Bulbapedia - User contributions [en]

Talk:Pokémon Black and White Versions 2

2012-06-08T04:27:06Z

Grei: /* Musicals */ new section

{{forums notice|June 23, 2012}}

==Formes==
It says "Two new formes" but it does not say "of Kyurem." [[User:TorchicBlaziken|TorchicBlaziken]] ([[User_talk:TorchicBlaziken|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/TorchicBlaziken|edits]]) 02:22, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
:We won't know if they are formes of Kyurem until a source confirms it. Right now, it's all speculation.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 02:26, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
::While it is all speculation they look more like alternate forms of Reshiram and Zekrom instead. [[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen Fennec]] 02:34, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
:::[https://twitter.com/#!/Junichi_Masuda/status/173576515219505153 Stated Kyurem here.] But there's debate on whether they're forms or separate Pokémon. [[Typhlosion (Pokémon)|★]][[User:Jo The Marten|Jo the Marten]][[Flygon (Pokémon)|★]] [[User_Talk:Jo The Marten|ಠ_ಠ]][[Cilan (anime)|♥]] 02:36, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
::::Ah, nice to know then. Wonder if they'll have something to do with Reshiram and Zekrom at all, also looking forward to a bit of change in the overall story plot. [[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen Fennec]] 02:39, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
:::::Well, from what it looks like, it seems that it is combining Zekrom/Reshiram with Kyurem. I wonder how they will do that? Item? Special shrine? But about what Jo said above, they will be forms, as it says in [[Kyurem]]s trivia ''"There is placeholder data for an alternate form of Kyurem in Pokémon Black and White".'' --[[User:Rsrdaman|'''×Rsr''']][[User_Talk:Rsrdaman|'''daman×''']] 02:59, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
::::::Actually, if you watch the trailer for the new movie coming out on the Japanese website, it shows Zekrom and Reshiram's powers going into Kyurem. This further confirms that these are Kyurem's alternate formes, and not Zekrom's our Reshiram's. [[User:Mikk317|Mikk317]] 05:10, 6 March 2012 (UTC)
I saw the covers of the games,and the white and black kyurem's on the covers look completely different then normal white kyurem and black kyurem.What gives?--[[User:Supermon|Supermon]] 12:38, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
:There's also two "formes" for Reshiram and Zekrom (lit up and not lit up). They are apparently some "mode" (Formes with forms?). We don't really know much about them yet. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 12:44, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

thanks. i thought that Kyurem had 5 formes or something!--[[User:Supermon|Supermon]] 11:30, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

reshiram and zekrom don't have two forms that is their animation.--[[User:Poke1|Poke1]] 22:48, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

And in the commercial it shows how kyurem changes from white kyurem without the tubes on the back to the white kyurem on the boxart.--[[User:Poke1|Poke1]] 23:58, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

== Names of mascots ==

Junichi Masuda has stated on Twitter that the names of the new forms are '''White Kyurem''' and '''Black Kyurem'''. [[User:ZMT123|ZMT123]] 03:32, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

==Interwiki==
Page is blocked, could you add an interwiki link to [[:it:Pokémon Nero e Bianco 2]]?--[[User:Qwilava|Qwilava]] 08:37, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
:Added. [[Typhlosion (Pokémon)|★]][[User:Jo The Marten|Jo the Marten]][[Flygon (Pokémon)|★]] [[User_Talk:Jo The Marten|ಠ_ಠ]][[Cilan (anime)|♥]] 08:38, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

==US website==
Doesn't appear to have been added. [http://www.pokemon.com/us/pokemon-video-games/pokemon-black-version-2-and-pokemon-white-version-2/ It's not much, but it's official.] [[User:GoldenCelebi|GoldenCelebi]] 10:57, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
:I am reluctant to add it. It is just a sub-section, unlike [http://www.pokemonblackwhite.com/ this one]. ♫♪ [[User:Adyniz|'''エイデ''']][[User talk:Adyniz|'''ィニズ''']] ♪♫ 11:21, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

== Color's for representation. ==

To avoid confusion with Black and White I think the 2 colors that represent this game on Wiki pages should be a blue and red to match the color on each logo and background for the official site. What do you guys think? [[User:ArchedThunder|ArchedThunder]] 12:41, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
:What about if it gets confused instead with the Generation I games Red and Blue? Just pointing out... [[User:Haxorus|'''Hax''']][[User talk:Haxorus|'''or''']][[Special:MyContributions|'''us''']] 12:45, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
::All I have to say is Ruby and Sapphire. Besides they will be a different shade just like Ruby and Sapphire where and they will also be reversed, being Blue and Red instead of Red and Blue.[[User:ArchedThunder|ArchedThunder]] 12:55, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
:::Thank you to the person who changed the color.[[User:ArchedThunder|ArchedThunder]] 13:14, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
::::Wait, who changed it back and why?[[User:ArchedThunder|ArchedThunder]] 13:53, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

== Mascots reversed? ==

I just noticed something on [http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/4/46/Kyurem_forms.png the new release]. The Kyurem/Zekrom and Kyurem/Reshiram are reversed. On the original B/W, Zekrom was on the white side, and Reshiram on the black side. Its seems its reversed now.--[[User:Rsrdaman|'''×Rsr''']][[User_Talk:Rsrdaman|'''daman×''']] 15:28, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
:Yes they are, but this isn't the right place for that discussion. Please go to the forums with comments/questions of this nature. [[User:Pokemaster97|--Pokemaster]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|97]] 15:44, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

== generation ==

why is it under generation v? is there any offical source to this (even though we know it might be true) -[[User:Pokeant|Pokeant]] 16:37, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

We don't really know if it is Gen V, but the fact that it uses forms of a Gen V Pokemon as its mascot make if all but confirmed. The way it looks, at least for now, is that they decided to ditch the 3rd game idea for this Gen and instead do two full sequels to BW. If they say these are a new gen or we see completely new Pokemon then we can start talking about this being Gen VI, but as it stands I think we should just leave it be.[[User:ArchedThunder|ArchedThunder]] 16:41, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

== Trying to clear up some unconfirmed rumors ==

I suggest a paragraph be added to the article stating something like "There is no confirmation on whether these games are a [[third version]] or not." [[User:Bwburke94|Bwburke94]] 20:26, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

The article doesn't even insinuate that, it says out right that they are second paired versions. 2 games can't be a 3rd version.[[User:ArchedThunder|ArchedThunder]] 22:43, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

:What he trying to mean is, most people think that these games are the '"double" 3rd versions, like Platinum, Emerald and Crystal. But if that's so, you mean these are just the continued part of original B&W? There will be a real "third" version? That's almost impossible. {{unsigned|Acellutor}}

== Classification ==

Well,looks like it can have'''3''' types-Dragon+ice+fire\electric.And can it be a new duo or trio with Kyurem or Part of the tao trio?--Shravs [[User talk:Littleroot leader shravan(ability leader)|(New Bark Gym)]] 05:09, 27 February 2012 (UTC)
:From sources, Kyurem has two new forms, each resemblin to Zekrom and/or Reshiram. So it would still be within the Tao trio. But 3 types is OP, and awkward considering the type advantages/disadvantages. I would say Kyurem would be Ice/Dragon but retaining the power of it's other form. My speculation point, but I would doubt 3 types. [[User:Chocos0|Chocos0]] 06:06, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

==European Autumn 2012 Release Confirmed==
Could someone with the powers to edit this page please add that Nintendo UK have confirmed an Autumn 2012 release for this pair? Source: http://www.officialnintendomagazine.co.uk/35866/pokemon-black-and-white-2-uk-release-date-is-autumn-2012/ [[User:Ryu Shoji|Ryu Shoji]], 10:56, 27 February, 2012 (BST)
:Done. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 11:14, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

== North America release confirmed: Fall 2012 ==

The American release window has been confirmed - see this article: http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2012/02/north_america_gets_pokemon_black_and_white_2_this_fall

I'm unable to add it to the article myself, so can someone who is able to edit it add the date?
[[User:NFreak007|NFreak007]] 14:55, 27 February 2012 (UTC)
:I just found out about this myself and updated [[n:Pokémon Black and White 2 coming to North America and Europe this autumn|the Bulbanews article]]. This page is now fixed too. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 15:01, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

== Redirect sentence regarding the BW002 episode ==

Greetings, I respectfully disagree with the unitalicising of the English title portion, "Enter Iris and Axew". On this site, all episode titles are italicised when put against regular unitalicised text, and the opposite should be done in this case as in other examples elsewhere in life. [[User:Haxorus|'''Hax''']][[User talk:Haxorus|'''or''']][[Special:MyContributions|'''us''']] 15:51, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
:It is already italicized, which is what is used for titles. When it is surrounded by italicized text, it doesn't need to become un-italicized. This is how everything else does it anyway. It is more important to have the title in italics rather than in contrast to regular text. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 03:23, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

== 3ds or ds ==

will this be on 3ds or ds i need to know {{unsigned|Pokefanboy}}

:It'll be on the [[Nintendo DS]], but will be compatible with the [[Nintendo 3DS]]. Yes, the press release was confusing. By the way, it's a good idea to sign your posts with <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>, which is converted into an automatic link to your userpage. {{unsigned|GoldenCelebi}}
:That article mentions this. Don't mean to sound rude, but this is exactly what this site is for. --[[User:HoennMaster|Hoenn]][[User talk:HoennMaster|Master]] 18:05, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

== English artwork ==
Possible to use these artworks? [http://fronttowardsgamer.com/2012/02/27/pokemon-black-and-white-2-announced/ Black & White 2] -- [[User:Chickensdoorknob|ℂℏɨ₡ƙ℮ᵰᵴ∂ⱺ☮яϰŊøɓ]] 23:53, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
:Those look fanmade. They look nothing like the leaked Japanese boxes and they always use the same. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 00:02, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
::Those aren't fanmade, actually- they're on [http://www.play-asia.com/Pokemon_White_Version_2/paOS-13-71-ba-49-en-70-4lbh.html Playasia] and other pre-order sites. They're only placeholders, though. Official placeholders, but placeholders nonetheless. [[User:Yamiidenryuu|Yamiidenryuu]] 15:04, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
:::Look at them, they were made in MSPaint. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 15:08, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

== Two official artworks? ==

How come Black Kyurem and White Kyurem have two official artworks? I'm not saying it's a mistake or even a lie, you can easily check that it's true by watching the Flash intro animation of the Japanese website. But that's the issue here: why are there two different yet official artworks for both of Kyurem's new Formes? [[User:Pokemon lover|Sato]][[User talk:Pokemon lover|Mew]] 17:33, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
:There's also two artworks for Reshiram and Zekrom (lit up and not lit up). They are apparently some "mode" (Formes with forms?). We don't really know much about them yet. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 13:36, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

I have the same opinion. The boxart may be some kind of 'mode' as in 'burst mode'or something. The boxart of White Kyurem looks vaguely similar to the art of primal dialga. The pic aforementioned is present in the bulbapedia archive. Please give ur thoughts on this post.[[User:Auraguardian197|Auraguardian197]]

i think it has to do with its ability. the glowing might be from turboblaze ant terravolt to white/black kyurem respectively. -{{u|deoxys80}}
:It's just their Overdrive mode. Reshiram and Zekrom had the ''exact same thing''. [[:a:File:643Reshiram.png|Normal Reshiram]], [[:a:File:643Reshiram-Activated.png|Overdrive Reshiram]]. [[:a:File:644Zekrom.png|Normal Zekrom]], [[:a:File:644Zekrom-Activated.png|Overdrive Zekrom]]. It has nothing to do with abilities, or moves, or formes. [[Typhlosion (Pokémon)|★]][[User:Jo The Marten|Jo the Marten]][[Flygon (Pokémon)|★]] [[User_Talk:Jo The Marten|ಠ_ಠ]][[Cilan (anime)|♥]] 18:21, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

== Trivia? ==

Would it be relevant and/or noteworthy to add that these games mark the second time the main series Pokémon games have the number 2 in their names, with the first time being the name initially announced for the original Gold and Silver ('''{{tt|ポケットモンスター２金・銀|Poketto Monsutā 2: Kin Gin}}''' ''Pocket Monsters 2: Gold and Silver'')? Even though the 2 was eventually dropped for Gold and Silver, it was still an official yet temporary name. [[User:Pokemon lover|Sato]][[User talk:Pokemon lover|Mew]] 17:49, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
:I'm totally for this. Something like: "These games are the first games in the main series to be released with a "2" in their name, though the Japanese versions of G/S were intended to have tis number in their name but this was dropped before release" ?? As long as there's a nod to the almost-Pkmn 2: G/S thing I think it's a great idea! [[User:Oshawhat?|Oshawhat?]] 09:14, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

== Parameter on the Japanese website URL ==

The URL for the Japanese website does not need the '''?a001=msign''' parameter. Please remove it. [[User:Pokemon lover|Sato]][[User talk:Pokemon lover|Mew]] 22:25, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

== Second set of direct sequels? ==

Aren't Black 2 and White 2 the second set of direct sequels in the main series? Gold and Silver are direct sequels to Red and Green (likewise, HeartGold and SoulSilver are direct sequels to FireRed and LeafGreen). The only difference is that they're from separate generations, since for all we know, Black 2 and White 2 are Generation V games like Black and White. If so, shouldn't this be mentioned in the article? [[User:Pokemon lover|Sato]][[User talk:Pokemon lover|Mew]] 22:31, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
:Considering that it hasn't even really been confirmed that these are sequels, I'd say no. Wait until we know for sure at least. [[User:Yamiidenryuu|Yamiidenryuu]] 00:11, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
::Don't worry, I'll wait. I can't edit the article anyway. I was just pointing out this so it can be taken in consideration when we have full details about the games. [[User:Pokemon lover|Sato]][[User talk:Pokemon lover|Mew]] 13:56, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

==No info?==

Ummmm... The games are available for preorder. Shouldn't there be info on the storyline and stuff? it's-a me, [[User:Slowbro|anonymous]]
:One would think there would be more info by now, but the reason is simply because no more info has been released. When more info is released it will be added to the article. [[User:Pokemaster97|--Pokemaster]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|97]] 22:50, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
::We will be getting lots of info next [[Pokémon Smash!]] (they said they would be revealing B2W2 info on that episode). --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 11:14, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

==Beta==

This could turn into beta. Any official source confirming that people are making this game? The above [[Special:Contributions/Wildgoose|comment]] is [[User talk: Wildgoose|supported]] by [[User:Wildgoose|Wildgoose]]. 00:57, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:Go to the article and scroll to the bottom. There is a list of sources there. [[User:Pokemaster97|--Pokemaster]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|97]] 01:09, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Australian Release Date ==

In the infobox, it lists the Australian release as Spring 2012. At first this really confused me as I thought only Japan got it this Spring. Because of the different seasons in the Northern and Southern hemisphere, and because a lot of Bulbapedia's users come from the Northern Hemisphere, could we add a tooltip to make it {{tt|Spring 2012|Northern Hemisphere Fall/Autumn}}. I think this would help a lot of people who came to the site. [[User:MajesticRayquaza|''Majestic'']][[User talk:MajesticRayquaza|'''Rayquaza''']] 09:08, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:I don't think so. The seasons will become irrelevant once we get an actual date, and the only people who should really be concerned with the release date are the people it applies to (i.e. Oceanians.) Plus it might seem unfair. If we put a note for the Northerners that South Spring = North Autumn, then we should do the same for Southerners that North Autumn = South Spring. [[Typhlosion (Pokémon)|★]][[User:Jo The Marten|Jo the Marten]][[Flygon (Pokémon)|★]] [[User_Talk:Jo The Marten|ಠ_ಠ]][[Cilan (anime)|♥]] 09:16, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Amazon release date ==

Not sure if this means anything but I just saw that Amazon (through the official Nintendo seller) has the two versions up for pre-order with a release date of December 31, 2012 (I'm not sure if that's their generic date for an unknown release or the actual date though). [[User:OnixPachirisu|OnixPachirisu]] 18:52, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It's just a placeholder so they can take pre-orders. Nintendo already announced a fall (Sept-Nov) release. --[[User:HoennMaster|Hoenn]][[User talk:HoennMaster|Master]] 18:57, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== More Release Date info ==

Per Play-Asia, the Japanese Version's release date is June 23rd, and the US release will be in October: http://www.play-asia.com/paOScore/19-71-8s-49-en-15-Pokemon-43-8s-18-2.html

[[User:Luigi-San|Luigi-San]] 03:09, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
:Well the Japanese release date is true. October does fit for the US, though is Play-asia a good source for information on the US release date? In any case, we'll probably find out about the US release date in a few months. Maybe E3? [[User:Torpoleon|Torpoleon]] 17:38, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
::It's been known for like [https://twitter.com/#!/bulbanews/status/179568320293511168 a month now]. Play-Asia is a decent source but I would still prefer to wait for an official source to confirm it, just for precautionary measures. ♫♪ [[User:Adyniz|'''エイデ''']][[User talk:Adyniz|'''ィニズ''']] ♪♫ 17:46, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

== Update ==
Page needs to be updated with new Coro Coro information. [[User:Dragonace|Dragonace]] 06:58, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
:Not yet.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 07:24, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

== Ice cover ==

I don't think the article should say that Unova is engulfed in ice because it says in the Bulbanews article that it is unconfirmed whether that is actually part of the region or it is just there to cover up areas that haven't been revealed yet. [[User:PkmnChmp5|PkmnChmp5]] 23:38, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
:I agree too. There seems to be a confusion. [[User:Han Ji-Wan|Han Ji-Wan]] 23:47, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
From a talk page it says that CoroCoro confirmed the ice is only to cover upcoming stuff--[[User:Poke1|Poke1]] 17:12, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
:::According to {{u|Umeko}}'s Nihongo-fu: ''What Corocoro says in reference to the ice is essentially "What in the world is with the map freezing over? Has something strange happened?!"'' [[User:Masatoshi|Masatoshi]][[User_talk:Masatoshi|''talk'']] 17:26, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

what is a Umeko's Nihongo-fu?--[[User:Poke1|Poke1]] 20:59, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
* Umeko is a person, and "Nihongo" is the Japanese word for "Japanese". It's an attempt by Umeko at translating it from Japanese. [[User:Rickie-d|Rickie-d]] 01:19, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

i think that it is just covering new areas otherwise there would be no Pokemon league [[User:Ultinuc|Ultinuc]] 01:28, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

== Towns ==

I am 99.9% certain that there are 3 towns in Southwest Unova, not 2. [[User:Han Ji-Wan|Han Ji-Wan]] 03:15, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

It says at least 2 towns.--[[User:Poke1|Poke1]] 20:58, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

I see three towns but the one below Driftveil City could also be something similar to Cold Storage. [[User:Ariano|Ariano]] 08:19, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

=="2"==
I think that Black ＆ White 2 is a reference to this version taking place 2 years after Black ＆ White. [[User:Ethan12|Ethan12]] 14:18, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
:Or... it's because they are the sequels to Black and White? [[User:Kookamooka|Kookamooka]] 18:51, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

== Images ==

I don't know if I'm doing this right, but... maybe these images can be used in the article?

<gallery>
File:B2W2 Prerelease theater.png|The theater?
File:B2W2 Prerelease VS Rival.png|The male player character and the rival's VS sprites
File:B2W2 Prerelease field.png|The player character meeting the rival
File:B2W2 Prerelease Akuroma.png|Akuroma...
File:B2W2 Prerelease Castelia Central Plaza.png|The player meets Akuroma in Castelia
File:B2W2 Prerelease floating town.png|The player meets Shizui
File:B2W2 Prerelease blocked road.png|The player and Akuroma in an unknown location
File:B2W2 Prerelease Homika Gym.png|Homika's gym
File:B2W2 Prerelease beach town Gym.png|Possibly outside Shizui's gym
File:B2W2 Prerelease beach cave.png|The player character, the rival and Shizui in a beach, near to the entrance of a cave
</gallery>

--[[User:PenblooeR|PenblooeR]] 19:56, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
That depends.did you get these pictures from a reliable source? [[User:Pokabu218|Pokabu218]] 14:56, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

[http://www.pokemon.co.jp/ex/b2w2/characters/ I think so.] --[[User:PenblooeR|PenblooeR]] 15:50, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

It looks like the official Japanese black2 and white2 so I would say those pictures are valid but I'm not sure so I would ask help from another editor.

[http://www.pokemon.co.jp/ex/b2w2/characters/ They're from the japanese Pokémon website.] What do you think? --[[User:PenblooeR|PenblooeR]] 19:45, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

== Starters ==

Are the starters for black and white 2 tepig oshawott and snivy because pokemon smash shows it.--[[User:Poke1|Poke1]] 01:59, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
:Obviously. [[Typhlosion (Pokémon)|★]][[User:Jo The Marten|Jo the Marten]][[Flygon (Pokémon)|★]] [[User_Talk:Jo The Marten|ಠ_ಠ]][[Cilan (anime)|♥]] 02:12, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

==battle animations?==

I guess constant battle animations are confirmed, due to the trailer? [[User:Pringles|Pringles]] 02:56, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
The Trainers seem to be animated too. ''Drakko'' 11:00, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

== English Cover ==

The english Cover is revealed: http://www.wog.ch/nas/cover_large/ds/ds_pokemonblack2.jpg --[[User:Altruis|Altruis]] 18:24, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
:Can you please provide the source of the picture? [[User:Pokemaster97|--Pokemaster]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|97]] 18:27, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Yes: http://www.wog.ch/index.cfm/details/product/28172-Pokemon-Schwarze-Edition-2 and http://www.softridge.ch/c1-/p4880/pokemon-schwarze-edition-2.html --[[User:Altruis|Altruis]] 18:29, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
:IMO it looks like placeholder boxart, because it doesn't match the Japanese artwork (which is usually does). There is also a watermark in the image. I would wait for a more official source to confirm it. [[User:Pokemaster97|--Pokemaster]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|97]] 18:40, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
I agree also because it is rating pending by ESRB but it shows a rating in the bottom right corner [[User:Pokabu218|Pokabu218]] 14:37, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
:That's not an ESRB rating. It's PEGI. --[[User:HoennMaster|Hoenn]][[User talk:HoennMaster|Master]] 16:13, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
Your right. I noticed that after I made the comment but did not have the time to fix it. [[User:Pokabu218|Pokabu218]] 17:44, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

== Unova Ice unconfirmed. ==

(Yeah, I know somebody already posted something like this...)
I don't think we should say that Unova is engulfed in ice, unless that is specifically confirmed. Maybe the ice is just there to cover up the other changes of Unova just for now, and I think if that much of Unova was covered in ice, there would only be like, three gyms. I think we should remove the part saying that part of Unova is covered in ice, because that is just speculation from the art, we have no proof that this is confirmed. [[User:Zarthga|Zarthga]] 07:23, 20 April 2012 (UTC)
:"I think if that much of Unova was covered in ice, there would only be like, three gyms." Castelia, Nimbasa, Driftveil, Mistralton and Opelucid aren't covered in ice. And there will be two new leaders, Shizui and Homika, totalizing seven citites with gyms that aren't covered in ice. Maybe the Icirrus gym will be still active, as it's an Ice-type gym... --[[User:PenblooeR|PenblooeR]] 15:50, 20 April 2012 (UTC)
::God, there are still people who believe that they really destroyed half of Unova? God... --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 17:39, 20 April 2012 (UTC)
:::"The Unova region ''appears'' to have changed greatly." (From the article; italics mine.) It does actually imply that it's inferred from the map, although I agree it's a little ambiguous. -- [[User:GoldenCelebi|Golden]][[User talk:GoldenCelebi|Celebi]] 17:50, 20 April 2012 (UTC)
::::Guys, this is turning into a speculation discussion. Unless you have undeniable proof one way or the other, please take this to the forums and stop the discussion here. [[Typhlosion (Pokémon)|★]][[User:Jo The Marten|Jo the Marten]][[Flygon (Pokémon)|★]] [[User_Talk:Jo The Marten|ಠ_ಠ]][[Cilan (anime)|♥]] 18:23, 20 April 2012 (UTC)
:::::Can I at least change it to say: "In this time, the Unova region appears to have changed greatly, being engulfed by a large amount of ice coming from the north east'', however, it was never confirmed that the this is true, as the ice may not actually exist, and was put on the Unova map to prevent too many spoilers.''" ? [[User:Zarthga|Zarthga]] 00:23, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
::::::No. [[Typhlosion (Pokémon)|★]][[User:Jo The Marten|Jo the Marten]][[Flygon (Pokémon)|★]] [[User_Talk:Jo The Marten|ಠ_ಠ]][[Cilan (anime)|♥]] 00:27, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
::::::: As it stands, the article reads as though Unova actually being engulfed in actual ice rather than just the map is a confirmed thing, which it isn't. Couldn't we reword that bit somehow so it doesn't sound like we know for sure? Actually, maybe it should just not be mentioned at all until we know what we're talking about. [[User:Yamiidenryuu|Yamiidenryuu]] 02:08, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
:::::::: ''In this time, the Unova region '''appears''' to have changed greatly, being engulfed by a large amount of ice coming from the north east'', the appears part signals the unconfirmed factor. The article is fine as is. [[User:Pokemaster97|--Pokemaster]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|97]] 02:13, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
It looks like it's confirmed: it says on the Japanese official site that the ice was caused two years after Black & White involving an 'accident' in the rural areas. ''Drakko'' 10:59, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
:It doesn't say it is actually covered in ice, simply that there was an accident in the rural areas. We will withhold adding that it is confirmed until we get undeniable proof either way. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 09:33, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
::The new trailer seems to indicate that the ''buildings'' are covered in ice, rather than the entire landmass being under a glacier like the art suggests. You may still be able to traverse the land, but I'm not sure if there will be people there [[User:NotSteve|'''Not''']][[User talk:NotSteve|''S'''''teve''' 0_o]] 16:41, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

== Pictures ==

Can this pic be used?

<gallery>
File:RivalBW2.png|rival from opening.
</gallery>

== Characters and Pokedex additions? ==

1) Already been mentions on this page, [http://www.pokemon.co.jp/ex/b2w2/characters/ BW Characters]. Menu bar on left, if it wasn't obvious.

2) [http://www.pokemon.co.jp/ex/b2w2/pokemon/pokemon01.html Pokedex with additional Pokemon] (?) <s>the pokedex looks pretty epic</s>

These should be added to the page somewhere; it's from the Japanese webpage. EDIT: By that I mean more better description of these on the article

[[User:Umbreon126|Umbreon126]] 04:03, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

:Until everything is revealed, then we add it.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 04:10, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

== Spring 2012 ==

Australia are getting these games before Japan? An Admin needs to change this[[User:05308|Diamond]] [[Lanturn (Pokémon)|Lanturn]] [[User talk:05308|CodeName: 05308]]
:Spring in Northern Hemisphere = Autumn in Southern Hemisphere. This has been explained multiple times, and should be common knowledge. [[Typhlosion (Pokémon)|★]][[User:Jo The Marten|Jo the Marten]][[Flygon (Pokémon)|★]] [[User_Talk:Jo The Marten|ಠ_ಠ]][[Cilan (anime)|♥]] 19:33, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
::Yes it should be. I could care less either way, but it should be put up so we can stop getting these questions. --[[User:HoennMaster|Hoenn]][[User talk:HoennMaster|Master]] 19:55, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
:::Your message doesn't make sense. We don't need to put up any sort of notes and disclaimers because people should already know the season differences the hemispheres have. Do we need to explain why the sky is blue in the anime? Not only that, but it is rude to our readers in the Southern Hemisphere. We don't put any sort of disclaimers that Autumn in the Northern Hemisphere means their Spring. They already know the difference. I'm not going to alter the information just because of someone else's ignorance. [[Typhlosion (Pokémon)|★]][[User:Jo The Marten|Jo the Marten]][[Flygon (Pokémon)|★]] [[User_Talk:Jo The Marten|ಠ_ಠ]][[Cilan (anime)|♥]] 20:02, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
::::How does it not make sense. It should and is common knowledge, but multiple people obviously don't get the difference. It's a waste to continually have this page cluttered with this issue. This is the third time (IIRC) this question has been asked on this page, the forums see it multiple times as well. It's annoying to see this question asked numerous times every week. Putting something up would stop people from asking about this and stop all the useless posts on this. --[[User:HoennMaster|Hoenn]][[User talk:HoennMaster|Master]] 20:39, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
:::::<nowiki>*</nowiki>bobs his head out of the shadows* Hi, I'm from the far lands, also known as the Southern Hemisphere. Things in here, despite what they might seem like, are the opposite to the Northern Hemisphere (at least in the weather department, no, food doesn't eat people here -that's only in Rand McNally-). Stuff such as S. H. related articles and release dates for this side of the world are kept in the Southern Hemisphere standards so that we don't get confused as to when either things get released or... well... mostly dates, Australia and New Zealand amongst few others speak English, so it's a bit unfair for them. This is something you learn in elementary school, if they don't know it, tough luck, they do now. So yeah, we are not changing the seasons for them to fit the Northern Hemisphere standards. Besides, once the games are released, we'll see the actual dates, so there will be no place for confusion. [[User:Masatoshi|Masatoshi]][[User_talk:Masatoshi|''talk'']] 20:42, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

== Helpful-ish ==

On {{tt|the pages|*can't be bothered to link to them*}} that Umbreon126 noted a couple of sections above, it says something about the 3DS in the bottom right. Not being able to read Japanese, I don't know what it says, but it ''could'' be helpful. Maybe. -- [[User:GoldenCelebi|Golden]][[User talk:GoldenCelebi|Celebi]] 16:04, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
:It just means that the game is compatible with the 3DS. [[Typhlosion (Pokémon)|★]][[User:Jo The Marten|Jo the Marten]][[Flygon (Pokémon)|★]] [[User_Talk:Jo The Marten|ಠ_ಠ]][[Cilan (anime)|♥]] 16:12, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

== Forest Minccino ==

At about 1:01 in the trailer, the player approaches what seems to be a Minccino in a forest. I don't have Black or White, so I don't know if this is like [[Peeko]] or not. Can somebody help me with this? [[User:Pringles|プリングルズ/品客薯片/ప్రింగిల్స్]] 20:09, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
:That event wasn't in the first BW at all, so we have no idea if it's like Peeko or what. [[User:Yamiidenryuu|Yamiidenryuu]] 14:18, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

==New Kami trio formes?==

Allegedly, this is the cover of next month's CoroCoro: [http://pokejungle.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/20120511-143126.jpg]

Note the bottom left ;)

[[User:Luigi-San|Luigi-San]] 05:41, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
:We are aware of that scan but it can easily be fake and it has been done a lot of times in the past as well. Besides, there is still some time in the ''actual'' CoroCoro scans to arrive. That is why the optimum choice would be to wait. Also, please do not link to other fansites since they are "not" completely reliable. Thank you, have a nice day ahead. ♫♪ [[User:Adyniz|'''エイデ''']][[User talk:Adyniz|'''ィニズ''']] ♪♫ 06:21, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

== English Release Date ==

On Amazon it says that the release date is December 31, 2012... Should someone add it? Or is it fake? [[User:Pringles|プリングルズ/品客薯片/ప్రింగిల్స్]] 00:28, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
:I'm thinking that is most likely a place holder date so they can accept pre-orders and such. [[User:Pokemaster97|--Pokemaster]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|97]] 00:38, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
::Definitely a placeholder. GameStop stores around me have October 2. --[[User:The Great Butler|The Great Butler]] 00:48, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

== Starters ==

Nope, there's no new starters. They're the same as Black and White, according to a Nintendo website. {{unsigned|AWild------Appeared}}
:[[Talk:Pokémon Black and White Versions 2#Starters|We know.]] -- [[User:GoldenCelebi|Golden]][[User talk:GoldenCelebi|Celebi]] 16:25, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

== New info - please update ==

As seen [http://www.pokemon.com/us/pokemon-video-games/pokemon-black-version-2-and-pokemon-white-version-2/ here] AR Searcher will be released as Pokémon Dream Radar. When Black Kyurem and White Kyurem have the cool glowing lights, it is known as "Overdrive Mode" --[[User:Dorsal Axe|Dorsal Axe]] 14:22, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
:By cool glowing lights do you mean the tube-like things that attach from their tails to their torsos? -[[User:NotSteve|'''Not''']][[User talk:NotSteve|''S'''''teve''' 0_o]] 16:57, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

== English Boxart ==

Here are the US boxarts for Pokémon Black 2 and White 2. It isn't the greatest quality, but I couldn't find better. [[User:Z1ggyZ00|Z1ggyZ00]] 21:38, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

[[File:Pokemon White 2 Boxart EN.png|200px]]
[[File:Pokemon Black 2 Boxart EN.png|200px]]

I've found some '''much''' bigger versions, which can be seen [http://i.imgur.com/KSbC3.jpg here] and [http://i.imgur.com/gooUp.jpg here]. But they'll need to be cropped before they can be used in the article. --[[User:Dorsal Axe|Dorsal Axe]] 10:07, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

== Minor thing ==

The word "mode" in Overdrive Mode should be capitalised. [http://www.pokemon.com/us/pokemon-video-games/pokemon-black-version-2-and-pokemon-white-version-2/ Proof is in the character art gallery here.] - [[User:Blazios|Blazios]] [[User Talk:Blazios|talk]] 22:22, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

== More Formes? WTF Bianca? ==

Well according to Serebii, there are new "Sacred Beast Formes" for Tornadus, Thunderus, and Landorus, Also with the new Pokemon Black 2 and White 2 animation out, it seems Bianca gives out the Starters in B2W2 and that Cheren is the first Gym Leader. {{unsigned|Alsuke}}
:1. Serebii isn't an official source, so don't bother referencing it here. 2. That name is merely a fan translation. Not official. 3. We already know everything else you just said. Check their articles. [[Typhlosion (Pokémon)|★]][[User:Jo The Marten|Jo the Marten]][[Flygon (Pokémon)|★]] [[User_Talk:Jo The Marten|ಠ_ಠ]][[Cilan (anime)|♥]] 04:04, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

== World Tournament Info ==

Just think it might be better to revise the current blurb on the World Tournament since it seems like more will be available. At present Sabrina isn't confirmed to be challengable, and the inclusion of Volkner, Lance, Cynthia and Steven opens it up to more regions. Maybe it's just better to say Gym Leaders and other Trainers/Champions from the other regions.
[[User:Clark Griswald|Clark Griswald]] 17:45, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

== Name to: Pokémon Black 2 and White 2 Versions ==

I think that would be a more accurate name, as the versions are more commonly (from what I've seen) referred to as Black 2 and White 2, not Black and White 2. Wikipedia too have referred to the games as Black 2 and White 2.
I propose a name change, anyone else agree? [[User:Kookamooka|Kookamooka]] 18:56, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
:[http://www.pokemon.com/us/pokemon-video-games/pokemon-black-version-2-and-pokemon-white-version-2/ The word Version comes before the 2.] This is an official link and it's really all that matters. Besides, Black 2 and White 2 already redirect here. - [[User:Blazios|Blazios]] [[User Talk:Blazios|talk]] 19:04, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
::Ah okay. Although they didn't redirect here, I got that covered. [[User:Kookamooka|Kookamooka]] 19:15, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

== Mistakes ==

"In this time, the Unova region appears to have changed greatly. The northeast and a small area of the far west are covered on the map, and it is not yet confirmed if the ice is simply covering changes that will be revealed later or if it is actually present in the region."

You managed to forgot to specify that they are ''covered in ice'', leaving that minor detail totally unsaid until the next part of the sentence, where it makes no sense.

Along with that... "Southwest" is all one word. The article switches from future tense (the games will) to present (the Pokédex is) to future again. If you're going to protect an article then write a good one. [[User:LordArceus|'''Lord''']][[User talk:LordArceus|'''Arc''']][[Special:Contributions/LordArceus|'''eus''']] 23:51, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
:I see your point, but that snippy last part you added was not necessary and a bit rude. We'll fix the article as soon as possible. [[User:Pokemaster97|--Pokemaster]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|97]] 23:56, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

== The ice might be... well, ice. ==

Has anyone taken a look at this video? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2SA4GyXb2U Near the end (around 3:25, when the protagonist is chasing the Shadow Triad), an entire city is encased in ice. It seems very likely that the ice on the map... is actually ice. Thoughts? [[User:Rickie-d|Rickie-d]] 17:41, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
:Yes, we are fully aware of this. But, it's just a trailer, and information is still very limited. For all we know, it could be unrelated to the ice on the map. So, until then, we'll just have to wait. [[User:Ataro|Ataro]] 17:46, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
::I'm pretty sure that the ice on the map doesn't entirely correspond to the actual ice. For all we know, there are changes behind the ice (not to mention that Shizui's Town and World Tournament also have to be located somewhere there). --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 18:32, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

== Gallery ==

Shouldn't you put the new pics for the starters in the gallery? I mean, it's new art, and we have the new Unova map. [[User:Pringles|''プリングルズ/'']][[User talk:Pringles|品客薯片/ప్రింగిల్స్]] 17:58, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

:And the new Kami trio formes, not to mention. And perhaps {{p|Meloetta}} (both formes) and {{p|Keldeo}}, due to them making their first official game appearances.[[User:Luigi-San|Luigi-San]] 22:32, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
::Personally, I feel the gallery is big enough as it is. I think rather than adding images to the gallery, we should be adding actual text. Because the gallery's pretty much going to be taken off once we can actually put content on the article anyway. Iirc, none of the other game articles have galleries. [[Typhlosion (Pokémon)|★]][[User:Jo The Marten|Jo the Marten]][[Flygon (Pokémon)|★]] [[User_Talk:Jo The Marten|ಠ_ಠ]][[Cilan (anime)|♥]] 22:42, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
:::K, thanks. [[User:Pringles|''プリングルズ/'']][[User talk:Pringles|品客薯片/ప్రింగిల్స్]] 00:04, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
::::Perhaps move the images to their own page? Something like {{redlink|Pokémon Black and White Versions 2/Gallery}}. [[User:Luigi-San|Luigi-San]] 21:29, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
:::::Or their own articles. Which they are. Please don't just create a link like that. It puts a page on the wanted pages list, when we don't really need that page. [[Typhlosion (Pokémon)|★]][[User:Jo The Marten|Jo the Marten]][[Flygon (Pokémon)|★]] [[User_Talk:Jo The Marten|ಠ_ಠ]][[Cilan (anime)|♥]] 21:44, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
::::::Honestly, I think only actual screenshots from the game should go in there. Artworks are not really in the game, so don't belong there. See what we did for [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Pok%C3%A9mon_Black_and_White_Versions&oldid=1194332#Images BW] and [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Pok%C3%A9mon_HeartGold_and_SoulSilver_Versions&oldid=1684773#Gallery HGSS]. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 11:38, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

== Tyop ==

I can't edit this because of the article protections, but you've put "fulling" instead of "fully" in the section about sprite animations. [[User:Yamiidenryuu|Yamiidenryuu]] 03:07, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
:Whoop. Thanks for pointing that out. [[Typhlosion (Pokémon)|★]][[User:Jo The Marten|Jo the Marten]][[Flygon (Pokémon)|★]] [[User_Talk:Jo The Marten|ಠ_ಠ]][[Cilan (anime)|♥]] 03:28, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

== Someone fix... ==

"Pokémon Dream Searcher app" in the opening of the article should be changed to "Pokémon Dream Radar". [[User:PkmnChmp5|PkmnChmp5]] 16:06, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
:And linked, too - I think there's an article for it now. -- [[User:GoldenCelebi|Golden]][[User talk:GoldenCelebi|Celebi]] 16:12, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
::I felt that since it's got its own section on the article, then it didn't need to be mentioned at the top. I also moved a few other things down to their own sections. [[Typhlosion (Pokémon)|★]][[User:Jo The Marten|Jo the Marten]][[Flygon (Pokémon)|★]] [[User_Talk:Jo The Marten|ಠ_ಠ]][[Cilan (anime)|♥]] 16:45, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

== Combatibility? ==

Normally I wouldn't say something about a protected article having a spelling error, but this happens to be the title of a subsection... would somebody kindly change Com'''b'''atibility to Com'''p'''atibility? '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 17:02, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
:Done. Thanks for pointing it out. [[User:Pokemaster97|--Pokemaster]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|97]] 17:09, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
::Thank you, kind sir. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 17:11, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
:::If the article's protected, feel free to point out any errors on the talk page. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 11:19, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

== Names ==

Can someone with edit access please pipe Black2, White2, and the ridiculous fan name for the rival? They aren't official names, so why are we not listing them on the page as "[[Black2|boy]]", "[[White2|girl]]", and "[[Hihihiroshi|rival]]"? [[User:Rickie-d|Rickie-d]] 07:28, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
:No. We're calling them as such because they're the closest we have to actual names for those characters. Hihihiroshi isn't just a fan name, it was a name given to him during a game play demonstration on Pokemon Smash. [[User:Ataro|Ataro]] 07:35, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
::To be fair, I think we should pipe Hihihiroshi, as it is not an official name at all and just the nickname chosen for him by Pokémon Smash in their game. However, Black2 and White2 are official. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 12:05, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

== Musicals ==

At the moment, it says that the Pokewood replaces Musicals. This is unconfirmed, and we have no reason to believe Musicals aren't in the game now (especially since the hall is visible on the map). This error must be fixed.

Tao trio

2012-06-02T01:42:04Z

Grei: /* Myths */

[[File:Tao trio anime.png|thumb|250px|The Tao trio in [[M15]]]]
The '''Tao trio''', sometimes called the '''energy trio''', is the collective term used to refer to the three powerful [[legendary Pokémon]] of the [[Unova]] Region: {{p|Reshiram}}, {{p|Zekrom}}, and {{p|Kyurem}}. According to Unova myths, the [[legendary trio]] was created during the war plaguing the region.

Much like members of other legendary trios, the three Pokémon have similar appearances. Each has {{t|Dragon}} as their primary type. Both Reshiram and Zekrom have a base stat total of 680 while Kyurem's is 660.

Each of the members of the trio has control of their own types and sides. Reshiram represents the concept of {{wp|yin and yang|yang}} and controls {{t|Fire}}, Zekrom represents the concept of {{wp|yin and yang|yin}} and controls {{t|Electric|Thunder}}, and Kyurem represents the concept of {{wp|Wuji (philosophy)|wuji}} (the absence of yin and yang) and controls {{t|Ice}}.

==Myths==
[[File:Reshiram Zekrom artwork.png|thumb|Artwork featuring Reshiram and Zekrom]]The mythologies of the trio are implied to be connected, despite having no true relation. The origins of Zekrom and Reshiram are told in legends, as they were once a single powerful Dragon Pokémon used by twin heroes in order to create the Unova region. But the brothers each sought something different in life — truth for the older brother and ideals for the younger — and they began to argue, then fight, over whose side was right. The single dragon, in response, split into two Pokémon: Reshiram, who sided with the older twin, and Zekrom, who sided with the younger twin.

The two dragons were equally matched as they battled and neither conquered the other. As a result, the brothers set aside their differences and equally declared that there was no right side, either. But the sons of the heroes resumed the fight, and Reshiram and Zekrom destroyed the region with their fire and lightning powers. They subsequently disappeared afterward.

At the beginning of {{v2|Black and White|s}}, one of them resides in the [[Dragonspiral Tower]], who is called upon by [[N]] to create his ideal world. The {{player}} is tasked with finding the other dragon in its corresponding stone ({{DL|List of key items in Generation V|Light Stone}} in Black and {{DL|List of key items in Generation V|Dark Stone}} in White) and revive it to resolve the history the twins began in the past.


Kyurem's origins are much different than those of the other two. The third dragon came down to the [[Pokémon world]] from an icy meteor and crashed into a place called [[Giant Chasm]]. An old legend in [[Lacunosa Town]] describing Kyurem claims that it would take people and Pokémon away from the town and eat them; this is why the town is now surrounded by a giant wall, and why none of its residents set food outside their homes after dark. 

==Similar movesets==
[[File:Reshiram Zekrom Fusion Flare Bolt artwork.png|thumb|250px|Zekrom and Reshiram using Fusion Bolt and Fusion Flare, one of their respective signature moves]]
[[File:Reshiram Zekrom Blue Flare Bolt Strike artwork.png|thumb|250px|Zekrom and Reshiram using Bolt Strike and Blue Flare, their other signature moves]]
[[File:Kyurem forms.png|thumb|250px|Kyurem's new forms]]

{| class="roundy" align="center" style="background: #{{dragon color}}; border: 5px solid #{{dragon color light}}"
|- align="center"
! style="background:#{{dragon color dark}}; {{roundytl|5px}}" | {{color2|{{dragon color light}}|Level|Lv.}}
| style="background:#{{fire color}}" | [[File:643.png]] {{pcolor|Reshiram|{{fire color dark}}}} {{typecolor|Dragon}}{{typecolor|Fire}}
| style="background:#{{electric color}}" | [[File:644.png]] {{pcolor|Zekrom|{{electric color dark}}}} {{typecolor|Dragon}}{{typecolor|Electric}}
| style="background:#{{ice color}}; {{roundytr|5px}}" | [[File:646.png]] {{pcolor|Kyurem|{{ice color dark}}}} {{typecolor|Dragon}}{{typecolor|Ice}}
|- align="center"
| rowspan="2" align="right" style="background:#{{dragon color dark}}" | {{color|{{dragon color light}}|Start}}
| colspan="1" style="background:#{{fire color light}}" |'''{{mcolor|Fire Fang|{{fire color dark}}}}'''
| style="background:#{{electric color light}}" | '''{{mcolor|Thunder Fang|{{electric color dark}}}}'''
| style="background:#{{ice color light}}" | '''{{mcolor|Icy Wind|{{ice color dark}}}}'''
|- align="center"
| colspan="3" style="background:#{{dragon color light}}" | {{mcolor|Dragon Rage|{{dragon color dark}}}}
|- align="center"
| align="right" style="background:#{{dragon color dark}}" | {{color|{{dragon color light}}|8}}
| colspan="3" style="background:#{{psychic color light}}" | ''{{mcolor|Imprison|{{psychic color dark}}}}''
|- align="center"
| align="right" style="background:#{{dragon color dark}}" | {{color|{{dragon color light}}|15}}
| colspan="3" style="background:#{{rock color light}}" | {{mcolor|AncientPower|{{rock color dark}}}}
|- align="center"
| align="right" style="background:#{{dragon color dark}}" | {{color|{{dragon color light}}|22}}
| colspan="1" style="background:#{{fire color light}}" | '''{{mcolor|Flamethrower|{{fire color dark}}}}'''
| style="background:#{{electric color light}}" | '''{{mcolor|Thunderbolt|{{electric color dark}}}}'''
| style="background:#{{ice color light}}" | '''{{mcolor|Ice Beam|{{ice color dark}}}}'''
|- align="center"
| align="right" style="background:#{{dragon color dark}}" | {{color|{{dragon color light}}|29}}
| colspan="3" style="background:#{{dragon color light}}" | '''{{mcolor|DragonBreath|{{dragon color dark}}}}'''
|- align="center"
| align="right" style="background:#{{dragon color dark}}" | {{color|{{dragon color light}}|36}}
| colspan="3" style="background:#{{normal color light}}" | {{mcolor|Slash|{{normal color dark}}}}
|- align="center"
| align="right" style="background:#{{dragon color dark}}" | {{color|{{dragon color light}}|43}}
| colspan="1" style="background:#{{psychic color light}}" | {{mcolor|Extrasensory|{{psychic color dark}}}}
| style="background:#{{psychic color light}}" | {{mcolor|Zen Headbutt|{{psychic color dark}}}}
| style="background:#{{normal color light}}" | ''{{mcolor|Scary Face|{{normal color dark}}}}''
|- align="center"
| align="right" style="background:#{{dragon color dark}}" | {{color|{{dragon color light}}|50}}
| style="background:#{{fire color light}}" | '''{{mcolor|Fusion Flare|{{fire color dark}}}}'''
| style="background:#{{electric color light}}" | '''{{mcolor|Fusion Bolt|{{electric color dark}}}}'''
| style="background:#{{ice color light}}" | '''{{mcolor|Glaciate|{{ice color dark}}}}'''
|- align="center"
| align="right" style="background:#{{dragon color dark}}" | {{color|{{dragon color light}}|54{{tt|*|57 for Kyurem}}}}
| colspan style="background:#{{dragon color light}}" | '''{{mcolor|Dragon Pulse|{{dragon color dark}}}}'''
| style="background:#{{dragon color light}}" | '''{{mcolor|Dragon Claw|{{dragon color dark}}}}'''
| style="background:#{{dragon color light}}" | '''{{mcolor|Dragon Pulse|{{dragon color dark}}}}'''
|- align="center"
| align="right" style="background:#{{dragon color dark}}" | {{color|{{dragon color light}}|64}}
| colspan="3" style="background:#{{psychic color light}}" | ''{{mcolor|Imprison|{{psychic color dark}}}}''
|- align="center"
| align="right" style="background:#{{dragon color dark}}" | {{color|{{dragon color light}}|71}}
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{dark color light}}" | {{mcolor|Crunch|{{dark color dark}}}}
| style="background:#{{normal color light}}" | {{mcolor|Endeavor|{{normal color dark}}}}
|- align="center"
| align="right" style="background:#{{dragon color dark}}" | {{color|{{dragon color light}}|78}}
| colspan="1" style="background:#{{fire color light}}" | '''{{mcolor|Fire Blast|{{fire color dark}}}}'''
| style="background:#{{electric color light}}" | '''{{mcolor|Thunder|{{electric color dark}}}}'''
| style="background:#{{ice color light}}" | '''{{mcolor|Blizzard|{{ice color dark}}}}'''
|- align="center"
| align="right" style="background:#{{dragon color dark}}" | {{color|{{dragon color light}}|85}}
| colspan="3" style="background:#{{dragon color light}}" | '''{{mcolor|Outrage|{{dragon color dark}}}}'''
|- align="center"
| align="right" style="background:#{{dragon color dark}}" | {{color|{{dragon color light}}|92}}
| colspan="3" style="background:#{{normal color light}}" | {{mcolor|Hyper Voice|{{normal color dark}}}}
|- align="center"
| align="right" style="background:#{{dragon color dark}}" | {{color|{{dragon color light}}|100}}
| style="background:#{{fire color light}}" | '''{{mcolor|Blue Flare|{{fire color dark}}}}'''
| style="background:#{{electric color light}}" | '''{{mcolor|Bolt Strike|{{electric color dark}}}}'''
|
|- align="center"
| colspan="4" style="background:#{{dragon color dark}}; color: #{{dragon color light}}; {{roundybottom|5px}}"| Moves in '''bold''' are {{color2|{{dragon color light}}|Same-type attack bonus|STAB}}. Moves in ''italics'' do no damage.
|}{{-}}

==Base stat comparison==
{{triostats|dragon|643|Reshiram|Fire|100|120|100|150|120|90|644|Zekrom|Electric|100|150|120|120|100|90|646|Kyurem|Ice|125|130|90|130|90|95}}

==Trivia==
* Like the [[legendary beasts]] in {{2v2|HeartGold|SoulSilver}}, each member of the trio shares battle music that is slightly remixed to match their secondary typing.
** Zekrom's theme has a crackling thunder effect and Reshiram's theme has a burning fire effect. While Kyurem's theme does not have a similar special effect, it has an extra slapped bass part playing in the background.
* The Tao Trio may refer to The {{wp|Three Pure Ones}}, due to their relations with Taoism.
* It is so far the only legendary trio with no known [[trio master]] as of yet.
* This legendary trio is the first since the [[legendary birds]] to return to the three types being {{t|Fire}}-, {{t|Electric}}-, and {{type|Ice}}, even though these types are secondary to the Dragon type.
** Each of the three has [[List of Pokémon with unique type combinations|type combinations unique to themselves]].
* The Tao Trio have their own battle transition. A few lights will gather in the center of the screen, and a swirl vortex will zoom in from the center.
* Reshiram, Zekrom, and Kyurem are occasionally known as the "Blazing White Yang", "Electrifying Black Yin", and "Frozen Boundary", respectively. This is a reference to the concept of Yin and Yang of Taoism.
* Reshiram, Zekrom, and Kyurem are the only legendary Pokémon to have more than one [[signature move]], along with {{p|Keldeo}}.
** Kyurem possesses the most signature moves out of all the members of the Tao Trio. It has access to Glaciate in its default state, {{m|Freeze Shock}} when it changes to Black Kyurem, and {{m|Ice Burn}} when it changes to White Kyurem.
* All three members learn the move Imprison twice: once at level 8 and again at level 64.

{{Legendary trios}}

[[de:Tao-Trio]]
[[it:Trio Tao]]
[[ja:伝説のドラゴン (イッシュ)]]

Talk:Capture Styler

2012-05-06T19:46:08Z

Grei:

Okay, I think there should be some anime pictures. [[Hajime]]'s Styler looks like a DS lite and I'm not sure about [[Solana]] so, I wanted to point out that the [[Pokédex]] article has pictures of all of the different iterations and compares them to various Nintendo handhelds. So I hope something similar can be implemented in this article. [[User:Angerman|Angerman]] 04:02, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

:Solana's WiiMote? Lunick's Lite? O.O '''[[User:Optimus35|It's the <sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]''13:09 3 Jun 2008'''''
::Hajime's styler is different in the game art aswell. Hitomi seems to be the one using the styler depicted in the picture.--[[User:Outrage DD|Outrage DD]] 22:47, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

==Field Moves==
I was wondering if we could consider HMs and moves such as Teleport, Dig, and Sweet Scent Field Moves in the main game. So in theory (if i'm right), we can start an article on Field Moves, BUT include an abridged version of the info in the article. [[User:Wobbuffet's Bro|Wobbuffet's Bro]] 17:16, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

== Different Stylers for different ranks in Almia? ==

[http://www.pokemonranger.com/ Official Site] According to that The green styler is called the School styler. Also the stler featured in the article is Almia's Area Ranger stylers. Top Rangers seem to use the wrist-band type styler that we saw Hajime/Kellyn use in the Ranger 2 episode. It doesn't say it outright, but the pictures show the difference. Click Explore Almia then Citizens of Almia--[[User:Outrage DD|Outrage DD]] 19:29, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
:That top ranger styler in the anime was called a ''"Vatonage Styler"''~[[User:Pokemaniac102|Ποκεμανιακα0β]] 15:00, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
::Wasn't it ''Battonage''? *[[User:Tc26|Tc]][[User talk:Tc26|26]]* 07:27, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
:::I'm sure it was ''Battonage'' Brock said it in either [[DP071|this episode]] or [[DP072|this episode]]. —[[User:Lord mada|Mada-sama]] ([[User talk:Lord mada|Talk to me!]])— 21:17, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
:I think that the school and the first red one work the same as the ones in the first game. The last one can power up your lines by charging. *[[User:Tc26|Tc]][[User talk:Tc26|26]]* 07:28, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

== Other Styler capabilities? ==

Just wondering, but are there any functions apart from text/phone that haven't been mentioned in this article? Maybe those that were only mentioned in the anime/manga? [[User:HikariTajiri|{{User}}]] 15:55, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

== question ==

should the stub template be removed? i don't think it's a stub.--[[User:Pokemongirl1|PG1 FTW!]] 13:02, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
:Done. '''►[[User:Kevzo8|Ҝə]][[Special:Contributions/Kevzo8|υz]][[User_talk:Kevzo8|ø8]]''' 13:10, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

== Capture Disc - Energy or Physical? ==

So, something has confused me for a while...

Nowhere is it actually stated whether the Capture Disc is a physical object, or if it's energy/a laser/whatever shaped into a top-like form. I'm incline to think that it's the former, but when Rangers use these discs in the anime, after a loop is created around the Pokemon and the Pokemon is successfully befriended, the disc completely disappears. If it was physical, wouldn't it return to the Ranger? We should update this page stating whether this top is a physical object or a ball of energy, or make a note about how it isn't clear or consistent between the games and the anime. [[User:Grei|Grei]] 19:45, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

Talk:Capture Styler

2012-05-06T19:45:18Z

Grei: /* Capture Disc - Energy or Physical? */ new section

Swoobat (Pokémon)

2012-04-29T19:29:38Z

Grei: /* Name origin */

{{PokémonPrevNext | prev=Woobat | next=Drilbur | prevnum=527 | nextnum=529 | type=Psychic | type2=Flying }}
{{PokémonInfobox|
name=Swoobat |
jname=ココロモリ|
tmname=Kokoromori |
size=154px|
art=BW|
pron=<sc>''{{{pron|ko-ko-ro-mo-ri}}}''</sc> |
species=Courting |
typen=2 |
type1=Psychic |
type2=Flying |
abilityn=2 |
ability1=Unaware|
ability2=Klutz|
abilityd=Simple |
ndex=528 |
udex=034 |
height-ftin=2'11" |
height-m=0.9 |
weight-lbs=23.1 |
weight-kg=10.5 |
egggroupn=2 |
egggroup1=Field|
egggroup2=Flying|
eggcycles=15|
expyield=149 |
lv100exp=1,000,000|
gendercode=127|
color=Blue|
catchrate=45|
evsp=2|
body=09 |
pokefordex=swoobat |
generation=5 |
footnotes=}}
'''Swoobat''' ([[List of Japanese Pokémon names|Japanese]]: '''ココロモリ''' ''Kokoromori'') is a dual-type {{2t|Psychic|Flying}} Pokémon.

It [[evolution|evolves]] from {{p|Woobat}} when [[level]]ed up with high [[friendship]].

==Biology==
===Physiology===
Swoobat is a primarily cobalt (teal in the anime), batlike Pokémon. Its pointed ears, with lighter-colored insides, are attached and thus resemble the triangular shape of a metronome. The large pink snouts of Swoobat sport a single, heart-shaped nostril, and the mouth is wide and toothed. A mane of white fur covers its neck and body. It black, batlike wings have 'thumbs', and its lower limbs are also black-colored. The lowermost segment of its body is blue, and its bare, pink, ratlike tail has prongs at the tip that may be described to form a heart shape. It also has three-toed feet extending from the underneath its mane.

====Gender differences====
None.

===Special abilities===
[[File:Robert Swoobat sleeping.png|thumb|left|220px|Swoobat sleeping]]
It can shoot ultrasonic sound waves from its nostrils. It can also release waves powerful enough to destroy boulders. During courtship, a male Swoobat uses these sound waves on itself, which pleases it and makes it happy. Anyone caught in these waves emitted by a courting male will experience a positive mood shift. It can use its forked tail to grasp and hang upside down from tree branches in order to sleep.

===Behavior===
Swoobat enjoy showering each other with their ultrasonic waves.

===Habitat===
They live in dark caves along with many other Swoobat.

===Diet===
{{main|Pokémon food}}

==In the anime==
[[File:Swoobat anime.png|thumb|250px|Swoobat in the anime]]
===Major appearances===
A group of Swoobat debuted in ''[[BW024|Emolga the Irresistible!]]''. They were angry with {{TP|Iris|Emolga}} for disturbing their peace and chased her, {{an|Iris}}, and {{TP|Iris|Axew}} down. However, [[Ash's Pikachu]] and Emolga were able to take them down.

[[Skyla]]'s Swoobat appeared in [[BW067]] where it battled {{an|Cilan}}'s {{TP|Cilan|Pansage}} and won with ease. However, it was defeated by [[Cilan's Crustle]] right afterwards. It reappeared in [[BW068]] where it was used in a battle against {{Ash}}. It easily defeated his {{AP|Krokorok}} but lost to his {{AP|Tranquill|Unfezant}}

===Minor appearances===
A Swoobat appeared in ''[[BW054|The Four Seasons of Sawsbuck!]]'' under the ownership of {{un|Robert}}.

===Pokédex entries===
{{Animedexheader|Unova}}
{{Animedexbody|BW024|Swoobat|Ash's Pokédex|Swoobat, the Courting Pokémon and the evolved form of {{p|Woobat}}. Swoobat can fire a variety of soundwaves from the holes of their noses, some powerful enough to break rocks.}}
{{Animedexbody|BW054|Swoobat|Ash's Pokédex|Swoobat, the Courting Pokémon and the evolved form of Woobat. Swoobat's nose emits many different kinds of soundwaves. }}
{{Animedexfooter/Pokémon|''Best Wishes''|Unova}}

==In the manga==

==In the TCG==
{{main|Swoobat (TCG)}}

==Game data==

===Pokédex entries===
{{Dex
|type=Psychic
|type2=Flying
|gen=5
|blackdex=It emits sound waves of various frequencies from its nose including some powerful enough to destroy rocks.
|whitedex=Anyone who comes into contact with the ultrasonic waves emitted by a courting male experiences a positive mood shift.
}}

===Game locations===
{{Availability|
type=Psychic|
type2=Flying|
gen=5 |
bwrarity=None|
bwarea=[[Evolution|Evolve]] {{p|Woobat}} |
}}

====In side games====
{{SidegameAvail
|type=psychic
|type2=flying
|rumble2=Cave: [[Misty Edgewater]], [[World Axle - B2F]]
}}

===Held items===

===Stats===
====Base stats====
{{BaseStats|
type=Psychic|
type2=Flying|
HP=67|
Attack=57|
Defense=55|
SpAtk=77|
SpDef=55|
Speed=114}}

===Type effectiveness===
{{Type effectiveness|
type1=Psychic|
type2=Flying|
Normal= 100 |
Fighting= 25 |
Flying= 100 |
Poison= 100 |
Ground= 0 |
Rock= 200 |
Bug= 100 |
Ghost= 200 |
Steel= 100 |

Fire= 100 |
Water= 100 |
Grass= 50 |
Electric= 200 |
Psychic= 50 |
Ice= 200 |
Dragon= 100 |
Dark= 200 |
notes=yes|
flying=yes|
newground=1
}}

===Learnset===
====By [[Level|leveling up]]====
{{learnlist/levelh|Swoobat|Psychic|Flying|5|5}}
{{learnlist/level5|Start|Confusion|Psychic|Special|50|100|25||'''}}
{{learnlist/level5|Start|Odor Sleuth|Normal|Status|—|—|40}}
{{learnlist/level5|Start|Gust|Flying|Special|40|100|35||'''}}
{{learnlist/level5|Start|Assurance|Dark|Physical|50|100|10}}
{{learnlist/level5|4|Odor Sleuth|Normal|Status|—|—|40}}
{{learnlist/level5|8|Gust|Flying|Special|40|100|35||'''}}
{{learnlist/level5|12|Assurance|Dark|Physical|50|100|10}}
{{learnlist/level5|15|Heart Stamp|Psychic|Physical|60|100|25||'''}}
{{learnlist/level5|19|Imprison|Psychic|Status|—|—|10}}
{{learnlist/level5|21|Air Cutter|Flying|Special|55|95|25||'''}}
{{learnlist/level5|25|Attract|Normal|Status|—|100|15}}
{{learnlist/level5|29|Amnesia|Psychic|Status|—|—|20}}
{{learnlist/level5|29|Calm Mind|Psychic|Status|—|—|20}}
{{learnlist/level5|32|Air Slash|Flying|Special|75|95|20||'''}}
{{learnlist/level5|36|Future Sight|Psychic|Special|100|100|10||'''}}
{{learnlist/level5|41|Psychic|Psychic|Special|90|100|10||'''}}
{{learnlist/level5|47|Endeavor|Normal|Physical|—|100|5}}
{{learnlist/levelf|Swoobat|Psychic|Flying|5|5}}

====By [[TM]]/[[HM]]====
{{learnlist/tmh|Swoobat|Psychic|Flying|5|5}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM03|Psyshock|Psychic|Special|80|100|10||'''}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM04|Calm Mind|Psychic|Status|—|—|20}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM06|Toxic|Poison|Status|—|90|10}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM10|Hidden Power|Normal|Special|—|100|15}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM12|Taunt|Dark|Status|—|100|20}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM15|Hyper Beam|Normal|Special|150|90|5}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM16|Light Screen|Psychic|Status|—|—|30}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM17|Protect|Normal|Status|—|—|10}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM18|Rain Dance|Water|Status|—|—|5}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM19|Telekinesis|Psychic|Status|—|—|15}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM20|Safeguard|Normal|Status|—|—|25}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM21|Frustration|Normal|Physical|—|100|20}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM27|Return|Normal|Physical|—|100|20}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM29|Psychic|Psychic|Special|90|100|10||'''}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM30|Shadow Ball|Ghost|Special|80|100|15}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM32|Double Team|Normal|Status|—|—|15}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM33|Reflect|Psychic|Status|—|—|20}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM40|Aerial Ace|Flying|Physical|60|—|20||'''}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM41|Torment|Dark|Status|—|100|15}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM42|Facade|Normal|Physical|70|100|20}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM44|Rest|Psychic|Status|—|—|10}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM45|Attract|Normal|Status|—|100|15}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM46|Thief|Dark|Physical|40|100|10}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM48|Round|Normal|Special|60|100|15}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM53|Energy Ball|Grass|Special|80|100|10}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM57|Charge Beam|Electric|Special|50|90|10}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM62|Acrobatics|Flying|Physical|55|100|15||'''}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM63|Embargo|Dark|Status|—|100|15}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM68|Giga Impact|Normal|Physical|150|90|5}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM70|Flash|Normal|Status|—|100|20}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM73|Thunder Wave|Electric|Status|—|100|20}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM74|Gyro Ball|Steel|Physical|—|100|5}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM77|Psych Up|Normal|Status|—|—|10}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM85|Dream Eater|Psychic|Special|100|100|15||'''}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM87|Swagger|Normal|Status|—|90|15}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM88|Pluck|Flying|Physical|60|100|20||'''}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM89|U-turn|Bug|Physical|70|100|20}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM90|Substitute|Normal|Status|—|—|10}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM92|Trick Room|Psychic|Status|—|—|5}}
{{learnlist/tm5|HM02|Fly|Flying|Physical|90|95|15||'''}}
{{learnlist/tmf|Swoobat|Psychic|Flying|5|5}}

====By {{pkmn|breeding}}====
{{learnlist/breedh|Swoobat|Psychic|Flying|5|5}}
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|176|Togetic}}{{MSP|209|Snubbull}}{{MSP|210|Granbull}}{{MSP|216|Teddiursa}}{{MSP|231|Phanpy}}{{MSP|300|Skitty}} {{MSP|417|Pachirisu}}{{MSP|427|Buneary}}{{MSP|428|Lopunny}}{{MSP|431|Glameow}}{{MSP|432|Purugly}}{{MSP|572|Minccino}} {{MSP|585|Deerling}}{{MSP|586|Sawsbuck}}{{MSP|613|Cubchoo}}|Charm|Normal|Status|—|100|20||}}
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|216|Teddiursa}}{{MSP|217|Ursaring}}{{MSP|303|Mawile}}{{MSP|570|Zorua}}|Fake Tears|Dark|Status|—|100|20||}}
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|032|Nidoran♂}}{{MSP|033|Nidorino}}|Flatter|Dark|Status|—|100|15||}}
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|032|Nidoran♂}}{{MSP|033|Nidorino}}{{MSP|058|Growlithe}}{{MSP|133|Eevee}}{{MSP|134|Vaporeon}}{{MSP|135|Jolteon}} {{MSP|136|Flareon}}{{MSP|196|Espeon}}{{MSP|197|Umbreon}}{{MSP|470|Leafeon}}{{MSP|471|Glaceon}}{{MSP|161|Sentret}} {{MSP|162|Furret}}{{MSP|506|Lillipup}}{{MSP|507|Herdier}}{{MSP|508|Stoutland}}{{MSP|572|Minccino}}{{MSP|573|Cinccino}}|Helping Hand|Normal|Status|—|—|20|||}}
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|083|Farfetch'd}}{{MSP|232|Donphan}}|Knock Off|Dark|Status|20|100|20||}}
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|016|Pidgey}}{{MSP|017|Pidgeotto}}{{MSP|018|Pidgeot}}{{MSP|021|Spearow}}{{MSP|022|Fearow}}{{MSP|163|Hoothoot}} {{MSP|164|Noctowl}}{{MSP|206|Dunsparce}}{{MSP|278|Wingull}}{{MSP|279|Pelipper}}{{MSP|441|Chatot}}{{MSP|519|Pidove}} {{MSP|520|Tranquill}}{{MSP|521|Unfezant}}{{MSP|580|Ducklett}}{{MSP|581|Swanna}}|Roost|Flying|Status|—|—|10|||}}
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|177|Natu}}{{MSP|178|Xatu}}{{MSP|517|Munna}}|Stored Power|Psychic|Special|20|100|10||||'''}}
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|041|Zubat}}{{MSP|042|Golbat}}{{MSP|169|Crobat}}{{MSP|142|Aerodactyl}}{{MSP|278|Wingull}}{{MSP|279|Pelipper}} {{MSP|293|Whismur}}{{MSP|294|Loudred}}{{MSP|295|Exploud}}|Supersonic|Normal|Status|—|55|20|||}}
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|163|Hoothoot}}{{MSP|164|Noctowl}}{{MSP|293|Whismur}}{{MSP|294|Loudred}}{{MSP|295|Exploud}}{{MSP|352|Kecleon}} {{MSP|441|Chatot}}{{MSP|517|Munna}}{{MSP|561|Sigilyph}}|Synchronoise|Psychic|Special|70|100|15||||'''}}{{learnlist/breedf|Swoobat|Psychic|Flying|5|5}}

====By [[Move tutor|tutoring]]====
{{learnlist/tutorh|Swoobat|psychic|flying|5|5}}
{{learnlist/tutor5null}}
{{learnlist/tutorf|Swoobat|psychic|flying|5|5}}

====By a prior [[evolution]]====
{{learnlist/prevoh|Swoobat|psychic|flying|5|5}}
{{Learnlist/prevo5null}}
{{learnlist/prevof|Swoobat|psychic|flying|5|5}}

====Special moves====

===={{Trading Card Game}}-only moves====

===Side game data===
{{Sidegame|
type=Psychic |
type2=Flying |
ndex=528 |
rumble2=yes|
rumble2attack=3 |
rumble2defense=2 |
rumble2speed=4 |
Pad2=Many Pokémon in the [[Crag Area]] are eager to be strong, but Swoobat think that everyone should be more relaxed. |
Park2strong= |
Park2weak= |
}}

===Evolution===
{{evobox
|family=Normal
|sprite1=527
|name1=Woobat
|type1-1=Psychic
|type2-1=Flying
|evotype1=Friendship
|sprite2=528
|name2=Swoobat
|type1-2=Psychic
|type2-2=Flying}}

===Sprites===
{{Sprite |
type=psychic |
type2=flying |
gen=5 |
gender=none |
name=Swoobat |
ndex=528 |
}}

==Trivia==
* Swoobat's evolutionary line has several similarities with {{p|Crobat}}'s. Both of them are based on bats and reach their respective final evolutionary form by [[friendship]].

===Origin===
Swoobat appears to based on a {{wp|Flying Fox}} and a {{wp|Heart-nosed Bat}}.

====Name origin====
Swoobat's name may possibly be a portmanteau of ''swoon'' (to be overcome by infatuation) and ''bat''. The "S" added to Woobat to form its evolution's name may also emulate the adding of "Ko" to Koromori, using an additional letter at the beginning to change the meaning. Kokoromori seems to come from 心 ''kokoro'' (heart) and コウモリ ''kōmori'' (bat).

==In other languages==
{| align="left" class="roundy" style="border: 3px solid #{{Flying color}}; background: #{{Psychic color}};"
|-
|
{| class="roundy" style="background: #{{Psychic color light}};"
|- align=center
! Language
! Name
! Name Origin
|- style="background:#FFF;"
| [[List of German Pokémon names|German]]
| Fletiamo
| From ''{{tt|Fledermaus|bat}}'' and ''{{tt|ti amo|Italian for 'I love you'}}''.
|- style="background:#FFF;"
| [[List of French Pokémon names|French]]
| Rhinolove
| From ''{{tt|Rhinolophe|bat species}}'' and ''Love''
|- style="background:#FFF;"
| [[List of Korean Pokémon names|Korean]]
| 맘박쥐 ''Mambakjwi''
|
|- style="background:#FFF;"
| [[List of Chinese Pokémon names|Chinese]] ({{tt|Mandarin|Taiwan and mainland China}})
| 心蝙蝠 ''Xīnbiānfú''
| From {{tt|心 ''xīn''|heart}} and {{tt|蝙蝠 ''biānfú''|bat}}.
|}
|-
|}
 


==External links==
{{PokémonPrevNextFoot | prev=Woobat | next=Drilbur | prevnum=527 | nextnum=529 | type=Psychic | type2=Flying }}
{{-}}
{{Project Pokédex notice}}

[[de:Fletiamo]]
[[es:Swoobat]]
[[fr:Rhinolove]]
[[it:Swoobat]]
[[ja:ココロモリ]]
[[pl:Swoobat]]

Oshawott (Pokémon)

2012-04-23T22:29:05Z

Grei: /* Name origin */

{{PokémonPrevNextHead | species=Oshawott | prev=Emboar | next=Dewott | type=Water | prevnum=500 | nextnum=502 }}
{{PokémonInfobox|
name=Oshawott|
jname=ミジュマル |
tmname=Mijumaru |
size=145px |
art=BW |
pron=<sc>''o-sha-wot''</sc> |
species=Sea Otter |
typen=1 |
type1=Water |
type2= |
abilityn=1 |
ability1=Torrent |
abilityd=Shell Armor |
ndex=501 |
udex=007 |
height-ftin=1'08" |
height-m=0.5 |
weight-lbs=13 |
weight-kg=5.9 |
egggroupn=1 |
egggroup1=Field|
egggroup2= |
eggcycles=20|
expyield=28 |
lv100exp=1,059,860|
gendercode=31|
color=Blue|
catchrate=45|
evsa=1|
body=06 |
pokefordex=oshawott |
generation=5 |
footnotes=}}
'''Oshawott''' ([[List of Japanese Pokémon names|Japanese]]: '''ミジュマル''' ''Mijumaru'') is a {{type2|Water}} {{obp|Pokémon|species}}.

It [[Evolution|evolves]] into {{p|Dewott}} starting at [[level]] 17, which evolves into {{p|Samurott}} starting at level 36.

Along with {{p|Snivy}} and {{p|Tepig}}, Oshawott is one of three [[starter Pokémon]] of [[Unova]] available at the beginning of {{game|Black and White|s}}.

==Biology==
===Physiology===
Oshawott is a bipedal sea otter-like Pokémon, primarily light blue, dark blue, and white in coloration. Oshawott has a rounded, spherical white head, with small, triangular dark-blue ears to the sides. Oshawott's eyes are large, dark, and ovoid in shape; its dark-orange nose is shaped like an oval on its side. Oshawott also possesses speckles to the sides of its face, most likely meant to be a stylistic implication of short whiskers in the common manner of cartoon canines, and light blue bubble-esque features composing a "collar" around its neck. Oshawott's torso is light blue, and decorated with a pale yellow seashell feature in the center. Made out of {{wp|keratin}}, this appendage, called a "[[scalchop]]", can be removed and used in various ways; mainly, as a weapon. Its small, digit-less and somewhat rounded arms are white in coloration, with its feet—having, unlike its forearms, discernible digits—colored dark blue. Oshawott also possesses a slightly plank-shaped dark blue tail and a pair of fangs unseen until it opens its mouth.

====Gender differences====
None.

===Special abilities===
It can fight skillfully by detaching the [[scalchop]] on its belly. The scalchop can be used for a variety of different things, such as a acting like a sword, shield, and boomerang.

===Behavior===
If Oshawott is attacked, it will fight back using its scalchop without any hesitation. When eating, Oshawott uses its forepaws to move food to its mouth. (rather than going down on all fours to eat it)

===Habitat===
Oshawott mainly live in water but may come to land.

===Diet===
{{main|Pokémon food}}

==In the anime==
[[File:Ash Oshawott.png|thumb|right|250px|Oshawott in the anime]]
===Major appearances===
====[[Ash's Oshawott]]====
Ash's Oshawott first appears in ''[[BW001|In The Shadow of Zekrom!]]'', under the ownership of [[Professor Juniper]]. He begins to admire Ash and decides to leave the lab and follow him wherever he goes. He then saves {{Ash}} and {{an|Iris}} from [[Team Rocket]] in ''[[BW002|Enter Iris and Axew!]]'' and reappears again in ''[[BW003|A Sandile Gusher of Change!]]'' where he officially joins Ash's [[party]].

===Minor appearances===
In ''[[BW019|A Connoisseur's Revenge!]]'' multiple Trainers' Oshawott were seen at a [[Poké Mart]].

Later, a flashback of [[Burgundy]]'s {{p|Dewott}} as an Oshawott was shown after it had been beaten by [[Cilan's Pansage]].

===Pokédex entries===
{{Animedexheader|Unova}}
{{Animedexbody|BW003|Oshawott|Ash's Pokédex|Oshawott, the Sea Otter Pokémon. Oshawott {{m|Razor Shell|attacks}} and defends using the [[scalchop]] that can be removed from its stomach.}}
{{Animedexfooter/Pokémon|''Best Wishes''|Unova}}

==In the manga==
[[File:Unova Starters Adventures.png|thumb|right|The Unova starter Pokémon]]
===In the Pokémon Adventures manga===
Oshawott, along with Tepig and Snivy appear when {{adv|Black}} accidentally drops his box containing the Pokémon. When [[Tep]] and Snivy begin fighting, Oshawott attempts to break them up, only to get hurt in the process. After getting annoyed, it attacks them and sends Tep running off. It was later chosen by {{adv|Bianca}} because she thought it was cute.

===In the Be a Master!! Pokémon BW manga===
Oshawott is [[Bianca]]'s [[starter Pokémon]] in the [[Be a Master!! Pokémon BW]] manga series.

==In the TCG==
{{main|Oshawott (TCG)}}

==Game data==

===Pokédex entries===
{{Dex
|type=water
|gen=5
|blackdex=It fights using the [[scalchop]] on its stomach. In response to an attack, it retaliates immediately by slashing.
|whitedex=The scalchop on its stomach is made from the same element as claws. It detaches the scalchop for use as a blade.
}}

===Game locations===
{{Availability|
type=water|
gen=5 |
bwrarity=One|
bwarea=[[Starter Pokémon]] from [[Professor Juniper]] in [[Nuvema Town]] |
}}

====In side games====
{{SidegameAvail
|type=water
|rumble2=Beach: [[Seabreeze Trail]], [[Echo Valley]], [[Rugged Flats]]
}}

===Held items===

===Stats===
====Base stats====
{{Base stats
|HP=55
|Attack=55
|Defense=45
|SpAtk=63
|SpDef=45
|Speed=45
|type=Water
}}

===Type effectiveness===
{{Type effectiveness|
type1=water|
Normal= 100 |
Fighting=100 |
Flying= 100 |
Poison= 100 |
Ground= 100 |
Rock= 100 |
Bug= 100 |
Ghost= 100 |
Steel= 50 |

Fire= 50 |
Water= 50 |
Grass= 200 |
Electric=200 |
Psychic= 100 |
Ice= 50 |
Dragon= 100 |
Dark= 100 }}

===Learnset===
====By [[Level|leveling up]]====
{{learnlist/levelh|Oshawott|Water|Water|5|5}}
{{learnlist/level5|Start|Tackle|Normal|Physical|50|100|35}}
{{learnlist/level5|5|Tail Whip|Normal|Status|—|100|30}}
{{learnlist/level5|7|Water Gun|Water|Special|40|100|25||'''}}
{{learnlist/level5|11|Water Sport|Water|Status|—|—|15}}
{{learnlist/level5|13|Focus Energy|Normal|Status|—|—|30}}
{{learnlist/level5|17|Razor Shell|Water|Physical|75|95|10||'''}}
{{learnlist/level5|19|Fury Cutter|Bug|Physical|20|95|20}}
{{learnlist/level5|23|Water Pulse|Water|Special|60|100|20||'''}}
{{learnlist/level5|25|Revenge|Fighting|Physical|60|100|10}}
{{learnlist/level5|29|Aqua Jet|Water|Physical|40|100|20||'''}}
{{learnlist/level5|31|Encore|Normal|Status|—|100|5}}
{{learnlist/level5|35|Aqua Tail|Water|Physical|90|90|10||'''}}
{{learnlist/level5|37|Retaliate|Normal|Physical|70|100|5}}
{{learnlist/level5|41|Swords Dance|Normal|Status|—|—|30}}
{{learnlist/level5|43|Hydro Pump|Water|Special|120|80|5||'''}}
{{learnlist/levelf|Oshawott|Water|Water|5|5}}

====By [[TM]]/[[HM]]====
{{learnlist/tmh|Oshawott|Water|Water|5|5}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM06|Toxic|Poison|Status|—|90|10}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM07|Hail|Ice|Status|—|—|10}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM10|Hidden Power|Normal|Special|—|100|15}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM12|Taunt|Dark|Status|—|100|20}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM13|Ice Beam|Ice|Special|95|100|10}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM14|Blizzard|Ice|Special|120|70|5}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM17|Protect|Normal|Status|—|—|10}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM18|Rain Dance|Water|Status|—|—|5}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM21|Frustration|Normal|Physical|—|100|20}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM27|Return|Normal|Physical|—|100|20}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM28|Dig|Ground|Physical|80|100|10}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM32|Double Team|Normal|Status|—|—|15}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM40|Aerial Ace|Flying|Physical|60|—|20}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM42|Facade|Normal|Physical|70|100|20}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM44|Rest|Psychic|Status|—|—|10}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM45|Attract|Normal|Status|—|100|15}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM48|Round|Normal|Special|60|100|15}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM54|False Swipe|Normal|Physical|40|100|40}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM55|Scald|Water|Special|80|100|15||'''}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM56|Fling|Dark|Physical|—|100|10}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM67|Retaliate|Normal|Physical|70|100|5}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM75|Swords Dance|Normal|Status|—|—|30}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM81|X-Scissor|Bug|Physical|80|100|15}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM86|Grass Knot|Grass|Special|—|100|20}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM87|Swagger|Normal|Status|—|90|15}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM90|Substitute|Normal|Status|—|—|10}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM94|Rock Smash|Fighting|Physical|40|100|15}}
{{learnlist/tm5|HM01|Cut|Normal|Physical|50|95|30}}
{{learnlist/tm5|HM03|Surf|Water|Special|95|100|15||'''}}
{{learnlist/tm5|HM05|Waterfall|Water|Physical|80|100|15||'''}}
{{learnlist/tm5|HM06|Dive|Water|Physical|80|100|10||'''}}
{{learnlist/tmf|Oshawott|Water|Water|5|5}}

====By {{pkmn|breeding}}====
{{learnlist/breedh|Oshawott|Water|Water|5|5}}
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|083|Farfetch'd}}{{MSP|527|Woobat}}{{MSP|528|Swoobat}}|Air Slash|Flying|Special|75|95|20||}}
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|019|Rattata}}{{MSP|020|Raticate}}{{MSP|052|Meowth}}{{MSP|053|Persian}}{{MSP|056|Mankey}}{{MSP|057|Primeape}} {{MSP|197|Umbreon}}{{MSP|203|Girafarig}}{{MSP|232|Donphan}}{{MSP|261|Poochyena}}{{MSP|262|Mightyena}}{{MSP|461|Weavile}} {{MSP|498|Tepig}}{{MSP|499|Pignite}}{{MSP|500|Emboar}}{{MSP|509|Purrloin}}{{MSP|510|Liepard}}{{MSP|527|Woobat}} {{MSP|528|Swoobat}}{{MSP|551|Sandile}}{{MSP|552|Krokorok}}{{MSP|553|Krookodile}}|Assurance|Dark|Physical|50|100|10||}}
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|086|Seel}}{{MSP|087|Dewgong}}{{MSP|320|Wailmer}}{{MSP|321|Wailord}}{{MSP|393|Piplup}}{{MSP|394|Prinplup}} {{MSP|395|Empoleon}}{{MSP|515|Panpour}}{{MSP|613|Cubchoo}}{{MSP|614|Beartic}}|Brine|Water|Special|65|100|10||||'''}}
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|300|Skitty}}{{MSP|327|Spinda}}|Copycat|Normal|Status|—|—|20||||}}
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|335|Zangoose}}{{MSP|359|Absol}}{{MSP|448|Lucario}}{{MSP|504|Patrat}}{{MSP|505|Watchog}}{{MSP|619|Mienfoo}} {{MSP|620|Mienshao}}|Detect|Fighting|Status|—|—|5||}}
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|051|Dugtrio}}{{MSP|052|Meowth}}{{MSP|053|Persian}}{{MSP|083|Farfetch'd}}{{MSP|336|Seviper}}{{MSP|359|Absol}} {{MSP|434|Stunky}}{{MSP|435|Skuntank}}{{MSP|461|Weavile}}{{MSP|509|Purrloin}}{{MSP|510|Liepard}}{{MSP|571|Zoroark}}|Night Slash|Dark|Physical|70|100|15||}}
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|023|Ekans}}{{MSP|024|Arbok}}{{MSP|052|Meowth}}{{MSP|053|Persian}}{{MSP|054|Psyduck}}{{MSP|055|Golduck}} {{MSP|056|Mankey}}{{MSP|057|Primeape}}{{MSP|190|Aipom}}{{MSP|424|Ambipom}}{{MSP|197|Umbreon}}{{MSP|206|Dunsparce}} {{MSP|215|Sneasel}}{{MSP|461|Weavile}}{{MSP|336|Seviper}}{{MSP|352|Kecleon}}{{MSP|434|Stunky}}{{MSP|435|Skuntank}}|Screech|Normal|Status|—|85|40||}}
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|133|Eevee}}|Trump Card|Normal|Special|—|—|5||||}}{{learnlist/breedf|Oshawott|Water|Water|5|5}}

====By [[Move tutor|tutoring]]====
{{learnlist/tutorh|Oshawott|water|water|5|5}}
{{learnlist/tutor5|Water Pledge|Water|Special|50|100|10||'''|yes}}
{{learnlist/tutorf|Oshawott|water|water|5|5}}

====Special moves====

===={{Trading Card Game}}-only moves====

===Side game data===
{{Sidegame|
type=Water |
ndex=501 |
rumble2=yes|
rumble2attack=2|
rumble2defense=1|
rumble2speed=3|
}}

===Evolution===
{{evobox
|family=Normal
|sprite1=501
|name1=Oshawott
|type1-1=Water
|evotype1=Level
|level1=17
|sprite2=502
|name2=Dewott
|type1-2=Water
|evotype2=Level
|level2=36
|sprite3=503
|name3=Samurott
|type1-3=Water}}

===Sprites===
{{Sprite |
type=water |
gen=5 |
gender=none |
name=Oshawott |
ndex=501 |
}}

==Trivia==
[[File:PokéSun May09 10.png|thumb|The three silhouettes on [[Pokémon Sunday]]]]
* Oshawott and its fellow {{2v2|Black|White}} starters were first revealed as silhouettes on the May 9, 2010 episode of [[Pokémon Sunday]]. They were later revealed in full in the June 2010 issue of [[CoroCoro]].
* Oshawott is the only {{type|Water}} [[starter Pokémon]] to be based on a mammal.
* Oshawott is the only [[starter Pokémon]] whose name begins with a vowel, discounting {{p|Eevee}}.
* Oshawott and its evolutions are the only {{type|Water}} starter Pokémon that are not in any of the Water [[egg group]]s, being exclusive to the {{egg3|Field}}.
* Oshawott has the lowest base stat total of all {{type|Water}} starter Pokémon.
* Oshawott, along with {{p|Snivy}} and {{p|Tepig}}, has the lowest [[List of Pokémon by effort value yield|base experience yield]], with a base of 28.
* [[Ken Sugimori]] said that Oshawott and its evolutions were the hardest for the team to design during production, as conceptualizing its evolutions were difficult. They eventually settled on a samurai theme and making its final form a sea lion after a trip to an aquarium.{{fact}}
* Oshawott, along with the other two {{2v2|Black|White}} [[starter Pokémon]], are the only starter Pokémon to evolve at an odd number: 17.
* Oshawott's evolutionary line and {{p|Turtwig}}'s evolutionary line are the only [[starter Pokémon]] evolutionary lines that share Hidden Abilities.
* Oshawott is the only Pokémon introduced in Generation V whose name starts with O.

===Origin===
Oshawott is based on a {{wp|sea otter}} pup and {{wp|samurai}}<ref>http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ds/interview/irbj/sp/index5.html (dead link)</ref>. The way that Oshawott's [[Scalchop]] rests on its belly resembles the way otters look when cracking open shells to eat. This Scalchop also holds similarities with {{wp|Japanese war fan}}s, which were often used by samurai for defensive purposes.

====Name origin====
Oshawott possibly derives from "ocean", "shell", "water" and "otter." It might make reference to the {{wp|Canada|Canadian}} city of {{wp|Oshawa}}, as Canada contains many protected areas in which sea otters reside. It could also make reference to {{wp|George Ohsawa}}, a famed dietitian born into a poor samurai family during the {{wp|Meiji Restoration}} of Japan. Its Japanese name may be derived from 水 ''mizu'' meaning water, or 未熟 ''mijuku'' meaning naive or immature, and 丸 ''maru'' meaning round. "-maru" is also a common suffix in male Japanese names.

