Bulbapedia - User contributions [en]

Talk:Arceus (Pokémon)/Archive 1

2008-12-10T19:37:19Z

Monblazon: /* Alpha, not Omega */

<big><big><big>'''HEY GUYS GUESS WHAT. THE PAGE HAS CODING ON IT SO THAT THE TYPE WILL CHANGE RANDOMLY (or not so much, really just according to the time). DON'T ASK WHY ARCEUS IS A {{UC:{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|0=???|1=Normal|2=Fighting|3=Flying|4=Poison|5=Ground|6=Rock|7=Bug|8=Ghost|9=Steel|10=Fire|11=Water|12=Grass|13=Electric|14=Psychic|15=Ice|16=Dragon|17=Dark}}}}-TYPE! It just IS!'''</big></big></big> (Also keep in mind that it doesn't matter which type it is; you guys are smart, you can tell what moves are STAB for which plate... I hope...)
----

Um, {{u|TTEchidna}}, you put down that Arseus can become an ???-type Pokémon by holding a ??? Plate. Where'd you get that from?--[[User:Pokencyclopedia|Pokencyclopedia]] 21:35, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Man u have got to be kidding me Arceus catch rate should not be 3. I used my Action replay to get the item 4 arceus then i went and caought it on my 5th dusk ball. My friend caought it on him 1st ultra ball. Another friend i gave the item 2 caught it on his 2nd qiuck ball- ''unsigned comment from [[User:Arguntom|Arguntom]] ([[User talk:Arguntom|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Arguntom|contribs]]){{ #if: | {{{2}}} |}}''
:Man, you have to be kidding me, you can't even spell the word "you" right. Arceus's catch rate is 3. If you'll notice, those balls multiply the catch rate formula by quite a bit, which greatly increases the chance to be caught. Plus, it's all on luck, I've had Magikarp break out of balls before. --'''[[User:TTEchidna|T]][[User talk:TTEchidna|T]][[wp:Echidna|Echidna]]''' 22:36, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

I added an alternative origin to Arceus's name that I found on: http://www.serebiiforums.com/showthread.php?t=286767.[[User:Draconium|Draconium]] 23:42, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

==Is there a point...==
Is there a point of having a table for each of the plates when it is attached to Arceus?
We could just have Arceus without a plate, and then have each title with an image and a sentence saying what type Arceus changes to.
For Example:

==Type effectiveness==
===No plate equipped===
{{DP type effectiveness|
type1=normal|
Normal= 100 |
Fighting=200 |
Flying= 100 |
Poison= 100 |
Ground= 100 |
Rock= 100 |
Bug= 100 |
Ghost= 0 |
Steel= 100 |

Fire= 100 |
Water= 100 |
Grass= 100 |
Electric=100 |
Psychic= 100 |
Ice= 100 |
Dragon= 100 |
Dark= 100 }}
[[Image:Spr 4d 493-Fire.png|thumb|right|Sprite for {{type2|Fire}} Arceus]]
===With Flame Plate===
When the Flame Plate is attached to Arceus, it becomes a Fire type.

etc... [[User:Tesh|Tesh]] 23:06, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

==Picture==
I have this picture:

[[Image:Arceus.PNG]]

I did not draw it. I want to use it on the page. It is much better than trying to stare at a tiny sprite. --[[User:Stinkoman|Stinkoman]] 15:08, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

:Better than a sprite for sure, but it'd be nice if we could find one without such bad compression artifacts. [[User:Invisible Shiny Bulbasaur|Invisible Shiny Bulbasaur]] 22:30, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
::I don't think we should really be using an unofficial image for the page. What would be nice is if somebody could get a nice, high-quality (as in NOT a photo of the monitor) screenshot of ARceus from PBR.--[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 01:22, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
:::You mean hack an Arceus and copy it into PBR?
[[Image:Psychic-attack.png|Psychic]][[Image:Ani475MS.gif]] '''[[User:Optimus35|Agent]] [[Gallade (Pokémon)|448]][[User talk:Optimus35|Talk]] | [[User:Optimus35/Diamond&Pearl|DP]]''' [[Image:Fighting-attack.png|Fighting]] 11:46, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

== Sprites? ==

Should we include separate sprite templates for all of the forms, or just do it for one? I know that Unown and Castform, among others, would serve the same problem. '''[[User:TTEchidna|T]][[User talk:TTEchidna|T]][[wp:Echidna|Echidna]]''' 22:10, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

== Art?! ==

I'd like to know the source of Arceus' picture. Mainly because it hasn't been revealed yet. TinaTheKirlia 02:44, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
:It's a piece of fanart. --[[User:DarkfireTaimatsu|DarkfireTaimatsu]] 02:47, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
::That's what I thought, although there was an edit that said "Official Art" or something and it was rather confusing. TinaTheKirlia 16:29, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
I think we should replace that art with a sprite. It seems inaccurate... Mariocaper 19:19, 20 September 2007

Yeah, and we could enlarge the size of the sprite so it won't be that tiny anymore, right? [[Image:Psychic-attack.png|Psychic]]http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/sprites/dpiconani/dpiconani475.gif '''[[User:Optimus35|Optimus35]][[User talk:Optimus35|Talk]] | [[User:Optimus35/Diamond&Pearl|DP]]''' [[Image:Fighting-attack.png|Fighting]] 06:45, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
:Enlarged sprites look terrible. --[[User:DarkfireTaimatsu|DarkfireTaimatsu]] 06:49, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
::Couldn't we get a PBR screenshot? And I mean a screenshot, not someone pointing their camera at a television? (We need that for Rosy and Sashay, too...)--[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 07:13, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
::I can't, my FRAPS only works on full screen games like Maple Story...I think we could take the Arceus photo, enlarge it and sharpen it a little, then put it back on bulba. The only problem with this is that the sprite would be oversize...
:::I hope that you have permission to use that piece of fan art. --[[Special:Contributions/Kenji-girl|☆]][[Tracey Sketchit|ケンジ]][[User:Kenji-girl|ガール]] 21:27, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
::::I've got five PBR shots. They're all in my [[User:Optimus35/Sandbox|sandbox]]. Click on the links under 'Arceus'. Tell me which one looks best on my talk page and I'll upload it onto Bulbagarden Archives...[[Image:Ani475MS.gif]] '''[[User:Optimus35|Agent]] [[User:Optimus35/Mission|4]][[User:Optimus35/Emerald|4]][[Gallade (Pokémon)|8]][[User talk:Optimus35|δ]] | [[User:Optimus35/Diamond&Pearl|DP]]''' | [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?limit=50&title=Special%3AContributions&contribs=user&target=Optimus35&namespace=0&year=&month=-1 ☆][[Image:Ani282MS.gif]] 09:01, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Change the pic!
[[User:Crystallucario|Crystallucario]] 14:54, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
:The reason why we're not changing it is because it's nicely done fanart, and it's more easier to look at this instead of a sprite.
:Otherwise it'd be absolute hell for me to draw Arceus. Still is, but certainly more easier than looking at a sprite. :p [[User:Tina|Tina]] [[Special:Contributions/Tina|δ]][[User talk:Tina|♫]] 16:40, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
hmmm maybe ok whatever...
[[User:Crystallucario|CrystalLucario 12:23, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
::...except, do we have permission to use the image? The image page doesn't seem to claim it at all, so I'm going to go ahead and guess that we're doing something illegal or at least unethical here. Seriously, why can't we just use a PBR shot?[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 00:58, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
:::Since when was pokemon ever ethical? Think about it, the aim of the game is to run away from home at 10 years old (good parenting skills mom) and after having abuse a poor little starly to the brink of death by slashing it over and over again with false swipe you throw something at it, only adding to the poor creature's pain and torture only to trap it inside a small, cramped chamber for the rest of its unnatural life whilst using it to abuse other pokemon. But anyways I digress, the point is the piece of fanart looks nice, is accurate and fits in perfectly with all the official pokemon artwork. Hell when I first visited the page I thought it WAS a piece of official artwork. A PBR snapshot would not be at all as effective as the fanart. So no, we ain't havin a PBR shot. [[User:Wikid|Wikid]] 16:20, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

::::No one is questioning the ethics of the series, just in using someone else's work without their consent. Besides, the face is drawn wrong. There should be more lines running across it. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 16:28, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

:::::The artwork in question is drawn by Seyanni of Deviant Art. If no one has contacted him yet for permission, I could see if I can get a PM through, though I'm not sure if this would be the correct thing to do in this case. The fan art is, as mentioned above, not completely accurate, as Arceus has one more line running across its face, and the "wheel" on its body is also conflicting with what is shown not only on the sprite, but what is shown in PBR (a more pointed frame, with gems in the crosses, not green circles). If there's no permission (currently not proven) and because it's innaccurate, isn't the right thing to put the sprite up until the official art is revealed? However, if the quality of the sprite is the concern (many seem to be worried about the overall look of the page), perhaps I could offer you the rights to use my art on this page? It's 100% PBR and sprite accurate, and the quality is clear and it looks professional. I'm not trying to start another image battle here, but I do believe that if the overall look of the page is the concern, coupled with the accuracy of the fan art, then my work would fill the role. If you're willing to look into it, I'm Xous54 on deviant art, and the work I'm willing to allow use of is http://xous54.deviantart.com/art/Official-Pose-of-Arceus-100490528 . I can resize the piece and remove the signatures if this wiki finds the piece acceptable for the replacement.[[User:Xous|Xous]] 19:33, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

== Metronome ==

My Mew used Judgement through Metronome. Should I include something like this under "Trivia":

Although Nintendo is attempting to keep Arceus secret, it is possible for Arceus's signature move, {{m|Judgment}}, to be used through {{m|Metronome}}, thus potentially revealing the existence of Arceus to otherwise unaware fans.

--[[User:Shiny Noctowl|Shiny Noctowl]][[User talk:Shiny Noctowl|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Shiny Noctowl|Contribs]][[Image:Ani480MS.gif]] 20:33, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

i could draw arceus if that would help. i like drawing pokémon. {{u|talonclawz}} new comer!!!!!!!!!! [[Image:Ani444MS.gif‎]]

== Shishigami? ==

Should any mention of the Forest Spirit Shishigami from Miyazaki Hayao's Mononoke-Hime be mentioned in the article? Arceus seems to have a resemblance to Shishigami. In addition, on the illegal hacked Pokémon Diamond (Telefang Power), Shishigami appears on the front, despite not having anything to do with the game (that's the way those criminals work), and then in the real Pokémon Diamond, Arceus was added. Does anyone else think that some trivia should be added about this? ~Kumori Satosuke
:Outside of the whole quadrupedal thing, I don't think there's anything else that's official to suggest a connection. For example, Arceus seems to be nothing outside of a creator, while shishigami is given dominion over life and death.--[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 03:27, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
::Yes, I agree. There really isn't anything linking the two other than a vague (And I do mean VAGUE.) resemblance. --[[User:Dual|Dual]] 14:15, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

== ??? type sprite may prevent crash ==
Just a theory, but the programmers at Game Freak may have drawn and programmmed a ??? type Arceus to prevent game crashes. Anyone with a code patcher can figure out how to change a Pokémon's type. They might have figured that someone would tamper with Arceus's type, and if they changed it to a ??? type, and there was no sprite for it, the game would crash because it would try loading data that does not exist. That's my theory anyway. [[User:Fsilone|Fsilone]] 02:10, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
:That's really logical. figure that by yourself? But I still don't know if we should put that in the article.[[Image:Ani471MS.gif]][[User:Pokemaniac102|'''Poke''''''maniac''''''102''']][[Image:AniEggMS.gif]] 02:17, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

::im a little iffy on the grammer, but other than that i think its a fantastic theory and should be in the trivia section. excellent. now all i need to do is figure out how to do it myself in my game with the Action Replay... [[Image:Ani081MS.gif|35px]][[User:MAGNEDETH|MAGNEDETH]][[Image:Ani082MS.gif|35px]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|TALK]][[Image:Ani462MS.gif|35px]] 02:30, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

:::You can't - you need to edit the rom data - action replay only edits temporary and save data. Think so anyway. '''[[:User:Origamiguy|折り紙ガイ]] - [[:User_talk:Origamiguy|離す]][[:Special:Contributions/Origamiguy|貢献]]''' 15:37, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

I think I don't see anything grammatically wrong. I copied the words above and reworded it into sentences.[[Image:Ani471MS.gif]][[User:Pokemaniac102|'''Poke''''''maniac''''''102''']][[Image:AniEggMS.gif]] 02:34, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

:yea, im probibly wrong, im not joking when i say i failed english class......twice...with a 54..... [[Image:Ani081MS.gif|35px]][[User:MAGNEDETH|MAGNEDETH]][[Image:Ani082MS.gif|35px]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|TALK]][[Image:Ani462MS.gif|35px]] 03:42, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

what the heck is shishigami? is it a pokémon?(someone out there?) -{{u|talonclawz}} new comer!!!!! [[Image:212MS.gif]] 1:06, 5 April 2008

No. Wait a minute if you don't know that Errr...how new are you to Pokémon?[[User:Crystallucario|'''''Crystal''''']] [[User talk:Crystallucario|'''''Lucario''''']] 17:43, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

A shishigami is a Japanese god of death. [[User:LordKaien|LordKaien]] 14:51, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

== {{type2|???}} Sprite ==

[[Image:Question-Type Arceus Before.jpg|thumb|left|Before]][[Image:Question-Type Arceus After.jpg|thumb|right|After]]How long has the sprite of ???-type Arceus been pulling that vanishing act? Basically, the only time you can see the sprite is when the white background on PNG-format images is still visible, as seen in the Before shot. Once the white backgrounds vanish, the rest of the sprite should still be there. However, on ???-type Arceus, the sprite vanishes along with the background, as seen in the After shot. Is there a way to fix this?

(The shots in question come from an area of my own user page, specifically a [[Template:User Favorite Move|favorite move tag]] programmed for a ???-type move and {{m|Curse}} with the Arceus sprite in question for a laugh. The [[Template:User 2000|2000-edits in a month tag]] above it is also shown for comparison.) --[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 05:41, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

:Wow. That's weird that it just disappears! --[[Image:Spr 3e 059.gif|70px]][[Image:Spr 3e 132.gif]]'''[[User:Theryguy512|Theryguy]][[User:Theryguy512/Contribution Page|5]][[User:Theryguy512/Mission Page|1]][[User:Theryguy512/Sandbox|2]]''' [[Image:Trozeiani025.gif]] 11:59, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
I think I figured out the vanishing act. It's due to the filename. Many operating systems don't allow question marks in filenames, and it's probably due to those that caused the image to vanish. I went and uploaded an image to [[a:Image:Spr 4d 493-Unknown.png|Image:Spr 4d 493-Unknown.png]] on the archives, and that image works as it should! Every instance of the vanishing image has been changed to the one that doesn't vanish, so you won't be seeing vanishing ???-type Arceus again anytime soon. --[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 16:37, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

== Pic ==

Okay, I remember {{u|Urutapu}} saying something about a screenshot of Arceus from PBR. Well, I got a Wii ''and'' PBR for Christmas. And I have *cough*cheated*cough* four Arceuses. All I need now is a good-quality emulator that can screenshot my Wii with. Any suggestions?
--{{u|Stinkoman}}

Somehow theres a way of putting a SCART socket into your PC and running it through that. My mate's computer can do that but i think it had the socket when he bought it. [[Image:Ani258MS.gif]][[User:Origamiguy|OrigamiGuy]] Lieks [[Mudkip (Pokémon)|Mudkipz]][[Image:Ani258MS.gif]]

== Officially been revealed ==
Until this Pokemon has been officially revealed (by Nintendo or Coro Coro magazine) this page should be removed, because the only reason why there is proof of its existence is through a hacking or cheating device.
:WHAT! This page should be included on here. If it is in the Game, weather or not if it has been reaveled, it IS STILL IN THE GAME WITHOUT HAVING TO BE MADE{{Ani|493}}[[User:Darth Cookie Monster|'''C ''']]{{Ani|491}}[[User talk:Darth Cookie Monster|''' Is''']]{{Ani|426}}[[User:Darth Cookie Monster/My Story|'''for Cookie''']]{{Ani|473}}
::Yea, this page is about a Pokémon. In case you don't know (hopefully you do), this is a Pokémon encyclopedia. This page is like mandatory. --'''[[User:Theryguy512|Theryguy]][[User talk:Theryguy512|5]][[User:Theryguy512/Contribution Page|1]][[User:Theryguy512/Similarities|2]]''' 02:12, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
:::Exactly. We have pages for all Pokémon ''officially programmed into the games''. Would you come here before Deoxys was revealed and say "NUH UH THERE'S ONLY 201 IN HOENN DEOXYS IS A HAKKER ONLY POKEMAN." Arceus is official, they're just holding off on the official revelation. Besides... plenty of Pokémon from each generation were never revealed through CoroCoro or by Nintendo individually. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]][[Image:Ani155MS.gif|Fire echy]]''' 07:07, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

I may only be 10, but take it from me. Arceus is real. It is on pokemon.com's pokedex.[[User:DaPikanator56|DaPikanator56]] 18:47, 22 March 2008 (UTC){{u|DaPikanator56}}
:Well, actually, it's not on the PokéDex on [[Pokemon.com]], but yes, it is real. --'''[[User:Theryguy512|Theryguy]][[User talk:Theryguy512|5]][[User:Theryguy512/Contribution Page|1]][[User:Theryguy512/Similarities|2]]''' 13:17, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
::An example of what TTE said would be the Porygons. '''<sc>[[User:Optimus35|{{tt|Optimatum♏|Optimus35}}]]</sc>[[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|♊]]02:32 30 Mar 2008'''

Oh yeah! It and ummm... {{p|Shaymin}} I think aren't Theryguy.[[User:DaPikanator56|DaPikanator56]] 18:52, 30 March 2008 (UTC){{u|DaPikanator56}}
:Shaymin has been acknowledged by official Japanese sources. And to address the original point, we are not Wikipedia. Everyone knows that Arceus is real, so this page is a necessity. Hell, we have articles for a lot of glitch Pokémon so a real one definately passes. --[[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] [[User talk:Fabu-Vinny|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Fabu-Vinny|C]]-[[User:Fabu-Vinny/Sandbox|S]] 23:52, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

True...Oh, and by the way, in the summer I will shorten my visits here, but this place rules! It ain't demented like Chuckie Cheese's.
:) ^-^[[User:DaPikanator56|DaPikanator56]] 22:31, 3 April 2008 (UTC)DaPikanator56

Arceus is already in the game (I actually have it (with the help of an Action Replay of course)), so this page doesn't need to go anywhere. Little do people know, Arceus is probably watching the whole time the player is beating up Team Galactic and catching Dialga/Palkia, seeing as the platform Arceus is on is floating over the Spear Pillar. [[User:Diachronos|Diachronos]] 18:03, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

==Picture==

I found this picture interesting, but low quality. [http://www.pokebeach.com/news/0507/arceus.jpg its on www.pokebeach.com] --[[User:Britannia's Blade|Britannia's Blade]] 21:25, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
:Good find, but it's already linked from the article [[Arceus (Pokémon)#External links|right here]]. --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 23:38, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

------------
I also just found this one [http://www.arkeis.com/images/pokemonfactory/arceus.png ****] Fan art of course but very serious looking, Lots more like it [http://www.arkeis.com/legendaries.htm here] what do you think? --[[User:Britannia's Blade|Britannia's Blade]] 18:47, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
:I don't see how fanart is very notable to put up here.. >_> [[User:Tina|Tina]] [[Special:Contributions/Tina|δ]][[User talk:Tina|♫]] 19:06, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
::The one we have right now will do us until Arcy is revealed next year. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 20:37, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
:::What about this one? - [http://www.pokebeach.com/news/0507/arceus2.jpg (1)] '''[[:User:Origamiguy|折り紙ガイ]] - [[:User_talk:Origamiguy|離す]][[:Special:Contributions/Origamiguy|貢献]]''' 15:45, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
::::-Gasp- Why not that one! Ooo, take it! TAKE IT!!! '''[[User:Optimus35|<sc>Optimatum</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''13:53 2 May 2008'''''
TTE, Arceus isn't going 2 be revealed 4 two years yet. [[User:LordKaien|LordKaien]] 14:53, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

==Arceus and Giratina==
Aren't Arceus and Giratina sort of opposites of each other because Arceus is God and Giratina is the devil sort of, I mean Arceus didn't create Giratina so that means they were the two entities before time started. [[User:Big Johnno|Pokémon Master]] 17:46 15 May 2008
:Maybe you're right, but i think that Giratina is part of the Dragon Trio. [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 23:37, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
::Giratina is the BOSS! It saved the two other Pokamon! Posted by the '''[[User:Optimus35|<sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''01:04 17 May 2008'''''
:Hold on, there's no reason to get angry. Why can't we just WAIT until Arceus is officially revealed? Isn't that BETTER than argueing? [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 23:37, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

In my eyes it would be

Dialga + Palkia = Rivals (Time VS Space)

Giratina + Arceus = Rivals (God VS Darkness?)

So yeah, regardless of the fact Giratina is part of the Dragon Trio.
(''Thinking about it, those four are exactly the same as my characters |: Lily = Controls Time. Darkness = Controls Space. Akito = Controls Death. Rose = Controls Life/Is a sort-of God. But anyway, my characters are irrelevant too this xD'') [[User:Takoto|Takoto タコト]]| サソデイ = 愛 14:37, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
:So, Arceus is God/JesusHoly Spirit, and Giratina is Satan? O.O It's Da '''[[User:Optimus35|<sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''06:03 26 May 2008'''''
::Arceus is Arceus. Giratina is Giratina. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 07:02, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
:::Meh, that's the Atheist way of seeing it. Hey, wait, am I about to be stone for being anti-atheist? Damn. It's Da '''[[User:Optimus35|<sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''07:13 26 May 2008'''''
::::I didn't say Giratina was Satan, i simply said he was...darkness. [[User:Takoto|Takoto タコト]]| サソデイ = 愛 02:05, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
My question is, how do you KNOW Giratina is bad, or if Arceus is even good? How do you KNOW Giratina wasn't created by Arceus? You don't. Besides, Neither ot them are from Christianity, and U know what? I'm a devout Christian and I don't care if Arceus wasn't based off of my God. [[User:LordKaien|LordKaien]] 14:56, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
:Does anybody want to see it this way, "WE SHOULD ALL JUST WAIT"? [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 22:06, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
::I don't think Giratina is evil. You don't have too be evil/whatever to control darkness/whatever Giratina controls. I do not think Giratina is evil! [[User:Takoto|Takoto タコト]]| サソデイ = 愛 22:22, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
:Is this text INVISIBLE? WE SHOULD ALL JUST WAIT! [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 00:28, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
::Thank you, good people of bulbapedia, for waiting. [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 00:57, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
Giratina isn't bad, or evil, or a demon, or any of that bull****. They make Darkrai seem like he's evil in The Rise of Darkrai, but he wasn't. Just because Giratina lives in a graveyard doesn't mean he's evil. [[User:Diachronos|Diachronos]] 18:06, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
:::I'm thinking that Giratina will be added to "The Original Story." Remember how, in Ruby an Sapphire, the only ones mentioned in the old man's story were Groudon and Kyogre, with Rayquaza a non-storyline okemon, but then, in Emerald, it became a vital part of the game? Same with Giratina. -[[User:Kiryu|Kiryu]] 02:00, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
WAIT! [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 23:49, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
: I AM waiting. It's merely a theory, and could be entirely wrong. I'm just trying to soothe the tensions here.[[User:Kiryu|Kiryu]] 23:28, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
::Ok, it's been a few months since I last looked up here and I now think that it is wise to wait, but it is also important to FRIENDLY share ideas, instead of course doing something like this,"No, your wrong! BLAH! BLAH-BLAH!" ,also you are right to try to soothe tensions. [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 23:45, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

== More sprites ==

Ok, so we have all the type sprites for Arceus and it's shiny sprite, but we don't have shiny forms for Arceus' other types. Could someone please tell me if it's possible to get those sprites and if so get them for us? [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 12:08, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
:If i could, i would, but i can't, so i can't help you. I'm not even 100% sure Arceus's other-type sprites HAVE shiny versions of them :| [[User:Takoto|Takoto タコト]]| サソデイ = 愛 14:27, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
::They do. And a simple method is to color the sprites the right color. The white portion of the body is the only part which remains constant throughout the non-shiny forms. and when it becomes shiny, the rings are the same color as those of the non-shiny ones. The only thing that differs between non-shiny and shiny is the white portion, which turns yellow. It's Da '''[[User:Optimus35|<sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''06:01 26 May 2008'''''
:So... could you do that for us as a favor? [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 22:02, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
::I might have those sprites on my computer somewhere. Want me to upload them? [[User:Yinyang1195|Yin]][[User talk:Yinyang1195|Yang]] 20:05, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
:Why don't you recolor them...it will be easy.--[[User:Tavisource|☆Tavis]][[User talk:Tavisource|ource]] 00:49, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
::I dont no how... [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 00:54, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
:Hmm...I would do it, but I'm very busy right now, you could go ask hcfx2 for help, he's great at recoloration.--[[User:Tavisource|☆Tavis]][[User talk:Tavisource|ource]] 00:57, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
:Nevermind, i found them on "a:Catagory:Arceus". But thanks :) [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 01:11, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

== Metronome and Judgement ==

If a player knows nothing about Arceus, how would they know that Judgement is its signature attack? Even if it is used by a Pokémon using Metronome. So could Metronome really spoil the surprise? ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 02:50, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
:Not really. ^^; Metronome can do ANYTHING. Even Explosion so...'''[[User:Optimus35|It's the <sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''02:54 4 Jun 2008'''''
::Well, if they were like "Ooh, what learns that?!" and can't find anyone, they'll suspect it to be some crazy legendary not yet shown. And have lived under a rock since EVERYONE KNOWS OF ARCEUS. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 03:03, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
:::Hmm, then Singapore must be under a rock. Only two people I know know what's Arceus, that includes me. '''[[User:Optimus35|It's the <sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''03:12 4 Jun 2008'''''
::::Or this is nintendo's way of teasing us. kinda like,
Player:"What pokémon learns this?"
Nintendo:"Wait and see"
Player:"You suck."[[User:LordKaien|LordKaien]] 12:39, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

I only ask because of this quote in the trivia:

"''Although Nintendo is attempting to keep Arceus secret, it is possible for Arceus's signature move, Judgment, to be used through Metronome, thus potentially revealing the existence of Arceus to otherwise unaware fans.''"

Plus, Nintendo ''has'' to know that the majority of their fanbase uses the internet. Every Pokémon website except the "official" ones have info on Arceus. A lot of them even before the games were released globally. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 15:57, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
:The majority of the fanbase are kids who don't necessarily visit fansites. --[[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] |[[User talk:Fabu-Vinny|Talk Page]]| 16:02, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
::No ([[User:MathijsP|MathijsP]] 16:03, 4 June 2008 (UTC))
:::Yes. --[[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] |[[User talk:Fabu-Vinny|Talk Page]]| 16:04, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
::::No ([[User:MathijsP|MathijsP]] 16:05, 4 June 2008 (UTC))

:::::I would have to disagree with that statement. I believe that most fans may have been kids at the beginning when Pokémon first came out, but now have grown as the series has. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 16:18, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

A similar thing happened to me when I was playing PBR. I ordered my Togepi to use Metronome and out came Judgment. I wondered what Pokémon used this move until I checked this site and I found Arceus. I didn't even know about its existence AT ALL when Metronome was used that one year ago... {{ani|385}}[[User:BlueJirachi|BlueJirachi]] 18:01, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

== Arceus's pattern in the anime? ==

I didn't get a second look (mainly because I deleted the episode from my DVR), but I heard in the episode "Journey to the Unknown!" that Saturn was holding a cube with Arceus's pattern on it... [[User:ShinyRayquaza|ShinyRayquaza]] 19:35, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

== Arceus + Sky Plate? ==

If you attach a Sky Plate to Arceus, wouldn't that make it become the first pure Flying-type Pokémon? [[User:Wynautluvr|Wynautluvr]] 16:53, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

:It is the first "permanent" pure Flying-type. The Porygon line can become Flying-types with their Conversion moves, and Kecleon can with its Color Change Ability. These Pokémon, however, revert back to Normal when the battle is over. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 18:56, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

::It's not permanent, in that you can change the plate and it loses the pure-flying status... '''[[:User:Origamiguy|Lord]] of [[:User_talk:Origamiguy|Ori]][[Special:Contributions/Origamiguy|gami]]''' 15:16, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
:::It's permanent in that it doesn't go away just because the battle ends. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 21:46, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
::::No its not. Its only a permanent flying type if its natural type (i.e. no plate) is flying. You might as well say its also the first permamnent ??? type since it can become that (potentially) too.[[User:Wikid|Wikid]] 16:43, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

:::::If you never remove the plate, then it's permanent. Plus, you can't obtain a ???-type Arceus in-game in any normal fashion. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 16:45, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

:::::: Says you. firstly, the word permanent implies that the typing can never be changed. If you unequip the plate Arceus goes back to normal therefore it's not permanent. At best I would say its semi-permament. Secondly, there might a ??? plate given out at an event or found somewhere in platinum like Glacidia's flower. ??? forme arceus might be the result when you enter the torn world with arceus. It might even be what Arceus looks like when it is a shadow pokemon as there might be a new game coming out to do with shadow pokemon and DPP might be the first generation where you can trade shadow pokemon over. Therefore if you can trade it as shadow poke between DP and platinum then there is a way to get an ??? forme Arceus in a normal fashion.[[User:Wikid|Wikid]] 17:21, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Fine. "Semi-permanent". ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 17:24, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== The ??? Plate ==

The ??? Plate exists, It is named mysterious plate by CodeJunkies, It may also be encountered in the underground as a Malfunction, people got this (like my brother) and attached it to ARCEUS, making the ??? type, no weaknesses are found on this type--[[User:M.vit|M.vit]] 00:10, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
:Believe me, people code-spelunk like there's no tomorrow...there isn't such thing.--[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 00:10, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

can M.vit at least tell how did his brother encounter such a plate, and how does it function with other Pokémon?and what happens to a Pokémon who knows the move [[curse]]

can somebody edit this article . It says that Arceus creted the Pokémon Universe,''Dragon trio'' and lake trio. Till now the dragon trio isn't officially confirmed. so whether I or somebody else should change the Dragon trio to the time-space duo: Dialga and Palkia.--[[User:Nobody777|Nobody777]] 13:56, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

well, seems that nobody is out of topic, BTW, i have seem to find this code in Code Junkies here it is
Mysterious Plate x999
94000130 fcff0000
b21c4d28 00000000
b0000004 00000000
00000890 03e70133
d2000000 00000000--[[User:M.vit|M.vit]] 16:55, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

:The plates all have different names on CodeJunkies which are the translated Japenese names. I believe the Mysterious Plate is actually the Mind Plate. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 17:13, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
::Your right, it is the mind plate. '''{{Colored link|:User:Origamiguy|ff8000|Lord}} of {{Colored link|:User_talk:Origamiguy|ff8000|Ori}}{{Colored link|Special:Contributions/Origamiguy|ff8000|gami}}''' 16:45, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

There. Is. No. ???. Plate. The only move outside of the gamecube games that is ??? type doesn't do direct damage- so it doesn't need a plate. I for one agree with an above topic- the sprite is used to prevent a crash.Any self-respecting hacker can change Arceus's type into ???.[[User:Kiryu|Kiryu]] 23:00, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

==type change==

Keckleons ability color change changes its type according to the move done by the opponent so if ???-type arceus used judjement, will it change its type? can anyone experiment?--[[User:Nobody777|Nobody777]] 13:21, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

:The fact that you can't get a ??? plate makes it difficult to say. I have no idea what would happen...♪♪[[User:ShinyPachirisu|Shiny]] [[User Talk:ShinyPachirisu|Pachirisu]] :) ♪♪ 13:23, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

::???-type moves have been hacked and have no effect. So Kecleon would probably be unaffected. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 13:39, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
:::Actually, they do have an effect... they just deal minimal damage. Lemme see what it does in Gen III later on... '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 23:41, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Pal Park]] ==

Will it really freeze the game when you put Arceus infront of the party and bla bla bla to the Pal Park?
[[User:Palkia38|Palkia38]] 03:48, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
:Why would it do that? [[User:Kiryu|Kiryu]] 23:02, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

I've never heard any such rumor. What exactly is supposed to happen? [[User:LordArceus|LordArceus]] 16:34, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

== Now... ==

Isn't what I did so freaking cool? I mean, look at it. And the best thing is that it is totally dependent on the ''exact second'' that you save/access the page. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 07:32, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
:A fine template, indeed. Would it be useful to use something like this to generate random examples in paragraphs?
:P.S.: What you did (a calculation based on a clock) is even a good idea for a new ability or move in the game that picks a random type. --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 07:53, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
::Now if we only had the backsprites for the various forms...--[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 22:49, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
:::Two clock-based calculations would make it even more random. Watch this. {{#expr: ({{#time: U}} div {{#time: s}}) mod 9002}} {{#ifexpr: (({{#time: U}} div {{#time: s}}) mod 9002) > 9000|<big>'''← IT'S OVER 9000!!!'''</big>}}
:::As for random examples... hmm... Well, what are you thinking?
:::And I wish for the backsprites, too... And the minisprite, does it change with Arceus? '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 22:58, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

==Arceus in My Pokémon Ranch==
For a fact,someone in the German forum BisaBoard got Arceus as one of the daily Pokémon!This person was -like me- totally dumbfounded and opened that thread to know more about this phenomena.
I've asked some expert in the same message board if this would be really possible.To my surprise,he said that he checked the programme code and Arceus is really included!I think this MUST be put into the Trivia section.[[User:Uxie legend|Uxie legend]]

:How does one check the program code of a Wii Ware title? And of course Arceus would be there, it can be deposited just like any other Pokémon. Plus, I ''doubt'' that Hayley will trade you an Arceus... ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 16:02, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

::Might be wrong, but I believe there is a set list of Pokémon Hayley will only trade off, which was found and released in dr_nza's FAQ found [http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/wii/file/943658/53074 here]. The Pokémon Hayley brings are random, so I guess Arceus is a possibility, but Hayley won't be able to trade it off. - [[User:Legotim|█╬▓◘ ’M █╚▓█ (ţś_łєğǿŧΐм)]] [[User talk:Legotim|spreche]] 05:06, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

==Hmmm....==
Should we add that Arceus is the most hacked Pokemon? Every hacker I know owns a Arceus ''and'' all its plates. [[User:Strong Intelligent|Strong Intelligent]]
:No. tc26 14:03, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
::I own all the plates too. I got them underground. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 22:46, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

:::I spent so much time underground that I have more than one of each plate. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 03:22, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

In any case, the most hacked pokemon is probably Mew...[[User:Kiryu|Kiryu]] 23:03, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

== Church? ==

{{u|Sui}} keeps adding an external link to "The Church of Arceus." I'm wondering whether or not this is notable enough, or if it's just an advertisement for an obscure fansite. I don't know anything, so you guys be the judges. --[[User:Martonimos|Martonimos]][[User talk:Martonimos|((Argh]]|[[Special:Contributions/Martonimos|Blargh))]] 21:59, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

== Ūber? ==

If [[Arceus]] isn't offically reveiled, how can it be called Ūber? Can't spell.

☆ShinyPiKa 19:17, 8 August 2008 (UTC)☆
:Well, some people hack into their games and can get Arceus that way. So they know that way. ...I really dunno [[User:Takoto|Takoto タコト]]| サソデイ = 愛 19:22, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

::His stats put him in the league of the strongest Pokemon of all, so he's safe to call that. [[User:Toastypk|'''''~Toastypk''''']] - [[User_Talk:Toastypk|'''Loom.''']] 19:28, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

::: Although that is true, it isn't revealed yet so it can't be under that catagory '''yet'''. It's been annoying me, please remove it. ShinyPiKa 19:58, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

:::It's being used, and people are able to--gasp, shocker--read its stats! And, since its stats (and movepool, for that matter) are pretty decent, it can be classified as "uber," despite it being revealed or not. --'''[[User:Gabbie|gabbie]]''' | '''[[User_talk:Gabbie|talk]]''' 21:07, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

:::: But people still use Arceus on Wi-Fi. Darkrai and Shaymin were in and are still in the UBER tier so why should Arceus be any different?--[[User:Blazevoir|Blaz]][[User talk:Blazevoir|evoir]] 20:59, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

::::: Because it hasn't been revealed yet !!! :D ShinyPiKa 22:23, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
::::::You cant use Arceyus in the battle tower. [[User:MathijsP|MathijsP]] 09:30, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
::::::: Please remove [[Arceus]] from the Ūber secion 4 now, when its reveaaled u can add it back.ShinyPiKa 15:00, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
:::::::: Why? Every other website considers it ÜBER. Why should Bulba be any different?--[[User:Blazevoir|Blaz]][[User talk:Blazevoir|evoir]] 15:08, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::Because people think Nintendo will kill us for actually taking note of their stuff before they officially reveal them. Unlike Platinum's existence before May 15, though, it can be proven that Arceus exists. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 17:21, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

The wording differs, but here's the basic definition of an Ūber Legendary: Any Pokémon that is banned by the Battle Tower. This, if you check invludes all definite Ūbers and no definite non-Ūbers. Arceus is banned; therefore, I say he is an Ūber. [[User:LordArceus|LordArceus]] 16:38, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

== Arceus vs. Mew ==

This is all that Mew's Pokédex entries say:

*Because it can use all kinds of moves, many scientists believe Mew to be the ancestor of Pokémon.
*Mew is said to possess the genetic composition of all Pokémon.
*Because it can learn any move, some people began research to see if it is the ancestor of all Pokémon.

First off, this kind of stuff didn't appear until Silver. Second off, it is ''very'' couched in uncertainty, and it is ''never'' said that its actually been shown to possess every type of DNA - ''only that its ability to perform any move has generated that rumor''.

Second off, several Pokémon are completely artificial, such as {{p|Grimer}}/{{p|Muk}}, {{p|Castform}}, or {{p|Porygon}}/{{p|Porygon2}}/{{p|Porygon-Z}}. So, how could Mew be considered their "ancestor", or have their DNA, if its supposed to be the "first Pokemon"? Wouldn't having the DNA of Pokemon who appeared completely separate from any genetic lineage instead imply Mew was their descendant?

Porygon is even said to be "A Pokémon that consists entirely of programming code." So, no DNA at all, and its upgrades are said to simply have had AI installed.

Even allowing for the monstrously egregious interpretations of genetics in the series, the idea that having all the DNA of a group makes you its ancestor is hogwash - its entirely the other way around.

Now, lets look at Arceus, and its info.
*It is told in mythology that this Pokémon was born before the universe even existed.
*It is described in mythology as the Pokémon that shaped the universe with its 1,000 arms.
* "Two beings of time and space set free from the Original One."
* "Three beings were born to bind time and space."
* "Two make matter and three make spirit, shaping the world."
* "The Original One breathed alone before the universe came."

Now, this is ''much'' more explicit than the Mew bit '''ever''' was. It makes it absolutely clear that Arceus came ''before even the universe itself, much less other Pokémon'', and that it in fact created the world and life itself. Once could claim that this is uncertain do to its status as "mythology", but that would be hilariously in denial of how the series has used mythology so far - as an origin story, not as something by definition uncertain or false.

How is there even a dispute about this? If it's a retcon at all, it's a fairly small one - it was clear from the beginning that the bit about Mew being the origin had a contradictory explanation.

Now, what could work is that Mew is supposed to be god-like like Arceus and other Legendaries - in this case, it would logically be some scion of life, which would in fact explain its design. If the bit about Mew containing all other DNA turned out to be "true", in the context of the franchise, then this would also make much more sense than the pseudo-scientific jargon used in Silver - Mew contains the DNA because it is the ultimate personification of life/birth, and the scientists are trying to force a contradictory explanation for the oddity in order to deny its true, supernatural origin.

So can we please stop claiming things like the D/P Pokedex "still stating that it's the ancestor of all pokémon", or that "it's no different than people believing Arceus is the creator"? [[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 06:14, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
:Creationism vs science? In my Pokémon? It's more likely than you think! '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 06:30, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

::ummm... "Uncertain", If I recall correctly, it can learn "Transform", which, unless I'm mistaken, involves the recombination of it's own DNA to match said pokemon that transforms. And, since Ditto's Pokédex entry hints that how it transforms involves it recombining it's DNA to match the pokémon it's trying to match, the same can easily be said for Mew. So, really, considering how it knows transform, and it can transform into a lot of pokémon, even legendaries that were supposedly created before it, it still has merit in regards to having the DNA of all pokémon, and thus being the ancestor of all pokémon.

::As for the Porygon/2/z example, considering the mere fact that Mew can transform into these three pokémon DESPITE apparantly not having their DNA, I think that those Pokémon have a miniscule amount of Mew's DNA (otherwise, how can Ditto [Or mew, for that matter] transform into them?].). Besides, just because they are composed entirely of AI (whether it's the free will kind or not doesn't matter) doesn't mean it can't have DNA. Take the Mega Man series (specifically, the Mega Man X subseries through the Mega Man ZX series.), the Reploids were mentioned to be complete Machines (all derived from X's design), and yet the games also mentions that they have DNA (Reploid "DNA" was used to form the Nightmare Virus, and also revive Necromances III, Harumachine, Blizzard Staggoff, and Copy X. Plus, Axl's ability involves him mimicking his enemies (and in the case of Command Mission and [Technically] ZX advent, even bosses.).

::And anyways, Mew can also transform into Grimer, Muk, and Castform, which, if Mew didn't have their DNA, then how can Mew OR Ditto even transform into them?

::Also, about it's pokedex entries, both of them contradict themselves. I mean, one says that it was born before the universe existed, and yet, the other hints that it was born a little while AFTER the Universe was created, and that all IT did was merely "shape" the universe. Plus, it doesn't even HAVE 1,000 arms in its sprite, and not only that, but It also apparantly can't even learn any attacks involving arms, such as all of the punch variants.

::as for the origin book, that ALSO doesn't mention Giratina (yet, anyways, for all we know, Platinum could add it in.), and plus, that same thing hinted that Dialga and Palkia are two halves of Arceus, but then, why cant they merge together (I mean, Dragon Quest, and Mephiles the Dark could do it without much trouble from programming data, so why cant D/P)?

::and anyways, the legends also hinted that Legendaries can't be captured by mere mortals, yet most of the crime syndicates, the Pyramid King and even the protagonist has been wielding these pokemon as if they were nothing.

::That's my ruling as to how the thing isn't retconned (well, that, as well as the fact that, if it was, then wouldn't they have removed the entry from the Pokédex?) [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 10:49, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

lets remember that game physics are different from animé physics. Dialga, Palkia and giratina symbolise physics of the Pokémon world: time, space and dimensions,so if Arceus is the master of them that wouldn't make sense:creationism and science don't go together. Mew can transform its appearance, but not the nature or unique functions of a Pokémon, and if we follow good sense we can also say that it can't copy Pokémon which evolved in a special way because their not ''original'' like trading its bioligical fusion of item and Pokémon DNA.--[[User:Nobody777|Nobody777]] 12:40, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

:I'm pretty sure that it can copy even those that evolved in a "special" way in even the Anime. Remember, Weavile evolves from Sneasel via the Sharp Claw item, which also fits under the special way, and despite that, Mew STILL transformed into that pokemon in the Lucario Movie. If it can evolve through something like that, I'm pretty certain that it is even ancestral to those pokemon who evolve via special means. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 13:50, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
:::Wait, '''''what?''''' You're saying that ''because it can do something that '''Ditto''' can do'', it must be the ancestor of all Pokemon? Wouldn't this also require Ditto to be the ancestor of all Pokemon?
:::'''Porygon''': Then you are making up things contradictory to the established in-game facts in order to force in your own fan-theory. Almost every Pokedex entry for the Porygon line reiterates that they have NOTHING but programming code.
:::'''MegaMan X''': It is never, ''ever'' stated that the robots are "completely mechanical" - that they have souls, DNA, and can merge with living things pretty much makes that theory impossible. DNA is a very specific thing - it's ''not'' a general concept about information derivation, it's a ''specific organic acid''.
:::'''Axl''': His ability has NOTHING to do with DNA, and is never claimed to. It's essentially analogous to what Transformers do.
:::'''Muk''': I didn't say that Mew didn't necessarily possess the DNA of all creatures, though that's not the only way to copy them. I said that claiming this meant it was the ancestor was so completely ignorant of evolution and genetics that it deserves ridicule.
:::However, Ditto is able to copy them because it is an amoeba, and can change the shape of its body at will. To be fair, it is ''once'' said to be able to copy the opponent's genetic code - which would only work AFTER seeing the opponent. As that is EXACTLY how Transform is described anyway, that theory is blown out of the water.
:::'''Arceus' Pokedex''': This is a bald-faced lie. The pokedex entries in no way claim that Arceus came to be after the Universe existed - at best, they claim he came before it, created it, and shaped it.
:::'''Arms''': Have you considered the fact that it could have lost them, or given them up? It is the only Arceus in existence, by the very necessity of its being, so its not going to be something like "They're all born without the arms". It "set free" all those legendaries from itself - maybe it made them from its arms, like so '''very''' many Creation Myths, ''especially the linked Pangu one''.
:::You could also consider that "1000" is often used in Japanese writing to mean "many", instead of a specific number, and as the trios of matter and spirit are considered extensions of Arceus, they could be its "appendages" in a spiritual sense. Seriously, that part of its Pokedex isn't contradictory ''at all''.
:::'''Merge''': What does this have to do with ''anything''? Why would Dragon Quest have any bearing on this?
:::'''Legends''': In the games? No, the legends don't claim that, so the fact that certain legendaries fight with trainers is not contradictory, regardless of your false assertion that it's "like nothing". In the anime, where the legends imply that messing with them is incredibly dangerous to the natural order...well, I'll just let you watch the movies, or something, and try to claim that it's "like nothing".
:::'''Remove''': Why would it be removed? It never claimed anything that was '''false''' - again, '''''it only claims that fictional scientists have a tenuous, uncertain belief based on one of its abilities'''''. The deliberate uncertainty of the Pokedex entries, in contrast to nearly every other Pokedex entry, even for Legendaries, has to be considered. If it's not simply a monstrous misunderstanding of genetics on the game designer's part, then it's almost certainly meant to be a reference to "Supernatural vs. Naturalist science".
::::''"If it can evolve through something like that, I'm pretty certain that it is even ancestral to those pokemon who evolve via special means."''
:::Again, this is inherently contradictory. If these are supposed to be new Pokemon, who only came into existence through a modern item, how could Mew possibly be said to already contain their DNA just because it can ''copy their form''? Remember, Porygon is said to be completely artificial, not an accident like Muk or Grimer.
::::''"lets remember that game physics are different from animé physics. Dialga, Palkia and giratina symbolise physics of the Pokémon world: time, space and dimensions,so if Arceus is the master of them that wouldn't make sense:creationism and science don't go together."'''
:::If Arceus is their master, then that would be in-game science. Science is the pursuit of ''truth'', not the pursuit of purely-materialistic explanations whether it's the truth or not.
:::Also, Giratina would symbolize the afterlife, or some other term for "The Other", not dimensions - "space", in the concept referred to by the triad, would necessarily contain dimensions already, parallel or measurable.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 05:46, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
::::I'm not SAYING that Ditto necessarily IS the ancestor, I only brought it into the picture since it's the only OTHER pokemon to know Transform. And besides which, the Pokédex entry for Ditto explicitly stated that it can transform by rearranging it's Genetic Structure (in other words, it's DNA) to that of it's target. It ALSO replicates their move set and, unless I'm mistaken, even their stats and natures.
::::actually, the Pokedex contradicted ITSELF in that case. I mean, if it doesn't have ANY DNA, then Ditto (not to mention Mew) couldn't transform into it OR it's family, and we all know that it can. Try and get a ditto, and try to face off against Porygon or it's family members in your games, and use transform against it if you don't believe me.
::::Ahem... when I said "Mega Man X" I mean from the Mega Man X saga ALL THE WAY to Mega Man ZX saga. In Mega Man Zero 4: ''Intro: The Reploids... They were robots designed to look like humans... these '''technical marvels''' were given unique personalities and were intended to be the perfect workers and the perfect partners of mankind...'' Later, Dr. Weil says something that would hint at Reploid being COMPLETELY mechanical. This is when Zero encounters him at the Ragnarōk core: Dr. Weil: ''Justice!? Freedom!? Worthless ideals! '''You Reploids are Just Machines, but you started a war a long time ago in the name of freedom!''' And Humans! Look what they did to me! Driving Me away while spurting the word "Justice!"'' And don't assume that he knows nothing about Reploid Physiology since he worked on reviving Reploids prior to his banishment from Neo Arcadia, and besides which, the reason why he was banished was because he created Dark Elf and augmented Zero's original body to become the horrific Omega, as well as instigated the Elf Wars. That shows that he knows quite a LOT about Reploids.
::::as for Axl, it was indeed DNA. in fact, Model A, whose personality (as well as his abilities and the form that Grey/Ashe take on when Megamerging with Model A) is clearly Based off of Axl, and would have easily been labeled as a reincarnation of Axl if Master Albert didn't say that it was actually "Model Albert". Heck, after beating Buckfire in the game, he explicitly mentions that he absorbed Buckfire's DNA, which would allow Grey/ashe to transform and utilize his abilities at will.
::::It also mentioned that Mew possessed the DNA of all Pokémon, though (and anyways, just saying that it "possesses the Genetic code for "pokémon" pretty much implies ALL Pokemon.). And that's what I was saying about Transform the whole time. I mean, Ancestors have to have the DNA of ALL Pokémon to actually be labeled as an Ancestor of all pokémon.
::::As for the Arceus entry, the way Pearl's Pokedex entry was worded made it seem as though it Shaped the universe as soon as it was born. And anyways, the Origin Myth implied that Arceus was the creator of the universe, whileas Pearl's Dex entry stated that it merely shaped it.
::::How can a god lose arms? I mean, Did Ares become one-armed? No, he didn't, and he has fought several wars where something like Decapitation or losing some part of limbs can be considered inevitable, esp. during his time.
::::Lets see, because the Origin thing mentioned that Dialga and Palkia are two halves of Arceus, and, if they were truly two halves of the same being, then having them both in your party would gain you a new arceus. but it doesn't.
::::Let's see, because only the Crime syndicates, the Hero/ine, and in one case, a BF leader, was able to capture legendaries. Also, in the Anime, the only time that the legendaries actually CAUSED a natural imbalance was in "Pokemon 2000", which even THEN, it was hinted that it was actually caused by territorial disputes rather than because it was captured in and of itself. most of the other movies and anime related things that featured legendaries didn't have the legendaries causing all Hades to break loose right when they were captured. Besides, as common in many mythos, A god simply cannot be captured by Mortals.
::::Because, if they didn't HAVE DNA, then Mew and Ditto CAN'T transform, since the move Transform requires the Genetic Code of a pokémon. Besides, that was directed at the guy who said that those who evolve via trades and items can't be related to Mew.
::::No, it's in game Mythology. The Origin story is nothing more than one big myth.
::::And yet it's constantly implied that Giratina is listed among Dialga and Palkia.
::::Anyways, that's all for now. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 11:25, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
::'''Ditto''': Your logic was that, because it can use Transform, it must be the ancestor. Either this implies that Ditto is also the ancestor (a contradiction), or you need to not make such claims. Its inherently self-contradictory.
::While Ditto's profile ''does'' sometimes say that it '''copies''' (not already possesses) the opponent's genetic code, it also says that it is "Capable of reorganizing its cells to transform into an exact duplicate of its enemy. It is usually a shapeless blob.", and that it can transform to resemble a rock. It is explicitly clear from the Pokedex entries, the description of Transform, and how Ditto is presented in the series, that it is merely ''reshaping it's '''own''' genetic code to '''resemble''' something else''. Because, as we all know, ROCK's DON'T HAVE DNA.
::The description of Transform, and how Ditto uses it, does ''not'' require that the opponent has DNA, only that Ditto does. ''Please keep this in mind''.
::The definition of "machine" does not require that something be purely inorganic in nature, and neither of the quotes you provided really even claims anything near that. Weil's quote, in that case, is emotional, and almost certainly pointing out his view that Reploid's are inferior and by nature servants of humans. This is the view used by ''all'' the villains in the Zero series, and is actually a ''huge'' part of the conflict. Play the games again.
::'''Axl''': No, it's not DNA. It's never said to be DNA. It's said to be a special ability of his, to transform his body. Model A, while designed to be a callback to Axl, is NOT Axl. However, I grant you that the Shittenou are said to have been derived from X's DNA. As Reploids are ''never'' said to be completely mechanical, and DNA is only mentioned as belonging to X and the Shittenou (notice that in ZX, Reploids and organics ''have been combined anyway'' - play the game again), it doesn't support your claim that something purely mechanical or programmed can still have DNA.
::'''Ancestor'': No, it says that some scientists ''claim'' that based on its abilities. '''You need to get that through your head''', and stop claiming that the Pokedex outright claims these things. You should also learn that your concept of "ancestry" is completely, utterly flawed, with no basis in any kind of genetics, and absolutely ridiculous. I'm sorry to be so harsh, but it's outright folly. That's NOT how an ancestor would be determined.
::'''Pearl''': You are again twisting or inserting things into the Pokedex that are not there in order to fit your views.
::'''Arms''': Hephaestus. Hercules. Pangu. Ymir. Odin. Please, think before spouting - gods are ''very'' prone to lose parts of their bodies.
::'''Halves''': First off, it doesn't. It claims they are two parts of Arceus. There is ''no basis'' in science ''or'' mythology for what you claim - Pangu and Ymir don't suddenly come back just because all the pieces are there. Two halves of an apple don't rejoin to a full apple just because they are there.
::'''Capture''': Pokemon 2000, in which the sea itself sprung forth, Pokemon the Movie, in which the world almost drowned, Pokemon 3, in which UNOWN nearly crystallized the earth, Pokemon 4Ever, in which messing with Celebi caused the forest to become a rampaging monster, Jirachi Wishmaker, in which messing with Jirachi caused the earth to come alive as a rampaging monster, Rise of Darkrai, in which Dialga and Palkia being disturbed nearly rent apart time and space...nearly every movie follows this format. Don't be so dense. Why would the world ''immediately'' come apart, anyway? If you removed the moon, it would still take some time for the seas to destabilize. As for your assertion that gods cannot be captured - you clearly have no knowledge of mythology. Such a thing is rife throughout Norse, Greek, Roman, Chinese, Japanese, Native American, African....nearly every mythology has such a thing happen. Only Abrahamic religions, where the ''sole'' God has absolute power and absolute perfection, has a deity invulnerable to human effort.
::'''New Pokemon''': First off, I didn't say all new Pokemon didn't have DNA, only that some of these included Pokemon who are explicitly said to be purely artificial. Second off, ''you really need to actually look stuff up before claiming things'' - your claims about, well, damn near everything in this discussion have almost no basis in what the game's have actually said. Transform requires the USER's DNA to be changed to cause the USER to resemble the opponent. There is no intake of DNA, and it would be ridiculous to claim that Ditto already has a databank of all DNA (remember, it can turn into Ash - is Ditto Ash's ancestor?)
::...it would be mythology (a story which explains the origin of the world) AND science (an experimentally fact-checked story which explains an empirical truth). Mythology is ''not'' equivalent to "lies and untruths".
::'''Giratina''': ...um, yeah. Which is why I explained that it can't represent something ruled by one of the others.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 22:37, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
:::As I said in my previous post, I wasn't implying that Ditto is the ANCESTOR (I only brought it into the picture because it's the only pokémon aside from Mew to learn Transform. Did I SAY that Ditto was the ancestor of all pokemon? no, I didn't.).
:::And that's why I differentiated between Mew and Ditto, see, Ditto needed to copy the DNA, yet it is hinted repeatedly even in DP that Mew's DNA contains all of Pokemon (more than just moves, also stats and typings to a certain extent [I.E. Transform]. Heck, it can even utilize Judgement if it wanted to (Not by move tutor's of course, but definitely via Metronome.). That's what makes Mew the ancestor. Besides, there's more to being an ancestor than just being there first. You must ALSO be genetically related. I'm not going into the DP thing since you're obviously missing the idea.
:::Ok, I'l agree with the Norse gods (though to be fair, it wasn't caused by Mortals), but Hercules was a half god, meaning, he can still be mutilated significantly by mortals with visible scarring.
:::Ok, I already covered Pokemon 2000, and the Unown weren't TRUE Legendary Pokemon. Also, The only thing caused by the capture of Celebi was the forest pokemon being POed, that Mecha didn't count since Iron Masked marauder made that mech. All Celebi did was just act as the core. Heck, Ask Blackjack Palazzo if you don't believe me, since she also mentioned that as well. I'll acknowledge Jirachi, though. As for the Rise of Darkrai, Humans weren't even responsible for Dialga and Palkia fighting, they just met when they ended up in a bad mood. Also, Mewtwo tried to do those actions to try and earn the right to exist (though most of that was eliminated from the Dub, sadly.). As for what you stated, if gods CAN be captured by mere mortals, EXPLAIN why Pirithous couldn't even capture Persephone without having his own butt stuck on a bench for all of eternity?! Heck, name one story where Zeus or any of the PURE gods were captured by mere mortals and forced to do their bidding by the Mortals command. Also, just FYI, I just mastered AP Latin, so DON'T say I'm not knowledgeable in Mythology in the Graeco-roman kind at least.
:::And for the last time, I didn't IMPLY nor state that Ditto even HAD a databank of DNA, that attribute belongs to Mew, and Mew alone.
:::Sheesh, sometimes you guys are impossible.[[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 23:00, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
::::It doesn't matter whether you explicitly say that Ditto is the ancestor - you're reasoning relies on claiming that the ability to use Transform is an indicator of having the DNA, and being the ancestor. Just by looking at Ditto, that's false. Being snarky about it doesn't change the fact that you're wrong.
::::Clefairy also has metronome, so Metronome cannot be an indicator of being the ancestor. To be the ancestor of all Pokemon, all Pokemon must be your descendants. Dialga and Palkia are clearly and explicitly descendants of Arceus only, unless Mew is Arceus' ancestor, which would be contradictory to what we are told. Again, you are confusing something the game frequently reiterates is a rumor, with what the game puts forth as exposition.
::::...what the hell do you mean "to be fair"? I never claimed that mortals caused the gods to lose body parts, and its completely irrelevant to discussion. As for Hercules, he became a full god after his original death.
::::....okay, I'm just going to post back your original post on this sub-topic, because you seem to have a bad memory:
:::''"and anyways, the legends also hinted that Legendaries can't be captured by mere mortals, yet most of the crime syndicates, the Pyramid King and even the protagonist has been wielding these pokemon '''as if they were nothing.'''"''
::::Mewtwo, the only Pokemon I can think of that was actually wielded by a "crime syndicate", caused those actions because it was PO'd about ''being used by humans''.
::::As far as I can tell, your implication with that passage was that Legendaries weren't the god-like beings that the legends indicated - ''yet their actions, even in The Rise of Darkrai, explicitly demonstrates that they are''. Whether a human actively screws with them or not, they ''can and will'' rip the world apart if they're in a bad mood. I'm also unaware of the legends implying that it's impossible to capture them - only that it's impossible to safely enslave them.
::::Wow...you pass high school latin, and you deem it logical to choose ''one'' example from ''one'' mythology to claim that ''all'' mortals in ''all'' mythology will never have the upper hand against ''any'' god? I'm definitely out of my league here!
::::Some other examples:
:::::''...Zeus then ordered Hades to chain Sisyphus in Tartarus. Sisyphus slyly asked Thanatos to try the chains to show how they worked. When Thanatos did so, Sisyphus secured them and threatened Hades. This caused an uproar, and no human could die until Ares (who was annoyed that his battles had lost their fun because his opponents would not die) intervened, freeing Thanatos and sending Sisyphus to Tartarus.''
:::::''Tantalus offered up his son, Pelops, as a sacrifice to the gods. He cut Pelops up, boiled him, and served him up as food for the gods. The gods were said to be aware of his plan for their feast, so they didn't touch the offering; only Demeter, distraught by the loss of her daughter, Persephone, "did not realize what it was" and ate part of the boy's shoulder.''
::::Yes, those who mess with the gods get it in the end - but isn't this ''exactly'' what happens to those who mess with the Legendary Pokemon? Even innocent play with pseudo-legendaries like Unown can endanger the world.
::::...I don't know how I can make this more plain:
:::::'''''You claimed that Mew's ability to use Transform meant it had to be the ancestor, and brought up Ditto as a "evidence" for your interpretation of how Transform worked.''''' Now, when confronted with this, you claim that the ability to use Transform does not imply something is the ancestor. '''''Make up your mind'''''.
:::::Actually, to be fair, you don't actually bring up this glaring inconsistency. You just try to avoid the contradiction, and try to "eat your cake and have it too."

To summarize:
#Mythology, as portrayed in the series, is quite reliable.
#Arceus' mythology is neither self-contradictory, nor unique among real-world mythology.
#The claim about Mew having the DNA of all Pokemon is not only contradictory to the explicit facts about artificial Pokemon such as Porygon, but never even claimed as fact, only as a rumor.
#Transform, as described in-game and as demonstrated by Ditto, does ''not'' require a databank of all DNA. It merely requires the ability to change shape, or to replicate another's DNA.
#Metronome, as described in-game and as demonstrated by Clefairy, also does not require a databank of all DNA.
#Claiming that Mew is the ancestor of all Pokemon is inherently contradictory to the stated claims about Arceus, Dialga, Palkia, Mesprit, Axelf, Uxie, and Heatran.
#Even before considering the contradictions in the total mythology, '''''The idea that having a copy of all of a group's DNA implies you are their ancestor is inherently ridiculous and contradictory. It is the opposite of how genetics and inheritance actually works, even on the most basic level. It can be immediately refuted by a thought-examination of a child and his two, un-related parents.'''''

[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 08:08, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Umm... Hello. May I be permitted to submit my own wild abstractions?(*looks around*) Thank you. Well, what if Arceus began by creating the Universe and then created Mew as a template for all Pokémon who then flew off and was disregarded whilst Arceus was busy creating the 'gods' of Time and Space... Or something...[[User:Monblazon|Monblazon]] 21:15, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
::That would work. Mew could conceivably be the progenitor or ancestor of ''most'' Pokemon, but not all.
::Also, I'm sorry, it turns out Axl's Copy Shot ''does'' use DNA Cores, so I apologize for being wrong about that bit.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 07:26, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
:::Thank you! I am good at filling in inconsistencies in canon like that...[[User:Monblazon|Monblazon]] 18:53, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
::::Do we call this the creation paradox? '''[[User:Optimatum|<sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Optimatum|Talk]]|[[User:Optimatum/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''10:38 3 Sep 2008'''''
:::::I'm not sure what you're referring to, as the only creation paradox I know of would require Mew to have travelled through time and created Arceus, which is in contradiction to what we've been given ("The Original One breathed alone"), as well as not based in any ability of Mew's that we know of. Could you explain what you mean?[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 19:33, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
::::::That would be a Temporal Paradox. The actual Paradox here is that since Mew is supposed to be the ancestor of ALL Pokémon, and Arceus is a Pokémon, the original, then one must contradict the other - which is the meaning of the word paradox. More or less...[[User:Monblazon|Monblazon]] 19:48, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
[un-indent] Look, I just feel the need to point this out. Do ''we'' have ''God's'' DNA? I don't see what's so contradictory about Arceus making Mew which all Pokémon (with the exception of, one assumes, Arceus's five avatars) may have eventually [Darwinian] evolved from. (...I just completely described intelligent design, didn't I?)--[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 20:04, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, and anyways, if we were to go by the definition of "Retcon", the statement of Mew believed to be the ancestor of all pokemon wouldn't even exist in D/P (Heck, they could have gotten to mention one of Mew's OLD Dex entries.) [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 20:11, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

check the DP Pokédex entry it says that scientists ''belive'' it is not known but believed in, no proof so wait for official information or this will end in a pardox.--[[User:Nobody777|Nobody777]] 16:45, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

:It is a paradox. But not a very vicious one.[[User:Monblazon|Monblazon]] 17:43, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

::Yeah, and besides, if we were to mention that we should eliminate the Mew dex thing as proof that it may not be retconned just because scientists believed that it was the ancestor of all pokemon, then by that same token, we should eliminate Arceus's Dex entry as proof that it is retconned since it says that it's believed to be the creator of the universe in MYTHOLOGY, in other words, it's believed to be the creator of the universe by a LIE! [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 19:46, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

:Exumptly. [[User:Monblazon|Monblazon]] 22:35, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

I think it's a losing battle to try to make sense of world when it's creators care less about it than you do. [[User:Kajillion|Kajillion]] 02:11, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Here is how I belive it is done It just like the Greek Mythology

Mew created Arceus
Then Arceus created the Universe
Then he created Time and Space (D and P)
it just like how Chaos created Gaia and Gaia created Ornoas and they had the Titans

Its the same thing here all over

Remember in the 2000 Movei the Titan of Fire Ice and Lighting

And I Belive they have called some other Pokemom Titans before also

It all the same thing its Pokemon version of Greek Mythology
::::After reading this section I do believe that what was stated on the Mew talk page was correct and about porygon having only data don't you think if mew had part data too and porygon's data came from that bit of data--[[Mew (Pokémon)|M]][[User:MyUU|yU]][[User talk:MyUU|U]] 01:47, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
::: I think I figured it out. Ok, so Mew created an egg, which hatched into Arceus; which created the whole world,the Dragon trio, and The Lake Trio; then fell into a deep sleep, leaving Mew to create everything else. Doesn't the myth State that Arceus Created the two sinnoh trios and the whole world, ONLY. it doesn't state that it Created everything else, or that nothing created the egg it hatched from, Does it? [[User:ShinyPikachu|§hin¥£iΨ@chµ]] 22:48, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Well, Dialga and Palkia and Giratina and Arceus are considered by many as only legends, so the Pokédex programmers didn't know about its existence until the player captured it. But people have seen Mew, and proved its existence beforehand.[[User:TorchicBlaziken|TorchicBlaziken]] ([[User_talk:TorchicBlaziken|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/TorchicBlaziken|edits]]) 23:11, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Okay, looky here. This argument is getting too long. Let me just summarise and give a difinitive solution; Sure, many scientists have developed the theory that Mew is the ancestor of all Pokemon because it contains all of their DNA. However, this is proven wrong with the origin of Arceus.
Arceus was born before the universe (or very early on, at least) and shaped the universe and created the dragon and lake trio. He then went to sleep for eons at the Hall of Origin. On Earth (in the Pokémon world) the other legendaries came about by their own means and whatever, such as the legendary beasts being created by Ho-Oh.
Mew came about of its own accord. It holds the genes of all Pokemon. That does ''not'' make it the ancestor of all Pokemon. If anything, it would make sense to say that it came about ''last'' since it contains all other Pokémon's genes. In no way should Mew's story crossover with Arceus's. Mew is simply a very powerful Pokemon whose initial theorised origin is wrong.[[User:Bttsstewart|Bttsstewart]] 04:48, 8 December 2008 (UTC)Bttsstewart

== STAB ==

The movesets seem to automatically assume Arceus is of the Fighting Type. I am unfamiliar with how this is coded, and so don't know how to fix it - is there anyone who can fix it?[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 06:00, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
:Don't you mean Dragon-type? --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 06:03, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
::Everything on the page assumes that Arceus is a randomly-generated type. It's a bit of code TTE added.--[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 06:42, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
:::Arceus is a {{type2|{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|0=???|1=Normal|2=Fighting|3=Flying|4=Poison|5=Ground|6=Rock|7=Bug|8=Ghost|9=Steel|10=Fire|11=Water|12=Grass|13=Electric|14=Psychic|15=Ice|16=Dragon|17=Dark}}}}... everyone knows that.
:::Yeah. My random code that changes depending on the time that the page is last loaded to cache. Takes the Unix time (seconds since 1/1/1970) and then does a modulo division by 18, assigning one of the eighteen forms of Arceus to each remainder. Unown does a similar thing, but you only notice it in the evoboxes. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 07:04, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
:Um, Hello? Arceus is a normal-type. It's only dragon-type when it's holding the Draco Plate, ect.[[User:Kiryu|Kiryu]] 23:14, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
Edit: Bah! I hate that time-code-thing. [[User:Kiryu|Kiryu]] 23:34, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

== Empty ==

There is no content in the "In the anime", "In the manga" and "In the TCG". So why not somebody delete it?
[[User:FireHazard|FireHazard]] 03:07, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
:So when it comes out we can put it there.All pages fit a designated template[[User:Darth Cookie Monster|DCM]]

== Moves ==
why is the movelist not where its supposed to be????
or is it just my computer????[[User:Dion24|Dion24]] 11:03, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

:It looks fine to me. What problem are you seeing? ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 17:49, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

::The level up nd TM learnsets appear at the top of the page over all the writing [[User:Dion24|Dion24]] 07:53, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

that happened to me, and I realized that happened because I browsed all of the arceus formes or most of them.--[[User:Nobody777|Nobody777]] 13:15, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
:Everything on the page goes wired after you press show sprites and the movelist and everything else goes weird, and this goes for all pages. It might only be my computer, but it should be changed to suit all. --[[User:Wowy|Wowy]] 00:51, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
::I don't understand... What browser are you using? '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 07:01, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

== Sprite and Evolution Sections ==

I think it's kind of wierd to have the rock sprite in the evolution section when it starts out in normal forme without any items on it. Also I think that in the sprite section it should have every sprite for Arceus's forms. This is just a suggestion. Also on a minor edit why is the rock type the default for this page --[[User:23-03-33|Tom]] 12:12, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
:If I remember it right, it depends on the second you go to the page. tc26 12:27, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
::Exact second the page was last purged from cache. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 21:59, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

== Japanese name ==

How can there be a romanization if the Pokémon hasn't been revealed? Where did this romanization come from? And don't try to tell me it's just what the kana says, because it hardly ever is. And you can't even write "rs" in kana. Which means this comes from somewhere. So ''where''? [[User:Flicky|Fli]][[User talk:Flicky|cky]][[User:Flicky/Latin|1991]] 19:06, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

*Not directly, but the u in ル isn't always vocalized (ス　often does this as well, and occasionally シ　and a few others also do). It's impossible to write in kana, but it's not impossible use in roumaji, because roumaji is intended to be written the way it's pronounced (this is also why the official romanization methods collapse (o)(-), (o)(o), and (o)(u) into ō). Strictly speaking the kana are (A)(ru)(se)(u)(su), but it's pronounced 'Arseus.'[[User:Sailorleo|Sailorleo]] 03:13, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

::That's not the point - it's still not official. I only added the Japanese phonology bit in so no-one would argue about that.
::...so, basically, that was a major fail. From now on, ignore anything I said about whether the name is pronounceable, and can someone just answer my original question: how there can be an official romanization for an unrevealed Pokémon? [[User:Flicky|Fli]][[User talk:Flicky|cky]][[User:Flicky/Latin|1991]] 19:44, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
:::There's not exactly. But it's the best we've got until we get one from Game Freak. So don't go altering it to the "a-roo-see-uu-suu" thing like we've had a problem with on ''other Pokémon'' long ''after'' their romanizations were revealed, like Kurabo. Crab. KRABBY MAN KRABBY. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 22:01, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
::::I did say to forget about the phonology stuff. *headbang* I never said change it to Aruseusu. If anything, the English one makes more sense, because a) it actually comes from Game Freak, and b) they're pronounced the same. [[User:Flicky|Fli]][[User talk:Flicky|cky]][[User:Flicky/Latin|1991]] 18:33, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

== {{p|Darkrai}} ==

[http://www.serebii.net/platinum/legends.shtml] read the darkria section. [[User:Atomix26|Atomix26]] 22:39, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

:Your point being? No offense meant, but I don't see what you're saying. [[User:The Dark Fiddler|Rawr I say!]] 22:48, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
::Pure speculation on Serebii's part. Not worth including in this article. --[[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] |[[User talk:Fabu-Vinny|Talk Page]]| 23:12, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
:::Yeah! I mean, we don't even know if that was Arceus speaking. For all we know, that could just as easily have been Darkrai telling the player about his past. Heck, it could also have just as easily been Cresselia, for all we know. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 02:28, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

== Evolution ==

Can someone put the Platinum Sprite in the evolution section?--Pokelova 20:39, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
:The way we coded the page, we'd need to get sprites of ''all'' the forms first.--[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 03:42, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

==How?==

if Platinum didn't program event Pokémon in it how do we have the Platinum sprite?
that is,unless someone traded it to Pt--[[User:Ultamatecharizard|Ultamatecharizard]] 18:45, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
:Hacked for the sprite? [[User:Phocks]] [[User:Phocks|phocks]] 19:14, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

==No different Pokédex formes==

howcome the Pokédex doesn't show the different type formes as different formes?[[User:Ultamatecharizard|Ultamatecharizard]] 18:59, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
:Just doesn't, I guess. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 04:45, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

==Alpha, not Omega==

Should we note that Arceus is the Alpha Pokemon, and not the Omega Pokemon? This seems to imply that there is still another Pokemon that is stronger than Arceus. [[User:Master Lucario|Master Lucario]]

:Well, its classification as the "Alpha" Pokémon only applies to the English games, as it was classified as the "Creator" Pokémon in the Japanese games. (Right?) Plus, doesn't the English classification simply act as a way to show that it was the first Pokémon, and not as a measure of its strength? [[User:Xous|Xous]] 15:51, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

:If it is the Alpha pokemon.Then what is the Omega Pokemon.[[User:ArceusEX]]
::Magikarp? No, wait - it can Bounce. XD [[User:Tesh|'''TESH''']][[User_talk:Tesh|'''IGIGAS''']] 21:59, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

:::The Omega Pokémon simply doesn't exist yet. Again, the title of "Alpha" was simply used by the English versions because they chose not to dub it the "Creator Pokémon", despite the fact that was its Japanese classification. If there ever is an "Omega" Pokémon, it'll be in a future generation. [[User:Xous|Xous]] 20:23, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

thanks
:Anyone here know the greek alphabet? Arceus was the first pokémon. Alpha is the first letter in the greek alphabet. See the connection? If there were to be a pokémon classified as Omega, the last letter in the greek alphabet, it would have to be the last pokémon in the last generation. Which I doubt we'll ever reach.[[User:Kiryu|Kiryu]] 23:37, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
::[[wp:God|This guy]] was referred to as "the alpha and the omega," and there were quite a few people who came after him. Like, say, us. --[[User:Martonimos|((Marton]] [[User talk:Martonimos|imos))]] 21:18, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
:::I know the greek alphabet~[[User:Pokemaniac102|Ποκεμανιακα0β]] 21:23, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
''That Guy'' is the Alpha AND the Omega because he is going to outlast us all![[User:Monblazon|Monblazon]] 19:37, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

== Evolution ==

Under the Evolution heading, it always shows Arceus in its Water Forme and no other formes. Why? [[User:Blueapple128|Blueapple128]] 18:56, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
:Looks like it's being internally cached. Just add <code>&action=purge</code> to the end of the article's URL and it should change types. - [[User:Kogoro|'''Kogoro''']] '''|''' [[User talk:Kogoro|'''Talk to me''']] '''|''' 19:03, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
::Also, I'm pretty sure that they aren't "Formes". At least, not yet. --[[User:Martonimos|((Marton]] [[User talk:Martonimos|imos))]] 19:36, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
:::I think that TTEchidna should remove the "random type" code. It's a little annoying. [[User:Blueapple128|Blueapple128]] 20:10, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
:::Kogoro, when I add <code>&action=purge</code> to the end of the URL, this happens: http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Arceus_(Pokémon)&action=purge
::::It's <code>?action=purge</code>--[[User:Blazevoir|Blaz]][[User talk:Blazevoir|evoir]][[Special:Contributions/Blazevoir|!!]] 20:37, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

==fire?==
why is arceus being refferred to as a fire type? i mean like it only automatically shows the type effectiveness for the flame plate, its boxes are orange which are for fire types, judgement is stated as a fire type, and its evolution table only has the fire type sprite. [[User:Happizelpom|Happi]][[User talk:Happizelpom|zel]][[Special:Contributions/Happizelpom|pom]] 01:18, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

ok well now its changed to fighting why is arceus' page changing reflecting on its type? [[User:Happizelpom|Happi]][[User talk:Happizelpom|zel]][[Special:Contributions/Happizelpom|pom]] 01:20, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
:Because its designed to change into each of its 17 forms at random each visit to the page. --[[User:PsychicRider|'''Psychic''']][[User talk:PsychicRider|'''Rider''']]''''[[Special:Contributions/PsychicRider|'''☮''']]'' 01:21, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

oh ok thank you! [[User:Happizelpom|Happi]][[User talk:Happizelpom|zel]][[Special:Contributions/Happizelpom|pom]] 01:22, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
:You're very welcome. --[[User:PsychicRider|'''Psychic''']][[User talk:PsychicRider|'''Rider''']]''''[[Special:Contributions/PsychicRider|'''☮''']]'' 01:23, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

== Ghost-favoring? ==

There are several Ghost-favoring things I found on the page that I want to know why they are there.
a) The Pkdx entry has a ghost-coloured heading background and border.
b) Location, same as A
c) The 'With Spooky Plate Equipped' section cannot be retracted
d) Learnset sections are I) Using Ghost-Type borders, II) Using Ghost-Type rather than Normal-type STAB, III) Using Judgement as Ghost-type rather than Normal-Type, to make STAB (but makes sense)
e) Using a Ghost-type sprite rather than a normal-type for the Evolution section
I want to know who's favouring ghost-types, '''NNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!''' - ''unsigned comment from [[User:Giratina's Embodiment|Giratina's Embodiment]] ([[User talk:Giratina's Embodiment|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Giratina's Embodiment|contribs]]){{ #if: | {{{2}}} |}}''
:<nowiki>*</nowiki>sigh* This has already been covered multiple times, including the section right above this one. It changes whenever you refresh the page. --[[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] |[[User talk:Fabu-Vinny|Talk Page]]| 19:27, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
::The type in the infobox is normal. Should we leave it like that, or change it to reflect the type on the rest of the page? --[[User:Martonimos|((Marton]] [[User talk:Martonimos|imos))]] 21:50, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
:::No, to save from misconception~[[User:Pokemaniac102|Ποκεμανιακα0β]] 21:51, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
::::Misconception and the ability for this page to be in 17 categories at once. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 03:47, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

== Tag ==

what is the tag for the random sprite generator because i wanted to add that to some of my pages for school to impress my friends. i hope this isnt too much to ask for. --[[User:23-03-33|Tom]] 19:47, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
:Tag? It's wikicoding based off of the time in seconds since January 1, 1970 at midnight, UTC. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 21:09, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
:: I thought it was some type of javascript or css script that was used. it is a simple misunderstanding. [[User:23-03-33|Tom]] 03:42, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
:::Nope, just wiki. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 03:46, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

== You know... I just had an idea. ==

What if you had ??? Arceus, and it was confused and hurt itself. Since confusion causes you to deal a ???-type 40-power move to yourself, would Arceus then therefore get STAB on this? '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 03:50, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
:Isn't the ???-type super effective on everything? '''[[User:Optimatum|<sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Optimatum|Talk]]|[[User:Optimatum/sig/Pikachu|Links]] 08:34, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
::The ???-type needs to be thoroughly researched. Anyone want to take the responsibility? [[User:Tesh|TESH]][[User_talk:Tesh|IGIGAS]] 21:05, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
:::???-type does normal damage to any type, including its own. And of STAB, well, it DOES get stab. '''[[User:Hfc2x|hfc]][[User talk:Hfc2x|2X]]''' 21:13, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
If a ???-type Arceus is burned while fighting another ???-type, which gets the STAB? Is it the same as being confused? In other words: which Pokémon does the damage for burn come from? [[User:LordArceus|LordArceus]] 17:43, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
::::Burn does always inflict 1/8 of the max HP of the sufferer, so the burn does not get STAB. It's like if Dragon rage was ???-type, it will always inflict 40HP damage anyways. '''[[User:Hfc2x|hfc]][[User talk:Hfc2x|2X]]''' 20:49, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

== The Horse God? ==

Anyone other than me noticed Arceus is very similar to a horse? Especially it's Platinum sprite, where it appears to be rearing up. I'm even working on a fandom book series ''The Pokemon Befriender,'' and as I am waiting to send this to Nintendo, I decided to put Arceus in there, decepting it as a horse. If you want to get some idea on the series, email me. [[User:Giratina's Embodiment|Giratina's Embodiment]] 17:27, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
:Thats advertising. In addition, when i see Arceus, i think of Pan, god of Nature.--[[User:DCM|DCM]][[User talk:DCM|((Shut the **** up]][[Special:Contributions/DCM|Spy on My Edits))]]
::I think: Arceus = Legendary mule [[User:Tesh|'''TESH''']][[User_talk:Tesh|'''IGIGAS''']] 17:42, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
:::Yeah, Arceus is pretty much a horse. Just watch it in PBR. No question. However, I don't think the fact that it's based off of a horse is important to its role as a Creator Pokémon. [[User:Xous|Xous]] 05:30, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, I just thought it interesting that Nintendo would put a fancy horse as a god. [[User:Giratina's Embodiment|Giratina's Embodiment]] 18:09, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

== Spritebox ==

Hey TTE, can you use your magic and make it so the Spritebox shows the correctly typed sprites as described on the page? Last time I went on the archives to check, I tink there was pretty well all the normal and backsprites (just not all shiny).--[[User:MisterE13|MisterE13]] 04:51, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
:The shiny's the issue... I'll do what I can... '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 21:49, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
::Kay, now we need Pt and back sprites for all Arceus forms. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 23:13, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Aron (Pokémon)

2008-10-23T13:34:16Z

Monblazon: grammer

{{PokémonPrevNext | prev=Mawile | next=Lairon }}
{{PokémonInfobox|
name=Aron |
jname=ココドラ |
tmname=Kokodora |
image=304Aron.png |
caption=Artwork from R/S/E |
ndex=304 |
hdex=070 |
adex=131 |
typen=2 |
type1=Steel |
type2=Rock |
species=Iron Armor |
height-ftin=1′04″ |
height-m=0.4 |
weight-lbs=132.3 |
weight-kg=60.0 |
abilityn=2 |
ability1=Sturdy |
ability2=Rock Head |
egggroupn=1 |
egggroup1=Monster |
egggroup2= |
hatchsteps=8,960 |
effortyield=1 Def |
expyield=96 |
lv100exp=1,250,000 |
gender=both |
female=50 |
male=50 |
color=Gray |
catchrate=180 |
body=08 |
pokefordex=aron |
generation=3 |
footnotes=}}
'''Aron''' ([[List of Japanese Pokémon names|Japanese]]: '''ココドラ''' ''Kokodora'') is a dual-type {{2t|Steel|Rock}} Pokémon.

It [[Evolution|evolves]] into {{p|Lairon}} starting at [[level]] 32, who evolves into {{p|Aggron}} starting at [[level]] 42.

==Biology==
===Physiology===
Aron has a body of steel and rock. It has a large steel-clad head with pale blue eyes. A new suit of armor is made when it evolves. The old, discarded armor is salvaged as metal for making iron products.
====Gender differences====
None.

===Special abilities===
With one all-out charge, this Pokémon can demolish even a heavy dump truck.

===Behavior===
===Habitat===
[[Image:Mountain.gif|right|frame|[[List of Pokémon by habitat#Mountain Pokémon|Mountain Pokémon]]]]
It usually lives deep within mountains.

===Diet===
{{main|Pokémon food}}

Aron eats metal, which sometimes leads it to eating bridges, rails, and other important items.

==In the anime==
[[Image:Aron anime.jpg|right|thumb|A group of Aron in the anime.]]
Aron first appeared in ''[[AG022|A Hole Lotta Trouble]]''. {{Ash}}, {{an|May}}, [[Max]], [[Brock]] and [[Team Rocket]] got themselves lost in a cave full of the Iron Armor Pokémon.

==In the manga==
==In the TCG==
{{main|Aron (TCG)}}

==Game data==
===NPC appearances===
* [[Pokémon Pinball: Ruby & Sapphire]]: The EVO Mode banner features an Aron.

