Bulbapedia - User contributions [en]

LostGar (TCG)

2011-05-20T00:22:03Z

Jawsisra: /* Possible Tech Cards */

{{ArchetypeInfobox
|title=LostGar
|image=GengarTriumphant94.jpg
|image2=LostWorldCallLegends81.jpg
|caption=[[Gengar (Triumphant 94)|Gengar Prime]] and {{TCG|Lost World}}
|cards=[[Gengar (Triumphant 94)|Gengar Prime]], {{TCG|Lost World}}, {{TCG ID|Legends Awakened|Uxie|43}}, and {{TCG ID|Undaunted|Smeargle|8}}
|types={{e|Psychic}} {{e|Water}} {{e|Colorless}}
|era=2011
}}
'''LostGar''' is a popular {{TCG|deck archetype}} in competitive [[Pokémon Trading Card Game]] play. It is based on the combination of [[Gengar (Triumphant 94)|Gengar Prime]] and {{TCG|Lost World}}. Variants of the deck dominated Pokémon Organized Play for several months in {{wp|Japan}} after {{TCG|Lost World}}'s release in the {{TCG|Lost Link}} mini-series. Because of the deck's success overseas, LostGar was immensely hyped in the western Pokémon Trading Card Game community. With Lost World being only recently released in the {{TCG|Call of Legends}} expansion, the deck has had few chances to perform in tournaments in the United States. As a result, any "typical" decklist is tentative. It is unknown how the deck will perform in large Pokémon Organized Play events during the second half of the 2010-2011 season, but the community expects it to be a top contender.

==Strategy==
[[File:025691 P DOBURU.jpg|thumb|left|{{TCG ID|Undaunted|Smeargle|8}}]]
While most deck archetypes focus on taking six prizes to satisfy the game's traditional win condition, LostGar attempts to place six of the opponent's Pokémon in the Lost Zone to win with {{TCG|Lost World}}. To do this, the deck employs the effects of [[Gengar (Triumphant 94)|Gengar Prime]], {{TCG ID|Platinum|Palkia G LV.X|125}}, and {{TCG ID|Call of Legends|Mime Jr.|47}}. The deck has three passable starters, immediately giving it an advantage over decks that run fewer. {{TCG ID|Stormfront|Gastly|62}} can lock down the opponent early in the game by preventing him or her from playing {{TCG|Trainer card}}s with its ''Pitch Dark'' attack. Against Trainer-heavy decks such as {{TCG|Gyarados archetype|Gyarados}} and {{TCG|LuxChomp}}, ''Pitch Dark'' can buy LostGar valuable time to set up. {{TCG ID|Undaunted|Smeargle|8}} is also a solid start, as it can allow the LostGar player to use an additional {{TCG|Supporter card}} each turn with its ''Portrait'' {{TCG|Poké-Power}}. LostGar's third good start is {{TCG ID|Call of Legends|Mime Jr.|47}}. While the other two Pokémon mentioned here help LostGar stall the opponent and set up faster, respectively, Mime Jr. actually advances the deck's win condition. In combination with {{TCG ID|Supreme Victors|Chatot G|54}}'s ''Disrupting Spy'' Poké-Power, Mime Jr. can place multiple opponent's Pokémon in the Lost Zone before he or she can respond by knocking it out.

The deck's primary attacker is [[Gengar (Triumphant 94)|Gengar Prime]]. Using a combination of speed Supporter cards, such as {{TCG|Cyrus's Conspiracy}} and {{TCG|Pokémon Collector}}, and drawing Poké-Powers such as Smeargle's ''Portrait'' and {{TCG ID|Legends Awakened|Uxie|43}}'s ''Set Up'', LostGar attempts to get multiple Gengar Prime up and running early in the game. Additionally, a miniature [[Engine (TCG)#SP engine|SP engine]] can assist in getting {{TCG ID|Platinum|Palkia G LV.X|125}} onto the field. From there, the deck simply uses Gengar Prime's ''Hurl into Darkness'' attack in combination with Palkia G LV.X's ''Lost Cyclone'' Poké-Power to place six of the opponent's Pokémon in the Lost Zone. {{TCG|Seeker}} is also vitally important to the deck, as it ensures at least one Pokémon in the opponent's hand to target with ''Hurl into Darkness''. Once there are six Pokémon in the opponent's Lost Zone, the LostGar player simply plays {{TCG|Lost World}} as soon as possible to declare themselves the winner of the game.

==Key Cards==
[[File:SeekerTriumphant88.jpg|thumb|right|{{TCG|Seeker}}]]
* '''[[Gengar (Triumphant 94)|Gengar Prime]]''' - As the deck's main attacker, Gengar Prime is arguably the most important Pokémon in LostGar. With its ''Hurl Into Darkness'' attack, Gengar Prime can put Pokémon from the opponent's hand into the [[Glossary (TCG)#Lost Zone|Lost Zone]] equal to the number of {{e|Psychic}} energies attached to it. Additionally, Gengar Prime's ''Catastrophe'' {{TCG|Poké-Power|Poké-Body}} states that any opponent's Pokémon knocked out while Gengar Prime is active are placed into the Lost Zone instead of the discard. With ''Hurl Into Darkness'' and ''Catastrophe'', and thus an ability to place Pokémon into the Lost Zone quickly, Gengar Prime provides the perfect complement to {{TCG|Lost World}}.
* '''{{TCG ID|Undaunted|Smeargle|8}}''' - Smeargle is the deck's ideal start. With its ''Portrait'' {{TCG|Poké-Power}}, Smeargle has the ability to allow LostGar an extra {{TCG|Supporter card|Supporter}} play each turn, which can greatly improve the deck's set up speed early in the game. Additionally, when a Gengar Prime is knocked out, the LostGar player can bring up Smeargle to gain its effect and then retreat it into another Gengar Prime. The deck's dependence on Smeargle for a fast start is the chief reason many builds run two {{TCG ID|Majestic Dawn|Unown Q|49}}; with Unown Q attached, the LostGar player does not have to pay to retreat Smeargle.
* '''{{TCG ID|Legends Awakened|Uxie|43}}''' - Uxie is the deck's primary drawing effect. Its ''Set Up'' Poké-Power allows the player to draw until he or she has seven cards in hand when it is played.
* '''{{TCG|Cyrus's Conspiracy}}''' - Although some builds, especially those utilizing [[Mew (Triumphant 97)|Mew Prime]], do not run Cyrus's Conspiracy, it is crucial in any variant running {{TCG ID|Platinum|Palkia G LV.X|125}} and/or the {{TCG ID|Call of Legends|Mime Jr.|47}}/{{TCG ID|Supreme Victors|Chatot G|54}}| combination. Cyrus's Conspiracy allows the LostGar player to grab any Supporter card, any ''Team Galactic's Invention'', and any [[Energy card (TCG)#Basic Energy cards|Basic Energy card]] from his or her deck. Since the deck runs a variety of Supporters, two different ''Team Galactic's Invention'' cards, and ten Basic Energies, Cyrus's Conspiracy will almost always yield at least two helpful cards, making it one of the most important cards in the deck.
* '''{{TCG|Seeker}}''' - Seeker is the primary card that allows Gengar Prime's ''Hurl into Darkness'' to be effective. The card's effect forces the opponent to pick up one of his or her Pokémon off the bench, placing it in the hand. Seeker guarantees that, regardless of the opponent's ability to get Pokémon out of hir or her hand, ''Hurl into Darkness'' will be able to send at least one Pokémon into the Lost Zone. Additionally, Seeker can allow the LostGar player to scoop up a damaged Gengar Prime, reuse {{TCG ID|Legends Awakened|Uxie|43}}'s ''Set Up'' Poké-Power, or generally open up a bench spot, making at a versatile card and arguably the most important {{TCG|Supporter card|Supporter}} in LostGar.
* '''{{TCG|Lost World}}''' - LostGar's entire premise is based off the win condition presented by Lost World. If the opponent has six or more Pokémon in the Lost Zone and Lost World is on the field, the LostGar player can declare him- or herself the winner of the game. The deck's strategy revolves around using whatever means possible to get six of the opponent's Pokémon in the Lost Zone and subsequently using Lost World to win the game immediately following.
* '''{{TCG|Broken Time-Space}}''' - Although some would not consider Broken Time-Space a staple card of LostGar, the ability to evolve quickly is critical. Getting Gengar Prime onto the field early in the game and beginning to use ''Hurl into Darkness'' can result in several of the opponent's Pokémon being sent to the Lost Zone before he or she has the opportunity to set up. In essence, Broken Time-Space is the most important card for the purpose of getting Gengar Prime out quickly.

==Typical decklist==
{{DeckArchetype}}
{{decklist/header}}
{{decklist/entry|1|{{TCG ID|Arceus|Gengar LV.X|97}}|Psychic||Rare Holo LV.X}}
{{decklist/entry|3|{{TCG ID|Triumphant|Gengar|94}}|Psychic||Rare Holo}}
{{decklist/entry|3|{{TCG ID|Stormfront|Haunter|40}}|Psychic||Uncommon}}
{{decklist/entry|4|{{TCG ID|Stormfront|Gastly|62}}|Psychic||Common}}
{{decklist/entry|4|{{TCG ID|Undaunted|Smeargle|8}}|Colorless||Rare Holo}}
{{decklist/entry|1|{{TCG ID|Platinum|Palkia G LV.X|125}}|Water||Rare Holo LV.X}}
{{decklist/entry|2|{{TCG ID|Platinum|Palkia G|12}}|Water||Rare Holo}}
{{decklist/entry|2|{{TCG ID|Call of Legends|Mime Jr.|47}}|Psychic||Uncommon}}
{{decklist/entry|1|{{TCG ID|Supreme Victors|Chatot G|54}}|Colorless||Uncommon}}
{{decklist/entry|2|{{TCG ID|Legends Awakened|Uxie|43}}|Psychic||Rare}}
{{decklist/entry|2|{{TCG ID|Majestic Dawn|Unown Q|49}}|Psychic||Uncommon}}
{{decklist/entry|2|{{TCG|Bebe's Search}}|Supporter||Uncommon}}
{{decklist/entry|3|{{TCG|Pokémon Collector}}|Supporter||Uncommon}}
{{decklist/entry|3|{{TCG|Cyrus's Conspiracy}}|Supporter||Uncommon}}
{{decklist/entry|3|{{TCG|Seeker}}|Supporter||Uncommon}}
{{decklist/entry|2|{{TCG|Twins}}|Supporter||Uncommon}}
{{decklist/entry|1|{{TCG|Palmer's Contribution}}|Supporter||Uncommon}}
{{decklist/entry|1|{{TCG|Luxury Ball}}|Trainer||Uncommon}}
{{decklist/entry|2|{{TCG|Team Galactic's Invention G-105 Poké Turn|Poké Turn}}|Trainer||Uncommon}}
{{decklist/entry|2|{{TCG|Team Galactic's Invention G-109 SP Radar|SP Radar}}|Trainer||Uncommon}}
{{decklist/entry|2|{{TCG|Warp Point}}|Trainer||Uncommon}}
{{decklist/entry|2|{{TCG|Lost World}}|Stadium||Uncommon}}
{{decklist/entry|3|{{TCG|Broken Time-Space}}|Stadium||Uncommon}}
{{decklist/entry|9|{{TCG|Psychic Energy}}|Energy|Psychic|-}}
{{decklist/footer}}

