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Talk:Pokémon world in relation to the real world

2025-10-13T07:35:03Z

Kamidio: /* A Thorough Analysis of Kitakami. */ new section

{{talk header
| title = <div style="font-size:85%">Talk:Pokémon world in relation to the real world</div>
| subtitle = This page is designed for discussions about the Pokémon world in relation to the real world page.
| notice = <div style="margin:auto; max-width:700px; font-size:105%">Please resolve any existing content disputes here before making changes to the article. Changes relating to the inclusion or removal of specific influences on Paldea should be discussed here first.</div>
| archives = 1
}}

== Gibraltar reference in Cabo Poco ==

It has already been agreed upon that Gibraltar is a possible reference in the game here: [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Talk:Pok%C3%A9mon_world_in_relation_to_the_real_world/Archive_1#Paldea_section], due to the geographic location and its distinctive shape. While I agree that Algeciras, Cabo de Gata etc. are valid references, it doesn't exclude Gibraltar, as it is in the southern tip of Iberia as well. As for the name of Cabo Poco, by the definition of a cape: a point or extension of land jutting out into water as a peninsula or as a projecting point, Gibraltar is one.

The name of the location, although it is Spanish, is not necessarily the main factor that makes it a reference. If names were the deciding element, Turffield could not reasonably be considered a reference to York.

Many locations in Paldea are composites of various places in Iberia; nothing is necessarily excluding a British territory from being in Paldea. For example, on the map of Kalos, The British territory of the Channel Islands is prominent as a location, although the location featured isn’t entirely based on the Channel islands.

It is also stated in game that Nemona is not from Paldea. It doesn't explicitly state Galar, but she's not exclusively Paldean. As for her house, it is known that Gibraltar's culture is not exclusively British. It is an amalgamation of Spanish, British and other cultures. So for Nemona, who is not a Paldean native having a Spanish/Paldean inspired painting in her house, further supports the location of her side of Cabo Poco as a Gibraltar.

I am not saying Cabo Poco is exclusively Gibraltar, I am saying that Gibraltar is a possible reference for the starting town and there is no reason to remove it. [[User:Pipcrew|Pipcrew]] ([[User talk:Pipcrew|talk]]) 03:23, 9 September 2025 (UTC)

:We know that Paldea is a mix of many places, according to Wikidex, Cabo Poco can be Cadiz, but i prefer the idea that is cadiz, gibraltar and Tarifa, whatever, cabo poco dont give a single clue about its inspiration but i think is cadiz cuz is close to Arven lighthouse, based in Chipiona and inlet grotto based in La caleta coves and beaches in Cadiz [[User:Grizzlyring123|Grizzlyring123]] ([[User talk:Grizzlyring123|talk]]) 04:10, 9 September 2025 (UTC)
:::::I agree. I'd think Cabo Poco is a composite of Cadiz, Gibraltar, and Tarifa. It's not exclusively one real life place, similar to many other locations in Paldea as stated in Paldea's section itself. I don't think it's right to leave out Gibraltar just because it's not Spanish territory as was one of the contentions in one of the edit reversions. Paldea itself is based on Iberia and not just Spain. If inspiration is mainly just by name, as argued in one of the reversions, Porto Marinada would just be Porto, Portugal. As stated in the top of this article "This article contains fan speculation. There is no solid evidence for or against some parts of this article". A lot of this page is speculation already, but Cabo Poco drawing some inspiration from Gibraltar isn't an unreasonable stance considering the above reasons and the reasoning in the earlier thread. [[User:Pipcrew|Pipcrew]] ([[User talk:Pipcrew|talk]]) 07:17, 9 September 2025 (UTC).
::::::Well, i think Gibraltar have sense, i dont know why the people is fighthing that [[User:Grizzlyring123|Grizzlyring123]] ([[User talk:Grizzlyring123|talk]]) 22:19, 9 September 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I'm not sure either. There was already consensus on this years ago. I'll wait a bit to see if more people to chime in before I make the edit. [[User:Pipcrew|Pipcrew]] ([[User talk:Pipcrew|talk]]) 08:49, 10 September 2025 (UTC)
::::::::There was no consensus at the time, nor is there one now. Gibraltar is excluded because there’s no solid reference; if one emerges, I’ll be happy to include it.
::::::::I understand this section allows for a healthy dose of speculation, but claiming that the presence of a Great Ball is a reference to the UK/Gibraltar is far too much of a stretch. Arguing that Nemona might be a UK reference just because her origin is unknown makes little sense, since it’s never stated that she’s from Galar—and we don’t know the player’s origin either. [[User:Namornen|Namornen]] ([[User talk:Namornen|talk]]) 17:26, 18 September 2025 (UTC)
::Paldea isn’t a mix of ''many places''; it’s clearly modeled on Spain and Portugal. The references, including The Pokémon Company’s official collaborations,[https://corporate.pokemon.co.jp/en/topics/detail/129.html The World of Paldea Came to Shima Spain Village] overwhelmingly point that way. There are no known solid references to Andorra, southern France (yes, France has a bit of territory in Iberia), or Gibraltar.” [[User:Namornen|Namornen]] ([[User talk:Namornen|talk]]) 17:26, 18 September 2025 (UTC)

'''Let’s be as analytical as possible: what do we know about Cabo Poco?'''

*It’s a small coastal town, surrounded by numerous hills.
*It sits at the absolute southern tip of the Paldea Peninsula, it is indeed the southernmost point in Paldea.
*All of its toponyms are linguistic nods to cooking measures, Spanish words, and cities in Andalusia: Cabo Poco — from Spanish cabo (“cape; handle”) and poco (“little”); Cucharico — from Spanish cucharita (“teaspoon,” the standard 5 mL cooking measure) and rico (“rich/tasty”); Pueblo Cahíz — from cahíz (an old Spanish dry measure of about 666 liters, ≈18.5 bushels) and {{wp|Cádiz}}; Cuchalaga — from Spanish cuchara (“spoon”) and {{wp|Málaga}}; Dosilla — from Spanish dosis (“dose”), -illa (a Spanish diminutive), and Sevilla ({{wp|Seville}}).
*Cabo Poco surroundings (Cabo Poco path, Cabo Poco lighthouse, Inlet Grotto) are also based on different parts of the province of Cádiz.
*Nemona’s house features a painting of Ash-Greninja in the style of {{wp|Joan Miró}}, a famous Spanish painter.
*Both the player’s house and Nemona’s house are inspired by {{wp|Spanish Colonial Revival architecture}} villas.
*Nemona is also the character who most frequently uses Spanish words in the game, in many versions (English, Italian, German, French, etc), even her first word is in Spanish: "Buenas!".

All of the above lines up with {{wp|Tarifa}}, why?: It’s a small coastal town at the literal southernmost point of the Iberian Peninsula (called {{wp|Punta de Tarifa}}, meaning Tarifa point), It is surrounded by hills, especially to the north, It’s in Cádiz, Andalusia, matching the Cádiz/Andalusian naming pattern and the rest of the many Spanish cultural references. As the image shows, [https://archives.bulbagarden.net/wiki/File:Cabo_Poco_and_Tarifa.png Tarifa and Cabo Poco match perfectly].

Why not Gibraltar?: Gibraltar, while very southern, is not the southernmost tip of the Peninsula—Tarifa is. Gibraltar has a single dominant rock, whereas both Cabo Poco and Tarifa are characterized by multiple hills and rocks to the north. Claims that the item Great Ball references the UK/Gibraltar or that Nemona is from Galar are pretty far-fetched and not supported by the games, those readings feel like stretches rather than healthy evidence. In addition, we have zero known reference to British and Gibraltarian culture. [[User:Namornen|Namornen]] ([[User talk:Namornen|talk]]) 18:01, 18 September 2025 (UTC)

:Hi, thanks for your input. Let's go through each of your contentions.
:*I am not stating it's a mix of many places. I'm stating that Paldea is a mix of Iberia itself. And like many of the places in Paldea, as stated in the main page, Cabo Poco can have influences in multiple locations in Iberia. Yes, Paldea is mainly inspired by Spain and Portugal. I am not contesting that. My position is that Gibraltar, being part of southern Iberia, is not excluded as a possible reference for Cabo Poco. You are saying "There are no known solid references...". This comes directly against what is on the top of the page: "This article contains fan speculation. There is no solid evidence for or against some parts of this article." However, I’m not making a wild speculation; I’m outlining why Gibraltar is a plausible influence to Cabo Poco and I feel that it's valid considering the other entries in the page. That's why I'm not currently arguing in favor of France nor Andorra because I haven't seen their references.
:*Yes, Gibraltar is small in terms of size and coastal. The Campo de Gibraltar is known to be hilly, going inland. Pokemon however does not reproduce a 1:1 match of their regions. Otherwise, for example, the school/Sagrada Familia wouldn't be in Mesagoza/Madrid.
:*Although Gibraltar isn't in the southern tip, it's still quite close to the southern tip of Spain. It is also the most internationally recognizable location in the area. Again, Pokemon doesn't reproduce their regions 1:1.
:*I am not contesting the name. I agree. However, Gibraltar in Spanish is still Gibraltar.
:*Yes, Gibraltar is literally surrounded by Cádiz. The lighthouse in game closely resembles [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europa_Point_Lighthouse]] based on color. Poco path lighthouse has red stripes, while Europa Point also has a red stripe. I am not denying Chipiona Lighthouse as a possible reference. Again, I think there's multiple influences.
:*As I said before, Nemona is not a native to Paldea. And Gibraltarian culture is known to be an amalgamation of cultures. There's no reason why having the painting there discounts Gibraltar. The other painting with the Eevees clearly takes inspiration from van Gogh who is Dutch. The paintings as a whole are not exclusively Spanish in influence. Only the Greninja.
:*I'm not contesting that, I agree. Again, Cabo Poco is a mixture of the things in the area rather than exclusively one city.
:*Sure, but Nemona canonically is not from Paldea. Gibraltarian language/dialect (Llanito) is a mix of Spanish and English and there is a lot of code switching, so your point shouldn't exclude Gibraltar. Nemona code switches from both Spanish and English even if it's light.

:Yes, but again, It seems that you are saying that Cabo Poco is exclusively Tarifa, when I am stating that it's a mix of the cities in the area. Again, Pokemon does not reproduce their regions 1:1 with real life. I am not excluding Tarifa.

:Again, Gibraltar, although it isn't the southern most point, it's incredibly close to Tarifa. Practically right by it if zoomed out to see Iberia or even southern Iberia so it's inclusion is geographically plausible. Pokemon merges a lot of locations together, like other entries in other regions and even in Paldea. Again on the top of the page: "This article contains fan speculation. There is no solid evidence for or against some parts of this article." From the above, I am not arguing anything with no merit. The great ball reference can be speculated a subtle nod, considering that it's a tier 2 pokeball in the very beginning of the game or it can be a coincidence. I'm not saying it's definitive. Nemona herself is a reference to Gibraltarian culture by her code switching between Spanish and English.

:Gibraltar is one of the most internationally famous places by the southernmost tip of Spain. It's referenced symbolically on the Spanish flag as the Pillars of Hercules for example. There is no reason why Gibraltar can't be included as a possible reference due to all of the above reasons. I am not insisting Cabo Poco is exclusively Gibraltar. I am saying Gibraltar is a reasonable possible inspiration.[[User:Pipcrew|Pipcrew]] ([[User talk:Pipcrew|talk]]) 10:54, 19 September 2025 (UTC)
::I appreciate the constructive tone, and believe me—I get part of your point. I’d have zero problem adding Gibraltar; digging up references is something I contribute to a lot here and actually enjoy. That said, I see a few issues:
::*We need to drop the Great Ball reference entirely. A Great Ball isn’t a UK/Gibraltar reference and never has been; honestly, that’s too much of a stretch even for this page. It’s common in many games for the early areas to have hidden Great Balls as an upgrade over the basic Poké Ball. Plus, there are two Great Balls in Cabo Poco—not just the one under the little hill by Nemona’s house, but also one under a palm tree near the player’s house. Cabo Poco's surrounding areas also hide multiple Great Balls.
::*Nemona isn’t from Paldea (and neither are several other Paldea characters, including the player), but none of that points to Gibraltar. She isn’t said to be from Galar, and she doesn’t show any traits that are specifically Gibraltarian or British. There is no “switching between Spanish and English” unique to Nemona: in the English version, the base language is obviously English, and lots of NPCs across the game sprinkle in Spanish words and expressions. That’s not a Nemona thing; it’s regional, because Paldea is a broad nod to Spain. In every version other than the English one, Nemona doesn’t use English at all. So we should discard this—it’s simply incorrect.
::*The only plausible Gibraltar link for Cabo Poco is the geographic similarity (far south of the peninsula, coastal, surrounded by hills). The problem is that it’s so vague it would open the door to including many other places with the same features—Algeciras, the city of Cádiz, La Línea de la Concepción, Cabo de Gata, and plenty more, all of them also very touristy and, in some cases, better known than Gibraltar.
::Tarifa is the one place that matches every single Cabo Poco reference—literally all of them. It’s a small town, it’s coastal, it sits at the very southern tip of Iberia, it’s in Cádiz and Andalusia (lining up with all the Cádiz/Andalusia mentions), the architecture fits the cited Spanish colonial style, and the multiple nods to Spanish culture, etc. So it’s better to leave it at Tarifa for now, and if a more concrete reference turns up to Gibraltar, the city of Cádiz, La Línea de la Concepción, Cabo de Gata, etc., we can add it without any issue. The Cabo Poco notes are already very extensive and well documented right now.
::PS: The Pillars of Hercules of the Spain's flag represent the Strait of Gibraltar (a sea passage between Europe and Africa, the separation between the Mediterranean and the Atlantic), not the city of Gibraltar specifically—they’re different things. [[User:Namornen|Namornen]] ([[User talk:Namornen|talk]]) 11:46, 19 September 2025 (UTC)
:::Thanks for your feedback. But I think I have stated enough for what is stated in the top of the page "This article contains fan speculation.There is no solid evidence for or against some parts of this article." or what a lot of the entries in this page require and it feels like the standard for Gibraltar and Paldea is being set much higher than for other entries on this page. I have never stated Cabo Poco must be Gibraltar. I have stated Cabo Poco may have Gibraltarian influence due to many of the things added up together that I've stated before.
:::*I don't mind cutting the great ball. It's very much a stretch and not definitive.
:::*I've never said she was explicitly from Galar. But the fact that she's not from Paldea and that she code switches is a valid nod to Gibraltarian. As I've mentioned before, Nemona's speech pattern definitely mirrors Gibraltarian code switching. Other languages nor the other NPCs do not discount the code switching in the English version. Her code switching is definitely intentional as a character trait and code switching is a Gibraltarian language trait. The English version of her dialogue matters and still represents how she speaks and her characterization.
:::*Sure Tarifa is in the very south, but it doesn't automatically say it's exclusively Tarifa. Again, Pokemon doesn't make their regions 1:1 copies of real life. As I've said before, places in the game are amalgamations of various locations. I am not saying Cabo Poco is inspired by somewhere far away. Gibraltar is incredibly close by and it stands to reason why Gibraltar is a possible reference. Everything else i've mentioned added up points to Gibraltar as a viable location, not just the location. Gibraltar is very much well known internationally when talking about the area. Not just as a tourist destination but in history, mythology, geography etc and is incredibly iconic. I'm not downplaying the other cities, but Gibraltar definitely is famous outside of Spain.
:::*Yes, I am not discounting Tarifa. I am saying Gibraltar should be included due to the various nods I've detailed yesterday. I've said before, many of the entries in this page has even less scrutiny than what we're going over. For example the page has Unova Route 4, a desert, being the site of the World Trade Center. And due to the note on top, Gibraltar is definitely viable for the page. Even though the notes are detailed, that doesn’t prevent us from mentioning other reasonable possibilities like Gibraltar. And I think Gibraltar is very reasonable due to everything I've said before. And Mezagoza has multiple locations in its entry. It's not unreasonable for other places as well.
:::As for the Pillars, yes both pillars do represent the strait as a whole, but each of them represents the Rock of Gibraltar in the European side and traditionally Jebel Musa in the African side.
:::Another example in the page: the Poco Path Lighthouse and Chipiona Lighthouse. Yes, it's similar in the fact that Chipiona is the tallest. However, due to its color and the shape of the lantern room on the top, as well as the weather vane on both the Europa Point and the Poco Path Lighthouse, the Europa Point Lighthouse should also be viable for that. Again, I am not discounting Chipiona, but including Europa Point as a viable inspiration.[[User:Pipcrew|Pipcrew]] ([[User talk:Pipcrew|talk]]) 12:14, 20 September 2025 (UTC)
::::*How could Nemona’s English–Spanish code-switching be a Gibraltar reference when countless NPCs across Paldea do the same? If it were unique to Nemona, maybe—but it isn’t; plenty of NPCs outside Cabo Poco code-switch in the English version.
::::*I’ll say it again: the only nod from Cabo Poco to Gibraltar is very vague, amounting merely to being far to the south of the peninsula, coastal, and surrounded by hills. That opens the door to plenty of other well-known and relevant places in southern Spain besides Gibraltar, I cited several of them earlier.
::::*Mesagoza is a bad comparison. Mesagoza shows direct, verifiable references to the architecture of all the cities cited in its notes. The only thing Cabo Poco shares with Gibraltar is a geographic resemblance—something many other far-southern Spanish towns and cities also have.
::::*Cabo Poco is currently documented in great detail and matches Tarifa in everything—I repeat, in everything. There’s no need to add another four, five, six or even more new locations that only vaguely line up geographically. [[User:Namornen|Namornen]] ([[User talk:Namornen|talk]]) 13:03, 20 September 2025 (UTC)
:Our whole conversation has been reasoned and cordial. I was about to make a commit and mention Gibraltar as well as La Línea de la Concepción, Cádiz, and Algeciras as possible referemces (collectivelly, since they are quite similar). I’m quite disappointed that you chose to involve moderators instead of using the proper venue to ask for a compromise, which is Talk. [[User:Namornen|Namornen]] ([[User talk:Namornen|talk]]) 09:57, 22 September 2025 (UTC)

[[User:Pipcrew|Pipcrew]], given that the moderators are asking us to reach a compromise on this, something I’ve never opposed, I’m going to put forward a fair proposal, for everyone. If I didn’t want a compromise, why would I have written so many messages discussing this here on Talk? I’ve always been respectful with you. You could have written to me directly if you felt otherwise.

But anyway, getting to the point:

I’ve carefully reread the 2022 discussion, and someone suggested the {{wp|Bay of Gibraltar}} as a general reference. This Bay of Gibraltar includes Algeciras, La Línea de la Concepción, and the city of Gibraltar. I still believe, based on the many references, that Tarifa is quite clearly the only place that matches with Cabo Poco. However, in the spirit of compromise, I’m willing to add the Bay of Gibraltar as another possible reference for Cabo Poco, mentioning Gibraltar, Algeciras, and La Línea de la Concepción. I would also include the city of Cádiz, given the multiple references to Cádiz and the fact that other users have supported its inclusion.

'''In short:''' keep Tarifa highlighted as it is now, but accept other places as possible and valid references, that means the Bay of Gibraltar, which is mostly Algeciras, La Línea de la Concepción and Gibraltar; as well as the city of Cádiz. This proposal is a compromise between what I think, what you think, and what other users have written.

Best regards. [[User:Namornen|Namornen]] ([[User talk:Namornen|talk]]) 12:36, 22 September 2025 (UTC)
----
On the subject of this page's protection. There has been a lot of back-and-forth on what sorts of connections and influences should be included in relation to Paldea and locations within that region. A broader discussion should be had here regarding what connections we can agree to include before further edits on this subject are made. This can be had as part of the above discussion, or split out into its own topic on this page. Thank you. [[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']] 16:54, 22 September 2025 (UTC)

:Do you consider the proposal I outlined above to be fair? I'd welcome your feedback. [[User:Namornen|Namornen]] ([[User talk:Namornen|talk]]) 17:01, 22 September 2025 (UTC)

::Hi, [[User:Namornen|Namornen]]. Yes I am willing to compromise.

::I find your general compromise for the Bay of Gibraltar to be fair, that way the other cities are included, and I am fine with Cádiz's inclusion. I don't mind having Tarifa as the main reference. I'd propose though, that the specific location section could be written as Tarifa/Bay of Gibraltar/Cádiz. That way, Tarifa is the main reference, while the other two is secondary. However, for accuracy, I propose that keeping the administrative divisions section, and country section mentioning Gibraltar, and Gibraltar or United Kingdom respectively as is since that reflects the status of the area more precisely.

