Bulbapedia - User contributions [en]

Talk:Impostor Professor Oak

2019-06-15T07:19:55Z

Ericss:

Force Fire‎ asked for a source about his planned game appearance, so [https://tcrf.net/Proto:Pok%C3%A9mon_Gold_and_Silver#Unused_Graphics here.] --[[User:Golden Trainer|Golden Trainer]] ([[User talk:Golden Trainer|talk]]) 04:15, 2 February 2019 (UTC)
:Most of the things on there seems to have been from the spaceworld demo leak, so that's gonna have to be placed on one of the userpages that have the spaceworld info.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 04:46, 2 February 2019 (UTC)
::I don't see what's the problem with briefly mentioning the origin of the character this article is about. Perhaps in Trivia rather than the opening paragraph, but it certainly belongs here, I would say. [[User:Ericss|Ericss]] ([[User talk:Ericss|talk]]) 15:44, 5 June 2019 (UTC)
::So, yeah. Unless someone has a compelling argument against it, I'm adding the following paragraph to Trivia: "Impostor Professor Oak was initially going to appear in [[Pokémon Gold and Silver]], as part of an early plot. He can be found as an NPC with his own overworld sprite in an early demo. However, changes to the story during the game's development resulted in his removal." [[User:Ericss|Ericss]] ([[User talk:Ericss|talk]]) 18:57, 14 June 2019 (UTC)
:::Unless you can prove that the information didn't come from the spaceworld leak, i.e. already known information prior to the leak, then no you may not add it.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 05:30, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
::::Um, what? The Spaceworld demo is a ''legit'' source. [[User:Ericss|Ericss]] ([[User talk:Ericss|talk]]) 07:19, 15 June 2019 (UTC)

Talk:Impostor Professor Oak

2019-06-15T07:19:43Z

Ericss:

Force Fire‎ asked for a source about his planned game appearance, so [https://tcrf.net/Proto:Pok%C3%A9mon_Gold_and_Silver#Unused_Graphics here.] --[[User:Golden Trainer|Golden Trainer]] ([[User talk:Golden Trainer|talk]]) 04:15, 2 February 2019 (UTC)
:Most of the things on there seems to have been from the spaceworld demo leak, so that's gonna have to be placed on one of the userpages that have the spaceworld info.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 04:46, 2 February 2019 (UTC)
::I don't see what's the problem with briefly mentioning the origin of the character this article is about. Perhaps in Trivia rather than the opening paragraph, but it certainly belongs here, I would say. [[User:Ericss|Ericss]] ([[User talk:Ericss|talk]]) 15:44, 5 June 2019 (UTC)
::So, yeah. Unless someone has a compelling argument against it, I'm adding the following paragraph to Trivia: "Impostor Professor Oak was initially going to appear in [[Pokémon Gold and Silver]], as part of an early plot. He can be found as an NPC with his own overworld sprite in an early demo. However, changes to the story during the game's development resulted in his removal." [[User:Ericss|Ericss]] ([[User talk:Ericss|talk]]) 18:57, 14 June 2019 (UTC)
:::Unless you can prove that the information didn't come from the spaceworld leak, i.e. already known information prior to the leak, then no you may not add it.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 05:30, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
::::Um, what? The Spaceworld is a ''legit'' source. [[User:Ericss|Ericss]] ([[User talk:Ericss|talk]]) 07:19, 15 June 2019 (UTC)

Talk:Impostor Professor Oak

2019-06-14T18:57:17Z

Ericss:

Talk:Impostor Professor Oak

2019-06-05T15:44:13Z

Ericss:

Talk:Pokémon Gold and Silver beta

2019-05-28T14:13:44Z

Ericss: /* Spaceworld Information */

Picture-heavy, no? [[User:Evkl|evkl]] 23:04, 18 November 2005 (CST)

We have a problem -- this article is almost a direct copy of this page here: [http://www.magicstone.de/dzd/game_analysis_gs-beta.php Pokémon Gold & Silver - Development Reconstruction]

argh. all the pictures are direct copies. Do we have permission?

Well. We can assume that given the kind of reaction I've received from the author of this article, that [[User:Celebi23]] and the author of that page are one and the same... But, seeing as [[:de:Pokémon Gold & Silber (Beta)]] exists, hmm, it makes matters more confusing. - [[User:Zhen Lin|振霖]][[User talk:Zhen Lin|T]] 00:29, 19 November 2005 (CST)

Hi there. I'm xdaniel, the original author of the Pokemon G/S Development Reconstruction article on DigitalZero Domain - my website - which is linked to here. As several parts of this article here were rewritten, i'm not exactly sure if my appearance etc. here is of any importance anymore but i'd still like to express my view on this. The user Celebi23 here and me are definatly not the same person, whoever that was pretty much just copy'n'pasted my article in here without permission. I had no idea about this until I came across this article (and this Wiki in general) via the German PokeWiki. I don't really know much about how Wikis work, but while, as I already stated, parts of the article here were already rewritten, enhanced, etc., i'd still like to ask if someone of you could rewrite it a bit further - things like the structuring by years or the 1997 Pokemon 2 section - and change the link to my article to point to my (German language btw) website with a note about my article (or something similar). I hope you understand my point and opinion. - xdaniel on April 11th, 2006 at ~14:23 (local German time)

You can do that yourself - that's the main feature of a wiki. Unfortunately, I don't understand German, neither do most of the people here. - [[User:Zhen Lin|振霖]][[User talk:Zhen Lin|T]] 14:24, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

== Categorization ==

I thought I'd catergorize this page, but I'm not sure where to put it. Should it go in Games or Meta? Personally I think Meta but if anyone else has an opinion Ill be glad to hear it

Why not both. You can give an article as many categories as you want. (But don't overdo it.) - [[User:Zhen Lin|振霖]][[User talk:Zhen Lin|T]] 03:40, 24 November 2005 (CST)

== The pics at the bottom... ==

Why're they there? Do they really say anything about Route 46 and the National Park? '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 05:33, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

==Links==

One of the links, when I clicked on it, it said that it was suspected of containing malware. Does it? And if it does, we should remove it. [[User:TorchicBlaziken|TorchicBlaziken]] ([[User_talk:TorchicBlaziken|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/TorchicBlaziken|edits]]) 23:32, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
:It would really help if you gave the link. [[User:The Dark Fiddler|The Dark Fiddler]] - [[User talk:The Dark Fiddler|Nos hablamos?]] 23:33, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

== Something i noticed ==

Probably not that important, but neat nonetheless. In [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/File:1999-GS_beta_title_screen.jpg this picture], behind the gold kanji, the red block looks kinda like an angled number 2. I guess that screen was from before they removed the number from the game's title. [[User:Morgil27|Morgil27]] 04:03, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
:Yea, that's when it was known as Pocket Monsters 2 I believe. I think it is mentioned.--'''[[User:Midnight Blue|Midnight]] [[User talk:Midnight Blue|''Blue'']]''' 04:05, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

== New beta map ==

http://i48.tinypic.com/2d14gaq.png

It's from here (starts at about the 2min mark)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4de7uwhoOyY

What would this be categorized under?--'''[[User:Immewnity|''immewnity'']][[User talk:Immewnity|the]][[Special:Contributions/Immewnity|mew]]''' 14:10, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
:Wow. It's in Polish. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 14:45, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
::Here's a recreation of that map: [http://i41.tinypic.com/3321py0.png] The white fence is the same, but the trees are still the beta ones. --[[User:Jurgen200|Jurgen200]] 09:27, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

== Silent Hills ==
Do we have proof that this was the beta name of the starting town? Because this would be interesting trivia to put on New Bark Town's page, especially considering the Silent Hill horror series.--[[User:Phantomjunkie|Phantom]][[User talk:Phantomjunkie|Junkie]] 21:52, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
:It wasn't the beta name of New Bark. It was a completely different starting town.--'''[[User:Immewnity|''immewnity'']][[User talk:Immewnity|the]][[Special:Contributions/Immewnity|mew]]''' 15:45, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

== Preoder issues? ==

This is something that's been bugging me for some time.

I heard there was issues with the first release of games, specifically those sent to people who pre-ordered Pocket Monsters Gold/Silver in Japan; it was a version with the gender option still implemented, but ended up crashing after the gender was chosen. I heard this back on a few websites during the day, and wanted to know the status of this; after all, this is Pokemon, who knows what rumors may've flown about it.

I can say I would trust one of the sites I've heard it from, but it's been so long (10 years!) that I no longer remember it or know if it exists anymore.
[[User:Lass|Lass]] 01:53, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

== Missing Daughter and the Glitch City Ghost ==
I recently found out about this after finding out about an NPC in the GSC version of Glitch City. She's black and white(almost looking like a ghost) and when she "sees" you the Burned Tower music plays.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFHjaRR6XD0

That sidequest could have been a lot darker than the SS Aqua one. [[User:Sukid|Sukid]] 02:26, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

== Beta Qwilfish/Chikorita/Marril sprites? ==

According to [http://www.betaarchive.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=8416&hilit=pokemon this], there were beta sprites of those three Pokemon left in the coding of Gold and Silver. Do these actually exist, and if they do can they be added to the article? [[User:Yamiidenryuu|Yamiidenryuu]] 03:43, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

== Pocket Monsters GS Demo Data Link ==

I found this link while surfing the internet and I will say it is very informative. I do believe it should be in the Links section, however, I want you guys to look and decide:
http://web.me.com/celebi23/Spaceworld_97_Pokemon/Combined_Demo_Info.html

: Yes, I do agree with your opinion that some info should be on this article. If we do this, the part that says you're automatically named "Ash Ketchum" should be made to the name being automatically changed to Satoshi because this was in Japan and the U.S. counterpart to Satoshi is Ash Ketchum. So, really, it was probably automatically named Satoshi. [[User:JacobTheDoduo|JacobTheDoduo]] 01:50, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

== More beta material ==

Old Pokemon fansites from the time period have a greater collection of screenshots than is featured here, and more and more are turning up:
Much higher resolution of original starting town from Super Game Boy era: [http://i43.tinypic.com/2dbjold.png]
Beta Slowpoke Well entrance from Super Game Boy era: [http://i42.tinypic.com/syqg00.png]
Pokemon party screen, showing an egg but no genders: [http://i43.tinypic.com/35bicsw.png]
Clefairy Pokedex, with beta numbered footprint: [http://i42.tinypic.com/2130iub.jpg]
Beta berry tree design: [http://i43.tinypic.com/35m1ts9.jpg] (final pic for comparison: [http://i42.tinypic.com/vzzujk.png])
Beta Poke Mart: [http://i44.tinypic.com/35ic08x.jpg]
National Park entrance, more simplistic fence sprites and no bin: [http://i40.tinypic.com/dlgk5s.jpg]
Pre-release screenshots of routes and caves etc: [http://i39.tinypic.com/i1wcit.gif] [http://i44.tinypic.com/2md4i1v.jpg] [http://i39.tinypic.com/245zswz.gif] [http://i39.tinypic.com/3504bvc.jpg]

Four pages of beta information are still online at Nintendo.co.jp: [http://www.nintendo.co.jp/n02/dmg/kingin/page01.html]
(Mirror of that site just in case: [http://www.mediafire.com/?ibj1xsg2931xx1j])
--[[User:Jurgen200|Jurgen200]] 08:52, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

:The second pic, the one with the Beta Slowpoke Well, gives a 404 error. Could you please re-upload it? Also, do you remember the websites you found those pics on? - [[User:Ericss|Ericss]] 10:56, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

==Olivine Beta Map???==

I'm sorry, but this looks kinda fake to me. Despite it being a beta map, the other maps are complete, but this on has a black tile with nothing and a house with random inaccessible headbutt trees on it. It just doesn't look real to me. [[User:JacobTheDoduo|JacobTheDoduo]] 03:31, 24 March 2012 (UTC)
:That's because the original tilesets these maps used were removed or damaged beyond repair, so the maps are essentially being shown with the final version's tilesets. Hence why many elements do not show up correctly. --[[User:Dorsal Axe|Dorsal Axe]] 17:49, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
:: Alright, thanks. [[User:JacobTheDoduo|JacobTheDoduo]] 06:46, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

==More Beta Material again!==
Someone at Bulbapedia pages has found another beta material again:

http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/f226/beta-pok%C3%A9mon-sprite-into-pok%C3%A9mon-g-s-c-beta-casino-136155/#post4190263 <--- Pokémon Gold and Silver Beta Casinò

http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/f226/new-important-information-found-about-pok%C3%A9mon-gold-silver-2-alpha-135833/ <--- Two new map about Pokémon Gold and Silver Alpha

== New beta screenshots ==

This [http://k38.img-up.net/gs_098_smac976.gif apparent beta casino] and these [http://t04.img-up.net/b2-109f4e.gif two] [http://z47.img-up.net/b2-11b338.gif other] shots were just added to the page. They should be added to the gallery with the other beta screenshots if they're worth keeping. I'd do it myself, but apparently I can't upload pictures. [[User:Yamiidenryuu|Yamiidenryuu]] ([[User talk:Yamiidenryuu|talk]]) 14:19, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
:... Wait, I just noticed the above post. Disregard this, I guess. [[User:Yamiidenryuu|Yamiidenryuu]] ([[User talk:Yamiidenryuu|talk]]) 14:24, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

== Clearer beta images ==

I found this today, it appears to be a Japanese magazine scan with clearer images of what we have here.
[https://twitter.com/touyu0519/status/330629423768416256/photo/1 New Scan]
[[User:Dehry|Dehry]] ([[User talk:Dehry|talk]]) 01:41, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

== Glitch Dimension ==
If you look at the [[Glitch dimension]] page, you see this during the glitch:
[[File:Glitch dimension Ho-Oh.png|thumb|center|Ho-Oh showing its true colors, in a "clean" Glitch Dimension.]]
I presume that this exists in the coding in the game but not used in the final version (i.e. beta) [[User:Wowy|Wowy]] ([[User talk:Wowy|talk]]) 06:08, 21 September 2013 (UTC)

== Beta content ==

I found some screenshots on IGN and on Unseen64 that might be useful to show more beta content on the page's screenshots section. Some pictures are large.