==Possible Tech Cards==
[[File:025577 P RAFURESHIA.jpg|thumb|left|{{TCG ID|Undaunted|Vileplume|24}}]]
''The following cards are often used in LostGar in place of certain cards included in the above list.''
* '''{{TCG ID|Undaunted|Vileplume|24}}''' - The addition of Vileplume, generally in combination with {{TCG ID|Arceus|Spiritomb|32}}, transforms a typical LostGar list into a variant of {{TCG|VileGar}}. While the objective is still to win with {{TCG|Lost World}}'s win condition, Vileplume's ''Allergy Pollen'' Poké-Body allows for significant disruption. By preventing the opponent from playing {{TCG|Trainer card}}s, Vileplume can greatly slow down his or her set up. This dampens the opponent's ability to take prizes quickly, giving LostGar a longer period in which to place the opponent's Pokémon into the Lost Zone. Vileplume is one of the most common LostGar techs, and it typically takes the place of {{TCG ID|Platinum|Palkia G LV.X|125}}.
* '''{{TCG ID|Triumphant|Spiritomb|10}}''' - Spiritomb is used to force the opponent to shuffle his or her hand into the deck. Although giving the opponent free hand refreshment would often be counterproductive, it actually gives Gengar Prime the opportunity to place more Pokémon into the Lost Zone with ''Hurl into Darkness''. With many decks running {{TCG|Junk Arm}} and {{TCG ID|Legends Awakened|Regice|36}} to practice hand control and limit the number of Pokémon in hand, ''Hurl into Darkness'' can occasionally prove ineffective. Spiritomb provides the means to erase any form of hand control the opponent has used.
* '''{{TCG ID|Stormfront|Gengar|18}}''' - This Gengar assists LostGar with certain difficult matchups where it may be difficult to place the opponent's Pokémon in the Lost Zone. Against certain decks built specifically to counter LostGar, such as some {{TCG|Donkphan}} variants, the {{TCG|Stormfront}} Gengar can take prizes to fulfill the traditional win condition.
* '''{{TCG|Junk Arm}}''' - Against opposing LostGar decks, Junk Arm can provide a way to get Pokémon out of the hand while assisting the deck's speed by allowing it to reuse {{TCG|Trainer card|Trainer cards}}.
* '''{{TCG|Warp Energy}}''' - Warp Energy helps LostGar take advantage of its multiple {{TCG|Seeker}}. Although Seeker is used primarily to force the opponent to pick up one of his or her Pokémon, Warp Energy allows the deck to take full advantage of it by placing a damaged Gengar Prime on the bench to be scooped up and healed.
* '''{{TCG|Rescue Energy}}''' - Often used in place of {{TCG|Palmer's Contribution}}, Rescue Energy allows LostGar to immediately recycle knocked out Gengar Primes. Keeping up a steady onslaught of Gengar Prime's ''Hurl into Darkness'' attack is vital to continously placing the opponent's Pokémon into the Lost Zone, so Rescue Energy is a common addition to the deck.
* '''{{TCG ID|Call of Legends|Slowking|32}}''' - This Slowking is great to go with Mime Jr from Call of Legends. With this Slowking you can arange the cards so you always hit a Pokemon with Sleepy Lost.

{{Project TCG notice}}

[[Category:Deck archetypes]]

Talk:Rotation (TCG)

2011-05-20T00:17:09Z

Jawsisra: /* Newer sets */

Please help me clean up this page by:
1. Creating links to all the mentioned TCG sets,
2. Writing articles on all the red links, such as the Holon Engine.

If I think up anything else, I'll add it. I'll also try to work on these myself.
00:54, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

== New sets ==

This is a minor concern, but please make sure that a set is released in stores before adding it to the current metagame. I noticed that someone added {{TCG|Legends Awakened}} before it's release date, and that is incorrect. Technically, even if prereleases for a set have taken place, a set is not legal until it hits stores. Thank you. --[[User:Politoed666|ニョロトノ]][[User talk:Politoed666|''666'']] 16:42, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

:Yeah, I added it without thinking as soon as we finished the Legends Awakened pages. I've been to enough prereleases to know the cards aren't legal until release, so this was just a minor error. Incidentally, however, you've edited the page too early: officially, the new rotation doesn't come into effect until September 1 of every year, regardless of when Worlds takes place. [[User:Cipher|Double Dash]] 16:50, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

== Legend Collection and Basic Energies ==

Is Legend Collection out of rotation as well? Can basic energies be used from any expansion packs?

:Yeah, {{TCG|Legendary Collection}} was rotated out in the first rotation after Nintendo took over; the first Modified format with Nintendo running the game (that for the {{red link|2003-04 Modified format|2003-04 season}}) was {{TCG|Expedition}}-on.

:As for the basic Energy cards, all basic Energy cards from any set are allowed for play regardless of circumstances. For example, one could build an entire Pokémon and Trainer engine using only cards from {{TCG|HeartGold & SoulSilver}}, yet use only basic Energy cards printed way back in the {{TCG|Base Set}}. --[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 18:42, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

== Cards from older sets ==
I think it would be a great idea to add a list of cards from older sets that are also legal like how Charzard from {{TCG|Base Set}} is also legal because it was reprined just need a refernce because of the word change.

(I went a head and added {{TCG|Call of Legends}} and {{TCG|Black & White}} to the list)

Rotation (TCG)

2011-05-20T00:15:32Z

Jawsisra: /* Expansions that are part of the current rotation */

A '''rotation''' in the [[Pokémon Trading Card Game]] is when several sets are removed from [[Pokémon Organized Play]] (POP), usually because they are too old and would not be compatible with newer sets or rules. Rotations almost always occur directly following the TCG World Championships and remove four or more sets. The Pokémon Company International is currently trying to start a season with 9 sets and end it with 13 sets. If a set is "removed," that means a player is no longer able to use any card in that set in their deck. This rule only applies to {{TCG|Modified format}}. In {{TCG|Unlimited format}}, players may use any card from any set in their decks.

==Controversy==
A fair number of players in the POP leagues believe that "banning" cards from play, and thereby removing whole decks, slows down play and is bad for the game as a whole. On the other hand, many players think that being forced to come up with new deck ideas makes the game more fun and interesting.

==Current Rotation==
===Expansions that have been rotated out===
* {{TCG|Base Set}}
* {{TCG|Jungle}}
* {{TCG|Fossil}}
* {{TCG|Team Rocket}}
* {{TCG|Gym Heroes}}
* {{TCG|Gym Challenge}}
* {{TCG|Neo Genesis}}
* {{TCG|Neo Discovery}}
* {{TCG|Neo Revelation}}
* {{TCG|Neo Destiny}}
* {{TCG|Expedition Base Set}}
* {{TCG|Aquapolis}}
* {{TCG|Skyridge}}
* {{TCG|Wizards Black Star Promos}}
* {{TCG|EX Ruby & Sapphire}}
* {{TCG|EX Sandstorm}}
* {{TCG|EX Dragon}}
* {{TCG|EX Team Magma vs Team Aqua}}
* {{TCG|EX Hidden Legends}}
* {{TCG|EX FireRed & LeafGreen}}
* {{TCG|EX Team Rocket Returns}}
* {{TCG|EX Deoxys}}
* {{TCG|EX Emerald}}
* {{TCG|EX Unseen Forces}}
* {{TCG|EX Delta Species}}
* {{TCG|EX Legend Maker}}
* {{TCG|EX Holon Phantoms}}
* {{TCG|EX Crystal Guardians}}
* {{TCG|EX Dragon Frontiers}}
* {{TCG|EX Power Keepers}}
* {{TCG|Diamond & Pearl}}
* {{TCG|Mysterious Treasures}}
* {{TCG|Secret Wonders}}
* {{TCG|Great Encounters}}
* {{TCG|POP Series 1}}
* {{TCG|POP Series 2}}
* {{TCG|POP Series 3}}
* {{TCG|POP Series 4}}
* {{TCG|POP Series 5}}
* {{TCG|POP Series 6}}
* {{TCG|POP Series 7}}
* {{TCG|POP Series 8}}
* {{TCG|POP Series 9}}
* {{TCG|Nintendo Black Star Promos}}
* {{TCG|DP Black Star Promos}} numbered DP21 and lower

===Expansions that are part of the current rotation ===
* {{TCG|Majestic Dawn}}
* {{TCG|Legends Awakened}}
* {{TCG|Stormfront}}
* {{TCG|Platinum}}
* {{TCG|Rising Rivals}}
* {{TCG|Supreme Victors}}
* {{TCG|Platinum: Arceus|Arceus}}
* {{TCG|HeartGold & SoulSilver}}
* {{TCG|Unleashed}}
* {{TCG|Undaunted}}
* {{TCG|Triumphant}}
* {{TCG|Call of Legends}}
* {{TCG|Black & White}}
* {{TCG|DP Black Star Promos}} numbered DP22 and higher
* {{TCG|HGSS Black Star Promos}}

[[Category:TCG]]

Talk:Rotation (TCG)

2011-05-20T00:14:39Z

Jawsisra:

Please help me clean up this page by:
1. Creating links to all the mentioned TCG sets,
2. Writing articles on all the red links, such as the Holon Engine.

If I think up anything else, I'll add it. I'll also try to work on these myself.
00:54, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

== New sets ==

This is a minor concern, but please make sure that a set is released in stores before adding it to the current metagame. I noticed that someone added {{TCG|Legends Awakened}} before it's release date, and that is incorrect. Technically, even if prereleases for a set have taken place, a set is not legal until it hits stores. Thank you. --[[User:Politoed666|ニョロトノ]][[User talk:Politoed666|''666'']] 16:42, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

:Yeah, I added it without thinking as soon as we finished the Legends Awakened pages. I've been to enough prereleases to know the cards aren't legal until release, so this was just a minor error. Incidentally, however, you've edited the page too early: officially, the new rotation doesn't come into effect until September 1 of every year, regardless of when Worlds takes place. [[User:Cipher|Double Dash]] 16:50, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

== Legend Collection and Basic Energies ==

Is Legend Collection out of rotation as well? Can basic energies be used from any expansion packs?

:Yeah, {{TCG|Legendary Collection}} was rotated out in the first rotation after Nintendo took over; the first Modified format with Nintendo running the game (that for the {{red link|2003-04 Modified format|2003-04 season}}) was {{TCG|Expedition}}-on.

:As for the basic Energy cards, all basic Energy cards from any set are allowed for play regardless of circumstances. For example, one could build an entire Pokémon and Trainer engine using only cards from {{TCG|HeartGold & SoulSilver}}, yet use only basic Energy cards printed way back in the {{TCG|Base Set}}. --[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 18:42, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

== Newer sets ==

could some one please add the newer sets to the list of legal sets

also I think it would be a great idea to add a list of cards from older sets that are also legal like how Charzard from {{TCG|Base Set}} is also legal because it was reprined just need a refernce because of the word change.

Alph Lithograph (TCG)

2010-10-31T22:00:19Z

Jawsisra:

The '''Alph Lithographs''' are {{TCG|Goods card}}s that first debuted in {{TCG|HeartGold & SoulSilver Collection}}s. The following is a list of all the different Alph Lithographs.

