missing, can't edit to put it in [[User:Yamitora1|Yamitora1]] ([[User talk:Yamitora1|talk]]) 17:57, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

That's just an error on your end. [[User:AztecCroc|AztecCroc]] ([[User talk:AztecCroc|talk]]) 22:04, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

== Spin-off Pokedexes? ==

Sort of an off-topic but idk where else to ask; do we have Pokedexes for side/spin-off games (Rumble, Mystery Dungeon, Pinball, Ranger, Trozei/Shuffle...)? I think it would be neat to list the Pokemon with places to find them/other important information. If so - where, if not - why? If I made them on my page, could they be added to Bulba? (Where else can I ask this question?) ~[[User:KingisNitro|'''KingisNitro''']] ([[User talk:KingisNitro|talk]]) 01:04, 12 November 2018 (UTC)
:As seen in the List of Pokémon template below the articles, yes, we do have Pokédex listing of other/spin-off games. Unless there's another listing you want to suggest.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 03:32, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

== Meltan and Melmetal should not be under "generation VII" category ==

Officially, meltan and melmetal are under the region "unknown" and as such they should both be under that new category. furthermore, their pokedex numbers are 808 and 809 officially too.
{{unsigned|Supermassimo}}
:Well, I see what you mean but this list is sorted by generation. And those Pokémon were indeed introduced in the generation it says they were. --[[User:Raltseye|Raltseye]] [[User talk:Raltseye|prata med mej]] 14:08, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

::By that logic though, shouldn't Marill and Togepi be listed as generation 1 pokemon, Munchlax as a generation 3 pokemon and Magearna as a generation 6 pokemon? In fact, every single generation other than the first had a pokemon revealed in some medium before the release of the main games and this is especially true of mythicals. (Victini is in a similar situation to Meltan being listed just after the gen 4 mythicals and before the gen 5 starters even though it is considered gen 5 itself)

::In fact, the only difference is that all these other pokemon were typically revealed in movies or the anime whereas Meltan/Melmetal are playable in Pokemon Go/Let's Go. That said, these are still just spinoff games (which actually don't even have any other gen 7 pokemon in them other than alolan forms) and neither Meltan nor Melmetal are available in any mainline gen 7 games. Finally, Pokemon Go goes as far as to classify Meltan's region as "Unknown" whereas it could have easily been listed as Alola if it was intended to be a gen 7 pokemon. (And Magearna has nothing to do with either Kalos nor Alola but is still classified as "Gen 7" in the Sun/Moon pokedex.

::Sorry, for the long rant but my point is that strictly speaking the situation for Meltan/Melmetal is "Unknown" and ideally this should be reflected on the page to avoid speculating. However, if people insist on assigning a region/generation to it, I think it's far more likely to be "Galar"/"Gen 8" and not "Alola". Just my 2 cents. [[User:MCX|MCX]] ([[User talk:MCX|talk]]) 21:52, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
:::I would agree with your logic if not for your assumption that LGPE are not mainline games. They are core Pokémon games, which has been reiterated multiple times by Masuda and the others at GF. Since they’re catchable and playable in a mainline Gen VII game, they’re Gen VII Pokémon. That’s what separates them from cases like Bonsly, which I think would have been a much better example than Marill or Munchlax. --[[User:Celadonkey|celadonk]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 12:47, 18 March 2019 (UTC)
::::I'm still not convinced that it's relevant nor that it's the case that LGPE are core titles. I'm not sure which interview you are referring to when saying that Masuda has stated that LGPE are core games but afaik Sword and Shield were first announced as the unnamed 2019 mainline Switch games in e3 2017. Then LGPE were announced at a later time and people were giving GF crap until they clarified that LGPE weren't the same as the previously announced 2019 titles. Correct me if I remember any of this incorrectly but if not, this would indicate that LGPE are something less than core games. If LGPE are core games that's the equivalent of GF announcing Sun/Moon after XY and then saying "oh btw, before SM we are gonna release gen 3 remakes, they aren't the same games as SM, we just thought we should announce gen 7 first." Yeah, LGPE are much closer gameplay-wise to the core games than, say, mystery dungeon or pokemon pinball but they are also not quite there.

::::Moreover, even if Masuda has said in an interview "LGPE are core titles", I'm still not sure if that is relevant in classifying Meltan's gen. LGPE don't have Crobat or Electivire or any gen 2-7 pokemon but they have Megas and Alolan forms and Meltan. This is just a weird situation where they used Meltan as a promo thing - not at all an indication that it's gen 7. They've even dropped mainline mechanics like breeding and abilities... Meltan being there doesn't conclusively prove anything. I doubt we will get any official statement like "Btw Meltan belongs in X gen" but we are still probably going to get a conclusive answer when they colour code Meltan along with either the gen 7 or gen 8 pokemon in some future title's pokedex. I'm just saying that until then we should keep its status as "Unknown" because that's what it currently is. [[User:MCX|MCX]] ([[User talk:MCX|talk]]) 23:49, 26 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::You can check the interview section in the LGPE guidebook if you don't believe that he explicitly has said that they're core titles. "These games aren't spinoffs. These are core Pokémon titles" is the exact quote. Since Meltan and Melmetal appeared in Gen 7 core titles, they're Gen 7 Pokemon. Simple enough. If for whatever reason they change that, then we'll change that too. But we don't really have any reason to believe otherwise. --[[User:Celadonkey|celadonk]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 23:56, 26 March 2019 (UTC)

== Request to add Trivia section ==

I would like to see a Trivia section added to the bottom of the list, with the following single item:

* With the sole exception of {{p|Type: Null}}, all English Pokémon names in this list are also used for Italian and Spanish languages. The names for '''Type: Null''' in Italian and Spanish are, respectively, ''Tipo Zero'' and ''Código Cero''.

This is to avoid the need for any separate '''List of Italian Pokémon names''' and '''List of Spanish Pokémon names''' pages that would differ from this English page by ONLY ONE ROW. ''(Currently, those two page titles are redirects to the English list.)'' --[[User:SilSinn9801|''SilSinn'']] ([[TID]]s: '''768426[[Pokémon Sun|S]]''', '''123446[[Pokémon Ultra Moon|UM]]''') ([[User talk:SilSinn9801|talk]]) 10:01, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

==Gen 8 Starters==
Grookey, Scorbunny, and Sobble would be National Pokedex 810, 813, and 816. Can these numbers please be added? [[User:Kimichael4317|Kimichael4317]] ([[User talk:Kimichael4317|talk]]) 05:38, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
:We do not actually ''know'' that so no, they won't be added. --[[User:Raltseye|Raltseye]] [[User talk:Raltseye|prata med mej]] 05:43, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
::We have no guarantee as to whether there would be another Victini-like scenario where a Mythical Pokémon would be enumerated right before the starters (as happened in Unova, twice). Hence why we cannot safely assume 810, 813, 816 – it could end up being 811, 814, 817. ‑‑[[User:SilSinn9801|''SilSinn'']] ([[TID]]s: '''768426[[Pokémon Sun|S]]''', '''123446[[Pokémon Ultra Moon|UM]]''') [[User talk:SilSinn9801|💬]] 07:52, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

== Zekrom has an extra space next to his name. ==

That is all. {{unsigned|MrKarato}}
:Fixed. And don't forget to sign your comments.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 06:01, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

== Handling forms + smaller suggestions ==

As far as I can tell there's no pattern to how forms are handled on this page. Some Pokémon with alternate forms or major gender differences have their forms present, others do not. Frankly, since it’s a list of Pokémon species according to their number, no Pokémon with form differences should be even included in a different line. Either the alternate forms should be removed entirely, only including the “base” form, or the lines should be combined like on List of Pokémon with unique type combinations. Personally, I'd prefer to have no forms displayed-- it would make the page a whole lot cleaner and easier to use-- but I can see the purpose of displaying forms, so I think that something like this would be best:

{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{firered color}}; background: #{{firered color}}"
! style="{{roundytl|5px}}; background: #{{leafgreen color light}}" | Kdex
! style="background: #{{leafgreen color light}}" | Ndex
! style="background: #{{leafgreen color light}}" | MS
! style="background: #{{leafgreen color light}}" | Pokémon
! style="{{roundytr|5px}}; background: #{{leafgreen color light}}" colspan="2" | Type</noinclude>
|- style="background:#FFF"
| rowspan="2" style="font-family:monospace" | <nowiki>#</nowiki>026
| rowspan="2" style="font-family:monospace" | <nowiki>#</nowiki>026
| {{MSP|026|Raichu}}
| rowspan="2" | {{p|Raichu}}
| colspan="2" style="text-align:center; background:#{{electric color}}" | [[Electric (type)|Electric]]
|- style="background:#FFF"
| {{MSP|026A|Raichu}}
| style="text-align:center; background:#{{electric color}}" | [[Electric (type)|Electric]]
| style="text-align:center; background:#{{psychic color}}" | [[Psychic (type)|Psychic]]
|}

Again, I think that not displaying forms would be the best way to go, but either way, the current system of handling forms is unsatisfactory, both in the inconsistency between which forms are shown and which are not, and in the actual formatting of the forms.

Additionally, I have two smaller suggestions. First, I believe that it would be better to display the National Pokédex number before the regional Pokédex number, rather than vice versa, as this is a page on the National Pokédex, and that should take priority. Second, at the end of each section, there is no roundy template on the bottom, as you can see above, which makes the bottom of each section square and not as aesthetically pleasing. --[[User:Celadonkey|celadonk]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 20:05, 29 March 2019 (UTC)

The problem with formes/forms is that there's many different kinds of forms. There's only visual forms (most male female differences/unown forms etc) and there's forms where the stats change (meowstic male/female for instance). There's forms where the typing changes (Wormadom/Necrozma's various forms). There's temporary forms that are only visible in battle (megas/greninja/cherubi). There's temporary forms that are changed by using an item or by depositing the pokemon or by whatever arbitrary reason (giratina/tornadus etc.). There's also regional forms, where a pokemon cannot change to the other form but is basically a different pokemon altogether (alolan and soon galarian forms). Maybe the list should just include all the base forms? And then there could be a seperate table listing all the additional forms for a pokemon?[[User:Jor1ss|Jor1ss]] ([[User talk:Jor1ss|talk]]) 12:40, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

== Information to readers ==

I want to modify the title section, but I have no permission. Could someone add the sentence “All English, Italian and Spanish Pokémon names are identical, but, depending on the language, they're pronounced differently.”? --[[User:TheICTLiker4|'''TheICT''']][[User talk:TheICTLiker4|'''Liker4''']] 18:19, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
:That's not relevant to the article at all.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 04:13, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
::Well, most european languages use the same names as the English version anyway, in fact only German and French are the the ones that consistently differ. Unless you count the languages that use a different alphabet, only Serbian, Lithuanian and some more perhaps are the only ones that does not use the standard English names instead transcribing it to their own orthography. So I see no really point in mentioned them all here. A simple line like <code>most other languages using the Latin alphabet also uses these names</code> would suffice in my opinion.
::I'm thinking maybe if it's okay with the staff around to make redirect for <code>List of Swedish/Icelandic/Spanish/Romanian/etc. Pokémon names</code> to this page.
::Otherwise, if you're interested, at least one Spanish and Italian name do actually differ from the English name, {{p|Type: Null}}. I've made list articles about which names I have found being used in other languages [[User:Raltseye/Template:Pokelist|here]].
::--[[User:Raltseye|Raltseye]] [[User talk:Raltseye|prata med mej]] 13:43, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

== Yamper and Impidimp ==

They're not on here for some reason? Can someone who can edit this page fix that?[[User:AztecCroc|AztecCroc]] ([[User talk:AztecCroc|talk]]) 13:33, 15 June 2019 (UTC)

== Aug 7 Trailer - New Pokémon ==

In the newest trailer, two new Pokémon (Obstagoon and Morpeko), as well as the Galarian forms of Weezing, Zigzagoon, and Linoone were revealed. I don't see them listed on this page yet, those Impidimp, which has still not been officially revealed is. [[User:CMP|CMP]] ([[User talk:CMP|talk]]) 18:46, 9 August 2019 (UTC)

== Missing ==

Currently, Galarian Meowth is missing from this list. [[User:MarioMiner|MarioMiner]] ([[User talk:MarioMiner|talk]]) 03:00, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

== Dex Shortcuts ==

Can we get the dex shortcuts removed or redirected correctly? They're just redirecting to the top of this page. [[User:Joe kik as|Joe kik as]] ([[User talk:Joe kik as|talk]]) 17:33, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
:That's the point of the shortcuts. They're just redirects of this article, and they're there for reference.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 04:32, 15 January 2020 (UTC)
::But why is it at the top of the page if it's just redirecting to the top. If anything it should redirect to different pages corresponding to those links. [[User:Joe kik as|Joe kik as]] ([[User talk:Joe kik as|talk]]) 16:32, 15 January 2020 (UTC)
:::I already said why, they're there for reference. To let users know which shortcut to type out in the search bar if they wanted to find this article easier (since typing out the entire title would be a hassle). The other dex listings also have shortcuts that lead to their respective articles.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 16:55, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

== Ndex as the first column ==

I think the Ndex number should probably be the first column. This is the main subject of this list.

The Ndex is currently the 2nd column, which seems like a secondary position. (even though in the case of the first 151 Pokémon, the numbers are the same) --[[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 10:14, 31 January 2020 (UTC)
:{{template|rdex}} is convenient. I don't think it's that big an issue to make another template just for this. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 03:23, 1 February 2020 (UTC)
::I'm with Daniel here. This is a list of Pokemon by National Pokedex number. Surely that should be the primary focus. --[[User:Celadonkey|celadonk]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 18:19, 1 February 2020 (UTC)
:::I could do the job of creating a new template and editing this page if this idea is accepted. It could be simply a new template based on {{template|rdex}} with reverse parameters. A possible name could be {{template|nrdex}} (since {{template|ndex}} is taken) .--[[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 00:50, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
::::The header is the only thing here that would need to be changed if this were to be done. --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 01:05, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
:::::Aside from that, we may also want to reverse the order of the numbers for each Pokémon in [[List of Pokémon by National Pokédex number]], to make the wikitext match the resulting page. I can do this if needed. --[[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 02:38, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

== Pokémon with different forms not present in the list ==

I don't understand the criteria for Pokémon with different forms, by the type of them:

Gender differences : We do not include the forms of Indeedee, Pyroar and Meowstic, But we allow Unfezant, Frillish and Jellycent?

Different permanent forms but with the same typing: Lycanrock and Toxtricity. But it allows other permanent forms, e.g. Shellos, Gastrodont and Basculin.

Different Forms and different types: Kyurem and Necruzma. But allows Castform, Rotom, Melloeta, Hoopa, Shaymin and Oricorio.

Different Battle forms but same types: Wishiwashi, Cherrim, Landorus, Thundurus, Tornadus, Kyurem, Keldeo, Greninja, Zygarde and Minior are not included. But Deoxis and Gyratina are on the list.

No applicable to the above criteria: Unown, Arceus, Deerling, Sawsbuck, Vivillon, The Flabébé Family and Furfrou. But we do have Burmy and Wormadam and Urshifu. (I understand that the Pokémon in this las criteria have a lot of forms, and that the reason of not their including is for space and order in the page)

Can some one please explain me the criteria for allowing the different forms selection?

--Neos 10:19, April 16 2020 (UTC)
:Yeah, it does seem rather arbitrary to me.

:I think I've mentioned this above but this page is a list of Pokemon by number first and foremost. Including forms at all, imo, muddles the numbering up, at least for me. --[[User:Celadonkey|celadonk]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 13:48, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

::I think we should take out the unnecessary forms --[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 00:36, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

== You forgot NDex# of Galarian Slowking ==

Force Fire: You added NDex numbers for Galarian forms of Slowbro & the Legendary Birds (even if no menu sprites exist for them yet), but you forgot Galarian Slowking:
<pre>{{rdex||???|Slowking|1|???}}</pre>
Given this page is protected, I cannot change the page myself; could you please provisionally change that line to:
<pre>{{rdex||199G|Slowking|1|???}}</pre>
‐⁠‑''[[User:SilSinn9801|SilSinn]]'' ([[TID]]s: '''768426[[Pokémon Sun|S]]''', '''123446[[Pokémon Ultra Moon|UM]]''') [[User talk:SilSinn9801|💬]] 17:01, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
:Fixed --[[User:Spriteit|Spriteit]] ([[User talk:Spriteit|talk]]) 01:21, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
::This page needs to be edited as Galarian Slowking's type was confirmed to be Poison/Psychic like Galarian Slowbro was. [[User:Kangaflora|Kangaflora]] ([[User talk:Kangaflora|talk]]) 19:01, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

== 891-893 ==

Pokemon Home's Pokedex , after this morning's patch, seems to confirm that Kubfu, Urshifu, and Zarude are numbers 891, 892, and 893 respectively. That is all. Sorry if this text is really big for some reason.{{unsigned|Zigzagoon97}}

== (Understandable) Style Inconsistencies ==

To be consistent with the style of the page before the Crown Tundra was released, only Calyrex's base form should be present, as neither Kyurem (which, admittedly, does not change type) nor Necrozma (which does change type, and thus should be treated exactly the same way as Calyrex) have their fusion forms present on this list. Alternatively, including Necrozma's forms, and possibly Kyurem's forms, would solve this issue. [[User:MarioMiner|MarioMiner]] ([[User talk:MarioMiner|talk]]) 22:58, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
:Another style inconsistency - in the Generation IV section of the page, Heatran, Regigigas, Cresselia, Phione, Darkrai, Shaymin, and Arceus, the Gen IV Pokémon without Sinnoh Pokédex numbers, have their portions of the "Sdex" column blank. However, Meltan, Melmetal, Kubfu, Urshifu, Zarude, Regieleki, Regidrago, Glastrier, Spectrier, and Calyrex, all Pokémon that do not appear in their respective generations' regional Pokédexes, have "#---" in their regional Pokédex (Adex for Meltan and Melmetal, Gdex for the rest) columns. [[User:MarioMiner|MarioMiner]] ([[User talk:MarioMiner|talk]]) 00:06, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

== Zygarde's Forms ==
Zygard seems to be the only Pokémon currently missing alternate forms.
[[User:RomajiMiltonAmulo|RomajiMiltonAmulo]] ([[User talk:RomajiMiltonAmulo|talk]]) 01:45, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

== Legends: Arceus Pokémon ==

Are the Pokémon and Regional Forms that were shown in the new [[Pokémon Legends: Arceus]] trailer going to be added now or when the game releases? -[[User:Ratboy Jr.|Ratboy Jr.]] ([[User talk:Ratboy Jr.|talk]]) 22:40, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

== Mega Aerodactyl needs to be added. ==

A couple Megas were forgotten to be added. Could you please scout through and add them? {{unsigned|Necrozma800}}
:They are left out for a reason, Mega Evolutions are not completely new species, they are a transformed state of the same base species.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 07:06, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

== Legends arceus pokemon ==

We need numbers for Basculegion, wyrdeer, Kleavor, we need these pokemon added Overqwil, Enamorus, Ursaluna, and Sneasler. Dex numbers (national) are : 899 is Wyrdeer 900 is Kleavor 901 is Ursaluna 902 is Basculegion 903 is Sneasler 904 is Overqwil, 905 is Enamorus, so yeah [[User:ItsRobloxHere|ItsRobloxHere]] ([[User talk:ItsRobloxHere|talk]]) 00:24, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

== H.Goodra's typing ==

it should be Steel/Dragon, not Dragon/Steel.
[[User:Anzasquiddles|Anzasquiddles]] ([[User talk:Anzasquiddles|talk]]) 05:56, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

== Hisuian Braviary's MSP, and Origin Formes for Dialga and Palkia ==

Well, the second point is more of a question. I see there's plenty of contention on the matter of form-inclusion, but Giratina's Origin Forme is on the list so I thought I'd mention it.
[[User:Pichugetic|Pichugetic]] ([[User talk:Pichugetic|talk]]) 01:06, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

