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Talk:Pseudo-legendary Pokémon/Archive 1

2020-02-08T16:56:32Z

Felthry: /* Outdated information */

==What???==
What??? Do we seriously need this??? --'''[[User:Theryguy512|Theryguy]][[User:Theryguy512/Contribution Page|5]][[User:Theryguy512/Mission Page|1]][[User:Theryguy512/Sandbox|2]]''' 20:06, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
:im not going to say its unnessecary, but "Psuedo-legendary" sounds really stupid. so, i think it should either be reworked or deleted. maybe just add to each pokemon's trivia section that they are near legendary or somthing. '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAGNEDETH]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|TA]][[User:MAGNEDETH/Riddles|RID]][[User:MAGNEDETH/new evolutions|NE]][[User:MAGNEDETH/do over|DO]][[User:MAGNEDETH/Pokemon teams|PT]]''' 20:12, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
:I say reworked[[User:Pokemaniac102|'''''<big>P</big>o<big>k</big>e''''']][[User talk:Pokemaniac102|'''''<big>m</big>a<big>n</big>i<big>a</big>c''''']][[User:Pokemaniac102/Riddle|'''''<big>1</big>''''']][[User talk:Pokemaniac102/Riddle|'''''0''''']][[User:Pokemaniac102/Fanfic|'''''<big>2</big>''''']][[User:Pokemaniac102/Picto|'''''♪]][[User talk:Pokemaniac102/Picto|<big>♫</big>''''']] 20:16, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

:::Needs moar reworking. I'll add the cleanup sign.. [[User:Tina|Tina]] [[Special:Contributions/Tina|δ]][[User talk:Tina|♫]] 20:21, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

::::what should they be called then? or do yall think the anme is OK? '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAGNEDETH]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|TA]][[User:MAGNEDETH/Riddles|RID]][[User:MAGNEDETH/new evolutions|NE]][[User:MAGNEDETH/do over|DO]][[User:MAGNEDETH/Pokemon teams|PT]]''' 20:36, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
:::::What'ch ya tryin' to say huh!?[[User:Pokemaniac102|'''''<big>P</big>o<big>k</big>e''''']][[User talk:Pokemaniac102|'''''<big>m</big>a<big>n</big>i<big>a</big>c''''']][[User:Pokemaniac102/Riddle|'''''<big>1</big>''''']][[User talk:Pokemaniac102/Riddle|'''''0''''']][[User:Pokemaniac102/Fanfic|'''''<big>2</big>''''']][[User:Pokemaniac102/Picto|'''''♪]][[User talk:Pokemaniac102/Picto|<big>♫</big>''''']] 20:38, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

:::::::Seems to me that this would an article if where was a "Competitive Battling Project" thing. I do believe I heard the term "Pseudo-legendary" at least once in some places such as Smogon... [[User:Mudkipchan|Mudkipchan]]

::::::::I heard it before. But that was when it was refering to the Groudon in jirachi movie

:::::::::They are all generally recognised as a set of unique pokemon with a few exceptions to each. (e.g. Garchomp's national pokedex number). However, the fan-term 'pseudo-legendary' in itself only actually refers to their final stages. (Dragonite, Tyranitar, Salamence, Metagross, Garchomp). Isn't this a bit inaccurate? --[[User:Hyurnat4|Hyurnat4]] 08:44, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

::::::::::Well in the anime, Dratini was specifically called a legendary pokemon in [[EP035|Legend of Dratini]] [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 20:35, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

== Flygon? ==

I thought only base 600s were psudeo legendary. Why is flygon here? [[User:The Placebo Effect|The Placebo Effect]] 02:52, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
:I'm not too sure either. o__O; [[User:Tina|Tina]] [[Special:Contributions/Tina|δ]][[User talk:Tina|♫]] 02:53, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
::It's a three-stage part-dragon type that can only be found in its first form. [[User:Shiny Noctowl|S<big>h</big>i<big>n</big>y]] [[User talk:Shiny Noctowl|<big>N</big>o<big>c</big>t<big>o</big>w<big>l</big>]]  02:54, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
:::i dont think Flygon should be there, its just not rediculous enough '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAG]][[User:MAGNEDETH#Interesting Stuff|NE]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|DETH]]''' 02:55, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

== Dragonair? ==

CAn't you find wild dragonair in more than 1 game? [[User:The Placebo Effect|The Placebo Effect]] 03:19, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, FRLGRBYDP, But in DP you can find Pokéradar-ed Vibrava. So? [[User:Midnight Celtic|Midnight Celtic]] 03:21, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

:the fact of the matter is that Dragonite is def a psuedo-leg. '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAG]][[User:MAGNEDETH#Interesting Stuff|NE]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|DETH]]''' 03:24, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. [[User:Midnight Celtic|Midnight Celtic]] 03:25, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

== Aggron ==

What about Aggron? [[User:Kpokefan|K]][[User talk:Kpokefan|P]][[User:Kpokefan/Missions|F]] 04:37, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
:Aggron's UU, I believe. UU Pokémon wouldn't be psuedolegendary if they were in UU. :p [[User:Tina|Tina]] [[Special:Contributions/Tina|δ]][[User talk:Tina|♫]] 04:39, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
::may i ask what UU is? '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAG]][[User:MAGNEDETH#Interesting Stuff|NE]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|DETH]]''' 04:41, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
:::I think it means Under-used, as in List of Pokémon by Tier, which is fan-made[[User:Pokemaniac102|Poke]][[User talk:Pokemaniac102|Maniac]][[Special:Contributions/Pokemaniac102|102]] 04:45, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
::::Yep, under-used. It's fanmade. As is the term pseudolegendary. [[User:Tina|Tina]] [[Special:Contributions/Tina|δ]][[User talk:Tina|♫]] 04:46, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
:::::right, well, Aggron doesnt fit the bill because Lairon can be caught in Victory road, and apparently, thats against the rules...or somthing... '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAG]][[User:MAGNEDETH#Interesting Stuff|NE]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|DETH]]''' 04:47, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
::::::True.[[User:Pokemaniac102|Poke]][[User talk:Pokemaniac102|Maniac]][[Special:Contributions/Pokemaniac102|102]] 04:49, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
:::::::Wait a minute, you can catch Dragonair in the wild, so how is Lairon against the rules? [[User:Kpokefan|'''K''']][[User talk:Kpokefan|'''P''']][[User:Kpokefan/Missions|'''F''']] 02:45, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
::::::::Because Aggron's base stats don't total 600. - [[User:Nebula|Nebula]] 15:45, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::The true defintion of pseudo-legendary is a bst of 600 and a three-stage evolutionary line. Things like Dragonair and gabite being caught in the wild are merely trivial. As is the fact they all have one immunity etc. Aggron, Flygon and Kingdra are NOT pseudo-legendaries and never will be. P-Ls do not have to be dragon-type or dragonoid. --[[User:Hyurnat4|Hyurnat4]] 08:50, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

== Real definition for psuedo-legendary ==

Isn't it a BST of 600? [[User:The Placebo Effect|The Placebo Effect]] 13:12, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

== Pseudo-legendary --> Powerhouse ==

It seems to me that everyone who commented on this page, other than Shiny Noctowl, was dumbfounded as to the article's title and definition therein. For pages dealing with fanon terminology, this is a good sign that something has been done '''wrong'''; fanon terms are ''necessarily'' known to a large number of fans, as opposed to a select few, or in this case - no more than one.

Furthemore, the page (prior to my editing it) included mentions of Pokémon with legendary characteristics, despite their having nothing to do with the suggested definiton of pseudo-legendary. It was also a mere copy-and-paste of the corresponding section on the [[Legendary]] page. Now, as for the definition itself, it should be crystal-clear that the powerhouses, as defined by myself, are ''distinct'' in their categorization from any other Pokémon ({{p|Flygon}}, for the sake of discussion). Simply put, they are non-legendary Pokémon whose total base stats is 600, which is a great deal higher than Flygon's 520 (see the trivia paragraph for clarification on {{p|Slaking}}). Besides, what makes Flygon any more special than {{p|Aggron}}, {{p|Walrein}} and the 7 fully-evolved, two-typed starters? All of these match the definition used by Shiny Noctowl. I do hope that competitive usage is not the reason, because {{p|Swampert}} and {{p|Infernape}} clearly outweigh Flygon in that regard.

It amazes me that everyone assumed that the definition was acceptable simply because someone had put it forth. Bulbapedia encourages critical thinking and sets virtually no limits on the users' capacity to edit existing pages. Why was I the only one who had the fortitude to replace the previous definition with one that is actually used by the fandom? --[[User:Unown Lord|Unown Lord]] 16:47, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
:Mudkipchan apparently heard pseudo-legendary on Smogon, and I've heard pseudo-legendary on several websites, so I think it should be moved back. I agree, though, that the definition needed some work. But why remove Flygon? Its stats are slightly lower, but base stats shouldn't be included in the definition. Other than base stats, Flygon is in every way a pseudo-legendary. [[User:Shiny Noctowl|S<big>h</big>i<big>n</big>y]] [[User talk:Shiny Noctowl|<big>N</big>o<big>c</big>t<big>o</big>w<big>l</big>]]  13:57, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

::You can see my comments on the article's name further below. Now, the explanation for my excluding Flygon should be quite obvious from the pieces of trivia; Dragonite, Tyranitar, Salamence, Metagross and Garchomp have more in common than what you listed in your definition, and in fact, they have more in common than just my addition to that definition (a total base stats of 600). Flygon does not share that common denominator; what it does share with the aforementioned five is also shared by ''at the very least'' Walrein and Aggron, who are part of a three-stage line, have two types, require nearly as much experience to reach their form, and have an even higher total of base stats (530). If the only reason for which you included Flygon but excluded those two is that you thought only Flygon was available strictly in its first form, then you thought wrong: In Generation III Sealeo and Walrein are also not available in the wild; in Generation IV both Vibrava and Sealeo are available (incidentally, Lairon is not).

::But all of that is irrelevant, since neither Flygon nor Walrein (nor Aggron, for that matter) has enough in common with the powerhouses/pseudo-legendaries so as to be added to the group. It is enough to require a total base stats of 600 to limit the group to the five relevant ones (a respectable addition in and of itself), but again, their common denominator is even greater than that. Look at the trivia and see it for yourself. --[[User:Unown Lord|Unown Lord]] 13:55, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

I agree with Shiny, Pseudo-Legendary makes more sense. I.E. My Snorlax is a powerhouse, but it isn't a pseudo-legendary. My Flygon is not my powerhouse, yet it is a pseudo-legendary. Catch my drift? [[User:Midnight Celtic|Midnight Celtic]] 15:28, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
:Psudo legendary should be used. But the only pokemon that should meet this criteria are those 3 stage evos with a base stat of 600. Slaking is questionable, but I would say no to it, as well as flygon. [[User:The Placebo Effect|The Placebo Effect]] 01:08, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

::I'm with {{u|Unown Lord}}. Take it or leave it. -[[User:Politoed666|ニョロトノ]][[User talk:Politoed666|''666'']] 03:29, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:::i agree with Placebo, though i think Slaking might be in. but not Flygon. '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAG]][[User:MAGNEDETH#Interesting Stuff|NE]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|DETH]]''' 03:31, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

I think Midnight Celtic makes a good point, powerhouse can mean ANY strong Pokémon, where as Psuedo-legendary makes a clear point. [[User:GlinnMgraw|Glinn]] 03:37, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:Incorrect. It depends on the definition, not the connotation that goes along with the given word(s). -[[User:Politoed666|ニョロトノ]][[User talk:Politoed666|''666'']] 03:39, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

What's the point in a defenition if it doesn't explain clearly the subject? [[User:GlinnMgraw|Glinn]] 03:44, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

absolutly, my old car was nicknamed "the powerhouse" but it was definatly not a pokemon! that being said, "powerhouse" is a general term, it sounds more like a metagame term than a true definition. i could load a powerful pokemon with powerful attacks, and ive got a powerhouse, but a psuedo-legendary means its special in some way, and what you are trying to appeal here is to somone whos never jheard the term before, and they will almost understand what psuedo-legendary just by the sound, where as a powerhouse requires an explanation. '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAG]][[User:MAGNEDETH#Interesting Stuff|NE]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|DETH]]''' 04:00, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
:I agree, powerhouse is too broad a term for these Pokémon. Pseudo-legendary fits the bill better. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]][[User:TTEchidna/GSDS|GSDS!]]''' 05:57, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

::First of all, my ''true'' gripe was with the contents of the article; redirecting the article to a new title was primarily symbolic of the reshifting of its underlying ideas. However, I would like to point out the irony in the statement that powerhouse is too broad a term spanning just about every overused Pokémon - the same can be said of pseudo-legendary, as evidenced by the fact that this article originally contained a separate list of Pokémon with legendary characteristics!

::Furthermore, I personally feel that ''pseudo-legendary'' should be used to describe only two Pokémon that are not even mentioned in the article: {{p|Unown}} and {{p|Phione}}. ''Legendary'' alludes to mystery and nature or universe-controlling abilities; this article deals with battle prowess, for which legendaries are certainly well known, but it takes second place to their aura. Besides, some legendaries are not as battle-competent as the pseudo-legendaries/powerhouses in the article - practically all tweleve members of the legendary trios, and arguably some others. This comparison holds in base stats (the legendary trio all have a total of 580, which is lower than 600), but even an in-depth comparison on a competitive level leads to the same conclusion, at least generally. Therefore, is it justified to attach the name ''pseudo-legendary'' to a definition that highlights the battle prowess of Pokémon that are actually stronger than some legendaries? On the other hand, Unown and Phione are indeed pseudo-legendary if the term is taken to mean a Pokémon whose aura is associated with a true legendary ({{p|Suicune}} in Unown's case and {{p|Manaphy}} in Phione's).

::But I digress, as I do agree that if ''pseudo-legendary'' is more frequently used by the fandom to describe the group in question, then it should be used for the purposes of discussing a fanon term.

::One last thing - I appreciate Politoed666's token of solidarity. I don't mind reversions to my own edits, especially when done by another sysop, but it isn't my idea of showing respect; it would have been better to wait a bit longer in case I had arguments to present. I only wonder why the same level of urgency was not taken to revise the contents of the article in its original format, when it obviously needed re-working. --[[User:Unown Lord|Unown Lord]] 13:55, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

I agree with certain points made by Unown Lord. Perhaps the overall issue with the term "pseudo-legendary" is the usage of "legendary." There are Pokémon that are "legendary" which do have certain exclusive characteristics, and applying the term to another group has its drawbacks. While the term may certain have specific applications to the pseudo-legendary Pokémon it is difficult to draw a completely defined line, contrary to the case with legendary Pokémon. The debate over which Pokémon "qualify" has no feasible ending point, as fans will always stick to their opinion concerning which ones "deserve" to be included. Sure, we have limits on Bulbapedia but in spite of this fact, there is still such an issue, as we can see from this very page. Honestly, I have no problem with the term, despite how vague it is and the supposed difficulty adhering to its guidelines. My wife on the other hand, disagrees with its usage for many of the reasons I mention. [[User:Deviant Audio|Deviant Audio]] 16:01, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

== Title Trouble ==

Uhh, guys, the title says Pseudo-legendary but the article is about powerhouses... --[[User:Manga-in-a-bottle|Manga-in-a-bottle]] 06:01, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
:It's what I was in the middle of fixing, then a million edit conflicts come up. Argh. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]][[User:TTEchidna/GSDS|GSDS!]]''' 06:09, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
::Oh... My bad.[[User:Pokemaniac102|Poke]][[User talk:Pokemaniac102|Maniac]][[Special:Contributions/Pokemaniac102|102]] 06:12, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

I tried editing it, but then edit-conflicts. Why were you doing one at a time? I could have done it in 30 seconds. :| [[User:GlinnMgraw|Glinn]] 06:12, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
:There were a lot. And I wanted to get some in before there was in edit conflict[[User:Pokemaniac102|Poke]][[User talk:Pokemaniac102|Maniac]][[Special:Contributions/Pokemaniac102|102]] 06:14, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
::hows about we make a note the page about how some people call it "powerhouse" '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAG]][[User:MAGNEDETH#Interesting Stuff|NE]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|DETH]]''' 18:52, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
:::Uh Uh Uh I guess.[[User:Pokemaniac102|Poke]][[User talk:Pokemaniac102|Maniac]][[Special:Contributions/Pokemaniac102|102]] 18:55, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

== Arcanine ==
Shouldn't Arcanine be classified as a powerhouse pokemon as well? [[User:Boywonder01|'''Boy''']][[User talk:Boywonder01|'''wonder''']][[Special:Contributions/Boywonder01|'''01''']] 10:05, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
:Powerhouse. Not pseudo-legendary. There's a difference: Porygon-Z's a powerhouse, Alakazam's a powerhouse. Their base stats in Special Attack are higher than the base stats of any other non-legendary's Attack or Special Attack, but they aren't pseudo-legendary. They aren't the final forms of end-of-dex Pokémon, they're just final forms of Pokémon that do really well in Special Attack. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]][[User:TTEchidna/GSDS|GSDS!]]''' 10:35, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
:: But the species is called '''legendary''', despite it isn't a legendary, so it is kind of a pseudo..., isn't it? And it has the highest sum of base-stats of all non-legendary under 600... So there would be good reasons to call it a pseudo-legendary. And by the way, if you search for the [[Powerhouse]]-Article you are redirected to this article, so either there is a need for a own article for the fanterm Powerhouse or Arcanine is truly a pseudo. --[[User:Blablubbb|Blablubbb]] 06:58, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

== 600 stat point total a requirement? ==

Doesn't that seem a little subjective? I mean sure they all have that but that doesn't mean a future Pokemon of similar psuedo-legend status will have that total. Plus with these Pokemon it could just be coincidence they all have 600. Having 600 total might have been how it happened for all of them, but I just don't seem it as a ''requirement'' per se. Just that that's how it happened. Toastypk 03:34, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
:Not really. The psuedo-legends were most likely designed so that their stats WOULD total 600. The only likely exception would be Dragonite due to Special Attack/Defence being a single stat in Generation 1, but it was probably reworked to total 600 in Generation 2. It's hardly likely to be coincedence that their base stats all total 600. - [[User:Nebula|Nebula]] 16:54, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
Hmm... well I've never paid attention to stat totals anyway, just relative strengths. Toastypk
::As I said above a base stat total of 600 is a requirement, not a coindidence. It is why they are called pseudo-legendaries, as many legendary pokemon have a bst of 600.--[[User:Hyurnat4|Hyurnat4]] 08:54, 11 November 2009 (UTC)--[[User:Hyurnat4|Hyurnat4]] 08:55, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Is it worth mentioning that Tyranitar, as of gen IV, technically has a total stats of 650?? (Due to its sand stream ability and the fact that Rock types get a x1.5 boost in S.Def in a sandstorm???) I know its not its true "Base" stats as such but even so I feel it should be mentioned [[User:PhantomCX|PhantomCX]] 12:59, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
:::Nebula, the psuedo-legends were not designed so that their stats would total 600, in fact psuedo-legends at all were not designed, it is just a made up term? [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 03:16, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

=={{p|Lucario}}==
Couldn't Lucario fit the pseudo-legendary description? [[User:Shadow1337|Shadow1337]] 23:37, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
:how? its nothing like a Pseudo in any way. -- '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAG]][[User:MAGNEDETH#Interesting Stuff|NE]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|DETH]]''' 23:42, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
::Well, for one thing pseudo-legendary ''by definition'' means false legendary. Lucario was once thought to be a legendary and has very similar stats. It even has higher stats than some of the legendaries.[[User:Shadow1337|Shadow1337]] 00:23, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
Pseudo-legendary is a term used to refer to any Pokémon that has a three-stage evolution line,
two types, as well as a base stat total of 600.
:::so, does Lucario fit any of those criteria? One. he has two-types. 1/3 doesnt cut it here. -- '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAG]][[User:MAGNEDETH#Interesting Stuff|NE]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|DETH]]''' 00:40, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
::::But if Lucario ever gets an evolution, its evolution could possibly be a pseudo-legendary. <big>[[user:chocolate|Cho]][[user talk:chocolate|col]][[special:contributions/chocolate|ate]]</big> 00:45, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
:::::No, it won't. Riolu is a baby pokemon evolves from happiness, which will likely separate it. Lucario won't get an evolution because it has too varied a moveset and too high stats.--[[User:Hyurnat4|Hyurnat4]] 08:58, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
:::::That's true.[[User:Shadow1337|Shadow1337]] 00:46, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
::::::not that it wont ever happen, but be rational. do you think Lucario will seriously get an evo? rationally, no. therefor, it is not (currently) a Pseudo-legendary. btw Chocolate, id appreciate it if you didnt edit my comments. if i wanted it like that, id have made it like that in the first place. -- '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAG]][[User:MAGNEDETH#Interesting Stuff|NE]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|DETH]]''' 00:55, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
:::::::What's more, speculating on whether an evolution of a Pokémon would be pseudo-legendary is hardly a good argument for calling Lucario one. [[User:GlinnMgraw|Glinn]] [[User_talk:GlinnMgraw|Mgraw]] 11:21, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
::::::::I consider Lucario a semi-legendary Pokémon. A few others i put in the group are Pokémon like Arcanine, Unown, Rotom, etc. --'''[[User:InuMimi|いぬ]][[User talk:InuMimi|みみ]]''' 23:14, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::they have legendary traits, but they are not legendaries. and far from pseudo-legendaries. -- '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAG]][[User:MAGNEDETH#Interesting Stuff|NE]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|DETH]]''' 23:20, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

::::::::::That's why I call them semi-legendaries; meaning they are kind of legendary. --'''[[User:InuMimi|いぬ]][[User talk:InuMimi|みみ]]''' 23:23, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

== [[Slaking (Pokémon)]] ==
Why is Slaking not a Psuedo? [[User:DragonTamer|DragonTamer]] 04:53, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
:Oohh, It's not dual type, [[User:DragonTamer|DragonTamer]] 04:55, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

== Inbalance ==

Too much trivia? Too little article? Can someone with experience in competitive gameplay edit it so that the trivia is not longer than the actual article? '''[[User:Optimatum|<sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc>]][[User talk:Optimatum|Talk]]|[[User:Optimatum/sig/Pikachu|Links]] 12:30, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

== New table ==
'''Here:'''
{| align="center" style="background: #272727; -moz-border-radius: 10px; border: 5px solid #525252"
! colspan="2" style="background:#{{cynthia color light}}; -moz-border-radius-topleft: 5px;" | {{color2|272727|Generation I}}
! colspan="2" style="background:#{{cynthia color light}}" | {{color2|272727|Generation II}}
! colspan="4" style="background:#{{cynthia color light}}" | {{color2|272727|Generation III}}
! colspan="2" style="background:#{{cynthia color light}}; -moz-border-radius-topright: 5px;"| {{color2|272727|Generation IV}}
|- align="center"
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{kanto color light}}" | [[Image:149.png]] '''{{pcolor|Dragonite|{{kanto color dark}}}}'''
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{johto color light}}" | [[Image:248.png]] '''{{pcolor|Tyranitar|{{johto color dark}}}}'''
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{hoenn color light}}" | [[Image:373.png]] '''{{pcolor|Salamence|{{hoenn color dark}}}}'''
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{colo color light}}" | [[Image:376.png]] '''{{pcolor|Metagross|{{colo color dark}}}}'''
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{sinnoh color light}}" | [[Image:445.png]] '''{{pcolor|Garchomp|{{sinnoh color dark}}}}'''
|- align="center" style="font-size: 90%;"
| style="background:#{{dragon color}}" | {{typecolor|Dragon}}
| style="background:#{{flying color}}" | {{typecolor|Flying}}
| style="background:#{{rock color}}" | {{typecolor|Rock}}
| style="background:#{{dark color}}" | {{typecolor|Dark}}
| style="background:#{{dragon color}}" | {{typecolor|Dragon}}
| style="background:#{{flying color}}" | {{typecolor|Flying}}
| style="background:#{{steel color}}" | {{typecolor|Steel}}
| style="background:#{{psychic color}}" | {{typecolor|Psychic}}
| style="background:#{{dragon color}}" | {{typecolor|Dragon}}
| style="background:#{{ground color}}" | {{typecolor|Ground}}
|- align="center"
! colspan="10" align="center" style="background:#{{cynthia color light}}" | {{color|272727|Evolves from}}
|- align="center"
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{kanto color light}}" | [[Image:148.png]] {{pcolor|Dragonair|{{kanto color dark}}}}
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{johto color light}}" | [[Image:247.png]] {{pcolor|Pupitar|{{johto color dark}}}}
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{hoenn color light}}" | [[Image:372.png]] {{pcolor|Shelgon|{{hoenn color dark}}}}
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{colo color light}}" | [[Image:375.png]] {{pcolor|Metang|{{colo color dark}}}}
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{sinnoh color light}}" | [[Image:444.png]] {{pcolor|Gabite|{{sinnoh color dark}}}}
|- align="center" style="font-size: 90%;"
| style="background:#{{dragon color}}" colspan="2" | {{typecolor|Dragon}}
| style="background:#{{rock color}}" | {{typecolor|Rock}}
| style="background:#{{ground color}}" | {{typecolor|Ground}}
| style="background:#{{dragon color}}" colspan="2" | {{typecolor|Dragon}}
| style="background:#{{steel color}}" | {{typecolor|Steel}}
| style="background:#{{psychic color}}" | {{typecolor|Psychic}}
| style="background:#{{dragon color}}" | {{typecolor|Dragon}}
| style="background:#{{ground color}}" | {{typecolor|Ground}}
|- align="center"
! colspan="10" align="center" style="background:#{{cynthia color light}}" | {{color|272727|Evolves from}}
|- align="center"
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{kanto color light}}" | [[Image:147.png]] {{pcolor|Dratini|{{kanto color dark}}}}
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{johto color light}}" | [[Image:246.png]] {{pcolor|Larvitar|{{johto color dark}}}}
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{hoenn color light}}" | [[Image:371.png]] {{pcolor|Bagon|{{hoenn color dark}}}}
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{colo color light}}" | [[Image:374.png]] {{pcolor|Beldum|{{colo color dark}}}}
| colspan="2" style="background:#{{sinnoh color light}}" | [[Image:443.png]] {{pcolor|Gible|{{sinnoh color dark}}}}
|- align="center" style="font-size: 90%;"
| style="background:#{{dragon color}}; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft: 5px;" colspan="2" | {{typecolor|Dragon}}
| style="background:#{{rock color}}" | {{typecolor|Rock}}
| style="background:#{{ground color}}" | {{typecolor|Ground}}
| style="background:#{{dragon color}}" colspan="2" | {{typecolor|Dragon}}
| style="background:#{{steel color}}" | {{typecolor|Steel}}
| style="background:#{{psychic color}}" | {{typecolor|Psychic}}
| style="background:#{{dragon color}}" | {{typecolor|Dragon}}
| style="background:#{{ground color}}; -moz-border-radius-bottomright: 5px;" | {{typecolor|Ground}}
|}
*[[User:Tc26|tc]][[User talk:Tc26|26]]* 03:47, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

== Available only as their first form. ==

The article states that "Most pseudo-legendaries are obtainable in the wild strictly in their first form. However, Dragonair is also obtainable in the wild in most games where Dratini is (all but Pokémon Red, Green and Blue). Likewise, Pupitar is available in the wild in Crystal. Gabite is found in Victory Road in Platinum."

However, with the addition of Platinum, Gabite can be found in the wild. This means that no, only 2 out of the 5 of them are only found in their first form in the wild. I honestly don't think that something like that should be included in the article, since when was 2 out of 5 "most", or even noteworthy? You could say that all 5 of them have the colour blue on them somewhere, but is that noteworthy?

I'd have already removed it, but the page is protected. [[User:Ggled|Ggled]] 22:09, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
:There's no blue on either Dragonite or Larvitar, thus your entire logic is flawed! Good DAY, sir! :P In all seriousness though, you raise a good point. That part of the article definitely needs to be removed. --[[User:Dual|Dual]] 04:41, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
::Maybe he means a pokemon in the line has had the colour blue on them at some point? --[[User:Hyurnat4|Hyurnat4]] 09:01, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

== Kingdra ==

It doesn't fit the 600 total, (540 in case you were wondering) but it's dual type, it has 3 stages in the family, and it's at the end of the Pokedex. Sorry about bringing up another Pokemon [[User:BaconBoy|Corvy]] 12:25, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
:Kingdra isn't a pseudo-legendary. All qualities must be met. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 20:57, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

== Base Stat total trivia ==

On all the pseudo legendaries, there is a trivia entry stating that they have the second highest base stat total behind slaking. It then goes on to say how it's tied with the other pseudo legendaries etc etc.
Wouldn't it make more sense to just not have this? I mean there's already a link to the pseudo legendary page (here) at the top of the page, and it explains here that they all have the same base stat total etc. Just seems redundant to me and pointless trivia. [[User:Derian|[[Derian]]]] 14:23, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

== Stats ==

I don't know how you'd do it, but might it be useful to put stats on the final evolutions at some point.--[[User:Hyurnat4|Hyurnat4]] 09:04, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

I agree. There is a lot of talk about stats and it would be nice to scroll up and refer to the stats of each Pokemon, rather then have to do to their individual page and scroll down. :/[[User:Tro|Tro]] 07:38, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

== Question ==

Should the part about 600 stat total be changed to something like "at least 600"? Yes there is nothing like that now, but if in future generations something with 630 total ''does'' show up it would be better to be prepared now then argue about it when something comes up.--[[user:Mtn otter|Mtn otter]] We are the Void 14:13, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
:We'll sort that out when it happens. Bulbapedia deals with the present. Thanks anyway. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 04:42, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
::I highly doubt anyone would complain about whether or not something with above 600 counts or not... [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 14:43, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

== Garchomp's location in the pokedex ==

Stated in the characteristics section, it says that Garchomp's evolution line is not next to any notable pokemon. However, I disagree: Before Gible is Spiritomb, a pokemon that is considered semi-legendary by fans, since it can only be caught once under special conditions in the wild. Should we reword that sentence to include this information? {{Unsigned|AuraGaurdian}}

:Please remember to sign your posts with four tildes (~). [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 04:56, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

== Ash's Larvitar ==

It mentions in the trivia that Ash had only one member of the pseudo-legendary line, referencing his Gible, but at one point he had a Larvitar. Shouldn't this be mentioned in the article? --~~[[User_talk:AuraGaurdian|Aura]][[Special:Contributions/AuraGaurdian|Gaurdian]] 17:44, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
:Give the source and edit it to two. [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 20:23, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
::It's called [[Ash's Larvitar]] by the way. The trivia is actually referencing to his Larvitar but if you wanted to figure out a way of wording it you could say,"Ash is the only main character in the anime to own two different members of a pseudo-legendary family." or something along those lines. –'''[[User talk:MasterKenobi|Master]][[User:MasterKenobi|Kenobi]]''' 20:36, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
:::Gonna step in here quick and bring up that I think the reason why Gible is said to be Ash's only pseudo-legendary was because Larvitar was never technically ''his'', he was just temporarily taking care of it or whatnot. Its article is named as such for the sake of simplicity. [[User:Umeko|梅子]][[User talk:Umeko|❀]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|✿]] 20:41, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
::::If that is the case then why does its article call it Ash's? Are we going to need to move the article if it wasn't Ash's? [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 03:02, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
:::::From my previous comment on the matter:
::::::''Its article is named as such'' [ie. "Ash's Larvitar"] ''for the sake of simplicity''
:::::We can't very well call the article "the Larvitar that Ash took care of for about eight episodes but was never technically owned by him" or something. :P [[User:Umeko|梅子]][[User talk:Umeko|❀]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|✿]] 15:30, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
:::::::That may be true but it apparently isn't his, the page at least should not have that, Ash's current pokemon thing at the bottom or something [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 20:11, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
This discussion would better serve a purpose [[Talk:Ash's_Larvitar#Ash.27s_Larvitar|here]], so I am moving it there

== Addition of Charizard ==
I feel that Charizard is a pseudo-legendary. I think it should be added due to it's immense power. Feel free to respond. [[User:BrianPokemonTrainer|BrianPokemonTrainer]] 00:42, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
:Did.... you even read the article? Charizard does '''not''' fufill any of the requirements. It's not even that strong. ._. ▫▫'''[[User:Tina|ティナ]]'''[[User talk:Tina|♫]][[Special:Contributions/Tina|★]] 00:45, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
::Well... who decided the rules of this '''fluff''' term anyways? [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 02:57, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

== Kibago ==

Isn't kibago a Pseudo-legendary--[[User:lilkaykaygal|KayKay]]|[[User talk:Lilkaykaygal|Chat to me!]] 03:01, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Stats don't reach +600. Ononokusu may be faster and stronger than Gyarados, but a pseudo-legendary he is not.--[[User:Black Yin Zekrom|Black Yin Zekrom]] 03:08, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

==Dratini==
Awww, who removed part of my note in the trivia about how in the anime Dratini was specifically stated to be a legendary pokemon? [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 03:18, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

:That's like saying Arcanine should by a Pseudo-Legendary because "Legendary Pokemon" is in its title.{{unsigned|Bluekirbystar}}

::No I only said it should be psuedo-legendary because the anime stated it as a legendary? [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 14:01, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
:::This page is about the Pseudo-legendary classification used by fans, especially in regards to the metagame. It does NOT refer to Pokémon which are considered legendary in in-game text or other media, despite not having the rarity or strength of typical legendaries. Why can't anyone seem to understand that? --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] 15:26, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
::::It was just a note for the trivia, trivia rarely is extremely on-topic with the rest of the article, that is why it gets posted in the trivia and not the article itself. [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 16:31, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
:::::Wrong. Trivia must be "on topic". You wouldn't add trivia about how Lance's Dragonite in Gen. I knew Barrier here. Similarly, your trivia would belong in the Legendary Pokémon article, or Dratini's article, but not this article. --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] 16:50, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
::::::Wrong. I said ''extremely'' on-topic, the anime's classification of Dratini's status is ''moderately'' on-topic with a fluff term based on what the fans feel is Dratini's status. I never said trivia could be off-topic, I only said it didn't have to be ''extremely'' on-topic. [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 04:21, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

== Metagross is used in Gen V ==

Metagross is used by Lady Caitlin in the Isshu Elite Four rematch. {{unsigned|Bluekirbystar}}

== Ononokus ==

Isn't Ononokus a psuedo-legendary? It isn't near the end of the Pokedex, but then Garchomp isn't either. [[User:Taromon777|'''T a r o m o n''']] 11:33, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
:No base stats of 600 total. End of discussion.--[[User:Dennou Zenshi|でんのう]] ☢ [[User talk:Dennou Zenshi|'''Z'''えんし]] 11:39, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, right. I don't normally bother looking at stats... [[User:Taromon777|'''T a r o m o n''']] 08:40, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
::: You should look at stats; as it is one of the best indicators of which species make a group, or are version counterparts.{{unsigned|Eriorguez}}

== Two types really necessary? ==

I'd say the defining feature is the 600 BST. The page, in more than one place, describes the fact that pseudolegendaries have two types as though you couldn't, even in theory, have a pseudolegendary without it, but is that so? Obviously, all the pseudos that currently exist have two types (and we should mention that fact, don't get me wrong), but wouldn't we just adjust our definition if they (hypothetically) introduced a monotype pseudo in the sixth generation? I don't think we should "define" a pseudo as having two types; nor should we list that as one of the reasons Slaking isn't. --[[User:HeroicJay|HeroicJay]] 17:25, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
:Good point, don't two typers have more weaknesses usually? Not a very legendary trait... [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 03:43, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

== Ulgamoth ==

This may be shot down, but SURELY Ulgamoth is a pseudo-legendary. It may lack the Base Stats and Second Evolution, but it's clearly intended to be in the same tier. Its final evolution receives the EV yield of a Third-Stage pokemon, it comes right after Sazandorah, just like how Salamence and Metagross are placed next to each other (Garchomp was separated from legendaries by Evolutions from previous gens). It has significant mythology connected to it, and is obtained in peculiar ways, one of which is fashioned like a Legendary Encounter. It evolves at a ridiculously high level. Hell, the concept itself is that of something that would have a cocoon stage, but missed out on it somehow. The 550 Base Stat is peculiar, but surely can be put down to it having Butterfly Dance, an obscenely powerful move. Pretty much everything points it to being a counterpart with Sazandorah as the two pseudo-legendaries of Generation 5. [[User:N-Denizen|N-Denizen]] 23:30, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
:Nope, needs to have the stats and isn't a {{type|Dragon}}. {{p|Haxorus}} isn't considered Pseudo-legendary because of stats and it IS a {{t|Dragon}}. --[[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']]''' 23:34, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
::{{p|Tyranitar|They don't have to be a Dragon}} {{p|Metagross|to be considered pseudo-legendary}}. But yeah, Ulgamoth has the wrong stats and it only has two stages. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 00:40, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
:::Thanks for the clarification User Kenji-girl. --[[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']]''' 23:33, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
:I would agree on Volcarona being intended to be something special, but not the same thing as pseudo-legends. It is something new and different, even if similar. [[User:Eriorguez|Eriorguez]] 13:55, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
::The only problem I see then is that it's left in a weird limbo. It's not a "legendary" because it can breed, and despite being a Champion's ace, apparently not a pseudo-legendary. I think it's significant enough to classified as something surely. [[User:N-Denizen|N-Denizen]] 20:12, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
:::I would like to disagree with everyone that opposes Volcarona as a Pseudo-Legendary. Just have a look at nearly every other Bug type that came before it for instance, and you'll notice that ALL tend to have stats below 400 or very rarely reaching 500 or higher. In nearly all games before B/W it was almost like a rule or some sort, or a tradition. Perhaps Volcarona lives up to this tradition even with B/W's upgrade to Bug types. As a Bug type, it would not be able to have as high of stats as other types if it followed this old tradition, so that would explain Volcarona's BST of 550 instead of 600. Another possible explaination is probably just an excuse to make it have a lower BST than Genesect. The big seal to all this is that Alder uses Volcarona as his main Pokemon. Why would it be used as his main if it wasn't a Pseudo-Legendary? Why just have something random instead of a Psuedo-legendary or even a Legendary? It all starts to make sense when you think about it. Volcarona, though having a lower BST than the other Pseudo-Legends, still has the exact same kind of power you'd expect from one due to it's gargantuan stats compared to other Bug types. Even Genesect feels very weak in comparison to Volcarona, as well as giving Tyranitar and Metagross something to fear and respect at the same time. So the point of all of this is, it would seem reasonable to accept Volcarona as a Pseudo-Legend due to past treatment of Bug types in general. Besides, doesn't it seem more like a fan idea to have them required to have a BST of 600 and be a 3 stage line? What if GF has their own requirements to the idea and simply design them as they please? For a Bug type to fill this role, all of this would make alot of sense. Why simply believe a Pseudo-Legend requires those things only because of past tradition from Gen I-IV? Wouldn't it be fair for a Bug type Pseudo-Legend to exist yet still follow the tradition of Bug types having lower Base stats than others? [[User:Shiramu Kuromu|Shiramu Kuromu]] 20:36, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
::::Pseudo-legendary is a fan term, so fans determine the requirements. It is based on a pattern we as fans have detected in each generation? Being "strong" has nothing to do with being pseudo-legendary (other than that pseudo-legendary requires a 600 BST). Champion usage does not make something pseudo-legendary, even if it is their primary Pokémon. Alder doesn't use a legendary Pokémon because they are restricted to battle facility Trainers and storyline events. They did not fit it into their previous pattern. Anything that breaks the mold is not bending the pattern, but rejecting it. What does Volcarona have in common with actual pseudo-legendary Pokémon? If we let Volcarona in, then the definition of pseudo-legendary becomes "has two types, needs 1,250,000 exp to get to level 100". Now, if you look at {{cat|Pokémon in the Slow experience group|this list of Pokémon in that experience group}} and pick out all the dual typed Pokémon, excluding legendary Pokémon, you can see just how many there are. To name a few, {{p|Abomasnow}}, {{p|Aggron}}, {{p|Sharpedo}}, {{p|Lanturn}}. And that is only a few of them. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 11:49, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
:::::Now you're being just biased about all this. Why do they all need BSTs of 600? Can't Volcarona be the exception due to it's Bug typing? Even if Dual typed and Slow exp group were the only requirements now, it would all still be the same, since Volcarona would be the only Pseudo-Legend that doesn't fill the previous 600 BST requirement. All you seem to be trying to do is sticking too much to tradition, because honestly, I thought you'd stick with the 1st to 4th gen's Pseudo-Legend tradition of Attack being the highest stat when it was revealed Hydreigon's highest was Special Attack instead. Due to that, I thought everybody would be biased with even it due to favoring Special Attack instead. Volcarona, when compared to Aggron of Flygon, makes far more sense as a Pseudo-Legendary. Honestly, I think of Pseudo-Legendaries having the highest BST of all non-legendaries out of one of their types. Dragonite, Salamence, Garchomp, and Hydreigon have the highest Base Stat total of all non-legendary Dragon types, Tyranitar has the highest of all Non-legendary Rock types, and the highest for Dark types along with Hydreigon. Metagross has the highest out of all Non-legendary Steel and Psychic types. Volcarona has the highest of all Non-legendary Bug types. It all makes sense when you consider how a Pseudo-Legendary could be designed with that in mind. [[User:Shiramu Kuromu|Shiramu Kuromu]] 21:56, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
::::::In other words, think of it this way:

::::::-Non-legendary.
::::::-Evolves atleast once.
::::::-Highest Base Stat total of atleast one of their types.
::::::-Dual typed.
::::::-Slow Experience group.

::::::With this in mind, ONLY Dragonite, Tyranitar, Salamence, Metagross, Garchomp, Hydreigon, and Volcarona fit all four of these requirements. Arcanine and Slaking don't have two types, and Archeops isn't in the right Exp group and isn't the highest of either of it's types. So there you have it, problem solved. [[User:Shiramu Kuromu|Shiramu Kuromu]] 22:18, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
:::::::So what you're saying is that we should change the currently accepted definition of Pseudo-legendary just because you want Volcarona to be one. Not gonna happen.

:::::::Besides, Ghetsis is the last opponent in the story, and he uses a Hydreigon, but not a Volcarona. Not that final opponent usage matters, as Tyranitar was first used by Blue in FR/LG and was still considered a Pseudo-legendary in Gen II. - [[User:Blazios|Blazios]] [[User Talk:Blazios|talk]] 09:29, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
::::::::ALDER is the last, not Ghetsis man. ALDER uses VOLCARONA, not Hydreigon. [[User:Shiramu Kuromu|Shiramu Kuromu]] 17:15, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
:::::::::The ''main story'' ends with Ghetsis, not Alder. Alder is postgame. - [[User:Blazios|Blazios]] [[User Talk:Blazios|talk]] 17:56, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

== METAGROSS ==

In BW you can find wild Metang and metagross in Giant Casm. So it is'nt really a Pseudo-Legandary. --[[User:Nazirbashir|Nazirbashir]] 11:04, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
:And you can find wild Dragonair and Dragonite near the Dragonsprial Tower. What does not being found in the wild have to do with being a pseudo legendary? --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 11:13, 7 May 2011 (UTC)

== Did anyone mention... ==
that ALL Pseudo-Legendaries have immunities? It's true you know.
:It was in the trivia section, I swear...must've been removed for some reason (wtf deletionists) [[User:Frugali|Frugali]] 09:08, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
: : Kind of pointless to mention because they are not the only one with immunities. Lots of Pokemon have immunities to one type or another. [[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen Fennec]]

== Coincidences. ==

Didn't want to start an edit war, so I'm just going to post here to see what others think. So far as i know, and as far as I believe the fandom is concerned, the only defining traits of a pseudo legend are that they have a base stat total of 600 and that they evolve. I myself was unaware that they all need 1.25 million experience points to hit level 100. Does anyone else think that that fact in the definition in the opening paragraph is extraneous? [[User:RB Golbat|RB Golbat]] 15:20, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
:Simply put, no. Espially if all six of them have that trait. [[User:Truthseeker4449|Truth]][[User talk:Truthseeker4449|seeker]][[Special:Contributions/Truthseeker4449|4449]] 02:05, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
::Let's face it, you ask anyone who plays Pokemon, and they'll give you the 600 BST Evolution definition. Did Nintendo give them all the same amount of experience at level 100 on purpose? Probably. Is that how people define Pseudo Legendary? No. And since this page is a fan definition, then it should use what most people refer to it as. [[User:RB Golbat|RB Golbat]] 02:15, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
:::Many Pokémon need 1.25 Million exp to get to level 100, but they're not classed as Pseudo legendary (for obvius reasons such as Base stat=/=600). So I agree with RB, remove it.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F''']][[Reshiram (Pokémon)|orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F''']][[Zekrom (Pokémon)|ire]] 02:22, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
::::It's been a week since I last asked, and it's a 1-1 split by people who aren't me. So here is a one week bump to try to solicit opinions, before seeing that no one else cares and changing it back to the way i changed it. [[User:RB Golbat|RB Golbat]] 14:50, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

== Slaking ==

I am aware that an argument has already been brought up to add Slaking to the list. I think it should be added, for the following reasons. From what I understand, the definition here of a Pseudo-Legendary is (a) it can't be legendary. (b) It must evolve twice. It is not part of the definition that all of them must be dual typed, nor that they must have an immunity. This is simply a trait that all of the current members of the list happen to share. The third part of the current definition is that all of them must have exactly 600 BST. This is the part I don't understand. I can understand why it would be nice to have a requirement for at least 600, but why does it have to be exact? This brings us to Slaking. It has the highest base stats of any non-legendary. It evolves twice. Why should it be denied the position of being pseudo-legendary for being too powerful? Pseudo-legendary means "resembling a legendary", and legendaries are supposed to be powerful. There are 16 legendaries with a BST over 600, and 11 even higher than Slaking's. In terms of its lack of a second type, 22 out of 47 legendaries are single-typed. Slaking's lack of a second type definitely should not exclude it from being a pseudo-legendary. [[User:Tk3141|Tk3141]] 22:19, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
:''Slaking, though not pseudo-legendary, has the highest base stats of all non-legendary Pokémon and one immunity, to the Ghost-type. However, it lacks some factors: a base-stat total of 600 and a secondary type. Slaking is also hindered by its ability, Truant, which is likely the reason for its high stats. '' From this page. However I would say the biggest reason it is not on here is because Truant truly cripples any astounding power it has. The only time to experience its true full potential is in a double battle with a Pokemon that uses Skill Swap on it so it can attack every turn rather than half the turns. ''[[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen]] [[User talk:Frozen Fennec|Fennec]]'' 22:24, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
::As I mentioned above, however, I don't think that a secondary type or an exact BST should be part of the definition. Yes, Truant does cripple Slaking, but it is technically speculation which says that this is the reason for its high stats. It is a non-legendary that has an even higher BST than any others on the list. [[User:Tk3141|Tk3141]] 02:22, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
:::It is a fandom-defined term. This is the definition. We only report was it, not make it the way it is. The fandom says BST must equal 600, so Slaking is not pseudo-legendary. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 12:28, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
::::Might we want to review this definition, though? If we want the list to consist of those who are "like legendaries", we shouldn't restrict the list to dual types, as almost half of legendaries are single-typed. Similarly, less than half of legendaries have a BST of exactly 600. "The fandom" is, in my opinion, a vague term; it can't be that everybody agrees on the same point. [[User:Tk3141|Tk3141]] 16:22, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
:::::This page is a description of a fan term which describes all Pokémon which have, thus far, followed a specific pattern. Until the fans choose to recognize a Pokémon which Game Freak has made defy the pattern, no changes to the definition should be needed.--[[User:MisterE13|Mister]][[User talk:MisterE13|'''E''']][[Special:Contributions/MisterE13|13]] 00:21, 9 March 2012 (UTC)
::::::Pseudo-legendary, while it does mean "like legendary", it is not a group that includes all Pokémon that are similar to legendary Pokémon, it is a group of Pokémon that follow a certain pattern (which causes them to be powerful). "The fandom" refers to the general fan consensus; not everybody agrees, but most people concede to this definition. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 06:01, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

== So seriously, what's the definition? ==

As I pointed out above (and nearly no one responded), if the sixth gen introduces a non-legendary Pokemon with a 600 BST with only one type will we say that it's not pseudolegendary, or will we just change the definition of what a psuedolegendary is? Why is having two types or a specific level-up curve considered a ''necessary condition'' to being a pseudolegendary rather than just a trait all of the current ones happen to have? Indeed, given that you can completely remove either restriction or both of them and not change the list of pseudolegendary Pokemon ''at all'' (you can't do so with the 600 BST or the fact that they come from evolutionary families), I'd say Occam's Razor would slice away those unnecessary conditions. --[[User:HeroicJay|HeroicJay]] 07:09, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
: PS. I'd like to point out that the opening paragraph used to mention that all pseudos had Attack as their highest stat, though it wisely did not include that as a part of the definition of what makes a pseudo a pseudo. [[Hydreigon|Now it doesn't say that any more.]] Just sayin'. --[[User:HeroicJay|HeroicJay]] 07:26, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
::The pseudolegendaries are variations on a theme. The dual types and stats are part of that theme. Single type would suggest that there's an underlying difference. Experience group makes them hard to raise, suggesting that they're all very similar. Like PP of moves, experience group is an indicator of the similarity of Pokemon. If Nintendo feel the need to make it a lower experience group, that makes it easier to raise, suggesting that there are underlying differences - the Pokemon are not considered equal. Stats like that aren't just a random choice. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] [[User talk:Werdnae|(talk)]] 20:01, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
:::I can't say I agree. We can say that the two types and the level-up curve are traits they all have, at present, but how is it part of the definition? If you remove those restrictions, the number of pseudolegendary Pokemon remains six, so those restrictions aren't helping with the definition and just unnecessarily restrict possible future psuedolegendaries. I was asked to provide a source that they're not necessary. Where's the source that they are? I mean, let's say, totally hypothetically, that one made a page called "Pikachu Clones" back in the fourth gen, discussing Pokemon such as Pichu, Plusle, Minun, and Pachirisu. (The usefulness of such a page isn't the point; let's just say that one existed.) At the time, they decided to define the Pokemon as "Cute mono-Electric-type Pokemon that have a resemblence to Pikachu. Aside from Pichu and Pikachu, none of the Pikachu clones evolve." Are you to say that, when the fifth gen came out, this hypothetical page would have been wrong to alter its definition and include Emolga? If so, why? And if not, then why did the definition need to include the "mono-" part of it at all if it's unnecessarily limiting and so easily discarded? --[[User:HeroicJay|HeroicJay]] 20:57, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
::::I personally don't think having two types should be part of the definition; I don't see a pure Dragon-type pseudo legendary Pokemon being that unlikely. I did a quick search, and I couldn't find any other non-forum giving a definition of pseudo-legendary Pokemon, so there is nothing stating either way. However, I would say experience group is just as important as BST. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 12:42, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
:::::No, I still stand against it. I'm being treated like I'm trying to redefine which Pokemon are pseudolegendary, and, yes, I do see that others have tried. But I'm not. Removing these two restrictions does nothing. It's Dragonite, Tyranitar, Salamence, Metagross, Garchomp, and Hydreigon now. It'll be Dragonite, Tyranitar, Salamence, Metagross, Garchomp, and Hydreigon if you remove those restrictions.
:::::Who made the call that they're necessary to the definition? I've been asked to source that they're not. Why must I prove the negative? It's the positive case that requires proof! Should I add a [citation needed] to the definition?
:::::If you were to remove the 600 BST part of the defintion, and still keep everything else, you'd add things like Aggron and Rhyperior to the list, so we can't do that.
:::::The "three-stage evolutionary family" thing comes off to me as a roundabout way of saying "not legendary", but I'm fine with it since legendary status can be arguable (the Legendary page on this very wiki is unsure on Phione, and even though I strongly disagree, I've even seen modern fans try to argue Rotom's legendary status.) And without it, Jirachi and Landorus are brought into the list of "pseudolegendaries", so obviously that restriction is necessary, regardless of the wording.
:::::But why type combos? Why experience groups? Removing them changes what? Is there a 600-BST three-stage mono-type family in the medium-slow group that is clearly not pseudolegendary I'm somehow unfamiliar with? (Well, Slaking has a 6'''7'''0 BST and three stages and is a monotype, though he is in the Slow group, but... Truant is all it takes to convince me he's not a proper pseudolegendary. And he's the closest there is, besides the obvious six!)
:::::As I said, if you were to put on the side (in Trivia or something) that all of them, at present, are dualtypes in the Slow experience group, you wouldn't see me argue - it's true, after all. But to put it in the definition, as if to say "Pokémon without these traits can't be pseudolegendary"... I jusst don't see it. --[[User:HeroicJay|HeroicJay]] 18:31, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
::::::Thing is, pseudo-legendary is the observation of a pattern and nothing more. When they all fit it and it is likely that they will continue fitting a condition, it should be treated as part of the definition. No, removing the experience group condition does not remove anything, but that condition is really for restricting what we may get next generation. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 15:02, 2 June 2012 (UTC)
:::::::Next generation, if we get a Pokemon with a BST of 600 who is at the top of a three-stage evolution family in the medium-slow experience group instead of slow, and it doesn't have any major negative traits like Truant, do you really think the fandom isn't going to call it a pseudo-legendary? Do you honestly believe most of the fandom - who defined the term - even cares about experience curves that much? And can you provide a source on it? --[[User:HeroicJay|HeroicJay]] 22:41, 2 June 2012 (UTC)
::::::::There is no source (BP was the only fansite I could find that actually defined pseudo-legendary outside of "means Dragonite, Tyranitar, Metagross, Garchomp, Hydreigon"), because GF has never officially mentioned the pattern anywhere, but the pattern is obvious enough that the fandom has noticed it. Knowing the fandom—who tried and push Volcarona and Haxorus into being pseudo-legendary—there will certainly be many people who think it should be. However, it won't truly be one. I don't see that ever happening though, as experience group is part of the pattern. Even if something had a BST of 600, three-stage evolutionary family and medium-slow experience group but had Truant, it would still be pseudo-legendary. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 15:18, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
:::::::::Isn't that a contradiction? (Did you get your experience groups confused?) And if something can be pseudolegendary with Truant, then Slaking should definitely count, since his stats are way higher than the existing pseudolegendaries (NOTE: I do not consider Slaking a pseudolegendary, I'm just saying that the logic doesn't flow.) --[[User:HeroicJay|HeroicJay]] 18:21, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
::::::::::Truant is irrelevant; its BST is not 600, so it does not fit the pattern. And yes, I meant slow experience group (I meant to check that before I saved). --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 12:31, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
:::::::::::I would argue that, though it's not a very specific or encyclopedic definition, a pseudo-legendary Pokemon would be a non-legendary Pokemon as strong, stat-wise, as legendaries. By that simple definition, Slaking easily fits the bill... or, rather, he would, except Truant limits his strength. (Well, Regigigas is similarly hindered, but all the same...) Now that said, all pseudos that exist have 600; there's no argument here and it works to say it. But the rest of it is redundant, adds nothing to the definition, and is something we'll just have to retcon away the moment GameFreak decides to contradict it.
:::::::::::BTW, Does ''anyone else at all'' have any input? Anyone? I've notived that a lot of Bulbapedia discussions go nowhere fast; at best, they wind up arguments between two or three users, like, say, this one. --[[User:HeroicJay|HeroicJay]] 22:59, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
::::::::::::If you ask any fan what they define psuedo legendary as, they would say a three stage evolution line with a 600 BST in the final stage. Two types and experience are not what you would get with most fans definition. Since this is a fandom term, we should use the definition most fans use. [[User:RB Golbat|RB Golbat]] ([[User talk:RB Golbat|talk]]) 21:47, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
:::::::::::::Pesudo-legendary is a fan term to describe an intentional pattern. Experience group is part of this part of the pattern. Therefore, it should be considered part of the definition. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 03:06, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
::::::::::::::It's part of the "pattern" that people only learn about when they read this page. Regardless of if it's a pattern or not, it's not what the fandom defined definition is. [[User:RB Golbat|RB Golbat]] ([[User talk:RB Golbat|talk]]) 03:15, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
(unindenting) [http://www.smogon.com/smog/issue21/best_of_best Here is one example] of the term being define without the dual typing or the experience mentioned. I'm sure I can find more online later when not at work. [[User:RB Golbat|RB Golbat]] ([[User talk:RB Golbat|talk]]) 10:47, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

== Champion Iris with Hydreigon ==

You should add that. [[User:Chomper4|Chomper4]] ([[User talk:Chomper4|talk]]) 00:36, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

== Pseudo-Pseudo-Legendary ==

Maybe we should have a pseudo-pseudo legendary page or section for all the almost pseudo-legendary pokemon (That don't quite fit the requirements but are still considered near-legendary pokemon. This is just after reading the whole talk page about the controversy... {{unsigned|Yor2cool}}
:That would result in debates over what counts as almost fitting the category. The definition debates all assume the same Pokémon as already part of the group. There are no Pokémon that are debatably pseudo-legendary Pokémon. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 12:49, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

== Something unique about Metagross ==

Should it be noted that Metagross is the only Pseudo who doesn't resist, but in fact has a weakness to, fire? [[User:DragonMasterNeal|DragonMasterNeal]] ([[User talk:DragonMasterNeal|talk]]) 19:10, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

== Ability capitalization ==

A user with permission could change "ability" to "Ability" in the Tyranitar section. [[User:Yvnr|Yvnr]] ([[User talk:Yvnr|talk]]) 19:01, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

== Seriously? ==

Why is this page protected? I wanted to add something to Others. [[User:Stickipedia|Stickipedia]] ([[User talk:Stickipedia|talk]]) 21:51, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
:As the protection log notes: "''As this is a subject of constant debate, editing is restricted. Requests can be made on the talk page.''" - [[User:Kogoro|'''Kogoro''']] '''-''' [[User talk:Kogoro|'''Talk to me''']] - 21:57, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

== Tyranitar as main Pokemon of an NPC trainer ==

* "Only pseudo-legendary Pokémon that is not the main Pokémon of a major boss at the end of the game it was introduced in. However, Tyranitar was used by Blue in Pokémon FireRed and LeafGreen Versions, but only in his rematch."

Tyranitar (as a [[Shadow Pokémon]]) was also [[Evice]]'s main Pokémon, in the final battle of [[Pokémon Colosseum]]. I think this is an interesting addition we can make to that note. --''[[User:Stratelier|Stratelier]]'' 05:18, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

== Minor RFEs ==

Playing the Grammar Nazi card....

Under the Metagross section, there is this line:

:"This is likely why Metagross is the only pseudo-legendary Pokémon not to be used by Lance in any game, as he prefers Dragon-type and '''draconian''' Pokémon."

The correct word is ''draconic''; the word 'draconian' means '[http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/draconian severely harsh or strict]'.

And under Garchomp's section:

:"It '''compliments''' these attributes with '''it's''' Ground typing,"

Wrong 'its', no apostrophe required. And it should probably use compl'''e'''ment instead of compl'''i'''ment.

--''[[User:Stratelier|Stratelier]]'' 05:29, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

== Use by gym leaders ==

Should we add some of the gym leaders (in their various types of rematches and the PWT) as users of the pseudo-legendaries, and possibly the Elite Four? For example, Brock with Tyranitar and Giovanni and Clair with Garchomp. --[[User:Darthrai|Darthrai]] ([[User talk:Darthrai|talk]]) 01:28, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

== Pokémon Pages ==
I'm bringing this up here because it seems silly to go to each individual page to say it...
Should the Pokémon's actual pages really say that they're "pseudo-legendary Pokémon" up at the top? I mean, by definition it is a '''fan term''', so I don't think it belongs there with their typing and evolutionary patterns. Maybe in their trivia sections, but not there. It looks very unprofessional to stick a fan-term at the top of the pages of these Pokémon, otherwise you might as well change Snivy's opening text to "Snivy (fannon: Smugleaf)". It's just as ridiculous. [[User:Me, Hurray!|Me, Hurray!]] ([[User talk:Me, Hurray!|talk]]) 14:11, 26 July 2013 (UTC)
Actually, a better comparison would be changing all of Eevee's evolutionary family pages to say "X is a Y-type Eeveelution". What I'm saying is, I don't think fan terminology belongs there. [[User:Me, Hurray!|Me, Hurray!]] ([[User talk:Me, Hurray!|talk]]) 14:14, 26 July 2013 (UTC)
:Eeveelution has actually became canon term (first used in [http://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/8/8c/Pok%C3%A9mon_Stadium_2_-_Nintendo_Player%27s_Guide_p120.jpg Stadium 2 guide], then later in TCG Theme Deck... plus in-game in Shadows of Almia). [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] ([[User talk:Marked +-+-+|talk]]) 14:22, 26 July 2013 (UTC)
::Fine, make that edit then, but that's not my point. "Pseudo-legendary" is not an official term, its a fan term. This is not Smogon, this is an encyclopaedia. [[User:Me, Hurray!|Me, Hurray!]] ([[User talk:Me, Hurray!|talk]]) 14:08, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

== Edit request ==

Since this page seems to be under indefinite protection, I'm forced to request here instead of waiting out the protection. There are three instances of the word '''typing''' being incorrectly used as a noun, which you can find by CTRL+F. Can these please be changed to simply '''type'''? [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 17:43, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

== Metagross in Gen III ==

I think it is worth mentioning that Metagross is the only pseudo-legendary that cannot be obtain in the generation it was released in, before defeating the elite four. [[User:Benjabby|Benjabby]] ([[User talk:Benjabby|talk]]) 10:19, 15 August 2013 (UTC)
:The same goes for Tyranitar.--'''[[User:Dennou Zenshi|電禅]][[User talk:Dennou Zenshi|Den Zen]]''' 10:24, 15 August 2013 (UTC)

== Trivia ==

Should it be added that only [[Tyranitar]] and [[Metagross]] aren't partially dragon-type? [[User:Nutter Butter|Nutter Butter]] ([[User talk:Nutter Butter|talk]]) 20:23, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
:[[Pseudo-legendary Pokémon#Other|It is there.]]--'''[[User:Dennou Zenshi|電禅]][[User talk:Dennou Zenshi|Den Zen]]''' 20:48, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

== Goodra ==

So, if Goodra is to be included, it would mean A) Goodra is the first pure type, B) Goodra has the highest Sp.Def./the only 1 with Sp.Def. its highest stat/has the lowest Att. C) Dragonite is no longer the only pseudo portrayed as friendly, D) Hydreigon is no longer the only pseudo with a type immunity via ability (Goodra's Sap Sipper), E) Goodra is the only pseudo who is not necessarily immune to a type (since it has 2 other abilities), F) Goodra is the only pseudo with additional evolutionary conditions, G) Goodra is the only pseudo whose mid-stage is available in its debut games. Anything else? --[[User:Mr. Bonding|Mr. Bonding]] ([[User talk:Mr. Bonding|talk]]) 01:34, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

<blockquote> "Dragonite is no longer the only pseudo portrayed as friendly" </blockquote>
:Wait what? I'm going to need explanation for this one. [[User:Benjabby|Benjabby]] ([[User talk:Benjabby|talk]]) 20:00, 10 November 2013 (UTC)
::Dragonite-Guides crews of shipwrecks to shore, kindhearted. Goodra-Hugs trainer. [[User:RespectThePixel|RespectThePixel]] ([[User talk:RespectThePixel|talk]]) 00:51, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

== There are seven pseudo-legendaries now ==

enough said. ~--[[User:Dapianoman|Dapianoman]] ([[User talk:Dapianoman|talk]]) 01:45, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

== Users ==

Goodra is also used by Shauna in X&Y. Just a small thing that I would add if I could :L [[User:Benjabby|Benjabby]] ([[User talk:Benjabby|talk]]) 19:44, 10 November 2013 (UTC)
:It's already in the article. --[[User:S2daam|--samm :D]] 19:55, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

== Goodra Description ==

Shall I make the description for Goodra or is someone else assigned to it? [[User:RespectThePixel|RespectThePixel]] ([[User talk:RespectThePixel|talk]]) 00:55, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

== Images for Goomy and Sligoo on the chart ==

You messed it up. Goomy's image is where Sliggoo's should be and vice versa. [[User:StongRadd|StongRadd]] ([[User talk:StongRadd|talk]]) 03:01, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

== Mega Evolutions ==

Should it be noted that Tyranitar and Garchomp both receive Mega Evolutions in Gen VI?--[[User:Darkmaster|Darkmaster]] ([[User talk:Darkmaster|talk]]) 04:58, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

== Counting error ==

With the addition of Goodra, there are now seven pseudo-legendary Pokemon, not 6. pikalax 22:44, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

== Mistaken ==

Pseudo-legendary is a fanmade term, and the definition of pseudo-legendary varies from fan to fan. So why does it say Pokémon like Flygon, Aggron, Kingdra, et cetera are mistaken for pseudo-legendaries? While they may not be pseudo-legendaries in one fan's terms, Garchomp may not be pseudo-legendary in another fan's terms. [[User:Bill Gates|Bill Gates]] ([[User talk:Bill Gates|talk]]) 21:53, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
:They are not pseudo-legendary by the definition agreed upon by Bulbapedia and metagame websites. Individual people who don't bother to look into things like stats may mistakenly think that "pseudo-legendary" is just a term that means nearly or almost legendary, when it is actually a very specific term for a very specific kind of Pokemon. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 21:57, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
::Most metagame websites don't list Goodra as pseudo-legendary. [[User:Bill Gates|Bill Gates]] ([[User talk:Bill Gates|talk]]) 17:49, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
:::But according to Bulbapedia's description of a pseudo-legendary, and unless I am very mistaken, this wiki is indeed Bulbapedia, it is a pseudo-legendary, which is why it's on the page. ☆[[User:Solar Dragon|The]] [[User talk:Solar Dragon|Solar]] [[Special:Contributions/Solar Dragon|Dragon]]☆ 17:51, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
::::Bulbapedia's description is not the only description out there, and my point is no Pokémon can be "mistaken" for a pseudo-legendary. [[User:Bill Gates|Bill Gates]] ([[User talk:Bill Gates|talk]]) 01:14, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
:::::Yes, but this is Bulbapedia, that is the description that Bulbapedia has settled on for what a pseudo legendary is and so that is why Goodra is on the list. There are other definitions out there with some of those other Pokémon coming into them, which is why, by Bulbapedia's definition, they are mistaken. ☆[[User:Solar Dragon|The]] [[User talk:Solar Dragon|Solar]] [[Special:Contributions/Solar Dragon|Dragon]]☆ 22:45, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
::::::Pseudo-legendary is a fan term to describe an existing pattern. Goodra fits this pattern, so it is pseudo-legendary. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 03:18, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

== mainly shared weakness? ==

I've noticed every single pseudo-legendary has the fairy weakness besides metagross. That could be something to consider. {{unsigned|Nerdandrew}}
:Sure, notable trivia if all of them had the weakness. However, "All but one" is not notable trivia. ☆[[User:Solar Dragon|The]] [[User talk:Solar Dragon|Solar]] [[Special:Contributions/Solar Dragon|Dragon]]☆ 16:43, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
::I think it can be added to the "Individual characteristics" section, though.--'''[[User:Dennou Zenshi|電禅]][[User talk:Dennou Zenshi|Den Zen]]''' 16:51, 23 November 2013 (UTC)

== Information about Goodra ==

Can admins add information about Goodra since the page is locked, thank you and remember it is the only pseudo-legendary to have one type: Dragon (which it usually had). [[User:Cinday123|Cinday123]] ([[User talk:Cinday123|talk]]) 04:35, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

== "All pseudo-legendary Pokémon have appeared in the anime" ==

Which isn't true, now that we have Goodra with Gen VI. Alteration, maybe? -- [[User:Pringles|Pringles]] 05:05, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
:By the end of any given generation, all Pokemon (regardless of pseudo-legendary status) have appeared in the anime except Porygon2 and Porygon-Z, so I feel like saying that on this page is unnecessary altogether. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 05:12, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

== Sprites into artwork ==

Can any admin turn these sprites into artwork since the page is protected. [[User:Cinday123|Cinday123]] ([[User talk:Cinday123|talk]]) 05:21, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

Admins, since we're in Generation VI, could you turn sprites into artwork so that is my commet above. And turn Goodra's Dream World artwork into a Sugimori artwork. [[User:Cinday123|Cinday123]] ([[User talk:Cinday123|talk]]) 05:03, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
:Thanks, one down, six to go, can you turn Dragonite, Tyraniter, Salamence, Metagross, Garchomp and Hydreigon's sprites into artwork? [[User:Cinday123|Cinday123]] ([[User talk:Cinday123|talk]]) 05:33, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

== Only pseudo-legendary Pokémon to not have any 4× weaknesses. ==

This is false. With the introduction of Goodra, Metagross is no longer the only pseudo-legendary with 4x weaknesses. Goodra has only one type, and therefore can't have any 4x weakness. I would edit this myself, but I can't. [[User:Svolur|Svolur]] ([[User talk:Svolur|talk]]) 04:23, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

== Error regarding Sliggoo ==

"Pseudo-legendary Pokémon are obtainable in the wild strictly in their first form for the first paired games of their generation." This is not true since in X/Y there are wild Sliggoo. [[User:Shepeedy|Shepeedy]] ([[User talk:Shepeedy|talk]]) 12:59, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
:"Due to having the same typing as Dragonite, Salamence differs itself by being entirely focused on attacking prowess. It's stats are high in Attack, Special Attack, and Speed, while comparatively low in both Defense stats." Please correct that "it's" and ban whoever wrote it. [[User:Shepeedy|Shepeedy]] ([[User talk:Shepeedy|talk]]) 23:07, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
:Another typo on the page: "psuedo-legendary". --[[User:Raijinili|Raijinili]] ([[User talk:Raijinili|talk]]) 09:10, 26 December 2013 (UTC)

== A few changes... ==

:1. (3.2.8 Other) Dragonite and Tyranitar's Special Defenses of 100 pale in comparison to Goodra's 150.
:2. (3.3 Users) Last I checked, Shauna is neither an Elite 4 member nor a Champion, and so should probably be included in the second list (which, by the way, already has more than three examples, with two of them being outside of Diamond, Pearl and Platinum).
:3. (4 In the anime) "newly introduced" should be changed to "newly-introduced".
Thanks. -- [[User:EnosShayrem|EnosShayrem]][[User_talk:EnosShayrem|talk]] 02:35, 8 January 2014 (UTC)
:On that last one — it's incorrect to use a hyphen after a -ly word, per AP style guidelines. I quote from the AP Stylebook 2012, page 301 of the punctuation guide, under the entry on hyphens: ''"COMPOUND MODIFIERS: When a compound modifier — two or more words that express as single concept — precedes a noun, use hyphens to link all the words in the compound except the adverb very and all adverbs that end in -ly."'' [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 02:53, 8 January 2014 (UTC)
::Ah! You learn something new every day. Also, a few more things:
:::4. (2 Characteristics) That second paragraph needs rewriting; I propose: "The base stages of pseudo-legendary Pokémon have base stat totals of 300, while their first evolutions have base stat totals of 420, excluding Pupitar and Gabite, which have 410. In general, pseudo-legendary Pokémon have Attack as their highest stat. This is not the case with Hydreigon and Goodra, which have Special Attack and Special Defense as their highest stats, respectively."
:::5. (3.2.1 Dragonite) The last sentence should be removed, what with the very affectionate, and might I add adorable, Goodra.
:::6. (3.3 Users) It should be somehow mentioned that in Black and White 2's Challenge Mode, Caitlin's use of Metagross extends to her first battle.
::-- [[User:EnosShayrem|EnosShayrem]][[User_talk:EnosShayrem|talk]] 02:55, 8 January 2014 (UTC)
::::Did 5 and 6. I have removed the entire "Characteristics" section because it was just making statements that kept building up more and more exceptions. 1 was dealt with ages ago. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 02:37, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

== Goomy line's catch rate ==

It was confirmed that the Goomy line's catch rate is 20, not 45, will admins add information about the catch rates because this line and the Beldum line do not have a catch rate of 45. --[[User:Cinday123|Cinday123]] ''([[User talk:Cinday123|Talk]])'' 02:56, 22 January 2014 (UTC)
:Oh sorry, we don't know the Goomy line's catch rate until the catch rates of Kalos Pokémon are from the official sources, my bad. --[[User:Cinday123|Cinday123]] ''([[User talk:Cinday123|Talk]])'' 07:08, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

==Spelling and the Goomy line==
Because Legendary Pokémon are spelled as 'legendary', could someone change it to 'Legendary' according to a user's Pokémon Syntax? Also, the Goomy line are not next to the Legendary Pokémon and Sliggoo doesn't have a BST of 420, which instead had a BST of 452. --[[User:Cinday123|Cinday123]] ''([[User talk:Cinday123|Talk]])'' 07:08, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
:I'm happy to leave "psuedo-legendary" as that, since it's a fan term and doesn't necessarily have to fit the same capitalization standard as "Legendary Pokémon". This is mainly because I don't feel like going through and doing all the relinking though—it would be way easier conceptually if it was written as "pseudo-Legendary". --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 02:37, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

== Additional fact ==

Under the list of exceptions to the Elite Four and Champions being the only people to use pseudo-legendaries, can someone add that Roark uses a Tyranitar during the rematches at the Battleground in Platinum? [[User:Aggron989|''AGG'']][[User talk:Aggron989|''RON'']][[Special:Contributions/Aggron989|''989'']] 22:21, 20 March 2014 (UTC)
:That whole exceptions section was meant to be for only the three Trainers in DPPt that used pseudo-legendaries, but it just kept building up with examples from other games. I've removed it, since it is no longer accurate. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 02:37, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

== Pokédex placement ==

"With the exception of the Garchomp and Hydreigon evolutionary lines, pseudo-legendary Pokémon are usually situated adjacent to the legendary trios in the Pokédexes of their respective generations"

This line actually isn't correct anymore, the Goodra line is next to Karrablast and Quagsire in regional, with Klefki in national. And since it's only one 4/7 of the Pokémon, I don't think it's really notable anymore. -[[User:IVsaur|EVsandIVsaurs]] 15:31, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
:Correct. [[User:Pikachu Bros.|Pikachu Bros.]] ([[User talk:Pikachu Bros.|talk]]) 16:56, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
::I have removed the entire "Characteristics" section because it was just making statements that kept building up more and more exceptions. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 02:37, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

== This Page Should Be Deleted ==

<nowiki>*</nowiki>Rolls Eyes* This is a wiki, and wikis deal in factual information, not user-created lists and categories... By this logic, every wiki for game that have mod support should have an individual page for every user-created mod. I don't see a legitimate reason as to why this page should exist, as it in no way fits in with the content template every page on Bulbapedia is based off of... [[User:Ulithium Dragon|Ulithium Dragon]] ([[User talk:Ulithium Dragon|talk]]) 21:59, 4 April 2014 (UTC)
:See [[{{FULLPAGENAME}}#What???|What???]]. [[User:Pikachu Bros.|Pikachu Bros.]] ([[User talk:Pikachu Bros.|talk]]) 22:04, 4 April 2014 (UTC)
::This page desribes a clear pattern of Pokémon that Game Freak has put into the game. We just use he fan name to describe them, because there is no official one. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 02:37, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

== Does three stage evolution really matters? ==

I got a doubt, does three stage evolution really matters, because many pokemon like heracross has a base stat of 600 and is a dual Bug/Fighting type. Its signature move Megahorn is the most powerful bug type move, and it's movepool contains some powerful moves like Earthquack and Focuspunch with its base stat comes par with legendary pokemon and even has 4x damage on celebi. [[User:Tgage|Tgage]] ([[User talk:Tgage|talk]]) 12:59, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
:Yes it does, it is a vital part of the definition. By the same logic, you could ask if the 600 base stat total really matters.--'''[[User:Dennou Zenshi|電禅]][[User talk:Dennou Zenshi|Den Zen]]''' 13:12, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

== Dragonite's height ==

I saw that Tyranitar and Goodra are not the tallest non-Mega Evolved pseudo-legendary Pokémon, Dragonite is according to its height, could someone change it now? --[[User:Cinday123|Cinday123]] ''([[User talk:Cinday123|Talk]])'' 04:17, 28 April 2014 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 08:00, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

== Miss a trainer ==

Colress had a Metagross in his final match in Plasma Frigate --[[User:HoopsterJohn|HoopsterJohn]] ([[User talk:HoopsterJohn|talk]]) 21:22, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

== salamence ==

salamence is used by iris during rematches--[[User:Just a simple edit|Just a simple edit]] ([[User talk:Just a simple edit|talk]]) 20:13, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

== Minor fix - Bad wikilink on Garchomp ==

Should instead link to the subheading which Garchomp is under; http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/List_of_Pok%C3%A9mon_with_gender_differences#Generation_IV_Pok.C3.A9mon instead of just a link to the page.{{unsigned|Pokepro97}}

==Edit request==
In Metagross's section under individual characteristics, it says that Metagross is the only pseudo-legendary Pokemon to not be used by Lance, but this isn't the case since Goodra has been introduced (as far as I know). Could someone remove or edit that line? [[User:Slimey01|'''slimey''']][[User talk:Slimey01|'''01''']] 18:26, 12 October 2014 (UTC)

== Base Stat Averages ==

As far as I'm concerned, the current base stat averages for this page are outdated. They do not take Goodra's stats into account, only averaging the Base stats of all pseudo-legendaries up to Hydreigon. From my calculations, the Base Stats averages (with Goodra's base stats into account) currently are an average HP stat of 93.71, an average Attack of 127.57, an average Defense of 95.71, an average Special Attack of 102.14, an average Special Defense of 99.29, and an average Speed of 84.43. If someone could update the Base Stat averages with these that would be neat. [[User:ScraftyIsTheBest|AmourShipper]] ([[User talk:ScraftyIsTheBest|talk]]) 03:07, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

== "A weaknesses"...? ==

In the Metagross subsection, one of the sentences says: "Only pseudo-legendary Pokémon to not have a weaknesses(Note the "es" at the end of "Weakness") to Fairy-type moves."

"a weaknesses" sounds incorrect, and it must be "a weakness". Thanks! --[[User:HoennLove200|HoennLove200]] ([[User talk:HoennLove200|talk]]) 16:01, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

== Hydreigon ==

Hydreigon is confirmed to have a double weakness to Fairy, unlike other psuedo-legendaries(Please note the Metagross is not weak to Fairy). --[[User:HoennLove200|HoennLove200]] ([[User talk:HoennLove200|talk]]) 16:43, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

== Base Stat Comparison ==

Perhaps we could have a chart showing a comparison of their base stats like the Legendary pages and others have? [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] ([[User talk:Drake Clawfang|talk]]) 05:34, 17 January 2015 (UTC)
:Guess no? [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] ([[User talk:Drake Clawfang|talk]]) 18:31, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
::I think it's a decent idea, although it would require the creation of a new template. Currently we have {{template|fivepokemonstats}} and {{template|Groupstats/8}}, but nothing for 7. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 19:12, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
:::Well, it'll be easy to make. 8 started as 7 and was moved and modified for 8 with Sylveon's release. I'll grab the coding from a previous revision and take care of it now. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] ([[User talk:Drake Clawfang|talk]]) 19:17, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
:::Well, my memory is crap, not how it went at all. Still, looks like we did have [[Template:Groupstats/7]] at one time. Can we restore that? [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] ([[User talk:Drake Clawfang|talk]]) 19:18, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
::::Oh, didn't even realize it used to be a thing. I should have, since I was involved in it, but oh well. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 12:18, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

== Goodra ==

Following the evolution of Ash's Sliggoo, the anime section is going to need updating. I'd do it myself but the page is protected. -'''''[[Shadow Sneak (move)|Sneaking]] from page to page... It's the page-editing purple ghost... [[User:Gengarzilla|Gengar]][[User talk:Gengarzilla|zilla!]]''''' 18:45, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
:[[File:132Ditto.png|50px]] --[[User:PKMNAdventurer|PKMNAdventurer]] ([[User talk:PKMNAdventurer|talk]]) 17:25, 29 March 2015 (UTC)
::Done. If you have any suggestions on better wording, let me know.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 03:16, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
:::Not to be nitpicky, but I think the sentence at the beginning of the anime section also needs to have the part about Goodra removed from it. [[User:Aggron989|''AGG'']][[User talk:Aggron989|''RON'']][[Special:Contributions/Aggron989|''989'']] 03:20, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

== Rotating pictures for "In the anime" section ==

[[File:{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 7}}|0=Iris Dragonite|1=Dirk Tyranitar|2=Salamence anime|3=Rebecca Metagross|4=Cynthia Garchomp|5=Cameron Hydreigon|6=Ash Goodra|}}.png|thumb|right|200px|{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 7}}|0=Dragonite|1=Tyranitar|2=Salamence|3=Metagross|4=Garchomp|5=Hydreidon|6=Goodra|}} in the anime]] Can someone update the picture in the anime section so it would rotate between all of the Psudo-legendary Pokémon instead of only showing one of them, like so?
--[[User:PKMNAdventurer|PKMNAdventurer]] ([[User talk:PKMNAdventurer|talk]]) 21:59, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
:Rotating images are bad. Readers have no idea that the image rotates. Either stick them all in a gallery, or just pick one. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 04:53, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

== Stats ==

The base stat averages don't take into account Goodra's stats. The stat averages should be updated to: 
HP: 93.71 
Attack: 124.71 
Defense: 95.71 
Sp. Atk: 102.14 
Sp. Def: 99.29 
Speed: 84.43 
[[User:Lillihaxo|Lillihaxo]] ([[User talk:Lillihaxo|talk]]) 08:49, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

== Kalos Dex ==

The Metagross line is the only one not in the Kalos Dex. [[User:SirOni|SirOni]] ([[User talk:SirOni|talk]]) 23:25, 28 October 2015 (UTC)SirOni

== Edit request for definition of "pseudo-legendary" ==

"'''Pseudo-legendary Pokémon''' (Japanese: '''{{tt|擬似伝説|ぎじでんせつ}}''' ''pseudo-legendary'') is a fan term commonly used to refer to any Pokémon that has a three-stage [[evolution]] line, [[Experience#Slow|1,250,000 experience at level 100]], and a [[base stats|base stat]] total of exactly {{cat|Pokémon with a base stat total of 600|600}}. The term originates from the prefix ''pseudo-'', which means "false". Pseudo-legendary Pokémon are often more powerful than many other non-[[Legendary Pokémon]] due to their high base stats.

Other variations of the definition omit the need to have 1,250,000 experience at level 100."

should become

"'''Pseudo-legendary Pokémon''' (Japanese: '''{{tt|擬似伝説|ぎじでんせつ}}''' ''pseudo-legendary'') is a fan term commonly used to refer to any [[Pokémon (species)|Pokémon]] that is not in the [[Undiscovered (Egg Group)|Undiscovered Egg Group]] and has a [[base stats|base stat]] total of exactly {{cat|Pokémon with a base stat total of 600|600}}. Currently, all pseudo-legendary Pokémon have exactly two [[evolution|pre-evolutions]] which can only evolve by leveling up past a certain [[level]] and [[Experience#Slow|1,250,000 experience at level 100]]. The term originates from the prefix ''pseudo-'', which means "false". Pseudo-legendary Pokémon are often more powerful than many other non-[[Legendary Pokémon]] due to their high base stats."

The BST of 600 matters because anything less would make it less "legendary". Legendary Pokemon are set apart by their lack of evolutionary relatives, inability to breed, and high stats. As long as a Pokemon meets the latter requirement and not the former two, wouldn't it make sense for it to be a pseudo-legendary Pokemon?

[[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 23:18, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
:It's fine as it is.
:No, it's not okay for it to only have "high stats". Psuedo-legendaries were ''originally'' (strong) Pokemon who came between ''legitimate'' Legendary Pokemon in the Pokedex but were not Legendaries themselves. The definition of "psuedo-legendary" is molded to conform to the strong pattern that those Pokemon showed: three stages, BST 600, slow experience.
:If you want a broader definition, you need a ''different'' term. You simply can't just ignore "pseudo-legendary"'s history/baggage and change it completely. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 23:57, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
::So if they introduced a Pokemon that met my definition but not the one on the article, people wouldn't consider it pseudo-legendary, even if it just had a fluctuating growth rate instead of a slow one? [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 02:48, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
:::It's not impossible that some day we could change our minds in some way. For now, there's no apparent reason for us to. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 02:52, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
::::The definition was changed several times (removed the end-of-Pokedex requirement to include Garchomp, removed the dual type requirement to include Goodra), so if a Pokemon like the one I suggested were really introduced, wouldn't it be very likely that the definition will change again? [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 04:34, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
:::::We'll just have to wait and see. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 05:54, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
::::::So does that mean I can't edit the article until such a Pokemon (or several such Pokemon) is introduced? [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 14:12, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
:::::::That would be correct, because the current definition of pseudo-legendary has no reason to change right now. You are trying to change something to match your view, when the majority of the Pokémon fanbase would still be using the current definition. [[User:ChE clarinetist|ChE clarinetist]] ([[User talk:ChE clarinetist|talk]]) 14:22, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

== Manga section ==

A manga section for the pseudo-legendaries is missing. [[User:Pattyman|Patty]][[User talk:Pattyman|Man]] 20:29, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
:On another note, the Dragonite from the Pokémon Origins anime could go here too as a pseudo-legendary has appeared in that medium. [[User:Pattyman|Patty]][[User talk:Pattyman|Man]] 20:33, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

== Individual Characteristics: Others==

I like how it says that Tyranitar and Hydreigon are the only two pseudo legendaries with a unique type combination. Another thing to add to that is that they are both Dark-types.
[[User:Chrisbulb|Christian]] ([[User talk:Chrisbulb|talk]]) 02:12, 28 May 2016 (UTC)

== Trivia fact ==

Here is an interesting fact to add.
'''All of the pseudo-legendary Pokemon appear towards the end of the regional Pokedexs.'''
[[User:Chrisbulb|Christian]] ([[User talk:Chrisbulb|talk]]) 14:49, 28 May 2016 (UTC)
:False. Neither Garchomp nor Goodra do. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 19:52, 28 May 2016 (UTC)

My bad.[[User:Chrisbulb|Christian]] ([[User talk:Chrisbulb|talk]]) 23:28, 28 May 2016 (UTC)

== Please add this useless bit of trivia. ==

* All pseudo-legendary Pokémon introduced in a [[generation]] divisible by three (and only these pseudo-legendary Pokémon) cannot learn {{m|Surf}}.

[[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 20:48, 28 May 2016 (UTC)
:This is way too specific and not notable in the slightest. --[[User:Carmenstar97|Carmen★]] ''[[User talk:Carmenstar97|(Talk |]] [[Special:Contributions/Carmenstar97|contribs)]]'' 20:52, 28 May 2016 (UTC)

Can we add "only pseudo-legend that requires a special condition to evolve", for Goodra?
([[User:Shadoguardian|Shadoguardian]] ([[User talk:Shadoguardian|talk]]) 15:47, 4 June 2016 (UTC))
:I don't think it's very notable. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 16:38, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

::But I thought trivia was supposed to be trivial. [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 17:03, 12 June 2016 (UTC)
:::Trivia is for facts that don't fit easily elsewhere on the page but are important or significant to an understanding of the page's subject. Trivia sections should never have items that you feel are "useless" (as in the title of this section) or whose value amounts to "So what?" [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 17:30, 12 June 2016 (UTC)
::::But most trivia I've seen does amount to "So what?" If you feel that it's wrong, why haven't you deleted them? [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 22:22, 19 June 2016 (UTC)
:::::If you're only doing this to parody most trivia which you already see as useless, please stop. Period.
:::::If you have an issue with trivia in general, bring it up somewhere like the [[Bulbapedia talk:Editor's Hub|Editor's Hub]]. If you have an issue with any specific trivia currently on some page, feel free to discuss those trivia on those pages. But ''do not'' manufacture something you don't really support just to make a "point".
:::::Thank you. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 22:54, 19 June 2016 (UTC)
::::::Sorry for making you think I'm just parodying others' trivia. I'm trying to say that my suggestion isn't any less useful than most of the stuff I've seen. [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 16:41, 20 June 2016 (UTC)
:::::::That doesn't mean you can add something non-notable; it just means some bad trivia points have gotten in without anybody noticing, and they should be removed. See {{wp|Wikipedia:Other stuff exists}}. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 00:59, 21 June 2016 (UTC)
::::::::Can somebody give me an example of trivia that's actually useful? I'm confused here. [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 15:02, 21 June 2016 (UTC)
:::::::::Useful hardly even comes into the picture for what you proposed. Your trivia simply has too many very specific and arbitrary conditions. There's no notable pattern, no meaningful connection in what you've "discovered"; it's just called coincidence, and that's not at all notable. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 15:32, 21 June 2016 (UTC)
::::::::::Okay then, what is notable? I'm still confused. [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 16:29, 21 June 2016 (UTC)
:::::::::::The simplest category of notable trivia is generally "most" or "least" trivia. (Not ''all'' such that may be imagined may be notable.) This is things like ''Generation III is the only generation so far to have introduced more than one pseudo-legendary Pokémon.'' or '' Blissey has the highest base HP of all Pokémon''. Keeping such trivia simple is also heavily preferred; if a condition like "in Generation [X]" or "of these types of Pokemon" is added, it may not be notable (moreso if you try to add multiple conditions). [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 16:35, 21 June 2016 (UTC)
::::::::::::I know that this hasn't been touched upon at all recently, but maybe it could be formatted as "Goodra is the only pseudo-legendary that does not evolve through level-up" or something like that? It's technically the same thing, considering the pseudos that we have, but its not as specific. Just a suggestion. --[[User:Quadrel|Quadrel]] ([[User talk:Quadrel|talk]]) 02:29, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

== Individual Characteristics: Others ==

In "Others," I like how it says that Tyranitar and Hydriegon are the only psuedo-legendaries to have a unique type combination. Can you add to that fact that both Pokemon are also part Dark-type?[[User:Chrisbulb|Christian]] ([[User talk:Chrisbulb|talk]]) 14:52, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

== Fairy Type Weakness ==

I'm bringing this up again. Just because Metagross is not weak to fairy, it is not notable anymore?

It could be worded like 'Metagross is the only Pseudo-Legendary that is not weak to Fairy' or something. [[User:PkmnTrainerV|The legendary PkmnTrainerV is Here!]] ([[User talk:PkmnTrainerV|talk]]) 11:42, 16 September 2016 (UTC)
:No. This is too small of a group to be making exceptions. It's just not notable. --[[User:Carmenstar97|Carmen★]] ''[[User talk:Carmenstar97|(Talk |]] [[Special:Contributions/Carmenstar97|contribs)]]'' 11:52, 16 September 2016 (UTC)
::I rechecked the metagross part of the article, and it is indeed listed. I'm sorry for not reading carefully... [[User:PkmnTrainerV|The legendary PkmnTrainerV is Here!]] ([[User talk:PkmnTrainerV|talk]]) 12:03, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

== Ownership of new pseudos ==

Tyranitar, Metagross, Garchomp & Salamence have appeared under the ownership of Alain, Sycamore and Sawyer respectively in the anime, can somebody add it [[User:Upratik 12|Pratik_12]] '' [[User talk:Upratik 12|Talk]]'' 18:09, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

== Kommo-o ==

I know that at this time there is not sufficient evidence to suggest that Kommo-o will be a Pseudo-Legendary, but will it be added if, when the games are released, it has a stat total of 600? [[User:ZiggyAngelo8|ZiggyAngelo8]] ([[User talk:ZiggyAngelo8|talk]]) 18:31, 31 October 2016 (UTC)
:The staff will assess that when it's released. The rest of us can't speculate what decision the staff will make. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 18:43, 31 October 2016 (UTC)
::If Kommo-o has a BST of 600 and 1,250,000 experience at level 100, it will be considered a pseudo-legendary Pokémon. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 01:31, 1 November 2016 (UTC)
:::It does. Can it please be added now? ^.^ [[User:Nutter Butter|Nutter Butter]] ([[User talk:Nutter Butter|talk]]) 21:17, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
::::Kommo-o is still not shown on the page, the user who asked for it to be added and the request isn't ready yet. We have patience so let's see if an admin replies to my reply.--[[User:Cinday123|Cinday123]] ''([[User talk:Cinday123|Talk]])'' 22:48, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
:::::Kommo-o has a unique type combination Dragon/Fighting, alongside its pre-evolution {{p|Hakamo-o}} but someone forgot to add this piece of info into the other characteristics so this should be added in.--[[User:Cinday123|Cinday123]] ''([[User talk:Cinday123|Talk]])'' 00:24, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

== New Evidence! ==

I play Pokemon Black 2. I noted that whenever I send out a Legendary that lands on the ground (like the 3 musketeers and Zekrom), there is a shimmer effect after they land. This seems to show that this Pokemon is a legendary. However, there are other Pokemon who have this shimmer effect as they land, too.

Examples include Tyranitar, Crustle, Arcanine, Onix, Steelix, Dragonite, Graveler, Golem, Milotic, Emboar, Metagross, Beartic, and Mamoswine.

Could these Pokemon and others in fact have a classification as "Legendary"? Are they just some of the strongest Pokemon, or are they all just heavy? {{unsigned|Reshiespeon}}
:It's a visual indicator that they're heavy. It has nothing to do with Legendary status. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 16:36, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

== "For one reason or another..." ==

In the Trivia section at the bottom of the page, five pokemon commonly mistaken for pseudo-legendaries are listed, followed by the sentence "For one reason or another, these Pokémon do not fit the criteria of those above and so are not pseudo-legendary Pokémon."

While this is correct, it would perhaps be more helpful to mention that it is because none of them have a base stat total of 600. It could also, perhaps, be mentioned that Slaking has a higher base stat total than 600, but the criteria require exactly 600 (and perhaps also mention Truant as rationale for not including Slaking anyway--but that's probably too in-depth for a trivia section).

To clarify, I am suggesting, at least, changing "For one reason or another, these Pokémon do not fit the criteria of those above and so are not pseudo-legendary Pokémon." to "None of these Pokémon have the requisite base stat total of 600 to be considered pseudo-legendary." [[User:Xolroc|Xolroc]] ([[User talk:Xolroc|talk]]) 18:09, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

== Requirements to be a pseudo-legendary ==

I am not sure where, exactly, the definition of pseudo-legendary came from, but it strikes me that two of the three criteria given to class a Pokémon as pseudo-legendary are redundant: the pseudo-legendaries are exactly those Pokémon which are not actually legendary or mega-evolutions and have a base stat total of six hundred. No Pokémon besides the eight listed pseudo-legendaries meets this criterion, and so the requirement of a three-stage evolution line and 1250000 experience at level 100 seem redundant to me. I don't know if these redundant criteria should be removed and simply mentioned as common traits all current ones share, or if there is some good reason to keep them.

Note also that the requirements given already, without specifying that mega evolutions don't count as pseudo-legendaries, would make Mega Alakazam and Mega Gengar be pseudo-legendaries. Alternatively, if mega evolution counts as an evolution stage for the "has a three-stage evolution line" requirement, Mega Scizor and Mega Houndour count as pseudo-legendaries. At the very least, "is not a mega evolution" should be added to the criteria.

[[User:Xolroc|Xolroc]] ([[User talk:Xolroc|talk]]) 18:17, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

==About Salamence and Hydreigon==
Should we list that J has a Salamence, and that Cameron has a Hydreigon? Crum Mum 01:48, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

== ''The term originates from the prefix pseudo-, which means "false".'' ==

Why does the lead of this article go out of its way to explain a common English word? I mean, I know Pokemon is targeted at children, and young children may not be familiar with ''pseudo-'', but isn't its meaning obvious from context anyway?

I think it would be best to just remove this sentence, but if not then it should be combined with the following sentence to read something like

''The term combines the prefix ''pseudo-'', which means "false", with ''[[Legendary Pokémon]]'', due to their being more powerful than most other non-Legendary Pokémon and therefore being considered closer to Legendary Pokémon.''

This would eliminate the inaccurate use of "originate" to give the actual etymology. The term doesn't originate from the prefix ''pseudo-''; it originates as a combination of ''pseudo-'' with ''Legendary Pokémon'', <del>and the use of a Japanese term in the first sentence implies it actually originates as a translation from Japanese</del>. (If anyone wants to know why I'm being so pedantic about the meanings of words, it's because I can't edit the page directly and need to be extremely specific about my thinking so that if someone proxies for me they know exactly what they are doing.)

[[User:Satorukun0530|Satorukun0530]] ([[User talk:Satorukun0530|talk]]) 02:03, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

Correction: The "Japanese name" should also be replaced with "600族 ''600 Club''", since 疑似伝説 is a made up Japanese translation of the English name, at least as far as Japanese Pokemon wiki knows. [[User:Satorukun0530|Satorukun0530]] ([[User talk:Satorukun0530|talk]]) 04:13, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

== Kommo-o : Users ==

For notable Trainers of Kommo-o, can we include Ryuki (from the League Title Defense), as well as noting the existence of Totem Kommo-o in Vast Poni Canyon? [[User:Pucky501|Pucky501]] ([[User talk:Pucky501|talk]]) 18:45, 9 March 2017 (UTC)
:Seconding this question regarding the mention of Totem Kommo-o. --[[User:Bulbafan|Bulbafan]] ([[User talk:Bulbafan|talk]]) 20:36, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

== Another Trivia bit concerning type effectiveness ==

I was thinking that we should add a trivia point about Metagross and Goodra, specifically they're the only two pseudos that don't have a 4x weakness (Dragonite, Salamence and Garchamp have 4x weakness to Ice, Hydreigon and Kommo-o to Fairy, and Tyranitar to Fighting). The point would just say "Metagross and Goodra are the only two pseudo-legendary pokémon that are not 4x weak to a type." Or something like that. Just a thought :/
--[[User:Quadrel|Quadrel]] ([[User talk:Quadrel|talk]]) 02:24, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
:To say "only" "two" is vaguely contradictory. To be more plain: if something isn't unique to a single Pokemon/family, it's usually not regarded as good trivia. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 03:00, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

==Anime section==
I'd like to point out that the anime says "all pseudo-Legendary Pokémon" have appeared in the anime even though {{P|Kommo-o}} has not debut yet; it should say among the lines of "all pseudo-Legendary Pokémon as of [[Generation VI]]" or "all Pseudo-Legendary Pokémon except Kommo-o". I would've fixed this myself, but the page is locked for regular users like myself. [[User:UxieLover1994|UxieLover1994]] ([[User talk:UxieLover1994|talk]]) 07:09, 27 March 2017 (UTC)

== Hydreigon section ==

Will you please replace <code><nowiki>* Only pseudo-legendary Pokémon with multiple elemental immunities (however its immunity to {{t|Ground}} is due to its Ability, {{a|Levitate}}).</nowiki></code> with <code><nowiki>* Only pseudo-legendary Pokémon to have {{t|Dragon}} as its secondary type.</nowiki></code>? [[User:SaturnMario|SaturnMario]], [[User talk:SaturnMario|his talk]] and [[Special:Contributions/SaturnMario|his contributions]] 18:59, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

== Other and type immunity==

Can someone please change <code><nowiki>*Goodra and Kommo-o are the only pseudo-legendary Pokémon that do not always have a type immunity.
.</nowiki></code> to <code><nowiki>* Goodra is the only pseudo-legendary Pokémon that do not always have a type immunity.</nowiki></code> since Kommo-o doesn't have a type immunity under any circumstances while Goodra does but only through it's ability Sap Sipper which it may not always have. [[User:Nikuriku|Nikuriku]] ([[User talk:Nikuriku|talk]]) 09:47, 6 May 2017 (UTC)
:You may or may not have already seen this, but this was already addressed last month at [[User talk:SnorlaxMonster#Pseudo-legendaries]]. He said: ''I don't think that's necessary. The current statement doesn't imply that both Goodra and Kommo-o can have a type immunity under some circumstances, only that at least one of them does.'' Thanks. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 16:11, 6 May 2017 (UTC)
::The statement is wholly true as it stands. Given the claim "[X] always has a type immunity", both Goodra and Kommo-o fail to meet that claim. The answer to "Do they always have a type immunity?" is negative: they ''do not always have a type immunity''. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 16:18, 6 May 2017 (UTC)
:::I know this is old and I have complained a lot, I'd like to say before I explain how I see the scenario I would like to apologise on any potential obnoxious behaviour in the past.
:::Just really want to say on how I interpret the scenario to explain why I requested a change:
::: I personally saw that the claim ''Goodra and Kommo-o are the only pseudo-legendary Pokémon that do not always have a type immunity'' was implying that they did not '''always''' have a type immunity which I interpreted as Kommo-o not 'always' having a type immunity meant that in some scenarios it has the potential to '''have''' a type immunity but only in certain scenarios.
:::I would like to say that my understanding of a type-immunity meant an immunity to the elemental typing of attacks(e.g. fire, water) rather than immunity to certain FORM of attacks (e.g. soundbased, ball/bomb based) which Kommo-o CAN have via Bulletproof/Soundproof.
:::I know Goodra doesn't always have one due to being entirely dependant on the ability Sap Sipper which it doesn't always have but I saw it as with the case of Kommo-o, its Dragon/Fighting typing doesn't grant it any immunities under any circumstances which I thought that the sentence was telling me.
::: So basically I was confused as I believed that the sentence meant that Kommo-o not always having a type immunity meaning that only in some situations does a Kommo-o have the potential to have a type immunity.
:::Sorry if this sounds obnoxious but I just really wanted to say how I viewed the sentence to clear a few things up based on Kommo-o not always having a type immunity.
[[User:Nikuriku|Nikuriku]] ([[User talk:Nikuriku|talk]]) 12:13, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

== Notable? ==

If this is a fan term, is it notable? [[User:RubyLeafGreenCrystal|RubyLeafGreenCrystal]] ([[User talk:RubyLeafGreenCrystal|talk]]) 17:37, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

== Trivia idea that will probably be rejected ==

Can someone add this to the trivia?
* No two pseudo-legendary Pokémon share an [[ability]].
[[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 16:29, 23 February 2018 (UTC)
:There's no reason to expect they should. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 19:04, 23 February 2018 (UTC)

== SM051 ==

The dub title for SM051 needs to be added. [[User:Playerking95|Playerking95]] ([[User talk:Playerking95|talk]]) 14:00, 25 February 2018 (UTC)

== Pre-evolutions' BST ==

The article should probably mention somewhere that all pseudo-legendary Pokemon evolve from a Pokemon whose base stat total is exactly 300. [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 17:51, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

== Why is this page FULLY protected? ==

I don't get sense why this page is fully protected. Even registered users can't edit it and it isn't a Bulbapedia:something page... WHY??? {{unsigned|LugiaLunala}}
:It's because, in the past, users would keep changing the definition of a pseudo legendary, which would then lead to edit wars. So it was decided that the page would be fully protected.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 11:59, 16 February 2019 (UTC)

== Semi-Pseudo Legendaries ==

Those Pokemon listed and the bottom that don't qualify as PL's but aren't, I beleive they're called Semi-Pseudo Legendaries. Since I can't edit the page, I decided to put this here so people that can still edit this page could maybe add that in? [[User:Bravebravesirbrian|Bravebravesirbrian]] ([[User talk:Bravebravesirbrian|talk]]) 18:04, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
:Why do we need to give that group a name? I think we already have too many unofficial names for unofficial groups of Pokemon. [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 18:29, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
::I was merely making a suggestion [[User:Bravebravesirbrian|Bravebravesirbrian]] ([[User talk:Bravebravesirbrian|talk]]) 18:32, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

== Sandstorm links to wrong place in the Tyranitar section ==

I quote

<nowiki>====Tyranitar====</nowiki>

With a focus on power and durability, <nowiki>{{p|Tyranitar}} sacrifices Speed to have tremendous bulk and skill. It has the {{a|Sand Stream}} Ability to always conjure up a {{m|Sandstorm}}</nowiki>, which takes advantage of its Rock typing to further increase its high Special Defense.

<nowiki>Change {{m|Sandstorm}} to {{weather|Sandstorm}}
</nowiki>

That way it links to the weather effect, and not the move. Linking to the move doesn't really make sense.

-[[User:Loopsi|Loopsi]] ([[User talk:Loopsi|talk]]) 22:01, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

== Mega Tyranitar and Mega Metagross ==
In the Tyranitar section, remove the part where it says “ Mega Tyranitar has the highest base Defense, with 150.” and change it with “ Mega Tyranitar and Mega Metagross has the highest base Defense, with 150.” in the other section. [[User:MindOfSableye|MindOfSableye]] ([[User talk:MindOfSableye|talk]]) 16:36, 5 October 2019 (UTC)

== Official Japanese Name? ==

Pokémon have recently released plushies for this grouping. https://www.pokemon.co.jp/info/2019/10/191011_p02.html I don't speak japanese, but it seems to use the phrase "大器晩成" (which I think is the equivalent "late bloomer") to describe them. Is this notable? [[User:Jmvb|JMVB - very sporadic editor since 2008]] ([[User talk:Jmvb|talk]]) 07:30, 11 October 2019 (UTC)
:The term appears to be related to the line of merchandise being about the weak base form evolving into the strong fully evolved form, still the official acknowledgement of this group is relevant and I wonder if [[:File:Gen VII Pseudo Legendary Artwork.jpeg|the related artwork]] could be of use for this page.—[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 18:45, 13 October 2019 (UTC)
::I wouldn't mind the image, but the image should be .png format.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 05:21, 14 October 2019 (UTC)
:::Unfortunately, the image has only been released in JPEG format, if you have suggestions on how to proceed, I’ll gladly help.—[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 10:53, 14 October 2019 (UTC)
::::I've re-uploaded a png version. You can save a jpeg image as a png image by opening it in a photo editing program and saving it as a png file.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 11:57, 14 October 2019 (UTC)
:::::Thanks!—[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 13:49, 14 October 2019 (UTC)

== BST of pre-evolutions ==

The article should say that every pseudo-legendary evolves from something whose BST is 300. I know I already posted this before, but it's been much longer than 6 months, and I still care about this edit. [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]], [[Special:Contributions/Sumwun|contribs]]) 15:41, 19 October 2019 (UTC)
:Sword and Shield are not out yet, but I would like to point out that in the wake of recent data dumps surrounding new Pokemon, this statement no longer holds true as Generation VIII's pseudo-legendary's base form has a BST of 270. I will not disclose its name, but the new pseudo-legendary line of Sword and Shield has broken this trend. --[[User:ScraftyIsTheBest|ScraftyIsTheBest]] ([[User talk:ScraftyIsTheBest|talk]]) 03:08, 12 November 2019 (UTC)
::Okay thanks. [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]], [[Special:Contributions/Sumwun|contribs]]) 16:05, 7 December 2019 (UTC)

== Dragapult ==

I know the staff are likely incredibly busy and this isn't top priority at the moment, however, with all the Pokemon's stats and data out, I believe it is well established by now that Dragapult is the Generation VIII pseudo-legendary. Based on all the data surrounding it, everything lines up:

- Dragapult's BST is 600

- It is part of a three-stage evolutionary line

- The entire line has a catch rate of 45 (Dreepy, Drakloak, and Dragapult all have a catch rate of 45)

- It is in the Slow EXP group

- It requires 40 egg cycles to hatch a Dreepy

Just bringing this up for staff to assess. I won't push anyone to get this updated immediately, but bringing this up and if anyone in the staff has objections based on assessment, feel free to discuss them. But just bringing Dragapult up because I believe it is very much the pseudo-legendary of the new generation based on thorough assessment of it. -[[User:ScraftyIsTheBest|ScraftyIsTheBest]] ([[User talk:ScraftyIsTheBest|talk]]) 23:43, 6 December 2019 (UTC)
:Would like to potentially provide templates and whatnot for the page if/when Dragapult gets added to the page, just for ease:

{| class="roundy" style="margin:auto; text-align:center; background: #{{galar color dark}}; font-size:85%; border: 5px solid #{{galar color}}"
|-
! style="width:80px; background:#{{galar color light}}; {{roundytop|5px}}" colspan="2" | [[File:887Dragapult.png|96px]] '''{{pcolor|Dragapult|{{galar color dark}}}}''' 
|-
| style="background:#{{dragon color}}" | {{color2|FFF|Dragon (type)|Dragon}}
| style="background:#{{ghost color}}" | {{color2|FFF|Ghost (type)|Ghost}}
|- style="background: #{{galar color light}}"
| {{MSP|886|Drakloak}}
| {{pcolor|Drakloak|{{galar color dark}}}}
|- style="background: #{{galar color light}}"
| style="background:#{{dragon color}}" | {{color2|FFF|Dragon (type)|Dragon}}
| style="background:#{{ghost color}}" | {{color2|FFF|Ghost (type)|Ghost}}
|- style="background: #{{galar color light}}"
| {{MSP|885|Dreepy}}
| {{pcolor|Dreepy|{{galar color dark}}}}
|-
| style="background:#{{dragon color}}; {{roundybl|5px}}" | {{color2|FFF|Dragon (type)|Dragon}}
| style="background:#{{ghost color}}; {{roundybr|5px}}" | {{color2|FFF|Ghost (type)|Ghost}}
|}

Also BST:

{{groupstats/9|normal|149|Dragonite|dragon|91|134|95|100|100|80|248|Tyranitar|rock|100|134|110|95|100|61|373|Salamence|dragon|95|135|80|110|80|100|376|Metagross|steel|80|135|130|95|90|70|445|Garchomp|dragon|108|130|95|80|85|102|635|Hydreigon|dark|92|105|90|125|90|98|706|Goodra|dragon|90|100|70|110|150|80|784|Kommo-o|dragon|75|110|125|100|105|85|887|Dragapult|dragon|88|120|75|100|75|142}}

And new calculated BST averages with Dragapult in mind:

HP: 91, Attack: 122.56, Defense: 96.67, SpAtk: 101.67, SpDef: 97.22, Speed: 90.89

As for users, Dragapult is used by Leon, who is the Champion in Sword and Shield.

Side note: probably worth noting that Goodra is also used by Raihan in his Champion Cup matches.

[[User:ScraftyIsTheBest|ScraftyIsTheBest]] ([[User talk:ScraftyIsTheBest|talk]]) 18:01, 26 December 2019 (UTC)

|}

Because of Gen VIII introducing the next pseudo-legendary Pokémon, some of the facts need to be updated.
*First, Dragapult is now the tallest pseudo-legendary Pokémon with a height of 9'10", not Dragonite or Tyranitar.
*Second, Dragapult now has the lowest base Special Defense with 75, not Salamence with 80.
*Third, Dragapult is now the pseudo-legendary Pokémon with the highest base Speed stat, not Garchomp with 102.
*Fourth, Dragapult is now the lightest pseudo-legendary Pokémon with 110.2 lbs., not Kommo-o with 172.4 lbs.
So it would be great if someone could update them. --[[User:TotallyTob|'''T'''otally'''T'''ob]] 03:17, 21 January 2020 (UTC)
:I've updated the trivia accordingly. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 11:17, 21 January 2020 (UTC)

== Outdated information ==

In the lede, the article states that "Some fans omit the need to have 1,250,000 experience at level 100 from their definition, although this has no effect on the Pokémon that are in the group."

It's no longer true that this doesn't affect group membership, since [[Alakazam (Pokémon)#Generation_VII|Alakazam]] has a three-stage evolutionary line and as of gen VII has a base stat total of 600; the only thing keeping it out of the pseudolegendaries by the definition this article presents is that it's in the medium-slow experience group instead of the slow one.

--[[User:Felthry|Felthry]] ([[User talk:Felthry|talk]]) 17:15, 7 February 2020 (UTC)
:Effectively, the fact that the first official acknowledgement of this group we know about was in a line of merchandise named ''Late Bloomers'' suggests that the main traits of this group, beside the high power due to the 600 base stats total, are the slow leveling up and late evolution.—[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 18:20, 7 February 2020 (UTC)
::I'm not making any argument for what the definition should be or should not be. I'm just saying that that one single sentence is no longer true. --[[User:Felthry|Felthry]] ([[User talk:Felthry|talk]]) 16:56, 8 February 2020 (UTC)

Talk:Pseudo-legendary Pokémon/Archive 1

2020-02-07T17:15:47Z

Felthry: /* Outdated information */ new section

Type

2018-11-27T22:33:12Z

Felthry: Undo revision 2887877 by Superdragonite29 (talk) The pixie plate boosts fairy types.

{{samename|property of a Pokémon called type in [[The Official Pokémon Handbook]]|Pokémon category}}
{{Types|diamond|* 1}}
'''Types''' (Japanese: '''タイプ''' ''Type'') are properties for {{OBP|Pokémon|species}} and their [[move]]s. As of [[Generation VI]], there are 18 types, as listed to the right. Most of these were introduced during [[Generation I]], but the {{t|Dark}} and {{t|Steel}} types were introduced in [[Generation II]] and the {{t|Fairy}} type was introduced in [[Generation VI]]. A unique {{t|???}} type also existed from Generations II through {{gen|IV}}. During [[Generation I]], types were occasionally referred to as '''elements'''.

A Pokémon may have either one or two types: For instance, {{p|Charmander}} is a {{t|Fire}} type, while {{p|Bulbasaur}} is both a {{t|Grass}} type and a {{t|Poison}} type. With the current 18-type system, there are 324 possible ways to assign types to Pokémon, with 171 unique combinations. As of [[Generation VII]], 146 different type combinations have been used. Similar to Pokémon, [[Pokéstar Studios opponents]] also have types.

A move has exactly one type. The type of a damaging move typically defines which types of Pokémon it is super effective against, which types of Pokémon it is not very effective against, and which types of Pokémon it is completely ineffective against.

Most [[Gym Leader]]s and members of the [[Elite Four]] are designed to have a [[Type expert|type-specific theme]].

==Type effectiveness==
:''"Super effective" redirects here. For the webcomic, see [[Super Effective (webcomic)]].''
:''"It's super effective" redirects here. For the podcast, see [[It's Super Effective (podcast)]].''
:''"Weakness" and "Resistance" redirect here. For the TCG mechanics, see [[Appendix:Glossary (TCG)#Weakness|Appendix:Glossary (TCG) → Weakness]]'' and ''[[Appendix:Glossary (TCG)#Resistance|Appendix:Glossary (TCG) → Resistance]].''

Damaging moves typically vary in '''effectiveness''' (Japanese: '''{{tt|効果|こうか}}''' ''effectiveness'') depending on the move's type and the type(s) of its target.

Type effectiveness greatly influences how much [[damage]] moves deal:
* If the type of a move is '''super effective''' (Japanese: '''{{tt|効果はバツグン|こうかはばつぐん}}''' ''super effective'') against a type of its target, the damage done is double the normal amount;
* If the type of a move is '''not very effective''' (Japanese: '''{{tt|効果は今一つ|こうかはいまひとつ}}''' ''not very effective'') against a type of its target, the damage done is half the normal amount;
* If the type of a move is '''not effective''' (Japanese: '''{{tt|効果がない|こうかがない}}''' ''not effective'') against a type of its target, the target is completely immune to it, and the move will deal no damage.

For targets that have two types, overall type effectiveness is the combined effectiveness against each of its types:
* If the type of a move is super effective against both of the opponent's types (such as {{m|Dig}}, a {{type|Ground}} move, used against an {{p|Aggron}}, a {{2t|Steel|Rock}} Pokémon), then the move does 4 times the damage;
* If the type of a move is not very effective against both of the opponent's types (such as {{m|Wake-Up Slap}}, a {{type|Fighting}} move, used against a {{p|Sigilyph}}, a {{2t|Psychic|Flying}} Pokémon), then the move only does ¼ of the damage;
* If the type of a move is super effective against one of the opponent's types but not very effective against the other (such as {{m|Razor Leaf}}, a {{type|Grass}} move, used against a {{p|Gyarados}}, a {{2t|Water|Flying}} Pokémon), then the move deals normal damage;
* If the type of move is completely ineffective against one of the opponent's types, then the move does no damage, even if the opponent has a second type that would be vulnerable to it (as in {{m|Thunderbolt}}, an {{type|Electric}} move, used against a {{p|Quagsire}}, a {{2t|Water|Ground}} Pokémon).

The moves {{m|Flying Press}}, {{m|Freeze-Dry}}, and {{m|Thousand Arrows}} have custom interactions with defending types that do not strictly match their assigned types. {{cat|Moves that deal direct damage}} (including [[one-hit knockout move]]s) do not employ effectiveness, although Pokémon may still be immune to them based on type interactions. Certain {{Abilities}}, [[held item]]s, or types of [[weather]] (such as {{a|Levitate}}, the [[Ring Target]], or a {{weather|mysterious air current}}, respectively) may modify the effectiveness of specific moves against types.

[[Status move]]s typically do not employ type effectiveness; however, {{type|Ground}} Pokémon are immune to {{m|Thunder Wave}} based on type interactions, and {{type|Ghost}} Pokémon are immune to {{m|Glare}} based on type interactions in Generation II and III only. Furthermore, status moves may be unable to affect Pokémon based on type-related interactions other than effectiveness; for example, {{type|Poison}} Pokémon cannot be afflicted with {{status|poison}} and are thus unaffected by {{m|Poison Gas}}.

===Type chart===
:''For type charts from previous generations, see [[Type/Type chart]]''

A '''type chart''', also known as '''type matchup chart''', shows which modifiers are applied to [[move]] types when attacking {{OBP|Pokémon|species}} of each type. If the defending Pokémon is dual-typed, the modifier is calculated as the product of the modifiers for both of its types: a {{type|Flying}} move would hit for 4× damage on a {{2t|Bug|Grass}} Pokémon, while a {{type|Ground}} move used against the same would do only a quarter of the normal damage. (A complete ineffectiveness against either type will make the move deal no damage, since 0 multiplied by any number is 0.)

The type chart differs depending on the [[generation]] of {{pkmn|games}} it is from. The type chart for Generations VI and VII (the current generation) is shown below.

{| class="roundy" style="border: 2px solid #111; background:#555; margin-right: 5px; margin-bottom: 5px"
|-
! colspan="2" rowspan="2" | ×
! colspan="18" style="{{roundytr|5px}} background:#4C4BA4" | Defending type
|-
! style="background:#{{normal color}}" | {{ic|Normal}}
! style="background:#{{fighting color}}" | {{ic|Fighting}}
! style="background:#{{flying color}}" | {{ic|Flying}}
! style="background:#{{poison color}}" | {{ic|Poison}}
! style="background:#{{ground color}}" | {{ic|Ground}}
! style="background:#{{rock color}}" | {{ic|Rock}}
! style="background:#{{bug color}}" | {{ic|Bug}}
! style="background:#{{ghost color}}" | {{ic|Ghost}}
! style="background:#{{steel color}}" | {{ic|Steel}}
! style="background:#{{fire color}}" | {{ic|Fire}}
! style="background:#{{water color}}" | {{ic|Water}}
! style="background:#{{grass color}}" | {{ic|Grass}}
! style="background:#{{electric color}}" | {{ic|Electric}}
! style="background:#{{psychic color}}" | {{ic|Psychic}}
! style="background:#{{ice color}}" | {{ic|Ice}}
! style="background:#{{dragon color}}" | {{ic|Dragon}}
! style="background:#{{dark color}}" | {{ic|Dark}}
! style="background:#{{fairy color}}" | {{ic|Fairy}}
|- style="text-align:center; background:#FFF; font-size:90%"
! rowspan="18" style="background:#A44C4B" | A t t a c k i n g t y p e
! style="background:#{{normal color}}" | {{ic|Normal}}
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
| style="background:#F00; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | ½×
| 1×
| style="background:#000; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | 0×
| style="background:#F00; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | ½×
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
|- style="text-align:center; background:#FFF; font-size:90%"
! style="background:#{{fighting color}}" | {{ic|Fighting}}
| style="background:#090; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | 2×
| 1×
| style="background:#F00; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | ½×
| style="background:#F00; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | ½×
| 1×
| style="background:#090; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | 2×
| style="background:#F00; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | ½×
| style="background:#000; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | 0×
| style="background:#090; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | 2×
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
| style="background:#F00; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | ½×
| style="background:#090; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | 2×
| 1×
| style="background:#090; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | 2×
| style="background:#F00; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | ½×
|- style="text-align:center; background:#FFF; font-size:90%"
! style="background:#{{flying color}}" | {{ic|Flying}}
| 1×
| style="background:#090; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | 2×
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
| style="background:#F00; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | ½×
| style="background:#090; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | 2×
| 1×
| style="background:#F00; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | ½×
| 1×
| 1×
| style="background:#090; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | 2×
| style="background:#F00; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | ½×
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
|- style="text-align:center; background:#FFF; font-size:90%"
! style="background:#{{poison color}}" | {{ic|Poison}}
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
| style="background:#F00; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | ½×
| style="background:#F00; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | ½×
| style="background:#F00; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | ½×
| 1×
| style="background:#F00; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | ½×
| style="background:#000; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | 0×
| 1×
| 1×
| style="background:#090; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | 2×
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
| style="background:#090; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | 2×
|- style="text-align:center; background:#FFF; font-size:90%"
! style="background:#{{ground color}}" | {{ic|Ground}}
| 1×
| 1×
| style="background:#000; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | 0×
| style="background:#090; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | 2×
| 1×
| style="background:#090; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | 2×
| style="background:#F00; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | ½×
| 1×
| style="background:#090; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | 2×
| style="background:#090; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | 2×
| 1×
| style="background:#F00; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | ½×
| style="background:#090; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | 2×
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
|- style="text-align:center; background:#FFF; font-size:90%"
! style="background:#{{rock color}}" | {{ic|Rock}}
| 1×
| style="background:#F00; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | ½×
| style="background:#090; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | 2×
| 1×
| style="background:#F00; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | ½×
| 1×
| style="background:#090; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | 2×
| 1×
| style="background:#F00; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | ½×
| style="background:#090; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | 2×
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
| style="background:#090; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | 2×
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
|- style="text-align:center; background:#FFF; font-size:90%"
! style="background:#{{bug color}}" | {{ic|Bug}}
| 1×
| style="background:#F00; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | ½×
| style="background:#F00; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | ½×
| style="background:#F00; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | ½×
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
| style="background:#F00; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | ½×
| style="background:#F00; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | ½×
| style="background:#F00; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | ½×
| 1×
| style="background:#090; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | 2×
| 1×
| style="background:#090; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | 2×
| 1×
| 1×
| style="background:#090; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | 2×
| style="background:#F00; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | ½×
|- style="text-align:center; background:#FFF; font-size:90%"
! style="background:#{{ghost color}}" | {{ic|Ghost}}
| style="background:#000; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | 0×
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
| style="background:#090; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | 2×
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
| style="background:#090; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | 2×
| 1×
| 1×
| style="background:#F00; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | ½×
| 1×
|- style="text-align:center; background:#FFF; font-size:90%"
! style="background:#{{steel color}}" | {{ic|Steel}}
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
| style="background:#090; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | 2×
| 1×
| 1×
| style="background:#F00; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | ½×
| style="background:#F00; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | ½×
| style="background:#F00; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | ½×
| 1×
| style="background:#F00; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | ½×
| 1×
| style="background:#090; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | 2×
| 1×
| 1×
| style="background:#090; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | 2×
|- style="text-align:center; background:#FFF; font-size:90%"
! style="background:#{{fire color}}" | {{ic|Fire}}
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
| style="background:#F00; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | ½×
| style="background:#090; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | 2×
| 1×
| style="background:#090; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | 2×
| style="background:#F00; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | ½×
| style="background:#F00; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | ½×
| style="background:#090; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | 2×
| 1×
| 1×
| style="background:#090; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | 2×
| style="background:#F00; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | ½×
| 1×
| 1×
|- style="text-align:center; background:#FFF; font-size:90%"
! style="background:#{{water color}}" | {{ic|Water}}
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
| style="background:#090; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | 2×
| style="background:#090; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | 2×
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
| style="background:#090; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | 2×
| style="background:#F00; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | ½×
| style="background:#F00; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | ½×
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
| style="background:#F00; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | ½×
| 1×
| 1×
|- style="text-align:center; background:#FFF; font-size:90%"
! style="background:#{{grass color}}" | {{ic|Grass}}
| 1×
| 1×
| style="background:#F00; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | ½×
| style="background:#F00; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | ½×
| style="background:#090; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | 2×
| style="background:#090; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | 2×
| style="background:#F00; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | ½×
| 1×
| style="background:#F00; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | ½×
| style="background:#F00; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | ½×
| style="background:#090; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | 2×
| style="background:#F00; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | ½×
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
| style="background:#F00; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | ½×
| 1×
| 1×
|- style="text-align:center; background:#FFF; font-size:90%"
! style="background:#{{electric color}}" | {{ic|Electric}}
| 1×
| 1×
| style="background:#090; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | 2×
| 1×
| style="background:#000; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | 0×
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
| style="background:#090; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | 2×
| style="background:#F00; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | ½×
| style="background:#F00; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | ½×
| 1×
| 1×
| style="background:#F00; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | ½×
| 1×
| 1×
|- style="text-align:center; background:#FFF; font-size:90%"
! style="background:#{{psychic color}}" | {{ic|Psychic}}
| 1×
| style="background:#090; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | 2×
| 1×
| style="background:#090; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | 2×
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
| style="background:#F00; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | ½×
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
| style="background:#F00; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | ½×
| 1×
| 1×
| style="background:#000; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | 0×
| 1×
|- style="text-align:center; background:#FFF; font-size:90%"
! style="background:#{{ice color}}" | {{ic|Ice}}
| 1×
| 1×
| style="background:#090; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | 2×
| 1×
| style="background:#090; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | 2×
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
| style="background:#F00; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | ½×
| style="background:#F00; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | ½×
| style="background:#F00; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | ½×
| style="background:#090; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | 2×
| 1×
| 1×
| style="background:#F00; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | ½×
| style="background:#090; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | 2×
| 1×
| 1×
|- style="text-align:center; background:#FFF; font-size:90%"
! style="background:#{{dragon color}}" | {{ic|Dragon}}
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
| style="background:#F00; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | ½×
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
| style="background:#090; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | 2×
| 1×
| style="background:#000; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | 0×
|- style="text-align:center; background:#FFF; font-size:90%"
! style="background:#{{dark color}}" | {{ic|Dark}}
| 1×
| style="background:#F00; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | ½×
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
| style="background:#090; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | 2×
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
| style="background:#090; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | 2×
| 1×
| 1×
| style="background:#F00; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | ½×
| style="background:#F00; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | ½×
|- style="text-align:center; background:#FFF; font-size:90%"
! style="background:#{{fairy color}}" | {{ic|Fairy}}
| 1×
| style="background:#090; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | 2×
| 1×
| style="background:#F00; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | ½×
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
| style="background:#F00; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | ½×
| style="background:#F00; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | ½×
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
| 1×
| style="background:#090; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | 2×
| style="background:#090; color:#FFF; font-size:90%" | 2×
| 1×
|-
| colspan="20" style="{{roundybottom|5px}}; background:#999" | These matchups are suitable for {{color2|000|Generation VI}} onward.
|}

In [[Inverse Battle]]s, a different type chart is used that essentially inverts the normal type chart, turning immunities and resistances into weaknesses, and weaknesses into resistances.

===Dual-type damage misinformation glitch===
{{main|List of glitches in Generation I#Dual-type damage misinformation|List of glitches in Generation I → Dual-type damage misinformation}}
In [[Generation I]] only, if a damaging move is used on a Pokémon with two types such that one of its types is weak to the move and the other type resists the move, it will correctly receive neutral damage, but the incorrect message will be displayed on-screen(for example:If [[Vine Whip (move)|Vine Whip]] was used on a [[Tentacool]],it would deal neutral damage,but the "It's not very effective"message would still appear). This does not occur in {{eng|Pokémon Stadium}}.

==Type-affected game mechanics==
Prior to [[Generation IV]], the [[damage category|category]] of damaging moves only depends on the move's type (except for [[Shadow moves]]); for example, all {{type|Normal}} damaging moves are [[physical move]]s and all {{type|Water}} damaging moves are [[special move]]s. From [[Generation IV]] onward, each individual move has a [[damage category]] that is independent of its type.

When the type of a move matches one of the types of the Pokémon using it, the attack power will be increased by 50%. This is referred to as [[same-type attack bonus]], or STAB for short. As an example, an {{p|Aron}} that knows the {{type|Steel}} move {{m|Metal Claw}} will have the move's power increased by 50% because one of Aron's types is Steel; the power of {{m|Cut}} would not be increased (because none of Aron's types is Normal).

Some types of field effects, {{Abilities}}, and [[held item]]s affect moves of a certain type. {{m|Sunny Day}}, for example, causes {{type|Fire}} moves to increase in power, while {{a|Levitate}} causes {{type|Ground}} moves to not work on the Pokémon with this Ability. Likewise, each type has a [[Type-enhancing item|specific held item]] that can be given to a Pokémon that will power up one of the specific types by 20% (10% prior to Generation IV), such as the [[Metal Coat]], which powers up {{type|Steel}} moves.

{{cat|moves that change a Pokémon's type|Some moves}} can change the type of a Pokémon. For example, {{m|Camouflage}} changes the user's type to a type corresponding to the battlefield terrain. Abilities can also change the type of a Pokémon. So far, the only such Abilities are {{a|Color Change}}, {{a|Multitype}}, {{a|Protean}}, and {{a|RKS System}}.

Additionally, the type of {{cat|moves that change type|some moves}} may depend on the circumstances they are used in; for example, {{m|Weather Ball}} may be Fire-, Water-, Ice-, Rock-, or Normal-type depending on the [[weather]] it is used in. Additionally, there are {{cat|Abilities that can modify move types}}, as well as three moves ({{m|Electrify}}, {{m|Ion Deluge}}, and {{m|Plasma Fists}}).

==??? type==
{{main|??? (type)}}
The ??? type is the only type to have been removed from the [[core series]] games. The ??? type only existed from [[Generation II]] to [[Generation IV]] and was primarily used in the core series as the type of the move {{m|Curse}}. It was removed in [[Generation V]], and Curse became a {{type|Ghost}} move. Any damaging moves given the ??? type deal regular damage against all types, and any Pokémon given the ??? type takes regular damage from all moves.

==Shadow==
While not generally regarded as an actual type, in {{Pokémon XD}}, [[Shadow move]]s have their type listed as "------". [[Shadow Pokémon]] can be considered to be of this type, but they still retain their regular typing as well. In {{Pokémon XD}}, all Shadow moves are not very effective against Shadow Pokémon and super effective against non-Shadow Pokémon.

==Typeless==
There are situations where Pokémon or moves behave as if they were typeless, unable to receive {{STAB}} and boosts from [[type-enhancing item]]s or {{cat|type-enhancing Abilities|Abilities}}. Typeless Pokémon take regular damage from all moves, and typeless moves deal regular damage against all Pokémon.

{{m|Struggle}} acts typelessly from [[Generation II]] onward. A pure {{type|Fire}} Pokémon that uses {{m|Burn Up}} becomes typeless. The move {{m|Revelation Dance}} acts typelessly if used by a typeless user (in which case it does not receive {{STAB}}).

A typeless Pokémon has no types displayed on its battle summary.

==Glitch types==
{{main|List of glitch types}}
There are several types which only appear through the use of glitches, such as on the types of [[glitch Pokémon]]. Most famously this includes the {{t|Bird}} type, which was intentionally programmed into the code of the Generation I and II games but was not given to any real Pokémon. Other glitch types are the result of the game reading other data as if it were types. Like the ??? type, all glitch types have no special effectiveness (they both inflict normal damage against all types and take normal damage from all types).

==In other games==
===In the Pokémon Mystery Dungeon series===
{{main|Damage modification (Mystery Dungeon)}}
In the [[Pokémon Mystery Dungeon series]], the type effectiveness chart differs from contemporaneous core series games. Type effectiveness also differs among the series, as does whether effectiveness multipliers stack against dual-typed Pokémon. For example, in [[Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Red Rescue Team and Blue Rescue Team]], moves that are ineffective in the core series deal ½× damage instead, not very effective moves deal 0.7× damage instead, and multipliers stack against dual-typed Pokémon. In [[Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Time and Explorers of Darkness|Explorers of Time and Explorers of Darkness]], moves that are ineffective in the core series deal ¼× damage, and multipliers typically do not stack. In [[Pokémon Super Mystery Dungeon]], moves that are ineffective in the core series are ineffective as well (0× damage).