{|class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed navtemplate light" style="border:1px solid #d3d3d3"
!style="background:#e6e6fa;border:1px solid #ccf;font-size:14px"|Beta screenshots
|-
|
http://pocketmedia.ign.com/media/previews/image/pokemonsilver/pokegols1.jpg
http://pocketmedia.ign.com/media/previews/image/pokemonsilver/pokegols2.jpg
http://pocketmedia.ign.com/media/previews/image/pokemonsilver/pokegols3.jpg
http://pocketmedia.ign.com/media/previews/image/pokemonsilver/pokegols4.jpg
http://pocketmedia.ign.com/media/previews/image/pokemonsilver/pokegols5.jpg
http://pocketmedia.ign.com/media/previews/image/pokemonsilver/pokegols6.jpg
http://pocketmedia.ign.com/media/previews/image/pokemonsilver/pokegols9.jpg
http://pocketmedia.ign.com/media/previews/image/pokemonsilver/pokegols11.jpg
http://pocketmedia.ign.com/media/previews/image/pokemonsilver/pokegols12.jpg

http://www.unseen64.net/wp-content/gallery/pokemon-2/poket-monsters-2-scans02.jpg
http://www.unseen64.net/wp-content/gallery/pokemon-2/poket-monsters-2-scans03.jpg
|}
--[[user:totodile101|Totodile101]] ([[user talk:totodile101|talk]]) 18:06, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
:We can't steal content from other websites. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 18:37, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
:At least get them from the actual source, which is the Japanese Nintendo page for Gold and Silver. [[User:SatoMew2|Sato]][[User talk:SatoMew2|Mew]] 23:07, 3 January 2015 (UTC)

== Probably beta art concept book ==

Hi Guys, today searching on ebay i found an art book of pocket monsters 2. Take a look.
I think that the art book could be a great discovery for details of beta concepts.
[http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ultra-Rare-Ken-Sugimori-Beta-Art-Unreleased-Pokemon-Book-Japanese-/162195940238?hash=item25c3a1a38e:g:TTMAAOSwaB5XkAfS] {{unsigned|‎Xtr3m one}}

==Beta Safari Zone==
Here's some beta gameplay showing someone going into the Safari Zone and encountering level 20-wise Pokemon. This suggests you were supposed to start at Kanto and travel to Johto (like TPP Anniversary Crystal). It also shows beta sprites for Pokemon like Porygon2, Butterfree, and Mankey, among others, which are in a colored RGBY style rather than the final GSC sprites. It shows beta maps, and TONS of info. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMBRA0z-Z8Q {{unsigned|Gs22033}}

== Pokémon Gold SpaceWorld Demo Leak ==

Should we add the info of the leaked demo, or will the demo get a page? --[[User:Prog rocker|Prog rocker]] ([[User talk:Prog rocker|talk]]) 00:37, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
:We don't know if it is legitimate. It could be a hoax to keep the nostalgia train from the recent pre-RG reveals.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 05:43, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
::If this is a hoax, It's the most elaborate one i've ever seen, And i highly doubt TCRF would risk their reputation by hosting a fake beta of a game. [[User:Bearfan121|Bearfan121]] ([[User talk:Bearfan121|talk]]) 17:12, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
:::So, I guess this means wait and see. --[[User:Prog rocker|Prog rocker]] ([[User talk:Prog rocker|talk]]) 19:05, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
::::Let's grant that TCRF wouldn't deliberately host something fake... They could still be hosting something they ''think'' isn't fake, only to later discover that it actually is.
::::Just because they've hosted it doesn't mean it's 100% authentic. So yeah, we can ''at least'' give it more than a couple days to see how it plays out. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 19:14, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
::::::This is approaching the same level of pathetic as when Bulbapedia refused to acknowledge Eternal Flower Floette as real even when multiple people hacked the retail versions of XY to find it with video evidence. It's about as real as anything's ever going to get, and the suggestion that this is a hoax with overwhelming evidence to the contrary is downright embarrassing. How long will Bulbapedia keep its head firmly buried in the sand this time? Did you even do any research before forming your opinion? [[User:Fishman|Fishman]] ([[User talk:Fishman|talk]]) 23:35, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
:::::::Dude, calm down. They will post it in due time. I'm sure of it. --[[User:Prog rocker|Prog rocker]] ([[User talk:Prog rocker|talk]]) 23:40, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
::::::::Protip! Instead of accusing us of just not doing research, maybe suggest some things we may not have seen?
::::::::Fact is, we do understand that it looks pretty authentic. (We absolutely do try to be diligent. Just, that doesn't always mean we'll reach the conclusion you want.) We still prefer to wait for a while, since it is still an anonymous leak. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 01:44, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::My problem is, The only way i see it being absolutely 100% confirmed real is if Nintendo admits it's real (Unlikely) or starts issuing takedown notices, I can't see any other way it can be proven real beyond a shadow of a doubt. [[User:Bearfan121|Bearfan121]] ([[User talk:Bearfan121|talk]]) 03:16, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
{{indent}}Just have to wait it out for now and be patient. We do need to recall that it is unknown to everyone who even dumped or discovered the rom in the first place and that in the past a representative sold a debug version of Pokemon Ruby to a debug / beta collector. Should be interesting to see what happens from here. :) ''[[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen]] [[User talk:Frozen Fennec|Fennec]]'' 03:22, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
:Occam's Razor suggests to me that it's more likely that it's a legit Beta versus an elaborate ROM hack. I totally understand Fishman's frustration because Bulbapedia has a history of being late to the party with info, but I also understand Bulbapedia's desire to ensure that it's authentic and not jump the gun. That said, I'd say at this point it's pretty much obvious it's official, but if Bulbagarden wants to wait until July 1st to start adding info about it, then that's what's gonna happen. -- [[User:Nick15|Nick15]] ([[User talk:Nick15|talk]]) 22:20, 4 June 2018 (UTC)
::I posted this link on the talk page for Prototype Pokémon designs, and since the discussion here seems to be a lot more lively, I thought I would post it here too: [https://iimarckus.org/spaceworld/] I find it very interesting that a small animation used for Hoothoot in the alleged leaked demo was found in the final game... after the supposed demo was leaked. (Just to be clear, I'm not saying that the demo is 100% true for sure, I'm just bringing up potential evidence as a discussion point.) --[[User:Celadonkey|Celadonkey]] 23:45, 4 June 2018 (UTC)
:::I'm just gonna throw this out there as possible evidence against it being legit: One of the supposed beta pokemon is just a straight-up rip off of the mascot for a Japanese doughnut chain. And while there is a rumor that the guy who made that mascot also worked at Game Freak at the time, there isn't really any concrete evidence linking the two. https://legendsoflocalization.com/what-do-japanese-fans-think-of-the-leaked-pokemon-spaceworld-demo/#the-porygon2-surprise [[User:Morgil27|Morgil]] ([[User talk:Morgil27|talk]]) 01:37, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
::::Could have been a tribute, like Square did with the Chocobo. IIRC it was a reference to the mascot of a Chocolate factory or something like that. Sorry if my initial question brought problems here.--[[User:Prog rocker|Prog rocker]] ([[User talk:Prog rocker|talk]]) 02:07, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
:::::Interesting... There's too much of a resemblance between potential beta Porygon2 and Pon de Lion for it to be a coincidence. Wow. I can't think of any explanation for that. On one hand, that's such a specific reference for a fake ROM to make, but on the other, if it was real, then why did Pon de Lion not exist until 2003? Very interesting find indeed.

:::::No need to apologize, Prog rocker, I think this is a discussion that is worthy of being had. This, if real, would be one of the biggest pieces of Pokémon history, and if fake, would be one of the most disappointing hoaxes of Pokémon history. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celadonkey]] 02:14, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
:::::: First time making a comment, so I apologize if I do this incorrectly but- proto Porygon2's resemblance to Pon de Lion should not be considered evidence against the leak as proto Porygon2 also bares a strong resemblance to a LOT of lion-shaped baby toys. Pon de Lion is a cutesy four-legged lion with a donut mane, and proto Porygon2 is a cutesy two-legged lion showing off the graphical upgrade to spheres. Both are just a simplistic lion-based design that anyone could have thought up, so I do think that it can be passed off as coincidence. [[User:Yoriven|Yoriven]] ([[User talk:Yoriven|talk]]) 05:41, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

@Nick15; The page being protected until July 1st is not a cue for anyone to add the information. That's just an estimated time to see if this gets proven real or fake by that date.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 06:22, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

@Force Fire Interestingly, the title screen with the orange and black Ho-Oh sprite does show up in a screenshot at the SpaceWorld '97 off-screen, but it's too far away to make out at first glance, but you can see the orange and black sprite if you zoom in on the image on one ofthe screens, it was posted on the Beta Resetera thread.:

https://tcrf.net/images/0/06/Playable_silverSW97.png [[User:Tyler11]] ([[User talk:Tyler11]]

The guy who first started disassembling Pokemon games has written an article with some evidence that they are real prototypes: https://iimarckus.org/spaceworld/ --[[User:Dorsal Axe|Dorsal Axe]] ([[User talk:Dorsal Axe|talk]]) 20:26, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

:I guess there's a orange and black smudge there? I don't think it's possible to compare it to the 1996 promo nor to the 'leaked' demo.
:iimarckus's account proves nothing. The details of the demo could've been read beforehand and the animations and stuff could've been copied and edited from the original Gold/Silver ergo having such similarities. [[User:ExLight|ExLight]] ([[User talk:ExLight|talk]]) 03:34, 8 June 2018 (UTC)
::This just in, random Bulbapedia editor knows more about the inner workings of a rom that is neither a Red Version hack or a Gold Version hack than a person responsible for disassemblies. Expert analysis means nothing because jimbob didn't get confirmation from daddy nintendo that the sky is blue. [[User:Fishman|Fishman]] ([[User talk:Fishman|talk]]) 01:45, 9 June 2018 (UTC)
::Absolutely, any matching details could easily be attributed to the fact that all of this information is public on the Internet, and that any dedicated hoaxer could have copied every detail. However, I think it's worth mentioning that that image did not exist on the Internet until after the demo was leaked, as Google reverse image search shows.

::Right now, I think the link that I and Dorsal Axe posted is the best piece of evidence that we have so far. Hopefully more is revealed through time. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celadonkey]] 03:39, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

:::The image above? The Black and orange sprite is pretty much unrecognizable. This ain't exactly a high-res camera. As I said, we can't really see if it is the 1996 prototype sprite (which would prove the leak to be fake) or the one from the leak (which could prove the leak to be true)...
::: [[User:ExLight|ExLight]] ([[User talk:ExLight|talk]]) 04:05, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

@ExLight I zoomed in to the spot I'm talking about to try to get a better look, and took a screenshot of it to get a better look at the sprite, sorry that it's low-res, hope it looks a little more clearer to you. The '2' is missing from the logo, just like on the ROM.:

http://prntscr.com/jsloxe

And I found this 'gif' on 4chan, someone compared the ROM's 'Route 1' with the image's
Route 1.:

https://archive-media-0.nyafuu.org/vp/image/1528/37/1528376630486.gif

I do take the entire ROM with a bucket of salt, but it has been an interesting ride, even though I'm on 'Team Real' currently. I think the 1996 build was an earlier build, though, some of the locations in the ROM were present in magazine scans, such as the town with the tower, which had a window on its doors in the scan, and in the ROM, it's just regular wooden doors. My belief in the ROM is merely just an opinion, you may agree or disagree, even it is a clever fake if proven so in the end. [[User:Tyler11|Tyler11]] ([[User talk:Tyler11|talk]]) 16:08, 8 June 2018 (UTC)
:Very interesting find. Even in that low quality image it's clear that the trees/fences/grass match up.

:The one thing that doesn't though, is this blob here:

:https://i.imgur.com/Z5qIL7O.png

:However, when I checked the actual game to see what goes on there, there's a trainer who wanders around there, and sure enough, he stood in that spot. Seems to check out to me. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celadonkey]] 17:41, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

at this point we're in full desperate denial mode, huh? literally every piece of evidence, even stuff people more or less didn't scrutinize at all or completely missed prior to the proto going public is being ignored because "w-well they could have just made it up based on this photo and not the other way around so it doesn't count!!" give it up and get in touch with reality. there is no rational reason to plug your ears and shout at this point, and that's about all it can be characterized as. the earth isn't flat. [[User:Fishman|Fishman]] ([[User talk:Fishman|talk]]) 01:41, 9 June 2018 (UTC)
:No need to be so aggressive... Bulbapedia's stance is to wait until concrete evidence surfaces, which is a far cry from "desperate denial mode", and even then they discuss it, which takes time. Be patient. If it is true then it will likely be added to the site within a month or so.

:If there is a possibility that the people who leaked the demo "could have just made it up based on this photo" as you say in your portrayal of Bulbapedia, even a slight possibility, then staff will decide not to put it up. That's how it works here, you don't have to like it, but there's not much you can do to change it It really isn't worth insulting other editors over..

:I do believe that the ROM is real, but I also appreciate the need to confirm everything 100%. Even if that means, God forbid, we have to wait more than a week or two for information to be put up. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celadonkey]] 01:57, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

::There will literally never be magical, Nintendo-sourced statements to "100%" confirm that this is real. Expecting that is stupid. At this point, trying to claim that this romhack with hundreds of completely original sprites that anyone with functioning eyes can tell are a bridge between the first and second generation art styles (particularly with gen 1 pokemon) is fake makes about as much sense as claiming that anything we treated as fact before the Spaceworld Proto leaked is fake. There's plenty on this very article that's unsourced that I could just as easily claim are fake just because I don't like them. After all, photoshop exists so anything that doesn't get a press release confirming the legitimacy of is fake. Videos are fake too. Entire games are fake. Reality is fake. [[User:Fishman|Fishman]] ([[User talk:Fishman|talk]]) 02:11, 9 June 2018 (UTC)
:::Nobody is saying that these leaks are 100% fake. We're just saying we're not 100% sure yet. Yes Occam's razor says the leak is real but until hard concrete evidence comes out that are undisprovable without any doubt then we can't say it's 100% real yet. There isn't yet that has come out, so therefore, we can't put it up yet. Anyways, saying that we can't undoubtedly prove the veracity of these leaks (which != saying they're fake) is a whole nother world from saying that videos, entire games, and reality is fake, so I'm not sure what you're trying to prove with that.

