Bulbapedia - User contributions [en]

Talk:Silvally (Pokémon)

2016-12-05T23:08:08Z

N-Denizen: /* English Name Origin */

== Griffin ==

It's cat-like ears, beak-like snout, eagle-shaped ax on it's forehead, bird-like forelegs, cat-like hind legs, and the shape of it's neck and it's feather-like appendages make it resemble a griffin.[[User:Robbie|Robbie]] ([[User talk:Robbie|talk]]) 13:29, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

== Again, Russian name... ==

Russian name for Silvally is Силвалли. Can't wait to see the name origin, what a sil(val)ly name for such an intimidating Pokémon! --[[User:Celadonkey|--Celadonkey]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 13:37, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
:The transcription should be as follows <code>''Silvalli''|rumeaning=Transcription of English name</code>. Sadly it's just nohting more as the written English name. :( --[[User:Raltseye|Raltseye]] [[User talk:Raltseye|prata med mej]] 14:14, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
::Thanks m8! Since I don't want to mess anything up (I'm no expert on foreign languages or alphabets, I just like them) I didn't put that there. --[[User:Celadonkey|--Celadonkey]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 14:19, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
:::No worries! There's quite few of the Russian names that isn't a transcription of their English name I'm afraid. Only like {{p|Kangaskhan}}, {{p|Vanilluxe}}, and {{p|Type: Null}} when I think of it actualy. --[[User:Raltseye|Raltseye]] [[User talk:Raltseye|prata med mej]] 15:43, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
::::And Vanilluxe and Kangaskhan are still very close. That's kind of sad, that Russian doesn't get its own Pokémon names. But it's still better than if it were not even transcribed. --[[User:Celadonkey|--Celadonkey]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 18:30, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

== Update ==
Well, the English name origin should be updated... [[User:Lokki|Lokki]] ([[User talk:Lokki|talk]]) 18:11, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

== Biology ==

I saw nobody started on it yet, so I thought I'd put this here. It's still rather rough, so feel free to edit it as needed.

Silvally is a tall, quadruped with traits from a variety of animals. Its formerly gray fur is now a brilliant white, and the silver spike at the tip of its mohawk is now longer and a darker grey. The blade is now split further into two sections, with three additional white blades protruding from the back. Silvally's upper jaw is metallic, with a 'rivet' on each side and a sharp, triangular hook angling downwards near the end, resembling that of a bird. There are three red lines surrounding its black, triangular nose and a metallic 'strip' running along the middle of its snout, tapering off into a point near its ears. Silvally's ears are the same white color as its fur on the outside, being black and red on the inside. Two triangles of the same red color extend from the ears and point downwards. Silvally's limbs and torso remain mainly unchanged, and the mane of fur cascading down Silvally's neck now fully covers its chest. {{unsigned|Spirios}}

== Legendary status ==

[https://twitter.com/SciresM/status/799322666079551488 In the game's coding], Type: Null and Silvally are classified as "sub-legendaries" (legendaries that are allowed in battle facilities), and their Pokedex page has the same green background that legendaries have. So should we call them Legendary Pokemon or not? --[[User:Master Lucario|Master Lucario]] ([[User talk:Master Lucario|talk]]) 04:46, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

:This is a subject very similar to the discussion going on about the Ultra Beasts and the Tapus, which are also allowed in restricted gameplay. Silvally is a man-made Pokemon, and while Mewtwo shows man-made Pokemon aren't exempt from being legendary, there are multiple Silvally, similar to Porygon. Silvally is also an evolved form, but as Solgaleo and Lunala have shown, evolution among legendaries is possible. These points aren't brought up to sway one way or the other; I'm just pointing out that it is extremely difficult to tell for now, and so more information is needed. It shouldn't be added into the article until a consensus is reached. Currently, the plan is to leave it undecided until Nintendo or Game Freak give more information. (see [[Talk:Legendary_Pokémon]]) [[User:TechSkylander1518|TechSkylander1518]] ([[User talk:TechSkylander1518|talk]]) 05:32, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

Indeed Silvally along with the Tapus and Ultra Beats are very special and unique Pokemon.--[[User:Jacob9594|Jacob Kogan]] ([[User talk:Jacob9594|talk]]) 16:03, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

== English Name Origin ==

Seeing as how Silvally is known as the Synthetic Pokemon and has very prominent high-tech traits, I believe that it is extremely plausible that this Pokemon's name may also be a reference to the Silicon Valley region.

My contribution is just as plausible as the previous edit by the user Taylor, which noted that "ally" was intentionally replaced with "buddy".

I feel that either both edits should stay, or they should both be removed. Thoughts? [[User:ImNotGoodAtPasswords|ImNotGoodAtPasswords]] ([[User talk:ImNotGoodAtPasswords|talk]]) 21:47, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
:That is not a compromise, that is being salty and trying to get your way. "Ally" is far more plausible and believable that "Silicon Valley".--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 04:54, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
::The user Taylor's edit points out that Silvally's name has the word "all" in it. To me, that seems like a side effect of using the word ally, rather than an intentional decision. I am just curious why his contribution can stay while mine is removed.

::I apologize for any annoyances I've caused. I just wanted to supply my own conviction on the topic. [[User:ImNotGoodAtPasswords|ImNotGoodAtPasswords]] ([[User talk:ImNotGoodAtPasswords|talk]]) 05:27, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
:::"Buddy" is an English word which implies a much closer relationship than "ally" – thus making more sense in context. However, they intentionally replaced it with another English word that doesn't really make the name any more Western-friendly than it already was. Why? Randomly? "Let's just change it because"? I don't think so. It seems to me that the only reason "ally", specifically, would be picked is because it contains "all", in contrast to the previous form's "null" and tying to the ability and lore. - [[User:Taylor|Taylor]] ([[User talk:Taylor|talk]]) 21:33, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
::::If they did a direct translation it would be "Silvuddy", I can understand why they altered it. As for "changing things just because" then localisation absolutely does this, they changed Isshu to Unova, Ranculus to Reuiniclus, Chandela to Chandelure, and so on. The name is not related to "Silicon Valley" or "All" because the phonetic sounds of "Ally" don't match the other two interpretations. [[User:N-Denizen|N-Denizen]] ([[User talk:N-Denizen|talk]]) 23:08, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

== Name origin ==

It should be mentioned in Trivia that Silvally is its name because it was named by Gladion himself (Moon pokedex entry), as opposed to it just being "known" like with other species. Would make it perhaps the only one of its kind to have that specification, except for perhaps Mewtwo. [[User:N-Denizen|N-Denizen]] ([[User talk:N-Denizen|talk]]) 21:10, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

Type: Null (Pokémon)

2016-12-05T21:19:44Z

N-Denizen: /* Trivia */

{{PokémonPrevNext/Head|type=Normal}}
{{PokémonPrevNext/Pokémon|type=Normal|prevnum=771|prev=Pyukumuku|nextnum=773|next=Silvally}}
|}
{{Pokémon Infobox
|name=Type: Null
|jname=タイプ：ヌル
|jtranslit=Taipu: Nuru
|tmname=Type: Null
|ndex=772
|type1=Normal
|category=Synthetic
|height-ftin=6'03"
|height-m=1.9
|weight-lbs=265.7
|weight-kg=120.5
|adex=203
|abilityn=1
|abilitylayout=1
|ability1=Battle Armor
|egggroupn=0
|egggroup1=Undiscovered
|eggcycles=120
|evtotal=2
|evhp=2
|expyield=107
|lv100exp=1,250,000
|gendercode=255
|color=Gray
|catchrate=3
|body=08
|pokefordex=type: null
|generation=
|friendship=0
}}
'''Type: Null''' ([[List of Japanese Pokémon names|Japanese]]: '''タイプ：ヌル''' ''Type: Null'') is a {{type|Normal}} Pokémon.

It [[Evolution|evolves]] into {{p|Silvally}} when [[level]]ed up with high [[friendship]].

==Biology==
Type Null is a quadruped, chimeric Pokémon with traits from a variety of animals. Its head is enclosed in a wooden contraption with green markings. The contraption has a large wooden jaw piece that wraps around the front with large, round hinges on the side. Each hinge is covered by a green X-shaped marking. Small gray eyes can be seen from within rectangular black holes on the front, and there are two pointed wooden ears on the top. Around the base is a collar with four protruding vanes that are tipped with a three-way spike. This collar has a thin green line between the vanes, and each vane has a green hexagon near the end. An axe-like blade with wooden band around the middle extends backward from the top of the helmet. The front tip of the blade has a small, silver spike that hooks downward.

A mane of gray fur hangs from below Type: Null's helmet and covers its shoulders and chest. Most of its torso and legs is covered in short black fur. The lower half of each front leg is insectoid and green with spikes along the back, while the rear legs have thick purple scales on the flanks, shins, and on the top of the foot. All four of its feet have three toes, but in the front two toes face forward and one backward. Additionally, the hind paws have a short, purple claw on the back of the ankle. Its fish-like tail consists of two dark blue spines with a light blue fin stretched between them. The top spine has a line of short, gray spikes.

Type: Null was created by the [[Aether Foundation]] to be an anti-[[Ultra Beast|UB]] Fighting life-form. Codenamed "Beast Killer", Type: Null was given cells taken from all known Pokémon [[type]]s with the intention of giving it the ability to {{a|RKS System|shift between types}} by holding a corresponding [[Memory]]. This ability led the Aether Foundation to give it the name '''Type: Full''' (Japanese: '''タイプ：フル''' ''Type: Full''). Three known models of Type: Full were created, but all three rejected the RKS System and went berserk. After being subdued, the three Type: Full were given limiter helmets to lessen the effects of the RKS System's rejection and were put into permanent cryogenic stasis. Afterward, they were deemed failures and their name changed to Type: Null.



==Game data==
===Pokédex entries===
{{Dex/Header|type=Normal}}
{{Dex/NA|gen=VII}}
{{Dex/Gen|gen=VII}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=Sun|entry=The heavy control mask it wears suppresses its intrinsic capabilities. This Pokémon has some hidden special power.}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=Moon|entry=Due to the danger that this synthetic Pokémon may go on a rampage, it wears a control mask to restrain its power.}}
|}
|}
{{Dex/Footer}}

===Game locations===
{{Availability/Header|type=Normal}}
{{Availability/NA|gen=VII}}
{{Availability/Gen|gen=VII}}
{{Availability/Entry2|v=Sun|v2=Moon|area=[[List of in-game event Pokémon in Generation VII|Received]] from [[Gladion]] at [[Aether Paradise]] after becoming {{pkmn|Champion}}}}
|}
|}
{{Availability/Footer}}

====In side games====

===Held items===
===Stats===
====Base stats====
{{Stats
|type=Normal
|HP=95
|Attack=95
|Defense=95
|SpAtk=95
|SpDef=95
|Speed=59}}

===Type effectiveness===
{{TypeEffectiveness
|type1=Normal
|Normal=100
|Fighting=200
|Flying=100
|Poison=100
|Ground=100
|Rock=100
|Bug=100
|Ghost=0
|Steel=100
|Fire=100
|Water=100
|Grass=100
|Electric=100
|Psychic=100
|Ice=100
|Dragon=100
|Dark=100
|Fairy=100
|notes=yes
|normal=yes
|newghost=1}}

===Learnset===
====By [[Level|leveling up]]====
{{learnlist/levelh/7|Type: Null|Normal|Normal|7}}
{{learnlist/level7|1|Tackle|Normal|Physical|40|100|35||'''}}
{{learnlist/level7|5|Rage|Normal|Physical|20|100|20||'''}}
{{learnlist/level7|10|Pursuit|Dark|Physical|40|100|20}}
{{learnlist/level7|15|Imprison|Psychic|Status|—|—|10}}
{{learnlist/level7|20|Aerial Ace|Flying|Physical|60|—|20}}
{{learnlist/level7|25|Crush Claw|Normal|Physical|75|95|10||'''}}
{{learnlist/level7|30|Scary Face|Normal|Status|—|100|10}}
{{learnlist/level7|35|X-Scissor|Bug|Physical|80|100|15}}
{{learnlist/level7|40|Take Down|Normal|Physical|90|85|20||'''}}
{{learnlist/level7|45|Metal Sound|Steel|Status|—|85|40}}
{{learnlist/level7|50|Iron Head|Steel|Physical|80|100|15}}
{{learnlist/level7|55|Double Hit|Normal|Physical|35|90|10||'''}}
{{learnlist/level7|60|Air Slash|Flying|Special|75|95|15}}
{{learnlist/level7|65|Punishment|Dark|Physical|—|100|5}}
{{learnlist/level7|70|Razor Wind|Normal|Special|80|100|10||'''}}
{{learnlist/level7|75|Tri Attack|Normal|Special|80|100|10||'''}}
{{learnlist/level7|80|Double-Edge|Normal|Physical|120|100|15||'''}}
{{learnlist/level7|85|Heal Block|Psychic|Status|—|100|15}}
{{learnlist/levelf/7|Type: Null|Normal|Normal|7}}

====By [[TM]]/[[HM]]====
{{learnlist/tmh/7|Type: Null|Normal|Normal|7}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM01|Work Up|Normal|Status|—|—|30}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM02|Dragon Claw|Dragon|Physical|80|100|15}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM05|Roar|Normal|Status|—|—|20}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM06|Toxic|Poison|Status|—|90|10}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM07|Hail|Ice|Status|—|—|10}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM10|Hidden Power|Normal|Special|60|100|15}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM11|Sunny Day|Fire|Status|—|—|5}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM17|Protect|Normal|Status|—|—|10}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM18|Rain Dance|Water|Status|—|—|5}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM21|Frustration|Normal|Physical|—|100|20||'''}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM27|Return|Normal|Physical|—|100|20||'''}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM32|Double Team|Normal|Status|—|—|15}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM37|Sandstorm|Rock|Status|—|—|10}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM40|Aerial Ace|Flying|Physical|60|—|20}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM42|Facade|Normal|Physical|70|100|20||'''}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM43|Flame Charge|Fire|Physical|50|100|20}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM44|Rest|Psychic|Status|—|—|10}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM48|Round|Normal|Special|60|100|15||'''}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM65|Shadow Claw|Ghost|Physical|70|100|15}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM66|Payback|Dark|Physical|50|100|10}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM68|Giga Impact|Normal|Physical|150|90|5||'''}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM73|Thunder Wave|Electric|Status|—|90|20}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM75|Swords Dance|Normal|Status|—|—|20}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM80|Rock Slide|Rock|Physical|75|90|10}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM81|X-Scissor|Bug|Physical|80|100|15}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM87|Swagger|Normal|Status|—|85|15}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM88|Sleep Talk|Normal|Status|—|—|10}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM89|U-turn|Bug|Physical|70|100|20}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM90|Substitute|Normal|Status|—|—|10}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM100|Confide|Normal|Status|—|—|20}}
{{learnlist/tmf/7|Type: Null|Normal|Normal|7}}

====By {{pkmn|breeding}}====
{{Learnlist/breedh/7|Type: Null|Normal|Normal|7}}
{{Learnlist/breed7null}}
{{Learnlist/breedf/7|Type: Null|Normal|Normal|7}}

====By [[Move Tutor|tutoring]]====
{{learnlist/tutorh/7|Type: Null|Normal|Normal|7}}
{{learnlist/tutor7null}}
{{learnlist/tutorf/7|Type: Null|Normal|Normal|7}}


===Evolution===
{{Evobox-2
|type1=Normal
|pictype=art
|no1=772
|name1=Type: Null
|type1-1=Normal
|evo1={{bag|Soothe Bell}} {{color2|000|Friendship}}
|no2=773
|name2=Silvally
|type1-2=Normal}}


==Trivia==
* Type: Null is the only Pokémon whose Italian and Spanish names differ from its English name.
* Type: Null has the highest base stat total of all unevolved Pokémon.

===Origin===
Type: Null appears to be based on a {{wp|Chimera (mythology)|chimera}}. It is heavily suggested that it was created to possess the strengths of [[Arceus]], but as a result is a crude combination of different features.

====Name origin====
Type: Null was originally called Type: Full by its creators, but was renamed Type: Null after being deemed a failure.

Type: Full is literally ''type'' and ''full'' (everything), describing its intended ability to become any type.

Type: Null is literally ''[[type]]'' and ''null'' (nothing), a disparaging name given when it was deemed a failure.

==In other languages==
{{Other languages|type=Normal|type2=Normal
|ja=タイプ：ヌル ''Type: Null''|jameaning=From ''type'' and ''null''
|fr=Type:0|frmeaning=From ''type'' and {{tt|''0''|zero}}
|es=Código Cero|esmeaning=From {{tt|''código''|code}} and {{tt|''cero''|zero}}
|de=Typ:Null|demeaning=From {{tt|''Typ''|type}} and {{tt|''Null''|zero}}
|it=Tipo Zero|itmeaning=From {{tt|''tipo''|type}} and ''zero''
|ko=타입:널 ''Type: Null''|komeaning=Transliteration of Japanese name
|zh_cmn=屬性：空 / 属性：空 ''Shǔxìng: Kōng''|zh_cmnmeaning=From {{tt|屬性 / 属性 ''shǔxìng''|type}} and {{tt|空 ''kōng''|empty}}
|zh_yue=屬性：空 ''Suhksing: Hūng''|zh_yuemeaning=From {{tt|屬性 ''suhksing''|type}} and {{tt|空 ''hūng''|empty}}
|ru=Тип: Ноль ''Tip: Nol'''|rumeaning=From {{tt|тип ''tip''|type}} and {{tt|ноль ''nol'''|zero}}}}
{{-}}

''Type: Full''
{{langtable|color={{normal color}}|bordercolor={{normal color dark}}
|zh_cmn=屬性：滿 / 属性：满 ''Shǔxìng: Mǎn''
|zh_yue=屬性：滿 ''Suhksing: Múhn''
|fr=Type:18
|de=Typ:Full
|it=Omnitipo
|ko=타입:풀 ''Type: Full''
|es=Código Omnia}}
{{-}}

==Related articles==

==External links==
{{PokémonPrevNext/Head|type=Normal}}
{{PokémonPrevNext/Pokémon|type=Normal|prevnum=771|prev=Pyukumuku|nextnum=773|next=Silvally}}
|}
{{Project Pokédex notice}}

[[Category:Generation VII Pokémon]]
[[Category:Artificial Pokémon]]
[[Category:Pokémon that evolve by friendship]]

[[de:Typ:Null]]
[[fr:Type:0]]
[[it:Tipo Zero]]
[[ja:タイプ:ヌル]]
[[zh:属性：空]]

Type: Null (Pokémon)

2016-12-05T21:19:02Z

N-Denizen:

{{PokémonPrevNext/Head|type=Normal}}
{{PokémonPrevNext/Pokémon|type=Normal|prevnum=771|prev=Pyukumuku|nextnum=773|next=Silvally}}
|}
{{Pokémon Infobox
|name=Type: Null
|jname=タイプ：ヌル
|jtranslit=Taipu: Nuru
|tmname=Type: Null
|ndex=772
|type1=Normal
|category=Synthetic
|height-ftin=6'03"
|height-m=1.9
|weight-lbs=265.7
|weight-kg=120.5
|adex=203
|abilityn=1
|abilitylayout=1
|ability1=Battle Armor
|egggroupn=0
|egggroup1=Undiscovered
|eggcycles=120
|evtotal=2
|evhp=2
|expyield=107
|lv100exp=1,250,000
|gendercode=255
|color=Gray
|catchrate=3
|body=08
|pokefordex=type: null
|generation=
|friendship=0
}}
'''Type: Null''' ([[List of Japanese Pokémon names|Japanese]]: '''タイプ：ヌル''' ''Type: Null'') is a {{type|Normal}} Pokémon.

It [[Evolution|evolves]] into {{p|Silvally}} when [[level]]ed up with high [[friendship]].

==Biology==
Type Null is a quadruped, chimeric Pokémon with traits from a variety of animals. Its head is enclosed in a wooden contraption with green markings. The contraption has a large wooden jaw piece that wraps around the front with large, round hinges on the side. Each hinge is covered by a green X-shaped marking. Small gray eyes can be seen from within rectangular black holes on the front, and there are two pointed wooden ears on the top. Around the base is a collar with four protruding vanes that are tipped with a three-way spike. This collar has a thin green line between the vanes, and each vane has a green hexagon near the end. An axe-like blade with wooden band around the middle extends backward from the top of the helmet. The front tip of the blade has a small, silver spike that hooks downward.

A mane of gray fur hangs from below Type: Null's helmet and covers its shoulders and chest. Most of its torso and legs is covered in short black fur. The lower half of each front leg is insectoid and green with spikes along the back, while the rear legs have thick purple scales on the flanks, shins, and on the top of the foot. All four of its feet have three toes, but in the front two toes face forward and one backward. Additionally, the hind paws have a short, purple claw on the back of the ankle. Its fish-like tail consists of two dark blue spines with a light blue fin stretched between them. The top spine has a line of short, gray spikes.

Type: Null was created by the [[Aether Foundation]] to be an anti-[[Ultra Beast|UB]] Fighting life-form. Codenamed "Beast Killer", Type: Null was given cells taken from all known Pokémon [[type]]s with the intention of giving it the ability to {{a|RKS System|shift between types}} by holding a corresponding [[Memory]]. This ability led the Aether Foundation to give it the name '''Type: Full''' (Japanese: '''タイプ：フル''' ''Type: Full''). Three known models of Type: Full were created, but all three rejected the RKS System and went berserk. After being subdued, the three Type: Full were given limiter helmets to lessen the effects of the RKS System's rejection and were put into permanent cryogenic stasis. Afterward, they were deemed failures and their name changed to Type: Null.



==Game data==
===Pokédex entries===
{{Dex/Header|type=Normal}}
{{Dex/NA|gen=VII}}
{{Dex/Gen|gen=VII}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=Sun|entry=The heavy control mask it wears suppresses its intrinsic capabilities. This Pokémon has some hidden special power.}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=Moon|entry=Due to the danger that this synthetic Pokémon may go on a rampage, it wears a control mask to restrain its power.}}
|}
|}
{{Dex/Footer}}

===Game locations===
{{Availability/Header|type=Normal}}
{{Availability/NA|gen=VII}}
{{Availability/Gen|gen=VII}}
{{Availability/Entry2|v=Sun|v2=Moon|area=[[List of in-game event Pokémon in Generation VII|Received]] from [[Gladion]] at [[Aether Paradise]] after becoming {{pkmn|Champion}}}}
|}
|}
{{Availability/Footer}}

====In side games====

===Held items===
===Stats===
====Base stats====
{{Stats
|type=Normal
|HP=95
|Attack=95
|Defense=95
|SpAtk=95
|SpDef=95
|Speed=59}}

===Type effectiveness===
{{TypeEffectiveness
|type1=Normal
|Normal=100
|Fighting=200
|Flying=100
|Poison=100
|Ground=100
|Rock=100
|Bug=100
|Ghost=0
|Steel=100
|Fire=100
|Water=100
|Grass=100
|Electric=100
|Psychic=100
|Ice=100
|Dragon=100
|Dark=100
|Fairy=100
|notes=yes
|normal=yes
|newghost=1}}

===Learnset===
====By [[Level|leveling up]]====
{{learnlist/levelh/7|Type: Null|Normal|Normal|7}}
{{learnlist/level7|1|Tackle|Normal|Physical|40|100|35||'''}}
{{learnlist/level7|5|Rage|Normal|Physical|20|100|20||'''}}
{{learnlist/level7|10|Pursuit|Dark|Physical|40|100|20}}
{{learnlist/level7|15|Imprison|Psychic|Status|—|—|10}}
{{learnlist/level7|20|Aerial Ace|Flying|Physical|60|—|20}}
{{learnlist/level7|25|Crush Claw|Normal|Physical|75|95|10||'''}}
{{learnlist/level7|30|Scary Face|Normal|Status|—|100|10}}
{{learnlist/level7|35|X-Scissor|Bug|Physical|80|100|15}}
{{learnlist/level7|40|Take Down|Normal|Physical|90|85|20||'''}}
{{learnlist/level7|45|Metal Sound|Steel|Status|—|85|40}}
{{learnlist/level7|50|Iron Head|Steel|Physical|80|100|15}}
{{learnlist/level7|55|Double Hit|Normal|Physical|35|90|10||'''}}
{{learnlist/level7|60|Air Slash|Flying|Special|75|95|15}}
{{learnlist/level7|65|Punishment|Dark|Physical|—|100|5}}
{{learnlist/level7|70|Razor Wind|Normal|Special|80|100|10||'''}}
{{learnlist/level7|75|Tri Attack|Normal|Special|80|100|10||'''}}
{{learnlist/level7|80|Double-Edge|Normal|Physical|120|100|15||'''}}
{{learnlist/level7|85|Heal Block|Psychic|Status|—|100|15}}
{{learnlist/levelf/7|Type: Null|Normal|Normal|7}}

====By [[TM]]/[[HM]]====
{{learnlist/tmh/7|Type: Null|Normal|Normal|7}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM01|Work Up|Normal|Status|—|—|30}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM02|Dragon Claw|Dragon|Physical|80|100|15}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM05|Roar|Normal|Status|—|—|20}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM06|Toxic|Poison|Status|—|90|10}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM07|Hail|Ice|Status|—|—|10}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM10|Hidden Power|Normal|Special|60|100|15}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM11|Sunny Day|Fire|Status|—|—|5}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM17|Protect|Normal|Status|—|—|10}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM18|Rain Dance|Water|Status|—|—|5}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM21|Frustration|Normal|Physical|—|100|20||'''}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM27|Return|Normal|Physical|—|100|20||'''}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM32|Double Team|Normal|Status|—|—|15}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM37|Sandstorm|Rock|Status|—|—|10}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM40|Aerial Ace|Flying|Physical|60|—|20}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM42|Facade|Normal|Physical|70|100|20||'''}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM43|Flame Charge|Fire|Physical|50|100|20}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM44|Rest|Psychic|Status|—|—|10}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM48|Round|Normal|Special|60|100|15||'''}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM65|Shadow Claw|Ghost|Physical|70|100|15}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM66|Payback|Dark|Physical|50|100|10}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM68|Giga Impact|Normal|Physical|150|90|5||'''}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM73|Thunder Wave|Electric|Status|—|90|20}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM75|Swords Dance|Normal|Status|—|—|20}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM80|Rock Slide|Rock|Physical|75|90|10}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM81|X-Scissor|Bug|Physical|80|100|15}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM87|Swagger|Normal|Status|—|85|15}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM88|Sleep Talk|Normal|Status|—|—|10}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM89|U-turn|Bug|Physical|70|100|20}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM90|Substitute|Normal|Status|—|—|10}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM100|Confide|Normal|Status|—|—|20}}
{{learnlist/tmf/7|Type: Null|Normal|Normal|7}}

====By {{pkmn|breeding}}====
{{Learnlist/breedh/7|Type: Null|Normal|Normal|7}}
{{Learnlist/breed7null}}
{{Learnlist/breedf/7|Type: Null|Normal|Normal|7}}

====By [[Move Tutor|tutoring]]====
{{learnlist/tutorh/7|Type: Null|Normal|Normal|7}}
{{learnlist/tutor7null}}
{{learnlist/tutorf/7|Type: Null|Normal|Normal|7}}


===Evolution===
{{Evobox-2
|type1=Normal
|pictype=art
|no1=772
|name1=Type: Null
|type1-1=Normal
|evo1={{bag|Soothe Bell}} {{color2|000|Friendship}}
|no2=773
|name2=Silvally
|type1-2=Normal}}


==Trivia==
* Type: Null is the only Pokémon whose Italian and Spanish names differ from its English name.
* Type: Null has the highest base stat total of all unevolved Pokémon.

===Origin===
Type: Null appears to be based on a {{wp|Chimera (mythology)|chimera}}. It is heavily suggested that it was created to possess the strengths of [[Arceus]], but as a result is a crude combination of different features.

====Name origin====
Type: Null was originally called Type: Full by its creators, but was renamed Type: Null after being deemed a failure.

Type: Full is literally ''type'' and ''full'' (everything), describing its intended ability to become any type.
Type: Null is literally ''[[type]]'' and ''null'' (nothing), a disparaging name given when it was deemed a failure.

