Bulbapedia - User contributions [en]

User talk:Mastervictini

2012-08-19T17:07:52Z

Mastervictini: /* Talk pages */

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| class="roundytop" style="background: #c4e673; border: 1px solid #3e7614; font-size: 160%; padding-left: 20px;" align="left" height="50px" | '''Welcome to Bulbapedia, Mastervictini!'''
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== Signature ==

When you write a new comment on a talk page, please sign your comments. You can do this by typing <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> by clicking http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/skins/common/images/button_sig.png this button above the edit window. This automatically adds your username and the time you wrote the comment. Thanks! [[User:Poke.geek|'''P''']][[User talk:Poke.geek|'''okége''']][[Special:Contributions/Poke.geek|'''ek''']] 20:50, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
:Additionally, when you sign please make sure you sign ''after'' your comment, not before. Thanks. '''''[[User:Pokemaster97|--Pokemaster]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|97]]''''' 01:11, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

== Talk pages ==

Try not to delete other comments when you comment; that's a form of vandalism, so be wary. Additionally, to enable wordwrap, don't have a space before you start your first sentence in a paragraph. To answer, we're not an "informative" wiki, we're an "encyclopedia" wiki. What you suggested falls under nonencyclopedic. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * the [[User talk:ArcToraphim|Arc]] [[Special:Contributions/ArcToraphim|Toraph]] 23:05, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

[[User:Mastervictini|Mastervictini]] ([[User talk:Mastervictini|talk]]) 23:08, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
Sorry, that was an accident I will be more careful,next time.

right, I will just lay low for awhile, seems no one really wants me as a member of bulbapedia
(I have no useful purpose anyways) hiatus {{unsigned|Mastervictini}}
[[User:Mastervictini|Mastervictini]] ([[User talk:Mastervictini|talk]]) 17:07, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

User:Mastervictini

2012-08-19T13:34:33Z

Mastervictini: Created page with " == shop data in B2W2 == In Black city they sell evolution items and stones. The Protector, Dubious Disk, Metal Coat, Up-Grade, Fire Stone, Thunder-Stone, Dusk Stone, and Dawn..."

== shop data in B2W2 ==
In Black city they sell evolution items and stones. The Protector, Dubious Disk, Metal Coat, Up-Grade, Fire Stone, Thunder-Stone, Dusk Stone, and Dawn Stone can all be bought here.
--[[User:Mastervictini|Mastervictini]] ([[User talk:Mastervictini|talk]]) 13:34, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

Talk:Black City

2012-08-19T01:06:04Z

Mastervictini: /* Shops in Black city */

''Italic text''== Mother reference ==

Black city resembles a cross of Moonslide from Earth bound and New Pork City from Mother 3, and White forest looks like the Sunshine forest also from Mother 3. Possibly useful for trivia?
[[User:Ghost chimera|Ghost chimera]] 08:06, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
:No, because minor visual similarities like this really aren't notable. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 13:28, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

== Mistreatment ==

It's really annoying how Bulbapedia treats Black City as a normal city and always groups it with other cities. This doesn't fit this place's real role at all. And it fails to present the most important thing - that Black City is a counterpart to White Forest. It's really nosense to group Black City with cities/towns just because it has "City" in the name. It's actually a dungeon, like White Forest. Black City and White Forest belong together. The current treatment of Black City really, really bugs me. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 16:24, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

== What happens without any people? ==
Back when I played Black in Japanese when it came out, I took ages to get to Black City, and so by the time I got there, everything was gone. Even the Market. All that was there was the Pokemon Center and the odd unenterable buildings in the top left. Yet when I tried to edit the article to show this, I got reverted by Han Ji-Wan. There obviously is some way to not have a market, as the guide shows a Black City without one (page 208), and I had a Black City without a market for 5 months or so. So I guess, could anyone confirm what makes the market disappear and edit the article accordingly? I've tried time travelling just now but can't seem to empty out the city for some reason. [[User:Bluesun|Bluesun]] 03:55, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
:Whoops. My bad. I just undid your edit without thinking. I apologize for that. --[[User:Han Ji-Wan|Han Ji-Wan]] 04:05, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
::Ah, alright, thanks. Ignore the first part of my newest edit summary then, sorry, I didn't see you had reverted. Would be a bit pointless for there to be a market that didn't sell anything because there was nobody visiting though, I guess. [[User:Bluesun|Bluesun]] 04:25, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
:::See I don't think this is all true as I came into the City with three trainers and still no market.--[[User:Random Disinformation|Random Disinformation]] 22:58, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
::::So what exactly is not true? My original point was that there were times when there is no market, which seems to also be your point. [[User:Bluesun|Bluesun]] 13:05, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
:::::The article says when you have one or more trainers that the market appears. I have entered the city with 3 trainers. No Market. I am trying to find out how to unlock the Market.--[[User:Random Disinformation|Random Disinformation]] 18:52, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
::::::Ah, derp. Didn't notice that. How's this, since we don't know the exact number at the moment? If it helps, the game of mine with the least amount of trainers currently has eight trainers and has the market. [[User:Bluesun|Bluesun]] 20:44, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
:::::::Cool. I will update when I find out how many trainers it takes. Don't know how long that will take though, as I don't know anyone here with the White Version.--[[User:Random Disinformation|Random Disinformation]] 20:52, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
::::::::I added NPCs one by one and the market appears with 4 or more NPCs.
::::::::[[User:Nuzzle|Nuzzle]] 00:28, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
:::::::::Sweet, thanks. I haven't been able to find someone that I can do all this with yet.--[[User:Random Disinformation|Random Disinformation]] 17:55, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

== Number of residents not accurate ==

"The number of residents can vary between 12 (minimum occupancy) and 45 (maximum occupancy), 12 of them being Trainers at the maximum."

That is patently false. The minimum number of residents is 0, plain and simple, as demonstrated by the previous comments. I have no idea where the 12 comes from but I have 0 residents and I have seen on the internet a lot of reports of 3-11 residents.

Also, it would be great to indicate that the number of people in the city '''decreases''' over time, rather than increasing as one would assume from the current formulation.

[[User:Magicguigz|Magicguigz]] 19:31, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
:The twelve comes from counting the people there when there are no visiting trainers. If as you say there were 0, even the Pokémon Center would be empty. Also, there can be between 0-10 visiting trainers, never 11. And it doesn't seem to make me think it increases, since usually any min-max is listed that same way, minimum then maximum, though that could be just my opinion. [[User:Bluesun|Bluesun]] 21:00, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
::Bluesun is correct. The 12 people number are the ones that are permanent, such as the Pokemon Center and the gate buildings. However, I don't know anything about it decreasing/increasing over time because I don't have Black Version yet. I will fix it if it is wrong once I get Black. :] [[User:Han Ji-Wan|Han Ji-Wan]] 22:22, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

== Missing Some Trainers ==

Hello! I just want to start off by asking if anyone can add the male Ace Trainer with the Magmortar? I don't know how...

Second, when my game's season changed to Winter, I lost a bunch of trainers and the mall, and the buildings in town changed dramatically. I didn't get the chance to visit my brother's White Forest last month to try inviting more trainers- is that the reason? Now it's Spring, and Black City hasn't changed. I still only have Staraptor guy, Porygon-Z dude, and Nursery Aide Miho. (Who thinks a Shiftry is cute? Seriously!) By the way, after I had talked to every trainer in my bro's White Forest during our games' Autumn month, I had a total of only 9 trainers outside. What am I supposed to do? --[[User:Jade 2010|Green Jade]] 23:05, 1 May 2011 (UTC)
:You keep talking to them. If you don't talk to them and battle them, they gradually go away. And to add a trainer, we need to know direct stats: trainer's name, and gender and level of his Magmortar. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * [[User talk:ArcToraphim|the Arc Toraph]] 23:16, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

Okay. As soon as I see him again (if someone else doesn't beat me to it) I'll let you know. I don't have him right now. Nice to meet you! ;) --[[User:Jade 2010|Green Jade]] 01:48, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

Well, someone beat me to it, after all. Eh, no biggy. I mean it never really mattered to me who put it up. I just want pages to be complete. I'll keep my eye out for any unmentioned trainers. --[[User:Jade 2010|Green Jade]] 15:23, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

WAIT! I have one already! I battled him way earlier this morning so I don't know the prize money yet, but I have other info. Scientist Jacques, Nidoqueen lv. 50. --[[User:Jade 2010|Green Jade]] 18:12, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Oh, and he uses Dire Hit at the beginning of every battle. --[[User:Jade 2010|Green Jade]] 18:14, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Ok, I have it. He rewards you 2400 when you beat him. --[[User:Jade 2010|Green Jade]] 18:46, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

== Order of Trainers ==

There seems to be no logical order to the trainer list. Alphabetical, or maybe alphabetical by trainer class, or by the level of their Pokémon? It would also be handy to have the items associated with each trainer next to their info. [[User:Geekvixen|Geekvixen]] 22:15, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
:Their trainer order is listed how the in-game text arranged their spoken lines. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * [[User talk:ArcToraphim|the Arc Toraph]] 23:34, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

== Pokécam ==
Pokécam!!!! i have only got 5 traners and people and my city is not changeing at all it stays the same i have done the money thing is well but i cant buy stones why i want one {{unsigned|Pokecam!!!!}}

[[User:Pokecam!!!!|Pokecam!!!!]] 11:50, 17 June 2011 (UTC) i need help i have only 5 traners and my city do not change and i whant to buy stones but i cant i done the money thing form the guy but it takes me days to do help pls

:The trainers do not change except to leave Black City if you don't talk/battle them once a day. As for stones, you simply do not have the trainers that produce them. And you sign with <nowiki>~~~~, not {{welcome}}.</nowiki> [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * [[User talk:ArcToraphim|the Arc Toraph]] 11:53, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

i know but i have beten 25 people but 5 a day each the same and why does my city not change i have talked to them each day i whant new people and i have not got white so i do i do it? pls help {{unsigned|Pokecam!!!!}}

my city dose not change help help help i whant it to change i got there in 2 days(playing wise) didt play for 2 days then played and completed and only got 5 trainers grrrr i got there in 2 days technicly so why and it does not change why help now pls {{unsigned|Pokecam!!!!}}

:It doesn't matter how many times you beat the trainers. The only way to get new trainers is hooking up with someone who has White and trainers in their White Forest. There really is no other way of doing it. The city only worsens on its own, not gets better. And signing your comments after you post isn't the want to do it; it messes up the timestamp. So make sure you sign them before you post your talk page comments. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * [[User talk:ArcToraphim|the Arc Toraph]] 12:07, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

[[User:Pokecam!!!!|Pokecam!!!!]] 12:13, 17 June 2011 (UTC) better ok so why does the city not change a guy says it changes dayily and looks like a creacher so why dont mine is it to do with the sessons sorry cant spell [[User:Pokecam!!!!|Pokecam!!!!]] 12:13, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

:It can change daily through people leaving, and through obtaining people through White. When someone comes or goes, the city itself changes, with more or less buildings because of it. Also, the trainers become rebattleable each day, which is sort of a change. Also that you got there and there were only 5 people left would mean that the game thought you took 6 days or more to get there, and it does count days you don't play. [[User:Bluesun|Bluesun]] 12:23, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
::The ten trainers you get when you start the game are random. They all have set disappearing rates. If you /really/ got to Black City in 2 days, you should have ten trainers, because they don't start leaving until day four at the earliest (of real-life time; the countdown starts when you first turn the game on, and goes by the DS time system). And it doesn't change daily. It only changes if you ignore the trainers for too long and the trainers begin to disappear. So yeah, what blusun said. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * [[User talk:ArcToraphim|the Arc Toraph]] 12:25, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
== What do you men by number of days?==
total play time in hours or lets say I starterted on june 13 and finished on the 20th. and if the second, does the population increase as time goes by, or does it decrease? Please help me!! [[User:Luxraychu|Luxraychu]] 17:28, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
:Days since you begun the game, as in, there are ten people on the 13th, 14th, 15th, 16th, some people leave, 17th, 18th, some people leave, 19th, 20th, you arrive. I don't know why everyone gets confused by it but people never come to the City without Entralinking with another game. [[User:Bluesun|Bluesun]] 17:39, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

== Frequency of Trainer battles ==

How often can you battle the Trainers here? I assume once per day? The article doesn't specify (which it should).--[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 07:27, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
:Once per day for the residents, once and never again for the two in the market. [[User:Bluesun|Bluesun]] 16:05, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

== Sale Value of Items from Black City Market ==

When one buys an item in the Black City market, does anybody know if it is sold at 1/2 price or the 1/2 price of its regular value? For instance, if I were to purchase a Nugget, would I sell it for $25,000 or $4,900 like one does at an ordinary PokéMart? {{unsigned|Squirrelfeet}}
:They sell for half the regular value. Meaning your nugget would sell for 4,900. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * [[User talk:ArcToraphim|the Arc Toraph]] 14:55, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

== Point values ==

OK, so the article lists the conditions that will alter the amount of points each trainer has, and states that once the point value hits zero, the trainer leaves. That's good. What I notice it's lacking, though, is the number of points each trainer starts with in the first place. Obviously not zero, or else you'd have to beat the game in less than 24 hours to have anyone in Black City. But I haven't found this sort of information anywhere. - ''unsigned comment from [[User:Missingno. Master|Missingno. Master]] ([[User talk:Missingno. Master|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Missingno._Master|contribs]])'' 18:58, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
:[http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/showpost.php?p=2979148 Here]. Very High = initially 20, High = initially 30, Low = initially 70, Very Low = initially 80. [[User:Bluesun|Bluesun]] 22:52, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
::Alrighty, then! I'll try and add this information to the article. - ''unsigned comment from [[User:Missingno. Master|Missingno. Master]] ([[User talk:Missingno. Master|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Missingno._Master|contribs]])'' 00:05, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

== NPC Trainer dialogue ==

Whenever I talk to an NPC Trainer after battling them in Black City, they say something like "Black City changes every day. I love that about this place!" or "I'm thinking about going somewhere else soon," which make it sound like they're going to disappear soon or stay for a while.

For the record, the ones that sound like they may leave soon are Carlos, Ken, and Lynette; the one that sounds like he's going to stick around is Robbie. Carlos, Ken, and Lynette were there when I first arrived in Black City, and I didn't battle them very much until I visited a friend's White Forest and invited Robbie. Carlos, Ken, and Lynette should have a low point value, and Robbie should have a high one, and that fits with their dialogue.

I just want to hear what anyone else has noticed before I do something like write in the actual article. [[User:Dimenticare|Dimenticare]] ([[User talk:Dimenticare|talk]]) 02:37, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
:Given that the article identifies that Trainers come and go, I don't think the dialogue is too notable. --[[User:Spriteit|Spriteit]] ([[User talk:Spriteit|talk]]) 15:22, 17 August 2012
(UTC)

== Black Skyscraper trainer catalouge ==
--[[User:Mastervictini|Mastervictini]] ([[User talk:Mastervictini|talk]]) 22:53, 18 August 2012 (UTC) We need data on the trainers encounterable in the Black Skyscraper.

== Shops in Black city ==
[[User:Mastervictini|Mastervictini]] ([[User talk:Mastervictini|talk]]) 22:57, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

We also need data on what we can buy in Black City in Pokémon Black 2 and Pokémon White 2. I would do it myself but I am new so I don't want to risk any mistakes.

Talk:Black City

2012-08-19T01:03:47Z

Mastervictini: /* Black Skyscraper trainer catalouge */

User talk:Mastervictini

2012-08-19T00:58:51Z

Mastervictini: /* Talk pages */

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| class="roundytop" style="background: #c4e673; border: 1px solid #3e7614; font-size: 160%; padding-left: 20px;" align="left" height="50px" | '''Welcome to Bulbapedia, Mastervictini!'''
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By creating your account you are now able to edit pages, join discussions, and expand the community-driven Pokémon encyclopedia. Before you jump in, here are some ground rules:
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* Make good edits. Preview them before you save to make sure they're perfect the first time around.
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== Signature ==

When you write a new comment on a talk page, please sign your comments. You can do this by typing <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> by clicking http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/skins/common/images/button_sig.png this button above the edit window. This automatically adds your username and the time you wrote the comment. Thanks! [[User:Poke.geek|'''P''']][[User talk:Poke.geek|'''okége''']][[Special:Contributions/Poke.geek|'''ek''']] 20:50, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

== Talk pages ==

Try not to delete other comments when you comment; that's a form of vandalism, so be wary. Additionally, to enable wordwrap, don't have a space before you start your first sentence in a paragraph. To answer, we're not an "informative" wiki, we're an "encyclopedia" wiki. What you suggested falls under nonencyclopedic. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * the [[User talk:ArcToraphim|Arc]] [[Special:Contributions/ArcToraphim|Toraph]] 23:05, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

[[User:Mastervictini|Mastervictini]] ([[User talk:Mastervictini|talk]]) 23:08, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
Sorry, that was an accident I will be more careful,next time.

right, I will just lay low for awhile, seems no one really wants me as a member of bulbapedia
(I have no useful purpose anyways) hiatus

Talk:Remake

2012-08-18T23:12:12Z

Mastervictini: /* Evidence in the code */ new section

==Third versions==
By the definition of remake in the article, wouldn't the third versions be considered remakes? [[User:Turtwig A|Turtwig's]] [[Turtwig (Pokémon)|A-B-Cs]] ([[User talk:Turtwig A|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|contribs]]) 21:50, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
:^ It's [[User:Turtwig A|Turtwig A]]! [[User talk:Turtwig A|My talk]] or [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|wiki edits]] 00:46, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

==Speculation section==
Do we really need it? It is all speculation, and I could dismiss half of it. Sure, it's tagged as speculation, but it doesn't make it fine to put in the article. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 11:33, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
:Or it can be moved to an article of its own like the GS remake one. There are evidences of it, somewhat like shipping. [[User:Tc26/Anime Predictions|tc]][[User:Tc26|²₆]][[User talk:Tc26|tc]][[User:Tc26/Sandbox|26]] 11:36, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
::I thought that got deleted because we didn't want an article full of just speculation. I think this kind of thing is best suited for the forums. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 12:15, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

== Sinnoh League Ground ==

It is worth mentioning that in Platinum in Sinnoh League building there is a ground with a red outer side, blue inner side and green-like moving lines (which could reference to R/S/E colors) [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] 21:28, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
:I don't think that's notable enough to be mentioned in the article. I'd say it's just pure coincidence. [[User:Han Ji-Wan|Han Ji-Wan]] 00:22, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

== Prefix ==

From what I've noticed, remakes have some sort of prefix at the begining
 '''Heart'''Gold
 '''Soul'''Silver
 '''Fire'''Red
 '''Leaf'''Green
 Should this be noted? [[User:Pgj1997|Pgj1997]] 16:25, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
:It's not really that interesting. :--[[User:SuperAipom7|SuperAipom7]] ''([[User talk:SuperAipom7|Questions?]])'' 16:26, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
::So? {{unsigned|Pgj1997}}

== So-called evidence ==

A lot of the 'evidence' in the Speculation section seems really unneccesary. What does bringing back ocean currents, an area with a sandstorm, or Ash's party in DP189, have anything to do with a possible remake? I think the section needs trimming. [[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']][[Pikachu (Pokémon)|'''⚡''']] 20:41, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
:^ Ocean currents and sandstorms were introduced in Gen III and Ash used some of his Hoenn Pokémon in that episode. That is why they were added. I'm not saying they are the best piece of evidence, just saying why they were added. --[[User:HoennMaster|Hoenn]][[User talk:HoennMaster|Master]] 20:56, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
::I know, but they are not the same as, for example, Johto being coded in as a trade location, or Dawn traveling to Hoenn after SS024, opening the possibility of an anime reappearance for Hoenn. I guess they would have to re-code the ocean currents and the sandstorms back into the game, so thats fine, but as for DP189, thats from the Gen IV series, if Ash were to recall his Hoenn Pokemon in the Best Wishes series it would be notable. And a hiddden note next to it actually states that he only has three AG Pokemon on his team not including Pikachu (Sceptile, Swellow, Torkoal), Pikachu is what makes it "most of his team". Regarding some other points:
* ''The sixth Gym Leader of Unova, [[Skyla]], is a Flying-type specialist and lives near a rainy area, like [[Winona]] from Hoenn and both are the sixth Gym Leader in their respective regions.''
::Like Winona and Skyla, Pryce, Candice and Brycen are Ice-type gym leaders #7, but it doesnt mean that HeartGold/SoulSilver and Diamond/Pearl will get remakes.
* ''A fossil depicting an {{p|Armaldo}} in the [[Nacrene City]] museum.''
::Dragonite has a far more notable appearance, but it doesnt mean that they will remake FireRed/LeafGreen. And Armaldo is not unobtainable in BW.
* ''A {{tc|Backpacker}} in [[Desert Resort]] tells the player that he comes from Hoenn, and that he doesn't need the [[Go-Goggles]] here unlike in Hoenn.''
* ''In [[Undella Town]] during Summer, a boy tells the player that he and his family comes from Hoenn and visit Undella Town every Summer. A girl also mentions [[Steven Stone]]. ''
:: Random characters may mention Hoenn, but they also mention other regions.
* ''No characters introduced in Generation III are reused in Black and White, unlike other generations which saw characters repeated in these games. [[Cynthia]], [[Looker]], [[Caitlin]], and a former {{tc|Team Rocket Grunt}} were introduced before they appeared in Black and White.''
::This is actually evidence against a remake, Jasmine appeared in DP, and her games got a remake.
* ''The introduction of {{p|Maractus|another}} {{p|Cacnea|cactus}}-{{p|Cacturne|based}} Pokémon.''
:It also introduced another {{p|Bouffalant|bull}}-{{p|Tauros|based}} {{p|Miltank|Pokémon}}, {{p|Drilbur|mole}}-{{p|Diglett|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Baoppu|fire}} {{p|Hihidaruma|ape}}-{{p|Chimchar|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Munna|baku}}-{{p|Drowzee|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Zebraika|horse}}-{{p|Ponyta|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Koromori|bat}}-{{p|Zubat|based}} {{p|Gliscor|Pokémon}}, {{p|Dokkora|Machop}}-{{p|Machop|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Tympole|tadpole}}-{{p|Poliwag|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Nageki|Hit}}{{p|Dageki|mon}}-{{p|Hitmonlee|based}} {{p|Hitmonchan|Pokémon}}, {{p|Cottonee|cotton plant}}-{{p|Hoppip|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Lilligant|feminine, rafflesia}}-{{p|Bellossom|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Archen|fossil prehistoric bird}}-{{p|Aerodactyl|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Zoroark|kitsune}}-{{p|Ninetales|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Foongus|fungi}}-{{p|Shuckle|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Frillish|Jellyfish}}-{{p|Tentacool|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Galvantula|spider}}-{{p|Ariados|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Kumasyun|bear}}-{{p|Teddiursa|based}} Pokémon.
:[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']][[Pikachu (Pokémon)|'''⚡''']] 23:06, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

I trimmed down the article and removed many unnecessary facts. Some of the facts that you removed were worth keeping. You don't hear anyone else mentioning [[Champion]] [[Lance]] of the [[Kanto]] and [[Johto]] regions, do you? And having Dive return as a [[HM]], a large desert, The Riches Family (which is battled in the same way as Winstrates), ocean currents, language on walls (which wasn't present anywhere in [[Sinnoh]]), etc. is all there so that the programmers won't have to make much changes to the engine of Black and White for the remakes of Ruby and Sapphire. The same thing happened in [[Generation IV]]. [[HeartGold and SoulSilver]] were modified heavily off of [[Pokémon Platinum]]'s game engine and there was a good amount of similarities between [[Johto]] and [[Sinnoh]] ([[Jasmine]]'s appearance, [[Gym Leader]] line-up, interaction with trees, etc.). --[[User:Dialgafan1|Dialgafan1]] 00:20, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
:Okay, I have trimmed down it again, and I will list my reasons here. There are just as many Sinnoh Pokémon only available via the Dream World or Poké Transfer as Hoenn ones; therefore, it is meaningless. Nobody mentions Lance, but someone does mention Cynthia; in fact, she appears there. Most likely, nobody mentions Lance because they haven't decided whether he will be Champion at this time. Currents also appeared in FRLG. There is a sandstorm area in Sinnoh too; sure, it is post-Elite Four, but that shouldn't mean anything. You can draw a tonne of parallels between Gym Leaders (7th Gym Ice anyone?), but none of them even come close to hinting a remake. No previous NPCs at all appeared in RS (both Gen I and II NPCs were absent); this is not the case in Black and White, and this is not what happened in DPPt. Yes, because not mentioning Team Aqua and Magma means that they can screw the storyline over and retcon it into another time period over 3 years later (presentably 3 years + the age of TR Grunt's son + 9 months). If they wanted to put Hoenn at the same time as Unova, they would have put Unova in Hoenn's time. Hoenn certainly isn't the only region with a Safari Ball, and they had no issue programming in capture animations for the Apricorn Balls and Sport Ball in HGSS.
:There are a few other things that I still think are non-hints—Go-Goggles mention, The Riches, reference to Hoenn in Undella Town, having two rivals, Armoldo fossil—but I have left them anyway. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 12:05, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

==Should this be added?==

*[[Bianca]] and {{ga|May}}/{{ga|Brendan}} both give out the [[Dowsing MCHN]] and [[HM02]]. Coincidentally, both items are obtained after defeating the second and fifth gyms of the region.

Probably not because it is just coincidental. Just wanted to ask before adding it and getting in trouble. --[[User:Dialgafan1|Dialgafan1]] 17:55, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

== Recent Developments from Junichi Masuda's Twitter Account ==

I'm still learning the ropes here, so I really don't know how to add this new development to the page. This development was covered by Bulbanews, which in turn got its information direct from Masuda's twitter feed. http://bulbanews.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Masuda_replies_to_tweet_regarding_remakes_of_Generation_III_games --[[User:Marilynasol|Marilynasol]] 15:49, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
:Actually, it's already there on the right-hand side of the page. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 00:20, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

== Notable? ==

I noticed that while Pokémon most Pokémon from the original four regions other than Hoenn retain sprites from one of older games (with not so many Pokémon having different sprites, like {{p|Ampharos}}. On other side, some have bigger changes than just pose, like eg. {{p|Phanpy}} or {{p|Donphan}}), many (if not all) of Hoenn Pokémon got their sprites visibly updated in B/W (not just poses but also colors, visible on eg. {{p|Grovyle}}, {{p|Regice}} or {{p|Combusken}}) [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] 19:28, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
:That's likely because the Hoenn Pokémon were the only Pokémon to ''not'' get their sprites updated at all in the 4th gen. Doubt it has anything at all to do with a remake. - [[User:Blazios|Blazios]] [[User Talk:Blazios|talk]] 19:35, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
::Except {{p|Registeel}}. inb4 Nazi Salute. Every other Hoenn mon had one Gen IV sprite, it was the same through DPPtHGSS. Before I got Internet, I though that sprites from R/S are how they should look. Now I know they're not (inb4 Grovyle with {{tt|blue|WTF? At least Treecko and Sceptile have green-a-like leaves, while Grovyle had obvious BLUE leaves}} leaves and Seedot with gray/grey "hat"). [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] 20:19, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
:::Registeel had its sprite edited for European D/P, making it a localisation change to begin with that was eventually universally implemented. It was about as much of an update as Imprison's animation change is (As in not at all). Not that that has anything to do with anything. - [[User:Blazios|Blazios]] [[User Talk:Blazios|talk]] 20:29, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

== Johto? ==

Did May compete contests in Johto? I thought it was in Hoenn. [[User:Nickvang|Nickvang]] 17:28, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
:After the Advanced Generation ended may went on to Johto to continue contests. [[User:Pokemaster97|--Pokemaster]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|97]] 17:34, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
Right? But Johto doesn't even have contests? [[User:Nickvang|Nickvang]] 17:36, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
::It does in the anime, apparently.--[[User:MisterE13|Mister]][[User talk:MisterE13|'''E''']][[Special:Contributions/MisterE13|13]] 17:43, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

== Starters. ==

While Kanto, Johto and Sinnoh have different base stats total for each unevolved starter (apparently 309 for Fire-types, 314 for Water-types and 318 for Grass-types), Hoenn and Unova have all unevolved starters at the same base stat total (310 and 308 respectively). [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] 20:22, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

==Deep Sand==
Black & White has sand tiles (in the Desert Resort and Route 4) where wild Pokémon can be encountered, a mechanic introduced in Gen III but not used in Gen IV. I say this is evidence for Ruby & Sapphire remakes. —'''[[User:Team Magma Zangoose|Team Magma]] [[User talk:Team Magma Zangoose|Zangoose ⚡]]''' 04:57, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
:That's not evidence.. Sorry. [[User:Han Ji-Wan|Han Ji-Wan]] 07:04, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

still a bit suspicous to me but yeah, to me probably a coincidence, really significant hints are triple battles or dive hm returning or even dive ball returning to original function. Then again, you could be right considering nintendo is not known to do random stuff [[User:Mastervictini|Mastervictini]] 20:56, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

== suspicous black and white 2 logo? a hint to ruby and sapphire possibly ==

[[User:Mastervictini|Mastervictini]] 21:02, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

I noticed the logo for pokemon black and white looks like it may be hinting to Hoenn,the ice is red and blue for white kyurem and black kyurem but the ice looks more like crystals then ice to me. It is probably just my imagination or a coincidence but the logo looks incredibly suspicous
[[User:Mastervictini|Mastervictini]] 21:02, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

== safari ball throwing animation and contest stats ==

if there were going to be no remakes why have a s-ball throwing animation, they went to the troble of removing hms 7 and 8 which are now blank spaces yet no safari zone is in Unova but they kept the animation which probably means future gen v games based in Hoenn will have a safari zone.
The hidden contest stats are suspicous and the fact that ribbons are programed but usually unobtainable outside of rare events is eyebrowraising
MasterVictini [[User:Mastervictini|Mastervictini]] 21:17, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
:The fact that generation IV key items are also hidden in the game code indicates that the hidden contest stats are likely copied code from generation IV games, rather than a hint of remakes. The same could be used to explain the safari ball throwing animation. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] [[User talk:Werdnae|(talk)]] 22:33, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

== red ,blue and green objects in recent movie 15 teaser trailer hinting somethig ==

I definately saw something looking a bit like 3 gems ruby, sapphire and emarald colored at one point during the video on pokemon smash
I dont have a link but the video is on fib I wonder if this is a hint especially considering the video was offical {{unsigned|Mastervictini}}
:[http://youtu.be/VGsFtHQtRPM This trailer]? I've watched it a few times and I still can't see any such gems. Can you screenshot them from it, if that is the video? --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 07:19, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

it was not in the actual movie it was in that room with those japanese guys on pokemon smash to their left - {{unsigned|Mastervictini}}

[[User:Mastervictini|Mastervictini]] 15:48, 31 March 2012 (UTC) whoops, I watched the pokemon smash episode AGAIN but the "red blue green gems" are actually bags or something similar. sorry about that (the "red" is not even red, more like pink) by the way how do you provide links?

:For info on links, simply look [[LLT|here]]. -- [[User:Pringles|Pringles]] 21:20, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

==The R/S remakes speculation part...==
Needs to mention some of the theory's criticism, like the Pokémon Gold and Silver remake speculation article did for that theory. - [[User:Ericss|Ericss]] 23:01, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

== Evidence in the code ==

--[[User:Mastervictini|Mastervictini]] ([[User talk:Mastervictini|talk]]) 23:12, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
I apoligize if this has already been mentioned or is already underway, but we may be able to find evidence of a future game set in the Hoenn region by exaiming the deepest parts of the code of pokémon Black 2 and Pokémon White 2 for dummied out items or other pecularities. An example of a hint would be placeholder map data for the Hoenn region (could of sworn we found Jouto region data in Pokémon Diamond and Pearl)

User talk:Mastervictini

2012-08-18T23:08:03Z

Mastervictini: /* Talk pages */

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== Signature ==

When you write a new comment on a talk page, please sign your comments. You can do this by typing <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> by clicking http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/skins/common/images/button_sig.png this button above the edit window. This automatically adds your username and the time you wrote the comment. Thanks! [[User:Poke.geek|'''P''']][[User talk:Poke.geek|'''okége''']][[Special:Contributions/Poke.geek|'''ek''']] 20:50, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

== Talk pages ==

Try not to delete other comments when you comment; that's a form of vandalism, so be wary. Additionally, to enable wordwrap, don't have a space before you start your first sentence in a paragraph. To answer, we're not an "informative" wiki, we're an "encyclopedia" wiki. What you suggested falls under nonencyclopedic. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * the [[User talk:ArcToraphim|Arc]] [[Special:Contributions/ArcToraphim|Toraph]] 23:05, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

[[User:Mastervictini|Mastervictini]] ([[User talk:Mastervictini|talk]]) 23:08, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
Sorry, that was an accident I will be more careful,next time.

Talk:Black City

2012-08-18T22:57:36Z

Mastervictini: /* Shops in Black city */

''Italic text''== Mother reference ==

Black city resembles a cross of Moonslide from Earth bound and New Pork City from Mother 3, and White forest looks like the Sunshine forest also from Mother 3. Possibly useful for trivia?
[[User:Ghost chimera|Ghost chimera]] 08:06, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
:No, because minor visual similarities like this really aren't notable. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 13:28, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

== Mistreatment ==

It's really annoying how Bulbapedia treats Black City as a normal city and always groups it with other cities. This doesn't fit this place's real role at all. And it fails to present the most important thing - that Black City is a counterpart to White Forest. It's really nosense to group Black City with cities/towns just because it has "City" in the name. It's actually a dungeon, like White Forest. Black City and White Forest belong together. The current treatment of Black City really, really bugs me. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 16:24, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

== What happens without any people? ==
Back when I played Black in Japanese when it came out, I took ages to get to Black City, and so by the time I got there, everything was gone. Even the Market. All that was there was the Pokemon Center and the odd unenterable buildings in the top left. Yet when I tried to edit the article to show this, I got reverted by Han Ji-Wan. There obviously is some way to not have a market, as the guide shows a Black City without one (page 208), and I had a Black City without a market for 5 months or so. So I guess, could anyone confirm what makes the market disappear and edit the article accordingly? I've tried time travelling just now but can't seem to empty out the city for some reason. [[User:Bluesun|Bluesun]] 03:55, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
:Whoops. My bad. I just undid your edit without thinking. I apologize for that. --[[User:Han Ji-Wan|Han Ji-Wan]] 04:05, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
::Ah, alright, thanks. Ignore the first part of my newest edit summary then, sorry, I didn't see you had reverted. Would be a bit pointless for there to be a market that didn't sell anything because there was nobody visiting though, I guess. [[User:Bluesun|Bluesun]] 04:25, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
:::See I don't think this is all true as I came into the City with three trainers and still no market.--[[User:Random Disinformation|Random Disinformation]] 22:58, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
::::So what exactly is not true? My original point was that there were times when there is no market, which seems to also be your point. [[User:Bluesun|Bluesun]] 13:05, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
:::::The article says when you have one or more trainers that the market appears. I have entered the city with 3 trainers. No Market. I am trying to find out how to unlock the Market.--[[User:Random Disinformation|Random Disinformation]] 18:52, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
::::::Ah, derp. Didn't notice that. How's this, since we don't know the exact number at the moment? If it helps, the game of mine with the least amount of trainers currently has eight trainers and has the market. [[User:Bluesun|Bluesun]] 20:44, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
:::::::Cool. I will update when I find out how many trainers it takes. Don't know how long that will take though, as I don't know anyone here with the White Version.--[[User:Random Disinformation|Random Disinformation]] 20:52, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
::::::::I added NPCs one by one and the market appears with 4 or more NPCs.
::::::::[[User:Nuzzle|Nuzzle]] 00:28, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
:::::::::Sweet, thanks. I haven't been able to find someone that I can do all this with yet.--[[User:Random Disinformation|Random Disinformation]] 17:55, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

== Number of residents not accurate ==

"The number of residents can vary between 12 (minimum occupancy) and 45 (maximum occupancy), 12 of them being Trainers at the maximum."

That is patently false. The minimum number of residents is 0, plain and simple, as demonstrated by the previous comments. I have no idea where the 12 comes from but I have 0 residents and I have seen on the internet a lot of reports of 3-11 residents.

Also, it would be great to indicate that the number of people in the city '''decreases''' over time, rather than increasing as one would assume from the current formulation.

[[User:Magicguigz|Magicguigz]] 19:31, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
:The twelve comes from counting the people there when there are no visiting trainers. If as you say there were 0, even the Pokémon Center would be empty. Also, there can be between 0-10 visiting trainers, never 11. And it doesn't seem to make me think it increases, since usually any min-max is listed that same way, minimum then maximum, though that could be just my opinion. [[User:Bluesun|Bluesun]] 21:00, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
::Bluesun is correct. The 12 people number are the ones that are permanent, such as the Pokemon Center and the gate buildings. However, I don't know anything about it decreasing/increasing over time because I don't have Black Version yet. I will fix it if it is wrong once I get Black. :] [[User:Han Ji-Wan|Han Ji-Wan]] 22:22, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

== Missing Some Trainers ==

Hello! I just want to start off by asking if anyone can add the male Ace Trainer with the Magmortar? I don't know how...

Second, when my game's season changed to Winter, I lost a bunch of trainers and the mall, and the buildings in town changed dramatically. I didn't get the chance to visit my brother's White Forest last month to try inviting more trainers- is that the reason? Now it's Spring, and Black City hasn't changed. I still only have Staraptor guy, Porygon-Z dude, and Nursery Aide Miho. (Who thinks a Shiftry is cute? Seriously!) By the way, after I had talked to every trainer in my bro's White Forest during our games' Autumn month, I had a total of only 9 trainers outside. What am I supposed to do? --[[User:Jade 2010|Green Jade]] 23:05, 1 May 2011 (UTC)
:You keep talking to them. If you don't talk to them and battle them, they gradually go away. And to add a trainer, we need to know direct stats: trainer's name, and gender and level of his Magmortar. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * [[User talk:ArcToraphim|the Arc Toraph]] 23:16, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

Okay. As soon as I see him again (if someone else doesn't beat me to it) I'll let you know. I don't have him right now. Nice to meet you! ;) --[[User:Jade 2010|Green Jade]] 01:48, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

Well, someone beat me to it, after all. Eh, no biggy. I mean it never really mattered to me who put it up. I just want pages to be complete. I'll keep my eye out for any unmentioned trainers. --[[User:Jade 2010|Green Jade]] 15:23, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

WAIT! I have one already! I battled him way earlier this morning so I don't know the prize money yet, but I have other info. Scientist Jacques, Nidoqueen lv. 50. --[[User:Jade 2010|Green Jade]] 18:12, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Oh, and he uses Dire Hit at the beginning of every battle. --[[User:Jade 2010|Green Jade]] 18:14, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Ok, I have it. He rewards you 2400 when you beat him. --[[User:Jade 2010|Green Jade]] 18:46, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

== Order of Trainers ==

There seems to be no logical order to the trainer list. Alphabetical, or maybe alphabetical by trainer class, or by the level of their Pokémon? It would also be handy to have the items associated with each trainer next to their info. [[User:Geekvixen|Geekvixen]] 22:15, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
:Their trainer order is listed how the in-game text arranged their spoken lines. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * [[User talk:ArcToraphim|the Arc Toraph]] 23:34, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

== Pokécam ==
Pokécam!!!! i have only got 5 traners and people and my city is not changeing at all it stays the same i have done the money thing is well but i cant buy stones why i want one {{unsigned|Pokecam!!!!}}

[[User:Pokecam!!!!|Pokecam!!!!]] 11:50, 17 June 2011 (UTC) i need help i have only 5 traners and my city do not change and i whant to buy stones but i cant i done the money thing form the guy but it takes me days to do help pls

:The trainers do not change except to leave Black City if you don't talk/battle them once a day. As for stones, you simply do not have the trainers that produce them. And you sign with <nowiki>~~~~, not {{welcome}}.</nowiki> [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * [[User talk:ArcToraphim|the Arc Toraph]] 11:53, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

i know but i have beten 25 people but 5 a day each the same and why does my city not change i have talked to them each day i whant new people and i have not got white so i do i do it? pls help {{unsigned|Pokecam!!!!}}

my city dose not change help help help i whant it to change i got there in 2 days(playing wise) didt play for 2 days then played and completed and only got 5 trainers grrrr i got there in 2 days technicly so why and it does not change why help now pls {{unsigned|Pokecam!!!!}}

:It doesn't matter how many times you beat the trainers. The only way to get new trainers is hooking up with someone who has White and trainers in their White Forest. There really is no other way of doing it. The city only worsens on its own, not gets better. And signing your comments after you post isn't the want to do it; it messes up the timestamp. So make sure you sign them before you post your talk page comments. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * [[User talk:ArcToraphim|the Arc Toraph]] 12:07, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

[[User:Pokecam!!!!|Pokecam!!!!]] 12:13, 17 June 2011 (UTC) better ok so why does the city not change a guy says it changes dayily and looks like a creacher so why dont mine is it to do with the sessons sorry cant spell [[User:Pokecam!!!!|Pokecam!!!!]] 12:13, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

:It can change daily through people leaving, and through obtaining people through White. When someone comes or goes, the city itself changes, with more or less buildings because of it. Also, the trainers become rebattleable each day, which is sort of a change. Also that you got there and there were only 5 people left would mean that the game thought you took 6 days or more to get there, and it does count days you don't play. [[User:Bluesun|Bluesun]] 12:23, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
::The ten trainers you get when you start the game are random. They all have set disappearing rates. If you /really/ got to Black City in 2 days, you should have ten trainers, because they don't start leaving until day four at the earliest (of real-life time; the countdown starts when you first turn the game on, and goes by the DS time system). And it doesn't change daily. It only changes if you ignore the trainers for too long and the trainers begin to disappear. So yeah, what blusun said. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * [[User talk:ArcToraphim|the Arc Toraph]] 12:25, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
== What do you men by number of days?==
total play time in hours or lets say I starterted on june 13 and finished on the 20th. and if the second, does the population increase as time goes by, or does it decrease? Please help me!! [[User:Luxraychu|Luxraychu]] 17:28, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
:Days since you begun the game, as in, there are ten people on the 13th, 14th, 15th, 16th, some people leave, 17th, 18th, some people leave, 19th, 20th, you arrive. I don't know why everyone gets confused by it but people never come to the City without Entralinking with another game. [[User:Bluesun|Bluesun]] 17:39, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

== Frequency of Trainer battles ==

How often can you battle the Trainers here? I assume once per day? The article doesn't specify (which it should).--[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 07:27, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
:Once per day for the residents, once and never again for the two in the market. [[User:Bluesun|Bluesun]] 16:05, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

== Sale Value of Items from Black City Market ==

When one buys an item in the Black City market, does anybody know if it is sold at 1/2 price or the 1/2 price of its regular value? For instance, if I were to purchase a Nugget, would I sell it for $25,000 or $4,900 like one does at an ordinary PokéMart? {{unsigned|Squirrelfeet}}
:They sell for half the regular value. Meaning your nugget would sell for 4,900. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * [[User talk:ArcToraphim|the Arc Toraph]] 14:55, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

== Point values ==

OK, so the article lists the conditions that will alter the amount of points each trainer has, and states that once the point value hits zero, the trainer leaves. That's good. What I notice it's lacking, though, is the number of points each trainer starts with in the first place. Obviously not zero, or else you'd have to beat the game in less than 24 hours to have anyone in Black City. But I haven't found this sort of information anywhere. - ''unsigned comment from [[User:Missingno. Master|Missingno. Master]] ([[User talk:Missingno. Master|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Missingno._Master|contribs]])'' 18:58, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
:[http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/showpost.php?p=2979148 Here]. Very High = initially 20, High = initially 30, Low = initially 70, Very Low = initially 80. [[User:Bluesun|Bluesun]] 22:52, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
::Alrighty, then! I'll try and add this information to the article. - ''unsigned comment from [[User:Missingno. Master|Missingno. Master]] ([[User talk:Missingno. Master|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Missingno._Master|contribs]])'' 00:05, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

== NPC Trainer dialogue ==

Whenever I talk to an NPC Trainer after battling them in Black City, they say something like "Black City changes every day. I love that about this place!" or "I'm thinking about going somewhere else soon," which make it sound like they're going to disappear soon or stay for a while.