: Oh, just noticed: also Hisuian Avalugg. [[User:Pichugetic|Pichugetic]] ([[User talk:Pichugetic|talk]]) 07:31, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

== Unfezant, Frillish and Jellycent: only one entry per Pokémon? ==

For the majority of Pokémon, only the male appearence is shown. However, it does not apply for Shellos, Gastrodon, Unfezant, Frillish and Jellycent. Shellos and Gastrodon are region-based in several (all?) games, so displaying both appearances is justified, but it does not apply for Unfezant, Frillish and Jellycent. So is there something special about those 3 Pokémon that grants 2 entries for each of them in the list? [[User:Y2110|Y2110]] ([[User talk:Y2110|talk]]) 11:42, 21 May 2022 (UTC)

EDIT: Oh, it has already been discussed on this page. My bad

== 3D Sprites ==
[[File:001MS8.png|thumb|right|68px|SwSh Bulbasaur (68px)]]
[[File:902MS.png|thumb|right|68px|PLA Basculegion (68px)]]
[[File:HOME001.png|thumb|right|60px|HOME Bulbasaur (60px)]]
[[File:HOME902.png|thumb|right|60px|HOME Basculegion (60px)]]

Why have the 2D sprites been changed to the 3D Pokemon Home ones? The 3D sprites mesh horribly with the tables and lists, take up too much space, and have too much color and detail making it hard to focus on anything but the sprites themselves. I can understand wanting to upgrade but sometimes less is more especially for someone who has sensitive eyes or ADHD. There could at least be an option to select whether you what to view 2D or 3D sprites.[[User:Strawhatroger|Strawhatroger]] ([[User talk:Strawhatroger|talk]]) 16:57, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
:It's a necessity. We already had too much inconsistency between sprites from SwSh, LGPE, PLA and older ones, soon we'll get another ones for SV which would make it even worse. Fortunately HOME sprite are very consistent and exist for alternate forms. They don't take more space because previously we already had big 68px squares.--'''[[User:Team Rocket Grunt|Rocket]] [[User talk:Team Rocket Grunt|Grunt]]''' 17:34, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

The HOME sprites pop out way too much and are too bright hurting my eyes making it very difficult to do thing like look at lists without straining my eyes.[[User:Strawhatroger|Strawhatroger]] ([[User talk:Strawhatroger|talk]]) 17:55, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

::I've added some Bulbasaur and Basculegion image examples at the top of this discussion now.
::As TRG was saying, the list with 2D sprites was using inconsistent styles (including 2D sprites from SwSh like that Bulbasaur, and 3D face portraits from PLA like that Basculegion). We may have 2D sprites for most of the currently available Pokémon, but not all of them.
::Since you mentioned the size, let me point out that those 2D sprites typically were 68px images with white space around the Pokémon (a lot of white space in my opinion). I've changed them to those 3D images with 60px size, so they are occupying less space than before.
::For instance, it seems there are at least 1,000 lines on these tables, so the page should be approximately 8,000 pixels shorter than before with the current 3D sprites.
::Although to be fair, the image size can be changed in the template so it could become smaller or larger if needed. If anyone thinks that the 2D sprites with a lot of whitespace around looked good, it's also possible to add whitespace around the 3D images (without needing to edit the images). --[[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 18:43, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

:::Did someone reverted the 3D sprites? now they are back to the 2D ones.
:::I really support the idea of using the HOME menu sprites for this page and for what I have seen in the latest SV trailers the classic Menu minisprites are now gone. So by using as the source of sprites HOME we will be sure that's there will be a unify menu art style. --[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 21:57, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

::::Yes. The change was reverted back to the 2D sprites, pending further discussion. Sorry for the trouble. --[[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 23:01, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

Finally! Someone who actually listens to other people's opinions and uses common sense. I've looked at any trailer and screenshot of SV I could find and if anything it looks like 2D sprites will be returning, and if it really comes down to it perhaps we can just use the official artwork since it's easier on the eyes.[[User:Strawhatroger|Strawhatroger]] ([[User talk:Strawhatroger|talk]]) 05:02, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

==Urshifu and Female Pokémon==

Since the two forms of Urshifu shared a menusprite, the Home art for Rapid Strike style Urshifu will have to be added manually globally. I don't think there is another Pokémon with this issue. Female Pokémon such as Unfezant, Jellicent, etc. will also have to be added manually. And since they are included, the female forms of Meowstic, Indeedee, Basculegion and Pyroar should have their own entries as well. Or none of them should. Just make it consistent. Necrozma is also missing its forms, even though they change type. '''[[User:Oneofthosedf|Oneofthosedf]] [[User talk:Oneofthosedf|(talk)]] [[Special:Contributions/Oneofthosedf|(contribs)]]''' 18:00, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
:I'm wondering if we should change female forms manually or the HOME images could be renamed. I'm fine with both, but I'd like to know what to do.--'''[[User:Team Rocket Grunt|Rocket]] [[User talk:Team Rocket Grunt|Grunt]]''' 19:02, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

::Yeah, I'm adding the Urshifu sprite to move pages, but I'll wait with Indeedee and Meowstic, as a simple redirect would solve those issues as opposed to Urshifu. '''[[User:Oneofthosedf|Oneofthosedf]] [[User talk:Oneofthosedf|(talk)]] [[Special:Contributions/Oneofthosedf|(contribs)]]''' 19:46, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

== Forms of Pokémon that should be added into this list ==

I know that I spoke about this more that two years ago, but there are a lot of inconsistencies in the list regarding which Pokémon forms get to be in this list and which don't, I get that Gigantamax and Mega's aren't allowed in this list, but there are Pokémon that have very different forms ranging from Gender, alternative and even different learnset's, and I think that they should be added into the list as well because there are pokemon that share the exact situation has the ones that I'm going to propose that are already on the list.

Candidates for inclusion on the list based in multiple criteria:

By gender extreme differences:

Indeedee Female

Pyroar Female

Meowstic Female

Basculegion Female

(Pokémon subject to this criteria that are already present on the list with Male and Female forms are: Unfezant, Frillish and Jellycent)

Pokemon with special forms that can't be changed:

Lycanrock Midnight form

Lycanrock Dusk form

Toxtricity Low Key form

Sandy Cloak Wormadam

Trash Cloak Wormadam

(Pokémon subject to this criteria that have different forms already present on the list are: Shellos, Gastrodont, Basculin and Urshifu)

Diferent Fusions with different Types:

White Kyurem

Black Kyurem

Dusk Mane Necrozma

Dawn Wings Necrozma

Ultra Necrozma

Pokemon with the capability of change between forms upon different scenarios:

Wishiwashi School form

Cherrim Sunshine form

Landorus Therian form

Thundurus Therian form

Tornadus Therian form

Enamorus Therian form

Keldeo Resolute form

Zygarde 10% form

Zygarde 100% form

(Pokémon subject to this criteria that have different forms already present on the list are: Castform, Rotom, Melloeta, Hoopa, Shaymin, Oricorio, Deoxis, Dialga, Palkia and Gyratina)

Please consider adding the proposed forms listed above, or consider delisting the Pokémon forms that are already present in parentheses at the end of each category, since if the Pokémons requested to be added are not added personally I don't see a justified reason to keep the extra forms that are present at the moment.

--[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 18:23, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

Also this should be more easy now that we have the Pokémon HOME models for this list --[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 18:28, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

:Being as long as it is, I think adding on to the list uneccessarily unless its a non-battle form change that changes the user's type. That being said, there are some forms missing that can be added, and I agree that some of the listings, like the gender differences, are superfluous. - [[User:Chosen|Chosen]] ([[User talk:Chosen|Talk]]) 01:11, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

{{indent}}These and many forms have (mostly) been added. You can see [[User:Tiddlywinks/List of Pokémon by National Pokédex number|here]] a list of forms that were not included (as of pre-SV). Generally, forms for abandoned mechanics (like Megas) are excluded.

These details could change with discussion. I know that all forms are pretty much in HOME, which may argue for adding Megas and such. (If we do do that, I feel like we should throw in Spiky-eared Pichu and other non-HOME forms too.) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 06:10, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

:If I may make suggestions, I think that form names could be split into new lines with <nowiki> </nowiki>tag like it is done on many pages already. How about adding generation number to each Pokémon so new people would know they can't have Alolan Pokemon in games like FRLG despite existing in LGPE? What about slight cellpadding so these files won't look so squeezed? Also, there's a small mistake with Cramorant's type and tables aren't curved at the bottom.--'''[[User:Team Rocket Grunt|Rocket]] [[User talk:Team Rocket Grunt|Grunt]]''' 08:10, 8 November 2022 (UTC)
::Personally, I'm not all about line breaks. IDK about anyone else, but at times I'll just copy a column/table straight from the page, and line breaks mess with that. (And comparing, say, the type pages, I'm not wowed by the difference in presentation. I could even argue that this format is better.)
::I did actually consider adding a column for game introduced, but I didn't get any feedback about that idea and didn't quite feel like mocking it up, so that part is completely untested.
::If you want to suggest what you think looks good for padding, I can see. But IMO it's "fine" for now. /shrug
::Roundy is about the last thing I'm worried about honestly. If I work on the list again, I may see about it. (It's definitely not worth adding some condition to the templates.) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 22:18, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

==Eternal Floette==

Not included on this page (should be) and all it had was the menusprite. It will need a redirect. Probably [[File:AZ's Floette.png|90px]] will do. '''[[User:Oneofthosedf|Oneofthosedf]] [[User talk:Oneofthosedf|(talk)]] [[Special:Contributions/Oneofthosedf|(contribs)]]''' 19:46, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

== Pokedex Arts ==

I really like that we change the classic 2D menusprites for the 2D Sugimori art for each Pokémon, since not all of them have menusprites and it most certain that in the future the old menusprites will not be used in games, we need to have a consistent art style.--[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 15:35, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

:Couldn't agree more, thank you guys for finally making this happen. Looks awesome. '''[[User:Oneofthosedf|Oneofthosedf]] [[User talk:Oneofthosedf|(talk)]] [[Special:Contributions/Oneofthosedf|(contribs)]]''' 22:42, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

I see that most forms have been cleaned up, but Basculin has only 2 of its 33 forms in the list.--[[User:Jor1ss|Jor1ss]] ([[User talk:Jor1ss|talk]]) 14:45, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
I obviously meant 3 and not 33 but it won't let me change it without signing it again.--[[User:Jor1ss|Jor1ss]] ([[User talk:Jor1ss|talk]]) 14:47, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
== Isle of Armor, Crown Tundra, Hisui, and Paldea dex numbers ==
* Hello, I'd like to request addition of Pokédex numbers for the Isle of Armor, Crown Tundra, and Hisui Pokémon. Just use the sup|Isle of Armor and sup|Crown Tundra for the IoA/CT Pokémon, add an LADex column for Hisui Pokémon.
Also, we have a few Paldea Pokédex numbers, they are: Sprigatito #001, Fuecoco #004, Quaxly #007, Lechonk #010, Pawmi #022, Fidough #076. Thanks, [[User:PinkYoshiGaming|PinkYoshiGaming]] ([[User talk:PinkYoshiGaming|talk]]) 17:26, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

== Cramorant's type ==

Cramorant's types are maldisplayed on gen 8 table. The article is locked so I hope this could be fixed soon. [[User:Saphir|Saphir]] ([[User talk:Saphir|talk]]) 12:27, 8 November 2022 (UTC)
:Thanks for pointing it out. (Also TRG.) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 22:21, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

== Gen 9 Dex numbers are largely incorrect ==

The numbers here are their index number in the data, not their National Dex numbers which we don't actually know yet and while that's fine, we need to let people know that.--[[User:Nintenfreak|Nintenfreak]] ([[User talk:Nintenfreak|talk]]) 00:52, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

::I think the Chinese-language wiki has the intended National Dex numbers on the pages of each individual Pokemon, but if there's no way to conform the numbers 100% they should be reverted to "#???" but ordered using their numbers in the Paldea Pokedex. [[User:Superjustinbros.|Superjustinbros.]] ([[User talk:Superjustinbros.|talk]]) 01:17, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
:::Did the hard work:

{{ndexh|Scarlet|Violet}}
{{ndex|906|Sprigatito|Grass}}
{{ndex|907|Floragato|Grass}}
{{ndex|908|Meowscarada|Grass|Dark}}
{{ndex|909|Fuecoco|Fire}}
{{ndex|910|Crocalor|Fire}}
{{ndex|911|Skeledirge|Fire|Ghost}}
{{ndex|912|Quaxly|Water}}
{{ndex|913|Quaxwell|Water}}
{{ndex|914|Quaquaval|Water|Fighting}}
{{ndex|915|Lechonk|Normal}}
{{ndex|916|Oinkologne|Normal}}
{{ndex|???|Tarountula|Bug}}
{{ndex|???|Spidops|Bug}}
{{ndex|???|Nymble|Bug}}
{{ndex|???|Lokix|Bug|Dark}}
{{ndex|???|Pawmi|Electric}}
{{ndex|???|Pawmo|Electric|Fighting}}
{{ndex|???|Pawmot|Electric|Fighting}}
{{ndex|???|Clodsire|Poison|Ground}}
{{ndex|???|Tandemaus|Normal}}
{{ndex|???|Maushold|Normal}}
{{ndex|???|Fidough|Fairy}}
{{ndex|???|Dachsbun|Fairy}}
{{ndex|???|Smoliv|Grass|Normal}}
{{ndex|???|Dolliv|Grass|Normal}}
{{ndex|???|Arboliva|Grass|Normal}}
{{ndex|???|Squawkabilly|Normal|Flying}}
{{ndex|???|Nacli|Rock}}
{{ndex|???|Naclstack|Rock}}
{{ndex|???|Garganacl|Rock}}
{{ndex|???|Annihilape|Fighting|Ghost}}
{{ndex|???|Charcadet|Fire}}
{{ndex|???|Armarouge|Fire|Psychic}}
{{ndex|???|Ceruledge|Fire|Ghost}}
{{ndex|???|Tadbulb|Electric}}
{{ndex|???|Bellibolt|Electric}}
{{ndex|???|Wattrel|Electric|Flying}}
{{ndex|???|Kilowattrel|Electric|Flying}}
{{ndex|???|Dudunsparce|Normal}}
{{ndex|???|Farigiraf|Normal|Psychic}}
{{ndex|???|Maschiff|Dark}}
{{ndex|???|Mabosstiff|Dark}}
{{ndex|???|Shroodle|Poison|Normal}}
{{ndex|???|Grafaiai|Poison|Normal}}
{{ndex|???|Bramblin|Grass|Ghost}}
{{ndex|???|Brambleghast|Grass|Ghost}}
{{ndex|???|Toedscool|Ground|Grass}}
{{ndex|???|Toedscruel|Ground|Grass}}
{{ndex|???|Klawf|Rock}}
{{ndex|???|Capsakid|Grass}}
{{ndex|???|Scovillain|Grass|Fire}}
{{ndex|???|Rellor|Bug}}
{{ndex|???|Rabsca|Bug|Psychic}}
{{ndex|???|Flittle|Psychic}}
{{ndex|???|Espathra|Psychic}}
{{ndex|???|Tinkatink|Fairy|Steel}}
{{ndex|???|Tinkatuff|Fairy|Steel}}
{{ndex|???|Tinkaton|Fairy|Steel}}
{{ndex|???|Wiglett|Water}}
{{ndex|???|Wugtrio|Water}}
{{ndex|???|Bombirdier|Flying|Dark}}
{{ndex|???|Finizen|Water}}
{{ndex|???|Palafin|formname=Zero Form|Water|forms=2}}
{{ndex/form|???|Palafin|-Hero|Hero Form|Water}}
{{ndex|???|Varoom|Steel|Poison}}
{{ndex|???|Revavroom|Steel|Poison}}
{{ndex|???|Cyclizar|Dragon|Normal}}
{{ndex|???|Orthworm|Steel}}
{{ndex|???|Glimmet|Rock|Poison}}
{{ndex|???|Glimmora|Rock|Poison}}
{{ndex|???|Greavard|Ghost}}
{{ndex|???|Houndstone|Ghost}}
{{ndex|???|Flamigo|Flying|Fighting}}
{{ndex|???|Cetoddle|Ice}}
{{ndex|???|Cetitan|Ice}}
{{ndex|???|Kingambit|Dark|Steel}}
{{ndex|???|Veluza|Water|Psychic}}
{{ndex|???|Dondozo|Water}}
{{ndex|???|Tatsugiri|formname=Curly Form|Dragon|Water|forms=3}}
{{ndex/form|???|Tatsugiri|-Droopy|Droopy Form|Dragon|Water}}
{{ndex/form|???|Tatsugiri|-Stretchy|Stretchy Form|Dragon|Water}}
{{ndex|???|Great Tusk|Ground|Fighting}}
{{ndex|???|Scream Tail|Fairy|Psychic}}
{{ndex|???|Brute Bonnet|Grass|Dark}}
{{ndex|???|Flutter Mane|Ghost|Fairy}}
{{ndex|???|Slither Wing|Bug|Fighting}}
{{ndex|???|Sandy Shocks|Electric|Ground}}
{{ndex|???|Iron Treads|Ground|Steel}}
{{ndex|???|Iron Bundle|Ice|Water}}
{{ndex|???|Iron Hands|Fighting|Electric}}
{{ndex|???|Iron Jugulis|Dark|Flying}}
{{ndex|???|Iron Moth|Fire|Poison}}
{{ndex|???|Iron Thorns|Rock|Electric}}
{{ndex|???|Frigibax|Dragon|Ice}}
{{ndex|???|Arctibax|Dragon|Ice}}
{{ndex|???|Baxcalibur|Dragon|Ice}}
{{ndex|???|Gimmighoul|formname=Chest Form|Ghost|forms=2}}
{{ndex/form|???|Gimmighoul|-Roaming|Roaming Form|Ghost}}
{{ndex|???|Gholdengo|Steel|Ghost}}
{{ndex|???|Wo-Chien|Dark|Grass}}
{{ndex|???|Chien-Pao|Dark|Ice}}
{{ndex|???|Ting-Lu|Dark|Ground}}
{{ndex|???|Chi-Yu|Dark|Fire}}
{{ndex|???|Roaring Moon|Dragon|Dark}}
{{ndex|???|Iron Valiant|Fairy|Fighting}}
{{ndex|???|Koraidon|Fighting|Dragon}}
{{ndex|???|Miraidon|Electric|Dragon}}
|}
::::What seem to be the intended Dex numbers for the Paldea Pokemon were added in the first patch which came out on launch day, maybe that could be used as the basis for the national Dex numbers since they're all put in a more proper order? [[User:Superjustinbros.|Superjustinbros.]] ([[User talk:Superjustinbros.|talk]]) 03:35, 20 November 2022 (UTC)

Number 980 and 987 are missing from the list. Is that an error or have they just not been revealed yet? --[[User:DudeGuy|DudeGuy]] ([[User talk:DudeGuy|talk]]) 02:57, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
::They are dummied out Pokémon not in the base game but should be added with updates, which is why I suspect this isn't the actual National Dex number. It's more likely this is the internal index number. You can see sketches of what these Pokémon will look like while playing the game.--[[User:Nintenfreak|Nintenfreak]] ([[User talk:Nintenfreak|talk]]) 03:37, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

==Notes==

Meadow Vivillon is listed as the Polar Pattern, Paldean Tauros are missing, and I get why Arceus has "Arceus" under its name, but it's really redundant. If the Deerling and Cramorant forms are listed separately, then Ash-Greninja and Eternal Floette should also be listed. '''[[User:Oneofthosedf|Oneofthosedf]] [[User talk:Oneofthosedf|(talk)]] [[Special:Contributions/Oneofthosedf|(contribs)]]''' 00:14, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

==Paldean Tauros==

Just wanted to note that Paldean Tauros' type is wrong, and that all breeds should be listed as they have different types. [[User:Petrichor|Petrichor]] ([[User talk:Petrichor|talk]]) 18:04, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

== hey ==

the official artworks for all Gen 9 Pokemon are arriving!
[[User:WASPED 302168|WASPED 302168]] ([[User talk:WASPED 302168|talk]]) 14:52, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

I have a question, how much time is often need aft the games official release and the full release of the official arts for every Pokémon???
2, 3 or 4 months???
[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 17:35, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

Talk:Paldea League

2022-11-28T20:28:36Z

Neos: Created page with "I wanna say something, I got a special dialog after the interview of the Champion Assessment test, in my first try after defeating the 8 gyms, that said that the youngest pers..."