==In other languages==
{{Other languages|type=Normal|type2=Normal
|ja=タイプ：ヌル ''Type: Null''|jameaning=From ''type'' and ''null''
|fr=Type:0|frmeaning=From ''type'' and {{tt|''0''|zero}}
|es=Código Cero|esmeaning=From {{tt|''código''|code}} and {{tt|''cero''|zero}}
|de=Typ:Null|demeaning=From {{tt|''Typ''|type}} and {{tt|''Null''|zero}}
|it=Tipo Zero|itmeaning=From {{tt|''tipo''|type}} and ''zero''
|ko=타입:널 ''Type: Null''|komeaning=Transliteration of Japanese name
|zh_cmn=屬性：空 / 属性：空 ''Shǔxìng: Kōng''|zh_cmnmeaning=From {{tt|屬性 / 属性 ''shǔxìng''|type}} and {{tt|空 ''kōng''|empty}}
|zh_yue=屬性：空 ''Suhksing: Hūng''|zh_yuemeaning=From {{tt|屬性 ''suhksing''|type}} and {{tt|空 ''hūng''|empty}}
|ru=Тип: Ноль ''Tip: Nol'''|rumeaning=From {{tt|тип ''tip''|type}} and {{tt|ноль ''nol'''|zero}}}}
{{-}}

''Type: Full''
{{langtable|color={{normal color}}|bordercolor={{normal color dark}}
|zh_cmn=屬性：滿 / 属性：满 ''Shǔxìng: Mǎn''
|zh_yue=屬性：滿 ''Suhksing: Múhn''
|fr=Type:18
|de=Typ:Full
|it=Omnitipo
|ko=타입:풀 ''Type: Full''
|es=Código Omnia}}
{{-}}

==Related articles==

==External links==
{{PokémonPrevNext/Head|type=Normal}}
{{PokémonPrevNext/Pokémon|type=Normal|prevnum=771|prev=Pyukumuku|nextnum=773|next=Silvally}}
|}
{{Project Pokédex notice}}

[[Category:Generation VII Pokémon]]
[[Category:Artificial Pokémon]]
[[Category:Pokémon that evolve by friendship]]

[[de:Typ:Null]]
[[fr:Type:0]]
[[it:Tipo Zero]]
[[ja:タイプ:ヌル]]
[[zh:属性：空]]

Talk:Silvally (Pokémon)

2016-12-05T21:10:59Z

N-Denizen: /* Name origin */

== Griffin ==

It's cat-like ears, beak-like snout, eagle-shaped ax on it's forehead, bird-like forelegs, cat-like hind legs, and the shape of it's neck and it's feather-like appendages make it resemble a griffin.[[User:Robbie|Robbie]] ([[User talk:Robbie|talk]]) 13:29, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

== Again, Russian name... ==

Russian name for Silvally is Силвалли. Can't wait to see the name origin, what a sil(val)ly name for such an intimidating Pokémon! --[[User:Celadonkey|--Celadonkey]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 13:37, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
:The transcription should be as follows <code>''Silvalli''|rumeaning=Transcription of English name</code>. Sadly it's just nohting more as the written English name. :( --[[User:Raltseye|Raltseye]] [[User talk:Raltseye|prata med mej]] 14:14, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
::Thanks m8! Since I don't want to mess anything up (I'm no expert on foreign languages or alphabets, I just like them) I didn't put that there. --[[User:Celadonkey|--Celadonkey]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 14:19, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
:::No worries! There's quite few of the Russian names that isn't a transcription of their English name I'm afraid. Only like {{p|Kangaskhan}}, {{p|Vanilluxe}}, and {{p|Type: Null}} when I think of it actualy. --[[User:Raltseye|Raltseye]] [[User talk:Raltseye|prata med mej]] 15:43, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
::::And Vanilluxe and Kangaskhan are still very close. That's kind of sad, that Russian doesn't get its own Pokémon names. But it's still better than if it were not even transcribed. --[[User:Celadonkey|--Celadonkey]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 18:30, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

== Update ==
Well, the English name origin should be updated... [[User:Lokki|Lokki]] ([[User talk:Lokki|talk]]) 18:11, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

== Biology ==

I saw nobody started on it yet, so I thought I'd put this here. It's still rather rough, so feel free to edit it as needed.

Silvally is a tall, quadruped with traits from a variety of animals. Its formerly gray fur is now a brilliant white, and the silver spike at the tip of its mohawk is now longer and a darker grey. The blade is now split further into two sections, with three additional white blades protruding from the back. Silvally's upper jaw is metallic, with a 'rivet' on each side and a sharp, triangular hook angling downwards near the end, resembling that of a bird. There are three red lines surrounding its black, triangular nose and a metallic 'strip' running along the middle of its snout, tapering off into a point near its ears. Silvally's ears are the same white color as its fur on the outside, being black and red on the inside. Two triangles of the same red color extend from the ears and point downwards. Silvally's limbs and torso remain mainly unchanged, and the mane of fur cascading down Silvally's neck now fully covers its chest. {{unsigned|Spirios}}

== Legendary status ==

[https://twitter.com/SciresM/status/799322666079551488 In the game's coding], Type: Null and Silvally are classified as "sub-legendaries" (legendaries that are allowed in battle facilities), and their Pokedex page has the same green background that legendaries have. So should we call them Legendary Pokemon or not? --[[User:Master Lucario|Master Lucario]] ([[User talk:Master Lucario|talk]]) 04:46, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

:This is a subject very similar to the discussion going on about the Ultra Beasts and the Tapus, which are also allowed in restricted gameplay. Silvally is a man-made Pokemon, and while Mewtwo shows man-made Pokemon aren't exempt from being legendary, there are multiple Silvally, similar to Porygon. Silvally is also an evolved form, but as Solgaleo and Lunala have shown, evolution among legendaries is possible. These points aren't brought up to sway one way or the other; I'm just pointing out that it is extremely difficult to tell for now, and so more information is needed. It shouldn't be added into the article until a consensus is reached. Currently, the plan is to leave it undecided until Nintendo or Game Freak give more information. (see [[Talk:Legendary_Pokémon]]) [[User:TechSkylander1518|TechSkylander1518]] ([[User talk:TechSkylander1518|talk]]) 05:32, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

Indeed Silvally along with the Tapus and Ultra Beats are very special and unique Pokemon.--[[User:Jacob9594|Jacob Kogan]] ([[User talk:Jacob9594|talk]]) 16:03, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

== English Name Origin ==

Seeing as how Silvally is known as the Synthetic Pokemon and has very prominent high-tech traits, I believe that it is extremely plausible that this Pokemon's name may also be a reference to the Silicon Valley region.

My contribution is just as plausible as the previous edit by the user Taylor, which noted that "ally" was intentionally replaced with "buddy".

I feel that either both edits should stay, or they should both be removed. Thoughts? [[User:ImNotGoodAtPasswords|ImNotGoodAtPasswords]] ([[User talk:ImNotGoodAtPasswords|talk]]) 21:47, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
:That is not a compromise, that is being salty and trying to get your way. "Ally" is far more plausible and believable that "Silicon Valley".--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 04:54, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
::The user Taylor's edit points out that Silvally's name has the word "all" in it. To me, that seems like a side effect of using the word ally, rather than an intentional decision. I am just curious why his contribution can stay while mine is removed.

::I apologize for any annoyances I've caused. I just wanted to supply my own conviction on the topic. [[User:ImNotGoodAtPasswords|ImNotGoodAtPasswords]] ([[User talk:ImNotGoodAtPasswords|talk]]) 05:27, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

== Name origin ==

It should be mentioned in Trivia that Silvally is its name because it was named by Gladion himself (Moon pokedex entry), as opposed to it just being "known" like with other species. Would make it perhaps the only one of its kind to have that specification, except for perhaps Mewtwo. [[User:N-Denizen|N-Denizen]] ([[User talk:N-Denizen|talk]]) 21:10, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

Talk:Silvally (Pokémon)

2016-12-05T21:10:42Z

N-Denizen: /* Name origin */ new section

== Griffin ==

It's cat-like ears, beak-like snout, eagle-shaped ax on it's forehead, bird-like forelegs, cat-like hind legs, and the shape of it's neck and it's feather-like appendages make it resemble a griffin.[[User:Robbie|Robbie]] ([[User talk:Robbie|talk]]) 13:29, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

== Again, Russian name... ==

Russian name for Silvally is Силвалли. Can't wait to see the name origin, what a sil(val)ly name for such an intimidating Pokémon! --[[User:Celadonkey|--Celadonkey]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 13:37, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
:The transcription should be as follows <code>''Silvalli''|rumeaning=Transcription of English name</code>. Sadly it's just nohting more as the written English name. :( --[[User:Raltseye|Raltseye]] [[User talk:Raltseye|prata med mej]] 14:14, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
::Thanks m8! Since I don't want to mess anything up (I'm no expert on foreign languages or alphabets, I just like them) I didn't put that there. --[[User:Celadonkey|--Celadonkey]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 14:19, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
:::No worries! There's quite few of the Russian names that isn't a transcription of their English name I'm afraid. Only like {{p|Kangaskhan}}, {{p|Vanilluxe}}, and {{p|Type: Null}} when I think of it actualy. --[[User:Raltseye|Raltseye]] [[User talk:Raltseye|prata med mej]] 15:43, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
::::And Vanilluxe and Kangaskhan are still very close. That's kind of sad, that Russian doesn't get its own Pokémon names. But it's still better than if it were not even transcribed. --[[User:Celadonkey|--Celadonkey]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 18:30, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

== Update ==
Well, the English name origin should be updated... [[User:Lokki|Lokki]] ([[User talk:Lokki|talk]]) 18:11, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

== Biology ==

I saw nobody started on it yet, so I thought I'd put this here. It's still rather rough, so feel free to edit it as needed.

Silvally is a tall, quadruped with traits from a variety of animals. Its formerly gray fur is now a brilliant white, and the silver spike at the tip of its mohawk is now longer and a darker grey. The blade is now split further into two sections, with three additional white blades protruding from the back. Silvally's upper jaw is metallic, with a 'rivet' on each side and a sharp, triangular hook angling downwards near the end, resembling that of a bird. There are three red lines surrounding its black, triangular nose and a metallic 'strip' running along the middle of its snout, tapering off into a point near its ears. Silvally's ears are the same white color as its fur on the outside, being black and red on the inside. Two triangles of the same red color extend from the ears and point downwards. Silvally's limbs and torso remain mainly unchanged, and the mane of fur cascading down Silvally's neck now fully covers its chest. {{unsigned|Spirios}}

== Legendary status ==

[https://twitter.com/SciresM/status/799322666079551488 In the game's coding], Type: Null and Silvally are classified as "sub-legendaries" (legendaries that are allowed in battle facilities), and their Pokedex page has the same green background that legendaries have. So should we call them Legendary Pokemon or not? --[[User:Master Lucario|Master Lucario]] ([[User talk:Master Lucario|talk]]) 04:46, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

:This is a subject very similar to the discussion going on about the Ultra Beasts and the Tapus, which are also allowed in restricted gameplay. Silvally is a man-made Pokemon, and while Mewtwo shows man-made Pokemon aren't exempt from being legendary, there are multiple Silvally, similar to Porygon. Silvally is also an evolved form, but as Solgaleo and Lunala have shown, evolution among legendaries is possible. These points aren't brought up to sway one way or the other; I'm just pointing out that it is extremely difficult to tell for now, and so more information is needed. It shouldn't be added into the article until a consensus is reached. Currently, the plan is to leave it undecided until Nintendo or Game Freak give more information. (see [[Talk:Legendary_Pokémon]]) [[User:TechSkylander1518|TechSkylander1518]] ([[User talk:TechSkylander1518|talk]]) 05:32, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

Indeed Silvally along with the Tapus and Ultra Beats are very special and unique Pokemon.--[[User:Jacob9594|Jacob Kogan]] ([[User talk:Jacob9594|talk]]) 16:03, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

== English Name Origin ==

Seeing as how Silvally is known as the Synthetic Pokemon and has very prominent high-tech traits, I believe that it is extremely plausible that this Pokemon's name may also be a reference to the Silicon Valley region.

My contribution is just as plausible as the previous edit by the user Taylor, which noted that "ally" was intentionally replaced with "buddy".

I feel that either both edits should stay, or they should both be removed. Thoughts? [[User:ImNotGoodAtPasswords|ImNotGoodAtPasswords]] ([[User talk:ImNotGoodAtPasswords|talk]]) 21:47, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
:That is not a compromise, that is being salty and trying to get your way. "Ally" is far more plausible and believable that "Silicon Valley".--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 04:54, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
::The user Taylor's edit points out that Silvally's name has the word "all" in it. To me, that seems like a side effect of using the word ally, rather than an intentional decision. I am just curious why his contribution can stay while mine is removed.

::I apologize for any annoyances I've caused. I just wanted to supply my own conviction on the topic. [[User:ImNotGoodAtPasswords|ImNotGoodAtPasswords]] ([[User talk:ImNotGoodAtPasswords|talk]]) 05:27, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

== Name origin ==

It should be mentioned in Trivia that Silvally is its name because it was named by Gladion himself (Moon pokedex entry), as opposed to it just being "known" like with other species. Would make it perhaps the only one of its kind to have that specification, except for perhaps Mewtwo.

Talk:Pseudo-legendary Pokémon/Archive 1

2011-03-12T20:12:52Z

N-Denizen: /* Ulgamoth */

==What???==
What??? Do we seriously need this??? --{{Ani|155}}{{Ani|476}}'''[[User:Theryguy512|Theryguy]][[User:Theryguy512/Contribution Page|5]][[User:Theryguy512/Mission Page|1]][[User:Theryguy512/Sandbox|2]]'''{{Ani|473}}[[Image:Trozeiani025.gif]] 20:06, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
:im not going to say its unnessecary, but "Psuedo-legendary" sounds really stupid. so, i think it should either be reworked or deleted. maybe just add to each pokemon's trivia section that they are near legendary or somthing. '''[[Image:Ani081MS.gif|35px]][[User:MAGNEDETH|MAGNEDETH]][[Image:Ani082MS.gif|35px]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|TA]][[User:MAGNEDETH/Riddles|RID]][[User:MAGNEDETH/new evolutions|NE]][[User:MAGNEDETH/do over|DO]][[User:MAGNEDETH/Pokemon teams|PT]][[Image:Ani462MS.gif|35px]]''' 20:12, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
:I say reworked[[Image:Ani386MS.gif]][[User:Pokemaniac102|'''''<big>P</big>o<big>k</big>e''''']][[Image:Ani386AMS.gif]][[User talk:Pokemaniac102|'''''<big>m</big>a<big>n</big>i<big>a</big>c''''']][[Image:Ani386DMS.gif]][[User:Pokemaniac102/Riddle|'''''<big>1</big>''''']][[User talk:Pokemaniac102/Riddle|'''''0''''']][[User:Pokemaniac102/Fanfic|'''''<big>2</big>''''']][[User:Pokemaniac102/Picto|'''''♪]][[User talk:Pokemaniac102/Picto|<big>♫</big>''''']][[Image:Ani386SMS.gif]] 20:16, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

:::Needs moar reworking. I'll add the cleanup sign.. [[User:Tina|Tina]] [[Special:Contributions/Tina|δ]][[User talk:Tina|♫]] 20:21, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

::::what should they be called then? or do yall think the anme is OK? '''[[Image:Ani081MS.gif|35px]][[User:MAGNEDETH|MAGNEDETH]][[Image:Ani082MS.gif|35px]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|TA]][[User:MAGNEDETH/Riddles|RID]][[User:MAGNEDETH/new evolutions|NE]][[User:MAGNEDETH/do over|DO]][[User:MAGNEDETH/Pokemon teams|PT]][[Image:Ani462MS.gif|35px]]''' 20:36, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
:::::What'ch ya tryin' to say huh!?[[Image:Ani386MS.gif]][[User:Pokemaniac102|'''''<big>P</big>o<big>k</big>e''''']][[Image:Ani386AMS.gif]][[User talk:Pokemaniac102|'''''<big>m</big>a<big>n</big>i<big>a</big>c''''']][[Image:Ani386DMS.gif]][[User:Pokemaniac102/Riddle|'''''<big>1</big>''''']][[User talk:Pokemaniac102/Riddle|'''''0''''']][[User:Pokemaniac102/Fanfic|'''''<big>2</big>''''']][[User:Pokemaniac102/Picto|'''''♪]][[User talk:Pokemaniac102/Picto|<big>♫</big>''''']][[Image:Ani386SMS.gif]] 20:38, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

:::::::Seems to me that this would an article if where was a "Competitive Battling Project" thing. I do believe I heard the term "Pseudo-legendary" at least once in some places such as Smogon... [[Image:Ani026MS.gif]][[User:Mudkipchan|Mudkipchan]][[Image:Ani392MS.gif]]

::::::::I heard it before. But that was when it was refering to the Groudon in jirachi movie

:::::::::They are all generally recognised as a set of unique pokemon with a few exceptions to each. (e.g. Garchomp's national pokedex number). However, the fan-term 'pseudo-legendary' in itself only actually refers to their final stages. (Dragonite, Tyranitar, Salamence, Metagross, Garchomp). Isn't this a bit inaccurate? --[[User:Hyurnat4|Hyurnat4]] 08:44, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

::::::::::Well in the anime, Dratini was specifically called a legendary pokemon in [[EP035|Legend of Dratini]] [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 20:35, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

== Flygon? ==

I thought only base 600s were psudeo legendary. Why is flygon here? [[User:The Placebo Effect|The Placebo Effect]] 02:52, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
:I'm not too sure either. o__O; [[User:Tina|Tina]] [[Special:Contributions/Tina|δ]][[User talk:Tina|♫]] 02:53, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
::It's a three-stage part-dragon type that can only be found in its first form. [[Image:Ani164MS.gif]][[User:Shiny Noctowl|S<big>h</big>i<big>n</big>y]] [[User talk:Shiny Noctowl|<big>N</big>o<big>c</big>t<big>o</big>w<big>l</big>]]  02:54, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
:::i dont think Flygon should be there, its just not rediculous enough '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAG]][[User:MAGNEDETH#Interesting Stuff|NE]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|DETH]]''' 02:55, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

== Dragonair? ==

CAn't you find wild dragonair in more than 1 game? [[User:The Placebo Effect|The Placebo Effect]] 03:19, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, FRLGRBYDP, But in DP you can find Pokéradar-ed Vibrava. So? [[Image:Ani197MS.gif]][[User:Midnight Celtic|Midnight Celtic]][[Image:Ani148MS.gif]] 03:21, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

:the fact of the matter is that Dragonite is def a psuedo-leg. '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAG]][[User:MAGNEDETH#Interesting Stuff|NE]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|DETH]]''' 03:24, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. [[Image:Ani197MS.gif]][[User:Midnight Celtic|Midnight Celtic]][[Image:Ani148MS.gif]] 03:25, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

== Aggron ==

What about Aggron? [[Image:Ani491MS.gif]][[User:Kpokefan|K]][[User talk:Kpokefan|P]][[User:Kpokefan/Missions|F]][[Image:Ani000MS.gif]] 04:37, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
:Aggron's UU, I believe. UU Pokémon wouldn't be psuedolegendary if they were in UU. :p [[User:Tina|Tina]] [[Special:Contributions/Tina|δ]][[User talk:Tina|♫]] 04:39, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
::may i ask what UU is? '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAG]][[User:MAGNEDETH#Interesting Stuff|NE]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|DETH]]''' 04:41, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
:::I think it means Under-used, as in List of Pokémon by Tier, which is fan-made[[User:Pokemaniac102|Poke]][[User talk:Pokemaniac102|Maniac]][[Special:Contributions/Pokemaniac102|102]] 04:45, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
::::Yep, under-used. It's fanmade. As is the term pseudolegendary. [[User:Tina|Tina]] [[Special:Contributions/Tina|δ]][[User talk:Tina|♫]] 04:46, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
:::::right, well, Aggron doesnt fit the bill because Lairon can be caught in Victory road, and apparently, thats against the rules...or somthing... '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAG]][[User:MAGNEDETH#Interesting Stuff|NE]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|DETH]]''' 04:47, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
::::::True.[[User:Pokemaniac102|Poke]][[User talk:Pokemaniac102|Maniac]][[Special:Contributions/Pokemaniac102|102]] 04:49, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
:::::::Wait a minute, you can catch Dragonair in the wild, so how is Lairon against the rules? [[Image:491.png|45px 45px]][[User:Kpokefan|'''K''']][[User talk:Kpokefan|'''P''']][[User:Kpokefan/Missions|'''F''']][[Image:Cal.png|30px 30px]] 02:45, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
::::::::Because Aggron's base stats don't total 600. - [[User:Nebula|Nebula]] 15:45, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::The true defintion of pseudo-legendary is a bst of 600 and a three-stage evolutionary line. Things like Dragonair and gabite being caught in the wild are merely trivial. As is the fact they all have one immunity etc. Aggron, Flygon and Kingdra are NOT pseudo-legendaries and never will be. P-Ls do not have to be dragon-type or dragonoid. --[[User:Hyurnat4|Hyurnat4]] 08:50, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

== Real definition for psuedo-legendary ==

Isn't it a BST of 600? [[User:The Placebo Effect|The Placebo Effect]] 13:12, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

== Pseudo-legendary --> Powerhouse ==

It seems to me that everyone who commented on this page, other than Shiny Noctowl, was dumbfounded as to the article's title and definition therein. For pages dealing with fanon terminology, this is a good sign that something has been done '''wrong'''; fanon terms are ''necessarily'' known to a large number of fans, as opposed to a select few, or in this case - no more than one.

Furthemore, the page (prior to my editing it) included mentions of Pokémon with legendary characteristics, despite their having nothing to do with the suggested definiton of pseudo-legendary. It was also a mere copy-and-paste of the corresponding section on the [[Legendary]] page. Now, as for the definition itself, it should be crystal-clear that the powerhouses, as defined by myself, are ''distinct'' in their categorization from any other Pokémon ({{p|Flygon}}, for the sake of discussion). Simply put, they are non-legendary Pokémon whose total base stats is 600, which is a great deal higher than Flygon's 520 (see the trivia paragraph for clarification on {{p|Slaking}}). Besides, what makes Flygon any more special than {{p|Aggron}}, {{p|Walrein}} and the 7 fully-evolved, two-typed starters? All of these match the definition used by Shiny Noctowl. I do hope that competitive usage is not the reason, because {{p|Swampert}} and {{p|Infernape}} clearly outweigh Flygon in that regard.

It amazes me that everyone assumed that the definition was acceptable simply because someone had put it forth. Bulbapedia encourages critical thinking and sets virtually no limits on the users' capacity to edit existing pages. Why was I the only one who had the fortitude to replace the previous definition with one that is actually used by the fandom? --[[User:Unown Lord|Unown Lord]] 16:47, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
:Mudkipchan apparently heard pseudo-legendary on Smogon, and I've heard pseudo-legendary on several websites, so I think it should be moved back. I agree, though, that the definition needed some work. But why remove Flygon? Its stats are slightly lower, but base stats shouldn't be included in the definition. Other than base stats, Flygon is in every way a pseudo-legendary. [[Image:Ani164MS.gif]][[User:Shiny Noctowl|S<big>h</big>i<big>n</big>y]] [[User talk:Shiny Noctowl|<big>N</big>o<big>c</big>t<big>o</big>w<big>l</big>]]  13:57, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

::You can see my comments on the article's name further below. Now, the explanation for my excluding Flygon should be quite obvious from the pieces of trivia; Dragonite, Tyranitar, Salamence, Metagross and Garchomp have more in common than what you listed in your definition, and in fact, they have more in common than just my addition to that definition (a total base stats of 600). Flygon does not share that common denominator; what it does share with the aforementioned five is also shared by ''at the very least'' Walrein and Aggron, who are part of a three-stage line, have two types, require nearly as much experience to reach their form, and have an even higher total of base stats (530). If the only reason for which you included Flygon but excluded those two is that you thought only Flygon was available strictly in its first form, then you thought wrong: In Generation III Sealeo and Walrein are also not available in the wild; in Generation IV both Vibrava and Sealeo are available (incidentally, Lairon is not).

::But all of that is irrelevant, since neither Flygon nor Walrein (nor Aggron, for that matter) has enough in common with the powerhouses/pseudo-legendaries so as to be added to the group. It is enough to require a total base stats of 600 to limit the group to the five relevant ones (a respectable addition in and of itself), but again, their common denominator is even greater than that. Look at the trivia and see it for yourself. --[[User:Unown Lord|Unown Lord]] 13:55, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

I agree with Shiny, Pseudo-Legendary makes more sense. I.E. My Snorlax is a powerhouse, but it isn't a pseudo-legendary. My Flygon is not my powerhouse, yet it is a pseudo-legendary. Catch my drift? [[Image:Ani197MS.gif]][[User:Midnight Celtic|Midnight Celtic]][[Image:Ani148MS.gif]] 15:28, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
:Psudo legendary should be used. But the only pokemon that should meet this criteria are those 3 stage evos with a base stat of 600. Slaking is questionable, but I would say no to it, as well as flygon. [[User:The Placebo Effect|The Placebo Effect]] 01:08, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

::I'm with {{u|Unown Lord}}. Take it or leave it. -[[Image:Spr 3e 186.gif|30px]][[User:Politoed666|ニョロトノ]][[User talk:Politoed666|''666'']][[Image:Spr 3e 186.gif|30px]] 03:29, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:::i agree with Placebo, though i think Slaking might be in. but not Flygon. '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAG]][[User:MAGNEDETH#Interesting Stuff|NE]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|DETH]]''' 03:31, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

I think Midnight Celtic makes a good point, powerhouse can mean ANY strong Pokémon, where as Psuedo-legendary makes a clear point. [[User:GlinnMgraw|Glinn]][[Image:Ani202MS.gif|32px]] 03:37, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:Incorrect. It depends on the definition, not the connotation that goes along with the given word(s). -[[Image:Spr 3e 186.gif|30px]][[User:Politoed666|ニョロトノ]][[User talk:Politoed666|''666'']][[Image:Spr 3e 186.gif|30px]] 03:39, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

What's the point in a defenition if it doesn't explain clearly the subject? [[User:GlinnMgraw|Glinn]][[Image:Ani202MS.gif|32px]] 03:44, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

absolutly, my old car was nicknamed "the powerhouse" but it was definatly not a pokemon! that being said, "powerhouse" is a general term, it sounds more like a metagame term than a true definition. i could load a powerful pokemon with powerful attacks, and ive got a powerhouse, but a psuedo-legendary means its special in some way, and what you are trying to appeal here is to somone whos never jheard the term before, and they will almost understand what psuedo-legendary just by the sound, where as a powerhouse requires an explanation. '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAG]][[User:MAGNEDETH#Interesting Stuff|NE]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|DETH]]''' 04:00, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
:I agree, powerhouse is too broad a term for these Pokémon. Pseudo-legendary fits the bill better. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]{{ani|155|Fire echy}}[[User:TTEchidna/GSDS|GSDS!]]''' 05:57, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

::First of all, my ''true'' gripe was with the contents of the article; redirecting the article to a new title was primarily symbolic of the reshifting of its underlying ideas. However, I would like to point out the irony in the statement that powerhouse is too broad a term spanning just about every overused Pokémon - the same can be said of pseudo-legendary, as evidenced by the fact that this article originally contained a separate list of Pokémon with legendary characteristics!

::Furthermore, I personally feel that ''pseudo-legendary'' should be used to describe only two Pokémon that are not even mentioned in the article: {{p|Unown}} and {{p|Phione}}. ''Legendary'' alludes to mystery and nature or universe-controlling abilities; this article deals with battle prowess, for which legendaries are certainly well known, but it takes second place to their aura. Besides, some legendaries are not as battle-competent as the pseudo-legendaries/powerhouses in the article - practically all tweleve members of the legendary trios, and arguably some others. This comparison holds in base stats (the legendary trio all have a total of 580, which is lower than 600), but even an in-depth comparison on a competitive level leads to the same conclusion, at least generally. Therefore, is it justified to attach the name ''pseudo-legendary'' to a definition that highlights the battle prowess of Pokémon that are actually stronger than some legendaries? On the other hand, Unown and Phione are indeed pseudo-legendary if the term is taken to mean a Pokémon whose aura is associated with a true legendary ({{p|Suicune}} in Unown's case and {{p|Manaphy}} in Phione's).

::But I digress, as I do agree that if ''pseudo-legendary'' is more frequently used by the fandom to describe the group in question, then it should be used for the purposes of discussing a fanon term.