==In other languages==
{| align="left" class="roundy" style="border: 3px solid #{{Water color dark}}; background: #{{Water color}};"
|-
|
{| class="roundy" style="background: #{{Water color light}};"
|- align=center
! Language
! Name
! Name Origin
|- style="background:#FFF;"
| [[List of German Pokémon names|German]]
| Ottaro
| From ''otter'' and possibly 太郎 ''tarō'', a common Japanese name.
|- style="background:#FFF;"
| [[List of French Pokémon names|French]]
| Moustillon
| From ''{{tt|moussaillon|ship's boy}}'' and Latin ''{{wp|Mustelidae}}'' (scientific family of the otter).
|- style="background:#FFF;"
| [[List of Korean Pokémon names|Korean]]
| 수댕이 ''Sudaeng'i''
| From {{tt|수달 ''sudal|otter}}''.
|- style="background:#FFF;"
| [[List of Chinese Pokémon names|Chinese]] ({{tt|Mandarin|Taiwan and mainland China}})
| 水水獺 / 水水獭 ''Shuǐshuǐtà''
| From {{tt|水 ''shuǐ''|water}} and {{tt|水獺 ''shuǐtà''|otter}}.
|}
|-
|}
 

==Related articles==
* [[Ash's Oshawott]]

==Notes==
<references />

==External links==
*{{wp|Oshawott, Dewott, and Samurott|Article on Wikipedia}}

{{Starter Pokémon|water}}
{{-}}
{{PokémonPrevNextFoot | prev=Emboar | next=Dewott | type=Water | prevnum=500 | nextnum=502 }}
{{-}}
{{Project Pokédex notice}}

[[Category:Starter Pokémon|501]]
[[Category:Anime starter Pokémon|Oshawott]]

[[de:Ottaro]]
[[es:Oshawott]]
[[fr:Moustillon]]
[[it:Oshawott]]
[[ja:ミジュマル]]
[[pl:Oshawott]]
[[pt:Oshawott (pokémon)]]

Oshawott (Pokémon)

2012-04-07T17:26:26Z

Grei: /* Name origin */

{{PokémonPrevNextHead | species=Oshawott | prev=Emboar | next=Dewott | type=Water | prevnum=500 | nextnum=502 }}
{{PokémonInfobox|
name=Oshawott|
jname=ミジュマル |
tmname=Mijumaru |
size=145px |
art=BW |
pron=<sc>''o-sha-wot''</sc> |
species=Sea Otter |
typen=1 |
type1=Water |
type2= |
abilityn=1 |
ability1=Torrent |
abilityd=Shell Armor |
ndex=501 |
udex=007 |
height-ftin=1'08" |
height-m=0.5 |
weight-lbs=13 |
weight-kg=5.9 |
egggroupn=1 |
egggroup1=Field|
egggroup2= |
eggcycles=20|
expyield=28 |
lv100exp=1,059,860|
gendercode=31|
color=Blue|
catchrate=45|
evsa=1|
body=06 |
pokefordex=oshawott |
generation=5 |
footnotes=}}
'''Oshawott''' ([[List of Japanese Pokémon names|Japanese]]: '''ミジュマル''' ''Mijumaru'') is a {{type2|Water}} {{obp|Pokémon|species}}.

It [[Evolution|evolves]] into {{p|Dewott}} starting at [[level]] 17, which evolves into {{p|Samurott}} starting at level 36.

Along with {{p|Snivy}} and {{p|Tepig}}, Oshawott is one of three [[starter Pokémon]] of [[Unova]] available at the beginning of {{game|Black and White|s}}.

==Biology==
===Physiology===
Oshawott is a bipedal sea otter-like Pokémon, primarily light blue, dark blue, and white in coloration. Oshawott has a rounded, spherical white head, with small, triangular dark-blue ears to the sides. Oshawott's eyes are large, dark, and ovoid in shape; its dark-orange nose is shaped like an oval on its side. Oshawott also possesses speckles to the sides of its face, most likely meant to be a stylistic implication of short whiskers in the common manner of cartoon canines, and light blue bubble-esque features composing a "collar" around its neck. Oshawott's torso is light blue, and decorated with a pale yellow seashell feature in the center. Made out of {{wp|keratin}}, this appendage, called a "[[scalchop]]", can be removed and used in various ways; mainly, as a weapon. Its small, digit-less and somewhat rounded arms are white in coloration, with its feet—having, unlike its forearms, discernible digits—colored dark blue. Oshawott also possesses a slightly plank-shaped dark blue tail and a pair of fangs unseen until it opens its mouth.

====Gender differences====
None.

===Special abilities===
It can fight skillfully by detaching the [[scalchop]] on its belly. The scalchop can be used for a variety of different things, such as a acting like a sword, shield, and boomerang.

===Behavior===
If Oshawott is attacked, it will fight back using its scalchop without any hesitation. When eating, Oshawott uses its forepaws to move food to its mouth. (rather than going down on all fours to eat it)

===Habitat===
Oshawott mainly live in water but may come to land.

===Diet===
{{main|Pokémon food}}

==In the anime==
[[File:Ash Oshawott.png|thumb|right|250px|Oshawott in the anime]]
===Major appearances===
====[[Ash's Oshawott]]====
Ash's Oshawott first appears in ''[[BW001|In The Shadow of Zekrom!]]'', under the ownership of [[Professor Juniper]]. He begins to admire Ash and decides to leave the lab and follow him wherever he goes. He then saves {{Ash}} and {{an|Iris}} from [[Team Rocket]] in ''[[BW002|Enter Iris and Axew!]]'' and reappears again in ''[[BW003|A Sandile Gusher of Change!]]'' where he officially joins Ash's [[party]].

===Minor appearances===
In ''[[BW019|A Connoisseur's Revenge!]]'' multiple Trainers' Oshawott were seen at a [[Poké Mart]].

Later, a flashback of [[Burgundy]]'s {{p|Dewott}} as an Oshawott was shown after it had been beaten by [[Cilan's Pansage]].

===Pokédex entries===
{{Animedexheader|Unova}}
{{Animedexbody|BW003|Oshawott|Ash's Pokédex|Oshawott, the Sea Otter Pokémon. Oshawott {{m|Razor Shell|attacks}} and defends using the [[scalchop]] that can be removed from its stomach.}}
{{Animedexfooter/Pokémon|''Best Wishes''|Unova}}

==In the manga==
[[File:Unova Starters Adventures.png|thumb|right|The Unova Starters]]
===In the Pokémon Adventures manga===
Oshawott, along with Tepig and Snivy appear when {{adv|Black}} accidentally drops his box containing the Pokémon. When [[Tep]] and Snivy begin fighting, Oshawott attempts to break them up, only to get hurt in the process. After getting annoyed, it attacks them and sends Tep running off. It was later chosen by {{adv|Bianca}} because she thought it was cute.

===In the Be a Master!! Pokémon BW manga===
Oshawott is [[Bianca]]'s [[starter Pokémon]] in the [[Be a Master!! Pokémon BW]] manga series.

==In the TCG==
{{main|Oshawott (TCG)}}

==Game data==

===Pokédex entries===
{{Dex
|type=water
|gen=5
|blackdex=It fights using the [[scalchop]] on its stomach. In response to an attack, it retaliates immediately by slashing.
|whitedex=The scalchop on its stomach is made from the same element as claws. It detaches the scalchop for use as a blade.
}}

===Game locations===
{{Availability|
type=water|
gen=5 |
bwrarity=One|
bwarea=[[Starter Pokémon]] from [[Professor Juniper]] in [[Nuvema Town]] |
}}

====In side games====
{{SidegameAvail
|type=water
|rumble2=Beach: [[Seabreeze Trail]], [[Echo Valley]], [[Rugged Flats]]
}}

===Held items===

===Stats===
====Base stats====
{{Base stats
|HP=55
|Attack=55
|Defense=45
|SpAtk=63
|SpDef=45
|Speed=45
|type=Water
}}

===Type effectiveness===
{{Type effectiveness|
type1=water|
Normal= 100 |
Fighting=100 |
Flying= 100 |
Poison= 100 |
Ground= 100 |
Rock= 100 |
Bug= 100 |
Ghost= 100 |
Steel= 50 |

Fire= 50 |
Water= 50 |
Grass= 200 |
Electric=200 |
Psychic= 100 |
Ice= 50 |
Dragon= 100 |
Dark= 100 }}

===Learnset===
====By [[Level|leveling up]]====
{{learnlist/levelh|Oshawott|Water|Water|5|5}}
{{learnlist/level5|Start|Tackle|Normal|Physical|50|100|35}}
{{learnlist/level5|5|Tail Whip|Normal|Status|—|100|30}}
{{learnlist/level5|7|Water Gun|Water|Special|40|100|25||'''}}
{{learnlist/level5|11|Water Sport|Water|Status|—|—|15}}
{{learnlist/level5|13|Focus Energy|Normal|Status|—|—|30}}
{{learnlist/level5|17|Razor Shell|Water|Physical|75|95|10||'''}}
{{learnlist/level5|19|Fury Cutter|Bug|Physical|20|95|20}}
{{learnlist/level5|23|Water Pulse|Water|Special|60|100|20||'''}}
{{learnlist/level5|25|Revenge|Fighting|Physical|60|100|10}}
{{learnlist/level5|29|Aqua Jet|Water|Physical|40|100|20||'''}}
{{learnlist/level5|31|Encore|Normal|Status|—|100|5}}
{{learnlist/level5|35|Aqua Tail|Water|Physical|90|90|10||'''}}
{{learnlist/level5|37|Retaliate|Normal|Physical|70|100|5}}
{{learnlist/level5|41|Swords Dance|Normal|Status|—|—|30}}
{{learnlist/level5|43|Hydro Pump|Water|Special|120|80|5||'''}}
{{learnlist/levelf|Oshawott|Water|Water|5|5}}

====By [[TM]]/[[HM]]====
{{learnlist/tmh|Oshawott|Water|Water|5|5}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM06|Toxic|Poison|Status|—|90|10}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM07|Hail|Ice|Status|—|—|10}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM10|Hidden Power|Normal|Special|—|100|15}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM12|Taunt|Dark|Status|—|100|20}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM13|Ice Beam|Ice|Special|95|100|10}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM14|Blizzard|Ice|Special|120|70|5}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM17|Protect|Normal|Status|—|—|10}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM18|Rain Dance|Water|Status|—|—|5}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM21|Frustration|Normal|Physical|—|100|20}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM27|Return|Normal|Physical|—|100|20}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM28|Dig|Ground|Physical|80|100|10}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM32|Double Team|Normal|Status|—|—|15}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM40|Aerial Ace|Flying|Physical|60|—|20}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM42|Facade|Normal|Physical|70|100|20}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM44|Rest|Psychic|Status|—|—|10}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM45|Attract|Normal|Status|—|100|15}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM48|Round|Normal|Special|60|100|15}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM54|False Swipe|Normal|Physical|40|100|40}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM55|Scald|Water|Special|80|100|15||'''}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM56|Fling|Dark|Physical|—|100|10}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM67|Retaliate|Normal|Physical|70|100|5}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM75|Swords Dance|Normal|Status|—|—|30}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM81|X-Scissor|Bug|Physical|80|100|15}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM86|Grass Knot|Grass|Special|—|100|20}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM87|Swagger|Normal|Status|—|90|15}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM90|Substitute|Normal|Status|—|—|10}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM94|Rock Smash|Fighting|Physical|40|100|15}}
{{learnlist/tm5|HM01|Cut|Normal|Physical|50|95|30}}
{{learnlist/tm5|HM03|Surf|Water|Special|95|100|15||'''}}
{{learnlist/tm5|HM05|Waterfall|Water|Physical|80|100|15||'''}}
{{learnlist/tm5|HM06|Dive|Water|Physical|80|100|10||'''}}
{{learnlist/tmf|Oshawott|Water|Water|5|5}}

====By {{pkmn|breeding}}====
{{learnlist/breedh|Oshawott|Water|Water|5|5}}
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|083|Farfetch'd}}{{MSP|527|Woobat}}{{MSP|528|Swoobat}}|Air Slash|Flying|Special|75|95|20||}}
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|019|Rattata}}{{MSP|020|Raticate}}{{MSP|052|Meowth}}{{MSP|053|Persian}}{{MSP|056|Mankey}}{{MSP|057|Primeape}} {{MSP|197|Umbreon}}{{MSP|203|Girafarig}}{{MSP|232|Donphan}}{{MSP|261|Poochyena}}{{MSP|262|Mightyena}}{{MSP|461|Weavile}} {{MSP|498|Tepig}}{{MSP|499|Pignite}}{{MSP|500|Emboar}}{{MSP|509|Purrloin}}{{MSP|510|Liepard}}{{MSP|527|Woobat}} {{MSP|528|Swoobat}}{{MSP|551|Sandile}}{{MSP|552|Krokorok}}{{MSP|553|Krookodile}}|Assurance|Dark|Physical|50|100|10||}}
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|086|Seel}}{{MSP|087|Dewgong}}{{MSP|320|Wailmer}}{{MSP|321|Wailord}}{{MSP|393|Piplup}}{{MSP|394|Prinplup}} {{MSP|395|Empoleon}}{{MSP|515|Panpour}}{{MSP|613|Cubchoo}}{{MSP|614|Beartic}}|Brine|Water|Special|65|100|10||||'''}}
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|300|Skitty}}{{MSP|327|Spinda}}|Copycat|Normal|Status|—|—|20||||}}
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|335|Zangoose}}{{MSP|359|Absol}}{{MSP|448|Lucario}}{{MSP|504|Patrat}}{{MSP|505|Watchog}}{{MSP|619|Mienfoo}} {{MSP|620|Mienshao}}|Detect|Fighting|Status|—|—|5||}}
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|051|Dugtrio}}{{MSP|052|Meowth}}{{MSP|053|Persian}}{{MSP|083|Farfetch'd}}{{MSP|336|Seviper}}{{MSP|359|Absol}} {{MSP|434|Stunky}}{{MSP|435|Skuntank}}{{MSP|461|Weavile}}{{MSP|509|Purrloin}}{{MSP|510|Liepard}}{{MSP|571|Zoroark}}|Night Slash|Dark|Physical|70|100|15||}}
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|023|Ekans}}{{MSP|024|Arbok}}{{MSP|052|Meowth}}{{MSP|053|Persian}}{{MSP|054|Psyduck}}{{MSP|055|Golduck}} {{MSP|056|Mankey}}{{MSP|057|Primeape}}{{MSP|190|Aipom}}{{MSP|424|Ambipom}}{{MSP|197|Umbreon}}{{MSP|206|Dunsparce}} {{MSP|215|Sneasel}}{{MSP|461|Weavile}}{{MSP|336|Seviper}}{{MSP|352|Kecleon}}{{MSP|434|Stunky}}{{MSP|435|Skuntank}}|Screech|Normal|Status|—|85|40||}}
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|133|Eevee}}|Trump Card|Normal|Special|—|—|5||||}}{{learnlist/breedf|Oshawott|Water|Water|5|5}}

====By [[Move tutor|tutoring]]====
{{learnlist/tutorh|Oshawott|water|water|5|5}}
{{learnlist/tutor5|Water Pledge|Water|Special|50|100|10||'''|yes}}
{{learnlist/tutorf|Oshawott|water|water|5|5}}

====Special moves====

===={{Trading Card Game}}-only moves====

===Side game data===
{{Sidegame|
type=Water |
ndex=501 |
rumble2=yes|
rumble2attack=2|
rumble2defense=1|
rumble2speed=3|
}}

===Evolution===
{{evobox
|family=Normal
|sprite1=501
|name1=Oshawott
|type1-1=Water
|evotype1=Level
|level1=17
|sprite2=502
|name2=Dewott
|type1-2=Water
|evotype2=Level
|level2=36
|sprite3=503
|name3=Samurott
|type1-3=Water}}

===Sprites===
{{Sprite |
type=water |
gen=5 |
gender=none |
name=Oshawott |
ndex=501 |
}}

==Trivia==
[[File:PokéSun May09 10.png|thumb|The three silhouettes on [[Pokémon Sunday]]]]
* Oshawott and its fellow {{2v2|Black|White}} starters were first revealed as silhouettes on the May 9, 2010 episode of [[Pokémon Sunday]]. They were later revealed in full in the June 2010 issue of [[CoroCoro]].
* Oshawott is the only {{type|Water}} [[starter Pokémon]] to be based on a mammal.
* Oshawott is the only [[starter Pokémon]] whose name begins with a vowel, discounting {{p|Eevee}}.
* Oshawott and its evolutions are the only {{type|Water}} starter Pokémon that are not in any of the Water [[egg group]]s, being exclusive to the {{egg3|Field}}.
* Oshawott has the lowest base stat total of all {{type|Water}} starter Pokémon.
* Oshawott, along with {{p|Snivy}} and {{p|Tepig}}, has the lowest [[List of Pokémon by effort value yield|base experience yield]], with a base of 28.
* [[Ken Sugimori]] said that Oshawott and its evolutions were the hardest for the team to design during production, as conceptualizing its evolutions were difficult. They eventually settled on a samurai theme and making its final form a sea lion after a trip to an aquarium.{{fact}}
* Oshawott, along with the other two {{2v2|Black|White}} [[starter Pokémon]], are the only starter Pokémon to evolve at an odd number: 17.
* Oshawott's evolutionary line and {{p|Turtwig}}'s evolutionary line are the only [[starter Pokémon]] evolutionary lines that share Hidden Abilities.
* Oshawott is the only Pokémon introduced in Generation V whose name starts with O.

===Origin===
Oshawott is based on a {{wp|sea otter}} pup and {{wp|samurai}}<ref>http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ds/interview/irbj/sp/index5.html (dead link)</ref>. The way that Oshawott's shell rests on its belly resembles the way otters look when cracking open shells to eat. This shell also holds similarities with {{wp|Japanese war fan}}s, which were often used by samurai for defensive purposes.

====Name origin====
Oshawott possibly derives from "ocean", "shell", "water" and "otter." It might make reference to the {{wp|Canada|Canadian}} city of {{wp|Oshawa}}, as Canada contains many protected areas in which sea otters reside. It could also make reference to {{wp|George Ohsawa}}, a famed dietitian born into a poor samurai family during the {{wp|Meiji Restoration}} of Japan. Its Japanese name may be derived from 水 ''mizu'' meaning water, or 未熟 ''mijuku'' meaning naive or immature, and 丸 ''maru'' meaning round. "-maru" is also a common suffix in male Japanese names. The syllable "mi" in its name, meaning "three" or "third", may imply a lineage within the evolutionary line with Mijumaru being third in line.

==In other languages==
{| align="left" class="roundy" style="border: 3px solid #{{Water color dark}}; background: #{{Water color}};"
|-
|
{| class="roundy" style="background: #{{Water color light}};"
|- align=center
! Language
! Name
! Name Origin
|- style="background:#FFF;"
| [[List of German Pokémon names|German]]
| Ottaro
| From ''otter'' and possibly 太郎 ''tarō'', a common Japanese name.
|- style="background:#FFF;"
| [[List of French Pokémon names|French]]
| Moustillon
| From ''{{tt|moussaillon|ship's boy}}'' and Latin ''{{wp|Mustelidae}}'' (scientific family of the otter).
|- style="background:#FFF;"
| [[List of Korean Pokémon names|Korean]]
| 수댕이 ''Sudaeng'i''
| From {{tt|수달 ''sudal|otter}}''.
|- style="background:#FFF;"
| [[List of Chinese Pokémon names|Chinese]] ({{tt|Mandarin|Taiwan and mainland China}})
| 水水獺 / 水水獭 ''Shuǐshuǐtà''
| From {{tt|水 ''shuǐ''|water}} and {{tt|水獺 ''shuǐtà''|otter}}.
|}
|-
|}
 

==Related articles==
* [[Ash's Oshawott]]

==Notes==
<references />

==External links==
*{{wp|Oshawott, Dewott, and Samurott|Article on Wikipedia}}

{{Starter Pokémon|water}}
{{-}}
{{PokémonPrevNextFoot | prev=Emboar | next=Dewott | type=Water | prevnum=500 | nextnum=502 }}
{{-}}
{{Project Pokédex notice}}

[[Category:Starter Pokémon|501]]
[[Category:Anime starter Pokémon|Oshawott]]

[[de:Ottaro]]
[[es:Oshawott]]
[[fr:Moustillon]]
[[it:Oshawott]]
[[ja:ミジュマル]]
[[pl:Oshawott]]
[[pt:Oshawott (pokémon)]]

Oshawott (Pokémon)

2012-04-07T17:23:24Z

Grei: /* Origin */

{{PokémonPrevNextHead | species=Oshawott | prev=Emboar | next=Dewott | type=Water | prevnum=500 | nextnum=502 }}
{{PokémonInfobox|
name=Oshawott|
jname=ミジュマル |
tmname=Mijumaru |
size=145px |
art=BW |
pron=<sc>''o-sha-wot''</sc> |
species=Sea Otter |
typen=1 |
type1=Water |
type2= |
abilityn=1 |
ability1=Torrent |
abilityd=Shell Armor |
ndex=501 |
udex=007 |
height-ftin=1'08" |
height-m=0.5 |
weight-lbs=13 |
weight-kg=5.9 |
egggroupn=1 |
egggroup1=Field|
egggroup2= |
eggcycles=20|
expyield=28 |
lv100exp=1,059,860|
gendercode=31|
color=Blue|
catchrate=45|
evsa=1|
body=06 |
pokefordex=oshawott |
generation=5 |
footnotes=}}
'''Oshawott''' ([[List of Japanese Pokémon names|Japanese]]: '''ミジュマル''' ''Mijumaru'') is a {{type2|Water}} {{obp|Pokémon|species}}.

It [[Evolution|evolves]] into {{p|Dewott}} starting at [[level]] 17, which evolves into {{p|Samurott}} starting at level 36.

Along with {{p|Snivy}} and {{p|Tepig}}, Oshawott is one of three [[starter Pokémon]] of [[Unova]] available at the beginning of {{game|Black and White|s}}.

==Biology==
===Physiology===
Oshawott is a bipedal sea otter-like Pokémon, primarily light blue, dark blue, and white in coloration. Oshawott has a rounded, spherical white head, with small, triangular dark-blue ears to the sides. Oshawott's eyes are large, dark, and ovoid in shape; its dark-orange nose is shaped like an oval on its side. Oshawott also possesses speckles to the sides of its face, most likely meant to be a stylistic implication of short whiskers in the common manner of cartoon canines, and light blue bubble-esque features composing a "collar" around its neck. Oshawott's torso is light blue, and decorated with a pale yellow seashell feature in the center. Made out of {{wp|keratin}}, this appendage, called a "[[scalchop]]", can be removed and used in various ways; mainly, as a weapon. Its small, digit-less and somewhat rounded arms are white in coloration, with its feet—having, unlike its forearms, discernible digits—colored dark blue. Oshawott also possesses a slightly plank-shaped dark blue tail and a pair of fangs unseen until it opens its mouth.

====Gender differences====
None.

===Special abilities===
It can fight skillfully by detaching the [[scalchop]] on its belly. The scalchop can be used for a variety of different things, such as a acting like a sword, shield, and boomerang.

===Behavior===
If Oshawott is attacked, it will fight back using its scalchop without any hesitation. When eating, Oshawott uses its forepaws to move food to its mouth. (rather than going down on all fours to eat it)

===Habitat===
Oshawott mainly live in water but may come to land.

===Diet===
{{main|Pokémon food}}

==In the anime==
[[File:Ash Oshawott.png|thumb|right|250px|Oshawott in the anime]]
===Major appearances===
====[[Ash's Oshawott]]====
Ash's Oshawott first appears in ''[[BW001|In The Shadow of Zekrom!]]'', under the ownership of [[Professor Juniper]]. He begins to admire Ash and decides to leave the lab and follow him wherever he goes. He then saves {{Ash}} and {{an|Iris}} from [[Team Rocket]] in ''[[BW002|Enter Iris and Axew!]]'' and reappears again in ''[[BW003|A Sandile Gusher of Change!]]'' where he officially joins Ash's [[party]].

===Minor appearances===
In ''[[BW019|A Connoisseur's Revenge!]]'' multiple Trainers' Oshawott were seen at a [[Poké Mart]].

Later, a flashback of [[Burgundy]]'s {{p|Dewott}} as an Oshawott was shown after it had been beaten by [[Cilan's Pansage]].

===Pokédex entries===
{{Animedexheader|Unova}}
{{Animedexbody|BW003|Oshawott|Ash's Pokédex|Oshawott, the Sea Otter Pokémon. Oshawott {{m|Razor Shell|attacks}} and defends using the [[scalchop]] that can be removed from its stomach.}}
{{Animedexfooter/Pokémon|''Best Wishes''|Unova}}

==In the manga==
[[File:Unova Starters Adventures.png|thumb|right|The Unova Starters]]
===In the Pokémon Adventures manga===
Oshawott, along with Tepig and Snivy appear when {{adv|Black}} accidentally drops his box containing the Pokémon. When [[Tep]] and Snivy begin fighting, Oshawott attempts to break them up, only to get hurt in the process. After getting annoyed, it attacks them and sends Tep running off. It was later chosen by {{adv|Bianca}} because she thought it was cute.

===In the Be a Master!! Pokémon BW manga===
Oshawott is [[Bianca]]'s [[starter Pokémon]] in the [[Be a Master!! Pokémon BW]] manga series.

==In the TCG==
{{main|Oshawott (TCG)}}

==Game data==

===Pokédex entries===
{{Dex
|type=water
|gen=5
|blackdex=It fights using the [[scalchop]] on its stomach. In response to an attack, it retaliates immediately by slashing.
|whitedex=The scalchop on its stomach is made from the same element as claws. It detaches the scalchop for use as a blade.
}}

===Game locations===
{{Availability|
type=water|
gen=5 |
bwrarity=One|
bwarea=[[Starter Pokémon]] from [[Professor Juniper]] in [[Nuvema Town]] |
}}

====In side games====
{{SidegameAvail
|type=water
|rumble2=Beach: [[Seabreeze Trail]], [[Echo Valley]], [[Rugged Flats]]
}}

===Held items===

===Stats===
====Base stats====
{{Base stats
|HP=55
|Attack=55
|Defense=45
|SpAtk=63
|SpDef=45
|Speed=45
|type=Water
}}

===Type effectiveness===
{{Type effectiveness|
type1=water|
Normal= 100 |
Fighting=100 |
Flying= 100 |
Poison= 100 |
Ground= 100 |
Rock= 100 |
Bug= 100 |
Ghost= 100 |
Steel= 50 |

Fire= 50 |
Water= 50 |
Grass= 200 |
Electric=200 |
Psychic= 100 |
Ice= 50 |
Dragon= 100 |
Dark= 100 }}

===Learnset===
====By [[Level|leveling up]]====
{{learnlist/levelh|Oshawott|Water|Water|5|5}}
{{learnlist/level5|Start|Tackle|Normal|Physical|50|100|35}}
{{learnlist/level5|5|Tail Whip|Normal|Status|—|100|30}}
{{learnlist/level5|7|Water Gun|Water|Special|40|100|25||'''}}
{{learnlist/level5|11|Water Sport|Water|Status|—|—|15}}
{{learnlist/level5|13|Focus Energy|Normal|Status|—|—|30}}
{{learnlist/level5|17|Razor Shell|Water|Physical|75|95|10||'''}}
{{learnlist/level5|19|Fury Cutter|Bug|Physical|20|95|20}}
{{learnlist/level5|23|Water Pulse|Water|Special|60|100|20||'''}}
{{learnlist/level5|25|Revenge|Fighting|Physical|60|100|10}}
{{learnlist/level5|29|Aqua Jet|Water|Physical|40|100|20||'''}}
{{learnlist/level5|31|Encore|Normal|Status|—|100|5}}
{{learnlist/level5|35|Aqua Tail|Water|Physical|90|90|10||'''}}
{{learnlist/level5|37|Retaliate|Normal|Physical|70|100|5}}
{{learnlist/level5|41|Swords Dance|Normal|Status|—|—|30}}
{{learnlist/level5|43|Hydro Pump|Water|Special|120|80|5||'''}}
{{learnlist/levelf|Oshawott|Water|Water|5|5}}

====By [[TM]]/[[HM]]====
{{learnlist/tmh|Oshawott|Water|Water|5|5}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM06|Toxic|Poison|Status|—|90|10}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM07|Hail|Ice|Status|—|—|10}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM10|Hidden Power|Normal|Special|—|100|15}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM12|Taunt|Dark|Status|—|100|20}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM13|Ice Beam|Ice|Special|95|100|10}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM14|Blizzard|Ice|Special|120|70|5}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM17|Protect|Normal|Status|—|—|10}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM18|Rain Dance|Water|Status|—|—|5}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM21|Frustration|Normal|Physical|—|100|20}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM27|Return|Normal|Physical|—|100|20}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM28|Dig|Ground|Physical|80|100|10}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM32|Double Team|Normal|Status|—|—|15}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM40|Aerial Ace|Flying|Physical|60|—|20}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM42|Facade|Normal|Physical|70|100|20}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM44|Rest|Psychic|Status|—|—|10}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM45|Attract|Normal|Status|—|100|15}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM48|Round|Normal|Special|60|100|15}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM54|False Swipe|Normal|Physical|40|100|40}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM55|Scald|Water|Special|80|100|15||'''}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM56|Fling|Dark|Physical|—|100|10}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM67|Retaliate|Normal|Physical|70|100|5}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM75|Swords Dance|Normal|Status|—|—|30}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM81|X-Scissor|Bug|Physical|80|100|15}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM86|Grass Knot|Grass|Special|—|100|20}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM87|Swagger|Normal|Status|—|90|15}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM90|Substitute|Normal|Status|—|—|10}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM94|Rock Smash|Fighting|Physical|40|100|15}}
{{learnlist/tm5|HM01|Cut|Normal|Physical|50|95|30}}
{{learnlist/tm5|HM03|Surf|Water|Special|95|100|15||'''}}
{{learnlist/tm5|HM05|Waterfall|Water|Physical|80|100|15||'''}}
{{learnlist/tm5|HM06|Dive|Water|Physical|80|100|10||'''}}
{{learnlist/tmf|Oshawott|Water|Water|5|5}}

====By {{pkmn|breeding}}====
{{learnlist/breedh|Oshawott|Water|Water|5|5}}
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|083|Farfetch'd}}{{MSP|527|Woobat}}{{MSP|528|Swoobat}}|Air Slash|Flying|Special|75|95|20||}}
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|019|Rattata}}{{MSP|020|Raticate}}{{MSP|052|Meowth}}{{MSP|053|Persian}}{{MSP|056|Mankey}}{{MSP|057|Primeape}} {{MSP|197|Umbreon}}{{MSP|203|Girafarig}}{{MSP|232|Donphan}}{{MSP|261|Poochyena}}{{MSP|262|Mightyena}}{{MSP|461|Weavile}} {{MSP|498|Tepig}}{{MSP|499|Pignite}}{{MSP|500|Emboar}}{{MSP|509|Purrloin}}{{MSP|510|Liepard}}{{MSP|527|Woobat}} {{MSP|528|Swoobat}}{{MSP|551|Sandile}}{{MSP|552|Krokorok}}{{MSP|553|Krookodile}}|Assurance|Dark|Physical|50|100|10||}}
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|086|Seel}}{{MSP|087|Dewgong}}{{MSP|320|Wailmer}}{{MSP|321|Wailord}}{{MSP|393|Piplup}}{{MSP|394|Prinplup}} {{MSP|395|Empoleon}}{{MSP|515|Panpour}}{{MSP|613|Cubchoo}}{{MSP|614|Beartic}}|Brine|Water|Special|65|100|10||||'''}}
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|300|Skitty}}{{MSP|327|Spinda}}|Copycat|Normal|Status|—|—|20||||}}
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|335|Zangoose}}{{MSP|359|Absol}}{{MSP|448|Lucario}}{{MSP|504|Patrat}}{{MSP|505|Watchog}}{{MSP|619|Mienfoo}} {{MSP|620|Mienshao}}|Detect|Fighting|Status|—|—|5||}}
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|051|Dugtrio}}{{MSP|052|Meowth}}{{MSP|053|Persian}}{{MSP|083|Farfetch'd}}{{MSP|336|Seviper}}{{MSP|359|Absol}} {{MSP|434|Stunky}}{{MSP|435|Skuntank}}{{MSP|461|Weavile}}{{MSP|509|Purrloin}}{{MSP|510|Liepard}}{{MSP|571|Zoroark}}|Night Slash|Dark|Physical|70|100|15||}}
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|023|Ekans}}{{MSP|024|Arbok}}{{MSP|052|Meowth}}{{MSP|053|Persian}}{{MSP|054|Psyduck}}{{MSP|055|Golduck}} {{MSP|056|Mankey}}{{MSP|057|Primeape}}{{MSP|190|Aipom}}{{MSP|424|Ambipom}}{{MSP|197|Umbreon}}{{MSP|206|Dunsparce}} {{MSP|215|Sneasel}}{{MSP|461|Weavile}}{{MSP|336|Seviper}}{{MSP|352|Kecleon}}{{MSP|434|Stunky}}{{MSP|435|Skuntank}}|Screech|Normal|Status|—|85|40||}}
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|133|Eevee}}|Trump Card|Normal|Special|—|—|5||||}}{{learnlist/breedf|Oshawott|Water|Water|5|5}}

====By [[Move tutor|tutoring]]====
{{learnlist/tutorh|Oshawott|water|water|5|5}}
{{learnlist/tutor5|Water Pledge|Water|Special|50|100|10||'''|yes}}
{{learnlist/tutorf|Oshawott|water|water|5|5}}

====Special moves====

===={{Trading Card Game}}-only moves====

===Side game data===
{{Sidegame|
type=Water |
ndex=501 |
rumble2=yes|
rumble2attack=2|
rumble2defense=1|
rumble2speed=3|
}}

===Evolution===
{{evobox
|family=Normal
|sprite1=501
|name1=Oshawott
|type1-1=Water
|evotype1=Level
|level1=17
|sprite2=502
|name2=Dewott
|type1-2=Water
|evotype2=Level
|level2=36
|sprite3=503
|name3=Samurott
|type1-3=Water}}

===Sprites===
{{Sprite |
type=water |
gen=5 |
gender=none |
name=Oshawott |
ndex=501 |
}}

==Trivia==
[[File:PokéSun May09 10.png|thumb|The three silhouettes on [[Pokémon Sunday]]]]
* Oshawott and its fellow {{2v2|Black|White}} starters were first revealed as silhouettes on the May 9, 2010 episode of [[Pokémon Sunday]]. They were later revealed in full in the June 2010 issue of [[CoroCoro]].
* Oshawott is the only {{type|Water}} [[starter Pokémon]] to be based on a mammal.
* Oshawott is the only [[starter Pokémon]] whose name begins with a vowel, discounting {{p|Eevee}}.
* Oshawott and its evolutions are the only {{type|Water}} starter Pokémon that are not in any of the Water [[egg group]]s, being exclusive to the {{egg3|Field}}.
* Oshawott has the lowest base stat total of all {{type|Water}} starter Pokémon.
* Oshawott, along with {{p|Snivy}} and {{p|Tepig}}, has the lowest [[List of Pokémon by effort value yield|base experience yield]], with a base of 28.
* [[Ken Sugimori]] said that Oshawott and its evolutions were the hardest for the team to design during production, as conceptualizing its evolutions were difficult. They eventually settled on a samurai theme and making its final form a sea lion after a trip to an aquarium.{{fact}}
* Oshawott, along with the other two {{2v2|Black|White}} [[starter Pokémon]], are the only starter Pokémon to evolve at an odd number: 17.
* Oshawott's evolutionary line and {{p|Turtwig}}'s evolutionary line are the only [[starter Pokémon]] evolutionary lines that share Hidden Abilities.
* Oshawott is the only Pokémon introduced in Generation V whose name starts with O.

===Origin===
Oshawott is based on a {{wp|sea otter}} pup and {{wp|samurai}}<ref>http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ds/interview/irbj/sp/index5.html (dead link)</ref>. The way that Oshawott's shell rests on its belly resembles the way otters look when cracking open shells to eat. This shell also holds similarities with {{wp|Japanese war fan}}s, which were often used by samurai for defensive purposes.

====Name origin====
Oshawott possibly derives from "ocean", "shell", "water" and "otter"; it may be a corruption of "ocean water". The "osha" part could be a corruption of "O-shaped", given that its Japanese name contains "maru", meaning round. It might make reference to the {{wp|Canada|Canadian}} city of {{wp|Oshawa}}, as Canada contains many protected areas in which sea otters reside. It could also make reference to {{wp|George Ohsawa}}, a famed dietitian born into a poor samurai family during the {{wp|Meiji Restoration}} of Japan. Its Japanese name may be derived from 水 ''mizu'' meaning water, or 未熟 ''mijuku'' meaning naive or immature, and 丸 ''maru'' meaning round. "-maru" is also a common suffix in male Japanese names. The syllable "mi" in its name, meaning "three" or "third", may imply a lineage within the evolutionary line with Mijumaru being third in line.

==In other languages==
{| align="left" class="roundy" style="border: 3px solid #{{Water color dark}}; background: #{{Water color}};"
|-
|
{| class="roundy" style="background: #{{Water color light}};"
|- align=center
! Language
! Name
! Name Origin
|- style="background:#FFF;"
| [[List of German Pokémon names|German]]
| Ottaro
| From ''otter'' and possibly 太郎 ''tarō'', a common Japanese name.
|- style="background:#FFF;"
| [[List of French Pokémon names|French]]
| Moustillon
| From ''{{tt|moussaillon|ship's boy}}'' and Latin ''{{wp|Mustelidae}}'' (scientific family of the otter).
|- style="background:#FFF;"
| [[List of Korean Pokémon names|Korean]]
| 수댕이 ''Sudaeng'i''
| From {{tt|수달 ''sudal|otter}}''.
|- style="background:#FFF;"
| [[List of Chinese Pokémon names|Chinese]] ({{tt|Mandarin|Taiwan and mainland China}})
| 水水獺 / 水水獭 ''Shuǐshuǐtà''
| From {{tt|水 ''shuǐ''|water}} and {{tt|水獺 ''shuǐtà''|otter}}.
|}
|-
|}
 

==Related articles==
* [[Ash's Oshawott]]

==Notes==
<references />

==External links==
*{{wp|Oshawott, Dewott, and Samurott|Article on Wikipedia}}

{{Starter Pokémon|water}}
{{-}}
{{PokémonPrevNextFoot | prev=Emboar | next=Dewott | type=Water | prevnum=500 | nextnum=502 }}
{{-}}
{{Project Pokédex notice}}

[[Category:Starter Pokémon|501]]
[[Category:Anime starter Pokémon|Oshawott]]

[[de:Ottaro]]
[[es:Oshawott]]
[[fr:Moustillon]]
[[it:Oshawott]]
[[ja:ミジュマル]]
[[pl:Oshawott]]
[[pt:Oshawott (pokémon)]]

Talk:Oshawott (Pokémon)

2012-04-07T17:20:47Z

Grei: /* Possible Inspiration for Oshawott */ new section

==File not showing up==

The artwork won't show up. The same thing happens with the Grass type starter's artwork. [[User:Dialgafan1|Dialgafan1]] 23:40, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
:It has not been uploaded yet. --[[Special:Contributions/CoolPikachu!|'''☆''']][[User:CoolPikachu!|'''Cool''']][[User talk:CoolPikachu!|'''ピカチュウ!''']] 23:42, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
Oh, I'm sorry I just realized that after posting. Are you gonna put the ? image for the menu sprites like you did Zorua and Zoroark? Just wondering. It would look neater. [[User:Dialgafan1|Dialgafan1]] 23:49, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

==500==
It should be stated in the trivia section that Mijumaru is the 500th pokemon {{unsigned|DSDark}}
:No. At the moment we don't know that for sure, and once we do it'll be in the infobox at the start of the article, so there'll be no need. <sc>[[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]]</sc> [[User talk:Werdnae|(talk)]] 00:43, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
::...yes we do? Water starter is always seventh from the last of the last generation. It's like saying we don't know that you'll be able to buy Poké Balls. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 18:32, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

I agree. Have something like "Mijumaru marks a milestone in that it is the 500th Pokémon in the National Pokédex." [[User:Bttsstewart|Bttsstewart]] 03:45, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Here's some trivia relating this: Mijumaru is one of two starter Pokémon to have a National Pokédex number that is divisible by 100, the other being Turtwig. --[[User:Poppy Appletree|Poppy Appletree]] 17:28, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
:Turtwig isn't the 400th, it's Piplup. [[User:Pawsrent|Pawsrent]] 23:13, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
::First, do not reply to old comments. Second, you're actually wrong. Piplup is 393, Chimchar is 390, and Turtwig is 387. 400 is Bibarel. [[User:Turtwig A|Turtwig's]] [[Turtwig (Pokémon)|A-B-Cs]] ([[User talk:Turtwig A|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|contribs]]) 23:30, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

== Trivia ==

Mijumaru is the first Water-type starter based on a mammal. The others were reptiles, with the exception of Piplup, a bird. --[[User:MegaTroopX|MegaTroopX]]
:Mudkip wasn't a reptile though, it's amphibian-like as it was based on mudskippers or axolotl. But I guess that doesn't matter... [[User:Mudkipchan|Mudkipchan]] 03:13, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Actually, mudskippers are fish. [[User:Poisson14|Poisson14]] 05:25, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
:Okay, my bad, but they're still amphibian. Point is, Mudkip is not reptilian. [[User:Mudkipchan|Mudkipchan]] 16:36, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Amphibians are not fish, nor are fish amphibians, though I do see what you are trying to say. [[User:Poisson14|Poisson14]] 08:12, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Some Trivia revealed through Anime Video: Mijumaru here has FANGS. --Dermodio 14:42, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

== Name ==
Where does the name come from? [[User:Eddie Blake|Eddie Blake]] 15:11PM, 13 May 2010

Mijuku means immature, and maru means round, or ball. {{unsigned|Don't Hug Lucario!}}

Should someone add that, or are we waiting? [[User:Poisson14|Poisson14]] 05:25, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

:If I may add, the 'maru' in its name could be a reference to its round head. However I think I recall that 'maru' can also mean boy, which could be a reference that most starters have a higher chance of being male, but that meaning is probably less likely. [[User:Mudkipchan|Mudkipchan]] 21:11, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
::"丸" (まる, ''maru'') means "circle". The other two B&W starters have speculations such as this already added into the name origin section on their pages... someone should add this one in. --[[User:FrozenPandaMan|FrozenPandaMan]] 23:09, 14 May 2010 (UTC) Oh, and 未熟 (みじゅく, ''mijuku'') does indeed mean immature. --[[User:FrozenPandaMan|FrozenPandaMan]] 00:51, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
:::Name origin currently lists 'mizu'. Can an admin add the extra about 'mijuku' please? [[User:Mudkipchan|Mudkipchan]] 06:07, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
:The ending "maru" is also a suffix of many Japanese ships {{unsigned|Snozzardi}}

Another possibility: {{wp|Ring of Bright Water}} is a novel/movie about a man who finds and adopts an otter named Mijbil, nicknamed Mij. Phonetically, Mijbil would likely be ''Mijubiru'', with Mij being ''Miju''. Add the common name suffix -maru for distinct distancing (re: Abra line Japanese name controversy). It can't be a coincidence. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * [[User talk:ArcToraphim|the Arc Toraph]] 22:53, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

== Height and Weight ==

Got this from Pokebeach:

Height: 0.5m (1.6ft)
Wight: 5.9kg (13Ibs) --[[User:Dialgafan1|Dialgafan1]] 23:52, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

== Sprite ==

Here's the sprite of Mijumaru that I uploaded onto Bulbagarden Archives from CoroCoro --[[User:Dialgafan1|Dialgafan1]] 18:51, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Why did it get deleted? [[User:Taromon777|'''T a r o m o n''']] 09:41, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
:That version was deleted because it was a duplicate. The version on the article isn't showing up coz of sync issues :( —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 10:28, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

==Uhm...==
[[File:Spr_3r_000.png|thumb]]
Since when does Mijumaru evolve into Missingno? --[[User:Gen1king|'''GE''']][[User talk:Gen1king|'''N1''']][[Special:Contributions/Gen1king|'''KI''''''NG''']] 20:41, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
:It's a placeholder. We don't know what it evolves into yet, but we know it evolves... [[User:CuboneKing|Cu]][[User talk:CuboneKing|bo]][[Special:Contributions/CuboneKing|ne]][[Cubone (Pokémon)|King]] 20:42, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:Tenquestionmarks-Pokédex.png|thumb|right|200px|]]
::Would it be better to use the question mark sprite from the Pokédex? Not this whole image of course, but I couldn't find the clean sprite by itself. Using Missingno. does seem a bit odd; makes it look like Bulbapedia has gone glitchy! [[User:Taromon777|'''T a r o m o n''']] 09:52, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
:::I agree with Taromon. Lets use oour question mark for unknown, rather than Missingno.--[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 10:01, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
::::Couldn't we just link them as [[image:501.png]] and [[image:502.png]]? It's done for Mijumaru iself. [[User:Takharii|<sc>Takharii</sc>]] '''~''' [[User talk:Takharii|<sc>Talk!</sc>]] 10:41, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

==Moves==

This pokemon knows Water Pulse... [[User:Chomi|Chomi]] 09:19, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
:And just how do you know that? [[User:Sorou|NEOgreenSOROU]] 11:08, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
Mijumaru can also learn Shell Blade, as Munna's Forewarn ability alerted it to the move. {{unsigned|Snozzardi}}

It also learns Revenge, the moves were shown on youtube vids....[[User:Chomi|Chomi]] 18:45, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

which will not be added until the games come out..... -__- [[User:Ataro|Ataro]] 19:05, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

==Physiology for the admins to implement==
Mijumaru is a bipedal sea otter-like Pokémon, primarily light blue, dark blue, and white in coloration. Mijumaru has a rounded, spherical white head, with small, triangular dark-blue ears to the sides. Mijumaru’s eyes are large, dark, and ovular in shape; its dark-orange nose is shaped like an oval tilted to the side. Mijumaru also possesses speckles to the sides of its face, most likely meant to be a stylistic implication of short whiskers in the common manner of cartoon canines, and light blue bubble-esque features composing a “collar” around its neck. Mijumaru’s torso is light blue, and decorated with a pale yellow seashell feature in the center. Its small, digit-less and somewhat rounded arms are white in coloration, with its feet---having, unlike its forearms, discernible digits---colored dark blue. Mijumaru also possesses a slightly plank-shaped dark blue tail. (I should facilitate my efforts before other persons fill in Physiology sections before me...) [[User:Steph|Steph]] 18:24, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
:Thanks again Steph, these are so well written! —♥ [[User:Jello|Jel]][[User Talk:Jello|lo]] 18:27, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
::It's perfect. ♫♪[[User:Adyniz|'''Ady''']][[User talk:Adyniz|'''Niz''']]♪♫ 02:44, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
:::The "---" looks unusual. Is it supposed to be some kind of wiki code that is broken? I think a simple dash (—) would be much better. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 08:19, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
::::Fixed. <sc>[[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]]</sc> [[User talk:Werdnae|(talk)]] 08:28, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, can you put spaces around the dashes too please? --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 09:01, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
::::::Those em dashes aren't supposed to have spaces between them and the word, so technically it is right how it is. <sc>[[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]]</sc> [[User talk:Werdnae|(talk)]] 09:11, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

==Evolution==
Mijumaru's evolutions name is Rakonosua (ラコノスア) Originating from rakka meaning Sea Otter in japanese - ''unsigned comment from {{u|Vkickass}} ([[User talk:Vkickass|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Vkickass|contribs]]) ''
:Is this from the anime beta art? [[User:Turtwig A|Turtwig's]] [[Turtwig (Pokémon)|A-B-Cs]] ([[User talk:Turtwig A|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|contribs]]) 23:17, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
::What source did you get this name from? [[User:Sorou|NEOgreenSOROU]] 02:26, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
the beta art, it took a little effort to read it, and i thought that it would be terribly wrong, but it ended up making sense[[User:Vkickass|Vkickass]] 01:32, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
:::It says ラコノスケ (Rakonosuke), not ラコノスア (Rakonosua) on the chart and seeing as how ツタージャ (Tsutarja) is nicknamed アイビー (Ivy) there, there is no guarantee that Rakonosuke is it's actual name and not a nickname. It would fit with Mijumaru especially considering that -maru is a Japanese male name suffix just as -(no)suke is, but the problem is that it could just be a nickname so It's best to just wait :/ ([[User:Yaminokame|Yaminokame]] 01:45, 22 July 2010 (UTC))

== Possible new info ==

http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/8454/1279467961547.gif

speaking of it's evolution I came across a (fake or not who knows...) gif of it's evo..I'm willing to bet it came from that black and white demo ([[User:Ataro|Ataro]] 17:28, 18 July 2010 (UTC))
:That sprite came from a devianArt user. [http://pokemon-diamond.deviantart.com/art/Mijumaru-evo-sprite-170196576?q=gallery%3APokemon-Diamond%2F4804376&qo=4 Here is the link] --[[User:Crimsonnavy|Crimsonnavy]] 19:17, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

== Questions ==

First question, why does Mijumaru's evolutions show up as the hack L? Shouldn't it show up as question marks? Putting it up as L might just confuse some people. Second question, how do you edit pages again? I noticed that there was no little "edit" at the end of each section so i was wondering. I was going to say that the feet resembled an otter's flippers. Thanks. [[User:Sorou|NEOgreenSOROU]] 22:41, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
:To answer your questions, we don't have sprites for it's evolutions, that's why it shows up as a glitch. I don't know why it would confuse people, unless you really believe it evolves into a glitch Pokémon. Secondly, you can't edit this page because it's protected, like all new Pokémon pages. If you want something added then discuss it on it's talk page. —♥ [[User:Jello|Jel]][[User Talk:Jello|lo]] 22:44, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
::Oh ok thanks. Yeah the L doesn't confuse me but it might confuse another random person who knows ziltch about pokemon. So, lets discuss it now, I was thinking of adding in the info that its feet resemble an otter's flippers, who's for it? [[User:Sorou|NEOgreenSOROU]] 22:48, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
:::That's a bit redundant, since it's already mentioned under it's origin that it's based on a Sea Otter. —♥ [[User:Jello|Jel]][[User Talk:Jello|lo]] 22:50, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
::::I think the question mark further up is alot more appropriate than the glitch sprite. A question mark would get instant recognition by any reader that the evolutions are unknown, which is what we should be shooting for.--[[User_talk:Jack Harkness|J.Harkness]] 22:55, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
:::::@ Jello: True, I thought of that too, right after I posted that. @ J. Harkness: That’s exactly what I was thinking, and for the other starters of this region too. So here is how I think the second to last sentence should look. "Its small, digit-less and somewhat rounded arms are white in coloration, with its feet—having, unlike its forearms, discernible digits and the appearance of small flippers—colored dark blue." [[User:Sorou|NEOgreenSOROU]] 23:00, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
::::::Thanks for the suggestions, we've gone around and changed the sprites to something more appropriate. —♥ [[User:Jello|Jel]][[User Talk:Jello|lo]] 23:57, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
:::::::...hack L? Kids these days... don't even know about Missingno... '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 00:46, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

== About its National number ==

Yes. We know. {{p|Victini}} is #000 in the Isshu dex. This means nothing right now about its National number. Think of it this way: they put Victini at #000 so that you'd not know right off the bat getting it how many other Pokémon there are to find, especially given that it's gonna be an early event, like Manaphy. If you got Mew just after you got your starter in RBY, you'd know there's 151 Pokémon in Kanto. Same with Celebi in GSC, Deoxys in RSE, and so on. This is a failsafe to make Pokémon feel less like "let's see how many they added" and more like "oh, there's so many of these things, I wonder what they all are...". Sure, futile anyway, given that we'll likely have access to the games and have figured out everything by the day after it comes out... but still. An admirable solution to that huge-empty-Pokédex problem we've had since Gen I.

Mijumaru, until further notice, is staying at #500. We cannot assume anything different than it being seventh after Arceus, just as Totodile is seventh after Mew, Mudkip is seventh after Celebi, and Piplup is seventh after Deoxys. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 00:55, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

== Mammalian ==
I hate to be a stickler, but Pikachu is based off of a mammal. ----[[User:Zewis29|Zewis]] [[User talk:Zewis29|(2]][[Special:Contributions/Zewis29|9)]] 00:43, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
:Technically, I think that piece of trivia doesn't include Pikachu; yes, it was the starter in Yellow, but it isn't an official "starter Pokémon" since it isn't one of the first three evolutionary lines in any regional Pokédex. But I do think the trivia about being the first non-Fire type mammalian starter could be removed. [[User:Phantomjunkie|Phantom]][[User talk:Phantomjunkie|Junkie]] 01:25, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
::Well, if we want to do this, Eevee from XD is a mammal, as well as as countless others from side series games. But I think it should stay, a Yellow wasn't a regular version.----[[User:Zewis29|Zewis]] [[User talk:Zewis29|(2]][[Special:Contributions/Zewis29|9)]] 13:00, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

<s>Meowth thats right!</s> You are absoloutley correct. Though Perhps it could be changed to "The first Mamillian Starter ''from the main games'' not to be a fire type." --Dermodio 14:48, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
:The problem with that is that Yellow, Colosseum, and XD are all considered "main series" games. So really there's no good way to include this.--[[User:Phantomjunkie|Phantom]][[User talk:Phantomjunkie|Junkie]] 15:09, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Uh, yeah, about Mijumaru being the only water type mammal pokemon? He's not, what about Buizel and Floatzel, the other otter based water type pokemon?[[User:Ultimos-11|Ultimos-11]] 06:38, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:Excuse me, but I think you should read ''that'' trivia again.
:It says "''Mijimaru is the first '''Water-type starter Pokémon''' to be based on a mammal as well as the first mammalian starter not to be of the Fire-type.''"
:So, we are talking about Water-'''Starter''' Pokémon not a normal water type. Buizel and Floatzel are not starters ya know. ♫♪[[User:Adyniz|'''Ady''']][[User talk:Adyniz|'''Niz''']]♪♫ 06:44, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
::"...as well as the first mammalian starter not to be of the Fire-type." Um, Eevee, Pikachu, and others came before and are not Fire types. [[User:Gliscorguy54|Gliscorguy54]] 20:02, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

== Ability ==

On the Demo released for Black and White when this Pokémon enters battle it starts raining. That means it has the ability Drizzle. Can someone add that?
--[[User:Lucario and Pichu|Lucario and Pichu]] 01:32, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
:Mijumaru was sent in second; that means nothing. The player and Bel could have easily been on a route where it rains. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * [[User talk:ArcToraphim|the Arc Toraph]] 01:46, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
::It was a wild battle against that electric Zebra Pokémon. And there was clearly no rain in the overworld before the battle started. Could someone please translate the text in the wild battle screen? --[[User:Lucario and Pichu|Lucario and Pichu]] 01:55, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
:::There is also rain in the battle between Mijumaru and Tsutarja at 0:25 in the video.--[[User:Phantomjunkie|Phantom]][[User talk:Phantomjunkie|Junkie]] 02:01, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Actually, the more I look at the video, the more I think that since this is a demo, the rain might be an arbitrary addition to show weather effects in battle. It's raining in every battle that Mijumaru takes part in, but the hiragana doesn't match the Japanese for either Rain Dance or Drizzle.--[[User:Phantomjunkie|Phantom]][[User talk:Phantomjunkie|Junkie]] 02:12, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
:::::But its still a version of the game. The developers aren't going to just make it rain in battle. If there smart they'll make the demo closest to the game as possible. --[[User:Lucario and Pichu|Lucario and Pichu]] 03:22, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::If you pay attention closely during the battle during the wild Shimama, you can see that the rain effect doesn't show up between turns, meaning that they either changed the weather mechanics so that you aren't reminded every turn about the weather, or that (natural) rain doesn't have an effect on the actual battle (as opposed to rain from Drizzle or Rain Dance). Of course, even that's speculation. In any case, it's not confirmed that Mijumaru has Drizzle, so we shouldn't put it on the article yet. '''~ [[User:Sol|sol]][[User talk:Sol|ar]][[Special:Contributions/Sol|is]]''' 03:33, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
:::::::Just thought I'd add in here that with the [[n:Pokémon Sunday features new footage from Black and White|higher quality video]] that we've gotten, you can clearly see the rain in the overworld. '''~ [[User:Sol|sol]][[User talk:Sol|ar]][[Special:Contributions/Sol|is]]''' 04:55, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::::Okay I can see it now. Never mind. --[[User:Lucario and Pichu|Lucario and Pichu]] 13:41, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

== Shell Blade ==

It should be noted that Mijumaru's shell appears to be detachable, as it is holding it in the poster for [[Best Wishes]]. It seems likely this is how it will use its Shell Blade attack. --[[User:Phred|Phred]] 06:41, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
:The preview for best wishes shows it using as a shield, so it shouldn't just say attacking....[[User:Ataro|Ataro]] 06:56, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

== Typo ==

* '''Mijimaru''' is the first {{type2|Water}} [[starter Pokémon]] to be based on a mammal as well as the first mammalian starter not to be of the {{type2|Fire}}.
:Can we get a "Miju" out of the "Miji", please? [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * [[User talk:ArcToraphim|the Arc Toraph]] 13:37, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
::After several conflicts, it's been fixed. --[[Special:Contributions/CoolPikachu!|'''☆''']][[User:CoolPikachu!|'''Cool''']][[User talk:CoolPikachu!|'''Pikachu!''']] 14:33, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

== Ash's Mijumaru ==

Ash was seen commanding a Mijumaru and beating the smack out of Dento's Yanappu...so shouldnt sair Article be protected? (if it isnt already) [[User:Ataro|Ataro]] 11:41, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
:Way ahead of you there. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 11:46, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
::Also, shouldn't it be added that a Mijumaru is owned by Ash in the anime section? --[[User:S2daam|samm -- ]] 21:56, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
:::It's not confirmed, hence the protecting.--[[User:Cold|Cold]] ([[User talk:Cold|talk]]) 22:02, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
::::Yeah I saw the trailer too. I saw a Yanappu then behind it I saw Dento so I guessed it was a gym battle then I thought it would be battling against Ash and then I saw a Mijumaru and just behind it I saw Ash!--[[User:lilkaykaygal|KayKay]]|[[User talk:Lilkaykaygal|Chat to me!]] 12:28, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
:::::*sigh* What have we explained over and over for years? WAIT UNTIL THE EPISODE AIRS. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 23:28, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
::::::I know, I know--[[User:lilkaykaygal|KayKay]]|[[User talk:Lilkaykaygal|Chat to me!]] 23:30, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

== Mijumaru and the evolution were made from the image of the Japan(samurai). ==

It is described to the developer interview of the magazine named pokemon pia.
It is described that the animal that makes it to the theme is a sea otter and a sea dog. The sea dog will appear after it evolves. [[User:Sawamular101|Sawamular101]] 18:01, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
:the heck is a sea dog? (all I get is actual pictures of dogs) so it's another fan interpretation proven correct? [[User:Ataro|Ataro]] 18:21, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
::It was Sea lion(アシカ/ashika). [[User:Sawamular101|Sawamular101]] 18:30, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
:::This makes the starter evos look more real.....[[User:Ataro|Ataro]] 18:40, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
::::The mistake was able to be noticed thanks to you. I thank you.[[User:Sawamular101|Sawamular101]] 18:49, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

== Third evo type? ==

Has it been confimed that the third evolution is simply water, like it's listed under the evolution section? I only ask because it may have a secondary type and we probably shouldn't list it as Water until confirmed otherwise. [[User:EpicShadow|EpicShadow]] 16:57, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
:1. no and 2. no starter changes it's primary type..ever...and never will...when it's fully revealed it'll be changed..[[User:Ataro|Ataro]]

== Special Abilities ==
Would it be okay to mention that the shell on Mijumaru's belly is able to be removed and used as a weapon? [[User:EpicShadow|EpicShadow]] 13:56, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
:<code>a pale yellow seashell feature in the center, which can be removed and used in various ways.</code>

Read article first.--[[User:Dennou Zenshi|でんのう]] ☢ [[User talk:Dennou Zenshi|'''Z'''えんし]] 14:03, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

I am aware of that but... because this is an ability that is most likely uniqu to the Mijumaru family I think it would fit better under Special Abilities. Could we move the part about it being used as a tool? [[User:EpicShadow|EpicShadow]] 00:09, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

== English name ==

The English name for it is Oshawott, as said on the official site. It's [[User:Turtwig A|Turtwig A]]! [[User talk:Turtwig A|My talk]] or [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|wiki edits]] 23:07, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Originwise... surely it's a sort of spoonerism of "Ottawosh?" "Otter" and "Wash," but with the syllables mixed up. [[User:Constantmotion|Constantmotion]] 23:13, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:Really? I could have thought it was a mix of "ocean" (or at least the way it sounds), and "water"+"otter", shortened, obviously. [[User:Omnis|Omnis]] 00:03, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
:: I'm pretty sure Oshawott is a combination of ''{{wp|Oshawa}}'', a city in Ontario Canada, and ''Otter''. It's also possibly a pun of ''"Ocean water"''. [[User:Ninterror|Ninterror]] 01:14, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
::: I'd agree, as Oshawa can mean "The crossing place" or "Crossing the river", and it was along a major fur trading route. --[[User:Dragoon|Dragoon]] 18:44, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

*should it be a trivia that Oshawatt is the only obtainable starter that starts with a vowel.[[User:Ashanddawn4evr|Ashanddawn4evr]] 00:55, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

*Somehow I don't think this should go under "Pokemon with unknown English names" anymore. >_> -[[User:57|5]][[User talk:57|7]] 01:27, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

== Name Origin ==

Maybe its name is based on OSHA. It's the Occupational Safety and Health Administration Water Otter. He walks around with a clipboard, and hands out OSHA violation notices. (This is a joke.) [[User:Mefredbob|Mefredbob]] 09:06, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
:Jokes belong on the forums, not on article talk pages. In all seriousness, I think it comes from ''Ocean'' and ''otter''. No idea where the W comes from. Water maybe? --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] [[User talk:AndyPKMN|(talk)]] 13:29, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

== Oshawott name origin ==

Has anyone considered that its English name may come from Ocean + Shell + Water + Otter? I think that shell is where the "sh" comes from and then it is combined with the similar sound in "ocean". I think the "wott" just comes from water and otter. [[User:NightSky|NightSky]] 18:36, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Kind of possible, might be a pun on multiple things including that, and not just that.--[[User:Dragoon|Dragoon]] 18:43, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

I heard somewhere about Oshawa meaning "crossing the river" in one of the native american languages. Possibility here? --[[User:Pyritie|Pyritie]] 02:21, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
:It does not - [[User:050294|050294]] 02:32, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure the 'Osha' comes from the city in Canada or perhaps George Ohsawa. Look him up on Wiki, he was born to a poor samurai family, which may be the reference. I think the best idea would to include all of these possibilities. MoonlitEevee 03:04, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

I read this somewhere and I'm just throwing it here, because I think it seems fitting: ''ocean'' + ''shell'' + ''water'' + ''otter'' = Oshawott. [[User:Nick.|Nick.]], <sc>[[User talk:Nick.|something to say?]]</sc> 04:16, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: I think that the name orgin being a combination of George Ohsawa a samurai and otter make the most sence. Look at it's evolutions they highly resemble samurai. {{unsigned|Pokemaster97}}
:: The only problem with that is that "Ohsawa" is not the same thing as "Oshawa". Although they seem like a typo away, they mean very different things. [[User:Ztobor|Ztobor]] 05:16, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

this what my prediction that i have put in bulba forums the other day:

oshare(properly dressed up) + wotter(old word for water) or oshaburi(pacifier) + wotter(old word for water) hope it will help. oshare and oshaburi are both Japanese words maybe symbolizing he is based on Japanese samurai.[[User:Badwolf1234|Badwolf1234]] 10:38, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure the "wott" part of its name doesn't come out of "water" or anything, as it is pronounced "vot" as a german w (v, or b if you would) It's /oshavot/. So let's keep thinking... [[User:YukitoOoO|YukitoOoO]] 07:19, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
:Where did you get the idea that it's pronounced like a V? Watch the [[BW001|first episode of the Black and White series of the anime]]. Professor Juniper clearly pronounces the W the way normal English speakers would. It's pronounced in "Oshawott" the same way it is in "water" or "wonder".--[[User:Alex726|'''Alex''''''726''']][[User talk:Alex726|'''(TALK)''']] 01:01, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

== Admin? ==

Can an admin look over the name origin section in the trivia to see if everything in it is right? Right now it just seems like some of the info isn't notable enough. --[[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']]''' 22:59, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
:We don't know the name orgins because we are not the creators. It's basicly common sense and opinion so there really isn't right or wrong. People who don't know relly needs to stop editing the page before it get's blocked. :\ [[User:Pokemaster97|Pokemaster97]] 23:06, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

== Name trivia ==

Anyone think its worth pointing out that Oshawott is the first starter's name, in National dex order, since Totodile to have more than 2 syllables? [[User:Shokuwarrior|Shokuwarrior]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
:It is an interesting find, but it's like saying Oshawott is the first starter's name to begin with a vowel -- not that important enough to warrant an edit. HADAA 21:36, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

== German Name Origin? ==

I'm thinking that the German name could be a combination of otter and taro, another common suffix in Japanese boy names. Taro can also mean boy, so I guess they're suggesting "Otter Boy". Yes I realize that this origin seems pretty obvious, I just figured I would note this before adding it in. [[User:Rai Marshall|Rai Marshall]] 07:59, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

== Shell Name ==

The shell on its belly was given a term in Oak's Live Caster in [[BW006]]. Anyone care to translate it?[[User:Tc26/Anime Predictions|tc]][[User:Tc26|²₆]][[User talk:Tc26|tc]][[User:Tc26/Sandbox|26]] 03:40, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:He says that it's called {{tt|ほたち|hotachi}}, but I believe he wanted to say {{tt|帆立|ほたて, hotate}} which means ''scallop''. Since the kanji 立 can be read the two way (たち or たて), it seems there's no problem using the first one. --[[User:Blow|Blow]] '''([[User talk:Blow|話す]])''' 15:05, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:The Japanese pronounciation for 帆立 is hotate, and cannot be hotachi. According to speculations by Japanese bloggers, Oshawott's {{tt|ホタチ|hotachi}} is an invented term, which is a combination of {{tt|帆立|ほたて, hotate}}, ''scallop'', and {{tt|太刀|たち, tachi}}, ''Japanese sword''. It can be translated as a "scallopblade" or a "scallopsword", but I don't really care which one we use. HADAA 21:24, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

::It is a combination of "Hotate(Scallop)" and "Tachi(Sword)".　The Japanese culture that gave the sword the name was adopted.[http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ds/interview/irbj/sp/index5.html] [[User:Sawamular101|Sawamular101]] 00:09, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
:::A bit late, but the English dub of [[BW003]] named it as the "Scalchop". - ''unsigned comment from [[User:Missingno. Master|Missingno. Master]] ([[User talk:Missingno. Master|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Missingno._Master|contribs]])'' 18:48, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

== Possible Reference Origin ==

Oshawott looks strikingly similar to the character Pascal in Animal Crossing with the exception of the nose style and Pascal is red. [[User:Chum|Chum]] 22:19, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
:The only things that are really similar between the two is the shell and the size of the head. Otherwise, they really aren't that similar. Not notable, in my opinion.--[[User:Alex726|'''Alex''''''726''']][[User talk:Alex726|'''(TALK)''']] 02:46, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
:They're both otters, everything about the body size is proportional, eyes are relatively the same except Oshawott's are a tiny bit more oval-shaped, same shaped mouth, and most importantly, the shell. [[User:Chum|Chum]] 15:47, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

== Crystal party sprite ==
http://rghost.ru/4447715/image.png In {{v|Crystal}} all pokemon from humanshape egg group had the same sprite, as for me, this sprite resembles Oshawott... — ∀<tt>[[User:ЫъГЬ|ЫъГѣ]] ∃[[User_talk:ЫъГЬ|Talk page]]</tt> 18:30, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
:I think it was supposed to resemble Mr. Mime, but I see what you mean. There is a resemblence, definitely. I'd say worth a mention in trivia, at the very least. - ''unsigned comment from [[User:Missingno. Master|Missingno. Master]] ([[User talk:Missingno. Master|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Missingno._Master|contribs]])'' 18:47, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
::Coincidence. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 19:02, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
:::Doesn't mean it shouldn't be added. It's only the trivia section we're talking here, and I'm sure this isn't the first coincidence to be identified via a page's trivia section. - ''unsigned comment from [[User:Missingno. Master|Missingno. Master]] ([[User talk:Missingno. Master|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Missingno._Master|contribs]])'' 19:04, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
::::Of course it is coincidence. Thats exactly my point actually. Since I found support, I'll add it. — ∀<tt>[[User:ЫъГЬ|ЫъГѣ]] ∃[[User_talk:ЫъГЬ|Talk page]]</tt> 19:10, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
:::::It's an opinion. It's supposed to be Mr. Mime and nothing more. It's isn't worth mentioning. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 19:39, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

== Origin ==

Please look into these ideas and help me:
Snivy's decided snake of origin is listed as the Green Vine Snake which is native to the South and Central Americas.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Vine_Snake

Tepig's name sounds like Tapir which is a browsing mammal similar to a pig. There is a South American Tapir. Tepig's coloring is similar to the Asian Malayan Tapir, though I realize this may be coincidence as Asia is not in South America. ;)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_American_Tapir
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malayan_Tapir

Oshawott may be based on the Marine Otter if my theory is correct; not the Sea Otter. The Marine Otter is native to South American shores and is the most marine of all South American otter types. Its name also sounds ''an awful lot'' like "Ocelot" (native to South/Central Americas), which I found odd because it is obviously based on the otter. But Wikipedia states that the Marine Otter's colloquial nickname is "Gato Marino" which means "marine cat". Coincidence? I think Oshanott!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_otter
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocelot

Just sayin'.
--[[User:GrowlitheandEkans|GrowlitheandEkans]] 03:06, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
I think those actually are just that: coincidences. You're basing a lot of those assumptions on the English names, while the Japanese names suggest no such basis. I also think Oshawott's name is meant to be pronounced like "ocean" rather than "ocelot". And appearance-wise, Oshawott is clearly more similar to a sea otter than to a marine otter. And Tepig clearly comes from "tepid" and "pig" rather than tapir; again, it very clearly looks like a pig, while tapirs look far different. --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] [[User talk:AndyPKMN|(talk)]] 12:03, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

==Name Origin==
There are too many speculations of "Derr, uhh, well, it could be this!"
If we don't know, we dont know.
Otherwise let's do some actual research to figure out where the name comes from and get rid of all these groundless speculations[[User:Bug Catcher Wade|'''Bug Catcher Wade''']] 05:47, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

== Possible Inspiration for Oshawott ==

In the Origin section of Oshawott's article, I added in that his design is possibly also inspired by the way otters rest on their backs in the water and lay shells on their stomachs. I thought this was its obvious origin and was surprised when it wasn't already there. [[User:Grei|Grei]] 17:20, 7 April 2012 (UTC)

Togekiss (Pokémon)

2012-03-29T01:45:41Z

Grei: /* Physiology */

{{PokémonPrevNextHead | species=Togekiss | prev=Magmortar | next=Yanmega |type=normal|type2=flying| prevnum=467| nextnum=469}}
{{PokémonInfobox|
name=Togekiss |
jname=トゲキッス |
tmname=Togekiss |
size=260px |
art=DP|
pron=<sc>toh-ge-''kiss''</sc>|
ndex=468 |
sdex=175 |
abrow=261 |
obrow=155 |
opbrow=119 |
typen=2 |
type1=Normal |
type2=Flying |
species=Jubilee |
height-ftin=4'11" |
height-m=1.5 |
weight-lbs=83.8 |
weight-kg=38.0 |
abilityn=2 |
ability1=Hustle |
ability2=Serene Grace |
abilityd=Super Luck |
egggroupn=2 |
egggroup1=Flying |
egggroup2=Fairy |
eggcycles=10 |
evsa=2|
evsd=1|
expyield=220 |
lv100exp=800,000 |
gendercode=31|
color=White |
catchrate=30 |
body=09 |
pokefordex=togekiss |
generation=4 |
footnotes= }}
'''Togekiss''' ([[List of Japanese Pokémon names|Japanese]]: '''トゲキッス''' ''Togekiss'') is a dual-type {{2t|Normal|Flying}} Pokémon.

It [[Evolution|evolves]] from {{p|Togetic}} when exposed to a {{evostone|Shiny Stone}}. It is the final form of {{p|Togepi}}.

==Biology==
===Physiology===
Togekiss is a vaguely avian Pokémon with an egg-shaped body. It is covered in white, downy feathers and has broad, triangle-shaped wings that allow it to soar effortlessly. Interestingly, Togekiss lacks the stubby arms that its pre-evolutions had. Its underbelly is dotted with the small red and blue triangular spots that are the signature of the Togepi evolution family. Togekiss has very small feet which are set close together, making them somewhat awkward for moving about on the ground. The former spikes on its head have grown into a three-pointed crest. The middle point is white all the way to the tip, but the left and right spikes are tipped in blue and red respectively (the reverse is true for its {{shiny}} form).

====Gender differences====
None.

====Special abilities====
Togekiss learns a wide range of elemental attacks, as well as various aerial and wind-based moves. Most notably, it is able to wield {{m|Aura Sphere}}, along with {{p|Lucario}}, {{p|Mienfoo}} and its {{p|Mienshao|family}}, the only non-[[legendary Pokémon]] that are able to learn it.

===Behavior===
Togekiss are generally friendly and caring Pokémon. They tend to avoid conflict, supposedly never appearing where strife is occurring. They are also said to share blessings with those who love another. However, Togekiss are also powerful fighters capable of using a wide variety of attacks. They will protect their young, {{p|Togepi}}, with miraculous care. These Pokémon soar gracefully through the air, often performing tricks and aerial maneuvers.

===Habitat===
Togekiss are so vastly rare that many trainers do not bother trying to find one. Instead, most trainers prefer evolving their Togetic into a Togekiss with a {{evostone|Shiny Stone}}.

===Diet===
{{main|Pokémon food}}

==In the anime==
[[Image:DawnTogekiss.png|thumb|right|250px|Togekiss in the anime.]]
===Major appearances===
====[[Dawn's Togekiss]]====
{{TP|Dawn|Togekiss}} made its anime debut in ''[[DP171|Dawn of a Royal Day!]]'', under the command of [[Princess Salvia]]. Salvia later gave the Togekiss to {{an|Dawn}} as a gift.

===Minor appearances===
Togekiss makes a cameo at the beginning of the movie ''[[M11|Giratina and the Sky Warrior]]''.

===Pokédex entries===
{{Animedexheader|Sinnoh}}
{{Animedexbody|DP171|Togekiss|Dawn's Pokédex|Togekiss, the Jubilee Pokémon and the evolved form of {{p|Togetic}}. It is said that Togekiss never appears where there is conflict.}}
{{Animedexfooter/Pokémon|''Diamond & Pearl''|Sinnoh}}

==In the manga==
[[Arcade Star Dahlia]] is shown to own a Togekiss in the {{chap|Platinum}} of [[Pokémon Adventures]]. {{adv|Platinum}} uses it when she and Dahlia swap Pokémon during Platinum's Battle Arcade campaign under the condition of "Pokémon Swap."

Later, in the {{chap|HeartGold & SoulSilver}}, {{Adv|Gold}}'s [[Togebo]] quickly evolves into a {{p|Togetic}} and then into a Togekiss with the [[Shiny Stone]] it held.

==In the TCG==
{{main|Togekiss (TCG)}}

==Game data==
===Pokédex entries===

{{Dex
|type=normal
|type2=flying
|gen=4
|dpdex=It will never appear where there is strife. Its sightings have become rare recently.
|platinumdex=It shares many blessings with people who respect one another's rights and avoid needless strife.
|hgssdex=As everyone knows, it visits peaceful regions, bringing them gifts of kindness and sweet blessings.
|bwdex=It shares many blessings with people who respect one another's rights and avoid needless strife.
}}

===Game locations===
{{Availability|
type=normal|
type2=flying|
gen=4 |
dparea=[[Evolution|Evolve]] {{p|Togetic}} |
ptarea=[[Evolution|Evolve]] {{p|Togetic}} |
hgssarea=[[Evolution|Evolve]] {{p|Togetic}} |
bwrarity=None |
bwarea=[[Evolution|Evolve]] {{p|Togetic}} |
gen5ex=white |
}}

====In side games====
{{SidegameAvail
|type=Normal
|type2=Flying
|md2=[[Sky Stairway]] (1F-49F)
|ranger2=[[Altru Tower]]
|rumble=[[Windy Prairie‎]]
|ranger3={{ra|Sky}} [[Light Temple]]
|pokepark=[[Granite Zone]]
|rumble2=Lake: [[World Axle - B2F]]
}}

====Pokémon Global Link promotions====
{{eventAvail/h|type=normal|type2=flying}}
{{eventAvail|List of Pokémon Global Link promotions#Togekiss|Birthday Dream World Togekiss|Japanese PGL|2010|10}}
{{eventAvail|List of Pokémon Global Link promotions#Togekiss|Dream World Togekiss|Korean PGL|2011|10}}
{{eventAvail|List of Pokémon Global Link promotions#Togekiss|Birthday Dream World Togekiss|International PGL|2011|10}}
|}

===Stats===
====Base stats====
{{BaseStats|
type=normal |
type2=flying |
HP=85 |
Attack=50 |
Defense=95 |
SpAtk=120 |
SpDef=115 |
Speed=80 }}

====Pokéathlon stats====
{{Pokéthlon
|type=Normal
|type2=Flying
|Speed=3
|SpeedMax=4
|Power=2
|PowerMax=3
|Technique=3
|TechniqueMax=4
|Stamina=3
|StaminaMax=4
|Jump=5
|JumpMax=5
}}

===Type effectiveness===
{{Type effectiveness|
type1=normal|
type2=flying|
Normal= 100 |
Flying= 100 |
Fighting=100 |
Ground= 0 |
Rock= 200 |
Bug= 50 |
Poison= 100 |
Ghost= 0 |
Steel= 100 |

Fire= 100 |
Water= 100 |
Grass= 50 |
Electric=200 |
Psychic= 100 |
Ice= 200 |
Dragon= 100 |
Dark= 100 |

notes=yes|
flying=yes|
newground=1}}

===Learnset===
====By [[level|leveling up]]====
{{learnlist/levelh|Togekiss|Normal|Flying|5|4}}
{{learnlist/level5|Start|Sky Attack|Flying|Physical|140|90|5||'''}}
{{learnlist/level5|Start|ExtremeSpeed|Normal|Physical|80|100|5||'''}}
{{learnlist/level5|Start|Aura Sphere|Fighting|Special|90|—|20}}
{{learnlist/level5|Start|Air Slash|Flying|Special|75|95|20||'''}}
{{learnlist/levelf|Togekiss|Normal|Flying|5|4}}

====By [[TM]]/[[HM]]====
{{learnlist/tmh|Togekiss|Normal|Flying|5|4}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM03|Psyshock|Psychic|Special|80|100|10}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM06|Toxic|Poison|Status|—|90|10}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM10|Hidden Power|Normal|Special|—|100|15}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM11|Sunny Day|Fire|Status|—|—|5}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM15|Hyper Beam|Normal|Special|150|90|5||'''}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM16|Light Screen|Psychic|Status|—|—|30}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM17|Protect|Normal|Status|—|—|10}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM18|Rain Dance|Water|Status|—|—|5}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM19|Telekinesis|Psychic|Status|—|—|15}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM20|Safeguard|Normal|Status|—|—|25}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM21|Frustration|Normal|Physical|—|100|20||'''}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM22|SolarBeam|Grass|Special|120|100|10}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM27|Return|Normal|Physical|—|100|20||'''}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM29|Psychic|Psychic|Special|90|100|10}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM30|Shadow Ball|Ghost|Special|80|100|15}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM31|Brick Break|Fighting|Physical|75|100|15}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM32|Double Team|Normal|Status|—|—|15}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM33|Reflect|Psychic|Status|—|—|20}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM35|Flamethrower|Fire|Special|95|100|15}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM38|Fire Blast|Fire|Special|120|85|5}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM40|Aerial Ace|Flying|Physical|60|—|20||'''}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM42|Facade|Normal|Physical|70|100|20||'''}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM44|Rest|Psychic|Status|—|—|10}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM45|Attract|Normal|Status|—|100|15}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM48|Round|Normal|Special|60|100|15||'''}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM49|Echoed Voice|Normal|Special|40|100|15||'''}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM56|Fling|Dark|Physical|—|100|10}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM59|Incinerate|Fire|Special|30|100|15}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM67|Retaliate|Normal|Physical|70|100|5||'''}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM68|Giga Impact|Normal|Physical|150|90|5||'''}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM70|Flash|Normal|Status|—|100|20}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM73|Thunder Wave|Electric|Status|—|100|20}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM77|Psych Up|Normal|Status|—|—|10}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM83|Work Up|Normal|Status|—|—|30}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM85|Dream Eater|Psychic|Special|100|100|15}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM86|Grass Knot|Grass|Special|—|100|20}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM87|Swagger|Normal|Status|—|90|15}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM88|Pluck|Flying|Physical|60|100|20||'''}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM90|Substitute|Normal|Status|—|—|10}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM94|Rock Smash|Fighting|Physical|40|100|15}}
{{learnlist/tm5|HM02|Fly|Flying|Physical|90|95|15||'''}}
{{learnlist/tmf|Togekiss|Normal|Flying|5|4}}

====By {{pkmn|breeding}}====
{{learnlist/breedh|Togekiss|normal|flying|5|4}}
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|163|Hoothoot}}{{MSP|164|Noctowl}}|Extrasensory|Psychic|Special|80|100|30|Cool|2||}}
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|163|Hoothoot}}{{MSP|164|Noctowl}}{{MSP|300|Skitty}}{{MSP|301|Delcatty}}|Foresight|Normal|Status|—|—|40|Smart|1}}
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|177|Natu}}{{MSP|178|Xatu}}{{MSP|527|Woobat}}{{MSP|528|Swoobat}}|Future Sight|Psychic|Special|100|100|10}}
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|035|Clefairy}}{{MSP|036|Clefable}}{{MSP|177|Natu}}{{MSP|178|Xatu}}{{MSP|420|Cherubi}}{{MSP|421|Cherrim}}|Lucky Chant|Normal|Status|—|—|30|Cute|2}}
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|016|Pidgey}}{{MSP|017|Pidgeotto}}{{MSP|018|Pidgeot}}{{MSP|021|Spearow}}{{MSP|022|Fearow}}{{MSP|333|Swablu}} {{MSP|334|Altaria}}{{MSP|441|Chatot}}{{MSP|561|Sigilyph}}|Mirror Move|Flying|Status|—|—|20|Smart|2}}
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|420|Cherubi}}{{MSP|421|Cherrim}}|Morning Sun|Normal|Status|—|—|5}}
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|311|Plusle}}{{MSP|312|Minun}}{{MSP|430|Honchkrow}}|Nasty Plot|Dark|Status|—|—|20|Cute|0}}
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|021|Spearow}}{{MSP|022|Fearow}}{{MSP|083|Farfetch'd}}{{MSP|084|Doduo}}{{MSP|085|Dodrio}}{{MSP|163|Hoothoot}} {{MSP|164|Noctowl}}{{MSP|177|Natu}}{{MSP|178|Xatu}}{{MSP|198|Murkrow}}{{MSP|430|Honchkrow}}{{MSP|227|Skarmory}} {{MSP|276|Taillow}}{{MSP|277|Swellow}}{{MSP|333|Swablu}}{{MSP|334|Altaria}}{{MSP|441|Chatot}}{{MSP|627|Rufflet}} {{MSP|628|Braviary}}|Peck|Flying|Physical|35|100|35|Cool|3||'''}}
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|025|Pikachu}}{{MSP|026|Raichu}}{{MSP|035|Clefairy}}{{MSP|036|Clefable}}{{MSP|039|Jigglypuff}}{{MSP|040|Wigglytuff}} {{MSP|183|Marill}}{{MSP|184|Azumarill}}{{MSP|209|Snubbull}}{{MSP|210|Granbull}}|Present|Normal|Physical|—|90|15|Cute|0|*|'''}}
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|163|Hoothoot}}{{MSP|164|Noctowl}}{{MSP|177|Natu}}{{MSP|178|Xatu}}|Psycho Shift|Psychic|Status|—|90|10|Cool|0}}
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|531|Audino}}|Secret Power|Normal|Physical|70|100|20||||'''}}
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|035|Clefairy}}{{MSP|036|Clefable}}{{MSP|177|Natu}}{{MSP|178|Xatu}}|Stored Power|Psychic|Special|20|100|10}}{{learnlist/breedf|Togekiss|normal|flying|5|4}}

====By [[move tutor|tutoring]]====
{{learnlist/tutorh|Togekiss|normal|flying|5|4}}
{{learnlist/tutor5null}}
{{learnlist/tutorf|Togekiss|normal|flying|5|4}}

====By a prior [[evolution]]====
{{Learnlist/prevoh|Togekiss|Normal|Flying|5|4}}
{{Learnlist/prevo5|175|Togepi||176|Togetic||Growl|Normal|Status|—|100|40}}
{{Learnlist/prevo5|175|Togepi||176|Togetic||Charm|Normal|Status|—|100|20}}
{{Learnlist/prevo5|175|Togepi||176|Togetic||Metronome|Normal|Status|—|—|10}}
{{Learnlist/prevo5|175|Togepi||176|Togetic||Sweet Kiss|Normal|Status|—|75|10}}
{{Learnlist/prevo5|175|Togepi||176|Togetic||Yawn|Normal|Status|—|—|10}}
{{Learnlist/prevo5|175|Togepi||176|Togetic||Encore|Normal|Status|—|100|5}}
{{Learnlist/prevo5|175|Togepi||176|Togetic||Follow Me|Normal|Status|—|—|20}}
{{Learnlist/prevo5|175|Togepi||176|Togetic||Bestow|Normal|Status|—|—|15}}
{{Learnlist/prevo5|175|Togepi||176|Togetic||Wish|Normal|Status|—|—|10}}
{{Learnlist/prevo5|175|Togepi||176|Togetic||AncientPower|Rock|Special|60|100|5}}
{{Learnlist/prevo5|175|Togepi||176|Togetic||Baton Pass|Normal|Status|—|—|40}}
{{Learnlist/prevo5|175|Togepi||176|Togetic||Double-Edge|Normal|Physical|120|100|15|'''}}
{{Learnlist/prevo5|175|Togepi||176|Togetic||Last Resort|Normal|Physical|140|100|5|'''}}
{{Learnlist/prevo5|175|Togepi||176|Togetic||After You|Normal|Status|—|—|15}}
{{Learnlist/prevo5|176|Togetic|||||Magical Leaf|Grass|Special|60|—|20}}
{{Learnlist/prevof|Togekiss|Normal|Flying|5|4}}

====By {{pkmn2|event}}s====
{{learnlist/eventh|Togekiss|Normal|Flying|5|4}}
{{learnlist/event5|[[List of Pokémon Global Link promotions#Togekiss|Global Link]]|Present|Normal|Physical|—|90|15||'''|}}
{{learnlist/eventf|Togekiss|Normal|Flying|5|4}}

===Side game data===
{{Sidegame|
type=normal |
ndex=468 |
Dungeon2=yes |
body2=1 |
rate2=-12 |
iq=H |
Ranger2=yes |
group2=Normal |
assist2=Normal |
field2=Cut |
field2power=3 |
browser2=It spits {{m|Aura Sphere|aura orbs}} and {{m|Twister|twisters}} to attack. It protects itself with a {{m|Safeguard|strange barrier}}. |
Ranger3=yes |
group3= Normal |
assist3= Normal |
field3= Cut |
field3power=3 |
assist3p=Flying |
field3p=Cut |
field3ppower=1 |
browser3=It lets loose shock waves to attack. |
rumble=yes|
rumbleattack=4|
rumbledefense=5|
rumblespeed=3|
rumble2=yes|
rumble2attack=4|
rumble2defense=5|
rumble2speed=3|
Pad=Togekiss gave you a Secret Word in the [[Granite Zone]]. She likes sky-based Attractions and excels at {{DL|Attractions|Pelipper's Circle Circuit}}. |
}}

===Evolution===
{{evobox
|family=Baby
|sprite1=175
|name1=Togepi
|type1-1=Normal
|evotype1=Happiness
|sprite2=176
|name2=Togetic
|type1-2=Normal
|type2-2=Flying
|evotype2=Stone
|evostone2=Shiny Stone
|sprite3=468
|name3=Togekiss
|type1-3=Normal
|type2-3=Flying}}

===Sprites===
{{Sprite|
type=normal|
type2=flying|
gen=4|
gender=none|
ndex=468|
name=Togekiss|
}}

==Trivia==
* Togekiss and its pre-[[evolution]], {{p|Togetic}}, along with {{p|Yanma}}, {{p|Yanmega}}, {{p|Giratina}} and {{p|Smeargle}} (by {{m|Sketch}}), are the only Pokémon that can learn all three [[Move variations|variations]] of {{m|AncientPower}}.
*Togekiss learns the most moves that never miss regardless of the user's accuracy or the user's evasiveness: {{m|Aura Sphere}}, {{m|Shock Wave}}, {{m|Swift}}, {{m|Aerial Ace}}, and {{m|Magical Leaf}}.
* Togekiss's weight is equal to that of {{ga|Lucas}}, as well as other four Pokémon; {{p|Sudowoodo}}, {{p|Skuntank}}, {{p|Fearow}}, and {{p|Yanma}}. Togekiss is also the same height as Ethan.
* Togekiss has the highest {{stat|Special Attack}} of all non-legendary {{type|Flying}} Pokémon.
* Togekiss can learn {{m|Drain Punch}} and {{m|Focus Punch}} despite not having any visible hands. However, it did have hands before evolving.
* As of [[Generation V]], no other Pokémon have same dual [[egg group]] as Togekiss and its {{p|Togetic|pre-evolution}}. In this case, both in {{egg|Flying}} and {{egg|Fairy}} are unique.
* Togekiss is the only Pokémon to have evolved by using an [[evolutionary stone]] that doesn't share any level-up moves with its pre-evolution.
* Togekiss and its pre-evolution are the only Normal/Flying Pokémon capable of learning an {{type|Electric}} move.
* Togekiss is the only Pokémon that have a [[gender ratio]] of 7:1 that have had a female shown in the anime but not a male.
* Togekiss is the only Pokémon with a base stat total of 545.
* Togekiss is one of two known fully evolved Pokémon, along with {{p|Raticate}}, that can have the {{a|Hustle}} Ability.
** Coincidentally, they are both Normal-type Pokémon.