::As for the notes section, I'd like to propose keeping the key points for the Gibraltar reference together, since it is based on multiple factors. Specifically, the geographic and visual plausibility (the hill south of Nemona's house, the Lighthouse that looks similar to Europa Point and the location), Nemona's character (code switching mirroring Llanito, not being a Paldea native). Of course, it should be written in a speculative tone, in line with the nature of the page.

::As for the lighthouse section, I propose that it's written as both Chipiona and Europa Point, considering the height of Chipiona, and the color and structure of Europa Point. However for Rota, I don't mind its inclusion, but its structure on top doesn't match Poco Path Lighthouse, considering that Rota has a 2 tier observation deck structure and it's lesser known than the other two.

::As for the discussion on what should be included, because it's a speculation page, I think it should remain flexible while ensuring that there is some plausible connection.[[User:Pipcrew|Pipcrew]] ([[User talk:Pipcrew|talk]]) 02:02, 23 September 2025 (UTC)
:::'''On the Cabo Poco section:'''
:::While I believe secondary locations should appear only in Notes, not in the Locations list, I’m happy to '''compromise''' and include "Tarifa/Bay of Gibraltar/Cádiz", as suggested.
:::However, placing Gibraltar and the United Kingdom on the same footing as the Province of Cádiz and Spain gives them ''undue weight''. The large majority of Cabo Poco references point to the Province of Cádiz and Andalusia; even the Bay of Gibraltar—despite its name—lies +80% within the province of Cádiz. Treating Gibraltar or even the UK as co-equal is not correct. In other regions, when references to another country are secondary, they are omitted from the administrative divisions section. There’s precedent for this: As you noted, Kalos includes overlaps with the United Kingdom without listing it in that section; Paldea is handled the same way, the possible Andorran influences are confined to Notes; the Galar region has also examples of this.
:::While I doubt that Nemona's occasional code-switching is intended as a Llanito nod, since NPCs outside Cabo Poco switch in the same way, I’m again willing to '''compromise''' by noting it as an explained possibility. If you’d like, we can also mention that Cabo Poco's hills may allude to the Rock of Gibraltar, Gibraltar's most recognizable landmark.
:::'''On the lighthouse section:'''
:::On close inspection, Europa Point's lantern differs markedly from the in-game one: it's a completely different style, and it's white, whereas the in-game lantern is red. By contrast, although Faro de Rota has a double gallery, each element is a much closer match; the railings match in color, and the lantern aligns in both shape and color. Even so, I'm happy to '''compromise''' by mentioning Europa Point. Beyond Chipiona, there are other nearby candidates that fit both the location and the red-banded pattern. In any case, I commit to including Europa Point. [[User:Namornen|Namornen]] ([[User talk:Namornen|talk]]) 03:30, 23 September 2025 (UTC)
::::Ok, I agree with your points and I am fine with going forward with that. We can also cut the great ball reference that's currently there, since it's farfetched. Thank you very much for your willingness to come to an agreement.[[User:Pipcrew|Pipcrew]] ([[User talk:Pipcrew|talk]]) 08:00, 23 September 2025 (UTC)
:::::Great, I’ll proceed to prepare a version that incorporates everything we’ve agreed on. I’m sorry if I gave the impression that I wasn’t respecting your suggestions or was editing related items in the meantime; my intention was to find and eventually apply a middle ground once the Talk had concluded. Kind regards. [[User:Namornen|Namornen]] ([[User talk:Namornen|talk]]) 12:04, 23 September 2025 (UTC)

== A Thorough Analysis of Kitakami. ==

Whilst working on a map for my own personal uses, I found something of interest that sent me down a rabbithole. I will begin with my conclusion that Kitakami is not a scrambled mash-up of northern Tohoku, but is instead the area around the city of Kitakami and the nearby Mt. Yakeishi, rotated 90 degrees clockwise, such that West becomes North.

https://i.imgur.com/UZDT71x.png

Going through in order of my notes, with game locations on the left, real world locations on the right. If a place isn't in Iwate Prefecture, I will specify in parenthesis:

'''Mossui Town - Kitakami City'''

Mossui Town lines up with Kitakami City. This city sits at the confluence of the Kitakami and Waga Rivers. Kitakami City also features a summer festival that involves people using masks to dress up as Oni and dance. Also like its fictional counterpart, Kitakami City's economy mainly relies on agriculture. Also, Kitakami City has a museum which contains a number of painted oni masks and educates visitors about the local culture regarding the oni.

'''Kitakami Hall - Keishoji Temple / Esashi Fujiwara no Sato Heritage Park'''

There are a number of temples in the vicinity of the Kitakami area that likely collectively inspired Kitakami Hall, but geographically, the Keishoji temple matches the location of Kitakami Hall the most, as it is positioned further up the Waga River from the center of Kitakami City, nearer to the foothills of the mountains. The Esashi Fujiwara no Sato Heritage Park is aesthetically similar to Kitakami Hall, even if it isn't a geographical match, and is notable for preserving Heian period architecture.

'''Mossfell Confluence - Kitakami River / Waga River'''

The Mossfell Confluence reflects the real world confluence of the Kitakami and Waga Rivers. Similar to what is seen in-game just outside of the playable area, these rivers both feature weirs to control their flow.

'''Apple Hills - Esashi, Oshu, Iwate Prefecture'''

As the current article correctly points out, the center of apple agriculture in this region is the city of Oshu, more specifically the former city of Esashi. This specification is due to there being a specific brand of apple known as the Esashi apple.

'''Fellhorn Gorge - Kinshu Lake, Waga River Valley'''

The Waga River valley has a number of dams, creating reservoirs along its length. Kinshu Lake is one of these reservoirs, created by the Yuda Dam. It has a few islands, and is a popular tourist destination for views of autumn foliage reflected in the lake's waters. Yuda Dam itself might've inspired the waterfall that connects Fellhorn Gorge to Mossfell Confluence. Aesthetically, it might also draw upon the Genbikei Gorge south of Isawa Plain. Genbikei Gorge is a National Place of Scenic Beauty.

'''Wistful Fields(''Wisteria Pond'') - Isawa Plain / Esashi Fujiwara no Sato Heritage Park / Naganuma Futopia Park(''Miyagi Prefecture'')'''

The Isawa Plain is a fan-shaped stretch of relatively flat land that expands out from a valley between two mountains, and is where the city of Oshu sits. This plain is also where the Esashi Fujiwara no Sato Heritage Park is. Besides potentially inspiring the architecture of Kitakami Hall, this park is also popular in all seasons for its varying foliage, one attraction of which are wisteria blooms. Naganuma Futopia Park is in Miyagi Prefecture, south of Iwate. The park is situated on the shore of Lake Naganuma and is known for its Dutch windmill and its flowers.

'''Oni Mountain(Crystal Pool, Infernal Pass) - Mt. Yakeishi(Yakeishi Lake) / Mt. Kurikoma(Lake Showa)'''

I suspect that Oni Mountain is an amalgamation of Mt. Yakeishi and Mt. Kurikoma. Geographically, Mt. Yakeishi seems to bee the inspiration. Kitakami City sits near the base of Mt. Yakeishi. A number of waterfalls can be found in the foothills of this mountain, a few streams feed the rivers that surround it, and Yakeishi Lake sits near the summit of the mountain. Mt. Kurikoma is a volcano that has been active much more recently than Yakeishi, with more frequent seismic activity. Additionally, Lake Showa features highly acidic blue-green water. Both mountains feature onsen that could have inspired the Infernal Pass.

'''Kitakami Wilds - Suzukoya Forest / Goi River / Tensho Falls(''All Akita Prefecture'')'''

Suzukoya Forest is on the opposite side of the mountain from Kitakami City, reflecting the geographical positions of the Kitakami Wilds and Mossui Town. Like the Kitakami Wilds, a stream flows from Mt. Yakeishi and creates a waterfall as it flows away from the mountain, these being the Goi River and Tensho Falls.

'''Gracious Stones - Kabayama Ruins / Yubunezawa Stone Circle / Magi Shrine(''Akita Prefecture'')'''

The Kabayama ruins are a set of stone circles in Kitakami City that date back to the middle Jomon period. Aesthetically, they seem more similar to the Yubunezawa Stone Circle in Takizawa City, Iwate. Geographically, they're situated where Magi Shrine is, on the banks of the Naruse River.

'''Paradise Barrens - Naruse Dam Construction Project(''Akita Prefecture'')'''

Much like how the dust from ongoing construction might've inspired the choice to add a desert to Unova Route 4, I suspect something similar may have been in play here. The Naruse Dam is a trapezoidal dam that has been under construction since 1983, and was still under construction as of the development of Scarlet and Violet, appearing on satellite imagery as a dusty pit filled with stones. Upon completion, it will be the largest dam of its type in Japan. Most of the images I can find of this place resemble large dusty pits in the ground surrounded by walls of stone and rubble. The Paradise Barrens seems like a more naturalisting interpretation of this.

'''Timeless Woods - Magi Mahiru Prefectural Natural Park(''Akita Prefecture'')'''

A forested natural park that sits to the north of Mt. Yakeishi, and west of the Waga River Valley. All of Tohoku is home to the Asiatic Black Bear, so there's not really anything noteworthy about any other forests.

'''Chilling Waterhead - Rokando Cave'''

This one was difficult to place, as due to being volcanoes, Mt. Yakeishi and Mt. Kurikoma are not particularly conducive to the development of limestone caves. I did however find a real world parallel with Rokando Cave. While the location differs from that of Chilling Waterhead, being east of Kitakami City rather than west near the mountains, its appearance is much closer. Like Chilling Waterhead, Rokando Cave features a waterfall. This waterfall is the largest cave waterfall in Japan. It's reasonable to guess that they took this nearby landmark and combined it with Oni Mountain to add a sense of depth to the map.

---

I don't doubt that it drew inspiration from across wider Tohoku. After all, even I had to look outside of Mt. Yakeishi to find the what cave Chilling Waterhead might be referencing. However, I do think that there is an order to the land of Kitakami, and that it is meant to generally resemble the land around the real world Kitakami City. [[User:Kamidio|Kamidio]] ([[User talk:Kamidio|talk]]) 07:35, 13 October 2025 (UTC)

Talk:Pokémon world in relation to the real world/Archive 1

2023-08-30T22:30:44Z

Kamidio: /* Mossui Town and Blueberry Academy */ new section

==Cinnibar==
It's quite possible that Cinnibar is a part of the Sevii Islands, as Midway Island, for instance, is technically a part of the Hawaiian chain. [[User:Evkl|evkl]] 19:26, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)

==Shinnou==
Where did that information come from that Shino is based on Hokkaido? --[[User:Greengiant|Greengiant]] 02:35, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

:Because, you gotta look at the released Corocoro scans from this month ==[[User:Jason|Jade]] 2.56pm, 14 June 2006 (AEST)

::And what do you know about Japanese geography, eh? Could be Hokkaido - but the mountain chain makes me suspect Hokuriku - which is on the west side of the Japanese Alps. - [[User:Zhen Lin|振霖]][[User talk:Zhen Lin|T]] 07:22, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

:::To anyone who wishes to edit this page so as to state that Hokkaido has been confirmed - learn Japanese beforehand and refrain from counting on unofficial web sites. CoroCoro only referred to Shin'ō as an island similar to Hoenn - that leaves Shikoku and Hokkaido. It is plain to see that the map, which has been largely revealed to us, takes the shape of Hokkaido. It is for this that some web sites such as Filb.de claim it to be based on Hokkaido as if it were confirmed.

:::Unlike Zhen Lin, I am absolutely confident in the veracity of Hokkaido. Even so, the correct wording is to be used at the very least until a full map has been obtained. Hoenn was confirmed to have been modeled after Kyūshū not long after Ruby and Sapphire had seen release. That said, Sevii Islands and Orre have thus far remained in the realm of speculation - but at least we have the resources provided by the games. --[[User:Unown Lord|Unown Lord]]

::::What about the orange islands and fiore? [[User:Pokeant|Pokeant]] 14:36, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I mean look at Sinnoh's shape...

Funny thing about orre...(get it?Orrezona((Arizona and Orre)).).

--[[User:Joshuamanimtim2|Snorlax]] 06:18, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

==Indian elephants==
Hm. I was flipping through my FireRed game the other day, and there's lots of Indian elephants mentioned in the Pokedex entries... is this worth mentioning? [[User:TinaTheKirlia|TinaTheKirlia]] 02:04, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
:Pikachu's power? Definately. --[[User:Kyoufu Kawa|Kyoufu Kawa]] 18:25, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

==Noah's ark==
I was watching ''[[EP016|Pokémon Shipwreck]]'' and i noticed that brock tells about noah and the ark. Can we put that somewhere? --[[User:Theryguy512|Theryguy512]] 22:50, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

:: What the heck does that have to do with geography? --[[User:Zeta|Zeta]] 21:58, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

:::It doesn't, it has to do with history of our world [[User:Count Caterpie|Count]] [[User talk:Count Caterpie|Caterpie]] 23:22, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
::::Wrong again. It has to do with the mythology of our world, not history. You shouldn't too much into it, anyway, it was just a cop out. They didn't feel like making a whole new religion for the series, so they stole the most readily available one.--[[User:Goukazaru|Nostalgia]] 14:03, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

== About the real world locations mentioned section... ==

some of these things just have to go. The Fantina dialogue thing doesn't really have anything to do with it since that only happened immediately before the battle, not when you first encounter her at the contest hall or after you beat her. Besides, she could have just been using a fake accent. I mean, [[Blue (Game)|Blue]] was using a french accent when he fought you on the St. Anne, and the last time I checked, he never visited France or anything, never spoke in that accent prior to it, and immediately dropped the accent right after you beat him. Also, i doubt that an Indian elephant should count towards a real world location (maybe real world animal, but definitely not a real world location.)

anyways, thats all for now.

~~Weedle Mchairybug~~

Actually Fantina says something about moving to Hearthrome(spelling might be wrong) City before the battle.I am not sure but I think that backs up that she is from France

~~Starfire~~

Just because she said that she moved to hearthrome city doesn't necessarily mean that she was from France. I mean, if she explicitly stated that she was from France (or canada, even), then yes, that would have merit. But she never really said where she moved from. she only gave a vague mention of another country. I mean, for all we know, she could have just as easily come from the Orange or sevii Islands (I think of the Sevii Islands as an entirely seperate place than an actual region considering how it and Kanto seem to have somewhat of a feud before you arrived that wouldn't be of this scale if it was a region.], or Heck, even Orre (they seemed to imply through a news report in colosseum that it has entirely different regions due to the fact that they mentioned that several regions were attacked by [[Shadow_Pokemon|Abnormal Pokemon]], and since Kanto/Johto/Hoenn never even referenced being attacked by them, that seems to imply that it is an entirely different country in and of itself.).

I mean if you wish, go ahead, but I just want to say that I'm not too sure about that. I mean, if she was explicitly said to have come from france (like the Trainer dex in Pokemon FRLG said about Lt. Surge [I don't count the "Lightning American" thing as evidence that he is American since Some of the Gym Leaders were given similar nicknames even though they really don't have any corollation with each other (Tomboyish Mermaid, Elegant Princess, among others comes to mind [Misty's not a mermaid because she doesn't have a fish tail, she doesn't sit on rocks to comb her hair {her hair is very short, anyways}, and she never really stated that she was a Mermaid or related to them. As for Erika, she never really said that she was related to any royal family.].).].) then, yes, Go on ahead.

But since she never really stated that she was from France (her speaking french doesn't count since 1. she seemed to be faking it since the only time she ACTUALLY spoke french was when you meet up with her, which she drops when she is close to losing, and 2. Even IF she was actually able to speak french, that doesn't mean she is from France. remember, Canada, Jamacia as well as some african countrys speak French as part of their language.), we shouldn't say that she was from France.

~~Weedle_McHairybug~~

== Regarding the map... ==

The map is veerrryyy wrong! It should be like this: http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/1206/japanforonceandforeverdz3.png
Or maybe this is clearer: http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/4092/japanys0.png
Please people, it's a common made mistake, but it isn't that hard to see, is it?

Zig

== Deoxys reference ==

The "North Pole" doesn't necessarily have to be a reference to a real-world location. Every planet has a north and south pole. [[User:Ketsuban|Ketsuban]] 20:02, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

== Antarctica or North Pole? ==

I'm confused. I could have sworn that Deoxys landed in Antarctica, yet this article says it's the North Pole. Could someone clarify? [[User:JirachiWishmaker0802|Jirachi]][[User talk:JirachiWishmaker0802|Wishmaker0802]] 10:59, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

:It's possible different tellings of the franchise have different landing spots for Deoxys. For all we know, had [[The Electric Tale of Pikachu]] reached Hoenn, Deoxys could have crashed in downtown {{wp|Honolulu, Hawaii}} in that telling. --[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 14:35, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

::You know, I think we should eliminate it from the references section, as the term "North pole" doesn't necessarily hint at Antartica. Besides, Antartica isn't even the North Pole, if anything, it's more the exact opposite term. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 00:21, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

==Could someone update the map?==

Almia should be included, as it's attached to Sinnoh. {{unsigned|LynnCreed}}

no almia's place should not be part of the main map because it is just a side game. almia should be in a "side game's map". Maybe that small part will be part of another generation game! do you have absolute proof from the developers of the game? i think not! plus if there is no mention of the national pokedex, then almia is in a different nation. since the main games are one nation, most likely the geography is influenced by japan, there are no separate nations inside what is similar to japanese land. you cannot be too sure until it is 100% proven. plus almia is just a small area of land similar to most things to the world right now. it can be part of the area of northern africa and mediterranean sea. also the games state that they are far away from the main pokemon games. {{unsigned|Pipcrew}}

== Game Systems ==

Would that be a reference to the real world because they are made in the real world? {{unsigned|Midnight Blue}}

== {{wp|Harlan County, Kentucky}} ==

In my sperpetic,Oreburgh reminds me around my home County, Harlan County , also the mines.[[User:LucarioWolf|The Aura Wolf !!!!]] 23:03, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
:Your what?--[[Flash Fire (ability)|freezing]][[Heat Wave (move)|COLD]] ([[user:Cold|page]], [[User talk:Cold|talk]]) 23:04, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
::Lots of places have mines. He means ''perspective''. — [[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|THE TROM]] — 23:06, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
:::There's pretty much no chance that a Japanese game is referring to your home county. There are many more notable mining areas, many in Pennsylvania, for example. I'm sure there's even more in Japan that are more likely. [[User:The Dark Fiddler|The Dark Fiddler]] - [[User talk:The Dark Fiddler|10% Satisfaction Guaranteed!]] 23:07, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
::::True, but then again, the Metal Gear series was a Japanese game (it was made in Japan, and was originally intended to be Japanese exclusive), and yet most of it's locations were anywhere BUT Japan (In fact, the only REAL Japanese references that was in the MG games was Master Miller, Akiba, "Kuwabara, Kuwabara", and the Tsuchinoko from "Snake Eater", which is pretty lacking anyways.). Heck, Sootopolis's geography was inspired by Santorini, Greece. For all we know, Harlan County could have served as a minor inspiration. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 00:26, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
:::As someone from Bullitt County, Kentucky, I'm going to have to say that such a claim is silly. We have had some form of confirmation on every other consistency. Until TPC comes out and says, "Yeah, it's totally our intention that Oreburgh be based on a county in the eastern part of a state in the US that we have almost assuredly never heard of," it's just very erroneous speculation. PS - Go MSU. --[[User:Purimpopoie|Purimpopoie]] 04:38, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

== Map with Almia ==
I've made a map with Almia included. I think it's better to use this one
File:Pokemonworld.png
--Furanty 17:13, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

I think we should keep the almia part blank.It's not even part of the main series obviously. or we could make maps of the main series and the other series separate. spinoff regions does not always relate to the main regions. Almia might be a parallel to india for all we know! plus almia does not look like it is on that part of japan but more on the southern part of sinnoh. {{unsigned|Pipcrew}}
: Note that the game with Almia mentions that Shinoh is nearby (hence the choice to send the Manaphy egg there). --[[User:Deuxhero|Deuxhero]] 23:10, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

== Pepe Toño Macías ==

On latinamerican dub, James' voice actor always names a real world city (mostly latin-american, but some famous world cities are mentioned to) on Team Rocket's Motto, replacing the earlier "y extender nuestro reino hasta las estrellas" with "y extender nuestro reino a [real world city]". Most latin-american capital cities has been named as well as many other important cities like Córdoba (Argentinian seconds), Acapulco or Cancún (Mexican strongest tourist region), Punta del Este (famous uruguayan city), Viña del Mar (Chilean city who host one of the most sponsored music shows on the region), etc.