==Alph Lithograph==
The following is a list of cards named '''Alph Lithograph'''.
{| {{bluetable}}
|- style="background: #DDDDFF;"
!Name
!Set
!Set no.
|-
| {{TCG ID|HeartGold Collection|Alph Lithograph|71}} || {{TCG|HeartGold Collection}} & {{TCG|HeartGold & SoulSilver}} || 071/070
|-
| {{TCG ID|SoulSilver Collection|Alph Lithograph|71}} || {{TCG|SoulSilver Collection}} & {{TCG|Unleashed}} || 071/070
|-
| {{TCG ID|Reviving Legends|Alph Lithograph|81}} || {{TCG|Reviving Legends}} & {{TCG|Undaunted}} || 081/080
|-
| {{TCG ID|Clash at the Summit|Alph Lithograph|81}} || {{TCG|Clash at the Summit}} & {{TCG|Triumphant}} || 081/080

|}

[[Category:Disambiguation pages for trading cards]]

Talk:Pokémon Adventures

2008-09-18T09:20:07Z

Jawsisra: /* USA Engilsh is back */ new section

"PokéSpe (Japanese: ポケスペ PokéSupe)." should be "PokéSpe (Japanese: ポケスペ PokeSupe)." as there is no accented e in Hepburn. [[User:WhisperToMe|WhisperToMe]] 12:42, 7 January 2006 (CST)

Does anyone know a good website to read up on these? My library does not have any of them[[User:Darth Cookie Monster|'''C ''']] [[User talk:Darth Cookie Monster|'''Is''']] [[User:Darth Cookie Monster/My Story|'''for Cookie''']]

:So you guys expect me to buy them and post them on the Internet? Dream on...{{ani|493}}'''<sc>[[User:Optimus35|Optimus35, to be exact...>.>;;;</nowiki>">Optimatum]]</sc>[[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|♊]]{{{1|08:23 12 Mar 2008}}}'''

== Say, I've a question ==

If the Emerald chapter hasn't finished yet, why did the DP chapter start already? It's Da '''[[User:Optimus35|<sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''07:08 26 May 2008'''''

:Technically, the Emerald chapter has finished in the serializations, but not in the volumes. Volumes don't come out the instant all of the chapters in them have been serialized. It may take quite awhile for successive volumes to come out, such as how it's been at least five months since {{PSV|28}} emerged and no sign of {{PSV|29}} on the horizon.

:I don't quite understand this double standard concerning the Emerald and Diamond/Pearl chapters, however. Diamond/Pearl chapter info usually gets updated as per the serializations, but Emerald chapter info usually waits for the volumes...--[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 15:53, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
::Second question: What are serializations? '''[[User:Optimus35|It's the <sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''06:47 27 May 2008'''''
:::Run as a series. In this case, a comic is serialized in a magazine (individual chapters are run in a magazine).--[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 04:02, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
::::It's even more complicated with PokeSpe, since different stories run on 3 different magazines (Shogaku 4-nensei/5-nensei/6-nensei). --[[User:Kohei|Pizza]][[User talk:Kohei|man]] 12:40, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

== English Release ==

Does anyone know when/if any of the volumes after the yellow chapter came out in english? because after the yellow chapter there is no listed US release date but I have been able to find up to volume 27 in english on ebay, but idk if those were fake, so I just want to know if they ever came out in english. --[[User:Hey1031|Hey1031]] 00:23, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
:The US stopped publishing in English so Chung-Yi now does it but only in the Singapore.--[[User:CoolPikachu!|'''☆Cool''']][[User talk:CoolPikachu!|'''ピカチ''']][[User Talk:CoolPikachu!/Archive 1|'''ュウ!''']] 00:26, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
:My country has Emerald, if I remember it right. tc26 01:08, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
Do they print it in singaporese or w/e language they speak or do they print in in english there? --[[User:Hey1031|Hey1031]] 00:27, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

It's only there not in the US.--[[User:CoolPikachu!|'''☆Cool''']][[User talk:CoolPikachu!|'''ピカチ''']][[User Talk:CoolPikachu!/Archive 1|'''ュウ!''']] 00:33, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

:Chuang Yi does print the manga in English. They could also print versions in other languages read and spoken around Singapore, such as {{wp|Chinese language|Chinese}} or {{wp|Malay language|Malay}}...--[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 02:53, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
::Chuang Yi has so far released volumes 5 to 27. I've so far seen the Gold chapter in Chinese, but no Malay yet...'''[[User:Optimatum|<sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Optimatum|Talk]]|[[User:Optimatum/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''09:25 25 Aug 2008'''''

== Hmm... ==

Think we should put in ''why'' Viz stopped translating? '''[[User:Optimatum|<sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Optimatum|Talk]]|[[User:Optimatum/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''12:37 7 Sep 2008'''''

:We might have to get [[Pokébeach]] to send a correspondent to Viz and get someone at Viz to explain. The currently-well-known reasons are anime popularity and cost, but it's possible that neither of them are right...--[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 16:25, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

== USA Engilsh is back ==

I was at our Local Walmart and they have a VIZ version of DP vol 2 I was going to pick it up but I did not have the money

If I get the money I will buy one

I was under the impresion VIZ stop making them but their it was they had a lot of them so I hope they still have them when I go back to buy it

Talk:Arceus (Pokémon)/Archive 1

2008-09-12T00:49:02Z

Jawsisra:

Um, {{u|TTEchidna}}, you put down that Arseus can become an ???-type Pokémon by holding a ??? Plate. Where'd you get that from?--[[User:Pokencyclopedia|Pokencyclopedia]] 21:35, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Man u have got to be kidding me Arceus catch rate should not be 3. I used my Action replay to get the item 4 arceus then i went and caought it on my 5th dusk ball. My friend caought it on him 1st ultra ball. Another friend i gave the item 2 caught it on his 2nd qiuck ball.
:Man, you have to be kidding me, you can't even spell the word "you" right. Arceus's catch rate is 3. If you'll notice, those balls multiply the catch rate formula by quite a bit, which greatly increases the chance to be caught. Plus, it's all on luck, I've had Magikarp break out of balls before. --'''[[User:TTEchidna|T]][[User talk:TTEchidna|T]][[wp:Echidna|Echidna]]''' 22:36, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

I added an alternative origin to Arceus's name that I found on: http://www.serebiiforums.com/showthread.php?t=286767.[[User:Draconium|Draconium]] 23:42, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

==Is there a point...==
Is there a point of having a table for each of the plates when it is attached to Arceus?
We could just have Arceus without a plate, and then have each title with an image and a sentence saying what type Arceus changes to.
For Example:

==Type effectiveness==
===No plate equipped===
{{DP type effectiveness|
type1=normal|
Normal= 100 |
Fighting=200 |
Flying= 100 |
Poison= 100 |
Ground= 100 |
Rock= 100 |
Bug= 100 |
Ghost= 0 |
Steel= 100 |

Fire= 100 |
Water= 100 |
Grass= 100 |
Electric=100 |
Psychic= 100 |
Ice= 100 |
Dragon= 100 |
Dark= 100 }}
[[Image:Spr 4d 493-Fire.png|thumb|right|Sprite for {{type2|Fire}} Arceus]]
===With Flame Plate===
When the Flame Plate is attached to Arceus, it becomes a Fire type.

etc... [[User:Tesh|Tesh]] 23:06, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

==Picture==
I have this picture:

[[Image:Arceus.PNG]]

I did not draw it. I want to use it on the page. It is much better than trying to stare at a tiny sprite. --[[User:Stinkoman|Stinkoman]] 15:08, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

:Better than a sprite for sure, but it'd be nice if we could find one without such bad compression artifacts. [[User:Invisible Shiny Bulbasaur|Invisible Shiny Bulbasaur]] 22:30, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
::I don't think we should really be using an unofficial image for the page. What would be nice is if somebody could get a nice, high-quality (as in NOT a photo of the monitor) screenshot of ARceus from PBR.--[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 01:22, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
:::You mean hack an Arceus and copy it into PBR?
[[Image:Psychic-attack.png|Psychic]][[Image:Ani475MS.gif]] '''[[User:Optimus35|Agent]] [[Gallade (Pokémon)|448]][[User talk:Optimus35|Talk]] | [[User:Optimus35/Diamond&Pearl|DP]]''' [[Image:Fighting-attack.png|Fighting]] 11:46, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

== Sprites? ==

Should we include separate sprite templates for all of the forms, or just do it for one? I know that Unown and Castform, among others, would serve the same problem. '''[[User:TTEchidna|T]][[User talk:TTEchidna|T]][[wp:Echidna|Echidna]]''' 22:10, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

== Art?! ==

I'd like to know the source of Arceus' picture. Mainly because it hasn't been revealed yet. TinaTheKirlia 02:44, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
:It's a piece of fanart. --[[User:DarkfireTaimatsu|DarkfireTaimatsu]] 02:47, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
::That's what I thought, although there was an edit that said "Official Art" or something and it was rather confusing. TinaTheKirlia 16:29, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
I think we should replace that art with a sprite. It seems inaccurate... Mariocaper 19:19, 20 September 2007

Yeah, and we could enlarge the size of the sprite so it won't be that tiny anymore, right? [[Image:Psychic-attack.png|Psychic]]http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/sprites/dpiconani/dpiconani475.gif '''[[User:Optimus35|Optimus35]][[User talk:Optimus35|Talk]] | [[User:Optimus35/Diamond&Pearl|DP]]''' [[Image:Fighting-attack.png|Fighting]] 06:45, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
:Enlarged sprites look terrible. --[[User:DarkfireTaimatsu|DarkfireTaimatsu]] 06:49, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
::Couldn't we get a PBR screenshot? And I mean a screenshot, not someone pointing their camera at a television? (We need that for Rosy and Sashay, too...)--[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 07:13, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
::I can't, my FRAPS only works on full screen games like Maple Story...I think we could take the Arceus photo, enlarge it and sharpen it a little, then put it back on bulba. The only problem with this is that the sprite would be oversize...
:::I hope that you have permission to use that piece of fan art. --[[Special:Contributions/Kenji-girl|☆]][[Tracey Sketchit|ケンジ]][[User:Kenji-girl|ガール]] 21:27, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
::::I've got five PBR shots. They're all in my [[User:Optimus35/Sandbox|sandbox]]. Click on the links under 'Arceus'. Tell me which one looks best on my talk page and I'll upload it onto Bulbagarden Archives...[[Image:Ani475MS.gif]] '''[[User:Optimus35|Agent]] [[User:Optimus35/Mission|4]][[User:Optimus35/Emerald|4]][[Gallade (Pokémon)|8]][[User talk:Optimus35|δ]] | [[User:Optimus35/Diamond&Pearl|DP]]''' | [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?limit=50&title=Special%3AContributions&contribs=user&target=Optimus35&namespace=0&year=&month=-1 ☆][[Image:Ani282MS.gif]] 09:01, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Change the pic!
[[User:Crystallucario|Crystallucario]] 14:54, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
:The reason why we're not changing it is because it's nicely done fanart, and it's more easier to look at this instead of a sprite.
:Otherwise it'd be absolute hell for me to draw Arceus. Still is, but certainly more easier than looking at a sprite. :p [[User:Tina|Tina]] [[Special:Contributions/Tina|δ]][[User talk:Tina|♫]] 16:40, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
hmmm maybe ok whatever...
[[User:Crystallucario|CrystalLucario 12:23, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
::...except, do we have permission to use the image? The image page doesn't seem to claim it at all, so I'm going to go ahead and guess that we're doing something illegal or at least unethical here. Seriously, why can't we just use a PBR shot?[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 00:58, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
:::Since when was pokemon ever ethical? Think about it, the aim of the game is to run away from home at 10 years old (good parenting skills mom) and after having abuse a poor little starly to the brink of death by slashing it over and over again with false swipe you throw something at it, only adding to the poor creature's pain and torture only to trap it inside a small, cramped chamber for the rest of its unnatural life whilst using it to abuse other pokemon. But anyways I digress, the point is the piece of fanart looks nice, is accurate and fits in perfectly with all the official pokemon artwork. Hell when I first visited the page I thought it WAS a piece of official artwork. A PBR snapshot would not be at all as effective as the fanart. So no, we ain't havin a PBR shot. [[User:Wikid|Wikid]] 16:20, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

::::No one is questioning the ethics of the series, just in using someone else's work without their consent. Besides, the face is drawn wrong. There should be more lines running across it. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 16:28, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Metronome ==

My Mew used Judgement through Metronome. Should I include something like this under "Trivia":

Although Nintendo is attempting to keep Arceus secret, it is possible for Arceus's signature move, {{m|Judgment}}, to be used through {{m|Metronome}}, thus potentially revealing the existence of Arceus to otherwise unaware fans.