::One last thing - I appreciate Politoed666's token of solidarity. I don't mind reversions to my own edits, especially when done by another sysop, but it isn't my idea of showing respect; it would have been better to wait a bit longer in case I had arguments to present. I only wonder why the same level of urgency was not taken to revise the contents of the article in its original format, when it obviously needed re-working. --[[User:Unown Lord|Unown Lord]] 13:55, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

I agree with certain points made by Unown Lord. Perhaps the overall issue with the term "pseudo-legendary" is the usage of "legendary." There are Pokémon that are "legendary" which do have certain exclusive characteristics, and applying the term to another group has its drawbacks. While the term may certain have specific applications to the pseudo-legendary Pokémon it is difficult to draw a completely defined line, contrary to the case with legendary Pokémon. The debate over which Pokémon "qualify" has no feasible ending point, as fans will always stick to their opinion concerning which ones "deserve" to be included. Sure, we have limits on Bulbapedia but in spite of this fact, there is still such an issue, as we can see from this very page. Honestly, I have no problem with the term, despite how vague it is and the supposed difficulty adhering to its guidelines. My wife on the other hand, disagrees with its usage for many of the reasons I mention. [[User:Deviant Audio|Deviant Audio]] 16:01, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

== Title Trouble ==

Uhh, guys, the title says Pseudo-legendary but the article is about powerhouses... --[[User:Manga-in-a-bottle|Manga-in-a-bottle]] 06:01, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
:It's what I was in the middle of fixing, then a million edit conflicts come up. Argh. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]{{ani|155|Fire echy}}[[User:TTEchidna/GSDS|GSDS!]]''' 06:09, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
::Oh... My bad.[[User:Pokemaniac102|Poke]][[User talk:Pokemaniac102|Maniac]][[Special:Contributions/Pokemaniac102|102]] 06:12, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

I tried editing it, but then edit-conflicts. Why were you doing one at a time? I could have done it in 30 seconds. :| [[User:GlinnMgraw|Glinn]][[Image:Ani202MS.gif|32px]] 06:12, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
:There were a lot. And I wanted to get some in before there was in edit conflict[[User:Pokemaniac102|Poke]][[User talk:Pokemaniac102|Maniac]][[Special:Contributions/Pokemaniac102|102]] 06:14, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
::hows about we make a note the page about how some people call it "powerhouse" '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAG]][[User:MAGNEDETH#Interesting Stuff|NE]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|DETH]]''' 18:52, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
:::Uh Uh Uh I guess.[[User:Pokemaniac102|Poke]][[User talk:Pokemaniac102|Maniac]][[Special:Contributions/Pokemaniac102|102]] 18:55, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

== Arcanine ==
Shouldn't Arcanine be classified as a powerhouse pokemon as well? [[User:Boywonder01|'''Boy''']][[User talk:Boywonder01|'''wonder''']][[Special:Contributions/Boywonder01|'''01''']] 10:05, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
:Powerhouse. Not pseudo-legendary. There's a difference: Porygon-Z's a powerhouse, Alakazam's a powerhouse. Their base stats in Special Attack are higher than the base stats of any other non-legendary's Attack or Special Attack, but they aren't pseudo-legendary. They aren't the final forms of end-of-dex Pokémon, they're just final forms of Pokémon that do really well in Special Attack. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]{{ani|155|Fire echy}}[[User:TTEchidna/GSDS|GSDS!]]''' 10:35, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
:: But the species is called '''legendary''', despite it isn't a legendary, so it is kind of a pseudo..., isn't it? And it has the highest sum of base-stats of all non-legendary under 600... So there would be good reasons to call it a pseudo-legendary. And by the way, if you search for the [[Powerhouse]]-Article you are redirected to this article, so either there is a need for a own article for the fanterm Powerhouse or Arcanine is truly a pseudo. --[[User:Blablubbb|Blablubbb]] 06:58, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

== 600 stat point total a requirement? ==

Doesn't that seem a little subjective? I mean sure they all have that but that doesn't mean a future Pokemon of similar psuedo-legend status will have that total. Plus with these Pokemon it could just be coincidence they all have 600. Having 600 total might have been how it happened for all of them, but I just don't seem it as a ''requirement'' per se. Just that that's how it happened. Toastypk 03:34, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
:Not really. The psuedo-legends were most likely designed so that their stats WOULD total 600. The only likely exception would be Dragonite due to Special Attack/Defence being a single stat in Generation 1, but it was probably reworked to total 600 in Generation 2. It's hardly likely to be coincedence that their base stats all total 600. - [[User:Nebula|Nebula]] 16:54, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
Hmm... well I've never paid attention to stat totals anyway, just relative strengths. Toastypk
::As I said above a base stat total of 600 is a requirement, not a coindidence. It is why they are called pseudo-legendaries, as many legendary pokemon have a bst of 600.--[[User:Hyurnat4|Hyurnat4]] 08:54, 11 November 2009 (UTC)--[[User:Hyurnat4|Hyurnat4]] 08:55, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Is it worth mentioning that Tyranitar, as of gen IV, technically has a total stats of 650?? (Due to its sand stream ability and the fact that Rock types get a x1.5 boost in S.Def in a sandstorm???) I know its not its true "Base" stats as such but even so I feel it should be mentioned [[User:PhantomCX|PhantomCX]] 12:59, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
:::Nebula, the psuedo-legends were not designed so that their stats would total 600, in fact psuedo-legends at all were not designed, it is just a made up term? [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 03:16, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

=={{p|Lucario}}==
Couldn't Lucario fit the pseudo-legendary description? [[User:Shadow1337|Shadow1337]] 23:37, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
:how? its nothing like a Pseudo in any way. -- '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAG]][[User:MAGNEDETH#Interesting Stuff|NE]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|DETH]]''' 23:42, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
::Well, for one thing pseudo-legendary ''by definition'' means false legendary. Lucario was once thought to be a legendary and has very similar stats. It even has higher stats than some of the legendaries.[[User:Shadow1337|Shadow1337]] 00:23, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
Pseudo-legendary is a term used to refer to any Pokémon that has a three-stage evolution line,
two types, as well as a base stat total of 600.
:::so, does Lucario fit any of those criteria? One. he has two-types. 1/3 doesnt cut it here. -- '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAG]][[User:MAGNEDETH#Interesting Stuff|NE]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|DETH]]''' 00:40, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
::::But if Lucario ever gets an evolution, its evolution could possibly be a pseudo-legendary. <big>[[user:chocolate|Cho]][[user talk:chocolate|col]][[special:contributions/chocolate|ate]]</big> 00:45, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
:::::No, it won't. Riolu is a baby pokemon evolves from happiness, which will likely separate it. Lucario won't get an evolution because it has too varied a moveset and too high stats.--[[User:Hyurnat4|Hyurnat4]] 08:58, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
:::::That's true.[[User:Shadow1337|Shadow1337]] 00:46, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
::::::not that it wont ever happen, but be rational. do you think Lucario will seriously get an evo? rationally, no. therefor, it is not (currently) a Pseudo-legendary. btw Chocolate, id appreciate it if you didnt edit my comments. if i wanted it like that, id have made it like that in the first place. -- '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAG]][[User:MAGNEDETH#Interesting Stuff|NE]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|DETH]]''' 00:55, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
:::::::What's more, speculating on whether an evolution of a Pokémon would be pseudo-legendary is hardly a good argument for calling Lucario one. [[User:GlinnMgraw|Glinn]] [[User_talk:GlinnMgraw|Mgraw]] 11:21, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
::::::::I consider Lucario a semi-legendary Pokémon. A few others i put in the group are Pokémon like Arcanine, Unown, Rotom, etc. --'''[[User:InuMimi|いぬ]][[User talk:InuMimi|みみ]]''' 23:14, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::they have legendary traits, but they are not legendaries. and far from pseudo-legendaries. -- '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAG]][[User:MAGNEDETH#Interesting Stuff|NE]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|DETH]]''' 23:20, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

::::::::::That's why I call them semi-legendaries; meaning they are kind of legendary. --'''[[User:InuMimi|いぬ]][[User talk:InuMimi|みみ]]''' 23:23, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

== [[Slaking (Pokémon)]] ==
Why is Slaking not a Psuedo? [[User:DragonTamer|DragonTamer]] 04:53, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
:Oohh, It's not dual type, [[User:DragonTamer|DragonTamer]] 04:55, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

== Inbalance ==

Too much trivia? Too little article? Can someone with experience in competitive gameplay edit it so that the trivia is not longer than the actual article? '''[[User:Optimatum|<sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Optimatum|Talk]]|[[User:Optimatum/sig/Pikachu|Links]] 12:30, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

== New table ==
'''Here:'''
{| align="center" style="background: #272727; -moz-border-radius: 10px; border: 5px solid #525252"
! colspan="2" style="background:#{{cynthia color light}}; -moz-border-radius-topleft: 5px;" | {{color2|272727|Generation I}}
! colspan="2" style="background:#{{cynthia color light}}" | {{color2|272727|Generation II}}
! colspan="4" style="background:#{{cynthia color light}}" | {{color2|272727|Generation III}}
! colspan="2" style="background:#{{cynthia color light}}; -moz-border-radius-topright: 5px;"| {{color2|272727|Generation IV}}
|- align="center"
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{kanto color light}}" | [[Image:149.png]] '''{{pcolor|Dragonite|{{kanto color dark}}}}'''
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{johto color light}}" | [[Image:248.png]] '''{{pcolor|Tyranitar|{{johto color dark}}}}'''
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{hoenn color light}}" | [[Image:373.png]] '''{{pcolor|Salamence|{{hoenn color dark}}}}'''
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{colo color light}}" | [[Image:376.png]] '''{{pcolor|Metagross|{{colo color dark}}}}'''
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{sinnoh color light}}" | [[Image:445.png]] '''{{pcolor|Garchomp|{{sinnoh color dark}}}}'''
|- align="center" style="font-size: 90%;"
| style="background:#{{dragon color}}" | {{typecolor|Dragon}}
| style="background:#{{flying color}}" | {{typecolor|Flying}}
| style="background:#{{rock color}}" | {{typecolor|Rock}}
| style="background:#{{dark color}}" | {{typecolor|Dark}}
| style="background:#{{dragon color}}" | {{typecolor|Dragon}}
| style="background:#{{flying color}}" | {{typecolor|Flying}}
| style="background:#{{steel color}}" | {{typecolor|Steel}}
| style="background:#{{psychic color}}" | {{typecolor|Psychic}}
| style="background:#{{dragon color}}" | {{typecolor|Dragon}}
| style="background:#{{ground color}}" | {{typecolor|Ground}}
|- align="center"
! colspan="10" align="center" style="background:#{{cynthia color light}}" | {{color|272727|Evolves from}}
|- align="center"
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{kanto color light}}" | [[Image:148.png]] {{pcolor|Dragonair|{{kanto color dark}}}}
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{johto color light}}" | [[Image:247.png]] {{pcolor|Pupitar|{{johto color dark}}}}
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{hoenn color light}}" | [[Image:372.png]] {{pcolor|Shelgon|{{hoenn color dark}}}}
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{colo color light}}" | [[Image:375.png]] {{pcolor|Metang|{{colo color dark}}}}
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{sinnoh color light}}" | [[Image:444.png]] {{pcolor|Gabite|{{sinnoh color dark}}}}
|- align="center" style="font-size: 90%;"
| style="background:#{{dragon color}}" colspan="2" | {{typecolor|Dragon}}
| style="background:#{{rock color}}" | {{typecolor|Rock}}
| style="background:#{{ground color}}" | {{typecolor|Ground}}
| style="background:#{{dragon color}}" colspan="2" | {{typecolor|Dragon}}
| style="background:#{{steel color}}" | {{typecolor|Steel}}
| style="background:#{{psychic color}}" | {{typecolor|Psychic}}
| style="background:#{{dragon color}}" | {{typecolor|Dragon}}
| style="background:#{{ground color}}" | {{typecolor|Ground}}
|- align="center"
! colspan="10" align="center" style="background:#{{cynthia color light}}" | {{color|272727|Evolves from}}
|- align="center"
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{kanto color light}}" | [[Image:147.png]] {{pcolor|Dratini|{{kanto color dark}}}}
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{johto color light}}" | [[Image:246.png]] {{pcolor|Larvitar|{{johto color dark}}}}
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{hoenn color light}}" | [[Image:371.png]] {{pcolor|Bagon|{{hoenn color dark}}}}
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{colo color light}}" | [[Image:374.png]] {{pcolor|Beldum|{{colo color dark}}}}
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{sinnoh color light}}" | [[Image:443.png]] {{pcolor|Gible|{{sinnoh color dark}}}}
|- align="center" style="font-size: 90%;"
| style="background:#{{dragon color}}; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft: 5px;" colspan="2" | {{typecolor|Dragon}}
| style="background:#{{rock color}}" | {{typecolor|Rock}}
| style="background:#{{ground color}}" | {{typecolor|Ground}}
| style="background:#{{dragon color}}" colspan="2" | {{typecolor|Dragon}}
| style="background:#{{steel color}}" | {{typecolor|Steel}}
| style="background:#{{psychic color}}" | {{typecolor|Psychic}}
| style="background:#{{dragon color}}" | {{typecolor|Dragon}}
| style="background:#{{ground color}}; -moz-border-radius-bottomright: 5px;" | {{typecolor|Ground}}
|}
*[[User:Tc26|tc]][[User talk:Tc26|26]]* 03:47, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

== Available only as their first form. ==

The article states that "Most pseudo-legendaries are obtainable in the wild strictly in their first form. However, Dragonair is also obtainable in the wild in most games where Dratini is (all but Pokémon Red, Green and Blue). Likewise, Pupitar is available in the wild in Crystal. Gabite is found in Victory Road in Platinum."

However, with the addition of Platinum, Gabite can be found in the wild. This means that no, only 2 out of the 5 of them are only found in their first form in the wild. I honestly don't think that something like that should be included in the article, since when was 2 out of 5 "most", or even noteworthy? You could say that all 5 of them have the colour blue on them somewhere, but is that noteworthy?

I'd have already removed it, but the page is protected. [[User:Ggled|Ggled]] 22:09, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
:There's no blue on either Dragonite or Larvitar, thus your entire logic is flawed! Good DAY, sir! :P In all seriousness though, you raise a good point. That part of the article definitely needs to be removed. --[[User:Dual|Dual]] 04:41, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
::Maybe he means a pokemon in the line has had the colour blue on them at some point? --[[User:Hyurnat4|Hyurnat4]] 09:01, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

== Kingdra ==

It doesn't fit the 600 total, (540 in case you were wondering) but it's dual type, it has 3 stages in the family, and it's at the end of the Pokedex. Sorry about bringing up another Pokemon [[User:BaconBoy|Corvy]] 12:25, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
:Kingdra isn't a pseudo-legendary. All qualities must be met. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 20:57, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

== Base Stat total trivia ==

On all the pseudo legendaries, there is a trivia entry stating that they have the second highest base stat total behind slaking. It then goes on to say how it's tied with the other pseudo legendaries etc etc.
Wouldn't it make more sense to just not have this? I mean there's already a link to the pseudo legendary page (here) at the top of the page, and it explains here that they all have the same base stat total etc. Just seems redundant to me and pointless trivia. [[User:Derian|[[Derian]]]] 14:23, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

== Stats ==

I don't know how you'd do it, but might it be useful to put stats on the final evolutions at some point.--[[User:Hyurnat4|Hyurnat4]] 09:04, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

I agree. There is a lot of talk about stats and it would be nice to scroll up and refer to the stats of each Pokemon, rather then have to do to their individual page and scroll down. :/[[User:Tro|Tro]] 07:38, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

== Question ==

Should the part about 600 stat total be changed to something like "at least 600"? Yes there is nothing like that now, but if in future generations something with 630 total ''does'' show up it would be better to be prepared now then argue about it when something comes up.--[[user:Mtn otter|Mtn otter]] We are the Void 14:13, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
:We'll sort that out when it happens. Bulbapedia deals with the present. Thanks anyway. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 04:42, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
::I highly doubt anyone would complain about whether or not something with above 600 counts or not... [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 14:43, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

== Garchomp's location in the pokedex ==

Stated in the characteristics section, it says that Garchomp's evolution line is not next to any notable pokemon. However, I disagree: Before Gible is Spiritomb, a pokemon that is considered semi-legendary by fans, since it can only be caught once under special conditions in the wild. Should we reword that sentence to include this information? {{Unsigned|AuraGaurdian}}

:Please remember to sign your posts with four tildes (~). [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 04:56, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

== Ash's Larvitar ==

It mentions in the trivia that Ash had only one member of the pseudo-legendary line, referencing his Gible, but at one point he had a Larvitar. Shouldn't this be mentioned in the article? --~~[[User_talk:AuraGaurdian|Aura]][[Special:Contributions/AuraGaurdian|Gaurdian]] 17:44, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
:Give the source and edit it to two. [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 20:23, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
::It's called [[Ash's Larvitar]] by the way. The trivia is actually referencing to his Larvitar but if you wanted to figure out a way of wording it you could say,"Ash is the only main character in the anime to own two different members of a pseudo-legendary family." or something along those lines. –'''[[User talk:MasterKenobi|Master]][[User:MasterKenobi|Kenobi]]''' 20:36, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
:::Gonna step in here quick and bring up that I think the reason why Gible is said to be Ash's only pseudo-legendary was because Larvitar was never technically ''his'', he was just temporarily taking care of it or whatnot. Its article is named as such for the sake of simplicity. [[User:Umeko|梅子]][[User talk:Umeko|❀]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|✿]] 20:41, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
::::If that is the case then why does its article call it Ash's? Are we going to need to move the article if it wasn't Ash's? [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 03:02, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
:::::From my previous comment on the matter:
::::::''Its article is named as such'' [ie. "Ash's Larvitar"] ''for the sake of simplicity''
:::::We can't very well call the article "the Larvitar that Ash took care of for about eight episodes but was never technically owned by him" or something. :P [[User:Umeko|梅子]][[User talk:Umeko|❀]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|✿]] 15:30, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
:::::::That may be true but it apparently isn't his, the page at least should not have that, Ash's current pokemon thing at the bottom or something [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 20:11, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
This discussion would better serve a purpose [[Talk:Ash's_Larvitar#Ash.27s_Larvitar|here]], so I am moving it there

== Addition of Charizard ==
I feel that Charizard is a pseudo-legendary. I think it should be added due to it's immense power. Feel free to respond. [[User:BrianPokemonTrainer|BrianPokemonTrainer]] 00:42, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
:Did.... you even read the article? Charizard does '''not''' fufill any of the requirements. It's not even that strong. ._. ▫▫'''[[User:Tina|ティナ]]'''[[User talk:Tina|♫]][[Special:Contributions/Tina|★]] 00:45, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
::Well... who decided the rules of this '''fluff''' term anyways? [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 02:57, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

== Kibago ==

Isn't kibago a Pseudo-legendary--[[User:lilkaykaygal|KayKay]]|[[User talk:Lilkaykaygal|Chat to me!]] 03:01, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Stats don't reach +600. Ononokusu may be faster and stronger than Gyarados, but a pseudo-legendary he is not.--[[User:Black Yin Zekrom|Black Yin Zekrom]] 03:08, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

==Dratini==
Awww, who removed part of my note in the trivia about how in the anime Dratini was specifically stated to be a legendary pokemon? [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 03:18, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

:That's like saying Arcanine should by a Pseudo-Legendary because "Legendary Pokemon" is in its title.{{unsigned|Bluekirbystar}}

::No I only said it should be psuedo-legendary because the anime stated it as a legendary? [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 14:01, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
:::This page is about the Pseudo-legendary classification used by fans, especially in regards to the metagame. It does NOT refer to Pokémon which are considered legendary in in-game text or other media, despite not having the rarity or strength of typical legendaries. Why can't anyone seem to understand that? --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] 15:26, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
::::It was just a note for the trivia, trivia rarely is extremely on-topic with the rest of the article, that is why it gets posted in the trivia and not the article itself. [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 16:31, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
:::::Wrong. Trivia must be "on topic". You wouldn't add trivia about how Lance's Dragonite in Gen. I knew Barrier here. Similarly, your trivia would belong in the Legendary Pokémon article, or Dratini's article, but not this article. --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] 16:50, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
::::::Wrong. I said ''extremely'' on-topic, the anime's classification of Dratini's status is ''moderately'' on-topic with a fluff term based on what the fans feel is Dratini's status. I never said trivia could be off-topic, I only said it didn't have to be ''extremely'' on-topic. [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 04:21, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

== Metagross is used in Gen V ==

Metagross is used by Lady Caitlin in the Isshu Elite Four rematch. {{unsigned|Bluekirbystar}}

== Ononokus ==

Isn't Ononokus a psuedo-legendary? It isn't near the end of the Pokedex, but then Garchomp isn't either. [[User:Taromon777|'''T a r o m o n''']] 11:33, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
:No base stats of 600 total. End of discussion.--[[User:Dennou Zenshi|でんのう]] ☢ [[User talk:Dennou Zenshi|'''Z'''えんし]] 11:39, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, right. I don't normally bother looking at stats... [[User:Taromon777|'''T a r o m o n''']] 08:40, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
::: You should look at stats; as it is one of the best indicators of which species make a group, or are version counterparts.{{unsigned|Eriorguez}}

== Two types really necessary? ==

I'd say the defining feature is the 600 BST. The page, in more than one place, describes the fact that pseudolegendaries have two types as though you couldn't, even in theory, have a pseudolegendary without it, but is that so? Obviously, all the pseudos that currently exist have two types (and we should mention that fact, don't get me wrong), but wouldn't we just adjust our definition if they (hypothetically) introduced a monotype pseudo in the sixth generation? I don't think we should "define" a pseudo as having two types; nor should we list that as one of the reasons Slaking isn't. --[[User:HeroicJay|HeroicJay]] 17:25, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
:Good point, don't two typers have more weaknesses usually? Not a very legendary trait... [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 03:43, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

== Ulgamoth ==

This may be shot down, but SURELY Ulgamoth is a pseudo-legendary. It may lack the Base Stats and Second Evolution, but it's clearly intended to be in the same tier. Its final evolution receives the EV yield of a Third-Stage pokemon, it comes right after Sazandorah, just like how Salamence and Metagross are placed next to each other (Garchomp was separated from legendaries by Evolutions from previous gens). It has significant mythology connected to it, and is obtained in peculiar ways, one of which is fashioned like a Legendary Encounter. It evolves at a ridiculously high level. Hell, the concept itself is that of something that would have a cocoon stage, but missed out on it somehow. The 550 Base Stat is peculiar, but surely can be put down to it having Butterfly Dance, an obscenely powerful move. Pretty much everything points it to being a counterpart with Sazandorah as the two pseudo-legendaries of Generation 5. [[User:N-Denizen|N-Denizen]] 23:30, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
:Nope, needs to have the stats and isn't a {{type|Dragon}}. {{p|Haxorus}} isn't considered Pseudo-legendary because of stats and it IS a {{t|Dragon}}. --[[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']]''' 23:34, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
::{{p|Tyranitar|They don't have to be a Dragon}} {{p|Metagross|to be considered pseudo-legendary}}. But yeah, Ulgamoth has the wrong stats and it only has two stages. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 00:40, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
:::Thanks for the clarification User Kenji-girl. --[[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']]''' 23:33, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
:I would agree on Volcarona being intended to be something special, but not the same thing as pseudo-legends. It is something new and different, even if similar. [[User:Eriorguez|Eriorguez]] 13:55, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
::The only problem I see then is that it's left in a weird limbo. It's not a "legendary" because it can breed, and despite being a Champion's ace, apparently not a pseudo-legendary. I think it's significant enough to classified as something surely. [[User:N-Denizen|N-Denizen]] 20:12, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

Talk:Pseudo-legendary Pokémon/Archive 1

2011-02-09T23:30:26Z

N-Denizen: /* Ulgamoth */

==What???==
What??? Do we seriously need this??? --{{Ani|155}}{{Ani|476}}'''[[User:Theryguy512|Theryguy]][[User:Theryguy512/Contribution Page|5]][[User:Theryguy512/Mission Page|1]][[User:Theryguy512/Sandbox|2]]'''{{Ani|473}}[[Image:Trozeiani025.gif]] 20:06, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
:im not going to say its unnessecary, but "Psuedo-legendary" sounds really stupid. so, i think it should either be reworked or deleted. maybe just add to each pokemon's trivia section that they are near legendary or somthing. '''[[Image:Ani081MS.gif|35px]][[User:MAGNEDETH|MAGNEDETH]][[Image:Ani082MS.gif|35px]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|TA]][[User:MAGNEDETH/Riddles|RID]][[User:MAGNEDETH/new evolutions|NE]][[User:MAGNEDETH/do over|DO]][[User:MAGNEDETH/Pokemon teams|PT]][[Image:Ani462MS.gif|35px]]''' 20:12, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
:I say reworked[[Image:Ani386MS.gif]][[User:Pokemaniac102|'''''<big>P</big>o<big>k</big>e''''']][[Image:Ani386AMS.gif]][[User talk:Pokemaniac102|'''''<big>m</big>a<big>n</big>i<big>a</big>c''''']][[Image:Ani386DMS.gif]][[User:Pokemaniac102/Riddle|'''''<big>1</big>''''']][[User talk:Pokemaniac102/Riddle|'''''0''''']][[User:Pokemaniac102/Fanfic|'''''<big>2</big>''''']][[User:Pokemaniac102/Picto|'''''♪]][[User talk:Pokemaniac102/Picto|<big>♫</big>''''']][[Image:Ani386SMS.gif]] 20:16, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

:::Needs moar reworking. I'll add the cleanup sign.. [[User:Tina|Tina]] [[Special:Contributions/Tina|δ]][[User talk:Tina|♫]] 20:21, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

::::what should they be called then? or do yall think the anme is OK? '''[[Image:Ani081MS.gif|35px]][[User:MAGNEDETH|MAGNEDETH]][[Image:Ani082MS.gif|35px]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|TA]][[User:MAGNEDETH/Riddles|RID]][[User:MAGNEDETH/new evolutions|NE]][[User:MAGNEDETH/do over|DO]][[User:MAGNEDETH/Pokemon teams|PT]][[Image:Ani462MS.gif|35px]]''' 20:36, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
:::::What'ch ya tryin' to say huh!?[[Image:Ani386MS.gif]][[User:Pokemaniac102|'''''<big>P</big>o<big>k</big>e''''']][[Image:Ani386AMS.gif]][[User talk:Pokemaniac102|'''''<big>m</big>a<big>n</big>i<big>a</big>c''''']][[Image:Ani386DMS.gif]][[User:Pokemaniac102/Riddle|'''''<big>1</big>''''']][[User talk:Pokemaniac102/Riddle|'''''0''''']][[User:Pokemaniac102/Fanfic|'''''<big>2</big>''''']][[User:Pokemaniac102/Picto|'''''♪]][[User talk:Pokemaniac102/Picto|<big>♫</big>''''']][[Image:Ani386SMS.gif]] 20:38, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

:::::::Seems to me that this would an article if where was a "Competitive Battling Project" thing. I do believe I heard the term "Pseudo-legendary" at least once in some places such as Smogon... [[Image:Ani026MS.gif]][[User:Mudkipchan|Mudkipchan]][[Image:Ani392MS.gif]]

::::::::I heard it before. But that was when it was refering to the Groudon in jirachi movie

:::::::::They are all generally recognised as a set of unique pokemon with a few exceptions to each. (e.g. Garchomp's national pokedex number). However, the fan-term 'pseudo-legendary' in itself only actually refers to their final stages. (Dragonite, Tyranitar, Salamence, Metagross, Garchomp). Isn't this a bit inaccurate? --[[User:Hyurnat4|Hyurnat4]] 08:44, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

::::::::::Well in the anime, Dratini was specifically called a legendary pokemon in [[EP035|Legend of Dratini]] [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 20:35, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

== Flygon? ==

I thought only base 600s were psudeo legendary. Why is flygon here? [[User:The Placebo Effect|The Placebo Effect]] 02:52, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
:I'm not too sure either. o__O; [[User:Tina|Tina]] [[Special:Contributions/Tina|δ]][[User talk:Tina|♫]] 02:53, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
::It's a three-stage part-dragon type that can only be found in its first form. [[Image:Ani164MS.gif]][[User:Shiny Noctowl|S<big>h</big>i<big>n</big>y]] [[User talk:Shiny Noctowl|<big>N</big>o<big>c</big>t<big>o</big>w<big>l</big>]]  02:54, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
:::i dont think Flygon should be there, its just not rediculous enough '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAG]][[User:MAGNEDETH#Interesting Stuff|NE]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|DETH]]''' 02:55, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

== Dragonair? ==

CAn't you find wild dragonair in more than 1 game? [[User:The Placebo Effect|The Placebo Effect]] 03:19, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, FRLGRBYDP, But in DP you can find Pokéradar-ed Vibrava. So? [[Image:Ani197MS.gif]][[User:Midnight Celtic|Midnight Celtic]][[Image:Ani148MS.gif]] 03:21, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

:the fact of the matter is that Dragonite is def a psuedo-leg. '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAG]][[User:MAGNEDETH#Interesting Stuff|NE]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|DETH]]''' 03:24, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. [[Image:Ani197MS.gif]][[User:Midnight Celtic|Midnight Celtic]][[Image:Ani148MS.gif]] 03:25, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

== Aggron ==

What about Aggron? [[Image:Ani491MS.gif]][[User:Kpokefan|K]][[User talk:Kpokefan|P]][[User:Kpokefan/Missions|F]][[Image:Ani000MS.gif]] 04:37, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
:Aggron's UU, I believe. UU Pokémon wouldn't be psuedolegendary if they were in UU. :p [[User:Tina|Tina]] [[Special:Contributions/Tina|δ]][[User talk:Tina|♫]] 04:39, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
::may i ask what UU is? '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAG]][[User:MAGNEDETH#Interesting Stuff|NE]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|DETH]]''' 04:41, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
:::I think it means Under-used, as in List of Pokémon by Tier, which is fan-made[[User:Pokemaniac102|Poke]][[User talk:Pokemaniac102|Maniac]][[Special:Contributions/Pokemaniac102|102]] 04:45, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
::::Yep, under-used. It's fanmade. As is the term pseudolegendary. [[User:Tina|Tina]] [[Special:Contributions/Tina|δ]][[User talk:Tina|♫]] 04:46, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
:::::right, well, Aggron doesnt fit the bill because Lairon can be caught in Victory road, and apparently, thats against the rules...or somthing... '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAG]][[User:MAGNEDETH#Interesting Stuff|NE]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|DETH]]''' 04:47, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
::::::True.[[User:Pokemaniac102|Poke]][[User talk:Pokemaniac102|Maniac]][[Special:Contributions/Pokemaniac102|102]] 04:49, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
:::::::Wait a minute, you can catch Dragonair in the wild, so how is Lairon against the rules? [[Image:491.png|45px 45px]][[User:Kpokefan|'''K''']][[User talk:Kpokefan|'''P''']][[User:Kpokefan/Missions|'''F''']][[Image:Cal.png|30px 30px]] 02:45, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
::::::::Because Aggron's base stats don't total 600. - [[User:Nebula|Nebula]] 15:45, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::The true defintion of pseudo-legendary is a bst of 600 and a three-stage evolutionary line. Things like Dragonair and gabite being caught in the wild are merely trivial. As is the fact they all have one immunity etc. Aggron, Flygon and Kingdra are NOT pseudo-legendaries and never will be. P-Ls do not have to be dragon-type or dragonoid. --[[User:Hyurnat4|Hyurnat4]] 08:50, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

== Real definition for psuedo-legendary ==

Isn't it a BST of 600? [[User:The Placebo Effect|The Placebo Effect]] 13:12, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

== Pseudo-legendary --> Powerhouse ==

It seems to me that everyone who commented on this page, other than Shiny Noctowl, was dumbfounded as to the article's title and definition therein. For pages dealing with fanon terminology, this is a good sign that something has been done '''wrong'''; fanon terms are ''necessarily'' known to a large number of fans, as opposed to a select few, or in this case - no more than one.

Furthemore, the page (prior to my editing it) included mentions of Pokémon with legendary characteristics, despite their having nothing to do with the suggested definiton of pseudo-legendary. It was also a mere copy-and-paste of the corresponding section on the [[Legendary]] page. Now, as for the definition itself, it should be crystal-clear that the powerhouses, as defined by myself, are ''distinct'' in their categorization from any other Pokémon ({{p|Flygon}}, for the sake of discussion). Simply put, they are non-legendary Pokémon whose total base stats is 600, which is a great deal higher than Flygon's 520 (see the trivia paragraph for clarification on {{p|Slaking}}). Besides, what makes Flygon any more special than {{p|Aggron}}, {{p|Walrein}} and the 7 fully-evolved, two-typed starters? All of these match the definition used by Shiny Noctowl. I do hope that competitive usage is not the reason, because {{p|Swampert}} and {{p|Infernape}} clearly outweigh Flygon in that regard.