For the record, the ones that sound like they may leave soon are Carlos, Ken, and Lynette; the one that sounds like he's going to stick around is Robbie. Carlos, Ken, and Lynette were there when I first arrived in Black City, and I didn't battle them very much until I visited a friend's White Forest and invited Robbie. Carlos, Ken, and Lynette should have a low point value, and Robbie should have a high one, and that fits with their dialogue.

I just want to hear what anyone else has noticed before I do something like write in the actual article. [[User:Dimenticare|Dimenticare]] ([[User talk:Dimenticare|talk]]) 02:37, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
:Given that the article identifies that Trainers come and go, I don't think the dialogue is too notable. --[[User:Spriteit|Spriteit]] ([[User talk:Spriteit|talk]]) 15:22, 17 August 2012
(UTC)

== Black Skyscraper trainer catalouge ==
--[[User:Mastervictini|Mastervictini]] ([[User talk:Mastervictini|talk]]) 22:53, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
We need data on the trainers encounterable in the Black Skyscraper.
== Shops in Black city ==
[[User:Mastervictini|Mastervictini]] ([[User talk:Mastervictini|talk]]) 22:57, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

We also need data on what we can buy in Black City in Pokémon Black 2 and Pokémon White 2.

Talk:Black City

2012-08-18T22:56:44Z

Mastervictini: Shops

''Italic text''== Mother reference ==

Black city resembles a cross of Moonslide from Earth bound and New Pork City from Mother 3, and White forest looks like the Sunshine forest also from Mother 3. Possibly useful for trivia?
[[User:Ghost chimera|Ghost chimera]] 08:06, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
:No, because minor visual similarities like this really aren't notable. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 13:28, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

== Mistreatment ==

It's really annoying how Bulbapedia treats Black City as a normal city and always groups it with other cities. This doesn't fit this place's real role at all. And it fails to present the most important thing - that Black City is a counterpart to White Forest. It's really nosense to group Black City with cities/towns just because it has "City" in the name. It's actually a dungeon, like White Forest. Black City and White Forest belong together. The current treatment of Black City really, really bugs me. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 16:24, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

== What happens without any people? ==
Back when I played Black in Japanese when it came out, I took ages to get to Black City, and so by the time I got there, everything was gone. Even the Market. All that was there was the Pokemon Center and the odd unenterable buildings in the top left. Yet when I tried to edit the article to show this, I got reverted by Han Ji-Wan. There obviously is some way to not have a market, as the guide shows a Black City without one (page 208), and I had a Black City without a market for 5 months or so. So I guess, could anyone confirm what makes the market disappear and edit the article accordingly? I've tried time travelling just now but can't seem to empty out the city for some reason. [[User:Bluesun|Bluesun]] 03:55, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
:Whoops. My bad. I just undid your edit without thinking. I apologize for that. --[[User:Han Ji-Wan|Han Ji-Wan]] 04:05, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
::Ah, alright, thanks. Ignore the first part of my newest edit summary then, sorry, I didn't see you had reverted. Would be a bit pointless for there to be a market that didn't sell anything because there was nobody visiting though, I guess. [[User:Bluesun|Bluesun]] 04:25, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
:::See I don't think this is all true as I came into the City with three trainers and still no market.--[[User:Random Disinformation|Random Disinformation]] 22:58, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
::::So what exactly is not true? My original point was that there were times when there is no market, which seems to also be your point. [[User:Bluesun|Bluesun]] 13:05, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
:::::The article says when you have one or more trainers that the market appears. I have entered the city with 3 trainers. No Market. I am trying to find out how to unlock the Market.--[[User:Random Disinformation|Random Disinformation]] 18:52, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
::::::Ah, derp. Didn't notice that. How's this, since we don't know the exact number at the moment? If it helps, the game of mine with the least amount of trainers currently has eight trainers and has the market. [[User:Bluesun|Bluesun]] 20:44, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
:::::::Cool. I will update when I find out how many trainers it takes. Don't know how long that will take though, as I don't know anyone here with the White Version.--[[User:Random Disinformation|Random Disinformation]] 20:52, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
::::::::I added NPCs one by one and the market appears with 4 or more NPCs.
::::::::[[User:Nuzzle|Nuzzle]] 00:28, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
:::::::::Sweet, thanks. I haven't been able to find someone that I can do all this with yet.--[[User:Random Disinformation|Random Disinformation]] 17:55, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

== Number of residents not accurate ==

"The number of residents can vary between 12 (minimum occupancy) and 45 (maximum occupancy), 12 of them being Trainers at the maximum."

That is patently false. The minimum number of residents is 0, plain and simple, as demonstrated by the previous comments. I have no idea where the 12 comes from but I have 0 residents and I have seen on the internet a lot of reports of 3-11 residents.

Also, it would be great to indicate that the number of people in the city '''decreases''' over time, rather than increasing as one would assume from the current formulation.

[[User:Magicguigz|Magicguigz]] 19:31, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
:The twelve comes from counting the people there when there are no visiting trainers. If as you say there were 0, even the Pokémon Center would be empty. Also, there can be between 0-10 visiting trainers, never 11. And it doesn't seem to make me think it increases, since usually any min-max is listed that same way, minimum then maximum, though that could be just my opinion. [[User:Bluesun|Bluesun]] 21:00, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
::Bluesun is correct. The 12 people number are the ones that are permanent, such as the Pokemon Center and the gate buildings. However, I don't know anything about it decreasing/increasing over time because I don't have Black Version yet. I will fix it if it is wrong once I get Black. :] [[User:Han Ji-Wan|Han Ji-Wan]] 22:22, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

== Missing Some Trainers ==

Hello! I just want to start off by asking if anyone can add the male Ace Trainer with the Magmortar? I don't know how...

Second, when my game's season changed to Winter, I lost a bunch of trainers and the mall, and the buildings in town changed dramatically. I didn't get the chance to visit my brother's White Forest last month to try inviting more trainers- is that the reason? Now it's Spring, and Black City hasn't changed. I still only have Staraptor guy, Porygon-Z dude, and Nursery Aide Miho. (Who thinks a Shiftry is cute? Seriously!) By the way, after I had talked to every trainer in my bro's White Forest during our games' Autumn month, I had a total of only 9 trainers outside. What am I supposed to do? --[[User:Jade 2010|Green Jade]] 23:05, 1 May 2011 (UTC)
:You keep talking to them. If you don't talk to them and battle them, they gradually go away. And to add a trainer, we need to know direct stats: trainer's name, and gender and level of his Magmortar. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * [[User talk:ArcToraphim|the Arc Toraph]] 23:16, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

Okay. As soon as I see him again (if someone else doesn't beat me to it) I'll let you know. I don't have him right now. Nice to meet you! ;) --[[User:Jade 2010|Green Jade]] 01:48, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

Well, someone beat me to it, after all. Eh, no biggy. I mean it never really mattered to me who put it up. I just want pages to be complete. I'll keep my eye out for any unmentioned trainers. --[[User:Jade 2010|Green Jade]] 15:23, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

WAIT! I have one already! I battled him way earlier this morning so I don't know the prize money yet, but I have other info. Scientist Jacques, Nidoqueen lv. 50. --[[User:Jade 2010|Green Jade]] 18:12, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Oh, and he uses Dire Hit at the beginning of every battle. --[[User:Jade 2010|Green Jade]] 18:14, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Ok, I have it. He rewards you 2400 when you beat him. --[[User:Jade 2010|Green Jade]] 18:46, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

== Order of Trainers ==

There seems to be no logical order to the trainer list. Alphabetical, or maybe alphabetical by trainer class, or by the level of their Pokémon? It would also be handy to have the items associated with each trainer next to their info. [[User:Geekvixen|Geekvixen]] 22:15, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
:Their trainer order is listed how the in-game text arranged their spoken lines. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * [[User talk:ArcToraphim|the Arc Toraph]] 23:34, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

== Pokécam ==
Pokécam!!!! i have only got 5 traners and people and my city is not changeing at all it stays the same i have done the money thing is well but i cant buy stones why i want one {{unsigned|Pokecam!!!!}}

[[User:Pokecam!!!!|Pokecam!!!!]] 11:50, 17 June 2011 (UTC) i need help i have only 5 traners and my city do not change and i whant to buy stones but i cant i done the money thing form the guy but it takes me days to do help pls

:The trainers do not change except to leave Black City if you don't talk/battle them once a day. As for stones, you simply do not have the trainers that produce them. And you sign with <nowiki>~~~~, not {{welcome}}.</nowiki> [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * [[User talk:ArcToraphim|the Arc Toraph]] 11:53, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

i know but i have beten 25 people but 5 a day each the same and why does my city not change i have talked to them each day i whant new people and i have not got white so i do i do it? pls help {{unsigned|Pokecam!!!!}}

my city dose not change help help help i whant it to change i got there in 2 days(playing wise) didt play for 2 days then played and completed and only got 5 trainers grrrr i got there in 2 days technicly so why and it does not change why help now pls {{unsigned|Pokecam!!!!}}

:It doesn't matter how many times you beat the trainers. The only way to get new trainers is hooking up with someone who has White and trainers in their White Forest. There really is no other way of doing it. The city only worsens on its own, not gets better. And signing your comments after you post isn't the want to do it; it messes up the timestamp. So make sure you sign them before you post your talk page comments. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * [[User talk:ArcToraphim|the Arc Toraph]] 12:07, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

[[User:Pokecam!!!!|Pokecam!!!!]] 12:13, 17 June 2011 (UTC) better ok so why does the city not change a guy says it changes dayily and looks like a creacher so why dont mine is it to do with the sessons sorry cant spell [[User:Pokecam!!!!|Pokecam!!!!]] 12:13, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

:It can change daily through people leaving, and through obtaining people through White. When someone comes or goes, the city itself changes, with more or less buildings because of it. Also, the trainers become rebattleable each day, which is sort of a change. Also that you got there and there were only 5 people left would mean that the game thought you took 6 days or more to get there, and it does count days you don't play. [[User:Bluesun|Bluesun]] 12:23, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
::The ten trainers you get when you start the game are random. They all have set disappearing rates. If you /really/ got to Black City in 2 days, you should have ten trainers, because they don't start leaving until day four at the earliest (of real-life time; the countdown starts when you first turn the game on, and goes by the DS time system). And it doesn't change daily. It only changes if you ignore the trainers for too long and the trainers begin to disappear. So yeah, what blusun said. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * [[User talk:ArcToraphim|the Arc Toraph]] 12:25, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
== What do you men by number of days?==
total play time in hours or lets say I starterted on june 13 and finished on the 20th. and if the second, does the population increase as time goes by, or does it decrease? Please help me!! [[User:Luxraychu|Luxraychu]] 17:28, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
:Days since you begun the game, as in, there are ten people on the 13th, 14th, 15th, 16th, some people leave, 17th, 18th, some people leave, 19th, 20th, you arrive. I don't know why everyone gets confused by it but people never come to the City without Entralinking with another game. [[User:Bluesun|Bluesun]] 17:39, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

== Frequency of Trainer battles ==

How often can you battle the Trainers here? I assume once per day? The article doesn't specify (which it should).--[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 07:27, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
:Once per day for the residents, once and never again for the two in the market. [[User:Bluesun|Bluesun]] 16:05, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

== Sale Value of Items from Black City Market ==

When one buys an item in the Black City market, does anybody know if it is sold at 1/2 price or the 1/2 price of its regular value? For instance, if I were to purchase a Nugget, would I sell it for $25,000 or $4,900 like one does at an ordinary PokéMart? {{unsigned|Squirrelfeet}}
:They sell for half the regular value. Meaning your nugget would sell for 4,900. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * [[User talk:ArcToraphim|the Arc Toraph]] 14:55, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

== Point values ==

OK, so the article lists the conditions that will alter the amount of points each trainer has, and states that once the point value hits zero, the trainer leaves. That's good. What I notice it's lacking, though, is the number of points each trainer starts with in the first place. Obviously not zero, or else you'd have to beat the game in less than 24 hours to have anyone in Black City. But I haven't found this sort of information anywhere. - ''unsigned comment from [[User:Missingno. Master|Missingno. Master]] ([[User talk:Missingno. Master|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Missingno._Master|contribs]])'' 18:58, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
:[http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/showpost.php?p=2979148 Here]. Very High = initially 20, High = initially 30, Low = initially 70, Very Low = initially 80. [[User:Bluesun|Bluesun]] 22:52, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
::Alrighty, then! I'll try and add this information to the article. - ''unsigned comment from [[User:Missingno. Master|Missingno. Master]] ([[User talk:Missingno. Master|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Missingno._Master|contribs]])'' 00:05, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

== NPC Trainer dialogue ==

Whenever I talk to an NPC Trainer after battling them in Black City, they say something like "Black City changes every day. I love that about this place!" or "I'm thinking about going somewhere else soon," which make it sound like they're going to disappear soon or stay for a while.

For the record, the ones that sound like they may leave soon are Carlos, Ken, and Lynette; the one that sounds like he's going to stick around is Robbie. Carlos, Ken, and Lynette were there when I first arrived in Black City, and I didn't battle them very much until I visited a friend's White Forest and invited Robbie. Carlos, Ken, and Lynette should have a low point value, and Robbie should have a high one, and that fits with their dialogue.

I just want to hear what anyone else has noticed before I do something like write in the actual article. [[User:Dimenticare|Dimenticare]] ([[User talk:Dimenticare|talk]]) 02:37, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
:Given that the article identifies that Trainers come and go, I don't think the dialogue is too notable. --[[User:Spriteit|Spriteit]] ([[User talk:Spriteit|talk]]) 15:22, 17 August 2012
(UTC)

== Black Skyscraper trainer catalouge ==
--[[User:Mastervictini|Mastervictini]] ([[User talk:Mastervictini|talk]]) 22:53, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
We need data on the trainers encounterable in the Black Skyscraper.
== Shops in Black city ==
We also need data on what we can buy in Black City in Pokémon Black 2 and Pokémon White 2.

Talk:Black City

2012-08-18T22:53:43Z

Mastervictini: Black Skyscraper trainer catalouge

''Italic text''== Mother reference ==

Black city resembles a cross of Moonslide from Earth bound and New Pork City from Mother 3, and White forest looks like the Sunshine forest also from Mother 3. Possibly useful for trivia?
[[User:Ghost chimera|Ghost chimera]] 08:06, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
:No, because minor visual similarities like this really aren't notable. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 13:28, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

== Mistreatment ==

It's really annoying how Bulbapedia treats Black City as a normal city and always groups it with other cities. This doesn't fit this place's real role at all. And it fails to present the most important thing - that Black City is a counterpart to White Forest. It's really nosense to group Black City with cities/towns just because it has "City" in the name. It's actually a dungeon, like White Forest. Black City and White Forest belong together. The current treatment of Black City really, really bugs me. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 16:24, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

== What happens without any people? ==
Back when I played Black in Japanese when it came out, I took ages to get to Black City, and so by the time I got there, everything was gone. Even the Market. All that was there was the Pokemon Center and the odd unenterable buildings in the top left. Yet when I tried to edit the article to show this, I got reverted by Han Ji-Wan. There obviously is some way to not have a market, as the guide shows a Black City without one (page 208), and I had a Black City without a market for 5 months or so. So I guess, could anyone confirm what makes the market disappear and edit the article accordingly? I've tried time travelling just now but can't seem to empty out the city for some reason. [[User:Bluesun|Bluesun]] 03:55, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
:Whoops. My bad. I just undid your edit without thinking. I apologize for that. --[[User:Han Ji-Wan|Han Ji-Wan]] 04:05, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
::Ah, alright, thanks. Ignore the first part of my newest edit summary then, sorry, I didn't see you had reverted. Would be a bit pointless for there to be a market that didn't sell anything because there was nobody visiting though, I guess. [[User:Bluesun|Bluesun]] 04:25, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
:::See I don't think this is all true as I came into the City with three trainers and still no market.--[[User:Random Disinformation|Random Disinformation]] 22:58, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
::::So what exactly is not true? My original point was that there were times when there is no market, which seems to also be your point. [[User:Bluesun|Bluesun]] 13:05, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
:::::The article says when you have one or more trainers that the market appears. I have entered the city with 3 trainers. No Market. I am trying to find out how to unlock the Market.--[[User:Random Disinformation|Random Disinformation]] 18:52, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
::::::Ah, derp. Didn't notice that. How's this, since we don't know the exact number at the moment? If it helps, the game of mine with the least amount of trainers currently has eight trainers and has the market. [[User:Bluesun|Bluesun]] 20:44, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
:::::::Cool. I will update when I find out how many trainers it takes. Don't know how long that will take though, as I don't know anyone here with the White Version.--[[User:Random Disinformation|Random Disinformation]] 20:52, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
::::::::I added NPCs one by one and the market appears with 4 or more NPCs.
::::::::[[User:Nuzzle|Nuzzle]] 00:28, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
:::::::::Sweet, thanks. I haven't been able to find someone that I can do all this with yet.--[[User:Random Disinformation|Random Disinformation]] 17:55, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

== Number of residents not accurate ==

"The number of residents can vary between 12 (minimum occupancy) and 45 (maximum occupancy), 12 of them being Trainers at the maximum."

That is patently false. The minimum number of residents is 0, plain and simple, as demonstrated by the previous comments. I have no idea where the 12 comes from but I have 0 residents and I have seen on the internet a lot of reports of 3-11 residents.

Also, it would be great to indicate that the number of people in the city '''decreases''' over time, rather than increasing as one would assume from the current formulation.

[[User:Magicguigz|Magicguigz]] 19:31, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
:The twelve comes from counting the people there when there are no visiting trainers. If as you say there were 0, even the Pokémon Center would be empty. Also, there can be between 0-10 visiting trainers, never 11. And it doesn't seem to make me think it increases, since usually any min-max is listed that same way, minimum then maximum, though that could be just my opinion. [[User:Bluesun|Bluesun]] 21:00, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
::Bluesun is correct. The 12 people number are the ones that are permanent, such as the Pokemon Center and the gate buildings. However, I don't know anything about it decreasing/increasing over time because I don't have Black Version yet. I will fix it if it is wrong once I get Black. :] [[User:Han Ji-Wan|Han Ji-Wan]] 22:22, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

== Missing Some Trainers ==

Hello! I just want to start off by asking if anyone can add the male Ace Trainer with the Magmortar? I don't know how...

Second, when my game's season changed to Winter, I lost a bunch of trainers and the mall, and the buildings in town changed dramatically. I didn't get the chance to visit my brother's White Forest last month to try inviting more trainers- is that the reason? Now it's Spring, and Black City hasn't changed. I still only have Staraptor guy, Porygon-Z dude, and Nursery Aide Miho. (Who thinks a Shiftry is cute? Seriously!) By the way, after I had talked to every trainer in my bro's White Forest during our games' Autumn month, I had a total of only 9 trainers outside. What am I supposed to do? --[[User:Jade 2010|Green Jade]] 23:05, 1 May 2011 (UTC)
:You keep talking to them. If you don't talk to them and battle them, they gradually go away. And to add a trainer, we need to know direct stats: trainer's name, and gender and level of his Magmortar. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * [[User talk:ArcToraphim|the Arc Toraph]] 23:16, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

Okay. As soon as I see him again (if someone else doesn't beat me to it) I'll let you know. I don't have him right now. Nice to meet you! ;) --[[User:Jade 2010|Green Jade]] 01:48, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

Well, someone beat me to it, after all. Eh, no biggy. I mean it never really mattered to me who put it up. I just want pages to be complete. I'll keep my eye out for any unmentioned trainers. --[[User:Jade 2010|Green Jade]] 15:23, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

WAIT! I have one already! I battled him way earlier this morning so I don't know the prize money yet, but I have other info. Scientist Jacques, Nidoqueen lv. 50. --[[User:Jade 2010|Green Jade]] 18:12, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Oh, and he uses Dire Hit at the beginning of every battle. --[[User:Jade 2010|Green Jade]] 18:14, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Ok, I have it. He rewards you 2400 when you beat him. --[[User:Jade 2010|Green Jade]] 18:46, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

== Order of Trainers ==

There seems to be no logical order to the trainer list. Alphabetical, or maybe alphabetical by trainer class, or by the level of their Pokémon? It would also be handy to have the items associated with each trainer next to their info. [[User:Geekvixen|Geekvixen]] 22:15, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
:Their trainer order is listed how the in-game text arranged their spoken lines. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * [[User talk:ArcToraphim|the Arc Toraph]] 23:34, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

== Pokécam ==
Pokécam!!!! i have only got 5 traners and people and my city is not changeing at all it stays the same i have done the money thing is well but i cant buy stones why i want one {{unsigned|Pokecam!!!!}}

[[User:Pokecam!!!!|Pokecam!!!!]] 11:50, 17 June 2011 (UTC) i need help i have only 5 traners and my city do not change and i whant to buy stones but i cant i done the money thing form the guy but it takes me days to do help pls

:The trainers do not change except to leave Black City if you don't talk/battle them once a day. As for stones, you simply do not have the trainers that produce them. And you sign with <nowiki>~~~~, not {{welcome}}.</nowiki> [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * [[User talk:ArcToraphim|the Arc Toraph]] 11:53, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

i know but i have beten 25 people but 5 a day each the same and why does my city not change i have talked to them each day i whant new people and i have not got white so i do i do it? pls help {{unsigned|Pokecam!!!!}}

my city dose not change help help help i whant it to change i got there in 2 days(playing wise) didt play for 2 days then played and completed and only got 5 trainers grrrr i got there in 2 days technicly so why and it does not change why help now pls {{unsigned|Pokecam!!!!}}

:It doesn't matter how many times you beat the trainers. The only way to get new trainers is hooking up with someone who has White and trainers in their White Forest. There really is no other way of doing it. The city only worsens on its own, not gets better. And signing your comments after you post isn't the want to do it; it messes up the timestamp. So make sure you sign them before you post your talk page comments. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * [[User talk:ArcToraphim|the Arc Toraph]] 12:07, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

[[User:Pokecam!!!!|Pokecam!!!!]] 12:13, 17 June 2011 (UTC) better ok so why does the city not change a guy says it changes dayily and looks like a creacher so why dont mine is it to do with the sessons sorry cant spell [[User:Pokecam!!!!|Pokecam!!!!]] 12:13, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

:It can change daily through people leaving, and through obtaining people through White. When someone comes or goes, the city itself changes, with more or less buildings because of it. Also, the trainers become rebattleable each day, which is sort of a change. Also that you got there and there were only 5 people left would mean that the game thought you took 6 days or more to get there, and it does count days you don't play. [[User:Bluesun|Bluesun]] 12:23, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
::The ten trainers you get when you start the game are random. They all have set disappearing rates. If you /really/ got to Black City in 2 days, you should have ten trainers, because they don't start leaving until day four at the earliest (of real-life time; the countdown starts when you first turn the game on, and goes by the DS time system). And it doesn't change daily. It only changes if you ignore the trainers for too long and the trainers begin to disappear. So yeah, what blusun said. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * [[User talk:ArcToraphim|the Arc Toraph]] 12:25, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
== What do you men by number of days?==
total play time in hours or lets say I starterted on june 13 and finished on the 20th. and if the second, does the population increase as time goes by, or does it decrease? Please help me!! [[User:Luxraychu|Luxraychu]] 17:28, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
:Days since you begun the game, as in, there are ten people on the 13th, 14th, 15th, 16th, some people leave, 17th, 18th, some people leave, 19th, 20th, you arrive. I don't know why everyone gets confused by it but people never come to the City without Entralinking with another game. [[User:Bluesun|Bluesun]] 17:39, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

== Frequency of Trainer battles ==

How often can you battle the Trainers here? I assume once per day? The article doesn't specify (which it should).--[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 07:27, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
:Once per day for the residents, once and never again for the two in the market. [[User:Bluesun|Bluesun]] 16:05, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

== Sale Value of Items from Black City Market ==

When one buys an item in the Black City market, does anybody know if it is sold at 1/2 price or the 1/2 price of its regular value? For instance, if I were to purchase a Nugget, would I sell it for $25,000 or $4,900 like one does at an ordinary PokéMart? {{unsigned|Squirrelfeet}}
:They sell for half the regular value. Meaning your nugget would sell for 4,900. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * [[User talk:ArcToraphim|the Arc Toraph]] 14:55, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

== Point values ==

OK, so the article lists the conditions that will alter the amount of points each trainer has, and states that once the point value hits zero, the trainer leaves. That's good. What I notice it's lacking, though, is the number of points each trainer starts with in the first place. Obviously not zero, or else you'd have to beat the game in less than 24 hours to have anyone in Black City. But I haven't found this sort of information anywhere. - ''unsigned comment from [[User:Missingno. Master|Missingno. Master]] ([[User talk:Missingno. Master|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Missingno._Master|contribs]])'' 18:58, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
:[http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/showpost.php?p=2979148 Here]. Very High = initially 20, High = initially 30, Low = initially 70, Very Low = initially 80. [[User:Bluesun|Bluesun]] 22:52, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
::Alrighty, then! I'll try and add this information to the article. - ''unsigned comment from [[User:Missingno. Master|Missingno. Master]] ([[User talk:Missingno. Master|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Missingno._Master|contribs]])'' 00:05, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

== NPC Trainer dialogue ==

Whenever I talk to an NPC Trainer after battling them in Black City, they say something like "Black City changes every day. I love that about this place!" or "I'm thinking about going somewhere else soon," which make it sound like they're going to disappear soon or stay for a while.

For the record, the ones that sound like they may leave soon are Carlos, Ken, and Lynette; the one that sounds like he's going to stick around is Robbie. Carlos, Ken, and Lynette were there when I first arrived in Black City, and I didn't battle them very much until I visited a friend's White Forest and invited Robbie. Carlos, Ken, and Lynette should have a low point value, and Robbie should have a high one, and that fits with their dialogue.

I just want to hear what anyone else has noticed before I do something like write in the actual article. [[User:Dimenticare|Dimenticare]] ([[User talk:Dimenticare|talk]]) 02:37, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
:Given that the article identifies that Trainers come and go, I don't think the dialogue is too notable. --[[User:Spriteit|Spriteit]] ([[User talk:Spriteit|talk]]) 15:22, 17 August 2012
(UTC)

== Black Skyscraper trainer catalouge ==
--[[User:Mastervictini|Mastervictini]] ([[User talk:Mastervictini|talk]]) 22:53, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
We need data on the trainers encounterable in the Black Skyscraper.

Talk:Tier

2012-08-18T22:36:32Z

Mastervictini: /* Links */

'''Due to a decision to remove an article based entirely on opinions, the current article reflects the definition of each tier, and what they stand for.'''

__toc__
==Archives==
* [[Talk:Tier/Archive 1|Archive 1]] (discussions from July 3, 2007–October 9, 2008) - Pre-tier
* [[Talk:Tier/Archive 2|Archive 2]] (discussions from October 9–November 10, 2008) - Pre-tier

The previous archives are related to when the page was an appendix list of actual tiers.

== Please ==

Someone needs to move this article back to the <code>Appendix:</code> name space, where it belongs. Someone '''please''' do so. [[user:chocolate|Cho]][[user talk:chocolate|col]][[special:contributions/chocolate|ate]] 02:51, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
:it is no longer an appendix based on opinions, it is a factual page now. -- '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAG]][[User:MAGNEDETH#Interesting Stuff|NE]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|DETH]]''' 02:53, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
::The <code>Appendix:</code> is for fan stuff that not everyone agrees with. The tiers are by no means official, which is why it should be in the <code>Appendix:</code> name space. [[user:chocolate|Cho]][[user talk:chocolate|col]][[special:contributions/chocolate|ate]] 02:54, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
:::uh, yea, thats right. but as you can see, the BP tiers no longer exist. the "Tiers" exist as a term based in the Pokemon community; as in, its a fact they exist. rather than have a giant list that sparked enough debate for the ages, weve gotten rid of it in favor of factual definitions. it was approved by multiple EB members. i fail to see what youre so upset about. -- '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAG]][[User:MAGNEDETH#Interesting Stuff|NE]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|DETH]]''' 02:58, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
::::Precisely, this article is explaining exactly what tiers are, rather than giving a list of where each Pokémon belongs in a tier, which is indeed fandom. There is nothing wrong with this page explaining terms to those who don't know about them. [[User:GlinnMgraw|Glinn]] [[User_talk:GlinnMgraw|Mgraw]] 03:02, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

== A few fixes? ==

As a competitive battler quite a few things jump out at me as needing fixes.

Ubers:
Wobbufet is not uncountable due to CounterCoat (Many others get this combo, Swampert for example) but due to the definition of counter requiring the ability to switch in and the fact that (outside of Batton Pass/U-turn, Shed Shell and another Wobby switching out) nothing can switch into it. It is also not an Uber by all tier lists (the Official Sever on Shoddy allows it in OU matches) so may not be the best choice as an example, but it is interesting so should stay IMO but with a clear mention that it is listed as Uber by many but not all sources.

Wynaut is not banned from OU due to its own battling powers, but rather due to its fully evolved form being Uber. Many lists allow Pre-Evos of Ubers and so allow Wynaut.

Garchomp has been classed as Uber by Smogon and most other lists followed suit, but not all. Also Chompy was banned for many other very complicated reasons which I would think that Bulbapedia would not want to go into (Overcentralization, almost always getting at least 1 kill, extreme popularity, ect). The reasons listed "high stats, movepool, and low amount of weaknesses" could be applyed to many other OUs.

I will post suggestions for the other sections when I have time [[User:Eric the espeon|Eric the espeon]] 21:27, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
:Yeah, only the problem with that idea is that we aren't listing the Pokémon in each tier anymore--The [[Blastoise (Pokémon)|Kk]][[Gary's Blastoise|ll]][[Blastoise (TCG)|nn]][[User:Kkllnn|ator]] [[User Talk:Kkllnn| blastoise]] 21:29, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

== Defining Tiers ==

I have a request.

Can we provide three things to this article?

Tiers - The correct definition of Tiers
Tier Lists - The current definition of Tiers would fall under the term Tier List
Skill - A warning for people on how to interpret Tier Lists

Tiers: Tiers are an idea, which states that some objects with certain value(s) are greater than other objects bound by laws. In the case of Pokemon, this would mean that certain Pokemon are better than other Pokemon at playing the game. What is the game? The game is Pokemon battling. What is the goal? The goal is to defeat the other team of Pokemon. If Pokemon A can contribute more to the final goal than Pokemon B, then A would be considered a higher Tier than B. In most games, balance is impossible, unless the two characters/cars/objects are exactly the same, or if the differences are quantifiable and measurable. For example, a fighting game in which two fighters, A and B, do damage to each other continuously over a time would be equal if A did 1 damage every 1/2 of a second and B did 2 damage every 1 second. However, in Pokemon, stats are extremely difficult to measure, and due to the large variance in even the same Pokemon (due to IVs, EVs, Natures, and, especially, movesets), it is difficult to measure them. Yet, because it is difficult to measure them, it is difficult to balance them. Pokemon is an unbalanced game. So, for Pokemon, the existence and idea of Tiers are a fact. In fact, Tiers have a bigger impact on Pokemon due to the wild variances between statistics and due to the fact that Pokemon is a turn-based game and that one can have 6, unbalanced characters on their team. For example, Flamethrower is a superior move to Ember. Tyranitar nearly 100% outclasses Absol in physical sweeping ability, 100% outclasses it in support ability (due to Sandstorm), completely outclasses it in special sweeping, completely outclasses it as a physical wall, completely outclasses it as a special wall, and has better synergy with it's team of 5 other Pokemon. Thus, we can easily say that Tyranitar does more to aid in reaching the goal than Absol, and Tyranitar is definitively a better Pokemon than Absol.

Tier Lists: Tier Lists are the opinions. Tier Lists are an effort to quantify Tiers. Tier Lists usually have more restrictions on them than the game originally comes with, and those restrictions are collectively known as a metagame. For example, Smogon's standard list comes with the restriction of banning Pokemon they have deemed as especially overpowered and overcentralizing to the metagame, such as Mewtwo or Deoxys-Attack Forme. In the game of Pokemon, Pokemon who have a low-risk, high return on the user's part are banned by Smogon. The metagame also represents the usage of certain strategies, and those strategies are not used often without reason. The move Pursuit is notable. If it weren't for the prevalence of Pursuit, Celebi would be considered Uber, or too overpowered. However, due to the large presence of Psychic-types, who are usually the premier special sweepers but physically frail, Pursuit has worked hand in hand with the boosted usage of strong, physical Dark-types. Due to Pursuit being omnipresent in the metagame, Celebi is considered OU. In Pokemon, there also exist counters. Most games have counters, as some characters have natural advantages that would help them defeat other characters. This is extremely significant in Pokemon, and is more obvious in one on one battles between Pokemon. A Glaceon may be considered a counter to Garchomp. Glaceon also has a high Defense, allowing it to sometimes switch into Garchomp, especially it's commonly used Earthquake or even Outrage, take the next shot of Earthquake or Outrage, then OHKO it with Ice Beam. However, this does not mean Garchomp is a worse Pokemon. In fact, Garchomp has easy ways to defeat it's counters, by way of attacks such as Swords Dance or Fire Fang. Plus, Garchomp contributes more to it's team than Glaceon. Garchomp has a wider range of resists and has higher HP, and can actually take physical hits better than Glaceon, despite it's physical defense being it's best stat, and can easily KO more Pokemon than Glaceon. Garchomp is a better Pokemon than Glaceon in the Smogon metagame, and thus is reflected in their Tier Lists. In fact, Garchomp is a better Pokemon in the Official Nintendo metagame, as the only differences between the Smogon and Nintendo metagame are the ban list, However, if there was a metagame in which Earthquake, Outrage, Dragon Claw, Fire Fang, and Swords Dance could not be used, then Glaceon would be a better Pokemon than Garchomp.

Skill: Although I wrote this here last, this should probably go near the top of the article. This is the main warning for those reading this article. It should be said that Skill is always a higher deciding factor in most video games. A more skilled player will usually triumph over a less skilled player. Indications of less skill would include things such as teaching Earthquake to a Pokemon with low Attack Power, using Earthquake on a Pokemon with Levitate, etc, etc. Skill differences would also include predicting ability, teaching a Pokemon certain movesets, learning to use certain moves at certain times, knowing when the switch, using Pokemon to their best roles, etc, etc. When player A uses Pokemon who are more powerful than the Pokemon on player B's team, player B simply is simply less likely to win. Through good prediction, good movesets, etc, player B can always defeat player A. As another example, even though there is a prevalence of teams full of sweepers, Pokemon designed to KO as many other Pokemon as possible, it is still possible to win using other methods, such as Baton Passing with Pokemon who aren't considered high up on a Tier List, such as Medicham and Smeargle, or Stalling, with "UU" Pokemon such as Weezing.

I hope this wasn't too much to read. To be honest, I was sifting through the archives and noticed people saying "Tiers are BS" and I sort of wanted to clear it up, and maybe see if they were willing to read the other side of the argument, and see that they had some notions which were flat out wrong.

I also want to make the argument about articles being bad because they are opinions; for one, tiers aren't opinions. Tier Lists might be opinions. However, there is a true and clear concept for tiers. It's good to see the Tier List gone, because that's not Bulbapedia's job, but the previous arguments bashing it for being opinions might have been valid if it weren't for the fact that Shipping articles have a place on Bulbapedia. But, a Shipping article are about an idea supported by some purported facts, and Tiers are an idea supported by purported facts. Every game information site that has a competitive flavor to it should have an article on tiers, and explain them in the context of the game.

Hopefully, we can agree to a base definition for Skill, Tiers, and Tier Lists that can be on the page. The Skill part would be sort of a warning to people who supposedly want to choose a team based on the tiers. We might also want to remove Smogon's definitions for UU, BL, OU, etc. Instead of referencing Smogon, we could simply state that there are Pokemon who are clearly used very much, such as Gengar and Infernape, and Pokemon who are not used very often, such as Luvdisc, and mention ban lists. Thus, there would be no need to go into BL, which is 100% a "fanon" thing.

[[User: GoldenBattler | GoldenBattler]]

:Congratulations. Encyclopedia. We don't do recommended movesets, we don't have a tier list. We just give the people the facts about each and every Pokémon and let them decide what they wanna use. Better than the tier thing anyway. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 09:03, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

::Well, I didn't really expect you to read that wall, but you clearly didn't get the point. Who said something about recommended movesets? Nobody. Who said something about your tier list? I did, but I stated that I was glad that Bulbapedia's tier list was gone. I was simply asking for a better definition of tiers, and I also want the whole "Tiers are opinions" mindset, which is false, to go away. [[User: GoldenBattler | GoldenBattler]]

== Legendaries and Ubers ==

Could someone who can edit this page add a note in the Ubers section saying not all legendaries are Ubers? I'm getting rather sick of people telling me off because I use legendaries that are part of OU/UU. Thanks. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 19:34, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

==NU==
the article says that smogon doesn't have a NU tier anymore, but in fact they have recently added it again, so can an administrator remove that from the article? Oh and another thing, who knows what somogon's limbo tier means? [[User:Mijzelffan|Mijzelffan]] 18:11, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

==Thick Club==
Can somebody please edit out the comment that says Marowak's Thick Club "doubles its base Attack to 160"? That's erroneous. Thick Club doubles the actual stat, not the base stat. --[[User:Razzia|Frost]] 06:59, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

== Remove protection. And almost everything is wrong. ==

This article is bad. And it is the second page appearing in a google search on tier list, after the smash bros tiers. This page should be improved and be made correct, instead of giving false information.

The protection should be removed. Why is it protected? Because of a couple of vandalisms every week? I guess it wasn't even vandalism. But anyways, to revert a few vandalisms every week is not much work. People here are so lazy if the can't bother to do that. Even every day would not be too much for someone who has it in their watchlist, if they visit bulbapedia every day. Someone should fix the artile. But noone can, because it is protected. And the admins don't even bother to fix the errors that have been pointed out, many months ago. This is probably the most important exxplaination of the tier lists in pokémon, but it is so wrong. It should be correct, and give a good explaination. But no ...

Some of the problems is:
There are two ways the tier lists is made, by different sites. It is the 4. gen Smogon way, and most people follow the Smogon list, and it is the way all other tier lists are made, by theorymoning and guessing. The borderline section in the article only reflects the other way.

Wrong information. Toxicroak is UU because of all the psychic moves in OU? That is wrong. It is botherline because it is mostly outclassed by Lucario and other fighting types. As mentioned before, the error with doubling the base stat of Marowak. Wynaut and Wobbuffet are not uber because of Counter and Mirror Coat. They are uber because of Encore.

The mention of Smogon getting rid of the NU tier is also wrong. It has been known for more than a year that they were going to remake the UU tier and add the NU tier after that. And the reasoning for getting rid of it is dumb. What does physical/special split have to do with the NU tier? It isn't llocical in any way. [[User:Graut|Graut]] 21:45, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
:this was supposed to be only a timed protection, but for some reason it wasnt. now, i dont mind if you edit the page, but will '''not''' let you use your horrible grammar and spelling on the page, so be advised. -- '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAG]][[User:MAGNEDETH#Interesting Stuff|NE]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|DETH]]''' 21:53, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
::I can't write any better, so I should probably not write anything. [[User:Graut|Graut]] 22:11, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

== I disagree with much of the recent changes. ==

I think parts of the recent changes is bad. I am not going to correct it now, but you will have my reasoning if I do later.

Ninjask? It isn't very neutral to say it may be the best baton passer. I think most people would agree Gliscor is the best one. Ninjask is one of the worst. The only thing keeping Ninjask in OU is new players using it. If it dropped from OU it would probably drop all the way down to NU, because there are less new players in UU. Ninjask is one of the bad pokémon kept in OU just because bad players think it is good. And Ninjask has a really bad support movepool. At least not good. The only support it has is baton pass. No screens, taunt, stealth rock, wish, anything.

Kingler is not UU by the Smogon Tier List, but NU. I tried to just mention pokémon that both Smogon and other agree are UU. Actually I don't know about any other tier lists than the smogon, so it would be nice if someone could link to it, well, there are some which hasn't been updated since 2007 or 2008, but something still updated. I also think Smogon is important enough to keep Kingler from being mentioned. Smogon should be at least 50 % weighted in the article, unless somebody can link a popular, updated tier list. And thus, NU pokémon in Smogon lists should not be listed as UU. I went the other way when I made new examples. I didn't put Mismagius or Blaziken there, to make the article for more than just Smogon.

Why compleatly remove Medicham and Porygon2 from the NU? NU is more than Luvdisc and Delibird. [[User:Graut|Graut]] 00:59, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
:This is why I hate tiers. This article should have the Pokémon examples removed... [[User:CuboneKing|Cu]][[User talk:CuboneKing|bo]][[Special:Contributions/CuboneKing|ne]][[Cubone (Pokémon)|King]] 01:03, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

== Garchomp and Shedinja. ==

Perhaps Shedinja ought to have a mention in the uber catebory. I know it is debated as to whether Shedinja's uber or NU and that Smogon says NU, but perhaps it ought to have a little mention all the same. Garchomp is debatable as to its tier, but most of the debate was sparked from Smogon's classification of classification as uber (I really don't know why they bother). Perhaps a more general term should be used, such as pseudo-legendary. Just a thought. --[[User:Hyurnat4|Hyurnat4]] 22:32, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
:were trying to leave out as many Pokemon as we can. it just creates arguments. Garchomp is listed, but simply as a "some people" consideration. Tiers in general are a giant "some people" so its fine the way it is. -- '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAG]][[User:MAGNEDETH#Interesting Stuff|NE]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|DETH]]''' 23:08, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

== Salamence ==
Can it please be noted that Salamence is only an Uber on certain tier lists, such as Smogon's? Because right now Smogon is the only place I've seen it moved to the Uber list, and while Smogon is certainly an authority when it comes to competitive Pokémon battling, they are not the only website that has a tier list.--[[User:Phantomjunkie|Phantom]][[User talk:Phantomjunkie|Junkie]] 16:24, 17 July 2010 (UTC)
:I see above me that Garchomp is supposed to be listed as a "Some people" uber, but the sentence that contains both Garchomp and Salamence is a very factual "These Pokémon are Ubers because of this." No mention of "some people" or "some tier lists."--[[User:Phantomjunkie|Phantom]][[User talk:Phantomjunkie|Junkie]] 16:26, 17 July 2010 (UTC)
::Done. For people adding things in future, remeber all specific examples should be listed as possibilities, to account for differences between tier lists and to prevent edit wars. Also, the number of specific examples should be kept to a minimum for the same reason. <sc>[[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]]</sc> [[User talk:Werdnae|(talk)]] 20:30, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

== Links ==

I don't think this subject would be so controversially if links or collapsible text boxes were used so that people could read the rationales. The original article was just a list with no description of why Pokémon were added there. --[[User talk:Venomoth|☯ ]][[User:Venomoth|*Ɣℯ№ӎօṫհ*]][[User talk:Venomoth| ☯]] 17:15, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
:The placement still causes too much arguing, even if there is an explanation. Just look at what happens on Smogon whenever they decide to change the teirs. Besides, the placement of Pokémon into teirs is opinion, and doesn't belong in the mainspace of an encyclopedia. If people want a list of Pokémon in the teirs, they con go to Smogon, which, by the way, Bulbagarden is affiliated with. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] [[User talk:Werdnae|(talk)]] 21:48, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

--[[User:Mastervictini|Mastervictini]] ([[User talk:Mastervictini|talk]]) 22:36, 18 August 2012 (UTC)Do you think we should have in-game
tiers for the mainseries games, this is supposed
to be an informative wiki so why not add
some information on which pokemon are good ingame
based on availability, movepool and other factors?