I wanna say something, I got a special dialog after the interview of the Champion Assessment test, in my first try after defeating the 8 gyms, that said that the youngest person that answered perfectly in her first try was Nemona. can we add this to the trivia? [[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 20:28, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

Talk:ONBS

2022-09-12T21:57:56Z

Neos: /* ONBS stands for ... */ new section

==Image Inconsistency==
The image used for a "typical broadcast" is from Colosseum. ONBS did not exist in Colosseum, as its members were known as KIDS GRID in such game, and not newscasters. The image should be replaced with one from XD and actually of ONBS. [[User:TraxScrip813|TraxScrip813]] ([[User talk:TraxScrip813|talk]]) 11:38, 27 March 2017 (UTC)
: Seconded, it is stated fairly explicitly that ONBS was founded after and due to the events of Colosseum. [[User:The Great Butler|The Great Butler]] ([[User talk:The Great Butler|talk]]) 06:36, 18 April 2017 (UTC)

== Prize Money Discrepancy ==

I just fought the Cipher Commander, and unlike what is listed here, I received $2000 in prize money instead of $1840. Is there a reason for this in terms of how the game calculates this, or was this just an error?

[[User:ScottOshawott|ScottOshawott]] ([[User talk:ScottOshawott|talk]]) 23:37, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

== ONBS stands for ... ==

Can we say that the letters in ONBS stand for Orre's news broadcasting system?
--[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 21:57, 12 September 2022 (UTC)

Talk:List of Pokémon by National Pokédex number/Archive 2

2022-08-27T15:35:24Z

Neos: /* Pokedex Arts */ new section

== Archives ==
* [[Talk:List of Pokémon by National Pokédex number/Archive 1|Archive 1]]
__TOC__
== Gen VI ==
<s>Could Aurorus and Tyrantrum be added to the page, or will they be added after this mystery Pokémon is revealed tomorrow?</s> Scratch that. Aurorus, Tyrantrum, and Doublade need to be added. --[[User talk:Relicant|The]] [[Special:Contributions/Relicant|Truth]] aka Relicant 16:19, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

== 719, 720, 721 ==

I remember reading somewhere that someone discovered Pokemon past Zygarde. Should we add them? [[User:Liberty Bell|Liberty Bell]] ([[User talk:Liberty Bell|talk]]) 14:25, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
:We know about them, but we can't really confirm them since this time we neither can crack into the game to see all the data, nor they've been officialy revealed... at least for now. [[User:Uploader|Uploader]] ([[User talk:Uploader|talk]]) 14:39, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

== Cottonee's type change ==

Can anyone add Fairy type to Cottonee please, that's because it's evolution is also Fairy type. Thank you! [[User:Cinday123|Cinday123]] ([[User talk:Cinday123|talk]]) 06:56, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

== False typing ==

Cottonee and Whimsicott are not fairy type. Why do people keep stating that when you cannot even find them in x or y? --[[User:Admantus|Admantus]] ([[User talk:Admantus|talk]]) 19:07, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
:You can't catch them yourself, but they are used by other Trainers in battle facilities, etc. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 20:19, 1 December 2013 (UTC)

::And according to Serebii, Cottonee line is now Fairy type, however, you can't catch them in Kalos and the only way to get them is to transfer Pokémon from Black, White, Black 2 or White 2 to X or Y, this is because it is not available to catch in Kalos however you have a chance to see them in battle facilities whereas Trainers used Whimsicott. [[User:Cinday123|Cinday123]] ([[User talk:Cinday123|talk]]) 08:52, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

Well, Serebii might be wrong, because they haven't even updated the sprites for the other unobtainable pokemon that appear post-game. I think that the types should be switched back to pure grass until pokemon bank comes out. --[[User:Admantus|Admantus]] ([[User talk:Admantus|talk]]) 20:56, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

:That has nothing to do with it. I mean, the information on Bulbapedia is always confirmed information. And any information that wasn't confirmed gets removed. So, the fact that Cottonee/Whimsicott being Grass/Fairy hasn't been removed or altered back to it's original information/typing means it's been confirmed. And like [[User:Cinday123|Cinday123]] and others have said, just because you can't catch it in the Kalos region games doesn't mean you can't still obtain it. And that means, the information for Cottonee & Whimsicott are programmed in the games. So, I say let it be. [[User:DarienLeonhart|DarienLeonhart]] ([[User talk:DarienLeonhart|talk]]) 21:52, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

== Order ==

Is it just me or are the pokemon listed for gen VI out of order? Not like broken, but I see like 114 right after 93 and etc. ★☆[[User:Togetic45|'''Toge''']][[User talk:Togetic45|'''tic''']][[Special:Contributions/Togetic45|'''45''']]☆★ 18:58, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
:It's not out of order. Those are the Pokemon's Kalos Dex numbers. The list is ordered by the National Dex numbers. --[[User:Funktastic~!|'''It's''' '''Funktastic~!''']][[User talk:Funktastic~!|''話してください'']] 19:05, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

== Secret Gen 6 Pokemon ==

What about those secret Pokemon from Gen 6? The ones after Zygarde? Shouldn't they be on here now? [[User:MegaNerd18|MegaNerd18]] ([[User talk:MegaNerd18|talk]]) 11:36, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

:I'm so sorry, the Pokémon Company haven't revealed these mythical Pokémon so let's just leave it for now until it's revealed so we don't know yet. [[User:Cinday123|Cinday123]] ''([[User talk:Cinday123|Talk]])'' 12:24, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

Well I think the hacker who discovered the secret Pokemon is reliable because the Pokemon he found where: Hoopla, Volcanion, Daince, Fancy Vivillon, and the Mega Eon twins. Four out of six have revealed. If we do put in Hoopla and Volcaion when should put a little star (*) like on the list of Pokemon in the a area in the ranger game if you must release them after you catch them. --[[User:AbsolX|AbsolX]] ([[User talk:AbsolX|talk]]) 17:46, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

== Generation VI Sprites ==

Why there are no sprites for the new Pokémon introduced in X and Y? [[User:Dalton358|Dalton358]] ([[User talk:Dalton358|talk]]) 20:25, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
:Because we don't have them and we don't allow taking from other sites without permission. [[User:Glik|Glik]] ([[User talk:Glik|talk]]) 20:33, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
::I figured it would take longer to get them, because it's on a different system. I wonder how the other websites got their images. [[User:Dalton358|Dalton358]] ([[User talk:Dalton358|talk]]) 21:41, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
:::They have 3DS capture cards. Few Bulbapedia users do, and the only ones I've seen with them have been focusing on other things, like Trainer images. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 21:44, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

== Multiple Pokédeces in Generation VI ==
In the Generation VI, there are 3 Pokédeces: Kalos Central, Kalos Coastal and Kalos Mountain. For example:
# Chespin is Kalos Central #001
# Inkay is Kalos Coastal #010
# Goomy is Kalos Mountain #019
The list doesn't reflect it.

-[[User:Iosue|Iosue]] ([[User talk:Iosue|talk]]) 08:27, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
:That's because this is the National Pokédex list. You want [[List of Pokémon by Kalos Pokédex number]]. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 08:32, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
::Of course I understand that. I am not stupid. I can read. What I am suggesting is to add a very small token in front of each Kalos number to indicate if it is Central, Coastal or Mountain, as these are a part of the Generation VI dex. If there is no indication of the sub-region, the column of the table of Generation VI will have limited meaning here. I'd suggest you either delete the whole column, or add the small indication of which sub-region the number belongs to. -[[User:Iosue|Iosue]] ([[User talk:Iosue|talk]]) 04:39, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
:::This is still an issue. Scatterbug and Sligoo are still labeled with the same number in the Kalos Dex without distinction. Also, that column is labelled VIDex, which will be misleading with the release of ORAS. --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 06:55, 17 July 2014 (UTC)
::::I concur with the main issue. Don't write completely undifferentiated numbers as if all you have to do is scroll through one Pokedex to find any given Pokemon; that's not at all the case. Do something like this:
{{rdexh|X|Y|dexname={{color2|000|List of Pokémon by Kalos Pokédex number|VIdex}}}}
{{rdex|001Ce|650|Chespin|1|Grass}}
{{rdex|002Ce|651|Quilladin|1|Grass}}
|}
::::I would also strongly suggest linking the regional 'dex abbreviations in the headers so people can click on them and immediately jump to those 'dexes. (If this were done, this would make "VIdex" less "misleading".) I linked "VIdex" above, and I'll demonstrate the same for the other generations below...
{{rdexh|red|green|dexname={{color2|000|List of Pokémon by Kanto Pokédex number|Kdex}}}}
|}
{{rdexh|gold|silver|dexname={{color2|000|List of Pokémon by Johto Pokédex number|Jdex}}}}
|}
{{rdexh|ruby|sapphire|dexname={{color2|000|List of Pokémon by Hoenn Pokédex number|Hdex}}}}
|}
{{rdexh|diamond|pearl|dexname={{color2|000|List of Pokémon by Sinnoh Pokédex number|Sdex}}}}
|}
{{rdexh|black|white|dexname={{color2|000|List of Pokémon by Unova Pokédex number|Udex}}}}
|}
::::For that matter, I'd also suggest linking "Ndex" similarly in [[Template:Rdexh|the header template]] so it links easily back here on the regional 'dex pages. ...And "Type" could also be linked, just because it's the sort of thing that ''should'' be clickable. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 08:47, 17 July 2014 (UTC)
:::::This is still an issue. Scatterbug and Sligoo are still labeled with the same number in the Kalos Dex without distinction. Also, Diancie needs its Kalos Dex number added (#151 in Central). --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 09:43, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
::::::As Abcboy said, this remains an issue. I have taken the liberty of creating [[User:Tiddlywinks/List of Pokémon by National Pokédex number|a user page]] that fixes the main issue in this discussion. The page also incorporates my idea for 'dex links in the headers, as well as renames the Kalos section's table header from "VIdex", a name that is not proper considering the existence of ORAS now.
::::::I hope someone on staff will take a cursory look at my user page and then copy the code onto this page (give or take the headers, perhaps), so that this issue may finally be solved. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 21:58, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
:::::::Bump... [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 10:29, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

== Color ==

I noticed that the color coordination is not in accord with the Kalos National Pokédex. Shouldn't each region get the appropriate color attributed to them? [[User:Mr. Guye|Mr. Guye]] ([[User talk:Mr. Guye|talk]]) 20:57, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

:Interesting observation. I had never noticed the color coding in the Kalos National Pokédex before, but it's there, and is to my knowledge the first time an official source has used color coding to denote regions.
:Bulbapedia currently uses specific colors for regions, but this particular page uses the colors of the first games taking place in those regions. Perhaps the colors for the tables on this page should be replaced with the region colors. Meanwhile, replacing the region colors themselves with the ones in X and Y is a discussion that should take place but might be too big for this page. I would recommend taking that up with a staff member. --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] [[User talk:AndyPKMN|(talk)]] 18:36, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

== The icon for diancie. ==
Now that Diancie has been released, you guys need to update this page to contain the sprite for diancie so it is no longer a grey question mark. [[User:Randomviewer896|Random Viewer]]

== Flabébé line ==

We've done it for Shaymin, Burmy and Rotom (as well as others) and the sprites are in the Archives, so can an admin (since I can't edit the page) add on the different mini sprites of them, or explain to me why they aren't used on it? Thanks.--[[User:Ditto51|Ditto51/Tom]] ([[User_Talk:Ditto51|My Talk Page]]) 20:47, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

== Save space ==

Welcome. I got the idea, in which a list of Pokemon replace the tiles. It would have saved a lot of space and reduced the site to a minimum. Imagine this:
{|
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #001
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:001Bulbasaur.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Bulbasaur}}}}}
|-
| align=center style="{{roundybl|5px}} background:#{{Grass color}}" width=50% | [[Grass (type)|Grass]]
| align=center style="{{roundybr|5px}}; background:#{{Poison color}}" width=50% | [[Poison (type)|Poison]]
|}
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #002
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:002Ivysaur.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Ivysaur}}}}}
|-
| align=center style="{{roundybl|5px}} background:#{{Grass color}}" width=50% | [[Grass (type)|Grass]]
| align=center style="{{roundybr|5px}}; background:#{{Poison color}}" width=50% | [[Poison (type)|Poison]]
|}
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #003
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:003Venusaur.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Venusaur}}}}}
|-
| align=center style="{{roundybl|5px}} background:#{{Grass color}}" width=50% | [[Grass (type)|Grass]]
| align=center style="{{roundybr|5px}}; background:#{{Poison color}}" width=50% | [[Poison (type)|Poison]]
|}
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #004
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:004Charmander.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Charmander}}}}}
|-
| colspan=2 align=center style="{{roundybottom|5px}} background:#{{Fire color}}" | [[Fire (type)|Fire]]
|}
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #005
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:005Charmeleon.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Charmeleon}}}}}
|-
| colspan=2 align=center style="{{roundybottom|5px}} background:#{{Fire color}}" | [[Fire (type)|Fire]]
|}
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #006
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:006Charizard.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Charizard}}}}}
|-
| align=center style="{{roundybl|5px}} background:#{{Fire color}}" width=50% | [[Fire (type)|Fire]]
| align=center style="{{roundybr|5px}}; background:#{{Flying color}}" width=50% | [[Flying (type)|Flying]]
|}
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #007
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:007Squirtle.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Squirtle}}}}}
|-
| colspan=2 align=center style="{{roundybottom|5px}} background:#{{Water color}}" | [[Water (type)|Water]]
|}
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #008
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:008Wartortle.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Wartortle}}}}}
|-
| colspan=2 align=center style="{{roundybottom|5px}} background:#{{Water color}}" | [[Water (type)|Water]]
|}
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #009
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:009Blastoise.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Blastoise}}}}}
|-
| colspan=2 align=center style="{{roundybottom|5px}} background:#{{Water color}}" | [[Water (type)|Water]]
|}
|}

As you can see images of Pokémon will be bigger and will take less than half the length now. --[[User:Dominikololo|Dominikololo]] ([[User talk:Dominikololo|talk]]) 09:47, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

:I don't necessarily agree with this idea. It looks better and shows off a Pokémon's appearance in full instead of just resorting to the icon, yes, but it's a lot more complex to work with incase there's an error. If you want to make it, you can do it as a personal user page under something like [[User:Dominikololo/Visual National Pokédex]] just to give us a full example. [[User:Superjustinbros.|Superjustinbros.]] ([[User talk:Superjustinbros.|talk]]) 03:30, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

== Generation III ==

Considering the fact the Johto Pokédex part of the Gen II Pokémon section was updated to the newer version from HG/SS, it's probably best we update Hoenn's under the Gen III Pokémon section to the one from ΩR/αS. [[User:Nintendocan|Nintendocan]] ([[User talk:Nintendocan|talk]]) 00:17, 25 December 2014 (UTC)

== Hoopa Unbound and Dex numbers ==

Hoopa's Unbound form needs to be added. Diancie, Hoopa and Volcanion's Dex numbers also. [[User:Asmod96|Asmod96]] ([[User talk:Asmod96|talk]]) 16:09, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

{{rdexh|X|Y|VI}}
{{rdex|150|718|Zygarde|2|Dragon|Ground}}
{{rdex|151|719|Diancie|2|Rock|Fairy}}
{{rdex|152|720|Hoopa|2|Psychic|Ghost}}
{{rdex|152|720U|Hoopa|2|Psychic|Dark}}
{{rdex|153|721|Volcanion|2|Fire|Water}}
|}

== Sun and Moon Legendary Mascots ==

Can someone who has access to editing this page add [http://www.serebii.net/news/2016/20-April-2016.shtml Solgaleo and Lunaala] to the Gen VII list? They have been revealed along with the Alola starters, but remained nameless in the video. --[[User:PKMNAdventurer|PKMNAdventurer]] ([[User talk:PKMNAdventurer|talk]]) 23:16, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
:As you say, they are nameless. Until there is confirmation, we will not be assuming their names. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 23:26, 10 May 2016 (UTC)

== Charjabug and Vikavolt ==

Shouldn't Charjabug and Vikavolt be immediately after Grubbin, seeing as they're its evolutions? [[User:Pokemega32|Pokemega32]] ([[User talk:Pokemega32|talk]]) 13:55, 1 July 2016 (UTC)
:I noticed that too; I think whoever renamed/added them meant to move both Rockruff and Komala down, but somehow missed Rockruff... [[User:AmoongussForLife|AmoongussForLife]] ([[User talk:AmoongussForLife|talk]]) 14:14, 1 July 2016 (UTC)
::Just went to look at it and it seems SnorlaxMonster got it covered. Thanks for pointing it out. Too bad we don't know anything about their official numbering yet, but I guess they want to keep some things (how many 'Mons, for instance" a secret, so meh. [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 17:32, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

== Hippowdon ==

If Unfezant and Frillish line are included twice for both genders, shouldn't Hippowdon be added as well? Their appearance is quite different as well.
Same goes for several other cases, if Hoopa and Meloetta have their forms added, why not Keldeo or Kami trio? Who decides what should appear and what shouldn't, and by what rule??? {{unsigned|KingisNitro}}
:The Hippos, it may be because official art (see [[Hippopotas (Pokémon)]], the big image at the top) AFAIK has never depicted the female forms, while for {{p|Frillish}} and {{p|Unfezant}} it has.
:The difference between Hoopa and Meoetta vs Keldeo and the Kami trio may be that the former change types when they change form. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 16:35, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
::Another contributing reason is that the game does not have gender-specific menu sprites for the Hippopotas family. Together with the lack of a type difference between genders, adding a seperate row for the other gender will not accomplish anything content-wise. [[User:Chenzw|Chenzw]] ([[User talk:Chenzw|talk]]) 16:49, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
:::Basculin is also listed twice, by the way. Vivillon, that also changes menu sprite depending on forms, is only included once (understandably because of how many form differences it has).
:::I mean I was mostly asking, so thanks for "justifying" it. Also, regarding whether it adds anything content-wise - except for the type changing forms, nothing really adds any content (Frillish, Hippos, Unfezant, Basculin, Vivillon), which is why I was puzzled. Didn't seem like there was any actual reason to include multiples. But I guess Sugimori arts are a good enough reason (I just couldn't figure it out). {{unsigned|KingisNitro}}

== Alolan ==

Someone needs to add the recently revealed Pokemon, which I assume would include Alolan Forms (as they all change type.) [[User:AmoongussForLife|AmoongussForLife]] ([[User talk:AmoongussForLife|talk]]) 17:32, 1 August 2016 (UTC)

:No, I think this page is better suited for the Pokémon with their natural Pokémon types to help prevent the page from getting too messy or confusing. This is why separate sub-pages are better suited to handling this such as the [[Mega Evolution]] page. -[[User:Tyler53841|Tyler53841]] ([[User talk:Tyler53841|talk]]) 00:37, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
::FWIW, the Alola Forms' types are no less natural than the forms we've always known. That said, we haven't yet decided whether we want the Alola Forms here or not. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 00:41, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
:::I would think that the Alolan Forms should be added, as the type changes, it appears the Pokémon don't switch between the two (an Ice/Fairy Ninetales would have Ice Vulpix), and multiple entries are added for Darmanitan, which is a similar case. I suppose the second point is mostly speculation at this point, though, but I don't think it would hurt the page overall. [[User:AmoongussForLife|AmoongussForLife]] ([[User talk:AmoongussForLife|talk]]) 01:06, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