:::If you want to help prove these leaks real so they do get onto the wiki officially, then you should probably be a bit less harsh, chill out a bit, and help out with us instead. And again, it's only been a little more than a week, expecting something this huge to be up so quickly is asking for a little much. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celadonkey]] 02:29, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

:The level of scientific absurdity reached in this page has gone too far. Even if the leaked ROMs aren't real prototypes, the level of magnitude they got in the social media is too big to simply hide them as if they never existed. I suppose this kind of wiki was made to compile relevant information about Pokémon, so if the ROMs have spread worldwide and almost everybody knows about them, they really deserve a place here. Science is not perfect, it's based on evidences and we make new discoveries everyday, so it's completely normal that we change our minds and end up modifying things (physics, paleontology, medicine, all is open to interpretation and changes). Not adding the leaked ROMs information won't prove you're smarter or correct, but reflect you think you're infallible, and trust me, that's impossible for us. It's not even necessary to add a reference of the leaked ROMs as an immovable truth or the truly lost prototypes, just add them and add a sticky on the top reflecting what they are: leaked ROMs which possibly are the lost prototypes everyone is talking about and had an enormous impact in the fans of the franchise. Is it that hard? Think about it, for example, we have references to the Electric Soldier Porygon incident, we have suppositions about where the Pokémon names could come from and we have even a section dedicated to ROM hacks. You'll end up adding this new information, even if it's all a scam, it's part of Pokémon franchise story, so please, stop being so elitist and open your minds. --[[User:Micael Alighieri|Micael Alighieri]] 13:27, 9 June 2018

::A couple of things everyone coming here to be rude seems to be missing:
:::1. On their twitter account, the bulbapedia webmasters have stated they are waiting a full month before adding anything (more or less to give people time to do all the research on the demo itself and to avoid any possible legal trouble that might come anyone's way from this demo.)
:::2. While an official confirmation would be delightful, nothing is going to be added until after this month; ultimately, whether or not Spaceworld demo stuff gets added sooner or later is up to the webmasters and Editor-In-Chief to decide.
:::3. NO ONE is saying this is a rom hack or fake, it's merely speculation that people who have not been to this wiki keep thinking that the whole wiki is thinking. I have seen a comment or two at first wondering if it was real or not but the more info that comes out, the less people are even debating the validity (most users here have come to the conclusion it is very much real but as point 1 states, everyone still needs to wait it out til July).
::On that note, I do not see why people are getting so upset that this demo is not being added to the wiki immediately. Even with past betas and demos, they almost rarely were ever added right away, I have to agree with the staff and do not see much reason to change the way they wait out to add certain content. No webmaster or admin here is trying to be smug and act like we are better than everyone else, that's just a very misleading opinion from those who do not come here often. So please refrain from getting hostile towards the wiki while we all wait for the final choice of the Webmasters and Editor-In-Chief, thank you. ''[[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen]] [[User talk:Frozen Fennec|Fennec]]'' 11:36, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

@Frozen Fennec Agreed, people who are acting this level of rudeness need to calm down, and let the staff decide what to do, all I did was provide some images to help provide evidence, which can be seen above, two screenshots, one of them being a zoomed in version to show a blurry tile screen, and s gif comparing a Route to the one in the ROM. It's disappointing to see people acting rude and nasty to the staff when they haven't reached a decision yet. [[User:Tyler11|Tyler11]] ([[User talk:Tyler11|talk]]) 12:47, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

:So, what you're saying is if Nintendo were to be catastrophically stupid enough to pursue LEGAL ACTION against people for making a prototype public, Bulbapedia is willing to match that stupidity and refuse to cover or publish anything found in that prototype? There is literally no reason to pretend this doesn't exist. It's only going to get more embarrassing the longer people insist on keeping their heads in the sand. A wiki isn't a book you have to drag your feet on finishing until the dust settles because you only get one chance to do it. Congratulations on the decision to waste the fact that Bulbapedia is a wiki. We're paralyzed for a month in fear because we wouldn't want to put anything on Bulbapedia that isn't 100% correct. But those Trivia sections, man? Those are perfection. Just vomit random speculation and coincidences into those and press Save. [[User:Fishman|Fishman]] ([[User talk:Fishman|talk]]) 20:30, 9 June 2018 (UTC)
::Fishman, Nintendo [https://www.giantbomb.com/pokemon-blackwhite/3030-30613/forums/websites-hit-with-copyright-infringement-notices-448310/ has pursued legal action over this kind of thing in the past], first of all. Legal action against sites that publish information, such as Serebii. It's really not worth risking.

::Besides, the point is that the staff decided to wait because we want to prevent any speculation. Waiting for the dust to settle, you know? If we just let people edit immediately, then what will likely happen is people who are so excited by the reveal will edit whatever information in that they see online before we know if it's correct. That would be a lot of work to edit out, and we want to prevent that kind of deal whenever possible. If we wait a month we will likely know the full details of the demo as well, which we aren't completely sure we do at the moment. Stuff is still being discovered at the moment, such as how to get into caves and ruins with no warp data. It's only been nine days since the alleged demo has been leaked.

::We also are still continuing to find more and more information proving the veracity of these leaks. Do we have enough evidence right now? I have no idea, honestly. In my opinion, yes, but it could be argued that there's nothing concrete right now. And even if there was, it's gonna take at least a week for staff to decide whether it should be treated as real or not. Expecting it this soon is asking for a lot. Bulbapedia is arguably the most influential Pokémon fansite out there so we really do need to take the possibility, even a very very very slim one, that it ''could'' be fake extremely seriously. If we do put the information up and it turns out to be fake, simply removing it won't repair the possible influence that the existence of the information on the site had.

::And even if there is 100%, inarguable evidence, and even if it had been a year since that information was discovered— which is very far from the situation we're in right now— there is still absolutely no reason to be rude to fellow editors, to staff members, and to the site itself. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celadonkey]] 21:00, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

{{indent}}Protip all around! The complaining, and answering the complaining, isn't really doing anything except making the section longer. If people want to complain further, please leave it be. We'll all live. Anything that could be said in this vein mostly has been, and complainers gonna complain.

We continue to welcome constructive discussion of the subject of the leak (as opposed to simple frustration). Thanks! [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 21:23, 9 June 2018 (UTC)
:Since I am a bit worried that this is turning into another Diancie/Hoopa/Volcanion issue, I think that there needs to be a step taken back on the discussion. Regarding everyone saying that it is a fake or that it is real, I would like to enquire about the July 1st date. What happens if not enough evidence of it being a fake or a real prototype comes out prior to that date? Does it get a separate article stating that it is neither, does the deadline get pushed back, or does a third action occur? In addition, is there a location to post what we believe is evidence for or against this program being the Spaceworld 97 prototype or should such evidence be posted here? --[[User:Super goku|Super goku]] ([[User talk:Super goku|talk]]) 21:59, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

@Tiddywinks Well said, I provided some screenshots an a gif above as potential evidence to help give more evidence of the ROM being real, albeit, the stuff is low-res, unfortunately. [[User:Tyler11|Tyler11]] ([[User talk:Tyler11|talk]]) 23:16, 9 June 2018 (UTC)
:Well, I don't know Japanese, but you can ask me if I see anything. Just want to know how I can help. --[[User:Prog rocker|Prog rocker]] ([[User talk:Prog rocker|talk]]) 03:03, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

@Tiddlywinks Helix Chamber enhanced this old '97 pictures, provided by dmrn28 from Twitter, who provided the sketches of the '97 Pokemon, andf enhanced it, and Ho-oh is in the same position as the sprite on the 1997 beta demo title screen.:

https://twitter.com/helixchamber/status/1010220554010480640

[[User:Tyler11|Tyler11]] ([[User talk:Tyler11|talk]]) 14:09, 23 June 2018 (UTC)
:So I guess nothing has happened, right? --[[User:Prog rocker|Prog rocker]] ([[User talk:Prog rocker|talk]]) 01:43, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

{{indent}}There are pages currently in the works [[User:Frozen Fennec/Pokémon Gold and Silver Spaceworld Demo|here]], [[User:Abcboy/Pokémon Gold and Silver demo/Pokémon|here]], and [[User:Celadonkey/Spaceworld/Locations|here]]. these pages will make there way in the mainspace, they just need to be fleshed out. If anyone wants to add information about the spaceworld demo, feel free to add them to those userpages. Do not add them to the GS beta page or Unused design pages yet.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 03:46, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
:I'm sorry if I sound like a noob, but how can I edit those pages. They don't have the edit button anywhere. --[[User:Prog rocker|Prog rocker]] ([[User talk:Prog rocker|talk]]) 02:53, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
::On the top of the page, like all other article. You can edit them freely to add information, it's not protected.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 03:54, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
:::Weird, there's no edit button anywhere. I even used Ctrl+F to make sure I wasn't skipping anything. --[[User:Prog rocker|Prog rocker]] ([[User talk:Prog rocker|talk]]) 00:49, 3 July 2018 (UTC)
::::Oof yeah, I wanted to help out and add the attacks, but it seems that I don't have an edit button either. [[User:Yoriven|Yoriven]] ([[User talk:Yoriven|talk]]) 02:11, 3 July 2018 (UTC)
:::::Right, you're both new users. You have to be autoconfirmed to be able to edit the userspace. To be autoconfirmed, you have to make a certain amount of edits in the mainspace and be a user for some time.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 05:49, 3 July 2018 (UTC)
::::::Got it. I'll find something to do around here. --[[User:Prog rocker|Prog rocker]] ([[User talk:Prog rocker|talk]]) 21:53, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

Rather than acting needlessly paranoid over the veracity of what was clearly a legit leak, you people should have looked at the article itself. It assumes that 1997_GS_Route_35.png is Route 35 and connects to National Park, presenting that speculation as a fact. And lo and behold, now that we have access to the prerelease demo, we can see that these assumptions were incorrect. [[User:Ericss|Ericss]] ([[User talk:Ericss|talk]]) 22:05, 14 July 2018 (UTC)

:Uuh, you talk about it being speculation while using an anonymous, non confirmed by GF/Nintendo, leak. That's not much better... [[User:ExLight|ExLight]] ([[User talk:ExLight|talk]]) 23:54, 19 July 2018 (UTC)
::Ericss, please know that the information was most likely added back when Bulbapedia just started in 2005. Way before the leak surfaced. So obviously we couldn't fact check it since there was nothing to fact check it with.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 03:43, 20 July 2018 (UTC)
:::ExLight: The point is that people were getting so anal and paranoid over the legitimacy of the leak, yet the clearly baseless speculation in the article got a free pass all these years.
:::But regarding your comparison. A "non confirmed leak" (just like pretty much every leaked game prototype out there) of what is a clearly legitimate prototype ROM that anyone can verify with an emulator and whose veracity had been accepted by people who have experience at dealing with leaked protos, versus baseless speculation that was never officially confirmed yet was being passed off as fact by the article. Yes, I'll say the situations are rather different.
:::Force Fire: So? It was still unconfirmed speculation that the article treated as a fact. [[User:Ericss|Ericss]] ([[User talk:Ericss|talk]]) 10:10, 21 July 2018 (UTC)
::::Everyone failed to recognize the erroneous information. It's done, and fixed now. There's no point to belaboring the issue. We can all try our best, but being perfect is very hard. If you're worried about other pages, feel free to check them yourself and ask about anything you find worrisome. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 12:51, 21 July 2018 (UTC)

== Spaceworld Implementation ==

Starting a new section because the last one has gotten quite long- I've been wondering if staff have any idea of how they would like to implement the demo Pokemon. I know some Pokemon that barely differed from their final design could just be added to the Pokemon's regular page as trivia, and that would probably be easier and make more sense than giving every demo Pokemon a separate beta page, but what about demo learnsets or even the base stat info? These differed for many Gen I and II Pokemon.

Also wondering if there's a better location to discuss the implementation of Spaceworld info than on this page. If there is, please direct me. =3 [[User:Yoriven|Yoriven]] ([[User talk:Yoriven|talk]]) 13:05, 22 July 2018 (UTC)

:There is a page for {{DL|List of unused Pokémon and character designs|unused or altered designs}}. About the more in-depth stuff it doesn't seem to be too relevant since it never came to public. [[User:ExLight|ExLight]] ([[User talk:ExLight|talk]]) 15:25, 23 July 2018 (UTC)
::I would agree if this was Smogon, but I don't think Bulbapedia would be a very good resource on all things Pokemon if it neglected to include available information? It's an encyclopedia for Pokefans, not specifically gamers, and someone might find that information interesting and relevant. [[User:Yoriven|Yoriven]] ([[User talk:Yoriven|talk]]) 14:47, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

I have compiled Spaceworld learnsets for all existing pokemon [[User:Yoriven/SpaceWorld/Learnsets|here]]. This is just in case it is decided to try to incorporate demo information into the existing pokemon's pages. I have learnsets for all of the scrapped pokemon filled out too, but am saving those for their page mockups.

I have also started to write what little information there is for some of the existing pokemon into trivia notes [[User:Yoriven/SpaceWorld|here]]. [[User:Yoriven|Yoriven]] ([[User talk:Yoriven|talk]]) 21:24, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

I just came across this on 4chan, someone thinks the demo could actually have come after Spaceworld 1997's, but who knows for sure.:

http://prntscr.com/l8ml64

Although, another person replied to it said it could be a build made shortly before Spaceworld 1997.:

http://prntscr.com/l8mm54

And this person said this build 'could' be closer to theHobbyfair '98 build.: http://prntscr.com/l8p4wr

Sorry for the link post and edits, I was surfing through the internet for any other things about this.
[[User:Tyler11|Tyler11]] ([[User talk:Tyler11|talk]]) 14:41, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
:::I was going to point out that the demo's intro screen could be seen in footage of the Spaceworld 97 event, but you were the one to post the image showing that earlier on this page so I guess I don't really have to tell you. XD

:::In any case- footage of the event matches the demo, whereas pre-event footage with the 1996 intro screen and older graphics seems more likely to be from a build given out for media coverage beforehand. As for the fan art from the event- they were drawn from memory after the artist's return home, and the comment next to ledyba even remarks something to the effect of "there was a ladybug pokemon but I don't really like ladybugs so" with the implication that it was probably not exactly right because they weren't personally interested in the design.

:::Here is some recent commentary from the artist, actually: https://twitter.com/dmrn28/status/1006084888712208384 [[User:Yoriven|Yoriven]] ([[User talk:Yoriven|talk]]) 21:52, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
::::The Spaceworld Demo is going to be its own set of pages actually. We have several different articles across the site too. If anyone is able and wants to; they are more than welcome to help edit the articles and make them more complete. It is asked that everyone refrains from adding speculative comments though. Links below to the current work in progress pages:
:::::[[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/User:Celadonkey/Spaceworld | Beta Pokédex entries and Pokémon information]]
:::::[[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/User:Frozen_Fennec/Pok%C3%A9mon_Gold_and_Silver_Spaceworld_Demo | Pokémon Gold and Silver Spaceworld demo / beta]]
:::::[[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/User:Abcboy/Pok%C3%A9mon_Gold_and_Silver_demo/Pok%C3%A9mon | Beta Pokémon information]]
::::Any help that can be given with completing these is welcome.~ ''[[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen]] [[User talk:Frozen Fennec|Fennec]]'' 13:56, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
I hope I don't sound rude, but it's been well over six months since the public release of the Spaceworld demo, and all the chaos surrounding LGPE has passed. I believe it would be a grave mistake if we don't document this incredibly important piece of Pokémon history in the near future. I also believe that if we start mainspacing information on it little by little, such as [[User:Celadonkey/Spaceworld|a single page on one Pokémon]] or [[User:Frozen_Fennec/Pok%C3%A9mon_Gold_and_Silver_Spaceworld_Demo|a page summarizing the demo]], then it would spur more interest in adding more and more, and through the teamwork of the contributors of this website, we could very quickly have comprehensive information about the demo up. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celadonkey]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 19:36, 2 January 2019 (UTC)
:I have pretty much given up unless Bulbapedia gives any indication that they desire the SpaceWorld articles to ever be mainspaced, but [[User:Yoriven/SpaceWorld/Learnsets2|here]] is the work that I had done awhile ago on the moveset tables for all pokemon who were left out of the final version of the game. Good luck to anyone who is still working hard on this, you're real troopers! [[User:Yoriven|Yoriven]] ([[User talk:Yoriven|talk]]) 21:34, 15 May 2019 (UTC)
::Frozen Fennec and I have been working hard at [[User:Frozen Fennec/Pokémon Gold and Silver Spaceworld Demo|this page]]-- I have already sent it to an administrator who said they would pass it on to the others. The future is, in my terribly optimistic opinion, looking bright for Spaceworld information on BP. --[[User:Celadonkey|celadonk]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 21:09, 16 May 2019 (UTC)

== Spaceworld Information ==

I've mentioned this before here, but I seriously think it would be in our best interest to start creating pages for the Pokemon Gold spaceworld demo in increments now, rather than all at once when it gets finished somewhere. It has been nearly nine months since the demo surfaced and its veracity has been more than proven.