===In the Pokémon Ranger series===
In the Pokémon Ranger series, each Pokémon has a group, equivalent to a type in the core series. The effectiveness of [[Poké Assist]]s on [[wild Pokémon]] is dependent on the Pokémon's group.

===In the Pokémon Rumble series===
In the [[Pokémon Rumble series]], the type effectiveness chart differs from the equivalent type chart in contemporaneous core series games. Moves that are ineffective in the core series deal 0.6× damage instead, moves that would be not very effective against one or both of the target's types deal ~0.8× or ~0.7× damage, respectively, and moves that would be super effective against one or both of the target's types deal ~1.2× and ~1.4× damage, respectively. 

===In Pokémon Battrio===
{{main|Type (Battrio)}}
Pokémon in [[Pokémon Battrio]] all have one type in line with one of their types in the core games. Battrio also includes two unique types exclusively for {{p|Arceus}}, the Full Plate and Eleven-Plate types.

Pokémon Battrio's type effectiveness chart is also unique, with different possible strengths for weaknesses or resistances. For example, while Grass-type Pokémon are weak to both Ice- and Fire-type moves, they are weaker to Fire-type moves than to Ice-type moves.

Players with a [[Pokémon Battrio#Memory Keys|Memory Key]] can also gain experience towards different types that will level up their {{DL|Type (Battrio)|Type Levels}}, granting Pokémon of that type a bonus in Attack or HP.

===In Pokémon Shuffle===
{{main|Pokémon Shuffle#Type|Pokémon Shuffle → Type}}
Pokémon in [[Pokémon Shuffle]] each only have one type. Pokémon Shuffle's type effectiveness chart is also slightly different than the contemporaneous Generation VI chart, with 0× effectivenesses turned into ½× effectiveness.

===In Pokémon GO===
In the [[Pokémon GO]], the type effectiveness chart differs from the equivalent type chart in contemporaneous core series games. Moves that are ineffective in the core series deal 0.51× damage instead (0.8× prior to June 21, 2017), not very effective moves deal 0.714× damage (0.8× prior to June 21, 2017), and super effective moves deal 1.4× damage (1.25× prior to June 21, 2017). If the defending Pokémon is dual-typed, the modifier is calculated as the product of the modifiers for both of its types.

==In the TCG==
{{main|Type (TCG)}}
In the [[Pokémon Trading Card Game]], there were initially only seven types, although it has since been extended to eleven types. Because of this reduction, there are many Pokémon that share a type with one another, despite not normally sharing one in the core video game. Furthermore, in the TCG it's the Pokémon's type itself, not the type of energy used to power its attack, that determines whether more or less damage is done due to Type; generally speaking weakness to a Pokémon's type doubles damage, while resistance reduces damage by 20 points. So while type mechanics are generally different than in the core games, they do try to preserve a similar spirit.

For example, [[Machamp]], [[Gigalith]], and [[Hippowdon]] are all {{TCG|Fighting}} type Pokémon in the TCG, despite being {{t|Fighting}}-, {{t|Rock}}- and {{type|Ground}} Pokémon, respectively, in the video game. However, Machamp cards may be weak to {{TCG|Psychic}} type Pokémon, while Gigalith may be weak to {{TCG|Water}} type Pokémon, and Hippowdon would be weak to {{TCG|Grass}} type Pokémon, just as those Pokémon would be in the core games. Likewise, when these Pokémon attack, they may be able to do extra damage to a {{TCG|Lightning}} type Pokémon in the TCG, despite {{type|Electric}} Pokémon in the video game not being normally weak to {{t|Fighting}}- and {{type|Rock}} Pokémon.

==In other languages==
{{langtable|color=ddf|bordercolor=ccf
|zh_yue=屬性 ''{{tt|Suhksing|Type}}
|zh_cmn=屬性 / 属性 ''{{tt|Shǔxìng|Type}}
|cs=Typ
|fi=Tyyppi
|fr=Type
|de=Typ
|hu=Típus
|id=Tipe
|it=Tipo
|ko=타입 ''Type''
|ms=Type Jenis
|pl=Typ
|pt_br=Tipo Elemento{{tt|*|The Official Pokémon Handbook, Pokémon Club}}
|pt_eu=Tipo
|ru=Тип ''Tip''
|es=Tipo
|sv=Typ Sort{{tt|*|DP002}} Elementklass{{tt|*|The Official Pokémon Handbook}}
|th=ประเภท ''Praphet''
|vi=Hệ
|tr=Tip
}}

==See also==
* [[Same-type attack bonus]]
* [[Type expert]]
* [[List of Pokémon with unique type combinations]]
* [[List of type combinations by abundance]]
* [[:Category:Moves that change a Pokémon's type]]
{{-}}
{{Project Games notice|game mechanic}}

[[Category:Types|*]]
[[Category:Terminology]]
[[Category:Game mechanics]]
[[Category:Pokémon world]]

[[de:Typen]]
[[es:Tipos elementales]]
[[fr:Type]]
[[it:Tipo]]
[[ja:タイプ]]
[[zh:属性]]

User talk:Force Fire/Archive 9

2018-11-15T23:38:42Z

Felthry: /* Statistic */

{{User:Force Fire/Archive}}

== Subpages of a userpage ==

Hello, I noticed you warning people about their userpages, so I thought you'd be the right person to ask this. The thing is, I would like to create a subpage listing my in-game teams using the standard team template, since I want there to be more things related to Pokémon and me on my page. I wanted to ask whether or not it is allowed at all and what I should keep in mind besides not editing excessively. Thank you! [[User:Kikugi|Kikugi]] ([[User talk:Kikugi|talk]]) 10:16, 9 May 2018 (UTC)
:Making subpages for that is fine, the rules for subpages is the same as a normal userpage. An edit to your subpage also counts to the "three userspace edits per day" rule.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 10:28, 9 May 2018 (UTC)

== Another offensive username ==

Puta is a really rude word in Spanish(I think the account maker failed to use proper alts, but their intent is clear...is this worth your time for an unacceptable username?--[[User:BlisseyandtheAquaJets|BlisseyandtheAquaJets]] ([[User talk:BlisseyandtheAquaJets|talk]]) 17:16, 9 May 2018 (UTC)

== "Not everything is a pun" ==

...I never said everything is, but SM is known for them and "ワル" is not a Japanese word, but "warui" (悪い) is! And since it's spelled as "ワル" and "Warubiaru" (ワルビアル) is in the episode it makes sense it's a pun. I have no idea what your problem is and I don't care, but I've already explained why it's a pun. "ワル" isn't used as "bad" in katakana, but words are used in different characters when they're a joke. Like the episode with Dhelmise with "Ikari" (anger) being used as "いかり" as "anchor" but the same spelling "Ikari" also can be used to mean "怒り" (anger). [[User:Playerking95|Playerking95]] ([[User talk:Playerking95|talk]]) 19:31, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
:Please respond and change it back because it's not spelled the right way, meaning it is a pun. I don't care what your problem is, but not correctly addressing a pun in a title that clearly has one just makes Bulbapedia look stupid. I've been obvious why it's a pun. Why can episode titles like SM071, SM065, and SM040 be acknowledged but not this? [[User:Playerking95|Playerking95]] ([[User talk:Playerking95|talk]]) 14:54, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
::Just because "waru" is written in katakana, doesn't mean it no longer means "悪" or has a different meaning. "ワル" is still "悪", it's not some nonsensical word. And yes, "悪" can be used by itself. As for the title, "waru" could also be referring to Nanu, considering his attire and the fact the title includes "oyaji" (since it's "...waru oyaji wa...").
::As for the other episodes, they're fine. Ikari can mean either Anchor and Anger, like you said, so that's a pun. "Mairimasu" ''is'' pure nonsense and could only be a pun. "Pan-paka-pan" is a trumpet fanfare with just happens to include the word "pan", and the episode was about bread.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 15:20, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
:::The idea that not translating a pun is bad needs to be addressed.
:::Translating puns is HARD.
:::It is ''not'' always worth wracking your brain over or compensating for otherwise. And it's not even necessarily worth forcing something. Not translating a pun does not make Bulbapedia look stupid... [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 15:37, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

== Surge/Terrain confusion ==

There's confusion going on in the anime whether the [[Tapu]] are activating their signature abilities or using the Terrain moves. This issue has been resolved with {{DL|Recurring wild Pokémon in the anime|Tapu Koko}}, but people are still mixing up {{DL|Recurring wild Pokémon in the anime|Tapu Lele}} and {{DL|Recurring wild Pokémon in the anime|Tapu Bulu}}'s Abilities with their Terrain moves. When Tapu Lele and Tapu Bulu activated their Abilities {{a|Psychic Surge}} and {{a|Grassy Surge}} respectively, users are assuming that they are using the attacks {{m|Psychic Terrain}} and {{m|Grassy Terrain}} instead. That is not the case. In ''[[SM037|Rising from the Ruins!]]'' and [[SM075]], when Tapu Lele and Tapu Bulu enter battle with Rockruff and {{AP|Lycanroc}} respectively, their Surge Abilities go off at the start of their battles. This happened with Tapu Koko as well when it battled {{AP|Pikachu}} in ''[[SM002|The Guardian's Challenge!]]'' and ''[[SM019|A Guardian Rematch!]]''. The Terrain moves can go off during any point of the battle, however the Surge Abilities can only activate when the Pokémon enter the field. Another point to show that it's their abilities activating in those episodes and not their attacks is in ''[[SM052|Revealing the Stuff of Legend!]]'' where all four Tapu used the four Terrain moves to show {{Ash}} and {{ashfr|the gang}} [[Nebby#In_the_anime|Nebby]]'s backstory. Even the anime makes mistakes as shown in SM075 where [[Acerola]] and {{Rotom}} misidentify Tapu Bulu's Grassy Surge as Grassy Terrain. --[[User:PKMNAdventurer|PKMNAdventurer]] ([[User talk:PKMNAdventurer|talk]]) 21:32, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
:I've removed them and added a hidden notice. Abilities and moves need to be explicitly said, especially those that would potentially have the same exact animation.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 03:11, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
::Ok, looks like Psychic Terrain was confirmed via dub captions (which is fine, until/unless the Japanese version says that it's something else later on). Grassy Terrain was said, which you've noted. Is it an error? We don't know. But for now, it is not an error unless they contradict themselves and call it Grassy Surge later on. At the end of the day, the is no confusion. Assuming moves is something you shouldn't be doing. If it is said or revealed in close caption, then that's final.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 12:08, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
:::Ok. I wanted to make sure if the move used was either the Terrain Move or the Surge Ability. Thank you for clearing it up. --[[User:PKMNAdventurer|PKMNAdventurer]] ([[User talk:PKMNAdventurer|talk]]) 20:48, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

== Requests ==

If you would be so kind, could you please hear me out and consider doing a couple things I can't do (at least without permission, in some cases):
* Template {{template|Trainerentry}} has several handy redirects for Trainer classes that have changed their names over the years, such as "Cooltrainer" to "Ace Trainer" and "Rocket" to "Team Rocket Grunt". However, there are several Trainer class name changes that have either been missed or happened after the template was last edited, like "Rocket Grunt"{{tt|*|From Generation II}} to "Team Rocket Grunt", "Pokéfan" to "Poké Fan", "Swimmer ♂/♀" to "Swimmer", and "Clerk ♂/♀" to "Office Worker". There may be others than these, but anyway, my point is, could you please add the missing redirects to the template in the same way as the already existing redirects?
* Back in January, I suggested that the [[Pokémon League (Alola)/Title Defense]] page should be split into separate SM and USUM Title Defense pages. I've already got the USUM section ready right [[User:FinnishPokéFan92/Pokémon League (Alola)/Title Defense/Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon|here]] under my own userspace in case the idea gets approved. Do you think the page should be split?
* Ummm... I recall having a third request, but it doesn't come to my mind right now. I'll come back if I can remember it.
:--[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 12:59, 20 May 2018 (UTC)
::I've added the examples you've provided. If there are any more, do let me know.
::I've forwarded the article with the other staff members.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 08:16, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
:::Thank you for hearing me out. And indeed, I've discovered a few more redirect links that should be fixed: "Officer" and "Policeman" to "Police Officer", "Interviewer" to "Interviewers", "Socialite" to "Madame", and "School Kid" to "Schoolkid". Also, a couple of other things related to this subject:
::::In Generation II, the "Swimmer" class was classified as "Swimmer♂/♀", as in without a space, while in Generation VI, it's "Swimmer ♂/♀", as in ''with'' a space. The latter redirect is yet to be fixed.
::::In Generation II, the Trainer class that would later be known as "Schoolkid" was called "Schoolboy", hence why "Schoolboy" redirects to "Schoolkid" (or rather "School Kid", a redirect link). And then, in Generation VI, we were introduced to the separate "Schoolboy" Trainer class. As such, the Schoolboy links from Generation VI now lead to an incorrect article (similar to the "Medium" link from [[Saffron Gym]]'s page, actually, due to the Channeler class's renaming in Stadium, but that's a much more minor subject). I know this may be an impossible or at least a difficult problem to solve properly, but I decided to bring it up nevertheless, just in case.
:::The request I forgot about yesterday is actually a pretty old one: back in 2013, I made a suggestion to change the {{template|Gym Leaders of Unova}} to better separate the BW and B2W2 Gym Leaders from each other, but my edit (which you can see [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Template:Gym_Leaders_of_Unova&oldid=1865505 here]) was undone, because I hadn't talked about it beforehand. Since then, I've forgotten, remembered, and re-forgotten this multiple times, but now I've finally managed to make myself bring this long-forgotten topic up again. Could the template be edited in this or at least in a similar kind of way, or do you feel it's good enough as it is?
:::Also, I've also come up with a couple new things I'd want to propose since yesterday: could "Tide Song Hotel" and "Kantonian Gym" receive their own articles? I've already asked people's opinions about these ideas on [[Heahea City]] and [[Malie City]]'s talk pages, and at least the Tide Song Hotel split seems to have gotten some support already. Could you take these splits into consideration as well? Thank you.
:::--[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 10:04, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
::::Oh, and while I'm at it, I also found one Orre Trainer class redirect to fix: "Fun Old Lady" to "Matron". --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 12:35, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
:::::Ah, didn't see the subtle difference with the Swimmer trainer class. I've added the other TCs.
:::::I think the Unova Gym Leader Template is fine the way it is. Repeating the same Gym Leaders is pretty unnecessary, while I do get why, the template is about who are the Gym Leaders, separating by game isn't necessary. Plus, the three newer Gym Leaders being at the bottom of the first eight already implies that they were added later on.
:::::I've forwarded those suggestions to the other admins as well.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 05:11, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
::::::I actually just saw you making that edit. Thanks a lot.
::::::I understand. It's fine. I won't raise that topic again.
::::::Thanks once again. I'll be waiting for the results. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 05:36, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
:::::::Sorry to bother you again, but I've found a couple more links to fix, mainly from the Orre games:
::::::::Let's get the simpler ones out of the way first: "Researcher" and "Cipher R&D" to "Scientist".
::::::::Now, for something I'm not so sure of: the Orre-exclusive classes "Rogue" "Kaminko Aide", and "Robo Groudon" are Trainer classes used by only one person each, and they also only appear as redirect links on one page each. Hence why I'm not sure if these redirects should be removed or not. What do you think?
::::::::And finally, something a bit different, but still involving the same template. A big number of Fighting-type Trainers in FireRed and LeafGreen have their Pokémon holding Black Belts. However, the template links the "Black Belt" held item to "Type-enhancing item#Black Belt". This was understandable before, but now "Black Belt (item)" has its own article. Could you change the link to go to the item's own page now?
:::::::Thank you. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 06:59, 25 May 2018 (UTC)
::::::::Done. As for the three single trainer trainer classes, I think they're fine, due to the way the template works (the second parameter is under a TC template, so their has to be a [name] (Trainer class) link.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 03:29, 26 May 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::Thank you once again. However, when I looked at your edits, I also happened to notice that, similar to the Black Belt link you fixed, the held item link for "Metronome" leads to "In-battle effect item#Metronome". I can understand that you didn't notice that during your edit, so I'm not blaming you of anything, but could you be so kind and fix that one, too? --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 05:25, 26 May 2018 (UTC)
::::::::::Whoopsie! Every time I think I'm done with this issue, I notice something new. The redirect link of "Poké'''F'''an" to "Poké Fan" has been fixed, but it's formatted as "Poké'''f'''an" on every pre-Generation VI page (as well as on the "Poké Fan (Trainer class)" article), and ''that'' redirect link still remains to be fixed. Could you do this one more thing? I'm sorry if you feel bothered by this. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 12:40, 27 May 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::::(deep sigh) One. More. Once again I've noticed something. In Generation II, some Poké Fans had their Pokémon holding Berries, as in "Berry (item)", but link just goes to "Berry". Could that be fixed? PS. I also have other stuff to talk about with you, but I'll probably start a new section for that purpose later. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 08:04, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

== Force preview question ==

I've heard about the force preview group, where you have to preview your edits before publishing them. And I thought it might help me slow down and evaluate if my edits are actually helpful, since I have a tendency to act impulsively. Is it possible to ask to be put in that group? I was just curious. [[User:Veralann|'''Incentive'''''' (a.k.a. Veralann)''']] 02:49, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

== PokeShay ==

I think it was a little harsh to block him for that. You could've just asked about it on his talk page. --[[User:Raltseye|Raltseye]] [[User talk:Raltseye|prata med mej]] 16:03, 24 May 2018 (UTC)

== "Pokémon seen" lists for movie locations ==

I wasn't too sure who to ask about this, though I have noticed that some movie-based locations have got the "Pokémon seen" lists and others don't. What is the requirement for these types of pages?. E.g. The Lake of Life has an incomplete list whilst Forina and the Tree of Beginning do not have any list, instead the Pokémon are just listed in the description section.

Also who is the authority on uploading images to the archives? I have a few images in mind that are needed to complete other pages like the Pokémon mate page.

Thanks. [[User:PardescanSlowbro|PardescanSlowbro]] ([[User talk:PardescanSlowbro|talk]]) 09:55, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
:Locations where Pokémon actually live there have the Pokémon list. Though I'm not too sure if it's needed, as most are just wild Pokémon. Maybe if they play a large role in the area, such as the titans in Tree of Beginning, then they can be listed. Otherwise, it's unnecessary. As for the archives, you have to create an account at the archives and wait to be autoconfirmed there (the requirements are the same as it is on the wiki).--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 02:43, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

::Thank you for the information. [[User:PardescanSlowbro|PardescanSlowbro]] ([[User talk:PardescanSlowbro|talk]]) 09:36, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

== Unaccpetable username ==

[[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Special:Contributions/Son_of_a_gun]] {{unsigned|RubyLeafGreenCrystal}}
:No it's not.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 02:43, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

== Bulbapedia lagging ==

Not really sure if this is the appropriate place to ask, but is the site undergoing updates or something? Loading for this site is lagging for me. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 20:45, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

:Never mind. The issue seems to have resolved itself. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 21:48, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

== Could I have my userspace privileges back? ==

It's been like 6 years and I mostly just wanna delete it lmao --[[User:Pokelova|Pokelova]] ([[User talk:Pokelova|talk]]) 12:17, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
:Done.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 14:18, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

== Edgreen293 ==

{{user|Edgreen293}} is at it again ([https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Chopper&diff=prev&oldid=2803690] [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Janet&diff=prev&oldid=2803692] [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Damian&diff=prev&oldid=2803693]). [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 22:29, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
: I might also add {{user|Tygamer64}} since both GrammarFreak01 and I were discussing him on his talk page. Since he has made rather pointless edits and we were told to report these cases. '''Ice''' [[User talk:The IceCream|Cream]] 15:25, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

== RE: Episode links ==

The links I added are from a licensed Pokémon copyright holder, so there is no copyright issue here. They are all legal.--[[User:Magicknight94|Magicknight94]] ([[User talk:Magicknight94|talk]]) 09:31, 6 June 2018 (UTC)
:Did you read my reply?--[[User:Magicknight94|Magicknight94]] ([[User talk:Magicknight94|talk]]) 14:52, 7 June 2018 (UTC)
::You still can't link to full episodes or episode clips, regardless of whether it comes from an official source or not.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 04:35, 8 June 2018 (UTC)
:::Why not? If copyright is not the issue here, what is the problem? Can you explain? --[[User:Magicknight94|Magicknight94]] ([[User talk:Magicknight94|talk]]) 07:33, 8 June 2018 (UTC)
:::Hello?--[[User:Magicknight94|Magicknight94]] ([[User talk:Magicknight94|talk]]) 05:22, 11 June 2018 (UTC)
::::Be patient. Force Fire is probably busy. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 05:31, 11 June 2018 (UTC)
:::::The issue '''is''' copyright. We choose not to link to episodes available on streaming sites, regardless of it being from an official source or not, just to be on the safe side. Also, the link you provided was for the Vietnamese dub, which I don't think anyone visiting an ''English'' wiki would be interested in.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 05:14, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

== Pokemon 4ever working title? ==

https://www.serebii.net/archive/September-2000.shtml Scrolling down that page a bit shows a 7-frame promo for a project simply called ''Pokémon 2001'' and one of the frames shows a Celebi, no plans to currently add anything about it to the Pokémon 4ever page but I was wondering what your thoughts were on this. ''[[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen]] [[User talk:Frozen Fennec|Fennec]]'' 14:05, 13 June 2018 (UTC)
:Do you have another source for that other than Serebii? Serebii is not a credible source, as it's a fansite.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 13:10, 14 June 2018 (UTC)
::Nope, just randomly came across that and given how old the page was, got a little curious. Tried to reverse image search the frames but could not find anything at all. ''[[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen]] [[User talk:Frozen Fennec|Fennec]]'' 13:12, 14 June 2018 (UTC)
:::Not sure if I can post this video, but here's video proof. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Od-eFQhVRI [[User:Playerking95|Playerking95]] ([[User talk:Playerking95|talk]]) 13:56, 14 June 2018 (UTC)
::::Oh wow, did not know there was still video footage, I just thought it was those seven screenshots. Wonder if this would be worth adding to the Pokémon 4ever section as trivia. ''[[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen]] [[User talk:Frozen Fennec|Fennec]]'' 14:01, 14 June 2018 (UTC)

== PardescanSlowbro ==

I'm having a really big problem with {{user|PardescanSlowbro}} right now. I once sent him [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3APardescanSlowbro&type=revision&diff=2768197&oldid=2766807 this message] in response to his editing style, and [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3APardescanSlowbro&type=revision&diff=2768426&oldid=2768197 he took it pretty personally] (even though I was also [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AGrammarFreak01&type=revision&diff=2768465&oldid=2766949 in the wrong here]). Since then, the user has made edits to a variety of articles, and I've commonly had to edit them to rectify errors that he made. For example, [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=EP045&type=revision&diff=2809520&oldid=2806418 he very recently edited] the plot summary of [[EP045]] and [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=EP045&diff=next&oldid=2809520 this] was what I did to improve it (note that I also did some unrelated changes at the same time).

[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3APardescanSlowbro&type=revision&diff=2801230&oldid=2801220 I once tried] to inform him of some of the kinds of errors he kept making in his edits, like [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AGrammarFreak01&type=revision&diff=2768465&oldid=2766949 you suggested], but [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3APardescanSlowbro&type=revision&diff=2801256&oldid=2801230 this] was his response. He also said [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3APardescanSlowbro&type=revision&diff=2801220&oldid=2801168 this beforehand]. [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3APardescanSlowbro&type=revision&diff=2801258&oldid=2801256 I tried] to be rational and explain myself this time, but the conversation did not move forward anymore, so I gave up trying to reason with him and just resorted to editing at his heels whenever I saw an error. He eventually [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3APardescanSlowbro&type=revision&diff=2809534&oldid=2809278 got agitated] by this. [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3APardescanSlowbro&type=revision&diff=2809538&oldid=2809534 I tried] asking for specifics about his complaints of me, but [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3APardescanSlowbro&type=revision&diff=2809541&oldid=2809538 he claimed I already knew what I was doing] (I legitimately do not). After I [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3APardescanSlowbro&type=revision&diff=2809547&oldid=2809541 responded a couple of times], he went on [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3APardescanSlowbro&type=revision&diff=2809557&oldid=2809547 a tirade] against me.

If any, if not all of his grievances towards me are legitimate, then I do apologize immensely. But I sincerely believe I've been trying to be helpful and he just rebuffs it. Either way, could you please step in? [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 07:39, 17 June 2018 (UTC)

:He also had [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3APardescanSlowbro&type=revision&diff=2809565&oldid=2809561 this] to say recently. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 07:44, 17 June 2018 (UTC)

::{{user|Tiddlywinks}} has [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:PardescanSlowbro&diff=0&oldid=2809568 pitched in]. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 19:25, 17 June 2018 (UTC)

== Harassment Procedure ==

Dear ForceFire,

I have felt personally vindicated and harassed by the user GrammarFreak01 on a continuous basis. I have pleaded to be left alone by the user and made them clearly aware of my feelings on their conduct towards myself. I was never under the assumption that any of my edits were to be untouched, though found the user in question deliberately followed and made, in some cases minor and pointless changes to over 40 pages (Episode 1 to 46 and some associated anime pages) directly after I did over recent days. The pages in question, at least the plot sections required some detail corrections but until my additions had not been looked at for several years. I had earlier requested significant action be taken against the user on Tiddlywinks page after an earlier spate of unexplained deletions to additions which were quickly reinstated by Tiddlywinks. Nothing came of this request on Tiddlywinks page, and the behaviour has persisted and worsened into vitriol that centres on GrammarFreak01's belief I referred to them as racist, though nothing of the sorts has occurred. I can no longer handle the barrage of blatancy and continuous harassment written on my discussion page by GrammarFreak01, and wish for those actions to end. At all times I have maintained my distance, and have thanked the user for their efforts when they have worked in collaboration with myself. Though their commentary and vicious attacks on my supposed sensitivities and linguistics must end. I have let things slide, despite my discontent, as to avoid further escalation. The user has been told to maintain their distance and respect previously written advices to improve their conduct, though such warnings remain unheeded and their pattern of behaviour towards me continues to intensify. I am completely naïve when it comes to Bulbapedia's bullying procedures, though require strong action be taken to ensure the harassment, belittlement and bullying that I have been exposed to by user GrammarFreak01 does not ever repeat.

I look forward to your reply, though will maintain my reserve and distance nonetheless,
[[User:PardescanSlowbro|PardescanSlowbro]] ([[User talk:PardescanSlowbro|talk]]) 12:04, 17 June 2018 (UTC)

: Seeing as I have been the only one to receive any commentary it is best I be moved on. My claims have been outright ignored and also denied, despite the sheer amount of evidence to say otherwise. At the very least the user in question should have been told to remain at a distance, though has immediately gone on the attack again; though of course I am making everything up and overreacting as you pointed out. As such, please delete my account, this forum is no longer suitable to myself, my temperament or my skills. Thanks.[[User:PardescanSlowbro|PardescanSlowbro]] ([[User talk:PardescanSlowbro|talk]]) 13:44, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

== Move trivia ==

How do I know if trivia about moves is notable? The stuff I add sometimes gets undone even if it's unique to that move. [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 17:54, 18 June 2018 (UTC)
:Depends on what the trivia is.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 05:34, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
::I guess a recent example would be my attempt to add a trivium to thunder wave. It said that thunder wave is currently the only status move whose effectiveness depends on the type chart, so that ground Pokemon were immune because it was electric type and not because it was programmed separately. I thought it was unique and notable, but it was taken down. [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 17:57, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

== Erica124 yet again ==

{{user|Erica124}} has once again shown [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Walking_Pok%C3%A9mon&type=revision&diff=2810509&oldid=2808316 her inability] to use her force preview, despite [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AErica124&type=revision&diff=2808504&oldid=2771952 my earlier warning]. Maybe it's time to let her go? [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 04:24, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
:Perma-blocking her is for the staff to decide, not you. You also need to calm down when approaching "problem" users, yes their continuous wrongdoings can be frustrating, by try to keep a level head when dealing with them. As for blocking, it's not excessive. Can't do much if it's a once in a while thing.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 05:34, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
::Oh, I thought you were part of staff? [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
:::Also, just so you know, it's not a once-in-a-while thing. Erica124 made [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Walking_Pok%C3%A9mon&type=revision&diff=2756991&oldid=2756735 the same exact error] on the same article before, and [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AErica124&type=revision&diff=2808504&oldid=2771952 I did warn her about it once]. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 06:59, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
::::I am. A perma block is something that needs to be discussed with other staff members first, not just immediately executed, unless the user we're dealing with is a vandal.
::::Yes, but her recent spate of unpreviewed edits aren't happening as frequently as it did back in March. She's not editing daily. She only didn't use the preview button on one article today. The last one before today was June 15th, four days ago. And the one before that was last month. Compare it to March where it was almost daily. --[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 07:25, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
:::::Oh, okay. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 07:51, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

== Reply ==

Anything to say on my page? [[User:RubyLeafGreenCrystal|RubyLeafGreenCrystal]] ([[User talk:RubyLeafGreenCrystal|talk]]) 06:39, 26 June 2018 (UTC)

== Quick query==
This is present in the trivia section on the Slowbro page:

*Slowbro's Pokédex entries state that if the Shellder is removed, it will revert to its Slowpoke form.
**This is the only mentioning of a Pokémon possibly devolving anywhere in the Pokémon games, aside from a card in the game versions of the TCG.

The first part is fine, the second point is incorrect as Exeggutor can also revert. Should the second point be deleted entirely as it both untrue and not unique or altered to include a connection with Exeggutor

e.g Slowbro and Exeggutor are the only recorded cases of Pokémon capable of devolution [[User:PardescanSlowbro|PardescanSlowbro]] ([[User talk:PardescanSlowbro|talk]]) 12:43, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
:The second point may be removed as it is not unique to one Pokémon.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 13:19, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

:: No worries, thank you.[[User:PardescanSlowbro|PardescanSlowbro]] ([[User talk:PardescanSlowbro|talk]]) 13:40, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

== Poké Problem characters list ==

OK, so my recent edit of [[SM080]] was taken down by you on the basis that, since the Pokémon I put on the appearance list appeared exclusively in the episode's Poké Problem, it doesn't deserve a mention (since Poké Problems are part of the episode apparently). I've also noticed that some edits on [[SM079]] also got erased on the same reason. Yet previous episodes' character lists feature characters that only appeared in the episodes' Poké Problem segments (for example Brock & Misty's siblings in [[SM042]]'s case and Harper and Sarah for [[SM071]]). As such, I have to wonder why its sometimes okay for characters and Pokémon that appeared exclusively in the Poké Problem of an episode to be mentioned on the character lists of said episode, but other times it's not OK? [[User:Pulsaro23|Pulsaro23]] ([[User talk:Pulsaro23|talk]]) 17:03, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
:Then those need to removed from their episodes and any other episodes that list PokéProblem appearances needs to be fixed. PokéProblem is a segment similar to Who's That Pokémon, it is not part of the actual episode.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 13:57, 30 June 2018 (UTC)
::While I'll agree that the Poké Problem and Who's that Pokémon segments share a similarity (the fact that they are tied to a situation/Pokémon from the episode), they are also very different. By that I mean that, while the WtP segment doesn't have any impact on the overall story of the episode, the bonus scenes shown after the Poké Problem segments expand upon the story of the episode (personally, I'd say they're very similar to the after-credits scenes form the Marvel & DC movies). For example, the Poké Problem segments for SM022 and SM057 feature scenes that resolve the episodes' ending cliffhangers, while others, like the ones for SM042 and SM030, flesh out more of the characters' personality and traits, as well as showing their relationships with other characters. As such, I'd say that, while Poké Problem segments are really part of the main episode, they still have some degree of importance, since the scenes shown at the end of those segments expand upon the main theme/story/characters of the episode (and as such, they should, as you say, "count"). Plus, in the case of the XY series, characters that appeared exclusively in its Poké TV segments were mentioned on the appearance list for its episodes (e.g. XY096, XY099, XY106 etc.). So why should the Poké TV segments receive special treatment and the Poké Problem ones not? [[User:Pulsaro23|Pulsaro23]] ([[User talk:Pulsaro23|talk]]) 14:37, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

== Usage of the word "native" ==

{{user|PardescanSlowbro}} is [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Raichu_%28Pok%C3%A9mon%29&type=revision&diff=2813914&oldid=2812285 concerned] about using the word "native" to describe the residents of [[Alola]] in the {{p|Raichu}} article, due to its connection to indigenous peoples who have been plagued with stereotypes and also its purported implicit nature as a development discourse, thus making it potentially offensive to some people. I did not see anything wrong with the word's usage, however, since it can alternatively be used as a synonym for "resident" or "citizen", as I [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3APardescanSlowbro&type=revision&diff=2813930&oldid=2813886 pointed out to him]. He's still concerned and has [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:PardescanSlowbro&diff=next&oldid=2813930 pointed out] that official literature no longer uses the word, seemingly making it taboo, even though I have still heard it being used in the context I just described.

Do you think it is appropriate to use "native" in any shape or form here? I'm not aware of any other articles here that use the word. I do acknowledge the potential issue of indigenous peoples being offended, but I don't think anyone will be offended given the word's context in the Raichu article. What do you think? [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 06:12, 30 June 2018 (UTC)
:It's fine to use the word "native". No need to think that someone will get offended by the word.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 09:44, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

:: You failed to acknowledge my concerns, and reverted my re-edit after GrammarFreak01 again deleted it. The latest addition aided the sentence in making it more concise, and as stated, the phrase 'the natives' is not used by the Pokémon Company in any of it literature, and probably for good measure. The term 'native' to mean local makes sense though should only be applied to describe an area or plant such as on the Vileplume page under the biology section. I would like another opinion as you have allowed a good edit to be reverted[[User:PardescanSlowbro|PardescanSlowbro]] ([[User talk:PardescanSlowbro|talk]]) 05:52, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
:::It's very clear you changed the sentence because of your dislike of the word "native", whether it was a good change or not. You made the change because there was a word you didn't like. That's why it got reverted. There's is nothing wrong with using the word. The Pokémon Company not using it doesn't mean we can't use the word. You're thinking too much into the negative connotation of the word.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 06:00, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
:::: Negative connotations is your justification? I saw the term and looked at it as an opportunity to make a positive change in line with one of Bulbapedia's major aims, inclusivity. Allowing the phrase 'the natives' is an issue as it is loaded language and may be used on other pages in much the same way. But correcting the term to something more global and neutral has become the issue, leaving aside the issues associated with using this turn of phrase in the first place, even though the original editor of course had no intention of being racist or degrading to particular demographics. By actually allowing this term to pass through with your acceptance, you are also condoning the use of this term in much the same way across potentially other articles and it may enter people's own thoughts on people of different backgrounds. Inclusivity was my motivation because of the so-called negative and very true reality for many individuals on this planet, that terms like this are harmful. I cannot imagine the editor's guide has any detail on this specific turn of phrase, though it would diffidently be designed to uphold inclusivity of all peoples.[[User:PardescanSlowbro|PardescanSlowbro]] ([[User talk:PardescanSlowbro|talk]]) 06:23, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
:::::You just admitted that the editor that added the word had no intention of being racist or degrading, if you already think that then it shouldn't be an issue. It's not offensive unless someone makes it offensive. The sentence is in no way written in an offensive manner, and no one will take it as an insult. You're looking to much into it.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 06:57, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
::::::I'm afraid you are wrong when it comes to the development discourse, it is an issue incidental or not. I am going to contact someone higher up to alert them to my concerns about the phrase, not word, "the natives", as you have plainly ignored the fact that such terminology is typically avoided due to taboo and discrimination surrounding it. Thanks [[User:PardescanSlowbro|PardescanSlowbro]] ([[User talk:PardescanSlowbro|talk]]) 07:06, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
:::::::When used correctly, "native" can also be "global and neutral". The only way it can be considered "loaded language" is if the person writing it in question ''makes'' it loaded language. I understand the history behind the word, and I also understand that the current political climate makes usage of certain words even more dangerous, but if the word has alternate meanings that are more acceptable, then I don't see why we must avoid using it, no matter how incidental the racism. If you have a problem with it, take it up with Merriam-Webster, not the admins here. If someone else does have a problem with it, we'll talk it out, see where it goes. But in the meantime, we can't simply just avoid using a certain word out of concern of potentially offending someone, even if the word in question is used in an appropriate, non-offensive context. I can't think of anyone else here who would think this word, or similarly loaded language of any kind, should be omitted in its entirety even though it's being used in a non-offensive context. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 07:11, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
::::::::Exactly. The word is not used in a derogatory manner, it is completely fine. It's all about context, and in this case, the context is not offensive. The only person that has a problem with it is you, Pardescan. And we won't change it just because one person thinks it may be offensive. I'll repeat this again, because you seem to be ignoring it, '''you are looking too much into the negative aspects of the word'''.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 07:32, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::It looks like [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AAbcboy&type=revision&diff=2814552&oldid=2806683 he's made good on his promise]. I've already pitched my counterargument. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 07:43, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

== Template mainspace request ==

For the new Light trio page, there would need to be six Pokémon in the stats section, but there is no such template. I made a [[User:Celadonkey/Template:Groupstats/6|template]] for it and I wanted to know if I could mainspace it to add to the Light trio page. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celadonkey]] 14:05, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

== Integration of Spaceworld Iterations of Existing Pokémon ==

I felt I would ask this here, since you're the one who linked the in-progress pages for the Pokémon Gold/Silver Spaceworld demo and you seem to know what the plans for them are, and the Gold and Silver Beta discussion page is rather cluttered and doesn't seem like a good place to catch the attention of anybody in particular.

There are a number of Pokémon added for the demo that did end up being released as official Pokémon, such as the Mareep, and Phanpy lines, Crobat, Espeon, Umbreon, Miltank, and others, who are present in the Spaceworld demo build, sometimes with different names and subtly-different designs. Additionally, there are Pokémon such as Haneko, Poponeko, and Wataneko, Gift, Blissey, Scissors, Leafeon, etc. that are very obviously earlier drafts of Pokémon that would appear in Generation II or later.

Are these Pokémon going to be integrated into the site differently compared to, say, Pokémon like Honoguma, Kurusu, Norowara, Wolfman, or Twinz, that were very clearly cut entirely and have yet to appear in any official, publicly-released Pokémon game?

As an aside, how are name labels going to be handled for Pokémon such as Kingdra, Girafarig, and Bellossom, whose final names are already present and in use in the demo? It seems to me that the sensible thing to do would be to label them with their final English names, since the names they have do have official English-language counterparts, and it would be clearer and easier to read for readers who might be unfamiliar with with the Japanese names of those Pokémon.
[[User:Topaz Light|Topaz Light]] ([[User talk:Topaz Light|talk]]) 14:38, 3 July 2018 (UTC)
:Right now, the focus should be filling out the userpages with information before all that. The staff will figure out how the handle them in the mean time.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 05:58, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

== A Small Request ==

Hi. A while ago I had asked to be put in the forcepreview group for editing. If possible, I think I'm ready to edit without needing to look at all my edits beforehand. If you could please take me out of forcepreview, and abuse as well, I would really appreciate it. Thank you. [[User:Veralann|'''Incentive'''''' (a.k.a. Veralann)''']] 19:57, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
:I'll take you out of force preview, but not out of abuse. You have not made nearly enough mainspace edits to warrant be placed out of abuse. Being away for a month means absolutely nothing. If you want out of abuse, prove that you will contribute more to the mainspace by making a whole lot of edits there.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 05:04, 6 July 2018 (UTC)

== Random question ==

On the Pokemon articles, why do the Pokedex entry, location, and sprite tables always put Emerald before FireRed and LeafGreen even though Emerald was released after? [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 18:42, 12 July 2018 (UTC)
:Probably to group the hoenn games together.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 05:18, 13 July 2018 (UTC)
::Thanks for answering, I guess. [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 06:03, 13 July 2018 (UTC)

== Bulbapedia lagging again ==

It seems this site is becoming very laggy for me. Is there an issue with the site? [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 06:28, 16 July 2018 (UTC)
:Site's running smoothly for me. Probably something on your end.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 06:37, 16 July 2018 (UTC)
::Well, it seems the site's running smoothly for me now. It might've had something to do with the connection. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 06:42, 16 July 2018 (UTC)

== List of locations by name ==

I personally think the page should stop excluding named routes. Even if we somehow made the definition clear, I still don't want people checking both that page and "list of routes" to see if either of them has the location they want. I also don't see a good reason for the exclusion. I think excluding cities and numbered routes is okay because people can tell if somewhere is a city or numbered route just by looking at the name. Even then, I'm leaning toward including cities because some places (like Two Island) don't end in "City" or "Town" and aren't obviously cities. [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 05:40, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

== Staff imitating user ==

{{u|Форс файре}} is a cyrillisation of your name. --[[User:Raltseye|Raltseye]] [[User talk:Raltseye|prata med mej]] 18:47, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

== Nintenchris5963 ==

The user {{user|Nintenchris5963}} added something to the [[Talk:Mt. Silver]] which I'm pretty sure isn't allowed on talk pages. Should the comment he made be removed or should it stay? (I'm only asking since it's normally not allowed to remove Talk Page comments). '''Ice''' [[User talk:The IceCream|Cream]] 10:46, 19 July 2018 (UTC)
:You can remove comments that breach the talk page policy.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 11:53, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

== "Faint" versus "Get knocked out" ==

"Faint" is the more technical term, so I try to change "knocked out" to "faint" wherever I can. Also, a few days ago, I tried to look for information about fainting by doing ctrl+f "faint" and couldn't find anything because the article said "knocked out" instead, so what I wanted took me a few minutes longer to find. I eventually made that edit in attempt to save time for anyone who might attempt the same thing in the future. [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 15:03, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
:That sounds like a problem specifically for you. We are not going to cater the site whenever you face a problem. "Knocked out" carries the same meaning as "fainted", like what else could it possibly mean.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 15:21, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
::The reasons why "fainted" is better than "knocked out", however insignificant, exist. Is there a reason why "knocked out" is better than "fainted"? And aren't we supposed to use technical terms over "fanmade terms" whenever possible? [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 23:25, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
:::Neither is better, but both '''mean the same thing in spirit''' (unable to battle). It's not a necessary change. And "knocked out" is not "fan made" it's just a word used to substitute "fainted". Using a word that is not official doesn't make the word "fan made", that's just being ridiculous. Don't change things because you couldn't find something, just because you couldn't find something doesn't mean everyone else will face the same problem.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 02:57, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
::::If neither is better, why do you care which one the article says? [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 17:28, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
:::::Because it's an '''unnecessary change'''. Just because we use another word other than fainted, doesn't make that word fan-made. Like in a plot synopsis, we're not going to use the term "fainted" every time a Pokémon faints, we're going to use other terms like "knocked out" from time to time. Y'know, have a bit of variety in our articles.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 05:12, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
::::::That section was a game mechanic, not a plot synopsis. Aren't they different? [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 17:45, 1 August 2018 (UTC)
:::::::That's not the point. The point is, '''it's an unnecessary change'''. Stop reading what you want to read. It doesn't matter if it's not using the word "faint". Using another word other than "faint" doesn't make the article more inaccurate. It's just a word. You're thinking too much into it. No one will get confused by the term "knocked out". They'll know what it means.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 05:09, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
:::::I think what Force Fire tries to tell you isn't "don't change specifically this to specifically that", it's rather "don't change '''anything''' if the change doesn't clearly improve the article". The larger the number of edits, the more work there is for the servers; we should only change anything if it's justified. That's why he cares which one of the equally good terms stays — because changing it will unnecessarily overload servers. First come, first served in this case. [[User:Kikugi|Kikugi]] ([[User talk:Kikugi|talk]]) 15:37, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

== Mallow Tsareena Sweet Scent ==

Hi. So in SM082 Mallow's Tsareena does something that some would describe as Sweet Scent, as it has a similar appearance and effect to how the move was used in its pre-evolved forms. PlayerKing95 has removed it because we don't have enough proof, despite the evidence pointing towards it. I, as well as another user, has reached out to him to discuss it. It has been more than a week now and he has ignored multiple messages to resolve this issue, and it is making me think that he will continue to ignore messages because it means the page can't be changed. Could I get some help with this? Thank you. --[[User:Rahl|Rahl]] ([[User talk:Rahl|talk]]) 14:48, 4 August 2018 (UTC)
:I have given him a message. I currently have no strong opinions on this matter, generally we can say it's Sweet Scent because the animation is unlikely to change upon evolution. But I'm interested in what Playerking has to say.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 15:11, 4 August 2018 (UTC)
::Thank you, looks like he finally responded to it. Based on his answer is it safe to put Sweet Scent back on, as there doesn't seem to be an argument against it.--[[User:Rahl|Rahl]] ([[User talk:Rahl|talk]]) 16:14, 4 August 2018 (UTC)
:::Hello again. It's been a couple weeks and I was wondering what the status of Sweet Scent is. Thanks.--[[User:Rahl|Rahl]] ([[User talk:Rahl|talk]]) 13:59, 30 August 2018 (UTC)

== Random question ==

When I type just about anything in the search bar, the autocomplete suggestions always appear in the same order. For example, typing only "user:" always displays "User:Tiddlywinks", "User:Force Fire", "User:Raltseye", "User:SnorlaxMonster", etc. in that order. Do you have any idea what determines that order? [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 04:12, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
:Pretty sure the ordering is just random.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 04:18, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
::If it was completely random, would it still put more active users closer to the top? [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 04:35, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
:::It's probably fixed, random but fixed. The listing probably wouldn't change regardless of how active a user is.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 04:51, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
::::It could be fixed by the most visisted user pages. --[[User:Raltseye|Raltseye]] [[User talk:Raltseye|prata med mej]] 11:00, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

== Reason ==

Could you give a summary rather than only reverting a contribution without reason, that's irritating. {{unsigned|KyleRGiggs}}

:He's reverting you because this is the mandatory writing style for a recurring character in the anime and you're pointlessly changing it at [[Professor Burnet]]. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 04:45, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
::Exactly. Your reasoning for removing it didn't even make sense, and if you actually read other anime character articles, other recurring characters also use the term "reappears".--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 04:51, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
:::So DID both of you read the article CAREFULLY why "Since their marriage, Burnet has moved in with Kukui and Ash and '''has made regular appearances''' in the Sun & Moon series ever since." is present in the sentence? So why don't Professor Kukui being "reappear" for every episode? Regular appearancing should not be recurring? I don't get the sense. {{unsigned|KyleRGiggs}}
::::Just because someone makes regular appearances, doesn't mean we can't use the word "reappear". Besides, the two don't appear that regularly, especially for Burnet who only appeared once in between SM071-80 (not counting the PokeProblem segment) and Kukui only physically appears four times in that 10 episode span. And sign your comments.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 05:18, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
:::::I did read that sentence. To be honest, that sentence needs to be reworded. As Force Fire said, it's not as regular as that sentence implies. If she did appear "regularly", then she'd actually be a main character, and then the need to list every episode she appears in is diminished. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 05:46, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

== Random stuff ==

Since I last contacted you, I've come up with a few new things to ask every now and then, but they keep slipping my mind when I don't talk about them. Hence why I've decided to dedicate this section of the talk page for subjects that I come up with and need admin help for, which means that I may sometimes come back here when I come up with something new. But anyway, let's get started with the most recent subject I've come up with: the [[Looker]] Bureau post-game story from {{pkmn|X and Y}}. Since the [[Delta Episode]] and [[Episode RR]] have their own pages, shouldn't the Looker Bureau storyline also get its own article? I think it would deserve it. 
Oh, and speaking of new articles: has my suggestion of splitting the Kantonian Gym and Tide Song Hotel into their own location articles been moving forward? Has it received enough approval to actually be done some day? --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 10:17, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
:I did bring them (Kantonian Gym and Tide Song Hotel) up with the other staff members, didn't really come to a solid conclusion. For me, they both appear to have very little information text wise (from what is already there), and what we don't want are articles that are just one paragraph and a whole bunch of templates. I think it'd be good to create them in your userspace to see how the page will look.
:The Looker saga could be made into it's own page. Make on in your userpage so the staff can decide if it's needed.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 05:22, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
::I've created the page for the Kantonian Gym [[User:FinnishPokéFan92/Kantonian Gym|here]], and I also intend to start making the Tide Song Hotel and Looker Bureau pages as soon as I find the time for it. In the meantime, though, there's a couple of other things I would like to bring up.
::Firstly, [[Talk:Serena (game)#Father? (revived)|this talk]] regarding the X and Y rival's father. Evidence heavily suggests that Calem/Serena's father is a Veteran Trainer who can be found in [[Snowbelle City]], but for the last bit of confirmation, we need someone who can read Japanese. Could you ask someone to help with that?
::And secondly... Secondly... Well, this is ''exactly'' why I should come here to vent ideas out of my head more often. I've forgotten my second point. Embarrassing, I know, but I'll come back to it once I remember it.
::--[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 07:22, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
::Ah, I remember now! Some time ago, I created a category for {{cat|Legendary and Mythical Pokémon locations}}, my intention being to have it attached to the {{template|legendarylocations}} template. However, said template is protected, so I'd need help from a user like you to put it there. Could you do it? --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 08:59, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
:::I've brought the Kantonian Gym page to the others. There was talks of the Serena's father issue a while back, I think one of the staff members found in game text supporting it, though I asked again to be sure. Navigation templates only need the Navigation template category, the category you provided would go on the actual location pages.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 09:59, 11 August 2018 (UTC)
::::Thanks, looking forward to the results.
::::Yes, it's been proven that the gender pronoun used by the supposed father changes depending on the player character's gender, but we now also have links to two Japanese videos to see if this occurs in the Japanese version too, which could count as the final piece of evidence, and is why we need someone who can understand Japanese to confirm it.
::::I mean like this: <nowiki><includeonly>[[Category:Legendary and Mythical Pokémon locations]]</includeonly></nowiki> When a category is attached to a template like this, it will only apply to the pages where said template is used at, not the template itself. That's what I would like you to do, if possible.
::::--[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 10:56, 11 August 2018 (UTC)
:::::I've now finished the Tide Song Hotel page as well. You can find it [[User:FinnishPokéFan92/Tide Song Hotel|here]]. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 18:20, 11 August 2018 (UTC)
::::::Excuse the delay. The Looker bureau post game story can be made, with the title "Looker events" as that is what it's called in-game, according to another staff member. Haven't gotten much feedback regarding the other stuff that you brought up. I'll keep you updated regarding those.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 07:14, 15 August 2018 (UTC)
:::::::Thanks for the update. Will do. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 08:45, 15 August 2018 (UTC)
::::::::I haven't started working on the Looker evernts yet, but I haven't forgotten about them. In the meantime, though, there's an issue that has been bugging me for years now, which nobody has appparently done anything to fix yet. I'm talking about Generation VI models. Not only are we still missing most VS models from at least one set of the Generation VI core series games, we are also still missing a couple VS models: [[Archie]] and [[Zinnia]] are missing their VS models altogether (they've been using temporary ones for years now), and {{an|Brendan}} and {{an|May}} are missing their VS models with a [[Key Stone|Mega Bracelet]]. I've also wondered if the difference between the {{tc|Team Flare Grunt}}s who are striking a pose and those who aren't would warrant alternate VS models for them, but that's a lesser priority in my books.
::::::::And, as for a more recent case of the same issue, we're still missing several US/UM VS models as well, including the {{tc|Master & Apprentice}} and {{tc|Sparring Partners}} VS models and [[Gladion]]'s VS model with a Z-Power Ring. Could you bring this up with people who could possibly fix these issues? I've tried to do it myself a couple times over the years, but it has never lead to anything. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 09:02, 20 August 2018 (UTC)
::::::::Oh, almost forgot! [[Giovanni]]'s first VS model is a bit dark, and [[Professor Kukui]] is also missing his model with the Z-Power Ring. PS. Has the Serena/Calem father topic been solved? Can it be considered confirmed? --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 11:18, 20 August 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::The VS sprites are something that is still ongoing, it just gets lower and lower on the priority list whenever something new comes around. It's something that will be done, "when" I can't really say for sure. Users are free to upload the models themselves, granted they get it from somewhere that isn't a fan site.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 11:54, 24 August 2018 (UTC)
::::::::::Figures. I'm just a guy who hates incompleteness, so these lingering cases of incompleteness tend to bug me a lot. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 12:17, 24 August 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::::For a while now already, I've been planning a massive edit project, where I go over '''every single''' page with a Stadium and Stadium 2 party template, and change the number of Poké Balls in the template(s) to 3 instead of 6 (since only three of the six Pokémon are always used per battle), as well as remove the word "Pokémon" from the game name, as it isn't that way in any other game party templates either. But that's why I've come here for you this time: in preparation for this project, could you edit {{template|Party/Single}} to include codes for Stadium and Stadium 2 in the game name section? And while we're on the topic of this template, do the Battle Chatelaines alone warrant a combined code for X, Y, OR, and AS, and the few version-exclusive Battle Tree Trainers from Generation VII codes for S/US and M/UM, respectively? PS. I hope you understood that last part. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 17:51, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::::Thanks. I saw you just doing this, and I'm honestly really grateful for it, but in case you didn't know, when we refer to "Pokémon Stadium", the link should go to "[[Pokémon Stadium (English)]]", instead of just "[[Pokémon Stadium]]". --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 07:37, 5 September 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::::Never mind. You noticed that yourself. Sorry. XP --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 07:38, 5 September 2018 (UTC)

{{indent}}Added Stadium/2 to the template. As for changing the Poké Ball number, I'm iffy about it. I get what you're saying, but they still have six possible Pokémon. As for the last request, I assume you mean for the party template?, if so, they're already coded in.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 07:40, 5 September 2018 (UTC)
:Yeah. Personally, I'm inclined to keep the six Poké Balls too, but, as you can see {{DL|Professor Kukui|Battle Royal Dome|here}}, for example, some user(s) apparently think that the number of shown Poké Balls should be equal to the maximum number of Pokémon that can be used from said selection of Pokémon at a time. Hence why most [[Pokémon World Tournament|PWT]] teams have six Balls, since all six Pokémon are used if the [[Triple Battle]] format is in used. Then there's also the case where the pool of possible Pokémon is greater than six, but I can understand that one.
:As for the codes, I meant as in a code of "XYORAS" turning out as "X, Y, Omega Ruby, and Alpha Sapphire", and codes "SUS" and "MUM" turning out as "Sun and Ultra Sun" and "Moon and Ultra Moon", respectively. However, as I said, the former would only apply to the four {{tc|Battle Chatelaine}}s, while the latter ones would only apply for the few [[Battle Tree]] Special Trainers who are version-exclusive, so I wondered if that's a good enough reason for those codes to be created. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 09:26, 5 September 2018 (UTC)
::For the Kukui article, I think the line "Master Rank challenge of the Battle Royal, using three of the following Pokémon" will suffice. If they're confused, then they are just flat out not reading the article. As for the stadium articles, I think a similar line could work.
::Ah I see, I've added the code for those.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 09:45, 5 September 2018 (UTC)
:::Thanks a ton! Now there's nothing stopping me from starting my grand edit project! And it's going to be even easier I expected, thanks to you!
:::Nice work... Except that you made a small typo. You accidentally wrote "SUM" instead of "MUM" for "Moon and Ultra Moon". --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 11:18, 5 September 2018 (UTC)
::::Another small typo found. The link for Stadium 2 leads just to "Pokémon Stadium". You forgot the "2" from the end. Whoops...
::::Also, another unrelated thing: in Pokémon Colosseum, the player character starts the game off with a number of healing items in their Bag. Does this qualify as a method of acquiring these items for their respective articles? --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 16:52, 5 September 2018 (UTC)
:::::Fixed. As for the items, I'd say those count.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 07:02, 6 September 2018 (UTC)
::::::I think we need a link template to make the Alola game links easier to create, as writing "<nowiki>[[Pokémon Sun and Moon|Pokémon Sun, Moon]], [[Pokémon Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon|Ultra Sun, and Ultra Moon]]</nowiki>" for a link version of "Pokémon Sun, Moon, Ultra Sun, and Ultra Moon" again and again can get tiresome, plus it eats up a lot of unnecessary space. I'd do it myself, but I'm not sure how, so I've come to ask for your help again. Can you do it, or at least ask someone else to do it? --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 09:30, 17 September 2018 (UTC)
:::::::Took a while to remember what the template was, but [[Template:Game4]] exists, though I edited it to add USUM. Typing the code <nowiki>{{game4|Sun|Moon|Sun|Moon}}</nowiki> should give you this: {{game4|Sun|Moon|Sun|Moon}}.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 11:54, 19 September 2018 (UTC)
::::::::Thank you! Also, another issue regarding link templates: when adding a link to a Pokémon's alternate form, it's usually written as <nowiki>{{DL|List of Pokémon with form differences|<Pokémon>|<Form name>}}</nowiki>, which, like the previous thing you fixed, is a bit lengthy, especially if done repeatedly. So I've been thinking about the creation of a link template to fix the issue, going something like this: <nowiki>{{form|<Pokémon>|<Form name>}}</nowiki>, which would lead to the correct section of [[List of Pokémon with form differences]], based on the contents of the second slot (the one with <Pokémon> in my example here). Do you think this could/should be made? --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 13:58, 19 September 2018 (UTC)
::::::::Also, I just noticed: your edit on {{template|game4}} was a bit flawed. The "Sun and Moon" part of the link includes the word "Versions", even though it's not supposed to. I saw you fixed this issue regarding the "Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon" part of the link, but it seems you still missed something. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 06:04, 21 September 2018 (UTC)
::::::::Did you miss my above messages? Or have you just been too busy to answer yet? --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 08:55, 26 September 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::I purposely left the "versions" in the first link as I wasn't confident whether adding a switch would mess the template up and mess up other pages that are using the template, so I didn't risk it. I'll bring up to idea for a "form template" to the other staff members, though I think it's a fine idea.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 12:45, 26 September 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::::1) Oh. I see. Well, I've already used the template on a couple pages, so now what? 2) Thank you. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 13:32, 26 September 2018 (UTC)
::::::::::::Just leave the ones you've added. I'll tweak the template in a userspace at some point. As for the form template, [[User:Abcboy/Form|Abcboy]] has already made a template in his userpage, that'll be under consideration.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 13:03, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
{{indent}}Thank you. Also, whoa. It appears that this template idea wasn't as new as I thought. Let's hope it'll finally get mainspaced some day. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 14:04, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
:Thanks for helping me out with {{user|EternalDragonX}}. He also left a reply to your response already, just in case you haven't noticed yet. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 17:45, 2 October 2018 (UTC)
::He still doesn't believe either of us. Could you do something about it? And, if possible, could you continue the talk with him on his page instead of mine? PS. His refusal to use big capital letters in talk pages irks me. I know there's technically nothing wrong with it, but if you see fit to notify him about it too, then please do. If you don't, I won't hold it against you. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 16:18, 3 October 2018 (UTC)
:::A few days ago, he started arguing with me about [[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92#viridian gym|another subject (s)]]. Please help me. I'm seriously growing tired of this. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 18:39, 6 October 2018 (UTC)
::::I'll leave a message on their talk page.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 03:01, 7 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::Thank you. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 05:55, 7 October 2018 (UTC)

== Undoing changes ==

Please, don't revert changes as I add information that a [[Focus Sash]] can be stolen from [[Iris]]' {{p|Haxorus}} during all the battles. I don't want to cause an edit war, but I placed the information in the correct row ({{gameabbrev5|B2W2}}). [[User:TheICTLiker4|TheICTLiker4]] ([[User talk:TheICTLiker4|talk]]) 06:56, 12 August 2018 (UTC)
:And as Finnish said, you don't permanently keep the item. It doesn't count.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 07:14, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

== Status ==

What does "status" mean when used to describe Bulbapedia users? Like, how do we know the difference between "hiatus" and "inactive"? How long of a break counts as a hiatus? What does "X" mean? [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 01:31, 24 August 2018 (UTC)
:If someone is on "hiatus", that means they are away for some time but will return eventually, how long the hiatus is differs between staff members. "Inactive" is detailed {{bp|Inactive Staff|here}}. X denotes someone of high authority, they may not be very active but they are still very important staff members.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 11:54, 24 August 2018 (UTC)
::If someone says he/she/it is on hiatus and doesn't come back, then how long does it usually take for other people to change that person's status to "inactive"? [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 18:18, 24 August 2018 (UTC)
:::That decision is up to the Editor in Chief.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 04:34, 25 August 2018 (UTC)
::::Okay thanks. [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 00:07, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

== Possible inappropriate name ==

Someone under {{user|RAEVEisdumb}} was created after someone called {{user|RAEVE}} was just created. Should it be flagged? '''Ice''' [[User talk:The IceCream|Cream]] 19:43, 24 August 2018 (UTC)
:I've blocked the former but left the latter unblocked. I ''could'' block them both since they both share the same IP, but since RAEVE hasn't done anything yet, I'll leave them unblocked unless they become a problem.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 04:34, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

== PardescanSlowbro again ==

I have tried to offer [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3APardescanSlowbro&type=revision&diff=2840364&oldid=2826236 constructive criticism] on PardescanSlowbro's spelling of "compliment" in [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Tyson_%28Hoenn%29&type=revision&diff=2840264&oldid=2834631 this edit], but once again, he responded with paranoia, a refusal to cooperate, and accusations of edit-stalking ([https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3APardescanSlowbro&type=revision&diff=2840597&oldid=2840364] [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3APardescanSlowbro&type=revision&diff=2840645&oldid=2840640] [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3APardescanSlowbro&type=revision&diff=2840648&oldid=2840647] [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3APardescanSlowbro&type=revision&diff=2840661&oldid=2840649]). In the last diff, he even had the gall to tell me I shouldn't be contacting anyone if that's how I'm going to talk to people. This is in spite of me [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3APardescanSlowbro&type=revision&diff=2840647&oldid=2840645 admitting that my original message unintentionally did not come across as constructive and apologizing for that]. I cannot even talk about the most basic constructive criticism with this guy, and it is so frustrating. I was actually hoping I could have a more in-depth discussion about his writing style in regards to his recent edits, but given that he's always reacting like this in some form or fashion, I cannot muster the courage to talk to him, no matter what the subject is. I can't even properly talk to him about the minor stuff (silly, I know, but I can't even talk to him about the major stuff in the first place). I talk to other users the same way I'm talking to him, yet he's always the one who responds with hostility and vitriol. I'm really not trying to be malicious towards him or anything like that. Can you please comment on this? [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 08:59, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

== Grammarfreak at it again ==
I know, you're very busy. But it seems that Grammarfreak are trying everything to post his/her claim are right. While everyone is wrong. Especially, when he illegally created it voice actress article without admin permission. Especially for trying to make it sounds he taken command of everything. If you can, could you please ban him/her. I tired of his aggression and persistent changing the sentences to be great. Thank you! [[User:Singaporean|Singaporean]] ([[User talk:Singaporean|talk]]) 02:57, 5 September 2018 (UTC)

:[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3ASingaporean&type=revision&diff=2843736&oldid=2839035 I already told you], I didn't know you already had a userspace article for [[Sumire Morohoshi]] in the works, and I'm sorry about that! That aside, how is that "illegal"? I admitted it was a mistake caused by a lazy eye. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 03:18, 5 September 2018 (UTC)
:: You know, you create with one article after another without admin permission is already officially illegal. That is also included disrespectful to me after all the hard work, I have done and learns to make a better article. But it seems that, you had a history of pattern aggressive toward everybody. I wasn't surprised, your primary target now is me. It wasn't take every long in a next few day. You will ditch my all my userspace edited and try to create one to waste more page to fill in the empty to draw attention to everyone. Remind you again, this is not your playground of editing. [[User:Singaporean|Singaporean]] ([[User talk:Singaporean|talk]]) 03:28, 5 September 2018 (UTC)
:::A while back, I [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/User_talk:Tiddlywinks#Creating_Japanese_voice_actor_articles asked] {{U|Tiddlywinks}} about the process of creating VA articles, and they directed me to [[Bulbapedia:Project VA]] without mentioning anything else. The main project page ''never'', ''EVER'' said anything about having to consult with the admins first before the creation of an individual article, and trust me, I read through that thing thoroughly. I've been at this since last month, and no one has given me any warnings or blocked me for creating so many VA articles during that time. This is in comparison to [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/User_talk:GrammarFreak01/Archive_1#Creating_pages the warning I got] from Tiddlywinks hours after I created the [[Ash's Pikachu (M20)]] article (which was what motivated me to ask Tiddlywinks about the VA articles in the first place). Because of all that, I took it that my actions were already cleared by Tiddlywinks and I didn't even have to worry about asking the admins any further.

:::If it was supposed to be common sense for me to just alert the admins about the creation of any kind of article beforehand, then I do apologize for that. I was simply following everything that was laid out for me at [[Bulbapedia:Project VA]], with the misconception that Tiddlywinks was alright with everything simply because I contacted him only once before my article creation spree. And ''trust me'', I am now reviewing all of the other userspace articles you've got so I will know which VAs you are already working on. I'm so sorry if you felt cheated and that your hard work on the Morohoshi userspace article was wasted because of me. I swear, I was not aware of that userspace article, and that is not going to happen again, I promise. Especially now that you've got your own eye on me and my conduct. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 03:48, 5 September 2018 (UTC)
::::Regardless of your apologize to me or not. The action will be leave to [[User:Force Fire|Force Fire]] to dealt with. Even though of the risk for me being banned one more time again. I also satisfied. [[User:Singaporean|Singaporean]] ([[User talk:Singaporean|talk]]) 03:57, 5 September 2018 (UTC)
:::::I'm well aware that it's all up to Force Fire, given the severity of your complaints against me. I'm just trying to explain what you would call my more egregious actions. I at least have that right to do so, don't I? [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 03:59, 5 September 2018 (UTC)

GrammarFreak already clarified that he didn't see your userpage, Singaporean. No need to overreact the way you did. He apologized, move on. Anyone can create a VA article, granted that it fits the notability criteria. Users can make it on the mainspace, '''only if''' they are capable of making it up to Bulbapedia standards upon making the article (to which I feel GrammarFreak did). And don't take that as an invitation to create VA article on the mainspace, Singaporean.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 07:18, 5 September 2018 (UTC)
:If you say so, then I will go ahead and create all my remaining work directly without the need of my userspace. Thanks. [[User:Singaporean|Singaporean]] ([[User talk:Singaporean|talk]]) 12:30, 5 September 2018 (UTC)
::No. I '''did not''' say you can make them in the mainspace. I literally said it in my response. The ones you made on your userspace still needs to be approved. And that is '''NOT''' how you move userpages to the mainspace.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 12:59, 5 September 2018 (UTC)
:::My apologized for my rush work. I didn't know about it. It is already almost a year and I didn't heard anything about you and the other approved my work to main article is just really frustrating. I do hope, you can give me an answer after a few days later. Thank you! [[User:Singaporean|Singaporean]] ([[User talk:Singaporean|talk]]) 13:05, 5 September 2018 (UTC)

== A strange user talk page ==

Hello and sorry if I'm bothering you, but I started to wonder, if such content as [[User talk:CarterLumpkins|this]] is OK to have on one's user talk page. This doesn't seem to aggressively promote some service, thought it does have a weblink. However, the topic is so NOT Pokémon... is this allowed? Is this evidence of a spammer? The user page was created three minutes before the talk page. Thank you! [[User:Kikugi|Kikugi]] ([[User talk:Kikugi|talk]]) 12:33, 6 September 2018 (UTC)
:Dealt with. Those are usually spambots.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 12:55, 6 September 2018 (UTC)

== Search bar problems ==

I just started having a problem with the search bar at the left of my screen. Every time I type something in, it won't show me a list of options, and every time I try to look up a list of pages containing a certain word(s), it won't show the lists. Instead, there's a message that reads, "An error has occurred while searching: We could not complete your search due to a temporary problem. Please try again later." I definitely know I'm not misspelling anything. What's going on with that? [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 04:15, 9 September 2018 (UTC)
:Staff are aware of the issue and will try to get to the bottom of it asap.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 05:01, 9 September 2018 (UTC)
::Okay. That's good to know. Thanks for the heads-up. :) [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 05:06, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

== Internal error ==

Occasionally, since about last week, I've been getting these "Internal error" messages every time I try to submit an edit. I manage to get through it, but the frequency of these messages is starting to increase and I don't know what's going on. This is an example of the "Internal error" message I tend to get.

[8e5e0cf8d713375f0b2bb8b3] 2018-09-17 04:55:29: Fatal exception of type "Error"

Would you mind getting to the bottom of this? Thank you. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 04:57, 17 September 2018 (UTC)

:I'm still getting these messages with intensifying frequency. Here's the latest one:

[d52bf67181c53700b65c1f44] 2018-09-18 04:52:01: Fatal exception of type "Error"

:[[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 04:53, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
::Staff are aware of the issues and are looking into it.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 05:58, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
:::Thank you. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 19:19, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

::::I'm not sure what's being done to rectify this problem, nor do I presume to know, but for the record, I'm still having these problems. Here's the latest one I got:

[39026dee922ac834907c8f6e] 2018-09-20 07:23:46: Fatal exception of type "Error"

::::[[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 07:25, 20 September 2018 (UTC)

:::::My apologies, but this problem is still happening for me. Is the staff still investigating the issue? Or did they think they found a solution and implemented it already? Not that I doubt anyone's effectiveness in this matter. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 23:43, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
::::::Still haven't heard back on whether the problem was fixed or not, but I'll ping the higher ups about the issue.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 04:31, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::::Okay, thanks. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 04:45, 13 October 2018 (UTC)

== Transfer-only moves and ability changes ==

Can we add a section to every Pokemon page that lists all the moves the Pokemon can know only if it originated in an earlier generation (move tutors, old TMs, etc.)? Cross-checking multiple pages for this information is annoying. Second, can we change the Pokemon infobox template to make pages like {{p|Pelipper}} clear that Pelipper can't have drizzle in Generations 3-6? [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 18:06, 24 September 2018 (UTC)

== Zlblosser18 ==

A little heads-up, it looks like in spite of [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AZlblosser18&type=revision&diff=2853997&oldid=2853990 your advice], Zlblosser18 is still [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Charmander_%28Pok%C3%A9mon%29&type=revision&diff=2855104&oldid=2855092 removing templates]. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 20:22, 30 September 2018 (UTC)

:It also seems like they're disregarding [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Zlblosser18&diff=prev&oldid=2855095 my advice] that titles like [[Pokémon Origins]] and [[Pokémon Generations]] are not traditionally italicized here. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 20:25, 30 September 2018 (UTC)
::Looks like TiddlyWinks has given them a final warning. --[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 04:33, 1 October 2018 (UTC)
:::Seems like it. I'll withdraw the complaint, then. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 05:02, 1 October 2018 (UTC)

== floor order cont ==

im confused, youre saying the ordering will be RBY>GSC>FRLG>HGSS regardless of floor order? so do you mean list all rby items before gsc or put them together if there are two items on the same floor? yes, i am using common sense by not putting an item deep in the dungeon first, but what if said deep item were to be on one of the earlier floors if not the earliest? then floor order dictates i would have to list said item before many of the other items i pass by before i even get to it. thats why floor order is bad. i know were not a walkthrough, but we have to list the items in one way or another, and like you said, it should make sense atleast right? I understand that it is not a "high" priority. but if i can list in an order that makes sense, why not? is floor order really a higher priority? again im trying to say that floor order is bad. --[[User:EternalDragonX|EternalDragonX]] ([[User talk:EternalDragonX|talk]]) 12:58, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
:Yes, the game order will still be the same regardless of the template going by floor order. If an items exist in more than one set of games and is in the same location, the games get put together.
:Just so we're on the same page here, when you say "deep" you mean tucked in the furthest part of the first floor, right? Because there's no way the place I just described could be the first thing you come across. If you mean if the player traverses from the opposite end (say Victory Road, Pokemon League entrance to Route 22 entrance), then that's not really important. The location ordering should be from the player's first run through of the area (so Route 22 to Pokemon League).
:Sorting by floor order helps users see what items are available at a certain floor in one grouping. It'd actually be ''more'' confusing if the listing were to alternate between "Floor 1" and "Floor 2", especially if there's suddenly a "Basement floor" in between them.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 14:43, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
::may i suggest instead of RBY>GSC>FRLG>HGSS, that it be RBY>FRLG>GSC>HGSS? because rby frlg are basically the same games and a lot of the time they will have items that are common to all of them, but also a lot of the time frlg will have some new items, and shoving gsc items in between would not only look weird, but confusing.
::yes i mean for example tucked away in a place on the first floor that also serves as the back exit. therefore in a regular playthrough, most players would pick up said item last, since you run by every other item before it. victory road is a perfect example of what im talking about. of course i wouldnt list the items as if they were going from indigo plateau to route 22. that makes no sense. if you look at the list: https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Victory_Road_(Kanto)#Items i list guard spec ultra ball and full restore on floor 2 after overheat on floor 3. why? because those 3 items are grouped in an area in floor 2 that can only be accessible after passing through the entirety of floor 3; the area in this case being the exit. so in my head, this ordering makes perfect sense. blindly following floor order would mean i would list these items before the max revive, which again i dont think makes much sense since we talked about how they literally cant be come acrossed before the floor 3 items. --[[User:EternalDragonX|EternalDragonX]] ([[User talk:EternalDragonX|talk]]) 18:11, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
:::Any unpredictable order is bad. A reasonable person would generally expect to see everything for a floor together. If I see several items that start with something like 1F, 2F, 1F, 3F, 5F (or whatever), it just looks messy to me. Nothing that extreme may occur in the games, but that's what your logic would demand. (And less extreme examples are still messy IMO.)
:::It's not exactly hard to look back to the "end" of a floor if there were items you just couldn't get to when you passed through the first part (if floors are grouped). But if floors aren't grouped, then if I see several items starting with "2F" and then that turns into "3F", I'm gonna think those were all the items on 2F in the list, and that can be very confusing. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 00:34, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
::::altho i still believe that 1F, 2F, 1F, 3F, 5F (or whatever) would be better if it made sense that you'd get the items that way, i have argued my point to the fullest and i can respect it if you disagree. however, still waiting on you force fire to answer my question about listing the items in region order rather than game order. aka kanto>johto>hoenn etc. over rby>gsc>frlg etc. --[[User:EternalDragonX|EternalDragonX]] ([[User talk:EternalDragonX|talk]]) 00:57, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::Ordering the games by RBY>FRLG>GSC>HGSS is fine, some (or a majority of) articles are like this.
:::::So we are talking about the same thing, that brings up the question of why you are concerned about having to place an item that is deep in a dungeon as the first item. As I said, the order should be listed on the players first run through of the area. You don't need to worry about those that'll traverse the opposite way.
:::::As for items that can only be accessed via another floor, group those under all the other Floor 2 items and say in the descriptor that it requires traversing through Floor 3. Putting those items below Floor 3 makes it a touch confusing, and also a bit walkthrough-ish. I guess it's just me being condescending, but players should be able figure that stuff (having to traverse through floor 3 to get to some floor 2 items) for themselves. And ass TiddlyWinks said, listing the items by floor looks much more cleaner and easier on the eyes.
:::::Also, I saw and checked that you changed the template to be one big listing rather than separate listings. Maybe that should've been discussed first before making the edit. --[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 04:47, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
::::::i am concerned about having to place an item that is deep as the first item because if for example it was one of, if not the only, items on the first accessible floor (say floor 1), but not accessible unless you traverse one of the other floors (say floor 2), then we gotta list it first even tho you probably get the other items on floor 2 before it. you already answered this in your 3rd paragraph. like i said to tiddlywinks if u guys feel like floor order is cleaner then fine. i also like your solution of putting in the descriptor that it requires traversing through floor 3. i think ill do that. --[[User:EternalDragonX|EternalDragonX]] ([[User talk:EternalDragonX|talk]]) 14:33, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
::::::about putting in the descriptor that obtaining an item requires traversing another floor.. would you just list that as a sentence at the end? or would you like put it in an asterisk at the end? --[[User:EternalDragonX|EternalDragonX]] ([[User talk:EternalDragonX|talk]]) 15:24, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::::Examples of these sorts of explanations/directions can be seen on pages like [[Frost Cavern]], [[Victory Road (Kalos)]], and [[Haina Desert]]. The descriptions should be easily readable, which tooltips are not (mobile users cannot read them at all AFAIK). The only reason to consider a tooltip would be if the detail is exceptionally long. (Because a very long description is, itself, also not the most readable thing.) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 01:24, 6 October 2018 (UTC)

== Satomi Kōrogi ==

I need help moving the [[Satomi Kōrogi]] article. The romanization seems to prefer using Satomi K'''oo'''rogi instead but I am unable to move the article because of a redirect interfering. Thank you. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 22:33, 6 October 2018 (UTC)
:Moved.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 03:01, 7 October 2018 (UTC)
::Thanks! :D [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 03:18, 7 October 2018 (UTC)

== Transfer-only moves and ability changes ==

Can we add a section to every Pokemon page that lists all the moves the Pokemon can know only if it originated in an earlier generation (move tutors, old TMs, etc.)? Cross-checking multiple pages for this information is annoying. Second, can we change the Pokemon infobox template to make pages like {{p|Pelipper}} clear that Pelipper can't have drizzle in Generations 3-6? [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 20:34, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
:I personally see no need in listing transferable moves, it's common sense. Of course a Pokémon that only knows X move in Gen III is going to know it if you transfer it to a Gen vII game. And it's really not much of a nuisance. Want a to know a Pokémon's moveset from a specific generation? go to the separate learnlists. Want a specific move? go to the specific move article. It's not ''that'' annoying.
:The infobox templates is currently in discussions of an update. The update will accommodate having more abilities listed. Have patience.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 07:05, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
::The whole purpose of learnset sections was to put every move that a Pokemon can know in one place, right? If the learnset sections are not doing that, what other purpose do they have? [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 19:47, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
:::It's to list moves a Pokémon can learn in the '''current''' generation. Transferring moves isn't exactly "learning a move by level up or breeding in Generation VII". If a Pokémon can only learn a move in a previous generation, go to that generation's learnset or the move's article. You're only clicking one link, not 500. It's not as mundane as you're making it out to be.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 04:29, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
::::It appears to me you're just saying how another question is easy to answer.
::::If you're seriously interested in this (not just stalling), let me suggest (with best intentions) to just try to answer "What moves can Pikachu '''''know''''' in a copy of, say, USUM?" by browsing Bulbapedia. I currently need more than 5 minutes, and I would consider this ''the'' central use case, and probably the most important question for competitive play. (It's not even easy to be confident the resulting list was exhaustive, so if you'd like, you may even post your list here, and let me see if I have any more.) [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 09:46, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::Saying "what can Pikachu learn in USUM" is literally the same as saying "what can Pikachu learn in Gen VII". Not Gen II. Not Gen IV. Saying a specific game means you're looking for a learnset from a specific generation. And it certainly does not take "more than 5 minutes" to find what you want. If you know what you're looking for, you have a Pokémon and move/generation in mind, it should only take you one minute top. A few clicks. You're not going to be scouring the entire site just to look for one move.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 11:43, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
::::::Neither of these question were asked, you just continue to answer them.
::::::Pikachu can ''know'' moves in USUM that it cannot ''learn'' in USUM, {{m|Mega Kick}}, for example. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 12:10, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::::It's called a learnlist for a reason, moves a Pokémon can learn in a game or generation. Of course it'll know a move from a previous generation if you transfer it to a current game, that does not need to be spelled out. No one is going to think that it won't know the move once they transfer the Pokémon. If users want to know what moves it can learn previously, they can browse the site.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 12:24, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
{{indent}}I'm not sure you understand me/us (or even try to, really). So, just for me to get this clear: Are you saying that, in your opinion, a) the question "What moves can <species> '''''know''''' in <game/generation>?" is not relevant, not worthwhile for Bulbapedia to easily provide an answer to, and that b) species pages should only provide moves a Pokémon can ''learn'' in the current generation? [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 14:14, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
:It's not hard to find what you're looking for, all you're doing is clicking on one link, totaling up to a few seconds. If you had to go through page after page, I can get why it'd be annoying or hard. But it's not.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 14:39, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
::I'm beginning to feel confident you're just stalling. I'm asking questions, I don't get answers.
::I'll just continue trying to keep this simple: Please list all moves Pikachu can know (in a USUM game). If it's not hard, I'd be glad to hear that it's easily possible using Bulbapedia (and preferably also how). Also (and in particular if you're unable or unwilling to list all of Pikachu's moves), please answer the two questions I just asked, a) and b). [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 15:02, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
:::Bulbapedia is not a strategy guide. Comp is not our focus.
:::You're highlighting comp as your reason for a promoting "moves a [species] can know" angle. But there's a bunch of comp stuff we're never going to do. We're not doing tier lists. We're not gonna tell you what "good" movesets are. Comp is no reason that we would "have" to accomodate anything.
:::That's not to say we're thoroughly hostile to a list of "legacy" moves.
:::But kind of like ForceFire has said, learnlists ARE for what a Pokemon can learn ''within'' a generation. It doesn't ''strictly'' make sense to include "legacy" moves; that's a concern that comes from a pretty specific focus like comp/challenges.
:::Yes, it would be somewhat easier if we had a list of legacy moves. But (to repeat myself) that's not necessarily our focus and you ''can'' figure the information out if you really need to.
:::(And to repeat myself once more, we're not hostile to a legacy move list. I just can't tell you if/when it might happen at the moment.) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 15:39, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
::::Thanks, Tiddlywinks.
::::I may be highlighting comp as the use case, and/but I know it's not our focus, I don't do so because I want to promote comp or anything. What I'm basically trying to do is rephrase Sumwun's question of what use case species (or learnset) pages currently try to serve; basically, why are they there, what are they supposed to easily provide an answer to:
::::"What move can <species> ''learn'' in <game/generation>?" may be equally sensible/important, but if the pages were focused (solely/primarily) on that, there would be no need to have an "By events" subsection (to a lesser extent, probably not even "By breeding"), and I think we can all agree that this information is valuable/sensible. What I'm thinking, and what I believe Sumwun thinks, is that a "By transfer from a prior generation" subsection is equally valuable/sensible.
::::Anyway, I know how that's a hassle to create or even design, and I'm not forcing it. But I'd like to stress that Sumwun's suggestion, in my opinion, is far from focusing on some weird, minor edge case, and is providing benefit. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 16:17, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::"Please list Pikachu's moves in USUM". Just go to its page. It's right ''there''. Want to know it's previous moves, go click on ''one'' link. Easy. And I'm answering sumwun's reasoning of "cross checking multiple pages is annoying", since he's the one that stated this conversation. All you're trying to do is justify sumwun's laziness.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 16:49, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
::::::Right now, I can't just click one link. Depending on how old a Pokemon is, I may need to click 1-6 links, load 1-6 learnset pages, and scan 2-25 sections. I would consider reducing this to 0 clicks and 1 section a big and worthwhile improvement. If this kind of laziness is unjustified, why do we have any learnset pages at all? We might as well be saying, "Want to know whether <Pokemon> can learn <move>? Load ''one'' move article and do ''one'' ctrl f. Easy."
::::::By the way, I would also like to know the answers to Nescientist's 2 questions. [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 22:05, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::::That's an exaggeration. If you know what you're looking for, it'll only taking you one-two clicks. You can't be searching for what move a Pokemon can learn previously without a set goal. You're playing Ultra Sun, but you want to know what it can learn in '''Diamond''' version. Diamond is the key word which equates to '''Gen IV'''. So you're already looking for its Gen IV learnset. Go to its page and click on Gen IV. Done.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 11:54, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
::::::::I have moved this discussion to [[Bulbapedia talk:Project Pokédex/Structure#Adding moves available only by transfer from an earlier generation|a more public place]], so others have an easier opportunity to chime in (and so that possibly, ForceFire doesn't receive as much email notifications about messages not directed to them directly).
::::::::ForceFire, the question "What moves can Pikachu know in USUM?" does not include "Diamond", and [[Pikachu (Pokémon)]] does not mention Mega Kick. I have detailed some more about what pages you'd need to traverse where I have continued the discussion I'm interested in.
::::::::Tiddlywinks, I have addressed some of your comments there, and would appreciate to get to know your opinions. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 12:18, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::Pikachu cannot '''learn''' Mega Kick in USUM (hence why it's not there at first glance), but it can know it if you transfer it from another game (which is common sense, of course it's going to know Mega Kick if you transfer it, the game isn't going to force it to forget the move).
:::::::::I just gave an example of how it only take one-two clicks to find what you're looking for. And you misinterpreted my example. If you're thinking of a certain game, you're automatically thinking of a certain generation. Go to the page and click on that specific generation.
:::::::::You can convince me to change my mind, but so far, "it's too hard, annoying, and boring to sift through a few pages" is not convincing enough to change my mind.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 12:28, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
::::::::::I don't understand. Please name the page(s) I need to answer "What moves can Pikachu '''''KNOW''''' in USUM?". [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 12:31, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
{{indent}}When you say "know" you're saying what it can learn via other means, and that includes transfer. The pages are the previous gen learnset pages, those are the moves Pikachu can know in USUM if you were to transfer it to USUM. Honestly...--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 12:35, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
:And those are six, plus Pikachus page, that's seven. (I even mentioned other difficulties at the other page.) It's not easy, it's hard. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 12:37, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
::If you have a game in mind, you have a generation in mind. You mentioned Mega Kick, Pikachu can only learn it in Gen I, III, and VI. So you're '''ONLY''' going to click '''one''' of those link, not the other links. Why would you. You already have the generation you need, you don't need to click on the others. If someone is unsure of the generation, they would look through the move article and ctrl+f "Pikachu".
::It's like if I wanted to watch a certain Johto league episode, but I don't know which number it is. I'm not going to watch the entirety of the XY series, I'm going to look through the Johto arc.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 12:44, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
:::You're exactly right there, but you're answering "Can Pikachu know Mega Kick in USUM?", not "What moves can Pikachu know in USUM?". I have no prior knowledge that Mega Kick is a possible solution. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 12:47, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
::::If you don't have a move in mind, then you have a previous generation in mind (to transfer from). If you have neither in mind, then you're not really looking for "what move can Pikachu know in USUM".--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 12:51, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::I'm positive that I have neither in mind, and that I am looking for "what moves can Pikachu know in USUM". [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 13:22, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
::::::Then you're not transferring then. The only other viable option of wanting to know what moves Pikachu can ''know'' is events, since everything else it learns, and events are already listed.
::::::If you're transferring Pokémon, you already have either a generation or move in mind. You're either thinking "I want to transfer Pikachu from <game>, but am not sure what it can learn in that game", which you then click on the '''appropriate''' generation moveset. Or you're thinking "I know Pikachu can learn <move> in a previous generation, but I don't know what game", which you then go to the move page and ctrl+f PIkachu.
::::::If you're not thinking of neither of those, then you aren't looking to transfer Pokémon.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 13:46, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::::I'm not thinking of a specific generation. I want to know the answer to "What moves can Pikachu know in USUM".
:::::::I can post some ''more special'' questions that require the same page traversion, such as "Can Pikachu know a sleep-inducing move?" (i.e., can I get a Pikachu on my copy of USUM with a sleep-inducing move, by whatever means?"), or "What is the most powerful move Magikarp may know in USUM?" (i.e., what's the maximum base power for any move a Magikarp may know in USUM, by whatever means).
:::::::These should be questions you may understand better. Please try to answer them. (If you do, you will find out that you won't find the answers at the species pages alone.) [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 15:50, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
::::::::If we are expected to be able to go to the move page and ctrl f the Pokemon's name for transfer-only moves, why are we not expected to do that for all moves? Why do we have full lists of level up moves and TM moves for each Pokemon?
::::::::By the way, another example of a question that would become a lot easier is, "What are all the ways I can get a Golem that knows a physical attack that is strong against psychic?" [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 22:20, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
{{indent}}Nescientist... what do you mean by "know"? Because a Pokémon can "know" a move via transfer or events. If you have neither a generation or move in mind, then you are '''''not''''' transferring. You are just blindly going through pages for no reason. If you're question ends so vaguely at "What moves can Pikachu know in USUM", then I don't know what you're looking for because you're not explaining the method. It's either "What can Pikachu know in USUM '''via transfer'''" or "What can Pikachu know in USUM '''via events'''". If you're talking about transfers, then I've already answered that many times.

Wanting to know what "sleep inducing moves" or "highest possible power" is competitive fluff. We are not a strategy guide. Casual gamers aren't going to care about that stuff. A casual gamer is going to want to know what moves their Pokemon can know in the game they have in their hands without outside influence (i.e. transfer or events). They're not going to care about sleep inducing move or highest based power. Not everyone is a competitive player.

Sumwun, don't be difficult. I don't even know what you're talking about. If you have a '''''move''''' in mind, go to the move page and ctrl+f. If you have a '''''game''''' in mind, go to the appropriate learnset page. You are '''''not''''' going to be looking through the learnsets to look for a single move. No one is going to do that. '''''No one''''' is going to blindly look through six learnsets looking for just one move, when they can just go to the move article itself. It's not that hard. I don't think you understand what the different kinds templates are for, and assuming they're all do the same thing.

You're Golem question, like Nescientist's "sleep inducing" question is competitive fluff. Again, we are not a strategy guide. And your question was '''even more vague'''. What is the method you seek? level up? breeding? TM? what? Be more specific in your searches. I like to think users are browsing the site fully aware of what they are looking for, not exact but an idea of what they are looking for. By the sounds of it, you're browsing the site without a single thing in mind. It stops at "What can Golem learn/know" rather than specifying "What can Golem learn/know via this specific method".--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 04:31, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
:I already rephrased what it means when I do not specify: it means "by whatever means", which means at all, by level-up or events or transfer or ''anything'' else. Moves a Pokémon may know in USUM. I'm explicitly ''not'' saying "by transfer only" (or anything else), I don't know why you insist I need to say that; because that is not what I'm asking.
:Anyway, you seem to have understood that my specific questions (and Sumwun's) are hard to answer, not easy. (Which is good, because that's why I mentioned them; my original question is ''more general''.)
:I would object to your take that it's only competitive fluff (and I did so [[Bulbapedia talk:Project Pokédex/Structure#Adding moves available only by transfer from an earlier generation|here]]). What do you think casual gamers would be looking for? If you're excluding what you call "competitive fluff", do you think they would need "By breeding"? (If so, why?) [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 16:33, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
::If nobody goes through learnset pages for moves, what do people use them for?
::Transfer-only moves are not competitive fluff or strategy guides. They are real Pokemon information that is true even when nobody is competitive battling and is not at all fan-made, but they simply happen to be more useful to competitive battlers. If this kind of information isn't allowed on Bulbapedia, why do we have a page called "World Championships", which is pretty much the definition of competitive battling? [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 03:10, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
:::Nescientist: This discussion is about transfer moves, so I assume you're talking about and looking for transfer moves. If you're looking for "anything at all", then you're not looking for anything specific so the '''bare minimum''' is already on the species article, you do not need to click on anything else. Everything it can know at '''bare minimum''' is ''right there''.
:::I didn't even answer both of your questions. I basically said that they are irrelevant because we are not a strategy guide. We're not going to say "This Pokemon can know this move which is X power" because that is competitive fluff and strategy guide-ish. No casual gamer is going to think that specifically.
:::I just said what casual gamers are looking for "'''things their Pokemon can learn normally within the game they have in their hands, without outside influence like transfers and events'''". This includes, level up moves, TMs, and such. Breeding is game mechanic and should be listed, I don't regard it as competitive fluff.
:::Sumwun: I don't think you understand how these things work. People look through the learnsets to look for moves '''''from a specific game or generation'''''. They are looking for the '''entire moveset''', not just one move. '''The entire moveset'''. If you're looking for one move, go to the move article. Looking for a moveset for a specific game, look through the learnset. It's not that hard to understand.
:::"World Championships" is an article detailing an event. It's not detailing strategies. It's not detailing what moves would be better. It's not detailing which Pokemon would be better. It's just detailing the event. Again, it's like you have no idea what that article is about.
:::It's real information, yes. But it can be seen by going through the moveset pages, because like I said, someone looking to transfer their Pokemon over so they can have a Pokemon with a move they can no longer learn, already have a game or move in mind. They are not blindly looking through pages.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 06:23, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
::::Just going to put my 2 cents in here (I'm not strongly for nor against):
::::1) Firstly, I think an important question that needs to be answered first is: Does a section on transfer-only moves have any role outside of the competitive field? All the examples raised at the moment have all been competitive play-oriented which I agree shouldn't be Bulbapedia's focus. I can think of one question where a transfer-only moves section ''could'' help with (e.g. "A Corsola I received from a trade has Whirlpool, Sucker Punch, and Secret Power. Is it hacked?" - although it wouldn't be too hard to find this information elsewhere + it is quite a specific question).
::::2) Another point that should be discussed is that some (albeit a small number of) moves may not be obvious to some users whether they can be transferred or not - e.g. inability to transfer most HMs, ability to transfer from VC, ability to transfer certain HMs (e.g. Defog, Whirlpool)
::::3) Lastly, I should note that a transfer-only moves section is likely to be longer than most will think (esp. as most of it is made up of moves which lost their TM status in a new gen) - though the length isn't as important --[[User:Wowy|'''Wowy''']][[User talk:Wowy|'''(토크)''']] 07:01, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::i don't think your example is all that great, because force fire is going to say you would just look up the move pages of each of those individual moves and ctrl f for corsola. an example i could think of which is pretty niche, but possible i think, is "im dead set on having a corsola for my playthrough of ultra sun. i want it to have the best movelist possible; im willing to transfer from prev gens to do so. is there a quick way i can get a list of all those moves without having to go through all the pages?" so imo this new section for moves learned from prev gens isnt useless; theres definitely a benefit. i think the question is, is it worth it.
:::::if you ARE going through the lists of previous gens, you already know what you ARENT looking for: every move learnable from the current gen. although i dont think going through lists for new moves requires THAT much work, i dont think the work is negligible either. --[[User:EternalDragonX|EternalDragonX]] ([[User talk:EternalDragonX|talk]]) 07:47, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
::::::Yes, I completely agree with you (maybe I should have made that more clear). I was just trying to give an example of a question which would be less competitive play-oriented (because the examples already given are not), and I as I said, the information could easily be found elsewhere --[[User:Wowy|'''Wowy''']][[User talk:Wowy|'''(토크)''']] 08:48, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::::I don't know how I can be any clearer, but the question is "What are moves Pikachu can know in USUM", i.e. by whatever means; it is not, I repeat, NOT something else. The species page alone does not answer it: you need that and ''all'' previous generation learnsets, at minimum. (And that's all I'm saying, basically. I believe you, ForceFire, finally understood that.)
:::::::Wowy, I believe it would only be beneficial if you presented your opinion at [[Bulbapedia talk:Project Pokédex/Structure#Adding moves available only by transfer from an earlier generation|that other talk page]] (maybe even answered my question there). Anyway, I'm just gonna address your points here:
:::::::1. I wouldn't know how any question about moves would not have at least some relevance to competitive play; battles and moves are a central concept of the Pokémon franchise, and anyone who plays Pokémon should have some interest in competitive play. It's a different thing to talk about serious competitive battlers (like, those who maintain tier lists and whatnot), though; and I think they wouldn't really care what the answer to my two questions are (but I could be mistaken, because again, I'm not a competitive player myself). The Swinub I mentioned at that other page was purely non-competitive in that sense, too; I used it for a playthrough. As an aside, I guess the section I propose wouldn't necessarily answer your type of "legal" question; for example, a section would include both {{m|Pay Day}} and {{m|Mimic}} for Pikachu, but a Pikachu that knows both moves simultaneously would still be illegal (I think that's similar to how the current "By breeding" section cannot answer whether two Egg Moves at the same time are legal.)
:::::::2. I already said that at that other page when I explained that it is even harder to find out than I initially thought. (A "By transfer" section will ''not'' necessarily include all moves a Pokémon may have known at some earlier game (Pikachu ''can'' know {{m|Petal Dance}}, for example, but ''not'' in USUM by any means such as transfer); therefore, I also don't think Tiddlywinks' choice of the word "legacy moves" was exact for my proposal.)
:::::::3. I'm not sure it will be that long, but as you said, it shouldn't really matter.
:::::::Sumwun: I ''do'' understand what you're saying (and I agree), but you seem to derail the discussion with some of your more provocative questions (ForceFire never said Bulbapedia shouldn't cover anything that has anything to do with competitive play, for example). I hope that's not your intention, let's try to keep it simple. :)
:::::::ForceFire, moves listed under "By breeding" are not covered by the text you bolded (and by the way, in my opinion, those are about as much "competitive fluff" as "By transfer" is), "By events" even less. I think you didn't answer whether you think casual gamers would need "By breeding"!? (Or did you? I'm still - seriously - trying to get to the bottom of what you think move sections should cover and why.) [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 16:57, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
::::::::You didn't even read what I wrote, because I already answered that in my previous response. And I know it's an outright lie when you say you don't have a game or generation in mind, because the question is "What can Pikachu know in '''USUM'''". You've singled out '''USUM'''. That is that game you have in mind. And since you're not looking for anything specific, just the bare minimum (level up, TMS) and that's already on the article. All moves that Pikachu can know through '''normal gameplay (i.e. not anything specific, by any means)''' in '''USUM''' are already on the Pikachu page. The species page already has the most current (i.e. '''USUM''' or '''Gen VII''') moveset. Why are you even looking through the previous generation movesets if you're only looking for moves it can know in'''USUM'''? It's already on the species page, you don't need to click on anything else.
::::::::Breeding is a game mechanic. It's as important as TMs and level up moves. The move sections should cover all moves a Pokémon can learn '''through normal gameplay''' in the most '''recent game or generation'''. Transferring isn't '''learning through normal gameplay". Sure, neither are events, but I can look past that because those are generally one time things and should be noted.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 17:39, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::Nescientist didn't ask for moves that could be known "through normal gameplay". He/she/it asked for moves that could be known "by whatever means", which includes transfer as well as normal gameplay. Is this not a valid question to ask? [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 18:14, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
::::::::::Sigh.. Going through it step by step:
::::::::::# I did read your (whole) message.
::::::::::# I did not lie.
::::::::::# I am not looking for a bare minimum. (My question was on "moves Pikachu can know in USUM [by whatever means]".)
::::::::::# What Sumwun said (and everyone, including Sumwun, should be able to see how it is a ''valid'' question to ask).
::::::::::# I am looking through previous movesets because not all moves Pikachu can know in USUM are at [[Pikachu (Pokémon)]]; Mega Kick, for example, isn't. (We've been there before, I mentioned that way up above, even rephrased it repeatedly.)
::::::::::# Yes, I do need to click on something else to check, i.e. all previous movesets (at minimum).
::::::::::# Transfer is a game mechanic.
::::::::::# In my opinion, breeding is not quite as important as TMs and level-up moves, if only because I cannot—by no means—teach (an individual) Pokémon I already own its species' Egg Moves. (It's still important, though.)
::::::::::# Finally, a "definition" of what you think move sections should cover: moves Pokémon may ''learn'' through normal gameplay within the generation, plus event moves. I'll just mention that they do already cover more than that, for example how {{p|Cubchoo}} may learn Avalanche in USUM.
::::::::::Beyond that, of course, I can't be of any help to you when you claim that I didn't read your message and outright lied. And, up to this point, I was trying hard. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 20:02, 17 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::::I think the problem with the "outright lie" is that transferring a Pokemon requires 2 games. Nescientist knew that the END game would be US or UM. When Nescientist said he didn't have a game "in mind", he/she/it was referring to the START game, and his/her/its willingness to transfer a Pokemon FROM any game TO US or UM. Nescientist, is this right? [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 20:52, 17 October 2018 (UTC)
::::::::::::Yes, in your words/example, the end game would be USUM, but the start game could be anything (including USUM itself, i.e. no transfer at all). [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 16:42, 18 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::::::Should we bring this discussion to another administrator's talk page? [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 17:22, 25 October 2018 (UTC)

== Need your help ==

Hi there! Can you please help me with [[User talk:Mikuri#Who's stalking whose edits?|this discussion]]? I am tired of explaining to them that their obsession with having the current revision of a page is more of a hindrance than a help. Aside from the examples I offered in my talk page, you can check GrammarFreak01's latest edits to [[Marian]]'s page. That sentence they edited was perfectly fine as it was, but they changed it for no reason other than being the last person to have edited the page.

In doing so, they added misleading information because they clearly have no knowledge on the matter, first by saying that Jessie was disguised as Jessedia "at the time", creating a false impression that she disguised as Jessedia on one occasion when in fact this is a recurring disguise Jessie has changed into at least three times, and then by saying she was "briefly disguised". Assuming you don't know, Jessie has appeared as Jessedia for the duration of the entire Kanto Grand Festival and the Wallace Cup's Battle Stage, as well as in DP093 when she was interviewing Fantina.

This is not what one would call "briefly". This is not a one-time disguise that is blown off by Ash and his friends at the end of the episode. It's a recurring thing, and GrammarFreak01 is apparently unaware of that and changing a sentence that was completely okay with their nonsense just to accomplish their "goal". It's getting tired and I'm asking for help because these are instances in which I got involved, but who knows the amount of wrong information they have added to the tons of pages they edit daily.

It's frankly discouraging to edit a page only to have its content vandalized (inserting gibberish into pages counts as vandalism, right?) by someone who has no idea what they're doing and are just trying to get the most recent revision of a page. Also, judging by their latest edit to my talk page, they expect me to be some sort of wizard who can see into the future and tell them that their edit is wrong ''before'' they even make it. I don't know how to respond to that and I'm not the only user who has complained about GrammarFreak01's bad editing habits. Something needs to be done about this situation and that's why I'm asking you to intervene. Please help. --[[User:Mikuri|'''Mi''']][[User talk: Mikuri|'''ku''']][[Special:Contributions/Mikuri|'''ri''']] 15:12, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

:I am well aware of how long Jessie has been disguised as Jessedia and what she used that disguise for. [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Marian&type=revision&diff=2860143&oldid=2860142 The original sentence] in question just did not make sense to me from a grammatical standpoint. Also, for someone who constantly complains about me having a need to "have the current revision of a page", Mikuri has a nasty habit of editing articles hours and even minutes right after me, leading me to assume she is maliciously following me using my edit history. Examples of this are:

:*[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Melody_(M02)&action=history Melody (M02)]
:*[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Maren&action=history Maren]
:*[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Carol&action=history Carol]
:*[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Tobias_(M02)&action=history Tobias (M02)]
:*[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Molly_Hale&action=history Molly Hale]
:*[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Liza_(Johto)&action=history Liza (Johto)]
:*[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Oakley&action=history Oakley]
:*[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Annie_(M05)&action=history Annie (M05)]
:*[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Ross&action=history Ross]
:*[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Butler&action=history Butler]
:*[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Rafe&action=history Rafe]
:*[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Jack_Walker&action=history Jack Walker]
:*[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Lugia_(M02)&action=history Lugia (M02)]
:*[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Entei_(M03)&action=history Entei (M03)]
:*[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Celebi_(M04)&action=history Celebi (M04)]
:*[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Suicune_(M04)&action=history Suicune (M04)]
:*[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Lucario_(M08)&action=history Lucario (M08)]

:If you've noticed in the edit histories I provided, much of the articles hadn't been edited in months prior to my original edits. Then, when I make an edit, Mikuri follows after, which I find to be a complete contradiction to their complaints about my editing practices. This was also a problem back in June, when I first [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AMikuri&type=revision&diff=2809252&oldid=2808516 confronted Mikuri about it]. The articles in question were:

:*[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Lillie_(anime)&offset=20180628163311&action=history Lillie (anime)]
:*[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Brock%27s_Vulpix&action=history Brock's Vulpix]
:*[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Matori&offset=20180818063550&action=history Matori]

:At one point in our argument, I said [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AMikuri&type=revision&diff=2859786&oldid=2859767 this]. I admit that it was poorly worded due to my blinding irritation of the situation (and that I probably should've changed it once I calmed down). But what I was hoping to convey was that if Mikuri had a problem with me trying to hog the latest revision of a page, they should've tried to take it to the talk page sooner, just like what was usually done with me whenever there was a problem.

:Clearly, this is a problem that has been going on for months now and I would appreciate your mediation. I don't particularly care about any outcome anymore, so fire away. I only ask that this contradiction on Mikuri's part be addressed in some way. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 22:34, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

::I started "maliciously following" GrammarFreak01's edit history '''after''' I noticed they were stalking my edits. Usually after I finished doing a major edit to a page, they would appear to unnecessarily tweak image sizes (something Tiddlywinks has warned them about) or make another one of their pointless edits. I accused them of doing that in some of my edit summaries and they decided to [[User talk:Mikuri#You're being paranoid|come to my talk page]] and call me paranoid. I could provide a laundry list of that, but I don't feel like it's needed. For one, GrammarFreak01's talk page is chock-full of messages telling them to stop with the pointless edits (and some of them were left there by you, Force Fire). In addition, I am not the only user who has complained about their edit stalking habits, as there is a [[User talk:GrammarFreak01#Edit Stalking|message left by PardescanSlowbro]] detailing the exact same behavior.
::In their defense, all GrammarFreak01 had to say is that they receive email notifications after someone edits a page they have edited in the past. So what? This is no excuse to go around and make needless edits only to have the current revision of a page. And that is the main point of this discussion: GrammarFreak01's history of wholly unnecessary edits that add nothing to our pages. Correction: sometimes their edits make the page worse, as they add wrong information about a subject they know nothing about only to have the most recent revision, as was the case with [[Yuzo]]'s page. Their concern isn't quality content and accurate information, but rather an enormous amount of unverified nonsense. I honestly don't care if my revision isn't the current one and I don't have this kind of problem with any other user in this entire wiki, '''unlike GrammarFreak01'''. Several users have contributed to pages I had worked on, and you don't see me complaining about them. But GrammarFreak01 is not here to contribute, they're here to make unnecessary edits.
::So yes, I can admit that I have edited several pages upon seeing one of GrammarFreak01's edits, but I guess this comes as no surprise considering the recent changes are there for everyone to see, and again, this was '''after''' I noticed they were stalking my edits and making unnecessary changes to them. And there's one notable difference: it was never to add information that was untrue about a subject I know nothing about. My point isn't that they are editing after me, but that those edits are needless. Editing a page after another user isn't a blockable offense, but inserting gibberish into pages is, as is edit flood and edit wars, behaviors also exhibited by GrammarFreak01. And I think it is worth comparing our contributions: I usually do a complete overhaul by adding verified information I gathered and uploading high quality images to the Archives, while GrammarFreak01 has a long and documented history of making pointless edits that add no real content to Bulbapedia and edit warring. --[[User:Mikuri|'''Mi''']][[User talk: Mikuri|'''ku''']][[Special:Contributions/Mikuri|'''ri''']] 00:34, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
:::If you read the entire discussion, you will see that [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AGrammarFreak01&type=revision&diff=2825193&oldid=2825153 I explained myself and asked PardescanSlowbro for examples] where my edits were unnecessary and clearly malicious. I was happy to address those concerns. But they did not get back to me on that. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 01:25, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

== False positive abuse filter triggers ==

Hello, recently I tried to move a message I misplaced on a user's talk page (see log [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Special:AbuseLog?wpSearchUser=Ozank&wpSearchTitle=&wpSearchWiki= here]) to the bottom where it should have been, but the abuse filter didn't let me. If you want to look into this, feel free. [[User:Ozank|Ozank]] ([[User talk:Ozank|talk]]) 16:43, 17 October 2018 (UTC)

:He already [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/User_talk:GrammarFreak01#Re:_Heads_up responded to that]. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 17:39, 17 October 2018 (UTC)
::Yeah, I've already answered this on GrammarFreak's talk page. I think the system may have deemed moving sections (to the proper place) a drastic edit for a new user. Other than that, you should be fine once you've become a member for a period of time.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 06:20, 18 October 2018 (UTC)

== Mimikyu's name ==

Hi there,
Since you're the one who placed the warning in Mimikyu's "Name Origin", would you mind giving it a look [[Talk:Mimikyu (Pokémon)#Mimic_.2B_Q_2|here]]? Seeing that talking about it in the talk page was the recommendation, I'd like to discuss about it a little. Thanks. [[User:ExLight|ExLight]] ([[User talk:ExLight|talk]]) 01:46, 20 October 2018 (UTC)

== Mewtwo's voice actor ==

I just watched [https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lrTmDZavVVc a video] where it was revealed that the English voice actor of the {{OBP|Mewtwo|original series|original series Mewtwo}} was actually ''not'' Philip Bartlett. That was a stage name, and the Philip Bartlett who died years ago was a completely different person, with the ''real'' English voice actor behind Mewtwo ''and'' the Philip Bartlett stage name being a man named Jay Goede. I feel like this is worth checking into. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 17:22, 20 October 2018 (UTC)
:[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Dr._Fuji_(anime)&diff=2200677&oldid=2192996 Judging by this] and [[Talk:M01#Dr. Fuji's voice|this]], it's been acknowledged back in 2014.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 09:38, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
::Ah. Okay. Sorry. Shouldn't there then be something like a tooltip on Mewtwo's page to indicate that "Philip Bartlett" is just a stage name? --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 09:58, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
:::Don't think it's too much of an issue to do so.

== Troublesome user ==

Heads up. Clearly [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Special:Contributions/Cheekybutthole this user] is [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Probopass_(Pok%C3%A9mon)&diff=prev&oldid=2868297 not here to contribute]. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 03:26, 24 October 2018 (UTC)

:Never mind, {{U|Abcboy}} took care of it. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 03:41, 24 October 2018 (UTC)

== links ==

is it all right to repeat links from an above section in a lower one. and u know that internal error that was mentioned above? im still getting it. also i couldnt help noticing ur ignoring a poor man's cry for help up above. not a very nice thing to do, wouldnt u say? :) --[[User:EternalDragonX|EternalDragonX]] ([[User talk:EternalDragonX|talk]]) 14:16, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
:If something has already been linked in a section, it does not need to be linked again. It's fine to have one link per section, '''only if said link isn't directly below the previous section'''. Once every few sections is fine, but not literally the next section below it.
:The internal error issue is being looked into. There has been no updates yet on its progress.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 05:41, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
::so lets say a link keyword is in every section. you'd want it to be linked in every other section? 1st, 3rd, 5th, etc. --[[User:EternalDragonX|EternalDragonX]] ([[User talk:EternalDragonX|talk]]) 06:10, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
:::Use common sense. Also, you don't have to link every time the word "Pokémon species", "Pokémon trainer", or whatever appears.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 06:21, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

==Voice Actors==
Sent you an email with a list of voice actors from Lisa Ortiz, do I have your approval?--[[User:BigDocFan|BigDocFan]] ([[User talk:BigDocFan|talk]]) 16:12, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
:Those are fine to be added.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 05:45, 7 November 2018 (UTC)

== Statistic ==

Why did you undo my edit to statistic? [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 17:56, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
:You're change wasn't necessary. It was basically saying the same thing.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 03:44, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
::I changed "take effect" to "start affecting turn order", which does not mean the same thing. Speed has other effects, such as determining the base power of gyro ball and electro ball, and those other effects immediately respond to changes to speed. [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 04:52, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
:::The full sentence is " will not take effect until the following turn". What you changed it to is still saying that it wont take effect until the next turn.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 05:00, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
::::What it currently says is false because it implies that changes to speed do not start affecting the power of gyro ball and electro ball until the next turn. What I changed it to is true because it does not imply that. How can they say the same thing if one is false and the other is true? Would it be better if it said, "An in-battle change to a Pokémon's Speed stat will not start affecting turn order until the following turn, but otherwise takes effect immediately"? [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 18:49, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::If I might butt in here, if what Sumwun is saying is true (I've not seen any information whether it is or not), then there 'is' a difference between the two, and I think Sumwun's edit should be reinstated. Speed has effect on more things than just turn order, and some might react to changes sooner than others. --[[User:Felthry|Felthry]] ([[User talk:Felthry|talk]]) 18:00, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::Why would you assume the sentence is talking about Gyro Ball or Electro Ball? It clearly isn't. It's talking about when a Pokémon's speed gets changed due to a stat change, it won't take affect until the following turn. Gyro Ball and Electro Ball are not moves that affect the user's speed, but rely on it, it's not going to get affected by a stat changing move.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 05:48, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::::Before commenting on the first 2 sentences of that comment, I just wanted to tell you that the last 2 sentences [https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-834770797 are false]. I will admit that Showdown! is the most reliable battle simulator available to me, and I'm sorry if that's not reliable enough. [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 06:51, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
::::::::"Simulator", hence why it isn't reliable. You can change things with a simulator.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 07:17, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::The replay was done in "Anything Goes", a standard format that does not change any battle mechanics. Do you still not trust it? [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 16:38, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
::::::::::No.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 16:40, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::::If not a Showdown! replay, what can convince you that changes in speed can take effect immediately? [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 18:03, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
::::::Gyro Ball and Electro Ball both depend on the user's speed, right? So why would you expect that changes to the user's speed wouldn't affect those moves? Regardless of whether it "clearly isn't" talking about them as you personally see it, it's better to be precise than to rely on implicit statements. --[[User:Felthry|Felthry]] ([[User talk:Felthry|talk]]) 23:38, 15 November 2018 (UTC)

== New Devolution ==
Hello Force Fire, I am a foreigner and reader on the Bulbapedia site. I only created an account in order to discuss a possible Pokémon capable of performing a Devolution, I mean Silvally (Type: Full).

Since originally this was his original form, however, he involuted to Type: Null after Faba added a helmet to his face, slowing him down. He will only be Silvally again when he destroys the helmet, that is, if it is valid I would like some moderator on the site to add this Pokémon to the article [[Devolution]]. [[User:NanayaShiki07|NanayaShiki07]] ([[User talk:NanayaShiki07|talk]]) 20:07, 10 November 2018 (~)
:Games=/=anime. I personally don't think it counts as anything. I also don't really care, mainly because the whole story behind Silvally and Type: Null, and how the latter is just the former with a helmet. It just unnecessarily makes things confusing and messes the whole concept of evolution in the franchise. So I don't have any strong opinions about this.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 05:48, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

== N as a rival ==

Don't put a message that says "Please do not add N, as he is not a rival" on the page, If you have an argument against it then put it in the talk page! [[User:Nightfall217|Nightfall217]] ([[User talk:Nightfall217|talk]]) 23:48, 12 November 2018 (UTC)
:As an administrator I ''can'' place a hidden message telling users what not to do until a consensus has been made.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 05:48, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

User talk:Force Fire/Archive 9

2018-11-11T18:00:20Z

Felthry: /* Statistic */

{{User:Force Fire/Archive}}

== Subpages of a userpage ==

Hello, I noticed you warning people about their userpages, so I thought you'd be the right person to ask this. The thing is, I would like to create a subpage listing my in-game teams using the standard team template, since I want there to be more things related to Pokémon and me on my page. I wanted to ask whether or not it is allowed at all and what I should keep in mind besides not editing excessively. Thank you! [[User:Kikugi|Kikugi]] ([[User talk:Kikugi|talk]]) 10:16, 9 May 2018 (UTC)
:Making subpages for that is fine, the rules for subpages is the same as a normal userpage. An edit to your subpage also counts to the "three userspace edits per day" rule.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 10:28, 9 May 2018 (UTC)

== Another offensive username ==

Puta is a really rude word in Spanish(I think the account maker failed to use proper alts, but their intent is clear...is this worth your time for an unacceptable username?--[[User:BlisseyandtheAquaJets|BlisseyandtheAquaJets]] ([[User talk:BlisseyandtheAquaJets|talk]]) 17:16, 9 May 2018 (UTC)

== "Not everything is a pun" ==

...I never said everything is, but SM is known for them and "ワル" is not a Japanese word, but "warui" (悪い) is! And since it's spelled as "ワル" and "Warubiaru" (ワルビアル) is in the episode it makes sense it's a pun. I have no idea what your problem is and I don't care, but I've already explained why it's a pun. "ワル" isn't used as "bad" in katakana, but words are used in different characters when they're a joke. Like the episode with Dhelmise with "Ikari" (anger) being used as "いかり" as "anchor" but the same spelling "Ikari" also can be used to mean "怒り" (anger). [[User:Playerking95|Playerking95]] ([[User talk:Playerking95|talk]]) 19:31, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
:Please respond and change it back because it's not spelled the right way, meaning it is a pun. I don't care what your problem is, but not correctly addressing a pun in a title that clearly has one just makes Bulbapedia look stupid. I've been obvious why it's a pun. Why can episode titles like SM071, SM065, and SM040 be acknowledged but not this? [[User:Playerking95|Playerking95]] ([[User talk:Playerking95|talk]]) 14:54, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
::Just because "waru" is written in katakana, doesn't mean it no longer means "悪" or has a different meaning. "ワル" is still "悪", it's not some nonsensical word. And yes, "悪" can be used by itself. As for the title, "waru" could also be referring to Nanu, considering his attire and the fact the title includes "oyaji" (since it's "...waru oyaji wa...").
::As for the other episodes, they're fine. Ikari can mean either Anchor and Anger, like you said, so that's a pun. "Mairimasu" ''is'' pure nonsense and could only be a pun. "Pan-paka-pan" is a trumpet fanfare with just happens to include the word "pan", and the episode was about bread.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 15:20, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
:::The idea that not translating a pun is bad needs to be addressed.
:::Translating puns is HARD.
:::It is ''not'' always worth wracking your brain over or compensating for otherwise. And it's not even necessarily worth forcing something. Not translating a pun does not make Bulbapedia look stupid... [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 15:37, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

== Surge/Terrain confusion ==

There's confusion going on in the anime whether the [[Tapu]] are activating their signature abilities or using the Terrain moves. This issue has been resolved with {{DL|Recurring wild Pokémon in the anime|Tapu Koko}}, but people are still mixing up {{DL|Recurring wild Pokémon in the anime|Tapu Lele}} and {{DL|Recurring wild Pokémon in the anime|Tapu Bulu}}'s Abilities with their Terrain moves. When Tapu Lele and Tapu Bulu activated their Abilities {{a|Psychic Surge}} and {{a|Grassy Surge}} respectively, users are assuming that they are using the attacks {{m|Psychic Terrain}} and {{m|Grassy Terrain}} instead. That is not the case. In ''[[SM037|Rising from the Ruins!]]'' and [[SM075]], when Tapu Lele and Tapu Bulu enter battle with Rockruff and {{AP|Lycanroc}} respectively, their Surge Abilities go off at the start of their battles. This happened with Tapu Koko as well when it battled {{AP|Pikachu}} in ''[[SM002|The Guardian's Challenge!]]'' and ''[[SM019|A Guardian Rematch!]]''. The Terrain moves can go off during any point of the battle, however the Surge Abilities can only activate when the Pokémon enter the field. Another point to show that it's their abilities activating in those episodes and not their attacks is in ''[[SM052|Revealing the Stuff of Legend!]]'' where all four Tapu used the four Terrain moves to show {{Ash}} and {{ashfr|the gang}} [[Nebby#In_the_anime|Nebby]]'s backstory. Even the anime makes mistakes as shown in SM075 where [[Acerola]] and {{Rotom}} misidentify Tapu Bulu's Grassy Surge as Grassy Terrain. --[[User:PKMNAdventurer|PKMNAdventurer]] ([[User talk:PKMNAdventurer|talk]]) 21:32, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
:I've removed them and added a hidden notice. Abilities and moves need to be explicitly said, especially those that would potentially have the same exact animation.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 03:11, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
::Ok, looks like Psychic Terrain was confirmed via dub captions (which is fine, until/unless the Japanese version says that it's something else later on). Grassy Terrain was said, which you've noted. Is it an error? We don't know. But for now, it is not an error unless they contradict themselves and call it Grassy Surge later on. At the end of the day, the is no confusion. Assuming moves is something you shouldn't be doing. If it is said or revealed in close caption, then that's final.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 12:08, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
:::Ok. I wanted to make sure if the move used was either the Terrain Move or the Surge Ability. Thank you for clearing it up. --[[User:PKMNAdventurer|PKMNAdventurer]] ([[User talk:PKMNAdventurer|talk]]) 20:48, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

== Requests ==

If you would be so kind, could you please hear me out and consider doing a couple things I can't do (at least without permission, in some cases):
* Template {{template|Trainerentry}} has several handy redirects for Trainer classes that have changed their names over the years, such as "Cooltrainer" to "Ace Trainer" and "Rocket" to "Team Rocket Grunt". However, there are several Trainer class name changes that have either been missed or happened after the template was last edited, like "Rocket Grunt"{{tt|*|From Generation II}} to "Team Rocket Grunt", "Pokéfan" to "Poké Fan", "Swimmer ♂/♀" to "Swimmer", and "Clerk ♂/♀" to "Office Worker". There may be others than these, but anyway, my point is, could you please add the missing redirects to the template in the same way as the already existing redirects?
* Back in January, I suggested that the [[Pokémon League (Alola)/Title Defense]] page should be split into separate SM and USUM Title Defense pages. I've already got the USUM section ready right [[User:FinnishPokéFan92/Pokémon League (Alola)/Title Defense/Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon|here]] under my own userspace in case the idea gets approved. Do you think the page should be split?
* Ummm... I recall having a third request, but it doesn't come to my mind right now. I'll come back if I can remember it.
:--[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 12:59, 20 May 2018 (UTC)
::I've added the examples you've provided. If there are any more, do let me know.
::I've forwarded the article with the other staff members.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 08:16, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
:::Thank you for hearing me out. And indeed, I've discovered a few more redirect links that should be fixed: "Officer" and "Policeman" to "Police Officer", "Interviewer" to "Interviewers", "Socialite" to "Madame", and "School Kid" to "Schoolkid". Also, a couple of other things related to this subject:
::::In Generation II, the "Swimmer" class was classified as "Swimmer♂/♀", as in without a space, while in Generation VI, it's "Swimmer ♂/♀", as in ''with'' a space. The latter redirect is yet to be fixed.
::::In Generation II, the Trainer class that would later be known as "Schoolkid" was called "Schoolboy", hence why "Schoolboy" redirects to "Schoolkid" (or rather "School Kid", a redirect link). And then, in Generation VI, we were introduced to the separate "Schoolboy" Trainer class. As such, the Schoolboy links from Generation VI now lead to an incorrect article (similar to the "Medium" link from [[Saffron Gym]]'s page, actually, due to the Channeler class's renaming in Stadium, but that's a much more minor subject). I know this may be an impossible or at least a difficult problem to solve properly, but I decided to bring it up nevertheless, just in case.
:::The request I forgot about yesterday is actually a pretty old one: back in 2013, I made a suggestion to change the {{template|Gym Leaders of Unova}} to better separate the BW and B2W2 Gym Leaders from each other, but my edit (which you can see [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Template:Gym_Leaders_of_Unova&oldid=1865505 here]) was undone, because I hadn't talked about it beforehand. Since then, I've forgotten, remembered, and re-forgotten this multiple times, but now I've finally managed to make myself bring this long-forgotten topic up again. Could the template be edited in this or at least in a similar kind of way, or do you feel it's good enough as it is?
:::Also, I've also come up with a couple new things I'd want to propose since yesterday: could "Tide Song Hotel" and "Kantonian Gym" receive their own articles? I've already asked people's opinions about these ideas on [[Heahea City]] and [[Malie City]]'s talk pages, and at least the Tide Song Hotel split seems to have gotten some support already. Could you take these splits into consideration as well? Thank you.
:::--[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 10:04, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
::::Oh, and while I'm at it, I also found one Orre Trainer class redirect to fix: "Fun Old Lady" to "Matron". --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 12:35, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
:::::Ah, didn't see the subtle difference with the Swimmer trainer class. I've added the other TCs.
:::::I think the Unova Gym Leader Template is fine the way it is. Repeating the same Gym Leaders is pretty unnecessary, while I do get why, the template is about who are the Gym Leaders, separating by game isn't necessary. Plus, the three newer Gym Leaders being at the bottom of the first eight already implies that they were added later on.
:::::I've forwarded those suggestions to the other admins as well.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 05:11, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
::::::I actually just saw you making that edit. Thanks a lot.
::::::I understand. It's fine. I won't raise that topic again.
::::::Thanks once again. I'll be waiting for the results. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 05:36, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
:::::::Sorry to bother you again, but I've found a couple more links to fix, mainly from the Orre games:
::::::::Let's get the simpler ones out of the way first: "Researcher" and "Cipher R&D" to "Scientist".
::::::::Now, for something I'm not so sure of: the Orre-exclusive classes "Rogue" "Kaminko Aide", and "Robo Groudon" are Trainer classes used by only one person each, and they also only appear as redirect links on one page each. Hence why I'm not sure if these redirects should be removed or not. What do you think?
::::::::And finally, something a bit different, but still involving the same template. A big number of Fighting-type Trainers in FireRed and LeafGreen have their Pokémon holding Black Belts. However, the template links the "Black Belt" held item to "Type-enhancing item#Black Belt". This was understandable before, but now "Black Belt (item)" has its own article. Could you change the link to go to the item's own page now?
:::::::Thank you. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 06:59, 25 May 2018 (UTC)
::::::::Done. As for the three single trainer trainer classes, I think they're fine, due to the way the template works (the second parameter is under a TC template, so their has to be a [name] (Trainer class) link.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 03:29, 26 May 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::Thank you once again. However, when I looked at your edits, I also happened to notice that, similar to the Black Belt link you fixed, the held item link for "Metronome" leads to "In-battle effect item#Metronome". I can understand that you didn't notice that during your edit, so I'm not blaming you of anything, but could you be so kind and fix that one, too? --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 05:25, 26 May 2018 (UTC)
::::::::::Whoopsie! Every time I think I'm done with this issue, I notice something new. The redirect link of "Poké'''F'''an" to "Poké Fan" has been fixed, but it's formatted as "Poké'''f'''an" on every pre-Generation VI page (as well as on the "Poké Fan (Trainer class)" article), and ''that'' redirect link still remains to be fixed. Could you do this one more thing? I'm sorry if you feel bothered by this. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 12:40, 27 May 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::::(deep sigh) One. More. Once again I've noticed something. In Generation II, some Poké Fans had their Pokémon holding Berries, as in "Berry (item)", but link just goes to "Berry". Could that be fixed? PS. I also have other stuff to talk about with you, but I'll probably start a new section for that purpose later. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 08:04, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

== Force preview question ==

I've heard about the force preview group, where you have to preview your edits before publishing them. And I thought it might help me slow down and evaluate if my edits are actually helpful, since I have a tendency to act impulsively. Is it possible to ask to be put in that group? I was just curious. [[User:Veralann|'''Incentive'''''' (a.k.a. Veralann)''']] 02:49, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

== PokeShay ==

I think it was a little harsh to block him for that. You could've just asked about it on his talk page. --[[User:Raltseye|Raltseye]] [[User talk:Raltseye|prata med mej]] 16:03, 24 May 2018 (UTC)

== "Pokémon seen" lists for movie locations ==

I wasn't too sure who to ask about this, though I have noticed that some movie-based locations have got the "Pokémon seen" lists and others don't. What is the requirement for these types of pages?. E.g. The Lake of Life has an incomplete list whilst Forina and the Tree of Beginning do not have any list, instead the Pokémon are just listed in the description section.

Also who is the authority on uploading images to the archives? I have a few images in mind that are needed to complete other pages like the Pokémon mate page.

Thanks. [[User:PardescanSlowbro|PardescanSlowbro]] ([[User talk:PardescanSlowbro|talk]]) 09:55, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
:Locations where Pokémon actually live there have the Pokémon list. Though I'm not too sure if it's needed, as most are just wild Pokémon. Maybe if they play a large role in the area, such as the titans in Tree of Beginning, then they can be listed. Otherwise, it's unnecessary. As for the archives, you have to create an account at the archives and wait to be autoconfirmed there (the requirements are the same as it is on the wiki).--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 02:43, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

::Thank you for the information. [[User:PardescanSlowbro|PardescanSlowbro]] ([[User talk:PardescanSlowbro|talk]]) 09:36, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

== Unaccpetable username ==

[[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Special:Contributions/Son_of_a_gun]] {{unsigned|RubyLeafGreenCrystal}}
:No it's not.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 02:43, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

== Bulbapedia lagging ==

Not really sure if this is the appropriate place to ask, but is the site undergoing updates or something? Loading for this site is lagging for me. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 20:45, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

:Never mind. The issue seems to have resolved itself. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 21:48, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

== Could I have my userspace privileges back? ==

It's been like 6 years and I mostly just wanna delete it lmao --[[User:Pokelova|Pokelova]] ([[User talk:Pokelova|talk]]) 12:17, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
:Done.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 14:18, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

== Edgreen293 ==

{{user|Edgreen293}} is at it again ([https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Chopper&diff=prev&oldid=2803690] [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Janet&diff=prev&oldid=2803692] [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Damian&diff=prev&oldid=2803693]). [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 22:29, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
: I might also add {{user|Tygamer64}} since both GrammarFreak01 and I were discussing him on his talk page. Since he has made rather pointless edits and we were told to report these cases. '''Ice''' [[User talk:The IceCream|Cream]] 15:25, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

== RE: Episode links ==

The links I added are from a licensed Pokémon copyright holder, so there is no copyright issue here. They are all legal.--[[User:Magicknight94|Magicknight94]] ([[User talk:Magicknight94|talk]]) 09:31, 6 June 2018 (UTC)
:Did you read my reply?--[[User:Magicknight94|Magicknight94]] ([[User talk:Magicknight94|talk]]) 14:52, 7 June 2018 (UTC)
::You still can't link to full episodes or episode clips, regardless of whether it comes from an official source or not.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 04:35, 8 June 2018 (UTC)
:::Why not? If copyright is not the issue here, what is the problem? Can you explain? --[[User:Magicknight94|Magicknight94]] ([[User talk:Magicknight94|talk]]) 07:33, 8 June 2018 (UTC)
:::Hello?--[[User:Magicknight94|Magicknight94]] ([[User talk:Magicknight94|talk]]) 05:22, 11 June 2018 (UTC)
::::Be patient. Force Fire is probably busy. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 05:31, 11 June 2018 (UTC)
:::::The issue '''is''' copyright. We choose not to link to episodes available on streaming sites, regardless of it being from an official source or not, just to be on the safe side. Also, the link you provided was for the Vietnamese dub, which I don't think anyone visiting an ''English'' wiki would be interested in.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 05:14, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

== Pokemon 4ever working title? ==

https://www.serebii.net/archive/September-2000.shtml Scrolling down that page a bit shows a 7-frame promo for a project simply called ''Pokémon 2001'' and one of the frames shows a Celebi, no plans to currently add anything about it to the Pokémon 4ever page but I was wondering what your thoughts were on this. ''[[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen]] [[User talk:Frozen Fennec|Fennec]]'' 14:05, 13 June 2018 (UTC)
:Do you have another source for that other than Serebii? Serebii is not a credible source, as it's a fansite.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 13:10, 14 June 2018 (UTC)
::Nope, just randomly came across that and given how old the page was, got a little curious. Tried to reverse image search the frames but could not find anything at all. ''[[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen]] [[User talk:Frozen Fennec|Fennec]]'' 13:12, 14 June 2018 (UTC)
:::Not sure if I can post this video, but here's video proof. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Od-eFQhVRI [[User:Playerking95|Playerking95]] ([[User talk:Playerking95|talk]]) 13:56, 14 June 2018 (UTC)
::::Oh wow, did not know there was still video footage, I just thought it was those seven screenshots. Wonder if this would be worth adding to the Pokémon 4ever section as trivia. ''[[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen]] [[User talk:Frozen Fennec|Fennec]]'' 14:01, 14 June 2018 (UTC)

== PardescanSlowbro ==

I'm having a really big problem with {{user|PardescanSlowbro}} right now. I once sent him [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3APardescanSlowbro&type=revision&diff=2768197&oldid=2766807 this message] in response to his editing style, and [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3APardescanSlowbro&type=revision&diff=2768426&oldid=2768197 he took it pretty personally] (even though I was also [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AGrammarFreak01&type=revision&diff=2768465&oldid=2766949 in the wrong here]). Since then, the user has made edits to a variety of articles, and I've commonly had to edit them to rectify errors that he made. For example, [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=EP045&type=revision&diff=2809520&oldid=2806418 he very recently edited] the plot summary of [[EP045]] and [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=EP045&diff=next&oldid=2809520 this] was what I did to improve it (note that I also did some unrelated changes at the same time).