Talk:Tier

2012-08-18T22:34:43Z

Mastervictini: in-game tiers

'''Due to a decision to remove an article based entirely on opinions, the current article reflects the definition of each tier, and what they stand for.'''

__toc__
==Archives==
* [[Talk:Tier/Archive 1|Archive 1]] (discussions from July 3, 2007–October 9, 2008) - Pre-tier
* [[Talk:Tier/Archive 2|Archive 2]] (discussions from October 9–November 10, 2008) - Pre-tier

The previous archives are related to when the page was an appendix list of actual tiers.

== Please ==

Someone needs to move this article back to the <code>Appendix:</code> name space, where it belongs. Someone '''please''' do so. [[user:chocolate|Cho]][[user talk:chocolate|col]][[special:contributions/chocolate|ate]] 02:51, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
:it is no longer an appendix based on opinions, it is a factual page now. -- '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAG]][[User:MAGNEDETH#Interesting Stuff|NE]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|DETH]]''' 02:53, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
::The <code>Appendix:</code> is for fan stuff that not everyone agrees with. The tiers are by no means official, which is why it should be in the <code>Appendix:</code> name space. [[user:chocolate|Cho]][[user talk:chocolate|col]][[special:contributions/chocolate|ate]] 02:54, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
:::uh, yea, thats right. but as you can see, the BP tiers no longer exist. the "Tiers" exist as a term based in the Pokemon community; as in, its a fact they exist. rather than have a giant list that sparked enough debate for the ages, weve gotten rid of it in favor of factual definitions. it was approved by multiple EB members. i fail to see what youre so upset about. -- '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAG]][[User:MAGNEDETH#Interesting Stuff|NE]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|DETH]]''' 02:58, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
::::Precisely, this article is explaining exactly what tiers are, rather than giving a list of where each Pokémon belongs in a tier, which is indeed fandom. There is nothing wrong with this page explaining terms to those who don't know about them. [[User:GlinnMgraw|Glinn]] [[User_talk:GlinnMgraw|Mgraw]] 03:02, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

== A few fixes? ==

As a competitive battler quite a few things jump out at me as needing fixes.

Ubers:
Wobbufet is not uncountable due to CounterCoat (Many others get this combo, Swampert for example) but due to the definition of counter requiring the ability to switch in and the fact that (outside of Batton Pass/U-turn, Shed Shell and another Wobby switching out) nothing can switch into it. It is also not an Uber by all tier lists (the Official Sever on Shoddy allows it in OU matches) so may not be the best choice as an example, but it is interesting so should stay IMO but with a clear mention that it is listed as Uber by many but not all sources.

Wynaut is not banned from OU due to its own battling powers, but rather due to its fully evolved form being Uber. Many lists allow Pre-Evos of Ubers and so allow Wynaut.

Garchomp has been classed as Uber by Smogon and most other lists followed suit, but not all. Also Chompy was banned for many other very complicated reasons which I would think that Bulbapedia would not want to go into (Overcentralization, almost always getting at least 1 kill, extreme popularity, ect). The reasons listed "high stats, movepool, and low amount of weaknesses" could be applyed to many other OUs.

I will post suggestions for the other sections when I have time [[User:Eric the espeon|Eric the espeon]] 21:27, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
:Yeah, only the problem with that idea is that we aren't listing the Pokémon in each tier anymore--The [[Blastoise (Pokémon)|Kk]][[Gary's Blastoise|ll]][[Blastoise (TCG)|nn]][[User:Kkllnn|ator]] [[User Talk:Kkllnn| blastoise]] 21:29, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

== Defining Tiers ==

I have a request.

Can we provide three things to this article?

Tiers - The correct definition of Tiers
Tier Lists - The current definition of Tiers would fall under the term Tier List
Skill - A warning for people on how to interpret Tier Lists

Tiers: Tiers are an idea, which states that some objects with certain value(s) are greater than other objects bound by laws. In the case of Pokemon, this would mean that certain Pokemon are better than other Pokemon at playing the game. What is the game? The game is Pokemon battling. What is the goal? The goal is to defeat the other team of Pokemon. If Pokemon A can contribute more to the final goal than Pokemon B, then A would be considered a higher Tier than B. In most games, balance is impossible, unless the two characters/cars/objects are exactly the same, or if the differences are quantifiable and measurable. For example, a fighting game in which two fighters, A and B, do damage to each other continuously over a time would be equal if A did 1 damage every 1/2 of a second and B did 2 damage every 1 second. However, in Pokemon, stats are extremely difficult to measure, and due to the large variance in even the same Pokemon (due to IVs, EVs, Natures, and, especially, movesets), it is difficult to measure them. Yet, because it is difficult to measure them, it is difficult to balance them. Pokemon is an unbalanced game. So, for Pokemon, the existence and idea of Tiers are a fact. In fact, Tiers have a bigger impact on Pokemon due to the wild variances between statistics and due to the fact that Pokemon is a turn-based game and that one can have 6, unbalanced characters on their team. For example, Flamethrower is a superior move to Ember. Tyranitar nearly 100% outclasses Absol in physical sweeping ability, 100% outclasses it in support ability (due to Sandstorm), completely outclasses it in special sweeping, completely outclasses it as a physical wall, completely outclasses it as a special wall, and has better synergy with it's team of 5 other Pokemon. Thus, we can easily say that Tyranitar does more to aid in reaching the goal than Absol, and Tyranitar is definitively a better Pokemon than Absol.

Tier Lists: Tier Lists are the opinions. Tier Lists are an effort to quantify Tiers. Tier Lists usually have more restrictions on them than the game originally comes with, and those restrictions are collectively known as a metagame. For example, Smogon's standard list comes with the restriction of banning Pokemon they have deemed as especially overpowered and overcentralizing to the metagame, such as Mewtwo or Deoxys-Attack Forme. In the game of Pokemon, Pokemon who have a low-risk, high return on the user's part are banned by Smogon. The metagame also represents the usage of certain strategies, and those strategies are not used often without reason. The move Pursuit is notable. If it weren't for the prevalence of Pursuit, Celebi would be considered Uber, or too overpowered. However, due to the large presence of Psychic-types, who are usually the premier special sweepers but physically frail, Pursuit has worked hand in hand with the boosted usage of strong, physical Dark-types. Due to Pursuit being omnipresent in the metagame, Celebi is considered OU. In Pokemon, there also exist counters. Most games have counters, as some characters have natural advantages that would help them defeat other characters. This is extremely significant in Pokemon, and is more obvious in one on one battles between Pokemon. A Glaceon may be considered a counter to Garchomp. Glaceon also has a high Defense, allowing it to sometimes switch into Garchomp, especially it's commonly used Earthquake or even Outrage, take the next shot of Earthquake or Outrage, then OHKO it with Ice Beam. However, this does not mean Garchomp is a worse Pokemon. In fact, Garchomp has easy ways to defeat it's counters, by way of attacks such as Swords Dance or Fire Fang. Plus, Garchomp contributes more to it's team than Glaceon. Garchomp has a wider range of resists and has higher HP, and can actually take physical hits better than Glaceon, despite it's physical defense being it's best stat, and can easily KO more Pokemon than Glaceon. Garchomp is a better Pokemon than Glaceon in the Smogon metagame, and thus is reflected in their Tier Lists. In fact, Garchomp is a better Pokemon in the Official Nintendo metagame, as the only differences between the Smogon and Nintendo metagame are the ban list, However, if there was a metagame in which Earthquake, Outrage, Dragon Claw, Fire Fang, and Swords Dance could not be used, then Glaceon would be a better Pokemon than Garchomp.

Skill: Although I wrote this here last, this should probably go near the top of the article. This is the main warning for those reading this article. It should be said that Skill is always a higher deciding factor in most video games. A more skilled player will usually triumph over a less skilled player. Indications of less skill would include things such as teaching Earthquake to a Pokemon with low Attack Power, using Earthquake on a Pokemon with Levitate, etc, etc. Skill differences would also include predicting ability, teaching a Pokemon certain movesets, learning to use certain moves at certain times, knowing when the switch, using Pokemon to their best roles, etc, etc. When player A uses Pokemon who are more powerful than the Pokemon on player B's team, player B simply is simply less likely to win. Through good prediction, good movesets, etc, player B can always defeat player A. As another example, even though there is a prevalence of teams full of sweepers, Pokemon designed to KO as many other Pokemon as possible, it is still possible to win using other methods, such as Baton Passing with Pokemon who aren't considered high up on a Tier List, such as Medicham and Smeargle, or Stalling, with "UU" Pokemon such as Weezing.

I hope this wasn't too much to read. To be honest, I was sifting through the archives and noticed people saying "Tiers are BS" and I sort of wanted to clear it up, and maybe see if they were willing to read the other side of the argument, and see that they had some notions which were flat out wrong.

I also want to make the argument about articles being bad because they are opinions; for one, tiers aren't opinions. Tier Lists might be opinions. However, there is a true and clear concept for tiers. It's good to see the Tier List gone, because that's not Bulbapedia's job, but the previous arguments bashing it for being opinions might have been valid if it weren't for the fact that Shipping articles have a place on Bulbapedia. But, a Shipping article are about an idea supported by some purported facts, and Tiers are an idea supported by purported facts. Every game information site that has a competitive flavor to it should have an article on tiers, and explain them in the context of the game.

Hopefully, we can agree to a base definition for Skill, Tiers, and Tier Lists that can be on the page. The Skill part would be sort of a warning to people who supposedly want to choose a team based on the tiers. We might also want to remove Smogon's definitions for UU, BL, OU, etc. Instead of referencing Smogon, we could simply state that there are Pokemon who are clearly used very much, such as Gengar and Infernape, and Pokemon who are not used very often, such as Luvdisc, and mention ban lists. Thus, there would be no need to go into BL, which is 100% a "fanon" thing.

[[User: GoldenBattler | GoldenBattler]]

:Congratulations. Encyclopedia. We don't do recommended movesets, we don't have a tier list. We just give the people the facts about each and every Pokémon and let them decide what they wanna use. Better than the tier thing anyway. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 09:03, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

::Well, I didn't really expect you to read that wall, but you clearly didn't get the point. Who said something about recommended movesets? Nobody. Who said something about your tier list? I did, but I stated that I was glad that Bulbapedia's tier list was gone. I was simply asking for a better definition of tiers, and I also want the whole "Tiers are opinions" mindset, which is false, to go away. [[User: GoldenBattler | GoldenBattler]]

== Legendaries and Ubers ==

Could someone who can edit this page add a note in the Ubers section saying not all legendaries are Ubers? I'm getting rather sick of people telling me off because I use legendaries that are part of OU/UU. Thanks. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 19:34, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

==NU==
the article says that smogon doesn't have a NU tier anymore, but in fact they have recently added it again, so can an administrator remove that from the article? Oh and another thing, who knows what somogon's limbo tier means? [[User:Mijzelffan|Mijzelffan]] 18:11, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

==Thick Club==
Can somebody please edit out the comment that says Marowak's Thick Club "doubles its base Attack to 160"? That's erroneous. Thick Club doubles the actual stat, not the base stat. --[[User:Razzia|Frost]] 06:59, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

== Remove protection. And almost everything is wrong. ==

This article is bad. And it is the second page appearing in a google search on tier list, after the smash bros tiers. This page should be improved and be made correct, instead of giving false information.

The protection should be removed. Why is it protected? Because of a couple of vandalisms every week? I guess it wasn't even vandalism. But anyways, to revert a few vandalisms every week is not much work. People here are so lazy if the can't bother to do that. Even every day would not be too much for someone who has it in their watchlist, if they visit bulbapedia every day. Someone should fix the artile. But noone can, because it is protected. And the admins don't even bother to fix the errors that have been pointed out, many months ago. This is probably the most important exxplaination of the tier lists in pokémon, but it is so wrong. It should be correct, and give a good explaination. But no ...

Some of the problems is:
There are two ways the tier lists is made, by different sites. It is the 4. gen Smogon way, and most people follow the Smogon list, and it is the way all other tier lists are made, by theorymoning and guessing. The borderline section in the article only reflects the other way.

Wrong information. Toxicroak is UU because of all the psychic moves in OU? That is wrong. It is botherline because it is mostly outclassed by Lucario and other fighting types. As mentioned before, the error with doubling the base stat of Marowak. Wynaut and Wobbuffet are not uber because of Counter and Mirror Coat. They are uber because of Encore.

The mention of Smogon getting rid of the NU tier is also wrong. It has been known for more than a year that they were going to remake the UU tier and add the NU tier after that. And the reasoning for getting rid of it is dumb. What does physical/special split have to do with the NU tier? It isn't llocical in any way. [[User:Graut|Graut]] 21:45, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
:this was supposed to be only a timed protection, but for some reason it wasnt. now, i dont mind if you edit the page, but will '''not''' let you use your horrible grammar and spelling on the page, so be advised. -- '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAG]][[User:MAGNEDETH#Interesting Stuff|NE]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|DETH]]''' 21:53, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
::I can't write any better, so I should probably not write anything. [[User:Graut|Graut]] 22:11, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

== I disagree with much of the recent changes. ==

I think parts of the recent changes is bad. I am not going to correct it now, but you will have my reasoning if I do later.

Ninjask? It isn't very neutral to say it may be the best baton passer. I think most people would agree Gliscor is the best one. Ninjask is one of the worst. The only thing keeping Ninjask in OU is new players using it. If it dropped from OU it would probably drop all the way down to NU, because there are less new players in UU. Ninjask is one of the bad pokémon kept in OU just because bad players think it is good. And Ninjask has a really bad support movepool. At least not good. The only support it has is baton pass. No screens, taunt, stealth rock, wish, anything.

Kingler is not UU by the Smogon Tier List, but NU. I tried to just mention pokémon that both Smogon and other agree are UU. Actually I don't know about any other tier lists than the smogon, so it would be nice if someone could link to it, well, there are some which hasn't been updated since 2007 or 2008, but something still updated. I also think Smogon is important enough to keep Kingler from being mentioned. Smogon should be at least 50 % weighted in the article, unless somebody can link a popular, updated tier list. And thus, NU pokémon in Smogon lists should not be listed as UU. I went the other way when I made new examples. I didn't put Mismagius or Blaziken there, to make the article for more than just Smogon.

Why compleatly remove Medicham and Porygon2 from the NU? NU is more than Luvdisc and Delibird. [[User:Graut|Graut]] 00:59, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
:This is why I hate tiers. This article should have the Pokémon examples removed... [[User:CuboneKing|Cu]][[User talk:CuboneKing|bo]][[Special:Contributions/CuboneKing|ne]][[Cubone (Pokémon)|King]] 01:03, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

== Garchomp and Shedinja. ==

Perhaps Shedinja ought to have a mention in the uber catebory. I know it is debated as to whether Shedinja's uber or NU and that Smogon says NU, but perhaps it ought to have a little mention all the same. Garchomp is debatable as to its tier, but most of the debate was sparked from Smogon's classification of classification as uber (I really don't know why they bother). Perhaps a more general term should be used, such as pseudo-legendary. Just a thought. --[[User:Hyurnat4|Hyurnat4]] 22:32, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
:were trying to leave out as many Pokemon as we can. it just creates arguments. Garchomp is listed, but simply as a "some people" consideration. Tiers in general are a giant "some people" so its fine the way it is. -- '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAG]][[User:MAGNEDETH#Interesting Stuff|NE]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|DETH]]''' 23:08, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

== Salamence ==
Can it please be noted that Salamence is only an Uber on certain tier lists, such as Smogon's? Because right now Smogon is the only place I've seen it moved to the Uber list, and while Smogon is certainly an authority when it comes to competitive Pokémon battling, they are not the only website that has a tier list.--[[User:Phantomjunkie|Phantom]][[User talk:Phantomjunkie|Junkie]] 16:24, 17 July 2010 (UTC)
:I see above me that Garchomp is supposed to be listed as a "Some people" uber, but the sentence that contains both Garchomp and Salamence is a very factual "These Pokémon are Ubers because of this." No mention of "some people" or "some tier lists."--[[User:Phantomjunkie|Phantom]][[User talk:Phantomjunkie|Junkie]] 16:26, 17 July 2010 (UTC)
::Done. For people adding things in future, remeber all specific examples should be listed as possibilities, to account for differences between tier lists and to prevent edit wars. Also, the number of specific examples should be kept to a minimum for the same reason. <sc>[[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]]</sc> [[User talk:Werdnae|(talk)]] 20:30, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

== Links ==

I don't think this subject would be so controversially if links or collapsible text boxes were used so that people could read the rationales. The original article was just a list with no description of why Pokémon were added there. --[[User talk:Venomoth|☯ ]][[User:Venomoth|*Ɣℯ№ӎօṫհ*]][[User talk:Venomoth| ☯]] 17:15, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
:The placement still causes too much arguing, even if there is an explanation. Just look at what happens on Smogon whenever they decide to change the teirs. Besides, the placement of Pokémon into teirs is opinion, and doesn't belong in the mainspace of an encyclopedia. If people want a list of Pokémon in the teirs, they con go to Smogon, which, by the way, Bulbagarden is affiliated with. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] [[User talk:Werdnae|(talk)]] 21:48, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Do you think we should have in-game tiers for the mainseries games, this is supposed to be an informative wiki so why not add some information on which pokemon are good ingame based on availability, movepool and other factors?

List of cross-generational references

2012-08-18T22:24:45Z

Mastervictini: /* To Generation III */

{{fan speculation}}
The five [[generation]]s of [[Pokémon games]], taking place in the same {{pkmn|world|universe}}, have had multiple references to each other. Not only do the games reference their same-generation counterparts (with the {{player}}'s default name being the version played and the [[rival]]'s being the counterpart version in the first two generations), but games released later in the series typically will feature references to events of past generations.

This does not include Pokémon. While Pokémon released in previous generations will always appear, they are not a reference to the generation itself.

==List of references==
===Generation II===
====To Generation I====
* Not only is the [[Kanto]] region a playable area during the games, but several of the events of [[Generation I]] are spoken of as having happened three years previous. Many characters also reappear because of this, though some of them undergo design changes.
* {{ga|Red}}, the player character of the first games, is found training in [[Mt. Silver]] and can be battled.
* {{ga|Blue}}, the rival character of the first games, has become the [[Gym Leader]] of [[Viridian City]]. His team is based on the Pokémon he used in the final battle in {{game|Red and Blue|s}}.
* A man in the [[Violet City]] Pokémon Center states that the former [[Team Rocket]] was broken up by a "{{ga|Red|young kid}}."
* The parents of the Copycat in [[Saffron City]] mention that her Clefairy Doll was given to her by {{ga|Red|a boy}} three years before.
* The [[Berserk Gene]], a held item, is found near the former entrance of the now-collapsed [[Cerulean Cave]], where {{p|Mewtwo}} once hid.
* There is a [[Pokémon doll]] of a {{m|surf}}ing {{p|Pikachu}} available to decorate the room, which references the special minigame in {{game|Yellow}}.
* A man in [[Cerulean City]] says there used to be [[Cerulean Cave|a cave near the city with powerful Pokémon]].
* If the player checks the poster in the [[Rocket Game Corner]], the player will be informed that there's nothing there, referring to the secret switch under the poster in Generation I.
* The master of the [[Saffron City]] [[Fighting Dojo]], [[Kiyo]], can be found and battled in Mt. Mortar. Like in Generation I, he gives the player a {{p|Tyrogue|Fighting-type Pokémon}} upon defeating him.

===Generation III===
====To Generation I====
* [[Brawly]] is said to have once trained alongside [[Bruno]], who is a member of [[Kanto]]'s [[Elite Four]].
* The Oceanic Museum in [[Slateport City]] has two water samples, one of which is from Kanto. Its background music theme is also an arrangement of the S.S. Anne theme.
* On [[Faraway Island]], a series of smudged messages, which may have been left by [[Mr. Fuji]], appear on a [[signpost]].
* A boy in [[Lilycove City]] says that he and his family came from the [[Kanto]] region before he asks if there are any Pokémon found only in the [[Hoenn]] region.
* In {{ka|Victory Road}}, there is a small crater where {{p|Moltres}} used to be.

====To Generation II====
* In {{game|Ruby and Sapphire|s}}, the player-controlled character of {{game2|Ruby|Sapphire|Emerald}} is said to have moved at the beginning of the game with his/her family from the [[Johto]] region, the main setting of the Generation II games. In {{game|Emerald}} the character who said this instead states that the player character's family moved there from a faraway place.
* The [[Pokémon Ruby and Sapphire beta|beta versions of Pokémon Ruby and Sapphire]] contained remastered versions of the themes played on [[Route]]s [[Johto Route 38|38]] and [[Johto Route 39|39]], [[Team Rocket]] encounter, [[Legendary beasts]]' battle, and [[Saffron City]].
* The Oceanic Museum in [[Slateport City]] has two water samples, one of which is from Johto.
* A man in [[Mt. Moon]] says that [[Brock]] sometimes helps excavate [[Fossil]]s there. This explains how he acquires the {{p|Kabutops}} and {{p|Omastar}} which he uses in the second generation of games.
* At the [[Cerulean Cape]], a dame says [[Misty]] has high hopes about the location, which is known as a famous dating spot. In the second generation of games, she is first encountered there with an unknown male character.
* [[Janine]], [[Koga]]'s daughter and future [[Gym Leader|Leader]] of [[Fuchsia Gym]], appears in [[Fuchsia City]], and tells the player that she is training to use {{t|Poison}} Pokémon like her father. She is misnamed as Charine in the English translation of FireRed and LeafGreen, however.
* The branch of [[Team Rocket]] in the [[Sevii Islands]] seems to be the same branch which attempted to revive Team Rocket during Generation II, with plans to use magnetic waves to evolve Pokémon. Their lead scientist also tells that [[Giovanni]]'s child has red hair, a reference to {{ga|Silver}}.
* One of [[Professor Oak]]'s assistants will state that he is to get a [[Professor Oak's Pokémon Talk|radio show]] sometime in the near future.
* [[Celio]] mentions that some members of [[Bill]]'s family live in [[Goldenrod City]].
* A woman on [[Boon Island]] in [[Bruno]]'s section of the [[Fame Checker]] mentions the [[RageCandyBar]].
* A kid in [[Indigo Plateau]] in [[Lance]]'s section of the [[Fame Checker]] says he has a [[Clair|cousin who is a Gym Leader]] [[Blackthorn City|somewhere far away]].
* [[Whitney]], [[Jasmine]] and [[Pryce]] lookalikes appear as audience members in {{pkmn|Contest}}s.
* The man who digs [[Three Isle Path]] and gives the player a Nugget says that he'd like to buy a house in [[Kanto]]. He likely is the same person who gives away a Nugget in [[Generation II]] in his house on {{rt|2|Kanto}}.
* The themes used on the [[Sevii Islands]] are remastered versions of the routes around [[Mahogany Town]] as well as remastered versions of {{ci|Violet}}/[[Olivine City]] and [[Azalea Town]]/[[Blackthorn City]].
* In Mt. Battle, there is an {{p|Abra}} that will {{m|Teleport}} players to the entrance. In the Generation II games, the player can use an Abra at [[Indigo Plateau]] to Teleport [[New Bark Town|home]].

===Generation IV===
====To Generation I====
* [[Professor Rowan]] is said to have developed the [[List of Pokémon by Sinnoh Pokédex number|Sinnoh Pokédex]] with help from [[Professor Oak|a Pokémon Professor from Kanto]].
* Professor Oak himself comes to [[Sinnoh]] to give the player the [[National Pokédex]], and can always be found in a house in [[Eterna City]] thereafter. He gives the player an {{DL|Evolution-inducing held item|Up-Grade}}, which was sent to Oak by his acquaintance from [[Kanto]].
* In the [[gate]] east of [[Canalave City]] is a guard who complains that he is thirsty, like the guards in Kanto who will allow the {{player}} to enter [[Saffron City]] if they are brought a drink. Unlike those guards, however, this one does not do anything if brought a drink.
* One of the [[Elite Four]], [[Bertha]], shares a similar name (in Japanese and English) and design to [[Agatha]]. It is possible they are related, or that Bertha was at least modeled after Agatha.
* {{tc|Black Belt}} Eddie from {{si|Victory Road}} mentions that he trained in [[Fighting Dojo]] at {{ci|Saffron}}.
* In [[Amity Square]], some Pokémon may be let out of their [[Poké Ball]] to follow their Trainer around. One of the few available is {{p|Pikachu}}, which did the same (however, throughout the game) in {{game|Yellow}}.
* [[Bebe]]'s buddy [[Bill]] is mentioned to have developed the basic storage system.
* Part of the Veilstone Game Corner music is a techno remix of the Rocket Game Corner music.
* One of {{ga|Lucas}}'s alternate names was Ash in the English versions of {{game|Diamond and Pearl|s}}. This is one of the default names of {{ga|Red}} in the games {{game2|Red|Blue|Yellow}}, {{2v2|FireRed|LeafGreen}}. It may even be a reference to the {{pkmn|anime}}'s [[Ash Ketchum|main character]].
[[File:Nostalgic Wallpaper.png|thumb|Wallpaper]]
* As a direct tribute to the original games, one of the wallpapers has been designed to resemble the design of the [[route]]s of the first games, complete with the graphics and sprites when the games are played on the [[Game Boy]]. The wallpaper showcases typical features like both types of fences, low and high [[Tall grass|grass]], normal ground, a [[sign]] and a house.
* As {{game|HeartGold and SoulSilver|s}} are remakes of {{game|Gold and Silver|s}}, the references present in the original games to Generation I return.
* During a special {{p|Celebi}} event, the character will, in fact, travel in time back to shortly after {{ga|Red}} has defeated [[Giovanni]]. Giovanni tells his {{ga|Silver|son}} that he has decided to disband [[Team Rocket]]. Afterwards, he will run towards the [[Johto]] region and is found in a cave. When the player has defeated him, he will make a remark that the player reminds him of the boy that made him disband the team in the first place.
* In HeartGold and SoulSilver, a man mentions that Professor Oak once said there were 150 Pokémon, the amount known during Generation I, although there are now almost 500 (which appears to imply that all the games, or at least the remakes, take place at the same time as Generation IV).

====To Generation II====
* A news report of a [[red Gyarados]] begins {{game|Diamond and Pearl|s}}. The cameraman who filmed the documentary appears at the [[Survival Area]].
** In {{v2|Platinum}}, the game instead begins with a report about Professor Rowan. However, the cameraman from the red Gyarados report is seen blocking the entrance to [[Lake Valor]], hoping to get a shot of the {{p|Azelf|legendary Pokémon}} said to live there.
* A man, who gives the player a {{p|Happiny}} {{pkmn|Egg}} in {{2v2|Diamond|Pearl}}, says that [[Professor Elm]] announced that Eggs kept [[party|with a Trainer]] will eventually hatch.
* [[Jasmine]], one of Johto's [[Gym Leader]]s, appears to give the player {{HM|07|Waterfall}} and participates in Sinnoh's {{pkmn|Super Contest}}s.
* A man in [[Valor Lakefront]] states that he would like to see a {{p|Lugia|silver-colored Pokémon}} that resides in the [[Whirl Islands]], a {{p|Ho-Oh|rainbow-colored Pokémon}} that resides in the [[Bell Tower|Tin Tower]], and {{p|Clefairy}} [[Days of the week#Monday|dancing]] in [[Mt. Moon]] sometime during his life.
* A {{tc|Ninja Boy}} on {{Rt|210|Sinnoh}} near [[Celestic Town]] says he wants to train with a [[Janine|ninja]] [[Gym Leader]] in a faraway land.
* {{tc|Dragon Tamer}} Hayden on {{rt|224|Sinnoh}} mentions that he left the [[Dragon's Den]] several years ago.
* The [[Poké Ball]] design on the floor of the Sinnoh Pokémon Centers is colored {{game|Gold and Silver|s|gold and silver}}. Park Balls are also colored gold and silver, and the normally black stripe in the middle is actually a light blue, {{game|Crystal||crystal}}-like color.
* {{tc|Dragon Tamer}} Geoffrey on {{rt|225|Sinnoh}} mentions a [[Lance|Dragon Tamer Champion]].
* The {{p|Eevee}} which [[Bebe]] gives to the player was obtained originally from her [[Bill|friend]] in [[Johto]].
* [[Cynthia]], who somehow was able to obtain it (possibly from Jasmine, since she is in Sinnoh), gives the [[SecretPotion]], the medicine from [[Cianwood City]] that cured [[Amphy]] in [[Generation II]], to the player to cure the group of {{p|Psyduck}} blocking {{rt|210|Sinnoh}}.
* In [[Stargazer Colosseum]] in [[Pokémon Battle Revolution]], some of the Pokémon in the last battle depend on which game is linked to the Wii. If Diamond is linked, one of the Pokémon is {{p|Ho-Oh}}, Gold's [[version mascot]], and if Pearl is linked, one of the Pokémon is {{p|Lugia}}, Silver's version mascot.
* When a {{shiny}} {{p|Clefairy}} appears during a slot game in [[Veilstone Game Corner]], a remixed version of [[Mt. Moon Square]] music from {{3v2|Gold|Silver|Crystal}} is played.
* In Pokémon Platinum, one of the women in the basement floor of the [[Veilstone Department Store]] mentions that the store is sold out of [[RageCandyBar]]s, the local specialty in [[Mahogany Town]].
* In HeartGold and SoulSilver, the [[Gym guide]] of [[Vermilion Gym]] states that the Gym's traps were temporarily out of order, a reference to Gold, Silver, and Crystal.
* In the Pokégear's description of [[Cerulean Cave]], it states that the cave had collapsed.
* A Hiker in the {{rt|3|Kanto}} [[Pokémon Center]] states that the Pokémon Center didn't exist when he was climbing the mountain, which is only true in [[Generation II]].

====To Generation III====
* A man in [[Hearthome City]], who says he is from the [[Hoenn]] region, will show the player to the [[Contest Hall]], a feature originally introduced in Hoenn.
* A man in [[Valor Lakefront]] states that he would like to see a rocket launch from the Space Center in [[Mossdeep City]] sometime during his life.
* A woman in Valor Lakefront claims to have lost her Suite Key. If the player finds it near the [[Hotel Grand Lake]] using the {{DL|Pokétch|Dowsing Machine}}, she will offer a reward of one {{DL|Status ailment healing item|Lava Cookie}}, a specialty of Hoenn, possibly implying that her home is in that region.
* A {{tc|Swimmer}} south of the Valor Lakefront says she would like to vacation in [[Hoenn]] because it has more routes on which to {{m|Surf}}.
* A woman west of [[Pastoria City]] used to work at the [[Weather Institute]] of Hoenn and will give out [[weather conditions|weather]]-changing [[TM]]s for [[Shard]]s.
* An old woman living at the base of [[Stark Mountain]] acts in the same way that another woman does on {{rt|111|Hoenn}} in Hoenn, insisting that the player keep healing his or her Pokémon with her in a creepy manner. Strangely, they both also live just north of a sandstorm-ridden desert.
* A Swimmer north of [[Sunyshore City]] wishes to visit Hoenn's seas.
* A {{tc|Socialite}} in the Valor Lakefront restaurant will occasionally mention the sauce of her dish was made from spicy [[Cheri Berry|Cheri Berries]] with a Hoenn-style recipe.
* {{tc|Bird Keeper}} Audrey on {{rt|225|Sinnoh}} says she was born in [[Hoenn]].
* A woman in the {{si|Battle Tower}} claims to have been from Hoenn, where another {{Ho|Battle Tower}} resides. In Platinum, her reference could mean either the Battle Tower itself or the {{gdis|Battle Frontier|III}} that is present in Hoenn.
* A catalog in [[Rad Rickshaw]]'s Cycle Shop in [[Eterna City]] advertises the [[Mach Bike]] and [[Acro Bike]].
* In [[Stargazer Colosseum]] in {{g|Battle Revolution}}, some of the Pokémon in the last battle depend on which game is linked to the Wii. If Diamond is linked, one of the Pokémon is {{p|Kyogre}}, Sapphire's [[version mascot]], and if Pearl is linked, one of the Pokémon is {{p|Groudon}}, Ruby's version mascot.
* The [[Meister|fourteen foreign Pokédex entries]] in Diamond and Pearl are all from the respective translated versions of {{game3|FireRed and LeafGreen|Pokémon LeafGreen|s}}.
* In {{game|Platinum}}, the {{DL|Legendary artifacts|Adamant Orb}} and {{DL|Legendary artifacts|Lustrous Orb}} are required to summon {{p|Dialga}} and {{p|Palkia}}, much like the {{DL|Legendary artifacts|Red Orb}} and {{DL|Legendary artifacts|Blue Orb}} were required to summon Groudon and Kyogre.
* In {{game|HeartGold and SoulSilver|s}}, many buildings and lengths of most Routes and areas in [[Kanto]] are heavily based on [[Generation III]] Kanto rather than [[Generation II]] Kanto. Furthermore, many areas and other aspects not present in the Generation II Kanto have returned in order to resemble the Generation III Kanto more closely.
* [[Mr. Pokémon]] is said to have gotten the {{DL|Legendary artifacts|Red Orb}} or {{DL|Legendary artifacts|Blue Orb}} from a friend in [[Hoenn]].
* {{Steven}}, Hoenn's former champion, is present in [[Vermilion City]], and will speak of [[Eon duo|a strange Hoenn-native Pokémon]] that has been reported {{pkmn2|roaming}} [[Kanto]].
** He also appears in the [[Silph Co.]] building in [[Saffron City]] after the player defeats {{ga|Red}} and gives the {{player}} one of the [[Hoenn]] region's starter Pokémon.
* When the player first encounters [[Bill]] in the [[Pokémon Center]] in [[Ecruteak City]], he will mention that [[Lanette]] from [[Hoenn]] helped him develop the [[Pokémon Storage System]].

===Generation V===
====To Generation I====
* The [[Pokémon Center]]'s theme, as it's always been, is a direct remix from the original theme from {{game|Red and Blue|s}}.
* {{ga|Blue}}'s theme as [[Kanto]] {{pkmn|Champion}} is remixed in the final battles of official competitions.
* After a {{tc|Swimmer}} in [[Undella Bay]] is defeated, he claims he will challenge [[Gym Leader]]s all over the world, then asks where he can find {{type|Water}} [[Gym]]s, asking for confirmation that they're in [[Cerulean Gym|Kanto]], [[Sootopolis Gym|Hoenn]], and [[Pastoria Gym|Sinnoh]].
* A {{tc|Black Belt}} in the [[Icirrus Gym]] says that he trained in a [[Fighting Dojo]] in [[Kanto]].
* An {{tc|Ace Trainer}} aboard the [[Royal Unova]] mentions that she is from the [[Kanto]] region.

====To Generation II====
* [[Shauntal]] mentions the {{DL|List of key items in Generation II|Silver Wing}} and the {{DL|List of key items in Generation II|Rainbow Wing}} in one of her conversations at Caitlin's Villa. These are the main items used to summon {{p|Lugia}} and {{p|Ho-Oh}}, respectively.
* The lone {{tc|Team Rocket Grunt}} who stole the {{DL|List of key items in Generation II|Machine Part}} from Kanto's [[Power Plant]] is revealed to live in [[Unova]]. He says that while he had planned to revive [[Team Rocket]], soon after returning [[Icirrus City|home]] he fell in love and then married.
* The [[RageCandyBar]] returns. The wife of the Ex-Team Rocket Grunt, as well as [[Professor Juniper]], gives the RageCandyBar to the player. The wife mentions that the candy is the favorite sweet of one of her husband's past coworkers in Team Rocket.
* Team Rocket's [[Goldenrod Radio Tower|Radio Tower]] takeover theme can be heard in the [[Game Freak]] headquarters in [[Castelia City]].
* When Mr. Locke opens the [[Lock Capsule]], he also finds a letter that explains that [[TM95]] has been kept hidden from Team Rocket.
* {{p|Zorua}} is said to have waited for {{p|Celebi}} for a long time.
* According to one of the Plasma Grunts in [[N's Castle]], "[[Team Galactic]] and [[Team Rocket]] drew too much attention to themselves. That's why their plans were thwarted."
* A lady at [[Village Bridge]] references the [[Pokéathlon]] as a very popular competition in [[Johto]].
* A {{tc|Clerk ♂|Clerk}} aboard the [[Royal Unova]] mentions that he came from [[Johto]] for a business trip.

====To Generation III====
* A guy in the [[Desert Resort]] will mention that he doesn't need [[Go-Goggles]] to go through the sandstorm there, a reference to how they were needed to do so in [[Hoenn]].
* Some of the themes, such as [[N]]'s final battle theme, the [[Team Plasma]] battle theme, and the [[Elite Four]] theme have segments of [[Hoenn]] themes in them.
* {{tc|The Riches}}, the family who offers their own battle challenge to the {{player}}, may be compared to the [[Winstrate family]] in {{game2|Ruby|Sapphire|Emerald}}.
* Returning to the former [[HM]] {{m|Dive}}, which is required to access [[Abyssal Ruins]], may be paralled with the [[underwater]] in [[Hoenn]].
* In [[Undella Town]], two residents that reside there during the summer mention that they came from the Hoenn region for a vacation. One of them also mentions [[Steven Stone]].
* The Unova [[Elite Four]] have a unique battle theme rather than the gym leader battle theme. The only other region to do this was [[Hoenn]]
*In Icirrus city, in Pokemon Black 2 and White 2, the house once inhabited by the ex-team rocket member is now inhabited by a couple who tell the player they used to be part of Teamm Magma and Team Aqua.

====To Generation IV====
* In [[Nacrene Gym]], the book called "Sweets for Pokémon" describes [[Poffin]]s and mentions that they are made in the [[Sinnoh]] region.
* [[Caitlin]] of the {{DL|Battle Frontier (Generation IV)|Battle Castle}} appears as an [[Elite Four]] member in [[Unova]]. She references her prior inability to battle, and mentions the Battle Castle's presence in [[Sinnoh]] and [[Johto]].
* [[Looker]] appears in search of the [[Seven Sages]] of [[Team Plasma]].
* [[Cynthia]] will meet the player at Caitlin's Villa in [[Undella Town]] after getting the [[National Pokédex]]. The player will be able to battle her in Spring and Summer.
** In addition to this, after defeating her in a battle for the first time, she will mention that the player looked like the {{ga|Lucas|Tra}}{{ga|Dawn|iner}} who faced {{p|Giratina}}.
* According to one of the Plasma Grunts in [[N's Castle]], "[[Team Galactic]] and [[Team Rocket]] drew too much attention to themselves. That's why their plans were thwarted."
* Shauntal mentions the [[Distortion World]] in one of her conversations at Caitlin's Villa. She states that {{p|Giratina|the only Pokémon living in the Distortion World}} was spectacular.
* Before her rematch, Shauntal quotes a line about [[Volkner]], which comes from her novel.
* A man who gives away [[Fossil]]s everyday at [[Twist Mountain]] said that when the player looks carefully and digs at the walls of empty places like caves, the player will find many different kinds of items such as Fossils, a reference on how the player can dig up different kinds of items, especially Fossils, at the [[Sinnoh]] region's [[The Underground|underground]].
* {{tc|Ace Trainer}} Henry aboard the [[Royal Unova]] mentions that he is from the [[Sinnoh]] region.
* Upon meeting Skyla for the first time, she tells Cedric, "You are talking like places like Kanto and Sinnoh are right around the corner!"