===Pokédex entries===
{{Dex
|type=steel
|gen=3
|rubydex=This Pokémon has a body of steel. To make its body, Aron feeds on iron ore that it digs from mountains. Occasionally, it causes major trouble by eating bridges and rails.
|sapphiredex=Aron has a body of steel. With one all-out charge, this Pokémon can demolish even a heavy dump truck. The destroyed dump truck then becomes a handy meal for the Pokémon.
|emeralddex=A Pokémon that is clad in steel armor. A new suit of armor is made when it evolves. The old, discarded armor is salvaged as metal for making iron products.
|firereddex=It eats iron to build its steel body. It is a pest that descends from mountains to eat bridges and train tracks.
|leafgreendex=It eats iron to build its steel body. It is a pest that descends from mountains to eat bridges and train tracks.
|diamonddex=It usually lives deep in mountains. However, hunger may drive it to eat railroad tracks and cars.
|pearldex=It usually lives deep in mountains. However, hunger may drive it to eat railroad tracks and cars.
|}}

===Game locations===
{{Availability|
type=steel |
gen=3 |
rsrarity=Common |
rsarea=[[Granite Cave]], {{ho|Victory Road}} |
erarity=Common |
earea=[[Granite Cave]], {{ho|Victory Road}} |
xdrarity=Uncommon |
xdarea=[[Cave Poké Spot]] |
dprarity=Rare |
dparea=[[Fuego Ironworks]] ([[Poké Radar]])|
gen4ex=diamond |
palarea=Mountain |
}}

====In side games====

{| border="1" style="border: 1px solid #999; border-collapse: collapse; background: white; margin: auto;" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="2"
|- style="background: #{{steel color}};"
! Game
! Location
|-
| [[Pokémon Pinball: Ruby & Sapphire]]
| Hatch from egg
|-
| [[Pokémon Trozei!]]
| Secret Storage 5 Secret Storage 16 Endless Level 18 Mr. Who's Den
|-
| [[Pokémon Mystery Dungeon|Pokémon Mystery Dungeon (Red and Blue)]]
| [[Mt. Steel]] (1F-8F) [[Buried Relic]] (14F-19F) [[Wish Cave]] (7F-10F)
|-
| [[Pokémon Mystery Dungeon 2|Pokémon Mystery Dungeon (Time and Darkness)]]
| [[Northern Desert]] (1F-8F)
|-
| [[Pokémon Ranger: Shadows of Almia]]
| [[Inochi Cliff]]
|}

===Base stats===
{{BaseStats|
HP=50 |
Attack=70 |
Defense=100 |
SpAtk=40 |
SpDef=40 |
Speed=30 }}

===Type effectiveness===
{{DP Type effectiveness|
type1=steel|
type2=rock|
Normal= 25 |
Fighting=400 |
Flying= 25 |
Poison= 0 |
Ground= 400 |
Rock= 50 |
Bug= 50 |
Ghost= 50 |
Steel= 100 |

Fire= 100 |
Water= 200 |
Grass= 100 |
Electric=100 |
Psychic= 50 |
Ice= 50 |
Dragon= 50 |
Dark= 50 }}

===Learnset===
====By [[Level|leveling up]]====
{{movelist|steel|rock|4|3|Aron}}
{{mlentry4|Start|Tackle|Normal|Physical|35|95|35|Tough|3}}
{{mlentry4|4|Harden|Normal|Status|—|—|30|Tough|2}}
{{mlentry4|8|Mud-Slap|Ground|Special|20|100|10|Cute|3}}
{{mlentry4|11|Headbutt|Normal|Physical|70|100|15|Tough|3}}
{{mlentry4|15|Metal Claw|Steel|Physical|50|95|35|Cool|2||'''}}
{{mlentry4|18|Iron Defense|Steel|Status|—|—|15|Tough|2}}
{{mlentry4|22|Roar|Normal|Status|—|100|20|Cool|0}}
{{mlentry4|25|Take Down|Normal|Physical|90|85|20|Tough|3}}
{{mlentry4|29|Iron Head|Steel|Physical|80|100|15|Tough|2||'''}}
{{mlentry4|32|Protect|Normal|Status|—|—|10|Cute|0}}
{{mlentry4|36|Metal Sound|Steel|Status|—|85|40|Smart|2}}
{{mlentry4|39|Iron Tail|Steel|Physical|100|75|15|Cool|2||'''}}
{{mlentry4|43|Double-Edge|Normal|Physical|120|100|15|Tough|0}}
{{mlentry4|46|Metal Burst|Steel|Physical|—|100|10|Beauty|2}}
{{movelist/note|3}}

====By [[TM]]/[[HM]]====
{{movelisttm|steel|rock|4|3|Aron}}
{{mlentry4|[[TM03]]|Water Pulse|Water|Special|60|100|20|Beauty|2}}
{{mlentry4|[[TM05]]|Roar|Normal|Status|—|100|20|Cool|0}}
{{mlentry4|[[TM06]]|Toxic|Poison|Status|—|85|10|Smart|2}}
{{mlentry4|[[TM10]]|Hidden Power|Normal|Special|—|100|15|Smart|1}}
{{mlentry4|[[TM11]]|Sunny Day|Fire|Status|—|—|5|Beauty|2}}
{{mlentry4|[[TM17]]|Protect|Normal|Status|—|—|10|Cute|0}}
{{mlentry4|[[TM18]]|Rain Dance|Water|Status|—|—|5|Tough|2}}
{{mlentry4|[[TM21]]|Frustration|Normal|Physical|—|100|20|Cute|2}}
{{mlentry4|[[TM23]]|Iron Tail|Steel|Physical|100|75|15|Cool|2||'''}}
{{mlentry4|[[TM26]]|Earthquake|Ground|Physical|100|100|10|Tough|2}}
{{mlentry4|[[TM27]]|Return|Normal|Physical|—|100|20|Cute|2}}
{{mlentry4|[[TM28]]|Dig|Ground|Physical|80|100|10|Smart|1}}
{{mlentry4|[[TM32]]|Double Team|Normal|Status|—|—|15|Cool|2}}
{{mlentry4|[[TM34]]|Shock Wave|Electric|Special|60|—|20|Cool|2}}
{{mlentry4|[[TM37]]|Sandstorm|Rock|Status|—|—|10|Tough|2}}
{{mlentry4|[[TM39]]|Rock Tomb|Rock|Physical|50|80|10|Smart|2||'''}}
{{mlentry4|[[TM40]]|Aerial Ace|Flying|Physical|60|—|20|Cool|2}}
{{mlentry4|[[TM42]]|Facade|Normal|Physical|70|100|20|Cute|2}}
{{mlentry4|[[TM43]]|Secret Power|Normal|Physical|70|100|20|Smart|2}}
{{mlentry4|[[TM44]]|Rest|Psychic|Status|—|—|10|Cute|0}}
{{mlentry4|[[TM45]]|Attract|Normal|Status|—|100|15|Cute|2}}
{{mlentry4|[[TM58]]|Endure|Normal|Status|—|—|10|Tough|2}}
{{mlentry4|[[TM65]]|Shadow Claw|Ghost|Physical|70|100|15|Cute|2}}
{{mlentry4|[[TM69]]|Rock Polish|Rock|Status|—|—|20|Tough|0}}
{{mlentry4|[[TM76]]|Stealth Rock|Rock|Status|—|—|20|Cool|2}}
{{mlentry4|[[TM78]]|Captivate|Normal|Status|—|100|20|Beauty|2}}
{{mlentry4|[[TM80]]|Rock Slide|Rock|Physical|75|90|10|Tough|3||'''}}
{{mlentry4|[[TM82]]|Sleep Talk|Normal|Status|—|—|10|Cute|3}}
{{mlentry4|[[TM83]]|Natural Gift|Normal|Physical|—|100|15|Cool|2}}
{{mlentry4|[[TM87]]|Swagger|Normal|Status|—|90|15|Cute|2}}
{{mlentry4|[[TM90]]|Substitute|Normal|Status|—|—|10|Smart|1}}
{{mlentry4|[[HM01]]|Cut|Normal|Physical|50|95|30|Cool|3}}
{{mlentry4|[[HM04]]|Strength|Normal|Physical|80|100|15|Tough|3}}
{{mlentry4|[[HM06]]|Rock Smash|Fighting|Physical|40|100|15|Tough|2}}
{{movelist/note|4}}

====By {{pkmn|breeding}}====
{{eggmoves|steel|rock|4|3|Aron}}
{{mlentry4|{{p|Lapras}} {{p|Snorlax}} {{p|Chikorita}}, {{p|Bayleef}}, {{p|Meganium}} {{p|Tropius}}|Body Slam|Normal|Physical|85|100|15|Tough|3}}
{{mlentry4|{{p|Slowpoke}}, {{p|Slowbro}}, {{p|Slowking}} {{p|Turtwig}}, {{p|Grotle}}, {{p|Torterra}}|Curse|???|Status|—|—|10|Tough|0}}
{{mlentry4|{{p|Gible}}, {{p|Gabite}}, {{p|Garchomp}}|Dragon Rush|Dragon|Physical|100|75|10|Cool|2}}
{{mlentry4|{{p|Cubone}}, {{p|Marowak}} {{p|Mudkip}}, {{p|Marshtomp}}, {{p|Swampert}} {{p|Rampardos}}|Endeavor|Normal|Physical|—|100|5|Tough|2}}
{{mlentry4|{{p|Aron}}, {{p|Lairon}}, {{p|Aggron}} {{p|Shieldon}}, {{p|Bastiodon}}|Iron Head|Steel|Physical|80|100|15|Tough|2||'''}}
{{mlentry4|{{p|Lickitung}}, {{p|Lickilicky}} {{p|Totodile}}, {{p|Croconaw}}, {{p|Feraligatr}} {{p|Larvitar}}, {{p|Pupitar}}, {{p|Tyranitar}} {{p|Treecko}}, {{p|Grovyle}}, {{p|Sceptile}} {{p|Whismur}}, {{p|Loudred}}, {{p|Exploud}} {{p|Cranidos}}, {{p|Rampardos}}|Screech|Normal|Status|—|85|40|Smart|1}}
{{mlentry4|{{p|Lickitung}}, {{p|Lickilicky}} {{p|Whismur}}, {{p|Loudred}}, {{p|Exploud}}|SmellingSalt|Normal|Physical|60|100|10|Smart|0|*}}
{{mlentry4|{{p|Lickitung}}, {{p|Lickilicky}} {{p|Rhyhorn}}, {{p|Rhydon}}, {{p|Rhyperior}} {{p|Whismur}}, {{p|Loudred}}, {{p|Exploud}} {{p|Tropius}}|Stomp|Normal|Physical|65|100|20|Tough|3}}
{{eggmoves/note|4}}

====By [[Move tutor|tutoring]]====
{{tutor|steel|rock|4b|3a|Aron}}
{{mtentry4|Body Slam|Normal|Physical|85|100|15|Tough|3|||yes|yes|no|no|no}}
{{mtentry4|Defense Curl|Normal|Status|—|—|40|Cute|2|||no|yes|no|no|no}}
{{mtentry4|Double-Edge|Normal|Physical|120|100|15|Tough|0|||yes|yes|no|no|no}}
{{mtentry4|Endure|Normal|Status|—|—|10|Tough|2|||no|yes|no|no|no}}
{{mtentry4|Fury Cutter|Bug|Physical|10|95|20|Cool|2|||no|yes|no|no|no}}
{{mtentry4|Mimic|Normal|Status|—|—|10|Cute|0|||yes|yes|no|no|no}}
{{mtentry4|Mud-Slap|Ground|Special|20|100|10|Cute|3|||no|yes|no|no|no}}
{{mtentry4|Rock Slide|Rock|Physical|75|90|10|Tough|3||'''|yes|yes|no|no|no}}
{{mtentry4|Rollout|Rock|Physical|30|90|20|Tough|2||'''|no|yes|no|no|no}}
{{mtentry4|Sleep Talk|Normal|Status|—|—|10|Cute|3|||no|yes|no|no|no}}
{{mtentry4|Snore|Normal|Special|40|100|15|Cool|3|||no|yes|no|no|no}}
{{mtentry4|Substitute|Normal|Status|—|—|10|Smart|1|||yes|yes|no|no|no}}
{{mtentry4|Superpower|Fighting|Physical|120|100|5|Tough|2|||no|no|no|no|yes}}
{{mtentry4|Swagger|Normal|Status|—|90|15|Cute|2|||no|yes|no|no|no}}
{{tutor/note|4}}

====Special moves====

===Side game data===

{{Side game|
type=steel |
ndex=304 |
PinRScatch=yes |
HC=H |
Trozei=yes |
rarity=Common |
Dungeon=yes |
body=1 |
rate=7.8% |
area=Mt. Cleft |
P1= I grow big on a diet of iron! |
P2= Only half my health is left... |
P3= I'm not up to it... I don't have any energy left... |
PL= I leveled up! I wish I had more iron to eat! |
Partner=no |
Ranger=no |
Ranger2=yes |
typeG2= Steel |
typeA2= Steel |
field2= Tackle |
}}

===Evolution===
{{evobox/2|304|Aron|2|Steel|Rock|[[Level|Level 32]]|305|Lairon|2|Steel|Rock|[[Level|Level 42]]|306|Aggron|2|Steel|Rock}}

===Sprites===
{{Sprite|
type=steel|
gen=3|
gender=none|
ndex=304|
name=Aron|
}}

==Trivia==
*Aron's name is an anagram of {{b2|Oran}}; it is the only Pokémon whose name is an anagram of a Berry.

===Origin===
Aron may have been based on a ''{{wp|tortoise}}''.

====Name origin====
Aron's name may be a combination of ''{{wp|armor}}'' and ''{{wp|iron}}''. Aron's Japanese name can be broken down into 子 ''ko'', child, ''{{p2|Lairon|Kodora}}''. Kodora is the Japanese name of Aron's evolution, {{p|Lairon}}, hence ''child Kodora''.

==In other languages==
*[[List of German Pokémon names|German]]: Stollunior
*[[List of French Pokémon names|French]]: Galekid
*[[List of Korean Pokémon names|Korean]]: 가보리 ''Gabori''

==External links==
*[[wp:Aron (Pokémon)|Article on Wikipedia]]

{{PokémonPrevNext | prev=Mawile | next=Lairon }}
{{Project Pokédex notice}}
[[de:Stollunior]]
[[ja:ココドラ]]

[[Category:Pokémon that are part of a three-stage evolutionary line]]
[[pt:Aron (pokémon)]]

'M (00)

2008-10-06T18:39:29Z

Monblazon: /* Appearance and attributes */ spelling

''For the {{p|Charizard}} [[Hybrid Glitch Pokémon|hybrid]] of the same name, see [[Charizard 'M]].''
----
{{GlitchPkmnInfobox|
name='M |
image=000.png |
caption='M|
ndex=000 |
typen=2|
type1=Normal |
type2=Bird |
Versions=Red, Blue|
HexID=00|
Mew#= 0|
Oldman#= N/A|
gender=none |
female=0 |
male=0 |
catchrate=3 |
}}

''''M''' is a [[Glitch Pokémon]] found in the [[Pokémon]] [[Pokémon Red and Blue Versions|Red and Blue]] [[Game Boy]] games, much like [[Missingno.]]. It is most commonly called "'M", since the apostrophe and capital letter M are the only typographical characters in its name - "▄█ <code>'M</code> ▓▒" is difficult, if not impossible, to produce with a computer. It is also called "'M Block" because of the glitchy blocks next to its name. 'M and other glitch Pokémon appear in the games due to a programming oversight.

The encounter flag for Missingno. and 'M is the highest bit of the 6th item quantity; therefore, encountering Missingno. or 'M causes the player to get 128 more of the 6th item of their bag if they have less than 128 to start. Also, if the player has [[Hall of Fame]] data, encountering 'M. corrupts it. Aside from that, 'M does not have a real ability; in [[Pokémon Red and Blue Versions|Pokémon Red and Blue]] abilities did not exist yet.

=Game data=
==Game locations==
{| border="1" style="border: 1px solid #999; border-collapse: collapse; background: white; margin: auto;" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="2"
|- style="background: #{{normal color}};"
! [[Generation|Gen]]
! Game
! [[Rarity]]
! Location
|-
| style="background: #E6E6E6;" align="center" | '''[[Generation I|I]]'''
| [[Pokémon Red and Blue Versions|Pokémon Red and Blue]]
| Glitch
| [[Rare Candy cheat]], [[Mew glitch]]
|}

==Base stats==
{|
|-
|style="text-align:right;"|HP:
!style="text-align:left;"|33
|<div class="statbar" style="background-color: red; width: 33px; height: 10px; border: 1px solid black; overflow: hidden;"> </div>
|-
|style="text-align:right;"|Attack:
!style="text-align:left;"|137
|<div class="statbar" style="background-color: rgb(240,128,48); width: 137px; height: 10px; border: 1px solid black; overflow: hidden;"> </div>
|-
|style="text-align:right;"|Defense:
!style="text-align:left;"|1
|<div class="statbar" style="background-color: rgb(248,208,48); width: 1px; height: 10px; border: 1px solid black; overflow: hidden;"> </div>
|-
|style="text-align:right;"|Special:
!style="text-align:left;"|29
|<div class="statbar" style="background-color: rgb(112,172,160); width: 29px; height: 10px; border: 1px solid black; overflow: hidden;"> </div>
|-
|style="text-align:right;"|Speed:
!style="text-align:left;"|6
|<div class="statbar" style="background-color: rgb(248,88,136); width: 6px; height: 10px; border: 1px solid black; overflow: hidden;"> </div>
|}

Since 'M does not exist in any game that uses the Special Attack and Special Defense stats, only its Special stat is listed.

==Type effectiveness==
{{DP Type effectiveness|
type1=Normal|
type2=bird|
Normal= 100 |
Flying= 100 |
Fighting=200 |
Ground= 100 |
Rock= 100 |
Bug= 100 |
Poison= 100 |
Ghost= 0 |
Fire= 100 |
Water= 100 |
Grass= 100 |
Electric=100 |
Psychic= 100 |
Ice= 100 |
Dragon= 100 |
notes=yes|
glitch=secondary}}

==How 'M is found==
[[Image:M Encounter.png|thumb|right|'M being encountered]]

The most common way players encounter 'M in the ''Red'' and ''Blue'' versions of ''Pokémon'' is by doing the following:
*Going to the northern part of Viridian City and watching the Old Man's demonstration of how to catch a Pokémon.
*{{m|Fly}}ing or {{m|Teleport}}ing to [[Cinnabar Island]] or [[Fuchsia City]].
*Surfing up and down along the east coast of Cinnabar Island or the [[Seafoam Islands]] closest to Fuchsia City until 'M appears. In Pokémon Stadium, the game saves automatically upon encountering 'M.<ref>[http://www.cheatsnetwork.com/cheats/2480.html Pokémon (Game Boy)] ''Cheats Network'' URL Accessed July 23, 2006</ref>, <ref>[http://pages.prodigy.net/maryjorhodes/codespok.htm Mew's Pokémon Gameboy Cheats] ''Pokémon Glitch Fan Site'' URL Accessed July 23, 2006</ref>
*Alternatively, a player can also cause 'M to appear by trading Pokémon with a friend via a link cable or with one of the in-game traders, then Flying or Teleporting to Cinnabar or the Seafoam Islands and surfing along the coast as mentioned before.
*'M (and its {{v2|Yellow}} counterpart, [[3TrainerPoké]]) cannot be encountered through the [[Mew Glitch]], since the required Special stat is 0, and that low of any stat is impossible.
*For some reason, 'M will appear through the [[Old Man Glitch]] regardless of the player's name.

==Appearance and attributes==
There are 256 available [[index number|memory "slots"]] for Pokémon data; 'M is found in the first slot, #0. (151 other slots are real Pokémon; 47 are trainers; 38 are Missingno., and the remaining 18 are other glitches like 'M.
<ref>[http://www.trsrockin.com/missingno4.html Missingno. Mystery Solved] ''Team Rocket Fansite'' URL Accessed July 23, 2006</ref>)

Although it seems at first glance to be like [[Missingno.]], they are actually different glitches with many differences; for example, 'M can evolve into {{p|Kangaskhan}} while Missingno. cannot. Missingno.'s cry differs between a shortened version of {{p|Nidoran♂}}'s cry, {{p|Ditto}}'s cry, and {{p|Dragonair}}'s cry, whereas 'M's cry is a slightly different version of {{p|Zapdos}}'s cry. If 'M is traded to the {{v|Yellow}}, it will become a [[3TrainerPoké]], but when Missingno. is traded to the Yellow version, it stays as Missingno. (although it will behave differently than the Red/Blue Missingno.).

In the party, 'M will appear as the glitched sprite of a person in the area where the player currently is.

'M, like most forms of [[Missingno.]], appears as a mass of pixels in a backwards 'L' shape. Its icon in the Pokémon menu is also glitched, often appearing as a pixelated Surfing icon or a black blob (it changes based on the player's location). When used in [[Pokémon Stadium (English)|Pokémon Stadium]], it looks like a {{m|Substitute}} doll.

Also like [[Missingno.]], 'M is often of the type Bird/Normal, knows {{m|Sky Attack}} and two {{m|Water Gun}}s, has the ID number #000, does not appear in the Pokédex, and is found through the same glitches as Missingno. is. However, it is ''not'' the same Pokémon. 'M and the different versions of Missingno are located in different memory slots; also, 'M has a different cry, learns {{m|Pound}} at level 138, and can evolve into a {{p|Kangaskhan}}. (Its evolution is not random: 'M's identifier is 0 and Kangaskhan's is 2.)<ref>[http://www.trsrockin.com/hexlist.html R/B Hex List] ''Team Rocket Fansite'' URL Accessed July 27, 2006</ref>

The blocks in 'M's name depend on which sprite is occupying the spot where the player's Pokémon appears. In battle, the block on the left of its name will copy part of the sprite in the bottom-left corner of the screen (the player's Pokémon), while the block on the right will copy part of the sprite in the upper-right corner of the screen (the opponent's Pokémon). Out of battle, the blocks in its name will change depending on the player's location.

When the player captures an 'M, the battle will continue. Capturing "'M" again will result in capturing a {{p|Ditto}}; why this happens is unknown.

==Learnset==
{{learnset intro|'M}}

===By [[Level|leveling up]]===
{| border=1 align="center" style="background: #f8f8f8; border: 1px solid #999; border-collapse: collapse; background: white; margin: auto;" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="2"
|- style="background: #{{flying color}};"
! colspan="3" | [[Generation I]]
|- style="background: #{{normal color}};"
! [[Level]]
! [[Move]]
! [[Type]]
|-
| rowspan="3" | Start || {{m|Water Gun}} || {{ic|Water}}
|-
| {{m|Water Gun}} || {{ic|Water}}
|-
| {{m|Sky Attack}} || {{ic|Flying}}
|-
| rowspan="1" | 138 || '''{{m|Pound}}''' || {{ic|Normal}}
|}

===By [[TM]]/[[HM]]===
{| border="1" style="background: #f8f8f8; border: 1px solid #999; border-collapse: collapse; background: white; margin: auto;" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="2"
|- style="background: #{{flying color}};"
! colspan="3" | [[Generation I]]
|- style="background: #{{normal color}};"
! [[TM|#]]
! [[Move]]
! [[Type]]
|-
| [[TM01]] || '''{{m|Mega Punch}}''' || {{ic|Normal}}
|-
| [[TM02]] || '''{{m|Razor Wind}}''' || {{ic|Normal}}
|-
| [[TM03]] || {{m|Swords Dance}} || {{ic|Normal}}
|-
| [[TM05]] || '''{{m|Mega Kick}}''' || {{ic|Normal}}
|-
| [[TM06]] || {{m|Toxic}} || {{ic|Poison}}
|-
| [[TM09]] || '''{{m|Take Down}}''' || {{ic|Normal}}
|-
| [[TM10]] || '''{{m|Double-Edge}}''' || {{ic|Normal}}
|-
| [[TM11]] || {{m|BubbleBeam}} || {{ic|Water}}
|-
| [[TM13]] || {{m|Ice Beam}} || {{ic|Ice}}
|-
| [[TM14]] || {{m|Blizzard}} || {{ic|Ice}}
|-
| [[TM17]] || {{m|Submission}} || {{ic|Fighting}}
|-
| [[TM19]] || {{m|Seismic Toss}} || {{ic|Fighting}}
|-
| [[TM20]] || '''{{m|Rage}}''' || {{ic|Normal}}
|-
| [[TM25]] || {{m|Thunder}} || {{ic|Electric}}
|-
| [[TM26]] || {{m|Earthquake}} || {{ic|Ground}}
|-
| [[TM27]] || {{m|Fissure}} || {{ic|Ground}}
|-
| [[TM29]] || {{m|Psychic}} || {{ic|Psychic}}
|-
| [[TM30]] || {{m|Teleport}} || {{ic|Psychic}}
|-
| [[TM43]] || {{m|Sky Attack}} || {{ic|Flying}}
|-
| [[TM44]] || {{M|Rest}} || {{ic|Psychic}}
|-
| [[TM45]] || {{m|Thunder Wave}} || {{ic|Electric}}
|-
| [[TM49]] || '''{{m|Tri Attack}}''' || {{ic|Normal}}
|-
| [[HM01]] || '''{{M|Cut}}''' || {{ic|Normal}}
|-
| [[HM02]] || {{M|Fly}} || {{ic|Flying}}
|}

==Advantages and disadvantages of 'M==
Encountering 'M, [[Missingno.]], and other glitch Pokémon often interferes with the saved game data in various ways. Trainer and Pokémon graphics during battle are corrupted; the Hall of Fame data is extremely glitched (changes in screen color, music, and game speed have been known to occur alongside the obvious unidentifiable pixelations substituting for where Pokémon appeared).

'M's presence also allows what is known as the "[[Rare Candy Cheat]]" or "Item Duplication Cheat", the Pokémon games' infamous item duplication bug, which adds 128 of the sixth item in the player's inventory, if the player already has less than 128 of that sixth item. It is commonly used to duplicate valuable and hard-to-obtain items, such as [[Rare Candy|Rare Candies]], [[PP Up]]s, and Master Balls. However, the duplication bug can affect any item in the game, not just Rare Candies. Using the bug to duplicate Key Items is possible, allowing the player to obtain more fossils for reviving {{p|Kabuto}}, {{p|Omanyte}}, and {{p|Aerodactyl}}; though many do not recommend this, as the player cannot get rid of duplicated key items through "tossing" or selling, and they serve only to take up inventory space.

The coasts where 'M may be found are used for other cheats as well. If the player {{m|Surf}}s along the coasts after leaving an area where certain wild Pokémon appear, those Pokémon will continue to appear by the coast, even if they are not water-dwelling Pokémon. This is because Surfing along the coasts does not overwrite the data for which wild Pokémon are available, and if the player's name has not been stored in that area through one of the procedures above, the previous wild Pokémon will appear. (see reference 4) This glitch can be used to fight Pokémon from the Safari Zone in a normal battle.

Another advantage of the 'M is its ability to evolve into {{p|Kangaskhan}}. TMs and HMs taught to 'M will carry over when it evolves to Kangaskhan, enabling a Kangaskhan to have moves it wouldn't ordinarily be able to learn, like {{m|Fly}}.

==Charizard 'M==
''Main article: [[Charizard 'M]]''

Other in-game glitches (notably the [[Mew glitch]]) can produce the "Charizard 'M", a Pokémon named 'M but with the {{p|Charizard}} graphic. It is not to be confused with [[Glitchy Charizard]], a similar but unrelated glitch caused by the [[Mew glitch]]. Charizard 'M is a different from the typical 'M, and causes significantly more damage to the game. Charizard 'M can also change all of a player's [[party]] Pokémon into Charizard 'M, but the moves and type do not change, and putting these "transformed" Pokémon into a box makes the other Pokémon Charizard 'M also.

Depending on the circumstances, Charizard 'M can overwrite the player's name with the letter Z, engage a new battle from the battle screen, or transform all party Pokémon into {{p|Bulbasaur}}.<ref>[http://www.trsrockin.com/dex_charzm.html Dex Charizard] ''Team Rocket Fansite'' URL Accessed July 23, 2006</ref>

Charizard 'M can be obtained by doing the following:
*Catch a [[44Hy]] in the Yellow version by doing Method #3 of the [[Mew glitch]] using a Pokémon with a special stat of 192, or trade a [[A|Lowercase A glitch]] from Red/Blue
*Evolve the [[44Hy]] into a [[Q]] (the Yellow equivalent of Charizard 'M)
*Trade the [[Q]] to the Red/Blue and it will become Charizard 'M

Unlike other glitch Pokémon, a Charizard 'M's ID number is always #000 and its Original Trainer will either be blank or a set of letters partially from the player's name. As a result, it is impossible to nickname a Charizard 'M. Its cry is static and sometimes causes the background music to end. Charizard 'M is found in all the slots from 248 to 255, not slot 0 like 'M; they are not the same glitch. Its type, like a normal Charizard's, is Fire/Flying. (See above reference.) There are reports that Charizard 'M can be used to swap moves of Pokémon stored in the PC, depending on the order they are withdrawn. Additionally, Charizard 'M is not recognized by the game as a Pokémon in many circumstances. If a player places it in his or her party, it will render all other Pokémon invisible (see above reference). Furthermore, Charizard 'M cannot be healed at a Pokémon Center.

The Charizard 'M learns different attacks than a normal 'M: it learns Swords Dance at level 9, Slam at 11, TM50 (a glitch attack, not the move Substitute) at level 19, a nameless glitch attack at level 28, TM09 at level 30, Aurora Beam at 32, TM29 (another glitch, not Psychic) at level 33, Karate Chop at level 40, and Jack (apparently a glitch which reads one of the pre-loaded names for the player character or rival) at level 62. (See above reference.)

Although Charizard 'M seems to be the most common form (possibly caused by a blank spot in the party), this glitch can also appear as another Pokémon, such as {{p|Gengar}}, {{p|Machop}}, {{p|Ditto}}, or {{p|Butterfree}}. The glitch will have the same types as the normal Pokémon, but will learn very different level-up moves.

Sometimes, if game link activity goes wrong (typically from faulty link cables or dirty connectors), glitched Pokémon may be produced, in which a Charizard 'M is a possible result.

==In Pokémon Stadium==
'M and [[Missingno.]] can be uploaded to {{eng|Pokémon Stadium}}, and (if the game doesn't freeze) will look like Substitute dolls (small {{p|Rhydon}} or {{p|Kangaskhan}}-like figures that appear when a Pokémon uses {{m|Substitute}}). 'M's graphic is blue and Missingno.'s is purple. When viewed in the Pokémon Center, all of 'M's stats will be question marks (including the Pokédex species ID number, even though the Game Boy versions identify 'M and Missingno. as #000). However, 'M will not be allowed to battle, nor will it function correctly in the Gallery (in which players can take pictures of Pokémon). Photos of it will not develop if taken.

If 'M or any other glitch Pokémon is selected in the "see list", the game will freeze, playing the music without the bass track in the background. If a player tries to view 'M's stats, the game will also freeze on occasion. <ref>[http://www.console-cheats.com/nintendo64/PokemonStadium.shtml Pokémon Stadium Cheats] ''Console Cheats'' URL Accessed July 23, 2006</ref>

==Generation II==
'M cannot be traded to [[Pokémon Gold and Silver]] because it supposedly does not exist in the second generation. In the trade center, 'M appears as a {{p|Slowpoke}} or {{p|Tyrogue}}. When the players try to trade 'M, a message appears stating "Your friend's ['M's name] appears to be abnormal." and the trade is canceled automatically. Less often, 'M can be traded, in which case it turns into the Pokémon it was displayed as. <ref>[http://pages.prodigy.net/maryjorhodes/codespok.htm Code Pok] ''Prodigy.net'' URL Accessed July 23, 2006</ref>

Similar problems present themselves when attempting to transfer 'M or [[Missingno.]] to Pokémon Stadium 2. If successfully transferred, 'M and Missingno. will become a {{p|Ditto}}. <ref>[http://www.funtrivia.com/en/VideoGames/Pokemon-RedBlueYellow*-13505.html Pokémon Red, Blue and Yellow] ''Fun Trivia'' URL Accessed July 23, 2006</ref>

==Evolution==

{{evobox/1branch1|000|'M|2|Normal|Bird|[[Level|Level 0]]|115|Kangaskhan|1|Normal||[[Level|Level 128]]|035|Clefairy|1|Normal|}}



==Trivia==
*'M's sprite, movepool, and stats are identical to [[Missingno.]]'s, but with two move differences: Missingno. cannot learn {{m|Pound}}, and 'M is incompatible with {{TM|50|Substitute}}. Interestingly enough, its image in Pokémon Stadium is the same as that of a Substitute.
*'M's cry is almost exactly identical to that of {{p|Zapdos}}.
*'M is twice as large as Missingno., but not nearly as heavy.
*If a level 0 'M is captured and sent to the [[PC]] (this also applies to the subsequent {{p|Ditto}}), the game will freeze if the player tries to withdraw either one. This probably started the (fake) rumors of 'M and other [[Glitch Pokémon]] being horribly dangerous to the saved game file if captured.
*If a level 0 'M is given 0 exp from a battle with another level 0 Pokémon, it levels up to 100.

==References==
<references/>
==External Links==
*[http://tbp.berkeley.edu/~jdonald/pokemon/ghostmissingno.html Ghost/Skeleton type MissingNOs, mirrored from Pokémon Paranormal Research Lab/Glitch City]
*[http://www.gamefaqs.com/portable/gameboy/game/367023.html GameFAQs FAQ, details inner workings of the glitch]
*[http://www.trsrockin.com/tales.html Tales from the Glitch at TR's Rockin!]
*[http://glitchcity.net Glitch City, a site about such glitches]
*[http://pages.prodigy.net/maryjorhodes/codespok.htm Mew's Pokémon Information Zone -- info on Missingno.]
*[http://nemesistx_1.tripod.com/profglitch/missingnoandm.htm Missingno. and 'M at Professor Glitch's Laboratory]
*[http://pokeglitch.tripod.com/id3.html Over 100 Items at Poké Glitch]
*[http://www.trsrockin.com/missingno4.html MissingNo Mystery Solved]
*http://www.cheatsnetwork.com/cheats/2480.html
*http://www.edgecheats.com/cheats/2480.html
*http://www.gamerevolution.com/cheat/gameboy/pokemon_bluered
*http://www.dmwright.com/cheats/database/nintendo_game_boy/cheats/gb_pokemon_hints.htm
*http://www.console-cheats.com/nintendo64/PokemonStadium.shtml
[[category:Glitches]]
{{GlitchPkmn}}
{{Project Glitchdex notice}}
[[Category:Glitch Pokémon]]
[[fr:'M]]

Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Time and Explorers of Darkness

2008-10-06T16:59:41Z

Monblazon: /* Trivia */ spelling

{{Infobox_game |
name = Pokémon Mystery Dungeon 2 |
boxart = [[Image:Pokemon MD Explorers of Time.jpg|200px]]
[[Image:Pokemon MD Explorers of Darkness.jpg|200px]] |
caption = The US boxart. |
category = Dungeon Crawler/Roguelike |
players = 1 |
release_date_ja = Sept. 13, 2007 |
release_date_au = June 19, 2008 |
release_date_eu = July 4, 2008 |
release_date_na = Apr. 20, 2008 |
release_date_kr = |
publisher = [[Nintendo]] |
developer = [[Chunsoft]] |
esrb = Everyone |
website_en = [http://www.pokemon-games.com/pokemonmd/ Official English site] |
website_ja = [http://www.pokemon.co.jp/special/dungeon/ Official Japanese site]
}}

'''Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Time''' (Japanese: '''ポケモン不思議のダンジョン時の探検隊''') and '''Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Darkness''' (Japanese: '''ポケモン不思議のダンジョン闇の探検隊''') are a matched pair of Pokémon games for the [[Nintendo DS]].

The games are sequels to [[Pokémon Mystery Dungeon]]. They include the new [[Generation IV]] Pokémon and have some Wi-Fi features, as well as more dual-screen features than their predecessor for the same system (Mystery Dungeon Blue).

An {{an|Pokémon Mystery Dungeon 2|anime adaptation}} of these games has been produced.

These games feature 491 Pokémon; {{p|Shaymin}} and {{p|Arceus}} were excluded for they had yet to be officially revealed when the games were released. The games were released on April 20th, 2008.

==Plot==
{{spoilers}}
The story begins with the {{player}} having been washed ashore by a storm. Meanwhile, the partner is nervous about joining the [[Wigglytuff Guild]], a local exploration club, and gives up early. Walking along the beach, the partner encounters the player, and informs that the player has been turned into a Pokémon. After a brief exchange, the partner explains their motivation for joining the guild the partner loves legends and lore, and his life dream is to find what his personal treasure, the [[Relic Fragment]], belongs to. Before the partner explains further, the Relic Fragment is stolen by Zubat and Koffing, members of [[Team Skull]], which the player helps recover. The partner, reinvigorated by the player's courage, joins the Guild as a new team with the player.

Over the next few days, the team gets accustomed to life at the Guild and the nearby [[Treasure Town]]. Among the folks they meet are {{p|Wigglytuff}}, the kindhearted Guild Leader, {{p|Chatot}}, the hot-tempered yet well-meaning second-in-command, {{p|Bidoof}}, the newest recruit prior to the team joining, the Guild chef {{p|Chimecho}} (also in charge of maintaining the team), {{p|Diglett}} and {{p|Loudred}}, the Guild sentries, {{p|Dugtrio}}, maintainers of the job boards, {{p|Magnezone}}, the local sheriff, and other exploration teams. As they are introduced to the Guild, they learn of the fact that rogue Pokémon have been wreaking havoc in the world due to the disruption of time, Pokémon cannot [[evolution|evolve]], and new "Mystery Dungeons" have been revealed and open to exploration.
The player discovers not too long after that he/she has the ability to spontaneously see things in the past and future, which is known as the [[Dimensional Scream]].

=== The Legend of the Time Gears ===
One stormy night, The partner finds the player and tells the player of the story of the Time Gears, the artifacts that all Pokémon are to avoid lest time stand still. When a Time Gear is stolen, time in that area is frozen. Despite this, a mysterious thief, {{p|Grovyle}}, is stealing the Time Gears.

One day, the player and partner, along with the Guild and Team Skull (as special guests), make an expedition to a location called Fogbound Lake, a lake seemingly covered in fog. Arriving there, the player recalls the place as being familiar, but cannot ascertain as to why. At the top, they find the Lake Guardian {{p|Uxie}}, who is said to be able to erase the memories of all who arrive there. Uxie does not trust the Guild, fearing that they may take the Time Gear at the center of the lake, hence the reason for erasing the memories. However, after an appeal from the partner, the Guild earns Uxie's trust, and Uxie decides not to erase the memories of the Guild or the lake's treasure.

Returning home, they meet a famous explorer named {{p|Dusknoir}}, who explains that the player's ability to see through time is called the Dimensional Scream. Asking Dusknoir how the player had arrived in their condition, they surprisingly get no results. Nevertheless, Dusknoir offers their help in uncovering the secret behind the player's transformation. Just then, however, the Guild reports that the Time Gear from Fogbound Lake has been stolen, and an all-points bulletin has been posted for the arrest of Grovyle. As a result, Wigglytuff has the Guild focus their energies on bringing Grovyle to justice, to which Dusknoir also offers his assistance. The Guild splits up to look for the other Time Gears, while the player's team eventually discovers an underground lake beneath the Northern Desert, which is home to a Time Gear. The Time Gear is guarded over by {{p|Mesprit}}, which the team defeats. Just as the partner explains that they are not there to steal the Time Gear, Grovyle appears. Grovyle easily dispatches the team and the weakened Mesprit, and steals the Time Gear. Fortunately, the team and Mesprit manages to escape before they are frozen in time.

Back at the guild, the failure of the team to stop Grovyle meant that there are no leads to his next location. However, Dusknoir determines that, as Uxie is the being of knowledge, and Mesprit is the being of emotion, thus {{p|Azelf}}, the being of willpower, is likely to be guarding another Time Gear. Dusknoir further explains that as Uxie and Mesprit were encountered in lakes, Azelf is also likely to be found in a lake area. Hoping to find a lead, Dusknoir asks the player to touch a treasure that Bidoof made off with at Crystal Cave, in order to trigger a Dimensional Scream. Indeed, after touching it, the player sees a vision where Azelf is defeated at the hands of Grovyle. However, Chimecho is unsure - because the Dimensional Scream cannot tell the difference between past and future, Grovyle may have already made off with the Time Gear. Dusknoir remains confident that it is of the future, as the partner had never heard Azelf's name before Dusknoir had mentioned it. Because there is a chance that the Dimensional Scream is describing the future, the Guild decides to have all hands search the cave. The team arrives at the lake in the middle of the cave, where they find Azelf about to be defeated by Grovyle. However, just as Grovyle is about to steal the Time Gear, Azelf activates a fail-safe trap. The trap covers the lake in crystals, preventing Grovyle from going underwater and getting the Time Gear. This does not deter Grovyle, and the team is knocked unconscious and the partner is badly wounded. Before Grovyle can finish the partner off, Dusknoir appears. The team discovers that Dusknoir and Grovyle have been long acquainted, but before they can delve any further, Grovyle makes his getaway. Just then, the Guild finds the team, and cart them back to headquarters.

Some time later, the team reawaken back at headquarters. The partner recalls the exchange between Dusknoir and Grovyle, and the information is shared with the Guild and Azelf. Just then, the Guild's emergency alarm sounds, requiring everyone to be in attendance at a town meeting. In town, they find Dusknoir, who reminds everyone that Grovyle is still at large. Dusknoir further reveals that Grovyle is a Pokémon from the future - there, Grovyle was a criminal, who fled to the past to avoid being captured. He plots to steal the Time Gears, which in turn would freeze the world in time, thus causing the planet's paralysis. Water would not flow, the sun would not rise, the seasons would not change, and darkness would cover the world. When Corphish is curious as to why Dusknoir knows all of this, Dusknoir reveals that he, too, is from the future, sent back in time to capture Grovyle and bring him to justice. The Guild and townsfolk all agree to help Dusknoir stop Grovyle. Azelf has a plan to trap Grovyle - as the Time Gear in Crystal Lake still remains, they are certain that Grovyle will return for it. In order to lure Grovyle, the townsfolk spread a false rumor that the lake trio will try to seal the Time Gear away permanently, while the trio will be defending the Time Gear, awaiting the moment to make the jump on Grovyle. Although everyone wants to help, Dusknoir insists on doing so alone as to avoid suspicion.

Some days later, a report from Magnezone arrives, indicating that Grovyle has been captured, and that Dusknoir plans to take Grovyle back to the future to face justice. To do so, Dusknoir has opened a Dimensional Hole in the middle of town square. In town, the townsfolk find the Dimensional Hole, but no sign of Dusknoir. As the lake trio explain to the partner that the Time Gears were recovered and were returned, Dusknoir appears with Grovyle and two {{p|Sableye}} guards. As Grovyle is carted off into the Dimensional Hole, Dusknoir gives his farewell. But before he steps through the portal, he asks the player's team to step forward. When they do, he suddenly grabs the team and drags them into the portal. Before the townsfolk can give chase, the Dimensional Hole closes.

=== Escape From the Future ===
The player is woken up by the partner, who reveals that they have been locked in a cell. Just then, they encounter their guards - a group of Sableye. The Sableye blindfold them and take them to another room, where they find themselves bound to a pole, awaiting execution. Along with the two is Grovyle, also tied up. Dusknoir appears, giving the orders to the Sableye to execute the three. Grovyle convinces the team to cooperate - luring the Sableye to attack the ropes tying them to the stake may allow the three to escape. Fortunately, the ropes break free, and the three overwhelm the Sableye. This allows Grovyle to use a Luminous Orb, and take the team to safety. Back outside, Grovyle reveals that they are indeed in the future, but despite the Lake Trio saying the Time Gears were returned, the planet has been paralyzed.

Continuing to elude the Sableye, the partner loses confidence on whether they will ever return home. The player than proposes to the partner to catch up to the Grovyle, and see how he had traveled back to the past in the first place. They eventually catch up to Grovyle, and save him from the {{p|Spiritomb}} who had knocked him out earlier. Though Grovyle is reluctant to help them (because the partner still does not trust him), he proceeds to tell his side of the story. The world's paralysis dated back to the present day, with the collapse of the Temporal Tower, governed by {{p|Dialga}}, the legendary Pokémon that controls time. When the tower collapsed, Dialga lost control of time, and it too lost all control. Dialga has turned berserk, becoming Primal Dialga. Seeking only self-preservation, Primal Dialga tries to prevent history from changing, and hence its need to exterminate Grovyle and the team. The partner is visibly shocked by this revelation - and even more so when Grovyle reveals that he collected the Time Gears to prevent the tower from collapsing. Grovyle continues, claiming that the time stop by the removal of the Time Gears is merely temporary - the area affected would restart once the gears were placed in Temporal Tower. Grovyle then further revealed that Dusknoir is an agent of Primal Dialga sent to stop him and the team, and had everyone in the past played for fools.

Though the partner does not believe Grovyle, the player believes that Grovyle's assertions are reasonable, and that the partner cannot seem to accept the truth. Grovyle leaves to find {{p|Celebi}}, the time-traveling Pokémon, to start his mission anew. Although the player is determined to follow Grovyle, the partner is more reluctant. Nevertheless, the partner agrees to follow, if only to find a way to return to the present. The group eventually manages to find Celebi, who finds some interest in the player. Celebi leads the group to the Passage of Time - a secret corridor spanning multiple dimensions. However, before they can go through the passage, they are stopped by Dusknoir and the Sableye, who had caught up to them. Surrounded, the group has no choice but to overpower Dusknoir and the Sableye. However, when Primal Dialga appears, Grovyle, believing that they are outmatched, has no choice but to surrender. He contends that at least hope will remain, for he had not time travelled alone before. When he first traveled back to the past, he and his partner had been separated. Dusknoir, however, believes otherwise, and forces Grovyle to tell the name of his partner - the player. The partner is surprised at this revelation - and Grovyle and Celebi are even more surprised that the player is standing with them. Grovyle refuses to believe that the player has been turned into a Pokémon, but Dusknoir had planned to eliminate the player and Grovyle, and had merely befriended the team and the Guild so as to destroy them all in one shot.

The partner is shocked by the revelation, partly because at one point he had idolized Dusknoir, and partly from sticking with the player. The partner has a plan to elude the Dusknoir and Sableye - all that is needed is to have Celebi teleport them closer to the Passage. Although Celebi recognizes that Dialga could detect them, Celebi agrees to the partner's idea. They fail to escape Dusknoir, but they get to the Passage. Celebi implores the rest of the group to leave though the Passage, leaving Dusknoir to herself. Celebi manages to elude capture as the group returns back to the present.

=== Racing the Clock ===
Arriving back to the present, the partner explains that the beach that they are in was where the player was first found. However, before the partner can lead Grovyle back to the Guild to plan their next move, he reminds them that in the present time, Grovyle is a criminal. The partner, seeing the complications this may cause, instead takes the player and Grovyle to a cliff known as Sharpedo Bluff (named as the cliff is in the shape of a {{p|Sharpedo}}), which was the home of the partner prior to joining the Guild. That night, Grovyle explains to the partner the common history between himself and the player. The player and Grovyle had been a formidable team investigating the planet's paralysis. The player had the ability to perform the Dimensional Scream, but only in the presence of a trusted partner. Grovyle further explains that the Dimensional Scream is set off by triggers tied to places where Time Gears were hidden. The partner realizes that the player had a lot of trust in them, largely due to having witnessed the Dimensional Scream. However, the partner also realizes that perhaps Dimensional Screams had worked differently in the past, as the player had experienced them in incidents unrelated to Time Gears. In any event, the three quickly agree to plot a new plan to take the Time Gears.
Later, the partner shares his story of the Relic Fragment with Grovyle. Grovyle and the partner agree that the player has a connection to the both of them - the player had made each of them stronger. The trio redoubles their efforts to retake the Time Gears, starting with the one in Treeshroud Forest, where Grovyle had found the one unguarded. However, after arriving there, they find that, despite the presence of the Time Gear, time has stopped - a sign that Temporal Tower is starting to collapse.

That night, back at Sharpedo Bluff, the partner reveals, after a fact-finding mission, that time in other places is also stopped, despite the return of the Time Gears. It appears that the only way to restore time is to take the Time Gears to Temporal Tower. This is easier said than done, though; the Tower is located in the Hidden Land, and no one knows where the Hidden Land is. Desperate, and running out of options and time, the player convinces the partner to return back to the Guild. The Guild is surprised to find that the team has returned, but is more surprised when the team reveals their story. The Guild, though shocked at the revelations brought forth by the team, agrees to help retrieve the Time Gears, and tells the lake trio to allow Grovyle to reclaim the ones they guard. The team is recommended by Wigglytuff to see {{p|Torkoal}}, the town elder, for advice on finding the Hidden Land. At the hot springs, Torkoal reveals that the Hidden Land is a place beyond the oceans, but also a place which only appears to those with sufficient "proof". However, Torkoal does not recall what is needed for such "proof". The next day, however, Torkoal arrives at the Guild Hall with one new recollection - the "proof" is an inscription of a certain pattern - the same pattern found in the Relic Fragment. What is more surprising is that that Wigglytuff and Chatot has also seen the same pattern - found in a distant place called Brine Cave, where bandits had scared the two in an earlier adventure. Nevertheless, the Guild decides to make an expedition to Brine Cave. Meanwhile, the team hears word that Grovyle has taken all the Time Gears, but warns that Dusknoir may also return from the future to hunt them down.

The next day, The Guild (without Wiggytuff) arrives at Brine Cave, where they split up to reach the innermost part, with Chatot following the team. However, partway into the cave, they are ambushed by Team Skull, who steal the Relic Fragment. Though Chatot gives chase and manages to catch them, by the time the team manages to catch up, they find both Team Skull and Chatot severely wounded, due to themselves having been ambushed by {{p|Omastar}} and {{p|Kabutops}}. After dispatching them, the team tend to Chatot. Just then, Wigglytuff and Grovyle arrive, with the rest of the Guild in tow. Wigglytuff is particularly concerned, as Chatot had been severely injured by the Omastar and Kabutops protecting Wigglytuff in their last trip to Brine Cave. Urging the team and Grovyle to continue, the Guild return home to tend to Chatot's wounds. Further in, the team discovers a rock wall pointing out to sea, on which is a wall pattern similar to the one found on the Relic Fragment. When the Relic Fragment is presented, a light shines out towards the sea. Just then, a {{p|Lapras}} arrives. At the same time, back at the Guild, Wigglytuff explains to the Guild the story of how they had previously encountered the pattern on the Relic Fragment: Chatot had been injured by Omastar and Kabutops in protecting Wigglytuff. Though Wigglytuff had fended off the Omastar and Kabutops, he had felt helpless because he could not help Chatot. Just then, Lapras had appeared to help Chatot, on the condition that they not explore the wall pattern further. Back with the team, Lapras, while ferrying the team and Grovyle, explains that she is the gatekeeper to the Hidden Land, a land that exists in a different dimension - within a moment of time. The Hidden Land is as such because Dialga had feared that interference by exploration teams or bad Pokémon could affect the flow of time. Dialga had, however, left one key to entering the Hidden Land, within the Relic Fragment. Wigglytuff had known this, and had realized that the promise to Lapras could not be kept in the interests of saving the world, and thus had set off towards Brine Cave ahead of the Guild to find Lapras. Lapras explained to Wigglytuff then that the Relic Fragment chooses who may visit the Hidden Land, and it had chosen the partner due to the partner's purity of heart. Now, it lies upon the team to explore the land and save the world.

=== Saving the World ===
Arriving at the Hidden Land, Lapras tells them that in order to reach the Temporal Tower, they must take the Rainbow Stoneship, located inside an old ruin. Finding the ruin, the partner is astounded at what they can find - pictures of legendary Pokémon {{p|Mew}}, {{p|Kyogre}}, {{p|Groudon}}, Dialga, and {{p|Palkia}} engraved on the wall. Proceeding further, they find a temple where, at the top, they find the Ruin Fragment pattern. The team discovers that the temple itself is the Rainbow Stoneship, and in order for the ship to operate, the Relic Fragment must be slotted in one of the indentations. But before the partner can do so, they are captured by Dusknoir and the Sableye entourage. Dusknoir takes their captives to a nearby Dimensional Hole, but before the team can be put through it, they overwhelm the Sableye, prompting Dusknoir to fight back. The team is able to defeat Dusknoir in battle, but while the partner goes to activate the Rainbow Stoneship, Dusknoir warns that should they succeed in their quest, the Pokémon of the future, including the player and Grovyle, will be erased from existence, from being from a future that will no longer exist. Grovyle admits that this is the case, but that their sacrifice is worth the trouble if it means that the future can be saved. The player accepts this fate, even though the player knows that the partner will not take it as easily as the player or Grovyle.

Meanwhile, the partner succeeds in activating the Rainbow Stoneship, but Dusknoir manages to recover and attack the player before either the player or Grovyle is on board. Just as Dusknoir tries to finish off the player, Grovyle intervenes. In a move of desperation, Grovyle pushes Dusknoir towards the Dimensional Hole, hoping that in his own sacrifice, Grovyle will erase Dusknoir from existence. Dropping the Time Gears, Grovyle pushes Dusknoir and himself through the Dimensional Hole, but not without giving his last goodbye. The partner recovers the Time Gears, and the team proceed on the Rainbow Stoneship, with the player keeping silent to the partner about his/her fate. With a heavy heart, the team head towards Temporal Tower to take on their final mission.

Arriving at the top of Temporal Tower as the tower itself is collapsing, they find a mystical relic with five indentations. Before the partner slots in the Time Gears into the indentations, the team is attacked by none other than Primal Dialga, having just gone berserk. Realizing that there is no reasoning with Primal Dialga, the team prepare to battle it out to the end. After a long battle, Primal Dialga is defeated, and the partner takes the opportunity to install the Time Gears. The earthquakes destroying the tower eventually stop, and Dialga is restored back to normal. Dialga quickly uses its powers to restore the world back to normal, though Temporal Tower remains heavily damaged. Dialga explains that the world's paralysis has been prevented with the installation of the Time Gears, and that peace has been restored. Dialga says its thanks to the team, but also warns that the world can only be back to normal in time. Dialga shows the team out of the Temporal Tower, where the Stoneship and Lapras are awaiting them for their ride home.

On the way back, the player feels the effects of being slowly erased from existence. The partner notices this, and wonders what is wrong. The player says his/her goodbyes, regretting that the partner was kept in the dark on the player's situation. The player slowly fades out of existence as the partner makes their tearful goodbye. The partner returns home, crying, but knowing that the player has made the partner stronger. Back home, the partner tells the townsfolk and the guild everything - how they had traveled across the Hidden Land, how Grovyle and the player had sacrificed themselves, and how they had saved the world.

Months have passed since the incident. The damages from time have slowly been healed, and life has returned to normal for most... but not for the partner, still mourning over the player's death. At the beach, the partner is taking a walk, when the partner is reminded of the player and their adventures together, and how now the player is gone - erased from existence. The end credits roll at this point.

After the credits, Dialga feels the partner's sorrow in the distance. Using its powers, Dialga brings the player back to life, as thanks for bringing it back in control. The player reappears at the beach, where the partner and Bidoof are crying, overjoyed to find the player alive.

=== Post-game story ===
As with ''Blue Rescue Team'' and ''Red Rescue Team'', there is a post-credits story. Several months after the player was brought back, {{p|Wigglytuff}} decides that the team is ready for an exam to qualify for graduation from the guild (apparently only accepting one team a year). They are told to go find the treasure found in Luminous Spring, a place where Pokémon used to go to to evolve, but are also warned to avoid the "grand master of all things bad" who lives there with his minions. Although {{p|Loudred}} is not allowed to speak of the test, having taken it the year before, {{p|Ursaring}} and {{p|Teddiursa}}, two Treasure Town locals, claim of going to the springs before and meeting no such "Grand Master". Upon reaching the springs they run into Ursaring and Teddiursa and conclude that the "Grand Master" does not exist before falling into the lair of the "Grand Master", who turns out to be nothing more than Wigglytuff and the guild members (revealed by a slip up by Bidoof, who continues to deny it till the end). After finding the treasure they return and graduate, finding that the only benefit to be that they can explore on their own and change the group leader, but they still have to give most of their prize money to the guild. Having graduated, the team move their headquarters to Sharpedo Bluff.

Then, {{p|Mr. Mime}} appears in Treasure Town stating the famous explorer {{p|Scizor}} has been missing in a place called the Blizzard Island. The team pays a visit and finds Scizor frozen solid by {{p|Froslass}}. After they rescue Scizor, Scizor gives the team the 'Secret Rank' which the team and everyone else knows nothing about. This rank is used for the 7 dungeons home to the great [[Seven Treasures]].

One day, the player finds Corphish at the guild's intersection, saying to go talk to Sunflora about something. When Sunflora is found on the lower level, she says that there is a land that has recently become possible to enter. This dungeon is called the Surrounded Sea, supposedly home to hundreds of rare treasures brought by the currents that run through it. At the end of Surrounded Sea, there are three Deluxe Boxes and a Wonder Egg, along with a warp tile that will get the player out of the dungeon. The next morning, the egg hatches into a {{p|Manaphy}}. The team goes to see Chatot, who says that Manaphy are extremely rare. This makes the team take extra good care of it. A day later, the team takes Manaphy for a walk by the beach, which makes baby Manaphy incredibly happy. That night, however, when the team is asleep, Manaphy stays up and longingly stares out at the sea, eventually resorting to go to the shore. When the team finds Manaphy missing in the morning, they run around in a panic, trying to find it. They finally find it at the beach, where it suddenly keels over in the sand. Once the team reports to Chatot, the bird says that Manaphy are really supposed to grow in the ocean. However, Manaphy's current ailment could only be cured by the Phione Dew, located in Miracle Sea. At the end of the dungeon, there are six Phione, who are driven away suddenly by an enraged, treasure-seeking Gyarados. After defeating Gyarados, he runs away, and in their thanks, the Phione gives the player the Phione Dew. After Manaphy is cured after a few days of rest, a Pokémon named {{p|Walrein}} is told by Chatot to take care of Manaphy under the sea. With a tearful farewell, Manaphy is taken to its home.

After the player saves Manaphy and after a couple of days of plain jobs, Team Charm pays a visit to the guild. Team Charm consists of {{p|Lopunny}}, {{p|Medicham}}, and {{p|Gardevoir}}. This trio is legendary for their rank, which is the Master Rank, and for their style of treasure hunting. A former member, surprisingly, is Wigglytuff. They came because they're stuck on a hunt for treasure because they don't have a key. They ask Wigglytuff and Wigglytuff "claims" that he doesn't have it. But just before everyone thinks Team Charm will leave, Lopunny gives Wigglytuff a Perfect Apple and Wigglytuff finds the key with a big bang from his room. When Team Charm is leaving, everyone asks if they can go to the [[Aegis Cave]], including the team. Lopunny, the leader of Team Charm, agrees and says everyone can go after they open it with the key. The treasure of Aegis Cave is guarded by 3 legendary beings, {{p|Regice}}, {{p|Regirock}}, and {{p|Registeel}}. After defeating them, Team Charm assists the player in fighting {{p|Regigigas}}.

Later, {{p|Darkrai}} (disguised as {{p|Cresselia}}) appears in the player's dreams and tells the player that their continued existence is causing a distortion in space. On the night before going to Palkia for an explanation, Palkia itself attacks the team, spiriting them away to it's domain, the [[Spacial Rift]]. They battle Palkia for answers, but it gets trapped in a nightmare. Darkrai (still disguised as Cresseila) tries to finish off the team using Palkia, but it is stopped by another Cresselia, who reveals that the first was an impostor by the name of Darkrai, who reveals itself to be the one distorting space. Although Darkrai invites the team to stop him, Cresselia thinks it is a trap, because normally Darkrai run away when found, doing its work in the shadows and only coming out to finish the job. The team decides to heed Darkrai's call, and Darkrai reveals his plans, by stopping time or space, the world would stop and be covered in darkness, and all Pokémon would share an everlasting nightmare, in which Darkrai would rule. In addition to this, Darkrai also reveals that he had been responsible from everything right from the beginning, from the collapse of the Temporal Tower to the player's very own transformation and memory loss. Darkrai lets the team decide if they want to join him ruling the world in darkness. The player's partner decides that it's useless to resist, so he/she decides to join Darkrai, but it's not real. The player realizes this is just another illusion, and breaks free of it. With the partner back on the player's side, the team battles Darkrai and wins. Darkrai attempts to flee through a portal, but Palkia arrives and attempts to stop Darkrai from leaving by unleashing an attack on him. But instead of destroying him, he attacks the Dimensional Hole, thus erasing Darkrai's memories, much like what happened to the player. Darkrai has no more memory of his evil ambitions, and wanders the Pokémon world; his location is at that point unknown.

After Darkrai is gone, Team Raider, legendary Master Rank team, shows up on the beach after rescuing Dugtrio. It is unknown if they do anything.

Manaphy returns and joins the player's team. three days later, he tells the team about the Marine Resort and then after the team unlocks it, the player and partner can finally evolve; after recruiting Palkia in the Spacial Rift.

==Characters==
===Playable characters===
{| {{bluetable2|lightgraybg c}}
! rowspan="2" | Pokémon
! colspan="2" | Nature/Personality
!{{Tt|Description|By Pokemon.com}}
|-
| Male || Female
|-
! {{p|Bulbasaur}}
| Lonely || Docile || Bulbasaur's {{a|Overgrow}} Ability powers up Grass-type moves when it's weakened.
|-
! {{p|Charmander}}
| Docile || Brave || This starter Pokémon wears its emotions on its tail–the flame on its tail, that is!
|-
! {{p|Squirtle}}
| Quirky || Bold || With its Water Terrain ability, Squirtle can lead you across rivers and lakes!
|-
! {{p|Pikachu}}
| Brave || Hasty || Pikachu is one of the starters you can choose from! We wonder if its ability, {{a|Static}}, will come in to play?
|-
! {{p|Meowth}}*
| Sassy || Relaxed || If Meowth sees something shiny, its eyes sparkle like jewels!
|-
! {{p|Chikorita}}
| Calm || Quiet || Grass-type Pokémon like Chikorita can be found in forests.
|-
! {{p|Cyndaquil}}
| Timid || Calm || Cyndaquil delivers a warm reception when it's angered or startled–its back erupts with fire!
|-
! {{p|Totodile}}
| Jolly || Sassy || Even its friends need to be careful of Totodile–it has a habit of biting anything with its developed jaws.
|-
! {{p|Treecko}}
| Quiet || Hardy || After you battle in the [[Explorer Maze]], Treecko shows up to request a job.
|-
! {{p|Torchic}}
| Hardy || Rash || Those who hug Torchic get an extra warm feeling because a fire burns inside its body!
|-
! {{p|Mudkip}}
| Rash || Lonely || Skilled in Water-type moves, Mudkip checks its surroundings using the fin on its head.
|-
! {{p|Skitty}}*
| Hasty || Naïve || Skitty is so adorable that its {{a|Cute Charm}} Ability can even infatuate its foes.
|-
! {{p|Turtwig}}
| Bold || Timid || Turtwig is a Grass-type Pokémon. Will it be powerful in grassy areas?
|-
! {{p|Chimchar}}
| Naïve || Impish || Using Fire-type moves with Chimchar will definitely help you out in a pinch.
|-
! {{p|Piplup}}
| Impish || Quirky || Piplup is friendly and enthusiastic. It will make a great Pokémon adventurer!
|-
! {{p|Munchlax}}*
| Relaxed || Jolly || Let's hope Munchlax's hunger doesn't stop it from being a great adventurer.
|-
|}

Notes:
* <nowiki>*</nowiki>: These Pokémon may not be selected as a partner.

===Non-player characters===
''This section is based on pre-release screenshots and is not complete.''
====Guild====
[[Image:Wigglytuff.jpg|thumb|right|Wigglytuff and Chatot]]
* {{p|Wigglytuff}} - Leader of the Wigglytuff Guild.
* {{p|Chatot}} - Wigglytuff's apprentice, whom assigns jobs to the guild as a whole on a daily basis, as well as taking charge when Wigglytuff dozes off.
* {{p|Loudred}} {{Tt|Description|By Pokemon.com}} - This Pokémon guards the guild entrance gate. Don't mess with Loudred.
* {{p|Diglett}} {{Tt|Description|By Pokemon.com}} - Diglett assists Loudred by identifying visitors by examining their footprints.
* {{p|Dugtrio}} {{Tt|Description|By Pokemon.com}} - Calm and trustworthy, Dugtrio keeps the bulletin board current with the latest jobs.
* {{p|Chimecho}} {{Tt|Description|By Pokemon.com}} - Chimecho runs the Chimecho Center and summons guild members when it's time to eat.
* {{p|Croagunk}} - Runs the guild's swap shop.
* {{p|Sunflora}} {{Tt|Description|By Pokemon.com}} - Feeling sad? Sunflora's sunny disposition is sure to cheer you up! She also keeps a journal at her bedside.
* {{p|Corphish}} {{Tt|Description|By Pokemon.com}} - This high-spirited Pokémon will take to you like a big brother!
* {{p|Bidoof}} - The previous newest guild member, prior to your arrival. He keeps a journal at his bedside.

===Treasure Town===
* {{p|Kangaskhan}} - As in Mystery Dungeon 1, she will store items for the player.
* {{p|Xatu}} {{Tt|Description|By Pokemon.com}} - Xatu will tell you what's in your Treasure Box–for a price.
* {{p|Kecleon}} - Runs two shops, one for consumables, one for orbs and TMs.
* {{p|Duskull}} - Operates the Duskull Bank, where the player can store their extra cash.
* {{p|Electivire}} - Will link moves and allow the player to relearn forgotten moves.
* {{p|Chansey}} {{Tt|Description|By Pokemon.com}} - Chansey runs the Day Care, and its happy to take care of your egg until it hatches!
* {{p|Marowak}} {{Tt|Description|By Pokemon.com}} - Marowak runs the dojo where you can train and improve your battle skills.
* {{p|Magnezone}} {{Tt|Description|By Pokemon.com}} - When you capture Pokémon fugitives, deliver them to Magnezone, the town sheriff.

====Expedition Teams====
* Team Razor Wind
** {{p|Zangoose}}
** {{p|Scyther}}
** {{p|Sandslash}}
* Team Seedgey
** {{p|Pidgey}}
** {{p|Seedot}}
* Team Glee
** {{p|Togepi}}
** {{p|Politoed}}
** {{p|Ledyba}}
* Team Skull
** {{p|Skuntank}}
** {{p|Koffing}}
** {{p|Zubat}}
* Team Charm
** {{p|Lopunny}}
** {{p|Gardevoir}}
** {{p|Medicham}}
* Team Tasty
** {{p|Swellow}}
** {{p|Wurmple}}
* Team Poochy
** {{p|Poochyena}} ×3
* Team Ebony
** {{p|Shuppet}}
** {{p|Murkrow}}
* Team Slacker
** {{p|Slakoth}}
** {{p|Slowpoke}}
* Team Flame
** {{p|Camerupt}}
** {{p|Ponyta}}
** {{p|Bellsprout}}
* Team AWD
** {{p|Arbok}}
** {{p|Weavile}}
** {{p|Drapion}}
* Team Raider
** {{p|Gallade}}
** {{p|Roserade}}
** {{p|Rhyperior}}

===Bosses===
While most of the Bosses in this game are the standard legendaries, there are some average Pokémon added to the mix. The list of boss battles are in dungeon order.

====Story Mode Bosses====
* {{p|Zubat}} and {{p|Koffing}}
* {{p|Drowzee}} {{Tt|Description|By Pokemon.com}} Drowzee pretends to be a helpful Pokémon, offering assistance when Azurill and Marill lose something important.
* {{p|Groudon}} (Fake) {{Tt|Description|By Pokemon.com}} - Strong enough to lift an entire terrain, Groudon won't be happy if it's disturbed!
* {{p|Luxio}} (8) and {{p|Luxray}}
* {{p|Mesprit}} (fight it again after beating the game to recruit it)
* {{p|Grovyle}}
* {{p|Spiritomb}}
* {{p|Kabutops}} and {{p|Omastar}} (2)
* {{p|Dusknoir}} and {{p|Sableye}} (6) {{Tt|Description|By Pokemon.com, for Dusknoir}} This Pokémon is a bit mysterious. Does it have something to hide?
* [[Primal Dialga]]
=====After the credits=====
* {{p|Uxie}} {{Tt|Description|By Pokemon.com}} - This [[Legendary Pokémon]] might have something to do with your past--but why can't you remember?
* {{p|Mesprit}}
* {{p|Azelf}}
* {{p|Dialga}} (regular)
* Wigglytuff Guild
* {{p|Froslass}}
* {{p|Gyarados}}
* {{p|Regice}}
* {{p|Regirock}}
* {{p|Registeel}}
* {{p|Regigigas}}, {{p|Hitmonlee}} (4), and {{p|Bronzong}} (4)
* {{p|Palkia}}
* {{p|Darkrai}}

====Wonder Mail Exclusives====
Like the previous Mystery Dungeon game, some dungeons are unlocked through Wonder Mail codes. However, unlike the previous game, the bosses below are obtained through these codes.

=====Known Codes=====
* {{p|Kyogre}} ('''FN01 HWN- 00%F 8678 +XY@ &%#3''')
* {{p|Groudon}} (Real) ('''#&S6 NY2& YJN= 1P57 F0MN MH7Y''')
* {{p|Articuno}} ('''4MP= K98# CT%Y R@-- &P7% %K86''')
* {{p|Heatran}} ('''FH0T HYNH R0QF 86N8 +SY@ &%YN''')
* {{p|Giratina}} ('''WNWY JXTK &5C1 4N3- P4NM 8K&C''')
* {{p|Rayquaza}} ('''HW+8 66%T 5S51 +J5Y 4-K# H@P-''')
* {{p|Mew}} ('''X%8S WYY+ S-JF PFH@ @##K 5W8K''')
* {{p|Gabite}}* ('''78SR -H2M P0+4 Y6FY 1&Y+ #R9S''')
<nowiki>*</nowiki>:Gabite is unable to be recruited.

=====Code Exclusive Recruits=====
The following Pokemon can be found only in the domains of the Guardians of the Seven Treasures (A.K.A. the dungeons of the above codes)

'''Shimmer Desert''' (Groudon's Domain)
* {{p|Ekans}}
* {{p|Arbok}}
* {{p|Diglett}}
* {{p|Dugtrio}}

'''Sky Stairway''' (Rayquaza's Domain)
* {{p|Gastly}}
* {{p|Haunter}}
* {{p|Gengar}}
* {{p|Ditto}}

'''Mystery Jungle''' (Mew's Domain)
* {{p|Treecko}}*
* {{p|Grovyle}}*
* {{p|Sceptile}}*
* {{p|Lopunny}}
<nowiki>*</nowiki>: Treecko can be chosen as Starter or Partner

====Item Required Bosses====
Some bosses will need the leader to hold either the [[Mystery Part]] or the [[Secret Slab]] while traversing certain dungeons.

* {{p|Zapdos}}
* {{p|Mewtwo}}
* {{p|Raikou}}
* {{p|Entei}}
* {{p|Suicune}}
* {{p|Lugia}}
* {{p|Ho-Oh}}
* {{p|Celebi}}
* {{p|Latias}}
* {{p|Latios}}
* {{p|Jirachi}}
* {{p|Deoxys}}
* {{p|Darkrai}}
===Miscellaneous NPCs===
* {{p|Krabby}}
* {{p|Grovyle}} {{Tt|Description|By Pokemon.com}} - Who is Grovyle, and why is it hunting Time Gears?
* {{p|Vigoroth}} - Advertises the newest shops that open in Treasure Town.
* {{p|Spoink}} {{Tt|Description|By Pokemon.com}} Spoink always has a spring in its step--until it loses its treasured pearl. Can you help?
* {{p|Marill}} {{Tt|Description|By Pokemon.com}} Marill and his younger brother, Azurill, shop in Treasure Town. They might be looking for their Water Float.
* {{p|Azurill}} {{Tt|Description|By Pokemon.com}} Azurill and his older brother, Marill, shop in Treasure Town. They might be looking for their Water Float.
* Lt. {{p|Magnezone}} {{Tt|Description|By Pokemon.com}} When you capture Pokémon fugitives, deliver them to Magnezone, the local sheriff.
* {{p|Shinx}}
* Celebi ({{shiny2}}) - A close friend of Grovyle in the future, and helps him to travel through time.
* {{p|Lapras}} - Does it know the secret of the Hidden Land?
* {{p|Torkoal}} - A very wise elder.
* {{p|Scizor}} - A legendary explorer until he disappeared while searching for a valuable treasure...
* {{p|Cresselia}} - She has been hunting Darkrai for years. Will she finally catch Darkrai?
* {{p|Manaphy}} - Manaphy has hatched from a mysterious egg. Who is Manaphy?
* {{p|Phione}} - Phione are known for producing a dew that can act as a cure-all...

==Version-exclusive Pokémon==
Certain Pokémon are only in certain versions. However, if you unlock an exclusive Pokémon that is not from your version through Wonder Mail, they will be in the same place they would be in the game they were originaly exclusive to.

===Exclusive to Darkness===
*{{p|Beedrill}}
*{{p|Mewtwo}}
* {{p|Burmy}}*
* {{p|Buneary}}
* {{p|Rotom}}
<nowiki>*</nowiki>: {{p|Wormadam}} and {{p|Mothim}} are found in Time.

===Exclusive to Time===
* {{p|Celebi}}
* {{p|Combee}}*
* {{p|Pachirisu}}
* {{p|Riolu}}
* {{p|Lucario}}
<nowiki>*</nowiki>: {{p|Vespiquen}} is found in Darkness.

==Dungeon Tips==
*If the player remains on one floor of a dungeon for too long, this will happen:
**It will say "Something is stirring".
**It will say "Something is approaching".
**It will say "It's coming closer."
**It will say "It's right near! It's gusting hard!" Then the player's character will faint.
*Pokémon with the Float terrain ability who try to cross magma will get burned (unless they have the "All-Terrain Hiker" IQ skill or are also {{type2|Fire}}).
*Fully evolved Pokémon can be recruited in the game. However, they will have lower recruit rates.
==Trivia==
*This is the third game to feature the player having to delete the saved data before starting a new game, with the first two being [[Pokémon Mystery Dungeon]] and [[Pokémon Diamond and Pearl Versions]].
*This is the second game to feature a {{shiny2}} Pokémon as part of the main storyline, with the first being the [[Generation II]] main series.
*This game is more focused on every Pokémon's gender (even the legendaries, who are believed not to have a gender). In the previous Mystery Dungeon games, only the main character had a confirmed gender, but only because it was asked at the start.

==External links==
* Bulbanews: [[n:CoroCoro reveals Mystery Dungeon sequel details|CoroCoro reveals Mystery Dungeon sequel details]]
* [http://www.pokemon.co.jp/special/dungeon/ Official website]
* [http://www.chunsoft.co.jp/games/pokedun2/index.html Pokémon Mystery Dungeon 2 page on Chunsoft website]
* [http://www.serebii.net/dungeon2/ Serebii.net: Pokémon Mystery Dungeon 2]
* [http://www.pokemon.com/#dungeon2_main|Pokemon USA Mini-Site]
* [http://www.pokemon-games.com/pokemonmd/ Official USA Site]
*[http://pokemon.marriland.com/mystery_dungeon_time_darkness/videos Japanese Sneak Peek Video]
*[http://www.gamestop.com/Catalog/ProductDetails.aspx?Product%5FID=69169 English Sneak Peek Video]
*[http://www.pokemon.com/dungeon2/personality_test/ Pokemon.com Official Personality Test]
{{Side series}}
[[Category:Games]]
[[Category:Pokémon Mystery Dungeon|*]]
[[Category:DS games]]

[[de:Pokémon Mystery Dungeon 2]]

[[fr:Pokémon Donjon Mystère 2]]
[[ja:ポケモン不思議のダンジョン時の探検隊・闇の探検隊]]

Nature

2008-10-06T16:19:16Z

Monblazon: corrected parenthesis

'''Natures''' are the Pokémon analogue of personalities. They were introduced by the [[Generation III]] games and remain a game mechanic in [[Generation IV]]. Each Pokémon in these games has one of 25 natures, as listed and described in the table below. A Pokémon's nature usually affects the growth rate of two of its stats, ultimately increasing one of its [[stats]] by 10% and decreasing another of its stats by 10%. Five of the possible natures, however, have no effect on the Pokémon's stat growth. (Note that despite these relationships to a Pokémon's development, natures do not affect [[experience]] or [[Individual values|DVs]].) Natures also determine the Pokémon's favorite flavor of food and which flavor it dislikes. The exception is again the five previously mentioned "neutral" natures, which cause a Pokémon to not like or dislike any flavor. From {{v2|Emerald}} onwards, a {{p|Ditto}} or a female Pokémon that holds an {{evostone|Everstone}} has a 50% chance of passing its nature to its offspring when at the Pokémon daycare. Natures also depend on the way the Pokémon battle by themselves at the [[Battle Palace]], different natures make the Pokémon use different methods of attacks and change tactics when they're low on health. Also, the five non-increasing/decreasing natures have different battle styles at the Battle Palace. A man in a house closest to the [[Sunyshore City]] Heritage Site asks to see [[Pokémon]] with different natures - naïve, serious and quirky - and will give the [[player character|player]] three [[Pokétch]] applications.

The following table lists each nature and its effect on a Pokémon; it may be rearranged by clicking the boxes next to each column's heading.

{| {{bluetable2|c sortable}}
|-
! #
! Nature
! Japanese
! Increased stat
! Decreased stat
! Favorite flavor
! Disliked flavor
|-
! 0
! Hardy
| がんばりや
| —
| —
| —
| —
|-
! 1
! Lonely
| さみしがり
| Attack
| Defense
| Spicy
| Sour
|-
! 2
! Brave
| ゆうかん
| Attack
| Speed
| Spicy
| Sweet
|-
! 3
! Adamant
| いじっぱり
| Attack
| Sp. Attack
| Spicy
| Dry
|-
! 4
! Naughty
| やんちゃ
| Attack
| Sp. Defense
| Spicy
| Bitter
|-
! 5
! Bold
| ずぶとい
| Defense
| Attack
| Sour
| Spicy
|-
! 6
! Docile
| すなお
| —
| —
| —
| —
|-
! 7
! Relaxed
| のんき
| Defense
| Speed
| Sour
| Sweet
|-
! 8
! Impish
| わんぱく
| Defense
| Sp. Attack
| Sour
| Dry
|-
! 9
! Lax
| のうてんき
| Defense
| Sp. Defense
| Sour
| Bitter
|-
! 10
! Timid
| おくびょう
| Speed
| Attack
| Sweet
| Spicy
|-
! 11
! Hasty
| せっかち
| Speed
| Defense
| Sweet
| Sour
|-
! 12
! Serious
| まじめ
| —
| —
| —
| —
|-
! 13
! Jolly
| ようき
| Speed
| Sp. Attack
| Sweet
| Dry
|-
! 14
! Naïve
| むじゃき
| Speed
| Sp. Defense
| Sweet
| Bitter
|-
! 15
! Modest
| ひかえめ
| Sp. Attack
| Attack
| Dry
| Spicy
|-
! 16
! Mild
| おっとり
| Sp. Attack
| Defense
| Dry
| Sour
|-
! 17
! Quiet
| れいせい
| Sp. Attack
| Speed
| Dry
| Sweet
|-
! 18
! Bashful
| てれや
| —
| —
| —
| —
|-
! 19
! Rash
| うっかりや
| Sp. Attack
| Sp. Defense
| Dry
| Bitter
|-
! 20
! Calm
| おだやか
| Sp. Defense
| Attack
| Bitter
| Spicy
|-
! 21
! Gentle
| おとなしい
| Sp. Defense
| Defense
| Bitter
| Sour
|-
! 22
! Sassy
| なまいき
| Sp. Defense
| Speed
| Bitter
| Sweet
|-
! 23
! Careful
| しんちょう
| Sp. Defense
| Sp. Attack
| Bitter
| Dry
|-
! 24
! Quirky
| きまぐれ
| —
| —
| —
| —
|}

== Battle Style ==
Depending on a Pokémon's nature, its battle style changes in the Battle Palace or the Battle Tent of Verdanturf Town. Though this does not affect its battling outside of those areas. Explaining the symbols, the '+' means the Pokémon prefers to do the specified action, while the '-' means that the Pokémon dislikes to do the specified action. This means that the Pokémon would sometimes use the action if it shows a '='. A double symbol for something would mean it greatly likes or dislikes to attack, defend, or use a support move. For instance, a Pokémon with a Hardy Nature would greatly like to attack, strongly dislike to defend, and may use some support moves. Whereas a Pokémon with a Modest Nature would use some attack moves, but be more defensive. It would probably not use any support moves though.
Changing is also a part of its battle style. If a Pokémon took a decent amount of damage, it would change its battle style in favor of the situation. For a Pokémon with a Quirky Nature, it wouldn't change though. But for a Pokémon with a Lonely Nature, it would change its attack style, most likely changing from (liking) support to (liking) attack moves.

The following table lists each nature and its effect on a Pokémon; it may be rearranged by clicking the boxes next to each column's heading.

{| {{bluetable2|c sortable}}
|-
! #
! Nature
! Japanese
! Attack
! Defense
! Support
! Change
|-
! 0
! Hardy
| がんばりや
| + +
| - -
| =
| Attack
|-
! 1
! Lonely
| さみしがり
| -
| =
| + +
| Attack
|-
! 2
! Brave
| ゆうかん
| + +
| - -
| - -
| Defense
|-
! 3
! Adamant
| いじっぱり
| =
| =
| =
| Attack
|-
! 4
! Naughty
| やんちゃ
| -
| + +
| - -
| Attack
|-
! 5
! Bold
| ずぶとい
| =
| -
| + +
| Defense
|-
! 6
! Docile
| すなお
| + +
| -
| -
| None
|-
! 7
! Relaxed
| のんき
| =
| - -
| + +
| Attack
|-
! 8
! Impish
| わんぱく
| + +
| - -
| =
| Defense
|-
! 9
! Lax
| のうてんき
| =
| - -
| + +
| Support
|-
! 10
! Timid
| おくびょう
| + +
| - -
| =
| Support
|-
! 11
! Hasty
| せっかち
| + +
| =
| - -
| Attack
|-
! 12
! Serious
| まじめ
| =
| - -
| + +
| None
|-
! 13
! Jolly
| ようき
| =
| - -
| + +
| Defense
|-
! 14
! Naïve
| むじゃき
| + +
| -
| -
| None
|-
! 15
! Modest
| ひかえめ
| =
| +
| -
| Defense
|-
! 16
! Mild
| おっとり
| +
| + +
| -
| Support
|-
! 17
! Quiet
| れいせい
| + +
| -
| -
| None
|-
! 18
! Bashful
| てれや
| =
| + +
| - -
| None
|-
! 19
! Rash
| うっかりや
| =
| - -
| + +
| Support
|-
! 20
! Calm
| おだやか
| +
| + +
| - -
| Defense
|-
! 21
! Gentle
| おとなしい
| -
| + +
| - -
| Attack
|-
! 22
! Sassy
| なまいき
| + +
| - -
| - -
| Support
|-
! 23
! Careful
| しんちょう
| +
| + +
| - -
| Support
|-
! 24
! Quirky
| きまぐれ
| + +
| -
| -
| None
|}

[[Category:Game mechanics]]

[[fr:Nature]]
[[ja:せいかく]]
[[pt:Personalidade Pokémon]]

Ground (type)

2008-10-06T15:19:32Z

Monblazon: /* Characteristics */ grammar correction

{{ElementalTypes}}
{{TypeNotice|Ground|じめん|Jimen}}
So far, there are only two notable Ground-type specialist trainers: [[Giovanni]] of [[Viridian City]] and [[Bertha]] of the [[Sinnoh]] [[Elite Four]].

==Statistical averages==

{{BaseStats|
HP=66 |
Attack=81 |
Defense=86 |
SpAtk=53 |
SpDef=58 |
Speed=54 }}

==Battle properties==
Ground-type moves:
*Are super effective against: {{t|Electric}}, {{t|Fire}}, {{t|Poison}}, {{t|Rock}}, {{t|Steel}}
*Are not very effective against: {{t|Bug}}, {{t|Grass}}
*Have no effect against: {{t|Flying}}
Ground-type Pokémon:
*Resist: {{t|Poison}}, {{t|Rock}}
*Are weak to: {{t|Ice}}, {{t|Grass}}, {{t|Water}}
*Have immunity to: {{t|Electric}}

==Characteristics==
Defensively, the Ground-type is mediocre. it is weak to Water, Grass and Ice-the other of the three key atacking types. It resists Poison, a rare offensive type, and Rock. It is Electrically immune, a great advantage due to the minitory of Pokémon resisting Electric-type moves that are not Electric-types them self, and the lack of a 1/4 resistance to Electric up to now.

Offensively, the Ground-type is one of the three most important attacking types, together with Ice and Fighting. It is the only type super-effective against Electric, and is super-effective against five types-together with Fighting, more than any other type in the game. It is also super-effective against the best defensive type-Steel. Grass and Bug-type do resist Ground, but many of them lose their Ground resistance due to part Poison-typing. The greatest disadvantage of the Ground-type is that it does not affect the very common Flying-type at all, nor Pokémon with the Levitate trait.

Quite expectedly, Ground combines very well with the Ice-type, as Ice covers Grass and Flying, while Ground covers Rock, Steel and Fire. Ground and Rock, such similar types, also work very well together, Rock covering Ice and Flying while Ground covers Steel; up to now, only Claydol, Flygon, Breloom and Torterra resist both Rock and Ground. Most Ground-type Pokémon are able to learn Rock-type moves, for that need. No Pokémon up to now resists Ice/Ground/Rock all together besides {{p|Bronzor}} and {{p|Bronzong}} with the Levitate trait, making Mamoswine a top-tier OU Pokémon by all opinions, a great step forward from [[RSE]]'s {{p|Piloswine}}.

In total, there are 48 Pokémon with the Ground-type.

==Pokémon==

===Pure Ground-type Pokémon===
{| {{Bluetable|background: white; margin: auto;}}
|- style="background: #ccf;"
! #
!
! Name
|-
|027
|[[Image:027MS.gif]]
|{{p|Sandshrew}}
|-
|028
|[[Image:028MS.gif]]
|{{p|Sandslash}}
|-
|050
|[[Image:050MS.gif]]
|{{p|Diglett}}
|-
|051
|[[Image:051MS.gif]]
|{{p|Dugtrio}}
|-
|104
|[[Image:104MS.gif]]
|{{p|Cubone}}
|-
|105
|[[Image:105MS.gif]]
|{{p|Marowak}}
|-
|231
|[[Image:231MS.gif]]
|{{p|Phanpy}}
|-
|232
|[[Image:232MS.gif]]
|{{p|Donphan}}
|-
|328
|[[Image:328MS.gif]]
|{{p|Trapinch}}
|-
|383
|[[Image:383MS.gif]]
|{{p|Groudon}}
|-
|449
|[[Image:449MS.png]]
|{{p|Hippopotas}}
|-
|450
|[[Image:450MS.png]]
|{{p|Hippowdon}}
|}

===Half Ground-type Pokémon===

''Primary Ground-type Pokémon''
{| {{Bluetable|background: white; margin: auto;}}
|- style="background: #ccf;"
! #
!
! Name
! Type 1
! Type 2
|-
|111
|[[Image:111MS.gif]]
|{{p|Rhyhorn}}
{{typetable|Ground}}
{{typetable|Rock}}
|-
|112
|[[Image:112MS.gif]]
|{{p|Rhydon}}
{{typetable|Ground}}
{{typetable|Rock}}
|-
|207
|[[Image:207MS.gif]]
|{{p|Gligar}}
{{typetable|Ground}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|329
|[[Image:329MS.gif]]
|{{p|Vibrava}}
{{typetable|Ground}}
{{typetable|Dragon}}
|-
|330
|[[Image:330MS.gif]]
|{{p|Flygon}}
{{typetable|Ground}}
{{typetable|Dragon}}
|-
|343
|[[Image:343MS.gif]]
|{{p|Baltoy}}
{{typetable|Ground}}
{{typetable|Psychic}}
|-
|344
|[[Image:344MS.gif]]
|{{p|Claydol}}
{{typetable|Ground}}
{{typetable|Psychic}}
|-
|464
|[[Image:464MS.png]]
|{{p|Rhyperior}}
{{typetable|Ground}}
{{typetable|Rock}}
|-
|472
|[[Image:472MS.png]]
|{{p|Gliscor}}
{{typetable|Ground}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|}

''Secondary Ground-type Pokémon''
{| {{Bluetable|background: white; margin: auto;}}
|- style="background: #ccf;"
! #
!
! Name
! Type 1
! Type 2
|-
|031
|[[Image:031MS.gif]]
|{{p|Nidoqueen}}
{{typetable|Poison}}
{{typetable|Ground}}
|-
|034
|[[Image:034MS.gif]]
|{{p|Nidoking}}
{{typetable|Poison}}
{{typetable|Ground}}
|-
|074
|[[Image:074MS.gif]]
|{{p|Geodude}}
{{typetable|Rock}}
{{typetable|Ground}}
|-
|075
|[[Image:075MS.gif]]
|{{p|Graveler}}
{{typetable|Rock}}
{{typetable|Ground}}
|-
|076
|[[Image:076MS.gif]]
|{{p|Golem}}
{{typetable|Rock}}
{{typetable|Ground}}
|-
|095
|[[Image:095MS.gif]]
|{{p|Onix}}
{{typetable|Rock}}
{{typetable|Ground}}
|-
|194
|[[Image:194MS.gif]]
|{{p|Wooper}}
{{typetable|Water}}
{{typetable|Ground}}
|-
|195
|[[Image:195MS.gif]]
|{{p|Quagsire}}
{{typetable|Water}}
{{typetable|Ground}}
|-
|208
|[[Image:208MS.gif]]
|{{p|Steelix}}
{{typetable|Steel}}
{{typetable|Ground}}
|-
|220
|[[Image:220MS.gif]]
|{{p|Swinub}}
{{typetable|Ice}}
{{typetable|Ground}}
|-
|221
|[[Image:221MS.gif]]
|{{p|Piloswine}}
{{typetable|Ice}}
{{typetable|Ground}}
|-
|246
|[[Image:246MS.gif]]
|{{p|Larvitar}}
{{typetable|Rock}}
{{typetable|Ground}}
|-
|247
|[[Image:247MS.gif]]
|{{p|Pupitar}}
{{typetable|Rock}}
{{typetable|Ground}}
|-
|259
|[[Image:259MS.gif]]
|{{p|Marshtomp}}
{{typetable|Water}}
{{typetable|Ground}}
|-
|260
|[[Image:260MS.gif]]
|{{p|Swampert}}
{{typetable|Water}}
{{typetable|Ground}}
|-
|290
|[[Image:290MS.gif]]
|{{p|Nincada}}
{{typetable|Bug}}
{{typetable|Ground}}
|-
|322
|[[Image:322MS.gif]]
|{{p|Numel}}
{{typetable|Fire}}
{{typetable|Ground}}
|-
|323
|[[Image:323MS.gif]]
|{{p|Camerupt}}
{{typetable|Fire}}
{{typetable|Ground}}
|-
|339
|[[Image:339MS.gif]]
|{{p|Barboach}}
{{typetable|Water}}
{{typetable|Ground}}
|-
|340
|[[Image:340MS.gif]]
|{{p|Whiscash}}
{{typetable|Water}}
{{typetable|Ground}}
|-
|389
|[[Image:389MS.gif]]
|{{p|Torterra}}
{{typetable|Grass}}
{{typetable|Ground}}
|-
|413
|[[Image:413GMS.png]]
|{{p|Wormadam}}{{tt|*|Sandy Cloak}}
{{typetable|Bug}}
{{typetable|Ground}}
|-
|423
|[[Image:423MS.png]]
|{{p|Gastrodon}}
{{typetable|Water}}
{{typetable|Ground}}
|-
|443
|[[Image:443MS.png]]
|{{p|Gible}}
{{typetable|Dragon}}
{{typetable|Ground}}
|-
|444
|[[Image:444MS.png]]
|{{p|Gabite}}
{{typetable|Dragon}}
{{typetable|Ground}}
|-
|445
|[[Image:445MS.png]]
|{{p|Garchomp}}
{{typetable|Dragon}}
{{typetable|Ground}}
|-
|473
|[[Image:473MS.png]]
|{{p|Mamoswine}}
{{typetable|Ice}}
{{typetable|Ground}}
|}

==Moves==

===Damage-dealing moves===

{| {{bluetable2|r sortable}} width="100%"
|- class="c"
! Name
! Category
! Contest
! Power
! Accuracy
! PP
! Target
! Notes
|-
| class="l" | {{m|Bone Club}}
| class="c" | {{ic|Physical}}
| class="c" | {{ic|Tough}}
| class="c" | 65
| class="c" | 85%
| class="c" | 20
| class="c" | One foe
| class="l" | Has a 10% chance of causing the opponent to {{status|Flinch|flinch}}.
|-
| class="l" | {{m|Bone Rush}}
| class="c" | {{ic|Physical}}
| class="c" | {{ic|Tough}}
| class="c" | 25
| class="c" | 80%
| class="c" | 10
| class="c" | One foe
| class="l" | Attacks two to five times in a row.
|-
| class="l" | {{m|Bonemerang}}
| class="c" | {{ic|Physical}}
| class="c" | {{ic|Cool}}
| class="c" | 50
| class="c" | 90%
| class="c" | 10
| class="c" | One foe
| class="l" | Hits twice.
|-
| class="l" | {{m|Dig}}
| class="c" | {{ic|Physical}}
| class="c" | {{ic|Smart}}
| class="c" | 80
| class="c" | 100%
| class="c" | 10
| class="c" | One foe
| class="l" | In battle: User digs the first turn, then strikes the next turn. Out of battle: Used to escape tunnels.
|-
| class="l" | {{m|Earth Power}}
| class="c" | {{ic|Special}}
| class="c" | {{ic|Smart}}
| class="c" | 90
| class="c" | 100%
| class="c" | 10
| class="c" | One foe
| class="l" | Has 10% chance to lower the target's {{stat|Special Defense}}.
|-
| class="l" | {{m|Earthquake}}
| class="c" | {{ic|Physical}}
| class="c" | {{ic|Tough}}
| class="c" | 100
| class="c" | 100%
| class="c" | 10
| class="c" | Everyone else
| class="l" |
|-
| class="l" | {{m|Fissure}}
| class="c" | {{ic|Physical}}
| class="c" | {{ic|Tough}}
| class="c" | —
| class="c" | 30%
| class="c" | 5
| class="c" | One foe
| class="l" | Target faints.
|-
| class="l" | {{m|Magnitude}}
| class="c" | {{ic|Physical}}
| class="c" | {{ic|Tough}}
| class="c" | Varies
| class="c" | 100%
| class="c" | 30
| class="c" | Everyone else
| class="l" | Damage chosen randomly.
|-
| class="l" | {{m|Mud Bomb}}
| class="c" | {{ic|Special}}
| class="c" | {{ic|Smart}}
| class="c" | 65
| class="c" | 85%
| class="c" | 10
| class="c" | One foe
| class="l" | Has 30% chance to lower the target's {{stat|accuracy}}.
|-
| class="l" | {{m|Mud Shot}}
| class="c" | {{ic|Special}}
| class="c" | {{ic|Tough}}
| class="c" | 55
| class="c" | 95%
| class="c" | 15
| class="c" | One foe
| class="l" | Lowers the opponent's {{stat|Speed}}.
|-
| class="l" | {{m|Mud-Slap}}
| class="c" | {{ic|Physical}}
| class="c" | {{ic|Cute}}
| class="c" | 20
| class="c" | 100%
| class="c" | 10
| class="c" | One foe
| class="l" | Lowers the opponent's {{stat|accuracy}}.
|-
| class="l" | {{m|Sand Tomb}}
| class="c" | {{ic|Physical}}
| class="c" | {{ic|Smart}}
| class="c" | 15
| class="c" | 70%
| class="c" | 15
| class="c" | One foe
| class="l" | Attacks for two to five turns.
|}

===Non-damaging moves===

{| {{bluetable2|r sortable}} width="100%"
|- class="c"
! Name
! Category
! Contest
! Power
! Accuracy
! PP
! Target
! Notes
|-
| class="l" | {{m|Mud Sport}}
| class="c" | {{ic|Status}}
| class="c" | {{ic|Cute}}
| class="c" | —
| class="c" | —%
| class="c" | 15
| class="c" | User
| class="l" | Weakens {{type2|Electric}} moves.
|-
| class="l" | {{m|Sand-Attack}}
| class="c" | {{ic|Status}}
| class="c" | {{ic|Cute}}
| class="c" | —
| class="c" | 100%
| class="c" | 15
| class="c" | One foe
| class="l" | Lowers opponent's {{stat|accuracy}} by 1 level.
|-
| class="l" | {{m|Spikes}}
| class="c" | {{ic|Status}}
| class="c" | {{ic|Smart}}
| class="c" | —
| class="c" | —%
| class="c" | 20
| class="c" | Both foes
| class="l" | Lays spikes that damage opponents who switch into battle.
|}

==Trivia==
* The {{type2|Electric}} is the only type not neutral to Ground that has not been combined with the Ground-type yet.
* Along with the {{type2|Fighting}}, Ground-type moves weaken the most Pokémon types, with five.