== Wimpod's types ==

[[Wimpod]]'s types are Bug/Water, not Water/Bug. Someone should fix it. --[[User:RafaelGN|RafaelGN]] ([[User talk:RafaelGN|talk]]) 03:09, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
:Fixed. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 03:23, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

== Wishiwashi, Pyukumuku, and Morelull ==

This page still lists the japanese names even though the English names are revealed and confirmed and the pages for them use the English names. [[User:AztecCroc|AztecCroc]] ([[User talk:AztecCroc|talk]]) 14:16, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

== Rugarugan ==

Someone needs to add Rugarugan after Rockruff; it's been over a day. [[User:AmoongussForLife|AmoongussForLife]] ([[User talk:AmoongussForLife|talk]]) 17:19, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
:I will try see if I can. [[User:Awesomevenustoise101|Awesomevenustoise101]] ([[User talk:Awesomevenustoise101|talk]]) 17:22, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
::never mind I didn't know that the page is protected. [[User:Awesomevenustoise101|Awesomevenustoise101]] ([[User talk:Awesomevenustoise101|talk]]) 17:23, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
:::It hasn't been added because there is no page for it and it hasn't been officially revealed, it was leaked. The admins know what they are doing and it will be added when it gets added. --[[User:HoennMaster|Hoenn]][[User talk:HoennMaster|Master]] 17:25, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

== why is this page protected? ==

why is this page protected? I want to add Rugarugan after Rockruff but I can't. [[User:Awesomevenustoise101|Awesomevenustoise101]] ([[User talk:Awesomevenustoise101|talk]]) 17:25, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
:Most of the time it doesn't need to be changed, and when it does, we don't want people jumping the gun on rumors and stuff. Things like this we (as staff) update it when it's appropriate to do so. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 17:48, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

== Rowlet National dex number and menu sprites ==

On the [http://www.pokemon-sunmoon.com/en-us/pokemon-bank/ Pokémon Bank page] on the official site, menu sprites for several Gen VII Pokémon have been shown, and Rowlet have been confirmed as #722. Here's direct links for the relevant images: [http://www.pokemon-sunmoon.com/media/uploads/sept_20_assets/screenshots/top/sept20_p12_01_en.png Top screen], [http://www.pokemon-sunmoon.com/media/uploads/sept_20_assets/screenshots/bottom/sept20_p12_01_en.png Bottom screen] - [[User:RHeegaard|RHeegaard]] ([[User talk:RHeegaard|talk]]) 00:21, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

:I'm assuming that the reason only Rowlet, Litten, Popplio, and Pikipek were uploaded is because they are the only ones with numbers (I am curious where you got official evidence of Litten, Popplio, and Pikipek's numbers though?), but would it not be possible to upload the others as "DrampaMS.png" and such so that they can be listed? It would make the table easier to read, I think. It's also what we do with artwork (whereas Pikachu's artwork is [[a:File:025Pikachu.png|File:025Pikachu.png]], Drampa's is [[a:File:Drampa.png|File:Drampa.png]]), so it's not like it goes against Bulbapedia's other efforts. [[User:Nutter Butter|Nutter Butter]] ([[User talk:Nutter Butter|talk]]) 03:05, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
::In large part, most places where menu sprites are used simply ''cannot'' accomodate filenames like DrampaMS (this page being an excellent example of such a place). The few places it might be usable aren't really worth it. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 03:20, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

== Additions ==

Can we add: [[Steenee (Pokémon)]], [[Tsareena (Pokémon)]], [[Hakamo-o (Pokémon)]], [[Ribombee (Pokémon)]]? [[User:Kidburla|Kidburla]] ([[User talk:Kidburla|talk]]) 14:01, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
:They've already been added. --[[User:Carmenstar97|Carmen★]] ''[[User talk:Carmenstar97|(Talk |]] [[Special:Contributions/Carmenstar97|contribs)]]'' 14:02, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
::Thanks. Seems they were added while I was typing the post. [[User:Kidburla|Kidburla]] ([[User talk:Kidburla|talk]]) 16:44, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
:::For future reference, if you just wait, someone will almost assuredly get to it soon enough. (I mean, if someone asked this every time there was a new reveal, this page would probably quickly end up bloated.) If it's 24 hours later, ''then'' it's late. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 16:50, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

== Oricorio ==

How come {{p|Castform}} has all of its forms on the list but {{p|Oricorio}} doesn't? --[[User:PKMNAdventurer|PKMNAdventurer]] ([[User talk:PKMNAdventurer|talk]]) 00:06, 6 January 2017 (UTC)
:Personally, it could be due to the criteria, but I cannot tell. So, here is a hopefully complete list of what Pokémon with multiple menu sprites appear and which do not.
:From the group that does appear: Unfezant (Gender difference), Frillish (Gender), Jellicent (Gender), Castform (Ability), Deoxys (Form), Burmy (Form), Wormadam (Form), Shellos (Form), Gastrodon (Form), Rotom (Form), Giratina (Item), Shaymin (Item), Basculin (Form), Darmanitan (Ability), Meloetta (Move), Hoopa (Item), All Alolan Pokémon (Form)
:From the group that does ''not'' appear: Pyroar (Gender difference), Meowstic (Gender), Ash-Greninja (Ability), Zygarde (Forme), Kyurem (Item), Cosplay Pikachu (Form), Pikachu (Unknown), Spiky-eared Pichu (Form), Unown (Form), Cherrim (Ability), Arceus (Item), Flabébé (Form), Floette (Form), Florges (Form), Deerling (Form), Sawsbuck (Form), Tornadus (Item), Thundurus (Item), Landorus (Item), Keldeo (Move), Vivillon (Form), Furfrou (Form), Aegislash (Ability), Oricorio (Item), Silvally (Item), Minior (Ability), All Mega/Primal Evolution Pokémon (Item/Move),
:...So, basically, I would guess that this might have been potentially overlooked. Who is to say? Granted, I do understand that Unown, Vivillon, Arceus, and Silvally likely are excluded for a good reason. --[[User:Super goku|Super goku]] ([[User talk:Super goku|talk]]) 07:19, 6 January 2017 (UTC)
::IMO, there definitely should be Oricorio with all its form, I thought that only forms with different type combination are added, but if there are also some gender differences... I even think there should be Mega Evolutions, if we will be adding forms. [[User:Asmod96|Asmod96]] ([[User talk:Asmod96|talk]]) 08:13, 16 February 2017 (UTC)
:::Most of these are probably missing because, as was mentioned in my "Hippowdon" question, they don't have official Sugimori art. Frillish has official art for both genders, while Hippowdon doesn't, hence it doesn't get two pictures. P weird reasonong, but I guess it works; Oricorio DOES have official art (in fact, most mentioned Pokemon do) and the forms change typing (good enough reason if you ask me), so I think someone should add them. Also, why can't we merge the forms into a single line (similarly to [[Pokémon with unique type combinations]] page)? {{unsigned|KingisNitro}}
::::The most important thing to remember, I think, is that this is a list of Pokémon species. It's not a list of minisprites. It's not even a list of Pokémon's types—those are included supplementarily. And it's ''certainly'' not a list of Ken Sugimori art.
::::On that note, I think the inclusion and exclusion of form differences should follow a less horrendously arbitrary standard. Either A) all forms with unique minisprites or types are included, or B) only one form per species is included, determined by a consistent criterion. If we go with A, I absolutely agree with KingisNitro that they should be merged into a single row, since it makes no sense to list the same species multiple times in a list of species. If we go B, I propose that the criterion be "whichever form is leftmost in Pokémon Bank's National Pokédex", since this is consistently a form that can be considered the most basic or "default".
::::So the question is, A or B? Should we put it up to a vote? [[User:Randomwaffle23|Randomwaffle23]] ([[User talk:Randomwaffle23|talk]]) 02:27, 4 September 2017 (UTC)
:::::I am going to mention that this technically is over six month old, but I will say that if anyone wants to put this up for a vote or needs to make a new section to discuss this can go ahead. Though, I do want to note that we now have issues with Pokémon like Togekiss who have two menu sprites just for which side they are facing. --[[User:Super goku|Super goku]] ([[User talk:Super goku|talk]]) 07:05, 14 September 2017 (UTC)
:This is still not "fixed". If castform's forms count then I really do think many of the others should be included as well. Maybe not all Unown or Vivillon forms since they're purely cosmetic. I do think forms that change type or stats should be included (like Necrozma or Zygarde forms...) -[[User:Jor1ss|Jor1ss]] ([[User talk:Jor1ss|talk]]) 17:04, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
::So, personally, I'm sorry that this keeps getting forgotten. On the other hand, even now, I can't muster enough of myself to "care" about it to check everything and do it up right... If someone wants to create a user page, we can look at it and see what's different and decide how much should be added. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 22:44, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
:::I'd love to help with adding them but maybe I can't because my account is only 1 day old? I'm also not sure what having a userpage would do for adding to the list? Isn't a userpage just a page for each user? I'm very new here so I don't really know what to do sorry. -[[User:Jor1ss|Jor1ss]] ([[User talk:Jor1ss|talk]]) 06:48, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

==Alola==

At the very top of the page, it still doesn't list Alola with the rest of the regions. [[User:AmoongussForLife|AmoongussForLife]] ([[User talk:AmoongussForLife|talk]]) 10:53, 17 January 2017 (UTC)

== Alolan Pokedex number of new Pokemon ==

The ADex numbers of Poipole, Naganadel, Stakataka, Blacephalon, and Zeraora should be changed to 261, 262, 392, 393, and 403 respectively. [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 18:13, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
:I'm not sure if this kind of a "noisy post" or "bump" is allowed, but I need to somehow get someone to pay attention to this. [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 02:00, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

== Gliscor sprite missing ==

the Gliscor Sprite is missing, can't edit to put it in [[User:Yamitora1|Yamitora1]] ([[User talk:Yamitora1|talk]]) 17:57, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

That's just an error on your end. [[User:AztecCroc|AztecCroc]] ([[User talk:AztecCroc|talk]]) 22:04, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

== Spin-off Pokedexes? ==

Sort of an off-topic but idk where else to ask; do we have Pokedexes for side/spin-off games (Rumble, Mystery Dungeon, Pinball, Ranger, Trozei/Shuffle...)? I think it would be neat to list the Pokemon with places to find them/other important information. If so - where, if not - why? If I made them on my page, could they be added to Bulba? (Where else can I ask this question?) ~[[User:KingisNitro|'''KingisNitro''']] ([[User talk:KingisNitro|talk]]) 01:04, 12 November 2018 (UTC)
:As seen in the List of Pokémon template below the articles, yes, we do have Pokédex listing of other/spin-off games. Unless there's another listing you want to suggest.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 03:32, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

== Meltan and Melmetal should not be under "generation VII" category ==

Officially, meltan and melmetal are under the region "unknown" and as such they should both be under that new category. furthermore, their pokedex numbers are 808 and 809 officially too.
{{unsigned|Supermassimo}}
:Well, I see what you mean but this list is sorted by generation. And those Pokémon were indeed introduced in the generation it says they were. --[[User:Raltseye|Raltseye]] [[User talk:Raltseye|prata med mej]] 14:08, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

::By that logic though, shouldn't Marill and Togepi be listed as generation 1 pokemon, Munchlax as a generation 3 pokemon and Magearna as a generation 6 pokemon? In fact, every single generation other than the first had a pokemon revealed in some medium before the release of the main games and this is especially true of mythicals. (Victini is in a similar situation to Meltan being listed just after the gen 4 mythicals and before the gen 5 starters even though it is considered gen 5 itself)

::In fact, the only difference is that all these other pokemon were typically revealed in movies or the anime whereas Meltan/Melmetal are playable in Pokemon Go/Let's Go. That said, these are still just spinoff games (which actually don't even have any other gen 7 pokemon in them other than alolan forms) and neither Meltan nor Melmetal are available in any mainline gen 7 games. Finally, Pokemon Go goes as far as to classify Meltan's region as "Unknown" whereas it could have easily been listed as Alola if it was intended to be a gen 7 pokemon. (And Magearna has nothing to do with either Kalos nor Alola but is still classified as "Gen 7" in the Sun/Moon pokedex.

::Sorry, for the long rant but my point is that strictly speaking the situation for Meltan/Melmetal is "Unknown" and ideally this should be reflected on the page to avoid speculating. However, if people insist on assigning a region/generation to it, I think it's far more likely to be "Galar"/"Gen 8" and not "Alola". Just my 2 cents. [[User:MCX|MCX]] ([[User talk:MCX|talk]]) 21:52, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
:::I would agree with your logic if not for your assumption that LGPE are not mainline games. They are core Pokémon games, which has been reiterated multiple times by Masuda and the others at GF. Since they’re catchable and playable in a mainline Gen VII game, they’re Gen VII Pokémon. That’s what separates them from cases like Bonsly, which I think would have been a much better example than Marill or Munchlax. --[[User:Celadonkey|celadonk]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 12:47, 18 March 2019 (UTC)
::::I'm still not convinced that it's relevant nor that it's the case that LGPE are core titles. I'm not sure which interview you are referring to when saying that Masuda has stated that LGPE are core games but afaik Sword and Shield were first announced as the unnamed 2019 mainline Switch games in e3 2017. Then LGPE were announced at a later time and people were giving GF crap until they clarified that LGPE weren't the same as the previously announced 2019 titles. Correct me if I remember any of this incorrectly but if not, this would indicate that LGPE are something less than core games. If LGPE are core games that's the equivalent of GF announcing Sun/Moon after XY and then saying "oh btw, before SM we are gonna release gen 3 remakes, they aren't the same games as SM, we just thought we should announce gen 7 first." Yeah, LGPE are much closer gameplay-wise to the core games than, say, mystery dungeon or pokemon pinball but they are also not quite there.

::::Moreover, even if Masuda has said in an interview "LGPE are core titles", I'm still not sure if that is relevant in classifying Meltan's gen. LGPE don't have Crobat or Electivire or any gen 2-7 pokemon but they have Megas and Alolan forms and Meltan. This is just a weird situation where they used Meltan as a promo thing - not at all an indication that it's gen 7. They've even dropped mainline mechanics like breeding and abilities... Meltan being there doesn't conclusively prove anything. I doubt we will get any official statement like "Btw Meltan belongs in X gen" but we are still probably going to get a conclusive answer when they colour code Meltan along with either the gen 7 or gen 8 pokemon in some future title's pokedex. I'm just saying that until then we should keep its status as "Unknown" because that's what it currently is. [[User:MCX|MCX]] ([[User talk:MCX|talk]]) 23:49, 26 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::You can check the interview section in the LGPE guidebook if you don't believe that he explicitly has said that they're core titles. "These games aren't spinoffs. These are core Pokémon titles" is the exact quote. Since Meltan and Melmetal appeared in Gen 7 core titles, they're Gen 7 Pokemon. Simple enough. If for whatever reason they change that, then we'll change that too. But we don't really have any reason to believe otherwise. --[[User:Celadonkey|celadonk]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 23:56, 26 March 2019 (UTC)

== Request to add Trivia section ==

I would like to see a Trivia section added to the bottom of the list, with the following single item:

* With the sole exception of {{p|Type: Null}}, all English Pokémon names in this list are also used for Italian and Spanish languages. The names for '''Type: Null''' in Italian and Spanish are, respectively, ''Tipo Zero'' and ''Código Cero''.

This is to avoid the need for any separate '''List of Italian Pokémon names''' and '''List of Spanish Pokémon names''' pages that would differ from this English page by ONLY ONE ROW. ''(Currently, those two page titles are redirects to the English list.)'' --[[User:SilSinn9801|''SilSinn'']] ([[TID]]s: '''768426[[Pokémon Sun|S]]''', '''123446[[Pokémon Ultra Moon|UM]]''') ([[User talk:SilSinn9801|talk]]) 10:01, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

==Gen 8 Starters==
Grookey, Scorbunny, and Sobble would be National Pokedex 810, 813, and 816. Can these numbers please be added? [[User:Kimichael4317|Kimichael4317]] ([[User talk:Kimichael4317|talk]]) 05:38, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
:We do not actually ''know'' that so no, they won't be added. --[[User:Raltseye|Raltseye]] [[User talk:Raltseye|prata med mej]] 05:43, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
::We have no guarantee as to whether there would be another Victini-like scenario where a Mythical Pokémon would be enumerated right before the starters (as happened in Unova, twice). Hence why we cannot safely assume 810, 813, 816 – it could end up being 811, 814, 817. ‑‑[[User:SilSinn9801|''SilSinn'']] ([[TID]]s: '''768426[[Pokémon Sun|S]]''', '''123446[[Pokémon Ultra Moon|UM]]''') [[User talk:SilSinn9801|💬]] 07:52, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

== Zekrom has an extra space next to his name. ==

That is all. {{unsigned|MrKarato}}
:Fixed. And don't forget to sign your comments.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 06:01, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

== Handling forms + smaller suggestions ==

As far as I can tell there's no pattern to how forms are handled on this page. Some Pokémon with alternate forms or major gender differences have their forms present, others do not. Frankly, since it’s a list of Pokémon species according to their number, no Pokémon with form differences should be even included in a different line. Either the alternate forms should be removed entirely, only including the “base” form, or the lines should be combined like on List of Pokémon with unique type combinations. Personally, I'd prefer to have no forms displayed-- it would make the page a whole lot cleaner and easier to use-- but I can see the purpose of displaying forms, so I think that something like this would be best:

{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{firered color}}; background: #{{firered color}}"
! style="{{roundytl|5px}}; background: #{{leafgreen color light}}" | Kdex
! style="background: #{{leafgreen color light}}" | Ndex
! style="background: #{{leafgreen color light}}" | MS
! style="background: #{{leafgreen color light}}" | Pokémon
! style="{{roundytr|5px}}; background: #{{leafgreen color light}}" colspan="2" | Type</noinclude>
|- style="background:#FFF"
| rowspan="2" style="font-family:monospace" | <nowiki>#</nowiki>026
| rowspan="2" style="font-family:monospace" | <nowiki>#</nowiki>026
| {{MSP|026|Raichu}}
| rowspan="2" | {{p|Raichu}}
| colspan="2" style="text-align:center; background:#{{electric color}}" | [[Electric (type)|Electric]]
|- style="background:#FFF"
| {{MSP|026A|Raichu}}
| style="text-align:center; background:#{{electric color}}" | [[Electric (type)|Electric]]
| style="text-align:center; background:#{{psychic color}}" | [[Psychic (type)|Psychic]]
|}

Again, I think that not displaying forms would be the best way to go, but either way, the current system of handling forms is unsatisfactory, both in the inconsistency between which forms are shown and which are not, and in the actual formatting of the forms.