==Related articles==
* [[List of cross-canon references]]

[[Category:Pokémon meta]]
[[Category:Games]]
[[Category:Lists]]

[[it:Elenco dei riferimenti tra le varie generazioni]]

Talk:Remake

2012-08-17T20:14:02Z

Mastervictini: /* The R/S remakes speculation part... */

Talk:Remake

2012-08-17T20:12:39Z

Mastervictini: /* The R/S remakes speculation part... */

==Third versions==
By the definition of remake in the article, wouldn't the third versions be considered remakes? [[User:Turtwig A|Turtwig's]] [[Turtwig (Pokémon)|A-B-Cs]] ([[User talk:Turtwig A|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|contribs]]) 21:50, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
:^ It's [[User:Turtwig A|Turtwig A]]! [[User talk:Turtwig A|My talk]] or [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|wiki edits]] 00:46, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

==Speculation section==
Do we really need it? It is all speculation, and I could dismiss half of it. Sure, it's tagged as speculation, but it doesn't make it fine to put in the article. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 11:33, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
:Or it can be moved to an article of its own like the GS remake one. There are evidences of it, somewhat like shipping. [[User:Tc26/Anime Predictions|tc]][[User:Tc26|²₆]][[User talk:Tc26|tc]][[User:Tc26/Sandbox|26]] 11:36, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
::I thought that got deleted because we didn't want an article full of just speculation. I think this kind of thing is best suited for the forums. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 12:15, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

== Sinnoh League Ground ==

It is worth mentioning that in Platinum in Sinnoh League building there is a ground with a red outer side, blue inner side and green-like moving lines (which could reference to R/S/E colors) [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] 21:28, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
:I don't think that's notable enough to be mentioned in the article. I'd say it's just pure coincidence. [[User:Han Ji-Wan|Han Ji-Wan]] 00:22, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

== Prefix ==

From what I've noticed, remakes have some sort of prefix at the begining
 '''Heart'''Gold
 '''Soul'''Silver
 '''Fire'''Red
 '''Leaf'''Green
 Should this be noted? [[User:Pgj1997|Pgj1997]] 16:25, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
:It's not really that interesting. :--[[User:SuperAipom7|SuperAipom7]] ''([[User talk:SuperAipom7|Questions?]])'' 16:26, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
::So? {{unsigned|Pgj1997}}

== So-called evidence ==

A lot of the 'evidence' in the Speculation section seems really unneccesary. What does bringing back ocean currents, an area with a sandstorm, or Ash's party in DP189, have anything to do with a possible remake? I think the section needs trimming. [[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']][[Pikachu (Pokémon)|'''⚡''']] 20:41, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
:^ Ocean currents and sandstorms were introduced in Gen III and Ash used some of his Hoenn Pokémon in that episode. That is why they were added. I'm not saying they are the best piece of evidence, just saying why they were added. --[[User:HoennMaster|Hoenn]][[User talk:HoennMaster|Master]] 20:56, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
::I know, but they are not the same as, for example, Johto being coded in as a trade location, or Dawn traveling to Hoenn after SS024, opening the possibility of an anime reappearance for Hoenn. I guess they would have to re-code the ocean currents and the sandstorms back into the game, so thats fine, but as for DP189, thats from the Gen IV series, if Ash were to recall his Hoenn Pokemon in the Best Wishes series it would be notable. And a hiddden note next to it actually states that he only has three AG Pokemon on his team not including Pikachu (Sceptile, Swellow, Torkoal), Pikachu is what makes it "most of his team". Regarding some other points:
* ''The sixth Gym Leader of Unova, [[Skyla]], is a Flying-type specialist and lives near a rainy area, like [[Winona]] from Hoenn and both are the sixth Gym Leader in their respective regions.''
::Like Winona and Skyla, Pryce, Candice and Brycen are Ice-type gym leaders #7, but it doesnt mean that HeartGold/SoulSilver and Diamond/Pearl will get remakes.
* ''A fossil depicting an {{p|Armaldo}} in the [[Nacrene City]] museum.''
::Dragonite has a far more notable appearance, but it doesnt mean that they will remake FireRed/LeafGreen. And Armaldo is not unobtainable in BW.
* ''A {{tc|Backpacker}} in [[Desert Resort]] tells the player that he comes from Hoenn, and that he doesn't need the [[Go-Goggles]] here unlike in Hoenn.''
* ''In [[Undella Town]] during Summer, a boy tells the player that he and his family comes from Hoenn and visit Undella Town every Summer. A girl also mentions [[Steven Stone]]. ''
:: Random characters may mention Hoenn, but they also mention other regions.
* ''No characters introduced in Generation III are reused in Black and White, unlike other generations which saw characters repeated in these games. [[Cynthia]], [[Looker]], [[Caitlin]], and a former {{tc|Team Rocket Grunt}} were introduced before they appeared in Black and White.''
::This is actually evidence against a remake, Jasmine appeared in DP, and her games got a remake.
* ''The introduction of {{p|Maractus|another}} {{p|Cacnea|cactus}}-{{p|Cacturne|based}} Pokémon.''
:It also introduced another {{p|Bouffalant|bull}}-{{p|Tauros|based}} {{p|Miltank|Pokémon}}, {{p|Drilbur|mole}}-{{p|Diglett|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Baoppu|fire}} {{p|Hihidaruma|ape}}-{{p|Chimchar|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Munna|baku}}-{{p|Drowzee|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Zebraika|horse}}-{{p|Ponyta|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Koromori|bat}}-{{p|Zubat|based}} {{p|Gliscor|Pokémon}}, {{p|Dokkora|Machop}}-{{p|Machop|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Tympole|tadpole}}-{{p|Poliwag|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Nageki|Hit}}{{p|Dageki|mon}}-{{p|Hitmonlee|based}} {{p|Hitmonchan|Pokémon}}, {{p|Cottonee|cotton plant}}-{{p|Hoppip|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Lilligant|feminine, rafflesia}}-{{p|Bellossom|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Archen|fossil prehistoric bird}}-{{p|Aerodactyl|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Zoroark|kitsune}}-{{p|Ninetales|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Foongus|fungi}}-{{p|Shuckle|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Frillish|Jellyfish}}-{{p|Tentacool|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Galvantula|spider}}-{{p|Ariados|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Kumasyun|bear}}-{{p|Teddiursa|based}} Pokémon.
:[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']][[Pikachu (Pokémon)|'''⚡''']] 23:06, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

I trimmed down the article and removed many unnecessary facts. Some of the facts that you removed were worth keeping. You don't hear anyone else mentioning [[Champion]] [[Lance]] of the [[Kanto]] and [[Johto]] regions, do you? And having Dive return as a [[HM]], a large desert, The Riches Family (which is battled in the same way as Winstrates), ocean currents, language on walls (which wasn't present anywhere in [[Sinnoh]]), etc. is all there so that the programmers won't have to make much changes to the engine of Black and White for the remakes of Ruby and Sapphire. The same thing happened in [[Generation IV]]. [[HeartGold and SoulSilver]] were modified heavily off of [[Pokémon Platinum]]'s game engine and there was a good amount of similarities between [[Johto]] and [[Sinnoh]] ([[Jasmine]]'s appearance, [[Gym Leader]] line-up, interaction with trees, etc.). --[[User:Dialgafan1|Dialgafan1]] 00:20, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
:Okay, I have trimmed down it again, and I will list my reasons here. There are just as many Sinnoh Pokémon only available via the Dream World or Poké Transfer as Hoenn ones; therefore, it is meaningless. Nobody mentions Lance, but someone does mention Cynthia; in fact, she appears there. Most likely, nobody mentions Lance because they haven't decided whether he will be Champion at this time. Currents also appeared in FRLG. There is a sandstorm area in Sinnoh too; sure, it is post-Elite Four, but that shouldn't mean anything. You can draw a tonne of parallels between Gym Leaders (7th Gym Ice anyone?), but none of them even come close to hinting a remake. No previous NPCs at all appeared in RS (both Gen I and II NPCs were absent); this is not the case in Black and White, and this is not what happened in DPPt. Yes, because not mentioning Team Aqua and Magma means that they can screw the storyline over and retcon it into another time period over 3 years later (presentably 3 years + the age of TR Grunt's son + 9 months). If they wanted to put Hoenn at the same time as Unova, they would have put Unova in Hoenn's time. Hoenn certainly isn't the only region with a Safari Ball, and they had no issue programming in capture animations for the Apricorn Balls and Sport Ball in HGSS.
:There are a few other things that I still think are non-hints—Go-Goggles mention, The Riches, reference to Hoenn in Undella Town, having two rivals, Armoldo fossil—but I have left them anyway. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 12:05, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

==Should this be added?==

*[[Bianca]] and {{ga|May}}/{{ga|Brendan}} both give out the [[Dowsing MCHN]] and [[HM02]]. Coincidentally, both items are obtained after defeating the second and fifth gyms of the region.

Probably not because it is just coincidental. Just wanted to ask before adding it and getting in trouble. --[[User:Dialgafan1|Dialgafan1]] 17:55, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

== Recent Developments from Junichi Masuda's Twitter Account ==

I'm still learning the ropes here, so I really don't know how to add this new development to the page. This development was covered by Bulbanews, which in turn got its information direct from Masuda's twitter feed. http://bulbanews.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Masuda_replies_to_tweet_regarding_remakes_of_Generation_III_games --[[User:Marilynasol|Marilynasol]] 15:49, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
:Actually, it's already there on the right-hand side of the page. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 00:20, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

== Notable? ==

I noticed that while Pokémon most Pokémon from the original four regions other than Hoenn retain sprites from one of older games (with not so many Pokémon having different sprites, like {{p|Ampharos}}. On other side, some have bigger changes than just pose, like eg. {{p|Phanpy}} or {{p|Donphan}}), many (if not all) of Hoenn Pokémon got their sprites visibly updated in B/W (not just poses but also colors, visible on eg. {{p|Grovyle}}, {{p|Regice}} or {{p|Combusken}}) [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] 19:28, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
:That's likely because the Hoenn Pokémon were the only Pokémon to ''not'' get their sprites updated at all in the 4th gen. Doubt it has anything at all to do with a remake. - [[User:Blazios|Blazios]] [[User Talk:Blazios|talk]] 19:35, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
::Except {{p|Registeel}}. inb4 Nazi Salute. Every other Hoenn mon had one Gen IV sprite, it was the same through DPPtHGSS. Before I got Internet, I though that sprites from R/S are how they should look. Now I know they're not (inb4 Grovyle with {{tt|blue|WTF? At least Treecko and Sceptile have green-a-like leaves, while Grovyle had obvious BLUE leaves}} leaves and Seedot with gray/grey "hat"). [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] 20:19, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
:::Registeel had its sprite edited for European D/P, making it a localisation change to begin with that was eventually universally implemented. It was about as much of an update as Imprison's animation change is (As in not at all). Not that that has anything to do with anything. - [[User:Blazios|Blazios]] [[User Talk:Blazios|talk]] 20:29, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

== Johto? ==

Did May compete contests in Johto? I thought it was in Hoenn. [[User:Nickvang|Nickvang]] 17:28, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
:After the Advanced Generation ended may went on to Johto to continue contests. [[User:Pokemaster97|--Pokemaster]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|97]] 17:34, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
Right? But Johto doesn't even have contests? [[User:Nickvang|Nickvang]] 17:36, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
::It does in the anime, apparently.--[[User:MisterE13|Mister]][[User talk:MisterE13|'''E''']][[Special:Contributions/MisterE13|13]] 17:43, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

== Starters. ==

While Kanto, Johto and Sinnoh have different base stats total for each unevolved starter (apparently 309 for Fire-types, 314 for Water-types and 318 for Grass-types), Hoenn and Unova have all unevolved starters at the same base stat total (310 and 308 respectively). [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] 20:22, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

==Deep Sand==
Black & White has sand tiles (in the Desert Resort and Route 4) where wild Pokémon can be encountered, a mechanic introduced in Gen III but not used in Gen IV. I say this is evidence for Ruby & Sapphire remakes. —'''[[User:Team Magma Zangoose|Team Magma]] [[User talk:Team Magma Zangoose|Zangoose ⚡]]''' 04:57, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
:That's not evidence.. Sorry. [[User:Han Ji-Wan|Han Ji-Wan]] 07:04, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

still a bit suspicous to me but yeah, to me probably a coincidence, really significant hints are triple battles or dive hm returning or even dive ball returning to original function. Then again, you could be right considering nintendo is not known to do random stuff [[User:Mastervictini|Mastervictini]] 20:56, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

== suspicous black and white 2 logo? a hint to ruby and sapphire possibly ==

[[User:Mastervictini|Mastervictini]] 21:02, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

I noticed the logo for pokemon black and white looks like it may be hinting to Hoenn,the ice is red and blue for white kyurem and black kyurem but the ice looks more like crystals then ice to me. It is probably just my imagination or a coincidence but the logo looks incredibly suspicous
[[User:Mastervictini|Mastervictini]] 21:02, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

== safari ball throwing animation and contest stats ==

if there were going to be no remakes why have a s-ball throwing animation, they went to the troble of removing hms 7 and 8 which are now blank spaces yet no safari zone is in Unova but they kept the animation which probably means future gen v games based in Hoenn will have a safari zone.
The hidden contest stats are suspicous and the fact that ribbons are programed but usually unobtainable outside of rare events is eyebrowraising
MasterVictini [[User:Mastervictini|Mastervictini]] 21:17, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
:The fact that generation IV key items are also hidden in the game code indicates that the hidden contest stats are likely copied code from generation IV games, rather than a hint of remakes. The same could be used to explain the safari ball throwing animation. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] [[User talk:Werdnae|(talk)]] 22:33, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

== red ,blue and green objects in recent movie 15 teaser trailer hinting somethig ==

I definately saw something looking a bit like 3 gems ruby, sapphire and emarald colored at one point during the video on pokemon smash
I dont have a link but the video is on fib I wonder if this is a hint especially considering the video was offical {{unsigned|Mastervictini}}
:[http://youtu.be/VGsFtHQtRPM This trailer]? I've watched it a few times and I still can't see any such gems. Can you screenshot them from it, if that is the video? --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 07:19, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

it was not in the actual movie it was in that room with those japanese guys on pokemon smash to their left - {{unsigned|Mastervictini}}

[[User:Mastervictini|Mastervictini]] 15:48, 31 March 2012 (UTC) whoops, I watched the pokemon smash episode AGAIN but the "red blue green gems" are actually bags or something similar. sorry about that (the "red" is not even red, more like pink) by the way how do you provide links?

:For info on links, simply look [[LLT|here]]. -- [[User:Pringles|Pringles]] 21:20, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

==The R/S remakes speculation part...==
Needs to mention some of the theory's criticism, like the Pokémon Gold and Silver remake speculation article did for that theory. - [[User:Ericss|Ericss]] 23:01, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

--[[User:Mastervictini|Mastervictini]] ([[User talk:Mastervictini|talk]]) 20:12, 17 August 2012 (UTC) Search for evidence in coding of Pokemon Black 2 and White 2
Sorry if this has already been discussed or something but maybe we could find evidence like Hoenn location data (70% that might already exist though) or unexplained ribbons not event ribbons though... oh and references to Hoenn such as mentions or subtle similarities/patterns could help! no junk like ''hurrdurr, red flag ruby remakes'' I want actual evidence and that evidence can be found in the code of Pokemon Black 2 and White 2

Talk:Remake

2012-03-31T15:52:23Z

Mastervictini: /* red ,blue and green objects in recent movie 15 teaser trailer hinting somethig */

==Third versions==
By the definition of remake in the article, wouldn't the third versions be considered remakes? [[User:Turtwig A|Turtwig's]] [[Turtwig (Pokémon)|A-B-Cs]] ([[User talk:Turtwig A|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|contribs]]) 21:50, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
:^ It's [[User:Turtwig A|Turtwig A]]! [[User talk:Turtwig A|My talk]] or [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|wiki edits]] 00:46, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

==Speculation section==
Do we really need it? It is all speculation, and I could dismiss half of it. Sure, it's tagged as speculation, but it doesn't make it fine to put in the article. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 11:33, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
:Or it can be moved to an article of its own like the GS remake one. There are evidences of it, somewhat like shipping. [[User:Tc26/Anime Predictions|tc]][[User:Tc26|²₆]][[User talk:Tc26|tc]][[User:Tc26/Sandbox|26]] 11:36, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
::I thought that got deleted because we didn't want an article full of just speculation. I think this kind of thing is best suited for the forums. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 12:15, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

== Sinnoh League Ground ==

It is worth mentioning that in Platinum in Sinnoh League building there is a ground with a red outer side, blue inner side and green-like moving lines (which could reference to R/S/E colors) [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] 21:28, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
:I don't think that's notable enough to be mentioned in the article. I'd say it's just pure coincidence. [[User:Han Ji-Wan|Han Ji-Wan]] 00:22, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

== Prefix ==

From what I've noticed, remakes have some sort of prefix at the begining
 '''Heart'''Gold
 '''Soul'''Silver
 '''Fire'''Red
 '''Leaf'''Green
 Should this be noted? [[User:Pgj1997|Pgj1997]] 16:25, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
:It's not really that interesting. :--[[User:SuperAipom7|SuperAipom7]] ''([[User talk:SuperAipom7|Questions?]])'' 16:26, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
::So? {{unsigned|Pgj1997}}

== So-called evidence ==

A lot of the 'evidence' in the Speculation section seems really unneccesary. What does bringing back ocean currents, an area with a sandstorm, or Ash's party in DP189, have anything to do with a possible remake? I think the section needs trimming. [[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']][[Pikachu (Pokémon)|'''⚡''']] 20:41, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
:^ Ocean currents and sandstorms were introduced in Gen III and Ash used some of his Hoenn Pokémon in that episode. That is why they were added. I'm not saying they are the best piece of evidence, just saying why they were added. --[[User:HoennMaster|Hoenn]][[User talk:HoennMaster|Master]] 20:56, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
::I know, but they are not the same as, for example, Johto being coded in as a trade location, or Dawn traveling to Hoenn after SS024, opening the possibility of an anime reappearance for Hoenn. I guess they would have to re-code the ocean currents and the sandstorms back into the game, so thats fine, but as for DP189, thats from the Gen IV series, if Ash were to recall his Hoenn Pokemon in the Best Wishes series it would be notable. And a hiddden note next to it actually states that he only has three AG Pokemon on his team not including Pikachu (Sceptile, Swellow, Torkoal), Pikachu is what makes it "most of his team". Regarding some other points:
* ''The sixth Gym Leader of Unova, [[Skyla]], is a Flying-type specialist and lives near a rainy area, like [[Winona]] from Hoenn and both are the sixth Gym Leader in their respective regions.''
::Like Winona and Skyla, Pryce, Candice and Brycen are Ice-type gym leaders #7, but it doesnt mean that HeartGold/SoulSilver and Diamond/Pearl will get remakes.
* ''A fossil depicting an {{p|Armaldo}} in the [[Nacrene City]] museum.''
::Dragonite has a far more notable appearance, but it doesnt mean that they will remake FireRed/LeafGreen. And Armaldo is not unobtainable in BW.
* ''A {{tc|Backpacker}} in [[Desert Resort]] tells the player that he comes from Hoenn, and that he doesn't need the [[Go-Goggles]] here unlike in Hoenn.''
* ''In [[Undella Town]] during Summer, a boy tells the player that he and his family comes from Hoenn and visit Undella Town every Summer. A girl also mentions [[Steven Stone]]. ''
:: Random characters may mention Hoenn, but they also mention other regions.
* ''No characters introduced in Generation III are reused in Black and White, unlike other generations which saw characters repeated in these games. [[Cynthia]], [[Looker]], [[Caitlin]], and a former {{tc|Team Rocket Grunt}} were introduced before they appeared in Black and White.''
::This is actually evidence against a remake, Jasmine appeared in DP, and her games got a remake.
* ''The introduction of {{p|Maractus|another}} {{p|Cacnea|cactus}}-{{p|Cacturne|based}} Pokémon.''
:It also introduced another {{p|Bouffalant|bull}}-{{p|Tauros|based}} {{p|Miltank|Pokémon}}, {{p|Drilbur|mole}}-{{p|Diglett|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Baoppu|fire}} {{p|Hihidaruma|ape}}-{{p|Chimchar|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Munna|baku}}-{{p|Drowzee|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Zebraika|horse}}-{{p|Ponyta|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Koromori|bat}}-{{p|Zubat|based}} {{p|Gliscor|Pokémon}}, {{p|Dokkora|Machop}}-{{p|Machop|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Tympole|tadpole}}-{{p|Poliwag|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Nageki|Hit}}{{p|Dageki|mon}}-{{p|Hitmonlee|based}} {{p|Hitmonchan|Pokémon}}, {{p|Cottonee|cotton plant}}-{{p|Hoppip|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Lilligant|feminine, rafflesia}}-{{p|Bellossom|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Archen|fossil prehistoric bird}}-{{p|Aerodactyl|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Zoroark|kitsune}}-{{p|Ninetales|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Foongus|fungi}}-{{p|Shuckle|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Frillish|Jellyfish}}-{{p|Tentacool|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Galvantula|spider}}-{{p|Ariados|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Kumasyun|bear}}-{{p|Teddiursa|based}} Pokémon.
:[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']][[Pikachu (Pokémon)|'''⚡''']] 23:06, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

I trimmed down the article and removed many unnecessary facts. Some of the facts that you removed were worth keeping. You don't hear anyone else mentioning [[Champion]] [[Lance]] of the [[Kanto]] and [[Johto]] regions, do you? And having Dive return as a [[HM]], a large desert, The Riches Family (which is battled in the same way as Winstrates), ocean currents, language on walls (which wasn't present anywhere in [[Sinnoh]]), etc. is all there so that the programmers won't have to make much changes to the engine of Black and White for the remakes of Ruby and Sapphire. The same thing happened in [[Generation IV]]. [[HeartGold and SoulSilver]] were modified heavily off of [[Pokémon Platinum]]'s game engine and there was a good amount of similarities between [[Johto]] and [[Sinnoh]] ([[Jasmine]]'s appearance, [[Gym Leader]] line-up, interaction with trees, etc.). --[[User:Dialgafan1|Dialgafan1]] 00:20, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
:Okay, I have trimmed down it again, and I will list my reasons here. There are just as many Sinnoh Pokémon only available via the Dream World or Poké Transfer as Hoenn ones; therefore, it is meaningless. Nobody mentions Lance, but someone does mention Cynthia; in fact, she appears there. Most likely, nobody mentions Lance because they haven't decided whether he will be Champion at this time. Currents also appeared in FRLG. There is a sandstorm area in Sinnoh too; sure, it is post-Elite Four, but that shouldn't mean anything. You can draw a tonne of parallels between Gym Leaders (7th Gym Ice anyone?), but none of them even come close to hinting a remake. No previous NPCs at all appeared in RS (both Gen I and II NPCs were absent); this is not the case in Black and White, and this is not what happened in DPPt. Yes, because not mentioning Team Aqua and Magma means that they can screw the storyline over and retcon it into another time period over 3 years later (presentably 3 years + the age of TR Grunt's son + 9 months). If they wanted to put Hoenn at the same time as Unova, they would have put Unova in Hoenn's time. Hoenn certainly isn't the only region with a Safari Ball, and they had no issue programming in capture animations for the Apricorn Balls and Sport Ball in HGSS.
:There are a few other things that I still think are non-hints—Go-Goggles mention, The Riches, reference to Hoenn in Undella Town, having two rivals, Armoldo fossil—but I have left them anyway. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 12:05, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

==Should this be added?==

*[[Bianca]] and {{ga|May}}/{{ga|Brendan}} both give out the [[Dowsing MCHN]] and [[HM02]]. Coincidentally, both items are obtained after defeating the second and fifth gyms of the region.

Probably not because it is just coincidental. Just wanted to ask before adding it and getting in trouble. --[[User:Dialgafan1|Dialgafan1]] 17:55, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

== Recent Developments from Junichi Masuda's Twitter Account ==

I'm still learning the ropes here, so I really don't know how to add this new development to the page. This development was covered by Bulbanews, which in turn got its information direct from Masuda's twitter feed. http://bulbanews.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Masuda_replies_to_tweet_regarding_remakes_of_Generation_III_games --[[User:Marilynasol|Marilynasol]] 15:49, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
:Actually, it's already there on the right-hand side of the page. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 00:20, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

== Notable? ==

I noticed that while Pokémon most Pokémon from the original four regions other than Hoenn retain sprites from one of older games (with not so many Pokémon having different sprites, like {{p|Ampharos}}. On other side, some have bigger changes than just pose, like eg. {{p|Phanpy}} or {{p|Donphan}}), many (if not all) of Hoenn Pokémon got their sprites visibly updated in B/W (not just poses but also colors, visible on eg. {{p|Grovyle}}, {{p|Regice}} or {{p|Combusken}}) [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] 19:28, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
:That's likely because the Hoenn Pokémon were the only Pokémon to ''not'' get their sprites updated at all in the 4th gen. Doubt it has anything at all to do with a remake. - [[User:Blazios|Blazios]] [[User Talk:Blazios|talk]] 19:35, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
::Except {{p|Registeel}}. inb4 Nazi Salute. Every other Hoenn mon had one Gen IV sprite, it was the same through DPPtHGSS. Before I got Internet, I though that sprites from R/S are how they should look. Now I know they're not (inb4 Grovyle with {{tt|blue|WTF? At least Treecko and Sceptile have green-a-like leaves, while Grovyle had obvious BLUE leaves}} leaves and Seedot with gray/grey "hat"). [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] 20:19, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
:::Registeel had its sprite edited for European D/P, making it a localisation change to begin with that was eventually universally implemented. It was about as much of an update as Imprison's animation change is (As in not at all). Not that that has anything to do with anything. - [[User:Blazios|Blazios]] [[User Talk:Blazios|talk]] 20:29, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

== Johto? ==

Did May compete contests in Johto? I thought it was in Hoenn. [[User:Nickvang|Nickvang]] 17:28, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
:After the Advanced Generation ended may went on to Johto to continue contests. [[User:Pokemaster97|--Pokemaster]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|97]] 17:34, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
Right? But Johto doesn't even have contests? [[User:Nickvang|Nickvang]] 17:36, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
::It does in the anime, apparently.--[[User:MisterE13|Mister]][[User talk:MisterE13|'''E''']][[Special:Contributions/MisterE13|13]] 17:43, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

== Starters. ==

While Kanto, Johto and Sinnoh have different base stats total for each unevolved starter (apparently 309 for Fire-types, 314 for Water-types and 318 for Grass-types), Hoenn and Unova have all unevolved starters at the same base stat total (310 and 308 respectively). [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] 20:22, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

==Deep Sand==
Black & White has sand tiles (in the Desert Resort and Route 4) where wild Pokémon can be encountered, a mechanic introduced in Gen III but not used in Gen IV. I say this is evidence for Ruby & Sapphire remakes. —'''[[User:Team Magma Zangoose|Team Magma]] [[User talk:Team Magma Zangoose|Zangoose ⚡]]''' 04:57, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
:That's not evidence.. Sorry. [[User:Han Ji-Wan|Han Ji-Wan]] 07:04, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

still a bit suspicous to me but yeah, to me probably a coincidence, really significant hints are triple battles or dive hm returning or even dive ball returning to original function. Then again, you could be right considering nintendo is not known to do random stuff [[User:Mastervictini|Mastervictini]] 20:56, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

== suspicous black and white 2 logo? a hint to ruby and sapphire possibly ==

[[User:Mastervictini|Mastervictini]] 21:02, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

I noticed the logo for pokemon black and white looks like it may be hinting to Hoenn,the ice is red and blue for white kyurem and black kyurem but the ice looks more like crystals then ice to me. It is probably just my imagination or a coincidence but the logo looks incredibly suspicous
[[User:Mastervictini|Mastervictini]] 21:02, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

== safari ball throwing animation and contest stats ==

if there were going to be no remakes why have a s-ball throwing animation, they went to the troble of removing hms 7 and 8 which are now blank spaces yet no safari zone is in Unova but they kept the animation which probably means future gen v games based in Hoenn will have a safari zone.
The hidden contest stats are suspicous and the fact that ribbons are programed but usually unobtainable outside of rare events is eyebrowraising
MasterVictini [[User:Mastervictini|Mastervictini]] 21:17, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
:The fact that generation IV key items are also hidden in the game code indicates that the hidden contest stats are likely copied code from generation IV games, rather than a hint of remakes. The same could be used to explain the safari ball throwing animation. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] [[User talk:Werdnae|(talk)]] 22:33, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

== red ,blue and green objects in recent movie 15 teaser trailer hinting somethig ==

I definately saw something looking a bit like 3 gems ruby, sapphire and emarald colored at one point during the video on pokemon smash
I dont have a link but the video is on fib I wonder if this is a hint especially considering the video was offical {{unsigned|Mastervictini}}
:[http://youtu.be/VGsFtHQtRPM This trailer]? I've watched it a few times and I still can't see any such gems. Can you screenshot them from it, if that is the video? --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 07:19, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

it was not in the actual movie it was in that room with those japanese guys on pokemon smash to their left - {{unsigned|Mastervictini}}

[[User:Mastervictini|Mastervictini]] 15:48, 31 March 2012 (UTC) whoops, I watched the pokemon smash episode AGAIN but the "red blue green gems" are actually bags or something similar. sorry about that (the "red" is not even red, more like pink) by the way how do you provide links?

==The R/S remakes speculation part...==
Needs to mention some of the theory's criticism, like the Pokémon Gold and Silver remake speculation article did for that theory. - [[User:Ericss|Ericss]] 23:01, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

Talk:Remake

2012-03-31T15:51:20Z

Mastervictini: /* red ,blue and green objects in recent movie 15 teaser trailer hinting somethig */

==Third versions==
By the definition of remake in the article, wouldn't the third versions be considered remakes? [[User:Turtwig A|Turtwig's]] [[Turtwig (Pokémon)|A-B-Cs]] ([[User talk:Turtwig A|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|contribs]]) 21:50, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
:^ It's [[User:Turtwig A|Turtwig A]]! [[User talk:Turtwig A|My talk]] or [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|wiki edits]] 00:46, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

==Speculation section==
Do we really need it? It is all speculation, and I could dismiss half of it. Sure, it's tagged as speculation, but it doesn't make it fine to put in the article. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 11:33, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
:Or it can be moved to an article of its own like the GS remake one. There are evidences of it, somewhat like shipping. [[User:Tc26/Anime Predictions|tc]][[User:Tc26|²₆]][[User talk:Tc26|tc]][[User:Tc26/Sandbox|26]] 11:36, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
::I thought that got deleted because we didn't want an article full of just speculation. I think this kind of thing is best suited for the forums. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 12:15, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

== Sinnoh League Ground ==

It is worth mentioning that in Platinum in Sinnoh League building there is a ground with a red outer side, blue inner side and green-like moving lines (which could reference to R/S/E colors) [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] 21:28, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
:I don't think that's notable enough to be mentioned in the article. I'd say it's just pure coincidence. [[User:Han Ji-Wan|Han Ji-Wan]] 00:22, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

== Prefix ==

From what I've noticed, remakes have some sort of prefix at the begining
 '''Heart'''Gold
 '''Soul'''Silver
 '''Fire'''Red
 '''Leaf'''Green
 Should this be noted? [[User:Pgj1997|Pgj1997]] 16:25, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
:It's not really that interesting. :--[[User:SuperAipom7|SuperAipom7]] ''([[User talk:SuperAipom7|Questions?]])'' 16:26, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
::So? {{unsigned|Pgj1997}}

== So-called evidence ==

A lot of the 'evidence' in the Speculation section seems really unneccesary. What does bringing back ocean currents, an area with a sandstorm, or Ash's party in DP189, have anything to do with a possible remake? I think the section needs trimming. [[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']][[Pikachu (Pokémon)|'''⚡''']] 20:41, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
:^ Ocean currents and sandstorms were introduced in Gen III and Ash used some of his Hoenn Pokémon in that episode. That is why they were added. I'm not saying they are the best piece of evidence, just saying why they were added. --[[User:HoennMaster|Hoenn]][[User talk:HoennMaster|Master]] 20:56, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
::I know, but they are not the same as, for example, Johto being coded in as a trade location, or Dawn traveling to Hoenn after SS024, opening the possibility of an anime reappearance for Hoenn. I guess they would have to re-code the ocean currents and the sandstorms back into the game, so thats fine, but as for DP189, thats from the Gen IV series, if Ash were to recall his Hoenn Pokemon in the Best Wishes series it would be notable. And a hiddden note next to it actually states that he only has three AG Pokemon on his team not including Pikachu (Sceptile, Swellow, Torkoal), Pikachu is what makes it "most of his team". Regarding some other points:
* ''The sixth Gym Leader of Unova, [[Skyla]], is a Flying-type specialist and lives near a rainy area, like [[Winona]] from Hoenn and both are the sixth Gym Leader in their respective regions.''
::Like Winona and Skyla, Pryce, Candice and Brycen are Ice-type gym leaders #7, but it doesnt mean that HeartGold/SoulSilver and Diamond/Pearl will get remakes.
* ''A fossil depicting an {{p|Armaldo}} in the [[Nacrene City]] museum.''
::Dragonite has a far more notable appearance, but it doesnt mean that they will remake FireRed/LeafGreen. And Armaldo is not unobtainable in BW.
* ''A {{tc|Backpacker}} in [[Desert Resort]] tells the player that he comes from Hoenn, and that he doesn't need the [[Go-Goggles]] here unlike in Hoenn.''
* ''In [[Undella Town]] during Summer, a boy tells the player that he and his family comes from Hoenn and visit Undella Town every Summer. A girl also mentions [[Steven Stone]]. ''
:: Random characters may mention Hoenn, but they also mention other regions.
* ''No characters introduced in Generation III are reused in Black and White, unlike other generations which saw characters repeated in these games. [[Cynthia]], [[Looker]], [[Caitlin]], and a former {{tc|Team Rocket Grunt}} were introduced before they appeared in Black and White.''
::This is actually evidence against a remake, Jasmine appeared in DP, and her games got a remake.
* ''The introduction of {{p|Maractus|another}} {{p|Cacnea|cactus}}-{{p|Cacturne|based}} Pokémon.''
:It also introduced another {{p|Bouffalant|bull}}-{{p|Tauros|based}} {{p|Miltank|Pokémon}}, {{p|Drilbur|mole}}-{{p|Diglett|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Baoppu|fire}} {{p|Hihidaruma|ape}}-{{p|Chimchar|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Munna|baku}}-{{p|Drowzee|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Zebraika|horse}}-{{p|Ponyta|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Koromori|bat}}-{{p|Zubat|based}} {{p|Gliscor|Pokémon}}, {{p|Dokkora|Machop}}-{{p|Machop|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Tympole|tadpole}}-{{p|Poliwag|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Nageki|Hit}}{{p|Dageki|mon}}-{{p|Hitmonlee|based}} {{p|Hitmonchan|Pokémon}}, {{p|Cottonee|cotton plant}}-{{p|Hoppip|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Lilligant|feminine, rafflesia}}-{{p|Bellossom|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Archen|fossil prehistoric bird}}-{{p|Aerodactyl|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Zoroark|kitsune}}-{{p|Ninetales|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Foongus|fungi}}-{{p|Shuckle|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Frillish|Jellyfish}}-{{p|Tentacool|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Galvantula|spider}}-{{p|Ariados|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Kumasyun|bear}}-{{p|Teddiursa|based}} Pokémon.
:[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']][[Pikachu (Pokémon)|'''⚡''']] 23:06, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

I trimmed down the article and removed many unnecessary facts. Some of the facts that you removed were worth keeping. You don't hear anyone else mentioning [[Champion]] [[Lance]] of the [[Kanto]] and [[Johto]] regions, do you? And having Dive return as a [[HM]], a large desert, The Riches Family (which is battled in the same way as Winstrates), ocean currents, language on walls (which wasn't present anywhere in [[Sinnoh]]), etc. is all there so that the programmers won't have to make much changes to the engine of Black and White for the remakes of Ruby and Sapphire. The same thing happened in [[Generation IV]]. [[HeartGold and SoulSilver]] were modified heavily off of [[Pokémon Platinum]]'s game engine and there was a good amount of similarities between [[Johto]] and [[Sinnoh]] ([[Jasmine]]'s appearance, [[Gym Leader]] line-up, interaction with trees, etc.). --[[User:Dialgafan1|Dialgafan1]] 00:20, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
:Okay, I have trimmed down it again, and I will list my reasons here. There are just as many Sinnoh Pokémon only available via the Dream World or Poké Transfer as Hoenn ones; therefore, it is meaningless. Nobody mentions Lance, but someone does mention Cynthia; in fact, she appears there. Most likely, nobody mentions Lance because they haven't decided whether he will be Champion at this time. Currents also appeared in FRLG. There is a sandstorm area in Sinnoh too; sure, it is post-Elite Four, but that shouldn't mean anything. You can draw a tonne of parallels between Gym Leaders (7th Gym Ice anyone?), but none of them even come close to hinting a remake. No previous NPCs at all appeared in RS (both Gen I and II NPCs were absent); this is not the case in Black and White, and this is not what happened in DPPt. Yes, because not mentioning Team Aqua and Magma means that they can screw the storyline over and retcon it into another time period over 3 years later (presentably 3 years + the age of TR Grunt's son + 9 months). If they wanted to put Hoenn at the same time as Unova, they would have put Unova in Hoenn's time. Hoenn certainly isn't the only region with a Safari Ball, and they had no issue programming in capture animations for the Apricorn Balls and Sport Ball in HGSS.
:There are a few other things that I still think are non-hints—Go-Goggles mention, The Riches, reference to Hoenn in Undella Town, having two rivals, Armoldo fossil—but I have left them anyway. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 12:05, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

==Should this be added?==

*[[Bianca]] and {{ga|May}}/{{ga|Brendan}} both give out the [[Dowsing MCHN]] and [[HM02]]. Coincidentally, both items are obtained after defeating the second and fifth gyms of the region.

Probably not because it is just coincidental. Just wanted to ask before adding it and getting in trouble. --[[User:Dialgafan1|Dialgafan1]] 17:55, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

== Recent Developments from Junichi Masuda's Twitter Account ==

I'm still learning the ropes here, so I really don't know how to add this new development to the page. This development was covered by Bulbanews, which in turn got its information direct from Masuda's twitter feed. http://bulbanews.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Masuda_replies_to_tweet_regarding_remakes_of_Generation_III_games --[[User:Marilynasol|Marilynasol]] 15:49, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
:Actually, it's already there on the right-hand side of the page. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 00:20, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

== Notable? ==

I noticed that while Pokémon most Pokémon from the original four regions other than Hoenn retain sprites from one of older games (with not so many Pokémon having different sprites, like {{p|Ampharos}}. On other side, some have bigger changes than just pose, like eg. {{p|Phanpy}} or {{p|Donphan}}), many (if not all) of Hoenn Pokémon got their sprites visibly updated in B/W (not just poses but also colors, visible on eg. {{p|Grovyle}}, {{p|Regice}} or {{p|Combusken}}) [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] 19:28, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
:That's likely because the Hoenn Pokémon were the only Pokémon to ''not'' get their sprites updated at all in the 4th gen. Doubt it has anything at all to do with a remake. - [[User:Blazios|Blazios]] [[User Talk:Blazios|talk]] 19:35, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
::Except {{p|Registeel}}. inb4 Nazi Salute. Every other Hoenn mon had one Gen IV sprite, it was the same through DPPtHGSS. Before I got Internet, I though that sprites from R/S are how they should look. Now I know they're not (inb4 Grovyle with {{tt|blue|WTF? At least Treecko and Sceptile have green-a-like leaves, while Grovyle had obvious BLUE leaves}} leaves and Seedot with gray/grey "hat"). [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] 20:19, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
:::Registeel had its sprite edited for European D/P, making it a localisation change to begin with that was eventually universally implemented. It was about as much of an update as Imprison's animation change is (As in not at all). Not that that has anything to do with anything. - [[User:Blazios|Blazios]] [[User Talk:Blazios|talk]] 20:29, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

== Johto? ==

Did May compete contests in Johto? I thought it was in Hoenn. [[User:Nickvang|Nickvang]] 17:28, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
:After the Advanced Generation ended may went on to Johto to continue contests. [[User:Pokemaster97|--Pokemaster]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|97]] 17:34, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
Right? But Johto doesn't even have contests? [[User:Nickvang|Nickvang]] 17:36, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
::It does in the anime, apparently.--[[User:MisterE13|Mister]][[User talk:MisterE13|'''E''']][[Special:Contributions/MisterE13|13]] 17:43, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

== Starters. ==

While Kanto, Johto and Sinnoh have different base stats total for each unevolved starter (apparently 309 for Fire-types, 314 for Water-types and 318 for Grass-types), Hoenn and Unova have all unevolved starters at the same base stat total (310 and 308 respectively). [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] 20:22, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

==Deep Sand==
Black & White has sand tiles (in the Desert Resort and Route 4) where wild Pokémon can be encountered, a mechanic introduced in Gen III but not used in Gen IV. I say this is evidence for Ruby & Sapphire remakes. —'''[[User:Team Magma Zangoose|Team Magma]] [[User talk:Team Magma Zangoose|Zangoose ⚡]]''' 04:57, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
:That's not evidence.. Sorry. [[User:Han Ji-Wan|Han Ji-Wan]] 07:04, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

still a bit suspicous to me but yeah, to me probably a coincidence, really significant hints are triple battles or dive hm returning or even dive ball returning to original function. Then again, you could be right considering nintendo is not known to do random stuff [[User:Mastervictini|Mastervictini]] 20:56, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

== suspicous black and white 2 logo? a hint to ruby and sapphire possibly ==

[[User:Mastervictini|Mastervictini]] 21:02, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

I noticed the logo for pokemon black and white looks like it may be hinting to Hoenn,the ice is red and blue for white kyurem and black kyurem but the ice looks more like crystals then ice to me. It is probably just my imagination or a coincidence but the logo looks incredibly suspicous
[[User:Mastervictini|Mastervictini]] 21:02, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

== safari ball throwing animation and contest stats ==

if there were going to be no remakes why have a s-ball throwing animation, they went to the troble of removing hms 7 and 8 which are now blank spaces yet no safari zone is in Unova but they kept the animation which probably means future gen v games based in Hoenn will have a safari zone.
The hidden contest stats are suspicous and the fact that ribbons are programed but usually unobtainable outside of rare events is eyebrowraising
MasterVictini [[User:Mastervictini|Mastervictini]] 21:17, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
:The fact that generation IV key items are also hidden in the game code indicates that the hidden contest stats are likely copied code from generation IV games, rather than a hint of remakes. The same could be used to explain the safari ball throwing animation. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] [[User talk:Werdnae|(talk)]] 22:33, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

== red ,blue and green objects in recent movie 15 teaser trailer hinting somethig ==

I definately saw something looking a bit like 3 gems ruby, sapphire and emarald colored at one point during the video on pokemon smash
I dont have a link but the video is on fib I wonder if this is a hint especially considering the video was offical {{unsigned|Mastervictini}}
:[http://youtu.be/VGsFtHQtRPM This trailer]? I've watched it a few times and I still can't see any such gems. Can you screenshot them from it, if that is the video? --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 07:19, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

it was not in the actual movie it was in that room with those japanese guys on pokemon smash to their left - {{unsigned|Mastervictini}}

[[User:Mastervictini|Mastervictini]] 15:48, 31 March 2012 (UTC) whoops, I watched the pokemon smash episode AGAIN but the "red blue green gems" are actually bags or something similar. sorry about that (the "red" is not even red, more like pink)

Kyurem VS The Sacred Swordsman Keldeo Trailer

==The R/S remakes speculation part...==
Needs to mention some of the theory's criticism, like the Pokémon Gold and Silver remake speculation article did for that theory. - [[User:Ericss|Ericss]] 23:01, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

Talk:Remake

2012-03-31T15:49:29Z

Mastervictini: /* red ,blue and green objects in recent movie 15 teaser trailer hinting somethig */

==Third versions==
By the definition of remake in the article, wouldn't the third versions be considered remakes? [[User:Turtwig A|Turtwig's]] [[Turtwig (Pokémon)|A-B-Cs]] ([[User talk:Turtwig A|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|contribs]]) 21:50, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
:^ It's [[User:Turtwig A|Turtwig A]]! [[User talk:Turtwig A|My talk]] or [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|wiki edits]] 00:46, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

==Speculation section==
Do we really need it? It is all speculation, and I could dismiss half of it. Sure, it's tagged as speculation, but it doesn't make it fine to put in the article. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 11:33, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
:Or it can be moved to an article of its own like the GS remake one. There are evidences of it, somewhat like shipping. [[User:Tc26/Anime Predictions|tc]][[User:Tc26|²₆]][[User talk:Tc26|tc]][[User:Tc26/Sandbox|26]] 11:36, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
::I thought that got deleted because we didn't want an article full of just speculation. I think this kind of thing is best suited for the forums. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 12:15, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

== Sinnoh League Ground ==

It is worth mentioning that in Platinum in Sinnoh League building there is a ground with a red outer side, blue inner side and green-like moving lines (which could reference to R/S/E colors) [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] 21:28, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
:I don't think that's notable enough to be mentioned in the article. I'd say it's just pure coincidence. [[User:Han Ji-Wan|Han Ji-Wan]] 00:22, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

== Prefix ==

From what I've noticed, remakes have some sort of prefix at the begining
 '''Heart'''Gold
 '''Soul'''Silver
 '''Fire'''Red
 '''Leaf'''Green
 Should this be noted? [[User:Pgj1997|Pgj1997]] 16:25, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
:It's not really that interesting. :--[[User:SuperAipom7|SuperAipom7]] ''([[User talk:SuperAipom7|Questions?]])'' 16:26, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
::So? {{unsigned|Pgj1997}}

== So-called evidence ==

A lot of the 'evidence' in the Speculation section seems really unneccesary. What does bringing back ocean currents, an area with a sandstorm, or Ash's party in DP189, have anything to do with a possible remake? I think the section needs trimming. [[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']][[Pikachu (Pokémon)|'''⚡''']] 20:41, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
:^ Ocean currents and sandstorms were introduced in Gen III and Ash used some of his Hoenn Pokémon in that episode. That is why they were added. I'm not saying they are the best piece of evidence, just saying why they were added. --[[User:HoennMaster|Hoenn]][[User talk:HoennMaster|Master]] 20:56, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
::I know, but they are not the same as, for example, Johto being coded in as a trade location, or Dawn traveling to Hoenn after SS024, opening the possibility of an anime reappearance for Hoenn. I guess they would have to re-code the ocean currents and the sandstorms back into the game, so thats fine, but as for DP189, thats from the Gen IV series, if Ash were to recall his Hoenn Pokemon in the Best Wishes series it would be notable. And a hiddden note next to it actually states that he only has three AG Pokemon on his team not including Pikachu (Sceptile, Swellow, Torkoal), Pikachu is what makes it "most of his team". Regarding some other points:
* ''The sixth Gym Leader of Unova, [[Skyla]], is a Flying-type specialist and lives near a rainy area, like [[Winona]] from Hoenn and both are the sixth Gym Leader in their respective regions.''
::Like Winona and Skyla, Pryce, Candice and Brycen are Ice-type gym leaders #7, but it doesnt mean that HeartGold/SoulSilver and Diamond/Pearl will get remakes.
* ''A fossil depicting an {{p|Armaldo}} in the [[Nacrene City]] museum.''
::Dragonite has a far more notable appearance, but it doesnt mean that they will remake FireRed/LeafGreen. And Armaldo is not unobtainable in BW.
* ''A {{tc|Backpacker}} in [[Desert Resort]] tells the player that he comes from Hoenn, and that he doesn't need the [[Go-Goggles]] here unlike in Hoenn.''
* ''In [[Undella Town]] during Summer, a boy tells the player that he and his family comes from Hoenn and visit Undella Town every Summer. A girl also mentions [[Steven Stone]]. ''
:: Random characters may mention Hoenn, but they also mention other regions.
* ''No characters introduced in Generation III are reused in Black and White, unlike other generations which saw characters repeated in these games. [[Cynthia]], [[Looker]], [[Caitlin]], and a former {{tc|Team Rocket Grunt}} were introduced before they appeared in Black and White.''
::This is actually evidence against a remake, Jasmine appeared in DP, and her games got a remake.
* ''The introduction of {{p|Maractus|another}} {{p|Cacnea|cactus}}-{{p|Cacturne|based}} Pokémon.''
:It also introduced another {{p|Bouffalant|bull}}-{{p|Tauros|based}} {{p|Miltank|Pokémon}}, {{p|Drilbur|mole}}-{{p|Diglett|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Baoppu|fire}} {{p|Hihidaruma|ape}}-{{p|Chimchar|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Munna|baku}}-{{p|Drowzee|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Zebraika|horse}}-{{p|Ponyta|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Koromori|bat}}-{{p|Zubat|based}} {{p|Gliscor|Pokémon}}, {{p|Dokkora|Machop}}-{{p|Machop|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Tympole|tadpole}}-{{p|Poliwag|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Nageki|Hit}}{{p|Dageki|mon}}-{{p|Hitmonlee|based}} {{p|Hitmonchan|Pokémon}}, {{p|Cottonee|cotton plant}}-{{p|Hoppip|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Lilligant|feminine, rafflesia}}-{{p|Bellossom|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Archen|fossil prehistoric bird}}-{{p|Aerodactyl|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Zoroark|kitsune}}-{{p|Ninetales|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Foongus|fungi}}-{{p|Shuckle|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Frillish|Jellyfish}}-{{p|Tentacool|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Galvantula|spider}}-{{p|Ariados|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Kumasyun|bear}}-{{p|Teddiursa|based}} Pokémon.
:[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']][[Pikachu (Pokémon)|'''⚡''']] 23:06, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

I trimmed down the article and removed many unnecessary facts. Some of the facts that you removed were worth keeping. You don't hear anyone else mentioning [[Champion]] [[Lance]] of the [[Kanto]] and [[Johto]] regions, do you? And having Dive return as a [[HM]], a large desert, The Riches Family (which is battled in the same way as Winstrates), ocean currents, language on walls (which wasn't present anywhere in [[Sinnoh]]), etc. is all there so that the programmers won't have to make much changes to the engine of Black and White for the remakes of Ruby and Sapphire. The same thing happened in [[Generation IV]]. [[HeartGold and SoulSilver]] were modified heavily off of [[Pokémon Platinum]]'s game engine and there was a good amount of similarities between [[Johto]] and [[Sinnoh]] ([[Jasmine]]'s appearance, [[Gym Leader]] line-up, interaction with trees, etc.). --[[User:Dialgafan1|Dialgafan1]] 00:20, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
:Okay, I have trimmed down it again, and I will list my reasons here. There are just as many Sinnoh Pokémon only available via the Dream World or Poké Transfer as Hoenn ones; therefore, it is meaningless. Nobody mentions Lance, but someone does mention Cynthia; in fact, she appears there. Most likely, nobody mentions Lance because they haven't decided whether he will be Champion at this time. Currents also appeared in FRLG. There is a sandstorm area in Sinnoh too; sure, it is post-Elite Four, but that shouldn't mean anything. You can draw a tonne of parallels between Gym Leaders (7th Gym Ice anyone?), but none of them even come close to hinting a remake. No previous NPCs at all appeared in RS (both Gen I and II NPCs were absent); this is not the case in Black and White, and this is not what happened in DPPt. Yes, because not mentioning Team Aqua and Magma means that they can screw the storyline over and retcon it into another time period over 3 years later (presentably 3 years + the age of TR Grunt's son + 9 months). If they wanted to put Hoenn at the same time as Unova, they would have put Unova in Hoenn's time. Hoenn certainly isn't the only region with a Safari Ball, and they had no issue programming in capture animations for the Apricorn Balls and Sport Ball in HGSS.
:There are a few other things that I still think are non-hints—Go-Goggles mention, The Riches, reference to Hoenn in Undella Town, having two rivals, Armoldo fossil—but I have left them anyway. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 12:05, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

==Should this be added?==

*[[Bianca]] and {{ga|May}}/{{ga|Brendan}} both give out the [[Dowsing MCHN]] and [[HM02]]. Coincidentally, both items are obtained after defeating the second and fifth gyms of the region.