I have made a few pages myself in my userspace, as have others such as Frozen Fennec, but I would rather not do all the workload of creating pages for every single Pokemon. Rather, I think that if we put up one or two pages, such as Honoguma or something, and a list of Pokemon, it would spur user interest in this incredibly valuable piece of Pokemon history, and we could quickly have a comprehensive database on the demo.

Personally I recommend mainspacing [[User:Frozen Fennec/Pokémon Gold and Silver Spaceworld Demo|Frozen Fennec's userpage]], and then under the Pokemon subsection, put a [[User:Celadonkey/Spaceworld/Dex|list of Pokemon with red links]], with [[User:Celadonkey/Spaceworld|one or two of the pages]] created.

Please feel free to reply with your input. --[[User:Celadonkey|celadonk]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 16:44, 23 March 2019 (UTC)
:With the way Helix Chamber and its affiliates handled the alleged "RG leak", it sort of puts doubt on the spaceworld leak, at least in my opinion. If they have the time, effort, and ability to create fake front sprites for the "RG leak", whose to say they don't have the time, effort, and ability to fake the whole thing (that goes for both the "RG leak" and the spaceworld leak). I have always been, and am now 100%, against putting anything from the spaceworld leak on Bulbapedia. We were lucky to get the initial RG scoop last year because is was from an ''official source'', and now a couple month after that a "spaceworld leak" appears from some anonymous source (i.e. not official). It has always been suspicious in my eyes.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 06:06, 24 March 2019 (UTC)
::Putting fake sprites into a game, and even adding fake Pokémon to it, are fairly straightforward. Creating a whole game that is halfway between the Generation I and II games, which lead to discoveries of unused content in the Generation II games that nobody was previously aware of, is not. You can also read [https://iimarckus.org/spaceworld/ analyses] by experts like iiMarckus. Pulling off a fake like this would be virtually impossible. There is no doubt that the demo is real. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 07:50, 24 March 2019 (UTC)
:::Yeah. Besides, the incident with RG was a completely unrelated one by different people; it shouldn’t affect the proven veracity of Spaceworld. It was probably just capitalizing upon it. --[[User:Celadonkey|celadonk]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 14:21, 24 March 2019 (UTC)
:::With that in mind, I still maintain that information should start to be added from the Spaceworld demo, now that we've gotten its legitimacy out of the way. I believe that not documenting it on Bulbapedia would be neglecting a hugely important piece of Pokemon history, especially for how long it has been available for. I'd be more than willing to do some of the work, as I've already done quite a bit in my userspace. --[[User:Celadonkey|celadonk]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 19:34, 25 March 2019 (UTC)
:I don't see how HC's "Capumon mockup hack" undermines the authenticity of the leaked Spaceworld ROM. That mockup ROM was actually very easy to identify as it is a simple hacked version of an English-language Yellow ROM. It can be identified right away as such and it is obvious that an actual leaked ROM wouldn't look like this (it wouldn't be based on Yellow, work on GBC and be in English). It wasn't even intended as something meant to trick people, more like some kind of fan imagination (it was their error to present it in such a way, creating all that confusion among the fans). The Spaceworld GS demo does not have such betraying features - it has all traits of an independent ROM base, something that would be very hard (if not impossible) to fake in a convincing way. Also, if we take that Helix Chamber are a bunch of scammers who dedicate their time to fabricating fake leaks, why did they never finish the announced translation patch for GS97? This just doesn't make sense. Face it, arguing that GS97 ROM is a hack is nothing more than a conspiracy theory at this moment. Also, to me it sounds like a notable thing for article ''even'' if it is a fake (we have articles on numerous fandom phenomena with much less impact than it). My advice about making the article on Spaceworld demo is that I would draw a clear line between the accessible material (since this is actually something that has been made public) and all that unfinished stuff that are not accessible without cheating/debugging. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 20:00, 25 March 2019 (UTC)
::That's a good call for that last part, I wouldn't have thought to do that. For individual Pokemon pages for Pokemon unavailable without debug mode, would it be best to put a statement like "This Pokemon is unavailable in the demo without the use of debug mode" or something similar? --[[User:Celadonkey|celadonk]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 20:06, 25 March 2019 (UTC)
:::Any attempts to add anything about the spaceworld demo still needs approval from the editorial board. I've made my stance pretty clear on this.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 03:35, 26 March 2019 (UTC)
::::We know that. We’re just discussing. --[[User:Celadonkey|celadonk]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 13:19, 26 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::I'd encourage people to separate the information Helix Chamber received from the poorly-conceived and mismanaged way in which they chose to reveal it to the world. The source provided them with information in an extremely unhelpful manner (it's the digital equivalent of an amateur digging up an archeological site themselves and handing any artifacts they uncover to experts rather than allowing those experts to excavate and catalogue their findings scientifically) and they did what they could to verify its authenticity. [[User:ThomasWinwood|ThomasWinwood]] ([[User talk:ThomasWinwood|talk]]) 19:27, 20 April 2019 (UTC)
So we are now approaching the one year anniversary of the public debut of the Spaceworld demo rom. That’s one year we’ve gone without any of this information on the site. And I get it, in the early stages it wasn’t exactly confirmed if it was real or not, but we’ve known that it is for a while now. And I know how the processes work here for approving changes to the site, but frankly, this shouldn’t ''need'' such a process— to be blunt, it should just be common sense that something so important to the history of Pokémon be allowed to be added without any kind of hesitation. Hell, even Wikipedia— a non Pokémon focused wiki— has an {{wp|Unused Pokémon in the 1997 Pokémon Gold and Silver demo|article}} dedicated to it. The point is, we can’t continue to call ourselves a Pokémon encyclopedia if we are to deliberately ignore such crucial information. We’ve tiptoed around this for a long time. It’s time to make a decision. --[[User:Celadonkey|celadonk]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 12:49, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
:The editorial board is still debating this? Has the number of irrefutable proof of the demo's authenticity posted by Celadonkey and others been presented to them? [[User:Ericss|Ericss]] ([[User talk:Ericss|talk]]) 05:22, 27 May 2019 (UTC)
::It has been presented but I doubt it's still being debated by mods, and honestly, I doubt it even has been to the extent to which you're picturing. Over the past year and a day (because, as of yesterday, the introduction of the ROM to the internet is a year old) it has been fruitlessly brought up probably more separate times that I can count on my hands. Personally, I've probably written enough about BP's treatment of the ROM both here and on the Discord to write a book, and I know others have too. But every time it is brought up it is largely ignored by people who, well, hold ANY power over the future of Bulbapedia. Either way, this is getting ridiculous.

::My view on BP is getting exponentially more cynical as it continues to ignore something so crucial. Come on, guys. It's been over a year now and a lot of us still have to implore to include Pokemon information on a Pokemon wiki. We're better than this, right? --[[User:Celadonkey|celadonk]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 19:35, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

:::I have to agree, this is ridiculous. This is about the only place on the web that refuses to acknowledge the demo's legitimacy. And even then, it seems to be mostly Bulbapedia's staff; people are tired of explaining that the demo has been proved legit, but it all seems to fall on deaf ears. How paranoid and (frankly speaking) clueless can the staff be regarding the subject? [[User:Ericss|Ericss]] ([[User talk:Ericss|talk]]) 12:22, 28 May 2019 (UTC)
::::Seems my page has been being looked at for about 2 weeks now if I recall correctly. celadonk and staff member abcboy have both helped a lot on it. I am hoping sometime in the next week or two it could be approved so more people can help add on to the page itself as well. While it has been roughly a year since it was confirmed and NO STAFF MEMBER is saying it is "not valid information" and such as you seem to be accusing them of. We always need to wait for them to move the pages to the mainspace which I do not have as much of an issue with. Probably going to try adding a bit more to it later today and seeing if I can ask a little more about mainspacing the article one more time. :) ''[[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen]] [[User talk:Frozen Fennec|Fennec]]'' 13:47, 28 May 2019 (UTC)
:::::So the staff isn't debating its authenticity? Ah, my apologies to them then. I'm just frustrated that it has been over a year and it's still not covered by Bulbapedia, userspace aside. I think that's the longest we have gone on without adding widely known verified information. [[User:Ericss|Ericss]] ([[User talk:Ericss|talk]]) 14:13, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

Talk:Pokémon Gold and Silver beta

2019-05-28T12:22:59Z

Ericss:

Talk:Pokémon Gold and Silver beta

2019-05-27T05:22:09Z

Ericss: /* Spaceworld Information */

Talk:List of unused Pokémon and character designs/Archive 1

2019-05-26T04:05:55Z

Ericss:

== Name ==

This page needs to be renamed, to something like "Unused Artwork" or "Unused Concept Art", due to the fact that somethings are not Pokémon. Also, am I the only one who sees a massive relation between {{p|Raichu}} and Honouguma, {{p|Cyndaquil}}? Nah it looks to me to be more of a possible Raichu evolution. - [[User:Ferret|Ferret]] 19:32, 19 Jul 2005 (UTC)

> Why would Raichu evolve into a Pokemon without "chu" in it's name, who according to it's own name is a Fire-type? {{unsigned|Zeta}}

They were trying something different maybe? It just seems to bear an amazing resemblance. - [[User:Ferret|Ferret]]

Did you guys think it was a pre-version of Teddiursa, but maybe scrapped when it was too related to Raichu. It is a bear, and a bear pokemon was released in Johto.
[[User:Firemaker|Firemaker]]

== Article ==

So, Bulbapedia has an article about Unreleased Pokémon, huh? Now all we need is an article on ''Fake'' Pokémon. - [[User:Pokencyclopedia|Pokencyclopedia]]

== Validity issues ==

I've always found those sketches rather dubious now that I think about it. Where did they originally come from? Is there any proof at all that they are original concept art? - [[User:Ferret|Ferret]] 22:40, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

: Excellent question. However, I do know I remember seeing them way back then on PokéFor (note the fine print on the images) around the release of G/S. - [[User:Zhen Lin|振霖]][[User talk:Zhen Lin|T]] 02:19, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

:The ones that were obviously scanned look like Sugimori's style, especially the trainers. So, at the very least, "Unnamed Mammal" and "Unnamed Turtle" are real. One can even see the turtle with Tyranitar in the Male Trainer art. I don't know what those other rough sketches are, though. They aren't Sugimori. --[[User:Argy|Argy]] 05:04, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

== Commentary issues ==

'''Unnamed mammal'''

''The Unnamed mammal has been said to resemble Hitmontop or Meowth''
:Really? I definately see some {{p|Wigglytuff}} in there! [[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] 17:20, 26 November 2005 (CST)
::This is gonna sound weird, but something about the design reminds me of {{p|Snubbull}}. It's the blue collar on a pink creature thing, I think. --[[User:Pie|Pie]] ~[[User talk:Pie|♪]][[Special:Contributions/Pie|♫]] 14:58, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

'''Kurusu'''

''This creature resembles a seal, but doesn't seem to have much relation to any Pokémon as of yet''
: [[Image:Alpha kurusu.png]][[Image:086Seel.png|200px]]
: --[[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] 14:52, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

'''Unnamed turtle'''

''A turtle Pokémon that was never released. It's possible it was later heavily reworked into Torkoal.''
:Am I the only one who sees Swampert's head in there? --[[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] 14:52, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

== Pictures ==

What website are those pictures from?--[[User:Ambipom|Ambipom]]--

== Other names and additional info ==

Back when Gold and Silver were about to come out, i remember there was an article in Gamepro magazine about the Japanese Gold and Silver that had a LOOONG list of beta Japanese names for the new pokemon, and the same article also had a few temporary English names. The ones I remember: Artibull instead of Smeargle and Xoqo instead of Xatu. Only problem is, that article is long gone. Can anyone help out?
--[[User: Jurgen200|Jurgen200]]--

Check out this list...

*152 Chikorita Chicolita
*153 Bayleef Beifiru
*154 Meganium Meganiumi
*155 Cyndaquil Hinoarashi
*156 Quilava Magumarashi
*157 Typhlosion Bakufun
*158 Totodile Waninoko
*159 Croconaw Arigeitsu
*160 Feraligatr Odairu
*161 Sentret Otachi
*162 Furret Ootachi
*163 Hoothoot Hoho
*164 Noctowl Yorunozuku
*165 Ledyba Rediba
*166 Ledian Redeian
*167 Spinarak Itomaru
*168 Araidos Araidosu
*169 Kurobat Kuroba
*170 Chinchou Chonchi
*171 Lanturn Rantan
*172 Pichu Pichu
*173 Cleffa Pi
*174 Igglybuff Pupurin
*175 Togepi Togepi
*176 Togetic Togechikku
*177 Natee Neitei
*178 Natotem Neiteio
*179 Mareep Meripu
*180 Skiploom Mokoko
*181 Centerity Denryu
*182 Bellossom Kireihana
*183 Marill Mariru
*184 Azumarill Mariruri
*185 Sudowoodo Usokki
*186 Politoed Myorotono
*187 Hoppip Hane
*188 Flaffy Popo
*189 Jumpluff Watakko
*190 Aipom Eipamu
*191 Sunkern Himanattsu
*192 Sunflora Kimawari
*193 Dunsparce Yanyanma
*194 Ampharos Upa
*195 Quagsire Nuoh
*196 Espeon Efui
*197 Umbreon Burakki
*198 Murkrow Yamikarasu
*199 Slowking Yadoking
*200 Trillix Muuma
*201 ????? Annon
*202 Crashin Sonansu
*203 Girafarig Kirinriki
*204 Skarmory Kunugidama
*205 Forretress Fuoretosu
*206 Duglari Nokocchi
*207 Gligar Guraiga
*208 Steelix Haganeru
*209 Snubbull Buru
*210 Granbull Guranburu
*211 Wobbuffet Harisen
*212 Scizor Hassamu
*213 Octorock Tsubotsubo
*214 Heracross Herakuroso
*215 Misdreavus Nyuura
*216 Moonlite Himeguma
*217 Soloar Ringuma
*218 Slugma Magumaggu
*219 Magcargo Magukarugo
*220 Swinub Urimu
*221 Sirnub Inomu
*222 Corsola Sanigo
*223 Remoraid Teppouo
*224 Octillery Okutan
*225 Delibird Deribado
*226 Mantine Maintain
*227 Wooper Eamudo
*228 Houndour Derubiru
*229 Houndoom Heruga
*230 Kingdra Kingudora
*231 Phanpy Gomazou
*232 Donphan Donfuyan
*233 Porygon 2 Porygon 2
*234 Stantler Odoshishi
*235 Artibull Doburu
*236 Hitmontot Baruki
*237 Hitmontop Kapoera
*238 Smoochum Muchura
*239 Elekid Erekid
*240 Magby Bubii
*241 Miltank Mirutanku
*242 Blissey Hapinasu
*243 Raikou Raikou
*244 Entei Entei
*245 Suicune Suikun
*246 Larvitar Yogirasu
*247 Pupitar Sanagirasu
*248 Tyranitar Bangirasu
*249 Lugia Lugia
*250 Ho-Oh Houou
*251 Selebi Serebeii

[http://maxpages.com/ashversusgary/Gold_Silver_Pokedex Source]
--[[User:Ambipom|Ambipom]]--
:Seems as if some, like Flaaffy and Skiploom, are flipped. --'''[[User:TTEchidna|T]][[User talk:TTEchidna|T]][[wp:Echidna|Echidna]]''' 22:52, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

::Wow, I actually remember those lists from back when G/S wasn't out in English yet. Every site had their own list of names that were confirmed, then had potential names that had been registered as copyrights or whatever listed somewhere and had people try to figure out which name went to which Pokémon.