[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3APardescanSlowbro&type=revision&diff=2801230&oldid=2801220 I once tried] to inform him of some of the kinds of errors he kept making in his edits, like [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AGrammarFreak01&type=revision&diff=2768465&oldid=2766949 you suggested], but [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3APardescanSlowbro&type=revision&diff=2801256&oldid=2801230 this] was his response. He also said [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3APardescanSlowbro&type=revision&diff=2801220&oldid=2801168 this beforehand]. [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3APardescanSlowbro&type=revision&diff=2801258&oldid=2801256 I tried] to be rational and explain myself this time, but the conversation did not move forward anymore, so I gave up trying to reason with him and just resorted to editing at his heels whenever I saw an error. He eventually [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3APardescanSlowbro&type=revision&diff=2809534&oldid=2809278 got agitated] by this. [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3APardescanSlowbro&type=revision&diff=2809538&oldid=2809534 I tried] asking for specifics about his complaints of me, but [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3APardescanSlowbro&type=revision&diff=2809541&oldid=2809538 he claimed I already knew what I was doing] (I legitimately do not). After I [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3APardescanSlowbro&type=revision&diff=2809547&oldid=2809541 responded a couple of times], he went on [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3APardescanSlowbro&type=revision&diff=2809557&oldid=2809547 a tirade] against me.

If any, if not all of his grievances towards me are legitimate, then I do apologize immensely. But I sincerely believe I've been trying to be helpful and he just rebuffs it. Either way, could you please step in? [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 07:39, 17 June 2018 (UTC)

:He also had [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3APardescanSlowbro&type=revision&diff=2809565&oldid=2809561 this] to say recently. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 07:44, 17 June 2018 (UTC)

::{{user|Tiddlywinks}} has [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:PardescanSlowbro&diff=0&oldid=2809568 pitched in]. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 19:25, 17 June 2018 (UTC)

== Harassment Procedure ==

Dear ForceFire,

I have felt personally vindicated and harassed by the user GrammarFreak01 on a continuous basis. I have pleaded to be left alone by the user and made them clearly aware of my feelings on their conduct towards myself. I was never under the assumption that any of my edits were to be untouched, though found the user in question deliberately followed and made, in some cases minor and pointless changes to over 40 pages (Episode 1 to 46 and some associated anime pages) directly after I did over recent days. The pages in question, at least the plot sections required some detail corrections but until my additions had not been looked at for several years. I had earlier requested significant action be taken against the user on Tiddlywinks page after an earlier spate of unexplained deletions to additions which were quickly reinstated by Tiddlywinks. Nothing came of this request on Tiddlywinks page, and the behaviour has persisted and worsened into vitriol that centres on GrammarFreak01's belief I referred to them as racist, though nothing of the sorts has occurred. I can no longer handle the barrage of blatancy and continuous harassment written on my discussion page by GrammarFreak01, and wish for those actions to end. At all times I have maintained my distance, and have thanked the user for their efforts when they have worked in collaboration with myself. Though their commentary and vicious attacks on my supposed sensitivities and linguistics must end. I have let things slide, despite my discontent, as to avoid further escalation. The user has been told to maintain their distance and respect previously written advices to improve their conduct, though such warnings remain unheeded and their pattern of behaviour towards me continues to intensify. I am completely naïve when it comes to Bulbapedia's bullying procedures, though require strong action be taken to ensure the harassment, belittlement and bullying that I have been exposed to by user GrammarFreak01 does not ever repeat.

I look forward to your reply, though will maintain my reserve and distance nonetheless,
[[User:PardescanSlowbro|PardescanSlowbro]] ([[User talk:PardescanSlowbro|talk]]) 12:04, 17 June 2018 (UTC)

: Seeing as I have been the only one to receive any commentary it is best I be moved on. My claims have been outright ignored and also denied, despite the sheer amount of evidence to say otherwise. At the very least the user in question should have been told to remain at a distance, though has immediately gone on the attack again; though of course I am making everything up and overreacting as you pointed out. As such, please delete my account, this forum is no longer suitable to myself, my temperament or my skills. Thanks.[[User:PardescanSlowbro|PardescanSlowbro]] ([[User talk:PardescanSlowbro|talk]]) 13:44, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

== Move trivia ==

How do I know if trivia about moves is notable? The stuff I add sometimes gets undone even if it's unique to that move. [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 17:54, 18 June 2018 (UTC)
:Depends on what the trivia is.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 05:34, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
::I guess a recent example would be my attempt to add a trivium to thunder wave. It said that thunder wave is currently the only status move whose effectiveness depends on the type chart, so that ground Pokemon were immune because it was electric type and not because it was programmed separately. I thought it was unique and notable, but it was taken down. [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 17:57, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

== Erica124 yet again ==

{{user|Erica124}} has once again shown [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Walking_Pok%C3%A9mon&type=revision&diff=2810509&oldid=2808316 her inability] to use her force preview, despite [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AErica124&type=revision&diff=2808504&oldid=2771952 my earlier warning]. Maybe it's time to let her go? [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 04:24, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
:Perma-blocking her is for the staff to decide, not you. You also need to calm down when approaching "problem" users, yes their continuous wrongdoings can be frustrating, by try to keep a level head when dealing with them. As for blocking, it's not excessive. Can't do much if it's a once in a while thing.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 05:34, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
::Oh, I thought you were part of staff? [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
:::Also, just so you know, it's not a once-in-a-while thing. Erica124 made [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Walking_Pok%C3%A9mon&type=revision&diff=2756991&oldid=2756735 the same exact error] on the same article before, and [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AErica124&type=revision&diff=2808504&oldid=2771952 I did warn her about it once]. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 06:59, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
::::I am. A perma block is something that needs to be discussed with other staff members first, not just immediately executed, unless the user we're dealing with is a vandal.
::::Yes, but her recent spate of unpreviewed edits aren't happening as frequently as it did back in March. She's not editing daily. She only didn't use the preview button on one article today. The last one before today was June 15th, four days ago. And the one before that was last month. Compare it to March where it was almost daily. --[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 07:25, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
:::::Oh, okay. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 07:51, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

== Reply ==

Anything to say on my page? [[User:RubyLeafGreenCrystal|RubyLeafGreenCrystal]] ([[User talk:RubyLeafGreenCrystal|talk]]) 06:39, 26 June 2018 (UTC)

== Quick query==
This is present in the trivia section on the Slowbro page:

*Slowbro's Pokédex entries state that if the Shellder is removed, it will revert to its Slowpoke form.
**This is the only mentioning of a Pokémon possibly devolving anywhere in the Pokémon games, aside from a card in the game versions of the TCG.

The first part is fine, the second point is incorrect as Exeggutor can also revert. Should the second point be deleted entirely as it both untrue and not unique or altered to include a connection with Exeggutor

e.g Slowbro and Exeggutor are the only recorded cases of Pokémon capable of devolution [[User:PardescanSlowbro|PardescanSlowbro]] ([[User talk:PardescanSlowbro|talk]]) 12:43, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
:The second point may be removed as it is not unique to one Pokémon.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 13:19, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

:: No worries, thank you.[[User:PardescanSlowbro|PardescanSlowbro]] ([[User talk:PardescanSlowbro|talk]]) 13:40, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

== Poké Problem characters list ==

OK, so my recent edit of [[SM080]] was taken down by you on the basis that, since the Pokémon I put on the appearance list appeared exclusively in the episode's Poké Problem, it doesn't deserve a mention (since Poké Problems are part of the episode apparently). I've also noticed that some edits on [[SM079]] also got erased on the same reason. Yet previous episodes' character lists feature characters that only appeared in the episodes' Poké Problem segments (for example Brock & Misty's siblings in [[SM042]]'s case and Harper and Sarah for [[SM071]]). As such, I have to wonder why its sometimes okay for characters and Pokémon that appeared exclusively in the Poké Problem of an episode to be mentioned on the character lists of said episode, but other times it's not OK? [[User:Pulsaro23|Pulsaro23]] ([[User talk:Pulsaro23|talk]]) 17:03, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
:Then those need to removed from their episodes and any other episodes that list PokéProblem appearances needs to be fixed. PokéProblem is a segment similar to Who's That Pokémon, it is not part of the actual episode.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 13:57, 30 June 2018 (UTC)
::While I'll agree that the Poké Problem and Who's that Pokémon segments share a similarity (the fact that they are tied to a situation/Pokémon from the episode), they are also very different. By that I mean that, while the WtP segment doesn't have any impact on the overall story of the episode, the bonus scenes shown after the Poké Problem segments expand upon the story of the episode (personally, I'd say they're very similar to the after-credits scenes form the Marvel & DC movies). For example, the Poké Problem segments for SM022 and SM057 feature scenes that resolve the episodes' ending cliffhangers, while others, like the ones for SM042 and SM030, flesh out more of the characters' personality and traits, as well as showing their relationships with other characters. As such, I'd say that, while Poké Problem segments are really part of the main episode, they still have some degree of importance, since the scenes shown at the end of those segments expand upon the main theme/story/characters of the episode (and as such, they should, as you say, "count"). Plus, in the case of the XY series, characters that appeared exclusively in its Poké TV segments were mentioned on the appearance list for its episodes (e.g. XY096, XY099, XY106 etc.). So why should the Poké TV segments receive special treatment and the Poké Problem ones not? [[User:Pulsaro23|Pulsaro23]] ([[User talk:Pulsaro23|talk]]) 14:37, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

== Usage of the word "native" ==

{{user|PardescanSlowbro}} is [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Raichu_%28Pok%C3%A9mon%29&type=revision&diff=2813914&oldid=2812285 concerned] about using the word "native" to describe the residents of [[Alola]] in the {{p|Raichu}} article, due to its connection to indigenous peoples who have been plagued with stereotypes and also its purported implicit nature as a development discourse, thus making it potentially offensive to some people. I did not see anything wrong with the word's usage, however, since it can alternatively be used as a synonym for "resident" or "citizen", as I [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3APardescanSlowbro&type=revision&diff=2813930&oldid=2813886 pointed out to him]. He's still concerned and has [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:PardescanSlowbro&diff=next&oldid=2813930 pointed out] that official literature no longer uses the word, seemingly making it taboo, even though I have still heard it being used in the context I just described.

Do you think it is appropriate to use "native" in any shape or form here? I'm not aware of any other articles here that use the word. I do acknowledge the potential issue of indigenous peoples being offended, but I don't think anyone will be offended given the word's context in the Raichu article. What do you think? [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 06:12, 30 June 2018 (UTC)
:It's fine to use the word "native". No need to think that someone will get offended by the word.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 09:44, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

:: You failed to acknowledge my concerns, and reverted my re-edit after GrammarFreak01 again deleted it. The latest addition aided the sentence in making it more concise, and as stated, the phrase 'the natives' is not used by the Pokémon Company in any of it literature, and probably for good measure. The term 'native' to mean local makes sense though should only be applied to describe an area or plant such as on the Vileplume page under the biology section. I would like another opinion as you have allowed a good edit to be reverted[[User:PardescanSlowbro|PardescanSlowbro]] ([[User talk:PardescanSlowbro|talk]]) 05:52, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
:::It's very clear you changed the sentence because of your dislike of the word "native", whether it was a good change or not. You made the change because there was a word you didn't like. That's why it got reverted. There's is nothing wrong with using the word. The Pokémon Company not using it doesn't mean we can't use the word. You're thinking too much into the negative connotation of the word.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 06:00, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
:::: Negative connotations is your justification? I saw the term and looked at it as an opportunity to make a positive change in line with one of Bulbapedia's major aims, inclusivity. Allowing the phrase 'the natives' is an issue as it is loaded language and may be used on other pages in much the same way. But correcting the term to something more global and neutral has become the issue, leaving aside the issues associated with using this turn of phrase in the first place, even though the original editor of course had no intention of being racist or degrading to particular demographics. By actually allowing this term to pass through with your acceptance, you are also condoning the use of this term in much the same way across potentially other articles and it may enter people's own thoughts on people of different backgrounds. Inclusivity was my motivation because of the so-called negative and very true reality for many individuals on this planet, that terms like this are harmful. I cannot imagine the editor's guide has any detail on this specific turn of phrase, though it would diffidently be designed to uphold inclusivity of all peoples.[[User:PardescanSlowbro|PardescanSlowbro]] ([[User talk:PardescanSlowbro|talk]]) 06:23, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
:::::You just admitted that the editor that added the word had no intention of being racist or degrading, if you already think that then it shouldn't be an issue. It's not offensive unless someone makes it offensive. The sentence is in no way written in an offensive manner, and no one will take it as an insult. You're looking to much into it.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 06:57, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
::::::I'm afraid you are wrong when it comes to the development discourse, it is an issue incidental or not. I am going to contact someone higher up to alert them to my concerns about the phrase, not word, "the natives", as you have plainly ignored the fact that such terminology is typically avoided due to taboo and discrimination surrounding it. Thanks [[User:PardescanSlowbro|PardescanSlowbro]] ([[User talk:PardescanSlowbro|talk]]) 07:06, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
:::::::When used correctly, "native" can also be "global and neutral". The only way it can be considered "loaded language" is if the person writing it in question ''makes'' it loaded language. I understand the history behind the word, and I also understand that the current political climate makes usage of certain words even more dangerous, but if the word has alternate meanings that are more acceptable, then I don't see why we must avoid using it, no matter how incidental the racism. If you have a problem with it, take it up with Merriam-Webster, not the admins here. If someone else does have a problem with it, we'll talk it out, see where it goes. But in the meantime, we can't simply just avoid using a certain word out of concern of potentially offending someone, even if the word in question is used in an appropriate, non-offensive context. I can't think of anyone else here who would think this word, or similarly loaded language of any kind, should be omitted in its entirety even though it's being used in a non-offensive context. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 07:11, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
::::::::Exactly. The word is not used in a derogatory manner, it is completely fine. It's all about context, and in this case, the context is not offensive. The only person that has a problem with it is you, Pardescan. And we won't change it just because one person thinks it may be offensive. I'll repeat this again, because you seem to be ignoring it, '''you are looking too much into the negative aspects of the word'''.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 07:32, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::It looks like [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AAbcboy&type=revision&diff=2814552&oldid=2806683 he's made good on his promise]. I've already pitched my counterargument. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 07:43, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

== Template mainspace request ==

For the new Light trio page, there would need to be six Pokémon in the stats section, but there is no such template. I made a [[User:Celadonkey/Template:Groupstats/6|template]] for it and I wanted to know if I could mainspace it to add to the Light trio page. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celadonkey]] 14:05, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

== Integration of Spaceworld Iterations of Existing Pokémon ==

I felt I would ask this here, since you're the one who linked the in-progress pages for the Pokémon Gold/Silver Spaceworld demo and you seem to know what the plans for them are, and the Gold and Silver Beta discussion page is rather cluttered and doesn't seem like a good place to catch the attention of anybody in particular.

There are a number of Pokémon added for the demo that did end up being released as official Pokémon, such as the Mareep, and Phanpy lines, Crobat, Espeon, Umbreon, Miltank, and others, who are present in the Spaceworld demo build, sometimes with different names and subtly-different designs. Additionally, there are Pokémon such as Haneko, Poponeko, and Wataneko, Gift, Blissey, Scissors, Leafeon, etc. that are very obviously earlier drafts of Pokémon that would appear in Generation II or later.

Are these Pokémon going to be integrated into the site differently compared to, say, Pokémon like Honoguma, Kurusu, Norowara, Wolfman, or Twinz, that were very clearly cut entirely and have yet to appear in any official, publicly-released Pokémon game?

As an aside, how are name labels going to be handled for Pokémon such as Kingdra, Girafarig, and Bellossom, whose final names are already present and in use in the demo? It seems to me that the sensible thing to do would be to label them with their final English names, since the names they have do have official English-language counterparts, and it would be clearer and easier to read for readers who might be unfamiliar with with the Japanese names of those Pokémon.
[[User:Topaz Light|Topaz Light]] ([[User talk:Topaz Light|talk]]) 14:38, 3 July 2018 (UTC)
:Right now, the focus should be filling out the userpages with information before all that. The staff will figure out how the handle them in the mean time.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 05:58, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

== A Small Request ==

Hi. A while ago I had asked to be put in the forcepreview group for editing. If possible, I think I'm ready to edit without needing to look at all my edits beforehand. If you could please take me out of forcepreview, and abuse as well, I would really appreciate it. Thank you. [[User:Veralann|'''Incentive'''''' (a.k.a. Veralann)''']] 19:57, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
:I'll take you out of force preview, but not out of abuse. You have not made nearly enough mainspace edits to warrant be placed out of abuse. Being away for a month means absolutely nothing. If you want out of abuse, prove that you will contribute more to the mainspace by making a whole lot of edits there.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 05:04, 6 July 2018 (UTC)

== Random question ==

On the Pokemon articles, why do the Pokedex entry, location, and sprite tables always put Emerald before FireRed and LeafGreen even though Emerald was released after? [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 18:42, 12 July 2018 (UTC)
:Probably to group the hoenn games together.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 05:18, 13 July 2018 (UTC)
::Thanks for answering, I guess. [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 06:03, 13 July 2018 (UTC)

== Bulbapedia lagging again ==

It seems this site is becoming very laggy for me. Is there an issue with the site? [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 06:28, 16 July 2018 (UTC)
:Site's running smoothly for me. Probably something on your end.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 06:37, 16 July 2018 (UTC)
::Well, it seems the site's running smoothly for me now. It might've had something to do with the connection. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 06:42, 16 July 2018 (UTC)

== List of locations by name ==

I personally think the page should stop excluding named routes. Even if we somehow made the definition clear, I still don't want people checking both that page and "list of routes" to see if either of them has the location they want. I also don't see a good reason for the exclusion. I think excluding cities and numbered routes is okay because people can tell if somewhere is a city or numbered route just by looking at the name. Even then, I'm leaning toward including cities because some places (like Two Island) don't end in "City" or "Town" and aren't obviously cities. [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 05:40, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

== Staff imitating user ==

{{u|Форс файре}} is a cyrillisation of your name. --[[User:Raltseye|Raltseye]] [[User talk:Raltseye|prata med mej]] 18:47, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

== Nintenchris5963 ==

The user {{user|Nintenchris5963}} added something to the [[Talk:Mt. Silver]] which I'm pretty sure isn't allowed on talk pages. Should the comment he made be removed or should it stay? (I'm only asking since it's normally not allowed to remove Talk Page comments). '''Ice''' [[User talk:The IceCream|Cream]] 10:46, 19 July 2018 (UTC)
:You can remove comments that breach the talk page policy.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 11:53, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

== "Faint" versus "Get knocked out" ==

"Faint" is the more technical term, so I try to change "knocked out" to "faint" wherever I can. Also, a few days ago, I tried to look for information about fainting by doing ctrl+f "faint" and couldn't find anything because the article said "knocked out" instead, so what I wanted took me a few minutes longer to find. I eventually made that edit in attempt to save time for anyone who might attempt the same thing in the future. [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 15:03, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
:That sounds like a problem specifically for you. We are not going to cater the site whenever you face a problem. "Knocked out" carries the same meaning as "fainted", like what else could it possibly mean.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 15:21, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
::The reasons why "fainted" is better than "knocked out", however insignificant, exist. Is there a reason why "knocked out" is better than "fainted"? And aren't we supposed to use technical terms over "fanmade terms" whenever possible? [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 23:25, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
:::Neither is better, but both '''mean the same thing in spirit''' (unable to battle). It's not a necessary change. And "knocked out" is not "fan made" it's just a word used to substitute "fainted". Using a word that is not official doesn't make the word "fan made", that's just being ridiculous. Don't change things because you couldn't find something, just because you couldn't find something doesn't mean everyone else will face the same problem.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 02:57, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
::::If neither is better, why do you care which one the article says? [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 17:28, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
:::::Because it's an '''unnecessary change'''. Just because we use another word other than fainted, doesn't make that word fan-made. Like in a plot synopsis, we're not going to use the term "fainted" every time a Pokémon faints, we're going to use other terms like "knocked out" from time to time. Y'know, have a bit of variety in our articles.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 05:12, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
::::::That section was a game mechanic, not a plot synopsis. Aren't they different? [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 17:45, 1 August 2018 (UTC)
:::::::That's not the point. The point is, '''it's an unnecessary change'''. Stop reading what you want to read. It doesn't matter if it's not using the word "faint". Using another word other than "faint" doesn't make the article more inaccurate. It's just a word. You're thinking too much into it. No one will get confused by the term "knocked out". They'll know what it means.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 05:09, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
:::::I think what Force Fire tries to tell you isn't "don't change specifically this to specifically that", it's rather "don't change '''anything''' if the change doesn't clearly improve the article". The larger the number of edits, the more work there is for the servers; we should only change anything if it's justified. That's why he cares which one of the equally good terms stays — because changing it will unnecessarily overload servers. First come, first served in this case. [[User:Kikugi|Kikugi]] ([[User talk:Kikugi|talk]]) 15:37, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

== Mallow Tsareena Sweet Scent ==

Hi. So in SM082 Mallow's Tsareena does something that some would describe as Sweet Scent, as it has a similar appearance and effect to how the move was used in its pre-evolved forms. PlayerKing95 has removed it because we don't have enough proof, despite the evidence pointing towards it. I, as well as another user, has reached out to him to discuss it. It has been more than a week now and he has ignored multiple messages to resolve this issue, and it is making me think that he will continue to ignore messages because it means the page can't be changed. Could I get some help with this? Thank you. --[[User:Rahl|Rahl]] ([[User talk:Rahl|talk]]) 14:48, 4 August 2018 (UTC)
:I have given him a message. I currently have no strong opinions on this matter, generally we can say it's Sweet Scent because the animation is unlikely to change upon evolution. But I'm interested in what Playerking has to say.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 15:11, 4 August 2018 (UTC)
::Thank you, looks like he finally responded to it. Based on his answer is it safe to put Sweet Scent back on, as there doesn't seem to be an argument against it.--[[User:Rahl|Rahl]] ([[User talk:Rahl|talk]]) 16:14, 4 August 2018 (UTC)
:::Hello again. It's been a couple weeks and I was wondering what the status of Sweet Scent is. Thanks.--[[User:Rahl|Rahl]] ([[User talk:Rahl|talk]]) 13:59, 30 August 2018 (UTC)

== Random question ==

When I type just about anything in the search bar, the autocomplete suggestions always appear in the same order. For example, typing only "user:" always displays "User:Tiddlywinks", "User:Force Fire", "User:Raltseye", "User:SnorlaxMonster", etc. in that order. Do you have any idea what determines that order? [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 04:12, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
:Pretty sure the ordering is just random.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 04:18, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
::If it was completely random, would it still put more active users closer to the top? [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 04:35, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
:::It's probably fixed, random but fixed. The listing probably wouldn't change regardless of how active a user is.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 04:51, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
::::It could be fixed by the most visisted user pages. --[[User:Raltseye|Raltseye]] [[User talk:Raltseye|prata med mej]] 11:00, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

== Reason ==

Could you give a summary rather than only reverting a contribution without reason, that's irritating. {{unsigned|KyleRGiggs}}

:He's reverting you because this is the mandatory writing style for a recurring character in the anime and you're pointlessly changing it at [[Professor Burnet]]. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 04:45, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
::Exactly. Your reasoning for removing it didn't even make sense, and if you actually read other anime character articles, other recurring characters also use the term "reappears".--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 04:51, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
:::So DID both of you read the article CAREFULLY why "Since their marriage, Burnet has moved in with Kukui and Ash and '''has made regular appearances''' in the Sun & Moon series ever since." is present in the sentence? So why don't Professor Kukui being "reappear" for every episode? Regular appearancing should not be recurring? I don't get the sense. {{unsigned|KyleRGiggs}}
::::Just because someone makes regular appearances, doesn't mean we can't use the word "reappear". Besides, the two don't appear that regularly, especially for Burnet who only appeared once in between SM071-80 (not counting the PokeProblem segment) and Kukui only physically appears four times in that 10 episode span. And sign your comments.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 05:18, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
:::::I did read that sentence. To be honest, that sentence needs to be reworded. As Force Fire said, it's not as regular as that sentence implies. If she did appear "regularly", then she'd actually be a main character, and then the need to list every episode she appears in is diminished. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 05:46, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

== Random stuff ==

Since I last contacted you, I've come up with a few new things to ask every now and then, but they keep slipping my mind when I don't talk about them. Hence why I've decided to dedicate this section of the talk page for subjects that I come up with and need admin help for, which means that I may sometimes come back here when I come up with something new. But anyway, let's get started with the most recent subject I've come up with: the [[Looker]] Bureau post-game story from {{pkmn|X and Y}}. Since the [[Delta Episode]] and [[Episode RR]] have their own pages, shouldn't the Looker Bureau storyline also get its own article? I think it would deserve it. 
Oh, and speaking of new articles: has my suggestion of splitting the Kantonian Gym and Tide Song Hotel into their own location articles been moving forward? Has it received enough approval to actually be done some day? --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 10:17, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
:I did bring them (Kantonian Gym and Tide Song Hotel) up with the other staff members, didn't really come to a solid conclusion. For me, they both appear to have very little information text wise (from what is already there), and what we don't want are articles that are just one paragraph and a whole bunch of templates. I think it'd be good to create them in your userspace to see how the page will look.
:The Looker saga could be made into it's own page. Make on in your userpage so the staff can decide if it's needed.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 05:22, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
::I've created the page for the Kantonian Gym [[User:FinnishPokéFan92/Kantonian Gym|here]], and I also intend to start making the Tide Song Hotel and Looker Bureau pages as soon as I find the time for it. In the meantime, though, there's a couple of other things I would like to bring up.
::Firstly, [[Talk:Serena (game)#Father? (revived)|this talk]] regarding the X and Y rival's father. Evidence heavily suggests that Calem/Serena's father is a Veteran Trainer who can be found in [[Snowbelle City]], but for the last bit of confirmation, we need someone who can read Japanese. Could you ask someone to help with that?
::And secondly... Secondly... Well, this is ''exactly'' why I should come here to vent ideas out of my head more often. I've forgotten my second point. Embarrassing, I know, but I'll come back to it once I remember it.
::--[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 07:22, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
::Ah, I remember now! Some time ago, I created a category for {{cat|Legendary and Mythical Pokémon locations}}, my intention being to have it attached to the {{template|legendarylocations}} template. However, said template is protected, so I'd need help from a user like you to put it there. Could you do it? --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 08:59, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
:::I've brought the Kantonian Gym page to the others. There was talks of the Serena's father issue a while back, I think one of the staff members found in game text supporting it, though I asked again to be sure. Navigation templates only need the Navigation template category, the category you provided would go on the actual location pages.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 09:59, 11 August 2018 (UTC)
::::Thanks, looking forward to the results.
::::Yes, it's been proven that the gender pronoun used by the supposed father changes depending on the player character's gender, but we now also have links to two Japanese videos to see if this occurs in the Japanese version too, which could count as the final piece of evidence, and is why we need someone who can understand Japanese to confirm it.
::::I mean like this: <nowiki><includeonly>[[Category:Legendary and Mythical Pokémon locations]]</includeonly></nowiki> When a category is attached to a template like this, it will only apply to the pages where said template is used at, not the template itself. That's what I would like you to do, if possible.
::::--[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 10:56, 11 August 2018 (UTC)
:::::I've now finished the Tide Song Hotel page as well. You can find it [[User:FinnishPokéFan92/Tide Song Hotel|here]]. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 18:20, 11 August 2018 (UTC)
::::::Excuse the delay. The Looker bureau post game story can be made, with the title "Looker events" as that is what it's called in-game, according to another staff member. Haven't gotten much feedback regarding the other stuff that you brought up. I'll keep you updated regarding those.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 07:14, 15 August 2018 (UTC)
:::::::Thanks for the update. Will do. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 08:45, 15 August 2018 (UTC)
::::::::I haven't started working on the Looker evernts yet, but I haven't forgotten about them. In the meantime, though, there's an issue that has been bugging me for years now, which nobody has appparently done anything to fix yet. I'm talking about Generation VI models. Not only are we still missing most VS models from at least one set of the Generation VI core series games, we are also still missing a couple VS models: [[Archie]] and [[Zinnia]] are missing their VS models altogether (they've been using temporary ones for years now), and {{an|Brendan}} and {{an|May}} are missing their VS models with a [[Key Stone|Mega Bracelet]]. I've also wondered if the difference between the {{tc|Team Flare Grunt}}s who are striking a pose and those who aren't would warrant alternate VS models for them, but that's a lesser priority in my books.
::::::::And, as for a more recent case of the same issue, we're still missing several US/UM VS models as well, including the {{tc|Master & Apprentice}} and {{tc|Sparring Partners}} VS models and [[Gladion]]'s VS model with a Z-Power Ring. Could you bring this up with people who could possibly fix these issues? I've tried to do it myself a couple times over the years, but it has never lead to anything. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 09:02, 20 August 2018 (UTC)
::::::::Oh, almost forgot! [[Giovanni]]'s first VS model is a bit dark, and [[Professor Kukui]] is also missing his model with the Z-Power Ring. PS. Has the Serena/Calem father topic been solved? Can it be considered confirmed? --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 11:18, 20 August 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::The VS sprites are something that is still ongoing, it just gets lower and lower on the priority list whenever something new comes around. It's something that will be done, "when" I can't really say for sure. Users are free to upload the models themselves, granted they get it from somewhere that isn't a fan site.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 11:54, 24 August 2018 (UTC)
::::::::::Figures. I'm just a guy who hates incompleteness, so these lingering cases of incompleteness tend to bug me a lot. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 12:17, 24 August 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::::For a while now already, I've been planning a massive edit project, where I go over '''every single''' page with a Stadium and Stadium 2 party template, and change the number of Poké Balls in the template(s) to 3 instead of 6 (since only three of the six Pokémon are always used per battle), as well as remove the word "Pokémon" from the game name, as it isn't that way in any other game party templates either. But that's why I've come here for you this time: in preparation for this project, could you edit {{template|Party/Single}} to include codes for Stadium and Stadium 2 in the game name section? And while we're on the topic of this template, do the Battle Chatelaines alone warrant a combined code for X, Y, OR, and AS, and the few version-exclusive Battle Tree Trainers from Generation VII codes for S/US and M/UM, respectively? PS. I hope you understood that last part. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 17:51, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::::Thanks. I saw you just doing this, and I'm honestly really grateful for it, but in case you didn't know, when we refer to "Pokémon Stadium", the link should go to "[[Pokémon Stadium (English)]]", instead of just "[[Pokémon Stadium]]". --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 07:37, 5 September 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::::Never mind. You noticed that yourself. Sorry. XP --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 07:38, 5 September 2018 (UTC)

{{indent}}Added Stadium/2 to the template. As for changing the Poké Ball number, I'm iffy about it. I get what you're saying, but they still have six possible Pokémon. As for the last request, I assume you mean for the party template?, if so, they're already coded in.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 07:40, 5 September 2018 (UTC)
:Yeah. Personally, I'm inclined to keep the six Poké Balls too, but, as you can see {{DL|Professor Kukui|Battle Royal Dome|here}}, for example, some user(s) apparently think that the number of shown Poké Balls should be equal to the maximum number of Pokémon that can be used from said selection of Pokémon at a time. Hence why most [[Pokémon World Tournament|PWT]] teams have six Balls, since all six Pokémon are used if the [[Triple Battle]] format is in used. Then there's also the case where the pool of possible Pokémon is greater than six, but I can understand that one.
:As for the codes, I meant as in a code of "XYORAS" turning out as "X, Y, Omega Ruby, and Alpha Sapphire", and codes "SUS" and "MUM" turning out as "Sun and Ultra Sun" and "Moon and Ultra Moon", respectively. However, as I said, the former would only apply to the four {{tc|Battle Chatelaine}}s, while the latter ones would only apply for the few [[Battle Tree]] Special Trainers who are version-exclusive, so I wondered if that's a good enough reason for those codes to be created. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 09:26, 5 September 2018 (UTC)
::For the Kukui article, I think the line "Master Rank challenge of the Battle Royal, using three of the following Pokémon" will suffice. If they're confused, then they are just flat out not reading the article. As for the stadium articles, I think a similar line could work.
::Ah I see, I've added the code for those.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 09:45, 5 September 2018 (UTC)
:::Thanks a ton! Now there's nothing stopping me from starting my grand edit project! And it's going to be even easier I expected, thanks to you!
:::Nice work... Except that you made a small typo. You accidentally wrote "SUM" instead of "MUM" for "Moon and Ultra Moon". --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 11:18, 5 September 2018 (UTC)
::::Another small typo found. The link for Stadium 2 leads just to "Pokémon Stadium". You forgot the "2" from the end. Whoops...
::::Also, another unrelated thing: in Pokémon Colosseum, the player character starts the game off with a number of healing items in their Bag. Does this qualify as a method of acquiring these items for their respective articles? --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 16:52, 5 September 2018 (UTC)
:::::Fixed. As for the items, I'd say those count.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 07:02, 6 September 2018 (UTC)
::::::I think we need a link template to make the Alola game links easier to create, as writing "<nowiki>[[Pokémon Sun and Moon|Pokémon Sun, Moon]], [[Pokémon Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon|Ultra Sun, and Ultra Moon]]</nowiki>" for a link version of "Pokémon Sun, Moon, Ultra Sun, and Ultra Moon" again and again can get tiresome, plus it eats up a lot of unnecessary space. I'd do it myself, but I'm not sure how, so I've come to ask for your help again. Can you do it, or at least ask someone else to do it? --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 09:30, 17 September 2018 (UTC)
:::::::Took a while to remember what the template was, but [[Template:Game4]] exists, though I edited it to add USUM. Typing the code <nowiki>{{game4|Sun|Moon|Sun|Moon}}</nowiki> should give you this: {{game4|Sun|Moon|Sun|Moon}}.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 11:54, 19 September 2018 (UTC)
::::::::Thank you! Also, another issue regarding link templates: when adding a link to a Pokémon's alternate form, it's usually written as <nowiki>{{DL|List of Pokémon with form differences|<Pokémon>|<Form name>}}</nowiki>, which, like the previous thing you fixed, is a bit lengthy, especially if done repeatedly. So I've been thinking about the creation of a link template to fix the issue, going something like this: <nowiki>{{form|<Pokémon>|<Form name>}}</nowiki>, which would lead to the correct section of [[List of Pokémon with form differences]], based on the contents of the second slot (the one with <Pokémon> in my example here). Do you think this could/should be made? --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 13:58, 19 September 2018 (UTC)
::::::::Also, I just noticed: your edit on {{template|game4}} was a bit flawed. The "Sun and Moon" part of the link includes the word "Versions", even though it's not supposed to. I saw you fixed this issue regarding the "Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon" part of the link, but it seems you still missed something. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 06:04, 21 September 2018 (UTC)
::::::::Did you miss my above messages? Or have you just been too busy to answer yet? --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 08:55, 26 September 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::I purposely left the "versions" in the first link as I wasn't confident whether adding a switch would mess the template up and mess up other pages that are using the template, so I didn't risk it. I'll bring up to idea for a "form template" to the other staff members, though I think it's a fine idea.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 12:45, 26 September 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::::1) Oh. I see. Well, I've already used the template on a couple pages, so now what? 2) Thank you. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 13:32, 26 September 2018 (UTC)
::::::::::::Just leave the ones you've added. I'll tweak the template in a userspace at some point. As for the form template, [[User:Abcboy/Form|Abcboy]] has already made a template in his userpage, that'll be under consideration.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 13:03, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
{{indent}}Thank you. Also, whoa. It appears that this template idea wasn't as new as I thought. Let's hope it'll finally get mainspaced some day. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 14:04, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
:Thanks for helping me out with {{user|EternalDragonX}}. He also left a reply to your response already, just in case you haven't noticed yet. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 17:45, 2 October 2018 (UTC)
::He still doesn't believe either of us. Could you do something about it? And, if possible, could you continue the talk with him on his page instead of mine? PS. His refusal to use big capital letters in talk pages irks me. I know there's technically nothing wrong with it, but if you see fit to notify him about it too, then please do. If you don't, I won't hold it against you. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 16:18, 3 October 2018 (UTC)
:::A few days ago, he started arguing with me about [[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92#viridian gym|another subject (s)]]. Please help me. I'm seriously growing tired of this. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 18:39, 6 October 2018 (UTC)
::::I'll leave a message on their talk page.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 03:01, 7 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::Thank you. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 05:55, 7 October 2018 (UTC)

== Undoing changes ==

Please, don't revert changes as I add information that a [[Focus Sash]] can be stolen from [[Iris]]' {{p|Haxorus}} during all the battles. I don't want to cause an edit war, but I placed the information in the correct row ({{gameabbrev5|B2W2}}). [[User:TheICTLiker4|TheICTLiker4]] ([[User talk:TheICTLiker4|talk]]) 06:56, 12 August 2018 (UTC)
:And as Finnish said, you don't permanently keep the item. It doesn't count.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 07:14, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

== Status ==

What does "status" mean when used to describe Bulbapedia users? Like, how do we know the difference between "hiatus" and "inactive"? How long of a break counts as a hiatus? What does "X" mean? [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 01:31, 24 August 2018 (UTC)
:If someone is on "hiatus", that means they are away for some time but will return eventually, how long the hiatus is differs between staff members. "Inactive" is detailed {{bp|Inactive Staff|here}}. X denotes someone of high authority, they may not be very active but they are still very important staff members.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 11:54, 24 August 2018 (UTC)
::If someone says he/she/it is on hiatus and doesn't come back, then how long does it usually take for other people to change that person's status to "inactive"? [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 18:18, 24 August 2018 (UTC)
:::That decision is up to the Editor in Chief.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 04:34, 25 August 2018 (UTC)
::::Okay thanks. [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 00:07, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

== Possible inappropriate name ==

Someone under {{user|RAEVEisdumb}} was created after someone called {{user|RAEVE}} was just created. Should it be flagged? '''Ice''' [[User talk:The IceCream|Cream]] 19:43, 24 August 2018 (UTC)
:I've blocked the former but left the latter unblocked. I ''could'' block them both since they both share the same IP, but since RAEVE hasn't done anything yet, I'll leave them unblocked unless they become a problem.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 04:34, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

== PardescanSlowbro again ==

I have tried to offer [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3APardescanSlowbro&type=revision&diff=2840364&oldid=2826236 constructive criticism] on PardescanSlowbro's spelling of "compliment" in [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Tyson_%28Hoenn%29&type=revision&diff=2840264&oldid=2834631 this edit], but once again, he responded with paranoia, a refusal to cooperate, and accusations of edit-stalking ([https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3APardescanSlowbro&type=revision&diff=2840597&oldid=2840364] [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3APardescanSlowbro&type=revision&diff=2840645&oldid=2840640] [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3APardescanSlowbro&type=revision&diff=2840648&oldid=2840647] [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3APardescanSlowbro&type=revision&diff=2840661&oldid=2840649]). In the last diff, he even had the gall to tell me I shouldn't be contacting anyone if that's how I'm going to talk to people. This is in spite of me [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3APardescanSlowbro&type=revision&diff=2840647&oldid=2840645 admitting that my original message unintentionally did not come across as constructive and apologizing for that]. I cannot even talk about the most basic constructive criticism with this guy, and it is so frustrating. I was actually hoping I could have a more in-depth discussion about his writing style in regards to his recent edits, but given that he's always reacting like this in some form or fashion, I cannot muster the courage to talk to him, no matter what the subject is. I can't even properly talk to him about the minor stuff (silly, I know, but I can't even talk to him about the major stuff in the first place). I talk to other users the same way I'm talking to him, yet he's always the one who responds with hostility and vitriol. I'm really not trying to be malicious towards him or anything like that. Can you please comment on this? [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 08:59, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

== Grammarfreak at it again ==
I know, you're very busy. But it seems that Grammarfreak are trying everything to post his/her claim are right. While everyone is wrong. Especially, when he illegally created it voice actress article without admin permission. Especially for trying to make it sounds he taken command of everything. If you can, could you please ban him/her. I tired of his aggression and persistent changing the sentences to be great. Thank you! [[User:Singaporean|Singaporean]] ([[User talk:Singaporean|talk]]) 02:57, 5 September 2018 (UTC)

:[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3ASingaporean&type=revision&diff=2843736&oldid=2839035 I already told you], I didn't know you already had a userspace article for [[Sumire Morohoshi]] in the works, and I'm sorry about that! That aside, how is that "illegal"? I admitted it was a mistake caused by a lazy eye. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 03:18, 5 September 2018 (UTC)
:: You know, you create with one article after another without admin permission is already officially illegal. That is also included disrespectful to me after all the hard work, I have done and learns to make a better article. But it seems that, you had a history of pattern aggressive toward everybody. I wasn't surprised, your primary target now is me. It wasn't take every long in a next few day. You will ditch my all my userspace edited and try to create one to waste more page to fill in the empty to draw attention to everyone. Remind you again, this is not your playground of editing. [[User:Singaporean|Singaporean]] ([[User talk:Singaporean|talk]]) 03:28, 5 September 2018 (UTC)
:::A while back, I [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/User_talk:Tiddlywinks#Creating_Japanese_voice_actor_articles asked] {{U|Tiddlywinks}} about the process of creating VA articles, and they directed me to [[Bulbapedia:Project VA]] without mentioning anything else. The main project page ''never'', ''EVER'' said anything about having to consult with the admins first before the creation of an individual article, and trust me, I read through that thing thoroughly. I've been at this since last month, and no one has given me any warnings or blocked me for creating so many VA articles during that time. This is in comparison to [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/User_talk:GrammarFreak01/Archive_1#Creating_pages the warning I got] from Tiddlywinks hours after I created the [[Ash's Pikachu (M20)]] article (which was what motivated me to ask Tiddlywinks about the VA articles in the first place). Because of all that, I took it that my actions were already cleared by Tiddlywinks and I didn't even have to worry about asking the admins any further.

:::If it was supposed to be common sense for me to just alert the admins about the creation of any kind of article beforehand, then I do apologize for that. I was simply following everything that was laid out for me at [[Bulbapedia:Project VA]], with the misconception that Tiddlywinks was alright with everything simply because I contacted him only once before my article creation spree. And ''trust me'', I am now reviewing all of the other userspace articles you've got so I will know which VAs you are already working on. I'm so sorry if you felt cheated and that your hard work on the Morohoshi userspace article was wasted because of me. I swear, I was not aware of that userspace article, and that is not going to happen again, I promise. Especially now that you've got your own eye on me and my conduct. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 03:48, 5 September 2018 (UTC)
::::Regardless of your apologize to me or not. The action will be leave to [[User:Force Fire|Force Fire]] to dealt with. Even though of the risk for me being banned one more time again. I also satisfied. [[User:Singaporean|Singaporean]] ([[User talk:Singaporean|talk]]) 03:57, 5 September 2018 (UTC)
:::::I'm well aware that it's all up to Force Fire, given the severity of your complaints against me. I'm just trying to explain what you would call my more egregious actions. I at least have that right to do so, don't I? [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 03:59, 5 September 2018 (UTC)

GrammarFreak already clarified that he didn't see your userpage, Singaporean. No need to overreact the way you did. He apologized, move on. Anyone can create a VA article, granted that it fits the notability criteria. Users can make it on the mainspace, '''only if''' they are capable of making it up to Bulbapedia standards upon making the article (to which I feel GrammarFreak did). And don't take that as an invitation to create VA article on the mainspace, Singaporean.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 07:18, 5 September 2018 (UTC)
:If you say so, then I will go ahead and create all my remaining work directly without the need of my userspace. Thanks. [[User:Singaporean|Singaporean]] ([[User talk:Singaporean|talk]]) 12:30, 5 September 2018 (UTC)
::No. I '''did not''' say you can make them in the mainspace. I literally said it in my response. The ones you made on your userspace still needs to be approved. And that is '''NOT''' how you move userpages to the mainspace.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 12:59, 5 September 2018 (UTC)
:::My apologized for my rush work. I didn't know about it. It is already almost a year and I didn't heard anything about you and the other approved my work to main article is just really frustrating. I do hope, you can give me an answer after a few days later. Thank you! [[User:Singaporean|Singaporean]] ([[User talk:Singaporean|talk]]) 13:05, 5 September 2018 (UTC)

== A strange user talk page ==

Hello and sorry if I'm bothering you, but I started to wonder, if such content as [[User talk:CarterLumpkins|this]] is OK to have on one's user talk page. This doesn't seem to aggressively promote some service, thought it does have a weblink. However, the topic is so NOT Pokémon... is this allowed? Is this evidence of a spammer? The user page was created three minutes before the talk page. Thank you! [[User:Kikugi|Kikugi]] ([[User talk:Kikugi|talk]]) 12:33, 6 September 2018 (UTC)
:Dealt with. Those are usually spambots.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 12:55, 6 September 2018 (UTC)

== Search bar problems ==

I just started having a problem with the search bar at the left of my screen. Every time I type something in, it won't show me a list of options, and every time I try to look up a list of pages containing a certain word(s), it won't show the lists. Instead, there's a message that reads, "An error has occurred while searching: We could not complete your search due to a temporary problem. Please try again later." I definitely know I'm not misspelling anything. What's going on with that? [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 04:15, 9 September 2018 (UTC)
:Staff are aware of the issue and will try to get to the bottom of it asap.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 05:01, 9 September 2018 (UTC)
::Okay. That's good to know. Thanks for the heads-up. :) [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 05:06, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

== Internal error ==

Occasionally, since about last week, I've been getting these "Internal error" messages every time I try to submit an edit. I manage to get through it, but the frequency of these messages is starting to increase and I don't know what's going on. This is an example of the "Internal error" message I tend to get.

[8e5e0cf8d713375f0b2bb8b3] 2018-09-17 04:55:29: Fatal exception of type "Error"

Would you mind getting to the bottom of this? Thank you. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 04:57, 17 September 2018 (UTC)

:I'm still getting these messages with intensifying frequency. Here's the latest one:

[d52bf67181c53700b65c1f44] 2018-09-18 04:52:01: Fatal exception of type "Error"

:[[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 04:53, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
::Staff are aware of the issues and are looking into it.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 05:58, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
:::Thank you. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 19:19, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

::::I'm not sure what's being done to rectify this problem, nor do I presume to know, but for the record, I'm still having these problems. Here's the latest one I got:

[39026dee922ac834907c8f6e] 2018-09-20 07:23:46: Fatal exception of type "Error"

::::[[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 07:25, 20 September 2018 (UTC)

:::::My apologies, but this problem is still happening for me. Is the staff still investigating the issue? Or did they think they found a solution and implemented it already? Not that I doubt anyone's effectiveness in this matter. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 23:43, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
::::::Still haven't heard back on whether the problem was fixed or not, but I'll ping the higher ups about the issue.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 04:31, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::::Okay, thanks. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 04:45, 13 October 2018 (UTC)

== Transfer-only moves and ability changes ==

Can we add a section to every Pokemon page that lists all the moves the Pokemon can know only if it originated in an earlier generation (move tutors, old TMs, etc.)? Cross-checking multiple pages for this information is annoying. Second, can we change the Pokemon infobox template to make pages like {{p|Pelipper}} clear that Pelipper can't have drizzle in Generations 3-6? [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 18:06, 24 September 2018 (UTC)

== Zlblosser18 ==

A little heads-up, it looks like in spite of [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AZlblosser18&type=revision&diff=2853997&oldid=2853990 your advice], Zlblosser18 is still [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Charmander_%28Pok%C3%A9mon%29&type=revision&diff=2855104&oldid=2855092 removing templates]. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 20:22, 30 September 2018 (UTC)

:It also seems like they're disregarding [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Zlblosser18&diff=prev&oldid=2855095 my advice] that titles like [[Pokémon Origins]] and [[Pokémon Generations]] are not traditionally italicized here. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 20:25, 30 September 2018 (UTC)
::Looks like TiddlyWinks has given them a final warning. --[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 04:33, 1 October 2018 (UTC)
:::Seems like it. I'll withdraw the complaint, then. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 05:02, 1 October 2018 (UTC)

== floor order cont ==

im confused, youre saying the ordering will be RBY>GSC>FRLG>HGSS regardless of floor order? so do you mean list all rby items before gsc or put them together if there are two items on the same floor? yes, i am using common sense by not putting an item deep in the dungeon first, but what if said deep item were to be on one of the earlier floors if not the earliest? then floor order dictates i would have to list said item before many of the other items i pass by before i even get to it. thats why floor order is bad. i know were not a walkthrough, but we have to list the items in one way or another, and like you said, it should make sense atleast right? I understand that it is not a "high" priority. but if i can list in an order that makes sense, why not? is floor order really a higher priority? again im trying to say that floor order is bad. --[[User:EternalDragonX|EternalDragonX]] ([[User talk:EternalDragonX|talk]]) 12:58, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
:Yes, the game order will still be the same regardless of the template going by floor order. If an items exist in more than one set of games and is in the same location, the games get put together.
:Just so we're on the same page here, when you say "deep" you mean tucked in the furthest part of the first floor, right? Because there's no way the place I just described could be the first thing you come across. If you mean if the player traverses from the opposite end (say Victory Road, Pokemon League entrance to Route 22 entrance), then that's not really important. The location ordering should be from the player's first run through of the area (so Route 22 to Pokemon League).
:Sorting by floor order helps users see what items are available at a certain floor in one grouping. It'd actually be ''more'' confusing if the listing were to alternate between "Floor 1" and "Floor 2", especially if there's suddenly a "Basement floor" in between them.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 14:43, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
::may i suggest instead of RBY>GSC>FRLG>HGSS, that it be RBY>FRLG>GSC>HGSS? because rby frlg are basically the same games and a lot of the time they will have items that are common to all of them, but also a lot of the time frlg will have some new items, and shoving gsc items in between would not only look weird, but confusing.
::yes i mean for example tucked away in a place on the first floor that also serves as the back exit. therefore in a regular playthrough, most players would pick up said item last, since you run by every other item before it. victory road is a perfect example of what im talking about. of course i wouldnt list the items as if they were going from indigo plateau to route 22. that makes no sense. if you look at the list: https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Victory_Road_(Kanto)#Items i list guard spec ultra ball and full restore on floor 2 after overheat on floor 3. why? because those 3 items are grouped in an area in floor 2 that can only be accessible after passing through the entirety of floor 3; the area in this case being the exit. so in my head, this ordering makes perfect sense. blindly following floor order would mean i would list these items before the max revive, which again i dont think makes much sense since we talked about how they literally cant be come acrossed before the floor 3 items. --[[User:EternalDragonX|EternalDragonX]] ([[User talk:EternalDragonX|talk]]) 18:11, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
:::Any unpredictable order is bad. A reasonable person would generally expect to see everything for a floor together. If I see several items that start with something like 1F, 2F, 1F, 3F, 5F (or whatever), it just looks messy to me. Nothing that extreme may occur in the games, but that's what your logic would demand. (And less extreme examples are still messy IMO.)
:::It's not exactly hard to look back to the "end" of a floor if there were items you just couldn't get to when you passed through the first part (if floors are grouped). But if floors aren't grouped, then if I see several items starting with "2F" and then that turns into "3F", I'm gonna think those were all the items on 2F in the list, and that can be very confusing. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 00:34, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
::::altho i still believe that 1F, 2F, 1F, 3F, 5F (or whatever) would be better if it made sense that you'd get the items that way, i have argued my point to the fullest and i can respect it if you disagree. however, still waiting on you force fire to answer my question about listing the items in region order rather than game order. aka kanto>johto>hoenn etc. over rby>gsc>frlg etc. --[[User:EternalDragonX|EternalDragonX]] ([[User talk:EternalDragonX|talk]]) 00:57, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::Ordering the games by RBY>FRLG>GSC>HGSS is fine, some (or a majority of) articles are like this.
:::::So we are talking about the same thing, that brings up the question of why you are concerned about having to place an item that is deep in a dungeon as the first item. As I said, the order should be listed on the players first run through of the area. You don't need to worry about those that'll traverse the opposite way.
:::::As for items that can only be accessed via another floor, group those under all the other Floor 2 items and say in the descriptor that it requires traversing through Floor 3. Putting those items below Floor 3 makes it a touch confusing, and also a bit walkthrough-ish. I guess it's just me being condescending, but players should be able figure that stuff (having to traverse through floor 3 to get to some floor 2 items) for themselves. And ass TiddlyWinks said, listing the items by floor looks much more cleaner and easier on the eyes.
:::::Also, I saw and checked that you changed the template to be one big listing rather than separate listings. Maybe that should've been discussed first before making the edit. --[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 04:47, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
::::::i am concerned about having to place an item that is deep as the first item because if for example it was one of, if not the only, items on the first accessible floor (say floor 1), but not accessible unless you traverse one of the other floors (say floor 2), then we gotta list it first even tho you probably get the other items on floor 2 before it. you already answered this in your 3rd paragraph. like i said to tiddlywinks if u guys feel like floor order is cleaner then fine. i also like your solution of putting in the descriptor that it requires traversing through floor 3. i think ill do that. --[[User:EternalDragonX|EternalDragonX]] ([[User talk:EternalDragonX|talk]]) 14:33, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
::::::about putting in the descriptor that obtaining an item requires traversing another floor.. would you just list that as a sentence at the end? or would you like put it in an asterisk at the end? --[[User:EternalDragonX|EternalDragonX]] ([[User talk:EternalDragonX|talk]]) 15:24, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::::Examples of these sorts of explanations/directions can be seen on pages like [[Frost Cavern]], [[Victory Road (Kalos)]], and [[Haina Desert]]. The descriptions should be easily readable, which tooltips are not (mobile users cannot read them at all AFAIK). The only reason to consider a tooltip would be if the detail is exceptionally long. (Because a very long description is, itself, also not the most readable thing.) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 01:24, 6 October 2018 (UTC)

== Satomi Kōrogi ==

I need help moving the [[Satomi Kōrogi]] article. The romanization seems to prefer using Satomi K'''oo'''rogi instead but I am unable to move the article because of a redirect interfering. Thank you. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 22:33, 6 October 2018 (UTC)
:Moved.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 03:01, 7 October 2018 (UTC)
::Thanks! :D [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 03:18, 7 October 2018 (UTC)

== Transfer-only moves and ability changes ==

Can we add a section to every Pokemon page that lists all the moves the Pokemon can know only if it originated in an earlier generation (move tutors, old TMs, etc.)? Cross-checking multiple pages for this information is annoying. Second, can we change the Pokemon infobox template to make pages like {{p|Pelipper}} clear that Pelipper can't have drizzle in Generations 3-6? [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 20:34, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
:I personally see no need in listing transferable moves, it's common sense. Of course a Pokémon that only knows X move in Gen III is going to know it if you transfer it to a Gen vII game. And it's really not much of a nuisance. Want a to know a Pokémon's moveset from a specific generation? go to the separate learnlists. Want a specific move? go to the specific move article. It's not ''that'' annoying.
:The infobox templates is currently in discussions of an update. The update will accommodate having more abilities listed. Have patience.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 07:05, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
::The whole purpose of learnset sections was to put every move that a Pokemon can know in one place, right? If the learnset sections are not doing that, what other purpose do they have? [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 19:47, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
:::It's to list moves a Pokémon can learn in the '''current''' generation. Transferring moves isn't exactly "learning a move by level up or breeding in Generation VII". If a Pokémon can only learn a move in a previous generation, go to that generation's learnset or the move's article. You're only clicking one link, not 500. It's not as mundane as you're making it out to be.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 04:29, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
::::It appears to me you're just saying how another question is easy to answer.
::::If you're seriously interested in this (not just stalling), let me suggest (with best intentions) to just try to answer "What moves can Pikachu '''''know''''' in a copy of, say, USUM?" by browsing Bulbapedia. I currently need more than 5 minutes, and I would consider this ''the'' central use case, and probably the most important question for competitive play. (It's not even easy to be confident the resulting list was exhaustive, so if you'd like, you may even post your list here, and let me see if I have any more.) [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 09:46, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::Saying "what can Pikachu learn in USUM" is literally the same as saying "what can Pikachu learn in Gen VII". Not Gen II. Not Gen IV. Saying a specific game means you're looking for a learnset from a specific generation. And it certainly does not take "more than 5 minutes" to find what you want. If you know what you're looking for, you have a Pokémon and move/generation in mind, it should only take you one minute top. A few clicks. You're not going to be scouring the entire site just to look for one move.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 11:43, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
::::::Neither of these question were asked, you just continue to answer them.
::::::Pikachu can ''know'' moves in USUM that it cannot ''learn'' in USUM, {{m|Mega Kick}}, for example. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 12:10, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::::It's called a learnlist for a reason, moves a Pokémon can learn in a game or generation. Of course it'll know a move from a previous generation if you transfer it to a current game, that does not need to be spelled out. No one is going to think that it won't know the move once they transfer the Pokémon. If users want to know what moves it can learn previously, they can browse the site.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 12:24, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
{{indent}}I'm not sure you understand me/us (or even try to, really). So, just for me to get this clear: Are you saying that, in your opinion, a) the question "What moves can <species> '''''know''''' in <game/generation>?" is not relevant, not worthwhile for Bulbapedia to easily provide an answer to, and that b) species pages should only provide moves a Pokémon can ''learn'' in the current generation? [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 14:14, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
:It's not hard to find what you're looking for, all you're doing is clicking on one link, totaling up to a few seconds. If you had to go through page after page, I can get why it'd be annoying or hard. But it's not.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 14:39, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
::I'm beginning to feel confident you're just stalling. I'm asking questions, I don't get answers.
::I'll just continue trying to keep this simple: Please list all moves Pikachu can know (in a USUM game). If it's not hard, I'd be glad to hear that it's easily possible using Bulbapedia (and preferably also how). Also (and in particular if you're unable or unwilling to list all of Pikachu's moves), please answer the two questions I just asked, a) and b). [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 15:02, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
:::Bulbapedia is not a strategy guide. Comp is not our focus.
:::You're highlighting comp as your reason for a promoting "moves a [species] can know" angle. But there's a bunch of comp stuff we're never going to do. We're not doing tier lists. We're not gonna tell you what "good" movesets are. Comp is no reason that we would "have" to accomodate anything.
:::That's not to say we're thoroughly hostile to a list of "legacy" moves.
:::But kind of like ForceFire has said, learnlists ARE for what a Pokemon can learn ''within'' a generation. It doesn't ''strictly'' make sense to include "legacy" moves; that's a concern that comes from a pretty specific focus like comp/challenges.
:::Yes, it would be somewhat easier if we had a list of legacy moves. But (to repeat myself) that's not necessarily our focus and you ''can'' figure the information out if you really need to.
:::(And to repeat myself once more, we're not hostile to a legacy move list. I just can't tell you if/when it might happen at the moment.) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 15:39, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
::::Thanks, Tiddlywinks.
::::I may be highlighting comp as the use case, and/but I know it's not our focus, I don't do so because I want to promote comp or anything. What I'm basically trying to do is rephrase Sumwun's question of what use case species (or learnset) pages currently try to serve; basically, why are they there, what are they supposed to easily provide an answer to:
::::"What move can <species> ''learn'' in <game/generation>?" may be equally sensible/important, but if the pages were focused (solely/primarily) on that, there would be no need to have an "By events" subsection (to a lesser extent, probably not even "By breeding"), and I think we can all agree that this information is valuable/sensible. What I'm thinking, and what I believe Sumwun thinks, is that a "By transfer from a prior generation" subsection is equally valuable/sensible.
::::Anyway, I know how that's a hassle to create or even design, and I'm not forcing it. But I'd like to stress that Sumwun's suggestion, in my opinion, is far from focusing on some weird, minor edge case, and is providing benefit. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 16:17, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::"Please list Pikachu's moves in USUM". Just go to its page. It's right ''there''. Want to know it's previous moves, go click on ''one'' link. Easy. And I'm answering sumwun's reasoning of "cross checking multiple pages is annoying", since he's the one that stated this conversation. All you're trying to do is justify sumwun's laziness.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 16:49, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
::::::Right now, I can't just click one link. Depending on how old a Pokemon is, I may need to click 1-6 links, load 1-6 learnset pages, and scan 2-25 sections. I would consider reducing this to 0 clicks and 1 section a big and worthwhile improvement. If this kind of laziness is unjustified, why do we have any learnset pages at all? We might as well be saying, "Want to know whether <Pokemon> can learn <move>? Load ''one'' move article and do ''one'' ctrl f. Easy."
::::::By the way, I would also like to know the answers to Nescientist's 2 questions. [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 22:05, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::::That's an exaggeration. If you know what you're looking for, it'll only taking you one-two clicks. You can't be searching for what move a Pokemon can learn previously without a set goal. You're playing Ultra Sun, but you want to know what it can learn in '''Diamond''' version. Diamond is the key word which equates to '''Gen IV'''. So you're already looking for its Gen IV learnset. Go to its page and click on Gen IV. Done.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 11:54, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
::::::::I have moved this discussion to [[Bulbapedia talk:Project Pokédex/Structure#Adding moves available only by transfer from an earlier generation|a more public place]], so others have an easier opportunity to chime in (and so that possibly, ForceFire doesn't receive as much email notifications about messages not directed to them directly).
::::::::ForceFire, the question "What moves can Pikachu know in USUM?" does not include "Diamond", and [[Pikachu (Pokémon)]] does not mention Mega Kick. I have detailed some more about what pages you'd need to traverse where I have continued the discussion I'm interested in.
::::::::Tiddlywinks, I have addressed some of your comments there, and would appreciate to get to know your opinions. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 12:18, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::Pikachu cannot '''learn''' Mega Kick in USUM (hence why it's not there at first glance), but it can know it if you transfer it from another game (which is common sense, of course it's going to know Mega Kick if you transfer it, the game isn't going to force it to forget the move).
:::::::::I just gave an example of how it only take one-two clicks to find what you're looking for. And you misinterpreted my example. If you're thinking of a certain game, you're automatically thinking of a certain generation. Go to the page and click on that specific generation.
:::::::::You can convince me to change my mind, but so far, "it's too hard, annoying, and boring to sift through a few pages" is not convincing enough to change my mind.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 12:28, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
::::::::::I don't understand. Please name the page(s) I need to answer "What moves can Pikachu '''''KNOW''''' in USUM?". [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 12:31, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
{{indent}}When you say "know" you're saying what it can learn via other means, and that includes transfer. The pages are the previous gen learnset pages, those are the moves Pikachu can know in USUM if you were to transfer it to USUM. Honestly...--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 12:35, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
:And those are six, plus Pikachus page, that's seven. (I even mentioned other difficulties at the other page.) It's not easy, it's hard. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 12:37, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
::If you have a game in mind, you have a generation in mind. You mentioned Mega Kick, Pikachu can only learn it in Gen I, III, and VI. So you're '''ONLY''' going to click '''one''' of those link, not the other links. Why would you. You already have the generation you need, you don't need to click on the others. If someone is unsure of the generation, they would look through the move article and ctrl+f "Pikachu".
::It's like if I wanted to watch a certain Johto league episode, but I don't know which number it is. I'm not going to watch the entirety of the XY series, I'm going to look through the Johto arc.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 12:44, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
:::You're exactly right there, but you're answering "Can Pikachu know Mega Kick in USUM?", not "What moves can Pikachu know in USUM?". I have no prior knowledge that Mega Kick is a possible solution. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 12:47, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
::::If you don't have a move in mind, then you have a previous generation in mind (to transfer from). If you have neither in mind, then you're not really looking for "what move can Pikachu know in USUM".--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 12:51, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::I'm positive that I have neither in mind, and that I am looking for "what moves can Pikachu know in USUM". [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 13:22, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
::::::Then you're not transferring then. The only other viable option of wanting to know what moves Pikachu can ''know'' is events, since everything else it learns, and events are already listed.
::::::If you're transferring Pokémon, you already have either a generation or move in mind. You're either thinking "I want to transfer Pikachu from <game>, but am not sure what it can learn in that game", which you then click on the '''appropriate''' generation moveset. Or you're thinking "I know Pikachu can learn <move> in a previous generation, but I don't know what game", which you then go to the move page and ctrl+f PIkachu.
::::::If you're not thinking of neither of those, then you aren't looking to transfer Pokémon.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 13:46, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::::I'm not thinking of a specific generation. I want to know the answer to "What moves can Pikachu know in USUM".
:::::::I can post some ''more special'' questions that require the same page traversion, such as "Can Pikachu know a sleep-inducing move?" (i.e., can I get a Pikachu on my copy of USUM with a sleep-inducing move, by whatever means?"), or "What is the most powerful move Magikarp may know in USUM?" (i.e., what's the maximum base power for any move a Magikarp may know in USUM, by whatever means).
:::::::These should be questions you may understand better. Please try to answer them. (If you do, you will find out that you won't find the answers at the species pages alone.) [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 15:50, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
::::::::If we are expected to be able to go to the move page and ctrl f the Pokemon's name for transfer-only moves, why are we not expected to do that for all moves? Why do we have full lists of level up moves and TM moves for each Pokemon?
::::::::By the way, another example of a question that would become a lot easier is, "What are all the ways I can get a Golem that knows a physical attack that is strong against psychic?" [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 22:20, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
{{indent}}Nescientist... what do you mean by "know"? Because a Pokémon can "know" a move via transfer or events. If you have neither a generation or move in mind, then you are '''''not''''' transferring. You are just blindly going through pages for no reason. If you're question ends so vaguely at "What moves can Pikachu know in USUM", then I don't know what you're looking for because you're not explaining the method. It's either "What can Pikachu know in USUM '''via transfer'''" or "What can Pikachu know in USUM '''via events'''". If you're talking about transfers, then I've already answered that many times.

Wanting to know what "sleep inducing moves" or "highest possible power" is competitive fluff. We are not a strategy guide. Casual gamers aren't going to care about that stuff. A casual gamer is going to want to know what moves their Pokemon can know in the game they have in their hands without outside influence (i.e. transfer or events). They're not going to care about sleep inducing move or highest based power. Not everyone is a competitive player.

Sumwun, don't be difficult. I don't even know what you're talking about. If you have a '''''move''''' in mind, go to the move page and ctrl+f. If you have a '''''game''''' in mind, go to the appropriate learnset page. You are '''''not''''' going to be looking through the learnsets to look for a single move. No one is going to do that. '''''No one''''' is going to blindly look through six learnsets looking for just one move, when they can just go to the move article itself. It's not that hard. I don't think you understand what the different kinds templates are for, and assuming they're all do the same thing.

You're Golem question, like Nescientist's "sleep inducing" question is competitive fluff. Again, we are not a strategy guide. And your question was '''even more vague'''. What is the method you seek? level up? breeding? TM? what? Be more specific in your searches. I like to think users are browsing the site fully aware of what they are looking for, not exact but an idea of what they are looking for. By the sounds of it, you're browsing the site without a single thing in mind. It stops at "What can Golem learn/know" rather than specifying "What can Golem learn/know via this specific method".--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 04:31, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
:I already rephrased what it means when I do not specify: it means "by whatever means", which means at all, by level-up or events or transfer or ''anything'' else. Moves a Pokémon may know in USUM. I'm explicitly ''not'' saying "by transfer only" (or anything else), I don't know why you insist I need to say that; because that is not what I'm asking.
:Anyway, you seem to have understood that my specific questions (and Sumwun's) are hard to answer, not easy. (Which is good, because that's why I mentioned them; my original question is ''more general''.)
:I would object to your take that it's only competitive fluff (and I did so [[Bulbapedia talk:Project Pokédex/Structure#Adding moves available only by transfer from an earlier generation|here]]). What do you think casual gamers would be looking for? If you're excluding what you call "competitive fluff", do you think they would need "By breeding"? (If so, why?) [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 16:33, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
::If nobody goes through learnset pages for moves, what do people use them for?
::Transfer-only moves are not competitive fluff or strategy guides. They are real Pokemon information that is true even when nobody is competitive battling and is not at all fan-made, but they simply happen to be more useful to competitive battlers. If this kind of information isn't allowed on Bulbapedia, why do we have a page called "World Championships", which is pretty much the definition of competitive battling? [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 03:10, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
:::Nescientist: This discussion is about transfer moves, so I assume you're talking about and looking for transfer moves. If you're looking for "anything at all", then you're not looking for anything specific so the '''bare minimum''' is already on the species article, you do not need to click on anything else. Everything it can know at '''bare minimum''' is ''right there''.
:::I didn't even answer both of your questions. I basically said that they are irrelevant because we are not a strategy guide. We're not going to say "This Pokemon can know this move which is X power" because that is competitive fluff and strategy guide-ish. No casual gamer is going to think that specifically.
:::I just said what casual gamers are looking for "'''things their Pokemon can learn normally within the game they have in their hands, without outside influence like transfers and events'''". This includes, level up moves, TMs, and such. Breeding is game mechanic and should be listed, I don't regard it as competitive fluff.
:::Sumwun: I don't think you understand how these things work. People look through the learnsets to look for moves '''''from a specific game or generation'''''. They are looking for the '''entire moveset''', not just one move. '''The entire moveset'''. If you're looking for one move, go to the move article. Looking for a moveset for a specific game, look through the learnset. It's not that hard to understand.
:::"World Championships" is an article detailing an event. It's not detailing strategies. It's not detailing what moves would be better. It's not detailing which Pokemon would be better. It's just detailing the event. Again, it's like you have no idea what that article is about.
:::It's real information, yes. But it can be seen by going through the moveset pages, because like I said, someone looking to transfer their Pokemon over so they can have a Pokemon with a move they can no longer learn, already have a game or move in mind. They are not blindly looking through pages.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 06:23, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
::::Just going to put my 2 cents in here (I'm not strongly for nor against):
::::1) Firstly, I think an important question that needs to be answered first is: Does a section on transfer-only moves have any role outside of the competitive field? All the examples raised at the moment have all been competitive play-oriented which I agree shouldn't be Bulbapedia's focus. I can think of one question where a transfer-only moves section ''could'' help with (e.g. "A Corsola I received from a trade has Whirlpool, Sucker Punch, and Secret Power. Is it hacked?" - although it wouldn't be too hard to find this information elsewhere + it is quite a specific question).
::::2) Another point that should be discussed is that some (albeit a small number of) moves may not be obvious to some users whether they can be transferred or not - e.g. inability to transfer most HMs, ability to transfer from VC, ability to transfer certain HMs (e.g. Defog, Whirlpool)
::::3) Lastly, I should note that a transfer-only moves section is likely to be longer than most will think (esp. as most of it is made up of moves which lost their TM status in a new gen) - though the length isn't as important --[[User:Wowy|'''Wowy''']][[User talk:Wowy|'''(토크)''']] 07:01, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::i don't think your example is all that great, because force fire is going to say you would just look up the move pages of each of those individual moves and ctrl f for corsola. an example i could think of which is pretty niche, but possible i think, is "im dead set on having a corsola for my playthrough of ultra sun. i want it to have the best movelist possible; im willing to transfer from prev gens to do so. is there a quick way i can get a list of all those moves without having to go through all the pages?" so imo this new section for moves learned from prev gens isnt useless; theres definitely a benefit. i think the question is, is it worth it.
:::::if you ARE going through the lists of previous gens, you already know what you ARENT looking for: every move learnable from the current gen. although i dont think going through lists for new moves requires THAT much work, i dont think the work is negligible either. --[[User:EternalDragonX|EternalDragonX]] ([[User talk:EternalDragonX|talk]]) 07:47, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
::::::Yes, I completely agree with you (maybe I should have made that more clear). I was just trying to give an example of a question which would be less competitive play-oriented (because the examples already given are not), and I as I said, the information could easily be found elsewhere --[[User:Wowy|'''Wowy''']][[User talk:Wowy|'''(토크)''']] 08:48, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::::I don't know how I can be any clearer, but the question is "What are moves Pikachu can know in USUM", i.e. by whatever means; it is not, I repeat, NOT something else. The species page alone does not answer it: you need that and ''all'' previous generation learnsets, at minimum. (And that's all I'm saying, basically. I believe you, ForceFire, finally understood that.)
:::::::Wowy, I believe it would only be beneficial if you presented your opinion at [[Bulbapedia talk:Project Pokédex/Structure#Adding moves available only by transfer from an earlier generation|that other talk page]] (maybe even answered my question there). Anyway, I'm just gonna address your points here:
:::::::1. I wouldn't know how any question about moves would not have at least some relevance to competitive play; battles and moves are a central concept of the Pokémon franchise, and anyone who plays Pokémon should have some interest in competitive play. It's a different thing to talk about serious competitive battlers (like, those who maintain tier lists and whatnot), though; and I think they wouldn't really care what the answer to my two questions are (but I could be mistaken, because again, I'm not a competitive player myself). The Swinub I mentioned at that other page was purely non-competitive in that sense, too; I used it for a playthrough. As an aside, I guess the section I propose wouldn't necessarily answer your type of "legal" question; for example, a section would include both {{m|Pay Day}} and {{m|Mimic}} for Pikachu, but a Pikachu that knows both moves simultaneously would still be illegal (I think that's similar to how the current "By breeding" section cannot answer whether two Egg Moves at the same time are legal.)
:::::::2. I already said that at that other page when I explained that it is even harder to find out than I initially thought. (A "By transfer" section will ''not'' necessarily include all moves a Pokémon may have known at some earlier game (Pikachu ''can'' know {{m|Petal Dance}}, for example, but ''not'' in USUM by any means such as transfer); therefore, I also don't think Tiddlywinks' choice of the word "legacy moves" was exact for my proposal.)
:::::::3. I'm not sure it will be that long, but as you said, it shouldn't really matter.
:::::::Sumwun: I ''do'' understand what you're saying (and I agree), but you seem to derail the discussion with some of your more provocative questions (ForceFire never said Bulbapedia shouldn't cover anything that has anything to do with competitive play, for example). I hope that's not your intention, let's try to keep it simple. :)
:::::::ForceFire, moves listed under "By breeding" are not covered by the text you bolded (and by the way, in my opinion, those are about as much "competitive fluff" as "By transfer" is), "By events" even less. I think you didn't answer whether you think casual gamers would need "By breeding"!? (Or did you? I'm still - seriously - trying to get to the bottom of what you think move sections should cover and why.) [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 16:57, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
::::::::You didn't even read what I wrote, because I already answered that in my previous response. And I know it's an outright lie when you say you don't have a game or generation in mind, because the question is "What can Pikachu know in '''USUM'''". You've singled out '''USUM'''. That is that game you have in mind. And since you're not looking for anything specific, just the bare minimum (level up, TMS) and that's already on the article. All moves that Pikachu can know through '''normal gameplay (i.e. not anything specific, by any means)''' in '''USUM''' are already on the Pikachu page. The species page already has the most current (i.e. '''USUM''' or '''Gen VII''') moveset. Why are you even looking through the previous generation movesets if you're only looking for moves it can know in'''USUM'''? It's already on the species page, you don't need to click on anything else.
::::::::Breeding is a game mechanic. It's as important as TMs and level up moves. The move sections should cover all moves a Pokémon can learn '''through normal gameplay''' in the most '''recent game or generation'''. Transferring isn't '''learning through normal gameplay". Sure, neither are events, but I can look past that because those are generally one time things and should be noted.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 17:39, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::Nescientist didn't ask for moves that could be known "through normal gameplay". He/she/it asked for moves that could be known "by whatever means", which includes transfer as well as normal gameplay. Is this not a valid question to ask? [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 18:14, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
::::::::::Sigh.. Going through it step by step:
::::::::::# I did read your (whole) message.
::::::::::# I did not lie.
::::::::::# I am not looking for a bare minimum. (My question was on "moves Pikachu can know in USUM [by whatever means]".)
::::::::::# What Sumwun said (and everyone, including Sumwun, should be able to see how it is a ''valid'' question to ask).
::::::::::# I am looking through previous movesets because not all moves Pikachu can know in USUM are at [[Pikachu (Pokémon)]]; Mega Kick, for example, isn't. (We've been there before, I mentioned that way up above, even rephrased it repeatedly.)
::::::::::# Yes, I do need to click on something else to check, i.e. all previous movesets (at minimum).
::::::::::# Transfer is a game mechanic.
::::::::::# In my opinion, breeding is not quite as important as TMs and level-up moves, if only because I cannot—by no means—teach (an individual) Pokémon I already own its species' Egg Moves. (It's still important, though.)
::::::::::# Finally, a "definition" of what you think move sections should cover: moves Pokémon may ''learn'' through normal gameplay within the generation, plus event moves. I'll just mention that they do already cover more than that, for example how {{p|Cubchoo}} may learn Avalanche in USUM.
::::::::::Beyond that, of course, I can't be of any help to you when you claim that I didn't read your message and outright lied. And, up to this point, I was trying hard. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 20:02, 17 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::::I think the problem with the "outright lie" is that transferring a Pokemon requires 2 games. Nescientist knew that the END game would be US or UM. When Nescientist said he didn't have a game "in mind", he/she/it was referring to the START game, and his/her/its willingness to transfer a Pokemon FROM any game TO US or UM. Nescientist, is this right? [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 20:52, 17 October 2018 (UTC)
::::::::::::Yes, in your words/example, the end game would be USUM, but the start game could be anything (including USUM itself, i.e. no transfer at all). [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 16:42, 18 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::::::Should we bring this discussion to another administrator's talk page? [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 17:22, 25 October 2018 (UTC)

== Need your help ==

Hi there! Can you please help me with [[User talk:Mikuri#Who's stalking whose edits?|this discussion]]? I am tired of explaining to them that their obsession with having the current revision of a page is more of a hindrance than a help. Aside from the examples I offered in my talk page, you can check GrammarFreak01's latest edits to [[Marian]]'s page. That sentence they edited was perfectly fine as it was, but they changed it for no reason other than being the last person to have edited the page.

In doing so, they added misleading information because they clearly have no knowledge on the matter, first by saying that Jessie was disguised as Jessedia "at the time", creating a false impression that she disguised as Jessedia on one occasion when in fact this is a recurring disguise Jessie has changed into at least three times, and then by saying she was "briefly disguised". Assuming you don't know, Jessie has appeared as Jessedia for the duration of the entire Kanto Grand Festival and the Wallace Cup's Battle Stage, as well as in DP093 when she was interviewing Fantina.

This is not what one would call "briefly". This is not a one-time disguise that is blown off by Ash and his friends at the end of the episode. It's a recurring thing, and GrammarFreak01 is apparently unaware of that and changing a sentence that was completely okay with their nonsense just to accomplish their "goal". It's getting tired and I'm asking for help because these are instances in which I got involved, but who knows the amount of wrong information they have added to the tons of pages they edit daily.

It's frankly discouraging to edit a page only to have its content vandalized (inserting gibberish into pages counts as vandalism, right?) by someone who has no idea what they're doing and are just trying to get the most recent revision of a page. Also, judging by their latest edit to my talk page, they expect me to be some sort of wizard who can see into the future and tell them that their edit is wrong ''before'' they even make it. I don't know how to respond to that and I'm not the only user who has complained about GrammarFreak01's bad editing habits. Something needs to be done about this situation and that's why I'm asking you to intervene. Please help. --[[User:Mikuri|'''Mi''']][[User talk: Mikuri|'''ku''']][[Special:Contributions/Mikuri|'''ri''']] 15:12, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

:I am well aware of how long Jessie has been disguised as Jessedia and what she used that disguise for. [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Marian&type=revision&diff=2860143&oldid=2860142 The original sentence] in question just did not make sense to me from a grammatical standpoint. Also, for someone who constantly complains about me having a need to "have the current revision of a page", Mikuri has a nasty habit of editing articles hours and even minutes right after me, leading me to assume she is maliciously following me using my edit history. Examples of this are:

:*[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Melody_(M02)&action=history Melody (M02)]
:*[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Maren&action=history Maren]
:*[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Carol&action=history Carol]
:*[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Tobias_(M02)&action=history Tobias (M02)]
:*[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Molly_Hale&action=history Molly Hale]
:*[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Liza_(Johto)&action=history Liza (Johto)]
:*[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Oakley&action=history Oakley]
:*[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Annie_(M05)&action=history Annie (M05)]
:*[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Ross&action=history Ross]
:*[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Butler&action=history Butler]
:*[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Rafe&action=history Rafe]
:*[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Jack_Walker&action=history Jack Walker]
:*[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Lugia_(M02)&action=history Lugia (M02)]
:*[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Entei_(M03)&action=history Entei (M03)]
:*[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Celebi_(M04)&action=history Celebi (M04)]
:*[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Suicune_(M04)&action=history Suicune (M04)]
:*[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Lucario_(M08)&action=history Lucario (M08)]

:If you've noticed in the edit histories I provided, much of the articles hadn't been edited in months prior to my original edits. Then, when I make an edit, Mikuri follows after, which I find to be a complete contradiction to their complaints about my editing practices. This was also a problem back in June, when I first [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AMikuri&type=revision&diff=2809252&oldid=2808516 confronted Mikuri about it]. The articles in question were:

:*[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Lillie_(anime)&offset=20180628163311&action=history Lillie (anime)]
:*[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Brock%27s_Vulpix&action=history Brock's Vulpix]
:*[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Matori&offset=20180818063550&action=history Matori]

:At one point in our argument, I said [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AMikuri&type=revision&diff=2859786&oldid=2859767 this]. I admit that it was poorly worded due to my blinding irritation of the situation (and that I probably should've changed it once I calmed down). But what I was hoping to convey was that if Mikuri had a problem with me trying to hog the latest revision of a page, they should've tried to take it to the talk page sooner, just like what was usually done with me whenever there was a problem.

:Clearly, this is a problem that has been going on for months now and I would appreciate your mediation. I don't particularly care about any outcome anymore, so fire away. I only ask that this contradiction on Mikuri's part be addressed in some way. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 22:34, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

::I started "maliciously following" GrammarFreak01's edit history '''after''' I noticed they were stalking my edits. Usually after I finished doing a major edit to a page, they would appear to unnecessarily tweak image sizes (something Tiddlywinks has warned them about) or make another one of their pointless edits. I accused them of doing that in some of my edit summaries and they decided to [[User talk:Mikuri#You're being paranoid|come to my talk page]] and call me paranoid. I could provide a laundry list of that, but I don't feel like it's needed. For one, GrammarFreak01's talk page is chock-full of messages telling them to stop with the pointless edits (and some of them were left there by you, Force Fire). In addition, I am not the only user who has complained about their edit stalking habits, as there is a [[User talk:GrammarFreak01#Edit Stalking|message left by PardescanSlowbro]] detailing the exact same behavior.
::In their defense, all GrammarFreak01 had to say is that they receive email notifications after someone edits a page they have edited in the past. So what? This is no excuse to go around and make needless edits only to have the current revision of a page. And that is the main point of this discussion: GrammarFreak01's history of wholly unnecessary edits that add nothing to our pages. Correction: sometimes their edits make the page worse, as they add wrong information about a subject they know nothing about only to have the most recent revision, as was the case with [[Yuzo]]'s page. Their concern isn't quality content and accurate information, but rather an enormous amount of unverified nonsense. I honestly don't care if my revision isn't the current one and I don't have this kind of problem with any other user in this entire wiki, '''unlike GrammarFreak01'''. Several users have contributed to pages I had worked on, and you don't see me complaining about them. But GrammarFreak01 is not here to contribute, they're here to make unnecessary edits.
::So yes, I can admit that I have edited several pages upon seeing one of GrammarFreak01's edits, but I guess this comes as no surprise considering the recent changes are there for everyone to see, and again, this was '''after''' I noticed they were stalking my edits and making unnecessary changes to them. And there's one notable difference: it was never to add information that was untrue about a subject I know nothing about. My point isn't that they are editing after me, but that those edits are needless. Editing a page after another user isn't a blockable offense, but inserting gibberish into pages is, as is edit flood and edit wars, behaviors also exhibited by GrammarFreak01. And I think it is worth comparing our contributions: I usually do a complete overhaul by adding verified information I gathered and uploading high quality images to the Archives, while GrammarFreak01 has a long and documented history of making pointless edits that add no real content to Bulbapedia and edit warring. --[[User:Mikuri|'''Mi''']][[User talk: Mikuri|'''ku''']][[Special:Contributions/Mikuri|'''ri''']] 00:34, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
:::If you read the entire discussion, you will see that [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AGrammarFreak01&type=revision&diff=2825193&oldid=2825153 I explained myself and asked PardescanSlowbro for examples] where my edits were unnecessary and clearly malicious. I was happy to address those concerns. But they did not get back to me on that. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 01:25, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

== False positive abuse filter triggers ==

Hello, recently I tried to move a message I misplaced on a user's talk page (see log [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Special:AbuseLog?wpSearchUser=Ozank&wpSearchTitle=&wpSearchWiki= here]) to the bottom where it should have been, but the abuse filter didn't let me. If you want to look into this, feel free. [[User:Ozank|Ozank]] ([[User talk:Ozank|talk]]) 16:43, 17 October 2018 (UTC)

:He already [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/User_talk:GrammarFreak01#Re:_Heads_up responded to that]. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 17:39, 17 October 2018 (UTC)
::Yeah, I've already answered this on GrammarFreak's talk page. I think the system may have deemed moving sections (to the proper place) a drastic edit for a new user. Other than that, you should be fine once you've become a member for a period of time.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 06:20, 18 October 2018 (UTC)

== Mimikyu's name ==

Hi there,
Since you're the one who placed the warning in Mimikyu's "Name Origin", would you mind giving it a look [[Talk:Mimikyu (Pokémon)#Mimic_.2B_Q_2|here]]? Seeing that talking about it in the talk page was the recommendation, I'd like to discuss about it a little. Thanks. [[User:ExLight|ExLight]] ([[User talk:ExLight|talk]]) 01:46, 20 October 2018 (UTC)

== Mewtwo's voice actor ==

I just watched [https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lrTmDZavVVc a video] where it was revealed that the English voice actor of the {{OBP|Mewtwo|original series|original series Mewtwo}} was actually ''not'' Philip Bartlett. That was a stage name, and the Philip Bartlett who died years ago was a completely different person, with the ''real'' English voice actor behind Mewtwo ''and'' the Philip Bartlett stage name being a man named Jay Goede. I feel like this is worth checking into. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 17:22, 20 October 2018 (UTC)
:[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Dr._Fuji_(anime)&diff=2200677&oldid=2192996 Judging by this] and [[Talk:M01#Dr. Fuji's voice|this]], it's been acknowledged back in 2014.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 09:38, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
::Ah. Okay. Sorry. Shouldn't there then be something like a tooltip on Mewtwo's page to indicate that "Philip Bartlett" is just a stage name? --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 09:58, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
:::Don't think it's too much of an issue to do so.

== Troublesome user ==

Heads up. Clearly [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Special:Contributions/Cheekybutthole this user] is [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Probopass_(Pok%C3%A9mon)&diff=prev&oldid=2868297 not here to contribute]. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 03:26, 24 October 2018 (UTC)

:Never mind, {{U|Abcboy}} took care of it. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 03:41, 24 October 2018 (UTC)

== links ==

is it all right to repeat links from an above section in a lower one. and u know that internal error that was mentioned above? im still getting it. also i couldnt help noticing ur ignoring a poor man's cry for help up above. not a very nice thing to do, wouldnt u say? :) --[[User:EternalDragonX|EternalDragonX]] ([[User talk:EternalDragonX|talk]]) 14:16, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
:If something has already been linked in a section, it does not need to be linked again. It's fine to have one link per section, '''only if said link isn't directly below the previous section'''. Once every few sections is fine, but not literally the next section below it.
:The internal error issue is being looked into. There has been no updates yet on its progress.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 05:41, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
::so lets say a link keyword is in every section. you'd want it to be linked in every other section? 1st, 3rd, 5th, etc. --[[User:EternalDragonX|EternalDragonX]] ([[User talk:EternalDragonX|talk]]) 06:10, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
:::Use common sense. Also, you don't have to link every time the word "Pokémon species", "Pokémon trainer", or whatever appears.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 06:21, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

==Voice Actors==
Sent you an email with a list of voice actors from Lisa Ortiz, do I have your approval?--[[User:BigDocFan|BigDocFan]] ([[User talk:BigDocFan|talk]]) 16:12, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
:Those are fine to be added.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 05:45, 7 November 2018 (UTC)

== Statistic ==

Why did you undo my edit to statistic? [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 17:56, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
:You're change wasn't necessary. It was basically saying the same thing.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 03:44, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
::I changed "take effect" to "start affecting turn order", which does not mean the same thing. Speed has other effects, such as determining the base power of gyro ball and electro ball, and those other effects immediately respond to changes to speed. [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 04:52, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
:::The full sentence is " will not take effect until the following turn". What you changed it to is still saying that it wont take effect until the next turn.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 05:00, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
::::What it currently says is false because it implies that changes to speed do not start affecting the power of gyro ball and electro ball until the next turn. What I changed it to is true because it does not imply that. How can they say the same thing if one is false and the other is true? Would it be better if it said, "An in-battle change to a Pokémon's Speed stat will not start affecting turn order until the following turn, but otherwise takes effect immediately"? [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 18:49, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::If I might butt in here, if what Sumwun is saying is true (I've not seen any information whether it is or not), then there 'is' a difference between the two, and I think Sumwun's edit should be reinstated. Speed has effect on more things than just turn order, and some might react to changes sooner than others. --[[User:Felthry|Felthry]] ([[User talk:Felthry|talk]]) 18:00, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

== New Devolution ==
Hello Force Fire, I am a foreigner and reader on the Bulbapedia site. I only created an account in order to discuss a possible Pokémon capable of performing a Devolution, I mean Silvally (Type: Full).

Since originally this was his original form, however, he involuted to Type: Null after Faba added a helmet to his face, slowing him down. He will only be Silvally again when he destroys the helmet, that is, if it is valid I would like some moderator on the site to add this Pokémon to the article [[Devolution]]. [[User:NanayaShiki07|NanayaShiki07]] ([[User talk:NanayaShiki07|talk]]) 20:07, 10 November 2018 (~)

Struggle (move)

2018-11-11T17:53:52Z

Felthry: /* Trivia */ Elaborate on glitch details.

{{MoveInfobox
|n=165
|name=Struggle
|jname=わるあがき
|jtrans=Vain Struggle
|jtranslit=Waruagaki
|gameimage=Struggle VII.png
|gameimagewidth=300
|type=Normal
|damagecategory=Physical
|basepp={{tt|1|10 in Generation I}}
|maxpp={{tt|1|16 in Generation I}}
|power=50
|accuracy={{tt|—|100% in Generations I-III}}
|gen=I
|category=Cool
|appeal=4
|jam=0
|cdesc=A highly appealing move.
|appealsc=3
|scdesc=A basic performance using a move known by the Pokémon.
|category6=Tough
|appeal6=4
|jam6=0
|cdesc6=Quite an appealing move.
|touches=yes
|protect=yes
|magiccoat=no
|snatch=no
|mirrormove=no
|kingsrock=yes
|sound=no
|target=adjacentfoe
}}
'''Struggle''' (Japanese: '''わるあがき''' ''Vain Struggle'') is a damage-dealing [[move]] introduced in [[Generation I]]. It is a [[move]] that every Pokémon can use when none of its moves are usable, although no Pokémon can naturally learn it. Prior to [[Generation II]], it dealt {{type|Normal}} damage.

==Effect==
===Generation I===
Struggle deals damage to the opponent and the user receives [[recoil]] damage equal to ½ of the damage the attack did to the opponent. Struggle will automatically be used by a Pokémon that has no usable moves but is ordered to attack, and is not affected by any {{PP}} limitations. Struggle is capable of striking a [[critical hit]].

Struggle has an [[accuracy]] of 100%.

If the user of Struggle attacks first and knocks itself out due to recoil damage, the opponent will not attack or be subjected to recurrent damage during that round. If Struggle breaks a {{m|substitute}}, the user will take no recoil damage.

Struggle has 10 base PP, though no PP would ever be deducted from it. Self-inflicted recoil damage from Struggle from the previous turn can be {{m|counter}}ed if the opponent did not make a move on the following turn.

Struggle deals {{type|Normal}} damage in this Generation, meaning it is not very effective against {{type|Rock}} Pokémon and ineffective against {{type|Ghost}} Pokémon. If the only usable move is disabled by {{m|Disable}}, the affected Pokémon will use Struggle.

In [[Pokémon Stadium (English)|Stadium]], no recoil damage is taken if Struggle knocks out an opponent.

===Generations II and III===
Struggle now has a maximum of 1 PP instead of 10 (16 with PP Ups), and its recoil damage is equal to ¼ of the damage the attack did to the opponent. Although still classified as a Normal-type move, Struggle is now unaffected by [[type]]s, inflicting neutral damage to {{t|Steel}}-, Rock-, and Ghost-type Pokémon and being unaffected by {{STAB}}. Struggle can hit through {{a|Wonder Guard}}. Its target is a randomly selected opponent in [[Double Battle]]s.

The user will take recoil damage even if Struggle breaks a substitute, or if its Ability is {{a|Rock Head}} or {{a|Magic Guard}}.

If a Pokémon holding a [[Choice Band]] is affected by {{m|Disable}}, {{m|Taunt}} or {{m|Imprison}} such that it cannot use the move that the Choice Band forces it to, it will not be able to use a move other than Struggle as long as the item and effect both remain active. If a Pokémon is holding a Choice Band and is affected by {{m|Torment}}, the Pokémon will use Struggle every second turn.

===Generation IV onward===
The user now takes ¼ of its maximum HP as recoil damage, regardless of how much damage the attack did to the opponent. A user with only 1 HP will knock itself out with recoil damage.

If a Pokémon holding a {{DL|In-battle effect item|Choice items|Choice item}} is affected by {{m|Disable}} (including due to the effect of {{a|Cursed Body}}), {{m|Taunt}} or {{m|Imprison}} such that it cannot use the move that the Choice item forces it to, it will not be able to use a move other than Struggle as long as the item and effect both remain active. If a Pokémon holding a Choice item is affected by {{m|Torment}}, it will not be able to use a move other than Struggle every second turn.

Struggle now bypasses {{stat|accuracy}} checks to always hit, unless the target is in the {{cat|Moves with a semi-invulnerable turn|semi-invulnerable turn}} of a move such as {{m|Dig}} or {{m|Fly}}.

Despite being considered a recoil move, Struggle will not gain a boost by {{a|Reckless}}.

Struggle can no longer be copied by {{m|Mirror Move}}.

Struggle is unaffected by a held [[Normal Gem]] (and will not consume it).

==Description==
{{movedesc|normal}}
{{movedescentry|{{gameabbrevss|Stad}}|Used only if the user runs totally out of PP. The user is hit with {{tt|1/4|error; supposed to be 1/2}} of the damage it inflicts.}}
{{movedescentry|{{gameabbrevss|Stad2}}|Used only if the user is totally out of PP. The user is hit with {{tt|1/4|error; supposed to be 1/2}} the damage it inflicts.}}
{{movedescentry|{{gameabbrev2|GSC}}|Used only if all PP are exhausted.}}
{{movedescentry|{{gameabbrev3|RSE}}|Used only if all PP are gone. Also hurts the user a little.}}
{{movedescentry|{{gameabbrev3|FRLG}}|An attack that is used only if there is no PP. It also hurts the user.}}
{{movedescentry|{{gameabbrevss|Colo}}{{gameabbrevss|XD}}|Used when all PP are gone. Also hurts the user a bit.}}
{{movedescentry|{{gameabbrev4|DPPtHGSS}}{{gameabbrevss|PBR}} {{gameabbrev5|BWB2W2}}|An attack that is used in desperation only if the user has no PP. It also hurts the user slightly.}}
{{movedescentry|{{gameabbrev6|XYORAS}}|An attack that is used in desperation only if the user has no PP. This also damages the user a little.}}
{{movedescentry|{{gameabbrev7|SMUSUM}}|This attack is used in desperation only if the user has no PP. It also damages the user a little.}}
|}
|}{{left clear}}

==Learnset==
No Pokémon can learn or know Struggle directly, but all Pokémon can use Struggle when they cannot use any other moves, such as by them all having 0 PP, or if they are all incapacitated through any of {{m|Disable}}, {{m|Taunt}}, {{m|Torment}}, {{m|Imprison}}, {{m|Heal Block}}, {{a|Cursed Body}}, [[Assault Vest]], or {{DL|In-battle effect item|Choice items}}. Also, some moves, such as {{m|Belch}}, cannot be selected unless specific conditions are met, so can also cause the Pokémon to Struggle if they are the only moves with PP.

In the Mystery Dungeon series, the only way to use Struggle is to use a move when none of the Pokémon's moves are usable for one or another reason (like running out of PP). The move deals 1/4 of the total HP of that Pokémon.

==In other games==
===[[Pokémon GO]]===
{{GoSpecialAttack
|id=133
|move=Struggle
|type=Normal
|pow=35
|segments=3
|duration=2.2
|crit=0
|users={{MSP|010|Caterpie}}{{MSP|011|Metapod}}{{MSP|013|Weedle}}{{MSP|014|Kakuna}}{{MSP|129|Magikarp}}{{MSP|132|Ditto}} {{MSP|201|Unown}}{{MSP|235|Smeargle}}{{MSP|265|Wurmple}}{{MSP|266|Silcoon}}{{MSP|268|Cascoon}}{{MSP|374|Beldum}} {{MSP|401|Kricketot}}{{MSP|412|Burmy}}{{MSP|412G|Burmy}}{{MSP|412S|Burmy}}
}}
*Prior to an update to [[Niantic]]'s servers on February 16, 2017, Struggle had a power of 15, an energy bar of [[File:GO charge 5.png|103px|5]], and a duration of 1.695 seconds.

===Description===
{{movedesc|normal}}
{{movedescentry|{{gameabbrevmd|RB}}|Inflicts damage on the target. However, the user also takes damage one quarter of its maximum HP.}}
{{movedescentry|{{gameabbrevmd|TDS}}|Inflicts damage on the target. But it also inflicts damage on the user in the amount of 1/4 of its maximum HP.}}
{{movedescentry|{{gameabbrevmd|GTI}}|It damages an enemy, but it also damages you. (If there's no move available, your move will be Struggle.)}}
{{movedescentry|{{gameabbrevmd|SMD}}|It damages an enemy, but it also damages you. If you have no moves available, your move will be Struggle.}}
|}
|}{{left clear}}

==In other generations==
===Core series games===
{{Movegen
|type=normal
|genI=Struggle I
|genII=Struggle II
|genIII=Struggle III
|genIV=Struggle IV
|}}
{{Movegen
|type=normal
|genV=Struggle V
|genVI=Struggle VI
|}}
===Spin-off series games===
{{Movegen
|type=Normal
|Stad=Struggle Stad
|Stad2=Struggle Stad2
|Colo=Struggle Colo
|XD=Struggle XD
|}}

{{Movegen
|type=Normal
|PBR=Struggle PBR
|}}

{{Movegen
|type=Normal
|PMDRB=Struggle PMD RB
|}}

==Trivia==
* Even though Struggle can only be accessed by the loss of all PP, it was given {{pkmn|Contest}}, {{pkmn|Super Contest}}, and {{pkmn|Contest|Contest Spectacular}} stats. This is most likely to prevent the game from crashing if a Pokémon is hacked to have Struggle as one of their four moves.
* Struggle is the last non-glitch move in [[index number]] order in [[Generation I]], and the last Generation I move in index number lists since then.
* Along with {{m|Chatter}} and Sketch, Struggle is one of three non-[[Shadow move]]s that cannot be copied by {{m|Sketch}} in any generation.
* In Generation I, Struggle was the only move that could not be called via {{m|Metronome}}, besides Metronome itself.
* Struggle has the lowest base power of all [[recoil]]-causing moves.
* Because it deals typeless damage, Struggle is the only damaging Normal-type move which can hit a {{type|Ghost}} opponent without the aid of {{m|Odor Sleuth}}, {{m|Foresight}}, a [[Ring Target]], or {{a|Scrappy}}.
* Along with {{m|Barrage}} and {{m|Kinesis}}, Struggle is one of three moves introduced in Generation I that have not been featured in the main {{pkmn|anime}} series.
** It is also one of two Generation I moves that have not been used in the [[Pokémon Adventures]] {{pkmn|manga}}, the other being Kinesis.
* Certain glitch Pokémon, including [[Generation IV hybrid]]s, [['Ng'Mp]], [['ゥ.]], and [[4, ゥァ (DD)]], can learn Struggle by level up.
* Should a player hack Struggle onto a Pokémon, it will not be displayed correctly in [[Pokémon Stadium 2]]'s lab (not the case for [[Pokémon Stadium (English)|the previous game]]) and will be highlighted, as if it was a {{cat|Generation II moves|Generation II move}}. This does not happen when selecting a team for battle.
* In {{eng|Pokémon Stadium}}, the move description erroneously states that Struggle inflicts recoil to the user equal to ¼ of the damage inflicted; the correct number prior to Generation II is ½.
* In Generation I, a glitch can occur making it impossible for a Pokémon to use struggle if it has previously used {{m|Transform}} followed by either {{m|Metronome}} or {{m|Mirror Move}}. This renders the Pokémon completely unable to battle until its PP is restored.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_c7tQkSyz7E Pokemon R/B/Y - Transform + Mirror Move / Metronome PP glitch]</ref>

==In other languages==
{{Langtable|color={{normal color}}|bordercolor={{normal color dark}}
|zh_yue=掙扎 ''{{tt|Jāngjaat|Struggle}}''
|zh_cmn=掙扎 / 挣扎 ''{{tt|Zhēngzhá|Struggle}}''
|nl=Spartel
|fr_eu=Lutte
|de=Verzweifler
|el=Αγώνας ''Agúnas''
|it=Scontro
|ko=발버둥 ''Balbeodung''
|pt_br=Insistência
|sr=Opstanak
|es_eu=Forcejeo{{tt|*|Generation VII onwards}} Combate{{tt|*|Generations I-VI}}}}
{{-}}

{{Project Moves and Abilities notice}}

[[Category:Moves that cannot miss]]
[[Category:Moves that have recoil]]

[[de:Verzweifler]]
[[es:Forcejeo]]
[[fr:Lutte]]
[[it:Scontro]]
[[ja:わるあがき]]
[[zh:挣扎（招式）]]

Struggle (move)

2018-11-04T11:31:31Z

Felthry: /* Trivia */ Removed section contradicting earlier description

{{MoveInfobox
|n=165
|name=Struggle
|jname=わるあがき
|jtrans=Vain Struggle
|jtranslit=Waruagaki
|gameimage=Struggle VII.png
|gameimagewidth=300
|type=Normal
|damagecategory=Physical
|basepp={{tt|1|10 in Generation I}}
|maxpp={{tt|1|16 in Generation I}}
|power=50
|accuracy={{tt|—|100% in Generations I-III}}
|gen=I
|category=Cool
|appeal=4
|jam=0
|cdesc=A highly appealing move.
|appealsc=3
|scdesc=A basic performance using a move known by the Pokémon.
|category6=Tough
|appeal6=4
|jam6=0
|cdesc6=Quite an appealing move.
|touches=yes
|protect=yes
|magiccoat=no
|snatch=no
|mirrormove=no
|kingsrock=yes
|sound=no
|target=adjacentfoe
}}
'''Struggle''' (Japanese: '''わるあがき''' ''Vain Struggle'') is a damage-dealing [[move]] introduced in [[Generation I]]. It is a [[move]] that every Pokémon can use when none of its moves are usable, although no Pokémon can naturally learn it. Prior to [[Generation II]], it dealt {{type|Normal}} damage.

==Effect==
===Generation I===
Struggle deals damage to the opponent and the user receives [[recoil]] damage equal to ½ of the damage the attack did to the opponent. Struggle will automatically be used by a Pokémon that has no usable moves but is ordered to attack, and is not affected by any {{PP}} limitations. Struggle is capable of striking a [[critical hit]].

Struggle has an [[accuracy]] of 100%.

If the user of Struggle attacks first and knocks itself out due to recoil damage, the opponent will not attack or be subjected to recurrent damage during that round. If Struggle breaks a {{m|substitute}}, the user will take no recoil damage.

Struggle has 10 base PP, though no PP would ever be deducted from it. Self-inflicted recoil damage from Struggle from the previous turn can be {{m|counter}}ed if the opponent did not make a move on the following turn.

Struggle deals {{type|Normal}} damage in this Generation, meaning it is not very effective against {{type|Rock}} Pokémon and ineffective against {{type|Ghost}} Pokémon. If the only usable move is disabled by {{m|Disable}}, the affected Pokémon will use Struggle.

In [[Pokémon Stadium (English)|Stadium]], no recoil damage is taken if Struggle knocks out an opponent.

===Generations II and III===
Struggle now has a maximum of 1 PP instead of 10 (16 with PP Ups), and its recoil damage is equal to ¼ of the damage the attack did to the opponent. Although still classified as a Normal-type move, Struggle is now unaffected by [[type]]s, inflicting neutral damage to {{t|Steel}}-, Rock-, and Ghost-type Pokémon and being unaffected by {{STAB}}. Struggle can hit through {{a|Wonder Guard}}. Its target is a randomly selected opponent in [[Double Battle]]s.

The user will take recoil damage even if Struggle breaks a substitute, or if its Ability is {{a|Rock Head}} or {{a|Magic Guard}}.

If a Pokémon holding a [[Choice Band]] is affected by {{m|Disable}}, {{m|Taunt}} or {{m|Imprison}} such that it cannot use the move that the Choice Band forces it to, it will not be able to use a move other than Struggle as long as the item and effect both remain active. If a Pokémon is holding a Choice Band and is affected by {{m|Torment}}, the Pokémon will use Struggle every second turn.

===Generation IV onward===
The user now takes ¼ of its maximum HP as recoil damage, regardless of how much damage the attack did to the opponent. A user with only 1 HP will knock itself out with recoil damage.

If a Pokémon holding a {{DL|In-battle effect item|Choice items|Choice item}} is affected by {{m|Disable}} (including due to the effect of {{a|Cursed Body}}), {{m|Taunt}} or {{m|Imprison}} such that it cannot use the move that the Choice item forces it to, it will not be able to use a move other than Struggle as long as the item and effect both remain active. If a Pokémon holding a Choice item is affected by {{m|Torment}}, it will not be able to use a move other than Struggle every second turn.

Struggle now bypasses {{stat|accuracy}} checks to always hit, unless the target is in the {{cat|Moves with a semi-invulnerable turn|semi-invulnerable turn}} of a move such as {{m|Dig}} or {{m|Fly}}.

Despite being considered a recoil move, Struggle will not gain a boost by {{a|Reckless}}.

Struggle can no longer be copied by {{m|Mirror Move}}.

Struggle is unaffected by a held [[Normal Gem]] (and will not consume it).

==Description==
{{movedesc|normal}}
{{movedescentry|{{gameabbrevss|Stad}}|Used only if the user runs totally out of PP. The user is hit with {{tt|1/4|error; supposed to be 1/2}} of the damage it inflicts.}}
{{movedescentry|{{gameabbrevss|Stad2}}|Used only if the user is totally out of PP. The user is hit with {{tt|1/4|error; supposed to be 1/2}} the damage it inflicts.}}
{{movedescentry|{{gameabbrev2|GSC}}|Used only if all PP are exhausted.}}
{{movedescentry|{{gameabbrev3|RSE}}|Used only if all PP are gone. Also hurts the user a little.}}
{{movedescentry|{{gameabbrev3|FRLG}}|An attack that is used only if there is no PP. It also hurts the user.}}
{{movedescentry|{{gameabbrevss|Colo}}{{gameabbrevss|XD}}|Used when all PP are gone. Also hurts the user a bit.}}
{{movedescentry|{{gameabbrev4|DPPtHGSS}}{{gameabbrevss|PBR}} {{gameabbrev5|BWB2W2}}|An attack that is used in desperation only if the user has no PP. It also hurts the user slightly.}}
{{movedescentry|{{gameabbrev6|XYORAS}}|An attack that is used in desperation only if the user has no PP. This also damages the user a little.}}
{{movedescentry|{{gameabbrev7|SMUSUM}}|This attack is used in desperation only if the user has no PP. It also damages the user a little.}}
|}
|}{{left clear}}

==Learnset==
No Pokémon can learn or know Struggle directly, but all Pokémon can use Struggle when they cannot use any other moves, such as by them all having 0 PP, or if they are all incapacitated through any of {{m|Disable}}, {{m|Taunt}}, {{m|Torment}}, {{m|Imprison}}, {{m|Heal Block}}, {{a|Cursed Body}}, [[Assault Vest]], or {{DL|In-battle effect item|Choice items}}. Also, some moves, such as {{m|Belch}}, cannot be selected unless specific conditions are met, so can also cause the Pokémon to Struggle if they are the only moves with PP.

In the Mystery Dungeon series, the only way to use Struggle is to use a move when none of the Pokémon's moves are usable for one or another reason (like running out of PP). The move deals 1/4 of the total HP of that Pokémon.

==In other games==
===[[Pokémon GO]]===
{{GoSpecialAttack
|id=133
|move=Struggle
|type=Normal
|pow=35
|segments=3
|duration=2.2
|crit=0
|users={{MSP|010|Caterpie}}{{MSP|011|Metapod}}{{MSP|013|Weedle}}{{MSP|014|Kakuna}}{{MSP|129|Magikarp}}{{MSP|132|Ditto}} {{MSP|201|Unown}}{{MSP|235|Smeargle}}{{MSP|265|Wurmple}}{{MSP|266|Silcoon}}{{MSP|268|Cascoon}}{{MSP|374|Beldum}} {{MSP|401|Kricketot}}{{MSP|412|Burmy}}{{MSP|412G|Burmy}}{{MSP|412S|Burmy}}
}}
*Prior to an update to [[Niantic]]'s servers on February 16, 2017, Struggle had a power of 15, an energy bar of [[File:GO charge 5.png|103px|5]], and a duration of 1.695 seconds.

===Description===
{{movedesc|normal}}
{{movedescentry|{{gameabbrevmd|RB}}|Inflicts damage on the target. However, the user also takes damage one quarter of its maximum HP.}}
{{movedescentry|{{gameabbrevmd|TDS}}|Inflicts damage on the target. But it also inflicts damage on the user in the amount of 1/4 of its maximum HP.}}
{{movedescentry|{{gameabbrevmd|GTI}}|It damages an enemy, but it also damages you. (If there's no move available, your move will be Struggle.)}}
{{movedescentry|{{gameabbrevmd|SMD}}|It damages an enemy, but it also damages you. If you have no moves available, your move will be Struggle.}}
|}
|}{{left clear}}

==In other generations==
===Core series games===
{{Movegen
|type=normal
|genI=Struggle I
|genII=Struggle II
|genIII=Struggle III
|genIV=Struggle IV
|}}
{{Movegen
|type=normal
|genV=Struggle V
|genVI=Struggle VI
|}}
===Spin-off series games===
{{Movegen
|type=Normal
|Stad=Struggle Stad
|Stad2=Struggle Stad2
|Colo=Struggle Colo
|XD=Struggle XD
|}}

{{Movegen
|type=Normal
|PBR=Struggle PBR
|}}

{{Movegen
|type=Normal
|PMDRB=Struggle PMD RB
|}}

==Trivia==
* Even though Struggle can only be accessed by the loss of all PP, it was given {{pkmn|Contest}}, {{pkmn|Super Contest}}, and {{pkmn|Contest|Contest Spectacular}} stats. This is most likely to prevent the game from crashing if a Pokémon is hacked to have Struggle as one of their four moves.
* Struggle is the last non-glitch move in [[index number]] order in [[Generation I]], and the last Generation I move in index number lists since then.
* Along with {{m|Chatter}} and Sketch, Struggle is one of three non-[[Shadow move]]s that cannot be copied by {{m|Sketch}} in any generation.
* In Generation I, Struggle was the only move that could not be called via {{m|Metronome}}, besides Metronome itself.
* Struggle has the lowest base power of all [[recoil]]-causing moves.
* Because it deals typeless damage, Struggle is the only damaging Normal-type move which can hit a {{type|Ghost}} opponent without the aid of {{m|Odor Sleuth}}, {{m|Foresight}}, a [[Ring Target]], or {{a|Scrappy}}.
* Along with {{m|Barrage}} and {{m|Kinesis}}, Struggle is one of three moves introduced in Generation I that have not been featured in the main {{pkmn|anime}} series.
** It is also one of two Generation I moves that have not been used in the [[Pokémon Adventures]] {{pkmn|manga}}, the other being Kinesis.
* Certain glitch Pokémon, including [[Generation IV hybrid]]s, [['Ng'Mp]], [['ゥ.]], and [[4, ゥァ (DD)]], can learn Struggle by level up.
* Should a player hack Struggle onto a Pokémon, it will not be displayed correctly in [[Pokémon Stadium 2]]'s lab (not the case for [[Pokémon Stadium (English)|the previous game]]) and will be highlighted, as if it was a {{cat|Generation II moves|Generation II move}}. This does not happen when selecting a team for battle.
* In {{eng|Pokémon Stadium}}, the move description erroneously states that Struggle inflicts recoil to the user equal to ¼ of the damage inflicted; the correct number prior to Generation II is ½.
* In Generation I, a glitch could on very rare occasions activate where a Pokémon will not use Struggle when out of PP, depending on what the player is battling at the time; it could either soft lock or freeze the game.{{fact}}

==In other languages==
{{Langtable|color={{normal color}}|bordercolor={{normal color dark}}
|zh_yue=掙扎 ''{{tt|Jāngjaat|Struggle}}''
|zh_cmn=掙扎 / 挣扎 ''{{tt|Zhēngzhá|Struggle}}''
|nl=Spartel
|fr_eu=Lutte
|de=Verzweifler
|el=Αγώνας ''Agúnas''
|it=Scontro
|ko=발버둥 ''Balbeodung''
|pt_br=Insistência
|sr=Opstanak
|es_eu=Forcejeo{{tt|*|Generation VII onwards}} Combate{{tt|*|Generations I-VI}}}}
{{-}}

{{Project Moves and Abilities notice}}

[[Category:Moves that cannot miss]]
[[Category:Moves that have recoil]]

[[de:Verzweifler]]
[[es:Forcejeo]]
[[fr:Lutte]]
[[it:Scontro]]
[[ja:わるあがき]]
[[zh:挣扎（招式）]]

Bulbapedia talk:Project Pokédex/Structure

2018-10-24T02:44:06Z

Felthry: /* Adding moves available only by transfer from an earlier generation */

== Game locations ==

I am not sure if the Project pages are all archived or not, but I feel like I should ask this anyways. Is the order information listed out of date? I am trying to update a few articles to be consistent with each other and am not sure if Routes are to be first or second to named locations. --[[User:Super goku|Super goku]] ([[User talk:Super goku|talk]]) 05:43, 21 August 2017 (UTC)

== Adding moves available only by transfer from an earlier generation ==

Sumwun and I believe that, for the moves, an additional section "By transfer from an earlier generation" would be sensible. (Please refer to [[User talk:Force Fire#Transfer-only moves and ability changes]].) The addition of this subsection would enable users to tell what moves <species> can '''''know''''' (in <game/generation>) at one glance.

It's very well possible even Tiddlywinks is ''under''estimating how difficult it is to answer the "know in <game/generation>" question (as much as I initially did). As Sumwun said at the referenced talk page, currently, you'd have to click at least up to 6 links to learnset pages, assuming you already know by heart how transfer works (and that you can't transfer Pokémon from GO by any means, which is what I actually doublechecked). And additionally, you might have to actually ''neglect'' irrelevant sections on learnset pages (for example, in USUM/GenVII, {{p|Bulbasaur}} cannot ''know'' {{m|AncientPower}} AFAIK). (If there's a faster method, I'd like to hear it.)

And I can't stress how important I think that question is, for I believe it is the central question to that species and learnset pages should be providing an answer to (the use case). It all boils down to that use case: in Tiddlywinks' words, what's the "concern" species/learnset pages try to address? I can't sketch a question/use case that would include "By events" but not "By transfer from a prior generation". (Well, for USUM, I can sketch the question "What moves can <species> with [[black clover]] know?", but that's arguably a "special" case, and probably comp-centric{{tt|*|I am not a competitve battler, by the way}}.) I would like to know what you guys think that use case should be.

Regarding Tiddlywinks' comment about this coming from a "specific focus like comp/challenges", I took some time to think about that. Apart from the fact that I don't think the use case is comp-centric even, it is also not subjective, but purely factual, unlike the questions you said "we're never going to do" (and, by the way, I agree we shouldn't). For example, I recall that I once designed a team for my next playthrough, and I was searching possible moves for them. From context, I can recreate it must've been for XY before ORAS came out, because I wanted my Swinub to have a good Special Ground-type STAB and ended up breeding it in an earlier generation so I could teach it Earth Power via move tutor, then transfered (and traded) it to the new save file. I don't think that I ever was, in any point in time, trying to answer a question where I required all current subsections but not "By transfer from a prior generation".

I would like to know what you guys think that use case should be, and whether you think the suggestion subsection is sensible. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 12:17, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
:As far as event moves, the alternative to listing them would seem to be...''not'' having them documented. (If that option seems sensible to you, please explain it to me. =P )
:Regardless of whether it is an "exclusive" concern of comp (though I could very much argue that you searching for a "good" move is still some above average interest in strategy), it is still a fairly niche concern. Exploiting legacy moves requires effort and resources (having access to more than one game or console is not necessarily trivial). It's much simpler, and works just fine, to just play the game at hand. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 13:58, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
::Well, they would still be documented at event distribution pages and move pages, but I don't want to remove that section anyway.
::If you say "What moves can <species> know (in <game/generation>)?" is a niche, what do you think the central question is (like, the most important one; what are leansets there for)? [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 15:33, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
:::In short, info new to this generation. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 15:56, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
::::Ok, thanks. "By transfer from an earlier generation" is not within that scope, of course.
::::Does that mean you ''oppose'' that section, then? [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 16:07, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::I said no before. It means I won't say we ''definitely'' need it. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 16:24, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
::::::Thanks for clarifying. (I guess you didn't explicitly say that you don't oppose it, and I certainly didn't understand it that way.) [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 16:37, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::::Are Bulbapedia users more likely to care about "What moves can <Pokemon> ''learn'' in this generation?" than they are to care about "What moves can <Pokemon> ''know'' in this generation?"? [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 21:57, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
::::::::Even if the large majority of Bulbapedia users only care about ''learning'' moves, adding transfer-only moves will still help the few of us who care more than it will annoy or hurt anyone, right? Are there any real drawbacks to adding transfer-only moves? [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 22:16, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::If you can make a user page (say a page for each generation to keep it relatively simple) with all legacy moves for all Pokemon, then I won't mind if you want to ask, essentially, is it so hard?
:::::::::As long as that's gonna be on us, though, that effort is non-trivial, especially when, once again, the info ''is'' available if you need it currently. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 23:38, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
::::::::::Okay. I'll try to do that when I get enough time. [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 01:47, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::::This is a feature I'd like to have as well. It's something I've wanted in the past but never thought to ask about adding it here. --[[User:Felthry|Felthry]] ([[User talk:Felthry|talk]]) 02:44, 24 October 2018 (UTC)

User talk:Nescientist/Archive01

2017-03-19T19:50:12Z

Felthry: /* Mathematical formulae */

{| cellspacing="7" class="roundy" style="margin:auto; border: 1px solid #3e7614; background: #FFFFFF;"
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By creating your account you are now able to edit pages, join discussions, and expand the community-driven Pokémon encyclopedia. Before you jump in, here are some ground rules:
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== Apology ==

Sorry for editing your userspace article without your permission. I failed to see your name in the article heading and only realized my mistake when you mentioned that it might be ready for mainspacing. Sorry for the trouble. --[[User:Super goku|Super goku]] ([[User talk:Super goku|talk]]) 14:48, 10 July 2016 (UTC)
:Yeah, no worries. I did ask for exactly the source you provided, so I'd rather thank you. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 15:33, 10 July 2016 (UTC)

== Effect section guidelines ==

I've actually talked about that with [[User_talk:SnorlaxMonster/Archive/7#Moves_articles|an admin few years ago]], then kinda forgot about doing anything with it. [[User:Eridanus|Eridanus]] ([[User talk:Eridanus|talk]]) 12:04, 1 September 2016 (UTC)
:Ah, thanks, good to know. So SnorlaxMonster and I seem to agree on what is most reasonable in that regard. Anyway, our current move articles currently do (generally) '''not''' follow that "subsection only when changed" part (as well as some other ideas of the guideline), which has bothered me for a while. Right now, you basically have to read ''everything'' to know what you want to know in most cases. But I think especially if someone edits (almost) all move articles anyway (and I think between Tiddlywinks and myself, there's some chance in the near future), it might be a good idea to also ''adapt'' (after some kind of discussion/approval). If you have anything to add (or discuss), by all means, please feel free! [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 13:35, 1 September 2016 (UTC)
::I might add some moves' data (and maybe item locations as they're kinda lacking) on Mystery Dungeon spin-offs sometime in the future, once I figure out how moves work (this is not helped by the fact that Gates and Super have moves work differently than in the older games, like how Pursuit went from inflicting status on the user to an actual damaging move). [[User:Eridanus|Eridanus]] ([[User talk:Eridanus|talk]]) 14:09, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

== Meowth Theater ==

Hey there, just wanted to tell you that the Italian names for the Meowth Theater dungeons are listed {{it|Mondo Pokémon (Mystery Dungeon)#Super Mystery Dungeon|here on Pokémon Central Wiki}}, it would be nice if you could add them on the pages when you create them though they don't say what they are based on. --[[User:Raltseye|Raltseye]] [[User talk:Raltseye|prata med mej]] 12:09, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
:Seems not too hard to find out. Thanks! [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 12:12, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
::Nice, you're welcome. I'll be adding the Spanish and French names in a while as they're not listed at neither Poképédia nor WikiDex. --[[User:Raltseye|Raltseye]] [[User talk:Raltseye|prata med mej]] 13:26, 6 October 2016 (UTC)

== Showdown ==

When you mention Showdown like [[Special:Diff/2522503|this]], it sounds ilke it's an accepted source. In the same way as if someone mentioned Serebii in an edit summary, I'd just like to advise you to please avoid doing this, if only because it may give other users the wrong idea. Just find another justification, and that's all you need to communicate. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 11:42, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
:You're right, I'm usually more careful. I should've used nothing, or "backed up by". [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 11:49, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
::You shouldn't really need to note Showdown at all. If you want to remember it for yourself or something, perhaps you can make a userpage (or some file on your own computer). [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 12:06, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
:::I'm keeping track, that's not the reason I write that in edit summaries. These "backed up by" statements are actually meant for other users. I see no reason not to explain to all Bulbapedia editors what I do, or why I do it in as much detail as possible (and reasonable), so that they at least do have the opportunity to reproduce/understand it, or tell that I've checked Showdown for that particular move/Ability ''as well'' and have absolutely no reason to doubt what Bulbapedia currently says. (And most specifically, I guess, that's you.) So I feel I ''should'' note that, actually. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 12:29, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
::::But if we don't accept Showdown, *I* don't really care about it. And no one else should either, at least not in making decisions about what's on a page. Those decisions should be made without the "benefit" of Showdown. Either you can back up what you're doing without referencing Showdown, or you shouldn't be making the edit in the first place. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 12:39, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
:::::I know Showdown is not an accepted source; it doesn't influence whether I add something to a page. When Showdown contradicts Bulbapedia, I don't just add it to pages. Never have. Explicitly asked for whether I could, but accepted I could not. I leave them as they are.
:::::However, contradictions are issues that should (ideally) be resolved. Had I not checked Showdown, I wouldn't have tested Heat Crash, and VioletPumpkin wouldn't have tested Whirlwind (well, I don't know, but maybe). Why should I withhold information? (And with that, I mean that I've read what Showdown says, not that it's necessarily accurate.) [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 12:57, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
::::::None of your examples above include any reason why you would need to mention Showdown in an edit summary. If you notice that Showdown says Heat Crash does something we don't say...at that point, there's nothing you need to edit. If you proceed to test Heat Crash and determine that Showdown is right...you still don't need to mention Showdown. "I tested this and discovered that it actually works like this" is perfectly fine, and/or is not helped by adding any mention of Showdown. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 13:06, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
:::::::I'm not sure if you just don't get it or something. "At that point" is exactly where I want to (or more precisely, should be able to) make public that I've checked Showdown, and that it contradicts. So anyone is able to know, and can potentially maybe even do something about solving the apparent contradiction issue. It doesn't matter whether that's on a user page, a talk page, or an edit summary (i.e., of a sensible, related edit). It just mustn't be on a mainspace page (coz it's unsourced/unconfirmed). [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 13:23, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
::::::::Then you've completely veered away from where this started, making an "affirmative" edit (so to speak) and "citing" Showdown. If there's other support, Showdown doesn't need mentioning.
::::::::As for noting where Showdown contradicts something, I don't think I care if you mention Showdown as the source of doubt. But I'm not sure that Showdown (all by itself) contradicting BP would be a reason to make ''any'' sort of edit to a mainspace page... If you want to say something on the talk page, though, that's great. (Personally, I'd say that a user page might be better, or at least if you can link to a user page, just so people can find all the contradictions you've discovered together rather than just stumbling upon one or two on different talk pages.) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 13:34, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
:::::::::Well, if you want to, I can abstain from making these affirmatives "no doubt" edits!? It's just that they're explicitly affirming there is ''not'' a doubt, not merely ''not'' affirming there is a doubt.
:::::::::Yes, right now, I'm gathering contradictions. As I said to you on your talk page, I will go to talk pages or create a user page with collected contradictions depending on how many there are ("''Depending on how much "Showdown-exclusive" info it will be...''") . [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 13:44, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
::::::::::I'm just gonna make this simple: don't mention Showdown in edit summaries. If you feel you want to at some specific point in the future, feel free to ask on my talk page. We'll see if we can discuss it more, or at worst, perhaps you'll get a better idea of what I mean just by how I answer your different queries. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 13:51, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
:::::::::::...And that was just about the single worst decision to make, in my opinion. It may be simple solution, but it is a major restriction (well, it's still very minor in the grand scheme of things, but the most severe policy in regard to the topic at hand), and from what we've discussed here, I don't think it is justified at all. (I don't even know why you think it is.) Don't get me wrong, but I'm not willing to create that much overhead and ask for permission on whether I'm allowed to mention Showdown in an edit summary. Which means I'm gonna have to abstain from mentioning Showdown in edit summaries altogether, despite all arguments I mentioned. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 15:35, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
{{indent}}More or less all I'm saying is this is plainly not working as an abstract discussion. If you want to discuss a specific case, I'll be waiting. If not, that's fine too. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 16:20, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
:I feel you've clearly done more than that, honestly. I felt the discussion went well as per usual, until you went "don't mention Showdown in edit summaries." (But I still feel you have good intentions, as per usual.) But I really don't want to discuss specific cases. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 17:13, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
::"Well" is apparently a matter of perspective here. *I'm* not confident what saying "Yeah, okay" instead of "Don't mention Showdown" would have meant--that it ''wouldn't'' have ended up with you mentioning it somewhere I've been trying to say it isn't necessary. And I don't like continuing to discuss it abstractly. I'd much rather put it in the concrete terms of an actual case. Frankly, I can't see any case where mentioning Showdown would be useful, therefore I don't really feel my direction is a bad thing. But I was/am willing to be convinced if you can present a specific case that makes it clear. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 17:39, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
:::That I can do/try. [[Special:Diff/2522524|This]] edit summary would better read something like "''not including terrains and Knock Off although Showdown (or "another source" in general) suggests those''" or similar at the end; that's worth including imo because of what I said in my third edit here, timestamped 12:57. (Yes, it's also suited for a talk or user page, but that's not the point.) [[Special:Diff/2521555|This]] edit summary could have had "''UPC, backed up by Showdown''" because of what I said in my second edit here, timestamped 12:29 (I believe it didn't change / have no reason to believe it did change in Gen VI or something). (The edit summary you original came here for should have been different for the reason you gave in the very first post.)
:::And going the "in general" route: there's a difference between guidance and executive decision, or even infantilization. There's also a difference between prohibition except for approved exceptions (whitelisting) and allowance except for forbidden exceptions (blacklisting). [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 19:28, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
::::The one [[Special:Diff/2521555|on Gust]]: there's absolutely no reason to include any mention of Showdown. UPC alone is entirely sufficient. Showdown adds nothing and may imply to some that it's a trusted source. If you also want to record things that Showdown verifies continue the same into Gen VI, again, feel free to do that on a user page or something.
::::If you're doing something else at the same time, like [[Special:Diff/2522524|on Power]], then I suppose I don't mind if you say at the same time something like "Showdown suggests [whatever], should be investigated". (Basically, I'd be much at ease if somehow it's clear that Showdown by itself cannot be blindly trusted for making such an edit.) I don't honestly think that's the best recourse anyway if you're looking to notify/potentially include other users (the talk page seems a better option to me), but I'm not really going to try to convince you. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 19:57, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
:::::''Well, if you want to, I can abstain from making these affirmatives "no doubt" {{tt|edits|should be edit summaries, of course}}!''
:::::I too always wanted to convey that Showdown cannot/should not be blindly trusted. (And it's not so much that I want to ''notify'' others by the edit summaries, but really just be more transparent in what I'm doing etc.) The way I see it, everything is cleared up now (we're even of the same opinion for the most relevant part), and there's not a problem. Thank you. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 20:29, 22 October 2016 (UTC)

== [[Mount Lanakila]] and [[Blush Mountain]] ==

Hey, just for transparency I guess, I'd love to know about your source for the Sun encounter rates at Mount Lanakila and Blush Mountain. (It'd be really neat if it's a new dump or something I just haven't seen and could peruse myself as well.) Thanks! [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 00:09, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
:I feel a bit ashamed. Me not being transparent, sigh. What was the above section all about?
:I don't know about your source, but the German Pokéwiki seems to have a different one. For {{de|Glühberg}} and {{de|Mount Lanakila}} here, I made sure they started off with that data and that an admin added it, and that it actually makes sense (adds up to 100 etc.). You might want to get in touch with them maybe, especially because they sometimes added encounter rates for SOS Battles, though I assume (see [[Talk:SOS Battle]]) those might just be "base rates". At the very least, you can take a look at what they have when you're sure we have it wrong or not at all (which is what I'm doing a lot these days). [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 00:41, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
::This seems a bit passive aggressive.
::I'll leave it there and keep on doing what I can. Thanks. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 00:48, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
:::Huh, why? No, no, no. :( It was not meant like that, honestly. Why do I apparently often come across so harsh?
:::Maybe I should have separated my answer and my suggestion a little more. I don't know how close your (staff's) connection is to them, but if it's not totally out of reach, I could imagine it would be helpful to ask them. And looking at their pages often is. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 01:02, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
::::I guess I made the wrong connection(s) and didn't understand some of it right. I'm glad to know that, then. Sorry for the misunderstanding, and thanks again. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 01:23, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

== About {{a|Dazzling}}/{{a|Queenly Majesty}}. ==

Well, I got your message and I just wanted to apologize for the trouble as well as say that I've gotten what you told me.[[User:IM-T-MAN2|IM-T-MAN2]] ([[User talk:IM-T-MAN2|talk]]) 19:08, 13 December 2016 (UTC)

== Quick Claw ==

Hey, you seem to be better at reading the disassembly than me, so I'm asking you to try this instead. Can you work out the probability of Quick Claw activating in Generation II? I think it's related to [https://github.com/pret/pokecrystal/blob/050a0162b89c645c4a2a3ed311c4da791fb3de6c/battle/core.asm#L446 this section], but I'm confused where the variables that the random number is being compared to are coming from, which is what I would need to know to determine the probability. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 17:27, 8 February 2017 (UTC)
:Hm, those are always a hassle, and I'm still learning, so maybe you're better off asking {{u|Froggy25}} for more sophisticated/reliable information.
:Anyway, I believe the c value is [https://github.com/pret/pokecrystal/blob/700321a7fb2d6c852ffc91cc0b8867526cb76813/items/item_attributes.asm#L229 this 60], which is loaded in GetOpponentItem [https://github.com/pret/pokecrystal/blob/f0209d6ed6a0cd0e759dff49bdfe4d8171229c29/battle/effect_commands.asm#L9812 here]. The e value seems to be whatever is popped [https://github.com/pret/pokecrystal/blob/f0209d6ed6a0cd0e759dff49bdfe4d8171229c29/battle/core.asm#L495 here], and it's really hard to track down where it was originally pushed, but I believe it might have been [https://github.com/pret/pokecrystal/blob/f0209d6ed6a0cd0e759dff49bdfe4d8171229c29/battle/core.asm#L378 here] at some point (and maybe dynamically at other locations in a similar manner); anyway, it would make sense for it to be that same 60 as well (the player's held Quick Claw parameter).
:That would amount to ~24% chance of activation. Also note that UPC (also) [http://upcarchive.playker.info/0/upokecenter/content/comparative-item-list.html say] it is 15/64 (although I believe it is 60/255, not 60/254, and they say GS not C). [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 15:35, 9 February 2017 (UTC)
::Pushing/popping moves things to/from the '''stack'''. The stack is a last-in, first-out structure; if you push 1, then 2, then 3, your first pop is 3, then 2, then 1. A push instruction just says "take the value from this variable (bc, de, whatever) and put it on the stack", and a pop instruction says "take the current value from the top of the stack and store it in this variable (bc, de, whatever)". That is, it doesn't in any way remember "They pushed 'bc' before, but they're popping 'de' now, so that's something different". There's only ONE, "dumb" stack.
::FYI, as far as I know, most of the time, pushing and popping should pretty much exclusively be a way for a function to preserve variables, since CPUs only have a limited number of available registers; when another function is called, it may very well need to use registers that the caller wasn't finished with, so they get stored on the stack so that the caller can restore those values after the called function returns. That is, you usually shouldn't have to look far to see where a popped value was pushed, and/or you don't usually have to worry about if it was pushed by a called function. Specifically, in the crystal disassembly, you were right about where you said 'e' was popped in, above, but it was only pushed a couple lines before that, not far away. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 15:59, 9 February 2017 (UTC)
:::I know what a stack is, I just thought they used different ones. But yeah, in that case, e is the player's held item's 60 (from GetUserItem) and c the opponent's (GetOpponentItem). [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 16:12, 9 February 2017 (UTC)

== Damage article ==

Hello, I checked around and could not find where you got permission to make the changes to that article. If you want to mainspace something from your userspace, you have to ask a staff member for approval to move it. As for my opinion, technical aspects of the franchise is not something I have knowledge or interests in, so I can't have a say. Thank you.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 05:06, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
:Hm, this comes as a surprise, actually. This is something I've worked on for a long time, with an enormous amount of effort, discussion, sourcing, and (at least sometimes) coordination, with Tiddlywinks in particular. If that doesn't constitute as "permission", and if you feel that indeed (more) permission was required, then I apologize. (But then I should also mention that this change involved updating formula images on the Archives, and if you rollback what I did on bp, you'd have to rollback on the Archives as well.)
:As far as I'm concerned, although the change in bytes looks horrific, it was merely a rearrangement and corrections of the page itself (that just has been prepared in my userspace rather than the editor), and not a move, actual "merge", or a BIG big change really. (I even did not touch anything on "type effectiveness" out there, which should be the most "controversial" part.) [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 05:41, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
::You still need to ask for permission to move the final product, countless prior discussions does not mean you have permission. Regardless of it being an update of the page, you still need permission to '''move''' it (not merge, there's a very specific way to merge pages, which only admins can do). Also, I'm not an admin at the archives, so I don't have the power to revert an upload.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 05:53, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
:::I know that this (generally) is the case for page moves or merges, but what I want to say is that this was neither. Basically, what I did is prepare an edit (a moderately large one, but still an ordinary rearrange/correct edit) publicly in a userpage (and extensively discussed etc.), and then merged it in to preserve edit histories for everyone (by preserving concurrent edits on both ends, which should be usual procedure for a (pseudo-)merge like this, admin or ordinary editor). It still surprises me (I thought I had almost done ''too'' much). [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 06:16, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

== Regarding your Nightmare edit comment ==

Note that "---" in general means accuracy bypass, but 100% should remain since that's how it is in III and onwards. --[[User:FIQ|FIQ]] ([[User talk:FIQ|talk]]) 17:16, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
:I meant something like "{{tt|100|— in Generation II}}%", which is the format we do for [[List of modified moves#Accuracy changes|other modified moves]]. It may make sense here, even more so as you cannot observe that "100%" in-game anyway (although that's what it still is technically), but I'm also ok with it being in the prose only. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 17:37, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

== Mathematical formulae ==

Hello! Since you have shown interest in this area in the past, I thought I might consult with you about an idea I had for an article. Mostly, I think it would be a good idea to bring together the various information on formulae in the games, especially the earlier ones for which more information is known (due to the disassemblies). Additionally, it would probably be nice to be able to explain the exact algorithm used in each case, including the order in which operations are applied (this affects how rounding works, for example) and how working values are stored (especially quotients) since this can affect accuracy of results. See [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Talk:Experience#Blue.27s_Lv5_Eevee_in_Yellow_yields_97_Exp._instead_of_98_Exp._Why.3F this section] for a look at what got me thinking this might be a good idea.