Additionally, I have two smaller suggestions. First, I believe that it would be better to display the National Pokédex number before the regional Pokédex number, rather than vice versa, as this is a page on the National Pokédex, and that should take priority. Second, at the end of each section, there is no roundy template on the bottom, as you can see above, which makes the bottom of each section square and not as aesthetically pleasing. --[[User:Celadonkey|celadonk]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 20:05, 29 March 2019 (UTC)

The problem with formes/forms is that there's many different kinds of forms. There's only visual forms (most male female differences/unown forms etc) and there's forms where the stats change (meowstic male/female for instance). There's forms where the typing changes (Wormadom/Necrozma's various forms). There's temporary forms that are only visible in battle (megas/greninja/cherubi). There's temporary forms that are changed by using an item or by depositing the pokemon or by whatever arbitrary reason (giratina/tornadus etc.). There's also regional forms, where a pokemon cannot change to the other form but is basically a different pokemon altogether (alolan and soon galarian forms). Maybe the list should just include all the base forms? And then there could be a seperate table listing all the additional forms for a pokemon?[[User:Jor1ss|Jor1ss]] ([[User talk:Jor1ss|talk]]) 12:40, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

== Information to readers ==

I want to modify the title section, but I have no permission. Could someone add the sentence “All English, Italian and Spanish Pokémon names are identical, but, depending on the language, they're pronounced differently.”? --[[User:TheICTLiker4|'''TheICT''']][[User talk:TheICTLiker4|'''Liker4''']] 18:19, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
:That's not relevant to the article at all.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 04:13, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
::Well, most european languages use the same names as the English version anyway, in fact only German and French are the the ones that consistently differ. Unless you count the languages that use a different alphabet, only Serbian, Lithuanian and some more perhaps are the only ones that does not use the standard English names instead transcribing it to their own orthography. So I see no really point in mentioned them all here. A simple line like <code>most other languages using the Latin alphabet also uses these names</code> would suffice in my opinion.
::I'm thinking maybe if it's okay with the staff around to make redirect for <code>List of Swedish/Icelandic/Spanish/Romanian/etc. Pokémon names</code> to this page.
::Otherwise, if you're interested, at least one Spanish and Italian name do actually differ from the English name, {{p|Type: Null}}. I've made list articles about which names I have found being used in other languages [[User:Raltseye/Template:Pokelist|here]].
::--[[User:Raltseye|Raltseye]] [[User talk:Raltseye|prata med mej]] 13:43, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

== Yamper and Impidimp ==

They're not on here for some reason? Can someone who can edit this page fix that?[[User:AztecCroc|AztecCroc]] ([[User talk:AztecCroc|talk]]) 13:33, 15 June 2019 (UTC)

== Aug 7 Trailer - New Pokémon ==

In the newest trailer, two new Pokémon (Obstagoon and Morpeko), as well as the Galarian forms of Weezing, Zigzagoon, and Linoone were revealed. I don't see them listed on this page yet, those Impidimp, which has still not been officially revealed is. [[User:CMP|CMP]] ([[User talk:CMP|talk]]) 18:46, 9 August 2019 (UTC)

== Missing ==

Currently, Galarian Meowth is missing from this list. [[User:MarioMiner|MarioMiner]] ([[User talk:MarioMiner|talk]]) 03:00, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

== Dex Shortcuts ==

Can we get the dex shortcuts removed or redirected correctly? They're just redirecting to the top of this page. [[User:Joe kik as|Joe kik as]] ([[User talk:Joe kik as|talk]]) 17:33, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
:That's the point of the shortcuts. They're just redirects of this article, and they're there for reference.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 04:32, 15 January 2020 (UTC)
::But why is it at the top of the page if it's just redirecting to the top. If anything it should redirect to different pages corresponding to those links. [[User:Joe kik as|Joe kik as]] ([[User talk:Joe kik as|talk]]) 16:32, 15 January 2020 (UTC)
:::I already said why, they're there for reference. To let users know which shortcut to type out in the search bar if they wanted to find this article easier (since typing out the entire title would be a hassle). The other dex listings also have shortcuts that lead to their respective articles.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 16:55, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

== Ndex as the first column ==

I think the Ndex number should probably be the first column. This is the main subject of this list.

The Ndex is currently the 2nd column, which seems like a secondary position. (even though in the case of the first 151 Pokémon, the numbers are the same) --[[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 10:14, 31 January 2020 (UTC)
:{{template|rdex}} is convenient. I don't think it's that big an issue to make another template just for this. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 03:23, 1 February 2020 (UTC)
::I'm with Daniel here. This is a list of Pokemon by National Pokedex number. Surely that should be the primary focus. --[[User:Celadonkey|celadonk]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 18:19, 1 February 2020 (UTC)
:::I could do the job of creating a new template and editing this page if this idea is accepted. It could be simply a new template based on {{template|rdex}} with reverse parameters. A possible name could be {{template|nrdex}} (since {{template|ndex}} is taken) .--[[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 00:50, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
::::The header is the only thing here that would need to be changed if this were to be done. --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 01:05, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
:::::Aside from that, we may also want to reverse the order of the numbers for each Pokémon in [[List of Pokémon by National Pokédex number]], to make the wikitext match the resulting page. I can do this if needed. --[[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 02:38, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

== Pokémon with different forms not present in the list ==

I don't understand the criteria for Pokémon with different forms, by the type of them:

Gender differences : We do not include the forms of Indeedee, Pyroar and Meowstic, But we allow Unfezant, Frillish and Jellycent?

Different permanent forms but with the same typing: Lycanrock and Toxtricity. But it allows other permanent forms, e.g. Shellos, Gastrodont and Basculin.

Different Forms and different types: Kyurem and Necruzma. But allows Castform, Rotom, Melloeta, Hoopa, Shaymin and Oricorio.

Different Battle forms but same types: Wishiwashi, Cherrim, Landorus, Thundurus, Tornadus, Kyurem, Keldeo, Greninja, Zygarde and Minior are not included. But Deoxis and Gyratina are on the list.

No applicable to the above criteria: Unown, Arceus, Deerling, Sawsbuck, Vivillon, The Flabébé Family and Furfrou. But we do have Burmy and Wormadam and Urshifu. (I understand that the Pokémon in this las criteria have a lot of forms, and that the reason of not their including is for space and order in the page)

Can some one please explain me the criteria for allowing the different forms selection?

--Neos 10:19, April 16 2020 (UTC)
:Yeah, it does seem rather arbitrary to me.

:I think I've mentioned this above but this page is a list of Pokemon by number first and foremost. Including forms at all, imo, muddles the numbering up, at least for me. --[[User:Celadonkey|celadonk]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 13:48, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

::I think we should take out the unnecessary forms --[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 00:36, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

== You forgot NDex# of Galarian Slowking ==

Force Fire: You added NDex numbers for Galarian forms of Slowbro & the Legendary Birds (even if no menu sprites exist for them yet), but you forgot Galarian Slowking:
<pre>{{rdex||???|Slowking|1|???}}</pre>
Given this page is protected, I cannot change the page myself; could you please provisionally change that line to:
<pre>{{rdex||199G|Slowking|1|???}}</pre>
‐⁠‑''[[User:SilSinn9801|SilSinn]]'' ([[TID]]s: '''768426[[Pokémon Sun|S]]''', '''123446[[Pokémon Ultra Moon|UM]]''') [[User talk:SilSinn9801|💬]] 17:01, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
:Fixed --[[User:Spriteit|Spriteit]] ([[User talk:Spriteit|talk]]) 01:21, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
::This page needs to be edited as Galarian Slowking's type was confirmed to be Poison/Psychic like Galarian Slowbro was. [[User:Kangaflora|Kangaflora]] ([[User talk:Kangaflora|talk]]) 19:01, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

== 891-893 ==

Pokemon Home's Pokedex , after this morning's patch, seems to confirm that Kubfu, Urshifu, and Zarude are numbers 891, 892, and 893 respectively. That is all. Sorry if this text is really big for some reason.{{unsigned|Zigzagoon97}}

== (Understandable) Style Inconsistencies ==

To be consistent with the style of the page before the Crown Tundra was released, only Calyrex's base form should be present, as neither Kyurem (which, admittedly, does not change type) nor Necrozma (which does change type, and thus should be treated exactly the same way as Calyrex) have their fusion forms present on this list. Alternatively, including Necrozma's forms, and possibly Kyurem's forms, would solve this issue. [[User:MarioMiner|MarioMiner]] ([[User talk:MarioMiner|talk]]) 22:58, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
:Another style inconsistency - in the Generation IV section of the page, Heatran, Regigigas, Cresselia, Phione, Darkrai, Shaymin, and Arceus, the Gen IV Pokémon without Sinnoh Pokédex numbers, have their portions of the "Sdex" column blank. However, Meltan, Melmetal, Kubfu, Urshifu, Zarude, Regieleki, Regidrago, Glastrier, Spectrier, and Calyrex, all Pokémon that do not appear in their respective generations' regional Pokédexes, have "#---" in their regional Pokédex (Adex for Meltan and Melmetal, Gdex for the rest) columns. [[User:MarioMiner|MarioMiner]] ([[User talk:MarioMiner|talk]]) 00:06, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

== Zygarde's Forms ==
Zygard seems to be the only Pokémon currently missing alternate forms.
[[User:RomajiMiltonAmulo|RomajiMiltonAmulo]] ([[User talk:RomajiMiltonAmulo|talk]]) 01:45, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

== Legends: Arceus Pokémon ==

Are the Pokémon and Regional Forms that were shown in the new [[Pokémon Legends: Arceus]] trailer going to be added now or when the game releases? -[[User:Ratboy Jr.|Ratboy Jr.]] ([[User talk:Ratboy Jr.|talk]]) 22:40, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

== Mega Aerodactyl needs to be added. ==

A couple Megas were forgotten to be added. Could you please scout through and add them? {{unsigned|Necrozma800}}
:They are left out for a reason, Mega Evolutions are not completely new species, they are a transformed state of the same base species.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 07:06, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

== Legends arceus pokemon ==

We need numbers for Basculegion, wyrdeer, Kleavor, we need these pokemon added Overqwil, Enamorus, Ursaluna, and Sneasler. Dex numbers (national) are : 899 is Wyrdeer 900 is Kleavor 901 is Ursaluna 902 is Basculegion 903 is Sneasler 904 is Overqwil, 905 is Enamorus, so yeah [[User:ItsRobloxHere|ItsRobloxHere]] ([[User talk:ItsRobloxHere|talk]]) 00:24, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

== H.Goodra's typing ==

it should be Steel/Dragon, not Dragon/Steel.
[[User:Anzasquiddles|Anzasquiddles]] ([[User talk:Anzasquiddles|talk]]) 05:56, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

== Hisuian Braviary's MSP, and Origin Formes for Dialga and Palkia ==

Well, the second point is more of a question. I see there's plenty of contention on the matter of form-inclusion, but Giratina's Origin Forme is on the list so I thought I'd mention it.
[[User:Pichugetic|Pichugetic]] ([[User talk:Pichugetic|talk]]) 01:06, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

: Oh, just noticed: also Hisuian Avalugg. [[User:Pichugetic|Pichugetic]] ([[User talk:Pichugetic|talk]]) 07:31, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

== Unfezant, Frillish and Jellycent: only one entry per Pokémon? ==

For the majority of Pokémon, only the male appearence is shown. However, it does not apply for Shellos, Gastrodon, Unfezant, Frillish and Jellycent. Shellos and Gastrodon are region-based in several (all?) games, so displaying both appearances is justified, but it does not apply for Unfezant, Frillish and Jellycent. So is there something special about those 3 Pokémon that grants 2 entries for each of them in the list? [[User:Y2110|Y2110]] ([[User talk:Y2110|talk]]) 11:42, 21 May 2022 (UTC)

EDIT: Oh, it has already been discussed on this page. My bad

== 3D Sprites ==
[[File:001MS8.png|thumb|right|68px|SwSh Bulbasaur (68px)]]
[[File:902MS.png|thumb|right|68px|PLA Basculegion (68px)]]
[[File:HOME001.png|thumb|right|60px|HOME Bulbasaur (60px)]]
[[File:HOME902.png|thumb|right|60px|HOME Basculegion (60px)]]

Why have the 2D sprites been changed to the 3D Pokemon Home ones? The 3D sprites mesh horribly with the tables and lists, take up too much space, and have too much color and detail making it hard to focus on anything but the sprites themselves. I can understand wanting to upgrade but sometimes less is more especially for someone who has sensitive eyes or ADHD. There could at least be an option to select whether you what to view 2D or 3D sprites.[[User:Strawhatroger|Strawhatroger]] ([[User talk:Strawhatroger|talk]]) 16:57, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
:It's a necessity. We already had too much inconsistency between sprites from SwSh, LGPE, PLA and older ones, soon we'll get another ones for SV which would make it even worse. Fortunately HOME sprite are very consistent and exist for alternate forms. They don't take more space because previously we already had big 68px squares.--'''[[User:Team Rocket Grunt|Rocket]] [[User talk:Team Rocket Grunt|Grunt]]''' 17:34, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

The HOME sprites pop out way too much and are too bright hurting my eyes making it very difficult to do thing like look at lists without straining my eyes.[[User:Strawhatroger|Strawhatroger]] ([[User talk:Strawhatroger|talk]]) 17:55, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

::I've added some Bulbasaur and Basculegion image examples at the top of this discussion now.
::As TRG was saying, the list with 2D sprites was using inconsistent styles (including 2D sprites from SwSh like that Bulbasaur, and 3D face portraits from PLA like that Basculegion). We may have 2D sprites for most of the currently available Pokémon, but not all of them.
::Since you mentioned the size, let me point out that those 2D sprites typically were 68px images with white space around the Pokémon (a lot of white space in my opinion). I've changed them to those 3D images with 60px size, so they are occupying less space than before.
::For instance, it seems there are at least 1,000 lines on these tables, so the page should be approximately 8,000 pixels shorter than before with the current 3D sprites.
::Although to be fair, the image size can be changed in the template so it could become smaller or larger if needed. If anyone thinks that the 2D sprites with a lot of whitespace around looked good, it's also possible to add whitespace around the 3D images (without needing to edit the images). --[[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 18:43, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

:::Did someone reverted the 3D sprites? now they are back to the 2D ones.
:::I really support the idea of using the HOME menu sprites for this page and for what I have seen in the latest SV trailers the classic Menu minisprites are now gone. So by using as the source of sprites HOME we will be sure that's there will be a unify menu art style. --[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 21:57, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

::::Yes. The change was reverted back to the 2D sprites, pending further discussion. Sorry for the trouble. --[[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 23:01, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

Finally! Someone who actually listens to other people's opinions and uses common sense. I've looked at any trailer and screenshot of SV I could find and if anything it looks like 2D sprites will be returning, and if it really comes down to it perhaps we can just use the official artwork since it's easier on the eyes.[[User:Strawhatroger|Strawhatroger]] ([[User talk:Strawhatroger|talk]]) 05:02, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

==Urshifu and Female Pokémon==

Since the two forms of Urshifu shared a menusprite, the Home art for Rapid Strike style Urshifu will have to be added manually globally. I don't think there is another Pokémon with this issue. Female Pokémon such as Unfezant, Jellicent, etc. will also have to be added manually. And since they are included, the female forms of Meowstic, Indeedee, Basculegion and Pyroar should have their own entries as well. Or none of them should. Just make it consistent. Necrozma is also missing its forms, even though they change type. '''[[User:Oneofthosedf|Oneofthosedf]] [[User talk:Oneofthosedf|(talk)]] [[Special:Contributions/Oneofthosedf|(contribs)]]''' 18:00, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
:I'm wondering if we should change female forms manually or the HOME images could be renamed. I'm fine with both, but I'd like to know what to do.--'''[[User:Team Rocket Grunt|Rocket]] [[User talk:Team Rocket Grunt|Grunt]]''' 19:02, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

::Yeah, I'm adding the Urshifu sprite to move pages, but I'll wait with Indeedee and Meowstic, as a simple redirect would solve those issues as opposed to Urshifu. '''[[User:Oneofthosedf|Oneofthosedf]] [[User talk:Oneofthosedf|(talk)]] [[Special:Contributions/Oneofthosedf|(contribs)]]''' 19:46, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

== Forms of Pokémon that should be added into this list ==

I know that I spoke about this more that two years ago, but there are a lot of inconsistencies in the list regarding which Pokémon forms get to be in this list and which don't, I get that Gigantamax and Mega's aren't allowed in this list, but there are Pokémon that have very different forms ranging from Gender, alternative and even different learnset's, and I think that they should be added into the list as well because there are pokemon that share the exact situation has the ones that I'm going to propose that are already on the list.

Candidates for inclusion on the list based in multiple criteria:

By gender extreme differences:

Indeedee Female

Pyroar Female

Meowstic Female

Basculegion Female

(Pokémon subject to this criteria that are already present on the list with Male and Female forms are: Unfezant, Frillish and Jellycent)

Pokemon with special forms that can't be changed:

Lycanrock Midnight form

Lycanrock Dusk form

Toxtricity Low Key form

Sandy Cloak Wormadam

Trash Cloak Wormadam

(Pokémon subject to this criteria that have different forms already present on the list are: Shellos, Gastrodont, Basculin and Urshifu)

Diferent Fusions with different Types:

White Kyurem

Black Kyurem

Dusk Mane Necrozma

Dawn Wings Necrozma

Ultra Necrozma

Pokemon with the capability of change between forms upon different scenarios:

Wishiwashi School form

Cherrim Sunshine form

Landorus Therian form

Thundurus Therian form

Tornadus Therian form

Enamorus Therian form

Keldeo Resolute form

Zygarde 10% form

Zygarde 100% form

(Pokémon subject to this criteria that have different forms already present on the list are: Castform, Rotom, Melloeta, Hoopa, Shaymin, Oricorio, Deoxis, Dialga, Palkia and Gyratina)

Please consider adding the proposed forms listed above, or consider delisting the Pokémon forms that are already present in parentheses at the end of each category, since if the Pokémons requested to be added are not added personally I don't see a justified reason to keep the extra forms that are present at the moment.