--[[User:Shiny Noctowl|Shiny Noctowl]][[User talk:Shiny Noctowl|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Shiny Noctowl|Contribs]][[Image:Ani480MS.gif]] 20:33, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

i could draw arceus if that would help. i like drawing pokémon. [[talonclawz]] new comer!!!!!!!!!! [[Image:Ani444MS.gif‎]]

== Shishigami? ==

Should any mention of the Forest Spirit Shishigami from Miyazaki Hayao's Mononoke-Hime be mentioned in the article? Arceus seems to have a resemblance to Shishigami. In addition, on the illegal hacked Pokémon Diamond (Telefang Power), Shishigami appears on the front, despite not having anything to do with the game (that's the way those criminals work), and then in the real Pokémon Diamond, Arceus was added. Does anyone else think that some trivia should be added about this? ~Kumori Satosuke
:Outside of the whole quadrupedal thing, I don't think there's anything else that's official to suggest a connection. For example, Arceus seems to be nothing outside of a creator, while shishigami is given dominion over life and death.--[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 03:27, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
::Yes, I agree. There really isn't anything linking the two other than a vague (And I do mean VAGUE.) resemblance. --[[User:Dual|Dual]] 14:15, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

== ??? type sprite may prevent crash ==
Just a theory, but the programmers at Game Freak may have drawn and programmmed a ??? type Arceus to prevent game crashes. Anyone with a code patcher can figure out how to change a Pokémon's type. They might have figured that someone would tamper with Arceus's type, and if they changed it to a ??? type, and there was no sprite for it, the game would crash because it would try loading data that does not exist. That's my theory anyway. [[User:Fsilone|Fsilone]] 02:10, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
:That's really logical. figure that by yourself? But I still don't know if we should put that in the article.[[Image:Ani471MS.gif]][[User:Pokemaniac102|'''Poke''''''maniac''''''102''']][[Image:AniEggMS.gif]] 02:17, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

::im a little iffy on the grammer, but other than that i think its a fantastic theory and should be in the trivia section. excellent. now all i need to do is figure out how to do it myself in my game with the Action Replay... [[Image:Ani081MS.gif|35px]][[User:MAGNEDETH|MAGNEDETH]][[Image:Ani082MS.gif|35px]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|TALK]][[Image:Ani462MS.gif|35px]] 02:30, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

:::You can't - you need to edit the rom data - action replay only edits temporary and save data. Think so anyway. '''[[:User:Origamiguy|折り紙ガイ]] - [[:User_talk:Origamiguy|離す]][[:Special:Contributions/Origamiguy|貢献]]''' 15:37, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

I think I don't see anything grammatically wrong. I copied the words above and reworded it into sentences.[[Image:Ani471MS.gif]][[User:Pokemaniac102|'''Poke''''''maniac''''''102''']][[Image:AniEggMS.gif]] 02:34, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

:yea, im probibly wrong, im not joking when i say i failed english class......twice...with a 54..... [[Image:Ani081MS.gif|35px]][[User:MAGNEDETH|MAGNEDETH]][[Image:Ani082MS.gif|35px]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|TALK]][[Image:Ani462MS.gif|35px]] 03:42, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

what the heck is shishigami? is it a pokémon?(someone out there?) [[-talonclawz]] new comer!!!!! [[Image:212MS.gif]] 1:06, 5 April 2008

No. Wait a minute if you don't know that Errr...how new are you to Pokémon?[[User:Crystallucario|'''''Crystal''''']] [[User talk:Crystallucario|'''''Lucario''''']] 17:43, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

A shishigami is a Japanese god of death. [[User:LordKaien|LordKaien]] 14:51, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

== {{type2|???}} Sprite ==

[[Image:Question-Type Arceus Before.jpg|thumb|left|Before]][[Image:Question-Type Arceus After.jpg|thumb|right|After]]How long has the sprite of ???-type Arceus been pulling that vanishing act? Basically, the only time you can see the sprite is when the white background on PNG-format images is still visible, as seen in the Before shot. Once the white backgrounds vanish, the rest of the sprite should still be there. However, on ???-type Arceus, the sprite vanishes along with the background, as seen in the After shot. Is there a way to fix this?

(The shots in question come from an area of my own user page, specifically a [[Template:User Favorite Move|favorite move tag]] programmed for a ???-type move and {{m|Curse}} with the Arceus sprite in question for a laugh. The [[Template:User 2000|2000-edits in a month tag]] above it is also shown for comparison.) --[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 05:41, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

:Wow. That's weird that it just disappears! --[[Image:Spr 3e 059.gif|70px]][[Image:Spr 3e 132.gif]]'''[[User:Theryguy512|Theryguy]][[User:Theryguy512/Contribution Page|5]][[User:Theryguy512/Mission Page|1]][[User:Theryguy512/Sandbox|2]]''' [[Image:Trozeiani025.gif]] 11:59, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
I think I figured out the vanishing act. It's due to the filename. Many operating systems don't allow question marks in filenames, and it's probably due to those that caused the image to vanish. I went and uploaded an image to [[a:Image:Spr 4d 493-Unknown.png|Image:Spr 4d 493-Unknown.png]] on the archives, and that image works as it should! Every instance of the vanishing image has been changed to the one that doesn't vanish, so you won't be seeing vanishing ???-type Arceus again anytime soon. --[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 16:37, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

== Pic ==

Okay, I remember {{u|Urutapu}} saying something about a screenshot of Arceus from PBR. Well, I got a Wii ''and'' PBR for Christmas. And I have *cough*cheated*cough* four Arceuses. All I need now is a good-quality emulator that can screenshot my Wii with. Any suggestions?
--{{u|Stinkoman}}

Somehow theres a way of putting a SCART socket into your PC and running it through that. My mate's computer can do that but i think it had the socket when he bought it. [[Image:Ani258MS.gif]][[User:Origamiguy|OrigamiGuy]] Lieks [[Mudkip (Pokémon)|Mudkipz]][[Image:Ani258MS.gif]]

== Officially been revealed ==
Until this Pokemon has been officially revealed (by Nintendo or Coro Coro magazine) this page should be removed, because the only reason why there is proof of its existence is through a hacking or cheating device.
:WHAT! This page should be included on here. If it is in the Game, weather or not if it has been reaveled, it IS STILL IN THE GAME WITHOUT HAVING TO BE MADE{{Ani|493}}[[User:Darth Cookie Monster|'''C ''']]{{Ani|491}}[[User talk:Darth Cookie Monster|''' Is''']]{{Ani|426}}[[User:Darth Cookie Monster/My Story|'''for Cookie''']]{{Ani|473}}
::Yea, this page is about a Pokémon. In case you don't know (hopefully you do), this is a Pokémon encyclopedia. This page is like mandatory. --'''[[User:Theryguy512|Theryguy]][[User talk:Theryguy512|5]][[User:Theryguy512/Contribution Page|1]][[User:Theryguy512/Similarities|2]]''' 02:12, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
:::Exactly. We have pages for all Pokémon ''officially programmed into the games''. Would you come here before Deoxys was revealed and say "NUH UH THERE'S ONLY 201 IN HOENN DEOXYS IS A HAKKER ONLY POKEMAN." Arceus is official, they're just holding off on the official revelation. Besides... plenty of Pokémon from each generation were never revealed through CoroCoro or by Nintendo individually. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]][[Image:Ani155MS.gif|Fire echy]]''' 07:07, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

I may only be 10, but take it from me. Arceus is real. It is on pokemon.com's pokedex.[[User:DaPikanator56|DaPikanator56]] 18:47, 22 March 2008 (UTC){{u|DaPikanator56}}
:Well, actually, it's not on the PokéDex on [[Pokemon.com]], but yes, it is real. --'''[[User:Theryguy512|Theryguy]][[User talk:Theryguy512|5]][[User:Theryguy512/Contribution Page|1]][[User:Theryguy512/Similarities|2]]''' 13:17, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
::An example of what TTE said would be the Porygons. '''<sc>[[User:Optimus35|{{tt|Optimatum♏|Optimus35}}]]</sc>[[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|♊]]02:32 30 Mar 2008'''

Oh yeah! It and ummm... {{p|Shaymin}} I think aren't Theryguy.[[User:DaPikanator56|DaPikanator56]] 18:52, 30 March 2008 (UTC){{u|DaPikanator56}}
:Shaymin has been acknowledged by official Japanese sources. And to address the original point, we are not Wikipedia. Everyone knows that Arceus is real, so this page is a necessity. Hell, we have articles for a lot of glitch Pokémon so a real one definately passes. --[[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] [[User talk:Fabu-Vinny|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Fabu-Vinny|C]]-[[User:Fabu-Vinny/Sandbox|S]] 23:52, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

True...Oh, and by the way, in the summer I will shorten my visits here, but this place rules! It ain't demented like Chuckie Cheese's.
:) ^-^[[User:DaPikanator56|DaPikanator56]] 22:31, 3 April 2008 (UTC)DaPikanator56

Arceus is already in the game (I actually have it (with the help of an Action Replay of course)), so this page doesn't need to go anywhere. Little do people know, Arceus is probably watching the whole time the player is beating up Team Galactic and catching Dialga/Palkia, seeing as the platform Arceus is on is floating over the Spear Pillar. [[User:Diachronos|Diachronos]] 18:03, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

==Picture==

I found this picture interesting, but low quality. [http://www.pokebeach.com/news/0507/arceus.jpg its on www.pokebeach.com] --[[User:Britannia's Blade|Britannia's Blade]] 21:25, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
:Good find, but it's already linked from the article [[Arceus (Pokémon)#External links|right here]]. --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 23:38, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

------------
I also just found this one [http://www.arkeis.com/images/pokemonfactory/arceus.png ****] Fan art of course but very serious looking, Lots more like it [http://www.arkeis.com/legendaries.htm here] what do you think? --[[User:Britannia's Blade|Britannia's Blade]] 18:47, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
:I don't see how fanart is very notable to put up here.. >_> [[User:Tina|Tina]] [[Special:Contributions/Tina|δ]][[User talk:Tina|♫]] 19:06, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
::The one we have right now will do us until Arcy is revealed next year. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 20:37, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
:::What about this one? - [http://www.pokebeach.com/news/0507/arceus2.jpg (1)] '''[[:User:Origamiguy|折り紙ガイ]] - [[:User_talk:Origamiguy|離す]][[:Special:Contributions/Origamiguy|貢献]]''' 15:45, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
::::-Gasp- Why not that one! Ooo, take it! TAKE IT!!! '''[[User:Optimus35|<sc>Optimatum</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''13:53 2 May 2008'''''
TTE, Arceus isn't going 2 be revealed 4 two years yet. [[User:LordKaien|LordKaien]] 14:53, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

==Arceus and Giratina==
Aren't Arceus and Giratina sort of opposites of each other because Arceus is God and Giratina is the devil sort of, I mean Arceus didn't create Giratina so that means they were the two entities before time started. [[User:Big Johnno|Pokémon Master]] 17:46 15 May 2008
:Maybe you're right, but i think that Giratina is part of the Dragon Trio. [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 23:37, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
::Giratina is the BOSS! It saved the two other Pokamon! Posted by the '''[[User:Optimus35|<sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''01:04 17 May 2008'''''
:Hold on, there's no reason to get angry. Why can't we just WAIT until Arceus is officially revealed? Isn't that BETTER than argueing? [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 23:37, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

In my eyes it would be

Dialga + Palkia = Rivals (Time VS Space)

Giratina + Arceus = Rivals (God VS Darkness?)