It amazes me that everyone assumed that the definition was acceptable simply because someone had put it forth. Bulbapedia encourages critical thinking and sets virtually no limits on the users' capacity to edit existing pages. Why was I the only one who had the fortitude to replace the previous definition with one that is actually used by the fandom? --[[User:Unown Lord|Unown Lord]] 16:47, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
:Mudkipchan apparently heard pseudo-legendary on Smogon, and I've heard pseudo-legendary on several websites, so I think it should be moved back. I agree, though, that the definition needed some work. But why remove Flygon? Its stats are slightly lower, but base stats shouldn't be included in the definition. Other than base stats, Flygon is in every way a pseudo-legendary. [[Image:Ani164MS.gif]][[User:Shiny Noctowl|S<big>h</big>i<big>n</big>y]] [[User talk:Shiny Noctowl|<big>N</big>o<big>c</big>t<big>o</big>w<big>l</big>]]  13:57, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

::You can see my comments on the article's name further below. Now, the explanation for my excluding Flygon should be quite obvious from the pieces of trivia; Dragonite, Tyranitar, Salamence, Metagross and Garchomp have more in common than what you listed in your definition, and in fact, they have more in common than just my addition to that definition (a total base stats of 600). Flygon does not share that common denominator; what it does share with the aforementioned five is also shared by ''at the very least'' Walrein and Aggron, who are part of a three-stage line, have two types, require nearly as much experience to reach their form, and have an even higher total of base stats (530). If the only reason for which you included Flygon but excluded those two is that you thought only Flygon was available strictly in its first form, then you thought wrong: In Generation III Sealeo and Walrein are also not available in the wild; in Generation IV both Vibrava and Sealeo are available (incidentally, Lairon is not).

::But all of that is irrelevant, since neither Flygon nor Walrein (nor Aggron, for that matter) has enough in common with the powerhouses/pseudo-legendaries so as to be added to the group. It is enough to require a total base stats of 600 to limit the group to the five relevant ones (a respectable addition in and of itself), but again, their common denominator is even greater than that. Look at the trivia and see it for yourself. --[[User:Unown Lord|Unown Lord]] 13:55, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

I agree with Shiny, Pseudo-Legendary makes more sense. I.E. My Snorlax is a powerhouse, but it isn't a pseudo-legendary. My Flygon is not my powerhouse, yet it is a pseudo-legendary. Catch my drift? [[Image:Ani197MS.gif]][[User:Midnight Celtic|Midnight Celtic]][[Image:Ani148MS.gif]] 15:28, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
:Psudo legendary should be used. But the only pokemon that should meet this criteria are those 3 stage evos with a base stat of 600. Slaking is questionable, but I would say no to it, as well as flygon. [[User:The Placebo Effect|The Placebo Effect]] 01:08, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

::I'm with {{u|Unown Lord}}. Take it or leave it. -[[Image:Spr 3e 186.gif|30px]][[User:Politoed666|ニョロトノ]][[User talk:Politoed666|''666'']][[Image:Spr 3e 186.gif|30px]] 03:29, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:::i agree with Placebo, though i think Slaking might be in. but not Flygon. '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAG]][[User:MAGNEDETH#Interesting Stuff|NE]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|DETH]]''' 03:31, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

I think Midnight Celtic makes a good point, powerhouse can mean ANY strong Pokémon, where as Psuedo-legendary makes a clear point. [[User:GlinnMgraw|Glinn]][[Image:Ani202MS.gif|32px]] 03:37, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:Incorrect. It depends on the definition, not the connotation that goes along with the given word(s). -[[Image:Spr 3e 186.gif|30px]][[User:Politoed666|ニョロトノ]][[User talk:Politoed666|''666'']][[Image:Spr 3e 186.gif|30px]] 03:39, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

What's the point in a defenition if it doesn't explain clearly the subject? [[User:GlinnMgraw|Glinn]][[Image:Ani202MS.gif|32px]] 03:44, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

absolutly, my old car was nicknamed "the powerhouse" but it was definatly not a pokemon! that being said, "powerhouse" is a general term, it sounds more like a metagame term than a true definition. i could load a powerful pokemon with powerful attacks, and ive got a powerhouse, but a psuedo-legendary means its special in some way, and what you are trying to appeal here is to somone whos never jheard the term before, and they will almost understand what psuedo-legendary just by the sound, where as a powerhouse requires an explanation. '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAG]][[User:MAGNEDETH#Interesting Stuff|NE]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|DETH]]''' 04:00, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
:I agree, powerhouse is too broad a term for these Pokémon. Pseudo-legendary fits the bill better. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]{{ani|155|Fire echy}}[[User:TTEchidna/GSDS|GSDS!]]''' 05:57, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

::First of all, my ''true'' gripe was with the contents of the article; redirecting the article to a new title was primarily symbolic of the reshifting of its underlying ideas. However, I would like to point out the irony in the statement that powerhouse is too broad a term spanning just about every overused Pokémon - the same can be said of pseudo-legendary, as evidenced by the fact that this article originally contained a separate list of Pokémon with legendary characteristics!

::Furthermore, I personally feel that ''pseudo-legendary'' should be used to describe only two Pokémon that are not even mentioned in the article: {{p|Unown}} and {{p|Phione}}. ''Legendary'' alludes to mystery and nature or universe-controlling abilities; this article deals with battle prowess, for which legendaries are certainly well known, but it takes second place to their aura. Besides, some legendaries are not as battle-competent as the pseudo-legendaries/powerhouses in the article - practically all tweleve members of the legendary trios, and arguably some others. This comparison holds in base stats (the legendary trio all have a total of 580, which is lower than 600), but even an in-depth comparison on a competitive level leads to the same conclusion, at least generally. Therefore, is it justified to attach the name ''pseudo-legendary'' to a definition that highlights the battle prowess of Pokémon that are actually stronger than some legendaries? On the other hand, Unown and Phione are indeed pseudo-legendary if the term is taken to mean a Pokémon whose aura is associated with a true legendary ({{p|Suicune}} in Unown's case and {{p|Manaphy}} in Phione's).

::But I digress, as I do agree that if ''pseudo-legendary'' is more frequently used by the fandom to describe the group in question, then it should be used for the purposes of discussing a fanon term.

::One last thing - I appreciate Politoed666's token of solidarity. I don't mind reversions to my own edits, especially when done by another sysop, but it isn't my idea of showing respect; it would have been better to wait a bit longer in case I had arguments to present. I only wonder why the same level of urgency was not taken to revise the contents of the article in its original format, when it obviously needed re-working. --[[User:Unown Lord|Unown Lord]] 13:55, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

I agree with certain points made by Unown Lord. Perhaps the overall issue with the term "pseudo-legendary" is the usage of "legendary." There are Pokémon that are "legendary" which do have certain exclusive characteristics, and applying the term to another group has its drawbacks. While the term may certain have specific applications to the pseudo-legendary Pokémon it is difficult to draw a completely defined line, contrary to the case with legendary Pokémon. The debate over which Pokémon "qualify" has no feasible ending point, as fans will always stick to their opinion concerning which ones "deserve" to be included. Sure, we have limits on Bulbapedia but in spite of this fact, there is still such an issue, as we can see from this very page. Honestly, I have no problem with the term, despite how vague it is and the supposed difficulty adhering to its guidelines. My wife on the other hand, disagrees with its usage for many of the reasons I mention. [[User:Deviant Audio|Deviant Audio]] 16:01, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

== Title Trouble ==

Uhh, guys, the title says Pseudo-legendary but the article is about powerhouses... --[[User:Manga-in-a-bottle|Manga-in-a-bottle]] 06:01, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
:It's what I was in the middle of fixing, then a million edit conflicts come up. Argh. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]{{ani|155|Fire echy}}[[User:TTEchidna/GSDS|GSDS!]]''' 06:09, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
::Oh... My bad.[[User:Pokemaniac102|Poke]][[User talk:Pokemaniac102|Maniac]][[Special:Contributions/Pokemaniac102|102]] 06:12, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

I tried editing it, but then edit-conflicts. Why were you doing one at a time? I could have done it in 30 seconds. :| [[User:GlinnMgraw|Glinn]][[Image:Ani202MS.gif|32px]] 06:12, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
:There were a lot. And I wanted to get some in before there was in edit conflict[[User:Pokemaniac102|Poke]][[User talk:Pokemaniac102|Maniac]][[Special:Contributions/Pokemaniac102|102]] 06:14, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
::hows about we make a note the page about how some people call it "powerhouse" '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAG]][[User:MAGNEDETH#Interesting Stuff|NE]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|DETH]]''' 18:52, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
:::Uh Uh Uh I guess.[[User:Pokemaniac102|Poke]][[User talk:Pokemaniac102|Maniac]][[Special:Contributions/Pokemaniac102|102]] 18:55, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

== Arcanine ==
Shouldn't Arcanine be classified as a powerhouse pokemon as well? [[User:Boywonder01|'''Boy''']][[User talk:Boywonder01|'''wonder''']][[Special:Contributions/Boywonder01|'''01''']] 10:05, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
:Powerhouse. Not pseudo-legendary. There's a difference: Porygon-Z's a powerhouse, Alakazam's a powerhouse. Their base stats in Special Attack are higher than the base stats of any other non-legendary's Attack or Special Attack, but they aren't pseudo-legendary. They aren't the final forms of end-of-dex Pokémon, they're just final forms of Pokémon that do really well in Special Attack. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]{{ani|155|Fire echy}}[[User:TTEchidna/GSDS|GSDS!]]''' 10:35, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
:: But the species is called '''legendary''', despite it isn't a legendary, so it is kind of a pseudo..., isn't it? And it has the highest sum of base-stats of all non-legendary under 600... So there would be good reasons to call it a pseudo-legendary. And by the way, if you search for the [[Powerhouse]]-Article you are redirected to this article, so either there is a need for a own article for the fanterm Powerhouse or Arcanine is truly a pseudo. --[[User:Blablubbb|Blablubbb]] 06:58, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

== 600 stat point total a requirement? ==

Doesn't that seem a little subjective? I mean sure they all have that but that doesn't mean a future Pokemon of similar psuedo-legend status will have that total. Plus with these Pokemon it could just be coincidence they all have 600. Having 600 total might have been how it happened for all of them, but I just don't seem it as a ''requirement'' per se. Just that that's how it happened. Toastypk 03:34, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
:Not really. The psuedo-legends were most likely designed so that their stats WOULD total 600. The only likely exception would be Dragonite due to Special Attack/Defence being a single stat in Generation 1, but it was probably reworked to total 600 in Generation 2. It's hardly likely to be coincedence that their base stats all total 600. - [[User:Nebula|Nebula]] 16:54, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
Hmm... well I've never paid attention to stat totals anyway, just relative strengths. Toastypk
::As I said above a base stat total of 600 is a requirement, not a coindidence. It is why they are called pseudo-legendaries, as many legendary pokemon have a bst of 600.--[[User:Hyurnat4|Hyurnat4]] 08:54, 11 November 2009 (UTC)--[[User:Hyurnat4|Hyurnat4]] 08:55, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Is it worth mentioning that Tyranitar, as of gen IV, technically has a total stats of 650?? (Due to its sand stream ability and the fact that Rock types get a x1.5 boost in S.Def in a sandstorm???) I know its not its true "Base" stats as such but even so I feel it should be mentioned [[User:PhantomCX|PhantomCX]] 12:59, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
:::Nebula, the psuedo-legends were not designed so that their stats would total 600, in fact psuedo-legends at all were not designed, it is just a made up term? [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 03:16, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

=={{p|Lucario}}==
Couldn't Lucario fit the pseudo-legendary description? [[User:Shadow1337|Shadow1337]] 23:37, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
:how? its nothing like a Pseudo in any way. -- '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAG]][[User:MAGNEDETH#Interesting Stuff|NE]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|DETH]]''' 23:42, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
::Well, for one thing pseudo-legendary ''by definition'' means false legendary. Lucario was once thought to be a legendary and has very similar stats. It even has higher stats than some of the legendaries.[[User:Shadow1337|Shadow1337]] 00:23, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
Pseudo-legendary is a term used to refer to any Pokémon that has a three-stage evolution line,
two types, as well as a base stat total of 600.
:::so, does Lucario fit any of those criteria? One. he has two-types. 1/3 doesnt cut it here. -- '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAG]][[User:MAGNEDETH#Interesting Stuff|NE]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|DETH]]''' 00:40, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
::::But if Lucario ever gets an evolution, its evolution could possibly be a pseudo-legendary. <big>[[user:chocolate|Cho]][[user talk:chocolate|col]][[special:contributions/chocolate|ate]]</big> 00:45, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
:::::No, it won't. Riolu is a baby pokemon evolves from happiness, which will likely separate it. Lucario won't get an evolution because it has too varied a moveset and too high stats.--[[User:Hyurnat4|Hyurnat4]] 08:58, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
:::::That's true.[[User:Shadow1337|Shadow1337]] 00:46, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
::::::not that it wont ever happen, but be rational. do you think Lucario will seriously get an evo? rationally, no. therefor, it is not (currently) a Pseudo-legendary. btw Chocolate, id appreciate it if you didnt edit my comments. if i wanted it like that, id have made it like that in the first place. -- '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAG]][[User:MAGNEDETH#Interesting Stuff|NE]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|DETH]]''' 00:55, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
:::::::What's more, speculating on whether an evolution of a Pokémon would be pseudo-legendary is hardly a good argument for calling Lucario one. [[User:GlinnMgraw|Glinn]] [[User_talk:GlinnMgraw|Mgraw]] 11:21, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
::::::::I consider Lucario a semi-legendary Pokémon. A few others i put in the group are Pokémon like Arcanine, Unown, Rotom, etc. --'''[[User:InuMimi|いぬ]][[User talk:InuMimi|みみ]]''' 23:14, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::they have legendary traits, but they are not legendaries. and far from pseudo-legendaries. -- '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAG]][[User:MAGNEDETH#Interesting Stuff|NE]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|DETH]]''' 23:20, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

::::::::::That's why I call them semi-legendaries; meaning they are kind of legendary. --'''[[User:InuMimi|いぬ]][[User talk:InuMimi|みみ]]''' 23:23, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

== [[Slaking (Pokémon)]] ==
Why is Slaking not a Psuedo? [[User:DragonTamer|DragonTamer]] 04:53, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
:Oohh, It's not dual type, [[User:DragonTamer|DragonTamer]] 04:55, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

== Inbalance ==

Too much trivia? Too little article? Can someone with experience in competitive gameplay edit it so that the trivia is not longer than the actual article? '''[[User:Optimatum|<sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Optimatum|Talk]]|[[User:Optimatum/sig/Pikachu|Links]] 12:30, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

== New table ==
'''Here:'''
{| align="center" style="background: #272727; -moz-border-radius: 10px; border: 5px solid #525252"
! colspan="2" style="background:#{{cynthia color light}}; -moz-border-radius-topleft: 5px;" | {{color2|272727|Generation I}}
! colspan="2" style="background:#{{cynthia color light}}" | {{color2|272727|Generation II}}
! colspan="4" style="background:#{{cynthia color light}}" | {{color2|272727|Generation III}}
! colspan="2" style="background:#{{cynthia color light}}; -moz-border-radius-topright: 5px;"| {{color2|272727|Generation IV}}
|- align="center"
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{kanto color light}}" | [[Image:149.png]] '''{{pcolor|Dragonite|{{kanto color dark}}}}'''
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{johto color light}}" | [[Image:248.png]] '''{{pcolor|Tyranitar|{{johto color dark}}}}'''
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{hoenn color light}}" | [[Image:373.png]] '''{{pcolor|Salamence|{{hoenn color dark}}}}'''
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{colo color light}}" | [[Image:376.png]] '''{{pcolor|Metagross|{{colo color dark}}}}'''
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{sinnoh color light}}" | [[Image:445.png]] '''{{pcolor|Garchomp|{{sinnoh color dark}}}}'''
|- align="center" style="font-size: 90%;"
| style="background:#{{dragon color}}" | {{typecolor|Dragon}}
| style="background:#{{flying color}}" | {{typecolor|Flying}}
| style="background:#{{rock color}}" | {{typecolor|Rock}}
| style="background:#{{dark color}}" | {{typecolor|Dark}}
| style="background:#{{dragon color}}" | {{typecolor|Dragon}}
| style="background:#{{flying color}}" | {{typecolor|Flying}}
| style="background:#{{steel color}}" | {{typecolor|Steel}}
| style="background:#{{psychic color}}" | {{typecolor|Psychic}}
| style="background:#{{dragon color}}" | {{typecolor|Dragon}}
| style="background:#{{ground color}}" | {{typecolor|Ground}}
|- align="center"
! colspan="10" align="center" style="background:#{{cynthia color light}}" | {{color|272727|Evolves from}}
|- align="center"
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{kanto color light}}" | [[Image:148.png]] {{pcolor|Dragonair|{{kanto color dark}}}}
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{johto color light}}" | [[Image:247.png]] {{pcolor|Pupitar|{{johto color dark}}}}
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{hoenn color light}}" | [[Image:372.png]] {{pcolor|Shelgon|{{hoenn color dark}}}}
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{colo color light}}" | [[Image:375.png]] {{pcolor|Metang|{{colo color dark}}}}
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{sinnoh color light}}" | [[Image:444.png]] {{pcolor|Gabite|{{sinnoh color dark}}}}
|- align="center" style="font-size: 90%;"
| style="background:#{{dragon color}}" colspan="2" | {{typecolor|Dragon}}
| style="background:#{{rock color}}" | {{typecolor|Rock}}
| style="background:#{{ground color}}" | {{typecolor|Ground}}
| style="background:#{{dragon color}}" colspan="2" | {{typecolor|Dragon}}
| style="background:#{{steel color}}" | {{typecolor|Steel}}
| style="background:#{{psychic color}}" | {{typecolor|Psychic}}
| style="background:#{{dragon color}}" | {{typecolor|Dragon}}
| style="background:#{{ground color}}" | {{typecolor|Ground}}
|- align="center"
! colspan="10" align="center" style="background:#{{cynthia color light}}" | {{color|272727|Evolves from}}
|- align="center"
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{kanto color light}}" | [[Image:147.png]] {{pcolor|Dratini|{{kanto color dark}}}}
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{johto color light}}" | [[Image:246.png]] {{pcolor|Larvitar|{{johto color dark}}}}
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{hoenn color light}}" | [[Image:371.png]] {{pcolor|Bagon|{{hoenn color dark}}}}
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{colo color light}}" | [[Image:374.png]] {{pcolor|Beldum|{{colo color dark}}}}
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{sinnoh color light}}" | [[Image:443.png]] {{pcolor|Gible|{{sinnoh color dark}}}}
|- align="center" style="font-size: 90%;"
| style="background:#{{dragon color}}; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft: 5px;" colspan="2" | {{typecolor|Dragon}}
| style="background:#{{rock color}}" | {{typecolor|Rock}}
| style="background:#{{ground color}}" | {{typecolor|Ground}}
| style="background:#{{dragon color}}" colspan="2" | {{typecolor|Dragon}}
| style="background:#{{steel color}}" | {{typecolor|Steel}}
| style="background:#{{psychic color}}" | {{typecolor|Psychic}}
| style="background:#{{dragon color}}" | {{typecolor|Dragon}}
| style="background:#{{ground color}}; -moz-border-radius-bottomright: 5px;" | {{typecolor|Ground}}
|}
*[[User:Tc26|tc]][[User talk:Tc26|26]]* 03:47, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

== Available only as their first form. ==

The article states that "Most pseudo-legendaries are obtainable in the wild strictly in their first form. However, Dragonair is also obtainable in the wild in most games where Dratini is (all but Pokémon Red, Green and Blue). Likewise, Pupitar is available in the wild in Crystal. Gabite is found in Victory Road in Platinum."

However, with the addition of Platinum, Gabite can be found in the wild. This means that no, only 2 out of the 5 of them are only found in their first form in the wild. I honestly don't think that something like that should be included in the article, since when was 2 out of 5 "most", or even noteworthy? You could say that all 5 of them have the colour blue on them somewhere, but is that noteworthy?

I'd have already removed it, but the page is protected. [[User:Ggled|Ggled]] 22:09, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
:There's no blue on either Dragonite or Larvitar, thus your entire logic is flawed! Good DAY, sir! :P In all seriousness though, you raise a good point. That part of the article definitely needs to be removed. --[[User:Dual|Dual]] 04:41, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
::Maybe he means a pokemon in the line has had the colour blue on them at some point? --[[User:Hyurnat4|Hyurnat4]] 09:01, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

== Kingdra ==

It doesn't fit the 600 total, (540 in case you were wondering) but it's dual type, it has 3 stages in the family, and it's at the end of the Pokedex. Sorry about bringing up another Pokemon [[User:BaconBoy|Corvy]] 12:25, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
:Kingdra isn't a pseudo-legendary. All qualities must be met. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 20:57, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

== Base Stat total trivia ==

On all the pseudo legendaries, there is a trivia entry stating that they have the second highest base stat total behind slaking. It then goes on to say how it's tied with the other pseudo legendaries etc etc.
Wouldn't it make more sense to just not have this? I mean there's already a link to the pseudo legendary page (here) at the top of the page, and it explains here that they all have the same base stat total etc. Just seems redundant to me and pointless trivia. [[User:Derian|[[Derian]]]] 14:23, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

== Stats ==

I don't know how you'd do it, but might it be useful to put stats on the final evolutions at some point.--[[User:Hyurnat4|Hyurnat4]] 09:04, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

== Question ==

Should the part about 600 stat total be changed to something like "at least 600"? Yes there is nothing like that now, but if in future generations something with 630 total ''does'' show up it would be better to be prepared now then argue about it when something comes up.--[[user:Mtn otter|Mtn otter]] We are the Void 14:13, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
:We'll sort that out when it happens. Bulbapedia deals with the present. Thanks anyway. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 04:42, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
::I highly doubt anyone would complain about whether or not something with above 600 counts or not... [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 14:43, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

== Garchomp's location in the pokedex ==

Stated in the characteristics section, it says that Garchomp's evolution line is not next to any notable pokemon. However, I disagree: Before Gible is Spiritomb, a pokemon that is considered semi-legendary by fans, since it can only be caught once under special conditions in the wild. Should we reword that sentence to include this information? {{Unsigned|AuraGaurdian}}

:Please remember to sign your posts with four tildes (~). [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 04:56, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

== Ash's Larvitar ==

It mentions in the trivia that Ash had only one member of the pseudo-legendary line, referencing his Gible, but at one point he had a Larvitar. Shouldn't this be mentioned in the article? --~~[[User_talk:AuraGaurdian|Aura]][[Special:Contributions/AuraGaurdian|Gaurdian]] 17:44, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
:Give the source and edit it to two. [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 20:23, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
::It's called [[Ash's Larvitar]] by the way. The trivia is actually referencing to his Larvitar but if you wanted to figure out a way of wording it you could say,"Ash is the only main character in the anime to own two different members of a pseudo-legendary family." or something along those lines. –'''[[User talk:MasterKenobi|Master]][[User:MasterKenobi|Kenobi]]''' 20:36, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
:::Gonna step in here quick and bring up that I think the reason why Gible is said to be Ash's only pseudo-legendary was because Larvitar was never technically ''his'', he was just temporarily taking care of it or whatnot. Its article is named as such for the sake of simplicity. [[User:Umeko|梅子]][[User talk:Umeko|❀]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|✿]] 20:41, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
::::If that is the case then why does its article call it Ash's? Are we going to need to move the article if it wasn't Ash's? [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 03:02, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
:::::From my previous comment on the matter:
::::::''Its article is named as such'' [ie. "Ash's Larvitar"] ''for the sake of simplicity''
:::::We can't very well call the article "the Larvitar that Ash took care of for about eight episodes but was never technically owned by him" or something. :P [[User:Umeko|梅子]][[User talk:Umeko|❀]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|✿]] 15:30, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
:::::::That may be true but it apparently isn't his, the page at least should not have that, Ash's current pokemon thing at the bottom or something [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 20:11, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
This discussion would better serve a purpose [[Talk:Ash's_Larvitar#Ash.27s_Larvitar|here]], so I am moving it there

== Addition of Charizard ==
I feel that Charizard is a pseudo-legendary. I think it should be added due to it's immense power. Feel free to respond. [[User:BrianPokemonTrainer|BrianPokemonTrainer]] 00:42, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
:Did.... you even read the article? Charizard does '''not''' fufill any of the requirements. It's not even that strong. ._. ▫▫'''[[User:Tina|ティナ]]'''[[User talk:Tina|♫]][[Special:Contributions/Tina|★]] 00:45, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
::Well... who decided the rules of this '''fluff''' term anyways? [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 02:57, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

== Kibago ==

Isn't kibago a Pseudo-legendary--[[User:lilkaykaygal|KayKay]]|[[User talk:Lilkaykaygal|Chat to me!]] 03:01, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Stats don't reach +600. Ononokusu may be faster and stronger than Gyarados, but a pseudo-legendary he is not.--[[User:Black Yin Zekrom|Black Yin Zekrom]] 03:08, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

==Dratini==
Awww, who removed part of my note in the trivia about how in the anime Dratini was specifically stated to be a legendary pokemon? [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 03:18, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

:That's like saying Arcanine should by a Pseudo-Legendary because "Legendary Pokemon" is in its title.{{unsigned|Bluekirbystar}}

::No I only said it should be psuedo-legendary because the anime stated it as a legendary? [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 14:01, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
:::This page is about the Pseudo-legendary classification used by fans, especially in regards to the metagame. It does NOT refer to Pokémon which are considered legendary in in-game text or other media, despite not having the rarity or strength of typical legendaries. Why can't anyone seem to understand that? --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] 15:26, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
::::It was just a note for the trivia, trivia rarely is extremely on-topic with the rest of the article, that is why it gets posted in the trivia and not the article itself. [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 16:31, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
:::::Wrong. Trivia must be "on topic". You wouldn't add trivia about how Lance's Dragonite in Gen. I knew Barrier here. Similarly, your trivia would belong in the Legendary Pokémon article, or Dratini's article, but not this article. --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] 16:50, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
::::::Wrong. I said ''extremely'' on-topic, the anime's classification of Dratini's status is ''moderately'' on-topic with a fluff term based on what the fans feel is Dratini's status. I never said trivia could be off-topic, I only said it didn't have to be ''extremely'' on-topic. [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 04:21, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

== Metagross is used in Gen V ==

Metagross is used by Lady Caitlin in the Isshu Elite Four rematch. {{unsigned|Bluekirbystar}}

== Ononokus ==

Isn't Ononokus a psuedo-legendary? It isn't near the end of the Pokedex, but then Garchomp isn't either. [[User:Taromon777|'''T a r o m o n''']] 11:33, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
:No base stats of 600 total. End of discussion.--[[User:Dennou Zenshi|でんのう]] ☢ [[User talk:Dennou Zenshi|'''Z'''えんし]] 11:39, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, right. I don't normally bother looking at stats... [[User:Taromon777|'''T a r o m o n''']] 08:40, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
::: You should look at stats; as it is one of the best indicators of which species make a group, or are version counterparts.{{unsigned|Eriorguez}}

== Two types really necessary? ==

I'd say the defining feature is the 600 BST. The page, in more than one place, describes the fact that pseudolegendaries have two types as though you couldn't, even in theory, have a pseudolegendary without it, but is that so? Obviously, all the pseudos that currently exist have two types (and we should mention that fact, don't get me wrong), but wouldn't we just adjust our definition if they (hypothetically) introduced a monotype pseudo in the sixth generation? I don't think we should "define" a pseudo as having two types; nor should we list that as one of the reasons Slaking isn't. --[[User:HeroicJay|HeroicJay]] 17:25, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
:Good point, don't two typers have more weaknesses usually? Not a very legendary trait... [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 03:43, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

== Ulgamoth ==

This may be shot down, but SURELY Ulgamoth is a pseudo-legendary. It may lack the Base Stats and Second Evolution, but it's clearly intended to be in the same tier. Its final evolution receives the EV yield of a Third-Stage pokemon, it comes right after Sazandorah, just like how Salamence and Metagross are placed next to each other (Garchomp was separated from legendaries by Evolutions from previous gens). It has significant mythology connected to it, and is obtained in peculiar ways, one of which is fashioned like a Legendary Encounter. It evolves at a ridiculously high level. Hell, the concept itself is that of something that would have a cocoon stage, but missed out on it somehow. The 550 Base Stat is peculiar, but surely can be put down to it having Butterfly Dance, an obscenely powerful move. Pretty much everything points it to being a counterpart with Sazandorah as the two pseudo-legendaries of Generation 5. [[User:N-Denizen|N-Denizen]] 23:30, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Talk:Pseudo-legendary Pokémon/Archive 1

2011-02-09T23:29:52Z

N-Denizen: /* Ulgamoth */ new section

==What???==
What??? Do we seriously need this??? --{{Ani|155}}{{Ani|476}}'''[[User:Theryguy512|Theryguy]][[User:Theryguy512/Contribution Page|5]][[User:Theryguy512/Mission Page|1]][[User:Theryguy512/Sandbox|2]]'''{{Ani|473}}[[Image:Trozeiani025.gif]] 20:06, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
:im not going to say its unnessecary, but "Psuedo-legendary" sounds really stupid. so, i think it should either be reworked or deleted. maybe just add to each pokemon's trivia section that they are near legendary or somthing. '''[[Image:Ani081MS.gif|35px]][[User:MAGNEDETH|MAGNEDETH]][[Image:Ani082MS.gif|35px]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|TA]][[User:MAGNEDETH/Riddles|RID]][[User:MAGNEDETH/new evolutions|NE]][[User:MAGNEDETH/do over|DO]][[User:MAGNEDETH/Pokemon teams|PT]][[Image:Ani462MS.gif|35px]]''' 20:12, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
:I say reworked[[Image:Ani386MS.gif]][[User:Pokemaniac102|'''''<big>P</big>o<big>k</big>e''''']][[Image:Ani386AMS.gif]][[User talk:Pokemaniac102|'''''<big>m</big>a<big>n</big>i<big>a</big>c''''']][[Image:Ani386DMS.gif]][[User:Pokemaniac102/Riddle|'''''<big>1</big>''''']][[User talk:Pokemaniac102/Riddle|'''''0''''']][[User:Pokemaniac102/Fanfic|'''''<big>2</big>''''']][[User:Pokemaniac102/Picto|'''''♪]][[User talk:Pokemaniac102/Picto|<big>♫</big>''''']][[Image:Ani386SMS.gif]] 20:16, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