--[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 18:23, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

Also this should be more easy now that we have the Pokémon HOME models for this list --[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 18:28, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

:Being as long as it is, I think adding on to the list uneccessarily unless its a non-battle form change that changes the user's type. That being said, there are some forms missing that can be added, and I agree that some of the listings, like the gender differences, are superfluous. - [[User:Chosen|Chosen]] ([[User talk:Chosen|Talk]]) 01:11, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

==Eternal Floette==

Not included on this page (should be) and all it had was the menusprite. It will need a redirect. Probably [[File:AZ's Floette.png|90px]] will do. '''[[User:Oneofthosedf|Oneofthosedf]] [[User talk:Oneofthosedf|(talk)]] [[Special:Contributions/Oneofthosedf|(contribs)]]''' 19:46, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

== Pokedex Arts ==

I really like that we change the classic 2D menusprites for the 2D Sugimori art for each Pokémon, since not all of them have menusprites and it most certain that in the future the old menusprites will not be used in games, we need to have a consistent art style.--[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 15:35, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

Talk:Quaxly (Pokémon)

2022-08-21T19:33:38Z

Neos: /* national dex */

==Booby Bird?==

Quaxly's blue feet makes it resemble a booby bird of some kind since they also have blue feet. {{unsigned|Galefuun}}

==Name==

Quaxly's name may be derived from a Basque spelling for "Quack", hence the use of 'x'. This would tie in with the whole Spain theme the region is apparently based on (as controversial as this may be, considering the whole nationalism conflict they have going on). {{unsigned|CroissantBoe}}
:It also is likely its name is based on Don Quixote, it has the hat too.
{{unsigned|Komi028}}
:The more I think about it, Quaxly is clearly Basque (the X, the hat). I don't think Don Quixote has a lot in common aside from the X (which may actually be just Old Spanish languages using the letter more), as the character is cannonically from La Mancha which is in Castilla. {{unsigned|CroissantBoe}}
:Is it really Basque though? [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-linguistic_onomatopoeias I looked it up] and the Basque onomatopoeia for duck sounds/duck calling are "karra karra" or "par par". the word for quack (as in the noun) in Basque according to Google Translate is even "karraro". I think Don Quixote is a slightly more likely inspiration (although we don't know anything about its evolved forms yet, so i'm happy with the page just saying that it's a generic sailor-ish duck mon until we get more info). [[User:Anzasquiddles|Anzasquiddles]] ([[User talk:Anzasquiddles|talk]]) 21:37, 27 February 2022 (UTC)
::I think Quixote could be part of it, but we'll need to see if the rest of the evolutionary line shares the reference.--[[User:Kodakami|Kodakami]] ([[User talk:Kodakami|talk]]) 02:08, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

:Quaxly's name could be a combination of "Quack" and "Exactly", given the description of its personality ("earnest and tidy"). "Exactly" lends the "-ly" and the "x", while the short "a" ties them together.--[[User:Kodakami|Kodakami]] ([[User talk:Kodakami|talk]]) 01:57, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
:: Feels like too much of a stretch tbh. like you have to pretty much mangle the word "exactly" into just "a", "x", and "-ly" to fit it into Quaxly's name. [[User:Anzasquiddles|Anzasquiddles]] ([[User talk:Anzasquiddles|talk]]) 12:01, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

'quack' + 'sly'. 'cks' becomes 'x' [[User:ReignBough|ReignBough]] ([[User talk:ReignBough|talk]]) 16:13, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
: A friend of mine brought up this same possibility, but I can't see the connection to Quaxly being sly - at least not enough to base it's name on. A counter example might be Bonsly, whose family line deceives you into thinking they're trees, so, sly enough to be named after it.--[[User:Kodakami|Kodakami]] ([[User talk:Kodakami|talk]]) 18:46, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

== Similarity to Spanish People's Party logo ==

The symbol in his head is one of the political parties in Spain, PP (Partido Popular/Popular Party). 
The symbology is upside dowm but it clearly looks like it because if you rotate it in combination with the PP main color (blue) looks close to identical. {{unsigned|Xyruux}}
:Personally, I highly doubt they would make any reference to any political party in a Pokémon's design. By the way, please remember to sign your comments with four tildes <nowiki>(~~~~)</nowiki> or use the signature and timestamp button on the editing toolbar. Also, please use the preview button before making changes instead of making several edits in a row, in order to avoid cluttering the edit history and the recent changes feed. Thanks! [[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']]''' 02:43, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
:Or the symbol in Quaxly's head is a stylized wave? because it's a Water type?? More specifically though i think it's supposed to be like a stylized emblem on sailor's hats. like how sailor hats usually have an anchor or bird or national emblem or something on its front; on Quaxly it's a wave. [[User:Anzasquiddles|Anzasquiddles]] ([[User talk:Anzasquiddles|talk]]) 04:36, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
:The similarity to the PP logo and colors is really striking and interesting, but I agree with Landfish7 that it is ''extremely'' unlikely that the Pokémon Company would choose to do this. Firstly, basing a Pokémon's design on a political party could backfire for them in a number of ways, particularly if that party is suddenly the subject of seriously bad press. And secondly, I think it would be very unusual to incorporate the official logo (even modified), since that would require not only permanently tying the character to the political organization, but also paying a licensing fee. I think it's possible we'll find that the hat design has some other significance that will become apparent when Quaxly's evolutionary forms are revealed. --[[User:Kodakami|Kodakami]] ([[User talk:Kodakami|talk]]) 19:15, 3 March 2022 (UTC)

== Resemblance to Ducklett? ==

Maybe I'm looking way too far into things, but this lil' guy reminds me of {{p|Ducklett}}. Probably coincidental, but maybe trivia worthy? [[User:GalarChampionAverie|Champion Averie]], signing off! ([[User talk:GalarChampionAverie|Need anything?]]) 17:46, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
:"This Pokémon resembles another Pokémon" isn't that trivia worthy, imo. like, Caterpie and Wurmple are both caterpillars, that doesn't imply anything beyond the fact. Unless it's something that's explicitly mentioned in behind the scenes info (like in the trivia section for {{p|Aurorus}}'s page, designer Hitoshi Ariga mentioned that he chose to base Aurorus on the Amargasaurus to make it distinct from similar long-necked dinosaur mons like Deino and Meganium). [[User:Anzasquiddles|Anzasquiddles]] ([[User talk:Anzasquiddles|talk]]) 19:06, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
: Quaxly sure does look a bit like Ducklett, I agree. I was never a fan of Ducklett's bland design, so to me, Quaxly's design is what Ducklett should have looked like from the start. That said, I don't think there's any relation besides them both being blue ducks, along with Golduck. --[[User:Kodakami|Kodakami]] ([[User talk:Kodakami|talk]]) 19:21, 3 March 2022 (UTC)

==national dex==
quaxly's national dex number is '''912'''. [[User:AxewBowser2022|AxewBowser2022]] ([[User talk:AxewBowser2022|talk]]) 19:09, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
:How do you know?? --[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 19:33, 21 August 2022 (UTC)

Talk:List of Pokémon by National Pokédex number/Archive 2

2022-08-16T21:59:14Z

Neos: /* 3D Sprites */

== Archives ==
* [[Talk:List of Pokémon by National Pokédex number/Archive 1|Archive 1]]
__TOC__
== Gen VI ==
<s>Could Aurorus and Tyrantrum be added to the page, or will they be added after this mystery Pokémon is revealed tomorrow?</s> Scratch that. Aurorus, Tyrantrum, and Doublade need to be added. --[[User talk:Relicant|The]] [[Special:Contributions/Relicant|Truth]] aka Relicant 16:19, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

== 719, 720, 721 ==

I remember reading somewhere that someone discovered Pokemon past Zygarde. Should we add them? [[User:Liberty Bell|Liberty Bell]] ([[User talk:Liberty Bell|talk]]) 14:25, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
:We know about them, but we can't really confirm them since this time we neither can crack into the game to see all the data, nor they've been officialy revealed... at least for now. [[User:Uploader|Uploader]] ([[User talk:Uploader|talk]]) 14:39, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

== Cottonee's type change ==

Can anyone add Fairy type to Cottonee please, that's because it's evolution is also Fairy type. Thank you! [[User:Cinday123|Cinday123]] ([[User talk:Cinday123|talk]]) 06:56, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

== False typing ==

Cottonee and Whimsicott are not fairy type. Why do people keep stating that when you cannot even find them in x or y? --[[User:Admantus|Admantus]] ([[User talk:Admantus|talk]]) 19:07, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
:You can't catch them yourself, but they are used by other Trainers in battle facilities, etc. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 20:19, 1 December 2013 (UTC)

::And according to Serebii, Cottonee line is now Fairy type, however, you can't catch them in Kalos and the only way to get them is to transfer Pokémon from Black, White, Black 2 or White 2 to X or Y, this is because it is not available to catch in Kalos however you have a chance to see them in battle facilities whereas Trainers used Whimsicott. [[User:Cinday123|Cinday123]] ([[User talk:Cinday123|talk]]) 08:52, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

Well, Serebii might be wrong, because they haven't even updated the sprites for the other unobtainable pokemon that appear post-game. I think that the types should be switched back to pure grass until pokemon bank comes out. --[[User:Admantus|Admantus]] ([[User talk:Admantus|talk]]) 20:56, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

:That has nothing to do with it. I mean, the information on Bulbapedia is always confirmed information. And any information that wasn't confirmed gets removed. So, the fact that Cottonee/Whimsicott being Grass/Fairy hasn't been removed or altered back to it's original information/typing means it's been confirmed. And like [[User:Cinday123|Cinday123]] and others have said, just because you can't catch it in the Kalos region games doesn't mean you can't still obtain it. And that means, the information for Cottonee & Whimsicott are programmed in the games. So, I say let it be. [[User:DarienLeonhart|DarienLeonhart]] ([[User talk:DarienLeonhart|talk]]) 21:52, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

== Order ==

Is it just me or are the pokemon listed for gen VI out of order? Not like broken, but I see like 114 right after 93 and etc. ★☆[[User:Togetic45|'''Toge''']][[User talk:Togetic45|'''tic''']][[Special:Contributions/Togetic45|'''45''']]☆★ 18:58, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
:It's not out of order. Those are the Pokemon's Kalos Dex numbers. The list is ordered by the National Dex numbers. --[[User:Funktastic~!|'''It's''' '''Funktastic~!''']][[User talk:Funktastic~!|''話してください'']] 19:05, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

== Secret Gen 6 Pokemon ==

What about those secret Pokemon from Gen 6? The ones after Zygarde? Shouldn't they be on here now? [[User:MegaNerd18|MegaNerd18]] ([[User talk:MegaNerd18|talk]]) 11:36, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

:I'm so sorry, the Pokémon Company haven't revealed these mythical Pokémon so let's just leave it for now until it's revealed so we don't know yet. [[User:Cinday123|Cinday123]] ''([[User talk:Cinday123|Talk]])'' 12:24, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

Well I think the hacker who discovered the secret Pokemon is reliable because the Pokemon he found where: Hoopla, Volcanion, Daince, Fancy Vivillon, and the Mega Eon twins. Four out of six have revealed. If we do put in Hoopla and Volcaion when should put a little star (*) like on the list of Pokemon in the a area in the ranger game if you must release them after you catch them. --[[User:AbsolX|AbsolX]] ([[User talk:AbsolX|talk]]) 17:46, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

== Generation VI Sprites ==

Why there are no sprites for the new Pokémon introduced in X and Y? [[User:Dalton358|Dalton358]] ([[User talk:Dalton358|talk]]) 20:25, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
:Because we don't have them and we don't allow taking from other sites without permission. [[User:Glik|Glik]] ([[User talk:Glik|talk]]) 20:33, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
::I figured it would take longer to get them, because it's on a different system. I wonder how the other websites got their images. [[User:Dalton358|Dalton358]] ([[User talk:Dalton358|talk]]) 21:41, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
:::They have 3DS capture cards. Few Bulbapedia users do, and the only ones I've seen with them have been focusing on other things, like Trainer images. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 21:44, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

== Multiple Pokédeces in Generation VI ==
In the Generation VI, there are 3 Pokédeces: Kalos Central, Kalos Coastal and Kalos Mountain. For example:
# Chespin is Kalos Central #001
# Inkay is Kalos Coastal #010
# Goomy is Kalos Mountain #019
The list doesn't reflect it.

-[[User:Iosue|Iosue]] ([[User talk:Iosue|talk]]) 08:27, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
:That's because this is the National Pokédex list. You want [[List of Pokémon by Kalos Pokédex number]]. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 08:32, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
::Of course I understand that. I am not stupid. I can read. What I am suggesting is to add a very small token in front of each Kalos number to indicate if it is Central, Coastal or Mountain, as these are a part of the Generation VI dex. If there is no indication of the sub-region, the column of the table of Generation VI will have limited meaning here. I'd suggest you either delete the whole column, or add the small indication of which sub-region the number belongs to. -[[User:Iosue|Iosue]] ([[User talk:Iosue|talk]]) 04:39, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
:::This is still an issue. Scatterbug and Sligoo are still labeled with the same number in the Kalos Dex without distinction. Also, that column is labelled VIDex, which will be misleading with the release of ORAS. --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 06:55, 17 July 2014 (UTC)
::::I concur with the main issue. Don't write completely undifferentiated numbers as if all you have to do is scroll through one Pokedex to find any given Pokemon; that's not at all the case. Do something like this:
{{rdexh|X|Y|dexname={{color2|000|List of Pokémon by Kalos Pokédex number|VIdex}}}}
{{rdex|001Ce|650|Chespin|1|Grass}}
{{rdex|002Ce|651|Quilladin|1|Grass}}
|}
::::I would also strongly suggest linking the regional 'dex abbreviations in the headers so people can click on them and immediately jump to those 'dexes. (If this were done, this would make "VIdex" less "misleading".) I linked "VIdex" above, and I'll demonstrate the same for the other generations below...
{{rdexh|red|green|dexname={{color2|000|List of Pokémon by Kanto Pokédex number|Kdex}}}}
|}
{{rdexh|gold|silver|dexname={{color2|000|List of Pokémon by Johto Pokédex number|Jdex}}}}
|}
{{rdexh|ruby|sapphire|dexname={{color2|000|List of Pokémon by Hoenn Pokédex number|Hdex}}}}
|}
{{rdexh|diamond|pearl|dexname={{color2|000|List of Pokémon by Sinnoh Pokédex number|Sdex}}}}
|}
{{rdexh|black|white|dexname={{color2|000|List of Pokémon by Unova Pokédex number|Udex}}}}
|}
::::For that matter, I'd also suggest linking "Ndex" similarly in [[Template:Rdexh|the header template]] so it links easily back here on the regional 'dex pages. ...And "Type" could also be linked, just because it's the sort of thing that ''should'' be clickable. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 08:47, 17 July 2014 (UTC)
:::::This is still an issue. Scatterbug and Sligoo are still labeled with the same number in the Kalos Dex without distinction. Also, Diancie needs its Kalos Dex number added (#151 in Central). --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 09:43, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
::::::As Abcboy said, this remains an issue. I have taken the liberty of creating [[User:Tiddlywinks/List of Pokémon by National Pokédex number|a user page]] that fixes the main issue in this discussion. The page also incorporates my idea for 'dex links in the headers, as well as renames the Kalos section's table header from "VIdex", a name that is not proper considering the existence of ORAS now.
::::::I hope someone on staff will take a cursory look at my user page and then copy the code onto this page (give or take the headers, perhaps), so that this issue may finally be solved. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 21:58, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
:::::::Bump... [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 10:29, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

== Color ==

I noticed that the color coordination is not in accord with the Kalos National Pokédex. Shouldn't each region get the appropriate color attributed to them? [[User:Mr. Guye|Mr. Guye]] ([[User talk:Mr. Guye|talk]]) 20:57, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

:Interesting observation. I had never noticed the color coding in the Kalos National Pokédex before, but it's there, and is to my knowledge the first time an official source has used color coding to denote regions.
:Bulbapedia currently uses specific colors for regions, but this particular page uses the colors of the first games taking place in those regions. Perhaps the colors for the tables on this page should be replaced with the region colors. Meanwhile, replacing the region colors themselves with the ones in X and Y is a discussion that should take place but might be too big for this page. I would recommend taking that up with a staff member. --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] [[User talk:AndyPKMN|(talk)]] 18:36, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

== The icon for diancie. ==
Now that Diancie has been released, you guys need to update this page to contain the sprite for diancie so it is no longer a grey question mark. [[User:Randomviewer896|Random Viewer]]

== Flabébé line ==

We've done it for Shaymin, Burmy and Rotom (as well as others) and the sprites are in the Archives, so can an admin (since I can't edit the page) add on the different mini sprites of them, or explain to me why they aren't used on it? Thanks.--[[User:Ditto51|Ditto51/Tom]] ([[User_Talk:Ditto51|My Talk Page]]) 20:47, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

== Save space ==

Welcome. I got the idea, in which a list of Pokemon replace the tiles. It would have saved a lot of space and reduced the site to a minimum. Imagine this:
{|
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #001
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:001Bulbasaur.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Bulbasaur}}}}}
|-
| align=center style="{{roundybl|5px}} background:#{{Grass color}}" width=50% | [[Grass (type)|Grass]]
| align=center style="{{roundybr|5px}}; background:#{{Poison color}}" width=50% | [[Poison (type)|Poison]]
|}
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #002
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:002Ivysaur.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Ivysaur}}}}}
|-
| align=center style="{{roundybl|5px}} background:#{{Grass color}}" width=50% | [[Grass (type)|Grass]]
| align=center style="{{roundybr|5px}}; background:#{{Poison color}}" width=50% | [[Poison (type)|Poison]]
|}
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #003
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:003Venusaur.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Venusaur}}}}}
|-
| align=center style="{{roundybl|5px}} background:#{{Grass color}}" width=50% | [[Grass (type)|Grass]]
| align=center style="{{roundybr|5px}}; background:#{{Poison color}}" width=50% | [[Poison (type)|Poison]]
|}
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #004
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:004Charmander.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Charmander}}}}}
|-
| colspan=2 align=center style="{{roundybottom|5px}} background:#{{Fire color}}" | [[Fire (type)|Fire]]
|}
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #005
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:005Charmeleon.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Charmeleon}}}}}
|-
| colspan=2 align=center style="{{roundybottom|5px}} background:#{{Fire color}}" | [[Fire (type)|Fire]]
|}
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #006
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:006Charizard.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Charizard}}}}}
|-
| align=center style="{{roundybl|5px}} background:#{{Fire color}}" width=50% | [[Fire (type)|Fire]]
| align=center style="{{roundybr|5px}}; background:#{{Flying color}}" width=50% | [[Flying (type)|Flying]]
|}
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #007
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:007Squirtle.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Squirtle}}}}}
|-
| colspan=2 align=center style="{{roundybottom|5px}} background:#{{Water color}}" | [[Water (type)|Water]]
|}
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #008
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:008Wartortle.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Wartortle}}}}}
|-
| colspan=2 align=center style="{{roundybottom|5px}} background:#{{Water color}}" | [[Water (type)|Water]]
|}
|
{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{red color}}; background: #{{red color}};"
! colspan=2 style="{{roundytop|5px}}; background: #{{green color light}}" | Ndex: #009
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 | [[File:009Blastoise.png|100px]]
|-style="background:#FFFFFF;"
| colspan=2 align=center | {{p|{{{3|Blastoise}}}}}
|-
| colspan=2 align=center style="{{roundybottom|5px}} background:#{{Water color}}" | [[Water (type)|Water]]
|}
|}

As you can see images of Pokémon will be bigger and will take less than half the length now. --[[User:Dominikololo|Dominikololo]] ([[User talk:Dominikololo|talk]]) 09:47, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

:I don't necessarily agree with this idea. It looks better and shows off a Pokémon's appearance in full instead of just resorting to the icon, yes, but it's a lot more complex to work with incase there's an error. If you want to make it, you can do it as a personal user page under something like [[User:Dominikololo/Visual National Pokédex]] just to give us a full example. [[User:Superjustinbros.|Superjustinbros.]] ([[User talk:Superjustinbros.|talk]]) 03:30, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

== Generation III ==

Considering the fact the Johto Pokédex part of the Gen II Pokémon section was updated to the newer version from HG/SS, it's probably best we update Hoenn's under the Gen III Pokémon section to the one from ΩR/αS. [[User:Nintendocan|Nintendocan]] ([[User talk:Nintendocan|talk]]) 00:17, 25 December 2014 (UTC)

== Hoopa Unbound and Dex numbers ==

Hoopa's Unbound form needs to be added. Diancie, Hoopa and Volcanion's Dex numbers also. [[User:Asmod96|Asmod96]] ([[User talk:Asmod96|talk]]) 16:09, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

{{rdexh|X|Y|VI}}
{{rdex|150|718|Zygarde|2|Dragon|Ground}}
{{rdex|151|719|Diancie|2|Rock|Fairy}}
{{rdex|152|720|Hoopa|2|Psychic|Ghost}}
{{rdex|152|720U|Hoopa|2|Psychic|Dark}}
{{rdex|153|721|Volcanion|2|Fire|Water}}
|}

== Sun and Moon Legendary Mascots ==

Can someone who has access to editing this page add [http://www.serebii.net/news/2016/20-April-2016.shtml Solgaleo and Lunaala] to the Gen VII list? They have been revealed along with the Alola starters, but remained nameless in the video. --[[User:PKMNAdventurer|PKMNAdventurer]] ([[User talk:PKMNAdventurer|talk]]) 23:16, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
:As you say, they are nameless. Until there is confirmation, we will not be assuming their names. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 23:26, 10 May 2016 (UTC)

== Charjabug and Vikavolt ==

Shouldn't Charjabug and Vikavolt be immediately after Grubbin, seeing as they're its evolutions? [[User:Pokemega32|Pokemega32]] ([[User talk:Pokemega32|talk]]) 13:55, 1 July 2016 (UTC)
:I noticed that too; I think whoever renamed/added them meant to move both Rockruff and Komala down, but somehow missed Rockruff... [[User:AmoongussForLife|AmoongussForLife]] ([[User talk:AmoongussForLife|talk]]) 14:14, 1 July 2016 (UTC)
::Just went to look at it and it seems SnorlaxMonster got it covered. Thanks for pointing it out. Too bad we don't know anything about their official numbering yet, but I guess they want to keep some things (how many 'Mons, for instance" a secret, so meh. [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 17:32, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