==In other languages==
* French: '''Sol'''
* German: '''Boden'''
* Italian: '''Terra'''
* Spanish: '''Tierra'''
* Korean: '''땅''' ''ttang''
* Hebrew: '''אדמה''' ''adamah''

[[de:Boden (Typ)]]
[[fr:Sol]]
[[ja:じめん]]
[[pt:Tipo Ground]]

Talk:Pokémon games

2008-09-29T16:58:44Z

Monblazon: /* Wierd */

I propose moving [[Pokémon Box Ruby and Sapphire|Pokémon Box]] back to the "Generation III" section. Since it has the same kind of emulation and Pokémon storage features as in the [[Pokémon Stadium]] series, it follows the base Pokémon game style much more closely than the rest of the titles listed under "Other Games". I just posted here instead of editing the page so that I could get someone else's opinion rather than starting an edit war.
-Woopert
----

Pokémon Box is already in the Generation III article. It's in the bottom part of the Other Generation III games category along with two minor points. It's always been there as I wrote the article. Check it out here:

http://www.bulbagarden.net/pedia/Generation_III

L_X
-----------------------
Sorry for confusing you; I was talking about where [[Pokémon Box Ruby and Sapphire|Box]] was listed on [[Pokémon games|this page]], where Meowth346 moved it from the blue "Generation III" square to the teal "Other Games" square.

-----------------------------------
Done. [[User:Meowth346|Meowth346]] 02:49, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)

== Other Games General Information ==

Currently the General Information link in the Other Games section leads to the [[Generation I]] article, it's obviously not supposeed to lead there, but where should it lead?
- [[User:MTC|MTC]] 05:58, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

== Non-copyvio patches? ==
There is a distribution of Quartz that exists only as an .ips file, patcher, and documentation. Any person who owns Ruby wouldn't be violating copyright law to use this patch and play the resulting game. Since the knockoff is quite different, notably hilarious in many aspects, and distributed in a format that consists, to my knowledge, of only original work, is it appropriate to list it in this index? While based on the Ruby ROM, the game itself is less similar to Ruby than even Sapphire.[[User:Iliekmudkips|Iliekmudkips]] 17:17, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
:Since this Wiki is against Fanfiction and other "Fan Created Content" being on it, I think that serves as a "No" to any and all ROM Hacks, reguardless of how different they are from the normal game.--[[User:PikamasterADV|PikamasterADV]] 00:27, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
== Wierd ==

Does it strike anyone else wierd that every new generation of Pokemon is released on a different Nintendo Handheld System?--[[User:23-03-33|Tommy]] 23:02, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

That, my friend, is the point. [[User:Monblazon|Monblazon]] 16:58, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Talk:Pokémon games

2008-09-29T16:58:25Z

Monblazon: /* Wierd */

I propose moving [[Pokémon Box Ruby and Sapphire|Pokémon Box]] back to the "Generation III" section. Since it has the same kind of emulation and Pokémon storage features as in the [[Pokémon Stadium]] series, it follows the base Pokémon game style much more closely than the rest of the titles listed under "Other Games". I just posted here instead of editing the page so that I could get someone else's opinion rather than starting an edit war.
-Woopert
----

Pokémon Box is already in the Generation III article. It's in the bottom part of the Other Generation III games category along with two minor points. It's always been there as I wrote the article. Check it out here:

http://www.bulbagarden.net/pedia/Generation_III

L_X
-----------------------
Sorry for confusing you; I was talking about where [[Pokémon Box Ruby and Sapphire|Box]] was listed on [[Pokémon games|this page]], where Meowth346 moved it from the blue "Generation III" square to the teal "Other Games" square.

-----------------------------------
Done. [[User:Meowth346|Meowth346]] 02:49, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)

== Other Games General Information ==

Currently the General Information link in the Other Games section leads to the [[Generation I]] article, it's obviously not supposeed to lead there, but where should it lead?
- [[User:MTC|MTC]] 05:58, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

== Non-copyvio patches? ==
There is a distribution of Quartz that exists only as an .ips file, patcher, and documentation. Any person who owns Ruby wouldn't be violating copyright law to use this patch and play the resulting game. Since the knockoff is quite different, notably hilarious in many aspects, and distributed in a format that consists, to my knowledge, of only original work, is it appropriate to list it in this index? While based on the Ruby ROM, the game itself is less similar to Ruby than even Sapphire.[[User:Iliekmudkips|Iliekmudkips]] 17:17, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
:Since this Wiki is against Fanfiction and other "Fan Created Content" being on it, I think that serves as a "No" to any and all ROM Hacks, reguardless of how different they are from the normal game.--[[User:PikamasterADV|PikamasterADV]] 00:27, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
== Wierd ==

Does it strike anyone else wierd that every new generation of Pokemon is released on a different Nintendo Handheld System?--[[User:23-03-33|Tommy]] 23:02, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

That, my friend, is the point[[User:Monblazon|Monblazon]] 16:58, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Talk:Pokémon of myth/Archive 1

2008-09-21T22:48:35Z

Monblazon: /* I've been thinking about something... */

{{:User:Shiningpikablu252/PA}}
But... we don't even know if they're a trio... '''[[User:TTEchidna|T]][[User talk:TTEchidna|T]][[wp:Echidna|Echidna]]''' 05:20, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

== Wait a tick... ==

Palkia is the Space pokemon 
Dialga is the Time pokemon 
Arceus is the Alpha pokemon 

Wouldn't this technically be the trio; given that, well, aren't Palkia and Dialga technically made of Arceus, or something?

Although, if you took into account that Giratina is related to an "ancient cemetary in another dimension", you could technically consider it:
Arceus ; life ; Alpha
Giratina ; death ; Omega

Beginning and end, so to speak...maybe it could work? Myrmidon 06:58, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
:That'd then make Arceus the master of this trio, too... '''[[User:TTEchidna|T]][[User talk:TTEchidna|T]][[wp:Echidna|Echidna]]''' 09:37, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

::Arceus really did a lot for the world of Pokémon, at least in the mythology. Althoughit is unknown how Arceus relates to Giratina, unlike Dialga and Palkia, where it is clearly known that Arceus created the two. Therefore, it is not really certain if Arceus is in fact the master of this trio. [[User:Pokéball|Pok]][[User_talk:Pokéball|é]][[Special:Contributions/Pokéball|ball]] 18:27, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
:::Either way, I still don't think we should name the "dragon trio" off until DP v3 comes out. We knew beforehand that Rayquaza was the third member of the weather trio, but that's mostly because it just fit. Far as I'm concerned, Dialga and Palkia are just a duo, like Ho-Oh and Lugia. '''[[User:TTEchidna|T]][[User talk:TTEchidna|T]][[wp:Echidna|Echidna]]''' 19:04, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
::::Isn't it obvious that Arceus created Giratina? --[[User:Shiny Noctowl|Shiny Noctowl]][[User talk:Shiny Noctowl|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Shiny Noctowl|Contribs]][[Image:Ani164MS.gif]] 01:45, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
::::Here's proof:
{| border="1" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0"
| align="center" colspan="2" |     || align="center"| [[Image:483.png]] || align="center"| [[Image:484.png]] || align="center"| [[Image:487.png]]
|-
| align="center" rowspan="10"| Attacks (Attacks in '''bold''' do direct damage) || Start || colspan="3" align="center"| '''{{m|DragonBreath}}''' {{m|Scary Face}}
|-
| 10 || '''{{m|Metal Claw}}''' || '''{{m|Water Pulse}}''' || '''{{m|Ominous Wind}}'''
|-
| 20 || colspan="3" align="center"| '''{{m|AncientPower}}'''
|-
| 30 || colspan="3" align="center"| '''{{m|Dragon Claw}}'''
|-
| 40 || '''{{m|Roar of Time}}''' || '''{{m|Spacial Rend}}''' || '''{{m|Shadow Force}}'''
|-
| 50 || colspan="3" align="center"| {{m|Heal Block}}
|-
| 60 || colspan="3" align="center"| '''{{m|Earth Power}}'''
|-
| 70 || colspan="3" align="center"| '''{{m|Slash}}'''
|-
| 80 || '''{{m|Flash Cannon}}''' || '''{{m|Aqua Tail}}''' || '''{{m|Shadow Claw}}'''
|-
| 90 || colspan="3" align="center"| '''{{m|Aura Sphere}}'''
|}
[[Image:Ani164MS.gif]][[User:Shiny Noctowl|Shiny]][[User talk:Shiny Noctowl|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Shiny Noctowl|Contribs]][[Image:Ani408MS.gif]][[Image:Ani410MS.gif]] 12:13, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

:I'm totally against this. This is purely fan speculation...[[Image:Ani475MS.gif]] '''[[User:Optimus35|Agent]] [[User:Optimus35/Mission|4]][[User:Optimus35/Emerald|4]][[Gallade (Pokémon)|8]][[User talk:Optimus35|δ]] | [[User:Optimus35/Diamond&Pearl|DP]]''' | [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?limit=50&title=Special%3AContributions&contribs=user&target=Optimus35&namespace=0&year=&month=-1 ☆][[Image:Ani282MS.gif]] 11:51, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
::Seconded. Adding a cleanup tag. Fan speculation and move similarity mean sh*t, tbh.[[User:Dark0805|'''Dark0805''']] ([[User talk:Dark0805|''talk'']]|[[Special:Contributions/Dark0805|''contribs'']]) 17:06, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
Compare to this:
{| border="1" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0"
| align="center" colspan="2" |     || align="center"| [[Image:382.png]] || align="center"| [[Image:383.png]] || align="center"| [[Image:384.png]]
|-
| align="center" rowspan="12"| Attacks (Attacks in '''bold''' do direct damage) || Start || '''{{m|Water Pulse}}''' || '''{{m|Mud Shot}}''' || '''{{m|Twister}}'''
|-
| 5 || colspan="3" align="center"| {{m|Scary Face}}
|-
| 15 || colspan="3" align="center"| '''{{m|AncientPower}}'''
|-
| 20 || '''{{m|Body Slam}}''' || '''{{m|Slash}}''' || '''{{m|Dragon Claw}}'''
|-
| 30 || {{m|Calm Mind}} || {{m|Bulk Up}} || {{m|Dragon Dance}}
|-
| 35 || '''{{m|Ice Beam}}''' || '''{{m|Earthquake}}''' || '''{{m|Crunch}}'''
|-
| 45 || '''{{m|Hydro Pump}}''' || '''{{m|Fire Blast}}''' || '''{{m|Fly}}'''
|-
| 50 || colspan="3" align="center"| {{m|Rest}}
|-
| 60 || '''{{m|Sheer Cold}}''' || '''{{m|Fissure}}''' || '''{{m|Extremespeed}}'''
|-
| 65 || '''{{m|Double-Edge}}''' || '''{{m|Solarbeam}}''' || '''{{m|Hyper Beam}}'''
|-
| 75 || '''{{m|Aqua Tail}}''' || '''{{m|Earth Power}}''' || '''{{m|Dragon Pulse}}'''
|-
| 80 || '''{{m|Water Spout}}''' || '''{{m|Eruption}}''' || '''{{m|Outrage}}'''
|}

Or this:
{| border="1" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0"
| align="center" colspan="2" |     || align="center"| [[Image:377.png]] || align="center"| [[Image:378.png]] || align="center"| [[Image:379.png]]
|-
| align="center" rowspan="12"| Attacks (Attacks in '''bold''' do direct damage) || Start || colspan="3" align="center"| '''{{M|Explosion}}'''
|-
| 9 || '''{{m|Rock Throw}}''' || '''{{m|Icy Wind}}''' || '''{{m|Metal Claw}}'''
|-
| 17 || colspan="3" align="center"| {{m|Curse}}
|-
| 25 || colspan="3" align="center"| '''{{m|Superpower}}'''
|-
| 33 || colspan="3" align="center"| '''{{m|AncientPower}}'''
|-
| 41 || {{m|Iron Defense}}   ||   {{m|Amnesia}} || {{m|Iron Defense}} {{m|Amnesia}}
|-
| 49 || colspan="3" align="center"| '''{{m|Charge Beam}}'''
|-
| 57 || colspan="3" align="center"| {{m|Lock On}}
|-
| 65 || colspan="3" align="center"| '''{{m|Zap Cannon}}'''
|-
| 73 || '''{{m|Stone Edge}}'''   ||   '''{{m|Ice Beam}}''' || '''{{m|Iron Head}}''' '''{{m|Flash Cannon}}'''
|-
| 81 || colspan="3" align="center"| '''{{m|Hammer Arm}}'''
|-
| 89 || colspan="3" align="center"| '''{{m|Hyper Beam}}'''
|}

[[Image:Ani164MS.gif]][[User:Shiny Noctowl|Shiny]][[User talk:Shiny Noctowl|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Shiny Noctowl|Contribs]][[Image:Ani408MS.gif]][[Image:Ani410MS.gif]] 12:11, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Well it is possible. There is space and time. What else is there. Giratina is said to live in a world on the reverse side of ours. This is possibly the afterlife. This place may neither be space nor time. If these three pokémon are a trio, then it would mean that this trio would control Space, Time, and the Afterlife, which are the only places where anyone could possibly be. [[User:Pokemaniac102|Pokemaniac102]]

AND THEY ALL SHARE THE SAME STATS ONLY MIXED UP.

So, since it's not official. the Dragon Trio, although is based on a certain amount of canon, is fanon as Pokémon and Nintendo have nto released it officially...'''<sc>[[User:Optimus35|{{tt|Optimatum♏|Optimus35}}]]</sc>[[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|♊]]Hi''' 07:03, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

First, Dialga, Palkia, and Giratina all appear in the 11th movie. Second, WHY CAN'T WE ALL WAIT!!![[Image:Ani471MS.gif]][[User:Pokemaniac102|'''Poke''''''maniac''''''102''']] 17:55, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

:Unless someone can give me ''official'' proof that these three are the trio, and that {{p|Giratina}} is the master and the mascot for the third DP game, I'm putting a delete notice on this page. [[Canon]], people! -[[Image:Spr 3e 186.gif|30px]][[User:Politoed666|ニョロトノ]][[User talk:Politoed666|''666'']][[Image:Spr 3e 186.gif|30px]]

::"May even be true" doesn't cut it here. For instance, it may be true that [[Ash Ketchum]] is a cross-dressing girl! However, I'll hold off on the deletion notice until a sysop okays it. -[[Image:Spr 3e 186.gif|30px]][[User:Politoed666|ニョロトノ]][[User talk:Politoed666|''666'']][[Image:Spr 3e 186.gif|30px]]
:How bout shipping the names are fanon and the whole thing is fanon.[[Image:Ani471MS.gif]][[User:Pokemaniac102|'''Poke''''''maniac''''''102''']][[Image:AniEggMS.gif]] 23:57, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

::::[[Shipping]] '''usually''' has some logical basis, and it's noted that it may not be true. It's '''accepted''' that ships are often false (sorry, shippers!), but stuff like this has no place here unless it's official. -[[Image:Spr 3e 186.gif|30px]][[User:Politoed666|ニョロトノ]][[User talk:Politoed666|''666'']][[Image:Spr 3e 186.gif|30px]]
:::::These three Pokémon being a trio '''has some logical basis,''' and it is noted that it may or may not be true. But there are people who believe that these three pokémon are a trio. Some ships have come true(Rocketshipping in manga) and this '''may''' come true too. There are reason that I believe that these three pokémon are a trio:
*They all have the same stats just mixed up.
*They have similar moves, as seen above.
*They look similar in appearance.
*They all were created at the same time, as said in the article about the History of the Pokémon world.
*I believe that Palkia controls space, Dialga controls time, and Giratina controls the only other thing, the afterlife.
But still, it hasn't been revealed yet. But there is a possibility that, '''if''' a third version comes out, It may be Giratina (or Arceus).[[Image:Ani471MS.gif]][[User:Pokemaniac102|'''Poke''''''maniac''''''102''']][[Image:AniEggMS.gif]] 21:53, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
::The possibility of it being Arceus is zero. If the third game confirms that Giratina is the third part of the chain, then fine, make the article. But until that game comes out, this is nothing but fanwank, and thus does not belong here. This page should be scrapped until this information can be OFFICIALLY confirmed. --[[User:Dual|Dual]] 09:54, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
:::Also, following Crystal's pattern, it could be one of the Lake Trio. '''<sc>[[User:Optimus35|{{tt|Optimatum♏|Optimus35}}]]</sc>[[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|♊]]Hi''' 10:14, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
::::Completely possible. But lets leave this article to rot until V3 comes out.{{ani|486}}[[User:Pokemaniac102|<big>'''''Poke'''''</big>]][[User talk:Pokemaniac102|'''''Maniac''''']][[Special:Contributions/Pokemaniac102|<big>'''''102'''''</big>]]{{ani|492}}01:08, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
:::::IF there's a V3. Gen IV has been avoiding most of the rules, such as nearly getting Dark, Psychic and Fighting starters and not all the new Pokémon are in the new dex. '''<sc>[[User:Optimus35|{{tt|Optimatum♏|Optimus35}}]]</sc>[[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|♊]]Hi''' 13:48, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

wait.. if we go by emeralds patten. the '''''MAY''''' be a battle between Palkia and diagla as depicted in the movies and Giratina will quell the battle. {{u|Dakclaw}}

Giratina cannot represent the afterlife, as the Lake trio have been stated to represent spirit. MATTER, on the other hand, is seperate from space and time, yet does not seem to be represented by Giratina. [[User:Noname|Noname]]
:I'm not talking about MATTER, I'm talking about life. What creates life, besides spirit. Space, for things to move. Time, for things to accelerate. And a life after life...{{ani|486}}[[User:Pokemaniac102|<big>'''''Poke'''''</big>]][[User talk:Pokemaniac102|'''''Maniac''''']][[Special:Contributions/Pokemaniac102|<big>'''''102'''''</big>]]{{ani|492}} 01:51, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

::I doubt that Giratina represents life after death, but I do beleive he represents Death itself. He lives in a cemetary and is part ghost. [[User:Noname|Noname]] The afterlife would be a bit of a streach and I doubt they would do that in a pokemon game.

::::::whait you're forgetting something important. If any of you has played Ruby/Sapphire, you'll note that Rayquaza is not considered part of the wheather trio, althought it has similar attacks and base stats, and it is catchable only after the elite 4. it is later given a special role in Emerald AND THEN IT IS CONSIDERED part of it. Maybe it is what will happen with Giratina, and in the third Sinnoh game, a legend will say that Arceus created the three, as it happened in Emerald with Rayquaza who in Ruby/Sapphire is not mentioned anywhere. [[User:Hfc2x|Hfc2x]] 20:57, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Well, until then, this is pure speculation, which does not belong here. We need a template or something that states that it's only speculation, and is not canon as of yet. [[User:Vekter|Vekter]] 17:03, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Maybe Giratina is part of the trio, opposing both Palkia and Dialga. I believe it's something like this: Palkia is space, Dialga is time, and Giratina would be the ''absence'' of space/time. If it's established that Giratina is "a Pokémon from another dimension", it's very easy to understand that the concept of time is different to Giratina. Also, his signature move being "Dark Void" tells us about the concept of space (also different from ours). Anyway, let's wait for the third game. I'm quite sure they'll explore Giratina as opposed to Dialga/Palkia, or maybe some collateral effect of Arceus' creation. --[[User:Rafaelpuff|Rafaelpuff]] 20:04, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

:I agree 100% with you, but Giratina's signature move is {{m|Shadow Force}}. {{m|Dark Void}} is {{p|Darkrai}}'s signature. '''[[User:Hfc2x|hfc]][[User talk:Hfc2x|2X]]''' 03:27, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

::Since this is speculation anyway, consider this: Giratina's Shadow Force makes it "suddenly vanish", making it completely untouchable. It's possible it does this but exploiting it's absence of space and time, then the next turn it rematerializes intersecting its target, causing the damage as the solid matter (or pseudo-solid in Giratina's case) violently attempts to resolve a physical impossibility.--[[User:Zyphers|Zyphers]] 12:15, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes, sorry, my bad. I've written {{m|Dark Void}} with the ingame animation of {{m|Shadow Force}} in mind. Thanks for the correction. Now, what about the new rumours? About Giratina being the mascot of the third game? If these rumours are confirmed, I guess it's no doubt that there is a Dragon Trio. Also, Serebii.net announced that there'll be a new dual-type form to Arceus - maybe an ancient form of Arceus before he "created the Dragons from itself"? Well, anyway, this is only speculation. But I like Zyphers' theory (about Giratina's Shadow Force) very much. --[[User:Rafaelpuff|Rafaelpuff]] 17:27, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

==Dragon Trio has been officially confirmed==
At last no more speculation. People who hasn't checked Serebii.net do it. A hi-res scan of the Coro coro magazine has leaked and is available [http://serebii.net/platinum/scan.jpg here]. As you can see in the pic, cyrus is standing in front of Dialga, Palkia and the shadow of Giratina. '''[[User:Hfc2x|hfc]][[User talk:Hfc2x|2X]]''' 21:33, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
:That imaged could be faked or photoshopped......[[User:Darth Cookie Monster|C is for Cookie]] 21:37, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
::Please know that THE WHOLE THING CAN BE FAKE!•'''[[User:Pokemaniac102|Poke]][[User talk:Pokemaniac102|maniac]]102''' 21:43, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

giratina is on teh box art for pokemon platinum which has been officially announced... [[User:Arutoa|Arutoa]] 20:56, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
:Well then NOW it is conformed.•'''[[User:Pokemaniac102|Poke]][[User talk:Pokemaniac102|maniac]]102''' 20:58, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
::well then lugia ho-oh and suicune are a trio by that logic - touché! '''{{Colored link|:User:Origamiguy|808080|Origami}}{{Colored link|:User:Origamiguy|FF8000|Guy}}-{{Colored link|:User_talk:Origamiguy|808080|T}}-{{Colored link|Special:Contributions/Origamiguy|FF8000|C}}-{{Colored link|:User_talk:Origamiguy/Mudkipz|0080FF|M}}''' 11:36, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
:::Not really. The boxart proves nothing by itself, or Charizard, Blastoise, and Venusaur would be a trio. But with the other evidence shared among the members of this trio (similar typing, all half {{t|Dragon}}; similar moves at the same levels; similar origin for their names ''Dia''mond/Dialga, ''P''e''a''r''l''/Palkia, Pla''tina''/Giratina)... well it pretty much says it all. But ''until we get evidence that Arceus also made Giratina'', which is undoubtedly the case, I would say, the dragon trio technically is unconfirmed. Come September, though, the whole thing will become clear.
:::I hate to be a hardass here, but hey, we're not taking any crap when it comes to anime Pokémon's gender (even for Ash's Charizard, and that's ''honestly ridiculous'' in my mind), so no crap is taken here. This trio is almost official. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 05:04, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
::::Where is it written that trios ''have'' to have a master? That idea came more from the anime and the [[The Power of One|second movie]] than anything else. Furthermore, should we really be classifying trios of [[version mascot]]s the same way we do the honest-to-[[Arceus (Pokémon)|God]] trios (ie, the birds, the beasts, the golems, the bizzare psychic things)? I've always had a problem with that. --[[User:Martonimos|Martonimos]][[User talk:Martonimos|((Argh]]|[[Special:Contributions/Martonimos|Blargh))]] 09:51, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

== No way ==

It's not necessarily part of the trio, as a matter a fact, I think it's the leader-guy! Posted by the '''[[User:Optimus35|<sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''10:03 16 May 2008'''''
:Excuse me for asking, but what do you mean by "leader-guy"? As in leader of the "duo", or the duo and Arceus? [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 23:43, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
::I believe he thinks that Giratina is sort of the '''trio master''' of the '''duo'''. But I believe that they all are a trio only with Giratina being the strongest.•'''[[User:Pokemaniac102|Poke]][[User talk:Pokemaniac102|maniac]]102''' 14:24, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
Everybody wait for platinum instead of saying "NUH UH MY THEORY IZ BETR THAN YERZ". [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 23:49, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
:I never said anything. I just believe what I said.'''[[User:Pokemaniac102|P]][[User talk:Pokemaniac102|M]][[Dragon trio|102]]''' 00:24, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
::This is the same as the weather trio. They are a trio, but there's one that's seemingly more powerful than the other two. '''[[User:Hfc2x|hfc]][[User talk:Hfc2x|2X]]''' 00:58, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
:::Thats a good point but it would still be BETTER to JUST WAIT. [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 22:13, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

== images ==

I think the image should go back to the turnback cave 1 the new 1 does not clearly depict Giratina its a silohuette and the others are in Sprite Form.
[[User:Sailor Earth|Sailor Earth]] 20:40, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
:The new image is important, though, as it demonstrates that there is probably some sort of link between the three. I think we should have both images; that way, there'd be one for each of them on their own in DP, and one of them all together in Platinum. --[[User:Martonimos|Martonimos]][[User talk:Martonimos|((Talk))]] 21:47, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
I agree 100% [[User:Sailor Earth|Sailor Earth]] 21:49, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

== Hey... ==

Look Its a trio with it being Dialga:Time Palkia:Space Giratina: '''VOID''' with arceus being the trio master of spirit and the dragon trio. [[User:Atomix26|Atomix26]] 17:16, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

== Proof ==

Pokémon Platinum serves as proof that this is a trio similar to the weather trio. --[[User talk:Shiny Noctowl|Shiny Noctowl]] 20:59, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

:Wouldn't that be like saying Lugia, Ho-Oh and Suicune are a trio? ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 17:58, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
::Nopes. Lugia and Ho-oh are kind of a duo, and Suicune is just a version mascot. Suicune has nothing to do with Lugia and that's why they aren't a trio. In Gen III however, Groudon and Kyogre were a duo, and Rayquaza was a Pokémon that had apparently no relation to the other two (not even in its pokédex description). However in Emerald, it was revealed to be part of the trio, as it's the only one capable of stoping the effects of Kyogre and Groudon. This is exactly the same that's gonna happen with Giratina. '''[[User:Hfc2x|hfc]][[User talk:Hfc2x|2X]]''' 20:06, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

== I've been thinking about something... ==

I was watching TV one day and they said something about Time, Space and DIMENSION.
That made me think about how each of the dragon trio has a certain control over what they represent
and that Giratina has control over dimension. So wouldn't that make Giratina represent Dimension? [[User:Darkmaster0]] 20:09, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
:True. '''[[User:LugiaFan|''Lugia'']][[User talk:LugiaFan|''Rules!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"]]''' 17:05, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
::I was thinking the same. In fact I'd like to suggest renaming the trio to a more specific term like '''Reality trio''', as in time, space and dimension being the three elements of reality, though I prefer to leave it up for debate. --[[User:Kaoz|Kaoz]] 01:20, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
:Maybe it was on doctor who - TARDIS stands for {{p2|Dialga|'''Time'''}} And Relative {{p2|Giratina|'''Dimension'''}} In {{p2|Palkia|'''Space'''}}. '''{{Colored link|:User:Origamiguy|ff8000|Lord}} of {{Colored link|:User_talk:Origamiguy|ff8000|Ori}}{{Colored link|Special:Contributions/Origamiguy|ff8000|gami}}''' 12:50, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
::TARDIS Dragons, then? :) --[[User:Kaoz|Kaoz]] 13:33, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
:::LOL'''[[User:Shazaaaam|SHA]][[User_talk:Shazaaaam|ZAA]][[Special:Contributions/Shazaaaam|AAM!]]''' 13:35, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
I think that Giratina represents the NEGATIVE of Dialga and Palkia's respective dimensions, like the negative of an photograph. It's as if the negative were intertwined behind the strings of dimension, thus it having a connection, like an astral plane. [[User:TorchicBlaziken|TorchicBlaziken]] 14:20, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Somebody is misinformed here. Space is the combination OF the first three DIMENSION'''S'''. The fourth Dimension is the forward and backward directions of Time. Also, if Giratina resides in the '''Reverse'''World, then surely there should be a fourth - to oppose both Dialga and Palkia! Do I make sense?[[User:Monblazon|Monblazon]] 20:59, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
:Hmm, sorry to bump an old topic, but I believe SPACE is the first three dimensions and TIME is the fourth. A 3D thing can't see anything 4D or higher (that's why we can't 'see' time). Giratina is in the Reverse World, supposedly a separate world from ours. However, could it be that the Reverse World is our world, just that it has more dimensions? And building on that, does that mean that the Reverse World allows travel in time? '''[[User:Optimatum|<sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Optimatum|Talk]]|[[User:Optimatum/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''06:46 3 Sep 2008'''''
::Now that you mention it, string theory has those six extra curled-up dimensions, which could be why the Reverse/Torn world is shaped so oddly...
::Although I somehow doubt that the people responsible for coming up with these things pay much attention to theoretical physics. --[[User:Martonimos|Martonimos]][[User talk:Martonimos|((Argh]]|[[Special:Contributions/Martonimos|Blargh))]] 20:45, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
:::Especially since those curled up dimensions are very 'small'. And that it is called the 'Reverse' world suggests a form of opposition, as is found with matter and anti-matter, therefore necessitating the need for a fourth related Legendary to maintain the balance of the worlds. i.e. If Giratina is the 'Reverse' equivalent of either Dialga or Palkia, then there is an imbalance - and a Gap to be filled by another Reverse World Pokémon.[[User:Monblazon|Monblazon]] 23:58, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
:::: Also, the First two Seasons of the Diamond and Pearl series are What? Diamond and Pearl, the first two Games of [[Generation IV]]; and Battle DIMENTION, the thing that Giratina controls. [[User:ShinyPikachu|§hin¥£ik@chµ]] 00:34, 10 September 2008 (UTC) P.S. Please join [[User:ShinyPikachu/The User Post Gazette|The User Post Gazette]]
:::::Obviously yo didn't get it... SPACE and TIME '''are''' DIMENTIONS. Giratina doen't control DIMENTION, or it would have been named "Spatial and Temporal Pokémon" instead of "Renegade Pokémon". He is more a negative-space controlling Pokémon. '''[[User:Hfc2x|hfc]][[User talk:Hfc2x|2X]]''' 20:03, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::So, u r sayin that {{p|Giratina|Giratina}} controls somethin' like a {{wp|blackhole}}? [[User:ShinyPikachu|§#!π¥£!Ψ@Ϛ#µ]] 00:12, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
Not exactly. A black hole is a strong gravitational field around nothing (like a planet or star). Giratina seems to control a negative space, created of anti-matter, but there seems to be an unbalance as it looks to be only the oposite of Palkia. There is an unbalance because in its dimension there is no anti-temporal Pokémon. '''[[User:Hfc2x|hfc]][[User talk:Hfc2x|2X]]''' 02:57, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

:By jove I got through to somebody at last! The creators have either been very neglectful, or Giratina is not a specific opposite to any other Pokemon. As has been said then if it were the opposite to one of the other Dragons then there must have been a fourth! (Maybe they are saving it for the remakes;-p.)[[User:Monblazon|Monblazon]] 22:48, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

== New Table ==
I think this resolves everything:

{| border="1" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0"
|Species
| align="center"| [[Image:Spr_4d_483.png]] {{p|Dialga}} || align="center"| [[Image:Spr_4d_484.png]] {{p|Palkia}} || align="center"| [[Image:Spr_4d_487.png]] {{p|Giratina}}
|-
| Type 1
| style="background: #{{Steel color}};" | '''Steel'''-type
| style="background: #{{Water color}};" | '''Water'''-type
| style="background: #{{Ghost color}};" | '''Ghost'''-type
|-
| Type 2
| style="background: #{{Dragon color}};" | '''Dragon'''-type
| style="background: #{{Dragon color}};" | '''Dragon'''-type
| style="background: #{{Dragon color}};" | '''Dragon'''-type
|-
| Level 10
| style="background: #{{Steel color}};" | ''{{m|Metal Claw}}'' '''Steel'''-Type
| style="background: #{{Water color}};" | ''{{m|Water Pulse}}'' '''Water'''-type
| style="background: #{{Ghost color}};" | ''{{m|Ominous Wind}}'' '''Ghost'''-type
|-
| Level 40
| style="background: #{{Dragon color}};" | ''{{m|Roar of Time}}'' '''Dragon'''-type
| style="background: #{{Dragon color}};" | ''{{m|Spacial Rend}}'' '''Dragon'''-type
| style="background: #{{Ghost color}};" | ''{{m|Shadow Force}}'' '''Ghost'''-type
|-
| Level 80
| style="background: #{{Steel color}};" | ''{{m|Flash Cannon}}'' '''Steel'''-type
| style="background: #{{Water color}};" | ''{{m|Aqua Tail}}'' '''Water'''-type
| style="background: #{{Ghost color}};" | ''{{m|Shadow Claw}}'' '''Ghost'''-type
|}

'''{{Colored link|:User:Origamiguy|ff8000|Lord}} of {{Colored link|:User_talk:Origamiguy|ff8000|Ori}}{{Colored link|Special:Contributions/Origamiguy|ff8000|gami}}''' 13:23, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

== Form/Forme ==

Change it. It's in the article. '''[[User:Optimatum|<sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Optimatum|Talk]]|[[User:Optimatum/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''06:52 3 Sep 2008'''''

:There's no real need to change something if pretty much 100% it's not going to stick, such as this whole "forme" bullsh*t. Trust me, it'll be "Origin Form" when it's revealed stateside, and that'll be the end of this whole "forme" debacle. --[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 15:22, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
::Except for Deoxys being Attack Forme on Pokémon.com, you know. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 02:58, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

== Giratina Sprite ==

Should we use the Platinum Sprite for Giratina? [[User:ShinyPikachu|§hin¥£ik@chµ]] 00:18, 10 September 2008 (UTC) P.S. Please join the [[User:ShinyPikachu/The User Post Gazette|The User Post Gazette]]:D
:As in.. Origin Forme? '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 09:05, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
::Yea. [[User:ShinyPikachu|§#!π¥£!Ψ@Ϛ#µ]] 00:08, 16 September 2008 (UTC) P.S. Please join [[User:ShinyPikachu/The User Post Gazette|The User Post Gazette]].

Beldum (Pokémon)

2008-09-17T00:20:09Z

Monblazon: /* In the anime */

{{PokémonPrevNext | prev=Salamence | next=Metang }}
{{PokémonInfobox|
name=Beldum |
jname=ダンバル |
tmname=Dumbber |
image=374Beldum.png |
caption=Artwork from R/S/E |
ndex=374 |
hdex=190 |
fdex=190 |
typen=2 |
type1=Steel |
type2=Psychic |
species=Iron Ball |
height-ftin=2′00″ |
height-m=0.6 |
weight-lbs=209.9 |
weight-kg=95.2 |
abilityn=1 |
ability1=Clear Body |
ability2= |
egggroupn=1 |
egggroup1=Mineral |
egggroup2= |
hatchsteps=10,240 |
effortyield=1 Def |
expyield=103 |
lv100exp=1,250,000 |
gender=none |
female=0 |
male=0 |
color=Blue |
catchrate=3 |
body=05 |
pokefordex=beldum |
generation=3 |
footnotes=}}
'''Beldum''' ([[List of Japanese Pokémon names|Japanese]]: '''ダンバル''' ''Dumbber'') is a dual-type {{2t|Steel|Psychic}} Pokémon.

==Biology==
===Physiology===
Beldum is a robotic lifeform that has a long body with a set of claws sticking out of its rear end. It has one large red eye in the center of its nearly-round head, which is set into a ball-and-socket joint at its front end. It has a short crest above its head, projecting from its body. Even though Beldum and its evolved forms are mechanical creatures, they still have emotions, the need to eat and a way of reproducing. Beldum has been said to be related to {{p|Magnemite}} due to the fact that both of them are partially Steel-type that create electromagnetic waves to float in the air, and probably due to the fact that they evolve in a similar fashion, it takes two Beldum to evolve into a Metang and two Metang to evolve into a Metagross.

====Gender differences====
This Pokémon is genderless.

====Special abilities====
Beldum's body is magnetised, and it uses magnetism to move, communicate, and control its attacks. It is said to be related to Magnemite, but Beldum's magnetism focuses on {{t|Psychic}} moves instead of {{t|Electric}} moves. Beldum's skills in battle are extremely limited as it is only capable of using {{m|Take Down}}.

===Behavior===
===Habitat===
[[Image:Roughterrain.gif|right|frame|[[List of Pokémon by habitat#Rough-terrain Pokémon|Rough-terrain Pokémon]]]]
Beldum are very scarce in the wild, but they do tend to inhabit areas with rugged terrain.

===Diet===
{{main|Pokémon food}}

==In the anime==
[[Image:AG126 043.jpeg|right|thumb|220px|Morrison's Beldum being struck with a heavy blow.]]
Beldum first appeared in ''[[AG118|Less is Morrison]]''. [[Morrison]] had plans on using the Iron Ball Pokémon in the [[Hoenn]] League. Morrison's Beldum evolved into {{TP|Morrison|Metang}} in ''[[AG126|Saved by the Beldum]]''.

==In the manga==
In [[Pokémon Special]], [[Steven Stone]] owns a huge amount of Beldum that serve, along with a {{P|Metang}} and {{P|Metagross}}, as miners that help him unearth rare stones in various caves around Hoenn. These same Beldum were called upon to defeat the {{p|Mawile}} herd in [[Granite Cave]] when both {{special|Ruby}} and Steven were attacked by them.

==In the TCG==
{{main|Beldum (TCG)}}

==Game data==
===Pokédex entries===
{{Dex
|type=steel
|gen=3
|rubydex=Instead of blood, a powerful magnetic force courses throughout Beldum's body. This Pokémon communicates with others by sending controlled pulses of magnetism.
|sapphiredex=Beldum keeps itself floating by generating a magnetic force that repels earth's natural magnetism. When it sleeps, this Pokémon anchors itself to a cliff using the hooks on its rear.
|emeralddex=When Beldum gather in a swarm, they move in perfect unison as if they were but one Pokémon. They communicate with each other using brain waves.
|firereddex=It uses magnetic waves to converse with its kind. All the cells in its body are magnetic.
|leafgreendex=It uses magnetic waves to converse with its kind. All the cells in its body are magnetic.
|diamonddex=It converses with others by using magnetic pulses. In a swarm, they move in perfect unison.
|pearldex=It converses with others by using magnetic pulses. In a swarm, they move in perfect unison.
|}}

===Game locations===
{{Availability|
type=steel |
gen=3 |
rsrarity=One |
rsarea=[[Steven Stone|Steven]]'s house in [[Mossdeep City]] |
erarity=One |
earea=[[Steven Stone|Steven]]'s house in [[Mossdeep City]] |
dprarity=Swarm |
dparea={{rt|228}} |
ptrarity=[[Swarms|Swarm]] |
ptarea={{rt|228}} |
palarea=Mountain |
}}

====In side games====
{| border="1" style="border: 1px solid #999; border-collapse: collapse; background: white; margin: auto;" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="2"
|- style="background: #{{steel color}};"
! Game
! Location
|-
| [[Pokémon Pinball: Ruby & Sapphire]]
| Ruins
|-
| [[Pokémon Trozei!]]
| Phobosphere Endless Level 46 Forever Level 46 Mr. Who's Den
|-
| [[Pokémon Mystery Dungeon|Pokémon Mystery Dungeon (Red and Blue)]]
| [[Mt. Steel]] (6F-8F) [[Wish Cave]] (15F-17F) [[Solar Cave]] (15F-17F) [[Joyous Tower]] (14F-16F)
|-
| [[Pokémon Ranger]]
| [[Jungle Relic]] [[Go-Rock Squad Base]]
|-
| [[Pokémon Mystery Dungeon 2|Pokémon Mystery Dungeon (Time and Darkness)]]
| [[Crystal Cave]] (B1-B7)
|}

===Base stats===
{{BaseStats|
HP=40 |
Attack=55 |
Defense=80 |
SpAtk=35 |
SpDef=60 |
Speed=30 }}

===Type effectiveness===
{{DP Type effectiveness|
type1=steel|
type2=psychic|
Normal=50 |
Flying=50 |
Fighting=100 |
Ground=200 |
Rock=50 |
Fire=200 |
Grass=50 |
Bug=100 |
Poison=0 |
Electric=100 |
Psychic=25 |
Ghost=100 |
Water=100 |
Ice=50 |
Dragon=50 |
Dark=100 |
Steel=50 }}

===Learnset===
{{learnset intro|Beldum}}

====By [[level|leveling up]]====
{{movelist|steel|psychic|4|3|Beldum}}
{{mlentry4|Start|Take Down|Normal|Physical|90|85|20|Tough|3}}
{{movelist/note|4}}

====By [[TM]]/[[HM]]====
None.

====By [[breeding]]====
None.

====By [[Move tutor|tutoring]]====
None.

===Side game data===
{{Side game|
type=steel |
ndex=374 |
PinRScatch=yes |
HC=C |
Trozei=yes |
rarity=Common |
Dungeon=yes |
body=1 |
rate=7.8% |
area=Magnetic Quarry |
P1= I converse with others using magnetism. |
P2= My HP has declined to approximately half. |
P3= I can't do this... My magnetism is weakening... |
PL= My level's gone up! My magnetism has too! |
Partner=no |
Ranger=yes |
typeG= Steel |
typeA= Psychic |
field= Tackle |
loop=5 |
MinEXP=32 |
MaxEXP=62 |
browser= Beldum throws full-body charges. It can easily shunt aside a small obstacle. |
}}

===Evolution===
{{evobox/2|374|Beldum|2|Steel|Psychic|[[Level|Level 20]]|375|Metang|2|Steel|Psychic|[[Level|Level 45]]|376|Metagross|2|Steel|Psychic}}

===Sprites===
{{Sprite|
type=steel|
gen=3|
gender=none|
ndex=374|
name=Beldum|
}}

==Trivia==
* Beldum and its evolutions are three of six Pokémon to have the same numbers in two [[regional Pokédex]]es, being 190, 191, and 192 in both [[Hoenn Dex|Hoenn]] and [[List of Pokémon by Fiore Browser number|Fiore]]. The other three are {{p|Bulbasaur}} and its evolutions, being 001, 002, and 003 in both [[Kanto Dex|Kanto]] and Fiore.
* Beldum, along with its evolved forms, are the only non-legendary Pokémon to have a catch rate of 3, which is the lowest possible. In [[Generation III]], this low catch rate would never take effect, unless the player is [[cheating]] or encountering a {{p|Ditto}} that transforms into Beldum. However, in [[Generation IV]], Beldum can be found as a swarm on {{rt|228}}, making Beldum difficult to capture due to its self-damaging move, {{m|Take Down}}, and the [[weather conditions#Sandstorm|sandstorm]] raging around.
*Beldum, as well as its evolutions, has been seen to be able to float in the air though {{wp|magnetism}}. However, it does not have the {{a|Levitate}} ability, nor is it able to learn {{m|Magnet Rise}}. Its evolutions, however, can learn the move.
===Origin===
Beldum seems to be a magnetic robot based on a {{wp|dumbbell}}.
====Name origin====
Beldum's English and Japanese names are both derived from ''dumbbell'', a small weight used in weight training.

==In other languages==
*[[List of German Pokémon names|German]]: Tanhel - Anagram of ''Hantel'', dumbbell.
*[[List of French Pokémon names|French]]: Terhal - From ''haltère'', dumbbell.
*[[List of Korean Pokémon names|Korean]]: 메탕 ''Metang''
*[[List of Chinese Pokémon names|Chinese]]: 鐵啞鈴

==Related articles==
* [[Morrison's Beldum]]

==External links==
* [[wp:Beldum|Article on Wikipedia]]

{{PokémonPrevNext | prev=Salamence | next=Metang }}
{{Project Pokédex notice}}
[[de:Tanhel]]
[[Category:Genderless Pokémon]]
[[Category:Pokémon that are part of a three-stage evolutionary line]]

[[fr:Terhal]]
[[ja:ダンバル]]
[[pt:Beldum (pokémon)]]

User talk:TTEchidna/Archive Sep 08 2

2008-09-14T23:44:45Z

Monblazon:

<center><big>'''ATTENTION'''</big> The lulz returns {{#ifexpr: ({{#time: z|September 15, 2008}} - {{#time: z}}) > 0|in {{#expr: {{#time: z|September 15, 2008}} - {{#time: z}}}} day{{#ifexpr: {{#time: z}} < {{#time: z|September 14, 2008}}|s}}!|today!}}</center>
{{:User:TTEchidna/Archive}}
{{:User:TTEchidna/Trades}}

Damn, and in less than fifteen days. You guys gotta bug me less.

== Hey buddy ==

you mad cuz i spam yer talk pagee. lol. No, actually, I was wondering if you'd care to update the rest of {{m|Rain Dance}} to Platinum standard. {{u|PsychicRider}} started it, but ran into computer problems and couldn't finish. As for why I don't do it myself, it's cause I fail epically at stuff that involves that much coding. Believe me, I would if I could. --[[User:Politoed666|ニョロトノ]][[User talk:Politoed666|''666'']] 00:26, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
:It's easy enough to do. Just look at the other moves like it. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 00:27, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

::Alright, I guess I'll give it a shot... --[[User:Politoed666|ニョロトノ]][[User talk:Politoed666|''666'']] 00:28, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
:::Can't hurt, besides, it's mostly just parameter replacement... And I have other Platinum things to update... '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 00:31, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

== Platinum Question ==

I'm trying to edit Eevee's location in Platinum but I can't.--[[User:CoolPikachu!|'''☆Cool''']][[User talk:CoolPikachu!|'''ピカチ''']][[User Talk:CoolPikachu!/Archive 1|'''ュウ!''']] 03:00, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
:ptrarity, ptarea. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 03:02, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
::Thxs.--[[User:CoolPikachu!|'''☆Cool''']][[User talk:CoolPikachu!|'''ピカチ''']][[User Talk:CoolPikachu!/Archive 1|'''ュウ!''']] 03:06, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
:Before I leave, I gotta remind you that every non-gen IV Pokemon that are NOT in the Sinnoh Dex keeps the same D/P sprite. DO the sprite table should be altered so that the platinum links link over to the d/p sprites...OR...you could waste server space and upload the pictures AGAIN...it's all up to what the people of Bulbapeida thinks. See Ya'!--[[User:Tavisource|☆Tavis]][[User talk:Tavisource|ource]] 05:56, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
::Meaning... Cyndaquil's Pt sprite is its DP sprite? Aw man...
::But is the animation the same? '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 06:05, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
:::Small chance it may.--[[User:CoolPikachu!|'''☆Cool''']][[User talk:CoolPikachu!|'''ピカチ''']][[User Talk:CoolPikachu!/Archive 1|'''ュウ!''']] 06:16, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
::::If it's not... we must have separate files. But we shall see about that as we get more data. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 06:24, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::Okay and BTW for these pages be redirected to the respective citys or make the page?--[[User:CoolPikachu!|'''☆Cool''']][[User talk:CoolPikachu!|'''ピカチ''']][[User Talk:CoolPikachu!/Archive 1|'''ュウ!''']] 06:27, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
* Tokiwa City (Zensho)
* Tamamushi City (Zensho)
* Sekiei Kougen (Zensho)
* Sekichiku City (Zensho)
* Nibi City (Zensho)
* Kuchiba City (Zensho)
* Hanada City (Zensho)
* Guren Town (Zensho)
::::::How are they different from their counterparts in the games, anime, and everything else? '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 06:28, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
:Not really sure.--[[User:CoolPikachu!|'''☆Cool''']][[User talk:CoolPikachu!|'''ピカチ''']][[User Talk:CoolPikachu!/Archive 1|'''ュウ!''']] 06:31, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
::Well I'd doubt they're much different at all, so redirecting them to their corresponding cities wouldn't be a bad idea. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 06:42, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
:::Thxs and good night.--[[User:CoolPikachu!|'''☆Cool''']][[User talk:CoolPikachu!|'''ピカチ''']][[User Talk:CoolPikachu!/Archive 1|'''ュウ!''']] 06:49, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

== Explain ==

Could you explain to me how the new Platinum animation thing works? [[User: Tc26|'''tc''']][[User talk: Tc26|'''2''']][[Special: Contributions/Tc26|'''6''']] 09:39, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
:{{Ani|001}}. If you don't see it animating your browser's sucky (ie, IE). What we're planning is to make all of the Platinum spites do this as well, and eventually, the DP ones as well (don't worry, ###.png will stay as the static battlesprite).
:It's less a new animation thing and more a new way of getting the sprites to move. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 17:05, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

==Time roll over?==

Whats that time rollover thing on January 19th 2038 and our computrs crash, i dont gte it, whats that thing, why will it be negative?--[[User:David aipom|Davidaipom]] 17:11, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
:{{wp|Year 2038 problem}}. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 17:13, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
::Ahh Thankss =]--[[User:David aipom|Davidaipom]] 17:19, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
:::Wow, a new version of Y2K (albeit with actual scientific basis)? Quite interesting. I don't doubt that 29 years is more then enough time to find a fix, though... --[[user:Jioruji_Derako| '''J'''ïörüjï '''Ð'''ērākō.'''>''']][[user talk:Jioruji Derako|''.cнаt'''''^''']] 04:12, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
::::Yeah, pretty much. I mean, it was gonna happen eventually. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 04:15, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::Reminds me of the one episode of Futurama, where they have to deal with the giant ball of garbage Earth got rid of years before by launching into space. The fix involved making a bigger ball of garbage and launching it into space to deflect the first ball, but leaving the question, what happens when both balls of garbage eventually come back in a few thousand years? --[[user:Jioruji_Derako| '''J'''ïörüjï '''Ð'''ērākō.'''>''']][[user talk:Jioruji Derako|''.cнаt'''''^''']] 04:18, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
::::::Humanity for ya. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 04:29, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::: (in response to Geo) Who cares? That's a thousand years away! It's none of our concern. -- '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAG]][[User:MAGNEDETH#Interesting Stuff|NE]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|DETH]]''' 04:40, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::::Huh. That's kind of creepy.
:::::::Then again, I spent the summer working for a guy who was never in the office because he was preparing his cabin for the apocalypse... so I guess I should be used to it by now. --[[User:Martonimos|Martonimos]][[User talk:Martonimos|((Argh]]|[[Special:Contributions/Martonimos|Blargh))]] 07:10, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::::@ MAG: QFT. --[[user:Jioruji_Derako| '''J'''ïörüjï '''Ð'''ērākō.'''>''']][[user talk:Jioruji Derako|''.cнаt'''''^''']] 09:50, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

== {{p|Gligar}} ==

There's a problem in the tutoring moveset section, and I can't figure out the problem. Care to give it a shot? --[[User:Politoed666|ニョロトノ]][[User talk:Politoed666|''666'']] 22:21, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
:[[Template talk:Tutor]]. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 22:24, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

::The problem you said you'd fix tomorrow? However, {{p|Gligar}} is not a Gen III Pokémon... --[[User:Politoed666|ニョロトノ]][[User talk:Politoed666|''666'']] 22:26, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
:::It's broken on all Pokémon pages. The easiest to fix are Gen IV Pokémon. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 22:34, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

::::Anything I can help with tomorrow? Does it involve an insane amount of coding? --[[User:Politoed666|ニョロトノ]][[User talk:Politoed666|''666'']] 22:37, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::Only as much parameter pasting as anything else. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 22:38, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

== {{m|Dig}} ==

Why does the category say it's updated to Platinum standard when it clearly isn't? [[User:Flicky|Fli]][[User talk:Flicky|cky]][[User:Flicky/Latin|1991]] 09:06, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
:Because people are ''meant'' to do it all at once. The templates used categorize it so that when the category's no longer needed, it can be removed from the template, thus saving us from having to edit 467 pages again. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 09:08, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

::I tried to do as much as possible, but I really couldn't keep it up. Can someone finish this off? I know there's no shortage of people who check this page... [[User:Flicky|Fli]][[User talk:Flicky|cky]][[User:Flicky/Latin|1991]] 10:02, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
:::Alright, let me see how much I can do.--'''[[User:Diby|Di]]'''[[User talk:Diby|by]] 10:05, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

== I know you're busy... ==

But do you think you can take care of [[Template talk:Moveentry|this]] for me? I asked Politoed and Kenji, but I don't think they're on anymore. --[[User:Martonimos|Martonimos]][[User talk:Martonimos|((Argh]]|[[Special:Contributions/Martonimos|Blargh))]] 22:30, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
:...or just unprotect it long enough for me to do it myself. --[[User:Martonimos|Martonimos]][[User talk:Martonimos|((Argh]]|[[Special:Contributions/Martonimos|Blargh))]] 22:44, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
::Never mind, Kenji got it. --[[User:Martonimos|Martonimos]][[User talk:Martonimos|((Argh]]|[[Special:Contributions/Martonimos|Blargh))]] 23:05, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
:::Any more of those that don't have DP/Pt registered? '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 00:50, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
::::I don't think so, but I'll be sure to keep an eye out. --[[User:Martonimos|Martonimos]][[User talk:Martonimos|((Argh]]|[[Special:Contributions/Martonimos|Blargh))]] 01:00, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::Okay then. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 02:31, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

==Electabuzz==

The move tutor table on its page has been ''messed up'' if anyone would like to fix it, please do so. I cannot. Sorry.[[User:Monblazon|Monblazon]] 00:18, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
:There are only three Es, so I'll take them. --[[User:Martonimos|Martonimos]][[User talk:Martonimos|((Argh]]|[[Special:Contributions/Martonimos|Blargh))]] 00:32, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
::...you... missed the message from the editor. Didn't you. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 00:49, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
:::Whose message? Where? Why? How? Seriously though: Sorry...[[User:Monblazon|Monblazon]] 23:44, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
== Can u help ==

Can u help me identify characters whose articles M-i-a-b just created? I need descriptions because I am looking for a good pic for their articles.--[[User:Kuki|Kuki]][[User talk:Kuki|Talk]] 02:44, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
:...what now? Who? '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 03:06, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
He refers to [[User:Manga-in-a-bottle|this guy]], who has created many COD pages --[[User:Nick.|Nick.]] 03:13, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Manga in bottle created COD articles that just said "(Character name) is a COTD that appeared in (Episode name)" I need descriptions for those characters so I know who to look for when I search for pix to go w/ the articles--[[User:Kuki|Kuki]][[User talk:Kuki|Talk]] 03:14, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
:Oh.
:Well I honestly have no clue... you'll have to rewatch the episode... '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 04:00, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

== The ==

Hm? I think you might've misunderstood the reason I did it which I in turn misunderstand...whatever, I guess it's grammatically correct with or without "the".--[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 05:08, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
:Either way, it looks kinda dumb to just have the "the" there. The brains have their titles, kinda like [[Mr. Verich]], I'd say. The opening there isn't "The dude whose last name is '''Verich'''," it's just '''Mr. Verich'''. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 05:10, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

== New expansive project ==

There are a hell of a lot of uncategorized templates. Not laying blame on anyone, just stating a fact. I think that's a problem. Therefore, I plan on beginning what looks to be a fairly lengthly project tomorrow of categorizing all these templates. Like, all the AnimeInfobox templates would go under [[:Category:Anime Infobox templates]], which would in turn go under some other category, probably just plain old [[:Category:Templates]]. I'm not asking for any help, but I am wondering if it's alright if I go ahead and do that. Like, there's no reason those are uncategorized, is there? --[[User:Politoed666|ニョロトノ]][[User talk:Politoed666|''666'']] 22:33, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
:The answer is kind of...duh. They should have been categorized in the first place, and if you want to do that, feel free! ''[[User:Moldy orange|'''Moldy''']][[User talk:Moldy orange|'''Orange''']]'' 22:52, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

::Whatever you do, don't categorize [[Template:Character palette]]. That's been tried twice in the past, and both times it had to be de-categorized due to weird problems popping up while categorized. --[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 22:56, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

User talk:TTEchidna/Archive Sep 08 2

2008-09-14T00:18:16Z

Monblazon:

<center><big>'''ATTENTION'''</big> The lulz returns {{#ifexpr: ({{#time: z|September 15, 2008}} - {{#time: z}}) > 0|in {{#expr: {{#time: z|September 15, 2008}} - {{#time: z}}}} day{{#ifexpr: {{#time: z}} < {{#time: z|September 14, 2008}}|s}}!|today!}}</center>
{{:User:TTEchidna/Archive}}
{{:User:TTEchidna/Trades}}

Damn, and in less than fifteen days. You guys gotta bug me less.

== Hey buddy ==

you mad cuz i spam yer talk pagee. lol. No, actually, I was wondering if you'd care to update the rest of {{m|Rain Dance}} to Platinum standard. {{u|PsychicRider}} started it, but ran into computer problems and couldn't finish. As for why I don't do it myself, it's cause I fail epically at stuff that involves that much coding. Believe me, I would if I could. --[[User:Politoed666|ニョロトノ]][[User talk:Politoed666|''666'']] 00:26, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
:It's easy enough to do. Just look at the other moves like it. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 00:27, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

::Alright, I guess I'll give it a shot... --[[User:Politoed666|ニョロトノ]][[User talk:Politoed666|''666'']] 00:28, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
:::Can't hurt, besides, it's mostly just parameter replacement... And I have other Platinum things to update... '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 00:31, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

== Platinum Question ==

I'm trying to edit Eevee's location in Platinum but I can't.--[[User:CoolPikachu!|'''☆Cool''']][[User talk:CoolPikachu!|'''ピカチ''']][[User Talk:CoolPikachu!/Archive 1|'''ュウ!''']] 03:00, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
:ptrarity, ptarea. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 03:02, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
::Thxs.--[[User:CoolPikachu!|'''☆Cool''']][[User talk:CoolPikachu!|'''ピカチ''']][[User Talk:CoolPikachu!/Archive 1|'''ュウ!''']] 03:06, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
:Before I leave, I gotta remind you that every non-gen IV Pokemon that are NOT in the Sinnoh Dex keeps the same D/P sprite. DO the sprite table should be altered so that the platinum links link over to the d/p sprites...OR...you could waste server space and upload the pictures AGAIN...it's all up to what the people of Bulbapeida thinks. See Ya'!--[[User:Tavisource|☆Tavis]][[User talk:Tavisource|ource]] 05:56, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
::Meaning... Cyndaquil's Pt sprite is its DP sprite? Aw man...
::But is the animation the same? '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 06:05, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
:::Small chance it may.--[[User:CoolPikachu!|'''☆Cool''']][[User talk:CoolPikachu!|'''ピカチ''']][[User Talk:CoolPikachu!/Archive 1|'''ュウ!''']] 06:16, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
::::If it's not... we must have separate files. But we shall see about that as we get more data. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 06:24, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::Okay and BTW for these pages be redirected to the respective citys or make the page?--[[User:CoolPikachu!|'''☆Cool''']][[User talk:CoolPikachu!|'''ピカチ''']][[User Talk:CoolPikachu!/Archive 1|'''ュウ!''']] 06:27, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
* Tokiwa City (Zensho)
* Tamamushi City (Zensho)
* Sekiei Kougen (Zensho)
* Sekichiku City (Zensho)
* Nibi City (Zensho)
* Kuchiba City (Zensho)
* Hanada City (Zensho)
* Guren Town (Zensho)
::::::How are they different from their counterparts in the games, anime, and everything else? '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 06:28, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
:Not really sure.--[[User:CoolPikachu!|'''☆Cool''']][[User talk:CoolPikachu!|'''ピカチ''']][[User Talk:CoolPikachu!/Archive 1|'''ュウ!''']] 06:31, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
::Well I'd doubt they're much different at all, so redirecting them to their corresponding cities wouldn't be a bad idea. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 06:42, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
:::Thxs and good night.--[[User:CoolPikachu!|'''☆Cool''']][[User talk:CoolPikachu!|'''ピカチ''']][[User Talk:CoolPikachu!/Archive 1|'''ュウ!''']] 06:49, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

== Explain ==

Could you explain to me how the new Platinum animation thing works? [[User: Tc26|'''tc''']][[User talk: Tc26|'''2''']][[Special: Contributions/Tc26|'''6''']] 09:39, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
:{{Ani|001}}. If you don't see it animating your browser's sucky (ie, IE). What we're planning is to make all of the Platinum spites do this as well, and eventually, the DP ones as well (don't worry, ###.png will stay as the static battlesprite).
:It's less a new animation thing and more a new way of getting the sprites to move. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 17:05, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

==Time roll over?==

Whats that time rollover thing on January 19th 2038 and our computrs crash, i dont gte it, whats that thing, why will it be negative?--[[User:David aipom|Davidaipom]] 17:11, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
:{{wp|Year 2038 problem}}. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 17:13, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
::Ahh Thankss =]--[[User:David aipom|Davidaipom]] 17:19, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
:::Wow, a new version of Y2K (albeit with actual scientific basis)? Quite interesting. I don't doubt that 29 years is more then enough time to find a fix, though... --[[user:Jioruji_Derako| '''J'''ïörüjï '''Ð'''ērākō.'''>''']][[user talk:Jioruji Derako|''.cнаt'''''^''']] 04:12, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
::::Yeah, pretty much. I mean, it was gonna happen eventually. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 04:15, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::Reminds me of the one episode of Futurama, where they have to deal with the giant ball of garbage Earth got rid of years before by launching into space. The fix involved making a bigger ball of garbage and launching it into space to deflect the first ball, but leaving the question, what happens when both balls of garbage eventually come back in a few thousand years? --[[user:Jioruji_Derako| '''J'''ïörüjï '''Ð'''ērākō.'''>''']][[user talk:Jioruji Derako|''.cнаt'''''^''']] 04:18, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
::::::Humanity for ya. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 04:29, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::: (in response to Geo) Who cares? That's a thousand years away! It's none of our concern. -- '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAG]][[User:MAGNEDETH#Interesting Stuff|NE]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|DETH]]''' 04:40, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::::Huh. That's kind of creepy.
:::::::Then again, I spent the summer working for a guy who was never in the office because he was preparing his cabin for the apocalypse... so I guess I should be used to it by now. --[[User:Martonimos|Martonimos]][[User talk:Martonimos|((Argh]]|[[Special:Contributions/Martonimos|Blargh))]] 07:10, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::::@ MAG: QFT. --[[user:Jioruji_Derako| '''J'''ïörüjï '''Ð'''ērākō.'''>''']][[user talk:Jioruji Derako|''.cнаt'''''^''']] 09:50, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

== {{p|Gligar}} ==

There's a problem in the tutoring moveset section, and I can't figure out the problem. Care to give it a shot? --[[User:Politoed666|ニョロトノ]][[User talk:Politoed666|''666'']] 22:21, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
:[[Template talk:Tutor]]. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 22:24, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

::The problem you said you'd fix tomorrow? However, {{p|Gligar}} is not a Gen III Pokémon... --[[User:Politoed666|ニョロトノ]][[User talk:Politoed666|''666'']] 22:26, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
:::It's broken on all Pokémon pages. The easiest to fix are Gen IV Pokémon. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 22:34, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

::::Anything I can help with tomorrow? Does it involve an insane amount of coding? --[[User:Politoed666|ニョロトノ]][[User talk:Politoed666|''666'']] 22:37, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::Only as much parameter pasting as anything else. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 22:38, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

== {{m|Dig}} ==

Why does the category say it's updated to Platinum standard when it clearly isn't? [[User:Flicky|Fli]][[User talk:Flicky|cky]][[User:Flicky/Latin|1991]] 09:06, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
:Because people are ''meant'' to do it all at once. The templates used categorize it so that when the category's no longer needed, it can be removed from the template, thus saving us from having to edit 467 pages again. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 09:08, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

::I tried to do as much as possible, but I really couldn't keep it up. Can someone finish this off? I know there's no shortage of people who check this page... [[User:Flicky|Fli]][[User talk:Flicky|cky]][[User:Flicky/Latin|1991]] 10:02, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
:::Alright, let me see how much I can do.--'''[[User:Diby|Di]]'''[[User talk:Diby|by]] 10:05, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

== I know you're busy... ==

But do you think you can take care of [[Template talk:Moveentry|this]] for me? I asked Politoed and Kenji, but I don't think they're on anymore. --[[User:Martonimos|Martonimos]][[User talk:Martonimos|((Argh]]|[[Special:Contributions/Martonimos|Blargh))]] 22:30, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
:...or just unprotect it long enough for me to do it myself. --[[User:Martonimos|Martonimos]][[User talk:Martonimos|((Argh]]|[[Special:Contributions/Martonimos|Blargh))]] 22:44, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
::Never mind, Kenji got it. --[[User:Martonimos|Martonimos]][[User talk:Martonimos|((Argh]]|[[Special:Contributions/Martonimos|Blargh))]] 23:05, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

==Electabuzz==

The move tutor table on its page has been ''messed up'' if anyone would like to fix it, please do so. I cannot. Sorry.[[User:Monblazon|Monblazon]] 00:18, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Talk:Arceus (Pokémon)/Archive 1

2008-09-05T22:35:53Z

Monblazon: /* Arceus vs. Mew */

Um, {{u|TTEchidna}}, you put down that Arseus can become an ???-type Pokémon by holding a ??? Plate. Where'd you get that from?--[[User:Pokencyclopedia|Pokencyclopedia]] 21:35, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Man u have got to be kidding me Arceus catch rate should not be 3. I used my Action replay to get the item 4 arceus then i went and caought it on my 5th dusk ball. My friend caought it on him 1st ultra ball. Another friend i gave the item 2 caught it on his 2nd qiuck ball.
:Man, you have to be kidding me, you can't even spell the word "you" right. Arceus's catch rate is 3. If you'll notice, those balls multiply the catch rate formula by quite a bit, which greatly increases the chance to be caught. Plus, it's all on luck, I've had Magikarp break out of balls before. --'''[[User:TTEchidna|T]][[User talk:TTEchidna|T]][[wp:Echidna|Echidna]]''' 22:36, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

I added an alternative origin to Arceus's name that I found on: http://www.serebiiforums.com/showthread.php?t=286767.[[User:Draconium|Draconium]] 23:42, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

==Is there a point...==
Is there a point of having a table for each of the plates when it is attached to Arceus?
We could just have Arceus without a plate, and then have each title with an image and a sentence saying what type Arceus changes to.
For Example:

==Type effectiveness==
===No plate equipped===
{{DP type effectiveness|
type1=normal|
Normal= 100 |
Fighting=200 |
Flying= 100 |
Poison= 100 |
Ground= 100 |
Rock= 100 |
Bug= 100 |
Ghost= 0 |
Steel= 100 |

Fire= 100 |
Water= 100 |
Grass= 100 |
Electric=100 |
Psychic= 100 |
Ice= 100 |
Dragon= 100 |
Dark= 100 }}
[[Image:Spr 4d 493-Fire.png|thumb|right|Sprite for {{type2|Fire}} Arceus]]
===With Flame Plate===
When the Flame Plate is attached to Arceus, it becomes a Fire type.

etc... [[User:Tesh|Tesh]] 23:06, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

==Picture==
I have this picture:

[[Image:Arceus.PNG]]

I did not draw it. I want to use it on the page. It is much better than trying to stare at a tiny sprite. --[[User:Stinkoman|Stinkoman]] 15:08, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

:Better than a sprite for sure, but it'd be nice if we could find one without such bad compression artifacts. [[User:Invisible Shiny Bulbasaur|Invisible Shiny Bulbasaur]] 22:30, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
::I don't think we should really be using an unofficial image for the page. What would be nice is if somebody could get a nice, high-quality (as in NOT a photo of the monitor) screenshot of ARceus from PBR.--[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 01:22, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
:::You mean hack an Arceus and copy it into PBR?
[[Image:Psychic-attack.png|Psychic]][[Image:Ani475MS.gif]] '''[[User:Optimus35|Agent]] [[Gallade (Pokémon)|448]][[User talk:Optimus35|Talk]] | [[User:Optimus35/Diamond&Pearl|DP]]''' [[Image:Fighting-attack.png|Fighting]] 11:46, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

== Sprites? ==

Should we include separate sprite templates for all of the forms, or just do it for one? I know that Unown and Castform, among others, would serve the same problem. '''[[User:TTEchidna|T]][[User talk:TTEchidna|T]][[wp:Echidna|Echidna]]''' 22:10, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

== Art?! ==

I'd like to know the source of Arceus' picture. Mainly because it hasn't been revealed yet. TinaTheKirlia 02:44, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
:It's a piece of fanart. --[[User:DarkfireTaimatsu|DarkfireTaimatsu]] 02:47, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
::That's what I thought, although there was an edit that said "Official Art" or something and it was rather confusing. TinaTheKirlia 16:29, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
I think we should replace that art with a sprite. It seems inaccurate... Mariocaper 19:19, 20 September 2007

Yeah, and we could enlarge the size of the sprite so it won't be that tiny anymore, right? [[Image:Psychic-attack.png|Psychic]]http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/sprites/dpiconani/dpiconani475.gif '''[[User:Optimus35|Optimus35]][[User talk:Optimus35|Talk]] | [[User:Optimus35/Diamond&Pearl|DP]]''' [[Image:Fighting-attack.png|Fighting]] 06:45, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
:Enlarged sprites look terrible. --[[User:DarkfireTaimatsu|DarkfireTaimatsu]] 06:49, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
::Couldn't we get a PBR screenshot? And I mean a screenshot, not someone pointing their camera at a television? (We need that for Rosy and Sashay, too...)--[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 07:13, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
::I can't, my FRAPS only works on full screen games like Maple Story...I think we could take the Arceus photo, enlarge it and sharpen it a little, then put it back on bulba. The only problem with this is that the sprite would be oversize...
:::I hope that you have permission to use that piece of fan art. --[[Special:Contributions/Kenji-girl|☆]][[Tracey Sketchit|ケンジ]][[User:Kenji-girl|ガール]] 21:27, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
::::I've got five PBR shots. They're all in my [[User:Optimus35/Sandbox|sandbox]]. Click on the links under 'Arceus'. Tell me which one looks best on my talk page and I'll upload it onto Bulbagarden Archives...[[Image:Ani475MS.gif]] '''[[User:Optimus35|Agent]] [[User:Optimus35/Mission|4]][[User:Optimus35/Emerald|4]][[Gallade (Pokémon)|8]][[User talk:Optimus35|δ]] | [[User:Optimus35/Diamond&Pearl|DP]]''' | [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?limit=50&title=Special%3AContributions&contribs=user&target=Optimus35&namespace=0&year=&month=-1 ☆][[Image:Ani282MS.gif]] 09:01, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Change the pic!
[[User:Crystallucario|Crystallucario]] 14:54, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
:The reason why we're not changing it is because it's nicely done fanart, and it's more easier to look at this instead of a sprite.
:Otherwise it'd be absolute hell for me to draw Arceus. Still is, but certainly more easier than looking at a sprite. :p [[User:Tina|Tina]] [[Special:Contributions/Tina|δ]][[User talk:Tina|♫]] 16:40, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
hmmm maybe ok whatever...
[[User:Crystallucario|CrystalLucario 12:23, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
::...except, do we have permission to use the image? The image page doesn't seem to claim it at all, so I'm going to go ahead and guess that we're doing something illegal or at least unethical here. Seriously, why can't we just use a PBR shot?[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 00:58, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
:::Since when was pokemon ever ethical? Think about it, the aim of the game is to run away from home at 10 years old (good parenting skills mom) and after having abuse a poor little starly to the brink of death by slashing it over and over again with false swipe you throw something at it, only adding to the poor creature's pain and torture only to trap it inside a small, cramped chamber for the rest of its unnatural life whilst using it to abuse other pokemon. But anyways I digress, the point is the piece of fanart looks nice, is accurate and fits in perfectly with all the official pokemon artwork. Hell when I first visited the page I thought it WAS a piece of official artwork. A PBR snapshot would not be at all as effective as the fanart. So no, we ain't havin a PBR shot. [[User:Wikid|Wikid]] 16:20, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

::::No one is questioning the ethics of the series, just in using someone else's work without their consent. Besides, the face is drawn wrong. There should be more lines running across it. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 16:28, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Metronome ==

My Mew used Judgement through Metronome. Should I include something like this under "Trivia":

Although Nintendo is attempting to keep Arceus secret, it is possible for Arceus's signature move, {{m|Judgment}}, to be used through {{m|Metronome}}, thus potentially revealing the existence of Arceus to otherwise unaware fans.

--[[User:Shiny Noctowl|Shiny Noctowl]][[User talk:Shiny Noctowl|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Shiny Noctowl|Contribs]][[Image:Ani480MS.gif]] 20:33, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

i could draw arceus if that would help. i like drawing pokémon. [[talonclawz]] new comer!!!!!!!!!! [[Image:Ani444MS.gif‎]]

== Shishigami? ==

Should any mention of the Forest Spirit Shishigami from Miyazaki Hayao's Mononoke-Hime be mentioned in the article? Arceus seems to have a resemblance to Shishigami. In addition, on the illegal hacked Pokémon Diamond (Telefang Power), Shishigami appears on the front, despite not having anything to do with the game (that's the way those criminals work), and then in the real Pokémon Diamond, Arceus was added. Does anyone else think that some trivia should be added about this? ~Kumori Satosuke
:Outside of the whole quadrupedal thing, I don't think there's anything else that's official to suggest a connection. For example, Arceus seems to be nothing outside of a creator, while shishigami is given dominion over life and death.--[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 03:27, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
::Yes, I agree. There really isn't anything linking the two other than a vague (And I do mean VAGUE.) resemblance. --[[User:Dual|Dual]] 14:15, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

== ??? type sprite may prevent crash ==
Just a theory, but the programmers at Game Freak may have drawn and programmmed a ??? type Arceus to prevent game crashes. Anyone with a code patcher can figure out how to change a Pokémon's type. They might have figured that someone would tamper with Arceus's type, and if they changed it to a ??? type, and there was no sprite for it, the game would crash because it would try loading data that does not exist. That's my theory anyway. [[User:Fsilone|Fsilone]] 02:10, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
:That's really logical. figure that by yourself? But I still don't know if we should put that in the article.[[Image:Ani471MS.gif]][[User:Pokemaniac102|'''Poke''''''maniac''''''102''']][[Image:AniEggMS.gif]] 02:17, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

::im a little iffy on the grammer, but other than that i think its a fantastic theory and should be in the trivia section. excellent. now all i need to do is figure out how to do it myself in my game with the Action Replay... [[Image:Ani081MS.gif|35px]][[User:MAGNEDETH|MAGNEDETH]][[Image:Ani082MS.gif|35px]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|TALK]][[Image:Ani462MS.gif|35px]] 02:30, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

:::You can't - you need to edit the rom data - action replay only edits temporary and save data. Think so anyway. '''[[:User:Origamiguy|折り紙ガイ]] - [[:User_talk:Origamiguy|離す]][[:Special:Contributions/Origamiguy|貢献]]''' 15:37, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

I think I don't see anything grammatically wrong. I copied the words above and reworded it into sentences.[[Image:Ani471MS.gif]][[User:Pokemaniac102|'''Poke''''''maniac''''''102''']][[Image:AniEggMS.gif]] 02:34, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

:yea, im probibly wrong, im not joking when i say i failed english class......twice...with a 54..... [[Image:Ani081MS.gif|35px]][[User:MAGNEDETH|MAGNEDETH]][[Image:Ani082MS.gif|35px]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|TALK]][[Image:Ani462MS.gif|35px]] 03:42, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

what the heck is shishigami? is it a pokémon?(someone out there?) [[-talonclawz]] new comer!!!!! [[Image:212MS.gif]] 1:06, 5 April 2008

No. Wait a minute if you don't know that Errr...how new are you to Pokémon?[[User:Crystallucario|'''''Crystal''''']] [[User talk:Crystallucario|'''''Lucario''''']] 17:43, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

A shishigami is a Japanese god of death. [[User:LordKaien|LordKaien]] 14:51, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

== {{type2|???}} Sprite ==

[[Image:Question-Type Arceus Before.jpg|thumb|left|Before]][[Image:Question-Type Arceus After.jpg|thumb|right|After]]How long has the sprite of ???-type Arceus been pulling that vanishing act? Basically, the only time you can see the sprite is when the white background on PNG-format images is still visible, as seen in the Before shot. Once the white backgrounds vanish, the rest of the sprite should still be there. However, on ???-type Arceus, the sprite vanishes along with the background, as seen in the After shot. Is there a way to fix this?

(The shots in question come from an area of my own user page, specifically a [[Template:User Favorite Move|favorite move tag]] programmed for a ???-type move and {{m|Curse}} with the Arceus sprite in question for a laugh. The [[Template:User 2000|2000-edits in a month tag]] above it is also shown for comparison.) --[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 05:41, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

:Wow. That's weird that it just disappears! --[[Image:Spr 3e 059.gif|70px]][[Image:Spr 3e 132.gif]]'''[[User:Theryguy512|Theryguy]][[User:Theryguy512/Contribution Page|5]][[User:Theryguy512/Mission Page|1]][[User:Theryguy512/Sandbox|2]]''' [[Image:Trozeiani025.gif]] 11:59, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
I think I figured out the vanishing act. It's due to the filename. Many operating systems don't allow question marks in filenames, and it's probably due to those that caused the image to vanish. I went and uploaded an image to [[a:Image:Spr 4d 493-Unknown.png|Image:Spr 4d 493-Unknown.png]] on the archives, and that image works as it should! Every instance of the vanishing image has been changed to the one that doesn't vanish, so you won't be seeing vanishing ???-type Arceus again anytime soon. --[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 16:37, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

== Pic ==

Okay, I remember {{u|Urutapu}} saying something about a screenshot of Arceus from PBR. Well, I got a Wii ''and'' PBR for Christmas. And I have *cough*cheated*cough* four Arceuses. All I need now is a good-quality emulator that can screenshot my Wii with. Any suggestions?
--{{u|Stinkoman}}

Somehow theres a way of putting a SCART socket into your PC and running it through that. My mate's computer can do that but i think it had the socket when he bought it. [[Image:Ani258MS.gif]][[User:Origamiguy|OrigamiGuy]] Lieks [[Mudkip (Pokémon)|Mudkipz]][[Image:Ani258MS.gif]]

== Officially been revealed ==
Until this Pokemon has been officially revealed (by Nintendo or Coro Coro magazine) this page should be removed, because the only reason why there is proof of its existence is through a hacking or cheating device.
:WHAT! This page should be included on here. If it is in the Game, weather or not if it has been reaveled, it IS STILL IN THE GAME WITHOUT HAVING TO BE MADE{{Ani|493}}[[User:Darth Cookie Monster|'''C ''']]{{Ani|491}}[[User talk:Darth Cookie Monster|''' Is''']]{{Ani|426}}[[User:Darth Cookie Monster/My Story|'''for Cookie''']]{{Ani|473}}
::Yea, this page is about a Pokémon. In case you don't know (hopefully you do), this is a Pokémon encyclopedia. This page is like mandatory. --'''[[User:Theryguy512|Theryguy]][[User talk:Theryguy512|5]][[User:Theryguy512/Contribution Page|1]][[User:Theryguy512/Similarities|2]]''' 02:12, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
:::Exactly. We have pages for all Pokémon ''officially programmed into the games''. Would you come here before Deoxys was revealed and say "NUH UH THERE'S ONLY 201 IN HOENN DEOXYS IS A HAKKER ONLY POKEMAN." Arceus is official, they're just holding off on the official revelation. Besides... plenty of Pokémon from each generation were never revealed through CoroCoro or by Nintendo individually. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]][[Image:Ani155MS.gif|Fire echy]]''' 07:07, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

I may only be 10, but take it from me. Arceus is real. It is on pokemon.com's pokedex.[[User:DaPikanator56|DaPikanator56]] 18:47, 22 March 2008 (UTC){{u|DaPikanator56}}
:Well, actually, it's not on the PokéDex on [[Pokemon.com]], but yes, it is real. --'''[[User:Theryguy512|Theryguy]][[User talk:Theryguy512|5]][[User:Theryguy512/Contribution Page|1]][[User:Theryguy512/Similarities|2]]''' 13:17, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
::An example of what TTE said would be the Porygons. '''<sc>[[User:Optimus35|{{tt|Optimatum♏|Optimus35}}]]</sc>[[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|♊]]02:32 30 Mar 2008'''

Oh yeah! It and ummm... {{p|Shaymin}} I think aren't Theryguy.[[User:DaPikanator56|DaPikanator56]] 18:52, 30 March 2008 (UTC){{u|DaPikanator56}}
:Shaymin has been acknowledged by official Japanese sources. And to address the original point, we are not Wikipedia. Everyone knows that Arceus is real, so this page is a necessity. Hell, we have articles for a lot of glitch Pokémon so a real one definately passes. --[[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] [[User talk:Fabu-Vinny|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Fabu-Vinny|C]]-[[User:Fabu-Vinny/Sandbox|S]] 23:52, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

True...Oh, and by the way, in the summer I will shorten my visits here, but this place rules! It ain't demented like Chuckie Cheese's.
:) ^-^[[User:DaPikanator56|DaPikanator56]] 22:31, 3 April 2008 (UTC)DaPikanator56

==Picture==

I found this picture interesting, but low quality. [http://www.pokebeach.com/news/0507/arceus.jpg its on www.pokebeach.com] --[[User:Britannia's Blade|Britannia's Blade]] 21:25, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
:Good find, but it's already linked from the article [[Arceus (Pokémon)#External links|right here]]. --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 23:38, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

------------
I also just found this one [http://www.arkeis.com/images/pokemonfactory/arceus.png ****] Fan art of course but very serious looking, Lots more like it [http://www.arkeis.com/legendaries.htm here] what do you think? --[[User:Britannia's Blade|Britannia's Blade]] 18:47, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
:I don't see how fanart is very notable to put up here.. >_> [[User:Tina|Tina]] [[Special:Contributions/Tina|δ]][[User talk:Tina|♫]] 19:06, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
::The one we have right now will do us until Arcy is revealed next year. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 20:37, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
:::What about this one? - [http://www.pokebeach.com/news/0507/arceus2.jpg (1)] '''[[:User:Origamiguy|折り紙ガイ]] - [[:User_talk:Origamiguy|離す]][[:Special:Contributions/Origamiguy|貢献]]''' 15:45, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
::::-Gasp- Why not that one! Ooo, take it! TAKE IT!!! '''[[User:Optimus35|<sc>Optimatum</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''13:53 2 May 2008'''''
TTE, Arceus isn't going 2 be revealed 4 two years yet. [[User:LordKaien|LordKaien]] 14:53, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

==Arceus and Giratina==
Aren't Arceus and Giratina sort of opposites of each other because Arceus is God and Giratina is the devil sort of, I mean Arceus didn't create Giratina so that means they were the two entities before time started. [[User:Big Johnno|Pokémon Master]] 17:46 15 May 2008
:Maybe you're right, but i think that Giratina is part of the Dragon Trio. [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 23:37, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
::Giratina is the BOSS! It saved the two other Pokamon! Posted by the '''[[User:Optimus35|<sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''01:04 17 May 2008'''''
:Hold on, there's no reason to get angry. Why can't we just WAIT until Arceus is officially revealed? Isn't that BETTER than argueing? [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 23:37, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

In my eyes it would be

Dialga + Palkia = Rivals (Time VS Space)

Giratina + Arceus = Rivals (God VS Darkness?)

So yeah, regardless of the fact Giratina is part of the Dragon Trio.
(''Thinking about it, those four are exactly the same as my characters |: Lily = Controls Time. Darkness = Controls Space. Akito = Controls Death. Rose = Controls Life/Is a sort-of God. But anyway, my characters are irrelevant too this xD'') [[User:Takoto|Takoto タコト]]| サソデイ = 愛 14:37, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
:So, Arceus is God/JesusHoly Spirit, and Giratina is Satan? O.O It's Da '''[[User:Optimus35|<sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''06:03 26 May 2008'''''
::Arceus is Arceus. Giratina is Giratina. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 07:02, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
:::Meh, that's the Atheist way of seeing it. Hey, wait, am I about to be stone for being anti-atheist? Damn. It's Da '''[[User:Optimus35|<sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''07:13 26 May 2008'''''
::::I didn't say Giratina was Satan, i simply said he was...darkness. [[User:Takoto|Takoto タコト]]| サソデイ = 愛 02:05, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
My question is, how do you KNOW Giratina is bad, or if Arceus is even good? How do you KNOW Giratina wasn't created by Arceus? You don't. Besides, Neither ot them are from Christianity, and U know what? I'm a devout Christian and I don't care if Arceus wasn't based off of my God. [[User:LordKaien|LordKaien]] 14:56, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
:Does anybody want to see it this way, "WE SHOULD ALL JUST WAIT"? [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 22:06, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
::I don't think Giratina is evil. You don't have too be evil/whatever to control darkness/whatever Giratina controls. I do not think Giratina is evil! [[User:Takoto|Takoto タコト]]| サソデイ = 愛 22:22, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
:Is this text INVISIBLE? WE SHOULD ALL JUST WAIT! [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 00:28, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
::Thank you, good people of bulbapedia, for waiting. [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 00:57, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

== More sprites ==

Ok, so we have all the type sprites for Arceus and it's shiny sprite, but we don't have shiny forms for Arceus' other types. Could someone please tell me if it's possible to get those sprites and if so get them for us? [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 12:08, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
:If i could, i would, but i can't, so i can't help you. I'm not even 100% sure Arceus's other-type sprites HAVE shiny versions of them :| [[User:Takoto|Takoto タコト]]| サソデイ = 愛 14:27, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
::They do. And a simple method is to color the sprites the right color. The white portion of the body is the only part which remains constant throughout the non-shiny forms. and when it becomes shiny, the rings are the same color as those of the non-shiny ones. The only thing that differs between non-shiny and shiny is the white portion, which turns yellow. It's Da '''[[User:Optimus35|<sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''06:01 26 May 2008'''''
:So... could you do that for us as a favor? [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 22:02, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
::I might have those sprites on my computer somewhere. Want me to upload them? [[User:Yinyang1195|Yin]][[User talk:Yinyang1195|Yang]] 20:05, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
:Why don't you recolor them...it will be easy.--[[User:Tavisource|☆Tavis]][[User talk:Tavisource|ource]] 00:49, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
::I dont no how... [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 00:54, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
:Hmm...I would do it, but I'm very busy right now, you could go ask hcfx2 for help, he's great at recoloration.--[[User:Tavisource|☆Tavis]][[User talk:Tavisource|ource]] 00:57, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
:Nevermind, i found them on "a:Catagory:Arceus". But thanks :) [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 01:11, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

== Metronome and Judgement ==

If a player knows nothing about Arceus, how would they know that Judgement is its signature attack? Even if it is used by a Pokémon using Metronome. So could Metronome really spoil the surprise? ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 02:50, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
:Not really. ^^; Metronome can do ANYTHING. Even Explosion so...'''[[User:Optimus35|It's the <sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''02:54 4 Jun 2008'''''
::Well, if they were like "Ooh, what learns that?!" and can't find anyone, they'll suspect it to be some crazy legendary not yet shown. And have lived under a rock since EVERYONE KNOWS OF ARCEUS. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 03:03, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
:::Hmm, then Singapore must be under a rock. Only two people I know know what's Arceus, that includes me. '''[[User:Optimus35|It's the <sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''03:12 4 Jun 2008'''''
::::Or this is nintendo's way of teasing us. kinda like,
Player:"What pokémon learns this?"
Nintendo:"Wait and see"
Player:"You suck."[[User:LordKaien|LordKaien]] 12:39, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

I only ask because of this quote in the trivia:

"''Although Nintendo is attempting to keep Arceus secret, it is possible for Arceus's signature move, Judgment, to be used through Metronome, thus potentially revealing the existence of Arceus to otherwise unaware fans.''"