:::Needs moar reworking. I'll add the cleanup sign.. [[User:Tina|Tina]] [[Special:Contributions/Tina|δ]][[User talk:Tina|♫]] 20:21, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

::::what should they be called then? or do yall think the anme is OK? '''[[Image:Ani081MS.gif|35px]][[User:MAGNEDETH|MAGNEDETH]][[Image:Ani082MS.gif|35px]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|TA]][[User:MAGNEDETH/Riddles|RID]][[User:MAGNEDETH/new evolutions|NE]][[User:MAGNEDETH/do over|DO]][[User:MAGNEDETH/Pokemon teams|PT]][[Image:Ani462MS.gif|35px]]''' 20:36, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
:::::What'ch ya tryin' to say huh!?[[Image:Ani386MS.gif]][[User:Pokemaniac102|'''''<big>P</big>o<big>k</big>e''''']][[Image:Ani386AMS.gif]][[User talk:Pokemaniac102|'''''<big>m</big>a<big>n</big>i<big>a</big>c''''']][[Image:Ani386DMS.gif]][[User:Pokemaniac102/Riddle|'''''<big>1</big>''''']][[User talk:Pokemaniac102/Riddle|'''''0''''']][[User:Pokemaniac102/Fanfic|'''''<big>2</big>''''']][[User:Pokemaniac102/Picto|'''''♪]][[User talk:Pokemaniac102/Picto|<big>♫</big>''''']][[Image:Ani386SMS.gif]] 20:38, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

:::::::Seems to me that this would an article if where was a "Competitive Battling Project" thing. I do believe I heard the term "Pseudo-legendary" at least once in some places such as Smogon... [[Image:Ani026MS.gif]][[User:Mudkipchan|Mudkipchan]][[Image:Ani392MS.gif]]

::::::::I heard it before. But that was when it was refering to the Groudon in jirachi movie

:::::::::They are all generally recognised as a set of unique pokemon with a few exceptions to each. (e.g. Garchomp's national pokedex number). However, the fan-term 'pseudo-legendary' in itself only actually refers to their final stages. (Dragonite, Tyranitar, Salamence, Metagross, Garchomp). Isn't this a bit inaccurate? --[[User:Hyurnat4|Hyurnat4]] 08:44, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

::::::::::Well in the anime, Dratini was specifically called a legendary pokemon in [[EP035|Legend of Dratini]] [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 20:35, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

== Flygon? ==

I thought only base 600s were psudeo legendary. Why is flygon here? [[User:The Placebo Effect|The Placebo Effect]] 02:52, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
:I'm not too sure either. o__O; [[User:Tina|Tina]] [[Special:Contributions/Tina|δ]][[User talk:Tina|♫]] 02:53, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
::It's a three-stage part-dragon type that can only be found in its first form. [[Image:Ani164MS.gif]][[User:Shiny Noctowl|S<big>h</big>i<big>n</big>y]] [[User talk:Shiny Noctowl|<big>N</big>o<big>c</big>t<big>o</big>w<big>l</big>]]  02:54, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
:::i dont think Flygon should be there, its just not rediculous enough '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAG]][[User:MAGNEDETH#Interesting Stuff|NE]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|DETH]]''' 02:55, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

== Dragonair? ==

CAn't you find wild dragonair in more than 1 game? [[User:The Placebo Effect|The Placebo Effect]] 03:19, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, FRLGRBYDP, But in DP you can find Pokéradar-ed Vibrava. So? [[Image:Ani197MS.gif]][[User:Midnight Celtic|Midnight Celtic]][[Image:Ani148MS.gif]] 03:21, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

:the fact of the matter is that Dragonite is def a psuedo-leg. '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAG]][[User:MAGNEDETH#Interesting Stuff|NE]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|DETH]]''' 03:24, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. [[Image:Ani197MS.gif]][[User:Midnight Celtic|Midnight Celtic]][[Image:Ani148MS.gif]] 03:25, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

== Aggron ==

What about Aggron? [[Image:Ani491MS.gif]][[User:Kpokefan|K]][[User talk:Kpokefan|P]][[User:Kpokefan/Missions|F]][[Image:Ani000MS.gif]] 04:37, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
:Aggron's UU, I believe. UU Pokémon wouldn't be psuedolegendary if they were in UU. :p [[User:Tina|Tina]] [[Special:Contributions/Tina|δ]][[User talk:Tina|♫]] 04:39, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
::may i ask what UU is? '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAG]][[User:MAGNEDETH#Interesting Stuff|NE]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|DETH]]''' 04:41, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
:::I think it means Under-used, as in List of Pokémon by Tier, which is fan-made[[User:Pokemaniac102|Poke]][[User talk:Pokemaniac102|Maniac]][[Special:Contributions/Pokemaniac102|102]] 04:45, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
::::Yep, under-used. It's fanmade. As is the term pseudolegendary. [[User:Tina|Tina]] [[Special:Contributions/Tina|δ]][[User talk:Tina|♫]] 04:46, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
:::::right, well, Aggron doesnt fit the bill because Lairon can be caught in Victory road, and apparently, thats against the rules...or somthing... '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAG]][[User:MAGNEDETH#Interesting Stuff|NE]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|DETH]]''' 04:47, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
::::::True.[[User:Pokemaniac102|Poke]][[User talk:Pokemaniac102|Maniac]][[Special:Contributions/Pokemaniac102|102]] 04:49, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
:::::::Wait a minute, you can catch Dragonair in the wild, so how is Lairon against the rules? [[Image:491.png|45px 45px]][[User:Kpokefan|'''K''']][[User talk:Kpokefan|'''P''']][[User:Kpokefan/Missions|'''F''']][[Image:Cal.png|30px 30px]] 02:45, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
::::::::Because Aggron's base stats don't total 600. - [[User:Nebula|Nebula]] 15:45, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::The true defintion of pseudo-legendary is a bst of 600 and a three-stage evolutionary line. Things like Dragonair and gabite being caught in the wild are merely trivial. As is the fact they all have one immunity etc. Aggron, Flygon and Kingdra are NOT pseudo-legendaries and never will be. P-Ls do not have to be dragon-type or dragonoid. --[[User:Hyurnat4|Hyurnat4]] 08:50, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

== Real definition for psuedo-legendary ==

Isn't it a BST of 600? [[User:The Placebo Effect|The Placebo Effect]] 13:12, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

== Pseudo-legendary --> Powerhouse ==

It seems to me that everyone who commented on this page, other than Shiny Noctowl, was dumbfounded as to the article's title and definition therein. For pages dealing with fanon terminology, this is a good sign that something has been done '''wrong'''; fanon terms are ''necessarily'' known to a large number of fans, as opposed to a select few, or in this case - no more than one.

Furthemore, the page (prior to my editing it) included mentions of Pokémon with legendary characteristics, despite their having nothing to do with the suggested definiton of pseudo-legendary. It was also a mere copy-and-paste of the corresponding section on the [[Legendary]] page. Now, as for the definition itself, it should be crystal-clear that the powerhouses, as defined by myself, are ''distinct'' in their categorization from any other Pokémon ({{p|Flygon}}, for the sake of discussion). Simply put, they are non-legendary Pokémon whose total base stats is 600, which is a great deal higher than Flygon's 520 (see the trivia paragraph for clarification on {{p|Slaking}}). Besides, what makes Flygon any more special than {{p|Aggron}}, {{p|Walrein}} and the 7 fully-evolved, two-typed starters? All of these match the definition used by Shiny Noctowl. I do hope that competitive usage is not the reason, because {{p|Swampert}} and {{p|Infernape}} clearly outweigh Flygon in that regard.

It amazes me that everyone assumed that the definition was acceptable simply because someone had put it forth. Bulbapedia encourages critical thinking and sets virtually no limits on the users' capacity to edit existing pages. Why was I the only one who had the fortitude to replace the previous definition with one that is actually used by the fandom? --[[User:Unown Lord|Unown Lord]] 16:47, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
:Mudkipchan apparently heard pseudo-legendary on Smogon, and I've heard pseudo-legendary on several websites, so I think it should be moved back. I agree, though, that the definition needed some work. But why remove Flygon? Its stats are slightly lower, but base stats shouldn't be included in the definition. Other than base stats, Flygon is in every way a pseudo-legendary. [[Image:Ani164MS.gif]][[User:Shiny Noctowl|S<big>h</big>i<big>n</big>y]] [[User talk:Shiny Noctowl|<big>N</big>o<big>c</big>t<big>o</big>w<big>l</big>]]  13:57, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

::You can see my comments on the article's name further below. Now, the explanation for my excluding Flygon should be quite obvious from the pieces of trivia; Dragonite, Tyranitar, Salamence, Metagross and Garchomp have more in common than what you listed in your definition, and in fact, they have more in common than just my addition to that definition (a total base stats of 600). Flygon does not share that common denominator; what it does share with the aforementioned five is also shared by ''at the very least'' Walrein and Aggron, who are part of a three-stage line, have two types, require nearly as much experience to reach their form, and have an even higher total of base stats (530). If the only reason for which you included Flygon but excluded those two is that you thought only Flygon was available strictly in its first form, then you thought wrong: In Generation III Sealeo and Walrein are also not available in the wild; in Generation IV both Vibrava and Sealeo are available (incidentally, Lairon is not).

::But all of that is irrelevant, since neither Flygon nor Walrein (nor Aggron, for that matter) has enough in common with the powerhouses/pseudo-legendaries so as to be added to the group. It is enough to require a total base stats of 600 to limit the group to the five relevant ones (a respectable addition in and of itself), but again, their common denominator is even greater than that. Look at the trivia and see it for yourself. --[[User:Unown Lord|Unown Lord]] 13:55, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

I agree with Shiny, Pseudo-Legendary makes more sense. I.E. My Snorlax is a powerhouse, but it isn't a pseudo-legendary. My Flygon is not my powerhouse, yet it is a pseudo-legendary. Catch my drift? [[Image:Ani197MS.gif]][[User:Midnight Celtic|Midnight Celtic]][[Image:Ani148MS.gif]] 15:28, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
:Psudo legendary should be used. But the only pokemon that should meet this criteria are those 3 stage evos with a base stat of 600. Slaking is questionable, but I would say no to it, as well as flygon. [[User:The Placebo Effect|The Placebo Effect]] 01:08, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

::I'm with {{u|Unown Lord}}. Take it or leave it. -[[Image:Spr 3e 186.gif|30px]][[User:Politoed666|ニョロトノ]][[User talk:Politoed666|''666'']][[Image:Spr 3e 186.gif|30px]] 03:29, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:::i agree with Placebo, though i think Slaking might be in. but not Flygon. '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAG]][[User:MAGNEDETH#Interesting Stuff|NE]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|DETH]]''' 03:31, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

I think Midnight Celtic makes a good point, powerhouse can mean ANY strong Pokémon, where as Psuedo-legendary makes a clear point. [[User:GlinnMgraw|Glinn]][[Image:Ani202MS.gif|32px]] 03:37, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:Incorrect. It depends on the definition, not the connotation that goes along with the given word(s). -[[Image:Spr 3e 186.gif|30px]][[User:Politoed666|ニョロトノ]][[User talk:Politoed666|''666'']][[Image:Spr 3e 186.gif|30px]] 03:39, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

What's the point in a defenition if it doesn't explain clearly the subject? [[User:GlinnMgraw|Glinn]][[Image:Ani202MS.gif|32px]] 03:44, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

absolutly, my old car was nicknamed "the powerhouse" but it was definatly not a pokemon! that being said, "powerhouse" is a general term, it sounds more like a metagame term than a true definition. i could load a powerful pokemon with powerful attacks, and ive got a powerhouse, but a psuedo-legendary means its special in some way, and what you are trying to appeal here is to somone whos never jheard the term before, and they will almost understand what psuedo-legendary just by the sound, where as a powerhouse requires an explanation. '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAG]][[User:MAGNEDETH#Interesting Stuff|NE]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|DETH]]''' 04:00, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
:I agree, powerhouse is too broad a term for these Pokémon. Pseudo-legendary fits the bill better. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]{{ani|155|Fire echy}}[[User:TTEchidna/GSDS|GSDS!]]''' 05:57, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

::First of all, my ''true'' gripe was with the contents of the article; redirecting the article to a new title was primarily symbolic of the reshifting of its underlying ideas. However, I would like to point out the irony in the statement that powerhouse is too broad a term spanning just about every overused Pokémon - the same can be said of pseudo-legendary, as evidenced by the fact that this article originally contained a separate list of Pokémon with legendary characteristics!

::Furthermore, I personally feel that ''pseudo-legendary'' should be used to describe only two Pokémon that are not even mentioned in the article: {{p|Unown}} and {{p|Phione}}. ''Legendary'' alludes to mystery and nature or universe-controlling abilities; this article deals with battle prowess, for which legendaries are certainly well known, but it takes second place to their aura. Besides, some legendaries are not as battle-competent as the pseudo-legendaries/powerhouses in the article - practically all tweleve members of the legendary trios, and arguably some others. This comparison holds in base stats (the legendary trio all have a total of 580, which is lower than 600), but even an in-depth comparison on a competitive level leads to the same conclusion, at least generally. Therefore, is it justified to attach the name ''pseudo-legendary'' to a definition that highlights the battle prowess of Pokémon that are actually stronger than some legendaries? On the other hand, Unown and Phione are indeed pseudo-legendary if the term is taken to mean a Pokémon whose aura is associated with a true legendary ({{p|Suicune}} in Unown's case and {{p|Manaphy}} in Phione's).

::But I digress, as I do agree that if ''pseudo-legendary'' is more frequently used by the fandom to describe the group in question, then it should be used for the purposes of discussing a fanon term.

::One last thing - I appreciate Politoed666's token of solidarity. I don't mind reversions to my own edits, especially when done by another sysop, but it isn't my idea of showing respect; it would have been better to wait a bit longer in case I had arguments to present. I only wonder why the same level of urgency was not taken to revise the contents of the article in its original format, when it obviously needed re-working. --[[User:Unown Lord|Unown Lord]] 13:55, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

I agree with certain points made by Unown Lord. Perhaps the overall issue with the term "pseudo-legendary" is the usage of "legendary." There are Pokémon that are "legendary" which do have certain exclusive characteristics, and applying the term to another group has its drawbacks. While the term may certain have specific applications to the pseudo-legendary Pokémon it is difficult to draw a completely defined line, contrary to the case with legendary Pokémon. The debate over which Pokémon "qualify" has no feasible ending point, as fans will always stick to their opinion concerning which ones "deserve" to be included. Sure, we have limits on Bulbapedia but in spite of this fact, there is still such an issue, as we can see from this very page. Honestly, I have no problem with the term, despite how vague it is and the supposed difficulty adhering to its guidelines. My wife on the other hand, disagrees with its usage for many of the reasons I mention. [[User:Deviant Audio|Deviant Audio]] 16:01, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

== Title Trouble ==

Uhh, guys, the title says Pseudo-legendary but the article is about powerhouses... --[[User:Manga-in-a-bottle|Manga-in-a-bottle]] 06:01, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
:It's what I was in the middle of fixing, then a million edit conflicts come up. Argh. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]{{ani|155|Fire echy}}[[User:TTEchidna/GSDS|GSDS!]]''' 06:09, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
::Oh... My bad.[[User:Pokemaniac102|Poke]][[User talk:Pokemaniac102|Maniac]][[Special:Contributions/Pokemaniac102|102]] 06:12, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

I tried editing it, but then edit-conflicts. Why were you doing one at a time? I could have done it in 30 seconds. :| [[User:GlinnMgraw|Glinn]][[Image:Ani202MS.gif|32px]] 06:12, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
:There were a lot. And I wanted to get some in before there was in edit conflict[[User:Pokemaniac102|Poke]][[User talk:Pokemaniac102|Maniac]][[Special:Contributions/Pokemaniac102|102]] 06:14, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
::hows about we make a note the page about how some people call it "powerhouse" '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAG]][[User:MAGNEDETH#Interesting Stuff|NE]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|DETH]]''' 18:52, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
:::Uh Uh Uh I guess.[[User:Pokemaniac102|Poke]][[User talk:Pokemaniac102|Maniac]][[Special:Contributions/Pokemaniac102|102]] 18:55, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

== Arcanine ==
Shouldn't Arcanine be classified as a powerhouse pokemon as well? [[User:Boywonder01|'''Boy''']][[User talk:Boywonder01|'''wonder''']][[Special:Contributions/Boywonder01|'''01''']] 10:05, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
:Powerhouse. Not pseudo-legendary. There's a difference: Porygon-Z's a powerhouse, Alakazam's a powerhouse. Their base stats in Special Attack are higher than the base stats of any other non-legendary's Attack or Special Attack, but they aren't pseudo-legendary. They aren't the final forms of end-of-dex Pokémon, they're just final forms of Pokémon that do really well in Special Attack. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]{{ani|155|Fire echy}}[[User:TTEchidna/GSDS|GSDS!]]''' 10:35, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
:: But the species is called '''legendary''', despite it isn't a legendary, so it is kind of a pseudo..., isn't it? And it has the highest sum of base-stats of all non-legendary under 600... So there would be good reasons to call it a pseudo-legendary. And by the way, if you search for the [[Powerhouse]]-Article you are redirected to this article, so either there is a need for a own article for the fanterm Powerhouse or Arcanine is truly a pseudo. --[[User:Blablubbb|Blablubbb]] 06:58, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

== 600 stat point total a requirement? ==

Doesn't that seem a little subjective? I mean sure they all have that but that doesn't mean a future Pokemon of similar psuedo-legend status will have that total. Plus with these Pokemon it could just be coincidence they all have 600. Having 600 total might have been how it happened for all of them, but I just don't seem it as a ''requirement'' per se. Just that that's how it happened. Toastypk 03:34, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
:Not really. The psuedo-legends were most likely designed so that their stats WOULD total 600. The only likely exception would be Dragonite due to Special Attack/Defence being a single stat in Generation 1, but it was probably reworked to total 600 in Generation 2. It's hardly likely to be coincedence that their base stats all total 600. - [[User:Nebula|Nebula]] 16:54, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
Hmm... well I've never paid attention to stat totals anyway, just relative strengths. Toastypk
::As I said above a base stat total of 600 is a requirement, not a coindidence. It is why they are called pseudo-legendaries, as many legendary pokemon have a bst of 600.--[[User:Hyurnat4|Hyurnat4]] 08:54, 11 November 2009 (UTC)--[[User:Hyurnat4|Hyurnat4]] 08:55, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Is it worth mentioning that Tyranitar, as of gen IV, technically has a total stats of 650?? (Due to its sand stream ability and the fact that Rock types get a x1.5 boost in S.Def in a sandstorm???) I know its not its true "Base" stats as such but even so I feel it should be mentioned [[User:PhantomCX|PhantomCX]] 12:59, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
:::Nebula, the psuedo-legends were not designed so that their stats would total 600, in fact psuedo-legends at all were not designed, it is just a made up term? [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 03:16, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

=={{p|Lucario}}==
Couldn't Lucario fit the pseudo-legendary description? [[User:Shadow1337|Shadow1337]] 23:37, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
:how? its nothing like a Pseudo in any way. -- '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAG]][[User:MAGNEDETH#Interesting Stuff|NE]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|DETH]]''' 23:42, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
::Well, for one thing pseudo-legendary ''by definition'' means false legendary. Lucario was once thought to be a legendary and has very similar stats. It even has higher stats than some of the legendaries.[[User:Shadow1337|Shadow1337]] 00:23, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
Pseudo-legendary is a term used to refer to any Pokémon that has a three-stage evolution line,
two types, as well as a base stat total of 600.
:::so, does Lucario fit any of those criteria? One. he has two-types. 1/3 doesnt cut it here. -- '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAG]][[User:MAGNEDETH#Interesting Stuff|NE]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|DETH]]''' 00:40, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
::::But if Lucario ever gets an evolution, its evolution could possibly be a pseudo-legendary. <big>[[user:chocolate|Cho]][[user talk:chocolate|col]][[special:contributions/chocolate|ate]]</big> 00:45, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
:::::No, it won't. Riolu is a baby pokemon evolves from happiness, which will likely separate it. Lucario won't get an evolution because it has too varied a moveset and too high stats.--[[User:Hyurnat4|Hyurnat4]] 08:58, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
:::::That's true.[[User:Shadow1337|Shadow1337]] 00:46, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
::::::not that it wont ever happen, but be rational. do you think Lucario will seriously get an evo? rationally, no. therefor, it is not (currently) a Pseudo-legendary. btw Chocolate, id appreciate it if you didnt edit my comments. if i wanted it like that, id have made it like that in the first place. -- '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAG]][[User:MAGNEDETH#Interesting Stuff|NE]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|DETH]]''' 00:55, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
:::::::What's more, speculating on whether an evolution of a Pokémon would be pseudo-legendary is hardly a good argument for calling Lucario one. [[User:GlinnMgraw|Glinn]] [[User_talk:GlinnMgraw|Mgraw]] 11:21, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
::::::::I consider Lucario a semi-legendary Pokémon. A few others i put in the group are Pokémon like Arcanine, Unown, Rotom, etc. --'''[[User:InuMimi|いぬ]][[User talk:InuMimi|みみ]]''' 23:14, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::they have legendary traits, but they are not legendaries. and far from pseudo-legendaries. -- '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAG]][[User:MAGNEDETH#Interesting Stuff|NE]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|DETH]]''' 23:20, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

::::::::::That's why I call them semi-legendaries; meaning they are kind of legendary. --'''[[User:InuMimi|いぬ]][[User talk:InuMimi|みみ]]''' 23:23, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

== [[Slaking (Pokémon)]] ==
Why is Slaking not a Psuedo? [[User:DragonTamer|DragonTamer]] 04:53, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
:Oohh, It's not dual type, [[User:DragonTamer|DragonTamer]] 04:55, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

== Inbalance ==

Too much trivia? Too little article? Can someone with experience in competitive gameplay edit it so that the trivia is not longer than the actual article? '''[[User:Optimatum|<sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Optimatum|Talk]]|[[User:Optimatum/sig/Pikachu|Links]] 12:30, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

== New table ==
'''Here:'''
{| align="center" style="background: #272727; -moz-border-radius: 10px; border: 5px solid #525252"
! colspan="2" style="background:#{{cynthia color light}}; -moz-border-radius-topleft: 5px;" | {{color2|272727|Generation I}}
! colspan="2" style="background:#{{cynthia color light}}" | {{color2|272727|Generation II}}
! colspan="4" style="background:#{{cynthia color light}}" | {{color2|272727|Generation III}}
! colspan="2" style="background:#{{cynthia color light}}; -moz-border-radius-topright: 5px;"| {{color2|272727|Generation IV}}
|- align="center"
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{kanto color light}}" | [[Image:149.png]] '''{{pcolor|Dragonite|{{kanto color dark}}}}'''
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{johto color light}}" | [[Image:248.png]] '''{{pcolor|Tyranitar|{{johto color dark}}}}'''
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{hoenn color light}}" | [[Image:373.png]] '''{{pcolor|Salamence|{{hoenn color dark}}}}'''
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{colo color light}}" | [[Image:376.png]] '''{{pcolor|Metagross|{{colo color dark}}}}'''
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{sinnoh color light}}" | [[Image:445.png]] '''{{pcolor|Garchomp|{{sinnoh color dark}}}}'''
|- align="center" style="font-size: 90%;"
| style="background:#{{dragon color}}" | {{typecolor|Dragon}}
| style="background:#{{flying color}}" | {{typecolor|Flying}}
| style="background:#{{rock color}}" | {{typecolor|Rock}}
| style="background:#{{dark color}}" | {{typecolor|Dark}}
| style="background:#{{dragon color}}" | {{typecolor|Dragon}}
| style="background:#{{flying color}}" | {{typecolor|Flying}}
| style="background:#{{steel color}}" | {{typecolor|Steel}}
| style="background:#{{psychic color}}" | {{typecolor|Psychic}}
| style="background:#{{dragon color}}" | {{typecolor|Dragon}}
| style="background:#{{ground color}}" | {{typecolor|Ground}}
|- align="center"
! colspan="10" align="center" style="background:#{{cynthia color light}}" | {{color|272727|Evolves from}}
|- align="center"
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{kanto color light}}" | [[Image:148.png]] {{pcolor|Dragonair|{{kanto color dark}}}}
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{johto color light}}" | [[Image:247.png]] {{pcolor|Pupitar|{{johto color dark}}}}
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{hoenn color light}}" | [[Image:372.png]] {{pcolor|Shelgon|{{hoenn color dark}}}}
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{colo color light}}" | [[Image:375.png]] {{pcolor|Metang|{{colo color dark}}}}
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{sinnoh color light}}" | [[Image:444.png]] {{pcolor|Gabite|{{sinnoh color dark}}}}
|- align="center" style="font-size: 90%;"
| style="background:#{{dragon color}}" colspan="2" | {{typecolor|Dragon}}
| style="background:#{{rock color}}" | {{typecolor|Rock}}
| style="background:#{{ground color}}" | {{typecolor|Ground}}
| style="background:#{{dragon color}}" colspan="2" | {{typecolor|Dragon}}
| style="background:#{{steel color}}" | {{typecolor|Steel}}
| style="background:#{{psychic color}}" | {{typecolor|Psychic}}
| style="background:#{{dragon color}}" | {{typecolor|Dragon}}
| style="background:#{{ground color}}" | {{typecolor|Ground}}
|- align="center"
! colspan="10" align="center" style="background:#{{cynthia color light}}" | {{color|272727|Evolves from}}
|- align="center"
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{kanto color light}}" | [[Image:147.png]] {{pcolor|Dratini|{{kanto color dark}}}}
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{johto color light}}" | [[Image:246.png]] {{pcolor|Larvitar|{{johto color dark}}}}
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{hoenn color light}}" | [[Image:371.png]] {{pcolor|Bagon|{{hoenn color dark}}}}
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{colo color light}}" | [[Image:374.png]] {{pcolor|Beldum|{{colo color dark}}}}
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{sinnoh color light}}" | [[Image:443.png]] {{pcolor|Gible|{{sinnoh color dark}}}}
|- align="center" style="font-size: 90%;"
| style="background:#{{dragon color}}; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft: 5px;" colspan="2" | {{typecolor|Dragon}}
| style="background:#{{rock color}}" | {{typecolor|Rock}}
| style="background:#{{ground color}}" | {{typecolor|Ground}}
| style="background:#{{dragon color}}" colspan="2" | {{typecolor|Dragon}}
| style="background:#{{steel color}}" | {{typecolor|Steel}}
| style="background:#{{psychic color}}" | {{typecolor|Psychic}}
| style="background:#{{dragon color}}" | {{typecolor|Dragon}}
| style="background:#{{ground color}}; -moz-border-radius-bottomright: 5px;" | {{typecolor|Ground}}
|}
*[[User:Tc26|tc]][[User talk:Tc26|26]]* 03:47, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

== Available only as their first form. ==

The article states that "Most pseudo-legendaries are obtainable in the wild strictly in their first form. However, Dragonair is also obtainable in the wild in most games where Dratini is (all but Pokémon Red, Green and Blue). Likewise, Pupitar is available in the wild in Crystal. Gabite is found in Victory Road in Platinum."

However, with the addition of Platinum, Gabite can be found in the wild. This means that no, only 2 out of the 5 of them are only found in their first form in the wild. I honestly don't think that something like that should be included in the article, since when was 2 out of 5 "most", or even noteworthy? You could say that all 5 of them have the colour blue on them somewhere, but is that noteworthy?