This is too big a project to do on my own, so I want to gauge community interest and see if someone knowledgeable about the game mechanics might be able to help out. --[[User:Felthry|Felthry]] ([[User talk:Felthry|talk]]) 19:06, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
:I guess I'm certainly one of the firmest supporters of more community crowdsourcing efforts, and if it's within my area of expertise, I'm likely willing to contribute there. Especially when someone is asking who is also been giving.
:My problem right now is that I can't really envision what you're aiming at. Would it be a game mechanic article (in the spirit of [[Character encoding in Generation I]]) with headings such as "Division", or one with headings such as "Experience", or something else? Would it be something you're being linked to, basically detail subpages? What would be the benefit of that article, what information would it have that [[Experience]] etc. wouldn't have? Or wouldn't it be intended for mainspace, be more like a manual on technicalities, or like some sort of code inspection hub?
:And then there's my "In general" opinion piece nobody has asked for: when there's formulae involved, the two goals of "accuracy" and "simplicity" may often conflict. I always try to find a decent compromise, one that's at least "not inaccurate" but "understandable". I think technobabble never ''really'' makes sense, especially when it's about a children's game after all. Actually, I think this is a problem Wikipedia has (or had) with math-heavy articles: they describe concepts accurately, but at the cost that only mathematicians understand them. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 10:28, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
::I was thinking something like [[Character encoding in Generation I]], to use your example. I mostly thought of this while trying to make some sense of the code; I found there didn't seem to be any sort of resources on the game's detailed mechanics and computational algorithms anywhere on the internet and that is something I would like to have. "code inspection hub" sounds like about what I'd want, but a manual on technicalities is probably more encyclopaedic. --[[User:Felthry|Felthry]] ([[User talk:Felthry|talk]]) 16:07, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
:::I still can't grasp it. Roughly like Spading for math/code details only? Maybe try to draft it, then I might understand it better?
:::(If you intend it for mainspace, that's really hard for me to imagine as an independent article, but if it's for userspace, or <code>Appendix</code>, then it ''might'' be a good idea.)
:::I'm not interested in learning ''everything'' about assembly just to technobabble about it, but otherwise, if it's useful, generally, I could definitely (at least!) try to support you along the way? [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 17:42, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
::::I'll try to draft something up at some point to see if it's even worth doing.
::::I'm the sort of person who wants the highest accuracy possible, even at the expense of legibility, though of course a low-accuracy high-legibility article should accompany any particularly arcane article. --[[User:Felthry|Felthry]] ([[User talk:Felthry|talk]]) 19:50, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

User talk:Nescientist/Archive01

2017-03-18T16:07:41Z

Felthry: /* Mathematical formulae */

User talk:Nescientist/Archive01

2017-03-17T19:06:49Z

Felthry: /* Mathematical formulae */ link formatting, oops

User talk:Nescientist/Archive01

2017-03-17T19:06:20Z

Felthry: /* Mathematical formulae */ new section

{| cellspacing="7" class="roundy" style="margin:auto; border: 1px solid #3e7614; background: #FFFFFF;"
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|}

== Apology ==

Sorry for editing your userspace article without your permission. I failed to see your name in the article heading and only realized my mistake when you mentioned that it might be ready for mainspacing. Sorry for the trouble. --[[User:Super goku|Super goku]] ([[User talk:Super goku|talk]]) 14:48, 10 July 2016 (UTC)
:Yeah, no worries. I did ask for exactly the source you provided, so I'd rather thank you. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 15:33, 10 July 2016 (UTC)

== Effect section guidelines ==

I've actually talked about that with [[User_talk:SnorlaxMonster/Archive/7#Moves_articles|an admin few years ago]], then kinda forgot about doing anything with it. [[User:Eridanus|Eridanus]] ([[User talk:Eridanus|talk]]) 12:04, 1 September 2016 (UTC)
:Ah, thanks, good to know. So SnorlaxMonster and I seem to agree on what is most reasonable in that regard. Anyway, our current move articles currently do (generally) '''not''' follow that "subsection only when changed" part (as well as some other ideas of the guideline), which has bothered me for a while. Right now, you basically have to read ''everything'' to know what you want to know in most cases. But I think especially if someone edits (almost) all move articles anyway (and I think between Tiddlywinks and myself, there's some chance in the near future), it might be a good idea to also ''adapt'' (after some kind of discussion/approval). If you have anything to add (or discuss), by all means, please feel free! [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 13:35, 1 September 2016 (UTC)
::I might add some moves' data (and maybe item locations as they're kinda lacking) on Mystery Dungeon spin-offs sometime in the future, once I figure out how moves work (this is not helped by the fact that Gates and Super have moves work differently than in the older games, like how Pursuit went from inflicting status on the user to an actual damaging move). [[User:Eridanus|Eridanus]] ([[User talk:Eridanus|talk]]) 14:09, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

== Meowth Theater ==

Hey there, just wanted to tell you that the Italian names for the Meowth Theater dungeons are listed {{it|Mondo Pokémon (Mystery Dungeon)#Super Mystery Dungeon|here on Pokémon Central Wiki}}, it would be nice if you could add them on the pages when you create them though they don't say what they are based on. --[[User:Raltseye|Raltseye]] [[User talk:Raltseye|prata med mej]] 12:09, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
:Seems not too hard to find out. Thanks! [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 12:12, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
::Nice, you're welcome. I'll be adding the Spanish and French names in a while as they're not listed at neither Poképédia nor WikiDex. --[[User:Raltseye|Raltseye]] [[User talk:Raltseye|prata med mej]] 13:26, 6 October 2016 (UTC)

== Showdown ==

When you mention Showdown like [[Special:Diff/2522503|this]], it sounds ilke it's an accepted source. In the same way as if someone mentioned Serebii in an edit summary, I'd just like to advise you to please avoid doing this, if only because it may give other users the wrong idea. Just find another justification, and that's all you need to communicate. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 11:42, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
:You're right, I'm usually more careful. I should've used nothing, or "backed up by". [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 11:49, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
::You shouldn't really need to note Showdown at all. If you want to remember it for yourself or something, perhaps you can make a userpage (or some file on your own computer). [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 12:06, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
:::I'm keeping track, that's not the reason I write that in edit summaries. These "backed up by" statements are actually meant for other users. I see no reason not to explain to all Bulbapedia editors what I do, or why I do it in as much detail as possible (and reasonable), so that they at least do have the opportunity to reproduce/understand it, or tell that I've checked Showdown for that particular move/Ability ''as well'' and have absolutely no reason to doubt what Bulbapedia currently says. (And most specifically, I guess, that's you.) So I feel I ''should'' note that, actually. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 12:29, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
::::But if we don't accept Showdown, *I* don't really care about it. And no one else should either, at least not in making decisions about what's on a page. Those decisions should be made without the "benefit" of Showdown. Either you can back up what you're doing without referencing Showdown, or you shouldn't be making the edit in the first place. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 12:39, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
:::::I know Showdown is not an accepted source; it doesn't influence whether I add something to a page. When Showdown contradicts Bulbapedia, I don't just add it to pages. Never have. Explicitly asked for whether I could, but accepted I could not. I leave them as they are.
:::::However, contradictions are issues that should (ideally) be resolved. Had I not checked Showdown, I wouldn't have tested Heat Crash, and VioletPumpkin wouldn't have tested Whirlwind (well, I don't know, but maybe). Why should I withhold information? (And with that, I mean that I've read what Showdown says, not that it's necessarily accurate.) [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 12:57, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
::::::None of your examples above include any reason why you would need to mention Showdown in an edit summary. If you notice that Showdown says Heat Crash does something we don't say...at that point, there's nothing you need to edit. If you proceed to test Heat Crash and determine that Showdown is right...you still don't need to mention Showdown. "I tested this and discovered that it actually works like this" is perfectly fine, and/or is not helped by adding any mention of Showdown. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 13:06, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
:::::::I'm not sure if you just don't get it or something. "At that point" is exactly where I want to (or more precisely, should be able to) make public that I've checked Showdown, and that it contradicts. So anyone is able to know, and can potentially maybe even do something about solving the apparent contradiction issue. It doesn't matter whether that's on a user page, a talk page, or an edit summary (i.e., of a sensible, related edit). It just mustn't be on a mainspace page (coz it's unsourced/unconfirmed). [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 13:23, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
::::::::Then you've completely veered away from where this started, making an "affirmative" edit (so to speak) and "citing" Showdown. If there's other support, Showdown doesn't need mentioning.
::::::::As for noting where Showdown contradicts something, I don't think I care if you mention Showdown as the source of doubt. But I'm not sure that Showdown (all by itself) contradicting BP would be a reason to make ''any'' sort of edit to a mainspace page... If you want to say something on the talk page, though, that's great. (Personally, I'd say that a user page might be better, or at least if you can link to a user page, just so people can find all the contradictions you've discovered together rather than just stumbling upon one or two on different talk pages.) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 13:34, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
:::::::::Well, if you want to, I can abstain from making these affirmatives "no doubt" edits!? It's just that they're explicitly affirming there is ''not'' a doubt, not merely ''not'' affirming there is a doubt.
:::::::::Yes, right now, I'm gathering contradictions. As I said to you on your talk page, I will go to talk pages or create a user page with collected contradictions depending on how many there are ("''Depending on how much "Showdown-exclusive" info it will be...''") . [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 13:44, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
::::::::::I'm just gonna make this simple: don't mention Showdown in edit summaries. If you feel you want to at some specific point in the future, feel free to ask on my talk page. We'll see if we can discuss it more, or at worst, perhaps you'll get a better idea of what I mean just by how I answer your different queries. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 13:51, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
:::::::::::...And that was just about the single worst decision to make, in my opinion. It may be simple solution, but it is a major restriction (well, it's still very minor in the grand scheme of things, but the most severe policy in regard to the topic at hand), and from what we've discussed here, I don't think it is justified at all. (I don't even know why you think it is.) Don't get me wrong, but I'm not willing to create that much overhead and ask for permission on whether I'm allowed to mention Showdown in an edit summary. Which means I'm gonna have to abstain from mentioning Showdown in edit summaries altogether, despite all arguments I mentioned. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 15:35, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
{{indent}}More or less all I'm saying is this is plainly not working as an abstract discussion. If you want to discuss a specific case, I'll be waiting. If not, that's fine too. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 16:20, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
:I feel you've clearly done more than that, honestly. I felt the discussion went well as per usual, until you went "don't mention Showdown in edit summaries." (But I still feel you have good intentions, as per usual.) But I really don't want to discuss specific cases. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 17:13, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
::"Well" is apparently a matter of perspective here. *I'm* not confident what saying "Yeah, okay" instead of "Don't mention Showdown" would have meant--that it ''wouldn't'' have ended up with you mentioning it somewhere I've been trying to say it isn't necessary. And I don't like continuing to discuss it abstractly. I'd much rather put it in the concrete terms of an actual case. Frankly, I can't see any case where mentioning Showdown would be useful, therefore I don't really feel my direction is a bad thing. But I was/am willing to be convinced if you can present a specific case that makes it clear. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 17:39, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
:::That I can do/try. [[Special:Diff/2522524|This]] edit summary would better read something like "''not including terrains and Knock Off although Showdown (or "another source" in general) suggests those''" or similar at the end; that's worth including imo because of what I said in my third edit here, timestamped 12:57. (Yes, it's also suited for a talk or user page, but that's not the point.) [[Special:Diff/2521555|This]] edit summary could have had "''UPC, backed up by Showdown''" because of what I said in my second edit here, timestamped 12:29 (I believe it didn't change / have no reason to believe it did change in Gen VI or something). (The edit summary you original came here for should have been different for the reason you gave in the very first post.)
:::And going the "in general" route: there's a difference between guidance and executive decision, or even infantilization. There's also a difference between prohibition except for approved exceptions (whitelisting) and allowance except for forbidden exceptions (blacklisting). [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 19:28, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
::::The one [[Special:Diff/2521555|on Gust]]: there's absolutely no reason to include any mention of Showdown. UPC alone is entirely sufficient. Showdown adds nothing and may imply to some that it's a trusted source. If you also want to record things that Showdown verifies continue the same into Gen VI, again, feel free to do that on a user page or something.
::::If you're doing something else at the same time, like [[Special:Diff/2522524|on Power]], then I suppose I don't mind if you say at the same time something like "Showdown suggests [whatever], should be investigated". (Basically, I'd be much at ease if somehow it's clear that Showdown by itself cannot be blindly trusted for making such an edit.) I don't honestly think that's the best recourse anyway if you're looking to notify/potentially include other users (the talk page seems a better option to me), but I'm not really going to try to convince you. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 19:57, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
:::::''Well, if you want to, I can abstain from making these affirmatives "no doubt" {{tt|edits|should be edit summaries, of course}}!''
:::::I too always wanted to convey that Showdown cannot/should not be blindly trusted. (And it's not so much that I want to ''notify'' others by the edit summaries, but really just be more transparent in what I'm doing etc.) The way I see it, everything is cleared up now (we're even of the same opinion for the most relevant part), and there's not a problem. Thank you. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 20:29, 22 October 2016 (UTC)

== [[Mount Lanakila]] and [[Blush Mountain]] ==

Hey, just for transparency I guess, I'd love to know about your source for the Sun encounter rates at Mount Lanakila and Blush Mountain. (It'd be really neat if it's a new dump or something I just haven't seen and could peruse myself as well.) Thanks! [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 00:09, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
:I feel a bit ashamed. Me not being transparent, sigh. What was the above section all about?
:I don't know about your source, but the German Pokéwiki seems to have a different one. For {{de|Glühberg}} and {{de|Mount Lanakila}} here, I made sure they started off with that data and that an admin added it, and that it actually makes sense (adds up to 100 etc.). You might want to get in touch with them maybe, especially because they sometimes added encounter rates for SOS Battles, though I assume (see [[Talk:SOS Battle]]) those might just be "base rates". At the very least, you can take a look at what they have when you're sure we have it wrong or not at all (which is what I'm doing a lot these days). [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 00:41, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
::This seems a bit passive aggressive.
::I'll leave it there and keep on doing what I can. Thanks. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 00:48, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
:::Huh, why? No, no, no. :( It was not meant like that, honestly. Why do I apparently often come across so harsh?
:::Maybe I should have separated my answer and my suggestion a little more. I don't know how close your (staff's) connection is to them, but if it's not totally out of reach, I could imagine it would be helpful to ask them. And looking at their pages often is. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 01:02, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
::::I guess I made the wrong connection(s) and didn't understand some of it right. I'm glad to know that, then. Sorry for the misunderstanding, and thanks again. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 01:23, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

== About {{a|Dazzling}}/{{a|Queenly Majesty}}. ==

Well, I got your message and I just wanted to apologize for the trouble as well as say that I've gotten what you told me.[[User:IM-T-MAN2|IM-T-MAN2]] ([[User talk:IM-T-MAN2|talk]]) 19:08, 13 December 2016 (UTC)

== Quick Claw ==

Hey, you seem to be better at reading the disassembly than me, so I'm asking you to try this instead. Can you work out the probability of Quick Claw activating in Generation II? I think it's related to [https://github.com/pret/pokecrystal/blob/050a0162b89c645c4a2a3ed311c4da791fb3de6c/battle/core.asm#L446 this section], but I'm confused where the variables that the random number is being compared to are coming from, which is what I would need to know to determine the probability. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 17:27, 8 February 2017 (UTC)
:Hm, those are always a hassle, and I'm still learning, so maybe you're better off asking {{u|Froggy25}} for more sophisticated/reliable information.
:Anyway, I believe the c value is [https://github.com/pret/pokecrystal/blob/700321a7fb2d6c852ffc91cc0b8867526cb76813/items/item_attributes.asm#L229 this 60], which is loaded in GetOpponentItem [https://github.com/pret/pokecrystal/blob/f0209d6ed6a0cd0e759dff49bdfe4d8171229c29/battle/effect_commands.asm#L9812 here]. The e value seems to be whatever is popped [https://github.com/pret/pokecrystal/blob/f0209d6ed6a0cd0e759dff49bdfe4d8171229c29/battle/core.asm#L495 here], and it's really hard to track down where it was originally pushed, but I believe it might have been [https://github.com/pret/pokecrystal/blob/f0209d6ed6a0cd0e759dff49bdfe4d8171229c29/battle/core.asm#L378 here] at some point (and maybe dynamically at other locations in a similar manner); anyway, it would make sense for it to be that same 60 as well (the player's held Quick Claw parameter).
:That would amount to ~24% chance of activation. Also note that UPC (also) [http://upcarchive.playker.info/0/upokecenter/content/comparative-item-list.html say] it is 15/64 (although I believe it is 60/255, not 60/254, and they say GS not C). [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 15:35, 9 February 2017 (UTC)
::Pushing/popping moves things to/from the '''stack'''. The stack is a last-in, first-out structure; if you push 1, then 2, then 3, your first pop is 3, then 2, then 1. A push instruction just says "take the value from this variable (bc, de, whatever) and put it on the stack", and a pop instruction says "take the current value from the top of the stack and store it in this variable (bc, de, whatever)". That is, it doesn't in any way remember "They pushed 'bc' before, but they're popping 'de' now, so that's something different". There's only ONE, "dumb" stack.
::FYI, as far as I know, most of the time, pushing and popping should pretty much exclusively be a way for a function to preserve variables, since CPUs only have a limited number of available registers; when another function is called, it may very well need to use registers that the caller wasn't finished with, so they get stored on the stack so that the caller can restore those values after the called function returns. That is, you usually shouldn't have to look far to see where a popped value was pushed, and/or you don't usually have to worry about if it was pushed by a called function. Specifically, in the crystal disassembly, you were right about where you said 'e' was popped in, above, but it was only pushed a couple lines before that, not far away. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 15:59, 9 February 2017 (UTC)
:::I know what a stack is, I just thought they used different ones. But yeah, in that case, e is the player's held item's 60 (from GetUserItem) and c the opponent's (GetOpponentItem). [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 16:12, 9 February 2017 (UTC)

== Damage article ==

Hello, I checked around and could not find where you got permission to make the changes to that article. If you want to mainspace something from your userspace, you have to ask a staff member for approval to move it. As for my opinion, technical aspects of the franchise is not something I have knowledge or interests in, so I can't have a say. Thank you.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 05:06, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
:Hm, this comes as a surprise, actually. This is something I've worked on for a long time, with an enormous amount of effort, discussion, sourcing, and (at least sometimes) coordination, with Tiddlywinks in particular. If that doesn't constitute as "permission", and if you feel that indeed (more) permission was required, then I apologize. (But then I should also mention that this change involved updating formula images on the Archives, and if you rollback what I did on bp, you'd have to rollback on the Archives as well.)
:As far as I'm concerned, although the change in bytes looks horrific, it was merely a rearrangement and corrections of the page itself (that just has been prepared in my userspace rather than the editor), and not a move, actual "merge", or a BIG big change really. (I even did not touch anything on "type effectiveness" out there, which should be the most "controversial" part.) [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 05:41, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
::You still need to ask for permission to move the final product, countless prior discussions does not mean you have permission. Regardless of it being an update of the page, you still need permission to '''move''' it (not merge, there's a very specific way to merge pages, which only admins can do). Also, I'm not an admin at the archives, so I don't have the power to revert an upload.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 05:53, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
:::I know that this (generally) is the case for page moves or merges, but what I want to say is that this was neither. Basically, what I did is prepare an edit (a moderately large one, but still an ordinary rearrange/correct edit) publicly in a userpage (and extensively discussed etc.), and then merged it in to preserve edit histories for everyone (by preserving concurrent edits on both ends, which should be usual procedure for a (pseudo-)merge like this, admin or ordinary editor). It still surprises me (I thought I had almost done ''too'' much). [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 06:16, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

== Regarding your Nightmare edit comment ==

Note that "---" in general means accuracy bypass, but 100% should remain since that's how it is in III and onwards. --[[User:FIQ|FIQ]] ([[User talk:FIQ|talk]]) 17:16, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
:I meant something like "{{tt|100|— in Generation II}}%", which is the format we do for [[List of modified moves#Accuracy changes|other modified moves]]. It may make sense here, even more so as you cannot observe that "100%" in-game anyway (although that's what it still is technically), but I'm also ok with it being in the prose only. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 17:37, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

== Mathematical formulae ==

Hello! Since you have shown interest in this area in the past, I thought I might consult with you about an idea I had for an article. Mostly, I think it would be a good idea to bring together the various information on formulae in the games, especially the earlier ones for which more information is known (due to the disassemblies). Additionally, it would probably be nice to be able to explain the exact algorithm used in each case, including the order in which operations are applied (this affects how rounding works, for example) and how working values are stored (especially quotients) since this can affect accuracy of results. See [[http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Talk:Experience#Blue.27s_Lv5_Eevee_in_Yellow_yields_97_Exp._instead_of_98_Exp._Why.3F|this section]] for a look at what got me thinking this might be a good idea.

This is too big a project to do on my own, so I want to gauge community interest and see if someone knowledgeable about the game mechanics might be able to help out. --[[User:Felthry|Felthry]] ([[User talk:Felthry|talk]]) 19:06, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

Talk:Experience

2017-03-17T19:00:51Z

Felthry: /* Blue's Lv5 Eevee in Yellow yields 97 Exp. instead of 98 Exp. Why? */

== The erratic formula ==

Erratic (600000)
E = -1/50*l^4 + 2*l^3 for level<=50

http://www.math.miami.edu/~jam/azure/forum/tuff/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=001260

It's mentioned in the thread that level 45 does not work for that. Level 45 is 100273, not 100237. [[User:Sheep|Sheep]] 16:42, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Nevermind the previous message, I figured it out myself. [[User:Sheep|Sheep]] 18:09, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)

== Simplify the formulas ==

<pre>
Was that copied from matlab or something? It can be simplified...

((0.814 - 0.02*(((n - 69) / 3) - (((n - 69) / 3) modulo 1)) - ep(((n - 69) modulo 3))(n^3)

((0.814 - 0.02*(((n - 69) / 3) - float_part((n - 69) / 3) ) - ep(((n - 69) modulo 3))(n^3)
((0.814 - 0.02*( int((n - 69) / 3) ) - ep(((n - 69) modulo 3))(n^3)
((0.814 - 0.02*( int(n/3 - 23) ) - ep(((n - 69) modulo 3))(n^3)
((0.814 + 0.46 - 0.02*( int(n/3) ) - ep(((n - 69) modulo 3))(n^3)

int( ( 1.274 - 0.02*(int(n/3)) - ep(n%3) ) * (n^3) )
That would be easier to read.
</pre>

<pre>2*(1 - 0.01n)*(n3)
= int( 2n3 - 0.02n4 )</pre>

<pre>( 1 - ((n - 50)*0.01) ) * (n^3)
= int( 1.5n3 - 0.01n4 )</pre>

<pre>(1.6 - 0.01n) * (n3)
= int( 1.6n3 - 0.01n4 )</pre>



[[User:Qgpr|Qgpr]]03:05, 01 Mar 2005

I really want to avoid using expressions that are not standard math notation. I don't even know if there's a way to represent some integer rounding using standard math notation, just some pseudo-code, that's why I stuck mod 1 subtraction in there. My plan was to simplify/clean it up once TeX was implemented on bulbapedia.

In the meanwhile you can simplify them. Just keep "mod" or "modulo" instead of "%" and avoid "int()." [[User:Sheep|Sheep]] 20:20, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC)

The big problem is that when I first read that I got confused. No person that would bother to understand that formula wouldn't know how to program anyways, to represent that rounding you use ||x|| I think, maximum integer, unless I got the symbol wrong, long time I don't touch math.
I'll leave that formula but also add the simplification for anyone that wants someting simplier to read.
I will also simplify your standard math formulas, but won't add the ||x|| because I am not sure if its the right symbol, those - 69 can be taken out of modulo since they will be equal to zero.
[[User:Qgpr|Qgpr]] 20:03, 5 Mar 2005 (GMT-5)

: |x| is modul'''us''' - gives the absolute value of function, i.e. |-0.5| = 0.5. Modul'''o''' is simply represented as ''mod'' in mathematics. Anyway, while we do not have TeX at the moment, you can try this instead - leave the original math formula as a <nowiki></nowiki>, and copy the image from Wikipedia (it will generate the image on preview, so you can download that and reupload it here. Don't overdo it of course.)

: ||x|| ( double | ) is what I was taught here at college, but I guess is not an standard, however I found what it seems is the standard, and used the UTF code to show it. However <*pre> is not happy with <*sub>, you should find a way around because mine doesn't look that good. By the way it was "greatest integer" not maximum, problems for using a direct translation. [[User:Qgpr|Qgpr]] 22:16, 5 Mar 2005 (GMT-5)

First shot at a TeX markup image. Using

<pre>
\begin{math}
b \star x \rightarrow \frac{b}{x} - (\frac{b}{x}\;mod\;1)
\end{math}

\addvspace{.2cm}

\begin{math}
e(n) = \left\{
\begin{array}{clrr}
n^3(\frac{100 - n}{50}); & 0 < n \leq 50 \\*
n^3(\frac{150 - n}{100}); & 51 \leq n \leq 68 \\*
n^3(1.274 - \frac{1}{50}(n\star3) - p(n\;mod\;3)); & 69 \leq n \leq 98 \\*
n^3(\frac{160 - n}{100}); & 99 \leq n \leq 100 \\*
\end{array}
\right\}
\end{math}

\addvspace{.2cm}

\begin{math}
p(x) = \left\{
\begin{array}{clrr}
0.000; & x = 0 \\*
0.008; & x = 1 \\*
0.014; & x = 2 \\*
\end{array}
\right\}
\end{math}
</pre>

I came up with

Kind of cramped. Does it meet the approval of you two? Looking for revisions before I even post it. Especially since I forgot how to properly represent a custom operator (\star). Is that how? [[User:Sheep|Sheep]] 03:32, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)

This seems better:
<pre>\begin{equation}
E(n) = \left\{ \begin{array}{ll}
\frac{n^{3} \left(100 - n\right)}{50}, & \textrm{if $0 < n \leq 50$} \\
\frac{n^{3} \left(150 - n\right)}{100}, & \textrm{if $51 < n \leq 68$} \\
n^{3} \left(1.274 - \frac{1}{50}\left\lfloor\frac{n}{3}\right\rfloor -p\left(n \bmod 3\right)\right), & \textrm{if $69 < n \leq 98$} \\
\frac{n^{3} \left(160 - n\right)}{100}, & \textrm{if $99 < n \leq 100$}
\end{array}\right.
\end{equation}

\begin{equation}
p(m) = \left\{ \begin{array}{ll}
0.000, & \textrm{if $m = 0$} \\
0.008, & \textrm{if $m = 1$} \\
0.014, & \textrm{if $m = 2$}
\end{array}\right.
\end{equation}
</pre>

But when I tested it on Wikipedia, there were a few problems, so if we do get around to installing Texvc, we'll have to go hammer those problems out. Also, I'd appreciate it if we could find the exact fractions for those decimalised numbers - after all, the computer works in binary, not decimal - hence we won't have 0.008, we might instead have 523/65536 (or maybe 8/1000, but the result would still be stored as a binary fraction) - [[User:Zhen Lin|刘 (劉) 振霖]] 07:22, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I updated texerratic.png up there with something that looks more like yours. I didn't use Wikipedia for mine, I was using TeXnicCenter. I think the decimals are all right how they are, because they actually are more correct. I don't know exactly how the games handle decimal arithmetic, but it appears that the formulas use values accurate to 3 decimal places. (525/65536) or (523/65536) are not exactly 0.008, and if you put in those values, you'll get numbers that are off (I got about 6 points off for level 70). [[User:Sheep|Sheep]] 13:47, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Mmm. Since the experience points have to be accurate to about 7sf - I think the fractions should therefore be accurate to 7sf as well. But it might well be that they did use integer multiplication + division (× 8 ÷ 1000) rather than a simpler constant floating point multiplication (× (1 + 402653/224) × 2-7) - which is approximately how accurate a single-precision IEEE 754 binary fraction is. Funnily enough, IEEE 754 single-precision fractions are accurate to approx 7sf (without exponentiation) by defintion (this one is 0.008 correct to 11sf)). - [[User:Zhen Lin|刘 (劉) 振霖]] 14:40, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Hmm. I just learned from Meowth that the game simply stores the values for these as constants in the game, so the fractions are just best-fit and the formula is not used in-game - [[User:Zhen Lin|刘 (劉) 振霖]] 14:44, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)

So we need to reach a conclusion. There will be a note added that says these values are stored in the game as constants, not calculated. The formulas, I guess, do not have to be specific to any system of number storage now, so are we saying that the decimal constants are acceptable? [[User:Sheep|Sheep]] 15:04, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)

===quick question===
Why does Level redirect here? An even better question is, why does this page link to Level, thus linking back to itself? --[[user:greengiant|greengiant]]

Sorry my reply is formatted wrong, I don't know how to do it normally yet. Anyway, the last time I checked, [[Level]] is its own, seperate article. Maybe they fixed the problem you saw before. {{SUBST:Superbreeder]] [[User talk:Superbreeder|What's up?]] 23:30, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

== Modify this! ==

Can someone modify the erratic and the fluctuating part of experience? I want to understand it like all the other ones!

:I think those formulas should be explained. It would help quite a lot of people who want to understand those formulas but haven't seen them before.[[User:Dullstar|Dullstar]] 02:16, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

== Color-Coded ==

I color-coded the exp type descriptions to more-or-less match the colors used on the graph. I did this to make it easier to distinguish them from eachother. I wonder where I can find the look-up table in the game, I bet I can simplify those two honking large piecewise formulas. [[User:Twigpi|Twigpi]] 15:51, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
:See [http://www.upokecenter.com/games/rs/guides/exptable.html http://www.upokecenter.com/games/rs/guides/exptable.html]. The "1,050,000" in one of the top columns is a typo (should be "1,059,860"). At Level 1, the Experience is always "0" (here, they have it at "1"). [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 22:53, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

== Organize Pokémon ==

I really think there should be either a list of Pokémon by experience types or a category for each type. You can find out on each particular Pokémon's page, but there is no way to find Pokémon based on their experience type. [[User:Cheesus Is Lord|Cheesus Is Lord]] 13:23 23 January 2008

:Here is the whole list. Someone could modify it and put it into the main article.
<pre>
600000
Nincada/Ninjask/Shedinja
Volbeat
Swablu/Altaria
Zangoose
Lileep/Cradily
Anorith/Armaldo
Feebas/Milotic
Clamperl/Huntail/Gorebyss
Cranidos/Rampardos
Shieldon/Bastiodon
Finneon/Lumineon

800000
Cleffa/Clefairy/Clefable
Igglybuff/Jigglypuff/Wigglytuff
Happiny/Chansey/Blissey
Ledyba/Ledian
Spinarak/Ariados
Togepi/Togetic/Togekiss
Marill/Azumarill
Aipom/Ambipom
Misdreavus/Mismagius
Snubbull/Granbull
Corsola
Delibird
Smeargle
Skitty/Delcatty
Mawile
Spoink/Grumpig
Spinda
Lunatone
Solrock
Shuppet/Banette
Duskull/Dusclops/Dusknoir
Chingling/Chimecho
Luvdisc
Glameow/Purugly

1000000
Caterpie/Metapod/Butterfree
Weedle/Kakuna/Beedrill
Rattata/Raticate
Spearow/Fearow
Ekans/Arbok
Pichu/Pikachu/Raichu
Sandshrew/Sandslash
Vulpix/Ninetales
Zubat/Golbat/Crobat
Paras/Parasect
Venonat/Venomoth
Diglett/Dugtrio
Meowth/Persian
Psyduck/Golduck
Mankey/Primeape
Ponyta/Rapidash
Slowpoke/Slowbro/Slowking
Magnemite/Magneton/Magnezone
Farfetch'd
Doduo/Dodrio
Seel/Dewgong
Grimer/Muk
Onix/Steelix
Drowzee/Hypno
Krabby/Kingler
Voltorb/Electrode
Cubone/Marowak
Tyrogue/Hitmonlee/Hitmonchan/Hitmontop
Lickitung/Lickilicky
Koffing/Weezing
Tangela/Tangrowth
Kangaskhan
Horsea/Seadra/Kingdra
Goldeen/Seaking
Mime Jr./Mr. Mime
Scyther/Scizor
Smoochum/Jynx
Elekid/Electabuzz/Electivire
Magby/Magmar/Magmortar
Ditto
Eevee/Vaporeon/Jolteon/Flareon/Espeon/Umbreon/Leafeon/Glaceon
Porygon/Porygon2/Porygon-Z
Omanyte/Omastar
Kabuto/Kabutops
Sentret/Furret
Hoothoot/Noctowl
Natu/Xatu
Bonsly/Sudowoodo
Yanma/Yanmega
Wooper/Quagsire
Unown
Wobbuffet
Girafarig
Dunsparce
Qwilfish
Teddiursa/Ursaring
Slugma/Magcargo
Remoraid/Octillery
Phanpy/Donphan
Poochyena/Mightyena
Zigzagoon/Linoone
Wurmple/Silcoon/Beautifly/Cascoon/Dustox
Wingull/Pelipper
Surskit/Masquerain
Nosepass/Probopass
Meditite/Medicham
Plusle
Minun
Numel/Camerupt
Torkoal
Barboach/Whiscash
Baltoy/Claydol
Castform
Snorunt/Glalie/Froslass
Bidoof/Bibarel
Burmy/Wormadam/Mothim
Pachirisu
Buizel/Floatzel
Cherubi/Cherrim
Shellos/Gastrodon
Buneary/Lopunny
Stunky/Skuntank
Bronzor/Bronzong
Spiritomb
Croagunk/Toxicroak
Rotom

1059860
Bulbasaur/Ivysaur/Venusaur
Charmander/Charmeleon/Charizard
Squirtle/Wartortle/Blastoise
Pidgey/Pidgeotto/Pidgeot
Nidoran-F/Nidorina/Nidoqueen
Nidoran-M/Nidorino/Nidoking
Oddish/Gloom/Vileplume/Bellossom
Poliwag/Poliwhirl/Poliwrath/Politoed
Abra/Kadabra/Alakazam
Machop/Machoke/Machamp
Bellsprout/Weepinbell/Victreebel
Geodude/Graveler/Golem
Gastly/Haunter/Gengar
Mew
Chikorita/Bayleef/Meganium
Cyndaquil/Quilava/Typhlosion
Totodile/Croconaw/Feraligatr
Mareep/Flaaffy/Ampharos
Hoppip/Skiploom/Jumpluff
Sunkern/Sunflora
Murkrow/Honchkrow
Gligar/Gliscor
Shuckle
Sneasel/Weavile
Celebi
Treecko/Grovyle/Sceptile
Torchic/Combusken/Blaziken
Mudkip/Marshtomp/Swampert
Lotad/Lombre/Ludicolo
Seedot/Nuzleaf/Shiftry
Taillow/Swellow
Whismur/Loudred/Exploud
Sableye
Budew/Roselia/Roserade
Trapinch/Vibrava/Flygon
Cacnea/Cacturne
Kecleon
Absol
Spheal/Sealeo/Walrein
Turtwig/Grotle/Torterra
Chimchar/Monferno/Infernape
Piplup/Prinplup/Empoleon
Starly/Staravia/Staraptor
Kricketot/Kricketune
Shinx/Luxio/Luxray
Combee/Vespiquen
Chatot
Riolu/Lucario
Shaymin

1250000
Growlithe/Arcanine
Tentacool/Tentacruel
Shellder/Cloyster
Exeggcute/Exeggutor
Rhyhorn/Rhydon/Rhyperior
Staryu/Starmie
Pinsir
Tauros
Magikarp/Gyarados
Lapras
Aerodactyl
Munchlax/Snorlax
Articuno
Zapdos
Moltres
Dratini/Dragonair/Dragonite
Mewtwo
Chinchou/Lanturn
Heracross
Swinub/Piloswine/Mamoswine
Mantyke/Mantine
Skarmory
Houndour/Houndoom
Stantler
Miltank
Raikou
Entei
Suicune
Larvitar/Pupitar/Tyranitar
Lugia
Ho-Oh
Ralts/Kirlia/Gardevoir/Gallade
Slakoth/Vigoroth/Slaking
Aron/Lairon/Aggron
Electrike/Manetric
Carvahna/Sharpedo
Tropius
Relicanth
Bagon/Shelgon/Salamence
Beldum/Metang/Metagross
Regirock
Regice
Registeel
Latias
Latios
Kyogre
Groudon
Rayquaza
Jirachi
Deoxys
Gible/Gabite/Garchomp
Hippopotas/Hippowdon
Skorupi/Drapion
Carnivine
Snover/Abomasnow
Uxie
Mesprit
Azelf
Dialga
Palkia
Heatran
Regigigas
Giratina
Cresselia
Phione
Manaphy
Darkrai
Arceus

1640000
Shroomish/Breloom
Makuhita/Hariyama
Illumise
Gulpin/Swalot
Wailmer/Wailord
Seviper
Corphish/Crawdaunt
Drifloon/Drifblim
</pre>
:[[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 20:45, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

I like this idea and think it would be useful. Anyone else agree? [[User:Eric the espeon|Eric the espeon]] 19:43, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
:Yes, but I don't know if it belongs on this page. We could create categories, but I think I like the idea of another page better, like List of Pokémon by experience requirement, or something. — [[User:Laoris|Laoris]] ([[User_Talk:Laoris|Blah]]) 19:52, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
Makes sense, and link to that list from here? [[User:Eric the espeon|Eric the espeon]] 18:19, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

== ??? ==

If the formula returns a decimal, is the result rounded up or down? --[[User talk:Shiny Noctowl|Shiny Noctowl]] 15:39, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
:Always rounded down, I believe. [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 22:59, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

== Hmm... ==

Does anyone else think that a chart that lists the experience needed to reach each level in an experience group would be a good addition to this page? '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 05:20, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

:yes [[User:MathijsP|MathijsP]] 07:22, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
::I added the charts, but, as I had a computer program generate them, I haven't been able to check the piecewise ones yet. It would be good if someone else could check the piecewise functions ("erratic" and "fluctuating") to make sure they're correct. --[[User:Shiny Noctowl|Shiny Noctowl]] 00:15, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
:::the "Erratic" one is messed up. lvl 98 is 1.2 million, and lvl 99 is under 600,000. also, thats a lot of text, so, i added the show/hide ability. -- '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAG]][[User:MAGNEDETH#Interesting Stuff|NE]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|DETH]]''' 00:24, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
::::It's still messed up. Can you fix it please? --[[User:Shiny Noctowl|Shiny Noctowl]] 00:27, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::i dont know how to fix it, i just added the show/hide things. im just noting its not right. you said you had a computer do it. try again? -- '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAG]][[User:MAGNEDETH#Interesting Stuff|NE]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|DETH]]''' 00:29, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
::::::The formula for Level 98 comes out to 583539, which is correct. [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 23:05, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::::well thats fine, but currently it says lvl 98 is 1185901, which it wrong. -- '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|MAG]][[User:MAGNEDETH#Interesting Stuff|NE]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|DETH]]''' 23:21, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

== Pokémon Gold/Silver Version ROM - Hack-O-Matic - "Secret" Experience functions ==

I'm sure someone else has noticed that if you use the ROM hack tool Hack-O-Matic to open a Pokémon Gold/Silver ROM and edit Pokémon, there will be eight "experience gradient" choices for each Pokémon as opposed to the four that were actually used in Generation II. I've figured out three of the four "secret" functions, and due to a glitch in Hack-O-Matic I can't examine the fourth one. 
Hack-O-Matic displays the eight experience functions as eight "types" (the numbers go from Level 2 to 100):
{| width="100%" class="expandable"
|
===1===
Formula is 0.25n^3 + 15n^2 + 205n – 107
|-
|
<pre>
365
649
969
1324
1717
2148
2621
3135
3693
4295
4945
5642
6389
7186
8037
8941
9901
10917
11993
13128
14325
15584
16909
18299
19757
21283
22881
24550
26293
28110
30005
31977
34029
36161
38377
40676
43061
45532
48093
50743
53485
56319
59249
62274
65397
68618
71941
75365
78893
82525
86265
90112
94069
98136
102317
106611
111021
115547
120193
124958
129845
134854
139989
145249
150637
156153
161801
167580
173493
179540
185725
192047
198509
205111
211857
218746
225781
232962
240293
247773
255405
263189
271129
279224
287477
295888
304461
313195
322093
331155
340385
349782
359349
369086
378997
389081
399341
409777
420393
</pre>
|}
===2===
Same as Fifth Type
{| width="100%" class="expandable"
|
===3===
0.75n^3 + 10n^2 – 30
|-
|
<pre>
16
80
178
313
492
717
994
1326
1720
2178
2706
3307
3988
4751
5602
6544
7584
8724
9970
11325
12796
14385
16098
17938
19912
22022
24274
26671
29220
31923
34786
37812
41008
44376
47922
51649
55564
59669
63970
68470
73176
78090
83218
88563
94132
99927
105954
112216
118720
125468
132466
139717
147228
155001
163042
171354
179944
188814
197970
207415
217156
227195
237538
248188
259152
270432
282034
293961
306220
318813
331746
345022
358648
372626
386962
401659
416724
432159
447970
464160
480736
497700
515058
532813
550972
569537
588514
607906
627720
647958
668626
689727
711268
733251
755682
778564
801904
825704
849970
</pre>
|}
{| width="100%" class="expandable"
|
===4===
0.75n^3 + 20n^2 – 70
|-
|
<pre>
16
130
298
523
812
1167
1594
2096
2680
3348
4106
4957
5908
6961
8122
9394
10784
12294
13930
15695
17596
19635
21818
24148
26632
29272
32074
35041
38180
41493
44986
48662
52528
56586
60842
65299
69964
74839
79930
85240
90776
96540
102538
108773
115252
121977
128954
136186
143680
151438
159466
167767
176348
185211
194362
203804
213544
223584
233930
244585
255556
266845
278458
290398
302672
315282
328234
341531
355180
369183
383546
398272
413368
428836
444682
460909
477524
494529
511930
529730
547936
566550
585578
605023
624892
645187
665914
687076
708680
730728
753226
776177
799588
823461
847802
872614
897904
923674
949930
</pre>
|}
===5===
First Type
===6===
Fourth Type
===7===
Sixth Type
===8===
Unknown due to glitch in Hack-O-Matic. Hack-O-Matic provides graphs for each experience function, but they may not be accurate. Do you want me to upload that graph's picture anyway? 
Are these "hidden" experience functions notable enough to be added to the article somewhere? Thanks. [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 20:44, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

I dont understand any of this? Could you make it clearer for the average user to be able to read, if an average person sees that they wont be able to understand it, only smart people will --[[User:Guardian|Guardian]][[Special:Contributions/Guardian| of]][[User talk:Guardian| Earth]] |[[GSDS|SGMS 2010]]
:When a Pokémon gains experience it levels up. Different Pokémon level up at different rates, and take different amounts of experience to gain each level. Some Pokémon level up faster than others. The amount of experience a Pokémon needs to gain a level is determined by one of eight possible formulas. That's really the premise of the whole article. — [[User:Laoris|Laoris]] ([[User_Talk:Laoris|Blah]]) 18:27, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

oh ok thank you, it was that last line "The amount of experience a Pokémon needs to gain a level is determined by one of eight possible formulas." I didnt really get till you explained it. I just thought they made the pokemon that way, i wasnt aware there was a formula, if this is in the article, can we have the easier to understand version, your version, underneath the complicated bit. --[[User:Guardian|Guardian]][[Special:Contributions/Guardian| of]][[User talk:Guardian| Earth]] |[[GSDS|SGMS 2010]]
:I'll add some clarification to the article later. — [[User:Laoris|Laoris]] ([[User_Talk:Laoris|Blah]]) 18:36, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

:''Reeeeeaaaaaaally'' late reply here, but I wrote Hack-O-Matic ages ago. I can tell you that those graphs are definitely not accurate. (I don't remember how exactly I made them, but they're very rough estimations.) I never really examined how the game computes the different EXP growth rates, but I know that four of them are "real" and four of them are "glitched" (and there might even be more than those four glitches). If I had to guess, I'd assume all the EXP growth functions are the same function with different constants plugged in, and the glitch rates just put in strange constants, resulting in silly things like 100K EXP to level 100. [[User:HyperHacker|⬡]] ([[User talk:HyperHacker|talk]]) 12:26, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

== List of base experence yeald ==

Can someone add this in as a hide able table?{{unsigned|Eric the espeon}}''; massive amount of data hidden by {{u|the dark lord trombonator|trom}}.''

:Already in [[List of Pokémon by effort value yield]]. [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 00:42, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
No, that is EV yield.. The list I provided was base EXP yield. Quite a major difference there. [[User:Eric the espeon|Eric the espeon]] 17:57, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
:If you take a look at the article, there's a column marked "Exp.", which contains exactly the same data that you have provided. Confusing, I know. [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 19:06, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
Ok, fair enough. This article should probably link to that list then, no? [[User:Eric the espeon|Eric the espeon]] 21:59, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

==Negative EXP==
According to the "medium slow" formula, the EXP for level 1 should be -54. This is exploited in the [http://tasvideos.org/950M.html Pokémon Blue TAS]. However there's no sign of this in the article. Was it fixed in later games? {{unsigned|Gyorokpeter }}
:It was fixed as of Generation III at the latest, I believe. According to the article, "Due most likely to the issue of speed when using these formulas, the GBA games will simply use a {{wp|lookup table}} for each value of any type instead of computing them. Because of this, these formulas are not actually part of the game mechanics." [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 05:41, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

== Experience gain in battle ==
The section on the experience gained in battle only mentions the total experience gained, and not how experience is spread throughout multiple participants in the battle. That information seems like a useful mechanic and should be appended by someone who can add it. --[[User:Naokohiro|Naokohiro]] 19:21, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
:It is divided evenly among participants, unless some participants have EXP share or whatever. In this case, they receive their share plus the bonus from the held item. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 03:56, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
::How is it divided among arbitrary amounts of Pokémon involved in the battle, and Pokémon with Exp. Share, including cases where Pokémon have both an Exp. Share and participated in the battle? There are many different cases. For example, when some Pokémon have Exp. Share and some don't, but some of the Pokémon with Exp. Share participated and some didn't, but also some Pokémon without Exp. Share that did participate, etc. --[[User:Naokohiro|Naokohiro]] 04:41, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
:::I don't know exactly how experience is divided among multiple Exp. Share holders (does each Pokémon with Exp. Share receive (1/(number of Exp. Shares + 1))*(total experience), or does each receive (1/2)*(total experience)*(1/number of Exp. Shares), or something else?), but the experience '''that is not allocated solely as a result of Exp. Share being held''' is always divided evenly among the participants of the battle, regardless of whether or not those participants hold Exp. Share. [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 06:22, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

== Switching??? ==

I'll give an example.

Say I have a Charizard out, and the opponent has Venusaur. The opponent switches to Blastoise, and later I switch to Raichu. If the opponent switches back to Venusaur, and I KO it, will my Charizard still gain exp? '''-''' [[User Talk:Axxonn|Axxonn]][[Special:Contributions/Axxonn|the]][[User talk:Axxonn|Awesometrainer]] 20:59, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
:No, at least not in my experience. The Pokémon must face the Pokémon since it has last been sent out from its Poké Ball. <sc>[[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]]</sc> [[User talk:Werdnae|(talk)]] 21:40, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
::Nope. Tried it before. [[User:Ht14|'''''ht''''']][[User talk:Ht14|''14'']] 21:59, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

== Errors with formulas? ==
I was just double-checking the erratic output based on the formula given, when I realized that the given formula is impossible, in programming terms. Specifically, the game would never output two values for levels 50, 68, and 98, as the current formula shows it does. So I checked to see what the correct distribution of the formulas was, and came up with the following: level 50 could go either way, as both formulas it is attributed to result in the same output, level 68 is calculated based on the second formula given, and level 98 is calculated on the final formula. In other words, the actual division of the formulas should be something along the lines of the first applying to levels below or equal to 50, the second applying to levels greater than 50 but less than or equal to 68, the third applying to levels greater than 68 but less than to 98 (or, to keep similar formatting, apply to levels greater than 68 but less than or equal to 97), and the final one applying to levels greater than or equal to 98 (or, to keep formatting, apply to levels greater than 97). [[User:Glitchfinder|Glitchfinder]] 03:31, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

It would also appear that quite a bit has been left out of the fluctuating piecewise function. Specifically, it would appear that the formula used for levels one through 14 will change based on the level modulo 3, resulting in three different yet very similar formulas for these levels. The middle levels, from 15 to 34, remain with the same formula that is given. However, it would appear that there are two separate formulas used for levels 35 to 100, determined by the level modulo 2. Here is the code I was using to test the function, which is written in Ruby:

test.fluctuating[1] = 0
for i in 2...101
if i >= 1 && i < 15 && i % 3 == 0
val = ((i.to_f ** 3.0) * ((24.0 + ((i.to_f) / 3.0)) / 50.0))
elsif i >= 1 && i < 15 && i % 3 == 1
val = ((i.to_f ** 3.0) * ((24.0 + ((i.to_f - 1.0) / 3.0)) / 50.0))
elsif i >= 1 && i < 15 && i % 3 == 2
val = ((i.to_f ** 3.0) * ((24.0 + ((i.to_f + 1.0) / 3.0)) / 50.0))
elsif i >= 15 && i < 35
val = ((i.to_f ** 3.0) * ((14.0 + i.to_f) / 50.0))
elsif i >= 35 && i <= 100 && i % 2 == 0
val = ((i.to_f ** 3.0) * ((32.0 + (i.to_f / 2.0)) / 50.0))
elsif i >= 35 && i <= 100 && i % 2 == 1
val = ((i.to_f ** 3.0) * ((32.0 + ((i.to_f - 1.0) / 2.0)) / 50.0))
end
test.fluctuating[i] = val.truncate
end
Please note that the code is given as a demonstration of how the formulas are chosen, and does not include the necessary setup for the test variable. I don't know the Wikipedia math functions well enough to replace the image, so it would be a good idea for someone else to do it instead. [[User:Glitchfinder|Glitchfinder]] 05:17, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
:I believe that the modulo operator business is already covered in the formulas, using the floor function symbol (looks a little like square brackets). But I do agree that the erratic functions' domains should be clarified as you said. [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 05:25, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
::That would certainly explain the problem. There should probably be a note stating that those values are actually encased in a floor function, and not simply placed within brackets. (I had to look quite closely to see that they were in fact the floor function symbols, and not simply brackets, like I had assumed they were) [[User:Glitchfinder|Glitchfinder]] 05:47, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

== Understanding the formulas ==

Could anyone tell me what is ment with "N" in the formulas?
I can't find it anywhere on the page. {{unsigned|Ragnearoa}}
:"n" generally means "number" when used in equations as a variable, in this case... I believe the "n" stands for the base experience given out by a Pokemon. ▫▫'''[[User:Tina|ティナ]]'''[[User talk:Tina|♫]][[Special:Contributions/Tina|★]] 15:21, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
::"n" actually represents the level of the Pokémon. "e(n)" is therefore the number of Exp. Points a Pokémon needs to get from level 1 to level "n". [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 01:21, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

== Erratic formula ==

The erratic formula's piecewise functions are defined inclusively in all inequalities, and thus overlap.
[[Image:Math-formula5.png|left]] [[Image:Expcalc_erratic.png|right]]
<div style="clear:both"></div>
The left formula is how I believe it should be, the right is the current one. -- [[User:Pokey|Pokey]] 07:38, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
: At the overlaps, the values are equal. [[User:Ztobor|Ztobor]] 22:34, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

== Does Not Compute ==
The Trivia sections on the species pages for Arceus, Blissey and Chansey all state that they give 13,933 experience at level 100 when owned by a Trainer. But based on the way that the experience given in battle formula is written right now (with ''a'' being 1 plus an additional possible 1.2 depending on Trainer status, trade, and foreign language), it only equals 8,014, not 13,933.

''a''=2.2 ''b''=255 ''L''=100 ''a''+''b''+''L''=56,100 56,100/7=8,014

Add a Lucky Egg (multiply by 1.5) onto that and you only get 12,021. The only way to get the 13,933 is to multiply 1.5 for the trade and 1.7 for the foreign language ''after'' the initial Trainer experience (with ''a'' being 1.5) has been calculated, not to add .5 and .2 to ''a''. --[[User:Phantomjunkie|Phantom]][[User talk:Phantomjunkie|Junkie]] 17:17, 17 July 2010 (UTC)
:We'd better look into that. Perhaps you don't add 0.5 to a, but multiply a by 1.5 instead. I'll see about it. [[User:Ztobor|Ztobor]] 02:50, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
::Hold on, you mean: if you calculate 1.5x for the Lucky Egg, 1.7x for the foreign language trade, and 1.5x for the Trainer battle as well.
:::If we're going by that logic, it might actually be that you multiply everything, instead of adding to the multiplier. In which case it would actually be 14,753 experience points. I'll still have to look into it. [[User:Ztobor|Ztobor]] 02:58, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
::::Okay, I found out. I tried battling against a trainer's Level 28 Mime Jr. with a German-traded Gabite holding a Lucky Egg. The base Exp. is exactly 312, and it gained 1193, which is 1.5 x 1.7 x 1.5. So yes, you actually do need to multiply 1.5 twice, and the article as it stands now is wrong. [[User:Ztobor|Ztobor]] 03:18, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
:::::Fixed. [[User:Ztobor|Ztobor]] 03:57, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

== Minor wording issue ==
I didn't want to just go in and edit this without asking. The section on the Experience Underflow glitch contains the following sentence:
''It is due to this bug that no level 1 Pokémon can be found in the wild without glitching or hacking the game, and why, even though level 2-4 Pokémon can be found wild, Pokémon hatched at level 5 in the first two generations.''
However, since breeding and, by extension, hatching eggs wasn't added until Generation II, shouldn't the sentence be changed to state that "Pokémon hatched at level 5 in the second generation"? The following paragraph refers to level 5 hatching in Generation III, so I don't feel it's necessary to add it here. --[[User:Phantomjunkie|Phantom]][[User talk:Phantomjunkie|Junkie]] 08:08, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
:Changed to "''Pokémon hatched at level 5 when eggs were introduced in Generation II.''" [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 01:30, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

== Use of asymptotic notation ==

It's not really appropriate to use asymptotic notation in the manner this article does currently: the notion is not really useful unless the functions tend to 0 or infinity, as we can write many statements that say equally true and unhelpful things. For example, all six functions in the article are O(1) at n=100, or O(n), or O(n^10) (using the lim sup definition in the Wikipedia article, for example), none of which show the detail we want.

In other words, the notation is effectively meaningless the way it is being used. Perhaps considering f(x)-f(100) would be better.

Small extra note: to be rather fussy, similar remarks could be made about the way the article used "continuous" before I removed it: these functions are defined on the integers, and since there is no way of talking about limits on a finite set of integers, you can't talk about continuity either. (The integers are called discrete or totally disconnected because of the way the topologies on them must be defined, if anyone wants more detail.) Of course, this also means you can't use asymptotic notation in this case at all... [[User:Chappers|Chappers]] 00:32, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

: Alright, I'll remove that part. A friend of mine also said it was inappropriate too.
:: Also, about the "continuous" function part, I can see why it's notation abuse now. I just meant to say that it wasn't piecewise, and could be represented as one function. I guess "polynomial" is a good compromise if we can't really find a suitable word for it. [[User:Ztobor|Ztobor]] 19:42, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

== Where to put this? ==

[[File:ExpToNextLevel.png|300px|thumb|right|A graph showing the number of experience points required to go from one level to the next.]]

I created a table with the number of experience points required to go from one level to the ''next'' level, not just from level 1 to a level, but the formula won't fit anywhere.

Image is to the right. [[User:Ztobor|Ztobor]] 20:26, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

== Misleading names ==

The Medium Slow (a.k.a. Parabolic) function is not actually strictly slower than the Medium Fast (a.k.a Cubic) function.

The only functions that are actually strictly ordered in terms of speed of levelling up are the Slow, Medium Fast, and Fast functions. The other three are all quirky.

What I'd suggest is renaming the Medium Fast function to simply Medium, and rename the Medium Slow function to... something. I still need to come up with a name, hence why I haven't actually edited the page yet. [[User:Ztobor|Ztobor]] 00:44, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

:You could just change it to "Parabolic", but do leave a reminder that there exist different names for the experience functions. In my opinion "Erratic" and "Fluctuating" are okay names for their respective functions. [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 04:51, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
::Or, to go with the quirky nature of the function compared to the others, rename it to "Quirky". Because "parabolic" is a huge misnomer. What do you think? (I didn't say anything about Erratic or Fluctiating... o_O) [[User:Ztobor|Ztobor]] 17:25, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Hard to say, since you're the first person I've ever seen to refer to that experience function as "Quirky". I just mentioned Erratic and Fluctuating because you didn't, and I wasn't sure what your own opinion was on those names. [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 22:07, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Well, I didn't mention those, but I think they're perfectly fine. It was just the four that were "ranked" by speed that I had a problem with - and even then it's only the Medium Slow one simply because it doesn't even fit into that rank nicely. [[User:Ztobor|Ztobor]] 13:34, 2 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Actually, even those three names should probably be changed to "Cubic", "Fast Cubic", and "Slow Cubic". It just doesn't make sense to rank them all by speed if they vary so much. [[User:Ztobor|Ztobor]] 13:36, 2 August 2010 (UTC)
:::::You could try something like "Fast (Cubic)", "Medium (Cubic)", and "Slow (Cubic)". As for 1059860, we might be able to get away with calling it "Parabolic" and adding a note that the name only refers to the existence of a "not-purely-cubic" part in the function. [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 01:06, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::Not to mention all the article-renaming we'd have to do. >_< [[User:Ztobor|Ztobor]] 14:48, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

== Experience table for PMD ==

It seems random, at least from what I've played so far. I have a character named Vino the Torchic, and here's her experience table for levels 7 through 15:

{| class="roundy" border="2"
|-
! class="roundytl" style="background: #CF4000; color:#FFFFFF;" | Level
! class="roundytr" style="background: #CF4000; color:#FFFFFF;" | Exp.
|-
| style="background: #FF7800; color:#FFFFFF;" | 7
| style="background: #FF7800; color:#FFFFFF;" | 410
|-
| style="background: #FF7800; color:#FFFFFF;" | 8
| style="background: #FF7800; color:#FFFFFF;" | 700
|-
| style="background: #FF7800; color:#FFFFFF;" | 9
| style="background: #FF7800; color:#FFFFFF;" | 1250
|-
| style="background: #FF7800; color:#FFFFFF;" | 10
| style="background: #FF7800; color:#FFFFFF;" | 2250
|-
| style="background: #FF7800; color:#FFFFFF;" | 11
| style="background: #FF7800; color:#FFFFFF;" | 4150
|-
| style="background: #FF7800; color:#FFFFFF;" | 12
| style="background: #FF7800; color:#FFFFFF;" | 7290
|-
| style="background: #FF7800; color:#FFFFFF;" | 13
| style="background: #FF7800; color:#FFFFFF;" | 10430
|-
| style="background: #FF7800; color:#FFFFFF;" | 14
| style="background: #FF7800; color:#FFFFFF;" | 15430
|-
| class="roundybl" style="background: #FF7800; color:#FFFFFF;" | 15
| class="roundybr" style="background: #FF7800; color:#FFFFFF;" | (etc.)
|}

I don't see a formula here at all. Does anybody have the full table? [[User:Ztobor|Ztobor]] 23:43, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
:Okay, no, I did find a table, from UPokeCenter. But man, those numbers are arbitrary. From levels 16 through 24, the EXP. required to get to the next level is always 6000. o_O [[User:Ztobor|Ztobor]] 23:47, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

== New Exp. gain formula ==

I'm doing research on it right now, by watching playthroughs. Apparently, there's actually a ''+1'' in the formula >_> [[User:Ztobor|Ztobor]] 02:47, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Okay, here it is:

[[File:Delta_exp_gen5.png]]

The only differences in the formula is that the 7 has now been changed to a 5, and the dL represents the level relationship factor, which I'm still trying to figure out. Also, a constant of 1 is now added to all experience point yields, probably to prevent defeated monsters from yielding 0 experience points due to a low dL modifier. [[User:Ztobor|Ztobor]] 03:00, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
:Do you know if any rounding down is involved in the calculation? [[User:Hexagon Theory|Hexagon Theory]] 03:50, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
::There is, but I don't know where it applies. [[User:Ztobor|Ztobor]] 14:00, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
:This formula can't be correct; no matter where I apply or don't apply rounding, I get slightly higher or slightly lower values than the experience I actually get in the game. Also, unless this one formula gets special treatment out of all the formulas in the game, the Pokémon games round down after every division or any other operation resulting in a non-integer, so if this were literally it, the level factor could never be anything between 0 and 1. [[User:Dragonfree|Dragonfree]] 14:37, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it multiplies by the defeated Pokémon's level + 2 first. It's been correct every time ''I've'' checked it, at any rate. [[User:Ztobor|Ztobor]] 03:48, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Could you include some of your calculations and data? It could speed up finding out what's going on here. [[User:Dragonfree|Dragonfree]] 23:00, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Okay, take your first battle with the other starters - Level 5 vs. Level 5 (a level multiplier of 1) gives you 43 experience points. The starters' base yield is 28, which is multiplied by 1.5 because it's a trainer battle, giving you 42. No other multipliers apply, so you add 1 to 42 which gives you 43. [[User:Ztobor|Ztobor]] 22:57, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
::::For that matter, could you report some of your own data? You might be applying the wrong formula. I'll set up a report section on the talk page for it.

Okay, I'm new here so I hope I'm not breaking any rules, but so far, the formula looks pretty accurate. I've only begun research on this a few days ago, battling my Yooterii against wild Pokemon around Route 1 of levels 2 through 4. I kept my Yooterii as the 'constant,' creating a data table as it levels from battles against wild Pokemon.

From the experiences gained, I've been able to construct this formula:

[(base experience)(level)/5] + 1 = total experience.

However, this is only when both the user's and wild Pokemon's levels are equal. The only question I have is what all of the variables represent, such as a and e. Again, I'm very new to this, so any explanation would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

P.S. I am constructing a large data table for various battles. Would anyone like to help me, or be interested in the data?

--[[User:Xazel|Xazel]] 06:50, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

: Sorry, but we got to all this information already. The only thing left to do now is to find out how the relative level multiplier works. [[User:Ztobor|Ztobor]] 00:26, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
:: Also, what the variables represent are on the page itself. a represents "trainer battle", t represents "trainer ownership", b represents "base", e represents "lucky egg", l represents "level", and s represents "share", or "exp.share". [[User:Ztobor|Ztobor]] 00:26, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

Can anyone tell me what the above ^2.5 power means? We're discussing this on Yahoo Answers and I'm trying to calculate what would actually happen if a level 70 Pokemon took down a level 70 Latias or Latios. It doesn't matter because they yield the same EXP Points at any given level. ([[User:MichaelXD|MichaelXD]] 09:01, 7 January 2012 (UTC))

== Base EXP ==

The page currently says that the Pokemon that gives the most base EXP is Blissey with 608 - only every other page on this wiki and on other sites says that it's only 255. (Tabunne, for the record, has a yield of 390.) It also says that the fifth-gen starters give the least at 28; this time, the NUMBER is right, but Magikarp still apparently only gives 20. What gives? --[[User:HeroicJay|HeroicJay]] 22:51, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
: Those yields are still from before Generation V. The information on other pages is correct for Generations IV and prior. I haven't had the time nor the patience to change them all yet. [[User:Ztobor|Ztobor]] 00:43, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
:: Magikarp's yield is now 40, BTW. Just so you know [[User:Ztobor|Ztobor]] 00:44, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

== Report anomalies in the new Exp. gain formula ==

As far as we know right now, this is the new formula for experience used in Gen.5:

[[File:Delta_exp_gen5.png]]

If you think this formula might not apply to a certain type of battle, append your case to the bottom of this post with the following data:
*The Pokémon that was defeated, and its level.
*The Pokémon that were involved in the battle, and their levels.
*Whether the battle was a Trainer battle or not.
*Whether the Pokémon involved were holding any items.

Your support is much appreciated. [[User:Ztobor|Ztobor]] 23:01, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

=== Report 1 (example) ===

On the GameFAQ's forums, a user named JakeisaLie reported the following: A Level 48 Tabunne, was defeated by a level 52 Rotom holding a Lucky Egg, and yielded 5119 experience points instead of 5201 as the formula predicts.

The level difference multiplier, in this case, seems to be 72/79 (48 / 52+(2/3)), instead of 50/54 (48+2 / 50+2). [[User:Ztobor|Ztobor]] 16:25, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

=== Watched some playthroughs of the first bit of the game... ===
... and what I found is below. I didn't record what Pokémon were used to battle, because I didn't think it was relevant. None of the Pokémon were holding any experience-affecting items. Format is <pre><level of player's Pokémon> vs. <level of defeated Pokémon> <defeated Pokémon>: <Exp. gained> (formula predicts <exp. expected from formula>)</pre>
{| width="100%" class="expandable"
|'''"Big" list (click "show")'''
|-
|
<pre>
Trainer battles:
Choroneko (56 base exp.):
Level 7 vs. level 7 Choroneko: 118 (formula predicts 118)
Level 9 vs. level 7 Choroneko: 96 (formula predicts 97)
Level 10 vs. level 7 Choroneko: 88 (formula predicts 89)

Level 11 vs. level 8 Choroneko: 102 (formula predicts 104)
Level 12 vs. level 8 Choroneko: 94 (formula predicts 97)
Level 13 vs. level 8 Choroneko: 86 (formula predicts 90)

Level 13 vs. level 10 Choroneko: 133 (formula predicts 135)
Level 14 vs. level 10 Choroneko: 123 (formula predicts 127)

Level 16 vs. level 12 Choroneko: 153 (formula predicts 157)

Dokkora (61 base exp.):
Level 16 vs. level 13 Dokkora: 195 (formula predicts 199)

Haderia (130 base exp.):
Level 20 vs. level 18 Haderia: 632 (formula predicts 639)

Mamepato (53 base exp.):
Level 16 and level 15 vs. level 13 Mamepato: 84 (level 16) and 90 (level 15) (formula predicts 87 and 92)

Meguroco (58 base exp.):
Level 22 vs. level 14 Meguroco: 151 (formula predicts 163)

Minezumi (51 base exp.):
Level 8 vs. level 7 Minezumi: 96 (formula predicts 97)
Level 10 vs. level 7 Minezumi: 79 (formula predicts 81)
Level 12 vs. level 7 Minezumi: 67 (formula predicts 69)
Level 13 vs. level 7 Minezumi: 61 (formula predicts 65)

Level 13 vs. level 10 Minezumi: 121 (formula predicts 123)
Level 14 vs. level 10 Minezumi: 112 (formula predicts 115)

Level 12 vs. level 12 Minezumi: 184 (formula predicts 184)
Level 12 and tag team partner vs. level 12 Minezumi: 92 (formula predicts 92)

Level 22 vs. level 14 Minezumi: 133 (formula predicts 143)
Level 22 19 vs. level 14 Minezumi: 66 78 (formula predicts 72 and 82)

Level 18 vs. level 16 Minezumi: 218 (formula predicts 221)

Miruhog (147 base exp.):
Level 21 vs. level 20 Miruhog: 840 (formula predicts 844)

Otamaro (59 base exp.):
Level 16 vs. level 13 Otamaro: 188 (formula predicts 192)

Panpour (63 base exp.):
Level 15 vs. level 10 Panpour: 129 (formula predicts 134)

Pansage (63 base exp.):
Level 15 vs. level 10 Pansage: 129 (formula predicts 134)

Level 10 vs. level 14 Pansage: 349 (formula predicts 353)
Level 14 vs. level 14 Pansage: 265 (formula predicts 265)

Pansear (63 base exp.):
Level 15 vs. level 10 Pansear: 129 (formula predicts 134)

Snivy (28 base exp.):
Level 12 vs. level 8 Snivy: 47 (formula predicts 49)
Level 10 and level 12 vs. level 8 Snivy: 28 (level 10) and 24 (level 12) (formula predicts 29 and 25)

Level 16 vs. level 14 Snivy: 103 (formula predicts 105)

Tepig (28 base exp.):
Level 10 vs. level 7 Tepig: 44 (formula predicts 45)
Level 13 vs. level 7 Tepig: 34 (formula predicts 36)

Yorterry (55 base exp.):
Level 10 vs. level 6 Yorterry: 66 (formula predicts 67)
Level 13 vs. level 6 Yorterry: 50 (formula predicts 53)

Level 10 vs. level 7 Yorterry: 86 (formula predicts 87)
Level 12 vs. level 7 Yorterry: 72 (formula predicts 75)
Level 13 vs. level 7 Yorterry: 66 (formula predicts 70)

Level 10 vs. level 11 Yorterry: 196 (formula predicts 197)
Level 13 vs. level 11 Yorterry: 156 (formula predicts 158)

Level 13 vs. level 12 Yorterry: 185 (formula predicts 185)

Level 18 vs. level 15 Yorterry: 207 (formula predicts 211)

Wild battles:
Choroneko (56 base exp.):
Level 14 and level 11 vs. level 8 Choroneko: 27 (level 14) and 34 (level 11) (formula predicts 29 and 38)

Minezumi (51 base exp.):
Level 6 vs. level 3 Minezumi: 20 (formula predicts 20)
Level 11 vs. level 8 Minezumi: 62 (formula predicts 63)

Yorterry (55 base exp.):
Level 6 vs. level 2 Yorterry: 12 (formula predicts 12)
Level 10 vs. level 6 Yorterry: 44 (formula predicts 45)
</pre>
|}
Hope it helps. [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 01:24, 25 December 2010 (UTC)
: Thanks for the info, but just to clarify - are these Trainer battles? Because the formula seems to identify them as such. [[User:Ztobor|Ztobor]] 22:45, 26 December 2010 (UTC)
::I had them divided into two sections: "Trainer battles" (at the beginning) and "Wild battles" (at the end). Only the last five entries are wild battles. [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 23:53, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

: Well. It certainly created more questions than it answered... my formula is definitely wrong, but it brings us nowhere closer in getting the actual formula right. >_> [[User:Ztobor|Ztobor]] 02:54, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

: Could you get some higher-level ones? Those ones are better resolution, and leave less room for error. [[User:Ztobor|Ztobor]] 02:56, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
===A few more...===
These are all trainer battles.
<pre>
Level 45 and level 37 vs. level 43 Zuruzukin (171 base exp.): 1048 (level 45) and 1295 (level 37) (formula predicts 1057 and 1273)

Level 44 and level 38 vs. level 43 Roobushin (227 base exp.): 1427 (level 44) and 1674 (level 38) (formula predicts 1433 and 1648)

Level 44 and level 38 vs. level 43 Kojofu (70 base exp.): 441 (level 44) and 516 (level 38) (formula predicts 442 and 508)

Level 52 vs. level 45 Erufuun (168 base exp.): 1916 (formula predicts 1975)

Level 52 vs. level 45 Zeburaika (174 base exp.): 1984 (formula predicts 2045)
</pre>
I have to say, despite the formula not being completely accurate, it does give a pretty good rough idea of how much experience you're going to get. [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 22:33, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

: I guess so. It's just that I just know that people are going to be disappointed when they don't actually get 1,581,409 points for defeating a level 100 Blissey in the way I mentioned. [[User:Ztobor|Ztobor]] 21:05, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:: Although, given the looks of the variations in this formula, it looks like that fight would yield ''more'' than 1,581,409. [[User:Ztobor|Ztobor]] 21:09, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

{| width="100%" class="expandable"
|'''Even more trainer battles (click "show")'''
|-
|
<pre>
Level 41 and level 38 vs. level 45 Gigalith: 1697 and 1837 (formula predicts 1675 and 1801) Base exp. 227

Level 41 and level 38 vs. level 46 Shibirudon: 1816 and 1963 (formula predicts 1787 and 1921) Base exp. 232

Level 45 vs. level 45 Gigalith: 3065 (formula predicts 3065) Base exp. 227

Level 44 vs. level 46 Shibirudon: 3364 (formula predicts 3341) Base exp. 232

Level 43 vs. level 45 Erufuun: 2386 (formula predicts 2369) Base exp. 168

Level 43 vs. level 45 Zeburaika: 2471 (formula predicts 2454) Base exp. 174

Level 44 vs. level 45 Murando: 3059 (formula predicts 3049) Base exp. 221

Level 43 vs. level 45 Pendra: 3039 (formula predicts 3018) Base exp. 214

Level 43 vs. level 44 Oobemu: 2303 (formula predicts 2294) Base exp. 170

Level 43 vs. level 44 Kutairan: 2288 (formula predicts 2281) Base exp. 169

Level 43 vs. level 45 Doredia: 2386 (formula predicts 2369) Base exp. 168

Level 43 vs. level 44 Yanakkie: 2356 (formula predicts 2348) Base exp. 174

Level 43 and level 44 vs. level 44 Hiyakkie: 1178 and 1149 (formula predicts 1174 and 1149) Base exp. 174

Level 44 vs. level 44 Baokkie: 2297 (formula predicts 2297) Base exp. 174

Level 44 vs. level 43 Zuruzukin: 2149 (formula predicts 2158) Base exp. 171

Level 44 vs. level 43 Roobushin : 2854 (formula predicts 2865) Base exp. 227

Level 44 vs. level 43 Kojofu: 880 (formula predicts 884) Base exp. 70

Level 44 vs. level 43 Gochimiru: 1722 (formula predicts 1729) Base exp. 137

Level 44 vs. level 43 Hahakomori: 2778 (formula predicts 2789) Base exp. 221

Level 44 vs. level 44 Gigiaru: 2033 (formula predicts 2033) Base exp. 154

Level 44 vs. level 44 Darmanitan: 2218 (formula predicts 2218) Base exp. 168

Level 44 vs. level 44 Gamageroge: 2971 (formula predicts 2971) Base exp. 225
</pre>
|}
Existing formula tends to overestimate if the attacking Pokémon is higher level, and underestimate if the defending Pokémon is higher level (what you hinted at with the Blissey example). (Existing formula is correct if the two Pokémon are the same level.) [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 05:45, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
: I'm pretty sure now that it involves square roots (or other such concave functions) in some way. That means that my formula only underestimates for a little of the time - and then it goes back to overestimating. [[User:Ztobor|Ztobor]] 03:01, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

== ERRATIC behaviour in Mathematica ==

So, I went to type in the EXP per level into Wolfram Mathematica 6, in an attempt to come up with both better graphs and interesting phenomonons. The non-piecewise functions turned out fine. However, the erratic and fluct. formulas kept coming up with strange behaviour in their plots, which I was able to filter out. However, look at this plot for the erratic formula:

This is the derivitive of the function of the Erratic experience group. Look at the range 68-98. Any ideas as to what is causing this? I had typed the formula in direstly as was shown on the article. [[User:TruePikachu|--TruePikachu]] 20:37, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

:<nowiki>*Facepalm*</nowiki> Just zoomed in, seems to be caused by the Floor() function and the erratic nature of that portion of the growth curve, which is why it didn't show up for Fluct. The formulas weren't designed for this kind of manipulation...time to weite an interger-based derivitave function to better model this...

:Anyway, any ideas as to wether or not I should undergo this project? I can easily cut out the inputted formula (It is harder to include it rather than exclude it). The GenI formulas are rather well established, being elementry curves, but the GenIII curves I can do lots of research into, and add to the article under a different heading. For example, I can easily generate a graph of the 'changing multiplier' for these two functions, or superimpose all parts of the piecewise function (so someone could see what happens if one part of it is used for the entire function). [[User:TruePikachu|--TruePikachu]] 20:47, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I already created a changing multiplier graph. Third one down from the top. I also created an "EXP per level" graph (shown here on the talk page), but for lack of a place to put it, haven't put it onto the main page yet. [[User:Ztobor|Ztobor]] 03:19, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Reshiram and Zekrom don't gain experience? ==

For some reason, people are editing this onto the article, even though it isn't true, at least from what I've seen of the playthroughs. Why do people think that it doesn't yield experience? [[User:Ztobor|Ztobor]] 00:59, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
:What that means is when you defeat one you don't gain experience. I wonder if this is true or not. --[[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']]''' 01:03, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
::When facing the wild version mascot before facing N, defeating it yields no Exp, as when the battlt ends, it'll just be there in the overworld as if nothing happened. Facing the one N has will yield Exp though. [[User:Shiramu Kuromu|Shiramu Kuromu]] 03:18, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Question ==

If there was a Pokémon that would change it's Exp group upon evolution, what would happen? [[User:Shiramu Kuromu|Shiramu Kuromu]] 03:18, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:In Generation III at least, the Pokémon would change level so that it would be consistent with the what the new group's experience formula would dictate.
:For example, if you hacked a Pikachu (1000000 at level 100) so that it would evolve into Gyarados (1250000 at level 100) at level 20, the Pikachu would only need 8000 exp. points to reach level 20. So suppose that the Pikachu receives 8000 exp. points, reaches level 20, and is allowed to evolve. But since Gyarados is in a different experience group, the Pokémon would actually drop down to level 18 (for Gyarados's group, 8000 points is only sufficient for level 18) immediately after evolution is complete. Meaning that when you check your Pokémon menu right after evolution, the Pokémon will appear as level 18, with 8000 exp. points.
:This has apparently been observed with a Generation III ROM, but I don't know exactly what would in other Generations. [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 04:55, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:Just realized that a potential question might arise with my example: Would the newly-evolved Gyarados attempt to learn {{m|Bite}} (a level 20 move), even though it's technically level 18 after evolution? Unfortunately I don't have the answer to that particular question. [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 05:06, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
::Based on what you've said about the situation, I'd guess no - after evolution, the new level is 18, period. Otherwise, the bug would be that it stays at Level 20, but as soon as it gains experience points, it reverts to 18. [[User:Ztobor|Ztobor]] 15:46, 23 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Well, a regular Magikarp evolving into Gyarados at level 20 would immediately try to learn Bite upon evolution (without leaving the evolution screen). In other words, we haven't even seen the new level of the Gyarados until after it attempts to learn Bite. Basically it's a question of when does the game "notice" that the Pokémon's experience group has changed - immediately upon evolution (i.e. while the evolution screen is active) or immediately after leaving the evolution screen? [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 17:09, 23 December 2010 (UTC)
::::That's a good point, actually. We'd need somebody to test that out. [[User:Ztobor|Ztobor]] 01:52, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Level multipliers in the new Exp. gain formula ==

We're going to have to change that article - it certainly is not adding the levels by 2 and dividing them.

I'm getting a table set up with the approximate multipliers. Perhaps we can figure something out. [[User:Ztobor|Ztobor]] 05:19, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

== underflow glitch==

can we get a detailed example of this please? {{unsigned|DJLO}}
:The medium-slow growth algorithm itself is 1.2L^3 - 15L^2 + 100L - 140. This is applied to {{p|Mew}} and all 3-stage evolutionary Pokémon except {{p|Dragonite}}, {{p|Butterfree}} and {{p|Beedrill}}. Substitute L for anything greater than 1 like 2 and the equation will suffice i.e. this would give 9.6 which floors down to 9 total experience for a level 2 medium-slow growth Pokémon. If you use 1 or 0 however you get a negative result, e.g. replacing L with level 1 gives -53.8 experience which floors down to -53. The main problem is that Pokémon experience is an unsigned integer; this means that negative numbers are essentially taken as a positive (w^X)-y value [where w^X is the highest value possible; {at least 2^8} and -y is the negative integer]. Pokémon experience is stored in three 8-bit bytes ((2^8)^3) so for a [[Mew Trick]]ed level 1 Pokémon with no experience we can use the analogy that it has ((2^8)^3)- 53 experience which is 16,777,109. Since 256^3 (16,777,216) is essentially the 'largest value' in this case, if this Pokémon got 54 experience it would revert back to a total experience of 0, though gaining less than 54 experience would cause the game to recalculate what level (very high) the Pokémon should be after a battle ends or the [[box trick]] is used. Since it is way over the total experience required for level 100 by far the level 100 cap comes in and makes the Pokémon level 100. --[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] 21:00, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

::It is explained in depth in the article itself, no? [[User:Ztobor|Ztobor]] 19:04, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

== Wait, how is a base yield of 28 lower than a base yield of 20? ==

"The Pokémon with the highest base experience yield is Blissey, with a base yield of 608. The Pokémon with the lowest base experience yield are Snivy, Tepig, and Oshawott, '''with a base yield of 28.'''

* Before Generation V, the Pokémon with the lowest base experience yield was '''Magikarp with a yield of 20,''' and the Pokémon with the highest base experience yields were Arceus, Happiny, Chansey, and Blissey, with a yield of 255."

Magikarp still has the lowest base yield. And this can't be generation only, as Blissey is in there. I'm not willing to correct anything until I know how this mistake was made (is 28 supposed to be 18? Did somebody think 28 is lower than 20? How did this happen?) {{unsigned|Shadowater}}
:Most of the base exp. yields changed from Generation IV to V. Blissey, for example, had its own base exp. changed from 255 in Generation IV to 608 in Generation V. Pokémon If you take a look at the base exp. column at [[List of Pokémon by effort value yield]], Magikarp now has the tenth lowest base exp, with 40 (up from 20 in Generation IV). [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 01:49, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
::Ah, ok then. I had checked Magikarp's page to make sure, and it says 20 there, so I got confused by that --[[User:Shadowater|Shadowater]] 04:33, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

== My Pokémon got one EP less? ==
If I start in the yellow edition, I fight with my Pikachu against Gary's Eevee. I gain 97 EP, but why? It is a trainer battle (1,5), Eevee's base experiance is 92 in the first generation and it has level 5. If I multiply 1,5*92*5 and divide it with 7 (as it is described in the article), I got 98 EP and not 97. What's the reason for gaining 97 EP? I controlled it with wild Rattatas and Pidgeots in the same edition, and there the EP-gaining is right (with Rattata: 1*57*2 (1 = wild battle, 57 = Rattata's base experiance in Generation one, 2 = its level) divided with 7 = 16 EP for Pikachu. But I used a long time to find a solution of my problem, but I can't. Can anybody help me here?
--[[User:LaBumm|LaBumm]] 23:40, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
: Maybe it does the abL/7 thing before multiplying anything else, rounding down in the middle. That's the only explanation I can think of, and that gives 97.5, which rounds down to 97. [[User:Ztobor|Ztobor]] 12:54, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

== On the Gen V formula ==

According to poccil's post [http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3372038#post3372038 here], Lucky Egg and trade multipliers are applied after the +1. Since I can't seem to replace the existing file, I have instead left the repaired formula on [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Sandbox&oldid=422238119 Wikipedia's sandbox]. Could someone perform the replacement of the formula? [[User:Arcorann|Arcorann]] 09:01, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
:Updated the image with yours. I skimmed the page to see if anything was wrong due to using the old formula, but it seemed to be using your formula anyway. However, it's possible that I missed something. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 05:36, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

== Experience Gain Formula Mistake? ==

I saw the experience gain formula and decided to test out. This is the situation: In a Generation IV game a Scyther who defeats a wild level 11 Rattata gains 89 EXP. points. The Scyther is with his original trainer, has no Lucky Egg, there is no EXP. Share in his team, and no EXP. All in the Bag to affect the outcome. Though, using the formula, Change in EXP would simplify to 561/7, which equals 80.14, or 80 EXP. I'd understand if it were off by 1 or 2 EXP but the gap is noticeable here. Could someone help me in finding out my mistake? I'm pretty sure I'm the one mistaken here. Thanks in advance to any help.
[[User:Chrispizza|Chrispizza]] 20:41, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
:I tried the exact same thing (Scyther KOing a lv 11 Rattata in Gen IV), and got 89 EXP as well. I don't think it was you that messed up, but the formula. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 07:07, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

== Gen IV International Pokémon ==

Does the 1.7 multiplier exist in pre Gen IV games? If not then this info should be added to this page. I only ask because a lot of the benefits of international trading weren't added until Gen IV. [[User:Jmvb|Jmvb]] 14:53, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
:I would doubt it. The byte which indicates its country of origin wasn't added until [[Pokémon data structure in Generation IV|Gen IV]], so I don't see how the Gen III game would have been able to tell. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 15:25, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

== Level 100 Exp. Share ==

If I battle a Pokémon with a level 100 Pokémon and another one in my party has an Exp. Share, does the one holding it get 100% of Exp. Points since the one battling doesn't? [[User:Mastergiygas11|MasterGiygas]] 23:16, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
:No. In generation IV at least, the 50% that would go to the level 100 Pokemon battling is lost. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] [[User talk:Werdnae|(talk)]] 23:19, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
::Just tested, it gets 50% in 5th gen as well. -- [[User:Trainer Hunter|Trainer]] [[User talk:Trainer Hunter|Hunter]] -- 23:38, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
:::I used to do this in Gen III. It is true there as well. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 01:17, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

== A most accuracy GenV formula for Exp. Points gained in battle ==

(I'm spanish so, I'm sorry if my english isn't perfect)

I'm working and testing the actual formula for gain Exp. Points in battles and, in some cases, I noticed that the actual formula has some little mistakes in certain specific cases. I modified the actual formula, and with this new version I didn't fail any case until now. I will try to explain it as well as I can:

- Step 1: Calculate total Exp. Points.
totalExp = tct((b x L) x a)
NOTE: tct() meas truncate decimals.

- Step 2: Calculate particular Exp. Points.
This step is slightly different from the actual formula.
"aux1" is equal to 1 if the Pokémon has participated in the battle or 0 if not.
"aux2" is equal to 1 if the Pokémon has Exp. Share equipped or 0 if not.
"s1" is the number of Pokémon that participated in the battle and have not fainted. If any Pokémon in the party is holding an Exp. Share, "s1" is
equal to twice the number of Pokémon that participated instead.
"s2" is equal to twice the number of Pokémon holding the Exp. Share in the party.
partExp = (aux1 x tct(totalExp / (5 x s1))) + (aux2 x tct(totalExp / (5 x s2)))

- Step 3: Calculate Exp. Points per level multiplier.
This step is slightly different from the actual formula.
multiplier = tct((tct((2L + 10)^2.5) x 1000) / tct((L + Lp + 10)^2.5))

- Step 4: Semi final Exp. Points.
This step is slightly different from the actual formula.
sFinal = tct((partExp x multiplier) / 1000) + 1

- Step 5: Final Exp. Points.
finalExp = tct(tct(tct(sFinal x t) x e) x p)
NOTE: I can't test if that's the real order, because I don't have any international traded Pokémon and any Exp. Point Power.

: Amazing! I just make it into a better look equation, but I haven't test it yet
: Note that big brackets '[]' means truncate decimals

: [[File:Exp_process_1_totalexp.png]]

: [[File:Exp_process_2_partexp.png]]

: [[File:Exp_process_3_multiplier.png]]

: [[File:Exp_process_4_sfinal.png]]

: [[File:Exp_process_5_finalexp.png]]

:[[File:Exp_process_6_mixed.png]]
: Where
: b is the base experience yield of the fainted Pokémon′s species, listed here.
: L is the level of the fainted Pokémon.
: a is equal to 1 if the fainted Pokémon is wild, and 1.5 if the fainted Pokémon is owned by a Trainer.
: aux1 is equal to 1 if the Pokémon has participated in the battle or 0 if not.
: aux2 is equal to 1 if the Pokémon has Exp. Share equipped or 0 if not.
: s1 is the number of Pokémon that participated in the battle and have not fainted. If any Pokémon in the party is holding an Exp. Share, "s1" is equal to twice the number of Pokémon that participated instead.
: s2 is equal to twice the number of Pokémon holding the Exp. Share in the party.——[[User:Kolu|Kolu]] ([[User talk:Kolu|talk]]) 06:30, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

== EXP and Tag Battles ==

How does being in a story-based tag battle affect EXP (for example, when you're teamed with Bianca in Reversal Mountain in B&W2)? I don't think it's consistent between different games. [[User:Legionaireb|Legionaireb]] ([[User talk:Legionaireb|talk]]) 19:26, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

== Possibly minor page error ==

So, on the chart listing "Experience at each level" comparing the exp groups, at the top of the chart for Medium Slow on the "To next level" side, it reads 0 with use of the {{Template|tt}} template reading "63 in Generations I and II". This should ''probably'' either read 6 or 3, but probably not 63, since that would be more than the next number down. [[User:Schiffy|Schiffy]] ([[User_talk:Schiffy|Speak to me]]|[[Special:Contributions/Schiffy|What I've done]]) 17:22, 7 September 2013 (UTC)
:Remember that in those generations the formula was actually broken at level 1. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] [[User talk:Werdnae|(talk)]] 21:15, 7 September 2013 (UTC)
::Oh.... right..... Forgot, it's Gen I/II, where more than enough random pieces of code was broken, and level 1's weren't even legitimately obtainable. [[User:Schiffy|Schiffy]] ([[User_talk:Schiffy|Speak to me]]|[[Special:Contributions/Schiffy|What I've done]]) 22:49, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

== "Unexplainable" deviation in Gen I? ==

The text states that in Gen I "... the calculated experience deviates by as much as three experience points from the experience received in-game, a deviance which cannot be accounted for by simple rounding errors."

I would like to know more about this. A 3-point deviation is certainly possible assuming that the game truncates any intermediate result to integers; for example, 13/7*1.5*1.5≈4.18, but int(int(int(13/7)*1.5)*1.5)=int(int(1*1.5)*1.5)=int(1*1.5)=1.

[[User:Bbbbbbbbba|Bbbbbbbbba]] ([[User talk:Bbbbbbbbba|talk]]) 15:56, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
:I put part of the data I gathered on [[User:Tiddlywinks/Gen I Exp/Party of 6|a user page]] (I have data for parties of 1-5 as well). You should just be able to import (copy/paste{{tt|*|You might want to copy from the source, because whenever I've tried to copy-paste directly between a webpage and OpenOffice Calc, it doesn't import correctly; I have to put it in a simple text editor in between}}) that data into a spreadsheet if you want, marking comma as the delimiter. About half of those result in some deviation (with a half-dozen or so deviating by 3). You're welcome to try to reconcile those with some rounding. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 16:32, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

::Try this sequence of operation:
::1. Divide the base exp of the enemy by the number of participating Pokémons. In case of Exp. All, divide the above result by the number of all Pokémons in party. Truncate the result (to an integer).
::2. Multiply by the level of the enemy, then divide by 7. Truncate the result.
::3. Multiply any factor of 1.5 (trade/trainer) that is applicable. Truncate after each multiplication.
::This should work like a charm.
::[Actually I "cheated" by reading the assembly code:)] [[User:Bbbbbbbbba|Bbbbbbbbba]] ([[User talk:Bbbbbbbbba|talk]]) 18:56, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
:::Yup, that does it for all the data I've got (except that you forgot an extra /2 for Exp. All in Step 1). Thanks! I think the main difference with everything I tried is that I was always multiplying enemy level and base exp together right away.
:::I really wish I could mark rounding in the formulas, but I'm still waiting for them to be updated for Gen VI, even. =( And I don't really want to try to explain it purely textually... [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 19:44, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

== What's wrong with EXP All? ==

:In Generation I, when Exp. All is in the Bag, every Pokémon in the player's party also receives some experience from Exp. All; that amount is equal to the amount that a battling Pokémon would have received (before any bonuses) divided by the number of Pokémon in the player's party (this method of calculation appears to be an error).

I don't see what the error is here. If you have 6 mons in your party and you defeat an opponent and win N EXP, each mon gains N/6 EXP. Is that not what happens? [[User:HyperHacker|⬡]] ([[User talk:HyperHacker|talk]]) 19:55, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
:In point of fact, if your party has 6 Pokemon and only one of them battles and Exp All is in the bag, they each actually get (N/2)/6 Exp (and the battler gets N/2 Exp). That's no problem.
:If you send 2 Pokemon out of a 6-Pokemon party in to battle, though, the battlers each get N/4 Exp and each of the 6 party Pokemon get (N/4)/6 Exp. But they should be getting (N/2)/6 Exp. The game should be using half the opponent's experience to divide among the party; instead it uses the amount that a battler receives, which will be less than N/2 if there is more than one battler. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 21:59, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

::I think I understand, but I'm still not clear... it divides the EXP into two pools (one for those who battled, one for those who didn't) of 50% each, except the non-battler pool isn't actually 50%, but (50 / #battlers)%?

::Maybe I'm just a derp, but I don't find either explanation completely clear. [[User:HyperHacker|⬡]] ([[User talk:HyperHacker|talk]]) 12:20, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
:::That's basically right. What it ''looks'' like is that someone thought, "Hey, I've got one guy battling so he's gonna receive 50% of the experience, then I need to divide 50% among the party...I can just divide the number that the guy in battle got, easy peasy!". And if they only tested it with one battler, that would look correct and they could have missed the mistake. On the other hand, it could be more of a bug and they meant to actually use the right value but forgot or didn't quite do it right somehow. It's hard to say. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 13:23, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

== B2W2 cap. ==

...I think they capped the yield at 100k in B2W2. I've seen Lv. 79 Blissey with all the bonuses (Pass Power, trade, Lucky Egg) giving exactly 100 000EXP. This is not the case [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYhC2ZTqVzY here]. {{unsigned|Eridanus}}

:This seems to be true. It can be seen [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REKgGBh55kE here] for example. The video Eridanus linked to is from BW, not B2W2, so the change seems to have been implemented during Gen V. Maybe add this to / change the text in the Trivia section where the maximum value for Exp. Points amounting to >100k is said to be possible in 'Gen V'? [[User:Peterpansexuell|Peterpansexuell]] ([[User talk:Peterpansexuell|talk]]) 19:05, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

== Gen VI experience formula ==

So I'm not sure if this has been discussed or not, but I just noticed a few weeks ago, that experience in Generation VI is no longer divided between the number of Pokémon that took part in the battle. I thought this was exclusive to when the Exp. Share was turned on, but I discovered that it works the same even if the Exp. Share is turned off.
So, this means that, in previous generations, if two Pokémon took part in a battle where the yielded experience was, say, 1000, then each Pokémon would receive 500 experience points. But in Gen VI, both Pokémon will gain the whole 1000 exp. points, effectively doubling the total experience received. This also means that if three Pokémon take part in the battle, the total experience gained would be three times the normal amount, and if four Pokémon took part, it would be four times the total experience, and so on.
I believe it's already been included in the article, but it is hard to understand as it is now. So I was thinking that maybe it could be further explained in the Trivia section, as it is the first time experience points aren't divided between team members. [[User:LinkNinjaMaster|LinkNinjaMaster]] ([[User talk:LinkNinjaMaster|talk]]) 07:04, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
:Agree, and I also find there is not enough mentioning how unique the gen V formula is. You get next to no EXP. points from low-level Pokémon, whereas Gen VI luckily seems to have abolished that horrible formula. It's not mentioned clearly enough, though. Here it looks like the Gen V formula is still in effect. [[User:Colorshade|Colorshade]] ([[User talk:Colorshade|talk]]) 07:35, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
::I don't know how exactly you could have thought the scaled formula was still in effect, Colorshade, but I looked at the "in battle" section thinking to try to address the Gen VI issue and ended up reorganizing more or less the whole section. So look at it now and see if you still think it's not good enough. (Although, if you think it isn't, I'm really not sure what can reasonably be done. Like I said, I just don't know how you would get such an idea, unless you were only thinking about Gen V and not really reading closely enough.) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 09:18, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

== Fainted party Pokemon and opponent switch ==

I removed these lines from the article: ''"Pokémon that are fainted do not gain any experience. However, if a Pokémon is revived before the Pokémon it battled is defeated or switches out, it will still gain experience."'' To my knowledge, I've accounted for it in my edit, but that quoted text actually implies an edge case that I'm not sure about. To wit:

Say I send out Bulbasaur against a Pidgey, Bulbasaur gets fainted, so I send in Squirtle, and then Pidgey is switched out (while Bulbasaur is still fainted). After that, suppose Bulbasaur is revived, and then Squirtle defeats the current opponent and then defeats Pidgey straight away after it is sent in (and Bulbasaur is never sent back in). Now, based on the text quoted above, it sounds like Bulbasaur shouldn't receive any experience, because it was fainted when Pidgey was switched out. Is this true? (Ideally, this should be tested.) I was under the impression that it's pretty simple: any Pokemon that has been in battle against Pokemon X gains experience when Pokemon X is defeated, so long as it is not itself fainted. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 09:27, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

== Negative experience in Gen 5? ==

I recently got a black 2 cartridge from my friend. It had some event pokemon including Celebi and Deoxys. For some reason they had '''-?927014''' exp, which seems to be negative. When I tried to transfer the two to Gen 6, it blocked me. Can some one tell me why this happens? {{unsigned|Jimmys1000}}
:They're hacked. --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 13:28, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

== Experience in Generation VII ==

According to the Pokémon Sun and Moon E3 Footage, it looks like experience gain formula from [[Generation V]] is returned in [[Generation VII]]! From the E3 demo, which showing:

Level 6 {{p|Popplio}} catching Level 3 {{p|Ledyba}}: 21 EXP

Level 7 {{p|Popplio}} catching Level 2 {{p|Yungoos}}: 10 EXP

Level 7 {{p|Popplio}} defeating Level 3 {{p|Caterpie}}: 14 EXP (Trainer)

Level 7 {{p|Popplio}} defeating Level 4 {{p|Yungoos}}: 28 EXP (Trainer)

Level 3 {{p|Ledyba}} catching Level 5 {{p|Pikipek}}: 69 EXP

Level 7 {{p|Popplio}} defeating Level 6 {{p|Pichu}}: 44 EXP (Trainer)

Level 8 {{p|Popplio}} defeating Level 7 {{p|Litten}}: 81 EXP (Trainer)

First, there are two different experience formulas:
[[File:Delta exp gen6.png|frame|left|Standard experience formula used in Generation I-IV and VI]]
[[File:Delta exp gen5.png|frame|left|Scaled experience formula used only in Generation V]]

So, we calculate these following using these two above formulas (Base experience since Generation V are Ledyba: 53, Caterpie: 39, Pichu: 41):

Ledyba: 23 (Standard formula), 21 (Scaled formula)

Caterpie: 25 (Standard formula), 21 (Scaled formula)

Pichu: 53 (Standard formula), 67 (Scaled formula)

The only one that matches is the Ledyba to Generation V scaled formula. The experience yields from both of the trained Pokémon are lower than expected, and the degree of difference is about 1.5. By the way, if ''a'' is always 1, here are the results:

Ledyba: 21, Caterpie: 14, Pichu: 45

Since Ledyba and Caterpie are now right on and Pichu is only one point away, We are guessing there's some other minor factor here. We are unsure what this could be due to, especially as reducing Pichu's base experience. another incorrect result and switching to rounding up or down requires a change for both Caterpie and Pichu's base experience. The most likely other change is the 2.5. Let's use inequalities to determine if there is a different value that accounts for all this, assuming base experience is unchanged.

In Generation VII, the experience formula once again takes in account difference between Pokémon's levels; Trainer's Pokémon likely no longer give more experience than wild ones. --[[User:Megah961107|Megah961107]] ([[User talk:Megah961107|talk]]) 12:14, 28 June 2016 (UTC)

== Item Reward Icons ==

Could we replace the text of the table with the icon of the items. It not only reduces the total width of the table, but it is easier to scan with the eyes and improves the mobile experience.

Here is the table in icon format:

{| class="roundy" style="background:#{{night color}}; border:3px solid #{{blue color light}}"
|- style="color:#fff"
! style="background:#{{blue color light}}; {{roundytl|5px}}" | Level
! style="background:#{{blue color light}}" | Experience for next level
! style="background:#{{blue color light}}" | Total experience
! style="background:#{{blue color light}}" | Rewards
! style="background:#{{blue color light}}; {{roundytr|5px}}" | Unlocks
|- style="background:#fff"
|1
|0
|0
|
|
|- style="background:#fff"
|2
|1,000
|1,000
|[[File:GO Poké Ball.png|24px|link=Poké Ball]]×10
|
|- style="background:#fff"
|3
|2,000
|3,000
|[[File:GO Poké Ball.png|24px|link=Poké Ball]]×15
|
|- style="background:#fff"
|4
|3,000
|6,000
|[[File:GO Poké Ball.png|24px|link=Poké Ball]]×15
|
|- style="background:#fff"
|5
|4,000
|10,000
|[[File:GO Poké Ball.png|24px|link=Poké Ball]]×20 [[File:GO Potion.png|24px|link=Potion]]×10 [[File:GO Revive.png|24px|link=Revive]]×10 [[File:GO Incense.png|24px|link=Incense]]×1
|[[Gym (GO)|Gyms]], [[Potion|Potions]], [[Revive|Revives]]
|- style="background:#fff"
|6
|5,000
|15,000
|[[File:GO Poké Ball.png|24px|link=Poké Ball]]×15 [[File:GO Potion.png|24px|link=Potion]]×10 [[File:GO Revive.png|24px|link=Revive]]×10 [[File:GO Egg Incubator.png|24px|link=Egg Incubator]]×1
|
|- style="background:#fff"
|7
|6,000
|21,000
|[[File:GO Poké Ball.png|24px|link=Poké Ball]]×15 [[File:GO Potion.png|24px|link=Potion]]×10 [[File:GO Revive.png|24px|link=Revive]]×10 [[File:GO Incense.png|24px|link=Incense]]×1
|
|- style="background:#fff"
|8
|7,000
|28,000
|[[File:GO Poké Ball.png|24px|link=Poké Ball]]×15 [[File:GO Potion.png|24px|link=Potion]]×10 [[File:GO Revive.png|24px|link=Revive]]×5 [[File:GO Razz Berry.png|24px|link=Razz Berry]]×10 [[File:GO Lure Module.png|24px|link=Lure Module]]×1
|[[Razz Berry|Razz Berries]]
|- style="background:#fff"
|9
|8,000
|36,000
|[[File:GO Poké Ball.png|24px|link=Poké Ball]]×15 [[File:GO Potion.png|24px|link=Potion]]×10 [[File:GO Revive.png|24px|link=Revive]]×5 [[File:GO Razz Berry.png|24px|link=Razz Berry]]×3 [[File:GO Lucky Egg.png|24px|link=Lucky Egg]]×1
|
|- style="background:#fff"
|10
|9,000
|45,000
|[[File:GO Poké Ball.png|24px|link=Poké Ball]]×20 [[File:GO Super Potion.png|24px|link=Super Potion]]×20 [[File:GO Revive.png|24px|link=Revive]]×10 [[File:GO Razz Berry.png|24px|link=Razz Berry]]×10 [[File:GO Incense.png|24px|link=Incense]]×1 [[File:GO Lucky Egg.png|24px|link=Lucky Egg]]×1 [[File:GO Egg Incubator.png|24px|link=Egg Incubator]]×1 [[File:GO Lure Module.png|24px|link=Lure Module]]×1
|[[Super Potion|Super Potions]]
|- style="background:#fff"
|11
|10,000
|55,000
|[[File:GO Poké Ball.png|24px|link=Poké Ball]]×15 [[File:GO Super Potion.png|24px|link=Super Potion]]×10 [[File:GO Revive.png|24px|link=Revive]]×3 [[File:GO Razz Berry.png|24px|link=Razz Berry]]×3
|
|- style="background:#fff"
|12
|10,000
|65,000
|[[File:GO Great Ball.png|24px|link=Great Ball]]×20 [[File:GO Super Potion.png|24px|link=Super Potion]]×10 [[File:GO Revive.png|24px|link=Revive]]×3 [[File:GO Razz Berry.png|24px|link=Razz Berry]]×3
|[[Great Ball|Great Balls]]
|- style="background:#fff"
|13
|10,000
|75,000
|[[File:GO Great Ball.png|24px|link=Great Ball]]×15 [[File:GO Super Potion.png|24px|link=Super Potion]]×10 [[File:GO Revive.png|24px|link=Revive]]×3 [[File:GO Razz Berry.png|24px|link=Razz Berry]]×3
|
|- style="background:#fff"
|14
|10,000
|85,000
|[[File:GO Great Ball.png|24px|link=Great Ball]]×15 [[File:GO Super Potion.png|24px|link=Super Potion]]×10 [[File:GO Revive.png|24px|link=Revive]]×3 [[File:GO Razz Berry.png|24px|link=Razz Berry]]×3
|
|- style="background:#fff"
|15
|15,000
|100,000
|[[File:GO Great Ball.png|24px|link=Great Ball]]×15 [[File:GO Hyper Potion.png|24px|link=Hyper Potion]]×20 [[File:GO Revive.png|24px|link=Revive]]×10 [[File:GO Razz Berry.png|24px|link=Razz Berry]]×10 [[File:GO Incense.png|24px|link=Incense]]×1 [[File:GO Lucky Egg.png|24px|link=Lucky Egg]]×1 [[File:GO Egg Incubator.png|24px|link=Egg Incubator]]×1 [[File:GO Lure Module.png|24px|link=Lure Module]]×1
|[[Hyper Potion|Hyper Potions]]
|- style="background:#fff"
|16
|20,000
|120,000
|[[File:GO Great Ball.png|24px|link=Great Ball]]×10 [[File:GO Hyper Potion.png|24px|link=Hyper Potion]]×10 [[File:GO Revive.png|24px|link=Revive]]×5 [[File:GO Razz Berry.png|24px|link=Razz Berry]]×5
|
|- style="background:#fff"
|17
|20,000
|140,000
|[[File:GO Great Ball.png|24px|link=Great Ball]]×10 [[File:GO Hyper Potion.png|24px|link=Hyper Potion]]×10 [[File:GO Revive.png|24px|link=Revive]]×5 [[File:GO Razz Berry.png|24px|link=Razz Berry]]×5
|
|- style="background:#fff"
|18
|20,000
|160,000
|[[File:GO Great Ball.png|24px|link=Great Ball]]×10 [[File:GO Hyper Potion.png|24px|link=Hyper Potion]]×10 [[File:GO Revive.png|24px|link=Revive]]×5 [[File:GO Razz Berry.png|24px|link=Razz Berry]]×5
|
|- style="background:#fff"
|19
|25,000
|185,000
|[[File:GO Great Ball.png|24px|link=Great Ball]]×15 [[File:GO Hyper Potion.png|24px|link=Hyper Potion]]×10 [[File:GO Revive.png|24px|link=Revive]]×5 [[File:GO Razz Berry.png|24px|link=Razz Berry]]×5
|
|- style="background:#fff"
|20
|25,000
|210,000
|[[File:GO Ultra Ball.png|24px|link=Ultra Ball]]×20 [[File:GO Hyper Potion.png|24px|link=Hyper Potion]]×20 [[File:GO Revive.png|24px|link=Revive]]×20 [[File:GO Razz Berry.png|24px|link=Razz Berry]]×20 [[File:GO Incense.png|24px|link=Incense]]×2 [[File:GO Lucky Egg.png|24px|link=Lucky Egg]]×2 [[File:GO Egg Incubator.png|24px|link=Egg Incubator]]×2 [[File:GO Lure Module.png|24px|link=Lure Module]]×2
|[[Ultra Ball|Ultra Balls]]
|- style="background:#fff"
|21
|50,000
|260,000
|[[File:GO Ultra Ball.png|24px|link=Ultra Ball]]×10 [[File:GO Hyper Potion.png|24px|link=Hyper Potion]]×10 [[File:GO Revive.png|24px|link=Revive]]×10 [[File:GO Razz Berry.png|24px|link=Razz Berry]]×10
|
|- style="background:#fff"
|22
|75,000
|335,000
|[[File:GO Ultra Ball.png|24px|link=Ultra Ball]]×10 [[File:GO Hyper Potion.png|24px|link=Hyper Potion]]×10 [[File:GO Revive.png|24px|link=Revive]]×10 [[File:GO Razz Berry.png|24px|link=Razz Berry]]×10
|
|- style="background:#fff"
|23
|100,000
|435,000
|[[File:GO Ultra Ball.png|24px|link=Ultra Ball]]×10 [[File:GO Hyper Potion.png|24px|link=Hyper Potion]]×10 [[File:GO Revive.png|24px|link=Revive]]×10 [[File:GO Razz Berry.png|24px|link=Razz Berry]]×10
|
|- style="background:#fff"
|24
|125,000
|560,000
|[[File:GO Ultra Ball.png|24px|link=Ultra Ball]]×15 [[File:GO Hyper Potion.png|24px|link=Hyper Potion]]×10 [[File:GO Revive.png|24px|link=Revive]]×10 [[File:GO Razz Berry.png|24px|link=Razz Berry]]×10
|
|- style="background:#fff"
|25
|150,000
|710,000
|[[File:GO Ultra Ball.png|24px|link=Ultra Ball]]×25 [[File:GO Max Potion.png|24px|link=Max Potion]]×20 [[File:GO Revive.png|24px|link=Revive]]×15 [[File:GO Razz Berry.png|24px|link=Razz Berry]]×15 [[File:GO Incense.png|24px|link=Incense]]×1 [[File:GO Lucky Egg.png|24px|link=Lucky Egg]]×1 [[File:GO Egg Incubator.png|24px|link=Egg Incubator]]×1 [[File:GO Lure Module.png|24px|link=Lure Module]]×1
|[[Max Potion|Max Potions]]
|- style="background:#fff"
|26
|190,000
|900,000
|[[File:GO Ultra Ball.png|24px|link=Ultra Ball]]×10 [[File:GO Max Potion.png|24px|link=Max Potion]]×15 [[File:GO Revive.png|24px|link=Revive]]×10 [[File:GO Razz Berry.png|24px|link=Razz Berry]]×15
|
|- style="background:#fff"
|27
|200,000
|1,100,000
|[[File:GO Ultra Ball.png|24px|link=Ultra Ball]]×10 [[File:GO Max Potion.png|24px|link=Max Potion]]×15 [[File:GO Revive.png|24px|link=Revive]]×10 [[File:GO Razz Berry.png|24px|link=Razz Berry]]×15
|
|- style="background:#fff"
|28
|250,000
|1,350,000
|[[File:GO Ultra Ball.png|24px|link=Ultra Ball]]×10 [[File:GO Max Potion.png|24px|link=Max Potion]]×15 [[File:GO Revive.png|24px|link=Revive]]×10 [[File:GO Razz Berry.png|24px|link=Razz Berry]]×15
|
|- style="background:#fff"
|29
|300,000
|1,650,000
|[[File:GO Ultra Ball.png|24px|link=Ultra Ball]]×10 [[File:GO Max Potion.png|24px|link=Max Potion]]×15 [[File:GO Revive.png|24px|link=Revive]]×10 [[File:GO Razz Berry.png|24px|link=Razz Berry]]×15
|
|- style="background:#fff"
|30
|350,000
|2,000,000
|[[File:GO Ultra Ball.png|24px|link=Ultra Ball]]×30 [[File:GO Max Potion.png|24px|link=Max Potion]]×20 [[File:GO Max Revive.png|24px|link=Max Revive]]×20 [[File:GO Razz Berry.png|24px|link=Razz Berry]]×20 [[File:GO Incense.png|24px|link=Incense]]×3 [[File:GO Lucky Egg.png|24px|link=Lucky Egg]]×3 [[File:GO Egg Incubator.png|24px|link=Egg Incubator]]×3 [[File:GO Lure Module.png|24px|link=Lure Module]]×3
|[[Max Revive]]
|- style="background:#fff"
|31
|500,000
|2,500,000
|
|
|- style="background:#fff"
|32
|500,000
|3,000,000
|
|
|- style="background:#fff"
|33
|750,000
|3,750,000
|
|
|- style="background:#fff"
|34
|1,000,000
|4,750,000
|
|
|- style="background:#fff"
|35
|1,250,000
|6,000,000
|
|
|- style="background:#fff"
|36
|1,500,000
|7,500,000
|
|
|- style="background:#fff"
|37
|2,000,000
|9,500,000
|
|
|- style="background:#fff"
|38
|2,500,000
|12,000,000
|
|
|- style="background:#fff"
|39
|3,000,000
|15,000,000
|
|
|- style="background:#fff"
|40
|5,000,000
|20,000,000
|[[File:GO Ultra Ball.png|24px|link=Ultra Ball]]×40 [[File:GO Max Potion.png|24px|link=Max Potion]]×40 [[File:GO Max Revive.png|24px|link=Max Revive]]×40 [[File:GO Razz Berry.png|24px|link=Razz Berry]]×40 [[File:GO Incense.png|24px|link=Incense]]×4 [[File:GO Lucky Egg.png|24px|link=Lucky Egg]]×4 [[File:GO Egg Incubator.png|24px|link=Egg Incubator]]×4 [[File:GO Lure Module.png|24px|link=Lure Module]]×4
|
|-
! style="background: #{{blue color light}}; {{roundybottom|5px}}" colspan="5" |
|}

-- Thanks, [[User:Rmkane|Rmkane]] ([[User talk:Rmkane|talk]]) 01:09, 28 July 2016 (UTC)

'''Update:''' Converted ''Unlocks'' column text to wiki links. -- [[User:Rmkane|Rmkane]] ([[User talk:Rmkane|talk]]) 03:03, 28 July 2016 (UTC)

'''Update:''' Is this still a possibility? If so, I can go ahead and modify the table. -- [[User:Rmkane|Rmkane]] ([[User talk:Rmkane|talk]]) 14:17, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
:I'm a big fan of this. Makes the table much easier to process. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 14:31, 28 July 2016 (UTC)

=== Alternative (Grid) ===

If people are turned off by the spacing, maybe the items can be added to individual cells.

{| class="roundy" style="background:#{{night color}}; border:3px solid #{{blue color light}}"
|- style="color:#fff"
! style="background:#{{blue color light}}; {{roundytl|5px}}" | Level
! style="background:#{{blue color light}}" | Experience for next level
! style="background:#{{blue color light}}" | Total experience
! style="background:#{{blue color light}}" colspan="8" | Rewards
! style="background:#{{blue color light}}; {{roundytr|5px}}" | Unlocks
|- style="background:#fff"
|1
|0
|0
| || || || || || || ||
|
|- style="background:#fff"
|2
|1,000
|1,000
|[[File:GO Poké Ball.png|24px|link=Poké Ball]]×10  || || || || || || ||
|
|- style="background:#fff"
|3
|2,000
|3,000
|[[File:GO Poké Ball.png|24px|link=Poké Ball]]×15  || || || || || || || |
|
|- style="background:#fff"
|4
|3,000
|6,000
|[[File:GO Poké Ball.png|24px|link=Poké Ball]]×15  || || || || || || || |
|
|- style="background:#fff"
|5
|4,000
|10,000
|[[File:GO Poké Ball.png|24px|link=Poké Ball]]×20  || [[File:GO Potion.png|24px|link=Potion]]×10  || [[File:GO Revive.png|24px|link=Revive]]×10  || [[File:GO Incense.png|24px|link=Incense]]×1  || || || ||
|[[Gym (GO)|Gyms]], [[Potion|Potions]], [[Revive|Revives]]
|- style="background:#fff"
|6
|5,000
|15,000
|[[File:GO Poké Ball.png|24px|link=Poké Ball]]×15  || [[File:GO Potion.png|24px|link=Potion]]×10  || [[File:GO Revive.png|24px|link=Revive]]×10  || [[File:GO Egg Incubator.png|24px|link=Egg Incubator]]×1  || || || ||
|
|- style="background:#fff"
|7
|6,000
|21,000
|[[File:GO Poké Ball.png|24px|link=Poké Ball]]×15  || [[File:GO Potion.png|24px|link=Potion]]×10  || [[File:GO Revive.png|24px|link=Revive]]×10  || [[File:GO Incense.png|24px|link=Incense]]×1  || || || ||
|
|- style="background:#fff"
|8
|7,000
|28,000
|[[File:GO Poké Ball.png|24px|link=Poké Ball]]×15  || [[File:GO Potion.png|24px|link=Potion]]×10  || [[File:GO Revive.png|24px|link=Revive]]×5  || [[File:GO Razz Berry.png|24px|link=Razz Berry]]×10  || [[File:GO Lure Module.png|24px|link=Lure Module]]×1  || || ||
|[[Razz Berry|Razz Berries]]
|- style="background:#fff"
|9
|8,000
|36,000
|[[File:GO Poké Ball.png|24px|link=Poké Ball]]×15  || [[File:GO Potion.png|24px|link=Potion]]×10  || [[File:GO Revive.png|24px|link=Revive]]×5  || [[File:GO Razz Berry.png|24px|link=Razz Berry]]×3  || [[File:GO Lucky Egg.png|24px|link=Lucky Egg]]×1  || || ||
|
|- style="background:#fff"
|10
|9,000
|45,000
|[[File:GO Poké Ball.png|24px|link=Poké Ball]]×20  || [[File:GO Super Potion.png|24px|link=Super Potion]]×20  || [[File:GO Revive.png|24px|link=Revive]]×10  || [[File:GO Razz Berry.png|24px|link=Razz Berry]]×10  || [[File:GO Incense.png|24px|link=Incense]]×1  || [[File:GO Lucky Egg.png|24px|link=Lucky Egg]]×1  || [[File:GO Egg Incubator.png|24px|link=Egg Incubator]]×1  || [[File:GO Lure Module.png|24px|link=Lure Module]]×1 
|[[Super Potion|Super Potions]]
|- style="background:#fff"
|11
|10,000
|55,000
|[[File:GO Poké Ball.png|24px|link=Poké Ball]]×15  || [[File:GO Super Potion.png|24px|link=Super Potion]]×10  || [[File:GO Revive.png|24px|link=Revive]]×3  || [[File:GO Razz Berry.png|24px|link=Razz Berry]]×3  || || || ||
|
|- style="background:#fff"
|12
|10,000
|65,000
|[[File:GO Great Ball.png|24px|link=Great Ball]]×20  || [[File:GO Super Potion.png|24px|link=Super Potion]]×10  || [[File:GO Revive.png|24px|link=Revive]]×3  || [[File:GO Razz Berry.png|24px|link=Razz Berry]]×3  || || || ||
|[[Great Ball|Great Balls]]
|- style="background:#fff"
|13
|10,000
|75,000
|[[File:GO Great Ball.png|24px|link=Great Ball]]×15  || [[File:GO Super Potion.png|24px|link=Super Potion]]×10  || [[File:GO Revive.png|24px|link=Revive]]×3  || [[File:GO Razz Berry.png|24px|link=Razz Berry]]×3  || || || ||
|
|- style="background:#fff"
|14
|10,000
|85,000
|[[File:GO Great Ball.png|24px|link=Great Ball]]×15  || [[File:GO Super Potion.png|24px|link=Super Potion]]×10  || [[File:GO Revive.png|24px|link=Revive]]×3  || [[File:GO Razz Berry.png|24px|link=Razz Berry]]×3  || || || ||
|
|- style="background:#fff"
|15
|15,000
|100,000
|[[File:GO Great Ball.png|24px|link=Great Ball]]×15  || [[File:GO Hyper Potion.png|24px|link=Hyper Potion]]×20  || [[File:GO Revive.png|24px|link=Revive]]×10  || [[File:GO Razz Berry.png|24px|link=Razz Berry]]×10  || [[File:GO Incense.png|24px|link=Incense]]×1  || [[File:GO Lucky Egg.png|24px|link=Lucky Egg]]×1  || [[File:GO Egg Incubator.png|24px|link=Egg Incubator]]×1  || [[File:GO Lure Module.png|24px|link=Lure Module]]×1 
|[[Hyper Potion|Hyper Potions]]
|- style="background:#fff"
|16
|20,000
|120,000
|[[File:GO Great Ball.png|24px|link=Great Ball]]×10  || [[File:GO Hyper Potion.png|24px|link=Hyper Potion]]×10  || [[File:GO Revive.png|24px|link=Revive]]×5  || [[File:GO Razz Berry.png|24px|link=Razz Berry]]×5  || || || ||
|
|- style="background:#fff"
|17
|20,000
|140,000
|[[File:GO Great Ball.png|24px|link=Great Ball]]×10  || [[File:GO Hyper Potion.png|24px|link=Hyper Potion]]×10  || [[File:GO Revive.png|24px|link=Revive]]×5  || [[File:GO Razz Berry.png|24px|link=Razz Berry]]×5  || || || ||
|
|- style="background:#fff"
|18
|20,000
|160,000
|[[File:GO Great Ball.png|24px|link=Great Ball]]×10  || [[File:GO Hyper Potion.png|24px|link=Hyper Potion]]×10  || [[File:GO Revive.png|24px|link=Revive]]×5  || [[File:GO Razz Berry.png|24px|link=Razz Berry]]×5  || || || ||
|
|- style="background:#fff"
|19
|25,000
|185,000
|[[File:GO Great Ball.png|24px|link=Great Ball]]×15  || [[File:GO Hyper Potion.png|24px|link=Hyper Potion]]×10  || [[File:GO Revive.png|24px|link=Revive]]×5  || [[File:GO Razz Berry.png|24px|link=Razz Berry]]×5  || || || ||
|
|- style="background:#fff"
|20
|25,000
|210,000
|[[File:GO Ultra Ball.png|24px|link=Ultra Ball]]×20  || [[File:GO Hyper Potion.png|24px|link=Hyper Potion]]×20  || [[File:GO Revive.png|24px|link=Revive]]×20  || [[File:GO Razz Berry.png|24px|link=Razz Berry]]×20  || [[File:GO Incense.png|24px|link=Incense]]×2  || [[File:GO Lucky Egg.png|24px|link=Lucky Egg]]×2  || [[File:GO Egg Incubator.png|24px|link=Egg Incubator]]×2  || [[File:GO Lure Module.png|24px|link=Lure Module]]×2 
|[[Ultra Ball|Ultra Balls]]
|- style="background:#fff"
|21
|50,000
|260,000
|[[File:GO Ultra Ball.png|24px|link=Ultra Ball]]×10  || [[File:GO Hyper Potion.png|24px|link=Hyper Potion]]×10  || [[File:GO Revive.png|24px|link=Revive]]×10  || [[File:GO Razz Berry.png|24px|link=Razz Berry]]×10  || || || ||
|
|- style="background:#fff"
|22
|75,000
|335,000
|[[File:GO Ultra Ball.png|24px|link=Ultra Ball]]×10  || [[File:GO Hyper Potion.png|24px|link=Hyper Potion]]×10  || [[File:GO Revive.png|24px|link=Revive]]×10  || [[File:GO Razz Berry.png|24px|link=Razz Berry]]×10  || || || ||
|
|- style="background:#fff"
|23
|100,000
|435,000
|[[File:GO Ultra Ball.png|24px|link=Ultra Ball]]×10  || [[File:GO Hyper Potion.png|24px|link=Hyper Potion]]×10  || [[File:GO Revive.png|24px|link=Revive]]×10  || [[File:GO Razz Berry.png|24px|link=Razz Berry]]×10  || || || ||
|
|- style="background:#fff"
|24
|125,000
|560,000
|[[File:GO Ultra Ball.png|24px|link=Ultra Ball]]×15  || [[File:GO Hyper Potion.png|24px|link=Hyper Potion]]×10  || [[File:GO Revive.png|24px|link=Revive]]×10  || [[File:GO Razz Berry.png|24px|link=Razz Berry]]×10  || || || ||
|
|- style="background:#fff"
|25
|150,000
|710,000
|[[File:GO Ultra Ball.png|24px|link=Ultra Ball]]×25  || [[File:GO Max Potion.png|24px|link=Max Potion]]×20  || [[File:GO Revive.png|24px|link=Revive]]×15  || [[File:GO Razz Berry.png|24px|link=Razz Berry]]×15  || [[File:GO Incense.png|24px|link=Incense]]×1  || [[File:GO Lucky Egg.png|24px|link=Lucky Egg]]×1  || [[File:GO Egg Incubator.png|24px|link=Egg Incubator]]×1  || [[File:GO Lure Module.png|24px|link=Lure Module]]×1 
|[[Max Potion|Max Potions]]
|- style="background:#fff"
|26
|190,000
|900,000
|[[File:GO Ultra Ball.png|24px|link=Ultra Ball]]×10  || [[File:GO Max Potion.png|24px|link=Max Potion]]×15  || [[File:GO Revive.png|24px|link=Revive]]×10  || [[File:GO Razz Berry.png|24px|link=Razz Berry]]×15  || || || ||
|
|- style="background:#fff"
|27
|200,000
|1,100,000
|[[File:GO Ultra Ball.png|24px|link=Ultra Ball]]×10  || [[File:GO Max Potion.png|24px|link=Max Potion]]×15  || [[File:GO Revive.png|24px|link=Revive]]×10  || [[File:GO Razz Berry.png|24px|link=Razz Berry]]×15  || || || ||
|
|- style="background:#fff"
|28
|250,000
|1,350,000
|[[File:GO Ultra Ball.png|24px|link=Ultra Ball]]×10  || [[File:GO Max Potion.png|24px|link=Max Potion]]×15  || [[File:GO Revive.png|24px|link=Revive]]×10  || [[File:GO Razz Berry.png|24px|link=Razz Berry]]×15  || || || ||
|
|- style="background:#fff"
|29
|300,000
|1,650,000
|[[File:GO Ultra Ball.png|24px|link=Ultra Ball]]×10  || [[File:GO Max Potion.png|24px|link=Max Potion]]×15  || [[File:GO Revive.png|24px|link=Revive]]×10  || [[File:GO Razz Berry.png|24px|link=Razz Berry]]×15  || || || ||
|
|- style="background:#fff"
|30
|350,000
|2,000,000
|[[File:GO Ultra Ball.png|24px|link=Ultra Ball]]×30  || [[File:GO Max Potion.png|24px|link=Max Potion]]×20  || [[File:GO Max Revive.png|24px|link=Max Revive]]×20  || [[File:GO Razz Berry.png|24px|link=Razz Berry]]×20  || [[File:GO Incense.png|24px|link=Incense]]×3  || [[File:GO Lucky Egg.png|24px|link=Lucky Egg]]×3  || [[File:GO Egg Incubator.png|24px|link=Egg Incubator]]×3  || [[File:GO Lure Module.png|24px|link=Lure Module]]×3 
|[[Max Revive]]
|- style="background:#fff"
|31
|500,000
|2,500,000
| || || || || || || ||
|
|- style="background:#fff"
|32
|500,000
|3,000,000
| || || || || || || ||
|
|- style="background:#fff"
|33
|750,000
|3,750,000
| || || || || || || ||
|
|- style="background:#fff"
|34
|1,000,000
|4,750,000
| || || || || || || ||
|
|- style="background:#fff"
|35
|1,250,000
|6,000,000
| || || || || || || ||
|
|- style="background:#fff"
|36
|1,500,000
|7,500,000
| || || || || || || ||
|
|- style="background:#fff"
|37
|2,000,000
|9,500,000
| || || || || || || ||
|
|- style="background:#fff"
|38
|2,500,000
|12,000,000
| || || || || || || ||
|
|- style="background:#fff"
|39
|3,000,000
|15,000,000
| || || || || || || ||
|
|- style="background:#fff"
|40
|5,000,000
|20,000,000
|[[File:GO Ultra Ball.png|24px|link=Ultra Ball]]×40  || [[File:GO Max Potion.png|24px|link=Max Potion]]×40  || [[File:GO Max Revive.png|24px|link=Max Revive]]×40  || [[File:GO Razz Berry.png|24px|link=Razz Berry]]×40  || [[File:GO Incense.png|24px|link=Incense]]×4  || [[File:GO Lucky Egg.png|24px|link=Lucky Egg]]×4  || [[File:GO Egg Incubator.png|24px|link=Egg Incubator]]×4  || [[File:GO Lure Module.png|24px|link=Lure Module]]×4 
|
|-
! style="background: #{{blue color light}}; {{roundybottom|5px}}" colspan="5" |
|}

-- Thanks, [[User:Rmkane|Rmkane]] ([[User talk:Rmkane|talk]]) 14:42, 28 July 2016 (UTC)

== Sun and Moon Exp Formula ==

I have done some testing. I made a personal calculator coded with the formula for generation 5 exp. It matches up perfectly for generation 5 formula. I just have one problem needing solved. Can someone confirm how much exp that share gives to party? My test on exp share with a single pokemon shows a gain of 45.6% for any non battlers. [[User:Prowlcorp|Prowlcorp]] ([[User talk:Prowlcorp|talk]]) 01:47, 26 January 2017 (UTC)Prowl

== Blue's Lv5 Eevee in Yellow yields 97 Exp. instead of 98 Exp. Why? ==

I know somebody discussed this earlier, over five years ago even, but I'm trying to calculate Exp. in LibreOffice Calc and this is doing my head in. When I fight and defeat Blue's Eevee in Oak's Lab in Yellow, it yields 97 Exp. All my calculations lead to 98 Exp. Eevee is trained, my Pikachu has the same ID as Red, and Eevee's base experience is 92 and is Lv5, so according to the formula, 1.5 * 1 * 92 * 5 / 7 equals 98 when rounded down. Unless RBY uses a different formula, this makes no sense.
[[User:BeyondTheHorizon|BeyondTheHorizon]] ([[User talk:BeyondTheHorizon|talk]]) 16:16, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
:From a look at [https://github.com/pret/pokeyellow/blob/master/engine/battle/experience.asm the disassembly] I see no obvious reason it should do this. Even when rounding at different points in the calculation, the final answer comes out to 98. However, I don't fully understand the [https://github.com/pret/pokeyellow/blob/master/engine/multiply_divide.asm division routine] and it's possible I'm missing something obvious. I ''think'' it's saying, in effect, that the result of a division will be truncated to eight (binary places, I guess? can't call them decimal places), but I could be wrong. Someone with more knowledge of z80 assembly should probably take a look. --[[User:Felthry|Felthry]] ([[User talk:Felthry|talk]]) 19:00, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

Super Glitch

2017-03-13T17:29:13Z

Felthry: /* Videos */ fixed link

{{unknown name}}
----

'''Super Glitch''' is the nickname for a large amount of volatile glitch moves that exist in hexadecimal slots A6 to C3 in {{game|Red and Blue|s}} and {{Game|Yellow}}. These moves generally have either no name, a number of glitchy symbols as a name, or the name of a Pokémon in one's [[party]] as its name. Super glitch effects can also occasionally be caused by the move {{m|--}}. If the move is used, the opposing Pokémon will be burned, and will either faint, or its HP will drop until it has almost fainted.