So yeah, regardless of the fact Giratina is part of the Dragon Trio.
(''Thinking about it, those four are exactly the same as my characters |: Lily = Controls Time. Darkness = Controls Space. Akito = Controls Death. Rose = Controls Life/Is a sort-of God. But anyway, my characters are irrelevant too this xD'') [[User:Takoto|Takoto タコト]]| サソデイ = 愛 14:37, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
:So, Arceus is God/JesusHoly Spirit, and Giratina is Satan? O.O It's Da '''[[User:Optimus35|<sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''06:03 26 May 2008'''''
::Arceus is Arceus. Giratina is Giratina. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 07:02, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
:::Meh, that's the Atheist way of seeing it. Hey, wait, am I about to be stone for being anti-atheist? Damn. It's Da '''[[User:Optimus35|<sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''07:13 26 May 2008'''''
::::I didn't say Giratina was Satan, i simply said he was...darkness. [[User:Takoto|Takoto タコト]]| サソデイ = 愛 02:05, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
My question is, how do you KNOW Giratina is bad, or if Arceus is even good? How do you KNOW Giratina wasn't created by Arceus? You don't. Besides, Neither ot them are from Christianity, and U know what? I'm a devout Christian and I don't care if Arceus wasn't based off of my God. [[User:LordKaien|LordKaien]] 14:56, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
:Does anybody want to see it this way, "WE SHOULD ALL JUST WAIT"? [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 22:06, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
::I don't think Giratina is evil. You don't have too be evil/whatever to control darkness/whatever Giratina controls. I do not think Giratina is evil! [[User:Takoto|Takoto タコト]]| サソデイ = 愛 22:22, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
:Is this text INVISIBLE? WE SHOULD ALL JUST WAIT! [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 00:28, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
::Thank you, good people of bulbapedia, for waiting. [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 00:57, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
Giratina isn't bad, or evil, or a demon, or any of that bull****. They make Darkrai seem like he's evil in The Rise of Darkrai, but he wasn't. Just because Giratina lives in a graveyard doesn't mean he's evil. [[User:Diachronos|Diachronos]] 18:06, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

== More sprites ==

Ok, so we have all the type sprites for Arceus and it's shiny sprite, but we don't have shiny forms for Arceus' other types. Could someone please tell me if it's possible to get those sprites and if so get them for us? [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 12:08, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
:If i could, i would, but i can't, so i can't help you. I'm not even 100% sure Arceus's other-type sprites HAVE shiny versions of them :| [[User:Takoto|Takoto タコト]]| サソデイ = 愛 14:27, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
::They do. And a simple method is to color the sprites the right color. The white portion of the body is the only part which remains constant throughout the non-shiny forms. and when it becomes shiny, the rings are the same color as those of the non-shiny ones. The only thing that differs between non-shiny and shiny is the white portion, which turns yellow. It's Da '''[[User:Optimus35|<sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''06:01 26 May 2008'''''
:So... could you do that for us as a favor? [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 22:02, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
::I might have those sprites on my computer somewhere. Want me to upload them? [[User:Yinyang1195|Yin]][[User talk:Yinyang1195|Yang]] 20:05, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
:Why don't you recolor them...it will be easy.--[[User:Tavisource|☆Tavis]][[User talk:Tavisource|ource]] 00:49, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
::I dont no how... [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 00:54, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
:Hmm...I would do it, but I'm very busy right now, you could go ask hcfx2 for help, he's great at recoloration.--[[User:Tavisource|☆Tavis]][[User talk:Tavisource|ource]] 00:57, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
:Nevermind, i found them on "a:Catagory:Arceus". But thanks :) [[User:Arceausams|Arceausams]] 01:11, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

== Metronome and Judgement ==

If a player knows nothing about Arceus, how would they know that Judgement is its signature attack? Even if it is used by a Pokémon using Metronome. So could Metronome really spoil the surprise? ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 02:50, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
:Not really. ^^; Metronome can do ANYTHING. Even Explosion so...'''[[User:Optimus35|It's the <sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''02:54 4 Jun 2008'''''
::Well, if they were like "Ooh, what learns that?!" and can't find anyone, they'll suspect it to be some crazy legendary not yet shown. And have lived under a rock since EVERYONE KNOWS OF ARCEUS. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 03:03, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
:::Hmm, then Singapore must be under a rock. Only two people I know know what's Arceus, that includes me. '''[[User:Optimus35|It's the <sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''03:12 4 Jun 2008'''''
::::Or this is nintendo's way of teasing us. kinda like,
Player:"What pokémon learns this?"
Nintendo:"Wait and see"
Player:"You suck."[[User:LordKaien|LordKaien]] 12:39, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

I only ask because of this quote in the trivia:

"''Although Nintendo is attempting to keep Arceus secret, it is possible for Arceus's signature move, Judgment, to be used through Metronome, thus potentially revealing the existence of Arceus to otherwise unaware fans.''"

Plus, Nintendo ''has'' to know that the majority of their fanbase uses the internet. Every Pokémon website except the "official" ones have info on Arceus. A lot of them even before the games were released globally. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 15:57, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
:The majority of the fanbase are kids who don't necessarily visit fansites. --[[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] |[[User talk:Fabu-Vinny|Talk Page]]| 16:02, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
::No ([[User:MathijsP|MathijsP]] 16:03, 4 June 2008 (UTC))
:::Yes. --[[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] |[[User talk:Fabu-Vinny|Talk Page]]| 16:04, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
::::No ([[User:MathijsP|MathijsP]] 16:05, 4 June 2008 (UTC))

:::::I would have to disagree with that statement. I believe that most fans may have been kids at the beginning when Pokémon first came out, but now have grown as the series has. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 16:18, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

A similar thing happened to me when I was playing PBR. I ordered my Togepi to use Metronome and out came Judgment. I wondered what Pokémon used this move until I checked this site and I found Arceus. I didn't even know about its existence AT ALL when Metronome was used that one year ago... {{ani|385}}[[User:BlueJirachi|BlueJirachi]] 18:01, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

== Arceus's pattern in the anime? ==

I didn't get a second look (mainly because I deleted the episode from my DVR), but I heard in the episode "Journey to the Unknown!" that Saturn was holding a cube with Arceus's pattern on it... [[User:ShinyRayquaza|ShinyRayquaza]] 19:35, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

== Arceus + Sky Plate? ==

If you attach a Sky Plate to Arceus, wouldn't that make it become the first pure Flying-type Pokémon? [[User:Wynautluvr|Wynautluvr]] 16:53, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

:It is the first "permanent" pure Flying-type. The Porygon line can become Flying-types with their Conversion moves, and Kecleon can with its Color Change Ability. These Pokémon, however, revert back to Normal when the battle is over. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 18:56, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

::It's not permanent, in that you can change the plate and it loses the pure-flying status... '''[[:User:Origamiguy|Lord]] of [[:User_talk:Origamiguy|Ori]][[Special:Contributions/Origamiguy|gami]]''' 15:16, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
:::It's permanent in that it doesn't go away just because the battle ends. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 21:46, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
::::No its not. Its only a permanent flying type if its natural type (i.e. no plate) is flying. You might as well say its also the first permamnent ??? type since it can become that (potentially) too.[[User:Wikid|Wikid]] 16:43, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

:::::If you never remove the plate, then it's permanent. Plus, you can't obtain a ???-type Arceus in-game in any normal fashion. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 16:45, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

:::::: Says you. firstly, the word permanent implies that the typing can never be changed. If you unequip the plate Arceus goes back to normal therefore it's not permanent. At best I would say its semi-permament. Secondly, there might a ??? plate given out at an event or found somewhere in platinum like Glacidia's flower. ??? forme arceus might be the result when you enter the torn world with arceus. It might even be what Arceus looks like when it is a shadow pokemon as there might be a new game coming out to do with shadow pokemon and DPP might be the first generation where you can trade shadow pokemon over. Therefore if you can trade it as shadow poke between DP and platinum then there is a way to get an ??? forme Arceus in a normal fashion.[[User:Wikid|Wikid]] 17:21, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Fine. "Semi-permanent". ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 17:24, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== The ??? Plate ==

The ??? Plate exists, It is named mysterious plate by CodeJunkies, It may also be encountered in the underground as a Malfunction, people got this (like my brother) and attached it to ARCEUS, making the ??? type, no weaknesses are found on this type--[[User:M.vit|M.vit]] 00:10, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
:Believe me, people code-spelunk like there's no tomorrow...there isn't such thing.--[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 00:10, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

can M.vit at least tell how did his brother encounter such a plate, and how does it function with other Pokémon?and what happens to a Pokémon who knows the move [[curse]]

can somebody edit this article . It says that Arceus creted the Pokémon Universe,''Dragon trio'' and lake trio. Till now the dragon trio isn't officially confirmed. so whether I or somebody else should change the Dragon trio to the time-space duo: Dialga and Palkia.--[[User:Nobody777|Nobody777]] 13:56, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

well, seems that nobody is out of topic, BTW, i have seem to find this code in Code Junkies here it is
Mysterious Plate x999
94000130 fcff0000
b21c4d28 00000000
b0000004 00000000
00000890 03e70133
d2000000 00000000--[[User:M.vit|M.vit]] 16:55, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

:The plates all have different names on CodeJunkies which are the translated Japenese names. I believe the Mysterious Plate is actually the Mind Plate. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 17:13, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
::Your right, it is the mind plate. '''{{Colored link|:User:Origamiguy|ff8000|Lord}} of {{Colored link|:User_talk:Origamiguy|ff8000|Ori}}{{Colored link|Special:Contributions/Origamiguy|ff8000|gami}}''' 16:45, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

==type change==

Keckleons ability color change changes its type according to the move done by the opponent so if ???-type arceus used judjement, will it change its type? can anyone experiment?--[[User:Nobody777|Nobody777]] 13:21, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

:The fact that you can't get a ??? plate makes it difficult to say. I have no idea what would happen...♪♪[[User:ShinyPachirisu|Shiny]] [[User Talk:ShinyPachirisu|Pachirisu]] :) ♪♪ 13:23, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

::???-type moves have been hacked and have no effect. So Kecleon would probably be unaffected. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 13:39, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
:::Actually, they do have an effect... they just deal minimal damage. Lemme see what it does in Gen III later on... '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 23:41, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Pal Park]] ==

Will it really freeze the game when you put Arceus infront of the party and bla bla bla to the Pal Park?
[[User:Palkia38|Palkia38]] 03:48, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

== Now... ==

Isn't what I did so freaking cool? I mean, look at it. And the best thing is that it is totally dependent on the ''exact second'' that you save/access the page. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 07:32, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
:A fine template, indeed. Would it be useful to use something like this to generate random examples in paragraphs?
:P.S.: What you did (a calculation based on a clock) is even a good idea for a new ability or move in the game that picks a random type. --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 07:53, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
::Now if we only had the backsprites for the various forms...--[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 22:49, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
:::Two clock-based calculations would make it even more random. Watch this. {{#expr: ({{#time: U}} div {{#time: s}}) mod 9002}} {{#ifexpr: (({{#time: U}} div {{#time: s}}) mod 9002) > 9000|<big>'''← IT'S OVER 9000!!!'''</big>}}
:::As for random examples... hmm... Well, what are you thinking?
:::And I wish for the backsprites, too... And the minisprite, does it change with Arceus? '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 22:58, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