Probably not because it is just coincidental. Just wanted to ask before adding it and getting in trouble. --[[User:Dialgafan1|Dialgafan1]] 17:55, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

== Recent Developments from Junichi Masuda's Twitter Account ==

I'm still learning the ropes here, so I really don't know how to add this new development to the page. This development was covered by Bulbanews, which in turn got its information direct from Masuda's twitter feed. http://bulbanews.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Masuda_replies_to_tweet_regarding_remakes_of_Generation_III_games --[[User:Marilynasol|Marilynasol]] 15:49, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
:Actually, it's already there on the right-hand side of the page. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 00:20, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

== Notable? ==

I noticed that while Pokémon most Pokémon from the original four regions other than Hoenn retain sprites from one of older games (with not so many Pokémon having different sprites, like {{p|Ampharos}}. On other side, some have bigger changes than just pose, like eg. {{p|Phanpy}} or {{p|Donphan}}), many (if not all) of Hoenn Pokémon got their sprites visibly updated in B/W (not just poses but also colors, visible on eg. {{p|Grovyle}}, {{p|Regice}} or {{p|Combusken}}) [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] 19:28, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
:That's likely because the Hoenn Pokémon were the only Pokémon to ''not'' get their sprites updated at all in the 4th gen. Doubt it has anything at all to do with a remake. - [[User:Blazios|Blazios]] [[User Talk:Blazios|talk]] 19:35, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
::Except {{p|Registeel}}. inb4 Nazi Salute. Every other Hoenn mon had one Gen IV sprite, it was the same through DPPtHGSS. Before I got Internet, I though that sprites from R/S are how they should look. Now I know they're not (inb4 Grovyle with {{tt|blue|WTF? At least Treecko and Sceptile have green-a-like leaves, while Grovyle had obvious BLUE leaves}} leaves and Seedot with gray/grey "hat"). [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] 20:19, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
:::Registeel had its sprite edited for European D/P, making it a localisation change to begin with that was eventually universally implemented. It was about as much of an update as Imprison's animation change is (As in not at all). Not that that has anything to do with anything. - [[User:Blazios|Blazios]] [[User Talk:Blazios|talk]] 20:29, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

== Johto? ==

Did May compete contests in Johto? I thought it was in Hoenn. [[User:Nickvang|Nickvang]] 17:28, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
:After the Advanced Generation ended may went on to Johto to continue contests. [[User:Pokemaster97|--Pokemaster]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|97]] 17:34, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
Right? But Johto doesn't even have contests? [[User:Nickvang|Nickvang]] 17:36, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
::It does in the anime, apparently.--[[User:MisterE13|Mister]][[User talk:MisterE13|'''E''']][[Special:Contributions/MisterE13|13]] 17:43, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

== Starters. ==

While Kanto, Johto and Sinnoh have different base stats total for each unevolved starter (apparently 309 for Fire-types, 314 for Water-types and 318 for Grass-types), Hoenn and Unova have all unevolved starters at the same base stat total (310 and 308 respectively). [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] 20:22, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

==Deep Sand==
Black & White has sand tiles (in the Desert Resort and Route 4) where wild Pokémon can be encountered, a mechanic introduced in Gen III but not used in Gen IV. I say this is evidence for Ruby & Sapphire remakes. —'''[[User:Team Magma Zangoose|Team Magma]] [[User talk:Team Magma Zangoose|Zangoose ⚡]]''' 04:57, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
:That's not evidence.. Sorry. [[User:Han Ji-Wan|Han Ji-Wan]] 07:04, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

still a bit suspicous to me but yeah, to me probably a coincidence, really significant hints are triple battles or dive hm returning or even dive ball returning to original function. Then again, you could be right considering nintendo is not known to do random stuff [[User:Mastervictini|Mastervictini]] 20:56, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

== suspicous black and white 2 logo? a hint to ruby and sapphire possibly ==

[[User:Mastervictini|Mastervictini]] 21:02, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

I noticed the logo for pokemon black and white looks like it may be hinting to Hoenn,the ice is red and blue for white kyurem and black kyurem but the ice looks more like crystals then ice to me. It is probably just my imagination or a coincidence but the logo looks incredibly suspicous
[[User:Mastervictini|Mastervictini]] 21:02, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

== safari ball throwing animation and contest stats ==

if there were going to be no remakes why have a s-ball throwing animation, they went to the troble of removing hms 7 and 8 which are now blank spaces yet no safari zone is in Unova but they kept the animation which probably means future gen v games based in Hoenn will have a safari zone.
The hidden contest stats are suspicous and the fact that ribbons are programed but usually unobtainable outside of rare events is eyebrowraising
MasterVictini [[User:Mastervictini|Mastervictini]] 21:17, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
:The fact that generation IV key items are also hidden in the game code indicates that the hidden contest stats are likely copied code from generation IV games, rather than a hint of remakes. The same could be used to explain the safari ball throwing animation. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] [[User talk:Werdnae|(talk)]] 22:33, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

== red ,blue and green objects in recent movie 15 teaser trailer hinting somethig ==

I definately saw something looking a bit like 3 gems ruby, sapphire and emarald colored at one point during the video on pokemon smash
I dont have a link but the video is on fib I wonder if this is a hint especially considering the video was offical {{unsigned|Mastervictini}}
:[http://youtu.be/VGsFtHQtRPM This trailer]? I've watched it a few times and I still can't see any such gems. Can you screenshot them from it, if that is the video? --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 07:19, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

it was not in the actual movie it was in that room with those japanese guys on pokemon smash to their left - {{unsigned|Mastervictini}}

[[User:Mastervictini|Mastervictini]] 15:48, 31 March 2012 (UTC) whoops, I watched the pokemon smash episode AGAIN but the "red blue green gems" are actually bags or something similar. sorry about that

==The R/S remakes speculation part...==
Needs to mention some of the theory's criticism, like the Pokémon Gold and Silver remake speculation article did for that theory. - [[User:Ericss|Ericss]] 23:01, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

Talk:Remake

2012-03-31T15:48:49Z

Mastervictini: /* red ,blue and green objects in recent movie 15 teaser trailer hinting somethig */

==Third versions==
By the definition of remake in the article, wouldn't the third versions be considered remakes? [[User:Turtwig A|Turtwig's]] [[Turtwig (Pokémon)|A-B-Cs]] ([[User talk:Turtwig A|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|contribs]]) 21:50, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
:^ It's [[User:Turtwig A|Turtwig A]]! [[User talk:Turtwig A|My talk]] or [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|wiki edits]] 00:46, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

==Speculation section==
Do we really need it? It is all speculation, and I could dismiss half of it. Sure, it's tagged as speculation, but it doesn't make it fine to put in the article. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 11:33, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
:Or it can be moved to an article of its own like the GS remake one. There are evidences of it, somewhat like shipping. [[User:Tc26/Anime Predictions|tc]][[User:Tc26|²₆]][[User talk:Tc26|tc]][[User:Tc26/Sandbox|26]] 11:36, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
::I thought that got deleted because we didn't want an article full of just speculation. I think this kind of thing is best suited for the forums. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 12:15, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

== Sinnoh League Ground ==

It is worth mentioning that in Platinum in Sinnoh League building there is a ground with a red outer side, blue inner side and green-like moving lines (which could reference to R/S/E colors) [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] 21:28, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
:I don't think that's notable enough to be mentioned in the article. I'd say it's just pure coincidence. [[User:Han Ji-Wan|Han Ji-Wan]] 00:22, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

== Prefix ==

From what I've noticed, remakes have some sort of prefix at the begining
 '''Heart'''Gold
 '''Soul'''Silver
 '''Fire'''Red
 '''Leaf'''Green
 Should this be noted? [[User:Pgj1997|Pgj1997]] 16:25, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
:It's not really that interesting. :--[[User:SuperAipom7|SuperAipom7]] ''([[User talk:SuperAipom7|Questions?]])'' 16:26, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
::So? {{unsigned|Pgj1997}}

== So-called evidence ==

A lot of the 'evidence' in the Speculation section seems really unneccesary. What does bringing back ocean currents, an area with a sandstorm, or Ash's party in DP189, have anything to do with a possible remake? I think the section needs trimming. [[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']][[Pikachu (Pokémon)|'''⚡''']] 20:41, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
:^ Ocean currents and sandstorms were introduced in Gen III and Ash used some of his Hoenn Pokémon in that episode. That is why they were added. I'm not saying they are the best piece of evidence, just saying why they were added. --[[User:HoennMaster|Hoenn]][[User talk:HoennMaster|Master]] 20:56, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
::I know, but they are not the same as, for example, Johto being coded in as a trade location, or Dawn traveling to Hoenn after SS024, opening the possibility of an anime reappearance for Hoenn. I guess they would have to re-code the ocean currents and the sandstorms back into the game, so thats fine, but as for DP189, thats from the Gen IV series, if Ash were to recall his Hoenn Pokemon in the Best Wishes series it would be notable. And a hiddden note next to it actually states that he only has three AG Pokemon on his team not including Pikachu (Sceptile, Swellow, Torkoal), Pikachu is what makes it "most of his team". Regarding some other points:
* ''The sixth Gym Leader of Unova, [[Skyla]], is a Flying-type specialist and lives near a rainy area, like [[Winona]] from Hoenn and both are the sixth Gym Leader in their respective regions.''
::Like Winona and Skyla, Pryce, Candice and Brycen are Ice-type gym leaders #7, but it doesnt mean that HeartGold/SoulSilver and Diamond/Pearl will get remakes.
* ''A fossil depicting an {{p|Armaldo}} in the [[Nacrene City]] museum.''
::Dragonite has a far more notable appearance, but it doesnt mean that they will remake FireRed/LeafGreen. And Armaldo is not unobtainable in BW.
* ''A {{tc|Backpacker}} in [[Desert Resort]] tells the player that he comes from Hoenn, and that he doesn't need the [[Go-Goggles]] here unlike in Hoenn.''
* ''In [[Undella Town]] during Summer, a boy tells the player that he and his family comes from Hoenn and visit Undella Town every Summer. A girl also mentions [[Steven Stone]]. ''
:: Random characters may mention Hoenn, but they also mention other regions.
* ''No characters introduced in Generation III are reused in Black and White, unlike other generations which saw characters repeated in these games. [[Cynthia]], [[Looker]], [[Caitlin]], and a former {{tc|Team Rocket Grunt}} were introduced before they appeared in Black and White.''
::This is actually evidence against a remake, Jasmine appeared in DP, and her games got a remake.
* ''The introduction of {{p|Maractus|another}} {{p|Cacnea|cactus}}-{{p|Cacturne|based}} Pokémon.''
:It also introduced another {{p|Bouffalant|bull}}-{{p|Tauros|based}} {{p|Miltank|Pokémon}}, {{p|Drilbur|mole}}-{{p|Diglett|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Baoppu|fire}} {{p|Hihidaruma|ape}}-{{p|Chimchar|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Munna|baku}}-{{p|Drowzee|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Zebraika|horse}}-{{p|Ponyta|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Koromori|bat}}-{{p|Zubat|based}} {{p|Gliscor|Pokémon}}, {{p|Dokkora|Machop}}-{{p|Machop|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Tympole|tadpole}}-{{p|Poliwag|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Nageki|Hit}}{{p|Dageki|mon}}-{{p|Hitmonlee|based}} {{p|Hitmonchan|Pokémon}}, {{p|Cottonee|cotton plant}}-{{p|Hoppip|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Lilligant|feminine, rafflesia}}-{{p|Bellossom|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Archen|fossil prehistoric bird}}-{{p|Aerodactyl|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Zoroark|kitsune}}-{{p|Ninetales|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Foongus|fungi}}-{{p|Shuckle|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Frillish|Jellyfish}}-{{p|Tentacool|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Galvantula|spider}}-{{p|Ariados|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Kumasyun|bear}}-{{p|Teddiursa|based}} Pokémon.
:[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']][[Pikachu (Pokémon)|'''⚡''']] 23:06, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

I trimmed down the article and removed many unnecessary facts. Some of the facts that you removed were worth keeping. You don't hear anyone else mentioning [[Champion]] [[Lance]] of the [[Kanto]] and [[Johto]] regions, do you? And having Dive return as a [[HM]], a large desert, The Riches Family (which is battled in the same way as Winstrates), ocean currents, language on walls (which wasn't present anywhere in [[Sinnoh]]), etc. is all there so that the programmers won't have to make much changes to the engine of Black and White for the remakes of Ruby and Sapphire. The same thing happened in [[Generation IV]]. [[HeartGold and SoulSilver]] were modified heavily off of [[Pokémon Platinum]]'s game engine and there was a good amount of similarities between [[Johto]] and [[Sinnoh]] ([[Jasmine]]'s appearance, [[Gym Leader]] line-up, interaction with trees, etc.). --[[User:Dialgafan1|Dialgafan1]] 00:20, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
:Okay, I have trimmed down it again, and I will list my reasons here. There are just as many Sinnoh Pokémon only available via the Dream World or Poké Transfer as Hoenn ones; therefore, it is meaningless. Nobody mentions Lance, but someone does mention Cynthia; in fact, she appears there. Most likely, nobody mentions Lance because they haven't decided whether he will be Champion at this time. Currents also appeared in FRLG. There is a sandstorm area in Sinnoh too; sure, it is post-Elite Four, but that shouldn't mean anything. You can draw a tonne of parallels between Gym Leaders (7th Gym Ice anyone?), but none of them even come close to hinting a remake. No previous NPCs at all appeared in RS (both Gen I and II NPCs were absent); this is not the case in Black and White, and this is not what happened in DPPt. Yes, because not mentioning Team Aqua and Magma means that they can screw the storyline over and retcon it into another time period over 3 years later (presentably 3 years + the age of TR Grunt's son + 9 months). If they wanted to put Hoenn at the same time as Unova, they would have put Unova in Hoenn's time. Hoenn certainly isn't the only region with a Safari Ball, and they had no issue programming in capture animations for the Apricorn Balls and Sport Ball in HGSS.
:There are a few other things that I still think are non-hints—Go-Goggles mention, The Riches, reference to Hoenn in Undella Town, having two rivals, Armoldo fossil—but I have left them anyway. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 12:05, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

==Should this be added?==

*[[Bianca]] and {{ga|May}}/{{ga|Brendan}} both give out the [[Dowsing MCHN]] and [[HM02]]. Coincidentally, both items are obtained after defeating the second and fifth gyms of the region.

Probably not because it is just coincidental. Just wanted to ask before adding it and getting in trouble. --[[User:Dialgafan1|Dialgafan1]] 17:55, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

== Recent Developments from Junichi Masuda's Twitter Account ==

I'm still learning the ropes here, so I really don't know how to add this new development to the page. This development was covered by Bulbanews, which in turn got its information direct from Masuda's twitter feed. http://bulbanews.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Masuda_replies_to_tweet_regarding_remakes_of_Generation_III_games --[[User:Marilynasol|Marilynasol]] 15:49, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
:Actually, it's already there on the right-hand side of the page. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 00:20, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

== Notable? ==

I noticed that while Pokémon most Pokémon from the original four regions other than Hoenn retain sprites from one of older games (with not so many Pokémon having different sprites, like {{p|Ampharos}}. On other side, some have bigger changes than just pose, like eg. {{p|Phanpy}} or {{p|Donphan}}), many (if not all) of Hoenn Pokémon got their sprites visibly updated in B/W (not just poses but also colors, visible on eg. {{p|Grovyle}}, {{p|Regice}} or {{p|Combusken}}) [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] 19:28, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
:That's likely because the Hoenn Pokémon were the only Pokémon to ''not'' get their sprites updated at all in the 4th gen. Doubt it has anything at all to do with a remake. - [[User:Blazios|Blazios]] [[User Talk:Blazios|talk]] 19:35, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
::Except {{p|Registeel}}. inb4 Nazi Salute. Every other Hoenn mon had one Gen IV sprite, it was the same through DPPtHGSS. Before I got Internet, I though that sprites from R/S are how they should look. Now I know they're not (inb4 Grovyle with {{tt|blue|WTF? At least Treecko and Sceptile have green-a-like leaves, while Grovyle had obvious BLUE leaves}} leaves and Seedot with gray/grey "hat"). [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] 20:19, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
:::Registeel had its sprite edited for European D/P, making it a localisation change to begin with that was eventually universally implemented. It was about as much of an update as Imprison's animation change is (As in not at all). Not that that has anything to do with anything. - [[User:Blazios|Blazios]] [[User Talk:Blazios|talk]] 20:29, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

== Johto? ==

Did May compete contests in Johto? I thought it was in Hoenn. [[User:Nickvang|Nickvang]] 17:28, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
:After the Advanced Generation ended may went on to Johto to continue contests. [[User:Pokemaster97|--Pokemaster]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|97]] 17:34, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
Right? But Johto doesn't even have contests? [[User:Nickvang|Nickvang]] 17:36, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
::It does in the anime, apparently.--[[User:MisterE13|Mister]][[User talk:MisterE13|'''E''']][[Special:Contributions/MisterE13|13]] 17:43, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

== Starters. ==

While Kanto, Johto and Sinnoh have different base stats total for each unevolved starter (apparently 309 for Fire-types, 314 for Water-types and 318 for Grass-types), Hoenn and Unova have all unevolved starters at the same base stat total (310 and 308 respectively). [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] 20:22, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

==Deep Sand==
Black & White has sand tiles (in the Desert Resort and Route 4) where wild Pokémon can be encountered, a mechanic introduced in Gen III but not used in Gen IV. I say this is evidence for Ruby & Sapphire remakes. —'''[[User:Team Magma Zangoose|Team Magma]] [[User talk:Team Magma Zangoose|Zangoose ⚡]]''' 04:57, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
:That's not evidence.. Sorry. [[User:Han Ji-Wan|Han Ji-Wan]] 07:04, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

still a bit suspicous to me but yeah, to me probably a coincidence, really significant hints are triple battles or dive hm returning or even dive ball returning to original function. Then again, you could be right considering nintendo is not known to do random stuff [[User:Mastervictini|Mastervictini]] 20:56, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

== suspicous black and white 2 logo? a hint to ruby and sapphire possibly ==

[[User:Mastervictini|Mastervictini]] 21:02, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

I noticed the logo for pokemon black and white looks like it may be hinting to Hoenn,the ice is red and blue for white kyurem and black kyurem but the ice looks more like crystals then ice to me. It is probably just my imagination or a coincidence but the logo looks incredibly suspicous
[[User:Mastervictini|Mastervictini]] 21:02, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

== safari ball throwing animation and contest stats ==

if there were going to be no remakes why have a s-ball throwing animation, they went to the troble of removing hms 7 and 8 which are now blank spaces yet no safari zone is in Unova but they kept the animation which probably means future gen v games based in Hoenn will have a safari zone.
The hidden contest stats are suspicous and the fact that ribbons are programed but usually unobtainable outside of rare events is eyebrowraising
MasterVictini [[User:Mastervictini|Mastervictini]] 21:17, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
:The fact that generation IV key items are also hidden in the game code indicates that the hidden contest stats are likely copied code from generation IV games, rather than a hint of remakes. The same could be used to explain the safari ball throwing animation. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] [[User talk:Werdnae|(talk)]] 22:33, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

== red ,blue and green objects in recent movie 15 teaser trailer hinting somethig ==

I definately saw something looking a bit like 3 gems ruby, sapphire and emarald colored at one point during the video on pokemon smash
I dont have a link but the video is on fib I wonder if this is a hint especially considering the video was offical {{unsigned|Mastervictini}}
:[http://youtu.be/VGsFtHQtRPM This trailer]? I've watched it a few times and I still can't see any such gems. Can you screenshot them from it, if that is the video? --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 07:19, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

it was not in the actual movie it was in that room with those japanese guys on pokemon smash to their left - {{unsigned|Mastervictini}}

[[User:Mastervictini|Mastervictini]] 15:48, 31 March 2012 (UTC) whoops, I watched the pokemon smash episode but the "red blue green gems" are actually bags or something similar. sorry about that

==The R/S remakes speculation part...==
Needs to mention some of the theory's criticism, like the Pokémon Gold and Silver remake speculation article did for that theory. - [[User:Ericss|Ericss]] 23:01, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

Chandelure (Pokémon)

2012-03-20T22:41:06Z

Mastervictini: /* Diet */

{{PokémonPrevNext | prev=Lampent| next=Axew| prevnum=608 | nextnum=610 | type=Ghost | type2=Fire }}
{{PokémonInfobox |
name=Chandelure |
jname=シャンデラ |
tmname=Chandela |
size=180px |
art=BW |
pron=<sc>''{{{pron|shan-de-lure}}}''</sc> |
species=Luring |
typen=2 |
type1=Ghost |
type2=Fire |
abilityn=2 |
ability1=Flash Fire |
ability2=Flame Body |
abilityd=Shadow Tag |
ndex=609 |
udex=115 |
height-ftin=3'03" |
height-m=1.0 |
weight-lbs=75.6 |
weight-kg=34.3 |
egggroupn=1 |
egggroup1=Amorphous |
egggroup2= |
eggcycles=20 |
expyield=234 |
lv100exp=1,059,860 |
evsa=3 |
gendercode=127 |
color=Black |
catchrate=45 |
body=04 |
pokefordex=chandelure |
generation=5 |
footnotes= |
}}

'''Chandelure''' ([[List of Japanese Pokémon names|Japanese]]: '''シャンデラ''' ''Chandela'') is a dual-type {{2t|Ghost|Fire}} Pokémon.

It evolves from {{p|Lampent}} when exposed to a {{evostone|Dusk Stone}}. It is the final form of {{p|Litwick}}.

==Biology==
===Physiology===
Chandelure is a chandelier-like Pokémon with a striped, round head, as well as round and pupil-less yellow eyes. It has small black spikes atop its head from which a tall purple flame flares. It has a black spike below its head, with curling black lamp-holding structures from below its head keeping purple flames at their tips.

====Gender differences====
None.

===Special abilities===
The swaying of the fire on Chandelure's arms hypnotizes its opponents. Chandelure's flames do not burn physically; rather, they burn up the victim's spirit.

===Behavior===
Chandelure sucks spirits out of living creatures then burns these spirits. Chandelure hypnotize victims by waving the flames on its arms.

===Habitat===

===Diet===
{{main|Pokémon food}}
It feasts on human spirits,according to the pokedex in genaration V.

==In the anime==
[[File:Ingo Chandelure.png|250px|thumb|right|Chandelure in the anime]]
===Major appearances===
Chandelure made its debut in ''[[BW048|Battle For The Underground!]]'' under {{FB|Subway Boss|Ingo}}'s ownership. It helped {{Ash}}, {{an|Iris}}, and {{an|Cilan}} rescue their Pokémon from Team Rocket. The same Chandelure later appeared in ''[[BW051|Lost at the Stamp Rally!]]'' in a tag battle with {{FB|Subway Boss|Emmet}}'s {{p|Eelektross}} against [[Ash's Tepig]] and [[Cilan's Pansage]].

===Minor appearances===

A Chandelure made a cameo appearance in [[BW069]].

===Pokédex entries===
{{Animedexheader|Unova}}
{{Animedexbody|BW048|Chandelure|Ash's Pokédex|Chandelure, the Luring Pokémon and the evolved form of Lampent. Chandelure uses its dancing flames to hypnotize opponents.}}
{{Animedexfooter/Pokémon|''Best Wishes''|Unova}}

==In the manga==

==In the TCG==
{{main|Chandelure (TCG)}}

==Game data==

===Pokédex entries===
{{Dex
|type=Ghost
|type2=Fire
|gen=5
|blackdex=It absorbs a spirit, which it then burns. By waving the flames on its arms, it puts its foes into a hypnotic trance.
|whitedex=Being consumed in Chandelure's flame burns up the spirit, leaving the body behind.
}}

===Game locations===
{{Availability|
type=Ghost|
type2=Fire|
gen=5 |
bwrarity=None|
bwarea=Evolve {{p|Lampent}} |
}}

====In side games====
{{SidegameAvail
|type=ghost
|type2=fire
|rumble2=Hauntyard: [[World Axle - B1F]]
}}

===Held items===

===Stats===
====Base stats====
{{Base Stats |
type=Ghost|
type2=Fire |
HP=60 |
Attack=55 |
Defense=90 |
SpAtk=145 |
SpDef=90 |
Speed=80 }}

===Type effectiveness===
{{Type effectiveness|
type1=Ghost|
type2=Fire|
Normal= 0 |
Fighting= 0 |
Flying= 100 |
Poison= 50 |
Ground= 200 |
Rock= 200 |
Bug= 25 |
Ghost= 200 |
Steel= 50 |

Fire= 50 |
Water= 200 |
Grass= 50 |
Electric= 100 |
Psychic= 100 |
Ice= 50 |
Dragon= 100 |
Dark= 200 |

notes=yes|
ghost=yes|
newnormal=1|
newfighting=1|
flashfire=maybe}}

===Learnset===
====By [[Level|leveling up]]====
{{learnlist/levelh|Chandelure|Ghost|Fire|5|5}}
{{learnlist/level5|Start|Smog|Poison|Special|20|70|20}}
{{learnlist/level5|Start|Confuse Ray|Ghost|Status|—|100|10}}
{{learnlist/level5|Start|Flame Burst|Fire|Special|70|100|15||'''}}
{{learnlist/level5|Start|Hex|Ghost|Special|50|100|10||'''}}
{{learnlist/levelf|Chandelure|Ghost|Fire|5|5}}

====By [[TM]]/[[HM]]====
{{learnlist/tmh|Chandelure|Ghost|Fire|5|5}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM04|Calm Mind|Psychic|Status|—|—|20}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM06|Toxic|Poison|Status|—|90|10}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM10|Hidden Power|Normal|Special|—|100|15}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM11|Sunny Day|Fire|Status|—|—|5}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM12|Taunt|Dark|Status|—|100|20}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM15|Hyper Beam|Normal|Special|150|90|5}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM17|Protect|Normal|Status|—|—|10}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM19|Telekinesis|Psychic|Status|—|—|15}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM20|Safeguard|Normal|Status|—|—|25}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM21|Frustration|Normal|Physical|—|100|20}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM22|SolarBeam|Grass|Special|120|100|10}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM27|Return|Normal|Physical|—|100|20}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM29|Psychic|Psychic|Special|90|100|10}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM30|Shadow Ball|Ghost|Special|80|100|15||'''}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM32|Double Team|Normal|Status|—|—|15}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM35|Flamethrower|Fire|Special|95|100|15||'''}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM38|Fire Blast|Fire|Special|120|85|5||'''}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM42|Facade|Normal|Physical|70|100|20}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM43|Flame Charge|Fire|Physical|50|100|20||'''}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM44|Rest|Psychic|Status|—|—|10}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM45|Attract|Normal|Status|—|100|15}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM46|Thief|Dark|Physical|40|100|10}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM48|Round|Normal|Special|60|100|15}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM50|Overheat|Fire|Special|140|90|5||'''}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM53|Energy Ball|Grass|Special|80|100|10}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM59|Incinerate|Fire|Special|30|100|15||'''}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM61|Will-O-Wisp|Fire|Status|—|75|15}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM63|Embargo|Dark|Status|—|100|15}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM66|Payback|Dark|Physical|50|100|10}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM68|Giga Impact|Normal|Physical|150|90|5}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM70|Flash|Normal|Status|—|100|20}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM77|Psych Up|Normal|Status|—|—|10}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM85|Dream Eater|Psychic|Special|100|100|15}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM87|Swagger|Normal|Status|—|90|15}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM90|Substitute|Normal|Status|—|—|10}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM92|Trick Room|Psychic|Status|—|—|5}}
{{learnlist/tmf|Chandelure|Ghost|Fire|5|5}}

====By {{pkmn|breeding}}====
{{learnlist/breedh|Chandelure|Ghost|Fire|5|5}}
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|603|Eelektrik}}{{MSP|604|Eelektross}}|Acid|Poison|Special|40|100|30|||}}
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|088|Grimer}}{{MSP|089|Muk}}|Acid Armor|Poison|Status|—|—|40|||}}
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|282|Gardevoir}}|Captivate|Normal|Status|—|100|20|||}}
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|109|Koffing}}{{MSP|110|Weezing}}|Clear Smog|Poison|Special|50|—|15|||}}
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|618|Stunfisk}}|Endure|Normal|Status|—|—|10|||}}
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|109|Koffing}}{{MSP|110|Weezing}}{{MSP|562|Yamask}}{{MSP|563|Cofagrigus}}|Haze|Ice|Status|—|—|30|||}}
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|218|Slugma}}{{MSP|219|Magcargo}}|Heat Wave|Fire|Special|100|90|10|||‡|'''}}{{learnlist/breedf|Chandelure|Ghost|Fire|5|5}}

====By [[Move tutor|tutoring]]====
{{learnlist/tutorh|Chandelure|ghost|fire|5|5}}
{{learnlist/tutor5null}}
{{learnlist/tutorf|Chandelure|ghost|fire|5|5}}

====By a prior [[evolution]]====
{{learnlist/prevoh|Chandelure|ghost|fire|5|5}}
{{Learnlist/prevo5|607|Litwick||608|Lampent||Ember|Fire|Special|40|100|25|'''}}
{{Learnlist/prevo5|607|Litwick||608|Lampent||Astonish|Ghost|Physical|30|100|15|'''}}
{{Learnlist/prevo5|607|Litwick||608|Lampent||Minimize|Normal|Status|—|—|20}}
{{Learnlist/prevo5|607|Litwick||608|Lampent||Fire Spin|Fire|Special|35|85|15|'''}}
{{Learnlist/prevo5|607|Litwick||608|Lampent||Night Shade|Ghost|Special|—|100|15}}
{{Learnlist/prevo5|607|Litwick||608|Lampent||Imprison|Psychic|Status|—|—|10}}
{{Learnlist/prevo5|607|Litwick||608|Lampent||Memento|Dark|Status|—|100|10}}
{{Learnlist/prevo5|607|Litwick||608|Lampent||Inferno|Fire|Special|100|50|5|'''}}
{{Learnlist/prevo5|607|Litwick||608|Lampent||Curse|Ghost|Status|—|—|10}}
{{Learnlist/prevo5|607|Litwick||608|Lampent||Pain Split|Normal|Status|—|—|20}}
{{Learnlist/prevo5|607|Litwick||608|Lampent||Overheat|Fire|Special|140|90|5|'''}}
{{learnlist/prevof|Chandelure|ghost|fire|5|5}}

====Special moves====

===={{Trading Card Game}}-only moves====

===Side game data===
{{Sidegame|
type=Ghost |
type2=Fire |
ndex=609 |
rumble2=yes|
rumble2attack=5 |
rumble2defense=4 |
rumble2speed=3 |
Pad2=Very sad about parting with a dear friend, he stated to like glittering things to distract himself. He is quite single minded. |
Park2strong=[[File:Oshawott icon.png|link=Oshawott (Pokémon)]] |
Park2weak=[[File:Snivy icon.png|link=Snivy (Pokémon)]][[File:Tepig icon.png|link=Tepig (Pokémon)]] |
}}

===Evolution===
{{evobox
|family=Normal
|sprite1=607
|name1=Litwick
|type1-1=Ghost
|type2-1=Fire
|evotype1=Level
|level1=41
|sprite2=608
|name2=Lampent
|type1-2=Ghost
|type2-2=Fire
|evotype2=Stone
|evostone2=Dusk Stone
|sprite3=609
|name3=Chandelure
|type1-3=Ghost
|type2-3=Fire}}

===Sprites===
{{Sprite|
type=ghost|
type2=fire|
gen=5|
gender=none|
name=Chandelure|
ndex=609|
}}

==Trivia==
* No other Pokémon has the same [[List of Pokémon with unique type combinations|type combination]] as Chandelure and its {{p|Litwick|evolutionary}} {{p|Lampent|relatives}}.
* Chandelure has the highest {{stat|Special Attack}} of all non-[[legendary Pokémon]] and of all {{type|Ghost}} Pokémon.
* Despite hovering, it does not have the ability {{a|Levitate}}.
* Despite its Black [[Pokédex]] entry, it cannot learn {{m|Hypnosis}}.
** Due to this, it is unable to make use of {{m|Dream Eater}} on its own, which it can learn through TM.

===Origin===
Chandelure is a combination of {{wp|Hitodama}} (a blue, black, or purple-fire associated with ghosts and {{wp|yōkai}}, equivalent to the western {{wp|will-o'-the-wisp}}) and a {{wp|chandelier}}.

====Name origin====
Chandelure is most likely a combination of ''chandelier'' and ''lure'' or ''allure''. Chandela is a corruption of chandelier.

==In other languages==
{| align="left" class="roundy" style="border: 3px solid #{{Fire color}}; background: #{{Ghost color}};"
|-
|
{| class="roundy" style="background: #{{Ghost color light}};"
|- align=center
! Language
! Name
! Name Origin
|- style="background:#FFF;"
| [[List of German Pokémon names|German]]
| Skelabra
| From ''{{tt|Skelett|skeleton}}'' and ''candelabra''.
|- style="background:#FFF;"
| [[List of French Pokémon names|French]]
| Lugulabre
| From {{tt|Lueur|low light}} and {{tt|labre|labrum}}
|- style="background:#FFF;"
| [[List of Korean Pokémon names|Korean]]
| 샹델라 ''Syangdella''
|
|- style="background:#FFF;"
| [[List of Chinese Pokémon names|Chinese]] ({{tt|Mandarin|Taiwan and mainland China}})
| 水晶燈火靈 / 水晶灯火灵 ''Shuǐjīngdēnghuǒlíng''
| From {{tt|水晶燈 ''shuǐjīngdēng''|chandelier, crystal lamp}}, {{tt|燈火 ''dēnghuǒ''|lights}}, {{tt|火 ''huǒ''|fire}}, {{tt|靈 ''líng''|spirit}}, and/or {{tt|幽靈 ''yōulíng''|ghost, phantom}}.
|}
|-
|}
 


==External links==
{{PokémonPrevNextFoot | prev=Lampent | next=Axew | prevnum=608 | nextnum=610 | type=Ghost | type2=Fire }}
{{-}}
{{Project Pokédex notice}}

[[de:Skelabra]]
[[es:Chandelure]]
[[fr:Lugulabre]]
[[it:Chandelure]]
[[ja:シャンデラ]]
[[pl:Chandelure]]

Talk:Kyurem (Pokémon)

2012-03-04T17:44:44Z

Mastervictini: /* Cause of forme change */

==Third version==
Before anyone else decides to talk about it, yeah, I'm pretty much gonna guarantee it being the mascot of BW's third version. No further discussion on this. Until we get the announcement and boxart. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 20:28, 21 September 2010 (UTC)
:Unfair. [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=List_of_Pok%C3%A9mon_with_unique_type_combinations&action=historysubmit&diff=1189335&oldid=1189330 I already did that].--[[User:Cold|Cold]] ([[User talk:Cold|talk]]) 20:41, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

What will be the name of the third game?
- Pokémon White Version Reshiram
- Pokémon Black Version Zekrom
- Pokémon Grey Version Kyurem

It could be, don't ya think?Sakas 19:11, 7 October 2010 (UTC)SakasFixe
:Didn't TTE just say "no further discussion on this"? That's speculation and belongs on the forums, not here. --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] 19:14, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

You are bad for people. You want something related to "discussion" you'll have it: Where is the Official artwork of Ken Sugimori? Happy? {{unsigned|SakasFixe}}
:There is no Sugimori artwork yet for the non-pre-release Pokemon. But that doesn't belong here on Kyurem's talk. [[User:Umeko|梅子]][[User talk:Umeko|❀]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|✿]] 22:41, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

==Norse==
"It may also be based on the {{wp|Wyvern}} of {{wp|Norse}} mythology, said to wreck havoc in {{wp|Ragnarök}}, the end of the world, should it melt from the ice it was imprisoned in."