::So, of course, the reason a few of them are mixed around is because the list was made when we could see what names had been registered (domain names of each Pokémon's name usually get registered by Nintendo ahead of time, or something like that); nobody knew what a Skiploom actually was, so Flaaffy ended up with the name Skiploom in most fans' lists (I guess nobody noticed the hop-skip-jump thing.)

::There's even a few of the common misspellings of the Japanese names that showed up in a lot of magazines and stuff before G/S's English release. "Hane"/"Popo" instead of Hanekko/Popokko, for example. With those in the list, I'm actually surprised the list doesn't have "Yanyan" listed as Umbreon/Burakki's Japanese name--that was a disturbingly common slip-up that magazines used to make back then.

::I do remember some of those names, but as far as I know "Natee" and "Natotem" never actually came from any sort of official source (either stated in Nintendo Power or registered online somewhere)--I actually remember talking about how "Xatu" and "Xoqo" (the guesses for Natu and Xatu's names at the time) were good names once, and someone randomly butted in and said that they should be named "something like Naytee or Natotem" instead. So yeah, those two are definitely fan-made names, probably made by people who wanted Cheesy Cram-Two-Words-Together Names and didn't like the much-more-interesting ones like Xatu. I also don't remember "Octorock" as a name for Tsubotsubo--and it's extremely unlikely that Nintendo was ever considering it, since it's already the name of a well-known Zelda monster. [[User:Zdododododo|Zdododododo]] 07:42, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

::The dodgy Maxpages fansites aside, here is what turned up from google searches of "Artibull" "Trillix" "Duglari" and "Xoqo":
http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/archive/index.php?t-19796.html [THIS GUY KNOWS WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT]
http://www.woodrecords.com/megahangout/Pokedex_4_Gold_and_Silver [early list, including the games they're found in]
http://maxpages.com/pokemonil/Gold_and_Silver_English_Names
http://maxpages.com/pokepapparazzi/Pokemon
http://www.gamefaqs.com/portable/gbcolor/file/198308/9132 [japanese walkthru with english names pasted in - confused names in the pokedex]
http://theoparadise.tripod.com/oldnews.htm [scroll down for pokemon list]
http://guidesarchive.ign.com/guides/11154/marowak.html ["guardia"]
http://www.pokebeach.com/pokemon.shtml [has all the beta names for red blue pkmn]
http://www.angelfire.com/md2/lugia149/list.html [all correct except for xoqo and torvado]
http://www.math.miami.edu/~jam/azure/forum/tuff/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=001495 [forum chatter about name confusion]
http://members.fortunecity.com/putobracker/90.html [artibull and hitmontot, however its foreign]
http://maxpages.com/tecnospokemon/POKEMON_GOLD_AND_SILVER_ATTACK ["milk berry" is the beta "milk drink" attack btw]
http://maxpages.com/tecnospokemon/NEW_GOLD_AND_SILVER_ATTACKS_2
http://pokemaniac2948.tripod.com/Attacks/ [funny guessed attack names - atom force and gang beating lol]
http://members.tripod.com/alyshakitty/pokedex2.html
http://members.tripod.com/alyshakitty/pokedex2p3.html
http://members.tripod.com/alyshakitty/pokedex2p4.html
http://members.tripod.com/alyshakitty/pokedex2p5.html
All of the Kanto names mentioned on these and other websites are genuine beta names. The poster included with my first edition 2BA Master CD had about 15 out 150 pokemon with the bizarre beta names like "dragoon" and "Guardia". These names are on the Pokemon's individual pages but they should be collected together. Same with the gold and silver names, at least a paragraph explaining the confusion that occurred among the fans. Sorry if this entry is too long and rambly :) [[User:Jurgen200|Jurgen200]]

I remember something like that in a magazine too, with beta images of the pokemon w/beta names. I lost it though. I think it was in Beckett.
[[User: Firemaker|Firemaker]]

what are crashin, trillix and number 201?- ''unsigned comment from {{u|Nobody777}} ([[User talk:Nobody777|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Nobody777|contribs]]) ''
:Crashin (Sonansu) is {{p|Wobbuffet}}, Trillix (Muuma) is {{p|Misdreavus}}, and ????? (Annon) is {{p|Unown}}. ([[User:Yaminokame|Yaminokame]] 13:41, 27 January 2010 (UTC))

==Is honouguma somehow related to the [[Pikachu]] and [[Marill]], much like the three birds?==
[[File:183Marill.png|150px]][[File:Alpha honouguma.png|150px]][[File:025Pikachu.png|150px]] 
Am I the only one to see a connection here? - [[User:Yukushi wisdom|Yukushi wisdom]] 19:15, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
:Hmm... Yeah, I see one. '''[[User:TTEchidna|TTE]][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 01:16, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
::Yeah... [[User:SpecialK|SpecialK Leiks Lucario and The Celebi Glitch]] 14:45, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

== Unown ==

Those "unreleased" Unown don't have to be unreleased.

*They don't count as Beta Pokémon because they were revealed after the release of Gold/Silver.
*I doubt they were ever meant to exist in games. They might be just anime-made.
*The pictures of Unowns seen in third movie are just pictures of several drawings of Unown. They may be a pure fiction. That's possible that these Unowns never existed, but someone drew them like that.

This page is about Pokémon which didn't make it to the final game. Those Unowns aren't one of them. They are anime-wank and no one says they were ever meant to exist. Those pictures in the movie were just DRAWINGS made by PEOPLE, not photos of real Unown. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 18:15, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
:Well the ! and ? Unown are proof that more Unown designs were being considered for the next games, so they should be added[[User:Vuvuzela2010|Vuvuzela2010]] 11:35, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
::They are no such thing. There's no evidence that the ! and ? Unown were planned since Gold and Silver. We just know that they were added in FRLG. Besides, this topice is like two and a half years old. --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] 11:39, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
:::well the film was released not long before Kecleon, Wailmer and Azurill were revealed, a year I think, and their designs were exactly the same as they look now, so they had possibly finalized a good number Ruby/Sapphire pokemon by then (I dont know when the pics of Treecko, Torchic and 'Latiken' were taken however, I am also unsure how long it takes them to make the films(they are usually crap so probably not long)), besides they could have just used pics of the 26 original unowns[[User:Vuvuzela2010|Vuvuzela2010]] 21:13, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

== "2v2" Template? ==

There's a template on the top of the page, and I don't know what it is supposed to be, could someone figure that out and fix it? [[User:Theininen|Theininen]] 16:01, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

:It's been taken care of. --[[User:Politoed666|ニョロトノ]][[User talk:Politoed666|''666'']] 16:06, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

::Thanks for that. [[User:Theininen|Theininen]] 16:29, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

== octorok comment ==

kirby has an ally named "chuchu" thats also zelda[[User:Whatswithalltheextraspace|Whatswithalltheextraspace]] 23:37, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
::Zelda's Chuchus didn't show up until LONG after Kirby's Dreamland 3. Plus, they're both gooey blob monsters that can stick to things, so it could be that the Zelda one was actually named after the Kirby one (or both were named after some other non-videogame-related thing... Japanese game/anime/etc. characters tend to have names like that pretty often.)[[User:Zdododododo|Zdododododo]] 19:39, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

== Page Title ==

The page title says unreleased Pokémon, yet there are designs of prototype player characters that definitely aren't Pokémon. I want to move the psge to something more appropriate, but what?--[[User:Kuki|Kuki]][[User talk:Kuki|Talk]] 00:25, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
:Maybe something like Unreleased Concept Artwork would be more accurate? Although since some of these are from magazines, saying the artwork itself is unreleased wouldn't be true...so something like Beta Concept Artwork? [[User:Lucentas|Lucentas]] 00:40, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
::Sometimes it's better to keep it simple. This is one of those times. [[User:GlinnMgraw|'''Glinn]] [[User_talk:GlinnMgraw|Mgraw''']] 07:22, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

== Pikachu.. ==

Does that really count? It's still Pikachu,it's just a little bigger(like a lot of the pre-anime designs,just look at the starters),and I'm pretty sure that came out after the games were released. Also,but offtopic,with Leaf..Should it be said she is Leaf? [[User:Lovely Rose|Lovely Rose]] 03:48, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

== Charizard.. ==

Should we include the Charizard from the same art as the Pikachu? It has a larger jaw then a regular Charizard, and is larger. [[User:Lovely Rose|Lovely Rose]] 17:05, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
:Many Pokémon designs change over the years. It's a completely different matter. It's simply early art, not really an unreleased thing. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 14:49, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

== unnamed turtle ==

In the male trainer section, the unnamed turtle is in the picture. Does this suggest that it is early art for {{p|Squirtle}}? [[User:Turtwig A|Turt]][[wig]] [[Turtwig (Pokémon)|A]] ([[User talk:Turtwig A|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|contribs]]) 23:50, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Most likely not since in that same picture one can see Tyranitar and other beta-Pokemon most likely from Gen II. As ar as I know it's a cover of a magazine that was suppose to report about the next Generation of Pokemon (or at least about plans). [[User:Ariano|Ariano]] 06:46, 24 March 2012 (UTC)
::I have the magazine in question. Unfortunately, there is no information on Gold/Silver within. The only indication of them is the cover itself. [[User:Slowpokeisgod|Slowpokeisgod]] 00:18, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
:::Hmmm... Most likely it's still not about Gen I Pokemon since it's from 1997... It could've been a "hint" of new games in development. [[User:Ariano|Ariano]] 06:44, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

== Starters? ==

Could Kurusu and Honoguma have originally been intended to be the Water and Fire Starters to go with Happa? [[User:Taromon777|'''''Taromon''''']] 14:29, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

== Does anyone remember this? ==

i just remember when I was a kid i had a magazine that showed all the then 100 new Pokémon. But they we're not in their Sugimori art. And I can't remember if they had their English names. If anyone remember, would it be useful?--'''[[User:Midnight Blue|Midnight]] [[User talk:Midnight Blue|''Blue'']]''' 05:08, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

if you can remember the name of the magazine and what issue and maybe post them on the talk page maybe they can be qualified as unreleased.--[[User:Nobody777|Nobody777]] 17:49, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

== Torchic and blaziken beta art ==

From did that art come from???--[[User:Nobody777|Nobody777]] 18:48, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
:I've seen that in 151chan (posted by a very trustable person). It seems to be photographed from some gallery. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 18:51, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

are there anymore pictures we can post or at least a reference??--[[User:Nobody777|Nobody777]] 19:26, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

== Green? It's BLUE! and other conflicts involving the Character section ==

I was reading a scanlation of Pokémon Special when I saw one of the pics that's in
this article in it!(It's the black-and-white pic of Red, Green, and Blue with thier fully-evolved starters.) I was immediatly reminded of the article and went to it, sure that the page
said that the pic was beta art.

And I was wrong, but I saw something else!

The page said that the girl in the aforementioned pic was Green.

Either Green had a gender change or the article's wrong!

Here's who's who- with the boys equated with their Anime counterparts-

Red-"Ash"

Green-"Gary"

Blue-the girl

The article needs fixing, but since this also goes into parts I don't know about-
I'm still reading Red-Green-Blue- I can't fully proofread it.

Also, I think the book under the color pic showing Red, Green, and Blue with
thier unevolved starters is Pokemon Special- at least a copy of it.
[[User:ThaPoketrix|ThePoketrix]] 22:24, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
:The rival's name is Blue. He's known as Blue when he's an NPC in GSC and HGSS as a Gym Leader. However, he is known as Green in Japanese. As such, the girl's name would be Green, or Blue in Japanese, as was done in the manga. '''~ [[User:Sol|sol]][[User talk:Sol|ar]][[Special:Contributions/Sol|is]]''' 22:30, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
::Some fans have a tendency to mix Japanese names with English (especially in the case of Blue/Green). But they're not right. Trust official sources, not scanslations made by fans. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 07:33, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

== Who is that? ==

Who is supposed to be riding the Latias/Blaziken Pokemon in the artwork? [[User:Flyingtypefan|Flyingtypefan]] 23:30, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
:Some unused trainer obviously. Maybe they should have their own entry?--[[User:Pokelova|''Poké'']][[User talk:Pokelova|lova!]] 04:29, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
Does anyone else think so? [[User:Flyingtypefan|Flyingtypefan]] 06:06, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
::This very artwork was later heavily remade by Sugimori into a scene artwork with actual Latias and Latios. There's a girl that rides that Latios on that art. This isn't really the same girl but she looks a bit similar. You know which artwork I mean, don't you? --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 07:50, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Unfortunately, no. I didn't really pay attention to art and stuff with Gen III. Can you show me the art?--[[User:Pokelova|''Poké'']][[User talk:Pokelova|lova!]] 11:18, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
::::It's at [[a:File:Latias_Latios.png]]. But I don't know if it's that important to this article-- unlike some of the Pokémon or characters on this page, this character probably was never intended to appear in any game. Methinks this artwork is merely intended to be just that, artwork. It doesn't have to correspond with anything from any game. --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] 12:10, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
:::::She's still an unreleased character with beta art.--[[User:Pokelova|''Poké'']][[User talk:Pokelova|lova!]] 12:18, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::Should she be referenced to then? {{unsigned|Lovely Rose}}

== Unnamed Turtle And Shuckle? ==

Though the article states it is similar to Squirtle, could it possibly be an evolved form of Shuckle? They both have a shell, they both have similarly shaped heads and considering Shuckle was introduced in generation II, it could have been an expansion on the family. Think of the expansions on gen II families in gen IV. This could have been the same thing. I do agree, however, it does look like Squirtle though. [[User:FrozenStrategy|FrozenStrategy]] 19:32, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

== Unknown Pokemopolis Pokemon ==

During the episode The Ancient Puzzle of Pokemopolis, Brock is seen holding a statue of an unknown pokemon, worth a mention I think.
http://www.serebii.net/anime/pictures/indigo/074ps1.shtml

[[User:Vuvuzela2010|Vuvuzela2010]] 04:20, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
:Wow, nice find. Definitely needs a mention. Perhaps the last one is trapped in the GS Ball :D And re-watching the episode, perhaps also the statues in sequence shortly after: [http://www.serebii.net/anime/pictures/indigo/074ps2.shtml here]. I'm surprised no one noticed this before. I guess everyone repressed the memory of that horrifying french accent. - [[User:DanPMK|MK]] ([[User Talk:DanPMK|t]]/[[Special:contributions/DanPMK|c]]) 04:43, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
::Celebi is in the GS Ball. Kurt ate it. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 04:49, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
:::Heh. Closest Pokémon that frame fits is Teddiursa, but the difference is enough that I'd call it unknown. - [[User:DanPMK|MK]] ([[User Talk:DanPMK|t]]/[[Special:contributions/DanPMK|c]]) 04:51, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
::::I am now almost certain that the artifact is Honoguma with round ears, as they are both bear-like, have similar builds, obviously the markings would not normaly be part of the Pokemon, as the Psyduck artifact, Giant Gengar, Giant Alakazam & Giant Jigglypuff have similar markings, anybody else see the resemblance?[[User:Vuvuzela2010|Vuvuzela2010]] 12:17, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