===Origin===
Togekiss's design appears to draw inspiration from fairies and birds. Its association with peace and joy, as well as its white coloration, suggests inspiration from {{wp|dove}}s, but it soaring flight and some physical aspects are similar to those of large {{wp|birds of prey}}. Togekiss may have also been designed to resemble a {{wp|Flying wing}}.

====Name origin====
Its name is based on 刺 ''toge'', spike, and the English word ''kiss''.

==In other languages==
{| align="left" class="roundy" style="border: 3px solid #{{flying color}}; background: #{{normal color}};"
|-
|
{| class="roundy" style="background: #{{normal color light}};"
|- align=center
! class="roundytl" | Language
! Name
! class="roundytr" | Name Origin
|- style="background:#FFF;"
| [[List of German Pokémon names|German]]
| Togekiss
|
|- style="background:#FFF;"
| [[List of French Pokémon names|French]]
| Togekiss
|
|- style="background:#FFF;"
| [[List of Korean Pokémon names|Korean]]
| 토게키스 ''Togekiss''
|
|- style="background:#FFF;"
| [[List of Chinese Pokémon names|Chinese]] ({{tt|Mandarin|Taiwan and mainland China}})
| 波克基斯 ''Bōkèjīsī''
| Rough transliteration of its Japanese name.
|- style="background:#FFF;"
| class="roundybl" | [[List of Chinese Pokémon names|Chinese]] ({{tt|Cantonese|Hong Kong}})
| 波克基斯 ''Bōhākgēisī''
| class="roundybr" | Mandarin-based transliteration of its Japanese name.
|}
|-
|}
 

==Related articles==
* [[Dawn's Togekiss]]

==External links==

{{PokémonPrevNextFoot | prev=Magmortar | next=Yanmega |type=normal|type2=flying| prevnum=467| nextnum=469}}
{{-}}
{{Project Pokédex notice}}
[[Category:F.E.A.R.-compatible Pokémon]]
[[Category:Pokémon with cross-generational evolutions]]

[[de:Togekiss]]
[[es:Togekiss]]
[[fr:Togekiss]]
[[it:Togekiss]]
[[ja:トゲキッス]]
[[pl:Togekiss]]
[[pt:Togekiss (pokémon)]]

Samurott (Pokémon)

2012-03-29T01:41:01Z

Grei: Undo revision 1634795 by Grei (talk)

{{PokémonPrevNext | prev=Dewott | next=Patrat | prevnum=502 | nextnum=504 | type=Water }}
{{PokémonInfobox|
name=Samurott |
jname=ダイケンキ|
tmname=Daikenki |
size=184px|
art=BW|
pron=<sc>''{{{pron|sah-mu-rawt}}}''</sc> |
species=Formidable|
typen=1 |
type1=Water |
abilityn=1 |
ability1=Torrent |
abilityd=Shell Armor |
ndex=503 |
udex=009 |
height-ftin=4'11" |
height-m=1.5 |
weight-lbs=208.6 |
weight-kg=94.6 |
egggroupn=1 |
egggroup1=Field |
evsa=3|
egggroup2= |
eggcycles=20 |
expyield=238 |
lv100exp=1,059,860 |
gendercode=31 |
color=Blue |
catchrate=45 |
body=08|
pokefordex=samurott |
generation=5 |
footnotes=}}
'''Samurott''' ([[List of Japanese Pokémon names|Japanese]]: '''ダイケンキ''' ''Daikenki'') is a {{type2|Water}} Pokémon.

It evolves from {{p|Dewott}} starting at [[level]] 36. It is the final form of {{p|Oshawott}}.

==Biology==
[[File:Unova starters evolution artwork.png|left|thumb|200px|Poster showing Samurott standing on its hind legs and carrying its unsheathed sword]]
===Physiology===
Samurott is a quadruped, blue sea lion-like Pokémon. Long, white whiskers extend from its snout and head, and on the back of its head is a large, rounded beige helmet-like shell with spikes and a spear-like, pointed protrusion in the front. Its underbelly is covered by a dull bluish gray seashell-like carapace, and its limbs are covered with beige, sectioned bracer-like coverings, looking as if comprised of seashells with the forelimbs’ bracers being the swords called [[scalchop|ashigatana]] that it uses in battle. The lower two segments of these bracers are the scabbards for the two swords. The upper segment and spike make up the ashigatana and its handle, respectively. Samurott possess three navy digits on each limb, and a fin-like, splayed tail with the innermost section being beige like the seashell-like portions of its body.

====Gender differences====
None.

===Special abilities===
Part of the armor on its forefeet is a sword; one swing of it can beat opponents. It can silence foes with its glare alone and can dominate foes simply by howling. When in battle, Samurott can stand on its hind legs and use one of its blades as a sword to fight.

===Behavior===
It glares and howls at opponents to silence and dominate them.

===Habitat===
As Samurott is amphibious, it lives by the water.

===Diet===

==In the anime==
[[File:Leeku Samurott.png|thumb|right|Samurott in the anime]]

===Major appearances===

===Minor appearances===
A Samurott appeared in ''[[M14|White—Victini and Zekrom and Black—Victini and Reshiram]]'', under the ownership of [[Leeku]]. It fought and lost to [[Ash's Tepig]] in a tournament in [[Eindoak Town]], after Tepig received a power boost from [[Victini (movie 14)|Victini]]'s powers.

==In the manga==

==In the TCG==
{{main|Samurott (TCG)}}

==Game data==

===Pokédex entries===
{{Dex
|type=Water
|gen=5
|blackdex=One swing of the sword incorporated in its armor can fell an opponent. A simple glare from one of them quiets everybody.
|whitedex=Part of the armor on its anterior legs becomes a giant sword. Its cry alone is enough to intimidate most enemies.
}}

===Game locations===
{{Availability|
type=water|
gen=5 |
bwrarity=None|
bwarea=Evolve {{p|Dewott}}
}}

====In side games====
{{SidegameAvail
|type=water
|rumble2=Beach: [[World Axle - B1F]]
|pokepark2=[[Cove Area]]
}}

===Held items===

===Stats===
====Base stats====
{{Base stats
|HP=95
|Attack=100
|Defense=85
|SpAtk=108
|SpDef=70
|Speed=70
|type=Water}}

===Type effectiveness===
{{Type effectiveness|
type1=water|
Normal= 100 |
Fighting=100 |
Flying= 100 |
Poison= 100 |
Ground= 100 |
Rock= 100 |
Bug= 100 |
Ghost= 100 |
Steel= 50 |

Fire= 50 |
Water= 50 |
Grass= 200 |
Electric=200 |
Psychic= 100 |
Ice= 50 |
Dragon= 100 |
Dark= 100 }}

===Learnset===
====By [[Level|leveling up]]====
{{learnlist/levelh|Samurott|Water|Water|5|5}}
{{learnlist/level5|Start|Megahorn|Bug|Physical|120|85|10}}
{{learnlist/level5|Start|Tackle|Normal|Physical|50|100|35}}
{{learnlist/level5|Start|Tail Whip|Normal|Status|—|100|30}}
{{learnlist/level5|Start|Water Gun|Water|Special|40|100|25||'''}}
{{learnlist/level5|Start|Water Sport|Water|Status|—|—|15}}
{{learnlist/level5|5|Tail Whip|Normal|Status|—|100|30}}
{{learnlist/level5|7|Water Gun|Water|Special|40|100|25||'''}}
{{learnlist/level5|11|Water Sport|Water|Status|—|—|15}}
{{learnlist/level5|13|Focus Energy|Normal|Status|—|—|30}}
{{learnlist/level5|17|Razor Shell|Water|Physical|75|95|10||'''}}
{{learnlist/level5|20|Fury Cutter|Bug|Physical|20|95|20}}
{{learnlist/level5|25|Water Pulse|Water|Special|60|100|20||'''}}
{{learnlist/level5|28|Revenge|Fighting|Physical|60|100|10}}
{{learnlist/level5|33|Aqua Jet|Water|Physical|40|100|20||'''}}
{{learnlist/level5|36|Slash|Normal|Physical|70|100|20}}
{{learnlist/level5|38|Encore|Normal|Status|—|100|5}}
{{learnlist/level5|45|Aqua Tail|Water|Physical|90|90|10||'''}}
{{learnlist/level5|50|Retaliate|Normal|Physical|70|100|5}}
{{learnlist/level5|57|Swords Dance|Normal|Status|—|—|30}}
{{learnlist/level5|62|Hydro Pump|Water|Special|120|80|5||'''}}
{{learnlist/levelf|Samurott|Water|Water|5|5}}

====By [[TM]]/[[HM]]====
{{learnlist/tmh|Samurott|Water|Water|5|5}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM06|Toxic|Poison|Status|—|90|10}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM07|Hail|Ice|Status|—|—|10}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM10|Hidden Power|Normal|Special|—|100|15}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM12|Taunt|Dark|Status|—|100|20}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM13|Ice Beam|Ice|Special|95|100|10}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM14|Blizzard|Ice|Special|120|70|5}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM15|Hyper Beam|Normal|Special|150|90|5}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM17|Protect|Normal|Status|—|—|10}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM18|Rain Dance|Water|Status|—|—|5}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM21|Frustration|Normal|Physical|—|100|20}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM27|Return|Normal|Physical|—|100|20}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM28|Dig|Ground|Physical|80|100|10}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM32|Double Team|Normal|Status|—|—|15}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM40|Aerial Ace|Flying|Physical|60|—|20}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM42|Facade|Normal|Physical|70|100|20}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM44|Rest|Psychic|Status|—|—|10}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM45|Attract|Normal|Status|—|100|15}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM48|Round|Normal|Special|60|100|15}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM54|False Swipe|Normal|Physical|40|100|40}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM55|Scald|Water|Special|80|100|15||'''}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM56|Fling|Dark|Physical|—|100|10}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM67|Retaliate|Normal|Physical|70|100|5}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM68|Giga Impact|Normal|Physical|150|90|5}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM75|Swords Dance|Normal|Status|—|—|30}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM81|X-Scissor|Bug|Physical|80|100|15}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM82|Dragon Tail|Dragon|Physical|60|90|10}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM86|Grass Knot|Grass|Special|—|100|20}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM87|Swagger|Normal|Status|—|90|15}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM90|Substitute|Normal|Status|—|—|10}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM94|Rock Smash|Fighting|Physical|40|100|15}}
{{learnlist/tm5|HM01|Cut|Normal|Physical|50|95|30}}
{{learnlist/tm5|HM03|Surf|Water|Special|95|100|15||'''}}
{{learnlist/tm5|HM04|Strength|Normal|Physical|80|100|15}}
{{learnlist/tm5|HM05|Waterfall|Water|Physical|80|100|15||'''}}
{{learnlist/tm5|HM06|Dive|Water|Physical|80|100|10||'''}}
{{learnlist/tmf|Samurott|Water|Water|5|5}}

====By {{pkmn|breeding}}====
{{learnlist/breedh|Samurott|Water|Water|5|5}}
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|083|Farfetch'd}}{{MSP|527|Woobat}}{{MSP|528|Swoobat}}|Air Slash|Flying|Special|75|95|20||}}
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|019|Rattata}}{{MSP|020|Raticate}}{{MSP|052|Meowth}}{{MSP|053|Persian}}{{MSP|056|Mankey}}{{MSP|057|Primeape}} {{MSP|197|Umbreon}}{{MSP|203|Girafarig}}{{MSP|232|Donphan}}{{MSP|261|Poochyena}}{{MSP|262|Mightyena}}{{MSP|461|Weavile}} {{MSP|498|Tepig}}{{MSP|499|Pignite}}{{MSP|500|Emboar}}{{MSP|509|Purrloin}}{{MSP|510|Liepard}}{{MSP|527|Woobat}} {{MSP|528|Swoobat}}{{MSP|551|Sandile}}{{MSP|552|Krokorok}}{{MSP|553|Krookodile}}|Assurance|Dark|Physical|50|100|10||}}
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|086|Seel}}{{MSP|087|Dewgong}}{{MSP|320|Wailmer}}{{MSP|321|Wailord}}{{MSP|393|Piplup}}{{MSP|394|Prinplup}} {{MSP|395|Empoleon}}{{MSP|515|Panpour}}{{MSP|613|Cubchoo}}{{MSP|614|Beartic}}|Brine|Water|Special|65|100|10||||'''}}
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|300|Skitty}}{{MSP|327|Spinda}}|Copycat|Normal|Status|—|—|20||||}}
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|335|Zangoose}}{{MSP|359|Absol}}{{MSP|448|Lucario}}{{MSP|504|Patrat}}{{MSP|505|Watchog}}{{MSP|619|Mienfoo}} {{MSP|620|Mienshao}}|Detect|Fighting|Status|—|—|5||}}
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|051|Dugtrio}}{{MSP|052|Meowth}}{{MSP|053|Persian}}{{MSP|083|Farfetch'd}}{{MSP|336|Seviper}}{{MSP|359|Absol}} {{MSP|434|Stunky}}{{MSP|435|Skuntank}}{{MSP|461|Weavile}}{{MSP|509|Purrloin}}{{MSP|510|Liepard}}{{MSP|571|Zoroark}}|Night Slash|Dark|Physical|70|100|15||}}
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|023|Ekans}}{{MSP|024|Arbok}}{{MSP|052|Meowth}}{{MSP|053|Persian}}{{MSP|054|Psyduck}}{{MSP|055|Golduck}} {{MSP|056|Mankey}}{{MSP|057|Primeape}}{{MSP|190|Aipom}}{{MSP|424|Ambipom}}{{MSP|197|Umbreon}}{{MSP|206|Dunsparce}} {{MSP|215|Sneasel}}{{MSP|461|Weavile}}{{MSP|336|Seviper}}{{MSP|352|Kecleon}}{{MSP|434|Stunky}}{{MSP|435|Skuntank}}|Screech|Normal|Status|—|85|40||}}
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|133|Eevee}}|Trump Card|Normal|Special|—|—|5||||}}{{learnlist/breedf|Samurott|Water|Water|5|5}}

====By [[Move tutor|tutoring]]====
{{learnlist/tutorh|Samurott|water|water|5|5}}
{{learnlist/tutor5|Water Pledge|Water|Special|50|100|10||'''|yes}}
{{learnlist/tutor5|Hydro Cannon|Water|Special|150|90|5||'''|yes}}
{{learnlist/tutorf|Samurott|water|water|5|5}}

====By a prior [[evolution]]====
{{learnlist/prevoh|Samurott|water|water|5|5}}
{{learnlist/prevo5null}}
{{learnlist/prevof|Samurott|water|water|5|5}}

====Special moves====

===={{Trading Card Game}}-only moves====

===Side game data===
{{Sidegame|
type=Water |
ndex=503 |
rumble2=yes|
rumble2attack=3|
rumble2defense=3|
rumble2speed=3|
Pad2=He is the Area Keeper of the Cove Area. He is very calm and serious. All Pokémon in the Area respect him. |
Park2strong=[[File:Pikachu icon.png|link=Pikachu (Pokémon)]][[File:Snivy icon.png|link=Snivy (Pokémon)]] |
Park2weak=[[File:Oshawott icon.png|link=Oshawott (Pokémon)]][[File:Tepig icon.png|link=Tepig (Pokémon)]] |
}}

===Evolution===
{{evobox
|family=Normal
|sprite1=501
|name1=Oshawott
|type1-1=Water
|evotype1=Level
|level1=17
|sprite2=502
|name2=Dewott
|type1-2=Water
|evotype2=Level
|level2=36
|sprite3=503
|name3=Samurott
|type1-3=Water
}}

===Sprites===
{{Sprite |
type=water |
gen=5 |
gender=none |
name=Samurott |
ndex=503 |
}}

==Trivia==
* Samurott, {{p|Serperior}} and {{p|Emboar}} all share the same base stat total of 528.
* Samurott's evolutionary line and {{p|Turtwig}}'s evolutionary line are the only [[starter Pokémon]] evolutionary lines that share Hidden Abilities.

===Origin===
Samurott is based on a {{wp|sea lion}} with characteristics of a {{wp|samurai}} or {{wp|shogun}}.<ref>http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ds/interview/irbj/sp/index5.html</ref> Samurott's tail may be based on a {{wp|Japanese war fan}}. The "helmet" over its head is based on the ''{{wp|Murex altispira}}'' shell.

====Name origin====
Samurott's name comes from ''samurai'' and ''otter'' or ''water''. ''Daikenki'' seems to come from 大 ''dai'', meaning large, and 剣 ''ken'', meaning sword. Similarly 大剣 ''taiken'' also means large or long sword. The latter half of the name, ''kenki'', may also come from 剣鬼 – a word used to refer to a very skilled swordsman, literally meaning ''sword-wielding demon''. The 大 ''dai'' in Daikenki may imply a lineage within its final evolutionary line, with Samurott being the eldest of the brothers.

==In other languages==
{| align="left" class="roundy" style="border: 3px solid #{{Water color dark}}; background: #{{Water color}};"
|-
|
{| class="roundy" style="background: #{{Water color light}};"
|- align=center
! Language
! Name
! Name Origin
|- style="background:#FFF;"
| [[List of German Pokémon names|German]]
| Admurai
| From ''Admiral'' and ''Samurai''.
|- style="background:#FFF;"
| [[List of French Pokémon names|French]]
| Clamiral
|From ''clam'' and ''admiral''.
|- style="background:#FFF;"
| [[List of Korean Pokémon names|Korean]]
| 대검귀 ''Daegeomgwi''
| From its Japanese name.
|- style="background:#FFF;"
| [[List of Chinese Pokémon names|Chinese]] ({{tt|Mandarin|Taiwan and mainland China}})
| 大劍鬼 / 大剑鬼 ''Dàjiànguǐ''
| From its Japanese name.
|}
|-
|}
 

==Notes==
<references />

==External links==
*{{wp|Oshawott, Dewott, and Samurott|Article on Wikipedia}}

{{PokémonPrevNextFoot | prev=Dewott | next=Patrat | prevnum=502 | nextnum=504 | type=Water }}
{{-}}
{{Project Pokédex notice}}

[[de:Admurai]]
[[es:Samurott]]
[[fr:Clamiral]]
[[it:Samurott]]
[[ja:ダイケンキ]]
[[pl:Samurott]]
[[pt:Samurott (pokémon)]]

Samurott (Pokémon)

2012-03-29T01:38:31Z

Grei: /* Habitat */

{{PokémonPrevNext | prev=Dewott | next=Patrat | prevnum=502 | nextnum=504 | type=Water }}
{{PokémonInfobox|
name=Samurott |
jname=ダイケンキ|
tmname=Daikenki |
size=184px|
art=BW|
pron=<sc>''{{{pron|sah-mu-rawt}}}''</sc> |
species=Formidable|
typen=1 |
type1=Water |
abilityn=1 |
ability1=Torrent |
abilityd=Shell Armor |
ndex=503 |
udex=009 |
height-ftin=4'11" |
height-m=1.5 |
weight-lbs=208.6 |
weight-kg=94.6 |
egggroupn=1 |
egggroup1=Field |
evsa=3|
egggroup2= |
eggcycles=20 |
expyield=238 |
lv100exp=1,059,860 |
gendercode=31 |
color=Blue |
catchrate=45 |
body=08|
pokefordex=samurott |
generation=5 |
footnotes=}}
'''Samurott''' ([[List of Japanese Pokémon names|Japanese]]: '''ダイケンキ''' ''Daikenki'') is a {{type2|Water}} Pokémon.

It evolves from {{p|Dewott}} starting at [[level]] 36. It is the final form of {{p|Oshawott}}.

==Biology==
[[File:Unova starters evolution artwork.png|left|thumb|200px|Poster showing Samurott standing on its hind legs and carrying its unsheathed sword]]
===Physiology===
Samurott is a quadruped, blue sea lion-like Pokémon. Long, white whiskers extend from its snout and head, and on the back of its head is a large, rounded beige helmet-like shell with spikes and a spear-like, pointed protrusion in the front. Its underbelly is covered by a dull bluish gray seashell-like carapace, and its limbs are covered with beige, sectioned bracer-like coverings, looking as if comprised of seashells with the forelimbs’ bracers being the swords called [[scalchop|ashigatana]] that it uses in battle. The lower two segments of these bracers are the scabbards for the two swords. The upper segment and spike make up the ashigatana and its handle, respectively. Samurott possess three navy digits on each limb, and a fin-like, splayed tail with the innermost section being beige like the seashell-like portions of its body.

====Gender differences====
None.

===Special abilities===
Part of the armor on its forefeet is a sword; one swing of it can beat opponents. It can silence foes with its glare alone and can dominate foes simply by howling. When in battle, Samurott can stand on its hind legs and use one of its blades as a sword to fight.

===Behavior===
It glares and howls at opponents to silence and dominate them.

===Habitat===
As Samurott is a Water-type, it can be found by the water. However, as a mammalian Pokemon it lives on land.

===Diet===

==In the anime==
[[File:Leeku Samurott.png|thumb|right|Samurott in the anime]]

===Major appearances===

===Minor appearances===
A Samurott appeared in ''[[M14|White—Victini and Zekrom and Black—Victini and Reshiram]]'', under the ownership of [[Leeku]]. It fought and lost to [[Ash's Tepig]] in a tournament in [[Eindoak Town]], after Tepig received a power boost from [[Victini (movie 14)|Victini]]'s powers.

==In the manga==

==In the TCG==
{{main|Samurott (TCG)}}

==Game data==

===Pokédex entries===
{{Dex
|type=Water
|gen=5
|blackdex=One swing of the sword incorporated in its armor can fell an opponent. A simple glare from one of them quiets everybody.
|whitedex=Part of the armor on its anterior legs becomes a giant sword. Its cry alone is enough to intimidate most enemies.
}}

===Game locations===
{{Availability|
type=water|
gen=5 |
bwrarity=None|
bwarea=Evolve {{p|Dewott}}
}}

====In side games====
{{SidegameAvail
|type=water
|rumble2=Beach: [[World Axle - B1F]]
|pokepark2=[[Cove Area]]
}}

===Held items===

===Stats===
====Base stats====
{{Base stats
|HP=95
|Attack=100
|Defense=85
|SpAtk=108
|SpDef=70
|Speed=70
|type=Water}}

===Type effectiveness===
{{Type effectiveness|
type1=water|
Normal= 100 |
Fighting=100 |
Flying= 100 |
Poison= 100 |
Ground= 100 |
Rock= 100 |
Bug= 100 |
Ghost= 100 |
Steel= 50 |

Fire= 50 |
Water= 50 |
Grass= 200 |
Electric=200 |
Psychic= 100 |
Ice= 50 |
Dragon= 100 |
Dark= 100 }}

===Learnset===
====By [[Level|leveling up]]====
{{learnlist/levelh|Samurott|Water|Water|5|5}}
{{learnlist/level5|Start|Megahorn|Bug|Physical|120|85|10}}
{{learnlist/level5|Start|Tackle|Normal|Physical|50|100|35}}
{{learnlist/level5|Start|Tail Whip|Normal|Status|—|100|30}}
{{learnlist/level5|Start|Water Gun|Water|Special|40|100|25||'''}}
{{learnlist/level5|Start|Water Sport|Water|Status|—|—|15}}
{{learnlist/level5|5|Tail Whip|Normal|Status|—|100|30}}
{{learnlist/level5|7|Water Gun|Water|Special|40|100|25||'''}}
{{learnlist/level5|11|Water Sport|Water|Status|—|—|15}}
{{learnlist/level5|13|Focus Energy|Normal|Status|—|—|30}}
{{learnlist/level5|17|Razor Shell|Water|Physical|75|95|10||'''}}
{{learnlist/level5|20|Fury Cutter|Bug|Physical|20|95|20}}
{{learnlist/level5|25|Water Pulse|Water|Special|60|100|20||'''}}
{{learnlist/level5|28|Revenge|Fighting|Physical|60|100|10}}
{{learnlist/level5|33|Aqua Jet|Water|Physical|40|100|20||'''}}
{{learnlist/level5|36|Slash|Normal|Physical|70|100|20}}
{{learnlist/level5|38|Encore|Normal|Status|—|100|5}}
{{learnlist/level5|45|Aqua Tail|Water|Physical|90|90|10||'''}}
{{learnlist/level5|50|Retaliate|Normal|Physical|70|100|5}}
{{learnlist/level5|57|Swords Dance|Normal|Status|—|—|30}}
{{learnlist/level5|62|Hydro Pump|Water|Special|120|80|5||'''}}
{{learnlist/levelf|Samurott|Water|Water|5|5}}

====By [[TM]]/[[HM]]====
{{learnlist/tmh|Samurott|Water|Water|5|5}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM06|Toxic|Poison|Status|—|90|10}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM07|Hail|Ice|Status|—|—|10}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM10|Hidden Power|Normal|Special|—|100|15}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM12|Taunt|Dark|Status|—|100|20}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM13|Ice Beam|Ice|Special|95|100|10}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM14|Blizzard|Ice|Special|120|70|5}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM15|Hyper Beam|Normal|Special|150|90|5}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM17|Protect|Normal|Status|—|—|10}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM18|Rain Dance|Water|Status|—|—|5}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM21|Frustration|Normal|Physical|—|100|20}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM27|Return|Normal|Physical|—|100|20}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM28|Dig|Ground|Physical|80|100|10}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM32|Double Team|Normal|Status|—|—|15}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM40|Aerial Ace|Flying|Physical|60|—|20}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM42|Facade|Normal|Physical|70|100|20}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM44|Rest|Psychic|Status|—|—|10}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM45|Attract|Normal|Status|—|100|15}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM48|Round|Normal|Special|60|100|15}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM54|False Swipe|Normal|Physical|40|100|40}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM55|Scald|Water|Special|80|100|15||'''}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM56|Fling|Dark|Physical|—|100|10}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM67|Retaliate|Normal|Physical|70|100|5}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM68|Giga Impact|Normal|Physical|150|90|5}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM75|Swords Dance|Normal|Status|—|—|30}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM81|X-Scissor|Bug|Physical|80|100|15}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM82|Dragon Tail|Dragon|Physical|60|90|10}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM86|Grass Knot|Grass|Special|—|100|20}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM87|Swagger|Normal|Status|—|90|15}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM90|Substitute|Normal|Status|—|—|10}}
{{learnlist/tm5|TM94|Rock Smash|Fighting|Physical|40|100|15}}
{{learnlist/tm5|HM01|Cut|Normal|Physical|50|95|30}}
{{learnlist/tm5|HM03|Surf|Water|Special|95|100|15||'''}}
{{learnlist/tm5|HM04|Strength|Normal|Physical|80|100|15}}
{{learnlist/tm5|HM05|Waterfall|Water|Physical|80|100|15||'''}}
{{learnlist/tm5|HM06|Dive|Water|Physical|80|100|10||'''}}
{{learnlist/tmf|Samurott|Water|Water|5|5}}

====By {{pkmn|breeding}}====
{{learnlist/breedh|Samurott|Water|Water|5|5}}
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|083|Farfetch'd}}{{MSP|527|Woobat}}{{MSP|528|Swoobat}}|Air Slash|Flying|Special|75|95|20||}}
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|019|Rattata}}{{MSP|020|Raticate}}{{MSP|052|Meowth}}{{MSP|053|Persian}}{{MSP|056|Mankey}}{{MSP|057|Primeape}} {{MSP|197|Umbreon}}{{MSP|203|Girafarig}}{{MSP|232|Donphan}}{{MSP|261|Poochyena}}{{MSP|262|Mightyena}}{{MSP|461|Weavile}} {{MSP|498|Tepig}}{{MSP|499|Pignite}}{{MSP|500|Emboar}}{{MSP|509|Purrloin}}{{MSP|510|Liepard}}{{MSP|527|Woobat}} {{MSP|528|Swoobat}}{{MSP|551|Sandile}}{{MSP|552|Krokorok}}{{MSP|553|Krookodile}}|Assurance|Dark|Physical|50|100|10||}}
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|086|Seel}}{{MSP|087|Dewgong}}{{MSP|320|Wailmer}}{{MSP|321|Wailord}}{{MSP|393|Piplup}}{{MSP|394|Prinplup}} {{MSP|395|Empoleon}}{{MSP|515|Panpour}}{{MSP|613|Cubchoo}}{{MSP|614|Beartic}}|Brine|Water|Special|65|100|10||||'''}}
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|300|Skitty}}{{MSP|327|Spinda}}|Copycat|Normal|Status|—|—|20||||}}
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|335|Zangoose}}{{MSP|359|Absol}}{{MSP|448|Lucario}}{{MSP|504|Patrat}}{{MSP|505|Watchog}}{{MSP|619|Mienfoo}} {{MSP|620|Mienshao}}|Detect|Fighting|Status|—|—|5||}}
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|051|Dugtrio}}{{MSP|052|Meowth}}{{MSP|053|Persian}}{{MSP|083|Farfetch'd}}{{MSP|336|Seviper}}{{MSP|359|Absol}} {{MSP|434|Stunky}}{{MSP|435|Skuntank}}{{MSP|461|Weavile}}{{MSP|509|Purrloin}}{{MSP|510|Liepard}}{{MSP|571|Zoroark}}|Night Slash|Dark|Physical|70|100|15||}}
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|023|Ekans}}{{MSP|024|Arbok}}{{MSP|052|Meowth}}{{MSP|053|Persian}}{{MSP|054|Psyduck}}{{MSP|055|Golduck}} {{MSP|056|Mankey}}{{MSP|057|Primeape}}{{MSP|190|Aipom}}{{MSP|424|Ambipom}}{{MSP|197|Umbreon}}{{MSP|206|Dunsparce}} {{MSP|215|Sneasel}}{{MSP|461|Weavile}}{{MSP|336|Seviper}}{{MSP|352|Kecleon}}{{MSP|434|Stunky}}{{MSP|435|Skuntank}}|Screech|Normal|Status|—|85|40||}}
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|133|Eevee}}|Trump Card|Normal|Special|—|—|5||||}}{{learnlist/breedf|Samurott|Water|Water|5|5}}

====By [[Move tutor|tutoring]]====
{{learnlist/tutorh|Samurott|water|water|5|5}}
{{learnlist/tutor5|Water Pledge|Water|Special|50|100|10||'''|yes}}
{{learnlist/tutor5|Hydro Cannon|Water|Special|150|90|5||'''|yes}}
{{learnlist/tutorf|Samurott|water|water|5|5}}

====By a prior [[evolution]]====
{{learnlist/prevoh|Samurott|water|water|5|5}}
{{learnlist/prevo5null}}
{{learnlist/prevof|Samurott|water|water|5|5}}

====Special moves====

===={{Trading Card Game}}-only moves====

===Side game data===
{{Sidegame|
type=Water |
ndex=503 |
rumble2=yes|
rumble2attack=3|
rumble2defense=3|
rumble2speed=3|
Pad2=He is the Area Keeper of the Cove Area. He is very calm and serious. All Pokémon in the Area respect him. |
Park2strong=[[File:Pikachu icon.png|link=Pikachu (Pokémon)]][[File:Snivy icon.png|link=Snivy (Pokémon)]] |
Park2weak=[[File:Oshawott icon.png|link=Oshawott (Pokémon)]][[File:Tepig icon.png|link=Tepig (Pokémon)]] |
}}

===Evolution===
{{evobox
|family=Normal
|sprite1=501
|name1=Oshawott
|type1-1=Water
|evotype1=Level
|level1=17
|sprite2=502
|name2=Dewott
|type1-2=Water
|evotype2=Level
|level2=36
|sprite3=503
|name3=Samurott
|type1-3=Water
}}

===Sprites===
{{Sprite |
type=water |
gen=5 |
gender=none |
name=Samurott |
ndex=503 |
}}

==Trivia==
* Samurott, {{p|Serperior}} and {{p|Emboar}} all share the same base stat total of 528.
* Samurott's evolutionary line and {{p|Turtwig}}'s evolutionary line are the only [[starter Pokémon]] evolutionary lines that share Hidden Abilities.

===Origin===
Samurott is based on a {{wp|sea lion}} with characteristics of a {{wp|samurai}} or {{wp|shogun}}.<ref>http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ds/interview/irbj/sp/index5.html</ref> Samurott's tail may be based on a {{wp|Japanese war fan}}. The "helmet" over its head is based on the ''{{wp|Murex altispira}}'' shell.

====Name origin====
Samurott's name comes from ''samurai'' and ''otter'' or ''water''. ''Daikenki'' seems to come from 大 ''dai'', meaning large, and 剣 ''ken'', meaning sword. Similarly 大剣 ''taiken'' also means large or long sword. The latter half of the name, ''kenki'', may also come from 剣鬼 – a word used to refer to a very skilled swordsman, literally meaning ''sword-wielding demon''. The 大 ''dai'' in Daikenki may imply a lineage within its final evolutionary line, with Samurott being the eldest of the brothers.

==In other languages==
{| align="left" class="roundy" style="border: 3px solid #{{Water color dark}}; background: #{{Water color}};"
|-
|
{| class="roundy" style="background: #{{Water color light}};"
|- align=center
! Language
! Name
! Name Origin
|- style="background:#FFF;"
| [[List of German Pokémon names|German]]
| Admurai
| From ''Admiral'' and ''Samurai''.
|- style="background:#FFF;"
| [[List of French Pokémon names|French]]
| Clamiral
|From ''clam'' and ''admiral''.
|- style="background:#FFF;"
| [[List of Korean Pokémon names|Korean]]
| 대검귀 ''Daegeomgwi''
| From its Japanese name.
|- style="background:#FFF;"
| [[List of Chinese Pokémon names|Chinese]] ({{tt|Mandarin|Taiwan and mainland China}})
| 大劍鬼 / 大剑鬼 ''Dàjiànguǐ''
| From its Japanese name.
|}
|-
|}
 

==Notes==
<references />

==External links==
*{{wp|Oshawott, Dewott, and Samurott|Article on Wikipedia}}

{{PokémonPrevNextFoot | prev=Dewott | next=Patrat | prevnum=502 | nextnum=504 | type=Water }}
{{-}}
{{Project Pokédex notice}}

[[de:Admurai]]
[[es:Samurott]]
[[fr:Clamiral]]
[[it:Samurott]]
[[ja:ダイケンキ]]
[[pl:Samurott]]
[[pt:Samurott (pokémon)]]

Talk:Hilbert (game)

2011-08-08T21:30:15Z

Grei: /* Battle Subway team information */ new section

==Permission==
to add Kanoko Town as starting town?--[[User:Phantomjunkie|Phantom]][[User talk:Phantomjunkie|Junkie]] 15:04, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

== Speculation? ==

Has it been confirmed that he will get a gift from Professor Araragi, what if he gets it from his family? --[[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']]''' 12:08, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
:Actually, it's confirmed that the gift is from his family. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 12:28, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

== Default name? ==

I keep seeing his name being defaulted as Touya (ジュン), apparently from the Battle Subway as a tag-battle partner. Does anyone have any confirmation so we can move it or not? [[User:Pocketfanmk|Pocketfanmk]] 00:21, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
:Protip: your Japanese says "Jun."
:His Pixiv tag is at "Touya," and White's is at "Touko," but I believe we're waiting until we can see it first-hand before moving. [[User:Umeko|梅子]][[User talk:Umeko|❀]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|✿]] 00:22, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

OOPS! I meant トウヤ! Wonder how that happened. But I just want someone to do that Battle Subway so we can get some kind of confirmation. [[User:Pocketfanmk|Pocketfanmk]] 00:30, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
:Me too. My *ekhm* game crashes at Battle Subway. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 14:11, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Touya and Touko are added IN the articles, but the article is not moved itself. Is there any evidence? I'd kinda like the page to be moved if its confirmed, or to have the names taken out of the article, if not? [[User:Pocketfanmk|Pocketfanmk]] 04:35, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

== Tōya/Tōko confirmation ==

Not a straight-from-game one but [http://pokemon.maruamyu.net/data/bw/btl_subway.html here is the full Battle Subway Trainer List from BW]. Tōya and Tōko are there on the very bottom, next to the Subway Masters. The number next to them stand for [http://pokemon.maruamyu.net/data/bw/btl_subway_poke.html the Pokémon that they use]. I think the pages should be moved now. The problem is - our current Romanization standard. MoS says to use Hepburn (hence, Tōya and Tōko) but I got recently scolded by Maverick Nate that I shouldn't use macrons. Can someone tell me what the hell is going on with the Romanizations here? --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 08:32, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

== English names from demos ==

According to demos for Black and White, Touya is supposedly called "Blair". His female counterpart, Touko, is named "Whitlea". To avoid problems, I think its safe to protect both pages for now, but what do I know. -[[User:Ninterror|Ninterror]] 15:36, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
:Chances are that these names are just for the demos (being Black/White-based) and the NPC names from Battle Subway will be different. But even if it's the case, these names still deserve a mention in Trivia section, in my opinion. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 15:44, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
::I also think it should be added in Trivia that in demos he was named Blair (an infinitely better name, at that). It's mentioned that fans referred to him as Black, so if that deserves a mention, so too does his demo name. --[[User:SpeedSuicune|SpeedSuicune]] 21:14, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

== Kuro ==

On several pages on www.pokemonblackwhite.com, Touya is named Kuro. I am unsure if this means that it is the official name or not, but whatever it is, it is a new name, and is about as viable as Blair. [[User:TorchicBlaziken|TorchicBlaziken]] ([[User_talk:TorchicBlaziken|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/TorchicBlaziken|edits]]) 00:12, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
:Like {{tt|Blair|Isn't this a girl's name?}}, is most likely the name they chose for the player, not the character himself. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 00:15, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

== Miracle Launcher ==

Could someone change the link in the sprite box from "Miracle Shooter" to "Miracle Launcher"? [[User:ShinyPikachu|Shiny]][[Pikachu (Pokémon)|Pikachu]] 14:03, 20 February 2011 (UTC)
:Wonder Launcher, I think. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 14:27, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

== Trivia ==

Do you really think that we need to put that his hat has a Pokéball on it? [[User:Mesuxelf|Mesprit]], [[User talk:Mesuxelf|Uxie]], [[User:Mesuxelf|Azelf]]. Mesuxelf 14:42, 20 February 2011 (UTC)
:That's not what it says. It says that if you look from the sky, his hat will resemble a Pokeball [[User:Ataro|Ataro]] 14:45, 20 February 2011 (UTC)
::What do you mean, look from the sky?[[User:Mesuxelf|Mesprit]], [[User talk:Mesuxelf|Uxie]], [[User:Mesuxelf|Azelf]]. Mesuxelf 14:49, 20 February 2011 (UTC)
:::If you look at his hat from above [[User:Ataro|Ataro]] 15:01, 20 February 2011 (UTC)
::::If it were worded "From a bird's-eye-view", it would be easier to understand. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * [[User talk:ArcToraphim|the Arc Toraph]] 00:18, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

== Nuvema Town is Kanoko Town ==
Someone needs to change in Touya's information that he starts in Nuvema Town, '''NOT''' Kanoko Town. Would Someone please change it?--[[User:Pokemon26|Pokemon26]] 00:06, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

== Hilbert and Hilda ==

[http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/3391/hilbertd.jpg 1] [http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/8830/hilda.jpg 2]... --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 08:30, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
:Do those come from actual gameplay footage or another one of TPCi's videos/images? --[[User:HoennMaster|Hoenn]][[User talk:HoennMaster|Master]] 20:43, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
::Either one doesn't matter, that's their appearance in the Battle Subway. Same place we got Touko and Touya.
::I LOVED THE NAME BLAIR SO MUCH [[User:Reign|Reign]] 21:11, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

== Overworld Sprite? ==

Can someone add and overworld sprite for Hilbert into the sprites table? Hilda's got hers in but none for Hilbert [[File:GenV.player.front.png‎]]
:That's a beta sprite. Well, it's not really that different, but it looses quality due to just being taken from an early screenshot rather than actually ripped form the game. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 11:01, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

== Battle Subway team information ==

Is there any way at all that Hilbert's (and Hilda's) list of available Battle Subway Pokemon can be placed into little hidden tags, similar to how the rivals teams are hidden? Scrolling the page is more of a hassle with all of them displayed. [[User:Grei|Grei]] 21:30, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Talk:Legendary Pokémon/Archive2

2011-06-04T06:34:58Z

Grei: /* Zekrom and Reshiram: "Constant Conflict?" No. */

[[Talk:Legendary Pokémon/Archive1|Archive #1]]

== WTF? ==

Giratina controls dimensions? That's stupid... can somebody remove that? Time and Space (depth, lengh and width) are the freaking dimensions everyone! So Giratina has more power than both Dialga and Palkia? I think not. Remember that Giratina lives in the Distortion World... a place that disobeys the laws of Time and Space. '''[[User:Hfc2x|hfc]][[User talk:Hfc2x|2X]]''' 22:26, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

There are 2 types of dimensions, matematical, which you were talking about, and spacial, which would be under Giratina's control. If you don't belive me, look up "Plane (metaphysics)" on Wikipedia. The dimensions that Giratina controls are '''alternate planes of exictence''', also called '''dimensions'''!- ''unsigned comment from {{u|GuyNamedSean}} ([[User talk:GuyNamedSean|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/GuyNamedSean|contribs]]){{ #if: | {{{2}}} |}}''
:It seems that Giratina can control gravity, or atleast that is how I enterpreted the explanation of its form shift. It also makes some sense because gravity could be considered a third factor in time-space [[User:Enigmaberry|Enigmaberry]] 02:29, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

:I agree with hfc2X, this needs to be changed. It was never officially stated anywhere that Giratina controls dimensions or anything at all, really. If you guys are going to write up fan speculation, you can at least, you know, actually make a note of that. [[User:Marlowe|Marlowe]] 02:17, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

:An additional note, after editing the page a few times I noticed that only established users are allowed to make changes, my mistake there. Still, this needs to be changed for accuracy. [[User:Marlowe|Marlowe]] 02:30, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
::You do realize that this talk section is from BEFORE Platinum was released in English, right? '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 02:34, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
::What does that have to do with anything? Whether it's from one day or even five years ago, it doesn't change the fact that a change still needs to be made. As an encyclopedia, this doesn't need fanon crap. [[User:Marlowe|Marlowe]] 02:36, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
:::Because Platinum confirmed it. Duh. '''~ platinum[[User:Sol|s]][[User talk:Sol|o]][[Special:Contributions/Sol|l]]''' 02:37, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
::::Prove it, then. [[User:Marlowe|Marlowe]] 02:38, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
:::::Disprove it, then. '''~ platinum[[User:Sol|s]][[User talk:Sol|o]][[Special:Contributions/Sol|l]]''' 02:39, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
::::::It is also said in the Distortion World by Cyrus about Giratina's control over dimensions...I'm way, way ahead of that, otherwise I'd give you the exact quote.--[[User:PsychicRider|'''Psychic''']][[User talk:PsychicRider|'''Rider''']]''''[[Special:Contributions/PsychicRider|'''☮''']]'' 02:39, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
:::::My bad. I forgot. Giratina can't go between dimensions, or drag people into the Distorted World, or anything like that. Sorry. I guess it has no real power. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 02:40, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
:::::::Spare me the reverse psychology, Sol, you said that Platinum confirmed it and I'm telling you to point to me where that was specifically confirmed. You're the one making false claims, not me. It was never stated that Giratina controls dimensions, this is FAN SPECULATION which is something that Bulbapedia frowns on if I'm not mistaken. At least it's something they should be frowning upon. [[User:Marlowe|Marlowe]] 02:45, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
::::::::If you can't prove that it hasn't been proved, then it's useless to try and say that it's fan speculation. PsychicRider has confirmed it, so no, it's not fan speculation. '''~ platinum[[User:Sol|s]][[User talk:Sol|o]][[Special:Contributions/Sol|l]]''' 02:46, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
:::::::::Quit acting like a politician and disprove it. You're avoiding what somebody tells you that goes against what you're trying to say. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 02:49, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
:Sol, you're the one who's in a position to prove something, not me. I basically asked "Where was that confirmed?" and you've yet to answer that question. I would like the specific quote of Cyrus stating this, though, as I don't recall it. [[User:Marlowe|Marlowe]] 02:53, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
::I'm way past that, as in Battle Frontier past, but I do remember that it is confirmed from Cyrus's dialogue. --[[User:PsychicRider|'''Psychic''']][[User talk:PsychicRider|'''Rider''']]''''[[Special:Contributions/PsychicRider|'''☮''']]'' 02:59, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
:::So I'm apparently supposed to conveniently be at the point in time where Cyrus says that specific quote. '''~ platinum[[User:Sol|s]][[User talk:Sol|o]][[Special:Contributions/Sol|l]]''' 03:02, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
::::No, this isn't a perfect quote, but: "Hmm... so Giratina disappeared into the real world... it doesn't matter. I'll capture it, and then I'll use the dimensional powers of Giratina to form a new world here and destroy the real one." '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 03:06, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
:::::I believe that's the quote I was looking for...boys, we have our proof. :D. --[[User:PsychicRider|'''Psychic''']][[User talk:PsychicRider|'''Rider''']]''''[[Special:Contributions/PsychicRider|'''☮''']]'' 03:08, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

:::::In that case (if that was explicitly stated), I stand corrected. Thanks. [[User:Marlowe|Marlowe]] 03:10, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
::::::Don't mention it. It only took me 30 minutes to think of. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 03:13, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

:Not to sound like a broken record here, but I've just gotten through the Distortion World on my second run-through and Cyrus doesn't make that statement anywhere. I even saved right before the battle with Giratina to see what Cyrus would say in both scenarios (catching Giratina or defeating it), but the dialogue only changes slightly and there's still no explicit mention of it having control over dimensions. Besides, aren't space and time dimensions as well? Judging from some of the official interviews on Giratina I've just read, I'm more inclined to say that Giratina simply controls antimatter. If I'm not mistaken, antimatter IS considered to be the third factor out of time and space, after all. I propose that we take "dimensions" out of the sentence. [[User:Marlowe|Marlowe]] 08:22, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
::I watched a Youtube video and saw the same thing. But no. Dimensions isn't coming out. The descriptions aren't just for the games, but also the anime/movies you have to remember. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 12:30, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

== Bubbly Mew ==

Wherever I go, whatever I read that's about Mew or the first movie, it says something like "The Bubbly Mew appeared in the first move", or something like that. Now, why is it called "Bubbly Mew" and why is it just the Mew in the first movie? And where did that term of Bubbly Mew ever come from?--[[User:Dragonbeastx|DRAGON]][[User talk:Dragonbeastx|BEAST]][[User:Dragonbeastx/The Aura Spot|X]] 22:25, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
:Maybe it's that the Mew in the first movie enjoyed making bubbles. [[user:Simpsonsdude13| SD13 Simpsondude13>''']][[user talk:Simpsonsdude13|SD13 Talk]] 20:44, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
==Phione?==
Does Phione really count? And why not Unown? I always thought of the symbols as legends. Me and my fellow torchics agree on this - Sk8torchic
:Phione counts because to get one you have to breed a legendary. Unown doesn't because it's extremely distant from any other legendary. Note the beasts and the birds. Sure they're separated by the powerhouses and events by Dratini and Larvitar's families, but they're next to each other and divided from the others by no more than three Pokémon. Unown has 50 down and 42 up. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 23:41, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
::So all legends have to be near each other in the pokedex? Since when? Me and my fellow torchics agree on this - Sk8torchic 16:07, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

:::Besides, nobody would buy Unown being legendary, what with how they're found all over the place in the [[Ruins of Alph]], [[Tanoby Chambers]], and [[Solaceon Ruins]]. Trust me, in the time it takes to breed for one Phione, odds are one could catch 2 PC boxes entirely full of Unown (although there's no guarantee that all 28 forms would be included)...--[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 16:54, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

== Can we really stop saying that Rayquaza is based on a Ziz ==

It really isn't. The closest thing we have to a bird whose wingspan is large enough to block out the sun is Lugia, atleast according to the accounts of an elderly NPC in Ecruteak city.--[[User:Outrage DD|Outrage DD]] 22:05, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
:Well, Groudon isn't a giant hippo...elephant...rhino...''thing''...—[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 23:56, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
::They are both based on the concept of these legendary creatures. Masters of the sky and land respectivly.--[[User:MisterE13|Mister]][[User talk:MisterE13|'''E''']][[Special:Contributions/MisterE13|13]] 00:43, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

== Info ==
Why is {{P|Rotom}} not a legendary?, I'm not complaining, I just want to know why.[[User:Pokemonguy1|Pokemonguy1]] 18:28, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
: *[[Talk:Rotom_(Pok%C3%A9mon)/Archive_1|slaps with a wet Magikarp]]* Archives are your friends. — [[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|THE TROM]] — 01:46, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

because it doesn't have monster stats--[[User:Pokemongirl1|PG1 FTW!]] 15:25, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

:Neither does {{p|Phione}}, and yet it's still a Legendary. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 19:17, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

::That's because {{p|Manaphy|a legendary is needed to obtain it}}. --'''[[User:Theryguy512|Theryguy]][[User Talk:Theryguy512|512]]''' 19:40, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
:::Just a reminder that this is a forums topic.... o_0 Go there, peeps. — [[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|THE TROM]] — 09:38, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

All you need to do to catch it is to press a on a tv during night time. to get a phione, like it was said before, you need to have manaphy and breed it. --[[User:Usyflad10|Usyflad10]] ([[User talk:Usyflad10|talk]]) 23:35, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Rotom can breed; legendary Pokemon cannot. Manaphy being the exception but it's more of a 'novelty' that it produces Phione when it lays an egg. [[User:Bttsstewart|Bttsstewart]] 03:02, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

== Legendary Pokémon group picture ==

I made this: [http://student-kmt.hku.nl/~abel1/PF2pictures/Legendary%20Pok%e9mon.jpg]

I think it'll be nice if it was placed in this article, next to (or instead of) that Entei pic.

Greetz,
Abel
:It's nice really but the thing is that the Johto legends will be getting new artworks soon and, maybe, the admins might not like the signature on the upper right. Also, Deoxys is actually shorter than Mewtwo. [[User:Tc26/Anime Predictions|tc]][[User:Tc26|²₆]][[User talk:Tc26|tc]][[User:Tc26/Sandbox|26]] 12:33, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
::Just a reminder that fan art, I think, is generally frowned on. While that is very impressive, we can't use it here. — [[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|THE TROM]] — 21:06, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

== Latios and Latias ==

So I know that the current pic is better than the last, but I'm pretty sure it's {{tt|fan made.|Copyright info doesn't make it official... it only makes the claim that somebody owns the rights to characters...}} And we aren't supposed to have fan pics on pages. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 21:06, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
:Are you sure about that? That's the same font the Pokémon Company uses, it's in Sugimori's style, ''and'' it has his {{wp|Seal (East Asia)|hanko}} on it...—[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 22:31, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

::{{tt|Who's the girl though?|forgot about this since the database was locked at the time...}} '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 21:09, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
:::Beats me. But that's definitely official. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 21:21, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Latios and Latias should be jhoto legendaries because the movie takes place in jhoto.
[[User:JetanHertz13|JetanHertz13]] 00:18, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
::That's... nice? If you join in a conversation that's like... 5 months old, at least add something important. [[User:The Dark Fiddler|The Dark Fiddler]] - [[User talk:The Dark Fiddler|You enter a poorly lit room...]] 00:54, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
:::Latios and Latias appear in a Johto-era movie because they needed to hype up Hoenn. Der. The Eon duo don't even appear in Johto in HGSS, they're roaming Kanto! And it's '''''JOHTO''''', not Jhoto. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 00:27, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Since Heatran being the first with a variable gender is mentioned, shouldn't it be mentioned that they were the first legendaries to have genders? [[User:Goldenpelt|Goldenpelt]] 08:09, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

== Protection Error? ==

Isn't this page protected? I had no problem editing it, and I'm no admin. --[[User:CuboneKing|CUBONE PWNS]] ([[User talk:CuboneKing|Planet Cubone]] • [[Special:Contributions/CuboneKing|Bone Club]]) [[Cubone (Pokémon)|THE VERY BEST PAGE!]] 20:28, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
:New users are blocked from editing (which, at the current state of the wiki does nothing). Only admins may move the page, though. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 20:31, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
::Ohhhhhhhhh... NOW I get it... --[[User:CuboneKing|CUBONE PWNS]] ([[User talk:CuboneKing|Planet Cubone]] • [[Special:Contributions/CuboneKing|Bone Club]]) [[Cubone (Pokémon)|THE VERY BEST PAGE!]] 20:35, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

== Trivia: Legendary Pokémon Themes ==

It should be noted that in the upcoming games, HeartGold and SoulSilver, that Lugia and Ho-Oh now both have their own, distinct themes in the upcoming games. It was confirmed on the "never before seen footage" on Pokémon Sunday where they revealed meeting Lugia and Ho-Oh in the games. :) From the small clips you can hear, Ho-Oh's theme seems to be very Japanese-percussion based (taiko drums) and Lugia's is very orchestral-dramatics based. {{unsigned|Gimmetokyo}}

I wonder if it's also pertinent to mention that the legendary beasts in HG/SS technically have their own unique themes, as well - or perhaps it would be more accurate to say that they have their own unique remixes of a theme. Either way, their battle music in HG/SS is not shared (identically, at any rate) with any other Pokemon. --[[User:Xatni|Xatni]] 01:07, 2 June 2010 (UTC)Xatni

== New article ==
Since the Legendary Trios and Duos have articles, should the Legendarys without a group (Trio Master's not included) get there own article too? {{unsigned|Blackstone Dresden}}

:If you mean Legendaries like {{p|Mew}}, {{p|Celebi}}, and {{p|Manaphy}}, then no. What would we write that isn't already on their own pages? '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 04:16, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

== Arceus HGSS pic ==

[[Image:Arceus - HGSS Event Artwork.jpg|thumb|left|150px]]
 How about adding it? -- [[User:RikkiKitsune|R<s>ikki</s>]][[User talk:RikkiKitsune|Kitsune]] 21:26, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

If I could, I would!--[[User:The Bulb's Master|The Bulb's Master]] 12:45, 13 August 2009 (UTC) Master of Bulbasaur and Turtwig♀

:I didn't place that one since one for the Azure Flute event would be better. It would be similar to Darkrai and Shaymin. [[User:Tc26/Anime Predictions|tc]][[User:Tc26|²₆]][[User talk:Tc26|tc]][[User:Tc26/Sandbox|26]] 12:49, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

::I'll put it in for now. We can always change it when the Flute event gets its own artwork. We're using the HGSS Beasts artwork aren't we? '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 16:25, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

== Edit! ==
I can't edit, but one of you should include that they can be found in Sinnoh.--[[User:The Bulb's Master|The Bulb's Master]] 12:44, 13 August 2009 (UTC) Master of Bulbasaur and Turtwig♀

== "Legendary" ==
Is the term "legendary" an official descriptor or one applied by the fandom? [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 23:55, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
:Its official. It appears in the games, anime, and all sorts of sources. It even appears in some Pokédex entries. '''[[User:Blake|Blake]]''' [[User talk:Blake#top|Talk]]·[[Special:Contributions/Blake|Edits]] 01:38, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
::Yeah, I've been playing Blue and the first instance of the term "legendary Pokemon" is on Route 14 by a Bird Keeper, for future reference. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 03:45, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

==[[Arcanine]]==
"If you were looking for the "Legendary Pokémon" species, see Arcanine (Pokémon). "
Why does it say that? What does it have to do with anything [[User:Qim1|Qim1]] 00:05, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
:Arcanine's [[species]] name is "Legendary Pokémon". In comparison, Bulbasaur's is "Seed Pokémon". Just on the off-chance that someone thinks Arcanine is actually a Legendary Pokémon, in the sense meant on this page. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 01:28, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
::Arcanine is considered as legendary in Chinese... since many [[Pokédex]] entries says Arcanine is from China.[[User:Palkia38|Palkia38]] 07:09, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

==Pokemon of Legend, Illusion, and Myth==
Is there any source for these categories of legendaries? The main paragraph suggests the Japanese versions identify legendaries differently that was narrowed for translation... What Pokemon are in these various categories, and why? What exactly do the Japanese versions say? [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 03:48, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

==Slowpoke/king==
This may meet with some dissent, but would Slowpoke or Slowking qualify under "Other Pokemon of myth"? Slowpoke is pretty dominantly featured in GSC and HG/SS, as well as the corresponding anime episode, as the savior of Azalea in time of need. He's practically worshiped there. I don't believe this story was ever explicitly stated as fact, but rather as a cultural legend of sorts. That means Slowpoke is featured in a legend, and so possibly counts as a low-tier legendary like Arcanine of Togepi.

Slowking may same to fit the position more, but the extent of its qualification are the second movie. I don't know if human speech, a knowledge of ancient prophecies, and a role in that prophecy coming true/being resolved counts as a legendary, but should also be considered.

So, what are the opinions on counting on or both as minor legendaries? I'll agree to any consensus, but just thought it would be worth bringing up since Slowpoke does garner some "It's a legendary" statements from time to time. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 00:48, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
:Pastoria worships Croagunk. Does that mean it's a minor legendary too? Slowpoke, as far as I know, only gets mentioned as legendary [[User:TTEchidna/Slopoke (that i ran into the other day)|when people are being sarcastic]].--'''[[Water (type)|Liquid]]''' [[Mask of Ice|'''ICE''']] (User:Cold)([[user:Cold|page]], [[User talk:Cold|talk]]) 00:55, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
::I was unaware of Croagunk's position in that area, though that does get me thinking... Slowpoke, Croagunk, and possibly some of the "Other Pokemon of myth" featured here might do well on a "Pokemon of cultural significance" kind of article. I expect gen 5 will introduce at least one new Pokemon that is treated similarly to these two, so at that time it might be feasible to make such an article. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 00:58, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
:::We need more than two Pokémon of culutral significance to make it an article. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 01:02, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
::::Which is why I suggested waiting until gen 5 when another Pokemon may be featured. But, as it stands now, Arcanine, Ninetails, and the Togepi line are strong candidates for such an article. Note that "legendary" is as much a fan-term as a canon one, so creating a corollary term for culturally-significant Pokemon would be ideal as well as alleviate the constant arguing about who is and isn't a legendary, when frankly many of the supposed legendaries ''would'' make more sense in a culture article. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 01:07, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

== Unique Pokemon ==

: So which Pokemon exactly are "unique" besides Mewtwo? I'm just curious. Also, has it ever been '''confirmed''' that Mewtwo is unique? [[User:LugiaRocks|'''LugiaRox''']] 02:34, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
::Well he is the first cloned legendary, first created legendary. But that's probably speculation.--'''[[User:Midnight Blue|Midnight]] [[User talk:Midnight Blue|''Blue'']]''' 03:49, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
::: Mewtwo is a special case. He's not even a "legendary" in the in-universe sense (no associated legends), only in the fanon sense. Discussing what other Pokemon are "unique" is beating a dead horse, since it's been done before and there's no way we can no for sure. Looking at it one way, nearly every Pokemon is unique, but in another way there's room for multiplies. Who knows? As for created Pokemon akin to Mewtwo, I'm sure that area will be explored at some point. Come gen 5, all the loose strings will be tired up. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 03:55, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
:::: I believe we could safely say that Arceus is unique. [[User:LugiaRocks|'''LugiaRox''']] 05:07, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
::::: Arceus is the personification of a concept. There could very well be more than one, with each being an avatar of an incomprehensible concept. It's called pantheism. Hindis practice it. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 05:46, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
::::::Hindu's you moron, hindi is the language they speak in india!--[[User:Minimag|Minimag]] 05:14, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
::::::: Does it really matter? And the term "Hindi" also applies to Hindu literature and culture. Religion/mythology is within the scope of culture, so there you go. I know my use of language. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 05:22, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
::::::::I thought it was polytheism. Anyways, in Hinduism concepts, gods are an aspect of Brahmna, the eternal being, which could be what Arceus could be based on, with the three major aspects of Brahma being legendary trios. Though I doubt this because Nintendo is based in Japan and not India. [[User:Turtwig A|Turt]][[wig]] [[Turtwig (Pokémon)|A]] ([[User talk:Turtwig A|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|contribs]]) 00:31, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
(reset indent)

The non-uniques are:
*Mew ([[Mewtwo Strikes Back]] & [[Lucario and the Mystery of Mew]])
*Lugia ([[The Power of One]], [[Silver (Johto)|Silver]], and possibly Movie 13)
*Regirock, Regice, Registeel ([[Brandon's Regis]] & [[Lucario and the Mystery of Mew]])
*Regigigas ([[Giratina and the Sky Warrior]] & [[DP129]])
*Lati@s ([[Pokémon Heroes]])
*Deoxys ([[Destiny Deoxys]])
*Manaphy ([[Pokémon Ranger and the Temple of the Sea]])
*Phione ([[DP113]])
*Darkrai ([[The Rise of Darkrai]] and [[DP104]])
*Shaymin ([[Giratina and the Sky Warrior]])

Uknown, yet debateable:
*Cresselia - If there's more than one Darkrai, why not Cresselia?
*Heatran - Only one has appeared so far, and even then, it was in the distant past.
*Jirachi - It came from space. We don't know if more are out there like Deoxys and Clefairy.
*The legendary birds - Unlike the beasts, we don't know if there were only 3 specifically created, although it is probable that they're unique.
*The legendary beasts- Although we know that Ho-Oh created 3 from the ashes of Pokémon, Suicune has appeared multiple times and sometimes in different regions. It has appeared in 3 episodes of the anime and one movie. The Entei in [[Spell of the Unown]] was only an illusion created by the Unown.

Unique:
*Mewtwo - It isn't actually a legendary in the anime, just a bad clone of one.
*Ho-Oh - Even though its counterpart, Lugia, is known to be able to have offspring, Ho-Oh seems to be a single Pokémon that travels around.
*Celebi - Although many appeared in [[Pokémon 4Ever]], they were the same Celebi, just from different time periods. The past and future came together in the present.
*Kyogre, Groudon, and Rayquaza - Kyogre and Groudon have appeared in the Team Magma and Team Aqua arc, and Kyogre has appeared in a movie or two. Rayquaza could be argued as having more than one in its species, but it is most likely the only one.
*Azelf, Uxie, and Mesprit - They were created by Arceus to keep Dialga and Palkia in balance.
*Dialga and Palkia - They are the keepers of time and space.
*Giratina - It is the guardian of the Reverse World, an distorted mirror of the Pokémon world. Although it could be argued that because mirror dimensions exist, and there would be Reverse Worlds for each of these mirror dimensions, that is extremely technical and most likely won't be mentioned.
*Arceus - Creator of the Pokémon universe. Not much more to say about that.

If that doesn't clear some things up, I don't know what will. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 22:49, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

:Actually, there is no way that Celebi would be the same Celebi from different time periods (as most of those Celebi [those supposedly from the future] would also not exist if that were the case, since it died.). As for Groudon and Kyogre, it was heavily implied in the end of Scuffle of Legends that they went to sleep again for another age-long rest (almost eternal), and it was also implied that the orbs are the only way they can awake, so it's more likely that Kyogre, at least, has multiples (since unless someone had bonded with the Blue Orb, then Kyogre should not awake, and thus not appear in Movie 9 if it's the same one.). Rayquaza was also implied to be captured by Team Rocket, and it won't make any sense that Rayquaza would be around the atmosphere if it can't get out (which the scene of it's capture implies that it can't escape.) Dialga and Palkia, did they even recognize Ash and co. when they appeared in the Team Galactic Two-Parter? If not, they're definitely not one of a kind, and since Giratina is also part of the same trio, that means it has to have multiples as well. For the Three Pixies, if there are more than one Dialga and Palkia, there are definitely going to be more than one Pixie Trio. So far, the only pokemon to be completely confirmed to be one of a kind without a doubt is Mewtwo. If Arceus somehow appears later on and doesn't even recognize Ash and Co, then it's safe to say that Arceus is also not one of a kind. As for Ho-Oh, let's wait until Movie 13 before we can say that it's one of a kind (If it doesn't recognize Ash, then it's safe to say it's not one of a kind.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 02:15, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

::Wow. I wasn't asking for a "Your wrong, stupid." type of response. We're trying to clear things up, not get into a fight. But since you want an argument for my point... For Celebi, the concept of time in the Pokémon universe, both games and movies, isn't immediate. In PMD2, you don't disappear right away. You still have like, a minute before you start to go away after correcting time. In Movie 12, it took forever for Ash and co. to nearly disappear, which they didn't. Celebi would have enough time to come back to heal itself. And who said it died anyways? It would also know when it would need to heal itself since it's a time travellor, and has basically the same powers that Dialga has, except they're not as massively powerful. There also isn't more than one Palkia, Dialga, or Arceus, as they're the only ones that are in existance. Dialga lives in a dimension outside of time, and Palkia controls all dimensions, except for Dialga's and Arceus'. It doesn't really matter if Palkia and Dialga recognize Ash and co. in the anime, because the anime =/= the movies. And from what I can tell, they don't do anything anyways. Cyrus captures them, and then the Lake trio free them and they go away. And there isn't more than one of each of the Lake trio, because there's... wait for it... ''three'' lakes for the ''three'' Lake guardians, and ''three'' {{tt|gifts|emotion, willpower, knowledge}} to humans. And so what if it appears that Team Rocket has Rayquaza? That was only in the intro to Movie 9 to show that there's evil in the Pokémon world. As for Groudon and Kyogre, again, anime =/= movies. Can't stress that enough. Those anime episodes were directly based off of R/S. There isn't any movie that's based specifically off of any part of a game. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 03:08, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

:::If Anime=/=Movies, then you shouldn't have even cited the movies in the first place (In other words, you shouldn't have cited Darkrai's appearances, as well as the other Legendary Pokémons appearances.). As for who said it had died, the mere fact that even the newly purified healing spring wasn't able to heal it implied that it had died. And for the record, I wasn't calling you stupid nor even implying that you were. And another thing, just because there are three lakes in Sinnoh that hold the pixie trio does not mean that there cannot be more than one Pixie trio. It was earlier implied that there was only one Mew left in existance, yet it was later made clear that there were actually two mews. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 03:42, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
::::Isn't there more than one Dialga, Palkia, and Giratina because of every Gen. IV game having them, but in different ways. HeartGold and SoulSilver has Arceus create one on the spot while DPPt has one already there. Doesn't that mean they are debatable? [[User:Turtwig A|Turt]][[wig]] [[Turtwig (Pokémon)|A]] ([[User talk:Turtwig A|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|contribs]]) 02:23, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
:::::I really don't think any of this matters actually. The only part that talks about unique legendaries, other than that one sentence, is the bottom where it lists the different in-battle music. I would say more, except I know Mchairybug will contradict everything I say. That's why I've stopped talking about it. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 05:09, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

===Definitively===
We can only say without a doubt that Mewtwo is unique in the anime. Arceus, the dragon trio, and the lake trio are presumed due to their link to the universe's creation. The rest, we can't say definitively, though we can more or less assume there's been only one Ho-Oh we've ever seen (Ash indicates it), and the weather trio's important roles also seem to point to there being only one of each.

Also, don't, ''don't'' think in the game sense in the anime. Also, the movies are canon, Ash-haters, find another thing he's not worthy of to rip on him for... like Gible or something. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 09:01, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

It's notable though that in "Mewtwo Strikes Back" Mew is refered in the single sense by many trainers(Such as saying "Mewtwo was cloned from Mew" instead of "Mewtwo was cloned from A Mew"). It could be that this Mew is ether the last one of the Mew kind, or just the Mew that's DNA was used to make Mewtwo. It's impossible to say though, since the movie never expands on this fact.--[[User:Dsman195276|Dsman195276]] 04:23, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

== Wobbuffett in the trivia section ==
Wobbuffett is not a legendary, but it along with Garchomp are the only non-legendary pokémon to be considered uber in competitive battling {{unsigned|Rocklee clone}}
:Unofficial tiers of competitive battling is irrelevant to this article. There's no need to mention Wobbuffet here. --[[User:ElectAbuzzzz|'''electAbuzz''']][[User talk:ElectAbuzzzz|'''z''']][[Special:Contributions/ElectAbuzzzz|'''z''']] 21:27, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

== Trivia; Other languages ==

So, I was looking on the French analog site (Poképédia) and noticed that there are only six legendaries that have had their name changed. (As far as I can tell, only a few of the non legendary pokémon retain the same english name.) They are: Zapdos (Électhor), Moltres (Sulfura), and Articuno(Artikodin); and Azelf(Créfadet), Mesprit(Créfollet), and Uxie(Créhelf).
Does this count as trivia?--[[User:Lamb|Lamb]]''([[User talk:Lamb|talk]])'' 00:34, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
:This is already mentioned in the article's trivia section.;)--[[User:Beligaronia|Beligaronia]] ([[User talk:Beligaronia|talk]]) 01:14, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
::Whoops. Didn't see that.--[[User:Lamb|Lamb]]''([[User talk:Lamb|talk]])'' 06:02, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

== In Game Re-battle ==

I know from elsewhere on this site that (in HGSS at least) if the legendary beasts are KO'd in battle, they can be 'revived' and battled again (for example, if you KO suicune, it'll keep reapearing in Burnt Tower until it's caught). I was just wondering which other legendaries can also be rebattled if they're KO'd? --[[User:Oatzy|Oatzy]] 23:56, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
:I believe it is any Pokémon that appears as a one-time capture, and you have to (re)battle the Elite Four in order to reset them. I know it works on Sudowoodo. On a similar note, I would like to know if its nature, IVs, etc. are reset when it reappears, particularly in regard to the roaming Pokémon. Giratina's stats were reset in Platinum. --[[User:JacobCrystal|JacobCrystal]] 19:33, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

== Champion Cynthia's team. ==

Did anyone else notice the groupings in http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Legendary_Pok%C3%A9mon#Other_Pok.C3.A9mon_of_myth ?

Out of the eleven bullet points on that list, Cynthia uses pokemon from five points, exactly one pokemon for each of those five points.
The groupings aren't exactly hewn in stone, though, so it's hardly trivia worthy. --[[User:PLA|PLA]] 09:26, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

== Reshiram and Zekrom ==

{{u|MAGNEDETH}} made the completely understandable decision to lock down this page to curb speculation, but Reshiram and Zekrom are confirmed to be legendaries by the Japanese site: http://www.pokemon-sp.jp/top.html [[User:Drapion|Drapion]] 20:48, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
:I'll be adding them later on. This whole damn page has been in cleanup for a couple months now, but I've been distracted. I'll finish editing it tomorrow and finally add them, under a Generation V header, tomorrow. Er. Today. I guess. It's early. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 10:19, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

== Zoroark? ==

Should Zoroark be in Other Pokémon of myth?? Or do we need to wait till the movie has actually premiered so we know exactly what he/she/it is or done?
:Wait till the movie comes out. We don't know much about Zoroark's role, yet. [[User:Takharii|<sc>Takharii</sc>]] '''~''' [[User talk:Takharii|<sc>Talk!</sc>]] 08:57, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
::Again, likely to be at least mentioned when I finish my cleanup of this damned thing. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 10:22, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
:::Is the fact that both Zorua and Zoroark event-''only'' sufficient to declare them Legendary? I'm not sure, but I believe that all pokémon available ''only'' through events are Legendary. I'm honestly not sure, however, if that is distinction enough for to be considered Legendary. [[User:Lostdrewid|Lostdrewid]] 07:29, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
::::It's a bit too soon to say that it is definitely a legendary. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 09:29, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
:::::I'm not convinced it is, though. Are they not, by definition, 幻のポケモン? They're almost even more illusory than Mew, Celebi and the like - not only are they event-only, but you need to attend said event ''prior to the launch of the games''. I ask this honestly, but... if that isn't the very picture of a Legendary Pokémon, what is? If what they are is not sufficient to be declared Legendary, then perhaps the article will need a tighter definition. Please do not misunderstand me, I'm not simply trying to be a nag [although I apologize, I realize I must sound like I am], I'm asking specifically because it seems to be that the status of these two is sort of at the crux of the definition of what it means to be Legendary and thus relevant, one way or another, to the article.
:::::Let me see if I can word my thoughts better. The article discusses the definition of Legendary at the introduction, before the TOC; the first section mentions common characteristics of being Legendary. What we have for these two matches the definition provided in the introduction; what we ''don't'' have for these two is a match, or lack of a match, with the common characteristics. Regardless of whether we are ultimately "right" about their Legendary status, if we say we don't have enough information to declare them Legendary, then maybe should the common characteristics [or some of them, whichever are truly defining] be considered as a part of the definition and moved to the introduction of the article?
:::::My goal here is ''not'' simply to see that Zorua and Zoroark be placed on the article. My goal is to see the article improve. I know, I know, it's a Featured Article and thus is considered awesome by the community - because, well, it is:) - but that doesn't mean that even an awesome article has no room to grow. In my original comment, I said plainly, I don't know whether being event only is sufficient to be called Legendary... but I ''shouldn't'' not know. Does that make sense?
:::::I'm sorry that I'm not good with words. I fear I'm going to be misunderstood here. Text only shows so little of meaning that misunderstandings are simple. I'm not trying to be critical, I'm not trying to say the article is bad. It not only isn't bad, I'll happily reiterate that it's awesome. But ultimately, if the legendary status of these two Pokémon is still in question, then the article's definition of legendary needs tightening. [[User:Lostdrewid|Lostdrewid]] 16:49, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
::::::TTE, let me also say that in no way are the arguments I've presented mean I am impatient to see the article updated. I completely understand that you're not a machine whose sole job in life is to update this site :) If this page is not updated until long after B&W comes out, I will not be upset. My sole desire is to see the article be as good as it can be. I feel that I do not have the proper words to contribute directly, even if the article was unlocked, so this is the only way that I feel I ''can'' contribute right now. [[User:Lostdrewid|Lostdrewid]] 17:04, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
:::::::I'd like to know where it's been confirmed that Zorua and Zoroark are ''only'' obtainable through the special events in BW? For all we know, Zorua and Zoroark will also be able to obtained in-game by normal means (wild encounter, NPC gift, etc.), it's just that the event ones are special for whatever reason.
:::::::Unless Spiky-eared Pichu is considered legendary now. :P [[User:Umeko|梅子]][[User talk:Umeko|❀]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|✿]] 18:40, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

Can anyone inform me why Zoroark/Zorua isn't counted a legendary? Thanks. [[User:Marlowe|Marlowe]] 18:45, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
:It's not at the end of the dex (Victini does not count) and it evolves from another Pokemon [[User:Ataro|Ataro]] 18:49, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

==plagiarism?==

I fear that content from this page has been copied onto this page. http://pokemonorg.wetpaint.com/page/Groups+of+Legendary+Pokemon
and maybe loads of other original bulbapedia content has been hoarded. can any one look into this?mods?admins? {{unsigned|AGGRON999}}
:Thanks, I'll take a look into it. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 11:12, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
::Even if the articles are original the images are taken directly from Bulbapedia and in fact link here when one clicks on the image.--[[User:Beligaronia|Beligaronia]] ([[User talk:Beligaronia|talk]]) 05:01, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
:::Yeah, the links go here too. I've spoken with the site owner and he's yet to get back to me. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 10:50, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
::::Thanks. :D

== Huh? ==

Um, actually, Heatran is ''not'' the only legendary Pokémon with a variable gender. There's also Spiritomb. --[[User:Jade 2010|Green Jade]] 20:49, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
:Spiritomb isn't legendary.--[[User:MisterE13|Mister]][[User talk:MisterE13|'''E''']][[Special:Contributions/MisterE13|13]] 20:50, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Well then why is Spiritomb so hard to obtain? --[[User:Jade 2010|Green Jade]] 20:58, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
:Feebas isn't a legendary, but it's almost equally hard to obtain as Spiritomb... they just choose to make some Pokemon difficult to obtain, and some easy to obtain. Adds variety, you know? ▫▫'''[[User:Tina|ティナ]]'''[[User talk:Tina|♫]][[Special:Contributions/Tina|★]] 21:02, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Also, Spiritomb are able to breed. Just sayin' [[User:Bttsstewart|Bttsstewart]] 03:09, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

== SIX Legendaries changed names? ==
Uxie's name is the same in Japanese and English; the lack of Y is just localization and doesn't affect pronunciation (it's no more different - in fact, less so - than Lucario being "Rukario" in Japanese). However, the article says ''six'' legendary Pokemon changed names (the other five, of course, being Articuno, Zapdos, Moltres, Mesprit, and Azelf.) --[[User:HeroicJay|HeroicJay]] 09:00, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
:I agree, Uxie shouldn't count.--[[User:Pokelova|''Poké'']][[User talk:Pokelova|lova!]] 09:09, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
::Except Lucario's Japanese name is Lucario, it's just spelled as Rukario in katakana. Yuxie>Uxie isn't any less of a change than Dodorio>Dodrio, Donfan>Donphan, or Chicorita>Chikorita. If anything, Houou>Ho-oh and Crecelia>Cresselia should be counted as well. --[[User:Goldenpelt]] 01:59, 30 July 2010 (UTC)
:::I gotta agree there... '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 04:41, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
:::I agree about the Lucario comparison. Uxie's Katakana name is Yukushii, not Yuxie, so it's not the same thing. But it does seem a bit silly to say that they are different names if they are pronounced the same. When they design the official romanji names they aren't thinking about the English audience, so of course it makes sense to change the spelling if they think it helps people of that audience pronounce it correctly. It's still the same name. --[[User:CrimsonChin|CrimsonChin]] 17:57, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

== Victini ==

Shouldn't this little creature be added? Id add it, but alas, I am not allowed *cries*. Or are we awaiting more information on it? --[[User:S2daam|S2daam]] 11:47, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
:It's been added... I just improved some things. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 20:54, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

== Mewtwo and Mew's "Unique Battle Music" ==

I really don't think this point should be in the trivia section; isn't that same re-mixed Kanto music used for the birds and, in FR/LG, for the beasts as well? The music for the weather trio and the elemental Regis is more unique than that.[[User:Starscream|Starscream]] 16:38, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
:They're different remixes. Mewtwo's remix I ''think'' is used for Ho-Oh and Lugia in FRLG, in that event no one got anywhere. Mew's is a completely different remix. The legendary birds also have a different remix. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 05:31, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

== Uniqueness in the games ==

In the trivia section it says "In the games, there appears to only be one of every legendary Pokémon", however that's not entirely true. There's only one you can catch, but I've seen a Zapdos and a Heatran in the Battle Hall in Platinum. --[[User:CrimsonChin|CrimsonChin]] 17:42, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

== Edit request ==

Add {{template|-}} before every generation header. →'''[[User:Axxonn|ΑΧΧΟΝΝ]][[User talk:Axxonn|fi]][[Special:Contributions/Axxonn|re]]''' 22:26, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
:I'm not having any issues, and I'm using a standard monitor. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 07:38, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

== Capitalization ==

*A [http://www.pokemon.com/us/games/videogame-pokemon-ranger-guardian-signs/ recent page] on Pokémon.com mentions it as "Legendary Pokémon," not "legendary Pokémon" (with a capital L). I haven't looked yet, but do other things (games, manga, cards, sites, etc.) mention the term as such? [[User:Tc26/Anime Predictions|tc]][[User:Tc26|²₆]][[User talk:Tc26|tc]][[User:Tc26/Sandbox|26]] 11:31, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

== Takuto ==
I think it's important to include an exmaple Takuto has two legendary Pokemon under the "anime" section, and no ramifications were apparent as a result of him possessing legendary Pokemon. {{unsigned|Datonyp1}}

== Split? ==
With Gen V being released very soon, don't you think this entry might get a bit too big? Perhaps we should split it by Generation. Although it might be somewhat of a shame though... [[User:PDL|PDL]] 03:02, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

== "Deer" (and where in the world is Victini?) ==

I think "deer" is a poor group name for that trio, seeing as the closest animals they resemble are the gazelle, the wildebeest, and the oryx{{tt|*|Okay, I'm actually guessing on this last one}}, all bovids. "Musketeers", while not as descriptive, is a lot less inaccurate, as it groups them by their running theme, and doesn't alienate Keldeo. 
On a different subject, shouldn't Victini have a paragraph in somewhere? --[[User:Kaoz|Kaoz]] 01:56, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

== "Raijin" Trio ==
"Borutorosu, ''Torunerosu'', and Randorosu are a trio of Pokémon based on Japanese Raijin, gods of thunder and lightning"
Torunerosu is most likely based on Fuujin, god of wind {{unsigned|Vienna Waltz}}
:Instead of Raijin, which only applies to Boltros, why not Djinn Trio? They look the part.--[[User:Kaoz|Kaoz]] 19:00, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
::There's also Cloud Trio, seeing that's what they got for a lower half. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * [[User talk:ArcToraphim|the Arc Toraph]] 19:22, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
:::Trios are more often named after their overall appearance rather than a common feature. Speaking of which, I did some research and the djinns seem to take visual cues from {{wp|oni}} (Japanese ogre-demons), more notably their facial features and horns. So that'd leave us with the Djinn and Oni alternatives.--[[User:Kaoz|Kaoz]] 22:03, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
::::"More often" doesn't mean "we should consider that first." Obviously the weather trio, lunar duo, Lake Guardians, tower duo all take what they're known for and uses those names. If they aren't djinn or demons in general, why refer to them as such (considering they're based on gods and nothing Middle Eastern)? Birds are birds, beasts are beasts, and Musketeers are French (otherwise, they might have been the Righteous Quartet). Call them the Kami trio, and you're way more accurate than Djinn. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * [[User talk:ArcToraphim|the Arc Toraph]] 23:23, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
:::::Sounds fair, but how descriptive is the word Kami? Not saying Oni was a better suggestion, in fact it suffers from the same problem of neither being widespread in use nor part of the game lore. Names like birds and beasts are simple and descriptive at the same time, because everyone knows what a bird is. Even the golem has been integrated into the general culture pool. Terms like Kami and Oni are known among the Otaku subculture, but once you step out of it, few people will look at the name and think of them. I don't know if Djinn has overcome the limits of the gaming subculture, but if that weren't the case, I'd be all for a name that did, such as ogre or genie.--[[User:Kaoz|Kaoz]] 02:57, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
::::::Kami itself is a broad term that encompasses "gods" with religious connotations. It's general enough that it's likely to have extended itself beyond Otakuism, and if not, one punch into Google gives the Wiki article on Kami as the first result. They're not based on genies or demons. They're based on Raijin, Fuujin, and Inari...which are Shinto gods. Kami. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * [[User talk:ArcToraphim|the Arc Toraph]] 13:09, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
:If we were to go for a specific god, wouldn't it make more sense to use Fuujin, as they're all part Flying-type? --[[User:Goldenpelt|Gοlden]][[User talk:Goldenpelt|pelt]] 23:48, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
::It shouldn't be a specific god, only because they aren't all based around that god. The flying-type is because, yeah, they're gods and they fly. It's not specifically relative to Fuujin that they can. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * [[User talk:ArcToraphim|the Arc Toraph]] 13:49, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
So now there's a page entitled [[Raijin trio]]. Is that really what we'll be calling them from now on? I thought the argument for calling them the Kami trio was the most convincing. --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] 18:51, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
:This is why I liked the wiki when it was locked. We could come to a consensus on sensitive stuff like legendary trio names ''before'' someone made the articles, such as the case with the trio of {{p|Reshiram}}, {{p|Zekrom}}, and {{p|Kyurem}}. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 19:11, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
::'''They''', btw, could be the Tao Dragons. Yin, Yang, Wu? That's Taoism. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * [[User talk:ArcToraphim|the Arc Toraph]] 21:54, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
::Toa/Dao Dragons is a good idea. Yeah, I think Kami Trio (Or possibly a Nature Trio) is much better than singling out the first in the Pokedex as the name. [[User:Vik0z0z|vik0z0z]] 18:51, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

== About Energy Dragon Trio ==
I can't edit talk page there so I make here, I found something on the name
ReshiRAM, ZekROM, KyuREM (RAM-ROM-REM)[[User:Arceus Vs Dragon Trio|Arceus Vs Dragon Trio]] 11:45, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

Right...but what does 'RAM-ROM-REM' mean? Or is the "interesting" bit that all their names end it a consonent made of an R and M with a vowel in between> :-/ [[User:Bttsstewart|Bttsstewart]] 03:13, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
:RAM is random-access memory, REM is rapid eye movement and ROM is read-only memory?--[[User:Pokelova|''Poké'']][[User talk:Pokelova|lova!]] 03:35, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
::"REM, a keyword for an inline comment in some computer languages", so yeah [[User:Vienna Waltz|Vienna Waltz]] 12:30, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
:::Yeah, I think he's just pointing out the name similarities. --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] 13:02, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

== Stat Averages ==
Would it be reasonable if someone added statistical averages like how each of the typings have? Just so we can get a good idea on what the average Legendary seems to have for stats? If anybody sees this as a good idea then how do I add it into the article? [[User:Shiramu Kuromu|Shiramu Kuromu]] 21:10, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
:That would be a good idea. Add up each stat, divide by the number of legendaries and put them in {{template|BaseStatNoCat}}. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 21:22, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
::Thanks I'll add that when I get time to sometime tommorow. [[User:Shiramu Kuromu|Shiramu Kuromu]] 23:19, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
:::Just posting the averages I got figured out here until I have all of them calculated (Note: Includes Alt Formes and Phione).
:::HP: 92.89

:::Attack: 86.11

:::Defense: 85.28

:::Special Attack: 124.45

:::Special Defense: 90.65

:::Speed: 99.72

:::So far I'm predicting high average Special based stats. Once I get everything else calculated I'll get the averages posted on the article, though while you posted the template for it I have absolutely no clue how to set it up. x-x Edit: Looks like I'm right about the Special part. [[User:Shiramu Kuromu|Shiramu Kuromu]] 19:57, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Nevermind about how to use them, used the Dragon Type page as a reference for these. Is it working correctly? Do I need to round them to whole numbers (The fully evolved averages for types displayed them like this though)?
===Statistical averages{{tt|*|Considering Alternate Formes as seperate Pokémon}}===
{{BaseStatNoCat|
HP=92.89 |
Attack=86.11 |
Defense=85.28 |
SpAtk=124.45 |
SpDef=90.65 |
Speed=99.72 }}
[[User:Shiramu Kuromu|Shiramu Kuromu]] 20:29, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
:Looking good. Feel free to incorporate that into the page when you're ready. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 21:12, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
::Can you get the bars to align to the right so that they are affecting in length by the numbers to the left of them? [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 00:27, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't know how to set it up like that. Though I do have to redo the totals since Phione is know confirmed not to be a legendary, so I'll figure out how to do that when I get he chance. [[User:Shiramu Kuromu|Shiramu Kuromu]] 17:11, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
::::I see, maybe you could move the bars all the way to the right? [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 20:16, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Featured Article ==

The article "Legendary Pokémon" has been a featured article for a while now. Doesn't anyone think it should give another article a chance? [[User:Pokedex493|Pokedex493]] 18:28, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
:I agree, there are plenty other articles out there? [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 19:26, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
::Yeah. Does anybody else agree? [[User:Pokedex493|Pokedex493]] 19:37, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Feel free to [[BP:FAC|nominated one]]. There is no limit to how many featured articles Bulbapedia can have. As long as this one is still high quality, it will stay featured and we will add more to the list. (Which reminds me, I need to close the current nominations.) —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 09:33, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

== Mythical Pokémon ==
With the commercials for Victini airing now, as well as the Celebi Distribution's page on the HeartGold and SoulSilver website, would it be a good guess to assume that TPCi considers Mythical Pokémon to be the translated term of "Illusory Pokémon"?--[[User:Purimpopoie|Purimpopoie]] 00:34, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
:Apparently, Mythical Pokémon is now used to refer to any legendary. [http://pokebeach.com/#legendary-pokemon-renamed-to-mythical-pokemon See here. I think a page moving might be in order.] - ''unsigned comment from [[User:Missingno. Master|Missingno. Master]] ([[User talk:Missingno. Master|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Missingno._Master|contribs]])'' 21:27, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
::Makes sense since in the anime Dratini was specifically stated to be legendary so they gotta rename legendaries... xD [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 22:04, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
:::Remember the Japanese games do actually use several different terms for 'legendary Pokémon'. It looks like the English translations are finally going to recognise that and do the same. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] [[User talk:Werdnae|(talk)]] 22:10, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
::::I agree on the move. If this is going to be standard, then we should change to reflect this. --[[User:Jonouchi|Jonouchi]] 23:14, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
:::::At most I think there should be a redirect that leads here... >.> [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 23:32, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
::Should be split. Reshizek are still legendary. The legendary Pokémon template should be divided, so it's one template, but maybe it should look like this:
|Legendary: Reshiram - Zekrom
Unova|
|Mythical: Victini - Other Stuff

[[User:TorchicBlaziken|TorchicBlaziken]] ([[User_talk:TorchicBlaziken|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/TorchicBlaziken|edits]]) 00:46, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
::::I... guess? Just as long as Victini and the others are not even ''once'' called legendary officially... [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 03:22, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
:I believe Mythical Pokémon is now the official translation for '''幻のポケモン''', as Celebi, Victini, Arceus and many others are all official called 幻のポケモン by the official Japanese website, and Reshiram and Zekrom and many others are called 伝説のポケモン. Now Mythical Pokémon and Legendary Pokémon is different.--[[User:Swampert|Swampert]] 13:46, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
::Well... seeing as how Bulbapedia ''is'' '''for''' fluff and unconfirmed info, I guess we might as well do this? By for I mean when told that something is fluff and unconfirmed people get called an idiot for not believing it to be true regardless of there being no proof of it whatsoever. [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 22:54, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Victini was called a ''Mythical Pokémon'', while Raikou, Entei, Suicune, Reshiram and Zekrom are still being called ''Legendary Pokémon''. Probably, they finally split the classification, like in Japanese: '''Legendary Pokémon''' (伝説のポケモン ''densetsu no Pokémon'') and '''Mythical Pokémon''' (幻のポケモン ''maboroshi no Pokémon''). - [[User:Taylor|Taylor]] 23:38, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
::I feel at this point in time it is time to restate what Dratini was called, 伝説のポケモン, Legendary Pokémon. [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 23:42, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

I for one vote that event Pokémon should be moved to Mythical Pokémon due to TCPi using a new term for the Pokémon that is given out by event.Anyone agree on this ? [[User Talk:LucarioWolf|'''Lucario''']][[User:LucarioWolf|'''Wolf''']] 23:50, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

It seems that's it. Event Legendaries were called ''maboroshi'' in Japanese and now they got their own classification in English... because Celebi and Arceus are being called ''Mythical'', too. - [[User:Taylor|Taylor]] 23:52, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
:Ah so then are we moving Dratini to Legendary Pokemon status? Since that is what it is called? [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 00:01, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
::Once, in the anime, ages ago. I'm talking about the recent, official use. - [[User:Taylor|Taylor]] 00:56, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
:::More like twice if you count Dragonite, but when it was called that does not change the fact it was called that. Also, how is the anime unofficial? [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 01:33, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
::::Was the Dratini line ever actually called "legendary" or such using the Japanese terms? [[User:Frugali|Frugali]] 01:37, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
:::::Well... not Dragonair specifically... [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 01:50, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
Okay this is driving me crazy, do we have any real confirmation that the new term is Mythical Pokemon or that the two will be used seperately? Why can't we wait 'till the games come out and if all of the 'legendaries' are called Mythical Pokémon, then <s>I'm going to have to kill someone</s> we can move it. If only some of them are called Mythical and some of them are Legendary, then we will have to rethink our classification of Legendary and Mythical Pokémon (what makes one legendary and the other mythical. Hopefully, they'll all stay as legendaries and we can move on with our lives. :P --[[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']]''' 02:09, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
:Considering the current events... Raikou, Entei, Suicune, Reshiram and Zekrom '''were deemed Legendary'''; Victini, Celebi and Arceus '''were deemed Mythical'''. Pretty simple to me: normal gameplay ones are Legendaries, event-exclusive ones are Mythical. Just like Japanese ''densetsu'' and ''maboroshi''. - [[User:Taylor|Taylor]] 02:32, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
::''By that logic'', Dratini and Dragonite '''were deemed Legendary''', just saying. [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 10:38, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
:::Okay, like it or not Dratini and Dragonite are not legendary. Dragonite is [[Pseudo-legendary]] but that's as close as they get. On the other note, I'd say wait 'till the games come out in a week or two before making any bold descisions. --[[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']]''' 01:22, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
::::Oh hey I agree, thank you for understanding my point, Dratini and Dragonite are not legendary just because they were called that, exactly why just because someone calls a couple pokemon mythical instead of legendary does not automatically make them not legendary but a new subtype of legendary called mythical. [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 02:51, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

=== Victini, Celebi, and Arceus ===
*I've been to the mall tour and in the "Introduction to Unova" that they show before entering the "Video Game Experience" area, the Narrator says, "Wow! It's ''the Mythical Pokémon Victini''! They say it has the power to bring victory." as Victini appears on the screen. And on the 13th page of the Tour Book given out during the mall tour about the distribution of the [[Liberty Pass]], it identifies Victini as ''the Mythical Pokémon Victini'' twice.