That's what I've been told. Anyone able to confirm/dismiss that? {{unsigned|Yurtablemoron}}
:Nope, not true. - [[User:050294|050294]] 14:32, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

That's basically what Reshiram is (minus the ice) [[User:Ataro|Ataro]] 21:51, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

I agree with the norsh myth theory also perhaps it has connections to Fimbulvetr? The harsh winter where men will wage ceaseless war against each other
and brothers will kill each other= the two brothers using Regish and Zec sound plausible? [[User:Frosslass|Frosslass]] 12:47, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

==Overworld Sprite==
I don't think this sentence in the physiology section is necessary: "It should be noted that on its overworld sprite, the left part of its overall bodyparts is somehow broken and smaller than the right part." The smaller part is correct, sure, but it isn't broken--it's just smaller because of the perspective. Same goes for its forward-facing battle sprite. At the very least, "overall bodyparts" should be changed to just "body." [[User:Phantomjunkie|Phantom]]♫[[User talk:Phantomjunkie|Junkie]] 03:32, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

== Feelings? ==

Out of curiosity, how is Kyurem a "Feelings Pokémon"? I think that 境界 ''kyoukai'' (boundary) would make more sense than 胸懐 ''kyoukai'' (heart/feelings). Though, there's the possibility that "Kyoukai" could be from 鏡 ''kyou'' (mirror) and 灰 ''kai'' (gray/grey/ash/griseous). [[User:神奇超龍|神奇超龍]] 08:34, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

:The in-game description, according to Veekun, is きょうかい . Compare it to Reshiram's はくよう (white yang) and Zekrom's こくいん (black yin), and we may find something. [[User:Eriorguez|Eriorguez]] 06:41, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

== Kyurem Origin ==

As Zekrom and Reshiram are both based on types of energy, is it possible that Kyurem is based on {{wp|Cold Fusion}}? --[[User:Podunk|Podunk]] 07:06, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
:Sigh... Cold Fusion has nothing to do with ice. It's a theoretical variation on a typical fusion reaction which can be done at or near ROOM TEMPERATURE. I removed this origin already, but it keeps getting added. --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] 10:52, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Kyurem's page says that it '''is''' an extraterrestrial Pokemon. But it isn't expressly stated that he arrived on that meteor- it's only a legend, same as Clefairy. Neither is there any mention of Kyurem's name in the game when discussing it. Shouldn't it say "'''may be''' an extraterrestrial Pokemon", or something similar? [[User:Soma K.|Soma K.]] 21:22, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

== Kyurem's Tail Resembles..... ==
- Reshiram's Tail resembles a Jet Engine
- Zekrom's Tail resembles an Electric Generator

But we still don't know what Kyurem's tail looks like. Any ideas?[[User:Duo2nd|Duo2nd]] 02:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:A Plug! look at how it's shaped and then look at the lightbulb things on it's wings [[User:Ataro|Ataro]] 02:56, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::Doesn't looks like one to me. :/ [[User:Duo2nd|Duo2nd]] 08:44, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Looks like a plug to me - it's got [http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/2/22/Spr_b_g5_646.png three] prongs, like [http://www.advin.com/plug-USA-W512.JPG this]. --[[User:Poppy Appletree|Poppy]] [[User talk:Poppy Appletree|:3]] 15:52, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::It is not quite like that image, it does have three prongs though it looks more like one of those plastic pizza tables they use to hold the box up then a plug... [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 19:45, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Could be a bunch of icicles (imagine the tail pointing down to the ground) --[[User:Shadowater|Shadowater]] 01:15, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
::::: A plug: http://www.reuk.co.uk/Dual-Powered-Lighting-Circuit.htm Scroll down to the first image. [[User:Don't Hug Lucario!|Don't Hug Lucario!]] 16:30, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
Looks like a glacure.[[User:WWWAJG|WWWAJG]] 22:09, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

== Pokemon.jp Pokedex pic ==

I'm thinking it would be a good replacement for the current infobox picture, which not only is tiny, but comes up all pixellated in its file description area. I can't extract from a Flash-based site or upload here, but I know there's people who can. [[User:Silverlucario|Frezgle]] 19:21, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

== National PokeDex ==

Other than the event legendarie, Kyurem (And Landorus), according the the guide books, are NOT required to complete the National PokeDex. Why it is like this is what I d0on't lnow, since Kyurem can be caught in any copy of B/W, and Landorus not being required is also unusual because Tornadus and Thundurus are, which both ultimately unlock Landorus anyways. Would it be worth trivia for both of them? [[User:Shiramu Kuromu|Shiramu Kuromu]] 14:50, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

== shiny sprite ==

Kyurem is grey and it's shiny sprite is -black and white- with the eye color being a combined version of Zekrom's red eyes and Reshiram's blue eyes, notable? [[User:Nickvang|Nickvang]] 19:11, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
: I don't think, but wait for more opinions --[[User:SamuStar|SamuStar]] 21:05, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

== Um...... ==

It is currently the final officially-revealed Pokémon in National Pokédex order.
Huh? --[[User:K4kirin|K4kirin]] 08:32, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
:Kyurem is the last Pokémon in the Pokédex. [[Typhlosion (Pokémon)|★]][[User:Jo The Marten|Jo the Marten]][[Flygon (Pokémon)|★]] [[User_Talk:Jo The Marten|ಠ_ಠ]][[Cilan (anime)|♥]] 08:40, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
::Keldeo, Meloettea and Genesect haven't been officially revealed to the public yet.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F''']][[Reshiram (Pokémon)|orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F''']][[Zekrom (Pokémon)|ire]] 08:41, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

== New Movie? ==

Oha Suta has revealed a teaser trailer for a movie, it appears that Kyurem and the Musketeer Quartet will be in it.
[http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=vHEgvv8LEjE Pokémon Movie 15-Kyurem VS. The Sacred Swordsman Teaser Trailer]
--[[User:Flying Bidoof|Flying Bidoof]] 12:37, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
*We know, its in Kyurem's 'In the anime' section. and the page is already being made: [[M15]] {{unsigned|AquaMaster}}

== Ideals, truth and dreams. ==

Drayden told me the third one (dreams) is also in this row (so it would be Kyurem's one). Adding? [[User:Nickvang|Nickvang]] 16:24, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
:Still speculation at the moment. Better to leave it out until is is officially associated with dreams. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 16:40, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

== Imprison Level ==

Do you consider it noteworthy that the levels at which Kyurem (and by extension Reshiram and Zekrom) attempt(s) to learn Imprison are 8 and 64? 8² = 64 and so the root of 64 is eight. Since the games draw some inspiration from mathematics, as seen in N, N's Themes and the boats in Castelia City this might be programmed in intentionally.

[[User:Renoir|Renoir]] 23:19, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

== New Forms ==

Looks like Kyurem gets two new forms: [[Image:M15_poster.png|thumb]] [[User:1rkhachatryan|RBK]] 23:21, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
:It's been confirmed that the formes are Black Kyurem and White Kyurem. Types are waiting for confirmation, although I've heard a couple websites saying that Black Kyurem is Dragon/Electric and White Kyurem is Dragon/Fire. --'''[[User:Trickyb|Tricky]][[User Talk:Trickyb|B]] 01:14, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
::The usual Bulbapedia protocol is to wait for official sources before we add new info. So until that happens we're gonna wait it out. [[User:Pokemaster97|--Pokemaster]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|97]] 01:17, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
:::Um isn't Pokemon Smash an official source?? Cuz the forms were revealed on there.[[User:1rkhachatryan|RBK]] 01:19, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
::::I've read that they will be Ice/Electric and Ice/Fire respectively, but that makes more sense. We must all wait and see...--[[User:Rsrdaman|'''×Rsr''']][[User_Talk:Rsrdaman|'''daman×''']] 01:20, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
:::::I was referring to the types not the forms themselves. [[User:Pokemaster97|--Pokemaster]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|97]] 01:21, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
::::::They '''are''' going to be Ice/Electric and Ice/Fire, i've just realized. Firstly, look at the new logos, they have Ice crytals with the second types color on them. Also look at the [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/File:Kyurem_forms.png full picture] there is ice encroaching all over the old B/W background. Like they say, a picture is worth a thousand words.--[[User:Rsrdaman|'''×Rsr''']][[User_Talk:Rsrdaman|'''daman×''']] 03:29, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
:::::::Guys... remember this page is to discuss how to improve the article, not to speculate or add your own personal thoughts on what types Kyurem's forms might be. Please take other such discussions to the forums. Thanks. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 03:37, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
:I don't think it's appropriate to put the artwork for the new forms in the infobox for Kyurem until we know more about them. [[User:ThomasWinwood|ThomasWinwood]] 09:41, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
:: ^this. Masuda confirmed that Black Kyurem and White Kyurem are seperate Pokémon so I'm perplexed as to why Black Kyurem is even the infobox image on the Kyurem page. [[User:Ewkay|Ewkay]] 11:00, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
:::He didn't really confirm anything but their names, the way he structured the sentence however could be taken either way. I think we should leave Black Kyurem and White Kyurem on the Kyurem page unless they come out and explicitly state that they are completely new Pokemon with new Pokedex numbers.[[User:ArchedThunder|ArchedThunder]] 14:38, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
::::He said specifically though that they '''are''' the names of the new Pokémon. But to reply to {{u|Kenji-girl}}, I'm mostly trying to apply logic to it. Im not giving random-ass guesses, but giving logical, evidence based ones, to better the page.--[[User:Rsrdaman|'''×Rsr''']][[User_Talk:Rsrdaman|'''daman×''']] 15:08, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
:::::A guess is still a guess whether logical or not and it should be reserved for the forums. What we do is wait for them to tell us what they are. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 19:43, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

== Trivia ==
"There is placeholder data for an alternate form of Kyurem in Pokémon Black and White. There was the same type of placeholder data for Rotom, Giratina, and Shaymin in Diamond and Pearl." - Could an admin expand on this now, explaining how its two new forms have been revealed? ☆[[User:Solar Dragon|The]] [[User talk:Solar Dragon|Solar]] [[Special:Contributions/Solar Dragon|Dragon]]☆ 09:52, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

I also think it would be worth noting that Kyurem is the first Pokemon to be the version mascot of two games in the same generation.[[User:ArchedThunder|ArchedThunder]] 12:46, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
:Oh and of course editing the top of the page to say he is the version mascot of both Black 2 and White 2.[[User:ArchedThunder|ArchedThunder]] 13:03, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
::Until new info comes out I don't think that either of those are going to be added for now. [[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen Fennec]] 17:05, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

== Art Descriptions ==

For Kyurem's alternate formes, why does it say "Art by Ken Sugimori from Black 2", etc.? For every other released Pokémon, it says something like "Art by Ken Sugimori from Ruby ''and Sapphire''", even for a version exclusive like Groudon. [[Special:Contributions/Enervation|~]][[User:Enervation|Enervation]] 21:30, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
:Mostly because I was confused by the switch. D: There would be three image switches, and two different captions. I didn't want it to end up with BW art and saying "Art from Black and White 2", and I also didn't want to be redundant and have Black White 2 be listed twice. But I have nothing against someone using both titles for the artworks. [[Typhlosion (Pokémon)|★]][[User:Jo The Marten|Jo the Marten]][[Flygon (Pokémon)|★]] [[User_Talk:Jo The Marten|ಠ_ಠ]][[Cilan (anime)|♥]] 21:34, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

==Placeholder==
In the trivia, what do you mean by "placeholder data for alternative formes"? [[User:RedYoshi|RedYoshi]] 22:15, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

Kyurem had no alternate forms in BW, when a pokemon has no alternate forms they are given a value of Zero in that "section", Kyurem had a Value of one implying that we would see more forms.[[User:ArchedThunder|ArchedThunder]] 22:46, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

== splitting ==

I suggest splitting the article into white kyurem,black kyurem,and kyurem.But not until we know more the first two.--[[User:Supermon|Supermon]] 12:44, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
:I think that's what we plan to do...--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 12:52, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
::They are simply Formes, and we have never given alternate Formes their own articles before. If we do, we will be giving Origin Forme Giratina and Sky Forme Shaymin articles too. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 12:56, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
:::While I agree that simply giving each form maybe a small section on the page, wouldn't Primal Dialga count as an alternate forme of Dialga? [[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen Fennec]] 12:57, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
::::Primal Dialga ultimately counts as a separate ''character'', not a separate form. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * the [[User talk:ArcToraphim|Arc]] [[Special:Contributions/ArcToraphim|Toraph]] 13:05, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
:::::Ah, alright then. [[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen Fennec]] 13:07, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
:::Forms that appear to be the fusion of Kyurem and Zekrom/Reshiram. For all we know, they could be getting treated like entirely new Pokemon instead of forms, with their own Pokedex entries and everything. At this point it is all speculation --[[User:Shadowater|Shadowater]] 18:49, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
:::I agree with you there, Snorlax! If we did give each forme its own page, we'd have to have a page for each of Deoxys' different formes, as well as Rotom, Arceus (though it technically doesn't change formes, just coloring and type), Castform, and all of the other Pokémon that have the ability to change forme, which would seriously be going '''WAY''' overboard! [[User:Pikachu9000|Pikachu]][[User talk:Pikachu9000|9000]] 20:49, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

I wasn't thinking about that when I suggested it.I guess it is a bad idea.Except we still don't know if they actually are forms.--[[User:Supermon|Supermon]] 22:39, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
: I know Serebii is a seconhand source, and wouldn't dream of asking you to post this on the article without anything better, but [http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/661226-pokemon-black-version-2/62110120/692585765 he says they are just alternate formes]. --[[User:HeroicJay|HeroicJay]] 23:25, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
:They have never added a Pokemon midway through a generation. If this was Gen VI they would be advertising that.[[User:ArchedThunder|ArchedThunder]] 15:27, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

What about arceus?--[[User:Supermon|Supermon]] 23:01, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
:Arceus was in the code for Diamond and Pearl. It was not added mid-way through the generation. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] [[User talk:Werdnae|(talk)]] 03:33, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

== Kyurem ==

I thought they were not forms of Kyurems? They said it was two new/different Pokemon? Also, should you use this picture on the article, as this is what it shows in the anime? like you do with the Castform, and Rotom?
http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/c/c3/646Kyurem.png? [[User:AquaMaster|AquaMaster]] 19:52, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
:Masuda tweeted and stated that they were called 'Black Kyurem' and 'White Kyurem'. I never heard anyone mention that they were different Pokemon. [[User:Funktastic~!|It's Funktastic~!]] 20:10, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
::We hardly know ''anything'' for sure. We know for sure they're Kyurem, and that's it. They've mentioned "separate Pokémon" but if I recall, they said the same thing about almost every form (Rotom for example). So until we know more than just what they look like, and the names of the games, let's not jump any guns, sharks, etc.. [[Typhlosion (Pokémon)|★]][[User:Jo The Marten|Jo the Marten]][[Flygon (Pokémon)|★]] [[User_Talk:Jo The Marten|ಠ_ಠ]][[Cilan (anime)|♥]] 20:19, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
*we should use http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/c/c3/646Kyurem.png this as the main picture though, cause this is the form which is in the anime etc, can it be changed?[[User:AquaMaster|AquaMaster]] 20:31, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
:::For the record, we are not simply relying on Masuda's tweets. Other things like the press releases for the US and Europe and the official teaser trailer have also called them Black Kyurem and White Kyurem. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 11:10, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

*I think from the trailer, there was a legend which Kyurem was lent the Power from Zekrom and Reshiram under circumstances, from what I can understand, in which the Swordsman did not agree. [[User:AquaMaster|AquaMaster]] 14:43, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

== Anime images ==

There's now anime pics for [[:File:White Kyurem anime.png|White]] and [[:File:Black Kyurem anime.png|Black]] Kyurem. '''X'''[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']]'''X''' 20:17, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

==Cause of forme change==
http://www.officialnintendomagazine.co.uk/36013/pokemon-black-and-white-2-kyurems-formes-explained/
This says that Kyurem absorbs Reshiram's/Zekrom's gene to become his respective formes. M-''[[User:Meekio|eeeeeek]]''-[[User
talk:Meekio|io]] 09:39, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

this is only in the movie, I think
--[[User:Mastervictini|Mastervictini]] 17:44, 4 March 2012 (UTC)[[User:Mastervictini|Mastervictini]] 17:42, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

Talk:Kyurem (Pokémon)

2012-03-04T17:42:53Z

Mastervictini: /* Cause of forme change */

==Third version==
Before anyone else decides to talk about it, yeah, I'm pretty much gonna guarantee it being the mascot of BW's third version. No further discussion on this. Until we get the announcement and boxart. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 20:28, 21 September 2010 (UTC)
:Unfair. [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=List_of_Pok%C3%A9mon_with_unique_type_combinations&action=historysubmit&diff=1189335&oldid=1189330 I already did that].--[[User:Cold|Cold]] ([[User talk:Cold|talk]]) 20:41, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

What will be the name of the third game?
- Pokémon White Version Reshiram
- Pokémon Black Version Zekrom
- Pokémon Grey Version Kyurem

It could be, don't ya think?Sakas 19:11, 7 October 2010 (UTC)SakasFixe
:Didn't TTE just say "no further discussion on this"? That's speculation and belongs on the forums, not here. --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] 19:14, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

You are bad for people. You want something related to "discussion" you'll have it: Where is the Official artwork of Ken Sugimori? Happy? {{unsigned|SakasFixe}}
:There is no Sugimori artwork yet for the non-pre-release Pokemon. But that doesn't belong here on Kyurem's talk. [[User:Umeko|梅子]][[User talk:Umeko|❀]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|✿]] 22:41, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

==Norse==
"It may also be based on the {{wp|Wyvern}} of {{wp|Norse}} mythology, said to wreck havoc in {{wp|Ragnarök}}, the end of the world, should it melt from the ice it was imprisoned in."

That's what I've been told. Anyone able to confirm/dismiss that? {{unsigned|Yurtablemoron}}
:Nope, not true. - [[User:050294|050294]] 14:32, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

That's basically what Reshiram is (minus the ice) [[User:Ataro|Ataro]] 21:51, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

I agree with the norsh myth theory also perhaps it has connections to Fimbulvetr? The harsh winter where men will wage ceaseless war against each other
and brothers will kill each other= the two brothers using Regish and Zec sound plausible? [[User:Frosslass|Frosslass]] 12:47, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

==Overworld Sprite==
I don't think this sentence in the physiology section is necessary: "It should be noted that on its overworld sprite, the left part of its overall bodyparts is somehow broken and smaller than the right part." The smaller part is correct, sure, but it isn't broken--it's just smaller because of the perspective. Same goes for its forward-facing battle sprite. At the very least, "overall bodyparts" should be changed to just "body." [[User:Phantomjunkie|Phantom]]♫[[User talk:Phantomjunkie|Junkie]] 03:32, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

== Feelings? ==

Out of curiosity, how is Kyurem a "Feelings Pokémon"? I think that 境界 ''kyoukai'' (boundary) would make more sense than 胸懐 ''kyoukai'' (heart/feelings). Though, there's the possibility that "Kyoukai" could be from 鏡 ''kyou'' (mirror) and 灰 ''kai'' (gray/grey/ash/griseous). [[User:神奇超龍|神奇超龍]] 08:34, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

:The in-game description, according to Veekun, is きょうかい . Compare it to Reshiram's はくよう (white yang) and Zekrom's こくいん (black yin), and we may find something. [[User:Eriorguez|Eriorguez]] 06:41, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

== Kyurem Origin ==

As Zekrom and Reshiram are both based on types of energy, is it possible that Kyurem is based on {{wp|Cold Fusion}}? --[[User:Podunk|Podunk]] 07:06, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
:Sigh... Cold Fusion has nothing to do with ice. It's a theoretical variation on a typical fusion reaction which can be done at or near ROOM TEMPERATURE. I removed this origin already, but it keeps getting added. --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] 10:52, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Kyurem's page says that it '''is''' an extraterrestrial Pokemon. But it isn't expressly stated that he arrived on that meteor- it's only a legend, same as Clefairy. Neither is there any mention of Kyurem's name in the game when discussing it. Shouldn't it say "'''may be''' an extraterrestrial Pokemon", or something similar? [[User:Soma K.|Soma K.]] 21:22, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

== Kyurem's Tail Resembles..... ==
- Reshiram's Tail resembles a Jet Engine
- Zekrom's Tail resembles an Electric Generator

But we still don't know what Kyurem's tail looks like. Any ideas?[[User:Duo2nd|Duo2nd]] 02:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:A Plug! look at how it's shaped and then look at the lightbulb things on it's wings [[User:Ataro|Ataro]] 02:56, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::Doesn't looks like one to me. :/ [[User:Duo2nd|Duo2nd]] 08:44, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Looks like a plug to me - it's got [http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/2/22/Spr_b_g5_646.png three] prongs, like [http://www.advin.com/plug-USA-W512.JPG this]. --[[User:Poppy Appletree|Poppy]] [[User talk:Poppy Appletree|:3]] 15:52, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::It is not quite like that image, it does have three prongs though it looks more like one of those plastic pizza tables they use to hold the box up then a plug... [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 19:45, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Could be a bunch of icicles (imagine the tail pointing down to the ground) --[[User:Shadowater|Shadowater]] 01:15, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
::::: A plug: http://www.reuk.co.uk/Dual-Powered-Lighting-Circuit.htm Scroll down to the first image. [[User:Don't Hug Lucario!|Don't Hug Lucario!]] 16:30, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
Looks like a glacure.[[User:WWWAJG|WWWAJG]] 22:09, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

== Pokemon.jp Pokedex pic ==

I'm thinking it would be a good replacement for the current infobox picture, which not only is tiny, but comes up all pixellated in its file description area. I can't extract from a Flash-based site or upload here, but I know there's people who can. [[User:Silverlucario|Frezgle]] 19:21, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

== National PokeDex ==

Other than the event legendarie, Kyurem (And Landorus), according the the guide books, are NOT required to complete the National PokeDex. Why it is like this is what I d0on't lnow, since Kyurem can be caught in any copy of B/W, and Landorus not being required is also unusual because Tornadus and Thundurus are, which both ultimately unlock Landorus anyways. Would it be worth trivia for both of them? [[User:Shiramu Kuromu|Shiramu Kuromu]] 14:50, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

== shiny sprite ==

Kyurem is grey and it's shiny sprite is -black and white- with the eye color being a combined version of Zekrom's red eyes and Reshiram's blue eyes, notable? [[User:Nickvang|Nickvang]] 19:11, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
: I don't think, but wait for more opinions --[[User:SamuStar|SamuStar]] 21:05, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

== Um...... ==

It is currently the final officially-revealed Pokémon in National Pokédex order.
Huh? --[[User:K4kirin|K4kirin]] 08:32, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
:Kyurem is the last Pokémon in the Pokédex. [[Typhlosion (Pokémon)|★]][[User:Jo The Marten|Jo the Marten]][[Flygon (Pokémon)|★]] [[User_Talk:Jo The Marten|ಠ_ಠ]][[Cilan (anime)|♥]] 08:40, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
::Keldeo, Meloettea and Genesect haven't been officially revealed to the public yet.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F''']][[Reshiram (Pokémon)|orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F''']][[Zekrom (Pokémon)|ire]] 08:41, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

== New Movie? ==

Oha Suta has revealed a teaser trailer for a movie, it appears that Kyurem and the Musketeer Quartet will be in it.
[http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=vHEgvv8LEjE Pokémon Movie 15-Kyurem VS. The Sacred Swordsman Teaser Trailer]
--[[User:Flying Bidoof|Flying Bidoof]] 12:37, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
*We know, its in Kyurem's 'In the anime' section. and the page is already being made: [[M15]] {{unsigned|AquaMaster}}

== Ideals, truth and dreams. ==

Drayden told me the third one (dreams) is also in this row (so it would be Kyurem's one). Adding? [[User:Nickvang|Nickvang]] 16:24, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
:Still speculation at the moment. Better to leave it out until is is officially associated with dreams. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 16:40, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

== Imprison Level ==

Do you consider it noteworthy that the levels at which Kyurem (and by extension Reshiram and Zekrom) attempt(s) to learn Imprison are 8 and 64? 8² = 64 and so the root of 64 is eight. Since the games draw some inspiration from mathematics, as seen in N, N's Themes and the boats in Castelia City this might be programmed in intentionally.

[[User:Renoir|Renoir]] 23:19, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

== New Forms ==

Looks like Kyurem gets two new forms: [[Image:M15_poster.png|thumb]] [[User:1rkhachatryan|RBK]] 23:21, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
:It's been confirmed that the formes are Black Kyurem and White Kyurem. Types are waiting for confirmation, although I've heard a couple websites saying that Black Kyurem is Dragon/Electric and White Kyurem is Dragon/Fire. --'''[[User:Trickyb|Tricky]][[User Talk:Trickyb|B]] 01:14, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
::The usual Bulbapedia protocol is to wait for official sources before we add new info. So until that happens we're gonna wait it out. [[User:Pokemaster97|--Pokemaster]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|97]] 01:17, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
:::Um isn't Pokemon Smash an official source?? Cuz the forms were revealed on there.[[User:1rkhachatryan|RBK]] 01:19, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
::::I've read that they will be Ice/Electric and Ice/Fire respectively, but that makes more sense. We must all wait and see...--[[User:Rsrdaman|'''×Rsr''']][[User_Talk:Rsrdaman|'''daman×''']] 01:20, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
:::::I was referring to the types not the forms themselves. [[User:Pokemaster97|--Pokemaster]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|97]] 01:21, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
::::::They '''are''' going to be Ice/Electric and Ice/Fire, i've just realized. Firstly, look at the new logos, they have Ice crytals with the second types color on them. Also look at the [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/File:Kyurem_forms.png full picture] there is ice encroaching all over the old B/W background. Like they say, a picture is worth a thousand words.--[[User:Rsrdaman|'''×Rsr''']][[User_Talk:Rsrdaman|'''daman×''']] 03:29, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
:::::::Guys... remember this page is to discuss how to improve the article, not to speculate or add your own personal thoughts on what types Kyurem's forms might be. Please take other such discussions to the forums. Thanks. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 03:37, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
:I don't think it's appropriate to put the artwork for the new forms in the infobox for Kyurem until we know more about them. [[User:ThomasWinwood|ThomasWinwood]] 09:41, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
:: ^this. Masuda confirmed that Black Kyurem and White Kyurem are seperate Pokémon so I'm perplexed as to why Black Kyurem is even the infobox image on the Kyurem page. [[User:Ewkay|Ewkay]] 11:00, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
:::He didn't really confirm anything but their names, the way he structured the sentence however could be taken either way. I think we should leave Black Kyurem and White Kyurem on the Kyurem page unless they come out and explicitly state that they are completely new Pokemon with new Pokedex numbers.[[User:ArchedThunder|ArchedThunder]] 14:38, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
::::He said specifically though that they '''are''' the names of the new Pokémon. But to reply to {{u|Kenji-girl}}, I'm mostly trying to apply logic to it. Im not giving random-ass guesses, but giving logical, evidence based ones, to better the page.--[[User:Rsrdaman|'''×Rsr''']][[User_Talk:Rsrdaman|'''daman×''']] 15:08, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
:::::A guess is still a guess whether logical or not and it should be reserved for the forums. What we do is wait for them to tell us what they are. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 19:43, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

== Trivia ==
"There is placeholder data for an alternate form of Kyurem in Pokémon Black and White. There was the same type of placeholder data for Rotom, Giratina, and Shaymin in Diamond and Pearl." - Could an admin expand on this now, explaining how its two new forms have been revealed? ☆[[User:Solar Dragon|The]] [[User talk:Solar Dragon|Solar]] [[Special:Contributions/Solar Dragon|Dragon]]☆ 09:52, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

I also think it would be worth noting that Kyurem is the first Pokemon to be the version mascot of two games in the same generation.[[User:ArchedThunder|ArchedThunder]] 12:46, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
:Oh and of course editing the top of the page to say he is the version mascot of both Black 2 and White 2.[[User:ArchedThunder|ArchedThunder]] 13:03, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
::Until new info comes out I don't think that either of those are going to be added for now. [[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen Fennec]] 17:05, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

== Art Descriptions ==

For Kyurem's alternate formes, why does it say "Art by Ken Sugimori from Black 2", etc.? For every other released Pokémon, it says something like "Art by Ken Sugimori from Ruby ''and Sapphire''", even for a version exclusive like Groudon. [[Special:Contributions/Enervation|~]][[User:Enervation|Enervation]] 21:30, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
:Mostly because I was confused by the switch. D: There would be three image switches, and two different captions. I didn't want it to end up with BW art and saying "Art from Black and White 2", and I also didn't want to be redundant and have Black White 2 be listed twice. But I have nothing against someone using both titles for the artworks. [[Typhlosion (Pokémon)|★]][[User:Jo The Marten|Jo the Marten]][[Flygon (Pokémon)|★]] [[User_Talk:Jo The Marten|ಠ_ಠ]][[Cilan (anime)|♥]] 21:34, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

==Placeholder==
In the trivia, what do you mean by "placeholder data for alternative formes"? [[User:RedYoshi|RedYoshi]] 22:15, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

Kyurem had no alternate forms in BW, when a pokemon has no alternate forms they are given a value of Zero in that "section", Kyurem had a Value of one implying that we would see more forms.[[User:ArchedThunder|ArchedThunder]] 22:46, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

== splitting ==

I suggest splitting the article into white kyurem,black kyurem,and kyurem.But not until we know more the first two.--[[User:Supermon|Supermon]] 12:44, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
:I think that's what we plan to do...--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 12:52, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
::They are simply Formes, and we have never given alternate Formes their own articles before. If we do, we will be giving Origin Forme Giratina and Sky Forme Shaymin articles too. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 12:56, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
:::While I agree that simply giving each form maybe a small section on the page, wouldn't Primal Dialga count as an alternate forme of Dialga? [[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen Fennec]] 12:57, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
::::Primal Dialga ultimately counts as a separate ''character'', not a separate form. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * the [[User talk:ArcToraphim|Arc]] [[Special:Contributions/ArcToraphim|Toraph]] 13:05, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
:::::Ah, alright then. [[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen Fennec]] 13:07, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
:::Forms that appear to be the fusion of Kyurem and Zekrom/Reshiram. For all we know, they could be getting treated like entirely new Pokemon instead of forms, with their own Pokedex entries and everything. At this point it is all speculation --[[User:Shadowater|Shadowater]] 18:49, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
:::I agree with you there, Snorlax! If we did give each forme its own page, we'd have to have a page for each of Deoxys' different formes, as well as Rotom, Arceus (though it technically doesn't change formes, just coloring and type), Castform, and all of the other Pokémon that have the ability to change forme, which would seriously be going '''WAY''' overboard! [[User:Pikachu9000|Pikachu]][[User talk:Pikachu9000|9000]] 20:49, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

I wasn't thinking about that when I suggested it.I guess it is a bad idea.Except we still don't know if they actually are forms.--[[User:Supermon|Supermon]] 22:39, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
: I know Serebii is a seconhand source, and wouldn't dream of asking you to post this on the article without anything better, but [http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/661226-pokemon-black-version-2/62110120/692585765 he says they are just alternate formes]. --[[User:HeroicJay|HeroicJay]] 23:25, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
:They have never added a Pokemon midway through a generation. If this was Gen VI they would be advertising that.[[User:ArchedThunder|ArchedThunder]] 15:27, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

What about arceus?--[[User:Supermon|Supermon]] 23:01, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
:Arceus was in the code for Diamond and Pearl. It was not added mid-way through the generation. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] [[User talk:Werdnae|(talk)]] 03:33, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

== Kyurem ==

I thought they were not forms of Kyurems? They said it was two new/different Pokemon? Also, should you use this picture on the article, as this is what it shows in the anime? like you do with the Castform, and Rotom?
http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/c/c3/646Kyurem.png? [[User:AquaMaster|AquaMaster]] 19:52, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
:Masuda tweeted and stated that they were called 'Black Kyurem' and 'White Kyurem'. I never heard anyone mention that they were different Pokemon. [[User:Funktastic~!|It's Funktastic~!]] 20:10, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
::We hardly know ''anything'' for sure. We know for sure they're Kyurem, and that's it. They've mentioned "separate Pokémon" but if I recall, they said the same thing about almost every form (Rotom for example). So until we know more than just what they look like, and the names of the games, let's not jump any guns, sharks, etc.. [[Typhlosion (Pokémon)|★]][[User:Jo The Marten|Jo the Marten]][[Flygon (Pokémon)|★]] [[User_Talk:Jo The Marten|ಠ_ಠ]][[Cilan (anime)|♥]] 20:19, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
*we should use http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/c/c3/646Kyurem.png this as the main picture though, cause this is the form which is in the anime etc, can it be changed?[[User:AquaMaster|AquaMaster]] 20:31, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
:::For the record, we are not simply relying on Masuda's tweets. Other things like the press releases for the US and Europe and the official teaser trailer have also called them Black Kyurem and White Kyurem. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 11:10, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

*I think from the trailer, there was a legend which Kyurem was lent the Power from Zekrom and Reshiram under circumstances, from what I can understand, in which the Swordsman did not agree. [[User:AquaMaster|AquaMaster]] 14:43, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

== Anime images ==

There's now anime pics for [[:File:White Kyurem anime.png|White]] and [[:File:Black Kyurem anime.png|Black]] Kyurem. '''X'''[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']]'''X''' 20:17, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

==Cause of forme change==
http://www.officialnintendomagazine.co.uk/36013/pokemon-black-and-white-2-kyurems-formes-explained/
This says that Kyurem absorbs Reshiram's/Zekrom's gene to become his respective formes. M-''[[User:Meekio|eeeeeek]]''-[[User
talk:Meekio|io]] 09:39, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

this is only in the movie, I think
[[User:Mastervictini|Mastervictini]] 17:42, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

Talk:Kyurem (Pokémon)

2012-03-04T17:42:07Z

Mastervictini: /* Cause of forme change */

==Third version==
Before anyone else decides to talk about it, yeah, I'm pretty much gonna guarantee it being the mascot of BW's third version. No further discussion on this. Until we get the announcement and boxart. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 20:28, 21 September 2010 (UTC)
:Unfair. [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=List_of_Pok%C3%A9mon_with_unique_type_combinations&action=historysubmit&diff=1189335&oldid=1189330 I already did that].--[[User:Cold|Cold]] ([[User talk:Cold|talk]]) 20:41, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

What will be the name of the third game?
- Pokémon White Version Reshiram
- Pokémon Black Version Zekrom
- Pokémon Grey Version Kyurem

It could be, don't ya think?Sakas 19:11, 7 October 2010 (UTC)SakasFixe
:Didn't TTE just say "no further discussion on this"? That's speculation and belongs on the forums, not here. --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] 19:14, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

You are bad for people. You want something related to "discussion" you'll have it: Where is the Official artwork of Ken Sugimori? Happy? {{unsigned|SakasFixe}}
:There is no Sugimori artwork yet for the non-pre-release Pokemon. But that doesn't belong here on Kyurem's talk. [[User:Umeko|梅子]][[User talk:Umeko|❀]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|✿]] 22:41, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

==Norse==
"It may also be based on the {{wp|Wyvern}} of {{wp|Norse}} mythology, said to wreck havoc in {{wp|Ragnarök}}, the end of the world, should it melt from the ice it was imprisoned in."

That's what I've been told. Anyone able to confirm/dismiss that? {{unsigned|Yurtablemoron}}
:Nope, not true. - [[User:050294|050294]] 14:32, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

That's basically what Reshiram is (minus the ice) [[User:Ataro|Ataro]] 21:51, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

I agree with the norsh myth theory also perhaps it has connections to Fimbulvetr? The harsh winter where men will wage ceaseless war against each other
and brothers will kill each other= the two brothers using Regish and Zec sound plausible? [[User:Frosslass|Frosslass]] 12:47, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

==Overworld Sprite==
I don't think this sentence in the physiology section is necessary: "It should be noted that on its overworld sprite, the left part of its overall bodyparts is somehow broken and smaller than the right part." The smaller part is correct, sure, but it isn't broken--it's just smaller because of the perspective. Same goes for its forward-facing battle sprite. At the very least, "overall bodyparts" should be changed to just "body." [[User:Phantomjunkie|Phantom]]♫[[User talk:Phantomjunkie|Junkie]] 03:32, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

== Feelings? ==

Out of curiosity, how is Kyurem a "Feelings Pokémon"? I think that 境界 ''kyoukai'' (boundary) would make more sense than 胸懐 ''kyoukai'' (heart/feelings). Though, there's the possibility that "Kyoukai" could be from 鏡 ''kyou'' (mirror) and 灰 ''kai'' (gray/grey/ash/griseous). [[User:神奇超龍|神奇超龍]] 08:34, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

:The in-game description, according to Veekun, is きょうかい . Compare it to Reshiram's はくよう (white yang) and Zekrom's こくいん (black yin), and we may find something. [[User:Eriorguez|Eriorguez]] 06:41, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

== Kyurem Origin ==

As Zekrom and Reshiram are both based on types of energy, is it possible that Kyurem is based on {{wp|Cold Fusion}}? --[[User:Podunk|Podunk]] 07:06, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
:Sigh... Cold Fusion has nothing to do with ice. It's a theoretical variation on a typical fusion reaction which can be done at or near ROOM TEMPERATURE. I removed this origin already, but it keeps getting added. --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] 10:52, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Kyurem's page says that it '''is''' an extraterrestrial Pokemon. But it isn't expressly stated that he arrived on that meteor- it's only a legend, same as Clefairy. Neither is there any mention of Kyurem's name in the game when discussing it. Shouldn't it say "'''may be''' an extraterrestrial Pokemon", or something similar? [[User:Soma K.|Soma K.]] 21:22, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

== Kyurem's Tail Resembles..... ==
- Reshiram's Tail resembles a Jet Engine
- Zekrom's Tail resembles an Electric Generator

But we still don't know what Kyurem's tail looks like. Any ideas?[[User:Duo2nd|Duo2nd]] 02:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:A Plug! look at how it's shaped and then look at the lightbulb things on it's wings [[User:Ataro|Ataro]] 02:56, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::Doesn't looks like one to me. :/ [[User:Duo2nd|Duo2nd]] 08:44, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Looks like a plug to me - it's got [http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/2/22/Spr_b_g5_646.png three] prongs, like [http://www.advin.com/plug-USA-W512.JPG this]. --[[User:Poppy Appletree|Poppy]] [[User talk:Poppy Appletree|:3]] 15:52, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::It is not quite like that image, it does have three prongs though it looks more like one of those plastic pizza tables they use to hold the box up then a plug... [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 19:45, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Could be a bunch of icicles (imagine the tail pointing down to the ground) --[[User:Shadowater|Shadowater]] 01:15, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
::::: A plug: http://www.reuk.co.uk/Dual-Powered-Lighting-Circuit.htm Scroll down to the first image. [[User:Don't Hug Lucario!|Don't Hug Lucario!]] 16:30, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
Looks like a glacure.[[User:WWWAJG|WWWAJG]] 22:09, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

== Pokemon.jp Pokedex pic ==

I'm thinking it would be a good replacement for the current infobox picture, which not only is tiny, but comes up all pixellated in its file description area. I can't extract from a Flash-based site or upload here, but I know there's people who can. [[User:Silverlucario|Frezgle]] 19:21, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

== National PokeDex ==

Other than the event legendarie, Kyurem (And Landorus), according the the guide books, are NOT required to complete the National PokeDex. Why it is like this is what I d0on't lnow, since Kyurem can be caught in any copy of B/W, and Landorus not being required is also unusual because Tornadus and Thundurus are, which both ultimately unlock Landorus anyways. Would it be worth trivia for both of them? [[User:Shiramu Kuromu|Shiramu Kuromu]] 14:50, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

== shiny sprite ==

Kyurem is grey and it's shiny sprite is -black and white- with the eye color being a combined version of Zekrom's red eyes and Reshiram's blue eyes, notable? [[User:Nickvang|Nickvang]] 19:11, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
: I don't think, but wait for more opinions --[[User:SamuStar|SamuStar]] 21:05, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

== Um...... ==

It is currently the final officially-revealed Pokémon in National Pokédex order.
Huh? --[[User:K4kirin|K4kirin]] 08:32, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
:Kyurem is the last Pokémon in the Pokédex. [[Typhlosion (Pokémon)|★]][[User:Jo The Marten|Jo the Marten]][[Flygon (Pokémon)|★]] [[User_Talk:Jo The Marten|ಠ_ಠ]][[Cilan (anime)|♥]] 08:40, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
::Keldeo, Meloettea and Genesect haven't been officially revealed to the public yet.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F''']][[Reshiram (Pokémon)|orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F''']][[Zekrom (Pokémon)|ire]] 08:41, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

== New Movie? ==

Oha Suta has revealed a teaser trailer for a movie, it appears that Kyurem and the Musketeer Quartet will be in it.
[http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=vHEgvv8LEjE Pokémon Movie 15-Kyurem VS. The Sacred Swordsman Teaser Trailer]
--[[User:Flying Bidoof|Flying Bidoof]] 12:37, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
*We know, its in Kyurem's 'In the anime' section. and the page is already being made: [[M15]] {{unsigned|AquaMaster}}

== Ideals, truth and dreams. ==

Drayden told me the third one (dreams) is also in this row (so it would be Kyurem's one). Adding? [[User:Nickvang|Nickvang]] 16:24, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
:Still speculation at the moment. Better to leave it out until is is officially associated with dreams. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 16:40, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

== Imprison Level ==

Do you consider it noteworthy that the levels at which Kyurem (and by extension Reshiram and Zekrom) attempt(s) to learn Imprison are 8 and 64? 8² = 64 and so the root of 64 is eight. Since the games draw some inspiration from mathematics, as seen in N, N's Themes and the boats in Castelia City this might be programmed in intentionally.