Plus, Nintendo ''has'' to know that the majority of their fanbase uses the internet. Every Pokémon website except the "official" ones have info on Arceus. A lot of them even before the games were released globally. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 15:57, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
:The majority of the fanbase are kids who don't necessarily visit fansites. --[[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] |[[User talk:Fabu-Vinny|Talk Page]]| 16:02, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
::No ([[User:MathijsP|MathijsP]] 16:03, 4 June 2008 (UTC))
:::Yes. --[[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] |[[User talk:Fabu-Vinny|Talk Page]]| 16:04, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
::::No ([[User:MathijsP|MathijsP]] 16:05, 4 June 2008 (UTC))

:::::I would have to disagree with that statement. I believe that most fans may have been kids at the beginning when Pokémon first came out, but now have grown as the series has. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 16:18, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

A similar thing happened to me when I was playing PBR. I ordered my Togepi to use Metronome and out came Judgment. I wondered what Pokémon used this move until I checked this site and I found Arceus. I didn't even know about its existence AT ALL when Metronome was used that one year ago... {{ani|385}}[[User:BlueJirachi|BlueJirachi]] 18:01, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

== Arceus's pattern in the anime? ==

I didn't get a second look (mainly because I deleted the episode from my DVR), but I heard in the episode "Journey to the Unknown!" that Saturn was holding a cube with Arceus's pattern on it... [[User:ShinyRayquaza|ShinyRayquaza]] 19:35, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

== Arceus + Sky Plate? ==

If you attach a Sky Plate to Arceus, wouldn't that make it become the first pure Flying-type Pokémon? [[User:Wynautluvr|Wynautluvr]] 16:53, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

:It is the first "permanent" pure Flying-type. The Porygon line can become Flying-types with their Conversion moves, and Kecleon can with its Color Change Ability. These Pokémon, however, revert back to Normal when the battle is over. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 18:56, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

::It's not permanent, in that you can change the plate and it loses the pure-flying status... '''[[:User:Origamiguy|Lord]] of [[:User_talk:Origamiguy|Ori]][[Special:Contributions/Origamiguy|gami]]''' 15:16, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
:::It's permanent in that it doesn't go away just because the battle ends. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 21:46, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
::::No its not. Its only a permanent flying type if its natural type (i.e. no plate) is flying. You might as well say its also the first permamnent ??? type since it can become that (potentially) too.[[User:Wikid|Wikid]] 16:43, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

:::::If you never remove the plate, then it's permanent. Plus, you can't obtain a ???-type Arceus in-game in any normal fashion. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 16:45, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

:::::: Says you. firstly, the word permanent implies that the typing can never be changed. If you unequip the plate Arceus goes back to normal therefore it's not permanent. At best I would say its semi-permament. Secondly, there might a ??? plate given out at an event or found somewhere in platinum like Glacidia's flower. ??? forme arceus might be the result when you enter the torn world with arceus. It might even be what Arceus looks like when it is a shadow pokemon as there might be a new game coming out to do with shadow pokemon and DPP might be the first generation where you can trade shadow pokemon over. Therefore if you can trade it as shadow poke between DP and platinum then there is a way to get an ??? forme Arceus in a normal fashion.[[User:Wikid|Wikid]] 17:21, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Fine. "Semi-permanent". ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 17:24, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== The ??? Plate ==

The ??? Plate exists, It is named mysterious plate by CodeJunkies, It may also be encountered in the underground as a Malfunction, people got this (like my brother) and attached it to ARCEUS, making the ??? type, no weaknesses are found on this type--[[User:M.vit|M.vit]] 00:10, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
:Believe me, people code-spelunk like there's no tomorrow...there isn't such thing.--[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 00:10, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

can M.vit at least tell how did his brother encounter such a plate, and how does it function with other Pokémon?and what happens to a Pokémon who knows the move [[curse]]

can somebody edit this article . It says that Arceus creted the Pokémon Universe,''Dragon trio'' and lake trio. Till now the dragon trio isn't officially confirmed. so whether I or somebody else should change the Dragon trio to the time-space duo: Dialga and Palkia.--[[User:Nobody777|Nobody777]] 13:56, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

well, seems that nobody is out of topic, BTW, i have seem to find this code in Code Junkies here it is
Mysterious Plate x999
94000130 fcff0000
b21c4d28 00000000
b0000004 00000000
00000890 03e70133
d2000000 00000000--[[User:M.vit|M.vit]] 16:55, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

:The plates all have different names on CodeJunkies which are the translated Japenese names. I believe the Mysterious Plate is actually the Mind Plate. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 17:13, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
::Your right, it is the mind plate. '''{{Colored link|:User:Origamiguy|ff8000|Lord}} of {{Colored link|:User_talk:Origamiguy|ff8000|Ori}}{{Colored link|Special:Contributions/Origamiguy|ff8000|gami}}''' 16:45, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

==type change==

Keckleons ability color change changes its type according to the move done by the opponent so if ???-type arceus used judjement, will it change its type? can anyone experiment?--[[User:Nobody777|Nobody777]] 13:21, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

:The fact that you can't get a ??? plate makes it difficult to say. I have no idea what would happen...♪♪[[User:ShinyPachirisu|Shiny]] [[User Talk:ShinyPachirisu|Pachirisu]] :) ♪♪ 13:23, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

::???-type moves have been hacked and have no effect. So Kecleon would probably be unaffected. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 13:39, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
:::Actually, they do have an effect... they just deal minimal damage. Lemme see what it does in Gen III later on... '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 23:41, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Pal Park]] ==

Will it really freeze the game when you put Arceus infront of the party and bla bla bla to the Pal Park?
[[User:Palkia38|Palkia38]] 03:48, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

== Now... ==

Isn't what I did so freaking cool? I mean, look at it. And the best thing is that it is totally dependent on the ''exact second'' that you save/access the page. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 07:32, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
:A fine template, indeed. Would it be useful to use something like this to generate random examples in paragraphs?
:P.S.: What you did (a calculation based on a clock) is even a good idea for a new ability or move in the game that picks a random type. --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 07:53, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
::Now if we only had the backsprites for the various forms...--[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 22:49, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
:::Two clock-based calculations would make it even more random. Watch this. {{#expr: ({{#time: U}} div {{#time: s}}) mod 9002}} {{#ifexpr: (({{#time: U}} div {{#time: s}}) mod 9002) > 9000|<big>'''← IT'S OVER 9000!!!'''</big>}}
:::As for random examples... hmm... Well, what are you thinking?
:::And I wish for the backsprites, too... And the minisprite, does it change with Arceus? '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 22:58, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

==Arceus in My Pokémon Ranch==
For a fact,someone in the German forum BisaBoard got Arceus as one of the daily Pokémon!This person was -like me- totally dumbfounded and opened that thread to know more about this phenomena.
I've asked some expert in the same message board if this would be really possible.To my surprise,he said that he checked the programme code and Arceus is really included!I think this MUST be put into the Trivia section.[[User:Uxie legend|Uxie legend]]

:How does one check the program code of a Wii Ware title? And of course Arceus would be there, it can be deposited just like any other Pokémon. Plus, I ''doubt'' that Hayley will trade you an Arceus... ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 16:02, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

::Might be wrong, but I believe there is a set list of Pokémon Hayley will only trade off, which was found and released in dr_nza's FAQ found [http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/wii/file/943658/53074 here]. The Pokémon Hayley brings are random, so I guess Arceus is a possibility, but Hayley won't be able to trade it off. - [[User:Legotim|█╬▓◘ ’M █╚▓█ (ţś_łєğǿŧΐм)]] [[User talk:Legotim|spreche]] 05:06, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

==Hmmm....==
Should we add that Arceus is the most hacked Pokemon? Every hacker I know owns a Arceus ''and'' all its plates. [[User:Strong Intelligent|Strong Intelligent]]
:No. tc26 14:03, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
::I own all the plates too. I got them underground. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 22:46, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

:::I spent so much time underground that I have more than one of each plate. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 03:22, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

== Church? ==

{{u|Sui}} keeps adding an external link to "The Church of Arceus." I'm wondering whether or not this is notable enough, or if it's just an advertisement for an obscure fansite. I don't know anything, so you guys be the judges. --[[User:Martonimos|Martonimos]][[User talk:Martonimos|((Argh]]|[[Special:Contributions/Martonimos|Blargh))]] 21:59, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

== Ūber? ==

If [[Arceus]] isn't offically reveiled, how can it be called Ūber? Can't spell.

☆ShinyPiKa 19:17, 8 August 2008 (UTC)☆
:Well, some people hack into their games and can get Arceus that way. So they know that way. ...I really dunno [[User:Takoto|Takoto タコト]]| サソデイ = 愛 19:22, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

::His stats put him in the league of the strongest Pokemon of all, so he's safe to call that. [[User:Toastypk|'''''~Toastypk''''']] - [[User_Talk:Toastypk|'''Loom.''']] 19:28, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

::: Although that is true, it isn't revealed yet so it can't be under that catagory '''yet'''. It's been annoying me, please remove it. ShinyPiKa 19:58, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

:::It's being used, and people are able to--gasp, shocker--read its stats! And, since its stats (and movepool, for that matter) are pretty decent, it can be classified as "uber," despite it being revealed or not. --'''[[User:Gabbie|gabbie]]''' | '''[[User_talk:Gabbie|talk]]''' 21:07, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

:::: But people still use Arceus on Wi-Fi. Darkrai and Shaymin were in and are still in the UBER tier so why should Arceus be any different?--[[User:Blazevoir|Blaz]][[User talk:Blazevoir|evoir]] 20:59, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

::::: Because it hasn't been revealed yet !!! :D ShinyPiKa 22:23, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
::::::You cant use Arceyus in the battle tower. [[User:MathijsP|MathijsP]] 09:30, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
::::::: Please remove [[Arceus]] from the Ūber secion 4 now, when its reveaaled u can add it back.ShinyPiKa 15:00, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
:::::::: Why? Every other website considers it ÜBER. Why should Bulba be any different?--[[User:Blazevoir|Blaz]][[User talk:Blazevoir|evoir]] 15:08, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::Because people think Nintendo will kill us for actually taking note of their stuff before they officially reveal them. Unlike Platinum's existence before May 15, though, it can be proven that Arceus exists. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 17:21, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Arceus vs. Mew ==

This is all that Mew's Pokédex entries say:

*Because it can use all kinds of moves, many scientists believe Mew to be the ancestor of Pokémon.
*Mew is said to possess the genetic composition of all Pokémon.
*Because it can learn any move, some people began research to see if it is the ancestor of all Pokémon.

First off, this kind of stuff didn't appear until Silver. Second off, it is ''very'' couched in uncertainty, and it is ''never'' said that its actually been shown to possess every type of DNA - ''only that its ability to perform any move has generated that rumor''.

Second off, several Pokémon are completely artificial, such as {{p|Grimer}}/{{p/Muk}}, {{p|Castform}}, or {{p|Porygon}}/{{p|Porygon2}}/{{p|Porygon-Z}}. So, how could Mew be considered their "ancestor", or have their DNA, if its supposed to be the "first Pokemon"? Wouldn't having the DNA of Pokemon who appeared completely separate from any genetic lineage instead imply Mew was their descendant?

Porygon is even said to be "A Pokémon that consists entirely of programming code." So, no DNA at all, and its upgrades are said to simply have had AI installed.

Even allowing for the monstrously egregious interpretations of genetics in the series, the idea that having all the DNA of a group makes you its ancestor is hogwash - its entirely the other way around.

Now, lets look at Arceus, and its info.
*It is told in mythology that this Pokémon was born before the universe even existed.
*It is described in mythology as the Pokémon that shaped the universe with its 1,000 arms.
* "Two beings of time and space set free from the Original One."
* "Three beings were born to bind time and space."
* "Two make matter and three make spirit, shaping the world."
* "The Original One breathed alone before the universe came."

Now, this is ''much'' more explicit than the Mew bit '''ever''' was. It makes it absolutely clear that Arceus came ''before even the universe itself, much less other Pokémon'', and that it in fact created the world and life itself. Once could claim that this is uncertain do to its status as "mythology", but that would be hilariously in denial of how the series has used mythology so far - as an origin story, not as something by definition uncertain or false.

How is there even a dispute about this? If it's a retcon at all, it's a fairly small one - it was clear from the beginning that the bit about Mew being the origin had a contradictory explanation.

Now, what could work is that Mew is supposed to be god-like like Arceus and other Legendaries - in this case, it would logically be some scion of life, which would in fact explain its design. If the bit about Mew containing all other DNA turned out to be "true", in the context of the franchise, then this would also make much more sense than the pseudo-scientific jargon used in Silver - Mew contains the DNA because it is the ultimate personification of life/birth, and the scientists are trying to force a contradictory explanation for the oddity in order to deny its true, supernatural origin.

So can we please stop claiming things like the D/P Pokedex "still stating that it's the ancestor of all pokémon", or that "it's no different than people believing Arceus is the creator"? [[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 06:14, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
:Creationism vs science? In my Pokémon? It's more likely than you think! '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 06:30, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

::ummm... "Uncertain", If I recall correctly, it can learn "Transform", which, unless I'm mistaken, involves the recombination of it's own DNA to match said pokemon that transforms. And, since Ditto's Pokédex entry hints that how it transforms involves it recombining it's DNA to match the pokémon it's trying to match, the same can easily be said for Mew. So, really, considering how it knows transform, and it can transform into a lot of pokémon, even legendaries that were supposedly created before it, it still has merit in regards to having the DNA of all pokémon, and thus being the ancestor of all pokémon.

::As for the Porygon/2/z example, considering the mere fact that Mew can transform into these three pokémon DESPITE apparantly not having their DNA, I think that those Pokémon have a miniscule amount of Mew's DNA (otherwise, how can Ditto [Or mew, for that matter] transform into them?].). Besides, just because they are composed entirely of AI (whether it's the free will kind or not doesn't matter) doesn't mean it can't have DNA. Take the Mega Man series (specifically, the Mega Man X subseries through the Mega Man ZX series.), the Reploids were mentioned to be complete Machines (all derived from X's design), and yet the games also mentions that they have DNA (Reploid "DNA" was used to form the Nightmare Virus, and also revive Necromances III, Harumachine, Blizzard Staggoff, and Copy X. Plus, Axl's ability involves him mimicking his enemies (and in the case of Command Mission and [Technically] ZX advent, even bosses.).

::And anyways, Mew can also transform into Grimer, Muk, and Castform, which, if Mew didn't have their DNA, then how can Mew OR Ditto even transform into them?

::Also, about it's pokedex entries, both of them contradict themselves. I mean, one says that it was born before the universe existed, and yet, the other hints that it was born a little while AFTER the Universe was created, and that all IT did was merely "shape" the universe. Plus, it doesn't even HAVE 1,000 arms in its sprite, and not only that, but It also apparantly can't even learn any attacks involving arms, such as all of the punch variants.

::as for the origin book, that ALSO doesn't mention Giratina (yet, anyways, for all we know, Platinum could add it in.), and plus, that same thing hinted that Dialga and Palkia are two halves of Arceus, but then, why cant they merge together (I mean, Dragon Quest, and Mephiles the Dark could do it without much trouble from programming data, so why cant D/P)?

::and anyways, the legends also hinted that Legendaries can't be captured by mere mortals, yet most of the crime syndicates, the Pyramid King and even the protagonist has been wielding these pokemon as if they were nothing.

::That's my ruling as to how the thing isn't retconned (well, that, as well as the fact that, if it was, then wouldn't they have removed the entry from the Pokédex?) [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 10:49, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

lets remember that game physics are different from animé physics. Dialga, Palkia and giratina symbolise physics of the Pokémon world: time, space and dimensions,so if Arceus is the master of them that wouldn't make sense:creationism and science don't go together. Mew can transform its appearance, but not the nature or unique functions of a Pokémon, and if we follow good sense we can also say that it can't copy Pokémon which evolved in a special way because their not ''original'' like trading its bioligical fusion of item and Pokémon DNA.--[[User:Nobody777|Nobody777]] 12:40, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

:I'm pretty sure that it can copy even those that evolved in a "special" way in even the Anime. Remember, Weavile evolves from Sneasel via the Sharp Claw item, which also fits under the special way, and despite that, Mew STILL transformed into that pokemon in the Lucario Movie. If it can evolve through something like that, I'm pretty certain that it is even ancestral to those pokemon who evolve via special means. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 13:50, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
:::Wait, '''''what?''''' You're saying that ''because it can do something that '''Ditto''' can do'', it must be the ancestor of all Pokemon? Wouldn't this also require Ditto to be the ancestor of all Pokemon?
:::'''Porygon''': Then you are making up things contradictory to the established in-game facts in order to force in your own fan-theory. Almost every Pokedex entry for the Porygon line reiterates that they have NOTHING but programming code.
:::'''MegaMan X''': It is never, ''ever'' stated that the robots are "completely mechanical" - that they have souls, DNA, and can merge with living things pretty much makes that theory impossible. DNA is a very specific thing - it's ''not'' a general concept about information derivation, it's a ''specific organic acid''.
:::'''Axl''': His ability has NOTHING to do with DNA, and is never claimed to. It's essentially analogous to what Transformers do.
:::'''Muk''': I didn't say that Mew didn't necessarily possess the DNA of all creatures, though that's not the only way to copy them. I said that claiming this meant it was the ancestor was so completely ignorant of evolution and genetics that it deserves ridicule.
:::However, Ditto is able to copy them because it is an amoeba, and can change the shape of its body at will. To be fair, it is ''once'' said to be able to copy the opponent's genetic code - which would only work AFTER seeing the opponent. As that is EXACTLY how Transform is described anyway, that theory is blown out of the water.
:::'''Arceus' Pokedex''': This is a bald-faced lie. The pokedex entries in no way claim that Arceus came to be after the Universe existed - at best, they claim he came before it, created it, and shaped it.
:::'''Arms''': Have you considered the fact that it could have lost them, or given them up? It is the only Arceus in existence, by the very necessity of its being, so its not going to be something like "They're all born without the arms". It "set free" all those legendaries from itself - maybe it made them from its arms, like so '''very''' many Creation Myths, ''especially the linked Pangu one''.
:::You could also consider that "1000" is often used in Japanese writing to mean "many", instead of a specific number, and as the trios of matter and spirit are considered extensions of Arceus, they could be its "appendages" in a spiritual sense. Seriously, that part of its Pokedex isn't contradictory ''at all''.
:::'''Merge''': What does this have to do with ''anything''? Why would Dragon Quest have any bearing on this?
:::'''Legends''': In the games? No, the legends don't claim that, so the fact that certain legendaries fight with trainers is not contradictory, regardless of your false assertion that it's "like nothing". In the anime, where the legends imply that messing with them is incredibly dangerous to the natural order...well, I'll just let you watch the movies, or something, and try to claim that it's "like nothing".
:::'''Remove''': Why would it be removed? It never claimed anything that was '''false''' - again, '''''it only claims that fictional scientists have a tenuous, uncertain belief based on one of its abilities'''''. The deliberate uncertainty of the Pokedex entries, in contrast to nearly every other Pokedex entry, even for Legendaries, has to be considered. If it's not simply a monstrous misunderstanding of genetics on the game designer's part, then it's almost certainly meant to be a reference to "Supernatural vs. Naturalist science".
::::''"If it can evolve through something like that, I'm pretty certain that it is even ancestral to those pokemon who evolve via special means."''
:::Again, this is inherently contradictory. If these are supposed to be new Pokemon, who only came into existence through a modern item, how could Mew possibly be said to already contain their DNA just because it can ''copy their form''? Remember, Porygon is said to be completely artificial, not an accident like Muk or Grimer.
::::''"lets remember that game physics are different from animé physics. Dialga, Palkia and giratina symbolise physics of the Pokémon world: time, space and dimensions,so if Arceus is the master of them that wouldn't make sense:creationism and science don't go together."'''
:::If Arceus is their master, then that would be in-game science. Science is the pursuit of ''truth'', not the pursuit of purely-materialistic explanations whether it's the truth or not.
:::Also, Giratina would symbolize the afterlife, or some other term for "The Other", not dimensions - "space", in the concept referred to by the triad, would necessarily contain dimensions already, parallel or measurable.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 05:46, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
::::I'm not SAYING that Ditto necessarily IS the ancestor, I only brought it into the picture since it's the only OTHER pokemon to know Transform. And besides which, the Pokédex entry for Ditto explicitly stated that it can transform by rearranging it's Genetic Structure (in other words, it's DNA) to that of it's target. It ALSO replicates their move set and, unless I'm mistaken, even their stats and natures.
::::actually, the Pokedex contradicted ITSELF in that case. I mean, if it doesn't have ANY DNA, then Ditto (not to mention Mew) couldn't transform into it OR it's family, and we all know that it can. Try and get a ditto, and try to face off against Porygon or it's family members in your games, and use transform against it if you don't believe me.
::::Ahem... when I said "Mega Man X" I mean from the Mega Man X saga ALL THE WAY to Mega Man ZX saga. In Mega Man Zero 4: ''Intro: The Reploids... They were robots designed to look like humans... these '''technical marvels''' were given unique personalities and were intended to be the perfect workers and the perfect partners of mankind...'' Later, Dr. Weil says something that would hint at Reploid being COMPLETELY mechanical. This is when Zero encounters him at the Ragnarōk core: Dr. Weil: ''Justice!? Freedom!? Worthless ideals! '''You Reploids are Just Machines, but you started a war a long time ago in the name of freedom!''' And Humans! Look what they did to me! Driving Me away while spurting the word "Justice!"'' And don't assume that he knows nothing about Reploid Physiology since he worked on reviving Reploids prior to his banishment from Neo Arcadia, and besides which, the reason why he was banished was because he created Dark Elf and augmented Zero's original body to become the horrific Omega, as well as instigated the Elf Wars. That shows that he knows quite a LOT about Reploids.
::::as for Axl, it was indeed DNA. in fact, Model A, whose personality (as well as his abilities and the form that Grey/Ashe take on when Megamerging with Model A) is clearly Based off of Axl, and would have easily been labeled as a reincarnation of Axl if Master Albert didn't say that it was actually "Model Albert". Heck, after beating Buckfire in the game, he explicitly mentions that he absorbed Buckfire's DNA, which would allow Grey/ashe to transform and utilize his abilities at will.
::::It also mentioned that Mew possessed the DNA of all Pokémon, though (and anyways, just saying that it "possesses the Genetic code for "pokémon" pretty much implies ALL Pokemon.). And that's what I was saying about Transform the whole time. I mean, Ancestors have to have the DNA of ALL Pokémon to actually be labeled as an Ancestor of all pokémon.
::::As for the Arceus entry, the way Pearl's Pokedex entry was worded made it seem as though it Shaped the universe as soon as it was born. And anyways, the Origin Myth implied that Arceus was the creator of the universe, whileas Pearl's Dex entry stated that it merely shaped it.
::::How can a god lose arms? I mean, Did Ares become one-armed? No, he didn't, and he has fought several wars where something like Decapitation or losing some part of limbs can be considered inevitable, esp. during his time.
::::Lets see, because the Origin thing mentioned that Dialga and Palkia are two halves of Arceus, and, if they were truly two halves of the same being, then having them both in your party would gain you a new arceus. but it doesn't.
::::Let's see, because only the Crime syndicates, the Hero/ine, and in one case, a BF leader, was able to capture legendaries. Also, in the Anime, the only time that the legendaries actually CAUSED a natural imbalance was in "Pokemon 2000", which even THEN, it was hinted that it was actually caused by territorial disputes rather than because it was captured in and of itself. most of the other movies and anime related things that featured legendaries didn't have the legendaries causing all Hades to break loose right when they were captured. Besides, as common in many mythos, A god simply cannot be captured by Mortals.
::::Because, if they didn't HAVE DNA, then Mew and Ditto CAN'T transform, since the move Transform requires the Genetic Code of a pokémon. Besides, that was directed at the guy who said that those who evolve via trades and items can't be related to Mew.
::::No, it's in game Mythology. The Origin story is nothing more than one big myth.
::::And yet it's constantly implied that Giratina is listed among Dialga and Palkia.
::::Anyways, that's all for now. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 11:25, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
::'''Ditto''': Your logic was that, because it can use Transform, it must be the ancestor. Either this implies that Ditto is also the ancestor (a contradiction), or you need to not make such claims. Its inherently self-contradictory.
::While Ditto's profile ''does'' sometimes say that it '''copies''' (not already possesses) the opponent's genetic code, it also says that it is "Capable of reorganizing its cells to transform into an exact duplicate of its enemy. It is usually a shapeless blob.", and that it can transform to resemble a rock. It is explicitly clear from the Pokedex entries, the description of Transform, and how Ditto is presented in the series, that it is merely ''reshaping it's '''own''' genetic code to '''resemble''' something else''. Because, as we all know, ROCK's DON'T HAVE DNA.
::The description of Transform, and how Ditto uses it, does ''not'' require that the opponent has DNA, only that Ditto does. ''Please keep this in mind''.
::The definition of "machine" does not require that something be purely inorganic in nature, and neither of the quotes you provided really even claims anything near that. Weil's quote, in that case, is emotional, and almost certainly pointing out his view that Reploid's are inferior and by nature servants of humans. This is the view used by ''all'' the villains in the Zero series, and is actually a ''huge'' part of the conflict. Play the games again.
::'''Axl''': No, it's not DNA. It's never said to be DNA. It's said to be a special ability of his, to transform his body. Model A, while designed to be a callback to Axl, is NOT Axl. However, I grant you that the Shittenou are said to have been derived from X's DNA. As Reploids are ''never'' said to be completely mechanical, and DNA is only mentioned as belonging to X and the Shittenou (notice that in ZX, Reploids and organics ''have been combined anyway'' - play the game again), it doesn't support your claim that something purely mechanical or programmed can still have DNA.
::'''Ancestor'': No, it says that some scientists ''claim'' that based on its abilities. '''You need to get that through your head''', and stop claiming that the Pokedex outright claims these things. You should also learn that your concept of "ancestry" is completely, utterly flawed, with no basis in any kind of genetics, and absolutely ridiculous. I'm sorry to be so harsh, but it's outright folly. That's NOT how an ancestor would be determined.
::'''Pearl''': You are again twisting or inserting things into the Pokedex that are not there in order to fit your views.
::'''Arms''': Hephaestus. Hercules. Pangu. Ymir. Odin. Please, think before spouting - gods are ''very'' prone to lose parts of their bodies.
::'''Halves''': First off, it doesn't. It claims they are two parts of Arceus. There is ''no basis'' in science ''or'' mythology for what you claim - Pangu and Ymir don't suddenly come back just because all the pieces are there. Two halves of an apple don't rejoin to a full apple just because they are there.
::'''Capture''': Pokemon 2000, in which the sea itself sprung forth, Pokemon the Movie, in which the world almost drowned, Pokemon 3, in which UNOWN nearly crystallized the earth, Pokemon 4Ever, in which messing with Celebi caused the forest to become a rampaging monster, Jirachi Wishmaker, in which messing with Jirachi caused the earth to come alive as a rampaging monster, Rise of Darkrai, in which Dialga and Palkia being disturbed nearly rent apart time and space...nearly every movie follows this format. Don't be so dense. Why would the world ''immediately'' come apart, anyway? If you removed the moon, it would still take some time for the seas to destabilize. As for your assertion that gods cannot be captured - you clearly have no knowledge of mythology. Such a thing is rife throughout Norse, Greek, Roman, Chinese, Japanese, Native American, African....nearly every mythology has such a thing happen. Only Abrahamic religions, where the ''sole'' God has absolute power and absolute perfection, has a deity invulnerable to human effort.
::'''New Pokemon''': First off, I didn't say all new Pokemon didn't have DNA, only that some of these included Pokemon who are explicitly said to be purely artificial. Second off, ''you really need to actually look stuff up before claiming things'' - your claims about, well, damn near everything in this discussion have almost no basis in what the game's have actually said. Transform requires the USER's DNA to be changed to cause the USER to resemble the opponent. There is no intake of DNA, and it would be ridiculous to claim that Ditto already has a databank of all DNA (remember, it can turn into Ash - is Ditto Ash's ancestor?)
::...it would be mythology (a story which explains the origin of the world) AND science (an experimentally fact-checked story which explains an empirical truth). Mythology is ''not'' equivalent to "lies and untruths".
::'''Giratina''': ...um, yeah. Which is why I explained that it can't represent something ruled by one of the others.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 22:37, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
:::As I said in my previous post, I wasn't implying that Ditto is the ANCESTOR (I only brought it into the picture because it's the only pokémon aside from Mew to learn Transform. Did I SAY that Ditto was the ancestor of all pokemon? no, I didn't.).
:::And that's why I differentiated between Mew and Ditto, see, Ditto needed to copy the DNA, yet it is hinted repeatedly even in DP that Mew's DNA contains all of Pokemon (more than just moves, also stats and typings to a certain extent [I.E. Transform]. Heck, it can even utilize Judgement if it wanted to (Not by move tutor's of course, but definitely via Metronome.). That's what makes Mew the ancestor. Besides, there's more to being an ancestor than just being there first. You must ALSO be genetically related. I'm not going into the DP thing since you're obviously missing the idea.
:::Ok, I'l agree with the Norse gods (though to be fair, it wasn't caused by Mortals), but Hercules was a half god, meaning, he can still be mutilated significantly by mortals with visible scarring.
:::Ok, I already covered Pokemon 2000, and the Unown weren't TRUE Legendary Pokemon. Also, The only thing caused by the capture of Celebi was the forest pokemon being POed, that Mecha didn't count since Iron Masked marauder made that mech. All Celebi did was just act as the core. Heck, Ask Blackjack Palazzo if you don't believe me, since she also mentioned that as well. I'll acknowledge Jirachi, though. As for the Rise of Darkrai, Humans weren't even responsible for Dialga and Palkia fighting, they just met when they ended up in a bad mood. Also, Mewtwo tried to do those actions to try and earn the right to exist (though most of that was eliminated from the Dub, sadly.). As for what you stated, if gods CAN be captured by mere mortals, EXPLAIN why Pirithous couldn't even capture Persephone without having his own butt stuck on a bench for all of eternity?! Heck, name one story where Zeus or any of the PURE gods were captured by mere mortals and forced to do their bidding by the Mortals command. Also, just FYI, I just mastered AP Latin, so DON'T say I'm not knowledgeable in Mythology in the Graeco-roman kind at least.
:::And for the last time, I didn't IMPLY nor state that Ditto even HAD a databank of DNA, that attribute belongs to Mew, and Mew alone.
:::Sheesh, sometimes you guys are impossible.[[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 23:00, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
::::It doesn't matter whether you explicitly say that Ditto is the ancestor - you're reasoning relies on claiming that the ability to use Transform is an indicator of having the DNA, and being the ancestor. Just by looking at Ditto, that's false. Being snarky about it doesn't change the fact that you're wrong.
::::Clefairy also has metronome, so Metronome cannot be an indicator of being the ancestor. To be the ancestor of all Pokemon, all Pokemon must be your descendants. Dialga and Palkia are clearly and explicitly descendants of Arceus only, unless Mew is Arceus' ancestor, which would be contradictory to what we are told. Again, you are confusing something the game frequently reiterates is a rumor, with what the game puts forth as exposition.
::::...what the hell do you mean "to be fair"? I never claimed that mortals caused the gods to lose body parts, and its completely irrelevant to discussion. As for Hercules, he became a full god after his original death.
::::....okay, I'm just going to post back your original post on this sub-topic, because you seem to have a bad memory:
:::''"and anyways, the legends also hinted that Legendaries can't be captured by mere mortals, yet most of the crime syndicates, the Pyramid King and even the protagonist has been wielding these pokemon '''as if they were nothing.'''"''
::::Mewtwo, the only Pokemon I can think of that was actually wielded by a "crime syndicate", caused those actions because it was PO'd about ''being used by humans''.
::::As far as I can tell, your implication with that passage was that Legendaries weren't the god-like beings that the legends indicated - ''yet their actions, even in The Rise of Darkrai, explicitly demonstrates that they are''. Whether a human actively screws with them or not, they ''can and will'' rip the world apart if they're in a bad mood. I'm also unaware of the legends implying that it's impossible to capture them - only that it's impossible to safely enslave them.
::::Wow...you pass high school latin, and you deem it logical to choose ''one'' example from ''one'' mythology to claim that ''all'' mortals in ''all'' mythology will never have the upper hand against ''any'' god? I'm definitely out of my league here!
::::Some other examples:
:::::''...Zeus then ordered Hades to chain Sisyphus in Tartarus. Sisyphus slyly asked Thanatos to try the chains to show how they worked. When Thanatos did so, Sisyphus secured them and threatened Hades. This caused an uproar, and no human could die until Ares (who was annoyed that his battles had lost their fun because his opponents would not die) intervened, freeing Thanatos and sending Sisyphus to Tartarus.''
:::::''Tantalus offered up his son, Pelops, as a sacrifice to the gods. He cut Pelops up, boiled him, and served him up as food for the gods. The gods were said to be aware of his plan for their feast, so they didn't touch the offering; only Demeter, distraught by the loss of her daughter, Persephone, "did not realize what it was" and ate part of the boy's shoulder.''
::::Yes, those who mess with the gods get it in the end - but isn't this ''exactly'' what happens to those who mess with the Legendary Pokemon? Even innocent play with pseudo-legendaries like Unown can endanger the world.
::::...I don't know how I can make this more plain:
:::::'''''You claimed that Mew's ability to use Transform meant it had to be the ancestor, and brought up Ditto as a "evidence" for your interpretation of how Transform worked.''''' Now, when confronted with this, you claim that the ability to use Transform does not imply something is the ancestor. '''''Make up your mind'''''.
:::::Actually, to be fair, you don't actually bring up this glaring inconsistency. You just try to avoid the contradiction, and try to "eat your cake and have it too."

To summarize:
#Mythology, as portrayed in the series, is quite reliable.
#Arceus' mythology is neither self-contradictory, nor unique among real-world mythology.
#The claim about Mew having the DNA of all Pokemon is not only contradictory to the explicit facts about artificial Pokemon such as Porygon, but never even claimed as fact, only as a rumor.
#Transform, as described in-game and as demonstrated by Ditto, does ''not'' require a databank of all DNA. It merely requires the ability to change shape, or to replicate another's DNA.
#Metronome, as described in-game and as demonstrated by Clefairy, also does not require a databank of all DNA.
#Claiming that Mew is the ancestor of all Pokemon is inherently contradictory to the stated claims about Arceus, Dialga, Palkia, Mesprit, Axelf, Uxie, and Heatran.
#Even before considering the contradictions in the total mythology, '''''The idea that having a copy of all of a group's DNA implies you are their ancestor is inherently ridiculous and contradictory. It is the opposite of how genetics and inheritance actually works, even on the most basic level. It can be immediately refuted by a thought-examination of a child and his two, un-related parents.'''''

[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 08:08, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Umm... Hello. May I be permitted to submit my own wild abstractions?(*looks around*) Thank you. Well, what if Arceus began by creating the Universe and then created Mew as a template for all Pokémon who then flew off and was disregarded whilst Arceus was busy creating the 'gods' of Time and Space... Or something...[[User:Monblazon|Monblazon]] 21:15, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
::That would work. Mew could conceivably be the progenitor or ancestor of ''most'' Pokemon, but not all.
::Also, I'm sorry, it turns out Axl's Copy Shot ''does'' use DNA Cores, so I apologize for being wrong about that bit.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 07:26, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
:::Thank you! I am good at filling in inconsistencies in canon like that...[[User:Monblazon|Monblazon]] 18:53, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
::::Do we call this the creation paradox? '''[[User:Optimatum|<sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Optimatum|Talk]]|[[User:Optimatum/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''10:38 3 Sep 2008'''''
:::::I'm not sure what you're referring to, as the only creation paradox I know of would require Mew to have travelled through time and created Arceus, which is in contradiction to what we've been given ("The Original One breathed alone"), as well as not based in any ability of Mew's that we know of. Could you explain what you mean?[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 19:33, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
::::::That would be a Temporal Paradox. The actual Paradox here is that since Mew is supposed to be the ancestor of ALL Pokémon, and Arceus is a Pokémon, the original, then one must contradict the other - which is the meaning of the word paradox. More or less...[[User:Monblazon|Monblazon]] 19:48, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
[un-indent] Look, I just feel the need to point this out. Do ''we'' have ''God's'' DNA? I don't see what's so contradictory about Arceus making Mew which all Pokémon (with the exception of, one assumes, Arceus's five avatars) may have eventually [Darwinian] evolved from. (...I just completely described intelligent design, didn't I?)--[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 20:04, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, and anyways, if we were to go by the definition of "Retcon", the statement of Mew believed to be the ancestor of all pokemon wouldn't even exist in D/P (Heck, they could have gotten to mention one of Mew's OLD Dex entries.) [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 20:11, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

check the DP Pokédex entry it says that scientists ''belive'' it is not known but believed in, no proof so wait for official information or this will end in a pardox.--[[User:Nobody777|Nobody777]] 16:45, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

:It is a paradox. But not a very vicious one.[[User:Monblazon|Monblazon]] 17:43, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

::Yeah, and besides, if we were to mention that we should eliminate the Mew dex thing as proof that it may not be retconned just because scientists believed that it was the ancestor of all pokemon, then by that same token, we should eliminate Arceus's Dex entry as proof that it is retconned since it says that it's believed to be the creator of the universe in MYTHOLOGY, in other words, it's believed to be the creator of the universe by a LIE! [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 19:46, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

:Exumptly. [[User:Monblazon|Monblazon]] 22:35, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

== STAB ==

The movesets seem to automatically assume Arceus is of the Fighting Type. I am unfamiliar with how this is coded, and so don't know how to fix it - is there anyone who can fix it?[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 06:00, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
:Don't you mean Dragon-type? --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 06:03, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
::Everything on the page assumes that Arceus is a randomly-generated type. It's a bit of code TTE added.--[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 06:42, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
:::Arceus is a {{type2|{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|0=???|1=Normal|2=Fighting|3=Flying|4=Poison|5=Ground|6=Rock|7=Bug|8=Ghost|9=Steel|10=Fire|11=Water|12=Grass|13=Electric|14=Psychic|15=Ice|16=Dragon|17=Dark}}}}... everyone knows that.
:::Yeah. My random code that changes depending on the time that the page is last loaded to cache. Takes the Unix time (seconds since 1/1/1970) and then does a modulo division by 18, assigning one of the eighteen forms of Arceus to each remainder. Unown does a similar thing, but you only notice it in the evoboxes. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 07:04, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

== Empty ==

There is no content in the "In the anime", "In the manga" and "In the TCG". So why not somebody delete it?
[[User:FireHazard|FireHazard]] 03:07, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
:So when it comes out we can put it there.All pages fit a designated template[[User:Darth Cookie Monster|DCM]]

== Moves ==
why is the movelist not where its supposed to be????
or is it just my computer????[[User:Dion24|Dion24]] 11:03, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

:It looks fine to me. What problem are you seeing? ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 17:49, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

::The level up nd TM learnsets appear at the top of the page over all the writing [[User:Dion24|Dion24]] 07:53, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

that happened to me, and I realized that happened because I browsed all of the arceus formes or most of them.--[[User:Nobody777|Nobody777]] 13:15, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
:Everything on the page goes wired after you press show sprites and the movelist and everything else goes weird, and this goes for all pages. It might only be my computer, but it should be changed to suit all. --[[User:Wowy|Wowy]] 00:51, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
::I don't understand... What browser are you using? '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 07:01, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Talk:Arceus (Pokémon)/Archive 1

2008-09-05T17:43:14Z

Monblazon:

Um, {{u|TTEchidna}}, you put down that Arseus can become an ???-type Pokémon by holding a ??? Plate. Where'd you get that from?--[[User:Pokencyclopedia|Pokencyclopedia]] 21:35, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Man u have got to be kidding me Arceus catch rate should not be 3. I used my Action replay to get the item 4 arceus then i went and caought it on my 5th dusk ball. My friend caought it on him 1st ultra ball. Another friend i gave the item 2 caught it on his 2nd qiuck ball.
:Man, you have to be kidding me, you can't even spell the word "you" right. Arceus's catch rate is 3. If you'll notice, those balls multiply the catch rate formula by quite a bit, which greatly increases the chance to be caught. Plus, it's all on luck, I've had Magikarp break out of balls before. --'''[[User:TTEchidna|T]][[User talk:TTEchidna|T]][[wp:Echidna|Echidna]]''' 22:36, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

I added an alternative origin to Arceus's name that I found on: http://www.serebiiforums.com/showthread.php?t=286767.[[User:Draconium|Draconium]] 23:42, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

==Is there a point...==
Is there a point of having a table for each of the plates when it is attached to Arceus?
We could just have Arceus without a plate, and then have each title with an image and a sentence saying what type Arceus changes to.
For Example:

==Type effectiveness==
===No plate equipped===
{{DP type effectiveness|
type1=normal|
Normal= 100 |
Fighting=200 |
Flying= 100 |
Poison= 100 |
Ground= 100 |
Rock= 100 |
Bug= 100 |
Ghost= 0 |
Steel= 100 |

Fire= 100 |
Water= 100 |
Grass= 100 |
Electric=100 |
Psychic= 100 |
Ice= 100 |
Dragon= 100 |
Dark= 100 }}
[[Image:Spr 4d 493-Fire.png|thumb|right|Sprite for {{type2|Fire}} Arceus]]
===With Flame Plate===
When the Flame Plate is attached to Arceus, it becomes a Fire type.

etc... [[User:Tesh|Tesh]] 23:06, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

==Picture==
I have this picture:

[[Image:Arceus.PNG]]

I did not draw it. I want to use it on the page. It is much better than trying to stare at a tiny sprite. --[[User:Stinkoman|Stinkoman]] 15:08, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

:Better than a sprite for sure, but it'd be nice if we could find one without such bad compression artifacts. [[User:Invisible Shiny Bulbasaur|Invisible Shiny Bulbasaur]] 22:30, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
::I don't think we should really be using an unofficial image for the page. What would be nice is if somebody could get a nice, high-quality (as in NOT a photo of the monitor) screenshot of ARceus from PBR.--[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 01:22, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
:::You mean hack an Arceus and copy it into PBR?
[[Image:Psychic-attack.png|Psychic]][[Image:Ani475MS.gif]] '''[[User:Optimus35|Agent]] [[Gallade (Pokémon)|448]][[User talk:Optimus35|Talk]] | [[User:Optimus35/Diamond&Pearl|DP]]''' [[Image:Fighting-attack.png|Fighting]] 11:46, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

== Sprites? ==

Should we include separate sprite templates for all of the forms, or just do it for one? I know that Unown and Castform, among others, would serve the same problem. '''[[User:TTEchidna|T]][[User talk:TTEchidna|T]][[wp:Echidna|Echidna]]''' 22:10, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

== Art?! ==

I'd like to know the source of Arceus' picture. Mainly because it hasn't been revealed yet. TinaTheKirlia 02:44, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
:It's a piece of fanart. --[[User:DarkfireTaimatsu|DarkfireTaimatsu]] 02:47, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
::That's what I thought, although there was an edit that said "Official Art" or something and it was rather confusing. TinaTheKirlia 16:29, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
I think we should replace that art with a sprite. It seems inaccurate... Mariocaper 19:19, 20 September 2007

Yeah, and we could enlarge the size of the sprite so it won't be that tiny anymore, right? [[Image:Psychic-attack.png|Psychic]]http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/sprites/dpiconani/dpiconani475.gif '''[[User:Optimus35|Optimus35]][[User talk:Optimus35|Talk]] | [[User:Optimus35/Diamond&Pearl|DP]]''' [[Image:Fighting-attack.png|Fighting]] 06:45, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
:Enlarged sprites look terrible. --[[User:DarkfireTaimatsu|DarkfireTaimatsu]] 06:49, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
::Couldn't we get a PBR screenshot? And I mean a screenshot, not someone pointing their camera at a television? (We need that for Rosy and Sashay, too...)--[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 07:13, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
::I can't, my FRAPS only works on full screen games like Maple Story...I think we could take the Arceus photo, enlarge it and sharpen it a little, then put it back on bulba. The only problem with this is that the sprite would be oversize...
:::I hope that you have permission to use that piece of fan art. --[[Special:Contributions/Kenji-girl|☆]][[Tracey Sketchit|ケンジ]][[User:Kenji-girl|ガール]] 21:27, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
::::I've got five PBR shots. They're all in my [[User:Optimus35/Sandbox|sandbox]]. Click on the links under 'Arceus'. Tell me which one looks best on my talk page and I'll upload it onto Bulbagarden Archives...[[Image:Ani475MS.gif]] '''[[User:Optimus35|Agent]] [[User:Optimus35/Mission|4]][[User:Optimus35/Emerald|4]][[Gallade (Pokémon)|8]][[User talk:Optimus35|δ]] | [[User:Optimus35/Diamond&Pearl|DP]]''' | [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?limit=50&title=Special%3AContributions&contribs=user&target=Optimus35&namespace=0&year=&month=-1 ☆][[Image:Ani282MS.gif]] 09:01, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Change the pic!
[[User:Crystallucario|Crystallucario]] 14:54, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
:The reason why we're not changing it is because it's nicely done fanart, and it's more easier to look at this instead of a sprite.
:Otherwise it'd be absolute hell for me to draw Arceus. Still is, but certainly more easier than looking at a sprite. :p [[User:Tina|Tina]] [[Special:Contributions/Tina|δ]][[User talk:Tina|♫]] 16:40, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
hmmm maybe ok whatever...
[[User:Crystallucario|CrystalLucario 12:23, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
::...except, do we have permission to use the image? The image page doesn't seem to claim it at all, so I'm going to go ahead and guess that we're doing something illegal or at least unethical here. Seriously, why can't we just use a PBR shot?[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 00:58, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
:::Since when was pokemon ever ethical? Think about it, the aim of the game is to run away from home at 10 years old (good parenting skills mom) and after having abuse a poor little starly to the brink of death by slashing it over and over again with false swipe you throw something at it, only adding to the poor creature's pain and torture only to trap it inside a small, cramped chamber for the rest of its unnatural life whilst using it to abuse other pokemon. But anyways I digress, the point is the piece of fanart looks nice, is accurate and fits in perfectly with all the official pokemon artwork. Hell when I first visited the page I thought it WAS a piece of official artwork. A PBR snapshot would not be at all as effective as the fanart. So no, we ain't havin a PBR shot. [[User:Wikid|Wikid]] 16:20, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

::::No one is questioning the ethics of the series, just in using someone else's work without their consent. Besides, the face is drawn wrong. There should be more lines running across it. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 16:28, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Metronome ==

My Mew used Judgement through Metronome. Should I include something like this under "Trivia":

Although Nintendo is attempting to keep Arceus secret, it is possible for Arceus's signature move, {{m|Judgment}}, to be used through {{m|Metronome}}, thus potentially revealing the existence of Arceus to otherwise unaware fans.

--[[User:Shiny Noctowl|Shiny Noctowl]][[User talk:Shiny Noctowl|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Shiny Noctowl|Contribs]][[Image:Ani480MS.gif]] 20:33, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

i could draw arceus if that would help. i like drawing pokémon. [[talonclawz]] new comer!!!!!!!!!! [[Image:Ani444MS.gif‎]]

== Shishigami? ==

Should any mention of the Forest Spirit Shishigami from Miyazaki Hayao's Mononoke-Hime be mentioned in the article? Arceus seems to have a resemblance to Shishigami. In addition, on the illegal hacked Pokémon Diamond (Telefang Power), Shishigami appears on the front, despite not having anything to do with the game (that's the way those criminals work), and then in the real Pokémon Diamond, Arceus was added. Does anyone else think that some trivia should be added about this? ~Kumori Satosuke
:Outside of the whole quadrupedal thing, I don't think there's anything else that's official to suggest a connection. For example, Arceus seems to be nothing outside of a creator, while shishigami is given dominion over life and death.--[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 03:27, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
::Yes, I agree. There really isn't anything linking the two other than a vague (And I do mean VAGUE.) resemblance. --[[User:Dual|Dual]] 14:15, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

== ??? type sprite may prevent crash ==
Just a theory, but the programmers at Game Freak may have drawn and programmmed a ??? type Arceus to prevent game crashes. Anyone with a code patcher can figure out how to change a Pokémon's type. They might have figured that someone would tamper with Arceus's type, and if they changed it to a ??? type, and there was no sprite for it, the game would crash because it would try loading data that does not exist. That's my theory anyway. [[User:Fsilone|Fsilone]] 02:10, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
:That's really logical. figure that by yourself? But I still don't know if we should put that in the article.[[Image:Ani471MS.gif]][[User:Pokemaniac102|'''Poke''''''maniac''''''102''']][[Image:AniEggMS.gif]] 02:17, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

::im a little iffy on the grammer, but other than that i think its a fantastic theory and should be in the trivia section. excellent. now all i need to do is figure out how to do it myself in my game with the Action Replay... [[Image:Ani081MS.gif|35px]][[User:MAGNEDETH|MAGNEDETH]][[Image:Ani082MS.gif|35px]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|TALK]][[Image:Ani462MS.gif|35px]] 02:30, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

:::You can't - you need to edit the rom data - action replay only edits temporary and save data. Think so anyway. '''[[:User:Origamiguy|折り紙ガイ]] - [[:User_talk:Origamiguy|離す]][[:Special:Contributions/Origamiguy|貢献]]''' 15:37, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

I think I don't see anything grammatically wrong. I copied the words above and reworded it into sentences.[[Image:Ani471MS.gif]][[User:Pokemaniac102|'''Poke''''''maniac''''''102''']][[Image:AniEggMS.gif]] 02:34, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

:yea, im probibly wrong, im not joking when i say i failed english class......twice...with a 54..... [[Image:Ani081MS.gif|35px]][[User:MAGNEDETH|MAGNEDETH]][[Image:Ani082MS.gif|35px]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|TALK]][[Image:Ani462MS.gif|35px]] 03:42, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

what the heck is shishigami? is it a pokémon?(someone out there?) [[-talonclawz]] new comer!!!!! [[Image:212MS.gif]] 1:06, 5 April 2008

No. Wait a minute if you don't know that Errr...how new are you to Pokémon?[[User:Crystallucario|'''''Crystal''''']] [[User talk:Crystallucario|'''''Lucario''''']] 17:43, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

A shishigami is a Japanese god of death. [[User:LordKaien|LordKaien]] 14:51, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

== {{type2|???}} Sprite ==

[[Image:Question-Type Arceus Before.jpg|thumb|left|Before]][[Image:Question-Type Arceus After.jpg|thumb|right|After]]How long has the sprite of ???-type Arceus been pulling that vanishing act? Basically, the only time you can see the sprite is when the white background on PNG-format images is still visible, as seen in the Before shot. Once the white backgrounds vanish, the rest of the sprite should still be there. However, on ???-type Arceus, the sprite vanishes along with the background, as seen in the After shot. Is there a way to fix this?

(The shots in question come from an area of my own user page, specifically a [[Template:User Favorite Move|favorite move tag]] programmed for a ???-type move and {{m|Curse}} with the Arceus sprite in question for a laugh. The [[Template:User 2000|2000-edits in a month tag]] above it is also shown for comparison.) --[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 05:41, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

:Wow. That's weird that it just disappears! --[[Image:Spr 3e 059.gif|70px]][[Image:Spr 3e 132.gif]]'''[[User:Theryguy512|Theryguy]][[User:Theryguy512/Contribution Page|5]][[User:Theryguy512/Mission Page|1]][[User:Theryguy512/Sandbox|2]]''' [[Image:Trozeiani025.gif]] 11:59, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
I think I figured out the vanishing act. It's due to the filename. Many operating systems don't allow question marks in filenames, and it's probably due to those that caused the image to vanish. I went and uploaded an image to [[a:Image:Spr 4d 493-Unknown.png|Image:Spr 4d 493-Unknown.png]] on the archives, and that image works as it should! Every instance of the vanishing image has been changed to the one that doesn't vanish, so you won't be seeing vanishing ???-type Arceus again anytime soon. --[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 16:37, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

== Pic ==

Okay, I remember {{u|Urutapu}} saying something about a screenshot of Arceus from PBR. Well, I got a Wii ''and'' PBR for Christmas. And I have *cough*cheated*cough* four Arceuses. All I need now is a good-quality emulator that can screenshot my Wii with. Any suggestions?
--{{u|Stinkoman}}

Somehow theres a way of putting a SCART socket into your PC and running it through that. My mate's computer can do that but i think it had the socket when he bought it. [[Image:Ani258MS.gif]][[User:Origamiguy|OrigamiGuy]] Lieks [[Mudkip (Pokémon)|Mudkipz]][[Image:Ani258MS.gif]]

== Officially been revealed ==
Until this Pokemon has been officially revealed (by Nintendo or Coro Coro magazine) this page should be removed, because the only reason why there is proof of its existence is through a hacking or cheating device.
:WHAT! This page should be included on here. If it is in the Game, weather or not if it has been reaveled, it IS STILL IN THE GAME WITHOUT HAVING TO BE MADE{{Ani|493}}[[User:Darth Cookie Monster|'''C ''']]{{Ani|491}}[[User talk:Darth Cookie Monster|''' Is''']]{{Ani|426}}[[User:Darth Cookie Monster/My Story|'''for Cookie''']]{{Ani|473}}
::Yea, this page is about a Pokémon. In case you don't know (hopefully you do), this is a Pokémon encyclopedia. This page is like mandatory. --'''[[User:Theryguy512|Theryguy]][[User talk:Theryguy512|5]][[User:Theryguy512/Contribution Page|1]][[User:Theryguy512/Similarities|2]]''' 02:12, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
:::Exactly. We have pages for all Pokémon ''officially programmed into the games''. Would you come here before Deoxys was revealed and say "NUH UH THERE'S ONLY 201 IN HOENN DEOXYS IS A HAKKER ONLY POKEMAN." Arceus is official, they're just holding off on the official revelation. Besides... plenty of Pokémon from each generation were never revealed through CoroCoro or by Nintendo individually. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]][[Image:Ani155MS.gif|Fire echy]]''' 07:07, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

I may only be 10, but take it from me. Arceus is real. It is on pokemon.com's pokedex.[[User:DaPikanator56|DaPikanator56]] 18:47, 22 March 2008 (UTC){{u|DaPikanator56}}
:Well, actually, it's not on the PokéDex on [[Pokemon.com]], but yes, it is real. --'''[[User:Theryguy512|Theryguy]][[User talk:Theryguy512|5]][[User:Theryguy512/Contribution Page|1]][[User:Theryguy512/Similarities|2]]''' 13:17, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
::An example of what TTE said would be the Porygons. '''<sc>[[User:Optimus35|{{tt|Optimatum♏|Optimus35}}]]</sc>[[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|♊]]02:32 30 Mar 2008'''

Oh yeah! It and ummm... {{p|Shaymin}} I think aren't Theryguy.[[User:DaPikanator56|DaPikanator56]] 18:52, 30 March 2008 (UTC){{u|DaPikanator56}}
:Shaymin has been acknowledged by official Japanese sources. And to address the original point, we are not Wikipedia. Everyone knows that Arceus is real, so this page is a necessity. Hell, we have articles for a lot of glitch Pokémon so a real one definately passes. --[[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] [[User talk:Fabu-Vinny|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Fabu-Vinny|C]]-[[User:Fabu-Vinny/Sandbox|S]] 23:52, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

True...Oh, and by the way, in the summer I will shorten my visits here, but this place rules! It ain't demented like Chuckie Cheese's.
:) ^-^[[User:DaPikanator56|DaPikanator56]] 22:31, 3 April 2008 (UTC)DaPikanator56

==Picture==

I found this picture interesting, but low quality. [http://www.pokebeach.com/news/0507/arceus.jpg its on www.pokebeach.com] --[[User:Britannia's Blade|Britannia's Blade]] 21:25, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
:Good find, but it's already linked from the article [[Arceus (Pokémon)#External links|right here]]. --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 23:38, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

------------
I also just found this one [http://www.arkeis.com/images/pokemonfactory/arceus.png ****] Fan art of course but very serious looking, Lots more like it [http://www.arkeis.com/legendaries.htm here] what do you think? --[[User:Britannia's Blade|Britannia's Blade]] 18:47, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
:I don't see how fanart is very notable to put up here.. >_> [[User:Tina|Tina]] [[Special:Contributions/Tina|δ]][[User talk:Tina|♫]] 19:06, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
::The one we have right now will do us until Arcy is revealed next year. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 20:37, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
:::What about this one? - [http://www.pokebeach.com/news/0507/arceus2.jpg (1)] '''[[:User:Origamiguy|折り紙ガイ]] - [[:User_talk:Origamiguy|離す]][[:Special:Contributions/Origamiguy|貢献]]''' 15:45, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
::::-Gasp- Why not that one! Ooo, take it! TAKE IT!!! '''[[User:Optimus35|<sc>Optimatum</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''13:53 2 May 2008'''''
TTE, Arceus isn't going 2 be revealed 4 two years yet. [[User:LordKaien|LordKaien]] 14:53, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

==Arceus and Giratina==
Aren't Arceus and Giratina sort of opposites of each other because Arceus is God and Giratina is the devil sort of, I mean Arceus didn't create Giratina so that means they were the two entities before time started. [[User:Big Johnno|Pokémon Master]] 17:46 15 May 2008
:Maybe you're right, but i think that Giratina is part of the Dragon Trio. [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 23:37, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
::Giratina is the BOSS! It saved the two other Pokamon! Posted by the '''[[User:Optimus35|<sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''01:04 17 May 2008'''''
:Hold on, there's no reason to get angry. Why can't we just WAIT until Arceus is officially revealed? Isn't that BETTER than argueing? [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 23:37, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

In my eyes it would be

Dialga + Palkia = Rivals (Time VS Space)

Giratina + Arceus = Rivals (God VS Darkness?)

So yeah, regardless of the fact Giratina is part of the Dragon Trio.
(''Thinking about it, those four are exactly the same as my characters |: Lily = Controls Time. Darkness = Controls Space. Akito = Controls Death. Rose = Controls Life/Is a sort-of God. But anyway, my characters are irrelevant too this xD'') [[User:Takoto|Takoto タコト]]| サソデイ = 愛 14:37, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
:So, Arceus is God/JesusHoly Spirit, and Giratina is Satan? O.O It's Da '''[[User:Optimus35|<sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''06:03 26 May 2008'''''
::Arceus is Arceus. Giratina is Giratina. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 07:02, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
:::Meh, that's the Atheist way of seeing it. Hey, wait, am I about to be stone for being anti-atheist? Damn. It's Da '''[[User:Optimus35|<sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''07:13 26 May 2008'''''
::::I didn't say Giratina was Satan, i simply said he was...darkness. [[User:Takoto|Takoto タコト]]| サソデイ = 愛 02:05, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
My question is, how do you KNOW Giratina is bad, or if Arceus is even good? How do you KNOW Giratina wasn't created by Arceus? You don't. Besides, Neither ot them are from Christianity, and U know what? I'm a devout Christian and I don't care if Arceus wasn't based off of my God. [[User:LordKaien|LordKaien]] 14:56, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
:Does anybody want to see it this way, "WE SHOULD ALL JUST WAIT"? [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 22:06, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
::I don't think Giratina is evil. You don't have too be evil/whatever to control darkness/whatever Giratina controls. I do not think Giratina is evil! [[User:Takoto|Takoto タコト]]| サソデイ = 愛 22:22, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
:Is this text INVISIBLE? WE SHOULD ALL JUST WAIT! [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 00:28, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
::Thank you, good people of bulbapedia, for waiting. [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 00:57, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

== More sprites ==

Ok, so we have all the type sprites for Arceus and it's shiny sprite, but we don't have shiny forms for Arceus' other types. Could someone please tell me if it's possible to get those sprites and if so get them for us? [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 12:08, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
:If i could, i would, but i can't, so i can't help you. I'm not even 100% sure Arceus's other-type sprites HAVE shiny versions of them :| [[User:Takoto|Takoto タコト]]| サソデイ = 愛 14:27, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
::They do. And a simple method is to color the sprites the right color. The white portion of the body is the only part which remains constant throughout the non-shiny forms. and when it becomes shiny, the rings are the same color as those of the non-shiny ones. The only thing that differs between non-shiny and shiny is the white portion, which turns yellow. It's Da '''[[User:Optimus35|<sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''06:01 26 May 2008'''''
:So... could you do that for us as a favor? [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 22:02, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
::I might have those sprites on my computer somewhere. Want me to upload them? [[User:Yinyang1195|Yin]][[User talk:Yinyang1195|Yang]] 20:05, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
:Why don't you recolor them...it will be easy.--[[User:Tavisource|☆Tavis]][[User talk:Tavisource|ource]] 00:49, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
::I dont no how... [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 00:54, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
:Hmm...I would do it, but I'm very busy right now, you could go ask hcfx2 for help, he's great at recoloration.--[[User:Tavisource|☆Tavis]][[User talk:Tavisource|ource]] 00:57, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
:Nevermind, i found them on "a:Catagory:Arceus". But thanks :) [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 01:11, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

== Metronome and Judgement ==

If a player knows nothing about Arceus, how would they know that Judgement is its signature attack? Even if it is used by a Pokémon using Metronome. So could Metronome really spoil the surprise? ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 02:50, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
:Not really. ^^; Metronome can do ANYTHING. Even Explosion so...'''[[User:Optimus35|It's the <sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''02:54 4 Jun 2008'''''
::Well, if they were like "Ooh, what learns that?!" and can't find anyone, they'll suspect it to be some crazy legendary not yet shown. And have lived under a rock since EVERYONE KNOWS OF ARCEUS. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 03:03, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
:::Hmm, then Singapore must be under a rock. Only two people I know know what's Arceus, that includes me. '''[[User:Optimus35|It's the <sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''03:12 4 Jun 2008'''''
::::Or this is nintendo's way of teasing us. kinda like,
Player:"What pokémon learns this?"
Nintendo:"Wait and see"
Player:"You suck."[[User:LordKaien|LordKaien]] 12:39, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

I only ask because of this quote in the trivia:

"''Although Nintendo is attempting to keep Arceus secret, it is possible for Arceus's signature move, Judgment, to be used through Metronome, thus potentially revealing the existence of Arceus to otherwise unaware fans.''"

Plus, Nintendo ''has'' to know that the majority of their fanbase uses the internet. Every Pokémon website except the "official" ones have info on Arceus. A lot of them even before the games were released globally. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 15:57, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
:The majority of the fanbase are kids who don't necessarily visit fansites. --[[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] |[[User talk:Fabu-Vinny|Talk Page]]| 16:02, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
::No ([[User:MathijsP|MathijsP]] 16:03, 4 June 2008 (UTC))
:::Yes. --[[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] |[[User talk:Fabu-Vinny|Talk Page]]| 16:04, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
::::No ([[User:MathijsP|MathijsP]] 16:05, 4 June 2008 (UTC))

:::::I would have to disagree with that statement. I believe that most fans may have been kids at the beginning when Pokémon first came out, but now have grown as the series has. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 16:18, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

A similar thing happened to me when I was playing PBR. I ordered my Togepi to use Metronome and out came Judgment. I wondered what Pokémon used this move until I checked this site and I found Arceus. I didn't even know about its existence AT ALL when Metronome was used that one year ago... {{ani|385}}[[User:BlueJirachi|BlueJirachi]] 18:01, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

== Arceus's pattern in the anime? ==

I didn't get a second look (mainly because I deleted the episode from my DVR), but I heard in the episode "Journey to the Unknown!" that Saturn was holding a cube with Arceus's pattern on it... [[User:ShinyRayquaza|ShinyRayquaza]] 19:35, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

== Arceus + Sky Plate? ==

If you attach a Sky Plate to Arceus, wouldn't that make it become the first pure Flying-type Pokémon? [[User:Wynautluvr|Wynautluvr]] 16:53, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

:It is the first "permanent" pure Flying-type. The Porygon line can become Flying-types with their Conversion moves, and Kecleon can with its Color Change Ability. These Pokémon, however, revert back to Normal when the battle is over. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 18:56, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

::It's not permanent, in that you can change the plate and it loses the pure-flying status... '''[[:User:Origamiguy|Lord]] of [[:User_talk:Origamiguy|Ori]][[Special:Contributions/Origamiguy|gami]]''' 15:16, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
:::It's permanent in that it doesn't go away just because the battle ends. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 21:46, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
::::No its not. Its only a permanent flying type if its natural type (i.e. no plate) is flying. You might as well say its also the first permamnent ??? type since it can become that (potentially) too.[[User:Wikid|Wikid]] 16:43, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

:::::If you never remove the plate, then it's permanent. Plus, you can't obtain a ???-type Arceus in-game in any normal fashion. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 16:45, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

:::::: Says you. firstly, the word permanent implies that the typing can never be changed. If you unequip the plate Arceus goes back to normal therefore it's not permanent. At best I would say its semi-permament. Secondly, there might a ??? plate given out at an event or found somewhere in platinum like Glacidia's flower. ??? forme arceus might be the result when you enter the torn world with arceus. It might even be what Arceus looks like when it is a shadow pokemon as there might be a new game coming out to do with shadow pokemon and DPP might be the first generation where you can trade shadow pokemon over. Therefore if you can trade it as shadow poke between DP and platinum then there is a way to get an ??? forme Arceus in a normal fashion.[[User:Wikid|Wikid]] 17:21, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Fine. "Semi-permanent". ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 17:24, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== The ??? Plate ==

The ??? Plate exists, It is named mysterious plate by CodeJunkies, It may also be encountered in the underground as a Malfunction, people got this (like my brother) and attached it to ARCEUS, making the ??? type, no weaknesses are found on this type--[[User:M.vit|M.vit]] 00:10, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
:Believe me, people code-spelunk like there's no tomorrow...there isn't such thing.--[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 00:10, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

can M.vit at least tell how did his brother encounter such a plate, and how does it function with other Pokémon?and what happens to a Pokémon who knows the move [[curse]]

can somebody edit this article . It says that Arceus creted the Pokémon Universe,''Dragon trio'' and lake trio. Till now the dragon trio isn't officially confirmed. so whether I or somebody else should change the Dragon trio to the time-space duo: Dialga and Palkia.--[[User:Nobody777|Nobody777]] 13:56, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

well, seems that nobody is out of topic, BTW, i have seem to find this code in Code Junkies here it is
Mysterious Plate x999
94000130 fcff0000
b21c4d28 00000000
b0000004 00000000
00000890 03e70133
d2000000 00000000--[[User:M.vit|M.vit]] 16:55, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

:The plates all have different names on CodeJunkies which are the translated Japenese names. I believe the Mysterious Plate is actually the Mind Plate. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 17:13, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
::Your right, it is the mind plate. '''{{Colored link|:User:Origamiguy|ff8000|Lord}} of {{Colored link|:User_talk:Origamiguy|ff8000|Ori}}{{Colored link|Special:Contributions/Origamiguy|ff8000|gami}}''' 16:45, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

==type change==

Keckleons ability color change changes its type according to the move done by the opponent so if ???-type arceus used judjement, will it change its type? can anyone experiment?--[[User:Nobody777|Nobody777]] 13:21, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

:The fact that you can't get a ??? plate makes it difficult to say. I have no idea what would happen...♪♪[[User:ShinyPachirisu|Shiny]] [[User Talk:ShinyPachirisu|Pachirisu]] :) ♪♪ 13:23, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

::???-type moves have been hacked and have no effect. So Kecleon would probably be unaffected. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 13:39, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
:::Actually, they do have an effect... they just deal minimal damage. Lemme see what it does in Gen III later on... '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 23:41, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Pal Park]] ==

Will it really freeze the game when you put Arceus infront of the party and bla bla bla to the Pal Park?
[[User:Palkia38|Palkia38]] 03:48, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

== Now... ==

Isn't what I did so freaking cool? I mean, look at it. And the best thing is that it is totally dependent on the ''exact second'' that you save/access the page. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 07:32, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
:A fine template, indeed. Would it be useful to use something like this to generate random examples in paragraphs?
:P.S.: What you did (a calculation based on a clock) is even a good idea for a new ability or move in the game that picks a random type. --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 07:53, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
::Now if we only had the backsprites for the various forms...--[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 22:49, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
:::Two clock-based calculations would make it even more random. Watch this. {{#expr: ({{#time: U}} div {{#time: s}}) mod 9002}} {{#ifexpr: (({{#time: U}} div {{#time: s}}) mod 9002) > 9000|<big>'''← IT'S OVER 9000!!!'''</big>}}
:::As for random examples... hmm... Well, what are you thinking?
:::And I wish for the backsprites, too... And the minisprite, does it change with Arceus? '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 22:58, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

==Arceus in My Pokémon Ranch==
For a fact,someone in the German forum BisaBoard got Arceus as one of the daily Pokémon!This person was -like me- totally dumbfounded and opened that thread to know more about this phenomena.
I've asked some expert in the same message board if this would be really possible.To my surprise,he said that he checked the programme code and Arceus is really included!I think this MUST be put into the Trivia section.[[User:Uxie legend|Uxie legend]]

:How does one check the program code of a Wii Ware title? And of course Arceus would be there, it can be deposited just like any other Pokémon. Plus, I ''doubt'' that Hayley will trade you an Arceus... ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 16:02, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

::Might be wrong, but I believe there is a set list of Pokémon Hayley will only trade off, which was found and released in dr_nza's FAQ found [http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/wii/file/943658/53074 here]. The Pokémon Hayley brings are random, so I guess Arceus is a possibility, but Hayley won't be able to trade it off. - [[User:Legotim|█╬▓◘ ’M █╚▓█ (ţś_łєğǿŧΐм)]] [[User talk:Legotim|spreche]] 05:06, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

==Hmmm....==
Should we add that Arceus is the most hacked Pokemon? Every hacker I know owns a Arceus ''and'' all its plates. [[User:Strong Intelligent|Strong Intelligent]]
:No. tc26 14:03, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
::I own all the plates too. I got them underground. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 22:46, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

:::I spent so much time underground that I have more than one of each plate. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 03:22, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

== Church? ==

{{u|Sui}} keeps adding an external link to "The Church of Arceus." I'm wondering whether or not this is notable enough, or if it's just an advertisement for an obscure fansite. I don't know anything, so you guys be the judges. --[[User:Martonimos|Martonimos]][[User talk:Martonimos|((Argh]]|[[Special:Contributions/Martonimos|Blargh))]] 21:59, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

== Ūber? ==

If [[Arceus]] isn't offically reveiled, how can it be called Ūber? Can't spell.

☆ShinyPiKa 19:17, 8 August 2008 (UTC)☆
:Well, some people hack into their games and can get Arceus that way. So they know that way. ...I really dunno [[User:Takoto|Takoto タコト]]| サソデイ = 愛 19:22, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

::His stats put him in the league of the strongest Pokemon of all, so he's safe to call that. [[User:Toastypk|'''''~Toastypk''''']] - [[User_Talk:Toastypk|'''Loom.''']] 19:28, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

::: Although that is true, it isn't revealed yet so it can't be under that catagory '''yet'''. It's been annoying me, please remove it. ShinyPiKa 19:58, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

:::It's being used, and people are able to--gasp, shocker--read its stats! And, since its stats (and movepool, for that matter) are pretty decent, it can be classified as "uber," despite it being revealed or not. --'''[[User:Gabbie|gabbie]]''' | '''[[User_talk:Gabbie|talk]]''' 21:07, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

:::: But people still use Arceus on Wi-Fi. Darkrai and Shaymin were in and are still in the UBER tier so why should Arceus be any different?--[[User:Blazevoir|Blaz]][[User talk:Blazevoir|evoir]] 20:59, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

::::: Because it hasn't been revealed yet !!! :D ShinyPiKa 22:23, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
::::::You cant use Arceyus in the battle tower. [[User:MathijsP|MathijsP]] 09:30, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
::::::: Please remove [[Arceus]] from the Ūber secion 4 now, when its reveaaled u can add it back.ShinyPiKa 15:00, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
:::::::: Why? Every other website considers it ÜBER. Why should Bulba be any different?--[[User:Blazevoir|Blaz]][[User talk:Blazevoir|evoir]] 15:08, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::Because people think Nintendo will kill us for actually taking note of their stuff before they officially reveal them. Unlike Platinum's existence before May 15, though, it can be proven that Arceus exists. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 17:21, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Arceus vs. Mew ==

This is all that Mew's Pokédex entries say:

*Because it can use all kinds of moves, many scientists believe Mew to be the ancestor of Pokémon.
*Mew is said to possess the genetic composition of all Pokémon.
*Because it can learn any move, some people began research to see if it is the ancestor of all Pokémon.

First off, this kind of stuff didn't appear until Silver. Second off, it is ''very'' couched in uncertainty, and it is ''never'' said that its actually been shown to possess every type of DNA - ''only that its ability to perform any move has generated that rumor''.

Second off, several Pokémon are completely artificial, such as {{p|Grimer}}/{{p/Muk}}, {{p|Castform}}, or {{p|Porygon}}/{{p|Porygon2}}/{{p|Porygon-Z}}. So, how could Mew be considered their "ancestor", or have their DNA, if its supposed to be the "first Pokemon"? Wouldn't having the DNA of Pokemon who appeared completely separate from any genetic lineage instead imply Mew was their descendant?

Porygon is even said to be "A Pokémon that consists entirely of programming code." So, no DNA at all, and its upgrades are said to simply have had AI installed.

Even allowing for the monstrously egregious interpretations of genetics in the series, the idea that having all the DNA of a group makes you its ancestor is hogwash - its entirely the other way around.

Now, lets look at Arceus, and its info.
*It is told in mythology that this Pokémon was born before the universe even existed.
*It is described in mythology as the Pokémon that shaped the universe with its 1,000 arms.
* "Two beings of time and space set free from the Original One."
* "Three beings were born to bind time and space."
* "Two make matter and three make spirit, shaping the world."
* "The Original One breathed alone before the universe came."

Now, this is ''much'' more explicit than the Mew bit '''ever''' was. It makes it absolutely clear that Arceus came ''before even the universe itself, much less other Pokémon'', and that it in fact created the world and life itself. Once could claim that this is uncertain do to its status as "mythology", but that would be hilariously in denial of how the series has used mythology so far - as an origin story, not as something by definition uncertain or false.

How is there even a dispute about this? If it's a retcon at all, it's a fairly small one - it was clear from the beginning that the bit about Mew being the origin had a contradictory explanation.

Now, what could work is that Mew is supposed to be god-like like Arceus and other Legendaries - in this case, it would logically be some scion of life, which would in fact explain its design. If the bit about Mew containing all other DNA turned out to be "true", in the context of the franchise, then this would also make much more sense than the pseudo-scientific jargon used in Silver - Mew contains the DNA because it is the ultimate personification of life/birth, and the scientists are trying to force a contradictory explanation for the oddity in order to deny its true, supernatural origin.

So can we please stop claiming things like the D/P Pokedex "still stating that it's the ancestor of all pokémon", or that "it's no different than people believing Arceus is the creator"? [[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 06:14, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
:Creationism vs science? In my Pokémon? It's more likely than you think! '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 06:30, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

::ummm... "Uncertain", If I recall correctly, it can learn "Transform", which, unless I'm mistaken, involves the recombination of it's own DNA to match said pokemon that transforms. And, since Ditto's Pokédex entry hints that how it transforms involves it recombining it's DNA to match the pokémon it's trying to match, the same can easily be said for Mew. So, really, considering how it knows transform, and it can transform into a lot of pokémon, even legendaries that were supposedly created before it, it still has merit in regards to having the DNA of all pokémon, and thus being the ancestor of all pokémon.

::As for the Porygon/2/z example, considering the mere fact that Mew can transform into these three pokémon DESPITE apparantly not having their DNA, I think that those Pokémon have a miniscule amount of Mew's DNA (otherwise, how can Ditto [Or mew, for that matter] transform into them?].). Besides, just because they are composed entirely of AI (whether it's the free will kind or not doesn't matter) doesn't mean it can't have DNA. Take the Mega Man series (specifically, the Mega Man X subseries through the Mega Man ZX series.), the Reploids were mentioned to be complete Machines (all derived from X's design), and yet the games also mentions that they have DNA (Reploid "DNA" was used to form the Nightmare Virus, and also revive Necromances III, Harumachine, Blizzard Staggoff, and Copy X. Plus, Axl's ability involves him mimicking his enemies (and in the case of Command Mission and [Technically] ZX advent, even bosses.).

::And anyways, Mew can also transform into Grimer, Muk, and Castform, which, if Mew didn't have their DNA, then how can Mew OR Ditto even transform into them?

::Also, about it's pokedex entries, both of them contradict themselves. I mean, one says that it was born before the universe existed, and yet, the other hints that it was born a little while AFTER the Universe was created, and that all IT did was merely "shape" the universe. Plus, it doesn't even HAVE 1,000 arms in its sprite, and not only that, but It also apparantly can't even learn any attacks involving arms, such as all of the punch variants.

::as for the origin book, that ALSO doesn't mention Giratina (yet, anyways, for all we know, Platinum could add it in.), and plus, that same thing hinted that Dialga and Palkia are two halves of Arceus, but then, why cant they merge together (I mean, Dragon Quest, and Mephiles the Dark could do it without much trouble from programming data, so why cant D/P)?

::and anyways, the legends also hinted that Legendaries can't be captured by mere mortals, yet most of the crime syndicates, the Pyramid King and even the protagonist has been wielding these pokemon as if they were nothing.

::That's my ruling as to how the thing isn't retconned (well, that, as well as the fact that, if it was, then wouldn't they have removed the entry from the Pokédex?) [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 10:49, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

lets remember that game physics are different from animé physics. Dialga, Palkia and giratina symbolise physics of the Pokémon world: time, space and dimensions,so if Arceus is the master of them that wouldn't make sense:creationism and science don't go together. Mew can transform its appearance, but not the nature or unique functions of a Pokémon, and if we follow good sense we can also say that it can't copy Pokémon which evolved in a special way because their not ''original'' like trading its bioligical fusion of item and Pokémon DNA.--[[User:Nobody777|Nobody777]] 12:40, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

:I'm pretty sure that it can copy even those that evolved in a "special" way in even the Anime. Remember, Weavile evolves from Sneasel via the Sharp Claw item, which also fits under the special way, and despite that, Mew STILL transformed into that pokemon in the Lucario Movie. If it can evolve through something like that, I'm pretty certain that it is even ancestral to those pokemon who evolve via special means. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 13:50, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
:::Wait, '''''what?''''' You're saying that ''because it can do something that '''Ditto''' can do'', it must be the ancestor of all Pokemon? Wouldn't this also require Ditto to be the ancestor of all Pokemon?
:::'''Porygon''': Then you are making up things contradictory to the established in-game facts in order to force in your own fan-theory. Almost every Pokedex entry for the Porygon line reiterates that they have NOTHING but programming code.
:::'''MegaMan X''': It is never, ''ever'' stated that the robots are "completely mechanical" - that they have souls, DNA, and can merge with living things pretty much makes that theory impossible. DNA is a very specific thing - it's ''not'' a general concept about information derivation, it's a ''specific organic acid''.
:::'''Axl''': His ability has NOTHING to do with DNA, and is never claimed to. It's essentially analogous to what Transformers do.
:::'''Muk''': I didn't say that Mew didn't necessarily possess the DNA of all creatures, though that's not the only way to copy them. I said that claiming this meant it was the ancestor was so completely ignorant of evolution and genetics that it deserves ridicule.
:::However, Ditto is able to copy them because it is an amoeba, and can change the shape of its body at will. To be fair, it is ''once'' said to be able to copy the opponent's genetic code - which would only work AFTER seeing the opponent. As that is EXACTLY how Transform is described anyway, that theory is blown out of the water.
:::'''Arceus' Pokedex''': This is a bald-faced lie. The pokedex entries in no way claim that Arceus came to be after the Universe existed - at best, they claim he came before it, created it, and shaped it.
:::'''Arms''': Have you considered the fact that it could have lost them, or given them up? It is the only Arceus in existence, by the very necessity of its being, so its not going to be something like "They're all born without the arms". It "set free" all those legendaries from itself - maybe it made them from its arms, like so '''very''' many Creation Myths, ''especially the linked Pangu one''.
:::You could also consider that "1000" is often used in Japanese writing to mean "many", instead of a specific number, and as the trios of matter and spirit are considered extensions of Arceus, they could be its "appendages" in a spiritual sense. Seriously, that part of its Pokedex isn't contradictory ''at all''.
:::'''Merge''': What does this have to do with ''anything''? Why would Dragon Quest have any bearing on this?
:::'''Legends''': In the games? No, the legends don't claim that, so the fact that certain legendaries fight with trainers is not contradictory, regardless of your false assertion that it's "like nothing". In the anime, where the legends imply that messing with them is incredibly dangerous to the natural order...well, I'll just let you watch the movies, or something, and try to claim that it's "like nothing".
:::'''Remove''': Why would it be removed? It never claimed anything that was '''false''' - again, '''''it only claims that fictional scientists have a tenuous, uncertain belief based on one of its abilities'''''. The deliberate uncertainty of the Pokedex entries, in contrast to nearly every other Pokedex entry, even for Legendaries, has to be considered. If it's not simply a monstrous misunderstanding of genetics on the game designer's part, then it's almost certainly meant to be a reference to "Supernatural vs. Naturalist science".
::::''"If it can evolve through something like that, I'm pretty certain that it is even ancestral to those pokemon who evolve via special means."''
:::Again, this is inherently contradictory. If these are supposed to be new Pokemon, who only came into existence through a modern item, how could Mew possibly be said to already contain their DNA just because it can ''copy their form''? Remember, Porygon is said to be completely artificial, not an accident like Muk or Grimer.
::::''"lets remember that game physics are different from animé physics. Dialga, Palkia and giratina symbolise physics of the Pokémon world: time, space and dimensions,so if Arceus is the master of them that wouldn't make sense:creationism and science don't go together."'''
:::If Arceus is their master, then that would be in-game science. Science is the pursuit of ''truth'', not the pursuit of purely-materialistic explanations whether it's the truth or not.
:::Also, Giratina would symbolize the afterlife, or some other term for "The Other", not dimensions - "space", in the concept referred to by the triad, would necessarily contain dimensions already, parallel or measurable.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 05:46, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
::::I'm not SAYING that Ditto necessarily IS the ancestor, I only brought it into the picture since it's the only OTHER pokemon to know Transform. And besides which, the Pokédex entry for Ditto explicitly stated that it can transform by rearranging it's Genetic Structure (in other words, it's DNA) to that of it's target. It ALSO replicates their move set and, unless I'm mistaken, even their stats and natures.
::::actually, the Pokedex contradicted ITSELF in that case. I mean, if it doesn't have ANY DNA, then Ditto (not to mention Mew) couldn't transform into it OR it's family, and we all know that it can. Try and get a ditto, and try to face off against Porygon or it's family members in your games, and use transform against it if you don't believe me.
::::Ahem... when I said "Mega Man X" I mean from the Mega Man X saga ALL THE WAY to Mega Man ZX saga. In Mega Man Zero 4: ''Intro: The Reploids... They were robots designed to look like humans... these '''technical marvels''' were given unique personalities and were intended to be the perfect workers and the perfect partners of mankind...'' Later, Dr. Weil says something that would hint at Reploid being COMPLETELY mechanical. This is when Zero encounters him at the Ragnarōk core: Dr. Weil: ''Justice!? Freedom!? Worthless ideals! '''You Reploids are Just Machines, but you started a war a long time ago in the name of freedom!''' And Humans! Look what they did to me! Driving Me away while spurting the word "Justice!"'' And don't assume that he knows nothing about Reploid Physiology since he worked on reviving Reploids prior to his banishment from Neo Arcadia, and besides which, the reason why he was banished was because he created Dark Elf and augmented Zero's original body to become the horrific Omega, as well as instigated the Elf Wars. That shows that he knows quite a LOT about Reploids.
::::as for Axl, it was indeed DNA. in fact, Model A, whose personality (as well as his abilities and the form that Grey/Ashe take on when Megamerging with Model A) is clearly Based off of Axl, and would have easily been labeled as a reincarnation of Axl if Master Albert didn't say that it was actually "Model Albert". Heck, after beating Buckfire in the game, he explicitly mentions that he absorbed Buckfire's DNA, which would allow Grey/ashe to transform and utilize his abilities at will.
::::It also mentioned that Mew possessed the DNA of all Pokémon, though (and anyways, just saying that it "possesses the Genetic code for "pokémon" pretty much implies ALL Pokemon.). And that's what I was saying about Transform the whole time. I mean, Ancestors have to have the DNA of ALL Pokémon to actually be labeled as an Ancestor of all pokémon.
::::As for the Arceus entry, the way Pearl's Pokedex entry was worded made it seem as though it Shaped the universe as soon as it was born. And anyways, the Origin Myth implied that Arceus was the creator of the universe, whileas Pearl's Dex entry stated that it merely shaped it.
::::How can a god lose arms? I mean, Did Ares become one-armed? No, he didn't, and he has fought several wars where something like Decapitation or losing some part of limbs can be considered inevitable, esp. during his time.
::::Lets see, because the Origin thing mentioned that Dialga and Palkia are two halves of Arceus, and, if they were truly two halves of the same being, then having them both in your party would gain you a new arceus. but it doesn't.
::::Let's see, because only the Crime syndicates, the Hero/ine, and in one case, a BF leader, was able to capture legendaries. Also, in the Anime, the only time that the legendaries actually CAUSED a natural imbalance was in "Pokemon 2000", which even THEN, it was hinted that it was actually caused by territorial disputes rather than because it was captured in and of itself. most of the other movies and anime related things that featured legendaries didn't have the legendaries causing all Hades to break loose right when they were captured. Besides, as common in many mythos, A god simply cannot be captured by Mortals.
::::Because, if they didn't HAVE DNA, then Mew and Ditto CAN'T transform, since the move Transform requires the Genetic Code of a pokémon. Besides, that was directed at the guy who said that those who evolve via trades and items can't be related to Mew.
::::No, it's in game Mythology. The Origin story is nothing more than one big myth.
::::And yet it's constantly implied that Giratina is listed among Dialga and Palkia.
::::Anyways, that's all for now. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 11:25, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
::'''Ditto''': Your logic was that, because it can use Transform, it must be the ancestor. Either this implies that Ditto is also the ancestor (a contradiction), or you need to not make such claims. Its inherently self-contradictory.
::While Ditto's profile ''does'' sometimes say that it '''copies''' (not already possesses) the opponent's genetic code, it also says that it is "Capable of reorganizing its cells to transform into an exact duplicate of its enemy. It is usually a shapeless blob.", and that it can transform to resemble a rock. It is explicitly clear from the Pokedex entries, the description of Transform, and how Ditto is presented in the series, that it is merely ''reshaping it's '''own''' genetic code to '''resemble''' something else''. Because, as we all know, ROCK's DON'T HAVE DNA.
::The description of Transform, and how Ditto uses it, does ''not'' require that the opponent has DNA, only that Ditto does. ''Please keep this in mind''.
::The definition of "machine" does not require that something be purely inorganic in nature, and neither of the quotes you provided really even claims anything near that. Weil's quote, in that case, is emotional, and almost certainly pointing out his view that Reploid's are inferior and by nature servants of humans. This is the view used by ''all'' the villains in the Zero series, and is actually a ''huge'' part of the conflict. Play the games again.
::'''Axl''': No, it's not DNA. It's never said to be DNA. It's said to be a special ability of his, to transform his body. Model A, while designed to be a callback to Axl, is NOT Axl. However, I grant you that the Shittenou are said to have been derived from X's DNA. As Reploids are ''never'' said to be completely mechanical, and DNA is only mentioned as belonging to X and the Shittenou (notice that in ZX, Reploids and organics ''have been combined anyway'' - play the game again), it doesn't support your claim that something purely mechanical or programmed can still have DNA.
::'''Ancestor'': No, it says that some scientists ''claim'' that based on its abilities. '''You need to get that through your head''', and stop claiming that the Pokedex outright claims these things. You should also learn that your concept of "ancestry" is completely, utterly flawed, with no basis in any kind of genetics, and absolutely ridiculous. I'm sorry to be so harsh, but it's outright folly. That's NOT how an ancestor would be determined.
::'''Pearl''': You are again twisting or inserting things into the Pokedex that are not there in order to fit your views.
::'''Arms''': Hephaestus. Hercules. Pangu. Ymir. Odin. Please, think before spouting - gods are ''very'' prone to lose parts of their bodies.
::'''Halves''': First off, it doesn't. It claims they are two parts of Arceus. There is ''no basis'' in science ''or'' mythology for what you claim - Pangu and Ymir don't suddenly come back just because all the pieces are there. Two halves of an apple don't rejoin to a full apple just because they are there.
::'''Capture''': Pokemon 2000, in which the sea itself sprung forth, Pokemon the Movie, in which the world almost drowned, Pokemon 3, in which UNOWN nearly crystallized the earth, Pokemon 4Ever, in which messing with Celebi caused the forest to become a rampaging monster, Jirachi Wishmaker, in which messing with Jirachi caused the earth to come alive as a rampaging monster, Rise of Darkrai, in which Dialga and Palkia being disturbed nearly rent apart time and space...nearly every movie follows this format. Don't be so dense. Why would the world ''immediately'' come apart, anyway? If you removed the moon, it would still take some time for the seas to destabilize. As for your assertion that gods cannot be captured - you clearly have no knowledge of mythology. Such a thing is rife throughout Norse, Greek, Roman, Chinese, Japanese, Native American, African....nearly every mythology has such a thing happen. Only Abrahamic religions, where the ''sole'' God has absolute power and absolute perfection, has a deity invulnerable to human effort.
::'''New Pokemon''': First off, I didn't say all new Pokemon didn't have DNA, only that some of these included Pokemon who are explicitly said to be purely artificial. Second off, ''you really need to actually look stuff up before claiming things'' - your claims about, well, damn near everything in this discussion have almost no basis in what the game's have actually said. Transform requires the USER's DNA to be changed to cause the USER to resemble the opponent. There is no intake of DNA, and it would be ridiculous to claim that Ditto already has a databank of all DNA (remember, it can turn into Ash - is Ditto Ash's ancestor?)
::...it would be mythology (a story which explains the origin of the world) AND science (an experimentally fact-checked story which explains an empirical truth). Mythology is ''not'' equivalent to "lies and untruths".
::'''Giratina''': ...um, yeah. Which is why I explained that it can't represent something ruled by one of the others.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 22:37, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
:::As I said in my previous post, I wasn't implying that Ditto is the ANCESTOR (I only brought it into the picture because it's the only pokémon aside from Mew to learn Transform. Did I SAY that Ditto was the ancestor of all pokemon? no, I didn't.).
:::And that's why I differentiated between Mew and Ditto, see, Ditto needed to copy the DNA, yet it is hinted repeatedly even in DP that Mew's DNA contains all of Pokemon (more than just moves, also stats and typings to a certain extent [I.E. Transform]. Heck, it can even utilize Judgement if it wanted to (Not by move tutor's of course, but definitely via Metronome.). That's what makes Mew the ancestor. Besides, there's more to being an ancestor than just being there first. You must ALSO be genetically related. I'm not going into the DP thing since you're obviously missing the idea.
:::Ok, I'l agree with the Norse gods (though to be fair, it wasn't caused by Mortals), but Hercules was a half god, meaning, he can still be mutilated significantly by mortals with visible scarring.
:::Ok, I already covered Pokemon 2000, and the Unown weren't TRUE Legendary Pokemon. Also, The only thing caused by the capture of Celebi was the forest pokemon being POed, that Mecha didn't count since Iron Masked marauder made that mech. All Celebi did was just act as the core. Heck, Ask Blackjack Palazzo if you don't believe me, since she also mentioned that as well. I'll acknowledge Jirachi, though. As for the Rise of Darkrai, Humans weren't even responsible for Dialga and Palkia fighting, they just met when they ended up in a bad mood. Also, Mewtwo tried to do those actions to try and earn the right to exist (though most of that was eliminated from the Dub, sadly.). As for what you stated, if gods CAN be captured by mere mortals, EXPLAIN why Pirithous couldn't even capture Persephone without having his own butt stuck on a bench for all of eternity?! Heck, name one story where Zeus or any of the PURE gods were captured by mere mortals and forced to do their bidding by the Mortals command. Also, just FYI, I just mastered AP Latin, so DON'T say I'm not knowledgeable in Mythology in the Graeco-roman kind at least.
:::And for the last time, I didn't IMPLY nor state that Ditto even HAD a databank of DNA, that attribute belongs to Mew, and Mew alone.
:::Sheesh, sometimes you guys are impossible.[[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 23:00, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
::::It doesn't matter whether you explicitly say that Ditto is the ancestor - you're reasoning relies on claiming that the ability to use Transform is an indicator of having the DNA, and being the ancestor. Just by looking at Ditto, that's false. Being snarky about it doesn't change the fact that you're wrong.
::::Clefairy also has metronome, so Metronome cannot be an indicator of being the ancestor. To be the ancestor of all Pokemon, all Pokemon must be your descendants. Dialga and Palkia are clearly and explicitly descendants of Arceus only, unless Mew is Arceus' ancestor, which would be contradictory to what we are told. Again, you are confusing something the game frequently reiterates is a rumor, with what the game puts forth as exposition.
::::...what the hell do you mean "to be fair"? I never claimed that mortals caused the gods to lose body parts, and its completely irrelevant to discussion. As for Hercules, he became a full god after his original death.
::::....okay, I'm just going to post back your original post on this sub-topic, because you seem to have a bad memory:
:::''"and anyways, the legends also hinted that Legendaries can't be captured by mere mortals, yet most of the crime syndicates, the Pyramid King and even the protagonist has been wielding these pokemon '''as if they were nothing.'''"''
::::Mewtwo, the only Pokemon I can think of that was actually wielded by a "crime syndicate", caused those actions because it was PO'd about ''being used by humans''.
::::As far as I can tell, your implication with that passage was that Legendaries weren't the god-like beings that the legends indicated - ''yet their actions, even in The Rise of Darkrai, explicitly demonstrates that they are''. Whether a human actively screws with them or not, they ''can and will'' rip the world apart if they're in a bad mood. I'm also unaware of the legends implying that it's impossible to capture them - only that it's impossible to safely enslave them.
::::Wow...you pass high school latin, and you deem it logical to choose ''one'' example from ''one'' mythology to claim that ''all'' mortals in ''all'' mythology will never have the upper hand against ''any'' god? I'm definitely out of my league here!
::::Some other examples:
:::::''...Zeus then ordered Hades to chain Sisyphus in Tartarus. Sisyphus slyly asked Thanatos to try the chains to show how they worked. When Thanatos did so, Sisyphus secured them and threatened Hades. This caused an uproar, and no human could die until Ares (who was annoyed that his battles had lost their fun because his opponents would not die) intervened, freeing Thanatos and sending Sisyphus to Tartarus.''
:::::''Tantalus offered up his son, Pelops, as a sacrifice to the gods. He cut Pelops up, boiled him, and served him up as food for the gods. The gods were said to be aware of his plan for their feast, so they didn't touch the offering; only Demeter, distraught by the loss of her daughter, Persephone, "did not realize what it was" and ate part of the boy's shoulder.''
::::Yes, those who mess with the gods get it in the end - but isn't this ''exactly'' what happens to those who mess with the Legendary Pokemon? Even innocent play with pseudo-legendaries like Unown can endanger the world.
::::...I don't know how I can make this more plain:
:::::'''''You claimed that Mew's ability to use Transform meant it had to be the ancestor, and brought up Ditto as a "evidence" for your interpretation of how Transform worked.''''' Now, when confronted with this, you claim that the ability to use Transform does not imply something is the ancestor. '''''Make up your mind'''''.
:::::Actually, to be fair, you don't actually bring up this glaring inconsistency. You just try to avoid the contradiction, and try to "eat your cake and have it too."