*Celebi is referred to as ''the Mythical Pokémon Celebi'' on [http://www.pokemon.com/us/ Pokémon.com], linking to a [http://www.pokemongoldsilver.com/us/#/news/celebi/ page] about Celebi's distribution at the mall tours and at Game Stop. On that page it refers to Celebi as ''the Mythical Celebi''. At the bottom of the same page, upon click the '6', it refers to the Celebi that the player receives from the deliveryman after it is distributed, as ''the Mythical Pokémon'', rather than just 'Celebi'.

*In an [http://www.pokemon.com/us/news/anim_movie12_dvd-2011-02-04/ announcement] about [[M12|Arceus and the Jewel of Life]] going on DVD, it refers to Arceus as ''the Mythical Pokémon Arceus''.

Mythical Pokémon are most likely Pokémon that can only legitimately be obtained through distributions since this is true for Victini, Celebi, and Arceus, alike.

If my assumption turns out to be correct, all of the following Pokémon are those who I believe will likely be considered Mythical Pokémon:

*{{p|Mew}}
*{{p|Celebi}}
*{{p|Jirachi}}
*{{p|Deoxys}}
*{{p|Phione}} -- The fact that it can only be legitimately obtained by breeding a Ditto and a Manaphy, which the latter of can only legitimately be obtained through distributions, is enough for me to believe that Phione would be a Mythical Pokémon, in this case.
*{{p|Manaphy}}
*{{p|Darkrai}}
*{{p|Shaymin}}
*{{p|Arceus}}
*{{p|Victini}}
*{{p|Zorua}} -- Requires a fateful encounter Pokémon. Seems like good enough a reason to me.
*{{p|Zoroark}} -- Evolved form of an assumed-to-be Mythical Pokémon and requires fateful encounter Pokémon. Again, seems like good enough a reason.
*{{p|Keldeo}} -- Assumed to be available in the future via a distribution. Similar to Shaymin, Darkrai, and Arceus being kept secret at first.
*{{p|Meloetta}} -- Assumed to be available in the future via a distribution. Similar to Shaymin, Darkrai, and Arceus being kept secret at first.
*{{p|Genesect}} -- Assumed to be available in the future via a distribution. Similar to Shaymin, Darkrai, and Arceus being kept secret at first.

-- [[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']]''' 01:12, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
:I would like to disagree in a single point: I think Mythical Pokémon are ''Legendary'' Pokémon that can't be legitimately obtained in normal gameplay. So I disagree on Phione, Zorua and Zoroark, but definitely agree on the rest. - [[User:Taylor|Taylor]] 01:33, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
::What about Victini? has Victini ever been officially called Legendary anywhere? --[[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']]''' 02:02, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
I would like to chime in here, and state that {{p|Dratini}}'s Red, Blue, Yellow, and LeafGreen Pokedex entries state that it is considered a "mythical Pokémon". '''[[User:Blake|Blake]]''' [[User talk:Blake#top|Talk]]·[[Special:Contributions/Blake|Edits]] 21:23, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
:Um, the whole Dratini ordeal was a joke. It's by no means Legendary. It hasn't had a movie. (Yes I know this is an arguable point) It's part of an evolutionary stage. There's way more than just one of them. It probably won't be considered Mythical since it is not Legendary, and it isn't event-exclusive. --[[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']]''' 21:34, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
::So, now that the block is over. What are we gonna do with the whole mythical Pokémon thing? --[[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']]''' 21:47, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

== "Unique" Legendaries in the Anime. ==

All right, I tolerated it when it was present, but after the addition of creatures that obviously weren't considered unique in the Anime (e.g., the Beast Trio from Johto), I think there needs to be a purging in regards to what's counted as unique and what's not.

First off, in regards to uniques, the only one explicitly confirmed to be Unique is Mewtwo. Most of the others are either unconfirmed or explicitly shown to be non-unique and thus should not be listed as such. Also, don't claim that they had some sort of important role in creating something (like creation of the Universe, for example) as a reason to state that they should be unique, because I will remind everyone that the Anime doesn't even care whether the creatures had an important role in creation. For example, Kyogre and Rayquaza was the one who created the Seas as well as the ruler of the skies/mitigator between Groudon and Kyogre's fight, respectively. However, that never stopped them from gaining multiple species, as evidenced with Kyogre reappearing in Movie 9 even though by the time of the movie, the Kyogre they encountered had already went back into slumber at the bottom of the basin, and if Kyogre has multiples, there's a fine bet that Groudon would have multiples as well. Rayquaza has also been shown to reappear three times, with one actually being captured by Team Rocket. Even if all three were the same entity, the mere fact that Kyogre and Groudon (explicitly shown and by proxy, respectively) had multiples meant that Rayquaza would have multiples as well. I mean, no sense in having one have multiples while others in the same trio not have the same multiples, either. Because of this, we can't use the whole "but they helped create Isshu/the Universe" belief as the reason why they are unique. Unless they have explicitly shown that they are unique, they can not be labelled as such, especially not under assumptions. If you have any evidence that suggests that the Legendaries encountered in the Anime are the same (e.g., the legendary in question actually recognizing Ash and co. from a previous encounter), then please add it in with the proper citation. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 20:27, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

== Zekrom and Reshiram: "Constant Conflict?" No. ==

Their paragraph states that the two are in constant conflict with one another. This is not true--not only are they sealed away in Stones for many years prior to Black and White, but in Opelucid City, Iris also states that the two "get along so well." I've changed it to be more accurate. [[User:Grei|Grei]] 06:27, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Talk:Legendary Pokémon/Archive2

2011-06-04T06:30:06Z

Grei: /* Zekrom and Reshiram */

Talk:Legendary Pokémon/Archive2

2011-06-04T06:28:22Z

Grei: /* Zekrom and Reshiram */

[[Talk:Legendary Pokémon/Archive1|Archive #1]]

== WTF? ==

Giratina controls dimensions? That's stupid... can somebody remove that? Time and Space (depth, lengh and width) are the freaking dimensions everyone! So Giratina has more power than both Dialga and Palkia? I think not. Remember that Giratina lives in the Distortion World... a place that disobeys the laws of Time and Space. '''[[User:Hfc2x|hfc]][[User talk:Hfc2x|2X]]''' 22:26, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

There are 2 types of dimensions, matematical, which you were talking about, and spacial, which would be under Giratina's control. If you don't belive me, look up "Plane (metaphysics)" on Wikipedia. The dimensions that Giratina controls are '''alternate planes of exictence''', also called '''dimensions'''!- ''unsigned comment from {{u|GuyNamedSean}} ([[User talk:GuyNamedSean|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/GuyNamedSean|contribs]]){{ #if: | {{{2}}} |}}''
:It seems that Giratina can control gravity, or atleast that is how I enterpreted the explanation of its form shift. It also makes some sense because gravity could be considered a third factor in time-space [[User:Enigmaberry|Enigmaberry]] 02:29, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

:I agree with hfc2X, this needs to be changed. It was never officially stated anywhere that Giratina controls dimensions or anything at all, really. If you guys are going to write up fan speculation, you can at least, you know, actually make a note of that. [[User:Marlowe|Marlowe]] 02:17, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

:An additional note, after editing the page a few times I noticed that only established users are allowed to make changes, my mistake there. Still, this needs to be changed for accuracy. [[User:Marlowe|Marlowe]] 02:30, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
::You do realize that this talk section is from BEFORE Platinum was released in English, right? '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 02:34, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
::What does that have to do with anything? Whether it's from one day or even five years ago, it doesn't change the fact that a change still needs to be made. As an encyclopedia, this doesn't need fanon crap. [[User:Marlowe|Marlowe]] 02:36, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
:::Because Platinum confirmed it. Duh. '''~ platinum[[User:Sol|s]][[User talk:Sol|o]][[Special:Contributions/Sol|l]]''' 02:37, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
::::Prove it, then. [[User:Marlowe|Marlowe]] 02:38, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
:::::Disprove it, then. '''~ platinum[[User:Sol|s]][[User talk:Sol|o]][[Special:Contributions/Sol|l]]''' 02:39, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
::::::It is also said in the Distortion World by Cyrus about Giratina's control over dimensions...I'm way, way ahead of that, otherwise I'd give you the exact quote.--[[User:PsychicRider|'''Psychic''']][[User talk:PsychicRider|'''Rider''']]''''[[Special:Contributions/PsychicRider|'''☮''']]'' 02:39, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
:::::My bad. I forgot. Giratina can't go between dimensions, or drag people into the Distorted World, or anything like that. Sorry. I guess it has no real power. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 02:40, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
:::::::Spare me the reverse psychology, Sol, you said that Platinum confirmed it and I'm telling you to point to me where that was specifically confirmed. You're the one making false claims, not me. It was never stated that Giratina controls dimensions, this is FAN SPECULATION which is something that Bulbapedia frowns on if I'm not mistaken. At least it's something they should be frowning upon. [[User:Marlowe|Marlowe]] 02:45, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
::::::::If you can't prove that it hasn't been proved, then it's useless to try and say that it's fan speculation. PsychicRider has confirmed it, so no, it's not fan speculation. '''~ platinum[[User:Sol|s]][[User talk:Sol|o]][[Special:Contributions/Sol|l]]''' 02:46, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
:::::::::Quit acting like a politician and disprove it. You're avoiding what somebody tells you that goes against what you're trying to say. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 02:49, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
:Sol, you're the one who's in a position to prove something, not me. I basically asked "Where was that confirmed?" and you've yet to answer that question. I would like the specific quote of Cyrus stating this, though, as I don't recall it. [[User:Marlowe|Marlowe]] 02:53, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
::I'm way past that, as in Battle Frontier past, but I do remember that it is confirmed from Cyrus's dialogue. --[[User:PsychicRider|'''Psychic''']][[User talk:PsychicRider|'''Rider''']]''''[[Special:Contributions/PsychicRider|'''☮''']]'' 02:59, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
:::So I'm apparently supposed to conveniently be at the point in time where Cyrus says that specific quote. '''~ platinum[[User:Sol|s]][[User talk:Sol|o]][[Special:Contributions/Sol|l]]''' 03:02, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
::::No, this isn't a perfect quote, but: "Hmm... so Giratina disappeared into the real world... it doesn't matter. I'll capture it, and then I'll use the dimensional powers of Giratina to form a new world here and destroy the real one." '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 03:06, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
:::::I believe that's the quote I was looking for...boys, we have our proof. :D. --[[User:PsychicRider|'''Psychic''']][[User talk:PsychicRider|'''Rider''']]''''[[Special:Contributions/PsychicRider|'''☮''']]'' 03:08, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

:::::In that case (if that was explicitly stated), I stand corrected. Thanks. [[User:Marlowe|Marlowe]] 03:10, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
::::::Don't mention it. It only took me 30 minutes to think of. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 03:13, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

:Not to sound like a broken record here, but I've just gotten through the Distortion World on my second run-through and Cyrus doesn't make that statement anywhere. I even saved right before the battle with Giratina to see what Cyrus would say in both scenarios (catching Giratina or defeating it), but the dialogue only changes slightly and there's still no explicit mention of it having control over dimensions. Besides, aren't space and time dimensions as well? Judging from some of the official interviews on Giratina I've just read, I'm more inclined to say that Giratina simply controls antimatter. If I'm not mistaken, antimatter IS considered to be the third factor out of time and space, after all. I propose that we take "dimensions" out of the sentence. [[User:Marlowe|Marlowe]] 08:22, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
::I watched a Youtube video and saw the same thing. But no. Dimensions isn't coming out. The descriptions aren't just for the games, but also the anime/movies you have to remember. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 12:30, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

== Bubbly Mew ==

Wherever I go, whatever I read that's about Mew or the first movie, it says something like "The Bubbly Mew appeared in the first move", or something like that. Now, why is it called "Bubbly Mew" and why is it just the Mew in the first movie? And where did that term of Bubbly Mew ever come from?--[[User:Dragonbeastx|DRAGON]][[User talk:Dragonbeastx|BEAST]][[User:Dragonbeastx/The Aura Spot|X]] 22:25, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
:Maybe it's that the Mew in the first movie enjoyed making bubbles. [[user:Simpsonsdude13| SD13 Simpsondude13>''']][[user talk:Simpsonsdude13|SD13 Talk]] 20:44, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
==Phione?==
Does Phione really count? And why not Unown? I always thought of the symbols as legends. Me and my fellow torchics agree on this - Sk8torchic
:Phione counts because to get one you have to breed a legendary. Unown doesn't because it's extremely distant from any other legendary. Note the beasts and the birds. Sure they're separated by the powerhouses and events by Dratini and Larvitar's families, but they're next to each other and divided from the others by no more than three Pokémon. Unown has 50 down and 42 up. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 23:41, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
::So all legends have to be near each other in the pokedex? Since when? Me and my fellow torchics agree on this - Sk8torchic 16:07, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

:::Besides, nobody would buy Unown being legendary, what with how they're found all over the place in the [[Ruins of Alph]], [[Tanoby Chambers]], and [[Solaceon Ruins]]. Trust me, in the time it takes to breed for one Phione, odds are one could catch 2 PC boxes entirely full of Unown (although there's no guarantee that all 28 forms would be included)...--[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 16:54, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

== Can we really stop saying that Rayquaza is based on a Ziz ==

It really isn't. The closest thing we have to a bird whose wingspan is large enough to block out the sun is Lugia, atleast according to the accounts of an elderly NPC in Ecruteak city.--[[User:Outrage DD|Outrage DD]] 22:05, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
:Well, Groudon isn't a giant hippo...elephant...rhino...''thing''...—[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 23:56, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
::They are both based on the concept of these legendary creatures. Masters of the sky and land respectivly.--[[User:MisterE13|Mister]][[User talk:MisterE13|'''E''']][[Special:Contributions/MisterE13|13]] 00:43, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

== Info ==
Why is {{P|Rotom}} not a legendary?, I'm not complaining, I just want to know why.[[User:Pokemonguy1|Pokemonguy1]] 18:28, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
: *[[Talk:Rotom_(Pok%C3%A9mon)/Archive_1|slaps with a wet Magikarp]]* Archives are your friends. — [[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|THE TROM]] — 01:46, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

because it doesn't have monster stats--[[User:Pokemongirl1|PG1 FTW!]] 15:25, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

:Neither does {{p|Phione}}, and yet it's still a Legendary. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 19:17, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

::That's because {{p|Manaphy|a legendary is needed to obtain it}}. --'''[[User:Theryguy512|Theryguy]][[User Talk:Theryguy512|512]]''' 19:40, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
:::Just a reminder that this is a forums topic.... o_0 Go there, peeps. — [[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|THE TROM]] — 09:38, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

All you need to do to catch it is to press a on a tv during night time. to get a phione, like it was said before, you need to have manaphy and breed it. --[[User:Usyflad10|Usyflad10]] ([[User talk:Usyflad10|talk]]) 23:35, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Rotom can breed; legendary Pokemon cannot. Manaphy being the exception but it's more of a 'novelty' that it produces Phione when it lays an egg. [[User:Bttsstewart|Bttsstewart]] 03:02, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

== Legendary Pokémon group picture ==

I made this: [http://student-kmt.hku.nl/~abel1/PF2pictures/Legendary%20Pok%e9mon.jpg]

I think it'll be nice if it was placed in this article, next to (or instead of) that Entei pic.

Greetz,
Abel
:It's nice really but the thing is that the Johto legends will be getting new artworks soon and, maybe, the admins might not like the signature on the upper right. Also, Deoxys is actually shorter than Mewtwo. [[User:Tc26/Anime Predictions|tc]][[User:Tc26|²₆]][[User talk:Tc26|tc]][[User:Tc26/Sandbox|26]] 12:33, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
::Just a reminder that fan art, I think, is generally frowned on. While that is very impressive, we can't use it here. — [[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|THE TROM]] — 21:06, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

== Latios and Latias ==

So I know that the current pic is better than the last, but I'm pretty sure it's {{tt|fan made.|Copyright info doesn't make it official... it only makes the claim that somebody owns the rights to characters...}} And we aren't supposed to have fan pics on pages. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 21:06, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
:Are you sure about that? That's the same font the Pokémon Company uses, it's in Sugimori's style, ''and'' it has his {{wp|Seal (East Asia)|hanko}} on it...—[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 22:31, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

::{{tt|Who's the girl though?|forgot about this since the database was locked at the time...}} '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 21:09, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
:::Beats me. But that's definitely official. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 21:21, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Latios and Latias should be jhoto legendaries because the movie takes place in jhoto.
[[User:JetanHertz13|JetanHertz13]] 00:18, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
::That's... nice? If you join in a conversation that's like... 5 months old, at least add something important. [[User:The Dark Fiddler|The Dark Fiddler]] - [[User talk:The Dark Fiddler|You enter a poorly lit room...]] 00:54, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
:::Latios and Latias appear in a Johto-era movie because they needed to hype up Hoenn. Der. The Eon duo don't even appear in Johto in HGSS, they're roaming Kanto! And it's '''''JOHTO''''', not Jhoto. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 00:27, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Since Heatran being the first with a variable gender is mentioned, shouldn't it be mentioned that they were the first legendaries to have genders? [[User:Goldenpelt|Goldenpelt]] 08:09, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

== Protection Error? ==

Isn't this page protected? I had no problem editing it, and I'm no admin. --[[User:CuboneKing|CUBONE PWNS]] ([[User talk:CuboneKing|Planet Cubone]] • [[Special:Contributions/CuboneKing|Bone Club]]) [[Cubone (Pokémon)|THE VERY BEST PAGE!]] 20:28, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
:New users are blocked from editing (which, at the current state of the wiki does nothing). Only admins may move the page, though. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 20:31, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
::Ohhhhhhhhh... NOW I get it... --[[User:CuboneKing|CUBONE PWNS]] ([[User talk:CuboneKing|Planet Cubone]] • [[Special:Contributions/CuboneKing|Bone Club]]) [[Cubone (Pokémon)|THE VERY BEST PAGE!]] 20:35, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

== Trivia: Legendary Pokémon Themes ==

It should be noted that in the upcoming games, HeartGold and SoulSilver, that Lugia and Ho-Oh now both have their own, distinct themes in the upcoming games. It was confirmed on the "never before seen footage" on Pokémon Sunday where they revealed meeting Lugia and Ho-Oh in the games. :) From the small clips you can hear, Ho-Oh's theme seems to be very Japanese-percussion based (taiko drums) and Lugia's is very orchestral-dramatics based. {{unsigned|Gimmetokyo}}

I wonder if it's also pertinent to mention that the legendary beasts in HG/SS technically have their own unique themes, as well - or perhaps it would be more accurate to say that they have their own unique remixes of a theme. Either way, their battle music in HG/SS is not shared (identically, at any rate) with any other Pokemon. --[[User:Xatni|Xatni]] 01:07, 2 June 2010 (UTC)Xatni

== New article ==
Since the Legendary Trios and Duos have articles, should the Legendarys without a group (Trio Master's not included) get there own article too? {{unsigned|Blackstone Dresden}}

:If you mean Legendaries like {{p|Mew}}, {{p|Celebi}}, and {{p|Manaphy}}, then no. What would we write that isn't already on their own pages? '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 04:16, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

== Arceus HGSS pic ==

[[Image:Arceus - HGSS Event Artwork.jpg|thumb|left|150px]]
 How about adding it? -- [[User:RikkiKitsune|R<s>ikki</s>]][[User talk:RikkiKitsune|Kitsune]] 21:26, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

If I could, I would!--[[User:The Bulb's Master|The Bulb's Master]] 12:45, 13 August 2009 (UTC) Master of Bulbasaur and Turtwig♀

:I didn't place that one since one for the Azure Flute event would be better. It would be similar to Darkrai and Shaymin. [[User:Tc26/Anime Predictions|tc]][[User:Tc26|²₆]][[User talk:Tc26|tc]][[User:Tc26/Sandbox|26]] 12:49, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

::I'll put it in for now. We can always change it when the Flute event gets its own artwork. We're using the HGSS Beasts artwork aren't we? '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 16:25, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

== Edit! ==
I can't edit, but one of you should include that they can be found in Sinnoh.--[[User:The Bulb's Master|The Bulb's Master]] 12:44, 13 August 2009 (UTC) Master of Bulbasaur and Turtwig♀

== "Legendary" ==
Is the term "legendary" an official descriptor or one applied by the fandom? [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 23:55, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
:Its official. It appears in the games, anime, and all sorts of sources. It even appears in some Pokédex entries. '''[[User:Blake|Blake]]''' [[User talk:Blake#top|Talk]]·[[Special:Contributions/Blake|Edits]] 01:38, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
::Yeah, I've been playing Blue and the first instance of the term "legendary Pokemon" is on Route 14 by a Bird Keeper, for future reference. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 03:45, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

==[[Arcanine]]==
"If you were looking for the "Legendary Pokémon" species, see Arcanine (Pokémon). "
Why does it say that? What does it have to do with anything [[User:Qim1|Qim1]] 00:05, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
:Arcanine's [[species]] name is "Legendary Pokémon". In comparison, Bulbasaur's is "Seed Pokémon". Just on the off-chance that someone thinks Arcanine is actually a Legendary Pokémon, in the sense meant on this page. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 01:28, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
::Arcanine is considered as legendary in Chinese... since many [[Pokédex]] entries says Arcanine is from China.[[User:Palkia38|Palkia38]] 07:09, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

==Pokemon of Legend, Illusion, and Myth==
Is there any source for these categories of legendaries? The main paragraph suggests the Japanese versions identify legendaries differently that was narrowed for translation... What Pokemon are in these various categories, and why? What exactly do the Japanese versions say? [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 03:48, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

==Slowpoke/king==
This may meet with some dissent, but would Slowpoke or Slowking qualify under "Other Pokemon of myth"? Slowpoke is pretty dominantly featured in GSC and HG/SS, as well as the corresponding anime episode, as the savior of Azalea in time of need. He's practically worshiped there. I don't believe this story was ever explicitly stated as fact, but rather as a cultural legend of sorts. That means Slowpoke is featured in a legend, and so possibly counts as a low-tier legendary like Arcanine of Togepi.

Slowking may same to fit the position more, but the extent of its qualification are the second movie. I don't know if human speech, a knowledge of ancient prophecies, and a role in that prophecy coming true/being resolved counts as a legendary, but should also be considered.

So, what are the opinions on counting on or both as minor legendaries? I'll agree to any consensus, but just thought it would be worth bringing up since Slowpoke does garner some "It's a legendary" statements from time to time. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 00:48, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
:Pastoria worships Croagunk. Does that mean it's a minor legendary too? Slowpoke, as far as I know, only gets mentioned as legendary [[User:TTEchidna/Slopoke (that i ran into the other day)|when people are being sarcastic]].--'''[[Water (type)|Liquid]]''' [[Mask of Ice|'''ICE''']] (User:Cold)([[user:Cold|page]], [[User talk:Cold|talk]]) 00:55, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
::I was unaware of Croagunk's position in that area, though that does get me thinking... Slowpoke, Croagunk, and possibly some of the "Other Pokemon of myth" featured here might do well on a "Pokemon of cultural significance" kind of article. I expect gen 5 will introduce at least one new Pokemon that is treated similarly to these two, so at that time it might be feasible to make such an article. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 00:58, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
:::We need more than two Pokémon of culutral significance to make it an article. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 01:02, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
::::Which is why I suggested waiting until gen 5 when another Pokemon may be featured. But, as it stands now, Arcanine, Ninetails, and the Togepi line are strong candidates for such an article. Note that "legendary" is as much a fan-term as a canon one, so creating a corollary term for culturally-significant Pokemon would be ideal as well as alleviate the constant arguing about who is and isn't a legendary, when frankly many of the supposed legendaries ''would'' make more sense in a culture article. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 01:07, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

== Unique Pokemon ==

: So which Pokemon exactly are "unique" besides Mewtwo? I'm just curious. Also, has it ever been '''confirmed''' that Mewtwo is unique? [[User:LugiaRocks|'''LugiaRox''']] 02:34, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
::Well he is the first cloned legendary, first created legendary. But that's probably speculation.--'''[[User:Midnight Blue|Midnight]] [[User talk:Midnight Blue|''Blue'']]''' 03:49, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
::: Mewtwo is a special case. He's not even a "legendary" in the in-universe sense (no associated legends), only in the fanon sense. Discussing what other Pokemon are "unique" is beating a dead horse, since it's been done before and there's no way we can no for sure. Looking at it one way, nearly every Pokemon is unique, but in another way there's room for multiplies. Who knows? As for created Pokemon akin to Mewtwo, I'm sure that area will be explored at some point. Come gen 5, all the loose strings will be tired up. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 03:55, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
:::: I believe we could safely say that Arceus is unique. [[User:LugiaRocks|'''LugiaRox''']] 05:07, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
::::: Arceus is the personification of a concept. There could very well be more than one, with each being an avatar of an incomprehensible concept. It's called pantheism. Hindis practice it. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 05:46, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
::::::Hindu's you moron, hindi is the language they speak in india!--[[User:Minimag|Minimag]] 05:14, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
::::::: Does it really matter? And the term "Hindi" also applies to Hindu literature and culture. Religion/mythology is within the scope of culture, so there you go. I know my use of language. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 05:22, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
::::::::I thought it was polytheism. Anyways, in Hinduism concepts, gods are an aspect of Brahmna, the eternal being, which could be what Arceus could be based on, with the three major aspects of Brahma being legendary trios. Though I doubt this because Nintendo is based in Japan and not India. [[User:Turtwig A|Turt]][[wig]] [[Turtwig (Pokémon)|A]] ([[User talk:Turtwig A|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|contribs]]) 00:31, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
(reset indent)

The non-uniques are:
*Mew ([[Mewtwo Strikes Back]] & [[Lucario and the Mystery of Mew]])
*Lugia ([[The Power of One]], [[Silver (Johto)|Silver]], and possibly Movie 13)
*Regirock, Regice, Registeel ([[Brandon's Regis]] & [[Lucario and the Mystery of Mew]])
*Regigigas ([[Giratina and the Sky Warrior]] & [[DP129]])
*Lati@s ([[Pokémon Heroes]])
*Deoxys ([[Destiny Deoxys]])
*Manaphy ([[Pokémon Ranger and the Temple of the Sea]])
*Phione ([[DP113]])
*Darkrai ([[The Rise of Darkrai]] and [[DP104]])
*Shaymin ([[Giratina and the Sky Warrior]])

Uknown, yet debateable:
*Cresselia - If there's more than one Darkrai, why not Cresselia?
*Heatran - Only one has appeared so far, and even then, it was in the distant past.
*Jirachi - It came from space. We don't know if more are out there like Deoxys and Clefairy.
*The legendary birds - Unlike the beasts, we don't know if there were only 3 specifically created, although it is probable that they're unique.
*The legendary beasts- Although we know that Ho-Oh created 3 from the ashes of Pokémon, Suicune has appeared multiple times and sometimes in different regions. It has appeared in 3 episodes of the anime and one movie. The Entei in [[Spell of the Unown]] was only an illusion created by the Unown.

Unique:
*Mewtwo - It isn't actually a legendary in the anime, just a bad clone of one.
*Ho-Oh - Even though its counterpart, Lugia, is known to be able to have offspring, Ho-Oh seems to be a single Pokémon that travels around.
*Celebi - Although many appeared in [[Pokémon 4Ever]], they were the same Celebi, just from different time periods. The past and future came together in the present.
*Kyogre, Groudon, and Rayquaza - Kyogre and Groudon have appeared in the Team Magma and Team Aqua arc, and Kyogre has appeared in a movie or two. Rayquaza could be argued as having more than one in its species, but it is most likely the only one.
*Azelf, Uxie, and Mesprit - They were created by Arceus to keep Dialga and Palkia in balance.
*Dialga and Palkia - They are the keepers of time and space.
*Giratina - It is the guardian of the Reverse World, an distorted mirror of the Pokémon world. Although it could be argued that because mirror dimensions exist, and there would be Reverse Worlds for each of these mirror dimensions, that is extremely technical and most likely won't be mentioned.
*Arceus - Creator of the Pokémon universe. Not much more to say about that.

If that doesn't clear some things up, I don't know what will. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 22:49, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

:Actually, there is no way that Celebi would be the same Celebi from different time periods (as most of those Celebi [those supposedly from the future] would also not exist if that were the case, since it died.). As for Groudon and Kyogre, it was heavily implied in the end of Scuffle of Legends that they went to sleep again for another age-long rest (almost eternal), and it was also implied that the orbs are the only way they can awake, so it's more likely that Kyogre, at least, has multiples (since unless someone had bonded with the Blue Orb, then Kyogre should not awake, and thus not appear in Movie 9 if it's the same one.). Rayquaza was also implied to be captured by Team Rocket, and it won't make any sense that Rayquaza would be around the atmosphere if it can't get out (which the scene of it's capture implies that it can't escape.) Dialga and Palkia, did they even recognize Ash and co. when they appeared in the Team Galactic Two-Parter? If not, they're definitely not one of a kind, and since Giratina is also part of the same trio, that means it has to have multiples as well. For the Three Pixies, if there are more than one Dialga and Palkia, there are definitely going to be more than one Pixie Trio. So far, the only pokemon to be completely confirmed to be one of a kind without a doubt is Mewtwo. If Arceus somehow appears later on and doesn't even recognize Ash and Co, then it's safe to say that Arceus is also not one of a kind. As for Ho-Oh, let's wait until Movie 13 before we can say that it's one of a kind (If it doesn't recognize Ash, then it's safe to say it's not one of a kind.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 02:15, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

::Wow. I wasn't asking for a "Your wrong, stupid." type of response. We're trying to clear things up, not get into a fight. But since you want an argument for my point... For Celebi, the concept of time in the Pokémon universe, both games and movies, isn't immediate. In PMD2, you don't disappear right away. You still have like, a minute before you start to go away after correcting time. In Movie 12, it took forever for Ash and co. to nearly disappear, which they didn't. Celebi would have enough time to come back to heal itself. And who said it died anyways? It would also know when it would need to heal itself since it's a time travellor, and has basically the same powers that Dialga has, except they're not as massively powerful. There also isn't more than one Palkia, Dialga, or Arceus, as they're the only ones that are in existance. Dialga lives in a dimension outside of time, and Palkia controls all dimensions, except for Dialga's and Arceus'. It doesn't really matter if Palkia and Dialga recognize Ash and co. in the anime, because the anime =/= the movies. And from what I can tell, they don't do anything anyways. Cyrus captures them, and then the Lake trio free them and they go away. And there isn't more than one of each of the Lake trio, because there's... wait for it... ''three'' lakes for the ''three'' Lake guardians, and ''three'' {{tt|gifts|emotion, willpower, knowledge}} to humans. And so what if it appears that Team Rocket has Rayquaza? That was only in the intro to Movie 9 to show that there's evil in the Pokémon world. As for Groudon and Kyogre, again, anime =/= movies. Can't stress that enough. Those anime episodes were directly based off of R/S. There isn't any movie that's based specifically off of any part of a game. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 03:08, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

:::If Anime=/=Movies, then you shouldn't have even cited the movies in the first place (In other words, you shouldn't have cited Darkrai's appearances, as well as the other Legendary Pokémons appearances.). As for who said it had died, the mere fact that even the newly purified healing spring wasn't able to heal it implied that it had died. And for the record, I wasn't calling you stupid nor even implying that you were. And another thing, just because there are three lakes in Sinnoh that hold the pixie trio does not mean that there cannot be more than one Pixie trio. It was earlier implied that there was only one Mew left in existance, yet it was later made clear that there were actually two mews. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 03:42, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
::::Isn't there more than one Dialga, Palkia, and Giratina because of every Gen. IV game having them, but in different ways. HeartGold and SoulSilver has Arceus create one on the spot while DPPt has one already there. Doesn't that mean they are debatable? [[User:Turtwig A|Turt]][[wig]] [[Turtwig (Pokémon)|A]] ([[User talk:Turtwig A|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|contribs]]) 02:23, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
:::::I really don't think any of this matters actually. The only part that talks about unique legendaries, other than that one sentence, is the bottom where it lists the different in-battle music. I would say more, except I know Mchairybug will contradict everything I say. That's why I've stopped talking about it. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 05:09, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

===Definitively===
We can only say without a doubt that Mewtwo is unique in the anime. Arceus, the dragon trio, and the lake trio are presumed due to their link to the universe's creation. The rest, we can't say definitively, though we can more or less assume there's been only one Ho-Oh we've ever seen (Ash indicates it), and the weather trio's important roles also seem to point to there being only one of each.

Also, don't, ''don't'' think in the game sense in the anime. Also, the movies are canon, Ash-haters, find another thing he's not worthy of to rip on him for... like Gible or something. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 09:01, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

It's notable though that in "Mewtwo Strikes Back" Mew is refered in the single sense by many trainers(Such as saying "Mewtwo was cloned from Mew" instead of "Mewtwo was cloned from A Mew"). It could be that this Mew is ether the last one of the Mew kind, or just the Mew that's DNA was used to make Mewtwo. It's impossible to say though, since the movie never expands on this fact.--[[User:Dsman195276|Dsman195276]] 04:23, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

== Wobbuffett in the trivia section ==
Wobbuffett is not a legendary, but it along with Garchomp are the only non-legendary pokémon to be considered uber in competitive battling {{unsigned|Rocklee clone}}
:Unofficial tiers of competitive battling is irrelevant to this article. There's no need to mention Wobbuffet here. --[[User:ElectAbuzzzz|'''electAbuzz''']][[User talk:ElectAbuzzzz|'''z''']][[Special:Contributions/ElectAbuzzzz|'''z''']] 21:27, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

== Trivia; Other languages ==

So, I was looking on the French analog site (Poképédia) and noticed that there are only six legendaries that have had their name changed. (As far as I can tell, only a few of the non legendary pokémon retain the same english name.) They are: Zapdos (Électhor), Moltres (Sulfura), and Articuno(Artikodin); and Azelf(Créfadet), Mesprit(Créfollet), and Uxie(Créhelf).
Does this count as trivia?--[[User:Lamb|Lamb]]''([[User talk:Lamb|talk]])'' 00:34, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
:This is already mentioned in the article's trivia section.;)--[[User:Beligaronia|Beligaronia]] ([[User talk:Beligaronia|talk]]) 01:14, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
::Whoops. Didn't see that.--[[User:Lamb|Lamb]]''([[User talk:Lamb|talk]])'' 06:02, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

== In Game Re-battle ==

I know from elsewhere on this site that (in HGSS at least) if the legendary beasts are KO'd in battle, they can be 'revived' and battled again (for example, if you KO suicune, it'll keep reapearing in Burnt Tower until it's caught). I was just wondering which other legendaries can also be rebattled if they're KO'd? --[[User:Oatzy|Oatzy]] 23:56, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
:I believe it is any Pokémon that appears as a one-time capture, and you have to (re)battle the Elite Four in order to reset them. I know it works on Sudowoodo. On a similar note, I would like to know if its nature, IVs, etc. are reset when it reappears, particularly in regard to the roaming Pokémon. Giratina's stats were reset in Platinum. --[[User:JacobCrystal|JacobCrystal]] 19:33, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

== Champion Cynthia's team. ==

Did anyone else notice the groupings in http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Legendary_Pok%C3%A9mon#Other_Pok.C3.A9mon_of_myth ?

Out of the eleven bullet points on that list, Cynthia uses pokemon from five points, exactly one pokemon for each of those five points.
The groupings aren't exactly hewn in stone, though, so it's hardly trivia worthy. --[[User:PLA|PLA]] 09:26, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

== Reshiram and Zekrom ==

{{u|MAGNEDETH}} made the completely understandable decision to lock down this page to curb speculation, but Reshiram and Zekrom are confirmed to be legendaries by the Japanese site: http://www.pokemon-sp.jp/top.html [[User:Drapion|Drapion]] 20:48, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
:I'll be adding them later on. This whole damn page has been in cleanup for a couple months now, but I've been distracted. I'll finish editing it tomorrow and finally add them, under a Generation V header, tomorrow. Er. Today. I guess. It's early. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 10:19, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

== Zoroark? ==

Should Zoroark be in Other Pokémon of myth?? Or do we need to wait till the movie has actually premiered so we know exactly what he/she/it is or done?
:Wait till the movie comes out. We don't know much about Zoroark's role, yet. [[User:Takharii|<sc>Takharii</sc>]] '''~''' [[User talk:Takharii|<sc>Talk!</sc>]] 08:57, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
::Again, likely to be at least mentioned when I finish my cleanup of this damned thing. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 10:22, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
:::Is the fact that both Zorua and Zoroark event-''only'' sufficient to declare them Legendary? I'm not sure, but I believe that all pokémon available ''only'' through events are Legendary. I'm honestly not sure, however, if that is distinction enough for to be considered Legendary. [[User:Lostdrewid|Lostdrewid]] 07:29, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
::::It's a bit too soon to say that it is definitely a legendary. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 09:29, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
:::::I'm not convinced it is, though. Are they not, by definition, 幻のポケモン? They're almost even more illusory than Mew, Celebi and the like - not only are they event-only, but you need to attend said event ''prior to the launch of the games''. I ask this honestly, but... if that isn't the very picture of a Legendary Pokémon, what is? If what they are is not sufficient to be declared Legendary, then perhaps the article will need a tighter definition. Please do not misunderstand me, I'm not simply trying to be a nag [although I apologize, I realize I must sound like I am], I'm asking specifically because it seems to be that the status of these two is sort of at the crux of the definition of what it means to be Legendary and thus relevant, one way or another, to the article.
:::::Let me see if I can word my thoughts better. The article discusses the definition of Legendary at the introduction, before the TOC; the first section mentions common characteristics of being Legendary. What we have for these two matches the definition provided in the introduction; what we ''don't'' have for these two is a match, or lack of a match, with the common characteristics. Regardless of whether we are ultimately "right" about their Legendary status, if we say we don't have enough information to declare them Legendary, then maybe should the common characteristics [or some of them, whichever are truly defining] be considered as a part of the definition and moved to the introduction of the article?
:::::My goal here is ''not'' simply to see that Zorua and Zoroark be placed on the article. My goal is to see the article improve. I know, I know, it's a Featured Article and thus is considered awesome by the community - because, well, it is:) - but that doesn't mean that even an awesome article has no room to grow. In my original comment, I said plainly, I don't know whether being event only is sufficient to be called Legendary... but I ''shouldn't'' not know. Does that make sense?
:::::I'm sorry that I'm not good with words. I fear I'm going to be misunderstood here. Text only shows so little of meaning that misunderstandings are simple. I'm not trying to be critical, I'm not trying to say the article is bad. It not only isn't bad, I'll happily reiterate that it's awesome. But ultimately, if the legendary status of these two Pokémon is still in question, then the article's definition of legendary needs tightening. [[User:Lostdrewid|Lostdrewid]] 16:49, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
::::::TTE, let me also say that in no way are the arguments I've presented mean I am impatient to see the article updated. I completely understand that you're not a machine whose sole job in life is to update this site :) If this page is not updated until long after B&W comes out, I will not be upset. My sole desire is to see the article be as good as it can be. I feel that I do not have the proper words to contribute directly, even if the article was unlocked, so this is the only way that I feel I ''can'' contribute right now. [[User:Lostdrewid|Lostdrewid]] 17:04, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
:::::::I'd like to know where it's been confirmed that Zorua and Zoroark are ''only'' obtainable through the special events in BW? For all we know, Zorua and Zoroark will also be able to obtained in-game by normal means (wild encounter, NPC gift, etc.), it's just that the event ones are special for whatever reason.
:::::::Unless Spiky-eared Pichu is considered legendary now. :P [[User:Umeko|梅子]][[User talk:Umeko|❀]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|✿]] 18:40, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

Can anyone inform me why Zoroark/Zorua isn't counted a legendary? Thanks. [[User:Marlowe|Marlowe]] 18:45, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
:It's not at the end of the dex (Victini does not count) and it evolves from another Pokemon [[User:Ataro|Ataro]] 18:49, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

==plagiarism?==

I fear that content from this page has been copied onto this page. http://pokemonorg.wetpaint.com/page/Groups+of+Legendary+Pokemon
and maybe loads of other original bulbapedia content has been hoarded. can any one look into this?mods?admins? {{unsigned|AGGRON999}}
:Thanks, I'll take a look into it. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 11:12, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
::Even if the articles are original the images are taken directly from Bulbapedia and in fact link here when one clicks on the image.--[[User:Beligaronia|Beligaronia]] ([[User talk:Beligaronia|talk]]) 05:01, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
:::Yeah, the links go here too. I've spoken with the site owner and he's yet to get back to me. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 10:50, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
::::Thanks. :D

== Huh? ==

Um, actually, Heatran is ''not'' the only legendary Pokémon with a variable gender. There's also Spiritomb. --[[User:Jade 2010|Green Jade]] 20:49, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
:Spiritomb isn't legendary.--[[User:MisterE13|Mister]][[User talk:MisterE13|'''E''']][[Special:Contributions/MisterE13|13]] 20:50, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Well then why is Spiritomb so hard to obtain? --[[User:Jade 2010|Green Jade]] 20:58, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
:Feebas isn't a legendary, but it's almost equally hard to obtain as Spiritomb... they just choose to make some Pokemon difficult to obtain, and some easy to obtain. Adds variety, you know? ▫▫'''[[User:Tina|ティナ]]'''[[User talk:Tina|♫]][[Special:Contributions/Tina|★]] 21:02, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Also, Spiritomb are able to breed. Just sayin' [[User:Bttsstewart|Bttsstewart]] 03:09, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

== SIX Legendaries changed names? ==
Uxie's name is the same in Japanese and English; the lack of Y is just localization and doesn't affect pronunciation (it's no more different - in fact, less so - than Lucario being "Rukario" in Japanese). However, the article says ''six'' legendary Pokemon changed names (the other five, of course, being Articuno, Zapdos, Moltres, Mesprit, and Azelf.) --[[User:HeroicJay|HeroicJay]] 09:00, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
:I agree, Uxie shouldn't count.--[[User:Pokelova|''Poké'']][[User talk:Pokelova|lova!]] 09:09, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
::Except Lucario's Japanese name is Lucario, it's just spelled as Rukario in katakana. Yuxie>Uxie isn't any less of a change than Dodorio>Dodrio, Donfan>Donphan, or Chicorita>Chikorita. If anything, Houou>Ho-oh and Crecelia>Cresselia should be counted as well. --[[User:Goldenpelt]] 01:59, 30 July 2010 (UTC)
:::I gotta agree there... '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 04:41, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
:::I agree about the Lucario comparison. Uxie's Katakana name is Yukushii, not Yuxie, so it's not the same thing. But it does seem a bit silly to say that they are different names if they are pronounced the same. When they design the official romanji names they aren't thinking about the English audience, so of course it makes sense to change the spelling if they think it helps people of that audience pronounce it correctly. It's still the same name. --[[User:CrimsonChin|CrimsonChin]] 17:57, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

== Victini ==

Shouldn't this little creature be added? Id add it, but alas, I am not allowed *cries*. Or are we awaiting more information on it? --[[User:S2daam|S2daam]] 11:47, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
:It's been added... I just improved some things. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 20:54, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

== Mewtwo and Mew's "Unique Battle Music" ==

I really don't think this point should be in the trivia section; isn't that same re-mixed Kanto music used for the birds and, in FR/LG, for the beasts as well? The music for the weather trio and the elemental Regis is more unique than that.[[User:Starscream|Starscream]] 16:38, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
:They're different remixes. Mewtwo's remix I ''think'' is used for Ho-Oh and Lugia in FRLG, in that event no one got anywhere. Mew's is a completely different remix. The legendary birds also have a different remix. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 05:31, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

== Uniqueness in the games ==

In the trivia section it says "In the games, there appears to only be one of every legendary Pokémon", however that's not entirely true. There's only one you can catch, but I've seen a Zapdos and a Heatran in the Battle Hall in Platinum. --[[User:CrimsonChin|CrimsonChin]] 17:42, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

== Edit request ==

Add {{template|-}} before every generation header. →'''[[User:Axxonn|ΑΧΧΟΝΝ]][[User talk:Axxonn|fi]][[Special:Contributions/Axxonn|re]]''' 22:26, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
:I'm not having any issues, and I'm using a standard monitor. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 07:38, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

== Capitalization ==

*A [http://www.pokemon.com/us/games/videogame-pokemon-ranger-guardian-signs/ recent page] on Pokémon.com mentions it as "Legendary Pokémon," not "legendary Pokémon" (with a capital L). I haven't looked yet, but do other things (games, manga, cards, sites, etc.) mention the term as such? [[User:Tc26/Anime Predictions|tc]][[User:Tc26|²₆]][[User talk:Tc26|tc]][[User:Tc26/Sandbox|26]] 11:31, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

== Takuto ==
I think it's important to include an exmaple Takuto has two legendary Pokemon under the "anime" section, and no ramifications were apparent as a result of him possessing legendary Pokemon. {{unsigned|Datonyp1}}

== Split? ==
With Gen V being released very soon, don't you think this entry might get a bit too big? Perhaps we should split it by Generation. Although it might be somewhat of a shame though... [[User:PDL|PDL]] 03:02, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

== "Deer" (and where in the world is Victini?) ==

I think "deer" is a poor group name for that trio, seeing as the closest animals they resemble are the gazelle, the wildebeest, and the oryx{{tt|*|Okay, I'm actually guessing on this last one}}, all bovids. "Musketeers", while not as descriptive, is a lot less inaccurate, as it groups them by their running theme, and doesn't alienate Keldeo. 
On a different subject, shouldn't Victini have a paragraph in somewhere? --[[User:Kaoz|Kaoz]] 01:56, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

== "Raijin" Trio ==
"Borutorosu, ''Torunerosu'', and Randorosu are a trio of Pokémon based on Japanese Raijin, gods of thunder and lightning"
Torunerosu is most likely based on Fuujin, god of wind {{unsigned|Vienna Waltz}}
:Instead of Raijin, which only applies to Boltros, why not Djinn Trio? They look the part.--[[User:Kaoz|Kaoz]] 19:00, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
::There's also Cloud Trio, seeing that's what they got for a lower half. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * [[User talk:ArcToraphim|the Arc Toraph]] 19:22, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
:::Trios are more often named after their overall appearance rather than a common feature. Speaking of which, I did some research and the djinns seem to take visual cues from {{wp|oni}} (Japanese ogre-demons), more notably their facial features and horns. So that'd leave us with the Djinn and Oni alternatives.--[[User:Kaoz|Kaoz]] 22:03, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
::::"More often" doesn't mean "we should consider that first." Obviously the weather trio, lunar duo, Lake Guardians, tower duo all take what they're known for and uses those names. If they aren't djinn or demons in general, why refer to them as such (considering they're based on gods and nothing Middle Eastern)? Birds are birds, beasts are beasts, and Musketeers are French (otherwise, they might have been the Righteous Quartet). Call them the Kami trio, and you're way more accurate than Djinn. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * [[User talk:ArcToraphim|the Arc Toraph]] 23:23, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
:::::Sounds fair, but how descriptive is the word Kami? Not saying Oni was a better suggestion, in fact it suffers from the same problem of neither being widespread in use nor part of the game lore. Names like birds and beasts are simple and descriptive at the same time, because everyone knows what a bird is. Even the golem has been integrated into the general culture pool. Terms like Kami and Oni are known among the Otaku subculture, but once you step out of it, few people will look at the name and think of them. I don't know if Djinn has overcome the limits of the gaming subculture, but if that weren't the case, I'd be all for a name that did, such as ogre or genie.--[[User:Kaoz|Kaoz]] 02:57, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
::::::Kami itself is a broad term that encompasses "gods" with religious connotations. It's general enough that it's likely to have extended itself beyond Otakuism, and if not, one punch into Google gives the Wiki article on Kami as the first result. They're not based on genies or demons. They're based on Raijin, Fuujin, and Inari...which are Shinto gods. Kami. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * [[User talk:ArcToraphim|the Arc Toraph]] 13:09, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
:If we were to go for a specific god, wouldn't it make more sense to use Fuujin, as they're all part Flying-type? --[[User:Goldenpelt|Gοlden]][[User talk:Goldenpelt|pelt]] 23:48, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
::It shouldn't be a specific god, only because they aren't all based around that god. The flying-type is because, yeah, they're gods and they fly. It's not specifically relative to Fuujin that they can. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * [[User talk:ArcToraphim|the Arc Toraph]] 13:49, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
So now there's a page entitled [[Raijin trio]]. Is that really what we'll be calling them from now on? I thought the argument for calling them the Kami trio was the most convincing. --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] 18:51, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
:This is why I liked the wiki when it was locked. We could come to a consensus on sensitive stuff like legendary trio names ''before'' someone made the articles, such as the case with the trio of {{p|Reshiram}}, {{p|Zekrom}}, and {{p|Kyurem}}. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 19:11, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
::'''They''', btw, could be the Tao Dragons. Yin, Yang, Wu? That's Taoism. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * [[User talk:ArcToraphim|the Arc Toraph]] 21:54, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
::Toa/Dao Dragons is a good idea. Yeah, I think Kami Trio (Or possibly a Nature Trio) is much better than singling out the first in the Pokedex as the name. [[User:Vik0z0z|vik0z0z]] 18:51, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

== About Energy Dragon Trio ==
I can't edit talk page there so I make here, I found something on the name
ReshiRAM, ZekROM, KyuREM (RAM-ROM-REM)[[User:Arceus Vs Dragon Trio|Arceus Vs Dragon Trio]] 11:45, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

Right...but what does 'RAM-ROM-REM' mean? Or is the "interesting" bit that all their names end it a consonent made of an R and M with a vowel in between> :-/ [[User:Bttsstewart|Bttsstewart]] 03:13, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
:RAM is random-access memory, REM is rapid eye movement and ROM is read-only memory?--[[User:Pokelova|''Poké'']][[User talk:Pokelova|lova!]] 03:35, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
::"REM, a keyword for an inline comment in some computer languages", so yeah [[User:Vienna Waltz|Vienna Waltz]] 12:30, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
:::Yeah, I think he's just pointing out the name similarities. --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] 13:02, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

== Stat Averages ==
Would it be reasonable if someone added statistical averages like how each of the typings have? Just so we can get a good idea on what the average Legendary seems to have for stats? If anybody sees this as a good idea then how do I add it into the article? [[User:Shiramu Kuromu|Shiramu Kuromu]] 21:10, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
:That would be a good idea. Add up each stat, divide by the number of legendaries and put them in {{template|BaseStatNoCat}}. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 21:22, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
::Thanks I'll add that when I get time to sometime tommorow. [[User:Shiramu Kuromu|Shiramu Kuromu]] 23:19, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
:::Just posting the averages I got figured out here until I have all of them calculated (Note: Includes Alt Formes and Phione).
:::HP: 92.89

:::Attack: 86.11

:::Defense: 85.28

:::Special Attack: 124.45

:::Special Defense: 90.65

:::Speed: 99.72

:::So far I'm predicting high average Special based stats. Once I get everything else calculated I'll get the averages posted on the article, though while you posted the template for it I have absolutely no clue how to set it up. x-x Edit: Looks like I'm right about the Special part. [[User:Shiramu Kuromu|Shiramu Kuromu]] 19:57, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Nevermind about how to use them, used the Dragon Type page as a reference for these. Is it working correctly? Do I need to round them to whole numbers (The fully evolved averages for types displayed them like this though)?
===Statistical averages{{tt|*|Considering Alternate Formes as seperate Pokémon}}===
{{BaseStatNoCat|
HP=92.89 |
Attack=86.11 |
Defense=85.28 |
SpAtk=124.45 |
SpDef=90.65 |
Speed=99.72 }}
[[User:Shiramu Kuromu|Shiramu Kuromu]] 20:29, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
:Looking good. Feel free to incorporate that into the page when you're ready. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 21:12, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
::Can you get the bars to align to the right so that they are affecting in length by the numbers to the left of them? [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 00:27, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't know how to set it up like that. Though I do have to redo the totals since Phione is know confirmed not to be a legendary, so I'll figure out how to do that when I get he chance. [[User:Shiramu Kuromu|Shiramu Kuromu]] 17:11, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
::::I see, maybe you could move the bars all the way to the right? [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 20:16, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Featured Article ==

The article "Legendary Pokémon" has been a featured article for a while now. Doesn't anyone think it should give another article a chance? [[User:Pokedex493|Pokedex493]] 18:28, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
:I agree, there are plenty other articles out there? [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 19:26, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
::Yeah. Does anybody else agree? [[User:Pokedex493|Pokedex493]] 19:37, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Feel free to [[BP:FAC|nominated one]]. There is no limit to how many featured articles Bulbapedia can have. As long as this one is still high quality, it will stay featured and we will add more to the list. (Which reminds me, I need to close the current nominations.) —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 09:33, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

== Mythical Pokémon ==
With the commercials for Victini airing now, as well as the Celebi Distribution's page on the HeartGold and SoulSilver website, would it be a good guess to assume that TPCi considers Mythical Pokémon to be the translated term of "Illusory Pokémon"?--[[User:Purimpopoie|Purimpopoie]] 00:34, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
:Apparently, Mythical Pokémon is now used to refer to any legendary. [http://pokebeach.com/#legendary-pokemon-renamed-to-mythical-pokemon See here. I think a page moving might be in order.] - ''unsigned comment from [[User:Missingno. Master|Missingno. Master]] ([[User talk:Missingno. Master|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Missingno._Master|contribs]])'' 21:27, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
::Makes sense since in the anime Dratini was specifically stated to be legendary so they gotta rename legendaries... xD [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 22:04, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
:::Remember the Japanese games do actually use several different terms for 'legendary Pokémon'. It looks like the English translations are finally going to recognise that and do the same. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] [[User talk:Werdnae|(talk)]] 22:10, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
::::I agree on the move. If this is going to be standard, then we should change to reflect this. --[[User:Jonouchi|Jonouchi]] 23:14, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
:::::At most I think there should be a redirect that leads here... >.> [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 23:32, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
::Should be split. Reshizek are still legendary. The legendary Pokémon template should be divided, so it's one template, but maybe it should look like this:
|Legendary: Reshiram - Zekrom
Unova|
|Mythical: Victini - Other Stuff

[[User:TorchicBlaziken|TorchicBlaziken]] ([[User_talk:TorchicBlaziken|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/TorchicBlaziken|edits]]) 00:46, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
::::I... guess? Just as long as Victini and the others are not even ''once'' called legendary officially... [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 03:22, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
:I believe Mythical Pokémon is now the official translation for '''幻のポケモン''', as Celebi, Victini, Arceus and many others are all official called 幻のポケモン by the official Japanese website, and Reshiram and Zekrom and many others are called 伝説のポケモン. Now Mythical Pokémon and Legendary Pokémon is different.--[[User:Swampert|Swampert]] 13:46, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
::Well... seeing as how Bulbapedia ''is'' '''for''' fluff and unconfirmed info, I guess we might as well do this? By for I mean when told that something is fluff and unconfirmed people get called an idiot for not believing it to be true regardless of there being no proof of it whatsoever. [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 22:54, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Victini was called a ''Mythical Pokémon'', while Raikou, Entei, Suicune, Reshiram and Zekrom are still being called ''Legendary Pokémon''. Probably, they finally split the classification, like in Japanese: '''Legendary Pokémon''' (伝説のポケモン ''densetsu no Pokémon'') and '''Mythical Pokémon''' (幻のポケモン ''maboroshi no Pokémon''). - [[User:Taylor|Taylor]] 23:38, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
::I feel at this point in time it is time to restate what Dratini was called, 伝説のポケモン, Legendary Pokémon. [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 23:42, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

I for one vote that event Pokémon should be moved to Mythical Pokémon due to TCPi using a new term for the Pokémon that is given out by event.Anyone agree on this ? [[User Talk:LucarioWolf|'''Lucario''']][[User:LucarioWolf|'''Wolf''']] 23:50, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

It seems that's it. Event Legendaries were called ''maboroshi'' in Japanese and now they got their own classification in English... because Celebi and Arceus are being called ''Mythical'', too. - [[User:Taylor|Taylor]] 23:52, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
:Ah so then are we moving Dratini to Legendary Pokemon status? Since that is what it is called? [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 00:01, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
::Once, in the anime, ages ago. I'm talking about the recent, official use. - [[User:Taylor|Taylor]] 00:56, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
:::More like twice if you count Dragonite, but when it was called that does not change the fact it was called that. Also, how is the anime unofficial? [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 01:33, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
::::Was the Dratini line ever actually called "legendary" or such using the Japanese terms? [[User:Frugali|Frugali]] 01:37, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
:::::Well... not Dragonair specifically... [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 01:50, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
Okay this is driving me crazy, do we have any real confirmation that the new term is Mythical Pokemon or that the two will be used seperately? Why can't we wait 'till the games come out and if all of the 'legendaries' are called Mythical Pokémon, then <s>I'm going to have to kill someone</s> we can move it. If only some of them are called Mythical and some of them are Legendary, then we will have to rethink our classification of Legendary and Mythical Pokémon (what makes one legendary and the other mythical. Hopefully, they'll all stay as legendaries and we can move on with our lives. :P --[[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']]''' 02:09, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
:Considering the current events... Raikou, Entei, Suicune, Reshiram and Zekrom '''were deemed Legendary'''; Victini, Celebi and Arceus '''were deemed Mythical'''. Pretty simple to me: normal gameplay ones are Legendaries, event-exclusive ones are Mythical. Just like Japanese ''densetsu'' and ''maboroshi''. - [[User:Taylor|Taylor]] 02:32, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
::''By that logic'', Dratini and Dragonite '''were deemed Legendary''', just saying. [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 10:38, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
:::Okay, like it or not Dratini and Dragonite are not legendary. Dragonite is [[Pseudo-legendary]] but that's as close as they get. On the other note, I'd say wait 'till the games come out in a week or two before making any bold descisions. --[[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']]''' 01:22, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
::::Oh hey I agree, thank you for understanding my point, Dratini and Dragonite are not legendary just because they were called that, exactly why just because someone calls a couple pokemon mythical instead of legendary does not automatically make them not legendary but a new subtype of legendary called mythical. [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 02:51, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

=== Victini, Celebi, and Arceus ===
*I've been to the mall tour and in the "Introduction to Unova" that they show before entering the "Video Game Experience" area, the Narrator says, "Wow! It's ''the Mythical Pokémon Victini''! They say it has the power to bring victory." as Victini appears on the screen. And on the 13th page of the Tour Book given out during the mall tour about the distribution of the [[Liberty Pass]], it identifies Victini as ''the Mythical Pokémon Victini'' twice.

*Celebi is referred to as ''the Mythical Pokémon Celebi'' on [http://www.pokemon.com/us/ Pokémon.com], linking to a [http://www.pokemongoldsilver.com/us/#/news/celebi/ page] about Celebi's distribution at the mall tours and at Game Stop. On that page it refers to Celebi as ''the Mythical Celebi''. At the bottom of the same page, upon click the '6', it refers to the Celebi that the player receives from the deliveryman after it is distributed, as ''the Mythical Pokémon'', rather than just 'Celebi'.

*In an [http://www.pokemon.com/us/news/anim_movie12_dvd-2011-02-04/ announcement] about [[M12|Arceus and the Jewel of Life]] going on DVD, it refers to Arceus as ''the Mythical Pokémon Arceus''.

Mythical Pokémon are most likely Pokémon that can only legitimately be obtained through distributions since this is true for Victini, Celebi, and Arceus, alike.

If my assumption turns out to be correct, all of the following Pokémon are those who I believe will likely be considered Mythical Pokémon:

*{{p|Mew}}
*{{p|Celebi}}
*{{p|Jirachi}}
*{{p|Deoxys}}
*{{p|Phione}} -- The fact that it can only be legitimately obtained by breeding a Ditto and a Manaphy, which the latter of can only legitimately be obtained through distributions, is enough for me to believe that Phione would be a Mythical Pokémon, in this case.
*{{p|Manaphy}}
*{{p|Darkrai}}
*{{p|Shaymin}}
*{{p|Arceus}}
*{{p|Victini}}
*{{p|Zorua}} -- Requires a fateful encounter Pokémon. Seems like good enough a reason to me.
*{{p|Zoroark}} -- Evolved form of an assumed-to-be Mythical Pokémon and requires fateful encounter Pokémon. Again, seems like good enough a reason.
*{{p|Keldeo}} -- Assumed to be available in the future via a distribution. Similar to Shaymin, Darkrai, and Arceus being kept secret at first.
*{{p|Meloetta}} -- Assumed to be available in the future via a distribution. Similar to Shaymin, Darkrai, and Arceus being kept secret at first.
*{{p|Genesect}} -- Assumed to be available in the future via a distribution. Similar to Shaymin, Darkrai, and Arceus being kept secret at first.

-- [[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']]''' 01:12, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
:I would like to disagree in a single point: I think Mythical Pokémon are ''Legendary'' Pokémon that can't be legitimately obtained in normal gameplay. So I disagree on Phione, Zorua and Zoroark, but definitely agree on the rest. - [[User:Taylor|Taylor]] 01:33, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
::What about Victini? has Victini ever been officially called Legendary anywhere? --[[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']]''' 02:02, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
I would like to chime in here, and state that {{p|Dratini}}'s Red, Blue, Yellow, and LeafGreen Pokedex entries state that it is considered a "mythical Pokémon". '''[[User:Blake|Blake]]''' [[User talk:Blake#top|Talk]]·[[Special:Contributions/Blake|Edits]] 21:23, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
:Um, the whole Dratini ordeal was a joke. It's by no means Legendary. It hasn't had a movie. (Yes I know this is an arguable point) It's part of an evolutionary stage. There's way more than just one of them. It probably won't be considered Mythical since it is not Legendary, and it isn't event-exclusive. --[[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']]''' 21:34, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
::So, now that the block is over. What are we gonna do with the whole mythical Pokémon thing? --[[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']]''' 21:47, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

== "Unique" Legendaries in the Anime. ==

All right, I tolerated it when it was present, but after the addition of creatures that obviously weren't considered unique in the Anime (e.g., the Beast Trio from Johto), I think there needs to be a purging in regards to what's counted as unique and what's not.

First off, in regards to uniques, the only one explicitly confirmed to be Unique is Mewtwo. Most of the others are either unconfirmed or explicitly shown to be non-unique and thus should not be listed as such. Also, don't claim that they had some sort of important role in creating something (like creation of the Universe, for example) as a reason to state that they should be unique, because I will remind everyone that the Anime doesn't even care whether the creatures had an important role in creation. For example, Kyogre and Rayquaza was the one who created the Seas as well as the ruler of the skies/mitigator between Groudon and Kyogre's fight, respectively. However, that never stopped them from gaining multiple species, as evidenced with Kyogre reappearing in Movie 9 even though by the time of the movie, the Kyogre they encountered had already went back into slumber at the bottom of the basin, and if Kyogre has multiples, there's a fine bet that Groudon would have multiples as well. Rayquaza has also been shown to reappear three times, with one actually being captured by Team Rocket. Even if all three were the same entity, the mere fact that Kyogre and Groudon (explicitly shown and by proxy, respectively) had multiples meant that Rayquaza would have multiples as well. I mean, no sense in having one have multiples while others in the same trio not have the same multiples, either. Because of this, we can't use the whole "but they helped create Isshu/the Universe" belief as the reason why they are unique. Unless they have explicitly shown that they are unique, they can not be labelled as such, especially not under assumptions. If you have any evidence that suggests that the Legendaries encountered in the Anime are the same (e.g., the legendary in question actually recognizing Ash and co. from a previous encounter), then please add it in with the proper citation. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 20:27, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

== Zekrom and Reshiram ==

Their paragraph states that the two are in constant conflict with one another. This is not true--not only are they sealed away in Stones for many years prior to Black and White, but in Opelucid City, Iris also states that the two "get along so well." [[User:Grei|Grei]] 06:27, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Talk:Legendary Pokémon/Archive2

2011-06-04T06:27:43Z

Grei: /* Zekrom and Reshiram */ new section

[[Talk:Legendary Pokémon/Archive1|Archive #1]]

== WTF? ==

Giratina controls dimensions? That's stupid... can somebody remove that? Time and Space (depth, lengh and width) are the freaking dimensions everyone! So Giratina has more power than both Dialga and Palkia? I think not. Remember that Giratina lives in the Distortion World... a place that disobeys the laws of Time and Space. '''[[User:Hfc2x|hfc]][[User talk:Hfc2x|2X]]''' 22:26, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

There are 2 types of dimensions, matematical, which you were talking about, and spacial, which would be under Giratina's control. If you don't belive me, look up "Plane (metaphysics)" on Wikipedia. The dimensions that Giratina controls are '''alternate planes of exictence''', also called '''dimensions'''!- ''unsigned comment from {{u|GuyNamedSean}} ([[User talk:GuyNamedSean|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/GuyNamedSean|contribs]]){{ #if: | {{{2}}} |}}''
:It seems that Giratina can control gravity, or atleast that is how I enterpreted the explanation of its form shift. It also makes some sense because gravity could be considered a third factor in time-space [[User:Enigmaberry|Enigmaberry]] 02:29, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

:I agree with hfc2X, this needs to be changed. It was never officially stated anywhere that Giratina controls dimensions or anything at all, really. If you guys are going to write up fan speculation, you can at least, you know, actually make a note of that. [[User:Marlowe|Marlowe]] 02:17, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

:An additional note, after editing the page a few times I noticed that only established users are allowed to make changes, my mistake there. Still, this needs to be changed for accuracy. [[User:Marlowe|Marlowe]] 02:30, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
::You do realize that this talk section is from BEFORE Platinum was released in English, right? '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 02:34, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
::What does that have to do with anything? Whether it's from one day or even five years ago, it doesn't change the fact that a change still needs to be made. As an encyclopedia, this doesn't need fanon crap. [[User:Marlowe|Marlowe]] 02:36, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
:::Because Platinum confirmed it. Duh. '''~ platinum[[User:Sol|s]][[User talk:Sol|o]][[Special:Contributions/Sol|l]]''' 02:37, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
::::Prove it, then. [[User:Marlowe|Marlowe]] 02:38, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
:::::Disprove it, then. '''~ platinum[[User:Sol|s]][[User talk:Sol|o]][[Special:Contributions/Sol|l]]''' 02:39, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
::::::It is also said in the Distortion World by Cyrus about Giratina's control over dimensions...I'm way, way ahead of that, otherwise I'd give you the exact quote.--[[User:PsychicRider|'''Psychic''']][[User talk:PsychicRider|'''Rider''']]''''[[Special:Contributions/PsychicRider|'''☮''']]'' 02:39, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
:::::My bad. I forgot. Giratina can't go between dimensions, or drag people into the Distorted World, or anything like that. Sorry. I guess it has no real power. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 02:40, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
:::::::Spare me the reverse psychology, Sol, you said that Platinum confirmed it and I'm telling you to point to me where that was specifically confirmed. You're the one making false claims, not me. It was never stated that Giratina controls dimensions, this is FAN SPECULATION which is something that Bulbapedia frowns on if I'm not mistaken. At least it's something they should be frowning upon. [[User:Marlowe|Marlowe]] 02:45, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
::::::::If you can't prove that it hasn't been proved, then it's useless to try and say that it's fan speculation. PsychicRider has confirmed it, so no, it's not fan speculation. '''~ platinum[[User:Sol|s]][[User talk:Sol|o]][[Special:Contributions/Sol|l]]''' 02:46, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
:::::::::Quit acting like a politician and disprove it. You're avoiding what somebody tells you that goes against what you're trying to say. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 02:49, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
:Sol, you're the one who's in a position to prove something, not me. I basically asked "Where was that confirmed?" and you've yet to answer that question. I would like the specific quote of Cyrus stating this, though, as I don't recall it. [[User:Marlowe|Marlowe]] 02:53, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
::I'm way past that, as in Battle Frontier past, but I do remember that it is confirmed from Cyrus's dialogue. --[[User:PsychicRider|'''Psychic''']][[User talk:PsychicRider|'''Rider''']]''''[[Special:Contributions/PsychicRider|'''☮''']]'' 02:59, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
:::So I'm apparently supposed to conveniently be at the point in time where Cyrus says that specific quote. '''~ platinum[[User:Sol|s]][[User talk:Sol|o]][[Special:Contributions/Sol|l]]''' 03:02, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
::::No, this isn't a perfect quote, but: "Hmm... so Giratina disappeared into the real world... it doesn't matter. I'll capture it, and then I'll use the dimensional powers of Giratina to form a new world here and destroy the real one." '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 03:06, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
:::::I believe that's the quote I was looking for...boys, we have our proof. :D. --[[User:PsychicRider|'''Psychic''']][[User talk:PsychicRider|'''Rider''']]''''[[Special:Contributions/PsychicRider|'''☮''']]'' 03:08, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

:::::In that case (if that was explicitly stated), I stand corrected. Thanks. [[User:Marlowe|Marlowe]] 03:10, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
::::::Don't mention it. It only took me 30 minutes to think of. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 03:13, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

:Not to sound like a broken record here, but I've just gotten through the Distortion World on my second run-through and Cyrus doesn't make that statement anywhere. I even saved right before the battle with Giratina to see what Cyrus would say in both scenarios (catching Giratina or defeating it), but the dialogue only changes slightly and there's still no explicit mention of it having control over dimensions. Besides, aren't space and time dimensions as well? Judging from some of the official interviews on Giratina I've just read, I'm more inclined to say that Giratina simply controls antimatter. If I'm not mistaken, antimatter IS considered to be the third factor out of time and space, after all. I propose that we take "dimensions" out of the sentence. [[User:Marlowe|Marlowe]] 08:22, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
::I watched a Youtube video and saw the same thing. But no. Dimensions isn't coming out. The descriptions aren't just for the games, but also the anime/movies you have to remember. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 12:30, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

== Bubbly Mew ==

Wherever I go, whatever I read that's about Mew or the first movie, it says something like "The Bubbly Mew appeared in the first move", or something like that. Now, why is it called "Bubbly Mew" and why is it just the Mew in the first movie? And where did that term of Bubbly Mew ever come from?--[[User:Dragonbeastx|DRAGON]][[User talk:Dragonbeastx|BEAST]][[User:Dragonbeastx/The Aura Spot|X]] 22:25, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
:Maybe it's that the Mew in the first movie enjoyed making bubbles. [[user:Simpsonsdude13| SD13 Simpsondude13>''']][[user talk:Simpsonsdude13|SD13 Talk]] 20:44, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
==Phione?==
Does Phione really count? And why not Unown? I always thought of the symbols as legends. Me and my fellow torchics agree on this - Sk8torchic
:Phione counts because to get one you have to breed a legendary. Unown doesn't because it's extremely distant from any other legendary. Note the beasts and the birds. Sure they're separated by the powerhouses and events by Dratini and Larvitar's families, but they're next to each other and divided from the others by no more than three Pokémon. Unown has 50 down and 42 up. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 23:41, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
::So all legends have to be near each other in the pokedex? Since when? Me and my fellow torchics agree on this - Sk8torchic 16:07, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

:::Besides, nobody would buy Unown being legendary, what with how they're found all over the place in the [[Ruins of Alph]], [[Tanoby Chambers]], and [[Solaceon Ruins]]. Trust me, in the time it takes to breed for one Phione, odds are one could catch 2 PC boxes entirely full of Unown (although there's no guarantee that all 28 forms would be included)...--[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 16:54, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

== Can we really stop saying that Rayquaza is based on a Ziz ==

It really isn't. The closest thing we have to a bird whose wingspan is large enough to block out the sun is Lugia, atleast according to the accounts of an elderly NPC in Ecruteak city.--[[User:Outrage DD|Outrage DD]] 22:05, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
:Well, Groudon isn't a giant hippo...elephant...rhino...''thing''...—[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 23:56, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
::They are both based on the concept of these legendary creatures. Masters of the sky and land respectivly.--[[User:MisterE13|Mister]][[User talk:MisterE13|'''E''']][[Special:Contributions/MisterE13|13]] 00:43, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

== Info ==
Why is {{P|Rotom}} not a legendary?, I'm not complaining, I just want to know why.[[User:Pokemonguy1|Pokemonguy1]] 18:28, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
: *[[Talk:Rotom_(Pok%C3%A9mon)/Archive_1|slaps with a wet Magikarp]]* Archives are your friends. — [[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|THE TROM]] — 01:46, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

because it doesn't have monster stats--[[User:Pokemongirl1|PG1 FTW!]] 15:25, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

:Neither does {{p|Phione}}, and yet it's still a Legendary. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 19:17, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

::That's because {{p|Manaphy|a legendary is needed to obtain it}}. --'''[[User:Theryguy512|Theryguy]][[User Talk:Theryguy512|512]]''' 19:40, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
:::Just a reminder that this is a forums topic.... o_0 Go there, peeps. — [[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|THE TROM]] — 09:38, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

All you need to do to catch it is to press a on a tv during night time. to get a phione, like it was said before, you need to have manaphy and breed it. --[[User:Usyflad10|Usyflad10]] ([[User talk:Usyflad10|talk]]) 23:35, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Rotom can breed; legendary Pokemon cannot. Manaphy being the exception but it's more of a 'novelty' that it produces Phione when it lays an egg. [[User:Bttsstewart|Bttsstewart]] 03:02, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

== Legendary Pokémon group picture ==

I made this: [http://student-kmt.hku.nl/~abel1/PF2pictures/Legendary%20Pok%e9mon.jpg]

I think it'll be nice if it was placed in this article, next to (or instead of) that Entei pic.

Greetz,
Abel
:It's nice really but the thing is that the Johto legends will be getting new artworks soon and, maybe, the admins might not like the signature on the upper right. Also, Deoxys is actually shorter than Mewtwo. [[User:Tc26/Anime Predictions|tc]][[User:Tc26|²₆]][[User talk:Tc26|tc]][[User:Tc26/Sandbox|26]] 12:33, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
::Just a reminder that fan art, I think, is generally frowned on. While that is very impressive, we can't use it here. — [[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|THE TROM]] — 21:06, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

== Latios and Latias ==

So I know that the current pic is better than the last, but I'm pretty sure it's {{tt|fan made.|Copyright info doesn't make it official... it only makes the claim that somebody owns the rights to characters...}} And we aren't supposed to have fan pics on pages. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 21:06, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
:Are you sure about that? That's the same font the Pokémon Company uses, it's in Sugimori's style, ''and'' it has his {{wp|Seal (East Asia)|hanko}} on it...—[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 22:31, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

::{{tt|Who's the girl though?|forgot about this since the database was locked at the time...}} '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 21:09, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
:::Beats me. But that's definitely official. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 21:21, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Latios and Latias should be jhoto legendaries because the movie takes place in jhoto.
[[User:JetanHertz13|JetanHertz13]] 00:18, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
::That's... nice? If you join in a conversation that's like... 5 months old, at least add something important. [[User:The Dark Fiddler|The Dark Fiddler]] - [[User talk:The Dark Fiddler|You enter a poorly lit room...]] 00:54, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
:::Latios and Latias appear in a Johto-era movie because they needed to hype up Hoenn. Der. The Eon duo don't even appear in Johto in HGSS, they're roaming Kanto! And it's '''''JOHTO''''', not Jhoto. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 00:27, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Since Heatran being the first with a variable gender is mentioned, shouldn't it be mentioned that they were the first legendaries to have genders? [[User:Goldenpelt|Goldenpelt]] 08:09, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

== Protection Error? ==

Isn't this page protected? I had no problem editing it, and I'm no admin. --[[User:CuboneKing|CUBONE PWNS]] ([[User talk:CuboneKing|Planet Cubone]] • [[Special:Contributions/CuboneKing|Bone Club]]) [[Cubone (Pokémon)|THE VERY BEST PAGE!]] 20:28, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
:New users are blocked from editing (which, at the current state of the wiki does nothing). Only admins may move the page, though. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 20:31, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
::Ohhhhhhhhh... NOW I get it... --[[User:CuboneKing|CUBONE PWNS]] ([[User talk:CuboneKing|Planet Cubone]] • [[Special:Contributions/CuboneKing|Bone Club]]) [[Cubone (Pokémon)|THE VERY BEST PAGE!]] 20:35, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

== Trivia: Legendary Pokémon Themes ==

It should be noted that in the upcoming games, HeartGold and SoulSilver, that Lugia and Ho-Oh now both have their own, distinct themes in the upcoming games. It was confirmed on the "never before seen footage" on Pokémon Sunday where they revealed meeting Lugia and Ho-Oh in the games. :) From the small clips you can hear, Ho-Oh's theme seems to be very Japanese-percussion based (taiko drums) and Lugia's is very orchestral-dramatics based. {{unsigned|Gimmetokyo}}

I wonder if it's also pertinent to mention that the legendary beasts in HG/SS technically have their own unique themes, as well - or perhaps it would be more accurate to say that they have their own unique remixes of a theme. Either way, their battle music in HG/SS is not shared (identically, at any rate) with any other Pokemon. --[[User:Xatni|Xatni]] 01:07, 2 June 2010 (UTC)Xatni

== New article ==
Since the Legendary Trios and Duos have articles, should the Legendarys without a group (Trio Master's not included) get there own article too? {{unsigned|Blackstone Dresden}}

:If you mean Legendaries like {{p|Mew}}, {{p|Celebi}}, and {{p|Manaphy}}, then no. What would we write that isn't already on their own pages? '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 04:16, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

== Arceus HGSS pic ==

[[Image:Arceus - HGSS Event Artwork.jpg|thumb|left|150px]]
 How about adding it? -- [[User:RikkiKitsune|R<s>ikki</s>]][[User talk:RikkiKitsune|Kitsune]] 21:26, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

If I could, I would!--[[User:The Bulb's Master|The Bulb's Master]] 12:45, 13 August 2009 (UTC) Master of Bulbasaur and Turtwig♀

:I didn't place that one since one for the Azure Flute event would be better. It would be similar to Darkrai and Shaymin. [[User:Tc26/Anime Predictions|tc]][[User:Tc26|²₆]][[User talk:Tc26|tc]][[User:Tc26/Sandbox|26]] 12:49, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

::I'll put it in for now. We can always change it when the Flute event gets its own artwork. We're using the HGSS Beasts artwork aren't we? '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 16:25, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

== Edit! ==
I can't edit, but one of you should include that they can be found in Sinnoh.--[[User:The Bulb's Master|The Bulb's Master]] 12:44, 13 August 2009 (UTC) Master of Bulbasaur and Turtwig♀

== "Legendary" ==
Is the term "legendary" an official descriptor or one applied by the fandom? [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 23:55, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
:Its official. It appears in the games, anime, and all sorts of sources. It even appears in some Pokédex entries. '''[[User:Blake|Blake]]''' [[User talk:Blake#top|Talk]]·[[Special:Contributions/Blake|Edits]] 01:38, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
::Yeah, I've been playing Blue and the first instance of the term "legendary Pokemon" is on Route 14 by a Bird Keeper, for future reference. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 03:45, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

==[[Arcanine]]==
"If you were looking for the "Legendary Pokémon" species, see Arcanine (Pokémon). "
Why does it say that? What does it have to do with anything [[User:Qim1|Qim1]] 00:05, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
:Arcanine's [[species]] name is "Legendary Pokémon". In comparison, Bulbasaur's is "Seed Pokémon". Just on the off-chance that someone thinks Arcanine is actually a Legendary Pokémon, in the sense meant on this page. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 01:28, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
::Arcanine is considered as legendary in Chinese... since many [[Pokédex]] entries says Arcanine is from China.[[User:Palkia38|Palkia38]] 07:09, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

==Pokemon of Legend, Illusion, and Myth==
Is there any source for these categories of legendaries? The main paragraph suggests the Japanese versions identify legendaries differently that was narrowed for translation... What Pokemon are in these various categories, and why? What exactly do the Japanese versions say? [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 03:48, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

==Slowpoke/king==
This may meet with some dissent, but would Slowpoke or Slowking qualify under "Other Pokemon of myth"? Slowpoke is pretty dominantly featured in GSC and HG/SS, as well as the corresponding anime episode, as the savior of Azalea in time of need. He's practically worshiped there. I don't believe this story was ever explicitly stated as fact, but rather as a cultural legend of sorts. That means Slowpoke is featured in a legend, and so possibly counts as a low-tier legendary like Arcanine of Togepi.

Slowking may same to fit the position more, but the extent of its qualification are the second movie. I don't know if human speech, a knowledge of ancient prophecies, and a role in that prophecy coming true/being resolved counts as a legendary, but should also be considered.

So, what are the opinions on counting on or both as minor legendaries? I'll agree to any consensus, but just thought it would be worth bringing up since Slowpoke does garner some "It's a legendary" statements from time to time. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 00:48, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
:Pastoria worships Croagunk. Does that mean it's a minor legendary too? Slowpoke, as far as I know, only gets mentioned as legendary [[User:TTEchidna/Slopoke (that i ran into the other day)|when people are being sarcastic]].--'''[[Water (type)|Liquid]]''' [[Mask of Ice|'''ICE''']] (User:Cold)([[user:Cold|page]], [[User talk:Cold|talk]]) 00:55, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
::I was unaware of Croagunk's position in that area, though that does get me thinking... Slowpoke, Croagunk, and possibly some of the "Other Pokemon of myth" featured here might do well on a "Pokemon of cultural significance" kind of article. I expect gen 5 will introduce at least one new Pokemon that is treated similarly to these two, so at that time it might be feasible to make such an article. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 00:58, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
:::We need more than two Pokémon of culutral significance to make it an article. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 01:02, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
::::Which is why I suggested waiting until gen 5 when another Pokemon may be featured. But, as it stands now, Arcanine, Ninetails, and the Togepi line are strong candidates for such an article. Note that "legendary" is as much a fan-term as a canon one, so creating a corollary term for culturally-significant Pokemon would be ideal as well as alleviate the constant arguing about who is and isn't a legendary, when frankly many of the supposed legendaries ''would'' make more sense in a culture article. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 01:07, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

== Unique Pokemon ==

: So which Pokemon exactly are "unique" besides Mewtwo? I'm just curious. Also, has it ever been '''confirmed''' that Mewtwo is unique? [[User:LugiaRocks|'''LugiaRox''']] 02:34, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
::Well he is the first cloned legendary, first created legendary. But that's probably speculation.--'''[[User:Midnight Blue|Midnight]] [[User talk:Midnight Blue|''Blue'']]''' 03:49, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
::: Mewtwo is a special case. He's not even a "legendary" in the in-universe sense (no associated legends), only in the fanon sense. Discussing what other Pokemon are "unique" is beating a dead horse, since it's been done before and there's no way we can no for sure. Looking at it one way, nearly every Pokemon is unique, but in another way there's room for multiplies. Who knows? As for created Pokemon akin to Mewtwo, I'm sure that area will be explored at some point. Come gen 5, all the loose strings will be tired up. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 03:55, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
:::: I believe we could safely say that Arceus is unique. [[User:LugiaRocks|'''LugiaRox''']] 05:07, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
::::: Arceus is the personification of a concept. There could very well be more than one, with each being an avatar of an incomprehensible concept. It's called pantheism. Hindis practice it. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 05:46, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
::::::Hindu's you moron, hindi is the language they speak in india!--[[User:Minimag|Minimag]] 05:14, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
::::::: Does it really matter? And the term "Hindi" also applies to Hindu literature and culture. Religion/mythology is within the scope of culture, so there you go. I know my use of language. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 05:22, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
::::::::I thought it was polytheism. Anyways, in Hinduism concepts, gods are an aspect of Brahmna, the eternal being, which could be what Arceus could be based on, with the three major aspects of Brahma being legendary trios. Though I doubt this because Nintendo is based in Japan and not India. [[User:Turtwig A|Turt]][[wig]] [[Turtwig (Pokémon)|A]] ([[User talk:Turtwig A|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|contribs]]) 00:31, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
(reset indent)

The non-uniques are:
*Mew ([[Mewtwo Strikes Back]] & [[Lucario and the Mystery of Mew]])
*Lugia ([[The Power of One]], [[Silver (Johto)|Silver]], and possibly Movie 13)
*Regirock, Regice, Registeel ([[Brandon's Regis]] & [[Lucario and the Mystery of Mew]])
*Regigigas ([[Giratina and the Sky Warrior]] & [[DP129]])
*Lati@s ([[Pokémon Heroes]])
*Deoxys ([[Destiny Deoxys]])
*Manaphy ([[Pokémon Ranger and the Temple of the Sea]])
*Phione ([[DP113]])
*Darkrai ([[The Rise of Darkrai]] and [[DP104]])
*Shaymin ([[Giratina and the Sky Warrior]])

Uknown, yet debateable:
*Cresselia - If there's more than one Darkrai, why not Cresselia?
*Heatran - Only one has appeared so far, and even then, it was in the distant past.
*Jirachi - It came from space. We don't know if more are out there like Deoxys and Clefairy.
*The legendary birds - Unlike the beasts, we don't know if there were only 3 specifically created, although it is probable that they're unique.
*The legendary beasts- Although we know that Ho-Oh created 3 from the ashes of Pokémon, Suicune has appeared multiple times and sometimes in different regions. It has appeared in 3 episodes of the anime and one movie. The Entei in [[Spell of the Unown]] was only an illusion created by the Unown.

Unique:
*Mewtwo - It isn't actually a legendary in the anime, just a bad clone of one.
*Ho-Oh - Even though its counterpart, Lugia, is known to be able to have offspring, Ho-Oh seems to be a single Pokémon that travels around.
*Celebi - Although many appeared in [[Pokémon 4Ever]], they were the same Celebi, just from different time periods. The past and future came together in the present.
*Kyogre, Groudon, and Rayquaza - Kyogre and Groudon have appeared in the Team Magma and Team Aqua arc, and Kyogre has appeared in a movie or two. Rayquaza could be argued as having more than one in its species, but it is most likely the only one.
*Azelf, Uxie, and Mesprit - They were created by Arceus to keep Dialga and Palkia in balance.
*Dialga and Palkia - They are the keepers of time and space.
*Giratina - It is the guardian of the Reverse World, an distorted mirror of the Pokémon world. Although it could be argued that because mirror dimensions exist, and there would be Reverse Worlds for each of these mirror dimensions, that is extremely technical and most likely won't be mentioned.
*Arceus - Creator of the Pokémon universe. Not much more to say about that.