==Effect==
Super Glitch can cause some rather strange effects. The most famous scenario is a chain of events starting with the music slowly fading out before stopping altogether known as the '[[TMTRAINER effect]]'. The opponent's name then changes to "TMTRAINER" followed by several lines of [[glitch]] dialogue, and the {{stat|HP}} of his or her Pokémon rises to a very large value which is often larger than the amount of max HP that the opponent Pokémon has, which causes the HP bar to stretch and wrap around the screen (the filled part the bar also instantly jumps from empty to full repeatedly before fainting (0HP) during damage animation due to the fact that the calculations to display how much fill in the bar in percent has been overflowed, thus causing the fill to wrap between empty and full). It will display that the enemy Pokémon is {{status|poison}}ed, but the game will state that it is {{status|freeze|frozen solid}}, followed by the enemy Pokémon becoming hurt by a {{status|burn}}. This burn will often deplete all of the enemy Pokémon's health, causing the giant HP bar to loop several times before all the HP is depleted, causing it to faint. If the battle is won before the game freezes, the glitch Pokémon that used Super Glitch may grow to a random level (sometimes even exceeding level 100). Also, sometimes many random Pokémon not part of the player's team evolve right after a battle. On such cases, Pokémon that cannot evolve can evolve into themselves.

Super Glitch is possible to activate outside of battle. By having a Pokémon that knows Super Glitch learn another move by level, the glitch will activate, just without the TMTRAINER effect, as you are not in battle. An example of this happening is [[Q◣]], which will learn Mega Punch at level 11. However, if it knows Super Glitch, then the effects will activate as if the player had just exited a battle using the glitch.

On occasion, a player may return to the game after a battle in which Super Glitch was used, but everything will be severely glitched. It will appear as if some Pokémon are poisoned in the player's team as every few steps a Pokémon faints. However, these Pokémon have glitchy names and were never part of the player's team before the battle. Some positions of the map will be glitchy and volatile, as if parts of [[Glitch City]] merged with the regular map. The player's name will have changed to a scrambled string of symbols. The player will be unable to view his or her Pokémon (if the Pokémon option is selected in the menu, a blank screen will show from which one can't escape) and hence it becomes impossible to {{m|Surf}} or {{m|Fly}}. Pokémon will disappear out of the Pokédex after taking a few steps. The music everywhere (except in battle) becomes eerie and glitched. The game may unexpectedly freeze at any point. The player may also randomly get stuck. By using the "deposit" option in the PC, it is possible to reveal that the game has given the player a lot of Pokémon, many of them with names made entirely out of glitch characters and with stats exceeding 999. Many of these pokemon will crash the game if the player attempts to interact with them.

Super Glitch's [[index number]] only changes the probability of the move causing glitch effects, and it does not change the obtained effect itself - the effects are the same for every Super Glitch index and for every Super Glitch-related move.

==Cause==
Super Glitch moves have no defined names, so the game looks for them past the actual move name list, and takes an unpredictably chosen RAM fragment as the name of the move. The problem occurs when the game tries to display such a name on the screen - the programmers assumed that each move name always ends with an end of string symbol, so the copy operation continues until it is found. The random move name that is picked from the memory may not have such a symbol, so the game copies too many bytes, overwriting important memory areas behind the text buffer.

In the memory layout of the game, a ''screen buffer'' is located directly after the text buffer. The screen buffer is a memory fragment where the game saves how the screen looked like before opening a full-screen menu - it exists so the screen contents can be restored after the menu has been closed. Opening any full-screen menu causes the buffer to be replaced with the current screen contents. It means that the values Super Glitch writes depend on what was recently displayed on the screen, and by opening any full screen menu and refreshing the screen copy, it is possible to control how Super Glitch corrupts the RAM. Also, the number of characters the move names before the Super Glitch have will offset the location where memory corruption starts.

The starting location of Super Glitch's {{wp|memory corruption}} can be calculated from an equation: ''StartingLocation = D0E116 + MoveLengths + NumberOfMovesBeforeSuperGlitch''.

To find the memory address where the ''n-th'' screen tile will be written, use the formula: ''StartingLocation + n''.

==Issues and prevention==
As the Super Glitch corruption is caused by viewing the name of the move, if a Pokémon as much as attempts to learn the move — as many [[Glitch Pokémon]] do — the RAM may be corrupted. This can be avoided by standing on a certain tile on the ground floor of Celadon Mansion<ref>[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2_aczBkpxM Pokemon Blue - Making "Super Glitch" moves useful] (YouTube)</ref> and opening the Start Menu. Having last opened the menu there — taking care not to touch it afterwards — the player can view Super Glitch move names without any adverse effects on the game. This is very useful as it allows a careful player to train Pokémon that learn the move, while avoiding the RAM corruption.

==Misconceptions==
Something important to note is that it is the move that is dangerous, not its users. For example, [[ゥ .4]], which knows Super Glitch as a starting move, is mistakenly believed to be extremely dangerous to one's game and save file. However, ゥ .4 as a species is no more dangerous than [[MissingNo.]] or [['M (00)]]. In fact, a ゥ .4 acquired by trading a [[PPkMnp' '|p{{PK}}{{MN}}p' ']] from {{game|Yellow}} will pose no threat whatsoever to the game, and a ゥ .4 that has forgotten Super Glitch is completely safe. Though obviously, a wild ゥ .4 will still pose a significant threat, as it will know Super Glitch.

==[[Generation I]]==

===Super Glitch index A7===

{{GlitchMoveInfobox|hex=A7|dec=167|type=Glitch|pwr=45|acc=33%|pp=8|effect=Absorbs half of damage inflicted. May cause [[TMTRAINER effect]] and other [[Super Glitch#Effect|Super Glitch effects]].|appear=—|gen2={{m|Triple Kick}}}}

====By [[Level|leveling up]]====
{{Moveheader/Level|Unknown|1}}
{{Moveentry/Level1|080|4 4Hy|1|Water|Psychic|250}}
{{Moveentry/Level1|061|a|1|Water|Water|121}}
{{Moveentry/Level1|000|PC4SH|2|Normal|Ground|207}}
{{Moveentry/Level1|006|'M (FF)|2|Fire|Flying|207}}
{{Moveentry/Level1|015|ゥ ( Z4|2|Bug|Poison|182}}
{{Moveentry/Level1|000|Glitch (CA)|1|Poison|Poison|204}}
{{Movefooter|Unknown|1}}

===Super Glitch index AB===

{{GlitchMoveInfobox|hex=AB|dec=171|type=Glitch|pwr=60|acc=8%|pp=3|effect=Lowers {{stat|Evasion}} down 2 stages. May cause [[TMTRAINER effect]] and other [[Super Glitch#Effect|Super Glitch effects]].|appear=—|gen2={{m|Nightmare}}}}

====By [[Level|leveling up]]====

{{Moveheader/Level|Unknown|1}}
{{Moveentry/Level1|006|u|2|Fire|Flying|224}}
{{Moveentry/Level1|000|ゥ .4|1|Pokémaniac|Pokémaniac|195}}
{{Movefooter|Unknown|1}}

===Super Glitch index AD===

{{GlitchMoveInfobox|hex=AD|dec=173|type=Glitch|pwr=45|acc=0%|pp=3|effect=Has 40% chance of poisoning the target. May cause [[TMTRAINER effect]] and other [[Super Glitch#Effect|Super Glitch effects]].|appear=—|gen2={{m|Snore}}}}

====By [[Level|leveling up]]====

{{Moveheader/Level|Unknown|1}}
{{Moveentry/Level1|033|Glitch (FA)|1|Poison|Poison|195}}
{{Movefooter|Unknown|1}}

===Super Glitch index AF===

{{GlitchMoveInfobox|hex=AF|dec=175|type=Glitch|pwr=3|acc=32%|pp=26|effect=Has no secondary effect. May cause [[TMTRAINER effect]] and other [[Super Glitch#Effect|Super Glitch effects]].|appear={{m|Pay Day}}|gen2={{m|Flail}}}}

====By [[Level|leveling up]]====

{{Moveheader/Level|Unknown|1}}
{{Moveentry/Level1|000|♀PゥゥゥT|2|Normal|Ground|243}}
{{Moveentry/Level1|000|3TrainerPoké $|1|Normal|Normal|--}}
{{Moveentry/Level1|080|4 4Hy|1|Water|Psychic|3, 208}}
{{Movefooter|Unknown|1}}

===Super Glitch index B1===

{{GlitchMoveInfobox|hex=B1|dec=177|type=Electric|pwr=65|acc=26%|pp=33|effect=May cause [[TMTRAINER effect]] and other [[Super Glitch#Effect|Super Glitch effects]].|appear=—|gen2={{m|Aeroblast}}}}

====By [[Level|leveling up]]====

{{Moveheader/Level|Unknown|1}}
{{Moveentry/Level1|061|a|1|Water|Water|195}}
{{Movefooter|Unknown|1}}

===Super Glitch index B5===

{{GlitchMoveInfobox|hex=B5|dec=181|type=Glitch|pwr=45|acc=33%|pp=35|effect=Lowers {{stat|Speed}} down 1 stage. May cause [[TMTRAINER effect]] and other [[Super Glitch#Effect|Super Glitch effects]].|appear=—|gen2={{m|Powder Snow}}}}

====By [[Level|leveling up]]====

{{Moveheader/Level|Unknown|1}}
{{Moveentry/Level1|094|h POKé|2|Ghost|Poison|205}}
{{Movefooter|Unknown|1}}

===Super Glitch index B6===

{{GlitchMoveInfobox|hex=B6|dec=182|type=Normal|pwr=93|acc=17%|pp=0|effect=May cause [[TMTRAINER effect]] and other [[Super Glitch#Effect|Super Glitch effects]].|appear=—|gen2={{m|Protect}}}}

====By [[Level|leveling up]]====

{{Moveheader/Level|Unknown|1}}
{{Moveentry/Level1|000|ゥ .4|1|Pokémaniac|Pokémaniac|234}}
{{Moveentry/Level1|015|ゥ ( Z4|2|Bug|Poison|35 175}}
{{Movefooter|Unknown|1}}

===Super Glitch index B8===

{{GlitchMoveInfobox|hex=B8|dec=184|type=Normal|pwr=38|acc=1%|pp=58|effect=Behaves like {{m|Dream Eater}}. May cause [[TMTRAINER effect]] and other [[Super Glitch#Effect|Super Glitch effects]].|appear=—|gen2={{m|Scary Face}}}}

====By [[Level|leveling up]]====

{{Moveheader/Level|Unknown|1}}
{{Moveentry/Level1|033|Glitch (FA)|1|Poison|Poison|213}}
{{Moveentry/Level1|000|ゥ .4|1|Pokémaniac|Pokémaniac|240}}
{{Moveentry/Level1|121|Q◣|2|Water|Psychic|224}}
{{Movefooter|Unknown|1}}

===Super Glitch index B9===

{{GlitchMoveInfobox|hex=B9|dec=185|type=Glitch|pwr=80|acc=7%|pp=20|effect=Lowers {{stat|Attack}} down 2 stages. May cause [[TMTRAINER effect]] and other [[Super Glitch#Effect|Super Glitch effects]].|appear=—|gen2={{m|Faint Attack}}}}

====By [[Level|leveling up]]====

{{Moveheader/Level|Unknown|1}}
{{Moveentry/Level1|000|Glitch (CA)|1|Poison|Poison|135}}
{{Movefooter|Unknown|1}}

===Super Glitch index BE===

{{GlitchMoveInfobox|hex=BE|dec=190|type=Flying|pwr=20|acc=17%|pp=38|effect=Behaves like {{m|Splash}}. May cause [[TMTRAINER effect]] and other [[Super Glitch#Effect|Super Glitch effects]].|appear=—|gen2={{m|Octazooka}}}}

====By [[Level|leveling up]]====

{{Moveheader/Level|Unknown|1}}
{{Moveentry/Level1|062|ゥL ゥM 4|2|Water|Fighting|24}}
{{Moveentry/Level1|000|ゥ .4|1|Pokémaniac|Pokémaniac|--}}
{{Movefooter|Unknown|1}}

===Super Glitch index C0===

{{GlitchMoveInfobox|hex=C0|dec=192|type=Poison|pwr=43|acc=70%|pp=10|effect=Raises {{stat|Speed}} up 2 stages. May cause [[TMTRAINER effect]] and other [[Super Glitch#Effect|Super Glitch effects]].|appear=—|gen2={{m|Zap Cannon}}}}

====By [[Level|leveling up]]====

{{Moveheader/Level|Unknown|1}}
{{Moveentry/Level1|000|▶ A|2|Normal|Normal|224}}
{{Moveentry/Level1|061|a|1|Water|Water|43 238 239 240}}
{{Moveentry/Level1|015|ゥ ( Z4|2|Bug|Poison|42}}
{{Moveentry/Level1|006|u|2|Fire|Flying|96}}
{{Movefooter|Unknown|1}}

===Super Glitch index C1===

{{GlitchMoveInfobox|hex=C1|dec=193|type=Ghost|pwr=227|acc=14%|pp=0|effect=May cause [[TMTRAINER effect]] and other [[Super Glitch#Effect|Super Glitch effects]].|appear=—|gen2={{m|Foresight}}}}

====By [[Level|leveling up]]====

{{Moveheader/Level|Unknown|1}}
{{Moveentry/Level1|062|ゥL ゥM 4|2|Water|Fighting|55 56}}
{{Moveentry/Level1|121|Q◣|2|Water|Psychic|9}}
{{Movefooter|Unknown|1}}

===Super Glitch index C3===

{{GlitchMoveInfobox|hex=C3|dec=195|type=Glitch|pwr=45|acc=33%|pp=6|effect=Lowers {{stat|Special}} down 1 stage. May cause [[TMTRAINER effect]] and other [[Super Glitch#Effect|Super Glitch effects]].|appear=—|gen2={{m|Perish Song}}}}

====By [[Level|leveling up]]====

{{Moveheader/Level|Unknown|1}}
{{Moveentry/Level1|062|ゥL ゥM 4|2|Water|Fighting|71}}
{{Moveentry/Level1|006|u|2|Fire|Flying|175}}
{{Movefooter|Unknown|1}}

==Videos==
{{youtubevid|fP7yniW6z3c|crazybuizel|Unknown}}
{{youtubevid|h_Fr2cE8SaA|Gligar13Vids|Unknown}}
{{youtubevid|5s2fObMHJNM|Missingnoxpert|Unknown}}

==Trivia==
* Super Glitch moves have a tendency to change player's Pokémon into a [[MissingNo.]] with a hexadecimal 7F, change a large amount of moves to Waterfall, and set some Pokémon to level 127. This happens because the tile with 7F is the space character, which is widely used on screen to display textboxes and aligned lists.
* The only factor preventing the player from saving the game after using Super Glitch is the corrupted player name. So theoretically, with enough luck, Super Glitch may bring a name with an end of string symbol, and the player would be eventually able to save with the corrupted data.
** Despite this, one would still have to view a special text box (such as the "HEAL/CANCEL" ones at Pokémon Centers) to avoid any glitch message boxes crashing the game.
* Contrary to popular belief, using a Super Glitch move isn't any more destructive than viewing it in the fight menu; both are equally destructive. 
* Super Glitches may sometimes reveal certain unused data portions, like beta battle systems in {{game|Yellow}} or the cardinal direction boxset.
* Super Glitch index A6 is especially dangerous, since its invalid name points to a constant memory location, which always causes {{wp|memory corruption}}. According to [http://forums.glitchcity.info/index.php/topic,6992.msg198569.html#msg198569 TheZZAZZGlitch], since older versions of VBA do not emulate VRAM inaccessibility, index A7 name is displayed as "qq", because of a B0 B0 50 pattern in VRAM at address $83C5, thus the move will not cause any side-effects (while it will cause memory corruption if viewed in the overworld). On BGB (and real console), the finishing 0x50 byte at $83C7 is not read, causing Super Glitch effects.

==External links==
* [http://forums.glitchcity.info/index.php/topic,6627.msg189314.html Thread on Glitch City Laboratories]
* [http://forums.glitchcity.info/index.php/topic,6629.0.html Glitch box-sets]
* [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2_aczBkpxM A YouTube video, showing examples on how to manipulate Super Glitch's effects]

==References==
<references/>

{{Glitches}} 
{{DoubleProjectTag|GlitchDex|Moves and Abilities|glitches in the Pokémon games and moves, respectively.}}

[[Category:Glitches]]
[[Category:Glitch moves]]

[[zh:超级错误（错误招式）]]

User talk:Aidanzapunk

2017-03-07T03:57:32Z

Felthry: /* "Fix your image uploading thing"? */

Pokémon world

2017-03-02T14:25:40Z

Felthry: Undo edits by RedHailfire: Unnecessary, excessive links

{{featured|January 19, 2010}}
:''For other uses, see [[Pokémon world (disambiguation)]].''
----
[[File:PokemonWorldAnime.png|thumb|240px|An orbital view of the Pokémon world, seen in the anime. Note its resemblance to Earth.]]
[[File:Unova world map.png|200px|thumb|Map showing only the landscape. [[Unova]] is highlighted by the squared cursor. Note the overt similarities to Europe at the bottom of the picture; the {{wp|Scandinavian Peninsula}} looks practically unchanged.]]
[[File:Pokémon world hologram.png|240px|thumb|A hologram depicting the Pokémon world. Note that it appears identical to Earth.]]
The '''Pokémon world''' (Japanese: '''ポケモンの{{tt|世界|せかい}}''' ''Pokémon world'') is the main planet for the [[Pokémon]] [[Canon|franchise]], set in the [[Pokémon universe]]. It bears some striking similarities with the [[Pokémon world in relation to the real world|real world]], certainly deriving inspiration from it, but many factors set it apart as a different place from our own world. The world of Pokémon is based on Japanese culture but various other cultures are also added and mixed.<ref>[http://www.gamefreak.co.jp/blog/dir_english/?p=152 Hidden Power of Masuda: Director's Columns]</ref>

==History==
{{main|History of the Pokémon world}}
It is said in many [[Sinnoh myths|Sinnoh legends]] that the universe, Pokémon world included, was created by a single {{OBP|Pokémon|species}}, {{p|Arceus}}. In a void of nothingness, a single {{pkmn|Egg}} came into being, which then hatched into {{p|Arceus}}. Arceus creates {{p|Dialga}}, {{p|Palkia}}, and {{p|Giratina}} and gives Dialga and Palkia the abilities to control time and space. Giratina is banished into [[Distortion World|another dimension]] for its behavior. Then, during very early formation of the world, possibly sooner, Arceus creates {{p|Azelf}}, {{p|Uxie}}, and {{p|Mesprit}} to create willpower, knowledge, and emotion, respectively, attributes that are in all modern [[human]]s and Pokémon. After the formation of the [[Sinnoh]] [[region]], they dive to the bottom of present-day [[Lake Valor]], [[Lake Acuity]], and [[Lake Verity]], respectively, dubbing the term "the lake guardians." Also in these early times, {{p|Mew}} appeared on the planet, containing the DNA of every Pokémon. There are many scientists who believe that Mew was the ancestor of all Pokémon.<ref>Because it can use all kinds of moves, many scientists believe Mew to be the ancestor of Pokémon. ''Pokémon Diamond, Pearl and Platinum Pokédex entry''</ref><ref>Because it is able to use every move, there are many scientists who believe that it is the ancestor of all Pokémon. ''Pokémon Black and White Pokédex entry''</ref>
[[File:Weather trio.png‎|left|thumb|220px|{{p|Groudon}} and {{p|Kyogre}}'s great battle]]
The next to come into being during the primal age are {{p|Groudon|Primal Groudon}}, {{p|Kyogre|Primal Kyogre}}, and {{p|Rayquaza}}. It has been speculated that Primal Groudon was formed deep inside the earth from magma and Primal Kyogre was formed by the pressure in the deep sea trenches, while Rayquaza was formed by the minerals of the ozone layer. Another theory exists that the three already existed before the oceans, lands, and ozone layer did, and rather proceeded to create these components of the planet themselves. Rayquaza proceeds to fly around in the ozone layer, occasionally coming to rest at the [[Sky Pillar]]. Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre proceed to create landmass and fill the sea, respectively. A chance meeting turns the two into rivals, and a conflict for dominance over the Pokémon world begins. Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre also fought for the entry of nature that was overflowing at the time. These endless clashes continued until Mega Rayquaza quells it, causing Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre to retreat to special caverns, where they rest, losing their [[Primal Reversion|Primal Forms]] sometime after they went to sleep. The Red and Blue Orbs are created to prevent the reawakening of Groudon and Kyogre, and to trigger the [[Primal Reversion]] when either Groudon and Kyogre are awakened by the representing orbs. The Red and Blue Orbs were left at [[Mt. Pyre]] for safekeeping.

At this time, Mew may have been plentiful and lived in large numbers. Landmasses such as [[Mt. Coronet]] are created, and {{p|Regigigas}} moves the continents, forming various [[region]]s. The [[Sinnoh]] [[region]] is created around [[Mt. Coronet]]. During this violent procedure, [[Stark Mountain]] is created and {{p|Heatran}} is formed in lava. Arceus creates the Adamant, Lustrous and Griseous Orbs before falling into a never-ending sleep.
[[File:Unreleased Unown 2.png|thumb|Ancient {{p|Unown}} seen in many different languages and ages]]
Many years after, the prehistoric era begins and the first prehistoric Pokémon come into being. Scientists have proven that prehistoric Pokémon roamed the land, as [[Fossil]]s and other archaeological remains have been found to contain the DNA of Pokémon. It is possible that the Mew population on the planet may have decreased at this stage, as they slowly gave way to other Pokémon species. Evolution has come, separating humans from Pokémon, to create the first humans.

During the Stone, Ice, and Iron Ages, the [[Legendary titans]] are created, and used as keys to seal away {{p|Regigigas}} in the [[Snowpoint Temple]]. {{p|Regirock}}, {{p|Regice}} and {{p|Registeel}} are hidden in the [[Hoenn]] [[region]].
[[File:Brass Tower HGSS.png‎|[[Brass Tower]] after the fire, 150 years later.|thumb|left]]
1500 years before modern times, the earliest known system for writing is developed and used at the [[Ruins of Alph]], [[Tanoby Ruins]], and [[Solaceon Ruins]]. Archaeologists are currently unsure whether the nearly identical {{p|Unown}} preceded or succeeded the writing system, but it is assumed they share some sort of connection. At this point, the {{p|Magikarp}} population mutated and became weaker.

In recent history, 700 years before modern times, the [[Tin Tower]] and the [[Brass Tower]] were constructed. These two nine-tier towers were built opposite each other in Ecruteak City. The towers were built to foster friendship and hope between Pokémon and people. The view from the top of the towers was said to be 'magnificent'. In the west was [[Brass Tower]], which was said to awaken Pokémon, and in the east was the Tin Tower, where Pokémon were said to rest. At the time, {{p|Lugia|an immense silver-colored Pokémon}}, was said to make its roost atop the [[Brass Tower]], while its counterpart, the glorious rainbow-colored {{p|Ho-Oh}} was said to rest at the Tin Tower. However, around 150 years before the games, a lightning bolt struck the Brass Tower. It was engulfed in flames that raged for 3 days. Lugia and Ho-Oh escaped to the skies unharmed. A sudden downpour put an end to the blaze. In-game lore states that three Pokémon died in the fire, but Ho-Oh was able to revive them as the [[Legendary beasts]], {{p|Raikou}}, {{p|Entei}}, and {{p|Suicune}}. Legends and folklore state that Raikou symbolizes the lightning bolt that struck the tower, Entei symbolizes the flames that raged for three days, and Suicune symbolizes the sudden downpour that extinguished the flames. Around this time, the first [[Pokémon League]] competitions started to take place. In the 1990s, a Pokémon was created by scientific engineering for the first time, called {{p|Porygon}}.
[[File:Dialga-Palkia-Giratina.png|thumb|230px|{{p|Dialga}}, {{p|Palkia}} and {{p|Giratina}} on the [[Spear Pillar]].]]
In contemporary history, some years prior to the date, {{p|Mewtwo}} is cloned from {{p|Mew}}, and later escapes and destroys [[Cinnabar Island]]'s {{ka|Pokémon Mansion}}. Soon after, an erupting volcano on [[Cinnabar Island]] causes the destruction of many areas on the island. Around this time, the [[Team Rocket]] syndicate, under the leadership of [[Giovanni]], spreads its control over various areas of the [[Kanto]] region until [[Red]] defeats [[Giovanni]], prompting him to disband the organization and pursue a life of training. Despite this, [[Team Rocket]] operations continue for a little while longer on the [[Sevii Islands]] and in the [[Johto]] region. Sometime around the end of [[Team Rocket]]'s operations, [[Red]] climbs and waits at the summit of [[Mt. Silver]]. Along with that, the leaders of Teams [[Team Aqua|Aqua]] and [[Team Magma|Magma]] reawaken {{p|Groudon}} and {{p|Kyogre}} and they continue their great battle, only to be stopped again by {{p|Rayquaza}}. Groudon and Kyogre retreat to the region of [[Fiore]] to rest after their battle.

In modern history, the [[Sinnoh]] region has become unusually colder, due to the strange circumstances occurring across the region. The [[creation trio|Legendary trio of Sinnoh]] are also awoken by a villainous team; [[Team Galactic]] use a [[Red Chain]] forged from the [[lake guardians]] to summon {{p|Dialga}}, {{p|Palkia}} and {{p|Giratina}}. Their efforts are halted due to interference from the {{player}}. At this time, a rip in time-space has occurred, opening a portal to the [[Distortion World]]. Giratina escapes into its dimension along with [[Cyrus]], the [[Team Galactic]] leader. The entrance to the Distortion World closes, returning the [[Sinnoh]] region back to normal. Some years after this, [[Team Plasma]] attempts to free Pokémon from human capture, but for selfish reasons. {{p|Reshiram}} and {{p|Zekrom}} are awoken due to Team Plasma and the player. The player, siding with one of the two dragons, battles against [[N]] to test if N's convictions were correct. After this, the player defeats [[Ghetsis]], and [[N]] leaves to a distant land with his dragon, while the player keeps theirs. Two years later, Team Plasma returns, but with the intention to take over Unova. {{p|Kyurem}} is captured by Ghetsis, and fused with N's dragon (either Zekrom{{sup/5|B2}} or Reshiram{{sup/5|W2}}) to form Black Kyurem or White Kyurem respectively. The player defeats the new dragon, and Team Plasma is disbanded for good.

Concurrently with Team Plasma's return, [[Team Flare]], in [[Kalos]], tries to destroy the world and make a more beautiful one with the help of {{p|Xerneas}}{{sup/6|X}} or {{p|Yveltal}}{{sup/6|Y}}. The player, along with [[Shauna]] and {{ga|Serena}}/{{ga|Calem}}, save {{p|Xerneas}}{{sup/6|X}} or {{p|Yveltal}}{{sup/6|Y}}. [[Lysandre]] then uses the last bit of energy the [[ultimate weapon]] has, and ends up destroying both the weapon and the [[Team Flare Secret HQ]]. Lysandre is not seen again.

==Culture==
:''See also: [[Human#Culture|Human → Culture]]''
[[File:Ever Grande Conference.png|thumb|left|220px|The [[Ever Grande Conference]]]]
Culturally, the many depictions of the world all reflect a popular fascination with {{OBP|Pokémon|species}} and their interactions with [[human]]s, including {{pkmn2|caught|catching}} them, {{pkmn|training}} them, {{pkmn|battle|battling}} them, {{pkmn|breeding|raising}} them, keeping them as pets, studying them, and utilizing their varied skills. Several [[Sinnoh myths|myths]] discuss the relationship between humans and Pokémon as a very close one, and one folk tale even says that there was a time when humans and Pokémon were considered one and the same.

The [[history of the Pokémon world]] is notably different from the real world, and seems to be dictated primarily between the interactions between humans and Pokémon. There does not seem to be a major world religion, but some believe in the ancient myths based around {{pkmn2|Legendary}} and [[Mythical Pokémon]], so it is plausible that the population believes in ''Pokémon'' as their religion. Backing this up, most people are generally kind and respect Pokémon. Shinto shrines and crosses have both been seen. In [[Hearthome City]], the Foreign Building appears to be a Christian church. Also, in the [[Pokémon anime]], {{an|Brock}} made reference to the story of {{wp|Noah}} featured in the Old Testament of the Bible in ''[[EP016|Pokémon Shipwreck]]''. In the [[Pokémon Adventures]] {{pkmn|manga}}, [[Wanda]] and {{adv|Riley}} had a Christian-like wedding in ''[[PS320|Verily Vanquishing Vileplume II]]''.

However, there exist [[Villainous teams|many individuals]] that wish to harness Pokémon for their own nefarious deeds. Some of these people are simply do so for material gain while others hold misguided ideals to help the world. In addition, war is not unknown to the Pokémon world, [[Lt. Surge]] having fought in at least one. [[Weaponry in the Pokémon world|Firearms and other weapons]] exist, but are not used as often as Pokémon are.

==Pokémon==
[[File:Pokemon breeder.png|thumb|210px|People and Pokémon working together, as seen in the TCG]]
Pokémon are living creatures that inhabit the Pokémon world, living alongside, and usually helping, humans. Pokémon have been seen within this world as being both supplements and replacements for animals and plants that exist within the real world. Most people respect Pokémon and treat them kindly, yet there exist people who take advantage of them and exploit their abilities for their own gain. Pokémon have feelings and can also understand the human language to some extent. Recreations of natural ecosystems are done with Pokémon. While some Pokémon have abilities that are normal or only slightly distorted from reality, many more Pokémon have abilities that are completely original and have no counterparts within the real world. Other Pokémon are based on [[Legendary Pokémon|legends that exist in our world]] such as {{p|Ho-Oh}} being based on a {{wp|phoenix}}.

===Evolution===
[[File:Unova starters evolution artwork.png|thumb|left|240px|The final evolutions of the starters of [[Unova]]]]
In a [[Sinnoh myths|Sinnoh myth]], it is said that Pokémon and people were originally the same species. Over time, some of these creatures split apart from the rest and became humans. This theory has been explored many times throughout the Pokémon world, but not proven. {{p|Mew}} is said to be the ancestor of all life: it {{wp|evolution|evolved}} into the other Pokémon. The first human recording was during the Stone Age, millions of years before the modern era. Biological taxonomies of cellular and genetic structure have revealed that Pokémon are all actually a single species of life form and that the individual differences between each creature are actually subspecies. This can also explain why Pokémon can variously interbreed with each other. This explores the myth of evolution in the Pokémon world and makes a reference to evolution of animals and humans in the real world.

In modern times, Pokémon commonly undergo a process called [[evolution]]. During the course of a Pokémon's development, under certain circumstances specific to that Pokémon's subspecies, it may become a different Pokémon. This change is not merely physical, however, as Pokémon of a higher evolutionary stage have different and usually more powerful [[base stats]] than their predecessors, may have different [[move]]s that can be learned, and sometimes change their [[type]]s, though the primary type is usually preserved. Most Pokémon will undergo this process.

Evolution in Pokémon, for most subspecies, is more akin to {{wp|metamorphosis}} than to actual evolution. The Pokémon whose evolution is closest to the real-world definition of evolution is {{p|Burmy}}, who takes on a different appearance depending on the environment.

===Reproduction===
{{main|Pokémon breeding}}
Nearly every Pokémon undergoes some form of reproduction. Fully developed, or Pokémon that passed their [[Baby Pokémon|baby form]] can breed with Pokémon of the same [[Egg Group]]. Pokémon that have no genders can only breed with {{p|Ditto}}; baby Pokémon and [[Legendary Pokémon]] cannot breed at all, with the exception of {{p|Manaphy}} and {{p|Phione}}. Like the majority of real animals, most Pokémon have genders which can sometimes be determined by markings and gender-differences. Usually, a Trainer's Pokémon will breed in a [[Pokémon Day Care]]. It is unknown how a Pokémon reproduces, as no one has seen a Pokémon reproduce. Based on this, it is safe to assume that they only reproduce when left alone.
[[File:SugimoriEggs.png|thumb|180px|Eggs of {{p|Togepi}} and {{p|Elekid}}]]
All Pokémon able to breed lay {{pkmn|Egg}}s. Though, nobody has actually seen a Pokémon lay an Egg, they apparently appear by the Pokémon. Pokémon usually lay one Egg at a time, sometimes, in unusual occasions, lay various Eggs at a time. Pokémon Eggs are similar to birds' Eggs, as they have a hard outer shell that protects the growing, undeveloped Pokémon inside. An Egg's shell usually has a pattern reflecting the appearance of the Pokémon inside making each Pokémon Egg unique from one another. Pokémon, like animals, are rather protective of their Eggs. They sometimes nest them, but usually keep them close to themselves. The growing Pokémon incubates inside its Egg until the time come for the Pokémon to hatch. The time it takes for a Pokémon to hatch varies from each Pokémon species and the type of Egg. However, placing an Egg into a PC will halt the incubation process.

Some Pokémon species have a [[Baby Pokémon|baby form]] when they hatch from their Eggs. Once in their adult stages, these Pokémon are able to reproduce and continue the cycle of reproduction. Most baby Pokémon can only hatch as a baby Pokémon. However, there are some exceptions. Some Pokémon hatch into a more advanced form most of the time, but can also hatch into a baby form when [[incense|conditions]] are right.

===Pokémon as food===
It is stated in multiple Pokédex entries that some Pokémon are known to eat others, such as {{p|Pidgeot}} swooping down to catch a {{p|Magikarp}} meal from the water. Humans have also been implied to eat Pokémon, with the player's {{jo|Mom}}'s {{isl|Cinnabar}} Volcano Burgers and [[Team Rocket]]'s plot to sell {{DL|Valuable items|SlowpokeTail}}s as a sweet treat in [[Generation II]] and {{game|HeartGold and SoulSilver|s}}. {{p|Farfetch'd}} itself is based on a specific manner for preparing a meal of duck, with its rarity in the wild being a result of overhunting. Several of the [[Sinnoh myths]] also mention eating Pokémon, saying that they will be born again if their bones are picked clean and returned to where the Pokémon was found.

===Classification===
Pokémon have been enumerated in several different regions by their local [[Pokémon professor]]s, taking their primary example from [[Professor Oak]], the developer of the first [[Pokédex]]. While Oak's initial development only counted the 151 Pokémon [[List of Pokémon by Kanto Pokédex number|native to]] the [[Kanto]] region, by collaborating with the other professors to develop separate [[regional Pokédex|Pokédex listings]] for each region, the [[National Pokédex]], which counts all Pokémon known, currently catalogs {{numpkmn}} Pokémon.

Pokémon are also classified according to several different [[type]]s, depending on their strengths, weaknesses, and the moves they learn. Each of these types has certain strengths and weaknesses against others, with a total of 18 types identified so far. Pokémon are known to have either one or two types. Pokémon's types can be changed by moves like {{m|Soak}} and {{m|Conversion}}, and through abilities like {{a|Color Change}}.

==Geography and nature==
[[File:RegionsMoviesMap.jpg|thumb|500px|A map of the [[Pokémon nation|nation]] in which the games and anime take place (Alola, Kalos, Decolore Islands, and Unova are not pictured)]]
The Pokémon world looks and acts like the real world in terms of geography. Each have landforms, oceans of water (the [[Oceanic Museum]] has an exhibit claiming over two-thirds of the world is covered by water, the same as Earth), and temperatures to support life - meaning that the Pokémon world is about the same size and same distances from its sun as the real world. Misty even directly refers to the Pokémon world as Earth in ''[[M05|Pokémon Heroes: Latios & Latias]]''. However, if the Pokémon world is ''not'' Earth, it must be similar, having a similar {{wp|moon}}, similar climates, and so on, which explains the similar tides. Many different theories exist as to exactly how the Pokémon world relates to our own.

Humans and nature in the Pokémon world are linked to each other, as many towns are built around the natural environment. A point of interest, unlike the real world, is that people's links with the nature are strong and they never try to affect the natural environment, with the exception of some [[villainous teams]]. Some Pokémon such as {{p|Groudon}} and {{p|Kyogre}} can affect and shape nature causing unexplainable droughts, storms and earthquakes that can affect the continental plates.

{{p|Arcanine}}'s Pokédex entry states that it is considered legendary in China; in the anime, [[Jessie]]'s mother was said to have been lost in an expedition in the Andes; and lab reports in {{OBP|Pokémon Mansion|Kanto}} state that {{p|Mew}} was discovered in Guyana, South America. These observations imply some possibility of the Pokémon world being the same as the "real world", only with extra regions.

===Structure===
[[File:KantoJohtoAreas.png|thumb|200px|In-game map from {{2v2|HeartGold|SoulSilver}} showing the connection between Kanto and Johto]]
The Pokémon world is split into several regions, [[Kanto]], [[Johto]], [[Hoenn]], [[Orre]], [[Sinnoh]], [[Unova]], [[Kalos]] and [[Alola]] among them. These regions are large landforms much like continents in the real world, which support a large political [[region]]. Off these regions are islands that are not part of any region. These islands are grouped together to create one small region like the [[Orange Archipelago|Orange Islands]] and the [[Sevii Islands]]. Though there are many similarities between them, there are some major differences between the regions, such as what Pokémon are located there and what legends there are waiting to be uncovered. Visitors from another region quickly realize that the region they are visiting is far from their home, both in the way of the climate, and in the culture of the people there. The regions are generally thought to be part of a larger country because of the term [[National Pokédex]], but they are all perhaps part of a {{wp|world nation}}. There are, as of Generation VII, only seven primary regions, yet others such as [[Almia]] and [[Fiore]] have been introduced in other games. Several small kingdoms have been introduced in the {{pkmn|anime}} as well, most of which keep themselves secluded in remote or difficult to reach areas.

[[File:Pokemon-to-real-world.png|thumb|left|175px|Regions in relation to {{wp|Japan}}]]
The geography of the regions is strikingly [[Pokémon world in relation to the real world|similar]] to {{wp|Japan}}, but in a much larger scale, as seen in [[M05|the fifth movie]] (the only time when the entire planet is clearly shown). The {{wp|Kanto region|Kantō region}} of Japan is not only identical in name to [[Kanto]] in the Pokémon world, it is also very similar geographically; however, the western part of Kanto corresponds to eastern {{wp|Chubu region|Chūbu}}. In Japan, the Kanto region is often contrasted with {{wp|Kansai}}, which is like Johto, to the west. However, Johto is geographically more similar to the combined region of Kansai and western {{wp|Chubu}}. Hoenn is based on the southernmost parts of Japan—{{wp|Kyushu|Kyūshū}} and {{wp|Okinawa Prefecture|Okinawa}}—with the latter highly condensed. Orre is based on the United States state of {{wp|Arizona}}. Sinnoh has been said to be an island like Hoenn, rather than a peninsula. It is based on the northernmost major island of Japan, {{wp|Hokkaido}}, part of {{wp|Sakhalin}} and {{wp|Kunashir Island}}. Unova has been said to be based on the island of {{wp|Manhattan}} and the {{wp|New York City Metropolitan Area}}, and Kalos is based on northern {{wp|France}}, with many cultural similarities between the country and the region, such as language, music, and architecture. [[Alola]] is based of {{wp|Hawaii}}, with similar geography to its real life counterpart. Regardless, the {{pkmn|games}} have referenced real places on Earth, such as {{wp|South America}}, {{wp|Australia}}, {{wp|China}}, {{wp|Antarctic}}, the {{wp|United States}}, and the {{wp|Pacific Ocean}}, while the anime (and related products) have referenced places such as [[Hollywood]], {{wp|California}}, {{wp|Minnesota}}, {{wp|England}}, and {{wp|Paris}}.

===Climate===
[[File:Diamond Dust IV.png|thumb|{{DL|Snowpoint City|Diamond dust}} twinkles in [[Snowpoint City]]]]
[[File:BW Prerelease seasons autumn.png|thumb|left|[[Seasons|Autumn]] in the Unova region]]
Most regions have different climates. Regions and islands like the [[Hoenn]] and the [[Orange Archipelago|Orange Islands]] further south in the Pokémon world have a warmer climate than northerly regions, possibly due to an {{wp|equator}}, much like on Earth. It gets so hot in Hoenn that there is a desert with a raging sandstorm. Meanwhile, the [[Sinnoh]] region is cooler than other regions, and becoming colder due to climate change in the region. It is snowing constantly in the northern area of the region. Some Pokémon such as {{p|Groudon}}, {{p|Kyogre}} and {{p|Rayquaza}} can affect climate and weather.

Weather conditions still apply in the Pokémon world, and as clouds and {{weather|rain}} exist, so must the {{wp|water cycle}}. Many weather conditions that appear on Earth are also in the Pokémon world, such as {{weather|rain}}, {{weather|hail}}storms, {{weather|snow}}, {{weather|fog}}, and {{weather|sandstorm}}s. Given that plants and trees seem to grow in a normal manner, it can be reasonably assumed that the other major cycles, such as the {{wp|carbon cycle}} and the {{wp|nitrogen cycle}}, exist as well.

===Environment===
[[File:Mt. Coronet.png‎|thumb|180px|[[Mt. Coronet]], the tallest mountain in the [[Sinnoh]] [[region]]]]
The natural environment in the Pokémon world is much similar to the real Earth's environment. Areas with a high density of trees make up forests, landscapes that receive very little precipitation create deserts, while loose broken-up particles of rock make large coastal beaches attracting people and Pokémon alike. The [[Hoenn]] and the [[Sinnoh]] regions boast many dramatic environments ranging from rainforests to deserts.

The Pokémon world is mainly green and lush, based on factors such as plant structures including trees, shrubs, and grasses. Grass is usually uncontrolled and makes [[tall grass|tall grass patches]] that form prime habitats for [[wild Pokémon]]. There is a [[Sinnoh Myths#Sinnoh Region's Mythology|Sinnoh Myth]] that explains why Pokémon appear when people walk into the [[tall grass]]: When Sinnoh had just been created, a Pokémon proposed that they should always be ready to help the humans. There are also large mountainous areas that tower above low-lying land areas. The largest mountain range is [[Mt. Coronet]], which stretches from the top to the bottom of Sinnoh, splitting the whole region in two. Man-made and natural occurrences form [[cave]]s in the mountainsides that are able to be explored or passed through to get to other cities. Many natural phenomenons appear in the Pokémon world such as snowing ash that covers the area is caused by the nearby volcano that smokes and rains down on the area.

Humans and nature in the Pokémon world are linked to each other, as many towns are built around its environment and they never try to affect the natural environment. [[Pacifidlog Town]], for example, is built on wooden rafts and logs that float on top of a {{p|Corsola}} colony, while [[Sootopolis City]] is built in the crater of a hollowed, erupted volcano. An ecosystem is formed when all plants, Pokémon, and people in an area function together with all of the non-living physical factors of the environment. It is said that Pokémon are more in tune with nature than humans.
{{left clear}}

==Population==
Adding up the town- and city-based populations of every core series region yields a minimum population of at least 4,052 people in the Pokémon world.

==Physics and technology==
[[File:Gold Silver Ethan Time Capsule.png|thumb|150px|A Time Capsule, used to teleport Pokémon back in time]]
Science and technology in the Pokémon world is more advanced than the real world. Technological advances have evolved the Pokémon world, scientists have created ways to [[Pokémon Storage System|store Pokémon on computers]], [[Global Terminal|send Pokémon around the world]], [[Time Capsule|send Pokémon back in time]] and [[Fossil|clone Fossils to create prehistoric Pokémon]], yet people's lives in the games are simple and very natural. Scientific achievements such as {{wp|cloning}} and [[Poké Ball|energy conversion]] mingle with magical elements such as spontaneous [[evolution]] and [[Time flower|flowers]] that can replay a short time sequence, giving one the sense that the Pokémon world is very different from our own. The state of technology conceivably places the timeframe we see in either the present day, or perhaps in the future, but this is merely speculative. Scientists at the [[Devon Corporation]] and other companies are still working on more advanced and slightly impossible inventions like a Pokémon Dream Projector that makes a visual projection of Pokémon dreams, Pokémon Speaker that allows communication with Pokémon, and a Pokémon Transformator that turns people into Pokémon (which Bill accidentally did when testing his teleporter). {{wp|Antigravity}} machines exist alongside basic means of travel such as [[bicycle]]s and trucks.

One of the most advanced and commonly used technology in the Pokémon world is the [[Poké Ball]] which transforms a Pokémon into energy so it can be contained in the small ball. In a {{pkmn|battle}}, once the opposing [[wild Pokémon]] has been weakened, the {{pkmn|Trainer}} will throw a Poké Ball at it. Assuming the Poké Ball hits it and is not dodged or hit back to the Trainer, the Poké Ball will open, convert the wild Pokémon to an energy form, pull the energy into its hollow center, and then close. The wild Pokémon will then be given the chance to struggle to try to escape the Poké Ball. Poké Balls originated from [[Apricorn]]s, which is a non-synthetic Poké Ball. Old Apricorn Poké Balls were able to be unscrewed at the disproportionate top and manually be released, to let the Pokémon out. There are now several different kinds of Poké Balls, each for different occasions, including the [[Master Ball]] which is able to capture a wild Pokémon without failure.

[[File:Open PokeBall.png|thumb|left|A Poké Ball, the most common technology used in the Pokémon World]]
Despite the amount of advanced technology available, comparatively few [[Transportation in the Pokémon world|modes of transportation]] are seen. This may be because the world is often shown through the eyes of a [[Pokémon Trainer]], who usually travel on foot for a variety of practical reasons such as cost and finding [[wild Pokémon]]. However, there is a possibility that some transportation such as cars and trucks are harmful to the natural environment and Pokémon by the poisonous pollution from the vehicles. The most common transportation used to get to other regions or islands is by sailing by boat or ship, as it is a quick and easy way to get to other lands, while most regions have their own ferry. People can also use Pokémon for transportation by {{m|fly}}ing or {{m|Surf|swimming}}.

While Pokémon are generally tolerant of human settlements being constructed, most will often react with hostility to any human attempts to truly cause harm to the natural environment. In ''[[EP031|Dig Those Diglett!]]'', not only did a large group of Diglett and Dugtrio constantly hamper construction of a dam that would have destroyed much of the local habitat, the Pokémon of several Trainers invited to the scene to deal with the attacks refused to come out of their Poké Balls, and is one of the rare instances of [[Ash's Pikachu]] refusing to fight, which prompted Ash, Misty, and Brock to investigate further. In return, Pokémon are often seen providing several services that in the real world are performed by technology: {{t|Water}}- and {{type|Ground}} Pokémon are often used to fight fires, {{type|Electric}} Pokémon used as a clean source of electrical power, and so on.

In the anime, the physics of the Pokémon world are sometimes stretched to [[anime physics|unrealistic degrees]]. Some common examples are unusual feats of strength and agility, surviving lethal attacks, and {{wp|hammerspace}}.
{{-}}

==Trivia==
* Kanto and Johto are the only regions known to be adjacent to each other.
* The existence of [[foreign Pokédex entries]], different {{p|Unown}} markings, Pokémon names that differ between locations (seen in [[PSs2|a special round]] of [[Pokémon Adventures]]), and characters like the {{DL|foreign Pokédex entries|In Generation IV|Meister}}, [[Fantina]], and [[Looker]] point to the fact that there are other languages in the Pokémon world (although it is unknown what other language(s) Looker speaks, his speech patterns indicate that he is not a native speaker of the language used by people from the [[Pokémon nation]]). The Kalos region is implied as a {{wp|bilingual}} region, with many signs being written in French such as menus, and people often drop occasional French words into sentences.
* Regular [[Animals in the Pokémon world|animals]] have been seen in some of the older media while regular plants like apple trees or pine trees are still seen often or even daily. There is a possibility that both animals and Pokémon exist within this world in a complicated ecosystem; often real animals are referenced in a Pokédex entry, especially if the Pokémon being referred to is based on an animal. Humans and plants exist, helping this theory.
* [[Junichi Masuda]] once stated in an interview:
::"We actually don't think of the world of Pokémon as Earth. If we were to do that, we would kind of be limited by what we could do. By thinking about how physical objects work on Earth and how various elements work on Earth, we would kind of be limited to that if we thought of it as Earth. We think of it as a place that is really similar to Earth, but is a different planet of its own with people in it who may be similar to people on Earth, but they have different values so they care about different things. It's the type of place, the Pokémon world, where problems we face on Earth just wouldn't happen. There wouldn't be global warming, water shortages, or anything like that. It's a world where the people in it really want to work together with each other. Their value system is such where they would prefer to work together and eliminate these problems rather than feud."<ref>[http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2012/11/23/pok-233-mon-39-s-burning-questions.aspx Pokémon's Burning Questions]</ref>

==External links==
===On Bulbagarden forums===
*[http://forums.bulbagarden.net/index.php?forums/general-pokemon-discussion.313/ Pokémon world discussion forum]

==References==
<references/>

{{Regions}}

[[Category:Pokémon world|*]]
[[Category:Locations]]

[[it:Mondo Pokémon]]
[[zh:精灵宝可梦世界]]

Pokémon Zensho

2017-03-02T04:39:58Z

User talk:RedHailfire

2017-02-28T22:41:44Z

Felthry: /* Linking to pages */ Link to the list of link templates, just in case.

User talk:Felthry

2017-02-28T20:52:39Z

Felthry: /* Help */

Talk:Steelworker (Ability)

2017-02-28T16:29:33Z

Felthry: Added title, replied

== Steel-type Steelworker? ==

Hypothetically if a steel type managed to gain this ability will the STAB damage carry over or will it remains at 50%? Example could be a skill swap bronzor/bronzong or a roleplay pawniard/bisharp [[User:Badwolf1234|Badwolf1234]] ([[User talk:Badwolf1234|talk]]) 14:57, 28 February 2017 (UTC)
:I haven't tested this myself, but I am almost certain that the STAB damage will carry over, as STAB damage and Ability modifiers are applied separately (see [[Damage]]). --[[User:Felthry|Felthry]] ([[User talk:Felthry|talk]]) 16:29, 28 February 2017 (UTC)

Damage

2017-02-28T16:26:03Z

Felthry: /* Damage calculation */ This multiplication is always the case; see talk page.

[[File:Ash Pokémon injured.png|thumb|300px|{{cat|Ash's Pokémon}} injured after a battle]]
'''Damage''' (Japanese: '''ダメージ''' ''damage'') is a loss of a Pokémon's {{stat|HP}} that happens as the result of a [[physical move|physical]] or [[special move|special]] [[move|attack]] used against it by another Pokémon.

==Damage calculation==
Except for {{cat|moves that deal direct damage}}, the damage dealt when a Pokémon uses a damaging move depends on its [[level]], its effective Attack or Special Attack [[statistic|stat]], the opponent's effective Defense or Special Defense stat, and the move's effective [[power]]. In addition, various factors of damage modification may also affect the damage dealt.

More precisely, damage is calculated as

:[[File:DamageCalc.png|x54px]]

where

* ''Level'' is the [[level]] of the attacking Pokémon (or twice the level for a [[critical hit]] in [[Generation I]]).
* ''A'' is the effective Attack stat of the attacking Pokémon if the used move is a [[physical move]], or the effective Special Attack stat of the attacking Pokémon if the used move is a [[special move]].
* ''D'' is the effective Defense stat of the defending Pokémon if the used move is a [[physical move]] or a {{cat|Moves that use stats from different categories|special move that uses the defending Pokémon's Defense stat}}, or the effective Special Defense of the defending Pokémon if the used move is an other [[special move]].
* ''Power'' is the effective [[power]] of the used move.

and ''Modifier'' is

:[[File:ModifierCalc.png|x18px]]

where

* ''Targets'' is 0.75 if the move has more than one [[target]], and 1 otherwise.
* ''Weather'' is 1.5 if a {{type|Water}} move is being used during [[rain]] or a {{type|Fire}} move during [[harsh sunlight]], and 0.5 if a Water-type move is used during harsh sunlight or a Fire-type move during rain, and 1 otherwise.
* ''Badge'' is applied in Generation II only. It is 1.25 if the attacking Pokémon is controlled by the player and if the player has obtained the [[Badge]] corresponding to the used move's [[type]], and 1 otherwise.
* ''Critical'' is applied starting in Generation II. It is 2 for a [[critical hit]] in Generations II-V, 1.5 for a critical hit from Generation VI onward, and 1 otherwise.
* ''random'' is a random factor between 0.85 and 1.00 (inclusive):
** From Generation III onward, it is a random integer percentage between 0.85 and 1.00 (inclusive)
** In Generations I and II, it is realized as a multiplication by a random uniformly distributed integer between 217 and 255 (inclusive), followed by an integer division by 255
* ''STAB'' is the [[same-type attack bonus]]. This is equal to 1.5 if the move's [[type]] matches any of the user's types, 2 if the user of the move additionally has {{a|Adaptability}}, and 1 if otherwise.
* ''Type'' is the [[#Type effectiveness|type effectiveness]] (as detailed below). This can be 0 (ineffective); 0.25, 0.5 (not very effective); 1 (normally effective); 2 or 4 (very effective) depending on both the move's and defending Pokémon's [[type]]s.
* ''Burn'' is 0.5 (from Generation III onward) if the attacker is {{status|burned}}, its Ability is not {{a|Guts}}, and the used move is a [[physical move]] (other than {{m|Facade}} from [[Generation VI]] onward), and 1 otherwise.
* ''other'' is 1 in most cases, and a different multiplier when specific interactions of moves, Abilities or items take effect:
:{| class="roundy expandable" style="background:#{{White color}}; border: 3px solid #{{Red color}}"
!Move
!Value
!Detail
|-
|{{m|Astonish}}
|2
|In Generation III only, if the used move, and the defender has previously used {{m|Minimize}}
|-
|{{m|Aurora Veil}}
|0.5 {{tt|*|~0.66 if there is more than one Pokémon on either side of the field}}
|If set on the defender's side, the move is not a [[critical hit]], and the user's Ability is not {{a|Infiltrator}}
|-
|{{m|Body Slam}}
|2
|From Generation VI onward, if the used move, and the defender has previously used {{m|Minimize}}
|-
|{{m|Bulldoze}}
|0.5
|If the used move, and the defender is affected by {{m|Grassy Terrain}}
|-
|{{m|Dragon Rush}}
|2
|From Generation VI onward, if the used move, and the defender has previously used {{m|Minimize}}
|-
|rowspan=2 |{{m|Earthquake}}
|0.5
|If the used move, and the defender is affected by {{m|Grassy Terrain}}
|-
|2
|From Generation V onward, if the used move, and the defender is in the semi-invulnarable turn of {{m|Dig}}
|-
|{{m|Extrasensory}}
|2
|In Generation III only, if the used move, and the defender has previously used {{m|Minimize}}
|-
|{{m|Flying Press}}
|2
|If the used move, and the defender has previously used {{m|Minimize}}
|-
|{{m|Heat Crash}}
|2
|From Generation VI onward, if the used move, and the defender has previously used {{m|Minimize}}
|-
|{{m|Heavy Slam}}
|2
|In Generation VII, if the used move, and the defender has previously used {{m|Minimize}}
|-
|{{m|Light Screen}}
|0.5 {{tt|*|~0.66 if there is more than one Pokémon on either side of the field}}
|Form Generation III onward, if set on the defender's side, the move used is special, not a [[critical hit]], and the user's Ability is not {{a|Infiltrator}}
|-
|rowspan=2 |{{m|Magnitude}}
|0.5
|If the used move, and defender is affected by {{m|Grassy Terrain}}
|-
|2
|From Generation V onward, if the used move, and the defender is in the semi-invulnarable turn of {{m|Dig}}
|-
|{{m|Misty Terrain}}
|0.5
|If the defender is affected by it, and the used move is {{type|Dragon}}
|-
|{{m|Needle Arm}}
|2
|In Generation III only, if the used move, and the defender has previously used {{m|Minimize}}
|-
|{{m|Phantom Force}}
|2
|If the used move, and the defender has previously used {{m|Minimize}}
|-
|{{m|Reflect}}
|0.5 {{tt|*|~0.66 if there is more than one Pokémon on either side of the field}}
|From Generation III onward, if set on the defender's side, the move used is physical, not a [[critical hit]], and the user's Ability is not {{a|Infiltrator}}
|-
|{{m|Shadow Force}}
|2
|If the used move, and the defender has previously used {{m|Minimize}}
|-
|{{a|Sniper}}
|1.5
|If the attacker has this Ability and the move was a critical hit
|-
|{{a|Solid Rock}}
|1.5
|If the defender has this Ability and the move was super effective (''Type'' > 1)
|-
|{{a|Stakeout}}
|2
|If the attacker has this Ability and the target has switched in
|-
|{{m|Stomp}}
|2
|In Generation III and from Generation V onward, if the used move, and the defender has previously used {{m|Minimize}}
|-
|{{m|Surf}}
|2
|From Generation V onward, if the used move, and the defender is in the semi-invulnarable turn of {{m|Dive}}
|-
|{{m|Whirlpool}}
|2
|From Generation V onward, If the used move, and the defender is in the semi-invulnarable turn of {{m|Dive}}
|-
|[[Z-Move]]s
|0.25
|If the used move is a damaging Z-Move the target has {{m|protect}}ed against
|}
:{| class="roundy expandable" style="background:#{{White color}}; border: 3px solid #{{Red color}}"
!Ability
!Value
!Detail
|-
|rowspan=2 |{{a|Fluffy}}
|0.5
|If the defender has this Ability, and the used move makes [[contact]] and is not {{type|Fire}}
|-
|2
|If the defender has this Ability, and the used move is {{type|Fire}} and does not make [[contact]]
|-
|{{a|Filter}}
|1.5
|If the defender has this Ability and the move was super effective (''Type'' > 1)
|-
|{{a|Friend Guard}}
|0.75
|If an ally of the defender has this Ability
|-
|{{a|Misty Surge}}
|0.5
|If the defender is affected by it, and the used move is {{type|Dragon}}
|-
|{{a|Multiscale}}
|0.5
|If the defender has this Ability and is at full health
|-
|{{a|Shadow Shield}}
|0.5
|If the defender has this Ability and is at full health
|-
|{{a|Sniper}}
|1.5
|If the attacker has this Ability and the move was a critical hit
|-
|{{a|Solid Rock}}
|1.5
|If the defender has this Ability and the move was super effective (''Type'' > 1)
|-
|{{a|Stakeout}}
|2
|If the attacker has this Ability and the target has switched in
|-
|{{a|Tinted Lens}}
|2
|If the attacker has this Ability and the move was not very effective (''Type'' < 1)
|}
:{| class="roundy expandable" style="background:#{{White color}}; border: 3px solid #{{Red color}}"
!Item
!Value
!Detail
|-
|[[Chilan Berry]]
|0.5
|If held by the defender, the move was Normal-type
|-
|{{DL|In-battle effect item|Expert Belt}}
|~1.2
|If held by the attacker and the move was super effective (''Type'' > 1)
|-
|{{DL|In-battle effect item|Life Orb}}
|~1.3
|If held by the attacker
|-
|{{DL|In-battle effect item|Metronome}}
|>1
|1 + (~20% per successfully used successive move) if held by the attacker, but no more than 2
|-
|{{cat|Damage-reducing Berries|Type-resist Berries}}
|0.5
|If held by the defender, the move was of the resisted type and super effective
|}
:If multiple effects influence the ''other'' value, their values stack multiplicatively. For example, if both {{a|Multiscale}} and a [[Chilan Berry]] take effect, ''other'' is <code>0.5 * 0.5 = 0.25</code>.

During the calculation, any operations are carried out on integers internally, such that effectively each division is a [[wp:Rounding#Rounding_to_integer|truncated integer division]] (rounding towards zero, cutting off any decimals), and any decimals are cut off after each multiplication operation. If the calculation yields <code>0</code>, the move will deal 1 HP damage instead; however, in [[Generation]]s {{gen|I}} and {{gen|V}}, different behavior may occur due to apparent oversights:
* In Generation I, if the calculation yields <code>0</code> because the target has two types that both resist the move's type, the move will miss as if it was ineffective;
* In Generation V, a move may deal 0 HP damage when ''other'' is less than <code>1</code>, because the routine to prevent 0 HP damage is erroneously performed before applying the ''other'' factor.

===Type effectiveness===
Since each move has a [[type]], its '''effectiveness''' (Japanese: '''{{tt|効果|こうか}}''' ''effectiveness'') is largely determined by the targeted Pokémon's type. Moves can have regular effectiveness or be super effective, not very effective, or not effective at all. The effectiveness of types against one another has varied among generations, see [[Type chart|this page]].

====Super effective====
:''"Super effective" redirects here. For the webcomic, see [[Super Effective (webcomic)]].''
:''"It's super effective" redirects here. For the podcast, see [[It's Super Effective (podcast)]].''
:''"Weakness" redirects here. For the TCG mechanic, see [[Appendix:Glossary (TCG)#Weakness|Appendix:Glossary (TCG) → Weakness]].''
When a move is '''super effective''' (Japanese: '''{{tt|効果はバツグン|こうかはばつぐん}}''' ''super effective''), it inflicts double the damage it would normally do. For example, a move like {{m|Megahorn}} used against a {{type|Psychic}} Pokémon will be super effective because {{type|Bug}} moves are super effective against Psychic types. This effect can stack up; for example, a Pokémon that is {{t|Rock}}/{{type|Ground}} and is hit by a {{type|Water}} move like {{m|Surf}} will be damaged four times as much by the move as a {{type|Normal}} Pokémon would be, because both Rock and Ground Pokémon are weak to Water moves.

In [[Pokémon GO]], super effective moves deal only 1.25x the damage, instead of 2x.

====Not very effective====
:''"Resistance" redirects here. For the TCG mechanic, see [[Appendix:Glossary (TCG)#Resistance|Appendix:Glossary (TCG) → Resistance]].''
When a move is '''not very effective''' (Japanese: '''{{tt|効果は今一つ|こうかはいまひとつ}}''' ''not very effective''), it deals half of the damage it would normally do and the target is considered "resistant" to attacks of that type. This works exactly like super effective moves, and can stack up. For example, a {{t|Steel}}/{{type|Rock}} Pokémon will be damaged by a quarter of the amount by a {{type|Normal}} move. Likewise, a {{t|Normal}}/{{type|Flying}} Pokémon hit by a {{type|Fighting}} move will be damaged normally, as Normal's weakness to Fighting is canceled out by Flying's resistance to it.

In [[Pokémon GO]], not very effective moves deal 0.8x damage, instead of 0.5x.

====Not effective====
When a move is '''not effective''' (Japanese: '''{{tt|効果がない|こうかがない}}''' ''not effective''), it does not damage the Pokémon at all and that Pokémon is "immune" to all attacks of that type; the move will yield a message of "It doesn't affect ''<Pokémon>''..." Certain types are also immune to specific [[status move]]s, such as {{type|Ground}} Pokémon being immune to the {{type|Electric}} {{m|Thunder Wave}}, or {{type|Grass}} Pokémon being immune to {{m|Leech Seed}} as well as {{cat|powder and spore moves}}.

In [[Pokémon GO]], not effective moves are treated as if they are not very effective. As an example, a {{type|Ground}} move can hit a {{type|Flying}} Pokémon, only at 0.8x damage.

===Example===
Imagine a [[level]] 75 {{p|Glaceon}} that does not suffer a {{status|burn}} and holds no [[item]] with an effective Attack stat of 123 uses {{m|Ice Fang}} (an {{type|Ice}} [[physical move]] with a [[power]] of 65) against a {{p|Garchomp}} with an effective Defense stat of 163 in [[Generation VI]], and does not land a [[critical hit]]. Then, the move will receive {{STAB}}, because Glaceon's Ice type matches the move's: ''STAB'' = 1.5. Additionally, Garchomp is {{t|Dragon}}/{{t|Ground}}, and therefore has a double weakness to the move's ice type: ''Type'' = 4. All other (non-random) factors of ''Modifier'' will be 1. This effectively gives

:[[File:ModifierCalcExample.png|x18px]]

When also plugging in Glaceon's effective Attacks stat and Garchomp's effective Defense stat, the whole damage formula gives

:[[File:DamageCalcExample1.png|x54px]]

That means Ice Fang will do between 168 and 198 HP damage, depending on luck.

If the same Glaceon holds a {{DL|In-battle effect item|Muscle Band}} and its Ice Fang lands a [[critical hit]] against Garchomp, it will be ''Critical'' = 1.5, effectively giving

:[[File:ModifierCalcExample2.png|x18px]]

Furthermore, Ice Fang's effective power will be boosted by the Muscle Band by (approximately) 10% to become 71, leading the whole formula to give

:[[File:DamageCalcExample3.png|x54px]]

That means Ice Fang will now do between 268 and 324 HP damage, depending on luck.

==Trivia==
* The highest potential damage dealt in a single attack can be achieved by {{p|Shuckle}} using {{m|Ice Ball}}.
* In [[Pokémon Battle Revolution]], the HP bar will change with a different animation depending on the move's type (recovery, recoil damage and indirect damage use the Normal-type animation), as shown below.
{| class="expandable"
|
|-
|
{| style="margin:auto; text-align:center; background: #{{physical color light}}; {{roundy|10px}}; border: 2px solid #{{physical color dark}}" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="3"
|-
| style="background: #FFF; {{roundytl|10px}}"| [[File:PBR HP change Normal.png|256px]]
| style="background: #FFF| [[File:PBR HP change Fighting.png|256px]]
| style="background: #FFF| [[File:PBR HP change Flying.png|256px]]
| style="background: #FFF; {{roundytr|10px}}"| [[File:PBR HP change Poison.png|256px]]
|-
! style="background: #{{physical color}}" | {{color|FFF|Normal}}
! style="background: #{{physical color}}" | {{color|FFF|Fighting}}
! style="background: #{{physical color}}" | {{color|FFF|Flying}}
! style="background: #{{physical color}}" | {{color|FFF|Poison}}
|-
| style="background: #FFF| [[File:PBR HP change Ground.png|256px]]
| style="background: #FFF| [[File:PBR HP change Rock.png|256px]]
| style="background: #FFF| [[File:PBR HP change Bug.png|256px]]
| style="background: #FFF| [[File:PBR HP change Ghost.png|256px]]
|-
! style="background: #{{physical color}}" | {{color|FFF|Ground}}
! style="background: #{{physical color}}" | {{color|FFF|Rock}}
! style="background: #{{physical color}}" | {{color|FFF|Bug}}
! style="background: #{{physical color}}" | {{color|FFF|Ghost}}
|-
| style="background: #FFF| [[File:PBR HP change Steel.png|256px]]
| style="background: #FFF| [[File:PBR HP change Fire.png|256px]]
| style="background: #FFF| [[File:PBR HP change Water.png|256px]]
| style="background: #FFF| [[File:PBR HP change Grass.png|256px]]
|-
! style="background: #{{physical color}}" | {{color|FFF|Steel}}
! style="background: #{{physical color}}" | {{color|FFF|Fire}}
! style="background: #{{physical color}}" | {{color|FFF|Water}}
! style="background: #{{physical color}}" | {{color|FFF|Grass}}
|-
| style="background: #FFF| [[File:PBR HP change Electric.png|256px]]
| style="background: #FFF| [[File:PBR HP change Psychic.png|256px]]
| style="background: #FFF| [[File:PBR HP change Ice.png|256px]]
| style="background: #FFF| [[File:PBR HP change Dragon.png|256px]]
|-
! style="background: #{{physical color}}" | {{color|FFF|Electric}}
! style="background: #{{physical color}}" | {{color|FFF|Psychic}}
! style="background: #{{physical color}}" | {{color|FFF|Ice}}
! style="background: #{{physical color}}" | {{color|FFF|Dragon}}
|-
| style="background: #FFF| [[File:PBR HP change Dark.png|256px]]
|-
! style="background: #{{physical color}}; {{roundybl|10px}}" | {{color|FFF|Dark}}
! style="background: #{{physical color light}}; {{roundybr|10px}}" rowspan="3" |
|}
|}

==In other languages==
{{langtable|color={{physical color}}|bordercolor={{physical color light}}
|zh_yue=傷害 / 伤害 ''{{tt|Shānghài|Damage}}''
|cs=Poškození
|da=Skade
|fi=Vahinko
|fr_ca=Tort{{tt|*|Blue Rescue Team manual}}
|fr_eu=Dégâts
|de=Schaden
|hu=Sebzés
|it=Danno
|ko=데미지 ''Damage''
|no=Skade
|pt_br=Dano
|es=Daño
|sv=Skada
}}

==External links==
* [http://www.smogon.com/bw/articles/bw_complete_damage_formula The Complete Damage Formula for Black & White (Smogon University)]

==References==
<references />

{{Project Games notice|game mechanic}}
[[Category:Game mechanics]]

[[de:Schaden]]
[[it:Danno]]
[[zh:伤害]]

Talk:Damage

2017-02-28T16:24:40Z

Felthry: /* Regarding stacking "other" effects (attn: Nescientist) */ Oops.

Does the Damage formula below account for critical hits? I don't see any area in it which does, would it be worth noting it?

[[User:Nothinhappened|Nothinhappened]] 22:03, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
:It's noted in the damage modification section. A CH does 2x damage, after the formula has been applied. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 01:40, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

== held Item? ==

It isn't that clear the part that says that some held Items and Berries increase the damage inflicted in other Pokémon! I did understand the formula at the bottom of the page, but there isn't any clear explanation about it. Would someone, please? Exactly where/when would the "extra 20%" bonus of NeverMeltIce apply? [[User:YukitoOoO|YukitoOoO]] 22:09, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

== Move the formula to Modification? ==

It seems like a good thing to do, because a lot of the stuff here is repeated anyway, and most of what affects the formulas is in the Modification section anyway. [[User:Ztobor|Ztobor]] 03:55, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

== Mild contridiction in a very specific criteria ==

--[[User:Noltron200|Noltron200]] 17:28, 6 August 2010 (UTC)Noltron200

In this page, it says this
''"Critical is 2 for a critical hit, 1 otherwise. For Pokémon with Sniper, it is 3 for a critical hit. "''
in the series of bullet notes.

In the description of Sniper, in the Sniper(ability) page, it says this''
"Sniper multiplies the base power of an attack 1.5× during a critical hit. "''

Becuase the damage equation goes " '''...×base + 2)×Modifier''' ", the first source would multiply the +2 by two, meanwhile the second source would not, becuase it multiplies the move's base attack, and than is added by two.

Merely 2 points difference, but its something to consider.

== Double/Triple Battle? ==

In the other section of the formula, it states "other counts for things like held items, Abilities, field advantages, and whether the battle is a Double Battle or Triple Battle or not." What effect does being a double or triple battle have on damage? I understand targeting differences, but not damage. Can someone help me with this? ([[User:Arcalargo|Arcalargo]] ([[User talk:Arcalargo|talk]]) 15:30, 7 December 2014 (UTC))
:Some moves, such as {{m|Flame Burst}}, which affect non-targeted Pokémon with indirect damage. There are also abilities such as {{a|Friend Guard}} that affect damage taken by allies. While it's not the double or triple battle itself that has any effect on damage, there are factors that only apply outside of single battles. --[[User:GuyPerfect|GuyPerfect]] ([[User talk:GuyPerfect|talk]]) 15:39, 7 December 2014 (UTC)
::So to confirm, there isn't really anything about the double or triple battle itself. Its just abilities(which are already listed) that effect damage, correct? {{unsigned|Arcalargo}}
:::I would imagine the damage part refers to the [[Double Battle#Effects on moves|damage penalty]] that moves like Surf incur. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 18:32, 7 December 2014 (UTC)
::::Derp, I missed that when I was reviewing damage, thank you([[User:Arcalargo|Arcalargo]] ([[User talk:Arcalargo|talk]]) 18:34, 7 December 2014 (UTC))

== Zero damage? ==

Umm, well I was reading a bit about the damage formula and at some point the zero damage got my curiosity, since it was done in a Black/White version I wanted to try it on a X/Y version.

I tried this with a Lv 100 Steelix with 469 Defense, aditionally it has Reflect and x6 boost on Defense, againts a Zigzagoon Lv 2.

I didn't made the formula, knowing the advantage of type (Which make 0,50), Reflect and the Defense boost it SHOULD hit zero.

In the video I've seen a Lv 100 Celebi which can have a max of 328 plus a reflect and nothing more, so the max Defense it can have is of 492 (Adding the 50% of the Reflect), got hitted by Tackle from a Lv 4 Lillipup, I expect the Lillipup Attack would be around 5~9

Knowing that the set I used was obviously better I made the formula for this one, I don't know if I've done the formula correctly (If someone can help me, I'd be pleased), so here it go:

( 2 * 4 + 10 ) / 250 = 0,072, that's the first value.

5~9 / 492 = 0,010162602~0,018292683, that's the second value (Note it's 492 and not 328 because I'm adding the effect of Reflect, which is a 50% plus to 328).

All together it should be something like:

0,072 * 0,010162602~0,018292683 * 50 + 2 = 2,036585367~2,065853659

Then adding the multiplier of Modifier:

1,5 * 1 * 1 * 1 * 0,85~1 = 1,275~1,5

With the first result:

2,036585367~2,065853659 * 1,275~1,5 = 2,596646343~3,098780488

Celebi should receive at least 2 or 3 of damage if it rounded down.

So here's my questions:

1. Did I do something wrong in the formula?

2. Maybe it is only possible on Gen V and prior to it?

3. If the last Question is no, why my Steelix keep getting 1 damage?

4. It's some kind of joke or something? >____>

Yeah, I was really bored to do all this instead of my math HW >.>

[[User:MilesPikachu|MilesPikachu]] ([[User talk:MilesPikachu|talk]]) 18:47, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

== Is 'Base damage' just Power? ==

The [[Damage modification#Damage formula|Damage formula]] section keeps referring to the 'Base damage' of the attack, but it doesn't explain what this is. Based on [https://www.math.miami.edu/~jam/azure/compendium/battdam.htm this site], it seems like 'Base damage' is actually Power. If so, obviously it should be changed to say Power, but if not, there should be an explanation of what 'Base damage' is.

[[User:RolandRock|RolandRock]] ([[User talk:RolandRock|talk]]) 00:35, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

Some people use the phrase "base damage" to mean the damage before the modifier is applied. [[User:Stats1989|Stats1989]] ([[User talk:Stats1989|talk]]) 01:39, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

== Attacks that hit multiple times? ==

How would attacks like {{m|Triple Kick}} or {{m|Bullet Seed}} that hit more than once effect the damage formula? --[[User:Rwars|Rwars]] ([[User talk:Rwars|talk]]) 15:58, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

:They do not change the formula, each hit has its own critical hit chance/damage. There is a separate check before the critical check to see how many hits occur, but no modification to the damage formula itself. The odd one out in this case though is {{m|Triple Kick}} as its power increases with each hit, so the move's power part of the formula changes with each hit. ([[User:Arcalargo|Arcalargo]] ([[User talk:Arcalargo|talk]]) 16:05, 31 March 2016 (UTC))

== Damage Rounding ==

According to dragonflycave's page on battle mechanics, not counting machine rounding to the nearest 4096th, there are three times when damage is rounded down to the nearest integer before the final result is rounded down a fourth time. [This is based on the formula: damage = ((2*L/5 + 2)*A*P/D)/50 + 2) * multiplier, which is equivalent to the one we have now except for rounding.] One is after calculating (2*level/5 + 2), one is after multiplying this result by the attacker's offensive stat and the base power and dividing by defender's defensive stat, and one is after dividing this result by 50. Three things stand out about this process: First, that rounding down after multiplying level by 2/5 and adding a constant has the same effect as rounding level down to the nearest number that is either a multiple of 5 or two less than a multiple of 5. That is, the thresholds for when this will be rounded to a higher integer are at levels 3, 5, 8, 10, 13, 15, 18, 20, 23, 25, 28, 30, 33, 35, 38, 40 etc. Second, that the second rounding doesn't matter. If you round down to the nearest integer, then divide by 50 and round down to the nearest integer again, the result should be the same as if you just divided by 50 and rounded down after dividing by 50. And third, that the third rounding would have the same effect if it was performed at any time after dividing by 50 and before applying the modifier, since the rest is just adding constants. Thus, these three roundings appear to be able to be summarized as follows: level is rounded down to the nearest integer that ends in a 0, 3, 5, or 8, and base damage is rounded down before the modifier is applied. I am not taking into account the exact form in which the machine stores numbers, which is much more accurate in most cases than rounding to the nearest integer. [[User:Stats1989|Stats1989]] ([[User talk:Stats1989|talk]]) 01:39, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
:Well, yes, somehow. "Rounding down" after each division is just a way how Dragonflycave tries to express/explain that any division is actually a [[wp:Rounding#Rounding_to_integer|truncated integer division]] (rounding towards zero, cutting off any decimals) by the machine. (The statement about the level threshold is true.) The second "rounding" does matter, though, and you basically said it: ''...as if you just divided by 50 and rounded down (...)'' (notice how you still need to actually "round down"). If I understand your third statement correctly, it is also not true: Suppose you have a value of <code>3.61</code> and want to multiply it by <code>2</code>. It you first round down, then multiply, you will get <code>6</code>, whereas if you first multiply, then round down, you will get <code>7</code>.
:(Also, if you haven't, please take a look at what I wrote at [[User talk:Stats1989|your talk page]].) [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 09:18, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
1. The second rounding is after multiplying the level multiplier by the stat effects and the base power of the move. The third rounding is after taking the result of the second rounding and dividing by 50. The second rounding would appear to not matter because if you take any number, round down, then divide by 50 and round down again, the result is the same as if you just divided by 50 and then rounded down. Rounding down twice in between calculating the level multiplier and applying the modifier (which is what happens with the second and third roundings) appears to be equivalent to rounding down once during this time. 2. If you re-read what I said, I said that applying the third rounding at any time after dividing by 50 '''but before applying the modifier''' is equivalent. In other words, rounding down before adding the +2 damage that is independent of stats is equivalent to rounding down after adding the +2 but before multiplying by type effectiveness etc. Obviously, you are correct that rounding after you multiply is different from rounding beforehand, but what I said is that it doesn't matter whether you round before or after adding the +2.

In summary, saying "round down once after calculating L*(2/5)+2, a second time after multiplying this result by A*P/D, and a third time after dividing this result by 50, then add 2 to the result, then multiply that result by multiplier" is equivalent to saying "round down once after calculating L*(2/5), then add 2 to the result, then multiply that result by A/D*P and add 2 to the result, then round down, then multiply by the multiplier." This is, in turn, equivalent to saying "Take floor of (L+5)*2/5, times (A/D)*P/50, round down, then add 2, then multiply the result by the multiplier." There are many ways to describe the formula and rounding (or at least the integer floor rounding, which is more important than the rounding to the nearest 4096th) accurately, so whichever is clearest and easiest to express visually is fine. I just think that we should either write the formula in a way that shows the integer flooring (or is consistent with the integer flooring), or mention it in the text. Unfortunately, at the moment we have a visual formula that doesn't show the rounding OR write it in a way that is consistent with how the rounding occurs, and the text doesn't mention the rounding either. If you look at how it is currently done in the Statistic page when discussing how a stat value is calculated in Gen I-II, the formula is written in a way that is inconsistent with the rounding (but consistent with how the formula for Gen III+ is written), but the value that is rounded by the game is still mentioned in the text. [[User:Stats1989|Stats1989]] ([[User talk:Stats1989|talk]]) 13:43, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
:I guess some of your statements are still imprecise (or rather badly worded), but let's just say we apparently all agree (and are dissatisfied) that the current state of the article is missing all rounding issues. That's why we (and I in particular) invested quite a lot of time trying to improve it (as can be seen from your talk page). So please be a little patient. (And from what I can tell by looking at it rather briefly, the stats page seems to be consistent with having integer division visualized/rewritten as division+flooring.) [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 17:07, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

== Minimum 2 damage? ==

In the above discussions many people talked about rounding, but looking over the formula, I can see some very simple cases in which, no matter how I round, I always get minimum damage values greater than 1. For example, any STAB attack that hits with neutral effectiveness should should always hit with at least 2 damage, even if it was a level 1 Rattata using Tackle on a level 100 Avalugg. No amount of rounding can reduce the first half of the equation (factoring in level, stats, and base power) below 2, thanks to the +2 at the end, so if remaining modifiers increase the random value above 1, the damage shouldn't be able to go below 2 (which should be guaranteed with the 1.5x STAB multiplier). And yet, testing this theory in-game, I have easily found low-level Pokemon that can't do more than 1 damage with neutrally-effective STAB moves. The only explanation I can think of is if they apply the random value and floor before any other multipliers, but even then it should be very possible to get guaranteed 2+ damage from other multipliers, such as hitting with a 2x SE attack. Extrapolating from this, enough multipliers (let's say STAB, Choice Band/Specs boost, Terrain boost, and 4x effectiveness) should be able to raise the minimum damage well over 10, regardless of the actual attack power, stats, or level difference. Is there some explanation for my initial STAB question, and/or confirmation of such high minimum damages? --[[User:MASLEGOMAN|MASLEGOMAN]] ([[User talk:MASLEGOMAN|talk]]) 16:09, 12 December 2016 (UTC)
:That's because this page doesn't use the actual formula with all the right placed to round. That's one of the reasons I made [[User:Nescientist/Damage]], where everything should be in correct order (at least after Gen III, I think) and rounding issues are mentioned (at least) in prose. The random multiplier seems to precede STAB (explains your problem); Choice items' boosts boost "Attack" or "Special Attack", and Terrains boost "Power" (that's all inside the +2 thing). In both official and Bulbapedia wording (hopefully), if something is said to boost ''a stat'', then those really boost the stat within the formula; only if it says it boosts ''damage'', there's something within the formula. Hope that helps! [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 17:35, 12 December 2016 (UTC)
::Confirming that the random multiplier happens first does help, yes. I just wish the exact order was laid out on paper somewhere. Does this mean that each multiplier gets multiplied in and truncated individually? If so, then that would mean that, if the damage is reduced to 1, a series of 1.5 multipliers would effectively be ignored, depending on if they came before bigger multipliers or not. For example, if damage hits 1 and then STAB, Terrain, and Choice Band/Specs are applied, it would be floor(floor(floor(1 x 1.5) x 1.5) x 1.5) = 1. But if damage hit 1 and a super-effective multiplier of 2 (or 4) was applied FIRST, each of the other multipliers would increase the value: floor(floor(floor(floor(1 x 4) x 1.5) x 1.5) x 1.5) = 13. It would be even higher if the random value got applied later or last, and the initial damage started at 2. Thus we can get a guaranteed, level/stat/BP-irrelevant final damage of anything from 1 to 13+ depending entirely on the order in which the game factors in multipliers, so it seems a little important to clarify said order. --[[User:MASLEGOMAN|MASLEGOMAN]] ([[User talk:MASLEGOMAN|talk]]) 20:49, 12 December 2016 (UTC)
:::''During the calculation, any operations are carried out on integers internally, such that effectively each division is a [[wp:Rounding#Rounding_to_integer|truncated integer division]] (rounding towards zero, cutting off any decimals), and any decimals are also cut off after each multiplication operation.''
:::The order on the user page should be accurate. But again, Choice items are already used to create the Attack ("A") value, and terrains for "Power", those are not incorporated outside anything. I don't think <whatever>-independent minimum damage is really worth calculating, because the rest is just as much part of calculation. But you're of course right, order matters, and that's one of the benefits of the aforementioned userpage. (It's not exactly paper, so if you insist on that, feel free to write it down yourself. :P) [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 22:25, 12 December 2016 (UTC)
::::Ok, so, to clarify, the order is: Weather -> Critical -> random -> STAB -> Type -> Burn -> other ? This would explain getting only 1 damage off a STAB attack from a level 1 (with there being a 1/16 chance of 2 damage). But are you also now saying that Choice items and Terrain boosts affect the attack stat and BP directly? On Showdown it says that a 4x SE STAB attack from a level 1 on a level 100 (min atk, max def) with Choice and Terrain would still hit a minimum damage over 10, but if you take Choice/Terrain out of the multipliers, and factor in the STAB going away (because of the aforementioned random value being multiplied first), the minimum damage should really only be 4, from the 4x SE ((low vals + 2) x 85/100 x 3/2 x 4 minimizes to 4 with int division). Is Showdown's order off, then? To be incredibly specific, I did: Pichu, level 1, attack-reducing nature with 0 IVs/EVs (Atk = 4), Choice Band, Electric Terrain, using Nuzzle (20BP) on a level 100 Gyarados with a defense-increasing nature and max IVs/EVs (Def = 282), and the damage range was 12-16. If the Choice and Terrain are calculated as you say, then the calculation would be (using the Bulbapedia formula, since I don't really understand the bits like "\right" on the user page): ((2x1+10)/250 x (4x1.5)/282 x (20x1.5) + 2) x .85 x 1.5 x 4 = (12/250 x 6/282 x 30 + 2) x .85 x 1.5 x 4 = 2 x .85 x 1.5 x 4 = 1 x 1.5 x 4 = 1 x 4 = 4. Sooo... Something is off here. Either the Choice/Terrain multipliers DO need to be in the multipliers, or the order of the multipliers is off, or Showdown is wrong. One of the three. --[[User:MASLEGOMAN|MASLEGOMAN]] ([[User talk:MASLEGOMAN|talk]]) 15:46, 14 December 2016 (UTC)
:::::May I offer a fourth possibility: you used Showdown wrong...? I get
0- Atk Choice Band Pichu Nuzzle vs. 0 HP / 252+ Def Gyarados: 4-12 (1.2 - 3.6%) -- possibly the worst move ever
(4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 12)
:::::Showdown also has a [https://github.com/Zarel/Pokemon-Showdown GitHub repository], and I just checked, they agree on what I told you about Choice items and terrains. You can check on whether they agree on the exact order, if you'd like, but I believe they agree on that as well. For that messy code on the userpage: it's currently TeX code, and not yet converted to an image and then uploaded; but you can just paste it [http://www.codecogs.com/eqnedit.php here] to read it, for example.
:::::Anyway, it all comes down to: If you ever happen to encounter a max Def level 100 Gyarados, there may be better ideas than to equip a Choice Band to your level 1 Pichu in order to Nuzzle it down. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 18:30, 14 December 2016 (UTC)
::::::Nope, you actually used Showdown wrong. Showdown clearly has a glitch where it doesn't update properly with every change (namely with Electric Terrain). If you set everything, then hit Electric Terrain, it gets the 4-12 damage you got. Then if you change something else, like altering a stat or changing from singles to doubles and back, it refreshes and says this:
0- Atk Choice Band Pichu Nuzzle vs. 0 HP / 252+ Def Gyarados: 12-16 (3.6 - 4.8%) -- possibly the worst move ever
(12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 16)
::::::In fact, I actually forgot the Choice Band the first time I did this, and it still got 12-16, so I guess that proves that you were right about the Choice Band multiplier (at least in Showdown's logic). But the Electric Terrain Multiplier definitely isn't applied to BP or the attack stat. So with this new info in mind, it looks like Electric Terrain is being applied (in Showdown) BEFORE the random value, like so (with the initial damage of 2): 2 x 1.5 (terrain) x .85 (rand) x 1.5 (STAB) x 4 (SE) = 3 x .85 x 1.5 x 4 = 2 x 1.5 x 4 = 3 x 4 = 12. This would explain the jump in damage from 4 (without field) to 12 (with field), since without the field the random value would essentially negate the STAB bonus. So Showdown's order differs from yours, it seems. --[[User:MASLEGOMAN|MASLEGOMAN]] ([[User talk:MASLEGOMAN|talk]]) 22:34, 14 December 2016 (UTC)
:::::::I thought it didn't change because nothing had changed. It's interesting, though, because Showdown's damage calculator really does have an additional factor in between ''Weather'' and ''Critical'' (see [https://github.com/Zarel/honko-damagecalc/blob/master/js/damage.js here], line 518), whereas Showdown's battle engine powers up the base power (see [https://github.com/Zarel/Pokemon-Showdown/blob/master/data/moves.js here], line 4198). And that matches what the userpage and Bulbapedia have, and also that the [http://www.pokemon-sunmoon.com/en-us/pokemon/tapu-koko/ this official website] says Electric Terrain is "raising the '''power''' of any Electric-type moves" (and not damage dealt by them). Until proven otherwise, we just have to treat the official website more reliable than Showdown's damage calculator (especially when it's even contradicting their own battle engine). [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 23:55, 14 December 2016 (UTC)
::::::::Ok, I did the experiment in the actual games. I had my friend use a level 1 Pichu (SpA 6, holding Choice Specs) use Thunder Shock (BP 40) on my level 50 Minior (SpD 120) and level 63 Wishiwashi (SpD 182). In both cases I got 2 damage per attack, with and without Electric Terrain out. When the same was tried on my level 32 Pelipper (SpD 53; admittedly not great but all I had on-hand), it consistently took 4 damage, regardless of terrain. So Showdown's calculator is wrong! The Pelipper calculation, entered into the calculator with the exact stats, items, and terrain, is quoted at 12-16 damage (the calculator doesn't actually have Thunder Shock, so I used Charge Beam, which is only 10 power higher, but it shouldn't matter, seeing as everything from Nuzzle to Volt Tackle yields the same results). When removing terrain, the calculator's prediction drops down to 4, which says to me that it doesn't know what order to calculate terrain in. I know at high levels this probably won't matter too much, but this might still be wiggling the end results a few HP higher than you'd truly see in the game, so it may be worth them looking into. --[[User:MASLEGOMAN|MASLEGOMAN]] ([[User talk:MASLEGOMAN|talk]]) 06:25, 16 December 2016 (UTC)
:::::::::Thanks for testing. That's actually a neat way to find out whether something "affects damage" or "affects power" (although moderately hard to execute). I'm personally always interested in any explicit confirmation on which it is (for anything, especially on whatever wasn't there back in Gen V).
:::::::::FYI, you can just manually adjust the power of any move within that calculator, so you can have a Thunderbolt with BP 40 or whatever you like. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 11:14, 17 December 2016 (UTC)

== Regarding stacking "other" effects (attn: Nescientist) ==

On my talk page, while discussing this page before it was overhauled, [[User:Nescientist]] informed me of the exact formula used for applying multiple "other" effects in the damage calculation. A quote follows, for anyone else wanting to follow this conversation:
*FYI, the complex stuff is that those modifiers aren't really just decimals, but 16-bit integers that are then divided by 0x1000, and they are appended as M<nowiki>''</nowiki> = ((M * M') + 0x800) >> 12 (Quote from [[User:Nescientist]] taken from [[User talk:Felthry]])

I have done some analysis, and I am now reasonably certain that this is exactly multiplying the two numbers. Using sixteen-bit integers divided by 0x1000 is exactly equivalent to using Q3.12 fixed-point numbers to represent the data. This means that a value of 1 would be indicated as 0b0001 0000 0000 0000 (split into 4-bit blocks for readability), while 2 would be 0b0010 0000 0000 0000 and 1/2 would be 0b0000 1000 0000 0000. Multiplying these two numbers in the standard manner would be M<nowiki>''</nowiki> = (M * M') >> 12. This is true because each number is, in effect, X << 12, where X is the intended value; << 12 is equivalent to multiplying by 212, or 0x1000. Now, if each number is represented as X * 0x1000, this means that multiplying M * M' would be the same as multiplying (X * 0x1000) * (Y * 0x1000). Dividing by 0x1000, equivalent to a right shift by 12 bits (i.e. >> 12), makes this into (X * Y) * 0x1000, which is exactly (X * Y) in the Q3.12 format.

Now for the interesting bit. What they have with the 0x800 here is actually to make the end result round properly, as opposed to simply truncating it as the normal method would. This is equivalent to adding 1/8192 to your final result; this number is used because the resolution of a Q3.12 number is 1/4096. If the bit in position 0x800 (i.e. the 12th bit from the right) is 0, adding 0x800 will do nothing, and this extra bit will be truncated off, thus rounding down, when the right shift occurs. If this bit is 1, adding 0x800 would have the effect of rounding up, adding 1/4096 to the truncated value, as the addition would cause a carry into position 0x1000.

Thus, the formula M<nowiki>''</nowiki> = ((M * M') + 0x800) >> 12 is exactly the way to multiply two Q3.12 numbers or indeed any two Qn.12 numbers, while rounding in the conventional manner to be as accurate as possible.

Sorry for the impromptu lesson in fixed-point arithmetic; I wanted to prove this result rigorously so that we can be absolutely certain that it holds up! In fact, this also holds for 2's-complement signed fixed-point numbers, but I won't bother proving that as the "other" value is never negative. --[[User:Felthry|Felthry]] ([[User talk:Felthry|talk]]) 16:24, 28 February 2017 (UTC)

Talk:Damage

2017-02-28T16:24:16Z

Felthry: /* Regarding stacking "other" effects (attn: Nescientist) */ new section

Does the Damage formula below account for critical hits? I don't see any area in it which does, would it be worth noting it?

[[User:Nothinhappened|Nothinhappened]] 22:03, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
:It's noted in the damage modification section. A CH does 2x damage, after the formula has been applied. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 01:40, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

== held Item? ==

It isn't that clear the part that says that some held Items and Berries increase the damage inflicted in other Pokémon! I did understand the formula at the bottom of the page, but there isn't any clear explanation about it. Would someone, please? Exactly where/when would the "extra 20%" bonus of NeverMeltIce apply? [[User:YukitoOoO|YukitoOoO]] 22:09, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

== Move the formula to Modification? ==

It seems like a good thing to do, because a lot of the stuff here is repeated anyway, and most of what affects the formulas is in the Modification section anyway. [[User:Ztobor|Ztobor]] 03:55, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

== Mild contridiction in a very specific criteria ==

--[[User:Noltron200|Noltron200]] 17:28, 6 August 2010 (UTC)Noltron200

In this page, it says this
''"Critical is 2 for a critical hit, 1 otherwise. For Pokémon with Sniper, it is 3 for a critical hit. "''
in the series of bullet notes.

In the description of Sniper, in the Sniper(ability) page, it says this''
"Sniper multiplies the base power of an attack 1.5× during a critical hit. "''

Becuase the damage equation goes " '''...×base + 2)×Modifier''' ", the first source would multiply the +2 by two, meanwhile the second source would not, becuase it multiplies the move's base attack, and than is added by two.

Merely 2 points difference, but its something to consider.

== Double/Triple Battle? ==

In the other section of the formula, it states "other counts for things like held items, Abilities, field advantages, and whether the battle is a Double Battle or Triple Battle or not." What effect does being a double or triple battle have on damage? I understand targeting differences, but not damage. Can someone help me with this? ([[User:Arcalargo|Arcalargo]] ([[User talk:Arcalargo|talk]]) 15:30, 7 December 2014 (UTC))
:Some moves, such as {{m|Flame Burst}}, which affect non-targeted Pokémon with indirect damage. There are also abilities such as {{a|Friend Guard}} that affect damage taken by allies. While it's not the double or triple battle itself that has any effect on damage, there are factors that only apply outside of single battles. --[[User:GuyPerfect|GuyPerfect]] ([[User talk:GuyPerfect|talk]]) 15:39, 7 December 2014 (UTC)
::So to confirm, there isn't really anything about the double or triple battle itself. Its just abilities(which are already listed) that effect damage, correct? {{unsigned|Arcalargo}}
:::I would imagine the damage part refers to the [[Double Battle#Effects on moves|damage penalty]] that moves like Surf incur. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 18:32, 7 December 2014 (UTC)
::::Derp, I missed that when I was reviewing damage, thank you([[User:Arcalargo|Arcalargo]] ([[User talk:Arcalargo|talk]]) 18:34, 7 December 2014 (UTC))

== Zero damage? ==

Umm, well I was reading a bit about the damage formula and at some point the zero damage got my curiosity, since it was done in a Black/White version I wanted to try it on a X/Y version.

I tried this with a Lv 100 Steelix with 469 Defense, aditionally it has Reflect and x6 boost on Defense, againts a Zigzagoon Lv 2.

I didn't made the formula, knowing the advantage of type (Which make 0,50), Reflect and the Defense boost it SHOULD hit zero.

In the video I've seen a Lv 100 Celebi which can have a max of 328 plus a reflect and nothing more, so the max Defense it can have is of 492 (Adding the 50% of the Reflect), got hitted by Tackle from a Lv 4 Lillipup, I expect the Lillipup Attack would be around 5~9

Knowing that the set I used was obviously better I made the formula for this one, I don't know if I've done the formula correctly (If someone can help me, I'd be pleased), so here it go:

( 2 * 4 + 10 ) / 250 = 0,072, that's the first value.

5~9 / 492 = 0,010162602~0,018292683, that's the second value (Note it's 492 and not 328 because I'm adding the effect of Reflect, which is a 50% plus to 328).

All together it should be something like:

0,072 * 0,010162602~0,018292683 * 50 + 2 = 2,036585367~2,065853659

Then adding the multiplier of Modifier:

1,5 * 1 * 1 * 1 * 0,85~1 = 1,275~1,5

With the first result:

2,036585367~2,065853659 * 1,275~1,5 = 2,596646343~3,098780488

Celebi should receive at least 2 or 3 of damage if it rounded down.

So here's my questions:

1. Did I do something wrong in the formula?

2. Maybe it is only possible on Gen V and prior to it?

3. If the last Question is no, why my Steelix keep getting 1 damage?

4. It's some kind of joke or something? >____>

Yeah, I was really bored to do all this instead of my math HW >.>

[[User:MilesPikachu|MilesPikachu]] ([[User talk:MilesPikachu|talk]]) 18:47, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

== Is 'Base damage' just Power? ==

The [[Damage modification#Damage formula|Damage formula]] section keeps referring to the 'Base damage' of the attack, but it doesn't explain what this is. Based on [https://www.math.miami.edu/~jam/azure/compendium/battdam.htm this site], it seems like 'Base damage' is actually Power. If so, obviously it should be changed to say Power, but if not, there should be an explanation of what 'Base damage' is.

[[User:RolandRock|RolandRock]] ([[User talk:RolandRock|talk]]) 00:35, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

Some people use the phrase "base damage" to mean the damage before the modifier is applied. [[User:Stats1989|Stats1989]] ([[User talk:Stats1989|talk]]) 01:39, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

== Attacks that hit multiple times? ==

How would attacks like {{m|Triple Kick}} or {{m|Bullet Seed}} that hit more than once effect the damage formula? --[[User:Rwars|Rwars]] ([[User talk:Rwars|talk]]) 15:58, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

:They do not change the formula, each hit has its own critical hit chance/damage. There is a separate check before the critical check to see how many hits occur, but no modification to the damage formula itself. The odd one out in this case though is {{m|Triple Kick}} as its power increases with each hit, so the move's power part of the formula changes with each hit. ([[User:Arcalargo|Arcalargo]] ([[User talk:Arcalargo|talk]]) 16:05, 31 March 2016 (UTC))

== Damage Rounding ==

According to dragonflycave's page on battle mechanics, not counting machine rounding to the nearest 4096th, there are three times when damage is rounded down to the nearest integer before the final result is rounded down a fourth time. [This is based on the formula: damage = ((2*L/5 + 2)*A*P/D)/50 + 2) * multiplier, which is equivalent to the one we have now except for rounding.] One is after calculating (2*level/5 + 2), one is after multiplying this result by the attacker's offensive stat and the base power and dividing by defender's defensive stat, and one is after dividing this result by 50. Three things stand out about this process: First, that rounding down after multiplying level by 2/5 and adding a constant has the same effect as rounding level down to the nearest number that is either a multiple of 5 or two less than a multiple of 5. That is, the thresholds for when this will be rounded to a higher integer are at levels 3, 5, 8, 10, 13, 15, 18, 20, 23, 25, 28, 30, 33, 35, 38, 40 etc. Second, that the second rounding doesn't matter. If you round down to the nearest integer, then divide by 50 and round down to the nearest integer again, the result should be the same as if you just divided by 50 and rounded down after dividing by 50. And third, that the third rounding would have the same effect if it was performed at any time after dividing by 50 and before applying the modifier, since the rest is just adding constants. Thus, these three roundings appear to be able to be summarized as follows: level is rounded down to the nearest integer that ends in a 0, 3, 5, or 8, and base damage is rounded down before the modifier is applied. I am not taking into account the exact form in which the machine stores numbers, which is much more accurate in most cases than rounding to the nearest integer. [[User:Stats1989|Stats1989]] ([[User talk:Stats1989|talk]]) 01:39, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
:Well, yes, somehow. "Rounding down" after each division is just a way how Dragonflycave tries to express/explain that any division is actually a [[wp:Rounding#Rounding_to_integer|truncated integer division]] (rounding towards zero, cutting off any decimals) by the machine. (The statement about the level threshold is true.) The second "rounding" does matter, though, and you basically said it: ''...as if you just divided by 50 and rounded down (...)'' (notice how you still need to actually "round down"). If I understand your third statement correctly, it is also not true: Suppose you have a value of <code>3.61</code> and want to multiply it by <code>2</code>. It you first round down, then multiply, you will get <code>6</code>, whereas if you first multiply, then round down, you will get <code>7</code>.
:(Also, if you haven't, please take a look at what I wrote at [[User talk:Stats1989|your talk page]].) [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 09:18, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
1. The second rounding is after multiplying the level multiplier by the stat effects and the base power of the move. The third rounding is after taking the result of the second rounding and dividing by 50. The second rounding would appear to not matter because if you take any number, round down, then divide by 50 and round down again, the result is the same as if you just divided by 50 and then rounded down. Rounding down twice in between calculating the level multiplier and applying the modifier (which is what happens with the second and third roundings) appears to be equivalent to rounding down once during this time. 2. If you re-read what I said, I said that applying the third rounding at any time after dividing by 50 '''but before applying the modifier''' is equivalent. In other words, rounding down before adding the +2 damage that is independent of stats is equivalent to rounding down after adding the +2 but before multiplying by type effectiveness etc. Obviously, you are correct that rounding after you multiply is different from rounding beforehand, but what I said is that it doesn't matter whether you round before or after adding the +2.

In summary, saying "round down once after calculating L*(2/5)+2, a second time after multiplying this result by A*P/D, and a third time after dividing this result by 50, then add 2 to the result, then multiply that result by multiplier" is equivalent to saying "round down once after calculating L*(2/5), then add 2 to the result, then multiply that result by A/D*P and add 2 to the result, then round down, then multiply by the multiplier." This is, in turn, equivalent to saying "Take floor of (L+5)*2/5, times (A/D)*P/50, round down, then add 2, then multiply the result by the multiplier." There are many ways to describe the formula and rounding (or at least the integer floor rounding, which is more important than the rounding to the nearest 4096th) accurately, so whichever is clearest and easiest to express visually is fine. I just think that we should either write the formula in a way that shows the integer flooring (or is consistent with the integer flooring), or mention it in the text. Unfortunately, at the moment we have a visual formula that doesn't show the rounding OR write it in a way that is consistent with how the rounding occurs, and the text doesn't mention the rounding either. If you look at how it is currently done in the Statistic page when discussing how a stat value is calculated in Gen I-II, the formula is written in a way that is inconsistent with the rounding (but consistent with how the formula for Gen III+ is written), but the value that is rounded by the game is still mentioned in the text. [[User:Stats1989|Stats1989]] ([[User talk:Stats1989|talk]]) 13:43, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
:I guess some of your statements are still imprecise (or rather badly worded), but let's just say we apparently all agree (and are dissatisfied) that the current state of the article is missing all rounding issues. That's why we (and I in particular) invested quite a lot of time trying to improve it (as can be seen from your talk page). So please be a little patient. (And from what I can tell by looking at it rather briefly, the stats page seems to be consistent with having integer division visualized/rewritten as division+flooring.) [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 17:07, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

== Minimum 2 damage? ==

In the above discussions many people talked about rounding, but looking over the formula, I can see some very simple cases in which, no matter how I round, I always get minimum damage values greater than 1. For example, any STAB attack that hits with neutral effectiveness should should always hit with at least 2 damage, even if it was a level 1 Rattata using Tackle on a level 100 Avalugg. No amount of rounding can reduce the first half of the equation (factoring in level, stats, and base power) below 2, thanks to the +2 at the end, so if remaining modifiers increase the random value above 1, the damage shouldn't be able to go below 2 (which should be guaranteed with the 1.5x STAB multiplier). And yet, testing this theory in-game, I have easily found low-level Pokemon that can't do more than 1 damage with neutrally-effective STAB moves. The only explanation I can think of is if they apply the random value and floor before any other multipliers, but even then it should be very possible to get guaranteed 2+ damage from other multipliers, such as hitting with a 2x SE attack. Extrapolating from this, enough multipliers (let's say STAB, Choice Band/Specs boost, Terrain boost, and 4x effectiveness) should be able to raise the minimum damage well over 10, regardless of the actual attack power, stats, or level difference. Is there some explanation for my initial STAB question, and/or confirmation of such high minimum damages? --[[User:MASLEGOMAN|MASLEGOMAN]] ([[User talk:MASLEGOMAN|talk]]) 16:09, 12 December 2016 (UTC)
:That's because this page doesn't use the actual formula with all the right placed to round. That's one of the reasons I made [[User:Nescientist/Damage]], where everything should be in correct order (at least after Gen III, I think) and rounding issues are mentioned (at least) in prose. The random multiplier seems to precede STAB (explains your problem); Choice items' boosts boost "Attack" or "Special Attack", and Terrains boost "Power" (that's all inside the +2 thing). In both official and Bulbapedia wording (hopefully), if something is said to boost ''a stat'', then those really boost the stat within the formula; only if it says it boosts ''damage'', there's something within the formula. Hope that helps! [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 17:35, 12 December 2016 (UTC)
::Confirming that the random multiplier happens first does help, yes. I just wish the exact order was laid out on paper somewhere. Does this mean that each multiplier gets multiplied in and truncated individually? If so, then that would mean that, if the damage is reduced to 1, a series of 1.5 multipliers would effectively be ignored, depending on if they came before bigger multipliers or not. For example, if damage hits 1 and then STAB, Terrain, and Choice Band/Specs are applied, it would be floor(floor(floor(1 x 1.5) x 1.5) x 1.5) = 1. But if damage hit 1 and a super-effective multiplier of 2 (or 4) was applied FIRST, each of the other multipliers would increase the value: floor(floor(floor(floor(1 x 4) x 1.5) x 1.5) x 1.5) = 13. It would be even higher if the random value got applied later or last, and the initial damage started at 2. Thus we can get a guaranteed, level/stat/BP-irrelevant final damage of anything from 1 to 13+ depending entirely on the order in which the game factors in multipliers, so it seems a little important to clarify said order. --[[User:MASLEGOMAN|MASLEGOMAN]] ([[User talk:MASLEGOMAN|talk]]) 20:49, 12 December 2016 (UTC)
:::''During the calculation, any operations are carried out on integers internally, such that effectively each division is a [[wp:Rounding#Rounding_to_integer|truncated integer division]] (rounding towards zero, cutting off any decimals), and any decimals are also cut off after each multiplication operation.''
:::The order on the user page should be accurate. But again, Choice items are already used to create the Attack ("A") value, and terrains for "Power", those are not incorporated outside anything. I don't think <whatever>-independent minimum damage is really worth calculating, because the rest is just as much part of calculation. But you're of course right, order matters, and that's one of the benefits of the aforementioned userpage. (It's not exactly paper, so if you insist on that, feel free to write it down yourself. :P) [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 22:25, 12 December 2016 (UTC)
::::Ok, so, to clarify, the order is: Weather -> Critical -> random -> STAB -> Type -> Burn -> other ? This would explain getting only 1 damage off a STAB attack from a level 1 (with there being a 1/16 chance of 2 damage). But are you also now saying that Choice items and Terrain boosts affect the attack stat and BP directly? On Showdown it says that a 4x SE STAB attack from a level 1 on a level 100 (min atk, max def) with Choice and Terrain would still hit a minimum damage over 10, but if you take Choice/Terrain out of the multipliers, and factor in the STAB going away (because of the aforementioned random value being multiplied first), the minimum damage should really only be 4, from the 4x SE ((low vals + 2) x 85/100 x 3/2 x 4 minimizes to 4 with int division). Is Showdown's order off, then? To be incredibly specific, I did: Pichu, level 1, attack-reducing nature with 0 IVs/EVs (Atk = 4), Choice Band, Electric Terrain, using Nuzzle (20BP) on a level 100 Gyarados with a defense-increasing nature and max IVs/EVs (Def = 282), and the damage range was 12-16. If the Choice and Terrain are calculated as you say, then the calculation would be (using the Bulbapedia formula, since I don't really understand the bits like "\right" on the user page): ((2x1+10)/250 x (4x1.5)/282 x (20x1.5) + 2) x .85 x 1.5 x 4 = (12/250 x 6/282 x 30 + 2) x .85 x 1.5 x 4 = 2 x .85 x 1.5 x 4 = 1 x 1.5 x 4 = 1 x 4 = 4. Sooo... Something is off here. Either the Choice/Terrain multipliers DO need to be in the multipliers, or the order of the multipliers is off, or Showdown is wrong. One of the three. --[[User:MASLEGOMAN|MASLEGOMAN]] ([[User talk:MASLEGOMAN|talk]]) 15:46, 14 December 2016 (UTC)
:::::May I offer a fourth possibility: you used Showdown wrong...? I get
0- Atk Choice Band Pichu Nuzzle vs. 0 HP / 252+ Def Gyarados: 4-12 (1.2 - 3.6%) -- possibly the worst move ever
(4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 12)
:::::Showdown also has a [https://github.com/Zarel/Pokemon-Showdown GitHub repository], and I just checked, they agree on what I told you about Choice items and terrains. You can check on whether they agree on the exact order, if you'd like, but I believe they agree on that as well. For that messy code on the userpage: it's currently TeX code, and not yet converted to an image and then uploaded; but you can just paste it [http://www.codecogs.com/eqnedit.php here] to read it, for example.
:::::Anyway, it all comes down to: If you ever happen to encounter a max Def level 100 Gyarados, there may be better ideas than to equip a Choice Band to your level 1 Pichu in order to Nuzzle it down. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 18:30, 14 December 2016 (UTC)
::::::Nope, you actually used Showdown wrong. Showdown clearly has a glitch where it doesn't update properly with every change (namely with Electric Terrain). If you set everything, then hit Electric Terrain, it gets the 4-12 damage you got. Then if you change something else, like altering a stat or changing from singles to doubles and back, it refreshes and says this:
0- Atk Choice Band Pichu Nuzzle vs. 0 HP / 252+ Def Gyarados: 12-16 (3.6 - 4.8%) -- possibly the worst move ever
(12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 16)
::::::In fact, I actually forgot the Choice Band the first time I did this, and it still got 12-16, so I guess that proves that you were right about the Choice Band multiplier (at least in Showdown's logic). But the Electric Terrain Multiplier definitely isn't applied to BP or the attack stat. So with this new info in mind, it looks like Electric Terrain is being applied (in Showdown) BEFORE the random value, like so (with the initial damage of 2): 2 x 1.5 (terrain) x .85 (rand) x 1.5 (STAB) x 4 (SE) = 3 x .85 x 1.5 x 4 = 2 x 1.5 x 4 = 3 x 4 = 12. This would explain the jump in damage from 4 (without field) to 12 (with field), since without the field the random value would essentially negate the STAB bonus. So Showdown's order differs from yours, it seems. --[[User:MASLEGOMAN|MASLEGOMAN]] ([[User talk:MASLEGOMAN|talk]]) 22:34, 14 December 2016 (UTC)
:::::::I thought it didn't change because nothing had changed. It's interesting, though, because Showdown's damage calculator really does have an additional factor in between ''Weather'' and ''Critical'' (see [https://github.com/Zarel/honko-damagecalc/blob/master/js/damage.js here], line 518), whereas Showdown's battle engine powers up the base power (see [https://github.com/Zarel/Pokemon-Showdown/blob/master/data/moves.js here], line 4198). And that matches what the userpage and Bulbapedia have, and also that the [http://www.pokemon-sunmoon.com/en-us/pokemon/tapu-koko/ this official website] says Electric Terrain is "raising the '''power''' of any Electric-type moves" (and not damage dealt by them). Until proven otherwise, we just have to treat the official website more reliable than Showdown's damage calculator (especially when it's even contradicting their own battle engine). [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 23:55, 14 December 2016 (UTC)
::::::::Ok, I did the experiment in the actual games. I had my friend use a level 1 Pichu (SpA 6, holding Choice Specs) use Thunder Shock (BP 40) on my level 50 Minior (SpD 120) and level 63 Wishiwashi (SpD 182). In both cases I got 2 damage per attack, with and without Electric Terrain out. When the same was tried on my level 32 Pelipper (SpD 53; admittedly not great but all I had on-hand), it consistently took 4 damage, regardless of terrain. So Showdown's calculator is wrong! The Pelipper calculation, entered into the calculator with the exact stats, items, and terrain, is quoted at 12-16 damage (the calculator doesn't actually have Thunder Shock, so I used Charge Beam, which is only 10 power higher, but it shouldn't matter, seeing as everything from Nuzzle to Volt Tackle yields the same results). When removing terrain, the calculator's prediction drops down to 4, which says to me that it doesn't know what order to calculate terrain in. I know at high levels this probably won't matter too much, but this might still be wiggling the end results a few HP higher than you'd truly see in the game, so it may be worth them looking into. --[[User:MASLEGOMAN|MASLEGOMAN]] ([[User talk:MASLEGOMAN|talk]]) 06:25, 16 December 2016 (UTC)
:::::::::Thanks for testing. That's actually a neat way to find out whether something "affects damage" or "affects power" (although moderately hard to execute). I'm personally always interested in any explicit confirmation on which it is (for anything, especially on whatever wasn't there back in Gen V).
:::::::::FYI, you can just manually adjust the power of any move within that calculator, so you can have a Thunderbolt with BP 40 or whatever you like. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 11:14, 17 December 2016 (UTC)

== Regarding stacking "other" effects (attn: Nescientist) ==

On my talk page, while discussing this page before it was overhauled, [[User:Nescientist]] informed me of the exact formula used for applying multiple "other" effects in the damage calculation. A quote follows, for anyone else wanting to follow this conversation:
*FYI, the complex stuff is that those modifiers aren't really just decimals, but 16-bit integers that are then divided by 0x1000, and they are appended as M<nowiki>''</nowiki> = ((M * M') + 0x800) >> 12 (Quote from [[User:Nescientist]] taken from [[User talk:Felthry]])

I have done some analysis, and I am now reasonably certain that this is exactly multiplying the two numbers. Using sixteen-bit integers divided by 0x1000 is exactly equivalent to using Q3.12 fixed-point numbers to represent the data. This means that a value of 1 would be indicated as 0b0001 0000 0000 0000 (split into 4-bit blocks for readability), while 2 would be 0b0010 0000 0000 0000 and 1/2 would be 0b0000 1000 0000 0000. Multiplying these two numbers in the standard manner would be M<nowiki>''</nowiki> = (M * M') >> 12. This is true because each number is, in effect, X << 12, where X is the intended value; << 12 is equivalent to multiplying by 212, or 0x1000. Now, if each number is represented as X * 0x1000, this means that multiplying M * M' would be the same as multiplying (X * 0x1000) * (Y * 0x1000). Dividing by 0x1000, equivalent to a right shift by 12 bits (i.e. >> 12), makes this into (X * Y) * 0x1000, which is exactly (X * Y) in the Q3.12 format.

Now for the interesting bit. What they have with the 0x800 here is actually to make the end result round properly, as opposed to simply truncating it as the normal method would. This is equivalent to adding 1/8192 to your final result; this number is used because the resolution of a Q3.12 number is 1/4096. If the bit in position 0x800 (i.e. the 12th bit from the right) is 0, adding 0x800 will do nothing, and this extra bit will be truncated off, thus rounding down, when the right shift occurs. If this bit is 1, adding 0x800 would have the effect of rounding up, adding 1/4096 to the truncated value, as the addition would cause a carry into position 0x1000.

Thus, the formula M<nowiki>'' = ((M * M') + 0x800) >> 12 is exactly the way to multiply two Q3.12 numbers or indeed any two Qn.12 numbers, while rounding in the conventional manner to be as accurate as possible.

Sorry for the impromptu lesson in fixed-point arithmetic; I wanted to prove this result rigorously so that we can be absolutely certain that it holds up! In fact, this also holds for 2's-complement signed fixed-point numbers, but I won't bother proving that as the "other" value is never negative. --[[User:Felthry|Felthry]] ([[User talk:Felthry|talk]]) 16:24, 28 February 2017 (UTC)

Talk:Guardian deities

2017-02-28T01:02:51Z

Felthry: /* Moving the page */

== Moving the page ==

Should we move the page to Tapu or Tapus, since that is still an official name for them and more people seem to be using it than guardian deities, as well as making the name of the page defiantly exclude any other Pokemon which are worshipped as protectors that may appear in the future? [[User:PartHunter|PartHunter]] ([[User talk:PartHunter|talk]]) 02:34, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
:Guardian deities is their official name, as seen on the official website. --[[User:HoennMaster|Hoenn]][[User talk:HoennMaster|Master]] 03:10, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
::If other Pokemon are called guardian deities in the future, they would almost certainly deserve to be mentioned alongside the tapu. Besides which, so far, the "tapu" are almost always called guardian deities, so that should be the most appropriate name. We don't need to invent a worry about future "guardian deities" to justify moving them. ''If'' it's expanded later, we can decide if we want to make a page dedicated to the tapu then. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 03:55, 3 November 2016 (UTC)

To revisit this discussion: the term used in dialogue in-game seems to be more often than not "tapu." In light of how the actual game depicts them, what's the new consensus? What does everyone think we should do? [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 17:21, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

:I'm against moving this unless Tiddlywinks' prediction comes true. They are still called "guardian deities" even in-game. In fact I tdon't think I've even seen them referred to generically as "Tapu". [[User:Schiffy|I don't even give a Schif]] ([[User talk:Schiffy|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Schiffy|Contribs]]) 17:23, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
::The Tapunium Z's description calls them the tapu, not the guardian deities. That's the main source that I think we should consider. Additionally, I think "guardian deity" is more Alola-specific terminology, whereas tapu is a term more applicable to the Pokémon world as a whole; they seem to be revered as guardian deities in Alola, but I doubt that holds in the rest of the Pokémon world (although that is a bit speculative). --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 17:40, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
:::To Schiffy: Look [[Acerola#Quotes|here]], Acerola uses tapu. I agree this page should be moved. Tapu is the most used terminology both in-game and the fandom. This group of Pokémon is called guardian deities, land spirits (see map description for Ruins of Conflict/Life/Abundance/Hope), and spirit guardians ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQnFKhZeWtk in the anime]). All of these are official and they can be referenced in the article, but for the title we should go with the one that's used the most rather than favoring one that's used here and there. --[[User:Mikuri|'''Mi''']][[User talk: Mikuri|'''ku''']][[Special:Contributions/Mikuri|'''ri''']] 11:02, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
:I see no reason that we should have it at Guardian Deities rather than Tapu... Both are official terms, used in game and referenced by official media, and one of those terms is used commonly by the Pokémon community. It seems a little ridiculous that we are choosing the less used term (Guardian deities) over the more common yet equally official term (tapus). --[[User:Celadonkey|Celad]][[User_talk:Celadonkey|onkey]] 21:08, 5 February 2017 (UTC)

I honestly think "Tapu" suits the page name well. It's in their names, and they are referred to as such in the games. [[User:Crummymummy|Crummymummy]] ([[User talk:Crummymummy|talk]]) 20:01, 22 February 2017 (UTC)
:I don't agree with him, but here's what Tiddlywinks had to say:
:"My opinion is that "tapu" is fairly informal. Guardian deity is an explicit description of their role and better IMO."
:--[[User:Celadonkey|Celad]][[User_talk:Celadonkey|onkey]] 00:28, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

::Not a mod, but I definitely agree that the page should be renamed to Tapu. As a name, "guardian deities" is awfully vague. It could, for example, refer to Celebi, who is found within a shrine and is noted to be the guardian of the forest. "Tapu" obviously refers specifically to the guardian deities themselves. And well, they are probably named "Tapu X" because they '''are''' the tapus. Calling them "tapus" as a whole just makes sense.[[User:GMario3826|GM_3826]] ([[User talk:GMario3826|talk]]) 21:21, 23 February 2017 (UTC)
:::Other groups can easily be as/more vague than "guardian deities". ("Legendary birds" would be a huge one.) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 22:26, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

I would like to reiterate that in-game dialogue overwhelmingly uses ''tapu'' more often than any other term for the group. I don't think that should be discounted lightly. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 06:49, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
:Sure, some official terms are that vague... but I don't see why we should favor a vague term over one that is both official and clearly refers to a certain group of Pokémon.[[User:GMario3826|GM_3826]] ([[User talk:GMario3826|talk]]) 19:26, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
::I didn't say anything about your other/overall arguments. I was only speaking to the one. The point is: vagueness does not hold up as a thing to count against a group's name. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 20:01, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
::...To contradict myself, though, as far as I'm concerned, "'''''tapu'''''" is vague. "tapu" has no meaning to anyone who doesn't ''already'' know exactly who they are. "Guardian deities", by contrast, is very understandable to anyone new to the lore. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 20:08, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
:::No, because it's still not clear as to what guardian deities you're talking about. Again, this series has MULTIPLE guardian deities. If a fan, based on this website, were to talk to a fan who didn't use this website but was familiar with this series, then it would be clear as to what they meant when they say "tapu", but not when they say "guardian deity". Also, in order to find this page, they would have to generally be looking for it... in which case, even more reason to use the more common name, since they would likely be familiar with the name (Tapu) but not what the Pokemon actually are, or otherwise they would like to know more.[[User:GMario3826|GM_3826]] ([[User talk:GMario3826|talk]]) 19:43, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
::::I don't particularly agree with your first point - I can't really think of any other Pokémon that are specifically '''guardian''' deities - but your last point is imo the best one brought up. I occasionally refer to "guardian deities" irl and none of my Pokémon loving friends know what I'm talking about, and I feel like I wouldn't know what they are either if not for Bulbapedia. Tapu is what I'd search online if I was looking for info on these guys. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celad]][[User_talk:Celadonkey|onkey]] 22:07, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
:::::That "last" point, suggesting that, "in order to find this page", tapu would be better is incredibly false. How are you looking for that page? If you're searching the wiki... Go ahead and try searching "tapu" right now, and tell me if you can't find this page. If you're looking for links... It's trivially as easy to link "tapu" as "guardian deity" if so desired; depending on the circumstances, either may be warranted. It's a non-issue. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 22:34, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
::::::I wasn't talking about Bulbapedia... I was talking about online in general. Simply searching "tapu" online shows no reports for the Guardian Deities page. Searching "tapu group" doesn't work at all. ''To find it on Google, you pretty much need to know what's on the Bulbapedia page!'' And that makes it really difficult and confusing for Pokemon fans who are not a part of Bulbapedia. Both terms are vague in some way, as have been pointed out by various users, so the vagueness shouldn't matter. What really matters is accessibility - and using the term "guardian deities" isn't accessible at all. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celad]][[User_talk:Celadonkey|onkey]] 23:32, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
:::::::If people want to find something on Bulbapedia, they'll generally search Bulbapedia. If someone doesn't know of Bulbapedia, I think I'd be a little surprised if "tapu" was the first thing someone would search that could/would lead them here.
:::::::Now, it's very possible that other people's results will be relatively different (and if that's so, that kind of minimizes this whole issue anyway...), but when I search very simply ''pokemon tapu'', Bulbapedia/{{p|Tapu Koko}} is my first result. (And for what it's worth, the first few pages have only a handful--if that--of pages that use just "tapu" in the title, with most getting hits for "Tapu Koko"/etc. So if 'competition' is the worry, it seems like a small one anyway.) If I'm halfway smart, I know very well that Tapu Koko is a "tapu", so I can easily go to its page and look for something like "Tapu Koko is one of the tapu"... And I should very quickly see "It is the guardian deity of Melemele Island." Which, OK, maybe that's not obvious. Good news: we can fix that. We could take a simple cue from {{p|Regirock}} or {{p|Zapdos}} and name drop the other three Pokemon to make it clear that "guardian deity" refers to all of them.
:::::::So no, you don't "need" to know the term "guardian deity" already. You just have to be reasonable. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 00:16, 28 February 2017 (UTC)
::::::::Yeah, that makes sense.

::::::::I still maintain that the page should be used, though, you said it yourself that the fact that a term is "vague" doesn't mean anything, and "tapu" is not only used in-game more frequently ("guardian deities" is used 12 times and "tapu" is used 30 times, disregarding instances used within a Pokemon name and duplicate mentions of Tapu Village) but it is used more frequently by members of the fandom, making it the more prevalent term. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celad]][[User_talk:Celadonkey|onkey]] 00:40, 28 February 2017 (UTC)
{{indent}}I have to support Celadonkey here; I feel like Tapu is a better name for the page than Guardian deity is, but any argument I could give is one that's already been stated in this comment chain, so I'll just provide another vote for moving it, even though it's not done by vote. And to answer the non-question above about other guardian deities, celebi comes to mind; it's explicitly called the guardian of the forest multiple times.

However, if the site admins' decision is to leave it where it is, then I'll go along with that. I likely won't agree with it, but in the end, it's a minor concern. --[[User:Felthry|Felthry]] ([[User talk:Felthry|talk]]) 01:02, 28 February 2017 (UTC)

==Legendary Pokémon==
Should we add them and Ultra Beast to Legendary pages while still having these pagse for operate information?--[[User:Jacob9594|Jacob Kogan]] ([[User talk:Jacob9594|talk]]) 21:32, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
:We're currently discussing that on [[Talk:Legendary Pokémon]]. Feel free to participate there, but let's try to keep the discussion conslidated ^.^ [[User:Nutter Butter|Nutter Butter]] ([[User talk:Nutter Butter|talk]]) 21:34, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

GTS treats the Tapus as Legendaries.

:"Do you want to include people who are seeking Mythical or Legendary Pokemon?"
:Select "Don't include"

Tapu Bulu request disappears from selection. [[User:TehPerson|TehPerson]] ([[User talk:TehPerson|talk]]) 09:20, 14 January 2017 (UTC)
:As has been clearly stated ''multiple times'' in the discussion linked directly above, the GTS treats them only as Legendary ''or'' Mythical, nothing more specific than that, so we won't be identifying them as one or the other until we get clear canonical confirmation of ''which'' of those they are. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 17:01, 14 January 2017 (UTC)
::Wait, so the discussion ''isn't'' about whether they are legendary or not, but whether they are legendary or mythical? I thought we already could tell they're not mythical, mythical Pokémon are event exclusive Pokémon. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celadonkey]] 14:11, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
::That being said, we should wait until more evidence to decide whether they are legendary or not. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celad]][[User_talk:Celadonkey|onkey]] 14:16, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
:::Deoxys was called Mythical in ORAS. We will wait, therefore, for a specific desgination. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 14:38, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
::::It was? Huh, I always thought that the official designation changed, with that poll and all. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celad]][[User_talk:Celadonkey|onkey]] 15:01, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
:::::So, since we know that they are either Legendary or Mythical, should we add them to [[Template:Legendary Pokémon]]? --[[User:Celadonkey|Celad]][[User_talk:Celadonkey|onkey]] 16:45, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
::::::At this point, we should add them to a disputed category/template, if anything. --[[User:Super goku|Super goku]] ([[User talk:Super goku|talk]]) 07:01, 6 February 2017 (UTC)

User talk:JamesyWamesy

2017-02-27T18:08:00Z

Felthry:

Template talk:Indent

2017-02-27T18:01:38Z

2017-02-22T13:13:08Z

Felthry: Undo revision 2603116 by AwesomeDJPokemon (talk) I really don't think those should go on the same line.

{{samename|first Japanese opening theme of the {{series|Sun & Moon}}|Alola!!}}
{{incomplete}}
{{RegionInfobox
|regioncolor=alola
|name=Alola
|jname=アローラ
|tmname=Alola
|image=Alola alt.png
|size=300
|caption=Artwork of the Alola region from {{g|Sun and Moon}}
|introduction={{g|Sun and Moon}}
|professor=[[Professor Kukui]]
|starter={{p|Rowlet}}, {{p|Litten}}, and {{p|Popplio}}
|villain=[[Team Skull]]
|league=[[Alola League]]
|location={{al|Pokémon League}}
|dex=yes
|pokelist=[[List of Pokémon by Alola Pokédex number|Alola Pokédex]]
|generation={{Gen|VII}}
|games={{pkmn|Sun and Moon}}
|series={{series2|Sun & Moon}}
|season=[[S20|Sun & Moon]] (20)
|manga=
}}
'''Alola''' (Japanese: '''アローラ地方''' ''Alola-chihō'') is a region of the [[Pokémon world]]. It is the setting of {{g|Sun and Moon}}.

The Alola region is made of up four natural islands and one artificial island. It is a popular resort destination and attracts a lot of tourists from other regions. In Alola, humans and Pokémon coexist in a very close relationship, and a culture has developed that is different from other regions.

==Etymology and design concept==
===Etymology===
According to [[Shigeru Ohmori]], the name "Alola" is meant to incorporate a meaning of a land that overflows with life force and supports various forms of life.<ref>[https://www.twitch.tv/nintendo/v/72391082?t=43m Nintendo Treehouse: Live at E3 (recorded)]</ref> The name may come from ''ola'', Hawaiian for life, and the traditional Hawaiian greeting ''{{wp|aloha}}''.

===Design concept===
{{main|Pokémon world in relation to the real world#Alola|Pokémon world in relation to the real world → Alola}}
Alola is based on {{wp|Hawaii}}, a state of the {{wp|United States}}.<ref>[http://www.pokemon.co.jp/ex/sun_moon/ Pokémon Sun and Moon Japanese official site]</ref><ref>[http://lineblog.me/masudajunichi/archives/3406435.html Junichi Masuda's LINE blog]</ref>

==History==
===Dated history===
* c. 500 years prior to the events of Pokémon Sun and Moon, {{p|Magearna}} was built and presented to a king's daughter.