[[User:Renoir|Renoir]] 23:19, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

== New Forms ==

Looks like Kyurem gets two new forms: [[Image:M15_poster.png|thumb]] [[User:1rkhachatryan|RBK]] 23:21, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
:It's been confirmed that the formes are Black Kyurem and White Kyurem. Types are waiting for confirmation, although I've heard a couple websites saying that Black Kyurem is Dragon/Electric and White Kyurem is Dragon/Fire. --'''[[User:Trickyb|Tricky]][[User Talk:Trickyb|B]] 01:14, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
::The usual Bulbapedia protocol is to wait for official sources before we add new info. So until that happens we're gonna wait it out. [[User:Pokemaster97|--Pokemaster]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|97]] 01:17, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
:::Um isn't Pokemon Smash an official source?? Cuz the forms were revealed on there.[[User:1rkhachatryan|RBK]] 01:19, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
::::I've read that they will be Ice/Electric and Ice/Fire respectively, but that makes more sense. We must all wait and see...--[[User:Rsrdaman|'''×Rsr''']][[User_Talk:Rsrdaman|'''daman×''']] 01:20, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
:::::I was referring to the types not the forms themselves. [[User:Pokemaster97|--Pokemaster]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|97]] 01:21, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
::::::They '''are''' going to be Ice/Electric and Ice/Fire, i've just realized. Firstly, look at the new logos, they have Ice crytals with the second types color on them. Also look at the [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/File:Kyurem_forms.png full picture] there is ice encroaching all over the old B/W background. Like they say, a picture is worth a thousand words.--[[User:Rsrdaman|'''×Rsr''']][[User_Talk:Rsrdaman|'''daman×''']] 03:29, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
:::::::Guys... remember this page is to discuss how to improve the article, not to speculate or add your own personal thoughts on what types Kyurem's forms might be. Please take other such discussions to the forums. Thanks. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 03:37, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
:I don't think it's appropriate to put the artwork for the new forms in the infobox for Kyurem until we know more about them. [[User:ThomasWinwood|ThomasWinwood]] 09:41, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
:: ^this. Masuda confirmed that Black Kyurem and White Kyurem are seperate Pokémon so I'm perplexed as to why Black Kyurem is even the infobox image on the Kyurem page. [[User:Ewkay|Ewkay]] 11:00, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
:::He didn't really confirm anything but their names, the way he structured the sentence however could be taken either way. I think we should leave Black Kyurem and White Kyurem on the Kyurem page unless they come out and explicitly state that they are completely new Pokemon with new Pokedex numbers.[[User:ArchedThunder|ArchedThunder]] 14:38, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
::::He said specifically though that they '''are''' the names of the new Pokémon. But to reply to {{u|Kenji-girl}}, I'm mostly trying to apply logic to it. Im not giving random-ass guesses, but giving logical, evidence based ones, to better the page.--[[User:Rsrdaman|'''×Rsr''']][[User_Talk:Rsrdaman|'''daman×''']] 15:08, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
:::::A guess is still a guess whether logical or not and it should be reserved for the forums. What we do is wait for them to tell us what they are. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 19:43, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

== Trivia ==
"There is placeholder data for an alternate form of Kyurem in Pokémon Black and White. There was the same type of placeholder data for Rotom, Giratina, and Shaymin in Diamond and Pearl." - Could an admin expand on this now, explaining how its two new forms have been revealed? ☆[[User:Solar Dragon|The]] [[User talk:Solar Dragon|Solar]] [[Special:Contributions/Solar Dragon|Dragon]]☆ 09:52, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

I also think it would be worth noting that Kyurem is the first Pokemon to be the version mascot of two games in the same generation.[[User:ArchedThunder|ArchedThunder]] 12:46, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
:Oh and of course editing the top of the page to say he is the version mascot of both Black 2 and White 2.[[User:ArchedThunder|ArchedThunder]] 13:03, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
::Until new info comes out I don't think that either of those are going to be added for now. [[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen Fennec]] 17:05, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

== Art Descriptions ==

For Kyurem's alternate formes, why does it say "Art by Ken Sugimori from Black 2", etc.? For every other released Pokémon, it says something like "Art by Ken Sugimori from Ruby ''and Sapphire''", even for a version exclusive like Groudon. [[Special:Contributions/Enervation|~]][[User:Enervation|Enervation]] 21:30, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
:Mostly because I was confused by the switch. D: There would be three image switches, and two different captions. I didn't want it to end up with BW art and saying "Art from Black and White 2", and I also didn't want to be redundant and have Black White 2 be listed twice. But I have nothing against someone using both titles for the artworks. [[Typhlosion (Pokémon)|★]][[User:Jo The Marten|Jo the Marten]][[Flygon (Pokémon)|★]] [[User_Talk:Jo The Marten|ಠ_ಠ]][[Cilan (anime)|♥]] 21:34, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

==Placeholder==
In the trivia, what do you mean by "placeholder data for alternative formes"? [[User:RedYoshi|RedYoshi]] 22:15, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

Kyurem had no alternate forms in BW, when a pokemon has no alternate forms they are given a value of Zero in that "section", Kyurem had a Value of one implying that we would see more forms.[[User:ArchedThunder|ArchedThunder]] 22:46, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

== splitting ==

I suggest splitting the article into white kyurem,black kyurem,and kyurem.But not until we know more the first two.--[[User:Supermon|Supermon]] 12:44, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
:I think that's what we plan to do...--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 12:52, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
::They are simply Formes, and we have never given alternate Formes their own articles before. If we do, we will be giving Origin Forme Giratina and Sky Forme Shaymin articles too. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 12:56, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
:::While I agree that simply giving each form maybe a small section on the page, wouldn't Primal Dialga count as an alternate forme of Dialga? [[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen Fennec]] 12:57, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
::::Primal Dialga ultimately counts as a separate ''character'', not a separate form. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * the [[User talk:ArcToraphim|Arc]] [[Special:Contributions/ArcToraphim|Toraph]] 13:05, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
:::::Ah, alright then. [[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen Fennec]] 13:07, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
:::Forms that appear to be the fusion of Kyurem and Zekrom/Reshiram. For all we know, they could be getting treated like entirely new Pokemon instead of forms, with their own Pokedex entries and everything. At this point it is all speculation --[[User:Shadowater|Shadowater]] 18:49, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
:::I agree with you there, Snorlax! If we did give each forme its own page, we'd have to have a page for each of Deoxys' different formes, as well as Rotom, Arceus (though it technically doesn't change formes, just coloring and type), Castform, and all of the other Pokémon that have the ability to change forme, which would seriously be going '''WAY''' overboard! [[User:Pikachu9000|Pikachu]][[User talk:Pikachu9000|9000]] 20:49, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

I wasn't thinking about that when I suggested it.I guess it is a bad idea.Except we still don't know if they actually are forms.--[[User:Supermon|Supermon]] 22:39, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
: I know Serebii is a seconhand source, and wouldn't dream of asking you to post this on the article without anything better, but [http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/661226-pokemon-black-version-2/62110120/692585765 he says they are just alternate formes]. --[[User:HeroicJay|HeroicJay]] 23:25, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
:They have never added a Pokemon midway through a generation. If this was Gen VI they would be advertising that.[[User:ArchedThunder|ArchedThunder]] 15:27, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

What about arceus?--[[User:Supermon|Supermon]] 23:01, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
:Arceus was in the code for Diamond and Pearl. It was not added mid-way through the generation. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] [[User talk:Werdnae|(talk)]] 03:33, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

== Kyurem ==

I thought they were not forms of Kyurems? They said it was two new/different Pokemon? Also, should you use this picture on the article, as this is what it shows in the anime? like you do with the Castform, and Rotom?
http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/c/c3/646Kyurem.png? [[User:AquaMaster|AquaMaster]] 19:52, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
:Masuda tweeted and stated that they were called 'Black Kyurem' and 'White Kyurem'. I never heard anyone mention that they were different Pokemon. [[User:Funktastic~!|It's Funktastic~!]] 20:10, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
::We hardly know ''anything'' for sure. We know for sure they're Kyurem, and that's it. They've mentioned "separate Pokémon" but if I recall, they said the same thing about almost every form (Rotom for example). So until we know more than just what they look like, and the names of the games, let's not jump any guns, sharks, etc.. [[Typhlosion (Pokémon)|★]][[User:Jo The Marten|Jo the Marten]][[Flygon (Pokémon)|★]] [[User_Talk:Jo The Marten|ಠ_ಠ]][[Cilan (anime)|♥]] 20:19, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
*we should use http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/c/c3/646Kyurem.png this as the main picture though, cause this is the form which is in the anime etc, can it be changed?[[User:AquaMaster|AquaMaster]] 20:31, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
:::For the record, we are not simply relying on Masuda's tweets. Other things like the press releases for the US and Europe and the official teaser trailer have also called them Black Kyurem and White Kyurem. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 11:10, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

*I think from the trailer, there was a legend which Kyurem was lent the Power from Zekrom and Reshiram under circumstances, from what I can understand, in which the Swordsman did not agree. [[User:AquaMaster|AquaMaster]] 14:43, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

== Anime images ==

There's now anime pics for [[:File:White Kyurem anime.png|White]] and [[:File:Black Kyurem anime.png|Black]] Kyurem. '''X'''[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']]'''X''' 20:17, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

==Cause of forme change==
http://www.officialnintendomagazine.co.uk/36013/pokemon-black-and-white-2-kyurems-formes-explained/
This says that Kyurem absorbs Reshiram's/Zekrom's gene to become his respective formes. M-''[[User:Meekio|eeeeeek]]''-[[User
talk:Meekio|io]] 09:39, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

this is only in the movie, I think
mastervictini[[User:Mastervictini|Mastervictini]] 17:42, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

Talk:Remake

2012-03-03T20:57:55Z

Mastervictini: /* Deep Sand */

==Third versions==
By the definition of remake in the article, wouldn't the third versions be considered remakes? [[User:Turtwig A|Turtwig's]] [[Turtwig (Pokémon)|A-B-Cs]] ([[User talk:Turtwig A|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|contribs]]) 21:50, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
:^ It's [[User:Turtwig A|Turtwig A]]! [[User talk:Turtwig A|My talk]] or [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|wiki edits]] 00:46, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

==Speculation section==
Do we really need it? It is all speculation, and I could dismiss half of it. Sure, it's tagged as speculation, but it doesn't make it fine to put in the article. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 11:33, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
:Or it can be moved to an article of its own like the GS remake one. There are evidences of it, somewhat like shipping. [[User:Tc26/Anime Predictions|tc]][[User:Tc26|²₆]][[User talk:Tc26|tc]][[User:Tc26/Sandbox|26]] 11:36, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
::I thought that got deleted because we didn't want an article full of just speculation. I think this kind of thing is best suited for the forums. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 12:15, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

== Sinnoh League Ground ==

It is worth mentioning that in Platinum in Sinnoh League building there is a ground with a red outer side, blue inner side and green-like moving lines (which could reference to R/S/E colors) [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] 21:28, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
:I don't think that's notable enough to be mentioned in the article. I'd say it's just pure coincidence. [[User:Han Ji-Wan|Han Ji-Wan]] 00:22, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

== Prefix ==

From what I've noticed, remakes have some sort of prefix at the begining
 '''Heart'''Gold
 '''Soul'''Silver
 '''Fire'''Red
 '''Leaf'''Green
 Should this be noted? [[User:Pgj1997|Pgj1997]] 16:25, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
:It's not really that interesting. :--[[User:SuperAipom7|SuperAipom7]] ''([[User talk:SuperAipom7|Questions?]])'' 16:26, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
::So? {{unsigned|Pgj1997}}

== So-called evidence ==

A lot of the 'evidence' in the Speculation section seems really unneccesary. What does bringing back ocean currents, an area with a sandstorm, or Ash's party in DP189, have anything to do with a possible remake? I think the section needs trimming. [[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']][[Pikachu (Pokémon)|'''⚡''']] 20:41, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
:^ Ocean currents and sandstorms were introduced in Gen III and Ash used some of his Hoenn Pokémon in that episode. That is why they were added. I'm not saying they are the best piece of evidence, just saying why they were added. --[[User:HoennMaster|Hoenn]][[User talk:HoennMaster|Master]] 20:56, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
::I know, but they are not the same as, for example, Johto being coded in as a trade location, or Dawn traveling to Hoenn after SS024, opening the possibility of an anime reappearance for Hoenn. I guess they would have to re-code the ocean currents and the sandstorms back into the game, so thats fine, but as for DP189, thats from the Gen IV series, if Ash were to recall his Hoenn Pokemon in the Best Wishes series it would be notable. And a hiddden note next to it actually states that he only has three AG Pokemon on his team not including Pikachu (Sceptile, Swellow, Torkoal), Pikachu is what makes it "most of his team". Regarding some other points:
* ''The sixth Gym Leader of Unova, [[Skyla]], is a Flying-type specialist and lives near a rainy area, like [[Winona]] from Hoenn and both are the sixth Gym Leader in their respective regions.''
::Like Winona and Skyla, Pryce, Candice and Brycen are Ice-type gym leaders #7, but it doesnt mean that HeartGold/SoulSilver and Diamond/Pearl will get remakes.
* ''A fossil depicting an {{p|Armaldo}} in the [[Nacrene City]] museum.''
::Dragonite has a far more notable appearance, but it doesnt mean that they will remake FireRed/LeafGreen. And Armaldo is not unobtainable in BW.
* ''A {{tc|Backpacker}} in [[Desert Resort]] tells the player that he comes from Hoenn, and that he doesn't need the [[Go-Goggles]] here unlike in Hoenn.''
* ''In [[Undella Town]] during Summer, a boy tells the player that he and his family comes from Hoenn and visit Undella Town every Summer. A girl also mentions [[Steven Stone]]. ''
:: Random characters may mention Hoenn, but they also mention other regions.
* ''No characters introduced in Generation III are reused in Black and White, unlike other generations which saw characters repeated in these games. [[Cynthia]], [[Looker]], [[Caitlin]], and a former {{tc|Team Rocket Grunt}} were introduced before they appeared in Black and White.''
::This is actually evidence against a remake, Jasmine appeared in DP, and her games got a remake.
* ''The introduction of {{p|Maractus|another}} {{p|Cacnea|cactus}}-{{p|Cacturne|based}} Pokémon.''
:It also introduced another {{p|Bouffalant|bull}}-{{p|Tauros|based}} {{p|Miltank|Pokémon}}, {{p|Drilbur|mole}}-{{p|Diglett|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Baoppu|fire}} {{p|Hihidaruma|ape}}-{{p|Chimchar|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Munna|baku}}-{{p|Drowzee|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Zebraika|horse}}-{{p|Ponyta|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Koromori|bat}}-{{p|Zubat|based}} {{p|Gliscor|Pokémon}}, {{p|Dokkora|Machop}}-{{p|Machop|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Tympole|tadpole}}-{{p|Poliwag|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Nageki|Hit}}{{p|Dageki|mon}}-{{p|Hitmonlee|based}} {{p|Hitmonchan|Pokémon}}, {{p|Cottonee|cotton plant}}-{{p|Hoppip|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Lilligant|feminine, rafflesia}}-{{p|Bellossom|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Archen|fossil prehistoric bird}}-{{p|Aerodactyl|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Zoroark|kitsune}}-{{p|Ninetales|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Foongus|fungi}}-{{p|Shuckle|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Frillish|Jellyfish}}-{{p|Tentacool|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Galvantula|spider}}-{{p|Ariados|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Kumasyun|bear}}-{{p|Teddiursa|based}} Pokémon.
:[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']][[Pikachu (Pokémon)|'''⚡''']] 23:06, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

I trimmed down the article and removed many unnecessary facts. Some of the facts that you removed were worth keeping. You don't hear anyone else mentioning [[Champion]] [[Lance]] of the [[Kanto]] and [[Johto]] regions, do you? And having Dive return as a [[HM]], a large desert, The Riches Family (which is battled in the same way as Winstrates), ocean currents, language on walls (which wasn't present anywhere in [[Sinnoh]]), etc. is all there so that the programmers won't have to make much changes to the engine of Black and White for the remakes of Ruby and Sapphire. The same thing happened in [[Generation IV]]. [[HeartGold and SoulSilver]] were modified heavily off of [[Pokémon Platinum]]'s game engine and there was a good amount of similarities between [[Johto]] and [[Sinnoh]] ([[Jasmine]]'s appearance, [[Gym Leader]] line-up, interaction with trees, etc.). --[[User:Dialgafan1|Dialgafan1]] 00:20, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
:Okay, I have trimmed down it again, and I will list my reasons here. There are just as many Sinnoh Pokémon only available via the Dream World or Poké Transfer as Hoenn ones; therefore, it is meaningless. Nobody mentions Lance, but someone does mention Cynthia; in fact, she appears there. Most likely, nobody mentions Lance because they haven't decided whether he will be Champion at this time. Currents also appeared in FRLG. There is a sandstorm area in Sinnoh too; sure, it is post-Elite Four, but that shouldn't mean anything. You can draw a tonne of parallels between Gym Leaders (7th Gym Ice anyone?), but none of them even come close to hinting a remake. No previous NPCs at all appeared in RS (both Gen I and II NPCs were absent); this is not the case in Black and White, and this is not what happened in DPPt. Yes, because not mentioning Team Aqua and Magma means that they can screw the storyline over and retcon it into another time period over 3 years later (presentably 3 years + the age of TR Grunt's son + 9 months). If they wanted to put Hoenn at the same time as Unova, they would have put Unova in Hoenn's time. Hoenn certainly isn't the only region with a Safari Ball, and they had no issue programming in capture animations for the Apricorn Balls and Sport Ball in HGSS.
:There are a few other things that I still think are non-hints—Go-Goggles mention, The Riches, reference to Hoenn in Undella Town, having two rivals, Armoldo fossil—but I have left them anyway. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 12:05, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

==Should this be added?==

*[[Bianca]] and {{ga|May}}/{{ga|Brendan}} both give out the [[Dowsing MCHN]] and [[HM02]]. Coincidentally, both items are obtained after defeating the second and fifth gyms of the region.

Probably not because it is just coincidental. Just wanted to ask before adding it and getting in trouble. --[[User:Dialgafan1|Dialgafan1]] 17:55, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

== Recent Developments from Junichi Masuda's Twitter Account ==

I'm still learning the ropes here, so I really don't know how to add this new development to the page. This development was covered by Bulbanews, which in turn got its information direct from Masuda's twitter feed. http://bulbanews.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Masuda_replies_to_tweet_regarding_remakes_of_Generation_III_games --[[User:Marilynasol|Marilynasol]] 15:49, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
:Actually, it's already there on the right-hand side of the page. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 00:20, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

== Notable? ==

I noticed that while Pokémon most Pokémon from the original four regions other than Hoenn retain sprites from one of older games (with not so many Pokémon having different sprites, like {{p|Ampharos}}. On other side, some have bigger changes than just pose, like eg. {{p|Phanpy}} or {{p|Donphan}}), many (if not all) of Hoenn Pokémon got their sprites visibly updated in B/W (not just poses but also colors, visible on eg. {{p|Grovyle}}, {{p|Regice}} or {{p|Combusken}}) [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] 19:28, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
:That's likely because the Hoenn Pokémon were the only Pokémon to ''not'' get their sprites updated at all in the 4th gen. Doubt it has anything at all to do with a remake. - [[User:Blazios|Blazios]] [[User Talk:Blazios|talk]] 19:35, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
::Except {{p|Registeel}}. inb4 Nazi Salute. Every other Hoenn mon had one Gen IV sprite, it was the same through DPPtHGSS. Before I got Internet, I though that sprites from R/S are how they should look. Now I know they're not (inb4 Grovyle with {{tt|blue|WTF? At least Treecko and Sceptile have green-a-like leaves, while Grovyle had obvious BLUE leaves}} leaves and Seedot with gray/grey "hat"). [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] 20:19, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
:::Registeel had its sprite edited for European D/P, making it a localisation change to begin with that was eventually universally implemented. It was about as much of an update as Imprison's animation change is (As in not at all). Not that that has anything to do with anything. - [[User:Blazios|Blazios]] [[User Talk:Blazios|talk]] 20:29, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

== Johto? ==

Did May compete contests in Johto? I thought it was in Hoenn. [[User:Nickvang|Nickvang]] 17:28, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
:After the Advanced Generation ended may went on to Johto to continue contests. [[User:Pokemaster97|--Pokemaster]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|97]] 17:34, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
Right? But Johto doesn't even have contests? [[User:Nickvang|Nickvang]] 17:36, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
::It does in the anime, apparently.--[[User:MisterE13|Mister]][[User talk:MisterE13|'''E''']][[Special:Contributions/MisterE13|13]] 17:43, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

== Starters. ==

While Kanto, Johto and Sinnoh have different base stats total for each unevolved starter (apparently 309 for Fire-types, 314 for Water-types and 318 for Grass-types), Hoenn and Unova have all unevolved starters at the same base stat total (310 and 308 respectively). [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] 20:22, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

==Deep Sand==
Black & White has sand tiles (in the Desert Resort and Route 4) where wild Pokémon can be encountered, a mechanic introduced in Gen III but not used in Gen IV. I say this is evidence for Ruby & Sapphire remakes. —'''[[User:Team Magma Zangoose|Team Magma]] [[User talk:Team Magma Zangoose|Zangoose ⚡]]''' 04:57, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
:That's not evidence.. Sorry. [[User:Han Ji-Wan|Han Ji-Wan]] 07:04, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

still a bit suspicous to me but yeah, to me probably a coincidence, really significant hints are triple battles or dive hm returning or even dive ball returning to original function. Then again, you could be right considering nintendo is not known to do random stuff [[User:Mastervictini|Mastervictini]] 20:56, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

== suspicous black and white 2 logo? a hint to ruby and sapphire possibly ==

[[User:Mastervictini|Mastervictini]] 21:02, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

I noticed the logo for pokemon black and white looks like it may be hinting to Hoenn,the ice is red and blue for white kyurem and black kyurem but the ice looks more like crystals then ice to me. It is probably just my imagination or a coincidence but the logo looks incredibly suspicous
[[User:Mastervictini|Mastervictini]] 21:02, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

== safari ball throwing animation and contest stats ==

if there were going to be no remakes why have a s-ball throwing animation, they went to the troble of removing hms 7 and 8 which are now blank spaces yet no safari zone is in Unova but they kept the animation which probably means future gen v games based in Hoenn will have a safari zone.
The hidden contest stats are suspicous and the fact that ribbons are programed but usually unobtainable outside of rare events is eyebrowraising
MasterVictini [[User:Mastervictini|Mastervictini]] 21:17, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
:The fact that generation IV key items are also hidden in the game code indicates that the hidden contest stats are likely copied code from generation IV games, rather than a hint of remakes. The same could be used to explain the safari ball throwing animation. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] [[User talk:Werdnae|(talk)]] 22:33, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

== red ,blue and green objects in recent movie 15 teaser trailer hinting somethig ==

I definately saw something looking a bit like 3 gems ruby, sapphire and emarald colored at one point during the video on pokemon smash
I dont have a link but the video is on fib I wonder if this is a hint especially considering the video was offical {{unsigned|Mastervictini}}
:[http://youtu.be/VGsFtHQtRPM This trailer]? I've watched it a few times and I still can't see any such gems. Can you screenshot them from it, if that is the video? --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 07:19, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

it was not in the actual movie it was in that room with those japanese guys on pokemon smash to their left - {{unsigned|Mastervictini}}

==The R/S remakes speculation part...==
Needs to mention some of the theory's criticism, like the Pokémon Gold and Silver remake speculation article did for that theory. - [[User:Ericss|Ericss]] 23:01, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

Talk:Remake

2012-03-03T20:56:59Z

Mastervictini: /* Deep Sand */

==Third versions==
By the definition of remake in the article, wouldn't the third versions be considered remakes? [[User:Turtwig A|Turtwig's]] [[Turtwig (Pokémon)|A-B-Cs]] ([[User talk:Turtwig A|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|contribs]]) 21:50, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
:^ It's [[User:Turtwig A|Turtwig A]]! [[User talk:Turtwig A|My talk]] or [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|wiki edits]] 00:46, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

==Speculation section==
Do we really need it? It is all speculation, and I could dismiss half of it. Sure, it's tagged as speculation, but it doesn't make it fine to put in the article. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 11:33, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
:Or it can be moved to an article of its own like the GS remake one. There are evidences of it, somewhat like shipping. [[User:Tc26/Anime Predictions|tc]][[User:Tc26|²₆]][[User talk:Tc26|tc]][[User:Tc26/Sandbox|26]] 11:36, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
::I thought that got deleted because we didn't want an article full of just speculation. I think this kind of thing is best suited for the forums. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 12:15, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

== Sinnoh League Ground ==

It is worth mentioning that in Platinum in Sinnoh League building there is a ground with a red outer side, blue inner side and green-like moving lines (which could reference to R/S/E colors) [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] 21:28, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
:I don't think that's notable enough to be mentioned in the article. I'd say it's just pure coincidence. [[User:Han Ji-Wan|Han Ji-Wan]] 00:22, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

== Prefix ==

From what I've noticed, remakes have some sort of prefix at the begining
 '''Heart'''Gold
 '''Soul'''Silver
 '''Fire'''Red
 '''Leaf'''Green
 Should this be noted? [[User:Pgj1997|Pgj1997]] 16:25, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
:It's not really that interesting. :--[[User:SuperAipom7|SuperAipom7]] ''([[User talk:SuperAipom7|Questions?]])'' 16:26, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
::So? {{unsigned|Pgj1997}}

== So-called evidence ==

A lot of the 'evidence' in the Speculation section seems really unneccesary. What does bringing back ocean currents, an area with a sandstorm, or Ash's party in DP189, have anything to do with a possible remake? I think the section needs trimming. [[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']][[Pikachu (Pokémon)|'''⚡''']] 20:41, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
:^ Ocean currents and sandstorms were introduced in Gen III and Ash used some of his Hoenn Pokémon in that episode. That is why they were added. I'm not saying they are the best piece of evidence, just saying why they were added. --[[User:HoennMaster|Hoenn]][[User talk:HoennMaster|Master]] 20:56, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
::I know, but they are not the same as, for example, Johto being coded in as a trade location, or Dawn traveling to Hoenn after SS024, opening the possibility of an anime reappearance for Hoenn. I guess they would have to re-code the ocean currents and the sandstorms back into the game, so thats fine, but as for DP189, thats from the Gen IV series, if Ash were to recall his Hoenn Pokemon in the Best Wishes series it would be notable. And a hiddden note next to it actually states that he only has three AG Pokemon on his team not including Pikachu (Sceptile, Swellow, Torkoal), Pikachu is what makes it "most of his team". Regarding some other points:
* ''The sixth Gym Leader of Unova, [[Skyla]], is a Flying-type specialist and lives near a rainy area, like [[Winona]] from Hoenn and both are the sixth Gym Leader in their respective regions.''
::Like Winona and Skyla, Pryce, Candice and Brycen are Ice-type gym leaders #7, but it doesnt mean that HeartGold/SoulSilver and Diamond/Pearl will get remakes.
* ''A fossil depicting an {{p|Armaldo}} in the [[Nacrene City]] museum.''
::Dragonite has a far more notable appearance, but it doesnt mean that they will remake FireRed/LeafGreen. And Armaldo is not unobtainable in BW.
* ''A {{tc|Backpacker}} in [[Desert Resort]] tells the player that he comes from Hoenn, and that he doesn't need the [[Go-Goggles]] here unlike in Hoenn.''
* ''In [[Undella Town]] during Summer, a boy tells the player that he and his family comes from Hoenn and visit Undella Town every Summer. A girl also mentions [[Steven Stone]]. ''
:: Random characters may mention Hoenn, but they also mention other regions.
* ''No characters introduced in Generation III are reused in Black and White, unlike other generations which saw characters repeated in these games. [[Cynthia]], [[Looker]], [[Caitlin]], and a former {{tc|Team Rocket Grunt}} were introduced before they appeared in Black and White.''
::This is actually evidence against a remake, Jasmine appeared in DP, and her games got a remake.
* ''The introduction of {{p|Maractus|another}} {{p|Cacnea|cactus}}-{{p|Cacturne|based}} Pokémon.''
:It also introduced another {{p|Bouffalant|bull}}-{{p|Tauros|based}} {{p|Miltank|Pokémon}}, {{p|Drilbur|mole}}-{{p|Diglett|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Baoppu|fire}} {{p|Hihidaruma|ape}}-{{p|Chimchar|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Munna|baku}}-{{p|Drowzee|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Zebraika|horse}}-{{p|Ponyta|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Koromori|bat}}-{{p|Zubat|based}} {{p|Gliscor|Pokémon}}, {{p|Dokkora|Machop}}-{{p|Machop|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Tympole|tadpole}}-{{p|Poliwag|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Nageki|Hit}}{{p|Dageki|mon}}-{{p|Hitmonlee|based}} {{p|Hitmonchan|Pokémon}}, {{p|Cottonee|cotton plant}}-{{p|Hoppip|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Lilligant|feminine, rafflesia}}-{{p|Bellossom|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Archen|fossil prehistoric bird}}-{{p|Aerodactyl|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Zoroark|kitsune}}-{{p|Ninetales|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Foongus|fungi}}-{{p|Shuckle|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Frillish|Jellyfish}}-{{p|Tentacool|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Galvantula|spider}}-{{p|Ariados|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Kumasyun|bear}}-{{p|Teddiursa|based}} Pokémon.
:[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']][[Pikachu (Pokémon)|'''⚡''']] 23:06, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

I trimmed down the article and removed many unnecessary facts. Some of the facts that you removed were worth keeping. You don't hear anyone else mentioning [[Champion]] [[Lance]] of the [[Kanto]] and [[Johto]] regions, do you? And having Dive return as a [[HM]], a large desert, The Riches Family (which is battled in the same way as Winstrates), ocean currents, language on walls (which wasn't present anywhere in [[Sinnoh]]), etc. is all there so that the programmers won't have to make much changes to the engine of Black and White for the remakes of Ruby and Sapphire. The same thing happened in [[Generation IV]]. [[HeartGold and SoulSilver]] were modified heavily off of [[Pokémon Platinum]]'s game engine and there was a good amount of similarities between [[Johto]] and [[Sinnoh]] ([[Jasmine]]'s appearance, [[Gym Leader]] line-up, interaction with trees, etc.). --[[User:Dialgafan1|Dialgafan1]] 00:20, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
:Okay, I have trimmed down it again, and I will list my reasons here. There are just as many Sinnoh Pokémon only available via the Dream World or Poké Transfer as Hoenn ones; therefore, it is meaningless. Nobody mentions Lance, but someone does mention Cynthia; in fact, she appears there. Most likely, nobody mentions Lance because they haven't decided whether he will be Champion at this time. Currents also appeared in FRLG. There is a sandstorm area in Sinnoh too; sure, it is post-Elite Four, but that shouldn't mean anything. You can draw a tonne of parallels between Gym Leaders (7th Gym Ice anyone?), but none of them even come close to hinting a remake. No previous NPCs at all appeared in RS (both Gen I and II NPCs were absent); this is not the case in Black and White, and this is not what happened in DPPt. Yes, because not mentioning Team Aqua and Magma means that they can screw the storyline over and retcon it into another time period over 3 years later (presentably 3 years + the age of TR Grunt's son + 9 months). If they wanted to put Hoenn at the same time as Unova, they would have put Unova in Hoenn's time. Hoenn certainly isn't the only region with a Safari Ball, and they had no issue programming in capture animations for the Apricorn Balls and Sport Ball in HGSS.
:There are a few other things that I still think are non-hints—Go-Goggles mention, The Riches, reference to Hoenn in Undella Town, having two rivals, Armoldo fossil—but I have left them anyway. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 12:05, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

==Should this be added?==

*[[Bianca]] and {{ga|May}}/{{ga|Brendan}} both give out the [[Dowsing MCHN]] and [[HM02]]. Coincidentally, both items are obtained after defeating the second and fifth gyms of the region.

Probably not because it is just coincidental. Just wanted to ask before adding it and getting in trouble. --[[User:Dialgafan1|Dialgafan1]] 17:55, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

== Recent Developments from Junichi Masuda's Twitter Account ==

I'm still learning the ropes here, so I really don't know how to add this new development to the page. This development was covered by Bulbanews, which in turn got its information direct from Masuda's twitter feed. http://bulbanews.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Masuda_replies_to_tweet_regarding_remakes_of_Generation_III_games --[[User:Marilynasol|Marilynasol]] 15:49, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
:Actually, it's already there on the right-hand side of the page. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 00:20, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

== Notable? ==

I noticed that while Pokémon most Pokémon from the original four regions other than Hoenn retain sprites from one of older games (with not so many Pokémon having different sprites, like {{p|Ampharos}}. On other side, some have bigger changes than just pose, like eg. {{p|Phanpy}} or {{p|Donphan}}), many (if not all) of Hoenn Pokémon got their sprites visibly updated in B/W (not just poses but also colors, visible on eg. {{p|Grovyle}}, {{p|Regice}} or {{p|Combusken}}) [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] 19:28, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
:That's likely because the Hoenn Pokémon were the only Pokémon to ''not'' get their sprites updated at all in the 4th gen. Doubt it has anything at all to do with a remake. - [[User:Blazios|Blazios]] [[User Talk:Blazios|talk]] 19:35, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
::Except {{p|Registeel}}. inb4 Nazi Salute. Every other Hoenn mon had one Gen IV sprite, it was the same through DPPtHGSS. Before I got Internet, I though that sprites from R/S are how they should look. Now I know they're not (inb4 Grovyle with {{tt|blue|WTF? At least Treecko and Sceptile have green-a-like leaves, while Grovyle had obvious BLUE leaves}} leaves and Seedot with gray/grey "hat"). [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] 20:19, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
:::Registeel had its sprite edited for European D/P, making it a localisation change to begin with that was eventually universally implemented. It was about as much of an update as Imprison's animation change is (As in not at all). Not that that has anything to do with anything. - [[User:Blazios|Blazios]] [[User Talk:Blazios|talk]] 20:29, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

== Johto? ==

Did May compete contests in Johto? I thought it was in Hoenn. [[User:Nickvang|Nickvang]] 17:28, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
:After the Advanced Generation ended may went on to Johto to continue contests. [[User:Pokemaster97|--Pokemaster]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|97]] 17:34, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
Right? But Johto doesn't even have contests? [[User:Nickvang|Nickvang]] 17:36, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
::It does in the anime, apparently.--[[User:MisterE13|Mister]][[User talk:MisterE13|'''E''']][[Special:Contributions/MisterE13|13]] 17:43, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

== Starters. ==

While Kanto, Johto and Sinnoh have different base stats total for each unevolved starter (apparently 309 for Fire-types, 314 for Water-types and 318 for Grass-types), Hoenn and Unova have all unevolved starters at the same base stat total (310 and 308 respectively). [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] 20:22, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

==Deep Sand==
Black & White has sand tiles (in the Desert Resort and Route 4) where wild Pokémon can be encountered, a mechanic introduced in Gen III but not used in Gen IV. I say this is evidence for Ruby & Sapphire remakes. —'''[[User:Team Magma Zangoose|Team Magma]] [[User talk:Team Magma Zangoose|Zangoose ⚡]]''' 04:57, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
:That's not evidence.. Sorry. [[User:Han Ji-Wan|Han Ji-Wan]] 07:04, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

still a bit suspicous to me but yeah, to me probably a coincidence, like triple battles or dive hm returning or even dive ball returning to original function. Then again, you could be right considering nintendo is not known to do random stuff [[User:Mastervictini|Mastervictini]] 20:56, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

== suspicous black and white 2 logo? a hint to ruby and sapphire possibly ==

[[User:Mastervictini|Mastervictini]] 21:02, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

I noticed the logo for pokemon black and white looks like it may be hinting to Hoenn,the ice is red and blue for white kyurem and black kyurem but the ice looks more like crystals then ice to me. It is probably just my imagination or a coincidence but the logo looks incredibly suspicous
[[User:Mastervictini|Mastervictini]] 21:02, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

== safari ball throwing animation and contest stats ==

if there were going to be no remakes why have a s-ball throwing animation, they went to the troble of removing hms 7 and 8 which are now blank spaces yet no safari zone is in Unova but they kept the animation which probably means future gen v games based in Hoenn will have a safari zone.
The hidden contest stats are suspicous and the fact that ribbons are programed but usually unobtainable outside of rare events is eyebrowraising
MasterVictini [[User:Mastervictini|Mastervictini]] 21:17, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
:The fact that generation IV key items are also hidden in the game code indicates that the hidden contest stats are likely copied code from generation IV games, rather than a hint of remakes. The same could be used to explain the safari ball throwing animation. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] [[User talk:Werdnae|(talk)]] 22:33, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

== red ,blue and green objects in recent movie 15 teaser trailer hinting somethig ==

I definately saw something looking a bit like 3 gems ruby, sapphire and emarald colored at one point during the video on pokemon smash
I dont have a link but the video is on fib I wonder if this is a hint especially considering the video was offical {{unsigned|Mastervictini}}
:[http://youtu.be/VGsFtHQtRPM This trailer]? I've watched it a few times and I still can't see any such gems. Can you screenshot them from it, if that is the video? --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 07:19, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

it was not in the actual movie it was in that room with those japanese guys on pokemon smash to their left - {{unsigned|Mastervictini}}

==The R/S remakes speculation part...==
Needs to mention some of the theory's criticism, like the Pokémon Gold and Silver remake speculation article did for that theory. - [[User:Ericss|Ericss]] 23:01, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

Talk:Remake

2012-03-03T20:44:08Z

Mastervictini: /* red ,blue and green objects in recent movie 15 teaser trailer hinting somethig */

==Third versions==
By the definition of remake in the article, wouldn't the third versions be considered remakes? [[User:Turtwig A|Turtwig's]] [[Turtwig (Pokémon)|A-B-Cs]] ([[User talk:Turtwig A|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|contribs]]) 21:50, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
:^ It's [[User:Turtwig A|Turtwig A]]! [[User talk:Turtwig A|My talk]] or [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|wiki edits]] 00:46, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

==Speculation section==
Do we really need it? It is all speculation, and I could dismiss half of it. Sure, it's tagged as speculation, but it doesn't make it fine to put in the article. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 11:33, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
:Or it can be moved to an article of its own like the GS remake one. There are evidences of it, somewhat like shipping. [[User:Tc26/Anime Predictions|tc]][[User:Tc26|²₆]][[User talk:Tc26|tc]][[User:Tc26/Sandbox|26]] 11:36, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
::I thought that got deleted because we didn't want an article full of just speculation. I think this kind of thing is best suited for the forums. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 12:15, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

== Sinnoh League Ground ==

It is worth mentioning that in Platinum in Sinnoh League building there is a ground with a red outer side, blue inner side and green-like moving lines (which could reference to R/S/E colors) [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] 21:28, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
:I don't think that's notable enough to be mentioned in the article. I'd say it's just pure coincidence. [[User:Han Ji-Wan|Han Ji-Wan]] 00:22, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

== Prefix ==

From what I've noticed, remakes have some sort of prefix at the begining
 '''Heart'''Gold
 '''Soul'''Silver
 '''Fire'''Red
 '''Leaf'''Green
 Should this be noted? [[User:Pgj1997|Pgj1997]] 16:25, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
:It's not really that interesting. :--[[User:SuperAipom7|SuperAipom7]] ''([[User talk:SuperAipom7|Questions?]])'' 16:26, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
::So? {{unsigned|Pgj1997}}

== So-called evidence ==

A lot of the 'evidence' in the Speculation section seems really unneccesary. What does bringing back ocean currents, an area with a sandstorm, or Ash's party in DP189, have anything to do with a possible remake? I think the section needs trimming. [[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']][[Pikachu (Pokémon)|'''⚡''']] 20:41, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
:^ Ocean currents and sandstorms were introduced in Gen III and Ash used some of his Hoenn Pokémon in that episode. That is why they were added. I'm not saying they are the best piece of evidence, just saying why they were added. --[[User:HoennMaster|Hoenn]][[User talk:HoennMaster|Master]] 20:56, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
::I know, but they are not the same as, for example, Johto being coded in as a trade location, or Dawn traveling to Hoenn after SS024, opening the possibility of an anime reappearance for Hoenn. I guess they would have to re-code the ocean currents and the sandstorms back into the game, so thats fine, but as for DP189, thats from the Gen IV series, if Ash were to recall his Hoenn Pokemon in the Best Wishes series it would be notable. And a hiddden note next to it actually states that he only has three AG Pokemon on his team not including Pikachu (Sceptile, Swellow, Torkoal), Pikachu is what makes it "most of his team". Regarding some other points:
* ''The sixth Gym Leader of Unova, [[Skyla]], is a Flying-type specialist and lives near a rainy area, like [[Winona]] from Hoenn and both are the sixth Gym Leader in their respective regions.''
::Like Winona and Skyla, Pryce, Candice and Brycen are Ice-type gym leaders #7, but it doesnt mean that HeartGold/SoulSilver and Diamond/Pearl will get remakes.
* ''A fossil depicting an {{p|Armaldo}} in the [[Nacrene City]] museum.''
::Dragonite has a far more notable appearance, but it doesnt mean that they will remake FireRed/LeafGreen. And Armaldo is not unobtainable in BW.
* ''A {{tc|Backpacker}} in [[Desert Resort]] tells the player that he comes from Hoenn, and that he doesn't need the [[Go-Goggles]] here unlike in Hoenn.''
* ''In [[Undella Town]] during Summer, a boy tells the player that he and his family comes from Hoenn and visit Undella Town every Summer. A girl also mentions [[Steven Stone]]. ''
:: Random characters may mention Hoenn, but they also mention other regions.
* ''No characters introduced in Generation III are reused in Black and White, unlike other generations which saw characters repeated in these games. [[Cynthia]], [[Looker]], [[Caitlin]], and a former {{tc|Team Rocket Grunt}} were introduced before they appeared in Black and White.''
::This is actually evidence against a remake, Jasmine appeared in DP, and her games got a remake.
* ''The introduction of {{p|Maractus|another}} {{p|Cacnea|cactus}}-{{p|Cacturne|based}} Pokémon.''
:It also introduced another {{p|Bouffalant|bull}}-{{p|Tauros|based}} {{p|Miltank|Pokémon}}, {{p|Drilbur|mole}}-{{p|Diglett|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Baoppu|fire}} {{p|Hihidaruma|ape}}-{{p|Chimchar|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Munna|baku}}-{{p|Drowzee|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Zebraika|horse}}-{{p|Ponyta|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Koromori|bat}}-{{p|Zubat|based}} {{p|Gliscor|Pokémon}}, {{p|Dokkora|Machop}}-{{p|Machop|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Tympole|tadpole}}-{{p|Poliwag|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Nageki|Hit}}{{p|Dageki|mon}}-{{p|Hitmonlee|based}} {{p|Hitmonchan|Pokémon}}, {{p|Cottonee|cotton plant}}-{{p|Hoppip|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Lilligant|feminine, rafflesia}}-{{p|Bellossom|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Archen|fossil prehistoric bird}}-{{p|Aerodactyl|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Zoroark|kitsune}}-{{p|Ninetales|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Foongus|fungi}}-{{p|Shuckle|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Frillish|Jellyfish}}-{{p|Tentacool|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Galvantula|spider}}-{{p|Ariados|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Kumasyun|bear}}-{{p|Teddiursa|based}} Pokémon.
:[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']][[Pikachu (Pokémon)|'''⚡''']] 23:06, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

I trimmed down the article and removed many unnecessary facts. Some of the facts that you removed were worth keeping. You don't hear anyone else mentioning [[Champion]] [[Lance]] of the [[Kanto]] and [[Johto]] regions, do you? And having Dive return as a [[HM]], a large desert, The Riches Family (which is battled in the same way as Winstrates), ocean currents, language on walls (which wasn't present anywhere in [[Sinnoh]]), etc. is all there so that the programmers won't have to make much changes to the engine of Black and White for the remakes of Ruby and Sapphire. The same thing happened in [[Generation IV]]. [[HeartGold and SoulSilver]] were modified heavily off of [[Pokémon Platinum]]'s game engine and there was a good amount of similarities between [[Johto]] and [[Sinnoh]] ([[Jasmine]]'s appearance, [[Gym Leader]] line-up, interaction with trees, etc.). --[[User:Dialgafan1|Dialgafan1]] 00:20, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
:Okay, I have trimmed down it again, and I will list my reasons here. There are just as many Sinnoh Pokémon only available via the Dream World or Poké Transfer as Hoenn ones; therefore, it is meaningless. Nobody mentions Lance, but someone does mention Cynthia; in fact, she appears there. Most likely, nobody mentions Lance because they haven't decided whether he will be Champion at this time. Currents also appeared in FRLG. There is a sandstorm area in Sinnoh too; sure, it is post-Elite Four, but that shouldn't mean anything. You can draw a tonne of parallels between Gym Leaders (7th Gym Ice anyone?), but none of them even come close to hinting a remake. No previous NPCs at all appeared in RS (both Gen I and II NPCs were absent); this is not the case in Black and White, and this is not what happened in DPPt. Yes, because not mentioning Team Aqua and Magma means that they can screw the storyline over and retcon it into another time period over 3 years later (presentably 3 years + the age of TR Grunt's son + 9 months). If they wanted to put Hoenn at the same time as Unova, they would have put Unova in Hoenn's time. Hoenn certainly isn't the only region with a Safari Ball, and they had no issue programming in capture animations for the Apricorn Balls and Sport Ball in HGSS.
:There are a few other things that I still think are non-hints—Go-Goggles mention, The Riches, reference to Hoenn in Undella Town, having two rivals, Armoldo fossil—but I have left them anyway. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 12:05, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

==Should this be added?==

*[[Bianca]] and {{ga|May}}/{{ga|Brendan}} both give out the [[Dowsing MCHN]] and [[HM02]]. Coincidentally, both items are obtained after defeating the second and fifth gyms of the region.