If that doesn't clear some things up, I don't know what will. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 22:49, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

:Actually, there is no way that Celebi would be the same Celebi from different time periods (as most of those Celebi [those supposedly from the future] would also not exist if that were the case, since it died.). As for Groudon and Kyogre, it was heavily implied in the end of Scuffle of Legends that they went to sleep again for another age-long rest (almost eternal), and it was also implied that the orbs are the only way they can awake, so it's more likely that Kyogre, at least, has multiples (since unless someone had bonded with the Blue Orb, then Kyogre should not awake, and thus not appear in Movie 9 if it's the same one.). Rayquaza was also implied to be captured by Team Rocket, and it won't make any sense that Rayquaza would be around the atmosphere if it can't get out (which the scene of it's capture implies that it can't escape.) Dialga and Palkia, did they even recognize Ash and co. when they appeared in the Team Galactic Two-Parter? If not, they're definitely not one of a kind, and since Giratina is also part of the same trio, that means it has to have multiples as well. For the Three Pixies, if there are more than one Dialga and Palkia, there are definitely going to be more than one Pixie Trio. So far, the only pokemon to be completely confirmed to be one of a kind without a doubt is Mewtwo. If Arceus somehow appears later on and doesn't even recognize Ash and Co, then it's safe to say that Arceus is also not one of a kind. As for Ho-Oh, let's wait until Movie 13 before we can say that it's one of a kind (If it doesn't recognize Ash, then it's safe to say it's not one of a kind.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 02:15, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

::Wow. I wasn't asking for a "Your wrong, stupid." type of response. We're trying to clear things up, not get into a fight. But since you want an argument for my point... For Celebi, the concept of time in the Pokémon universe, both games and movies, isn't immediate. In PMD2, you don't disappear right away. You still have like, a minute before you start to go away after correcting time. In Movie 12, it took forever for Ash and co. to nearly disappear, which they didn't. Celebi would have enough time to come back to heal itself. And who said it died anyways? It would also know when it would need to heal itself since it's a time travellor, and has basically the same powers that Dialga has, except they're not as massively powerful. There also isn't more than one Palkia, Dialga, or Arceus, as they're the only ones that are in existance. Dialga lives in a dimension outside of time, and Palkia controls all dimensions, except for Dialga's and Arceus'. It doesn't really matter if Palkia and Dialga recognize Ash and co. in the anime, because the anime =/= the movies. And from what I can tell, they don't do anything anyways. Cyrus captures them, and then the Lake trio free them and they go away. And there isn't more than one of each of the Lake trio, because there's... wait for it... ''three'' lakes for the ''three'' Lake guardians, and ''three'' {{tt|gifts|emotion, willpower, knowledge}} to humans. And so what if it appears that Team Rocket has Rayquaza? That was only in the intro to Movie 9 to show that there's evil in the Pokémon world. As for Groudon and Kyogre, again, anime =/= movies. Can't stress that enough. Those anime episodes were directly based off of R/S. There isn't any movie that's based specifically off of any part of a game. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 03:08, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

:::If Anime=/=Movies, then you shouldn't have even cited the movies in the first place (In other words, you shouldn't have cited Darkrai's appearances, as well as the other Legendary Pokémons appearances.). As for who said it had died, the mere fact that even the newly purified healing spring wasn't able to heal it implied that it had died. And for the record, I wasn't calling you stupid nor even implying that you were. And another thing, just because there are three lakes in Sinnoh that hold the pixie trio does not mean that there cannot be more than one Pixie trio. It was earlier implied that there was only one Mew left in existance, yet it was later made clear that there were actually two mews. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 03:42, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
::::Isn't there more than one Dialga, Palkia, and Giratina because of every Gen. IV game having them, but in different ways. HeartGold and SoulSilver has Arceus create one on the spot while DPPt has one already there. Doesn't that mean they are debatable? [[User:Turtwig A|Turt]][[wig]] [[Turtwig (Pokémon)|A]] ([[User talk:Turtwig A|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|contribs]]) 02:23, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
:::::I really don't think any of this matters actually. The only part that talks about unique legendaries, other than that one sentence, is the bottom where it lists the different in-battle music. I would say more, except I know Mchairybug will contradict everything I say. That's why I've stopped talking about it. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 05:09, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

===Definitively===
We can only say without a doubt that Mewtwo is unique in the anime. Arceus, the dragon trio, and the lake trio are presumed due to their link to the universe's creation. The rest, we can't say definitively, though we can more or less assume there's been only one Ho-Oh we've ever seen (Ash indicates it), and the weather trio's important roles also seem to point to there being only one of each.

Also, don't, ''don't'' think in the game sense in the anime. Also, the movies are canon, Ash-haters, find another thing he's not worthy of to rip on him for... like Gible or something. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 09:01, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

It's notable though that in "Mewtwo Strikes Back" Mew is refered in the single sense by many trainers(Such as saying "Mewtwo was cloned from Mew" instead of "Mewtwo was cloned from A Mew"). It could be that this Mew is ether the last one of the Mew kind, or just the Mew that's DNA was used to make Mewtwo. It's impossible to say though, since the movie never expands on this fact.--[[User:Dsman195276|Dsman195276]] 04:23, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

== Wobbuffett in the trivia section ==
Wobbuffett is not a legendary, but it along with Garchomp are the only non-legendary pokémon to be considered uber in competitive battling {{unsigned|Rocklee clone}}
:Unofficial tiers of competitive battling is irrelevant to this article. There's no need to mention Wobbuffet here. --[[User:ElectAbuzzzz|'''electAbuzz''']][[User talk:ElectAbuzzzz|'''z''']][[Special:Contributions/ElectAbuzzzz|'''z''']] 21:27, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

== Trivia; Other languages ==

So, I was looking on the French analog site (Poképédia) and noticed that there are only six legendaries that have had their name changed. (As far as I can tell, only a few of the non legendary pokémon retain the same english name.) They are: Zapdos (Électhor), Moltres (Sulfura), and Articuno(Artikodin); and Azelf(Créfadet), Mesprit(Créfollet), and Uxie(Créhelf).
Does this count as trivia?--[[User:Lamb|Lamb]]''([[User talk:Lamb|talk]])'' 00:34, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
:This is already mentioned in the article's trivia section.;)--[[User:Beligaronia|Beligaronia]] ([[User talk:Beligaronia|talk]]) 01:14, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
::Whoops. Didn't see that.--[[User:Lamb|Lamb]]''([[User talk:Lamb|talk]])'' 06:02, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

== In Game Re-battle ==

I know from elsewhere on this site that (in HGSS at least) if the legendary beasts are KO'd in battle, they can be 'revived' and battled again (for example, if you KO suicune, it'll keep reapearing in Burnt Tower until it's caught). I was just wondering which other legendaries can also be rebattled if they're KO'd? --[[User:Oatzy|Oatzy]] 23:56, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
:I believe it is any Pokémon that appears as a one-time capture, and you have to (re)battle the Elite Four in order to reset them. I know it works on Sudowoodo. On a similar note, I would like to know if its nature, IVs, etc. are reset when it reappears, particularly in regard to the roaming Pokémon. Giratina's stats were reset in Platinum. --[[User:JacobCrystal|JacobCrystal]] 19:33, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

== Champion Cynthia's team. ==

Did anyone else notice the groupings in http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Legendary_Pok%C3%A9mon#Other_Pok.C3.A9mon_of_myth ?

Out of the eleven bullet points on that list, Cynthia uses pokemon from five points, exactly one pokemon for each of those five points.
The groupings aren't exactly hewn in stone, though, so it's hardly trivia worthy. --[[User:PLA|PLA]] 09:26, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

== Reshiram and Zekrom ==

{{u|MAGNEDETH}} made the completely understandable decision to lock down this page to curb speculation, but Reshiram and Zekrom are confirmed to be legendaries by the Japanese site: http://www.pokemon-sp.jp/top.html [[User:Drapion|Drapion]] 20:48, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
:I'll be adding them later on. This whole damn page has been in cleanup for a couple months now, but I've been distracted. I'll finish editing it tomorrow and finally add them, under a Generation V header, tomorrow. Er. Today. I guess. It's early. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 10:19, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

== Zoroark? ==

Should Zoroark be in Other Pokémon of myth?? Or do we need to wait till the movie has actually premiered so we know exactly what he/she/it is or done?
:Wait till the movie comes out. We don't know much about Zoroark's role, yet. [[User:Takharii|<sc>Takharii</sc>]] '''~''' [[User talk:Takharii|<sc>Talk!</sc>]] 08:57, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
::Again, likely to be at least mentioned when I finish my cleanup of this damned thing. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 10:22, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
:::Is the fact that both Zorua and Zoroark event-''only'' sufficient to declare them Legendary? I'm not sure, but I believe that all pokémon available ''only'' through events are Legendary. I'm honestly not sure, however, if that is distinction enough for to be considered Legendary. [[User:Lostdrewid|Lostdrewid]] 07:29, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
::::It's a bit too soon to say that it is definitely a legendary. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 09:29, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
:::::I'm not convinced it is, though. Are they not, by definition, 幻のポケモン? They're almost even more illusory than Mew, Celebi and the like - not only are they event-only, but you need to attend said event ''prior to the launch of the games''. I ask this honestly, but... if that isn't the very picture of a Legendary Pokémon, what is? If what they are is not sufficient to be declared Legendary, then perhaps the article will need a tighter definition. Please do not misunderstand me, I'm not simply trying to be a nag [although I apologize, I realize I must sound like I am], I'm asking specifically because it seems to be that the status of these two is sort of at the crux of the definition of what it means to be Legendary and thus relevant, one way or another, to the article.
:::::Let me see if I can word my thoughts better. The article discusses the definition of Legendary at the introduction, before the TOC; the first section mentions common characteristics of being Legendary. What we have for these two matches the definition provided in the introduction; what we ''don't'' have for these two is a match, or lack of a match, with the common characteristics. Regardless of whether we are ultimately "right" about their Legendary status, if we say we don't have enough information to declare them Legendary, then maybe should the common characteristics [or some of them, whichever are truly defining] be considered as a part of the definition and moved to the introduction of the article?
:::::My goal here is ''not'' simply to see that Zorua and Zoroark be placed on the article. My goal is to see the article improve. I know, I know, it's a Featured Article and thus is considered awesome by the community - because, well, it is:) - but that doesn't mean that even an awesome article has no room to grow. In my original comment, I said plainly, I don't know whether being event only is sufficient to be called Legendary... but I ''shouldn't'' not know. Does that make sense?
:::::I'm sorry that I'm not good with words. I fear I'm going to be misunderstood here. Text only shows so little of meaning that misunderstandings are simple. I'm not trying to be critical, I'm not trying to say the article is bad. It not only isn't bad, I'll happily reiterate that it's awesome. But ultimately, if the legendary status of these two Pokémon is still in question, then the article's definition of legendary needs tightening. [[User:Lostdrewid|Lostdrewid]] 16:49, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
::::::TTE, let me also say that in no way are the arguments I've presented mean I am impatient to see the article updated. I completely understand that you're not a machine whose sole job in life is to update this site :) If this page is not updated until long after B&W comes out, I will not be upset. My sole desire is to see the article be as good as it can be. I feel that I do not have the proper words to contribute directly, even if the article was unlocked, so this is the only way that I feel I ''can'' contribute right now. [[User:Lostdrewid|Lostdrewid]] 17:04, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
:::::::I'd like to know where it's been confirmed that Zorua and Zoroark are ''only'' obtainable through the special events in BW? For all we know, Zorua and Zoroark will also be able to obtained in-game by normal means (wild encounter, NPC gift, etc.), it's just that the event ones are special for whatever reason.
:::::::Unless Spiky-eared Pichu is considered legendary now. :P [[User:Umeko|梅子]][[User talk:Umeko|❀]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|✿]] 18:40, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

Can anyone inform me why Zoroark/Zorua isn't counted a legendary? Thanks. [[User:Marlowe|Marlowe]] 18:45, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
:It's not at the end of the dex (Victini does not count) and it evolves from another Pokemon [[User:Ataro|Ataro]] 18:49, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

==plagiarism?==

I fear that content from this page has been copied onto this page. http://pokemonorg.wetpaint.com/page/Groups+of+Legendary+Pokemon
and maybe loads of other original bulbapedia content has been hoarded. can any one look into this?mods?admins? {{unsigned|AGGRON999}}
:Thanks, I'll take a look into it. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 11:12, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
::Even if the articles are original the images are taken directly from Bulbapedia and in fact link here when one clicks on the image.--[[User:Beligaronia|Beligaronia]] ([[User talk:Beligaronia|talk]]) 05:01, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
:::Yeah, the links go here too. I've spoken with the site owner and he's yet to get back to me. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 10:50, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
::::Thanks. :D

== Huh? ==

Um, actually, Heatran is ''not'' the only legendary Pokémon with a variable gender. There's also Spiritomb. --[[User:Jade 2010|Green Jade]] 20:49, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
:Spiritomb isn't legendary.--[[User:MisterE13|Mister]][[User talk:MisterE13|'''E''']][[Special:Contributions/MisterE13|13]] 20:50, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Well then why is Spiritomb so hard to obtain? --[[User:Jade 2010|Green Jade]] 20:58, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
:Feebas isn't a legendary, but it's almost equally hard to obtain as Spiritomb... they just choose to make some Pokemon difficult to obtain, and some easy to obtain. Adds variety, you know? ▫▫'''[[User:Tina|ティナ]]'''[[User talk:Tina|♫]][[Special:Contributions/Tina|★]] 21:02, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Also, Spiritomb are able to breed. Just sayin' [[User:Bttsstewart|Bttsstewart]] 03:09, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

== SIX Legendaries changed names? ==
Uxie's name is the same in Japanese and English; the lack of Y is just localization and doesn't affect pronunciation (it's no more different - in fact, less so - than Lucario being "Rukario" in Japanese). However, the article says ''six'' legendary Pokemon changed names (the other five, of course, being Articuno, Zapdos, Moltres, Mesprit, and Azelf.) --[[User:HeroicJay|HeroicJay]] 09:00, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
:I agree, Uxie shouldn't count.--[[User:Pokelova|''Poké'']][[User talk:Pokelova|lova!]] 09:09, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
::Except Lucario's Japanese name is Lucario, it's just spelled as Rukario in katakana. Yuxie>Uxie isn't any less of a change than Dodorio>Dodrio, Donfan>Donphan, or Chicorita>Chikorita. If anything, Houou>Ho-oh and Crecelia>Cresselia should be counted as well. --[[User:Goldenpelt]] 01:59, 30 July 2010 (UTC)
:::I gotta agree there... '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 04:41, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
:::I agree about the Lucario comparison. Uxie's Katakana name is Yukushii, not Yuxie, so it's not the same thing. But it does seem a bit silly to say that they are different names if they are pronounced the same. When they design the official romanji names they aren't thinking about the English audience, so of course it makes sense to change the spelling if they think it helps people of that audience pronounce it correctly. It's still the same name. --[[User:CrimsonChin|CrimsonChin]] 17:57, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

== Victini ==

Shouldn't this little creature be added? Id add it, but alas, I am not allowed *cries*. Or are we awaiting more information on it? --[[User:S2daam|S2daam]] 11:47, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
:It's been added... I just improved some things. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 20:54, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

== Mewtwo and Mew's "Unique Battle Music" ==

I really don't think this point should be in the trivia section; isn't that same re-mixed Kanto music used for the birds and, in FR/LG, for the beasts as well? The music for the weather trio and the elemental Regis is more unique than that.[[User:Starscream|Starscream]] 16:38, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
:They're different remixes. Mewtwo's remix I ''think'' is used for Ho-Oh and Lugia in FRLG, in that event no one got anywhere. Mew's is a completely different remix. The legendary birds also have a different remix. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 05:31, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

== Uniqueness in the games ==

In the trivia section it says "In the games, there appears to only be one of every legendary Pokémon", however that's not entirely true. There's only one you can catch, but I've seen a Zapdos and a Heatran in the Battle Hall in Platinum. --[[User:CrimsonChin|CrimsonChin]] 17:42, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

== Edit request ==

Add {{template|-}} before every generation header. →'''[[User:Axxonn|ΑΧΧΟΝΝ]][[User talk:Axxonn|fi]][[Special:Contributions/Axxonn|re]]''' 22:26, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
:I'm not having any issues, and I'm using a standard monitor. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 07:38, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

== Capitalization ==

*A [http://www.pokemon.com/us/games/videogame-pokemon-ranger-guardian-signs/ recent page] on Pokémon.com mentions it as "Legendary Pokémon," not "legendary Pokémon" (with a capital L). I haven't looked yet, but do other things (games, manga, cards, sites, etc.) mention the term as such? [[User:Tc26/Anime Predictions|tc]][[User:Tc26|²₆]][[User talk:Tc26|tc]][[User:Tc26/Sandbox|26]] 11:31, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

== Takuto ==
I think it's important to include an exmaple Takuto has two legendary Pokemon under the "anime" section, and no ramifications were apparent as a result of him possessing legendary Pokemon. {{unsigned|Datonyp1}}

== Split? ==
With Gen V being released very soon, don't you think this entry might get a bit too big? Perhaps we should split it by Generation. Although it might be somewhat of a shame though... [[User:PDL|PDL]] 03:02, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

== "Deer" (and where in the world is Victini?) ==

I think "deer" is a poor group name for that trio, seeing as the closest animals they resemble are the gazelle, the wildebeest, and the oryx{{tt|*|Okay, I'm actually guessing on this last one}}, all bovids. "Musketeers", while not as descriptive, is a lot less inaccurate, as it groups them by their running theme, and doesn't alienate Keldeo. 
On a different subject, shouldn't Victini have a paragraph in somewhere? --[[User:Kaoz|Kaoz]] 01:56, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

== "Raijin" Trio ==
"Borutorosu, ''Torunerosu'', and Randorosu are a trio of Pokémon based on Japanese Raijin, gods of thunder and lightning"
Torunerosu is most likely based on Fuujin, god of wind {{unsigned|Vienna Waltz}}
:Instead of Raijin, which only applies to Boltros, why not Djinn Trio? They look the part.--[[User:Kaoz|Kaoz]] 19:00, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
::There's also Cloud Trio, seeing that's what they got for a lower half. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * [[User talk:ArcToraphim|the Arc Toraph]] 19:22, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
:::Trios are more often named after their overall appearance rather than a common feature. Speaking of which, I did some research and the djinns seem to take visual cues from {{wp|oni}} (Japanese ogre-demons), more notably their facial features and horns. So that'd leave us with the Djinn and Oni alternatives.--[[User:Kaoz|Kaoz]] 22:03, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
::::"More often" doesn't mean "we should consider that first." Obviously the weather trio, lunar duo, Lake Guardians, tower duo all take what they're known for and uses those names. If they aren't djinn or demons in general, why refer to them as such (considering they're based on gods and nothing Middle Eastern)? Birds are birds, beasts are beasts, and Musketeers are French (otherwise, they might have been the Righteous Quartet). Call them the Kami trio, and you're way more accurate than Djinn. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * [[User talk:ArcToraphim|the Arc Toraph]] 23:23, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
:::::Sounds fair, but how descriptive is the word Kami? Not saying Oni was a better suggestion, in fact it suffers from the same problem of neither being widespread in use nor part of the game lore. Names like birds and beasts are simple and descriptive at the same time, because everyone knows what a bird is. Even the golem has been integrated into the general culture pool. Terms like Kami and Oni are known among the Otaku subculture, but once you step out of it, few people will look at the name and think of them. I don't know if Djinn has overcome the limits of the gaming subculture, but if that weren't the case, I'd be all for a name that did, such as ogre or genie.--[[User:Kaoz|Kaoz]] 02:57, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
::::::Kami itself is a broad term that encompasses "gods" with religious connotations. It's general enough that it's likely to have extended itself beyond Otakuism, and if not, one punch into Google gives the Wiki article on Kami as the first result. They're not based on genies or demons. They're based on Raijin, Fuujin, and Inari...which are Shinto gods. Kami. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * [[User talk:ArcToraphim|the Arc Toraph]] 13:09, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
:If we were to go for a specific god, wouldn't it make more sense to use Fuujin, as they're all part Flying-type? --[[User:Goldenpelt|Gοlden]][[User talk:Goldenpelt|pelt]] 23:48, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
::It shouldn't be a specific god, only because they aren't all based around that god. The flying-type is because, yeah, they're gods and they fly. It's not specifically relative to Fuujin that they can. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * [[User talk:ArcToraphim|the Arc Toraph]] 13:49, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
So now there's a page entitled [[Raijin trio]]. Is that really what we'll be calling them from now on? I thought the argument for calling them the Kami trio was the most convincing. --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] 18:51, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
:This is why I liked the wiki when it was locked. We could come to a consensus on sensitive stuff like legendary trio names ''before'' someone made the articles, such as the case with the trio of {{p|Reshiram}}, {{p|Zekrom}}, and {{p|Kyurem}}. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 19:11, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
::'''They''', btw, could be the Tao Dragons. Yin, Yang, Wu? That's Taoism. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * [[User talk:ArcToraphim|the Arc Toraph]] 21:54, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
::Toa/Dao Dragons is a good idea. Yeah, I think Kami Trio (Or possibly a Nature Trio) is much better than singling out the first in the Pokedex as the name. [[User:Vik0z0z|vik0z0z]] 18:51, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

== About Energy Dragon Trio ==
I can't edit talk page there so I make here, I found something on the name
ReshiRAM, ZekROM, KyuREM (RAM-ROM-REM)[[User:Arceus Vs Dragon Trio|Arceus Vs Dragon Trio]] 11:45, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

Right...but what does 'RAM-ROM-REM' mean? Or is the "interesting" bit that all their names end it a consonent made of an R and M with a vowel in between> :-/ [[User:Bttsstewart|Bttsstewart]] 03:13, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
:RAM is random-access memory, REM is rapid eye movement and ROM is read-only memory?--[[User:Pokelova|''Poké'']][[User talk:Pokelova|lova!]] 03:35, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
::"REM, a keyword for an inline comment in some computer languages", so yeah [[User:Vienna Waltz|Vienna Waltz]] 12:30, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
:::Yeah, I think he's just pointing out the name similarities. --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] 13:02, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

== Stat Averages ==
Would it be reasonable if someone added statistical averages like how each of the typings have? Just so we can get a good idea on what the average Legendary seems to have for stats? If anybody sees this as a good idea then how do I add it into the article? [[User:Shiramu Kuromu|Shiramu Kuromu]] 21:10, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
:That would be a good idea. Add up each stat, divide by the number of legendaries and put them in {{template|BaseStatNoCat}}. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 21:22, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
::Thanks I'll add that when I get time to sometime tommorow. [[User:Shiramu Kuromu|Shiramu Kuromu]] 23:19, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
:::Just posting the averages I got figured out here until I have all of them calculated (Note: Includes Alt Formes and Phione).
:::HP: 92.89

:::Attack: 86.11

:::Defense: 85.28

:::Special Attack: 124.45

:::Special Defense: 90.65

:::Speed: 99.72

:::So far I'm predicting high average Special based stats. Once I get everything else calculated I'll get the averages posted on the article, though while you posted the template for it I have absolutely no clue how to set it up. x-x Edit: Looks like I'm right about the Special part. [[User:Shiramu Kuromu|Shiramu Kuromu]] 19:57, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Nevermind about how to use them, used the Dragon Type page as a reference for these. Is it working correctly? Do I need to round them to whole numbers (The fully evolved averages for types displayed them like this though)?
===Statistical averages{{tt|*|Considering Alternate Formes as seperate Pokémon}}===
{{BaseStatNoCat|
HP=92.89 |
Attack=86.11 |
Defense=85.28 |
SpAtk=124.45 |
SpDef=90.65 |
Speed=99.72 }}
[[User:Shiramu Kuromu|Shiramu Kuromu]] 20:29, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
:Looking good. Feel free to incorporate that into the page when you're ready. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 21:12, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
::Can you get the bars to align to the right so that they are affecting in length by the numbers to the left of them? [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 00:27, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't know how to set it up like that. Though I do have to redo the totals since Phione is know confirmed not to be a legendary, so I'll figure out how to do that when I get he chance. [[User:Shiramu Kuromu|Shiramu Kuromu]] 17:11, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
::::I see, maybe you could move the bars all the way to the right? [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 20:16, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Featured Article ==

The article "Legendary Pokémon" has been a featured article for a while now. Doesn't anyone think it should give another article a chance? [[User:Pokedex493|Pokedex493]] 18:28, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
:I agree, there are plenty other articles out there? [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 19:26, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
::Yeah. Does anybody else agree? [[User:Pokedex493|Pokedex493]] 19:37, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Feel free to [[BP:FAC|nominated one]]. There is no limit to how many featured articles Bulbapedia can have. As long as this one is still high quality, it will stay featured and we will add more to the list. (Which reminds me, I need to close the current nominations.) —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 09:33, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

== Mythical Pokémon ==
With the commercials for Victini airing now, as well as the Celebi Distribution's page on the HeartGold and SoulSilver website, would it be a good guess to assume that TPCi considers Mythical Pokémon to be the translated term of "Illusory Pokémon"?--[[User:Purimpopoie|Purimpopoie]] 00:34, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
:Apparently, Mythical Pokémon is now used to refer to any legendary. [http://pokebeach.com/#legendary-pokemon-renamed-to-mythical-pokemon See here. I think a page moving might be in order.] - ''unsigned comment from [[User:Missingno. Master|Missingno. Master]] ([[User talk:Missingno. Master|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Missingno._Master|contribs]])'' 21:27, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
::Makes sense since in the anime Dratini was specifically stated to be legendary so they gotta rename legendaries... xD [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 22:04, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
:::Remember the Japanese games do actually use several different terms for 'legendary Pokémon'. It looks like the English translations are finally going to recognise that and do the same. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] [[User talk:Werdnae|(talk)]] 22:10, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
::::I agree on the move. If this is going to be standard, then we should change to reflect this. --[[User:Jonouchi|Jonouchi]] 23:14, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
:::::At most I think there should be a redirect that leads here... >.> [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 23:32, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
::Should be split. Reshizek are still legendary. The legendary Pokémon template should be divided, so it's one template, but maybe it should look like this:
|Legendary: Reshiram - Zekrom
Unova|
|Mythical: Victini - Other Stuff

[[User:TorchicBlaziken|TorchicBlaziken]] ([[User_talk:TorchicBlaziken|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/TorchicBlaziken|edits]]) 00:46, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
::::I... guess? Just as long as Victini and the others are not even ''once'' called legendary officially... [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 03:22, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
:I believe Mythical Pokémon is now the official translation for '''幻のポケモン''', as Celebi, Victini, Arceus and many others are all official called 幻のポケモン by the official Japanese website, and Reshiram and Zekrom and many others are called 伝説のポケモン. Now Mythical Pokémon and Legendary Pokémon is different.--[[User:Swampert|Swampert]] 13:46, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
::Well... seeing as how Bulbapedia ''is'' '''for''' fluff and unconfirmed info, I guess we might as well do this? By for I mean when told that something is fluff and unconfirmed people get called an idiot for not believing it to be true regardless of there being no proof of it whatsoever. [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 22:54, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Victini was called a ''Mythical Pokémon'', while Raikou, Entei, Suicune, Reshiram and Zekrom are still being called ''Legendary Pokémon''. Probably, they finally split the classification, like in Japanese: '''Legendary Pokémon''' (伝説のポケモン ''densetsu no Pokémon'') and '''Mythical Pokémon''' (幻のポケモン ''maboroshi no Pokémon''). - [[User:Taylor|Taylor]] 23:38, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
::I feel at this point in time it is time to restate what Dratini was called, 伝説のポケモン, Legendary Pokémon. [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 23:42, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

I for one vote that event Pokémon should be moved to Mythical Pokémon due to TCPi using a new term for the Pokémon that is given out by event.Anyone agree on this ? [[User Talk:LucarioWolf|'''Lucario''']][[User:LucarioWolf|'''Wolf''']] 23:50, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

It seems that's it. Event Legendaries were called ''maboroshi'' in Japanese and now they got their own classification in English... because Celebi and Arceus are being called ''Mythical'', too. - [[User:Taylor|Taylor]] 23:52, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
:Ah so then are we moving Dratini to Legendary Pokemon status? Since that is what it is called? [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 00:01, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
::Once, in the anime, ages ago. I'm talking about the recent, official use. - [[User:Taylor|Taylor]] 00:56, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
:::More like twice if you count Dragonite, but when it was called that does not change the fact it was called that. Also, how is the anime unofficial? [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 01:33, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
::::Was the Dratini line ever actually called "legendary" or such using the Japanese terms? [[User:Frugali|Frugali]] 01:37, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
:::::Well... not Dragonair specifically... [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 01:50, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
Okay this is driving me crazy, do we have any real confirmation that the new term is Mythical Pokemon or that the two will be used seperately? Why can't we wait 'till the games come out and if all of the 'legendaries' are called Mythical Pokémon, then <s>I'm going to have to kill someone</s> we can move it. If only some of them are called Mythical and some of them are Legendary, then we will have to rethink our classification of Legendary and Mythical Pokémon (what makes one legendary and the other mythical. Hopefully, they'll all stay as legendaries and we can move on with our lives. :P --[[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']]''' 02:09, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
:Considering the current events... Raikou, Entei, Suicune, Reshiram and Zekrom '''were deemed Legendary'''; Victini, Celebi and Arceus '''were deemed Mythical'''. Pretty simple to me: normal gameplay ones are Legendaries, event-exclusive ones are Mythical. Just like Japanese ''densetsu'' and ''maboroshi''. - [[User:Taylor|Taylor]] 02:32, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
::''By that logic'', Dratini and Dragonite '''were deemed Legendary''', just saying. [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 10:38, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
:::Okay, like it or not Dratini and Dragonite are not legendary. Dragonite is [[Pseudo-legendary]] but that's as close as they get. On the other note, I'd say wait 'till the games come out in a week or two before making any bold descisions. --[[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']]''' 01:22, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
::::Oh hey I agree, thank you for understanding my point, Dratini and Dragonite are not legendary just because they were called that, exactly why just because someone calls a couple pokemon mythical instead of legendary does not automatically make them not legendary but a new subtype of legendary called mythical. [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 02:51, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

=== Victini, Celebi, and Arceus ===
*I've been to the mall tour and in the "Introduction to Unova" that they show before entering the "Video Game Experience" area, the Narrator says, "Wow! It's ''the Mythical Pokémon Victini''! They say it has the power to bring victory." as Victini appears on the screen. And on the 13th page of the Tour Book given out during the mall tour about the distribution of the [[Liberty Pass]], it identifies Victini as ''the Mythical Pokémon Victini'' twice.

*Celebi is referred to as ''the Mythical Pokémon Celebi'' on [http://www.pokemon.com/us/ Pokémon.com], linking to a [http://www.pokemongoldsilver.com/us/#/news/celebi/ page] about Celebi's distribution at the mall tours and at Game Stop. On that page it refers to Celebi as ''the Mythical Celebi''. At the bottom of the same page, upon click the '6', it refers to the Celebi that the player receives from the deliveryman after it is distributed, as ''the Mythical Pokémon'', rather than just 'Celebi'.

*In an [http://www.pokemon.com/us/news/anim_movie12_dvd-2011-02-04/ announcement] about [[M12|Arceus and the Jewel of Life]] going on DVD, it refers to Arceus as ''the Mythical Pokémon Arceus''.

Mythical Pokémon are most likely Pokémon that can only legitimately be obtained through distributions since this is true for Victini, Celebi, and Arceus, alike.

If my assumption turns out to be correct, all of the following Pokémon are those who I believe will likely be considered Mythical Pokémon:

*{{p|Mew}}
*{{p|Celebi}}
*{{p|Jirachi}}
*{{p|Deoxys}}
*{{p|Phione}} -- The fact that it can only be legitimately obtained by breeding a Ditto and a Manaphy, which the latter of can only legitimately be obtained through distributions, is enough for me to believe that Phione would be a Mythical Pokémon, in this case.
*{{p|Manaphy}}
*{{p|Darkrai}}
*{{p|Shaymin}}
*{{p|Arceus}}
*{{p|Victini}}
*{{p|Zorua}} -- Requires a fateful encounter Pokémon. Seems like good enough a reason to me.
*{{p|Zoroark}} -- Evolved form of an assumed-to-be Mythical Pokémon and requires fateful encounter Pokémon. Again, seems like good enough a reason.
*{{p|Keldeo}} -- Assumed to be available in the future via a distribution. Similar to Shaymin, Darkrai, and Arceus being kept secret at first.
*{{p|Meloetta}} -- Assumed to be available in the future via a distribution. Similar to Shaymin, Darkrai, and Arceus being kept secret at first.
*{{p|Genesect}} -- Assumed to be available in the future via a distribution. Similar to Shaymin, Darkrai, and Arceus being kept secret at first.

-- [[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']]''' 01:12, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
:I would like to disagree in a single point: I think Mythical Pokémon are ''Legendary'' Pokémon that can't be legitimately obtained in normal gameplay. So I disagree on Phione, Zorua and Zoroark, but definitely agree on the rest. - [[User:Taylor|Taylor]] 01:33, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
::What about Victini? has Victini ever been officially called Legendary anywhere? --[[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']]''' 02:02, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
I would like to chime in here, and state that {{p|Dratini}}'s Red, Blue, Yellow, and LeafGreen Pokedex entries state that it is considered a "mythical Pokémon". '''[[User:Blake|Blake]]''' [[User talk:Blake#top|Talk]]·[[Special:Contributions/Blake|Edits]] 21:23, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
:Um, the whole Dratini ordeal was a joke. It's by no means Legendary. It hasn't had a movie. (Yes I know this is an arguable point) It's part of an evolutionary stage. There's way more than just one of them. It probably won't be considered Mythical since it is not Legendary, and it isn't event-exclusive. --[[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']]''' 21:34, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
::So, now that the block is over. What are we gonna do with the whole mythical Pokémon thing? --[[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']]''' 21:47, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

== "Unique" Legendaries in the Anime. ==

All right, I tolerated it when it was present, but after the addition of creatures that obviously weren't considered unique in the Anime (e.g., the Beast Trio from Johto), I think there needs to be a purging in regards to what's counted as unique and what's not.

First off, in regards to uniques, the only one explicitly confirmed to be Unique is Mewtwo. Most of the others are either unconfirmed or explicitly shown to be non-unique and thus should not be listed as such. Also, don't claim that they had some sort of important role in creating something (like creation of the Universe, for example) as a reason to state that they should be unique, because I will remind everyone that the Anime doesn't even care whether the creatures had an important role in creation. For example, Kyogre and Rayquaza was the one who created the Seas as well as the ruler of the skies/mitigator between Groudon and Kyogre's fight, respectively. However, that never stopped them from gaining multiple species, as evidenced with Kyogre reappearing in Movie 9 even though by the time of the movie, the Kyogre they encountered had already went back into slumber at the bottom of the basin, and if Kyogre has multiples, there's a fine bet that Groudon would have multiples as well. Rayquaza has also been shown to reappear three times, with one actually being captured by Team Rocket. Even if all three were the same entity, the mere fact that Kyogre and Groudon (explicitly shown and by proxy, respectively) had multiples meant that Rayquaza would have multiples as well. I mean, no sense in having one have multiples while others in the same trio not have the same multiples, either. Because of this, we can't use the whole "but they helped create Isshu/the Universe" belief as the reason why they are unique. Unless they have explicitly shown that they are unique, they can not be labelled as such, especially not under assumptions. If you have any evidence that suggests that the Legendaries encountered in the Anime are the same (e.g., the legendary in question actually recognizing Ash and co. from a previous encounter), then please add it in with the proper citation. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 20:27, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

== Zekrom and Reshiram ==

Their paragraph states that the two are in constant conflict with one another. This is not true--not only are they sealed away in Stones for many years prior to Black and White, but in Opelucid City, Iris also states that the two "get along so well." [[User:Grei|Grei]] 06:27, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

== Zekrom and Reshiram ==

Their paragraph states that the two are in constant conflict with one another. This is not true--not only are they sealed away in Stones for many years prior to Black and White, but in Opelucid City, Iris also states that the two "get along so well." [[User:Grei|Grei]] 06:27, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Talk:Legendary Pokémon/Archive2

2011-06-04T06:27:30Z

Grei: /* Zekrom and Reshiram */ new section

[[Talk:Legendary Pokémon/Archive1|Archive #1]]

== WTF? ==

Giratina controls dimensions? That's stupid... can somebody remove that? Time and Space (depth, lengh and width) are the freaking dimensions everyone! So Giratina has more power than both Dialga and Palkia? I think not. Remember that Giratina lives in the Distortion World... a place that disobeys the laws of Time and Space. '''[[User:Hfc2x|hfc]][[User talk:Hfc2x|2X]]''' 22:26, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

There are 2 types of dimensions, matematical, which you were talking about, and spacial, which would be under Giratina's control. If you don't belive me, look up "Plane (metaphysics)" on Wikipedia. The dimensions that Giratina controls are '''alternate planes of exictence''', also called '''dimensions'''!- ''unsigned comment from {{u|GuyNamedSean}} ([[User talk:GuyNamedSean|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/GuyNamedSean|contribs]]){{ #if: | {{{2}}} |}}''
:It seems that Giratina can control gravity, or atleast that is how I enterpreted the explanation of its form shift. It also makes some sense because gravity could be considered a third factor in time-space [[User:Enigmaberry|Enigmaberry]] 02:29, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

:I agree with hfc2X, this needs to be changed. It was never officially stated anywhere that Giratina controls dimensions or anything at all, really. If you guys are going to write up fan speculation, you can at least, you know, actually make a note of that. [[User:Marlowe|Marlowe]] 02:17, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

:An additional note, after editing the page a few times I noticed that only established users are allowed to make changes, my mistake there. Still, this needs to be changed for accuracy. [[User:Marlowe|Marlowe]] 02:30, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
::You do realize that this talk section is from BEFORE Platinum was released in English, right? '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 02:34, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
::What does that have to do with anything? Whether it's from one day or even five years ago, it doesn't change the fact that a change still needs to be made. As an encyclopedia, this doesn't need fanon crap. [[User:Marlowe|Marlowe]] 02:36, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
:::Because Platinum confirmed it. Duh. '''~ platinum[[User:Sol|s]][[User talk:Sol|o]][[Special:Contributions/Sol|l]]''' 02:37, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
::::Prove it, then. [[User:Marlowe|Marlowe]] 02:38, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
:::::Disprove it, then. '''~ platinum[[User:Sol|s]][[User talk:Sol|o]][[Special:Contributions/Sol|l]]''' 02:39, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
::::::It is also said in the Distortion World by Cyrus about Giratina's control over dimensions...I'm way, way ahead of that, otherwise I'd give you the exact quote.--[[User:PsychicRider|'''Psychic''']][[User talk:PsychicRider|'''Rider''']]''''[[Special:Contributions/PsychicRider|'''☮''']]'' 02:39, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
:::::My bad. I forgot. Giratina can't go between dimensions, or drag people into the Distorted World, or anything like that. Sorry. I guess it has no real power. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 02:40, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
:::::::Spare me the reverse psychology, Sol, you said that Platinum confirmed it and I'm telling you to point to me where that was specifically confirmed. You're the one making false claims, not me. It was never stated that Giratina controls dimensions, this is FAN SPECULATION which is something that Bulbapedia frowns on if I'm not mistaken. At least it's something they should be frowning upon. [[User:Marlowe|Marlowe]] 02:45, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
::::::::If you can't prove that it hasn't been proved, then it's useless to try and say that it's fan speculation. PsychicRider has confirmed it, so no, it's not fan speculation. '''~ platinum[[User:Sol|s]][[User talk:Sol|o]][[Special:Contributions/Sol|l]]''' 02:46, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
:::::::::Quit acting like a politician and disprove it. You're avoiding what somebody tells you that goes against what you're trying to say. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 02:49, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
:Sol, you're the one who's in a position to prove something, not me. I basically asked "Where was that confirmed?" and you've yet to answer that question. I would like the specific quote of Cyrus stating this, though, as I don't recall it. [[User:Marlowe|Marlowe]] 02:53, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
::I'm way past that, as in Battle Frontier past, but I do remember that it is confirmed from Cyrus's dialogue. --[[User:PsychicRider|'''Psychic''']][[User talk:PsychicRider|'''Rider''']]''''[[Special:Contributions/PsychicRider|'''☮''']]'' 02:59, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
:::So I'm apparently supposed to conveniently be at the point in time where Cyrus says that specific quote. '''~ platinum[[User:Sol|s]][[User talk:Sol|o]][[Special:Contributions/Sol|l]]''' 03:02, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
::::No, this isn't a perfect quote, but: "Hmm... so Giratina disappeared into the real world... it doesn't matter. I'll capture it, and then I'll use the dimensional powers of Giratina to form a new world here and destroy the real one." '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 03:06, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
:::::I believe that's the quote I was looking for...boys, we have our proof. :D. --[[User:PsychicRider|'''Psychic''']][[User talk:PsychicRider|'''Rider''']]''''[[Special:Contributions/PsychicRider|'''☮''']]'' 03:08, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

:::::In that case (if that was explicitly stated), I stand corrected. Thanks. [[User:Marlowe|Marlowe]] 03:10, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
::::::Don't mention it. It only took me 30 minutes to think of. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 03:13, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

:Not to sound like a broken record here, but I've just gotten through the Distortion World on my second run-through and Cyrus doesn't make that statement anywhere. I even saved right before the battle with Giratina to see what Cyrus would say in both scenarios (catching Giratina or defeating it), but the dialogue only changes slightly and there's still no explicit mention of it having control over dimensions. Besides, aren't space and time dimensions as well? Judging from some of the official interviews on Giratina I've just read, I'm more inclined to say that Giratina simply controls antimatter. If I'm not mistaken, antimatter IS considered to be the third factor out of time and space, after all. I propose that we take "dimensions" out of the sentence. [[User:Marlowe|Marlowe]] 08:22, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
::I watched a Youtube video and saw the same thing. But no. Dimensions isn't coming out. The descriptions aren't just for the games, but also the anime/movies you have to remember. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 12:30, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

== Bubbly Mew ==

Wherever I go, whatever I read that's about Mew or the first movie, it says something like "The Bubbly Mew appeared in the first move", or something like that. Now, why is it called "Bubbly Mew" and why is it just the Mew in the first movie? And where did that term of Bubbly Mew ever come from?--[[User:Dragonbeastx|DRAGON]][[User talk:Dragonbeastx|BEAST]][[User:Dragonbeastx/The Aura Spot|X]] 22:25, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
:Maybe it's that the Mew in the first movie enjoyed making bubbles. [[user:Simpsonsdude13| SD13 Simpsondude13>''']][[user talk:Simpsonsdude13|SD13 Talk]] 20:44, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
==Phione?==
Does Phione really count? And why not Unown? I always thought of the symbols as legends. Me and my fellow torchics agree on this - Sk8torchic
:Phione counts because to get one you have to breed a legendary. Unown doesn't because it's extremely distant from any other legendary. Note the beasts and the birds. Sure they're separated by the powerhouses and events by Dratini and Larvitar's families, but they're next to each other and divided from the others by no more than three Pokémon. Unown has 50 down and 42 up. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 23:41, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
::So all legends have to be near each other in the pokedex? Since when? Me and my fellow torchics agree on this - Sk8torchic 16:07, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

:::Besides, nobody would buy Unown being legendary, what with how they're found all over the place in the [[Ruins of Alph]], [[Tanoby Chambers]], and [[Solaceon Ruins]]. Trust me, in the time it takes to breed for one Phione, odds are one could catch 2 PC boxes entirely full of Unown (although there's no guarantee that all 28 forms would be included)...--[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 16:54, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

== Can we really stop saying that Rayquaza is based on a Ziz ==

It really isn't. The closest thing we have to a bird whose wingspan is large enough to block out the sun is Lugia, atleast according to the accounts of an elderly NPC in Ecruteak city.--[[User:Outrage DD|Outrage DD]] 22:05, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
:Well, Groudon isn't a giant hippo...elephant...rhino...''thing''...—[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 23:56, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
::They are both based on the concept of these legendary creatures. Masters of the sky and land respectivly.--[[User:MisterE13|Mister]][[User talk:MisterE13|'''E''']][[Special:Contributions/MisterE13|13]] 00:43, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

== Info ==
Why is {{P|Rotom}} not a legendary?, I'm not complaining, I just want to know why.[[User:Pokemonguy1|Pokemonguy1]] 18:28, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
: *[[Talk:Rotom_(Pok%C3%A9mon)/Archive_1|slaps with a wet Magikarp]]* Archives are your friends. — [[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|THE TROM]] — 01:46, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

because it doesn't have monster stats--[[User:Pokemongirl1|PG1 FTW!]] 15:25, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

:Neither does {{p|Phione}}, and yet it's still a Legendary. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 19:17, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

::That's because {{p|Manaphy|a legendary is needed to obtain it}}. --'''[[User:Theryguy512|Theryguy]][[User Talk:Theryguy512|512]]''' 19:40, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
:::Just a reminder that this is a forums topic.... o_0 Go there, peeps. — [[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|THE TROM]] — 09:38, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

All you need to do to catch it is to press a on a tv during night time. to get a phione, like it was said before, you need to have manaphy and breed it. --[[User:Usyflad10|Usyflad10]] ([[User talk:Usyflad10|talk]]) 23:35, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Rotom can breed; legendary Pokemon cannot. Manaphy being the exception but it's more of a 'novelty' that it produces Phione when it lays an egg. [[User:Bttsstewart|Bttsstewart]] 03:02, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

== Legendary Pokémon group picture ==

I made this: [http://student-kmt.hku.nl/~abel1/PF2pictures/Legendary%20Pok%e9mon.jpg]

I think it'll be nice if it was placed in this article, next to (or instead of) that Entei pic.

Greetz,
Abel
:It's nice really but the thing is that the Johto legends will be getting new artworks soon and, maybe, the admins might not like the signature on the upper right. Also, Deoxys is actually shorter than Mewtwo. [[User:Tc26/Anime Predictions|tc]][[User:Tc26|²₆]][[User talk:Tc26|tc]][[User:Tc26/Sandbox|26]] 12:33, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
::Just a reminder that fan art, I think, is generally frowned on. While that is very impressive, we can't use it here. — [[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|THE TROM]] — 21:06, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

== Latios and Latias ==

So I know that the current pic is better than the last, but I'm pretty sure it's {{tt|fan made.|Copyright info doesn't make it official... it only makes the claim that somebody owns the rights to characters...}} And we aren't supposed to have fan pics on pages. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 21:06, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
:Are you sure about that? That's the same font the Pokémon Company uses, it's in Sugimori's style, ''and'' it has his {{wp|Seal (East Asia)|hanko}} on it...—[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 22:31, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

::{{tt|Who's the girl though?|forgot about this since the database was locked at the time...}} '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 21:09, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
:::Beats me. But that's definitely official. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 21:21, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Latios and Latias should be jhoto legendaries because the movie takes place in jhoto.
[[User:JetanHertz13|JetanHertz13]] 00:18, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
::That's... nice? If you join in a conversation that's like... 5 months old, at least add something important. [[User:The Dark Fiddler|The Dark Fiddler]] - [[User talk:The Dark Fiddler|You enter a poorly lit room...]] 00:54, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
:::Latios and Latias appear in a Johto-era movie because they needed to hype up Hoenn. Der. The Eon duo don't even appear in Johto in HGSS, they're roaming Kanto! And it's '''''JOHTO''''', not Jhoto. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 00:27, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Since Heatran being the first with a variable gender is mentioned, shouldn't it be mentioned that they were the first legendaries to have genders? [[User:Goldenpelt|Goldenpelt]] 08:09, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

== Protection Error? ==

Isn't this page protected? I had no problem editing it, and I'm no admin. --[[User:CuboneKing|CUBONE PWNS]] ([[User talk:CuboneKing|Planet Cubone]] • [[Special:Contributions/CuboneKing|Bone Club]]) [[Cubone (Pokémon)|THE VERY BEST PAGE!]] 20:28, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
:New users are blocked from editing (which, at the current state of the wiki does nothing). Only admins may move the page, though. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 20:31, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
::Ohhhhhhhhh... NOW I get it... --[[User:CuboneKing|CUBONE PWNS]] ([[User talk:CuboneKing|Planet Cubone]] • [[Special:Contributions/CuboneKing|Bone Club]]) [[Cubone (Pokémon)|THE VERY BEST PAGE!]] 20:35, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

== Trivia: Legendary Pokémon Themes ==

It should be noted that in the upcoming games, HeartGold and SoulSilver, that Lugia and Ho-Oh now both have their own, distinct themes in the upcoming games. It was confirmed on the "never before seen footage" on Pokémon Sunday where they revealed meeting Lugia and Ho-Oh in the games. :) From the small clips you can hear, Ho-Oh's theme seems to be very Japanese-percussion based (taiko drums) and Lugia's is very orchestral-dramatics based. {{unsigned|Gimmetokyo}}

I wonder if it's also pertinent to mention that the legendary beasts in HG/SS technically have their own unique themes, as well - or perhaps it would be more accurate to say that they have their own unique remixes of a theme. Either way, their battle music in HG/SS is not shared (identically, at any rate) with any other Pokemon. --[[User:Xatni|Xatni]] 01:07, 2 June 2010 (UTC)Xatni

== New article ==
Since the Legendary Trios and Duos have articles, should the Legendarys without a group (Trio Master's not included) get there own article too? {{unsigned|Blackstone Dresden}}

:If you mean Legendaries like {{p|Mew}}, {{p|Celebi}}, and {{p|Manaphy}}, then no. What would we write that isn't already on their own pages? '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 04:16, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

== Arceus HGSS pic ==

[[Image:Arceus - HGSS Event Artwork.jpg|thumb|left|150px]]
 How about adding it? -- [[User:RikkiKitsune|R<s>ikki</s>]][[User talk:RikkiKitsune|Kitsune]] 21:26, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

If I could, I would!--[[User:The Bulb's Master|The Bulb's Master]] 12:45, 13 August 2009 (UTC) Master of Bulbasaur and Turtwig♀

:I didn't place that one since one for the Azure Flute event would be better. It would be similar to Darkrai and Shaymin. [[User:Tc26/Anime Predictions|tc]][[User:Tc26|²₆]][[User talk:Tc26|tc]][[User:Tc26/Sandbox|26]] 12:49, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

::I'll put it in for now. We can always change it when the Flute event gets its own artwork. We're using the HGSS Beasts artwork aren't we? '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 16:25, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

== Edit! ==
I can't edit, but one of you should include that they can be found in Sinnoh.--[[User:The Bulb's Master|The Bulb's Master]] 12:44, 13 August 2009 (UTC) Master of Bulbasaur and Turtwig♀

== "Legendary" ==
Is the term "legendary" an official descriptor or one applied by the fandom? [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 23:55, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
:Its official. It appears in the games, anime, and all sorts of sources. It even appears in some Pokédex entries. '''[[User:Blake|Blake]]''' [[User talk:Blake#top|Talk]]·[[Special:Contributions/Blake|Edits]] 01:38, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
::Yeah, I've been playing Blue and the first instance of the term "legendary Pokemon" is on Route 14 by a Bird Keeper, for future reference. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 03:45, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

==[[Arcanine]]==
"If you were looking for the "Legendary Pokémon" species, see Arcanine (Pokémon). "
Why does it say that? What does it have to do with anything [[User:Qim1|Qim1]] 00:05, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
:Arcanine's [[species]] name is "Legendary Pokémon". In comparison, Bulbasaur's is "Seed Pokémon". Just on the off-chance that someone thinks Arcanine is actually a Legendary Pokémon, in the sense meant on this page. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 01:28, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
::Arcanine is considered as legendary in Chinese... since many [[Pokédex]] entries says Arcanine is from China.[[User:Palkia38|Palkia38]] 07:09, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

==Pokemon of Legend, Illusion, and Myth==
Is there any source for these categories of legendaries? The main paragraph suggests the Japanese versions identify legendaries differently that was narrowed for translation... What Pokemon are in these various categories, and why? What exactly do the Japanese versions say? [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 03:48, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

==Slowpoke/king==
This may meet with some dissent, but would Slowpoke or Slowking qualify under "Other Pokemon of myth"? Slowpoke is pretty dominantly featured in GSC and HG/SS, as well as the corresponding anime episode, as the savior of Azalea in time of need. He's practically worshiped there. I don't believe this story was ever explicitly stated as fact, but rather as a cultural legend of sorts. That means Slowpoke is featured in a legend, and so possibly counts as a low-tier legendary like Arcanine of Togepi.

Slowking may same to fit the position more, but the extent of its qualification are the second movie. I don't know if human speech, a knowledge of ancient prophecies, and a role in that prophecy coming true/being resolved counts as a legendary, but should also be considered.

So, what are the opinions on counting on or both as minor legendaries? I'll agree to any consensus, but just thought it would be worth bringing up since Slowpoke does garner some "It's a legendary" statements from time to time. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 00:48, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
:Pastoria worships Croagunk. Does that mean it's a minor legendary too? Slowpoke, as far as I know, only gets mentioned as legendary [[User:TTEchidna/Slopoke (that i ran into the other day)|when people are being sarcastic]].--'''[[Water (type)|Liquid]]''' [[Mask of Ice|'''ICE''']] (User:Cold)([[user:Cold|page]], [[User talk:Cold|talk]]) 00:55, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
::I was unaware of Croagunk's position in that area, though that does get me thinking... Slowpoke, Croagunk, and possibly some of the "Other Pokemon of myth" featured here might do well on a "Pokemon of cultural significance" kind of article. I expect gen 5 will introduce at least one new Pokemon that is treated similarly to these two, so at that time it might be feasible to make such an article. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 00:58, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
:::We need more than two Pokémon of culutral significance to make it an article. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 01:02, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
::::Which is why I suggested waiting until gen 5 when another Pokemon may be featured. But, as it stands now, Arcanine, Ninetails, and the Togepi line are strong candidates for such an article. Note that "legendary" is as much a fan-term as a canon one, so creating a corollary term for culturally-significant Pokemon would be ideal as well as alleviate the constant arguing about who is and isn't a legendary, when frankly many of the supposed legendaries ''would'' make more sense in a culture article. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 01:07, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

== Unique Pokemon ==

: So which Pokemon exactly are "unique" besides Mewtwo? I'm just curious. Also, has it ever been '''confirmed''' that Mewtwo is unique? [[User:LugiaRocks|'''LugiaRox''']] 02:34, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
::Well he is the first cloned legendary, first created legendary. But that's probably speculation.--'''[[User:Midnight Blue|Midnight]] [[User talk:Midnight Blue|''Blue'']]''' 03:49, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
::: Mewtwo is a special case. He's not even a "legendary" in the in-universe sense (no associated legends), only in the fanon sense. Discussing what other Pokemon are "unique" is beating a dead horse, since it's been done before and there's no way we can no for sure. Looking at it one way, nearly every Pokemon is unique, but in another way there's room for multiplies. Who knows? As for created Pokemon akin to Mewtwo, I'm sure that area will be explored at some point. Come gen 5, all the loose strings will be tired up. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 03:55, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
:::: I believe we could safely say that Arceus is unique. [[User:LugiaRocks|'''LugiaRox''']] 05:07, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
::::: Arceus is the personification of a concept. There could very well be more than one, with each being an avatar of an incomprehensible concept. It's called pantheism. Hindis practice it. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 05:46, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
::::::Hindu's you moron, hindi is the language they speak in india!--[[User:Minimag|Minimag]] 05:14, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
::::::: Does it really matter? And the term "Hindi" also applies to Hindu literature and culture. Religion/mythology is within the scope of culture, so there you go. I know my use of language. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 05:22, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
::::::::I thought it was polytheism. Anyways, in Hinduism concepts, gods are an aspect of Brahmna, the eternal being, which could be what Arceus could be based on, with the three major aspects of Brahma being legendary trios. Though I doubt this because Nintendo is based in Japan and not India. [[User:Turtwig A|Turt]][[wig]] [[Turtwig (Pokémon)|A]] ([[User talk:Turtwig A|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|contribs]]) 00:31, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
(reset indent)

The non-uniques are:
*Mew ([[Mewtwo Strikes Back]] & [[Lucario and the Mystery of Mew]])
*Lugia ([[The Power of One]], [[Silver (Johto)|Silver]], and possibly Movie 13)
*Regirock, Regice, Registeel ([[Brandon's Regis]] & [[Lucario and the Mystery of Mew]])
*Regigigas ([[Giratina and the Sky Warrior]] & [[DP129]])
*Lati@s ([[Pokémon Heroes]])
*Deoxys ([[Destiny Deoxys]])
*Manaphy ([[Pokémon Ranger and the Temple of the Sea]])
*Phione ([[DP113]])
*Darkrai ([[The Rise of Darkrai]] and [[DP104]])
*Shaymin ([[Giratina and the Sky Warrior]])

Uknown, yet debateable:
*Cresselia - If there's more than one Darkrai, why not Cresselia?
*Heatran - Only one has appeared so far, and even then, it was in the distant past.
*Jirachi - It came from space. We don't know if more are out there like Deoxys and Clefairy.
*The legendary birds - Unlike the beasts, we don't know if there were only 3 specifically created, although it is probable that they're unique.
*The legendary beasts- Although we know that Ho-Oh created 3 from the ashes of Pokémon, Suicune has appeared multiple times and sometimes in different regions. It has appeared in 3 episodes of the anime and one movie. The Entei in [[Spell of the Unown]] was only an illusion created by the Unown.

Unique:
*Mewtwo - It isn't actually a legendary in the anime, just a bad clone of one.
*Ho-Oh - Even though its counterpart, Lugia, is known to be able to have offspring, Ho-Oh seems to be a single Pokémon that travels around.
*Celebi - Although many appeared in [[Pokémon 4Ever]], they were the same Celebi, just from different time periods. The past and future came together in the present.
*Kyogre, Groudon, and Rayquaza - Kyogre and Groudon have appeared in the Team Magma and Team Aqua arc, and Kyogre has appeared in a movie or two. Rayquaza could be argued as having more than one in its species, but it is most likely the only one.
*Azelf, Uxie, and Mesprit - They were created by Arceus to keep Dialga and Palkia in balance.
*Dialga and Palkia - They are the keepers of time and space.
*Giratina - It is the guardian of the Reverse World, an distorted mirror of the Pokémon world. Although it could be argued that because mirror dimensions exist, and there would be Reverse Worlds for each of these mirror dimensions, that is extremely technical and most likely won't be mentioned.
*Arceus - Creator of the Pokémon universe. Not much more to say about that.

If that doesn't clear some things up, I don't know what will. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 22:49, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

:Actually, there is no way that Celebi would be the same Celebi from different time periods (as most of those Celebi [those supposedly from the future] would also not exist if that were the case, since it died.). As for Groudon and Kyogre, it was heavily implied in the end of Scuffle of Legends that they went to sleep again for another age-long rest (almost eternal), and it was also implied that the orbs are the only way they can awake, so it's more likely that Kyogre, at least, has multiples (since unless someone had bonded with the Blue Orb, then Kyogre should not awake, and thus not appear in Movie 9 if it's the same one.). Rayquaza was also implied to be captured by Team Rocket, and it won't make any sense that Rayquaza would be around the atmosphere if it can't get out (which the scene of it's capture implies that it can't escape.) Dialga and Palkia, did they even recognize Ash and co. when they appeared in the Team Galactic Two-Parter? If not, they're definitely not one of a kind, and since Giratina is also part of the same trio, that means it has to have multiples as well. For the Three Pixies, if there are more than one Dialga and Palkia, there are definitely going to be more than one Pixie Trio. So far, the only pokemon to be completely confirmed to be one of a kind without a doubt is Mewtwo. If Arceus somehow appears later on and doesn't even recognize Ash and Co, then it's safe to say that Arceus is also not one of a kind. As for Ho-Oh, let's wait until Movie 13 before we can say that it's one of a kind (If it doesn't recognize Ash, then it's safe to say it's not one of a kind.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 02:15, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

::Wow. I wasn't asking for a "Your wrong, stupid." type of response. We're trying to clear things up, not get into a fight. But since you want an argument for my point... For Celebi, the concept of time in the Pokémon universe, both games and movies, isn't immediate. In PMD2, you don't disappear right away. You still have like, a minute before you start to go away after correcting time. In Movie 12, it took forever for Ash and co. to nearly disappear, which they didn't. Celebi would have enough time to come back to heal itself. And who said it died anyways? It would also know when it would need to heal itself since it's a time travellor, and has basically the same powers that Dialga has, except they're not as massively powerful. There also isn't more than one Palkia, Dialga, or Arceus, as they're the only ones that are in existance. Dialga lives in a dimension outside of time, and Palkia controls all dimensions, except for Dialga's and Arceus'. It doesn't really matter if Palkia and Dialga recognize Ash and co. in the anime, because the anime =/= the movies. And from what I can tell, they don't do anything anyways. Cyrus captures them, and then the Lake trio free them and they go away. And there isn't more than one of each of the Lake trio, because there's... wait for it... ''three'' lakes for the ''three'' Lake guardians, and ''three'' {{tt|gifts|emotion, willpower, knowledge}} to humans. And so what if it appears that Team Rocket has Rayquaza? That was only in the intro to Movie 9 to show that there's evil in the Pokémon world. As for Groudon and Kyogre, again, anime =/= movies. Can't stress that enough. Those anime episodes were directly based off of R/S. There isn't any movie that's based specifically off of any part of a game. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 03:08, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

:::If Anime=/=Movies, then you shouldn't have even cited the movies in the first place (In other words, you shouldn't have cited Darkrai's appearances, as well as the other Legendary Pokémons appearances.). As for who said it had died, the mere fact that even the newly purified healing spring wasn't able to heal it implied that it had died. And for the record, I wasn't calling you stupid nor even implying that you were. And another thing, just because there are three lakes in Sinnoh that hold the pixie trio does not mean that there cannot be more than one Pixie trio. It was earlier implied that there was only one Mew left in existance, yet it was later made clear that there were actually two mews. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 03:42, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
::::Isn't there more than one Dialga, Palkia, and Giratina because of every Gen. IV game having them, but in different ways. HeartGold and SoulSilver has Arceus create one on the spot while DPPt has one already there. Doesn't that mean they are debatable? [[User:Turtwig A|Turt]][[wig]] [[Turtwig (Pokémon)|A]] ([[User talk:Turtwig A|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|contribs]]) 02:23, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
:::::I really don't think any of this matters actually. The only part that talks about unique legendaries, other than that one sentence, is the bottom where it lists the different in-battle music. I would say more, except I know Mchairybug will contradict everything I say. That's why I've stopped talking about it. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 05:09, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

===Definitively===
We can only say without a doubt that Mewtwo is unique in the anime. Arceus, the dragon trio, and the lake trio are presumed due to their link to the universe's creation. The rest, we can't say definitively, though we can more or less assume there's been only one Ho-Oh we've ever seen (Ash indicates it), and the weather trio's important roles also seem to point to there being only one of each.

Also, don't, ''don't'' think in the game sense in the anime. Also, the movies are canon, Ash-haters, find another thing he's not worthy of to rip on him for... like Gible or something. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 09:01, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

It's notable though that in "Mewtwo Strikes Back" Mew is refered in the single sense by many trainers(Such as saying "Mewtwo was cloned from Mew" instead of "Mewtwo was cloned from A Mew"). It could be that this Mew is ether the last one of the Mew kind, or just the Mew that's DNA was used to make Mewtwo. It's impossible to say though, since the movie never expands on this fact.--[[User:Dsman195276|Dsman195276]] 04:23, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

== Wobbuffett in the trivia section ==
Wobbuffett is not a legendary, but it along with Garchomp are the only non-legendary pokémon to be considered uber in competitive battling {{unsigned|Rocklee clone}}
:Unofficial tiers of competitive battling is irrelevant to this article. There's no need to mention Wobbuffet here. --[[User:ElectAbuzzzz|'''electAbuzz''']][[User talk:ElectAbuzzzz|'''z''']][[Special:Contributions/ElectAbuzzzz|'''z''']] 21:27, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

== Trivia; Other languages ==

So, I was looking on the French analog site (Poképédia) and noticed that there are only six legendaries that have had their name changed. (As far as I can tell, only a few of the non legendary pokémon retain the same english name.) They are: Zapdos (Électhor), Moltres (Sulfura), and Articuno(Artikodin); and Azelf(Créfadet), Mesprit(Créfollet), and Uxie(Créhelf).
Does this count as trivia?--[[User:Lamb|Lamb]]''([[User talk:Lamb|talk]])'' 00:34, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
:This is already mentioned in the article's trivia section.;)--[[User:Beligaronia|Beligaronia]] ([[User talk:Beligaronia|talk]]) 01:14, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
::Whoops. Didn't see that.--[[User:Lamb|Lamb]]''([[User talk:Lamb|talk]])'' 06:02, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

== In Game Re-battle ==

I know from elsewhere on this site that (in HGSS at least) if the legendary beasts are KO'd in battle, they can be 'revived' and battled again (for example, if you KO suicune, it'll keep reapearing in Burnt Tower until it's caught). I was just wondering which other legendaries can also be rebattled if they're KO'd? --[[User:Oatzy|Oatzy]] 23:56, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
:I believe it is any Pokémon that appears as a one-time capture, and you have to (re)battle the Elite Four in order to reset them. I know it works on Sudowoodo. On a similar note, I would like to know if its nature, IVs, etc. are reset when it reappears, particularly in regard to the roaming Pokémon. Giratina's stats were reset in Platinum. --[[User:JacobCrystal|JacobCrystal]] 19:33, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

== Champion Cynthia's team. ==

Did anyone else notice the groupings in http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Legendary_Pok%C3%A9mon#Other_Pok.C3.A9mon_of_myth ?

Out of the eleven bullet points on that list, Cynthia uses pokemon from five points, exactly one pokemon for each of those five points.
The groupings aren't exactly hewn in stone, though, so it's hardly trivia worthy. --[[User:PLA|PLA]] 09:26, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

== Reshiram and Zekrom ==

{{u|MAGNEDETH}} made the completely understandable decision to lock down this page to curb speculation, but Reshiram and Zekrom are confirmed to be legendaries by the Japanese site: http://www.pokemon-sp.jp/top.html [[User:Drapion|Drapion]] 20:48, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
:I'll be adding them later on. This whole damn page has been in cleanup for a couple months now, but I've been distracted. I'll finish editing it tomorrow and finally add them, under a Generation V header, tomorrow. Er. Today. I guess. It's early. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 10:19, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

== Zoroark? ==

Should Zoroark be in Other Pokémon of myth?? Or do we need to wait till the movie has actually premiered so we know exactly what he/she/it is or done?
:Wait till the movie comes out. We don't know much about Zoroark's role, yet. [[User:Takharii|<sc>Takharii</sc>]] '''~''' [[User talk:Takharii|<sc>Talk!</sc>]] 08:57, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
::Again, likely to be at least mentioned when I finish my cleanup of this damned thing. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 10:22, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
:::Is the fact that both Zorua and Zoroark event-''only'' sufficient to declare them Legendary? I'm not sure, but I believe that all pokémon available ''only'' through events are Legendary. I'm honestly not sure, however, if that is distinction enough for to be considered Legendary. [[User:Lostdrewid|Lostdrewid]] 07:29, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
::::It's a bit too soon to say that it is definitely a legendary. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 09:29, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
:::::I'm not convinced it is, though. Are they not, by definition, 幻のポケモン? They're almost even more illusory than Mew, Celebi and the like - not only are they event-only, but you need to attend said event ''prior to the launch of the games''. I ask this honestly, but... if that isn't the very picture of a Legendary Pokémon, what is? If what they are is not sufficient to be declared Legendary, then perhaps the article will need a tighter definition. Please do not misunderstand me, I'm not simply trying to be a nag [although I apologize, I realize I must sound like I am], I'm asking specifically because it seems to be that the status of these two is sort of at the crux of the definition of what it means to be Legendary and thus relevant, one way or another, to the article.
:::::Let me see if I can word my thoughts better. The article discusses the definition of Legendary at the introduction, before the TOC; the first section mentions common characteristics of being Legendary. What we have for these two matches the definition provided in the introduction; what we ''don't'' have for these two is a match, or lack of a match, with the common characteristics. Regardless of whether we are ultimately "right" about their Legendary status, if we say we don't have enough information to declare them Legendary, then maybe should the common characteristics [or some of them, whichever are truly defining] be considered as a part of the definition and moved to the introduction of the article?
:::::My goal here is ''not'' simply to see that Zorua and Zoroark be placed on the article. My goal is to see the article improve. I know, I know, it's a Featured Article and thus is considered awesome by the community - because, well, it is:) - but that doesn't mean that even an awesome article has no room to grow. In my original comment, I said plainly, I don't know whether being event only is sufficient to be called Legendary... but I ''shouldn't'' not know. Does that make sense?
:::::I'm sorry that I'm not good with words. I fear I'm going to be misunderstood here. Text only shows so little of meaning that misunderstandings are simple. I'm not trying to be critical, I'm not trying to say the article is bad. It not only isn't bad, I'll happily reiterate that it's awesome. But ultimately, if the legendary status of these two Pokémon is still in question, then the article's definition of legendary needs tightening. [[User:Lostdrewid|Lostdrewid]] 16:49, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
::::::TTE, let me also say that in no way are the arguments I've presented mean I am impatient to see the article updated. I completely understand that you're not a machine whose sole job in life is to update this site :) If this page is not updated until long after B&W comes out, I will not be upset. My sole desire is to see the article be as good as it can be. I feel that I do not have the proper words to contribute directly, even if the article was unlocked, so this is the only way that I feel I ''can'' contribute right now. [[User:Lostdrewid|Lostdrewid]] 17:04, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
:::::::I'd like to know where it's been confirmed that Zorua and Zoroark are ''only'' obtainable through the special events in BW? For all we know, Zorua and Zoroark will also be able to obtained in-game by normal means (wild encounter, NPC gift, etc.), it's just that the event ones are special for whatever reason.
:::::::Unless Spiky-eared Pichu is considered legendary now. :P [[User:Umeko|梅子]][[User talk:Umeko|❀]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|✿]] 18:40, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

Can anyone inform me why Zoroark/Zorua isn't counted a legendary? Thanks. [[User:Marlowe|Marlowe]] 18:45, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
:It's not at the end of the dex (Victini does not count) and it evolves from another Pokemon [[User:Ataro|Ataro]] 18:49, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

==plagiarism?==

I fear that content from this page has been copied onto this page. http://pokemonorg.wetpaint.com/page/Groups+of+Legendary+Pokemon
and maybe loads of other original bulbapedia content has been hoarded. can any one look into this?mods?admins? {{unsigned|AGGRON999}}
:Thanks, I'll take a look into it. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 11:12, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
::Even if the articles are original the images are taken directly from Bulbapedia and in fact link here when one clicks on the image.--[[User:Beligaronia|Beligaronia]] ([[User talk:Beligaronia|talk]]) 05:01, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
:::Yeah, the links go here too. I've spoken with the site owner and he's yet to get back to me. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 10:50, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
::::Thanks. :D

== Huh? ==

Um, actually, Heatran is ''not'' the only legendary Pokémon with a variable gender. There's also Spiritomb. --[[User:Jade 2010|Green Jade]] 20:49, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
:Spiritomb isn't legendary.--[[User:MisterE13|Mister]][[User talk:MisterE13|'''E''']][[Special:Contributions/MisterE13|13]] 20:50, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Well then why is Spiritomb so hard to obtain? --[[User:Jade 2010|Green Jade]] 20:58, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
:Feebas isn't a legendary, but it's almost equally hard to obtain as Spiritomb... they just choose to make some Pokemon difficult to obtain, and some easy to obtain. Adds variety, you know? ▫▫'''[[User:Tina|ティナ]]'''[[User talk:Tina|♫]][[Special:Contributions/Tina|★]] 21:02, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Also, Spiritomb are able to breed. Just sayin' [[User:Bttsstewart|Bttsstewart]] 03:09, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

== SIX Legendaries changed names? ==
Uxie's name is the same in Japanese and English; the lack of Y is just localization and doesn't affect pronunciation (it's no more different - in fact, less so - than Lucario being "Rukario" in Japanese). However, the article says ''six'' legendary Pokemon changed names (the other five, of course, being Articuno, Zapdos, Moltres, Mesprit, and Azelf.) --[[User:HeroicJay|HeroicJay]] 09:00, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
:I agree, Uxie shouldn't count.--[[User:Pokelova|''Poké'']][[User talk:Pokelova|lova!]] 09:09, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
::Except Lucario's Japanese name is Lucario, it's just spelled as Rukario in katakana. Yuxie>Uxie isn't any less of a change than Dodorio>Dodrio, Donfan>Donphan, or Chicorita>Chikorita. If anything, Houou>Ho-oh and Crecelia>Cresselia should be counted as well. --[[User:Goldenpelt]] 01:59, 30 July 2010 (UTC)
:::I gotta agree there... '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 04:41, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
:::I agree about the Lucario comparison. Uxie's Katakana name is Yukushii, not Yuxie, so it's not the same thing. But it does seem a bit silly to say that they are different names if they are pronounced the same. When they design the official romanji names they aren't thinking about the English audience, so of course it makes sense to change the spelling if they think it helps people of that audience pronounce it correctly. It's still the same name. --[[User:CrimsonChin|CrimsonChin]] 17:57, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

== Victini ==

Shouldn't this little creature be added? Id add it, but alas, I am not allowed *cries*. Or are we awaiting more information on it? --[[User:S2daam|S2daam]] 11:47, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
:It's been added... I just improved some things. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 20:54, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

== Mewtwo and Mew's "Unique Battle Music" ==

I really don't think this point should be in the trivia section; isn't that same re-mixed Kanto music used for the birds and, in FR/LG, for the beasts as well? The music for the weather trio and the elemental Regis is more unique than that.[[User:Starscream|Starscream]] 16:38, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
:They're different remixes. Mewtwo's remix I ''think'' is used for Ho-Oh and Lugia in FRLG, in that event no one got anywhere. Mew's is a completely different remix. The legendary birds also have a different remix. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 05:31, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

== Uniqueness in the games ==

In the trivia section it says "In the games, there appears to only be one of every legendary Pokémon", however that's not entirely true. There's only one you can catch, but I've seen a Zapdos and a Heatran in the Battle Hall in Platinum. --[[User:CrimsonChin|CrimsonChin]] 17:42, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

== Edit request ==

Add {{template|-}} before every generation header. →'''[[User:Axxonn|ΑΧΧΟΝΝ]][[User talk:Axxonn|fi]][[Special:Contributions/Axxonn|re]]''' 22:26, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
:I'm not having any issues, and I'm using a standard monitor. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 07:38, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

== Capitalization ==

*A [http://www.pokemon.com/us/games/videogame-pokemon-ranger-guardian-signs/ recent page] on Pokémon.com mentions it as "Legendary Pokémon," not "legendary Pokémon" (with a capital L). I haven't looked yet, but do other things (games, manga, cards, sites, etc.) mention the term as such? [[User:Tc26/Anime Predictions|tc]][[User:Tc26|²₆]][[User talk:Tc26|tc]][[User:Tc26/Sandbox|26]] 11:31, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

== Takuto ==
I think it's important to include an exmaple Takuto has two legendary Pokemon under the "anime" section, and no ramifications were apparent as a result of him possessing legendary Pokemon. {{unsigned|Datonyp1}}

== Split? ==
With Gen V being released very soon, don't you think this entry might get a bit too big? Perhaps we should split it by Generation. Although it might be somewhat of a shame though... [[User:PDL|PDL]] 03:02, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

== "Deer" (and where in the world is Victini?) ==

I think "deer" is a poor group name for that trio, seeing as the closest animals they resemble are the gazelle, the wildebeest, and the oryx{{tt|*|Okay, I'm actually guessing on this last one}}, all bovids. "Musketeers", while not as descriptive, is a lot less inaccurate, as it groups them by their running theme, and doesn't alienate Keldeo. 
On a different subject, shouldn't Victini have a paragraph in somewhere? --[[User:Kaoz|Kaoz]] 01:56, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

== "Raijin" Trio ==
"Borutorosu, ''Torunerosu'', and Randorosu are a trio of Pokémon based on Japanese Raijin, gods of thunder and lightning"
Torunerosu is most likely based on Fuujin, god of wind {{unsigned|Vienna Waltz}}
:Instead of Raijin, which only applies to Boltros, why not Djinn Trio? They look the part.--[[User:Kaoz|Kaoz]] 19:00, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
::There's also Cloud Trio, seeing that's what they got for a lower half. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * [[User talk:ArcToraphim|the Arc Toraph]] 19:22, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
:::Trios are more often named after their overall appearance rather than a common feature. Speaking of which, I did some research and the djinns seem to take visual cues from {{wp|oni}} (Japanese ogre-demons), more notably their facial features and horns. So that'd leave us with the Djinn and Oni alternatives.--[[User:Kaoz|Kaoz]] 22:03, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
::::"More often" doesn't mean "we should consider that first." Obviously the weather trio, lunar duo, Lake Guardians, tower duo all take what they're known for and uses those names. If they aren't djinn or demons in general, why refer to them as such (considering they're based on gods and nothing Middle Eastern)? Birds are birds, beasts are beasts, and Musketeers are French (otherwise, they might have been the Righteous Quartet). Call them the Kami trio, and you're way more accurate than Djinn. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * [[User talk:ArcToraphim|the Arc Toraph]] 23:23, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
:::::Sounds fair, but how descriptive is the word Kami? Not saying Oni was a better suggestion, in fact it suffers from the same problem of neither being widespread in use nor part of the game lore. Names like birds and beasts are simple and descriptive at the same time, because everyone knows what a bird is. Even the golem has been integrated into the general culture pool. Terms like Kami and Oni are known among the Otaku subculture, but once you step out of it, few people will look at the name and think of them. I don't know if Djinn has overcome the limits of the gaming subculture, but if that weren't the case, I'd be all for a name that did, such as ogre or genie.--[[User:Kaoz|Kaoz]] 02:57, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
::::::Kami itself is a broad term that encompasses "gods" with religious connotations. It's general enough that it's likely to have extended itself beyond Otakuism, and if not, one punch into Google gives the Wiki article on Kami as the first result. They're not based on genies or demons. They're based on Raijin, Fuujin, and Inari...which are Shinto gods. Kami. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * [[User talk:ArcToraphim|the Arc Toraph]] 13:09, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
:If we were to go for a specific god, wouldn't it make more sense to use Fuujin, as they're all part Flying-type? --[[User:Goldenpelt|Gοlden]][[User talk:Goldenpelt|pelt]] 23:48, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
::It shouldn't be a specific god, only because they aren't all based around that god. The flying-type is because, yeah, they're gods and they fly. It's not specifically relative to Fuujin that they can. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * [[User talk:ArcToraphim|the Arc Toraph]] 13:49, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
So now there's a page entitled [[Raijin trio]]. Is that really what we'll be calling them from now on? I thought the argument for calling them the Kami trio was the most convincing. --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] 18:51, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
:This is why I liked the wiki when it was locked. We could come to a consensus on sensitive stuff like legendary trio names ''before'' someone made the articles, such as the case with the trio of {{p|Reshiram}}, {{p|Zekrom}}, and {{p|Kyurem}}. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 19:11, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
::'''They''', btw, could be the Tao Dragons. Yin, Yang, Wu? That's Taoism. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * [[User talk:ArcToraphim|the Arc Toraph]] 21:54, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
::Toa/Dao Dragons is a good idea. Yeah, I think Kami Trio (Or possibly a Nature Trio) is much better than singling out the first in the Pokedex as the name. [[User:Vik0z0z|vik0z0z]] 18:51, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

== About Energy Dragon Trio ==
I can't edit talk page there so I make here, I found something on the name
ReshiRAM, ZekROM, KyuREM (RAM-ROM-REM)[[User:Arceus Vs Dragon Trio|Arceus Vs Dragon Trio]] 11:45, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

Right...but what does 'RAM-ROM-REM' mean? Or is the "interesting" bit that all their names end it a consonent made of an R and M with a vowel in between> :-/ [[User:Bttsstewart|Bttsstewart]] 03:13, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
:RAM is random-access memory, REM is rapid eye movement and ROM is read-only memory?--[[User:Pokelova|''Poké'']][[User talk:Pokelova|lova!]] 03:35, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
::"REM, a keyword for an inline comment in some computer languages", so yeah [[User:Vienna Waltz|Vienna Waltz]] 12:30, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
:::Yeah, I think he's just pointing out the name similarities. --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] 13:02, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

== Stat Averages ==
Would it be reasonable if someone added statistical averages like how each of the typings have? Just so we can get a good idea on what the average Legendary seems to have for stats? If anybody sees this as a good idea then how do I add it into the article? [[User:Shiramu Kuromu|Shiramu Kuromu]] 21:10, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
:That would be a good idea. Add up each stat, divide by the number of legendaries and put them in {{template|BaseStatNoCat}}. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 21:22, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
::Thanks I'll add that when I get time to sometime tommorow. [[User:Shiramu Kuromu|Shiramu Kuromu]] 23:19, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
:::Just posting the averages I got figured out here until I have all of them calculated (Note: Includes Alt Formes and Phione).
:::HP: 92.89

:::Attack: 86.11

:::Defense: 85.28

:::Special Attack: 124.45

:::Special Defense: 90.65

:::Speed: 99.72

:::So far I'm predicting high average Special based stats. Once I get everything else calculated I'll get the averages posted on the article, though while you posted the template for it I have absolutely no clue how to set it up. x-x Edit: Looks like I'm right about the Special part. [[User:Shiramu Kuromu|Shiramu Kuromu]] 19:57, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Nevermind about how to use them, used the Dragon Type page as a reference for these. Is it working correctly? Do I need to round them to whole numbers (The fully evolved averages for types displayed them like this though)?
===Statistical averages{{tt|*|Considering Alternate Formes as seperate Pokémon}}===
{{BaseStatNoCat|
HP=92.89 |
Attack=86.11 |
Defense=85.28 |
SpAtk=124.45 |
SpDef=90.65 |
Speed=99.72 }}
[[User:Shiramu Kuromu|Shiramu Kuromu]] 20:29, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
:Looking good. Feel free to incorporate that into the page when you're ready. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 21:12, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
::Can you get the bars to align to the right so that they are affecting in length by the numbers to the left of them? [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 00:27, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't know how to set it up like that. Though I do have to redo the totals since Phione is know confirmed not to be a legendary, so I'll figure out how to do that when I get he chance. [[User:Shiramu Kuromu|Shiramu Kuromu]] 17:11, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
::::I see, maybe you could move the bars all the way to the right? [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 20:16, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Featured Article ==

The article "Legendary Pokémon" has been a featured article for a while now. Doesn't anyone think it should give another article a chance? [[User:Pokedex493|Pokedex493]] 18:28, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
:I agree, there are plenty other articles out there? [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 19:26, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
::Yeah. Does anybody else agree? [[User:Pokedex493|Pokedex493]] 19:37, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Feel free to [[BP:FAC|nominated one]]. There is no limit to how many featured articles Bulbapedia can have. As long as this one is still high quality, it will stay featured and we will add more to the list. (Which reminds me, I need to close the current nominations.) —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 09:33, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

== Mythical Pokémon ==
With the commercials for Victini airing now, as well as the Celebi Distribution's page on the HeartGold and SoulSilver website, would it be a good guess to assume that TPCi considers Mythical Pokémon to be the translated term of "Illusory Pokémon"?--[[User:Purimpopoie|Purimpopoie]] 00:34, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
:Apparently, Mythical Pokémon is now used to refer to any legendary. [http://pokebeach.com/#legendary-pokemon-renamed-to-mythical-pokemon See here. I think a page moving might be in order.] - ''unsigned comment from [[User:Missingno. Master|Missingno. Master]] ([[User talk:Missingno. Master|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Missingno._Master|contribs]])'' 21:27, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
::Makes sense since in the anime Dratini was specifically stated to be legendary so they gotta rename legendaries... xD [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 22:04, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
:::Remember the Japanese games do actually use several different terms for 'legendary Pokémon'. It looks like the English translations are finally going to recognise that and do the same. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] [[User talk:Werdnae|(talk)]] 22:10, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
::::I agree on the move. If this is going to be standard, then we should change to reflect this. --[[User:Jonouchi|Jonouchi]] 23:14, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
:::::At most I think there should be a redirect that leads here... >.> [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 23:32, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
::Should be split. Reshizek are still legendary. The legendary Pokémon template should be divided, so it's one template, but maybe it should look like this:
|Legendary: Reshiram - Zekrom
Unova|
|Mythical: Victini - Other Stuff

[[User:TorchicBlaziken|TorchicBlaziken]] ([[User_talk:TorchicBlaziken|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/TorchicBlaziken|edits]]) 00:46, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
::::I... guess? Just as long as Victini and the others are not even ''once'' called legendary officially... [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 03:22, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
:I believe Mythical Pokémon is now the official translation for '''幻のポケモン''', as Celebi, Victini, Arceus and many others are all official called 幻のポケモン by the official Japanese website, and Reshiram and Zekrom and many others are called 伝説のポケモン. Now Mythical Pokémon and Legendary Pokémon is different.--[[User:Swampert|Swampert]] 13:46, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
::Well... seeing as how Bulbapedia ''is'' '''for''' fluff and unconfirmed info, I guess we might as well do this? By for I mean when told that something is fluff and unconfirmed people get called an idiot for not believing it to be true regardless of there being no proof of it whatsoever. [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 22:54, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Victini was called a ''Mythical Pokémon'', while Raikou, Entei, Suicune, Reshiram and Zekrom are still being called ''Legendary Pokémon''. Probably, they finally split the classification, like in Japanese: '''Legendary Pokémon''' (伝説のポケモン ''densetsu no Pokémon'') and '''Mythical Pokémon''' (幻のポケモン ''maboroshi no Pokémon''). - [[User:Taylor|Taylor]] 23:38, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
::I feel at this point in time it is time to restate what Dratini was called, 伝説のポケモン, Legendary Pokémon. [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 23:42, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

I for one vote that event Pokémon should be moved to Mythical Pokémon due to TCPi using a new term for the Pokémon that is given out by event.Anyone agree on this ? [[User Talk:LucarioWolf|'''Lucario''']][[User:LucarioWolf|'''Wolf''']] 23:50, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

It seems that's it. Event Legendaries were called ''maboroshi'' in Japanese and now they got their own classification in English... because Celebi and Arceus are being called ''Mythical'', too. - [[User:Taylor|Taylor]] 23:52, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
:Ah so then are we moving Dratini to Legendary Pokemon status? Since that is what it is called? [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 00:01, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
::Once, in the anime, ages ago. I'm talking about the recent, official use. - [[User:Taylor|Taylor]] 00:56, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
:::More like twice if you count Dragonite, but when it was called that does not change the fact it was called that. Also, how is the anime unofficial? [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 01:33, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
::::Was the Dratini line ever actually called "legendary" or such using the Japanese terms? [[User:Frugali|Frugali]] 01:37, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
:::::Well... not Dragonair specifically... [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 01:50, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
Okay this is driving me crazy, do we have any real confirmation that the new term is Mythical Pokemon or that the two will be used seperately? Why can't we wait 'till the games come out and if all of the 'legendaries' are called Mythical Pokémon, then <s>I'm going to have to kill someone</s> we can move it. If only some of them are called Mythical and some of them are Legendary, then we will have to rethink our classification of Legendary and Mythical Pokémon (what makes one legendary and the other mythical. Hopefully, they'll all stay as legendaries and we can move on with our lives. :P --[[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']]''' 02:09, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
:Considering the current events... Raikou, Entei, Suicune, Reshiram and Zekrom '''were deemed Legendary'''; Victini, Celebi and Arceus '''were deemed Mythical'''. Pretty simple to me: normal gameplay ones are Legendaries, event-exclusive ones are Mythical. Just like Japanese ''densetsu'' and ''maboroshi''. - [[User:Taylor|Taylor]] 02:32, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
::''By that logic'', Dratini and Dragonite '''were deemed Legendary''', just saying. [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 10:38, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
:::Okay, like it or not Dratini and Dragonite are not legendary. Dragonite is [[Pseudo-legendary]] but that's as close as they get. On the other note, I'd say wait 'till the games come out in a week or two before making any bold descisions. --[[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']]''' 01:22, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
::::Oh hey I agree, thank you for understanding my point, Dratini and Dragonite are not legendary just because they were called that, exactly why just because someone calls a couple pokemon mythical instead of legendary does not automatically make them not legendary but a new subtype of legendary called mythical. [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 02:51, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

=== Victini, Celebi, and Arceus ===
*I've been to the mall tour and in the "Introduction to Unova" that they show before entering the "Video Game Experience" area, the Narrator says, "Wow! It's ''the Mythical Pokémon Victini''! They say it has the power to bring victory." as Victini appears on the screen. And on the 13th page of the Tour Book given out during the mall tour about the distribution of the [[Liberty Pass]], it identifies Victini as ''the Mythical Pokémon Victini'' twice.

*Celebi is referred to as ''the Mythical Pokémon Celebi'' on [http://www.pokemon.com/us/ Pokémon.com], linking to a [http://www.pokemongoldsilver.com/us/#/news/celebi/ page] about Celebi's distribution at the mall tours and at Game Stop. On that page it refers to Celebi as ''the Mythical Celebi''. At the bottom of the same page, upon click the '6', it refers to the Celebi that the player receives from the deliveryman after it is distributed, as ''the Mythical Pokémon'', rather than just 'Celebi'.

*In an [http://www.pokemon.com/us/news/anim_movie12_dvd-2011-02-04/ announcement] about [[M12|Arceus and the Jewel of Life]] going on DVD, it refers to Arceus as ''the Mythical Pokémon Arceus''.