==Arceus in My Pokémon Ranch==
For a fact,someone in the German forum BisaBoard got Arceus as one of the daily Pokémon!This person was -like me- totally dumbfounded and opened that thread to know more about this phenomena.
I've asked some expert in the same message board if this would be really possible.To my surprise,he said that he checked the programme code and Arceus is really included!I think this MUST be put into the Trivia section.[[User:Uxie legend|Uxie legend]]

:How does one check the program code of a Wii Ware title? And of course Arceus would be there, it can be deposited just like any other Pokémon. Plus, I ''doubt'' that Hayley will trade you an Arceus... ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 16:02, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

::Might be wrong, but I believe there is a set list of Pokémon Hayley will only trade off, which was found and released in dr_nza's FAQ found [http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/wii/file/943658/53074 here]. The Pokémon Hayley brings are random, so I guess Arceus is a possibility, but Hayley won't be able to trade it off. - [[User:Legotim|█╬▓◘ ’M █╚▓█ (ţś_łєğǿŧΐм)]] [[User talk:Legotim|spreche]] 05:06, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

==Hmmm....==
Should we add that Arceus is the most hacked Pokemon? Every hacker I know owns a Arceus ''and'' all its plates. [[User:Strong Intelligent|Strong Intelligent]]
:No. tc26 14:03, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
::I own all the plates too. I got them underground. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 22:46, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

:::I spent so much time underground that I have more than one of each plate. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 03:22, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

== Church? ==

{{u|Sui}} keeps adding an external link to "The Church of Arceus." I'm wondering whether or not this is notable enough, or if it's just an advertisement for an obscure fansite. I don't know anything, so you guys be the judges. --[[User:Martonimos|Martonimos]][[User talk:Martonimos|((Argh]]|[[Special:Contributions/Martonimos|Blargh))]] 21:59, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

== Ūber? ==

If [[Arceus]] isn't offically reveiled, how can it be called Ūber? Can't spell.

☆ShinyPiKa 19:17, 8 August 2008 (UTC)☆
:Well, some people hack into their games and can get Arceus that way. So they know that way. ...I really dunno [[User:Takoto|Takoto タコト]]| サソデイ = 愛 19:22, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

::His stats put him in the league of the strongest Pokemon of all, so he's safe to call that. [[User:Toastypk|'''''~Toastypk''''']] - [[User_Talk:Toastypk|'''Loom.''']] 19:28, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

::: Although that is true, it isn't revealed yet so it can't be under that catagory '''yet'''. It's been annoying me, please remove it. ShinyPiKa 19:58, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

:::It's being used, and people are able to--gasp, shocker--read its stats! And, since its stats (and movepool, for that matter) are pretty decent, it can be classified as "uber," despite it being revealed or not. --'''[[User:Gabbie|gabbie]]''' | '''[[User_talk:Gabbie|talk]]''' 21:07, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

:::: But people still use Arceus on Wi-Fi. Darkrai and Shaymin were in and are still in the UBER tier so why should Arceus be any different?--[[User:Blazevoir|Blaz]][[User talk:Blazevoir|evoir]] 20:59, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

::::: Because it hasn't been revealed yet !!! :D ShinyPiKa 22:23, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
::::::You cant use Arceyus in the battle tower. [[User:MathijsP|MathijsP]] 09:30, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
::::::: Please remove [[Arceus]] from the Ūber secion 4 now, when its reveaaled u can add it back.ShinyPiKa 15:00, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
:::::::: Why? Every other website considers it ÜBER. Why should Bulba be any different?--[[User:Blazevoir|Blaz]][[User talk:Blazevoir|evoir]] 15:08, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::Because people think Nintendo will kill us for actually taking note of their stuff before they officially reveal them. Unlike Platinum's existence before May 15, though, it can be proven that Arceus exists. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 17:21, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Arceus vs. Mew ==

This is all that Mew's Pokédex entries say:

*Because it can use all kinds of moves, many scientists believe Mew to be the ancestor of Pokémon.
*Mew is said to possess the genetic composition of all Pokémon.
*Because it can learn any move, some people began research to see if it is the ancestor of all Pokémon.

First off, this kind of stuff didn't appear until Silver. Second off, it is ''very'' couched in uncertainty, and it is ''never'' said that its actually been shown to possess every type of DNA - ''only that its ability to perform any move has generated that rumor''.

Second off, several Pokémon are completely artificial, such as {{p|Grimer}}/{{p/Muk}}, {{p|Castform}}, or {{p|Porygon}}/{{p|Porygon2}}/{{p|Porygon-Z}}. So, how could Mew be considered their "ancestor", or have their DNA, if its supposed to be the "first Pokemon"? Wouldn't having the DNA of Pokemon who appeared completely separate from any genetic lineage instead imply Mew was their descendant?

Porygon is even said to be "A Pokémon that consists entirely of programming code." So, no DNA at all, and its upgrades are said to simply have had AI installed.

Even allowing for the monstrously egregious interpretations of genetics in the series, the idea that having all the DNA of a group makes you its ancestor is hogwash - its entirely the other way around.

Now, lets look at Arceus, and its info.
*It is told in mythology that this Pokémon was born before the universe even existed.
*It is described in mythology as the Pokémon that shaped the universe with its 1,000 arms.
* "Two beings of time and space set free from the Original One."
* "Three beings were born to bind time and space."
* "Two make matter and three make spirit, shaping the world."
* "The Original One breathed alone before the universe came."

Now, this is ''much'' more explicit than the Mew bit '''ever''' was. It makes it absolutely clear that Arceus came ''before even the universe itself, much less other Pokémon'', and that it in fact created the world and life itself. Once could claim that this is uncertain do to its status as "mythology", but that would be hilariously in denial of how the series has used mythology so far - as an origin story, not as something by definition uncertain or false.

How is there even a dispute about this? If it's a retcon at all, it's a fairly small one - it was clear from the beginning that the bit about Mew being the origin had a contradictory explanation.

Now, what could work is that Mew is supposed to be god-like like Arceus and other Legendaries - in this case, it would logically be some scion of life, which would in fact explain its design. If the bit about Mew containing all other DNA turned out to be "true", in the context of the franchise, then this would also make much more sense than the pseudo-scientific jargon used in Silver - Mew contains the DNA because it is the ultimate personification of life/birth, and the scientists are trying to force a contradictory explanation for the oddity in order to deny its true, supernatural origin.

So can we please stop claiming things like the D/P Pokedex "still stating that it's the ancestor of all pokémon", or that "it's no different than people believing Arceus is the creator"? [[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 06:14, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
:Creationism vs science? In my Pokémon? It's more likely than you think! '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 06:30, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

::ummm... "Uncertain", If I recall correctly, it can learn "Transform", which, unless I'm mistaken, involves the recombination of it's own DNA to match said pokemon that transforms. And, since Ditto's Pokédex entry hints that how it transforms involves it recombining it's DNA to match the pokémon it's trying to match, the same can easily be said for Mew. So, really, considering how it knows transform, and it can transform into a lot of pokémon, even legendaries that were supposedly created before it, it still has merit in regards to having the DNA of all pokémon, and thus being the ancestor of all pokémon.

::As for the Porygon/2/z example, considering the mere fact that Mew can transform into these three pokémon DESPITE apparantly not having their DNA, I think that those Pokémon have a miniscule amount of Mew's DNA (otherwise, how can Ditto [Or mew, for that matter] transform into them?].). Besides, just because they are composed entirely of AI (whether it's the free will kind or not doesn't matter) doesn't mean it can't have DNA. Take the Mega Man series (specifically, the Mega Man X subseries through the Mega Man ZX series.), the Reploids were mentioned to be complete Machines (all derived from X's design), and yet the games also mentions that they have DNA (Reploid "DNA" was used to form the Nightmare Virus, and also revive Necromances III, Harumachine, Blizzard Staggoff, and Copy X. Plus, Axl's ability involves him mimicking his enemies (and in the case of Command Mission and [Technically] ZX advent, even bosses.).

::And anyways, Mew can also transform into Grimer, Muk, and Castform, which, if Mew didn't have their DNA, then how can Mew OR Ditto even transform into them?

::Also, about it's pokedex entries, both of them contradict themselves. I mean, one says that it was born before the universe existed, and yet, the other hints that it was born a little while AFTER the Universe was created, and that all IT did was merely "shape" the universe. Plus, it doesn't even HAVE 1,000 arms in its sprite, and not only that, but It also apparantly can't even learn any attacks involving arms, such as all of the punch variants.

::as for the origin book, that ALSO doesn't mention Giratina (yet, anyways, for all we know, Platinum could add it in.), and plus, that same thing hinted that Dialga and Palkia are two halves of Arceus, but then, why cant they merge together (I mean, Dragon Quest, and Mephiles the Dark could do it without much trouble from programming data, so why cant D/P)?

::and anyways, the legends also hinted that Legendaries can't be captured by mere mortals, yet most of the crime syndicates, the Pyramid King and even the protagonist has been wielding these pokemon as if they were nothing.

::That's my ruling as to how the thing isn't retconned (well, that, as well as the fact that, if it was, then wouldn't they have removed the entry from the Pokédex?) [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 10:49, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

lets remember that game physics are different from animé physics. Dialga, Palkia and giratina symbolise physics of the Pokémon world: time, space and dimensions,so if Arceus is the master of them that wouldn't make sense:creationism and science don't go together. Mew can transform its appearance, but not the nature or unique functions of a Pokémon, and if we follow good sense we can also say that it can't copy Pokémon which evolved in a special way because their not ''original'' like trading its bioligical fusion of item and Pokémon DNA.--[[User:Nobody777|Nobody777]] 12:40, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