I'd have already removed it, but the page is protected. [[User:Ggled|Ggled]] 22:09, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
:There's no blue on either Dragonite or Larvitar, thus your entire logic is flawed! Good DAY, sir! :P In all seriousness though, you raise a good point. That part of the article definitely needs to be removed. --[[User:Dual|Dual]] 04:41, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
::Maybe he means a pokemon in the line has had the colour blue on them at some point? --[[User:Hyurnat4|Hyurnat4]] 09:01, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

== Kingdra ==

It doesn't fit the 600 total, (540 in case you were wondering) but it's dual type, it has 3 stages in the family, and it's at the end of the Pokedex. Sorry about bringing up another Pokemon [[User:BaconBoy|Corvy]] 12:25, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
:Kingdra isn't a pseudo-legendary. All qualities must be met. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 20:57, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

== Base Stat total trivia ==

On all the pseudo legendaries, there is a trivia entry stating that they have the second highest base stat total behind slaking. It then goes on to say how it's tied with the other pseudo legendaries etc etc.
Wouldn't it make more sense to just not have this? I mean there's already a link to the pseudo legendary page (here) at the top of the page, and it explains here that they all have the same base stat total etc. Just seems redundant to me and pointless trivia. [[User:Derian|[[Derian]]]] 14:23, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

== Stats ==

I don't know how you'd do it, but might it be useful to put stats on the final evolutions at some point.--[[User:Hyurnat4|Hyurnat4]] 09:04, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

== Question ==

Should the part about 600 stat total be changed to something like "at least 600"? Yes there is nothing like that now, but if in future generations something with 630 total ''does'' show up it would be better to be prepared now then argue about it when something comes up.--[[user:Mtn otter|Mtn otter]] We are the Void 14:13, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
:We'll sort that out when it happens. Bulbapedia deals with the present. Thanks anyway. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 04:42, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
::I highly doubt anyone would complain about whether or not something with above 600 counts or not... [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 14:43, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

== Garchomp's location in the pokedex ==

Stated in the characteristics section, it says that Garchomp's evolution line is not next to any notable pokemon. However, I disagree: Before Gible is Spiritomb, a pokemon that is considered semi-legendary by fans, since it can only be caught once under special conditions in the wild. Should we reword that sentence to include this information? {{Unsigned|AuraGaurdian}}

:Please remember to sign your posts with four tildes (~). [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 04:56, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

== Ash's Larvitar ==

It mentions in the trivia that Ash had only one member of the pseudo-legendary line, referencing his Gible, but at one point he had a Larvitar. Shouldn't this be mentioned in the article? --~~[[User_talk:AuraGaurdian|Aura]][[Special:Contributions/AuraGaurdian|Gaurdian]] 17:44, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
:Give the source and edit it to two. [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 20:23, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
::It's called [[Ash's Larvitar]] by the way. The trivia is actually referencing to his Larvitar but if you wanted to figure out a way of wording it you could say,"Ash is the only main character in the anime to own two different members of a pseudo-legendary family." or something along those lines. –'''[[User talk:MasterKenobi|Master]][[User:MasterKenobi|Kenobi]]''' 20:36, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
:::Gonna step in here quick and bring up that I think the reason why Gible is said to be Ash's only pseudo-legendary was because Larvitar was never technically ''his'', he was just temporarily taking care of it or whatnot. Its article is named as such for the sake of simplicity. [[User:Umeko|梅子]][[User talk:Umeko|❀]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|✿]] 20:41, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
::::If that is the case then why does its article call it Ash's? Are we going to need to move the article if it wasn't Ash's? [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 03:02, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
:::::From my previous comment on the matter:
::::::''Its article is named as such'' [ie. "Ash's Larvitar"] ''for the sake of simplicity''
:::::We can't very well call the article "the Larvitar that Ash took care of for about eight episodes but was never technically owned by him" or something. :P [[User:Umeko|梅子]][[User talk:Umeko|❀]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|✿]] 15:30, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
:::::::That may be true but it apparently isn't his, the page at least should not have that, Ash's current pokemon thing at the bottom or something [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 20:11, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
This discussion would better serve a purpose [[Talk:Ash's_Larvitar#Ash.27s_Larvitar|here]], so I am moving it there

== Addition of Charizard ==
I feel that Charizard is a pseudo-legendary. I think it should be added due to it's immense power. Feel free to respond. [[User:BrianPokemonTrainer|BrianPokemonTrainer]] 00:42, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
:Did.... you even read the article? Charizard does '''not''' fufill any of the requirements. It's not even that strong. ._. ▫▫'''[[User:Tina|ティナ]]'''[[User talk:Tina|♫]][[Special:Contributions/Tina|★]] 00:45, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
::Well... who decided the rules of this '''fluff''' term anyways? [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 02:57, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

== Kibago ==

Isn't kibago a Pseudo-legendary--[[User:lilkaykaygal|KayKay]]|[[User talk:Lilkaykaygal|Chat to me!]] 03:01, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Stats don't reach +600. Ononokusu may be faster and stronger than Gyarados, but a pseudo-legendary he is not.--[[User:Black Yin Zekrom|Black Yin Zekrom]] 03:08, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

==Dratini==
Awww, who removed part of my note in the trivia about how in the anime Dratini was specifically stated to be a legendary pokemon? [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 03:18, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

:That's like saying Arcanine should by a Pseudo-Legendary because "Legendary Pokemon" is in its title.{{unsigned|Bluekirbystar}}

::No I only said it should be psuedo-legendary because the anime stated it as a legendary? [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 14:01, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
:::This page is about the Pseudo-legendary classification used by fans, especially in regards to the metagame. It does NOT refer to Pokémon which are considered legendary in in-game text or other media, despite not having the rarity or strength of typical legendaries. Why can't anyone seem to understand that? --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] 15:26, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
::::It was just a note for the trivia, trivia rarely is extremely on-topic with the rest of the article, that is why it gets posted in the trivia and not the article itself. [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 16:31, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
:::::Wrong. Trivia must be "on topic". You wouldn't add trivia about how Lance's Dragonite in Gen. I knew Barrier here. Similarly, your trivia would belong in the Legendary Pokémon article, or Dratini's article, but not this article. --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] 16:50, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
::::::Wrong. I said ''extremely'' on-topic, the anime's classification of Dratini's status is ''moderately'' on-topic with a fluff term based on what the fans feel is Dratini's status. I never said trivia could be off-topic, I only said it didn't have to be ''extremely'' on-topic. [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 04:21, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

== Metagross is used in Gen V ==

Metagross is used by Lady Caitlin in the Isshu Elite Four rematch. {{unsigned|Bluekirbystar}}

== Ononokus ==

Isn't Ononokus a psuedo-legendary? It isn't near the end of the Pokedex, but then Garchomp isn't either. [[User:Taromon777|'''T a r o m o n''']] 11:33, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
:No base stats of 600 total. End of discussion.--[[User:Dennou Zenshi|でんのう]] ☢ [[User talk:Dennou Zenshi|'''Z'''えんし]] 11:39, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, right. I don't normally bother looking at stats... [[User:Taromon777|'''T a r o m o n''']] 08:40, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
::: You should look at stats; as it is one of the best indicators of which species make a group, or are version counterparts.{{unsigned|Eriorguez}}

== Two types really necessary? ==

I'd say the defining feature is the 600 BST. The page, in more than one place, describes the fact that pseudolegendaries have two types as though you couldn't, even in theory, have a pseudolegendary without it, but is that so? Obviously, all the pseudos that currently exist have two types (and we should mention that fact, don't get me wrong), but wouldn't we just adjust our definition if they (hypothetically) introduced a monotype pseudo in the sixth generation? I don't think we should "define" a pseudo as having two types; nor should we list that as one of the reasons Slaking isn't. --[[User:HeroicJay|HeroicJay]] 17:25, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
:Good point, don't two typers have more weaknesses usually? Not a very legendary trait... [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 03:43, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

== Ulgamoth ==

This may be shot down, but SURELY Ulgamoth is a pseudo-legendary. It may lack the Base Stats and Second Evolution, but it's clearly intended to be in the same tier. Its final evolution receives the EV yield of a Third-Stage pokemon, it comes right after Sazandorah, just like how Salamence and Metagross are placed next to each other (Garchomp was separated from legendaries by Evolutions from previous gens). It has significant mythology connected to it, and is obtained in peculiar ways, one of which is fashioned like a Legendary Encounter. It evolves at a ridiculously high level. Hell, the concept itself is that of something that would have a cocoon stage, but missed out on it somehow. The 550 Base Stat is peculiar, but surely can be put down to it having Butterfly Dance, an obscenely powerful move. Pretty much everything points it to being a counterpart with Sazandorah as the two pseudo-legendaries of Generation 5.

Talk:F.E.A.R.

2011-01-26T16:44:04Z

N-Denizen: /* Gen V */

Well I did some major revisions to the article - I'm hoping someone will give me the OK to remove the cleanup tag. [[User:Kochdude388|Kochdude388]] 04:19, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

:According to Marriland's F.A.Q. on the video, "F.E.A.R." also stands for "F@#king Evil Annoying Rodent". If someone could figure out a family-friendly way of saying that on the main article, I think it's a major part of the original name... -- [[user:Jioruji Derako|'''J'''ioruji '''D'''erako.'''>''']] 13:04, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

:How about Freaky Evil Annoying Rodent? [[User:MacGyver|MacGyver]] 16:34, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

How does the Marrilanad vid apply to the article? I know he uses FEAR in that vid, but still... Its like advertising for Marriladnd. Which isn't encyclopedic.

:Marriland is/was a big factor on the popularity of the archetype, I believe. It's not just a random link to some guy using F.E.A.R., it's a link to the most popular video of all time that just happens to use F.E.A.R. in it. Advertising for a guy isn't Wiki-like, true; but giving at least one source for a particular bit of knowledge ''is''. I personally don't see the link as much of an "advertisement" in the first place... -- [[user:Jioruji Derako|'''J'''ioruji '''D'''erako.'''>''']] 04:43, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
::It's there because that is the battle that made F.E.A.R famous. --[[User:Shiny Noctowl|Shiny Noctowl]] ---[[User:Shiny Noctowl#The Secret Page|Find the secret page!]]--- 12:15, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Its advertising for him, they could make a list of noteable trainers with FEAR, but it is pointing out one person. I can't really explain it that well.

Where do you get a Focus Slash? --[[User:Theryguy512|Ryguy]] 8:28, 28 August 2007 (EST)
:Focus Sash? I believe you can trade battle points for it up by the Battle Tower in D/P. -- [[user:Jioruji Derako|'''J'''ioruji '''D'''erako.'''>''']] 02:08, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
::Route 221, show a guy in a house a Pokémon the level of the 1 he wants to see. Next day, do the same thing. The third day, do it again. The frst time, you'll get a Black Belt. The second time, another Belt that powers up Super Effective attacks, I can't remember what it's called. Third time, Focus Sash. - [[User:Jonah|Jonah]] 22:08, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

oh, thanks [[User:Theryguy512|Ryguy]]

:The belt that powers up super-effective attacks is the Expert Belt. --[[User:Shiny Noctowl|Shiny Noctowl]] [[Image:376MS.gif]][[User:Shiny Noctowl#The Secret Page|Find the secret page!]][[Image:224MS.gif]] ♪The [[wp:oboe|oboe]] is the best instrument ever!♪ 00:23, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

==Pursuit==
Wouldn't a rattata with Focus Sash, Endeavor, Pursuit, Quick Attack counteract switching out... obviously this is very risky but the opponent would then not know what to do whether to switch out or not...--[[User:Wowy|Wowy]] 07:21, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
:But then how do you guess if they'll switch out or stay? If they stay and you use Pursuit, then they'll hit first and kill you. If they switch out and you use Quick Attack, at least now ''you'' can still switch out and save yourself. --[[user:Jioruji_Derako| '''J'''ïörüjï '''Ð'''ērākō.'''>''']][[user talk:Jioruji Derako|''.cнаt'''''^''']] 08:54, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
:That's why it's risky but most people would know about the Quick Attack not the pursuit and will rather switch out than attack first...--[[User:Wowy|Wowy]] 11:30, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
::Or they could counter with...another first strike move. '''[[User:Optimatum|<sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Optimatum|Talk]]|[[User:Optimatum/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''13:25 5 Sep 2008'''''
:::Best option is to just use a non-damage-dealing move at first (Swords Dance, Recover, whatever), and just let the F.E.A.R. sit there. Or if the Pokémon has Toxic, that's another not-quite-instant-kill.
:::Either way, it's super-easy to counter a F.E.A.R. Pokémon. It comes down to luck no matter what, normally. Pursuit could be useful, if you're against someone who knows a little about the F.E.A.R. strategy, but doesn't have a good counter. Quick Attack will generally be more useful, seeing as F.E.A.R. will work best against a player who doesn't see it coming (and thus, might not think to switch out). --[[user:Jioruji_Derako| '''J'''ïörüjï '''Ð'''ērākō.'''>''']][[user talk:Jioruji Derako|''.cнаt'''''^''']] 13:57, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

==I call it: S.A.F.E.!==
Well, the article said that [[Starly (Pokémon)|Starly]] can be used also. I tried it, and used it as well! I call it "SAFE"! Well, it means [S]tarly, Quick[A]ttack, [F]ocus Sash and [E]ndeavor! [[User:Palkia38|Palkia38]] 09:25, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
:It's frequently known as F.E.A.R., though. I haven't heard S.A.F.E. yet.. '''◄[[User:Kevzo8|Kev]][[User_talk:Kevzo8|zo8]]►''' 11:13, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

== Not enough info ==

This article is not very informative about ''what'' exactly makes up a F.E.A.R. Pokémon... maybe its just me not paying enough attention. [[User:Kpokefan|'''K''']][[User talk:Kpokefan|'''P''']][[User:Kpokefan/Missions|'''F''']] 20:31, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

:The "how to use FEAR" section pretty much sums the whole thing up; all in all, it's a fairly simple battle plan. It only works with a few moves (Focus Sash as the item, Endeavor and an increased-priority move, and you're set). Any more info would probably be too much info. --[[user:Jioruji_Derako| '''J'''ïörüjï '''Ð'''ērākō.'''>''']][[user talk:Jioruji Derako|''.cнаt'''''^''']] 05:08, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

::The MOS discourages the use of 'you' as {{tt|BP isn't a game guide.|I think it says that. I haven't actually read it, just skimmed it like any normal person would}} This article is full of the word 'you' as, it essentially is a game guide. Do we try and fix this? — [[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|THE TROM]] — 05:18, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

:::Might as well. Let me look at it. --[[user:Jioruji_Derako| '''J'''ïörüjï '''Ð'''ērākō.'''>''']][[user talk:Jioruji Derako|''.cнаt'''''^''']] 08:56, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

== FEAR Cleffa? ==

Should something be said about FEAR Cleffa, which works a different way? I think it was someone at Smogon who invented it.

It is a Magic Guard Cleffa. Hail or Sandstorm has to be in effect. The Cleffa uses Endeavor, to take the opponent to very low health. Then the opponent is killed by the weather. This is not countered by priority moves, Stealth Rock, Spikes, Poison Status, Burn, Weather, or by not attacking. It is stopped by Ghosts, and it will not kill pokémon that are immune to the weather (but it will still bring them down to low health).

Is this a kind of FEAR? Should it be put in the article?
[[User:Graut|Graut]] 12:36, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
:I think it would be good to put into the article under another section, like "''Alternate Strategies''" or something. Yeah, would be a good idea.--[[User:Clarky13|'''Clarky''']][[User talk:Clarky13|'''13''']] 12:41, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
::Indeed, that's a good idea. However, it can't be done without another Pokémon using Hail or Sandstorm. That means it doesn't meet the criteria to be in this article, I guess. --☆'''[[User:Kevzo8|Ke]][[Special:Contributions/Kevzo8|vz]][[User_talk:Kevzo8|o8]]''' 12:55, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
:::Hmm... That is true. I didn't catch on with that one. --[[User:Clarky13|'''Clarky''']][[User talk:Clarky13|'''13''']] 13:00, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

== No no no no ==

Why does this have its own page? just merge it with the article about the Metagame strategy.[[User:DCM]] 18:34, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

== Smeargle? ==

How can Smeargle get this at level 1? Doesn't it need two Sketches, and therefore need to be at level 11? [[User:The Dark Fiddler|The Dark Fiddler]] - [[User talk:The Dark Fiddler|You enter a poorly lit room...]] 11:02, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
:Move relearner. — [[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|THE TROM]] — 11:05, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
::Cure the move relearner, causing me to make a fool of myself, and not giving me the money he owes me. [[User:The Dark Fiddler|The Dark Fiddler]] - [[User talk:The Dark Fiddler|You enter a poorly lit room...]] 11:18, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

== Is This Page Necessary? ==
Really.

1. As you people love to say, Wikis aren't strategy guides.
2. As a competitive player, I can say that the intro to the second section is highly inaccurate. No one uses F.E.A.R. since it's painfully easy to counter (mostly because every team has a Stealth Rocker and Scizor's everywhere, but there are others). So, if it stays, someone needs to at least revise that section.

And sorry about the "Testing" bit. >_> [[User:MagicBarrier|MagicBarrier]] 01:40, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
:Hence the title, "Appendix." I don't like it either, but here we are. [[User:Ht14|'''''ht''''']][[User talk:Ht14|''14'']] 01:42, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

==Double Hitting Attack==

I've never been much for online battles, but wouldn't a double hitting attack take up the focus sash on the first hit and kill the Rattata on the second? Not 100 percent sure, could someone confirm it so I could add it?
Thanks. It would make sense, but don't want to put incorrect info on the wiki.

== Sturdy ==
So, now {{a|Sturdy}} can replace [[Focus Sash]]. While [[Shell Bell]] can be used to restore health in the same time to use this strategy more than once. To finish off the opponent, again, priority move can be used (like {{p|Donphan}}'s {{m|Ice Shard}}) or [[Sandstorm]] can do the job with, for example, {{p|Aron}}.
Requesting an update, since I don't think my knowledge of english is good enough.--[[User:ЫъГЬ|ЫъГЬ]] 09:35, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

== Gen V ==

Just updated the article with reference to Sturdy and Gen 5's changes. I think they're relevant. Just wondering if it was worth mentioning Sturdy Shedinja (multi-battles only)? A combination of Worry Seed and Skill Swap makes damn near impossible to kill Shedinja - with Shadow Sneak and the ability to use Mimic on Endeavor, you have a prime FEAR user on your hands.

Talk:F.E.A.R.

2011-01-26T16:43:16Z

N-Denizen: /* Gen V */ new section

Well I did some major revisions to the article - I'm hoping someone will give me the OK to remove the cleanup tag. [[User:Kochdude388|Kochdude388]] 04:19, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

:According to Marriland's F.A.Q. on the video, "F.E.A.R." also stands for "F@#king Evil Annoying Rodent". If someone could figure out a family-friendly way of saying that on the main article, I think it's a major part of the original name... -- [[user:Jioruji Derako|'''J'''ioruji '''D'''erako.'''>''']] 13:04, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

:How about Freaky Evil Annoying Rodent? [[User:MacGyver|MacGyver]] 16:34, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

How does the Marrilanad vid apply to the article? I know he uses FEAR in that vid, but still... Its like advertising for Marriladnd. Which isn't encyclopedic.

:Marriland is/was a big factor on the popularity of the archetype, I believe. It's not just a random link to some guy using F.E.A.R., it's a link to the most popular video of all time that just happens to use F.E.A.R. in it. Advertising for a guy isn't Wiki-like, true; but giving at least one source for a particular bit of knowledge ''is''. I personally don't see the link as much of an "advertisement" in the first place... -- [[user:Jioruji Derako|'''J'''ioruji '''D'''erako.'''>''']] 04:43, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
::It's there because that is the battle that made F.E.A.R famous. --[[User:Shiny Noctowl|Shiny Noctowl]] ---[[User:Shiny Noctowl#The Secret Page|Find the secret page!]]--- 12:15, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Its advertising for him, they could make a list of noteable trainers with FEAR, but it is pointing out one person. I can't really explain it that well.

Where do you get a Focus Slash? --[[User:Theryguy512|Ryguy]] 8:28, 28 August 2007 (EST)
:Focus Sash? I believe you can trade battle points for it up by the Battle Tower in D/P. -- [[user:Jioruji Derako|'''J'''ioruji '''D'''erako.'''>''']] 02:08, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
::Route 221, show a guy in a house a Pokémon the level of the 1 he wants to see. Next day, do the same thing. The third day, do it again. The frst time, you'll get a Black Belt. The second time, another Belt that powers up Super Effective attacks, I can't remember what it's called. Third time, Focus Sash. - [[User:Jonah|Jonah]] 22:08, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

oh, thanks [[User:Theryguy512|Ryguy]]

:The belt that powers up super-effective attacks is the Expert Belt. --[[User:Shiny Noctowl|Shiny Noctowl]] [[Image:376MS.gif]][[User:Shiny Noctowl#The Secret Page|Find the secret page!]][[Image:224MS.gif]] ♪The [[wp:oboe|oboe]] is the best instrument ever!♪ 00:23, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

==Pursuit==
Wouldn't a rattata with Focus Sash, Endeavor, Pursuit, Quick Attack counteract switching out... obviously this is very risky but the opponent would then not know what to do whether to switch out or not...--[[User:Wowy|Wowy]] 07:21, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
:But then how do you guess if they'll switch out or stay? If they stay and you use Pursuit, then they'll hit first and kill you. If they switch out and you use Quick Attack, at least now ''you'' can still switch out and save yourself. --[[user:Jioruji_Derako| '''J'''ïörüjï '''Ð'''ērākō.'''>''']][[user talk:Jioruji Derako|''.cнаt'''''^''']] 08:54, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
:That's why it's risky but most people would know about the Quick Attack not the pursuit and will rather switch out than attack first...--[[User:Wowy|Wowy]] 11:30, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
::Or they could counter with...another first strike move. '''[[User:Optimatum|<sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Optimatum|Talk]]|[[User:Optimatum/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''13:25 5 Sep 2008'''''
:::Best option is to just use a non-damage-dealing move at first (Swords Dance, Recover, whatever), and just let the F.E.A.R. sit there. Or if the Pokémon has Toxic, that's another not-quite-instant-kill.
:::Either way, it's super-easy to counter a F.E.A.R. Pokémon. It comes down to luck no matter what, normally. Pursuit could be useful, if you're against someone who knows a little about the F.E.A.R. strategy, but doesn't have a good counter. Quick Attack will generally be more useful, seeing as F.E.A.R. will work best against a player who doesn't see it coming (and thus, might not think to switch out). --[[user:Jioruji_Derako| '''J'''ïörüjï '''Ð'''ērākō.'''>''']][[user talk:Jioruji Derako|''.cнаt'''''^''']] 13:57, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

==I call it: S.A.F.E.!==
Well, the article said that [[Starly (Pokémon)|Starly]] can be used also. I tried it, and used it as well! I call it "SAFE"! Well, it means [S]tarly, Quick[A]ttack, [F]ocus Sash and [E]ndeavor! [[User:Palkia38|Palkia38]] 09:25, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
:It's frequently known as F.E.A.R., though. I haven't heard S.A.F.E. yet.. '''◄[[User:Kevzo8|Kev]][[User_talk:Kevzo8|zo8]]►''' 11:13, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

== Not enough info ==

This article is not very informative about ''what'' exactly makes up a F.E.A.R. Pokémon... maybe its just me not paying enough attention. [[User:Kpokefan|'''K''']][[User talk:Kpokefan|'''P''']][[User:Kpokefan/Missions|'''F''']] 20:31, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

:The "how to use FEAR" section pretty much sums the whole thing up; all in all, it's a fairly simple battle plan. It only works with a few moves (Focus Sash as the item, Endeavor and an increased-priority move, and you're set). Any more info would probably be too much info. --[[user:Jioruji_Derako| '''J'''ïörüjï '''Ð'''ērākō.'''>''']][[user talk:Jioruji Derako|''.cнаt'''''^''']] 05:08, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

::The MOS discourages the use of 'you' as {{tt|BP isn't a game guide.|I think it says that. I haven't actually read it, just skimmed it like any normal person would}} This article is full of the word 'you' as, it essentially is a game guide. Do we try and fix this? — [[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|THE TROM]] — 05:18, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

:::Might as well. Let me look at it. --[[user:Jioruji_Derako| '''J'''ïörüjï '''Ð'''ērākō.'''>''']][[user talk:Jioruji Derako|''.cнаt'''''^''']] 08:56, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

== FEAR Cleffa? ==

Should something be said about FEAR Cleffa, which works a different way? I think it was someone at Smogon who invented it.

It is a Magic Guard Cleffa. Hail or Sandstorm has to be in effect. The Cleffa uses Endeavor, to take the opponent to very low health. Then the opponent is killed by the weather. This is not countered by priority moves, Stealth Rock, Spikes, Poison Status, Burn, Weather, or by not attacking. It is stopped by Ghosts, and it will not kill pokémon that are immune to the weather (but it will still bring them down to low health).

Is this a kind of FEAR? Should it be put in the article?
[[User:Graut|Graut]] 12:36, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
:I think it would be good to put into the article under another section, like "''Alternate Strategies''" or something. Yeah, would be a good idea.--[[User:Clarky13|'''Clarky''']][[User talk:Clarky13|'''13''']] 12:41, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
::Indeed, that's a good idea. However, it can't be done without another Pokémon using Hail or Sandstorm. That means it doesn't meet the criteria to be in this article, I guess. --☆'''[[User:Kevzo8|Ke]][[Special:Contributions/Kevzo8|vz]][[User_talk:Kevzo8|o8]]''' 12:55, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
:::Hmm... That is true. I didn't catch on with that one. --[[User:Clarky13|'''Clarky''']][[User talk:Clarky13|'''13''']] 13:00, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

== No no no no ==

Why does this have its own page? just merge it with the article about the Metagame strategy.[[User:DCM]] 18:34, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

== Smeargle? ==

How can Smeargle get this at level 1? Doesn't it need two Sketches, and therefore need to be at level 11? [[User:The Dark Fiddler|The Dark Fiddler]] - [[User talk:The Dark Fiddler|You enter a poorly lit room...]] 11:02, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
:Move relearner. — [[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|THE TROM]] — 11:05, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
::Cure the move relearner, causing me to make a fool of myself, and not giving me the money he owes me. [[User:The Dark Fiddler|The Dark Fiddler]] - [[User talk:The Dark Fiddler|You enter a poorly lit room...]] 11:18, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

== Is This Page Necessary? ==
Really.

1. As you people love to say, Wikis aren't strategy guides.
2. As a competitive player, I can say that the intro to the second section is highly inaccurate. No one uses F.E.A.R. since it's painfully easy to counter (mostly because every team has a Stealth Rocker and Scizor's everywhere, but there are others). So, if it stays, someone needs to at least revise that section.

And sorry about the "Testing" bit. >_> [[User:MagicBarrier|MagicBarrier]] 01:40, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
:Hence the title, "Appendix." I don't like it either, but here we are. [[User:Ht14|'''''ht''''']][[User talk:Ht14|''14'']] 01:42, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

==Double Hitting Attack==

I've never been much for online battles, but wouldn't a double hitting attack take up the focus sash on the first hit and kill the Rattata on the second? Not 100 percent sure, could someone confirm it so I could add it?
Thanks. It would make sense, but don't want to put incorrect info on the wiki.

== Sturdy ==
So, now {{a|Sturdy}} can replace [[Focus Sash]]. While [[Shell Bell]] can be used to restore health in the same time to use this strategy more than once. To finish off the opponent, again, priority move can be used (like {{p|Donphan}}'s {{m|Ice Shard}}) or [[Sandstorm]] can do the job with, for example, {{p|Aron}}.
Requesting an update, since I don't think my knowledge of english is good enough.--[[User:ЫъГЬ|ЫъГЬ]] 09:35, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

== Gen V ==

Just updated the article with reference to Sturdy and Gen 5's changes. I think they're relevant. Just wondering if it was worth mentioning Sturdy Shedinja? A combination of Worry Seed and Skill Swap makes damn near impossible to kill Shedinja - with Shadow Sneak and the ability to use Mimic on Endeavor, you have a prime FEAR user on your hands.

F.E.A.R.

2011-01-26T16:32:46Z

N-Denizen: /* Countering F.E.A.R. */

'''F.E.A.R.''' is a last-resort strategy used in competitive battling, normally usable only once per battle. A "F.E.A.R. Pokémon" is a Pokémon compatible with a certain moveset capable of defeating a full-HP opponent at virtually any level (most notably LV 100) while itself is only at LV 1 or 2, the reason being for bragging rights. The most well-known Pokémon used for this strategy is a {{p|Rattata}}.

F.E.A.R. generally stands for:
*[[Focus Sash]]
*{{m|Endeavor}}
*{{m|Quick Attack|(Quick) Attack}}
*{{p|Rattata}}

The original term, coined by strategists as humor, was "'''F'''***ing '''E'''vil '''A'''nnoying '''R'''odent".

The strategy (and original profanity-laden term) was originally conceived on GameFAQs' ''Pokémon Diamond'' [http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/gentopic.php?board=925601 message board] in early 2007.

==How to use F.E.A.R.==
After one of the player's Pokémon faints, the F.E.A.R. Pokémon can be sent out against an opponent's Pokémon with (preferably) full HP. During the first turn, the F.E.A.R. Pokémon will use Endeavor, and the opponent will most likely use an offensive attack to try to defeat the F.E.A.R. Pokémon (assuming, of course, that the opponent isn't aware of this strategy). The F.E.A.R. Pokémon would indeed faint, if it were not holding the Focus Sash, which allows the user to hold on to 1 HP after a hit which would otherwise knock it out from max-HP. When the Pokémon uses Endeavor, the HP of the opponent's Pokémon will equal the HP of its own (which is now, assuming Focus Sash triggered, equal to 1). During the following turn, the F.E.A.R. Pokémon can use Quick Attack to wipe out the remaining 1 HP of the opponent's Pokémon. Focus Sash will not work twice, so a Pokémon can only use this strategy once.

In Generation V, the ability {{a|Sturdy}} was altered to function like a Focus Sash, but can activate multiple times providing the Pokémon regains all of its HP. With this change came new notable users of F.E.A.R. - A level 2 {{p|Probopass}} can use {{m|Pain Split}} to wear down the opponent's HP whilst healing itself, whereas {{p|Aron}} can use a combination of Endeavor and a held [[Shell Bell]] for multiple uses of Endeavor. Generation V also introduced {{p|Yuniran}}, a pokemon able to combine {{a|Magic Guard}} and Endeavor, but also set up {{m|Trick Room}} for its allies.