To summarize:
#Mythology, as portrayed in the series, is quite reliable.
#Arceus' mythology is neither self-contradictory, nor unique among real-world mythology.
#The claim about Mew having the DNA of all Pokemon is not only contradictory to the explicit facts about artificial Pokemon such as Porygon, but never even claimed as fact, only as a rumor.
#Transform, as described in-game and as demonstrated by Ditto, does ''not'' require a databank of all DNA. It merely requires the ability to change shape, or to replicate another's DNA.
#Metronome, as described in-game and as demonstrated by Clefairy, also does not require a databank of all DNA.
#Claiming that Mew is the ancestor of all Pokemon is inherently contradictory to the stated claims about Arceus, Dialga, Palkia, Mesprit, Axelf, Uxie, and Heatran.
#Even before considering the contradictions in the total mythology, '''''The idea that having a copy of all of a group's DNA implies you are their ancestor is inherently ridiculous and contradictory. It is the opposite of how genetics and inheritance actually works, even on the most basic level. It can be immediately refuted by a thought-examination of a child and his two, un-related parents.'''''

[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 08:08, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Umm... Hello. May I be permitted to submit my own wild abstractions?(*looks around*) Thank you. Well, what if Arceus began by creating the Universe and then created Mew as a template for all Pokémon who then flew off and was disregarded whilst Arceus was busy creating the 'gods' of Time and Space... Or something...[[User:Monblazon|Monblazon]] 21:15, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
::That would work. Mew could conceivably be the progenitor or ancestor of ''most'' Pokemon, but not all.
::Also, I'm sorry, it turns out Axl's Copy Shot ''does'' use DNA Cores, so I apologize for being wrong about that bit.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 07:26, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
:::Thank you! I am good at filling in inconsistencies in canon like that...[[User:Monblazon|Monblazon]] 18:53, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
::::Do we call this the creation paradox? '''[[User:Optimatum|<sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Optimatum|Talk]]|[[User:Optimatum/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''10:38 3 Sep 2008'''''
:::::I'm not sure what you're referring to, as the only creation paradox I know of would require Mew to have travelled through time and created Arceus, which is in contradiction to what we've been given ("The Original One breathed alone"), as well as not based in any ability of Mew's that we know of. Could you explain what you mean?[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 19:33, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
::::::That would be a Temporal Paradox. The actual Paradox here is that since Mew is supposed to be the ancestor of ALL Pokémon, and Arceus is a Pokémon, the original, then one must contradict the other - which is the meaning of the word paradox. More or less...[[User:Monblazon|Monblazon]] 19:48, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
[un-indent] Look, I just feel the need to point this out. Do ''we'' have ''God's'' DNA? I don't see what's so contradictory about Arceus making Mew which all Pokémon (with the exception of, one assumes, Arceus's five avatars) may have eventually [Darwinian] evolved from. (...I just completely described intelligent design, didn't I?)--[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 20:04, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, and anyways, if we were to go by the definition of "Retcon", the statement of Mew believed to be the ancestor of all pokemon wouldn't even exist in D/P (Heck, they could have gotten to mention one of Mew's OLD Dex entries.) [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 20:11, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

check the DP Pokédex entry it says that scientists ''belive'' it is not known but believed in, no proof so wait for official information or this will end in a pardox.--[[User:Nobody777|Nobody777]] 16:45, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

:It is a paradox. But not a very vicious one.[[User:Monblazon|Monblazon]] 17:43, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

== STAB ==

The movesets seem to automatically assume Arceus is of the Fighting Type. I am unfamiliar with how this is coded, and so don't know how to fix it - is there anyone who can fix it?[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 06:00, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
:Don't you mean Dragon-type? --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 06:03, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
::Everything on the page assumes that Arceus is a randomly-generated type. It's a bit of code TTE added.--[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 06:42, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
:::Arceus is a {{type2|{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|0=???|1=Normal|2=Fighting|3=Flying|4=Poison|5=Ground|6=Rock|7=Bug|8=Ghost|9=Steel|10=Fire|11=Water|12=Grass|13=Electric|14=Psychic|15=Ice|16=Dragon|17=Dark}}}}... everyone knows that.
:::Yeah. My random code that changes depending on the time that the page is last loaded to cache. Takes the Unix time (seconds since 1/1/1970) and then does a modulo division by 18, assigning one of the eighteen forms of Arceus to each remainder. Unown does a similar thing, but you only notice it in the evoboxes. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 07:04, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

== Empty ==

There is no content in the "In the anime", "In the manga" and "In the TCG". So why not somebody delete it?
[[User:FireHazard|FireHazard]] 03:07, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
:So when it comes out we can put it there.All pages fit a designated template[[User:Darth Cookie Monster|DCM]]

== Moves ==
why is the movelist not where its supposed to be????
or is it just my computer????[[User:Dion24|Dion24]] 11:03, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

:It looks fine to me. What problem are you seeing? ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 17:49, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

::The level up nd TM learnsets appear at the top of the page over all the writing [[User:Dion24|Dion24]] 07:53, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

that happened to me, and I realized that happened because I browsed all of the arceus formes or most of them.--[[User:Nobody777|Nobody777]] 13:15, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
:Everything on the page goes wired after you press show sprites and the movelist and everything else goes weird, and this goes for all pages. It might only be my computer, but it should be changed to suit all. --[[User:Wowy|Wowy]] 00:51, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
::I don't understand... What browser are you using? '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 07:01, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

User talk:Monblazon

2008-09-05T17:41:12Z

Monblazon: /* Welcome */

==Welcome==
Welcome to [[Bulbapedia]], Monblazon!

As a new user, you may wish to learn a few things that will be useful in your editing:
*For a basic overview of wiki code, see [[Help:Editing|this page]].
*Read over the {{bp|style primer}} before making your edits. It is a basic outline of Bulbapedia style. For a more in-depth set of rules, see the {{bp|manual of style}}.
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*A list of pages that are linked to, but have not been created, can be found at [[Special:Wantedpages|this page]]. A list of short articles that may require more information can be found {{cat|stubs|here}}, while a list of articles that need improvement can be found {{cat|articles needing improvement|here}}.
*For a future capture, release, trade, or evolution of a Pokémon belonging to a main character of the {{pkmn|anime}}, please do not create or move the page to reflect your suspicions, even if they are shared by many others. Policy here is to wait until the episode in which the event happens takes place is aired, unless there is substantial evidence for the suspicion (such as [[Brock's Happiny]] being held in his arms).
*Image uploading is done on [[Bulbagarden Archives]], a separate wiki accessible through the toolbox in the sidebar. This is done so that both Bulbapedia and [[Bulbanews]] have access to the images uploaded. To activate your account at the Archives and Bulbanews, please login there using the same username and password you use here on Bulbapedia.
*If you want to make a page about a character you made up, please create it at User:Monblazon/(name), not merely (name). Bulbapedia's main namespace is reserved for ''actual, official Pokémon, items, characters, and locations''. Also, please try to make sure that subpages are not categorized by templates used within.
*Having said this, please make sure that you do contribute adequately to the main namespace. Bulbapedia is not MySpace or Facebook.
*A list of the admins that you can contact in case of a problem can be found [[Special:Listusers/sysop|here]].

Thank you, and have a good time editing here! --[[User:Martonimos|Martonimos]][[User talk:Martonimos|((Argh]]|[[Special:Contributions/Martonimos|Blargh))]] 21:03, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Ah, thank you![[User:Monblazon|Monblazon]] 17:41, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Vaporeon (Pokémon)

2008-09-05T17:39:51Z

Monblazon:

{{PokémonPrevNext | prev=Eevee | next=Jolteon }}
{{PokémonInfobox|
name=Vaporeon |
jname=シャワーズ |
tmname=Showers |
image=134Vaporeon.png |
size=150 |
caption=Artwork from FR/LG |
ndex=134 |
jdex=181 |
hdex=289 |
fdex=183 |
adex=098 |
typen=1 |
type1=Water |
type2= |
species=Bubble Jet |
height-ftin=3′03″ |
height-m=1.0 |
weight-lbs=63.9 |
weight-kg=29.0 |
abilityn=1 |
ability1=Water Absorb |
ability2= |
egggroupn=1 |
egggroup1=Ground |
egggroup2= |
hatchsteps=8,960 |
effortyield=2 HP |
expyield=196 |
lv100exp=1,000,000 |
gender=both |
female=12.5 |
male=87.5 |
color=Blue |
catchrate=45 |
body=08 |
pokefordex=vaporeon |
generation=1 |
footnotes=}}
'''Vaporeon''' ([[List of Japanese Pokémon names|Japanese]]: '''シャワーズ''' ''Showers'') is a {{type2|Water}} Pokémon.

==Biology==
===Physiology===
Vaporeon is the result of an {{P|Eevee}}'s exposure to the radiation of a [[Water Stone]]. Vaporeon is a composite creature sharing physical traits of dogs, cats, and fish. Vaporeon's body is light-blue and has a white collar. Vaporeon has yellow ears made of webbing and has a fin on its head resembling its ears. Vaporeon has blue ridges that run down the length of its spine and on to its tail-fin. Vaporeon's molecular structure is close to water, and its body glitters when sunlight hits at certain angles because of it.

Because it's a fully evolved Pokémon, it can learn {{m|Hyper Beam}} and {{m|Giga Impact}}.
====Gender differences====
None.
[[Image:Vaporeon disappear.jpg|left|thumb|A Vaporeon melting into water molecules.]]

====Special abilities====
Vaporeon are highly adapted to aquatic life. Unlike its pre-evolution, it has the ability to breathe underwater. As stated previously, they have a unique molecular structure. They have the ability to "melt" into a body of water and disappear completely from view. They can also manipulate water molecules, giving them the ability to learn {{t|Water}}-type attacks their previous evolutions could not.
[[Image:Vaporeon running on water.jpg|right|thumb|A Vaporeon running on the water.]]
Vaporeon also have the ability to walk on water.

===Behavior===
Vaporeon are very difficult to observe in the wild, as they are somewhat uncommon. When they are in the water, they are virtually impossible to see. While they are much easier to see while they are resting onshore, they possess the {{m2|Acid Armor|ability}} to rearrange themselves on a molecular level, causing themselves to "melt" into the water. It is likely that many mermaid stories were spawned by Vaporeon sightings, as their tails resemble those of mermaids.
===Habitat===
[[Image:Urban.gif|left|frame|[[List of Pokémon by habitat#Urban Pokémon|Urban Pokémon]]]]
Vaporeon are always found close to water, and prefer large, clean lakes.

===Diet===
{{main|Pokémon food}}

==In the anime==
[[Image:Vaporeon anime.jpg|thumb|right|[[Galea]]'s Vaporeon from ''[[AG152|On Olden Pond]]''.]]
Vaporeon first appeared in ''[[EP040|The Battling Eevee Brothers]]'', under the ownership of [[Eevee brothers#Rainer|Rainer]].

{{Ash}} {{pkmn|battle}}d against a Vaporeon in the [[Pokémon League]] Entrance Exam.

A Vaporeon was one of the Pokémon that was captured and cloned by {{an|Mewtwo}} in ''[[Mewtwo Strikes Back]]''.

Vaporeon was also seen under the ownership of one the [[Kimono Girl|Kimono Sisters]] in ''[[EP183|Trouble's Brewing]]'' and ''[[EP226|Espeon Not Included]]''.

An old woman named [[Galea]] owned a Vaporeon in ''[[AG152|On Olden Pond]]''.

==In the manga==
===Pokémon Special===
{{Special|Red}} temporarily controlled a Vaporeon, which was actually his {{p|Eevee}} switching between its evolved forms. It soon evolved into an Espeon, which disallowed any further switching.

==In the TCG==
{{main|Vaporeon (TCG)}}

==Game data==
===Pokédex entries===
{{Dex
|type=water
|gen=1
|redbluedex=Lives close to water. Its long tail is ridged with a fin which is often mistaken for a mermaid's.
|yellowdex=Its cell structure is similar to water molecules. It will melt away and become invisible in water.
|stadiumdex=Found quietly resting by lake shores. Its cell structure is similar to water, so it can invisibly melt into water.
|golddex=When Vaporeon's fins begin to vibrate, it is a sign that rain will come within a few hours.
|silverdex=It prefers beautiful shores. With cells similar to water molecules, it could melt in water.
|crystaldex=As it uses the fins on the tip of its tail to swim, it blends with the water perfectly.
|stadium2dex=
|rubydex=Vaporeon underwent a spontaneous mutation and grew fins and gills that allow it to live underwater. This Pokémon has the ability to freely control water.
|sapphiredex=Vaporeon underwent a spontaneous mutation and grew fins and gills that allow it to live underwater. This Pokémon has the ability to freely control water.
|emeralddex=Vaporeon underwent a spontaneous mutation and grew fins and gills that allow them to live underwater. They have the ability to freely control water.
|firereddex=Its body's cellular structure is similar to the molecular composition of water. It can melt invisibly in water.
|leafgreendex=Lives close to water. Its long tail is ridged with a fin which is often mistaken for a mermaid's.
|diamonddex=It has evolved to be suitable for an aquatic life. It can invisibly melt away into water.
|pearldex=It has evolved to be suitable for an aquatic life. It can invisibly melt away into water.
|}}

===Game locations===
{{Availability|
type=Water |
gen=1 |
rbarea=[[Evolve]] {{p|Eevee}} |
yarea=[[Evolve]] {{p|Eevee}} |
gsarea=[[Evolve]] {{p|Eevee}} |
carea=[[Evolve]] {{p|Eevee}} |
xdarea=[[Evolve]] {{p|Eevee}} |
frlgarea=[[Evolve]] {{p|Eevee}} |
dparea=[[Evolve]] {{p|Eevee}} |
palarea=Field |
}}

====In side games====
{| border="1" style="border: 1px solid #999; border-collapse: collapse; background: white; margin: auto;" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="2"
|- style="background: #{{water color}};"
! Game
! Location
|-
| [[Pokémon Trozei!]]
| Phobos Submarine Mr. Who's Den
|-
| [[Pokémon Mystery Dungeon|Pokémon Mystery Dungeon (Red and Blue)]]
| Evolve from {{p|Eevee}}
|-
| [[Pokémon Ranger]]
| [[Fiore Temple]]
|-
| [[Pokémon Mystery Dungeon 2|Pokémon Mystery Dungeon (Time and Darkness)]]
| [[End Lake]] (B1-B24)
|-
| [[Pokémon Ranger: Shadows of Almia]]
| [[Almia Castle]] [[Asoheru Tower]]
|}

===Base stats===
{{BaseStats with RBY|
HP=130 |
Attack=65 |
Defense=60 |
SpAtk=110 |
SpDef=95 |
Special=110 |
Speed=65 }}

===Type effectiveness===
{{DP type effectiveness|
type1=water|
Normal= 100 |
Fighting=100 |
Flying= 100 |
Poison= 100 |
Ground= 100 |
Rock= 100 |
Bug= 100 |
Ghost= 100 |
Steel= 50 |

Fire= 50 |
Water= 0 |
Grass= 200 |
Electric=200 |
Psychic= 100 |
Ice= 50 |
Dragon= 100 |
Dark= 100 |

notes=yes|
waterabsorb=yes|
newwater=½}}

===Learnset===
{{intro template|learnset intro|Vaporeon}}
====By [[Level|leveling up]]====
{{movelist|water|water|4|1|Vaporeon}}
{{mlentry4|Start|Tackle|Normal|Physical|35|95|35|Tough|3}}
{{mlentry4|Start|Tail Whip|Normal|Status|—|100|30|Cute|2}}
{{mlentry4|Start|Helping Hand|Normal|Status|—|—|20|Smart|1}}
{{mlentry4|8|Sand-Attack|Ground|Status|—|100|15|Cute|2}}
{{mlentry4|15|Water Gun|Water|Special|40|100|25|Cute|3||'''}}
{{mlentry4|22|Quick Attack|Normal|Physical|40|100|30|Cool|2}}
{{mlentry4|29|Bite|Dark|Physical|60|100|25|Tough|3}}
{{mlentry4|36|Aurora Beam|Ice|Special|65|100|20|Beauty|2}}
{{mlentry4|43|Aqua Ring|Water|Status|—|—|20|Beauty|0}}
{{mlentry4|50|Last Resort|Normal|Physical|130|100|5|Cute|0}}
{{mlentry4|57|Haze|Ice|Status|—|—|30|Beauty|2}}
{{mlentry4|64|Acid Armor|Poison|Status|—|—|40|Tough|0}}
{{mlentry4|71|Hydro Pump|Water|Special|120|80|5|Beauty|2||'''}}
{{movelist/note|4}}

====By [[TM]]/[[HM]]====
{{movelisttm|water|water|4|1|Vaporeon}}
{{mlentry4|[[TM03]]|Water Pulse|Water|Special|60|100|20|Beauty|2||'''}}
{{mlentry4|[[TM05]]|Roar|Normal|Status|—|100|20|Cool|0}}
{{mlentry4|[[TM06]]|Toxic|Poison|Status|—|85|10|Smart|2}}
{{mlentry4|[[TM07]]|Hail|Ice|Status|—|—|10|Beauty|2}}
{{mlentry4|[[TM10]]|Hidden Power|Normal|Special|—|100|15|Smart|1}}
{{mlentry4|[[TM11]]|Sunny Day|Fire|Status|—|—|5|Beauty|2}}
{{mlentry4|[[TM13]]|Ice Beam|Ice|Special|95|100|15|Beauty|2}}
{{mlentry4|[[TM14]]|Blizzard|Ice|Special|120|70|5|Beauty|2}}
{{mlentry4|[[TM15]]|Hyper Beam|Normal|Special|150|90|15|Cool|2}}
{{mlentry4|[[TM17]]|Protect|Normal|Status|—|—|10|Cute|0}}
{{mlentry4|[[TM18]]|Rain Dance|Water|Status|—|—|5|Tough|2}}
{{mlentry4|[[TM21]]|Frustration|Normal|Physical|—|100|20|Cute|2}}
{{mlentry4|[[TM23]]|Iron Tail|Steel|Physical|100|75|15|Cool|2}}
{{mlentry4|[[TM27]]|Return|Normal|Physical|—|100|20|Cute|2}}
{{mlentry4|[[TM28]]|Dig|Ground|Physical|80|100|10|Smart|1}}
{{mlentry4|[[TM30]]|Shadow Ball|Ghost|Special|80|100|15|Smart|2}}
{{mlentry4|[[TM32]]|Double Team|Normal|Status|—|—|15|Cool|2}}
{{mlentry4|[[TM42]]|Facade|Normal|Physical|70|100|20|Cute|2}}
{{mlentry4|[[TM43]]|Secret Power|Normal|Physical|—|100|20|Smart|2}}
{{mlentry4|[[TM44]]|Rest|Psychic|Status|—|—|10|Cute|0}}
{{mlentry4|[[TM45]]|Attract|Normal|Status|—|100|15|Cute|2}}
{{mlentry4|[[TM55]]|Brine|Water|Special|65|100|10|Smart|2||'''}}
{{mlentry4|[[TM58]]|Endure|Normal|Status|—|—|10|Tough|2}}
{{mlentry4|[[TM68]]|Giga Impact|Normal|Physical|150|90|5|Beauty|2}}
{{mlentry4|[[TM78]]|Captivate|Normal|Status|—|100|20|Beauty|2}}
{{mlentry4|[[TM82]]|Sleep Talk|Normal|Status|—|—|10|Cute|3}}
{{mlentry4|[[TM83]]|Natural Gift|Normal|Physical|—|100|15|Cool|2}}
{{mlentry4|[[TM87]]|Swagger|Normal|Status|—|90|15|Cute|2}}
{{mlentry4|[[TM90]]|Substitute|Normal|Status|—|—|10|Smart|1}}
{{mlentry4|[[HM03]]|Surf|Water|Special|95|100|15|Beauty|2||'''}}
{{mlentry4|[[HM04]]|Strength|Normal|Physical|80|100|15|Tough|3}}
{{mlentry4|[[HM06]]|Rock Smash|Fighting|Physical|40|100|15|Tough|2}}
{{mlentry4|[[HM07]]|Waterfall|Water|Physical|80|100|15|Tough|3||'''}}
{{movelist/note|4}}

====By {{pkmn|breeding}}====
{{eggmoves|water|water|4|1|Vaporeon}}
{{mlentry4|{{p|Snubbull}}, {{p|Granbull}} {{p|Teddiursa}} {{p|Phanpy}} {{p|Skitty}} {{p|Minun}} {{p|Pachirisu}} {{p|Buneary}}, {{p|Lopunny}} {{p|Glameow}}, {{p|Purugly}}|Charm|Normal|Status|—|100|20|Cute|2}}
{{mlentry4|{{p|Mankey}} {{p|Teddiursa}}, {{p|Ursaring}} {{p|Zigzagoon}}, {{p|Linoone}} {{p|Slakoth}}, {{p|Vigoroth}}, {{p|Slaking}} {{p|Skitty}}|Covet|Normal|Physical|40|100|40|Cute|0}}
{{mlentry4|{{p|Torkoal}}|Curse|???|Status|—|—|10|Tough|0}}
{{mlentry4|{{p|Teddiursa}}, {{p|Ursaring}} {{p|Mawile}} {{p|Plusle}} {{p|Minun}}|Fake Tears|Dark|Status|—|100|20|Smart|2}}
{{mlentry4|{{p|Dunsparce}} {{p|Phanpy}}, {{p|Donphan}} {{p|Zigzagoon}} {{p|Slakoth}}, {{p|Vigoroth}}, {{p|Slaking}} {{p|Torkoal}} {{p|Spinda}}|Flail|Normal|Physical|—|100|15|Cute|2}}
{{mlentry4|{{p|Aipom}}, {{p|Ambipom}}|Tickle|Normal|Status|—|100|20|Cute|2}}
{{mlentry4|{{p|Pikachu}}, {{p|Raichu}} {{p|Clefairy}}, {{p|Clefable}} {{p|Jigglypuff}}, {{p|Wigglytuff}} {{p|Skitty}}, {{p|Delcatty}}|Wish|Normal|Status|—|—|10|Cute|2|*}}
{{mlentry4|{{p|Wooper}}, {{p|Quagsire}} {{p|Dunsparce}} {{p|Slakoth}}, {{p|Vigoroth}}, {{p|Slaking}} {{p|Bidoof}}, {{p|Bibarel}} {{p|Hippopotas}}, {{p|Hippowdon}}|Yawn|Normal|Status|—|—|10|Cute|2}}
{{eggmoves/note|4}}

====By [[Move tutor|tutoring]]====
{{tutor|water|water|4|1|Vaporeon}}
{{mtentry4|yes|yes|no|Body Slam|Normal|Physical|85|100|15|Tough|3}}
{{mtentry4|yes|yes|no|Double-Edge|Normal|Physical|120|100|15|Tough|0}}
{{mtentry4|no|yes|no|Endure|Normal|Status|—|—|10|Tough|2}}
{{mtentry4|no|yes|no|Icy Wind|Ice|Special|55|95|15|Beauty|2}}
{{mtentry4|yes|yes|no|Mimic|Normal|Status|—|—|10|Cute|0}}
{{mtentry4|no|yes|no|Mud-Slap|Ground|Special|20|100|10|Cute|3}}
{{mtentry4|no|yes|no|Sleep Talk|Normal|Status|—|—|10|Cute|3}}
{{mtentry4|no|yes|no|Snore|Normal|Special|40|100|15|Cute|3}}
{{mtentry4|yes|yes|no|Substitute|Normal|Status|—|—|10|Smart|1}}
{{mtentry4|no|yes|no|Swagger|Normal|Status|—|90|15|Cute|2}}
{{mtentry4|no|yes|no|Swift|Normal|Special|60|—|20|Cool|2}}
{{tutor/note|4}}

===Side game data===

{{Side game|
type=water |
ndex=134 |
Pinevo=yes |
Trozei=yes |
rarity=Rare |
Dungeon=yes |
body=1 |
rate=Evolve |
area=Transform Forest |
P1= My body's made of water! |
P2= It's not good. My health is down to half. |
P3= I'm out of power... It's hopeless... |
PL= Leveled up! I feel the power of water surging! |
Partner=no |
Ranger=yes |
typeG= Water |
typeA= Water |
field= Soak x2 |
loop=15 |
MinEXP=75 |
MaxEXP=89 |
browser= Vaporeon is a key to the [[Fiore Temple]]'s mystery. It attacks with a rainbow ray. |
Ranger2=yes |
typeG2= Water |
typeA2= Water |
field2= Soak x3 |
}}

===Evolution===
{{evobox/1|133|Eevee|1|Normal||[[Water Stone]]|134|Vaporeon|1|Water|}}

===Sprites===
{{Sprite|
type=water|
gen=1|
gender=none|
ndex=134|
name=Vaporeon|
}}

==Trivia==
* Vaporeon is one of the few {{type2|Water}} non-legendary Pokémon that can learn {{type2|Ice}} moves without a TM: {{M|Aurora Beam}} at Lv. 36 and {{M|Haze}} at Lv. 57.
* Vaporeon is the heaviest Eevee evolution.
* Vaporeon is tied with Umbreon and Leafeon for tallest Eevee evolution.
* Vaporeon has the highest HP base stat of the Eeveelutions.
* Vaporeon is said to have the ability to melt into water. In the games this is not seen apart from in {{a|Water Absorb}}, however, a similar process is {{m|Acid Armor}}, which is a {{type2|Poison}} move.
* Vaporeon's Red and Blue sprites show a fin running down the full length of its back and fins on the back of its legs. These do not appear in later games.
* Vaporeon is the only {{type2|Water}} that appears in [[List of Pokémon by Pal Park location#Field|field section]] of the [[Pal Park]].
* The [[Generation I]] backsprites show the back of its ears to be black, as opposed to the yellow-ridged ears in later games.
===Origin===

====Name origin====
Vaporeon's name is derived from ''vapor''. Its Japanese name probably refers to rain showers. The ''-eon'' suffix, common to all {{p|Eevee}} [[evolution]]s comes from Eevee's prototype English name. The French and German names are based off of the word ''aqua''.

==In other languages==
*[[List of German Pokémon names|German]]: Aquana - Derived from "aqua" meaning water in Latin. Ends with -a like each of Eevee's evolutions in German.
*[[List of French Pokémon names|French]]: Aquali - ''Aqua'' comes from the Latin, meaning water.
*[[List of Korean Pokémon names|Korean]]: 샤미드 ''Syamideu''

==External links==
*[[wp:Vaporeon|Article on Wikipedia]]

{{Starter Pokémon}}

{{PokémonPrevNext | prev=Eevee | next=Jolteon }}
{{Project Pokédex notice}}
[[Category:Pokémon that are part of a two-stage evolutionary line]]
[[Category:Pokémon that are included in the Japan-only Pokémon Stadium]]
[[de:Aquana]]
[[fr:Aquali]]
[[ja:シャワーズ]]
[[pl:Vaporeon]]
[[pt:Vaporeon (pokémon)]]

Talk:Vaporeon (Pokémon)

2008-09-05T17:34:31Z

Monblazon:

==Water's effectiveness==

Here's the problem: although technically Vaporeon takes no damage from Water-type attacks while it has Water Absorb, the (UP TO 25%) healing it receives still applies it's resistance to Water. Personally, I'd rather list Water's effectiveness as 0, noting the hidden resistance on the Water Absorb page. What do you think? That okay? --[[User:ANinyMouse|ANinyMouse]] 03:35, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

== Battling with Vaporeon ==

Here's a good Dubble Battle idea.

You will need:

Vaporeon with Hydro Pump, Surf, Ice Beam, and Blizzered holding Icical Plate or Splash Plate

Jolteon with Skill Swap, Rain Dance, Thunder, and Shock Wave holding Quick Claw

Once the battle starts:

1. Get Jolteon to use Skill Swap on Vaporeon so that Vaporeon now has Volt Absorb and Jolteon has Water Absorb.

2. Attack until both opponents are fainted. If Vaporeon's HP gets low, use Shock Wave. If Jolteon's HP gets low, use Surf (witch will attack both opponents as well as heal Jolteon)

Also, a good idea is to give Jolteon alot of Carbos before the battle to increase it's speed so that it's even more likely to go first.

==Traits==
Shouldn't it have traits of Lion? It's collar (which is a maine) reminds me of a Lion's Maine sometimes , and it's old sprite kind of looked Lion-ish. And don't complain about what I'm saying/typing right now, if you you don't think Lion traits should be there don't add it. (I can give more reasons about the Lion trait if you want. XD) [[Image:Ani134MS.gif]][[User:Evil Sonic|'''Evil Sonic''']][[Image:Ani134MS.gif]] 06:30, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

==Acid Armor==

In Vaporeon's "special abilities" section, it says:

"As stated previously, they have a unique molecular structure. They have the ability to "melt" into a body of water and disappear completely from view".

Does anyone mind if I add in a link to the attack acid armor, since its a clear reference to that? - ''unsigned comment from [[User:Wikid|Wikid]] ([[User talk:Wikid|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Wikid|contribs]]){{ #if: | {{{2}}} |}}''
: I think that there is a connection there, but not in the way that is implied. It also seems just a little co-incedental, but would not do harm if reworded. I hope nobody minds if I change the wording myself in the trivia section [[User:Monblazon|Monblazon]] 17:34, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Talk:Pokémon of myth/Archive 1

2008-09-04T23:59:34Z

Monblazon:

{{:User:Shiningpikablu252/PA}}
But... we don't even know if they're a trio... '''[[User:TTEchidna|T]][[User talk:TTEchidna|T]][[wp:Echidna|Echidna]]''' 05:20, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

== Wait a tick... ==

Palkia is the Space pokemon 
Dialga is the Time pokemon 
Arceus is the Alpha pokemon 

Wouldn't this technically be the trio; given that, well, aren't Palkia and Dialga technically made of Arceus, or something?

Although, if you took into account that Giratina is related to an "ancient cemetary in another dimension", you could technically consider it:
Arceus ; life ; Alpha
Giratina ; death ; Omega

Beginning and end, so to speak...maybe it could work? Myrmidon 06:58, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
:That'd then make Arceus the master of this trio, too... '''[[User:TTEchidna|T]][[User talk:TTEchidna|T]][[wp:Echidna|Echidna]]''' 09:37, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

::Arceus really did a lot for the world of Pokémon, at least in the mythology. Althoughit is unknown how Arceus relates to Giratina, unlike Dialga and Palkia, where it is clearly known that Arceus created the two. Therefore, it is not really certain if Arceus is in fact the master of this trio. [[User:Pokéball|Pok]][[User_talk:Pokéball|é]][[Special:Contributions/Pokéball|ball]] 18:27, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
:::Either way, I still don't think we should name the "dragon trio" off until DP v3 comes out. We knew beforehand that Rayquaza was the third member of the weather trio, but that's mostly because it just fit. Far as I'm concerned, Dialga and Palkia are just a duo, like Ho-Oh and Lugia. '''[[User:TTEchidna|T]][[User talk:TTEchidna|T]][[wp:Echidna|Echidna]]''' 19:04, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
::::Isn't it obvious that Arceus created Giratina? --[[User:Shiny Noctowl|Shiny Noctowl]][[User talk:Shiny Noctowl|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Shiny Noctowl|Contribs]][[Image:Ani164MS.gif]] 01:45, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
::::Here's proof:
{| border="1" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0"
| align="center" colspan="2" |     || align="center"| [[Image:483.png]] || align="center"| [[Image:484.png]] || align="center"| [[Image:487.png]]
|-
| align="center" rowspan="10"| Attacks (Attacks in '''bold''' do direct damage) || Start || colspan="3" align="center"| '''{{m|DragonBreath}}''' {{m|Scary Face}}
|-
| 10 || '''{{m|Metal Claw}}''' || '''{{m|Water Pulse}}''' || '''{{m|Ominous Wind}}'''
|-
| 20 || colspan="3" align="center"| '''{{m|AncientPower}}'''
|-
| 30 || colspan="3" align="center"| '''{{m|Dragon Claw}}'''
|-
| 40 || '''{{m|Roar of Time}}''' || '''{{m|Spacial Rend}}''' || '''{{m|Shadow Force}}'''
|-
| 50 || colspan="3" align="center"| {{m|Heal Block}}
|-
| 60 || colspan="3" align="center"| '''{{m|Earth Power}}'''
|-
| 70 || colspan="3" align="center"| '''{{m|Slash}}'''
|-
| 80 || '''{{m|Flash Cannon}}''' || '''{{m|Aqua Tail}}''' || '''{{m|Shadow Claw}}'''
|-
| 90 || colspan="3" align="center"| '''{{m|Aura Sphere}}'''
|}
[[Image:Ani164MS.gif]][[User:Shiny Noctowl|Shiny]][[User talk:Shiny Noctowl|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Shiny Noctowl|Contribs]][[Image:Ani408MS.gif]][[Image:Ani410MS.gif]] 12:13, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

:I'm totally against this. This is purely fan speculation...[[Image:Ani475MS.gif]] '''[[User:Optimus35|Agent]] [[User:Optimus35/Mission|4]][[User:Optimus35/Emerald|4]][[Gallade (Pokémon)|8]][[User talk:Optimus35|δ]] | [[User:Optimus35/Diamond&Pearl|DP]]''' | [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?limit=50&title=Special%3AContributions&contribs=user&target=Optimus35&namespace=0&year=&month=-1 ☆][[Image:Ani282MS.gif]] 11:51, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
::Seconded. Adding a cleanup tag. Fan speculation and move similarity mean sh*t, tbh.[[User:Dark0805|'''Dark0805''']] ([[User talk:Dark0805|''talk'']]|[[Special:Contributions/Dark0805|''contribs'']]) 17:06, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
Compare to this:
{| border="1" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0"
| align="center" colspan="2" |     || align="center"| [[Image:382.png]] || align="center"| [[Image:383.png]] || align="center"| [[Image:384.png]]
|-
| align="center" rowspan="12"| Attacks (Attacks in '''bold''' do direct damage) || Start || '''{{m|Water Pulse}}''' || '''{{m|Mud Shot}}''' || '''{{m|Twister}}'''
|-
| 5 || colspan="3" align="center"| {{m|Scary Face}}
|-
| 15 || colspan="3" align="center"| '''{{m|AncientPower}}'''
|-
| 20 || '''{{m|Body Slam}}''' || '''{{m|Slash}}''' || '''{{m|Dragon Claw}}'''
|-
| 30 || {{m|Calm Mind}} || {{m|Bulk Up}} || {{m|Dragon Dance}}
|-
| 35 || '''{{m|Ice Beam}}''' || '''{{m|Earthquake}}''' || '''{{m|Crunch}}'''
|-
| 45 || '''{{m|Hydro Pump}}''' || '''{{m|Fire Blast}}''' || '''{{m|Fly}}'''
|-
| 50 || colspan="3" align="center"| {{m|Rest}}
|-
| 60 || '''{{m|Sheer Cold}}''' || '''{{m|Fissure}}''' || '''{{m|Extremespeed}}'''
|-
| 65 || '''{{m|Double-Edge}}''' || '''{{m|Solarbeam}}''' || '''{{m|Hyper Beam}}'''
|-
| 75 || '''{{m|Aqua Tail}}''' || '''{{m|Earth Power}}''' || '''{{m|Dragon Pulse}}'''
|-
| 80 || '''{{m|Water Spout}}''' || '''{{m|Eruption}}''' || '''{{m|Outrage}}'''
|}

Or this:
{| border="1" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0"
| align="center" colspan="2" |     || align="center"| [[Image:377.png]] || align="center"| [[Image:378.png]] || align="center"| [[Image:379.png]]
|-
| align="center" rowspan="12"| Attacks (Attacks in '''bold''' do direct damage) || Start || colspan="3" align="center"| '''{{M|Explosion}}'''
|-
| 9 || '''{{m|Rock Throw}}''' || '''{{m|Icy Wind}}''' || '''{{m|Metal Claw}}'''
|-
| 17 || colspan="3" align="center"| {{m|Curse}}
|-
| 25 || colspan="3" align="center"| '''{{m|Superpower}}'''
|-
| 33 || colspan="3" align="center"| '''{{m|AncientPower}}'''
|-
| 41 || {{m|Iron Defense}}   ||   {{m|Amnesia}} || {{m|Iron Defense}} {{m|Amnesia}}
|-
| 49 || colspan="3" align="center"| '''{{m|Charge Beam}}'''
|-
| 57 || colspan="3" align="center"| {{m|Lock On}}
|-
| 65 || colspan="3" align="center"| '''{{m|Zap Cannon}}'''
|-
| 73 || '''{{m|Stone Edge}}'''   ||   '''{{m|Ice Beam}}''' || '''{{m|Iron Head}}''' '''{{m|Flash Cannon}}'''
|-
| 81 || colspan="3" align="center"| '''{{m|Hammer Arm}}'''
|-
| 89 || colspan="3" align="center"| '''{{m|Hyper Beam}}'''
|}

[[Image:Ani164MS.gif]][[User:Shiny Noctowl|Shiny]][[User talk:Shiny Noctowl|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Shiny Noctowl|Contribs]][[Image:Ani408MS.gif]][[Image:Ani410MS.gif]] 12:11, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Well it is possible. There is space and time. What else is there. Giratina is said to live in a world on the reverse side of ours. This is possibly the afterlife. This place may neither be space nor time. If these three pokémon are a trio, then it would mean that this trio would control Space, Time, and the Afterlife, which are the only places where anyone could possibly be. [[User:Pokemaniac102|Pokemaniac102]]

AND THEY ALL SHARE THE SAME STATS ONLY MIXED UP.

So, since it's not official. the Dragon Trio, although is based on a certain amount of canon, is fanon as Pokémon and Nintendo have nto released it officially...'''<sc>[[User:Optimus35|{{tt|Optimatum♏|Optimus35}}]]</sc>[[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|♊]]Hi''' 07:03, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

First, Dialga, Palkia, and Giratina all appear in the 11th movie. Second, WHY CAN'T WE ALL WAIT!!![[Image:Ani471MS.gif]][[User:Pokemaniac102|'''Poke''''''maniac''''''102''']] 17:55, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

:Unless someone can give me ''official'' proof that these three are the trio, and that {{p|Giratina}} is the master and the mascot for the third DP game, I'm putting a delete notice on this page. [[Canon]], people! -[[Image:Spr 3e 186.gif|30px]][[User:Politoed666|ニョロトノ]][[User talk:Politoed666|''666'']][[Image:Spr 3e 186.gif|30px]]

::"May even be true" doesn't cut it here. For instance, it may be true that [[Ash Ketchum]] is a cross-dressing girl! However, I'll hold off on the deletion notice until a sysop okays it. -[[Image:Spr 3e 186.gif|30px]][[User:Politoed666|ニョロトノ]][[User talk:Politoed666|''666'']][[Image:Spr 3e 186.gif|30px]]
:How bout shipping the names are fanon and the whole thing is fanon.[[Image:Ani471MS.gif]][[User:Pokemaniac102|'''Poke''''''maniac''''''102''']][[Image:AniEggMS.gif]] 23:57, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

::::[[Shipping]] '''usually''' has some logical basis, and it's noted that it may not be true. It's '''accepted''' that ships are often false (sorry, shippers!), but stuff like this has no place here unless it's official. -[[Image:Spr 3e 186.gif|30px]][[User:Politoed666|ニョロトノ]][[User talk:Politoed666|''666'']][[Image:Spr 3e 186.gif|30px]]
:::::These three Pokémon being a trio '''has some logical basis,''' and it is noted that it may or may not be true. But there are people who believe that these three pokémon are a trio. Some ships have come true(Rocketshipping in manga) and this '''may''' come true too. There are reason that I believe that these three pokémon are a trio:
*They all have the same stats just mixed up.
*They have similar moves, as seen above.
*They look similar in appearance.
*They all were created at the same time, as said in the article about the History of the Pokémon world.
*I believe that Palkia controls space, Dialga controls time, and Giratina controls the only other thing, the afterlife.
But still, it hasn't been revealed yet. But there is a possibility that, '''if''' a third version comes out, It may be Giratina (or Arceus).[[Image:Ani471MS.gif]][[User:Pokemaniac102|'''Poke''''''maniac''''''102''']][[Image:AniEggMS.gif]] 21:53, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
::The possibility of it being Arceus is zero. If the third game confirms that Giratina is the third part of the chain, then fine, make the article. But until that game comes out, this is nothing but fanwank, and thus does not belong here. This page should be scrapped until this information can be OFFICIALLY confirmed. --[[User:Dual|Dual]] 09:54, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
:::Also, following Crystal's pattern, it could be one of the Lake Trio. '''<sc>[[User:Optimus35|{{tt|Optimatum♏|Optimus35}}]]</sc>[[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|♊]]Hi''' 10:14, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
::::Completely possible. But lets leave this article to rot until V3 comes out.{{ani|486}}[[User:Pokemaniac102|<big>'''''Poke'''''</big>]][[User talk:Pokemaniac102|'''''Maniac''''']][[Special:Contributions/Pokemaniac102|<big>'''''102'''''</big>]]{{ani|492}}01:08, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
:::::IF there's a V3. Gen IV has been avoiding most of the rules, such as nearly getting Dark, Psychic and Fighting starters and not all the new Pokémon are in the new dex. '''<sc>[[User:Optimus35|{{tt|Optimatum♏|Optimus35}}]]</sc>[[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|♊]]Hi''' 13:48, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

wait.. if we go by emeralds patten. the '''''MAY''''' be a battle between Palkia and diagla as depicted in the movies and Giratina will quell the battle. {{u|Dakclaw}}

Giratina cannot represent the afterlife, as the Lake trio have been stated to represent spirit. MATTER, on the other hand, is seperate from space and time, yet does not seem to be represented by Giratina. [[User:Noname|Noname]]
:I'm not talking about MATTER, I'm talking about life. What creates life, besides spirit. Space, for things to move. Time, for things to accelerate. And a life after life...{{ani|486}}[[User:Pokemaniac102|<big>'''''Poke'''''</big>]][[User talk:Pokemaniac102|'''''Maniac''''']][[Special:Contributions/Pokemaniac102|<big>'''''102'''''</big>]]{{ani|492}} 01:51, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

::I doubt that Giratina represents life after death, but I do beleive he represents Death itself. He lives in a cemetary and is part ghost. [[User:Noname|Noname]] The afterlife would be a bit of a streach and I doubt they would do that in a pokemon game.

::::::whait you're forgetting something important. If any of you has played Ruby/Sapphire, you'll note that Rayquaza is not considered part of the wheather trio, althought it has similar attacks and base stats, and it is catchable only after the elite 4. it is later given a special role in Emerald AND THEN IT IS CONSIDERED part of it. Maybe it is what will happen with Giratina, and in the third Sinnoh game, a legend will say that Arceus created the three, as it happened in Emerald with Rayquaza who in Ruby/Sapphire is not mentioned anywhere. [[User:Hfc2x|Hfc2x]] 20:57, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Well, until then, this is pure speculation, which does not belong here. We need a template or something that states that it's only speculation, and is not canon as of yet. [[User:Vekter|Vekter]] 17:03, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Maybe Giratina is part of the trio, opposing both Palkia and Dialga. I believe it's something like this: Palkia is space, Dialga is time, and Giratina would be the ''absence'' of space/time. If it's established that Giratina is "a Pokémon from another dimension", it's very easy to understand that the concept of time is different to Giratina. Also, his signature move being "Dark Void" tells us about the concept of space (also different from ours). Anyway, let's wait for the third game. I'm quite sure they'll explore Giratina as opposed to Dialga/Palkia, or maybe some collateral effect of Arceus' creation. --[[User:Rafaelpuff|Rafaelpuff]] 20:04, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

:I agree 100% with you, but Giratina's signature move is {{m|Shadow Force}}. {{m|Dark Void}} is {{p|Darkrai}}'s signature. '''[[User:Hfc2x|hfc]][[User talk:Hfc2x|2X]]''' 03:27, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

::Since this is speculation anyway, consider this: Giratina's Shadow Force makes it "suddenly vanish", making it completely untouchable. It's possible it does this but exploiting it's absence of space and time, then the next turn it rematerializes intersecting its target, causing the damage as the solid matter (or pseudo-solid in Giratina's case) violently attempts to resolve a physical impossibility.--[[User:Zyphers|Zyphers]] 12:15, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes, sorry, my bad. I've written {{m|Dark Void}} with the ingame animation of {{m|Shadow Force}} in mind. Thanks for the correction. Now, what about the new rumours? About Giratina being the mascot of the third game? If these rumours are confirmed, I guess it's no doubt that there is a Dragon Trio. Also, Serebii.net announced that there'll be a new dual-type form to Arceus - maybe an ancient form of Arceus before he "created the Dragons from itself"? Well, anyway, this is only speculation. But I like Zyphers' theory (about Giratina's Shadow Force) very much. --[[User:Rafaelpuff|Rafaelpuff]] 17:27, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

==Dragon Trio has been officially confirmed==
At last no more speculation. People who hasn't checked Serebii.net do it. A hi-res scan of the Coro coro magazine has leaked and is available [http://serebii.net/platinum/scan.jpg here]. As you can see in the pic, cyrus is standing in front of Dialga, Palkia and the shadow of Giratina. '''[[User:Hfc2x|hfc]][[User talk:Hfc2x|2X]]''' 21:33, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
:That imaged could be faked or photoshopped......[[User:Darth Cookie Monster|C is for Cookie]] 21:37, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
::Please know that THE WHOLE THING CAN BE FAKE!•'''[[User:Pokemaniac102|Poke]][[User talk:Pokemaniac102|maniac]]102''' 21:43, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

giratina is on teh box art for pokemon platinum which has been officially announced... [[User:Arutoa|Arutoa]] 20:56, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
:Well then NOW it is conformed.•'''[[User:Pokemaniac102|Poke]][[User talk:Pokemaniac102|maniac]]102''' 20:58, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
::well then lugia ho-oh and suicune are a trio by that logic - touché! '''{{Colored link|:User:Origamiguy|808080|Origami}}{{Colored link|:User:Origamiguy|FF8000|Guy}}-{{Colored link|:User_talk:Origamiguy|808080|T}}-{{Colored link|Special:Contributions/Origamiguy|FF8000|C}}-{{Colored link|:User_talk:Origamiguy/Mudkipz|0080FF|M}}''' 11:36, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
:::Not really. The boxart proves nothing by itself, or Charizard, Blastoise, and Venusaur would be a trio. But with the other evidence shared among the members of this trio (similar typing, all half {{t|Dragon}}; similar moves at the same levels; similar origin for their names ''Dia''mond/Dialga, ''P''e''a''r''l''/Palkia, Pla''tina''/Giratina)... well it pretty much says it all. But ''until we get evidence that Arceus also made Giratina'', which is undoubtedly the case, I would say, the dragon trio technically is unconfirmed. Come September, though, the whole thing will become clear.
:::I hate to be a hardass here, but hey, we're not taking any crap when it comes to anime Pokémon's gender (even for Ash's Charizard, and that's ''honestly ridiculous'' in my mind), so no crap is taken here. This trio is almost official. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 05:04, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
::::Where is it written that trios ''have'' to have a master? That idea came more from the anime and the [[The Power of One|second movie]] than anything else. Furthermore, should we really be classifying trios of [[version mascot]]s the same way we do the honest-to-[[Arceus (Pokémon)|God]] trios (ie, the birds, the beasts, the golems, the bizzare psychic things)? I've always had a problem with that. --[[User:Martonimos|Martonimos]][[User talk:Martonimos|((Argh]]|[[Special:Contributions/Martonimos|Blargh))]] 09:51, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

== No way ==

It's not necessarily part of the trio, as a matter a fact, I think it's the leader-guy! Posted by the '''[[User:Optimus35|<sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''10:03 16 May 2008'''''
:Excuse me for asking, but what do you mean by "leader-guy"? As in leader of the "duo", or the duo and Arceus? [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 23:43, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
::I believe he thinks that Giratina is sort of the '''trio master''' of the '''duo'''. But I believe that they all are a trio only with Giratina being the strongest.•'''[[User:Pokemaniac102|Poke]][[User talk:Pokemaniac102|maniac]]102''' 14:24, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
Everybody wait for platinum instead of saying "NUH UH MY THEORY IZ BETR THAN YERZ". [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 23:49, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
:I never said anything. I just believe what I said.'''[[User:Pokemaniac102|P]][[User talk:Pokemaniac102|M]][[Dragon trio|102]]''' 00:24, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
::This is the same as the weather trio. They are a trio, but there's one that's seemingly more powerful than the other two. '''[[User:Hfc2x|hfc]][[User talk:Hfc2x|2X]]''' 00:58, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
:::Thats a good point but it would still be BETTER to JUST WAIT. [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 22:13, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

== images ==

I think the image should go back to the turnback cave 1 the new 1 does not clearly depict Giratina its a silohuette and the others are in Sprite Form.
[[User:Sailor Earth|Sailor Earth]] 20:40, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
:The new image is important, though, as it demonstrates that there is probably some sort of link between the three. I think we should have both images; that way, there'd be one for each of them on their own in DP, and one of them all together in Platinum. --[[User:Martonimos|Martonimos]][[User talk:Martonimos|((Talk))]] 21:47, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
I agree 100% [[User:Sailor Earth|Sailor Earth]] 21:49, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

== Hey... ==

Look Its a trio with it being Dialga:Time Palkia:Space Giratina: '''VOID''' with arceus being the trio master of spirit and the dragon trio. [[User:Atomix26|Atomix26]] 17:16, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

== Proof ==

Pokémon Platinum serves as proof that this is a trio similar to the weather trio. --[[User talk:Shiny Noctowl|Shiny Noctowl]] 20:59, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

:Wouldn't that be like saying Lugia, Ho-Oh and Suicune are a trio? ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 17:58, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
::Nopes. Lugia and Ho-oh are kind of a duo, and Suicune is just a version mascot. Suicune has nothing to do with Lugia and that's why they aren't a trio. In Gen III however, Groudon and Kyogre were a duo, and Rayquaza was a Pokémon that had apparently no relation to the other two (not even in its pokédex description). However in Emerald, it was revealed to be part of the trio, as it's the only one capable of stoping the effects of Kyogre and Groudon. This is exactly the same that's gonna happen with Giratina. '''[[User:Hfc2x|hfc]][[User talk:Hfc2x|2X]]''' 20:06, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

== I've been thinking about something... ==

I was watching TV one day and they said something about Time, Space and DIMENSION.
That made me think about how each of the dragon trio has a certain control over what they represent
and that Giratina has control over dimension. So wouldn't that make Giratina represent Dimension? [[User:Darkmaster0]] 20:09, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
:True. '''[[User:LugiaFan|''Lugia'']][[User talk:LugiaFan|''Rules!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"]]''' 17:05, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
::I was thinking the same. In fact I'd like to suggest renaming the trio to a more specific term like '''Reality trio''', as in time, space and dimension being the three elements of reality, though I prefer to leave it up for debate. --[[User:Kaoz|Kaoz]] 01:20, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
:Maybe it was on doctor who - TARDIS stands for {{p2|Dialga|'''Time'''}} And Relative {{p2|Giratina|'''Dimension'''}} In {{p2|Palkia|'''Space'''}}. '''{{Colored link|:User:Origamiguy|ff8000|Lord}} of {{Colored link|:User_talk:Origamiguy|ff8000|Ori}}{{Colored link|Special:Contributions/Origamiguy|ff8000|gami}}''' 12:50, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
::TARDIS Dragons, then? :) --[[User:Kaoz|Kaoz]] 13:33, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
:::LOL'''[[User:Shazaaaam|SHA]][[User_talk:Shazaaaam|ZAA]][[Special:Contributions/Shazaaaam|AAM!]]''' 13:35, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
I think that Giratina represents the NEGATIVE of Dialga and Palkia's respective dimensions, like the negative of an photograph. It's as if the negative were intertwined behind the strings of dimension, thus it having a connection, like an astral plane. [[User:TorchicBlaziken|TorchicBlaziken]] 14:20, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Somebody is misinformed here. Space is the combination OF the first three DIMENSION'''S'''. The fourth Dimension is the forward and backward directions of Time. Also, if Giratina resides in the '''Reverse'''World, then surely there should be a fourth - to oppose both Dialga and Palkia! Do I make sense?[[User:Monblazon|Monblazon]] 20:59, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
:Hmm, sorry to bump an old topic, but I believe SPACE is the first three dimensions and TIME is the fourth. A 3D thing can't see anything 4D or higher (that's why we can't 'see' time). Giratina is in the Reverse World, supposedly a separate world from ours. However, could it be that the Reverse World is our world, just that it has more dimensions? And building on that, does that mean that the Reverse World allows travel in time? '''[[User:Optimatum|<sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Optimatum|Talk]]|[[User:Optimatum/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''06:46 3 Sep 2008'''''
::Now that you mention it, string theory has those six extra curled-up dimensions, which could be why the Reverse/Torn world is shaped so oddly...
::Although I somehow doubt that the people responsible for coming up with these things pay much attention to theoretical physics. --[[User:Martonimos|Martonimos]][[User talk:Martonimos|((Argh]]|[[Special:Contributions/Martonimos|Blargh))]] 20:45, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
:::Especially since those curled up dimensions are very 'small'. And that it is called the 'Reverse' world suggests a form of opposition, as is found with matter and anti-matter, therefore necessitating the need for a fourth related Legendary to maintain the balance of the worlds. i.e. If Giratina is the 'Reverse' equivalent of either Dialga or Palkia, then there is an imbalance - and a Gap to be filled by another Reverse World Pokémon.[[User:Monblazon|Monblazon]] 23:58, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
== New Table ==
I think this resolves everything:

{| border="1" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0"
|Species
| align="center"| [[Image:Spr_4d_483.png]] {{p|Dialga}} || align="center"| [[Image:Spr_4d_484.png]] {{p|Palkia}} || align="center"| [[Image:Spr_4d_487.png]] {{p|Giratina}}
|-
| Type 1
| style="background: #{{Steel color}};" | '''Steel'''-type
| style="background: #{{Water color}};" | '''Water'''-type
| style="background: #{{Ghost color}};" | '''Ghost'''-type
|-
| Type 2
| style="background: #{{Dragon color}};" | '''Dragon'''-type
| style="background: #{{Dragon color}};" | '''Dragon'''-type
| style="background: #{{Dragon color}};" | '''Dragon'''-type
|-
| Level 10
| style="background: #{{Steel color}};" | ''{{m|Metal Claw}}'' '''Steel'''-Type
| style="background: #{{Water color}};" | ''{{m|Water Pulse}}'' '''Water'''-type
| style="background: #{{Ghost color}};" | ''{{m|Ominous Wind}}'' '''Ghost'''-type
|-
| Level 40
| style="background: #{{Dragon color}};" | ''{{m|Roar of Time}}'' '''Dragon'''-type
| style="background: #{{Dragon color}};" | ''{{m|Spacial Rend}}'' '''Dragon'''-type
| style="background: #{{Ghost color}};" | ''{{m|Shadow Force}}'' '''Ghost'''-type
|-
| Level 80
| style="background: #{{Steel color}};" | ''{{m|Flash Cannon}}'' '''Steel'''-type
| style="background: #{{Water color}};" | ''{{m|Aqua Tail}}'' '''Water'''-type
| style="background: #{{Ghost color}};" | ''{{m|Shadow Claw}}'' '''Ghost'''-type
|}

'''{{Colored link|:User:Origamiguy|ff8000|Lord}} of {{Colored link|:User_talk:Origamiguy|ff8000|Ori}}{{Colored link|Special:Contributions/Origamiguy|ff8000|gami}}''' 13:23, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

== Form/Forme ==

Change it. It's in the article. '''[[User:Optimatum|<sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Optimatum|Talk]]|[[User:Optimatum/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''06:52 3 Sep 2008'''''

:There's no real need to change something if pretty much 100% it's not going to stick, such as this whole "forme" bullsh*t. Trust me, it'll be "Origin Form" when it's revealed stateside, and that'll be the end of this whole "forme" debacle. --[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 15:22, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Talk:Pokémon of myth/Archive 1

2008-09-04T23:58:39Z

Monblazon:

{{:User:Shiningpikablu252/PA}}
But... we don't even know if they're a trio... '''[[User:TTEchidna|T]][[User talk:TTEchidna|T]][[wp:Echidna|Echidna]]''' 05:20, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

== Wait a tick... ==

Palkia is the Space pokemon 
Dialga is the Time pokemon 
Arceus is the Alpha pokemon 

Wouldn't this technically be the trio; given that, well, aren't Palkia and Dialga technically made of Arceus, or something?

Although, if you took into account that Giratina is related to an "ancient cemetary in another dimension", you could technically consider it:
Arceus ; life ; Alpha
Giratina ; death ; Omega

Beginning and end, so to speak...maybe it could work? Myrmidon 06:58, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
:That'd then make Arceus the master of this trio, too... '''[[User:TTEchidna|T]][[User talk:TTEchidna|T]][[wp:Echidna|Echidna]]''' 09:37, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

::Arceus really did a lot for the world of Pokémon, at least in the mythology. Althoughit is unknown how Arceus relates to Giratina, unlike Dialga and Palkia, where it is clearly known that Arceus created the two. Therefore, it is not really certain if Arceus is in fact the master of this trio. [[User:Pokéball|Pok]][[User_talk:Pokéball|é]][[Special:Contributions/Pokéball|ball]] 18:27, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
:::Either way, I still don't think we should name the "dragon trio" off until DP v3 comes out. We knew beforehand that Rayquaza was the third member of the weather trio, but that's mostly because it just fit. Far as I'm concerned, Dialga and Palkia are just a duo, like Ho-Oh and Lugia. '''[[User:TTEchidna|T]][[User talk:TTEchidna|T]][[wp:Echidna|Echidna]]''' 19:04, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
::::Isn't it obvious that Arceus created Giratina? --[[User:Shiny Noctowl|Shiny Noctowl]][[User talk:Shiny Noctowl|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Shiny Noctowl|Contribs]][[Image:Ani164MS.gif]] 01:45, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
::::Here's proof:
{| border="1" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0"
| align="center" colspan="2" |     || align="center"| [[Image:483.png]] || align="center"| [[Image:484.png]] || align="center"| [[Image:487.png]]
|-
| align="center" rowspan="10"| Attacks (Attacks in '''bold''' do direct damage) || Start || colspan="3" align="center"| '''{{m|DragonBreath}}''' {{m|Scary Face}}
|-
| 10 || '''{{m|Metal Claw}}''' || '''{{m|Water Pulse}}''' || '''{{m|Ominous Wind}}'''
|-
| 20 || colspan="3" align="center"| '''{{m|AncientPower}}'''
|-
| 30 || colspan="3" align="center"| '''{{m|Dragon Claw}}'''
|-
| 40 || '''{{m|Roar of Time}}''' || '''{{m|Spacial Rend}}''' || '''{{m|Shadow Force}}'''
|-
| 50 || colspan="3" align="center"| {{m|Heal Block}}
|-
| 60 || colspan="3" align="center"| '''{{m|Earth Power}}'''
|-
| 70 || colspan="3" align="center"| '''{{m|Slash}}'''
|-
| 80 || '''{{m|Flash Cannon}}''' || '''{{m|Aqua Tail}}''' || '''{{m|Shadow Claw}}'''
|-
| 90 || colspan="3" align="center"| '''{{m|Aura Sphere}}'''
|}
[[Image:Ani164MS.gif]][[User:Shiny Noctowl|Shiny]][[User talk:Shiny Noctowl|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Shiny Noctowl|Contribs]][[Image:Ani408MS.gif]][[Image:Ani410MS.gif]] 12:13, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

:I'm totally against this. This is purely fan speculation...[[Image:Ani475MS.gif]] '''[[User:Optimus35|Agent]] [[User:Optimus35/Mission|4]][[User:Optimus35/Emerald|4]][[Gallade (Pokémon)|8]][[User talk:Optimus35|δ]] | [[User:Optimus35/Diamond&Pearl|DP]]''' | [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?limit=50&title=Special%3AContributions&contribs=user&target=Optimus35&namespace=0&year=&month=-1 ☆][[Image:Ani282MS.gif]] 11:51, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
::Seconded. Adding a cleanup tag. Fan speculation and move similarity mean sh*t, tbh.[[User:Dark0805|'''Dark0805''']] ([[User talk:Dark0805|''talk'']]|[[Special:Contributions/Dark0805|''contribs'']]) 17:06, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
Compare to this:
{| border="1" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0"
| align="center" colspan="2" |     || align="center"| [[Image:382.png]] || align="center"| [[Image:383.png]] || align="center"| [[Image:384.png]]
|-
| align="center" rowspan="12"| Attacks (Attacks in '''bold''' do direct damage) || Start || '''{{m|Water Pulse}}''' || '''{{m|Mud Shot}}''' || '''{{m|Twister}}'''
|-
| 5 || colspan="3" align="center"| {{m|Scary Face}}
|-
| 15 || colspan="3" align="center"| '''{{m|AncientPower}}'''
|-
| 20 || '''{{m|Body Slam}}''' || '''{{m|Slash}}''' || '''{{m|Dragon Claw}}'''
|-
| 30 || {{m|Calm Mind}} || {{m|Bulk Up}} || {{m|Dragon Dance}}
|-
| 35 || '''{{m|Ice Beam}}''' || '''{{m|Earthquake}}''' || '''{{m|Crunch}}'''
|-
| 45 || '''{{m|Hydro Pump}}''' || '''{{m|Fire Blast}}''' || '''{{m|Fly}}'''
|-
| 50 || colspan="3" align="center"| {{m|Rest}}
|-
| 60 || '''{{m|Sheer Cold}}''' || '''{{m|Fissure}}''' || '''{{m|Extremespeed}}'''
|-
| 65 || '''{{m|Double-Edge}}''' || '''{{m|Solarbeam}}''' || '''{{m|Hyper Beam}}'''
|-
| 75 || '''{{m|Aqua Tail}}''' || '''{{m|Earth Power}}''' || '''{{m|Dragon Pulse}}'''
|-
| 80 || '''{{m|Water Spout}}''' || '''{{m|Eruption}}''' || '''{{m|Outrage}}'''
|}

Or this:
{| border="1" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0"
| align="center" colspan="2" |     || align="center"| [[Image:377.png]] || align="center"| [[Image:378.png]] || align="center"| [[Image:379.png]]
|-
| align="center" rowspan="12"| Attacks (Attacks in '''bold''' do direct damage) || Start || colspan="3" align="center"| '''{{M|Explosion}}'''
|-
| 9 || '''{{m|Rock Throw}}''' || '''{{m|Icy Wind}}''' || '''{{m|Metal Claw}}'''
|-
| 17 || colspan="3" align="center"| {{m|Curse}}
|-
| 25 || colspan="3" align="center"| '''{{m|Superpower}}'''
|-
| 33 || colspan="3" align="center"| '''{{m|AncientPower}}'''
|-
| 41 || {{m|Iron Defense}}   ||   {{m|Amnesia}} || {{m|Iron Defense}} {{m|Amnesia}}
|-
| 49 || colspan="3" align="center"| '''{{m|Charge Beam}}'''
|-
| 57 || colspan="3" align="center"| {{m|Lock On}}
|-
| 65 || colspan="3" align="center"| '''{{m|Zap Cannon}}'''
|-
| 73 || '''{{m|Stone Edge}}'''   ||   '''{{m|Ice Beam}}''' || '''{{m|Iron Head}}''' '''{{m|Flash Cannon}}'''
|-
| 81 || colspan="3" align="center"| '''{{m|Hammer Arm}}'''
|-
| 89 || colspan="3" align="center"| '''{{m|Hyper Beam}}'''
|}

[[Image:Ani164MS.gif]][[User:Shiny Noctowl|Shiny]][[User talk:Shiny Noctowl|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Shiny Noctowl|Contribs]][[Image:Ani408MS.gif]][[Image:Ani410MS.gif]] 12:11, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Well it is possible. There is space and time. What else is there. Giratina is said to live in a world on the reverse side of ours. This is possibly the afterlife. This place may neither be space nor time. If these three pokémon are a trio, then it would mean that this trio would control Space, Time, and the Afterlife, which are the only places where anyone could possibly be. [[User:Pokemaniac102|Pokemaniac102]]

AND THEY ALL SHARE THE SAME STATS ONLY MIXED UP.

So, since it's not official. the Dragon Trio, although is based on a certain amount of canon, is fanon as Pokémon and Nintendo have nto released it officially...'''<sc>[[User:Optimus35|{{tt|Optimatum♏|Optimus35}}]]</sc>[[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|♊]]Hi''' 07:03, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

First, Dialga, Palkia, and Giratina all appear in the 11th movie. Second, WHY CAN'T WE ALL WAIT!!![[Image:Ani471MS.gif]][[User:Pokemaniac102|'''Poke''''''maniac''''''102''']] 17:55, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

:Unless someone can give me ''official'' proof that these three are the trio, and that {{p|Giratina}} is the master and the mascot for the third DP game, I'm putting a delete notice on this page. [[Canon]], people! -[[Image:Spr 3e 186.gif|30px]][[User:Politoed666|ニョロトノ]][[User talk:Politoed666|''666'']][[Image:Spr 3e 186.gif|30px]]

::"May even be true" doesn't cut it here. For instance, it may be true that [[Ash Ketchum]] is a cross-dressing girl! However, I'll hold off on the deletion notice until a sysop okays it. -[[Image:Spr 3e 186.gif|30px]][[User:Politoed666|ニョロトノ]][[User talk:Politoed666|''666'']][[Image:Spr 3e 186.gif|30px]]
:How bout shipping the names are fanon and the whole thing is fanon.[[Image:Ani471MS.gif]][[User:Pokemaniac102|'''Poke''''''maniac''''''102''']][[Image:AniEggMS.gif]] 23:57, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

::::[[Shipping]] '''usually''' has some logical basis, and it's noted that it may not be true. It's '''accepted''' that ships are often false (sorry, shippers!), but stuff like this has no place here unless it's official. -[[Image:Spr 3e 186.gif|30px]][[User:Politoed666|ニョロトノ]][[User talk:Politoed666|''666'']][[Image:Spr 3e 186.gif|30px]]
:::::These three Pokémon being a trio '''has some logical basis,''' and it is noted that it may or may not be true. But there are people who believe that these three pokémon are a trio. Some ships have come true(Rocketshipping in manga) and this '''may''' come true too. There are reason that I believe that these three pokémon are a trio:
*They all have the same stats just mixed up.
*They have similar moves, as seen above.
*They look similar in appearance.
*They all were created at the same time, as said in the article about the History of the Pokémon world.
*I believe that Palkia controls space, Dialga controls time, and Giratina controls the only other thing, the afterlife.
But still, it hasn't been revealed yet. But there is a possibility that, '''if''' a third version comes out, It may be Giratina (or Arceus).[[Image:Ani471MS.gif]][[User:Pokemaniac102|'''Poke''''''maniac''''''102''']][[Image:AniEggMS.gif]] 21:53, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
::The possibility of it being Arceus is zero. If the third game confirms that Giratina is the third part of the chain, then fine, make the article. But until that game comes out, this is nothing but fanwank, and thus does not belong here. This page should be scrapped until this information can be OFFICIALLY confirmed. --[[User:Dual|Dual]] 09:54, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
:::Also, following Crystal's pattern, it could be one of the Lake Trio. '''<sc>[[User:Optimus35|{{tt|Optimatum♏|Optimus35}}]]</sc>[[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|♊]]Hi''' 10:14, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
::::Completely possible. But lets leave this article to rot until V3 comes out.{{ani|486}}[[User:Pokemaniac102|<big>'''''Poke'''''</big>]][[User talk:Pokemaniac102|'''''Maniac''''']][[Special:Contributions/Pokemaniac102|<big>'''''102'''''</big>]]{{ani|492}}01:08, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
:::::IF there's a V3. Gen IV has been avoiding most of the rules, such as nearly getting Dark, Psychic and Fighting starters and not all the new Pokémon are in the new dex. '''<sc>[[User:Optimus35|{{tt|Optimatum♏|Optimus35}}]]</sc>[[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|♊]]Hi''' 13:48, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

wait.. if we go by emeralds patten. the '''''MAY''''' be a battle between Palkia and diagla as depicted in the movies and Giratina will quell the battle. {{u|Dakclaw}}

Giratina cannot represent the afterlife, as the Lake trio have been stated to represent spirit. MATTER, on the other hand, is seperate from space and time, yet does not seem to be represented by Giratina. [[User:Noname|Noname]]
:I'm not talking about MATTER, I'm talking about life. What creates life, besides spirit. Space, for things to move. Time, for things to accelerate. And a life after life...{{ani|486}}[[User:Pokemaniac102|<big>'''''Poke'''''</big>]][[User talk:Pokemaniac102|'''''Maniac''''']][[Special:Contributions/Pokemaniac102|<big>'''''102'''''</big>]]{{ani|492}} 01:51, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

::I doubt that Giratina represents life after death, but I do beleive he represents Death itself. He lives in a cemetary and is part ghost. [[User:Noname|Noname]] The afterlife would be a bit of a streach and I doubt they would do that in a pokemon game.

::::::whait you're forgetting something important. If any of you has played Ruby/Sapphire, you'll note that Rayquaza is not considered part of the wheather trio, althought it has similar attacks and base stats, and it is catchable only after the elite 4. it is later given a special role in Emerald AND THEN IT IS CONSIDERED part of it. Maybe it is what will happen with Giratina, and in the third Sinnoh game, a legend will say that Arceus created the three, as it happened in Emerald with Rayquaza who in Ruby/Sapphire is not mentioned anywhere. [[User:Hfc2x|Hfc2x]] 20:57, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Well, until then, this is pure speculation, which does not belong here. We need a template or something that states that it's only speculation, and is not canon as of yet. [[User:Vekter|Vekter]] 17:03, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Maybe Giratina is part of the trio, opposing both Palkia and Dialga. I believe it's something like this: Palkia is space, Dialga is time, and Giratina would be the ''absence'' of space/time. If it's established that Giratina is "a Pokémon from another dimension", it's very easy to understand that the concept of time is different to Giratina. Also, his signature move being "Dark Void" tells us about the concept of space (also different from ours). Anyway, let's wait for the third game. I'm quite sure they'll explore Giratina as opposed to Dialga/Palkia, or maybe some collateral effect of Arceus' creation. --[[User:Rafaelpuff|Rafaelpuff]] 20:04, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

:I agree 100% with you, but Giratina's signature move is {{m|Shadow Force}}. {{m|Dark Void}} is {{p|Darkrai}}'s signature. '''[[User:Hfc2x|hfc]][[User talk:Hfc2x|2X]]''' 03:27, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

::Since this is speculation anyway, consider this: Giratina's Shadow Force makes it "suddenly vanish", making it completely untouchable. It's possible it does this but exploiting it's absence of space and time, then the next turn it rematerializes intersecting its target, causing the damage as the solid matter (or pseudo-solid in Giratina's case) violently attempts to resolve a physical impossibility.--[[User:Zyphers|Zyphers]] 12:15, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes, sorry, my bad. I've written {{m|Dark Void}} with the ingame animation of {{m|Shadow Force}} in mind. Thanks for the correction. Now, what about the new rumours? About Giratina being the mascot of the third game? If these rumours are confirmed, I guess it's no doubt that there is a Dragon Trio. Also, Serebii.net announced that there'll be a new dual-type form to Arceus - maybe an ancient form of Arceus before he "created the Dragons from itself"? Well, anyway, this is only speculation. But I like Zyphers' theory (about Giratina's Shadow Force) very much. --[[User:Rafaelpuff|Rafaelpuff]] 17:27, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

==Dragon Trio has been officially confirmed==
At last no more speculation. People who hasn't checked Serebii.net do it. A hi-res scan of the Coro coro magazine has leaked and is available [http://serebii.net/platinum/scan.jpg here]. As you can see in the pic, cyrus is standing in front of Dialga, Palkia and the shadow of Giratina. '''[[User:Hfc2x|hfc]][[User talk:Hfc2x|2X]]''' 21:33, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
:That imaged could be faked or photoshopped......[[User:Darth Cookie Monster|C is for Cookie]] 21:37, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
::Please know that THE WHOLE THING CAN BE FAKE!•'''[[User:Pokemaniac102|Poke]][[User talk:Pokemaniac102|maniac]]102''' 21:43, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

giratina is on teh box art for pokemon platinum which has been officially announced... [[User:Arutoa|Arutoa]] 20:56, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
:Well then NOW it is conformed.•'''[[User:Pokemaniac102|Poke]][[User talk:Pokemaniac102|maniac]]102''' 20:58, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
::well then lugia ho-oh and suicune are a trio by that logic - touché! '''{{Colored link|:User:Origamiguy|808080|Origami}}{{Colored link|:User:Origamiguy|FF8000|Guy}}-{{Colored link|:User_talk:Origamiguy|808080|T}}-{{Colored link|Special:Contributions/Origamiguy|FF8000|C}}-{{Colored link|:User_talk:Origamiguy/Mudkipz|0080FF|M}}''' 11:36, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
:::Not really. The boxart proves nothing by itself, or Charizard, Blastoise, and Venusaur would be a trio. But with the other evidence shared among the members of this trio (similar typing, all half {{t|Dragon}}; similar moves at the same levels; similar origin for their names ''Dia''mond/Dialga, ''P''e''a''r''l''/Palkia, Pla''tina''/Giratina)... well it pretty much says it all. But ''until we get evidence that Arceus also made Giratina'', which is undoubtedly the case, I would say, the dragon trio technically is unconfirmed. Come September, though, the whole thing will become clear.
:::I hate to be a hardass here, but hey, we're not taking any crap when it comes to anime Pokémon's gender (even for Ash's Charizard, and that's ''honestly ridiculous'' in my mind), so no crap is taken here. This trio is almost official. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 05:04, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
::::Where is it written that trios ''have'' to have a master? That idea came more from the anime and the [[The Power of One|second movie]] than anything else. Furthermore, should we really be classifying trios of [[version mascot]]s the same way we do the honest-to-[[Arceus (Pokémon)|God]] trios (ie, the birds, the beasts, the golems, the bizzare psychic things)? I've always had a problem with that. --[[User:Martonimos|Martonimos]][[User talk:Martonimos|((Argh]]|[[Special:Contributions/Martonimos|Blargh))]] 09:51, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

== No way ==

It's not necessarily part of the trio, as a matter a fact, I think it's the leader-guy! Posted by the '''[[User:Optimus35|<sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''10:03 16 May 2008'''''
:Excuse me for asking, but what do you mean by "leader-guy"? As in leader of the "duo", or the duo and Arceus? [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 23:43, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
::I believe he thinks that Giratina is sort of the '''trio master''' of the '''duo'''. But I believe that they all are a trio only with Giratina being the strongest.•'''[[User:Pokemaniac102|Poke]][[User talk:Pokemaniac102|maniac]]102''' 14:24, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
Everybody wait for platinum instead of saying "NUH UH MY THEORY IZ BETR THAN YERZ". [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 23:49, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
:I never said anything. I just believe what I said.'''[[User:Pokemaniac102|P]][[User talk:Pokemaniac102|M]][[Dragon trio|102]]''' 00:24, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
::This is the same as the weather trio. They are a trio, but there's one that's seemingly more powerful than the other two. '''[[User:Hfc2x|hfc]][[User talk:Hfc2x|2X]]''' 00:58, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
:::Thats a good point but it would still be BETTER to JUST WAIT. [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 22:13, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

== images ==

I think the image should go back to the turnback cave 1 the new 1 does not clearly depict Giratina its a silohuette and the others are in Sprite Form.
[[User:Sailor Earth|Sailor Earth]] 20:40, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
:The new image is important, though, as it demonstrates that there is probably some sort of link between the three. I think we should have both images; that way, there'd be one for each of them on their own in DP, and one of them all together in Platinum. --[[User:Martonimos|Martonimos]][[User talk:Martonimos|((Talk))]] 21:47, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
I agree 100% [[User:Sailor Earth|Sailor Earth]] 21:49, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

== Hey... ==

Look Its a trio with it being Dialga:Time Palkia:Space Giratina: '''VOID''' with arceus being the trio master of spirit and the dragon trio. [[User:Atomix26|Atomix26]] 17:16, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

== Proof ==

Pokémon Platinum serves as proof that this is a trio similar to the weather trio. --[[User talk:Shiny Noctowl|Shiny Noctowl]] 20:59, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

:Wouldn't that be like saying Lugia, Ho-Oh and Suicune are a trio? ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 17:58, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
::Nopes. Lugia and Ho-oh are kind of a duo, and Suicune is just a version mascot. Suicune has nothing to do with Lugia and that's why they aren't a trio. In Gen III however, Groudon and Kyogre were a duo, and Rayquaza was a Pokémon that had apparently no relation to the other two (not even in its pokédex description). However in Emerald, it was revealed to be part of the trio, as it's the only one capable of stoping the effects of Kyogre and Groudon. This is exactly the same that's gonna happen with Giratina. '''[[User:Hfc2x|hfc]][[User talk:Hfc2x|2X]]''' 20:06, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

== I've been thinking about something... ==

I was watching TV one day and they said something about Time, Space and DIMENSION.
That made me think about how each of the dragon trio has a certain control over what they represent
and that Giratina has control over dimension. So wouldn't that make Giratina represent Dimension? [[User:Darkmaster0]] 20:09, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
:True. '''[[User:LugiaFan|''Lugia'']][[User talk:LugiaFan|''Rules!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"]]''' 17:05, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
::I was thinking the same. In fact I'd like to suggest renaming the trio to a more specific term like '''Reality trio''', as in time, space and dimension being the three elements of reality, though I prefer to leave it up for debate. --[[User:Kaoz|Kaoz]] 01:20, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
:Maybe it was on doctor who - TARDIS stands for {{p2|Dialga|'''Time'''}} And Relative {{p2|Giratina|'''Dimension'''}} In {{p2|Palkia|'''Space'''}}. '''{{Colored link|:User:Origamiguy|ff8000|Lord}} of {{Colored link|:User_talk:Origamiguy|ff8000|Ori}}{{Colored link|Special:Contributions/Origamiguy|ff8000|gami}}''' 12:50, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
::TARDIS Dragons, then? :) --[[User:Kaoz|Kaoz]] 13:33, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
:::LOL'''[[User:Shazaaaam|SHA]][[User_talk:Shazaaaam|ZAA]][[Special:Contributions/Shazaaaam|AAM!]]''' 13:35, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
I think that Giratina represents the NEGATIVE of Dialga and Palkia's respective dimensions, like the negative of an photograph. It's as if the negative were intertwined behind the strings of dimension, thus it having a connection, like an astral plane. [[User:TorchicBlaziken|TorchicBlaziken]] 14:20, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Somebody is misinformed here. Space is the combination OF the first three DIMENSION'''S'''. The fourth Dimension is the forward and backward directions of Time. Also, if Giratina resides in the '''Reverse'''World, then surely there should be a fourth - to oppose both Dialga and Palkia! Do I make sense?[[User:Monblazon|Monblazon]] 20:59, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
:Hmm, sorry to bump an old topic, but I believe SPACE is the first three dimensions and TIME is the fourth. A 3D thing can't see anything 4D or higher (that's why we can't 'see' time). Giratina is in the Reverse World, supposedly a separate world from ours. However, could it be that the Reverse World is our world, just that it has more dimensions? And building on that, does that mean that the Reverse World allows travel in time? '''[[User:Optimatum|<sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Optimatum|Talk]]|[[User:Optimatum/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''06:46 3 Sep 2008'''''
::Now that you mention it, string theory has those six extra curled-up dimensions, which could be why the Reverse/Torn world is shaped so oddly...
::Although I somehow doubt that the people responsible for coming up with these things pay much attention to theoretical physics. --[[User:Martonimos|Martonimos]][[User talk:Martonimos|((Argh]]|[[Special:Contributions/Martonimos|Blargh))]] 20:45, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
:::Especially since those curled up dimensions are very 'small'. And that it is called the 'Reverse' world suggests a form of opposition, as is found with matter and anti-matter, therefore necessitating the need for a fourth related Legendary to maintain the balance the worlds. i.e. If Giratina is the 'Reverse' equivalent of either Dialga or Palkia, then there is an imbalance - and a Gap to be filled by another Reverse World Pokémon.[[User:Monblazon|Monblazon]] 23:58, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
== New Table ==
I think this resolves everything:

{| border="1" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0"
|Species
| align="center"| [[Image:Spr_4d_483.png]] {{p|Dialga}} || align="center"| [[Image:Spr_4d_484.png]] {{p|Palkia}} || align="center"| [[Image:Spr_4d_487.png]] {{p|Giratina}}
|-
| Type 1
| style="background: #{{Steel color}};" | '''Steel'''-type
| style="background: #{{Water color}};" | '''Water'''-type
| style="background: #{{Ghost color}};" | '''Ghost'''-type
|-
| Type 2
| style="background: #{{Dragon color}};" | '''Dragon'''-type
| style="background: #{{Dragon color}};" | '''Dragon'''-type
| style="background: #{{Dragon color}};" | '''Dragon'''-type
|-
| Level 10
| style="background: #{{Steel color}};" | ''{{m|Metal Claw}}'' '''Steel'''-Type
| style="background: #{{Water color}};" | ''{{m|Water Pulse}}'' '''Water'''-type
| style="background: #{{Ghost color}};" | ''{{m|Ominous Wind}}'' '''Ghost'''-type
|-
| Level 40
| style="background: #{{Dragon color}};" | ''{{m|Roar of Time}}'' '''Dragon'''-type
| style="background: #{{Dragon color}};" | ''{{m|Spacial Rend}}'' '''Dragon'''-type
| style="background: #{{Ghost color}};" | ''{{m|Shadow Force}}'' '''Ghost'''-type
|-
| Level 80
| style="background: #{{Steel color}};" | ''{{m|Flash Cannon}}'' '''Steel'''-type
| style="background: #{{Water color}};" | ''{{m|Aqua Tail}}'' '''Water'''-type
| style="background: #{{Ghost color}};" | ''{{m|Shadow Claw}}'' '''Ghost'''-type
|}

'''{{Colored link|:User:Origamiguy|ff8000|Lord}} of {{Colored link|:User_talk:Origamiguy|ff8000|Ori}}{{Colored link|Special:Contributions/Origamiguy|ff8000|gami}}''' 13:23, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

== Form/Forme ==

Change it. It's in the article. '''[[User:Optimatum|<sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Optimatum|Talk]]|[[User:Optimatum/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''06:52 3 Sep 2008'''''

:There's no real need to change something if pretty much 100% it's not going to stick, such as this whole "forme" bullsh*t. Trust me, it'll be "Origin Form" when it's revealed stateside, and that'll be the end of this whole "forme" debacle. --[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 15:22, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Talk:Arceus (Pokémon)/Archive 1

2008-09-03T19:48:24Z

Monblazon:

Um, {{u|TTEchidna}}, you put down that Arseus can become an ???-type Pokémon by holding a ??? Plate. Where'd you get that from?--[[User:Pokencyclopedia|Pokencyclopedia]] 21:35, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Man u have got to be kidding me Arceus catch rate should not be 3. I used my Action replay to get the item 4 arceus then i went and caought it on my 5th dusk ball. My friend caought it on him 1st ultra ball. Another friend i gave the item 2 caught it on his 2nd qiuck ball.
:Man, you have to be kidding me, you can't even spell the word "you" right. Arceus's catch rate is 3. If you'll notice, those balls multiply the catch rate formula by quite a bit, which greatly increases the chance to be caught. Plus, it's all on luck, I've had Magikarp break out of balls before. --'''[[User:TTEchidna|T]][[User talk:TTEchidna|T]][[wp:Echidna|Echidna]]''' 22:36, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

I added an alternative origin to Arceus's name that I found on: http://www.serebiiforums.com/showthread.php?t=286767.[[User:Draconium|Draconium]] 23:42, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

==Is there a point...==
Is there a point of having a table for each of the plates when it is attached to Arceus?
We could just have Arceus without a plate, and then have each title with an image and a sentence saying what type Arceus changes to.
For Example:

==Type effectiveness==
===No plate equipped===
{{DP type effectiveness|
type1=normal|
Normal= 100 |
Fighting=200 |
Flying= 100 |
Poison= 100 |
Ground= 100 |
Rock= 100 |
Bug= 100 |
Ghost= 0 |
Steel= 100 |

Fire= 100 |
Water= 100 |
Grass= 100 |
Electric=100 |
Psychic= 100 |
Ice= 100 |
Dragon= 100 |
Dark= 100 }}
[[Image:Spr 4d 493-Fire.png|thumb|right|Sprite for {{type2|Fire}} Arceus]]
===With Flame Plate===
When the Flame Plate is attached to Arceus, it becomes a Fire type.

etc... [[User:Tesh|Tesh]] 23:06, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

==Picture==
I have this picture:

[[Image:Arceus.PNG]]

I did not draw it. I want to use it on the page. It is much better than trying to stare at a tiny sprite. --[[User:Stinkoman|Stinkoman]] 15:08, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

:Better than a sprite for sure, but it'd be nice if we could find one without such bad compression artifacts. [[User:Invisible Shiny Bulbasaur|Invisible Shiny Bulbasaur]] 22:30, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
::I don't think we should really be using an unofficial image for the page. What would be nice is if somebody could get a nice, high-quality (as in NOT a photo of the monitor) screenshot of ARceus from PBR.--[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 01:22, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
:::You mean hack an Arceus and copy it into PBR?
[[Image:Psychic-attack.png|Psychic]][[Image:Ani475MS.gif]] '''[[User:Optimus35|Agent]] [[Gallade (Pokémon)|448]][[User talk:Optimus35|Talk]] | [[User:Optimus35/Diamond&Pearl|DP]]''' [[Image:Fighting-attack.png|Fighting]] 11:46, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

== Sprites? ==

Should we include separate sprite templates for all of the forms, or just do it for one? I know that Unown and Castform, among others, would serve the same problem. '''[[User:TTEchidna|T]][[User talk:TTEchidna|T]][[wp:Echidna|Echidna]]''' 22:10, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

== Art?! ==

I'd like to know the source of Arceus' picture. Mainly because it hasn't been revealed yet. TinaTheKirlia 02:44, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
:It's a piece of fanart. --[[User:DarkfireTaimatsu|DarkfireTaimatsu]] 02:47, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
::That's what I thought, although there was an edit that said "Official Art" or something and it was rather confusing. TinaTheKirlia 16:29, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
I think we should replace that art with a sprite. It seems inaccurate... Mariocaper 19:19, 20 September 2007

Yeah, and we could enlarge the size of the sprite so it won't be that tiny anymore, right? [[Image:Psychic-attack.png|Psychic]]http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/sprites/dpiconani/dpiconani475.gif '''[[User:Optimus35|Optimus35]][[User talk:Optimus35|Talk]] | [[User:Optimus35/Diamond&Pearl|DP]]''' [[Image:Fighting-attack.png|Fighting]] 06:45, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
:Enlarged sprites look terrible. --[[User:DarkfireTaimatsu|DarkfireTaimatsu]] 06:49, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
::Couldn't we get a PBR screenshot? And I mean a screenshot, not someone pointing their camera at a television? (We need that for Rosy and Sashay, too...)--[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 07:13, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
::I can't, my FRAPS only works on full screen games like Maple Story...I think we could take the Arceus photo, enlarge it and sharpen it a little, then put it back on bulba. The only problem with this is that the sprite would be oversize...
:::I hope that you have permission to use that piece of fan art. --[[Special:Contributions/Kenji-girl|☆]][[Tracey Sketchit|ケンジ]][[User:Kenji-girl|ガール]] 21:27, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
::::I've got five PBR shots. They're all in my [[User:Optimus35/Sandbox|sandbox]]. Click on the links under 'Arceus'. Tell me which one looks best on my talk page and I'll upload it onto Bulbagarden Archives...[[Image:Ani475MS.gif]] '''[[User:Optimus35|Agent]] [[User:Optimus35/Mission|4]][[User:Optimus35/Emerald|4]][[Gallade (Pokémon)|8]][[User talk:Optimus35|δ]] | [[User:Optimus35/Diamond&Pearl|DP]]''' | [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?limit=50&title=Special%3AContributions&contribs=user&target=Optimus35&namespace=0&year=&month=-1 ☆][[Image:Ani282MS.gif]] 09:01, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Change the pic!
[[User:Crystallucario|Crystallucario]] 14:54, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
:The reason why we're not changing it is because it's nicely done fanart, and it's more easier to look at this instead of a sprite.
:Otherwise it'd be absolute hell for me to draw Arceus. Still is, but certainly more easier than looking at a sprite. :p [[User:Tina|Tina]] [[Special:Contributions/Tina|δ]][[User talk:Tina|♫]] 16:40, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
hmmm maybe ok whatever...
[[User:Crystallucario|CrystalLucario 12:23, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
::...except, do we have permission to use the image? The image page doesn't seem to claim it at all, so I'm going to go ahead and guess that we're doing something illegal or at least unethical here. Seriously, why can't we just use a PBR shot?[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 00:58, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
:::Since when was pokemon ever ethical? Think about it, the aim of the game is to run away from home at 10 years old (good parenting skills mom) and after having abuse a poor little starly to the brink of death by slashing it over and over again with false swipe you throw something at it, only adding to the poor creature's pain and torture only to trap it inside a small, cramped chamber for the rest of its unnatural life whilst using it to abuse other pokemon. But anyways I digress, the point is the piece of fanart looks nice, is accurate and fits in perfectly with all the official pokemon artwork. Hell when I first visited the page I thought it WAS a piece of official artwork. A PBR snapshot would not be at all as effective as the fanart. So no, we ain't havin a PBR shot. [[User:Wikid|Wikid]] 16:20, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

::::No one is questioning the ethics of the series, just in using someone else's work without their consent. Besides, the face is drawn wrong. There should be more lines running across it. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 16:28, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Metronome ==

My Mew used Judgement through Metronome. Should I include something like this under "Trivia":

Although Nintendo is attempting to keep Arceus secret, it is possible for Arceus's signature move, {{m|Judgment}}, to be used through {{m|Metronome}}, thus potentially revealing the existence of Arceus to otherwise unaware fans.