He is also the main reason to include many differents countries slangs to the whole Team Rocket, mostly mexican ones because of where the dub is translated. {{unsigned|Mephisto}}

== Other Articles? ==

Is there a reason all this information is listed only here, and not on the locations individual pages? Personally I think it is relevant Trivia that, for instance, Mt. Silver is based on Mt. Fuji. [[User:Darien Shields|Darien Shields]] 05:43, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
:It's listed on some of them, mainly the regions. Sure it's interesting trivia, but we don't want the articles to be made of 100% trivia. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 06:21, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
::True, but in some cases wouldn't you say it's relevant? For instance, Ecruteak City is based on Kyoto (not mentioned in Ecruteak's article at the moment), both cities are very old and have a lot of history. Kyoto is famous outside Japan- I'd hazard a guess at it being the second most well known Japanese city. Kyoto's history contributes to Ecruteak's role in the games. Wouldn't you say that's relevant? Violet City being based on Nara is, perhaps, less relevant, and wouldn't be very meaningful to most people using the wiki, so things like that perhaps could be skipped. But I definitely think that at least Mt. Silver/Fuji and Ecruteak/Kyoto are worth mentioning. I want to say something regarding Tokyo too, but the matter seems pretty complicated since there's no single Tokyo analogue.

::Also, just a passing thought, is it worth maybe mentioning the opposite- for places like Pacifidog town- that they are lacking in real world analogue? [[User:Darien Shields|Darien Shields]] 04:59, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

==Regarding Hoenn==

Actually, I've done some of my own research into the correlation between Hoenn and its real-life counterpart and would like to argue that Rustboro is a much better candidate to counterpart with Fukuoka than Rustboro. The region (according to wikipedia which is the source I used) is known for its industrial and steel works, which seems pretty analogous to Rustboro's Devon Corp.

Also, Lavaridge matches up to Ōita much better than Fallabour. Ōita is closer to Beppu, the hotspring region. It's possible that whoever said Lavaridge was Aso got the two Hoenn Cities mixed up, because looking at the map of Kyushu, they're the other way around.

Kagoshima could possibly be Lilycove, as it's a bay city with a small round island in the port, which could be analogous to Mt. Pyre.

I'm not sure who wrote up the Hoenn cities part of the article, but I'd definitely argue that they didn't look closely enough at a map of Kyushu or of Hoenn, as some of them match up to other cities much better than the ones listed. Sorry to seem like a jerk, but I've done a LOT of reading online about this and it's too bad the Bulba article isn't better. I'll edit the article eventually, I'd just like a reply here first.
[[User:AutumnRain|AutumnRain]] 18:12, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
:Sure, show us what you got. And I completely agree... Rustboro is a much better candidate than Rustboro ;) You may want to doublecheck that :D —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 08:18, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

==Table Overload==
This page is mostly composed of tables, tables, and ''more'' tables. We need some actual writing in here, as well as images, or else I feel this article doesn't deserve its status as a Featured Article. It's informative, but the way it's presented simply doesn't share that information in a productive way. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 15:15, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
:What else would you have us add? If that's all we have, it's kinda hard to add more. And it doesn't look good as a bunch of bullet points making up a whole page. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 18:39, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
::This is just an idea, but how about some free use pictures of the real-life landmarks, like {{wp|Kinkaku-ji}} (Brass Tower), {{wp|Ginkaku-ji}} (Tin tower), {{wp|Mount Fuji}} (Mt. Silver), etc.? It would be neat to see, especially if we had them side-by-side with game screenshots (or Midori Harada art? ...or anime screenshots, that would probably be better) of the Pokemon world locations. [[User:Umeko|梅子]][[User talk:Umeko|❄]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|❅]] 18:54, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
:::That would work, but we'd have to find all of the real world pictures that would look like the Harada art though. We wouldn't have to have a picture for every location though, so whatever Harada art we have we should try to find something for it. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 19:07, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
::::Well, as I edited in, we could also use anime screenshots instead of restricting ourselves to what few Harada location art there is. For example, we could do...
::::: with {{wp|File:Tokyo_Shinjuku_City_20070317.jpg|this}}
::::...Though of course all city skylines look pretty much the same, so that wouldn't be an ideal example. Just pointing out that we could go with anime art too. :P [[User:Umeko|梅子]][[User talk:Umeko|❄]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|❅]] 22:19, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
:::::I would have real information explaining ''why'' these different regions and cities are counterparts to real-world areas. All of the sections simply say "x is based off x". ''Why'' are they based off those areas? Was it stated in an interview, or is there a mountain of evidence that cannot be swept aside as coincidence? Some reasoning would really help this article, and without it the whole page just seems to lack any real information, which is why I don't feel it should be Featured. I also agree with Umeko's suggestion for side-by-side comparison images, but we should definitely limit them to things that, without a doubt, can be visually-comparable. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 03:02, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
::::::I do hope you saw the {{fan speculation}}
::::::at the top of the page. That is why there isn't that much evidence stated. A lot of the things were put up there, and people agreed on it. That's about how fan speculation pages work. But I do agree, we need something more. Unfortunately, that'll be hard to do, since most of it ''is'' speculation. A lot of it though, is where things are located in Japan and the anime, as seen on that map at the top of the page. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 05:09, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
:::::::Of course I noticed. Despite that (or perhaps even ''because'' of it) more information is needed to support these claims. People like knowing ''why'' things are the way they are, not just that they are. Considering the mantle of "fan speculation" is already applied to this article, then we should feel free to add more of it without worry. Now, there should be standards. There should be no doubt that there are correlations between one thing and another, and no "logical" jumps or rationalizations. The towers have the same appearance, purpose, and general history as real-world counterparts... So that could easily be considered a fact and should be elaborated on a bit. Where Orre is, for example, should have options and reasons for and against each one. This article can definitely be improved, but how is something we need to figure out. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 05:32, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

==Comments==
Should the sections in the various tables marked for comments be for notes on the real-world counterparts, as is currently done, or should we only write comments if there's some similarity other than geography to note between the Pokémon world and real world? [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 13:40, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
:These comments do talk about similarities. Pallet is the player's hometown, Vermilion has a large harbor, Celadon and Saffron are big cities, Cinnabar has a volcano... The comments are for links between the Pokémon world and the real world. --[[User:ElectAbuzzzz|'''electAbuzz''']][[User talk:ElectAbuzzzz|'''z''']][[Special:Contributions/ElectAbuzzzz|'''z''']] 14:05, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
::Some of them aren't, like the comment for Dewford Town which only states that the real-world basis used to belong to Korea. (That one, at least, just sounds like Japan-Korea politics) [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 14:08, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

== Oblivia ==

Anyone got a clue where around real world Japan, Oblivia lies?
[[File:Oblivia artwork.png]]
Can't see any islands that look like it or anything O: All the islands are so small...{{unsigned|Saiph charon}}
:Might not be an area of Japan. Spin off game regions don't always relate to the other regions. --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] 19:00, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Milonda Island appears to be based off of Dogo Island.
Rainbow Island seems to be based off of a combination of Nishino and Nakano Islands.
Drop island appears to be based off of Chiburi Island.
They all are part of the Oki Islands. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Oki_Islands.png

Sopiana Island is without a doubt based off of Ulleungdo Island. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulleungdo

Thundercloud and Shikulele Island appear to be loosely based off of the Liancourt rocks. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liancourt_Rocks

All the islands mentioned are found in the sea of Japan north of Chugoku.--[[User:flamin entei|flamin entei]] 19:37, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

:'Liancourt' is what the sailors of the French ship Liancourt named the islands in 1849. There is an older and correct name called Dokdo which was derived from Usando, a name used since AD 512 .[[User:Kimichael4317|Kimichael4317]] ([[User talk:Kimichael4317|talk]]) 05:57, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

== I dont think this is one of the best bulbapedia articles ==

Ive seen dozens more "Other applications of real-world locations" in the anime and that needs to be added.--[[User:Solidstate|Solid!]] 05:06, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
:So, um, go for it? —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 05:28, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
Yeah Im getting there lol.Going to take a while to remember and view all of them that I know of.
Im just very surprised Im the first one to put one in that has appeared in the tv anime series.
--[[User:Solidstate|Solid!]] 05:30, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

== Regice ==

In pokemon Emerald, Regice's pokedex entry mentions Antartic ice. --[[User:Pkmn master|pkmn master]] 11:12, 14 Febuary 2010 (UTC)

== Map of Side Games ==

I know that the side games are more difficult to place, as far as true geographic regions go (if they even exist), but in the article itself, it mentions Orre as "[bearing] striking resemblance to the Gunma Prefecture of Japan in shape, which would place Orre north of Kanto and Johto." I think this is relevant to include on ''a'' map, although it doesn't have to be the one at the top of the page.--[[User:Lamb|Lamb]]''([[User talk:Lamb|talk]])'' 21:29, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

we should keep a map of the side games separate from the map with the main games. side games are not really canon with the main games. {{unsigned|Pipcrew}}
:The Pokemon Ranger series of games are canon, Colosseum games, as well, however, seeing how that game contained Manaphy, which needed to be downloaded into DP, and the fact that they have direct connectivity to the main games. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 02:05, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
::Just because they're canon (which is, I believe, debatable) doesn't mean they all correspond to locations in Japan like the others. And if they don't relate to each other, making a map for them's gonna be pretty hard. On a side note, I think the Orre connections are quite a stretch, and there should at least be comparisons between Orre locations and Arizona alongside the comparisons to Japan. --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] 02:25, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

:::lets just separate the maps then. the region on where the side game's area is on might be filled in by a later generation's region, the side game's region might not be in japan because they look like most other areas in the real world and the side region is not part of the main games. even though you can get manaphy in pokemon ranger does not mean that that game is canon. it just means that you can get manaphy from that game. Question- how does almia fit next to sinnoh? almia looks nothing like the tail of hokkaido which is sinnoh's real world counterpart. Almia does not look like it is in the south part of sinnoh either. If sinnoh is the pokemon counterpart of hokkaido shouldn't the center of almia be filled with land? {{unsigned|Pipcrew}}

::::If they weren't canon, then there wouldn't be any connectivity, period. Absolutely no ties to the main games whatsoever is the very definition of not canon. That, as well as not even being made by the same people, period. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 12:34, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

:::::sorry to give you an example of another franchise but what about the naruto anime? all of it's filler arcs are noncanon and it has something to do with the characters. plus it is made by the same company who does the rest of the anime. {{unsigned|Pipcrew}}

==Orre Section Revamp==
I'm sorry, but the section on Orre DEFINITELY needs work. so far it has only three locations listed, and those are listed with the presupposition that Orre is in fact based on a region of Japan. I did some research into Arizona and the surrounding area and found some more noticeable parallels.

Phenac City is obviously based on Phoenix, Arizona, for the reasons listed in the article already.

Mt. Battle could be based on Humphreys Peak, the highest point in Arizona. While it's not a volcano like Mt. Battle, neither is the Gunma Prefecture of Japan a desert. That said, Humphreys Peak also lands in the right place relative to other locations.

Pyrite Town could be based on Yuma, Arizona, which formerly housed a large prison facility (which fits in with both the Pyrite Town jail and the high crime rate in that section of Orre).

Agate Village was hard to find, but I eventually settled on the little town of Oatman, Arizona. Oatman lies right along Route 66, and, as with many towns along that route, has seen better days. While it doesn't appear as fertile as Agate Village, I thought the history of this mountain town fit in with the fact that the population of Agate Village is mostly elderly, with the young moving to the cities instead.

In terms of locations from XD, I widened my search to include locations not specifically in Arizona. I placed Gateon Port at the well-known city of San Diego, California.

Citadark Isle seems to correspond with Isla Guadelupe, a volcanic island off the coast of Baja California.

I don't know how this should be incorporated into the article, but I do believe at least some of this information needs to go there. Any help would be greatly appreciated. --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] 15:12, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, Gunma Prefecture isn't a desert, but then again, Floaroma Town isn't a flowerfield in real life, it is a desert. Anyways, I also don't recall Arizona being so barren that animals are even scarcer than water (which in Orre, apparently Pokémon actually are that scarce, at least in Colosseum.). I do doubt that it's near the Gunma Prefecture, but I also doubt that its supposed to be Arizona. Also, even going beyond Arizona, most of the locations don't match up. Citadark Island is on the opposite side of the real life location. Not to mention that San Diego isn't anywhere near that location. Maybe the old Colosseum map might have been based off of Arizona, but going by XD, it's not based off of Arizona or even the Southwestern United States/Mexican area, for that matter. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 22:51, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

::My bad about XD locations; I don't have the game, so it's hard to verify where they go (especially based on the few low quality Orre maps you can find). But nonetheless, the Orre section needs to change or be removed. The similarities listed are a real stretch (Outskirt Stand based on an archaeological site? I doubt it.), and besides, I thought Fiore's section was removed because it was a side game location. Should the same be done for Orre, perhaps with Phenac City moved to the section on non-Japanese influences? --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] 15:03, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

:: there are no major deserts in japan (if you count the tottori sand dunes then yes but they are in the south of japan). if the fiore section is removed because it was a side game then we should remove orre. plus the state of arizona is not bordered by an ocean or something large like that water area near gateon port {{unsigned|Pipcrew}}

:::...What about the Gulf of California? It doesn't have to be shaped EXACTLY like the state, it can also include nearby regions. [[User:Taknamay|Taknamay]] 14:14, 7 May 2011 (UTC)

::::Made a comparison pic to demonstrate Taknamay's point http://i.imgur.com/57Wlq9J.png.
::::That terrain matches almost exactly. And they said Phoenix, Arizona was the inspiration, so seems like a pretty open and shut case to me. Since some of the other regions like Almia have a comparison image, we could use that one. Unfortunately I can't upload images yet so someone else would have to do it --[[User:Foxsong|Foxsong]] ([[User talk:Foxsong|talk]]) 05:46, 26 January 2017 (UTC)

:::::Sorry for necro-posting here, but I think Foxsong's comparison image is correct, and it's about time Orre gets a proper update. The section currently up is assuming Mt. Battle is to the north, which would put the sea to the west, but when you flip Orre's map counter-clockwise, leaving Pheonix in the vicinity of Phenac, it actually matches up nearly perfectly with a section of Arizona and Mexico. Gateon Port is placed near Fondeport in San Felipe, Pyrite town is right between Los Vidrios (a road originally used for smuggling) and Sonoyta, an old mining town commonly used to cross the border illegally. Agate Village lands right around Yuma (A bustling desert town that used it's placement on the river to create vast farmland. Yuma was also originally inhabited for thousands of years by Native Americans, whose descendants still live in a reservation in Yuma, possibly inspiration for the elders of Agate. It's also right along the outskirts of Kofa Wildlife Refuge, where Mt. Battle lands, which has no volcanoes, but is a generally mountainous area. Also worth noting is that this places the Outskirt stand right around Black Canyon City, a small town north of Phoenix that was once a popular stop along the railway from Pheonix to Prescott. Furthermore, the home of 2 of the first inhabitants still stands as ruins that don't look unlike the rubble behind the train. [[User:PartyTom|PartyTom]] ([[User talk:PartyTom|talk]]) 17:23, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

::::::That's all assuming Orre is supposed to be 1:1 to the exact locations around the Gulf of California rotated clockwise, which isn't necessarily the case, especially since Orre looked completely different in Colosseum. Most of this article is speculation anyway so I don't really have any problem with your ideas besides Yuma and Kofa Wildlife Refuge, as Flagstaff and Agate are WAY more similar than Yuma and Agate, and I'm not sure what Kofa has anything to do with Mt. Battle besides being generally mountainous and in the same location (again, assuming that Orre is 1:1 to the Gulf of California rotated clockwise, when the body of water wasn't even present in Colosseum, the game those areas were originally made for). --[[User:Poliwhirl|Poliwhirl]] ([[User talk:Poliwhirl|talk]]) 09:41, 7 December 2022 (UTC), edited 10:35, 7 December 2022 (UTC)
:::::::I'd avoid being so literal with the locations considering the differences between the two games, and Genius Sonority only stating that Orre was inspired by Phoenix without mentioning any surrounding areas or any basis on geography. {{unsigned|Poliwhirl}}
::::::::I would argue that Orre's differences between games can be chalked up to a simple revision of the map. The first game reflected the same section of Arizona, still pretty directly, and it seems all XD did was expand that section but kind of stretched the landmarks across it, if that makes sense. This image can show pretty clearly what I mean. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ENmkUubU0AARXFa?format=jpg&name=large
:::::::::Ignore the quote, it's just the only good image I could find without making one atm. That said, yeah, I think you're correct about not taking locations as their literal physical counterpart, but I kind of wrote everything one night just to finally see it get touched up. Appreciate the feedback, and improvements. [[User:PartyTom|PartyTom]] ([[User talk:PartyTom|talk]]) 10:30, 4 March 2023 (UTC)
:::::::::::The picture is kind of misleading since I think the first map is an elevation map, where green denotes a lower elevation, while in the second map the green part denotes forests. Similar maps of Arizona show green areas north and east of Phoenix, not southwest. Though either way, it doesn't line up with Orre. --[[User:Poliwhirl|Poliwhirl]] ([[User talk:Poliwhirl|talk]]) 04:50, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

==New Image==
I like how it's been aligned so the regions look more like they do in the games, but technically Hoenn's box should be a lot bigger. That southwestern island chain includes such places as Naha (the inspiration for Ever Grande City), Yonaguni (the inspiration for the Sealed Chamber), and Yaebishi (the inspiration for Mirage Island). In other words, Game Freak curled that island chain around to compress the region into a smaller space, likely for gameplay reasons. Also, it would tickle me pink for the map to include the Sevii Islands, although that might be trickier. --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] 14:10, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

:sorry i couldn't find a good map like the one i had with yonaguni, yaebishi the kuril islands and sakhalin. the colors are for the third games in the generation they were first seen in (in Japan). for johto i made it into suicune's thing on it's head. the sevii islands are red for fire red. if you want me to change the colors or fix anything, please ask. {{unsigned|Pipcrew}}
::First of all, you should sign your comments with four tildes (~). But in regards to the map, it's wonderful! I'm not too enthralled with the color selection (a bit dull; I would have gone with green for Kanto, yellow for Johto, red for Hoenn, and purple for Sinnoh, as is used in the new HGSS Pokédex guide) but with the level of inclusion contained within this map I'm willing to let that pass. Great job! --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] 15:13, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
:::Bulbapedia uses distinct color templates, such as {{template|kanto color}}, for regional coloring. If an official guide uses other colors though... maybe we should look at changing them. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 01:28, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
::::ok i'll change them[[User:Pipcrew|Pipcrew]] 03:47, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
:::::No, you won't. For one thing, the templates /should/ be protected. For another, changes of this nature need to go through the Editorial Board. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 10:42, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
but i created the original image. it says in the file history [[User:Pipcrew|Pipcrew]] 23:48, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
:And? Doesn't mean anything about the templates. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 21:11, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
::then what should i do? should i delete the map? [[User:Pipcrew|Pipcrew]] 04:10, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

==Ecruteak Dance Theater==
A rocket grunt mentions hula dancing...reference to Hawaii possibly? He tells this to the Kimono Girl --User:xaigon_paladin 1:12, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
:Yeah. Because it was made by the Hawaiians (technically settlers from Polynesia or something). Adding. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 20:41, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

== Isshu's Location ==

Isshu has been said to be far away from the other regions, and screenshots of Black and White show various landmarks similar to what are found in San Francisco (Such as the Golden Gate Bridge). I feel this should be mentioned. {{unsigned|Tveye}}
:I've heard New York and I've heard Hong Kong. Let's leave it at "some place really far away that might not be Japan" until the games are released and we can make more informed choices. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 20:43, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

== propaganda. ==
Tsushima was an island of Korea before 1945; the old name is ''Daemado''.