== "Resembles" ==

Can we excise all the speculation about what a released Pokémon each unreleased Pokémon somewhat resembles? Isn't it entirely possible that these Pokémon are entirely unreleased and in no way influenced the design of later Pokémon? [[User:Slowpokeisgod|Slowpokeisgod]] 09:13, 8 October 2010 (UTC)
:Well, for most of them from Generation II and onward, it's pretty obvious which later designs they influenced; take Happa for instance, it's obviously a beta Chikorita. But I wouldn't be against removing the speculation about the pre-Generation II art, such as the "unnamed turtle". --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] 10:51, 8 October 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I think the info that is obviously rubbish should be removed, such as Honoguma (a bear, & a starter) being related to Raichu, & Kurusu (also a starter) being a pre-evo of Seel or Lapras (no resemblance whatsoever), also, I cannot see any resemblance between the Turtle & Turtwig (yet another starter), & it is highly unlikely to be an evo of Squirtle (someone was obviously obsessed with starters!), the about the Turtle & Purutoga should stay however, since the similarities are pretty undeniable, the bit about Torkoal might as well stay too.[[User:Vuvuzela2010|Vuvuzela2010]] 11:29, 8 October 2010 (UTC)
:::I happen to have the full artwork of the turtle and can say that it has very little resemblance to Purutoga. I think rather than having an actual relation they just have similar design themes, both being turtles and all. For example, the new electric flying squirrel resembles Pachirisu, but they're not related. They simply follow typical themes standard for a Pokemon of that type. [[User:Slowpokeisgod|Slowpokeisgod]] 00:39, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
::::couldn't the relation between the old turtle and new turtle be that the old one was scrapped concept art that was revived for the new generation when they decided to discount the old pokemon and make this one completely new?--[[User:Ash0011|Ash0011]] 20:28, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

== EP072 thing ==

I wouldn't really try to search for any meaning in that bear-like thing from EP072. It's a random thing, most likely created for the anime only. It has no meaning. There's no evidence that it was ever intended to be a Pokemon. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 18:22, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
:Looking into it, it's a painted Psyduck figure.--'''[[User:Immewnity|''immewnity'']][[User talk:Immewnity|the]][[Special:Contributions/Immewnity|mew]]''' 14:30, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
::There is a Psyduck artifact, but thats not what this is about.[[User:Vuvuzela2010|Vuvuzela2010]] 14:40, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::the one that brock is holding looks more bear-ish and isn't yellow--[[User:Ash0011|Ash0011]] 20:25, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

== Ok, Really? ==

I know the pink top looks like Hitmontop but it looks clearly like a Clefairy as well, and Cleffa came the next generation did it not? The "Meoth whiskers" thing is a bit vaque though. But can we at least mention Clefairy? --[[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']]''' 20:17, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

== Turtle ==

couldn't the relation between the old turtle and new turtle be that the old one was scrapped concept art that was revived for the new generation when they decided to discount the old pokemon and make this one completely new?--[[User:Ash0011|Ash0011]] 00:35, 22 January 2011 (UTC)
:Hellooo anyone care to comment?--[[User:Ash0011|Ash0011]] 22:08, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
::That's just speculation, we don't know that. And its not like Shellos and Gastordon, which were saved for the next generation, there is a 3 Generation (and 10 year) difference. Also, the artwork we currently have doesn't show the whole Pokemon, so untill we have that, we can't really speculate about this (if someone knows where to find the original, non-cropped artwork, please post it). '''X'''[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']]'''X''' 23:59, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
:::someone on the resembles thread says they have it.--[[User:Ash0011|Ash0011]] 21:40, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
::::Yes, I spotted that yesterday, I've posted a comment on their talk page, but thanks for mentioning that anyway. Still no reply though :( If it turns out to be a dead end, I might look around the web myself, though where to find a reliable, non-fan-created picture is the problem. '''X'''[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']]'''X''' 21:47, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

== Arachnoid ==
In the episode "The Superhero Secret" there is a strange arachnoid. It can be seen on this page [http://www.serebii.net/anime/pictures/johto/140ps5.shtml]
[[User:Kodde|Kodde]] 11:35, 22 January 2011 (UTC)
:That's [[Team Rocket|team rocket]]'s robot--[[User:Ash0011|Ash0011]] 04:06, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
No it isn't. If you watch the episode you can see that it dosen't move mechanicaly and it dosen't say anywhere that it is team Rockets robot. [[User:Kodde|Kodde]] 10:03, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
:Having just watched the episode, it would certainly seem to be a Pokemon, even if it is just supposed to be a prop (it even has a cry), though it would have been created for just this episode (though it's not the first anime-exclusive Pokemon). It is odd however, that they did not just use a giant Spinarak. It should be added, if you want to add it feel free, though I will probably get round to adding it tommorrow.'''X'''[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']]'''X''' 17:47, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
::It's a fictional monster. Fictional from the Pokémon world's point of view too. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 18:13, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
:::In other words, it is a fictional Pokemon, like how some legendaries are seen in universe to be fictional? Still worth noting. '''X'''[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']]'''X''' 19:05, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
:::That's obivously not what Maxim ment. That thing is obviously not ment to be a Pokémon. It's only ment to be a fictional monster for Gligarman to fight. If you're going to include that thing, you may as well include the Mongoose from Ghost of Madien's Peak episode or the worm Pidgeotto ate in episode 3, or the "Legendary Water Pokémon" Misty imagined in the Slowpoke Enlightenment episode Etc.[[User:PDL|PDL]] 19:31, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
::::But we don't know if it is ''not'' a Pokemon for certain, though I wouldnt say the others should be included, the mongoose is just Gastly, and I think the worm is just meant to be a real worm. I have not seen the Slowpoke episode however, so I cannot say anything about that thing (though I am getting it up on my laptop now). '''X'''[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']]'''X''' 20:02, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
:::::It was shown only in a fictional story of Gligarman. So, it's reasonable to assume that it doesn't exist in the Pokemon world. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 20:07, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
::::::oooooh that one okay that shouldn't count because that looks like it's in one of those old giant spider-godzilla movies.--[[User:Ash0011|Ash0011]] 20:22, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
If you think it shouldnt be on the page, then you can remove it, though I still feel it should be in the article, as it is for ''Unreleased Pokemon'', and even though it may be fictional, it is still seems highly likely that it is a fictional Pokemon, and thus releavant to the article. As for not existing in the Pokemon world, with the possible exeption of the EP072 bear, none of the unreleased Pokemon on this page would exist in the Pokemon world either... '''X'''[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']]'''X''' 20:25, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
:okay then that makes sense--[[User:Ash0011|Ash0011]] 21:33, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
:Perhaps it would be better to have a separate list for "Non-Pokémon" creatures and keep this entry specifically about Unreleased or beta Pokémon '''As they are ment to appear in the games'''. Anime only stuff hardly counts. [[User:PDL|PDL]] 23:06, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
::While I disagree with your ''Anime only stuff hardly counts'' comment, as the anime is often used to showcase unreleased Pokemon (like Togepi, the gold Ho-Oh in EP001, or possibly the bear with a rather striking resemblance to Honoguma in EP072), the seperate list doesn't sound like a bad idea actually. Though I would prefer the name '''List of disputed Pokemon''' or something along those lines, as there is already a list for [[animals|non-Pokemon]]. This page would need to be renamed to reflect the change, unless the list would simply be a new section on this page? '''X'''[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']]'''X''' 23:47, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Then I wonder why [[Zapmolcuno]] isn't here. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 10:42, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
::::I was refraining from adding it, incase everything was to be moved around. Same goes for [[Venustoise]], the unreleased Unown forms seen in [[M03]], the Sun and the Fairy seen in the book of Legendary Pokemon in [[M03]], the wooden Celebi seen in [[M04]], and the creature attacking Alto Mare at the start of [[M05]]. '''X'''[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']]'''X''' 17:52, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
Perhaps we really should keep this page for Pokémon artwork that's explicitly "beta". Anime appearences of "non-Pokémon" should really go to a different page. [[User:PDL|PDL]] 00:42, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

I think that We should add the ones mentioned above as they are ''presumably'' pokémon and I think we should add a section for pokemon appearing only in the manga that have no natural explanation such as Zapmolcuno and the manga dialga/palkia fusion statue at eterna city (there is a picture of it on the eterna city talk page).--[[User:Nobody777|Nobody777]] 17:58, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
:they should be added, but for now, you can add them to this page
:[[User:Vuvuzela2010/Disputed Pokémon]]
:'''X'''[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']]'''X''' 19:26, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

== Kurusu = Daikenki/Samurott? ==

Does anybody here see a resemblance between the unreleased Kurusu and the 5th-Gen Samurott/Daikenki?

[[File:Alpha kurusu.png|300px|Kurusu]]

[[File:503Samurott.png|300px|Samurott]]
--[[User:Bad Grim|Bad Grim]] 04:52, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
:Um..... No. They're vaguely the same shape and that's it. [[User:Ikarishipper900|Ikarishipper900]] 04:00, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

I see it... Quadrupeds, probably water-type, maybe a very old possibility for Oshawott?
[[User:Shinyzubat123|Shinyzubat123]] 21:22, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

The similarity is as obvious as between Honoguma, Pikachu/Raichu and Marill... [[User:Ariano|Ariano]] 06:41, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

==Bellossom? Jynx?==
If Bellossom is on here for a color change, shouldn't Jynx be as well? To be honest I feel like Bellossom being on here is a little sketchy since the dark blue coloring was obviously released. However, if Bellossom is valid, Jynx should be on here too, right? [[User:Ikarishipper900|Ikarishipper900]] 03:59, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
:No. Jynx was originally black and released as black coloured, but it was changed along the course of the franchise. While Bellossom was previewed to be dark blue, but was changed to a green colour before release.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F''']][[Reshiram (Pokémon)|orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F''']][[Zekrom (Pokémon)|ire]] 09:31, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
::But wasn't this official GSC artwork? Why is that considered before release? [[User:Ikarishipper900|Ikarishipper900]] 04:38, 7 May 2011 (UTC)

== More unreleased Pokemon - Japanese translation needed ==

In the Capsule Monsters sketches, [http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/3897/pkmn1285890995744.jpg one shows two unreleased Pokemon, with their numbers and possibly Pokedex entries]. Can someone please translate this? {{unsigned|Vuvuzela2010}}
:The bug is Papyō and the cat is Buhī.--'''[[User:Dennou Zenshi|電禅]][[User talk:Dennou Zenshi|Den Zen]]''' 15:30, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
::[http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/8/8a/Pokemon_conceptart.jpg And here's three new Pokés:] the lizard is '''Godzillante''', the ape is '''Gorillaimo''' and the Dragon is '''Dragon4'''.--'''[[User:Dennou Zenshi|電禅]][[User talk:Dennou Zenshi|Den Zen]]''' 17:53, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
:::Thanks for that! I've added them all in now. Do you know what the text entries next to those five Pokemon say? It looks like it could be a Pokedex entry, or maybe it says what type they are? '''X'''[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']]'''X''' 20:39, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
::::I can't really translate Japanese text; I mainly just romanize katakana and hiragana.--'''[[User:Dennou Zenshi|電禅]][[User talk:Dennou Zenshi|Den Zen]]''' 20:49, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
:::::I'd personally make a separate section, or maybe even separate article for Capsule Monsters. They deserve a special place! --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 12:01, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
::::::Well, we do have [[Capsule Monsters]]. This is basically just an extension of that. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 12:42, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
:::::::So, I'd rather add them there or start a new article "List of known Capsule Monsters" or something like that. I don't think that the prototypes of Pokemon and scrapped Pokemon designs invented later should belong together. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 08:12, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
::::::::Yeah, I agree. They are two different things. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 10:11, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

== Moving to Prototype Pokemon and characters... ==

I'd like to suggest that this article be moved to "Prototype Pokémon and characters". Not only does this article list things that have been unreleased, but it also lists Pokemon whose designs had simply been alerted, and are therefore still technically released. "Prototype" can easily refer to both kinds, so I'd like to suggest that the article be moved to that. [[User:Rai Marshall|Rai Marshall]] 19:49, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
: I concur ''[[User:Sui|'''Sui''']][[User talk:Sui|'''Scorpio''']]'' 02:23, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

::Because half of this page is "altered", not "unreleased", I think the more universal term "prototype" is better suited. '''[[User:Toon Ganondorf|Toon Ganondorf ]] [[User Talk:Toon Ganondorf|(t]] [[Special:Contributions/Toon Ganondorf|c)]]''' 06:34, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
:::First, I think that early Capsule Monsters should be covered separately and things like Bellossom should be deleted. It doesn't fit here. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 07:41, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

::::Even if a listing of Capsule Monsters do get their own page, there's still other kinds of Pokemon designs that were still simply alerted, like those Gen II alters. There's still a reason for this to be called "Prototype Pokémon and characters". [[User:Rai Marshall|Rai Marshall]] 20:03, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
:::::Why should Bellossom be deleted? It was altered before release, and is relevant to the article. '''X'''[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']]'''X''' 20:09, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
::::::Also, I would support the move. '''X'''[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']]'''X''' 20:11, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
:::::::Actually, the artwork with purple Bellossom is its actual GS artwork (a final thing, not an early sketch like the rest). So, it's not really unreleased. At the same logic, we should also add Slowpoke here because it had a stripped belly in the original GSC. Many Pokemon has been given cosmetic design changes over the generations and it's really hard to call their older designs "prototype". --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 07:54, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
[[File:1999 Bellossom Artwork.png|thumb|right]]
:The Bellossom artwork was like that years before G/S were released, they just never bothered changing it. And Slowpoke is hardly the same, that was just a sprite error. '''X'''[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']]'''X''' 09:36, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
::Sprite error? "Error" implies accident. This doesn't look like an accident. There's no artwork from that era which contradicts that "error", hence no proof that it's an error. And the fact that Bellossom's artwork wasn't changed means that it's to be treated as a final thing. And compared to the other prototypes we have, it's a really minor change. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 14:18, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
:::I support the move: I just think that a word better than prototype could be chose. It sounds too mechanical. ''[[User:Maverick Nate|'''Maverick''']][[User talk:Maverick Nate|'''Nate''']]'' 14:25, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
::::In response to the Bellossom point. The alterations to Bellossom are the same as those that Jynx undertook. They were both one color-scheme up until some time after their release, and then they were both changed post-release. If one should be included here then so should the other I would think. Thanks. ''[[User:Sui|'''Sui''']][[User talk:Sui|'''Scorpio''']]'' 20:50, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
:::::Error does not always mean accidental, it can also mean they screwed it up. A good example is the 'upside down' Koffing from Red and Blue (or any other sprite from Red/Green/Blue), obviously intentional. And Slowpoke's striped belly has not been seen in the anime, TCG, or any other media, even though it should be partially visible in [http://archives.bulbagarden.net/wiki/File:SabrinaSlowpokeGymHeroes95.jpg its TCG artwork] and [http://pkmncollectors.livejournal.com/3016560.html its Ken Suginori Bandai artwork].
:::::Also, Jynx does not count, since it ''was'' released. '''X'''[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']]'''X''' 05:28, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
:Sorry about Jynx, I got confused about the Bellossom artwork not changing. Slowpoke's striped belly can be seen in the Bandai artwork for Aerodactyl: http://pkmncollectors.livejournal.com/3016560.html ''[[User:Sui|'''Sui''']][[User talk:Sui|'''Scorpio''']]'' 05:55, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
::That's like saying that Charmander was 'prototype' because it once had spikes on its back. Ken Sugimori's early art had a lot of things depicted that were either changed or remove in subsequent games. Likewise with in-game sprites, such as the GRB Machamp with spikes on its head. But in all honesty, this section is supposed to be for discussion on whether this article should be moved, NOT whether Bellossum or Slowpoke was prototype. Can someone please split this up? [[User:Rai Marshall|Rai Marshall]] 06:02, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
:::Noted, I've moved it to the section below. '''X'''[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']]'''X''' 12:07, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
::::Er, no. This wasn't split up. [[User:Rai Marshall|Rai Marshall]] 01:05, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