:I'm pretty sure that it can copy even those that evolved in a "special" way in even the Anime. Remember, Weavile evolves from Sneasel via the Sharp Claw item, which also fits under the special way, and despite that, Mew STILL transformed into that pokemon in the Lucario Movie. If it can evolve through something like that, I'm pretty certain that it is even ancestral to those pokemon who evolve via special means. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 13:50, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
:::Wait, '''''what?''''' You're saying that ''because it can do something that '''Ditto''' can do'', it must be the ancestor of all Pokemon? Wouldn't this also require Ditto to be the ancestor of all Pokemon?
:::'''Porygon''': Then you are making up things contradictory to the established in-game facts in order to force in your own fan-theory. Almost every Pokedex entry for the Porygon line reiterates that they have NOTHING but programming code.
:::'''MegaMan X''': It is never, ''ever'' stated that the robots are "completely mechanical" - that they have souls, DNA, and can merge with living things pretty much makes that theory impossible. DNA is a very specific thing - it's ''not'' a general concept about information derivation, it's a ''specific organic acid''.
:::'''Axl''': His ability has NOTHING to do with DNA, and is never claimed to. It's essentially analogous to what Transformers do.
:::'''Muk''': I didn't say that Mew didn't necessarily possess the DNA of all creatures, though that's not the only way to copy them. I said that claiming this meant it was the ancestor was so completely ignorant of evolution and genetics that it deserves ridicule.
:::However, Ditto is able to copy them because it is an amoeba, and can change the shape of its body at will. To be fair, it is ''once'' said to be able to copy the opponent's genetic code - which would only work AFTER seeing the opponent. As that is EXACTLY how Transform is described anyway, that theory is blown out of the water.
:::'''Arceus' Pokedex''': This is a bald-faced lie. The pokedex entries in no way claim that Arceus came to be after the Universe existed - at best, they claim he came before it, created it, and shaped it.
:::'''Arms''': Have you considered the fact that it could have lost them, or given them up? It is the only Arceus in existence, by the very necessity of its being, so its not going to be something like "They're all born without the arms". It "set free" all those legendaries from itself - maybe it made them from its arms, like so '''very''' many Creation Myths, ''especially the linked Pangu one''.
:::You could also consider that "1000" is often used in Japanese writing to mean "many", instead of a specific number, and as the trios of matter and spirit are considered extensions of Arceus, they could be its "appendages" in a spiritual sense. Seriously, that part of its Pokedex isn't contradictory ''at all''.
:::'''Merge''': What does this have to do with ''anything''? Why would Dragon Quest have any bearing on this?
:::'''Legends''': In the games? No, the legends don't claim that, so the fact that certain legendaries fight with trainers is not contradictory, regardless of your false assertion that it's "like nothing". In the anime, where the legends imply that messing with them is incredibly dangerous to the natural order...well, I'll just let you watch the movies, or something, and try to claim that it's "like nothing".
:::'''Remove''': Why would it be removed? It never claimed anything that was '''false''' - again, '''''it only claims that fictional scientists have a tenuous, uncertain belief based on one of its abilities'''''. The deliberate uncertainty of the Pokedex entries, in contrast to nearly every other Pokedex entry, even for Legendaries, has to be considered. If it's not simply a monstrous misunderstanding of genetics on the game designer's part, then it's almost certainly meant to be a reference to "Supernatural vs. Naturalist science".
::::''"If it can evolve through something like that, I'm pretty certain that it is even ancestral to those pokemon who evolve via special means."''
:::Again, this is inherently contradictory. If these are supposed to be new Pokemon, who only came into existence through a modern item, how could Mew possibly be said to already contain their DNA just because it can ''copy their form''? Remember, Porygon is said to be completely artificial, not an accident like Muk or Grimer.
::::''"lets remember that game physics are different from animé physics. Dialga, Palkia and giratina symbolise physics of the Pokémon world: time, space and dimensions,so if Arceus is the master of them that wouldn't make sense:creationism and science don't go together."'''
:::If Arceus is their master, then that would be in-game science. Science is the pursuit of ''truth'', not the pursuit of purely-materialistic explanations whether it's the truth or not.
:::Also, Giratina would symbolize the afterlife, or some other term for "The Other", not dimensions - "space", in the concept referred to by the triad, would necessarily contain dimensions already, parallel or measurable.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 05:46, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
::::I'm not SAYING that Ditto necessarily IS the ancestor, I only brought it into the picture since it's the only OTHER pokemon to know Transform. And besides which, the Pokédex entry for Ditto explicitly stated that it can transform by rearranging it's Genetic Structure (in other words, it's DNA) to that of it's target. It ALSO replicates their move set and, unless I'm mistaken, even their stats and natures.
::::actually, the Pokedex contradicted ITSELF in that case. I mean, if it doesn't have ANY DNA, then Ditto (not to mention Mew) couldn't transform into it OR it's family, and we all know that it can. Try and get a ditto, and try to face off against Porygon or it's family members in your games, and use transform against it if you don't believe me.
::::Ahem... when I said "Mega Man X" I mean from the Mega Man X saga ALL THE WAY to Mega Man ZX saga. In Mega Man Zero 4: ''Intro: The Reploids... They were robots designed to look like humans... these '''technical marvels''' were given unique personalities and were intended to be the perfect workers and the perfect partners of mankind...'' Later, Dr. Weil says something that would hint at Reploid being COMPLETELY mechanical. This is when Zero encounters him at the Ragnarōk core: Dr. Weil: ''Justice!? Freedom!? Worthless ideals! '''You Reploids are Just Machines, but you started a war a long time ago in the name of freedom!''' And Humans! Look what they did to me! Driving Me away while spurting the word "Justice!"'' And don't assume that he knows nothing about Reploid Physiology since he worked on reviving Reploids prior to his banishment from Neo Arcadia, and besides which, the reason why he was banished was because he created Dark Elf and augmented Zero's original body to become the horrific Omega, as well as instigated the Elf Wars. That shows that he knows quite a LOT about Reploids.
::::as for Axl, it was indeed DNA. in fact, Model A, whose personality (as well as his abilities and the form that Grey/Ashe take on when Megamerging with Model A) is clearly Based off of Axl, and would have easily been labeled as a reincarnation of Axl if Master Albert didn't say that it was actually "Model Albert". Heck, after beating Buckfire in the game, he explicitly mentions that he absorbed Buckfire's DNA, which would allow Grey/ashe to transform and utilize his abilities at will.
::::It also mentioned that Mew possessed the DNA of all Pokémon, though (and anyways, just saying that it "possesses the Genetic code for "pokémon" pretty much implies ALL Pokemon.). And that's what I was saying about Transform the whole time. I mean, Ancestors have to have the DNA of ALL Pokémon to actually be labeled as an Ancestor of all pokémon.
::::As for the Arceus entry, the way Pearl's Pokedex entry was worded made it seem as though it Shaped the universe as soon as it was born. And anyways, the Origin Myth implied that Arceus was the creator of the universe, whileas Pearl's Dex entry stated that it merely shaped it.
::::How can a god lose arms? I mean, Did Ares become one-armed? No, he didn't, and he has fought several wars where something like Decapitation or losing some part of limbs can be considered inevitable, esp. during his time.
::::Lets see, because the Origin thing mentioned that Dialga and Palkia are two halves of Arceus, and, if they were truly two halves of the same being, then having them both in your party would gain you a new arceus. but it doesn't.
::::Let's see, because only the Crime syndicates, the Hero/ine, and in one case, a BF leader, was able to capture legendaries. Also, in the Anime, the only time that the legendaries actually CAUSED a natural imbalance was in "Pokemon 2000", which even THEN, it was hinted that it was actually caused by territorial disputes rather than because it was captured in and of itself. most of the other movies and anime related things that featured legendaries didn't have the legendaries causing all Hades to break loose right when they were captured. Besides, as common in many mythos, A god simply cannot be captured by Mortals.
::::Because, if they didn't HAVE DNA, then Mew and Ditto CAN'T transform, since the move Transform requires the Genetic Code of a pokémon. Besides, that was directed at the guy who said that those who evolve via trades and items can't be related to Mew.
::::No, it's in game Mythology. The Origin story is nothing more than one big myth.
::::And yet it's constantly implied that Giratina is listed among Dialga and Palkia.
::::Anyways, that's all for now. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 11:25, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
::'''Ditto''': Your logic was that, because it can use Transform, it must be the ancestor. Either this implies that Ditto is also the ancestor (a contradiction), or you need to not make such claims. Its inherently self-contradictory.
::While Ditto's profile ''does'' sometimes say that it '''copies''' (not already possesses) the opponent's genetic code, it also says that it is "Capable of reorganizing its cells to transform into an exact duplicate of its enemy. It is usually a shapeless blob.", and that it can transform to resemble a rock. It is explicitly clear from the Pokedex entries, the description of Transform, and how Ditto is presented in the series, that it is merely ''reshaping it's '''own''' genetic code to '''resemble''' something else''. Because, as we all know, ROCK's DON'T HAVE DNA.
::The description of Transform, and how Ditto uses it, does ''not'' require that the opponent has DNA, only that Ditto does. ''Please keep this in mind''.
::The definition of "machine" does not require that something be purely inorganic in nature, and neither of the quotes you provided really even claims anything near that. Weil's quote, in that case, is emotional, and almost certainly pointing out his view that Reploid's are inferior and by nature servants of humans. This is the view used by ''all'' the villains in the Zero series, and is actually a ''huge'' part of the conflict. Play the games again.
::'''Axl''': No, it's not DNA. It's never said to be DNA. It's said to be a special ability of his, to transform his body. Model A, while designed to be a callback to Axl, is NOT Axl. However, I grant you that the Shittenou are said to have been derived from X's DNA. As Reploids are ''never'' said to be completely mechanical, and DNA is only mentioned as belonging to X and the Shittenou (notice that in ZX, Reploids and organics ''have been combined anyway'' - play the game again), it doesn't support your claim that something purely mechanical or programmed can still have DNA.
::'''Ancestor'': No, it says that some scientists ''claim'' that based on its abilities. '''You need to get that through your head''', and stop claiming that the Pokedex outright claims these things. You should also learn that your concept of "ancestry" is completely, utterly flawed, with no basis in any kind of genetics, and absolutely ridiculous. I'm sorry to be so harsh, but it's outright folly. That's NOT how an ancestor would be determined.
::'''Pearl''': You are again twisting or inserting things into the Pokedex that are not there in order to fit your views.
::'''Arms''': Hephaestus. Hercules. Pangu. Ymir. Odin. Please, think before spouting - gods are ''very'' prone to lose parts of their bodies.
::'''Halves''': First off, it doesn't. It claims they are two parts of Arceus. There is ''no basis'' in science ''or'' mythology for what you claim - Pangu and Ymir don't suddenly come back just because all the pieces are there. Two halves of an apple don't rejoin to a full apple just because they are there.
::'''Capture''': Pokemon 2000, in which the sea itself sprung forth, Pokemon the Movie, in which the world almost drowned, Pokemon 3, in which UNOWN nearly crystallized the earth, Pokemon 4Ever, in which messing with Celebi caused the forest to become a rampaging monster, Jirachi Wishmaker, in which messing with Jirachi caused the earth to come alive as a rampaging monster, Rise of Darkrai, in which Dialga and Palkia being disturbed nearly rent apart time and space...nearly every movie follows this format. Don't be so dense. Why would the world ''immediately'' come apart, anyway? If you removed the moon, it would still take some time for the seas to destabilize. As for your assertion that gods cannot be captured - you clearly have no knowledge of mythology. Such a thing is rife throughout Norse, Greek, Roman, Chinese, Japanese, Native American, African....nearly every mythology has such a thing happen. Only Abrahamic religions, where the ''sole'' God has absolute power and absolute perfection, has a deity invulnerable to human effort.
::'''New Pokemon''': First off, I didn't say all new Pokemon didn't have DNA, only that some of these included Pokemon who are explicitly said to be purely artificial. Second off, ''you really need to actually look stuff up before claiming things'' - your claims about, well, damn near everything in this discussion have almost no basis in what the game's have actually said. Transform requires the USER's DNA to be changed to cause the USER to resemble the opponent. There is no intake of DNA, and it would be ridiculous to claim that Ditto already has a databank of all DNA (remember, it can turn into Ash - is Ditto Ash's ancestor?)
::...it would be mythology (a story which explains the origin of the world) AND science (an experimentally fact-checked story which explains an empirical truth). Mythology is ''not'' equivalent to "lies and untruths".
::'''Giratina''': ...um, yeah. Which is why I explained that it can't represent something ruled by one of the others.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 22:37, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
:::As I said in my previous post, I wasn't implying that Ditto is the ANCESTOR (I only brought it into the picture because it's the only pokémon aside from Mew to learn Transform. Did I SAY that Ditto was the ancestor of all pokemon? no, I didn't.).
:::And that's why I differentiated between Mew and Ditto, see, Ditto needed to copy the DNA, yet it is hinted repeatedly even in DP that Mew's DNA contains all of Pokemon (more than just moves, also stats and typings to a certain extent [I.E. Transform]. Heck, it can even utilize Judgement if it wanted to (Not by move tutor's of course, but definitely via Metronome.). That's what makes Mew the ancestor. Besides, there's more to being an ancestor than just being there first. You must ALSO be genetically related. I'm not going into the DP thing since you're obviously missing the idea.
:::Ok, I'l agree with the Norse gods (though to be fair, it wasn't caused by Mortals), but Hercules was a half god, meaning, he can still be mutilated significantly by mortals with visible scarring.
:::Ok, I already covered Pokemon 2000, and the Unown weren't TRUE Legendary Pokemon. Also, The only thing caused by the capture of Celebi was the forest pokemon being POed, that Mecha didn't count since Iron Masked marauder made that mech. All Celebi did was just act as the core. Heck, Ask Blackjack Palazzo if you don't believe me, since she also mentioned that as well. I'll acknowledge Jirachi, though. As for the Rise of Darkrai, Humans weren't even responsible for Dialga and Palkia fighting, they just met when they ended up in a bad mood. Also, Mewtwo tried to do those actions to try and earn the right to exist (though most of that was eliminated from the Dub, sadly.). As for what you stated, if gods CAN be captured by mere mortals, EXPLAIN why Pirithous couldn't even capture Persephone without having his own butt stuck on a bench for all of eternity?! Heck, name one story where Zeus or any of the PURE gods were captured by mere mortals and forced to do their bidding by the Mortals command. Also, just FYI, I just mastered AP Latin, so DON'T say I'm not knowledgeable in Mythology in the Graeco-roman kind at least.
:::And for the last time, I didn't IMPLY nor state that Ditto even HAD a databank of DNA, that attribute belongs to Mew, and Mew alone.
:::Sheesh, sometimes you guys are impossible.[[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 23:00, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
::::It doesn't matter whether you explicitly say that Ditto is the ancestor - you're reasoning relies on claiming that the ability to use Transform is an indicator of having the DNA, and being the ancestor. Just by looking at Ditto, that's false. Being snarky about it doesn't change the fact that you're wrong.
::::Clefairy also has metronome, so Metronome cannot be an indicator of being the ancestor. To be the ancestor of all Pokemon, all Pokemon must be your descendants. Dialga and Palkia are clearly and explicitly descendants of Arceus only, unless Mew is Arceus' ancestor, which would be contradictory to what we are told. Again, you are confusing something the game frequently reiterates is a rumor, with what the game puts forth as exposition.
::::...what the hell do you mean "to be fair"? I never claimed that mortals caused the gods to lose body parts, and its completely irrelevant to discussion. As for Hercules, he became a full god after his original death.
::::....okay, I'm just going to post back your original post on this sub-topic, because you seem to have a bad memory:
:::''"and anyways, the legends also hinted that Legendaries can't be captured by mere mortals, yet most of the crime syndicates, the Pyramid King and even the protagonist has been wielding these pokemon '''as if they were nothing.'''"''
::::Mewtwo, the only Pokemon I can think of that was actually wielded by a "crime syndicate", caused those actions because it was PO'd about ''being used by humans''.
::::As far as I can tell, your implication with that passage was that Legendaries weren't the god-like beings that the legends indicated - ''yet their actions, even in The Rise of Darkrai, explicitly demonstrates that they are''. Whether a human actively screws with them or not, they ''can and will'' rip the world apart if they're in a bad mood. I'm also unaware of the legends implying that it's impossible to capture them - only that it's impossible to safely enslave them.
::::Wow...you pass high school latin, and you deem it logical to choose ''one'' example from ''one'' mythology to claim that ''all'' mortals in ''all'' mythology will never have the upper hand against ''any'' god? I'm definitely out of my league here!
::::Some other examples:
:::::''...Zeus then ordered Hades to chain Sisyphus in Tartarus. Sisyphus slyly asked Thanatos to try the chains to show how they worked. When Thanatos did so, Sisyphus secured them and threatened Hades. This caused an uproar, and no human could die until Ares (who was annoyed that his battles had lost their fun because his opponents would not die) intervened, freeing Thanatos and sending Sisyphus to Tartarus.''
:::::''Tantalus offered up his son, Pelops, as a sacrifice to the gods. He cut Pelops up, boiled him, and served him up as food for the gods. The gods were said to be aware of his plan for their feast, so they didn't touch the offering; only Demeter, distraught by the loss of her daughter, Persephone, "did not realize what it was" and ate part of the boy's shoulder.''
::::Yes, those who mess with the gods get it in the end - but isn't this ''exactly'' what happens to those who mess with the Legendary Pokemon? Even innocent play with pseudo-legendaries like Unown can endanger the world.
::::...I don't know how I can make this more plain:
:::::'''''You claimed that Mew's ability to use Transform meant it had to be the ancestor, and brought up Ditto as a "evidence" for your interpretation of how Transform worked.''''' Now, when confronted with this, you claim that the ability to use Transform does not imply something is the ancestor. '''''Make up your mind'''''.
:::::Actually, to be fair, you don't actually bring up this glaring inconsistency. You just try to avoid the contradiction, and try to "eat your cake and have it too."