Mythical Pokémon are most likely Pokémon that can only legitimately be obtained through distributions since this is true for Victini, Celebi, and Arceus, alike.

If my assumption turns out to be correct, all of the following Pokémon are those who I believe will likely be considered Mythical Pokémon:

*{{p|Mew}}
*{{p|Celebi}}
*{{p|Jirachi}}
*{{p|Deoxys}}
*{{p|Phione}} -- The fact that it can only be legitimately obtained by breeding a Ditto and a Manaphy, which the latter of can only legitimately be obtained through distributions, is enough for me to believe that Phione would be a Mythical Pokémon, in this case.
*{{p|Manaphy}}
*{{p|Darkrai}}
*{{p|Shaymin}}
*{{p|Arceus}}
*{{p|Victini}}
*{{p|Zorua}} -- Requires a fateful encounter Pokémon. Seems like good enough a reason to me.
*{{p|Zoroark}} -- Evolved form of an assumed-to-be Mythical Pokémon and requires fateful encounter Pokémon. Again, seems like good enough a reason.
*{{p|Keldeo}} -- Assumed to be available in the future via a distribution. Similar to Shaymin, Darkrai, and Arceus being kept secret at first.
*{{p|Meloetta}} -- Assumed to be available in the future via a distribution. Similar to Shaymin, Darkrai, and Arceus being kept secret at first.
*{{p|Genesect}} -- Assumed to be available in the future via a distribution. Similar to Shaymin, Darkrai, and Arceus being kept secret at first.

-- [[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']]''' 01:12, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
:I would like to disagree in a single point: I think Mythical Pokémon are ''Legendary'' Pokémon that can't be legitimately obtained in normal gameplay. So I disagree on Phione, Zorua and Zoroark, but definitely agree on the rest. - [[User:Taylor|Taylor]] 01:33, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
::What about Victini? has Victini ever been officially called Legendary anywhere? --[[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']]''' 02:02, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
I would like to chime in here, and state that {{p|Dratini}}'s Red, Blue, Yellow, and LeafGreen Pokedex entries state that it is considered a "mythical Pokémon". '''[[User:Blake|Blake]]''' [[User talk:Blake#top|Talk]]·[[Special:Contributions/Blake|Edits]] 21:23, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
:Um, the whole Dratini ordeal was a joke. It's by no means Legendary. It hasn't had a movie. (Yes I know this is an arguable point) It's part of an evolutionary stage. There's way more than just one of them. It probably won't be considered Mythical since it is not Legendary, and it isn't event-exclusive. --[[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']]''' 21:34, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
::So, now that the block is over. What are we gonna do with the whole mythical Pokémon thing? --[[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']]''' 21:47, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

== "Unique" Legendaries in the Anime. ==

All right, I tolerated it when it was present, but after the addition of creatures that obviously weren't considered unique in the Anime (e.g., the Beast Trio from Johto), I think there needs to be a purging in regards to what's counted as unique and what's not.

First off, in regards to uniques, the only one explicitly confirmed to be Unique is Mewtwo. Most of the others are either unconfirmed or explicitly shown to be non-unique and thus should not be listed as such. Also, don't claim that they had some sort of important role in creating something (like creation of the Universe, for example) as a reason to state that they should be unique, because I will remind everyone that the Anime doesn't even care whether the creatures had an important role in creation. For example, Kyogre and Rayquaza was the one who created the Seas as well as the ruler of the skies/mitigator between Groudon and Kyogre's fight, respectively. However, that never stopped them from gaining multiple species, as evidenced with Kyogre reappearing in Movie 9 even though by the time of the movie, the Kyogre they encountered had already went back into slumber at the bottom of the basin, and if Kyogre has multiples, there's a fine bet that Groudon would have multiples as well. Rayquaza has also been shown to reappear three times, with one actually being captured by Team Rocket. Even if all three were the same entity, the mere fact that Kyogre and Groudon (explicitly shown and by proxy, respectively) had multiples meant that Rayquaza would have multiples as well. I mean, no sense in having one have multiples while others in the same trio not have the same multiples, either. Because of this, we can't use the whole "but they helped create Isshu/the Universe" belief as the reason why they are unique. Unless they have explicitly shown that they are unique, they can not be labelled as such, especially not under assumptions. If you have any evidence that suggests that the Legendaries encountered in the Anime are the same (e.g., the legendary in question actually recognizing Ash and co. from a previous encounter), then please add it in with the proper citation. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 20:27, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

== Zekrom and Reshiram ==

Their paragraph states that the two are in constant conflict with one another. This is not true--not only are they sealed away in Stones for many years prior to Black and White, but in Opelucid City, Iris also states that the two "get along so well." [[User:Grei|Grei]] 06:27, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Talk:Move variations/Archive 1

2010-12-18T18:27:38Z

Grei: /* Order of Oath Moves Doesn't Matter */

== Template? ==

This page was an excellent idea, but I wonder if there's a way to indicate in each move's article when it belongs to one of these "archetypes". --[[User:Johans|Johans Nidorino]] 21:10, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

I suggested it but it was forgotten later on; and unfortunately, I don't know how to make templates. -([[User:Llxwarbirdxll|Llxwarbirdxll]] 02:35, 29 May 2007 (UTC))
:Template namespace. I'll whip one up. --'''[[User:TTEchidna|T]][[User talk:TTEchidna|T]][[wp:Echidna|Echidna]]''' 02:53, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
::Maybe this is not the right place to suggest, but take a look at the template (Flamethrower as an example):
{| align="center" class="toccolours" cellspacing="2" style="border: 3px solid #88a; border-radius:20px; -moz-border-radius:20px;"
|-
! colspan="2" style="background: #ccf; border: border-radius:20px; -moz-border-radius:20px; padding: 2px 15px;" | [[Move variations|Variations]] of the move {{m|Flamethrower}}
|- style="font-size:90%;" align="center"
| {{ic|Special}}
| {{mcolor|Flamethrower|{{fire color}}}} | {{mcolor|Ice Beam|{{ice color dark}}}} | {{mcolor|Slime Wave|{{poison color dark}}}} | {{mcolor|Thunderbolt|{{electric color dark}}}}
|}
<noinclude>[[Category:Move navigation templates]]</noinclude>
::Flamethrower mentioned twice, while there is no actual link to ''Variations of Flamethrower''. I believe it will be better this way:

{| align="center" class="toccolours" cellspacing="2" style="border: 3px solid #88a; border-radius:20px; -moz-border-radius:20px;"
|-
! colspan="2" style="background: #ccf; border: border-radius:20px; -moz-border-radius:20px; padding: 2px 15px;" | [[Move_variations#Variations_of_Flamethrower|Variations of the move Flamethrower]]:
|- style="font-size:90%;" align="center"
| {{ic|Special}}
| {{mcolor|Flamethrower|{{fire color}}}} | {{mcolor|Ice Beam|{{ice color dark}}}} | {{mcolor|Slime Wave|{{poison color dark}}}} | {{mcolor|Thunderbolt|{{electric color dark}}}}
|}
<noinclude>[[Category:Move navigation templates]]</noinclude>
::--[[User:ЫъГЬ|ЫъГЬ]] 11:09, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
:::I agree. It does make more sense that way. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 11:12, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== New Variation ==

There neeeds to be a Move Variation for the Following moves:
* {{m|Psybeam}}
* {{m|Bubblebeam}}
* {{m|Aurora Beam}}
* {{m|Sludge}}
* {{m|Spark}}
I have checked them all out and they each have:
* Power: 65
* Accuracy: 100%
* PP: 20
P.S. I don't know how to do this myself so really I'm asking for somebody to do this for me!
[[User:Tesh|Tesh]] 16:53, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Actually, I'm not sure if this should be counted as they each have a different added effect, either a [[status ailment]] or a [[stat]] change. Somebody gie me their:view...[[User:Tesh|Tesh]] 20:32, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
:Maybe keep the status-changing ones together, and keep the stat-changing ones together, but keep them separate. That means {{m|Psybeam}}, {{m|Sludge}}, and {{m|Spark}} go together, and {{m|BubbleBeam}} and {{m|Aurora Beam}} go together.
:And don't forget to use the {{template|m}} template for moves. '''[[User:TTEchidna|T]][[User talk:TTEchidna|T]][[wp:Echidna|Echidna]]''' 00:22, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
By the way, I think you've got the wrong idea. I'm not sure on how to create the move variation. I only realised they were similar... [[User:Tesh|Tesh]] 15:34, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

== "Or" ==

Is "10 or 15" valid [[Move variations#Variations of Shadow Ball|here]]? I'd say the use of every possible move variation no matter the amount of PPs it has would require a redefinition. BTW, {{m|Ice Beam}} and {{m|Thunder}} don't belong in the tables they've been introduced in if following the original criterion. --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 05:04, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, I put those there. I'll have them removed. [[User:Llxwarbirdxll|Llxwarbirdxll]] 08:20, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

:LOL, now somebody else did the same with variations of Slash, Waterfall, and Shadow Ball :P --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 16:08, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

People are no longer respecting the "PPs" part of the definition. With "Variations of Flamethrower" the article mentions neither 15 nor 10 now. If this is going to continue, maybe Bulbapedia's definition on "move variations" should no longer include PPs, which seems to be the least important of the three columns. --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 18:35, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

== Seismic Toss and Night Shade? ==

Those belong on the list, right?
[[User:Angerman|Angerman]] 20:10, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
:Doesn't {{m|Night Shade}} do somewhere from 1 to 1.5x the level? I know {{m|Seismic Toss}} does the level. '''[[User:TTEchidna|T]][[User talk:TTEchidna|T]][[wp:Echidna|Echidna]]''' 23:07, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
::No, Psywave does from 0.5 to 1.5x the level. But Night Shade always does damage equal to the level. --[[User:Shiny Noctowl|Shiny Noctowl]] 23:11, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
:Still, they don't have the same amout of default total PPs. --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 01:53, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
::They're stretching it nowadays though. Hmm...{{m|Zap Cannon}} and {{m|Dynamicpunch}}... [[User:Ht14|'''''ht''''']][[User talk:Ht14|''14'']] 22:11, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
Well, I'm sure {{m|Stone Edge}} and {{m|Cross Chop}} are variations. [[User:Angerman|Angerman]] 07:00, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
:Definitely ^_^ --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 16:46, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

==Stub?==
Is it Still a stub?--[[User:Torchic-ken|Torchic-ken]] 2:58, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
:Yeah, there's a few missing bits. [[User:Angerman|Angerman]] 00:10, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

== Mean Look/Block/Spider Web? ==

I noticed there isn't a section for these three moves, and while Block and Mean Look fit a "5 PP, Prevents foe from escaping" description, Spider Web only has one thing setting them apart and that's the PP issue. Should I add it anyway? [[User:TinaTheKirlia|TinaTheKirlia]] 01:47, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
:Add only Mean Look and Block. That's what has been done in these cases to agree with the current definition of "move archetypes". --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 08:01, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

== Counter and Mirror Coat? ==

I'm really surprised no one did this - they both have 10PP, varying power, 100% accuracy and they both go last and counter the foe's attack at two times the power. I was trying to find a good way to summarize it though - how's this? "Goes last and counters the move used by the foe at twice the power". [[User:TinaTheKirlia|Tina]][[User talk:TinaTheKirlia|The]][[Kirlia (Pokémon)|Kirlia]] ♥ [[Image:281MS.gif]] 21:23, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
:That works. '''[[User:TTEchidna|TTE]][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 23:41, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

== Softboiled and Milk Drink ==

Even though they're listed under variations of Recover.. they both can do something Recover can not -- heal other Pokémon's HP outside of battle. I think this deserves a mention. :P [[User:Tina|Tina]] [[Special:Contributions/Tina|δ]][[User talk:Tina|♫]] 18:58, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

== Contests? ==

I think it would be incredibly useful to have a version of this page for contests, since many of the moves do the exact same things.
Thoughts...? [[User:Maki|Maki]] 13:47, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
:I agree. However it'd have to be set up differently. It'd be like... effect, cute moves, beauty moves, smart moves, tough moves, cool moves. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]][[Image:Ani155MS.gif|Fire echy]]''' 20:49, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

== Blizzard ==

Are Magma Storm and Focus Blast ''really'' variations of Blizzard? Neither inflict a status ailment and Magma Storm sounds more like a multi-turn move. The only similarities seem to be 120 power

Also, I think Thunder should be added as a variation. It has 10 PP, not 5, but it causes a status ailment, has 120 power and 70 accuracy. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 20:28, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
:Thunder and Blizzard also have their accuracy at 100% when used during a specific weather condition. Magma Storm seems most like Outrage, though that goes 2-3 turns, and Focus Blast is just... its own thing. Not ''every'' move has a counterpart, that's what people need to remember. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]][[Image:Ani155MS.gif|Fire echy]]''' 20:38, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
::That's what I mean, a lot of the moves I mentioned, as well as Hydro Pump, Seed Flare and Fire Blast are all ''similar'', but variations of each other? I'd say they're similar moves, but not direct variations. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 20:40, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
:::Yes. Variations: Do the same thing. Similarity: have the same PP, power, or accuracy but don't do the same thing. Outrage and Thrash are variations, despite Outrage now being 120 power. Focus Blast and Blizzard are not because all they share is accuracy and power. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]][[Image:Ani155MS.gif|Fire echy]]''' 21:21, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
::::So, should we move some of the moves I mentioned around? That's what I've been suggesting. I think Magma Storm should be grouped with Outrage and Thrash, and Blizzard, Thunder and Gunk Shot should be in a group. Maybe Seed Flare and Focus Blast too, their effects are identical except for accuracy. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 00:39, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

==Order==
Why aren't they in alphabetical order? {{u|MathijsP}}
:Beats me. Last time I organized them I put them in order by damage. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 01:59, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

==Dragon Claw, X-Scissor, Seed Bomb==

Aren't these all variations? They all do 80 damage, have 15 PP, and no added effect. Can I add them? --[[User:Dark Sage|Dark Sage]] 18:25, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
:You forget to mention the accuracy, but it happens that it's the same! So yeah, they're move variations. --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 18:20, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
Great. I guess I'll add them now. --[[User:Dark Sage|Dark Sage]] 18:25, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Actually, I don't think I know how to do the template. Can someone else do that? --[[User:Dark Sage|Dark Sage]] 18:27, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Nevermind, I got them. :) --[[User:Dark Sage|Dark Sage]] 21:05, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

==Ice Beam?==

Ice Beam has only 10 PP, yet it's claimed to be a variation of Flamethrower and Thunderbolt, which have 15 PP. Can I remove that? --[[User:Dark Sage|Dark Sage]] 21:08, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
:Ice Beam is the most useful of all three, but is still the same. Same power, accuracy and rate to inflict a status problem. Part of Ice Beam may be the fact frozen Pokémon are helpless. [[User:Gywall|'''Gywall''']]([[User_talk:Gywall|Talk]]) 21:15, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
::Ice Beam is one of the more visible move variations in normal gameplay. --[[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] |[[User talk:Fabu-Vinny|Talk Page]]| 21:21, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Ah. I see. OK. --[[User:Dark Sage|Dark Sage]] 00:46, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

== Air Slash? ==

I wonder if, shouldnt Air Slash be in the "variations of Slash" since it IS a Slash move after all? o: what do you people think? I havn't really looked up the PP, accuracy and power, but its very similar to Night Slash and Slash. :c--[[User:Angela-Samshi|Angela-Samshi]] 17:50, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

:Slash and Night Slash have high critical-hit ratios, Air Slash may cause the opponent to flinch. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 17:54, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Ahh, ok thanks. --[[User:Angela-Samshi|Angela-Samshi]] 18:09, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

== Pound <-> Gust? ==

Gust isn't a variation of Pound, is it? - [[User:FireHazard|Hazardous FIRE!]] 00:08, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
:Yes it is. 35 PP, 40 power, 100% accuracy–yup, variation. --[[user:Baby G|Baby G]] ([[user talk:Baby G|talk to me]]) ([[Special:Contributions/Baby_G|see my edits]]) 23:10, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

== Arm Thrust ==

I read that the accuracy of Arm Thrust was 100 percent, but it was under the variations of Barrage, saying that its accuracy was 85 percent. Is its accuracy 85 or 100, cuz I don't wanna do an edit with wrong info.---[[User:Hitmonchan90|Hitmonchan90]] 23:07, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

==Bulk Up and Calm Mind?==

They both have 20 PP, and raise Attack and Defense/Special Attack and Special Defense one stage, respectively. Variants? All signs point to yes. [[User:Master Lucario|Master Lucario]]
:Yep, variations. Added. --[[user:Baby G|Baby G]] ([[user talk:Baby G|talk to me]]) ([[Special:Contributions/Baby_G|see my edits]]) 21:30, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

== Reorganised ==

Since the moves were looking kinda messy, since the order was somewhat random, I went and moved the sections around to order it A-Z. Exceptions being Elemental X and the OHKO moves as they are listed differently. [[User:Gywall|'''Gywall''']]([[User_talk:Gywall|Talk]]) 17:27, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

I believe the order was by Base Power of the attacks. [[User:The Placebo Effect|The Placebo Effect]] 13:29, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

== Sections for both {{m|Tail Glow}} AND {{m|Agility}}? ==

I've noticed that there are two sections that both share similar attributes, both sections detail moves that have 20 PP but increase a stat two stages, however, One details just Special attack raisers while the other details the other ones.

Should there be two or should they be put together? [[User:PDL|PDL]] 00:22, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
:I was thinking the same thing, but then I found out that all the listed variations of Agility (including Agility itself) have ''30'' PP, and that Tail Glow and {{m|Nasty Plot}} have ''20'' PP. --[[user:chocolate|Cho]][[user talk:chocolate|col]][[special:contributions/chocolate|ate]] 00:23, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
:Agility has 30 PP.Otherwise, I would say yes--[[User:DCM|DCM]][[User talk:DCM|((Talk]][[Special:Contributions/DCM|Contributions))]]

I just noticed that now as well ^^; [[User:PDL|PDL]] 00:35, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

== Crabhammer ==

Both Crabhammer and Blaze Kick ''used'' to be signature moves. Should this be noted? --[[User:Raijinili|Raijinili]] 21:43, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
:I don't think it should. <big>[[user:chocolate|Cho]][[user talk:chocolate|col]][[special:contributions/chocolate|ate]]</big> 21:47, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

== Lock-On/Mind Reader ==

How about them? [[User:Ht14|''ht'']][[User talk:Ht14|''14'']] 23:19, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
:I remember them having the exactly same effect, so if my memory serves me right, they could be added. UltimateSephiroth ([[User:UltimateSephiroth|user]] · [[User talk:UltimateSephiroth|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/UltimateSephiroth|contrib]]) 23:29, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
::How about {{m|Whirlwind}} and {{m|Roar}}? [[User:Ht14|''ht'']][[User talk:Ht14|''14'']] 04:05, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

== {{m|Spikes}} / {{m|Toxic Spikes}} ==

Should these be parterned up?--[[User:RexRacer|'''Rex]][[Quilava (Pokémon)|Racer''']] [[User talk:RexRacer|'''''-talk''''']] 16:26, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
:Don't forget about {{m|Stealth Rock}}, too. [[user:chocolate|Cho]][[user talk:chocolate|col]][[special:contributions/chocolate|ate]] 16:28, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

== This page needs work ==

First of all, should PP be accounted for or not? Right now, some do and some don't. I don't really care which one we go with, so long as it's consistent.

Second, effects are not being grouped together consistently either. Example: Spark has a 30% chance of inducing Paralyze. Psybeam has a 10% chance of inducing Confusion. 30 != 10. Another example: Flamethrower has a 10% chance of inducing Burn. Surf has 0% chance of inducing anything at all, and has a different target range on top of that. Also, the diffence between "Acid Armor variations" and "Amnesia variations"? Ignoring the PP difference (the Acid Armor variations already do this anyway), who really cares if they raise Special stats or not? You could just as easily group them by Defense or Attack stats. On the other hand, I say just go with "raises a stat by two stages" and leave it at that.

Third, I do not think "non-[http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/volatile volatile]" means what you think it means. Why not just put "non-damaging effect" or something else a bit more clear and grammatically correct? [[User:Dragoness|Dragoness]] 04:57, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

:I never thought PP should be accounted for. A lot of the moves might have the same PP but if all the important other stuff is the same, the moves are pretty much variations! [[User:Toastypk|'''''~Toastypk''''']] - [[User_Talk:Toastypk|'''Loom.''']] 05:06, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Thief and Covet will never be counted as variations if taking PP into account. --[[User:Kaoz|Kaoz]] 15:57, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
:And that's the sad thing, they're pretty much the same kind of item-stealing damaging move. PP is a moot point! [[User:Toastypk|'''''~Toastypk''''']] - [[User_Talk:Toastypk|'''Loom.''']] 00:22, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

::If there's only one thing different about a move variation, it can still be considered a variation. For example, {{m|Surf}} is one of the {{m|Flamethrower}} variations, because it has the same power, PP, and accuracy. The only thing different is the effect. [[User:Chocolate|Chocolate]] ([[User talk:Chocolate|Chat with Me]]) 00:44, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
:::Actually, you could argue that Surf is a variation of Earthquake, since they have the same range and the same effect (none). Surf has more PP and less power, but it also has two things different from Flamethrower: range and effect. See? You can't just go "Oh they're close ENOUGH", you have to pick your criteria and stick with it. Either effect counts or it doesn't count. Either range counts or it doesn't count. Either PP counts or it doesn't count. If you start flubbing things, that's only going to make things more complicated down the line. [[User:Dragoness|Dragoness]] 03:23, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

:::Earthquake has the anti-{{m|Dig}} effect. --[[User:Raijinili|Raijinili]] 02:55, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
::::Good point, that's another thing they have in common, since Surf can hit during Dive too. [[User:Dragoness|Dragoness]] 03:15, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
::::I don't think there needs to be a set of rigid rules for move variations. By definition, variation implies differing conditions, character, and degree. That said, I do think that a move variations should have identical or ''very'' similar effects. PP and base power are relatively unimportant to me, when two moves have unique identical effects. Consider Bind, Fire Spin, and Whirlpool: they are all multi-turn attacks that trap their foe. They work exactly the same, and have relatively unique effects (only a handful of moves work like this). However, Bulbapedia currently only considers Fire Spin and Whirlpool as "variations". — [[User:Laoris|Laoris]] ([[User_Talk:Laoris|Blah]]) 03:18, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
:::::I think that trapping should have its own page. It's not as if the creators sat around and thought, "Hey, wouldn't it be cool to have a clone of this move for that element?" I think the process was more like, "Hey, why not have this as a mechanic?" --[[User:Raijinili|Raijinili]] 05:12, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
:::::Minor problem with that though. Ember, Flamethrower and Fire Blast (and probably others but those are the big ones) all have a 10% chance of causing burn. Moreover, they're all Fire attacks. If we go solely by effect, then that makes them variations of each other. So then we have moves that are multiple variations in one. Is that really ok? I mean, I can see it going either way...

:::::One possibility is to split it into two things, where there are moves that are strictly exact copies of each other minus type and specific effect (not % chance of effect though, that has to say the same), and then other moves that just do the same thing but are not exact copies. Like, if I want to look for moves that cause Burn, there could be a category that I could go to and look there, and likewise for moves that cause trapping, or moves that hit everyone on the field. Does that sound reasonable? [[User:Dragoness|Dragoness]] 01:14, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

::::::I'm not talking about secondary effects like 10% of burn or confusion. I agree that there should be a [[list of moves that burn]] (not a category, unfortunately), but I don't think they should be considered variations. In my mind, examples of move variations are moves that have some unique game mechanic, such as {{m|Wrap|multi-turn}} {{m|Magma Storm|trapping}} {{m|Sand Tomb|moves}}, {{m|Fly|moves with}} {{m|Dig|an initial}} {{m|Shadow Force|invulnerable}} {{m|Dive|turn}}, {{m|Block|moves that}} {{m|Spider Web|prevent}} {{m|Mean Look|escape}}, or {{m|Protect|moves that can negate}} {{m|Detect|all negative effects}}—Moves that work so similarly that there are, for example, abilities that negate the set of them or moves that counter-act a set of them. These should be considered move variations. — [[User:Laoris|Laoris]] ([[User_Talk:Laoris|Blah]]) 01:33, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Starting tabs over.

I've always considered anything that does not cause damage on an otherwise damaging move to be a secondary effect so I think we are going to differ in thought there, unfortunately. Example: Razor Wind requires charging, has a high crit rate and deals damage, so the charging and high crit rate are both secondary effects. Screech causes only Defense down, so Defense down is the primary effect.

Taking each thing in turn, I don't think that just because Wrap and Magma Storm both cause multi-turn trapping is enough for them to be considered variations. They ought to have a page specifying this, but this does not make them variations, in the same way as Ember and Flamethrower. Ditto with with the semi-invulnerable moves. They are different enough (note which moves can hit which during the invulnerable turn, not to mention Power) to warrant an obviously acknowledged ''similarity'' but not actual variations.

As for your last two examples, those moves DO essentially do the exact same thing in every way, with the exception of PP, so I think, if we decide to exclude PP from the criteria (which I am fairly convinced we ought to do by now), then yes, I would consider those move variations.

(Somewhat off-topic, why not a category instead of a page? Then there would be links from the moves pages themselves, so they can actually be found... The Pokédex has tons of categories, I've noticed...) [[User:Dragoness|Dragoness]] 02:14, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
:Also, {{m|Mud-Slap}} and {{m|Sand-Attack}} are both Ground moves with a 100% chance of lowering Accuracy, and this can be prevented by abilities such as {{a|Keen Eye}}, but they're still clearly not variations of each other, right? (Asking because I consider Wrap and Bind and the like to be moves with 100% chance of causing trapping) [[User:Dragoness|Dragoness]] 02:24, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
::Why aren't Wrap and Magma Storm variations? They have the same primary effects (inflict damage over several turns at the end of each turn) and secondary effects (trap target during those turns). (Though there's no official source ordering those as primary and secondary; they could just as easily be reversed.) I realize that Ember and Flamethrower also have the same primary and secondary effects, but another issue I pointed out above is ''unique game-mechanics''. There are a hundred moves that have the same primary effect as Ember and Flamethrower (inflict damage) and very similar secondary effects (10% of a major status ailment). However, there are only 5 moves that work like Wrap and Magma Storm. I think that makes them remarkable enough to be noted as move variations.
::Since the definition of variation means details can vary. That means we could consider numerous damaging moves to be variations of each other. But I don't think it's notable if they don't have something that sets them apart from other moves.
::(As for the category thing, I don't know for sure, but the tons of categories issue might be the reason they didn't want even more categories for each detail.) — [[User:Laoris|Laoris]] ([[User_Talk:Laoris|Blah]]) 02:39, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
:::It seems to me like what you want would be better expressed in a different page, like "Moves that cause the same unique effects" ...Okay, "same unique" is a bit oxymoronic, but you know what I mean. ^^;

:::The reason I chose Mud-Slap and Sand-Attack as examples is because they ARE unique, in that Accuracy is not a standard stat, and there are only 5 moves that lower accuracy (and none that raise it, I think): Mud-Slap, Sand-Attack, {{m|Flash}}, {{m|Mirror Shot}}, and {{m|Muddy Water}}, but these are clearly not similar in any other way but that. (Asides from Flash and Sand-Attack, I would consider those variations of the other, with Gen IV's de-nerfing of Flash.) This page seems to have been created to illustrate which moves have only minor differences, with Power, Accuracy and % effect and PP cited specifically as things that must be the same. No matter which way you cut it, the only thing Wrap and Magma Storm have in common is their secondary multi-turn trapping effect, and I consider multi-turn trapping damage to be a single secondary effect (You are never going to have one of those moves inflict one without the other). Primary effect defaults to damage except for moves that do not ever deal damage. The game even categorizes them as Physical [[Image:PhysicalIC.gif]] and Special [[Image:SpecialIC.gif]], not Status [[Image:StatusIC.gif]]. You can cite their uniqueness, but there are only so many moves that do unique, specific things, like Burn, or charge, or high-crit, but then you'll end up with almost every move out there having at least one if not multiple variations. If you want to get really unique, {{m|Flame Wheel}} and {{m|Sacred Fire}} are the only moves that can thaw out their user. That makes them variations according to your definition, but they have nothing in common according to the definition already defined on this page. I think this all does deserve to be noted somewhere, but I don't think this is the right place, is what I'm trying to say. ._.; [[User:Dragoness|Dragoness]] 04:06, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

::::I am aware that calling certain moves variations of each other would go against the narrow definition of move variations already defined by this page, but I think it is incorrect. I give up though, so I'll just continue ignoring it. — [[User:Laoris|Laoris]] ([[User_Talk:Laoris|Blah]]) 04:40, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

== Protect? Detect? ==

Aren't they variations of each other? --[[User:Phred|Phred]] 08:18, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
:Someone should go down this whole talk page and just do it. --[[User:Raijinili|Raijinili]] 08:30, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
::Phred: They have the same effect, it looks like, but Detect has half of Protect's PP, so no, not according to our definition.
::Raijinili: What? --[[User:Martonimos|((Marton]] [[User talk:Martonimos|imos))]] 08:30, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
:::Although there are moves that say "10 or 15 pp" or something similar, so maybe... --[[User:Martonimos|((Marton]] [[User talk:Martonimos|imos))]] 08:33, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
::::I think a difference in PP is a poor reason not to consider two moves as variations of each other. They obviously have the same effect. — [[User:Laoris|Laoris]] ([[User_Talk:Laoris|Blah]]) 08:40, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
:::::To the point where the two moves share the same success rate. --[[User:Phred|Phred]] 23:47, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

== Rock Slide and Air Slash ==
Both have 75 BP, 30% Chance of Flinch, and 95(?) Accuraccy. I think that makes them variations on the same move.--[[User:Purimpopoie|Purimpopoie]] 16:01, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

== Thief and Covet ==

The only item-stealing damaging moves, with same power and accuracy, are yet to be covered here. I dropped a line earlier in hopes of the issue being picked up by more people, but it failed, my mistake. So I chose to be more direct in approach and now I ask, if other moves have ignored PP in favor of more relevant traits, shouldn't these two be listed as variations? I think there even used to be a template for both, but it got deleted. --[[User:Kaoz|Kaoz]] 16:13, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

== {{m|Glare}} and {{m|Stun Spore}} ==

Same effect, PP, accuracy and power (or the lack of it), varies on type only . These are variations, so I'll add them, but I don't know how to put the template on the move pages... {{u|Mr. Charlie}} 22:57, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

== Strength as first in a variation ==

I've realized that Dragon Claw and the others are exactly like Strength but in type, so i've changed that, and made Strength as the first in the variation. This is my first edit, i hope it's all-right, I don't know if the move wasn't in there because it is a HM.

--[[User:PokeTech|PokeTech]] 12:48, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
:Kudos for effort there. But yeah, we don't include HMs so it'll have to go back to how it was. Sorry. [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|R.A. Hunter B.]] 21:31, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
::''we don't include HMs'' Doesn't explain Waterfall, and no, "it wasn't a HM originally" doesn't seem like a good rationale to me. [[User:Frugali|Frugali]] 12:09, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
:::Well, I hadn't realized this at the time, but the variations of Waterfall have the flinching effect. And I see what you mean when you say that about not explaining it well. [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|R.A. Hunter B.]] 22:08, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

== Weather Moves ==

Aren't the weather moves variations of each other? Or at least Rain Dance/Sunny Day and Snadstorm/Hail? I mean, they all change to a weather for five turns. [[User:Mr. Charlie|Mr. ]][[User talk:Mr. Charlie|Charlie]] 18:25, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
:I guess you could consider them variations of each other, but I've never really thought of them like that. I'd wait to add it untill more people agree or disagree. [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|R.A. Hunter B.]] 18:51, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
::They all change weather but their effects are different. Well, indirectly. — [[User:Tenno Seremel|Tenno Seremel]] 21:40, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
:::That's the thing... I don't know if it should be added or not... they're like the elemental punches (damage + chance of status problem), because they change the weather condition during the battle and have a side effect... [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|R.A. Hunter B.]] 22:07, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
::::Go for it. Sunny Day, Rain Dance and Hail are all exactly the same (IIRC) and Sandstorm has 5 more PP. I'm not sure whether that matters, coz you guys had a huge argument about that... — [[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|THE TROM]] — 23:26, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
:::::Should I add it as "Variations of *insert weather move*" or as "Weather Conditions/Moves"? I'll add it anyways, but should it need to have the title changed I'll do that. [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|R.A. Hunter B.]] 16:04, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
::::Or should it be, like the original question, Rain Dance/Sunny Day and Sandstorm/Hail? Eh, I'll put it all together for now and it can be changed later.... [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|R.A. Hunter B.]] 16:09, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

== Powders and Flattering ==

How come that {{m|PoisonPowder}}, {{m|Sleep Powder}} and {{m|Stun Spore}} aren't move variations? They have the same accuracy, animation, the same Contest appeal and Pokémon learn them around the same time, it kind of makes sense that they are. 
Also {{m|Flatter}} and {{m|Swagger}} are variations as they both confuse but Swagger ups attack and Flatter ups Special Attack, I'm not sure how to add them lmao, I thought I should say it here first though ;) --[[User:Ripp145|Ripp145]] 12:23, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
:Apparently, Flatter only raises Special Attack one stage, while Swagger raises Attack by two stages. Also, both have different accuracy. Too many differences to qualify. --[[User:Kaoz|Kaoz]] 02:33, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
::The powders aren't considered variations yet?! ''Alpha'' [[User:CuboneKing|Cu]][[User talk:CuboneKing|bo]][[Special:Contributions/CuboneKing|ne]][[Cubone (Pokémon)|King]] 02:36, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
:::If we're discussing variations to add, I have a couple suggestions.
:Arm Thrust as a variation of Barrage
:Bind and Wrap as variations of Fire Spin
:Dark Pulse as variation of Zen Headbutt
:Fire Blast and Megahorn as variations of Blizzard
::With all these variations, they share identical effects, power and PP. The only difference between the suggested moves and the established moves is that accuracy is a tiny bit higher or lower. Also, some of the moves listed as variations don't qualify but are listed anyway. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 03:02, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

::Okay, I made a change that in hindsight I'm unsure of. In Gen 3, Leaf Blade fit the requirements to be considered a variation of Slash - 70 power, 15 pp, 100% accuracy, high chance for critical. But in Gen 4 it's power is 90, and it has its own variation now, Attack Order. So....what do we do? IMO, it should be considered variations of both, depending on the Generation. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 04:01, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

:::Yeah, no. The Barrage variations all have the same power and accuracy, Arm Thrust only has the same power. Fire Blast and Megahorn are different than Blizzard for a lot of things: Fire Blast has more accuracy, Megahorn has more accuracy, Megahorn has no secondary effect. Dark Pulse has more accuracy than Zen Headbutt. Bind, Wrap, and Fire Spin all have differnt accuracies. There's more to this page than just "Oh, it looks similar or has similar accuracy/PP/Power/type!" There's reasons that most of these aren't on there. The ones that don't seem like they fit are included because they either were the same, or are now the same. And Leaf Blade doesn't count, because it's already in a category that's more specific. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 20:15, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Why does Leaf Blade not count? It fit all the requirements before it's power was changed, if it doesn't count than neither does Zap Cannon as a variation of Dynamic Punch. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 20:26, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
:And like I said, there's already moves listed as variations that don't fit the requirements to count, or the requirements are flexible like "move does X or Y". [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 20:28, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

:I went through the list, here's some examples of the above:
::Blizzard's requirements are "5 or 10 PP", because otherwise Thunder wouldn't qualify. Also, Focus Blast doesn't qualify because it doesn't cause a status ailment
::Zap Cannon is listed as a variation of Dynamic Punch, but it has different power.
::Seed Flare is listed as a variation of Fire Blast, but it doesn't cause a status ailment.
::Surf is listed as a variation of Flamethrower but doesn't cause a status, and it says so right on the page
::Giga Drain's requirements again, "5 or 10 PP".
:I'm just saying, why are exceptions made for some moves to count them as variations, and not others? [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 20:47, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
:::PP is the only exception we make for differences. Zap Cannon and DynamicPunch are different than Leaf Blade. Did you even bother READING what I said about Leaf Blade other than that it doesn't count? It's in a category that's much more specific. It's with [[Template:Leaf Blade|Attack Order]]. Seed Flare and Fire Blast have the same power and accuracy, and both can have a secondary effect. As for Surf, I've always wondered that. I'll take that out of the template and this page. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 21:18, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
::::Yes I did read it, and I asked why Leaf Blade counts for Attack Order over Slash, when at times it has fulfilled the requirements to be a variation of both. And in that case, I'll assume Focus Blast gets the same exception as Seed Flare does. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 21:20, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
:::::Moves can't be in more than one category, which is why Leaf Blade is with Attack Order, since they match exactly except for type. And you're still missing what I've been saying. If they have different accuracies, they don't match. Focus Blast has 70%, and Seed Flare has 85%. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 21:29, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

I am paying attention to what you're saying. Now pay attention to what I'm saying. Focus Blast does not cause a status ailment as the other variations do, and Seed Flare doesn't either. Zap Cannon and Focus Blast have different powers. So why are they listed? And again, ''Leaf Blade can count as a variation of both Slash and Attack Order'', so why do we count one over the other? Why are some exceptions made and not others? [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 21:34, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
:No, I don't think you are. Focus Blast has a ''secondary effect'' like the others do, it's not limited to status or stat changes. As for Zap Cannon and Focus Blast, I just realized that yeah, it shouldn't be there. I'll change that too. If we put Leaf Blade in the Slash variations, then there wouldn't be one for Attack Order. And yeah, Leaf Blade ''used'' to be in both categories. It's not anymore. It has more power than Slash. The only ones that I can find that have different powers as of Gen IV are the Petal Dance variations. I'll see what I can do about that too. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 21:57, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
::That would be nice. I'm not trying to cause trouble or anything, and I'm sorry for arguing with you. I'm just noticing a double-standard in regards to the variations of some moves and want them sorted out one way or the other. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 22:00, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
:::I don't mind. Arguments need to be more than just "I'm right, you're wrong!" and stupid things like that, and thankfully this wasn't one of those times. This article has also had some issues with getting things like that straight, so glad you said something or it would have stayed that way. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 22:04, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
::::No problem. I admit I'm biased though, when I think of move variations I'm not as tight in my requirements as this page. I still feel like Hydro Pump ought to be a variation of something, but it doesn't fit any profiles here. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 22:18, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

== Lock-On and Mind Reader ==

Why aren't they here? [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 03:43, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

== Swapping moves ==

Heart Swap (maybe), Power Swap, and Guard Swap. All Psychic-type, 10 PP, Status. What do you think? [[User:Ht14|'''''ht''''']][[User talk:Ht14|''14'']] 00:52, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
:Support. Don't forget {{m|Skill Swap}}! [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 02:06, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
::That's ability though... also, what you did is a redirect. Learn... [[User:Ht14|'''''ht''''']][[User talk:Ht14|''14'']] 02:20, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
:::Still a Psychic-type, 10 PP, Status. As for redirect, so? It's a talk page. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 02:25, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
::::Argh... no... may as well say EVERY single status move. It doesn't matter typing as long as it's related. As for redirect, this still applies... [[User:Ht14|'''''ht''''']][[User talk:Ht14|''14'']] 02:29, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
:::::No, not "every" status move. I see four moves with "Swap" in their names all of which involve switching some sort of statistic with the opponent. What's the problem? [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 03:03, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
::::::Never mind. We'll keep it as that then. [[User:Ht14|'''''ht''''']][[User talk:Ht14|''14'']] 03:08, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

So we're adding them? [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 03:16, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

== Screech Variations ==

Couldn't Cotton Spore be a Screech Variation? It's not a sound move, but it does lower one target's speed by two levels and has the same PP and Accuracy. [[User:Mr. Charlie|'''Mr. Charlie''']]([[User_Talk:Mr. Charlie|''TalkToMe'']]) 04:26, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

== {{m|Karate Chop}} and {{m|Poison Tail}} ==
25 PP, 50 power, 100 Accuracy, high critical-hit ratios. What do you think? Also, would this need a new template to stick on the bottom of the move pages? [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 05:46, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
:Creating and adding. Any other moves that could go on this template? '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 13:34, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
::I don't think so, I looked at the other Critical Hit moves, none fit the definition. {{m|Air Cutter}} is close but its not exact. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 15:05, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
:::Alright. Just wanted to make sure nothing needed to be added. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 21:16, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

== Counter Moves ==

Hey, i'm a fan of the counter moves and i've noticed something, why isn't Metal Burst counted as a variation? I've used Mirror Coat and Counter with Glaceon and Hitmonchan respectively and Metal Burst does the effects of '''both''' Mirror Coat and Counter. [[User:Geomexis|Geomexis]] 12:51, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
:Because they aren't very close. If the effect has something different (such as Metal Burst has both, while Mirror Coat and Counter only have one), it isn't a variation. [[User:Turtwig A|Turt]][[wig]] [[Turtwig (Pokémon)|A]] ([[User talk:Turtwig A|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|contribs]]) 13:00, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
::Counter specifically only repays physical damage double what was taken, and Mirror Coat specifically only repays special damage double what was taken. Metal Burst repays 1.5 damage, or what was taken plus half of that amount. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 19:02, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

== Kisses ==

{{m|Lovely Kiss}} and {{m|Sweet Kiss}}

Same accuracy, same PP. First cause sleep, second - confusion. Aren't move variations? --[[User:ЫъГЬ|ЫъГЬ]] 15:08, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

== Tackle and Peck together? ==

{{m|Tackle}} and {{m|Peck}}

The two moves are in a grouping together, but I believe they should not be. They share the Base Power of 35, but while Tackle is 95% accurate, and it mistakenly says Peck to be, Peck is 100% accurate. -- [[User:Mattman324]] 22:58:00, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

Peck and Tackle aren't variations. Especially in generation V, where Tackle received a BP of 50. Myself, I would put Peck with Vine Whip, because they both have 35 BP, 100% accuracy and no special effect. Their PP, however, differs significantly, but does that really matter? (see below) --[[User:Grrgrrgrr1000|Grrgrrgrr1000]] 15:47, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

== Signal Beam ==

I know it seems weird, but {{m|Signal Beam}} is kinda of a variation of the elemental punches... 75 power, 100 acc, 15 PP and 10% of causing status. It breaks the "tradition", so to speak, but it fits more than many of the other variations here. [[User:Mr. Charlie|'''Mr. Charlie''']]([[User_Talk:Mr. Charlie|''TalkToMe'']]) 23:38, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

==This page needs COLOR!==
Seriously, it looks really dull, which is especially bad seeing as it's pretty much all tables. One of the coding wizards here should try to make a template that incorporates colors for the type of each variation and whether they are physical, special, or a status move. For status moves, color them differently based on which stat they change or status effect they inflict—whatever it takes to make this dull-looking article into an attractive resource. --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] 16:46, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
:I was just thinking of that myself, then I thought something like this would be perfect. But, you know, with colors for generations and stuff. I'm not a coding guy, I just throw the ideas. I don't mind working on the entire page, if needed, but I really don't know how. [[User:Mr. Charlie|'''Mr. Charlie''']]([[User_Talk:Mr. Charlie|''TalkToMe'']]) 12:00, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
{| align="center" style="background: #ddf; -moz-border-radius: 1em; border: 5px solid #ccf;"
|-
|
{| border=1 width="100%" align="center" class="sortable" style="background: #FFFFFF; border:1px solid #ddf; border-collapse:collapse;"
|- style="background: #ddf;"
! {{color2|000000|Move}}
! {{color2|000000|Elemental types|Type}}
! {{color2|000000|Damage category|Cat.}}
! {{color2|000000|Generation|Gen}}
{{tutormv|U-turn|Bug|cat=Physical|IV}}
{{tutormv|Volt Change|Electric|cat=Special|V}}
|}
|}
That looks good. You can probably lose the class="sortable" since the tables are all small. And make sure you use the region colors for the generation. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 10:04, 8 October 2010 (UTC)
:Yeah... The "how" with the generation/region colors is my issue here. Could you, or anyone, show me how to do it? Really not my area of expertise. [[User:Mr. Charlie|'''Mr. Charlie''']]([[User_Talk:Mr. Charlie|''TalkToMe'']]) 21:58, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
::How's this Edit: link removed for a quick mock-up? [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] [[User talk:Werdnae|(talk)]] 04:40, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
:::I likey. Let's use it. --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] 11:20, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
::::I like the idea, but don't forget that it will take longer to load this page.--[[User:Grrgrrgrr1000|Grrgrrgrr1000]] 15:36, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

== PP ==

In the article it says that moves need to have the same PP to be variations, but throughout the article it lists moves of differing PP as variations. Should they be removed? [[User:Pikiwyn|'''''Pikiwyn''''']] [[User talk:Pikiwyn|<tt>'''''talk'''''</tt>]] 17:46, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I would think so. You can't have the article contradict itself, can you? <code>;)</code> [[User:The Exterminator|The Exterminator]] 17:53, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
:I agree, for my edit and talk page reasons. It's [[User:Turtwig A|Turtwig A]]! [[User talk:Turtwig A|My talk]] or [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|wiki edits]] 00:52, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
::An article indeed shouldn't contradict itself. That's why the definition itself needs to be altered. --[[User:Grrgrrgrr1000|Grrgrrgrr1000]] 16:27, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

== Definition ==

The definition isn't specific enough. "Move variations are moves that are identical to each other in terms of damage, PP, and accuracy, but have different elemental types, damage categories, or secondary effects." The definition works for damaging moves but according to it almost all status moves that have the same PP are variations of each other. So I'm thinking maybe the article needs a different definition for status moves? [[User:Pikiwyn|'''''Pikiwyn''''']] [[User talk:Pikiwyn|<tt>'''''talk'''''</tt>]] 17:33, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
:How about something like, Status move variations are moves that raise or decrease the same number of stats by the same number of levels. It makes more sense because that way moves like Iron Defense will be a variant of Acid Armor, instead of the current description which makes Baton Pass a variant of Acid Armor. [[User:Pikiwyn|'''''Pikiwyn''''']] [[User talk:Pikiwyn|<tt>'''''talk'''''</tt>]] 13:37, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
::This is what the definition should be: "Move varations are moves that are identical in terms of dammage and accuracy, and have similar secondary effects." --[[User:Grrgrrgrr1000|Grrgrrgrr1000]] 16:33, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

== Thrash, Petal Dance, and Outrage ==

Here's my question. Thrash and Petal Dance are grouped together, but Outrage is not included only because is has 15 PP instead of 10. This difference seems minor to me, and so I think Outrage should be insluded in this group, with a note on it. If this doesn't work, then it doesn't work, but I know for a fact that most people focos on the actual move and its effects, not the PP it has. There are even people in this talk (although from 2 years ago lol) that group them together, and I know that most people think they are the same move with different types, especially now that they have the same power in Gen V. --[[User:Jdthebud|Jdthebud]] 23:11, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
:I know that we don't want the article to contradict itself in this regard, but I think that these three moves are so similar that this could be the exception to the rule. --[[User:Jdthebud|Jdthebud]] 23:23, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
::Outrage should be included. Reason: see below.--[[User:Grrgrrgrr1000|Grrgrrgrr1000]] 15:44, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

== PP shouldn't be taken into account ==

Taking the PP into account makes the list messier and more incomplete. They are also not the most important aspect anyway ingame: it doesn't really matter if a move has 35 PP or 40 PP. Seperating Night Slash from Slash, for example, causes an unnecesary amount of slots.--[[User:Grrgrrgrr1000|Grrgrrgrr1000]] 15:44, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:I agree 100%. PP is such a minor detail, it shouldn't even matter. The important thing is base power, similar or identical side effects, and accuracy. Any move that only serves to boost a stat by two stages is a variation of Acid Armor. Well, I'm not entirely sure on Body Purge, given its other effect of halving the user's weight, but still. My point is, PP shouldn't be taken into account. - ''unsigned comment from [[User:Missingno. Master|Missingno. Master]] ([[User talk:Missingno. Master|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Missingno._Master|contribs]])'' 16:35, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
::I agree too. IMO, the amount of PP is more minor than {{tt|Damage Category|although it shouldn't be included}}.----'''''無限の知性''''' ◎ [[User:Dennou Zenshi|ＤＥＮＮＯＵ]]'''[[Special:Random|◆]]'''[[User talk:Dennou Zenshi|ＺＥＮＳＨＩ]] 16:44, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:::I also agree, it doesn't make sense that something like acid armor isn't a variant of iron defense. [[User:Pikiwyn|'''''Pikiwyn''''']] [[User talk:Pikiwyn|<tt>'''''talk'''''</tt>]] 17:32, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
::::OK, so if the majority think that PP shouldn't count, we can put it back how it was. I changed it because it seemed that people wanted PP to count. I think it should be considered at least under some circumstances. I will stop changing the templates for move variations until the issue is resolved.
::::Also, it did not create an excessive amount of categories—several were deleted and several were made, balancing out. And PP is much more influential the damage categories. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 08:12, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Ok, it's maybe better to wait until there aren't any issues about that anymore. You can always watch the version regardless of PP (where I was responsible for) at this URL: http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Move_variations&oldid=1253819--[[User:Grrgrrgrr1000|Grrgrrgrr1000]] 19:38, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::After discussing it with a couple of other admins, we decided that the PP does not have to be the same, but it should be similar. i.e. it should differ by five or less. More than that is an indication that the moves aren't especially similar. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] [[User talk:Werdnae|(talk)]] 20:38, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

==Different catagories==

I have seperated the status moves from the other moves. The sharply-stat raising moves (besides those of 15PP) are now next to each other.--[[User:Grrgrrgrr1000|Grrgrrgrr1000]] 16:56, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Haze & Mist ==

Can someone add Haze & Mist to the list (they are counterparts)?[[User:Vuvuzela2010|Vuvuzela2010]] 08:32, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

== Shadow Ball/Crunch as variations of Waterfall ==

I added them to variations of waterfall and changed the definition of waterfall so that they both fit. But since all previous variations caused flinching, and the two I added lower defense /sp. def should they be considered two different moveset variations? Also, the templates under shadow ball and crunch I left as they are because I have no idea how to do it, or if even they are in fact variations of waterfall. Thanks...

== Extreme Speed and Sucker Punch ==
{{m|Extremespeed}} now has +2 priority instead of +1. So, isn't it not a variation of {{m|Sucker Punch}} anymore? Also Sucker Punch work in different way, so this moves seems even less likely to be variations. --[[User:ЫъГЬ|ЫъГЬ]] 09:39, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

== Elemental Surfs? ==

Discharge is like surf, affecting all opponents. Also a poison move.

Also Poison Fang should be with the fangs.[[User:Tesseract|Tesseract]] 08:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
:Discharge does not have the same base power as Surf. Therefore, not a variant. Poison Fang also does not have the same base power as the other fangs. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 08:58, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Order of Oath Moves Doesn't Matter ==

Hasn't it been confirmed that the Oath moves can be used in any order to produce the same effect? Each individual page should be updated accordingly. (I figured I'd say this here instead of repeating myself on each individual page. This page (Move Variations) seems correct, but the individual pages are not.) [[User:Grei|Grei]] 18:01, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Move variations/Archive 1

2010-12-18T18:03:08Z

Grei: /* Order of Oath Moves not necessary */

== Template? ==

This page was an excellent idea, but I wonder if there's a way to indicate in each move's article when it belongs to one of these "archetypes". --[[User:Johans|Johans Nidorino]] 21:10, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

I suggested it but it was forgotten later on; and unfortunately, I don't know how to make templates. -([[User:Llxwarbirdxll|Llxwarbirdxll]] 02:35, 29 May 2007 (UTC))
:Template namespace. I'll whip one up. --'''[[User:TTEchidna|T]][[User talk:TTEchidna|T]][[wp:Echidna|Echidna]]''' 02:53, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
::Maybe this is not the right place to suggest, but take a look at the template (Flamethrower as an example):
{| align="center" class="toccolours" cellspacing="2" style="border: 3px solid #88a; border-radius:20px; -moz-border-radius:20px;"
|-
! colspan="2" style="background: #ccf; border: border-radius:20px; -moz-border-radius:20px; padding: 2px 15px;" | [[Move variations|Variations]] of the move {{m|Flamethrower}}
|- style="font-size:90%;" align="center"
| {{ic|Special}}
| {{mcolor|Flamethrower|{{fire color}}}} | {{mcolor|Ice Beam|{{ice color dark}}}} | {{mcolor|Slime Wave|{{poison color dark}}}} | {{mcolor|Thunderbolt|{{electric color dark}}}}
|}
<noinclude>[[Category:Move navigation templates]]</noinclude>
::Flamethrower mentioned twice, while there is no actual link to ''Variations of Flamethrower''. I believe it will be better this way:

{| align="center" class="toccolours" cellspacing="2" style="border: 3px solid #88a; border-radius:20px; -moz-border-radius:20px;"
|-
! colspan="2" style="background: #ccf; border: border-radius:20px; -moz-border-radius:20px; padding: 2px 15px;" | [[Move_variations#Variations_of_Flamethrower|Variations of the move Flamethrower]]:
|- style="font-size:90%;" align="center"
| {{ic|Special}}
| {{mcolor|Flamethrower|{{fire color}}}} | {{mcolor|Ice Beam|{{ice color dark}}}} | {{mcolor|Slime Wave|{{poison color dark}}}} | {{mcolor|Thunderbolt|{{electric color dark}}}}
|}
<noinclude>[[Category:Move navigation templates]]</noinclude>
::--[[User:ЫъГЬ|ЫъГЬ]] 11:09, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
:::I agree. It does make more sense that way. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 11:12, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== New Variation ==

There neeeds to be a Move Variation for the Following moves:
* {{m|Psybeam}}
* {{m|Bubblebeam}}
* {{m|Aurora Beam}}
* {{m|Sludge}}
* {{m|Spark}}
I have checked them all out and they each have:
* Power: 65
* Accuracy: 100%
* PP: 20
P.S. I don't know how to do this myself so really I'm asking for somebody to do this for me!
[[User:Tesh|Tesh]] 16:53, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Actually, I'm not sure if this should be counted as they each have a different added effect, either a [[status ailment]] or a [[stat]] change. Somebody gie me their:view...[[User:Tesh|Tesh]] 20:32, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
:Maybe keep the status-changing ones together, and keep the stat-changing ones together, but keep them separate. That means {{m|Psybeam}}, {{m|Sludge}}, and {{m|Spark}} go together, and {{m|BubbleBeam}} and {{m|Aurora Beam}} go together.
:And don't forget to use the {{template|m}} template for moves. '''[[User:TTEchidna|T]][[User talk:TTEchidna|T]][[wp:Echidna|Echidna]]''' 00:22, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
By the way, I think you've got the wrong idea. I'm not sure on how to create the move variation. I only realised they were similar... [[User:Tesh|Tesh]] 15:34, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

== "Or" ==

Is "10 or 15" valid [[Move variations#Variations of Shadow Ball|here]]? I'd say the use of every possible move variation no matter the amount of PPs it has would require a redefinition. BTW, {{m|Ice Beam}} and {{m|Thunder}} don't belong in the tables they've been introduced in if following the original criterion. --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 05:04, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, I put those there. I'll have them removed. [[User:Llxwarbirdxll|Llxwarbirdxll]] 08:20, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

:LOL, now somebody else did the same with variations of Slash, Waterfall, and Shadow Ball :P --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 16:08, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

People are no longer respecting the "PPs" part of the definition. With "Variations of Flamethrower" the article mentions neither 15 nor 10 now. If this is going to continue, maybe Bulbapedia's definition on "move variations" should no longer include PPs, which seems to be the least important of the three columns. --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 18:35, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

== Seismic Toss and Night Shade? ==

Those belong on the list, right?
[[User:Angerman|Angerman]] 20:10, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
:Doesn't {{m|Night Shade}} do somewhere from 1 to 1.5x the level? I know {{m|Seismic Toss}} does the level. '''[[User:TTEchidna|T]][[User talk:TTEchidna|T]][[wp:Echidna|Echidna]]''' 23:07, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
::No, Psywave does from 0.5 to 1.5x the level. But Night Shade always does damage equal to the level. --[[User:Shiny Noctowl|Shiny Noctowl]] 23:11, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
:Still, they don't have the same amout of default total PPs. --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 01:53, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
::They're stretching it nowadays though. Hmm...{{m|Zap Cannon}} and {{m|Dynamicpunch}}... [[User:Ht14|'''''ht''''']][[User talk:Ht14|''14'']] 22:11, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
Well, I'm sure {{m|Stone Edge}} and {{m|Cross Chop}} are variations. [[User:Angerman|Angerman]] 07:00, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
:Definitely ^_^ --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 16:46, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

==Stub?==
Is it Still a stub?--[[User:Torchic-ken|Torchic-ken]] 2:58, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
:Yeah, there's a few missing bits. [[User:Angerman|Angerman]] 00:10, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

== Mean Look/Block/Spider Web? ==

I noticed there isn't a section for these three moves, and while Block and Mean Look fit a "5 PP, Prevents foe from escaping" description, Spider Web only has one thing setting them apart and that's the PP issue. Should I add it anyway? [[User:TinaTheKirlia|TinaTheKirlia]] 01:47, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
:Add only Mean Look and Block. That's what has been done in these cases to agree with the current definition of "move archetypes". --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 08:01, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

== Counter and Mirror Coat? ==

I'm really surprised no one did this - they both have 10PP, varying power, 100% accuracy and they both go last and counter the foe's attack at two times the power. I was trying to find a good way to summarize it though - how's this? "Goes last and counters the move used by the foe at twice the power". [[User:TinaTheKirlia|Tina]][[User talk:TinaTheKirlia|The]][[Kirlia (Pokémon)|Kirlia]] ♥ [[Image:281MS.gif]] 21:23, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
:That works. '''[[User:TTEchidna|TTE]][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 23:41, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

== Softboiled and Milk Drink ==

Even though they're listed under variations of Recover.. they both can do something Recover can not -- heal other Pokémon's HP outside of battle. I think this deserves a mention. :P [[User:Tina|Tina]] [[Special:Contributions/Tina|δ]][[User talk:Tina|♫]] 18:58, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

== Contests? ==

I think it would be incredibly useful to have a version of this page for contests, since many of the moves do the exact same things.
Thoughts...? [[User:Maki|Maki]] 13:47, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
:I agree. However it'd have to be set up differently. It'd be like... effect, cute moves, beauty moves, smart moves, tough moves, cool moves. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]][[Image:Ani155MS.gif|Fire echy]]''' 20:49, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

== Blizzard ==

Are Magma Storm and Focus Blast ''really'' variations of Blizzard? Neither inflict a status ailment and Magma Storm sounds more like a multi-turn move. The only similarities seem to be 120 power

Also, I think Thunder should be added as a variation. It has 10 PP, not 5, but it causes a status ailment, has 120 power and 70 accuracy. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 20:28, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
:Thunder and Blizzard also have their accuracy at 100% when used during a specific weather condition. Magma Storm seems most like Outrage, though that goes 2-3 turns, and Focus Blast is just... its own thing. Not ''every'' move has a counterpart, that's what people need to remember. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]][[Image:Ani155MS.gif|Fire echy]]''' 20:38, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
::That's what I mean, a lot of the moves I mentioned, as well as Hydro Pump, Seed Flare and Fire Blast are all ''similar'', but variations of each other? I'd say they're similar moves, but not direct variations. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 20:40, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
:::Yes. Variations: Do the same thing. Similarity: have the same PP, power, or accuracy but don't do the same thing. Outrage and Thrash are variations, despite Outrage now being 120 power. Focus Blast and Blizzard are not because all they share is accuracy and power. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]][[Image:Ani155MS.gif|Fire echy]]''' 21:21, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
::::So, should we move some of the moves I mentioned around? That's what I've been suggesting. I think Magma Storm should be grouped with Outrage and Thrash, and Blizzard, Thunder and Gunk Shot should be in a group. Maybe Seed Flare and Focus Blast too, their effects are identical except for accuracy. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 00:39, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

==Order==
Why aren't they in alphabetical order? {{u|MathijsP}}
:Beats me. Last time I organized them I put them in order by damage. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 01:59, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

==Dragon Claw, X-Scissor, Seed Bomb==

Aren't these all variations? They all do 80 damage, have 15 PP, and no added effect. Can I add them? --[[User:Dark Sage|Dark Sage]] 18:25, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
:You forget to mention the accuracy, but it happens that it's the same! So yeah, they're move variations. --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 18:20, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
Great. I guess I'll add them now. --[[User:Dark Sage|Dark Sage]] 18:25, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Actually, I don't think I know how to do the template. Can someone else do that? --[[User:Dark Sage|Dark Sage]] 18:27, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Nevermind, I got them. :) --[[User:Dark Sage|Dark Sage]] 21:05, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

==Ice Beam?==

Ice Beam has only 10 PP, yet it's claimed to be a variation of Flamethrower and Thunderbolt, which have 15 PP. Can I remove that? --[[User:Dark Sage|Dark Sage]] 21:08, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
:Ice Beam is the most useful of all three, but is still the same. Same power, accuracy and rate to inflict a status problem. Part of Ice Beam may be the fact frozen Pokémon are helpless. [[User:Gywall|'''Gywall''']]([[User_talk:Gywall|Talk]]) 21:15, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
::Ice Beam is one of the more visible move variations in normal gameplay. --[[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] |[[User talk:Fabu-Vinny|Talk Page]]| 21:21, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Ah. I see. OK. --[[User:Dark Sage|Dark Sage]] 00:46, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

== Air Slash? ==

I wonder if, shouldnt Air Slash be in the "variations of Slash" since it IS a Slash move after all? o: what do you people think? I havn't really looked up the PP, accuracy and power, but its very similar to Night Slash and Slash. :c--[[User:Angela-Samshi|Angela-Samshi]] 17:50, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

:Slash and Night Slash have high critical-hit ratios, Air Slash may cause the opponent to flinch. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 17:54, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Ahh, ok thanks. --[[User:Angela-Samshi|Angela-Samshi]] 18:09, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

== Pound <-> Gust? ==

Gust isn't a variation of Pound, is it? - [[User:FireHazard|Hazardous FIRE!]] 00:08, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
:Yes it is. 35 PP, 40 power, 100% accuracy–yup, variation. --[[user:Baby G|Baby G]] ([[user talk:Baby G|talk to me]]) ([[Special:Contributions/Baby_G|see my edits]]) 23:10, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

== Arm Thrust ==

I read that the accuracy of Arm Thrust was 100 percent, but it was under the variations of Barrage, saying that its accuracy was 85 percent. Is its accuracy 85 or 100, cuz I don't wanna do an edit with wrong info.---[[User:Hitmonchan90|Hitmonchan90]] 23:07, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

==Bulk Up and Calm Mind?==

They both have 20 PP, and raise Attack and Defense/Special Attack and Special Defense one stage, respectively. Variants? All signs point to yes. [[User:Master Lucario|Master Lucario]]
:Yep, variations. Added. --[[user:Baby G|Baby G]] ([[user talk:Baby G|talk to me]]) ([[Special:Contributions/Baby_G|see my edits]]) 21:30, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

== Reorganised ==

Since the moves were looking kinda messy, since the order was somewhat random, I went and moved the sections around to order it A-Z. Exceptions being Elemental X and the OHKO moves as they are listed differently. [[User:Gywall|'''Gywall''']]([[User_talk:Gywall|Talk]]) 17:27, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

I believe the order was by Base Power of the attacks. [[User:The Placebo Effect|The Placebo Effect]] 13:29, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

== Sections for both {{m|Tail Glow}} AND {{m|Agility}}? ==

I've noticed that there are two sections that both share similar attributes, both sections detail moves that have 20 PP but increase a stat two stages, however, One details just Special attack raisers while the other details the other ones.

Should there be two or should they be put together? [[User:PDL|PDL]] 00:22, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
:I was thinking the same thing, but then I found out that all the listed variations of Agility (including Agility itself) have ''30'' PP, and that Tail Glow and {{m|Nasty Plot}} have ''20'' PP. --[[user:chocolate|Cho]][[user talk:chocolate|col]][[special:contributions/chocolate|ate]] 00:23, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
:Agility has 30 PP.Otherwise, I would say yes--[[User:DCM|DCM]][[User talk:DCM|((Talk]][[Special:Contributions/DCM|Contributions))]]

I just noticed that now as well ^^; [[User:PDL|PDL]] 00:35, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

== Crabhammer ==

Both Crabhammer and Blaze Kick ''used'' to be signature moves. Should this be noted? --[[User:Raijinili|Raijinili]] 21:43, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
:I don't think it should. <big>[[user:chocolate|Cho]][[user talk:chocolate|col]][[special:contributions/chocolate|ate]]</big> 21:47, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

== Lock-On/Mind Reader ==

How about them? [[User:Ht14|''ht'']][[User talk:Ht14|''14'']] 23:19, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
:I remember them having the exactly same effect, so if my memory serves me right, they could be added. UltimateSephiroth ([[User:UltimateSephiroth|user]] · [[User talk:UltimateSephiroth|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/UltimateSephiroth|contrib]]) 23:29, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
::How about {{m|Whirlwind}} and {{m|Roar}}? [[User:Ht14|''ht'']][[User talk:Ht14|''14'']] 04:05, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

== {{m|Spikes}} / {{m|Toxic Spikes}} ==

Should these be parterned up?--[[User:RexRacer|'''Rex]][[Quilava (Pokémon)|Racer''']] [[User talk:RexRacer|'''''-talk''''']] 16:26, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
:Don't forget about {{m|Stealth Rock}}, too. [[user:chocolate|Cho]][[user talk:chocolate|col]][[special:contributions/chocolate|ate]] 16:28, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

== This page needs work ==

First of all, should PP be accounted for or not? Right now, some do and some don't. I don't really care which one we go with, so long as it's consistent.

Second, effects are not being grouped together consistently either. Example: Spark has a 30% chance of inducing Paralyze. Psybeam has a 10% chance of inducing Confusion. 30 != 10. Another example: Flamethrower has a 10% chance of inducing Burn. Surf has 0% chance of inducing anything at all, and has a different target range on top of that. Also, the diffence between "Acid Armor variations" and "Amnesia variations"? Ignoring the PP difference (the Acid Armor variations already do this anyway), who really cares if they raise Special stats or not? You could just as easily group them by Defense or Attack stats. On the other hand, I say just go with "raises a stat by two stages" and leave it at that.

Third, I do not think "non-[http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/volatile volatile]" means what you think it means. Why not just put "non-damaging effect" or something else a bit more clear and grammatically correct? [[User:Dragoness|Dragoness]] 04:57, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

:I never thought PP should be accounted for. A lot of the moves might have the same PP but if all the important other stuff is the same, the moves are pretty much variations! [[User:Toastypk|'''''~Toastypk''''']] - [[User_Talk:Toastypk|'''Loom.''']] 05:06, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Thief and Covet will never be counted as variations if taking PP into account. --[[User:Kaoz|Kaoz]] 15:57, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
:And that's the sad thing, they're pretty much the same kind of item-stealing damaging move. PP is a moot point! [[User:Toastypk|'''''~Toastypk''''']] - [[User_Talk:Toastypk|'''Loom.''']] 00:22, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

::If there's only one thing different about a move variation, it can still be considered a variation. For example, {{m|Surf}} is one of the {{m|Flamethrower}} variations, because it has the same power, PP, and accuracy. The only thing different is the effect. [[User:Chocolate|Chocolate]] ([[User talk:Chocolate|Chat with Me]]) 00:44, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
:::Actually, you could argue that Surf is a variation of Earthquake, since they have the same range and the same effect (none). Surf has more PP and less power, but it also has two things different from Flamethrower: range and effect. See? You can't just go "Oh they're close ENOUGH", you have to pick your criteria and stick with it. Either effect counts or it doesn't count. Either range counts or it doesn't count. Either PP counts or it doesn't count. If you start flubbing things, that's only going to make things more complicated down the line. [[User:Dragoness|Dragoness]] 03:23, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

:::Earthquake has the anti-{{m|Dig}} effect. --[[User:Raijinili|Raijinili]] 02:55, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
::::Good point, that's another thing they have in common, since Surf can hit during Dive too. [[User:Dragoness|Dragoness]] 03:15, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
::::I don't think there needs to be a set of rigid rules for move variations. By definition, variation implies differing conditions, character, and degree. That said, I do think that a move variations should have identical or ''very'' similar effects. PP and base power are relatively unimportant to me, when two moves have unique identical effects. Consider Bind, Fire Spin, and Whirlpool: they are all multi-turn attacks that trap their foe. They work exactly the same, and have relatively unique effects (only a handful of moves work like this). However, Bulbapedia currently only considers Fire Spin and Whirlpool as "variations". — [[User:Laoris|Laoris]] ([[User_Talk:Laoris|Blah]]) 03:18, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
:::::I think that trapping should have its own page. It's not as if the creators sat around and thought, "Hey, wouldn't it be cool to have a clone of this move for that element?" I think the process was more like, "Hey, why not have this as a mechanic?" --[[User:Raijinili|Raijinili]] 05:12, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
:::::Minor problem with that though. Ember, Flamethrower and Fire Blast (and probably others but those are the big ones) all have a 10% chance of causing burn. Moreover, they're all Fire attacks. If we go solely by effect, then that makes them variations of each other. So then we have moves that are multiple variations in one. Is that really ok? I mean, I can see it going either way...

:::::One possibility is to split it into two things, where there are moves that are strictly exact copies of each other minus type and specific effect (not % chance of effect though, that has to say the same), and then other moves that just do the same thing but are not exact copies. Like, if I want to look for moves that cause Burn, there could be a category that I could go to and look there, and likewise for moves that cause trapping, or moves that hit everyone on the field. Does that sound reasonable? [[User:Dragoness|Dragoness]] 01:14, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

::::::I'm not talking about secondary effects like 10% of burn or confusion. I agree that there should be a [[list of moves that burn]] (not a category, unfortunately), but I don't think they should be considered variations. In my mind, examples of move variations are moves that have some unique game mechanic, such as {{m|Wrap|multi-turn}} {{m|Magma Storm|trapping}} {{m|Sand Tomb|moves}}, {{m|Fly|moves with}} {{m|Dig|an initial}} {{m|Shadow Force|invulnerable}} {{m|Dive|turn}}, {{m|Block|moves that}} {{m|Spider Web|prevent}} {{m|Mean Look|escape}}, or {{m|Protect|moves that can negate}} {{m|Detect|all negative effects}}—Moves that work so similarly that there are, for example, abilities that negate the set of them or moves that counter-act a set of them. These should be considered move variations. — [[User:Laoris|Laoris]] ([[User_Talk:Laoris|Blah]]) 01:33, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Starting tabs over.

I've always considered anything that does not cause damage on an otherwise damaging move to be a secondary effect so I think we are going to differ in thought there, unfortunately. Example: Razor Wind requires charging, has a high crit rate and deals damage, so the charging and high crit rate are both secondary effects. Screech causes only Defense down, so Defense down is the primary effect.

Taking each thing in turn, I don't think that just because Wrap and Magma Storm both cause multi-turn trapping is enough for them to be considered variations. They ought to have a page specifying this, but this does not make them variations, in the same way as Ember and Flamethrower. Ditto with with the semi-invulnerable moves. They are different enough (note which moves can hit which during the invulnerable turn, not to mention Power) to warrant an obviously acknowledged ''similarity'' but not actual variations.

As for your last two examples, those moves DO essentially do the exact same thing in every way, with the exception of PP, so I think, if we decide to exclude PP from the criteria (which I am fairly convinced we ought to do by now), then yes, I would consider those move variations.

(Somewhat off-topic, why not a category instead of a page? Then there would be links from the moves pages themselves, so they can actually be found... The Pokédex has tons of categories, I've noticed...) [[User:Dragoness|Dragoness]] 02:14, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
:Also, {{m|Mud-Slap}} and {{m|Sand-Attack}} are both Ground moves with a 100% chance of lowering Accuracy, and this can be prevented by abilities such as {{a|Keen Eye}}, but they're still clearly not variations of each other, right? (Asking because I consider Wrap and Bind and the like to be moves with 100% chance of causing trapping) [[User:Dragoness|Dragoness]] 02:24, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
::Why aren't Wrap and Magma Storm variations? They have the same primary effects (inflict damage over several turns at the end of each turn) and secondary effects (trap target during those turns). (Though there's no official source ordering those as primary and secondary; they could just as easily be reversed.) I realize that Ember and Flamethrower also have the same primary and secondary effects, but another issue I pointed out above is ''unique game-mechanics''. There are a hundred moves that have the same primary effect as Ember and Flamethrower (inflict damage) and very similar secondary effects (10% of a major status ailment). However, there are only 5 moves that work like Wrap and Magma Storm. I think that makes them remarkable enough to be noted as move variations.
::Since the definition of variation means details can vary. That means we could consider numerous damaging moves to be variations of each other. But I don't think it's notable if they don't have something that sets them apart from other moves.
::(As for the category thing, I don't know for sure, but the tons of categories issue might be the reason they didn't want even more categories for each detail.) — [[User:Laoris|Laoris]] ([[User_Talk:Laoris|Blah]]) 02:39, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
:::It seems to me like what you want would be better expressed in a different page, like "Moves that cause the same unique effects" ...Okay, "same unique" is a bit oxymoronic, but you know what I mean. ^^;

:::The reason I chose Mud-Slap and Sand-Attack as examples is because they ARE unique, in that Accuracy is not a standard stat, and there are only 5 moves that lower accuracy (and none that raise it, I think): Mud-Slap, Sand-Attack, {{m|Flash}}, {{m|Mirror Shot}}, and {{m|Muddy Water}}, but these are clearly not similar in any other way but that. (Asides from Flash and Sand-Attack, I would consider those variations of the other, with Gen IV's de-nerfing of Flash.) This page seems to have been created to illustrate which moves have only minor differences, with Power, Accuracy and % effect and PP cited specifically as things that must be the same. No matter which way you cut it, the only thing Wrap and Magma Storm have in common is their secondary multi-turn trapping effect, and I consider multi-turn trapping damage to be a single secondary effect (You are never going to have one of those moves inflict one without the other). Primary effect defaults to damage except for moves that do not ever deal damage. The game even categorizes them as Physical [[Image:PhysicalIC.gif]] and Special [[Image:SpecialIC.gif]], not Status [[Image:StatusIC.gif]]. You can cite their uniqueness, but there are only so many moves that do unique, specific things, like Burn, or charge, or high-crit, but then you'll end up with almost every move out there having at least one if not multiple variations. If you want to get really unique, {{m|Flame Wheel}} and {{m|Sacred Fire}} are the only moves that can thaw out their user. That makes them variations according to your definition, but they have nothing in common according to the definition already defined on this page. I think this all does deserve to be noted somewhere, but I don't think this is the right place, is what I'm trying to say. ._.; [[User:Dragoness|Dragoness]] 04:06, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

::::I am aware that calling certain moves variations of each other would go against the narrow definition of move variations already defined by this page, but I think it is incorrect. I give up though, so I'll just continue ignoring it. — [[User:Laoris|Laoris]] ([[User_Talk:Laoris|Blah]]) 04:40, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

== Protect? Detect? ==

Aren't they variations of each other? --[[User:Phred|Phred]] 08:18, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
:Someone should go down this whole talk page and just do it. --[[User:Raijinili|Raijinili]] 08:30, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
::Phred: They have the same effect, it looks like, but Detect has half of Protect's PP, so no, not according to our definition.
::Raijinili: What? --[[User:Martonimos|((Marton]] [[User talk:Martonimos|imos))]] 08:30, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
:::Although there are moves that say "10 or 15 pp" or something similar, so maybe... --[[User:Martonimos|((Marton]] [[User talk:Martonimos|imos))]] 08:33, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
::::I think a difference in PP is a poor reason not to consider two moves as variations of each other. They obviously have the same effect. — [[User:Laoris|Laoris]] ([[User_Talk:Laoris|Blah]]) 08:40, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
:::::To the point where the two moves share the same success rate. --[[User:Phred|Phred]] 23:47, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

== Rock Slide and Air Slash ==
Both have 75 BP, 30% Chance of Flinch, and 95(?) Accuraccy. I think that makes them variations on the same move.--[[User:Purimpopoie|Purimpopoie]] 16:01, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

== Thief and Covet ==

The only item-stealing damaging moves, with same power and accuracy, are yet to be covered here. I dropped a line earlier in hopes of the issue being picked up by more people, but it failed, my mistake. So I chose to be more direct in approach and now I ask, if other moves have ignored PP in favor of more relevant traits, shouldn't these two be listed as variations? I think there even used to be a template for both, but it got deleted. --[[User:Kaoz|Kaoz]] 16:13, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

== {{m|Glare}} and {{m|Stun Spore}} ==

Same effect, PP, accuracy and power (or the lack of it), varies on type only . These are variations, so I'll add them, but I don't know how to put the template on the move pages... {{u|Mr. Charlie}} 22:57, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

== Strength as first in a variation ==

I've realized that Dragon Claw and the others are exactly like Strength but in type, so i've changed that, and made Strength as the first in the variation. This is my first edit, i hope it's all-right, I don't know if the move wasn't in there because it is a HM.

--[[User:PokeTech|PokeTech]] 12:48, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
:Kudos for effort there. But yeah, we don't include HMs so it'll have to go back to how it was. Sorry. [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|R.A. Hunter B.]] 21:31, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
::''we don't include HMs'' Doesn't explain Waterfall, and no, "it wasn't a HM originally" doesn't seem like a good rationale to me. [[User:Frugali|Frugali]] 12:09, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
:::Well, I hadn't realized this at the time, but the variations of Waterfall have the flinching effect. And I see what you mean when you say that about not explaining it well. [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|R.A. Hunter B.]] 22:08, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

== Weather Moves ==

Aren't the weather moves variations of each other? Or at least Rain Dance/Sunny Day and Snadstorm/Hail? I mean, they all change to a weather for five turns. [[User:Mr. Charlie|Mr. ]][[User talk:Mr. Charlie|Charlie]] 18:25, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
:I guess you could consider them variations of each other, but I've never really thought of them like that. I'd wait to add it untill more people agree or disagree. [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|R.A. Hunter B.]] 18:51, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
::They all change weather but their effects are different. Well, indirectly. — [[User:Tenno Seremel|Tenno Seremel]] 21:40, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
:::That's the thing... I don't know if it should be added or not... they're like the elemental punches (damage + chance of status problem), because they change the weather condition during the battle and have a side effect... [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|R.A. Hunter B.]] 22:07, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
::::Go for it. Sunny Day, Rain Dance and Hail are all exactly the same (IIRC) and Sandstorm has 5 more PP. I'm not sure whether that matters, coz you guys had a huge argument about that... — [[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|THE TROM]] — 23:26, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
:::::Should I add it as "Variations of *insert weather move*" or as "Weather Conditions/Moves"? I'll add it anyways, but should it need to have the title changed I'll do that. [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|R.A. Hunter B.]] 16:04, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
::::Or should it be, like the original question, Rain Dance/Sunny Day and Sandstorm/Hail? Eh, I'll put it all together for now and it can be changed later.... [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|R.A. Hunter B.]] 16:09, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

== Powders and Flattering ==

How come that {{m|PoisonPowder}}, {{m|Sleep Powder}} and {{m|Stun Spore}} aren't move variations? They have the same accuracy, animation, the same Contest appeal and Pokémon learn them around the same time, it kind of makes sense that they are. 
Also {{m|Flatter}} and {{m|Swagger}} are variations as they both confuse but Swagger ups attack and Flatter ups Special Attack, I'm not sure how to add them lmao, I thought I should say it here first though ;) --[[User:Ripp145|Ripp145]] 12:23, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
:Apparently, Flatter only raises Special Attack one stage, while Swagger raises Attack by two stages. Also, both have different accuracy. Too many differences to qualify. --[[User:Kaoz|Kaoz]] 02:33, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
::The powders aren't considered variations yet?! ''Alpha'' [[User:CuboneKing|Cu]][[User talk:CuboneKing|bo]][[Special:Contributions/CuboneKing|ne]][[Cubone (Pokémon)|King]] 02:36, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
:::If we're discussing variations to add, I have a couple suggestions.
:Arm Thrust as a variation of Barrage
:Bind and Wrap as variations of Fire Spin
:Dark Pulse as variation of Zen Headbutt
:Fire Blast and Megahorn as variations of Blizzard
::With all these variations, they share identical effects, power and PP. The only difference between the suggested moves and the established moves is that accuracy is a tiny bit higher or lower. Also, some of the moves listed as variations don't qualify but are listed anyway. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 03:02, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

::Okay, I made a change that in hindsight I'm unsure of. In Gen 3, Leaf Blade fit the requirements to be considered a variation of Slash - 70 power, 15 pp, 100% accuracy, high chance for critical. But in Gen 4 it's power is 90, and it has its own variation now, Attack Order. So....what do we do? IMO, it should be considered variations of both, depending on the Generation. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 04:01, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

:::Yeah, no. The Barrage variations all have the same power and accuracy, Arm Thrust only has the same power. Fire Blast and Megahorn are different than Blizzard for a lot of things: Fire Blast has more accuracy, Megahorn has more accuracy, Megahorn has no secondary effect. Dark Pulse has more accuracy than Zen Headbutt. Bind, Wrap, and Fire Spin all have differnt accuracies. There's more to this page than just "Oh, it looks similar or has similar accuracy/PP/Power/type!" There's reasons that most of these aren't on there. The ones that don't seem like they fit are included because they either were the same, or are now the same. And Leaf Blade doesn't count, because it's already in a category that's more specific. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 20:15, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Why does Leaf Blade not count? It fit all the requirements before it's power was changed, if it doesn't count than neither does Zap Cannon as a variation of Dynamic Punch. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 20:26, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
:And like I said, there's already moves listed as variations that don't fit the requirements to count, or the requirements are flexible like "move does X or Y". [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 20:28, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

:I went through the list, here's some examples of the above:
::Blizzard's requirements are "5 or 10 PP", because otherwise Thunder wouldn't qualify. Also, Focus Blast doesn't qualify because it doesn't cause a status ailment
::Zap Cannon is listed as a variation of Dynamic Punch, but it has different power.
::Seed Flare is listed as a variation of Fire Blast, but it doesn't cause a status ailment.
::Surf is listed as a variation of Flamethrower but doesn't cause a status, and it says so right on the page
::Giga Drain's requirements again, "5 or 10 PP".
:I'm just saying, why are exceptions made for some moves to count them as variations, and not others? [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 20:47, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
:::PP is the only exception we make for differences. Zap Cannon and DynamicPunch are different than Leaf Blade. Did you even bother READING what I said about Leaf Blade other than that it doesn't count? It's in a category that's much more specific. It's with [[Template:Leaf Blade|Attack Order]]. Seed Flare and Fire Blast have the same power and accuracy, and both can have a secondary effect. As for Surf, I've always wondered that. I'll take that out of the template and this page. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 21:18, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
::::Yes I did read it, and I asked why Leaf Blade counts for Attack Order over Slash, when at times it has fulfilled the requirements to be a variation of both. And in that case, I'll assume Focus Blast gets the same exception as Seed Flare does. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 21:20, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
:::::Moves can't be in more than one category, which is why Leaf Blade is with Attack Order, since they match exactly except for type. And you're still missing what I've been saying. If they have different accuracies, they don't match. Focus Blast has 70%, and Seed Flare has 85%. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 21:29, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

I am paying attention to what you're saying. Now pay attention to what I'm saying. Focus Blast does not cause a status ailment as the other variations do, and Seed Flare doesn't either. Zap Cannon and Focus Blast have different powers. So why are they listed? And again, ''Leaf Blade can count as a variation of both Slash and Attack Order'', so why do we count one over the other? Why are some exceptions made and not others? [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 21:34, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
:No, I don't think you are. Focus Blast has a ''secondary effect'' like the others do, it's not limited to status or stat changes. As for Zap Cannon and Focus Blast, I just realized that yeah, it shouldn't be there. I'll change that too. If we put Leaf Blade in the Slash variations, then there wouldn't be one for Attack Order. And yeah, Leaf Blade ''used'' to be in both categories. It's not anymore. It has more power than Slash. The only ones that I can find that have different powers as of Gen IV are the Petal Dance variations. I'll see what I can do about that too. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 21:57, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
::That would be nice. I'm not trying to cause trouble or anything, and I'm sorry for arguing with you. I'm just noticing a double-standard in regards to the variations of some moves and want them sorted out one way or the other. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 22:00, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
:::I don't mind. Arguments need to be more than just "I'm right, you're wrong!" and stupid things like that, and thankfully this wasn't one of those times. This article has also had some issues with getting things like that straight, so glad you said something or it would have stayed that way. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 22:04, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
::::No problem. I admit I'm biased though, when I think of move variations I'm not as tight in my requirements as this page. I still feel like Hydro Pump ought to be a variation of something, but it doesn't fit any profiles here. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 22:18, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

== Lock-On and Mind Reader ==

Why aren't they here? [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 03:43, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

== Swapping moves ==

Heart Swap (maybe), Power Swap, and Guard Swap. All Psychic-type, 10 PP, Status. What do you think? [[User:Ht14|'''''ht''''']][[User talk:Ht14|''14'']] 00:52, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
:Support. Don't forget {{m|Skill Swap}}! [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 02:06, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
::That's ability though... also, what you did is a redirect. Learn... [[User:Ht14|'''''ht''''']][[User talk:Ht14|''14'']] 02:20, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
:::Still a Psychic-type, 10 PP, Status. As for redirect, so? It's a talk page. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 02:25, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
::::Argh... no... may as well say EVERY single status move. It doesn't matter typing as long as it's related. As for redirect, this still applies... [[User:Ht14|'''''ht''''']][[User talk:Ht14|''14'']] 02:29, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
:::::No, not "every" status move. I see four moves with "Swap" in their names all of which involve switching some sort of statistic with the opponent. What's the problem? [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 03:03, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
::::::Never mind. We'll keep it as that then. [[User:Ht14|'''''ht''''']][[User talk:Ht14|''14'']] 03:08, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

So we're adding them? [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 03:16, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

== Screech Variations ==

Couldn't Cotton Spore be a Screech Variation? It's not a sound move, but it does lower one target's speed by two levels and has the same PP and Accuracy. [[User:Mr. Charlie|'''Mr. Charlie''']]([[User_Talk:Mr. Charlie|''TalkToMe'']]) 04:26, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

== {{m|Karate Chop}} and {{m|Poison Tail}} ==
25 PP, 50 power, 100 Accuracy, high critical-hit ratios. What do you think? Also, would this need a new template to stick on the bottom of the move pages? [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 05:46, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
:Creating and adding. Any other moves that could go on this template? '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 13:34, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
::I don't think so, I looked at the other Critical Hit moves, none fit the definition. {{m|Air Cutter}} is close but its not exact. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 15:05, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
:::Alright. Just wanted to make sure nothing needed to be added. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 21:16, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

== Counter Moves ==

Hey, i'm a fan of the counter moves and i've noticed something, why isn't Metal Burst counted as a variation? I've used Mirror Coat and Counter with Glaceon and Hitmonchan respectively and Metal Burst does the effects of '''both''' Mirror Coat and Counter. [[User:Geomexis|Geomexis]] 12:51, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
:Because they aren't very close. If the effect has something different (such as Metal Burst has both, while Mirror Coat and Counter only have one), it isn't a variation. [[User:Turtwig A|Turt]][[wig]] [[Turtwig (Pokémon)|A]] ([[User talk:Turtwig A|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|contribs]]) 13:00, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
::Counter specifically only repays physical damage double what was taken, and Mirror Coat specifically only repays special damage double what was taken. Metal Burst repays 1.5 damage, or what was taken plus half of that amount. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 19:02, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

== Kisses ==

{{m|Lovely Kiss}} and {{m|Sweet Kiss}}

Same accuracy, same PP. First cause sleep, second - confusion. Aren't move variations? --[[User:ЫъГЬ|ЫъГЬ]] 15:08, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

== Tackle and Peck together? ==

{{m|Tackle}} and {{m|Peck}}

The two moves are in a grouping together, but I believe they should not be. They share the Base Power of 35, but while Tackle is 95% accurate, and it mistakenly says Peck to be, Peck is 100% accurate. -- [[User:Mattman324]] 22:58:00, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

Peck and Tackle aren't variations. Especially in generation V, where Tackle received a BP of 50. Myself, I would put Peck with Vine Whip, because they both have 35 BP, 100% accuracy and no special effect. Their PP, however, differs significantly, but does that really matter? (see below) --[[User:Grrgrrgrr1000|Grrgrrgrr1000]] 15:47, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

== Signal Beam ==

I know it seems weird, but {{m|Signal Beam}} is kinda of a variation of the elemental punches... 75 power, 100 acc, 15 PP and 10% of causing status. It breaks the "tradition", so to speak, but it fits more than many of the other variations here. [[User:Mr. Charlie|'''Mr. Charlie''']]([[User_Talk:Mr. Charlie|''TalkToMe'']]) 23:38, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

==This page needs COLOR!==
Seriously, it looks really dull, which is especially bad seeing as it's pretty much all tables. One of the coding wizards here should try to make a template that incorporates colors for the type of each variation and whether they are physical, special, or a status move. For status moves, color them differently based on which stat they change or status effect they inflict—whatever it takes to make this dull-looking article into an attractive resource. --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] 16:46, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
:I was just thinking of that myself, then I thought something like this would be perfect. But, you know, with colors for generations and stuff. I'm not a coding guy, I just throw the ideas. I don't mind working on the entire page, if needed, but I really don't know how. [[User:Mr. Charlie|'''Mr. Charlie''']]([[User_Talk:Mr. Charlie|''TalkToMe'']]) 12:00, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
{| align="center" style="background: #ddf; -moz-border-radius: 1em; border: 5px solid #ccf;"
|-
|
{| border=1 width="100%" align="center" class="sortable" style="background: #FFFFFF; border:1px solid #ddf; border-collapse:collapse;"
|- style="background: #ddf;"
! {{color2|000000|Move}}
! {{color2|000000|Elemental types|Type}}
! {{color2|000000|Damage category|Cat.}}
! {{color2|000000|Generation|Gen}}
{{tutormv|U-turn|Bug|cat=Physical|IV}}
{{tutormv|Volt Change|Electric|cat=Special|V}}
|}
|}
That looks good. You can probably lose the class="sortable" since the tables are all small. And make sure you use the region colors for the generation. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 10:04, 8 October 2010 (UTC)
:Yeah... The "how" with the generation/region colors is my issue here. Could you, or anyone, show me how to do it? Really not my area of expertise. [[User:Mr. Charlie|'''Mr. Charlie''']]([[User_Talk:Mr. Charlie|''TalkToMe'']]) 21:58, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
::How's this Edit: link removed for a quick mock-up? [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] [[User talk:Werdnae|(talk)]] 04:40, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
:::I likey. Let's use it. --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] 11:20, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
::::I like the idea, but don't forget that it will take longer to load this page.--[[User:Grrgrrgrr1000|Grrgrrgrr1000]] 15:36, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

== PP ==

In the article it says that moves need to have the same PP to be variations, but throughout the article it lists moves of differing PP as variations. Should they be removed? [[User:Pikiwyn|'''''Pikiwyn''''']] [[User talk:Pikiwyn|<tt>'''''talk'''''</tt>]] 17:46, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I would think so. You can't have the article contradict itself, can you? <code>;)</code> [[User:The Exterminator|The Exterminator]] 17:53, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
:I agree, for my edit and talk page reasons. It's [[User:Turtwig A|Turtwig A]]! [[User talk:Turtwig A|My talk]] or [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|wiki edits]] 00:52, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
::An article indeed shouldn't contradict itself. That's why the definition itself needs to be altered. --[[User:Grrgrrgrr1000|Grrgrrgrr1000]] 16:27, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

== Definition ==

The definition isn't specific enough. "Move variations are moves that are identical to each other in terms of damage, PP, and accuracy, but have different elemental types, damage categories, or secondary effects." The definition works for damaging moves but according to it almost all status moves that have the same PP are variations of each other. So I'm thinking maybe the article needs a different definition for status moves? [[User:Pikiwyn|'''''Pikiwyn''''']] [[User talk:Pikiwyn|<tt>'''''talk'''''</tt>]] 17:33, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
:How about something like, Status move variations are moves that raise or decrease the same number of stats by the same number of levels. It makes more sense because that way moves like Iron Defense will be a variant of Acid Armor, instead of the current description which makes Baton Pass a variant of Acid Armor. [[User:Pikiwyn|'''''Pikiwyn''''']] [[User talk:Pikiwyn|<tt>'''''talk'''''</tt>]] 13:37, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
::This is what the definition should be: "Move varations are moves that are identical in terms of dammage and accuracy, and have similar secondary effects." --[[User:Grrgrrgrr1000|Grrgrrgrr1000]] 16:33, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

== Thrash, Petal Dance, and Outrage ==

Here's my question. Thrash and Petal Dance are grouped together, but Outrage is not included only because is has 15 PP instead of 10. This difference seems minor to me, and so I think Outrage should be insluded in this group, with a note on it. If this doesn't work, then it doesn't work, but I know for a fact that most people focos on the actual move and its effects, not the PP it has. There are even people in this talk (although from 2 years ago lol) that group them together, and I know that most people think they are the same move with different types, especially now that they have the same power in Gen V. --[[User:Jdthebud|Jdthebud]] 23:11, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
:I know that we don't want the article to contradict itself in this regard, but I think that these three moves are so similar that this could be the exception to the rule. --[[User:Jdthebud|Jdthebud]] 23:23, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
::Outrage should be included. Reason: see below.--[[User:Grrgrrgrr1000|Grrgrrgrr1000]] 15:44, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

== PP shouldn't be taken into account ==

Taking the PP into account makes the list messier and more incomplete. They are also not the most important aspect anyway ingame: it doesn't really matter if a move has 35 PP or 40 PP. Seperating Night Slash from Slash, for example, causes an unnecesary amount of slots.--[[User:Grrgrrgrr1000|Grrgrrgrr1000]] 15:44, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:I agree 100%. PP is such a minor detail, it shouldn't even matter. The important thing is base power, similar or identical side effects, and accuracy. Any move that only serves to boost a stat by two stages is a variation of Acid Armor. Well, I'm not entirely sure on Body Purge, given its other effect of halving the user's weight, but still. My point is, PP shouldn't be taken into account. - ''unsigned comment from [[User:Missingno. Master|Missingno. Master]] ([[User talk:Missingno. Master|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Missingno._Master|contribs]])'' 16:35, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
::I agree too. IMO, the amount of PP is more minor than {{tt|Damage Category|although it shouldn't be included}}.----'''''無限の知性''''' ◎ [[User:Dennou Zenshi|ＤＥＮＮＯＵ]]'''[[Special:Random|◆]]'''[[User talk:Dennou Zenshi|ＺＥＮＳＨＩ]] 16:44, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:::I also agree, it doesn't make sense that something like acid armor isn't a variant of iron defense. [[User:Pikiwyn|'''''Pikiwyn''''']] [[User talk:Pikiwyn|<tt>'''''talk'''''</tt>]] 17:32, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
::::OK, so if the majority think that PP shouldn't count, we can put it back how it was. I changed it because it seemed that people wanted PP to count. I think it should be considered at least under some circumstances. I will stop changing the templates for move variations until the issue is resolved.
::::Also, it did not create an excessive amount of categories—several were deleted and several were made, balancing out. And PP is much more influential the damage categories. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 08:12, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Ok, it's maybe better to wait until there aren't any issues about that anymore. You can always watch the version regardless of PP (where I was responsible for) at this URL: http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Move_variations&oldid=1253819--[[User:Grrgrrgrr1000|Grrgrrgrr1000]] 19:38, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::After discussing it with a couple of other admins, we decided that the PP does not have to be the same, but it should be similar. i.e. it should differ by five or less. More than that is an indication that the moves aren't especially similar. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] [[User talk:Werdnae|(talk)]] 20:38, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

==Different catagories==

I have seperated the status moves from the other moves. The sharply-stat raising moves (besides those of 15PP) are now next to each other.--[[User:Grrgrrgrr1000|Grrgrrgrr1000]] 16:56, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Haze & Mist ==

Can someone add Haze & Mist to the list (they are counterparts)?[[User:Vuvuzela2010|Vuvuzela2010]] 08:32, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

== Shadow Ball/Crunch as variations of Waterfall ==

I added them to variations of waterfall and changed the definition of waterfall so that they both fit. But since all previous variations caused flinching, and the two I added lower defense /sp. def should they be considered two different moveset variations? Also, the templates under shadow ball and crunch I left as they are because I have no idea how to do it, or if even they are in fact variations of waterfall. Thanks...