== Palette changes ==

Rather than just delete, lets harness the power of the talk page. Should altered palettes, like those found below, be included in the altered Pokémon section? ''[[User:Sui|'''Sui''']][[User talk:Sui|'''Scorpio''']]'' 20:42, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

{{TrainerPoké
|nick=Wynaut
|type1=Psychic
|img=Beta Wynaut.png
|epnum=Pokémon Ruby and Sapphire beta
|epname=Pokémon Ruby and Sapphire beta
|desc={{main|Wynaut (Pokémon)}}[[File:360Wynaut.png|170px|right]] Pre-release screenshots of Wynaut show that it was going to be green in color rather than blue.}}

{{TrainerPoké
|nick=Excadrill
|type1=Ground
|type2=Steel
|img=BW Prerelease double battle.png
|epnum=Pokémon Black and White beta
|epname=Pokémon Black and White beta
|desc={{main|Excadrill (Pokémon)}}[[File:530Excadrill.png|200px|right]] In Excadrill's first appearance in a promotional video, it was colored purple instead of brown and its stripes were mirrored. However, this was not long-lived, as it was changed to its current appearance in the next video.}}
:Both are video quality's fault. When the screenshot of Wynaut surfaced, we have already had its artwork revealed and it looked just like now, so there was never a design change. And this Excadrill was extracted from a very low-quality video. Actually, all colors on this video are off. Even Haxorus is greenish yellow. That's nothing more than a matter of quality. All high quality versions of the same video had correct colors. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 09:01, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
::Sorry to blend in the conversation, but how about Excadrill's belly pattern? That can't be a quality error, can it? [[User:TyraniThrone|Tyrani]][[User talk:TyraniThrone|Throne]] 11:12, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
:::My view is, it would probably be better to include those with minor alterations, such as Exadrill and Tyranitar, in a ''Minor alterations'' subsection. '''X'''[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']]'''X''' 11:29, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
::::Does anyone know the exact date when Bellossom's GS artwork was released? If it was after its first anime appearance (where it was green), it could be worth mentioning the contradiction. '''X'''[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']]'''X''' 12:07, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

== Buizel ==

I remember I saw once a scan of a magazine released before the release of D&P showing a black siloutte of Buizel with two "collars" instead of one. If I find it again may this added to this page? Also the Unnamed turtle actually have legs, it isn't "just a head sticking out of a shell". --[[User:SamuStar|SamuStar]] 16:27, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

== Altered human designs ==

There's a template for Altered Pokemon Designs, so why not for the humans? I can think of a few who received design overhauls.. As said Silver's hair was shorter in the concept art, Kris seems to have gotten a design overhaul from the beta to the main product, and that seems to be Red in the Capsule Monster sketches. [[User:Dia Sprite|Dia Sprite]] 23:52, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

== Who are this Pokemon? ==

http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/3706/45234089orgv1315354262.jpg

Seriously... Who? I thought the fish was Basculin but the name does not match, then we have that... Siloutte thing next to Deerling that does not match any of the forms of neither Deerling or Sawsbuck, Alomomola design is noticeable different (and shares traits with Luvdisc: Shape, "blush sticker" and mouth, I think it was once planned to be an evolution) and Pansage is fat.

I also noticed the battle sprites are similar to those of Generation IV, same half-body back-sprites.

Found [http://photozou.jp/photo/show/761853/45234089 here]. [[User:LurKasumi|LurKasumi]] 09:18, 8 September 2011 (UTC)
:That image was a hoax from the Japanese Black and White pre-release period. - [[User:Kogoro|'''Kogoro''']] '''-''' [[User talk:Kogoro|'''Talk to me''']] - 09:28, 8 September 2011 (UTC)
:: Oh derp, thanks. [[User:LurKasumi|LurKasumi]] 09:35, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

== Additions ==

Here's a [http://archives.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Special:Contributions/Chickasaurus whole bunch of stuff to add] for someone who has the time to add it in. [[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']][[Koffing (Pokémon)| ☠]] 19:36, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
:I plan on adding these soon. They supposedly originated on Game Freak's blog in one of the archived posts, though I wasn't able to find it; I read about it as a recent addition on the Japanese Pokémon Wiki, and I believe its been [http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/members/1970/30491/index6.html considered] before about adding these when SmearglePaints ({{user|Redstar}}) brought it up on the forums last year.

:There is a [http://hakuda2.web.fc2.com/ir/poke4/trust.html Japanese website] focusing on lost Pokémon which hosts that artwork and has further information about more Generation II lost Pokémon other than the three 'starters' and variations (namely 'Akua', 'Akueria', 'Netamon' and 'Elekingu') which were apparently seen in the [[Nintendo World|Nintendo Space World 1997]] demo but had only their names shown. The Japanese Pokémon Wiki also had these and more variations which none of the other sources mention, though I don't know of the validity. I uploaded the Japanese Pokémon Blue artwork because of some of the ambiguous designs, I don't know if they should count though. --[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] 20:58, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

::The recent images added are fan drawings, not official artwork of any kind. As such they should be removed. [[User:Slowpokeisgod|Slowpokeisgod]] 02:31, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
:::Oh ok, is that right? I'm wondering then where the author ([http://hakuda2.web.fc2.com/ir/poke4/trust.html ボツポケモン応援隊]) originally got the concept from. I know of some [http://bbs.tgbus.com/viewthread.php?action=printable&tid=1932117 sprites of them] but I'm unsure of their legitimacy. I heard that these Pokémon were shown on Game Freak's website but I haven't been able to find an archived version of the original page yet. --[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] 13:33, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
::::The sprite sheet is fully legitimate. I'd have to ask my friend the exact place it was found, which provided information on when they were secured, but I'd say there's enough sources to indicate this as a legitimate find. [[User:Slowpokeisgod|Slowpokeisgod]] 08:07, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

== Pocket Monsters Blue designs ==

"Near the bottom right is a Pokémon face, possibly based on Nidorino." It looks like Pidgeotto to me--[[User:SamuStar|SamuStar]] 18:35, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
:Not that one...the one to the left and up. '''[[User:LimeGreenCharizard|LimeGreen]]''[[User talk:LimeGreenCharizard|Charizard]]'''''[[Special:Contributions/LimeGreenCharizard|♂]] 19:57, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
Now I see, thank you. At first it looked like Venomoth to me, but it's surely Nidorino (or at least Nidoran♂) --[[User:SamuStar|SamuStar]] 20:15, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

== Some early designs ==

Early artwork on the pocket monsters cardass trading cards page shows a pikachu with a white belly and large execute with small ones the designs are the same as what they looked like in there red blue and green sprites so i think they should be on this page because the kakuna and rhyhorn with the same story are on there. Also there is a graveler with golden fingures on that page too.
[[User:Kybett98|Kybett98]] 04:45, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
:Someone should probably add the Carddass Charmander and the early back sprites for him, since the card shows his now-unexistant ridges down his back.[[User:Mefredbob|Mefredbob]] 09:41, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
Oh yes i never noticed him i saw that the ones i requested where added but have now been removed why? {{unsigned|Kybett98}}

== Unnamed Turtle ==

I think the unnamed turtle could be a Pokémon with no roots in any other Pokémon, meaning it was originally going to be a seperate Pokémon but was completely scrapped, and perhaps it was related to Kurusu. Can anyone shoot me down with fact?
[[User:Shinyzubat123|Shinyzubat123]] 21:30, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

== Even more designs ==

Recently, this year [http://bbs.tgbus.com/viewthread.php?action=printable&tid=1932117 users on TGBUS] revealed a few more designs, and annotated some of the existing ones in English e.g. "The inside of a hotel. You can see a device for healing your Pokémon inside". I've seen the former sprites (below) on 2chan, but was unsure of its legitimacy, since its marked December 1997. It would be most appreciated if someone could translate it. I have heard that Nyosuka and others were mentioned once on Gamefreak's official Japanese website, but I can't find the original page and I'm unsure if images of them were ever officially revealed. Sorry, if that's a lot to ask for though.
*[http://17woo.tgbusdata.cn/month_1101/11011600533674699a45d777f6.jpg Sprites]
*[http://17woo.tgbusdata.cn/month_1101/11011600397a98e2b81ee3b0b7.jpg Kabīn] --[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] 13:22, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
:The sprite list featuring the early designs for the Poliwhirl, Weedle and Dratini lines are indeed official. A friend of mine discovered them several months ago on a blog by someone who salvaged them back in 1999. My friend also has an English translation for the text seen within the image. [[User:Slowpokeisgod|Slowpokeisgod]] 06:26, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
::Do you mean this [http://fuckyeahbetapokemonart.tumblr.com/page/1 blog]? I came across it later last Wednesday when doing an image search of the artwork. I once saw the images on 2chan, but I thought they were probably fake and confused them with the fan artwork on [http://hakuda2.web.fc2.com/ir/poke4/trust.html The Lost Pokémon]. The [http://wiki.xn--rckteqa2e.com/wiki/%E6%B2%A1%E3%83%9D%E3%82%B1%E3%83%A2%E3%83%B3%E3%81%AE%E4%B8%80%E8%A6%A7 Japanese Pokémon Wiki] seems to reaffirm information about them originating from Game Freak's website as well. I actually posted for a translation request on [http://jul.rustedlogic.net/thread.php?id=11437&page=15#375860 Jul] last October but never got anything back. That's great to hear that your friend took the time to translate it! Do you have a link to the translated version? --[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] 07:05, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
:::Yes, that blog is run by the same friend who discovered the sheet. The Lost Pokemon site (an affiliate of the RCB site and a correspondence of mine) had info on the sprites for awhile and we're actively looking for them. Because of them I went on the chase, but my friend was able to turn them up herself after I had given up. The Lost Pokemon then discovered themselves just a few weeks or months afterwards, so they get credit for spreading it on the Japanese side of things.

:::I've just had my friend provide the translation. Find it [http://fuckyeahbetapokemonart.tumblr.com/post/12592876977/wimscoot-piratekingatomsk here]. [[User:Slowpokeisgod|Slowpokeisgod]] 08:07, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
::::Thank you and wimscoot so much for this! I've gathered some thoughts on why it might say "Pokémon 2" even though the designs don't seem to belong to [[Generation II]] but I realize that here isn't a good place to speculate about this. What is your username on Bulbagarden Forums? (I'm Torchickens) I also apologize for the relatively late reply. --[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] 17:31, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

== Stunfisk ==

Beta Version from Stunfisk [http://pokemonblackandwhite.net/?p=4142]??? --Altruis 17:10, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
:That was from the Nintendo Dream interview, and it is most likely true, so it should be added. [[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']][[Latios (Pokémon)| Δ ]] 17:46, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

==Game-on Exhibition==
It may be old news, but for those asking for references, I took pictures from this long-running exhibition called Game On. It had some concept works on some game franchises and Pokémon was one of them. [http://www.barbican.org.uk/bie/exhibitions/game-on Check here for info on the expo.] There were some Ruby/Sapphire sketches there, such as the Torchic with floppy ears [http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g255/sfirah/DSC01532.jpg Torchic with floppy ears], the Treecko sketches [http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g255/sfirah/DSC01528.jpg (maybe a little clearer here)] and [http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g255/sfirah/DSC01529.jpg the Blaziken/Latias one]. There were also this [http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g255/sfirah/DSC01530.jpg other sketch of a floppy-eared Torchic] and this [http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g255/sfirah/DSC01533.jpg early Groudon sketch]. [[User:KurowaSan|KurowaSan]] 03:21, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

:I went to the expo again today and tried to get some better photos of the art. I'll try to upload them to Bulbagaren Archives and add them to the articles. [[User:KurowaSan|KurowaSan]] 02:28, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
:: Where is this geographically?[[User:Jdrawer|Jdrawer]] 02:38, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
:::Those are of most interest. If it happens to be there tomorrow do you plan to try to take a picture of all Pokemon sketches that you can? Also nice to hear you took more photos today. The beta Treecko looked like it had a bit of a Grovyle look to it on the arms. Salamence didn't look much different. Wonder why Torchic had the most redos, a floppy eared, then chubby floppy ears, interesting. [[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen Fennec]] 03:34, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
::::It goes around the world since 2002, always adding some new stuff to it. Right now, the expo is in Brasilia, Brazil.
I uploaded the pictures to Bulbagarden Archives. Torchic's [[http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/File:Torchic_Beta.jpg]] and Latiken's [[http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/File:Latias_Blaziken.jpg]] were added to the articles already, substituting the old ones. Treecko's [[http://archives.bulbagarden.net/wiki/File:Treecko_Beta.jpg]] (it wouldn't let me substitute the old one, so I just uploaded it separately and didn't change the article), Groudon's [[http://archives.bulbagarden.net/wiki/File:Groudon_Beta.jpg]] and Torchic's other concept art [[http://archives.bulbagarden.net/wiki/File:Torchic_Beta2.jpg]] were only uploaded, but not added to any of the articles. Someone please do it for me. xD [[User:KurowaSan|KurowaSan]] 03:51, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
: Excellent then. As for replacing the old images, I can see doing so for the Torchic but not the others at the moment. The new Torchic image you uploaded is great though since it is closer and higher quality, thanks for uploading the image. :) [[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen Fennec]] 03:54, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
::Ah as for the Treecko image, click on it, the click description page under the image which is in bold. Log in on the archives if not already and scroll down, click on upload new version of this file. [[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen Fennec]] 03:59, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
:::Thanks. I did that for the Treecko picture, but it said it had some trouble cause the old picture is a png file and the new one is a jpg. Even after I tried converting the new pic to png, it wouldn't accept. (Nevermind, it worked now. lol) [[User:KurowaSan|KurowaSan]] 04:09, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
::::I see the Groundon image has been uploaded but where would the image go? Prototype or Minor Alterations? [[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen Fennec]] 01:01, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
:::::I believe "Minor alterations" would be more accurate, as it basically remained the same, except for those marks it shares with Kyogre and Rayquaza (at least that's the only thing I noticed). [[User:KurowaSan|KurowaSan]] 01:19, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