==Countering F.E.A.R.==
While an impressive strategy, F.E.A.R. is simple to counter. The following are several ways to counter the F.E.A.R. strategy:
* Knowledge: The simplest strategy and perhaps the most effective. If the opponent knows the F.E.A.R. strategy, they won't attack as needed for it to work (a damaging move), or they will switch out for a Pokémon immune to it or easily able to counter it. Besides the other three counters listed here, a player could switch out after the opponent's F.E.A.R. uses Endeavor, leaving it with 1 HP and another Pokémon to sweep the F.E.A.R. However, if the F.E.A.R.-using player predicts correctly, this problem can be solved using Pursuit.
* {{type2|Ghost}}s: As Ghost-types are immune to {{t|Normal}}- and {{type2|Fighting}} attacks, Endeavor and Quick Attack are useless against them. It should be noted however, that a F.E.A.R. {{p|Kangaskhan}} or {{p|Taillow}}{{tt|*|Generation V, Dream World}} with {{a|Scrappy}} will still be able to use Endeavor against a Ghost-type Pokémon.
* A Pokémon with {{m|Quick Attack}}, {{m|ExtremeSpeed}}, {{m|Sucker Punch}}, {{m|Ice Shard}}, or other automatic, first-hit effects: If the opponent uses an increased-priority move at the same time as the F.E.A.R. Pokémon does, the large difference in level will almost always result in the opponent's Pokémon landing the hit first, leaving the opponent with little HP, but leaving the F.E.A.R. player with one Pokémon down, however in Generation V {{m|Feint}} and {{m|ExtremeSpeed}} have +2 priority, and are not countered by +1 priority moves.
*A move that damages foes upon switching in (like {{M|Spikes}} or {{m|Stealth Rock}}) can cancel out the Focus Sash effect, thus causing the foe to be unable to withstand a one-hit KO. This only works if the F.E.A.R. Pokémon isn't released prior to that move.
**Note that Doduo, Taillow, Starly, Togekiss, and Shaymin in its Sky Forme are immune to Spikes.
*Moves, abilities, and statuses that deal damage every turn (like {{m|Sandstorm}} or {{DL|Status ailment|Burn}}) can cancel out Focus Sash's effect. This can also work without using a turn if a Pokémon like {{p|Tyranitar}}, {{p|Hippowdon}}, or {{p|Abomasnow}} activate their abilities. (Note that F.E.A.R. Phanpy, Corsola, Wormadam (Sandy and Trash Cloaks) and Swinub are immune to Sandstorm (and the last one to {{m|Hail}} as well.))
*{{m|Embargo}} prevents the foe from using any item, in this case Focus Sash.
**Do note that, somewhat counterintuitively, {{m|Knock Off}} will '''NOT''' serve to KO a F.E.A.R. Pokémon if it is at 100% HP unless Embargo is in effect. The F.E.A.R. Pokémon's Focus Sash will be knocked off '''after''' it has been successfully activated, and the Pokémon will still be able to use Endeavor to reduce the foe's HP.
* {{DL|In-battle effect item|Leftovers}} (and {{DL|In-battle effect item|Black Sludge}} in the case of {{type2|Poison}} foes) return some HP to the user's Pokémon, and more than likely, more than the opposing F.E.A.R. can deal with its increased-priority move.
*Similarly, if an attacked Pokémon is holding any [[HP]]-restoring [[berry]], the F.E.A.R. Pokémon would not do enough damage to defeat it.
*F.E.A.R.: Ironically, a way to combat a F.E.A.R. Pokémon is having it face another F.E.A.R. Pokémon (or some other low-level Pokémon). Having roughly the same HP, both F.E.A.R.s would do little damage towards each other. It isn't, however, practical or useful to carry a F.E.A.R. Pokémon just for the sake of combating another F.E.A.R., as both Pokémon are about evenly-matched.
*Using a decreased-priority move will leave the Pokémon attacking the F.E.A.R. Pokémon with approximately 12 or so hit points after the first turn and the F.E.A.R. Pokémon will only have 1 health point, causing an easy sweep on the second turn.
*{{p|Shedinja}} and its {{a|Wonder Guard}} ability will make Endeavor unable to hit.
**Note that Sucker Punch can be used to KO Shedinja, but only after its Focus Sash has been activated or otherwise rendered useless.
*Attacks that have multi-hits, ex. {{m|Bullet Seed}}, {{m|Rock Blast}}, will negate Focus Sash and Sturdy
*In double and triple battles, having two Pokémon use moves that will hit the F.E.A.R. Pokémon will cause it to faint, since the Focus Sash will only activate for the first attack.
*Although Generation V altered Sturdy to act like a Focus Sash, the ability {{a|Mold Breaker}} ignores this effect, countering any attempt to use F.E.A.R. with Sturdy.

==F.E.A.R.-capable Pokémon==
{| {{bluetable2|c sortable}}
|- style="background: #ccf;"
! [[List of Pokémon by National Pokédex number|#]]
! Icon
! Name
! Priority move
! Notes
! Lowest possible level
|-
| 019
| {{MS|019|Rattata (Pokémon)}}
| {{p|Rattata}}
| {{m|Quick Attack}}, {{m|Sucker Punch}}
| Pokémon most well-known to utilize this strategy.
| 1
|-
| 025
| {{MS|025|Pikachu (Pokémon)}}
| {{p|Pikachu}}
| {{M|Quick Attack}}, {{m|Feint}}{{tt|*|Generation V}}
| Only learns Endeavor as a Pichu through the 12th movie event, where it is obtained at level 30. Requires at least one level to evolve. F.E.A.R. Pikachu are always {{shiny}} and in Cherish Balls. Feint is not countered by +1 priority moves{{tt|*|Generation V}}
| 31
|-
| 056
| {{MS|056|Mankey (Pokémon)}}
| {{p|Mankey}}
| {{m|Vacuum Wave}}
| {{game|Platinum}} move tutors required for {{m|Endeavor}} and {{m|Vacuum Wave}}.
| 1
|-
| 062
| {{MS|062|Poliwrath (Pokémon)}}
| {{p|Poliwrath}}
| {{m|Vacuum Wave}}
| {{game|Platinum}} move tutors required for {{m|Vacuum Wave}}.
| 25
|-
| 084
| {{MS|084|Doduo (Pokémon)}}
| {{p|Doduo}}
| {{M|Quick Attack}}
|
| 1
|-
| 115
| {{MS|115|Kangaskhan (Pokémon)}}
| {{p|Kangaskhan}}
| {{M|Sucker Punch}}
| {{game|Platinum}} move tutors required to get {{m|Endeavor}} on a lv. 1 Kangaskhan that knows {{m|Sucker Punch}}. If ability is {{a|Scrappy}}, not countered by {{type2|Ghost}} Pokémon.
| 1
|-
| 151
| {{MS|151|Mew (Pokémon)}}
| {{p|Mew}}
| {{M|Sucker Punch}}, {{m|Vacuum Wave}}
| {{game|Platinum}} move tutors required to get {{m|Endeavor}}, {{m|Sucker Punch}}, and {{m|Vacuum Wave}}.
| 5
|-
| 220
| {{MS|220|Swinub (Pokémon)}}
| {{p|Swinub}}
| {{M|Ice Shard}}
| {{game|Platinum}} move tutors required for {{m|Endeavor}}, Not countered by {{m|Sandstorm}} or {{m|Hail}}.
| 1
|-
| 222
| {{MS|222|Corsola (Pokémon)}}
| {{p|Corsola}}
| {{M|Sucker Punch}}
| {{game|Platinum}} move tutors required for {{m|Sucker Punch}} and {{m|Endeavor}}. Not countered by {{m|Sandstorm}}.
| 1
|-
| 231
| {{MS|231|Phanpy}}
| {{p|Phanpy}}
| {{M|Ice Shard}}
| Not countered by {{m|Sandstorm}}.
| 1
|-
| 232
| {{MS|232|Donphan}}
| {{p|Donphan}}
| {{M|Ice Shard}}
| Not countered by {{m|Sandstorm}}; if ability is {{a|Sturdy}}, Focus Sash can be replaced with Shell Bell, allowing the strategy to be reused.{{tt|*|Generation V}}
| 25
|-
| 235
| {{MS|235|Smeargle (Pokémon)}}
| {{p|Smeargle}}
| {{m|Quick Attack|A}}{{m|Mach Punch|n}}{{m|ExtremeSpeed|y}} {{m|Aqua Jet|p}}{{m|Bullet Punch|r}}{{m|Ice Shard|i}}{{m|Shadow Sneak|or}}{{m|Sucker Punch|it}}{{m|Vacuum Wave|y}} [[Priority#Priority moves|move]]
| Smeargle learns almost any move via {{m|Sketch}}, including {{m|Endeavor}} and any priority move. [[Move relearner]] needed to re-learn Sketch at level 1.
| 1
|-
| 237
| {{MS|237|Hitmontop (Pokémon)}}
| {{p|Hitmontop}}
| {{m|Quick Attack}}, {{m|Vacuum Wave}}, {{m|Bullet Punch}}, {{m|Mach Punch}}, {{m|Sucker Punch}}, {{m|Feint}}{{tt|*|Generation V}}
| {{game|Platinum}} move tutors required for {{m|Sucker Punch}} (and {{m|Endeavor}} at a lower level). Feint is not countered by +1 priority moves{{tt|*|Generation V}}
| 20
|-
| 252
| {{MS|252|Treecko (Pokémon)}}
| {{p|Treecko}}
| {{m|Quick Attack}}
|
| 1
|-
| 276
| {{MS|276|Taillow (Pokémon)}}
| {{p|Taillow}}
| {{m|Quick Attack}}
| Not countered by Ghost-type Pokémon if ability is {{a|Scrappy}}{{tt|*|Generation V, only available from Dream World}}.
| 1
|-
| 304
| {{MS|304|Aron (Pokémon)}}
| {{p|Aron}}
| Other/none
| Give a [[Shell Bell]], Sturdy and Sandstorm support, can be used multiple times. {{tt|*|Generation V only}}
| 1
|-
| 335
| {{MS|335|Zangoose (Pokémon)}}
| {{p|Zangoose}}
| {{m|Quick Attack}}
| {{game|Platinum}} move tutors required for {{m|Endeavor}}.
| 1
|-
| 390
| {{MS|390|Chimchar (Pokémon)}}
| {{p|Chimchar}}
| {{m|Vacuum Wave}}
| {{game|Platinum}} move tutors required for {{m|Endeavor}} and {{m|Vacuum Wave}}.
| 1
|-
| 396
| {{MS|396|Starly (Pokémon)}}
| {{p|Starly}}
| {{m|Quick Attack}}
|
| 1
|-
| 413
| {{MS|413|Wormadam (Pokémon)}}{{MS|413G|Wormadam (Pokémon)}}{{MS|413S|Wormadam (Pokémon)}}
| {{p|Wormadam}}
| {{m|Sucker Punch}}
| All forms, {{game|Platinum}} move tutors required for {{m|Endeavor}} and {{m|Sucker Punch}}. Sandy and Trash Cloaks not countered by {{m|Sandstorm}}.
| 20
|-
| 427
| {{MS|427|Buneary (Pokémon)}}
| {{p|Buneary}}
| {{m|Quick Attack}}
| {{game|Platinum}} move tutors required for {{m|Endeavor}}.
| 1
|-
| 468
| {{MS|468|Togekiss (Pokémon)}}
| {{p|Togekiss}}
| {{m|ExtremeSpeed}}
| {{game|Platinum}} move tutors required for {{m|Endeavor}}. ExtremeSpeed is not countered by +1 priority moves{{tt|*|Generation V}}
| 2
|-
| 492
| {{MS|492|Shaymin (Pokémon)}}{{MS|492S|Shaymin (Pokémon)}}
| {{p|Shaymin}}
| {{m|Quick Attack}}
| Only learns {{m|Quick Attack}} in Sky Form, and only learns {{m|Endeavor}} via move tutor in Land Form.
| 30
|-
| 566
| {{MS|566|Aaken (Pokémon)}}
| {{p|Aaken}}
| {{m|Quick Attack}}
| Not countered by {{m|Sandstorm}}.
| 1
|}

==External Links==
*[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTkLDGtu36Q&fmt=18 A battle that ends with the F.E.A.R. strategy.]

{{Project Fandom notice}}
[[Category:Fanon terminology]]

[[fr:FEAR]]

F.E.A.R.

2011-01-26T16:30:10Z

N-Denizen: /* Countering F.E.A.R. */ Mold Breaker ignores Sturdy, altered Multi-hit section

'''F.E.A.R.''' is a last-resort strategy used in competitive battling, normally usable only once per battle. A "F.E.A.R. Pokémon" is a Pokémon compatible with a certain moveset capable of defeating a full-HP opponent at virtually any level (most notably LV 100) while itself is only at LV 1 or 2, the reason being for bragging rights. The most well-known Pokémon used for this strategy is a {{p|Rattata}}.

F.E.A.R. generally stands for:
*[[Focus Sash]]
*{{m|Endeavor}}
*{{m|Quick Attack|(Quick) Attack}}
*{{p|Rattata}}

The original term, coined by strategists as humor, was "'''F'''***ing '''E'''vil '''A'''nnoying '''R'''odent".

The strategy (and original profanity-laden term) was originally conceived on GameFAQs' ''Pokémon Diamond'' [http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/gentopic.php?board=925601 message board] in early 2007.

==How to use F.E.A.R.==
After one of the player's Pokémon faints, the F.E.A.R. Pokémon can be sent out against an opponent's Pokémon with (preferably) full HP. During the first turn, the F.E.A.R. Pokémon will use Endeavor, and the opponent will most likely use an offensive attack to try to defeat the F.E.A.R. Pokémon (assuming, of course, that the opponent isn't aware of this strategy). The F.E.A.R. Pokémon would indeed faint, if it were not holding the Focus Sash, which allows the user to hold on to 1 HP after a hit which would otherwise knock it out from max-HP. When the Pokémon uses Endeavor, the HP of the opponent's Pokémon will equal the HP of its own (which is now, assuming Focus Sash triggered, equal to 1). During the following turn, the F.E.A.R. Pokémon can use Quick Attack to wipe out the remaining 1 HP of the opponent's Pokémon. Focus Sash will not work twice, so a Pokémon can only use this strategy once.

In Generation V, the ability {{a|Sturdy}} was altered to function like a Focus Sash, but can activate multiple times providing the Pokémon regains all of its HP. With this change came new notable users of F.E.A.R. - A level 2 {{p|Probopass}} can use {{m|Pain Split}} to wear down the opponent's HP whilst healing itself, whereas {{p|Aron}} can use a combination of Endeavor and a held [[Shell Bell]] for multiple uses of Endeavor. Generation V also introduced {{p|Yuniran}}, a pokemon able to combine {{a|Magic Guard}} and Endeavor, but also set up {{m|Trick Room}} for its allies.

==Countering F.E.A.R.==
While an impressive strategy, F.E.A.R. is simple to counter. The following are several ways to counter the F.E.A.R. strategy:
* Knowledge: The simplest strategy and perhaps the most effective. If the opponent knows the F.E.A.R. strategy, they won't attack as needed for it to work (a damaging move), or they will switch out for a Pokémon immune to it or easily able to counter it. Besides the other three counters listed here, a player could switch out after the opponent's F.E.A.R. uses Endeavor, leaving it with 1 HP and another Pokémon to sweep the F.E.A.R. However, if the F.E.A.R.-using player predicts correctly, this problem can be solved using Pursuit.
* {{type2|Ghost}}s: As Ghost-types are immune to {{t|Normal}}- and {{type2|Fighting}} attacks, Endeavor and Quick Attack are useless against them. It should be noted however, that a F.E.A.R. {{p|Kangaskhan}} or {{p|Taillow}}{{tt|*|Generation V, Dream World}} with {{a|Scrappy}} will still be able to use Endeavor against a Ghost-type Pokémon.
* A Pokémon with {{m|Quick Attack}}, {{m|ExtremeSpeed}}, {{m|Sucker Punch}}, {{m|Ice Shard}}, or other automatic, first-hit effects: If the opponent uses an increased-priority move at the same time as the F.E.A.R. Pokémon does, the large difference in level will almost always result in the opponent's Pokémon landing the hit first, leaving the opponent with little HP, but leaving the F.E.A.R. player with one Pokémon down, however in Generation V {{m|Feint}} and {{m|ExtremeSpeed}} have +2 priority, and are not countered by +1 priority moves.
*A move that damages foes upon switching in (like {{M|Spikes}} or {{m|Stealth Rock}}) can cancel out the Focus Sash effect, thus causing the foe to be unable to withstand a one-hit KO. This only works if the F.E.A.R. Pokémon isn't released prior to that move.
**Note that Doduo, Taillow, Starly, Togekiss, and Shaymin in its Sky Forme are immune to Spikes.
*Moves, abilities, and statuses that deal damage every turn (like {{m|Sandstorm}} or {{DL|Status ailment|Burn}}) can cancel out Focus Sash's effect. This can also work without using a turn if a Pokémon like {{p|Tyranitar}}, {{p|Hippowdon}}, or {{p|Abomasnow}} activate their abilities. (Note that F.E.A.R. Phanpy, Corsola, Wormadam (Sandy and Trash Cloaks) and Swinub are immune to Sandstorm (and the last one to {{m|Hail}} as well.))
*{{m|Embargo}} prevents the foe from using any item, in this case Focus Sash.
**Do note that, somewhat counterintuitively, {{m|Knock Off}} will '''NOT''' serve to KO a F.E.A.R. Pokémon if it is at 100% HP unless Embargo is in effect. The F.E.A.R. Pokémon's Focus Sash will be knocked off '''after''' it has been successfully activated, and the Pokémon will still be able to use Endeavor to reduce the foe's HP.
* {{DL|In-battle effect item|Leftovers}} (and {{DL|In-battle effect item|Black Sludge}} in the case of {{type2|Poison}} foes) return some HP to the user's Pokémon, and more than likely, more than the opposing F.E.A.R. can deal with its increased-priority move.
*Similarly, if an attacked Pokémon is holding any [[HP]]-restoring [[berry]], the F.E.A.R. Pokémon would not do enough damage to defeat it.
*F.E.A.R.: Ironically, a way to combat a F.E.A.R. Pokémon is having it face another F.E.A.R. Pokémon (or some other low-level Pokémon). Having roughly the same HP, both F.E.A.R.s would do little damage towards each other. It isn't, however, practical or useful to carry a F.E.A.R. Pokémon just for the sake of combating another F.E.A.R., as both Pokémon are about evenly-matched.
*Using a decreased-priority move will leave the Pokémon attacking the F.E.A.R. Pokémon with approximately 12 or so hit points after the first turn and the F.E.A.R. Pokémon will only have 1 health point, causing an easy sweep on the second turn.
*{{p|Shedinja}} and its {{a|Wonder Guard}} ability will make Endeavor unable to hit.
**Note that Sucker Punch can be used to KO Shedinja, but only after its Focus Sash has been activated or otherwise rendered useless.
*Attacks that have multi-hits, ex. {{m|Bullet Seed}}, {{m|Rock Blast}}, will negate the Focus Sash.
*In double and triple battles, having two Pokémon use moves that will hit the F.E.A.R. Pokémon will cause it to faint, since the Focus Sash will only activate for the first attack.
*Although Generation V altered Sturdy to act like a Focus Sash, the ability Mold Breaker ignores this effect, therefore countering any attempt to use F.E.A.R. with Sturdy

==F.E.A.R.-capable Pokémon==
{| {{bluetable2|c sortable}}
|- style="background: #ccf;"
! [[List of Pokémon by National Pokédex number|#]]
! Icon
! Name
! Priority move
! Notes
! Lowest possible level
|-
| 019
| {{MS|019|Rattata (Pokémon)}}
| {{p|Rattata}}
| {{m|Quick Attack}}, {{m|Sucker Punch}}
| Pokémon most well-known to utilize this strategy.
| 1
|-
| 025
| {{MS|025|Pikachu (Pokémon)}}
| {{p|Pikachu}}
| {{M|Quick Attack}}, {{m|Feint}}{{tt|*|Generation V}}
| Only learns Endeavor as a Pichu through the 12th movie event, where it is obtained at level 30. Requires at least one level to evolve. F.E.A.R. Pikachu are always {{shiny}} and in Cherish Balls. Feint is not countered by +1 priority moves{{tt|*|Generation V}}
| 31
|-
| 056
| {{MS|056|Mankey (Pokémon)}}
| {{p|Mankey}}
| {{m|Vacuum Wave}}
| {{game|Platinum}} move tutors required for {{m|Endeavor}} and {{m|Vacuum Wave}}.
| 1
|-
| 062
| {{MS|062|Poliwrath (Pokémon)}}
| {{p|Poliwrath}}
| {{m|Vacuum Wave}}
| {{game|Platinum}} move tutors required for {{m|Vacuum Wave}}.
| 25
|-
| 084
| {{MS|084|Doduo (Pokémon)}}
| {{p|Doduo}}
| {{M|Quick Attack}}
|
| 1
|-
| 115
| {{MS|115|Kangaskhan (Pokémon)}}
| {{p|Kangaskhan}}
| {{M|Sucker Punch}}
| {{game|Platinum}} move tutors required to get {{m|Endeavor}} on a lv. 1 Kangaskhan that knows {{m|Sucker Punch}}. If ability is {{a|Scrappy}}, not countered by {{type2|Ghost}} Pokémon.
| 1
|-
| 151
| {{MS|151|Mew (Pokémon)}}
| {{p|Mew}}
| {{M|Sucker Punch}}, {{m|Vacuum Wave}}
| {{game|Platinum}} move tutors required to get {{m|Endeavor}}, {{m|Sucker Punch}}, and {{m|Vacuum Wave}}.
| 5
|-
| 220
| {{MS|220|Swinub (Pokémon)}}
| {{p|Swinub}}
| {{M|Ice Shard}}
| {{game|Platinum}} move tutors required for {{m|Endeavor}}, Not countered by {{m|Sandstorm}} or {{m|Hail}}.
| 1
|-
| 222
| {{MS|222|Corsola (Pokémon)}}
| {{p|Corsola}}
| {{M|Sucker Punch}}
| {{game|Platinum}} move tutors required for {{m|Sucker Punch}} and {{m|Endeavor}}. Not countered by {{m|Sandstorm}}.
| 1
|-
| 231
| {{MS|231|Phanpy}}
| {{p|Phanpy}}
| {{M|Ice Shard}}
| Not countered by {{m|Sandstorm}}.
| 1
|-
| 232
| {{MS|232|Donphan}}
| {{p|Donphan}}
| {{M|Ice Shard}}
| Not countered by {{m|Sandstorm}}; if ability is {{a|Sturdy}}, Focus Sash can be replaced with Shell Bell, allowing the strategy to be reused.{{tt|*|Generation V}}
| 25
|-
| 235
| {{MS|235|Smeargle (Pokémon)}}
| {{p|Smeargle}}
| {{m|Quick Attack|A}}{{m|Mach Punch|n}}{{m|ExtremeSpeed|y}} {{m|Aqua Jet|p}}{{m|Bullet Punch|r}}{{m|Ice Shard|i}}{{m|Shadow Sneak|or}}{{m|Sucker Punch|it}}{{m|Vacuum Wave|y}} [[Priority#Priority moves|move]]
| Smeargle learns almost any move via {{m|Sketch}}, including {{m|Endeavor}} and any priority move. [[Move relearner]] needed to re-learn Sketch at level 1.
| 1
|-
| 237
| {{MS|237|Hitmontop (Pokémon)}}
| {{p|Hitmontop}}
| {{m|Quick Attack}}, {{m|Vacuum Wave}}, {{m|Bullet Punch}}, {{m|Mach Punch}}, {{m|Sucker Punch}}, {{m|Feint}}{{tt|*|Generation V}}
| {{game|Platinum}} move tutors required for {{m|Sucker Punch}} (and {{m|Endeavor}} at a lower level). Feint is not countered by +1 priority moves{{tt|*|Generation V}}
| 20
|-
| 252
| {{MS|252|Treecko (Pokémon)}}
| {{p|Treecko}}
| {{m|Quick Attack}}
|
| 1
|-
| 276
| {{MS|276|Taillow (Pokémon)}}
| {{p|Taillow}}
| {{m|Quick Attack}}
| Not countered by Ghost-type Pokémon if ability is {{a|Scrappy}}{{tt|*|Generation V, only available from Dream World}}.
| 1
|-
| 304
| {{MS|304|Aron (Pokémon)}}
| {{p|Aron}}
| Other/none
| Give a [[Shell Bell]], Sturdy and Sandstorm support, can be used multiple times. {{tt|*|Generation V only}}
| 1
|-
| 335
| {{MS|335|Zangoose (Pokémon)}}
| {{p|Zangoose}}
| {{m|Quick Attack}}
| {{game|Platinum}} move tutors required for {{m|Endeavor}}.
| 1
|-
| 390
| {{MS|390|Chimchar (Pokémon)}}
| {{p|Chimchar}}
| {{m|Vacuum Wave}}
| {{game|Platinum}} move tutors required for {{m|Endeavor}} and {{m|Vacuum Wave}}.
| 1
|-
| 396
| {{MS|396|Starly (Pokémon)}}
| {{p|Starly}}
| {{m|Quick Attack}}
|
| 1
|-
| 413
| {{MS|413|Wormadam (Pokémon)}}{{MS|413G|Wormadam (Pokémon)}}{{MS|413S|Wormadam (Pokémon)}}
| {{p|Wormadam}}
| {{m|Sucker Punch}}
| All forms, {{game|Platinum}} move tutors required for {{m|Endeavor}} and {{m|Sucker Punch}}. Sandy and Trash Cloaks not countered by {{m|Sandstorm}}.
| 20
|-
| 427
| {{MS|427|Buneary (Pokémon)}}
| {{p|Buneary}}
| {{m|Quick Attack}}
| {{game|Platinum}} move tutors required for {{m|Endeavor}}.
| 1
|-
| 468
| {{MS|468|Togekiss (Pokémon)}}
| {{p|Togekiss}}
| {{m|ExtremeSpeed}}
| {{game|Platinum}} move tutors required for {{m|Endeavor}}. ExtremeSpeed is not countered by +1 priority moves{{tt|*|Generation V}}
| 2
|-
| 492
| {{MS|492|Shaymin (Pokémon)}}{{MS|492S|Shaymin (Pokémon)}}
| {{p|Shaymin}}
| {{m|Quick Attack}}
| Only learns {{m|Quick Attack}} in Sky Form, and only learns {{m|Endeavor}} via move tutor in Land Form.
| 30
|-
| 566
| {{MS|566|Aaken (Pokémon)}}
| {{p|Aaken}}
| {{m|Quick Attack}}
| Not countered by {{m|Sandstorm}}.
| 1
|}

==External Links==
*[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTkLDGtu36Q&fmt=18 A battle that ends with the F.E.A.R. strategy.]

{{Project Fandom notice}}
[[Category:Fanon terminology]]

[[fr:FEAR]]

F.E.A.R.

2011-01-26T16:23:53Z

N-Denizen: /* How to use F.E.A.R. */ - Changes to Gen V section - with Aron, Phanpy and Yuniran

'''F.E.A.R.''' is a last-resort strategy used in competitive battling, normally usable only once per battle. A "F.E.A.R. Pokémon" is a Pokémon compatible with a certain moveset capable of defeating a full-HP opponent at virtually any level (most notably LV 100) while itself is only at LV 1 or 2, the reason being for bragging rights. The most well-known Pokémon used for this strategy is a {{p|Rattata}}.

F.E.A.R. generally stands for:
*[[Focus Sash]]
*{{m|Endeavor}}
*{{m|Quick Attack|(Quick) Attack}}
*{{p|Rattata}}

The original term, coined by strategists as humor, was "'''F'''***ing '''E'''vil '''A'''nnoying '''R'''odent".

The strategy (and original profanity-laden term) was originally conceived on GameFAQs' ''Pokémon Diamond'' [http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/gentopic.php?board=925601 message board] in early 2007.

==How to use F.E.A.R.==
After one of the player's Pokémon faints, the F.E.A.R. Pokémon can be sent out against an opponent's Pokémon with (preferably) full HP. During the first turn, the F.E.A.R. Pokémon will use Endeavor, and the opponent will most likely use an offensive attack to try to defeat the F.E.A.R. Pokémon (assuming, of course, that the opponent isn't aware of this strategy). The F.E.A.R. Pokémon would indeed faint, if it were not holding the Focus Sash, which allows the user to hold on to 1 HP after a hit which would otherwise knock it out from max-HP. When the Pokémon uses Endeavor, the HP of the opponent's Pokémon will equal the HP of its own (which is now, assuming Focus Sash triggered, equal to 1). During the following turn, the F.E.A.R. Pokémon can use Quick Attack to wipe out the remaining 1 HP of the opponent's Pokémon. Focus Sash will not work twice, so a Pokémon can only use this strategy once.

In Generation V, the ability {{a|Sturdy}} was altered to function like a Focus Sash, but can activate multiple times providing the Pokémon regains all of its HP. With this change came new notable users of F.E.A.R. - A level 2 {{p|Probopass}} can use {{m|Pain Split}} to wear down the opponent's HP whilst healing itself, whereas {{p|Aron}} and {{p|Phanpy}} can use a combination of Endeavor and a held [[Shell Bell]] for multiple uses of Endeavor. Generation V also introduced {{p|Yuniran}}, a pokemon able to combine {{a|Magic Guard}} and Endeavor, but also set up {{m|Trick Room}} for its allies.