--[[User:Shiny Noctowl|Shiny Noctowl]][[User talk:Shiny Noctowl|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Shiny Noctowl|Contribs]][[Image:Ani480MS.gif]] 20:33, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

i could draw arceus if that would help. i like drawing pokémon. [[talonclawz]] new comer!!!!!!!!!! [[Image:Ani444MS.gif‎]]

== Shishigami? ==

Should any mention of the Forest Spirit Shishigami from Miyazaki Hayao's Mononoke-Hime be mentioned in the article? Arceus seems to have a resemblance to Shishigami. In addition, on the illegal hacked Pokémon Diamond (Telefang Power), Shishigami appears on the front, despite not having anything to do with the game (that's the way those criminals work), and then in the real Pokémon Diamond, Arceus was added. Does anyone else think that some trivia should be added about this? ~Kumori Satosuke
:Outside of the whole quadrupedal thing, I don't think there's anything else that's official to suggest a connection. For example, Arceus seems to be nothing outside of a creator, while shishigami is given dominion over life and death.--[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 03:27, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
::Yes, I agree. There really isn't anything linking the two other than a vague (And I do mean VAGUE.) resemblance. --[[User:Dual|Dual]] 14:15, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

== ??? type sprite may prevent crash ==
Just a theory, but the programmers at Game Freak may have drawn and programmmed a ??? type Arceus to prevent game crashes. Anyone with a code patcher can figure out how to change a Pokémon's type. They might have figured that someone would tamper with Arceus's type, and if they changed it to a ??? type, and there was no sprite for it, the game would crash because it would try loading data that does not exist. That's my theory anyway. [[User:Fsilone|Fsilone]] 02:10, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
:That's really logical. figure that by yourself? But I still don't know if we should put that in the article.[[Image:Ani471MS.gif]][[User:Pokemaniac102|'''Poke''''''maniac''''''102''']][[Image:AniEggMS.gif]] 02:17, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

::im a little iffy on the grammer, but other than that i think its a fantastic theory and should be in the trivia section. excellent. now all i need to do is figure out how to do it myself in my game with the Action Replay... [[Image:Ani081MS.gif|35px]][[User:MAGNEDETH|MAGNEDETH]][[Image:Ani082MS.gif|35px]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|TALK]][[Image:Ani462MS.gif|35px]] 02:30, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

:::You can't - you need to edit the rom data - action replay only edits temporary and save data. Think so anyway. '''[[:User:Origamiguy|折り紙ガイ]] - [[:User_talk:Origamiguy|離す]][[:Special:Contributions/Origamiguy|貢献]]''' 15:37, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

I think I don't see anything grammatically wrong. I copied the words above and reworded it into sentences.[[Image:Ani471MS.gif]][[User:Pokemaniac102|'''Poke''''''maniac''''''102''']][[Image:AniEggMS.gif]] 02:34, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

:yea, im probibly wrong, im not joking when i say i failed english class......twice...with a 54..... [[Image:Ani081MS.gif|35px]][[User:MAGNEDETH|MAGNEDETH]][[Image:Ani082MS.gif|35px]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|TALK]][[Image:Ani462MS.gif|35px]] 03:42, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

what the heck is shishigami? is it a pokémon?(someone out there?) [[-talonclawz]] new comer!!!!! [[Image:212MS.gif]] 1:06, 5 April 2008

No. Wait a minute if you don't know that Errr...how new are you to Pokémon?[[User:Crystallucario|'''''Crystal''''']] [[User talk:Crystallucario|'''''Lucario''''']] 17:43, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

A shishigami is a Japanese god of death. [[User:LordKaien|LordKaien]] 14:51, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

== {{type2|???}} Sprite ==

[[Image:Question-Type Arceus Before.jpg|thumb|left|Before]][[Image:Question-Type Arceus After.jpg|thumb|right|After]]How long has the sprite of ???-type Arceus been pulling that vanishing act? Basically, the only time you can see the sprite is when the white background on PNG-format images is still visible, as seen in the Before shot. Once the white backgrounds vanish, the rest of the sprite should still be there. However, on ???-type Arceus, the sprite vanishes along with the background, as seen in the After shot. Is there a way to fix this?

(The shots in question come from an area of my own user page, specifically a [[Template:User Favorite Move|favorite move tag]] programmed for a ???-type move and {{m|Curse}} with the Arceus sprite in question for a laugh. The [[Template:User 2000|2000-edits in a month tag]] above it is also shown for comparison.) --[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 05:41, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

:Wow. That's weird that it just disappears! --[[Image:Spr 3e 059.gif|70px]][[Image:Spr 3e 132.gif]]'''[[User:Theryguy512|Theryguy]][[User:Theryguy512/Contribution Page|5]][[User:Theryguy512/Mission Page|1]][[User:Theryguy512/Sandbox|2]]''' [[Image:Trozeiani025.gif]] 11:59, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
I think I figured out the vanishing act. It's due to the filename. Many operating systems don't allow question marks in filenames, and it's probably due to those that caused the image to vanish. I went and uploaded an image to [[a:Image:Spr 4d 493-Unknown.png|Image:Spr 4d 493-Unknown.png]] on the archives, and that image works as it should! Every instance of the vanishing image has been changed to the one that doesn't vanish, so you won't be seeing vanishing ???-type Arceus again anytime soon. --[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 16:37, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

== Pic ==

Okay, I remember {{u|Urutapu}} saying something about a screenshot of Arceus from PBR. Well, I got a Wii ''and'' PBR for Christmas. And I have *cough*cheated*cough* four Arceuses. All I need now is a good-quality emulator that can screenshot my Wii with. Any suggestions?
--{{u|Stinkoman}}

Somehow theres a way of putting a SCART socket into your PC and running it through that. My mate's computer can do that but i think it had the socket when he bought it. [[Image:Ani258MS.gif]][[User:Origamiguy|OrigamiGuy]] Lieks [[Mudkip (Pokémon)|Mudkipz]][[Image:Ani258MS.gif]]

== Officially been revealed ==
Until this Pokemon has been officially revealed (by Nintendo or Coro Coro magazine) this page should be removed, because the only reason why there is proof of its existence is through a hacking or cheating device.
:WHAT! This page should be included on here. If it is in the Game, weather or not if it has been reaveled, it IS STILL IN THE GAME WITHOUT HAVING TO BE MADE{{Ani|493}}[[User:Darth Cookie Monster|'''C ''']]{{Ani|491}}[[User talk:Darth Cookie Monster|''' Is''']]{{Ani|426}}[[User:Darth Cookie Monster/My Story|'''for Cookie''']]{{Ani|473}}
::Yea, this page is about a Pokémon. In case you don't know (hopefully you do), this is a Pokémon encyclopedia. This page is like mandatory. --'''[[User:Theryguy512|Theryguy]][[User talk:Theryguy512|5]][[User:Theryguy512/Contribution Page|1]][[User:Theryguy512/Similarities|2]]''' 02:12, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
:::Exactly. We have pages for all Pokémon ''officially programmed into the games''. Would you come here before Deoxys was revealed and say "NUH UH THERE'S ONLY 201 IN HOENN DEOXYS IS A HAKKER ONLY POKEMAN." Arceus is official, they're just holding off on the official revelation. Besides... plenty of Pokémon from each generation were never revealed through CoroCoro or by Nintendo individually. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]][[Image:Ani155MS.gif|Fire echy]]''' 07:07, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

I may only be 10, but take it from me. Arceus is real. It is on pokemon.com's pokedex.[[User:DaPikanator56|DaPikanator56]] 18:47, 22 March 2008 (UTC){{u|DaPikanator56}}
:Well, actually, it's not on the PokéDex on [[Pokemon.com]], but yes, it is real. --'''[[User:Theryguy512|Theryguy]][[User talk:Theryguy512|5]][[User:Theryguy512/Contribution Page|1]][[User:Theryguy512/Similarities|2]]''' 13:17, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
::An example of what TTE said would be the Porygons. '''<sc>[[User:Optimus35|{{tt|Optimatum♏|Optimus35}}]]</sc>[[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|♊]]02:32 30 Mar 2008'''

Oh yeah! It and ummm... {{p|Shaymin}} I think aren't Theryguy.[[User:DaPikanator56|DaPikanator56]] 18:52, 30 March 2008 (UTC){{u|DaPikanator56}}
:Shaymin has been acknowledged by official Japanese sources. And to address the original point, we are not Wikipedia. Everyone knows that Arceus is real, so this page is a necessity. Hell, we have articles for a lot of glitch Pokémon so a real one definately passes. --[[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] [[User talk:Fabu-Vinny|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Fabu-Vinny|C]]-[[User:Fabu-Vinny/Sandbox|S]] 23:52, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

True...Oh, and by the way, in the summer I will shorten my visits here, but this place rules! It ain't demented like Chuckie Cheese's.
:) ^-^[[User:DaPikanator56|DaPikanator56]] 22:31, 3 April 2008 (UTC)DaPikanator56

==Picture==

I found this picture interesting, but low quality. [http://www.pokebeach.com/news/0507/arceus.jpg its on www.pokebeach.com] --[[User:Britannia's Blade|Britannia's Blade]] 21:25, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
:Good find, but it's already linked from the article [[Arceus (Pokémon)#External links|right here]]. --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 23:38, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

------------
I also just found this one [http://www.arkeis.com/images/pokemonfactory/arceus.png ****] Fan art of course but very serious looking, Lots more like it [http://www.arkeis.com/legendaries.htm here] what do you think? --[[User:Britannia's Blade|Britannia's Blade]] 18:47, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
:I don't see how fanart is very notable to put up here.. >_> [[User:Tina|Tina]] [[Special:Contributions/Tina|δ]][[User talk:Tina|♫]] 19:06, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
::The one we have right now will do us until Arcy is revealed next year. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 20:37, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
:::What about this one? - [http://www.pokebeach.com/news/0507/arceus2.jpg (1)] '''[[:User:Origamiguy|折り紙ガイ]] - [[:User_talk:Origamiguy|離す]][[:Special:Contributions/Origamiguy|貢献]]''' 15:45, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
::::-Gasp- Why not that one! Ooo, take it! TAKE IT!!! '''[[User:Optimus35|<sc>Optimatum</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''13:53 2 May 2008'''''
TTE, Arceus isn't going 2 be revealed 4 two years yet. [[User:LordKaien|LordKaien]] 14:53, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

==Arceus and Giratina==
Aren't Arceus and Giratina sort of opposites of each other because Arceus is God and Giratina is the devil sort of, I mean Arceus didn't create Giratina so that means they were the two entities before time started. [[User:Big Johnno|Pokémon Master]] 17:46 15 May 2008
:Maybe you're right, but i think that Giratina is part of the Dragon Trio. [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 23:37, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
::Giratina is the BOSS! It saved the two other Pokamon! Posted by the '''[[User:Optimus35|<sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''01:04 17 May 2008'''''
:Hold on, there's no reason to get angry. Why can't we just WAIT until Arceus is officially revealed? Isn't that BETTER than argueing? [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 23:37, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

In my eyes it would be

Dialga + Palkia = Rivals (Time VS Space)

Giratina + Arceus = Rivals (God VS Darkness?)

So yeah, regardless of the fact Giratina is part of the Dragon Trio.
(''Thinking about it, those four are exactly the same as my characters |: Lily = Controls Time. Darkness = Controls Space. Akito = Controls Death. Rose = Controls Life/Is a sort-of God. But anyway, my characters are irrelevant too this xD'') [[User:Takoto|Takoto タコト]]| サソデイ = 愛 14:37, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
:So, Arceus is God/JesusHoly Spirit, and Giratina is Satan? O.O It's Da '''[[User:Optimus35|<sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''06:03 26 May 2008'''''
::Arceus is Arceus. Giratina is Giratina. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 07:02, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
:::Meh, that's the Atheist way of seeing it. Hey, wait, am I about to be stone for being anti-atheist? Damn. It's Da '''[[User:Optimus35|<sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''07:13 26 May 2008'''''
::::I didn't say Giratina was Satan, i simply said he was...darkness. [[User:Takoto|Takoto タコト]]| サソデイ = 愛 02:05, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
My question is, how do you KNOW Giratina is bad, or if Arceus is even good? How do you KNOW Giratina wasn't created by Arceus? You don't. Besides, Neither ot them are from Christianity, and U know what? I'm a devout Christian and I don't care if Arceus wasn't based off of my God. [[User:LordKaien|LordKaien]] 14:56, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
:Does anybody want to see it this way, "WE SHOULD ALL JUST WAIT"? [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 22:06, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
::I don't think Giratina is evil. You don't have too be evil/whatever to control darkness/whatever Giratina controls. I do not think Giratina is evil! [[User:Takoto|Takoto タコト]]| サソデイ = 愛 22:22, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
:Is this text INVISIBLE? WE SHOULD ALL JUST WAIT! [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 00:28, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
::Thank you, good people of bulbapedia, for waiting. [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 00:57, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

== More sprites ==

Ok, so we have all the type sprites for Arceus and it's shiny sprite, but we don't have shiny forms for Arceus' other types. Could someone please tell me if it's possible to get those sprites and if so get them for us? [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 12:08, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
:If i could, i would, but i can't, so i can't help you. I'm not even 100% sure Arceus's other-type sprites HAVE shiny versions of them :| [[User:Takoto|Takoto タコト]]| サソデイ = 愛 14:27, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
::They do. And a simple method is to color the sprites the right color. The white portion of the body is the only part which remains constant throughout the non-shiny forms. and when it becomes shiny, the rings are the same color as those of the non-shiny ones. The only thing that differs between non-shiny and shiny is the white portion, which turns yellow. It's Da '''[[User:Optimus35|<sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''06:01 26 May 2008'''''
:So... could you do that for us as a favor? [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 22:02, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
::I might have those sprites on my computer somewhere. Want me to upload them? [[User:Yinyang1195|Yin]][[User talk:Yinyang1195|Yang]] 20:05, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
:Why don't you recolor them...it will be easy.--[[User:Tavisource|☆Tavis]][[User talk:Tavisource|ource]] 00:49, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
::I dont no how... [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 00:54, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
:Hmm...I would do it, but I'm very busy right now, you could go ask hcfx2 for help, he's great at recoloration.--[[User:Tavisource|☆Tavis]][[User talk:Tavisource|ource]] 00:57, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
:Nevermind, i found them on "a:Catagory:Arceus". But thanks :) [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 01:11, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

== Metronome and Judgement ==

If a player knows nothing about Arceus, how would they know that Judgement is its signature attack? Even if it is used by a Pokémon using Metronome. So could Metronome really spoil the surprise? ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 02:50, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
:Not really. ^^; Metronome can do ANYTHING. Even Explosion so...'''[[User:Optimus35|It's the <sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''02:54 4 Jun 2008'''''
::Well, if they were like "Ooh, what learns that?!" and can't find anyone, they'll suspect it to be some crazy legendary not yet shown. And have lived under a rock since EVERYONE KNOWS OF ARCEUS. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 03:03, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
:::Hmm, then Singapore must be under a rock. Only two people I know know what's Arceus, that includes me. '''[[User:Optimus35|It's the <sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''03:12 4 Jun 2008'''''
::::Or this is nintendo's way of teasing us. kinda like,
Player:"What pokémon learns this?"
Nintendo:"Wait and see"
Player:"You suck."[[User:LordKaien|LordKaien]] 12:39, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

I only ask because of this quote in the trivia:

"''Although Nintendo is attempting to keep Arceus secret, it is possible for Arceus's signature move, Judgment, to be used through Metronome, thus potentially revealing the existence of Arceus to otherwise unaware fans.''"

Plus, Nintendo ''has'' to know that the majority of their fanbase uses the internet. Every Pokémon website except the "official" ones have info on Arceus. A lot of them even before the games were released globally. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 15:57, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
:The majority of the fanbase are kids who don't necessarily visit fansites. --[[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] |[[User talk:Fabu-Vinny|Talk Page]]| 16:02, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
::No ([[User:MathijsP|MathijsP]] 16:03, 4 June 2008 (UTC))
:::Yes. --[[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] |[[User talk:Fabu-Vinny|Talk Page]]| 16:04, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
::::No ([[User:MathijsP|MathijsP]] 16:05, 4 June 2008 (UTC))

:::::I would have to disagree with that statement. I believe that most fans may have been kids at the beginning when Pokémon first came out, but now have grown as the series has. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 16:18, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

A similar thing happened to me when I was playing PBR. I ordered my Togepi to use Metronome and out came Judgment. I wondered what Pokémon used this move until I checked this site and I found Arceus. I didn't even know about its existence AT ALL when Metronome was used that one year ago... {{ani|385}}[[User:BlueJirachi|BlueJirachi]] 18:01, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

== Arceus's pattern in the anime? ==

I didn't get a second look (mainly because I deleted the episode from my DVR), but I heard in the episode "Journey to the Unknown!" that Saturn was holding a cube with Arceus's pattern on it... [[User:ShinyRayquaza|ShinyRayquaza]] 19:35, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

== Arceus + Sky Plate? ==

If you attach a Sky Plate to Arceus, wouldn't that make it become the first pure Flying-type Pokémon? [[User:Wynautluvr|Wynautluvr]] 16:53, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

:It is the first "permanent" pure Flying-type. The Porygon line can become Flying-types with their Conversion moves, and Kecleon can with its Color Change Ability. These Pokémon, however, revert back to Normal when the battle is over. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 18:56, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

::It's not permanent, in that you can change the plate and it loses the pure-flying status... '''[[:User:Origamiguy|Lord]] of [[:User_talk:Origamiguy|Ori]][[Special:Contributions/Origamiguy|gami]]''' 15:16, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
:::It's permanent in that it doesn't go away just because the battle ends. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 21:46, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
::::No its not. Its only a permanent flying type if its natural type (i.e. no plate) is flying. You might as well say its also the first permamnent ??? type since it can become that (potentially) too.[[User:Wikid|Wikid]] 16:43, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

:::::If you never remove the plate, then it's permanent. Plus, you can't obtain a ???-type Arceus in-game in any normal fashion. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 16:45, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

:::::: Says you. firstly, the word permanent implies that the typing can never be changed. If you unequip the plate Arceus goes back to normal therefore it's not permanent. At best I would say its semi-permament. Secondly, there might a ??? plate given out at an event or found somewhere in platinum like Glacidia's flower. ??? forme arceus might be the result when you enter the torn world with arceus. It might even be what Arceus looks like when it is a shadow pokemon as there might be a new game coming out to do with shadow pokemon and DPP might be the first generation where you can trade shadow pokemon over. Therefore if you can trade it as shadow poke between DP and platinum then there is a way to get an ??? forme Arceus in a normal fashion.[[User:Wikid|Wikid]] 17:21, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Fine. "Semi-permanent". ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 17:24, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== The ??? Plate ==

The ??? Plate exists, It is named mysterious plate by CodeJunkies, It may also be encountered in the underground as a Malfunction, people got this (like my brother) and attached it to ARCEUS, making the ??? type, no weaknesses are found on this type--[[User:M.vit|M.vit]] 00:10, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
:Believe me, people code-spelunk like there's no tomorrow...there isn't such thing.--[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 00:10, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

can M.vit at least tell how did his brother encounter such a plate, and how does it function with other Pokémon?and what happens to a Pokémon who knows the move [[curse]]

can somebody edit this article . It says that Arceus creted the Pokémon Universe,''Dragon trio'' and lake trio. Till now the dragon trio isn't officially confirmed. so whether I or somebody else should change the Dragon trio to the time-space duo: Dialga and Palkia.--[[User:Nobody777|Nobody777]] 13:56, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

well, seems that nobody is out of topic, BTW, i have seem to find this code in Code Junkies here it is
Mysterious Plate x999
94000130 fcff0000
b21c4d28 00000000
b0000004 00000000
00000890 03e70133
d2000000 00000000--[[User:M.vit|M.vit]] 16:55, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

:The plates all have different names on CodeJunkies which are the translated Japenese names. I believe the Mysterious Plate is actually the Mind Plate. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 17:13, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
::Your right, it is the mind plate. '''{{Colored link|:User:Origamiguy|ff8000|Lord}} of {{Colored link|:User_talk:Origamiguy|ff8000|Ori}}{{Colored link|Special:Contributions/Origamiguy|ff8000|gami}}''' 16:45, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

==type change==

Keckleons ability color change changes its type according to the move done by the opponent so if ???-type arceus used judjement, will it change its type? can anyone experiment?--[[User:Nobody777|Nobody777]] 13:21, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

:The fact that you can't get a ??? plate makes it difficult to say. I have no idea what would happen...♪♪[[User:ShinyPachirisu|Shiny]] [[User Talk:ShinyPachirisu|Pachirisu]] :) ♪♪ 13:23, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

::???-type moves have been hacked and have no effect. So Kecleon would probably be unaffected. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 13:39, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
:::Actually, they do have an effect... they just deal minimal damage. Lemme see what it does in Gen III later on... '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 23:41, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Pal Park]] ==

Will it really freeze the game when you put Arceus infront of the party and bla bla bla to the Pal Park?
[[User:Palkia38|Palkia38]] 03:48, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

== Now... ==

Isn't what I did so freaking cool? I mean, look at it. And the best thing is that it is totally dependent on the ''exact second'' that you save/access the page. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 07:32, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
:A fine template, indeed. Would it be useful to use something like this to generate random examples in paragraphs?
:P.S.: What you did (a calculation based on a clock) is even a good idea for a new ability or move in the game that picks a random type. --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 07:53, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
::Now if we only had the backsprites for the various forms...--[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 22:49, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
:::Two clock-based calculations would make it even more random. Watch this. {{#expr: ({{#time: U}} div {{#time: s}}) mod 9002}} {{#ifexpr: (({{#time: U}} div {{#time: s}}) mod 9002) > 9000|<big>'''← IT'S OVER 9000!!!'''</big>}}
:::As for random examples... hmm... Well, what are you thinking?
:::And I wish for the backsprites, too... And the minisprite, does it change with Arceus? '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 22:58, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

==Arceus in My Pokémon Ranch==
For a fact,someone in the German forum BisaBoard got Arceus as one of the daily Pokémon!This person was -like me- totally dumbfounded and opened that thread to know more about this phenomena.
I've asked some expert in the same message board if this would be really possible.To my surprise,he said that he checked the programme code and Arceus is really included!I think this MUST be put into the Trivia section.[[User:Uxie legend|Uxie legend]]

:How does one check the program code of a Wii Ware title? And of course Arceus would be there, it can be deposited just like any other Pokémon. Plus, I ''doubt'' that Hayley will trade you an Arceus... ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 16:02, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

::Might be wrong, but I believe there is a set list of Pokémon Hayley will only trade off, which was found and released in dr_nza's FAQ found [http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/wii/file/943658/53074 here]. The Pokémon Hayley brings are random, so I guess Arceus is a possibility, but Hayley won't be able to trade it off. - [[User:Legotim|█╬▓◘ ’M █╚▓█ (ţś_łєğǿŧΐм)]] [[User talk:Legotim|spreche]] 05:06, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

==Hmmm....==
Should we add that Arceus is the most hacked Pokemon? Every hacker I know owns a Arceus ''and'' all its plates. [[User:Strong Intelligent|Strong Intelligent]]
:No. tc26 14:03, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
::I own all the plates too. I got them underground. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 22:46, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

:::I spent so much time underground that I have more than one of each plate. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 03:22, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

== Church? ==

{{u|Sui}} keeps adding an external link to "The Church of Arceus." I'm wondering whether or not this is notable enough, or if it's just an advertisement for an obscure fansite. I don't know anything, so you guys be the judges. --[[User:Martonimos|Martonimos]][[User talk:Martonimos|((Argh]]|[[Special:Contributions/Martonimos|Blargh))]] 21:59, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

== Ūber? ==

If [[Arceus]] isn't offically reveiled, how can it be called Ūber? Can't spell.

☆ShinyPiKa 19:17, 8 August 2008 (UTC)☆
:Well, some people hack into their games and can get Arceus that way. So they know that way. ...I really dunno [[User:Takoto|Takoto タコト]]| サソデイ = 愛 19:22, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

::His stats put him in the league of the strongest Pokemon of all, so he's safe to call that. [[User:Toastypk|'''''~Toastypk''''']] - [[User_Talk:Toastypk|'''Loom.''']] 19:28, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

::: Although that is true, it isn't revealed yet so it can't be under that catagory '''yet'''. It's been annoying me, please remove it. ShinyPiKa 19:58, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

:::It's being used, and people are able to--gasp, shocker--read its stats! And, since its stats (and movepool, for that matter) are pretty decent, it can be classified as "uber," despite it being revealed or not. --'''[[User:Gabbie|gabbie]]''' | '''[[User_talk:Gabbie|talk]]''' 21:07, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

:::: But people still use Arceus on Wi-Fi. Darkrai and Shaymin were in and are still in the UBER tier so why should Arceus be any different?--[[User:Blazevoir|Blaz]][[User talk:Blazevoir|evoir]] 20:59, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

::::: Because it hasn't been revealed yet !!! :D ShinyPiKa 22:23, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
::::::You cant use Arceyus in the battle tower. [[User:MathijsP|MathijsP]] 09:30, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
::::::: Please remove [[Arceus]] from the Ūber secion 4 now, when its reveaaled u can add it back.ShinyPiKa 15:00, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
:::::::: Why? Every other website considers it ÜBER. Why should Bulba be any different?--[[User:Blazevoir|Blaz]][[User talk:Blazevoir|evoir]] 15:08, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::Because people think Nintendo will kill us for actually taking note of their stuff before they officially reveal them. Unlike Platinum's existence before May 15, though, it can be proven that Arceus exists. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 17:21, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Arceus vs. Mew ==

This is all that Mew's Pokédex entries say:

*Because it can use all kinds of moves, many scientists believe Mew to be the ancestor of Pokémon.
*Mew is said to possess the genetic composition of all Pokémon.
*Because it can learn any move, some people began research to see if it is the ancestor of all Pokémon.

First off, this kind of stuff didn't appear until Silver. Second off, it is ''very'' couched in uncertainty, and it is ''never'' said that its actually been shown to possess every type of DNA - ''only that its ability to perform any move has generated that rumor''.

Second off, several Pokémon are completely artificial, such as {{p|Grimer}}/{{p/Muk}}, {{p|Castform}}, or {{p|Porygon}}/{{p|Porygon2}}/{{p|Porygon-Z}}. So, how could Mew be considered their "ancestor", or have their DNA, if its supposed to be the "first Pokemon"? Wouldn't having the DNA of Pokemon who appeared completely separate from any genetic lineage instead imply Mew was their descendant?

Porygon is even said to be "A Pokémon that consists entirely of programming code." So, no DNA at all, and its upgrades are said to simply have had AI installed.

Even allowing for the monstrously egregious interpretations of genetics in the series, the idea that having all the DNA of a group makes you its ancestor is hogwash - its entirely the other way around.

Now, lets look at Arceus, and its info.
*It is told in mythology that this Pokémon was born before the universe even existed.
*It is described in mythology as the Pokémon that shaped the universe with its 1,000 arms.
* "Two beings of time and space set free from the Original One."
* "Three beings were born to bind time and space."
* "Two make matter and three make spirit, shaping the world."
* "The Original One breathed alone before the universe came."

Now, this is ''much'' more explicit than the Mew bit '''ever''' was. It makes it absolutely clear that Arceus came ''before even the universe itself, much less other Pokémon'', and that it in fact created the world and life itself. Once could claim that this is uncertain do to its status as "mythology", but that would be hilariously in denial of how the series has used mythology so far - as an origin story, not as something by definition uncertain or false.

How is there even a dispute about this? If it's a retcon at all, it's a fairly small one - it was clear from the beginning that the bit about Mew being the origin had a contradictory explanation.

Now, what could work is that Mew is supposed to be god-like like Arceus and other Legendaries - in this case, it would logically be some scion of life, which would in fact explain its design. If the bit about Mew containing all other DNA turned out to be "true", in the context of the franchise, then this would also make much more sense than the pseudo-scientific jargon used in Silver - Mew contains the DNA because it is the ultimate personification of life/birth, and the scientists are trying to force a contradictory explanation for the oddity in order to deny its true, supernatural origin.

So can we please stop claiming things like the D/P Pokedex "still stating that it's the ancestor of all pokémon", or that "it's no different than people believing Arceus is the creator"? [[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 06:14, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
:Creationism vs science? In my Pokémon? It's more likely than you think! '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 06:30, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

::ummm... "Uncertain", If I recall correctly, it can learn "Transform", which, unless I'm mistaken, involves the recombination of it's own DNA to match said pokemon that transforms. And, since Ditto's Pokédex entry hints that how it transforms involves it recombining it's DNA to match the pokémon it's trying to match, the same can easily be said for Mew. So, really, considering how it knows transform, and it can transform into a lot of pokémon, even legendaries that were supposedly created before it, it still has merit in regards to having the DNA of all pokémon, and thus being the ancestor of all pokémon.

::As for the Porygon/2/z example, considering the mere fact that Mew can transform into these three pokémon DESPITE apparantly not having their DNA, I think that those Pokémon have a miniscule amount of Mew's DNA (otherwise, how can Ditto [Or mew, for that matter] transform into them?].). Besides, just because they are composed entirely of AI (whether it's the free will kind or not doesn't matter) doesn't mean it can't have DNA. Take the Mega Man series (specifically, the Mega Man X subseries through the Mega Man ZX series.), the Reploids were mentioned to be complete Machines (all derived from X's design), and yet the games also mentions that they have DNA (Reploid "DNA" was used to form the Nightmare Virus, and also revive Necromances III, Harumachine, Blizzard Staggoff, and Copy X. Plus, Axl's ability involves him mimicking his enemies (and in the case of Command Mission and [Technically] ZX advent, even bosses.).

::And anyways, Mew can also transform into Grimer, Muk, and Castform, which, if Mew didn't have their DNA, then how can Mew OR Ditto even transform into them?

::Also, about it's pokedex entries, both of them contradict themselves. I mean, one says that it was born before the universe existed, and yet, the other hints that it was born a little while AFTER the Universe was created, and that all IT did was merely "shape" the universe. Plus, it doesn't even HAVE 1,000 arms in its sprite, and not only that, but It also apparantly can't even learn any attacks involving arms, such as all of the punch variants.

::as for the origin book, that ALSO doesn't mention Giratina (yet, anyways, for all we know, Platinum could add it in.), and plus, that same thing hinted that Dialga and Palkia are two halves of Arceus, but then, why cant they merge together (I mean, Dragon Quest, and Mephiles the Dark could do it without much trouble from programming data, so why cant D/P)?

::and anyways, the legends also hinted that Legendaries can't be captured by mere mortals, yet most of the crime syndicates, the Pyramid King and even the protagonist has been wielding these pokemon as if they were nothing.

::That's my ruling as to how the thing isn't retconned (well, that, as well as the fact that, if it was, then wouldn't they have removed the entry from the Pokédex?) [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 10:49, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

lets remember that game physics are different from animé physics. Dialga, Palkia and giratina symbolise physics of the Pokémon world: time, space and dimensions,so if Arceus is the master of them that wouldn't make sense:creationism and science don't go together. Mew can transform its appearance, but not the nature or unique functions of a Pokémon, and if we follow good sense we can also say that it can't copy Pokémon which evolved in a special way because their not ''original'' like trading its bioligical fusion of item and Pokémon DNA.--[[User:Nobody777|Nobody777]] 12:40, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

:I'm pretty sure that it can copy even those that evolved in a "special" way in even the Anime. Remember, Weavile evolves from Sneasel via the Sharp Claw item, which also fits under the special way, and despite that, Mew STILL transformed into that pokemon in the Lucario Movie. If it can evolve through something like that, I'm pretty certain that it is even ancestral to those pokemon who evolve via special means. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 13:50, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
:::Wait, '''''what?''''' You're saying that ''because it can do something that '''Ditto''' can do'', it must be the ancestor of all Pokemon? Wouldn't this also require Ditto to be the ancestor of all Pokemon?
:::'''Porygon''': Then you are making up things contradictory to the established in-game facts in order to force in your own fan-theory. Almost every Pokedex entry for the Porygon line reiterates that they have NOTHING but programming code.
:::'''MegaMan X''': It is never, ''ever'' stated that the robots are "completely mechanical" - that they have souls, DNA, and can merge with living things pretty much makes that theory impossible. DNA is a very specific thing - it's ''not'' a general concept about information derivation, it's a ''specific organic acid''.
:::'''Axl''': His ability has NOTHING to do with DNA, and is never claimed to. It's essentially analogous to what Transformers do.
:::'''Muk''': I didn't say that Mew didn't necessarily possess the DNA of all creatures, though that's not the only way to copy them. I said that claiming this meant it was the ancestor was so completely ignorant of evolution and genetics that it deserves ridicule.
:::However, Ditto is able to copy them because it is an amoeba, and can change the shape of its body at will. To be fair, it is ''once'' said to be able to copy the opponent's genetic code - which would only work AFTER seeing the opponent. As that is EXACTLY how Transform is described anyway, that theory is blown out of the water.
:::'''Arceus' Pokedex''': This is a bald-faced lie. The pokedex entries in no way claim that Arceus came to be after the Universe existed - at best, they claim he came before it, created it, and shaped it.
:::'''Arms''': Have you considered the fact that it could have lost them, or given them up? It is the only Arceus in existence, by the very necessity of its being, so its not going to be something like "They're all born without the arms". It "set free" all those legendaries from itself - maybe it made them from its arms, like so '''very''' many Creation Myths, ''especially the linked Pangu one''.
:::You could also consider that "1000" is often used in Japanese writing to mean "many", instead of a specific number, and as the trios of matter and spirit are considered extensions of Arceus, they could be its "appendages" in a spiritual sense. Seriously, that part of its Pokedex isn't contradictory ''at all''.
:::'''Merge''': What does this have to do with ''anything''? Why would Dragon Quest have any bearing on this?
:::'''Legends''': In the games? No, the legends don't claim that, so the fact that certain legendaries fight with trainers is not contradictory, regardless of your false assertion that it's "like nothing". In the anime, where the legends imply that messing with them is incredibly dangerous to the natural order...well, I'll just let you watch the movies, or something, and try to claim that it's "like nothing".
:::'''Remove''': Why would it be removed? It never claimed anything that was '''false''' - again, '''''it only claims that fictional scientists have a tenuous, uncertain belief based on one of its abilities'''''. The deliberate uncertainty of the Pokedex entries, in contrast to nearly every other Pokedex entry, even for Legendaries, has to be considered. If it's not simply a monstrous misunderstanding of genetics on the game designer's part, then it's almost certainly meant to be a reference to "Supernatural vs. Naturalist science".
::::''"If it can evolve through something like that, I'm pretty certain that it is even ancestral to those pokemon who evolve via special means."''
:::Again, this is inherently contradictory. If these are supposed to be new Pokemon, who only came into existence through a modern item, how could Mew possibly be said to already contain their DNA just because it can ''copy their form''? Remember, Porygon is said to be completely artificial, not an accident like Muk or Grimer.
::::''"lets remember that game physics are different from animé physics. Dialga, Palkia and giratina symbolise physics of the Pokémon world: time, space and dimensions,so if Arceus is the master of them that wouldn't make sense:creationism and science don't go together."'''
:::If Arceus is their master, then that would be in-game science. Science is the pursuit of ''truth'', not the pursuit of purely-materialistic explanations whether it's the truth or not.
:::Also, Giratina would symbolize the afterlife, or some other term for "The Other", not dimensions - "space", in the concept referred to by the triad, would necessarily contain dimensions already, parallel or measurable.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 05:46, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
::::I'm not SAYING that Ditto necessarily IS the ancestor, I only brought it into the picture since it's the only OTHER pokemon to know Transform. And besides which, the Pokédex entry for Ditto explicitly stated that it can transform by rearranging it's Genetic Structure (in other words, it's DNA) to that of it's target. It ALSO replicates their move set and, unless I'm mistaken, even their stats and natures.
::::actually, the Pokedex contradicted ITSELF in that case. I mean, if it doesn't have ANY DNA, then Ditto (not to mention Mew) couldn't transform into it OR it's family, and we all know that it can. Try and get a ditto, and try to face off against Porygon or it's family members in your games, and use transform against it if you don't believe me.
::::Ahem... when I said "Mega Man X" I mean from the Mega Man X saga ALL THE WAY to Mega Man ZX saga. In Mega Man Zero 4: ''Intro: The Reploids... They were robots designed to look like humans... these '''technical marvels''' were given unique personalities and were intended to be the perfect workers and the perfect partners of mankind...'' Later, Dr. Weil says something that would hint at Reploid being COMPLETELY mechanical. This is when Zero encounters him at the Ragnarōk core: Dr. Weil: ''Justice!? Freedom!? Worthless ideals! '''You Reploids are Just Machines, but you started a war a long time ago in the name of freedom!''' And Humans! Look what they did to me! Driving Me away while spurting the word "Justice!"'' And don't assume that he knows nothing about Reploid Physiology since he worked on reviving Reploids prior to his banishment from Neo Arcadia, and besides which, the reason why he was banished was because he created Dark Elf and augmented Zero's original body to become the horrific Omega, as well as instigated the Elf Wars. That shows that he knows quite a LOT about Reploids.
::::as for Axl, it was indeed DNA. in fact, Model A, whose personality (as well as his abilities and the form that Grey/Ashe take on when Megamerging with Model A) is clearly Based off of Axl, and would have easily been labeled as a reincarnation of Axl if Master Albert didn't say that it was actually "Model Albert". Heck, after beating Buckfire in the game, he explicitly mentions that he absorbed Buckfire's DNA, which would allow Grey/ashe to transform and utilize his abilities at will.
::::It also mentioned that Mew possessed the DNA of all Pokémon, though (and anyways, just saying that it "possesses the Genetic code for "pokémon" pretty much implies ALL Pokemon.). And that's what I was saying about Transform the whole time. I mean, Ancestors have to have the DNA of ALL Pokémon to actually be labeled as an Ancestor of all pokémon.
::::As for the Arceus entry, the way Pearl's Pokedex entry was worded made it seem as though it Shaped the universe as soon as it was born. And anyways, the Origin Myth implied that Arceus was the creator of the universe, whileas Pearl's Dex entry stated that it merely shaped it.
::::How can a god lose arms? I mean, Did Ares become one-armed? No, he didn't, and he has fought several wars where something like Decapitation or losing some part of limbs can be considered inevitable, esp. during his time.
::::Lets see, because the Origin thing mentioned that Dialga and Palkia are two halves of Arceus, and, if they were truly two halves of the same being, then having them both in your party would gain you a new arceus. but it doesn't.
::::Let's see, because only the Crime syndicates, the Hero/ine, and in one case, a BF leader, was able to capture legendaries. Also, in the Anime, the only time that the legendaries actually CAUSED a natural imbalance was in "Pokemon 2000", which even THEN, it was hinted that it was actually caused by territorial disputes rather than because it was captured in and of itself. most of the other movies and anime related things that featured legendaries didn't have the legendaries causing all Hades to break loose right when they were captured. Besides, as common in many mythos, A god simply cannot be captured by Mortals.
::::Because, if they didn't HAVE DNA, then Mew and Ditto CAN'T transform, since the move Transform requires the Genetic Code of a pokémon. Besides, that was directed at the guy who said that those who evolve via trades and items can't be related to Mew.
::::No, it's in game Mythology. The Origin story is nothing more than one big myth.
::::And yet it's constantly implied that Giratina is listed among Dialga and Palkia.
::::Anyways, that's all for now. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 11:25, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
::'''Ditto''': Your logic was that, because it can use Transform, it must be the ancestor. Either this implies that Ditto is also the ancestor (a contradiction), or you need to not make such claims. Its inherently self-contradictory.
::While Ditto's profile ''does'' sometimes say that it '''copies''' (not already possesses) the opponent's genetic code, it also says that it is "Capable of reorganizing its cells to transform into an exact duplicate of its enemy. It is usually a shapeless blob.", and that it can transform to resemble a rock. It is explicitly clear from the Pokedex entries, the description of Transform, and how Ditto is presented in the series, that it is merely ''reshaping it's '''own''' genetic code to '''resemble''' something else''. Because, as we all know, ROCK's DON'T HAVE DNA.
::The description of Transform, and how Ditto uses it, does ''not'' require that the opponent has DNA, only that Ditto does. ''Please keep this in mind''.
::The definition of "machine" does not require that something be purely inorganic in nature, and neither of the quotes you provided really even claims anything near that. Weil's quote, in that case, is emotional, and almost certainly pointing out his view that Reploid's are inferior and by nature servants of humans. This is the view used by ''all'' the villains in the Zero series, and is actually a ''huge'' part of the conflict. Play the games again.
::'''Axl''': No, it's not DNA. It's never said to be DNA. It's said to be a special ability of his, to transform his body. Model A, while designed to be a callback to Axl, is NOT Axl. However, I grant you that the Shittenou are said to have been derived from X's DNA. As Reploids are ''never'' said to be completely mechanical, and DNA is only mentioned as belonging to X and the Shittenou (notice that in ZX, Reploids and organics ''have been combined anyway'' - play the game again), it doesn't support your claim that something purely mechanical or programmed can still have DNA.
::'''Ancestor'': No, it says that some scientists ''claim'' that based on its abilities. '''You need to get that through your head''', and stop claiming that the Pokedex outright claims these things. You should also learn that your concept of "ancestry" is completely, utterly flawed, with no basis in any kind of genetics, and absolutely ridiculous. I'm sorry to be so harsh, but it's outright folly. That's NOT how an ancestor would be determined.
::'''Pearl''': You are again twisting or inserting things into the Pokedex that are not there in order to fit your views.
::'''Arms''': Hephaestus. Hercules. Pangu. Ymir. Odin. Please, think before spouting - gods are ''very'' prone to lose parts of their bodies.
::'''Halves''': First off, it doesn't. It claims they are two parts of Arceus. There is ''no basis'' in science ''or'' mythology for what you claim - Pangu and Ymir don't suddenly come back just because all the pieces are there. Two halves of an apple don't rejoin to a full apple just because they are there.
::'''Capture''': Pokemon 2000, in which the sea itself sprung forth, Pokemon the Movie, in which the world almost drowned, Pokemon 3, in which UNOWN nearly crystallized the earth, Pokemon 4Ever, in which messing with Celebi caused the forest to become a rampaging monster, Jirachi Wishmaker, in which messing with Jirachi caused the earth to come alive as a rampaging monster, Rise of Darkrai, in which Dialga and Palkia being disturbed nearly rent apart time and space...nearly every movie follows this format. Don't be so dense. Why would the world ''immediately'' come apart, anyway? If you removed the moon, it would still take some time for the seas to destabilize. As for your assertion that gods cannot be captured - you clearly have no knowledge of mythology. Such a thing is rife throughout Norse, Greek, Roman, Chinese, Japanese, Native American, African....nearly every mythology has such a thing happen. Only Abrahamic religions, where the ''sole'' God has absolute power and absolute perfection, has a deity invulnerable to human effort.
::'''New Pokemon''': First off, I didn't say all new Pokemon didn't have DNA, only that some of these included Pokemon who are explicitly said to be purely artificial. Second off, ''you really need to actually look stuff up before claiming things'' - your claims about, well, damn near everything in this discussion have almost no basis in what the game's have actually said. Transform requires the USER's DNA to be changed to cause the USER to resemble the opponent. There is no intake of DNA, and it would be ridiculous to claim that Ditto already has a databank of all DNA (remember, it can turn into Ash - is Ditto Ash's ancestor?)
::...it would be mythology (a story which explains the origin of the world) AND science (an experimentally fact-checked story which explains an empirical truth). Mythology is ''not'' equivalent to "lies and untruths".
::'''Giratina''': ...um, yeah. Which is why I explained that it can't represent something ruled by one of the others.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 22:37, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
:::As I said in my previous post, I wasn't implying that Ditto is the ANCESTOR (I only brought it into the picture because it's the only pokémon aside from Mew to learn Transform. Did I SAY that Ditto was the ancestor of all pokemon? no, I didn't.).
:::And that's why I differentiated between Mew and Ditto, see, Ditto needed to copy the DNA, yet it is hinted repeatedly even in DP that Mew's DNA contains all of Pokemon (more than just moves, also stats and typings to a certain extent [I.E. Transform]. Heck, it can even utilize Judgement if it wanted to (Not by move tutor's of course, but definitely via Metronome.). That's what makes Mew the ancestor. Besides, there's more to being an ancestor than just being there first. You must ALSO be genetically related. I'm not going into the DP thing since you're obviously missing the idea.
:::Ok, I'l agree with the Norse gods (though to be fair, it wasn't caused by Mortals), but Hercules was a half god, meaning, he can still be mutilated significantly by mortals with visible scarring.
:::Ok, I already covered Pokemon 2000, and the Unown weren't TRUE Legendary Pokemon. Also, The only thing caused by the capture of Celebi was the forest pokemon being POed, that Mecha didn't count since Iron Masked marauder made that mech. All Celebi did was just act as the core. Heck, Ask Blackjack Palazzo if you don't believe me, since she also mentioned that as well. I'll acknowledge Jirachi, though. As for the Rise of Darkrai, Humans weren't even responsible for Dialga and Palkia fighting, they just met when they ended up in a bad mood. Also, Mewtwo tried to do those actions to try and earn the right to exist (though most of that was eliminated from the Dub, sadly.). As for what you stated, if gods CAN be captured by mere mortals, EXPLAIN why Pirithous couldn't even capture Persephone without having his own butt stuck on a bench for all of eternity?! Heck, name one story where Zeus or any of the PURE gods were captured by mere mortals and forced to do their bidding by the Mortals command. Also, just FYI, I just mastered AP Latin, so DON'T say I'm not knowledgeable in Mythology in the Graeco-roman kind at least.
:::And for the last time, I didn't IMPLY nor state that Ditto even HAD a databank of DNA, that attribute belongs to Mew, and Mew alone.
:::Sheesh, sometimes you guys are impossible.[[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 23:00, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
::::It doesn't matter whether you explicitly say that Ditto is the ancestor - you're reasoning relies on claiming that the ability to use Transform is an indicator of having the DNA, and being the ancestor. Just by looking at Ditto, that's false. Being snarky about it doesn't change the fact that you're wrong.
::::Clefairy also has metronome, so Metronome cannot be an indicator of being the ancestor. To be the ancestor of all Pokemon, all Pokemon must be your descendants. Dialga and Palkia are clearly and explicitly descendants of Arceus only, unless Mew is Arceus' ancestor, which would be contradictory to what we are told. Again, you are confusing something the game frequently reiterates is a rumor, with what the game puts forth as exposition.
::::...what the hell do you mean "to be fair"? I never claimed that mortals caused the gods to lose body parts, and its completely irrelevant to discussion. As for Hercules, he became a full god after his original death.
::::....okay, I'm just going to post back your original post on this sub-topic, because you seem to have a bad memory:
:::''"and anyways, the legends also hinted that Legendaries can't be captured by mere mortals, yet most of the crime syndicates, the Pyramid King and even the protagonist has been wielding these pokemon '''as if they were nothing.'''"''
::::Mewtwo, the only Pokemon I can think of that was actually wielded by a "crime syndicate", caused those actions because it was PO'd about ''being used by humans''.
::::As far as I can tell, your implication with that passage was that Legendaries weren't the god-like beings that the legends indicated - ''yet their actions, even in The Rise of Darkrai, explicitly demonstrates that they are''. Whether a human actively screws with them or not, they ''can and will'' rip the world apart if they're in a bad mood. I'm also unaware of the legends implying that it's impossible to capture them - only that it's impossible to safely enslave them.
::::Wow...you pass high school latin, and you deem it logical to choose ''one'' example from ''one'' mythology to claim that ''all'' mortals in ''all'' mythology will never have the upper hand against ''any'' god? I'm definitely out of my league here!
::::Some other examples:
:::::''...Zeus then ordered Hades to chain Sisyphus in Tartarus. Sisyphus slyly asked Thanatos to try the chains to show how they worked. When Thanatos did so, Sisyphus secured them and threatened Hades. This caused an uproar, and no human could die until Ares (who was annoyed that his battles had lost their fun because his opponents would not die) intervened, freeing Thanatos and sending Sisyphus to Tartarus.''
:::::''Tantalus offered up his son, Pelops, as a sacrifice to the gods. He cut Pelops up, boiled him, and served him up as food for the gods. The gods were said to be aware of his plan for their feast, so they didn't touch the offering; only Demeter, distraught by the loss of her daughter, Persephone, "did not realize what it was" and ate part of the boy's shoulder.''
::::Yes, those who mess with the gods get it in the end - but isn't this ''exactly'' what happens to those who mess with the Legendary Pokemon? Even innocent play with pseudo-legendaries like Unown can endanger the world.
::::...I don't know how I can make this more plain:
:::::'''''You claimed that Mew's ability to use Transform meant it had to be the ancestor, and brought up Ditto as a "evidence" for your interpretation of how Transform worked.''''' Now, when confronted with this, you claim that the ability to use Transform does not imply something is the ancestor. '''''Make up your mind'''''.
:::::Actually, to be fair, you don't actually bring up this glaring inconsistency. You just try to avoid the contradiction, and try to "eat your cake and have it too."

To summarize:
#Mythology, as portrayed in the series, is quite reliable.
#Arceus' mythology is neither self-contradictory, nor unique among real-world mythology.
#The claim about Mew having the DNA of all Pokemon is not only contradictory to the explicit facts about artificial Pokemon such as Porygon, but never even claimed as fact, only as a rumor.
#Transform, as described in-game and as demonstrated by Ditto, does ''not'' require a databank of all DNA. It merely requires the ability to change shape, or to replicate another's DNA.
#Metronome, as described in-game and as demonstrated by Clefairy, also does not require a databank of all DNA.
#Claiming that Mew is the ancestor of all Pokemon is inherently contradictory to the stated claims about Arceus, Dialga, Palkia, Mesprit, Axelf, Uxie, and Heatran.
#Even before considering the contradictions in the total mythology, '''''The idea that having a copy of all of a group's DNA implies you are their ancestor is inherently ridiculous and contradictory. It is the opposite of how genetics and inheritance actually works, even on the most basic level. It can be immediately refuted by a thought-examination of a child and his two, un-related parents.'''''

[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 08:08, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Umm... Hello. May I be permitted to submit my own wild abstractions?(*looks around*) Thank you. Well, what if Arceus began by creating the Universe and then created Mew as a template for all Pokémon who then flew off and was disregarded whilst Arceus was busy creating the 'gods' of Time and Space... Or something...[[User:Monblazon|Monblazon]] 21:15, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
::That would work. Mew could conceivably be the progenitor or ancestor of ''most'' Pokemon, but not all.
::Also, I'm sorry, it turns out Axl's Copy Shot ''does'' use DNA Cores, so I apologize for being wrong about that bit.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 07:26, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
:::Thank you! I am good at filling in inconsistencies in canon like that...[[User:Monblazon|Monblazon]] 18:53, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
::::Do we call this the creation paradox? '''[[User:Optimatum|<sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Optimatum|Talk]]|[[User:Optimatum/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''10:38 3 Sep 2008'''''
:::::I'm not sure what you're referring to, as the only creation paradox I know of would require Mew to have travelled through time and created Arceus, which is in contradiction to what we've been given ("The Original One breathed alone"), as well as not based in any ability of Mew's that we know of. Could you explain what you mean?[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 19:33, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
::::::That would be a Temporal Paradox. The actual Paradox here is that since Mew is supposed to be the ancestor of ALL Pokémon, and Arceus is a Pokémon, the original, then one must contradict the other - which is the meaning of the word paradox. More or less...[[User:Monblazon|Monblazon]] 19:48, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
== STAB ==

The movesets seem to automatically assume Arceus is of the Fighting Type. I am unfamiliar with how this is coded, and so don't know how to fix it - is there anyone who can fix it?[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 06:00, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
:Don't you mean Dragon-type? --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 06:03, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
::Everything on the page assumes that Arceus is a randomly-generated type. It's a bit of code TTE added.--[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 06:42, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
:::Arceus is a {{type2|{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|0=???|1=Normal|2=Fighting|3=Flying|4=Poison|5=Ground|6=Rock|7=Bug|8=Ghost|9=Steel|10=Fire|11=Water|12=Grass|13=Electric|14=Psychic|15=Ice|16=Dragon|17=Dark}}}}... everyone knows that.
:::Yeah. My random code that changes depending on the time that the page is last loaded to cache. Takes the Unix time (seconds since 1/1/1970) and then does a modulo division by 18, assigning one of the eighteen forms of Arceus to each remainder. Unown does a similar thing, but you only notice it in the evoboxes. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 07:04, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

== Empty ==

There is no content in the "In the anime", "In the manga" and "In the TCG". So why not somebody delete it?
[[User:FireHazard|FireHazard]] 03:07, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
:So when it comes out we can put it there.All pages fit a designated template[[User:Darth Cookie Monster|DCM]]

== Moves ==
why is the movelist not where its supposed to be????
or is it just my computer????[[User:Dion24|Dion24]] 11:03, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

:It looks fine to me. What problem are you seeing? ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 17:49, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

::The level up nd TM learnsets appear at the top of the page over all the writing [[User:Dion24|Dion24]] 07:53, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

that happened to me, and I realized that happened because I browsed all of the arceus formes or most of them.--[[User:Nobody777|Nobody777]] 13:15, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
:Everything on the page goes wired after you press show sprites and the movelist and everything else goes weird, and this goes for all pages. It might only be my computer, but it should be changed to suit all. --[[User:Wowy|Wowy]] 00:51, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
::I don't understand... What browser are you using? '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 07:01, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Talk:Arceus (Pokémon)/Archive 1

2008-09-02T18:54:22Z

Monblazon:

Um, {{u|TTEchidna}}, you put down that Arseus can become an ???-type Pokémon by holding a ??? Plate. Where'd you get that from?--[[User:Pokencyclopedia|Pokencyclopedia]] 21:35, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Man u have got to be kidding me Arceus catch rate should not be 3. I used my Action replay to get the item 4 arceus then i went and caought it on my 5th dusk ball. My friend caought it on him 1st ultra ball. Another friend i gave the item 2 caught it on his 2nd qiuck ball.
:Man, you have to be kidding me, you can't even spell the word "you" right. Arceus's catch rate is 3. If you'll notice, those balls multiply the catch rate formula by quite a bit, which greatly increases the chance to be caught. Plus, it's all on luck, I've had Magikarp break out of balls before. --'''[[User:TTEchidna|T]][[User talk:TTEchidna|T]][[wp:Echidna|Echidna]]''' 22:36, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

I added an alternative origin to Arceus's name that I found on: http://www.serebiiforums.com/showthread.php?t=286767.[[User:Draconium|Draconium]] 23:42, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

==Is there a point...==
Is there a point of having a table for each of the plates when it is attached to Arceus?
We could just have Arceus without a plate, and then have each title with an image and a sentence saying what type Arceus changes to.
For Example:

==Type effectiveness==
===No plate equipped===
{{DP type effectiveness|
type1=normal|
Normal= 100 |
Fighting=200 |
Flying= 100 |
Poison= 100 |
Ground= 100 |
Rock= 100 |
Bug= 100 |
Ghost= 0 |
Steel= 100 |

Fire= 100 |
Water= 100 |
Grass= 100 |
Electric=100 |
Psychic= 100 |
Ice= 100 |
Dragon= 100 |
Dark= 100 }}
[[Image:Spr 4d 493-Fire.png|thumb|right|Sprite for {{type2|Fire}} Arceus]]
===With Flame Plate===
When the Flame Plate is attached to Arceus, it becomes a Fire type.

etc... [[User:Tesh|Tesh]] 23:06, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

==Picture==
I have this picture:

[[Image:Arceus.PNG]]

I did not draw it. I want to use it on the page. It is much better than trying to stare at a tiny sprite. --[[User:Stinkoman|Stinkoman]] 15:08, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

:Better than a sprite for sure, but it'd be nice if we could find one without such bad compression artifacts. [[User:Invisible Shiny Bulbasaur|Invisible Shiny Bulbasaur]] 22:30, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
::I don't think we should really be using an unofficial image for the page. What would be nice is if somebody could get a nice, high-quality (as in NOT a photo of the monitor) screenshot of ARceus from PBR.--[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 01:22, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
:::You mean hack an Arceus and copy it into PBR?
[[Image:Psychic-attack.png|Psychic]][[Image:Ani475MS.gif]] '''[[User:Optimus35|Agent]] [[Gallade (Pokémon)|448]][[User talk:Optimus35|Talk]] | [[User:Optimus35/Diamond&Pearl|DP]]''' [[Image:Fighting-attack.png|Fighting]] 11:46, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

== Sprites? ==

Should we include separate sprite templates for all of the forms, or just do it for one? I know that Unown and Castform, among others, would serve the same problem. '''[[User:TTEchidna|T]][[User talk:TTEchidna|T]][[wp:Echidna|Echidna]]''' 22:10, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

== Art?! ==

I'd like to know the source of Arceus' picture. Mainly because it hasn't been revealed yet. TinaTheKirlia 02:44, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
:It's a piece of fanart. --[[User:DarkfireTaimatsu|DarkfireTaimatsu]] 02:47, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
::That's what I thought, although there was an edit that said "Official Art" or something and it was rather confusing. TinaTheKirlia 16:29, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
I think we should replace that art with a sprite. It seems inaccurate... Mariocaper 19:19, 20 September 2007

Yeah, and we could enlarge the size of the sprite so it won't be that tiny anymore, right? [[Image:Psychic-attack.png|Psychic]]http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/sprites/dpiconani/dpiconani475.gif '''[[User:Optimus35|Optimus35]][[User talk:Optimus35|Talk]] | [[User:Optimus35/Diamond&Pearl|DP]]''' [[Image:Fighting-attack.png|Fighting]] 06:45, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
:Enlarged sprites look terrible. --[[User:DarkfireTaimatsu|DarkfireTaimatsu]] 06:49, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
::Couldn't we get a PBR screenshot? And I mean a screenshot, not someone pointing their camera at a television? (We need that for Rosy and Sashay, too...)--[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 07:13, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
::I can't, my FRAPS only works on full screen games like Maple Story...I think we could take the Arceus photo, enlarge it and sharpen it a little, then put it back on bulba. The only problem with this is that the sprite would be oversize...
:::I hope that you have permission to use that piece of fan art. --[[Special:Contributions/Kenji-girl|☆]][[Tracey Sketchit|ケンジ]][[User:Kenji-girl|ガール]] 21:27, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
::::I've got five PBR shots. They're all in my [[User:Optimus35/Sandbox|sandbox]]. Click on the links under 'Arceus'. Tell me which one looks best on my talk page and I'll upload it onto Bulbagarden Archives...[[Image:Ani475MS.gif]] '''[[User:Optimus35|Agent]] [[User:Optimus35/Mission|4]][[User:Optimus35/Emerald|4]][[Gallade (Pokémon)|8]][[User talk:Optimus35|δ]] | [[User:Optimus35/Diamond&Pearl|DP]]''' | [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?limit=50&title=Special%3AContributions&contribs=user&target=Optimus35&namespace=0&year=&month=-1 ☆][[Image:Ani282MS.gif]] 09:01, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Change the pic!
[[User:Crystallucario|Crystallucario]] 14:54, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
:The reason why we're not changing it is because it's nicely done fanart, and it's more easier to look at this instead of a sprite.
:Otherwise it'd be absolute hell for me to draw Arceus. Still is, but certainly more easier than looking at a sprite. :p [[User:Tina|Tina]] [[Special:Contributions/Tina|δ]][[User talk:Tina|♫]] 16:40, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
hmmm maybe ok whatever...
[[User:Crystallucario|CrystalLucario 12:23, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
::...except, do we have permission to use the image? The image page doesn't seem to claim it at all, so I'm going to go ahead and guess that we're doing something illegal or at least unethical here. Seriously, why can't we just use a PBR shot?[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 00:58, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
:::Since when was pokemon ever ethical? Think about it, the aim of the game is to run away from home at 10 years old (good parenting skills mom) and after having abuse a poor little starly to the brink of death by slashing it over and over again with false swipe you throw something at it, only adding to the poor creature's pain and torture only to trap it inside a small, cramped chamber for the rest of its unnatural life whilst using it to abuse other pokemon. But anyways I digress, the point is the piece of fanart looks nice, is accurate and fits in perfectly with all the official pokemon artwork. Hell when I first visited the page I thought it WAS a piece of official artwork. A PBR snapshot would not be at all as effective as the fanart. So no, we ain't havin a PBR shot. [[User:Wikid|Wikid]] 16:20, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

::::No one is questioning the ethics of the series, just in using someone else's work without their consent. Besides, the face is drawn wrong. There should be more lines running across it. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 16:28, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Metronome ==

My Mew used Judgement through Metronome. Should I include something like this under "Trivia":

Although Nintendo is attempting to keep Arceus secret, it is possible for Arceus's signature move, {{m|Judgment}}, to be used through {{m|Metronome}}, thus potentially revealing the existence of Arceus to otherwise unaware fans.

--[[User:Shiny Noctowl|Shiny Noctowl]][[User talk:Shiny Noctowl|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Shiny Noctowl|Contribs]][[Image:Ani480MS.gif]] 20:33, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

i could draw arceus if that would help. i like drawing pokémon. [[talonclawz]] new comer!!!!!!!!!! [[Image:Ani444MS.gif‎]]

== Shishigami? ==

Should any mention of the Forest Spirit Shishigami from Miyazaki Hayao's Mononoke-Hime be mentioned in the article? Arceus seems to have a resemblance to Shishigami. In addition, on the illegal hacked Pokémon Diamond (Telefang Power), Shishigami appears on the front, despite not having anything to do with the game (that's the way those criminals work), and then in the real Pokémon Diamond, Arceus was added. Does anyone else think that some trivia should be added about this? ~Kumori Satosuke
:Outside of the whole quadrupedal thing, I don't think there's anything else that's official to suggest a connection. For example, Arceus seems to be nothing outside of a creator, while shishigami is given dominion over life and death.--[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 03:27, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
::Yes, I agree. There really isn't anything linking the two other than a vague (And I do mean VAGUE.) resemblance. --[[User:Dual|Dual]] 14:15, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

== ??? type sprite may prevent crash ==
Just a theory, but the programmers at Game Freak may have drawn and programmmed a ??? type Arceus to prevent game crashes. Anyone with a code patcher can figure out how to change a Pokémon's type. They might have figured that someone would tamper with Arceus's type, and if they changed it to a ??? type, and there was no sprite for it, the game would crash because it would try loading data that does not exist. That's my theory anyway. [[User:Fsilone|Fsilone]] 02:10, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
:That's really logical. figure that by yourself? But I still don't know if we should put that in the article.[[Image:Ani471MS.gif]][[User:Pokemaniac102|'''Poke''''''maniac''''''102''']][[Image:AniEggMS.gif]] 02:17, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

::im a little iffy on the grammer, but other than that i think its a fantastic theory and should be in the trivia section. excellent. now all i need to do is figure out how to do it myself in my game with the Action Replay... [[Image:Ani081MS.gif|35px]][[User:MAGNEDETH|MAGNEDETH]][[Image:Ani082MS.gif|35px]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|TALK]][[Image:Ani462MS.gif|35px]] 02:30, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

:::You can't - you need to edit the rom data - action replay only edits temporary and save data. Think so anyway. '''[[:User:Origamiguy|折り紙ガイ]] - [[:User_talk:Origamiguy|離す]][[:Special:Contributions/Origamiguy|貢献]]''' 15:37, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

I think I don't see anything grammatically wrong. I copied the words above and reworded it into sentences.[[Image:Ani471MS.gif]][[User:Pokemaniac102|'''Poke''''''maniac''''''102''']][[Image:AniEggMS.gif]] 02:34, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

:yea, im probibly wrong, im not joking when i say i failed english class......twice...with a 54..... [[Image:Ani081MS.gif|35px]][[User:MAGNEDETH|MAGNEDETH]][[Image:Ani082MS.gif|35px]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|TALK]][[Image:Ani462MS.gif|35px]] 03:42, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

what the heck is shishigami? is it a pokémon?(someone out there?) [[-talonclawz]] new comer!!!!! [[Image:212MS.gif]] 1:06, 5 April 2008

No. Wait a minute if you don't know that Errr...how new are you to Pokémon?[[User:Crystallucario|'''''Crystal''''']] [[User talk:Crystallucario|'''''Lucario''''']] 17:43, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

A shishigami is a Japanese god of death. [[User:LordKaien|LordKaien]] 14:51, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

== {{type2|???}} Sprite ==

[[Image:Question-Type Arceus Before.jpg|thumb|left|Before]][[Image:Question-Type Arceus After.jpg|thumb|right|After]]How long has the sprite of ???-type Arceus been pulling that vanishing act? Basically, the only time you can see the sprite is when the white background on PNG-format images is still visible, as seen in the Before shot. Once the white backgrounds vanish, the rest of the sprite should still be there. However, on ???-type Arceus, the sprite vanishes along with the background, as seen in the After shot. Is there a way to fix this?

(The shots in question come from an area of my own user page, specifically a [[Template:User Favorite Move|favorite move tag]] programmed for a ???-type move and {{m|Curse}} with the Arceus sprite in question for a laugh. The [[Template:User 2000|2000-edits in a month tag]] above it is also shown for comparison.) --[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 05:41, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

:Wow. That's weird that it just disappears! --[[Image:Spr 3e 059.gif|70px]][[Image:Spr 3e 132.gif]]'''[[User:Theryguy512|Theryguy]][[User:Theryguy512/Contribution Page|5]][[User:Theryguy512/Mission Page|1]][[User:Theryguy512/Sandbox|2]]''' [[Image:Trozeiani025.gif]] 11:59, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
I think I figured out the vanishing act. It's due to the filename. Many operating systems don't allow question marks in filenames, and it's probably due to those that caused the image to vanish. I went and uploaded an image to [[a:Image:Spr 4d 493-Unknown.png|Image:Spr 4d 493-Unknown.png]] on the archives, and that image works as it should! Every instance of the vanishing image has been changed to the one that doesn't vanish, so you won't be seeing vanishing ???-type Arceus again anytime soon. --[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 16:37, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

== Pic ==

Okay, I remember {{u|Urutapu}} saying something about a screenshot of Arceus from PBR. Well, I got a Wii ''and'' PBR for Christmas. And I have *cough*cheated*cough* four Arceuses. All I need now is a good-quality emulator that can screenshot my Wii with. Any suggestions?
--{{u|Stinkoman}}

Somehow theres a way of putting a SCART socket into your PC and running it through that. My mate's computer can do that but i think it had the socket when he bought it. [[Image:Ani258MS.gif]][[User:Origamiguy|OrigamiGuy]] Lieks [[Mudkip (Pokémon)|Mudkipz]][[Image:Ani258MS.gif]]

== Officially been revealed ==
Until this Pokemon has been officially revealed (by Nintendo or Coro Coro magazine) this page should be removed, because the only reason why there is proof of its existence is through a hacking or cheating device.
:WHAT! This page should be included on here. If it is in the Game, weather or not if it has been reaveled, it IS STILL IN THE GAME WITHOUT HAVING TO BE MADE{{Ani|493}}[[User:Darth Cookie Monster|'''C ''']]{{Ani|491}}[[User talk:Darth Cookie Monster|''' Is''']]{{Ani|426}}[[User:Darth Cookie Monster/My Story|'''for Cookie''']]{{Ani|473}}
::Yea, this page is about a Pokémon. In case you don't know (hopefully you do), this is a Pokémon encyclopedia. This page is like mandatory. --'''[[User:Theryguy512|Theryguy]][[User talk:Theryguy512|5]][[User:Theryguy512/Contribution Page|1]][[User:Theryguy512/Similarities|2]]''' 02:12, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
:::Exactly. We have pages for all Pokémon ''officially programmed into the games''. Would you come here before Deoxys was revealed and say "NUH UH THERE'S ONLY 201 IN HOENN DEOXYS IS A HAKKER ONLY POKEMAN." Arceus is official, they're just holding off on the official revelation. Besides... plenty of Pokémon from each generation were never revealed through CoroCoro or by Nintendo individually. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]][[Image:Ani155MS.gif|Fire echy]]''' 07:07, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

I may only be 10, but take it from me. Arceus is real. It is on pokemon.com's pokedex.[[User:DaPikanator56|DaPikanator56]] 18:47, 22 March 2008 (UTC){{u|DaPikanator56}}
:Well, actually, it's not on the PokéDex on [[Pokemon.com]], but yes, it is real. --'''[[User:Theryguy512|Theryguy]][[User talk:Theryguy512|5]][[User:Theryguy512/Contribution Page|1]][[User:Theryguy512/Similarities|2]]''' 13:17, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
::An example of what TTE said would be the Porygons. '''<sc>[[User:Optimus35|{{tt|Optimatum♏|Optimus35}}]]</sc>[[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|♊]]02:32 30 Mar 2008'''

Oh yeah! It and ummm... {{p|Shaymin}} I think aren't Theryguy.[[User:DaPikanator56|DaPikanator56]] 18:52, 30 March 2008 (UTC){{u|DaPikanator56}}
:Shaymin has been acknowledged by official Japanese sources. And to address the original point, we are not Wikipedia. Everyone knows that Arceus is real, so this page is a necessity. Hell, we have articles for a lot of glitch Pokémon so a real one definately passes. --[[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] [[User talk:Fabu-Vinny|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Fabu-Vinny|C]]-[[User:Fabu-Vinny/Sandbox|S]] 23:52, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

True...Oh, and by the way, in the summer I will shorten my visits here, but this place rules! It ain't demented like Chuckie Cheese's.
:) ^-^[[User:DaPikanator56|DaPikanator56]] 22:31, 3 April 2008 (UTC)DaPikanator56

==Picture==

I found this picture interesting, but low quality. [http://www.pokebeach.com/news/0507/arceus.jpg its on www.pokebeach.com] --[[User:Britannia's Blade|Britannia's Blade]] 21:25, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
:Good find, but it's already linked from the article [[Arceus (Pokémon)#External links|right here]]. --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 23:38, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

------------
I also just found this one [http://www.arkeis.com/images/pokemonfactory/arceus.png ****] Fan art of course but very serious looking, Lots more like it [http://www.arkeis.com/legendaries.htm here] what do you think? --[[User:Britannia's Blade|Britannia's Blade]] 18:47, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
:I don't see how fanart is very notable to put up here.. >_> [[User:Tina|Tina]] [[Special:Contributions/Tina|δ]][[User talk:Tina|♫]] 19:06, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
::The one we have right now will do us until Arcy is revealed next year. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 20:37, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
:::What about this one? - [http://www.pokebeach.com/news/0507/arceus2.jpg (1)] '''[[:User:Origamiguy|折り紙ガイ]] - [[:User_talk:Origamiguy|離す]][[:Special:Contributions/Origamiguy|貢献]]''' 15:45, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
::::-Gasp- Why not that one! Ooo, take it! TAKE IT!!! '''[[User:Optimus35|<sc>Optimatum</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''13:53 2 May 2008'''''
TTE, Arceus isn't going 2 be revealed 4 two years yet. [[User:LordKaien|LordKaien]] 14:53, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

==Arceus and Giratina==
Aren't Arceus and Giratina sort of opposites of each other because Arceus is God and Giratina is the devil sort of, I mean Arceus didn't create Giratina so that means they were the two entities before time started. [[User:Big Johnno|Pokémon Master]] 17:46 15 May 2008
:Maybe you're right, but i think that Giratina is part of the Dragon Trio. [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 23:37, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
::Giratina is the BOSS! It saved the two other Pokamon! Posted by the '''[[User:Optimus35|<sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''01:04 17 May 2008'''''
:Hold on, there's no reason to get angry. Why can't we just WAIT until Arceus is officially revealed? Isn't that BETTER than argueing? [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 23:37, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

In my eyes it would be

Dialga + Palkia = Rivals (Time VS Space)

Giratina + Arceus = Rivals (God VS Darkness?)

So yeah, regardless of the fact Giratina is part of the Dragon Trio.
(''Thinking about it, those four are exactly the same as my characters |: Lily = Controls Time. Darkness = Controls Space. Akito = Controls Death. Rose = Controls Life/Is a sort-of God. But anyway, my characters are irrelevant too this xD'') [[User:Takoto|Takoto タコト]]| サソデイ = 愛 14:37, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
:So, Arceus is God/JesusHoly Spirit, and Giratina is Satan? O.O It's Da '''[[User:Optimus35|<sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''06:03 26 May 2008'''''
::Arceus is Arceus. Giratina is Giratina. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 07:02, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
:::Meh, that's the Atheist way of seeing it. Hey, wait, am I about to be stone for being anti-atheist? Damn. It's Da '''[[User:Optimus35|<sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''07:13 26 May 2008'''''
::::I didn't say Giratina was Satan, i simply said he was...darkness. [[User:Takoto|Takoto タコト]]| サソデイ = 愛 02:05, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
My question is, how do you KNOW Giratina is bad, or if Arceus is even good? How do you KNOW Giratina wasn't created by Arceus? You don't. Besides, Neither ot them are from Christianity, and U know what? I'm a devout Christian and I don't care if Arceus wasn't based off of my God. [[User:LordKaien|LordKaien]] 14:56, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
:Does anybody want to see it this way, "WE SHOULD ALL JUST WAIT"? [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 22:06, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
::I don't think Giratina is evil. You don't have too be evil/whatever to control darkness/whatever Giratina controls. I do not think Giratina is evil! [[User:Takoto|Takoto タコト]]| サソデイ = 愛 22:22, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
:Is this text INVISIBLE? WE SHOULD ALL JUST WAIT! [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 00:28, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
::Thank you, good people of bulbapedia, for waiting. [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 00:57, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

== More sprites ==

Ok, so we have all the type sprites for Arceus and it's shiny sprite, but we don't have shiny forms for Arceus' other types. Could someone please tell me if it's possible to get those sprites and if so get them for us? [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 12:08, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
:If i could, i would, but i can't, so i can't help you. I'm not even 100% sure Arceus's other-type sprites HAVE shiny versions of them :| [[User:Takoto|Takoto タコト]]| サソデイ = 愛 14:27, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
::They do. And a simple method is to color the sprites the right color. The white portion of the body is the only part which remains constant throughout the non-shiny forms. and when it becomes shiny, the rings are the same color as those of the non-shiny ones. The only thing that differs between non-shiny and shiny is the white portion, which turns yellow. It's Da '''[[User:Optimus35|<sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''06:01 26 May 2008'''''
:So... could you do that for us as a favor? [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 22:02, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
::I might have those sprites on my computer somewhere. Want me to upload them? [[User:Yinyang1195|Yin]][[User talk:Yinyang1195|Yang]] 20:05, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
:Why don't you recolor them...it will be easy.--[[User:Tavisource|☆Tavis]][[User talk:Tavisource|ource]] 00:49, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
::I dont no how... [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 00:54, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
:Hmm...I would do it, but I'm very busy right now, you could go ask hcfx2 for help, he's great at recoloration.--[[User:Tavisource|☆Tavis]][[User talk:Tavisource|ource]] 00:57, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
:Nevermind, i found them on "a:Catagory:Arceus". But thanks :) [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 01:11, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

== Metronome and Judgement ==

If a player knows nothing about Arceus, how would they know that Judgement is its signature attack? Even if it is used by a Pokémon using Metronome. So could Metronome really spoil the surprise? ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 02:50, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
:Not really. ^^; Metronome can do ANYTHING. Even Explosion so...'''[[User:Optimus35|It's the <sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''02:54 4 Jun 2008'''''
::Well, if they were like "Ooh, what learns that?!" and can't find anyone, they'll suspect it to be some crazy legendary not yet shown. And have lived under a rock since EVERYONE KNOWS OF ARCEUS. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 03:03, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
:::Hmm, then Singapore must be under a rock. Only two people I know know what's Arceus, that includes me. '''[[User:Optimus35|It's the <sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''03:12 4 Jun 2008'''''
::::Or this is nintendo's way of teasing us. kinda like,
Player:"What pokémon learns this?"
Nintendo:"Wait and see"
Player:"You suck."[[User:LordKaien|LordKaien]] 12:39, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

I only ask because of this quote in the trivia:

"''Although Nintendo is attempting to keep Arceus secret, it is possible for Arceus's signature move, Judgment, to be used through Metronome, thus potentially revealing the existence of Arceus to otherwise unaware fans.''"