===Contemporary history===

==Cities, routes, and other locations==
Alola has nine cities and towns, and a Pokémon League. Like in Unova and Kalos, the routes of Alola start counting again from 1, likely to represent its geographical isolation from the original four regions. There are 17 routes in total.

===Demographics===
The Alola region has a total population of 392, including all towns, cities, and other areas.

===Cities and towns===
{|style="margin:auto; text-align:center; background:#{{alola color dark}}; {{roundy|5px}}; border: 2px solid #{{alola color}}"
|- style="color:#FFF"
! style="background:#{{alola color}}; {{roundytl|5px}}" | Map
! style="background:#{{alola color}}" | City/Town
! style="background:#{{alola color}}" | Population
! style="background:#{{alola color}}; {{roundytr|5px}}" | Description
|- style="background:#FFF"
| [[File:Iki Town SM.png|100px]]
| [[Iki Town]]
| 18
| An old town where traditions have been passed on for generations. The villagers here are close with Tapu Koko.
|- style="background:#FFF"
| [[File:Hau'oli City.png|100px]]
| [[Hau'oli City]]
| 107
| '''Beachfront''': A popular spot where locals like to gather. Even people from other towns come to Hau'oli City to visit this beach. '''Shopping District''': The bustling center of the city, where you can get everything from fashion items to popular treats to eat. '''Marina''': A harbor where you can set out for the other islands. It's visited by many people and boats.
|- style="background:#FFF"
| [[File:Heahea City SM.png|100px]]
| [[Heahea City]]
| 68
| Considered the "front door" to Akala Island, this town's residents treasure visitors and welcome them most warmly.
|- style="background:#FFF"
| [[File:Paniola Town SM.png|100px]]
| [[Paniola Town]]
| 16
| A town located in the middle of Akala Island and surrounded by ranch land and pastures for grazing.
|- style="background:#FFF"
| [[File:Konikoni City SM.png|100px]]
| [[Konikoni City]]
| 44
| The large gateway at the entrance gives a unique impression. This is a city of merchants, where you find lots of shops.
|- style="background:#FFF"
| [[File:Malie City SM.png|100px]]
| [[Malie City]]
| 68
| A city with an obvious Eastern influence in its design. The architecture is distinctive here. '''Outer Cape''': A cape famous for its Recycling Plant. The plant is co-managed by people and Pokémon.
|- style="background:#FFF"
| [[File:Tapu Village SM.png|100px]]
| [[Tapu Village]]
| 13
| The remains of a village said to have been destroyed by the island's tapu when the people roused its anger.
|- style="background:#FFF"
| [[File:Po Town SM.png|100px]]
| [[Po Town]]
| 23
| A town barricaded with tall walls that seem to reach the sky. It is occupied by Team Skull.
|- style="background:#FFF"
| [[File:Seafolk Village SM.png|100px]]
| [[Seafolk Village]]
| 24
| The village of a wandering people who live on ships. They all seem to love living free and unfettered.
|- style="background:#FFF"
| [[File:Pokémon League SM.png|100px]]
| {{al|Pokémon League}}
| 11
| The place where the most powerful Trainer in the Alola region will be decided. Coming soon!
|}

===Landmarks===
{|style="margin:auto; text-align:center; background:#{{alola color dark}}; {{roundy|5px}}; border: 2px solid #{{alola color}}"
|- style="color:#FFF"
! style="background:#{{alola color}}; {{roundytl|5px}}" | Map
! style="background:#{{alola color}}" | Landmark
! style="background:#{{alola color}}; {{roundytr|5px}}" | Description
|- style="background:#FFF"
| [[File:Mahalo Trail SM.png|100px]]
| [[Mahalo Trail]]
| A mountainous trail that leads to the sacred ruins. The cool air up here is very soothing on the skin.
|- style="background:#FFF"
| [[File:Hau'oli Cemetery SM.png|100px]]
| [[Hau'oli Cemetery]]
| The people and Pokémon on Melemele Island share their lives, and here they have also shared their graves for generations.
|- style="background:#FFF"
| [[File:Berry fields SM.png|100px]]
| {{al|Berry fields}}
| A Berry field with soft soil. It is the pride and joy of the local Berry master.
|- style="background:#FFF"
| [[File:Verdant Cavern SM.png|100px]]
| [[Verdant Cavern]]
| A cave with a great variety of plants thriving inside it. The light shafting in from above makes for a breathtaking sight.
|- style="background:#FFF"
| [[File:Melemele Meadow SM.png|100px]]
| [[Melemele Meadow]]
| A place where yellow flowers bloom in abundance. You can gather the nectar Oricorio loves to feed on here.
|- style="background:#FFF"
| [[File:Ten Carat Hill SM.png|100px]]
| [[Ten Carat Hill]]
| A great hill formed by the activity of an underwater volcano. It is famous for the hollow in its middle that is open to the air.
|- style="background:#FFF"
| [[File:Paniola Ranch SM.png|100px]]
| [[Paniola Ranch]]
| The ranch managed together by the people and Pokémon living in Paniola Town.
|- style="background:#FFF"
| [[File:Brooklet Hill SM.png|100px]]
| [[Brooklet Hill]]
| The best fishing spot in the Alola region. Its series of cascading waterfalls make it look like a terrace field.
|- style="background:#FFF"
| [[File:Melemele Sea SM.png|100px]]
| [[Melemele Sea]]
| This sea is crowded with Melemele islanders, local Pokémon, and visiting tourists all year round.
|- style="background:#FFF"
| [[File:Seaward Cave SM.png|100px]]
| [[Seaward Cave]]
| A cave that connects Melemele Meadow and Kala'e Bay. It is filled with salty smell of the sea.
|- style="background:#FFF"
| [[File:Kala'e Bay SM.png|100px]]
| [[Kala'e Bay]]
| One of the most scenic spots on Melemele Island. It was chosen as one of the top 100 views in Alola.
|- style="background:#FFF"
| [[File:Royal Avenue SM.png|100px]]
| [[Royal Avenue]]
| A major street that has developed so much thanks to the Battle Royal Dome being on it, making it look like a city street.
|- style="background:#FFF"
| [[File:Wela Volcano Park SM.png|100px]]
| [[Wela Volcano Park]]
| A mountain with steep paths and waste lands. There is a trial site on top.
|- style="background:#FFF"
| [[File:Lush Jungle SM.png|100px]]
| [[Lush Jungle]]
| A heavily wooded tropical rain forest. It's famous for producing ingredients for delicious meals.
|- style="background:#FFF"
| [[File:Diglett's Tunnel SM.png|100px]]
| [[Diglett's Tunnel]]
| Diglett and people worked together to finish digging this tunnel several years ago.
|- style="background:#FFF"
| [[File:Memorial Hill SM.png|100px]]
| [[Memorial Hill]]
| A place where the memories of people and Pokémon linger. Many people come from other islands to visit this graveyard.
|- style="background:#FFF"
| [[File:Akala Outskirts SM.png|100px]]
| [[Akala Outskirts]]
| A grassy stretch along Akala's southern-most coast. It leads from Memorial Hill to the Ruins of Life.
|- style="background:#FFF"
| [[File:Ruins of Life SM.png|100px]]
| [[Ruins of Life]]
| The ruins that enshrine Tapu Lele, one of the land spirits. It is said that life is born here.
|- style="background:#FFF"
| [[File:Hano Grand Resort SM.png|100px]]
| [[Hano Grand Resort]]
| The biggest of all the resorts in the Alola region. The hotel is fully booked a year in advance.
|- style="background:#FFF"
| [[File:Hano Beach SM.png|100px]]
| [[Hano Beach]]
| The beach near Hano Grand Hotel at the Hano Grand Resort. Pyukumuku-chucking is a popular part-time job to do here.
|- style="background:#FFF"
| [[File:Aether Paradise.png|100px]]
| [[Aether Paradise]]
| A VLFS or a "very large floating structure." This is where the Aether Foundation's research facilities are.
|- style="background:#FFF"
| [[File:Malie Garden SM.png|100px]]
| [[Malie Garden]]
| A well-manicured garden located in the middle of Malie City. The large lake within it seems to resemble something...
|- style="background:#FFF"
| [[File:Mount Hokulani SM.png|100px]]
| [[Mount Hokulani]]
| A mountain suitable for observing the stars. There is an observatory on top.
|- style="background:#FFF"
| [[File:Hokulani Observatory SM.png|100px]]
| [[Hokulani Observatory]]
| A research facility for observing and studying various phenomena in space.
|- style="background:#FFF"
| [[File:Blush Mountain SM.png|100px]]
| [[Blush Mountain]]
| The mountain where the Geothermal Power Plant is situated. Its output covers almost all of Ula'ula Island's electric needs.
|- style="background:#FFF"
| [[File:Secluded Shore SM.png|100px]]
| [[Secluded Shore]]
| A small patch of shore on the southern coast of Ula'ula Island. A rather isolated and unwelcoming place.
|- style="background:#FFF"
| [[File:Aether House SM.png|100px]]
| [[Aether House]]
| Where Pokémon and people huddle together.
|- style="background:#FFF"
| [[File:Thrifty Megamart Abandoned Site SM.png|100px]]
| [[Thrifty Megamart (Abandoned Site)]]
| The original site of the first Thrifty Megamart store. It is said to have been destroyed by the island's tapu.
|- style="background:#FFF"
| [[File:Haina Desert SM.png|100px]]
| [[Haina Desert]]
| A scorching-hot desert beyond Route 13. Trainers often get lost here in this broiling labyrinth.
|- style="background:#FFF"
| [[File:Ruins of Abundance SM.png|100px]]
| [[Ruins of Abundance]]
| The ruins that enshrine Tapu Bulu, one of the land spirits. It is said that life grows here.
|- style="background:#FFF"
| [[File:Ula'ula Meadow SM.png|100px]]
| [[Ula'ula Meadow]]
| A place where red flowers bloom in abundance. You can gather the nectar Oricorio loves to feed on here.
|- style="background:#FFF"
| [[File:Lake of the Moone SM.png|100px]]
| [[Lake of the Moone]]
| A place that seems to have some connection to the Alola's Legendary Pokémon. The lake forms a perfect circle.
|- style="background:#FFF"
| [[File:Lake of the Sunne SM.png|100px]]
| [[Lake of the Sunne]]
| A place that seems to have some connection to the Alola's Legendary Pokémon. The lake forms a perfect circle.
|- style="background:#FFF"
| [[File:Shady House SM.png|100px]]
| [[Shady House]]
| A mansion abandoned by a certain rich citizen. People sometimes call it the "Shady Chateau," too.
|- style="background:#FFF"
| [[File:Poni Wilds SM.png|100px]]
| [[Poni Wilds]]
| The entrance to Poni Island. It connects to Seafolk Village.
|- style="background:#FFF"
| [[File:Ancient Poni Path SM.png|100px]]
| [[Ancient Poni Path]]
| An old path that leads to Vast Poni Canyon. Some people and Pokémon still try to live in the ruins here, but not many.
|- style="background:#FFF"
| [[File:Poni Breaker Coast SM.png|100px]]
| [[Poni Breaker Coast]]
| The southern coast of Poni Island, where rough waves pound mercilessly upon the shore.
|- style="background:#FFF"
| [[File:Ruins of Hope SM.png|100px]]
| [[Ruins of Hope]]
| The ruins that enshrine Tapu Fini, one of the land spirits. It is said that life ends its journey here.
|- style="background:#FFF"
| [[File:Exeggutor Island SM.png|100px]]
| [[Exeggutor Island]]
| It's a paradise for Exeggutor! This island is designated as a special preserve.
|- style="background:#FFF"
| [[File:Vast Poni Canyon SM.png|100px]]
| [[Vast Poni Canyon]]
| The most challenging path on Ula'ula Island. The ups and downs of this canyon are beyond any other.
|- style="background:#FFF"
| [[File:Altar of the Sunne SM.png|100px]]
| [[Altar of the Sunne]]
| An altar that is said to be closely associated with the Legendary Pokémon depicted in the local folklore.
|- style="background:#FFF"
| [[File:Altar of the Moone SM.png|100px]]
| [[Altar of the Moone]]
| An altar that is said to be closely associated with the Legendary Pokémon depicted in the local folklore.
|- style="background:#FFF"
| [[File:Mount Lanakila SM.png|100px]]
| [[Mount Lanakila]]
| The roughest and coldest mountain in the Alola region. A large-scale construction project has been taken up here.
|- style="background:#FFF"
| [[File:Ruins of Conflict SM.png|100px]]
| [[Ruins of Conflict]]
| The ruins that enshrine Tapu Koko, one of the land spirits. It is said that life is tested here.
|- style="background:#FFF"
| [[File:Poni Grove SM.png|100px]]
| [[Poni Grove]]
| A natural path that winds among the many trees. It leads to the eastern side of Poni Island.
|- style="background:#FFF"
| [[File:Poni Plains SM.png|100px]]
| [[Poni Plains]]
| The plains that lead to the northern part of Poni Island. There is also a path connecting to Poni Meadow from here.
|- style="background:#FFF"
| [[File:Poni Meadow SM.png|100px]]
| [[Poni Meadow]]
| A place where purple flowers bloom in abundance. You can gather the nectar Oricorio loves to feed on here.
|- style="background:#FFF"
| [[File:Resolution Cave SM.png|100px]]
| [[Resolution Cave]]
| A cave that leads deep, deep down under the ground. How it got the name "resolution" is not known.
|- style="background:#FFF"
| [[File:Poni Coast SM.png|100px]]
| [[Poni Coast]]
| The north-eastern coast of Poni Island, where the clarity of the water makes it a popular view spot.
|- style="background:#FFF"
| [[File:Poni Gauntlet SM.png|100px]]
| [[Poni Gauntlet]]
| A difficult path that leads to the Battle Tree. It's full of tough Trainers.
|- style="background:#FFF"
| [[File:Battle Tree SM.png|100px]]
| [[Battle Tree]]
| The sacred battle grounds for the toughest Trainers of the Alola region.
|- style="background:#FFF"
| [[File:Sun Moon Poké Pelago artwork.png|100px]]
| [[Poké Pelago]]
|
|- style="background:#FFF"
| [[File:Sun Moon Festival Plaza artwork.png|100px]]
| [[Festival Plaza]]
|
|}

===Anime-exclusive locations===
{| style="margin:auto; text-align:center; background:#{{alola color dark}}; {{roundy|5px}}; border: 2px solid #{{alola color}}"
|- style="color:#FFF"
! style="background:#{{alola color}}; {{roundytl|5px}}" | Picture
! style="background:#{{alola color}}" | Location
! style="background:#{{alola color}}; {{roundytr|5px}}" | Description
|- style="background:#FFF"
| [[File:Pokémon School.png|150px]]
| [[Pokémon School]]
| style="text-align:left" | A school on Melemele Island where {{pkmn|Trainer}}s of varying ages meet to improve themselves. [[Samson Oak]] is the principal.
|}

==Geography==
===Environment===
The Alola region consists of four main islands, [[Melemele Island]], [[Akala Island]], [[Ula'ula Island]], [[Poni Island]]; and one artificial island, [[Aether Paradise]], which is described as a "Very Large Floating Structure" or VLFS. It is not possible to {{m|Surf}}, or, for that matter, use the [[Poké Ride]]'s {{p|Lapras}} Paddle or {{p|Sharpedo}} Jet between the islands; those wishing to do so must take boats or the Poké Ride's {{p|Charizard}} Glide. All four islands are to an extent forested and mountainous; most of the cities and towns are on the coastlines, with notable exceptions being [[Iki Town]] and [[Paniola Town]]. Routes are relatively developed here compared to other regions, with several of them having their own [[Pokémon center]]s in addition to residential buildings.

Melemele Island to the northwest, while steeped in nature, has the least extreme environments, and is home to Alola's largest settlement, [[Hau'oli City]]. Its routes gently slope up towards the center of the island to form a gradual mountain, on top of which are the [[Ruins of Conflict]]. It is notable for [[Ten Carat Hill]], which was formed out of an underwater volcano and has a open-air hollow in the middle, itself resembling a volcano.

Akala Island, to the northeast, contains Alola's only active volcano, [[Wela Volcano Park]], and has the most settlements of the four islands. It boasts several huge resort hotels, all in [[Heahea City]], one of which has its own beach and golf course. It is notable for [[Brooklet Hill]], whose cascading waterfalls give off the impression of a terrace field.

Ula'ula Island to the southeast is the largest of Alola's islands, and also the most varying in terms of weather and terrain, which is significantly rougher. For such a large island, it has few settlements; one is an abandoned town while another is in ruins and contains just a Pokémon Center. These all sit in the shadow of what is essentially a contiguous mountain range in the heart of the island, which boasts not just three mountains, but also a harsh desert. Towards the southwest is a lagoon with breakable rocks that the Sharpedo Jet can break through.

Poni Island, to the southwest, is more sparsely populated, having only one settlement; and, similar to the [[Battle Zone]] in [[Sinnoh]], is full of rugged and harsh environments. The island is mostly mountainous and rocky in part due to the sprawling canyon - which is in itself described as a natural [[Island challenge|trial site]] - that takes up over half the island's space, although the coastline areas are more level.

The Aether Paradise, in stark contrast to the natural islands, is strikingly modern, with a huge building in the center that serves as both the main area and the headquarters of its owners, the [[Aether Foundation]]. Behind this building is a sprawling mansion that serves as the office and residence of its head.

===Climate===
Similar to [[Hoenn]], Alola seems to have a warmer climate than in other regions, implying an equatorial climate; Hawaii, which Alola is based on, experiences such climate. However, [[Mount Lanakila]], Alola's highest point, constantly experiences snow and {{weather|hail}}, due to its high altitude.

Apart from that, the islands experience a wide variety of weather conditions, especially on Ula'ula Island, which alone is afflicted with not only harsh {{weather|sun}} and extreme {{weather|sandstorm}} in the desert near its center, but also snow and hail from the aforementioned Mount Lanakila. Frequent {{weather|rain}} falls on its northern side, as well as on the northwestern side of Akala Island, where a thriving rainforest grows.

These environmental conditions are reflected in its Pokémon, some of which have adapted to the environmental conditions in different ways; for example, {{p|Exeggutor}} is five times as tall here due to the abundant sunlight.

==Ecology==
Due to the unique environmental pressures, a number of Pokémon species that appear in Alola have [[regional variant]]s known as Alola Forms that have different properties to elsewhere in the Pokémon world. For example, in Alola {{p|Vulpix}} moved to snowy mountain peaks to avoid the normal habitats of other Pokémon, and adapted to their new environment by becoming {{type|Ice}}.

==Island challenge==
{{main|Island challenge}}
The island challenge is a rite of passage in the Alola region consisting of trials on each of Alola's four main islands. Each trial has a [[Trial Captain]] who provides guidance to Trainers undertaking a trial. At the end of each trial, Trainers must face a [[Totem Pokémon]] in an [[SOS Battle]]. The final trial on each island is called the grand trial, where the Trainer must battle the [[Island Kahuna]]. The goal of those taking the island challenge is to become the strongest Trainer, known as the island challenge {{pkmn|Champion|champion}}.

===Captains and Totem Pokémon===
====Melemele Island====
{| class="roundy" style="margin:auto; text-align:center; background: #{{yellow color dark}}; border: 5px solid #{{yellow color dark}}" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="2"
|-
! colspan="5" | {{color2|{{yellow color light}}|Melemele Island}}
|-
! style="background:#{{yellow color light}}; color:#{{yellow color dark}}; {{roundytl|5px}}" | {{color2|{{yellow color dark}}|Trial Captain}} Japanese
! style="background:#{{yellow color light}}; color:#{{yellow color dark}};" | Location Japanese
! style="background:#{{yellow color light}}" | {{color2|{{yellow color dark}}|Type}}
! style="background:#{{yellow color light}}" | {{color2|{{yellow color dark}}|Totem Pokémon}}
! style="background:#{{yellow color light}}; {{roundytr|5px}}" | {{color2|{{yellow color dark}}|SOS Battle|Ally Pokémon}}
|-
| style="background:#{{normal color light}}; {{roundybl|5px}}" rowspan=2 | [[File:VSIlima.png|x120px|Ilima]] {{color2|{{normal color dark}}|Ilima}} {{color|{{normal color dark}}|イリマ Ilima}}
| style="background:#{{normal color light}}" rowspan=2 | {{color2|{{normal color dark}}|Verdant Cavern}} {{color|{{normal color dark}}|茂みの洞窟 Verdant Cavern}}
| style="background:#{{normal color light}}" rowspan=2 | {{tcolor|Normal|{{normal color dark}}}}
| style="background:#{{normal color light}}" | [[File:735Gumshoos.png|120px|Gumshoos]] {{pcolor|Gumshoos|{{normal color dark}}}}{{sup/7|S}}
| style="background:#{{normal color light}}" | [[File:734Yungoos.png|120px|Yungoos]] {{pcolor|Yungoos|{{normal color dark}}}}{{sup/7|S}}
|-
| style="background:#{{normal color light}}" | [[File:020Raticate-Alola.png|120px|Alolan Raticate]] {{pcolor|Raticate|{{normal color dark}}|Alolan Raticate}}{{sup/7|M}}
| style="background:#{{normal color light}}; {{roundybr|5px}}" | [[File:019Rattata-Alola.png|120px|Alolan Rattata]] {{pcolor|Rattata|{{normal color dark}}|Alolan Rattata}}{{sup/7|M}}
|}

====Akala Island====
{| class="roundy" style="margin:auto; text-align:center; background: #{{fairy color dark}}; border: 5px solid #{{fairy color dark}}" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="2"
|-
! colspan="5" | {{color2|{{fairy color light}}|Akala Island}}
|-
! style="background:#{{fairy color light}}; color:#{{fairy color dark}}; {{roundytl|5px}}" | {{color2|{{fairy color dark}}|Trial Captain}} Japanese
! style="background:#{{fairy color light}}; color:#{{fairy color dark}};" | Location Japanese
! style="background:#{{fairy color light}}" | {{color2|{{fairy color dark}}|Type}}
! style="background:#{{fairy color light}}" | {{color2|{{fairy color dark}}|Totem Pokémon}}
! style="background:#{{fairy color light}}; {{roundytr|5px}}" | {{color2|{{fairy color dark}}|SOS Battle|Ally Pokémon}}
|-
| style="background:#{{water color light}}; color:#{{water color dark}};"| [[File:VSLana.png|x120px|Lana]] {{color2|{{water color dark}}|Lana}} スイレン Suiren
| style="background:#{{water color light}}; color:#{{water color dark}};"| {{color2|{{water color dark}}|Brooklet Hill}} せせらぎの丘 Brooklet Hill
| style="background:#{{water color light}};"| {{tcolor|Water|{{water color dark}}}}
| style="background:#{{water color light}}; color:#{{water color dark}};"| [[File:746Wishiwashi-School.png|120px|Wishiwashi]] {{pcolor|Wishiwashi|{{water color dark}}}} ({{color2|{{water color dark}}|List of Pokémon with form differences#Wishiwashi|School Form}})
| style="background:#{{water color light}}; color:#{{water color dark}};"| [[File:746Wishiwashi-Solo.png|120px|Wishiwashi]][[File:594Alomomola.png|120px|Alomomola]] {{pcolor|Wishiwashi|{{water color dark}}}} and {{pcolor|Alomomola|{{water color dark}}}}
|-
| style="background:#{{fire color light}}; color:#{{fire color dark}};"| [[File:VSKiawe.png|x120px|Kiawe]] {{color2|{{fire color dark}}|Kiawe}} カキ Kaki
| style="background:#{{fire color light}}; color:#{{fire color dark}};"| {{color2|{{fire color dark}}|Wela Volcano Park}} ヴェラ火山公園 Wela Volcano Park
| style="background:#{{fire color light}};"| {{tcolor|Fire}}
| style="background:#{{fire color light}}"| [[File:758Salazzle.png|120px|Salazzle]] {{pcolor|Salazzle|{{fire color dark}}}}
| style="background:#{{fire color light}};| [[File:757Salandit.png|120px|Salandit]] {{pcolor|Salandit|{{fire color dark}}}}
|-
| style="background:#{{grass color light}}; color:#{{grass color dark}}; {{roundybl|5px}}" | [[File:VSMallow.png|x120px|Mallow]] {{color2|{{grass color dark}}|Mallow}} マオ Mao
| style="background:#{{grass color light}}; color:#{{grass color dark}};" | {{color2|{{grass color dark}}|Lush Jungle}} シェードジャングル Shade Jungle
| style="background:#{{grass color light}}" | {{tcolor|Grass}}
| style="background:#{{grass color light}}" | [[File:754Lurantis.png|120px|Lurantis]] {{pcolor|Lurantis|{{grass color dark}}}}
| style="background:#{{grass color light}}; color:#{{grass color dark}};" | [[File:732Trumbeak.png|120px|Trumbeak]][[File:351Castform.png|120px|Castform]] {{pcolor|Trumbeak|{{grass color dark}}}} and {{pcolor|Castform|{{grass color dark}}}}
|}

====Ula'ula Island====
{| class="roundy" style="margin:auto; text-align:center; background: #{{red color dark}}; border: 5px solid #{{red color dark}}" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="2"
|-
! colspan="5" | {{color2|{{red color light}}|Ula'ula Island}}
|-
! style="background:#{{red color light}}; color:#{{red color dark}}; {{roundytl|5px}}" | {{color2|{{red color dark}}|Trial Captain}} Japanese
! style="background:#{{red color light}}; color:#{{red color dark}};" | Location Japanese
! style="background:#{{red color light}}" | {{color2|{{red color dark}}|Type}}
! style="background:#{{red color light}}" | {{color2|{{red color dark}}|Totem Pokémon}}
! style="background:#{{red color light}}; {{roundytr|5px}}" | {{color2|{{red color dark}}|SOS Battle|Ally Pokémon}}
|-
| style="background:#{{electric color light}}; color:#{{electric color dark}};"| [[File:VSSophocles.png|x120px|Sophocles]] {{color2|{{electric color dark}}|Sophocles}} マーマネ Māmane
| style="background:#{{electric color light}}; color:#{{electric color dark}};"| {{color2|{{electric color dark}}|Hokulani Observatory}} ホクラニ天文台 Hōkūlani Observatory
| style="background:#{{electric color light}};"| {{tcolor|Electric}}
| style="background:#{{electric color light}};"| [[File:738Vikavolt.png|120px|Vikavolt]] {{pcolor|Vikavolt|{{electric color dark}}}}
| style="background:#{{electric color light}}; color:#{{electric color dark}};"| [[File:737Charjabug.png|120px|Charjabug]][[File:737Charjabug.png|120px|Charjabug]] {{pcolor|Charjabug|{{electric color dark}}}} ×2
|-
| style="background:#{{ghost color light}}; color:#{{ghost color dark}}; {{roundybl|5px}}" | [[File:VSAcerola.png|x120px|Acerola]] {{color2|{{ghost color dark}}|Acerola}} アセロラ Acerola
| style="background:#{{ghost color light}}; color:#{{ghost color dark}};" | {{color2|{{ghost color dark}}|Thrifty Megamart (Abandoned Site)}} スーパー・メガやす　跡地 Supermarket Megacheap (Abandoned Site)
| style="background:#{{ghost color light}}" | {{tcolor|Ghost}}
| style="background:#{{ghost color light}}" | [[File:778Mimikyu.png|120px|Mimikyu]] {{pcolor|Mimikyu|{{ghost color dark}}}}
| style="background:#{{ghost color light}}; color:#{{ghost color dark}}; {{roundybr|5px}}" | [[File:093Haunter.png|120px|Haunter]][[File:094Gengar.png|120px|Gengar]] {{pcolor|Haunter|{{ghost color dark}}}} and {{pcolor|Gengar|{{ghost color dark}}}}
|}

====Poni Island====
{| class="roundy" style="margin:auto; text-align:center; background: #{{poison color dark}}; border: 5px solid #{{poison color dark}}" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="2"
|-
! colspan="5" | {{color2|{{poison color light}}|Poni Island}}
|-
! style="background:#{{poison color light}}; color:#{{poison color dark}}; {{roundytl|5px}}" | {{color2|{{poison color dark}}|Trial Captain}} Japanese
! style="background:#{{poison color light}}; color:#{{poison color dark}};" | Location Japanese
! style="background:#{{poison color light}};" | {{color2|{{poison color dark}}|Type}}
! style="background:#{{poison color light}};" | {{color2|{{poison color dark}}|Totem Pokémon}}
! style="background:#{{poison color light}}; {{roundytr|5px}}" | {{color2|{{poison color dark}}|SOS Battle|Ally Pokémon}}
|-
| style="background:#{{fairy color light}}; color:#{{fairy color dark}};"| [[File:VSMina.png|x120px|Mina]] {{color2|{{fairy color dark}}|Mina}} マツリカ Matsurika
| style="background:#{{fairy color light}}; color:#{{fairy color dark}};"| None
| style="background:#{{fairy color light}};"| {{tcolor|Fairy}}
| style="background:#{{fairy color light}}; color:#{{fairy color dark}};"| None
| style="background:#{{fairy color light}}; color:#{{fairy color dark}};"| None
|-
| style="background:#{{dragon color light}}; color:#{{dragon color dark}}; {{roundybl|5px}}" | None
| style="background:#{{dragon color light}}; color:#{{dragon color dark}};" | {{color2|{{dragon color dark}}|Vast Poni Canyon}} ポニの大峡谷 Great Canyon of Poni
| style="background:#{{dragon color light}};" | {{tcolor|Dragon}}
| style="background:#{{dragon color light}};" | [[File:784Kommo-o.png|120px|Kommo-o]] {{pcolor|Kommo-o|{{dragon color dark}}}}
| style="background:#{{dragon color light}}; color:#{{dragon color dark}}; {{roundybr|5px}}" | [[File:783Hakamo-o.png|120px|Hakamo-o]][[File:212Scizor.png|120px|Scizor]] {{pcolor|Hakamo-o|{{dragon color dark}}}} and {{pcolor|Scizor|{{dragon color dark}}}}
|}

===Island Kahunas===
{| class="roundy" style="margin:auto; text-align:center; background:#{{alola color dark}}; border: 5px solid #{{alola color dark}}" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="2"
! style="background:#{{alola color light}}; {{roundytl|5px}}" | {{color2|{{alola color dark}}|Island Kahuna}} {{color|{{alola color dark}}|Japanese}}
! style="background:#{{alola color light}}" | {{color|{{alola color dark}}|Island}}
! style="background:#{{alola color light}}" | {{color|{{alola color dark}}|Location Japanese}}
! style="background:#{{alola color light}}; {{roundytr|5px}}" | {{color2|{{alola color dark}}|Type}}
|-
| style="background:#{{fighting color light}}; color:#{{fighting color dark}};" | [[File:VSHala.png|x120px|Hala]] {{color2|{{fighting color dark}}|Hala}} ハラ Hala
| style="background:#{{fighting color light}}"| {{color2|{{fighting color dark}}|Melemele Island}}
| style="background:#{{fighting color light}}; color:#{{fighting color dark}};"| {{color2|{{fighting color dark}}|Iki Town}} リリィタウン Liliʻi Town
| style="background:#{{fighting color light}};" | {{tcolor|Fighting}}
|-
| style="background:#{{rock color light}}; color:#{{rock color dark}};" | [[File:VSOlivia.png|x120px|Olivia]] {{color2|{{rock color dark}}|Olivia}} ライチ Lychee
| style="background:#{{rock color light}}"| {{color2|{{rock color dark}}|Akala Island}}
| style="background:#{{rock color light}}; color:#{{rock color dark}};"| {{color2|{{rock color dark}}|Ruins of Life}} 命の遺跡 Ruins of Life
| style="background:#{{rock color light}};" | {{tcolor|Rock}}
|-
| style="background:#{{dark color light}}; color:#{{dark color dark}};" | [[File:VSNanu.png|x120px|Nanu]] {{color2|{{dark color dark}}|Nanu}} クチナシ Kuchinashi
| style="background:#{{dark color light}}"| {{color2|{{dark color dark}}|Ula'ula Island}}
| style="background:#{{dark color light}}; color:#{{dark color dark}};"| {{color2|{{dark color dark}}|Malie City}} マリエシティ Malie City
| style="background:#{{dark color light}};" | {{tcolor|Dark}}
|-
| style="background:#{{ground color light}}; color:#{{ground color dark}}; {{roundybl|5px}}" | [[File:VSHapu.png|x120px|]] {{color2|{{ground color dark}}|Hapu}} ハプウ Hapū
| style="background:#{{ground color light}}" | {{color2|{{ground color dark}}|Poni Island}}
| style="background:#{{ground color light}}; color:#{{rock color dark}};" | {{color2|{{ground color dark}}|Vast Poni Canyon}} ポニの大峡谷 Great Canyon of Poni
| style="background:#{{ground color light}}; {{roundybr|5px}}" | {{tcolor|Ground}}
|}

==Alola League==
{{main|Alola League}}
A {{al|Pokémon League}} for the Alola region was developed on top of [[Mount Lanakila]] by [[Professor Kukui]] only recently. As a result, the Alola League has no [[Pokémon Champion]]. Instead, after defeating the Elite Four, the {{player}} must battle Kukui, the founder of the league, in order to formally attain the title of Alola's first [[Pokémon League]] Champion.

===Elite Four===
{{elt/h|gen=VII|l={{alola color light}}|d={{alola color dark}}|league=Alola}}
{{elt|type=Fighting|pic=VSHala 2.png|m=Hala|mjap=ハラ|mrm=Hala|size=150px}}
{{elt|type=Rock|pic=VSOlivia 2.png|m=Olivia|mjap=ライチ|mrm=Lychee|size=150px}}
{{elt|type=Ghost|pic=VSAcerola.png|m=Acerola|mjap=アセロラ|mrm=Acerola|size=150px}}
{{elt|type=Flying|pic=VSKahili.png|m=Kahili|mjap=カヒリ|mrm=Kahili|size=150px}}
|}

==Trivia==
* Alola is the only [[core series]] [[region]] in which the player's home is not located in a city or town. Instead, it is located on {{rt|1|Alola}}.
* Alola is a {{wp|palindrome}}.
* Alola has the fewest [[route]]s of any core series region, with 17.
* Alola is the only core series region not to feature:
** [[HM]]s and [[field move]]s.
** [[Gym Leader]]s, {{pkmn|Gym}}s, and Badges.
** A notable {{type|Ice}} [[type expert|expert]].
** [[Bicycle]]s.
** A {{pkmn|Champion}} that precedes the player.
** [[Gate]]s.
* The adjectival form of Alola is "Alolan".

==See also==
* [[Pokémon Sun and Moon]]

==In other languages==
{| class="roundy" style="background:#{{Alola color light}}; border: 3px solid #{{Alola color}}"
|-
! Language
! Name
! Origin
|- style="background:#FFF"
| Korean
| 알로라 ''Allora''
| From its Japanese name
|- style="background:#FFF"
| Chinese ({{tt|Mandarin|Taiwan and mainland China}})
| 阿羅拉 / 阿罗拉 ''Āluólā''
| Transliteration of its Japanese name
|- style="background:#FFF"
| Chinese ({{tt|Cantonese|Hong Kong}})
| 阿羅拉 ''Alòhlāai''
| Mandarin-based transliteration of its Japanese name
|- style="background:#FFF"
| Russian
| Алола ''Alola''
| Transcription of its English name
|- style="background:#FFF"
| Thai
| อะโลลา ''Alola''
| Transliteration of its Japanese name
|}
{{-}}

==References==
<references/>
{{-}}
{{Regions|Alola}}

{{Alola}} 
{{Project Locations notice}}

[[Category:Alola locations|*]]
[[Category:Sun and Moon locations|*]]

[[de:Alola]]
[[fr:Alola]]
[[it:Alola]]
[[ja:アローラ地方]]
[[pl:Alola]]
[[zh:阿羅拉地區]]

Type: Null (Pokémon)

2017-02-22T01:50:07Z

Felthry: I don't believe anything ever said what the helmet was made of.

{{PokémonPrevNext/Head|type=Normal}}
{{PokémonPrevNext/Pokémon|type=Normal|prevnum=771|prev=Pyukumuku|nextnum=773|next=Silvally}}
|}
{{Pokémon Infobox
|name=Type: Null
|jname=タイプ：ヌル
|jtranslit=Taipu: Nuru
|tmname=Type: Null
|ndex=772
|type1=Normal
|category=Synthetic
|height-ftin=6'03"
|height-m=1.9
|weight-lbs=265.7
|weight-kg=120.5
|adex=203
|abilityn=1
|abilitylayout=1
|ability1=Battle Armor
|egggroupn=0
|egggroup1=Undiscovered
|eggcycles=120
|evtotal=2
|evhp=2
|expyield=107
|lv100exp=1,250,000
|gendercode=255
|color=Gray
|catchrate=3
|body=08
|pokefordex=type_null
|generation=7
|friendship=0
}}
'''Type: Null''' ([[List of Japanese Pokémon names|Japanese]]: '''タイプ：ヌル''' ''Type: Null'') is a {{type|Normal}} {{OBP|Pokémon|species}} introduced in [[Generation VII]].

It [[Evolution|evolves]] into {{p|Silvally}} when [[level]]ed up with high [[friendship]].

==Biology==
Type: Null is a quadruped, chimeric Pokémon with traits from a variety of creatures. Its head is enclosed in a brown helmet with green markings, designed to suppress its power to stable levels. The helmet has a large jaw piece that wraps around the front with large, round hinges on the side. Each hinge is covered by a green X-shaped marking. Small gray eyes can be seen from within rectangular black holes on the front, and there are two pointed ears on the top. Around the base is a collar with four protruding vanes that are tipped with a three-way spike. This collar has a thin green line between the vanes, and each vane has a green hexagon near the end. An axe-like blade with a band around the middle extends backward from the top of the helmet. The front tip of the blade has a small, silver spike that hooks downward.

A mane of gray fur hangs from below Type: Null's helmet and covers its shoulders and chest. Most of its torso and legs is covered in short black fur. The lower half of each front leg is insectoid and green with spikes along the back, while the rear legs have thick purple scales on the flanks, shins, and on the top of the foot. All four of its feet have three toes, but in the front two toes face forward and one backward. Additionally, the hind paws have a short, purple claw on the back of the ankle. Its fish-like tail consists of two dark blue spines with a light blue fin stretched between them. The top spine has a line of short, gray spikes.
{{Spoilers}}
Type: Null was created by [[Faba]] of the [[Aether Foundation]] to be an anti-[[Ultra Beast|UB]] Fighting life-form. Codenamed "Beast Killer", Type: Null was given cells taken from all known Pokémon [[type]]s with the intention of giving it the ability to {{a|RKS System|shift between types}} by holding a corresponding [[Memory]], an ability originally inspired by the myths about {{p|Arceus}} found in [[Canalave Library]]. This ability led the Aether Foundation to give it the name '''Type: Full''' (Japanese: '''タイプ：フル''' ''Type: Full''). Three known models of Type: Full were created, but all three rejected the RKS System and went berserk. After being subdued, the three Type: Full were given limiter helmets to lessen the effects of the RKS System's rejection and were put into permanent cryogenic stasis, and the "Beast Killer" project was deemed a failure. Afterward, they were deemed failures and their name changed to Type: Null. At some point before the events of Sun and Moon, [[Gladion]] was able to free one of the Type: Null, which he adopted as his own in the hopes of finding a way to undo the effects of the limiter helmet and allow it to use the RKS System.
{{Endspoilers}}


==Game data==
===Pokédex entries===
{{Dex/Header|type=Normal}}
{{Dex/NA|gen=VII}}
{{Dex/Gen|gen=VII}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=Sun|entry=The heavy control mask it wears suppresses its intrinsic capabilities. This Pokémon has some hidden special power.}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=Moon|entry=Due to the danger that this synthetic Pokémon may go on a rampage, it wears a control mask to restrain its power.}}
|}
|}
{{Dex/Footer}}

===Game locations===
{{Availability/Header|type=Normal}}
{{Availability/NA|gen=VII}}
{{Availability/Gen|gen=VII}}
{{Availability/Entry2|v=Sun|v2=Moon|area=[[List of in-game event Pokémon in Generation VII|Received]] from [[Gladion]] at [[Aether Paradise]] after becoming {{pkmn|Champion}}}}
|}
|}
{{Availability/Footer}}

====In side games====

===Held items===
===Stats===
====Base stats====
{{Stats
|type=Normal
|HP=95
|Attack=95
|Defense=95
|SpAtk=95
|SpDef=95
|Speed=59}}

===Type effectiveness===
{{TypeEffectiveness
|type1=Normal
|Normal=100
|Fighting=200
|Flying=100
|Poison=100
|Ground=100
|Rock=100
|Bug=100
|Ghost=0
|Steel=100
|Fire=100
|Water=100
|Grass=100
|Electric=100
|Psychic=100
|Ice=100
|Dragon=100
|Dark=100
|Fairy=100
|notes=yes
|normal=yes
|newghost=1}}

===Learnset===
====By [[Level|leveling up]]====
{{learnlist/levelh/7|Type: Null|Normal|Normal|7}}
{{learnlist/level7|1|Tackle|Normal|Physical|40|100|35||'''}}
{{learnlist/level7|5|Rage|Normal|Physical|20|100|20||'''}}
{{learnlist/level7|10|Pursuit|Dark|Physical|40|100|20}}
{{learnlist/level7|15|Imprison|Psychic|Status|—|—|10}}
{{learnlist/level7|20|Aerial Ace|Flying|Physical|60|—|20}}
{{learnlist/level7|25|Crush Claw|Normal|Physical|75|95|10||'''}}
{{learnlist/level7|30|Scary Face|Normal|Status|—|100|10}}
{{learnlist/level7|35|X-Scissor|Bug|Physical|80|100|15}}
{{learnlist/level7|40|Take Down|Normal|Physical|90|85|20||'''}}
{{learnlist/level7|45|Metal Sound|Steel|Status|—|85|40}}
{{learnlist/level7|50|Iron Head|Steel|Physical|80|100|15}}
{{learnlist/level7|55|Double Hit|Normal|Physical|35|90|10||'''}}
{{learnlist/level7|60|Air Slash|Flying|Special|75|95|15}}
{{learnlist/level7|65|Punishment|Dark|Physical|—|100|5}}
{{learnlist/level7|70|Razor Wind|Normal|Special|80|100|10||'''}}
{{learnlist/level7|75|Tri Attack|Normal|Special|80|100|10||'''}}
{{learnlist/level7|80|Double-Edge|Normal|Physical|120|100|15||'''}}
{{learnlist/level7|85|Heal Block|Psychic|Status|—|100|15}}
{{learnlist/levelf/7|Type: Null|Normal|Normal|7}}

====By [[TM]]/[[HM]]====
{{learnlist/tmh/7|Type: Null|Normal|Normal|7}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM01|Work Up|Normal|Status|—|—|30}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM02|Dragon Claw|Dragon|Physical|80|100|15}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM05|Roar|Normal|Status|—|—|20}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM06|Toxic|Poison|Status|—|90|10}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM07|Hail|Ice|Status|—|—|10}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM10|Hidden Power|Normal|Special|60|100|15}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM11|Sunny Day|Fire|Status|—|—|5}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM17|Protect|Normal|Status|—|—|10}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM18|Rain Dance|Water|Status|—|—|5}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM21|Frustration|Normal|Physical|—|100|20||'''}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM27|Return|Normal|Physical|—|100|20||'''}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM32|Double Team|Normal|Status|—|—|15}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM37|Sandstorm|Rock|Status|—|—|10}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM40|Aerial Ace|Flying|Physical|60|—|20}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM42|Facade|Normal|Physical|70|100|20||'''}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM43|Flame Charge|Fire|Physical|50|100|20}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM44|Rest|Psychic|Status|—|—|10}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM48|Round|Normal|Special|60|100|15||'''}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM65|Shadow Claw|Ghost|Physical|70|100|15}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM66|Payback|Dark|Physical|50|100|10}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM68|Giga Impact|Normal|Physical|150|90|5||'''}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM73|Thunder Wave|Electric|Status|—|90|20}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM75|Swords Dance|Normal|Status|—|—|20}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM80|Rock Slide|Rock|Physical|75|90|10}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM81|X-Scissor|Bug|Physical|80|100|15}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM87|Swagger|Normal|Status|—|85|15}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM88|Sleep Talk|Normal|Status|—|—|10}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM89|U-turn|Bug|Physical|70|100|20}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM90|Substitute|Normal|Status|—|—|10}}
{{learnlist/tm7|TM100|Confide|Normal|Status|—|—|20}}
{{learnlist/tmf/7|Type: Null|Normal|Normal|7}}

====By {{pkmn|breeding}}====
{{Learnlist/breedh/7|Type: Null|Normal|Normal|7}}
{{Learnlist/breed7null}}
{{Learnlist/breedf/7|Type: Null|Normal|Normal|7}}

====By [[Move Tutor|tutoring]]====
{{learnlist/tutorh/7|Type: Null|Normal|Normal|7}}
{{learnlist/tutor7null}}
{{learnlist/tutorf/7|Type: Null|Normal|Normal|7}}


===Evolution===
{{Evobox-2
|type1=Normal
|pictype=art
|no1=772
|name1=Type: Null
|type1-1=Normal
|evo1={{bag|Soothe Bell}} {{color2|000|Friendship}}
|no2=773
|name2=Silvally
|type1-2=Normal}}


==Trivia==
* Type: Null is the only Pokémon whose Italian and Spanish names differ from its English name.
* Type: Null has the highest base stat total of all Pokémon that are able to evolve.
* Type: Null shares several similarities with {{p|Mewtwo}}. Both were created by humans using science, were intended to be stronger than other Pokémon, and escaped from their confines and caused a large amount of damage.

===Origin===
Type: Null appears to be based on a {{wp|Chimera (mythology)|chimera}}. Its history and patchwork design may also be a reference to {{wp|Frankenstein's Monster}}, and its wooden collar may reference the ring encircling {{p|Arceus}}.

====Name origin====
Type: Null is literally ''[[type]]'' and ''null'' (nothing).

Type: Full is literally ''type'' and ''full'' (everything).

==In other languages==
{{Other languages|type=Normal|type2=Normal
|ja=タイプ：ヌル ''Type: Null''|jameaning=From ''type'' and ''null''
|fr=Type:0|frmeaning=From ''type'' and {{tt|''0''|zero}}
|es=Código Cero|esmeaning=From {{tt|''código''|code}} and {{tt|''cero''|zero}}
|de=Typ:Null|demeaning=From {{tt|''Typ''|type}} and {{tt|''Null''|zero}}
|it=Tipo Zero|itmeaning=From {{tt|''tipo''|type}} and ''zero''
|ko=타입:널 ''Type: Null''|komeaning=Transliteration of Japanese name
|zh_cmn=屬性：空 / 属性：空 ''Shǔxìng: Kōng''|zh_cmnmeaning=From {{tt|屬性 / 属性 ''shǔxìng''|type}} and {{tt|空 ''kōng''|empty}}
|zh_yue=屬性：空 ''Suhksing: Hūng''|zh_yuemeaning=From {{tt|屬性 ''suhksing''|type}} and {{tt|空 ''hūng''|empty}}
|ru=Тип: Ноль ''Tip: Nol'''|rumeaning=From {{tt|тип ''tip''|type}} and {{tt|ноль ''nol'''|zero}}}}
{{-}}

''Type: Full''
{{langtable|color={{normal color}}|bordercolor={{normal color dark}}
|zh_cmn=屬性：滿 / 属性：满 ''Shǔxìng: Mǎn''
|zh_yue=屬性：滿 ''Suhksing: Múhn''
|fr=Type:18
|de=Typ:Full
|it=Omnitipo
|ko=타입:풀 ''Type: Full''
|es=Código Omnia}}
{{-}}

==Related articles==

==External links==
{{PokémonPrevNext/Head|type=Normal}}
{{PokémonPrevNext/Pokémon|type=Normal|prevnum=771|prev=Pyukumuku|nextnum=773|next=Silvally}}
|}
{{Project Pokédex notice}}

[[Category:Artificial Pokémon]]
[[Category:Pokémon that evolve by friendship]]

[[de:Typ:Null]]
[[fr:Type:0]]
[[it:Tipo Zero]]
[[ja:タイプ:ヌル]]
[[zh:属性：空]]

Flying (type)

2017-02-22T01:20:23Z

Felthry: The wording should be changed regardless, because what I initially got from that sentence was that it would have an effect similar to an inverse battle; that is, making rock be not very effective to flying.

{{Search|official type|the scrapped type in core Generation I and II games|List of glitch types#Bird|List of glitch types → Bird}}
{{Types}}
The '''Flying type''' (Japanese: '''ひこうタイプ''' ''Flying type'') is one of the eighteen [[type]]s. Notable Trainers who specialize in Flying-type Pokémon are the [[Gym Leader]]s [[Falkner]] of [[Violet City]], [[Winona]] of [[Fortree City]], [[Skyla]] of [[Mistralton City]], and [[Kahili]] of {{DL|Elite Four|Alola Elite Four}}. Prior to [[Generation IV#Advances in gameplay|changes in Generation IV]], all damaging Flying-type moves were [[physical move|physical]], but they may now also be [[special move|special]] depending on the attack.

==Statistical averages==
===Overall===
{{BaseStatNoCat|
type=flying|
HP=71.42 |
Attack=80.35 |
Defense=68.31 |
SpAtk=77.01 |
SpDef=70.91 |
Speed=85.50 |
Total=453.50 }}

===Fully evolved===
{{BaseStatNoCat|
type=flying|
HP=80.41 |
Attack=91.73 |
Defense=77.97 |
SpAtk=91.77 |
SpDef=80.57 |
Speed=94.84 |
Total=517.29 }}


==Battle properties==
===Generation I===
{{typebattle
|type=Flying
|weakto1=Electric
|weakto2=Ice
|weakto3=Rock
|resist1=Bug
|resist2=Fighting
|resist3=Grass
|weaken1=Bug
|weaken2=Fighting
|weaken3=Grass
|resisted1=Electric
|resisted2=Rock
|unaffected1=Ground
}}

===Generation II onwards===
Flying-type Pokémon are not considered [[grounded]] for effects that affect grounded Pokémon (e.g. [[entry hazards]]).
{{typebattle
|type=Flying
|weakto1=Electric
|weakto2=Ice
|weakto3=Rock
|resist1=Bug
|resist2=Fighting
|resist3=Grass
|weaken1=Bug
|weaken2=Fighting
|weaken3=Grass
|resisted1=Electric
|resisted2=Rock
|resisted3=Steel
|unaffected1=Ground
}}

==Characteristics==
===Defense===
Defensively, the Flying type is very useful for its immunity to the powerful {{type|Ground}} moves and its resistance to {{t|Fighting}}. However, many Flying types have a secondary type that is weak to Fighting, most notably {{t|Normal}}, making their resistance to the Fighting type ineffective. In addition, its weaknesses to {{t|Electric}}, {{t|Rock}}, and {{t|Ice}} are common. Almost all Flying types are dual-typed, thus making some vulnerable to double weaknesses. Flying-type Pokémon are also unaffected by all [[entry hazard]]s with exception of {{m|Stealth Rock}}, which inflicts damage to Flying types equal to at least a quarter of their HP unless they are also Ground-, Fighting-, or {{type|Steel}}.

Despite this, most Flying types have access to {{m|Roost}}, allowing them to restore their health and temporarily lose their Flying type. However, this also makes them vulnerable to Ground-type moves. If a pure Flying-type Pokémon uses Roost, then it will become a {{t|???}} type in [[Generation IV]] and a {{t|Normal}} type in [[Generation V]] onwards.

There is a [[Mysterious air current|special type of weather]] that can only be activated by the Ability {{a|Delta Stream}}. It causes moves that would be super effective against pure Flying-type Pokémon to deal damage to Flying-type Pokémon as though they were not flying type.

===Offense===
Offensively, Flying-type moves are usually only useful when benefited by [[same-type attack bonus]] and for their strength against the {{t|Fighting}} type, as well as advantages over {{t|Bug}} and {{t|Grass}} types. Most Flying types have above-average {{stat|Attack}} or {{stat|Special Attack}} and {{stat|Speed}} stats, making them potential offensive sweepers.

The Flying type pairs well with other fairly common attacking types, such as {{t|Ground}} and {{t|Fighting}}. As {{t|Dark}} and {{t|Ghost}}-type moves are no longer resisted by {{t|Steel}} in [[Generation VI]], the Flying-type pairs well with these two types. Most damaging Flying-type moves are also useful for being able to hit any opponent in [[Triple Battle]]s.

Flying-type Pokémon, on average, have the highest Speed of all Pokémon and of fully evolved Pokémon.

===Contest properties===
In {{pkmn|Contest}}s, Flying-type moves are typically {{OBP|Cool|condition}} moves.

==Pokémon==
As of Generation VII, there are 101 Flying-type Pokémon or 12.6% of all Pokémon (counting those that are Flying-type in at least one of their [[List of Pokémon with form differences|forms]]), making it the third most common type. Every other type has been paired up with the Flying type at least once.

===Pure Flying-type Pokémon===
{| class="roundy" style="margin:auto; background: #{{flying color light}}; border: 5px solid #{{flying color}};"
|-
|
{| border=1 width="100%" class="sortable" style="margin:auto; background: #FFFFFF; border:1px solid #{{flying color light}}; border-collapse:collapse;"
|-style="background: #{{flying color light}};"
! #
!
! Name
|-
| rowspan="2" |641
|{{MSP|641|Tornadus}}
|{{p|Tornadus}} [[List of Pokémon with form differences#Forces of Nature|Incarnate Forme]]
|-
|{{MSP|641T|Tornadus}}
|{{p|Tornadus}} [[List of Pokémon with form differences#Forces of Nature|Therian Forme]]
|}
|}

===Half Flying-type Pokémon===
====Primary Flying-type Pokémon====
{| class="roundy" style="margin:auto; background: #{{flying color light}}; border: 5px solid #{{flying color}};"
|-
|
{| border=1 width="100%" class="sortable" style="margin:auto; background: #FFFFFF; border:1px solid #{{flying color light}}; border-collapse:collapse;"
|-style="background: #{{flying color light}};"
! #
!
! Name
! Type 1
! Type 2
|-
|714
|{{MSP|714|Noibat}}
|{{p|Noibat}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
{{typetable|Dragon}}
|-
|715
|{{MSP|715|Noivern}}
|{{p|Noivern}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
{{typetable|Dragon}}
|}
|}

====Secondary Flying-type Pokémon====
{| class="roundy" style="margin:auto; background: #{{flying color light}}; border: 5px solid #{{flying color}};"
|-
|
{| border=1 width="100%" class="sortable" style="margin:auto; background: #FFFFFF; border:1px solid #{{flying color light}}; border-collapse:collapse;"
|-style="background: #{{flying color light}};"
! #
!
! Name
! Type 1
! Type 2
|-
| rowspan="2" |006
|{{MSP|006|Charizard}}
|{{p|Charizard}}
{{typetable|Fire}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|{{MSP|006MY|Charizard}}
|{{p|Charizard|Mega Charizard Y}}
{{typetable|Fire}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|012
|{{MSP|012|Butterfree}}
|{{p|Butterfree}}
{{typetable|Bug}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|016
|{{MSP|016|Pidgey}}
|{{p|Pidgey}}
{{typetable|Normal}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|017
|{{MSP|017|Pidgeotto}}
|{{p|Pidgeotto}}
{{typetable|Normal}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
| rowspan="2" |018
|{{MSP|018|Pidgeot}}
|{{p|Pidgeot}}
{{typetable|Normal}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|{{MSP|018M|Pidgeot}}
|{{p|Pidgeot|Mega Pidgeot}}
{{typetable|Normal}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|021
|{{MSP|021|Spearow}}
|{{p|Spearow}}
{{typetable|Normal}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|022
|{{MSP|022|Fearow}}
|{{p|Fearow}}
{{typetable|Normal}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|041
|{{MSP|041|Zubat}}
|{{p|Zubat}}
{{typetable|Poison}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|042
|{{MSP|042|Golbat}}
|{{p|Golbat}}
{{typetable|Poison}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|083
|{{MSP|083|Farfetch'd}}
|{{p|Farfetch'd}}
{{typetable|Normal}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|084
|{{MSP|084|Doduo}}
|{{p|Doduo}}
{{typetable|Normal}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|085
|{{MSP|085|Dodrio}}
|{{p|Dodrio}}
{{typetable|Normal}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|123
|{{MSP|123|Scyther}}
|{{p|Scyther}}
{{typetable|Bug}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|127
|{{MSP|127M|Pinsir}}
|{{p|Pinsir|Mega Pinsir}}
{{typetable|Bug}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|130
|{{MSP|130|Gyarados}}
|{{p|Gyarados}}
{{typetable|Water}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
| rowspan="2" |142
|{{MSP|142|Aerodactyl}}
|{{p|Aerodactyl}}
{{typetable|Rock}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|{{MSP|142M|Aerodactyl}}
|{{p|Aerodactyl|Mega Aerodactyl}}
{{typetable|Rock}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|144
|{{MSP|144|Articuno}}
|{{p|Articuno}}
{{typetable|Ice}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|145
|{{MSP|145|Zapdos}}
|{{p|Zapdos}}
{{typetable|Electric}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|146
|{{MSP|146|Moltres}}
|{{p|Moltres}}
{{typetable|Fire}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|149
|{{MSP|149|Dragonite}}
|{{p|Dragonite}}
{{typetable|Dragon}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|163
|{{MSP|163|Hoothoot}}
|{{p|Hoothoot}}
{{typetable|Normal}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|164
|{{MSP|164|Noctowl}}
|{{p|Noctowl}}
{{typetable|Normal}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|165
|{{MSP|165|Ledyba}}
|{{p|Ledyba}}
{{typetable|Bug}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|166
|{{MSP|166|Ledian}}
|{{p|Ledian}}
{{typetable|Bug}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|169
|{{MSP|169|Crobat}}
|{{p|Crobat}}
{{typetable|Poison}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|176
|{{MSP|176|Togetic}}
|{{p|Togetic}}{{tt|*|Normal/Flying-type in Generations II-V}}
{{typetable|Fairy}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|177
|{{MSP|177|Natu}}
|{{p|Natu}}
{{typetable|Psychic}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|178
|{{MSP|178|Xatu}}
|{{p|Xatu}}
{{typetable|Psychic}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|187
|{{MSP|187|Hoppip}}
|{{p|Hoppip}}
{{typetable|Grass}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|188
|{{MSP|188|Skiploom}}
|{{p|Skiploom}}
{{typetable|Grass}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|189
|{{MSP|189|Jumpluff}}
|{{p|Jumpluff}}
{{typetable|Grass}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|193
|{{MSP|193|Yanma}}
|{{p|Yanma}}
{{typetable|Bug}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|198
|{{MSP|198|Murkrow}}
|{{p|Murkrow}}
{{typetable|Dark}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|207
|{{MSP|207|Gligar}}
|{{p|Gligar}}
{{typetable|Ground}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|225
|{{MSP|225|Delibird}}
|{{p|Delibird}}
{{typetable|Ice}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|226
|{{MSP|226|Mantine}}
|{{p|Mantine}}
{{typetable|Water}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|227
|{{MSP|227|Skarmory}}
|{{p|Skarmory}}
{{typetable|Steel}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|249
|{{MSP|249|Lugia}}
|{{p|Lugia}}
{{typetable|Psychic}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|250
|{{MSP|250|Ho-Oh}}
|{{p|Ho-Oh}}
{{typetable|Fire}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|267
|{{MSP|267|Beautifly}}
|{{p|Beautifly}}
{{typetable|Bug}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|276
|{{MSP|276|Taillow}}
|{{p|Taillow}}
{{typetable|Normal}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|277
|{{MSP|277|Swellow}}
|{{p|Swellow}}
{{typetable|Normal}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|278
|{{MSP|278|Wingull}}
|{{p|Wingull}}
{{typetable|Water}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|279
|{{MSP|279|Pelipper}}
|{{p|Pelipper}}
{{typetable|Water}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|284
|{{MSP|284|Masquerain}}
|{{p|Masquerain}}
{{typetable|Bug}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|291
|{{MSP|291|Ninjask}}
|{{p|Ninjask}}
{{typetable|Bug}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|333
|{{MSP|333|Swablu}}
|{{p|Swablu}}
{{typetable|Normal}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|334
|{{MSP|334|Altaria}}
|{{p|Altaria}}
{{typetable|Dragon}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|357
|{{MSP|357|Tropius}}
|{{p|Tropius}}
{{typetable|Grass}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
| rowspan="2" |373
|{{MSP|373|Salamence}}
|{{p|Salamence}}
{{typetable|Dragon}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|{{MSP|373M|Salamence}}
|{{p|Salamence|Mega Salamence}}
{{typetable|Dragon}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
| rowspan="2" |384
|{{MSP|384|Rayquaza}}
|{{p|Rayquaza}}
{{typetable|Dragon}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|{{MSP|384M|Rayquaza}}
|{{p|Rayquaza|Mega Rayquaza}}
{{typetable|Dragon}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|396
|{{MSP|396|Starly}}
|{{p|Starly}}
{{typetable|Normal}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|397
|{{MSP|397|Staravia}}
|{{p|Staravia}}
{{typetable|Normal}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|398
|{{MSP|398|Staraptor}}
|{{p|Staraptor}}
{{typetable|Normal}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|414
|{{MSP|414|Mothim}}
|{{p|Mothim}}
{{typetable|Bug}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|415
|{{MSP|415|Combee}}
|{{p|Combee}}
{{typetable|Bug}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|416
|{{MSP|416|Vespiquen}}
|{{p|Vespiquen}}
{{typetable|Bug}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|425
|{{MSP|425|Drifloon}}
|{{p|Drifloon}}
{{typetable|Ghost}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|426
|{{MSP|426|Drifblim}}
|{{p|Drifblim}}
{{typetable|Ghost}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|430
|{{MSP|430|Honchkrow}}
|{{p|Honchkrow}}
{{typetable|Dark}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|441
|{{MSP|441|Chatot}}
|{{p|Chatot}}
{{typetable|Normal}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|458
|{{MSP|458|Mantyke}}
|{{p|Mantyke}}
{{typetable|Water}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|468
|{{MSP|468|Togekiss}}
|{{p|Togekiss}}{{tt|*|Normal/Flying-type in Generations IV-V}}
{{typetable|Fairy}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|469
|{{MSP|469|Yanmega}}
|{{p|Yanmega}}
{{typetable|Bug}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|472
|{{MSP|472|Gliscor}}
|{{p|Gliscor}}
{{typetable|Ground}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|479
|{{MSP|479F|Rotom}}
|{{p|Rotom|Fan Rotom}}{{tt|*|Electric/Ghost-type in Generation IV}}
{{typetable|Electric}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|492
|{{MSP|492S|Shaymin}}
|{{p|Shaymin}} [[List of Pokémon with form differences#Shaymin|Sky Forme]]
{{typetable|Grass}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|519
|{{MSP|519|Pidove}}
|{{p|Pidove}}
{{typetable|Normal}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|520
|{{MSP|520|Tranquill}}
|{{p|Tranquill}}
{{typetable|Normal}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|521
|{{MSP|521{{#ifexpr: ({{#time: H}} mod 2) = 0||F}}|Unfezant}}
|{{p|Unfezant}}
{{typetable|Normal}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|527
|{{MSP|527|Woobat}}
|{{p|Woobat}}
{{typetable|Psychic}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|528
|{{MSP|528|Swoobat}}
|{{p|Swoobat}}
{{typetable|Psychic}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|561
|{{MSP|561|Sigilyph}}
|{{p|Sigilyph}}
{{typetable|Psychic}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|566
|{{MSP|566|Archen}}
|{{p|Archen}}
{{typetable|Rock}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|567
|{{MSP|567|Archeops}}
|{{p|Archeops}}
{{typetable|Rock}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|580
|{{MSP|580|Ducklett}}
|{{p|Ducklett}}
{{typetable|Water}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|581
|{{MSP|581|Swanna}}
|{{p|Swanna}}
{{typetable|Water}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|587
|{{MSP|587|Emolga}}
|{{p|Emolga}}
{{typetable|Electric}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|627
|{{MSP|627|Rufflet}}
|{{p|Rufflet}}
{{typetable|Normal}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|628
|{{MSP|628|Braviary}}
|{{p|Braviary}}
{{typetable|Normal}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|629
|{{MSP|629|Vullaby}}
|{{p|Vullaby}}
{{typetable|Dark}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|630
|{{MSP|630|Mandibuzz}}
|{{p|Mandibuzz}}
{{typetable|Dark}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
| rowspan="2" |642
|{{MSP|642|Thundurus}}
|{{p|Thundurus}} [[List of Pokémon with form differences#Forces of Nature|Incarnate Forme]]
{{typetable|Electric}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|{{MSP|642T|Thundurus}}
|{{p|Thundurus}} [[List of Pokémon with form differences#Forces of Nature|Therian Forme]]
{{typetable|Electric}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
| rowspan="2" |645
|{{MSP|645|Landorus}}
|{{p|Landorus}} [[List of Pokémon with form differences#Forces of Nature|Incarnate Forme]]
{{typetable|Ground}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|{{MSP|645T|Landorus}}
|{{p|Landorus}} [[List of Pokémon with form differences#Forces of Nature|Therian Forme]]
{{typetable|Ground}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|661
|{{MSP|661|Fletchling}}
|{{p|Fletchling}}
{{typetable|Normal}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|662
|{{MSP|662|Fletchinder}}
|{{p|Fletchinder}}
{{typetable|Fire}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|663
|{{MSP|663|Talonflame}}
|{{p|Talonflame}}
{{typetable|Fire}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|666
|{{MSP|666|Vivillon}}
|{{p|Vivillon}}
{{typetable|Bug}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|701
|{{MSP|701|Hawlucha}}
|{{p|Hawlucha}}
{{typetable|Fighting}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|717
|{{MSP|717|Yveltal}}
|{{p|Yveltal}}
{{typetable|Dark}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|722
|{{MSP|722|Rowlet}}
|{{p|Rowlet}}
{{typetable|Grass}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|723
|{{MSP|723|Dartrix}}
|{{p|Dartrix}}
{{typetable|Grass}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|731
|{{MSP|731|Pikipek}}
|{{p|Pikipek}}
{{typetable|Normal}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|732
|{{MSP|732|Trumbeak}}
|{{p|Trumbeak}}
{{typetable|Normal}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|733
|{{MSP|733|Toucannon}}
|{{p|Toucannon}}
{{typetable|Normal}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
| rowspan="4" |741
|{{MSP|741|Oricorio}}
|{{p|Oricorio}} [[List of Pokémon with form differences#Oricorio|Baile Style]]
{{typetable|Fire}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|{{MSP|741Po|Oricorio}}
|{{p|Oricorio}} [[List of Pokémon with form differences#Oricorio|Pom-Pom Style]]
{{typetable|Electric}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|{{MSP|741Pa|Oricorio}}
|{{p|Oricorio}} [[List of Pokémon with form differences#Oricorio|Pa'u Style]]
{{typetable|Psychic}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|{{MSP|741Se|Oricorio}}
|{{p|Oricorio}} [[List of Pokémon with form differences#Oricorio|Sensu Style]]
{{typetable|Ghost}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|774
|{{MSP|774|Minior}}
|{{p|Minior}}
{{typetable|Rock}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|797
|{{MSP|797|Celesteela}}
|{{p|Celesteela}}
{{typetable|Steel}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|}
|}

====Pokéstar Studios opponents====
{| class="roundy" style="margin:auto; background: #{{flying color light}}; border: 5px solid #{{flying color}};"
|-
|
{| border=1 width="100%" class="unsortable" style="margin:auto; background: #FFFFFF; border:1px solid #{{flying color light}}; border-collapse:collapse;"
|- style="background: #{{flying color light}};"
! #
!
! Name
! Type 1
! Type 2
|-
|N/A
|{{MSP|000|UFO}}
|{{p|UFO}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
{{typetable|Electric}}
|}
|}

==Moves==
{{movelist/battle-head|Flying}}
{{movelist/battle|5|Acrobatics|Physical|Cool|55|100|15|any|The user nimbly strikes the target. If the user is not holding an item, this attack inflicts massive damage.}}
{{movelist/battle|3|Aerial Ace|Physical|Cool|60|—|20|any|The user confounds the target with speed, then slashes. This attack never misses.}}
{{movelist/battle|2|Aeroblast|Special|Cool|100|95|5|any|A vortex of air is shot at the target to inflict damage. Critical hits land more easily.}}
{{movelist/battle|3|Air Cutter|Special|Cool|60|95|25|adjacentfoes|The user launches razor-like wind to slash the opposing Pokémon. Critical hits land more easily.}}
{{movelist/battle|4|Air Slash|Special|Cool|75|95|15|any|The user attacks with a blade of air that slices even the sky. This may also make the target flinch.}}
{{movelist/battle|7|Beak Blast|Physical||100|100|15|anyadjacent|The user first heats up its beak, and then it attacks the target. Making direct contact with the Pokémon while it's heating up its beak results in a burn.}}
{{movelist/battle|3|Bounce|Physical|Cute|85|85|5|any|The user bounces up high, then drops on the target on the second turn. This may also leave the target with paralysis.}}
{{movelist/battle|4|Brave Bird|Physical|Cool|120|100|15|any|The user tucks in its wings and charges from a low altitude. This also damages the user quite a lot.}}
{{movelist/battle|4|Chatter|Special|Cute|65|100|20|any|The user attacks the target with sound waves of deafening chatter. This confuses the target.}}
{{movelist/battle|4|Defog|Status|Cool|—|—|15|anyadjacent|A strong wind blows away the target's barriers such as Reflect or Light Screen. This also lowers the target's evasiveness.}}
{{movelist/battle|6|Dragon Ascent|Physical|Beautiful|120|100|5|any|After soaring upward, the user attacks its target by dropping out of the sky at high speeds. But it lowers its own Defense and Sp. Def stats in the process.}}
{{movelist/battle|1|Drill Peck|Physical|Cool|80|100|20|any|A corkscrewing attack with a sharp beak acting as a drill.}}
{{movelist/battle|3|Feather Dance|Status|Beautiful|—|100|15|anyadjacent|The user covers the target's body with a mass of down that harshly lowers its Attack stat.}}
{{movelist/battle|1|Fly|Physical|Clever|90|95|15|any|The user soars and then strikes its target on the next turn.}}
{{movelist/battle|1|Gust|Special|Clever|40|100|35|any|A gust of wind is whipped up by wings and launched at the target to inflict damage.}}
{{movelist/battle|5|Hurricane|Special|Tough|110|70|10|any|The user attacks by wrapping its opponent in a fierce wind that flies up into the sky. This may also confuse the target.}}
{{movelist/battle|1|Mirror Move|Status|Clever|—|—|20|anyadjacent|The user counters the target by mimicking the target's last move.}}
{{movelist/battle|6|Oblivion Wing|Special|Cool|80|100|10|any|The user absorbs its target's HP. The user's HP is restored by over half of the damage taken by the target.}}
{{movelist/battle|1|Peck|Physical|Cool|35|100|35|any|The target is jabbed with a sharply pointed beak or horn.}}
{{movelist/battle|4|Pluck|Physical|Cute|60|100|20|any|The user pecks the target. If the target is holding a Berry, the user eats it and gains its effect.}}
{{movelist/battle|4|Roost|Status|Clever|—|—|10|self|The user lands and rests its body. It restores the user's HP by up to half of its max HP.}}
{{movelist/battle|1|Sky Attack|Physical|Cool|140|90|5|any|A second-turn attack move where critical hits land more easily. This may also make the target flinch.}}
{{movelist/battle|5|Sky Drop|Physical|Tough|60|100|10|any|The user takes the target into the sky, then drops it during the next turn. The target cannot attack while in the sky.}}
{{movelist/battle|7|Supersonic Skystrike|Physical||—|—|1|anyadjacent|The user soars up with its Z-Power and plummets toward the target at full speed. The power varies, depending on the original move.}}
{{movelist/battle|7|Supersonic Skystrike|Special||—|—|1|anyadjacent|The user soars up with its Z-Power and plummets toward the target at full speed. The power varies, depending on the original move.}}
{{movelist/battle|4|Tailwind|Status|Cool|—|—|15|team|The user whips up a turbulent whirlwind that ups the Speed stat of the user and its allies for four turns.}}
{{movelist/battle|1|Wing Attack|Physical|Cool|60|100|35|any|The target is struck with large, imposing wings spread wide to inflict damage.}}
{{movelist/battle-foot|Flying}}

==Abilities==
===Interacting with the Flying type===
A Pokémon with {{a|Color Change}}, {{a|Protean}}, {{a|Imposter}}, {{a|RKS System}}, or {{a|Multitype}} will become a Flying-type Pokémon if (respectively) it is hit with a Flying-type move, uses a Flying-type move, is sent out against a Flying-type opponent, is holding a {{DL|Memory|Flying Memory}}, or is holding a {{DL|Plate|Sky Plate}} or {{DL|Z-Crystal|Flyinium Z}}.

{| width="70%" class="roundy sortable" style="margin:auto; text-align:center; background:#{{flying color}}; border: 2px solid #{{flying color dark}}"
|-
! style="background:#{{flying color light}}; {{roundytl|8px}}" | Gen
! style="background:#{{flying color light}};" | Ability
! style="background:#{{flying color light}}; {{roundytr|8px}}" class="unsortable" | Description
|-
! width="30px" style="background:#{{kalos color}}; border: 1px solid #{{kalos color dark}}" | VI
| width="100px" style="background:#FFF; border: 1px solid #D8D8D8" | {{acolor|Aerilate|000}}
| style="background:#FFF; border: 1px solid #D8D8D8; text-align:left;" | Normal-type moves become Flying-type moves.
|-
! width="30px" style="background:#{{kalos color}}; border: 1px solid #{{kalos color dark}}" | VI
| width="100px" style="background:#FFF; border: 1px solid #D8D8D8" | {{acolor|Delta Stream|000}}
| style="background:#FFF; border: 1px solid #D8D8D8; text-align:left;" | Nullifies weather conditions, moves, and abilities. Super-effective moves against Flying-types become normally effective.
|-
! width="30px" style="background:#{{kalos color}}; border: 1px solid #{{kalos color dark}}" | VI
| width="100px" style="background:#FFF; border: 1px solid #D8D8D8" | {{acolor|Gale Wings|000}}
| style="background:#FFF; border: 1px solid #D8D8D8; text-align:left;" | Gives priority to Flying-type moves when HP is full.
|- class="unsortable"
! colspan="3" style="background:#{{flying color light}}; {{roundybottom|8px}}" |All details are accurate to Generation VII games. For details that have changed between generations, please see an individual Ability's page.
|}

===Exclusive Abilities===
Only Flying-type Pokémon can have these Abilities. This does not include [[Signature Ability|signature Abilities]].
{| width="70%" class="roundy sortable" style="margin:auto; text-align:center; background:#{{flying color}}; border: 2px solid #{{flying color dark}}"
|-
! style="background:#{{flying color light}}; {{roundytl|8px}}" | Gen
! style="background:#{{flying color light}};" | Ability
! style="background:#{{flying color light}}; {{roundytr|8px}}" class="unsortable" | Description
|-
! width="30px" style="background:#{{kalos color}}; border: 1px solid #{{kalos color dark}}" | VI
| width="100px" style="background:#FFFFFF; border: 1px solid #D8D8D8" | {{acolor|Aerilate|000}}
| style="background:#FFFFFF; border: 1px solid #D8D8D8; text-align:left;" | Normal-type moves become Flying-type moves.
|-
! width="30px" style="background:#{{unova color}}; border: 1px solid #{{unova color dark}}" | V
| width="100px" style="background:#FFFFFF; border: 1px solid #D8D8D8" | {{acolor|Big Pecks|000}}
| style="background:#FFFFFF; border: 1px solid #D8D8D8; text-align:left;" | Protects the Pokémon from Defense-lowering attacks.
|-
! width="30px" style="background:#{{unova color}}; border: 1px solid #{{unova color dark}}" | V
| width="100px" style="background:#FFFFFF; border: 1px solid #D8D8D8" | {{acolor|Multiscale|000}}
| style="background:#FFFFFF; border: 1px solid #D8D8D8; text-align:left;" | Reduces damage the Pokémon takes when its HP is full.
|-
! colspan="3" style="background:#{{flying color light}}; {{roundybottom|8px}}" |All details are accurate to Generation VI games. For details that have changed between generations, please see an individual Ability's page.
|}

==Trivia==
* Generations {{Gen|I}}, {{Gen|II}}, and {{Gen|V}} introduced more Flying-type Pokémon than any other generation, each with {{tt|19|including Rotom's Fan form in Gen V}}. [[Generation VI]] and [[Generation VII]] introduced the fewest Flying-type Pokémon, with eight.
* Generations I and {{Gen|IV}} introduced more Flying-type moves than any other generation, with seven. Generation II introduced the fewest Flying-type moves, with only {{m|Aeroblast|one}}.
* Prior to Generation V, Flying was the only Pokémon type for which there were no single type Pokémon.
* Prior to Generation VI, Flying was the only Pokémon type for which there was no dual type Pokémon with the type as its primary type.
* Normal is the most common type paired with Flying.

==In other languages==
{{langtable|color={{flying color}}|bordercolor={{flying color light}}
|ja=ひこう (飛行) ''Hikou''
|zh_yue=飛行 ''{{tt|Fēihàhng|Flying}}''
|zh_cmn=飛行 / 飞行 ''{{tt|Fēixíng|Flying}}''
|cs=Létající
|da=Flyve
|nl=Vliegsoort
|fi=Lento
|fr=Vol
|de=Flug
|el=Ιπτάμενος ''Iptámenos''
|he=מעופף ''Meofef''
|hu=Repülő
|id=Terbang
|it=Volante
|ko=비행 ''Bihaeng''
|no=Flyvende Flyr
|pl=Latający
|pt=Voador
|ro=Zbor
|ru=Летающий ''Letayushchiy''
|es=Volador
|sv=Flygande Flyga
|th=บิน ''bin''
|vi=Bay
}}

[[de:Flug]]
[[fr:Vol (type)]]
[[it:Volante (tipo)]]
[[ja:ひこう]]
[[pl:Lot (typ)]]
[[zh:飞行（属性）]]

Flying (type)

2017-02-21T14:29:01Z

Felthry: /* Defense */ clarified confusing wording

{{Search|official type|the scrapped type in core Generation I and II games|List of glitch types#Bird|List of glitch types → Bird}}
{{Types}}
The '''Flying type''' (Japanese: '''ひこうタイプ''' ''Flying type'') is one of the eighteen [[type]]s. Notable Trainers who specialize in Flying-type Pokémon are the [[Gym Leader]]s [[Falkner]] of [[Violet City]], [[Winona]] of [[Fortree City]], [[Skyla]] of [[Mistralton City]], and [[Kahili]] of {{DL|Elite Four|Alola Elite Four}}. Prior to [[Generation IV#Advances in gameplay|changes in Generation IV]], all damaging Flying-type moves were [[physical move|physical]], but they may now also be [[special move|special]] depending on the attack.

==Statistical averages==
===Overall===
{{BaseStatNoCat|
type=flying|
HP=71.42 |
Attack=80.35 |
Defense=68.31 |
SpAtk=77.01 |
SpDef=70.91 |
Speed=85.50 |
Total=453.50 }}

===Fully evolved===
{{BaseStatNoCat|
type=flying|
HP=80.41 |
Attack=91.73 |
Defense=77.97 |
SpAtk=91.77 |
SpDef=80.57 |
Speed=94.84 |
Total=517.29 }}


==Battle properties==
===Generation I===
{{typebattle
|type=Flying
|weakto1=Electric
|weakto2=Ice
|weakto3=Rock
|resist1=Bug
|resist2=Fighting
|resist3=Grass
|weaken1=Bug
|weaken2=Fighting
|weaken3=Grass
|resisted1=Electric
|resisted2=Rock
|unaffected1=Ground
}}

===Generation II onwards===
Flying-type Pokémon are not considered [[grounded]] for effects that affect grounded Pokémon (e.g. [[entry hazards]]).
{{typebattle
|type=Flying
|weakto1=Electric
|weakto2=Ice
|weakto3=Rock
|resist1=Bug
|resist2=Fighting
|resist3=Grass
|weaken1=Bug
|weaken2=Fighting
|weaken3=Grass
|resisted1=Electric
|resisted2=Rock
|resisted3=Steel
|unaffected1=Ground
}}

==Characteristics==
===Defense===
Defensively, the Flying type is very useful for its immunity to the powerful {{type|Ground}} moves and its resistance to {{t|Fighting}}. However, many Flying types have a secondary type that is weak to Fighting, most notably {{t|Normal}}, making their resistance to the Fighting type ineffective. In addition, its weaknesses to {{t|Electric}}, {{t|Rock}}, and {{t|Ice}} are common. Almost all Flying types are dual-typed, thus making some vulnerable to double weaknesses. Flying-type Pokémon are also unaffected by all [[entry hazard]]s with exception of {{m|Stealth Rock}}, which inflicts damage to Flying types equal to at least a quarter of their HP unless they are also Ground-, Fighting-, or {{type|Steel}}.

Despite this, most Flying types have access to {{m|Roost}}, allowing them to restore their health and temporarily lose their Flying type. However, this also makes them vulnerable to Ground-type moves. If a pure Flying-type Pokémon uses Roost, then it will become a {{t|???}} type in [[Generation IV]] and a {{t|Normal}} type in [[Generation V]] onwards.

There is a [[Mysterious air current|special type of weather]] that can only be activated by the Ability {{a|Delta Stream}}. It causes moves that would be super effective against pure Flying-type Pokémon to deal neutral damage to all Flying-type Pokémon.

===Offense===
Offensively, Flying-type moves are usually only useful when benefited by [[same-type attack bonus]] and for their strength against the {{t|Fighting}} type, as well as advantages over {{t|Bug}} and {{t|Grass}} types. Most Flying types have above-average {{stat|Attack}} or {{stat|Special Attack}} and {{stat|Speed}} stats, making them potential offensive sweepers.

The Flying type pairs well with other fairly common attacking types, such as {{t|Ground}} and {{t|Fighting}}. As {{t|Dark}} and {{t|Ghost}}-type moves are no longer resisted by {{t|Steel}} in [[Generation VI]], the Flying-type pairs well with these two types. Most damaging Flying-type moves are also useful for being able to hit any opponent in [[Triple Battle]]s.

Flying-type Pokémon, on average, have the highest Speed of all Pokémon and of fully evolved Pokémon.

===Contest properties===
In {{pkmn|Contest}}s, Flying-type moves are typically {{OBP|Cool|condition}} moves.

==Pokémon==
As of Generation VII, there are 101 Flying-type Pokémon or 12.6% of all Pokémon (counting those that are Flying-type in at least one of their [[List of Pokémon with form differences|forms]]), making it the third most common type. Every other type has been paired up with the Flying type at least once.

===Pure Flying-type Pokémon===
{| class="roundy" style="margin:auto; background: #{{flying color light}}; border: 5px solid #{{flying color}};"
|-
|
{| border=1 width="100%" class="sortable" style="margin:auto; background: #FFFFFF; border:1px solid #{{flying color light}}; border-collapse:collapse;"
|-style="background: #{{flying color light}};"
! #
!
! Name
|-
| rowspan="2" |641
|{{MSP|641|Tornadus}}
|{{p|Tornadus}} [[List of Pokémon with form differences#Forces of Nature|Incarnate Forme]]
|-
|{{MSP|641T|Tornadus}}
|{{p|Tornadus}} [[List of Pokémon with form differences#Forces of Nature|Therian Forme]]
|}
|}

===Half Flying-type Pokémon===
====Primary Flying-type Pokémon====
{| class="roundy" style="margin:auto; background: #{{flying color light}}; border: 5px solid #{{flying color}};"
|-
|
{| border=1 width="100%" class="sortable" style="margin:auto; background: #FFFFFF; border:1px solid #{{flying color light}}; border-collapse:collapse;"
|-style="background: #{{flying color light}};"
! #
!
! Name
! Type 1
! Type 2
|-
|714
|{{MSP|714|Noibat}}
|{{p|Noibat}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
{{typetable|Dragon}}
|-
|715
|{{MSP|715|Noivern}}
|{{p|Noivern}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
{{typetable|Dragon}}
|}
|}

====Secondary Flying-type Pokémon====
{| class="roundy" style="margin:auto; background: #{{flying color light}}; border: 5px solid #{{flying color}};"
|-
|
{| border=1 width="100%" class="sortable" style="margin:auto; background: #FFFFFF; border:1px solid #{{flying color light}}; border-collapse:collapse;"
|-style="background: #{{flying color light}};"
! #
!
! Name
! Type 1
! Type 2
|-
| rowspan="2" |006
|{{MSP|006|Charizard}}
|{{p|Charizard}}
{{typetable|Fire}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|{{MSP|006MY|Charizard}}
|{{p|Charizard|Mega Charizard Y}}
{{typetable|Fire}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|012
|{{MSP|012|Butterfree}}
|{{p|Butterfree}}
{{typetable|Bug}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|016
|{{MSP|016|Pidgey}}
|{{p|Pidgey}}
{{typetable|Normal}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|017
|{{MSP|017|Pidgeotto}}
|{{p|Pidgeotto}}
{{typetable|Normal}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
| rowspan="2" |018
|{{MSP|018|Pidgeot}}
|{{p|Pidgeot}}
{{typetable|Normal}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|{{MSP|018M|Pidgeot}}
|{{p|Pidgeot|Mega Pidgeot}}
{{typetable|Normal}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|021
|{{MSP|021|Spearow}}
|{{p|Spearow}}
{{typetable|Normal}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|022
|{{MSP|022|Fearow}}
|{{p|Fearow}}
{{typetable|Normal}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|041
|{{MSP|041|Zubat}}
|{{p|Zubat}}
{{typetable|Poison}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|042
|{{MSP|042|Golbat}}
|{{p|Golbat}}
{{typetable|Poison}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|083
|{{MSP|083|Farfetch'd}}
|{{p|Farfetch'd}}
{{typetable|Normal}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|084
|{{MSP|084|Doduo}}
|{{p|Doduo}}
{{typetable|Normal}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|085
|{{MSP|085|Dodrio}}
|{{p|Dodrio}}
{{typetable|Normal}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|123
|{{MSP|123|Scyther}}
|{{p|Scyther}}
{{typetable|Bug}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|127
|{{MSP|127M|Pinsir}}
|{{p|Pinsir|Mega Pinsir}}
{{typetable|Bug}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|130
|{{MSP|130|Gyarados}}
|{{p|Gyarados}}
{{typetable|Water}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
| rowspan="2" |142
|{{MSP|142|Aerodactyl}}
|{{p|Aerodactyl}}
{{typetable|Rock}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|{{MSP|142M|Aerodactyl}}
|{{p|Aerodactyl|Mega Aerodactyl}}
{{typetable|Rock}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|144
|{{MSP|144|Articuno}}
|{{p|Articuno}}
{{typetable|Ice}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|145
|{{MSP|145|Zapdos}}
|{{p|Zapdos}}
{{typetable|Electric}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|146
|{{MSP|146|Moltres}}
|{{p|Moltres}}
{{typetable|Fire}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|149
|{{MSP|149|Dragonite}}
|{{p|Dragonite}}
{{typetable|Dragon}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|163
|{{MSP|163|Hoothoot}}
|{{p|Hoothoot}}
{{typetable|Normal}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|164
|{{MSP|164|Noctowl}}
|{{p|Noctowl}}
{{typetable|Normal}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|165
|{{MSP|165|Ledyba}}
|{{p|Ledyba}}
{{typetable|Bug}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|166
|{{MSP|166|Ledian}}
|{{p|Ledian}}
{{typetable|Bug}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|169
|{{MSP|169|Crobat}}
|{{p|Crobat}}
{{typetable|Poison}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|176
|{{MSP|176|Togetic}}
|{{p|Togetic}}{{tt|*|Normal/Flying-type in Generations II-V}}
{{typetable|Fairy}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|177
|{{MSP|177|Natu}}
|{{p|Natu}}
{{typetable|Psychic}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|178
|{{MSP|178|Xatu}}
|{{p|Xatu}}
{{typetable|Psychic}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|187
|{{MSP|187|Hoppip}}
|{{p|Hoppip}}
{{typetable|Grass}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|188
|{{MSP|188|Skiploom}}
|{{p|Skiploom}}
{{typetable|Grass}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|189
|{{MSP|189|Jumpluff}}
|{{p|Jumpluff}}
{{typetable|Grass}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|193
|{{MSP|193|Yanma}}
|{{p|Yanma}}
{{typetable|Bug}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|198
|{{MSP|198|Murkrow}}
|{{p|Murkrow}}
{{typetable|Dark}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|207
|{{MSP|207|Gligar}}
|{{p|Gligar}}
{{typetable|Ground}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|225
|{{MSP|225|Delibird}}
|{{p|Delibird}}
{{typetable|Ice}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|226
|{{MSP|226|Mantine}}
|{{p|Mantine}}
{{typetable|Water}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|227
|{{MSP|227|Skarmory}}
|{{p|Skarmory}}
{{typetable|Steel}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|249
|{{MSP|249|Lugia}}
|{{p|Lugia}}
{{typetable|Psychic}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|250
|{{MSP|250|Ho-Oh}}
|{{p|Ho-Oh}}
{{typetable|Fire}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|267
|{{MSP|267|Beautifly}}
|{{p|Beautifly}}
{{typetable|Bug}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|276
|{{MSP|276|Taillow}}
|{{p|Taillow}}
{{typetable|Normal}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|277
|{{MSP|277|Swellow}}
|{{p|Swellow}}
{{typetable|Normal}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|278
|{{MSP|278|Wingull}}
|{{p|Wingull}}
{{typetable|Water}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|279
|{{MSP|279|Pelipper}}
|{{p|Pelipper}}
{{typetable|Water}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|284
|{{MSP|284|Masquerain}}
|{{p|Masquerain}}
{{typetable|Bug}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|291
|{{MSP|291|Ninjask}}
|{{p|Ninjask}}
{{typetable|Bug}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|333
|{{MSP|333|Swablu}}
|{{p|Swablu}}
{{typetable|Normal}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|334
|{{MSP|334|Altaria}}
|{{p|Altaria}}
{{typetable|Dragon}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|357
|{{MSP|357|Tropius}}
|{{p|Tropius}}
{{typetable|Grass}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
| rowspan="2" |373
|{{MSP|373|Salamence}}
|{{p|Salamence}}
{{typetable|Dragon}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|{{MSP|373M|Salamence}}
|{{p|Salamence|Mega Salamence}}
{{typetable|Dragon}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
| rowspan="2" |384
|{{MSP|384|Rayquaza}}
|{{p|Rayquaza}}
{{typetable|Dragon}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|{{MSP|384M|Rayquaza}}
|{{p|Rayquaza|Mega Rayquaza}}
{{typetable|Dragon}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|396
|{{MSP|396|Starly}}
|{{p|Starly}}
{{typetable|Normal}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|397
|{{MSP|397|Staravia}}
|{{p|Staravia}}
{{typetable|Normal}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|398
|{{MSP|398|Staraptor}}
|{{p|Staraptor}}
{{typetable|Normal}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|414
|{{MSP|414|Mothim}}
|{{p|Mothim}}
{{typetable|Bug}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|415
|{{MSP|415|Combee}}
|{{p|Combee}}
{{typetable|Bug}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|416
|{{MSP|416|Vespiquen}}
|{{p|Vespiquen}}
{{typetable|Bug}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|425
|{{MSP|425|Drifloon}}
|{{p|Drifloon}}
{{typetable|Ghost}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|426
|{{MSP|426|Drifblim}}
|{{p|Drifblim}}
{{typetable|Ghost}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|430
|{{MSP|430|Honchkrow}}
|{{p|Honchkrow}}
{{typetable|Dark}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|441
|{{MSP|441|Chatot}}
|{{p|Chatot}}
{{typetable|Normal}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|458
|{{MSP|458|Mantyke}}
|{{p|Mantyke}}
{{typetable|Water}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|468
|{{MSP|468|Togekiss}}
|{{p|Togekiss}}{{tt|*|Normal/Flying-type in Generations IV-V}}
{{typetable|Fairy}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|469
|{{MSP|469|Yanmega}}
|{{p|Yanmega}}
{{typetable|Bug}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|472
|{{MSP|472|Gliscor}}
|{{p|Gliscor}}
{{typetable|Ground}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|479
|{{MSP|479F|Rotom}}
|{{p|Rotom|Fan Rotom}}{{tt|*|Electric/Ghost-type in Generation IV}}
{{typetable|Electric}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|492
|{{MSP|492S|Shaymin}}
|{{p|Shaymin}} [[List of Pokémon with form differences#Shaymin|Sky Forme]]
{{typetable|Grass}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|519
|{{MSP|519|Pidove}}
|{{p|Pidove}}
{{typetable|Normal}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|520
|{{MSP|520|Tranquill}}
|{{p|Tranquill}}
{{typetable|Normal}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|521
|{{MSP|521{{#ifexpr: ({{#time: H}} mod 2) = 0||F}}|Unfezant}}
|{{p|Unfezant}}
{{typetable|Normal}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|527
|{{MSP|527|Woobat}}
|{{p|Woobat}}
{{typetable|Psychic}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|528
|{{MSP|528|Swoobat}}
|{{p|Swoobat}}
{{typetable|Psychic}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|561
|{{MSP|561|Sigilyph}}
|{{p|Sigilyph}}
{{typetable|Psychic}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|566
|{{MSP|566|Archen}}
|{{p|Archen}}
{{typetable|Rock}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|567
|{{MSP|567|Archeops}}
|{{p|Archeops}}
{{typetable|Rock}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|580
|{{MSP|580|Ducklett}}
|{{p|Ducklett}}
{{typetable|Water}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|581
|{{MSP|581|Swanna}}
|{{p|Swanna}}
{{typetable|Water}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|587
|{{MSP|587|Emolga}}
|{{p|Emolga}}
{{typetable|Electric}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|627
|{{MSP|627|Rufflet}}
|{{p|Rufflet}}
{{typetable|Normal}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|628
|{{MSP|628|Braviary}}
|{{p|Braviary}}
{{typetable|Normal}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|629
|{{MSP|629|Vullaby}}
|{{p|Vullaby}}
{{typetable|Dark}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|630
|{{MSP|630|Mandibuzz}}
|{{p|Mandibuzz}}
{{typetable|Dark}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
| rowspan="2" |642
|{{MSP|642|Thundurus}}
|{{p|Thundurus}} [[List of Pokémon with form differences#Forces of Nature|Incarnate Forme]]
{{typetable|Electric}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|{{MSP|642T|Thundurus}}
|{{p|Thundurus}} [[List of Pokémon with form differences#Forces of Nature|Therian Forme]]
{{typetable|Electric}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
| rowspan="2" |645
|{{MSP|645|Landorus}}
|{{p|Landorus}} [[List of Pokémon with form differences#Forces of Nature|Incarnate Forme]]
{{typetable|Ground}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|{{MSP|645T|Landorus}}
|{{p|Landorus}} [[List of Pokémon with form differences#Forces of Nature|Therian Forme]]
{{typetable|Ground}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|661
|{{MSP|661|Fletchling}}
|{{p|Fletchling}}
{{typetable|Normal}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|662
|{{MSP|662|Fletchinder}}
|{{p|Fletchinder}}
{{typetable|Fire}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|663
|{{MSP|663|Talonflame}}
|{{p|Talonflame}}
{{typetable|Fire}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|666
|{{MSP|666|Vivillon}}
|{{p|Vivillon}}
{{typetable|Bug}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|701
|{{MSP|701|Hawlucha}}
|{{p|Hawlucha}}
{{typetable|Fighting}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|717
|{{MSP|717|Yveltal}}
|{{p|Yveltal}}
{{typetable|Dark}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|722
|{{MSP|722|Rowlet}}
|{{p|Rowlet}}
{{typetable|Grass}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|723
|{{MSP|723|Dartrix}}
|{{p|Dartrix}}
{{typetable|Grass}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|731
|{{MSP|731|Pikipek}}
|{{p|Pikipek}}
{{typetable|Normal}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|732
|{{MSP|732|Trumbeak}}
|{{p|Trumbeak}}
{{typetable|Normal}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|733
|{{MSP|733|Toucannon}}
|{{p|Toucannon}}
{{typetable|Normal}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
| rowspan="4" |741
|{{MSP|741|Oricorio}}
|{{p|Oricorio}} [[List of Pokémon with form differences#Oricorio|Baile Style]]
{{typetable|Fire}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|{{MSP|741Po|Oricorio}}
|{{p|Oricorio}} [[List of Pokémon with form differences#Oricorio|Pom-Pom Style]]
{{typetable|Electric}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|{{MSP|741Pa|Oricorio}}
|{{p|Oricorio}} [[List of Pokémon with form differences#Oricorio|Pa'u Style]]
{{typetable|Psychic}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|{{MSP|741Se|Oricorio}}
|{{p|Oricorio}} [[List of Pokémon with form differences#Oricorio|Sensu Style]]
{{typetable|Ghost}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|774
|{{MSP|774|Minior}}
|{{p|Minior}}
{{typetable|Rock}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|-
|797
|{{MSP|797|Celesteela}}
|{{p|Celesteela}}
{{typetable|Steel}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
|}
|}

====Pokéstar Studios opponents====
{| class="roundy" style="margin:auto; background: #{{flying color light}}; border: 5px solid #{{flying color}};"
|-
|
{| border=1 width="100%" class="unsortable" style="margin:auto; background: #FFFFFF; border:1px solid #{{flying color light}}; border-collapse:collapse;"
|- style="background: #{{flying color light}};"
! #
!
! Name
! Type 1
! Type 2
|-
|N/A
|{{MSP|000|UFO}}
|{{p|UFO}}
{{typetable|Flying}}
{{typetable|Electric}}
|}
|}

==Moves==
{{movelist/battle-head|Flying}}
{{movelist/battle|5|Acrobatics|Physical|Cool|55|100|15|any|The user nimbly strikes the target. If the user is not holding an item, this attack inflicts massive damage.}}
{{movelist/battle|3|Aerial Ace|Physical|Cool|60|—|20|any|The user confounds the target with speed, then slashes. This attack never misses.}}
{{movelist/battle|2|Aeroblast|Special|Cool|100|95|5|any|A vortex of air is shot at the target to inflict damage. Critical hits land more easily.}}
{{movelist/battle|3|Air Cutter|Special|Cool|60|95|25|adjacentfoes|The user launches razor-like wind to slash the opposing Pokémon. Critical hits land more easily.}}
{{movelist/battle|4|Air Slash|Special|Cool|75|95|15|any|The user attacks with a blade of air that slices even the sky. This may also make the target flinch.}}
{{movelist/battle|7|Beak Blast|Physical||100|100|15|anyadjacent|The user first heats up its beak, and then it attacks the target. Making direct contact with the Pokémon while it's heating up its beak results in a burn.}}
{{movelist/battle|3|Bounce|Physical|Cute|85|85|5|any|The user bounces up high, then drops on the target on the second turn. This may also leave the target with paralysis.}}
{{movelist/battle|4|Brave Bird|Physical|Cool|120|100|15|any|The user tucks in its wings and charges from a low altitude. This also damages the user quite a lot.}}
{{movelist/battle|4|Chatter|Special|Cute|65|100|20|any|The user attacks the target with sound waves of deafening chatter. This confuses the target.}}
{{movelist/battle|4|Defog|Status|Cool|—|—|15|anyadjacent|A strong wind blows away the target's barriers such as Reflect or Light Screen. This also lowers the target's evasiveness.}}
{{movelist/battle|6|Dragon Ascent|Physical|Beautiful|120|100|5|any|After soaring upward, the user attacks its target by dropping out of the sky at high speeds. But it lowers its own Defense and Sp. Def stats in the process.}}
{{movelist/battle|1|Drill Peck|Physical|Cool|80|100|20|any|A corkscrewing attack with a sharp beak acting as a drill.}}
{{movelist/battle|3|Feather Dance|Status|Beautiful|—|100|15|anyadjacent|The user covers the target's body with a mass of down that harshly lowers its Attack stat.}}
{{movelist/battle|1|Fly|Physical|Clever|90|95|15|any|The user soars and then strikes its target on the next turn.}}
{{movelist/battle|1|Gust|Special|Clever|40|100|35|any|A gust of wind is whipped up by wings and launched at the target to inflict damage.}}
{{movelist/battle|5|Hurricane|Special|Tough|110|70|10|any|The user attacks by wrapping its opponent in a fierce wind that flies up into the sky. This may also confuse the target.}}
{{movelist/battle|1|Mirror Move|Status|Clever|—|—|20|anyadjacent|The user counters the target by mimicking the target's last move.}}
{{movelist/battle|6|Oblivion Wing|Special|Cool|80|100|10|any|The user absorbs its target's HP. The user's HP is restored by over half of the damage taken by the target.}}
{{movelist/battle|1|Peck|Physical|Cool|35|100|35|any|The target is jabbed with a sharply pointed beak or horn.}}
{{movelist/battle|4|Pluck|Physical|Cute|60|100|20|any|The user pecks the target. If the target is holding a Berry, the user eats it and gains its effect.}}
{{movelist/battle|4|Roost|Status|Clever|—|—|10|self|The user lands and rests its body. It restores the user's HP by up to half of its max HP.}}
{{movelist/battle|1|Sky Attack|Physical|Cool|140|90|5|any|A second-turn attack move where critical hits land more easily. This may also make the target flinch.}}
{{movelist/battle|5|Sky Drop|Physical|Tough|60|100|10|any|The user takes the target into the sky, then drops it during the next turn. The target cannot attack while in the sky.}}
{{movelist/battle|7|Supersonic Skystrike|Physical||—|—|1|anyadjacent|The user soars up with its Z-Power and plummets toward the target at full speed. The power varies, depending on the original move.}}
{{movelist/battle|7|Supersonic Skystrike|Special||—|—|1|anyadjacent|The user soars up with its Z-Power and plummets toward the target at full speed. The power varies, depending on the original move.}}
{{movelist/battle|4|Tailwind|Status|Cool|—|—|15|team|The user whips up a turbulent whirlwind that ups the Speed stat of the user and its allies for four turns.}}
{{movelist/battle|1|Wing Attack|Physical|Cool|60|100|35|any|The target is struck with large, imposing wings spread wide to inflict damage.}}
{{movelist/battle-foot|Flying}}

==Abilities==
===Interacting with the Flying type===
A Pokémon with {{a|Color Change}}, {{a|Protean}}, {{a|Imposter}}, {{a|RKS System}}, or {{a|Multitype}} will become a Flying-type Pokémon if (respectively) it is hit with a Flying-type move, uses a Flying-type move, is sent out against a Flying-type opponent, is holding a {{DL|Memory|Flying Memory}}, or is holding a {{DL|Plate|Sky Plate}} or {{DL|Z-Crystal|Flyinium Z}}.

{| width="70%" class="roundy sortable" style="margin:auto; text-align:center; background:#{{flying color}}; border: 2px solid #{{flying color dark}}"
|-
! style="background:#{{flying color light}}; {{roundytl|8px}}" | Gen
! style="background:#{{flying color light}};" | Ability
! style="background:#{{flying color light}}; {{roundytr|8px}}" class="unsortable" | Description
|-
! width="30px" style="background:#{{kalos color}}; border: 1px solid #{{kalos color dark}}" | VI
| width="100px" style="background:#FFF; border: 1px solid #D8D8D8" | {{acolor|Aerilate|000}}
| style="background:#FFF; border: 1px solid #D8D8D8; text-align:left;" | Normal-type moves become Flying-type moves.
|-
! width="30px" style="background:#{{kalos color}}; border: 1px solid #{{kalos color dark}}" | VI
| width="100px" style="background:#FFF; border: 1px solid #D8D8D8" | {{acolor|Delta Stream|000}}
| style="background:#FFF; border: 1px solid #D8D8D8; text-align:left;" | Nullifies weather conditions, moves, and abilities. Super-effective moves against Flying-types become normally effective.
|-
! width="30px" style="background:#{{kalos color}}; border: 1px solid #{{kalos color dark}}" | VI
| width="100px" style="background:#FFF; border: 1px solid #D8D8D8" | {{acolor|Gale Wings|000}}
| style="background:#FFF; border: 1px solid #D8D8D8; text-align:left;" | Gives priority to Flying-type moves when HP is full.
|- class="unsortable"
! colspan="3" style="background:#{{flying color light}}; {{roundybottom|8px}}" |All details are accurate to Generation VII games. For details that have changed between generations, please see an individual Ability's page.
|}

===Exclusive Abilities===
Only Flying-type Pokémon can have these Abilities. This does not include [[Signature Ability|signature Abilities]].
{| width="70%" class="roundy sortable" style="margin:auto; text-align:center; background:#{{flying color}}; border: 2px solid #{{flying color dark}}"
|-
! style="background:#{{flying color light}}; {{roundytl|8px}}" | Gen
! style="background:#{{flying color light}};" | Ability
! style="background:#{{flying color light}}; {{roundytr|8px}}" class="unsortable" | Description
|-
! width="30px" style="background:#{{kalos color}}; border: 1px solid #{{kalos color dark}}" | VI
| width="100px" style="background:#FFFFFF; border: 1px solid #D8D8D8" | {{acolor|Aerilate|000}}
| style="background:#FFFFFF; border: 1px solid #D8D8D8; text-align:left;" | Normal-type moves become Flying-type moves.
|-
! width="30px" style="background:#{{unova color}}; border: 1px solid #{{unova color dark}}" | V
| width="100px" style="background:#FFFFFF; border: 1px solid #D8D8D8" | {{acolor|Big Pecks|000}}
| style="background:#FFFFFF; border: 1px solid #D8D8D8; text-align:left;" | Protects the Pokémon from Defense-lowering attacks.
|-
! width="30px" style="background:#{{unova color}}; border: 1px solid #{{unova color dark}}" | V
| width="100px" style="background:#FFFFFF; border: 1px solid #D8D8D8" | {{acolor|Multiscale|000}}
| style="background:#FFFFFF; border: 1px solid #D8D8D8; text-align:left;" | Reduces damage the Pokémon takes when its HP is full.
|-
! colspan="3" style="background:#{{flying color light}}; {{roundybottom|8px}}" |All details are accurate to Generation VI games. For details that have changed between generations, please see an individual Ability's page.
|}

==Trivia==
* Generations {{Gen|I}}, {{Gen|II}}, and {{Gen|V}} introduced more Flying-type Pokémon than any other generation, each with {{tt|19|including Rotom's Fan form in Gen V}}. [[Generation VI]] and [[Generation VII]] introduced the fewest Flying-type Pokémon, with eight.
* Generations I and {{Gen|IV}} introduced more Flying-type moves than any other generation, with seven. Generation II introduced the fewest Flying-type moves, with only {{m|Aeroblast|one}}.
* Prior to Generation V, Flying was the only Pokémon type for which there were no single type Pokémon.
* Prior to Generation VI, Flying was the only Pokémon type for which there was no dual type Pokémon with the type as its primary type.
* Normal is the most common type paired with Flying.

==In other languages==
{{langtable|color={{flying color}}|bordercolor={{flying color light}}
|ja=ひこう (飛行) ''Hikou''
|zh_yue=飛行 ''{{tt|Fēihàhng|Flying}}''
|zh_cmn=飛行 / 飞行 ''{{tt|Fēixíng|Flying}}''
|cs=Létající
|da=Flyve
|nl=Vliegsoort
|fi=Lento
|fr=Vol
|de=Flug
|el=Ιπτάμενος ''Iptámenos''
|he=מעופף ''Meofef''
|hu=Repülő
|id=Terbang
|it=Volante
|ko=비행 ''Bihaeng''
|no=Flyvende Flyr
|pl=Latający
|pt=Voador
|ro=Zbor
|ru=Летающий ''Letayushchiy''
|es=Volador
|sv=Flygande Flyga
|th=บิน ''bin''
|vi=Bay
}}

[[de:Flug]]
[[fr:Vol (type)]]
[[it:Volante (tipo)]]
[[ja:ひこう]]
[[pl:Lot (typ)]]
[[zh:飞行（属性）]]

User talk:Aidanzapunk

2017-02-21T04:16:40Z

Felthry: /* "Fix your image uploading thing"? */ new section

User talk:Tiddlywinks/Archive 3

2017-02-21T04:06:13Z

Felthry: /* Pokémon pronunciation? */

;Archived talk
* [[User talk:Tiddlywinks/Archive 1]] (through Sept 14, 2014)
* [[User talk:Tiddlywinks/Archive 2]] (through Nov 5, 2015)

== How do I archieve? ==

I see you just archieved your talk page. I'm feeling my talk page has grown over the years to a size I feel like is more than enough long. Can I just do it on my own like you did with your talk page just now? --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 19:07, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
:Yup, all you have to do is move it [[Bulbapedia:Talk page policy#Archiving user talk pages|more or less]] wherever you want (with the tab at the top of the page). Make sure to link the archive on your new talk page, too. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 19:10, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
::Thanks! I'll do that when I get the chance. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 19:12, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

== Cosplay Pikachu ==
Tiddlywinks: To change costumes all you have to do is talk to the lady... That is already written. Sory I am new and still learning[[User:Tripplekittys|Tripplekittys]] ([[User talk:Tripplekittys|talk]]) 22:00, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

== Hey ==

I just wanted to thank you for your hard work with the e-Reader information for Colosseum. I've been trying to get a hold of that information for a long time and you managed to collect quite a substantial amount. So again, thanks! [[User:Ht14|'''''ht''''']][[User talk:Ht14|''14'']] 23:07, 13 November 2015 (UTC)
:{{u|Nmurthy}} deserves much of the credit for being the first to [[User talk:Nmurthy#Colosseum e Cards|find]] the most recent information and start adding it here. I'm hoping I'll be able to contact the video's uploader, though, and maybe add even more info eventually. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 23:18, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

== Talk: Starter Pokémon ==

[[User:Chrisbulb|Christian]] ([[User talk:Chrisbulb|talk]]) 21:02, 20 November 2015 (UTC)
Hi Tiddlywinks,

I feel this trivia fact in the anime is important and should not be deleted please.

*{{p|Charmander}} is the only Kanto starter that was not obtained or caught by May.

May only got Bulbasaur and Squirtle, but not Charmander. She does have a Fire-starter, but it is from "Hoenn" not Kanto.
:Three Pokemon is a small group, and two is a small number. It borders on coincidence. But honestly, I don't generally bother with the anime so maybe I've got the wrong perspective and others might feel different if you bring it up on the Starter Pokemon talk page. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 21:11, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

[[User:Chrisbulb|Christian]] ([[User talk:Chrisbulb|talk]]) 02:05, 21 November 2015 (UTC)
It might make a great trivia fact. Ash caught all the Kanto starters, but May only caught two of them. Soot yourself if you don't appreciate it. (Others would probably realize this too.)
:Tiddlywinks is right, three Pokémon is too small of a group. So your trivia is unnotable.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 03:40, 21 November 2015 (UTC)

== Traps ==

I am not sure on the exact percents as I didn't dig up the info myself (as I've said on my talk page). I did check other things on my own, and for example there are indeed natural Spiked Tiles in [[Solar Cave]]. [[User:Eridanus|Eridanus]] ([[User talk:Eridanus|talk]]) 12:30, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
:Well, it doesn't look like the writer for the FAQ you linked explicitly said whether they got their numbers directly from the game or from lots of experimenting. I don't really mind practical estimations myself; my concern is just, if that's what they are (instead of ideal values), it should probably be noted. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 12:42, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
::I'll edit the pages appropiately. And use your template as it's far more {{tt|convenient|I just used what was on pages for Explorers' dungeons (as these games have traps way earlier so there were some already)}}. [[User:Eridanus|Eridanus]] ([[User talk:Eridanus|talk]]) 12:52, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

== Pokémon Manga Location ==

Hi, you previously removed my addition to the Location part of [[PS001]] saying that the infobo wasn't meant for more than one information.

Alot of other chapters such as [[PS002]] contains more than one. I'm lost. [[User:MannedTooth|MannedTooth]] ([[User talk:MannedTooth|talk]]) 23:49, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
:Okay, that's partly my bad, then.
:There's still a couple issues with what you were trying to add, though. First and foremost, as a guideline, how about we generally try to stick to places we actually have pages for on this wiki? (I.e., not "West part of Pallet Town's Forest".) Second, checking the summary, it really doesn't sound like Oak's Lab features at all prominently in PS001; so that's probably a reason against adding Oak's Lab there too. Also, while I do notice that [[PS005]] includes the Gym as a location, other chapters like [[PS014]] don't include [[Pokémon Tower]] and such; you can argue they should, but I would suggest this: most often, it's not really necessary to include locations within a town (like Oak's Lab) if that town is already given as the location.
:Feel free to ask any other questions. I'm totally capable of being wrong or underinformed, so I'd be happy to hear if you see anything else that seems to contradict what I've said. Honestly, one of the {{bp|Project Manga}} contacts may be a better person to try to talk to if you want more confident answers. =P [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 00:10, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

::I totally understand that places that don't have a page are irrelavant, that's sorted out for me now. But for your exemple with Oak's Lab, even though it is IN Pallet Town, this is still a well-known and important place to be in the Pokémon game. But that's not my question, no, it's rather as you said, Oak's Lab is not the main place in which the chapter takes place, but at the end (2 pages or so) of the chapter, Red is outside of Oak's Lab and we can very clearly see that it is his lab since there's a sign and all that.

::As you said, you might not be the best person to argue something like that since it's manga-related, but where should we draw the line? Is knocking at the door of a building before entering it counts as being a location, or does the character needs to be INSIDE of that location? Thanks for your fast and elaborate replies ! It's really appreciated. :) [[User:MannedTooth|MannedTooth]] ([[User talk:MannedTooth|talk]]) 00:18, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
:::Just to be clear, I'll reiterate first: I don't really think Oak's Lab ''should'' be in the infobox at any point. Pallet Town is pretty much good enough, and the summary arguably suffices otherwise.
:::As for where the line might be: as a bare minimum, if a place isn't entered, it doesn't belong in the infobox. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 00:38, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

:::: Gotcha! [[User:MannedTooth|MannedTooth]] ([[User talk:MannedTooth|talk]]) 00:40, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

== Content removed ==

I had a couple of questions regarding my removed additions.

*In [[Interviewers]], you said ''"Please don't use "you". Also, quotes are for individuals, not Trainer classes"''
**I won't be using first person from now on, I will be using 3rd person. Thanks for the tip.
**I agree with you on the fact that it should be for individuals, not for trainer class, but this one's tricky, since in every game, the interviewers are only 2 persons that stick together, so if you mention the game, you automatically know which trainer we are talking about. So what are the option here? I am seeing three:
***We make an exception for this trainer class since, as I mentionned, they're unique in every game.
***We make an exclusive page for each character and include their quotes in it.
***We add to the trainer list their quotes from talking and initiating, winning or losing a fight.

*In [[Player's House]] you said ''"Please stick to the 3rd person (not "we"). And that's not unique to ORAS"''
**As said previously, I will stick to the 3rd person. But can I still add this information?
**Texts on Player's Houses signs aren't always written the same way even though they are very similar, should we put a table stating what every sign mentions for every generation?

Thanks again! :) [[User:MannedTooth|MannedTooth]] ([[User talk:MannedTooth|talk]]) 05:28, 21 January 2016 (UTC)
:As for interviewers... Firstly, I'll note that we do have pages for [[Gabby and Ty]] and [[Roxy and Oli]]. But, secondly, it's really not ''guaranteed'' that any "interview" is conducted by those people unless that is explicitly conveyed. There's no reason other people can't have jobs as interviewers. (And thirdly, a "report" really isn't guaranteed to be conducted by "interviewers" either.)
:For the house, I kind of think the sign is pretty trivial (and I don't mean that it belongs under Trivia). More, the differences between the signs are ''really'' trivial I think. If the sign would warrant any mention, it would be as part of the intro, not multiple times for each section. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 05:42, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

::You're right, I haven't thought about the fact that others may be interviewers. For the next point, the game itself says that it's more than one ("we") interviewers than speak since it's written as so: ''"Interviewer: (text)"'' so it's probably them, but as you said, it's not guaranteed. As for the signs, yeah, it's pretty trivial, but it's still a part of the game's text/lore. Well, it's up to you, I'll stop mentionning it if it's that trivial. :P [[User:MannedTooth|MannedTooth]] ([[User talk:MannedTooth|talk]]) 05:51, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

== Quotes Mark. Why or Why not? ==

You recently removed the quotes on my TV shows' titles. Why is that so? I didn't quite understand the thing about the Teachy TV. As for the quotes themselves, the game uses them, shouldn't we use them too? [[User:MannedTooth|MannedTooth]] ([[User talk:MannedTooth|talk]]) 01:36, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
:Where does the game use them? I only noticed them in the quotes for one of the shows you were adding, and at least one other didn't have them. While on the other hand, none of the other sections except Teachy TV had quotes either. (Teachy TV is a little weird, so I won't say it definitely should or shouldn't use quotes.) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 01:46, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

::Well, in fact, 3 out of the 6 shows I'm adding uses them. Considering Nadia Reports is not the official name. It's 3/5.
::They are:
::*KOUKAN TALK
::*ThePokémon Whisperer,
::*What's that?
::[[User:MannedTooth|MannedTooth]] ([[User talk:MannedTooth|talk]]) 01:53, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
:::Well, the headers for the Unova shows (including its Koukan Talk) didn't have quotes either.
:::The simple answer, though, is that it's just a special, applied format... Like how APA insists you underline or italicize shows or songs or whatever. But that's just in bulk text, really; that doesn't mean we ''must'' do the same thing in the section headers, it's just a very different context.
:::Side question: can you tell me why you chose to title the one section as Nadia Reports? In short, is that totally invented by you? [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 02:05, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

::::No, I took it from the Kalos Shows list. [[User:MannedTooth|MannedTooth]] ([[User talk:MannedTooth|talk]]) 02:07, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
:::::OK. Someone should look into whether that's really the best title... [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 02:10, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

== trainer tips layout ==

Want me to reproduce the layout as in ORAS? I skip a line everytime the game does, is that it? [[User:MannedTooth|MannedTooth]] ([[User talk:MannedTooth|talk]]) 04:47, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
:I already did. But like I said, there needs to be an actual ORAS format for that template first. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 04:51, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

::Well, if you corrected the format, why do you keep it hidden? [[User:MannedTooth|MannedTooth]] ([[User talk:MannedTooth|talk]]) 04:54, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
:::Because the Emerald format does not work properly with the ORAS text (and, again, there's no ORAS format currently). [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 04:57, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

::::Ooohh, that's what you meant! Sorry! Now I understand. :P [[User:MannedTooth|MannedTooth]] ([[User talk:MannedTooth|talk]]) 05:06, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

== Trying to delete discussion on main page ==

i am currently unable to delete the post I started on the main page. I want to delete it because I shouldn't have started a post out of "anger". Once again, I''m sorry. [[User:MannedTooth|MannedTooth]] ([[User talk:MannedTooth|talk]]) 07:49, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
:Oh, well, that's better than what I thought it was, you trying to remove all comments after your first. =P As I did say on your talk page, though, talk page comments usually are not allowed to be removed. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 07:52, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

::I knew you were gonna think I was trying to remove your comments... That stressed me out meanwhile I was struggling on my iPad, I really, really, don't mean harm to the website, nor do I want people to think I am a cheater, only wanted to delete my bad move. (Feeling bad about the fact that might start to get annoyed by all the trouble I've put you through, once again, gomen!) [[User:MannedTooth|MannedTooth]] ([[User talk:MannedTooth|talk]]) 07:57, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
:::I'm just fine, but thanks. =) All I can really tell you is, if it at all deserves removing, I'm sure someone higher up will do it. (But I wouldn't count on it.) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 08:01, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

::::A huge thank you for being so patient with me ^^ is this a good place for discussing what I was saying earlier? I would want to keep improving plots' quality. As for the Professor Oak thing, I wasn't so sure about that, you might be right, I just thought "Oak" was too... Hm.. Friendly, I guess? Anyways, as for the collective nouns, are those okay? Should they be considered 3rd person singular as I said or ..? [[User:MannedTooth|MannedTooth]] ([[User talk:MannedTooth|talk]]) 08:08, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
:::::Basically, I'd advise just leaving the collective nouns alone. IMO either way can be valid—I can even change my mind from one moment to the next. Like I kind of think ''"Team Rocket overhear Clemont and Bonnie talking about Snover and decide to take revenge on Abomasnow"'' is better than "overhears"/"decides", but then I think ''"Elsewhere, Team Rocket have also followed the group to the snowy mountains"'' is not as good as "has".
:::::The other thing you mentioned, ''"Red sends out Poliwhirl and uses Water Gun"'', is not a wording I really have much problem with personally. And to be nitpicky, "makes him use Water Gun" isn't a great-sounding alternative IMO. Because, on the one hand, the Trainer ''is'' making the decisions; and on the other, it kind of gets awkward if you'd always have to say "makes [it] use". There may still be ways around both issues (like ''"Jessie sends out Gourgeist to attack with Shadow Ball and Seed Bomb"''), but the best thing in the end may just be to get used to it (which of course is entirely up to you and your "conscience", so to speak). [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 08:29, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

::::::After a quick research, I have come with some more information concerning collective nouns, well explained on this page: http://grammar.yourdictionary.com/parts-of-speech/nouns/Collective-Nouns.html
In short: a team, for instance is always one thing, but it appears like I was part wrong, since when it acts as a whole, it's singular, and when it acts as individuals, it's plural.
Examples:
*Team Rocket IS looking for somewhere to hide.
*Team Rocket ARE taking care of THEIR Pokémon. (Jessy for Ekans and James for Koffing for instance)

My "<trainer> makes <pokemon> uses <move>" phrasing is not that good I admit, but we should find a better way to do so, since even if it's minor. Let's say Ash asks Bulbasaur to tackle Blue. Is Ash tackling Blue? No, Bulbasaur is, on Ash's order.

Anyway, these are little details that are worth looking up in official sources since, if we want to build a real, good encyclopedia, our grammar/wording must be top-notch! ^~^ [[User:MannedTooth|MannedTooth]] ([[User talk:MannedTooth|talk]]) 08:41, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

== Streamlining signature ==

"I'm curious. Why do you streamline" your signature every time? Shouldn't it be possible to just edit it in your preferences so that part you keep removing never appears?": Is it possible to do that?

[[User:Jdogno4|Jdogno4]] ([[User talk:Jdogno4|talk]]) 06:59, 25 January 2016 (UTC)
:Click the preferences link at the top of any page. The third box should be for your signature, and if you enter <code><nowiki>[[User:Jdogno4|Jdogno4]] ([[User talk:Jdogno4|talk]])</nowiki></code> in the new signature box, I think that'd make your signature appear like you want.
:On a side note, it's usually best to reply to someone's original comment directly (like mine on your talk page) instead of starting a brand new comment on their talk page. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 07:03, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

== Thanks ==
Thanks for updating the Genesect article. I just found a source that sites the code life. Do you think a source for the events should be provided?
[[User:Blado|Blado]] ([[User talk:Blado|talk]]) 17:25, 27 January 2016 (UTC)
:If you follow the event link, there is a link to Bulbanews article and links to the 20th anniversary site. I suspect that's the sort of source you were thinking of? [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 17:57, 27 January 2016 (UTC)

== Number of badges needed ==

So, if I know that it's not 1, what should we put? Since writing 1 is a lie/mistake. [[User:MannedTooth|MannedTooth]] ([[User talk:MannedTooth|talk]]) 21:57, 27 January 2016 (UTC)
:Put 2 if that's right. Or 3 if that is. Or 4, or 5 or 6 or 7 or 8. You can take the time to figure it out. "?" is just a bit too odd.
:(FWIW, you may also want to check the shops just before you get a Badge, just to see if there was maybe something in between that actually changed it and you don't mistake that for a Badge.) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 22:04, 27 January 2016 (UTC)

::Is there a way to improve this template? Like, if I change something on it, I need to change it for ALL the shops in Hoenn Gen 6 which is like for every city... Can't we just make a template already filled up with the good info and simply add it to every page we need it? As a programmer, that seems more logical to me, that makes your code (wiki) more DRY (don't repeat yourself). [[User:MannedTooth|MannedTooth]] ([[User talk:MannedTooth|talk]]) 22:21, 27 January 2016 (UTC)
:::Basically, no, it's easier to just change every page.
:::Strictly speaking, it probably could be done, but I'm pretty sure the cons will outweigh the pros. ("Pretty sure" in part because it depends on how exactly you want to implement it. And also because I'm not an expert on how templates burden a wiki; I just know they do to an extent/at a certain point. You unfortunately can't do everything with a wiki you might like to with a custom program.) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 22:37, 27 January 2016 (UTC)

::::Well, I don't know about the burden (but to me, one instance is less heavy than many) but I know enough about wiki templates that I know this can be done, and as you said, except for the burdening (which may even be smaller imo). All you have to do is create the template already filled, and then add it where you want, when you change the original, they all change, so much more ergonomic and easy-to-use. Who are the ones who decide the template stuff? I would like to discuss that with them. ^~^ [[User:MannedTooth|MannedTooth]] ([[User talk:MannedTooth|talk]]) 22:42, 27 January 2016 (UTC)
:::::Well, I can tell you that when a template needs to be improved, one of the first things that gets done is to manually substitute any nested template calls. It has to do with {{wp|Wikipedia:Template limits#Nested transclusions|this}} sort of thing and everything that's on that page I think. So a template that's just a thin wrapper for another template probably won't exactly be appreciated.
:::::But if you really want, sure, I can try to direct you to someone else...? [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 23:00, 27 January 2016 (UTC)

== Consistency on Route 110 ==

In the game, they appear in this order : Plusle on the left and Minun on the right.

(It's a 2v2 battle) [[User:MannedTooth|MannedTooth]] ([[User talk:MannedTooth|talk]]) 02:51, 2 February 2016 (UTC)
:1) In a battle, Trainers face each other. So your left Pokemon (which is your first) is not opposite their "left"/first Pokemon.
:2) The game also says, "sent out ''Plusle and Minun''", not Minun and Plusle. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 02:57, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

::Oh, yeah, right! You never stop to be right don't you? ahah [[User:MannedTooth|MannedTooth]] ([[User talk:MannedTooth|talk]]) 03:03, 2 February 2016 (UTC)
:::Paradoxically, the secret is to never trust that you are. =P [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 03:06, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

::::Well, you see, I try to be humble about everything and accepting what others tell me, like, the first time I joined the wiki, I didn't understand your way of doing things. But now that I more or less understood, I try to verify every sources and accept other's arguments. (although, you saw that I love arguing) :P [[User:MannedTooth|MannedTooth]] ([[User talk:MannedTooth|talk]]) 03:08, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

== Deleted shop ==

I know it was already mentionned that there were move tutors, but I think we should still make a section for the shop that does so instead of all putting in move tutors. (Talking about [[Mauville City]]) [[User:MannedTooth| MannedTooth]] ([[User_Talk:MannedTooth|Talk]]) 14:35, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
:You hardly added anything with those shop sections. The Ultimate Move Shop is the one exception, but only barely. Ultimately, you were pretty much only adding the signs for each shop. And that's not nearly enough justification for making entirely new sections on the page. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 15:06, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

::Well, there was content to add, simply I didn't go in depth. I was planning to do that later. [[User:MannedTooth| MannedTooth]] ([[User_Talk:MannedTooth|Talk]]) 15:10, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
:::You still shouldn't duplicate/overlap the move tutors section. Didn't you say it before: D.R.Y. =P [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 15:16, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

:::: T_T you can't use my own sentences against me only when that helps you x) [[User:MannedTooth| MannedTooth]] ([[User_Talk:MannedTooth|Talk]]) 15:18, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

== Gekkoga ==
You should probably ask before removing (like you did now), especially if you don't know the concepts, if you don't want people to get mad :D

Ninjas are very often associated with the moon (and the night) in Japanese folklore. The word "moon" implies a "night", from where Greninja's Dark Type comes from.--[[User:Omojuzeforever|Omojuzeforever]] ([[User talk:Omojuzeforever|talk]]) 16:01, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
:There's not really anything I could quote you from the top of my head. Though if you have ever read/watched ninja stories, the ninjas are said to move "with the moonlight". Almost all of their most dangerous missions are on nights that have either a "full moon" or a "crescent moon". Sorry, can't really quote you anything from the top of my head. Also, the "moonlight" implies "night", which is "darkness", from which Greninja's Dark-Type comes.--[[User:Omojuzeforever|Omojuzeforever]] ([[User talk:Omojuzeforever|talk]]) 20:05, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

== Pokemon Mystery Dungeon Quotes ==

Hey, I would like to start doing exactly what I'm doing for ORAS, but this time, for PMD Blue Team. What would be the best way to document quotes and such?

Shall I create a page for every notable NPC in the game?

[[User:MannedTooth| MannedTooth]] ([[User_Talk:MannedTooth|Talk]]) 17:57, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
:You'll either have to look through {{cat|Pokémon Mystery Dungeon characters}} to find some examples or just ask someone who deals more with PMD. Outside the core games, I've pretty much only played games that can connect with them (Ranger, Colo/XD). [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 18:11, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

::I already looked aat these lists, but the problem is that they are just a bunch of Names and Description more or less. I was thinking about creating pages for every one. Just like I saw for ORAS, I would try to "mimic" the way it's done. So if anything's wrong, you can always help me improve it. What do you think? [[User:MannedTooth| MannedTooth]] ([[User_Talk:MannedTooth|Talk]]) 18:21, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
:::I'm saying I don't really have the first clue. It'd be easier for you to just try to ask either someone who's more familiar with PMD or else who takes more responsibility for "Games" as a whole. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 18:30, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

== Streamlining signature. ==

"Jdogno4, your signature is appearing with "--" at the beginning because you are clicking the signature button, which inserts --[[User:Jdogno4|Jdogno4]] ([[User talk:Jdogno4|talk]]) 08:43, 9 February 2016 (UTC).": I get that. "However, this is in no way forcing you to save your posts with that "--" before your signature.": I get that as well. "You may either delete the "--" before your signature before you save your post, resulting in only [[User:Jdogno4|Jdogno4]] ([[User talk:Jdogno4|talk]]) 08:43, 9 February 2016 (UTC), or you may forego the signature button entirely and simply type [[User:Jdogno4|Jdogno4]] ([[User talk:Jdogno4|talk]]) 08:43, 9 February 2016 (UTC) at the end of your posts manually.": I suppose I am trying to avoid deleting the "[[User:Jdogno4|Jdogno4]] ([[User talk:Jdogno4|talk]]) 08:43, 9 February 2016 (UTC)" when I remove the "--". There is less chance of that once the signature is stamped.

[[User:Jdogno4|Jdogno4]] ([[User talk:Jdogno4|talk]]) 08:43, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

== upload please ==

I am currently making Hazel's Pikachu page. I need this image to be uploaded:

http://i.imgur.com/4OZvoGr.jpg

Thanks! [[User:MannedTooth| MannedTooth ]] ([[User_Talk:MannedTooth|Talk]]) 16:47, 10 February 2016 (UTC)
:I'd suggest just focusing on making the page in your userspace for now so it can be determined whether it's notable for the mainspace. Until then, it's not too important whether it has a picture or not. =P [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 17:07, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

== About the six month old discussion ==

Hey hello,

You removed my question with the message that I should refrain from commenting on six months old discussions. Sorry about that, I thought it was still appropriate.

Do you think I should add a new section next time or do I have to do something different?
Editing Wiki's isn't really my speciality, but please let me know! :)

Kind regards,
[[User:MistrX|MistrX]] ([[User talk:MistrX|talk]]) 20:46, 10 February 2016 (UTC)
:If you have a new question or something (or a different angle, or whatever), then yes, it would be preferred if you just started a new section. For more information, check out our {{bp|talk page policy}} (the part about old discussions is specifically under talk page etiquette). =) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 20:51, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

== New template? (again, I know) ==

So, I had another idea of template for the wiki, and since you're the latest online and the one I'm more "familiar" with (I'm sorry by the way hehe), I thought I'd show it to you.