To summarize:
#Mythology, as portrayed in the series, is quite reliable.
#Arceus' mythology is neither self-contradictory, nor unique among real-world mythology.
#The claim about Mew having the DNA of all Pokemon is not only contradictory to the explicit facts about artificial Pokemon such as Porygon, but never even claimed as fact, only as a rumor.
#Transform, as described in-game and as demonstrated by Ditto, does ''not'' require a databank of all DNA. It merely requires the ability to change shape, or to replicate another's DNA.
#Metronome, as described in-game and as demonstrated by Clefairy, also does not require a databank of all DNA.
#Claiming that Mew is the ancestor of all Pokemon is inherently contradictory to the stated claims about Arceus, Dialga, Palkia, Mesprit, Axelf, Uxie, and Heatran.
#Even before considering the contradictions in the total mythology, '''''The idea that having a copy of all of a group's DNA implies you are their ancestor is inherently ridiculous and contradictory. It is the opposite of how genetics and inheritance actually works, even on the most basic level. It can be immediately refuted by a thought-examination of a child and his two, un-related parents.'''''

[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 08:08, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Umm... Hello. May I be permitted to submit my own wild abstractions?(*looks around*) Thank you. Well, what if Arceus began by creating the Universe and then created Mew as a template for all Pokémon who then flew off and was disregarded whilst Arceus was busy creating the 'gods' of Time and Space... Or something...[[User:Monblazon|Monblazon]] 21:15, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
::That would work. Mew could conceivably be the progenitor or ancestor of ''most'' Pokemon, but not all.
::Also, I'm sorry, it turns out Axl's Copy Shot ''does'' use DNA Cores, so I apologize for being wrong about that bit.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 07:26, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
:::Thank you! I am good at filling in inconsistencies in canon like that...[[User:Monblazon|Monblazon]] 18:53, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
::::Do we call this the creation paradox? '''[[User:Optimatum|<sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Optimatum|Talk]]|[[User:Optimatum/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''10:38 3 Sep 2008'''''
:::::I'm not sure what you're referring to, as the only creation paradox I know of would require Mew to have travelled through time and created Arceus, which is in contradiction to what we've been given ("The Original One breathed alone"), as well as not based in any ability of Mew's that we know of. Could you explain what you mean?[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 19:33, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
::::::That would be a Temporal Paradox. The actual Paradox here is that since Mew is supposed to be the ancestor of ALL Pokémon, and Arceus is a Pokémon, the original, then one must contradict the other - which is the meaning of the word paradox. More or less...[[User:Monblazon|Monblazon]] 19:48, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
[un-indent] Look, I just feel the need to point this out. Do ''we'' have ''God's'' DNA? I don't see what's so contradictory about Arceus making Mew which all Pokémon (with the exception of, one assumes, Arceus's five avatars) may have eventually [Darwinian] evolved from. (...I just completely described intelligent design, didn't I?)--[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 20:04, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, and anyways, if we were to go by the definition of "Retcon", the statement of Mew believed to be the ancestor of all pokemon wouldn't even exist in D/P (Heck, they could have gotten to mention one of Mew's OLD Dex entries.) [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 20:11, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

check the DP Pokédex entry it says that scientists ''belive'' it is not known but believed in, no proof so wait for official information or this will end in a pardox.--[[User:Nobody777|Nobody777]] 16:45, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

:It is a paradox. But not a very vicious one.[[User:Monblazon|Monblazon]] 17:43, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

::Yeah, and besides, if we were to mention that we should eliminate the Mew dex thing as proof that it may not be retconned just because scientists believed that it was the ancestor of all pokemon, then by that same token, we should eliminate Arceus's Dex entry as proof that it is retconned since it says that it's believed to be the creator of the universe in MYTHOLOGY, in other words, it's believed to be the creator of the universe by a LIE! [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 19:46, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

:Exumptly. [[User:Monblazon|Monblazon]] 22:35, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

I think it's a losing battle to try to make sense of world when it's creators care less about it than you do. [[User:Kajillion|Kajillion]] 02:11, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Here is how I belive it is done It just like the Greek Mythology

Mew created Arceus
Then Arceus created the Universe
Then he created Time and Space (D and P)
it just like how Chaos created Gaia and Gaia created Ornoas and they had the Titans

Its the same thing here all over

Remember in the 2000 Movei the Titan of Fire Ice and Lighting

And I Belive they have called some other Pokemom Titans before also

It all the same thing its Pokemon version of Greek Mythology

== STAB ==

The movesets seem to automatically assume Arceus is of the Fighting Type. I am unfamiliar with how this is coded, and so don't know how to fix it - is there anyone who can fix it?[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 06:00, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
:Don't you mean Dragon-type? --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 06:03, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
::Everything on the page assumes that Arceus is a randomly-generated type. It's a bit of code TTE added.--[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 06:42, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
:::Arceus is a {{type2|{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|0=???|1=Normal|2=Fighting|3=Flying|4=Poison|5=Ground|6=Rock|7=Bug|8=Ghost|9=Steel|10=Fire|11=Water|12=Grass|13=Electric|14=Psychic|15=Ice|16=Dragon|17=Dark}}}}... everyone knows that.
:::Yeah. My random code that changes depending on the time that the page is last loaded to cache. Takes the Unix time (seconds since 1/1/1970) and then does a modulo division by 18, assigning one of the eighteen forms of Arceus to each remainder. Unown does a similar thing, but you only notice it in the evoboxes. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 07:04, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

== Empty ==

There is no content in the "In the anime", "In the manga" and "In the TCG". So why not somebody delete it?
[[User:FireHazard|FireHazard]] 03:07, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
:So when it comes out we can put it there.All pages fit a designated template[[User:Darth Cookie Monster|DCM]]

== Moves ==
why is the movelist not where its supposed to be????
or is it just my computer????[[User:Dion24|Dion24]] 11:03, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

:It looks fine to me. What problem are you seeing? ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 17:49, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

::The level up nd TM learnsets appear at the top of the page over all the writing [[User:Dion24|Dion24]] 07:53, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

that happened to me, and I realized that happened because I browsed all of the arceus formes or most of them.--[[User:Nobody777|Nobody777]] 13:15, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
:Everything on the page goes wired after you press show sprites and the movelist and everything else goes weird, and this goes for all pages. It might only be my computer, but it should be changed to suit all. --[[User:Wowy|Wowy]] 00:51, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
::I don't understand... What browser are you using? '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 07:01, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

== Sprite and Evolution Sections ==

I think it's kind of wierd to have the rock sprite in the evolution section when it starts out in normal forme without any items on it. Also I think that in the sprite section it should have every sprite for Arceus's forms. This is just a suggestion. Also on a minor edit why is the rock type the default for this page --[[User:23-03-33|Tom]] 12:12, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
:If I remember it right, it depends on the second you go to the page. tc26 12:27, 6 September 2008 (UTC)