Tsushima doesn't belong to Korea before 1945. Bulbapedia becomes the place of dispatch of propaganda. [[User:Sawamular101|Sawamular101]] 08:49, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
:I think it can be chalked up to being an honest mistake. All you had to do was remove it, there was no need to come here and accuse us of spreading propaganda. [[User:Umeko|梅子]][[User talk:Umeko|❀]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|✿]] 09:02, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

I am terribly disappointed. It is to not only the guess but also malignant propaganda. [[User:Sawamular101|Sawamular101]] 09:05, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
:Calm down, dude. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 09:18, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
:We don't need any nationalist crap here. Correct the mistake yourself or politely point it out.—[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 01:28, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

He is still doing propaganda. [[User:Sawamular101|Sawamular101]] 07:08, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

== Numbers Stations ==

Do you guys think that we should include in the Ruins of Alph location info that the "Mysterious Transmission" is based on the real world's "Numbers Stations"? These short wave radios are used by spies. http://www.archive.org/details/ird059 --[[User:Kambash|Kambash]] 20:17, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

== Pokémon world(Original Japanese version) in relation to the real world. ==

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Ponyta_(Pok%C3%A9mon)
The change in Pokedex entry is interesting. The explanation of Tokyo Tower exists in a Japanese version. [[User:Sawamular101|Sawamular101]] 16:04, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

このわざをみんなはだいもんじやきとよんでいるがそりゃまちがいだ！ほんばきょうとではだいもんじとかおくりびと　よんでいるのだ！

[[Blaine]] refers {{wp|kyoto}}(Japanese city) in Generation III. It is convinced that it is erased in the non-Japanese version because it is not described in BULBAPEDIA. [[User:Sawamular101|Sawamular101]] 05:23, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

== some edits ==

As we are following Revised Hepburn as a standard for romanizations in listing the locations, "Oshima" (under Sevii Islands, Knot Island, prefecture) should be spelled "Ōshima", "Nakoudojima" (under Sevii Islands, Memorial Pillar, specific location) should be "Nakōdojima", and "Meiji no Mori Minoo" (under Johto, National Park, specific location) should be "Meiji no Mori Minō".

There is also "Chubu" (right under Johto) in stead of "Chūbu", "Honshu" (right under Hoenn) in stead of "Honshū", and "Hokkaido" (right under Sinnoh) in stead of "Hokkaidō", as well as a lot of other non-Hepburn romanizations in the comment section (Tokyo, Osaka, Kyoto, Oshima, Hokkaido, etc.) alongside the Hepburn ones (Kantō, Tōkaidō, Kyūshū, Hōryū-ji, etc.). I guess non-Hepburn is acceptable, as it is standard in everyday English use (mainly important cities like Tokyo, Osaka and Kyoto), but I think it would probably be better to choose either one.

'''Japanese Wikipedia pages to add:'''

Chichijima (Sevii Islands, Fortune Island): http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E7%88%B6%E5%B3%B6%E5%88%97%E5%B3%B6

Hahajima (Sevii Islands, Quest Island): http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E6%AF%8D%E5%B3%B6%E5%88%97%E5%B3%B6

Yaebishi (Hoenn, Mirage Island): http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%85%AB%E9%87%8D%E5%B9%B2%E7%80%AC

'''English Wikipedia pages to add:'''

Meiji no Mori Minō Quasi-National Park (Johto, National Park): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meiji_no_Mori_Min%C5%8D_Quasi-National_Park

Cape Nosappu (Sinnoh, Vista Lighthouse): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cape_Nosappu

If you are still reading this, thank you for hearing me out. --[[User:Spenvdm|Spenvdm]] 12:10, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

== The motif of Isshu is New York. ==

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ds/interview/irbj/vol1/index2.html
"Junichi Masuda" is insisted on that the motif of Isshu is New York. [[User:Sawamular101|Sawamular101]] 02:04, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

== "Go West Young Meowth" refereence? ==

He was in California in the [[EP070|episode]]. {{unsigned|444Zekrom}}
:That's already noted in the episode. Besides, it really wouldn't be possible for them to travel from the Kanto Region to Hollywood, California with a van, and absolutely no reference to a plane in sight (since it was heavily implied that they took a van to get there.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 09:03, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

== How are these real world locations? ==

"In A Bite to Remember, Jessie says that Albert Einstein created the light bulb. Max corrects her, saying that Thomas Edison was the creator."

"A Rocket Grunt mentions the hula dance to a Kimono Girl while in the Ecruteak dance theater"

Ive never heard of any locations named :Albert Einstein,Thomas Edison, kimono or hula.
It seems the person who added this seems to be mistaken with pokemon in relation to real world things.
I thought this was meant to include reference to PLACES!--[[User:Solidstate|Solid!]] 08:05, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
:The article isn't limited to locations, but those points were in the wrong section. I created a new section for people and cultures. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 07:58, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
::The hula dance point disappeared. And I'm leaving for school now, so I can't do it. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 12:37, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

== Side regions ==

The section is blank! Hardly fitting of a featured article. I propose noting Almia (covered above a few times) and Orre (expliclty confirmed, see the citation in the [[Orre]] article. --[[User:Deuxhero|Deuxhero]] 23:12, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

== Isshu ==
Not wanting to add more information as there have been issues about its origin on other pages (no pun intended). However, I would like to point out that the note about Hiun City should be in the comments column, not shoved into the specific location column like it currently is. Could an admin fix that? --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] 00:43, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

== Isshu seems not to exist in North American continent. ==

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Talk:Isshu#New_Map_of_isshu.
The game freak seems to have created the continent of fictitious. [[User:Sawamular101|Sawamular101]] 11:43, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
:Anime=/=Games--[[User:Pokelova|''Poké'']][[User talk:Pokelova|lova!]] 19:24, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

The United Tower is based in United States Headquarters in New York --[[User:Angelical Master Aqua|Angelical Master Aqua]] 22:45, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
:Do you have anything to back that up, or is it just baseless speculation? --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] [[User talk:AndyPKMN|(talk)]] 23:15, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

==Capitilization error in title==

One would think that a featured article would have correct capitilization in the title. In the title the letters begin with lowercase letters when they should be uppercase. This is a basic rule of writing. I suggest this to be moved to so that the title is properly capitilized. If no one responds otherwise I'll move it to a correctly capitilized page. [[User:Pokemaster97|--Pokemaster]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|97]] 23:10, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
:I guess sence no one responded it's okay to move? [[User:Pokemaster97|--Pokemaster]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|97]] 23:57, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
::Okay I'm moving the article to '''Pokémon World In Relation To The Real World.''' Any objections please let me know withen five minutes. [[User:Pokemaster97|--Pokemaster]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|97]] 00:07, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Not only is it not acceptable to move something just because someone hasn't "answered", it also looks very retarded. Unless it's something very specific, it Does Not Get Written Like This Because It Looks Wrong. —♥ [[User:Jello|Jello]][[User Talk:Jello|talk]] 00:26, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::::Besides, I also think you were acting too hasty anyway, you could have contacted one of the administrators first since it would have been easier to avoid making a simple mistake like this. -[[User:Tyler53841|Tyler53841]] 00:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
:::::Well I'm sorry I thought that since no one had anwsered that it was okay. I posted three times and someone could have said something instead of ignoring my comments. [[User:Pokemaster97|--Pokemaster]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|97]] 00:40, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::::::No, your method of doing this was completely inappropriate. You don't tell people to respond within 5 minutes. You wait until at least one person responds. That's the whole point of a discussion. You can't have a discussion with yourself. I can't speak for the rest, but I can't sit around here all day watching all the talk pages. I had only noticed this discussion here after I realized what was done. —♥ [[User:Jello|Jello]][[User Talk:Jello|talk]] 00:44, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
:::::::Well I sencerly apologize for the way I handled the situation and I will not do it again in the future. I just want to help edit and I'm sorry if I made more work for you on here. I don't want to look "retarded" again. [[User:Pokemaster97|--Pokemaster]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|97]] 00:47, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::::::::Don't worry about it. Also, I didn't call you retarded, I know my choice of words there was inappropriate but that wasn't directed at you. I apologize if I offended you. —♥ [[User:Jello|Jello]][[User Talk:Jello|talk]] 00:50, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::::::::It's okay you are just doing your job as admin. Thank you for letting me know about my mistake. [[User:Pokemaster97|--Pokemaster]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|97]] 00:51, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

==Anyone think this is important??==
as no one replied to my comment before, I'm putting it again here. I'm almost 100% sure that it's a parallel world! Should we put this in the article as a possibility?--[[User:Juzey|Juzey]][[Shaymin (Pokémon)|!!]] ''([[User talk:Juzey|Talk]])'' 09:50, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
:I'll put it in now. --[[User:Juzey|Juzey]][[Shaymin (Pokémon)|!!]] ''([[User talk:Juzey|Talk]])'' 16:29, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
::What are you talking about? Are you saying the Pokémon World is a parallel to our world... ? --[[User:Han Ji-Wan|Han Ji-Wan]] 18:14, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
:::Yeah. --[[User:Juzey|Juzey]][[Shaymin (Pokémon)|!!]] ''([[User talk:Juzey|Talk]])'' 13:06, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
::::I wouldn't say it's a parallel to our world, just yet. Have we seen a region based on any part of Africa, Australia, Europe, South America? No. So, it's not parallel enough. I would say the Pokemon world is based on our world. :] --[[User:Han Ji-Wan|Han Ji-Wan]] 16:53, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
:::::Just because we haven't seen them doesn't mean they aren't there! --[[User:Juzey|Juzey]][[Shaymin (Pokémon)|!!]] ''([[User talk:Juzey|Talk]])'' 17:54, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

== Official source. Inspiration origin of Unova. ==

Sootopolis City 屋久島 Yakushima 鹿児島県 Kagoshima
The landscape of Sootopolis City is based on Santorini, Greece.

There is such a description. I similarly reflect an official source.

* Skyarrow Bridge draws inspiration from {{wp|Brooklyn Bridge}} and {{wp|Rainbow Bridge (Tokyo)|Rainbow Bridge}}.
* Tubeline Bridge draws inspiration from the {{wp|Forth Bridge}}.
* Village Bridge draws inspiration from the old Italian bridge.
* Entralink draws inspiration from the {{wp|Tokyo Imperial Palace}}.

The source is Nintendo Dream vol.204. [[User:Sawamular101|Sawamular101]] 02:53, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

== Fiore ==

My proposal: Fiore could be the northern part of the Shimokita Peninsula (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shimokita_Peninsula)

* Rural.
* Closest to Sinnoh (Hokkaido).
* The geography fits very well.

[[User:KameXros|KameXros]] 17:09, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

== Real-world locations mentioned in the Anime: from dub or original? ==

It seems to me that some of the real-world locations mentioned in the Anime would clearly only be from the Dub. I think it's important to note this in the article somehow. [[User:Chaosakita|Chaosakita]] 07:21, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

== Hoenn ==

Having lived in Kyushu for about a year, I have gone around and visited some of the approximate locations that correlate with Hoenn. It would seem that the Kurokawa onsen town is correct for Lavaridge. It's southwest, at the base of Mt. Chimney, as Kurokawa Onsen is northwest in Kyushu.

Beppu seems to be the best match for Fallarbor town. The whole town is rife with geothermal activity with steam rising up all over the urban area. While it has hot springs like Aso town, there are also other forms of geothermal activity such as steam vents. Which I would assume the crater in Fallarbor is supposed to represent.

In terms of Meteor Falls, it appears that it isn't just one source of inspiration, but many. Oita prefecture is famous for both waterfalls and limestone caves. As inspiration for the cave setting, I wouldn't be surprised if it was Furen Cave. [http://www.furenshonyudo.jp/] So it would seem that Meteor Falls is a combination of both the waterfalls and limestone caves found in the Oita prefecture.

On a final note, it looks like Sootopolis City is shaped more like Yakushima Island. Ever Grande city is currently compared to Yakushima, but it seems inaccurate. As Yakushima is circular, and closer in relation to Sootopolis than Iwojima. Ever Grande city is shaped more like Okinawa Island when comparing the two. Just my two cents on what might need correction in the Hoenn section. And I'd be happy to know what everyone else thinks. ([[User:MauvilleGrovyle|MauvilleGrovyle]] ([[User talk:MauvilleGrovyle|talk]]) 02:25, 13 July 2012 (UTC))

== Fortree City: Kobayashi City, Miyazaki Prefecture? ==

Just flipping through Wikipedia and apparently there's an legend in the town involving the Suki Suspension Bridge, and since Fortree is big into their bridges, could be a match? If nobody has any significant objections I'll add it in. [[User:Rinne|Rinne]] ([[User talk:Rinne|talk]]) 16:19, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

== A Pokémon Center in Pokémon BW/B2W2 ==

In the Pokémon Black/White/Black2/White2 game, a [[:wikipedia:globe|globe]] is located on the second floor of any [[Pokémon Center]]s, it shows the real world, not the Pokemon world.

-- [[User:Love Krittaya|Love Krittaya]] ([[User talk:Love Krittaya|talk]]) 19:55, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
:Yeah, that's the Geonet, and it appears in DPPtHGSS too in the GTS/Global Terminal. It's necessary that it is the real world as it allows player's to specify their home country (and state/province) for international communication purposes. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 08:14, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

== Gen VI ==

At what point is it a good idea to add details here about Kalos/France and Lumiose City/Paris? [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|'''Miles''']] ([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|talk]]) 03:50, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

==Cerulean City RL Counterpart==
In the table featured within the article, Cerulean City is said to be based on the real world Saitama City, Saitama Prefecture, Japan. Saitama City was not officially a city until 2001, several years after the 1st generation games. Cerulean was a city before Saitama existed as a city.

While you could then say that Cerulean was based on what was to become Saitama City, the geographical locations don't match either. With Maebashi and Mt Akagi (Pewter and Mt Moon) being way up in Gunma Prefecture, the scale of the map is huge. As Cerulean is much further East, but no further South, to put it down in Saitama Prefecture at all seems like a gross misplacement. The real-world counterpart would be much further East.

This makes me think it's actually a city called Tsuchiura, in Ibaraki prefecture.

Aside from this being a far more likely and accurate geographical correlation, Tsuchiura has many other points of relevance for Cerulean. Tsuchiura is famous for its massive abundance of lotus root; these plants grow and bloom in man-made lagoons - they are floating blooms. Cerulean is also mentioned as a "seaside" city, despite not being quite as far East as the sea; Tsuchiura sits right next to lake Kasumigaura, the second biggest lake in Japan, and has a seaside feel as a result, despite, as with Cerulean, not being quite as far East as the actual sea. The area that joins onto Tsuchiura, to the North East, is called Kasumigaura, possibly the inspiration for the gym leader (Kasumi) Misty. Misty's gym is located towards the bottom of Cerulean City, and Tsuchiura also has a huge gymnasium, including a complex of swimming pools and water park type features, which is located towards the bottom of the city. There are a couple of rivers that run through Tsuchiura, the largest being the river Sakura. The trainer bridge could also potentially correspond to the bridge that links Kasumigaura with Kasumigaura Fureai Land, although this is a little more speculative.

I'm aware that I could be wrong, but a great many things do seem to fit, or show a heavy similarity of being a match of some kind. Feel free to agree or disagree, but let me know what your reasons are for doing so. [[User:Cloud210|Cloud210]] ([[User talk:Cloud210|talk]]) 11:25, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

:Welcome to Bulbapedia! As for Cerulean, you seem to have done your homework. I agree with you to change Saitama to Tsuchiura. --[[User:IWannaBeTheVeryBest|IWanna]]BeThe[[User talk:IWannaBeTheVeryBest|VeryBest]] 15:21, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

::Thanks. I sort of missed my point when I mentioned the Sakura river. "Sakuragawa" means "river of bloom" which isn't a huge leap from "water of flower" - similar to the unofficial but generally accepted name for the sisters at Cerulean gym in the animé. [[User:Cloud210|Cloud210]] ([[User talk:Cloud210|talk]]) 00:19, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

==Kalos Region==
I thought I'd submit some Kalos region counterparts for consideration. I haven't found a lot; just a few leads. The first is the most obvious: Lumiose City clearly corresponds to Paris. Others are less clear. I think the Tower of Mastery corresponds to Mont Saint-Michel, and Geosenge Town and the stones around it probably correspond to the Carnac Stones, or a similar site of standing stones. If anyone wants to add these or has better ideas of what these locations correspond to, feel free to add them to the page. I'm still easing back into the editing groove, so I don't feel up to adding them myself yet. --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] [[User talk:AndyPKMN|(talk)]] 20:29, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

== Sakhalin ==

Sakhalin is not disputed between Russia and Japan, how Sinnoh section of this article says. (Only Southern Kuril islands, including Kunashir are currently claimed by Japan).
Southern Sakhalin belonged to Japan before WWII, but now it is recognized part of Russia. [[User:Ruxax|Ruxax]] ([[User talk:Ruxax|talk]]) 23:23, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

== Suggestions ==
I think I may have some suggestions for what some of locations of the Kalos Region is based on.

Vaniville Town: Moulins or Nevers;

Aquacorde Town: Nevers, Bourges, or Auxere;

Santalune City: Fontainbleau or Auxere;

Camphrier Town: Orleans or Tours;

Cyllage City: St. Nazerre or Guérande;

[[User:UsagiNeko|UsagiNeko]] ([[User talk:UsagiNeko|talk]]) 04:30, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

== Battle Maison / Château de Chenonceau real world equivalent addition ==

I know that this article has a lot of fan speculation but I've gone ahead and added a real-world equivalent to the Battle Maison in X and Y as Château de Chenonceau. I was surprised that nobody so far has noticed the parallel between the two since the similarity is striking. Their layout as a bridge-castle is very similar and the visual style is so as well. They are also both in the same equivalent location (the Loire Valley, famous for its castles), west of Lumiose/Paris and close to Camphrier Town/Blois.{{unsigned|Almsivi}}

== Featured article disqualification ==

I have noticed that this article doesn't meet the criteria to be a featured article and I think that this should go to the candidates for removal of featured article. --[[User:PokémonXXXPlayer|PokémonXXXPlayer]] ([[User talk:PokémonXXXPlayer|talk]]) 12:28, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
:The featured article is no long something we use. Articles that are already featured will remain featured, and no new articles will become featured. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 12:53, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

== Moon landing ==

In the Generation I games (and presumably the remakes as well), a woman in the Pewter museum refers to the first "lunar landing" (Apollo 11) and says that it took place on July 20,1969. Should this be added to the article? [[User:RS89|RS89]] ([[User talk:RS89|talk]]) 12:25, 4 September 2014 (UTC)
:Well, since we know that this event ''really'' took place that time, then I think it should be added. --[[User:PokémonXXXPlayer|PokémonXXXPlayer]] ([[User talk:PokémonXXXPlayer|talk]]) 16:15, 4 September 2014 (UTC)

== Floaroma Town ==

Why isn't Floaroma Town included in the Sinnoh section? It should be located just under Oreburgh Mine, however I'm still looking for it's location on Hokkaido. [[User:!BATUROO!|!BATUROO!]] ([[User talk:!BATUROO!|talk]]) 00:46, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

I was looking at Google Earth, and the rough location would be the city of Ishikari, however, that is just what it is, a location. Is it possible that Valley Windworks should actually be listed as Floaroma Town because Tomamea is a town as well? [[User:!BATUROO!|!BATUROO!]] ([[User talk:!BATUROO!|talk]]) 00:52, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

== Sinnoh Battle Zone ==

If possible, shouldn't the Battle Zone be a little more specific? i.e. Fight, Survival, Resort Area, Stark Mountain, etc. [[User:!BATUROO!|!BATUROO!]] ([[User talk:!BATUROO!|talk]]) 01:20, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

== Fukuoka is Biggest city in Kyushu, ==

BUT PETALBURG ISN'T BIGGEST CITY IN HOENN!!!!! NOT BASED ON FUKUOKA!!!!!--[[user:youngster|たんぱんこぞう]] [[user_talk:youngster|ｺﾞﾛｳ]] 01:19, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

== M18 Location Inspiration ==

I don't know why, but for some reason, I think that the city the 18th movie takes place in is based on Chicago, mostly because the skyscraper on the left side of the poster looks a lot like Trump Tower, which is in the city. It just seems like a really good possibility that this city is based on Chicago. {{Unsigned|Harmonmj13}}

== Sea Spirit's Den ==

I wanted some agreement on this before I changed it, but I think Sea Spirit's Den is actually based on {{wp|Alderney}} and not {{wp|Jersey}}. If you compare a map of the [http://www.lonelyplanet.com/maps/europe/channel-islands/map_of_channel-islands.jpg Channel Islands ] and [http://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/8/8a/Kalos_alt.png Kalos] I think you will see that the 2 bigger green ones are Jersey and Guernsey, the little one is Sark and Sea Spirit's Den is Alderney. It is probably worth noting that historically the islands were part of Normandy (Northern France).