Plus, Nintendo ''has'' to know that the majority of their fanbase uses the internet. Every Pokémon website except the "official" ones have info on Arceus. A lot of them even before the games were released globally. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 15:57, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
:The majority of the fanbase are kids who don't necessarily visit fansites. --[[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] |[[User talk:Fabu-Vinny|Talk Page]]| 16:02, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
::No ([[User:MathijsP|MathijsP]] 16:03, 4 June 2008 (UTC))
:::Yes. --[[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] |[[User talk:Fabu-Vinny|Talk Page]]| 16:04, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
::::No ([[User:MathijsP|MathijsP]] 16:05, 4 June 2008 (UTC))

:::::I would have to disagree with that statement. I believe that most fans may have been kids at the beginning when Pokémon first came out, but now have grown as the series has. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 16:18, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

A similar thing happened to me when I was playing PBR. I ordered my Togepi to use Metronome and out came Judgment. I wondered what Pokémon used this move until I checked this site and I found Arceus. I didn't even know about its existence AT ALL when Metronome was used that one year ago... {{ani|385}}[[User:BlueJirachi|BlueJirachi]] 18:01, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

== Arceus's pattern in the anime? ==

I didn't get a second look (mainly because I deleted the episode from my DVR), but I heard in the episode "Journey to the Unknown!" that Saturn was holding a cube with Arceus's pattern on it... [[User:ShinyRayquaza|ShinyRayquaza]] 19:35, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

== Arceus + Sky Plate? ==

If you attach a Sky Plate to Arceus, wouldn't that make it become the first pure Flying-type Pokémon? [[User:Wynautluvr|Wynautluvr]] 16:53, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

:It is the first "permanent" pure Flying-type. The Porygon line can become Flying-types with their Conversion moves, and Kecleon can with its Color Change Ability. These Pokémon, however, revert back to Normal when the battle is over. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 18:56, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

::It's not permanent, in that you can change the plate and it loses the pure-flying status... '''[[:User:Origamiguy|Lord]] of [[:User_talk:Origamiguy|Ori]][[Special:Contributions/Origamiguy|gami]]''' 15:16, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
:::It's permanent in that it doesn't go away just because the battle ends. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 21:46, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
::::No its not. Its only a permanent flying type if its natural type (i.e. no plate) is flying. You might as well say its also the first permamnent ??? type since it can become that (potentially) too.[[User:Wikid|Wikid]] 16:43, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

:::::If you never remove the plate, then it's permanent. Plus, you can't obtain a ???-type Arceus in-game in any normal fashion. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 16:45, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

:::::: Says you. firstly, the word permanent implies that the typing can never be changed. If you unequip the plate Arceus goes back to normal therefore it's not permanent. At best I would say its semi-permament. Secondly, there might a ??? plate given out at an event or found somewhere in platinum like Glacidia's flower. ??? forme arceus might be the result when you enter the torn world with arceus. It might even be what Arceus looks like when it is a shadow pokemon as there might be a new game coming out to do with shadow pokemon and DPP might be the first generation where you can trade shadow pokemon over. Therefore if you can trade it as shadow poke between DP and platinum then there is a way to get an ??? forme Arceus in a normal fashion.[[User:Wikid|Wikid]] 17:21, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Fine. "Semi-permanent". ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 17:24, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== The ??? Plate ==

The ??? Plate exists, It is named mysterious plate by CodeJunkies, It may also be encountered in the underground as a Malfunction, people got this (like my brother) and attached it to ARCEUS, making the ??? type, no weaknesses are found on this type--[[User:M.vit|M.vit]] 00:10, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
:Believe me, people code-spelunk like there's no tomorrow...there isn't such thing.--[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 00:10, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

can M.vit at least tell how did his brother encounter such a plate, and how does it function with other Pokémon?and what happens to a Pokémon who knows the move [[curse]]

can somebody edit this article . It says that Arceus creted the Pokémon Universe,''Dragon trio'' and lake trio. Till now the dragon trio isn't officially confirmed. so whether I or somebody else should change the Dragon trio to the time-space duo: Dialga and Palkia.--[[User:Nobody777|Nobody777]] 13:56, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

well, seems that nobody is out of topic, BTW, i have seem to find this code in Code Junkies here it is
Mysterious Plate x999
94000130 fcff0000
b21c4d28 00000000
b0000004 00000000
00000890 03e70133
d2000000 00000000--[[User:M.vit|M.vit]] 16:55, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

:The plates all have different names on CodeJunkies which are the translated Japenese names. I believe the Mysterious Plate is actually the Mind Plate. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 17:13, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
::Your right, it is the mind plate. '''{{Colored link|:User:Origamiguy|ff8000|Lord}} of {{Colored link|:User_talk:Origamiguy|ff8000|Ori}}{{Colored link|Special:Contributions/Origamiguy|ff8000|gami}}''' 16:45, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

==type change==

Keckleons ability color change changes its type according to the move done by the opponent so if ???-type arceus used judjement, will it change its type? can anyone experiment?--[[User:Nobody777|Nobody777]] 13:21, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

:The fact that you can't get a ??? plate makes it difficult to say. I have no idea what would happen...♪♪[[User:ShinyPachirisu|Shiny]] [[User Talk:ShinyPachirisu|Pachirisu]] :) ♪♪ 13:23, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

::???-type moves have been hacked and have no effect. So Kecleon would probably be unaffected. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 13:39, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
:::Actually, they do have an effect... they just deal minimal damage. Lemme see what it does in Gen III later on... '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 23:41, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Pal Park]] ==

Will it really freeze the game when you put Arceus infront of the party and bla bla bla to the Pal Park?
[[User:Palkia38|Palkia38]] 03:48, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

== Now... ==

Isn't what I did so freaking cool? I mean, look at it. And the best thing is that it is totally dependent on the ''exact second'' that you save/access the page. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 07:32, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
:A fine template, indeed. Would it be useful to use something like this to generate random examples in paragraphs?
:P.S.: What you did (a calculation based on a clock) is even a good idea for a new ability or move in the game that picks a random type. --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 07:53, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
::Now if we only had the backsprites for the various forms...--[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 22:49, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
:::Two clock-based calculations would make it even more random. Watch this. {{#expr: ({{#time: U}} div {{#time: s}}) mod 9002}} {{#ifexpr: (({{#time: U}} div {{#time: s}}) mod 9002) > 9000|<big>'''← IT'S OVER 9000!!!'''</big>}}
:::As for random examples... hmm... Well, what are you thinking?
:::And I wish for the backsprites, too... And the minisprite, does it change with Arceus? '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 22:58, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

==Arceus in My Pokémon Ranch==
For a fact,someone in the German forum BisaBoard got Arceus as one of the daily Pokémon!This person was -like me- totally dumbfounded and opened that thread to know more about this phenomena.
I've asked some expert in the same message board if this would be really possible.To my surprise,he said that he checked the programme code and Arceus is really included!I think this MUST be put into the Trivia section.[[User:Uxie legend|Uxie legend]]

:How does one check the program code of a Wii Ware title? And of course Arceus would be there, it can be deposited just like any other Pokémon. Plus, I ''doubt'' that Hayley will trade you an Arceus... ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 16:02, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

::Might be wrong, but I believe there is a set list of Pokémon Hayley will only trade off, which was found and released in dr_nza's FAQ found [http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/wii/file/943658/53074 here]. The Pokémon Hayley brings are random, so I guess Arceus is a possibility, but Hayley won't be able to trade it off. - [[User:Legotim|█╬▓◘ ’M █╚▓█ (ţś_łєğǿŧΐм)]] [[User talk:Legotim|spreche]] 05:06, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

==Hmmm....==
Should we add that Arceus is the most hacked Pokemon? Every hacker I know owns a Arceus ''and'' all its plates. [[User:Strong Intelligent|Strong Intelligent]]
:No. tc26 14:03, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
::I own all the plates too. I got them underground. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 22:46, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

:::I spent so much time underground that I have more than one of each plate. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 03:22, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

== Church? ==

{{u|Sui}} keeps adding an external link to "The Church of Arceus." I'm wondering whether or not this is notable enough, or if it's just an advertisement for an obscure fansite. I don't know anything, so you guys be the judges. --[[User:Martonimos|Martonimos]][[User talk:Martonimos|((Argh]]|[[Special:Contributions/Martonimos|Blargh))]] 21:59, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

== Ūber? ==

If [[Arceus]] isn't offically reveiled, how can it be called Ūber? Can't spell.

☆ShinyPiKa 19:17, 8 August 2008 (UTC)☆
:Well, some people hack into their games and can get Arceus that way. So they know that way. ...I really dunno [[User:Takoto|Takoto タコト]]| サソデイ = 愛 19:22, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

::His stats put him in the league of the strongest Pokemon of all, so he's safe to call that. [[User:Toastypk|'''''~Toastypk''''']] - [[User_Talk:Toastypk|'''Loom.''']] 19:28, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

::: Although that is true, it isn't revealed yet so it can't be under that catagory '''yet'''. It's been annoying me, please remove it. ShinyPiKa 19:58, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

:::It's being used, and people are able to--gasp, shocker--read its stats! And, since its stats (and movepool, for that matter) are pretty decent, it can be classified as "uber," despite it being revealed or not. --'''[[User:Gabbie|gabbie]]''' | '''[[User_talk:Gabbie|talk]]''' 21:07, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

:::: But people still use Arceus on Wi-Fi. Darkrai and Shaymin were in and are still in the UBER tier so why should Arceus be any different?--[[User:Blazevoir|Blaz]][[User talk:Blazevoir|evoir]] 20:59, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

::::: Because it hasn't been revealed yet !!! :D ShinyPiKa 22:23, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
::::::You cant use Arceyus in the battle tower. [[User:MathijsP|MathijsP]] 09:30, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
::::::: Please remove [[Arceus]] from the Ūber secion 4 now, when its reveaaled u can add it back.ShinyPiKa 15:00, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
:::::::: Why? Every other website considers it ÜBER. Why should Bulba be any different?--[[User:Blazevoir|Blaz]][[User talk:Blazevoir|evoir]] 15:08, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::Because people think Nintendo will kill us for actually taking note of their stuff before they officially reveal them. Unlike Platinum's existence before May 15, though, it can be proven that Arceus exists. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 17:21, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Arceus vs. Mew ==

This is all that Mew's Pokédex entries say:

*Because it can use all kinds of moves, many scientists believe Mew to be the ancestor of Pokémon.
*Mew is said to possess the genetic composition of all Pokémon.
*Because it can learn any move, some people began research to see if it is the ancestor of all Pokémon.

First off, this kind of stuff didn't appear until Silver. Second off, it is ''very'' couched in uncertainty, and it is ''never'' said that its actually been shown to possess every type of DNA - ''only that its ability to perform any move has generated that rumor''.

Second off, several Pokémon are completely artificial, such as {{p|Grimer}}/{{p/Muk}}, {{p|Castform}}, or {{p|Porygon}}/{{p|Porygon2}}/{{p|Porygon-Z}}. So, how could Mew be considered their "ancestor", or have their DNA, if its supposed to be the "first Pokemon"? Wouldn't having the DNA of Pokemon who appeared completely separate from any genetic lineage instead imply Mew was their descendant?

Porygon is even said to be "A Pokémon that consists entirely of programming code." So, no DNA at all, and its upgrades are said to simply have had AI installed.

Even allowing for the monstrously egregious interpretations of genetics in the series, the idea that having all the DNA of a group makes you its ancestor is hogwash - its entirely the other way around.

Now, lets look at Arceus, and its info.
*It is told in mythology that this Pokémon was born before the universe even existed.
*It is described in mythology as the Pokémon that shaped the universe with its 1,000 arms.
* "Two beings of time and space set free from the Original One."
* "Three beings were born to bind time and space."
* "Two make matter and three make spirit, shaping the world."
* "The Original One breathed alone before the universe came."

Now, this is ''much'' more explicit than the Mew bit '''ever''' was. It makes it absolutely clear that Arceus came ''before even the universe itself, much less other Pokémon'', and that it in fact created the world and life itself. Once could claim that this is uncertain do to its status as "mythology", but that would be hilariously in denial of how the series has used mythology so far - as an origin story, not as something by definition uncertain or false.

How is there even a dispute about this? If it's a retcon at all, it's a fairly small one - it was clear from the beginning that the bit about Mew being the origin had a contradictory explanation.

Now, what could work is that Mew is supposed to be god-like like Arceus and other Legendaries - in this case, it would logically be some scion of life, which would in fact explain its design. If the bit about Mew containing all other DNA turned out to be "true", in the context of the franchise, then this would also make much more sense than the pseudo-scientific jargon used in Silver - Mew contains the DNA because it is the ultimate personification of life/birth, and the scientists are trying to force a contradictory explanation for the oddity in order to deny its true, supernatural origin.

So can we please stop claiming things like the D/P Pokedex "still stating that it's the ancestor of all pokémon", or that "it's no different than people believing Arceus is the creator"? [[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 06:14, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
:Creationism vs science? In my Pokémon? It's more likely than you think! '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 06:30, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

::ummm... "Uncertain", If I recall correctly, it can learn "Transform", which, unless I'm mistaken, involves the recombination of it's own DNA to match said pokemon that transforms. And, since Ditto's Pokédex entry hints that how it transforms involves it recombining it's DNA to match the pokémon it's trying to match, the same can easily be said for Mew. So, really, considering how it knows transform, and it can transform into a lot of pokémon, even legendaries that were supposedly created before it, it still has merit in regards to having the DNA of all pokémon, and thus being the ancestor of all pokémon.

::As for the Porygon/2/z example, considering the mere fact that Mew can transform into these three pokémon DESPITE apparantly not having their DNA, I think that those Pokémon have a miniscule amount of Mew's DNA (otherwise, how can Ditto [Or mew, for that matter] transform into them?].). Besides, just because they are composed entirely of AI (whether it's the free will kind or not doesn't matter) doesn't mean it can't have DNA. Take the Mega Man series (specifically, the Mega Man X subseries through the Mega Man ZX series.), the Reploids were mentioned to be complete Machines (all derived from X's design), and yet the games also mentions that they have DNA (Reploid "DNA" was used to form the Nightmare Virus, and also revive Necromances III, Harumachine, Blizzard Staggoff, and Copy X. Plus, Axl's ability involves him mimicking his enemies (and in the case of Command Mission and [Technically] ZX advent, even bosses.).

::And anyways, Mew can also transform into Grimer, Muk, and Castform, which, if Mew didn't have their DNA, then how can Mew OR Ditto even transform into them?

::Also, about it's pokedex entries, both of them contradict themselves. I mean, one says that it was born before the universe existed, and yet, the other hints that it was born a little while AFTER the Universe was created, and that all IT did was merely "shape" the universe. Plus, it doesn't even HAVE 1,000 arms in its sprite, and not only that, but It also apparantly can't even learn any attacks involving arms, such as all of the punch variants.

::as for the origin book, that ALSO doesn't mention Giratina (yet, anyways, for all we know, Platinum could add it in.), and plus, that same thing hinted that Dialga and Palkia are two halves of Arceus, but then, why cant they merge together (I mean, Dragon Quest, and Mephiles the Dark could do it without much trouble from programming data, so why cant D/P)?

::and anyways, the legends also hinted that Legendaries can't be captured by mere mortals, yet most of the crime syndicates, the Pyramid King and even the protagonist has been wielding these pokemon as if they were nothing.

::That's my ruling as to how the thing isn't retconned (well, that, as well as the fact that, if it was, then wouldn't they have removed the entry from the Pokédex?) [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 10:49, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

lets remember that game physics are different from animé physics. Dialga, Palkia and giratina symbolise physics of the Pokémon world: time, space and dimensions,so if Arceus is the master of them that wouldn't make sense:creationism and science don't go together. Mew can transform its appearance, but not the nature or unique functions of a Pokémon, and if we follow good sense we can also say that it can't copy Pokémon which evolved in a special way because their not ''original'' like trading its bioligical fusion of item and Pokémon DNA.--[[User:Nobody777|Nobody777]] 12:40, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

:I'm pretty sure that it can copy even those that evolved in a "special" way in even the Anime. Remember, Weavile evolves from Sneasel via the Sharp Claw item, which also fits under the special way, and despite that, Mew STILL transformed into that pokemon in the Lucario Movie. If it can evolve through something like that, I'm pretty certain that it is even ancestral to those pokemon who evolve via special means. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 13:50, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
:::Wait, '''''what?''''' You're saying that ''because it can do something that '''Ditto''' can do'', it must be the ancestor of all Pokemon? Wouldn't this also require Ditto to be the ancestor of all Pokemon?
:::'''Porygon''': Then you are making up things contradictory to the established in-game facts in order to force in your own fan-theory. Almost every Pokedex entry for the Porygon line reiterates that they have NOTHING but programming code.
:::'''MegaMan X''': It is never, ''ever'' stated that the robots are "completely mechanical" - that they have souls, DNA, and can merge with living things pretty much makes that theory impossible. DNA is a very specific thing - it's ''not'' a general concept about information derivation, it's a ''specific organic acid''.
:::'''Axl''': His ability has NOTHING to do with DNA, and is never claimed to. It's essentially analogous to what Transformers do.
:::'''Muk''': I didn't say that Mew didn't necessarily possess the DNA of all creatures, though that's not the only way to copy them. I said that claiming this meant it was the ancestor was so completely ignorant of evolution and genetics that it deserves ridicule.
:::However, Ditto is able to copy them because it is an amoeba, and can change the shape of its body at will. To be fair, it is ''once'' said to be able to copy the opponent's genetic code - which would only work AFTER seeing the opponent. As that is EXACTLY how Transform is described anyway, that theory is blown out of the water.
:::'''Arceus' Pokedex''': This is a bald-faced lie. The pokedex entries in no way claim that Arceus came to be after the Universe existed - at best, they claim he came before it, created it, and shaped it.
:::'''Arms''': Have you considered the fact that it could have lost them, or given them up? It is the only Arceus in existence, by the very necessity of its being, so its not going to be something like "They're all born without the arms". It "set free" all those legendaries from itself - maybe it made them from its arms, like so '''very''' many Creation Myths, ''especially the linked Pangu one''.
:::You could also consider that "1000" is often used in Japanese writing to mean "many", instead of a specific number, and as the trios of matter and spirit are considered extensions of Arceus, they could be its "appendages" in a spiritual sense. Seriously, that part of its Pokedex isn't contradictory ''at all''.
:::'''Merge''': What does this have to do with ''anything''? Why would Dragon Quest have any bearing on this?
:::'''Legends''': In the games? No, the legends don't claim that, so the fact that certain legendaries fight with trainers is not contradictory, regardless of your false assertion that it's "like nothing". In the anime, where the legends imply that messing with them is incredibly dangerous to the natural order...well, I'll just let you watch the movies, or something, and try to claim that it's "like nothing".
:::'''Remove''': Why would it be removed? It never claimed anything that was '''false''' - again, '''''it only claims that fictional scientists have a tenuous, uncertain belief based on one of its abilities'''''. The deliberate uncertainty of the Pokedex entries, in contrast to nearly every other Pokedex entry, even for Legendaries, has to be considered. If it's not simply a monstrous misunderstanding of genetics on the game designer's part, then it's almost certainly meant to be a reference to "Supernatural vs. Naturalist science".
::::''"If it can evolve through something like that, I'm pretty certain that it is even ancestral to those pokemon who evolve via special means."''
:::Again, this is inherently contradictory. If these are supposed to be new Pokemon, who only came into existence through a modern item, how could Mew possibly be said to already contain their DNA just because it can ''copy their form''? Remember, Porygon is said to be completely artificial, not an accident like Muk or Grimer.
::::''"lets remember that game physics are different from animé physics. Dialga, Palkia and giratina symbolise physics of the Pokémon world: time, space and dimensions,so if Arceus is the master of them that wouldn't make sense:creationism and science don't go together."'''
:::If Arceus is their master, then that would be in-game science. Science is the pursuit of ''truth'', not the pursuit of purely-materialistic explanations whether it's the truth or not.
:::Also, Giratina would symbolize the afterlife, or some other term for "The Other", not dimensions - "space", in the concept referred to by the triad, would necessarily contain dimensions already, parallel or measurable.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 05:46, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
::::I'm not SAYING that Ditto necessarily IS the ancestor, I only brought it into the picture since it's the only OTHER pokemon to know Transform. And besides which, the Pokédex entry for Ditto explicitly stated that it can transform by rearranging it's Genetic Structure (in other words, it's DNA) to that of it's target. It ALSO replicates their move set and, unless I'm mistaken, even their stats and natures.
::::actually, the Pokedex contradicted ITSELF in that case. I mean, if it doesn't have ANY DNA, then Ditto (not to mention Mew) couldn't transform into it OR it's family, and we all know that it can. Try and get a ditto, and try to face off against Porygon or it's family members in your games, and use transform against it if you don't believe me.
::::Ahem... when I said "Mega Man X" I mean from the Mega Man X saga ALL THE WAY to Mega Man ZX saga. In Mega Man Zero 4: ''Intro: The Reploids... They were robots designed to look like humans... these '''technical marvels''' were given unique personalities and were intended to be the perfect workers and the perfect partners of mankind...'' Later, Dr. Weil says something that would hint at Reploid being COMPLETELY mechanical. This is when Zero encounters him at the Ragnarōk core: Dr. Weil: ''Justice!? Freedom!? Worthless ideals! '''You Reploids are Just Machines, but you started a war a long time ago in the name of freedom!''' And Humans! Look what they did to me! Driving Me away while spurting the word "Justice!"'' And don't assume that he knows nothing about Reploid Physiology since he worked on reviving Reploids prior to his banishment from Neo Arcadia, and besides which, the reason why he was banished was because he created Dark Elf and augmented Zero's original body to become the horrific Omega, as well as instigated the Elf Wars. That shows that he knows quite a LOT about Reploids.
::::as for Axl, it was indeed DNA. in fact, Model A, whose personality (as well as his abilities and the form that Grey/Ashe take on when Megamerging with Model A) is clearly Based off of Axl, and would have easily been labeled as a reincarnation of Axl if Master Albert didn't say that it was actually "Model Albert". Heck, after beating Buckfire in the game, he explicitly mentions that he absorbed Buckfire's DNA, which would allow Grey/ashe to transform and utilize his abilities at will.
::::It also mentioned that Mew possessed the DNA of all Pokémon, though (and anyways, just saying that it "possesses the Genetic code for "pokémon" pretty much implies ALL Pokemon.). And that's what I was saying about Transform the whole time. I mean, Ancestors have to have the DNA of ALL Pokémon to actually be labeled as an Ancestor of all pokémon.
::::As for the Arceus entry, the way Pearl's Pokedex entry was worded made it seem as though it Shaped the universe as soon as it was born. And anyways, the Origin Myth implied that Arceus was the creator of the universe, whileas Pearl's Dex entry stated that it merely shaped it.
::::How can a god lose arms? I mean, Did Ares become one-armed? No, he didn't, and he has fought several wars where something like Decapitation or losing some part of limbs can be considered inevitable, esp. during his time.
::::Lets see, because the Origin thing mentioned that Dialga and Palkia are two halves of Arceus, and, if they were truly two halves of the same being, then having them both in your party would gain you a new arceus. but it doesn't.
::::Let's see, because only the Crime syndicates, the Hero/ine, and in one case, a BF leader, was able to capture legendaries. Also, in the Anime, the only time that the legendaries actually CAUSED a natural imbalance was in "Pokemon 2000", which even THEN, it was hinted that it was actually caused by territorial disputes rather than because it was captured in and of itself. most of the other movies and anime related things that featured legendaries didn't have the legendaries causing all Hades to break loose right when they were captured. Besides, as common in many mythos, A god simply cannot be captured by Mortals.
::::Because, if they didn't HAVE DNA, then Mew and Ditto CAN'T transform, since the move Transform requires the Genetic Code of a pokémon. Besides, that was directed at the guy who said that those who evolve via trades and items can't be related to Mew.
::::No, it's in game Mythology. The Origin story is nothing more than one big myth.
::::And yet it's constantly implied that Giratina is listed among Dialga and Palkia.
::::Anyways, that's all for now. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 11:25, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
::'''Ditto''': Your logic was that, because it can use Transform, it must be the ancestor. Either this implies that Ditto is also the ancestor (a contradiction), or you need to not make such claims. Its inherently self-contradictory.
::While Ditto's profile ''does'' sometimes say that it '''copies''' (not already possesses) the opponent's genetic code, it also says that it is "Capable of reorganizing its cells to transform into an exact duplicate of its enemy. It is usually a shapeless blob.", and that it can transform to resemble a rock. It is explicitly clear from the Pokedex entries, the description of Transform, and how Ditto is presented in the series, that it is merely ''reshaping it's '''own''' genetic code to '''resemble''' something else''. Because, as we all know, ROCK's DON'T HAVE DNA.
::The description of Transform, and how Ditto uses it, does ''not'' require that the opponent has DNA, only that Ditto does. ''Please keep this in mind''.
::The definition of "machine" does not require that something be purely inorganic in nature, and neither of the quotes you provided really even claims anything near that. Weil's quote, in that case, is emotional, and almost certainly pointing out his view that Reploid's are inferior and by nature servants of humans. This is the view used by ''all'' the villains in the Zero series, and is actually a ''huge'' part of the conflict. Play the games again.
::'''Axl''': No, it's not DNA. It's never said to be DNA. It's said to be a special ability of his, to transform his body. Model A, while designed to be a callback to Axl, is NOT Axl. However, I grant you that the Shittenou are said to have been derived from X's DNA. As Reploids are ''never'' said to be completely mechanical, and DNA is only mentioned as belonging to X and the Shittenou (notice that in ZX, Reploids and organics ''have been combined anyway'' - play the game again), it doesn't support your claim that something purely mechanical or programmed can still have DNA.
::'''Ancestor'': No, it says that some scientists ''claim'' that based on its abilities. '''You need to get that through your head''', and stop claiming that the Pokedex outright claims these things. You should also learn that your concept of "ancestry" is completely, utterly flawed, with no basis in any kind of genetics, and absolutely ridiculous. I'm sorry to be so harsh, but it's outright folly. That's NOT how an ancestor would be determined.
::'''Pearl''': You are again twisting or inserting things into the Pokedex that are not there in order to fit your views.
::'''Arms''': Hephaestus. Hercules. Pangu. Ymir. Odin. Please, think before spouting - gods are ''very'' prone to lose parts of their bodies.
::'''Halves''': First off, it doesn't. It claims they are two parts of Arceus. There is ''no basis'' in science ''or'' mythology for what you claim - Pangu and Ymir don't suddenly come back just because all the pieces are there. Two halves of an apple don't rejoin to a full apple just because they are there.
::'''Capture''': Pokemon 2000, in which the sea itself sprung forth, Pokemon the Movie, in which the world almost drowned, Pokemon 3, in which UNOWN nearly crystallized the earth, Pokemon 4Ever, in which messing with Celebi caused the forest to become a rampaging monster, Jirachi Wishmaker, in which messing with Jirachi caused the earth to come alive as a rampaging monster, Rise of Darkrai, in which Dialga and Palkia being disturbed nearly rent apart time and space...nearly every movie follows this format. Don't be so dense. Why would the world ''immediately'' come apart, anyway? If you removed the moon, it would still take some time for the seas to destabilize. As for your assertion that gods cannot be captured - you clearly have no knowledge of mythology. Such a thing is rife throughout Norse, Greek, Roman, Chinese, Japanese, Native American, African....nearly every mythology has such a thing happen. Only Abrahamic religions, where the ''sole'' God has absolute power and absolute perfection, has a deity invulnerable to human effort.
::'''New Pokemon''': First off, I didn't say all new Pokemon didn't have DNA, only that some of these included Pokemon who are explicitly said to be purely artificial. Second off, ''you really need to actually look stuff up before claiming things'' - your claims about, well, damn near everything in this discussion have almost no basis in what the game's have actually said. Transform requires the USER's DNA to be changed to cause the USER to resemble the opponent. There is no intake of DNA, and it would be ridiculous to claim that Ditto already has a databank of all DNA (remember, it can turn into Ash - is Ditto Ash's ancestor?)
::...it would be mythology (a story which explains the origin of the world) AND science (an experimentally fact-checked story which explains an empirical truth). Mythology is ''not'' equivalent to "lies and untruths".
::'''Giratina''': ...um, yeah. Which is why I explained that it can't represent something ruled by one of the others.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 22:37, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
:::As I said in my previous post, I wasn't implying that Ditto is the ANCESTOR (I only brought it into the picture because it's the only pokémon aside from Mew to learn Transform. Did I SAY that Ditto was the ancestor of all pokemon? no, I didn't.).
:::And that's why I differentiated between Mew and Ditto, see, Ditto needed to copy the DNA, yet it is hinted repeatedly even in DP that Mew's DNA contains all of Pokemon (more than just moves, also stats and typings to a certain extent [I.E. Transform]. Heck, it can even utilize Judgement if it wanted to (Not by move tutor's of course, but definitely via Metronome.). That's what makes Mew the ancestor. Besides, there's more to being an ancestor than just being there first. You must ALSO be genetically related. I'm not going into the DP thing since you're obviously missing the idea.
:::Ok, I'l agree with the Norse gods (though to be fair, it wasn't caused by Mortals), but Hercules was a half god, meaning, he can still be mutilated significantly by mortals with visible scarring.
:::Ok, I already covered Pokemon 2000, and the Unown weren't TRUE Legendary Pokemon. Also, The only thing caused by the capture of Celebi was the forest pokemon being POed, that Mecha didn't count since Iron Masked marauder made that mech. All Celebi did was just act as the core. Heck, Ask Blackjack Palazzo if you don't believe me, since she also mentioned that as well. I'll acknowledge Jirachi, though. As for the Rise of Darkrai, Humans weren't even responsible for Dialga and Palkia fighting, they just met when they ended up in a bad mood. Also, Mewtwo tried to do those actions to try and earn the right to exist (though most of that was eliminated from the Dub, sadly.). As for what you stated, if gods CAN be captured by mere mortals, EXPLAIN why Pirithous couldn't even capture Persephone without having his own butt stuck on a bench for all of eternity?! Heck, name one story where Zeus or any of the PURE gods were captured by mere mortals and forced to do their bidding by the Mortals command. Also, just FYI, I just mastered AP Latin, so DON'T say I'm not knowledgeable in Mythology in the Graeco-roman kind at least.
:::And for the last time, I didn't IMPLY nor state that Ditto even HAD a databank of DNA, that attribute belongs to Mew, and Mew alone.
:::Sheesh, sometimes you guys are impossible.[[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 23:00, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
::::It doesn't matter whether you explicitly say that Ditto is the ancestor - you're reasoning relies on claiming that the ability to use Transform is an indicator of having the DNA, and being the ancestor. Just by looking at Ditto, that's false. Being snarky about it doesn't change the fact that you're wrong.
::::Clefairy also has metronome, so Metronome cannot be an indicator of being the ancestor. To be the ancestor of all Pokemon, all Pokemon must be your descendants. Dialga and Palkia are clearly and explicitly descendants of Arceus only, unless Mew is Arceus' ancestor, which would be contradictory to what we are told. Again, you are confusing something the game frequently reiterates is a rumor, with what the game puts forth as exposition.
::::...what the hell do you mean "to be fair"? I never claimed that mortals caused the gods to lose body parts, and its completely irrelevant to discussion. As for Hercules, he became a full god after his original death.
::::....okay, I'm just going to post back your original post on this sub-topic, because you seem to have a bad memory:
:::''"and anyways, the legends also hinted that Legendaries can't be captured by mere mortals, yet most of the crime syndicates, the Pyramid King and even the protagonist has been wielding these pokemon '''as if they were nothing.'''"''
::::Mewtwo, the only Pokemon I can think of that was actually wielded by a "crime syndicate", caused those actions because it was PO'd about ''being used by humans''.
::::As far as I can tell, your implication with that passage was that Legendaries weren't the god-like beings that the legends indicated - ''yet their actions, even in The Rise of Darkrai, explicitly demonstrates that they are''. Whether a human actively screws with them or not, they ''can and will'' rip the world apart if they're in a bad mood. I'm also unaware of the legends implying that it's impossible to capture them - only that it's impossible to safely enslave them.
::::Wow...you pass high school latin, and you deem it logical to choose ''one'' example from ''one'' mythology to claim that ''all'' mortals in ''all'' mythology will never have the upper hand against ''any'' god? I'm definitely out of my league here!
::::Some other examples:
:::::''...Zeus then ordered Hades to chain Sisyphus in Tartarus. Sisyphus slyly asked Thanatos to try the chains to show how they worked. When Thanatos did so, Sisyphus secured them and threatened Hades. This caused an uproar, and no human could die until Ares (who was annoyed that his battles had lost their fun because his opponents would not die) intervened, freeing Thanatos and sending Sisyphus to Tartarus.''
:::::''Tantalus offered up his son, Pelops, as a sacrifice to the gods. He cut Pelops up, boiled him, and served him up as food for the gods. The gods were said to be aware of his plan for their feast, so they didn't touch the offering; only Demeter, distraught by the loss of her daughter, Persephone, "did not realize what it was" and ate part of the boy's shoulder.''
::::Yes, those who mess with the gods get it in the end - but isn't this ''exactly'' what happens to those who mess with the Legendary Pokemon? Even innocent play with pseudo-legendaries like Unown can endanger the world.
::::...I don't know how I can make this more plain:
:::::'''''You claimed that Mew's ability to use Transform meant it had to be the ancestor, and brought up Ditto as a "evidence" for your interpretation of how Transform worked.''''' Now, when confronted with this, you claim that the ability to use Transform does not imply something is the ancestor. '''''Make up your mind'''''.
:::::Actually, to be fair, you don't actually bring up this glaring inconsistency. You just try to avoid the contradiction, and try to "eat your cake and have it too."

To summarize:
#Mythology, as portrayed in the series, is quite reliable.
#Arceus' mythology is neither self-contradictory, nor unique among real-world mythology.
#The claim about Mew having the DNA of all Pokemon is not only contradictory to the explicit facts about artificial Pokemon such as Porygon, but never even claimed as fact, only as a rumor.
#Transform, as described in-game and as demonstrated by Ditto, does ''not'' require a databank of all DNA. It merely requires the ability to change shape, or to replicate another's DNA.
#Metronome, as described in-game and as demonstrated by Clefairy, also does not require a databank of all DNA.
#Claiming that Mew is the ancestor of all Pokemon is inherently contradictory to the stated claims about Arceus, Dialga, Palkia, Mesprit, Axelf, Uxie, and Heatran.
#Even before considering the contradictions in the total mythology, '''''The idea that having a copy of all of a group's DNA implies you are their ancestor is inherently ridiculous and contradictory. It is the opposite of how genetics and inheritance actually works, even on the most basic level. It can be immediately refuted by a thought-examination of a child and his two, un-related parents.'''''

[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 08:08, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Umm... Hello. May I be permitted to submit my own wild abstractions?(*looks around*) Thank you. Well, what if Arceus began by creating the Universe and then created Mew as a template for all Pokémon who then flew off and was disregarded whilst Arceus was busy creating the 'gods' of Time and Space... Or something...[[User:Monblazon|Monblazon]] 21:15, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
::That would work. Mew could conceivably be the progenitor or ancestor of ''most'' Pokemon, but not all.
::Also, I'm sorry, it turns out Axl's Copy Shot ''does'' use DNA Cores, so I apologize for being wrong about that bit.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 07:26, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
:::Thank you! I am good at filling in inconsistencies in canon like that...[[User:Monblazon|Monblazon]] 18:53, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
== STAB ==

The movesets seem to automatically assume Arceus is of the Fighting Type. I am unfamiliar with how this is coded, and so don't know how to fix it - is there anyone who can fix it?[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 06:00, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
:Don't you mean Dragon-type? --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 06:03, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
::Everything on the page assumes that Arceus is a randomly-generated type. It's a bit of code TTE added.--[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 06:42, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
:::Arceus is a {{type2|{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|0=???|1=Normal|2=Fighting|3=Flying|4=Poison|5=Ground|6=Rock|7=Bug|8=Ghost|9=Steel|10=Fire|11=Water|12=Grass|13=Electric|14=Psychic|15=Ice|16=Dragon|17=Dark}}}}... everyone knows that.
:::Yeah. My random code that changes depending on the time that the page is last loaded to cache. Takes the Unix time (seconds since 1/1/1970) and then does a modulo division by 18, assigning one of the eighteen forms of Arceus to each remainder. Unown does a similar thing, but you only notice it in the evoboxes. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 07:04, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

== Empty ==

There is no content in the "In the anime", "In the manga" and "In the TCG". So why not somebody delete it?
[[User:FireHazard|FireHazard]] 03:07, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
:So when it comes out we can put it there.All pages fit a designated template[[User:Darth Cookie Monster|DCM]]

== Moves ==
why is the movelist not where its supposed to be????
or is it just my computer????[[User:Dion24|Dion24]] 11:03, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

:It looks fine to me. What problem are you seeing? ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 17:49, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

::The level up nd TM learnsets appear at the top of the page over all the writing [[User:Dion24|Dion24]] 07:53, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

that happened to me, and I realized that happened because I browsed all of the arceus formes or most of them.--[[User:Nobody777|Nobody777]] 13:15, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
:Everything on the page goes wired after you press show sprites and the movelist and everything else goes weird, and this goes for all pages. It might only be my computer, but it should be changed to suit all. --[[User:Wowy|Wowy]] 00:51, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
::I don't understand... What browser are you using? '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 07:01, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Talk:Arceus (Pokémon)/Archive 1

2008-09-02T18:53:41Z

Monblazon:

Um, {{u|TTEchidna}}, you put down that Arseus can become an ???-type Pokémon by holding a ??? Plate. Where'd you get that from?--[[User:Pokencyclopedia|Pokencyclopedia]] 21:35, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Man u have got to be kidding me Arceus catch rate should not be 3. I used my Action replay to get the item 4 arceus then i went and caought it on my 5th dusk ball. My friend caought it on him 1st ultra ball. Another friend i gave the item 2 caught it on his 2nd qiuck ball.
:Man, you have to be kidding me, you can't even spell the word "you" right. Arceus's catch rate is 3. If you'll notice, those balls multiply the catch rate formula by quite a bit, which greatly increases the chance to be caught. Plus, it's all on luck, I've had Magikarp break out of balls before. --'''[[User:TTEchidna|T]][[User talk:TTEchidna|T]][[wp:Echidna|Echidna]]''' 22:36, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

I added an alternative origin to Arceus's name that I found on: http://www.serebiiforums.com/showthread.php?t=286767.[[User:Draconium|Draconium]] 23:42, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

==Is there a point...==
Is there a point of having a table for each of the plates when it is attached to Arceus?
We could just have Arceus without a plate, and then have each title with an image and a sentence saying what type Arceus changes to.
For Example:

==Type effectiveness==
===No plate equipped===
{{DP type effectiveness|
type1=normal|
Normal= 100 |
Fighting=200 |
Flying= 100 |
Poison= 100 |
Ground= 100 |
Rock= 100 |
Bug= 100 |
Ghost= 0 |
Steel= 100 |

Fire= 100 |
Water= 100 |
Grass= 100 |
Electric=100 |
Psychic= 100 |
Ice= 100 |
Dragon= 100 |
Dark= 100 }}
[[Image:Spr 4d 493-Fire.png|thumb|right|Sprite for {{type2|Fire}} Arceus]]
===With Flame Plate===
When the Flame Plate is attached to Arceus, it becomes a Fire type.

etc... [[User:Tesh|Tesh]] 23:06, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

==Picture==
I have this picture:

[[Image:Arceus.PNG]]

I did not draw it. I want to use it on the page. It is much better than trying to stare at a tiny sprite. --[[User:Stinkoman|Stinkoman]] 15:08, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

:Better than a sprite for sure, but it'd be nice if we could find one without such bad compression artifacts. [[User:Invisible Shiny Bulbasaur|Invisible Shiny Bulbasaur]] 22:30, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
::I don't think we should really be using an unofficial image for the page. What would be nice is if somebody could get a nice, high-quality (as in NOT a photo of the monitor) screenshot of ARceus from PBR.--[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 01:22, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
:::You mean hack an Arceus and copy it into PBR?
[[Image:Psychic-attack.png|Psychic]][[Image:Ani475MS.gif]] '''[[User:Optimus35|Agent]] [[Gallade (Pokémon)|448]][[User talk:Optimus35|Talk]] | [[User:Optimus35/Diamond&Pearl|DP]]''' [[Image:Fighting-attack.png|Fighting]] 11:46, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

== Sprites? ==

Should we include separate sprite templates for all of the forms, or just do it for one? I know that Unown and Castform, among others, would serve the same problem. '''[[User:TTEchidna|T]][[User talk:TTEchidna|T]][[wp:Echidna|Echidna]]''' 22:10, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

== Art?! ==

I'd like to know the source of Arceus' picture. Mainly because it hasn't been revealed yet. TinaTheKirlia 02:44, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
:It's a piece of fanart. --[[User:DarkfireTaimatsu|DarkfireTaimatsu]] 02:47, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
::That's what I thought, although there was an edit that said "Official Art" or something and it was rather confusing. TinaTheKirlia 16:29, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
I think we should replace that art with a sprite. It seems inaccurate... Mariocaper 19:19, 20 September 2007

Yeah, and we could enlarge the size of the sprite so it won't be that tiny anymore, right? [[Image:Psychic-attack.png|Psychic]]http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/sprites/dpiconani/dpiconani475.gif '''[[User:Optimus35|Optimus35]][[User talk:Optimus35|Talk]] | [[User:Optimus35/Diamond&Pearl|DP]]''' [[Image:Fighting-attack.png|Fighting]] 06:45, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
:Enlarged sprites look terrible. --[[User:DarkfireTaimatsu|DarkfireTaimatsu]] 06:49, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
::Couldn't we get a PBR screenshot? And I mean a screenshot, not someone pointing their camera at a television? (We need that for Rosy and Sashay, too...)--[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 07:13, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
::I can't, my FRAPS only works on full screen games like Maple Story...I think we could take the Arceus photo, enlarge it and sharpen it a little, then put it back on bulba. The only problem with this is that the sprite would be oversize...
:::I hope that you have permission to use that piece of fan art. --[[Special:Contributions/Kenji-girl|☆]][[Tracey Sketchit|ケンジ]][[User:Kenji-girl|ガール]] 21:27, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
::::I've got five PBR shots. They're all in my [[User:Optimus35/Sandbox|sandbox]]. Click on the links under 'Arceus'. Tell me which one looks best on my talk page and I'll upload it onto Bulbagarden Archives...[[Image:Ani475MS.gif]] '''[[User:Optimus35|Agent]] [[User:Optimus35/Mission|4]][[User:Optimus35/Emerald|4]][[Gallade (Pokémon)|8]][[User talk:Optimus35|δ]] | [[User:Optimus35/Diamond&Pearl|DP]]''' | [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?limit=50&title=Special%3AContributions&contribs=user&target=Optimus35&namespace=0&year=&month=-1 ☆][[Image:Ani282MS.gif]] 09:01, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Change the pic!
[[User:Crystallucario|Crystallucario]] 14:54, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
:The reason why we're not changing it is because it's nicely done fanart, and it's more easier to look at this instead of a sprite.
:Otherwise it'd be absolute hell for me to draw Arceus. Still is, but certainly more easier than looking at a sprite. :p [[User:Tina|Tina]] [[Special:Contributions/Tina|δ]][[User talk:Tina|♫]] 16:40, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
hmmm maybe ok whatever...
[[User:Crystallucario|CrystalLucario 12:23, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
::...except, do we have permission to use the image? The image page doesn't seem to claim it at all, so I'm going to go ahead and guess that we're doing something illegal or at least unethical here. Seriously, why can't we just use a PBR shot?[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 00:58, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
:::Since when was pokemon ever ethical? Think about it, the aim of the game is to run away from home at 10 years old (good parenting skills mom) and after having abuse a poor little starly to the brink of death by slashing it over and over again with false swipe you throw something at it, only adding to the poor creature's pain and torture only to trap it inside a small, cramped chamber for the rest of its unnatural life whilst using it to abuse other pokemon. But anyways I digress, the point is the piece of fanart looks nice, is accurate and fits in perfectly with all the official pokemon artwork. Hell when I first visited the page I thought it WAS a piece of official artwork. A PBR snapshot would not be at all as effective as the fanart. So no, we ain't havin a PBR shot. [[User:Wikid|Wikid]] 16:20, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

::::No one is questioning the ethics of the series, just in using someone else's work without their consent. Besides, the face is drawn wrong. There should be more lines running across it. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 16:28, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Metronome ==

My Mew used Judgement through Metronome. Should I include something like this under "Trivia":

Although Nintendo is attempting to keep Arceus secret, it is possible for Arceus's signature move, {{m|Judgment}}, to be used through {{m|Metronome}}, thus potentially revealing the existence of Arceus to otherwise unaware fans.

--[[User:Shiny Noctowl|Shiny Noctowl]][[User talk:Shiny Noctowl|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Shiny Noctowl|Contribs]][[Image:Ani480MS.gif]] 20:33, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

i could draw arceus if that would help. i like drawing pokémon. [[talonclawz]] new comer!!!!!!!!!! [[Image:Ani444MS.gif‎]]

== Shishigami? ==

Should any mention of the Forest Spirit Shishigami from Miyazaki Hayao's Mononoke-Hime be mentioned in the article? Arceus seems to have a resemblance to Shishigami. In addition, on the illegal hacked Pokémon Diamond (Telefang Power), Shishigami appears on the front, despite not having anything to do with the game (that's the way those criminals work), and then in the real Pokémon Diamond, Arceus was added. Does anyone else think that some trivia should be added about this? ~Kumori Satosuke
:Outside of the whole quadrupedal thing, I don't think there's anything else that's official to suggest a connection. For example, Arceus seems to be nothing outside of a creator, while shishigami is given dominion over life and death.--[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 03:27, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
::Yes, I agree. There really isn't anything linking the two other than a vague (And I do mean VAGUE.) resemblance. --[[User:Dual|Dual]] 14:15, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

== ??? type sprite may prevent crash ==
Just a theory, but the programmers at Game Freak may have drawn and programmmed a ??? type Arceus to prevent game crashes. Anyone with a code patcher can figure out how to change a Pokémon's type. They might have figured that someone would tamper with Arceus's type, and if they changed it to a ??? type, and there was no sprite for it, the game would crash because it would try loading data that does not exist. That's my theory anyway. [[User:Fsilone|Fsilone]] 02:10, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
:That's really logical. figure that by yourself? But I still don't know if we should put that in the article.[[Image:Ani471MS.gif]][[User:Pokemaniac102|'''Poke''''''maniac''''''102''']][[Image:AniEggMS.gif]] 02:17, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

::im a little iffy on the grammer, but other than that i think its a fantastic theory and should be in the trivia section. excellent. now all i need to do is figure out how to do it myself in my game with the Action Replay... [[Image:Ani081MS.gif|35px]][[User:MAGNEDETH|MAGNEDETH]][[Image:Ani082MS.gif|35px]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|TALK]][[Image:Ani462MS.gif|35px]] 02:30, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

:::You can't - you need to edit the rom data - action replay only edits temporary and save data. Think so anyway. '''[[:User:Origamiguy|折り紙ガイ]] - [[:User_talk:Origamiguy|離す]][[:Special:Contributions/Origamiguy|貢献]]''' 15:37, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

I think I don't see anything grammatically wrong. I copied the words above and reworded it into sentences.[[Image:Ani471MS.gif]][[User:Pokemaniac102|'''Poke''''''maniac''''''102''']][[Image:AniEggMS.gif]] 02:34, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

:yea, im probibly wrong, im not joking when i say i failed english class......twice...with a 54..... [[Image:Ani081MS.gif|35px]][[User:MAGNEDETH|MAGNEDETH]][[Image:Ani082MS.gif|35px]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|TALK]][[Image:Ani462MS.gif|35px]] 03:42, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

what the heck is shishigami? is it a pokémon?(someone out there?) [[-talonclawz]] new comer!!!!! [[Image:212MS.gif]] 1:06, 5 April 2008

No. Wait a minute if you don't know that Errr...how new are you to Pokémon?[[User:Crystallucario|'''''Crystal''''']] [[User talk:Crystallucario|'''''Lucario''''']] 17:43, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

A shishigami is a Japanese god of death. [[User:LordKaien|LordKaien]] 14:51, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

== {{type2|???}} Sprite ==

[[Image:Question-Type Arceus Before.jpg|thumb|left|Before]][[Image:Question-Type Arceus After.jpg|thumb|right|After]]How long has the sprite of ???-type Arceus been pulling that vanishing act? Basically, the only time you can see the sprite is when the white background on PNG-format images is still visible, as seen in the Before shot. Once the white backgrounds vanish, the rest of the sprite should still be there. However, on ???-type Arceus, the sprite vanishes along with the background, as seen in the After shot. Is there a way to fix this?

(The shots in question come from an area of my own user page, specifically a [[Template:User Favorite Move|favorite move tag]] programmed for a ???-type move and {{m|Curse}} with the Arceus sprite in question for a laugh. The [[Template:User 2000|2000-edits in a month tag]] above it is also shown for comparison.) --[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 05:41, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

:Wow. That's weird that it just disappears! --[[Image:Spr 3e 059.gif|70px]][[Image:Spr 3e 132.gif]]'''[[User:Theryguy512|Theryguy]][[User:Theryguy512/Contribution Page|5]][[User:Theryguy512/Mission Page|1]][[User:Theryguy512/Sandbox|2]]''' [[Image:Trozeiani025.gif]] 11:59, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
I think I figured out the vanishing act. It's due to the filename. Many operating systems don't allow question marks in filenames, and it's probably due to those that caused the image to vanish. I went and uploaded an image to [[a:Image:Spr 4d 493-Unknown.png|Image:Spr 4d 493-Unknown.png]] on the archives, and that image works as it should! Every instance of the vanishing image has been changed to the one that doesn't vanish, so you won't be seeing vanishing ???-type Arceus again anytime soon. --[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 16:37, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

== Pic ==

Okay, I remember {{u|Urutapu}} saying something about a screenshot of Arceus from PBR. Well, I got a Wii ''and'' PBR for Christmas. And I have *cough*cheated*cough* four Arceuses. All I need now is a good-quality emulator that can screenshot my Wii with. Any suggestions?
--{{u|Stinkoman}}

Somehow theres a way of putting a SCART socket into your PC and running it through that. My mate's computer can do that but i think it had the socket when he bought it. [[Image:Ani258MS.gif]][[User:Origamiguy|OrigamiGuy]] Lieks [[Mudkip (Pokémon)|Mudkipz]][[Image:Ani258MS.gif]]

== Officially been revealed ==
Until this Pokemon has been officially revealed (by Nintendo or Coro Coro magazine) this page should be removed, because the only reason why there is proof of its existence is through a hacking or cheating device.
:WHAT! This page should be included on here. If it is in the Game, weather or not if it has been reaveled, it IS STILL IN THE GAME WITHOUT HAVING TO BE MADE{{Ani|493}}[[User:Darth Cookie Monster|'''C ''']]{{Ani|491}}[[User talk:Darth Cookie Monster|''' Is''']]{{Ani|426}}[[User:Darth Cookie Monster/My Story|'''for Cookie''']]{{Ani|473}}
::Yea, this page is about a Pokémon. In case you don't know (hopefully you do), this is a Pokémon encyclopedia. This page is like mandatory. --'''[[User:Theryguy512|Theryguy]][[User talk:Theryguy512|5]][[User:Theryguy512/Contribution Page|1]][[User:Theryguy512/Similarities|2]]''' 02:12, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
:::Exactly. We have pages for all Pokémon ''officially programmed into the games''. Would you come here before Deoxys was revealed and say "NUH UH THERE'S ONLY 201 IN HOENN DEOXYS IS A HAKKER ONLY POKEMAN." Arceus is official, they're just holding off on the official revelation. Besides... plenty of Pokémon from each generation were never revealed through CoroCoro or by Nintendo individually. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]][[Image:Ani155MS.gif|Fire echy]]''' 07:07, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

I may only be 10, but take it from me. Arceus is real. It is on pokemon.com's pokedex.[[User:DaPikanator56|DaPikanator56]] 18:47, 22 March 2008 (UTC){{u|DaPikanator56}}
:Well, actually, it's not on the PokéDex on [[Pokemon.com]], but yes, it is real. --'''[[User:Theryguy512|Theryguy]][[User talk:Theryguy512|5]][[User:Theryguy512/Contribution Page|1]][[User:Theryguy512/Similarities|2]]''' 13:17, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
::An example of what TTE said would be the Porygons. '''<sc>[[User:Optimus35|{{tt|Optimatum♏|Optimus35}}]]</sc>[[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|♊]]02:32 30 Mar 2008'''

Oh yeah! It and ummm... {{p|Shaymin}} I think aren't Theryguy.[[User:DaPikanator56|DaPikanator56]] 18:52, 30 March 2008 (UTC){{u|DaPikanator56}}
:Shaymin has been acknowledged by official Japanese sources. And to address the original point, we are not Wikipedia. Everyone knows that Arceus is real, so this page is a necessity. Hell, we have articles for a lot of glitch Pokémon so a real one definately passes. --[[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] [[User talk:Fabu-Vinny|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Fabu-Vinny|C]]-[[User:Fabu-Vinny/Sandbox|S]] 23:52, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

True...Oh, and by the way, in the summer I will shorten my visits here, but this place rules! It ain't demented like Chuckie Cheese's.
:) ^-^[[User:DaPikanator56|DaPikanator56]] 22:31, 3 April 2008 (UTC)DaPikanator56

==Picture==

I found this picture interesting, but low quality. [http://www.pokebeach.com/news/0507/arceus.jpg its on www.pokebeach.com] --[[User:Britannia's Blade|Britannia's Blade]] 21:25, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
:Good find, but it's already linked from the article [[Arceus (Pokémon)#External links|right here]]. --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 23:38, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

------------
I also just found this one [http://www.arkeis.com/images/pokemonfactory/arceus.png ****] Fan art of course but very serious looking, Lots more like it [http://www.arkeis.com/legendaries.htm here] what do you think? --[[User:Britannia's Blade|Britannia's Blade]] 18:47, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
:I don't see how fanart is very notable to put up here.. >_> [[User:Tina|Tina]] [[Special:Contributions/Tina|δ]][[User talk:Tina|♫]] 19:06, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
::The one we have right now will do us until Arcy is revealed next year. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 20:37, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
:::What about this one? - [http://www.pokebeach.com/news/0507/arceus2.jpg (1)] '''[[:User:Origamiguy|折り紙ガイ]] - [[:User_talk:Origamiguy|離す]][[:Special:Contributions/Origamiguy|貢献]]''' 15:45, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
::::-Gasp- Why not that one! Ooo, take it! TAKE IT!!! '''[[User:Optimus35|<sc>Optimatum</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''13:53 2 May 2008'''''
TTE, Arceus isn't going 2 be revealed 4 two years yet. [[User:LordKaien|LordKaien]] 14:53, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

==Arceus and Giratina==
Aren't Arceus and Giratina sort of opposites of each other because Arceus is God and Giratina is the devil sort of, I mean Arceus didn't create Giratina so that means they were the two entities before time started. [[User:Big Johnno|Pokémon Master]] 17:46 15 May 2008
:Maybe you're right, but i think that Giratina is part of the Dragon Trio. [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 23:37, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
::Giratina is the BOSS! It saved the two other Pokamon! Posted by the '''[[User:Optimus35|<sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''01:04 17 May 2008'''''
:Hold on, there's no reason to get angry. Why can't we just WAIT until Arceus is officially revealed? Isn't that BETTER than argueing? [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 23:37, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

In my eyes it would be

Dialga + Palkia = Rivals (Time VS Space)

Giratina + Arceus = Rivals (God VS Darkness?)

So yeah, regardless of the fact Giratina is part of the Dragon Trio.
(''Thinking about it, those four are exactly the same as my characters |: Lily = Controls Time. Darkness = Controls Space. Akito = Controls Death. Rose = Controls Life/Is a sort-of God. But anyway, my characters are irrelevant too this xD'') [[User:Takoto|Takoto タコト]]| サソデイ = 愛 14:37, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
:So, Arceus is God/JesusHoly Spirit, and Giratina is Satan? O.O It's Da '''[[User:Optimus35|<sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''06:03 26 May 2008'''''
::Arceus is Arceus. Giratina is Giratina. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 07:02, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
:::Meh, that's the Atheist way of seeing it. Hey, wait, am I about to be stone for being anti-atheist? Damn. It's Da '''[[User:Optimus35|<sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''07:13 26 May 2008'''''
::::I didn't say Giratina was Satan, i simply said he was...darkness. [[User:Takoto|Takoto タコト]]| サソデイ = 愛 02:05, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
My question is, how do you KNOW Giratina is bad, or if Arceus is even good? How do you KNOW Giratina wasn't created by Arceus? You don't. Besides, Neither ot them are from Christianity, and U know what? I'm a devout Christian and I don't care if Arceus wasn't based off of my God. [[User:LordKaien|LordKaien]] 14:56, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
:Does anybody want to see it this way, "WE SHOULD ALL JUST WAIT"? [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 22:06, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
::I don't think Giratina is evil. You don't have too be evil/whatever to control darkness/whatever Giratina controls. I do not think Giratina is evil! [[User:Takoto|Takoto タコト]]| サソデイ = 愛 22:22, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
:Is this text INVISIBLE? WE SHOULD ALL JUST WAIT! [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 00:28, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
::Thank you, good people of bulbapedia, for waiting. [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 00:57, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

== More sprites ==

Ok, so we have all the type sprites for Arceus and it's shiny sprite, but we don't have shiny forms for Arceus' other types. Could someone please tell me if it's possible to get those sprites and if so get them for us? [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 12:08, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
:If i could, i would, but i can't, so i can't help you. I'm not even 100% sure Arceus's other-type sprites HAVE shiny versions of them :| [[User:Takoto|Takoto タコト]]| サソデイ = 愛 14:27, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
::They do. And a simple method is to color the sprites the right color. The white portion of the body is the only part which remains constant throughout the non-shiny forms. and when it becomes shiny, the rings are the same color as those of the non-shiny ones. The only thing that differs between non-shiny and shiny is the white portion, which turns yellow. It's Da '''[[User:Optimus35|<sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''06:01 26 May 2008'''''
:So... could you do that for us as a favor? [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 22:02, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
::I might have those sprites on my computer somewhere. Want me to upload them? [[User:Yinyang1195|Yin]][[User talk:Yinyang1195|Yang]] 20:05, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
:Why don't you recolor them...it will be easy.--[[User:Tavisource|☆Tavis]][[User talk:Tavisource|ource]] 00:49, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
::I dont no how... [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 00:54, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
:Hmm...I would do it, but I'm very busy right now, you could go ask hcfx2 for help, he's great at recoloration.--[[User:Tavisource|☆Tavis]][[User talk:Tavisource|ource]] 00:57, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
:Nevermind, i found them on "a:Catagory:Arceus". But thanks :) [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 01:11, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

== Metronome and Judgement ==

If a player knows nothing about Arceus, how would they know that Judgement is its signature attack? Even if it is used by a Pokémon using Metronome. So could Metronome really spoil the surprise? ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 02:50, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
:Not really. ^^; Metronome can do ANYTHING. Even Explosion so...'''[[User:Optimus35|It's the <sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''02:54 4 Jun 2008'''''
::Well, if they were like "Ooh, what learns that?!" and can't find anyone, they'll suspect it to be some crazy legendary not yet shown. And have lived under a rock since EVERYONE KNOWS OF ARCEUS. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 03:03, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
:::Hmm, then Singapore must be under a rock. Only two people I know know what's Arceus, that includes me. '''[[User:Optimus35|It's the <sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''03:12 4 Jun 2008'''''
::::Or this is nintendo's way of teasing us. kinda like,
Player:"What pokémon learns this?"
Nintendo:"Wait and see"
Player:"You suck."[[User:LordKaien|LordKaien]] 12:39, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

I only ask because of this quote in the trivia:

"''Although Nintendo is attempting to keep Arceus secret, it is possible for Arceus's signature move, Judgment, to be used through Metronome, thus potentially revealing the existence of Arceus to otherwise unaware fans.''"

Plus, Nintendo ''has'' to know that the majority of their fanbase uses the internet. Every Pokémon website except the "official" ones have info on Arceus. A lot of them even before the games were released globally. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 15:57, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
:The majority of the fanbase are kids who don't necessarily visit fansites. --[[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] |[[User talk:Fabu-Vinny|Talk Page]]| 16:02, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
::No ([[User:MathijsP|MathijsP]] 16:03, 4 June 2008 (UTC))
:::Yes. --[[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] |[[User talk:Fabu-Vinny|Talk Page]]| 16:04, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
::::No ([[User:MathijsP|MathijsP]] 16:05, 4 June 2008 (UTC))

:::::I would have to disagree with that statement. I believe that most fans may have been kids at the beginning when Pokémon first came out, but now have grown as the series has. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 16:18, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

A similar thing happened to me when I was playing PBR. I ordered my Togepi to use Metronome and out came Judgment. I wondered what Pokémon used this move until I checked this site and I found Arceus. I didn't even know about its existence AT ALL when Metronome was used that one year ago... {{ani|385}}[[User:BlueJirachi|BlueJirachi]] 18:01, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

== Arceus's pattern in the anime? ==

I didn't get a second look (mainly because I deleted the episode from my DVR), but I heard in the episode "Journey to the Unknown!" that Saturn was holding a cube with Arceus's pattern on it... [[User:ShinyRayquaza|ShinyRayquaza]] 19:35, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

== Arceus + Sky Plate? ==

If you attach a Sky Plate to Arceus, wouldn't that make it become the first pure Flying-type Pokémon? [[User:Wynautluvr|Wynautluvr]] 16:53, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

:It is the first "permanent" pure Flying-type. The Porygon line can become Flying-types with their Conversion moves, and Kecleon can with its Color Change Ability. These Pokémon, however, revert back to Normal when the battle is over. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 18:56, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

::It's not permanent, in that you can change the plate and it loses the pure-flying status... '''[[:User:Origamiguy|Lord]] of [[:User_talk:Origamiguy|Ori]][[Special:Contributions/Origamiguy|gami]]''' 15:16, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
:::It's permanent in that it doesn't go away just because the battle ends. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 21:46, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
::::No its not. Its only a permanent flying type if its natural type (i.e. no plate) is flying. You might as well say its also the first permamnent ??? type since it can become that (potentially) too.[[User:Wikid|Wikid]] 16:43, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

:::::If you never remove the plate, then it's permanent. Plus, you can't obtain a ???-type Arceus in-game in any normal fashion. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 16:45, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

:::::: Says you. firstly, the word permanent implies that the typing can never be changed. If you unequip the plate Arceus goes back to normal therefore it's not permanent. At best I would say its semi-permament. Secondly, there might a ??? plate given out at an event or found somewhere in platinum like Glacidia's flower. ??? forme arceus might be the result when you enter the torn world with arceus. It might even be what Arceus looks like when it is a shadow pokemon as there might be a new game coming out to do with shadow pokemon and DPP might be the first generation where you can trade shadow pokemon over. Therefore if you can trade it as shadow poke between DP and platinum then there is a way to get an ??? forme Arceus in a normal fashion.[[User:Wikid|Wikid]] 17:21, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Fine. "Semi-permanent". ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 17:24, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== The ??? Plate ==

The ??? Plate exists, It is named mysterious plate by CodeJunkies, It may also be encountered in the underground as a Malfunction, people got this (like my brother) and attached it to ARCEUS, making the ??? type, no weaknesses are found on this type--[[User:M.vit|M.vit]] 00:10, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
:Believe me, people code-spelunk like there's no tomorrow...there isn't such thing.--[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 00:10, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

can M.vit at least tell how did his brother encounter such a plate, and how does it function with other Pokémon?and what happens to a Pokémon who knows the move [[curse]]

can somebody edit this article . It says that Arceus creted the Pokémon Universe,''Dragon trio'' and lake trio. Till now the dragon trio isn't officially confirmed. so whether I or somebody else should change the Dragon trio to the time-space duo: Dialga and Palkia.--[[User:Nobody777|Nobody777]] 13:56, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

well, seems that nobody is out of topic, BTW, i have seem to find this code in Code Junkies here it is
Mysterious Plate x999
94000130 fcff0000
b21c4d28 00000000
b0000004 00000000
00000890 03e70133
d2000000 00000000--[[User:M.vit|M.vit]] 16:55, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

:The plates all have different names on CodeJunkies which are the translated Japenese names. I believe the Mysterious Plate is actually the Mind Plate. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 17:13, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
::Your right, it is the mind plate. '''{{Colored link|:User:Origamiguy|ff8000|Lord}} of {{Colored link|:User_talk:Origamiguy|ff8000|Ori}}{{Colored link|Special:Contributions/Origamiguy|ff8000|gami}}''' 16:45, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

==type change==

Keckleons ability color change changes its type according to the move done by the opponent so if ???-type arceus used judjement, will it change its type? can anyone experiment?--[[User:Nobody777|Nobody777]] 13:21, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

:The fact that you can't get a ??? plate makes it difficult to say. I have no idea what would happen...♪♪[[User:ShinyPachirisu|Shiny]] [[User Talk:ShinyPachirisu|Pachirisu]] :) ♪♪ 13:23, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

::???-type moves have been hacked and have no effect. So Kecleon would probably be unaffected. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 13:39, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
:::Actually, they do have an effect... they just deal minimal damage. Lemme see what it does in Gen III later on... '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 23:41, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Pal Park]] ==

Will it really freeze the game when you put Arceus infront of the party and bla bla bla to the Pal Park?
[[User:Palkia38|Palkia38]] 03:48, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

== Now... ==

Isn't what I did so freaking cool? I mean, look at it. And the best thing is that it is totally dependent on the ''exact second'' that you save/access the page. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 07:32, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
:A fine template, indeed. Would it be useful to use something like this to generate random examples in paragraphs?
:P.S.: What you did (a calculation based on a clock) is even a good idea for a new ability or move in the game that picks a random type. --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 07:53, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
::Now if we only had the backsprites for the various forms...--[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 22:49, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
:::Two clock-based calculations would make it even more random. Watch this. {{#expr: ({{#time: U}} div {{#time: s}}) mod 9002}} {{#ifexpr: (({{#time: U}} div {{#time: s}}) mod 9002) > 9000|<big>'''← IT'S OVER 9000!!!'''</big>}}
:::As for random examples... hmm... Well, what are you thinking?
:::And I wish for the backsprites, too... And the minisprite, does it change with Arceus? '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 22:58, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

==Arceus in My Pokémon Ranch==
For a fact,someone in the German forum BisaBoard got Arceus as one of the daily Pokémon!This person was -like me- totally dumbfounded and opened that thread to know more about this phenomena.
I've asked some expert in the same message board if this would be really possible.To my surprise,he said that he checked the programme code and Arceus is really included!I think this MUST be put into the Trivia section.[[User:Uxie legend|Uxie legend]]

:How does one check the program code of a Wii Ware title? And of course Arceus would be there, it can be deposited just like any other Pokémon. Plus, I ''doubt'' that Hayley will trade you an Arceus... ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 16:02, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

::Might be wrong, but I believe there is a set list of Pokémon Hayley will only trade off, which was found and released in dr_nza's FAQ found [http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/wii/file/943658/53074 here]. The Pokémon Hayley brings are random, so I guess Arceus is a possibility, but Hayley won't be able to trade it off. - [[User:Legotim|█╬▓◘ ’M █╚▓█ (ţś_łєğǿŧΐм)]] [[User talk:Legotim|spreche]] 05:06, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

==Hmmm....==
Should we add that Arceus is the most hacked Pokemon? Every hacker I know owns a Arceus ''and'' all its plates. [[User:Strong Intelligent|Strong Intelligent]]
:No. tc26 14:03, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
::I own all the plates too. I got them underground. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 22:46, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

:::I spent so much time underground that I have more than one of each plate. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 03:22, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

== Church? ==

{{u|Sui}} keeps adding an external link to "The Church of Arceus." I'm wondering whether or not this is notable enough, or if it's just an advertisement for an obscure fansite. I don't know anything, so you guys be the judges. --[[User:Martonimos|Martonimos]][[User talk:Martonimos|((Argh]]|[[Special:Contributions/Martonimos|Blargh))]] 21:59, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

== Ūber? ==

If [[Arceus]] isn't offically reveiled, how can it be called Ūber? Can't spell.

☆ShinyPiKa 19:17, 8 August 2008 (UTC)☆
:Well, some people hack into their games and can get Arceus that way. So they know that way. ...I really dunno [[User:Takoto|Takoto タコト]]| サソデイ = 愛 19:22, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

::His stats put him in the league of the strongest Pokemon of all, so he's safe to call that. [[User:Toastypk|'''''~Toastypk''''']] - [[User_Talk:Toastypk|'''Loom.''']] 19:28, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

::: Although that is true, it isn't revealed yet so it can't be under that catagory '''yet'''. It's been annoying me, please remove it. ShinyPiKa 19:58, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

:::It's being used, and people are able to--gasp, shocker--read its stats! And, since its stats (and movepool, for that matter) are pretty decent, it can be classified as "uber," despite it being revealed or not. --'''[[User:Gabbie|gabbie]]''' | '''[[User_talk:Gabbie|talk]]''' 21:07, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

:::: But people still use Arceus on Wi-Fi. Darkrai and Shaymin were in and are still in the UBER tier so why should Arceus be any different?--[[User:Blazevoir|Blaz]][[User talk:Blazevoir|evoir]] 20:59, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

::::: Because it hasn't been revealed yet !!! :D ShinyPiKa 22:23, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
::::::You cant use Arceyus in the battle tower. [[User:MathijsP|MathijsP]] 09:30, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
::::::: Please remove [[Arceus]] from the Ūber secion 4 now, when its reveaaled u can add it back.ShinyPiKa 15:00, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
:::::::: Why? Every other website considers it ÜBER. Why should Bulba be any different?--[[User:Blazevoir|Blaz]][[User talk:Blazevoir|evoir]] 15:08, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::Because people think Nintendo will kill us for actually taking note of their stuff before they officially reveal them. Unlike Platinum's existence before May 15, though, it can be proven that Arceus exists. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 17:21, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Arceus vs. Mew ==

This is all that Mew's Pokédex entries say:

*Because it can use all kinds of moves, many scientists believe Mew to be the ancestor of Pokémon.
*Mew is said to possess the genetic composition of all Pokémon.
*Because it can learn any move, some people began research to see if it is the ancestor of all Pokémon.

First off, this kind of stuff didn't appear until Silver. Second off, it is ''very'' couched in uncertainty, and it is ''never'' said that its actually been shown to possess every type of DNA - ''only that its ability to perform any move has generated that rumor''.

Second off, several Pokémon are completely artificial, such as {{p|Grimer}}/{{p/Muk}}, {{p|Castform}}, or {{p|Porygon}}/{{p|Porygon2}}/{{p|Porygon-Z}}. So, how could Mew be considered their "ancestor", or have their DNA, if its supposed to be the "first Pokemon"? Wouldn't having the DNA of Pokemon who appeared completely separate from any genetic lineage instead imply Mew was their descendant?

Porygon is even said to be "A Pokémon that consists entirely of programming code." So, no DNA at all, and its upgrades are said to simply have had AI installed.

Even allowing for the monstrously egregious interpretations of genetics in the series, the idea that having all the DNA of a group makes you its ancestor is hogwash - its entirely the other way around.

Now, lets look at Arceus, and its info.
*It is told in mythology that this Pokémon was born before the universe even existed.
*It is described in mythology as the Pokémon that shaped the universe with its 1,000 arms.
* "Two beings of time and space set free from the Original One."
* "Three beings were born to bind time and space."
* "Two make matter and three make spirit, shaping the world."
* "The Original One breathed alone before the universe came."

Now, this is ''much'' more explicit than the Mew bit '''ever''' was. It makes it absolutely clear that Arceus came ''before even the universe itself, much less other Pokémon'', and that it in fact created the world and life itself. Once could claim that this is uncertain do to its status as "mythology", but that would be hilariously in denial of how the series has used mythology so far - as an origin story, not as something by definition uncertain or false.

How is there even a dispute about this? If it's a retcon at all, it's a fairly small one - it was clear from the beginning that the bit about Mew being the origin had a contradictory explanation.

Now, what could work is that Mew is supposed to be god-like like Arceus and other Legendaries - in this case, it would logically be some scion of life, which would in fact explain its design. If the bit about Mew containing all other DNA turned out to be "true", in the context of the franchise, then this would also make much more sense than the pseudo-scientific jargon used in Silver - Mew contains the DNA because it is the ultimate personification of life/birth, and the scientists are trying to force a contradictory explanation for the oddity in order to deny its true, supernatural origin.

So can we please stop claiming things like the D/P Pokedex "still stating that it's the ancestor of all pokémon", or that "it's no different than people believing Arceus is the creator"? [[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 06:14, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
:Creationism vs science? In my Pokémon? It's more likely than you think! '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 06:30, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

::ummm... "Uncertain", If I recall correctly, it can learn "Transform", which, unless I'm mistaken, involves the recombination of it's own DNA to match said pokemon that transforms. And, since Ditto's Pokédex entry hints that how it transforms involves it recombining it's DNA to match the pokémon it's trying to match, the same can easily be said for Mew. So, really, considering how it knows transform, and it can transform into a lot of pokémon, even legendaries that were supposedly created before it, it still has merit in regards to having the DNA of all pokémon, and thus being the ancestor of all pokémon.

::As for the Porygon/2/z example, considering the mere fact that Mew can transform into these three pokémon DESPITE apparantly not having their DNA, I think that those Pokémon have a miniscule amount of Mew's DNA (otherwise, how can Ditto [Or mew, for that matter] transform into them?].). Besides, just because they are composed entirely of AI (whether it's the free will kind or not doesn't matter) doesn't mean it can't have DNA. Take the Mega Man series (specifically, the Mega Man X subseries through the Mega Man ZX series.), the Reploids were mentioned to be complete Machines (all derived from X's design), and yet the games also mentions that they have DNA (Reploid "DNA" was used to form the Nightmare Virus, and also revive Necromances III, Harumachine, Blizzard Staggoff, and Copy X. Plus, Axl's ability involves him mimicking his enemies (and in the case of Command Mission and [Technically] ZX advent, even bosses.).

::And anyways, Mew can also transform into Grimer, Muk, and Castform, which, if Mew didn't have their DNA, then how can Mew OR Ditto even transform into them?

::Also, about it's pokedex entries, both of them contradict themselves. I mean, one says that it was born before the universe existed, and yet, the other hints that it was born a little while AFTER the Universe was created, and that all IT did was merely "shape" the universe. Plus, it doesn't even HAVE 1,000 arms in its sprite, and not only that, but It also apparantly can't even learn any attacks involving arms, such as all of the punch variants.

::as for the origin book, that ALSO doesn't mention Giratina (yet, anyways, for all we know, Platinum could add it in.), and plus, that same thing hinted that Dialga and Palkia are two halves of Arceus, but then, why cant they merge together (I mean, Dragon Quest, and Mephiles the Dark could do it without much trouble from programming data, so why cant D/P)?

::and anyways, the legends also hinted that Legendaries can't be captured by mere mortals, yet most of the crime syndicates, the Pyramid King and even the protagonist has been wielding these pokemon as if they were nothing.

::That's my ruling as to how the thing isn't retconned (well, that, as well as the fact that, if it was, then wouldn't they have removed the entry from the Pokédex?) [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 10:49, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

lets remember that game physics are different from animé physics. Dialga, Palkia and giratina symbolise physics of the Pokémon world: time, space and dimensions,so if Arceus is the master of them that wouldn't make sense:creationism and science don't go together. Mew can transform its appearance, but not the nature or unique functions of a Pokémon, and if we follow good sense we can also say that it can't copy Pokémon which evolved in a special way because their not ''original'' like trading its bioligical fusion of item and Pokémon DNA.--[[User:Nobody777|Nobody777]] 12:40, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

:I'm pretty sure that it can copy even those that evolved in a "special" way in even the Anime. Remember, Weavile evolves from Sneasel via the Sharp Claw item, which also fits under the special way, and despite that, Mew STILL transformed into that pokemon in the Lucario Movie. If it can evolve through something like that, I'm pretty certain that it is even ancestral to those pokemon who evolve via special means. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 13:50, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
:::Wait, '''''what?''''' You're saying that ''because it can do something that '''Ditto''' can do'', it must be the ancestor of all Pokemon? Wouldn't this also require Ditto to be the ancestor of all Pokemon?
:::'''Porygon''': Then you are making up things contradictory to the established in-game facts in order to force in your own fan-theory. Almost every Pokedex entry for the Porygon line reiterates that they have NOTHING but programming code.
:::'''MegaMan X''': It is never, ''ever'' stated that the robots are "completely mechanical" - that they have souls, DNA, and can merge with living things pretty much makes that theory impossible. DNA is a very specific thing - it's ''not'' a general concept about information derivation, it's a ''specific organic acid''.
:::'''Axl''': His ability has NOTHING to do with DNA, and is never claimed to. It's essentially analogous to what Transformers do.
:::'''Muk''': I didn't say that Mew didn't necessarily possess the DNA of all creatures, though that's not the only way to copy them. I said that claiming this meant it was the ancestor was so completely ignorant of evolution and genetics that it deserves ridicule.
:::However, Ditto is able to copy them because it is an amoeba, and can change the shape of its body at will. To be fair, it is ''once'' said to be able to copy the opponent's genetic code - which would only work AFTER seeing the opponent. As that is EXACTLY how Transform is described anyway, that theory is blown out of the water.
:::'''Arceus' Pokedex''': This is a bald-faced lie. The pokedex entries in no way claim that Arceus came to be after the Universe existed - at best, they claim he came before it, created it, and shaped it.
:::'''Arms''': Have you considered the fact that it could have lost them, or given them up? It is the only Arceus in existence, by the very necessity of its being, so its not going to be something like "They're all born without the arms". It "set free" all those legendaries from itself - maybe it made them from its arms, like so '''very''' many Creation Myths, ''especially the linked Pangu one''.
:::You could also consider that "1000" is often used in Japanese writing to mean "many", instead of a specific number, and as the trios of matter and spirit are considered extensions of Arceus, they could be its "appendages" in a spiritual sense. Seriously, that part of its Pokedex isn't contradictory ''at all''.
:::'''Merge''': What does this have to do with ''anything''? Why would Dragon Quest have any bearing on this?
:::'''Legends''': In the games? No, the legends don't claim that, so the fact that certain legendaries fight with trainers is not contradictory, regardless of your false assertion that it's "like nothing". In the anime, where the legends imply that messing with them is incredibly dangerous to the natural order...well, I'll just let you watch the movies, or something, and try to claim that it's "like nothing".
:::'''Remove''': Why would it be removed? It never claimed anything that was '''false''' - again, '''''it only claims that fictional scientists have a tenuous, uncertain belief based on one of its abilities'''''. The deliberate uncertainty of the Pokedex entries, in contrast to nearly every other Pokedex entry, even for Legendaries, has to be considered. If it's not simply a monstrous misunderstanding of genetics on the game designer's part, then it's almost certainly meant to be a reference to "Supernatural vs. Naturalist science".
::::''"If it can evolve through something like that, I'm pretty certain that it is even ancestral to those pokemon who evolve via special means."''
:::Again, this is inherently contradictory. If these are supposed to be new Pokemon, who only came into existence through a modern item, how could Mew possibly be said to already contain their DNA just because it can ''copy their form''? Remember, Porygon is said to be completely artificial, not an accident like Muk or Grimer.
::::''"lets remember that game physics are different from animé physics. Dialga, Palkia and giratina symbolise physics of the Pokémon world: time, space and dimensions,so if Arceus is the master of them that wouldn't make sense:creationism and science don't go together."'''
:::If Arceus is their master, then that would be in-game science. Science is the pursuit of ''truth'', not the pursuit of purely-materialistic explanations whether it's the truth or not.
:::Also, Giratina would symbolize the afterlife, or some other term for "The Other", not dimensions - "space", in the concept referred to by the triad, would necessarily contain dimensions already, parallel or measurable.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 05:46, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
::::I'm not SAYING that Ditto necessarily IS the ancestor, I only brought it into the picture since it's the only OTHER pokemon to know Transform. And besides which, the Pokédex entry for Ditto explicitly stated that it can transform by rearranging it's Genetic Structure (in other words, it's DNA) to that of it's target. It ALSO replicates their move set and, unless I'm mistaken, even their stats and natures.
::::actually, the Pokedex contradicted ITSELF in that case. I mean, if it doesn't have ANY DNA, then Ditto (not to mention Mew) couldn't transform into it OR it's family, and we all know that it can. Try and get a ditto, and try to face off against Porygon or it's family members in your games, and use transform against it if you don't believe me.
::::Ahem... when I said "Mega Man X" I mean from the Mega Man X saga ALL THE WAY to Mega Man ZX saga. In Mega Man Zero 4: ''Intro: The Reploids... They were robots designed to look like humans... these '''technical marvels''' were given unique personalities and were intended to be the perfect workers and the perfect partners of mankind...'' Later, Dr. Weil says something that would hint at Reploid being COMPLETELY mechanical. This is when Zero encounters him at the Ragnarōk core: Dr. Weil: ''Justice!? Freedom!? Worthless ideals! '''You Reploids are Just Machines, but you started a war a long time ago in the name of freedom!''' And Humans! Look what they did to me! Driving Me away while spurting the word "Justice!"'' And don't assume that he knows nothing about Reploid Physiology since he worked on reviving Reploids prior to his banishment from Neo Arcadia, and besides which, the reason why he was banished was because he created Dark Elf and augmented Zero's original body to become the horrific Omega, as well as instigated the Elf Wars. That shows that he knows quite a LOT about Reploids.
::::as for Axl, it was indeed DNA. in fact, Model A, whose personality (as well as his abilities and the form that Grey/Ashe take on when Megamerging with Model A) is clearly Based off of Axl, and would have easily been labeled as a reincarnation of Axl if Master Albert didn't say that it was actually "Model Albert". Heck, after beating Buckfire in the game, he explicitly mentions that he absorbed Buckfire's DNA, which would allow Grey/ashe to transform and utilize his abilities at will.
::::It also mentioned that Mew possessed the DNA of all Pokémon, though (and anyways, just saying that it "possesses the Genetic code for "pokémon" pretty much implies ALL Pokemon.). And that's what I was saying about Transform the whole time. I mean, Ancestors have to have the DNA of ALL Pokémon to actually be labeled as an Ancestor of all pokémon.
::::As for the Arceus entry, the way Pearl's Pokedex entry was worded made it seem as though it Shaped the universe as soon as it was born. And anyways, the Origin Myth implied that Arceus was the creator of the universe, whileas Pearl's Dex entry stated that it merely shaped it.
::::How can a god lose arms? I mean, Did Ares become one-armed? No, he didn't, and he has fought several wars where something like Decapitation or losing some part of limbs can be considered inevitable, esp. during his time.
::::Lets see, because the Origin thing mentioned that Dialga and Palkia are two halves of Arceus, and, if they were truly two halves of the same being, then having them both in your party would gain you a new arceus. but it doesn't.
::::Let's see, because only the Crime syndicates, the Hero/ine, and in one case, a BF leader, was able to capture legendaries. Also, in the Anime, the only time that the legendaries actually CAUSED a natural imbalance was in "Pokemon 2000", which even THEN, it was hinted that it was actually caused by territorial disputes rather than because it was captured in and of itself. most of the other movies and anime related things that featured legendaries didn't have the legendaries causing all Hades to break loose right when they were captured. Besides, as common in many mythos, A god simply cannot be captured by Mortals.
::::Because, if they didn't HAVE DNA, then Mew and Ditto CAN'T transform, since the move Transform requires the Genetic Code of a pokémon. Besides, that was directed at the guy who said that those who evolve via trades and items can't be related to Mew.
::::No, it's in game Mythology. The Origin story is nothing more than one big myth.
::::And yet it's constantly implied that Giratina is listed among Dialga and Palkia.
::::Anyways, that's all for now. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 11:25, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
::'''Ditto''': Your logic was that, because it can use Transform, it must be the ancestor. Either this implies that Ditto is also the ancestor (a contradiction), or you need to not make such claims. Its inherently self-contradictory.
::While Ditto's profile ''does'' sometimes say that it '''copies''' (not already possesses) the opponent's genetic code, it also says that it is "Capable of reorganizing its cells to transform into an exact duplicate of its enemy. It is usually a shapeless blob.", and that it can transform to resemble a rock. It is explicitly clear from the Pokedex entries, the description of Transform, and how Ditto is presented in the series, that it is merely ''reshaping it's '''own''' genetic code to '''resemble''' something else''. Because, as we all know, ROCK's DON'T HAVE DNA.
::The description of Transform, and how Ditto uses it, does ''not'' require that the opponent has DNA, only that Ditto does. ''Please keep this in mind''.
::The definition of "machine" does not require that something be purely inorganic in nature, and neither of the quotes you provided really even claims anything near that. Weil's quote, in that case, is emotional, and almost certainly pointing out his view that Reploid's are inferior and by nature servants of humans. This is the view used by ''all'' the villains in the Zero series, and is actually a ''huge'' part of the conflict. Play the games again.
::'''Axl''': No, it's not DNA. It's never said to be DNA. It's said to be a special ability of his, to transform his body. Model A, while designed to be a callback to Axl, is NOT Axl. However, I grant you that the Shittenou are said to have been derived from X's DNA. As Reploids are ''never'' said to be completely mechanical, and DNA is only mentioned as belonging to X and the Shittenou (notice that in ZX, Reploids and organics ''have been combined anyway'' - play the game again), it doesn't support your claim that something purely mechanical or programmed can still have DNA.
::'''Ancestor'': No, it says that some scientists ''claim'' that based on its abilities. '''You need to get that through your head''', and stop claiming that the Pokedex outright claims these things. You should also learn that your concept of "ancestry" is completely, utterly flawed, with no basis in any kind of genetics, and absolutely ridiculous. I'm sorry to be so harsh, but it's outright folly. That's NOT how an ancestor would be determined.
::'''Pearl''': You are again twisting or inserting things into the Pokedex that are not there in order to fit your views.
::'''Arms''': Hephaestus. Hercules. Pangu. Ymir. Odin. Please, think before spouting - gods are ''very'' prone to lose parts of their bodies.
::'''Halves''': First off, it doesn't. It claims they are two parts of Arceus. There is ''no basis'' in science ''or'' mythology for what you claim - Pangu and Ymir don't suddenly come back just because all the pieces are there. Two halves of an apple don't rejoin to a full apple just because they are there.
::'''Capture''': Pokemon 2000, in which the sea itself sprung forth, Pokemon the Movie, in which the world almost drowned, Pokemon 3, in which UNOWN nearly crystallized the earth, Pokemon 4Ever, in which messing with Celebi caused the forest to become a rampaging monster, Jirachi Wishmaker, in which messing with Jirachi caused the earth to come alive as a rampaging monster, Rise of Darkrai, in which Dialga and Palkia being disturbed nearly rent apart time and space...nearly every movie follows this format. Don't be so dense. Why would the world ''immediately'' come apart, anyway? If you removed the moon, it would still take some time for the seas to destabilize. As for your assertion that gods cannot be captured - you clearly have no knowledge of mythology. Such a thing is rife throughout Norse, Greek, Roman, Chinese, Japanese, Native American, African....nearly every mythology has such a thing happen. Only Abrahamic religions, where the ''sole'' God has absolute power and absolute perfection, has a deity invulnerable to human effort.
::'''New Pokemon''': First off, I didn't say all new Pokemon didn't have DNA, only that some of these included Pokemon who are explicitly said to be purely artificial. Second off, ''you really need to actually look stuff up before claiming things'' - your claims about, well, damn near everything in this discussion have almost no basis in what the game's have actually said. Transform requires the USER's DNA to be changed to cause the USER to resemble the opponent. There is no intake of DNA, and it would be ridiculous to claim that Ditto already has a databank of all DNA (remember, it can turn into Ash - is Ditto Ash's ancestor?)
::...it would be mythology (a story which explains the origin of the world) AND science (an experimentally fact-checked story which explains an empirical truth). Mythology is ''not'' equivalent to "lies and untruths".
::'''Giratina''': ...um, yeah. Which is why I explained that it can't represent something ruled by one of the others.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 22:37, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
:::As I said in my previous post, I wasn't implying that Ditto is the ANCESTOR (I only brought it into the picture because it's the only pokémon aside from Mew to learn Transform. Did I SAY that Ditto was the ancestor of all pokemon? no, I didn't.).
:::And that's why I differentiated between Mew and Ditto, see, Ditto needed to copy the DNA, yet it is hinted repeatedly even in DP that Mew's DNA contains all of Pokemon (more than just moves, also stats and typings to a certain extent [I.E. Transform]. Heck, it can even utilize Judgement if it wanted to (Not by move tutor's of course, but definitely via Metronome.). That's what makes Mew the ancestor. Besides, there's more to being an ancestor than just being there first. You must ALSO be genetically related. I'm not going into the DP thing since you're obviously missing the idea.
:::Ok, I'l agree with the Norse gods (though to be fair, it wasn't caused by Mortals), but Hercules was a half god, meaning, he can still be mutilated significantly by mortals with visible scarring.
:::Ok, I already covered Pokemon 2000, and the Unown weren't TRUE Legendary Pokemon. Also, The only thing caused by the capture of Celebi was the forest pokemon being POed, that Mecha didn't count since Iron Masked marauder made that mech. All Celebi did was just act as the core. Heck, Ask Blackjack Palazzo if you don't believe me, since she also mentioned that as well. I'll acknowledge Jirachi, though. As for the Rise of Darkrai, Humans weren't even responsible for Dialga and Palkia fighting, they just met when they ended up in a bad mood. Also, Mewtwo tried to do those actions to try and earn the right to exist (though most of that was eliminated from the Dub, sadly.). As for what you stated, if gods CAN be captured by mere mortals, EXPLAIN why Pirithous couldn't even capture Persephone without having his own butt stuck on a bench for all of eternity?! Heck, name one story where Zeus or any of the PURE gods were captured by mere mortals and forced to do their bidding by the Mortals command. Also, just FYI, I just mastered AP Latin, so DON'T say I'm not knowledgeable in Mythology in the Graeco-roman kind at least.
:::And for the last time, I didn't IMPLY nor state that Ditto even HAD a databank of DNA, that attribute belongs to Mew, and Mew alone.
:::Sheesh, sometimes you guys are impossible.[[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 23:00, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
::::It doesn't matter whether you explicitly say that Ditto is the ancestor - you're reasoning relies on claiming that the ability to use Transform is an indicator of having the DNA, and being the ancestor. Just by looking at Ditto, that's false. Being snarky about it doesn't change the fact that you're wrong.
::::Clefairy also has metronome, so Metronome cannot be an indicator of being the ancestor. To be the ancestor of all Pokemon, all Pokemon must be your descendants. Dialga and Palkia are clearly and explicitly descendants of Arceus only, unless Mew is Arceus' ancestor, which would be contradictory to what we are told. Again, you are confusing something the game frequently reiterates is a rumor, with what the game puts forth as exposition.
::::...what the hell do you mean "to be fair"? I never claimed that mortals caused the gods to lose body parts, and its completely irrelevant to discussion. As for Hercules, he became a full god after his original death.
::::....okay, I'm just going to post back your original post on this sub-topic, because you seem to have a bad memory:
:::''"and anyways, the legends also hinted that Legendaries can't be captured by mere mortals, yet most of the crime syndicates, the Pyramid King and even the protagonist has been wielding these pokemon '''as if they were nothing.'''"''
::::Mewtwo, the only Pokemon I can think of that was actually wielded by a "crime syndicate", caused those actions because it was PO'd about ''being used by humans''.
::::As far as I can tell, your implication with that passage was that Legendaries weren't the god-like beings that the legends indicated - ''yet their actions, even in The Rise of Darkrai, explicitly demonstrates that they are''. Whether a human actively screws with them or not, they ''can and will'' rip the world apart if they're in a bad mood. I'm also unaware of the legends implying that it's impossible to capture them - only that it's impossible to safely enslave them.
::::Wow...you pass high school latin, and you deem it logical to choose ''one'' example from ''one'' mythology to claim that ''all'' mortals in ''all'' mythology will never have the upper hand against ''any'' god? I'm definitely out of my league here!
::::Some other examples:
:::::''...Zeus then ordered Hades to chain Sisyphus in Tartarus. Sisyphus slyly asked Thanatos to try the chains to show how they worked. When Thanatos did so, Sisyphus secured them and threatened Hades. This caused an uproar, and no human could die until Ares (who was annoyed that his battles had lost their fun because his opponents would not die) intervened, freeing Thanatos and sending Sisyphus to Tartarus.''
:::::''Tantalus offered up his son, Pelops, as a sacrifice to the gods. He cut Pelops up, boiled him, and served him up as food for the gods. The gods were said to be aware of his plan for their feast, so they didn't touch the offering; only Demeter, distraught by the loss of her daughter, Persephone, "did not realize what it was" and ate part of the boy's shoulder.''
::::Yes, those who mess with the gods get it in the end - but isn't this ''exactly'' what happens to those who mess with the Legendary Pokemon? Even innocent play with pseudo-legendaries like Unown can endanger the world.
::::...I don't know how I can make this more plain:
:::::'''''You claimed that Mew's ability to use Transform meant it had to be the ancestor, and brought up Ditto as a "evidence" for your interpretation of how Transform worked.''''' Now, when confronted with this, you claim that the ability to use Transform does not imply something is the ancestor. '''''Make up your mind'''''.
:::::Actually, to be fair, you don't actually bring up this glaring inconsistency. You just try to avoid the contradiction, and try to "eat your cake and have it too."