== Extreme Speed and Sucker Punch ==
{{m|Extremespeed}} now has +2 priority instead of +1. So, isn't it not a variation of {{m|Sucker Punch}} anymore? Also Sucker Punch work in different way, so this moves seems even less likely to be variations. --[[User:ЫъГЬ|ЫъГЬ]] 09:39, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

== Elemental Surfs? ==

Discharge is like surf, affecting all opponents. Also a poison move.

Also Poison Fang should be with the fangs.[[User:Tesseract|Tesseract]] 08:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
:Discharge does not have the same base power as Surf. Therefore, not a variant. Poison Fang also does not have the same base power as the other fangs. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 08:58, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Order of Oath Moves Doesn't Matter ==

Hasn't it been confirmed that the Oath moves can be used in any order to produce the same effect? The page should be updated accordingly. [[User:Grei|Grei]] 18:01, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Move variations/Archive 1

2010-12-18T18:01:16Z

Grei: /* Order of Oath Moves not necessary */ new section

== Template? ==

This page was an excellent idea, but I wonder if there's a way to indicate in each move's article when it belongs to one of these "archetypes". --[[User:Johans|Johans Nidorino]] 21:10, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

I suggested it but it was forgotten later on; and unfortunately, I don't know how to make templates. -([[User:Llxwarbirdxll|Llxwarbirdxll]] 02:35, 29 May 2007 (UTC))
:Template namespace. I'll whip one up. --'''[[User:TTEchidna|T]][[User talk:TTEchidna|T]][[wp:Echidna|Echidna]]''' 02:53, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
::Maybe this is not the right place to suggest, but take a look at the template (Flamethrower as an example):
{| align="center" class="toccolours" cellspacing="2" style="border: 3px solid #88a; border-radius:20px; -moz-border-radius:20px;"
|-
! colspan="2" style="background: #ccf; border: border-radius:20px; -moz-border-radius:20px; padding: 2px 15px;" | [[Move variations|Variations]] of the move {{m|Flamethrower}}
|- style="font-size:90%;" align="center"
| {{ic|Special}}
| {{mcolor|Flamethrower|{{fire color}}}} | {{mcolor|Ice Beam|{{ice color dark}}}} | {{mcolor|Slime Wave|{{poison color dark}}}} | {{mcolor|Thunderbolt|{{electric color dark}}}}
|}
<noinclude>[[Category:Move navigation templates]]</noinclude>
::Flamethrower mentioned twice, while there is no actual link to ''Variations of Flamethrower''. I believe it will be better this way:

{| align="center" class="toccolours" cellspacing="2" style="border: 3px solid #88a; border-radius:20px; -moz-border-radius:20px;"
|-
! colspan="2" style="background: #ccf; border: border-radius:20px; -moz-border-radius:20px; padding: 2px 15px;" | [[Move_variations#Variations_of_Flamethrower|Variations of the move Flamethrower]]:
|- style="font-size:90%;" align="center"
| {{ic|Special}}
| {{mcolor|Flamethrower|{{fire color}}}} | {{mcolor|Ice Beam|{{ice color dark}}}} | {{mcolor|Slime Wave|{{poison color dark}}}} | {{mcolor|Thunderbolt|{{electric color dark}}}}
|}
<noinclude>[[Category:Move navigation templates]]</noinclude>
::--[[User:ЫъГЬ|ЫъГЬ]] 11:09, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
:::I agree. It does make more sense that way. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 11:12, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== New Variation ==

There neeeds to be a Move Variation for the Following moves:
* {{m|Psybeam}}
* {{m|Bubblebeam}}
* {{m|Aurora Beam}}
* {{m|Sludge}}
* {{m|Spark}}
I have checked them all out and they each have:
* Power: 65
* Accuracy: 100%
* PP: 20
P.S. I don't know how to do this myself so really I'm asking for somebody to do this for me!
[[User:Tesh|Tesh]] 16:53, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Actually, I'm not sure if this should be counted as they each have a different added effect, either a [[status ailment]] or a [[stat]] change. Somebody gie me their:view...[[User:Tesh|Tesh]] 20:32, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
:Maybe keep the status-changing ones together, and keep the stat-changing ones together, but keep them separate. That means {{m|Psybeam}}, {{m|Sludge}}, and {{m|Spark}} go together, and {{m|BubbleBeam}} and {{m|Aurora Beam}} go together.
:And don't forget to use the {{template|m}} template for moves. '''[[User:TTEchidna|T]][[User talk:TTEchidna|T]][[wp:Echidna|Echidna]]''' 00:22, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
By the way, I think you've got the wrong idea. I'm not sure on how to create the move variation. I only realised they were similar... [[User:Tesh|Tesh]] 15:34, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

== "Or" ==

Is "10 or 15" valid [[Move variations#Variations of Shadow Ball|here]]? I'd say the use of every possible move variation no matter the amount of PPs it has would require a redefinition. BTW, {{m|Ice Beam}} and {{m|Thunder}} don't belong in the tables they've been introduced in if following the original criterion. --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 05:04, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, I put those there. I'll have them removed. [[User:Llxwarbirdxll|Llxwarbirdxll]] 08:20, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

:LOL, now somebody else did the same with variations of Slash, Waterfall, and Shadow Ball :P --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 16:08, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

People are no longer respecting the "PPs" part of the definition. With "Variations of Flamethrower" the article mentions neither 15 nor 10 now. If this is going to continue, maybe Bulbapedia's definition on "move variations" should no longer include PPs, which seems to be the least important of the three columns. --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 18:35, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

== Seismic Toss and Night Shade? ==

Those belong on the list, right?
[[User:Angerman|Angerman]] 20:10, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
:Doesn't {{m|Night Shade}} do somewhere from 1 to 1.5x the level? I know {{m|Seismic Toss}} does the level. '''[[User:TTEchidna|T]][[User talk:TTEchidna|T]][[wp:Echidna|Echidna]]''' 23:07, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
::No, Psywave does from 0.5 to 1.5x the level. But Night Shade always does damage equal to the level. --[[User:Shiny Noctowl|Shiny Noctowl]] 23:11, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
:Still, they don't have the same amout of default total PPs. --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 01:53, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
::They're stretching it nowadays though. Hmm...{{m|Zap Cannon}} and {{m|Dynamicpunch}}... [[User:Ht14|'''''ht''''']][[User talk:Ht14|''14'']] 22:11, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
Well, I'm sure {{m|Stone Edge}} and {{m|Cross Chop}} are variations. [[User:Angerman|Angerman]] 07:00, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
:Definitely ^_^ --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 16:46, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

==Stub?==
Is it Still a stub?--[[User:Torchic-ken|Torchic-ken]] 2:58, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
:Yeah, there's a few missing bits. [[User:Angerman|Angerman]] 00:10, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

== Mean Look/Block/Spider Web? ==

I noticed there isn't a section for these three moves, and while Block and Mean Look fit a "5 PP, Prevents foe from escaping" description, Spider Web only has one thing setting them apart and that's the PP issue. Should I add it anyway? [[User:TinaTheKirlia|TinaTheKirlia]] 01:47, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
:Add only Mean Look and Block. That's what has been done in these cases to agree with the current definition of "move archetypes". --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 08:01, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

== Counter and Mirror Coat? ==

I'm really surprised no one did this - they both have 10PP, varying power, 100% accuracy and they both go last and counter the foe's attack at two times the power. I was trying to find a good way to summarize it though - how's this? "Goes last and counters the move used by the foe at twice the power". [[User:TinaTheKirlia|Tina]][[User talk:TinaTheKirlia|The]][[Kirlia (Pokémon)|Kirlia]] ♥ [[Image:281MS.gif]] 21:23, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
:That works. '''[[User:TTEchidna|TTE]][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 23:41, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

== Softboiled and Milk Drink ==

Even though they're listed under variations of Recover.. they both can do something Recover can not -- heal other Pokémon's HP outside of battle. I think this deserves a mention. :P [[User:Tina|Tina]] [[Special:Contributions/Tina|δ]][[User talk:Tina|♫]] 18:58, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

== Contests? ==

I think it would be incredibly useful to have a version of this page for contests, since many of the moves do the exact same things.
Thoughts...? [[User:Maki|Maki]] 13:47, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
:I agree. However it'd have to be set up differently. It'd be like... effect, cute moves, beauty moves, smart moves, tough moves, cool moves. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]][[Image:Ani155MS.gif|Fire echy]]''' 20:49, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

== Blizzard ==

Are Magma Storm and Focus Blast ''really'' variations of Blizzard? Neither inflict a status ailment and Magma Storm sounds more like a multi-turn move. The only similarities seem to be 120 power

Also, I think Thunder should be added as a variation. It has 10 PP, not 5, but it causes a status ailment, has 120 power and 70 accuracy. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 20:28, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
:Thunder and Blizzard also have their accuracy at 100% when used during a specific weather condition. Magma Storm seems most like Outrage, though that goes 2-3 turns, and Focus Blast is just... its own thing. Not ''every'' move has a counterpart, that's what people need to remember. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]][[Image:Ani155MS.gif|Fire echy]]''' 20:38, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
::That's what I mean, a lot of the moves I mentioned, as well as Hydro Pump, Seed Flare and Fire Blast are all ''similar'', but variations of each other? I'd say they're similar moves, but not direct variations. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 20:40, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
:::Yes. Variations: Do the same thing. Similarity: have the same PP, power, or accuracy but don't do the same thing. Outrage and Thrash are variations, despite Outrage now being 120 power. Focus Blast and Blizzard are not because all they share is accuracy and power. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]][[Image:Ani155MS.gif|Fire echy]]''' 21:21, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
::::So, should we move some of the moves I mentioned around? That's what I've been suggesting. I think Magma Storm should be grouped with Outrage and Thrash, and Blizzard, Thunder and Gunk Shot should be in a group. Maybe Seed Flare and Focus Blast too, their effects are identical except for accuracy. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 00:39, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

==Order==
Why aren't they in alphabetical order? {{u|MathijsP}}
:Beats me. Last time I organized them I put them in order by damage. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 01:59, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

==Dragon Claw, X-Scissor, Seed Bomb==

Aren't these all variations? They all do 80 damage, have 15 PP, and no added effect. Can I add them? --[[User:Dark Sage|Dark Sage]] 18:25, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
:You forget to mention the accuracy, but it happens that it's the same! So yeah, they're move variations. --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 18:20, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
Great. I guess I'll add them now. --[[User:Dark Sage|Dark Sage]] 18:25, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Actually, I don't think I know how to do the template. Can someone else do that? --[[User:Dark Sage|Dark Sage]] 18:27, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Nevermind, I got them. :) --[[User:Dark Sage|Dark Sage]] 21:05, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

==Ice Beam?==

Ice Beam has only 10 PP, yet it's claimed to be a variation of Flamethrower and Thunderbolt, which have 15 PP. Can I remove that? --[[User:Dark Sage|Dark Sage]] 21:08, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
:Ice Beam is the most useful of all three, but is still the same. Same power, accuracy and rate to inflict a status problem. Part of Ice Beam may be the fact frozen Pokémon are helpless. [[User:Gywall|'''Gywall''']]([[User_talk:Gywall|Talk]]) 21:15, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
::Ice Beam is one of the more visible move variations in normal gameplay. --[[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] |[[User talk:Fabu-Vinny|Talk Page]]| 21:21, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Ah. I see. OK. --[[User:Dark Sage|Dark Sage]] 00:46, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

== Air Slash? ==

I wonder if, shouldnt Air Slash be in the "variations of Slash" since it IS a Slash move after all? o: what do you people think? I havn't really looked up the PP, accuracy and power, but its very similar to Night Slash and Slash. :c--[[User:Angela-Samshi|Angela-Samshi]] 17:50, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

:Slash and Night Slash have high critical-hit ratios, Air Slash may cause the opponent to flinch. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|'''$aturn''']][[User:SaturnYoshi|'''¥oshi''']] [[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]] 17:54, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Ahh, ok thanks. --[[User:Angela-Samshi|Angela-Samshi]] 18:09, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

== Pound <-> Gust? ==

Gust isn't a variation of Pound, is it? - [[User:FireHazard|Hazardous FIRE!]] 00:08, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
:Yes it is. 35 PP, 40 power, 100% accuracy–yup, variation. --[[user:Baby G|Baby G]] ([[user talk:Baby G|talk to me]]) ([[Special:Contributions/Baby_G|see my edits]]) 23:10, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

== Arm Thrust ==

I read that the accuracy of Arm Thrust was 100 percent, but it was under the variations of Barrage, saying that its accuracy was 85 percent. Is its accuracy 85 or 100, cuz I don't wanna do an edit with wrong info.---[[User:Hitmonchan90|Hitmonchan90]] 23:07, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

==Bulk Up and Calm Mind?==

They both have 20 PP, and raise Attack and Defense/Special Attack and Special Defense one stage, respectively. Variants? All signs point to yes. [[User:Master Lucario|Master Lucario]]
:Yep, variations. Added. --[[user:Baby G|Baby G]] ([[user talk:Baby G|talk to me]]) ([[Special:Contributions/Baby_G|see my edits]]) 21:30, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

== Reorganised ==

Since the moves were looking kinda messy, since the order was somewhat random, I went and moved the sections around to order it A-Z. Exceptions being Elemental X and the OHKO moves as they are listed differently. [[User:Gywall|'''Gywall''']]([[User_talk:Gywall|Talk]]) 17:27, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

I believe the order was by Base Power of the attacks. [[User:The Placebo Effect|The Placebo Effect]] 13:29, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

== Sections for both {{m|Tail Glow}} AND {{m|Agility}}? ==

I've noticed that there are two sections that both share similar attributes, both sections detail moves that have 20 PP but increase a stat two stages, however, One details just Special attack raisers while the other details the other ones.

Should there be two or should they be put together? [[User:PDL|PDL]] 00:22, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
:I was thinking the same thing, but then I found out that all the listed variations of Agility (including Agility itself) have ''30'' PP, and that Tail Glow and {{m|Nasty Plot}} have ''20'' PP. --[[user:chocolate|Cho]][[user talk:chocolate|col]][[special:contributions/chocolate|ate]] 00:23, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
:Agility has 30 PP.Otherwise, I would say yes--[[User:DCM|DCM]][[User talk:DCM|((Talk]][[Special:Contributions/DCM|Contributions))]]

I just noticed that now as well ^^; [[User:PDL|PDL]] 00:35, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

== Crabhammer ==

Both Crabhammer and Blaze Kick ''used'' to be signature moves. Should this be noted? --[[User:Raijinili|Raijinili]] 21:43, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
:I don't think it should. <big>[[user:chocolate|Cho]][[user talk:chocolate|col]][[special:contributions/chocolate|ate]]</big> 21:47, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

== Lock-On/Mind Reader ==

How about them? [[User:Ht14|''ht'']][[User talk:Ht14|''14'']] 23:19, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
:I remember them having the exactly same effect, so if my memory serves me right, they could be added. UltimateSephiroth ([[User:UltimateSephiroth|user]] · [[User talk:UltimateSephiroth|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/UltimateSephiroth|contrib]]) 23:29, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
::How about {{m|Whirlwind}} and {{m|Roar}}? [[User:Ht14|''ht'']][[User talk:Ht14|''14'']] 04:05, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

== {{m|Spikes}} / {{m|Toxic Spikes}} ==

Should these be parterned up?--[[User:RexRacer|'''Rex]][[Quilava (Pokémon)|Racer''']] [[User talk:RexRacer|'''''-talk''''']] 16:26, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
:Don't forget about {{m|Stealth Rock}}, too. [[user:chocolate|Cho]][[user talk:chocolate|col]][[special:contributions/chocolate|ate]] 16:28, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

== This page needs work ==

First of all, should PP be accounted for or not? Right now, some do and some don't. I don't really care which one we go with, so long as it's consistent.

Second, effects are not being grouped together consistently either. Example: Spark has a 30% chance of inducing Paralyze. Psybeam has a 10% chance of inducing Confusion. 30 != 10. Another example: Flamethrower has a 10% chance of inducing Burn. Surf has 0% chance of inducing anything at all, and has a different target range on top of that. Also, the diffence between "Acid Armor variations" and "Amnesia variations"? Ignoring the PP difference (the Acid Armor variations already do this anyway), who really cares if they raise Special stats or not? You could just as easily group them by Defense or Attack stats. On the other hand, I say just go with "raises a stat by two stages" and leave it at that.

Third, I do not think "non-[http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/volatile volatile]" means what you think it means. Why not just put "non-damaging effect" or something else a bit more clear and grammatically correct? [[User:Dragoness|Dragoness]] 04:57, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

:I never thought PP should be accounted for. A lot of the moves might have the same PP but if all the important other stuff is the same, the moves are pretty much variations! [[User:Toastypk|'''''~Toastypk''''']] - [[User_Talk:Toastypk|'''Loom.''']] 05:06, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Thief and Covet will never be counted as variations if taking PP into account. --[[User:Kaoz|Kaoz]] 15:57, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
:And that's the sad thing, they're pretty much the same kind of item-stealing damaging move. PP is a moot point! [[User:Toastypk|'''''~Toastypk''''']] - [[User_Talk:Toastypk|'''Loom.''']] 00:22, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

::If there's only one thing different about a move variation, it can still be considered a variation. For example, {{m|Surf}} is one of the {{m|Flamethrower}} variations, because it has the same power, PP, and accuracy. The only thing different is the effect. [[User:Chocolate|Chocolate]] ([[User talk:Chocolate|Chat with Me]]) 00:44, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
:::Actually, you could argue that Surf is a variation of Earthquake, since they have the same range and the same effect (none). Surf has more PP and less power, but it also has two things different from Flamethrower: range and effect. See? You can't just go "Oh they're close ENOUGH", you have to pick your criteria and stick with it. Either effect counts or it doesn't count. Either range counts or it doesn't count. Either PP counts or it doesn't count. If you start flubbing things, that's only going to make things more complicated down the line. [[User:Dragoness|Dragoness]] 03:23, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

:::Earthquake has the anti-{{m|Dig}} effect. --[[User:Raijinili|Raijinili]] 02:55, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
::::Good point, that's another thing they have in common, since Surf can hit during Dive too. [[User:Dragoness|Dragoness]] 03:15, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
::::I don't think there needs to be a set of rigid rules for move variations. By definition, variation implies differing conditions, character, and degree. That said, I do think that a move variations should have identical or ''very'' similar effects. PP and base power are relatively unimportant to me, when two moves have unique identical effects. Consider Bind, Fire Spin, and Whirlpool: they are all multi-turn attacks that trap their foe. They work exactly the same, and have relatively unique effects (only a handful of moves work like this). However, Bulbapedia currently only considers Fire Spin and Whirlpool as "variations". — [[User:Laoris|Laoris]] ([[User_Talk:Laoris|Blah]]) 03:18, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
:::::I think that trapping should have its own page. It's not as if the creators sat around and thought, "Hey, wouldn't it be cool to have a clone of this move for that element?" I think the process was more like, "Hey, why not have this as a mechanic?" --[[User:Raijinili|Raijinili]] 05:12, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
:::::Minor problem with that though. Ember, Flamethrower and Fire Blast (and probably others but those are the big ones) all have a 10% chance of causing burn. Moreover, they're all Fire attacks. If we go solely by effect, then that makes them variations of each other. So then we have moves that are multiple variations in one. Is that really ok? I mean, I can see it going either way...

:::::One possibility is to split it into two things, where there are moves that are strictly exact copies of each other minus type and specific effect (not % chance of effect though, that has to say the same), and then other moves that just do the same thing but are not exact copies. Like, if I want to look for moves that cause Burn, there could be a category that I could go to and look there, and likewise for moves that cause trapping, or moves that hit everyone on the field. Does that sound reasonable? [[User:Dragoness|Dragoness]] 01:14, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

::::::I'm not talking about secondary effects like 10% of burn or confusion. I agree that there should be a [[list of moves that burn]] (not a category, unfortunately), but I don't think they should be considered variations. In my mind, examples of move variations are moves that have some unique game mechanic, such as {{m|Wrap|multi-turn}} {{m|Magma Storm|trapping}} {{m|Sand Tomb|moves}}, {{m|Fly|moves with}} {{m|Dig|an initial}} {{m|Shadow Force|invulnerable}} {{m|Dive|turn}}, {{m|Block|moves that}} {{m|Spider Web|prevent}} {{m|Mean Look|escape}}, or {{m|Protect|moves that can negate}} {{m|Detect|all negative effects}}—Moves that work so similarly that there are, for example, abilities that negate the set of them or moves that counter-act a set of them. These should be considered move variations. — [[User:Laoris|Laoris]] ([[User_Talk:Laoris|Blah]]) 01:33, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Starting tabs over.

I've always considered anything that does not cause damage on an otherwise damaging move to be a secondary effect so I think we are going to differ in thought there, unfortunately. Example: Razor Wind requires charging, has a high crit rate and deals damage, so the charging and high crit rate are both secondary effects. Screech causes only Defense down, so Defense down is the primary effect.

Taking each thing in turn, I don't think that just because Wrap and Magma Storm both cause multi-turn trapping is enough for them to be considered variations. They ought to have a page specifying this, but this does not make them variations, in the same way as Ember and Flamethrower. Ditto with with the semi-invulnerable moves. They are different enough (note which moves can hit which during the invulnerable turn, not to mention Power) to warrant an obviously acknowledged ''similarity'' but not actual variations.

As for your last two examples, those moves DO essentially do the exact same thing in every way, with the exception of PP, so I think, if we decide to exclude PP from the criteria (which I am fairly convinced we ought to do by now), then yes, I would consider those move variations.

(Somewhat off-topic, why not a category instead of a page? Then there would be links from the moves pages themselves, so they can actually be found... The Pokédex has tons of categories, I've noticed...) [[User:Dragoness|Dragoness]] 02:14, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
:Also, {{m|Mud-Slap}} and {{m|Sand-Attack}} are both Ground moves with a 100% chance of lowering Accuracy, and this can be prevented by abilities such as {{a|Keen Eye}}, but they're still clearly not variations of each other, right? (Asking because I consider Wrap and Bind and the like to be moves with 100% chance of causing trapping) [[User:Dragoness|Dragoness]] 02:24, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
::Why aren't Wrap and Magma Storm variations? They have the same primary effects (inflict damage over several turns at the end of each turn) and secondary effects (trap target during those turns). (Though there's no official source ordering those as primary and secondary; they could just as easily be reversed.) I realize that Ember and Flamethrower also have the same primary and secondary effects, but another issue I pointed out above is ''unique game-mechanics''. There are a hundred moves that have the same primary effect as Ember and Flamethrower (inflict damage) and very similar secondary effects (10% of a major status ailment). However, there are only 5 moves that work like Wrap and Magma Storm. I think that makes them remarkable enough to be noted as move variations.
::Since the definition of variation means details can vary. That means we could consider numerous damaging moves to be variations of each other. But I don't think it's notable if they don't have something that sets them apart from other moves.
::(As for the category thing, I don't know for sure, but the tons of categories issue might be the reason they didn't want even more categories for each detail.) — [[User:Laoris|Laoris]] ([[User_Talk:Laoris|Blah]]) 02:39, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
:::It seems to me like what you want would be better expressed in a different page, like "Moves that cause the same unique effects" ...Okay, "same unique" is a bit oxymoronic, but you know what I mean. ^^;

:::The reason I chose Mud-Slap and Sand-Attack as examples is because they ARE unique, in that Accuracy is not a standard stat, and there are only 5 moves that lower accuracy (and none that raise it, I think): Mud-Slap, Sand-Attack, {{m|Flash}}, {{m|Mirror Shot}}, and {{m|Muddy Water}}, but these are clearly not similar in any other way but that. (Asides from Flash and Sand-Attack, I would consider those variations of the other, with Gen IV's de-nerfing of Flash.) This page seems to have been created to illustrate which moves have only minor differences, with Power, Accuracy and % effect and PP cited specifically as things that must be the same. No matter which way you cut it, the only thing Wrap and Magma Storm have in common is their secondary multi-turn trapping effect, and I consider multi-turn trapping damage to be a single secondary effect (You are never going to have one of those moves inflict one without the other). Primary effect defaults to damage except for moves that do not ever deal damage. The game even categorizes them as Physical [[Image:PhysicalIC.gif]] and Special [[Image:SpecialIC.gif]], not Status [[Image:StatusIC.gif]]. You can cite their uniqueness, but there are only so many moves that do unique, specific things, like Burn, or charge, or high-crit, but then you'll end up with almost every move out there having at least one if not multiple variations. If you want to get really unique, {{m|Flame Wheel}} and {{m|Sacred Fire}} are the only moves that can thaw out their user. That makes them variations according to your definition, but they have nothing in common according to the definition already defined on this page. I think this all does deserve to be noted somewhere, but I don't think this is the right place, is what I'm trying to say. ._.; [[User:Dragoness|Dragoness]] 04:06, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

::::I am aware that calling certain moves variations of each other would go against the narrow definition of move variations already defined by this page, but I think it is incorrect. I give up though, so I'll just continue ignoring it. — [[User:Laoris|Laoris]] ([[User_Talk:Laoris|Blah]]) 04:40, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

== Protect? Detect? ==

Aren't they variations of each other? --[[User:Phred|Phred]] 08:18, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
:Someone should go down this whole talk page and just do it. --[[User:Raijinili|Raijinili]] 08:30, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
::Phred: They have the same effect, it looks like, but Detect has half of Protect's PP, so no, not according to our definition.
::Raijinili: What? --[[User:Martonimos|((Marton]] [[User talk:Martonimos|imos))]] 08:30, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
:::Although there are moves that say "10 or 15 pp" or something similar, so maybe... --[[User:Martonimos|((Marton]] [[User talk:Martonimos|imos))]] 08:33, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
::::I think a difference in PP is a poor reason not to consider two moves as variations of each other. They obviously have the same effect. — [[User:Laoris|Laoris]] ([[User_Talk:Laoris|Blah]]) 08:40, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
:::::To the point where the two moves share the same success rate. --[[User:Phred|Phred]] 23:47, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

== Rock Slide and Air Slash ==
Both have 75 BP, 30% Chance of Flinch, and 95(?) Accuraccy. I think that makes them variations on the same move.--[[User:Purimpopoie|Purimpopoie]] 16:01, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

== Thief and Covet ==

The only item-stealing damaging moves, with same power and accuracy, are yet to be covered here. I dropped a line earlier in hopes of the issue being picked up by more people, but it failed, my mistake. So I chose to be more direct in approach and now I ask, if other moves have ignored PP in favor of more relevant traits, shouldn't these two be listed as variations? I think there even used to be a template for both, but it got deleted. --[[User:Kaoz|Kaoz]] 16:13, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

== {{m|Glare}} and {{m|Stun Spore}} ==

Same effect, PP, accuracy and power (or the lack of it), varies on type only . These are variations, so I'll add them, but I don't know how to put the template on the move pages... {{u|Mr. Charlie}} 22:57, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

== Strength as first in a variation ==

I've realized that Dragon Claw and the others are exactly like Strength but in type, so i've changed that, and made Strength as the first in the variation. This is my first edit, i hope it's all-right, I don't know if the move wasn't in there because it is a HM.

--[[User:PokeTech|PokeTech]] 12:48, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
:Kudos for effort there. But yeah, we don't include HMs so it'll have to go back to how it was. Sorry. [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|R.A. Hunter B.]] 21:31, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
::''we don't include HMs'' Doesn't explain Waterfall, and no, "it wasn't a HM originally" doesn't seem like a good rationale to me. [[User:Frugali|Frugali]] 12:09, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
:::Well, I hadn't realized this at the time, but the variations of Waterfall have the flinching effect. And I see what you mean when you say that about not explaining it well. [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|R.A. Hunter B.]] 22:08, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

== Weather Moves ==

Aren't the weather moves variations of each other? Or at least Rain Dance/Sunny Day and Snadstorm/Hail? I mean, they all change to a weather for five turns. [[User:Mr. Charlie|Mr. ]][[User talk:Mr. Charlie|Charlie]] 18:25, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
:I guess you could consider them variations of each other, but I've never really thought of them like that. I'd wait to add it untill more people agree or disagree. [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|R.A. Hunter B.]] 18:51, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
::They all change weather but their effects are different. Well, indirectly. — [[User:Tenno Seremel|Tenno Seremel]] 21:40, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
:::That's the thing... I don't know if it should be added or not... they're like the elemental punches (damage + chance of status problem), because they change the weather condition during the battle and have a side effect... [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|R.A. Hunter B.]] 22:07, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
::::Go for it. Sunny Day, Rain Dance and Hail are all exactly the same (IIRC) and Sandstorm has 5 more PP. I'm not sure whether that matters, coz you guys had a huge argument about that... — [[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|THE TROM]] — 23:26, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
:::::Should I add it as "Variations of *insert weather move*" or as "Weather Conditions/Moves"? I'll add it anyways, but should it need to have the title changed I'll do that. [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|R.A. Hunter B.]] 16:04, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
::::Or should it be, like the original question, Rain Dance/Sunny Day and Sandstorm/Hail? Eh, I'll put it all together for now and it can be changed later.... [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|R.A. Hunter B.]] 16:09, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

== Powders and Flattering ==

How come that {{m|PoisonPowder}}, {{m|Sleep Powder}} and {{m|Stun Spore}} aren't move variations? They have the same accuracy, animation, the same Contest appeal and Pokémon learn them around the same time, it kind of makes sense that they are. 
Also {{m|Flatter}} and {{m|Swagger}} are variations as they both confuse but Swagger ups attack and Flatter ups Special Attack, I'm not sure how to add them lmao, I thought I should say it here first though ;) --[[User:Ripp145|Ripp145]] 12:23, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
:Apparently, Flatter only raises Special Attack one stage, while Swagger raises Attack by two stages. Also, both have different accuracy. Too many differences to qualify. --[[User:Kaoz|Kaoz]] 02:33, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
::The powders aren't considered variations yet?! ''Alpha'' [[User:CuboneKing|Cu]][[User talk:CuboneKing|bo]][[Special:Contributions/CuboneKing|ne]][[Cubone (Pokémon)|King]] 02:36, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
:::If we're discussing variations to add, I have a couple suggestions.
:Arm Thrust as a variation of Barrage
:Bind and Wrap as variations of Fire Spin
:Dark Pulse as variation of Zen Headbutt
:Fire Blast and Megahorn as variations of Blizzard
::With all these variations, they share identical effects, power and PP. The only difference between the suggested moves and the established moves is that accuracy is a tiny bit higher or lower. Also, some of the moves listed as variations don't qualify but are listed anyway. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 03:02, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

::Okay, I made a change that in hindsight I'm unsure of. In Gen 3, Leaf Blade fit the requirements to be considered a variation of Slash - 70 power, 15 pp, 100% accuracy, high chance for critical. But in Gen 4 it's power is 90, and it has its own variation now, Attack Order. So....what do we do? IMO, it should be considered variations of both, depending on the Generation. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 04:01, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

:::Yeah, no. The Barrage variations all have the same power and accuracy, Arm Thrust only has the same power. Fire Blast and Megahorn are different than Blizzard for a lot of things: Fire Blast has more accuracy, Megahorn has more accuracy, Megahorn has no secondary effect. Dark Pulse has more accuracy than Zen Headbutt. Bind, Wrap, and Fire Spin all have differnt accuracies. There's more to this page than just "Oh, it looks similar or has similar accuracy/PP/Power/type!" There's reasons that most of these aren't on there. The ones that don't seem like they fit are included because they either were the same, or are now the same. And Leaf Blade doesn't count, because it's already in a category that's more specific. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 20:15, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Why does Leaf Blade not count? It fit all the requirements before it's power was changed, if it doesn't count than neither does Zap Cannon as a variation of Dynamic Punch. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 20:26, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
:And like I said, there's already moves listed as variations that don't fit the requirements to count, or the requirements are flexible like "move does X or Y". [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 20:28, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

:I went through the list, here's some examples of the above:
::Blizzard's requirements are "5 or 10 PP", because otherwise Thunder wouldn't qualify. Also, Focus Blast doesn't qualify because it doesn't cause a status ailment
::Zap Cannon is listed as a variation of Dynamic Punch, but it has different power.
::Seed Flare is listed as a variation of Fire Blast, but it doesn't cause a status ailment.
::Surf is listed as a variation of Flamethrower but doesn't cause a status, and it says so right on the page
::Giga Drain's requirements again, "5 or 10 PP".
:I'm just saying, why are exceptions made for some moves to count them as variations, and not others? [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 20:47, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
:::PP is the only exception we make for differences. Zap Cannon and DynamicPunch are different than Leaf Blade. Did you even bother READING what I said about Leaf Blade other than that it doesn't count? It's in a category that's much more specific. It's with [[Template:Leaf Blade|Attack Order]]. Seed Flare and Fire Blast have the same power and accuracy, and both can have a secondary effect. As for Surf, I've always wondered that. I'll take that out of the template and this page. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 21:18, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
::::Yes I did read it, and I asked why Leaf Blade counts for Attack Order over Slash, when at times it has fulfilled the requirements to be a variation of both. And in that case, I'll assume Focus Blast gets the same exception as Seed Flare does. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 21:20, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
:::::Moves can't be in more than one category, which is why Leaf Blade is with Attack Order, since they match exactly except for type. And you're still missing what I've been saying. If they have different accuracies, they don't match. Focus Blast has 70%, and Seed Flare has 85%. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 21:29, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

I am paying attention to what you're saying. Now pay attention to what I'm saying. Focus Blast does not cause a status ailment as the other variations do, and Seed Flare doesn't either. Zap Cannon and Focus Blast have different powers. So why are they listed? And again, ''Leaf Blade can count as a variation of both Slash and Attack Order'', so why do we count one over the other? Why are some exceptions made and not others? [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 21:34, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
:No, I don't think you are. Focus Blast has a ''secondary effect'' like the others do, it's not limited to status or stat changes. As for Zap Cannon and Focus Blast, I just realized that yeah, it shouldn't be there. I'll change that too. If we put Leaf Blade in the Slash variations, then there wouldn't be one for Attack Order. And yeah, Leaf Blade ''used'' to be in both categories. It's not anymore. It has more power than Slash. The only ones that I can find that have different powers as of Gen IV are the Petal Dance variations. I'll see what I can do about that too. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 21:57, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
::That would be nice. I'm not trying to cause trouble or anything, and I'm sorry for arguing with you. I'm just noticing a double-standard in regards to the variations of some moves and want them sorted out one way or the other. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 22:00, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
:::I don't mind. Arguments need to be more than just "I'm right, you're wrong!" and stupid things like that, and thankfully this wasn't one of those times. This article has also had some issues with getting things like that straight, so glad you said something or it would have stayed that way. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 22:04, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
::::No problem. I admit I'm biased though, when I think of move variations I'm not as tight in my requirements as this page. I still feel like Hydro Pump ought to be a variation of something, but it doesn't fit any profiles here. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 22:18, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

== Lock-On and Mind Reader ==

Why aren't they here? [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 03:43, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

== Swapping moves ==

Heart Swap (maybe), Power Swap, and Guard Swap. All Psychic-type, 10 PP, Status. What do you think? [[User:Ht14|'''''ht''''']][[User talk:Ht14|''14'']] 00:52, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
:Support. Don't forget {{m|Skill Swap}}! [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 02:06, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
::That's ability though... also, what you did is a redirect. Learn... [[User:Ht14|'''''ht''''']][[User talk:Ht14|''14'']] 02:20, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
:::Still a Psychic-type, 10 PP, Status. As for redirect, so? It's a talk page. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 02:25, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
::::Argh... no... may as well say EVERY single status move. It doesn't matter typing as long as it's related. As for redirect, this still applies... [[User:Ht14|'''''ht''''']][[User talk:Ht14|''14'']] 02:29, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
:::::No, not "every" status move. I see four moves with "Swap" in their names all of which involve switching some sort of statistic with the opponent. What's the problem? [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 03:03, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
::::::Never mind. We'll keep it as that then. [[User:Ht14|'''''ht''''']][[User talk:Ht14|''14'']] 03:08, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

So we're adding them? [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 03:16, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

== Screech Variations ==

Couldn't Cotton Spore be a Screech Variation? It's not a sound move, but it does lower one target's speed by two levels and has the same PP and Accuracy. [[User:Mr. Charlie|'''Mr. Charlie''']]([[User_Talk:Mr. Charlie|''TalkToMe'']]) 04:26, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

== {{m|Karate Chop}} and {{m|Poison Tail}} ==
25 PP, 50 power, 100 Accuracy, high critical-hit ratios. What do you think? Also, would this need a new template to stick on the bottom of the move pages? [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 05:46, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
:Creating and adding. Any other moves that could go on this template? '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 13:34, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
::I don't think so, I looked at the other Critical Hit moves, none fit the definition. {{m|Air Cutter}} is close but its not exact. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 15:05, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
:::Alright. Just wanted to make sure nothing needed to be added. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 21:16, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

== Counter Moves ==

Hey, i'm a fan of the counter moves and i've noticed something, why isn't Metal Burst counted as a variation? I've used Mirror Coat and Counter with Glaceon and Hitmonchan respectively and Metal Burst does the effects of '''both''' Mirror Coat and Counter. [[User:Geomexis|Geomexis]] 12:51, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
:Because they aren't very close. If the effect has something different (such as Metal Burst has both, while Mirror Coat and Counter only have one), it isn't a variation. [[User:Turtwig A|Turt]][[wig]] [[Turtwig (Pokémon)|A]] ([[User talk:Turtwig A|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|contribs]]) 13:00, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
::Counter specifically only repays physical damage double what was taken, and Mirror Coat specifically only repays special damage double what was taken. Metal Burst repays 1.5 damage, or what was taken plus half of that amount. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 19:02, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

== Kisses ==

{{m|Lovely Kiss}} and {{m|Sweet Kiss}}

Same accuracy, same PP. First cause sleep, second - confusion. Aren't move variations? --[[User:ЫъГЬ|ЫъГЬ]] 15:08, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

== Tackle and Peck together? ==

{{m|Tackle}} and {{m|Peck}}

The two moves are in a grouping together, but I believe they should not be. They share the Base Power of 35, but while Tackle is 95% accurate, and it mistakenly says Peck to be, Peck is 100% accurate. -- [[User:Mattman324]] 22:58:00, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

Peck and Tackle aren't variations. Especially in generation V, where Tackle received a BP of 50. Myself, I would put Peck with Vine Whip, because they both have 35 BP, 100% accuracy and no special effect. Their PP, however, differs significantly, but does that really matter? (see below) --[[User:Grrgrrgrr1000|Grrgrrgrr1000]] 15:47, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

== Signal Beam ==

I know it seems weird, but {{m|Signal Beam}} is kinda of a variation of the elemental punches... 75 power, 100 acc, 15 PP and 10% of causing status. It breaks the "tradition", so to speak, but it fits more than many of the other variations here. [[User:Mr. Charlie|'''Mr. Charlie''']]([[User_Talk:Mr. Charlie|''TalkToMe'']]) 23:38, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

==This page needs COLOR!==
Seriously, it looks really dull, which is especially bad seeing as it's pretty much all tables. One of the coding wizards here should try to make a template that incorporates colors for the type of each variation and whether they are physical, special, or a status move. For status moves, color them differently based on which stat they change or status effect they inflict—whatever it takes to make this dull-looking article into an attractive resource. --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] 16:46, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
:I was just thinking of that myself, then I thought something like this would be perfect. But, you know, with colors for generations and stuff. I'm not a coding guy, I just throw the ideas. I don't mind working on the entire page, if needed, but I really don't know how. [[User:Mr. Charlie|'''Mr. Charlie''']]([[User_Talk:Mr. Charlie|''TalkToMe'']]) 12:00, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
{| align="center" style="background: #ddf; -moz-border-radius: 1em; border: 5px solid #ccf;"
|-
|
{| border=1 width="100%" align="center" class="sortable" style="background: #FFFFFF; border:1px solid #ddf; border-collapse:collapse;"
|- style="background: #ddf;"
! {{color2|000000|Move}}
! {{color2|000000|Elemental types|Type}}
! {{color2|000000|Damage category|Cat.}}
! {{color2|000000|Generation|Gen}}
{{tutormv|U-turn|Bug|cat=Physical|IV}}
{{tutormv|Volt Change|Electric|cat=Special|V}}
|}
|}
That looks good. You can probably lose the class="sortable" since the tables are all small. And make sure you use the region colors for the generation. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 10:04, 8 October 2010 (UTC)
:Yeah... The "how" with the generation/region colors is my issue here. Could you, or anyone, show me how to do it? Really not my area of expertise. [[User:Mr. Charlie|'''Mr. Charlie''']]([[User_Talk:Mr. Charlie|''TalkToMe'']]) 21:58, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
::How's this Edit: link removed for a quick mock-up? [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] [[User talk:Werdnae|(talk)]] 04:40, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
:::I likey. Let's use it. --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] 11:20, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
::::I like the idea, but don't forget that it will take longer to load this page.--[[User:Grrgrrgrr1000|Grrgrrgrr1000]] 15:36, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

== PP ==

In the article it says that moves need to have the same PP to be variations, but throughout the article it lists moves of differing PP as variations. Should they be removed? [[User:Pikiwyn|'''''Pikiwyn''''']] [[User talk:Pikiwyn|<tt>'''''talk'''''</tt>]] 17:46, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I would think so. You can't have the article contradict itself, can you? <code>;)</code> [[User:The Exterminator|The Exterminator]] 17:53, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
:I agree, for my edit and talk page reasons. It's [[User:Turtwig A|Turtwig A]]! [[User talk:Turtwig A|My talk]] or [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|wiki edits]] 00:52, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
::An article indeed shouldn't contradict itself. That's why the definition itself needs to be altered. --[[User:Grrgrrgrr1000|Grrgrrgrr1000]] 16:27, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

== Definition ==

The definition isn't specific enough. "Move variations are moves that are identical to each other in terms of damage, PP, and accuracy, but have different elemental types, damage categories, or secondary effects." The definition works for damaging moves but according to it almost all status moves that have the same PP are variations of each other. So I'm thinking maybe the article needs a different definition for status moves? [[User:Pikiwyn|'''''Pikiwyn''''']] [[User talk:Pikiwyn|<tt>'''''talk'''''</tt>]] 17:33, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
:How about something like, Status move variations are moves that raise or decrease the same number of stats by the same number of levels. It makes more sense because that way moves like Iron Defense will be a variant of Acid Armor, instead of the current description which makes Baton Pass a variant of Acid Armor. [[User:Pikiwyn|'''''Pikiwyn''''']] [[User talk:Pikiwyn|<tt>'''''talk'''''</tt>]] 13:37, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
::This is what the definition should be: "Move varations are moves that are identical in terms of dammage and accuracy, and have similar secondary effects." --[[User:Grrgrrgrr1000|Grrgrrgrr1000]] 16:33, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

== Thrash, Petal Dance, and Outrage ==

Here's my question. Thrash and Petal Dance are grouped together, but Outrage is not included only because is has 15 PP instead of 10. This difference seems minor to me, and so I think Outrage should be insluded in this group, with a note on it. If this doesn't work, then it doesn't work, but I know for a fact that most people focos on the actual move and its effects, not the PP it has. There are even people in this talk (although from 2 years ago lol) that group them together, and I know that most people think they are the same move with different types, especially now that they have the same power in Gen V. --[[User:Jdthebud|Jdthebud]] 23:11, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
:I know that we don't want the article to contradict itself in this regard, but I think that these three moves are so similar that this could be the exception to the rule. --[[User:Jdthebud|Jdthebud]] 23:23, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
::Outrage should be included. Reason: see below.--[[User:Grrgrrgrr1000|Grrgrrgrr1000]] 15:44, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

== PP shouldn't be taken into account ==

Taking the PP into account makes the list messier and more incomplete. They are also not the most important aspect anyway ingame: it doesn't really matter if a move has 35 PP or 40 PP. Seperating Night Slash from Slash, for example, causes an unnecesary amount of slots.--[[User:Grrgrrgrr1000|Grrgrrgrr1000]] 15:44, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:I agree 100%. PP is such a minor detail, it shouldn't even matter. The important thing is base power, similar or identical side effects, and accuracy. Any move that only serves to boost a stat by two stages is a variation of Acid Armor. Well, I'm not entirely sure on Body Purge, given its other effect of halving the user's weight, but still. My point is, PP shouldn't be taken into account. - ''unsigned comment from [[User:Missingno. Master|Missingno. Master]] ([[User talk:Missingno. Master|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Missingno._Master|contribs]])'' 16:35, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
::I agree too. IMO, the amount of PP is more minor than {{tt|Damage Category|although it shouldn't be included}}.----'''''無限の知性''''' ◎ [[User:Dennou Zenshi|ＤＥＮＮＯＵ]]'''[[Special:Random|◆]]'''[[User talk:Dennou Zenshi|ＺＥＮＳＨＩ]] 16:44, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:::I also agree, it doesn't make sense that something like acid armor isn't a variant of iron defense. [[User:Pikiwyn|'''''Pikiwyn''''']] [[User talk:Pikiwyn|<tt>'''''talk'''''</tt>]] 17:32, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
::::OK, so if the majority think that PP shouldn't count, we can put it back how it was. I changed it because it seemed that people wanted PP to count. I think it should be considered at least under some circumstances. I will stop changing the templates for move variations until the issue is resolved.
::::Also, it did not create an excessive amount of categories—several were deleted and several were made, balancing out. And PP is much more influential the damage categories. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 08:12, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Ok, it's maybe better to wait until there aren't any issues about that anymore. You can always watch the version regardless of PP (where I was responsible for) at this URL: http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Move_variations&oldid=1253819--[[User:Grrgrrgrr1000|Grrgrrgrr1000]] 19:38, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::After discussing it with a couple of other admins, we decided that the PP does not have to be the same, but it should be similar. i.e. it should differ by five or less. More than that is an indication that the moves aren't especially similar. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] [[User talk:Werdnae|(talk)]] 20:38, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

==Different catagories==

I have seperated the status moves from the other moves. The sharply-stat raising moves (besides those of 15PP) are now next to each other.--[[User:Grrgrrgrr1000|Grrgrrgrr1000]] 16:56, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Haze & Mist ==

Can someone add Haze & Mist to the list (they are counterparts)?[[User:Vuvuzela2010|Vuvuzela2010]] 08:32, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

== Shadow Ball/Crunch as variations of Waterfall ==

I added them to variations of waterfall and changed the definition of waterfall so that they both fit. But since all previous variations caused flinching, and the two I added lower defense /sp. def should they be considered two different moveset variations? Also, the templates under shadow ball and crunch I left as they are because I have no idea how to do it, or if even they are in fact variations of waterfall. Thanks...

== Extreme Speed and Sucker Punch ==
{{m|Extremespeed}} now has +2 priority instead of +1. So, isn't it not a variation of {{m|Sucker Punch}} anymore? Also Sucker Punch work in different way, so this moves seems even less likely to be variations. --[[User:ЫъГЬ|ЫъГЬ]] 09:39, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

== Elemental Surfs? ==

Discharge is like surf, affecting all opponents. Also a poison move.

Also Poison Fang should be with the fangs.[[User:Tesseract|Tesseract]] 08:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
:Discharge does not have the same base power as Surf. Therefore, not a variant. Poison Fang also does not have the same base power as the other fangs. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 08:58, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Order of Oath Moves not necessary ==

Hasn't it been confirmed that the Oath moves can be used in any order to produce the same effect? The page should be updated accordingly. [[User:Grei|Grei]] 18:01, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Torterra (Pokémon)

2010-04-19T01:11:55Z

Grei:

''Diamond owned a Turtwig which he nicknamed Roo in the Pokémon Special manga which evolved into a Grotle simultaneously with Chimlord(a Chimchar)and Piplup Eterna City and then he evolved into his last evolution in Vielstone along with Chimlord''

What on Earth does this mean? I don't want to correct the grammar for fear of getting the information out of whack. [[User:Recalcitrancy|Recalcitrancy]] 19:48, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
:It basically means Diamond owned a Turtwig. It evolved into a Grotle, and then a Torterra. There's no need to get into a lot of detail about where it evolved or anything, so I just edited it and made it simpler. - [[User talk:SpontaneousCombusken|s.]][[User:SpontaneousCombusken|'''Combusken''']] 20:02, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== "Covers" all weaknesses ==

There's a note in the trivia that points out that all the types which Torterra is vulnerable to are in turn vulnerable to Rock type attacks. It also says that this means a rock type attack "covers" all of Torterra's defences. I've edited this but I don't know if I phrased it right. The idea that a rock type attack covers these defences is inaccurate, one of the fire types that Torterra will undoubtedly be pitted against is Infernape, which as Fire/Fighting doesn't have a weakness to rock types, but can use fire attacks to assault Torterra's weakness. The same is true of other type combinations, or pokémon using fire or ice type attacks without being fire or ice types themselves (like a Hitmonchan using Fire Punch or Ice Punch). I'm not quite sure how this should be phrased. Perhaps the trivia should just be trimmed so that the covering bit is gone completely? [[User:Darien Shields|Darien Shields]] 06:25, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
:Yeah, I removed it. We don't us metagame information on 'pedia articles if we can avoid it. --[[User:Martonimos|((Marton]] [[User talk:Martonimos|imos))]] 06:33, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

== Bullcrap ==

it says that it is the only sinnoh starter with a double weakness but empoleon is water/steel and therefore has a double weakness to electric'''''[[Special:Contributions/Shiny_Rayquaza|→→→]] [[User:Shiny Rayquaza|Shiny]] [[User talk:Shiny Rayquaza|Rayquaza]]''''' 23:41, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

:Steel isn't weak to Electric, though it's not very effective against it. [[User:PH1RESTRIKE| |3urn ]][[Special:contributions/PH1RESTRIKE|•]][[User talk:PH1RESTRIKE|57R1K3]] 23:42, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

== Shiny Variations Between Games ==

So, did Torterra not have a blue body in it's HGSS shiny sprite because of the changed color palette? If so, maybe that can be mentioned in the trivia. It's a more noticeable difference than the changes other Pokemon experienced. [[User:Grei|Grei]] 01:11, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Torterra (Pokémon)

2010-04-19T01:09:12Z

Grei: /* Shiny Variations Between Games */ new section

Talk:Ash's Torterra

2010-03-10T02:16:47Z

Grei: /* rock climb */

==Route 203?==

How is this possible when:
1.) Buenary was caught a few episodes later on route 202 where they started and Ash caught Starly.
2.) They haven't been through Jubilife city yet, and route 203 is on the opposite side.
Sorry, but this is just not possible. ~GT4GTR

The Anime is '''''DIFFRENT''''' than the games. n00b.
[[User:Crystallucario|'''''Crystal''''']] [[User talk:Crystallucario|'''''Lucario''''']] 12:00, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
:Good question. I'll look into it more. And Crystallucario, lay off. He only asked a question. --'''[[User:Theryguy512|Theryguy]][[User talk:Theryguy512|5]][[User:Theryguy512/Contribution Page|1]][[User:Theryguy512/Similarities|2]]''' 12:04, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Yeah Crystal, you dont just yell at someone that's asking a question[[User:Shinylucario|'''''Shiny''''']] [[User talk:Shinylucario|'''''Lucario''''']] 12:15, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, and i'm only a 14 year old kid. ~GT4GTR
:Well, just remember, this is the same anime that says {{rt|24}} leads to [[Vermilion City]]. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]][[Image:Ani155MS.gif|Fire echy]]''' 06:41, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
::Yea. And the same anime where {{Ash}} is able to carry an 100-pound {{p|Hippopotas}} on top of his head with the slightest of ease... --'''[[User:Theryguy512|Theryguy]][[User talk:Theryguy512|5]][[User:Theryguy512/Contribution Page|1]][[User:Theryguy512/Similarities|2]]''' 11:58, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
<.<' whoa I'm only 12 almost 13...
[[User:Crystallucario|'''''Crystal''''']] [[User talk:Crystallucario|'''''Lucario''''']] 12:03, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Okay, so the anime is different, but still, how did route 203 come up? Did anyone say route 203? ~GT4GTR

You were the one who brought it up. ''YOU'' tell ''ME''. Sorry I was so rude...just then. Let's be friends![[User:DaPikanator56|DaPikanator56]] 00:48, 31 March 2008 (UTC)DaPikanator56

I know this is old, but it still says route 203. I didn't bring it up, it says it ON THE PAGE. Is there an proof that he was caught on route 203? ([[User:GT4GTR|GT4GTR]] 10:41, 21 October 2008 (UTC))

:Considering that two episodes before it we have proof that Sato-tachi were on Route 202, and it's not until 5 episodes later that they get to Kotobuki City, I would assume that Neatle was caught on Route 202, not Route 203. Unfortunately, the 10th Movie map gives no little evidence on where Neatle was caught, because it doesn't have a subtitle beneath it where it appears. Since neither Route 202 or Route 203 are mentioned, there isn't an official statement that they are on either when Neatle is caught. However, it seems much more likely to assume that they are on Route 202, than our assumption of Route 203. Of course, we can't go about and change this all until he becomes Satoshi's Hayashigame, can we? [[User:Kumori Satosuke|Satosuke]] 13:30, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

== Protect Until October 30th ==

There have already been several speculative edits and reverts over the topic of a possible evolution in [[DP100]]. Shouldn't this page be protected until October 30th? [[User:Kumori Satosuke|Satosuke]] 14:08, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
:The evolution has now been confirmed but our policy is to not move the article until the episode airs. Yeah, the protection should stick. --[[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] |[[User talk:Fabu-Vinny|Talk Page]]| 16:48, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Why was the protection banner removed? It said because it spoils the episode, but so what? Plenty of other pokémon articles have used this, such as May's pokémon when she returned for the Wallace Cup, so why can't the banner be used now?

--[[User:HoennMaster|--HoennMaster]] 16:51, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
:That banner just said there was a chance that something happens to Turtwig. But we now know what exactly happens so the banner has no use there. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 16:54, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
::SOme people just don't like spoilers anyway--[[Bulbapedia:Project Custom Sprite|☆]][[User:Tavisource|Tavis]][[User talk:Tavisource|ource]] 16:54, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
:::And who's to say this isn't its final appearance? Remember, the banner said "evolve and/or leave". Given many different Turtwig, Grotle, and Torterra appear in this episode, it's possible we could have an [[Ash's Pidgeot]]-like situation on our hands, and we don't want people putting that in like it was confirmed. Remember, {{TP|Ash|Chimchar}} is Ash's signature traditional elemental starter in [[Generation IV]]--and this would probably be the biggest and best way to send Turtwig off. I mean, if the writers had planned on making Turtwig Ash's signature elemental starter, Chimchar would either be in Brock's hands or still under Paul's control right now. --[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 20:39, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

So? We had pictures of May's Wartortle from the Wallace Cup and there was still a banner saying it might evolve.

--[[User:HoennMaster|--HoennMaster]] 17:40, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
:Probably because there was still a chance at the time of the revelation that it could be seen onscreen evolving--even in the episode where Wartortle was first confirmed to appear evolved. --[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 20:39, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Ok...but that still doesn't say anything about why the banner was removed here.

--[[User:HoennMaster|--HoennMaster]] 20:42, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

:Probably because {{u|Kenji-girl}} is paranoid. --[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 20:44, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
::Scuse me. I'm not paranoid. You the ones who told be we don't mention anything until the episode airs. Isn't that what the banner is doing? We did the same thing for Ash's Chimchar for like a month and it wasn't even evolving. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 06:13, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
:::"evindence that the subject of this article '''''may''''' evolve or leave." We don't mention anything, regarding of course, the fact of the evolution in the article itself, as if it's already happened, however, this banner warns users that an evolution may occur and to be careful handling information related to it, as rumors may be flying around. The banner exists to tell users "Yes we know it's likely evolving, keep your pants on about it until the episode airs because the rule is "as of the most recent Japanese episode". It's not that the rule is that we can't acknowledge the fact, it's that we don't move anything until it happens. It's why I comment that stuff out. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 06:32, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
::::!!!!it alredy evolved check www.serebii.net and look at ash''s bio,....it evolved before dp100 so ur speculations were wrong [[User:Ritchie|Ritchie]]

yes hes right....kinda. serebii did say turtwig evolved and they even have a pic of ash and grotle, but it still said it evolved in Turtwig, Grotle.....Torterra!? or whatever its called [[User:Happizelpom|Happi]][[User talk:Happizelpom|zel]][[Special:Contributions/Happizelpom|pom]] 13:35, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
:It was also my idea about the "until it airs" thing, and I previews ARE OFFICIAL.--[[Bulbapedia:Project Custom Sprite|☆]][[User:Tavisource|Tavis]][[User talk:Tavisource|ource]] 23:11, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
You guys need to read, it even says on the main page that it contains spoilers for '''NEXT WEEK'S''' episode.

--[[User:HoennMaster|--HoennMaster]] 14:08, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

:man just go to serebii and find out for urself. they usually update stuff before bulba and even if it says NEXT WEEK, it already happened..i guess he just got a preview pic or someting..[[User:Ritchie|Ritchie]]
:::Ritchie's right. Its on serebii, and I think we can rely on it. DP099 already aired and got some episode preview for DP100.. isn't that enough proof?--'''[[User:Kevzo8|keb]][[User_talk:Kevzo8|s.]]''' 14:06, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Seriously does anyone here know how to read? Yes, it comes from the episode preview, but turtwig won't evolve until next week as it says on Serebii.

--[[User:HoennMaster|--HoennMaster]] 14:08, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

oh, I get it. imaiso{{tt|*|sorry.}}. --'''[[User:Kevzo8|keb]][[User_talk:Kevzo8|s.]]''' 14:21, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
:Preview = didn't happen yet, folks. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 21:09, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
::ye but thats the points of a preview. u find out what happenes before hand , eurging u to watch it. so now we know he gets a grotle. thats final [[User:Blazinhariison|Blazinhariison]]
:::so tte, your basically saying a preview is wrong??? [[User:Ritchie|Ritchie]]
::::i think u mean that "it may be a preview but hte episode didnt air", however tte the preview is FROM the episode and it just showed us what WILL happen...P.S. im also ritchie lol [[User:Blazinhariison|Blazinhariison]]

Please sign your comments with the time stamp of the four tildes. That being said, it's also possible that Grotle could evolve again, leave later in the episode; we just DON'T KNOW. That's why we don't jump the gun and put in information that COULD be false. Yes, we know that Turtwig is going to evolve at least once. We've known this with a high percentage of certainty for a while now. But, we cannot post it until we know just what happens next week. Serebii doesn't know what happens in the next episode, only what was shown in the preview. So we cannot post it as if it were true unless we know the full truth of the matter. [[User:Kumori Satosuke|Satosuke]] 23:43, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

yay it evolved!

==95/96==

Why do people keep chaning this to 95? It appears debuts in DP005 so that makes it 96. --[[User:HoennMaster|Hoenn]][[User talk:HoennMaster|Master]] 03:52, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
: Try 100-5= 95 :3...... It actually does evolve 95 episodes after its capture. --[[User:Force Fire|Force]] [[User talk:Force Fire|Fire]] 03:56, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
::How the heck does anyone get that 5 + 96 = 100... Math refresher course for everyone. 95 episodes makes it the same amount as Grovyle's into Scepty, too. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 04:12, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

I know how to do Math, but 95 is wrong. It may evolve 95 episodes later, but it still appears as a Turtwig in 96 episodes. --[[User:HoennMaster|Hoenn]][[User talk:HoennMaster|Master]] 04:15, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
:That's the point. It evolved 95 episodes later. It's not how many episodes it appeared as a Turtwig in, otherwise we'd have Brock's Steelix taking 5 episodes to evolve. Seriously, how often did that thing appear? '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 04:38, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
:: I know there's a particular way to count. For Example: How many days until saturday? Since today is Saturday, and if we include Saturday in the count it would be eight days (Sat, Sun, Mon, Tue, Wen, Thu, Fri, and Sat) even though it's only supposed to seven days. But we don't do that in math (start from a certain digit and include the same digit in the math). In math it's always the next "digit" that counts when we start from "something" (like "1" we start from "0" but we don't include it). Another example, 5+5 is 10 but we don't count the first 5 as part of the equation, the count continues on 6. HoennMaster if we did it your way 5+5 would equal 11 not 10. So the same thing applies to Turtwig's evolution count. It's debut episode basically doesn't count in the equation since it's the "something" we start from in the count. We start with DP06 as "1" not DP05 "0"--[[User:Dman dustin|Dman dustin]] 09:03, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

I don't need a math lesson, I know full well how to do Math. Also, I don't need a million people telling me the same thing. Redundancy is not good. --[[User:HoennMaster|Hoenn]][[User talk:HoennMaster|Master]] 10:36, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
: Yeah well and you don't need to take it offensively. Why the hell do people get offended, when people are trying to help them? --[[User:Dman dustin|Dman dustin]] 12:35, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

==rock climb==
what does it mean by "Grotle surpassed its own limits and learned rock climb through its willpower alone" dont all pokemon do that? [[User:Happizelpom|Happi]][[User talk:Happizelpom|zel]][[Special:Contributions/Happizelpom|pom]] 03:41, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
:I think what is meant is that Grotle didn't have the speed for an attack that required a lot of movement, yet it conquered at least some of it's speed limits by it's own willpower to save Ash. [[User:Grei|Grei]] 02:16, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

== Why!!!! ==

I want some reason that why this picture is horrible.
[[Image:Ash's Grotle 2.png|240px]]
I think the general theory is that if it has the Trainer in the photo, it's clearly the Trainer's Pokémon and this picture is clearly proving that Ash is the trainer of this grotle.
So i think this is the right picture for this article.
If you guys still feel that it is a horrible picture then please give me some reasons.
--♫♪[[User:Adyniz|'''Ady''']][[User talk:Adyniz|'''niz''']]♪♫ 03:57, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
:It's called blurry... [[User:Ht14|''ht'']][[User talk:Ht14|''14'']] 03:58, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
::You beat me to it... but then again, I wasn't on late enough to see this. [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|R.A. Hunter B.]] 21:03, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
:::And also...it's better HD.--[[Bulbapedia:Project Custom Sprite|☆]][[User:Tavisource|Tavis]][[User talk:Tavisource|ource]] 02:19, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

==Overgrow?==
Did Ash's Grotle use Overgrow in DP141? Just need this clarified, since I would have to wait until the episode is dubbed. --[[User:Rockersk08|rock]][[User talk:Rockersk08|ersk]][[Special:Contributions/Rockersk08|08]] 00:48, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
:Yes. --♫♪[[User:Adyniz|'''Ady''']][[User talk:Adyniz|'''niz''']]♪♫ 01:02, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
:: Thanks. I just needed clarification because some don't believe so. But the only way to be positive is for the English dub. Thanks anyway. --[[User:Rockersk08|rock]][[User talk:Rockersk08|ersk]][[Special:Contributions/Rockersk08|08]] 01:04, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
:::My pleasure. --♫♪[[User:Adyniz|'''Ady''']][[User talk:Adyniz|'''niz''']]♪♫ 01:07, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
If this is true, then why is it still unknown in the ability box? (just curious) --[[User:Wytsalvy|wytsalvy]] 17:24, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
:Because it was proven that it wasn't overgrow, but Grotle being powered up. [[User:Turtwig A|Turt]][[wig]] [[Turtwig (Pokémon)|A]] ([[User talk:Turtwig A|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|contribs]]) 17:50, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

== SolarBeam? ==

When did that happen? I didn't see it use SolarBeam. Though the video was very glitchy. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 03:09, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
::That would be because it didn't learn solarbeam and people are just making it up. --DSDark 04:11, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
:::It didn't learned Solar Beam. I watched the whole episode clearly. --♫♪[[User:Adyniz|'''Ady''']][[User talk:Adyniz|'''niz''']]♪♫ 09:06, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

== A Move Improvised? ==

Isnt Grotle eating its Energy Ball in some way a move improvised? [[User: BAC510]] 00:08, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

== Evolution Protection ==

''[[The Greatest - Everyday!]]'' has heavily implied that Grotle is soon to evolve (basically Torterra appeared alongside Ash's Pokémon while Grotle was missing), so this page needs to be protected from the 'jumping the gun'ers out there. [[User:Watchermark|Watchermark]] 11:20, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
:It is. - [[User:Kogoro|'''<sc>Kogoro</sc>''']] '''|''' [[User talk:Kogoro|'''<sc>Talk to me</sc>''']] - 11:26, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
::Until then, I propose that this bumper be used. - ''[[User:Chosen|Chosen]] of [[User talk:Chosen|Mana]]''[[User:Chosen|-]] 16:06, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
::<nowiki>{{EpiProtect|evolve}}</nowiki>

== Ability is missing ==

{{P|Turtwig}} and its evolution family only have one ability; an ability shared with the rest of the starters. PLease add it. - [[User:050294|050294]] 00:42, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
:We have a policy that states that the abilities of anime Pokémon are only put in the article when it is literally said in the anime. Grotle's ability hasn't been explicitly said to be Overgrow, so we cannot add it in. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 00:46, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

== DP166 Evolution Possibility ==

I checked through serebiinetforums and a User there posted a new summary from the TVtokyo Site, with the text translating to:'Sunyshore Tower Hijacked!? The key to the solution is Torterra!?' The template on Grotle's Page should show DP166 as its possible evolution episode. Thanks. [[User:BAC510]] 09:19 February 19, 2010 (UTC)
:I know, I checked TV Tokyo myself and it is '''MENTIONED''' there. I am 10000% sure that Ash's Grotle is going to evolve in DP166 but we should wait for the episode before doing anything crazy/speculated. --♫♪[[User:Adyniz|'''Ady''']][[User talk:Adyniz|'''Niz''']]♪♫ 09:22, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
::Guess what? Wait.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F''']][[Ho-Oh (Pokémon)|orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F''']][[Lugia (Pokémon)|ire]] 10:40, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
:::Exactly. --♫♪[[User:Adyniz|'''Ady''']][[User talk:Adyniz|'''Niz''']]♪♫ 10:48, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
::::I think this user is saying to change the banner so that it shows DP166 as when it may evolve, meaning the template at the top should say this: <nowiki>{{EpiProtect|evolve|DP166|March 4, 2010}}</nowiki> [[User:Turtwig A|Turt]][[wig]] [[Turtwig (Pokémon)|A]] ([[User talk:Turtwig A|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|contribs]]) 12:37, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
::::: Personally I'm still hesitant with the new information, I think we should wait for possibly a new summary of the episode, before changing the banner. With Infernape it was obvious, but this is a little more difficult to buy, true Grotle could evolve in DP166 as the small summary seems to imply, but still not quite convincing. If it's changed fine, but I still feel hesitant to say with "Banner" certainty. --[[User:Dman dustin|Dman dustin]] 12:42, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
:::::: I think that the mere mention of a Pokemon that happens to evolve from something the main characters own isn't enough to warrant that banner. However, when said main character's Pokemon is confirmed to be evolving sometime in the near future in any case, that's a different story. - ''unsigned comment from [[User:Missingno. Master|Missingno. Master]] ([[User talk:Missingno. Master|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Missingno._Master|contribs]])'' 21:18, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

== Recently used move(s) ==

As Grotle appeared in [[DP164]] but only used Energy Ball I think that Razor Leaf, Synthesis and Rock Climb should no longer be considered as recently used moves (as it hasn't used any of them since [[DP144]]). [[User:Watchermark|Watchermark]] 15:01, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
:Does it even matter which moves were used most recently? I think the last contest episode proved that Pokémon in the anime are not limited to four moves at a time! Ursula's Plusle and Minun each used Charge, Discharge, Encore, Spark, Helping Hand, and Charge Beam. That's six, count 'em, six moves! - ''unsigned comment from [[User:Missingno. Master|Missingno. Master]] ([[User talk:Missingno. Master|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Missingno._Master|contribs]])'' 21:15, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
::Not the point of the recent moves thing. [[User:Tc26/Anime Predictions|tc]][[User:Tc26|²₆]][[User talk:Tc26|tc]][[User:Tc26/Sandbox|26]] 00:08, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
:::It may not matter what moves were used recently, but it is still noted. Besides, usually when a main character's Pokémon learns a new move an old one is phased out (look at Pikachu, he's never used Thunder after learning Volt Tackle). Fair enough Grotle hasn't learned anything new recently, but you can't deny it's been a while since it used anything besides Energy Ball. [[User:Watchermark|Watchermark]] 00:17, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
::::My comment is for Missingno., if you're unaware. [[User:Tc26/Anime Predictions|tc]][[User:Tc26|²₆]][[User talk:Tc26|tc]][[User:Tc26/Sandbox|26]] 00:40, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
:::::So was mine [[User:Watchermark|Watchermark]] 09:50, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

== Changing the Evolution Banner! ==

DP166 Preview just aired and I was right about the evolution. It's set to happen in this episode. Time to change it please. [[User:BAC510]] 19:34 February 25, 2010 (UTC)

not yet we have to wait till the episode airs don't ask me why that's just the rules--[[User:Grungle7|Grungle7]] 20:14, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
: That's not what BAC510 was referring to, he was referring to the banner it needs to be changed so it says "There is evidence this Pokemon will evolve in DP166, and will be unprotected when DP166 airs on March 4 2010" or something like that. He wasn't saying the page itself should be updated just the evolution banner.--[[User:Dman dustin|Dman dustin]] 22:05, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

==Grotle Will Evolve In DP 166?==

I just watched a preview of DP166. It showed Grotle evolving.
{{unsigned|Empoleon222}}
:Cool beans. But we're still waiting until it airs. For all we know they could be trolling and the whole glowing bit is just an epic new move, not an evolution. [[User:Umeko|梅子]][[User talk:Umeko|❄]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|❅]] 04:11, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
::I agree with you (ume) that we should wait until it airs (''For all we know they could be trolling and the whole glowing bit is just an epic new move, not an evolution?'' Lol, now that was very funny :D). --♫♪[[User:Adyniz|'''Ady''']][[User talk:Adyniz|'''Niz''']]♪♫ 04:29, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
:::We have to wait, can't change it because it's still a Grotle. --[[User:HoennMaster|Hoenn]][[User talk:HoennMaster|Master]] 05:38, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
:::: How about now? It's been around 2 hours or so, and the article is still protected. --[[User:Dman dustin|Dman dustin]] 12:25, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
:::::I think admins are waiting for a good image for torterra. {{unsigned|Adyniz}}

== Type Advantage against Luxray...? ==

"In DP166, Grotle was used in Ash's first Gym battle against Volkner's Luxray where, despite the type-advantage"

Grotle doesn't have a type advantage against Electric-types, it's only a Grass-type.[[User:Grei|Grei]] 03:19, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
:And {{type2|Grass}} are resistant to {{type2|Electric}} attacks, hence a type advantage. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] [[User talk:Werdnae|(talk)]] 03:51, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
::"Type advantage" suggests that Grotle's type can trump Luxray's. Wouldn't something like, "despite not having a type-disadvantage" be better, or maybe even an omission of that part entirely? [[User:Grei|Grei]] 02:12, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Ash's Torterra

2010-03-10T02:12:33Z

Grei: /* Type Advantage against Luxray...? */

==Route 203?==

How is this possible when:
1.) Buenary was caught a few episodes later on route 202 where they started and Ash caught Starly.
2.) They haven't been through Jubilife city yet, and route 203 is on the opposite side.
Sorry, but this is just not possible. ~GT4GTR

The Anime is '''''DIFFRENT''''' than the games. n00b.
[[User:Crystallucario|'''''Crystal''''']] [[User talk:Crystallucario|'''''Lucario''''']] 12:00, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
:Good question. I'll look into it more. And Crystallucario, lay off. He only asked a question. --'''[[User:Theryguy512|Theryguy]][[User talk:Theryguy512|5]][[User:Theryguy512/Contribution Page|1]][[User:Theryguy512/Similarities|2]]''' 12:04, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Yeah Crystal, you dont just yell at someone that's asking a question[[User:Shinylucario|'''''Shiny''''']] [[User talk:Shinylucario|'''''Lucario''''']] 12:15, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, and i'm only a 14 year old kid. ~GT4GTR
:Well, just remember, this is the same anime that says {{rt|24}} leads to [[Vermilion City]]. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]][[Image:Ani155MS.gif|Fire echy]]''' 06:41, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
::Yea. And the same anime where {{Ash}} is able to carry an 100-pound {{p|Hippopotas}} on top of his head with the slightest of ease... --'''[[User:Theryguy512|Theryguy]][[User talk:Theryguy512|5]][[User:Theryguy512/Contribution Page|1]][[User:Theryguy512/Similarities|2]]''' 11:58, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
<.<' whoa I'm only 12 almost 13...
[[User:Crystallucario|'''''Crystal''''']] [[User talk:Crystallucario|'''''Lucario''''']] 12:03, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Okay, so the anime is different, but still, how did route 203 come up? Did anyone say route 203? ~GT4GTR

You were the one who brought it up. ''YOU'' tell ''ME''. Sorry I was so rude...just then. Let's be friends![[User:DaPikanator56|DaPikanator56]] 00:48, 31 March 2008 (UTC)DaPikanator56

I know this is old, but it still says route 203. I didn't bring it up, it says it ON THE PAGE. Is there an proof that he was caught on route 203? ([[User:GT4GTR|GT4GTR]] 10:41, 21 October 2008 (UTC))

:Considering that two episodes before it we have proof that Sato-tachi were on Route 202, and it's not until 5 episodes later that they get to Kotobuki City, I would assume that Neatle was caught on Route 202, not Route 203. Unfortunately, the 10th Movie map gives no little evidence on where Neatle was caught, because it doesn't have a subtitle beneath it where it appears. Since neither Route 202 or Route 203 are mentioned, there isn't an official statement that they are on either when Neatle is caught. However, it seems much more likely to assume that they are on Route 202, than our assumption of Route 203. Of course, we can't go about and change this all until he becomes Satoshi's Hayashigame, can we? [[User:Kumori Satosuke|Satosuke]] 13:30, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

== Protect Until October 30th ==

There have already been several speculative edits and reverts over the topic of a possible evolution in [[DP100]]. Shouldn't this page be protected until October 30th? [[User:Kumori Satosuke|Satosuke]] 14:08, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
:The evolution has now been confirmed but our policy is to not move the article until the episode airs. Yeah, the protection should stick. --[[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] |[[User talk:Fabu-Vinny|Talk Page]]| 16:48, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Why was the protection banner removed? It said because it spoils the episode, but so what? Plenty of other pokémon articles have used this, such as May's pokémon when she returned for the Wallace Cup, so why can't the banner be used now?

--[[User:HoennMaster|--HoennMaster]] 16:51, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
:That banner just said there was a chance that something happens to Turtwig. But we now know what exactly happens so the banner has no use there. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 16:54, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
::SOme people just don't like spoilers anyway--[[Bulbapedia:Project Custom Sprite|☆]][[User:Tavisource|Tavis]][[User talk:Tavisource|ource]] 16:54, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
:::And who's to say this isn't its final appearance? Remember, the banner said "evolve and/or leave". Given many different Turtwig, Grotle, and Torterra appear in this episode, it's possible we could have an [[Ash's Pidgeot]]-like situation on our hands, and we don't want people putting that in like it was confirmed. Remember, {{TP|Ash|Chimchar}} is Ash's signature traditional elemental starter in [[Generation IV]]--and this would probably be the biggest and best way to send Turtwig off. I mean, if the writers had planned on making Turtwig Ash's signature elemental starter, Chimchar would either be in Brock's hands or still under Paul's control right now. --[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 20:39, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

So? We had pictures of May's Wartortle from the Wallace Cup and there was still a banner saying it might evolve.

--[[User:HoennMaster|--HoennMaster]] 17:40, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
:Probably because there was still a chance at the time of the revelation that it could be seen onscreen evolving--even in the episode where Wartortle was first confirmed to appear evolved. --[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 20:39, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Ok...but that still doesn't say anything about why the banner was removed here.

--[[User:HoennMaster|--HoennMaster]] 20:42, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

:Probably because {{u|Kenji-girl}} is paranoid. --[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 20:44, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
::Scuse me. I'm not paranoid. You the ones who told be we don't mention anything until the episode airs. Isn't that what the banner is doing? We did the same thing for Ash's Chimchar for like a month and it wasn't even evolving. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 06:13, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
:::"evindence that the subject of this article '''''may''''' evolve or leave." We don't mention anything, regarding of course, the fact of the evolution in the article itself, as if it's already happened, however, this banner warns users that an evolution may occur and to be careful handling information related to it, as rumors may be flying around. The banner exists to tell users "Yes we know it's likely evolving, keep your pants on about it until the episode airs because the rule is "as of the most recent Japanese episode". It's not that the rule is that we can't acknowledge the fact, it's that we don't move anything until it happens. It's why I comment that stuff out. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 06:32, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
::::!!!!it alredy evolved check www.serebii.net and look at ash''s bio,....it evolved before dp100 so ur speculations were wrong [[User:Ritchie|Ritchie]]

yes hes right....kinda. serebii did say turtwig evolved and they even have a pic of ash and grotle, but it still said it evolved in Turtwig, Grotle.....Torterra!? or whatever its called [[User:Happizelpom|Happi]][[User talk:Happizelpom|zel]][[Special:Contributions/Happizelpom|pom]] 13:35, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
:It was also my idea about the "until it airs" thing, and I previews ARE OFFICIAL.--[[Bulbapedia:Project Custom Sprite|☆]][[User:Tavisource|Tavis]][[User talk:Tavisource|ource]] 23:11, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
You guys need to read, it even says on the main page that it contains spoilers for '''NEXT WEEK'S''' episode.

--[[User:HoennMaster|--HoennMaster]] 14:08, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

:man just go to serebii and find out for urself. they usually update stuff before bulba and even if it says NEXT WEEK, it already happened..i guess he just got a preview pic or someting..[[User:Ritchie|Ritchie]]
:::Ritchie's right. Its on serebii, and I think we can rely on it. DP099 already aired and got some episode preview for DP100.. isn't that enough proof?--'''[[User:Kevzo8|keb]][[User_talk:Kevzo8|s.]]''' 14:06, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Seriously does anyone here know how to read? Yes, it comes from the episode preview, but turtwig won't evolve until next week as it says on Serebii.

--[[User:HoennMaster|--HoennMaster]] 14:08, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

oh, I get it. imaiso{{tt|*|sorry.}}. --'''[[User:Kevzo8|keb]][[User_talk:Kevzo8|s.]]''' 14:21, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
:Preview = didn't happen yet, folks. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 21:09, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
::ye but thats the points of a preview. u find out what happenes before hand , eurging u to watch it. so now we know he gets a grotle. thats final [[User:Blazinhariison|Blazinhariison]]
:::so tte, your basically saying a preview is wrong??? [[User:Ritchie|Ritchie]]
::::i think u mean that "it may be a preview but hte episode didnt air", however tte the preview is FROM the episode and it just showed us what WILL happen...P.S. im also ritchie lol [[User:Blazinhariison|Blazinhariison]]

Please sign your comments with the time stamp of the four tildes. That being said, it's also possible that Grotle could evolve again, leave later in the episode; we just DON'T KNOW. That's why we don't jump the gun and put in information that COULD be false. Yes, we know that Turtwig is going to evolve at least once. We've known this with a high percentage of certainty for a while now. But, we cannot post it until we know just what happens next week. Serebii doesn't know what happens in the next episode, only what was shown in the preview. So we cannot post it as if it were true unless we know the full truth of the matter. [[User:Kumori Satosuke|Satosuke]] 23:43, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

yay it evolved!