Another thing, it says that Jersey is part of the UK, this isn't correct. Jersey (and the other channel islands) have a complex relationship with the UK but they do not form part of it. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_dependencies This page] has more info on this. [[User:Jmvb|JMVB - I don't what to put here.]] ([[User talk:Jmvb|talk]]) 09:45, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

== Sakhalin ==

More specificly shouldn't Resort area be {{wp|Korsakovsky District, Sakhalin Oblast}}, Fight area and Survival Area in {{wp|Anivsky District}}, {{wp|Nevelsky District, Sakhalin Oblast}} or something more specific then just Sakhalin? {{unsigned|Raltseye}}

== edit war ==

You may have noticed the edit war between myself and Ratchet and Clank 1995, he/she is wrong. {{wp|British Islands}} is a legal term that unambiguously refers to the UK, Isle of Man, Guernsey and Jersey (the latter two are collectively the Channel Islands), as the wiki article says. He/she is right that the Channel Islands are not part of Great Britain/UK, which is why I changed it from UK to British Islands in the first place. (Originally he said he changed it because they were not part of the {{wp|British Isles}}, he/she may be right geographically but the term british isles is often used to include the channel islands)

While they are not technically part of the UK, Channel Islands are still 'British'. The inhabitants are entitled to a British passport, the queen is head of state, and the UK has responsibility for the defence and international representation of the islands. This is note worthy because they are the only non-French part of Kalos (although historically the islands were part of Normandy - Northern France). However, due to complicated reasons, it is incorrect to say they are part of the UK. 'British Islands' may be an unusual term, but it is correct and conveys that they are British without getting into complicated politics. [[User:Jmvb|JMVB - I don't what to put here.]] ([[User talk:Jmvb|talk]]) 20:06, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
:Well then to be more specific they are [[wp:Crown dependencies]] officialy. --[[User:Raltseye|Raltseye]] ([[User talk:Raltseye|talk]]) 15:26, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

Maybe we should use the term Crown dependencies as the user Raltseye mentioned above but I'm not going to change it anymore. I have .[[User:Ratchet and Clank 1995|Ratchet and Clank 1995]] ([[User talk:Ratchet and Clank 1995|talk]]) 10:37, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

:I'm not sure about using the term 'Crown Dependences', it's a little obscure, I feel as if we would have to explain what it means and that would make us go off topic. There are pros and cons to using either 'British Isles' or 'British Islands', but I don't care anymore let's just leave it as British Isles [[User:Jmvb|JMVB - I don't what to put here.]] ([[User talk:Jmvb|talk]]) 20:38, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

== Snowbelle ==

Likening Snowbelle City to Grenoble seems pretty unlikely as Grenoble is further south than Lyon, which is commonly accepted to be Kiloude City. It seems a lot more likely that Snowbelle is supposed to be Besançon or one of the surrounding cities such as Montbéliard, Dole or Lons-Le-Saunier, considering the region is known for cross-country skiing in the Jura mountains as well as freezing weather in the winter (the region of Jura is sometimes affectionately called "Little Siberia"). The general location fits, as well. [[User:Rappy28|Rappy28]] ([[User talk:Rappy28|talk]]) 17:32, 12 October 2015 (UTC)
:I was the person to link Kiloude City to Lyon and I still believe this to be correct, one reason why I linked it was the fact that Lyon is just slightly North of the Gironde estuary which its Pokémon counterpart can be seen on the Kalos map so they seem to match. You have made a valid point that Grenoble is too far south so I agree with you and that Snowbelle cannot possibly be based on Grenoble's location. I would say go ahead and change Grenoble to Besançon as it does seem to fit and the fact that it's called "Little Siberia" could go in the notes section as it actually seems relevant.[[User:Ratchet and Clank 1995|Ratchet and Clank 1995]] ([[User talk:Ratchet and Clank 1995|talk]]) 18:39, 10 November 2015 (UTC)
::I edited it. Further reading for reference : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_extreme_temperatures_in_France , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mouthe . To be fair, Snowbelle itself doesn't resemble Besançon much, but as it's the largest city in Franche-Comté and the capital of the infamously cold Doubs department, it seems fair. [[User:Rappy28|Rappy28]] ([[User talk:Rappy28|talk]]) 14:51, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

== Kenya ==

I'm tired of seeing all of you edit warring over something so small without anyone bothering to open a discussion, so instead I'm starting a discussion on it. Personally, I don't see the problem with adding something on the end along the lines of "Kenya is also the name of a mountain in the country of Kenya, Mount Kenya, from which the country derives its name." I don't think it would hurt to add a small line on like that, especially considering that it is in fact where the name originates. Yes, the Spearow is probably named after the country, but the country itself is named after the mountain. '''[[User:Slimey01|slimey]][[User talk:Slimey01|01]]''' 13:32, 18 December 2015 (UTC)
:There was a discussion, on my talk page, where I clearly said that the country is the most likely reference. The mountain is irrelevant in this case since it's not something one would immediately think of. I've already made it clear, but Ratchet is just being stubborn.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 14:14, 18 December 2015 (UTC)
::To point out even more, 4 users total were involved in the discussion, with 3 of the 4 agreeing that the country is the first (if not only) thing most people would think of. As Force Fire said, these wars are the result of one person with the strong belief that their opinion outweighs the majority of other opinions expressed, which at this point I will no longer be dealing with reverting, leaving it for staff members to deal with. [[User:ChE clarinetist|ChE clarinetist]] ([[User talk:ChE clarinetist|talk]]) 01:08, 19 December 2015 (UTC)
:::I would however think of the mountain and so would a lot of other people. Kenya is also a name that has been used in the USA since the 1960s so the Spearow could just have the name Kenya. There is one issue with that point which is the other points actually say a location this Spearow just happens to have the name Kenya which doesn't mention the location, the only way it could would be if the guard said that he named it after the country and that would be the mention not the name itself.[[User:Ratchet and Clank 1995|Ratchet and Clank 1995]] ([[User talk:Ratchet and Clank 1995|talk]]) 10:57, 19 March 2016 (UTC)
::::You wouldn't be saying that if you didn't know that the mountain existed or there are people named Kenya. You're only using that because you've just looked that up and are trying to justify yourself. I didn't know about the mountain or people named Kenya, but now that I do know, I still think the country is the first thing that comes to mind. No common person is going to know either the mountain or people named Kenya, because the country is much more significant than the two. I've already told you to let this go, and you are clearly not listening. This discussion is close and the decision is final.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 13:17, 19 March 2016 (UTC)
:::::What, I knew about the mountain way before this, in school my class did a project about Kenya in 2006 so myself and everyone who was in the same class knows about Mount Kenya. Every Kenyan probably knows about the mountain and the fact that their country is named after it. You said that no one would know about the name Kenya, people who know people called Kenya would know about it being used as a name. It's just a guess that it is named after Kenya as no other information is provided and as a result my decision is final and the whole point stays off.[[User:Ratchet and Clank 1995|Ratchet and Clank 1995]] ([[User talk:Ratchet and Clank 1995|talk]]) 00:20, 20 March 2016 (UTC)
::::::And per usual, you completely missed what I said. I said no '''common''' person is going to know the mountain or people named Kenya, of course people living in Kenya (and geographers, for that matter) are going to know the mountain. But everyone else, no... just no. You are in no position to say what the final decision is, I've already said no but you're clearly not listening.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 01:52, 20 March 2016 (UTC)
:::::::Thinking about it, after all of this discussion you have only been able to say it is "most likely the country" and haven't provided any evidence to say that it actually certainly does mention the country. As there is no certain way of knowing whether it actually mentions the country it should be left out because the Spearow just has a nickname which has been a name in the USA since the 1960s whereas all of the other points has a character actually say a place. By this logic of "most likely" couldn't we say Ash's Charizard is most likely male because of its relationship with Charla and the fact that homosexual and bisexual Pokémon have not been confirmed to exist in the anime. If we go by that logic Charizard's page should just say it's male. Ask random Pokémon fans what gender they think Charizard is and they probably all think male. This site seems to have it both ways in the case of genders it has to be explicitly stated whereas in this instance it doesn't it's just a name the guard didn't say that he named it after the country. I really don't see any difference but you admins have it both ways when it suits you,

:::::::'''HYPOCRISY!!!!!'''[[User:Ratchet and Clank 1995|Ratchet and Clank 1995]] ([[User talk:Ratchet and Clank 1995|talk]]) 19:10, 26 May 2016 (UTC)
::::::::Using your logic, ask any random joe about what they think of when they hear "Kenya", they'll tell you the country. You have been told to drop this by not only me, but by Kogoro as well. So for the last time, drop it.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 03:43, 27 May 2016 (UTC)
(resetting indent)You didn't even argue against my point about the fact that you are only using "most likely" the country. In your argument about Pangoro's slash you made it very clear that assumptions should not be made yet you are doing exactly that on this article. As I mentioned Ash's Charizard is most likely male and it's page doesn't state male so why when there is no explicit information stating that the country is mentioned is this allowed but in order for a Pokémon's gender to be confirmed it must be explicitly stated. Why don't you drop it and just allow the point to be removed because it doesn't add much to the page and it doesn't actually mention it as it's only a name that has been used since the 1960s so they could have just called it Kenya.[[User:Ratchet and Clank 1995|Ratchet and Clank 1995]] ([[User talk:Ratchet and Clank 1995|talk]]) 08:49, 27 May 2016 (UTC)

== Anville Town ==

I noticed under the Unova section nobody put the equivalent to Anville Town. There's nothing much to actually do in Anville, but I believe there still has to be a real-life counterpart to it. I was speaking with my mother about this, and she grew up in Queens so she knows New York and Northern New Jersey like the back of her hand. I grew up in Bergen County, so I know a bit about it too. I asked her exactly what Anville Town would be based off of based upon its location, and we came to the conclusion that it is the equivalent to Morristown, NJ. Morristown is known for its train station and one of its stops transits right into the 59th Street's station (which is what Nimbasa is based off of).
Yay or nay? {{unsigned|MeruNoUta}}

== Spear Pillar ==

Mt. Asahi is the highest peak in Hokkaido, as Spear Pillar is the highest peak in Sinnoh. Mt. Asahi's location relative to the rest of Hokkaido is also close to Spear Pillar's location relative to the rest of Sinnoh. Can I say that Spear Pillar was based on Mt. Asahi? [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 19:38, 25 June 2016 (UTC)
:This is a change I was going to suggest as well. Based on Mt. Coronet's layout as you near the peak and what you can see of the surrounding terrain, Mt. Asahi looks to be a very close match to Spear Pillar. It's also in the correct geographical position, and it works uncannily well in locating the Sinjoh Ruins (or at least where ''I'' think they are). [[User:Areku|Areku]] ([[User talk:Areku|talk]]) 06:49, 30 October 2016 (UTC)

== Decolore Islands ==

I noticed that the region hasn't been added yet, along with the Orange Islands. As a resident of Connecticut, I believe the the Decolore Islands are most likely based on the Thimble Islands. They are located close to New York, the area Unova itself is based on. Additionally, many of the Decolore Islands are not populated and instead used as nature preserves, similar to the major university-owned Thimble Islands used for ecological studies. However, a few islands in the Thimbles are built up considerable, such as Money Island. This is similar to the Unnamed Island in BW138. [[User:Manqoba|Manqoba]] ([[User talk:Manqoba|talk]]) 15:31, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
:With all due respect, I think your perception of likelihood may be influenced by home-state bias. Looking at a map, the Thimble Islands hug Connecticut ''very'' closely, far from the border with New York, and ''very'' far from any part of New York that Unova is based on. I think this is a case of confirmation bias, sorry. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 17:21, 25 August 2016 (UTC)

== Oblivia ==

Assuming that Oblivia is in fact based on the Oki Island, here is what I believe to be the relation:
*Dolce Island is Chibu
*Renbow Island and Mitonga Island form the two halves of Nishinoshima
*Sophian Island is Okinoshima (transposed a bit)
But Faldera, Layuda and Tilikule have no real-world counterpart. [[User:Ifni400|Ifni400]] ([[User talk:Ifni400|talk]]) 23:51, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

== Images and Mystery Dungeon ==

I have two questions, 1. Why is it that only the three latest regions have a compairing image to the corresponding real world location? Also both Unova's and Kalos' as well as Almia's image all have the real world location above it while Alola's is located beneeth. Why? 2. Isn't the Mystery Dungeon world based on somewhere in the world or is it just made out of the air so to speak. --[[User:Raltseye|Raltseye]] [[User talk:Raltseye|prata med mej]] 11:14, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

== Blackthorn City, Dragon's Den and Ice Path ==

Northeastern Johto is not an easy area to pin down, but I think I've found something that accurately depicts the Blackthorn area. I can tell people have already made a significant effort to locate these places, so I don't want to make any changes to their contributions without talking about them first.

First off, I don't think there's much significance between Clair's Japanese name, Ibuki, and the suggested Dragon's Den, Mt. Ibuki. Ibuki means "breath", and is often associated with a strong will, impulsive behavior and over-sensitivity; this seems to fit Clair pretty well. In GSC, the TM she awards you with is Dragonbreath, or Ryu-no-ibuki in the JP version, another possible origin of her name. I'm sorry, but I'm really starting to doubt her name was inspired by the mountain believed to have the had the world's heaviest snowfall in recorded history, so I don't think there's much supporting that mountain as the location of Dragon's Den. However, given the mountain's close proximity to "Mahogany" and "Lake of Rage" and its own icy history, I think it's a strong candidate for the entrance to Ice Path.

The next thing I want to critique is the Blackthorn-Shirakawa theory. The main thing that made me look into this is that Shirakawa is significantly far away from where you'd expect to find it relative to the other locations we've found, and unlike the the questionable relationship between Cherrygrove/Violet, Shirakawa is also very far away from every other location we've found (it's the most isolated location in all of real-world Johto/Kanto to date). Additionally, Shirakawa is famous for its nearly-uniform gasshō-zukuri, but these designs aren't reflected in Blackthorn's new buildings even though Violet and Ecruteak received makeovers that match Nara and Kyoto.

Okay, now for my suggestions. I think Blackthorn is Kai/Kofu, Yamanashi; Ice Path (exit) is the oft-hypothesized Narusawa Ice Cave, Yamanashi; and Dragon's Den is Kanazakura-jinja Shrine, Yamanashi.

My first lead came when I saw a "Did You Know" on the Smash Bros series; during development the first game was called "Dragon King: Fighting Game" and featured a striking picture of a low-rise neighborhood with Mt Fuji (Mt Silver) in the background. The video claimed the game's name came from that neighborhood, which just so happened to be where HAL Laboratory was located, and that the picture was taken by a certain programmer I'll name later. This all piqued my interest, so I started digging. The town's name was Ryūō, with a population around 40,000 (right on the low end of other towns believed to inspire other towns up to this point), and it was merged with several other towns into Kai in 2004 (after the release of GSC). Geographically, it's a strong match for Blackthorn, surrounded by mountains and with Fuji standing prominently to its Southeast; the biggest issue is that it's tightly clustered with a number of significant cities. Then I zoomed out, and I realized the broader Kofu basin is a very close match to the birds-eye view shape of Blackthorn (use Earth mode to make this more apparent). According to legend, the Kofu basin used to be a lake until Kami pushed on of the mountains aside and the lake drained to the south; this southerly river-valley is clearly visible from a map and could explain the river in Blackthorn and Route 45 in HGSS.

Okay, so Dragon's Den. Kanazakura-jinja Shrine is just north of Kai, it prominently features a pair of dragons, the "rising and falling dragons", and one carries a fire crystal and the other a water crystal. The translations from their website are a little wonky, but it sounds like these dragons symbolize the reconstruction of the main shrine after it collapsed in a 1953 fire (there's also some visible damage to the Den in HGSS), with the dragons drawing attention to fire above and water below. Rising and falling dragons, fire above/water below... I think this symbolism is an interesting parallel to Dragon's Den and the lava-filled Gym located directly above it, and what was the name of that Gym's badge? Rising. Also, the Shrine wasn't all that burned; most of the Kofu basin was destroyed in a night-time air raid in 1945. Combined, these fires may have inspired Blackthorn's name, Fusube, or black smoke.

Anyone who's still reading has probably already encountered the idea that Narusawa Ice Cave corresponds to Ice Path, so I'll just say Kai/Kofu is sandwiched neatly between the Cave and the Shrine. Also, an Ibuki/Naursawa fused Ice Path may serve as a "portal" of sorts to cover the long distance between Koka/Mahogany and Kai.

Finally, earlier I mentioned HAL's R&D center in Kai and a certain programmer. We know that GameFreak has a habit of featuring themselves in the Pokemon games, but what about guest programmers? Well, HAL may not have worked on GSC directly, but their then-president did! Satoru Iwata famously helped development along through graphical compression (he's directly attributed with freeing up enough space on the cartridges to add the Kanto region to the games), so where might he be in Blackthorn? The Move Deleter, of course! Iwata freed up space on the carts, the MD frees up space on your Pokemon; considering everything else, I find this to be more than mere coincidence.

Any one of these location changes might not be very persuasive on their own, but I think they're pretty compelling when taken altogether. What do you guys think about these possible changes in our listed locations?[[User:Areku|Areku]] ([[User talk:Areku|talk]]) 07:29, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

== Lake Valor ==

The article currently says that Lake Valor is based on [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Kussharo Lake Kussharo], which is closer to Abashiri (Veilstone) than Kushiro (Pastoria). However, I think the lake might be based on [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Akan Lake Akan]. Although Lake Akan is much smaller and doesn't have the same shape (round with an island in the middle), its location corresponds to Lake Valor's location much better than Lake Kussharo, and there is a small resort village on its southern shore.

[[User:ILoveArceus|ILoveArceus]] ([[User talk:ILoveArceus|talk]]) 21:33, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

== Kahoolawe??? ==

How is [[Exeggutor Island]] based off of Kahoolawe? Kahoolawe is southwest of Maui (& is in Maui County), which is what Akala is based off of, not Kauai. {{User|BoygeyMario}}
:Geographically, Exeggutor Island is Niihau, but if you read the notes, it says that it is uninhabited by humans like Kahoolawe.[[User:Naui|Naui]] ([[User talk:Naui|talk]]) 19:19, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

== Azoth Kingdom and England or Italy ==

In the design of the Azoth Kingdom, there are elements that refer to the industrial revolution and Steampunk design, if we take into account that Volcanion is based in part on a steam engine, which was created in England, it would be possible for the Azoth Kingdom it was near north north of Kalos or in England itself.

But if we take into account that Nikola is based on Da Vinci, the kingdom could be on the border between Kalos and some equivalent to Italy in the Pokemon World.

¿What do you think?

[[User:Grizzlyring123|Grizzlyring123]] ([[User talk:Grizzlyring123|Grizzlyring123]]) 9:41, 9 January 2018 (UTC)
:It seems to me that going by anything other than the architecture itself would be too speculative. Many (dare I say most?) places in the Pokemon world include elements/characters based on things from other places than what the location itself was based on. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 04:16, 10 January 2018 (UTC)

::I said it because Magearna and Volcanion are based on the industrial revolution. [[User:Grizzlyring123|Grizzlyring123]] ([[User talk:Grizzlyring123|Grizzlyring123]]) 11:11, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

== Galar Region ==

So the Galar Region has just been announced for Pokemon Sword and Shield, and I know there were rumours before the announcement that it would be based off of the UK, so as a Briton myself, I've tried to verify that/match the locations. The industrial and farming focus definitely suits the UK, and I can see a structure that looks like the Palace of Westminster in the Icy Northern City, suggesting the island is flipped North to South (and possible East-West as well).

Based on this, looking at the red-brick city in which the starters are shown, with its industrial nature, canal leading to the sea and bordering mountains, I think that it represents Manchester, which would mean that the city by the wall where the ice starts would be Birmingham, although none of it's features match.