So, basically, it is a template intended to go on the top of pages to make sort of a summary of the item/page with the quote of someone in game.

Just look at the [[User:MannedTooth/HeadQuote|template]] itself, you'll understand.

Let me know what you think, being in computer sciences, I dig making templates! :3 [[User:MannedTooth| MannedTooth ]] ([[User_Talk:MannedTooth|Talk]]) 23:53, 10 February 2016 (UTC)
:I don't think it really works for me (not talking technically). I tried your default on the [[Pokédex]] page, and IMO it just comes off too casual for what the wiki is generally aiming for... [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 00:11, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

::Well, it's kinda just intended to be a light and concise summary without going into details. I got this idea from the Don't Starve Wikia (ex: http://dont-starve-game.wikia.com/wiki/Red_Gem ) and I thought it was pretty sweet. But if it doesn't go with the wiki's goal, I'll just forget about it. Do you have any template ideas? :P [[User:MannedTooth| MannedTooth ]] ([[User_Talk:MannedTooth|Talk]]) 00:16, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
:::I can't think of anything off the top of my head. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 00:40, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

== The Preview Botton ==

My bad! I was doing it at night and I had to stop to focus on other things, but yeah, won't happen again :) --[[User:LHakaLH|LHakaLH]] ([[User talk:LHakaLH|talk]]) 20:41, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

== I wasn't sure :P ==

As I said in my edit summary, I thought that this was the name of the guy that was playing. [[User:MannedTooth| MannedTooth ]] ([[User_Talk:MannedTooth|Talk]]) 03:11, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

== Upload please :P ==

Can you upload this? If you can, I'll have more.

[http://i.imgur.com/jbLhVi5.png]

Thanks! [[User:MannedTooth| MannedTooth ]] ([[User_Talk:MannedTooth|Talk]]) 15:24, 15 February 2016 (UTC)
:That doesn't look like great quality to me. I'd suggest either checking it with {{u|Maverick Nate}} or bringing it up directly at the Archives. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 15:43, 15 February 2016 (UTC)

::What about this? [http://i.imgur.com/YftrEcw.jpg] [[User:MannedTooth| MannedTooth ]] ([[User_Talk:MannedTooth|Talk]]) 15:57, 15 February 2016 (UTC)
:::We already have the English print. Even if we didn't, we would have no need for it. The only time we'd want card images that aren't Japanese or English is if the card is actually different from those prints (or doesn't exist in them). [[User:Glik|glik]][[User talk:Glik|glak]] 16:05, 15 February 2016 (UTC)

::::I know, and it is different. Look carefully, it is in english, and the text is on the right side, basically, the card is flipped from its jap/en version. [[User:MannedTooth| MannedTooth ]] ([[User_Talk:MannedTooth|Talk]]) 16:14, 15 February 2016 (UTC)
:::::Well, never mind what I just said, only thing different is the langage of the attack on the art. Is that notable? [[User:MannedTooth| MannedTooth ]] ([[User_Talk:MannedTooth|Talk]]) 16:15, 15 February 2016 (UTC)
:::::::That's the same as the Japanese print. [[User:Glik|glik]][[User talk:Glik|glak]] 16:23, 15 February 2016 (UTC)
::::::::Just to let you know for future reference, MannedTooth, any Korean TCG images must be approved by Maverick Nate before being uploaded. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 16:42, 15 February 2016 (UTC)
:::::::::I'll keep that in head, is there any particular reason for this? [[User:MannedTooth| MannedTooth ]] ([[User_Talk:MannedTooth|Talk]]) 16:52, 15 February 2016 (UTC)
::::::::::Primarily, Maverick Nate heads the TCG effort here on Bulbapedia. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 17:01, 15 February 2016 (UTC)

== Prof. Oak and Birch ==

I thought that misspellings and other issues were ok to place in the Trivia section of the main article considering the Professor Oak article. Should that Oak example be removed as well or am I mistaken is some part? --[[User:Super goku|Super goku]] ([[User talk:Super goku|talk]]) 21:06, 15 February 2016 (UTC)
:I don't get where there's any misspelling or anything. Feel free to be as elaborate as you want trying to explain it to me =P , because I just can't see anything wrong with it. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 21:28, 15 February 2016 (UTC)
::Ah, I see. Here is how the line goes, "Great! I'm sure ''May'll'' be happy to hear that, too." For some reason, the text combines May's name with the word will to create "May'll" for some reason. I had a few issues wording it in the article, so I might not have been clear on what the text displayed. --[[User:Super goku|Super goku]] ([[User talk:Super goku|talk]]) 02:01, 16 February 2016 (UTC)
:::Are you saying that it is an error? :o [[User:MannedTooth| MannedTooth ]] ([[User_Talk:MannedTooth|Talk]]) 02:03, 16 February 2016 (UTC)
::::"For some reason"? That's a very natural thing in English, contracting "will" like that. Like I said, it doesn't seem to be any problem...
::::Can I ask, do you know what it says for Brendan? [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 02:06, 16 February 2016 (UTC)
:::::Contracting with a proper noun is correct? [[User:MannedTooth| MannedTooth ]] ([[User_Talk:MannedTooth|Talk]]) 02:09, 16 February 2016 (UTC)
::::::I'm sorry MannedTooth, but I'd really like to not have to try to carry on two separate branches of this discussion at the same time. If Super goku and I can resolve the main issue here, then if you still have questions, feel free to bring it up again then, please. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 02:11, 16 February 2016 (UTC)
:::::::I'm sorry to Tiddlywinks for causing the issue without checking more into it. Based on what you said and looking at footage, you can use the contraction of the word will with a name. Sorry for the trouble. --[[User:Super goku|Super goku]] ([[User talk:Super goku|talk]]) 03:09, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

== Where is th- Oh... ==

I had to Ctrl+F to find it. :o Isn't that a sign that it's not evident ? xP [[User:MannedTooth| MannedTooth ]] ([[User_Talk:MannedTooth|Talk]]) 00:27, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

== congratulations ==
Congrats on new rank. :) {{unsigned|Tripplekittys}}
:Thank you. =) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 22:43, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

== MC Images ==

Why is all the images on [[MC_Sixth_Generation|here]] are linked as sources at the bottom and not uploaded? [[User:MannedTooth| MannedTooth ]] ([[User_Talk:MannedTooth|Talk]]) 23:13, 16 February 2016 (UTC)
:It is against Bulbapedia policy to copy and ''upload'' images from a website without permission from the website owner or an affiliate. We prefer scans/pictures from our own users. Hence, this is why the aforementioned images are referenced and not uploaded. [[User:SirFinkleBottom|Sir]][[Special:Contributions/SirFinkleBottom|Finkle]][[User talk:SirFinkleBottom|Bottom]] 23:19, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

::Even when these come from official sources or that we mention where it comes from? [[User:MannedTooth| MannedTooth ]] ([[User_Talk:MannedTooth|Talk]]) 23:25, 16 February 2016 (UTC)
:::I sympathize with that question, MannedTooth, but I'm not 100% certain how strict our policy is in that regard. Certainly official Pokemon.com images are usually OK, but when other companies enter the picture...
:::Going by the style of the pages for previous generations of figures, though, it could also be that it would be preferable to have pictures of the figure including its packaging, and the references are mostly meant as a stopgap measure. (Since {{u|Lady Ariel}} added all of those references, it may also be faster if you simply asked her why she did it like that.) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 23:33, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

::::I found that this image [http://archives.bulbagarden.net/wiki/File:KidsVenusaur1.jpg] (for example) is tagged with its website, so can I use images from that website? If I can't, I am willing to upload take pictures on my own, only thing, I am not confirmed on the archives due to a lack of edits; there is nothing to edit, so is there a way to confirm me manually so that I can upload these? I also have plenty of [[Roaring Skies]] cards in english that I would be able to upload in order to replace the japanese that are currently there. If I add pictures/scans, my edits requirement will be met anyway, right? :P [[User:MannedTooth| MannedTooth ]] ([[User_Talk:MannedTooth|Talk]]) 00:33, 17 February 2016 (UTC)
:::::If you think there's nothing to edit, you haven't looked hard enough. Like the saying goes: where there's a will, there's a way. Learn about the Archives and then look around to figure what you can improve.
:::::Also, let me just say this: if you have ''any'' questions about the TCG, direct them to {{u|Maverick Nate}} (or at least anyone but me). I really don't know enough about our TCG effort here (or the TCG in general) to advise on much of anything about it. Nate would definitely be able to give you a definite answer about TCG issues. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 04:26, 17 February 2016 (UTC)
::::::On another note, should the [[Monster Collection]] page be renamed MONCOLLÉ. I'm no expert in this, but according to [http://www.takaratomy.co.jp/english/product_release/pdf/p131009_en.pdf this] the official name and logo has changed to MONCOLLÉ. If not, it should at least be mentioned. --[[User:Wowy|'''Wowy''']][[User talk:Wowy|'''(토크)''']] 08:11, 17 February 2016 (UTC)
:::::::Suggested. It will receive consideration in due time. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 13:47, 17 February 2016 (UTC)
::::::::Thought I would answer the question about those references on the page. They are meant to be sources for the release date of the figures (and if you look closely at the links, not all of them actually link to a page with a picture of the figure), but it just happens most of the links also include a picture of the figure. '''[[User:Lady Ariel|Lady]] [[User talk:Lady Ariel|Ariel]]''' 21:01, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

== Template:Mystery dungeon items ==

Hey why not link TMs and HMs in this template to [[List of TM and HM locations in Pokémon Mystery Dungeon]] instead? --[[User:Raltseye|Ralts]][[User talk:Raltseye|eye]] 14:40, 26 February 2016 (UTC)
:Hm. I'm not sure, maybe. I'll see if any other staff have any thoughts about it. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 18:31, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

== hitting pokemon ==

what rips of XY images are you talking about that says hit? [[User:Yamitora1|Yamitora1]] ([[User talk:Yamitora1|talk]]) 12:41, 2 March 2016 (UTC)
:Images for XY (same place I got [[:a:File:ST basic bag.png|File:ST basic bag.png]] from) that I previously received from {{u|Kaphotics}} when I asked about any such resources. I've not seen the link he gave me in public anywhere else, so I'm not sure if it's okay for me to just share that, but you could always ask him about it if you want. The images may also be available to anyone who has a decrypted ROM, scattered around the file structure.
:Beyond that, though, there were still problems with your latest reasoning. Mainly, if, with the 'normal' "poking/prodding", you were referring to when you just tap once on the Pokemon, then that's defintely not "poking/prodding"; that exact same effect happens when you tap away from the Pokemon too. And IMO, there's much more to the "hit" SFX than just a shortened rubbing SFX.
:At any rate, though...it's definitely something we should continue to discuss here or on Amie's talk page (where it'd be easier for random people to join) rather than risk edit warring about it. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 17:46, 2 March 2016 (UTC)

== User possibly abusing multiple accounts ==

Hello, I believe that the user Lukeno94 is using this account when they already have one. In a comment on "Talk:ROM Hacks" it said something about not being able to access their old account. I'm telling you about this because it's against policies so you or any other admin can decide what should be done.[[User:Sly Fox|Sly Fox]] ([[User talk:Sly Fox|talk]]) 18:21, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

== EXs & Breaks of Fates Collide. ==

Hi, there. I need to clarify something and I didn't want to bother Maverick Nate. Is it okay if I remove all the EXs and BREAKs added today to the english set list for now? Users are always told here to not copy information from other sites, specially PokéBeach. And I'm pretty sure the user who added those cards only did it because he saw the article at PokéBeach. Other than there, I haven't seen that information anywhere else so it can't be properly confirmed. [[User:Metalizard|Metalizard]] ([[User talk:Metalizard|talk]]) 22:08, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
:Honestly, the TCG is definitely not my area of expertise. As far as [[Fates Collide (TCG)]] goes, the only judgement I can make is that Nate already visited that page, so either he thought it was okay or he didn't notice. If you were sure it was improperly sourced, though, I'd say go ahead. But in short, it may be best to ask Nate anyway. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 22:27, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
::Ones revealed via images are ''fine''{{tt|*|I guess. ugh}}. The ones revealed via text on other sites are not and should honestly be removed however, since false information is frequently posted on said sites (I'm pretty sure N kept getting removed because a certain site said it ''wasn't'' a part of the main expansion, which isn't true.) Feel free to remove it. ''[[User:Maverick Nate|'''Maverick''']][[User talk:Maverick Nate|'''Nate''']]'' 22:50, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
:::Thanks both of you for answering. I was just confused and started wondering if the cards had actually been confirmed somewhere else. [[User:Metalizard|Metalizard]] ([[User talk:Metalizard|talk]]) 02:22, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

==Need a small favor==
Since we both have done some good work for the Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire page, could you come over to my talk page and participate in the recent discussion regarding an edit I had to revert for a noble reason on the ORAS page. -[[User:Tyler53841|Tyler53841]] ([[User talk:Tyler53841|talk]]) 01:01, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

== 'File appearance ==

I wanna be a Glitch {{PK}}{{MN}}. You don't understand. {{unsigned|Scooterscanley}}
:No offense, but if you're just joking, there was no need for this comment. (I only mention this because you [[Special:Diff/2413158|just previously]] made another idle comment. I just want you to understand that talk pages are meant for ''improving'' the wiki.)
:If you're not joking: categories are reserved for pages that ''belong'' there. User pages only belong in categories like {{cat|User groups}}. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 22:21, 12 March 2016 (UTC)
ALSO: Any advice for TMs/HMs? Whenever I preview my profile page, all it displays is all the text I've entered. [[User:Scooterscanley|scooterscanley]] ([[User talk:Scooterscanley|talk]]) 18:22, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
:Your header and footer only have one "}" at the end; it should be two ("}}"). [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 18:45, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
::Ah. Also, why does it say "Character for Old man glitch", and why is the Johto Guard Glitch/Time Capsule Exploit excluded?[[User:Scooterscanley|scooterscanley]] ([[User talk:Scooterscanley|talk]]) 19:20, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
:::I would guess the Old man glitch part is the same as the Mew special stat thing, it's what you need to get that glitch 'mon using that glitch. The Time Capsule exploit part that's in the regular GlitchPkmnInfobox template isn't there simply because that template was updated after the Nocat version was split off. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 23:58, 13 March 2016 (UTC)

== re. Fury Swipes ==

I made the change because as it stands, it's implying that three and only three hits is the most probable outcome, which is not true: it has the same probability as two hits at 37.5% each. It means to say that three or more hits is likely (37.5% + 12.5% + 12.5% for a 62.5% chance of three plus hits). This yields an above average likelihood that the power yield will be 18 × 3 or more, resting on an average power of 54.

I'm not sure what is confusing about this, especially given the ''current'' wording. [[User:DKqwerty|DKqwerty]] ([[User talk:DKqwerty|talk]]) 19:52, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
:If you performed the move 100 times, you'd likely get 300 hits. That averages to 3 hits every time the move is used. That's what an {{wp|average}} usually is, an {{wp|arithmetic mean}}. You're talking about {{wp|mode (statistics)|mode}}. The current wording is perfectly correct and/or adequate. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 20:05, 13 March 2016 (UTC)

== Oddish debut ==

I feel that something is overlooked. It says in [[GDZ25]] that another Trainer owns the Oddish instead of Shu while Shu's page mentioned that he owns the Oddish in that chapter. Can you clarify which chapter is the actual debut for Shu's Oddish? [[User:Pattyman|Patty]][[User talk:Pattyman|Man]] 21:58, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
:Actually, at the end of the chapter, the unnamed Trainer offers Shu his Oddish as an apology for what it did. I guess I never gave it much thought. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 22:25, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

== Category ==
Hey Tiddlywinks! Just a thought, but to my knowledge there aren't any pages or categories putting all the moves available in Pokémon Conquest in one place. Since there aren't any new moves introduced in Conquest, would it be appropriate to make a category for these moves?--[[User:Wowy|'''Wowy''']][[User talk:Wowy|'''(토크)''']] 00:23, 15 March 2016 (UTC)
:That sounds good (and easy, with the move template). I'll just double-check it with other staff real quick and hopefully I can make that happen. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 00:33, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

== Sentences ending with prepositions ==

Hello, you recently reverted an edit made to Gengar's page. Is it really okay to end a sentence with a preposition? My English teacher made it very clear that a sentence should never end with one.[[User:Sly Fox|Sly Fox]] ([[User talk:Sly Fox|talk]]) 23:26, 20 March 2016 (UTC)
:Yes, it's okay. With all due respect to your teacher(s), that rule just doesn't match normal English discourse. I don't even mean "casual" discourse. I mean, no matter how formal almost anyone is trying to be, there's just ''no'' way they're going to put enough thought into their speech to avoid prepositions at the end of a sentence. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 23:33, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

== I know they're not remakes. ==

My point was, they could've changed it just like the Pikachu minigame thing. The only reason I brought it up was that they left the game corner unchanged, despite gambling laws forcing them to change/remove them in other games. I hope this clears things up. [[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 18:47, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
:The primary problem with what you wrote, sure, was implying that the VC games were remakes. Beyond that, I'm not entirely certain what's rightest, but I lean against it just because "no change" should pretty much be the expectation. One place it'd be more directly relevant/notable, though, is [[Pokémon controversy#Gambling]]. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 20:00, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

== Template:Pokémon Infobox ==

Hi, I was just wondering if it would be possible for someone to please edit [[Template:Pokémon Infobox]] to account for the unique names of the [[Form differences|alternate forms]] belonging to {{p|Zygarde}} and {{p|Hoopa}} (similar to [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Template%3APok%C3%A9mon_Infobox&type=revision&diff=1978734&oldid=1954090 what was done] for {{p|Charizard}} and {{p|Mewtwo}}'s dual [[Mega Evolution]]s); as it is now, the template displays them kind of backwards. I can't edit the template myself as it's protected.

[[User:Xérnéas|Xérnéas]] ([[User talk:Xérnéas|talk]]) 07:13, 23 March 2016 (UTC)
:It's protected for good reason. A template with such heavy use (and so complicated as well) is not wise for anyone (even staff) to edit freely. It's not the highest priority, but we should get around to it...eventually. We still need to update the hatch time calculation, too. =P [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 23:57, 24 March 2016 (UTC)

== [[User talk:Mygs#Spelling, capitalization, etc|Just a heads up]] ==

I think you might have meant to say "'''Café''' is the proper spelling" instead of "Cafe"--[[User:Cold|Cold]] ([[User talk:Cold|talk]]) 04:55, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
:Yeah, I thought I did =P , thanks. I worded that first one differently at first, and then when I came to make it like others I wrote below, I must have screwed it up. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 04:59, 24 March 2016 (UTC)

== help identifying a weird glow in battle ==

Lately I've been encountering a strange ominous red glow on Pokemon in the Battle Spot, and all my attempts to search for the cause leads to incorrect search results and several rule 34 results. I seem to encounter it on Shiny Pokémon a lot. Here is a Vs Recorder of a battle I encountered it, watch the Mismagius.

CU8G-WWWW-WW3S-AMTR

It looks like either eyes or ribbon loops[[User:Yamitora1|Yamitora1]] ([[User talk:Yamitora1|talk]]) 13:36, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

:Further in the battle the same red eyes or ribbon loops appear on a shiny Umbreon [[User:Yamitora1|Yamitora1]] ([[User talk:Yamitora1|talk]]) 13:40, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
::https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFLOB_LkEFo [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 14:21, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
:::Thank you[[User:Yamitora1|Yamitora1]] ([[User talk:Yamitora1|talk]]) 11:26, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

== Slowpoke as a Water Bear ==

Nah, that was the right link. I mean, it may look strange but I'm sure they're based (not only psychically) on Water Bears (AKA tardigrades): they have similar body and limbs shapes; Slowpoke, and Slowbro, both have some ursine characteristics (suggesting a pun) and the name Tardigrada itself means "slow stepper".

I'd like to ask you to reconsider this one.
[[User:ExLight|ExLight]] ([[User talk:ExLight|talk]]) 19:15, 5 April 2016 (UTC)
:What I see is eight limbs and segmented bodies, and ''mandibles''. And they're miscroscopic. I could go on... They're pretty much nothing like Slowpoke.
:Your pun is fairly abstract. In the absence of any other stronger connections, it just comes off as a stretch to me. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 20:13, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

== Help in editing my discussion page ==

I want to clear the content of my discussion (talk) page but a error message came Vandal Filter 3 and asking an administrator to do that. Please help! [[User:Subhraneel|Subhraneel]] ([[User talk:Subhraneel|talk]]) 03:47, 9 April 2016 (UTC)Subhraneel
:Well, in the first place, people aren't really supposed to "remove" a talk page's contents anyway. What we ask users do as an alternative is [[Bulbapedia:Talk page policy#Archiving user talk pages|archive]] their talk page. Try that. =) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 04:19, 9 April 2016 (UTC)

== Quick question about pkmn template links ==

Should these be actively replaced? Part of the reason I decided to use {{template|pkmn}} (for the Pokémaniac and Tuber pages at least) was because every other Gen VI trainer class page used it in their "Art from"/"Appears in" bits and I wanted to be consistent.--[[User:Cold|Cold]] ([[User talk:Cold|talk]]) 19:39, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
:I didn't exactly think all that far about it ( ^^; ). I was just thinking I didn't want to leave those changes and thereby "encourage" more use of pkmn for anyone who might see those. But if it's really used so regularly, it'd certainly be best if we could replace it with a proper game template.
:...Assuming I'm not just being "silly" about this distinction. =P I had this idea someone told me not to use "pkmn" before, but it may be I just imagined that (I can't find where that might have been from a brief search). [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 19:53, 10 April 2016 (UTC)

== Re: New pages/notability ==

Oh, sorry about that. Just thought that since Bulbapedia was a primary place for people to look stuff up, it should have full lists for Battle Maison stuff. I wanted to add the quotes for Trainers since there seemed to be a lot of fascination around those on the web.

And on the topic of keeping up-to-date info (despite almost being Gen VI), can you look at the [[Cute (condition)]], [[Cool (condition)]], [[Beauty (condition)]], [[Clever (condition)]] and [[Tough (condition)]] page? I made fully-working tables updated for ORAS a while ago and left them on each of the discussion pages until the mods decide to update. Thanks. [[User:TehPerson|TehPerson]] ([[User talk:TehPerson|talk]]) 01:06, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
: Also, I know you said there was nothing wrong about the Trainers and Pokemon page, but the code is extremely hefty. Editing would be so much less laggy if I could use one template instead of 5ish newlines per entry. [[User:TehPerson|TehPerson]] ([[User talk:TehPerson|talk]]) 01:08, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
::For future reference, if someone posts on your talk page, respond there. (If everyone went back and forth, each person's talk page would only be half a conversation. =P ) Conversations should be kept in one place.
::When a page gets to a certain size, it just gets unwieldy, and I don't think templates necessarily help. But how much information have you still not included? Are you still gathering information somehow? (And/or how?) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 01:21, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

== repeated links ==

In [[Route 124]] Surf is linked in items, but it also linked in the right side bar. So it's already linked twice? {{unsigned|EternalDragonX}}
:The infobox can usually be "ignored" for that sort of consideration. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 14:19, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

== But a Lucky Punch doesn't work on Happiny. ==

Shouldn't this fact just be on Chansey's page? [[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 05:43, 15 April 2016 (UTC)
:First off, don't put part of your conversation as a discussion title. That's not what a title is for, and it just becomes easy to miss, as well. If you can't think of what you should put, just use the page name where your issue originates (like "Happiny").
:As to your question: It's talking about the family. I think it's fine. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 06:37, 15 April 2016 (UTC)

== That Colosseum thing. ==

I don't understand your explanation for removing this:
Also, any Pokémon absent from {{game|Ruby and Sapphire|s}} that are in Colosseum (whether they're catchable or not) were all introduced in Generation II.

To elaborate, the only gen 1 Pokemon trainers used were the ones that were in Ruby & Sapphire (from this list) [http://serebii.net/rubysapphire/hoennpokedex.shtml], such as Zubat, Geodude, and Tentacool. Anything from gen 1 that's not on the list, such as Onix, Porygon, and Snorlax were not used by any trainers.

You said:

It's mostly expected that a pair of games opening a generation lets you catch all the new Pokemon. That only leaves Gen I & II, so the last part is obvious/not notable

I fail to understand what makes it obvious. Can you please elaborate? Thanks. [[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 15:48, 16 April 2016 (UTC)
:You've already excluded Gen I with the start of your point. So it very literally doesn't need saying that any Pokemon not in RS are from Gen II: that's the only (reasonable) possibility! [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 16:06, 16 April 2016 (UTC)
::Okay, I get what you're saying. But just so we're clear, you do understand I'm talking ''about your opponents'' & not the player, right? [[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 16:11, 16 April 2016 (UTC)
:::I have no idea what distinction you're trying to make.
:::Also, please use ":"s to indent your responses one space farther in than the previous reply. It should be simple enough to understand if you look at the code here when you reply. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 16:15, 16 April 2016 (UTC)
::::Sorry, force of habit; another wiki I use doesn't enforce it.
::::So you still don't get my explanation, huh? Hmm... Okay, you know how only 200 Pokemon are obtainable in Ruby & Sapphire? (See this [http://serebii.net/rubysapphire/hoennpokedex.shtml] for which ones) Some of the Pokemon from gen 1 couldn't be caught or seen in either game.
::::Now you know how when you see a Pokemon in Colosseum, it gets registered into your [[P★DA]] (like a Pokedex)? Well, let's say you battle every single trainer and snag every Pokemon. Now if you look at your P★DA, the only gen 1 Pokemon you'll find are the ones on that list I gave you. There was no way to get Raticate & such on there until Firered & Leafgreen came out. If you still don't understand, which part(s) don't you get? [[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 16:28, 16 April 2016 (UTC)
:::::(Reminder: ''Use preview'' and/or use the indent on your ''whole'' response, please.)
:::::I never assumed you were talking about Pokemon traded in from another game. That kind of ''completely'' ruins any point. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 16:33, 16 April 2016 (UTC)
::::::Technically I wasn't talking about trading; I only brought up FR/LG because I didn't know how to explain it any better, and I still don't. Also, if we keep indenting, won't it get a little... messy? [[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 16:39, 16 April 2016 (UTC)
:::::::There's nothing "messy" about indentation. What's messy is mixing it back and forth (or not using it at all).
:::::::If you can't understand what you're trying to say well enough, then I'm sorry, but I just can't exert myself too hard to try to understand you in your confusion. As far as I'm concerned, this whole conversation has basically been about Pokemon obtainable ''within'' Colosseum alone. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 16:45, 16 April 2016 (UTC)
::::::::Oh, so you still think this is about obtainable Pokemon? That would explain the confusion. I'm not talking about that at all; I'm talking about Pokemon you can battle, but '''can't actually catch'''. For example, Lady Venus has a Steelix & Vileplume but you can't actually get one. However, they still get registered to your P★DA just from battling her. [[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 16:51, 16 April 2016 (UTC)
:::::::::Then I'm just going to say it's not important. Or too complicated to be important. Obtainable Pokemon? Sure. Just encounters? If it's not ''very'' straightforward (very easy, simple, perhaps "natural" delineations), it's not really worth noting. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 16:59, 16 April 2016 (UTC)
::::::::::Okay, well, at least you finally get it. Even if you don't add it, I'm just glad I finally explained myself. Sorry about the whole thing; I'm not always good with words. I'm usually either too specific or too vague. Thanks for talking this through. I hope I wasn't a bother.[[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 17:03, 16 April 2016 (UTC)

== Re: Battle area templates ==

Thank you for making the battlearea templates. That should help save a lot of memory when editing. I have created a [[User:TehPerson/Lop/Battlearea-head|header]] and [[User:TehPerson/Lop/Battlearea-foot|footer]] to go along. They are different, but hopefully an improvement on, what already exists. [[User:TehPerson|TehPerson]] ([[User talk:TehPerson|talk]]) 18:11, 16 April 2016 (UTC)

== King's Rock ==
Ooooohhhh right, it doesn't mean Hariyamas are in Mossdeep City! Sorry for the confusion. {{unsigned|UltramanAce3245}}
:That's alright, just glad to clear it up. ^_^ [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 01:30, 17 April 2016 (UTC)

== Pokken Pages ==

Thanks for the advice! If I find some free time soon, I might start up those pages but we'll see. As for your question about the arenas, the only thing different about them other than scenery is shape and size (which can actually have a large impact on the fighting itself). I actually just got the game yesterday so I haven't even unlocked them all yet, haha. The way I see it, either there could be a page for each arena, or just an "Arena" page that lists them out and describes them briefly. Either way, I do think it should be separated from the Pokken page at some point. [[User:Swiftgallade46|Swiftgallade46]] ([[User talk:Swiftgallade46|talk]]) 06:49, 18 April 2016 (UTC)
:And if it'll get split, someone has to start it. =P Someone else could do it tomorrow, perfectly! But we can't really bet on that. If everyone waits, nothing will ever get done! If you decide to start something on a userpage, feel free to make whatever choice you want, an individual arena or a list; we can see what happens. ^_^ [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 07:08, 18 April 2016 (UTC)
::After getting some more information, it might be best to start out trying a list. Just make a section for each arena, with a basic, overall description I guess (and/or whatever you can think of that you think is notable), and then I suppose the bulk of the section would be taken up by background Pokemon. (If you don't see this before you start a page, though, and you make an individual arena page, no biggie, we can still see what's what and then maybe try starting a list.) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 16:06, 18 April 2016 (UTC)

== So what IS an acceptable source? And can you prove it has Flame Body? ==

http://wayback.archive.org/web/20140213193237/http://www.smogon.com/bw/pokemon/moltres

Smogon also states Flame Body. Can you prove which is the correct ability? [[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 02:48, 19 April 2016 (UTC)
:Smogon's alright.
:It's weird, I tried looking back, and I can't find any good reason it was added. ''We'' said Flame Body in Gen V. Then all of a sudden a "note" is added for Flash Fire recently. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 03:33, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

== Re: Japanese names ==

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJ3ixRedaa0 Korean Ending], [http://www.pocketmonsters.net/episodes/viewep/1697 Pocketmonsters.net], [https://translate.google.es/#ja/en/%E7%94%B0%E4%B8%AD%E4%B8%80%E7%9C%9F%0A%E5%86%A8%E5%AE%89%E5%A4%A7%E8%B2%B4 Google Translate]. --[[User:DarkPikaDex123|DarkPikaDex123]] ([[User talk:DarkPikaDex123|talk]]) 23:31, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

== Miscrediting of anime animation directors ==

Hi, I noticed that the anime episode infoboxes have credited some people wrongly as animation directors (作画監督) when they should have been assistant animation directors (作画監督補佐). I have [[Special:Diff/2430901|corrected]] one such case, but it seems that this may be more common than I think. For example:

*[[XY002]]: 田島瑞穂, 松田真路 and one more person not in the infobox are actually credited as assistant animation director in the anime
*[[XY003]]: 堤舞 and 松永香苗 are actually credited as assistant animation director in the anime
*[[XY009]]: 岩根雅明 is actually credited as assistant animation director

I looked around and saw one example in [[DP063]] (comparing against [[Anime_staff_by_episode_(DP061-DP070)#DP063]]), which does not have this problem, but then again, this is from a previous series, so I am not sure if it is some guideline/policy introduced with the XY series and want to clarify what the correct way should be, before I go about correcting the other articles. [[User:Chenzw|Chenzw]] ([[User talk:Chenzw|talk]]) 12:58, 20 April 2016 (UTC)
:There is another problem when the episode credits the executive animation director (総作画監督) and assistant executive animation directors (総作画監督補佐). The credits screen places these staff on a higher position than animation directors (作画監督), but it is not necessarily reflected in the episode's infobox, where they are all credited as animation directors (作画監督):
:Example in [[XY106]]: 志村泉 and 松永香苗, who served as assistant executive animation directors in that episode, not only are miscredited in the infobox, but are also placed below 岩根雅明 in the infobox. [[User:Chenzw|Chenzw]] ([[User talk:Chenzw|talk]]) 14:59, 20 April 2016 (UTC)
::<s>There is currently no particular policy regarding your question. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 03:02, 21 April 2016 (UTC)</s>
::The verdict is that only those credited as a plain animation director should be listed as such in the infobox. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 03:23, 21 April 2016 (UTC)
:::Ok, thank you for the clarification! [[User:Chenzw|Chenzw]] ([[User talk:Chenzw|talk]]) 03:27, 21 April 2016 (UTC)
::::I ran into another edge case on [[SS026]]: there is no animation director listed in the credits, but 総作画監督 is listed (although this is translated to "executive animation director" on Bulbapedia, now I am not sure if the translation is fully correct; the "総" taken in context, could mean either "lead", or "chief"). How should the episode infobox be filled in, in this case? I have added the executive animation directors to the infobox for now. [[User:Chenzw|Chenzw]] ([[User talk:Chenzw|talk]]) 08:10, 21 April 2016 (UTC)
:::::That sounds fine to me (if there's no position X in the credits, then the next highest position is appropriate/acceptable), but I'll have to double-check with others to be sure. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 14:54, 21 April 2016 (UTC)
:::::Yeah, it's fine. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 20:19, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

== "Not unique = not notable" ==

You say that a lot, but I'd like to mention a few things:

{{p|Noibat}}
Noibat and its evolution Noivern are the only dual Flying-type Pokémon to have Flying as their primary type.

{{p|Aegislash}}
No other Pokémon has the same [[List of Pokémon with unique type combinations|type combination]] as Aegislash and its {{p|Honedge|evolutionary}} {{p|Doublade|relatives}}.

[[DP072]]
This episode marks one of the extremely rare instances that Ash ever intentionally hurts a Pokémon, as he kicks J's Drapion in the face in order to escape from its claws.

I could name more examples, but I just want to ask, why are these considered special exceptions? Just out of curiosity. [[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 16:49, 21 April 2016 (UTC)
:Unique to, at most, a single Pokemon family.
:I hardly know the anime, certainly not enough to have any real idea about Ash's habit or lack thereof of abusing Pokemon. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 16:56, 21 April 2016 (UTC)
::Well then why isn't the anime thing notable for Porygon2 and Porygon-Z? [[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 16:58, 21 April 2016 (UTC)
:::I have no idea what "anime" thing there was for Porygon2/Porygon-Z. There was a Melee thing and there was a TCG thing. (And "not unique = not notable" was only referring to the latter.) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 17:04, 21 April 2016 (UTC)
::::Oops, I meant to say ''voice'', not anime. [[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 17:07, 21 April 2016 (UTC)
:::::That wasn't at all about being unique or not. Like I said in the edit summary, the point was ''contradictory''. We can't keep something contradictory on the page, and since it contradicted itself I wasn't sure what the point was really ''supposed'' to be, so all that was left was pretty much to remove it. If the intended point can be expressed without being contradictory, then it may be possible to judge if it's actually notable. (If you want to try to do that, I'd ask you to do it here in case there are any further questions, just so it doesn't spark multiple edits on that page.) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 17:09, 21 April 2016 (UTC)
:::::: Strange, I don't recall Z having a voice at all. Maybe I should just return the fact to what it originally was? [[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 17:30, 21 April 2016 (UTC)
* Porygon2 is the only one in its evolutionary family to not receive an audible voice despite having a role in [[Super Smash Bros. Melee]], where Pokémon have recorded voices. This also makes it the only one of the first 493 not to have a voice.
:::::::I'm actually wondering, why does Melee need to be mentioned? Were there other Pokemon who didn't have "audible voices" before Melee who received them in Melee? For that matter, is the whole point ''only'' supposed to be talking about Melee? Are there even 493 Pokemon in Melee—especially with "voices"? If it's not just about Melee, then is an "audible voice" or "voice" different from a [[cry]]? Because I know Porygon2 has a cry—makes a ''sound''—in Gen III and IV at least. The more I think about it, the more I have to wonder if it's not just a bad point, '''period'''... [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 17:47, 21 April 2016 (UTC)
Sorry for not indenting, but it's starting to get cluttered IMO. Anyway, you do understand that a cry and a voice are 2 different things, right? Like how Pikachu uses a voice actor in the anime, but in the games makes a weird noise (cry)? BTW, [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gx_wE6R8L_E]] Porygon2 is at 2:42ish. 19:42, 21 April 2016 (UTC)
:I see no reason I should have realized that a "voice" is not a "cry". The trivia point is pretty damn confusing if you ask me.
:''Porygon2 is the only one in its evolutionary family to not receive an audible voice despite having a role in [[Super Smash Bros. Melee]], where Pokémon have recorded voices.'' What does this mean? Does this mean, all Pokemon that appear '''''in Melee''''' except Porygon2 have a "voice"? Does it mean something else?
:''This also makes it the only one of the first 493 not to have a voice.'' What does this mean? Does this mean, ''in Melee'', the first 493 Pokemon all appear somewhere, and all but Porygon2 have a "voice"? Does it mean, in some core series game, 492 of the first 493 Pokemon have a "voice"? If the latter: which game(s)?
:I have more questions, but let's try to answer these first. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 20:02, 21 April 2016 (UTC)
::Forget the core Pokemon games. As to your questions:
::*Let's just change it to "Porygon2 is the only one in its evolutionary family to not receive an audible voice, {{tt|period|Leaving this part off the actual page, obviously|?}}."
::*... It means Porygon2 never had a human voice actor in any of the franchise, really, whether it be in the anime or a spin-off game.
::*What was the 3rd question again?
::[[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 20:32, 21 April 2016 (UTC)
:::Not notable: too small a group.
:::After looking back through the page's history, I was able to find where the point was [[Special:Diff/1249218|originally added]] and the intent becomes clearer, and that too was actually unnotable for the same reason.
:::The addition of [[Special:Diff/1544697|the latter part]] is also much clearer and is a bit like what you say above. That part is maybe notable... I just don't know if there's any Pokemon beyond the first 493 who doesn't have a "voice". If it's not unique, it's not notable. ''"Porygon2 is the only Pokémon that has never been voiced by a human voice actor"'' would be good (and clear) trivia, ''if'' it's true. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 20:40, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

So just out of curiosity, why doesn't this rule apply to the anime? I see it a lot (ex: this happens again in over say, 500 episodes later) [[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 01:15, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
:First off: I don't really know the anime.
:That said: 500 episodes is pretty long. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 01:17, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
::Mind if I chime in here, since that point came up in a potential [[Talk:XY116|trivia point]] before XY116 aired? As Tiddlywinks said, 500 epsidoes is a long time, and according to ForceFire droughts are notable. Not something I personally agree with, but it seems to be the accepted norm for the anime at this point. [[User:ChE clarinetist|ChE clarinetist]] ([[User talk:ChE clarinetist|talk]]) 01:23, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
:::Well, 718+ Pokemon's a large number. So why does it only have to apply to 1 for it to be trivia as opposed to just 2 or 4? [[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 01:50, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
::::As far as I'm concerned, if you want to argue about the games, we (you and I) can argue about the games. But if you want to argue about the anime, or use the anime to argue about the games, you should find someone more familiar with the anime for that. I can parrot and postulate, but I don't have any real "feel" for the anime. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 02:03, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
:::::Very well. I was just asking out of curiosity anyway. [[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 02:07, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

== Ice cannot be frozen in any gen ==

https://github.com/pret/pokered/blob/master/engine/battle/core.asm#L7413 
https://github.com/pret/pokecrystal/blob/master/battle/effect_commands.asm#L5433 
pokeruby has not yet the info, but if you REALLY want to, I can disassemble the relevant part in Gen 3 real quick. 
I'll make sure to use more meaningful summaries in the future, but you'll have to excuse me for being slightly -annoyed- at having to ask people to not believe Bulbapedia for any old gen related information if the article has not been updated recently, then having people revert my edits because my summaries are "not gonna cut it", while edits like the following one pose no problem, and worse they cause wrong information to be on the wiki for more than a year, and cause a lot of people to take it for true, thus I had ONCE AGAIN to expain to people that NO, they aren't going to freeze my Jynx with Ice Beam, despite whatever is written on Bulbapedia, and that NO the implementation on PS is not wrong. 
[http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Freeze_%28status_condition%29&diff=2225495&oldid=2223367 The wrong info was added by SnorlaxMonster], on December 30th 2014, with the reason "'''Not sure if Ice types can be frozen by Ice-type moves in Gen II and III'''". Now that's a '''completely valid reason''' to make that edit and to add wrong informations, right ? 
So, yeah, I'm a bit pissed right now. If my edit has a bad summary, the edit was still done, and the first thing you should have done is [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Special:Contributions/Froggy25 looking at my contributions] to conclude that I'm "not just confused or something", but that this info was removed because it was incorrect (or at the very least not on a whim), so you wouldn't have to undo my edit. [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Freeze_%28status_condition%29&diff=2431162&oldid=2431159 Also don't mark the undo as a minor edit]. If the "Hide minor edits" is active in a user's watchlist, he won't be able to see it. '''Then''' you could have [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/User_talk:Froggy25 sent me a message] on my talk page to ask the reason of the edit, and tell me to write meaningful summaries. Much better than restoring wrong info on an article, one of the too many that still has incorrect info about old gens that old gen players are trying to correct.
--[[User:Froggy25|Froggy25]] ([[User talk:Froggy25|talk]]) 15:56, 23 April 2016 (UTC)
:It's totally understandable if you're annoyed. But don't place the blame on me.
:I do actually know you from your past contributions—but the other day I sure as hell didn't know you from Adam, and some unknown going "Huh?" just ''screams'' "I'M ASSUMING!" Sure, there's various things I ''could'' have checked. But you sure as hell didn't look very trustworthy, and ''I'' sure as hell can't always do everything ''I'' might want to, so no, I really don't think any particular blame is on ''me'' for reverting you. If you want to avoid similar confusion in the future, you know how. I don't claim to be perfect, but something other than "Huh?" can only help.
:In all hope of goodwill, I do look forward to your further contributions. Like I said, I've seen you contribute good things. Just try not to take things too personally and address any confusion with all due civility. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 16:27, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

== "Cite" template from Zelda Wiki ==

I saw that Zelda wiki uses Citations as references for sources as to where does certain information comes from. [http://zeldawiki.org/Moblin#References Example]

I was wondering if we could implement that. I would love to do that. [[User:MannedTooth| MannedTooth ]] ([[User_Talk:MannedTooth|Talk]]) 19:57, 23 April 2016 (UTC)
:I don't think there's much need for something like that. And perhaps you really think it'd be good for us...but the way you've said it here, you just sound like you're on a similar track as some of the other things you've wanted to do before and that's your primary concern—and such a big change isn't likely to happen just to make one person happy. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 20:55, 23 April 2016 (UTC)
::I was just wondering. [[User:MannedTooth| MannedTooth ]] ([[User_Talk:MannedTooth|Talk]]) 21:01, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

== I got a dumb question about the {{bp|code of conduct}}... :P ==

Considering what it basically means, would actually using the phrase "WTF" actually be a violation of the code of conduct? Like I said, it is a kinda dumb question, I guess, but I just started to wonder about that. :P Thank you for your time. ----[[User:NateVirus|NateVirus]]''([[User talk:NateVirus|Talk]]''|''[[Special:Contributions/NateVirus|Contributions]]'') 22:19, 23 April 2016 (UTC)
:[[Bulbapedia:Code of conduct#What that means]]. It doesn't have to be a bad thing. (I might think, in the majority of situations it might be used, it wouldn't be too bad.) The goal isn't really to avoid "curse words", it's just like it says on the tin: Be nice. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 22:25, 23 April 2016 (UTC)
::Okay, thanks! ^_^ ----[[User:NateVirus|NateVirus]]''([[User talk:NateVirus|Talk]]''|''[[Special:Contributions/NateVirus|Contributions]]'') 17:55, 26 April 2016 (UTC)

== About Recruitable Pokémon in Dungeon ==
Hey Tiddlywinks! I noticed your recent edit about the "Recruitable Pokémon" section in Super Mystery Dungeon, and I just thought I'll bring up some discussion into this.

Regrading its notability, I think it is kinda notable since the Pokémon are recruited at different levels and importantly they can come with special moves (e.g. one of the Unown). But if the page was to have all the Pokémon listed as it is now, the page would probably become way to huge. In my opinion, I prefer the table format as it is in [[Connection Orb]], and I think adding the moves/levels into that table would probably be the most logical since it is relevant to Connecting; but the table will become even larger than it is right now (which is already big!). --[[User:Wowy|'''Wowy''']][[User talk:Wowy|'''(토크)''']] 04:07, 28 April 2016 (UTC)
:Thanks! That is a thought, putting it on [[Connection Orb]] where all the Pokemon are already listed. I've had a few questions I've remained unsure about, though, maybe you could help me out just so I can be sure?
:From what I've gathered, "connecting" in the Connection Orb is basically the new recruiting, right? And you can't (ever) recruit Pokemon by beating them in dungeons like in the past games, is that right? Also, ''anyone'' you connect with in the Connection Orb will be recruitable when you go on an expedition (give or take any who are on a "break")?
:I'm actually thinking SMD needs a bit of a rethink overall, re:connections/recruiting...
:As far as I can tell, this connection stuff is basically equivalent to availability for SMD (like [[Bulbasaur (Pokémon)#In side games]])... I'm thinking the table on Connection Orb only really needs the first four columns, and we should put the info about how to meet and/or connect with a Pokemon on its species page. I also think we should add something like a "Connections" section to all the location pages listing what Pokemon you can connect with there (and how), and maybe what Pokemon you can just meet (basically like the "Pokemon" sections of core series locations; it could even be called "Pokemon" maybe). On a dungeon page, it could say what mission (that can be done at that dungeon) can be completed to connect with a Pokemon, and it could say if any Pokemon can show up as traveling/fainted/fleeing Pokemon. And for [[Serene Village]], it could say how you can talk to [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=591BcpStAgc&t=13m23s Azumarill] in [[Café Connection]] (though I don't know ''how'' random Café Connections are...). I think this would be more appropriate and about as useful as trying to cram all that info into the same page on Connection Orb (which we really don't generally do).
:I have thoughts of mocking up a few pages (and templates) to demonstrate the idea. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 04:39, 28 April 2016 (UTC)

::Firstly, yes, "connecting" in the Connection Orb is basically the new recruiting. And yes, you can't (ever) recruit Pokemon by beating them in dungeons like in the past games. Not sure what you mean by your 3rd question but you can use any members you have connected with on a mission. I'm only very early in the game though...
::And I think all your ideas sound great and practical! :)--[[User:Wowy|'''Wowy''']][[User talk:Wowy|'''(토크)''']] 04:51, 28 April 2016 (UTC)
:::Thanks! I hate the idea of asking something burdensome of you, but it'd be great if you could keep track of what missions are at what dungeons as you play, and what Pokemon connect after completing them (since most of that isn't even filled in on Connection Orb table). When there's [[Template:PSMD locations|still whole dungeons]] without pages, I don't hold out a lot of hope that there'll be people jumping at the opportunity to fill out connection details if we add such sections. =P [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 05:03, 28 April 2016 (UTC)
::::Sure thing! I was already sort of keeping track, but as you can tell I'll be going pretty slowly because of other commitments. But better late and never. --[[User:Wowy|'''Wowy''']][[User talk:Wowy|'''(토크)''']] 05:06, 28 April 2016 (UTC)
:::::Yeah, that's totally fine! I may put some time into browsing some playthrough videos for that sort of data too, but I kind of expect it'll be hard to get complete data for some/many places by that. It'll be good if there's someone who can keep better track. ^_^ [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 08:29, 28 April 2016 (UTC)

== Non-significant "error" on [[XY114]] ==

Hi, I wonder if you could take some time to take a look at [[Talk:XY115]]? I don't think [[Special:Diff/2429091|this error]] that was added into the article is really what we can consider an "error", but more of a technical limitation due to resolution. I [[Special:Diff/2434833|removed]] one part that was obviously false, but the rest of the statement doesn't seem right, too. [[User:Chenzw|Chenzw]] ([[User talk:Chenzw|talk]]) 08:59, 28 April 2016 (UTC)
:I don't know whether it should be called a techinical limitation or what, but I kind of agree with you: it's just too far away for me to personally care about calling any of those things "errors". However, I'm really not very familiar with the anime or anything, so it would probably be best if you asked someone who is about this. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 16:55, 28 April 2016 (UTC)
::Right, thank you! [[User:Chenzw|Chenzw]] ([[User talk:Chenzw|talk]]) 17:22, 28 April 2016 (UTC)

== Web accessibility ==

Hello

Have you ever heard of [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_accessibility web accessibility] ? If not, I recommend you to read [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Accessibility this] and, especially, [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Accessibility/Data_tables_tutorial that].

[http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=List_of_Pok%C3%A9mon_Adventures_omnibus_volumes&diff=2435686&oldid=2435678 By undoing some of my changes], I think you are not very nice to impaired persons. [[User:Ju gatsu mikka|Ju gatsu mikka]] ([[User talk:Ju gatsu mikka|talk]]) 17:01, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
:I essentially reverted it because it's just not how we've done ''any'' table here (AFAIK). I will bring up the considerations you suggest with other staff members. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 17:26, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

== That error you undid. ==

Basically, Meowth is apparently a wild Pokemon, because in other episodes (like where he's supposedly fired from Team Rocket), he's been hit with a Pokeball and sucked inside, although it breaks out. But in that episode, it doesn't. You see what I'm saying?

PS: How am I supposed to know if it's a redirect? I can't tell it apart from the real one. [[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 23:43, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
:The Poke Ball was originally thrown at Kabutops and then deflected/rejected. As far as I'm concerned, that means it doesn't ''have'' to "activate" when it hits Meowth. If there's any particular reason to think otherwise, please let me know.
:Visit both of these links: [[Pokeball]] and [[Poké Ball]]. If you compare them both, you can easily see the difference. Specifically, look right under the article title. It says. If you just follow the links you're making, you can easily check if it's a redirect. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 23:55, 1 May 2016 (UTC)

== Connection ==
Hey Tiddlywinks. Just wanted to note a few things before you make any changes to SMD related pages. I was comparing my missions with youtube videos, and I noticed a few differences.
*The location of the mission can differ (e.g. Ralts mission [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYFfUdpH8Mc] vs. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms9HzXa2aH8]). I think the locations may be fixed to certain limited locations since mine was the same as one of them, and not all locations are open at the start. This means that the idea of putting which Pokemon can be connected with on specific location pages might not work.
However, things that do appear fixed:
*The type of mission
*The reward after a mission (I don't know if you want to include this info to wherever the mission info will be moved to)
*The difficulty of the mission (I don't know if you want to include this info somewhere too)

Also what do you mean by "set 3 contains 809 Pokémon" on the Connection Orb page?--[[User:Wowy|'''Wowy''']][[User talk:Wowy|'''(토크)''']] 00:53, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
:Awesome, thanks for finding that and letting me know! If you might be up for experimenting, maybe you could see if there's any way to soft-reset and change where a Pokemon's mission is set. (Maybe you have to soft-reset to before their mission-posting requirement has been met.) It'd be really interesting to know how many locations most missions are limited to (especially if all the dungeons have been unlocked), just a few or a lot (or ''any'') or what? If it's a lot, it may indeed be less useful to try to list a dungeon's missions...
:I took 809 from a quick look at a number I already had from a step in my process, not realizing that it was actually something like the total number of Pokemon in the first two rows of the table, instead of just the number of individual rows/"nodes". I completely spaced on how big the number I was writing actually was. =P [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 01:14, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

== How was that too specific? (Pikachu) ==

Pikachu is the only Pokémon to have 2 of its base stats increased in [[Generation VI]]. Specifically, its Defense and Sp. Def

If it's the last part, why didn't you just delete it? [[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 21:17, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
:I was thinking...stuff? I've re-added and reworded it. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 22:31, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
::Okay, thanks. One more thing, over here on the ability page [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Ability_variations&curid=119361&diff=2442103&oldid=2439797]. Please tell me you I'm misunderstanding that last part. >_> [[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 22:52, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
:::What? (I don't understand.) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 23:15, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
(and no one else "matters")
::::(Sorry for not indenting; I can't seem to do it with the box) [[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 23:24, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
:::::That doesn't tell me what you're misunderstanding...
:::::If some random site says they were variations or something, that's completely irrelevant to our page. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 23:30, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
::::::I was interpreting it as you meant nobody matters except you. And I didn't get the info from any site or anywhere else; I've noticed the connection years ago; I only said it was removed for consistency purposes. [[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 23:35, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
:::::::I wrote "''us''"...
:::::::Overcoat wasn't removed. No one removed anything. That table didn't exist until you put it there, just as it appears now (''without'' Overcoat). Even if it had been removed at some point, ''saying'' it was "removed" wouldn't be the way to note it. (No one cares. We only describe the end result, not someone saying, "Hey, this needed to be removed.") [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 23:50, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
::::::::My apologies; I just assumed from [[move variations]] (like [[move variations#Blizzard|Blizzard]]) that it was the same type of thing. [[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 23:58, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
:::::::::It is. But if you saw an example on move variations, it would have been much less confusing if you had copied that example better. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 00:01, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
::::::::::Yeah, I don't know why I didn't mention it sooner. Sorry I bothered you. [[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 00:06, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

== Re:[[Bewitching Tunnel]] ==

The latter. It was not acceptable? [[User:S U O M I|S U O M I]] ([[User talk:S U O M I|talk]]) 12:32, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
:Yeah, generally, our convention is that a page starts with its official English name, but if we only know the official Japanese name, then we only include the Japanese parts at the beginning. (For example, see [[M19]], which has not been released outside of Japan yet.) It may be more convenient sometimes to use the translation/unofficial name in the text afterwards (and for the page title), but it's intended that someone eventually figure out the official English name, and putting the unofficial name there just confuses that.
:Also, for future reference, please try to keep conversations in one place rather than moving back and forth between different talk pages. Thanks. =) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 12:43, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

==Need your help with something==
A little trick I've been noticing on X and Y is that if in one of the areas where one of the "electric mice" (Pikuchu, Plusle, Minun, Pachirisu, Emolga, and Dedenne) appears and if one of them (or Pichu or Raichu) is at the front of your party then they appear in a battle more often (I've did a recent check and found they kept appearing most of the time when Raichu was at the front of my party, in fact it helped me make it easier to get a Light Ball from Pikachu). I need a second opinion on this, and how to best approach this situation, as I don't know if this was intended or a simple game glitch (nor will I resort to speculation). -[[User:Tyler53841|Tyler53841]] ([[User talk:Tyler53841|talk]]) 05:51, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
:Have you tested it thoroughly with all of the "electric mice"? It sounds like it's just {{a|Static}}, but Plusle, Minun, Pachirisu, and Dedenne don't have Static. If this doesn't actually work with them, then yeah, it's probably Static, but otherwise, you'd want to test other things. Like can they draw ''any'' Electric-type, or just fellow mice? Can ''any'' Electric-type draw the mice/Electric-types? And it's always nice if you can give some hard numbers too. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 06:15, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
:Yup, Static. But anyway have a nice day. -[[User:Tyler53841|Tyler53841]] ([[User talk:Tyler53841|talk]]) 13:50, 14 May 2016 (UTC)

==FireRed and LeafGreen page==
When you have a chance could you go over the FireRed and LeafGreen and make any relevant changes to improve its quality. While it may have been the banned user SatoMew2 that originally posted the cleanup tags, I think if someone can improve quality then it can warrant the need to remove those tags and since you are better at sentence structure than I am, I think you can do a better a job when you have the time seeing how we both worked on Omega and Alpha Sapphire's page and you did a good job of improving quality (to which I won't complain as I understand your reasons). -[[User:Tyler53841|Tyler53841]] ([[User talk:Tyler53841|talk]]) 05:04, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
:I've taken a look at it. I'm trying to focus on other things for a bit, but I'll try to get back to it. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 16:51, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
::Good luck with your other work, and remember as I said above it's no rush in dealing with the changes, since you can do it when you ready. -[[User:Tyler53841|Tyler53841]] ([[User talk:Tyler53841|talk]]) 16:56, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

== EXP yield changes in Gen VI ==

I thought you might want to know about this because you are working on a modified version of the infobox template in your userspace: there are some Pokémon who have had their experience yields adjusted again in Gen VI. Examples of some species which I have discovered so far are: Pikachu, Raichu, Nidoking, Nidoqueen. The current version of the infobox template only allows for "splitting" of these values between Gen 1-3, Gen 4, and Gen 5. Please consider highlighting this issue further upwards. [[User:Chenzw|Chenzw]] ([[User talk:Chenzw|talk]]) 14:16, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
:From what I've gathered, you have some experience with 3DS/ROM modding or somesuch. If you would be able to dump various stats for Pokemon from the Gen VI games and link me the output somewhere (like just some file sharing site, or pastebin), I'd be happy to process the info and consider your suggestion.
:If you can dump all sorts of base stats and such beyond just the experience yield (like catch rate, base friendship, exp growth, egg groups, egg cycles, gender ratio, species, color, body type, base exp, EVs, type, height/weight, base stats), that'd be neat too. I ask just because, personally, I'd like to be able to verify the data on our pages if the need arises. I don't know if you'd know where all of those bits of data are, but any you could dump would be great. =) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 16:51, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
::Hi, [http://pastebin.com/vCwfgWjf here's the dump]. All of this would not have been possible were it not for the efforts of Kaphotics and those folks at Project Pokemon, so a lot of the credit really goes to them - I only made some modifications to allow for a more complete dump.
::Some notes about the output:
::*Gender ratio corresponds to the table on [[Personality value]]
::*Height/weight are in metric units
::I can't find the location for the body type data; for Species (I assume you meant that bit about whether it is a Fox/Mouse/<whatever> Pokemon?), this text is stored somewhere else in the game data, and I will put up another separate dump later tomorrow. [[User:Chenzw|Chenzw]] ([[User talk:Chenzw|talk]]) 17:32, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
:::Cool, thanks! I'll digest that in a while. And I guess Species is probably straightforwardly in the text dumps which have been floating around for long enough already, actually. I kind of just threw out (almost) everything I could think of. =P [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 22:51, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

== Your revert on [[Captivate (move)]] ==

I removed that part because it was already addressed in the second statement: "It will fail if the target has the Ability Oblivious, '''is the same gender as the user''', or either or both Pokémon are genderless." Please reconsider your revert. [[User:Chenzw|Chenzw]] ([[User talk:Chenzw|talk]]) 16:19, 24 May 2016 (UTC)
:It certainly should not be reverted. Even if the ''next'' sentence says that it fails if they're opposite genders, that's simply "too late"; mention of such a core requirement should not be deferred like that. On {{m|Attract}}, we certainly wouldn't say that it causes the target to become infatuated, period, and for {{m|Synchronoise}}, we wouldn't say that it damages all adjacent Pokemon, period; and then only in the following sentence mention that, oh, by the way, it doesn't work on [these] Pokemon... That's just not appropriate for these sorts of moves.
:As the section stands, it's hardly terrible; the second sentence is simply listing all the cases where it fails. However, if it's really such a problem for you, what you could do is remove the mention in the second sentence. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 16:35, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

== The nightmare trivia ==

Why did you remove the trivia at [[The Nightmare]]? I do understand that it's already made clear that the Pokémon mentioned in that point is already in the Pokémon encountered section, but what is not clear is that they're connected to happiness. So that's why I think the trivia should stay, so once again why was it removed? --[[User:Raltseye|Ralts]][[User talk:Raltseye|eye]] 07:59, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
:In general, I think the point was leaning a bit more subjective than not, and I think it's easy ''enough'' to look at the table and just see, "Yeah...most of those don't look very scary." [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 15:53, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

== About the Item template ==

Hey, I was wondering about the Item template, I've noticed when I was previewing my edit on the [[Seed]] page, I noticed that the <code><nowiki>|sprite3=Seed VI</nowiki></code> was not working. So it made me realize that the Item template is missing a <code><nowiki>{{#if:{{{sprite2|}}}|{{{{#if:{{{mdex|}}}|Md}}bag|{{{sprite3|{{{name|Cancel}}}</nowiki></code> code or something like that. I'm terrible with programming, but like I said earlier, I am willing to learn. Also, I have many models of items that I can upload, if everyone is okay with that. Is it okay if I upload the models of items from Gates to Infinity and Super Mystery Dungeon? —[[User:Platinum Lucario|Platinum Lucario]] ([[User talk:Platinum Lucario|talk]]) 22:02, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
:I don't know if we necessarily want ''lots'' of sprites in the item templates.
:You've already gotten permission to upload captured 3DS images. If you have any further questions about uploading, you may want to ask someone who's specifically on the Archives staff. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 23:15, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

== Alola/Melemele Pokédex ==

I noticed you removed my reference to the Melemele Pokédex with the comment "Please, do not assume. It's only been shown in Japanese." Since when are we not allowed to include Japanese names for things that don't have confirmed English names? Unless you're taking issue with me romanizing メレメレ as Melemele, in which case you should know that "melemele" is Hawaiian for yellow. Given that the region is based on Hawaii, "assuming" that メレメレ refers to the Hawaiian word "melemele" is just as reasonable as "assuming" that the パルレ in [[Pokémon Amie]]'s Japanese name refers to the French word "parler". If you really want to be anal about it by all means keep it as "Meremere" for the time being, but I see no reason not to include it just because it's not the English name.--[[User:Siobonbon|Siobonbon]] ([[User talk:Siobonbon|talk]]) 07:59, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
:First off, please do understand that we do not wish to present (romanized) Japanese names in a way that people might mistake them as official English names for things. In the past, that may have been kind of necessary in our coverage of the core games, since the English might not be fully revealed when the Japanese games were already out; but the core games are currently being released/introduced simultaneously worldwide, so that's not really a problem anymore.
:Otherwise... I kind of took the simplest approach at the time. I feel that waiting isn't ''so'' terrible a thing. (Sure, Melemele/Yellow seems pretty reasonable...but there's always that niggling fear of an alternative you didn't see, especially at this point in the "game".) But on your insistence, I'll take the [[Special:Diff/2455576|middling option]]. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 16:14, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

== Trainer's Choice ==

I will acknowledge that much of what I wrote was unnecessary for a concise summation. But I would like to know by what reasoning anything I put down was 'outright wrong.' --[[User:The Dreamer|The Dreamer]] ([[User talk:The Dreamer|talk]]) 16:35, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
:For AG052: ''Incorrect; while Torkoal's {{t|Fire}}-Type makes him strong against the {{t|Grass}}-Type Shiftry, Taillow's {{t|Flying}}-Type is both strong against and resists Grass.'' The thing is, Fire also resists Grass. Taillow isn't special in that. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 16:41, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
::Ah, an oversight on my part. Thank you for the clarification. --[[User:The Dreamer|The Dreamer]] ([[User talk:The Dreamer|talk]]) 16:42, 9 June 2016 (UTC)

== I just don't understand ==

Why is it that they tell me to add noteworthy facts, which I did for [[Bibarel]] and [[Combee]], and then have it reverted. I don't get it![[User:Theexploringgamer|Theexploringgamer]] ([[User talk:Theexploringgamer|talk]]) 19:53, 12 June 2016 (UTC)
:The trivia here is a bit strict compared to ssbwiki, IMO. From experience here (by which, I mean screw-ups), I can tell you one thing: if it applies to more than 1 Pokemon, it's not considered trivia, unless one evolves into the other. [[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 20:12, 12 June 2016 (UTC)
::I'm sorry, but I don't really know what to tell you either, Theexploringgamer. It's just a general rule of thumb in our trivia is that a thing should either be unique to a single Pokemon or to a single family. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 01:40, 13 June 2016 (UTC)

== Movesets of CPU-controlled trainer Pokemon ==

Usually, the movesets of Pokemon in trainer encounters are undefined; the game looks at the Pokemon's current level (which is programmed into the trainer encounter data), then "generates" a moveset on the fly corresponding to the last 4 level-up moves that the Pokemon would theoretically learn. Trainer battles with explicitly defined movesets seldomly come by, and seems to be mostly limited to characters relevant to the storyline.

However, there's this Ace Trainer at [[Kiloude City]] which has a custom moveset for his Pokemon. Would it be alright to use {{tl|Party/Single}} for him? [[User:Chenzw|Chenzw]] ([[User talk:Chenzw|talk]]) 15:16, 15 June 2016 (UTC)
:No...I don't think so. He's a one-time battle, and only in one game (pair). He's not really notable and that's what the template is generally meant for. If you'd like, you could leave the moveset in HTML comments by his team perhaps. We have considered a bit the possibility of adding movesets to the Trainer list template, so it may get used. And if not...it'd still be there for other people to find? Actually, at that thought, it might be ''more'' visible on the city's talk page. (Feel free to do either, or both.) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 15:25, 15 June 2016 (UTC)
::I will add it to the talk page, then. Looks like Anton is a one-off exception (at least for Gen VI), probably because he somehow decided to use Weezing and its 4 most recent level-up moves at level 65 are... not that stellar. [[User:Chenzw|Chenzw]] ([[User talk:Chenzw|talk]]) 15:35, 15 June 2016 (UTC)
:::Plenty of generic Ace Trainers/Veterans have custom movesets in my experience starting in Gen III and IV, as well as almost every trainer in the console side-games. Every trainer with Smeargle in X/Y also has a custom moveset for it. The trainers in Terminus Cave/Victory Road had a bunch of them from what I remember. Sky Battles too, I believe. It's still debatable if it's notable, but it's not really all that rare. [[User:VioletPumpkin|VioletPumpkin]] ([[User talk:VioletPumpkin|talk]]) 16:17, 15 June 2016 (UTC)
::::Oops, I completely forgot about all those! I guess it's due to the way the movesets are generated; some Pokemon do not have good level-up movesets for battle at higher levels, too. Perhaps the next pair of games will do something else regarding this. [[User:Chenzw|Chenzw]] ([[User talk:Chenzw|talk]]) 16:23, 15 June 2016 (UTC)

== Pokemaster97's vandal is back. ==

Goes by the name GogglesTheTotodile . I was told this is how I report someone. [[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 16:55, 21 June 2016 (UTC)
:There is not strong reason to suspect that user of being a sock or anything at this point. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 16:58, 21 June 2016 (UTC)
::My apologies; I just assumed based on the message similarity. [[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 17:02, 21 June 2016 (UTC)

== Secret Base Representative Trainer Class ==

The information is necessary because it's incorrect otherwise. I spent a good 2 hours trying to get trainer representation to be correct for my program to only find out it takes the first byte and the information on the wiki was incorrect. Modulo 256 will sometimes give a different last digit than just the plain Trainer ID. {{unsigned|Trigger death}}
:You're absolutely right, that's totally my bad. I tried to think if it made a difference and just didn't think in binary right. Sorry. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 19:44, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
::No worries. :) And good idea with linking modulo for people who don't know what that means. [[User:Trigger death|Trigger death]] ([[User talk:Trigger death|talk]]) 20:55, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

== Why not just delete the dead ref? ==

Referring to [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=BW050&curid=146215&diff=2462137&oldid=2462136 this]. Why not just delete it? Or replace it with [citation needed]? Just curious. [[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 05:13, 24 June 2016 (UTC)
:Because (AFAIK) it ''was'' a valid reference. Removing that makes it unsourced and liable to be removed by someone (and even "citation needed" kind of implies the claim was never backed up), and I don't think that's really appropriate if it was valid before.
:I don't think this is a "good" solution. In point of fact, I don't ''know'' a good solution. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 05:50, 24 June 2016 (UTC)
::I see. I did google the link in hopes for an archive somewhere, but said page was literally the only result. I'm sorry that I can't help. [[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 06:24, 24 June 2016 (UTC)
::Actually, what about an <nowiki>{{outdated}}</nowiki> template? Just explain that the link is dead. [[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 06:26, 24 June 2016 (UTC)
:::That's not what it's really meant for, and it seems like overkill for a piece of trivia. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 14:11, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

== Birth of Mewtwo link ==

I'm really sorry. I just wanted Bulbapedia to have a copy of at least the script. I couldn't find a decent-looking website that had an english text translation, so I took to YouTube. Which was probably my big mistake. [[User:Ericbazinga|Ericbazinga]] ([[User talk:Ericbazinga|talk]]) 20:39, 25 June 2016 (UTC)
:We don't really need (or possibly want) a whole English translation either. We have plot summaries/synopses for a reason. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 23:02, 25 June 2016 (UTC)

== SMD Update ==

Hey Tiddlywinks!
Just an update on SMD. I tried resetting to find the locations of the missions, and it appears there are multiple, but not infinite, number of locations for the missions. However, I can never be certain whether I've found all the locations just for that one Pokémon, and doing this for ALL of the Pokémon is too big of a task for me. Plus, the locations may change throughout the story. For example, when the player moves to Lively Town, you get to access more areas. So (I think) it is impossible to find all locations, so I suggest removing the location column from the [[Connection Orb]] page. On top, my computer is not high tech enough to edit that table without significant lag, so I don't know how I'll edit that table using the data I've gleaned so far.

I was also editing the [[Seed]]s article today, but the buy and sell price for Heal Seed in SMD doesn't appear. I don't think I did anything wrong so I'm thinking the table can't support four buy and sell prices at once.

Thanks! --[[User:Wowy|'''Wowy''']][[User talk:Wowy|'''(토크)''']] 11:18, 2 July 2016 (UTC)
:In that case, the thing we may want to be noting for each Pokemon is how you can ''meet'' them. That is, note where they can be found in the overworld or whose mission to complete to automatically be connected to them (or both if a Pokemon can be met either way). So then we could basicallly just let people find the Pokemon, and they can just view their own Connection Orb to see where they need to go for that Pokemon's mission. (The only other thing I think might be nice would be noting if there's a ''requirement'' before a Pokemon will ask you for a mission--supposing they don't offer immediately after being met, or the day after being met or something. But if it's not that, there could also just be some random element to it. IDK.)
:I'll take look at Seeds later on. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 11:28, 2 July 2016 (UTC)
:Oh, if you tell me what the SMD buy/sell price is, I can add it if I fix it or whatever. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 11:29, 2 July 2016 (UTC)
::Thanks. How you meet them would come under the "Methods" column right (e.g. Chansey gets connected in connection with Rotom after completing Rotom's mission, or Azumarill gets connected when you talk to it at Cafe Connection)? Also, instead of "location", you can have "rewards" as a column. But I'm not sure how important it is because only a small percent of missions give rewards.--[[User:Wowy|'''Wowy''']][[User talk:Wowy|'''(토크)''']] 11:38, 2 July 2016 (UTC)
:::Nah, the last three were all supposed to be about connecting, not meeting. The best example for Method is something like Traveling Pokemon; there's still a location, but not exactly a mission.
:::Maybe we can just have two columns (scrapping the current last three entirely), like "Overworld" and "Acquaintances".
:::I'm a little curious about cases like [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=591BcpStAgc&t=14m Azurill]. I wonder if there are any cases where it might, somehow, be possible to ''meet'' a Pokemon like that in the overworld or by an acquaintance connection if you skip the auto-connect Pokemon for a while. That would make things a little interesting. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 12:22, 2 July 2016 (UTC)
::::Wowy, could you clarify what you mean by multiple locations for the missions? Are you talking about the Connection Orb requests, Traveling Pokemon, overworld, all of them, or some combination, and what exactly varies? Certain requests simply would not work if they weren't in specific dungeons, and there's data (I can elaborate later if needed) that suggests that Traveling Pokemon (and fleeing/fainted) are locked to specific dungeons after a certain point, though the exact floor they appear on may differ. Non-static Overworld Pokemon do get shuffled around each in-game day, though (early-game Serene Village stuff could have some differences, admittedly).
::::Also, I agree that the everything in the Mission column could fit in the Method one, at the very least. I'm pretty sure that every connection/acquaintance is completely set, and it's not possible to recruit any acquaintance Pokemon separately (and if there was, it would be an oversight and could be noted as such unless more interesting effects happened). I think it could even be reasonable to group Acquaintance Pokemon with the 'main' one to make it more obvious that all of those Pokemon are recruited as a group for doing a specific thing, but it could hurt sortability. [[User:VioletPumpkin|VioletPumpkin]] ([[User talk:VioletPumpkin|talk]]) 15:55, 2 July 2016 (UTC)
:::::What do you mean about non-static overworld Pokemon exactly? Are there a bunch of Pokemon that can just have random locations? (I'd kind of figured Pokemon in Cafe Connection might have unique circumstances, but otherwise I would mostly expect most Pokemon to be in just one place... Maybe not story characters, I guess?)
:::::Also, do you mean, for instance, that Azurill isn't even present ''anywhere'' in the overworld? Or Umbreon or Espeon? Or ''anyone'' who's labeled "connection of client" on [[Connection Orb]]? Or what? I'd kind of assumed basically everyone would be somewhere... [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 16:22, 2 July 2016 (UTC)
::::::Indeed, there are many Pokemon who are always found in a set location based on which day of the story it is (or section of the epilogue since you don't have to progress the first parts of that storyline immediately). These include the story-relevant characters, but also many other characters of usually minimal importance. In Serene Village/Lively Town, these ones will usually say something that makes sense to the player/partner, or they're having a conversation with another static villager. In the other towns, there are also Pokemon that are always in the same spot. Though, outside of the story-relevant trip to the Air Continent, I think they more or less say the same things.
::::::Then there are other spots, some scattered around the towns, but also in Cafe Connection (these are always the same locations regardless of the 'day'), that have a random Pokemon from a set list. These include Victini, many starters/evolved starters, Roserade/Gallade, Azumarill (this one might be a special case but I'm not sure), and quite a few more. These random Pokemon include some of the ones who give requests through the Connection Orb, and I believe you can accept the request either through talking to them or through the Connection Orb. If these Pokemon don't have a request/connect with you immediately, they will just tell you a one-liner which never changes. Which Pokemon is in each spot changes every day, for the most part (there were some Pokemon who had uncompleted requests who seemed to stick around in the same spot until I finished it). I'm pretty sure there are a decent amount of non-legendary Pokemon that can never appear in this way. For example, the only letter Unown (memory is fuzzy on ? and ! and they're separate from the others in a few ways) that ever appeared for me in this way are the ones who connect directly with you, and they acquaintance-connect many of the other Unown. Additionally, some of the Rotom formes can be found and talked to in this way before you connect with them (as traveling Pokemon), and won't automatically connect with you in the overworld.
::::::I'm not sure if I ever saw Azurill or Espeon, and I'm pretty sure I never saw Umbreon, but my memory is fuzzy on this. It did take me a while to connect with all the Eeveelutions though, and I only ever recruited them through their requests/as acquaintances/traveling Pokemon. Every overworld Pokemon, static or not, that can be connected just through talking to them almost certainly has some sort of trigger that allows them to be open for connection. For many static Pokemon and the various random starters, that trigger is completing the epilogue's story arc, but many others I'm not so sure about. I hope that was able to clarify some things, it's hard to remember many of the minutiae regarding specific Pokemon. [[User:VioletPumpkin|VioletPumpkin]] ([[User talk:VioletPumpkin|talk]]) 00:24, 3 July 2016 (UTC)
:::::::The Rotom forms, you mean even if you talk to them they don't get registered as "met" in the Connection Orb? (If you're not sure, do you know/can you tell me where they are in the overworld?)
:::::::Half the reason I only had a place for ''connection'' requirements on [[Connection Orb]] was because it's what was there beforehand; the other half of the reason is that there's already a fair amount of columns. But "meet" requirements are arguably just as important if not more. (It's also worth noting that this stuff should also be on individual Pokemon pages under Game locations. For now, ''both'' meet and connect requirements would be good... That way we can always decide we don't want one or the other.) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 00:45, 3 July 2016 (UTC)
::::::::No, they do get met, sorry if that was confusing, and whenever I say connected, I mean they become usable in expeditions, which I think is the main thing that matters. Adding a meet requirements column feels needlessly convoluted, since most Pokemon are 'met' through connections anyway, and the rest are quickly found in towns (maybe a list of the Pokemon in the towns could be helpful). Pokemon that have requests (beyond the first one or two for each group from what I remember) will only give those requests if they're adjacent to a Pokemon you're connected to and the dungeon their request is in is able to be visited. Okay, thinking about it, trying to do this in the current table doesn't feel like it's worth it to me, but if it was possible to make some sort of flowchart designating which missions or conditions you might need to do for each particular Pokemon, it could work out, I suppose. That's still something else for the most part though...
::::::::Actually, maybe I'm just misunderstanding? Perhaps a prerequisite column could be okay. For example, you need to reach a certain rank to unlock the dungeon to connect with Articuno, and we would put x Rank in that column. Doing that unlocks the Moltres dungeon, and for Moltres we'd put Articuno in the pre-requisite column there, and so on? [[User:VioletPumpkin|VioletPumpkin]] ([[User talk:VioletPumpkin|talk]]) 01:51, 3 July 2016 (UTC)
:::::::::If there's anyone you can't '''meet''' by connecting with nearby Pokemon or just by playing through the storyline, who you need to specifically search out and talk to to meet them (who you can ''skip''—even if they're impossible to miss at some point, if you're not absolutely ''required'' to talk to them, you could always skip by them and forget...), then they'd probably need a note—somehow—about where to meet them. ''Maybe'' it wouldn't be worth it for everyone... (I'm still not totally sure, simply because I'm having to rely on others, I don't have the game to experience things for myself.)
:::::::::If the Pokemon with random locations for missions at least always have the same mission, then it might be possible to just say "Random" for the location (if there's ''any'' apparent limit on that, like "on the Air Continent" or Rank X-dungeon or something, it might be worth including that--but not crucial if even that's a lot of work).
:::::::::Ideally, a dungeon's rank requirement should simply be on its page so that (as long as the location is fixed and it's not "Random") people can just click on the link to figure out that sort of prerequisite. And Moltres and Articuno are already noted as having a connection. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 03:03, 3 July 2016 (UTC)
::::::::::Fair enough, I understand where you're coming from at least. The easiest way to test it would probably be to avoid talking to the non-Ghost Rotom forms and seeing if any of them still appear as traveling Pokemon, since they don't have connections with other Pokemon and don't appear as wild Pokemon to my knowledge (encountering a generic wild Pokemon in a dungeon is another way to 'meet' that Pokemon that I forgot about earlier). At least in my limited experience of a single (rather thorough) playthrough, meeting Pokemon only ever seemed to only be completely cosmetic, but if the Rotom forms don't ever show up in dungeons under those circumstances, I agree that it'd be necessary. We can cross that bridge when we get there, though. [[User:VioletPumpkin|VioletPumpkin]] ([[User talk:VioletPumpkin|talk]]) 05:40, 3 July 2016 (UTC)
:Oops, didn't see this. Just to answer VioletPumpkin's first question, I was talking specifically about the locations of missions. For a particular mission, there can be several locations where that mission can be held. (For example, Ralts mission [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYFfUdpH8Mc] vs. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms9HzXa2aH8]). These locations aren't totally random, but finding all possible locations for all missions is too hard. Some missions may have set locations, but I can't be certain of that because I haven't gone far enough to confirm. --[[User:Wowy|'''Wowy''']][[User talk:Wowy|'''(토크)''']] 23:30, 5 July 2016 (UTC)

== Request ==

Hi! I have a request which I hope you will be happy to do. For the [[Connection Orb]] page, will you be happy to split up the table into the different sets (1,2,3... [ignoring any changes that might be made to the table later per discussion above]) so that they each have a separate edit-able section? It's probably not the most sensible thing to do, but the table is way too laggy for me to edit, and probably for other users too, and I'm wanting to edit it as I go along, rather than doing it all in one huge bunch at the end. Unless you can think of another alternative.

Also while I have a staff member's attention, will you be able to change the template for Mystery Dungeon items so that they show up a 4th buy and sell price? It's locked so I can't edit it. Thanks! :) --[[User:Wowy|'''Wowy''']][[User talk:Wowy|'''(토크)''']] 10:57, 7 July 2016 (UTC)
:First and foremost, you can always update Game locations data on individual Pokemon pages. And I currently think the table should stay as it is/focus on ''connection'' (as opposed to ''meet'') requirements, with location noted as "Random" if it's not apparently fixed..
:If I have a "big" concern about splitting the table, it's probably that that'd mean 30+ subsections for the tables, which is a bit extreme. (Not terrible, but not so pretty either.)
:(Just to check, when you say it's too laggy, do you mean you can't even get a preview? Or that it takes several/many seconds to preview? If it's the latter (which is what happens for me), that shouldn't be a terrible impediment; just concentrate on filling in the table/code, and only worry about preview sparingly.)
:I'm not entirely satisfied with just adding a 4th price option... Not with the fact that pretty much every MD game seems to have a different price for some items like the Heal Seed (...will that continue forever?), nor with the fact that all those prices are only disambiguated by cumbersome tooltipped notes. I'll try to shop around for any better ideas for those prices, but I can't really think of much myself, so in the end I may just add the 4th price... [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 14:04, 8 July 2016 (UTC)
::What I mean by lag is that I try writing a few words and it takes a whole minute for those words to appear. But I'm going around that problem now by copying it onto a Word document first, and then pasting it back onto the page. The only flaw I know of doing this is that ' appears as ’ when pasted back, so I'll have to change these manually.
::About the item templates, I agree that having 4 price options makes the table look cluttered, but I haven't thought of any other options so far. --[[User:Wowy|'''Wowy''']][[User talk:Wowy|'''(토크)''']] 07:00, 9 July 2016 (UTC)
:::I see, I hardly would have imagined a problem like that with mostly just text on a page. =P If you want to solve ' changing to ’ in Word, you could consider using a simpler program like just Notepad or Wordpad. (There might also be some AutoCorrect options under Tools or something that controls that change in Word.) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 10:28, 9 July 2016 (UTC)

I'm hardly even sure what now, but I got caught up in other things and quite forgot about the buy/sell stuff here! I've updated the item template now. Heal Seed on [[Seed]] is working fine. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 06:56, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
:Thanks for that! I don't know what will/should happen with future releases though. --[[User:Wowy|'''Wowy''']][[User talk:Wowy|'''(토크)''']] 10:13, 1 August 2016 (UTC)

== The cave on this page is incorrect ==

I am new to this sit and I wanted to help out with a few things. I started to edit things and then you just put them back the way they were. The cave listed in castellia sewers is 100% incorrect. It is not the cave, it is actually the relic passage and the pokemon in the area are listed incorrectly as well in the cave you will find Timburr, Ratatta, Woobat, Onix, and Roggenrola. Somehow the numbers I found for these were incorrect so I was trying to change them to get the correct image to display. If you could help in changing this it would be greatly appreciated. {{unsigned|Digidoggie18}}
:To be clear, are you saying that the "Available Pokemon" table in [[Appendix:Black 2 and White 2 walkthrough/Section 4#Castelia Sewers|this section]] (the first one, with only 3 Pokemon) is incorrect? And are you saying that you are not finding the Pokemon listed in that table while walking in [[a:File:Castelia Sewers dry B2W2.png|this area]]? That, when you walk in that area, you find Pokemon like Roggenrola?
:I'm ''pretty'' sure our information is correct, especially if you look at our main pages for those locations ([[Castelia Sewers]] and [[Relic Passage]]). [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 18:39, 9 July 2016 (UTC)

== Did you seriously just look at my contributions list and revert all my edits on trivia sections? ==

Header says it all. [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 21:36, 10 July 2016 (UTC)
:Great question. If you mean, like, today...no. Anything much earlier...and I really don't remember anything that you might be referring to right now. (At that, in the past month, I've apparently only reverted ONE edit of yours (directly).) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 21:42, 10 July 2016 (UTC)
::Okay, just making sure. [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 00:03, 11 July 2016 (UTC)

== Mainspacing ==

I've got [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/User:Nescientist/Niantic,_Inc. an article] in my userspace that I want to see in the mainspace. So, what's the procedure? The article seems very much notable (especially in these days), I believe it's decent, the page is not protected or anything, and if we'd not link to wikipedia all the time, it would be linked to in popular places. So, move it, then link to it? Just to be safe, and just to be sure to waste your time once again. :D [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 07:49, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
:Thanks for asking! As it happens, mainspacing decisions (and moving and other similar stuff) are generally supposed to be left to staff/the {{bp|Editorial Board}}. I'll bring it to the proper attention. You're right, it is very relevant right now, so hopefully we can sort it out. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 08:32, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
::Thanks! I thought I read something like that before somewhere, but it seems I was also bad at browsing policy pages. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 08:42, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
:::Oh, believe me, I understand how it can be easy to miss. =P [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 08:45, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

==Need a second opinion==
I was able to get more Mirage Spots later on during one day so I am thinking there might be a 12-hour window before players can get more Mirage Spots for that day on Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire. Can you help me confirm this? -[[User:Tyler53841|Tyler53841]] ([[User talk:Tyler53841|talk]]) 13:21, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
:First you probably want to see if you can repeat that a few times in a row. Shouldn't be ''too'' hard. Try it at about 9 AM (or whatever), then 9 PM, then 9 AM again, then 9 PM again. If it seems to work out each time, then that's interesting... [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 15:56, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
::To maybe save you some trouble, connecting to the internet in-game (while StreetPass is enabled?) gives you data that's functionally identical to StreetPass data for the random passerbys that appear automatically (giving you Secret Bases, extra Mirage Spots, etc.) on the PSS. This would occasionally happen in the same day, and it seemed to me like this function was on the same 8 hour StreetPass cooldown that would happen if you were to StreetPass another 3DS/relay. The BuzzNav should update when this happens, just so you know. Apologies if this wasn't what you were talking about. [[User:VioletPumpkin|VioletPumpkin]] ([[User talk:VioletPumpkin|talk]]) 19:37, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
::Actually I did, after it happened the first time, I was able to do it again. If you do it early in the morning, and wait until night you can see those numbers on the BuzzNav. I also did find that in addition to the previous mirage spots, the additional Mirage Spots are also seen. I also saw these reset at the beginning of the next day as well. All that needs to be done is pinpoint how many hours it takes for that little trick to happen before it can be posted in the mainspace. If you can do something like this for yourself it will help you understand this better, so I recommended doing the first part of this in the morning as soon as you can. -[[User:Tyler53841|Tyler53841]] ([[User talk:Tyler53841|talk]]) 02:52, 15 July 2016 (UTC)

== Regarding the links on "List of glitch Pokemon" ==

I made them into links so that they would appear on the "wanted pages" list. Are there already articles about those Pokemon? [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 03:58, 16 July 2016 (UTC)
:It's a simple description. We don't need any page about ""Egg" with Bulbasaur's model". [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 04:09, 16 July 2016 (UTC)
::But I really want to know what it is. [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 15:04, 16 July 2016 (UTC)
:::Glitch Pokemon are not at all my specialty, but I don't think there's ''anything'' notable about the Gen VI "glitch Pokemon" for index 000 or 723. If you want to try to make a userpage about it, please feel free.
:::In the meantime, the main point is, ""Egg" with Bulbasaur's model" is simply NOT an appropriate name for some glitch Pokemon. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 15:48, 16 July 2016 (UTC)
::::Is there a particular reason why the real name isn't on Bublapedia? [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 21:39, 16 July 2016 (UTC)
:::::There is no "real name". [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 21:41, 16 July 2016 (UTC)
::::::Then what is it called when it's forced to exist in the game? [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 22:19, 16 July 2016 (UTC)
:::::::Like I said, I really don't know about glitches. I'm not the right person to ask about this thing. People somewhere like the [http://forums.glitchcity.info/ Glitch City Laboratories forums] probably know more if there's anything to know. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 22:25, 16 July 2016 (UTC)
::::::::Then why did you revert my edit? [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 00:26, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
:::::::::Tell you what. If you make a userpage about the 000-index Pokemon, then we can talk some more. Until then, I'm sorry, but this just isn't going anywhere. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 00:28, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
::::::::::If I make such a userpage and add a stub template, will it appear on the list of stubs? [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 03:59, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
:::::::::::Make it first. Worry about anything else later. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 04:09, 17 July 2016 (UTC)

== Why did you revert my edit to the glitch types page? ==

If I wasn't supposed to edit the page without reason, for what reason did you revert my edit? [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 03:58, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
:For being an inappropriate edit. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 04:09, 17 July 2016 (UTC)

== New Attack: Highhorse Power ==

Hey, there. Today on Serebii.net, they showed a new attack that Mudsdale used. It is called Highhorse Power and it is a ground-type move. [[User:Seabiscuit2020|Seabiscuit2020]] ([[User talk:Seasbiscuit2020|talk]]) 21:03, 19 July 2016 (UTC)
:As far as I can tell, this is almost completely unverifiable at the moment. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 21:39, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

== Starting sentences with conjunctions ==

Not at all a Bulbapedia rule, more so a rule of the English Language, albeit a disputed rule, so don't show me a source that contradicts me, as I know full well you could find loads. The point is, sentences begining with conjunctions have no place on a formal website such as this one. You'd perhaps find it where the sentence represents a voice: a blog post or speech within a novel. That particular point of trivia looks sloppy as it is written currently and I, truly, ponder why it is you thought 'Seen as' didn't make for a coherent formal scentence and how you could possibly think it was better to revert the edit. I'll concede that 'Seen as' may not comply with the general style of Bulbapedia trivia, but niether does 'because'. I think an admin should presnt a greater example, and show a better way of fixing the problem, rather than just reverting the edit like a user who began three days ago.

* {{p|Pikachu}}, {{p|Clefairy}}, {{p|Jigglypuff}}, {{p|Hitmonlee}}, {{p|Hitmonchan}}, {{p|Jynx}}, {{p|Electabuzz}}, and {{p|Magmar}} are all capable of hatcing from {{pkmn|eggs}}, despite this being impossible in any [[main series]] game. These Pokémon's pre-evolved forms were not introduced until [[Generation II]], nor was the [[breeding]] mechanic, while only [[Generation I]] Pokémon are featured in Pokémon GO. This is, likely, the reason for the discrepacy.

This would be a better way to present the trivia, though I'll query the "notability" of the point. I added points of trivia concerning simalur discrepacys regarding Pokémon in Pokémon GO being capable of moves they can not learn in the main series; such as Golem lerning Mud Shot, and Grimer lerning Acid. They were all removed for not being deemed "notable". [[User:05308|Diamond]] [[Lanturn (Pokémon)|Lanturn]] [[User talk:05308|CodeName: 05308]] 08:31, 30 July 2016 (UTC)
:...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conjunction_(grammar)
:I think you're thinking of coordinating conjunctions like "but", as opposed to subordinating conjunctions like "because". They are quite different beasts. (In fact, before your comment here, I wouldn't even have thought to call "because" a conjunction of any sort.) Plenty of the examples the above page gives for subordinating conjunctions are easily used at the start of a sentence, like "As soon as [Ash got home]", "Even if [he lost]", "Until [he won]".
:And "seeing as" (not "seen as") is functionally speaking exactly the same as "because". Anything that can simply substitute for "because" ''must'' function exactly like it (or close enough to make no difference). If it were really that bad, you'd have to restructure the whole sentence, not just substitute something else in for "because".
:But it's perfectly fine as is. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 08:58, 30 July 2016 (UTC)
:: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Because

:: Have you only addressed the first line of my message? I did "restructure the whole scentence". I won't argue this further; my final piece is that to begin a point of trivia with any subordinating conjunction, be it: 'because', 'as soon as' or 'although' is sloppy and does not give the impression that the pages are written with professionalism and seriousness, [[User:05308|Diamond]] [[Lanturn (Pokémon)|Lanturn]] [[User talk:05308|CodeName: 05308]] 09:24, 30 July 2016 (UTC)
:::I don't know what that link is supposed to demonstrate.
:::The part about restructuring the whole sentence, I was referring to your original edit, not the option in your comment here.
:::Also... [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=although&title=Special%3ASearch&fulltext=Search An 'although' search on Wikipedia], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Search&limit=500&offset=0&profile=default&search=because a 'because' search]. If you search either of those pages for ". [word]", you'll find plenty of cases where those words start a sentence. The big daddy of wikis doesn't seem to care that much. In fact... Have a gander at {{wp|Wikipedia:Basic copyediting#Things that do not need to be fixed}}. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 09:37, 30 July 2016 (UTC)

== New move powers in GO ==

So, did you undo my edit in the list primarily because you can't get back the old move powers? If so, does it matter? As I said, it's been official and publicly available, and I believe that's what a wiki should cover. After all, we do, for example, cover glitches that have meanwhile been patched, or websites that are now defunct; and I think we should be. Would Niantic rename Gyms, we would certainly not ''not'' mention they were once called like that, would we? It may not be particularly helpful (on the list), but I didn't add it because I thought it was. I've basically done the asterisks because they're at [[list of moves]] (although I admit there are fewer of those there, at least currently), and the Go list is clearly thought to mirror that somewhat. Would you also disagree to add the changed move powers to the moves' pages, as we do for the core series? [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 15:56, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
:Half because like I said. Half because asterisk notes are not an ideal way of doing it: they make the reader think there's something "important" there, when (again, since you can't get it back) it's not. Personally, I don't even think an extra column would be worth it. (Not ''worthless'', but far too little worth for the bloat/whatnot.) The nearest solution I've come up with is adding something to the main GO page's Version history.
:If you have to download a patch and it's optional, then arguably we do ''need'' to keep covering it, since some people may still have old versions. (The hypothetical about Gyms, in particular, is pretty different than move powers. Everyone knows a "Gym". Everyone does not know every move's exact power. And a defunct website is also fairly different; it's not a ''changed'' website (which is also different from changed ''move stats'').) But this was changed server-side, so you absolutely can't hold onto it or get it back.
:...I would not, personally, really be happy with tt notes on individual moves' pages about old stats. But you also don't especially need to use tt there; you could just write out that these stats got changed. That's quite fine by me. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 16:19, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
::Ok, I only mentioned patches, defunct websites or renaming Gyms (I should've chosen Pokéstops :P) as a great way to illustrate that "you can't get it back" is a weak argument. I'm definitely against an extra column (because that would be half empty?). I'm much more concerned about conformity that about having all info everywhere. And we do have tt's for core series move power changes on the individual pages. So, if you could maybe do whatever is in your mind at, say, {{m|Bug Bite}}, I could do the rest!?
:: So, could we possibly settle on the following then:
::# Adding a subsection at [[List of modified moves]] (and rewording the intro)? Seems better than at the main Go page; we could link to the new subsection from there instead.
::# Removing asterisks from [[list of moves]]?
::# The thing about Bug Bite I just mentioned? (We may also opt to not do that if we do 1.)
::Thank you! [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 16:49, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
:::For Bug Bite, you'd just add something like, "Prior to an update to Niantic's servers on July 30, Bug Bite had a power of [X]."
:::List of moves is very different from anything related to this change in GO. The asterisks on that page are about things in different Generations...things people playing a game in that generation will be dealing with and may need to know. Those aren't getting removed.
:::I'm also not all for putting this GO data on the list of modified moves either. Again, those are things you ''can'' go back to, depending on which generation you play. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 17:05, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
::::So, asterisk then basically means "toggle if you're playing old game, you need different info", and that's why you removed them at GO? Got it. And I'm sorry, could you just do it over at Bug Bite please (it was 6)? [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 17:32, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
:::::Thank you, Sir. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 18:23, 31 July 2016 (UTC)

== Camp Pokémon ==

Hey, so I noticed that in the side game data, there was nothing on Camp Pokémon. On my user page, I tried to make a template and I have the information on all of the Pokémon on it for there. I can make all of the things myself and add them there, I was just wanting some feedback? [[User:IHHeroes|IHHeroes]] ([[User talk:IHHeroes|talk]]) 04:36, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
:Try making a user page putting together this information somehow. There are (arguably) some games that really just aren't substantial enough to warrant much if any mention among species' game data, and from looking at the [[Camp Pokémon]] page, I can't really tell what there might be that ''should'' be on the species pages. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 22:42, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

== The route to improve the damage article ==

You'd be my best guess on a user to assist in this math- and programming-intensive issue (no offense, {{u|BulbaBot}}); and I hope you're capable of TeX for the remainder of this post. So, just to say it out load, the obvious way for the rounding problem is to remove the current formula, replace it by the correct one, and update the article accordingly. This would involve updating the image formulas over at the Archives, so we should update the images and the articles kinda simultaneously.

So, Tiddlywinks, I want to ask you, will you be my TeX-to-Archives-image converter, from this day on to the end of... tomorrow? So please answer with "Yes, I will."

I would then create a userpage with TeX-code where images should be, and alert you once I'm done, so you could wreck havoc at the Archives and update the damage article accordingly. I guess this should be the proper way to do it.

I would personally be going for \cdot over \times, and for including \lfloor and \rfloor in the formulas as well (and not ''only'' mentioning them in prose), but I would like your opinion on that. Additionally, I would be interested in whether they're actually actively rounding down, or they're just doing some kind of float-to-int-conversion. The code's in the Smogon reference that's on the page, but I cannot reliably make sense of it (and ''possibly'' you could!?) Again, if you don't speak TeX (there's no user template for it, unfortunately :P), I'm sure we could find another method. Thanks. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 10:54, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
:I'm not really sure how everyone else makes images for formulas, but I've been using [http://www.codecogs.com/eqnedit.php this]. Perhaps you can use that too. If you'd still like me to plug in those formulas, though, I can do it. (If you do it yourself, I'll suggest that the variables for "Level" and "(Base)Power" be written out as such, whereas the Attack/Defense variables can perhaps be left as "A"/"D", which will make it a little harder for people to assume it means the physical stats and a little easier for us to define those in text as ''dependent'' on the move category.)
:I will note also, the images on the Damage page will take a good while to update on the page once they've been updated on the Archives. (About a month, from past experience.) ...But it may be possible to write text that pretty much works for either formula.
:Rounding/integers: the Smogon article says right out that "''÷ always denotes the in-game unsigned divmod function, i.e. the unrounded/truncated integer division''". Going by that, the formula on the Dragonflycave page that has <code>floor(2 * L / 5 + 2)</code> should probably technically be <code>(2 * floor(L / 5) + 2)</code>, which could make a difference if you had something like level=13 (floor(2*2.6) = 5, whereas 2*floor(2.6) = 4). By contrast, Smogon says applying any modifier actually ends with a straight ''rounding'' (decimals <=0.5 are rounded down, otherwise it's rounded up). It may also be worth noting that, according to Smogon/for Gen V at least, there are a few modifiers that come before the random damage factor. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 15:28, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
::Thanks for spotting the division thing. Looking at both sources (Smogon basically has the same formula than Dragonfly, it's just us who've re-written it), I guess it should technically be <code>floor((2*L)/5) + 2</code> and not what you said, which shouldn't make a difference (5 in your example either way). The tool is basically a TeX-image converter, but it'd be cool if you could still account for the Archives part (not being confirmed on Archives and such), would you? I don't know yet whether it will be possible to write text that works either way (I guess not if we're renaming). I thought the images update on bp if I edit the article? If not, maybe we should (if it's text that only works the new way) upload new images instead of updating old ones?
::Anyway, got opinions regarding last message's last paragraph? Also, there's a tradeoff between having <code>Damage=...*Modifier [next line] where Modifier=a*b*...</code> vs. having <code>Damage=...*a*b*...</code> (image size vs. inventing/defining "Modifier"); got an opinion on that as well? [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 19:33, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
:::Oh, yeah, I managed to miss how Smogon's page said (2*level), not 2*level. I might've just gotten confused by looking at both the pages. Yeah, in that case, Dragonflycave's format is practically speaking the same thing.
:::Got it, if you can't do the uploading, sure. (Trying to put a bit of time in at the Archives might be a good idea for future needs too. =P )
:::I think there are cases where an image might update right away, but I wouldn't bet on it. And uploading new images just because the old ones are cached isn't really appropriate.
:::The floors can be included, and the times operator should probably be something more visible than \cdot (\times just because that's apparently our standard in most other formulas). Since there's already a modifier image in the article currently, and putting them together would definitely make the formula quite long, I think it's best to just keep them separate. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 19:57, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
::::Thanks for the fast reply. Makes sense. Just wanna add that I guess ''most'' modifiers are applied before the random damage factor. (Let's probably discuss this further once I got the userpage ready.) Opinion: Shouldn't Smogon's modifiers for A and D be located at [[Statistic#In-battle modification]] rather than at [[damage]]? [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 20:04, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
:::::Smogon appears to say that the random factor is the 4th of 8 modifiers, the [http://www.smogon.com/bw/articles/bw_complete_damage_formula#final last of which] has many and overlapping possibile components itself. (If you were counting the base power, attack, and defense modifications, those aren't part of the same modifier component, so to speak.)
:::::Smogon's base power, attack stat, and defense stat sections (sections 3-5) can probably be offloaded to other pages, yeah, with appropriate nods/links (like [[power]] and [[Statistic#In-battle modification]]). [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 20:36, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
::::::Started my article [[User:Nescientist/Damage|here]], with lots of info/considerations/todos hidden. Apart from the missing example, that's the basic outline that should do it. Note that I didn't do floor (or hid it, cause the formula looks way to confusing imho), but instead just explained it in prose. The old descriptions will not make it, cause there's new factors, and "A" and "D" have been renamed. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 09:28, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
:::::::I have now finished what I had in mind, including the formulas that would need to be uploaded. From the HTML-hidden notes, do you happen to know an easy way to do 1 (I guess you can tell what I had in mind)? For some of the other notes, I feel I kinda lack the authority to decide on my own. If you want to edit the article or discuss something, feel free. Feel free to also remove the HTML-hidden notes if you want to move it or something (I have them here). Thank you very much. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 12:43, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
::::::::(Without having read the whole page super thoroughly) I can't actually tell what the "hidden details" your "1" is referring to are. I'll take some time trying to consider all sorts of stuff otherwise. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 18:22, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
:::::::::Oh, I mean the expandable tables/texts on the page. Whatever you see looks ugly. I wasn't (easily) able to make them look how they're supposed to. Thanks for your time! [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 19:29, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
::::::::::Oh, I see. I keep Javascript disabled as a rule, so I had no idea those were even supposed to be hidden/collapsed. =P [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 19:31, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
:::::::::::As this is related, we should also be splitting off the "Attack modifiers" (how Smogon calls 'em) from our {{stat|In-battle modification}} (the rest would be "boost level"). {{m|Foul Play}} apparently uses the target's (base) Attack stat and "boost levels", but applies "Attack modifiers" as normal (and I cannot currently word it). The same holds true for Defense modifiers, and I guess for everything else that does also not count towards the maximum/minimum of 6 stages. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 20:45, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
::::::::::::Edit: Managed to reword Foul Play, but the mentioned section could still need a split. As in, later. :P [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 21:20, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
{{indent}}
1) I don't see any real need to split the things that change stat stages from the things the modify stats in any other way. The latter is already differentiated by being labeled '''Other''' in the table.

2) A tip in regards to Foul Play: don't use a phrase like "stat modifiers" too broadly. It especially should not be used to attempt to refer to stat stages (or "boost levels"), which already have a well-recognized name—trying to refer to that with the words "stat modifiers" is only confusing. It shouldn't even be used to refer to all "modifiers", including stat stages, simply because it's ill-defined. Something like "stat stage and all other modifiers" would be a much clearer way to identify all modifiers. (Really, "modifiers" is only clear when directly contrasted with stat stages.)

[[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 22:09, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
:The need is the max/min limit. And '''Other''' is not (currently) used exclusively for that. (But that's all rather minor.) I was using "stat modifiers" specifically because that's what our stat page uses (like for virtually everything), and not "stat stages" (as a term) or "boost levels". And while the current wording is much better/clearer than mine, it still might sound like it references the user for Reflect, Multiscale, or even Defense, as well. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 22:23, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
::And pretty much everything outside of the Statistic page will refer very specifically to stat stages when speaking of them, and not jump through hoops trying to use the word "modifier".
::Like you say, the user case is basically the ''normal'' case (except that trying to use that word in the description is confusing); that should be pretty well understandable. If it helps, you could think of it like the damage formula ''acts'' (so to speak) from the user/target's ''perspective''. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 22:35, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
:::Yes, I know, I checked, I read the code, and I'm quite sure I understood it. Nothing changes except for the Attack stat and the Attack stat stages being taken from the target instead of the user. Yet that's not what the current descriptions says. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 22:42, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
::::I wasn't talking about the code or that sort of thing. I was only talking about the description.
::::If your problem is still something to do with Reflect, Multiscale, or Defense: the effect description currently says it "references the user for all other modifiers to '''''Attack'''''" (and did originally, but I got confused by your edit summary when I redid it). Only Attack. Not Reflect, Multiscale, or any Defense modifiers in general. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 01:35, 13 August 2016 (UTC)
:::::I'm sorry, I just thought you were unsure whether I actually understand what the move does. As you know, I was recently very much into everything that has to do with damage calculation, including code.
:::::Therefore, the current description is still not correct, as burn and many Abilities never modify "Attack". Please understand that this is not some kind of personal vendetta or anything. I do not want my specific wording to be on the description, not even my specific terms. We both want the description to be correct and clear, but if we cannot manage to have it correct ''and'' avoid saying "nothing else is different"/"everything else acts as normal", then we should not avoid saying that and have it incorrect, but we should have it correct and not avoid saying that. That's a very bad tradeoff, it's just not worth it then. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 08:38, 13 August 2016 (UTC)
::::::Burn: now ''that'' bugs me, actually. I can't tell from the Gen V code what's actually going on, but Gen I and II do seem to account for a burn on the ''Attack'', not the damage. (Also, burn is always described as lowering Attack... If it's ''technically'' cutting physical damage, that's an annoying distinction to hide.)
::::::Abilities: again, as I wrote it, the description is only worried about all other modifiers '''to Attack'''. Abilities that don't modify Attack are completely outside of that consideration. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 15:36, 13 August 2016 (UTC)
:::::::You're right about the burn in Gen I and II. I guess you can technically call that wording correct (and super-careful) then. So I'd be ok with it, if "type" was removed.
:::::::You should hopefully be able to tell what's going on after you've thoroughly read and considered my damage page :P (FYI, I've also analyzed/used [https://github.com/Zarel/honko-damagecalc] and [https://github.com/Zarel/Pokemon-Showdown], my wording is in accordance to the calculation, and my damage values are in accordance to [https://pokemonshowdown.com/damagecalc/ their calculator's]) [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 19:56, 13 August 2016 (UTC)
::::::::If "you should be able to tell [...]" means you still have a problem with Abilities, then I don't see it, no. You'll just have to do a better job explaining if you think you still need to convince me. Maybe give specific examples.
::::::::Trusting derived programs is fraught with hazards. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 20:05, 13 August 2016 (UTC)
:::::::::It was not supposed to mean it. And I didn't trust those programs entirely, I just used them to doublecheck. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 20:08, 13 August 2016 (UTC)
::::::::::Actually, is there any reason not use their code as "source"? They've clearly analyzed the game's code, and they are sooo super accurate for anything I have checked so far: If there was any contradiction, it was always others who had it wrong. It's far more accurate than we (currently) are or "regular" Smogon is, and also slightly more accurate than the Smogon article (that misses Whirlpool etc.). (Dragonfly is super, but not as concrete/detailed.)
::::::::::Interestingly, from checking their code, those Minimize-effect moves do not seem to "always hit" if the foe had used Minimize, but to just take their (base) [[accuracy]] no matter what; doesn't make a difference for Body Slam, but certainly for Dragon Rush. So, I'll be testing, and if they're correct there as well, I'd like to just treat it as the most accurate "source" we have, and go start "correct" everything that's wrong/imprecise. Ok?
::::::::::Also, do you have a place you'll be doing that in-battle modification split? If so, I'd be willing to start adding how everything affects/modifies stats to a table/tables (i.e. everything bar stat stages). And also power at [[power]]. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 21:18, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
:::::::::::You say it's clear they've analyzed the game, but I know of no particular reason it is. Nor do I have any idea how they've analyzed the games. We prefer to avoid assumptions. I'm not comfortable with just assuming those calculators are ''truly'' accurate, especially regarding some new mechanic or change. You can find some support, but don't just take their word (so to speak) for it—especially if there's no way (or hardly any) to be sure of the difference (like, for example, a burn halving physical damage instead of Attack).
:::::::::::I'm trying to balance a handful of things at the moment. I'll hope to make some more progress surrounding this damage stuff this weekend, here and there (though not necessarily "finish" (maybe, but not at all sure)). [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 21:44, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
::::::::::::Oh, I'm not talking of the calculator. I'm talking of their source code that's available on GitHub. There are comments in there that clearly show they basically (try to) port the game code, like [https://github.com/Zarel/Pokemon-Showdown/blob/master/data/moves.js here]. I'm almost sure they can just read and understand the original.
::::::::::::Yes, thanks. I guess neither of us thought that this will end up in some "project" as big as this. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 21:52, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
:::::::::::::Yes, by the calculator I meant more or less their source. Looking at the page you linked, I don't see anything that necessarily suggests they've looked at the games' source. All I can tell is they've apparently implemented things to function like the games. Is there a particular comment that indicated to you that they read the games' code? [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 22:10, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
::::::::::::::Yes, [https://github.com/Zarel/honko-damagecalc/blob/aa86908265db6d452606b3b69fca71323051e367/js/damage.js this] comes to my mind:
::::::::::::::"''// GameFreak rounds DOWN on .5''", and the entire "pokeround" rounding function they have no reason to include (in places where they include them) otherwise.
::::::::::::::They have also rewritten everything for Gen VI (by intact backwards-compatability), whereas if I had no access to the code, I would just have copy-pasted Gen V. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 22:21, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
{{indent}}I'll punt a bit and see what other staff think. A good part of this is just trust, especially as communicated by someone in a position to know. I've heard from trustworthy people that UPC is good. This calculator seems ''likely'' okay, but I'd still really like that actual trust factor (and/or clear testament or something from the developers). [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 22:39, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
:Ok then. Just to clarify, it's not just the move calculator, but also their online battle simulator (else we had no accuracy etc.) But I'd like to point out that my trust in it in large part comes from checking what they have (in-game, UPC, the Smogon article, ...; they're right in contradictions; Minimize accuracy). And that it's virtually impossible to add details such as the burn thing if you trust noone (which you don't, but anyway). [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 22:56, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
::Excuse me, Tiddlywinks, but do you happen to have any news regarding any of the topics we discussed? I'd really like to get things going before Sun-rise, even for reasons other than being selfish or only ''personally'' disliking current states. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 11:29, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
:::I've kind of been trying to do a few things recently before S/M comes out/PGL shuts down, and this isn't a '''huge''' priority, so I've been letting it slide. I haven't forgotten, I just haven't made time to finish it up yet either. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 03:53, 7 October 2016 (UTC)
::::I see. Thank you.
::::Just as some kind of explanation, or maybe excuse: It's just that I've been considering to check/correct move effects (''possibly'' after doing something with [[User:Nescientist/Effect section guideline|this]], but not sure) ''before'' I have no clue whether it's still up to date. (And this is not primarily about minor things.) As it's a rather time-consuming thing to do or plan, it would be open up opportunities ''at least for me'' if you could possibly move your judgment on Showdown a bit further upstream your priority list (at least above the damage article stuff).
::::I've seen other users at talk pages basically saying "''I just tested <effect> in <game>, it's not what the page says. Can someone confirm/correct?''", where I could just answer "''Yes, I already noticed that, I'm sure you're absolutely right, and that it is <effect2> instead, but yeah, the article doesn't reflect this.''" For me ''personally'', it's kinda sad to see others basically relying on info that's outdated from my point of view, and it's also weird to give answers that basically go "I'm sooo clever, trust me, don't trust Bulbapedia." (you may or may not believe me here :P) [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 09:19, 9 October 2016 (UTC)
:::::Showdown? I may need to apologize. When I tried to ask about it, no one apparently knew much about it and I kind of forgot/didn't think about pursuing it myself. Part of me thought you would contact whoever's working on Showdown, too. I thought you were a bit more familiar with all of that, so you would know who to go to or where to look a little faster than I would if I had to look into it. So I haven't been thinking about that myself, actually. Unless you really do know well who to go to, I guess I can try to reach out to whoevers sometime today.
:::::And are you saying that you can't answer "Yes, I already noticed that [etc]" because you would know that from Showdown? We don't restrict people's "sources" on talk pages. If you want to say, "Yup, Showdown suggests such-and-such is the real mechanic(s)", you're entirely free to make that response. We're only strict with what makes it into mainspace pages. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 10:14, 9 October 2016 (UTC)
::::::Well, you said you'd check it or talk to whoever, so I didn't pursue asking others when I thought you did. (And ''if'' you're really eager to get some "testament" from developers, as it seemed you kinda were, I guess you (or staff) should try to get that anyway, not me!? I wouldn't see that as a must, personally.)
::::::I did answer it like that on talk pages. But I've restrained from changing anything on mainspace pages myself. (If you wanna, I was even kinda ahead whoever asked those questions.) [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 10:28, 9 October 2016 (UTC)
:::::::The verdict is a negative for using Showdown as a source. We'd prefer more direct access to the disassembled instructions/workings as opposed to a necessarily derivative simulator. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 02:33, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
::::::::I see. (Though I'd say Bulbapedia is ''at least'' just as "necessarily derivative" for the most relevant part.) So, what would be the appropriate procedure for me instead (like when there are contradictions etc.)? [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 16:14, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
:::::::::I don't really know how to answer that. Case by case?
:::::::::Try giving me an example of a contradiction. And then give me your best guess of what you would/could do. Maybe that'll help me understand well enough to give a better answer. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 16:22, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
{{indent}}(I don't know if this came out wrong, but I don't want to source Showdown as in reference them in the article. I'm not affliated in any way, I don't even play there.) So, I'm not sure, but I think "case by case" is kinda what I was asking for!? Let me sketch a few different cases that might show:

1. Well, probably have a look at {{m|Whirlwind}} in the last few days (minus the nonsense I did), as well as its talk. What I would have done ''in that case'' is to change it without testing.

2. Another example, starting with A: {{m|Astonish}}, according to Showdown, doubled in base power after Minimize in Gen III only (and was not the only move to do so). Nobody complained yet, and probably nobody on here will for quite some time, but Showdown data shows different, which I noticed. Seeing that UPC also says this, I would have changed that without testing.

3. {{m|Heat Crash}} up next: In Gen VI only, it doubles after Minimize. I've tested this in-game some time ago, and Showdown was correct; but in a case like that, I would also like to add it without testing. I have nothing that contradicts this, and it is highly likely nobody added it to Bulbapedia ''yet''. I would, of course, be super careful with Gen VI info in particular.

I have yet to go through all effects systematically, but I believe there also could be things like before someone complained at Whirlwind, that Bulbapedia ''explicitly'' contradicts Showdown (like before [[Special:Diff/2519038|this]]). I would have used common sense there, going with what's likely, what's unlikely, and being ''very'' careful on removing Bulbapedia info. Just assuming for a moment that nobody already noticed the contradiction in-game and that UPC (and Azure Heights, and if you have more you consider reliable, then these as well) had no data on Whirlwind, and Bulbapedia ''explicitly'' contradicts Showdown, I would go to Whirlwind's talk page (and/or Spading) and not change anything yet.

So, can I do that? [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 17:16, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
:1: I'm a little wary when you mention "change it without testing". If it was just after Hydroxybutyric's oriingal comment on [[Talk:Whirlwind (move)]], that would seem a bit hasty.
:2: UPC is a fine source.
:3: If you've tested it, that's fine. Do not presume Showdown is correct and "add it without testing".
:The long and short of it is, don't trust anything to Showdown solely. Consider it like Serebii or something: find an alternate source/proof. And don't just guess at what's "likely" or "unlikely". [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 17:36, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
::That seems like something I can work with (although it seems a bit restrictive imho, and from all I can tell, I believe I'm generally even slightly more... precautious than you). Depending on how much "Showdown-exclusive" info it will be, I guess I will go to individual talk pages or make up a "public" user page with accumulated contradictions (unless you have a better idea). Thanks! [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 18:26, 15 October 2016 (UTC)

== About the page splits mentioned on your userpage... ==

Are you ever going to finish them? It's been over two weeks since you said, "It's been over two weeks." [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 01:08, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
:Yes. Some day. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 01:09, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

== Accuracy, accuracy, evasion, power ==

(Has nothing to do strictly with the damage article, but) I guess there are clear parallels for calculating "effective" normal/standard stats (i.e. Atk/Def/SpAtk/SpDef/Init), accuracy, evasion, and power:
# Start with the (base) Atk[/...] stat seen in-game / the [[accuracy|move accuracy]] seen in-game / a value of "1"/100[%] / the move's [[power]] seen in-game (or as calculated by special routines)
# Modify with [multiply by] the Atk[/...] stat stages / the {{stat|accuracy}} stat stages / the {{stat|evasion}} stat stages / [nothing for power]
# [modify SpDef with unique Sandstorm modifier here]
# Modify with [multiply by] effects of items, Abilities (iff they affect this here)
(And technically speaking, I'd therefore prefer to say Gravity and anything other than accuracy stat stages modify [[accuracy|(move) accuracy]] rather than the user's {{stat|accuracy}} stat, and have items/Abilities listed in that article rather than the stat page.) Just prominently saying/reminding, in case you intent to reformulate/work on any of that (or any moves/Abilities affected) in a moderately larger scale. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 10:52, 14 August 2016 (UTC)
:Edit: Effects of [[Badges]] come after 2 in early Gens, and 4 would also include {{m|Tailwind}}. Also, evasion is not calculated all on its own, but the evasion stat stages are simply subtracted from those of accuracy (in step 2) [http://www.dragonflycave.com/mechanics/battle#accuracy] (so technically, there is basically no "evasion stat", but only evasion stat stages). [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 16:53, 14 August 2016 (UTC)
::If nothing else, [[Statistic#Accuracy]] has the actual accuracy formula. I think that makes it a far better place to link to than [[Accuracy]]. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 17:24, 14 August 2016 (UTC)
:::Actually, I guess you're right. (And this further justifies my proposed move of [[accuracy]].) Still, a split (or better just a mention somewhere, coz the table's so nice) between "affects stat stages" and "doesn't" would be nice. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 17:30, 14 August 2016 (UTC)
::::The In-battle modification table is nice (pretty), but I've been thinking it's a little cramped/haphazard/something, too. I intend to split it up a bit in the process of vetting its contents. It won't be the same kind of pretty, but I think it'll be a bit better in its own way too. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 17:39, 14 August 2016 (UTC)
:::::After thinking about it, I guess our formula is also wrong then. It at least contradicts what I just said Dragonflycave says. Have the user have +2 accuracy and the target +1 evasion (Gen V+), our formula gives <code>5/4</code>, but theirs gives <code>4/3</code>. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 17:55, 14 August 2016 (UTC)
::::::I'll have to look at that later, then. I have to focus on squaring things away for Damage first. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 18:04, 14 August 2016 (UTC)
:::::::I'm quite sure our formula is off after Gen II (and that Dragonfly and the Showdown guys are right). I'll probably try to check in-game some time soon (and try to get a miss with a 75% move at -1 vs. a -2 opponent).
:::::::When you edit articles about accuracy (nice formulation btw), you may want to also (my favorite) limit {{cat|Moves that cannot miss}} to damaging (physical/special) moves (and remove status moves currently in it). Or to moves than can affect an opponent (and add weather-inducing moves, entry hazards, the Terrain moves, {{m|Sketch}}, {{m|Telekinesis}}, {{m|Miracle Eye}}, {{m|Odor Sleuth}}, {{m|Psych Up}}, {{m|Role Play}}, {{m|Mud Sport}}, {{m|Water Sport}}, {{m|Aromatherapy}}, {{m|Heal Bell}}, {{m|Block}}, {{m|Howl}}, {{m|Gravity}}, {{m|Tailwind}}, {{m|Guard Split}}, {{m|Power Split}}, {{m|Wonder Room}}, {{m|Magic Room}}, {{m|Heal Pulse}}, {{m|Reflect Type}}, {{m|Bestow}}, {{m|Rototiller}}, {{m|Sticky Web}}, {{m|Ion Deluge}}, {{m|Flower Shield}}, {{m|Electrify}}, {{m|Fairy Lock}}, {{m|Play Nice}}, {{m|Confide}}). Or add virtually all status moves... You may also consider whether to add {{m|Thunder}}, {{m|Hurricane}}, {{m|Blizzard}} (or open a discussion or whatever). [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 21:10, 16 August 2016 (UTC)
::::::::Edit: better not add Thunder etc., or we'd also have to add {{cat|moves that power up against a Minimized opponent}}. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 22:03, 16 August 2016 (UTC)
:::::::::I tested, and our formula appears to indeed be incorrect after Gen II, and Dragonfly and Showdown seem to be correct on this. Anyway, I noted that we also note that somehow, but in a very different section ([[Statistic#Stage multipliers]]). [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 11:11, 20 August 2016 (UTC)
::::::::::I know that staff may sometimes need dedicated/special ways to discuss things, and that sometimes no communication is just most efficient. And while I adore your efforts and most of your design decisions (and do not oppose most others either), I would like to kindly ask you to consider being more public/transparent/something in regards to at least the (in the broader sense) damage-related stuff you're doing. It's a wiki, we may be able to coordinate things, I may be able to ''assist''.
::::::::::The categories in particular needed some refinement, sure. But if it's just you changing some things, I (and ''possibly'' others as well) have no chance to know what the deal is. Recently, for example, I could only guess that you may have ''missed'' to add {{m|Ice Ball}} to {{cat|Moves that power up}}, but ''intended'' not to include {{m|Earthquake}} (and others); I'm just not sure, I don't know your reasoning (and future plans that might influence that)—you might even have just missed them as well. Also, I would, personally, definitely like to at least be able to give some input on your choices as they're made, instead of spamming your (or any) talk page after they're already implemented (especially when I could very well be aware of certain issues that might've fallen through the cracks initially). (Also, as kind of an argument to this, I believe I'm not super pedantic, and I'm very well able to just accept imprecise wording/categorization if it helps overall simplicity/readability/wiki-bility, or carefully made decisions I personally oppose.) Thank you. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 11:31, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
:::::::::::The extent to which I've coordinated with other staff is pretty much "Is this a bad idea?" I'm trying to put things together so (as much as possible) they can be easily and accurately referenced regarding damage calculation. I did indeed miss Ice Ball. But Earthquake's modifier does not act on "power".
:::::::::::There are a number of reasons I may not be real good at the kind/level of communication you apparently want, but right now, the only thing still on my mind is incorporating "Modifiers for the base power" from Smogon's page into [[power]]. And after that I hope to be able to think about the Damage page more directly. I hope that helps somehow. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 12:15, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
::::::::::::Well, thank you for understanding. We're both having the same goals. Of course, I'd be pretty willing to answer "Bad idea?" questions if I was asked, or to draft my ideas at a talk or user page. If you'd prefer it, though, I'll continue to share my thoughts at your talk page, and let you continue do your thing, so to speak.
::::::::::::As I said, I wasn't sure on Earthquake, I just (correctly) assumed the most reasonably thing. Thanks for clearing that up anyway.
::::::::::::According to Showdown, if you want that, the base power is also increased for {{m|Knock Off}} (Gen VI only), and {{m|Revenge}} (since its intro in Gen III, but missing completely at the Smogon article, unlike its variation {{m|Avalanche}}). As an idea, it might be worth introducing "Moves that power down" (or similar) as a counterpart for "Moves that power up" (for {{m|Solar Beam}} etc.). Alternatively, we could just include both kinds of moves directly in "Move that have variable power", which is basically how I have split things at the [[power]] article some weeks ago (I'd ''slightly'' prefer to not do that alternative, though). [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 13:37, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
:::::::::::::Actually, the way we do it now, "Moves that power down" would only include Solar Beam, so it might be a bad idea. However, moving Eruption etc. there would be an option (and the most precise one ''technically''); that would also have the neat effect that "Moves that have variable power" was mdash-only (if we say Stored Power "powers up", which I guess it does technically), but also the drawback that we should then probably also label Reversal (and others?) as "Moves that power up" (from zero). I'm unsure on that one, so maybe we should only have "Moves that have variable power" and no "that power up/down", or just have everything the way it is now, except for Knock Off and Revenge. (Sorry for talking too much...) [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 00:27, 26 August 2016 (UTC)
::::::::::::::Eruption is variable power. There's no trigger condition. (I deviated from a certain theoretical ideal to include the likes of Rollout, Triple Kick, and Fury Cutter, but Eruption's power is still on a continuous sliding scale; that's plainly different from the mechanics of any of the "moves that power up".)
::::::::::::::In some part, I'm not actually happy with being this strict—with quibbling over "technically such-and-such modifies damage and whatsit modifies power" (possibly Attack too), a difference that should ''mostly'' be negligible, as well as pretty unimportant (possibly even confusing) to most users. Perhaps that could simply be addressed with another category, though, something that, somehow, implies it covers any modifiers to power or damage (or etc.), and "moves that power up" could be a subcategory to it and Earthquake and stuff could go in the parent or new subcategories. ...But for now I'm just going to continue on as I have been. What I'm trying to do is task enough for now. A case for more or different can be made eventually, if someone wishes. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 00:59, 26 August 2016 (UTC)
{{indent}}
Well, that depends somehow; you basically meant to define "moves that power up/down" as "has no trigger for variable power", whereas my idea would more be like "may deviate from what the label says". I guess you mean unimportant/negligable ''for categorization''; then yeah, sure. The supercategory idea sounds cool, too. Meanwhile, I'll just slow down interrupting you. :) [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 01:35, 26 August 2016 (UTC)

== About moving "Magnagate" article to "Magnagate Dungeon", as well as maybe moving or deleting all the named Magnagate Dungeon articles ==

Since I've been analysing and researching the internal data of Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Gates to Infinity, I have discovered that there is no set list of Magnagate Dungeon names, they are determined on two separate lists. The first list in which determines the first name, in this case "Alluring". Then the next comes from the second list of names in which determines the second name of the dungeon, in this case "Crevasse". So the name of the dungeon becomes "Alluring Crevasse". And there's more to it too, the first list of names determines the enemy Pokémon and items that appear, while the second list of names determines the music and the dungeon layout and textures.

So I'm just wondering about the [[Magnagate]] article, should it be moved to [[Magnagate Dungeon]]? The article itself seems like it hasn't had any activity for quite a while and needs improvement. Also, what should be done about all the named Magnagate Dungeons that are listed, such as [[Forgotten Rock Formation]]? Should they also be moved into an article in which lists all the Magnagate Dungeons? Or should they be deleted altogether? Lemme know what you think.—[[User:Platinum Lucario|Platinum Lucario]] ([[User talk:Platinum Lucario|talk]]) 16:03, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
:Can you start out by telling me how many possibilities there are for the first and last parts of a name?
:And I'm not sure if I'm missing something from your explanation...but it seems none of the other dungeons with "Forgotten" (like [[Forgotten Maze]]) match the Forgotten Rock Formation's encounter list.
:My first inclination (with reservations, given the "Forgotten" stuff above) is just to describe how each piece of the name affects the dungeon on the Magnagate page, and the resulting combinations don't need dungeon pages, but that definitely needs to discussed with other staff first (possibly even up to the EB).
:And "Magnagate" ''seems'' alright to me... Not sure what's better about "Magnagate Dungeon", but I've never played (or been super interested in, really) any of the MD games. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 16:20, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
::Yeah, I was thinking that too. And hm... seems like whenever a Magnagate Dungeon is generated in the game's data, it might also be selecting a Pokémon encounter group, as of random. But I'll need to look into it more, and I'll have to see what determines the items that appear in a dungeon too.
::And there's also another reason why I thought "Magnagate Dungeon" would be more fitting for the article, 'cause I also noticed that there's no article about the "Magnagate" in the actual story of the game, in which uses Entercards, however there's one close to that in which does explain what would fit into a Magnagate article too, which is the [[Entercard]] article. From playing and researching the game, there is the Magnagate Dungeons created by an Entercard, in the story of the game. And I understand you haven't played the game or been interested in it. I just like to research the data in games and find out how it functions when certain bytes are changed. As well as discovering unused content in the game too (such as the Exit tile, which functions in the same way as the stairs).—[[User:Platinum Lucario|Platinum Lucario]] ([[User talk:Platinum Lucario|talk]]) 16:54, 18 August 2016 (UTC)

== Am I going to get blocked for reverting that edit? ==

I'm sure you're aware that I'm under a trivia ban. Unfortunately, one of the edits I did [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Elesa&curid=115746&diff=2491763&oldid=2491758 turned out to be trivia]. I didn't even look at what I undid (until after); I just saw him edit warring and undid his edits blindly. Sorry. :{ [[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 19:20, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
:It's fine, don't worry. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 20:04, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
::Phew, thanks. ^_^ I'll be more careful in the future (unless it's something obvious or offensive, in which case...) [[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 22:50, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

== Pokémon GO - Move - Bug Bite ==

Page in question → [[Bug Bite (move)#Pokémon GO]]

I noticed that you stated the "Energy Delta" was increased from 6 to 7 on July 30th.

It is my understanding that it was always 7.

<pre>{
"ID": 201,
"Name": "Bug Bite",
"Move Type": "Quick",
"Animation ID": 4,
"Type": "Bug",
"Power": 6,
"Accuracy Chance": 1,
"Stamina Loss Scalar": 0.01,
"Trainer Level Min": 1,
"Trainer Level Max": 100,
"Duration (ms)": 450,
"Damage Window Start (ms)": 250,
"Damage Window End (ms)": 450,
"Energy Delta": 7
} </pre>

— Thanks, [[User:Rmkane|Rmkane]] ([[User talk:Rmkane|talk]]) 01:35, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
:That page says power, not energy. The power was 6 (and is now 5). [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 01:39, 25 August 2016 (UTC)

Oh, good catch, sorry. Thanks for the quick response. I am staring at a huge JSON file and m eyes are going cross-eyed...

— Thanks, [[User:Rmkane|Rmkane]] ([[User talk:Rmkane|talk]]) 01:42, 25 August 2016 (UTC)

== Re: Undo revision by Poliwhirl (talk)Umm...why? ==

Thanks for changing it back. I was giving the people who think they're 14 the benefit of the doubt, but it really shouldn't be on there until there's some kind of concrete source. I'd probably just remove the age section of their infobox altogether since the only source that claims that says they were "initially" envisioned as being 16, but that doesn't mean they were in the final game. Still better than nothing though.--[[User:Poliwhirl|Poliwhirl]] ([[User talk:Poliwhirl|talk]]) 13:43, 2 September 2016 (UTC)
:I understand the impulse to remove the age parameter. On the other hand, I think, at the very least, there should probably be some acceptable compromise/middle ground. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 14:01, 2 September 2016 (UTC)
::Yeah, I added the "14-16" as an attempt to compromise because it seems to be commonly believed that they're 14. I still can't find the supposed Famitsu article that states this, though. It's probably better to leave it off until it's found. --[[User:Poliwhirl|Poliwhirl]] ([[User talk:Poliwhirl|talk]]) 14:07, 2 September 2016 (UTC)
::I'm going to remove the ages for just Bianca and Cheren. It's assumed they're the same age as Hilbert and Hilda but it's not 100% confirmed, and I think it's better to remove them until a source is found that states their official ages, if they even have any. I hope you don't mind. --[[User:Poliwhirl|Poliwhirl]] ([[User talk:Poliwhirl|talk]]) 19:52, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

== Targeting ==

I've thought about it some time ago, and I'd like to share my thoughts/considerations.