==95/96==

Why do people keep chaning this to 95? It appears debuts in DP005 so that makes it 96. --[[User:HoennMaster|Hoenn]][[User talk:HoennMaster|Master]] 03:52, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
: Try 100-5= 95 :3...... It actually does evolve 95 episodes after its capture. --[[User:Force Fire|Force]] [[User talk:Force Fire|Fire]] 03:56, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
::How the heck does anyone get that 5 + 96 = 100... Math refresher course for everyone. 95 episodes makes it the same amount as Grovyle's into Scepty, too. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 04:12, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

I know how to do Math, but 95 is wrong. It may evolve 95 episodes later, but it still appears as a Turtwig in 96 episodes. --[[User:HoennMaster|Hoenn]][[User talk:HoennMaster|Master]] 04:15, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
:That's the point. It evolved 95 episodes later. It's not how many episodes it appeared as a Turtwig in, otherwise we'd have Brock's Steelix taking 5 episodes to evolve. Seriously, how often did that thing appear? '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 04:38, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
:: I know there's a particular way to count. For Example: How many days until saturday? Since today is Saturday, and if we include Saturday in the count it would be eight days (Sat, Sun, Mon, Tue, Wen, Thu, Fri, and Sat) even though it's only supposed to seven days. But we don't do that in math (start from a certain digit and include the same digit in the math). In math it's always the next "digit" that counts when we start from "something" (like "1" we start from "0" but we don't include it). Another example, 5+5 is 10 but we don't count the first 5 as part of the equation, the count continues on 6. HoennMaster if we did it your way 5+5 would equal 11 not 10. So the same thing applies to Turtwig's evolution count. It's debut episode basically doesn't count in the equation since it's the "something" we start from in the count. We start with DP06 as "1" not DP05 "0"--[[User:Dman dustin|Dman dustin]] 09:03, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

I don't need a math lesson, I know full well how to do Math. Also, I don't need a million people telling me the same thing. Redundancy is not good. --[[User:HoennMaster|Hoenn]][[User talk:HoennMaster|Master]] 10:36, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
: Yeah well and you don't need to take it offensively. Why the hell do people get offended, when people are trying to help them? --[[User:Dman dustin|Dman dustin]] 12:35, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

==rock climb==
what does it mean by "Grotle surpassed its own limits and learned rock climb through its willpower alone" dont all pokemon do that? [[User:Happizelpom|Happi]][[User talk:Happizelpom|zel]][[Special:Contributions/Happizelpom|pom]] 03:41, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

== Why!!!! ==

I want some reason that why this picture is horrible.
[[Image:Ash's Grotle 2.png|240px]]
I think the general theory is that if it has the Trainer in the photo, it's clearly the Trainer's Pokémon and this picture is clearly proving that Ash is the trainer of this grotle.
So i think this is the right picture for this article.
If you guys still feel that it is a horrible picture then please give me some reasons.
--♫♪[[User:Adyniz|'''Ady''']][[User talk:Adyniz|'''niz''']]♪♫ 03:57, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
:It's called blurry... [[User:Ht14|''ht'']][[User talk:Ht14|''14'']] 03:58, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
::You beat me to it... but then again, I wasn't on late enough to see this. [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|R.A. Hunter B.]] 21:03, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
:::And also...it's better HD.--[[Bulbapedia:Project Custom Sprite|☆]][[User:Tavisource|Tavis]][[User talk:Tavisource|ource]] 02:19, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

==Overgrow?==
Did Ash's Grotle use Overgrow in DP141? Just need this clarified, since I would have to wait until the episode is dubbed. --[[User:Rockersk08|rock]][[User talk:Rockersk08|ersk]][[Special:Contributions/Rockersk08|08]] 00:48, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
:Yes. --♫♪[[User:Adyniz|'''Ady''']][[User talk:Adyniz|'''niz''']]♪♫ 01:02, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
:: Thanks. I just needed clarification because some don't believe so. But the only way to be positive is for the English dub. Thanks anyway. --[[User:Rockersk08|rock]][[User talk:Rockersk08|ersk]][[Special:Contributions/Rockersk08|08]] 01:04, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
:::My pleasure. --♫♪[[User:Adyniz|'''Ady''']][[User talk:Adyniz|'''niz''']]♪♫ 01:07, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
If this is true, then why is it still unknown in the ability box? (just curious) --[[User:Wytsalvy|wytsalvy]] 17:24, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
:Because it was proven that it wasn't overgrow, but Grotle being powered up. [[User:Turtwig A|Turt]][[wig]] [[Turtwig (Pokémon)|A]] ([[User talk:Turtwig A|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|contribs]]) 17:50, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

== SolarBeam? ==

When did that happen? I didn't see it use SolarBeam. Though the video was very glitchy. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 03:09, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
::That would be because it didn't learn solarbeam and people are just making it up. --DSDark 04:11, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
:::It didn't learned Solar Beam. I watched the whole episode clearly. --♫♪[[User:Adyniz|'''Ady''']][[User talk:Adyniz|'''niz''']]♪♫ 09:06, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

== A Move Improvised? ==

Isnt Grotle eating its Energy Ball in some way a move improvised? [[User: BAC510]] 00:08, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

== Evolution Protection ==

''[[The Greatest - Everyday!]]'' has heavily implied that Grotle is soon to evolve (basically Torterra appeared alongside Ash's Pokémon while Grotle was missing), so this page needs to be protected from the 'jumping the gun'ers out there. [[User:Watchermark|Watchermark]] 11:20, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
:It is. - [[User:Kogoro|'''<sc>Kogoro</sc>''']] '''|''' [[User talk:Kogoro|'''<sc>Talk to me</sc>''']] - 11:26, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
::Until then, I propose that this bumper be used. - ''[[User:Chosen|Chosen]] of [[User talk:Chosen|Mana]]''[[User:Chosen|-]] 16:06, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
::<nowiki>{{EpiProtect|evolve}}</nowiki>

== Ability is missing ==

{{P|Turtwig}} and its evolution family only have one ability; an ability shared with the rest of the starters. PLease add it. - [[User:050294|050294]] 00:42, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
:We have a policy that states that the abilities of anime Pokémon are only put in the article when it is literally said in the anime. Grotle's ability hasn't been explicitly said to be Overgrow, so we cannot add it in. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 00:46, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

== DP166 Evolution Possibility ==

I checked through serebiinetforums and a User there posted a new summary from the TVtokyo Site, with the text translating to:'Sunyshore Tower Hijacked!? The key to the solution is Torterra!?' The template on Grotle's Page should show DP166 as its possible evolution episode. Thanks. [[User:BAC510]] 09:19 February 19, 2010 (UTC)
:I know, I checked TV Tokyo myself and it is '''MENTIONED''' there. I am 10000% sure that Ash's Grotle is going to evolve in DP166 but we should wait for the episode before doing anything crazy/speculated. --♫♪[[User:Adyniz|'''Ady''']][[User talk:Adyniz|'''Niz''']]♪♫ 09:22, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
::Guess what? Wait.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F''']][[Ho-Oh (Pokémon)|orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F''']][[Lugia (Pokémon)|ire]] 10:40, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
:::Exactly. --♫♪[[User:Adyniz|'''Ady''']][[User talk:Adyniz|'''Niz''']]♪♫ 10:48, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
::::I think this user is saying to change the banner so that it shows DP166 as when it may evolve, meaning the template at the top should say this: <nowiki>{{EpiProtect|evolve|DP166|March 4, 2010}}</nowiki> [[User:Turtwig A|Turt]][[wig]] [[Turtwig (Pokémon)|A]] ([[User talk:Turtwig A|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|contribs]]) 12:37, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
::::: Personally I'm still hesitant with the new information, I think we should wait for possibly a new summary of the episode, before changing the banner. With Infernape it was obvious, but this is a little more difficult to buy, true Grotle could evolve in DP166 as the small summary seems to imply, but still not quite convincing. If it's changed fine, but I still feel hesitant to say with "Banner" certainty. --[[User:Dman dustin|Dman dustin]] 12:42, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
:::::: I think that the mere mention of a Pokemon that happens to evolve from something the main characters own isn't enough to warrant that banner. However, when said main character's Pokemon is confirmed to be evolving sometime in the near future in any case, that's a different story. - ''unsigned comment from [[User:Missingno. Master|Missingno. Master]] ([[User talk:Missingno. Master|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Missingno._Master|contribs]])'' 21:18, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

== Recently used move(s) ==

As Grotle appeared in [[DP164]] but only used Energy Ball I think that Razor Leaf, Synthesis and Rock Climb should no longer be considered as recently used moves (as it hasn't used any of them since [[DP144]]). [[User:Watchermark|Watchermark]] 15:01, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
:Does it even matter which moves were used most recently? I think the last contest episode proved that Pokémon in the anime are not limited to four moves at a time! Ursula's Plusle and Minun each used Charge, Discharge, Encore, Spark, Helping Hand, and Charge Beam. That's six, count 'em, six moves! - ''unsigned comment from [[User:Missingno. Master|Missingno. Master]] ([[User talk:Missingno. Master|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Missingno._Master|contribs]])'' 21:15, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
::Not the point of the recent moves thing. [[User:Tc26/Anime Predictions|tc]][[User:Tc26|²₆]][[User talk:Tc26|tc]][[User:Tc26/Sandbox|26]] 00:08, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
:::It may not matter what moves were used recently, but it is still noted. Besides, usually when a main character's Pokémon learns a new move an old one is phased out (look at Pikachu, he's never used Thunder after learning Volt Tackle). Fair enough Grotle hasn't learned anything new recently, but you can't deny it's been a while since it used anything besides Energy Ball. [[User:Watchermark|Watchermark]] 00:17, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
::::My comment is for Missingno., if you're unaware. [[User:Tc26/Anime Predictions|tc]][[User:Tc26|²₆]][[User talk:Tc26|tc]][[User:Tc26/Sandbox|26]] 00:40, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
:::::So was mine [[User:Watchermark|Watchermark]] 09:50, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

== Changing the Evolution Banner! ==

DP166 Preview just aired and I was right about the evolution. It's set to happen in this episode. Time to change it please. [[User:BAC510]] 19:34 February 25, 2010 (UTC)

not yet we have to wait till the episode airs don't ask me why that's just the rules--[[User:Grungle7|Grungle7]] 20:14, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
: That's not what BAC510 was referring to, he was referring to the banner it needs to be changed so it says "There is evidence this Pokemon will evolve in DP166, and will be unprotected when DP166 airs on March 4 2010" or something like that. He wasn't saying the page itself should be updated just the evolution banner.--[[User:Dman dustin|Dman dustin]] 22:05, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

==Grotle Will Evolve In DP 166?==

I just watched a preview of DP166. It showed Grotle evolving.
{{unsigned|Empoleon222}}
:Cool beans. But we're still waiting until it airs. For all we know they could be trolling and the whole glowing bit is just an epic new move, not an evolution. [[User:Umeko|梅子]][[User talk:Umeko|❄]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|❅]] 04:11, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
::I agree with you (ume) that we should wait until it airs (''For all we know they could be trolling and the whole glowing bit is just an epic new move, not an evolution?'' Lol, now that was very funny :D). --♫♪[[User:Adyniz|'''Ady''']][[User talk:Adyniz|'''Niz''']]♪♫ 04:29, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
:::We have to wait, can't change it because it's still a Grotle. --[[User:HoennMaster|Hoenn]][[User talk:HoennMaster|Master]] 05:38, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
:::: How about now? It's been around 2 hours or so, and the article is still protected. --[[User:Dman dustin|Dman dustin]] 12:25, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
:::::I think admins are waiting for a good image for torterra. {{unsigned|Adyniz}}

== Type Advantage against Luxray...? ==

"In DP166, Grotle was used in Ash's first Gym battle against Volkner's Luxray where, despite the type-advantage"

Grotle doesn't have a type advantage against Electric-types, it's only a Grass-type.[[User:Grei|Grei]] 03:19, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
:And {{type2|Grass}} are resistant to {{type2|Electric}} attacks, hence a type advantage. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] [[User talk:Werdnae|(talk)]] 03:51, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
::"Type advantage" suggests that Grotle's type can trump Luxray's. Wouldn't something like, "despite not having a type-disadvantage" be better, or maybe even an omission of that part entirely? [[User:Grei|Grei]] 02:12, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Ash's Torterra

2010-03-10T02:12:19Z

Grei: /* Type Advantage against Luxray...? */

==Route 203?==

How is this possible when:
1.) Buenary was caught a few episodes later on route 202 where they started and Ash caught Starly.
2.) They haven't been through Jubilife city yet, and route 203 is on the opposite side.
Sorry, but this is just not possible. ~GT4GTR

The Anime is '''''DIFFRENT''''' than the games. n00b.
[[User:Crystallucario|'''''Crystal''''']] [[User talk:Crystallucario|'''''Lucario''''']] 12:00, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
:Good question. I'll look into it more. And Crystallucario, lay off. He only asked a question. --'''[[User:Theryguy512|Theryguy]][[User talk:Theryguy512|5]][[User:Theryguy512/Contribution Page|1]][[User:Theryguy512/Similarities|2]]''' 12:04, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Yeah Crystal, you dont just yell at someone that's asking a question[[User:Shinylucario|'''''Shiny''''']] [[User talk:Shinylucario|'''''Lucario''''']] 12:15, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, and i'm only a 14 year old kid. ~GT4GTR
:Well, just remember, this is the same anime that says {{rt|24}} leads to [[Vermilion City]]. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]][[Image:Ani155MS.gif|Fire echy]]''' 06:41, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
::Yea. And the same anime where {{Ash}} is able to carry an 100-pound {{p|Hippopotas}} on top of his head with the slightest of ease... --'''[[User:Theryguy512|Theryguy]][[User talk:Theryguy512|5]][[User:Theryguy512/Contribution Page|1]][[User:Theryguy512/Similarities|2]]''' 11:58, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
<.<' whoa I'm only 12 almost 13...
[[User:Crystallucario|'''''Crystal''''']] [[User talk:Crystallucario|'''''Lucario''''']] 12:03, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Okay, so the anime is different, but still, how did route 203 come up? Did anyone say route 203? ~GT4GTR

You were the one who brought it up. ''YOU'' tell ''ME''. Sorry I was so rude...just then. Let's be friends![[User:DaPikanator56|DaPikanator56]] 00:48, 31 March 2008 (UTC)DaPikanator56

I know this is old, but it still says route 203. I didn't bring it up, it says it ON THE PAGE. Is there an proof that he was caught on route 203? ([[User:GT4GTR|GT4GTR]] 10:41, 21 October 2008 (UTC))

:Considering that two episodes before it we have proof that Sato-tachi were on Route 202, and it's not until 5 episodes later that they get to Kotobuki City, I would assume that Neatle was caught on Route 202, not Route 203. Unfortunately, the 10th Movie map gives no little evidence on where Neatle was caught, because it doesn't have a subtitle beneath it where it appears. Since neither Route 202 or Route 203 are mentioned, there isn't an official statement that they are on either when Neatle is caught. However, it seems much more likely to assume that they are on Route 202, than our assumption of Route 203. Of course, we can't go about and change this all until he becomes Satoshi's Hayashigame, can we? [[User:Kumori Satosuke|Satosuke]] 13:30, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

== Protect Until October 30th ==

There have already been several speculative edits and reverts over the topic of a possible evolution in [[DP100]]. Shouldn't this page be protected until October 30th? [[User:Kumori Satosuke|Satosuke]] 14:08, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
:The evolution has now been confirmed but our policy is to not move the article until the episode airs. Yeah, the protection should stick. --[[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] |[[User talk:Fabu-Vinny|Talk Page]]| 16:48, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Why was the protection banner removed? It said because it spoils the episode, but so what? Plenty of other pokémon articles have used this, such as May's pokémon when she returned for the Wallace Cup, so why can't the banner be used now?

--[[User:HoennMaster|--HoennMaster]] 16:51, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
:That banner just said there was a chance that something happens to Turtwig. But we now know what exactly happens so the banner has no use there. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 16:54, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
::SOme people just don't like spoilers anyway--[[Bulbapedia:Project Custom Sprite|☆]][[User:Tavisource|Tavis]][[User talk:Tavisource|ource]] 16:54, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
:::And who's to say this isn't its final appearance? Remember, the banner said "evolve and/or leave". Given many different Turtwig, Grotle, and Torterra appear in this episode, it's possible we could have an [[Ash's Pidgeot]]-like situation on our hands, and we don't want people putting that in like it was confirmed. Remember, {{TP|Ash|Chimchar}} is Ash's signature traditional elemental starter in [[Generation IV]]--and this would probably be the biggest and best way to send Turtwig off. I mean, if the writers had planned on making Turtwig Ash's signature elemental starter, Chimchar would either be in Brock's hands or still under Paul's control right now. --[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 20:39, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

So? We had pictures of May's Wartortle from the Wallace Cup and there was still a banner saying it might evolve.

--[[User:HoennMaster|--HoennMaster]] 17:40, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
:Probably because there was still a chance at the time of the revelation that it could be seen onscreen evolving--even in the episode where Wartortle was first confirmed to appear evolved. --[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 20:39, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Ok...but that still doesn't say anything about why the banner was removed here.

--[[User:HoennMaster|--HoennMaster]] 20:42, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

:Probably because {{u|Kenji-girl}} is paranoid. --[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 20:44, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
::Scuse me. I'm not paranoid. You the ones who told be we don't mention anything until the episode airs. Isn't that what the banner is doing? We did the same thing for Ash's Chimchar for like a month and it wasn't even evolving. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 06:13, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
:::"evindence that the subject of this article '''''may''''' evolve or leave." We don't mention anything, regarding of course, the fact of the evolution in the article itself, as if it's already happened, however, this banner warns users that an evolution may occur and to be careful handling information related to it, as rumors may be flying around. The banner exists to tell users "Yes we know it's likely evolving, keep your pants on about it until the episode airs because the rule is "as of the most recent Japanese episode". It's not that the rule is that we can't acknowledge the fact, it's that we don't move anything until it happens. It's why I comment that stuff out. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 06:32, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
::::!!!!it alredy evolved check www.serebii.net and look at ash''s bio,....it evolved before dp100 so ur speculations were wrong [[User:Ritchie|Ritchie]]

yes hes right....kinda. serebii did say turtwig evolved and they even have a pic of ash and grotle, but it still said it evolved in Turtwig, Grotle.....Torterra!? or whatever its called [[User:Happizelpom|Happi]][[User talk:Happizelpom|zel]][[Special:Contributions/Happizelpom|pom]] 13:35, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
:It was also my idea about the "until it airs" thing, and I previews ARE OFFICIAL.--[[Bulbapedia:Project Custom Sprite|☆]][[User:Tavisource|Tavis]][[User talk:Tavisource|ource]] 23:11, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
You guys need to read, it even says on the main page that it contains spoilers for '''NEXT WEEK'S''' episode.

--[[User:HoennMaster|--HoennMaster]] 14:08, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

:man just go to serebii and find out for urself. they usually update stuff before bulba and even if it says NEXT WEEK, it already happened..i guess he just got a preview pic or someting..[[User:Ritchie|Ritchie]]
:::Ritchie's right. Its on serebii, and I think we can rely on it. DP099 already aired and got some episode preview for DP100.. isn't that enough proof?--'''[[User:Kevzo8|keb]][[User_talk:Kevzo8|s.]]''' 14:06, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Seriously does anyone here know how to read? Yes, it comes from the episode preview, but turtwig won't evolve until next week as it says on Serebii.

--[[User:HoennMaster|--HoennMaster]] 14:08, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

oh, I get it. imaiso{{tt|*|sorry.}}. --'''[[User:Kevzo8|keb]][[User_talk:Kevzo8|s.]]''' 14:21, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
:Preview = didn't happen yet, folks. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 21:09, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
::ye but thats the points of a preview. u find out what happenes before hand , eurging u to watch it. so now we know he gets a grotle. thats final [[User:Blazinhariison|Blazinhariison]]
:::so tte, your basically saying a preview is wrong??? [[User:Ritchie|Ritchie]]
::::i think u mean that "it may be a preview but hte episode didnt air", however tte the preview is FROM the episode and it just showed us what WILL happen...P.S. im also ritchie lol [[User:Blazinhariison|Blazinhariison]]

Please sign your comments with the time stamp of the four tildes. That being said, it's also possible that Grotle could evolve again, leave later in the episode; we just DON'T KNOW. That's why we don't jump the gun and put in information that COULD be false. Yes, we know that Turtwig is going to evolve at least once. We've known this with a high percentage of certainty for a while now. But, we cannot post it until we know just what happens next week. Serebii doesn't know what happens in the next episode, only what was shown in the preview. So we cannot post it as if it were true unless we know the full truth of the matter. [[User:Kumori Satosuke|Satosuke]] 23:43, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

yay it evolved!

==95/96==

Why do people keep chaning this to 95? It appears debuts in DP005 so that makes it 96. --[[User:HoennMaster|Hoenn]][[User talk:HoennMaster|Master]] 03:52, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
: Try 100-5= 95 :3...... It actually does evolve 95 episodes after its capture. --[[User:Force Fire|Force]] [[User talk:Force Fire|Fire]] 03:56, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
::How the heck does anyone get that 5 + 96 = 100... Math refresher course for everyone. 95 episodes makes it the same amount as Grovyle's into Scepty, too. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 04:12, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

I know how to do Math, but 95 is wrong. It may evolve 95 episodes later, but it still appears as a Turtwig in 96 episodes. --[[User:HoennMaster|Hoenn]][[User talk:HoennMaster|Master]] 04:15, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
:That's the point. It evolved 95 episodes later. It's not how many episodes it appeared as a Turtwig in, otherwise we'd have Brock's Steelix taking 5 episodes to evolve. Seriously, how often did that thing appear? '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 04:38, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
:: I know there's a particular way to count. For Example: How many days until saturday? Since today is Saturday, and if we include Saturday in the count it would be eight days (Sat, Sun, Mon, Tue, Wen, Thu, Fri, and Sat) even though it's only supposed to seven days. But we don't do that in math (start from a certain digit and include the same digit in the math). In math it's always the next "digit" that counts when we start from "something" (like "1" we start from "0" but we don't include it). Another example, 5+5 is 10 but we don't count the first 5 as part of the equation, the count continues on 6. HoennMaster if we did it your way 5+5 would equal 11 not 10. So the same thing applies to Turtwig's evolution count. It's debut episode basically doesn't count in the equation since it's the "something" we start from in the count. We start with DP06 as "1" not DP05 "0"--[[User:Dman dustin|Dman dustin]] 09:03, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

I don't need a math lesson, I know full well how to do Math. Also, I don't need a million people telling me the same thing. Redundancy is not good. --[[User:HoennMaster|Hoenn]][[User talk:HoennMaster|Master]] 10:36, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
: Yeah well and you don't need to take it offensively. Why the hell do people get offended, when people are trying to help them? --[[User:Dman dustin|Dman dustin]] 12:35, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

==rock climb==
what does it mean by "Grotle surpassed its own limits and learned rock climb through its willpower alone" dont all pokemon do that? [[User:Happizelpom|Happi]][[User talk:Happizelpom|zel]][[Special:Contributions/Happizelpom|pom]] 03:41, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

== Why!!!! ==

I want some reason that why this picture is horrible.
[[Image:Ash's Grotle 2.png|240px]]
I think the general theory is that if it has the Trainer in the photo, it's clearly the Trainer's Pokémon and this picture is clearly proving that Ash is the trainer of this grotle.
So i think this is the right picture for this article.
If you guys still feel that it is a horrible picture then please give me some reasons.
--♫♪[[User:Adyniz|'''Ady''']][[User talk:Adyniz|'''niz''']]♪♫ 03:57, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
:It's called blurry... [[User:Ht14|''ht'']][[User talk:Ht14|''14'']] 03:58, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
::You beat me to it... but then again, I wasn't on late enough to see this. [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|R.A. Hunter B.]] 21:03, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
:::And also...it's better HD.--[[Bulbapedia:Project Custom Sprite|☆]][[User:Tavisource|Tavis]][[User talk:Tavisource|ource]] 02:19, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

==Overgrow?==
Did Ash's Grotle use Overgrow in DP141? Just need this clarified, since I would have to wait until the episode is dubbed. --[[User:Rockersk08|rock]][[User talk:Rockersk08|ersk]][[Special:Contributions/Rockersk08|08]] 00:48, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
:Yes. --♫♪[[User:Adyniz|'''Ady''']][[User talk:Adyniz|'''niz''']]♪♫ 01:02, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
:: Thanks. I just needed clarification because some don't believe so. But the only way to be positive is for the English dub. Thanks anyway. --[[User:Rockersk08|rock]][[User talk:Rockersk08|ersk]][[Special:Contributions/Rockersk08|08]] 01:04, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
:::My pleasure. --♫♪[[User:Adyniz|'''Ady''']][[User talk:Adyniz|'''niz''']]♪♫ 01:07, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
If this is true, then why is it still unknown in the ability box? (just curious) --[[User:Wytsalvy|wytsalvy]] 17:24, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
:Because it was proven that it wasn't overgrow, but Grotle being powered up. [[User:Turtwig A|Turt]][[wig]] [[Turtwig (Pokémon)|A]] ([[User talk:Turtwig A|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|contribs]]) 17:50, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

== SolarBeam? ==

When did that happen? I didn't see it use SolarBeam. Though the video was very glitchy. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 03:09, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
::That would be because it didn't learn solarbeam and people are just making it up. --DSDark 04:11, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
:::It didn't learned Solar Beam. I watched the whole episode clearly. --♫♪[[User:Adyniz|'''Ady''']][[User talk:Adyniz|'''niz''']]♪♫ 09:06, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

== A Move Improvised? ==

Isnt Grotle eating its Energy Ball in some way a move improvised? [[User: BAC510]] 00:08, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

== Evolution Protection ==

''[[The Greatest - Everyday!]]'' has heavily implied that Grotle is soon to evolve (basically Torterra appeared alongside Ash's Pokémon while Grotle was missing), so this page needs to be protected from the 'jumping the gun'ers out there. [[User:Watchermark|Watchermark]] 11:20, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
:It is. - [[User:Kogoro|'''<sc>Kogoro</sc>''']] '''|''' [[User talk:Kogoro|'''<sc>Talk to me</sc>''']] - 11:26, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
::Until then, I propose that this bumper be used. - ''[[User:Chosen|Chosen]] of [[User talk:Chosen|Mana]]''[[User:Chosen|-]] 16:06, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
::<nowiki>{{EpiProtect|evolve}}</nowiki>

== Ability is missing ==

{{P|Turtwig}} and its evolution family only have one ability; an ability shared with the rest of the starters. PLease add it. - [[User:050294|050294]] 00:42, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
:We have a policy that states that the abilities of anime Pokémon are only put in the article when it is literally said in the anime. Grotle's ability hasn't been explicitly said to be Overgrow, so we cannot add it in. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 00:46, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

== DP166 Evolution Possibility ==

I checked through serebiinetforums and a User there posted a new summary from the TVtokyo Site, with the text translating to:'Sunyshore Tower Hijacked!? The key to the solution is Torterra!?' The template on Grotle's Page should show DP166 as its possible evolution episode. Thanks. [[User:BAC510]] 09:19 February 19, 2010 (UTC)
:I know, I checked TV Tokyo myself and it is '''MENTIONED''' there. I am 10000% sure that Ash's Grotle is going to evolve in DP166 but we should wait for the episode before doing anything crazy/speculated. --♫♪[[User:Adyniz|'''Ady''']][[User talk:Adyniz|'''Niz''']]♪♫ 09:22, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
::Guess what? Wait.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F''']][[Ho-Oh (Pokémon)|orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F''']][[Lugia (Pokémon)|ire]] 10:40, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
:::Exactly. --♫♪[[User:Adyniz|'''Ady''']][[User talk:Adyniz|'''Niz''']]♪♫ 10:48, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
::::I think this user is saying to change the banner so that it shows DP166 as when it may evolve, meaning the template at the top should say this: <nowiki>{{EpiProtect|evolve|DP166|March 4, 2010}}</nowiki> [[User:Turtwig A|Turt]][[wig]] [[Turtwig (Pokémon)|A]] ([[User talk:Turtwig A|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|contribs]]) 12:37, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
::::: Personally I'm still hesitant with the new information, I think we should wait for possibly a new summary of the episode, before changing the banner. With Infernape it was obvious, but this is a little more difficult to buy, true Grotle could evolve in DP166 as the small summary seems to imply, but still not quite convincing. If it's changed fine, but I still feel hesitant to say with "Banner" certainty. --[[User:Dman dustin|Dman dustin]] 12:42, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
:::::: I think that the mere mention of a Pokemon that happens to evolve from something the main characters own isn't enough to warrant that banner. However, when said main character's Pokemon is confirmed to be evolving sometime in the near future in any case, that's a different story. - ''unsigned comment from [[User:Missingno. Master|Missingno. Master]] ([[User talk:Missingno. Master|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Missingno._Master|contribs]])'' 21:18, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

== Recently used move(s) ==

As Grotle appeared in [[DP164]] but only used Energy Ball I think that Razor Leaf, Synthesis and Rock Climb should no longer be considered as recently used moves (as it hasn't used any of them since [[DP144]]). [[User:Watchermark|Watchermark]] 15:01, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
:Does it even matter which moves were used most recently? I think the last contest episode proved that Pokémon in the anime are not limited to four moves at a time! Ursula's Plusle and Minun each used Charge, Discharge, Encore, Spark, Helping Hand, and Charge Beam. That's six, count 'em, six moves! - ''unsigned comment from [[User:Missingno. Master|Missingno. Master]] ([[User talk:Missingno. Master|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Missingno._Master|contribs]])'' 21:15, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
::Not the point of the recent moves thing. [[User:Tc26/Anime Predictions|tc]][[User:Tc26|²₆]][[User talk:Tc26|tc]][[User:Tc26/Sandbox|26]] 00:08, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
:::It may not matter what moves were used recently, but it is still noted. Besides, usually when a main character's Pokémon learns a new move an old one is phased out (look at Pikachu, he's never used Thunder after learning Volt Tackle). Fair enough Grotle hasn't learned anything new recently, but you can't deny it's been a while since it used anything besides Energy Ball. [[User:Watchermark|Watchermark]] 00:17, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
::::My comment is for Missingno., if you're unaware. [[User:Tc26/Anime Predictions|tc]][[User:Tc26|²₆]][[User talk:Tc26|tc]][[User:Tc26/Sandbox|26]] 00:40, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
:::::So was mine [[User:Watchermark|Watchermark]] 09:50, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

== Changing the Evolution Banner! ==

DP166 Preview just aired and I was right about the evolution. It's set to happen in this episode. Time to change it please. [[User:BAC510]] 19:34 February 25, 2010 (UTC)

not yet we have to wait till the episode airs don't ask me why that's just the rules--[[User:Grungle7|Grungle7]] 20:14, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
: That's not what BAC510 was referring to, he was referring to the banner it needs to be changed so it says "There is evidence this Pokemon will evolve in DP166, and will be unprotected when DP166 airs on March 4 2010" or something like that. He wasn't saying the page itself should be updated just the evolution banner.--[[User:Dman dustin|Dman dustin]] 22:05, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

==Grotle Will Evolve In DP 166?==

I just watched a preview of DP166. It showed Grotle evolving.
{{unsigned|Empoleon222}}
:Cool beans. But we're still waiting until it airs. For all we know they could be trolling and the whole glowing bit is just an epic new move, not an evolution. [[User:Umeko|梅子]][[User talk:Umeko|❄]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|❅]] 04:11, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
::I agree with you (ume) that we should wait until it airs (''For all we know they could be trolling and the whole glowing bit is just an epic new move, not an evolution?'' Lol, now that was very funny :D). --♫♪[[User:Adyniz|'''Ady''']][[User talk:Adyniz|'''Niz''']]♪♫ 04:29, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
:::We have to wait, can't change it because it's still a Grotle. --[[User:HoennMaster|Hoenn]][[User talk:HoennMaster|Master]] 05:38, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
:::: How about now? It's been around 2 hours or so, and the article is still protected. --[[User:Dman dustin|Dman dustin]] 12:25, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
:::::I think admins are waiting for a good image for torterra. {{unsigned|Adyniz}}

== Type Advantage against Luxray...? ==

"In DP166, Grotle was used in Ash's first Gym battle against Volkner's Luxray where, despite the type-advantage"

Grotle doesn't have a type advantage against Electric-types, it's only a Grass-type.[[User:Grei|Grei]] 03:19, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
:And {{type2|Grass}} are resistant to {{type2|Electric}} attacks, hence a type advantage. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] [[User talk:Werdnae|(talk)]] 03:51, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
::"Type advantage" suggests that Grotle's type can trump Luxray's. Wouldn't something like, "despite not having a type-disadvantage" be better, or maybe even an omission of that part entirely?[[User:Grei|Grei]] 02:12, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Ash's Torterra

2010-03-08T03:19:49Z

Grei: /* Type Advantage against Luxray...? */ new section

==Route 203?==

How is this possible when:
1.) Buenary was caught a few episodes later on route 202 where they started and Ash caught Starly.
2.) They haven't been through Jubilife city yet, and route 203 is on the opposite side.
Sorry, but this is just not possible. ~GT4GTR

The Anime is '''''DIFFRENT''''' than the games. n00b.
[[User:Crystallucario|'''''Crystal''''']] [[User talk:Crystallucario|'''''Lucario''''']] 12:00, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
:Good question. I'll look into it more. And Crystallucario, lay off. He only asked a question. --'''[[User:Theryguy512|Theryguy]][[User talk:Theryguy512|5]][[User:Theryguy512/Contribution Page|1]][[User:Theryguy512/Similarities|2]]''' 12:04, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Yeah Crystal, you dont just yell at someone that's asking a question[[User:Shinylucario|'''''Shiny''''']] [[User talk:Shinylucario|'''''Lucario''''']] 12:15, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, and i'm only a 14 year old kid. ~GT4GTR
:Well, just remember, this is the same anime that says {{rt|24}} leads to [[Vermilion City]]. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]][[Image:Ani155MS.gif|Fire echy]]''' 06:41, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
::Yea. And the same anime where {{Ash}} is able to carry an 100-pound {{p|Hippopotas}} on top of his head with the slightest of ease... --'''[[User:Theryguy512|Theryguy]][[User talk:Theryguy512|5]][[User:Theryguy512/Contribution Page|1]][[User:Theryguy512/Similarities|2]]''' 11:58, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
<.<' whoa I'm only 12 almost 13...
[[User:Crystallucario|'''''Crystal''''']] [[User talk:Crystallucario|'''''Lucario''''']] 12:03, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Okay, so the anime is different, but still, how did route 203 come up? Did anyone say route 203? ~GT4GTR

You were the one who brought it up. ''YOU'' tell ''ME''. Sorry I was so rude...just then. Let's be friends![[User:DaPikanator56|DaPikanator56]] 00:48, 31 March 2008 (UTC)DaPikanator56

I know this is old, but it still says route 203. I didn't bring it up, it says it ON THE PAGE. Is there an proof that he was caught on route 203? ([[User:GT4GTR|GT4GTR]] 10:41, 21 October 2008 (UTC))

:Considering that two episodes before it we have proof that Sato-tachi were on Route 202, and it's not until 5 episodes later that they get to Kotobuki City, I would assume that Neatle was caught on Route 202, not Route 203. Unfortunately, the 10th Movie map gives no little evidence on where Neatle was caught, because it doesn't have a subtitle beneath it where it appears. Since neither Route 202 or Route 203 are mentioned, there isn't an official statement that they are on either when Neatle is caught. However, it seems much more likely to assume that they are on Route 202, than our assumption of Route 203. Of course, we can't go about and change this all until he becomes Satoshi's Hayashigame, can we? [[User:Kumori Satosuke|Satosuke]] 13:30, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

== Protect Until October 30th ==

There have already been several speculative edits and reverts over the topic of a possible evolution in [[DP100]]. Shouldn't this page be protected until October 30th? [[User:Kumori Satosuke|Satosuke]] 14:08, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
:The evolution has now been confirmed but our policy is to not move the article until the episode airs. Yeah, the protection should stick. --[[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] |[[User talk:Fabu-Vinny|Talk Page]]| 16:48, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Why was the protection banner removed? It said because it spoils the episode, but so what? Plenty of other pokémon articles have used this, such as May's pokémon when she returned for the Wallace Cup, so why can't the banner be used now?

--[[User:HoennMaster|--HoennMaster]] 16:51, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
:That banner just said there was a chance that something happens to Turtwig. But we now know what exactly happens so the banner has no use there. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 16:54, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
::SOme people just don't like spoilers anyway--[[Bulbapedia:Project Custom Sprite|☆]][[User:Tavisource|Tavis]][[User talk:Tavisource|ource]] 16:54, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
:::And who's to say this isn't its final appearance? Remember, the banner said "evolve and/or leave". Given many different Turtwig, Grotle, and Torterra appear in this episode, it's possible we could have an [[Ash's Pidgeot]]-like situation on our hands, and we don't want people putting that in like it was confirmed. Remember, {{TP|Ash|Chimchar}} is Ash's signature traditional elemental starter in [[Generation IV]]--and this would probably be the biggest and best way to send Turtwig off. I mean, if the writers had planned on making Turtwig Ash's signature elemental starter, Chimchar would either be in Brock's hands or still under Paul's control right now. --[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 20:39, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

So? We had pictures of May's Wartortle from the Wallace Cup and there was still a banner saying it might evolve.

--[[User:HoennMaster|--HoennMaster]] 17:40, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
:Probably because there was still a chance at the time of the revelation that it could be seen onscreen evolving--even in the episode where Wartortle was first confirmed to appear evolved. --[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 20:39, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Ok...but that still doesn't say anything about why the banner was removed here.

--[[User:HoennMaster|--HoennMaster]] 20:42, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

:Probably because {{u|Kenji-girl}} is paranoid. --[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 20:44, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
::Scuse me. I'm not paranoid. You the ones who told be we don't mention anything until the episode airs. Isn't that what the banner is doing? We did the same thing for Ash's Chimchar for like a month and it wasn't even evolving. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 06:13, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
:::"evindence that the subject of this article '''''may''''' evolve or leave." We don't mention anything, regarding of course, the fact of the evolution in the article itself, as if it's already happened, however, this banner warns users that an evolution may occur and to be careful handling information related to it, as rumors may be flying around. The banner exists to tell users "Yes we know it's likely evolving, keep your pants on about it until the episode airs because the rule is "as of the most recent Japanese episode". It's not that the rule is that we can't acknowledge the fact, it's that we don't move anything until it happens. It's why I comment that stuff out. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 06:32, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
::::!!!!it alredy evolved check www.serebii.net and look at ash''s bio,....it evolved before dp100 so ur speculations were wrong [[User:Ritchie|Ritchie]]

yes hes right....kinda. serebii did say turtwig evolved and they even have a pic of ash and grotle, but it still said it evolved in Turtwig, Grotle.....Torterra!? or whatever its called [[User:Happizelpom|Happi]][[User talk:Happizelpom|zel]][[Special:Contributions/Happizelpom|pom]] 13:35, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
:It was also my idea about the "until it airs" thing, and I previews ARE OFFICIAL.--[[Bulbapedia:Project Custom Sprite|☆]][[User:Tavisource|Tavis]][[User talk:Tavisource|ource]] 23:11, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
You guys need to read, it even says on the main page that it contains spoilers for '''NEXT WEEK'S''' episode.

--[[User:HoennMaster|--HoennMaster]] 14:08, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

:man just go to serebii and find out for urself. they usually update stuff before bulba and even if it says NEXT WEEK, it already happened..i guess he just got a preview pic or someting..[[User:Ritchie|Ritchie]]
:::Ritchie's right. Its on serebii, and I think we can rely on it. DP099 already aired and got some episode preview for DP100.. isn't that enough proof?--'''[[User:Kevzo8|keb]][[User_talk:Kevzo8|s.]]''' 14:06, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Seriously does anyone here know how to read? Yes, it comes from the episode preview, but turtwig won't evolve until next week as it says on Serebii.

--[[User:HoennMaster|--HoennMaster]] 14:08, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

oh, I get it. imaiso{{tt|*|sorry.}}. --'''[[User:Kevzo8|keb]][[User_talk:Kevzo8|s.]]''' 14:21, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
:Preview = didn't happen yet, folks. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 21:09, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
::ye but thats the points of a preview. u find out what happenes before hand , eurging u to watch it. so now we know he gets a grotle. thats final [[User:Blazinhariison|Blazinhariison]]
:::so tte, your basically saying a preview is wrong??? [[User:Ritchie|Ritchie]]
::::i think u mean that "it may be a preview but hte episode didnt air", however tte the preview is FROM the episode and it just showed us what WILL happen...P.S. im also ritchie lol [[User:Blazinhariison|Blazinhariison]]

Please sign your comments with the time stamp of the four tildes. That being said, it's also possible that Grotle could evolve again, leave later in the episode; we just DON'T KNOW. That's why we don't jump the gun and put in information that COULD be false. Yes, we know that Turtwig is going to evolve at least once. We've known this with a high percentage of certainty for a while now. But, we cannot post it until we know just what happens next week. Serebii doesn't know what happens in the next episode, only what was shown in the preview. So we cannot post it as if it were true unless we know the full truth of the matter. [[User:Kumori Satosuke|Satosuke]] 23:43, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

yay it evolved!

==95/96==

Why do people keep chaning this to 95? It appears debuts in DP005 so that makes it 96. --[[User:HoennMaster|Hoenn]][[User talk:HoennMaster|Master]] 03:52, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
: Try 100-5= 95 :3...... It actually does evolve 95 episodes after its capture. --[[User:Force Fire|Force]] [[User talk:Force Fire|Fire]] 03:56, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
::How the heck does anyone get that 5 + 96 = 100... Math refresher course for everyone. 95 episodes makes it the same amount as Grovyle's into Scepty, too. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 04:12, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

I know how to do Math, but 95 is wrong. It may evolve 95 episodes later, but it still appears as a Turtwig in 96 episodes. --[[User:HoennMaster|Hoenn]][[User talk:HoennMaster|Master]] 04:15, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
:That's the point. It evolved 95 episodes later. It's not how many episodes it appeared as a Turtwig in, otherwise we'd have Brock's Steelix taking 5 episodes to evolve. Seriously, how often did that thing appear? '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 04:38, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
:: I know there's a particular way to count. For Example: How many days until saturday? Since today is Saturday, and if we include Saturday in the count it would be eight days (Sat, Sun, Mon, Tue, Wen, Thu, Fri, and Sat) even though it's only supposed to seven days. But we don't do that in math (start from a certain digit and include the same digit in the math). In math it's always the next "digit" that counts when we start from "something" (like "1" we start from "0" but we don't include it). Another example, 5+5 is 10 but we don't count the first 5 as part of the equation, the count continues on 6. HoennMaster if we did it your way 5+5 would equal 11 not 10. So the same thing applies to Turtwig's evolution count. It's debut episode basically doesn't count in the equation since it's the "something" we start from in the count. We start with DP06 as "1" not DP05 "0"--[[User:Dman dustin|Dman dustin]] 09:03, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

I don't need a math lesson, I know full well how to do Math. Also, I don't need a million people telling me the same thing. Redundancy is not good. --[[User:HoennMaster|Hoenn]][[User talk:HoennMaster|Master]] 10:36, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
: Yeah well and you don't need to take it offensively. Why the hell do people get offended, when people are trying to help them? --[[User:Dman dustin|Dman dustin]] 12:35, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

==rock climb==
what does it mean by "Grotle surpassed its own limits and learned rock climb through its willpower alone" dont all pokemon do that? [[User:Happizelpom|Happi]][[User talk:Happizelpom|zel]][[Special:Contributions/Happizelpom|pom]] 03:41, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

== Why!!!! ==

I want some reason that why this picture is horrible.
[[Image:Ash's Grotle 2.png|240px]]
I think the general theory is that if it has the Trainer in the photo, it's clearly the Trainer's Pokémon and this picture is clearly proving that Ash is the trainer of this grotle.
So i think this is the right picture for this article.
If you guys still feel that it is a horrible picture then please give me some reasons.
--♫♪[[User:Adyniz|'''Ady''']][[User talk:Adyniz|'''niz''']]♪♫ 03:57, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
:It's called blurry... [[User:Ht14|''ht'']][[User talk:Ht14|''14'']] 03:58, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
::You beat me to it... but then again, I wasn't on late enough to see this. [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|R.A. Hunter B.]] 21:03, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
:::And also...it's better HD.--[[Bulbapedia:Project Custom Sprite|☆]][[User:Tavisource|Tavis]][[User talk:Tavisource|ource]] 02:19, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

==Overgrow?==
Did Ash's Grotle use Overgrow in DP141? Just need this clarified, since I would have to wait until the episode is dubbed. --[[User:Rockersk08|rock]][[User talk:Rockersk08|ersk]][[Special:Contributions/Rockersk08|08]] 00:48, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
:Yes. --♫♪[[User:Adyniz|'''Ady''']][[User talk:Adyniz|'''niz''']]♪♫ 01:02, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
:: Thanks. I just needed clarification because some don't believe so. But the only way to be positive is for the English dub. Thanks anyway. --[[User:Rockersk08|rock]][[User talk:Rockersk08|ersk]][[Special:Contributions/Rockersk08|08]] 01:04, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
:::My pleasure. --♫♪[[User:Adyniz|'''Ady''']][[User talk:Adyniz|'''niz''']]♪♫ 01:07, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
If this is true, then why is it still unknown in the ability box? (just curious) --[[User:Wytsalvy|wytsalvy]] 17:24, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
:Because it was proven that it wasn't overgrow, but Grotle being powered up. [[User:Turtwig A|Turt]][[wig]] [[Turtwig (Pokémon)|A]] ([[User talk:Turtwig A|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|contribs]]) 17:50, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

== SolarBeam? ==

When did that happen? I didn't see it use SolarBeam. Though the video was very glitchy. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 03:09, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
::That would be because it didn't learn solarbeam and people are just making it up. --DSDark 04:11, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
:::It didn't learned Solar Beam. I watched the whole episode clearly. --♫♪[[User:Adyniz|'''Ady''']][[User talk:Adyniz|'''niz''']]♪♫ 09:06, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

== A Move Improvised? ==

Isnt Grotle eating its Energy Ball in some way a move improvised? [[User: BAC510]] 00:08, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

== Evolution Protection ==

''[[The Greatest - Everyday!]]'' has heavily implied that Grotle is soon to evolve (basically Torterra appeared alongside Ash's Pokémon while Grotle was missing), so this page needs to be protected from the 'jumping the gun'ers out there. [[User:Watchermark|Watchermark]] 11:20, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
:It is. - [[User:Kogoro|'''<sc>Kogoro</sc>''']] '''|''' [[User talk:Kogoro|'''<sc>Talk to me</sc>''']] - 11:26, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
::Until then, I propose that this bumper be used. - ''[[User:Chosen|Chosen]] of [[User talk:Chosen|Mana]]''[[User:Chosen|-]] 16:06, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
::<nowiki>{{EpiProtect|evolve}}</nowiki>

== Ability is missing ==

{{P|Turtwig}} and its evolution family only have one ability; an ability shared with the rest of the starters. PLease add it. - [[User:050294|050294]] 00:42, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
:We have a policy that states that the abilities of anime Pokémon are only put in the article when it is literally said in the anime. Grotle's ability hasn't been explicitly said to be Overgrow, so we cannot add it in. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 00:46, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

== DP166 Evolution Possibility ==

I checked through serebiinetforums and a User there posted a new summary from the TVtokyo Site, with the text translating to:'Sunyshore Tower Hijacked!? The key to the solution is Torterra!?' The template on Grotle's Page should show DP166 as its possible evolution episode. Thanks. [[User:BAC510]] 09:19 February 19, 2010 (UTC)
:I know, I checked TV Tokyo myself and it is '''MENTIONED''' there. I am 10000% sure that Ash's Grotle is going to evolve in DP166 but we should wait for the episode before doing anything crazy/speculated. --♫♪[[User:Adyniz|'''Ady''']][[User talk:Adyniz|'''Niz''']]♪♫ 09:22, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
::Guess what? Wait.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F''']][[Ho-Oh (Pokémon)|orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F''']][[Lugia (Pokémon)|ire]] 10:40, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
:::Exactly. --♫♪[[User:Adyniz|'''Ady''']][[User talk:Adyniz|'''Niz''']]♪♫ 10:48, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
::::I think this user is saying to change the banner so that it shows DP166 as when it may evolve, meaning the template at the top should say this: <nowiki>{{EpiProtect|evolve|DP166|March 4, 2010}}</nowiki> [[User:Turtwig A|Turt]][[wig]] [[Turtwig (Pokémon)|A]] ([[User talk:Turtwig A|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|contribs]]) 12:37, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
::::: Personally I'm still hesitant with the new information, I think we should wait for possibly a new summary of the episode, before changing the banner. With Infernape it was obvious, but this is a little more difficult to buy, true Grotle could evolve in DP166 as the small summary seems to imply, but still not quite convincing. If it's changed fine, but I still feel hesitant to say with "Banner" certainty. --[[User:Dman dustin|Dman dustin]] 12:42, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
:::::: I think that the mere mention of a Pokemon that happens to evolve from something the main characters own isn't enough to warrant that banner. However, when said main character's Pokemon is confirmed to be evolving sometime in the near future in any case, that's a different story. - ''unsigned comment from [[User:Missingno. Master|Missingno. Master]] ([[User talk:Missingno. Master|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Missingno._Master|contribs]])'' 21:18, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

== Recently used move(s) ==

As Grotle appeared in [[DP164]] but only used Energy Ball I think that Razor Leaf, Synthesis and Rock Climb should no longer be considered as recently used moves (as it hasn't used any of them since [[DP144]]). [[User:Watchermark|Watchermark]] 15:01, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
:Does it even matter which moves were used most recently? I think the last contest episode proved that Pokémon in the anime are not limited to four moves at a time! Ursula's Plusle and Minun each used Charge, Discharge, Encore, Spark, Helping Hand, and Charge Beam. That's six, count 'em, six moves! - ''unsigned comment from [[User:Missingno. Master|Missingno. Master]] ([[User talk:Missingno. Master|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Missingno._Master|contribs]])'' 21:15, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
::Not the point of the recent moves thing. [[User:Tc26/Anime Predictions|tc]][[User:Tc26|²₆]][[User talk:Tc26|tc]][[User:Tc26/Sandbox|26]] 00:08, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
:::It may not matter what moves were used recently, but it is still noted. Besides, usually when a main character's Pokémon learns a new move an old one is phased out (look at Pikachu, he's never used Thunder after learning Volt Tackle). Fair enough Grotle hasn't learned anything new recently, but you can't deny it's been a while since it used anything besides Energy Ball. [[User:Watchermark|Watchermark]] 00:17, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
::::My comment is for Missingno., if you're unaware. [[User:Tc26/Anime Predictions|tc]][[User:Tc26|²₆]][[User talk:Tc26|tc]][[User:Tc26/Sandbox|26]] 00:40, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
:::::So was mine [[User:Watchermark|Watchermark]] 09:50, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

== Changing the Evolution Banner! ==

DP166 Preview just aired and I was right about the evolution. It's set to happen in this episode. Time to change it please. [[User:BAC510]] 19:34 February 25, 2010 (UTC)

not yet we have to wait till the episode airs don't ask me why that's just the rules--[[User:Grungle7|Grungle7]] 20:14, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
: That's not what BAC510 was referring to, he was referring to the banner it needs to be changed so it says "There is evidence this Pokemon will evolve in DP166, and will be unprotected when DP166 airs on March 4 2010" or something like that. He wasn't saying the page itself should be updated just the evolution banner.--[[User:Dman dustin|Dman dustin]] 22:05, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

==Grotle Will Evolve In DP 166?==

I just watched a preview of DP166. It showed Grotle evolving.
{{unsigned|Empoleon222}}
:Cool beans. But we're still waiting until it airs. For all we know they could be trolling and the whole glowing bit is just an epic new move, not an evolution. [[User:Umeko|梅子]][[User talk:Umeko|❄]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|❅]] 04:11, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
::I agree with you (ume) that we should wait until it airs (''For all we know they could be trolling and the whole glowing bit is just an epic new move, not an evolution?'' Lol, now that was very funny :D). --♫♪[[User:Adyniz|'''Ady''']][[User talk:Adyniz|'''Niz''']]♪♫ 04:29, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
:::We have to wait, can't change it because it's still a Grotle. --[[User:HoennMaster|Hoenn]][[User talk:HoennMaster|Master]] 05:38, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
:::: How about now? It's been around 2 hours or so, and the article is still protected. --[[User:Dman dustin|Dman dustin]] 12:25, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
:::::I think admins are waiting for a good image for torterra. {{unsigned|Adyniz}}

== Type Advantage against Luxray...? ==

"In DP166, Grotle was used in Ash's first Gym battle against Volkner's Luxray where, despite the type-advantage"

Grotle doesn't have a type advantage against Electric-types, it's only a Grass-type.[[User:Grei|Grei]] 03:19, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Ash's Torterra

2010-03-08T03:18:26Z

Grei: /* Grotle Will Evolve In DP 166? */

==Route 203?==

How is this possible when:
1.) Buenary was caught a few episodes later on route 202 where they started and Ash caught Starly.
2.) They haven't been through Jubilife city yet, and route 203 is on the opposite side.
Sorry, but this is just not possible. ~GT4GTR

The Anime is '''''DIFFRENT''''' than the games. n00b.
[[User:Crystallucario|'''''Crystal''''']] [[User talk:Crystallucario|'''''Lucario''''']] 12:00, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
:Good question. I'll look into it more. And Crystallucario, lay off. He only asked a question. --'''[[User:Theryguy512|Theryguy]][[User talk:Theryguy512|5]][[User:Theryguy512/Contribution Page|1]][[User:Theryguy512/Similarities|2]]''' 12:04, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Yeah Crystal, you dont just yell at someone that's asking a question[[User:Shinylucario|'''''Shiny''''']] [[User talk:Shinylucario|'''''Lucario''''']] 12:15, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, and i'm only a 14 year old kid. ~GT4GTR
:Well, just remember, this is the same anime that says {{rt|24}} leads to [[Vermilion City]]. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]][[Image:Ani155MS.gif|Fire echy]]''' 06:41, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
::Yea. And the same anime where {{Ash}} is able to carry an 100-pound {{p|Hippopotas}} on top of his head with the slightest of ease... --'''[[User:Theryguy512|Theryguy]][[User talk:Theryguy512|5]][[User:Theryguy512/Contribution Page|1]][[User:Theryguy512/Similarities|2]]''' 11:58, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
<.<' whoa I'm only 12 almost 13...
[[User:Crystallucario|'''''Crystal''''']] [[User talk:Crystallucario|'''''Lucario''''']] 12:03, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Okay, so the anime is different, but still, how did route 203 come up? Did anyone say route 203? ~GT4GTR

You were the one who brought it up. ''YOU'' tell ''ME''. Sorry I was so rude...just then. Let's be friends![[User:DaPikanator56|DaPikanator56]] 00:48, 31 March 2008 (UTC)DaPikanator56

I know this is old, but it still says route 203. I didn't bring it up, it says it ON THE PAGE. Is there an proof that he was caught on route 203? ([[User:GT4GTR|GT4GTR]] 10:41, 21 October 2008 (UTC))

:Considering that two episodes before it we have proof that Sato-tachi were on Route 202, and it's not until 5 episodes later that they get to Kotobuki City, I would assume that Neatle was caught on Route 202, not Route 203. Unfortunately, the 10th Movie map gives no little evidence on where Neatle was caught, because it doesn't have a subtitle beneath it where it appears. Since neither Route 202 or Route 203 are mentioned, there isn't an official statement that they are on either when Neatle is caught. However, it seems much more likely to assume that they are on Route 202, than our assumption of Route 203. Of course, we can't go about and change this all until he becomes Satoshi's Hayashigame, can we? [[User:Kumori Satosuke|Satosuke]] 13:30, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

== Protect Until October 30th ==

There have already been several speculative edits and reverts over the topic of a possible evolution in [[DP100]]. Shouldn't this page be protected until October 30th? [[User:Kumori Satosuke|Satosuke]] 14:08, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
:The evolution has now been confirmed but our policy is to not move the article until the episode airs. Yeah, the protection should stick. --[[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] |[[User talk:Fabu-Vinny|Talk Page]]| 16:48, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Why was the protection banner removed? It said because it spoils the episode, but so what? Plenty of other pokémon articles have used this, such as May's pokémon when she returned for the Wallace Cup, so why can't the banner be used now?

--[[User:HoennMaster|--HoennMaster]] 16:51, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
:That banner just said there was a chance that something happens to Turtwig. But we now know what exactly happens so the banner has no use there. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 16:54, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
::SOme people just don't like spoilers anyway--[[Bulbapedia:Project Custom Sprite|☆]][[User:Tavisource|Tavis]][[User talk:Tavisource|ource]] 16:54, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
:::And who's to say this isn't its final appearance? Remember, the banner said "evolve and/or leave". Given many different Turtwig, Grotle, and Torterra appear in this episode, it's possible we could have an [[Ash's Pidgeot]]-like situation on our hands, and we don't want people putting that in like it was confirmed. Remember, {{TP|Ash|Chimchar}} is Ash's signature traditional elemental starter in [[Generation IV]]--and this would probably be the biggest and best way to send Turtwig off. I mean, if the writers had planned on making Turtwig Ash's signature elemental starter, Chimchar would either be in Brock's hands or still under Paul's control right now. --[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 20:39, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

So? We had pictures of May's Wartortle from the Wallace Cup and there was still a banner saying it might evolve.

--[[User:HoennMaster|--HoennMaster]] 17:40, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
:Probably because there was still a chance at the time of the revelation that it could be seen onscreen evolving--even in the episode where Wartortle was first confirmed to appear evolved. --[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 20:39, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Ok...but that still doesn't say anything about why the banner was removed here.

--[[User:HoennMaster|--HoennMaster]] 20:42, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

:Probably because {{u|Kenji-girl}} is paranoid. --[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 20:44, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
::Scuse me. I'm not paranoid. You the ones who told be we don't mention anything until the episode airs. Isn't that what the banner is doing? We did the same thing for Ash's Chimchar for like a month and it wasn't even evolving. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 06:13, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
:::"evindence that the subject of this article '''''may''''' evolve or leave." We don't mention anything, regarding of course, the fact of the evolution in the article itself, as if it's already happened, however, this banner warns users that an evolution may occur and to be careful handling information related to it, as rumors may be flying around. The banner exists to tell users "Yes we know it's likely evolving, keep your pants on about it until the episode airs because the rule is "as of the most recent Japanese episode". It's not that the rule is that we can't acknowledge the fact, it's that we don't move anything until it happens. It's why I comment that stuff out. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 06:32, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
::::!!!!it alredy evolved check www.serebii.net and look at ash''s bio,....it evolved before dp100 so ur speculations were wrong [[User:Ritchie|Ritchie]]

yes hes right....kinda. serebii did say turtwig evolved and they even have a pic of ash and grotle, but it still said it evolved in Turtwig, Grotle.....Torterra!? or whatever its called [[User:Happizelpom|Happi]][[User talk:Happizelpom|zel]][[Special:Contributions/Happizelpom|pom]] 13:35, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
:It was also my idea about the "until it airs" thing, and I previews ARE OFFICIAL.--[[Bulbapedia:Project Custom Sprite|☆]][[User:Tavisource|Tavis]][[User talk:Tavisource|ource]] 23:11, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
You guys need to read, it even says on the main page that it contains spoilers for '''NEXT WEEK'S''' episode.

--[[User:HoennMaster|--HoennMaster]] 14:08, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

:man just go to serebii and find out for urself. they usually update stuff before bulba and even if it says NEXT WEEK, it already happened..i guess he just got a preview pic or someting..[[User:Ritchie|Ritchie]]
:::Ritchie's right. Its on serebii, and I think we can rely on it. DP099 already aired and got some episode preview for DP100.. isn't that enough proof?--'''[[User:Kevzo8|keb]][[User_talk:Kevzo8|s.]]''' 14:06, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Seriously does anyone here know how to read? Yes, it comes from the episode preview, but turtwig won't evolve until next week as it says on Serebii.

--[[User:HoennMaster|--HoennMaster]] 14:08, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

oh, I get it. imaiso{{tt|*|sorry.}}. --'''[[User:Kevzo8|keb]][[User_talk:Kevzo8|s.]]''' 14:21, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
:Preview = didn't happen yet, folks. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 21:09, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
::ye but thats the points of a preview. u find out what happenes before hand , eurging u to watch it. so now we know he gets a grotle. thats final [[User:Blazinhariison|Blazinhariison]]
:::so tte, your basically saying a preview is wrong??? [[User:Ritchie|Ritchie]]
::::i think u mean that "it may be a preview but hte episode didnt air", however tte the preview is FROM the episode and it just showed us what WILL happen...P.S. im also ritchie lol [[User:Blazinhariison|Blazinhariison]]

Please sign your comments with the time stamp of the four tildes. That being said, it's also possible that Grotle could evolve again, leave later in the episode; we just DON'T KNOW. That's why we don't jump the gun and put in information that COULD be false. Yes, we know that Turtwig is going to evolve at least once. We've known this with a high percentage of certainty for a while now. But, we cannot post it until we know just what happens next week. Serebii doesn't know what happens in the next episode, only what was shown in the preview. So we cannot post it as if it were true unless we know the full truth of the matter. [[User:Kumori Satosuke|Satosuke]] 23:43, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

yay it evolved!

==95/96==

Why do people keep chaning this to 95? It appears debuts in DP005 so that makes it 96. --[[User:HoennMaster|Hoenn]][[User talk:HoennMaster|Master]] 03:52, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
: Try 100-5= 95 :3...... It actually does evolve 95 episodes after its capture. --[[User:Force Fire|Force]] [[User talk:Force Fire|Fire]] 03:56, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
::How the heck does anyone get that 5 + 96 = 100... Math refresher course for everyone. 95 episodes makes it the same amount as Grovyle's into Scepty, too. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 04:12, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

I know how to do Math, but 95 is wrong. It may evolve 95 episodes later, but it still appears as a Turtwig in 96 episodes. --[[User:HoennMaster|Hoenn]][[User talk:HoennMaster|Master]] 04:15, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
:That's the point. It evolved 95 episodes later. It's not how many episodes it appeared as a Turtwig in, otherwise we'd have Brock's Steelix taking 5 episodes to evolve. Seriously, how often did that thing appear? '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 04:38, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
:: I know there's a particular way to count. For Example: How many days until saturday? Since today is Saturday, and if we include Saturday in the count it would be eight days (Sat, Sun, Mon, Tue, Wen, Thu, Fri, and Sat) even though it's only supposed to seven days. But we don't do that in math (start from a certain digit and include the same digit in the math). In math it's always the next "digit" that counts when we start from "something" (like "1" we start from "0" but we don't include it). Another example, 5+5 is 10 but we don't count the first 5 as part of the equation, the count continues on 6. HoennMaster if we did it your way 5+5 would equal 11 not 10. So the same thing applies to Turtwig's evolution count. It's debut episode basically doesn't count in the equation since it's the "something" we start from in the count. We start with DP06 as "1" not DP05 "0"--[[User:Dman dustin|Dman dustin]] 09:03, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

I don't need a math lesson, I know full well how to do Math. Also, I don't need a million people telling me the same thing. Redundancy is not good. --[[User:HoennMaster|Hoenn]][[User talk:HoennMaster|Master]] 10:36, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
: Yeah well and you don't need to take it offensively. Why the hell do people get offended, when people are trying to help them? --[[User:Dman dustin|Dman dustin]] 12:35, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

==rock climb==
what does it mean by "Grotle surpassed its own limits and learned rock climb through its willpower alone" dont all pokemon do that? [[User:Happizelpom|Happi]][[User talk:Happizelpom|zel]][[Special:Contributions/Happizelpom|pom]] 03:41, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

== Why!!!! ==

I want some reason that why this picture is horrible.
[[Image:Ash's Grotle 2.png|240px]]
I think the general theory is that if it has the Trainer in the photo, it's clearly the Trainer's Pokémon and this picture is clearly proving that Ash is the trainer of this grotle.
So i think this is the right picture for this article.
If you guys still feel that it is a horrible picture then please give me some reasons.
--♫♪[[User:Adyniz|'''Ady''']][[User talk:Adyniz|'''niz''']]♪♫ 03:57, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
:It's called blurry... [[User:Ht14|''ht'']][[User talk:Ht14|''14'']] 03:58, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
::You beat me to it... but then again, I wasn't on late enough to see this. [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|R.A. Hunter B.]] 21:03, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
:::And also...it's better HD.--[[Bulbapedia:Project Custom Sprite|☆]][[User:Tavisource|Tavis]][[User talk:Tavisource|ource]] 02:19, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

==Overgrow?==
Did Ash's Grotle use Overgrow in DP141? Just need this clarified, since I would have to wait until the episode is dubbed. --[[User:Rockersk08|rock]][[User talk:Rockersk08|ersk]][[Special:Contributions/Rockersk08|08]] 00:48, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
:Yes. --♫♪[[User:Adyniz|'''Ady''']][[User talk:Adyniz|'''niz''']]♪♫ 01:02, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
:: Thanks. I just needed clarification because some don't believe so. But the only way to be positive is for the English dub. Thanks anyway. --[[User:Rockersk08|rock]][[User talk:Rockersk08|ersk]][[Special:Contributions/Rockersk08|08]] 01:04, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
:::My pleasure. --♫♪[[User:Adyniz|'''Ady''']][[User talk:Adyniz|'''niz''']]♪♫ 01:07, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
If this is true, then why is it still unknown in the ability box? (just curious) --[[User:Wytsalvy|wytsalvy]] 17:24, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
:Because it was proven that it wasn't overgrow, but Grotle being powered up. [[User:Turtwig A|Turt]][[wig]] [[Turtwig (Pokémon)|A]] ([[User talk:Turtwig A|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|contribs]]) 17:50, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

== SolarBeam? ==

When did that happen? I didn't see it use SolarBeam. Though the video was very glitchy. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 03:09, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
::That would be because it didn't learn solarbeam and people are just making it up. --DSDark 04:11, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
:::It didn't learned Solar Beam. I watched the whole episode clearly. --♫♪[[User:Adyniz|'''Ady''']][[User talk:Adyniz|'''niz''']]♪♫ 09:06, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

== A Move Improvised? ==

Isnt Grotle eating its Energy Ball in some way a move improvised? [[User: BAC510]] 00:08, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

== Evolution Protection ==

''[[The Greatest - Everyday!]]'' has heavily implied that Grotle is soon to evolve (basically Torterra appeared alongside Ash's Pokémon while Grotle was missing), so this page needs to be protected from the 'jumping the gun'ers out there. [[User:Watchermark|Watchermark]] 11:20, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
:It is. - [[User:Kogoro|'''<sc>Kogoro</sc>''']] '''|''' [[User talk:Kogoro|'''<sc>Talk to me</sc>''']] - 11:26, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
::Until then, I propose that this bumper be used. - ''[[User:Chosen|Chosen]] of [[User talk:Chosen|Mana]]''[[User:Chosen|-]] 16:06, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
::<nowiki>{{EpiProtect|evolve}}</nowiki>

== Ability is missing ==

{{P|Turtwig}} and its evolution family only have one ability; an ability shared with the rest of the starters. PLease add it. - [[User:050294|050294]] 00:42, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
:We have a policy that states that the abilities of anime Pokémon are only put in the article when it is literally said in the anime. Grotle's ability hasn't been explicitly said to be Overgrow, so we cannot add it in. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 00:46, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

== DP166 Evolution Possibility ==

I checked through serebiinetforums and a User there posted a new summary from the TVtokyo Site, with the text translating to:'Sunyshore Tower Hijacked!? The key to the solution is Torterra!?' The template on Grotle's Page should show DP166 as its possible evolution episode. Thanks. [[User:BAC510]] 09:19 February 19, 2010 (UTC)
:I know, I checked TV Tokyo myself and it is '''MENTIONED''' there. I am 10000% sure that Ash's Grotle is going to evolve in DP166 but we should wait for the episode before doing anything crazy/speculated. --♫♪[[User:Adyniz|'''Ady''']][[User talk:Adyniz|'''Niz''']]♪♫ 09:22, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
::Guess what? Wait.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F''']][[Ho-Oh (Pokémon)|orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F''']][[Lugia (Pokémon)|ire]] 10:40, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
:::Exactly. --♫♪[[User:Adyniz|'''Ady''']][[User talk:Adyniz|'''Niz''']]♪♫ 10:48, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
::::I think this user is saying to change the banner so that it shows DP166 as when it may evolve, meaning the template at the top should say this: <nowiki>{{EpiProtect|evolve|DP166|March 4, 2010}}</nowiki> [[User:Turtwig A|Turt]][[wig]] [[Turtwig (Pokémon)|A]] ([[User talk:Turtwig A|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|contribs]]) 12:37, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
::::: Personally I'm still hesitant with the new information, I think we should wait for possibly a new summary of the episode, before changing the banner. With Infernape it was obvious, but this is a little more difficult to buy, true Grotle could evolve in DP166 as the small summary seems to imply, but still not quite convincing. If it's changed fine, but I still feel hesitant to say with "Banner" certainty. --[[User:Dman dustin|Dman dustin]] 12:42, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
:::::: I think that the mere mention of a Pokemon that happens to evolve from something the main characters own isn't enough to warrant that banner. However, when said main character's Pokemon is confirmed to be evolving sometime in the near future in any case, that's a different story. - ''unsigned comment from [[User:Missingno. Master|Missingno. Master]] ([[User talk:Missingno. Master|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Missingno._Master|contribs]])'' 21:18, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

== Recently used move(s) ==

As Grotle appeared in [[DP164]] but only used Energy Ball I think that Razor Leaf, Synthesis and Rock Climb should no longer be considered as recently used moves (as it hasn't used any of them since [[DP144]]). [[User:Watchermark|Watchermark]] 15:01, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
:Does it even matter which moves were used most recently? I think the last contest episode proved that Pokémon in the anime are not limited to four moves at a time! Ursula's Plusle and Minun each used Charge, Discharge, Encore, Spark, Helping Hand, and Charge Beam. That's six, count 'em, six moves! - ''unsigned comment from [[User:Missingno. Master|Missingno. Master]] ([[User talk:Missingno. Master|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Missingno._Master|contribs]])'' 21:15, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
::Not the point of the recent moves thing. [[User:Tc26/Anime Predictions|tc]][[User:Tc26|²₆]][[User talk:Tc26|tc]][[User:Tc26/Sandbox|26]] 00:08, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
:::It may not matter what moves were used recently, but it is still noted. Besides, usually when a main character's Pokémon learns a new move an old one is phased out (look at Pikachu, he's never used Thunder after learning Volt Tackle). Fair enough Grotle hasn't learned anything new recently, but you can't deny it's been a while since it used anything besides Energy Ball. [[User:Watchermark|Watchermark]] 00:17, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
::::My comment is for Missingno., if you're unaware. [[User:Tc26/Anime Predictions|tc]][[User:Tc26|²₆]][[User talk:Tc26|tc]][[User:Tc26/Sandbox|26]] 00:40, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
:::::So was mine [[User:Watchermark|Watchermark]] 09:50, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

== Changing the Evolution Banner! ==

DP166 Preview just aired and I was right about the evolution. It's set to happen in this episode. Time to change it please. [[User:BAC510]] 19:34 February 25, 2010 (UTC)

not yet we have to wait till the episode airs don't ask me why that's just the rules--[[User:Grungle7|Grungle7]] 20:14, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
: That's not what BAC510 was referring to, he was referring to the banner it needs to be changed so it says "There is evidence this Pokemon will evolve in DP166, and will be unprotected when DP166 airs on March 4 2010" or something like that. He wasn't saying the page itself should be updated just the evolution banner.--[[User:Dman dustin|Dman dustin]] 22:05, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

==Grotle Will Evolve In DP 166?==

I just watched a preview of DP166. It showed Grotle evolving.
{{unsigned|Empoleon222}}
:Cool beans. But we're still waiting until it airs. For all we know they could be trolling and the whole glowing bit is just an epic new move, not an evolution. [[User:Umeko|梅子]][[User talk:Umeko|❄]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|❅]] 04:11, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
::I agree with you (ume) that we should wait until it airs (''For all we know they could be trolling and the whole glowing bit is just an epic new move, not an evolution?'' Lol, now that was very funny :D). --♫♪[[User:Adyniz|'''Ady''']][[User talk:Adyniz|'''Niz''']]♪♫ 04:29, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
:::We have to wait, can't change it because it's still a Grotle. --[[User:HoennMaster|Hoenn]][[User talk:HoennMaster|Master]] 05:38, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
:::: How about now? It's been around 2 hours or so, and the article is still protected. --[[User:Dman dustin|Dman dustin]] 12:25, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
:::::I think admins are waiting for a good image for torterra. {{unsigned|Adyniz}}

Talk:Ash's Torterra

2010-03-08T03:18:02Z

Grei:

==Route 203?==

How is this possible when:
1.) Buenary was caught a few episodes later on route 202 where they started and Ash caught Starly.
2.) They haven't been through Jubilife city yet, and route 203 is on the opposite side.
Sorry, but this is just not possible. ~GT4GTR

The Anime is '''''DIFFRENT''''' than the games. n00b.
[[User:Crystallucario|'''''Crystal''''']] [[User talk:Crystallucario|'''''Lucario''''']] 12:00, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
:Good question. I'll look into it more. And Crystallucario, lay off. He only asked a question. --'''[[User:Theryguy512|Theryguy]][[User talk:Theryguy512|5]][[User:Theryguy512/Contribution Page|1]][[User:Theryguy512/Similarities|2]]''' 12:04, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Yeah Crystal, you dont just yell at someone that's asking a question[[User:Shinylucario|'''''Shiny''''']] [[User talk:Shinylucario|'''''Lucario''''']] 12:15, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, and i'm only a 14 year old kid. ~GT4GTR
:Well, just remember, this is the same anime that says {{rt|24}} leads to [[Vermilion City]]. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]][[Image:Ani155MS.gif|Fire echy]]''' 06:41, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
::Yea. And the same anime where {{Ash}} is able to carry an 100-pound {{p|Hippopotas}} on top of his head with the slightest of ease... --'''[[User:Theryguy512|Theryguy]][[User talk:Theryguy512|5]][[User:Theryguy512/Contribution Page|1]][[User:Theryguy512/Similarities|2]]''' 11:58, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
<.<' whoa I'm only 12 almost 13...
[[User:Crystallucario|'''''Crystal''''']] [[User talk:Crystallucario|'''''Lucario''''']] 12:03, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Okay, so the anime is different, but still, how did route 203 come up? Did anyone say route 203? ~GT4GTR

You were the one who brought it up. ''YOU'' tell ''ME''. Sorry I was so rude...just then. Let's be friends![[User:DaPikanator56|DaPikanator56]] 00:48, 31 March 2008 (UTC)DaPikanator56

I know this is old, but it still says route 203. I didn't bring it up, it says it ON THE PAGE. Is there an proof that he was caught on route 203? ([[User:GT4GTR|GT4GTR]] 10:41, 21 October 2008 (UTC))

:Considering that two episodes before it we have proof that Sato-tachi were on Route 202, and it's not until 5 episodes later that they get to Kotobuki City, I would assume that Neatle was caught on Route 202, not Route 203. Unfortunately, the 10th Movie map gives no little evidence on where Neatle was caught, because it doesn't have a subtitle beneath it where it appears. Since neither Route 202 or Route 203 are mentioned, there isn't an official statement that they are on either when Neatle is caught. However, it seems much more likely to assume that they are on Route 202, than our assumption of Route 203. Of course, we can't go about and change this all until he becomes Satoshi's Hayashigame, can we? [[User:Kumori Satosuke|Satosuke]] 13:30, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

== Protect Until October 30th ==

There have already been several speculative edits and reverts over the topic of a possible evolution in [[DP100]]. Shouldn't this page be protected until October 30th? [[User:Kumori Satosuke|Satosuke]] 14:08, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
:The evolution has now been confirmed but our policy is to not move the article until the episode airs. Yeah, the protection should stick. --[[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] |[[User talk:Fabu-Vinny|Talk Page]]| 16:48, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Why was the protection banner removed? It said because it spoils the episode, but so what? Plenty of other pokémon articles have used this, such as May's pokémon when she returned for the Wallace Cup, so why can't the banner be used now?

--[[User:HoennMaster|--HoennMaster]] 16:51, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
:That banner just said there was a chance that something happens to Turtwig. But we now know what exactly happens so the banner has no use there. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 16:54, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
::SOme people just don't like spoilers anyway--[[Bulbapedia:Project Custom Sprite|☆]][[User:Tavisource|Tavis]][[User talk:Tavisource|ource]] 16:54, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
:::And who's to say this isn't its final appearance? Remember, the banner said "evolve and/or leave". Given many different Turtwig, Grotle, and Torterra appear in this episode, it's possible we could have an [[Ash's Pidgeot]]-like situation on our hands, and we don't want people putting that in like it was confirmed. Remember, {{TP|Ash|Chimchar}} is Ash's signature traditional elemental starter in [[Generation IV]]--and this would probably be the biggest and best way to send Turtwig off. I mean, if the writers had planned on making Turtwig Ash's signature elemental starter, Chimchar would either be in Brock's hands or still under Paul's control right now. --[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 20:39, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

So? We had pictures of May's Wartortle from the Wallace Cup and there was still a banner saying it might evolve.

--[[User:HoennMaster|--HoennMaster]] 17:40, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
:Probably because there was still a chance at the time of the revelation that it could be seen onscreen evolving--even in the episode where Wartortle was first confirmed to appear evolved. --[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 20:39, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Ok...but that still doesn't say anything about why the banner was removed here.

--[[User:HoennMaster|--HoennMaster]] 20:42, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

:Probably because {{u|Kenji-girl}} is paranoid. --[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 20:44, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
::Scuse me. I'm not paranoid. You the ones who told be we don't mention anything until the episode airs. Isn't that what the banner is doing? We did the same thing for Ash's Chimchar for like a month and it wasn't even evolving. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 06:13, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
:::"evindence that the subject of this article '''''may''''' evolve or leave." We don't mention anything, regarding of course, the fact of the evolution in the article itself, as if it's already happened, however, this banner warns users that an evolution may occur and to be careful handling information related to it, as rumors may be flying around. The banner exists to tell users "Yes we know it's likely evolving, keep your pants on about it until the episode airs because the rule is "as of the most recent Japanese episode". It's not that the rule is that we can't acknowledge the fact, it's that we don't move anything until it happens. It's why I comment that stuff out. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 06:32, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
::::!!!!it alredy evolved check www.serebii.net and look at ash''s bio,....it evolved before dp100 so ur speculations were wrong [[User:Ritchie|Ritchie]]

yes hes right....kinda. serebii did say turtwig evolved and they even have a pic of ash and grotle, but it still said it evolved in Turtwig, Grotle.....Torterra!? or whatever its called [[User:Happizelpom|Happi]][[User talk:Happizelpom|zel]][[Special:Contributions/Happizelpom|pom]] 13:35, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
:It was also my idea about the "until it airs" thing, and I previews ARE OFFICIAL.--[[Bulbapedia:Project Custom Sprite|☆]][[User:Tavisource|Tavis]][[User talk:Tavisource|ource]] 23:11, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
You guys need to read, it even says on the main page that it contains spoilers for '''NEXT WEEK'S''' episode.

--[[User:HoennMaster|--HoennMaster]] 14:08, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

:man just go to serebii and find out for urself. they usually update stuff before bulba and even if it says NEXT WEEK, it already happened..i guess he just got a preview pic or someting..[[User:Ritchie|Ritchie]]
:::Ritchie's right. Its on serebii, and I think we can rely on it. DP099 already aired and got some episode preview for DP100.. isn't that enough proof?--'''[[User:Kevzo8|keb]][[User_talk:Kevzo8|s.]]''' 14:06, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Seriously does anyone here know how to read? Yes, it comes from the episode preview, but turtwig won't evolve until next week as it says on Serebii.

--[[User:HoennMaster|--HoennMaster]] 14:08, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

oh, I get it. imaiso{{tt|*|sorry.}}. --'''[[User:Kevzo8|keb]][[User_talk:Kevzo8|s.]]''' 14:21, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
:Preview = didn't happen yet, folks. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 21:09, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
::ye but thats the points of a preview. u find out what happenes before hand , eurging u to watch it. so now we know he gets a grotle. thats final [[User:Blazinhariison|Blazinhariison]]
:::so tte, your basically saying a preview is wrong??? [[User:Ritchie|Ritchie]]
::::i think u mean that "it may be a preview but hte episode didnt air", however tte the preview is FROM the episode and it just showed us what WILL happen...P.S. im also ritchie lol [[User:Blazinhariison|Blazinhariison]]

Please sign your comments with the time stamp of the four tildes. That being said, it's also possible that Grotle could evolve again, leave later in the episode; we just DON'T KNOW. That's why we don't jump the gun and put in information that COULD be false. Yes, we know that Turtwig is going to evolve at least once. We've known this with a high percentage of certainty for a while now. But, we cannot post it until we know just what happens next week. Serebii doesn't know what happens in the next episode, only what was shown in the preview. So we cannot post it as if it were true unless we know the full truth of the matter. [[User:Kumori Satosuke|Satosuke]] 23:43, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

yay it evolved!

==95/96==

Why do people keep chaning this to 95? It appears debuts in DP005 so that makes it 96. --[[User:HoennMaster|Hoenn]][[User talk:HoennMaster|Master]] 03:52, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
: Try 100-5= 95 :3...... It actually does evolve 95 episodes after its capture. --[[User:Force Fire|Force]] [[User talk:Force Fire|Fire]] 03:56, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
::How the heck does anyone get that 5 + 96 = 100... Math refresher course for everyone. 95 episodes makes it the same amount as Grovyle's into Scepty, too. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 04:12, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

I know how to do Math, but 95 is wrong. It may evolve 95 episodes later, but it still appears as a Turtwig in 96 episodes. --[[User:HoennMaster|Hoenn]][[User talk:HoennMaster|Master]] 04:15, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
:That's the point. It evolved 95 episodes later. It's not how many episodes it appeared as a Turtwig in, otherwise we'd have Brock's Steelix taking 5 episodes to evolve. Seriously, how often did that thing appear? '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 04:38, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
:: I know there's a particular way to count. For Example: How many days until saturday? Since today is Saturday, and if we include Saturday in the count it would be eight days (Sat, Sun, Mon, Tue, Wen, Thu, Fri, and Sat) even though it's only supposed to seven days. But we don't do that in math (start from a certain digit and include the same digit in the math). In math it's always the next "digit" that counts when we start from "something" (like "1" we start from "0" but we don't include it). Another example, 5+5 is 10 but we don't count the first 5 as part of the equation, the count continues on 6. HoennMaster if we did it your way 5+5 would equal 11 not 10. So the same thing applies to Turtwig's evolution count. It's debut episode basically doesn't count in the equation since it's the "something" we start from in the count. We start with DP06 as "1" not DP05 "0"--[[User:Dman dustin|Dman dustin]] 09:03, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

I don't need a math lesson, I know full well how to do Math. Also, I don't need a million people telling me the same thing. Redundancy is not good. --[[User:HoennMaster|Hoenn]][[User talk:HoennMaster|Master]] 10:36, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
: Yeah well and you don't need to take it offensively. Why the hell do people get offended, when people are trying to help them? --[[User:Dman dustin|Dman dustin]] 12:35, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

==rock climb==
what does it mean by "Grotle surpassed its own limits and learned rock climb through its willpower alone" dont all pokemon do that? [[User:Happizelpom|Happi]][[User talk:Happizelpom|zel]][[Special:Contributions/Happizelpom|pom]] 03:41, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

== Why!!!! ==

I want some reason that why this picture is horrible.
[[Image:Ash's Grotle 2.png|240px]]
I think the general theory is that if it has the Trainer in the photo, it's clearly the Trainer's Pokémon and this picture is clearly proving that Ash is the trainer of this grotle.
So i think this is the right picture for this article.
If you guys still feel that it is a horrible picture then please give me some reasons.
--♫♪[[User:Adyniz|'''Ady''']][[User talk:Adyniz|'''niz''']]♪♫ 03:57, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
:It's called blurry... [[User:Ht14|''ht'']][[User talk:Ht14|''14'']] 03:58, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
::You beat me to it... but then again, I wasn't on late enough to see this. [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|R.A. Hunter B.]] 21:03, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
:::And also...it's better HD.--[[Bulbapedia:Project Custom Sprite|☆]][[User:Tavisource|Tavis]][[User talk:Tavisource|ource]] 02:19, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

==Overgrow?==
Did Ash's Grotle use Overgrow in DP141? Just need this clarified, since I would have to wait until the episode is dubbed. --[[User:Rockersk08|rock]][[User talk:Rockersk08|ersk]][[Special:Contributions/Rockersk08|08]] 00:48, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
:Yes. --♫♪[[User:Adyniz|'''Ady''']][[User talk:Adyniz|'''niz''']]♪♫ 01:02, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
:: Thanks. I just needed clarification because some don't believe so. But the only way to be positive is for the English dub. Thanks anyway. --[[User:Rockersk08|rock]][[User talk:Rockersk08|ersk]][[Special:Contributions/Rockersk08|08]] 01:04, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
:::My pleasure. --♫♪[[User:Adyniz|'''Ady''']][[User talk:Adyniz|'''niz''']]♪♫ 01:07, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
If this is true, then why is it still unknown in the ability box? (just curious) --[[User:Wytsalvy|wytsalvy]] 17:24, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
:Because it was proven that it wasn't overgrow, but Grotle being powered up. [[User:Turtwig A|Turt]][[wig]] [[Turtwig (Pokémon)|A]] ([[User talk:Turtwig A|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|contribs]]) 17:50, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

== SolarBeam? ==

When did that happen? I didn't see it use SolarBeam. Though the video was very glitchy. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 03:09, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
::That would be because it didn't learn solarbeam and people are just making it up. --DSDark 04:11, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
:::It didn't learned Solar Beam. I watched the whole episode clearly. --♫♪[[User:Adyniz|'''Ady''']][[User talk:Adyniz|'''niz''']]♪♫ 09:06, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

== A Move Improvised? ==

Isnt Grotle eating its Energy Ball in some way a move improvised? [[User: BAC510]] 00:08, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

== Evolution Protection ==

''[[The Greatest - Everyday!]]'' has heavily implied that Grotle is soon to evolve (basically Torterra appeared alongside Ash's Pokémon while Grotle was missing), so this page needs to be protected from the 'jumping the gun'ers out there. [[User:Watchermark|Watchermark]] 11:20, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
:It is. - [[User:Kogoro|'''<sc>Kogoro</sc>''']] '''|''' [[User talk:Kogoro|'''<sc>Talk to me</sc>''']] - 11:26, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
::Until then, I propose that this bumper be used. - ''[[User:Chosen|Chosen]] of [[User talk:Chosen|Mana]]''[[User:Chosen|-]] 16:06, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
::<nowiki>{{EpiProtect|evolve}}</nowiki>

== Ability is missing ==

{{P|Turtwig}} and its evolution family only have one ability; an ability shared with the rest of the starters. PLease add it. - [[User:050294|050294]] 00:42, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
:We have a policy that states that the abilities of anime Pokémon are only put in the article when it is literally said in the anime. Grotle's ability hasn't been explicitly said to be Overgrow, so we cannot add it in. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 00:46, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

== DP166 Evolution Possibility ==

I checked through serebiinetforums and a User there posted a new summary from the TVtokyo Site, with the text translating to:'Sunyshore Tower Hijacked!? The key to the solution is Torterra!?' The template on Grotle's Page should show DP166 as its possible evolution episode. Thanks. [[User:BAC510]] 09:19 February 19, 2010 (UTC)
:I know, I checked TV Tokyo myself and it is '''MENTIONED''' there. I am 10000% sure that Ash's Grotle is going to evolve in DP166 but we should wait for the episode before doing anything crazy/speculated. --♫♪[[User:Adyniz|'''Ady''']][[User talk:Adyniz|'''Niz''']]♪♫ 09:22, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
::Guess what? Wait.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F''']][[Ho-Oh (Pokémon)|orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F''']][[Lugia (Pokémon)|ire]] 10:40, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
:::Exactly. --♫♪[[User:Adyniz|'''Ady''']][[User talk:Adyniz|'''Niz''']]♪♫ 10:48, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
::::I think this user is saying to change the banner so that it shows DP166 as when it may evolve, meaning the template at the top should say this: <nowiki>{{EpiProtect|evolve|DP166|March 4, 2010}}</nowiki> [[User:Turtwig A|Turt]][[wig]] [[Turtwig (Pokémon)|A]] ([[User talk:Turtwig A|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|contribs]]) 12:37, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
::::: Personally I'm still hesitant with the new information, I think we should wait for possibly a new summary of the episode, before changing the banner. With Infernape it was obvious, but this is a little more difficult to buy, true Grotle could evolve in DP166 as the small summary seems to imply, but still not quite convincing. If it's changed fine, but I still feel hesitant to say with "Banner" certainty. --[[User:Dman dustin|Dman dustin]] 12:42, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
:::::: I think that the mere mention of a Pokemon that happens to evolve from something the main characters own isn't enough to warrant that banner. However, when said main character's Pokemon is confirmed to be evolving sometime in the near future in any case, that's a different story. - ''unsigned comment from [[User:Missingno. Master|Missingno. Master]] ([[User talk:Missingno. Master|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Missingno._Master|contribs]])'' 21:18, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

== Recently used move(s) ==

As Grotle appeared in [[DP164]] but only used Energy Ball I think that Razor Leaf, Synthesis and Rock Climb should no longer be considered as recently used moves (as it hasn't used any of them since [[DP144]]). [[User:Watchermark|Watchermark]] 15:01, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
:Does it even matter which moves were used most recently? I think the last contest episode proved that Pokémon in the anime are not limited to four moves at a time! Ursula's Plusle and Minun each used Charge, Discharge, Encore, Spark, Helping Hand, and Charge Beam. That's six, count 'em, six moves! - ''unsigned comment from [[User:Missingno. Master|Missingno. Master]] ([[User talk:Missingno. Master|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Missingno._Master|contribs]])'' 21:15, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
::Not the point of the recent moves thing. [[User:Tc26/Anime Predictions|tc]][[User:Tc26|²₆]][[User talk:Tc26|tc]][[User:Tc26/Sandbox|26]] 00:08, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
:::It may not matter what moves were used recently, but it is still noted. Besides, usually when a main character's Pokémon learns a new move an old one is phased out (look at Pikachu, he's never used Thunder after learning Volt Tackle). Fair enough Grotle hasn't learned anything new recently, but you can't deny it's been a while since it used anything besides Energy Ball. [[User:Watchermark|Watchermark]] 00:17, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
::::My comment is for Missingno., if you're unaware. [[User:Tc26/Anime Predictions|tc]][[User:Tc26|²₆]][[User talk:Tc26|tc]][[User:Tc26/Sandbox|26]] 00:40, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
:::::So was mine [[User:Watchermark|Watchermark]] 09:50, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

== Changing the Evolution Banner! ==

DP166 Preview just aired and I was right about the evolution. It's set to happen in this episode. Time to change it please. [[User:BAC510]] 19:34 February 25, 2010 (UTC)

not yet we have to wait till the episode airs don't ask me why that's just the rules--[[User:Grungle7|Grungle7]] 20:14, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
: That's not what BAC510 was referring to, he was referring to the banner it needs to be changed so it says "There is evidence this Pokemon will evolve in DP166, and will be unprotected when DP166 airs on March 4 2010" or something like that. He wasn't saying the page itself should be updated just the evolution banner.--[[User:Dman dustin|Dman dustin]] 22:05, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

==Grotle Will Evolve In DP 166?==

I just watched a preview of DP166. It showed Grotle evolving.
{{unsigned|Empoleon222}}
:Cool beans. But we're still waiting until it airs. For all we know they could be trolling and the whole glowing bit is just an epic new move, not an evolution. [[User:Umeko|梅子]][[User talk:Umeko|❄]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|❅]] 04:11, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
::I agree with you (ume) that we should wait until it airs (''For all we know they could be trolling and the whole glowing bit is just an epic new move, not an evolution?'' Lol, now that was very funny :D). --♫♪[[User:Adyniz|'''Ady''']][[User talk:Adyniz|'''Niz''']]♪♫ 04:29, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
:::We have to wait, can't change it because it's still a Grotle. --[[User:HoennMaster|Hoenn]][[User talk:HoennMaster|Master]] 05:38, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
:::: How about now? It's been around 2 hours or so, and the article is still protected. --[[User:Dman dustin|Dman dustin]] 12:25, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
:::::I think admins are waiting for a good image for torterra. {{unsigned|Adyniz}}

"In DP166, Grotle was used in Ash's first Gym battle against Volkner's Luxray where, despite the type-advantage[...]"

Grotle does not have a type advantage against Luxray. It's only a Grass-type. [[User:Grei|Grei]] 03:18, 8 March 2010 (UTC)