To summarize:
#Mythology, as portrayed in the series, is quite reliable.
#Arceus' mythology is neither self-contradictory, nor unique among real-world mythology.
#The claim about Mew having the DNA of all Pokemon is not only contradictory to the explicit facts about artificial Pokemon such as Porygon, but never even claimed as fact, only as a rumor.
#Transform, as described in-game and as demonstrated by Ditto, does ''not'' require a databank of all DNA. It merely requires the ability to change shape, or to replicate another's DNA.
#Metronome, as described in-game and as demonstrated by Clefairy, also does not require a databank of all DNA.
#Claiming that Mew is the ancestor of all Pokemon is inherently contradictory to the stated claims about Arceus, Dialga, Palkia, Mesprit, Axelf, Uxie, and Heatran.
#Even before considering the contradictions in the total mythology, '''''The idea that having a copy of all of a group's DNA implies you are their ancestor is inherently ridiculous and contradictory. It is the opposite of how genetics and inheritance actually works, even on the most basic level. It can be immediately refuted by a thought-examination of a child and his two, un-related parents.'''''

[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 08:08, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Umm... Hello. May I be permitted to submit my own wild abstractions?(*looks around*) Thank you. Well, what if Arceus began by creating the Universe and then created Mew as a template for all Pokémon who then flew off and was disregarded whilst Arceus was busy creating the 'gods' of Time and Space... Or something...[[User:Monblazon|Monblazon]] 21:15, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
::That would work. Mew could conceivably be the progenitor or ancestor of ''most'' Pokemon, but not all.
::Also, I'm sorry, it turns out Axl's Copy Shot ''does'' use DNA Cores, so I apologize for being wrong about that bit.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 07:26, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
:::Thank you! I am good at filling in inconsistencies in canon like that[[User:Monblazon|Monblazon]] 18:53, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
== STAB ==

The movesets seem to automatically assume Arceus is of the Fighting Type. I am unfamiliar with how this is coded, and so don't know how to fix it - is there anyone who can fix it?[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 06:00, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
:Don't you mean Dragon-type? --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 06:03, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
::Everything on the page assumes that Arceus is a randomly-generated type. It's a bit of code TTE added.--[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 06:42, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
:::Arceus is a {{type2|{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|0=???|1=Normal|2=Fighting|3=Flying|4=Poison|5=Ground|6=Rock|7=Bug|8=Ghost|9=Steel|10=Fire|11=Water|12=Grass|13=Electric|14=Psychic|15=Ice|16=Dragon|17=Dark}}}}... everyone knows that.
:::Yeah. My random code that changes depending on the time that the page is last loaded to cache. Takes the Unix time (seconds since 1/1/1970) and then does a modulo division by 18, assigning one of the eighteen forms of Arceus to each remainder. Unown does a similar thing, but you only notice it in the evoboxes. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 07:04, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

== Empty ==

There is no content in the "In the anime", "In the manga" and "In the TCG". So why not somebody delete it?
[[User:FireHazard|FireHazard]] 03:07, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
:So when it comes out we can put it there.All pages fit a designated template[[User:Darth Cookie Monster|DCM]]

== Moves ==
why is the movelist not where its supposed to be????
or is it just my computer????[[User:Dion24|Dion24]] 11:03, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

:It looks fine to me. What problem are you seeing? ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 17:49, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

::The level up nd TM learnsets appear at the top of the page over all the writing [[User:Dion24|Dion24]] 07:53, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

that happened to me, and I realized that happened because I browsed all of the arceus formes or most of them.--[[User:Nobody777|Nobody777]] 13:15, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
:Everything on the page goes wired after you press show sprites and the movelist and everything else goes weird, and this goes for all pages. It might only be my computer, but it should be changed to suit all. --[[User:Wowy|Wowy]] 00:51, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
::I don't understand... What browser are you using? '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 07:01, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

User:Monblazon

2008-08-27T20:55:28Z

Monblazon: New page: Hello.

Hello.

Talk:Pokémon of myth/Archive 1

2008-08-20T20:59:32Z

Monblazon:

{{:User:Shiningpikablu252/PA}}
But... we don't even know if they're a trio... '''[[User:TTEchidna|T]][[User talk:TTEchidna|T]][[wp:Echidna|Echidna]]''' 05:20, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

== Wait a tick... ==

Palkia is the Space pokemon 
Dialga is the Time pokemon 
Arceus is the Alpha pokemon 

Wouldn't this technically be the trio; given that, well, aren't Palkia and Dialga technically made of Arceus, or something?

Although, if you took into account that Giratina is related to an "ancient cemetary in another dimension", you could technically consider it:
Arceus ; life ; Alpha
Giratina ; death ; Omega

Beginning and end, so to speak...maybe it could work? Myrmidon 06:58, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
:That'd then make Arceus the master of this trio, too... '''[[User:TTEchidna|T]][[User talk:TTEchidna|T]][[wp:Echidna|Echidna]]''' 09:37, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

::Arceus really did a lot for the world of Pokémon, at least in the mythology. Althoughit is unknown how Arceus relates to Giratina, unlike Dialga and Palkia, where it is clearly known that Arceus created the two. Therefore, it is not really certain if Arceus is in fact the master of this trio. [[User:Pokéball|Pok]][[User_talk:Pokéball|é]][[Special:Contributions/Pokéball|ball]] 18:27, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
:::Either way, I still don't think we should name the "dragon trio" off until DP v3 comes out. We knew beforehand that Rayquaza was the third member of the weather trio, but that's mostly because it just fit. Far as I'm concerned, Dialga and Palkia are just a duo, like Ho-Oh and Lugia. '''[[User:TTEchidna|T]][[User talk:TTEchidna|T]][[wp:Echidna|Echidna]]''' 19:04, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
::::Isn't it obvious that Arceus created Giratina? --[[User:Shiny Noctowl|Shiny Noctowl]][[User talk:Shiny Noctowl|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Shiny Noctowl|Contribs]][[Image:Ani164MS.gif]] 01:45, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
::::Here's proof:
{| border="1" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0"
| align="center" colspan="2" |     || align="center"| [[Image:483.png]] || align="center"| [[Image:484.png]] || align="center"| [[Image:487.png]]
|-
| align="center" rowspan="10"| Attacks (Attacks in '''bold''' do direct damage) || Start || colspan="3" align="center"| '''{{m|DragonBreath}}''' {{m|Scary Face}}
|-
| 10 || '''{{m|Metal Claw}}''' || '''{{m|Water Pulse}}''' || '''{{m|Ominous Wind}}'''
|-
| 20 || colspan="3" align="center"| '''{{m|AncientPower}}'''
|-
| 30 || colspan="3" align="center"| '''{{m|Dragon Claw}}'''
|-
| 40 || '''{{m|Roar of Time}}''' || '''{{m|Spacial Rend}}''' || '''{{m|Shadow Force}}'''
|-
| 50 || colspan="3" align="center"| {{m|Heal Block}}
|-
| 60 || colspan="3" align="center"| '''{{m|Earth Power}}'''
|-
| 70 || colspan="3" align="center"| '''{{m|Slash}}'''
|-
| 80 || '''{{m|Flash Cannon}}''' || '''{{m|Aqua Tail}}''' || '''{{m|Shadow Claw}}'''
|-
| 90 || colspan="3" align="center"| '''{{m|Aura Sphere}}'''
|}
[[Image:Ani164MS.gif]][[User:Shiny Noctowl|Shiny]][[User talk:Shiny Noctowl|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Shiny Noctowl|Contribs]][[Image:Ani408MS.gif]][[Image:Ani410MS.gif]] 12:13, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

:I'm totally against this. This is purely fan speculation...[[Image:Ani475MS.gif]] '''[[User:Optimus35|Agent]] [[User:Optimus35/Mission|4]][[User:Optimus35/Emerald|4]][[Gallade (Pokémon)|8]][[User talk:Optimus35|δ]] | [[User:Optimus35/Diamond&Pearl|DP]]''' | [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?limit=50&title=Special%3AContributions&contribs=user&target=Optimus35&namespace=0&year=&month=-1 ☆][[Image:Ani282MS.gif]] 11:51, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
::Seconded. Adding a cleanup tag. Fan speculation and move similarity mean sh*t, tbh.[[User:Dark0805|'''Dark0805''']] ([[User talk:Dark0805|''talk'']]|[[Special:Contributions/Dark0805|''contribs'']]) 17:06, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
Compare to this:
{| border="1" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0"
| align="center" colspan="2" |     || align="center"| [[Image:382.png]] || align="center"| [[Image:383.png]] || align="center"| [[Image:384.png]]
|-
| align="center" rowspan="12"| Attacks (Attacks in '''bold''' do direct damage) || Start || '''{{m|Water Pulse}}''' || '''{{m|Mud Shot}}''' || '''{{m|Twister}}'''
|-
| 5 || colspan="3" align="center"| {{m|Scary Face}}
|-
| 15 || colspan="3" align="center"| '''{{m|AncientPower}}'''
|-
| 20 || '''{{m|Body Slam}}''' || '''{{m|Slash}}''' || '''{{m|Dragon Claw}}'''
|-
| 30 || {{m|Calm Mind}} || {{m|Bulk Up}} || {{m|Dragon Dance}}
|-
| 35 || '''{{m|Ice Beam}}''' || '''{{m|Earthquake}}''' || '''{{m|Crunch}}'''
|-
| 45 || '''{{m|Hydro Pump}}''' || '''{{m|Fire Blast}}''' || '''{{m|Fly}}'''
|-
| 50 || colspan="3" align="center"| {{m|Rest}}
|-
| 60 || '''{{m|Sheer Cold}}''' || '''{{m|Fissure}}''' || '''{{m|Extremespeed}}'''
|-
| 65 || '''{{m|Double-Edge}}''' || '''{{m|Solarbeam}}''' || '''{{m|Hyper Beam}}'''
|-
| 75 || '''{{m|Aqua Tail}}''' || '''{{m|Earth Power}}''' || '''{{m|Dragon Pulse}}'''
|-
| 80 || '''{{m|Water Spout}}''' || '''{{m|Eruption}}''' || '''{{m|Outrage}}'''
|}

Or this:
{| border="1" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0"
| align="center" colspan="2" |     || align="center"| [[Image:377.png]] || align="center"| [[Image:378.png]] || align="center"| [[Image:379.png]]
|-
| align="center" rowspan="12"| Attacks (Attacks in '''bold''' do direct damage) || Start || colspan="3" align="center"| '''{{M|Explosion}}'''
|-
| 9 || '''{{m|Rock Throw}}''' || '''{{m|Icy Wind}}''' || '''{{m|Metal Claw}}'''
|-
| 17 || colspan="3" align="center"| {{m|Curse}}
|-
| 25 || colspan="3" align="center"| '''{{m|Superpower}}'''
|-
| 33 || colspan="3" align="center"| '''{{m|AncientPower}}'''
|-
| 41 || {{m|Iron Defense}}   ||   {{m|Amnesia}} || {{m|Iron Defense}} {{m|Amnesia}}
|-
| 49 || colspan="3" align="center"| '''{{m|Charge Beam}}'''
|-
| 57 || colspan="3" align="center"| {{m|Lock On}}
|-
| 65 || colspan="3" align="center"| '''{{m|Zap Cannon}}'''
|-
| 73 || '''{{m|Stone Edge}}'''   ||   '''{{m|Ice Beam}}''' || '''{{m|Iron Head}}''' '''{{m|Flash Cannon}}'''
|-
| 81 || colspan="3" align="center"| '''{{m|Hammer Arm}}'''
|-
| 89 || colspan="3" align="center"| '''{{m|Hyper Beam}}'''
|}

[[Image:Ani164MS.gif]][[User:Shiny Noctowl|Shiny]][[User talk:Shiny Noctowl|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Shiny Noctowl|Contribs]][[Image:Ani408MS.gif]][[Image:Ani410MS.gif]] 12:11, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Well it is possible. There is space and time. What else is there. Giratina is said to live in a world on the reverse side of ours. This is possibly the afterlife. This place may neither be space nor time. If these three pokémon are a trio, then it would mean that this trio would control Space, Time, and the Afterlife, which are the only places where anyone could possibly be. [[User:Pokemaniac102|Pokemaniac102]]

AND THEY ALL SHARE THE SAME STATS ONLY MIXED UP.

So, since it's not official. the Dragon Trio, although is based on a certain amount of canon, is fanon as Pokémon and Nintendo have nto released it officially...'''<sc>[[User:Optimus35|{{tt|Optimatum♏|Optimus35}}]]</sc>[[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|♊]]Hi''' 07:03, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

First, Dialga, Palkia, and Giratina all appear in the 11th movie. Second, WHY CAN'T WE ALL WAIT!!![[Image:Ani471MS.gif]][[User:Pokemaniac102|'''Poke''''''maniac''''''102''']] 17:55, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

:Unless someone can give me ''official'' proof that these three are the trio, and that {{p|Giratina}} is the master and the mascot for the third DP game, I'm putting a delete notice on this page. [[Canon]], people! -[[Image:Spr 3e 186.gif|30px]][[User:Politoed666|ニョロトノ]][[User talk:Politoed666|''666'']][[Image:Spr 3e 186.gif|30px]]

::"May even be true" doesn't cut it here. For instance, it may be true that [[Ash Ketchum]] is a cross-dressing girl! However, I'll hold off on the deletion notice until a sysop okays it. -[[Image:Spr 3e 186.gif|30px]][[User:Politoed666|ニョロトノ]][[User talk:Politoed666|''666'']][[Image:Spr 3e 186.gif|30px]]
:How bout shipping the names are fanon and the whole thing is fanon.[[Image:Ani471MS.gif]][[User:Pokemaniac102|'''Poke''''''maniac''''''102''']][[Image:AniEggMS.gif]] 23:57, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

::::[[Shipping]] '''usually''' has some logical basis, and it's noted that it may not be true. It's '''accepted''' that ships are often false (sorry, shippers!), but stuff like this has no place here unless it's official. -[[Image:Spr 3e 186.gif|30px]][[User:Politoed666|ニョロトノ]][[User talk:Politoed666|''666'']][[Image:Spr 3e 186.gif|30px]]
:::::These three Pokémon being a trio '''has some logical basis,''' and it is noted that it may or may not be true. But there are people who believe that these three pokémon are a trio. Some ships have come true(Rocketshipping in manga) and this '''may''' come true too. There are reason that I believe that these three pokémon are a trio:
*They all have the same stats just mixed up.
*They have similar moves, as seen above.
*They look similar in appearance.
*They all were created at the same time, as said in the article about the History of the Pokémon world.
*I believe that Palkia controls space, Dialga controls time, and Giratina controls the only other thing, the afterlife.
But still, it hasn't been revealed yet. But there is a possibility that, '''if''' a third version comes out, It may be Giratina (or Arceus).[[Image:Ani471MS.gif]][[User:Pokemaniac102|'''Poke''''''maniac''''''102''']][[Image:AniEggMS.gif]] 21:53, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
::The possibility of it being Arceus is zero. If the third game confirms that Giratina is the third part of the chain, then fine, make the article. But until that game comes out, this is nothing but fanwank, and thus does not belong here. This page should be scrapped until this information can be OFFICIALLY confirmed. --[[User:Dual|Dual]] 09:54, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
:::Also, following Crystal's pattern, it could be one of the Lake Trio. '''<sc>[[User:Optimus35|{{tt|Optimatum♏|Optimus35}}]]</sc>[[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|♊]]Hi''' 10:14, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
::::Completely possible. But lets leave this article to rot until V3 comes out.{{ani|486}}[[User:Pokemaniac102|<big>'''''Poke'''''</big>]][[User talk:Pokemaniac102|'''''Maniac''''']][[Special:Contributions/Pokemaniac102|<big>'''''102'''''</big>]]{{ani|492}}01:08, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
:::::IF there's a V3. Gen IV has been avoiding most of the rules, such as nearly getting Dark, Psychic and Fighting starters and not all the new Pokémon are in the new dex. '''<sc>[[User:Optimus35|{{tt|Optimatum♏|Optimus35}}]]</sc>[[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|♊]]Hi''' 13:48, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

wait.. if we go by emeralds patten. the '''''MAY''''' be a battle between Palkia and diagla as depicted in the movies and Giratina will quell the battle. {{u|Dakclaw}}

Giratina cannot represent the afterlife, as the Lake trio have been stated to represent spirit. MATTER, on the other hand, is seperate from space and time, yet does not seem to be represented by Giratina. [[User:Noname|Noname]]
:I'm not talking about MATTER, I'm talking about life. What creates life, besides spirit. Space, for things to move. Time, for things to accelerate. And a life after life...{{ani|486}}[[User:Pokemaniac102|<big>'''''Poke'''''</big>]][[User talk:Pokemaniac102|'''''Maniac''''']][[Special:Contributions/Pokemaniac102|<big>'''''102'''''</big>]]{{ani|492}} 01:51, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

::I doubt that Giratina represents life after death, but I do beleive he represents Death itself. He lives in a cemetary and is part ghost. [[User:Noname|Noname]] The afterlife would be a bit of a streach and I doubt they would do that in a pokemon game.

::::::whait you're forgetting something important. If any of you has played Ruby/Sapphire, you'll note that Rayquaza is not considered part of the wheather trio, althought it has similar attacks and base stats, and it is catchable only after the elite 4. it is later given a special role in Emerald AND THEN IT IS CONSIDERED part of it. Maybe it is what will happen with Giratina, and in the third Sinnoh game, a legend will say that Arceus created the three, as it happened in Emerald with Rayquaza who in Ruby/Sapphire is not mentioned anywhere. [[User:Hfc2x|Hfc2x]] 20:57, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Well, until then, this is pure speculation, which does not belong here. We need a template or something that states that it's only speculation, and is not canon as of yet. [[User:Vekter|Vekter]] 17:03, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Maybe Giratina is part of the trio, opposing both Palkia and Dialga. I believe it's something like this: Palkia is space, Dialga is time, and Giratina would be the ''absence'' of space/time. If it's established that Giratina is "a Pokémon from another dimension", it's very easy to understand that the concept of time is different to Giratina. Also, his signature move being "Dark Void" tells us about the concept of space (also different from ours). Anyway, let's wait for the third game. I'm quite sure they'll explore Giratina as opposed to Dialga/Palkia, or maybe some collateral effect of Arceus' creation. --[[User:Rafaelpuff|Rafaelpuff]] 20:04, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

:I agree 100% with you, but Giratina's signature move is {{m|Shadow Force}}. {{m|Dark Void}} is {{p|Darkrai}}'s signature. '''[[User:Hfc2x|hfc]][[User talk:Hfc2x|2X]]''' 03:27, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

::Since this is speculation anyway, consider this: Giratina's Shadow Force makes it "suddenly vanish", making it completely untouchable. It's possible it does this but exploiting it's absence of space and time, then the next turn it rematerializes intersecting its target, causing the damage as the solid matter (or pseudo-solid in Giratina's case) violently attempts to resolve a physical impossibility.--[[User:Zyphers|Zyphers]] 12:15, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes, sorry, my bad. I've written {{m|Dark Void}} with the ingame animation of {{m|Shadow Force}} in mind. Thanks for the correction. Now, what about the new rumours? About Giratina being the mascot of the third game? If these rumours are confirmed, I guess it's no doubt that there is a Dragon Trio. Also, Serebii.net announced that there'll be a new dual-type form to Arceus - maybe an ancient form of Arceus before he "created the Dragons from itself"? Well, anyway, this is only speculation. But I like Zyphers' theory (about Giratina's Shadow Force) very much. --[[User:Rafaelpuff|Rafaelpuff]] 17:27, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

==Dragon Trio has been officially confirmed==
At last no more speculation. People who hasn't checked Serebii.net do it. A hi-res scan of the Coro coro magazine has leaked and is available [http://serebii.net/platinum/scan.jpg here]. As you can see in the pic, cyrus is standing in front of Dialga, Palkia and the shadow of Giratina. '''[[User:Hfc2x|hfc]][[User talk:Hfc2x|2X]]''' 21:33, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
:That imaged could be faked or photoshopped......[[User:Darth Cookie Monster|C is for Cookie]] 21:37, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
::Please know that THE WHOLE THING CAN BE FAKE!•'''[[User:Pokemaniac102|Poke]][[User talk:Pokemaniac102|maniac]]102''' 21:43, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

giratina is on teh box art for pokemon platinum which has been officially announced... [[User:Arutoa|Arutoa]] 20:56, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
:Well then NOW it is conformed.•'''[[User:Pokemaniac102|Poke]][[User talk:Pokemaniac102|maniac]]102''' 20:58, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
::well then lugia ho-oh and suicune are a trio by that logic - touché! '''{{Colored link|:User:Origamiguy|808080|Origami}}{{Colored link|:User:Origamiguy|FF8000|Guy}}-{{Colored link|:User_talk:Origamiguy|808080|T}}-{{Colored link|Special:Contributions/Origamiguy|FF8000|C}}-{{Colored link|:User_talk:Origamiguy/Mudkipz|0080FF|M}}''' 11:36, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
:::Not really. The boxart proves nothing by itself, or Charizard, Blastoise, and Venusaur would be a trio. But with the other evidence shared among the members of this trio (similar typing, all half {{t|Dragon}}; similar moves at the same levels; similar origin for their names ''Dia''mond/Dialga, ''P''e''a''r''l''/Palkia, Pla''tina''/Giratina)... well it pretty much says it all. But ''until we get evidence that Arceus also made Giratina'', which is undoubtedly the case, I would say, the dragon trio technically is unconfirmed. Come September, though, the whole thing will become clear.
:::I hate to be a hardass here, but hey, we're not taking any crap when it comes to anime Pokémon's gender (even for Ash's Charizard, and that's ''honestly ridiculous'' in my mind), so no crap is taken here. This trio is almost official. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 05:04, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
::::Where is it written that trios ''have'' to have a master? That idea came more from the anime and the [[The Power of One|second movie]] than anything else. Furthermore, should we really be classifying trios of [[version mascot]]s the same way we do the honest-to-[[Arceus (Pokémon)|God]] trios (ie, the birds, the beasts, the golems, the bizzare psychic things)? I've always had a problem with that. --[[User:Martonimos|Martonimos]][[User talk:Martonimos|((Argh]]|[[Special:Contributions/Martonimos|Blargh))]] 09:51, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

== No way ==

It's not necessarily part of the trio, as a matter a fact, I think it's the leader-guy! Posted by the '''[[User:Optimus35|<sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''10:03 16 May 2008'''''
:Excuse me for asking, but what do you mean by "leader-guy"? As in leader of the "duo", or the duo and Arceus? [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 23:43, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
::I believe he thinks that Giratina is sort of the '''trio master''' of the '''duo'''. But I believe that they all are a trio only with Giratina being the strongest.•'''[[User:Pokemaniac102|Poke]][[User talk:Pokemaniac102|maniac]]102''' 14:24, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
Everybody wait for platinum instead of saying "NUH UH MY THEORY IZ BETR THAN YERZ". [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 23:49, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
:I never said anything. I just believe what I said.'''[[User:Pokemaniac102|P]][[User talk:Pokemaniac102|M]][[Dragon trio|102]]''' 00:24, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
::This is the same as the weather trio. They are a trio, but there's one that's seemingly more powerful than the other two. '''[[User:Hfc2x|hfc]][[User talk:Hfc2x|2X]]''' 00:58, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
:::Thats a good point but it would still be BETTER to JUST WAIT. [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 22:13, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

== images ==

I think the image should go back to the turnback cave 1 the new 1 does not clearly depict Giratina its a silohuette and the others are in Sprite Form.
[[User:Sailor Earth|Sailor Earth]] 20:40, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
:The new image is important, though, as it demonstrates that there is probably some sort of link between the three. I think we should have both images; that way, there'd be one for each of them on their own in DP, and one of them all together in Platinum. --[[User:Martonimos|Martonimos]][[User talk:Martonimos|((Talk))]] 21:47, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
I agree 100% [[User:Sailor Earth|Sailor Earth]] 21:49, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

== Hey... ==

Look Its a trio with it being Dialga:Time Palkia:Space Giratina: '''VOID''' with arceus being the trio master of spirit and the dragon trio. [[User:Atomix26|Atomix26]] 17:16, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

== Proof ==

Pokémon Platinum serves as proof that this is a trio similar to the weather trio. --[[User talk:Shiny Noctowl|Shiny Noctowl]] 20:59, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

:Wouldn't that be like saying Lugia, Ho-Oh and Suicune are a trio? ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 17:58, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
::Nopes. Lugia and Ho-oh are kind of a duo, and Suicune is just a version mascot. Suicune has nothing to do with Lugia and that's why they aren't a trio. In Gen III however, Groudon and Kyogre were a duo, and Rayquaza was a Pokémon that had apparently no relation to the other two (not even in its pokédex description). However in Emerald, it was revealed to be part of the trio, as it's the only one capable of stoping the effects of Kyogre and Groudon. This is exactly the same that's gonna happen with Giratina. '''[[User:Hfc2x|hfc]][[User talk:Hfc2x|2X]]''' 20:06, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

== I've been thinking about something... ==

I was watching TV one day and they said something about Time, Space and DIMENSION.
That made me think about how each of the dragon trio has a certain control over what they represent
and that Giratina has control over dimension. So wouldn't that make Giratina represent Dimension? [[User:Darkmaster0]] 20:09, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
:True. '''[[User:LugiaFan|''Lugia'']][[User talk:LugiaFan|''Rules!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"]]''' 17:05, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
::I was thinking the same. In fact I'd like to suggest renaming the trio to a more specific term like '''Reality trio''', as in time, space and dimension being the three elements of reality, though I prefer to leave it up for debate. --[[User:Kaoz|Kaoz]] 01:20, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
:Maybe it was on doctor who - TARDIS stands for {{p2|Dialga|'''Time'''}} And Relative {{p2|Giratina|'''Dimension'''}} In {{p2|Palkia|'''Space'''}}. '''{{Colored link|:User:Origamiguy|ff8000|Lord}} of {{Colored link|:User_talk:Origamiguy|ff8000|Ori}}{{Colored link|Special:Contributions/Origamiguy|ff8000|gami}}''' 12:50, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
::TARDIS Dragons, then? :) --[[User:Kaoz|Kaoz]] 13:33, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
:::LOL'''[[User:Shazaaaam|SHA]][[User_talk:Shazaaaam|ZAA]][[Special:Contributions/Shazaaaam|AAM!]]''' 13:35, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
I think that Giratina represents the NEGATIVE of Dialga and Palkia's respective dimensions, like the negative of an photograph. It's as if the negative were intertwined behind the strings of dimension, thus it having a connection, like an astral plane. [[User:TorchicBlaziken|TorchicBlaziken]] 14:20, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Somebody is misinformed here. Space is the combination OF the first three DIMENSION'''S'''. The fourth Dimension is the forward and backward directions of Time. Also, if Giratina resides in the '''Reverse'''World, then surely there should be a fourth - to oppose both Dialga and Palkia! Do I make sense?[[User:Monblazon|Monblazon]] 20:59, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

== New Table ==
I think this resolves everything:

{| border="1" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0"
|Species
| align="center"| [[Image:Spr_4d_483.png]] {{p|Dialga}} || align="center"| [[Image:Spr_4d_484.png]] {{p|Palkia}} || align="center"| [[Image:Spr_4d_487.png]] {{p|Giratina}}
|-
| Type 1
| style="background: #{{Steel color}};" | '''Steel'''-type
| style="background: #{{Water color}};" | '''Water'''-type
| style="background: #{{Ghost color}};" | '''Ghost'''-type
|-
| Type 2
| style="background: #{{Dragon color}};" | '''Dragon'''-type
| style="background: #{{Dragon color}};" | '''Dragon'''-type
| style="background: #{{Dragon color}};" | '''Dragon'''-type
|-
| Level 10
| style="background: #{{Steel color}};" | ''{{m|Metal Claw}}'' '''Steel'''-Type
| style="background: #{{Water color}};" | ''{{m|Water Pulse}}'' '''Water'''-type
| style="background: #{{Ghost color}};" | ''{{m|Ominous Wind}}'' '''Ghost'''-type
|-
| Level 40
| style="background: #{{Dragon color}};" | ''{{m|Roar of Time}}'' '''Dragon'''-type
| style="background: #{{Dragon color}};" | ''{{m|Spacial Rend}}'' '''Dragon'''-type
| style="background: #{{Ghost color}};" | ''{{m|Shadow Force}}'' '''Ghost'''-type
|-
| Level 80
| style="background: #{{Steel color}};" | ''{{m|Flash Cannon}}'' '''Steel'''-type
| style="background: #{{Water color}};" | ''{{m|Aqua Tail}}'' '''Water'''-type
| style="background: #{{Ghost color}};" | ''{{m|Shadow Claw}}'' '''Ghost'''-type
|}

'''{{Colored link|:User:Origamiguy|ff8000|Lord}} of {{Colored link|:User_talk:Origamiguy|ff8000|Ori}}{{Colored link|Special:Contributions/Origamiguy|ff8000|gami}}''' 13:23, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Talk:Arceus (Pokémon)/Archive 1

2008-08-19T21:15:26Z

Monblazon:

Um, {{u|TTEchidna}}, you put down that Arseus can become an ???-type Pokémon by holding a ??? Plate. Where'd you get that from?--[[User:Pokencyclopedia|Pokencyclopedia]] 21:35, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Man u have got to be kidding me Arceus catch rate should not be 3. I used my Action replay to get the item 4 arceus then i went and caought it on my 5th dusk ball. My friend caought it on him 1st ultra ball. Another friend i gave the item 2 caught it on his 2nd qiuck ball.
:Man, you have to be kidding me, you can't even spell the word "you" right. Arceus's catch rate is 3. If you'll notice, those balls multiply the catch rate formula by quite a bit, which greatly increases the chance to be caught. Plus, it's all on luck, I've had Magikarp break out of balls before. --'''[[User:TTEchidna|T]][[User talk:TTEchidna|T]][[wp:Echidna|Echidna]]''' 22:36, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

I added an alternative origin to Arceus's name that I found on: http://www.serebiiforums.com/showthread.php?t=286767.[[User:Draconium|Draconium]] 23:42, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

==Is there a point...==
Is there a point of having a table for each of the plates when it is attached to Arceus?
We could just have Arceus without a plate, and then have each title with an image and a sentence saying what type Arceus changes to.
For Example:

==Type effectiveness==
[[Image:493Arseus.png|thumb|right|Sprite for {{type2|Normal}} Arceus]]
===No plate equipped===
{{DP type effectiveness|
Normal= 100 |
Fighting=200 |
Flying= 100 |
Poison= 100 |
Ground= 100 |
Rock= 100 |
Bug= 100 |
Ghost= 0 |
Steel= 100 |

Fire= 100 |
Water= 100 |
Grass= 100 |
Electric=100 |
Psychic= 100 |
Ice= 100 |
Dragon= 100 |
Dark= 100 }}
[[Image:Spr 4d 493-Fire.png|thumb|right|Sprite for {{type2|Fire}} Arceus]]
===With Flame Plate===
When the Flame Plate is attached to Arceus, it becomes a Fire type.

etc... [[User:Tesh|Tesh]] 23:06, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

==Picture==
I have this picture:

[[Image:Arceus.PNG]]

I did not draw it. I want to use it on the page. It is much better than trying to stare at a tiny sprite. --[[User:Stinkoman|Stinkoman]] 15:08, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

:Better than a sprite for sure, but it'd be nice if we could find one without such bad compression artifacts. [[User:Invisible Shiny Bulbasaur|Invisible Shiny Bulbasaur]] 22:30, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
::I don't think we should really be using an unofficial image for the page. What would be nice is if somebody could get a nice, high-quality (as in NOT a photo of the monitor) screenshot of ARceus from PBR.--[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 01:22, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
:::You mean hack an Arceus and copy it into PBR?
[[Image:Psychic-attack.png|Psychic]][[Image:Ani475MS.gif]] '''[[User:Optimus35|Agent]] [[Gallade (Pokémon)|448]][[User talk:Optimus35|Talk]] | [[User:Optimus35/Diamond&Pearl|DP]]''' [[Image:Fighting-attack.png|Fighting]] 11:46, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

== Sprites? ==

Should we include separate sprite templates for all of the forms, or just do it for one? I know that Unown and Castform, among others, would serve the same problem. '''[[User:TTEchidna|T]][[User talk:TTEchidna|T]][[wp:Echidna|Echidna]]''' 22:10, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

== Art?! ==

I'd like to know the source of Arceus' picture. Mainly because it hasn't been revealed yet. TinaTheKirlia 02:44, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
:It's a piece of fanart. --[[User:DarkfireTaimatsu|DarkfireTaimatsu]] 02:47, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
::That's what I thought, although there was an edit that said "Official Art" or something and it was rather confusing. TinaTheKirlia 16:29, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
I think we should replace that art with a sprite. It seems inaccurate... Mariocaper 19:19, 20 September 2007

Yeah, and we could enlarge the size of the sprite so it won't be that tiny anymore, right? [[Image:Psychic-attack.png|Psychic]]http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/sprites/dpiconani/dpiconani475.gif '''[[User:Optimus35|Optimus35]][[User talk:Optimus35|Talk]] | [[User:Optimus35/Diamond&Pearl|DP]]''' [[Image:Fighting-attack.png|Fighting]] 06:45, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
:Enlarged sprites look terrible. --[[User:DarkfireTaimatsu|DarkfireTaimatsu]] 06:49, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
::Couldn't we get a PBR screenshot? And I mean a screenshot, not someone pointing their camera at a television? (We need that for Rosy and Sashay, too...)--[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 07:13, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
::I can't, my FRAPS only works on full screen games like Maple Story...I think we could take the Arceus photo, enlarge it and sharpen it a little, then put it back on bulba. The only problem with this is that the sprite would be oversize...
:::I hope that you have permission to use that piece of fan art. --[[Special:Contributions/Kenji-girl|☆]][[Tracey Sketchit|ケンジ]][[User:Kenji-girl|ガール]] 21:27, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
::::I've got five PBR shots. They're all in my [[User:Optimus35/Sandbox|sandbox]]. Click on the links under 'Arceus'. Tell me which one looks best on my talk page and I'll upload it onto Bulbagarden Archives...[[Image:Ani475MS.gif]] '''[[User:Optimus35|Agent]] [[User:Optimus35/Mission|4]][[User:Optimus35/Emerald|4]][[Gallade (Pokémon)|8]][[User talk:Optimus35|δ]] | [[User:Optimus35/Diamond&Pearl|DP]]''' | [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?limit=50&title=Special%3AContributions&contribs=user&target=Optimus35&namespace=0&year=&month=-1 ☆][[Image:Ani282MS.gif]] 09:01, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Change the pic!
[[User:Crystallucario|Crystallucario]] 14:54, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
:The reason why we're not changing it is because it's nicely done fanart, and it's more easier to look at this instead of a sprite.
:Otherwise it'd be absolute hell for me to draw Arceus. Still is, but certainly more easier than looking at a sprite. :p [[User:Tina|Tina]] [[Special:Contributions/Tina|δ]][[User talk:Tina|♫]] 16:40, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
hmmm maybe ok whatever...
[[User:Crystallucario|CrystalLucario 12:23, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
::...except, do we have permission to use the image? The image page doesn't seem to claim it at all, so I'm going to go ahead and guess that we're doing something illegal or at least unethical here. Seriously, why can't we just use a PBR shot?[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 00:58, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
:::Since when was pokemon ever ethical? Think about it, the aim of the game is to run away from home at 10 years old (good parenting skills mom) and after having abuse a poor little starly to the brink of death by slashing it over and over again with false swipe you throw something at it, only adding to the poor creature's pain and torture only to trap it inside a small, cramped chamber for the rest of its unnatural life whilst using it to abuse other pokemon. But anyways I digress, the point is the piece of fanart looks nice, is accurate and fits in perfectly with all the official pokemon artwork. Hell when I first visited the page I thought it WAS a piece of official artwork. A PBR snapshot would not be at all as effective as the fanart. So no, we ain't havin a PBR shot. [[User:Wikid|Wikid]] 16:20, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

::::No one is questioning the ethics of the series, just in using someone else's work without their consent. Besides, the face is drawn wrong. There should be more lines running across it. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 16:28, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Metronome ==

My Mew used Judgement through Metronome. Should I include something like this under "Trivia":

Although Nintendo is attempting to keep Arceus secret, it is possible for Arceus's signature move, {{m|Judgment}}, to be used through {{m|Metronome}}, thus potentially revealing the existence of Arceus to otherwise unaware fans.

--[[User:Shiny Noctowl|Shiny Noctowl]][[User talk:Shiny Noctowl|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Shiny Noctowl|Contribs]][[Image:Ani480MS.gif]] 20:33, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

i could draw arceus if that would help. i like drawing pokémon. [[talonclawz]] new comer!!!!!!!!!! [[Image:Ani444MS.gif‎]]

== Shishigami? ==

Should any mention of the Forest Spirit Shishigami from Miyazaki Hayao's Mononoke-Hime be mentioned in the article? Arceus seems to have a resemblance to Shishigami. In addition, on the illegal hacked Pokémon Diamond (Telefang Power), Shishigami appears on the front, despite not having anything to do with the game (that's the way those criminals work), and then in the real Pokémon Diamond, Arceus was added. Does anyone else think that some trivia should be added about this? ~Kumori Satosuke
:Outside of the whole quadrupedal thing, I don't think there's anything else that's official to suggest a connection. For example, Arceus seems to be nothing outside of a creator, while shishigami is given dominion over life and death.--[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 03:27, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
::Yes, I agree. There really isn't anything linking the two other than a vague (And I do mean VAGUE.) resemblance. --[[User:Dual|Dual]] 14:15, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

== ??? type sprite may prevent crash ==
Just a theory, but the programmers at Game Freak may have drawn and programmmed a ??? type Arceus to prevent game crashes. Anyone with a code patcher can figure out how to change a Pokémon's type. They might have figured that someone would tamper with Arceus's type, and if they changed it to a ??? type, and there was no sprite for it, the game would crash because it would try loading data that does not exist. That's my theory anyway. [[User:Fsilone|Fsilone]] 02:10, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
:That's really logical. figure that by yourself? But I still don't know if we should put that in the article.[[Image:Ani471MS.gif]][[User:Pokemaniac102|'''Poke''''''maniac''''''102''']][[Image:AniEggMS.gif]] 02:17, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

::im a little iffy on the grammer, but other than that i think its a fantastic theory and should be in the trivia section. excellent. now all i need to do is figure out how to do it myself in my game with the Action Replay... [[Image:Ani081MS.gif|35px]][[User:MAGNEDETH|MAGNEDETH]][[Image:Ani082MS.gif|35px]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|TALK]][[Image:Ani462MS.gif|35px]] 02:30, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

:::You can't - you need to edit the rom data - action replay only edits temporary and save data. Think so anyway. '''[[:User:Origamiguy|折り紙ガイ]] - [[:User_talk:Origamiguy|離す]][[:Special:Contributions/Origamiguy|貢献]]''' 15:37, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

I think I don't see anything grammatically wrong. I copied the words above and reworded it into sentences.[[Image:Ani471MS.gif]][[User:Pokemaniac102|'''Poke''''''maniac''''''102''']][[Image:AniEggMS.gif]] 02:34, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

:yea, im probibly wrong, im not joking when i say i failed english class......twice...with a 54..... [[Image:Ani081MS.gif|35px]][[User:MAGNEDETH|MAGNEDETH]][[Image:Ani082MS.gif|35px]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|TALK]][[Image:Ani462MS.gif|35px]] 03:42, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

what the heck is shishigami? is it a pokémon?(someone out there?) [[-talonclawz]] new comer!!!!! [[Image:212MS.gif]] 1:06, 5 April 2008

No. Wait a minute if you don't know that Errr...how new are you to Pokémon?[[User:Crystallucario|'''''Crystal''''']] [[User talk:Crystallucario|'''''Lucario''''']] 17:43, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

A shishigami is a Japanese god of death. [[User:LordKaien|LordKaien]] 14:51, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

== {{type2|???}} Sprite ==

[[Image:Question-Type Arceus Before.jpg|thumb|left|Before]][[Image:Question-Type Arceus After.jpg|thumb|right|After]]How long has the sprite of ???-type Arceus been pulling that vanishing act? Basically, the only time you can see the sprite is when the white background on PNG-format images is still visible, as seen in the Before shot. Once the white backgrounds vanish, the rest of the sprite should still be there. However, on ???-type Arceus, the sprite vanishes along with the background, as seen in the After shot. Is there a way to fix this?

(The shots in question come from an area of my own user page, specifically a [[Template:User Favorite Move|favorite move tag]] programmed for a ???-type move and {{m|Curse}} with the Arceus sprite in question for a laugh. The [[Template:User 2000|2000-edits in a month tag]] above it is also shown for comparison.) --[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 05:41, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

:Wow. That's weird that it just disappears! --[[Image:Spr 3e 059.gif|70px]][[Image:Spr 3e 132.gif]]'''[[User:Theryguy512|Theryguy]][[User:Theryguy512/Contribution Page|5]][[User:Theryguy512/Mission Page|1]][[User:Theryguy512/Sandbox|2]]''' [[Image:Trozeiani025.gif]] 11:59, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
I think I figured out the vanishing act. It's due to the filename. Many operating systems don't allow question marks in filenames, and it's probably due to those that caused the image to vanish. I went and uploaded an image to [[a:Image:Spr 4d 493-Unknown.png|Image:Spr 4d 493-Unknown.png]] on the archives, and that image works as it should! Every instance of the vanishing image has been changed to the one that doesn't vanish, so you won't be seeing vanishing ???-type Arceus again anytime soon. --[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 16:37, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

== Pic ==

Okay, I remember {{u|Urutapu}} saying something about a screenshot of Arceus from PBR. Well, I got a Wii ''and'' PBR for Christmas. And I have *cough*cheated*cough* four Arceuses. All I need now is a good-quality emulator that can screenshot my Wii with. Any suggestions?
--{{u|Stinkoman}}

Somehow theres a way of putting a SCART socket into your PC and running it through that. My mate's computer can do that but i think it had the socket when he bought it. [[Image:Ani258MS.gif]][[User:Origamiguy|OrigamiGuy]] Lieks [[Mudkip (Pokémon)|Mudkipz]][[Image:Ani258MS.gif]]

== Officially been revealed ==
Until this Pokemon has been officially revealed (by Nintendo or Coro Coro magazine) this page should be removed, because the only reason why there is proof of its existence is through a hacking or cheating device.
:WHAT! This page should be included on here. If it is in the Game, weather or not if it has been reaveled, it IS STILL IN THE GAME WITHOUT HAVING TO BE MADE{{Ani|493}}[[User:Darth Cookie Monster|'''C ''']]{{Ani|491}}[[User talk:Darth Cookie Monster|''' Is''']]{{Ani|426}}[[User:Darth Cookie Monster/My Story|'''for Cookie''']]{{Ani|473}}
::Yea, this page is about a Pokémon. In case you don't know (hopefully you do), this is a Pokémon encyclopedia. This page is like mandatory. --'''[[User:Theryguy512|Theryguy]][[User talk:Theryguy512|5]][[User:Theryguy512/Contribution Page|1]][[User:Theryguy512/Similarities|2]]''' 02:12, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
:::Exactly. We have pages for all Pokémon ''officially programmed into the games''. Would you come here before Deoxys was revealed and say "NUH UH THERE'S ONLY 201 IN HOENN DEOXYS IS A HAKKER ONLY POKEMAN." Arceus is official, they're just holding off on the official revelation. Besides... plenty of Pokémon from each generation were never revealed through CoroCoro or by Nintendo individually. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]][[Image:Ani155MS.gif|Fire echy]]''' 07:07, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

I may only be 10, but take it from me. Arceus is real. It is on pokemon.com's pokedex.[[User:DaPikanator56|DaPikanator56]] 18:47, 22 March 2008 (UTC){{u|DaPikanator56}}
:Well, actually, it's not on the PokéDex on [[Pokemon.com]], but yes, it is real. --'''[[User:Theryguy512|Theryguy]][[User talk:Theryguy512|5]][[User:Theryguy512/Contribution Page|1]][[User:Theryguy512/Similarities|2]]''' 13:17, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
::An example of what TTE said would be the Porygons. '''<sc>[[User:Optimus35|{{tt|Optimatum♏|Optimus35}}]]</sc>[[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|♊]]02:32 30 Mar 2008'''

Oh yeah! It and ummm... {{p|Shaymin}} I think aren't Theryguy.[[User:DaPikanator56|DaPikanator56]] 18:52, 30 March 2008 (UTC){{u|DaPikanator56}}
:Shaymin has been acknowledged by official Japanese sources. And to address the original point, we are not Wikipedia. Everyone knows that Arceus is real, so this page is a necessity. Hell, we have articles for a lot of glitch Pokémon so a real one definately passes. --[[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] [[User talk:Fabu-Vinny|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Fabu-Vinny|C]]-[[User:Fabu-Vinny/Sandbox|S]] 23:52, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

True...Oh, and by the way, in the summer I will shorten my visits here, but this place rules! It ain't demented like Chuckie Cheese's.
:) ^-^[[User:DaPikanator56|DaPikanator56]] 22:31, 3 April 2008 (UTC)DaPikanator56

==Picture==

I found this picture interesting, but low quality. [http://www.pokebeach.com/news/0507/arceus.jpg its on www.pokebeach.com] --[[User:Britannia's Blade|Britannia's Blade]] 21:25, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
:Good find, but it's already linked from the article [[Arceus (Pokémon)#External links|right here]]. --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 23:38, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

------------
I also just found this one [http://www.arkeis.com/images/pokemonfactory/arceus.png ****] Fan art of course but very serious looking, Lots more like it [http://www.arkeis.com/legendaries.htm here] what do you think? --[[User:Britannia's Blade|Britannia's Blade]] 18:47, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
:I don't see how fanart is very notable to put up here.. >_> [[User:Tina|Tina]] [[Special:Contributions/Tina|δ]][[User talk:Tina|♫]] 19:06, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
::The one we have right now will do us until Arcy is revealed next year. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 20:37, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
:::What about this one? - [http://www.pokebeach.com/news/0507/arceus2.jpg (1)] '''[[:User:Origamiguy|折り紙ガイ]] - [[:User_talk:Origamiguy|離す]][[:Special:Contributions/Origamiguy|貢献]]''' 15:45, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
::::-Gasp- Why not that one! Ooo, take it! TAKE IT!!! '''[[User:Optimus35|<sc>Optimatum</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''13:53 2 May 2008'''''
TTE, Arceus isn't going 2 be revealed 4 two years yet. [[User:LordKaien|LordKaien]] 14:53, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

==Arceus and Giratina==
Aren't Arceus and Giratina sort of opposites of each other because Arceus is God and Giratina is the devil sort of, I mean Arceus didn't create Giratina so that means they were the two entities before time started. [[User:Big Johnno|Pokémon Master]] 17:46 15 May 2008
:Maybe you're right, but i think that Giratina is part of the Dragon Trio. [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 23:37, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
::Giratina is the BOSS! It saved the two other Pokamon! Posted by the '''[[User:Optimus35|<sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''01:04 17 May 2008'''''
:Hold on, there's no reason to get angry. Why can't we just WAIT until Arceus is officially revealed? Isn't that BETTER than argueing? [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 23:37, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

In my eyes it would be

Dialga + Palkia = Rivals (Time VS Space)

Giratina + Arceus = Rivals (God VS Darkness?)

So yeah, regardless of the fact Giratina is part of the Dragon Trio.
(''Thinking about it, those four are exactly the same as my characters |: Lily = Controls Time. Darkness = Controls Space. Akito = Controls Death. Rose = Controls Life/Is a sort-of God. But anyway, my characters are irrelevant too this xD'') [[User:Takoto|Takoto タコト]]| サソデイ = 愛 14:37, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
:So, Arceus is God/JesusHoly Spirit, and Giratina is Satan? O.O It's Da '''[[User:Optimus35|<sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''06:03 26 May 2008'''''
::Arceus is Arceus. Giratina is Giratina. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 07:02, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
:::Meh, that's the Atheist way of seeing it. Hey, wait, am I about to be stone for being anti-atheist? Damn. It's Da '''[[User:Optimus35|<sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''07:13 26 May 2008'''''
::::I didn't say Giratina was Satan, i simply said he was...darkness. [[User:Takoto|Takoto タコト]]| サソデイ = 愛 02:05, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
My question is, how do you KNOW Giratina is bad, or if Arceus is even good? How do you KNOW Giratina wasn't created by Arceus? You don't. Besides, Neither ot them are from Christianity, and U know what? I'm a devout Christian and I don't care if Arceus wasn't based off of my God. [[User:LordKaien|LordKaien]] 14:56, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
:Does anybody want to see it this way, "WE SHOULD ALL JUST WAIT"? [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 22:06, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
::I don't think Giratina is evil. You don't have too be evil/whatever to control darkness/whatever Giratina controls. I do not think Giratina is evil! [[User:Takoto|Takoto タコト]]| サソデイ = 愛 22:22, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
:Is this text INVISIBLE? WE SHOULD ALL JUST WAIT! [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 00:28, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

== More sprites ==

Ok, so we have all the type sprites for Arceus and it's shiny sprite, but we don't have shiny forms for Arceus' other types. Could someone please tell me if it's possible to get those sprites and if so get them for us? [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 12:08, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
:If i could, i would, but i can't, so i can't help you. I'm not even 100% sure Arceus's other-type sprites HAVE shiny versions of them :| [[User:Takoto|Takoto タコト]]| サソデイ = 愛 14:27, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
::They do. And a simple method is to color the sprites the right color. The white portion of the body is the only part which remains constant throughout the non-shiny forms. and when it becomes shiny, the rings are the same color as those of the non-shiny ones. The only thing that differs between non-shiny and shiny is the white portion, which turns yellow. It's Da '''[[User:Optimus35|<sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''06:01 26 May 2008'''''
:So... could you do that for us as a favor? [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 22:02, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
::I might have those sprites on my computer somewhere. Want me to upload them? [[User:Yinyang1195|Yin]][[User talk:Yinyang1195|Yang]] 20:05, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
:::I don't see why not other than you apperently not knowing where they are. And someone PLEASE get rid of that fan artwork, it's unofficial up here! [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 22:58, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
::::Helloooooooooooooooo, its been 2 weeks. Are you going to respond? [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 19:00, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
::::HURRY UP ALREADY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 15:49, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

== Metronome and Judgement ==

If a player knows nothing about Arceus, how would they know that Judgement is its signature attack? Even if it is used by a Pokémon using Metronome. So could Metronome really spoil the surprise? ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 02:50, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
:Not really. ^^; Metronome can do ANYTHING. Even Explosion so...'''[[User:Optimus35|It's the <sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''02:54 4 Jun 2008'''''
::Well, if they were like "Ooh, what learns that?!" and can't find anyone, they'll suspect it to be some crazy legendary not yet shown. And have lived under a rock since EVERYONE KNOWS OF ARCEUS. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 03:03, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
:::Hmm, then Singapore must be under a rock. Only two people I know know what's Arceus, that includes me. '''[[User:Optimus35|It's the <sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''03:12 4 Jun 2008'''''
::::Or this is nintendo's way of teasing us. kinda like,
Player:"What pokémon learns this?"
Nintendo:"Wait and see"
Player:"You suck."[[User:LordKaien|LordKaien]] 12:39, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

I only ask because of this quote in the trivia:

"''Although Nintendo is attempting to keep Arceus secret, it is possible for Arceus's signature move, Judgment, to be used through Metronome, thus potentially revealing the existence of Arceus to otherwise unaware fans.''"

Plus, Nintendo ''has'' to know that the majority of their fanbase uses the internet. Every Pokémon website except the "official" ones have info on Arceus. A lot of them even before the games were released globally. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 15:57, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
:The majority of the fanbase are kids who don't necessarily visit fansites. --[[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] |[[User talk:Fabu-Vinny|Talk Page]]| 16:02, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
::No ([[User:MathijsP|MathijsP]] 16:03, 4 June 2008 (UTC))
:::Yes. --[[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] |[[User talk:Fabu-Vinny|Talk Page]]| 16:04, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
::::No ([[User:MathijsP|MathijsP]] 16:05, 4 June 2008 (UTC))

:::::I would have to disagree with that statement. I believe that most fans may have been kids at the beginning when Pokémon first came out, but now have grown as the series has. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 16:18, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

A similar thing happened to me when I was playing PBR. I ordered my Togepi to use Metronome and out came Judgment. I wondered what Pokémon used this move until I checked this site and I found Arceus. I didn't even know about its existence AT ALL when Metronome was used that one year ago... {{ani|385}}[[User:BlueJirachi|BlueJirachi]] 18:01, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

== Arceus's pattern in the anime? ==

I didn't get a second look (mainly because I deleted the episode from my DVR), but I heard in the episode "Journey to the Unknown!" that Saturn was holding a cube with Arceus's pattern on it... [[User:ShinyRayquaza|ShinyRayquaza]] 19:35, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

== Arceus + Sky Plate? ==

If you attach a Sky Plate to Arceus, wouldn't that make it become the first pure Flying-type Pokémon? [[User:Wynautluvr|Wynautluvr]] 16:53, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

:It is the first "permanent" pure Flying-type. The Porygon line can become Flying-types with their Conversion moves, and Kecleon can with its Color Change Ability. These Pokémon, however, revert back to Normal when the battle is over. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 18:56, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

::It's not permanent, in that you can change the plate and it loses the pure-flying status... '''[[:User:Origamiguy|Lord]] of [[:User_talk:Origamiguy|Ori]][[Special:Contributions/Origamiguy|gami]]''' 15:16, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
:::It's permanent in that it doesn't go away just because the battle ends. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 21:46, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
::::No its not. Its only a permanent flying type if its natural type (i.e. no plate) is flying. You might as well say its also the first permamnent ??? type since it can become that (potentially) too.[[User:Wikid|Wikid]] 16:43, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

:::::If you never remove the plate, then it's permanent. Plus, you can't obtain a ???-type Arceus in-game in any normal fashion. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 16:45, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

:::::: Says you. firstly, the word permanent implies that the typing can never be changed. If you unequip the plate Arceus goes back to normal therefore it's not permanent. At best I would say its semi-permament. Secondly, there might a ??? plate given out at an event or found somewhere in platinum like Glacidia's flower. ??? forme arceus might be the result when you enter the torn world with arceus. It might even be what Arceus looks like when it is a shadow pokemon as there might be a new game coming out to do with shadow pokemon and DPP might be the first generation where you can trade shadow pokemon over. Therefore if you can trade it as shadow poke between DP and platinum then there is a way to get an ??? forme Arceus in a normal fashion.[[User:Wikid|Wikid]] 17:21, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Fine. "Semi-permanent". ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 17:24, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== The ??? Plate ==

The ??? Plate exists, It is named mysterious plate by CodeJunkies, It may also be encountered in the underground as a Malfunction, people got this (like my brother) and attached it to ARCEUS, making the ??? type, no weaknesses are found on this type--[[User:M.vit|M.vit]] 00:10, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
:Believe me, people code-spelunk like there's no tomorrow...there isn't such thing.--[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 00:10, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

can M.vit at least tell how did his brother encounter such a plate, and how does it function with other Pokémon?and what happens to a Pokémon who knows the move [[curse]]

can somebody edit this article . It says that Arceus creted the Pokémon Universe,''Dragon trio'' and lake trio. Till now the dragon trio isn't officially confirmed. so whether I or somebody else should change the Dragon trio to the time-space duo: Dialga and Palkia.--[[User:Nobody777|Nobody777]] 13:56, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

well, seems that nobody is out of topic, BTW, i have seem to find this code in Code Junkies here it is
Mysterious Plate x999
94000130 fcff0000
b21c4d28 00000000
b0000004 00000000
00000890 03e70133
d2000000 00000000--[[User:M.vit|M.vit]] 16:55, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

:The plates all have different names on CodeJunkies which are the translated Japenese names. I believe the Mysterious Plate is actually the Mind Plate. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 17:13, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
::Your right, it is the mind plate. '''{{Colored link|:User:Origamiguy|ff8000|Lord}} of {{Colored link|:User_talk:Origamiguy|ff8000|Ori}}{{Colored link|Special:Contributions/Origamiguy|ff8000|gami}}''' 16:45, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

==type change==

Keckleons ability color change changes its type according to the move done by the opponent so if ???-type arceus used judjement, will it change its type? can anyone experiment?--[[User:Nobody777|Nobody777]] 13:21, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

:The fact that you can't get a ??? plate makes it difficult to say. I have no idea what would happen...♪♪[[User:ShinyPachirisu|Shiny]] [[User Talk:ShinyPachirisu|Pachirisu]] :) ♪♪ 13:23, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

::???-type moves have been hacked and have no effect. So Kecleon would probably be unaffected. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 13:39, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
:::Actually, they do have an effect... they just deal minimal damage. Lemme see what it does in Gen III later on... '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 23:41, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Pal Park]] ==

Will it really freeze the game when you put Arceus infront of the party and bla bla bla to the Pal Park?
[[User:Palkia38|Palkia38]] 03:48, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

== Now... ==

Isn't what I did so freaking cool? I mean, look at it. And the best thing is that it is totally dependent on the ''exact second'' that you save/access the page. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 07:32, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
:A fine template, indeed. Would it be useful to use something like this to generate random examples in paragraphs?
:P.S.: What you did (a calculation based on a clock) is even a good idea for a new ability or move in the game that picks a random type. --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 07:53, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
::Now if we only had the backsprites for the various forms...--[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 22:49, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
:::Two clock-based calculations would make it even more random. Watch this. {{#expr: ({{#time: U}} div {{#time: s}}) mod 9002}} {{#ifexpr: (({{#time: U}} div {{#time: s}}) mod 9002) > 9000|<big>'''← IT'S OVER 9000!!!'''</big>}}
:::As for random examples... hmm... Well, what are you thinking?
:::And I wish for the backsprites, too... And the minisprite, does it change with Arceus? '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 22:58, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

==Arceus in My Pokémon Ranch==
For a fact,someone in the German forum BisaBoard got Arceus as one of the daily Pokémon!This person was -like me- totally dumbfounded and opened that thread to know more about this phenomena.
I've asked some expert in the same message board if this would be really possible.To my surprise,he said that he checked the programme code and Arceus is really included!I think this MUST be put into the Trivia section.[[User:Uxie legend|Uxie legend]]

:How does one check the program code of a Wii Ware title? And of course Arceus would be there, it can be deposited just like any other Pokémon. Plus, I ''doubt'' that Hayley will trade you an Arceus... ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 16:02, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

::Might be wrong, but I believe there is a set list of Pokémon Hayley will only trade off, which was found and released in dr_nza's FAQ found [http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/wii/file/943658/53074 here]. The Pokémon Hayley brings are random, so I guess Arceus is a possibility, but Hayley won't be able to trade it off. - [[User:Legotim|█╬▓◘ ’M █╚▓█ (ţś_łєğǿŧΐм)]] [[User talk:Legotim|spreche]] 05:06, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

==Hmmm....==
Should we add that Arceus is the most hacked Pokemon? Every hacker I know owns a Arceus ''and'' all its plates. [[User:Strong Intelligent|Strong Intelligent]]
:No. tc26 14:03, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
::I own all the plates too. I got them underground. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 22:46, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

:::I spent so much time underground that I have more than one of each plate. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 03:22, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

== Church? ==

{{u|Sui}} keeps adding an external link to "The Church of Arceus." I'm wondering whether or not this is notable enough, or if it's just an advertisement for an obscure fansite. I don't know anything, so you guys be the judges. --[[User:Martonimos|Martonimos]][[User talk:Martonimos|((Argh]]|[[Special:Contributions/Martonimos|Blargh))]] 21:59, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

== Ūber? ==

If [[Arceus]] isn't offically reveiled, how can it be called Ūber? Can't spell.

☆ShinyPiKa 19:17, 8 August 2008 (UTC)☆
:Well, some people hack into their games and can get Arceus that way. So they know that way. ...I really dunno [[User:Takoto|Takoto タコト]]| サソデイ = 愛 19:22, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

::His stats put him in the league of the strongest Pokemon of all, so he's safe to call that. [[User:Toastypk|'''''~Toastypk''''']] - [[User_Talk:Toastypk|'''Loom.''']] 19:28, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

::: Although that is true, it isn't revealed yet so it can't be under that catagory '''yet'''. It's been annoying me, please remove it. ShinyPiKa 19:58, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

:::It's being used, and people are able to--gasp, shocker--read its stats! And, since its stats (and movepool, for that matter) are pretty decent, it can be classified as "uber," despite it being revealed or not. --'''[[User:Gabbie|gabbie]]''' | '''[[User_talk:Gabbie|talk]]''' 21:07, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

:::: But people still use Arceus on Wi-Fi. Darkrai and Shaymin were in and are still in the UBER tier so why should Arceus be any different?--[[User:Blazevoir|Blaz]][[User talk:Blazevoir|evoir]] 20:59, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

::::: Because it hasn't been revealed yet !!! :D ShinyPiKa 22:23, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
::::::You cant use Arceyus in the battle tower. [[User:MathijsP|MathijsP]] 09:30, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
::::::: Please remove [[Arceus]] from the Ūber secion 4 now, when its reveaaled u can add it back.ShinyPiKa 15:00, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
:::::::: Why? Every other website considers it ÜBER. Why should Bulba be any different?--[[User:Blazevoir|Blaz]][[User talk:Blazevoir|evoir]] 15:08, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::Because people think Nintendo will kill us for actually taking note of their stuff before they officially reveal them. Unlike Platinum's existence before May 15, though, it can be proven that Arceus exists. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 17:21, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Arceus vs. Mew ==

This is all that Mew's Pokédex entries say:

*Because it can use all kinds of moves, many scientists believe Mew to be the ancestor of Pokémon.
*Mew is said to possess the genetic composition of all Pokémon.
*Because it can learn any move, some people began research to see if it is the ancestor of all Pokémon.

First off, this kind of stuff didn't appear until Silver. Second off, it is ''very'' couched in uncertainty, and it is ''never'' said that its actually been shown to possess every type of DNA - ''only that its ability to perform any move has generated that rumor''.

Second off, several Pokémon are completely artificial, such as {{p|Grimer}}/{{p/Muk}}, {{p|Castform}}, or {{p|Porygon}}/{{p|Porygon2}}/{{p|Porygon-Z}}. So, how could Mew be considered their "ancestor", or have their DNA, if its supposed to be the "first Pokemon"? Wouldn't having the DNA of Pokemon who appeared completely separate from any genetic lineage instead imply Mew was their descendant?

Porygon is even said to be "A Pokémon that consists entirely of programming code." So, no DNA at all, and its upgrades are said to simply have had AI installed.

Even allowing for the monstrously egregious interpretations of genetics in the series, the idea that having all the DNA of a group makes you its ancestor is hogwash - its entirely the other way around.

Now, lets look at Arceus, and its info.
*It is told in mythology that this Pokémon was born before the universe even existed.
*It is described in mythology as the Pokémon that shaped the universe with its 1,000 arms.
* "Two beings of time and space set free from the Original One."
* "Three beings were born to bind time and space."
* "Two make matter and three make spirit, shaping the world."
* "The Original One breathed alone before the universe came."

Now, this is ''much'' more explicit than the Mew bit '''ever''' was. It makes it absolutely clear that Arceus came ''before even the universe itself, much less other Pokémon'', and that it in fact created the world and life itself. Once could claim that this is uncertain do to its status as "mythology", but that would be hilariously in denial of how the series has used mythology so far - as an origin story, not as something by definition uncertain or false.

How is there even a dispute about this? If it's a retcon at all, it's a fairly small one - it was clear from the beginning that the bit about Mew being the origin had a contradictory explanation.

Now, what could work is that Mew is supposed to be god-like like Arceus and other Legendaries - in this case, it would logically be some scion of life, which would in fact explain its design. If the bit about Mew containing all other DNA turned out to be "true", in the context of the franchise, then this would also make much more sense than the pseudo-scientific jargon used in Silver - Mew contains the DNA because it is the ultimate personification of life/birth, and the scientists are trying to force a contradictory explanation for the oddity in order to deny its true, supernatural origin.

So can we please stop claiming things like the D/P Pokedex "still stating that it's the ancestor of all pokémon", or that "it's no different than people believing Arceus is the creator"? [[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 06:14, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
:Creationism vs science? In my Pokémon? It's more likely than you think! '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 06:30, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

::ummm... "Uncertain", If I recall correctly, it can learn "Transform", which, unless I'm mistaken, involves the recombination of it's own DNA to match said pokemon that transforms. And, since Ditto's Pokédex entry hints that how it transforms involves it recombining it's DNA to match the pokémon it's trying to match, the same can easily be said for Mew. So, really, considering how it knows transform, and it can transform into a lot of pokémon, even legendaries that were supposedly created before it, it still has merit in regards to having the DNA of all pokémon, and thus being the ancestor of all pokémon.

::As for the Porygon/2/z example, considering the mere fact that Mew can transform into these three pokémon DESPITE apparantly not having their DNA, I think that those Pokémon have a miniscule amount of Mew's DNA (otherwise, how can Ditto [Or mew, for that matter] transform into them?].). Besides, just because they are composed entirely of AI (whether it's the free will kind or not doesn't matter) doesn't mean it can't have DNA. Take the Mega Man series (specifically, the Mega Man X subseries through the Mega Man ZX series.), the Reploids were mentioned to be complete Machines (all derived from X's design), and yet the games also mentions that they have DNA (Reploid "DNA" was used to form the Nightmare Virus, and also revive Necromances III, Harumachine, Blizzard Staggoff, and Copy X. Plus, Axl's ability involves him mimicking his enemies (and in the case of Command Mission and [Technically] ZX advent, even bosses.).

::And anyways, Mew can also transform into Grimer, Muk, and Castform, which, if Mew didn't have their DNA, then how can Mew OR Ditto even transform into them?

::Also, about it's pokedex entries, both of them contradict themselves. I mean, one says that it was born before the universe existed, and yet, the other hints that it was born a little while AFTER the Universe was created, and that all IT did was merely "shape" the universe. Plus, it doesn't even HAVE 1,000 arms in its sprite, and not only that, but It also apparantly can't even learn any attacks involving arms, such as all of the punch variants.

::as for the origin book, that ALSO doesn't mention Giratina (yet, anyways, for all we know, Platinum could add it in.), and plus, that same thing hinted that Dialga and Palkia are two halves of Arceus, but then, why cant they merge together (I mean, Dragon Quest, and Mephiles the Dark could do it without much trouble from programming data, so why cant D/P)?

::and anyways, the legends also hinted that Legendaries can't be captured by mere mortals, yet most of the crime syndicates, the Pyramid King and even the protagonist has been wielding these pokemon as if they were nothing.

::That's my ruling as to how the thing isn't retconned (well, that, as well as the fact that, if it was, then wouldn't they have removed the entry from the Pokédex?) [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 10:49, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

lets remember that game physics are different from animé physics. Dialga, Palkia and giratina symbolise physics of the Pokémon world: time, space and dimensions,so if Arceus is the master of them that wouldn't make sense:creationism and science don't go together. Mew can transform its appearance, but not the nature or unique functions of a Pokémon, and if we follow good sense we can also say that it can't copy Pokémon which evolved in a special way because their not ''original'' like trading its bioligical fusion of item and Pokémon DNA.--[[User:Nobody777|Nobody777]] 12:40, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

:I'm pretty sure that it can copy even those that evolved in a "special" way in even the Anime. Remember, Weavile evolves from Sneasel via the Sharp Claw item, which also fits under the special way, and despite that, Mew STILL transformed into that pokemon in the Lucario Movie. If it can evolve through something like that, I'm pretty certain that it is even ancestral to those pokemon who evolve via special means. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 13:50, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
:::Wait, '''''what?''''' You're saying that ''because it can do something that '''Ditto''' can do'', it must be the ancestor of all Pokemon? Wouldn't this also require Ditto to be the ancestor of all Pokemon?
:::'''Porygon''': Then you are making up things contradictory to the established in-game facts in order to force in your own fan-theory. Almost every Pokedex entry for the Porygon line reiterates that they have NOTHING but programming code.
:::'''MegaMan X''': It is never, ''ever'' stated that the robots are "completely mechanical" - that they have souls, DNA, and can merge with living things pretty much makes that theory impossible. DNA is a very specific thing - it's ''not'' a general concept about information derivation, it's a ''specific organic acid''.
:::'''Axl''': His ability has NOTHING to do with DNA, and is never claimed to. It's essentially analogous to what Transformers do.
:::'''Muk''': I didn't say that Mew didn't necessarily possess the DNA of all creatures, though that's not the only way to copy them. I said that claiming this meant it was the ancestor was so completely ignorant of evolution and genetics that it deserves ridicule.
:::However, Ditto is able to copy them because it is an amoeba, and can change the shape of its body at will. To be fair, it is ''once'' said to be able to copy the opponent's genetic code - which would only work AFTER seeing the opponent. As that is EXACTLY how Transform is described anyway, that theory is blown out of the water.
:::'''Arceus' Pokedex''': This is a bald-faced lie. The pokedex entries in no way claim that Arceus came to be after the Universe existed - at best, they claim he came before it, created it, and shaped it.
:::'''Arms''': Have you considered the fact that it could have lost them, or given them up? It is the only Arceus in existence, by the very necessity of its being, so its not going to be something like "They're all born without the arms". It "set free" all those legendaries from itself - maybe it made them from its arms, like so '''very''' many Creation Myths, ''especially the linked Pangu one''.
:::You could also consider that "1000" is often used in Japanese writing to mean "many", instead of a specific number, and as the trios of matter and spirit are considered extensions of Arceus, they could be its "appendages" in a spiritual sense. Seriously, that part of its Pokedex isn't contradictory ''at all''.
:::'''Merge''': What does this have to do with ''anything''? Why would Dragon Quest have any bearing on this?
:::'''Legends''': In the games? No, the legends don't claim that, so the fact that certain legendaries fight with trainers is not contradictory, regardless of your false assertion that it's "like nothing". In the anime, where the legends imply that messing with them is incredibly dangerous to the natural order...well, I'll just let you watch the movies, or something, and try to claim that it's "like nothing".
:::'''Remove''': Why would it be removed? It never claimed anything that was '''false''' - again, '''''it only claims that fictional scientists have a tenuous, uncertain belief based on one of its abilities'''''. The deliberate uncertainty of the Pokedex entries, in contrast to nearly every other Pokedex entry, even for Legendaries, has to be considered. If it's not simply a monstrous misunderstanding of genetics on the game designer's part, then it's almost certainly meant to be a reference to "Supernatural vs. Naturalist science".
::::''"If it can evolve through something like that, I'm pretty certain that it is even ancestral to those pokemon who evolve via special means."''
:::Again, this is inherently contradictory. If these are supposed to be new Pokemon, who only came into existence through a modern item, how could Mew possibly be said to already contain their DNA just because it can ''copy their form''? Remember, Porygon is said to be completely artificial, not an accident like Muk or Grimer.
::::''"lets remember that game physics are different from animé physics. Dialga, Palkia and giratina symbolise physics of the Pokémon world: time, space and dimensions,so if Arceus is the master of them that wouldn't make sense:creationism and science don't go together."'''
:::If Arceus is their master, then that would be in-game science. Science is the pursuit of ''truth'', not the pursuit of purely-materialistic explanations whether it's the truth or not.
:::Also, Giratina would symbolize the afterlife, or some other term for "The Other", not dimensions - "space", in the concept referred to by the triad, would necessarily contain dimensions already, parallel or measurable.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 05:46, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
::::I'm not SAYING that Ditto necessarily IS the ancestor, I only brought it into the picture since it's the only OTHER pokemon to know Transform. And besides which, the Pokédex entry for Ditto explicitly stated that it can transform by rearranging it's Genetic Structure (in other words, it's DNA) to that of it's target. It ALSO replicates their move set and, unless I'm mistaken, even their stats and natures.
::::actually, the Pokedex contradicted ITSELF in that case. I mean, if it doesn't have ANY DNA, then Ditto (not to mention Mew) couldn't transform into it OR it's family, and we all know that it can. Try and get a ditto, and try to face off against Porygon or it's family members in your games, and use transform against it if you don't believe me.
::::Ahem... when I said "Mega Man X" I mean from the Mega Man X saga ALL THE WAY to Mega Man ZX saga. In Mega Man Zero 4: ''Intro: The Reploids... They were robots designed to look like humans... these '''technical marvels''' were given unique personalities and were intended to be the perfect workers and the perfect partners of mankind...'' Later, Dr. Weil says something that would hint at Reploid being COMPLETELY mechanical. This is when Zero encounters him at the Ragnarōk core: Dr. Weil: ''Justice!? Freedom!? Worthless ideals! '''You Reploids are Just Machines, but you started a war a long time ago in the name of freedom!''' And Humans! Look what they did to me! Driving Me away while spurting the word "Justice!"'' And don't assume that he knows nothing about Reploid Physiology since he worked on reviving Reploids prior to his banishment from Neo Arcadia, and besides which, the reason why he was banished was because he created Dark Elf and augmented Zero's original body to become the horrific Omega, as well as instigated the Elf Wars. That shows that he knows quite a LOT about Reploids.
::::as for Axl, it was indeed DNA. in fact, Model A, whose personality (as well as his abilities and the form that Grey/Ashe take on when Megamerging with Model A) is clearly Based off of Axl, and would have easily been labeled as a reincarnation of Axl if Master Albert didn't say that it was actually "Model Albert". Heck, after beating Buckfire in the game, he explicitly mentions that he absorbed Buckfire's DNA, which would allow Grey/ashe to transform and utilize his abilities at will.
::::It also mentioned that Mew possessed the DNA of all Pokémon, though (and anyways, just saying that it "possesses the Genetic code for "pokémon" pretty much implies ALL Pokemon.). And that's what I was saying about Transform the whole time. I mean, Ancestors have to have the DNA of ALL Pokémon to actually be labeled as an Ancestor of all pokémon.
::::As for the Arceus entry, the way Pearl's Pokedex entry was worded made it seem as though it Shaped the universe as soon as it was born. And anyways, the Origin Myth implied that Arceus was the creator of the universe, whileas Pearl's Dex entry stated that it merely shaped it.
::::How can a god lose arms? I mean, Did Ares become one-armed? No, he didn't, and he has fought several wars where something like Decapitation or losing some part of limbs can be considered inevitable, esp. during his time.
::::Lets see, because the Origin thing mentioned that Dialga and Palkia are two halves of Arceus, and, if they were truly two halves of the same being, then having them both in your party would gain you a new arceus. but it doesn't.
::::Let's see, because only the Crime syndicates, the Hero/ine, and in one case, a BF leader, was able to capture legendaries. Also, in the Anime, the only time that the legendaries actually CAUSED a natural imbalance was in "Pokemon 2000", which even THEN, it was hinted that it was actually caused by territorial disputes rather than because it was captured in and of itself. most of the other movies and anime related things that featured legendaries didn't have the legendaries causing all Hades to break loose right when they were captured. Besides, as common in many mythos, A god simply cannot be captured by Mortals.
::::Because, if they didn't HAVE DNA, then Mew and Ditto CAN'T transform, since the move Transform requires the Genetic Code of a pokémon. Besides, that was directed at the guy who said that those who evolve via trades and items can't be related to Mew.
::::No, it's in game Mythology. The Origin story is nothing more than one big myth.
::::And yet it's constantly implied that Giratina is listed among Dialga and Palkia.
::::Anyways, that's all for now. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 11:25, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
::'''Ditto''': Your logic was that, because it can use Transform, it must be the ancestor. Either this implies that Ditto is also the ancestor (a contradiction), or you need to not make such claims. Its inherently self-contradictory.
::While Ditto's profile ''does'' sometimes say that it '''copies''' (not already possesses) the opponent's genetic code, it also says that it is "Capable of reorganizing its cells to transform into an exact duplicate of its enemy. It is usually a shapeless blob.", and that it can transform to resemble a rock. It is explicitly clear from the Pokedex entries, the description of Transform, and how Ditto is presented in the series, that it is merely ''reshaping it's '''own''' genetic code to '''resemble''' something else''. Because, as we all know, ROCK's DON'T HAVE DNA.
::The description of Transform, and how Ditto uses it, does ''not'' require that the opponent has DNA, only that Ditto does. ''Please keep this in mind''.
::The definition of "machine" does not require that something be purely inorganic in nature, and neither of the quotes you provided really even claims anything near that. Weil's quote, in that case, is emotional, and almost certainly pointing out his view that Reploid's are inferior and by nature servants of humans. This is the view used by ''all'' the villains in the Zero series, and is actually a ''huge'' part of the conflict. Play the games again.
::'''Axl''': No, it's not DNA. It's never said to be DNA. It's said to be a special ability of his, to transform his body. Model A, while designed to be a callback to Axl, is NOT Axl. However, I grant you that the Shittenou are said to have been derived from X's DNA. As Reploids are ''never'' said to be completely mechanical, and DNA is only mentioned as belonging to X and the Shittenou (notice that in ZX, Reploids and organics ''have been combined anyway'' - play the game again), it doesn't support your claim that something purely mechanical or programmed can still have DNA.
::'''Ancestor'': No, it says that some scientists ''claim'' that based on its abilities. '''You need to get that through your head''', and stop claiming that the Pokedex outright claims these things. You should also learn that your concept of "ancestry" is completely, utterly flawed, with no basis in any kind of genetics, and absolutely ridiculous. I'm sorry to be so harsh, but it's outright folly. That's NOT how an ancestor would be determined.
::'''Pearl''': You are again twisting or inserting things into the Pokedex that are not there in order to fit your views.
::'''Arms''': Hephaestus. Hercules. Pangu. Ymir. Odin. Please, think before spouting - gods are ''very'' prone to lose parts of their bodies.
::'''Halves''': First off, it doesn't. It claims they are two parts of Arceus. There is ''no basis'' in science ''or'' mythology for what you claim - Pangu and Ymir don't suddenly come back just because all the pieces are there. Two halves of an apple don't rejoin to a full apple just because they are there.
::'''Capture''': Pokemon 2000, in which the sea itself sprung forth, Pokemon the Movie, in which the world almost drowned, Pokemon 3, in which UNOWN nearly crystallized the earth, Pokemon 4Ever, in which messing with Celebi caused the forest to become a rampaging monster, Jirachi Wishmaker, in which messing with Jirachi caused the earth to come alive as a rampaging monster, Rise of Darkrai, in which Dialga and Palkia being disturbed nearly rent apart time and space...nearly every movie follows this format. Don't be so dense. Why would the world ''immediately'' come apart, anyway? If you removed the moon, it would still take some time for the seas to destabilize. As for your assertion that gods cannot be captured - you clearly have no knowledge of mythology. Such a thing is rife throughout Norse, Greek, Roman, Chinese, Japanese, Native American, African....nearly every mythology has such a thing happen. Only Abrahamic religions, where the ''sole'' God has absolute power and absolute perfection, has a deity invulnerable to human effort.
::'''New Pokemon''': First off, I didn't say all new Pokemon didn't have DNA, only that some of these included Pokemon who are explicitly said to be purely artificial. Second off, ''you really need to actually look stuff up before claiming things'' - your claims about, well, damn near everything in this discussion have almost no basis in what the game's have actually said. Transform requires the USER's DNA to be changed to cause the USER to resemble the opponent. There is no intake of DNA, and it would be ridiculous to claim that Ditto already has a databank of all DNA (remember, it can turn into Ash - is Ditto Ash's ancestor?)
::...it would be mythology (a story which explains the origin of the world) AND science (an experimentally fact-checked story which explains an empirical truth). Mythology is ''not'' equivalent to "lies and untruths".
::'''Giratina''': ...um, yeah. Which is why I explained that it can't represent something ruled by one of the others.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 22:37, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
:::As I said in my previous post, I wasn't implying that Ditto is the ANCESTOR (I only brought it into the picture because it's the only pokémon aside from Mew to learn Transform. Did I SAY that Ditto was the ancestor of all pokemon? no, I didn't.).
:::And that's why I differentiated between Mew and Ditto, see, Ditto needed to copy the DNA, yet it is hinted repeatedly even in DP that Mew's DNA contains all of Pokemon (more than just moves, also stats and typings to a certain extent [I.E. Transform]. Heck, it can even utilize Judgement if it wanted to (Not by move tutor's of course, but definitely via Metronome.). That's what makes Mew the ancestor. Besides, there's more to being an ancestor than just being there first. You must ALSO be genetically related. I'm not going into the DP thing since you're obviously missing the idea.
:::Ok, I'l agree with the Norse gods (though to be fair, it wasn't caused by Mortals), but Hercules was a half god, meaning, he can still be mutilated significantly by mortals with visible scarring.
:::Ok, I already covered Pokemon 2000, and the Unown weren't TRUE Legendary Pokemon. Also, The only thing caused by the capture of Celebi was the forest pokemon being POed, that Mecha didn't count since Iron Masked marauder made that mech. All Celebi did was just act as the core. Heck, Ask Blackjack Palazzo if you don't believe me, since she also mentioned that as well. I'll acknowledge Jirachi, though. As for the Rise of Darkrai, Humans weren't even responsible for Dialga and Palkia fighting, they just met when they ended up in a bad mood. Also, Mewtwo tried to do those actions to try and earn the right to exist (though most of that was eliminated from the Dub, sadly.). As for what you stated, if gods CAN be captured by mere mortals, EXPLAIN why Pirithous couldn't even capture Persephone without having his own butt stuck on a bench for all of eternity?! Heck, name one story where Zeus or any of the PURE gods were captured by mere mortals and forced to do their bidding by the Mortals command. Also, just FYI, I just mastered AP Latin, so DON'T say I'm not knowledgeable in Mythology in the Graeco-roman kind at least.
:::And for the last time, I didn't IMPLY nor state that Ditto even HAD a databank of DNA, that attribute belongs to Mew, and Mew alone.
:::Sheesh, sometimes you guys are impossible.[[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 23:00, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
::::It doesn't matter whether you explicitly say that Ditto is the ancestor - you're reasoning relies on claiming that the ability to use Transform is an indicator of having the DNA, and being the ancestor. Just by looking at Ditto, that's false. Being snarky about it doesn't change the fact that you're wrong.
::::Clefairy also has metronome, so Metronome cannot be an indicator of being the ancestor. To be the ancestor of all Pokemon, all Pokemon must be your descendants. Dialga and Palkia are clearly and explicitly descendants of Arceus only, unless Mew is Arceus' ancestor, which would be contradictory to what we are told. Again, you are confusing something the game frequently reiterates is a rumor, with what the game puts forth as exposition.
::::...what the hell do you mean "to be fair"? I never claimed that mortals caused the gods to lose body parts, and its completely irrelevant to discussion. As for Hercules, he became a full god after his original death.
::::....okay, I'm just going to post back your original post on this sub-topic, because you seem to have a bad memory:
:::''"and anyways, the legends also hinted that Legendaries can't be captured by mere mortals, yet most of the crime syndicates, the Pyramid King and even the protagonist has been wielding these pokemon '''as if they were nothing.'''"''
::::Mewtwo, the only Pokemon I can think of that was actually wielded by a "crime syndicate", caused those actions because it was PO'd about ''being used by humans''.
::::As far as I can tell, your implication with that passage was that Legendaries weren't the god-like beings that the legends indicated - ''yet their actions, even in The Rise of Darkrai, explicitly demonstrates that they are''. Whether a human actively screws with them or not, they ''can and will'' rip the world apart if they're in a bad mood. I'm also unaware of the legends implying that it's impossible to capture them - only that it's impossible to safely enslave them.
::::Wow...you pass high school latin, and you deem it logical to choose ''one'' example from ''one'' mythology to claim that ''all'' mortals in ''all'' mythology will never have the upper hand against ''any'' god? I'm definitely out of my league here!
::::Some other examples:
:::::''...Zeus then ordered Hades to chain Sisyphus in Tartarus. Sisyphus slyly asked Thanatos to try the chains to show how they worked. When Thanatos did so, Sisyphus secured them and threatened Hades. This caused an uproar, and no human could die until Ares (who was annoyed that his battles had lost their fun because his opponents would not die) intervened, freeing Thanatos and sending Sisyphus to Tartarus.''
:::::''Tantalus offered up his son, Pelops, as a sacrifice to the gods. He cut Pelops up, boiled him, and served him up as food for the gods. The gods were said to be aware of his plan for their feast, so they didn't touch the offering; only Demeter, distraught by the loss of her daughter, Persephone, "did not realize what it was" and ate part of the boy's shoulder.''
::::Yes, those who mess with the gods get it in the end - but isn't this ''exactly'' what happens to those who mess with the Legendary Pokemon? Even innocent play with pseudo-legendaries like Unown can endanger the world.
::::...I don't know how I can make this more plain:
:::::'''''You claimed that Mew's ability to use Transform meant it had to be the ancestor, and brought up Ditto as a "evidence" for your interpretation of how Transform worked.''''' Now, when confronted with this, you claim that the ability to use Transform does not imply something is the ancestor. '''''Make up your mind'''''.
:::::Actually, to be fair, you don't actually bring up this glaring inconsistency. You just try to avoid the contradiction, and try to "eat your cake and have it too."

To summarize:
#Mythology, as portrayed in the series, is quite reliable.
#Arceus' mythology is neither self-contradictory, nor unique among real-world mythology.
#The claim about Mew having the DNA of all Pokemon is not only contradictory to the explicit facts about artificial Pokemon such as Porygon, but never even claimed as fact, only as a rumor.
#Transform, as described in-game and as demonstrated by Ditto, does ''not'' require a databank of all DNA. It merely requires the ability to change shape, or to replicate another's DNA.
#Metronome, as described in-game and as demonstrated by Clefairy, also does not require a databank of all DNA.
#Claiming that Mew is the ancestor of all Pokemon is inherently contradictory to the stated claims about Arceus, Dialga, Palkia, Mesprit, Axelf, Uxie, and Heatran.
#Even before considering the contradictions in the total mythology, '''''The idea that having a copy of all of a group's DNA implies you are their ancestor is inherently ridiculous and contradictory. It is the opposite of how genetics and inheritance actually works, even on the most basic level. It can be immediately refuted by a thought-examination of a child and his two, un-related parents.'''''

[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 08:08, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Umm... Hello. May I be permitted to submit my own wild abstractions?(*looks around*) Thank you. Well, what if Arceus began by creating the Universe and then created Mew as a template for all Pokémon who then flew off and was disregarded whilst Arceus was busy creating the 'gods' of Time and Space... Or something...[[User:Monblazon|Monblazon]] 21:15, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

== STAB ==

The movesets seem to automatically assume Arceus is of the Fighting Type. I am unfamiliar with how this is coded, and so don't know how to fix it - is there anyone who can fix it?[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 06:00, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
:Don't you mean Dragon-type? --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 06:03, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
::Everything on the page assumes that Arceus is a randomly-generated type. It's a bit of code TTE added.--[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 06:42, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
:::Arceus is a {{type2|{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|0=???|1=Normal|2=Fighting|3=Flying|4=Poison|5=Ground|6=Rock|7=Bug|8=Ghost|9=Steel|10=Fire|11=Water|12=Grass|13=Electric|14=Psychic|15=Ice|16=Dragon|17=Dark}}}}... everyone knows that.
:::Yeah. My random code that changes depending on the time that the page is last loaded to cache. Takes the Unix time (seconds since 1/1/1970) and then does a modulo division by 18, assigning one of the eighteen forms of Arceus to each remainder. Unown does a similar thing, but you only notice it in the evoboxes. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 07:04, 11 August 2008 (UTC)