==Countering F.E.A.R.==
While an impressive strategy, F.E.A.R. is simple to counter. The following are several ways to counter the F.E.A.R. strategy:
* Knowledge: The simplest strategy and perhaps the most effective. If the opponent knows the F.E.A.R. strategy, they won't attack as needed for it to work (a damaging move), or they will switch out for a Pokémon immune to it or easily able to counter it. Besides the other three counters listed here, a player could switch out after the opponent's F.E.A.R. uses Endeavor, leaving it with 1 HP and another Pokémon to sweep the F.E.A.R. However, if the F.E.A.R.-using player predicts correctly, this problem can be solved using Pursuit.
* {{type2|Ghost}}s: As Ghost-types are immune to {{t|Normal}}- and {{type2|Fighting}} attacks, Endeavor and Quick Attack are useless against them. It should be noted however, that a F.E.A.R. {{p|Kangaskhan}} or {{p|Taillow}}{{tt|*|Generation V, Dream World}} with {{a|Scrappy}} will still be able to use Endeavor against a Ghost-type Pokémon.
* A Pokémon with {{m|Quick Attack}}, {{m|ExtremeSpeed}}, {{m|Sucker Punch}}, {{m|Ice Shard}}, or other automatic, first-hit effects: If the opponent uses an increased-priority move at the same time as the F.E.A.R. Pokémon does, the large difference in level will almost always result in the opponent's Pokémon landing the hit first, leaving the opponent with little HP, but leaving the F.E.A.R. player with one Pokémon down, however in Generation V {{m|Feint}} and {{m|ExtremeSpeed}} have +2 priority, and are not countered by +1 priority moves.
*A move that damages foes upon switching in (like {{M|Spikes}} or {{m|Stealth Rock}}) can cancel out the Focus Sash effect, thus causing the foe to be unable to withstand a one-hit KO. This only works if the F.E.A.R. Pokémon isn't released prior to that move.
**Note that Doduo, Taillow, Starly, Togekiss, and Shaymin in its Sky Forme are immune to Spikes.
*Moves, abilities, and statuses that deal damage every turn (like {{m|Sandstorm}} or {{DL|Status ailment|Burn}}) can cancel out Focus Sash's effect. This can also work without using a turn if a Pokémon like {{p|Tyranitar}}, {{p|Hippowdon}}, or {{p|Abomasnow}} activate their abilities. (Note that F.E.A.R. Phanpy, Corsola, Wormadam (Sandy and Trash Cloaks) and Swinub are immune to Sandstorm (and the last one to {{m|Hail}} as well.))
*{{m|Embargo}} prevents the foe from using any item, in this case Focus Sash.
**Do note that, somewhat counterintuitively, {{m|Knock Off}} will '''NOT''' serve to KO a F.E.A.R. Pokémon if it is at 100% HP unless Embargo is in effect. The F.E.A.R. Pokémon's Focus Sash will be knocked off '''after''' it has been successfully activated, and the Pokémon will still be able to use Endeavor to reduce the foe's HP.
* {{DL|In-battle effect item|Leftovers}} (and {{DL|In-battle effect item|Black Sludge}} in the case of {{type2|Poison}} foes) return some HP to the user's Pokémon, and more than likely, more than the opposing F.E.A.R. can deal with its increased-priority move.
*Similarly, if an attacked Pokémon is holding any [[HP]]-restoring [[berry]], the F.E.A.R. Pokémon would not do enough damage to defeat it.
*F.E.A.R.: Ironically, a way to combat a F.E.A.R. Pokémon is having it face another F.E.A.R. Pokémon (or some other low-level Pokémon). Having roughly the same HP, both F.E.A.R.s would do little damage towards each other. It isn't, however, practical or useful to carry a F.E.A.R. Pokémon just for the sake of combating another F.E.A.R., as both Pokémon are about evenly-matched.
*Using a decreased-priority move will leave the Pokémon attacking the F.E.A.R. Pokémon with approximately 12 or so hit points after the first turn and the F.E.A.R. Pokémon will only have 1 health point, causing an easy sweep on the second turn.
*{{p|Shedinja}} and its {{a|Wonder Guard}} ability will make Endeavor unable to hit.
**Note that Sucker Punch can be used to KO Shedinja, but only after its Focus Sash has been activated or otherwise rendered useless.
*Attacks that have multi-hits, ex. {{m|DoubleSlap}}, will negate the Focus Sash.
*In double and triple battles, having two Pokémon use moves that will hit the F.E.A.R. Pokémon will cause it to faint, since the Focus Sash will only activate for the first attack.

==F.E.A.R.-capable Pokémon==
{| {{bluetable2|c sortable}}
|- style="background: #ccf;"
! [[List of Pokémon by National Pokédex number|#]]
! Icon
! Name
! Priority move
! Notes
! Lowest possible level
|-
| 019
| {{MS|019|Rattata (Pokémon)}}
| {{p|Rattata}}
| {{m|Quick Attack}}, {{m|Sucker Punch}}
| Pokémon most well-known to utilize this strategy.
| 1
|-
| 025
| {{MS|025|Pikachu (Pokémon)}}
| {{p|Pikachu}}
| {{M|Quick Attack}}, {{m|Feint}}{{tt|*|Generation V}}
| Only learns Endeavor as a Pichu through the 12th movie event, where it is obtained at level 30. Requires at least one level to evolve. F.E.A.R. Pikachu are always {{shiny}} and in Cherish Balls. Feint is not countered by +1 priority moves{{tt|*|Generation V}}
| 31
|-
| 056
| {{MS|056|Mankey (Pokémon)}}
| {{p|Mankey}}
| {{m|Vacuum Wave}}
| {{game|Platinum}} move tutors required for {{m|Endeavor}} and {{m|Vacuum Wave}}.
| 1
|-
| 062
| {{MS|062|Poliwrath (Pokémon)}}
| {{p|Poliwrath}}
| {{m|Vacuum Wave}}
| {{game|Platinum}} move tutors required for {{m|Vacuum Wave}}.
| 25
|-
| 084
| {{MS|084|Doduo (Pokémon)}}
| {{p|Doduo}}
| {{M|Quick Attack}}
|
| 1
|-
| 115
| {{MS|115|Kangaskhan (Pokémon)}}
| {{p|Kangaskhan}}
| {{M|Sucker Punch}}
| {{game|Platinum}} move tutors required to get {{m|Endeavor}} on a lv. 1 Kangaskhan that knows {{m|Sucker Punch}}. If ability is {{a|Scrappy}}, not countered by {{type2|Ghost}} Pokémon.
| 1
|-
| 151
| {{MS|151|Mew (Pokémon)}}
| {{p|Mew}}
| {{M|Sucker Punch}}, {{m|Vacuum Wave}}
| {{game|Platinum}} move tutors required to get {{m|Endeavor}}, {{m|Sucker Punch}}, and {{m|Vacuum Wave}}.
| 5
|-
| 220
| {{MS|220|Swinub (Pokémon)}}
| {{p|Swinub}}
| {{M|Ice Shard}}
| {{game|Platinum}} move tutors required for {{m|Endeavor}}, Not countered by {{m|Sandstorm}} or {{m|Hail}}.
| 1
|-
| 222
| {{MS|222|Corsola (Pokémon)}}
| {{p|Corsola}}
| {{M|Sucker Punch}}
| {{game|Platinum}} move tutors required for {{m|Sucker Punch}} and {{m|Endeavor}}. Not countered by {{m|Sandstorm}}.
| 1
|-
| 231
| {{MS|231|Phanpy}}
| {{p|Phanpy}}
| {{M|Ice Shard}}
| Not countered by {{m|Sandstorm}}.
| 1
|-
| 232
| {{MS|232|Donphan}}
| {{p|Donphan}}
| {{M|Ice Shard}}
| Not countered by {{m|Sandstorm}}; if ability is {{a|Sturdy}}, Focus Sash can be replaced with Shell Bell, allowing the strategy to be reused.{{tt|*|Generation V}}
| 25
|-
| 235
| {{MS|235|Smeargle (Pokémon)}}
| {{p|Smeargle}}
| {{m|Quick Attack|A}}{{m|Mach Punch|n}}{{m|ExtremeSpeed|y}} {{m|Aqua Jet|p}}{{m|Bullet Punch|r}}{{m|Ice Shard|i}}{{m|Shadow Sneak|or}}{{m|Sucker Punch|it}}{{m|Vacuum Wave|y}} [[Priority#Priority moves|move]]
| Smeargle learns almost any move via {{m|Sketch}}, including {{m|Endeavor}} and any priority move. [[Move relearner]] needed to re-learn Sketch at level 1.
| 1
|-
| 237
| {{MS|237|Hitmontop (Pokémon)}}
| {{p|Hitmontop}}
| {{m|Quick Attack}}, {{m|Vacuum Wave}}, {{m|Bullet Punch}}, {{m|Mach Punch}}, {{m|Sucker Punch}}, {{m|Feint}}{{tt|*|Generation V}}
| {{game|Platinum}} move tutors required for {{m|Sucker Punch}} (and {{m|Endeavor}} at a lower level). Feint is not countered by +1 priority moves{{tt|*|Generation V}}
| 20
|-
| 252
| {{MS|252|Treecko (Pokémon)}}
| {{p|Treecko}}
| {{m|Quick Attack}}
|
| 1
|-
| 276
| {{MS|276|Taillow (Pokémon)}}
| {{p|Taillow}}
| {{m|Quick Attack}}
| Not countered by Ghost-type Pokémon if ability is {{a|Scrappy}}{{tt|*|Generation V, only available from Dream World}}.
| 1
|-
| 304
| {{MS|304|Aron (Pokémon)}}
| {{p|Aron}}
| Other/none
| Give a [[Shell Bell]], Sturdy and Sandstorm support, can be used multiple times. {{tt|*|Generation V only}}
| 1
|-
| 335
| {{MS|335|Zangoose (Pokémon)}}
| {{p|Zangoose}}
| {{m|Quick Attack}}
| {{game|Platinum}} move tutors required for {{m|Endeavor}}.
| 1
|-
| 390
| {{MS|390|Chimchar (Pokémon)}}
| {{p|Chimchar}}
| {{m|Vacuum Wave}}
| {{game|Platinum}} move tutors required for {{m|Endeavor}} and {{m|Vacuum Wave}}.
| 1
|-
| 396
| {{MS|396|Starly (Pokémon)}}
| {{p|Starly}}
| {{m|Quick Attack}}
|
| 1
|-
| 413
| {{MS|413|Wormadam (Pokémon)}}{{MS|413G|Wormadam (Pokémon)}}{{MS|413S|Wormadam (Pokémon)}}
| {{p|Wormadam}}
| {{m|Sucker Punch}}
| All forms, {{game|Platinum}} move tutors required for {{m|Endeavor}} and {{m|Sucker Punch}}. Sandy and Trash Cloaks not countered by {{m|Sandstorm}}.
| 20
|-
| 427
| {{MS|427|Buneary (Pokémon)}}
| {{p|Buneary}}
| {{m|Quick Attack}}
| {{game|Platinum}} move tutors required for {{m|Endeavor}}.
| 1
|-
| 468
| {{MS|468|Togekiss (Pokémon)}}
| {{p|Togekiss}}
| {{m|ExtremeSpeed}}
| {{game|Platinum}} move tutors required for {{m|Endeavor}}. ExtremeSpeed is not countered by +1 priority moves{{tt|*|Generation V}}
| 2
|-
| 492
| {{MS|492|Shaymin (Pokémon)}}{{MS|492S|Shaymin (Pokémon)}}
| {{p|Shaymin}}
| {{m|Quick Attack}}
| Only learns {{m|Quick Attack}} in Sky Form, and only learns {{m|Endeavor}} via move tutor in Land Form.
| 30
|-
| 566
| {{MS|566|Aaken (Pokémon)}}
| {{p|Aaken}}
| {{m|Quick Attack}}
| Not countered by {{m|Sandstorm}}.
| 1
|}

==External Links==
*[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTkLDGtu36Q&fmt=18 A battle that ends with the F.E.A.R. strategy.]

{{Project Fandom notice}}
[[Category:Fanon terminology]]

[[fr:FEAR]]

Talk:Gothitelle (Pokémon)

2010-09-10T03:58:56Z

N-Denizen: /* Accordion reference? */ new section

{{forums notice|March 31, 2011}}

== Origin ==

I noticed the resemblence to this thing from Super Smash Bros. Brawl right away.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a363/SonicAngel948/Gamyga.jpg

It's called the Gamyga. But I'm sure that it and Gochiruzeru are based on the same thing. Can anyone figure out what it is? --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 03:32, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

It's gothic-lolita-mon! --[[User:Pyritie|Pyritie]] 08:07, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

: It's certainly gothic, but does anyone else think it could be the counterpart to {{p|Jynx}}? Both appear to be based on Japanese fashions (ganguro for Jynx), both are humanoid with purple skin, and both are Psychic. I would hesitate to suggest they're actually related through evolution, though. ~ [[User:Serial Colour|Serial Colour]] 19:41, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

::I think it looks more like {{p|Jynx}} actually but that does look like it. {{unsigned|PokemonMaster01}}
:::Leave speculation to the forums, guys. —♥ [[User:Jello|Jel]][[User Talk:Jello|lo]] 18:55, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Hi I'm new I've already been editing a bunch of pages like Wynaut and Abomasnow but I beleive the "zaru" refers to the french word mademoiselle. "Celestial Body" is another term for "astral body" which is the psychic energy from the spirit leaving the body during sleep. I'm probly wrong though the person below who suggests that she is somewhat of a fallen angel seems more right. ([[User:Snozzardi|***Snozzardi***]] 17:57, 27 July 2010 (UTC))
:I think that too little of mademoiselle is used for it to considered a likely origin. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 08:56, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

== Romanization ==

I think it's '''Gothirusel''', though not quite sure what's the second part derived from. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 08:18, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
:My guesses are ''carousel'' (カルーセル karūseru) or ''mademoiselle''.--[[User:Siegfried|Siegfried]] 09:11, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
Also bear in mind that much of the Japanese names have the potential to have several references in them. From what I've gathered, "chiru" is the verb for "to fall, to disperse, to disappear," and considering she's the Celestial body pokemon, this could be a clue as to why she's represented as a Gothic Lolita; Goths are perceived as sad and depressed, and if you're a Celestial Body who has fallen from the heavens, you'd be a sad and depressed too. And I know the "Gochi" part of her name is derived from the Japanese spelling of "Gothic," but there is the potential that they intended for "chiru" to have meaning as well. Now, only to figure out what the "zeru" part means. --[[User:Oleandervine|Oleandervine]] 17:01, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
:Sacrebleu! I think I have figured something out. I have found that the French word "Echelle" means "ladder" or "stairs," and it's also used in astronomy, as the Echelle Grating, which is way of splitting light waves in a spectrograph in order to get clearer readings. Spectrographs are used in astronomy to observe stars, galaxies, and planets using only the light they emit. Anyhoo, the "zeru" portion of her name could be a cut-off part of "echelle, and since it's is used in astronomy, and means "ladder" or "stairs," it could be why this little pokemon has the stacked, tiered look to her (almost ladder like) and it could be a link to the Celestial bodies which she is the pokemon of. --[[User:Oleandervine|Oleandervine]] 17:01, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

This may seem silly, but considering that "r" in Japanese = "l" in English, I'm guessing Gothilasel.
Gochi = Gothi
ruz = las(s)
eru = (mademois)el(le)
[[User:Manaphyman1232|Manaphyman1232]] 04:48, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

== Sprite ==

LINK REMOVED --Knight89 17:30, 17 July 2010 (UTC)
:Yeah, we're not using that. Serebii gets very grumpy when we steal his images. <sc>[[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]]</sc> [[User talk:Werdnae|(talk)]] 20:37, 17 July 2010 (UTC)
::Then use [http://http://archives.bulbagarden.net/wiki/File:SpriteGochiruzeru.gif this one!] It wasn't stolen, it was borrowed with permission! --[[User:Tailzfoxy96|Tailzfoxy96]] 00:51, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
:::I deleted it: it's gif, not what we'd like... [[User:Ht14|'''''ht''''']][[User talk:Ht14|''14'']] 00:59, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

== Accordion reference? ==

Wasn't entirely sure where to put this, but i'll go ahead. A recent video shows Gochi's cry, which sounds almost like an accordion. That, along with the way she looks and moves, also points to this. Perhaps this is an indicator of its origin, and maybe romanisation too.. [[User:N-Denizen|N-Denizen]] 03:58, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

Gothizeru

2010-08-30T20:30:38Z

N-Denizen: Redirected page to Gochiruzeru (Pokémon)

#Redirect [[Gochiruzeru (Pokémon)]]

Gochizeru

2010-08-30T20:30:18Z

N-Denizen: Redirected page to Gochiruzeru (Pokémon)

#Redirect [[Gochiruzeru (Pokémon)]]

Gothiruzeru

2010-08-30T20:29:46Z

N-Denizen: Redirected page to Gochiruzeru (Pokémon)

#Redirect [[Gochiruzeru (Pokémon)]]

Ranculus

2010-08-30T20:23:21Z

N-Denizen: Redirected page to Rankurusu (Pokémon)

#Redirect [[Rankurusu (Pokémon)]]

Talk:Wobbuffet (Pokémon)

2010-08-11T22:17:01Z

N-Denizen: /* The Tail */

Ummm.... how, in Trivia, does Wobbuffet use Encore? It doesn't learn it according to the moves list [[User:DanJimi|DanJimi]] 07:54, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
:Because Wynaut knows it. If Wynaut evolves then you don't have to erase the move. --[[Image:Ani048MS.gif]]'''[[Tracey Sketchit|ケンジ]]'''[[Image:Ani183MS.gif]]'''[[User:Kenji-girl|ガール]]'''[[Image:Ani123MS.gif]] 09:27, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

>Does anyone remember the name of the Japanese celebrity this Pokemon is based on? The comedian who would tell humorous stories, then put a hand to his head and go "Sonansu!" The full data used to be up on Itomaru's site, which is apparently dead.

- Zeta

The part on here about 'buffet' refering to how it strikes its forehead...I don't think that's true. The image I get is one of those blow-up punching bags with sand in the bottom, and no matter how hard you hit it, it just pops back up.

Well, I was about halfway to insane running through all these name etymology sections. I probably focused on the '''hit repeatedly''' part instead of '''buffet'''...

As for the toy you are talking about... I think that's what {{p|Baltoy}} is supposed to be named after, no? Not sure though. - [[User:Zhen Lin|振霖]][[User talk:Zhen Lin|T]] 10:01, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Um...no, not even close...

The person who wrote about the blow-up punching bag is correct. I don't know if there is a separate name for it (different than simply "punching bag"), though, so I just linked to the Wikipedia article on "punching bag." I also added the name of Sanpei Hayashiya, the comedian in question. -[[User:Argy|Argy]]

What is the other of the "two non-legendary Pokémon to be considered "uber" in the metagame" described in the trivia? Adding that information seems like a good idea.{{unsigned|Thembi}}
:It's Wynaut. Virtually the same as Wobbuffet, only with slightly lower stats, a slightly larger move pool, and it's cuter. [[User:Diachronos|Diachronos]] 16:26, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
::In the trivia it says "one of three". Looking at the list of tiers, unless I'm blind or something, I only see Wobbuffet and Wynaut as non-legendary ubers.--[[User:Wantlimepie|Wantlimepie]] 18:29, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
:::We don't talk about tiers in the main namespace, because they get screwed around with so much. Apparently, Garchomp was recently moved to Uber by some sources, but since there's no really official way to keep track of that sort of thing, we're not going to mention it. --[[User:Martonimos|((Marton]] [[User talk:Martonimos|imos))]] 18:51, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
::::From what I hear, Smogon makes up most of this "metagame" stuff, so it's like the unofficial official authority on who's uber and who's not. So... three or two?--[[User:Wantlimepie|Wantlimepie]] 14:26, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Uh Okay?{{ani|486}}[[User:Pokemaniac102|<big>'''''Poke'''''</big>]][[User talk:Pokemaniac102|'''''Maniac''''']][[Special:Contributions/Pokemaniac102|<big>'''''102'''''</big>]]{{ani|492}} 20:03, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

== Not knowing is noteworthy now? ==

''It is '''unknown''' where the female Wobbuffet's "lipsticks" come from.''

Merely the lack of mentioning it implies that. What would be trivia-worthy would be knowing where the red lips come from. We might as well just stick this with every Pokémon that has clothes "It is unknown where Jynx got her dress"--[[User:Outrage DD|Outrage DD]] 02:42, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Surely if you're that worried, why not remove it?--[[User:Tmwps|Thomas Michael William Patrick Sales]] 09:19, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

== Big image ==

The image on right is way too big. And it doesn't seem to accept size... — [[User:Tenno Seremel|Tenno Seremel]] 09:11, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

== Inky? ==

Why is this in the origin section?: "It may also be based on Inky from the Pac-Man series." I can see no resemblance at all between them other than the fact that they're both blue and somewhat blob-like. And they have two eyes. We might as well say that Ditto is based on Pinky.--[[User:Celebi96|Celebi96]] 16:14, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
:it is there because it is a slight possibility.--[[user:Mtn otter|Mtn otter]] We are the Void 13:32, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

== Possible origin? ==

I think that it may be based on the concept of Karma because of the way it can only cause damage if it's foe attacks. Has anyone else thought of this or am I completly insane?[[User:Mtn otter|Mtn otter]] 20:38, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
: Doesn't "Karma" seem a bit far-fetched? Not everything that bounces back is a magical asian concept. My vote is for removing it from the trivia. {{unsigned|PLA}}

== The Tail ==

Nothing seems to really mention a common theory of Wobbuffet - that the actual body itself is a fake (since it's a blow-up doll) and Wobbuffet itself is actually just the tail, hence why Wobbuffet hangs around in dark places to disguise its tail and why it uses Destiny Bond when the tail is attacked. The tail is the only living part of Wobbuffet. [[User:N-Denizen|N-Denizen]] 22:17, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Wobbuffet (Pokémon)

2010-08-11T22:16:07Z

N-Denizen: /* The Tail */ new section

Talk:Reuniclus (Pokémon)

2010-07-31T16:00:50Z

N-Denizen: /* Origin */

{{forums notice|March 31, 2011}}

== Artwork ==

Could someone please edit the artwork for this Pokémon, because it looks a little badly cropped, due to the yellow in the hand. [[User:Pawsrent|Pawsrent]] 23:03, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
:Be patient young one, these are directly cropped from the magazine scans, we're going to have to wait for better artwork. —♥ [[User:Jello|Jel]][[User Talk:Jello|lo]] 23:21, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

== Name ==

I'm not sure about the validity of the name origin, but if it is correct, why don't we cut out the middle-man and rename the article "Ronculus?" Wargle's article isn't "Warugaru." [[User:BulbaB|BulbaB]] 14:42, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

The name could also be romanized as "Rancluse", the cluse coming from the word recluse, which means someone who lives in seclusion or solitude, it could be a reference to the fact that the white body is inside the green....ectoplasm or energy or whatever it could possibly be. As you can see romanization's are never absolute. Because of this, its best to wait for official romanization's or just plain out wait for english names. --[[User:Yunophobia|Yunophobia]] 00:34, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

== Version Exclusive and height correction ==

According to the official Black and White website, Rankurusu will be exclusive to White version.
Also according to the site, Rankurusu is 1.0m, not 1.6m

== Name origin ==

The article says that its name comes from ''ran'' (disorder), but it could also be from ''ranma'' (chaos). --[[User:Shiny Noctowl|Shiny Noctowl]] 16:53, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

: It seems to me that Rankurusu's name is the word "rankless", as in, "without rank". Being the Amplification Pokémon (presumably amplifying other things), perhaps its own actual "rank" (strength, whatever) is unknown, hence the name. Alternatively, it could come from "rancorous", meaning "showing deep-seated resentment". These depend on the story behind Rankurusu, but they sound interesting enough to be true. ~ [[User:Serial Colour|Serial Colour]] 19:30, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
::I'm the one who put ''ran'', because that's the kanji used in ''ranma''. I looked at the meaning of both kanji and it's the ''ran'' in ''ranma'' that gives the word its meaning. --[[User:Phantomjunkie|Phantom]][[User talk:Phantomjunkie|junkie]] 22:35, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

== Sprite ==

I've taken the image from the updated site, edited it a bit, and shazam, we have (What I think is) a half-assed attempt at a sprite~

[http://i29.tinypic.com/25857wl.png Here ya' are]

Hope it helps, and sorry if it's not in good enough quality :/{{unsigned|Omnis}}

==Origin==

Rankurusu appears to be based on a [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tardigrade Tardigrade] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homunculus Homunculus]. --[[User:Green Kricketune|Green Kricketune]] 22:10, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
: Where on earth are you getting the connection to the Tardigrade from?? That seems like speculation to me, it doesn't seem to fit well at all with this Pokemon. --[[User:Oleandervine|Oleandervine]] 23:38, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
::I think Green Kricketune is right, it's based on a Homunculus. The reason it's called "Amplification" pokemon as far as I can see, is because a Homunuculus also refers to a model of a human body where certain sensory parts, such as Hands, Ears, Mouth etc. are made larger in proportion to how sensitive they are ([http://lacalmette.midiblogs.com/media/01/01/0aa7ad714f4c9d40ea13e5d484cdb348.jpg Image]) - they are in a sense "Amplified", though I can't help wonder if the translation may be a bit off without the Psychological context. Design wise, it explains why the small body inside is fairly small, yet the gooey body is large, the hands and ears bigger than the rest of the body. The design itself is probably based on the idea that there is a small human inside eggs and sperm, hence the plasma thing it's got going on. It's almost worth mentioning that an anime called "Ghost Hound" addressed this idea too, with people having Out Of Body Experiences, where they'd fall asleep and their homunculus would emerge to float around a little dream-world - the homunculus looked like blobby/gooey/plasma-y baby type thing, with little oddly coloured organs and spheres inside the body. That's very similar to the design of Rankurusu. From this, it also seems the more likely romanisation is going to be "Ranculus" or "Lanculus" [[User:N-Denizen|N-Denizen]] 13:54, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
I said that it was based on a Tardigrade for it's gelatinous structure, bear-like face in the homunculus, and it's abilities, [[Magic Guard]] and [[Dust-Proof]], respectively, refer to it's adaptability and it's position as a polyextremophile. Also, thanks for the Support, N-Denizen! [[User:Green Kricketune|Green Kricketune]] 14:47, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
::The Tardigrade analogy is also a good one, I have to say. With the bear features, and its survival abilities, that also makes sense. A pokemon being inspired by a creature that can survive in a vacuum is very likely, too, it provides a direct analogy to its Magic Guard and Dust Proof abilities. When it curls up, it looks like Rankurusu's main body, as well. So I guess this is like...a fusion of sorts? That's pretty cool, does it explain the first part of its name, though? [[User:N-Denizen|N-Denizen]] 15:52, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
::Actually, if "Ranma" means "Chaos", then that could be it. Tardigrades can survive in chaotic conditions, but that's a wild guess [[User:N-Denizen|N-Denizen]] 16:00, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Reuniclus (Pokémon)

2010-07-31T15:52:50Z

N-Denizen: /* Origin */

Talk:Reuniclus (Pokémon)

2010-07-31T15:52:00Z

N-Denizen: /* Origin */

{{forums notice|March 31, 2011}}

== Artwork ==

Could someone please edit the artwork for this Pokémon, because it looks a little badly cropped, due to the yellow in the hand. [[User:Pawsrent|Pawsrent]] 23:03, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
:Be patient young one, these are directly cropped from the magazine scans, we're going to have to wait for better artwork. —♥ [[User:Jello|Jel]][[User Talk:Jello|lo]] 23:21, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

== Name ==

I'm not sure about the validity of the name origin, but if it is correct, why don't we cut out the middle-man and rename the article "Ronculus?" Wargle's article isn't "Warugaru." [[User:BulbaB|BulbaB]] 14:42, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

The name could also be romanized as "Rancluse", the cluse coming from the word recluse, which means someone who lives in seclusion or solitude, it could be a reference to the fact that the white body is inside the green....ectoplasm or energy or whatever it could possibly be. As you can see romanization's are never absolute. Because of this, its best to wait for official romanization's or just plain out wait for english names. --[[User:Yunophobia|Yunophobia]] 00:34, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

== Version Exclusive and height correction ==

According to the official Black and White website, Rankurusu will be exclusive to White version.
Also according to the site, Rankurusu is 1.0m, not 1.6m

== Name origin ==

The article says that its name comes from ''ran'' (disorder), but it could also be from ''ranma'' (chaos). --[[User:Shiny Noctowl|Shiny Noctowl]] 16:53, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

: It seems to me that Rankurusu's name is the word "rankless", as in, "without rank". Being the Amplification Pokémon (presumably amplifying other things), perhaps its own actual "rank" (strength, whatever) is unknown, hence the name. Alternatively, it could come from "rancorous", meaning "showing deep-seated resentment". These depend on the story behind Rankurusu, but they sound interesting enough to be true. ~ [[User:Serial Colour|Serial Colour]] 19:30, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
::I'm the one who put ''ran'', because that's the kanji used in ''ranma''. I looked at the meaning of both kanji and it's the ''ran'' in ''ranma'' that gives the word its meaning. --[[User:Phantomjunkie|Phantom]][[User talk:Phantomjunkie|junkie]] 22:35, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

== Sprite ==

I've taken the image from the updated site, edited it a bit, and shazam, we have (What I think is) a half-assed attempt at a sprite~

[http://i29.tinypic.com/25857wl.png Here ya' are]

Hope it helps, and sorry if it's not in good enough quality :/{{unsigned|Omnis}}

==Origin==

Rankurusu appears to be based on a [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tardigrade Tardigrade] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homunculus Homunculus]. --[[User:Green Kricketune|Green Kricketune]] 22:10, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
: Where on earth are you getting the connection to the Tardigrade from?? That seems like speculation to me, it doesn't seem to fit well at all with this Pokemon. --[[User:Oleandervine|Oleandervine]] 23:38, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
::I think Green Kricketune is right, it's based on a Homunculus. The reason it's called "Amplification" pokemon as far as I can see, is because a Homunuculus also refers to a model of a human body where certain sensory parts, such as Hands, Ears, Mouth etc. are made larger in proportion to how sensitive they are ([http://lacalmette.midiblogs.com/media/01/01/0aa7ad714f4c9d40ea13e5d484cdb348.jpg Image]) - they are in a sense "Amplified", though I can't help wonder if the translation may be a bit off without the Psychological context. Design wise, it explains why the small body inside is fairly small, yet the gooey body is large, the hands and ears bigger than the rest of the body. The design itself is probably based on the idea that there is a small human inside eggs and sperm, hence the plasma thing it's got going on. It's almost worth mentioning that an anime called "Ghost Hound" addressed this idea too, with people having Out Of Body Experiences, where they'd fall asleep and their homunculus would emerge to float around a little dream-world - the homunculus looked like blobby/gooey/plasma-y baby type thing, with little oddly coloured organs and spheres inside the body. That's very similar to the design of Rankurusu. From this, it also seems the more likely romanisation is going to be "Ranculus" or "Lanculus" [[User:N-Denizen|N-Denizen]] 13:54, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
I said that it was based on a Tardigrade for it's gelatinous structure, bear-like face in the homunculus, and it's abilities, [[Magic Guard]] and [[Dust-Proof]], respectively, refer to it's adaptability and it's position as a polyextremophile. Also, thanks for the Support, N-Denizen! [[User:Green Kricketune|Green Kricketune]] 14:47, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
::The Tardigrade analogy is also a good one, I have to say. With the bear features, and its survival abilities, that also makes sense. A pokemon being inspired by a creature that can survive in a vacuum is very likely, too. When it curls up, it looks like Rankurusu's main body, as well. So I guess this is like...a fusion of sorts? That's pretty cool, does it explain the first part of its name, though?

Talk:Reuniclus (Pokémon)

2010-07-31T13:54:45Z

N-Denizen: /* Origin */