It's also possible the city on the sea is Liverpool, due to being on the coast between Manchester and Birmingham.

The industrial City being Manchester also fits with the lakes South of it, which would represent the Lake District
These cities would suggest that the region represents just England, rather than the whole of the UK.

Just some preliminary ideas, we shall have to wait for more information before confirming anything. {{unsigned|ZiggyAngelo8}}

:Well here is some information I've tried to put but Wiki-maniacs here can't live with them until they are officially confirmed(like we ever needed official confirmation anyway) :P

:[[Galar]] is based on {{wp|Great Britain}}. Galar's outline is of a vertical flipped Great Britain, though the climate isn't flipped(cold north and warm south), ideally making the London based city snowy and Manchester/Liverpool based one warm.

:[[User:Shaked|Shaked]] ([[User talk:Shaked|talk]]) 21:46, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

::I could argue that Galar also reminds me of a Scandinavian country, which it actually does. Game Freak may throw us in a loop, which is why sourcing is absolutely important when making a claim like this. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 22:06, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

:::Well, it's actually a vertically ''and horizontally''-flipped Great Britain (or how Great Britain looks from the North).
:::It's most definitely based on Great Britain, London is at the top of the region with the London Eye, Big Ben/Parliment, and tower is based off, what I assume, is the {{wp|The Gherkin}}. The general shape and edges match up well too.
:::The steampunk town with the "clocktower" is based on Edinburgh, in some of its features and geographical position.[[User:Argentarus|Argentarus]] ([[User talk:Argentarus|talk]]) 00:16, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
::::Well, we should still wait for an official confirmation. This info is already being hidden in other articles by admins. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 00:32, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
:::::We also can't really add any locations in the Galar Region to this list without know the names of the locations. Putting something like the Edinburgh town as "Steampunk Town" doesn't really scream "professional editing". [[User:Argentarus|Argentarus]] ([[User talk:Argentarus|talk]]) 00:48, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
::::::Agreed. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 01:07, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

:I think that the region is only based in England, since there are no references to its neighboring regions (Scotland and Wales), and that the region is set backwards, with London in the north

:[[User:Grizzlyring123|Grizzlyring123]] ([[User talk:Grizzlyring123|Grizzlyring123]]) 7:42, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

::The region would be way too small if the region was just composed of England.
::Traced out the shape of GB and Galar, Galar is at such a weird angle but you can still make out geographical details. It seems the pointy ends of Wales that jut out are almost nonexistent in Pokemon. Image: https://imgur.com/6VNe7QM
::(Somebody also leaked some '''''major''''' general game spoilers last week, one detail was that Galar is based on Great Britain.) https://archive.nyafuu.org/vp/thread/37621165 [[User:Argentarus|Argentarus]] ([[User talk:Argentarus|talk]]) 04:16, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

: Discussions about whether or not Galar is based on UK are also important, but I think someone should change the first paragraph from "The designs of seven of the major Pokémon regions—Kanto, Johto, Hoenn, Sinnoh, Unova, Kalos, and Alola—are strikingly similar in geography and demographics to regions in the real world, and sometimes even officially stated to be based on certain locations. The first four regions are based on smaller regions in Japan, while Unova and Alola are based on parts of the United States and Kalos is based on France. It is stated that the inspiration for Orre is Phoenix, Arizona." to "The designs of eight of the major Pokémon regions—Kanto, Johto, Hoenn, Sinnoh, Unova, Kalos, Alola, and Galar—are strikingly similar in geography and demographics to regions in the real world, and sometimes even officially stated to be based on certain locations. The first four regions are based on smaller regions in Japan, while Unova and Alola are based on parts of the United States and Kalos is based on France. It is stated that the inspiration for Orre is Phoenix, Arizona." [[User:Kimichael4317|Kimichael4317]] ([[User talk:Kimichael4317|talk]]) 05:49, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

: Personally, I think that if Edinburgh were in the game, Edinburgh Castle would feature somehow, and additionally, if the red-brick city were to be based on a Scottish city, it's more likely to be Glasgow, which is both bigger than Edinburgh and more associated with industry.

: Having said this, I still believe that the region only represents England, as a lack of landmarks resembling Aberdeen or Inverness would mean that, if Scotland is included, it's only half of it, which would be a strange decision; furthermore, if the red-brick city were Glasgow, that would mean virtually all of England, 60% of Great Britain, would be condensed into about 1/4 of the region. {{unsigned|ZiggyAngelo8}}

:: They condensed most of Northern metropolitan France into a few cities and towns in Kalos, why can't they do the same with Galar?
::The coastlines between GB and Galar match up pretty closely, except Wales loses it "edginess". The map doesn't really paint an accurate picture of what the region contains, as it isn't really a 1:1 representation of the whole contents of the region, making it so we're unable to see all of buildings within the Steampunk area (Not even the regions are on complete a 1:1 with their IRL counterparts).
::Heck, since there isn't a town or city to the left near the steampunk area, they might've meshed Edinburgh and Glasgow into one city. They've already done towns that had elements from multiple locations and made them into one in-game location. [[User:Argentarus|Argentarus]] ([[User talk:Argentarus|talk]]) 17:07, 1 March 2019 (UTC)

:Having seen the Galar Map flipped to match Great Britain as closely as possible, it definitely seems like the Port Town is at least in the same location as Liverpool/Birkenhead or possibly Blackpool. I had originally thought the lakes must be the Lake District, hence the industrial city would have to be Manchester (or Leeds or Newcastle, looking at it flipped, although, as Argentarus said, it could be all 3 combined), or the lakes could represent the Caledonian Canal and the Lochs it runs through, though those could be represented by the river and lake in the starting town. Also, I had theorised that the fairy town by the big wall could be representative of Nottingham and Sherwood Forest, as this is near the Birmingham Metropolitan Area in real life, which still seems likely as the walled grey city. {{unsigned|ZiggyAngelo8}}

:This video explains why the starting town is most likely in the Dumfries and Galloway region of Scotland [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMe3kM_ETio]{{unsigned|ZiggyAngelo8}}

This article honestly should've been protected earlier, or used a notice like, idk, (Template:Protect) or (Template:Disputed) (If the constant editing in of a Galar section by multiple users even counts as a dispute in the current situation) to still allow editing for previous regions without all of the unnecessary editing and unediting. (Maybe it's time for a template '''focused on''' pre-release conjecture. Something along the lines of "Don't edit in unconfirmed information or pre-release speculation until the game has been officially released", unless that kind of template already exists. The "upcoming" notice has it as a almost-unnoticable-unless-you-read-it warning in its fine print, but nobody ever reads non-emboldened fine print. Period.) If they ignore the notices, they pay the price. [[User:Argentarus|Argentarus]] ([[User talk:Argentarus|talk]]) 22:38, 13 March 2019 (UTC)

:That should be something you should suggest to the admins on their talk pages, not here. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 23:14, 13 March 2019 (UTC)

::Hello, A new gym leader called Nessa was revealed a few weeks ago, as well as a E3 demo where we got to look inside her gym. Seeing as her name comes from the Loch Ness monster, maybe Scotland might be included?[[User:Kirsten Thomas|Kirsten Thomas]] ([[User talk:Kirsten Thomas|talk]]) 01:15, 6 July 2019 (UTC)

:::Perhaps? [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 02:03, 6 July 2019 (UTC)

== Unova Route 4 ==

Has Unova Route 4's resemblance to the former WTC site actually been confirmed? I know it's been speculated, but I've yet to see any source confirm it to be anything but an unfortunate coincidence (unfortunate because I find it hard to believe the creators would intentionally insert a reference to such a tragedy). [[User:TheFatPanda|TheFatPanda]] ([[User talk:TheFatPanda|talk]]) 18:24, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

:I was the one who added it some time ago, I really can not think of a more adequate justification for this desert {{unsigned|Grizzlyring123}}

::I don't think thats what they were going for. The WTC is located way south in the manhattan financial district, nowhere near where route 4 is supposed to be. The WTC would be in the middle of Castelia City. Route 4 is a construction zone between Castelia (downtown) and Nimbasa (midtown). So, location and concept wise, it's probably just referencing the various construction projects always going on in that area. Most notably, the West Side Freight Yards/Hudson Yards which right now, since 2012, is a huge construction project to turn train yards of southwest midtown into a town with residential housing and offices. But, before that (and while B/W was in development), it was a big, open, dusty railyard with constant construction going on with the only notable tourist spot being the javits center, similar to how the relic castle is said to be a popular tourist spot. I think the desert idea was just to make the region more diverse and the relic castle was probably inspired by all the museums all over midtown.--[[User:Zippthewicked|Zippthewicked]] ([[User talk:Zippthewicked|talk]]) 19:55, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

== Kalos Pokémon League is based on Notre Dame ==

It was weird not to see a Pokémon-ified Notre-Dame cathedral in Lumiose City, especially when Notre-Dame such an iconic French icon.

So, the Kalos Pokemon League might not be based on the Nancy Cathedral (I'm curious about why that was chosen), but rather the Eastern facade (side) of the Notre-Dame cathedral, as viewed from the La Fontaine de la Vierge (with some elements, like the "dome-like structures" on the front of the league building, coming from other gothic-era cathedrals). Both the Kalos Pokémon League and the eastern facade of Notre-Dame feature fence-like things on their roofs, numerous {{wp|Flying Buttress|flying buttresses}} (Notre-Dame and the Pokemon League building have flying buttresses that connect to four small towers that are in similar positions; the Kalos league takes some artistic libetries and includes some higher, upside-down "flying buttresses" around the front of the main spire), there are also two areas to the side of the Pokemon League that could also correspond to the northern and southern part of Notre-Dame's {{wp|Transept|transept}} (the sides of the building that jut out from the main part of the building and houses two of Notre-Dame's famous {{wp|Notre-Dame_de_Paris#Stained_glass_—_rose_windows|rose windows}}; the same kind of window architecture that composes the floor of the Elite Four and Champion's chambers), the door that leads into the Pokemon League that has the three circles (that kind of look like an upside-down Mickey Mouse head) features a similar design on the arched windows along the bottom of Notre-Dame, and the Pokemon League has a spire on the center of the main building similar to how Notre-Dame also sports a spire on the converging point of the transept and the main building.

It might be a bit of a stretch, but the four '''big''' towers (not including the spire on top, and yes, there are four; if you move around you can barely see the red roofs of the two other towers behind the two front towers) that are located near the transept of the Pokemon League building may be based on Notre-Dame's bell towers, but more research might need to go into the the inspirations behind those towers.

Pictures of the Eastern end of Notre-Dame and the Kalos Pokemon League: [https://www.eurocheapo.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Notre-Dame-Buttresses.jpg] [https://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/3/31/Pok%C3%A9mon_League_Kalos.png][[User:Argentarus|Argentarus]] ([[User talk:Argentarus|talk]]) 04:31, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

== Sprout Tower and Floaroma Town's motif is Kōfukuji Temple and Biei Town. ==

Kōfukuji is on North East of Nara. Same location with Sprout Tower.
But Hōryūji is on South West of Nara.
And Kōfukuji is famous of Five Storied Pagoda, which is second biggest wooden Pagoda in Japan.
Also, Shikisainooka in Biei Town is famous of great flower garden.
And Snowpoint City's motif is Wakkanai City. not Hamatonbetsu Town.
--[[User:Kirigayaray|Kirigayaray]] ([[User talk:Kirigayaray|talk]]) 05:06, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

== Galar basis confirmed ==

It has been [https://www.pokemon.com/us/pokemon-news/we-interview-junichi-masuda-and-shigeru-ohmori-about-pokemon-sword-and-pokemon-shield/ officially confirmed] to be based on the UK. Can this page be edited to show that, or have the protection changed? --[[User:HoennMaster|Hoenn]][[User talk:HoennMaster|Master]] 03:50, 21 June 2019 (UTC)

:As everyone suspected, I suppose. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 04:28, 21 June 2019 (UTC)

== Galar's Real Life Locations ==

Galar is the island of Great Britain flipped around soto look at it from the north southwards, with some of the landmarks moved around, for examples...

* The Scottish Highlands are located where Southern England is supposed to be.
* The Manchester City is where Newcastle should be
* The Birmingham City is where Manchester should be
* Liverpool (The snowy city) is where North Wales is

But apart from those minor changes, the location of others are still accurate...

* Kilburn has a Hill Figure of a horse, despite the design being based on that found in Southern England.
* Blackpool, despite having a Lighthouse instead of a Tower, although Fleetwood nearby has Lighthouses.
* Buxton/Peak District and Sherwood Forest/Nottingham seems accurate enough to me.
* The rows of houses could be Southport by basing the locations on geography.
* The Wild Area, although where Southern Scotland is, seems to be more based on the Lake District National Park, which is a major tourist hotspot with it's lakes and mountains.

It's also to note, one of the names of a lake in the E3 showcase in Treehouse Live has ''South'' written, and it's the nearest to the Manchester City and Wall. The wall could be inspired from Hadrian's Wall which is located around where Newcastle is.

[[User:Cynthia149|Cynthia149]] ([[User talk:Cynthia149|talk]]) 17:56, 13 July 2019 (UTC)

== The Wild Area is the Lake District ==

I just thought I let you know that, as it is a very popular tourist attraction, especially for Japanese and Chinese tourists. From the E3 showcase, the following areas within the place are as follows...

* South Lake Milock - Located close to the railway bridge and wall to Manchester City (Lake Windermere)
* Rolling Fields
* East Lake Axewell - Located close to the entrance to Manchester City (Derwent Water)

[[User:Cynthia149|Cynthia149]] ([[User talk:Cynthia149|talk]]) 12:12, 6 August 2019 (UTC)

Yeah, I kind of agree with the whole "Chinese tourists" thing. I just been there this summer so I kind of know where this is coming from. Will this replace routes???
[[User:Kirsten Thomas|Kirsten Thomas]] ([[User talk:Kirsten Thomas|talk]]) 07:25, 14 August 2019 (UTC)

==galar stadiums==
"A large football stadium in Leeds that is home to Leeds United F.C. The football theme for the Gym is based on local team Newcastle United F.C." that doesnt make any sense. newcastle and leeds arent near each other, and how would newcastle be the "local team" for leeds? theyre not even in the same county. this is also the case for "Also known as the Britannia Stadium, it is a stadium in Stoke-on-Trent. The football theme for the Gym is based on local team Sheffield United F.C." "An open field in the city that is used for many events. The football theme for the Gym is based on local team Walton F.C." ...a semi pro team in the 8th tier with a stadium that only holds 2000 people...? [[User:Roserade57|Roserade57]] ([[User talk:Roserade57|talk]]) 09:40, 8 March 2020 (UTC)

:Those are {{U|Cynthia149}}'s edits, not mine. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 10:00, 8 March 2020 (UTC)

:: I removed these a while ago for this reason. They're back now? Ridiculous. [[User:ATrueCelt|ATrueCelt]] ([[User talk:ATrueCelt|talk]]) 18:03, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

== Anville Town and Gear Station ==

I would like to dispute the current real world equivalents of Anville Town and Gear Station.
The Unova Subway System's routes are not based on the actual New York Subway system, since the New York subway system doesn't leave New York City, while the Unova system connects the entire region. The Unova Subway System's lines are instead a combination of New Jersey Transit and Metro North, which do link the outlying areas to the central city. Once you understand this, it becomes relatively easy to find the equivalent for Anville Town. From my research, I have come to the conclusion that Anville town is most likely based on Port Jervis, New York. Anville Town is best known for its roundhouse and roundtable at the end of the line. Port Jervis's roundhouse burned in the 1970s, but its roundtable still stands and can be seen on Google Maps [https://www.google.com/maps/@41.3764071,74.6949081,3a,75y,53.27h,94.76t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipMaHhCbuKlMZ7tKg0wbtYUw7KghV4xpZ5c576dh!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipMaHhCbuKlMZ7tKg0wbtYUw7KghV4xpZ5c576dh%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi0-ya244.97389-ro-0-fo100!7i8704!8i4352 Erie Railroad Roundhouse Turntable - Google Maps]. Port Jervis is also in the correct place geographically, being more northern and far away when compared to any of the other real life locations that Unova cities were based on. Port Jervis’s position on the train lines is also incredibly similar to Anville Town’s position on the in-game subway lines, being at the end of a northern New Jersey Transit/Metro North line. These factors lead me to believe that Anville Town is based on Port Jervis.
Although Morristown has been proposed as the real life inspiration for Anville Town, I believe there are flaws in that argument. The comparison between the two towns is based on Anville Town being known for its train station, when in actuality, its roundhouse and roundtable are its distinguishing features, with its station only consisting of a small platform and benches. Morristown does not have a roundhouse or roundtable, while Port Jervis had both. Moreover, Morristown is located southwest of New York City, while Anville Town is located northwest of Nimbasa City. The other argument, that Morristown's train station connected to the 59th Street Station in New York, proves deeply flawed on closer examination. For starters, there is no evidence that the station in Morristown ever connected to the station at 59th Street. Secondly, the station at 59th street is a subway station, which does not connect to the train line running out of Morristown's station. Third, I see no reason why the 59th Street Station would have been the basis for Gear Station anyway. While the station at 59th Street does connect many subway lines, it does not connect all of them, unlike Gear Station. Gear Station is much more likely to be an amalgamation of Penn Station and Grand Central Station. Those are the principal stations in New York where all of the train lines of New Jersey Transit and Metro North end up. This is similar to how Gear Station connects all of Unova's subway lines. Architecturally, one can also see the similarities between the entrances of the old Penn Station, Grand Central, and Gear Station. This would also make sense if we are to believe that the Unova Subway’s lines was actually based on these train lines instead of the New York Subway system.
[[User:TurtlezPancakes|TurtlezPancakes]] ([[User talk:TurtlezPancakes|talk]]) 19:11, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

== National Park and Pokeathalon Dome ==

:After sifting through Johto's routes relative to irl Japan, I noticed 2 things I think are worth considering. One is that, I'm almost convinced the National Park is actually based in part on Osaka castle's surrounding park. The fountain and circular plaza are identical, though, admittedly, most circular plazas could pass for that. The second is that I'm positive the Pokeathalon Dome is based on Maishima Sports Island. The island is famous for it's absolutely bonkers sports domes, and it's placement is right off the coast of Osaka in the bay, in just the same spot where Pokeathalon Dome is off of Route 35. [[User:PartyTom|PartyTom]] ([[User talk:PartyTom|talk]]) 21:32, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

== Driftveil Drawbridge ==

I think it should be added to the notes section that the Driftveil drawbridge takes inspiration from the golden gate bridge. while yes the bridge correlates with the lincoln tunnel it is very clearly not a tunnel and is a bridge. While not exact, the two look eerily similar they are very close in color and style. I honestly feel Nintendo/Gamefreak were going in that direction when designing the bridge because they really wanted to represent America in these games because they were the first games set outside Japan and in America, and I'd argue that the golden gate bridge is not only a San Francisco icon but also an American icon as well. Plus they have drawn inspiration in BW/B2W2 from outside the new york metro area like Lentimas town whereas it's not Santa Fe, but definitely draws inspiration from it, so I don't think it being all the way in California matters. Unless there is some other bridge that more closely resembles the Driftveil bridge, or it is a completely made up designed and just coincidently resembles the golden gate, then I'd say there is a strong case for it being inspired by the golden gate bridge.[[User:Wisteriavines11|Wisteriavines11]] ([[User talk:Wisteriavines11|talk]]) 08:29, 23 September 2020 (UTC) Wisteriavines11

== Newmoon Island and Fullmoon Island ==

As the page currently reads, it is:

- Fullmoon Island = Rishiri Island

- Newmoon Island = Rebun Island

But looking at the maps of both Sinnoh and Hokkaido over and over again, I can't help but feel it should be the other way around.

E.g.

- Newmoon Island is the island closest to the shore which would be Rishiri Island and not Rebun Island.

- Fullmoon Island os furthest from the shore which would be Rebun Island and not Rishiri Island.

Am I missing something or am I right in that the corresponding islands should be the other way around.

Edit: Here is a (fanmade) map that confirms my understanding - for what it is worth.

https://sites.google.com/site/wwwunofficialpokemonsite/detailedmapofsinnoh.png

What do you guys think?

Thanks.

[[User:Jacky88|Jacky88]] ([[User talk:Jacky88|talk]]) 20:41, 21 October 2020 (UTC)

== Burned Tower and Bell Tower ==

The article links the Bell Tower and Burned Tower with the Kinkaku-ji and Ginkaku-ji respectively, but it seems like it is likely a combination of those and Tō-ji and Sai-ji.