== Hippowdon ==

If Unfezant and Frillish line are included twice for both genders, shouldn't Hippowdon be added as well? Their appearance is quite different as well.
Same goes for several other cases, if Hoopa and Meloetta have their forms added, why not Keldeo or Kami trio? Who decides what should appear and what shouldn't, and by what rule??? {{unsigned|KingisNitro}}
:The Hippos, it may be because official art (see [[Hippopotas (Pokémon)]], the big image at the top) AFAIK has never depicted the female forms, while for {{p|Frillish}} and {{p|Unfezant}} it has.
:The difference between Hoopa and Meoetta vs Keldeo and the Kami trio may be that the former change types when they change form. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 16:35, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
::Another contributing reason is that the game does not have gender-specific menu sprites for the Hippopotas family. Together with the lack of a type difference between genders, adding a seperate row for the other gender will not accomplish anything content-wise. [[User:Chenzw|Chenzw]] ([[User talk:Chenzw|talk]]) 16:49, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
:::Basculin is also listed twice, by the way. Vivillon, that also changes menu sprite depending on forms, is only included once (understandably because of how many form differences it has).
:::I mean I was mostly asking, so thanks for "justifying" it. Also, regarding whether it adds anything content-wise - except for the type changing forms, nothing really adds any content (Frillish, Hippos, Unfezant, Basculin, Vivillon), which is why I was puzzled. Didn't seem like there was any actual reason to include multiples. But I guess Sugimori arts are a good enough reason (I just couldn't figure it out). {{unsigned|KingisNitro}}

== Alolan ==

Someone needs to add the recently revealed Pokemon, which I assume would include Alolan Forms (as they all change type.) [[User:AmoongussForLife|AmoongussForLife]] ([[User talk:AmoongussForLife|talk]]) 17:32, 1 August 2016 (UTC)

:No, I think this page is better suited for the Pokémon with their natural Pokémon types to help prevent the page from getting too messy or confusing. This is why separate sub-pages are better suited to handling this such as the [[Mega Evolution]] page. -[[User:Tyler53841|Tyler53841]] ([[User talk:Tyler53841|talk]]) 00:37, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
::FWIW, the Alola Forms' types are no less natural than the forms we've always known. That said, we haven't yet decided whether we want the Alola Forms here or not. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 00:41, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
:::I would think that the Alolan Forms should be added, as the type changes, it appears the Pokémon don't switch between the two (an Ice/Fairy Ninetales would have Ice Vulpix), and multiple entries are added for Darmanitan, which is a similar case. I suppose the second point is mostly speculation at this point, though, but I don't think it would hurt the page overall. [[User:AmoongussForLife|AmoongussForLife]] ([[User talk:AmoongussForLife|talk]]) 01:06, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

== Wimpod's types ==

[[Wimpod]]'s types are Bug/Water, not Water/Bug. Someone should fix it. --[[User:RafaelGN|RafaelGN]] ([[User talk:RafaelGN|talk]]) 03:09, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
:Fixed. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 03:23, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

== Wishiwashi, Pyukumuku, and Morelull ==

This page still lists the japanese names even though the English names are revealed and confirmed and the pages for them use the English names. [[User:AztecCroc|AztecCroc]] ([[User talk:AztecCroc|talk]]) 14:16, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

== Rugarugan ==

Someone needs to add Rugarugan after Rockruff; it's been over a day. [[User:AmoongussForLife|AmoongussForLife]] ([[User talk:AmoongussForLife|talk]]) 17:19, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
:I will try see if I can. [[User:Awesomevenustoise101|Awesomevenustoise101]] ([[User talk:Awesomevenustoise101|talk]]) 17:22, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
::never mind I didn't know that the page is protected. [[User:Awesomevenustoise101|Awesomevenustoise101]] ([[User talk:Awesomevenustoise101|talk]]) 17:23, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
:::It hasn't been added because there is no page for it and it hasn't been officially revealed, it was leaked. The admins know what they are doing and it will be added when it gets added. --[[User:HoennMaster|Hoenn]][[User talk:HoennMaster|Master]] 17:25, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

== why is this page protected? ==

why is this page protected? I want to add Rugarugan after Rockruff but I can't. [[User:Awesomevenustoise101|Awesomevenustoise101]] ([[User talk:Awesomevenustoise101|talk]]) 17:25, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
:Most of the time it doesn't need to be changed, and when it does, we don't want people jumping the gun on rumors and stuff. Things like this we (as staff) update it when it's appropriate to do so. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 17:48, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

== Rowlet National dex number and menu sprites ==

On the [http://www.pokemon-sunmoon.com/en-us/pokemon-bank/ Pokémon Bank page] on the official site, menu sprites for several Gen VII Pokémon have been shown, and Rowlet have been confirmed as #722. Here's direct links for the relevant images: [http://www.pokemon-sunmoon.com/media/uploads/sept_20_assets/screenshots/top/sept20_p12_01_en.png Top screen], [http://www.pokemon-sunmoon.com/media/uploads/sept_20_assets/screenshots/bottom/sept20_p12_01_en.png Bottom screen] - [[User:RHeegaard|RHeegaard]] ([[User talk:RHeegaard|talk]]) 00:21, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

:I'm assuming that the reason only Rowlet, Litten, Popplio, and Pikipek were uploaded is because they are the only ones with numbers (I am curious where you got official evidence of Litten, Popplio, and Pikipek's numbers though?), but would it not be possible to upload the others as "DrampaMS.png" and such so that they can be listed? It would make the table easier to read, I think. It's also what we do with artwork (whereas Pikachu's artwork is [[a:File:025Pikachu.png|File:025Pikachu.png]], Drampa's is [[a:File:Drampa.png|File:Drampa.png]]), so it's not like it goes against Bulbapedia's other efforts. [[User:Nutter Butter|Nutter Butter]] ([[User talk:Nutter Butter|talk]]) 03:05, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
::In large part, most places where menu sprites are used simply ''cannot'' accomodate filenames like DrampaMS (this page being an excellent example of such a place). The few places it might be usable aren't really worth it. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 03:20, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

== Additions ==

Can we add: [[Steenee (Pokémon)]], [[Tsareena (Pokémon)]], [[Hakamo-o (Pokémon)]], [[Ribombee (Pokémon)]]? [[User:Kidburla|Kidburla]] ([[User talk:Kidburla|talk]]) 14:01, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
:They've already been added. --[[User:Carmenstar97|Carmen★]] ''[[User talk:Carmenstar97|(Talk |]] [[Special:Contributions/Carmenstar97|contribs)]]'' 14:02, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
::Thanks. Seems they were added while I was typing the post. [[User:Kidburla|Kidburla]] ([[User talk:Kidburla|talk]]) 16:44, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
:::For future reference, if you just wait, someone will almost assuredly get to it soon enough. (I mean, if someone asked this every time there was a new reveal, this page would probably quickly end up bloated.) If it's 24 hours later, ''then'' it's late. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 16:50, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

== Oricorio ==

How come {{p|Castform}} has all of its forms on the list but {{p|Oricorio}} doesn't? --[[User:PKMNAdventurer|PKMNAdventurer]] ([[User talk:PKMNAdventurer|talk]]) 00:06, 6 January 2017 (UTC)
:Personally, it could be due to the criteria, but I cannot tell. So, here is a hopefully complete list of what Pokémon with multiple menu sprites appear and which do not.
:From the group that does appear: Unfezant (Gender difference), Frillish (Gender), Jellicent (Gender), Castform (Ability), Deoxys (Form), Burmy (Form), Wormadam (Form), Shellos (Form), Gastrodon (Form), Rotom (Form), Giratina (Item), Shaymin (Item), Basculin (Form), Darmanitan (Ability), Meloetta (Move), Hoopa (Item), All Alolan Pokémon (Form)
:From the group that does ''not'' appear: Pyroar (Gender difference), Meowstic (Gender), Ash-Greninja (Ability), Zygarde (Forme), Kyurem (Item), Cosplay Pikachu (Form), Pikachu (Unknown), Spiky-eared Pichu (Form), Unown (Form), Cherrim (Ability), Arceus (Item), Flabébé (Form), Floette (Form), Florges (Form), Deerling (Form), Sawsbuck (Form), Tornadus (Item), Thundurus (Item), Landorus (Item), Keldeo (Move), Vivillon (Form), Furfrou (Form), Aegislash (Ability), Oricorio (Item), Silvally (Item), Minior (Ability), All Mega/Primal Evolution Pokémon (Item/Move),
:...So, basically, I would guess that this might have been potentially overlooked. Who is to say? Granted, I do understand that Unown, Vivillon, Arceus, and Silvally likely are excluded for a good reason. --[[User:Super goku|Super goku]] ([[User talk:Super goku|talk]]) 07:19, 6 January 2017 (UTC)
::IMO, there definitely should be Oricorio with all its form, I thought that only forms with different type combination are added, but if there are also some gender differences... I even think there should be Mega Evolutions, if we will be adding forms. [[User:Asmod96|Asmod96]] ([[User talk:Asmod96|talk]]) 08:13, 16 February 2017 (UTC)
:::Most of these are probably missing because, as was mentioned in my "Hippowdon" question, they don't have official Sugimori art. Frillish has official art for both genders, while Hippowdon doesn't, hence it doesn't get two pictures. P weird reasonong, but I guess it works; Oricorio DOES have official art (in fact, most mentioned Pokemon do) and the forms change typing (good enough reason if you ask me), so I think someone should add them. Also, why can't we merge the forms into a single line (similarly to [[Pokémon with unique type combinations]] page)? {{unsigned|KingisNitro}}
::::The most important thing to remember, I think, is that this is a list of Pokémon species. It's not a list of minisprites. It's not even a list of Pokémon's types—those are included supplementarily. And it's ''certainly'' not a list of Ken Sugimori art.
::::On that note, I think the inclusion and exclusion of form differences should follow a less horrendously arbitrary standard. Either A) all forms with unique minisprites or types are included, or B) only one form per species is included, determined by a consistent criterion. If we go with A, I absolutely agree with KingisNitro that they should be merged into a single row, since it makes no sense to list the same species multiple times in a list of species. If we go B, I propose that the criterion be "whichever form is leftmost in Pokémon Bank's National Pokédex", since this is consistently a form that can be considered the most basic or "default".
::::So the question is, A or B? Should we put it up to a vote? [[User:Randomwaffle23|Randomwaffle23]] ([[User talk:Randomwaffle23|talk]]) 02:27, 4 September 2017 (UTC)
:::::I am going to mention that this technically is over six month old, but I will say that if anyone wants to put this up for a vote or needs to make a new section to discuss this can go ahead. Though, I do want to note that we now have issues with Pokémon like Togekiss who have two menu sprites just for which side they are facing. --[[User:Super goku|Super goku]] ([[User talk:Super goku|talk]]) 07:05, 14 September 2017 (UTC)
:This is still not "fixed". If castform's forms count then I really do think many of the others should be included as well. Maybe not all Unown or Vivillon forms since they're purely cosmetic. I do think forms that change type or stats should be included (like Necrozma or Zygarde forms...) -[[User:Jor1ss|Jor1ss]] ([[User talk:Jor1ss|talk]]) 17:04, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
::So, personally, I'm sorry that this keeps getting forgotten. On the other hand, even now, I can't muster enough of myself to "care" about it to check everything and do it up right... If someone wants to create a user page, we can look at it and see what's different and decide how much should be added. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 22:44, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
:::I'd love to help with adding them but maybe I can't because my account is only 1 day old? I'm also not sure what having a userpage would do for adding to the list? Isn't a userpage just a page for each user? I'm very new here so I don't really know what to do sorry. -[[User:Jor1ss|Jor1ss]] ([[User talk:Jor1ss|talk]]) 06:48, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

==Alola==

At the very top of the page, it still doesn't list Alola with the rest of the regions. [[User:AmoongussForLife|AmoongussForLife]] ([[User talk:AmoongussForLife|talk]]) 10:53, 17 January 2017 (UTC)

== Alolan Pokedex number of new Pokemon ==

The ADex numbers of Poipole, Naganadel, Stakataka, Blacephalon, and Zeraora should be changed to 261, 262, 392, 393, and 403 respectively. [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 18:13, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
:I'm not sure if this kind of a "noisy post" or "bump" is allowed, but I need to somehow get someone to pay attention to this. [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 02:00, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

== Gliscor sprite missing ==

the Gliscor Sprite is missing, can't edit to put it in [[User:Yamitora1|Yamitora1]] ([[User talk:Yamitora1|talk]]) 17:57, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

That's just an error on your end. [[User:AztecCroc|AztecCroc]] ([[User talk:AztecCroc|talk]]) 22:04, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

== Spin-off Pokedexes? ==

Sort of an off-topic but idk where else to ask; do we have Pokedexes for side/spin-off games (Rumble, Mystery Dungeon, Pinball, Ranger, Trozei/Shuffle...)? I think it would be neat to list the Pokemon with places to find them/other important information. If so - where, if not - why? If I made them on my page, could they be added to Bulba? (Where else can I ask this question?) ~[[User:KingisNitro|'''KingisNitro''']] ([[User talk:KingisNitro|talk]]) 01:04, 12 November 2018 (UTC)
:As seen in the List of Pokémon template below the articles, yes, we do have Pokédex listing of other/spin-off games. Unless there's another listing you want to suggest.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 03:32, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

== Meltan and Melmetal should not be under "generation VII" category ==

Officially, meltan and melmetal are under the region "unknown" and as such they should both be under that new category. furthermore, their pokedex numbers are 808 and 809 officially too.
{{unsigned|Supermassimo}}
:Well, I see what you mean but this list is sorted by generation. And those Pokémon were indeed introduced in the generation it says they were. --[[User:Raltseye|Raltseye]] [[User talk:Raltseye|prata med mej]] 14:08, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

::By that logic though, shouldn't Marill and Togepi be listed as generation 1 pokemon, Munchlax as a generation 3 pokemon and Magearna as a generation 6 pokemon? In fact, every single generation other than the first had a pokemon revealed in some medium before the release of the main games and this is especially true of mythicals. (Victini is in a similar situation to Meltan being listed just after the gen 4 mythicals and before the gen 5 starters even though it is considered gen 5 itself)

::In fact, the only difference is that all these other pokemon were typically revealed in movies or the anime whereas Meltan/Melmetal are playable in Pokemon Go/Let's Go. That said, these are still just spinoff games (which actually don't even have any other gen 7 pokemon in them other than alolan forms) and neither Meltan nor Melmetal are available in any mainline gen 7 games. Finally, Pokemon Go goes as far as to classify Meltan's region as "Unknown" whereas it could have easily been listed as Alola if it was intended to be a gen 7 pokemon. (And Magearna has nothing to do with either Kalos nor Alola but is still classified as "Gen 7" in the Sun/Moon pokedex.

::Sorry, for the long rant but my point is that strictly speaking the situation for Meltan/Melmetal is "Unknown" and ideally this should be reflected on the page to avoid speculating. However, if people insist on assigning a region/generation to it, I think it's far more likely to be "Galar"/"Gen 8" and not "Alola". Just my 2 cents. [[User:MCX|MCX]] ([[User talk:MCX|talk]]) 21:52, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
:::I would agree with your logic if not for your assumption that LGPE are not mainline games. They are core Pokémon games, which has been reiterated multiple times by Masuda and the others at GF. Since they’re catchable and playable in a mainline Gen VII game, they’re Gen VII Pokémon. That’s what separates them from cases like Bonsly, which I think would have been a much better example than Marill or Munchlax. --[[User:Celadonkey|celadonk]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 12:47, 18 March 2019 (UTC)
::::I'm still not convinced that it's relevant nor that it's the case that LGPE are core titles. I'm not sure which interview you are referring to when saying that Masuda has stated that LGPE are core games but afaik Sword and Shield were first announced as the unnamed 2019 mainline Switch games in e3 2017. Then LGPE were announced at a later time and people were giving GF crap until they clarified that LGPE weren't the same as the previously announced 2019 titles. Correct me if I remember any of this incorrectly but if not, this would indicate that LGPE are something less than core games. If LGPE are core games that's the equivalent of GF announcing Sun/Moon after XY and then saying "oh btw, before SM we are gonna release gen 3 remakes, they aren't the same games as SM, we just thought we should announce gen 7 first." Yeah, LGPE are much closer gameplay-wise to the core games than, say, mystery dungeon or pokemon pinball but they are also not quite there.

::::Moreover, even if Masuda has said in an interview "LGPE are core titles", I'm still not sure if that is relevant in classifying Meltan's gen. LGPE don't have Crobat or Electivire or any gen 2-7 pokemon but they have Megas and Alolan forms and Meltan. This is just a weird situation where they used Meltan as a promo thing - not at all an indication that it's gen 7. They've even dropped mainline mechanics like breeding and abilities... Meltan being there doesn't conclusively prove anything. I doubt we will get any official statement like "Btw Meltan belongs in X gen" but we are still probably going to get a conclusive answer when they colour code Meltan along with either the gen 7 or gen 8 pokemon in some future title's pokedex. I'm just saying that until then we should keep its status as "Unknown" because that's what it currently is. [[User:MCX|MCX]] ([[User talk:MCX|talk]]) 23:49, 26 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::You can check the interview section in the LGPE guidebook if you don't believe that he explicitly has said that they're core titles. "These games aren't spinoffs. These are core Pokémon titles" is the exact quote. Since Meltan and Melmetal appeared in Gen 7 core titles, they're Gen 7 Pokemon. Simple enough. If for whatever reason they change that, then we'll change that too. But we don't really have any reason to believe otherwise. --[[User:Celadonkey|celadonk]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 23:56, 26 March 2019 (UTC)

== Request to add Trivia section ==

I would like to see a Trivia section added to the bottom of the list, with the following single item:

* With the sole exception of {{p|Type: Null}}, all English Pokémon names in this list are also used for Italian and Spanish languages. The names for '''Type: Null''' in Italian and Spanish are, respectively, ''Tipo Zero'' and ''Código Cero''.

This is to avoid the need for any separate '''List of Italian Pokémon names''' and '''List of Spanish Pokémon names''' pages that would differ from this English page by ONLY ONE ROW. ''(Currently, those two page titles are redirects to the English list.)'' --[[User:SilSinn9801|''SilSinn'']] ([[TID]]s: '''768426[[Pokémon Sun|S]]''', '''123446[[Pokémon Ultra Moon|UM]]''') ([[User talk:SilSinn9801|talk]]) 10:01, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

==Gen 8 Starters==
Grookey, Scorbunny, and Sobble would be National Pokedex 810, 813, and 816. Can these numbers please be added? [[User:Kimichael4317|Kimichael4317]] ([[User talk:Kimichael4317|talk]]) 05:38, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
:We do not actually ''know'' that so no, they won't be added. --[[User:Raltseye|Raltseye]] [[User talk:Raltseye|prata med mej]] 05:43, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
::We have no guarantee as to whether there would be another Victini-like scenario where a Mythical Pokémon would be enumerated right before the starters (as happened in Unova, twice). Hence why we cannot safely assume 810, 813, 816 – it could end up being 811, 814, 817. ‑‑[[User:SilSinn9801|''SilSinn'']] ([[TID]]s: '''768426[[Pokémon Sun|S]]''', '''123446[[Pokémon Ultra Moon|UM]]''') [[User talk:SilSinn9801|💬]] 07:52, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

== Zekrom has an extra space next to his name. ==

That is all. {{unsigned|MrKarato}}
:Fixed. And don't forget to sign your comments.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 06:01, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

== Handling forms + smaller suggestions ==

As far as I can tell there's no pattern to how forms are handled on this page. Some Pokémon with alternate forms or major gender differences have their forms present, others do not. Frankly, since it’s a list of Pokémon species according to their number, no Pokémon with form differences should be even included in a different line. Either the alternate forms should be removed entirely, only including the “base” form, or the lines should be combined like on List of Pokémon with unique type combinations. Personally, I'd prefer to have no forms displayed-- it would make the page a whole lot cleaner and easier to use-- but I can see the purpose of displaying forms, so I think that something like this would be best:

{| class=roundy style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{firered color}}; background: #{{firered color}}"
! style="{{roundytl|5px}}; background: #{{leafgreen color light}}" | Kdex
! style="background: #{{leafgreen color light}}" | Ndex
! style="background: #{{leafgreen color light}}" | MS
! style="background: #{{leafgreen color light}}" | Pokémon
! style="{{roundytr|5px}}; background: #{{leafgreen color light}}" colspan="2" | Type</noinclude>
|- style="background:#FFF"
| rowspan="2" style="font-family:monospace" | <nowiki>#</nowiki>026
| rowspan="2" style="font-family:monospace" | <nowiki>#</nowiki>026
| {{MSP|026|Raichu}}
| rowspan="2" | {{p|Raichu}}
| colspan="2" style="text-align:center; background:#{{electric color}}" | [[Electric (type)|Electric]]
|- style="background:#FFF"
| {{MSP|026A|Raichu}}
| style="text-align:center; background:#{{electric color}}" | [[Electric (type)|Electric]]
| style="text-align:center; background:#{{psychic color}}" | [[Psychic (type)|Psychic]]
|}

Again, I think that not displaying forms would be the best way to go, but either way, the current system of handling forms is unsatisfactory, both in the inconsistency between which forms are shown and which are not, and in the actual formatting of the forms.