So, there are actually two different concepts/connotations of "target" (hence also my subtle push for a target/range article [[User:Nescientist/Damage|over here]]):
# what you can select (with stylus etc.); from what I can think of, nothing depends on this (other than what you have to select);
# who the move affects/hits; virtually everything depends on this, such as who can {{m|Protect}}, whom it [[contact]]s, who can {{m|Mirror Move}} it.
While these are one and the same for almost anything, they're different/conflicting for {{m|Outrage}} and variations and also for {{m|Uproar}} (and ''possibly'' also for {{m|Struggle}} in some way). So, as our template (currently) only supports one option, and although admittedly it ''visually'' looks like we should be using 1. over 2., I'd actually like to convince you to undo your changes. I guess that, from the technical/programming side, those actually ''are'' a special kind of foe-affecting rather than self-affecting moves (see e.g. [http://projectpokemon.org/rawdb/black2/movedata.php this] and [[Move data structure in Generation III|this]], or how UPC calls the range/target "random opposing Pokémon"). The template/page notably ''says'' nothing about a "target", but just uses "affects" (which I initially imagined might have been an intentionally carefully designed wording to account for these moves); it does, however, simultaneously mention {{m|Protect}} etc., which I guess kind of demands its target param to be "adjacentfoe" (or to not be "self"), if only for clarity reasons. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 18:12, 3 September 2016 (UTC)
:I'm not undoing {{m|Petal Dance}}/etc's "targeting".
:Both the "select your target" kind of targeting and the "you may hit these" kind of targeting are pretty fundamental to moves, but the former is a good deal more prominent (more visible, more interactive) in the games. The effect section can always explain the ''effect''—who's actually hit/how.
:...And if you wanted to go the "you may hit these" route, then we'd have to consider changing the targeting of other moves like {{m|Bide}} and {{m|Counter}}. And we really just don't need those kinds of arguments; we'll stick with the thing the game very clearly defines.
:(At best, we could perhaps add a parameter that mostly looks like "self" except that instead of saying "Affects the user", it says "Affects a random opponent". But hell, if Counter works fine saying "Affects the user", I'm not sure there's really that much of a difference. Hell, UPC technically says [http://upcarchive.playker.info/0/upokecenter/dex/index.html%3Flang=en&move=68.html Counter] and [http://upcarchive.playker.info/0/upokecenter/dex/index.html%3Flang=en&move=14.html Swords Dance] have different targeting. But in the end...I don't know if it's worth it for us to mark those differences that well. At any rate, it could probably become a much larger conversation if we wanted to treat Petal Dance/etc any differently.) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 18:50, 3 September 2016 (UTC)
::Ok. What kinds of arguments do we not need? [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 20:19, 3 September 2016 (UTC)
:::About what the "right" targeting is. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 21:47, 3 September 2016 (UTC)

==Problem==
The same problem you dealt with on Skitty's page, I had to take care of on Sunkern's page. -[[User:Tyler53841|Tyler53841]] ([[User talk:Tyler53841|talk]]) 01:44, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
:Yup, I noticed, don't worry. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 01:47, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
::Well, I was going to fix that edit anyway before you got to it first, but I think think this user needs a temporary block from what I've seen on their talk page. -[[User:Tyler53841|Tyler53841]] ([[User talk:Tyler53841|talk]]) 01:50, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
:::We see it as well. We'll deal as needs dealing in due time. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 01:51, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
::::Up to his old tricks again, I would say now would be a good time, as this user will not stop. -[[User:Tyler53841|Tyler53841]] ([[User talk:Tyler53841|talk]]) 02:13, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

== Grateful ==

Excuse me Tiddlywinks. Thanks for helping out the situation.--[[User:CoolPokeGuy|CoolPokéGuy]] ([[User talk:CoolPokeGuy|Talk]]) 16:45, 9 September 2016 (UTC)
:You're welcome. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 17:18, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

== yveltal and the black death dispute ==

I hate to bother you with this, I admit I only came to you first because your username was easy to remember. ^^;

So here's the problem. Pumpkinking0192 removed mention of the black death from Yveltal's Origin section. Upon questioning his motives, he first claimed just because it's black and related to death has nothing to do with the black death, which I told him that was not remotely the reason for the origin mentioning it. Then he said it can't be related because Yveltal is not a poison type and now he refuses to discuss it due to the "wall of text" I used to address his reasons. and told me to go to a staff member. Sorry I don't mean to sound like a kid running to the teacher to tattle here, but this is beyond ridiculous. [[User:Yamitora1|Yamitora1]] ([[User talk:Yamitora1|talk]]) 07:31, 12 September 2016 (UTC)
:If I may clarify, Tiddlywinks, please read my talk page posts with an open mind instead of accepting Yamitora's exaggerated characterization. In no way did I say any of my suggestions were "must-be"s or "can't be"s, just that their presence or absence made it ''unlikely'' that the plague was an intended influence on Yveltal. If you keep that in mind, my posts speak for themselves, and this is the last post I have any interest in making in this silly dispute. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 16:07, 12 September 2016 (UTC)
::The Black Death is not something I would say has or should be connected to "poison".
::I tend to lean permissive on origins (more or less precisely because of the likelihood for this sort of detailed and subjective (on both sides) arguing). So, when all's said and done, my own conclusion here comes down to just..."Eh, why not?" But I'll see if other staff have any thoughts and try to get back to you. (If I don't get back after a couple days, assume I've forgotten perhaps. And/or if you're not satisfied with my lack of conviction, feel free to consult {{bp|Staff|someone else}}.) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 00:31, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
:::I didn't exaggerate anything, read the edit log for Yveltal and Pumpkinking0192's talk page and you'll see I listed the key points of the situation.

:::'''edit log for Yveltal 00:32 September 10, 2016''' ''Origin: Being the color black and themed around death does not automatically make it related to the plague outbreak nicknamed "the Black Death." It has no other connection to the plague that I'm aware of, so this really doesn't belong.)'' [[User:Yamitora1|Yamitora1]] ([[User talk:Yamitora1|talk]]) 18:48, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
::::The ascendant opinion among staff seems to be that there's little connecting Yveltal to the plague. I will defer to that, and I hope you can make peace with this. Thanks. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 22:08, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
Thank you for your time, yes I can make peace with the decision. [[User:Yamitora1|Yamitora1]] ([[User talk:Yamitora1|talk]]) 05:20, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

== BW103 ==

Why did you add that trivia point back? It is pure speculation and is not sourced someone jumping out of a plane doesn't automatically mean James Bond and could just be a coincidence. The copyrighted material is James Bond he is a copyrighted character and from what I've seen before no comparisons to copyrighted materials are allowed.[[User:Ratchet and Clank 1995|Ratchet and Clank 1995]] ([[User talk:Ratchet and Clank 1995|talk]]) 07:40, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
:Once again, you have horribly misinterpreted the trivia. No where is it saying the scene is based off James Bond. It's saying that Daniel Craig was '''dressed as''' James Bond as he and the Queen parachuted during the opening ceremony of the 2012 Olympic games. And no, it does not need rewording, the trivia is clear as clear can get.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 09:27, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
::That still doesn't explain that it is unsourced, speculation and most likely a coincidence.[[User:Ratchet and Clank 1995|Ratchet and Clank 1995]] ([[User talk:Ratchet and Clank 1995|talk]]) 16:37, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
:::I don't even know what you mean by "unsourced". It's not like you need a "source" to draw a comparison. I think "speculation" isn't really a right word to describe this either. The similarities could, however, be mostly coincidence, or both paralleling an underlying trope instead of the Olympics specifically. On the other hand, the timing between the Olympics and the episode is close enough that it's not at all unreasonable to consider that that may have been the inspiration. I'll think about it. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 17:35, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
::::Apparently the league conferences often have parallels to the Olympics, like a torch in the first conference. In that light, I think the trivia on [[BW103]] is perfectly reasonable and acceptable. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 22:08, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

== Lysandre ==

Thanks for removing that trivia. I haven't seen the episode (wouldn't know where to look, actually) but the original writer's use of "explicitly" misled me to think this was something unprecedented for the anime. Thanks for setting the record straight. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 02:07, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

== Marill family and fairy type ==
C'mon, it's not that speculative; in fact, it is one of the best explanations, I've ever come across, to their fairy type and it does make sense. If you find a better explanation I'd gladly accept it, but just removing it seems really biased. {{unsigned|ExLight}}
:Can you explain to me (in full/explicit detail, not just with a link to Wikipedia) why you think it is based on the tooth fairy? [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 22:35, 17 September 2016 (UTC)
::Sure, but first we must consider that Marill's family wasn't originally supposed to be tooth fairies, it received the type mainly to spread the new type, so it doesn't really have the tooth story to support it.

::Since the mouse image is strongly related to the tooth fairy, I do believe this was the reason Marill was chosen to get it. In fact, the original tooth fairy might've been a mouse ({{wp|The Little Mouse}}, http://bit.ly/2cfgQoF), now, this one seems to be popular (I'm not really sure how much) in France. (The fact it is a French fairy tale MIGHT be important, since the Kalos Region had french influence on other Pokémon like Aromatisse and Goodra).
:: The Mouse-Tooth Fairy relationship still relevant on some hispanic countries ({{wp|Ratoncito Pérez}}). So even nowadays, representations of the fairy aren't only the 'tinkerbell' one, some of the most frequent among the uncommon are rodents, and sometimes rabbits (http://bit.ly/2cY9veZ).
:: So, that's it. I do believe this is more than enough to give a Pokémon the fairy type, some other need way less to be categorized as such, e.g., Morelull because of its foxfire (a.k.a. fairy fire) and Swirlix being a cotton candy (a.k.a. fairy floss). [[User:ExLight|ExLight]] ([[User talk:ExLight|talk]]) 02:25, 18 September 2016 (UTC)
:::''"first we must consider that Marill's family wasn't originally supposed to be tooth fairies"''
:::I'm tempted to stop right there. That's practically the ''definition'' of speculative.
:::But long story short, you've just got ''so'' little. You mention {{p|Swirlix}}. Swirlix at least ''looks'' '''exactly''' like cotton candy. (You also mention {{p|Morelull}}, but its typing is not mentioned on its page at all.) {{p|Marill}}? Marill hardly looks like a mouse, and doesn't look like a tooth fairy, and isn't connected to teeth in any particular way. If anyone's biased here, it's you, wanting an explanation badly enough to be more certain about your theory than is really reasonable. I'll admit, you've got some interesting coincidences and you ''could'' be right... But that's about ''all'' you have: coincidences; it could easily be something else entirely, something that makes much plainer sense (if only we knew about it). You also argue they basically internally retconned Marill to justify it being Fairy; but that's ''really'' not a good assumption either (as we often say: "don't assume").
:::There's simply not enough there. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 03:00, 18 September 2016 (UTC)
:::: "Coincidences", huh. *sigh*
:::: Better than no explanation. Anyways, thanks for hearing me out. If you say so I won't disagree. [[User:ExLight|ExLight]] ([[User talk:ExLight|talk]]) 03:28, 18 September 2016 (UTC)

== Pokédex 3D ==

What's wrong with the images that I am putting into [[Pokédex 3D]] that you are removing? I am not following what you are wanting that section to contain. --[[User:Wildgoosespeeder|Wildgoosespeeder]] ([[User talk:Wildgoosespeeder|talk]]) 04:08, 18 September 2016 (UTC)
:Long story short: what's the point of multiple images that basically show the same thing? [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 04:12, 18 September 2016 (UTC)
::I made sure to take care of duplicates (or images that don't add much to the article, which I found two and are tagged for deletion on the archives). The PNGs I linked all have something different to them. --[[User:Wildgoosespeeder|Wildgoosespeeder]] ([[User talk:Wildgoosespeeder|talk]]) 04:15, 18 September 2016 (UTC)
:::Many of them just have different Pokemon. That's hardly any difference. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 04:19, 18 September 2016 (UTC)
::::What do other people think? Could you ask around? --[[User:Wildgoosespeeder|Wildgoosespeeder]] ([[User talk:Wildgoosespeeder|talk]]) 05:11, 18 September 2016 (UTC)
:::::What Tiddlywinks said. One image per "feature" is enough. --[[User:Carmenstar97|Carmen★]] ''[[User talk:Carmenstar97|(Talk |]] [[Special:Contributions/Carmenstar97|contribs)]]'' 14:37, 18 September 2016 (UTC)
::::::OK, I reached a compromise. <nowiki>{{</nowiki>[[a:Template:Unused|unused]]<nowiki>}}</nowiki> was applied to applicable images ([[a:Special:ListFiles/Wildgoosespeeder|my images]]). --[[User:Wildgoosespeeder|Wildgoosespeeder]] ([[User talk:Wildgoosespeeder|talk]]) 20:34, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

== National number ==

Hello! I'm from Poképédia, and I saw that you added the national numbers for Rowley, Litten, Popplio and Pikipek. As for now, I've only seen Rowlet's number, in a Bank Pokémon screenshot. For the other ones, is it just deduction from the regional numbers or is there a real source? [[User:Matt.|Matt.]]([[User talk:Matt.|talk]], [[:fr:Discussion utilisateur:Matt.|discuter]]) 09:53, 25 September 2016 (UTC)
:The others are inferred from Rowlet's number and the regional order (and the perfect space for expected starter evolutions), yes. In every game since RSE, the regional 'dex order has exactly mapped to the National 'Dex order, with the sole exception of the tail end of the Gen IV Pokemon. (For the record/ease of reference: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nc03tXikfJs starter regional numbers], [https://www.twitch.tv/nintendo/v/72391082?t=1h3m45s Pikipek regional/Melemele number].) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 14:28, 25 September 2016 (UTC)

::So if I understand well, it's just deduction based on the Regional numbers, but nothing really official. Alright, thank you! [[User:Matt.|Matt.]]([[User talk:Matt.|talk]], [[:fr:Discussion utilisateur:Matt.|discuter]]) 14:34, 25 September 2016 (UTC)

== Fainting source ==

It was on the official [http://www.pokemon-sunmoon.com/en-us/pokemon-refresh/ Pokémon.com page] about Pokémon Refresh.
<code> Sometimes they’ll avoid attacks from opposing Pokémon—and even hold out when they’re on the verge of fainting.</code> [[User:MannedTooth| MannedTooth ]] ([[User_Talk:MannedTooth|Talk]]) 21:55, 25 September 2016 (UTC)
:It says affectionate, not friendly or happy. Given that Refresh looks like {{pkmn|Amie}} 2.0, we'd probably best hold off on assuming Refresh's mechanics until the parallels (or divergences) are made more explicit. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 22:06, 25 September 2016 (UTC)

== Orbs and seeds ==

Hi! I wanted to ask you something before I added some large-ish edits about MD since I've approached you on some before. I was thinking of adding an availability table to some MD pages like [[Wonder Orb]]s and [[Seed]]s about which games they can be found in. The item lists currently on those pages don't easily differentiate which games they are from unless you open the details of each one and see whether they can be found in those games. For example, one Orb might have only been available in Gen 3 and 4 games, while another is available in Gen 4, 5 and 6 games, and another only in Gen 5. I was thinking of adding a table like the one on [[Status ailments in Mystery Dungeon|this page]], though it doesn't solve the messy cost issue. What are your thoughts on this? --[[User:Wowy|'''Wowy''']][[User talk:Wowy|'''(토크)''']] 11:13, 26 September 2016 (UTC)
:It's not a great solution, but if you can turn Javascript off (NoScript makes this very easy for me in Firefox), all the tables will display without you having to click each one.
:We also have a ''small'' hope of splitting all items out to individual pages sometime in the future. (It may never happen, or may never happen until Gen 8, or who knows what. These sorts of things aren't exactly discussed every day, and for now it's had a bit of support but not much in the way of momentum.) It occurs to me that if that happens, a table like you're thinking of would be more appropriate on the Orb/Seed pages.
:Since the MD games are pretty different from the core games in this respect, though (where non-Key items almost always carry forward), if you still want to, I'd say I guess it's alright? I don't think it'll be a perfect solution still, but it is a unique problem for MD games. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 17:21, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

== monopoly moves descriptions ==

Although I get what you're doing by removing instructions, I can't quite seize why you removed half of [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Bonemerang_(move)&curid=3764&diff=2512553&oldid=2512544 this one]. [[User:MannedTooth| MannedTooth ]] ([[User_Talk:MannedTooth|Talk]]) 07:11, 2 October 2016 (UTC)
:I guess that part doesn't have parentheses like the others. But it looks pretty much like instructions. Are you sure you didn't miss any parentheses on that? (Likewise, do you know if you missed any part of Thunderbolt?) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 07:16, 2 October 2016 (UTC)
::Nope, I've verified again and it's all okay. The thing about Bonemerang is that what's left on it is just... not pointless but like, it doesn't really mean or describes anything. [[User:MannedTooth| MannedTooth ]] ([[User_Talk:MannedTooth|Talk]]) 07:29, 2 October 2016 (UTC)
:::Following most of the rest's example then, I ''suppose'' Bonemerang's whole thing is the "description" then... [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 07:43, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

== Whirlwind and Roar ==

Sorry, I screwed up there. What I wanted to make clearer initially was that it would succeed if the opponent has switched etc., which I'm pretty sure of, and neither revisions nor upc contradict. I somehow forgot that this was the Gen II section somewhere in the middle, then made everything wrong; so sorry for that! [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 17:59, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

== Ash-Greninja ==

Should Greninja count as a Pokémon that appeared in the anime before its game debut? Because the Ash-Greninja form was first introduced in the XY series prior to the Sun and Moon games. [[User:Seabiscuit2020|Seabiscuit2020]] ([[User talk:Seabiscuit2020|talk]]) 19:43, 4 October 2016 (UTC)
:It basically seems the same as {{p|Zygarde}}. If Zygarde counts, {{p|Greninja}} probably does too. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 20:54, 4 October 2016 (UTC)
::That's all I needed to know, thanks. But the problem is that the Greninja page is locked and I can't add that category to it. [[User:Seabiscuit2020|Seabiscuit2020]] ([[User talk:Seabiscuit2020|talk]]) 21:01, 4 October 2016 (UTC)

== sound based moves page messed up ==

I can't fix some kind of weird error that is under snore. http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Category:Sound_moves [[User:Yamitora1|Yamitora1]] ([[User talk:Yamitora1|talk]]) 18:54, 9 October 2016 (UTC)
:You mean {{u|Spriteit}}'s page? There's nothing really to be done about that without removing the infobox or deleting the page entirely, I think. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 21:20, 9 October 2016 (UTC)

== Direct damage ==

I saw you used that term, and I was wondering if {{cat|Moves that deal direct damage|that}} should contain all of {{DL|User:Nescientist/Damage|Moves that have a special damage calculation|those}}? I'm asking primarily cause I also saw [[Special:Diff/2516659|this]], and if a mention of exceptions actually is warranted, it'd be easier to link to the category then. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 17:24, 11 October 2016 (UTC)
:Well, do you have a preference for {{a|Fur Coat}} etc.? [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 16:14, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
::I forgot about that part. Thanks. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 16:22, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
:::In lack of an actual answer, just to make sure: you realized that this affects more than just Fur Coat, right? And you prefer to note exceptions? In which case, I can go ahead and change all effects affected!? [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 17:16, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
::::I don't have a clue what you're talking about, but how about: go forth and prosper. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 17:22, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
:::::Well, thanks for your trust I guess, but let me probably explain beforehand:
:::::For Fur Coat, I see two possibilities, namely saying "''Fur Coat halves damage from physical moves, Psyshock, Psystrike, and Secret Sword.''" (and stopping there), or adding "''(..). It does not affect moves that deal direct damage.''" (and noting ''all'' exceptions by linking to the category). However, if we do the second thing here, we should probably similarly note exceptions at a lot of other articles, including rather obvious ones like {{a|Friend Guard}} or {{a|Thick Fat}}, but also weird things like {{cat|damage-reducing Berries}}, [[gem]]s, probably others.
:::::I can't say I have a clear preference of what it should be ideally, that's why I was asking whether you have one. Right now, I would probably just delete that "''Does not affect...''" exception sentence entirely for simplicity, and note the exceptions on their respective pages and that's it. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 18:26, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
::::::Thick Fat modifies attack stats, not damage. Most of the resist Berries activate on ''supereffective'' damage, which simply cannot apply to any of the direct damage moves. For {{b|Chilan}}, however, it would be fine to note the direct damage exception. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 18:40, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
:::::::You're of course right on Thick Fat. (And I should have known!) Gems also affect power. I was a bit too fast with the list; I've slowed down to compile a new one: Chilan, Reflect/Light Screen, Friend Guard, Life Orb, Multiscale/Shadow Shield, Metronome (the item), Burn. The way we have it also Fairy Aura (e.g. Pixilated Super Fang), Electric Terrain (via Electrify), Misty Terrain (Dragon Rage), and said Fur Coat (Showdown disagrees it affects damage for all of those; it's exceptionally hard to test, but would not even require us to make an exception for direct damage).
:::::::So, does "it would be fine to note" actually mean you ''prefer'' to note direct damage exceptions there over not noting them? (I'm about to apologize to ask for your opinion...!?) If so, I could add this within the next 24 hours; it's a matter of whether we ''want'' that. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 19:47, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
::::::::If it's confirmed, a note is certainly warranted. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 08:50, 17 October 2016 (UTC)
:::::::::Alright. I won't necessarily be testing/doublechecking all, but I've got my Raticate right here. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 14:34, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

== Table formatting ==

I have these two tables that should look better.
{| class="sortable roundy" style="margin:auto; background:#CCF; border:3px solid #BEBED1"
|-
! {{color2|000|National Pokédex|#}}
! class="unsortable" |
! Pokémon
! class="roundytop" style="background-color:#{{hp color}}; font-size:80%" | HP
! class="roundytop" style="background-color:#{{attack color}}; font-size:80%" | Attack
! class="roundytop" style="background-color:#{{defense color}}; font-size:80%" | Defense
! class="roundytop" style="background-color:#{{special attack color}}; font-size:80%" | Sp. Attack
! class="roundytop" style="background-color:#{{special defense color}}; font-size:80%" | Sp. Defense
! class="roundytop" style="background-color:#{{speed color}}; font-size:80%" | Speed
! style="font-size:80%" | Total EVs
{{lop/ev|015|Beedrill|0|2|0|0|1|0}}
|}
How do I make the colors line up correctly and remove the "0" from the last column?
{| class="sortable roundy" style="margin:auto; background:#CCF; border:3px solid #BEBED1"
|-
! {{color2|000|National Pokédex|#}}
! class="unsortable" |
! Pokémon
! style="font-size:80%" | Exp.
{{lop/ev|017|Pidgeotto|122}}
|}
How do I remove the extra column that's right of the last column? {{unsigned|Sumwun}}
:First off, FYI, the four pages you've recently created in your Sandbox aren't really good mainspace material. It's all just trivia, which doesn't add up to a good page.
:Otherwise... The problem you're having comes from the fact that you're using a template, and that template is meant to do things a very ''specific'' way; it's not just going to let you pick and choose the pieces you want somehow. Instead of using that template, you could solve it by making another template in your userspace that only uses the parts you want, if you're able. Or, for the second table, you could just do the rows like on [[User:Sumwun/Sandbox/List of Pokémon with unique catch rates]] instead of trying to use that template. If you still feel like filling them out even if they won't be mainspaced, you could also just ignore the extra parts from the template (like just add an extra, empty column to the header of your first table so the other rows align). [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 05:34, 17 October 2016 (UTC)
::Thanks. As for the pages not being good mainspace material, how meaningless does something have to be in order not to be mainspace material? [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 18:39, 17 October 2016 (UTC)
:::Well, like I said, as a rule of thumb, if it's basically just a trivia list, then it's probably not great for the mainspace. On the other end of the spectrum, things like game features are prime mainspace material. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 18:45, 17 October 2016 (UTC)
::::This seems kind of on topic, so I'm not sure if I should start a new discussion. Anyway, it's about this table.
{| class="sortable roundy" style="margin:auto; background:#CCF; border:3px solid #BEBED1"
|-
! {{color2|000|National Pokédex|#}}
! class="unsortable" |
! Pokémon
! class="roundytop" style="background-color:#{{hp color}}; font-size:80%" | HP
! class="roundytop" style="background-color:#{{attack color}}; font-size:80%" | Attack
! class="roundytop" style="background-color:#{{defense color}}; font-size:80%" | Defense
! class="roundytop" style="background-color:#{{special attack color}}; font-size:80%" | Sp. Attack
! class="roundytop" style="background-color:#{{special defense color}}; font-size:80%" | Sp. Defense
! class="roundytop" style="background-color:#{{speed color}}; font-size:80%" | Speed
! style="font-size:80%" | Total EVs
|-
|-
! 015
|{{MSP|015|Beedrill}}
| {{p|Beedrill}}
| 0
| 2
| 0
| 0
| 1
| 0
| 3
|}
::::How do I make all rows except the top row white? [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 16:44, 25 October 2016 (UTC)
:::::The "|-" starts a new row. You can also use that same line to set the behavior of the new row. Like
|- style="background: #FFF"
:::::This will make the whole row have a white background. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 20:34, 25 October 2016 (UTC)
{| class="sortable roundy" style="margin:auto; background:#CCF; border:3px solid #BEBED1"
|-
! {{color2|000|National Pokédex|#}}
! class="unsortable" |
! Pokémon
! class="roundytop" style="background-color:#{{hp color}}; font-size:80%" | HP
! class="roundytop" style="background-color:#{{attack color}}; font-size:80%" | Attack
! class="roundytop" style="background-color:#{{defense color}}; font-size:80%" | Defense
! class="roundytop" style="background-color:#{{special attack color}}; font-size:80%" | Sp. Attack
! class="roundytop" style="background-color:#{{special defense color}}; font-size:80%" | Sp. Defense
! class="roundytop" style="background-color:#{{speed color}}; font-size:80%" | Speed
! style="font-size:80%" | Total EVs
|- style="background: #FFF"
! 015
|{{MSP|015|Beedrill}}
| {{p|Beedrill}}
| 0
| 2
| 0
| 0
| 1
| 0
| 3
|}
::::::Thanks for your help. [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 02:38, 26 October 2016 (UTC)

== Hiya ==

So I'm curious about a couple of decision-making processes by the admins of this wiki, but since the admin who made the decision has yet to respond to my questions and you have been at least somewhat civil to me every time I've asked you such a question, I figured I could come to you to get an explanation.

First of all, I asked on [[Talk:Red (Origins)]] if I could split Caterpie and Metapod into separate boxes (for reasons that are listed there but I don't feel like repeating here). After a long time of no answer, I went ahead and did it, only for it to be reverted. When I asked on the talk page why it was reverted, ForceFire, who reverted the edit, responded that I can't change something when no one has commented on it, but that they did not know whether or not I was right. Since there's still been no one who has pointed out a problem in my logic, can I make this change now, or do I still need to wait for someone to join in the conversation?

Secondly, I added a parallel trivia point to Gallade and Froslass similar to parallel trivia points found on pages such as [[Phanpy]] or [[Gothita]], only for ForceFire to remove it because it's "opinion". I could understand the trivia point being unnecessary, but I'm not sure why it's considered opinion when several other examples of nearly identical trivia points are not.

I hope this doesn't come off as rude or snarky since I really am just curious and would like to understand better so that I don't make the same mistakes (though I'm aware that I tend to phrase things in ways that come across as impolite and have yet to improve). Thanks! [[User:Nutter Butter|Nutter Butter]] ([[User talk:Nutter Butter|talk]]) 21:22, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
:Continuity of characters is pretty standard. Caterpie is a character. By growing, it can become Metapod. It's somewhat more weird to think they introduced an entirely different Metapod and didn't point it out at all than it is to think that Caterpie just evolved. If they show both at the same time, or if they explicitly say that they're different Pokemon, then fine; but otherwise, the reasonable assumption is that they're the same.
:The sort of trivia on Phanpy's page hinges (''strongly'') on the fact that it and its "counterpart" are exclusive to different games in a pair. This is not true of either Gallade or Ralts; they're don't even "look" the same, with Ralts' family having three stages and Snorunt's having only two. You're welcome to draw the parallel and believe there's an intentional connection there, but that's your own "opinion". There's too little in the way of really good connecting points (some of the connections you try to point out just come off as reaching, especially after the first couple or so). It's mostly just coincidental. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 01:58, 19 October 2016 (UTC)
::I see... Thank you! [[User:Nutter Butter|Nutter Butter]] ([[User talk:Nutter Butter|talk]]) 02:11, 19 October 2016 (UTC)

== Regarding age of Black/White protagonists ==

Are you sure it should stay the way it is now? I feel like there there shouldn't be something definitively stated like that unless there's a source. There's no official source I can find that identifies them in that age range, even though the designers did most likely intend for them to be around that age, but if we're going by that we might as well add an estimated age for every protagonist, which I don't think is a good idea. Most of them don't have an official age. I just think it's probably be better to be consistent and not list an age for the protagonist unless it's definitively stated somewhere (unless you want to consider what the scenario writer said as applying to the final game and change it to 16). P.S. I apologize in advance if I did something wrong by making a new section here rather than putting this in the previous one I made. --[[User:Poliwhirl|Poliwhirl]] ([[User talk:Poliwhirl|talk]]) 12:31, 21 October 2016 (UTC)
:It seems one way or another I missed when the "14-" was added again, that much was not appropriate actually. The Twitter source in the trivia is at least *a* source, so we'll keep those there for now. I'll consult with other staff, though, and double-check if we should remove it after all and just leave it in the trivia. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 12:46, 21 October 2016 (UTC)
::Thank you. I assumed you/the other admins were okay with it since it was left alone for a month and you reverted my edit back to it. Sorry about that. --[[User:Poliwhirl|Poliwhirl]] ([[User talk:Poliwhirl|talk]]) 12:53, 21 October 2016 (UTC)
:::I actually forgot I had touched any of that over a month ago. =P And removing the age entirely is a big step, which I didn't adequately understand until your message here. (And then I looked into the histories again and...the rest is history? Pun intended.) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 13:02, 21 October 2016 (UTC)

== Re:Thunder ==

I only added it in the meantime just for an early start. Not because of the demo version. I was just trying to help.--[[User:CoolPokeGuy|CoolPokéGuy]] ([[User talk:CoolPokeGuy|Talk]]) 12:15, 22 October 2016 (UTC)

== So I may have found an interesting piece of material. ==

I was looking on the internet not too long ago, and I came across a [http://psro.web.fc2.com/psro/appearance/appearance/higana.jpg Nintendo Dream article] (apparently the same as the one where Mega Flygon was revealed to not be a thing) that interviewed Game Freak about Zinnia. According to what some people have translated, the "Aster is a Draconid" plot wasn't made up by Pokespe and is actually canon to the games, but was not put in as a way to keep players guessing. I was just wondering if it wouldn't be impossible to add it to either character's articles, but I just wanted a second opinion. [[User:Ataro|Ataro]] ([[User talk:Ataro|talk]]) 14:10, 23 October 2016 (UTC)
:''According to the head scenario writer, Zinnia herself has no special powers, she's just a normal person. One day, Zinnia inherits her position from Aster, a person with special powers, but she never had the powers of a lorekeeper herself. Zinnia does what she can as a "powerless (/helpless) person", and that's one of the core themes of the Delta Episode.''
:Man, they absolutely, completely buried that whole angle, then. I like that there's actually some authoritative word on Aster in the games.
:Can you link the original page that image was on? I'd really like if we can reference the exact issue that's from. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 14:51, 23 October 2016 (UTC)
::[http://psro.web.fc2.com/psro/appearance/poken-appearance-special.html Here you go.] It's a new entry, so it's listed at the top as well as the very bottom. [[User:Ataro|Ataro]] ([[User talk:Ataro|talk]]) 15:24, 23 October 2016 (UTC)
:::I've added the information into [[Zinnia]] and [[Aster]] after finding a reference with more complete scans. If you see any way it needs improvement, please feel free. ^^ [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 16:25, 23 October 2016 (UTC)

== Water Shuriken ==

Now that the Ash-Greninja sprite is up, do you think you can add it to the Water Shuriken page? --[[User:Seabiscuit2020|Seabiscuit2020]] ([[User talk:Seabiscuit2020|talk]]) 17:47, 23 October 2016 (UTC)
:We hardly know anything about who learns what and how for Gen VII. And even less for Ash-Greninja. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 17:49, 23 October 2016 (UTC)

== Editing categories ==

How do I edit the contents of a category? Specifically, I want to add harvest to {{cat|Abilities affected by weather conditions}}. [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 03:33, 26 October 2016 (UTC)
:If you want to add a page, like Harvest, to a category, then you need to edit Harvest and add a line that says "this belongs in that category", basically like [[Special:Diff/2521587|this]]. Note that this is at almost the very bottom of the page. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 03:42, 26 October 2016 (UTC)

== Litten name origin ==

I apologize if I didn't follow the proper procedure for the talk page, but I wanted to confirm what was being done. I was replying to a specific comment within the discussion, which was indented differently from the comments at the end of the thread. Putting it at the end makes it look like a non-sequitur, since the comments it follows are going in a different direction. That's how it's handled on other wikis, but Bulbapedia has its own rules on the matter and if that's how it should be done, I will make an effort to ensure that I follow them more properly next time. Thank you. --[[User:KingStarscream|KingStarscream]] ([[User talk:KingStarscream|talk]]) 03:50, 26 October 2016 (UTC)

== Unnecessary redirects ==

Hello, what is considered an unnecessary redirect? I know that {{redlink|Victorybell}} to [[Victreebel (Pokémon)]] isn't necessary as that has been deleted once, but how about Type:Null? Shouldn't this with the criteria given for the aforementioned exemple's deletion be counted as an unnecessary redirect and therefore be deleted? I'm asking because I recently marked the mentioned page for deletion but it was reverted by another useer, I don't want to start an edit war so I came directly to you. --[[User:Raltseye|Raltseye]] [[User talk:Raltseye|prata med mej]] 13:25, 26 October 2016 (UTC)
:We don't need any redirects with the disambiguating "Pokémon", with or without the accent in "Pokemon". These will only encourage mislinking, and the wiki finds titles with or without accents just fine currently with its search function. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 13:41, 26 October 2016 (UTC)
::Then [Type:Null (Pokemon)] is unnecessary in two ways. Could you or anyone in the staff then please delete it? --[[User:Raltseye|Raltseye]] [[User talk:Raltseye|prata med mej]] 14:14, 26 October 2016 (UTC)

==Opinion on something==
Although it looks like the Alola Starter's final evolutions look like they are taking a similar approach as the Kalos Starter's final evolutions in terms of secondary type, I don't think that the trivia piece should be updated as Incineroar would only take regular damage from Fairy-type moves as Fire resists Fairy. Do you agree with me on this? -[[User:Tyler53841|Tyler53841]] ([[User talk:Tyler53841|talk]]) 15:28, 27 October 2016 (UTC)
:Ghost and Fairy have completely neutral interactions. That breaks down any triangle already. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 15:32, 27 October 2016 (UTC)
::Okay. -[[User:Tyler53841|Tyler53841]] ([[User talk:Tyler53841|talk]]) 15:34, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

== Alola to Hawaii comparisons ==

Hello! I felt like posting here would be better to explain most of the Hawaii cultural references being presented in Sun and Moon's locations.
So yes, every island has a color associated with them. I think the earliest traces of this scheme is back in the 1970s during the revitalization of the Hawaiian culture, so its more of a modern thing than something from ancient Hawaii. But you can ask anyone who has attended school here in the past 30 years and it is safe to say that it is very common knowledge, especially with young elementary schoolers. Every island has a Lei that is used to represent that island. In turn, the colors of that Lei are used to represent the island as well. Here's a list of the major Islands with their Lei and associated colors:

*{{wp|Hawaii (island)|Big Island}} - {{wp|Metrosideros polymorpha|ōhiʻa lehua}} - ʻUlaʻula (red)
*{{wp|Maui}} - {{wp|Rosa × damascena|lokelani/roselani}} - ʻĀkala (Pink)
*{{wp|Oahu|Oʻahu}} - {{wp|Sida fallax|'Ilima}} - Melemele (Yellow)
*{{wp|Kauai|Kauaʻi}} - {{wp|Melicope|Mokihana}} - Poni (Purple)

The other four island not mentioned above also have lei and colors associated with them. I say lei and not flowers since Moloka'i and Ni'ihau's leis are not flower leis. Moloka'i's lei is prominently a vine with leaves rather than the flowers and Ni'ihau's lei is a shell necklace. In terms of finding most of the Hawaii geographical and cultural references/names, I have a pretty good grasp of most of them since I speak Hawaiian and I've lived here all my life.—[[User:Naui|Naui]] ([[User talk:Naui|talk]]) 22:48, 27 October 2016 (UTC)
:Half my "concern" was just how I'd add it to the page. It'd be easy to just say it's the island's "official color" after all. ^^ From your contributions and your approach so far, I'm inclined to believe you (especially when I can see the same info on Wikipedia, certainly =P ).
:I was also kind of thinking the other islands flowers might give a clue about where the other trial captains go, but for the ones we know for now at least, it looks like we're not that lucky. =( [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 22:55, 27 October 2016 (UTC)
::Nah, it's fine. But at the very basic level, the island colors are pretty common knowledge to those who live in Hawaii. "Official" might not be the correct word, but it is the "associated" color. And the general geography of each island seems to match some of the island's notable feature. Poni Island looks likes it has a canyon, which matches Kaua'i which has the Waimea Canyon, and Ula'ula island has the large mountain/volcano covered in snow, which is most likely Mauna Kea.
::TBH, I'm just passionate about helping out with information regarding Alola since it is Hawaii and i'm trying my best to get as much information out there of how much of a job Gamefreak is doing to make references to Hawaii. I just chime in whenever I see something related to Hawaii and the language just to put it out there (like Tapu Lele today). If you need to confirm any of the Hawaiian based names, I'd say to first visit wehewehe.org which is a free Hawaiian dictionary website so you can look up just about any Hawaiian word on there and its completely trustworthy as it was made using the University of Hawaii at Manoa's Hawaiian department and several masters of the Hawaiian language. It allows you to put in english words or the hawaiian word and find the word/meaning for the other.
::Anyways, if you need any help with the confirmation of any facts given, I am more than willing to help. Though I wonder if the names of the Alola cities will be the Hawaiian words for emotions. I suppose we'll have to wait until we find more cites.—[[User:Naui|Naui]] ([[User talk:Naui|talk]]) 23:13, 27 October 2016 (UTC)
:::Wehewehe.org is absolutely a place I've been looking. =) I didn't look into the background, but that's nice to know. I'm liking Game Freak's strong Hawaiian inspirations too. It's great that someone's hanging around who has a solid knowledge of the things the new games are based on. I'm sure it'll be very easy for us to screw something up or miss something, and then we'll be glad you're around. =P
:::As for the colors and stuff, I found the right page on Wikipedia to follow a citation to what appear to be Hawaiian legislature minutes (or something like that), so I've found the "proper" terminology I wanted. =P [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 23:24, 27 October 2016 (UTC)
::::Oh, that's pretty neat! I didn't realize how recent the "officiation" of the colors are. You learn something new everyday. Anyways, I suppose that's it for me. I don't really have much issues with any other pages at the moments that have some Hawaiian basis.—[[User:Naui|Naui]] ([[User talk:Naui|talk]]) 23:30, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

== Autotomize ==

Replied on my own talk page after over a week, but I realized you're not likely to see it there... anyway, I was given an info tooltip (on the lower touchscreen) during the totem Hakamo-o battle, and that's where I found the description for the ability. Operating purely on memory here, don't have my 3DS with me today, but I believe that's correct. [[User:Draceon|Draceon]] ([[User talk:Draceon|talk]]) 06:53, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

== Power vs. damage ==

'''Terrains''': Concerning affecting power vs. damage, am I allowed to change the current wording of the Terrains to what the Tapus' promo sites now support with their wording?

'''Minimize''': It's insane and frustrating: Stomp apparently went from doubling in nothing (Gen I), to power (II), to damage (III), to power (IV), to damage (V). (To quote Dragonflycave: "It's clear Game Freak doesn't care where or how some given multiplier is applied in the formula.") Anyway, according to UPC, it's consistent within one generation (and my user page should be accurate there now).

The problem is that {{m|Astonish}} or {{m|Heat Crash}}, for example, apparently never actually really "powered up". So, the way I understand it, there's a problem with the category. I can think of the following to remedy this:
# Rename the category to either (a) "Moves that become stronger against a Minimized opponent/target" or (b) "Moves that never miss against a Minimized opponent/target", and remove its "Moves that power up" parent category. And then add all moves that double(d) in power to "Moves that power up" ''as well''.
# Leave the category as is, just don't include Astonish etc.
# Leave the category as is, just add the moves anyway.{{tt|*|Do we (do I?) actually care tooooo much?}}
I'd be going for 1a (over 1b because that is the more used effect). Can I do that, should I do that? (Maybe there's something better you have in mind.)

Also, related: Is it okay to change any Gen VI Minimize-related "doubles power" to "doubles damage"? In Gen V, it was all damage ''according to UPC'', and assuming that they're all the same and unchanged in Gen VI seems the next best reasonable assumption anyway. (And my personal impression is that they began to care more for consistency somewhere in Gen IV or V.) [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 16:29, 28 October 2016 (UTC)
:In the absence of other reliable information, if an effect is officially described as affecting power or damage (or whatnot), then we can assume that applied previously as well.
:So...Astonish has a Minimize effect in Gen III that's never been noted, and we don't know what specifically Heat Crash does for its Minimize effect since that was introduced in Gen VI and Minimize is so unreliable in this mechanic... You're right, we should probably make it "Moves that become stronger against a Minimized target" and put "Moves that power up" anywhere where that was the specific effect for some time. (This vacillating group is certainly tempting me about a category for moves that get modified damage.)
:And yes, unless/until it can be proven otherwise, the reasonable assumption is that things in one generation carry forward the same into the next generation. (This actually applies exactly the same to the first part about the Terrains, just a little backwards. Assume Gen VI carried forward into Gen VII, and if the Terrains weren't specific about their effect in Gen VI but are in Gen VII, then that reasonably means that that's what was happening in Gen VI...until/unless proven otherwise.)
:[[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 17:01, 28 October 2016 (UTC)
::So, that's a go for me to move the category? Or you still thinking? (Btw, "Moves that [can] become stronger" is also my best bet for the super category you've been thinking about.) [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 17:22, 28 October 2016 (UTC)
:::Yes, the category should be changed and/or moved. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 17:50, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

== Vex templates ==

I'm a little confused, and I want to make sure I'm understanding right before I finish making the Vex7 page. I checked the previous 5 and they all show the correct image for the first Pokémon in that generation - I thought it was a display example for the template page, rather than a functional aspect. Am I missing something? [[User:Draceon|Draceon]] ([[User talk:Draceon|talk]]) 18:16, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
:First, a big note: please understand that templates must be created in the userspace and then approved for the mainspace. (In case you weren't aware.)
:It looks like Vex5 is a very odd mismatch actually, but I see what you mean otherwise, it didn't occur to me to check other versions of it. Anyway, it can kind of go either way really. ...I guess I'll just edit 5/6 so they're all defaulting the same. That's the easy solution for now. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 18:25, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
::I'm looking closer now and I may be changing my mind actually. Anyway, if you're creating a userpage, it can easily be edited before mainspacing if necessary. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 18:29, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
:::Oh shoot, I'm sorry, I didn't realize. I'll undo my edit to the Game exclusives page for now so the template isn't being "used", but I believe I added all the Alolan forms correctly. Wasn't sure how to add Lycanroc without it having a # yet. [[User:Draceon|Draceon]] ([[User talk:Draceon|talk]]) 18:45, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
:::Also, not sure of your opinion on this, but I believe Vex5 had Victini because it was technically the first Pokémon in the region, with the starters coming after because Victini was #000. I can see it either way, though, as there's a nice consistency in keeping all the grass starters for those templates. [[User:Draceon|Draceon]] ([[User talk:Draceon|talk]]) 18:50, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
::::If Vex5 wanted Victini it should have said "Victini" instead of "Snivy". =P (I don't ''really'' care either way, though, it was just simplest for now.)
::::Your template has been moved to [[User:Draceon/Vex7]] for now. Also be aware that pages intended for the mainspace should have the {{template|mainspace}} template at the top of the page, and if they are complete, the template should additionally have the parameter ''status=complete'' set.
::::Also, I'm not sure how much you're aware, but just in case/generally: try to make use of the preview button as often as you can. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 18:59, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
:::::I'm using previews quite often, as I have experience on some other wikis (SU, but especially MSPA), but I appreciate the advice. If I wasn't, my personal table project would've taken a significant number more edits than it has so far. If I seem to be forgetting important aspects often, it's most likely I'm unfamiliar with some of Bulbapedia's templates, and as with the gender page fiasco the other day, I was breaking my edits down by section. Sorry again for that. [[User:Draceon|Draceon]] ([[User talk:Draceon|talk]]) 19:05, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
:::::I didn't close the table on the Version Exclusives page, I see why you said that now. It didn't show up in the preview because I was editing from the previous section, so the next sections didn't show up in the preview. I see how that happened. [[User:Draceon|Draceon]] ([[User talk:Draceon|talk]]) 19:29, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
::::::I understand what happened on that page actually. I was saying it more for the Vex7 page you created (which definitely doesn't look like the previous templates, though I haven't currently looked close enough to understand why), as well as your previous userpage edits (which probably *could* have been saved in one single edit if you did enough previewing). [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 19:50, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
:::::::That's a fair analysis. Fwiw I'm not sure what's wrong with my Vex7 template, either. As far as I'm aware I copied the Vex6 template exactly and modified/added as needed, but it looks like I must have changed some key element which I haven't found yet to accidentally create the weird space around Rowlet's image. [[User:Draceon|Draceon]] ([[User talk:Draceon|talk]]) 20:20, 3 November 2016 (UTC)

== Stephanie Sheh confirmed her voice ==

https://twitter.com/stephaniesheh/status/794341720380973056 There. Stephanie Sheh proofed that she voiced Cheryl. Happy? --[[User:Cameron33268110|Cameron33268110]] ([[User talk:Cameron33268110|talk]]) 01:09, 4 November 2016 (UTC)
:That's perfect, thank you! [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 01:18, 4 November 2016 (UTC)

== Image switching ==

Hi, I was just wondering a number of things about the form-change images that are basically coded to switch every few hours (or the like, I'm not familiar with what the code is actually saying), or every month in Deerling's case. I noticed these in the type pages thanks to the table I'm working on in my userspace, and basically I'm not sure what the parameters are that we're making these decisions? It makes sense for Megas to be separate images/sections entirely, for obvious reasons like different abilities, types, etc. But I noticed that Shellos and Gastrodon are just separate images, instead of switching, whereas gender differences like Jellicent and Unfezant use that method. Some gender differences are incredibly subtle, but depending where we draw the line we could potentially include, say, Hippowdon. I'm not sure if these thumbnail images come from specific official sources / only show certain variations, is another thing. At the very least, I think Burmy's image should do the same thing, if not other form-difference Pokémon like Unown or Deoxys. I'd be willing to work on it myself, I'm just not sure where to start looking, like to see if the files even exist. Was hoping you could offer advice / mostly wondering your opinion on me going ahead and making some other Pokémon have switching icons. [[User:Draceon|Draceon]] ([[User talk:Draceon|talk]]) 05:15, 5 November 2016 (UTC)
:Going off what you say (and not looking deeply into it myself), genders are not forms, so that is probably why those icons are not displayed separately like Megas and other forms. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 06:38, 5 November 2016 (UTC)
::Just popping in briefly to point out that we removed many of our switches years ago and just finished clearing out the form-related ones earlier this year, so ''if'' any change is made, shouldn't we err on the side of removing switches rather than adding more? [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 16:38, 5 November 2016 (UTC)
:::That was on individual species pages, this is type pages, they are not really the same thing and should not be hastily painted with the same brush. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 16:44, 5 November 2016 (UTC)

== How do I use the menu sprite for Meloetta pirouette? ==

Right now, the only way I know to use a menu sprite is to type <nowiki>{{MSP|648|Meloetta}}</nowiki>. Doing it for Meloetta always causes its aria sprite to appear.

{{MSP|648|Meloetta}}

So how do I display the menu sprite of its pirouette form? [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 16:20, 6 November 2016 (UTC)
:{{MSP|648P|Meloetta}} Like that. [[User:ArcToraphim|Kai]] * the [[User talk:ArcToraphim|Arc]] [[Special:Contributions/ArcToraphim|Toraph]] 16:43, 6 November 2016 (UTC)

== Malva & The Ambiguity of Death ==

Hey, sorry for the profanity; I let my utter hatred of Malva cloud the judgment.

But... I do understand the fact that you can't confirm anything unless it's said so. That being said, you look at this: [https://i.imgur.com/RJ8j05b.jpg]

And you do have to fight the urge to say "She's dead!" because you don't normally fall hundreds of feet onto a pile of jagged rocks and just walk away (plus, blood coming out your head...). Plus, that last panel sort of depicts the remainder of the Kalos Elite Four more or less holding & viewing her as if she was deceased.

Though, I'm certain they'll bring her back to life somehow.

Anyway, that little spiel aside; I'm actually a worthy contributor and want to take part as best as I can. Just wanted to get the "Angry" garbage out in one take and be levelheaded afterward.

--[[User:Vulcanos|Vulcanos]] ([[User talk:Vulcanos|talk]]) 18:50, 6 November 2016 (UTC)
:I would suggest you speak to {{u|Ataro}}, who may be more familiar with manga events than I.
:I would also suggest that there may be a reasonable way to walk the line between committing either way. For example, instead of "the unconscious Malva", perhaps "the unresponsive Malva" instead, and instead of "Malva's unconscious body", perhaps just "Malva" (this should be perfectly acceptable whether she's alive or dead). [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 19:18, 6 November 2016 (UTC)

== Event template ==

Can you please add the following to the [[Template:Event Pokémon|Event Pokémon]] template: <nowiki>[[List of other event distributions in Generation VII|Gen VII]] ([[List of game-based other distributions in Generation VII|Game-based]])</nowiki>? I haven't gotten to that page yet, but I will hopefully soon. Also the trading page isn't needed and please add the serial code pages too, but they can be hidden for now (they will likely occur). '''[[User:Lady Ariel|Lady]] [[User talk:Lady Ariel|Ariel]]''' 23:42, 17 November 2016 (UTC)
:Is that game-based part for transferable items from the SM Demo? If we have a page for the same from the ORAS Demo, I don't know where it is. I'll refrain from that one until we can judge a sample. I imagine trading and serial codes both ''could'' occur... So I'll leave them both off until we see evidence of either. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 23:49, 17 November 2016 (UTC)
::The items weren't transferred by the same method in the ORAS demo as they are in the SM demo, which uses Wonder Cards for everything. I have had the data for these for about a week now, but I haven't gotten to creating pages for everything yet. It will be like [[List of game-based Pokémon distributions in Generation VII|this]] page, but it will use the layout from [[List of other event distributions in Generation VII|this]] page. As for the items from the ORAS demo, they never got a page since there really wasn't anything that could be said that wasn't already on the demo page. Should the Traded events in Generation VII page be left on the template, despite no known events for it? '''[[User:Lady Ariel|Lady]] [[User talk:Lady Ariel|Ariel]]''' 00:30, 18 November 2016 (UTC)
:::If you can show me an example, like, how you know the items use Wonder Cards too, I'd be happy to add it ASAP. Otherwise, if I can confirm it in a handful of hours myself, I'll be happy to add it then.
:::A list of traded event Pokemon in Gen VII can easily wait until it's needed to have a link in the Event template. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 00:52, 18 November 2016 (UTC)
::::I know they use Wonder Cards, because a moderator on Project Pokémon has been helping gathering all the new Generation VII event information for me the past week. If you would like me to I could send you some screenshots. You could also just look at this [https://twitter.com/iceposs2000/status/799114364221407233 post] which clearly shows them in the Wonder Cards (not the Wonder Card text though, but they are visible at the bottom). '''[[User:Lady Ariel|Lady]] [[User talk:Lady Ariel|Ariel]]''' 01:36, 18 November 2016 (UTC)
:::::Cool, thanks! Works for me. =) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 01:39, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

== [[Template:Catch/entry7]] problems ==

Not sure who is the best to contact with this, but since you created the template and have been adding the Pokémon encounters from Sun and Moon I figured I would contact you. I noticed that there is some major problems with the locations of how to encounter Pokémon in the template (and many of which I don't even know what they would be called).
#There is no "Surfing" in the game, which is replaced by [[Poké Ride|Lapras Paddle and Sharpedo Jet]]. Not sure how that should be in the template since that is such a long name for it, but "Surfing" is defiantly not an appropriate name for it.
#There is only one Fishing Rod in the game, which is just called Fishing Rod (no Old, Good, or Super Rods).
#This one is a little more complicated and I don't even know what these should be called, since as far as I know there isn't any names used in-game for them. They are similar to the [[phenomenon]] from Generation V, but again I don't believe they have any names used in-game. For example on the beach there is dust clouds (which also come out of dens in various locations throughout the game, but I think they use a slightly different sprite), in the water there is the ripples where different Pokémon can be encountered, and there is also shadows in some locations too (on Route 10 they are specifically shaped like Fearow when coming out of a rustling tree, where as the ones circling Route 3 are just circles).
#There is at least two different grass sprites uses, which are specific to certain locations (both are just regular grass though, except one is green and a brown one is used in more mountainous areas). So obviously the "brown grass" sprite (when uploaded obviously) would have to be on certain pages, but the "green grass" is far more common.
#There is Berry piles where {{p|Crabrawler}} appear occasionally (and running from it doesn't work as I have tried it, because no matter what you have to defeat or capture it since it will just keep appearing before any Berries can be collected).
#In some locations, like [[Melemele Meadow]], there is only flowers where Pokémon can be encountered.
That is all I can think of at the moment. Any ideas about how these should be handled and what most of these should be called? '''[[User:Lady Ariel|Lady]] [[User talk:Lady Ariel|Ariel]]''' 01:39, 25 November 2016 (UTC)
:Well, not everything has to match up to a specific switch case. Just using...whatever and letting the image default to blank can work very fine. (If you like, you are welcome to keep track of what "methods" you've used on which pages and maintain a list on the template's talk page so that down the line we can try to get images and ''then'' insert proper switch cases for them. The brown grass should probably be left as "Grass", and if you want to include a request for a specific sprite/case for it in your list, we can try to get to that down the line.)
:The surfing dilemma is a problem; I'll consider that. I should be able to fix the fishing rod. (Gimme a bit in case I can think of something for surfing as well and fix both together. In the meantime, use just "Fish" for the method.) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 05:30, 25 November 2016 (UTC)
::I fixed fishing. I want to think there's some image we can use for surfing rather than leaving it blank. I'm not in love with the Gen VI image, but I'm leaving (more or less) well enough alone for now. (I kind of like the idea of using an older sprite even; at any rate, something that's classically "surfing" but where the Pokemon is ambiguous.) In the meantime I've linked it to the Poke Ride page instead of Surf (move). [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 07:06, 25 November 2016 (UTC)
:::Okay sounds good to me. The other thing is going to be how the SOS Battles are listed, since their encounter rates are different from the regular Pokémon encountered. '''[[User:Lady Ariel|Lady]] [[User talk:Lady Ariel|Ariel]]''' 17:06, 25 November 2016 (UTC)
::::A little update here. I have added how the Diglett on {{rt|7|Alola}} are encountered. Does it look okay the way I have it added or is there something better to use for the wording (like I said before I don't think these have official names in-game; they might be in a guide book)? '''[[User:Lady Ariel|Lady]] [[User talk:Lady Ariel|Ariel]]''' 19:36, 25 November 2016 (UTC)
:::::I (IMO) smoothed out the div text a bit. The method is alright, like you say, there's not a perfect answer. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 19:42, 25 November 2016 (UTC)

== Cosmog/Cosmoem Ultra Beast status ==

I'm not the one who added it to the Ultra Beast/Cosmoem articles, but Cosmog and Cosmoem do come from the Ultra Space. --[[User:Celadonkey|--Celadonkey]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 20:54, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
:Please state your evidence very clearly somewhere like [[Talk:Ultra Beast]]. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 20:55, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

==Poké Pelago==
I am thinking of having a infobox made for the Poké Beans effects based on time duration since a regular bean is equal to 20 min., spotted for 1 hr. and rainbow to 2 hr., and keep it above the Isle Abeens sub-header. What do you think of this? -[[User:Tyler53841|Tyler53841]] ([[User talk:Tyler53841|talk]]) 19:40, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
:I've kind of been holding Poke Pelago to the side for the time, but that seems alright from what I can tell. I'll surely be checking everything out when I do start investigating it, though. =P
:FWIW (and maybe kind of unrelated, I'm not sure), I do think Poke Beans should have their own page at some point. I just don't know half enough at this point to make it myself. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 19:51, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
::Thanks, and right now using my own eyewitness account I am making sure that the general Poké Beans effects stays out of the different island sub-headers (as it is generally just the same thing and the area I placed it in should be enough). Also for level up information, only information on very specific things (such as Isle Aphun deserves to be noted). If you have better ideas for improving the information, at least you should be aware of my earlier plan. -[[User:Tyler53841|Tyler53841]] ([[User talk:Tyler53841|talk]]) 19:58, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

== Solgaleo and Lunala's Verbal Cries Etymology ==

Heya! Just an interesting fact, Solgaleo and Lunala's verbal cries in the game, not the soundbite ones, are Hawaiian words, but exteneded. I added them to the Solgaleo and Lunala pages, the translations of their cries under their name origin, but I'm not too sure if it should've been there or in the trivia. I just wanted to let you know to see what you think.—[[User:Naui|Naui]] ([[User talk:Naui|talk]]) 23:17, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
:It's interesting enough to me. I don't know what various other people may think. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 23:19, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
::Ok, well I suppose I'll just leave it there and if someone wants to move it to another section, I guess it's up to them.—[[User:Naui|Naui]] ([[User talk:Naui|talk]]) 23:24, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

== Special magnetic field ==

Since the staff have apparently not yet reached it while reviewing the candidates for mainspacing category, may I please suggest that y'all take a look at {{redlink|User:Pumpkinking0192/Special magnetic field}}? The lists of locations on our pages (such as [[Methods of evolution]], the worst offender because it's in a tiny template) are getting a bit ridiculous already, and the list is only going to get longer with every new game that comes out, so I feel mainspacing this page is an imperative sooner or later. Thanks for your consideration! [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 04:11, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
:Never mind, SnorlaxMonster went ahead and did it :) [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 05:08, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

== Question about my trivia pages ==

Am I allowed to add my trivia pages to [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Category:Lists_of_Pok%C3%A9mon this]? (I couldn't figure out how to link to it without using the external links template) [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 18:51, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
:If you're talking about user pages, user pages do not belong in mainspace categories. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 18:56, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
::Can a category be considered a mainspace category even if it has user pages in it? [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 05:15, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
:::I'm not sure what you're trying to ask.
:::If there is a specific category you are doubting somehow, it would be great if you could say which. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 05:19, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
::::[http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Category:Lists_of_Pok%C3%A9mon Lists of Pokemon] [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 16:51, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
:::::I've removed the user pages. Thanks for pointing it out. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 18:06, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

== PokeRide Trivia ==

''This is notable overall, but on an individual level, it's more clutter than worth including (IMO) (the table rows should be useful info; those notes are basically trivia: not useful)''\

I do feel that the information about which feature replaces which move is notable and should be included somewhere. What about adding it to the Field move page? Like for Rock Smash: ''In Pokemon Sun and Moon, the use of this move was replaced by the Tauros Charge function of the Poke Ride feature.'' What do you think? → [[User talk:PikaTepig999|PikaTepig999]] 09:02, 13 December 2016 (UTC)
:It should be fine to mention the specific Ride Pokemon on {{m|Rock Smash}}, [[Dowsing Machine]], {{m|Surf}} (probably Lapras and Sharpedo), {{m|Fly}}, and {{m|Strength}}. I wouldn't claim that the Bicycle is "replaced" by anything; at most I'd say something simpler like some Poke Rides can allow the player to move quickly like the Bicycle. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 15:29, 13 December 2016 (UTC)
::What about ''In Sun and Moon, the bicycle is not present, but the Tauros Charge and Stoutland Charge features of the Poke Ride have a similar use.'' ?? → [[User talk:PikaTepig999|PikaTepig999]] 16:02, 13 December 2016 (UTC)
:::If you really want to name them, then I'd say, not "have a similar use", but something like "also provide faster than normal means of travel". Those Rides have other expressed intended uses; their speed isn't explicitly one of those. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 16:28, 13 December 2016 (UTC)

== Kanto pokerap ==

Is that actually edit warring. I didn't make exactly the same edit. The point still stands it's unsourced and I found nothing to suggest that Christians objected to the whole "I love you satan".

Are you going to seriously allow unsourced information to remain on this site? That wasn't right to make it visible as you didn't provide a source.[[User:Ratchet and Clank 1995|Ratchet and Clank 1995]] ([[User talk:Ratchet and Clank 1995|talk]]) 17:40, 14 December 2016 (UTC)
:You're removing it from the page. Don't try and split hairs, thanks.
:I can understand if you're feeling frustration, but again, edit warring is not the way to address it. Always keep in mind that there are also higher {{bp|staff}} members who you can take an issue to if you feel there is something truly wrong with another's decision. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 20:02, 14 December 2016 (UTC)
::The information is still unsourced. I discussed it with Force Fire and he said he'll find one when it's not midnight where he is, that was a few days ago and still no source has been found. You said that edit warring is not how you solve things but neither is adding back unsourced information which is not reliable. May I also add that you reverted SilverZoroark by adding back the Yveltal Black Death information on the basis of edit warring but in the end I guess he/she was right as recently that information was removed. You maybe shouldn't just revert someone only on the basis of edit warring because they might actually be right. Finally it's edit WARRING a war is always at least a two way thing, this wouldn't have occurred if a source was provided at the beginning of this dispute.[[User:Ratchet and Clank 1995|Ratchet and Clank 1995]] ([[User talk:Ratchet and Clank 1995|talk]]) 09:40, 16 December 2016 (UTC)
:::Let's be very clear, Ratchet and Clank 1995: you have a history of edit warring. A rather egregious one at that. You have, perhaps, been relatively better about that, but I'm absolutely not interested in rewarding a resurgence of that behavior from you. And "rightness" doesn't get you anything, especially not if it's subjective. Even if it's an '''''absolutely''''' crystal clear issue, we are fully within our rights to block ''anyone'' contributing to an edit war, whatever "side" they're on. Edit warring is not appropriate dispute resolution; end of story.
:::You're right, everything's ''kind of'' bad here. But it's also tagged with "citation needed" already, at least making readers aware of the issue. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 16:26, 16 December 2016 (UTC)
::::Having the "citation needed" shows that this site knows that the information information is bad but doesn't care about this myth. This MYTH shouldn't be on this site as it's unsourced and apparently a source doesn't even exist. You making it visible is unprofessional and worse than keeping it visible or removing it all together.[[User:Ratchet and Clank 1995|Ratchet and Clank 1995]] ([[User talk:Ratchet and Clank 1995|talk]]) 11:11, 17 December 2016 (UTC)

== Animal Facts in "Trivia" Section ==

Hello Tiddlywinks!

I am new to contributing on Bulbapedia, and just wanted to clarify:

With many Pokemon articles, I have seen the "Trivia" section filled with facts about real animals that, in some way, correlate to the traits or appearance of a Pokemon (e.g. Pyukumuku). When I did this on the Passimian article, my edit removed, stating that I needed an official source.
What is the difference? I doubt if Pokemon staff told a contributor the exact species of sea cucumber that Pyukumuku is based on & explained their choice for the correlation of features. Where is the distinction between what is and isn't allowed in the wholly-theoretical Origin section without needing sources?

Thank you for your time!

[[User:Lemur|Lemur]] ([[User talk:Lemur|talk]]) 23:06, 18 December 2016 (UTC)
:You can add anything you want so long as you don't say "X *is* based on Y". Say something like "X may be based on Y" or "X resembles Y" or "has characteristics of". (Not really "anything", though, of course.) Whenever Pyukumuku was edited, it just got missed; I've corrected it.
:Your edit also was not removed, certain parts of what you added were retained.
:You're welcome. ^_^ [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 23:24, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

::Ahh, gotcha! I thought I had done so in my edit; my apologies if I missed it in that section! I tried to express that they were suggested similarities, while also avoiding being repetitive with wording, so I'll try to just be more mindful of ensuring that such comparisons are merely conjecture!

::Thank you for the answer, and for your feedback! And I do appreciate that some of my edits were retained! :)

::On a somewhat-related note: Is it acceptable to refer to relevant photos of potential origin material (e.g. creating a link to a photo uploaded to Wikipedia)? We found a photo of a ruffed lemur that even has a pose that is incredibly similar to Passimian, and thought it might be fun to refer to in the article (by simply adding it in a note similar to "Ruffed lemurs possess a similar gait to Passimian"). If this is not common practice, however, then no worries; I was just curious, since it seemed like a fun trivia thing that could be added! :)
::[[User:Lemur|Lemur]] ([[User talk:Lemur|talk]]) 23:41, 18 December 2016 (UTC)
:::Like you say, linking to images isn't something we practice (as far as I know). Maybe not? (I may also just be resistant to new things. But anyway, that's my gut reaction.) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 23:48, 18 December 2016 (UTC)
::::I'm not the one who added the edit to Tapu Koko, but from what you said, shouldn't it be ok to say TK "may also be inspired by {{wp|Kū|Kūkaʻilimoku}}, one of the four major Hawaiian gods and god of war and conflict, who is often represented by feathered idols", like Naui did? After all, we do this sort of thing on most legendary pages. ----[[User:Celadonkey|Celadonkey]] 02:34, 22 December 2016 (UTC)
:::::Wait, never mind. You did keep it. ----[[User:Celadonkey|Celadonkey]] 02:35, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

== Bruxish ==
Ah, sorry about that. Though I should mention that the Hawaii State House Bill that officiated its status lists it primarily as Humuhumunukunukuapua'a and is locally called that, rather than Reef Triggerfish. In fact, the rectangular triggerfish is the proper english name for the specific state fish. Source from here: [http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol01_Ch0001-0042F/HRS0005/HRS_0005-0011_0005.HTM]—[[User:Naui|Naui]] ([[User talk:Naui|talk]]) 04:05, 22 December 2016 (UTC)
:Yeah, it's just overall simpler to link straight to Wikipedia's main title, and they're all still the same thing, so that works fine. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 04:07, 22 December 2016 (UTC)
::Ok, sounds good with me. Quick question about the Pokemon World to Real World page, why did you remove the Okinas again? It's proper Hawaiian and most of the state signs and local maps retain the Okinas and Kahakos (vowel elongation) due to the proper Hawaiian grammar and the original names. Sure "Hawaii" is proper for the Americanized writing of the state name, but it doesn't make sense in Hawaiian as you can't have the same vowel next to each other. The okina is a glottal stop and is considered an actual alphabet letter in Hawaiian. Personally as a Hawaiian, it's really weird not to see it with the proper punctuation. I mean, you noted the Japanese names by keeping their Kanji for the place names, it's kind of the same thing for these Hawaii locations. It's more me nitpicking, but it doesn't sit well with me as a Hawaiian. —[[User:Naui|Naui]] ([[User talk:Naui|talk]]) 04:14, 22 December 2016 (UTC)
:::I suppose you have some point insofar as the tables on that "[...] real world" page are concerned. I'll bring the question up with other staff and try to figure out just how we should handle those tables.
:::Otherwise, Hawaiian may seem very close to English since it uses the same script, but at the same time it's still about as different as Japanese. This wiki doesn't use Hawaiian, just like it doesn't use Japanese. There are specific places they're appropriate, but as a rule, plain American/English spelling should be used (where there's a reasonable English equivalent, that is). In particular for instance, in image captions and other generic prose, "Hawaii" will always be most appropriate. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 04:53, 22 December 2016 (UTC)
::::Ok, sounds logical. I'll keep that in mind for future edits. I think as of today I've added all of the Hawaii mythology and history related references that I can think of.—[[User:Naui|Naui]] ([[User talk:Naui|talk]]) 05:54, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

== What do you mean Solgaleo wasn't wild? ==

I don't think it was actually Lillie's Pokemon; it was never in a ball. Besides, even if it isn't wild, can't we just mention the bullet point without the word "wild"? [[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 07:45, 22 December 2016 (UTC)
:These are a sort of event. It doesn't seem too surprising that it can have special moves. And when all's said and done, I'm really not sure a note like that belongs on Pokemon pages anywhere at all. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 17:09, 22 December 2016 (UTC)
::Okay, so where would it belong? [[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 17:21, 22 December 2016 (UTC)
:::Their movesets are already given on [[List of in-game event Pokémon in Generation VII]]. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 17:23, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

==Mismagius's TORSO!==
Hi, I came to ask why my edit to Mismagius was deleted, even though I was correcting a mistake. It's not a "circular lump," it's a torso.
[[User:Sirspykerks|Sirspykerks]] ([[User talk:Sirspykerks|talk]]) 19:43, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

==Page move==
Could you please move Lack-Two to Blake (Adventures) and Whi-Two to Whitley. The page move ability is protected and if you need proof check out both character's talk pages, as I have verfied and updated both talk pages respectively. -[[User:Tyler53841|Tyler53841]] ([[User talk:Tyler53841|talk]]) 20:41, 3 January 2017 (UTC)
:Never mind, Ataro is handling it. -[[User:Tyler53841|Tyler53841]] ([[User talk:Tyler53841|talk]]) 20:42, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

== Item Section ==

Hey, hope you don't mind me contacting you here, but it seems it's easier to coordinate this way than through the article's talk page. (which tends to be untouched for a while)

I do agree that a group of four items is a rather specific subsection, but the In-battle Effect Items section is actually full of a lot smaller subclasses-Choice Items, Herbs, HP-Restoring, Turn Order Alteration and Focus Items all consist of two or three items, which is even smaller than the set of four seeds. Moves and abilities relating to the four terrains are all linked together in their pages, so it seems like it'd be similarly helpful to have four variations of an item in one section. I do see how "Terrain Seed" is a bit restrictive, though-maybe it could be changed to "Terrain-based" instead? (though it might cause some confusion with the Terrain Extender)

I hope this doesn't come off as argumentative-If you're still not okay with this, I won't push it any further, I just hoped to explain how it could be useful instead of just adding an excess sub-header
[[User:TechSkylander1518|TechSkylander1518]] ([[User talk:TechSkylander1518|talk]]) 23:04, 3 January 2017 (UTC)
:Most of those don't have effects that fit under the other sections. The seeds do. Electric Seed's effect, for instance, reads ''very'' much like Cell Battery's, which is right above it. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 23:09, 3 January 2017 (UTC)
::I'm seeing the pattern now, that definitely makes sense. Thank you for replying! [[User:TechSkylander1518|TechSkylander1518]] ([[User talk:TechSkylander1518|talk]]) 23:12, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

== Signature move navigation templates? ==

Hi there! I was recently reading some signature move articles, and I realized that when a Pokémon has multiple signature moves, we don't have any way to navigate between them easily — most (maybe all?) just have "it is one of the signature moves of X" in the intro, without a list of the other moves. I know I personally would find it very useful to be able to go straight from one move's page to another without having to visit the species' page's Biology section in between, and I think others would find it useful too, so I thought I should suggest something to fix that.

I made a few mockups in my userspace of navigation templates we could use at the bottom of signature move pages: [[User:Pumpkinking0192/Signature move navigation]]. I apologize that I don't know enough about templates to make a single overall template like [[Template:Variations]], but I hope this is at least enough of a proof of concept that the Editorial Board can consider whether it's worth developing for the mainspace. Thanks for your consideration! [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 20:03, 4 January 2017 (UTC)
:The inclusion of colors for the generations, and/or the lack of an explicit separation between them and the moves, makes it very busy and perhaps crowded. (I definitely think there's such a thing as too much color.)
:I'd almost rather just add specific categories, like "Vespiquen's signature moves". [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 20:20, 4 January 2017 (UTC)
::Categories are also a solution. I'd even be happy with them being listed in the intro. I just thought there should be ''some'' way of navigating between them, and since we already have a move variations template, I used it as a basis for my examples. (I actually don't know how to code a template to do an explicit separation, but I agree that it needs one. The move variations template just had the symbols for physical/special/status, so it didn't use one, so I didn't have an example of one to copy.) [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 20:28, 4 January 2017 (UTC)

== A lot to learn about these policies ==

Sorry. {{unsigned|Hamfart}}

== Can you please add [[Thousand Arrows]] to [[Template:TypeEffectiveness]]? ==

On [[Oricorio]]'s page:

If Gravity is in effect, this Pokémon is given an Iron Ball or a Ring Target, or it is affected by Smack Down or Ingrain, the effectiveness of Ground-type moves is 2×.

Thousand Arrows would also break this rule.[[User:Pumpkinking0192]] suggests changing the whole thing to if the Pokemon is [[grounded]]. Anyway, can you please update this? I asked SnorlaxMonster 3 weeks ago, but he never wrote back. Thanks. [[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 16:26, 21 January 2017 (UTC)

== Amity Square ==

Hi! Just a query about the Amity Square thing. The table at the top of the page suggests that you can walk these Pokémon in DP Post-national Dex (they don't have a Pt sign on them). One of the comments on the discussion page also mentions walking their Shroomish in Pearl. So are they walkable or not in DP?--[[User:Wowy|'''Wowy''']][[User talk:Wowy|'''(토크)''']] 04:55, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
:Well I was able to walk Shroomish in Diamond and picked up Blue scale, Jagged boulder, Pink scale, Big leaf and a Black beard. I also walked Jigglypuff and picked up Blue scale, Pink scale, White feather and Thin mushroom. So they're certainly walkable in DP, but I'm not sure if that's what you're getting at when you said "they're not in DP". On another note, neither of them seem to fit any of the categories in the DP table. --[[User:Wowy|'''Wowy''']][[User talk:Wowy|'''(토크)''']] 06:24, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
::Argh. The DP ''and'' Pt guides apparently both only list those seven Pokemon when it says who you can walk with. The Pt guide doesn't have a "drop" (or pick up) list, but DP's list also only lists what those seven can pick up. I knew there was some difference between DP and Pt and I figured that was part of it. (I didn't even see/remember the "permitted" list at the top of our page either.) Sorry. Thanks for checking in-game. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 12:19, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
:::No worries! Unfortunately I think I've already obtained the maximum number of accessories for a lot of them, and so I can't check in-game for what they can pick up. And these Post-NDex ones don't seem to fit in the already existing groups.--[[User:Wowy|'''Wowy''']][[User talk:Wowy|'''(토크)''']] 06:12, 23 January 2017 (UTC)

== Warning templates ==

Hi, I just saw your warning on [[User talk:GeniusMike]] and thought I'd ask, is there some reason there isn't a warning template for edit warring? You told me about the warning templates a while ago, and I have been using them since (hopefully in an appropriate manner!), but I've been hesitant on warning about edit warring because no such template exists and I don't want to misrepresent policy. Is edit warring a sufficiently severe offense that it should be warned about only by admins, or should someone create a template for edit war warnings? I think the aforementioned warning you gave earlier today would be a good start for a template, and perhaps a good entire template. --[[User:Xolroc|Felthry]] (F.K.A. Xolroc) ([[User talk:Xolroc|talk]]) 16:49, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
:I've thought the same myself before, but I know of no reason there's no template for it. I've liked what I've seen others have written and I try to at least hit the same points basically. I have no idea if anyone else has their own text they may copy/paste or anything; me, I basically go off the cuff every time. I'll go ahead and bring up the thought with the wider staff. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 17:06, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
::Excellent, let me know if such a template gets added. Is there a strict definition we use for edit wars? Like, two reversions in a row (i.e. reverting an edit that reverted your previous edit) or something? --[[User:Xolroc|Felthry]] (F.K.A. Xolroc) ([[User talk:Xolroc|talk]]) 17:17, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
:::There's not an absolute line, per se, no. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 17:27, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
::::Just wondering, did anything come of this? If so, it should be added to [[:Category:Warning templates]]. --[[User:Felthry|Felthry]] ([[User talk:Felthry|talk]]) 18:10, 30 January 2017 (UTC)
:::::Yes and no. There's nothing to add now. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 18:17, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

== Old reverted changes in Crystal & Silver and Gold articles ==

Hello,

I never came back to check if my contributions stuck. I noticed that you had reverted the battery life / battery replacement passages on [[Pokémon Crystal Version]] ([http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Pok%C3%A9mon_Crystal_Version&diff=prev&oldid=2423935]) and [[Pokémon Gold and Silver Versions]] ([http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Pok%C3%A9mon_Gold_and_Silver_Versions&diff=prev&oldid=2423937]). I understand that the wiki isn't a how-to guide to electronics but in their current state the articles are misleading and to be honest untruthful. They say that it is a necessity for the saves to be deleted while this is not the case. I've renewed a few cartridges without losing the save via the methods described. I would also like to point out that since it's all really low voltage live soldering isn't dangerous. Yeah, dropping a solder ball on the circuitry will short it and you have no chance to fix that but it isn't dangerous per se (unless you referred 'dangerous' as in can damage the equipment). Nothing can catch fire. I would really like to edit the articles in a way that they suggest there exist methods for replacing the battery without losing the save file. While describing the method isn't in the scope of this wiki it would still be important that any reader seeking information about the battery problem wouldn't be dismayed by the condemning "replacing the battery ''will'' destroy the save file". --[[User:Black Eagle|Black Eagle]] ([[User talk:Black Eagle|talk]]) 09:44, 23 January 2017 (UTC)
:I've edited the sections to address your most fundamental concern. The new wording should, perhaps, imply to anyone with a modicum of know-how that they don't have to lose the save (although if they have a modicum of know-how, they probably don't really need such a hint anyway). I'm still very uncertain that in-depth work-around instructions are needed, especially when potential "liabilities" are considered. (In a sort of informal sense, at least. It wouldn't be great if someone had cause to accuse us of breaking their game.) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 15:26, 23 January 2017 (UTC)
::I agree on the technical part. Thank you for attempting to address the issue. I referred SnorlaxMonster to this discussion, although I was considering moving it entirely to either article's talk page. The articles still mention GameShark as a utility for backing up a save. GameShark isn't a brand owned by Nintendo so I find it a little comical that they come across as a more legitimate way of preserving a save file than does replacing the battery, which is non-invasive code-wise. GameShark is obviously non-invasive hardware-wise, but even though you preserved a save file this way you'd still need to replace the battery anyway (which the article correctly states). I'm probably repeating myself but one solution could be to change the wording "{...}''will'' cause any current save file to be lost" to something tad milder. For example "Since it powers the save file, interrupting the power by removing the battery will cause any current save file to be lost '''unless the memory remains powered by external means'''." --[[User:Black Eagle|Black Eagle]] ([[User talk:Black Eagle|talk]]) 16:38, 23 January 2017 (UTC)
:::I'm sorry, I can't really get past the simple fact that I just don't like that suggestion. I don't know how to express "why" that is well; all I can really think is that is seems redundant. If you wish, I'd advise you to indeed bring it up on one of the article's talk pages for wider input, or take it to a higher staff member. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 17:36, 23 January 2017 (UTC)

== GO November update ==

If you're there real quick: We don't want to add a line to species pages the way we added lines to move pages, right? (Stats have changed, in case you didn't know. And there's no dedicated GO section at species pages.)

How about I update the stats at species pages (minus those that lack an image), invent some new params along the way (for pre-November stats), and when you've made up your mind on how you want to display the changes (footnote/tooltip/..), you (or anyone who can) updates the template accordingly? Seems more flexible than just outright adding a tooltip (which I don't think is an ideal solution anyway). [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 20:41, 29 January 2017 (UTC)
:If you can't go back to it, the note you seem to have added to the GO base stats page is about all that's necessary (although I also think it's also fairly pointless to link to the old version, or to do it quite like that). The moves were, as you say, easy enough to just add a comment to since they have their own section, but IMO that too was mostly pointless. Giving that a pass was just the path of least resistance; but if it will conflict with this (in such a way that someone can say "if it's notable for each move then it ''must'' be notable for each Pokemon as well"), then I would definitely rather say that it should be removed from move pages rather than mucking with the Pokemon info for something so trivial.
:It's possible I'm missing something. It's possible other staff more invested in GO than I would think differently. But you asked me, and that's my opinion... [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 21:13, 29 January 2017 (UTC)
::Yes, I am very much in support of not losing any information that was relevant once. (I actually think you might be as well.) I don't care where it is then, but somewhere on the wiki. For that outdated stat information, maybe moving the page to a subpage ("../pre-November") would be better, but because I'm hesitant to move the page and because it is static anyway, I opted to just link to the old revision (at least until staff decides to do the move, if they do).
::I'm basically asking what I am supposed to do now, for I intend to go through the pages only once. Do you want me to not add a param, just overwrite old values? Or do I add a param, and you guys basically figure out what to do with it, how to display it?
::So, I'm not really pushing for a param. I would personally add an extra param, I guess, but it doesn't really matter when I can't edit the template anyway. Right now, I'm just trying to coordinate things, to save us some work in the future. And in general, I'm also trying to not completely lose information. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 21:31, 29 January 2017 (UTC)
:::I think the stats on the species pages just need to be updated to be correct, and that's all that's needed. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 21:35, 29 January 2017 (UTC)
::::Ok, thanks. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 21:37, 29 January 2017 (UTC)

== Zygarde ==

As I'm sure you know, there has been some discussion for the last year or two about Zygarde's place as a trio with Xerneas and Yveltal, and the reasoning behind why we haven't included it. ForceFire said that a main reason is "lack of game or anime evidence". When I contacted ForceFire about SS036, which I believe has evidence proving Zygarde is indeed part of the trio, he said "I have an extremely limited understanding of the Japanese language and am not going to follow what fansubs say, since they usually take liberties. But I will bring it up with the other staff members and we will discuss it". (This was when there was no English dub.) Now that there is an English dub, I tried contacting him two or three days ago, and he hasn't responded. Could you give some feedback? --[[User:Celadonkey|Celad]][[User_talk:Celadonkey|onkey]] 16:31, 30 January 2017 (UTC)
:It's not exactly my specialty. I'll ask. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 17:07, 30 January 2017 (UTC)
::Cool, thanks. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celad]][[User_talk:Celadonkey|onkey]] 18:41, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

== Aura trio/mascot trio? ==

Why would the Aura Trio not be a mascot trio? I know Zygarde is not a game mascot, but where does that leave Xerneas ans Yveltal? And anyways, the page says "The mascot trios, whose name comes from the fact that all of them are game mascots, are not allowed in the Battle Tower", and none of them, not even Zygarde, are allowed in the Battle Tower. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celad]][[User_talk:Celadonkey|onkey]] 17:48, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
:The options are probably, either keep XYZ out of the "mascots" table, or add Suicune and company to it along with XYZ. If you feel strongly about it, I might suggest that this is a topic for wider discussion than my talk page.
:As far as the line about the Battle Tower, Zygarde is still not a game mascot. This is hardly some rule the games have explicitly stated, anyway. I'd suggest that that line shouldn't factor into your concerns for the time being. The main point would be to figure which table Zygarde (and/or Suicune) "belongs" in and how that can be reasonably justified. Once that's settled, the line about the Battle Tower can be modified if necessary. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 18:03, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
::In that case, I'd have to go with either we put the Beasts in Mascot Trios, or... This might sound crazy but I think we should either change Normal/Mascot trios to Normal/Special legend trios (or something like that, you get the idea, IMO makes a lot more sense) or get rid of the split altogether. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celad]][[User_talk:Celadonkey|onkey]] 18:14, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
:::I know this is off topic, but I think that we still should have the Eternal Floette data on the Floette page. You mentioned that it hasn't been released yet, but Marshadow has its page because anyone can modify their save and put in a Marshadow... why not the same for Floette? --[[User:Celadonkey|Celad]][[User_talk:Celadonkey|onkey]] 18:31, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
::::Marshadow is a whole Pokemon. Floette is one form of a Pokemon; a form which has remained unreleased for a whole generation. There's significant differences there that make comparisons between them less than entirely logical. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 19:42, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
:::::I don't quite understand, but ok. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celad]][[User_talk:Celadonkey|onkey]] 20:06, 2 February 2017 (UTC)

== The Yamcha pose is not notable?! ==

Of course it is notable, it is one of most widely known Dragon Ball memes and known far beyond just fans of Dragon Ball. It was parodied my many other manga and anime. How can it not be notable?!--[[User:Arisboch|Arisboch]] ([[User talk:Arisboch|talk]]) 16:22, 6 February 2017 (UTC)
:I really don't think it's known that "far" beyond DBZ, because I certainly didn't know, and I've been a bit of a DBZ fan (though not so much on the internet). More to the point, that "pose" is incredibly generic. There's nothing about it that should make it iconically DBZ, except to people steeped in the fandom/memes. Unless there's a very clear reason to think it's a "parody", it's no better than a guess. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 16:28, 6 February 2017 (UTC)

== How do I report cross wiki vandalism? ==

Hello and salutations,

I do not know who to ask but since you are an admin at Bulbapedia I would like to know how to report a cross-wiki vandal originating from this site. The reason why I am sending you this message is because I suspect a banned/disgruntled user of Bulbapedia is spreading disinformation regarding a certain Pokémon's origin by vandalizing other wikis in trying to perpetuate a hoax. What type of documentation/evidence should I provide? The reason of my inquiry is due to the vandal is using the same type of diction/vocabulary to push an agenda out of spite. I witnessed this person vandalise at least 2 wikis in the past but since I am not an authority on wikis/Pokémon I cannot warn them of this serial vandal. What type of evidence should I provide? I tried messaging another admin but they seem to be inactive. I apologize for the inconvenience I may have caused you, but the intellectual dishonesty of this vandal should not continue unabated.

I apologize for being verbose, English is not my native tongue.

[[User:Plastro|Plastro]] ([[User talk:Plastro|talk]]) 23:36, 10 February 2017 (UTC)
:I'm not sure what you want. It's not likely we can stop anyone from doing anything on ''other'' sites... It sounds like those other wikis are the ones you need to talk to/help out if they aren't aware of problems with a user's edits. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 23:50, 10 February 2017 (UTC)

::I know the other wikis are out of your jurisdiction and I am sorry for bothering you. I realize that I may draw suspicion or perhaps acrimony from my past edits/account history. The purpose of this message is to warn you about this vandal originating from here:

::http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Talk:Sylveon_(Pok%C3%A9mon)#Sylveon_is_feline.2C_not_canine.

'''List of actions below:'''

'''He/she targeted the Pokemon Wikia under the username "Moonlit Sylveon"'''
The talk page is filled with him/her lamenting about past history at Bulbapedia
Userpage: http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:Moonlit_Sylveon

'''His/Her pattern of Vandalism'''
::http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/Eevee?diff=prev&oldid=513670
::http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/Flareon?diff=prev&oldid=513651
::http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/Jolteon?diff=prev&oldid=513647
::http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/Vaporeon?diff=prev&oldid=513656
::http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/Glaceon?diff=prev&oldid=513678

Note that he/she made about 4 thousand edits there.

'''People trying to reason with Him/Her ended up like this:'''
::http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Pok%C3%A9mon_Wiki?diff=prev&oldid=590976

'''The vandal also targeted the French Pokepedia by starting an edit war in these pages'''
::http://www.pokepedia.fr/index.php?title=%C3%89voli&diff=841141&oldid=837929
::http://www.pokepedia.fr/index.php?title=%C3%89voli&diff=846442&oldid=844578
::http://www.pokepedia.fr/index.php?title=%C3%89voli&diff=902874&oldid=901803

If you go to the article page in question under edit history one will notice the same agenda being pushed.
The mods there eventually got fed up and restricted editing there.

'''User is targeting Wikipedia'''

::https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Eevee&oldid=745541938
Vandal uses same diction and vocabulary from since he started in the Pokemon wiki.
Manages to get past protected article that links to Bulbapedia.

'''The vandal is also mentioned on other sites'''
::http://wikipediocracy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=8138
::https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/221457633

'''The vandal also uses SEO manipulation and is actively astroturfing amazon.'''
Uses the same language/agenda as before. Here are some examples:

::https://www.amazon.com/Pokemon-Center-Original-Kuttari-Stuffed/product-reviews/B011QQ2CWK
::https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pokemon-Center-Original-life-size-stuffed/dp/B00DDDU15U
::http://www.ebay.com/itm/Takara-Tomy-Pokemon-MC-029-Eevee-XY-Pocket-Monster-Moncolle-Mini-Figure-Japan-/221635779745/?_ul=SV
::https://www.amazon.com/Pokemon-Original-Kuttari-stuffed-Glaceon/dp/B0177R74N4

You may be asking how I got this information. The vandal operates from a well known site, I will not mention the name but they are notorious for raiding and trolling for the lolz.
He/she uses autism as "justification" for his/her actions. May or may not be active again and will probably start a new wave of vandalism. I just wanted to warn you about this vandal. This is my only intent in sending this message. I am sorry for inconveniencing you and Bulbapedia.

[[User:Plastro|Plastro]] ([[User talk:Plastro|talk]]) 01:19, 11 February 2017 (UTC)
:::If you feel it's such a problem, you're probably best off joining those other sites and arguing your own position. I don't think there's anything we can really do with this information. Thanks for your concern, though. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 01:33, 11 February 2017 (UTC)

== Branched evolution table ==

Hey there! I was feeling that the stat-comparison table for branched evolutions on the [[Evolution]] page doesn't really belong — the page is supposed to be a general overview of evolution, but the table seems needlessly in-depth compared to the level of detail of every other section on that page. I think the stat comparisons, if we need them at all, would fit better on [[List of Pokémon with branched evolutions]] instead. To that end, I've made a mockup of a change to that page's table to include the stat comparisons. You can find it at [[User:Pumpkinking0192/Branched evolutions]]. What do you think? Thanks for your consideration! [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 19:53, 18 February 2017 (UTC)
:I think you're right. Since there's a "main" link, that sort of detail fits better there. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 02:42, 19 February 2017 (UTC)

== Pokémon pronunciation? ==

Would it be worth it to add the pronunciation for each Pokémon (according to official media, of course; alternate pronunciations would be listed by what media they're from, in IPA, preferrably)? If so, where would we put it? I would be more than willing to help. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celad]][[User_talk:Celadonkey|onkey]] 02:50, 19 February 2017 (UTC)
:It was on species' pages once upon a time, but it was removed. I.e., the short answer is pretty much "no".
:There may or may not be a bit of support on the staff for adding something back, I'm not sure, but the problem is it's a complicated question. There's not always one "right" way, which would be ideal. I don't think it's a very big priority for anyone, though. [[User:SnorlaxMonster/Pronunciation]] may be of some interest. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 03:00, 19 February 2017 (UTC)
::If support rises for doing such a thing, I'd be willing to help with it as well. Given that there are a few official sources out there (as shown on the page you linked), I think it could be added without much trouble. --[[User:Felthry|Felthry]] ([[User talk:Felthry|talk]]) 04:06, 21 February 2017 (UTC)

== The Tapu ==

I asked SnorlaxMonster about this about a week and a half ago, and did not get a response.

Here's what I sent him:

"A few things about the Tapu/Guardian Deities/Land Spirits:

1. We really should come up with a consensus on whether we move Guardian Deities to Tapu or not. Personally, I think we should, because "Tapu" is used frequently in game AND is used frequently by the fans.

2. We should add the Tapu (and the UBs and Type:Null/Silvally, for the matter) to the Legendary and Mythical Pokémon template. We know that all of those Pokémon are either Legendary or Mythical, and the template does not differentiate between the two."

What do yoy think? --[[User:Celadonkey|Celad]][[User_talk:Celadonkey|onkey]] 01:28, 21 February 2017 (UTC)
:My opinion is that "tapu" is fairly informal. Guardian deity is an explicit description of their role and better IMO. Regardless, it's very much a matter for the {{bp|Editorial Board}}. No offense, but even if think you've reached a consensus, that doesn't make it okay to move the page. Moves, merges, deletes, and other such proposals are to be decided by the Editorial Board; if you're feeling antsy, ask someone on staff about it. (However, these things generally move rather slowly as well here. Like, slower than you think if you haven't really run into this issue before.)
:I do see the point, but the voice of doubt in me says it'd still be great if we knew exactly ''what'' the speculative Legendaries are for sure. I'll try to bring it up and see if there's any real hesitancy overall among staff about that. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 01:45, 21 February 2017 (UTC)

Peeko

2017-02-20T14:12:52Z

Felthry: /* In the games */ sup template, removing duplicated "grunt"

{{AnimePokémonInfobox
|nickname=Peeko
|jnickname=ピーコちゃん
|tmnickname=Peeko-chan
|image=[[File:Peeko.png|200px]]
|caption=Peeko in the anime
|location=[[Hoenn]]
|gender=Female
|ability={{a|Keen Eye}}{{tt|*|Confirmed in Pokémon Adventures only}}
|type1=Water
|type2=Flying
|pokemonname=Wingull
|epnum=AG018
|epname=On a Wingull and a Prayer!
|prevonum=278
|current=With [[Mr. Briney]]
|enva1=[[Kayzie Rogers]]
|java1=[[Chinami Nishimura]]
}}
'''Peeko''' (Japanese: '''ピーコちゃん''' ''Peeko-chan'') is a female {{p|Wingull}} owned by [[Mr. Briney]]. She appears in [[Pokémon Ruby and Sapphire Versions|Ruby, Sapphire]], [[Pokémon Emerald Version|Emerald]], [[Pokémon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire|Omega Ruby, and Alpha Sapphire]] as well as in the {{pkmn|manga}} and in the {{pkmn|anime}}.

==In the games==
Peeko is kidnapped by a {{tc|Team Magma Grunt}}{{sup/3|R}}{{sup/6|OR}}/{{tc|Team Aqua Grunt}}{{sup/3|S}}{{sup/3|E}}{{sup/6|AS}} and taken to [[Rusturf Tunnel]]. The player follows and defeats the grunt to rescue her. After she is rescued and returned to Mr. Briney, he will return to his cottage and later offer to sail the player to [[Dewford Town]] and [[Slateport City]].

She is referred to by Mr. Briney as "darling", journeying the sea alongside him.

==In the anime==
[[File:Briney and Peeko.png|thumb|200px|Mr. Briney and Peeko]]
===History===
[[Mr. Briney]] met Peeko one day while he was fishing and she flew down and landed on his head.

Peeko first appeared in ''[[AG018|On a Wingull and a Prayer!]]'' when {{an|May}} asked him for a way to get to Dewford Town as {{Ash}} and {{ashfr}} were lost. May noticed Peeko and was willing to interact with her, only for Peeko to shy away from her due to the fact that she only trusts Mr. Briney. This changed when May brought out Pokémon food. Later, she was kidnapped by a {{tc|Team Aqua Grunt}} who was in disguise as a Devon Corporation worker earlier to force Mr. Briney to give him a boat to meet his partners. When the Grunt was about to get away on Mr. Briney's boat with Peeko, {{TRT}} interfered using their mecha to steal both Peeko and [[Ash's Pikachu]]. This was interrupted by [[Brock's Lotad]]'s {{m|Water Gun}} which stopped the mecha. With Peeko still trapped in the cage, the Team Aqua Grunt took her and drove away on Mr. Briney's boat. However, Mr. Briney had a Wingull-shaped boat ready which was modeled after his Peeko. He took Ash and the others, and they chased down the Team Aqua Grunt. The two boats raced around until Mr. Briney had his boat jump up to block the boat the Grunt was riding on. With the Grunt stopped, Peeko ended up being returned to Mr. Briney. This did not stop the Grunt as he ended up escaping on Team Aqua's submarine. With the Grunt gone, Peeko and Mr. Briney were reunited.

Peeko appeared in ''[[AG019|Sharpedo Attack!]]'' where she was sitting on Mr. Briney's shoulder during the boat ride to Dewford Town. Along the way, they encountered some {{p|Sharpedo}} when May and [[Max]] were swimming. Mr. Briney had Peeko fly to where the two were and they got picked up by her. However, {{AP|Taillow}} had to help out since Peeko's strength wasn't enough. Later, when the group docked on an island, Peeko participated in luring the leader of the Sharpedo by serving as some sort of transportation while Ash got the leader's attention. The leader came in and closed the area off, trapping the Sharpedo leader. After clearing the Sharpedo problem and taking the group to Dewford Town, Peeko was last seen waving goodbye to them while she and Mr. Briney set sail back to their hometown.

===Personality and characteristics===
Peeko was only close to Mr. Briney as seen when May tried interacting with her only for Peeko to hide behind Mr. Briney. Also, Mr. Briney is the same about Peeko. He even modeled a ship after her. He really cares for her as seen when she was kidnapped by a Team Aqua Grunt, he sailed on his boat that was the shape of a Wingull and chased the Grunt.

==In the manga==
[[File:Peeko Adventures.png|left|thumb|159px|Peeko in the {{chap|Ruby & Sapphire|fourth chapter}}]]
[[File:Briney and Peeko Adventures.png|thumb|200px|Mr. Briney and Peeko in Pokémon Adventures]]
===In the Pokémon Adventures manga===
Like in other game-based adaptations, Peeko appears as a dainty Wingull that belongs to the old fisherman Briney. She first appears in ''[[PS190|Blowing Past Nosepass I]]'' where she found {{adv|Ruby}} caught in the old man's fish nets, and Briney endears her greatly, calling her "Peeko-poo." In ''[[PS192|Stick This in Your Craw, Crawdaunt I]]'', Ruby was officially introduced to Mr. Briney and Peeko.
[[File:Peeko Pelipper Adventures.png|thumb|160px|As a {{p|Pelipper}} in the {{chap|Omega Ruby & Alpha Sapphire|thirteenth chapter}}]]
The rescue was then revealed to him. In the [[PS193|next chapter]], after a {{p|Crawdaunt}} attacked their ship, Peeko distracted the Crawdaunt by attacking it when Ruby was trying to save Mr. Briney. However, Peeko ended up getting a broken beak as she charged straight into Crawdaunt's armored exoskeleton. This was when Crawdaunt's {{a|Shell Armor}} Ability activated, which prevented it from getting hurt by Peeko's attacks. Ruby ended up nursing her beak and healed her wound (he also adorned her with his "brand" of fashionable make-up). When Mr. Briney dropped off Ruby at his destination and met up with Sapphire, Peeko sailed away along with Mr. Briney.

Peeko was revealed to have evolved into a Pelipper sometime prior to ''[[PS294|Mewtwo and Mew Too]]'' when he was already promoted to captain and contacted [[Ultima]], his old friend regarding {{p|Mew}} at Faraway Island.

Peeko was seen in ''[[PS317|Sneaky Like Shedinja]]'' where she is still shown hovering around her owner.

Peeko appeared again in the {{chap|Omega Ruby & Alpha Sapphire}} with Mr. Briney on the [[S.S. Tidal]].

====Moves used====
{{anmov/h|water|flying|Peeko {{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 2}}|0=Quick Attack|1=Pelipper Soak}} Adventures.png|Using {{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 2}}|0=Quick Attack as a Wingull|1=Soak}}}}
{{anmov|normal|Quick Attack|PS193|Stick This in Your Craw, Crawdaunt II}}
{{anmov|water|Soak|PAORAS09}}
{{anmov/f|flying}}
{{-}}

===In the Pokémon Ruby-Sapphire manga===
[[File:Peeko PMRS.png|thumb|200px|Peeko in Pokémon Ruby-Sapphire]]
[[File:Briney and Peeko PMRS.png|thumb|left|200px|Mr. Briney and Peeko]]

Peeko makes an appearance in ''[[PMRS10|We've Found Team Magma's Secret!!]]''. Peeko is Mr. Briney's best friend, and accompanies him everywhere.

When at a restaurant, {{OBP|Red|Pocket Monsters}} wonders if Mr. Briney was going to eat his meal, which appeared in the shape of a bird. Mr. Briney reveals to the group that it was actually his compainion, Peeko, and that he simply enjoyed dressing her up. Afterwards, Peeko becomes affectionate towards {{TP|Red|Clefairy}}, often hugging him, much to his displeasure.

Mr. Briney refused to give Peeko to [[Team Magma]] and [[Maxie]] after they demanded her from him. They play "tug-of-war" with Clefairy, using Peeko as the rope. Mr. Briney stops the game and rescues Peeko, giving her the option to fly away. Team Magma and Clefairy chase after her, with Clefairy using a hot-air balloon as means of flight transportation. The balloon lands on Peeko, who flies away from it, revealing that she neither wanted to be with Team Magma nor Clefairy.
{{left clear}}

==Trivia==
* Peeko and [[Mr. Briney]] are featured in one of the paintings on display in [[Lumiose Museum]] in [[Pokémon X and Y]].

==Names==
{{langtable|color={{water color light}}|bordercolor={{flying color dark}}
|zh_yue=小皮 ''Síupèih''
|zh_cmn=小皮 ''Xiǎopí'' {{tt|*|Anime & Manga (Mainland China)}} 小嗶 ''Xiǎobì'' {{tt|*|Manga (Taiwan)}}
|fr=Piko
|de=Pecko
|it=Peeko
|ko=피코 ''Piko''
|es=Peeko
|vi=Peeko
}}

==Related articles==
{{Animespeciesevo1|Wingull|Pelipper}}

{{-}}
{{Project CharacterDex notice}}

[[Category:Pokémon characters]]
[[Category:Anime characters (Pokémon)]]
[[Category:Game characters]]
[[Category:Manga characters]]
[[Category:Ruby and Sapphire characters]]
[[Category:Emerald characters]]
[[Category:Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire characters]]
[[Category:Pokémon Adventures characters]]
[[Category:Pokémon Ruby-Sapphire characters]]

[[it:Peeko]]
[[ja:ピーコちゃん]]
[[zh:哈奇老人的小皮]]

Battle item

2017-02-15T15:02:01Z

Felthry: /* Effect */ Wonder launcher doesn't exist outside of gen 5

{{incomplete|2=Missing other languages section and manga section with its appearance in [[PAORAS21]]}}
A '''battle item''' (Japanese: '''{{tt|戦闘用|せんとうよう}}''' ''Battle use item'') is, as its name implies, an [[item]] given to a {{OBP|Pokémon|species}} during {{pkmn|battle}} to enhance its [[stats]]. Like the stat-raising effects of moves like {{m|Howl}} and {{m|Agility}}, the stat rise is only temporary. These items cannot be used on a Pokémon if the specific stat is already raised by six levels.

==Effect==
There are two distinct types of battle items. The basic battle items introduced in [[Generation I]] each raise a particular stat by two [[Statistic#Stat modifiers|stages]] (one stage prior to Generation VII), with the exception of [[#Guard Spec.|Guard Spec.]] which protects the party from stat reductions for five turns.

A second type of battle item was unique to [[Generation V]], and can only be used in multiplayer battles via the [[Wonder Launcher]]. Many of these items are more powerful versions of the basic battle items, raising a particular stat by 2, 3, or 6 levels, while others have an effect on the ally of the Pokémon during whose turn the items are used.

==Types of battle items==
{{Item
|name=X Attack
|jp=プラスパワー
|jpt=Plus Power
|gen=I
|bag=Items
|buyable=yes
|sell=250
|effect=Raises the {{stat|Attack}} of a Pokémon currently in battle by 1 level[[Generation I|Gen I]]-{{gen|VI}}/2 levels{{sup/7|SM}}.
|descstad=Temporarily increases <sc>Attack</sc> power for one battle.
|descgsc=Raises <sc>Attack</sc>. (1 BTL)
|descrse=Raises the stat <sc>Attack</sc> during one battle.
|descfrlg=Raises the Attack stat of <sc>Pok</sc>é<sc>mon</sc> in battle. Wears off if the <sc>Pok</sc>é<sc>mon</sc> is withdrawn.
|desccoloxd=Raises the stat <sc>Attack</sc> during one battle.
|descdppthgss=An item that raises the Attack stat of a Pokémon in battle. It wears off if the Pokémon is withdrawn.
|descbwb2w2=An item that raises the Attack stat of a Pokémon in battle. It wears off if the Pokémon is withdrawn.
|descxyoras=An item that boosts the Attack stat of a Pokémon during a battle. It wears off once the Pokémon is withdrawn.
|descsm=An item that sharply boosts the Attack stat of a Pokémon during a battle. It wears off once the Pokémon is withdrawn.
|locrby=[[Celadon Department Store]]
|locgsc={{ci|Violet}}, {{ci|Blackthorn}}, {{ci|Cerulean}}, {{ci|Saffron}} [[Poké Mart]]s, [[Goldenrod Department Store|Goldenrod]] and [[Celadon Department Store|Celadon]] Department Stores
|locrse={{ci|Petalburg}}, {{ci|Rustboro}}, {{ci|Mauville}}, {{to|Fallarbor}}, {{ci|Mossdeep}}, {{ci|Sootopolis}} [[Poké Mart]]s, [[Lilycove Department Store]]
|locfrlg=[[Celadon Department Store]]
|loccolo=[[Phenac City]]
|locxd=[[Pyrite Town]]
|locdppt=[[Veilstone Department Store]]
|lochgss=[[Goldenrod Department Store]], [[Celadon Department Store]], {{pw|Suburban Area}}, {{pw|Town Outskirts}}
|locbw=[[Nacrene City]], [[Nimbasa City]], [[Shopping Mall Nine]]
|locb2w2=[[Shopping Mall Nine]], [[Join Avenue]] ({{DL|Join Avenue|Market}})
|locxy=[[Santalune City]] [[Poké Mart]] and {{DL|Santalune City|Trainers' School}}, {{kal|Victory Road}}, [[Terminus Cave]], [[Ambrette Town]], {{rt|5|Kalos}}, [[Camphrier Town]]
|locoras=[[Lilycove Department Store]] (Level 3)
|locsm=[[Hau'oli City]] [[Poké Mart]]
|tcg=PlusPower (Base Set 84)
}}

{{anchor|X Defend}}{{Item
|name=X Defense
|jp=ディフェンダー
|jpt=Defender
|gen=I
|bag=Items
|buyable=yes
|sell=275
|effect=Raises the {{stat|Defense}} of a Pokémon currently in battle by 1 level[[Generation I|Gen I]]-{{gen|VI}}/2 levels{{sup/7|SM}}.
|descstad=Temporarily increases <sc>Defense</sc> for one battle.
|descgsc=Raises <sc>Defense</sc>. (1 BTL)
|descrse=Raises the stat <sc>Defense</sc> during one battle.
|descfrlg=Raises the <sc>Defense</sc> stat of <sc>Pok</sc>é<sc>mon</sc> in battle. Wears off if the <sc>Pok</sc>é<sc>mon</sc> is withdrawn.
|desccoloxd=Raises the stat <sc>Defense</sc> during one battle.
|descdppthgss=An item that raises the Defense stat of a Pokémon in battle. It wears off if the Pokémon is withdrawn.
|descbwb2w2=An item that raises the Defense stat of a Pokémon in battle. It wears off if the Pokémon is withdrawn.
|descxyoras=An item that boosts the Defense stat of a Pokémon during a battle. It wears off once the Pokémon is withdrawn.
|descsm=An item that sharply boosts the Defense stat of a Pokémon during a battle. It wears off once the Pokémon is withdrawn.
|locrby=[[Celadon Department Store]]
|locgsc={{ci|Violet}}, {{ci|Blackthorn}}, {{ci|Cerulean}}, {{ci|Saffron}} [[Poké Mart]]s, [[Goldenrod Department Store|Goldenrod]] and [[Celadon Department Store|Celadon]] Department Stores
|locrse={{ci|Petalburg}}, {{ci|Rustboro}}, {{ci|Mauville}}, {{to|Fallarbor}}, {{ci|Mossdeep}}, {{ci|Sootopolis}} [[Poké Mart]]s, [[Lilycove Department Store]]
|locfrlg=[[Celadon Department Store]]
|loccolo=[[Phenac City]]
|locxd=[[Pyrite Town]]
|locdppt=[[Veilstone Department Store]]
|lochgss=[[Goldenrod Department Store]], [[Celadon Department Store]], {{pw|Suburban Area}}, {{pw|Icy Mountain Rd.}}
|locbw=[[Nacrene City]], [[Dreamyard]], [[Shopping Mall Nine]]
|locb2w2=[[Aspertia Gym]], [[Shopping Mall Nine]], [[Join Avenue]] ({{DL|Join Avenue|Market}})
|locxy=[[Santalune City]] [[Poké Mart]] and {{DL|Santalune City|Trainers' School}}, [[Cyllage City]], {{kal|Victory Road}}, {{rt|15|Kalos}}, {{rt|9|Kalos}}, {{rt|18|Kalos}}
|locoras=[[Lilycove Department Store]] (Level 3)
|locsm=[[Hau'oli City]] [[Poké Mart]]
|tcg=Defender (Base Set 80)
|notes=Called X Defend prior to Generation VI
}}

{{anchor|X Special}}{{Item
|name=X Sp. Atk
|jp=スペシャルアップ
|jpt=Special Up
|gen=I
|bag=Items
|buyable=yes
|sell=175
|effect=Raises the {{stat|Special Attack}} of a Pokémon currently in battle by 1 level[[Generation II|Gen II]]-{{gen|VI}}/2 levels{{sup/7|SM}}. Raises the {{stat|Special}} of a Pokémon currently in battle by 1 level.{{sup/1|RBY}}
|descstad=Temporarily increases <sc>Special</sc> for one battle.
|descgs=Raises <sc>Special</sc> stats. (1 BTL)
|descc=Raises <sc>Special Attack</sc>. (1 BTL)
|descrse=Raises the stat <sc>Sp.Atk</sc> during one battle.
|descfrlg=Raises the <sc>Sp.Atk</sc> stat of <sc>Pok</sc>é<sc>mon</sc> in battle. Wears off if the <sc>Pok</sc>é<sc>mon</sc> is withdrawn.
|desccoloxd=Raises the stat <sc>Sp.Atk</sc> during one battle.
|descdppthgss=An item that raises the Sp. Atk stat of a Pokémon in battle. It wears off if the Pokémon is withdrawn.
|descbwb2w2=An item that raises the Sp. Atk stat of a Pokémon in battle. It wears off if the Pokémon is withdrawn.
|descxyoras=An item that boosts the Sp. Atk stat of a Pokémon during a battle. It wears off once the Pokémon is withdrawn.
|descsm=An item that sharply boosts the Sp. Atk stat of a Pokémon during a battle. It wears off once the Pokémon is withdrawn.
|locrby=[[Celadon Department Store]]
|locgsc=[[Goldenrod Department Store]], [[Celadon Department Store]]
|locrse={{to|Verdanturf}} [[Poké Mart]], [[Lilycove Department Store]]
|locfrlg=[[Celadon Department Store]]
|loccolo=[[Phenac City]]
|locxd=[[Pyrite Town]]
|locdppt=[[Veilstone Department Store]]
|lochgss=[[Goldenrod Department Store]], [[Celadon Department Store]], {{pw|Suburban Area}}
|locbw=[[Nacrene City]], [[Shopping Mall Nine]]
|locb2w2=[[Castelia Sewers]], [[Shopping Mall Nine]], [[Join Avenue]] ({{DL|Join Avenue|Market}})
|locxy=[[Santalune City]] [[Poké Mart]], [[Cyllage City]], [[Snowbelle City]], [[Shalour City]], [[Parfum Palace]]
|locoras=[[Lilycove Department Store]] (Level 3)
|locsm=[[Hau'oli City]] [[Poké Mart]]
|notes=Called X Special prior to Generation VI
}}

{{Item
|name=X Sp. Def
|jp=スペシャルガード
|jpt=Special Guard
|gen=IV
|bag=Items
|buyable=yes
|sell=175
|buy=350
|effect=Raises the {{stat|Special Defense}} of a Pokémon currently in battle by 1 level[[Generation IV|Gen IV]]-{{gen|VI}}/2 levels{{sup/7|SM}}.
|descdppthgss=An item that raises the Sp. Def stat of a Pokémon in battle. It wears off if the Pokémon is withdrawn.
|descbwb2w2=An item that raises the Sp. Def stat of a Pokémon in battle. It wears off if the Pokémon is withdrawn.
|descxyoras=An item that boosts the Sp. Def stat of a Pokémon during a battle. It wears off once the Pokémon is withdrawn.
|descsm=An item that sharply boosts the Sp. Def stat of a Pokémon during a battle. It wears off once the Pokémon is withdrawn.
|locdppt=[[Veilstone Department Store]]
|lochgss=[[Goldenrod Department Store]], [[Celadon Department Store]], {{pw|Suburban Area}}, {{pw|Town Outskirts}}
|locbw=[[Nacrene City]], [[Shopping Mall Nine]]
|locb2w2=[[Shopping Mall Nine]], [[Join Avenue]] ({{DL|Join Avenue|Market}})
|locxy=[[Santalune City]] [[Poké Mart]], {{rt|7|Kalos}}, [[Frost Cavern]]
|locoras=[[Lilycove Department Store]] (Level 3)
|locsm=[[Hau'oli City]] [[Poké Mart]]
}}

{{Item
|name=X Speed
|jp=スピーダー
|jpt=Speeder
|gen=I
|bag=Items
|buyable=yes
|sell=175
|effect=Raises the {{stat|Speed}} of a Pokémon currently in battle by 1 level[[Generation I|Gen I]]-{{gen|VI}}/2 levels{{sup/7|SM}}.
|descstad=Temporarily increases <sc>Speed</sc> for one battle.
|descgsc=Raises <sc>Speed</sc>. (1 BTL)
|descrse=Raises the stat <sc>Speed</sc> one battle.
|descfrlg=Raises the <sc>Speed</sc> stat of <sc>Pok</sc>é<sc>mon</sc> in battle. Wears off if the <sc>Pok</sc>é<sc>mon</sc> is withdrawn.
|desccoloxd=Raises the stat <sc>Speed</sc> during one battle.
|descdppthgss=An item that raises the Speed stat of a Pokémon in battle. It wears off if the Pokémon is withdrawn.
|descbwb2w2=An item that raises the Speed stat of a Pokémon in battle. It wears off if the Pokémon is withdrawn.
|descxyoras=An item that boosts the Speed stat of a Pokémon during a battle. It wears off once the Pokémon is withdrawn.
|descsm=An item that sharply boosts the Speed stat of a Pokémon during a battle. It wears off once the Pokémon is withdrawn.
|locrby=[[Celadon Department Store]]
|locgsc={{ci|Violet}} [[Poké Mart]], [[Goldenrod Department Store]], [[Celadon Department Store]]
|locrse={{ci|Petalburg}}, {{ci|Rustboro}}, {{ci|Mauville}}, {{to|Fallarbor}} [[Poké Mart]]s, [[Lilycove Department Store]]
|locfrlg=[[Celadon Department Store]]
|loccolo=[[Phenac City]]
|locxd=[[Pyrite Town]]
|locdppt=[[Veilstone Department Store]]
|lochgss=[[Goldenrod Department Store]], [[Celadon Department Store]], {{pw|Suburban Area}}
|locbw=[[Nacrene City]], [[Shopping Mall Nine]]
|locb2w2=[[Shopping Mall Nine]], [[Join Avenue]] ({{DL|Join Avenue|Market}})
|locxy=[[Santalune City]] [[Poké Mart]], [[Cyllage City]], [[Dendemille Town]], {{rt|6|Kalos}}
|locoras=[[Lilycove Department Store]] (Level 3)
|locsm=[[Hau'oli City]] [[Poké Mart]]
}}

{{Item
|name=X Accuracy
|jp=ヨクアタール
|jpt=Hits Well
|gen=I
|bag=Items
|buyable=yes
|sell=475
|buy=950
|effect=Pokémon's moves ignore accuracy checks. [[Generation I|Gen I]]-{{gen|II}} Raises the {{stat|accuracy}} of a Pokémon currently in battle by 1 level[[Generation III|Gen III]]-{{gen|VI}}/2 levels{{sup/7|SM}}.
|descstad=Temporarily heightens accuracy for one battle.
|descgsc=Raises accuracy. (1 BTL)
|descrse=Raises accuracy of attack moves during one battle.
|descfrlg=Raises the accuracy stat of <sc>Pok</sc>é<sc>mon</sc> in battle. Wears off if the <sc>Pok</sc>é<sc>mon</sc> is withdrawn.
|desccoloxd=Raises accuracy of attack moves during one battle.
|descdppthgss=An item that raises the accuracy of a Pokémon in battle. It wears off if the Pokémon is withdrawn.
|descbwb2w2=An item that raises the accuracy of a Pokémon in battle. It wears off if the Pokémon is withdrawn.
|descxyoras=An item that boosts the accuracy of a Pokémon during a battle. It wears off once the Pokémon is withdrawn.
|descsm=An item that sharply boosts the accuracy of a Pokémon during a battle. It wears off once the Pokémon is withdrawn.
|locrby=[[Celadon Department Store]]
|locgsc=[[Goldenrod Department Store]], [[Celadon Department Store]]
|locrse={{ci|Mauville}} [[Poké Mart]], [[Lilycove Department Store]]
|locfrlg=[[Celadon Department Store]]
|loccolo=[[Phenac City]]
|locxd=[[Pyrite Town]]
|locdppt=[[Veilstone Department Store]]
|lochgss=[[Goldenrod Department Store]], [[Celadon Department Store]], {{pw|Suburban Area}}, {{pw|Town Outskirts}}
|locbw=[[Nacrene City]], {{rt|4|Unova}}, [[Shopping Mall Nine]]
|locb2w2=[[Shopping Mall Nine]], [[Join Avenue]] ({{DL|Join Avenue|Market}})
|locxy=[[Santalune City]] [[Poké Mart]], {{rt|13|Kalos}}, {{rt|10|Kalos}}, {{rt|20|Kalos}}
|locoras=[[Lilycove Department Store]] (Level 3)
|locsm=[[Hau'oli City]] [[Poké Mart]]
}}

{{Item
|name=Dire Hit
|jp={{tt|クリティカット|クリティカッター prior to Generation V}}
|jpt={{tt|Criticut|Criticutter prior to Generation V}}
|gen=I
|bag=Items
|buyable=yes
|sell=325
|notes=Prior to Generation V, its Japanese name was クリティカッター ''Criticutter''
|effect=Raises the [[critical hit]] ratio of a Pokémon currently in battle by 1 level. Does not stack with itself or {{m|Focus Energy}}. In Generation I, due to a glitch, it quarters the Pokémon's chance of getting a critical hit. Does not stack with itself or {{m|Focus Energy}}.
|descstad=Temporarily heightens the probability of scoring critical hits in one battle.
|descgsc=Ups critical hit ratio. (1 BTL)
|descrse=Raises the critical-hit ratio during one battle.
|descfrlg=Raises the critical-hit ratio of <sc>Pok</sc>é<sc>mon</sc> in battle. Wears off if the <sc>Pok</sc>é<sc>mon</sc> is withdrawn.
|desccoloxd=Raises the critical-hit ratio during one battle.
|descdppthgss=An item that raises the critical-hit ratio of a Pokémon in battle. It wears off if the Pokémon is withdrawn.
|descbwb2w2=It raises the critical-hit ratio greatly. It can be used only once and wears off if the Pokémon is withdrawn.
|descxyoras=An item that raises the critical-hit ratio greatly. It can be used only once and wears off if the Pokémon is withdrawn.
|descsm=An item that raises the critical-hit ratio greatly. It can be used only once and wears off if the Pokémon is withdrawn.
|locrby=[[Celadon Department Store]]
|locgsc={{ci|Cerulean}} [[Poké Mart]], [[Goldenrod Department Store]], [[Celadon Department Store]]
|locrse={{ci|Mauville}} and {{to|Fallarbor}} [[Poké Mart]]s, [[Lilycove Department Store]]
|locfrlg=[[Celadon Department Store]]
|loccolo=[[Phenac City]]
|locxd=[[Pyrite Town]]
|locdppt=[[Veilstone Department Store]]
|lochgss=[[Goldenrod Department Store]], [[Celadon Department Store]], {{pw|Suburban Area}}, {{pw|Town Outskirts}}
|locbw=[[Nacrene City]], [[Shopping Mall Nine]]
|locb2w2=[[Shopping Mall Nine]], [[Join Avenue]] ({{DL|Join Avenue|Market}}, {{DL|Join Avenue|Souvenirs|souvenir}})
|locxy=[[Santalune City]] [[Poké Mart]], [[Frost Cavern]], [[Terminus Cave]], {{rt|15|Kalos}}
|locoras=[[Lilycove Department Store]] (Level 3)
|locsm=[[Hau'oli City]] [[Poké Mart]]
}}

{{Item
|name=Guard Spec.
|jp=エフェクトガード
|jpt=Effect Guard
|gen=I
|bag=Items
|buyable=yes
|sell=350
|effect=Prevents [[stats|stat]] reduction by opponents' moves for the user's [[party]] for five turns.
|descstad=Temporarily heightens defense against special attacks for one battle.
|descgs=Prevents stat reduction. (1 BTL)
|descc=Prevents stats reduction. (1 BTL)
|descrse=Prevents stat reduction when used in battle.
|descfrlg=An item that prevents stat reduction among party <sc>Pok</sc>é<sc>mon</sc> for five turns after use.
|desccoloxd=Prevents stat reduction when used in battle.
|descdppthgss=An item that prevents stat reduction among the Trainer's party Pokémon for five turns after use.
|descbwb2w2=An item that prevents stat reduction among the Trainer's party Pokémon for five turns after use.
|descxyoras=An item that prevents stat reduction among the Trainer's party Pokémon for five turns after it is used in battle.
|descsm=An item that prevents stat reduction among the Trainer's party Pokémon for five turns after it is used in battle.
|locrby=[[Celadon Department Store]]
|locgsc=[[Goldenrod Department Store]], [[Celadon Department Store]]
|locrse={{ci|Mauville}} and {{to|Fallarbor}} [[Poké Mart]]s, [[Lilycove Department Store]]
|locfrlg=[[Celadon Department Store]]
|loccolo=[[Phenac City]]
|locxd=[[Pyrite Town]]
|locdppt=[[Veilstone Department Store]]
|lochgss=[[Goldenrod Department Store]], [[Celadon Department Store]], {{pw|Suburban Area}}, {{pw|Town Outskirts}}
|locbw=[[Nacrene City]], [[Shopping Mall Nine]]
|locb2w2=[[Shopping Mall Nine]], [[Join Avenue]] ({{DL|Join Avenue|Market}}, {{DL|Join Avenue|Souvenirs|souvenir}})
|locxy=[[Santalune City]] [[Poké Mart]], [[Parfum Palace]], {{rt|13|Kalos}}, {{rt|21|Kalos}}
|locoras=[[Lilycove Department Store]] (Level 3)
|locsm=[[Hau'oli City]] [[Poké Mart]]
|tcg=Guard Spec. (Vending S2)
}}

===Wonder Launcher items===
{{main|Wonder Launcher#Wonder Launcher items|Wonder Launcher}}

==Artwork==
These are artwork of the items as seen in the [[Pokémon Dream World]].
{| class="roundy" style="margin:auto; text-align:center; background: #{{black color dark}}; border: 5px solid #{{black color}}"
|-
| width="160px" style="background: #{{attack color}}; {{roundytop|5px}}" | [[File:Dream X Attack Sprite.png]]
| width="160px" style="background: #{{defense color}}; {{roundytop|5px}}" | [[File:Dream X Defend Sprite.png]]
| width="160px" style="background: #{{special attack color}}; {{roundytop|5px}}" | [[File:Dream X Special Sprite.png]]
| width="160px" style="background: #{{special defense color}}; {{roundytop|5px}}" | [[File:Dream X Sp. Def Sprite.png]]
|-
| style="background: #{{attack color light}}; {{roundybottom|5px}}" | {{color|{{attack color dark}}|X Attack}}
| style="background: #{{defense color light}}; {{roundybottom|5px}}" | {{color|{{defense color dark}}|X Defense}}
| style="background: #{{special attack color light}}; {{roundybottom|5px}}" | {{color|{{special attack color dark}}|X Sp. Atk}}
| style="background: #{{special defense color light}}; {{roundybottom|5px}}" | {{color|{{special defense color dark}}|X Sp. Def}}
|-
| width="160px" style="background: #{{speed color}}; {{roundytop|5px}}" | [[File:Dream X Speed Sprite.png]]
| width="160px" style="background: #58f8f6; {{roundytop|5px}}" | [[File:Dream X Accuracy Sprite.png]]
| width="160px" style="background: #{{fighting color}}; {{roundytop|5px}}" | [[File:Dream Dire Hit Sprite.png]]
| width="160px" style="background: #{{ice color}}; {{roundytop|5px}}" | [[File:Dream Guard Spec. Sprite.png]]
|-
| style="background: #{{speed color light}}; {{roundybottom|5px}}" | {{color|{{speed color dark}}|X Speed}}
| style="background: #aefffe; {{roundybottom|5px}}" | {{color|2a6f6e|X Accuracy}}
| style="background: #{{fighting color light}}; {{roundybottom|5px}}" | {{color|{{fighting color dark}}|Dire Hit}}
| style="background: #{{ice color light}}; {{roundybottom|5px}}" | {{color|{{ice color dark}}|Guard Spec.}}
|}{{-}}

==In the spin-off games==
{{incomplete|section}}
===[[Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS/Wii U]]===
X Attack, X Defense, and X Speed appear in Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS/Wii U as {{sbw|equipment}} that any of the five playable Pokémon can use. Each raises its respective stat while lowering another. While they will occasionally come with a special effect, the ones without effects come in three rarities: normal, Threefold, and Sixfold.

==={{g|Rumble World}}===
After rescuing a distressed Mii in an area, he or she will occasionally use X Attacks, X Defenses, X Speeds, or [[potion]]s. What they give out is chosen randomly upon being rescued. The X items boost the specified stat for some time.

==In the anime==
[[File:Wonder Launcher X Attack anime.png|left|thumb|200px|A Wonder Launcher X Attack in the anime]]
[[File:Wonder Launcher X Speed anime.png|thumb|200px|A Wonder Launcher X Speed in the anime]]
In ''[[BW038|Movie Time! Zorua in "The Legend of the Pokémon Knight"!]]'' two [[Wonder Launcher]] battle items appeared as part of a movie named ''{{DL|Movies in the Pokémon world|Wonder Fighters the Movie Part 24: The Mystery of the Wonder Launcher}}''. In the clip in the advertisement {{Ash}}, {{an|Iris}}, and {{an|Cilan}} saw, two Trainers battled using a {{p|Golurk}} and an {{p|Escavalier}} and used the Wonder Launchers to power up their Pokémon. The Wonder Fighter used an X Attack on her {{p|Golurk}}, while her opponent used an X Speed on his {{p|Escavalier}}.
{{-}}

==In the TCG==
The following is a list of cards featuring battle items. The English language release of the X Attack and X Defend use direct translations of their Japanese names, '''PlusPower''' and '''Defender''', respectively.

{{cardlist/header|Related cards|Item|char=yes}}
{{cardlist/entry|cardname={{TCG ID|Base Set|PlusPower|84}}|type=Item|enset=Base Set|enrarity=Uncommon|ennum=84/102|jpsetlink=Neo Destiny|jpset=Expansion Pack|jprarity=Uncommon|enset2=Base Set 2|enrarity2=Uncommon|ennum2=113/130|enset3=Diamond & Pearl|enrarity3=Uncommon|ennum3=109/130|jpsetlink3=Diamond & Pearl|jpset3=Space-Time Creation|jprarity3=Uncommon|enset4=Secret Wonders|enrarity4=Uncommon|ennum4=121/132|jpset4=Dialga LV.X Constructed Standard Deck|jpset5=Palkia LV.X Constructed Standard Deck|jpsetlink6=Magmortar vs Electivire Deck Kit|jpset6=Magmortar Half Deck|jpsetlink7=Magmortar vs Electivire Deck Kit|jpset7=Electivire Half Deck|jpsetlink8=Entry Pack '08|jpset8=Infernape Half Deck|enset9=Platinum|enrarity9=Uncommon|ennum9=112/127|jpsetlink9=Entry Pack DPt|jpset9=Giratina Half Deck|jpsetnum9=010/013|enset10=Unleashed|enrarity10=Uncommon|ennum10=85/90|jpsetlink10=Battle Starter Decks|jpset10=Raichu Starter Deck|jpnum10=007/010|jpsetlink11=Undaunted|jpset11=Reviving Legends|jprarity11=Uncommon|jpnum11=072/080|enset12=Black & White|enrarity12=Uncommon|ennum12=96/114|jpsetlink12=Black & White|jpset12=White Collection|jpsetrarity12=Uncommon|jpnum12=051/053|jpset13=BW-P Promotional cards|jpnum13=082/BW-P|jpset14=Master Deck Build Box EX|jpnum14=032/046}}
{{cardlist/entry|cardname={{TCG ID|Base Set|Defender|80}}|type=Trainer|enset=Base Set|enrarity=Uncommon|ennum=80/102|jpsetlink=Neo Destiny|jpset=Expansion Pack|jprarity=Uncommon|enset2=Base Set 2|enrarity2=Uncommon|ennum2=109/130|jpsetlink3=Intro Pack Neo|jpset3=Totodile Half Deck|jpnum3=4|enset4=Undaunted|enrarity4=Uncommon|ennum4=72/90|jpsetlink4=Undaunted|jpset4=Reviving Legends|jprarity4=Uncommon|jpnum4=070/080}}
{{cardlist/footer|Item}}

==In the TFG==
The following is a list of cards named '''X Attack''', '''X Special''', or '''X Accuracy'''.
{| class="roundy" style="width:auto; text-align:center; background: #{{tcg Item color}}; border: 3px solid #{{tcg Item color light}};"
|-
!Name
!Type
!Rarity
!Set
!Set no.
|- style="background:#F8F8FF"
| rowspan=2 | {{TFG ID|Next Quest|X Accuracy|7}} ||rowspan=2| T || {{rar|Common}} || {{TFG|Next Quest}} || 7/8
|- style="background:#F8F8FF"
| ? || {{TFG|Groundbreakers}} || 6/8
|- style="background:#F8F8FF"
| rowspan=2 | {{TFG ID|Next Quest|X Attack|8}} ||rowspan=2| T || {{rar|Common}} || {{TFG|Next Quest}} || 8/8
|- style="background:#F8F8FF"
| {{rar|Common}} || {{TFG|Groundbreakers}} || 7/8
|- style="background:#F8F8FF"
| {{TFG ID|Groundbreakers|X Special|8}} || T || {{rar|Common}} || {{TFG|Groundbreakers}} || 8/8
|}

==Trivia==
* There is no battle item that boosts the {{stat|evasion}} stat.
* The Japanese name of X Accuracy, which would normally be written in hiragana as よくあたる ''yoku ataru'', is instead written in katakana with a long "a" (ヨクアタール ''yoku atāru).
* Some Gym Leaders in [[Generation I]], as well as Trainers at the [[Petalburg Gym]], use these items. Various Trainers in {{game|Platinum}} onwards (usually {{tc|School Kid}}s and {{tc|Scientist}}s) use them occasionally.
* In Black and White, the Japanese name of Dire Hit was changed to be one character shorter so as to fit the numbers used for its upgrade items in the [[Wonder Launcher]].
* Except for Dire Hit 3, the [[Bag]] descriptions for the different variations of each stat-boosting battle item are identical and do not specify to what degree they raise the corresponding stat (most likely because this is evident from their names).
* The Bag descriptions for Dire Hit 2 and Dire Hit 3 include the additional text "each use increases the effect", which is not present in the descriptions of the other stat-boosting Wonder Launcher items.
* There is no battle item that boosts the critical hit ratio by six levels; this is because critical hit ratio levels only go up to five.
* In {{game2|Red|Blue|Yellow}}, there is a [[Trainer Tips]] sign in [[Celadon City]] that states Guard Specs. decrease damage taken by Special attacks. This is incorrect, as Guard Specs. protect a Pokémon from having its stats lowered.

{{-}}
{{Items}} 
{{Project ItemDex notice}}

[[Category:Items]]

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Talk:????? (Crystal FE)

2017-02-15T00:29:35Z

Felthry: /* "101+" */ new section

== "101+" ==

In the learnset, several moves are listed as learned at level "101+". Is this due to missing information, or is the move learned at every level after 101, or something else? --[[User:Felthry|Felthry]] ([[User talk:Felthry|talk]]) 00:29, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

Light trio

2017-02-05T19:21:41Z

Felthry: Leftover from copying?

{{unknown name}}
{{incomplete|needs=Missing history and movesets}}
[[File:Solgaleo_Lunala_Durable_Play_Mat.jpg|200px|right|thumb|Solgaleo and Lunala on a TCG playmat]]
'''Cosmic duo''' is a fan term for the [[Legendary duo]] of [[Alola]] that consists of {{p|Solgaleo}} and {{p|Lunala}}. Solgaleo is an emissary of the sun known as the "beast that devours the sun". Lunala is an emissary of the moon known as the "beast that calls the moon". Both Pokémon evolve from {{p|Cosmoem}}, can create [[Ultra Wormhole]]s, and with the power of both Pokémon, can create {{p|Cosmog}}. They are also referred to as the '''Cosmog line'''.

{{duostats|alola|791|Solgaleo|sun|137|137|107|113|89|97|792|Lunala|moon|137|113|89|137|107|97}}