The Burned Tower was equal in height (and paired with) the Bell Tower, before it burned down and was not rebuilt.

Sai-ji and Tō-ji were built in 796 as a pair, and in the 9th century pagodas were built (which might be the inspiration for the tower part of the towers. Sai-ji burned down in 990, and again in 1233, and was then abandoned and not rebuilt. Tō-ji still exists. Both, like the Kinkaku-ji and Ginkaku-ji, are also located in Kyoto.

[[User:Verisimilar|Verisimilar]] ([[User talk:Verisimilar|talk]]) 00:46, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

Yeah, the Japanese wiki lists both Kinkaku + Toji for the Tin Tower.

https://wiki.xn--rckteqa2e.com/wiki/%E3%82%B2%E3%83%BC%E3%83%A0%E5%86%85%E3%81%AE%E5%9C%B0%E5%90%8D%E3%81%AE%E3%83%A2%E3%83%87%E3%83%AB%E4%B8%80%E8%A6%A7

[[User:Jacky88|Jacky88]] ([[User talk:Jacky88|talk]]) 11:47, 9 February 2021 (UTC)

== M16 world map image ==

The "Real-world locations mentioned" section includes this bullet point:

* Starting with the sixteenth movie, each Pokémon movie features a recurring globe texture in the intro used to represent the Pokémon world (as opposed to simply featuring randomly-shaped, nondescript landmasses below the clouds): the globe texture features altered landmasses such as one resembling Africa but featuring only the Sahara Desert and the southern half being missing, a large island to the northwest of the Sahara-like landmass, the Arabian Peninsula missing several large chunks, a landmass resembling Australia but rotated 90 degrees clockwise in the middle of a body of water resembling the Indian Ocean, and the northeastern portion of Russia being missing. However, other parts of the globe remain virtually unchanged, like those resembling most of Europe, the Indian subcontinent, Central and Southeast Asia, and Papua New Guinea.

Having checked myself I cannot find the image they are referencing. It's possible that the movie numbering is wrong, given the date of the edit (11 June 2021) they could have meant M20 (can't find the movie to check).
Can anyone provide an image? If not this should probably be removed.
--[[User:Jump Drive|Jump Drive]] ([[User talk:Jump Drive|talk]]) 15:02, 26 February 2022 (UTC)

:I skimmed through M20's intro, and found no such globe. I did the same for M21 and M23 and no globes were present in either. (I skipped M22 because it is more or less a shot-for-shot remake of M01, which had no globe) I did, however, find a globe at the very end of M20, but it featured no discernible landmasses. It's very much possible they either:

* Made the whole thing up, or
* May have been referring to [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/File:Unova_world_map.png this image], which is from the anime, rather than a movie.--[[User:Knowitall|Knowitall]] ([[User talk:Knowitall|talk]]) 17:50, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

== oblivia again ==

While we mostly agree oblivia is based on the oki islands, i think we should give [[Talk:Pokémon world in relation to the real world#Oblivia|this section]] some thoughts too.

Copy paste from original section:

:Milonda Island appears to be based off of Dogo Island. Rainbow Island seems to be based off of a combination of Nishino and Nakano Islands. Drop island appears to be based off of Chiburi Island. They all are part of the Oki Islands. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Oki_Islands.png

:Sopiana Island is without a doubt based off of Ulleungdo Island. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulleungdo

:Thundercloud and Shikulele Island appear to be loosely based off of the Liancourt rocks. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liancourt_Rocks

:All the islands mentioned are found in the sea of Japan north of Chugoku.

-[[User:Pokeant|Pokeant]] ([[User talk:Pokeant|talk]]) 12:28, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

== Eterna Forest = Uryu Experimental Forest? ==

I think this would be a more accurate location, due to the specific location of the Old Chateau (slightly north of Eterna) and Uryu being westward-adjacent to Asahikawa. Thoughts?

[[User:Elementcollector1|Elementcollector1]] ([[User talk:Elementcollector1|talk]]) 07:43, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

== Paldea simply isn't correct right now ==

Porto Marinada is most definitely not Porto except in name. It seems to be a mix of Costa Nova (Aveiro) and Nazaré (the lighthouse matches) or Ponta do Sol (The layout matches).
At most, a parallel can be made with Mercado do Bolhão, a very popular traditional market in Porto, but such place is not exclusive to that city.
So, if anything, Porto Marinada is a mix of all of these.

Cascarrafa, as an (ironically) Spanish person pointed out to me, very much resembles Porto Côvo, Portugal, despite the discrepancy with the location.
Mainly the white and blue houses and sidewalk patterns, but also small details like the bridges seeming to have what looks like calçada portuguesa.
The square patterns also use the dark and white color scheme of calçada portuguesa.

I just compiled some of these comparisons here: https://imgur.com/a/gWg3bF7

Medali is most likely Mérida, famous for its roman theater and, yes also has traditional yellow and white buildings (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%A9rida,_Spain)

Cascarrafa not matching isn't as bad when you consider how Mérida was placed so much to the north, not to mention, of course, Barcelona.

Also, I'll add that the small islands on the West Paldean Sea could very well be the Berlengas (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlengas) {{unsigned|KryptonLion}}

: Thanks for the additions. I was tired as hell near the end of some of the edits I must admit. Porto Marinada does resemble Porto in terms of the map but theming-wise I agree with you [[User:Toffolus|Toffolus]] ([[User talk:Toffolus|talk]]) 04:51, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

:: I made a few more changes and linked evidence for some of them in the Notes. Hopefully that's enough until more convincing evidence comes up. The fact that the most fitting sources doesn't always match the location on the map feels like we're deconstructing the puzzle that Game Freak assembled with pieces of the Iberian peninsula.

:: Also, this is a really crazy stretch but sometimes it comes up in conversation how "Portugal is Lisbon, everything else is landscape/desert", [https://c7.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/ofe015df0/2393635_ZkB61.jpeg with some maps even created to illustrate this mindset]. This is the only way that a massive desert makes sense where Portugal should be. Just throwing the idea out there, as ridiculous as it is. - [[User:KryptonLion|KryptonLion]] ([[User talk:KryptonLion|talk]]) 06:38, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

From what I’ve seen, Game Freak have started being less literal with the locations and more figurative in recent years, particularly with SV and SwSh. This Gen in particular was strange with putting Aneto near where La Rioja is.
Also it’s kinda funny how the rival is from Gibraltar whilst the player is from Spain. I doubt it’s meant to be anything significant but it’s funny
as for what we have now I think it looks fairly good. [[User:Toffolus|Toffolus]] ([[User talk:Toffolus|talk]]) 11:42, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
:::There are no realistic references to Gibraltar being included in Paldea as far as I know.
:::[[User:EdamWint|Edamwint]] ([[User talk:EdamWint|talk]]) 16;40, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

== Portugal-inspired locations in Paldea ==

After the back and forth following the removal of Portugal from five specific locations in the Paldea section and attaching Spanish locations to all of them, here are my arguments for each of these cases:

'''Porto Marinada'''
I believe we reached a consensus on the Costa Nova/Nazaré mashup. Nobody is questioning [https://i.imgur.com/6Hd6IiJ.png the houses' style] and [https://www.cm-nazare.pt/cmnazare/uploads/poi/image/48/porto_de_pesca1.jpg Nazaré has a cliff with a lighthouse perfectly matching the layout], as well as a lesser frequented beach to the north. I still think that [https://i.imgur.com/4KIoFTD.png Ponta do Sol] should be kept in the notes just because of how strikinly similar the waterfront is and the fact that not many towns are located between two cliffs like that. Regarding the market, I completely disagree that it is based on the one in Barcelona, that's quite the reach. This entire town is very clearly inspired by Portugal and there is a perfect candidate for a popular market in this geographic region as the [https://www.jordao.com/uploads/noticias/big_noticia_1663673794_3150.jpg Mercado do Bolhão], in Porto. I'd even argue that the [https://i0.wp.com/portugalconfidential.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Time-Out-Market-Lisbon-Food-Hall-feature.jpeg?fit=1400%2C800&ssl=1 Mercado da Ribeira's interior] in Lisbon is also quite similar.

'''South Province (Area Two)'''
Should remain as it is with Andalusia, Extremadura and Alentejo. These regions are geographically connected, all have a traditionally rooted culture of olive farming and harvesting and their shared landscape is very characteristic. I chose to mention {{wp|Moura,_Portugal|Moura}} as the specific location for the Alentejo region because, [http://www.planicie.pt/2019/11/26/o-alentejo-e-lider-na-olivicultura-moderna-concelho-de-moura-com-2-530-hectares/ from what I've read, it is the leader in olive production, at least nationwide (source in Portuguese).] No reason to exclude a region from being mentioned when it fits the location.

'''West Paldean Sea'''
There aren't many islands near the western coast of Iberia. If we ignore the distant ones like the Azores, then the {{wp|Berlengas}} match the location of the southern ones perfectly. The ones to the north could indeed be the Galician islands with some creative liberty, and I see no reason not to keep them all in the list.

'''Alfornada'''
Is Sagres. As simple as that. The location matches the Sagres Point, the overuse of decorative dishes is clearly inspired by [https://www.impulsiveaddiction.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/casa-artesanato-a-mo-1024x768.jpg Artesanato A Mó], in Sagres. I believe this is the inverse of what the counter-argument for Portugal references usually is: "it's also like that in Spain". In this case, just because there are decorative dishes in Spain, doesn't detract from the fact that this town was chosen, for some reason, to be decorative dish capital of the world. Maybe, just a theory, it has something to do with the development team being intrigued by this obsession with covering walls in dishes at this specific location. There's no other way around, it is Sagres; just with an heavy Moorish influence which is not misplaced given Algarve's history. If this alone isn't enough, it can even be argued that the big building in the city and overall aesthetic take some hints from the [https://i.imgur.com/gfIAHzM.png Algarve Shopping, which notably uses square frames on a "cilindical" tower] and is designed after that same Moorish architecture. Chimneys with that style in the middle of a town? [https://gdamas.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/cegonha-em-silves2.jpg Algarve has you covered] [https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/09/24/73/1e/restaurante-dona-barca.jpg and it's quite common]. This doesn't need to be a huge discussion, the place matches, the theming matches, Alfornada is Sagres and I will rest this case, on to the next:

'''Cascarrafa'''
Until someone can point out an inequivocable real-life equivalent to this city, the best we got is Porto Covo with its [https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/06/82/09/58/hotel-porto-covo.jpg blue and white houses,] [https://i.imgur.com/zLPueZ0.png geometric street patterns] and the {{wp|Portuguese pavement}} style in both those patterns and the bridges. If it takes three Spanish cities to barely get close to this (read: ignoring the pavement, just focusing on blue and white houses) then I think we should stick with the closer match. The argument that this can't be a Portugal-inspired town because the desert right next to it is spelled Asado (as in Spanish) instead of Assado (in Portuguese, same meaning) seems a bit irrelevant. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, but is standing next to a goose, then does it automatically become a goose? Porto Marinada is also by the same desert, yet its Portuguese inspiration is clear. Honestly, I am not fully convinced that Cascarrafa is Porto Covo. There must be a place somewhere in Spain that has the same street patterns, an even better matching house style, a nice plaza with a fountain ([https://www.sines.pt/cmsines/uploads/news/image/698/07Largo_Marqu_s_de_Pombal_-_Porto_Covo.jpg which Porto Covo has, ironically]) but, until we can find it, I truly believe this is the best we got for now.

[[User:KryptonLion|KryptonLion]] ([[User talk:KryptonLion|talk]]) 19:05, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

: For reference, here is an updated compilation of comparisons between several locations in Paldea and real locations in Portugal: https://imgur.com/a/g3JIOlA - [[User:KryptonLion|KryptonLion]] ([[User talk:KryptonLion|talk]]) 15:53, 2 December 2022 (UTC)
::Late but i still feel like Porto M. kinda prolly have some inspirations from Lisbon too. Maybe it's like, Porto and Lisbon smooshed into each other. Or maybe it's just me feeling weird that literally Portugal's capital city has no representation at all in the region. [[User:Anzasquiddles|Anzasquiddles]] ([[User talk:Anzasquiddles|talk]]) 22:05, 2 December 2022 (UTC)
:::It has tho, it's in Mesagoza. Check the compilation or all the references that I added to the Mesagoza section of the article. Lisbon is the third largest city in Iberia, in a way it does make sense that it is smooshed with the other two, Madrid and Barcelona. The architecture is so similar to parts of Mesagoza that most Portuguese people I've seen online noticed it on the very first trailer. I hope the comparison images help put things into perspective for those who aren't as familiar with the city. And Porto Marinada's market interior does heavily resemble Mercado da Ribeira in Lisbon as I've also referenced, but it is mostly Costa Nova in architecture and Nazaré in layout. It references Porto exclusively in name, but even that is not limited to the city of Porto as many other unrelated town names in Portugal use that word (Porto Covo, Porto Moniz, Porto Santo, etc.) - [[User:KryptonLion|KryptonLion]] ([[User talk:KryptonLion|talk]]) 22:50, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

==Saffron and Celadon as Chiyoda and Shinjuku==
The page currently says that Saffron City is based on Chiyoda and Shinjuku, while Celadon City is based on Setagaya and Tama New Town. However, there is just as much evidence to say that Saffron City is based on Chiyoda alone, while Celadon City is based on Setagaya ''and'' Shinjuku.
The biggest piece of evidence is the Magnet Train station. The Magnet Train is based off of the Tokaido Shinkansen, which terminates in Tokyo (Chiyoda) Station. It does not terminate in Shinjuku station. This already implies that Shinjuku and Saffron City are not parallels.

The page then says that Saffron could be based off Shinjuku due to Shinjuku being a major commercial and administrative centre. This is true, but the districts of Chiyoda are even ''more'' of a major commercial and administrative centre. For example, Marunouchi Tokyo's financial district and the country's three largest banks are headquartered there. Otemachi, Marunouchi and Yurakucho combined house the headquarters of 19 Fortune 500 companies, and are the source of roughly 10% of the combined revenue of all Japanese companies according to Wikipedia. Silph Company headquarters are a clear parallel.

It is more likely that ''Celadon City'' is inspired by Shinjuku, as well as Setagaya. The evidence comes in the form of the Celadon Department Store and the Gambling Corner. Shinjuku and neighboring Ikebukuro and Shibuya are famous for their shopping, nightlife, and pachinko parlors. All of these align more with the Department Store and Gambling Corner than anything in Saffron City.

The only evidence I see that Saffron could be based on Shinjuku is its positioning when you superimpose Kanto on a map of real-life Kanto. However, we already know this can't be relied on since Vermillion City is based on Yokohama but located where real-world Chiba should be.

If no one objects, I will update the two cities. At the very least we can add that the Silph Company headquarters reflect the fact that many real-world companies have headquarters in Chiyoda. [[User:Mooites|Mooites]] ([[User talk:Mooites|talk]]) 20:38, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

== Paldea section ==

This section has a fundamental problem. Many speculations are being considered valid as if they were true despite having practically no reference or minimal proof (Ex: Gibraltar in Poco Path or Lisboa in Mesagoza, etc...)

But worst of all, the "Notes" box is filling up with vast and overloaded texts, and sometimes with a certain propaganda essence, as if it were a tourist advertisement.

The Notes are what they are, Notes, that is to say, short descriptions or precise and concise data, not extensive descriptions of historical nature with a certain nationalist air. [[User:Valentio|Valentio]] ([[User talk:Valentio|talk]]) 18:35, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
:I will try to make a synthesis and summary of the current "Notes". Subsequently, their validity will be addressed, some of which are currently questionable. [[User:Valentio|Valentio]] ([[User talk:Valentio|talk]]) 18:37, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
::You have consistently deleted any evidence that goes against your narrative that Paldea is exclusively inspired by Spain. If there's architecture or culture that is common to both Portugal and Spain, then it should be referred to as Iberian. If an NPC is named Maria or José, those are Iberian names. If the architecture, such as the one found in Mesagoza, looks extremely similar to Lisbon, for which there are side by side image comparisons, then it's at the very least arguable that a mention should be made. If it also resembles the architecture from Spanish cities, then it's Iberian architecture as it's shared by at least two of the Iberian countries. The only one running a propaganda campaign here seems to be you. I ask that you please stop removing perfectly valid references to anything that isn't Spain. - [[User:KryptonLion|KryptonLion]] ([[User talk:KryptonLion|talk]]) 18:54, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
:::I understand that you are Portuguese and for some reason you do this, but I must inform you that I am not Spanish, and that you are taking this to quite nationalist grounds.

:::Just try to use clear references, and not mix Spanish and Portuguese culture. [[User:Valentio|Valentio]] ([[User talk:Valentio|talk]]) 19:04, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
::::Y'all can discuss this without touching on nationalism. Stick to the merits for any given location. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]])
:::::Can it get any clearer than side-by-side comparisons? You can't just delete all the references and claim "looks nothing like it" like you're the ultimate arbitrer of visual objectivity. Especially in this case when the Lisbon architecture matches the one in Mesagoza plaza from the walls to the roof, and even the color and style of the parasols down by the same building. Also, the Plaza Mayor of Madrid is closed off and red, while the Praça do Comércio in Lisbon has an open layout and yellow buildings, like in Mesagoza. The only similarity to Plaza Mayor ends up being the roofs and arches, so why can't it possibly be a combination of both? I am adding those references back. I can stand behind shortening the notes, but I am also gonna fix all the gramatical and contextual errors that the culling of the texts created. And to address the other point, Spanish and Portuguese culture are as different as they are similar. I've come to found that while researching for this article and talking Spanish friends who have been telling me what are and aren't shared between both cultures. Olive harvests aren't exclusively Spanish, neither is the coffee culture and azulejos exclusively Portuguese. Churros are certainly Iberian but their origin is contested between Portugal and Spain. These are shared traits and should be mentioned as such. That's very different from trying to forcefully mix cultures or completely ignoring one of them in favor of the other. - [[User:KryptonLion|KryptonLion]] ([[User talk:KryptonLion|talk]]) 19:46, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
::::::Those "references" are not reliable proofs but Original Research made by you, nor "your Spanish friends" are valid proofs.

::::::Mesagoza is a reference to Spain and you can tell by the location, the name of the city since in all languages it refers to a different Spanish cities (Zaragoza, Toledo, Barcelona and Madrid), and not to Lisbon. The plaza is the Plaza Mayor, specified even by NPCs literally, it is also seen on its towers which match with those of Plaza Mayor. And also, many of your references also exist in Madrid.

::::::I recommend you seek consensus instead of pushing your opinions.[[User:Valentio|Valentio]] ([[User talk:Valentio|talk]]) 19:54, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

:::::::I hope you can see the irony of saying that after removing the comparisons and preventing others from making their own judgement. Did you seek consensus? No, you went in and deleted everything because, in your opinion, "it's not even remotely based in Lisbon". When the first trailer released, you could see people online comparing it to Praça do Comércio and also noticing the rose of winds before we even knew if there were concrete references to Portugal at all in the game. At first, I wasn't convinced about Lisbon either and didn't even change the Mesagoza section until I found a good amount of evidence in the favor of that. You left the reference to the Puente de Alcántara, which was also part of that same research, but everything else is invalid? Why, because it's not Spain? If something looks very similar to a real life counterpart, shouldn't it be at the very least mentioned as a possible inspiration? Because that's your argument for Alfornada and Andalusia. - {{unsigned|KryptonLion}}
:::::::::Alfornada has direct references to Spain and its language in its different versions. The same cannot be said of Mesagoza, which does not present evidence of Lisbon in any of its linguistic versions. That is the main difference.