Additionally, I have two smaller suggestions. First, I believe that it would be better to display the National Pokédex number before the regional Pokédex number, rather than vice versa, as this is a page on the National Pokédex, and that should take priority. Second, at the end of each section, there is no roundy template on the bottom, as you can see above, which makes the bottom of each section square and not as aesthetically pleasing. --[[User:Celadonkey|celadonk]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 20:05, 29 March 2019 (UTC)

The problem with formes/forms is that there's many different kinds of forms. There's only visual forms (most male female differences/unown forms etc) and there's forms where the stats change (meowstic male/female for instance). There's forms where the typing changes (Wormadom/Necrozma's various forms). There's temporary forms that are only visible in battle (megas/greninja/cherubi). There's temporary forms that are changed by using an item or by depositing the pokemon or by whatever arbitrary reason (giratina/tornadus etc.). There's also regional forms, where a pokemon cannot change to the other form but is basically a different pokemon altogether (alolan and soon galarian forms). Maybe the list should just include all the base forms? And then there could be a seperate table listing all the additional forms for a pokemon?[[User:Jor1ss|Jor1ss]] ([[User talk:Jor1ss|talk]]) 12:40, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

== Information to readers ==

I want to modify the title section, but I have no permission. Could someone add the sentence “All English, Italian and Spanish Pokémon names are identical, but, depending on the language, they're pronounced differently.”? --[[User:TheICTLiker4|'''TheICT''']][[User talk:TheICTLiker4|'''Liker4''']] 18:19, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
:That's not relevant to the article at all.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 04:13, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
::Well, most european languages use the same names as the English version anyway, in fact only German and French are the the ones that consistently differ. Unless you count the languages that use a different alphabet, only Serbian, Lithuanian and some more perhaps are the only ones that does not use the standard English names instead transcribing it to their own orthography. So I see no really point in mentioned them all here. A simple line like <code>most other languages using the Latin alphabet also uses these names</code> would suffice in my opinion.
::I'm thinking maybe if it's okay with the staff around to make redirect for <code>List of Swedish/Icelandic/Spanish/Romanian/etc. Pokémon names</code> to this page.
::Otherwise, if you're interested, at least one Spanish and Italian name do actually differ from the English name, {{p|Type: Null}}. I've made list articles about which names I have found being used in other languages [[User:Raltseye/Template:Pokelist|here]].
::--[[User:Raltseye|Raltseye]] [[User talk:Raltseye|prata med mej]] 13:43, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

== Yamper and Impidimp ==

They're not on here for some reason? Can someone who can edit this page fix that?[[User:AztecCroc|AztecCroc]] ([[User talk:AztecCroc|talk]]) 13:33, 15 June 2019 (UTC)

== Aug 7 Trailer - New Pokémon ==

In the newest trailer, two new Pokémon (Obstagoon and Morpeko), as well as the Galarian forms of Weezing, Zigzagoon, and Linoone were revealed. I don't see them listed on this page yet, those Impidimp, which has still not been officially revealed is. [[User:CMP|CMP]] ([[User talk:CMP|talk]]) 18:46, 9 August 2019 (UTC)

== Missing ==

Currently, Galarian Meowth is missing from this list. [[User:MarioMiner|MarioMiner]] ([[User talk:MarioMiner|talk]]) 03:00, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

== Dex Shortcuts ==

Can we get the dex shortcuts removed or redirected correctly? They're just redirecting to the top of this page. [[User:Joe kik as|Joe kik as]] ([[User talk:Joe kik as|talk]]) 17:33, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
:That's the point of the shortcuts. They're just redirects of this article, and they're there for reference.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 04:32, 15 January 2020 (UTC)
::But why is it at the top of the page if it's just redirecting to the top. If anything it should redirect to different pages corresponding to those links. [[User:Joe kik as|Joe kik as]] ([[User talk:Joe kik as|talk]]) 16:32, 15 January 2020 (UTC)
:::I already said why, they're there for reference. To let users know which shortcut to type out in the search bar if they wanted to find this article easier (since typing out the entire title would be a hassle). The other dex listings also have shortcuts that lead to their respective articles.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 16:55, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

== Ndex as the first column ==

I think the Ndex number should probably be the first column. This is the main subject of this list.

The Ndex is currently the 2nd column, which seems like a secondary position. (even though in the case of the first 151 Pokémon, the numbers are the same) --[[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 10:14, 31 January 2020 (UTC)
:{{template|rdex}} is convenient. I don't think it's that big an issue to make another template just for this. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 03:23, 1 February 2020 (UTC)
::I'm with Daniel here. This is a list of Pokemon by National Pokedex number. Surely that should be the primary focus. --[[User:Celadonkey|celadonk]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 18:19, 1 February 2020 (UTC)
:::I could do the job of creating a new template and editing this page if this idea is accepted. It could be simply a new template based on {{template|rdex}} with reverse parameters. A possible name could be {{template|nrdex}} (since {{template|ndex}} is taken) .--[[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 00:50, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
::::The header is the only thing here that would need to be changed if this were to be done. --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 01:05, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
:::::Aside from that, we may also want to reverse the order of the numbers for each Pokémon in [[List of Pokémon by National Pokédex number]], to make the wikitext match the resulting page. I can do this if needed. --[[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 02:38, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

== Pokémon with different forms not present in the list ==

I don't understand the criteria for Pokémon with different forms, by the type of them:

Gender differences : We do not include the forms of Indeedee, Pyroar and Meowstic, But we allow Unfezant, Frillish and Jellycent?

Different permanent forms but with the same typing: Lycanrock and Toxtricity. But it allows other permanent forms, e.g. Shellos, Gastrodont and Basculin.

Different Forms and different types: Kyurem and Necruzma. But allows Castform, Rotom, Melloeta, Hoopa, Shaymin and Oricorio.

Different Battle forms but same types: Wishiwashi, Cherrim, Landorus, Thundurus, Tornadus, Kyurem, Keldeo, Greninja, Zygarde and Minior are not included. But Deoxis and Gyratina are on the list.

No applicable to the above criteria: Unown, Arceus, Deerling, Sawsbuck, Vivillon, The Flabébé Family and Furfrou. But we do have Burmy and Wormadam and Urshifu. (I understand that the Pokémon in this las criteria have a lot of forms, and that the reason of not their including is for space and order in the page)

Can some one please explain me the criteria for allowing the different forms selection?

--Neos 10:19, April 16 2020 (UTC)
:Yeah, it does seem rather arbitrary to me.

:I think I've mentioned this above but this page is a list of Pokemon by number first and foremost. Including forms at all, imo, muddles the numbering up, at least for me. --[[User:Celadonkey|celadonk]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 13:48, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

::I think we should take out the unnecessary forms --[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 00:36, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

== You forgot NDex# of Galarian Slowking ==

Force Fire: You added NDex numbers for Galarian forms of Slowbro & the Legendary Birds (even if no menu sprites exist for them yet), but you forgot Galarian Slowking:
<pre>{{rdex||???|Slowking|1|???}}</pre>
Given this page is protected, I cannot change the page myself; could you please provisionally change that line to:
<pre>{{rdex||199G|Slowking|1|???}}</pre>
‐⁠‑''[[User:SilSinn9801|SilSinn]]'' ([[TID]]s: '''768426[[Pokémon Sun|S]]''', '''123446[[Pokémon Ultra Moon|UM]]''') [[User talk:SilSinn9801|💬]] 17:01, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
:Fixed --[[User:Spriteit|Spriteit]] ([[User talk:Spriteit|talk]]) 01:21, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
::This page needs to be edited as Galarian Slowking's type was confirmed to be Poison/Psychic like Galarian Slowbro was. [[User:Kangaflora|Kangaflora]] ([[User talk:Kangaflora|talk]]) 19:01, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

== 891-893 ==

Pokemon Home's Pokedex , after this morning's patch, seems to confirm that Kubfu, Urshifu, and Zarude are numbers 891, 892, and 893 respectively. That is all. Sorry if this text is really big for some reason.{{unsigned|Zigzagoon97}}

== (Understandable) Style Inconsistencies ==

To be consistent with the style of the page before the Crown Tundra was released, only Calyrex's base form should be present, as neither Kyurem (which, admittedly, does not change type) nor Necrozma (which does change type, and thus should be treated exactly the same way as Calyrex) have their fusion forms present on this list. Alternatively, including Necrozma's forms, and possibly Kyurem's forms, would solve this issue. [[User:MarioMiner|MarioMiner]] ([[User talk:MarioMiner|talk]]) 22:58, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
:Another style inconsistency - in the Generation IV section of the page, Heatran, Regigigas, Cresselia, Phione, Darkrai, Shaymin, and Arceus, the Gen IV Pokémon without Sinnoh Pokédex numbers, have their portions of the "Sdex" column blank. However, Meltan, Melmetal, Kubfu, Urshifu, Zarude, Regieleki, Regidrago, Glastrier, Spectrier, and Calyrex, all Pokémon that do not appear in their respective generations' regional Pokédexes, have "#---" in their regional Pokédex (Adex for Meltan and Melmetal, Gdex for the rest) columns. [[User:MarioMiner|MarioMiner]] ([[User talk:MarioMiner|talk]]) 00:06, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

== Zygarde's Forms ==
Zygard seems to be the only Pokémon currently missing alternate forms.
[[User:RomajiMiltonAmulo|RomajiMiltonAmulo]] ([[User talk:RomajiMiltonAmulo|talk]]) 01:45, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

== Legends: Arceus Pokémon ==

Are the Pokémon and Regional Forms that were shown in the new [[Pokémon Legends: Arceus]] trailer going to be added now or when the game releases? -[[User:Ratboy Jr.|Ratboy Jr.]] ([[User talk:Ratboy Jr.|talk]]) 22:40, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

== Mega Aerodactyl needs to be added. ==

A couple Megas were forgotten to be added. Could you please scout through and add them? {{unsigned|Necrozma800}}
:They are left out for a reason, Mega Evolutions are not completely new species, they are a transformed state of the same base species.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 07:06, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

== Legends arceus pokemon ==

We need numbers for Basculegion, wyrdeer, Kleavor, we need these pokemon added Overqwil, Enamorus, Ursaluna, and Sneasler. Dex numbers (national) are : 899 is Wyrdeer 900 is Kleavor 901 is Ursaluna 902 is Basculegion 903 is Sneasler 904 is Overqwil, 905 is Enamorus, so yeah [[User:ItsRobloxHere|ItsRobloxHere]] ([[User talk:ItsRobloxHere|talk]]) 00:24, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

== H.Goodra's typing ==

it should be Steel/Dragon, not Dragon/Steel.
[[User:Anzasquiddles|Anzasquiddles]] ([[User talk:Anzasquiddles|talk]]) 05:56, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

== Hisuian Braviary's MSP, and Origin Formes for Dialga and Palkia ==

Well, the second point is more of a question. I see there's plenty of contention on the matter of form-inclusion, but Giratina's Origin Forme is on the list so I thought I'd mention it.
[[User:Pichugetic|Pichugetic]] ([[User talk:Pichugetic|talk]]) 01:06, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

: Oh, just noticed: also Hisuian Avalugg. [[User:Pichugetic|Pichugetic]] ([[User talk:Pichugetic|talk]]) 07:31, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

== Unfezant, Frillish and Jellycent: only one entry per Pokémon? ==

For the majority of Pokémon, only the male appearence is shown. However, it does not apply for Shellos, Gastrodon, Unfezant, Frillish and Jellycent. Shellos and Gastrodon are region-based in several (all?) games, so displaying both appearances is justified, but it does not apply for Unfezant, Frillish and Jellycent. So is there something special about those 3 Pokémon that grants 2 entries for each of them in the list? [[User:Y2110|Y2110]] ([[User talk:Y2110|talk]]) 11:42, 21 May 2022 (UTC)

EDIT: Oh, it has already been discussed on this page. My bad

== 3D Sprites ==
[[File:001MS8.png|thumb|right|68px|SwSh Bulbasaur (68px)]]
[[File:902MS.png|thumb|right|68px|PLA Basculegion (68px)]]
[[File:HOME001.png|thumb|right|60px|HOME Bulbasaur (60px)]]
[[File:HOME902.png|thumb|right|60px|HOME Basculegion (60px)]]

Why have the 2D sprites been changed to the 3D Pokemon Home ones? The 3D sprites mesh horribly with the tables and lists, take up too much space, and have too much color and detail making it hard to focus on anything but the sprites themselves. I can understand wanting to upgrade but sometimes less is more especially for someone who has sensitive eyes or ADHD. There could at least be an option to select whether you what to view 2D or 3D sprites.[[User:Strawhatroger|Strawhatroger]] ([[User talk:Strawhatroger|talk]]) 16:57, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
:It's a necessity. We already had too much inconsistency between sprites from SwSh, LGPE, PLA and older ones, soon we'll get another ones for SV which would make it even worse. Fortunately HOME sprite are very consistent and exist for alternate forms. They don't take more space because previously we already had big 68px squares.--'''[[User:Team Rocket Grunt|Rocket]] [[User talk:Team Rocket Grunt|Grunt]]''' 17:34, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

The HOME sprites pop out way too much and are too bright hurting my eyes making it very difficult to do thing like look at lists without straining my eyes.[[User:Strawhatroger|Strawhatroger]] ([[User talk:Strawhatroger|talk]]) 17:55, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

::I've added some Bulbasaur and Basculegion image examples at the top of this discussion now.
::As TRG was saying, the list with 2D sprites was using inconsistent styles (including 2D sprites from SwSh like that Bulbasaur, and 3D face portraits from PLA like that Basculegion). We may have 2D sprites for most of the currently available Pokémon, but not all of them.
::Since you mentioned the size, let me point out that those 2D sprites typically were 68px images with white space around the Pokémon (a lot of white space in my opinion). I've changed them to those 3D images with 60px size, so they are occupying less space than before.
::For instance, it seems there are at least 1,000 lines on these tables, so the page should be approximately 8,000 pixels shorter than before with the current 3D sprites.
::Although to be fair, the image size can be changed in the template so it could become smaller or larger if needed. If anyone thinks that the 2D sprites with a lot of whitespace around looked good, it's also possible to add whitespace around the 3D images (without needing to edit the images). --[[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 18:43, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

:::Did someone reverted the 3D sprites? now they are back to the 2D ones.
:::I really support the idea of using the HOME menu sprites for this page and for what I have seen in the latest SV trailers the classic Menu minisprites are now gone. So by using as the source of sprites HOME we will be sure that's there will be a unify menu art style. --[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 21:57, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

==Urshifu and Female Pokémon==

Since the two forms of Urshifu shared a menusprite, the Home art for Rapid Strike style Urshifu will have to be added manually globally. I don't think there is another Pokémon with this issue. Female Pokémon such as Unfezant, Jellicent, etc. will also have to be added manually. And since they are included, the female forms of Meowstic, Indeedee, Basculegion and Pyroar should have their own entries as well. Or none of them should. Just make it consistent. Necrozma is also missing its forms, even though they change type. '''[[User:Oneofthosedf|Oneofthosedf]] [[User talk:Oneofthosedf|(talk)]] [[Special:Contributions/Oneofthosedf|(contribs)]]''' 18:00, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
:I'm wondering if we should change female forms manually or the HOME images could be renamed. I'm fine with both, but I'd like to know what to do.--'''[[User:Team Rocket Grunt|Rocket]] [[User talk:Team Rocket Grunt|Grunt]]''' 19:02, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

::Yeah, I'm adding the Urshifu sprite to move pages, but I'll wait with Indeedee and Meowstic, as a simple redirect would solve those issues as opposed to Urshifu. '''[[User:Oneofthosedf|Oneofthosedf]] [[User talk:Oneofthosedf|(talk)]] [[Special:Contributions/Oneofthosedf|(contribs)]]''' 19:46, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

== Forms of Pokémon that should be added into this list ==

I know that I spoke about this more that two years ago, but there are a lot of inconsistencies in the list regarding which Pokémon forms get to be in this list and which don't, I get that Gigantamax and Mega's aren't allowed in this list, but there are Pokémon that have very different forms ranging from Gender, alternative and even different learnset's, and I think that they should be added into the list as well because there are pokemon that share the exact situation has the ones that I'm going to propose that are already on the list.

Candidates for inclusion on the list based in multiple criteria:

By gender extreme differences:

Indeedee Female

Pyroar Female

Meowstic Female

Basculegion Female

(Pokémon subject to this criteria that are already present on the list with Male and Female forms are: Unfezant, Frillish and Jellycent)

Pokemon with special forms that can't be changed:

Lycanrock Midnight form

Lycanrock Dusk form

Toxtricity Low Key form

Sandy Cloak Wormadam

Trash Cloak Wormadam

(Pokémon subject to this criteria that have different forms already present on the list are: Shellos, Gastrodont, Basculin and Urshifu)

Diferent Fusions with different Types:

White Kyurem

Black Kyurem

Dusk Mane Necrozma

Dawn Wings Necrozma

Ultra Necrozma

Pokemon with the capability of change between forms upon different scenarios:

Wishiwashi School form

Cherrim Sunshine form

Landorus Therian form

Thundurus Therian form

Tornadus Therian form

Enamorus Therian form

Keldeo Resolute form

Zygarde 10% form

Zygarde 100% form

(Pokémon subject to this criteria that have different forms already present on the list are: Castform, Rotom, Melloeta, Hoopa, Shaymin, Oricorio, Deoxis, Dialga, Palkia and Gyratina)

Please consider adding the proposed forms listed above, or consider delisting the Pokémon forms that are already present in parentheses at the end of each category, since if the Pokémons requested to be added are not added personally I don't see a justified reason to keep the extra forms that are present at the moment.

--[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 18:23, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

Also this should be more easy now that we have the Pokémon HOME models for this list --[[User:Neos|Neos]] ([[User talk:Neos|talk]]) 18:28, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

==Eternal Floette==

Not included on this page (should be) and all it had was the menusprite. It will need a redirect. Probably [[File:AZ's Floette.png|90px]] will do. '''[[User:Oneofthosedf|Oneofthosedf]] [[User talk:Oneofthosedf|(talk)]] [[Special:Contributions/Oneofthosedf|(contribs)]]''' 19:46, 16 August 2022 (UTC)