Probably not because it is just coincidental. Just wanted to ask before adding it and getting in trouble. --[[User:Dialgafan1|Dialgafan1]] 17:55, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

== Recent Developments from Junichi Masuda's Twitter Account ==

I'm still learning the ropes here, so I really don't know how to add this new development to the page. This development was covered by Bulbanews, which in turn got its information direct from Masuda's twitter feed. http://bulbanews.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Masuda_replies_to_tweet_regarding_remakes_of_Generation_III_games --[[User:Marilynasol|Marilynasol]] 15:49, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
:Actually, it's already there on the right-hand side of the page. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 00:20, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

== Notable? ==

I noticed that while Pokémon most Pokémon from the original four regions other than Hoenn retain sprites from one of older games (with not so many Pokémon having different sprites, like {{p|Ampharos}}. On other side, some have bigger changes than just pose, like eg. {{p|Phanpy}} or {{p|Donphan}}), many (if not all) of Hoenn Pokémon got their sprites visibly updated in B/W (not just poses but also colors, visible on eg. {{p|Grovyle}}, {{p|Regice}} or {{p|Combusken}}) [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] 19:28, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
:That's likely because the Hoenn Pokémon were the only Pokémon to ''not'' get their sprites updated at all in the 4th gen. Doubt it has anything at all to do with a remake. - [[User:Blazios|Blazios]] [[User Talk:Blazios|talk]] 19:35, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
::Except {{p|Registeel}}. inb4 Nazi Salute. Every other Hoenn mon had one Gen IV sprite, it was the same through DPPtHGSS. Before I got Internet, I though that sprites from R/S are how they should look. Now I know they're not (inb4 Grovyle with {{tt|blue|WTF? At least Treecko and Sceptile have green-a-like leaves, while Grovyle had obvious BLUE leaves}} leaves and Seedot with gray/grey "hat"). [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] 20:19, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
:::Registeel had its sprite edited for European D/P, making it a localisation change to begin with that was eventually universally implemented. It was about as much of an update as Imprison's animation change is (As in not at all). Not that that has anything to do with anything. - [[User:Blazios|Blazios]] [[User Talk:Blazios|talk]] 20:29, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

== Johto? ==

Did May compete contests in Johto? I thought it was in Hoenn. [[User:Nickvang|Nickvang]] 17:28, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
:After the Advanced Generation ended may went on to Johto to continue contests. [[User:Pokemaster97|--Pokemaster]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|97]] 17:34, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
Right? But Johto doesn't even have contests? [[User:Nickvang|Nickvang]] 17:36, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
::It does in the anime, apparently.--[[User:MisterE13|Mister]][[User talk:MisterE13|'''E''']][[Special:Contributions/MisterE13|13]] 17:43, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

== Starters. ==

While Kanto, Johto and Sinnoh have different base stats total for each unevolved starter (apparently 309 for Fire-types, 314 for Water-types and 318 for Grass-types), Hoenn and Unova have all unevolved starters at the same base stat total (310 and 308 respectively). [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] 20:22, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

==Deep Sand==
Black & White has sand tiles (in the Desert Resort and Route 4) where wild Pokémon can be encountered, a mechanic introduced in Gen III but not used in Gen IV. I say this is evidence for Ruby & Sapphire remakes. —'''[[User:Team Magma Zangoose|Team Magma]] [[User talk:Team Magma Zangoose|Zangoose ⚡]]''' 04:57, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
:That's not evidence.. Sorry. [[User:Han Ji-Wan|Han Ji-Wan]] 07:04, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

== suspicous black and white 2 logo? a hint to ruby and sapphire possibly ==

[[User:Mastervictini|Mastervictini]] 21:02, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

I noticed the logo for pokemon black and white looks like it may be hinting to Hoenn,the ice is red and blue for white kyurem and black kyurem but the ice looks more like crystals then ice to me. It is probably just my imagination or a coincidence but the logo looks incredibly suspicous
[[User:Mastervictini|Mastervictini]] 21:02, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

== safari ball throwing animation and contest stats ==

if there were going to be no remakes why have a s-ball throwing animation, they went to the troble of removing hms 7 and 8 which are now blank spaces yet no safari zone is in Unova but they kept the animation which probably means future gen v games based in Hoenn will have a safari zone.
The hidden contest stats are suspicous and the fact that ribbons are programed but usually unobtainable outside of rare events is eyebrowraising
MasterVictini [[User:Mastervictini|Mastervictini]] 21:17, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
:The fact that generation IV key items are also hidden in the game code indicates that the hidden contest stats are likely copied code from generation IV games, rather than a hint of remakes. The same could be used to explain the safari ball throwing animation. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] [[User talk:Werdnae|(talk)]] 22:33, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

== red ,blue and green objects in recent movie 15 teaser trailer hinting somethig ==

I definately saw something looking a bit like 3 gems ruby, sapphire and emarald colored at one point during the video on pokemon smash
I dont have a link but the video is on fib I wonder if this is a hint especially considering the video was offical {{unsigned|Mastervictini}}
:[http://youtu.be/VGsFtHQtRPM This trailer]? I've watched it a few times and I still can't see any such gems. Can you screenshot them from it, if that is the video? --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 07:19, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

it was not in the actual movie it was in that room with those japanese guys on pokemon smash to their left

==The R/S remakes speculation part...==
Needs to mention some of the theory's criticism, like the Pokémon Gold and Silver remake speculation article did for that theory. - [[User:Ericss|Ericss]] 23:01, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

Talk:Remake

2012-03-01T00:26:33Z

Mastervictini: /* red ,blue and green objects in recent movie 15 teaser trailer hinting somethig */ new section

==Third versions==
By the definition of remake in the article, wouldn't the third versions be considered remakes? [[User:Turtwig A|Turtwig's]] [[Turtwig (Pokémon)|A-B-Cs]] ([[User talk:Turtwig A|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|contribs]]) 21:50, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
:^ It's [[User:Turtwig A|Turtwig A]]! [[User talk:Turtwig A|My talk]] or [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|wiki edits]] 00:46, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

==Speculation section==
Do we really need it? It is all speculation, and I could dismiss half of it. Sure, it's tagged as speculation, but it doesn't make it fine to put in the article. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 11:33, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
:Or it can be moved to an article of its own like the GS remake one. There are evidences of it, somewhat like shipping. [[User:Tc26/Anime Predictions|tc]][[User:Tc26|²₆]][[User talk:Tc26|tc]][[User:Tc26/Sandbox|26]] 11:36, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
::I thought that got deleted because we didn't want an article full of just speculation. I think this kind of thing is best suited for the forums. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 12:15, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

== Sinnoh League Ground ==

It is worth mentioning that in Platinum in Sinnoh League building there is a ground with a red outer side, blue inner side and green-like moving lines (which could reference to R/S/E colors) [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] 21:28, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
:I don't think that's notable enough to be mentioned in the article. I'd say it's just pure coincidence. [[User:Han Ji-Wan|Han Ji-Wan]] 00:22, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

== Prefix ==

From what I've noticed, remakes have some sort of prefix at the begining
 '''Heart'''Gold
 '''Soul'''Silver
 '''Fire'''Red
 '''Leaf'''Green
 Should this be noted? [[User:Pgj1997|Pgj1997]] 16:25, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
:It's not really that interesting. :--[[User:SuperAipom7|SuperAipom7]] ''([[User talk:SuperAipom7|Questions?]])'' 16:26, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
::So? {{unsigned|Pgj1997}}

== So-called evidence ==

A lot of the 'evidence' in the Speculation section seems really unneccesary. What does bringing back ocean currents, an area with a sandstorm, or Ash's party in DP189, have anything to do with a possible remake? I think the section needs trimming. [[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']][[Pikachu (Pokémon)|'''⚡''']] 20:41, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
:^ Ocean currents and sandstorms were introduced in Gen III and Ash used some of his Hoenn Pokémon in that episode. That is why they were added. I'm not saying they are the best piece of evidence, just saying why they were added. --[[User:HoennMaster|Hoenn]][[User talk:HoennMaster|Master]] 20:56, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
::I know, but they are not the same as, for example, Johto being coded in as a trade location, or Dawn traveling to Hoenn after SS024, opening the possibility of an anime reappearance for Hoenn. I guess they would have to re-code the ocean currents and the sandstorms back into the game, so thats fine, but as for DP189, thats from the Gen IV series, if Ash were to recall his Hoenn Pokemon in the Best Wishes series it would be notable. And a hiddden note next to it actually states that he only has three AG Pokemon on his team not including Pikachu (Sceptile, Swellow, Torkoal), Pikachu is what makes it "most of his team". Regarding some other points:
* ''The sixth Gym Leader of Unova, [[Skyla]], is a Flying-type specialist and lives near a rainy area, like [[Winona]] from Hoenn and both are the sixth Gym Leader in their respective regions.''
::Like Winona and Skyla, Pryce, Candice and Brycen are Ice-type gym leaders #7, but it doesnt mean that HeartGold/SoulSilver and Diamond/Pearl will get remakes.
* ''A fossil depicting an {{p|Armaldo}} in the [[Nacrene City]] museum.''
::Dragonite has a far more notable appearance, but it doesnt mean that they will remake FireRed/LeafGreen. And Armaldo is not unobtainable in BW.
* ''A {{tc|Backpacker}} in [[Desert Resort]] tells the player that he comes from Hoenn, and that he doesn't need the [[Go-Goggles]] here unlike in Hoenn.''
* ''In [[Undella Town]] during Summer, a boy tells the player that he and his family comes from Hoenn and visit Undella Town every Summer. A girl also mentions [[Steven Stone]]. ''
:: Random characters may mention Hoenn, but they also mention other regions.
* ''No characters introduced in Generation III are reused in Black and White, unlike other generations which saw characters repeated in these games. [[Cynthia]], [[Looker]], [[Caitlin]], and a former {{tc|Team Rocket Grunt}} were introduced before they appeared in Black and White.''
::This is actually evidence against a remake, Jasmine appeared in DP, and her games got a remake.
* ''The introduction of {{p|Maractus|another}} {{p|Cacnea|cactus}}-{{p|Cacturne|based}} Pokémon.''
:It also introduced another {{p|Bouffalant|bull}}-{{p|Tauros|based}} {{p|Miltank|Pokémon}}, {{p|Drilbur|mole}}-{{p|Diglett|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Baoppu|fire}} {{p|Hihidaruma|ape}}-{{p|Chimchar|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Munna|baku}}-{{p|Drowzee|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Zebraika|horse}}-{{p|Ponyta|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Koromori|bat}}-{{p|Zubat|based}} {{p|Gliscor|Pokémon}}, {{p|Dokkora|Machop}}-{{p|Machop|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Tympole|tadpole}}-{{p|Poliwag|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Nageki|Hit}}{{p|Dageki|mon}}-{{p|Hitmonlee|based}} {{p|Hitmonchan|Pokémon}}, {{p|Cottonee|cotton plant}}-{{p|Hoppip|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Lilligant|feminine, rafflesia}}-{{p|Bellossom|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Archen|fossil prehistoric bird}}-{{p|Aerodactyl|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Zoroark|kitsune}}-{{p|Ninetales|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Foongus|fungi}}-{{p|Shuckle|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Frillish|Jellyfish}}-{{p|Tentacool|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Galvantula|spider}}-{{p|Ariados|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Kumasyun|bear}}-{{p|Teddiursa|based}} Pokémon.
:[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']][[Pikachu (Pokémon)|'''⚡''']] 23:06, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

I trimmed down the article and removed many unnecessary facts. Some of the facts that you removed were worth keeping. You don't hear anyone else mentioning [[Champion]] [[Lance]] of the [[Kanto]] and [[Johto]] regions, do you? And having Dive return as a [[HM]], a large desert, The Riches Family (which is battled in the same way as Winstrates), ocean currents, language on walls (which wasn't present anywhere in [[Sinnoh]]), etc. is all there so that the programmers won't have to make much changes to the engine of Black and White for the remakes of Ruby and Sapphire. The same thing happened in [[Generation IV]]. [[HeartGold and SoulSilver]] were modified heavily off of [[Pokémon Platinum]]'s game engine and there was a good amount of similarities between [[Johto]] and [[Sinnoh]] ([[Jasmine]]'s appearance, [[Gym Leader]] line-up, interaction with trees, etc.). --[[User:Dialgafan1|Dialgafan1]] 00:20, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
:Okay, I have trimmed down it again, and I will list my reasons here. There are just as many Sinnoh Pokémon only available via the Dream World or Poké Transfer as Hoenn ones; therefore, it is meaningless. Nobody mentions Lance, but someone does mention Cynthia; in fact, she appears there. Most likely, nobody mentions Lance because they haven't decided whether he will be Champion at this time. Currents also appeared in FRLG. There is a sandstorm area in Sinnoh too; sure, it is post-Elite Four, but that shouldn't mean anything. You can draw a tonne of parallels between Gym Leaders (7th Gym Ice anyone?), but none of them even come close to hinting a remake. No previous NPCs at all appeared in RS (both Gen I and II NPCs were absent); this is not the case in Black and White, and this is not what happened in DPPt. Yes, because not mentioning Team Aqua and Magma means that they can screw the storyline over and retcon it into another time period over 3 years later (presentably 3 years + the age of TR Grunt's son + 9 months). If they wanted to put Hoenn at the same time as Unova, they would have put Unova in Hoenn's time. Hoenn certainly isn't the only region with a Safari Ball, and they had no issue programming in capture animations for the Apricorn Balls and Sport Ball in HGSS.
:There are a few other things that I still think are non-hints—Go-Goggles mention, The Riches, reference to Hoenn in Undella Town, having two rivals, Armoldo fossil—but I have left them anyway. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 12:05, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

==Should this be added?==

*[[Bianca]] and {{ga|May}}/{{ga|Brendan}} both give out the [[Dowsing MCHN]] and [[HM02]]. Coincidentally, both items are obtained after defeating the second and fifth gyms of the region.

Probably not because it is just coincidental. Just wanted to ask before adding it and getting in trouble. --[[User:Dialgafan1|Dialgafan1]] 17:55, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

== Recent Developments from Junichi Masuda's Twitter Account ==

I'm still learning the ropes here, so I really don't know how to add this new development to the page. This development was covered by Bulbanews, which in turn got its information direct from Masuda's twitter feed. http://bulbanews.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Masuda_replies_to_tweet_regarding_remakes_of_Generation_III_games --[[User:Marilynasol|Marilynasol]] 15:49, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
:Actually, it's already there on the right-hand side of the page. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 00:20, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

== Notable? ==

I noticed that while Pokémon most Pokémon from the original four regions other than Hoenn retain sprites from one of older games (with not so many Pokémon having different sprites, like {{p|Ampharos}}. On other side, some have bigger changes than just pose, like eg. {{p|Phanpy}} or {{p|Donphan}}), many (if not all) of Hoenn Pokémon got their sprites visibly updated in B/W (not just poses but also colors, visible on eg. {{p|Grovyle}}, {{p|Regice}} or {{p|Combusken}}) [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] 19:28, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
:That's likely because the Hoenn Pokémon were the only Pokémon to ''not'' get their sprites updated at all in the 4th gen. Doubt it has anything at all to do with a remake. - [[User:Blazios|Blazios]] [[User Talk:Blazios|talk]] 19:35, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
::Except {{p|Registeel}}. inb4 Nazi Salute. Every other Hoenn mon had one Gen IV sprite, it was the same through DPPtHGSS. Before I got Internet, I though that sprites from R/S are how they should look. Now I know they're not (inb4 Grovyle with {{tt|blue|WTF? At least Treecko and Sceptile have green-a-like leaves, while Grovyle had obvious BLUE leaves}} leaves and Seedot with gray/grey "hat"). [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] 20:19, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
:::Registeel had its sprite edited for European D/P, making it a localisation change to begin with that was eventually universally implemented. It was about as much of an update as Imprison's animation change is (As in not at all). Not that that has anything to do with anything. - [[User:Blazios|Blazios]] [[User Talk:Blazios|talk]] 20:29, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

== Johto? ==

Did May compete contests in Johto? I thought it was in Hoenn. [[User:Nickvang|Nickvang]] 17:28, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
:After the Advanced Generation ended may went on to Johto to continue contests. [[User:Pokemaster97|--Pokemaster]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|97]] 17:34, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
Right? But Johto doesn't even have contests? [[User:Nickvang|Nickvang]] 17:36, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
::It does in the anime, apparently.--[[User:MisterE13|Mister]][[User talk:MisterE13|'''E''']][[Special:Contributions/MisterE13|13]] 17:43, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

== Starters. ==

While Kanto, Johto and Sinnoh have different base stats total for each unevolved starter (apparently 309 for Fire-types, 314 for Water-types and 318 for Grass-types), Hoenn and Unova have all unevolved starters at the same base stat total (310 and 308 respectively). [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] 20:22, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

==Deep Sand==
Black & White has sand tiles (in the Desert Resort and Route 4) where wild Pokémon can be encountered, a mechanic introduced in Gen III but not used in Gen IV. I say this is evidence for Ruby & Sapphire remakes. —'''[[User:Team Magma Zangoose|Team Magma]] [[User talk:Team Magma Zangoose|Zangoose ⚡]]''' 04:57, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
:That's not evidence.. Sorry. [[User:Han Ji-Wan|Han Ji-Wan]] 07:04, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

== suspicous black and white 2 logo? a hint to ruby and sapphire possibly ==

[[User:Mastervictini|Mastervictini]] 21:02, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

I noticed the logo for pokemon black and white looks like it may be hinting to Hoenn,the ice is red and blue for white kyurem and black kyurem but the ice looks more like crystals then ice to me. It is probably just my imagination or a coincidence but the logo looks incredibly suspicous
[[User:Mastervictini|Mastervictini]] 21:02, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

== safari ball throwing animation and contest stats ==

if there were going to be no remakes why have a s-ball throwing animation, they went to the troble of removing hms 7 and 8 which are now blank spaces yet no safari zone is in Unova but they kept the animation which probably means future gen v games based in Hoenn will have a safari zone.
The hidden contest stats are suspicous and the fact that ribbons are programed but usually unobtainable outside of rare events is eyebrowraising
MasterVictini [[User:Mastervictini|Mastervictini]] 21:17, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
:The fact that generation IV key items are also hidden in the game code indicates that the hidden contest stats are likely copied code from generation IV games, rather than a hint of remakes. The same could be used to explain the safari ball throwing animation. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] [[User talk:Werdnae|(talk)]] 22:33, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

== red ,blue and green objects in recent movie 15 teaser trailer hinting somethig ==

I definately saw something looking a bit like 3 gems ruby, sapphire and emarald colored at one point during the video on pokemon smash
I dont have a link but the video is on fib I wonder if this is a hint especially considering the video was offical

Talk:Remake

2012-02-29T21:17:08Z

Mastervictini: /* safari ball throwing animation and contest stats */ new section

==Third versions==
By the definition of remake in the article, wouldn't the third versions be considered remakes? [[User:Turtwig A|Turtwig's]] [[Turtwig (Pokémon)|A-B-Cs]] ([[User talk:Turtwig A|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|contribs]]) 21:50, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
:^ It's [[User:Turtwig A|Turtwig A]]! [[User talk:Turtwig A|My talk]] or [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|wiki edits]] 00:46, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

==Speculation section==
Do we really need it? It is all speculation, and I could dismiss half of it. Sure, it's tagged as speculation, but it doesn't make it fine to put in the article. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 11:33, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
:Or it can be moved to an article of its own like the GS remake one. There are evidences of it, somewhat like shipping. [[User:Tc26/Anime Predictions|tc]][[User:Tc26|²₆]][[User talk:Tc26|tc]][[User:Tc26/Sandbox|26]] 11:36, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
::I thought that got deleted because we didn't want an article full of just speculation. I think this kind of thing is best suited for the forums. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 12:15, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

== Sinnoh League Ground ==

It is worth mentioning that in Platinum in Sinnoh League building there is a ground with a red outer side, blue inner side and green-like moving lines (which could reference to R/S/E colors) [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] 21:28, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
:I don't think that's notable enough to be mentioned in the article. I'd say it's just pure coincidence. [[User:Han Ji-Wan|Han Ji-Wan]] 00:22, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

== Prefix ==

From what I've noticed, remakes have some sort of prefix at the begining
 '''Heart'''Gold
 '''Soul'''Silver
 '''Fire'''Red
 '''Leaf'''Green
 Should this be noted? [[User:Pgj1997|Pgj1997]] 16:25, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
:It's not really that interesting. :--[[User:SuperAipom7|SuperAipom7]] ''([[User talk:SuperAipom7|Questions?]])'' 16:26, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
::So? {{unsigned|Pgj1997}}

== So-called evidence ==

A lot of the 'evidence' in the Speculation section seems really unneccesary. What does bringing back ocean currents, an area with a sandstorm, or Ash's party in DP189, have anything to do with a possible remake? I think the section needs trimming. [[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']][[Pikachu (Pokémon)|'''⚡''']] 20:41, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
:^ Ocean currents and sandstorms were introduced in Gen III and Ash used some of his Hoenn Pokémon in that episode. That is why they were added. I'm not saying they are the best piece of evidence, just saying why they were added. --[[User:HoennMaster|Hoenn]][[User talk:HoennMaster|Master]] 20:56, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
::I know, but they are not the same as, for example, Johto being coded in as a trade location, or Dawn traveling to Hoenn after SS024, opening the possibility of an anime reappearance for Hoenn. I guess they would have to re-code the ocean currents and the sandstorms back into the game, so thats fine, but as for DP189, thats from the Gen IV series, if Ash were to recall his Hoenn Pokemon in the Best Wishes series it would be notable. And a hiddden note next to it actually states that he only has three AG Pokemon on his team not including Pikachu (Sceptile, Swellow, Torkoal), Pikachu is what makes it "most of his team". Regarding some other points:
* ''The sixth Gym Leader of Unova, [[Skyla]], is a Flying-type specialist and lives near a rainy area, like [[Winona]] from Hoenn and both are the sixth Gym Leader in their respective regions.''
::Like Winona and Skyla, Pryce, Candice and Brycen are Ice-type gym leaders #7, but it doesnt mean that HeartGold/SoulSilver and Diamond/Pearl will get remakes.
* ''A fossil depicting an {{p|Armaldo}} in the [[Nacrene City]] museum.''
::Dragonite has a far more notable appearance, but it doesnt mean that they will remake FireRed/LeafGreen. And Armaldo is not unobtainable in BW.
* ''A {{tc|Backpacker}} in [[Desert Resort]] tells the player that he comes from Hoenn, and that he doesn't need the [[Go-Goggles]] here unlike in Hoenn.''
* ''In [[Undella Town]] during Summer, a boy tells the player that he and his family comes from Hoenn and visit Undella Town every Summer. A girl also mentions [[Steven Stone]]. ''
:: Random characters may mention Hoenn, but they also mention other regions.
* ''No characters introduced in Generation III are reused in Black and White, unlike other generations which saw characters repeated in these games. [[Cynthia]], [[Looker]], [[Caitlin]], and a former {{tc|Team Rocket Grunt}} were introduced before they appeared in Black and White.''
::This is actually evidence against a remake, Jasmine appeared in DP, and her games got a remake.
* ''The introduction of {{p|Maractus|another}} {{p|Cacnea|cactus}}-{{p|Cacturne|based}} Pokémon.''
:It also introduced another {{p|Bouffalant|bull}}-{{p|Tauros|based}} {{p|Miltank|Pokémon}}, {{p|Drilbur|mole}}-{{p|Diglett|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Baoppu|fire}} {{p|Hihidaruma|ape}}-{{p|Chimchar|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Munna|baku}}-{{p|Drowzee|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Zebraika|horse}}-{{p|Ponyta|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Koromori|bat}}-{{p|Zubat|based}} {{p|Gliscor|Pokémon}}, {{p|Dokkora|Machop}}-{{p|Machop|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Tympole|tadpole}}-{{p|Poliwag|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Nageki|Hit}}{{p|Dageki|mon}}-{{p|Hitmonlee|based}} {{p|Hitmonchan|Pokémon}}, {{p|Cottonee|cotton plant}}-{{p|Hoppip|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Lilligant|feminine, rafflesia}}-{{p|Bellossom|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Archen|fossil prehistoric bird}}-{{p|Aerodactyl|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Zoroark|kitsune}}-{{p|Ninetales|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Foongus|fungi}}-{{p|Shuckle|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Frillish|Jellyfish}}-{{p|Tentacool|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Galvantula|spider}}-{{p|Ariados|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Kumasyun|bear}}-{{p|Teddiursa|based}} Pokémon.
:[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']][[Pikachu (Pokémon)|'''⚡''']] 23:06, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

I trimmed down the article and removed many unnecessary facts. Some of the facts that you removed were worth keeping. You don't hear anyone else mentioning [[Champion]] [[Lance]] of the [[Kanto]] and [[Johto]] regions, do you? And having Dive return as a [[HM]], a large desert, The Riches Family (which is battled in the same way as Winstrates), ocean currents, language on walls (which wasn't present anywhere in [[Sinnoh]]), etc. is all there so that the programmers won't have to make much changes to the engine of Black and White for the remakes of Ruby and Sapphire. The same thing happened in [[Generation IV]]. [[HeartGold and SoulSilver]] were modified heavily off of [[Pokémon Platinum]]'s game engine and there was a good amount of similarities between [[Johto]] and [[Sinnoh]] ([[Jasmine]]'s appearance, [[Gym Leader]] line-up, interaction with trees, etc.). --[[User:Dialgafan1|Dialgafan1]] 00:20, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
:Okay, I have trimmed down it again, and I will list my reasons here. There are just as many Sinnoh Pokémon only available via the Dream World or Poké Transfer as Hoenn ones; therefore, it is meaningless. Nobody mentions Lance, but someone does mention Cynthia; in fact, she appears there. Most likely, nobody mentions Lance because they haven't decided whether he will be Champion at this time. Currents also appeared in FRLG. There is a sandstorm area in Sinnoh too; sure, it is post-Elite Four, but that shouldn't mean anything. You can draw a tonne of parallels between Gym Leaders (7th Gym Ice anyone?), but none of them even come close to hinting a remake. No previous NPCs at all appeared in RS (both Gen I and II NPCs were absent); this is not the case in Black and White, and this is not what happened in DPPt. Yes, because not mentioning Team Aqua and Magma means that they can screw the storyline over and retcon it into another time period over 3 years later (presentably 3 years + the age of TR Grunt's son + 9 months). If they wanted to put Hoenn at the same time as Unova, they would have put Unova in Hoenn's time. Hoenn certainly isn't the only region with a Safari Ball, and they had no issue programming in capture animations for the Apricorn Balls and Sport Ball in HGSS.
:There are a few other things that I still think are non-hints—Go-Goggles mention, The Riches, reference to Hoenn in Undella Town, having two rivals, Armoldo fossil—but I have left them anyway. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 12:05, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

==Should this be added?==

*[[Bianca]] and {{ga|May}}/{{ga|Brendan}} both give out the [[Dowsing MCHN]] and [[HM02]]. Coincidentally, both items are obtained after defeating the second and fifth gyms of the region.

Probably not because it is just coincidental. Just wanted to ask before adding it and getting in trouble. --[[User:Dialgafan1|Dialgafan1]] 17:55, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

== Recent Developments from Junichi Masuda's Twitter Account ==

I'm still learning the ropes here, so I really don't know how to add this new development to the page. This development was covered by Bulbanews, which in turn got its information direct from Masuda's twitter feed. http://bulbanews.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Masuda_replies_to_tweet_regarding_remakes_of_Generation_III_games --[[User:Marilynasol|Marilynasol]] 15:49, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
:Actually, it's already there on the right-hand side of the page. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 00:20, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

== Notable? ==

I noticed that while Pokémon most Pokémon from the original four regions other than Hoenn retain sprites from one of older games (with not so many Pokémon having different sprites, like {{p|Ampharos}}. On other side, some have bigger changes than just pose, like eg. {{p|Phanpy}} or {{p|Donphan}}), many (if not all) of Hoenn Pokémon got their sprites visibly updated in B/W (not just poses but also colors, visible on eg. {{p|Grovyle}}, {{p|Regice}} or {{p|Combusken}}) [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] 19:28, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
:That's likely because the Hoenn Pokémon were the only Pokémon to ''not'' get their sprites updated at all in the 4th gen. Doubt it has anything at all to do with a remake. - [[User:Blazios|Blazios]] [[User Talk:Blazios|talk]] 19:35, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
::Except {{p|Registeel}}. inb4 Nazi Salute. Every other Hoenn mon had one Gen IV sprite, it was the same through DPPtHGSS. Before I got Internet, I though that sprites from R/S are how they should look. Now I know they're not (inb4 Grovyle with {{tt|blue|WTF? At least Treecko and Sceptile have green-a-like leaves, while Grovyle had obvious BLUE leaves}} leaves and Seedot with gray/grey "hat"). [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] 20:19, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
:::Registeel had its sprite edited for European D/P, making it a localisation change to begin with that was eventually universally implemented. It was about as much of an update as Imprison's animation change is (As in not at all). Not that that has anything to do with anything. - [[User:Blazios|Blazios]] [[User Talk:Blazios|talk]] 20:29, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

== Johto? ==

Did May compete contests in Johto? I thought it was in Hoenn. [[User:Nickvang|Nickvang]] 17:28, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
:After the Advanced Generation ended may went on to Johto to continue contests. [[User:Pokemaster97|--Pokemaster]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|97]] 17:34, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
Right? But Johto doesn't even have contests? [[User:Nickvang|Nickvang]] 17:36, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
::It does in the anime, apparently.--[[User:MisterE13|Mister]][[User talk:MisterE13|'''E''']][[Special:Contributions/MisterE13|13]] 17:43, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

== Starters. ==

While Kanto, Johto and Sinnoh have different base stats total for each unevolved starter (apparently 309 for Fire-types, 314 for Water-types and 318 for Grass-types), Hoenn and Unova have all unevolved starters at the same base stat total (310 and 308 respectively). [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] 20:22, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

==Deep Sand==
Black & White has sand tiles (in the Desert Resort and Route 4) where wild Pokémon can be encountered, a mechanic introduced in Gen III but not used in Gen IV. I say this is evidence for Ruby & Sapphire remakes. —'''[[User:Team Magma Zangoose|Team Magma]] [[User talk:Team Magma Zangoose|Zangoose ⚡]]''' 04:57, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
:That's not evidence.. Sorry. [[User:Han Ji-Wan|Han Ji-Wan]] 07:04, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

== suspicous black and white 2 logo? a hint to ruby and sapphire possibly ==

[[User:Mastervictini|Mastervictini]] 21:02, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

I noticed the logo for pokemon black and white looks like it may be hinting to Hoenn,the ice is red and blue for white kyurem and black kyurem but the ice looks more like crystals then ice to me. It is probably just my imagination or a coincidence but the logo looks incredibly suspicous
[[User:Mastervictini|Mastervictini]] 21:02, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

== safari ball throwing animation and contest stats ==

if there were going to be no remakes why have a s-ball throwing animation, they went to the troble of removing hms 7 and 8 which are now blank spaces yet no safari zone is in Unova but they kept the animation which probably means future gen v games based in Hoenn will have a safari zone.
The hidden contest stats are suspicous and the fact that ribbons are programed but usually unobtainable outside of rare events is eyebrowraising
MasterVictini [[User:Mastervictini|Mastervictini]] 21:17, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

Talk:Remake

2012-02-29T21:02:53Z

Mastervictini: /* suspicous black and white 2 logo? a hint to ruby and sapphire possibly */ new section

==Third versions==
By the definition of remake in the article, wouldn't the third versions be considered remakes? [[User:Turtwig A|Turtwig's]] [[Turtwig (Pokémon)|A-B-Cs]] ([[User talk:Turtwig A|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|contribs]]) 21:50, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
:^ It's [[User:Turtwig A|Turtwig A]]! [[User talk:Turtwig A|My talk]] or [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|wiki edits]] 00:46, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

==Speculation section==
Do we really need it? It is all speculation, and I could dismiss half of it. Sure, it's tagged as speculation, but it doesn't make it fine to put in the article. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 11:33, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
:Or it can be moved to an article of its own like the GS remake one. There are evidences of it, somewhat like shipping. [[User:Tc26/Anime Predictions|tc]][[User:Tc26|²₆]][[User talk:Tc26|tc]][[User:Tc26/Sandbox|26]] 11:36, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
::I thought that got deleted because we didn't want an article full of just speculation. I think this kind of thing is best suited for the forums. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 12:15, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

== Sinnoh League Ground ==

It is worth mentioning that in Platinum in Sinnoh League building there is a ground with a red outer side, blue inner side and green-like moving lines (which could reference to R/S/E colors) [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] 21:28, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
:I don't think that's notable enough to be mentioned in the article. I'd say it's just pure coincidence. [[User:Han Ji-Wan|Han Ji-Wan]] 00:22, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

== Prefix ==

From what I've noticed, remakes have some sort of prefix at the begining
 '''Heart'''Gold
 '''Soul'''Silver
 '''Fire'''Red
 '''Leaf'''Green
 Should this be noted? [[User:Pgj1997|Pgj1997]] 16:25, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
:It's not really that interesting. :--[[User:SuperAipom7|SuperAipom7]] ''([[User talk:SuperAipom7|Questions?]])'' 16:26, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
::So? {{unsigned|Pgj1997}}

== So-called evidence ==

A lot of the 'evidence' in the Speculation section seems really unneccesary. What does bringing back ocean currents, an area with a sandstorm, or Ash's party in DP189, have anything to do with a possible remake? I think the section needs trimming. [[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']][[Pikachu (Pokémon)|'''⚡''']] 20:41, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
:^ Ocean currents and sandstorms were introduced in Gen III and Ash used some of his Hoenn Pokémon in that episode. That is why they were added. I'm not saying they are the best piece of evidence, just saying why they were added. --[[User:HoennMaster|Hoenn]][[User talk:HoennMaster|Master]] 20:56, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
::I know, but they are not the same as, for example, Johto being coded in as a trade location, or Dawn traveling to Hoenn after SS024, opening the possibility of an anime reappearance for Hoenn. I guess they would have to re-code the ocean currents and the sandstorms back into the game, so thats fine, but as for DP189, thats from the Gen IV series, if Ash were to recall his Hoenn Pokemon in the Best Wishes series it would be notable. And a hiddden note next to it actually states that he only has three AG Pokemon on his team not including Pikachu (Sceptile, Swellow, Torkoal), Pikachu is what makes it "most of his team". Regarding some other points:
* ''The sixth Gym Leader of Unova, [[Skyla]], is a Flying-type specialist and lives near a rainy area, like [[Winona]] from Hoenn and both are the sixth Gym Leader in their respective regions.''
::Like Winona and Skyla, Pryce, Candice and Brycen are Ice-type gym leaders #7, but it doesnt mean that HeartGold/SoulSilver and Diamond/Pearl will get remakes.
* ''A fossil depicting an {{p|Armaldo}} in the [[Nacrene City]] museum.''
::Dragonite has a far more notable appearance, but it doesnt mean that they will remake FireRed/LeafGreen. And Armaldo is not unobtainable in BW.
* ''A {{tc|Backpacker}} in [[Desert Resort]] tells the player that he comes from Hoenn, and that he doesn't need the [[Go-Goggles]] here unlike in Hoenn.''
* ''In [[Undella Town]] during Summer, a boy tells the player that he and his family comes from Hoenn and visit Undella Town every Summer. A girl also mentions [[Steven Stone]]. ''
:: Random characters may mention Hoenn, but they also mention other regions.
* ''No characters introduced in Generation III are reused in Black and White, unlike other generations which saw characters repeated in these games. [[Cynthia]], [[Looker]], [[Caitlin]], and a former {{tc|Team Rocket Grunt}} were introduced before they appeared in Black and White.''
::This is actually evidence against a remake, Jasmine appeared in DP, and her games got a remake.
* ''The introduction of {{p|Maractus|another}} {{p|Cacnea|cactus}}-{{p|Cacturne|based}} Pokémon.''
:It also introduced another {{p|Bouffalant|bull}}-{{p|Tauros|based}} {{p|Miltank|Pokémon}}, {{p|Drilbur|mole}}-{{p|Diglett|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Baoppu|fire}} {{p|Hihidaruma|ape}}-{{p|Chimchar|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Munna|baku}}-{{p|Drowzee|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Zebraika|horse}}-{{p|Ponyta|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Koromori|bat}}-{{p|Zubat|based}} {{p|Gliscor|Pokémon}}, {{p|Dokkora|Machop}}-{{p|Machop|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Tympole|tadpole}}-{{p|Poliwag|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Nageki|Hit}}{{p|Dageki|mon}}-{{p|Hitmonlee|based}} {{p|Hitmonchan|Pokémon}}, {{p|Cottonee|cotton plant}}-{{p|Hoppip|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Lilligant|feminine, rafflesia}}-{{p|Bellossom|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Archen|fossil prehistoric bird}}-{{p|Aerodactyl|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Zoroark|kitsune}}-{{p|Ninetales|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Foongus|fungi}}-{{p|Shuckle|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Frillish|Jellyfish}}-{{p|Tentacool|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Galvantula|spider}}-{{p|Ariados|based}} Pokémon, {{p|Kumasyun|bear}}-{{p|Teddiursa|based}} Pokémon.
:[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']][[Pikachu (Pokémon)|'''⚡''']] 23:06, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

I trimmed down the article and removed many unnecessary facts. Some of the facts that you removed were worth keeping. You don't hear anyone else mentioning [[Champion]] [[Lance]] of the [[Kanto]] and [[Johto]] regions, do you? And having Dive return as a [[HM]], a large desert, The Riches Family (which is battled in the same way as Winstrates), ocean currents, language on walls (which wasn't present anywhere in [[Sinnoh]]), etc. is all there so that the programmers won't have to make much changes to the engine of Black and White for the remakes of Ruby and Sapphire. The same thing happened in [[Generation IV]]. [[HeartGold and SoulSilver]] were modified heavily off of [[Pokémon Platinum]]'s game engine and there was a good amount of similarities between [[Johto]] and [[Sinnoh]] ([[Jasmine]]'s appearance, [[Gym Leader]] line-up, interaction with trees, etc.). --[[User:Dialgafan1|Dialgafan1]] 00:20, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
:Okay, I have trimmed down it again, and I will list my reasons here. There are just as many Sinnoh Pokémon only available via the Dream World or Poké Transfer as Hoenn ones; therefore, it is meaningless. Nobody mentions Lance, but someone does mention Cynthia; in fact, she appears there. Most likely, nobody mentions Lance because they haven't decided whether he will be Champion at this time. Currents also appeared in FRLG. There is a sandstorm area in Sinnoh too; sure, it is post-Elite Four, but that shouldn't mean anything. You can draw a tonne of parallels between Gym Leaders (7th Gym Ice anyone?), but none of them even come close to hinting a remake. No previous NPCs at all appeared in RS (both Gen I and II NPCs were absent); this is not the case in Black and White, and this is not what happened in DPPt. Yes, because not mentioning Team Aqua and Magma means that they can screw the storyline over and retcon it into another time period over 3 years later (presentably 3 years + the age of TR Grunt's son + 9 months). If they wanted to put Hoenn at the same time as Unova, they would have put Unova in Hoenn's time. Hoenn certainly isn't the only region with a Safari Ball, and they had no issue programming in capture animations for the Apricorn Balls and Sport Ball in HGSS.
:There are a few other things that I still think are non-hints—Go-Goggles mention, The Riches, reference to Hoenn in Undella Town, having two rivals, Armoldo fossil—but I have left them anyway. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 12:05, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

==Should this be added?==

*[[Bianca]] and {{ga|May}}/{{ga|Brendan}} both give out the [[Dowsing MCHN]] and [[HM02]]. Coincidentally, both items are obtained after defeating the second and fifth gyms of the region.

Probably not because it is just coincidental. Just wanted to ask before adding it and getting in trouble. --[[User:Dialgafan1|Dialgafan1]] 17:55, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

== Recent Developments from Junichi Masuda's Twitter Account ==

I'm still learning the ropes here, so I really don't know how to add this new development to the page. This development was covered by Bulbanews, which in turn got its information direct from Masuda's twitter feed. http://bulbanews.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Masuda_replies_to_tweet_regarding_remakes_of_Generation_III_games --[[User:Marilynasol|Marilynasol]] 15:49, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
:Actually, it's already there on the right-hand side of the page. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 00:20, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

== Notable? ==

I noticed that while Pokémon most Pokémon from the original four regions other than Hoenn retain sprites from one of older games (with not so many Pokémon having different sprites, like {{p|Ampharos}}. On other side, some have bigger changes than just pose, like eg. {{p|Phanpy}} or {{p|Donphan}}), many (if not all) of Hoenn Pokémon got their sprites visibly updated in B/W (not just poses but also colors, visible on eg. {{p|Grovyle}}, {{p|Regice}} or {{p|Combusken}}) [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] 19:28, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
:That's likely because the Hoenn Pokémon were the only Pokémon to ''not'' get their sprites updated at all in the 4th gen. Doubt it has anything at all to do with a remake. - [[User:Blazios|Blazios]] [[User Talk:Blazios|talk]] 19:35, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
::Except {{p|Registeel}}. inb4 Nazi Salute. Every other Hoenn mon had one Gen IV sprite, it was the same through DPPtHGSS. Before I got Internet, I though that sprites from R/S are how they should look. Now I know they're not (inb4 Grovyle with {{tt|blue|WTF? At least Treecko and Sceptile have green-a-like leaves, while Grovyle had obvious BLUE leaves}} leaves and Seedot with gray/grey "hat"). [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] 20:19, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
:::Registeel had its sprite edited for European D/P, making it a localisation change to begin with that was eventually universally implemented. It was about as much of an update as Imprison's animation change is (As in not at all). Not that that has anything to do with anything. - [[User:Blazios|Blazios]] [[User Talk:Blazios|talk]] 20:29, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

== Johto? ==

Did May compete contests in Johto? I thought it was in Hoenn. [[User:Nickvang|Nickvang]] 17:28, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
:After the Advanced Generation ended may went on to Johto to continue contests. [[User:Pokemaster97|--Pokemaster]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|97]] 17:34, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
Right? But Johto doesn't even have contests? [[User:Nickvang|Nickvang]] 17:36, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
::It does in the anime, apparently.--[[User:MisterE13|Mister]][[User talk:MisterE13|'''E''']][[Special:Contributions/MisterE13|13]] 17:43, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

== Starters. ==

While Kanto, Johto and Sinnoh have different base stats total for each unevolved starter (apparently 309 for Fire-types, 314 for Water-types and 318 for Grass-types), Hoenn and Unova have all unevolved starters at the same base stat total (310 and 308 respectively). [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] 20:22, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

==Deep Sand==
Black & White has sand tiles (in the Desert Resort and Route 4) where wild Pokémon can be encountered, a mechanic introduced in Gen III but not used in Gen IV. I say this is evidence for Ruby & Sapphire remakes. —'''[[User:Team Magma Zangoose|Team Magma]] [[User talk:Team Magma Zangoose|Zangoose ⚡]]''' 04:57, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
:That's not evidence.. Sorry. [[User:Han Ji-Wan|Han Ji-Wan]] 07:04, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

== suspicous black and white 2 logo? a hint to ruby and sapphire possibly ==

[[User:Mastervictini|Mastervictini]] 21:02, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

I noticed the logo for pokemon black and white looks like it may be hinting to Hoenn,the ice is red and blue for white kyurem and black kyurem but the ice looks more like crystals then ice to me. It is probably just my imagination or a coincidence but the logo looks incredibly suspicous
[[User:Mastervictini|Mastervictini]] 21:02, 29 February 2012 (UTC)