:::::::::"People online comparing..." does not seem like a reasonable or reliable source either. And many of your references are very far-fetched or directly also exist in Madrid and in other Spanish cities where Mesagoza is based.[[User:Valentio|Valentio]] ([[User talk:Valentio|talk]]) 20:33, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

::::::::I agree with KryptonLion. There's no reason why Paldea is exclusively Spanish. On the top of the page, it says "This article contains fan speculation. There is no solid evidence for or against some parts of this article." But I agree, there shouldn't be sections with very little evidence/speculation that is out of left field,(the Andorra section). But when there's some relation, I think it should be added. There are sections of the page that makes even less sense (the desert in Unova as the world trade center cite as an example).
::::::::Nemona's house definitely has some references to Gibraltar. Location wise, it fits perfectly. Also, the Great Ball is clearly a small nod to Great Britain. The only other great ball in the area is the one next to a tree behind the fence of your house.I don't think anyone (the devs or otherwise) would explicitly confirm nor deny small nods anyways.[[User:Pipcrew|Pipcrew]] ([[User talk:Pipcrew|talk]]) 20:40, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
:::::::::Nobody said that Paldea is exclusively Spain. And the notes cannot be literally the first thing that comes to mind, they need clear references , nor can be huge texts, they are notes as the name indicates.[[User:Valentio|Valentio]] ([[User talk:Valentio|talk]]) 20:47, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

::::::::::I agree, that they shouldn't be huge texts, but I respectfully disagree with how the references need to be clear when a lot of the page gives locations that make less sense than Gibraltar (Join avenue as the empire state building and unova route 4 as the world trade center site with no references to interviews, in game dialogue etc) when location wise, Gibraltar fits perfectly. It's a really small nod (the great ball) but it fits. I really don't think the devs would put a "Nemona's house is owned by Galar" or anything explicit like that.
::::::::::The North Paldean Sea/Llívia-Andorra makes even less sense as they are both in the Pyrenees and location wise would fit more with País Vasco and Navarra. [[User:Pipcrew|Pipcrew]] ([[User talk:Pipcrew|talk]]) 21:07, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

:::::::::::Yes, I agree that this about Andorra and Llivia is quite far-fetched, even so I think there are references to Andorra. I will look for references from Andorra when I can.

:::::::::::I don't think there are any references to Gibraltar. Poco Path in Spanish is Sendero Cahiz, a reference to Cadiz, so it is much more likely that it is the city of Algeciras, in Cadiz, which also coincides perfectly in geography. A "Great Ball" item as a reference to the United Kingdom seems very farfetched to me, I wouldn't take that as a reference, honestly. Cabo Poco is also a word in Spanish, and is a reference to a cape, which is really what the place is. [[User:Valentio|Valentio]] ([[User talk:Valentio|talk]]) 21:19, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

::::::::::::I agree that the Gibraltar reference should be added back. The location and topology match, unlike unfortunately Andorra. I will echo what has been said in an edit comment a while back: Gibraltar is disputed between Spain and the UK, so it's no surprise that the Spanish translation would rather reference Cadíz. Again, town names (apart from the French which are mostly on point), are very unreliable, such as Levincia being called Fermanca (from Salamanca, on the other side of the peninsula) in German. Ideally, we should be looking at geography first. If that doesn't match, then are there clear references such as in Mesagoza and Barcelona? Then, what other details can we take from the location, such as the theater from Mérida in Medali or the rose of winds from Lisbon in Mesagoza. The names can hint at specific places (Porto Marinada), the biggest city in the area (Frigao), or be completely off-base (Fermanca), so Cahiz shouldn't deter us for keeping the Gibraltar reference, especially with the potential Great Ball reference. - [[User:KryptonLion|KryptonLion]] ([[User talk:KryptonLion|talk]]) 21:33, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
::::::::::::::No, it's not just the Spanish version. No version of the game references Gibraltar, and all versions refer to Spanish words and places. Algeciras also match in location and has much more sense.

::::::::::::::English: Cabo Poco - From cabo (cape) and poco (little in Spanish)
::::::::::::::German: Cucharico - From cucharita (Spanish for teaspoon) and rico (Spanish for rich)
::::::::::::::Spanish: Pueblo Cahíz - From Cadíz
::::::::::::::French: Cuchalaga - From cuchara (Spanish for spoon) and Málaga
::::::::::::::Italian: Dosilla - From dosis (Spanish for dose), -illa (Spanish diminutive suffix), and possibly Sevilla

::::::::::::::A Great Ball is neither a reference to the UK nor a reasonable piece of evidence, let's be honest. The place is clearly a reference to southern Andalusia as all the names suggest.[[User:Valentio|Valentio]] ([[User talk:Valentio|talk]]) 21:45, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

The name does not necessarily need to reference the location as shown in the previous games. (Turffield and York for a more recent example). There's no reason why it can't be both algeciras and gibraltar. By that logic, Porto Marinada can only be Porto. It seems to me that the only name reference is the from the spanish translation. I'm not saying to disregard the Spanish translation, but I don't think the name in the Spanish should say it's only reference point. How is the Great Ball not a reference to Great Britain when it's the only one in the area? Having a higher quality pokeball in the beginning of the game is odd. Gibraltar was taken from Spain when the country was called Great Britain, not England not the United Kingdom.

As I said before, the entirety of this page is fan speculation. I quote from the top of the page "There is no solid evidence for or against some parts of this article" If you're giving this much scrutiny towards Spain, why not the others? I can give you more parts of Unova that make absolutely no sense. You'd need to remove a lot of this page due to how explicit you seem to want the page to be. To reiterate, I agree that references to real places should have some evidence and not out of left field. But Gibraltar is more of a nod than anything. And geographically it makes absolute sense.

Andorra doesn't seem to have references as explicit as what you ask either. Just geographically, it's more in país vasco and navarra. [[User:Pipcrew|Pipcrew]] ([[User talk:Pipcrew|talk]]) 03:37, 4 December 2022 (UTC)

I also agree that Nemona’s house is a reference to Gibraltar due to the fact that geographically, Cabo Poco matches up almost perfectly with the Bay of Gibraltar. If Gamefreak didn’t want to include any reference to it, they wouldn’t have made the bay curve like they did in the game.
It’s also again worth stating that just because the town’s name isn’t a direct reference doesn’t mean it isn’t one. Otherwise 90% of the towns wouldn’t supposedly be based on anything.

Also my reasoning as to the Andorra and Llívia inclusion is because they’re disconnected from the rest of the Iberian countries, and so them being islands would have served as a fun literal way of illustrating that. Though on closer analysis, Andorra directly borders Spain so this connection doesn’t hold up. [[User:Toffolus|Toffolus]] ([[User talk:Toffolus|talk]]) 12:03, 4 December 2022 (UTC)

::I agree. I don't think there's a reason why Cabo Poco should only be Algeciras when Algeciras and Gibraltar are practically next to each other. That's why on the original edit, the player's house would be Algeciras and Nemona's house would be Gibraltar, when in game text also mentions them as neighbors.
::For Andorra, I think one of the islands in the north has a similar shape, so I think it's sort of fine to leave it as long as the shape of the island is mentioned.
::As a side note, to me, Catalonia and northern Aragon isn't directly on the map as it looks like it would be in the striped section. Hopefully there'd be DLC for that.[[User:Pipcrew|Pipcrew]] ([[User talk:Pipcrew|talk]]) 21:08, 4 December 2022 (UTC)

== Is Alfornada a city exclusively based on Portugal? It doesn't look like it according to the game ==

Alfornada is a city with visible Moorish and even Mudejar architecture, a very common architectural style in Andalusia. The decorative plates on the walls of the houses are also characteristic of the folkloric houses of Andalusia. The Alfornada ovens are also very similar to those of Andalucia, as are the chimneys.

To all this, and here comes the important point, Alfornada in other languages gives more information about its influences:

- The word "Forno", present in the English, French and Spanish versions, also means oven in the Galician language.

- In German, Alfornada is called Asarilla, from "Asar" (Spanish for "to roast") and Sevilla.

- In Italian, Alfornada is literally Spanish language. It is called "Las Brasas" (Spanish for "the embers")

So I think it's obvious that it's also partly based on Spain, especially the Moorish side of Andalusia. [[User:Valentio|Valentio]] ([[User talk:Valentio|talk]]) 19:38, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

: That same architecture can be found in Algarve, where the city matches geographically. The names of the towns in other languages aren't reliable, especially German who calls the obviously inspired by Costa Nova "Puerto", and what everyone agrees to be "Plato", they call "Prato", the Portuguese word for it. Fornada is a batch of baked goods in Portuguese, and Al is the arabic definite article, which can also be found in Algarve (Al-Gharb) and other Moorish influced words and location names. Alfornada literally means "the batch". Also, in French, every town seems to reference a real-life geographic match much more closely, and in this case the name Alforneira comes from Albufeira, in Algarve. I think a note could be added about also resembling Andalusia, but it's overwhelmingly clear that this is a heavily inspired Moorish town with a lot of references to its real-life location in Algarve. - [[User:KryptonLion|KryptonLion]] ([[User talk:KryptonLion|talk]]) 19:56, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
::"The names of the towns in other languages aren't reliable"

::In fact, yes they are. The names of the cities in different languages refer to the inspirations they took. Its something pretty common in Pokémon.

::Fornada also literally means the same thing in Catalan and Galician (batch of baked goods), and Al is also an Arabic prefix in Spain, very present in Andalusia, formerly Al-Andalus, or even in the current Andalusian city of Almería.

::Taking into account that all the architecture of Alfornada also exists in Andalusia, I see obvious that it can also be based in Andalusia. In Italian, it's even "Las Brasas", a phrase entirely in the Spanish language.[[User:Valentio|Valentio]] ([[User talk:Valentio|talk]]) 19:38, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

:::What you are saying may be true, but the "problem" with that is that Spain and Portugal have a lot in common... What I mean by this is that it would probably be possible to argue that both countries inspired almost all locations in the game. Therefore, unless we find some irrefutable evidence that suggests that a given place is indeed inspired by both countries (e.g., Mesagoza), it would be best to opt for the most obvious choice (in this case, Portugal). As KryptonLion has pointed out, the location, name, houses, and landmarks perfectly match with the Algarve region of Portugal (mainly Sagres). What seals the deal (at least to me) is that KryptonLion has also provided concrete examples of landmarks that are clearly inspired by Algarve. Thus, I think that Algarve is the way to go. Again, I think that we should consider that Alfornada is based solely on Portugal because, otherwise, this article would become a mess since every single location could be a reference to both countries (and maybe also Andorra). I just think that, in this case, Valentio's arguments simply pale in comparison to KryptonLion's.[[User:SleepySheep|SleepySheep]] ([[User talk:SleepySheep|talk]]) 22:19, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

::::I mean, you could hide better the fact that you are a new account to serve as sockpuppet of [[User:KryptonLion|KryptonLion]]. At this rate, I'm going to have to report you for multi-account. [[User:Valentio|Valentio]] ([[User talk:Valentio|talk]])

:::::No, I'm not... Why would assume that? Just because I agree with KryptonLion? That's so sad... I am sorry, but I am just stating my opinion, and I don't agree with you in this case. You don't have to take it personally. I tried to be nice to you, I don't get why you are being so rude to me. For the record, I seriously doubt that making these kinds of accusations without proof is okay but whatever, keep crying about it. Also, what if that was my first post? Everyone has to make their first post eventually...[[User:SleepySheep|SleepySheep]] ([[User talk:SleepySheep|talk]]) 23:03, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
::::::You are a new account, and your first contribution is to go to the Talk Page to agree with [[User:KryptonLion|KryptonLion]] when, coincidentally, a consensus is being sought with Alfornada and Mesagoza. And not only that, but also your IP instead matches that of KryptonLion. Don't try to fool anyone, It's unfortunate what you are doing.

::::::I was thinking of turning a blind eye, but now you've definitely earned the report.[[User:Valentio|Valentio]] ([[User talk:Valentio|talk]])

::::::If you really want to, go for it, I honestly don't care. But I have told you once and I'll tell you again: I am not KryptonLion. Believe me if you want. I love how you mention my IP, as if that is actually true! Also, I think that I created this account about a week ago, so yeah. Just don't bother me anymore with this.[[User:SleepySheep|SleepySheep]] ([[User talk:SleepySheep|talk]]) 23:30, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
::::::: You are a Sockpuppet account with the same location of KryptonLion and whose only contribution is to agree with him in a moment of reaching consensus after an Edit Warring by KryptonLion. You are already reported. "If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it's probably a duck." [[User:Valentio|Valentio]] ([[User talk:Valentio|talk]])

{{indent}}I'm gonna pop in here just for a tangential comment... Valentio, your recent posts are feeling pretty harassing. I will consult with staff about whether this warrants a block. (To SleepySheep: I'm sorry you had to deal with this sort of thing.) Let's please continue things without personal attacks. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 23:48, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
:Just adding here that Valentio (through the Albertote alt) did end up providing the forementioned irrefutable evidence in the form of the ovens of Seville, which from what I've seen do not have a similar Algarvian counterpart. Since it doesn't detract from the other evidence in favor of Sagres and Algarve in general, this seems to be another case of a mashup like Mesagoza and I agree it's worth keeping the mention of Seville as a specific location along with it. - [[User:KryptonLion|KryptonLion]] ([[User talk:KryptonLion|talk]]) 03:23, 4 December 2022 (UTC)

::It turns out that there are Portuguese counterparts to those ovens, although not in Algarve. The [https://photo620x400.mnstatic.com/53c4019460f47088bd93b2bc0ac9369d/fornos-de-ceramica-_-fabrica-de-ceramicas-de-massarelos.jpg Fábrica de Louça de Massarelos] had several of these, of which only two remain. Coincidentally, the same number as the ones found in Alfornada. The ones in Alfornada are, however, clearly modeled after the Seville ovens and therefore those should remain as the ones being referenced in the article. - [[User:KryptonLion|KryptonLion]] ([[User talk:KryptonLion|talk]]) 04:29, 4 December 2022 (UTC)

:On the note of names, Galician is from the same branch as Portuguese, hence the similarities in the two languages given the proximity of the regions. The locations also do not correspond to the territories of where said languages are spoken. Galician is spoken in the northwestern parts of Spain, while Catalan is spoken in the eastern parts of Spain. Neither of which correspond to the Alfornada which is located in the southwestern part of the peninsula.
:That said, Game Freak has been known to take creative liberties, so it's not surprising that they would take elements from both countries and merge them to a single entity. The pottery theme in Alfornada might allude to the [https://www.visitasevilla.es/en/history/ceramics ceramic industry] in Seville. --[[User:神奇超龍|'''超龍''']]「'''[[User talk:神奇超龍|Chao]]'''」 01:56, 5 December 2022 (UTC)

== Real-life counterpart of National Park and Pokéathlon ==

So I have been looking through [https://www.google.com/maps/place/Hattori+Ryokuchi+Park/@34.7772468,135.4852797,938m Google Maps] and I found out that [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hattori_Ryokuchi_Park Hattori Ryokuchi Park] has '''exactly the same layout''' as National Park, especially the perfect circle in the middle (which was altered into a Pokéball shape in the game-counterpart). And directly to the west, there are sports fields, serving multiple sports just like Pokéathlon. And to the south of it, there's a pond with a walking pathway at the edge, similar to how Pokéathlon is located next to water. This is just too perfect not to be true, plus it's located in Osaka, near Expo 70' (the one stated to be the real-life counterpart on this page). --[[User:Nhan Pro|Nhan Pro]] ([[User talk:Nhan Pro|talk]]) 14:29, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

Good find! I love it when things like this are discovered. [[User:Fizzyade|Fizzyade]] ([[User talk:Fizzyade|talk]]) 09:25, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

== Northern Areas of Paldea ==

Hi guys, my first major edit of this page was to add some stuff about northern province 1 and 2 to the Paldea section. As it's my first major change, and I am not mega sure I'm on the right track with it, I'd love any and all feedback the community wants to give. I admit the bamboo part in particular is quite tenuous but it's all I could find so far. Much obliged and well done everyone, this is one of my fave wiki pages anywhere! [[User:Fizzyade|Fizzyade]] ([[User talk:Fizzyade|talk]]) 09:25, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

== Ferrum ==
Hey again folks, don't want to clog this up too much. But on the subject of Ferrum, I see some have associated it with Sardinia, and I'd like to ask why that is. Far be it for me to simply declare I don't see it, as I am by no means familiar with the place and am open to the idea. However after looking into it, the geographic shape is really rather similar to iriomote, and some of the scenery is evocative (though as usual, exaggerated and so on). Whereas the references to Sardinia are, to my mind and eyes, quite obscure. Just an invitation to be filled in, really.
[[User:Fizzyade|Fizzyade]] ([[User talk:Fizzyade|talk]]) 15:03, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
:I don't play Pokken but Iriomote could be a possible inspiration. You prolly just need to try and match the Ferrum cities and places and whatever to Iriomote to further support your claim. [[User:Anzasquiddles|Anzasquiddles]] ([[User talk:Anzasquiddles|talk]]) 15:31, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
::Very true, I did some digging and there's a bit of an oddity here. To my eye, the island is evocative of both Iriomote and Sardinia in shape but has more overall similarity to Iriomote, and has architecture which is more reminiscent of Sardinia - old Ferrum town's building is evocative of an ancient, dome roofed church found in Nuxis (Parrocchia San Pietro Apostolo) which tracks somewhat with the current information on the page. On my lunch break at work I made a satellite image to game island image comparison and posted it, as I was fairly happy with how similar these islands looked, however, I do think they have done a Hoenn on it and shifted certain smaller features around, and I am still not quite convinced that I have the real life image rotated at the right angle to the game map. My intuition is that they may have based a lot of the geography on the Japanese island, but added some European flavour, as has been demonstrated with the ranger games also having an Italian flavour but actually being based on Japanese locales. It has left me at a bit of a dilemma though, as I do not have the game and there's very little good images or video of the stages without being gameplay. Even the image I used to show Ferrum I can only find in one or two places online, not sure where it came from, but seems to be a composite skillfully made from the game map. Honestly, I think others will need chip in to help with this one! [[User:Fizzyade|Fizzyade]] ([[User talk:Fizzyade|talk]]) 19:51, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

== Crown Tundra ==
Just a quick one to open up any discussion or feedback on my adding the slippery slope, max lair and frostpoint field entries, or discussion about any other possible additions. (Apologies to the mods if my doing this is annoying - I do it because I am always a bit hesitant to add anything based on how much of this work is interpretative). [[User:Fizzyade|Fizzyade]] ([[User talk:Fizzyade|talk]]) 23:02, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

== Anville Town update? ==

I want to dispute Anville Town’s relation to Port Jervis, New York because I think Binghamton, New York is a better fit. The main arguments for Port Jervis is that it had a roundhouse and turntable, set in the correct geographical direction, and that it is the end of the Metro North Line. Binghamton, NY however fits these specifications more. Port Jervis lost its roundhouse back in the 1970s, whereas Binghamton’s roundhouse and turntable is still there and it is the only place in the right geographical area that still has both their roundhouse and turntable ([https://www.steamlocomotive.com/roundhouse/?state=NY see map]). The other two areas that have both are Manchester, NY which is a little too north to be Anville Town and Buffalo which wouldn’t be characterized as a small town. Binghamton also was at one-point part of the same North Metro Line as Port Jervis.

[[User:PokeRadMade|PokeRadMade]] ([[User talk:PokeRadMade|talk]]) 19:45, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

== Mossui Town and Blueberry Academy ==

I don't think the real world locations given for the Scarlet and Violet DLC locations are correct. Official materials constantly reference Mossui Town as part of Kitakami, and they refer to Kitakami as its own region. Mention people coming ''to'' Paldea from Kitakami and Blueberry. This is in contrast to the Isle of Armor and Crown Tundra, which were consistently referred to as or implied to be a part of Galar.

The location given for Mossui Town is Coria del Río, Andalusia, Spain; this isn't really possible for two reasons. The first is that again, Mossui is stated to be in Kitakami, not Paldea. The second is that this town is part of the metropolitan area of Seville, a city which is partial inspiration for Alfornado. None of the landmarks we see in Kitakami line up with anything we see in Alfornado, let alone in Southwest Paldea as a whole.

It seems far more likely to me that Kitakami is based on somewhere in rural, mountainous Japan; likely the Tohoku region.

The location given for Blueberry Academy is also likely incorrect, as nowhere in the trailers or footage do we even see the coastline. The L'Umbracle and the Palau de les Arts Reina Sofía are in Valencia, the inspiration for Levincia. Instead, those two landmarks likely helped influence Levincia itself, given it has an island of towers and a bridge covered in arches.

There simply isn't enough information on Blueberry Academy yet to feasibly place it on a map yet. For all we know, it could be near Kitakami, or it could be an entirely fictional location with no real world counterpart. It's better to wait and see.

--[[User:Kamidio|Kamidio]] ([[User talk:Kamidio|talk]]) 22:30, 30 August 2023 (UTC)