== More designs ==

I found [http://fuckyeahbetapokemonart.tumblr.com/ this site] and it appears to have lots of legit designs that we're missing around here, despite being mixed up with fanart and fakes. But are the apparently legit ones really legit? Please discuss these findings. [[User:Pokemon lover|Sato]][[User talk:Pokemon lover|Mew]] 16:41, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

:Hehe, I've heard of this. There's this deviantArt group called TheLostPokemon, which is for the Pokemon in this article. The stuff's pretty legit (though I'd still want to check out the blog). A lot of the members of the group are artists, so their artwork is probably on the blog. [[User:Jdrawer|Jdrawer]] 22:59, 5 March 2012 (UTC)
::I run the dA group while my friend runs the tumblr blog. I can assure you that any fanwork is stated to be such while actual concept/design artwork is legit. [[User:Slowpokeisgod|Slowpokeisgod]] 21:47, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

== Unused girl on boxes? ==

The text about [[Prototype Pokémon and characters#Unreleased characters|this girl]] states "The image was shown on the boxes for the games" referring to the one that only her back is shown. I've checked {{tt|the Japanese box|the only one}} of Pokémon Green and didn't see the picture. Is this statement false? [[User:Duke R|'''|) u |( e''']] [[User talk:Duke R|'''®''']] 05:10, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
:[http://www.gamefaqs.com/gameboy/367023-pokemon-red-version/images/box-68474 Apparently] so (I don't own the Japanese games, but I plan on getting them), and I still have all the English games from long ago, but unfortunately without any box inserts. According to the box data on GameFAQs, the artwork doesn't appear on the back of Japanese Blue or Yellow (Pocket Monsters Pikachu) either. Perhaps the user who added it was referring to the instruction booklet? It might be worth noting that there was an [http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/5541/1290018520523.jpg official strategy guide] for {{2v2|Red|Green}} featuring the artwork. It's also interesting how this guidebook credits Ape Inc, the predecessor of Creatures Inc. --[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] 00:27, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

==fluffy torchic==
Am I the only one who instantly thought of Vullaby after seeing the fluffy torchic in the eggshell?[[User:Auragirl|Auragirl]] 04:08, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

== The guy who looks like a gymleader ==

In the article it says he was probably a dark gymleader but to me he looks more like a ground or rock user because tyranitar is ground as well,the turtle looks like a rock type and the hitmontop thing has a creamy dirt color plus he is wearing a turban with a gemSTONE does anyone agree?And he might of been the original concept for the first gym leader since he has only 3 pokemon that again to me seem like ground thus continueing rock(ground) type first gym.[[User:VENUS,MEGA,SCEPT,TORTE,SERP|VENUS,MEGA,SCEPT,TORTE,SERP]] 19:03, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
forget the first gym thing.[[User:VENUS,MEGA,SCEPT,TORTE,SERP|VENUS,MEGA,SCEPT,TORTE,SERP]] 18:30, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
: Surely you meant [[Tyranitar]] is Rock/Dark-type. Anyways, it's only speculation that he's Dark-type Gym Leader (he could just have been a regular trainer), but his clothes and hair style refer to dark. Also, he most likely was not the first Gym Leader as most Gym Leaders encountered first have two Pokemon (only Roark has three). It could also be noted that some Gym Leaders have Pokémon that are not of their speciality type (namely [[Volkner]] and [[Cilan]], [[Chili]] and [[Cress]]) and Rock-type specialists other than Roark generally have very little in their appearance to connect with their speciality type, plus in final product all Johto Gyms specialized in types that were not present in Kanto, at which time it would've been odd to use Gyms that "had been" there before (like Rock or Ground Gyms). I also can't picture the polypod Pokemon as a Rock-type. [[User:Ariano|Ariano]] 12:21, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

== Thundurus and Tornadus color change ==

It's stated Troh's and Sawk's horns were removed because Thundurus and Tornadus were blue and red, but they had later there color changed. So, why don't they get a place on this page? Maybe they can share there column with Troh and Sawk... [[User:Nickvang|Nickvang]] ([[User talk:Nickvang|talk]]) 12:33, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

== Cries ==

I attempted to post this as a comment on the YouTube video, but of course the stupid piece of shit excuse for a website kept giving me an "error try again" without any explanation. I guess this works just as well here anyways:

I've researched these cries for a while now and I hate how everyone keeps saying MissingNo. 0x45 sounds like Crobat or Golbat. Of course it does, because it is an *exact* copy of Zubat's cry. I'm following the same conclusion as everyone else (I hope it really way Crobat), but no one ever seems to realize that it isn't just similar to Zubat, it's exact. This also applies to MissingNo. 0x89 being an *exact* copy of Dragonair.

P.S. My notes: http://pastebin.com/yCry6qce -- [[User:Stag019|Stag019]] ([[User talk:Stag019|talk]]) 19:42, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

== Shopkeeper? ==

Looking at the image I'm quite curious as to what the embryo thing is. Is it possibly a Pokemon or something? Also is it possible the creature in the cage to the left is an earlier version and possibly smaller version of Slowbro? ''[[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen]] [[User talk:Frozen Fennec|Fennec]]'' 18:57, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
:The embro thing does appear to be a Pokémon, but I don't know what though. The thing in the cage does appear to be a early version of Slowbro. I think it probably would be a good idea to wait for some more opinions about that though, or just add it. [[User:Lady Ariel|Lady Ariel]] ([[User talk:Lady Ariel|talk]]) 20:32, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
::I think I shall wait for a few more opinions before adding that Slowbro bit. Just to make sure it is possible that it might be an early version. ''[[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen]] [[User talk:Frozen Fennec|Fennec]]'' 20:39, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
:::I dunno about Slowbro but the 'embryo' is probably a small Water Pokémon. --[[User:Spriteit|Spriteit]] ([[User talk:Spriteit|talk]]) 01:38, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

== It seems that Kage No Mushi is a fake ==

[http://fuckyeahbetapokemonart.tumblr.com/post/47524002079/open-for-debate-removing-kage-no-mushi This Tumblr post] claims that the Pokémon may indeed be a fake made by one of the blog owner's friends. In fact, as a response to [http://fuckyeahbetapokemonart.tumblr.com/post/47524532246/hfc2x-answered-your-question-open-for-debate my answer], the owner said that Bulbapedia did take all the info on that Pokémon from that blog.
Is this correct? If so, we should remove it from the list right away. '''[[User:Hfc2x|hfc]][[User talk:Hfc2x|2X]]''' 06:57, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

Removed it from the list. --[[User:Relicant|Relicant]] ([[User talk:Relicant|talk]]) 16:58, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

== Kazeniga and Rokku ==

In this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YU7M5KAfYWA), there seems to be two Pokemon, (Kazeniga and Rokku) in the vein of Gorillaimo and Godzillante. Should we add them? [[User:Jdrawer|Jdrawer]] ([[User talk:Jdrawer|talk]]) 21:41, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

== Munna in Generation 1? ==

Okay, correct me if I'm wrong, but if I remember correctly, didn't an NPC near [[Rock Tunnel]] mention seeing a pink Pokémon with flowers on it in the cave? If they did, then that would mean {{p|Munna}}'s origin dates as far back as [[Generation I]]. If all of this is true, should I add it onto the page? I can also look for an image that details the Munna in the game. [[User:Pokedex493|Pokedex493]] ([[User talk:Pokedex493|talk]]) 19:21, 7 June 2013 (UTC)
:Correction, they were actually talking about the fact that there should be and I quote, 'a pink one with a floral pattern.' The link to the picture is [http://fuckyeahbetapokemonart.tumblr.com/image/12834082074]. I apologize for the profanity in the name. This is where I found the pic. [[User:Pokedex493|Pokedex493]] ([[User talk:Pokedex493|talk]]) 19:26, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

== Who is that bug pokemon? ==

Hello There. ''WHO'' IS that bug pokemon:
http://images.wikia.com/pokemon/images/9/9e/Unknown_bug_pokemon.png
--[[User:Cool Sam|Cool Sam]] ([[User talk:Cool Sam|talk]]) 16:55, 24 October 2013 (UTC)
:My first reaction is it looks like the old 'scrubbing bubbles' mascot used by Dow cleaning agent. --[[User:GARY-DOS|GARY-DOS]] ([[User talk:GARY-DOS|talk]]) 07:14, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

== Shopkeeper ==

Since the similarity to the sumo character from Quinty/Mendel Palace is noted, wouldn't it also be worth noting alongside that there is an unused sprite which appears in the Gen III games which is presumably[http://tcrf.net/Pok%C3%A9mon_Ruby_and_Sapphire#Unused_overworld_sprite] a redesign of a sprite of the same character? --[[User:GARY-DOS|GARY-DOS]] ([[User talk:GARY-DOS|talk]]) 18:55, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

== Split ==

Unused cries only belong in the development leftover articles. The designs of Pokémon and characters can be mentioned in the Development section of the game articles. [[User:SatoMew2|Sato]][[User talk:SatoMew2|Mew]] 23:44, 3 January 2015 (UTC)

== Kabiin ==

I remember, when I first saw this one in "A Man who Created Pokemon," I was certain that it was a playful reference to Kirby. But now I can't locate my copy of the book, so I don't know if there's a date on these thumbnail sketches that would disprove this theory (ie. if these are sketches from around 1989-1990, the Kirby reference is unlikely). Does anyone have any info to help, maybe have the book on hand to check? [[User:Umeko|梅子]][[User talk:Umeko|❀]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|✿]] 03:10, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
:I have the book too (the 'cards' cover and not the Pulseman cover). However, I unfortunately cannot find a date. I'm afraid. Here is [http://minus.com/i/XgRc7ydCX1Uh a scan] of the page. Additionally I thought it would be worth noting that on page 293 with the monster coming out of the capsule, the page says "Monster Capsule TM" ポータブルモンスターカプセル PCM-55R $198 00, I don't know if those people who did high resolution scans (from Blue Reflections?) of the concept art showed us that. [[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] ([[User talk:Chickasaurus|talk]]) 15:47, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

== Sources ==

Can we please have where we got the info added next to each of the designs. It's nice that we have all this early artwork, but it would be much better to clarify which is from books, which is from interviews, etc. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 10:09, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

== Should we add Mega Flygon? ==

Apparently they wanted Flygon to have a mega evolution, but they couldn't come up with a good one. [[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 19:44, 28 April 2016 (UTC)
:Where's your source on this?--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 02:37, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
::Well, I heard it on serebii months ago, and then just today, I was at the [[Flygon]] page and saw the same thing in the Trivia. It's also in [[Mega Evolution]]. [[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 02:48, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
:::Oh, I see. I guess it could be added.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 03:01, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
::::I'd do it myself, but I'm not sure how to make it (though I may be able to figure that out. BTW, should it get a new section? Or use one of the current ones? [[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 03:57, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

== Interesting Gen II finds ==

Recently I've found some possibly important info, if poorly translated on Gen II unused Pokémon seemingly from the spaceworld demo. Some are just alternate names for know Pokémon, but some like Animon and Ikari(Anchor?) seem to be unused, should we add this? Links:[https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&u=http://hakuda2.web.fc2.com/ir/poke4/botu6.html&usg=ALkJrhiNG-K5r_b7o4kFtVyQ6i4AbBNj5A 1],[https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&hl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.geocities.jp%2Fpcakatsuki%2Fpokemonlab%2Fpm.html 2] [[User:Shadowsonic5000|Shadowsonic5000]] ([[User talk:Shadowsonic5000|talk]]) 01:05, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

== resemblance ==
I would like to point out a few things that I noticed:
1. The unused final evolution of weedle looks like the gen 1 bug type party sprite.

2. Eggshell torchic reminded me of vullaby.

3. Am I the only one who thinks that the turtle might be torkoal?
--[[User:Wizardfox|Wizardfox]] ([[User talk:Wizardfox|talk]]) 02:50, 14 January 2017 (UTC)

== Obscure Honōguma image — Legitimacy? ==
In [https://twitter.com/Katsu_Nagao/status/388880608748773376 a 2013 tweet], a Twitter user called Katsu Nagao posted an alleged screenshot of Honōguma and a Metapod (but red/orange instead of green) from Next Generation World Hobby Fair on January 1998. Catstorm26 noticed this and posted it about it on Twitter/forums recently. More information ([http://www.serebiiforums.com/showthread.php?105571-Official-GSC-Programming-amp-Beta-Glitch-Thread&p=18343949#post18343949 1], [http://forums.glitchcity.info/index.php?topic=7343.msg204405#msg204405 2]). Katsu Nagao claimed it to be real and it seems rather convincing, but is it convincing enough to add to the page? --[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] ([[User talk:Chickasaurus|talk]]) 21:53, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

== Girafarig and Happa sprites ==

https://tcrf.net/images/5/5e/PkmnGS-EarlyBattle2.jpg

This image was taken from [https://youtu.be/-LPNOrsseVk?t=1m46s a 1998 video featuring footage of the Spaceworld 1997 demo of Gold and Silver]. Girafarig's original design is shown in this screenshot, as is Happa's back sprite. Unlike the [https://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/b/b9/Alpha_happa.png sketch shown in the article], it looks like Chikorita's design was actually finalized by this point in development; the only difference being that its legs are fully visible in its back sprite in the demo, whereas they are cropped out in the final game. --[[User:CartmanKusanagi|CartmanKusanagi]] ([[User talk:CartmanKusanagi|talk]]) 06:52, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
:The sketch is just a fanart drawn from memory, so it seems only natural that it differs from the real thing. To me, this in-game screencap confirms that Happa was already a fully-realized "Chikorita" at that point, design-wise at least. Therefore, it should be treated as a beta name, rather than an "unreleased design", in my opinion. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 11:45, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
::I've added screenshots for Beta Girafarig and Hoppip, both from the same footage at SpaceWorld 1997. I will remove the section on this page for 'Happa' as clearly Chikorita was a finalised design by this point. It strikes me that both the sketches for Beta Marill and Beta Qwilfish are highly likely to be misremembered fan interpretations, and that both of these designs could well have been finalised by 1997. However the longevity of these sketches probably earns them the right to remain, at least until screenshots surface proving otherwise. ''[[User:Sui|'''Sui''']][[User talk:Sui|'''Scorpio''']]'' 12:04, 28 October 2017 (UTC)
:::Considering that Chikorita/Happa's early artwork still displays demonstrable differences from its final appearance (yellow eyes and neck buds, an indistinct blob-like body with multiple small 'legs'), it's been moved to the 'Minor alterations' section in subsequent revisions. The artwork should also be kept as long as the Kurusu/Honoguma/Marill/Qwilfish artwork is kept, as they all clearly came from the same source. [[User:Jennyjams|Jennyjams]] ([[User talk:Jennyjams|talk]]) 16:07, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
::::Disregard the above, I misunderstood something. The sketches are apparently fan recreations of Pokemon seen in the demo, which means that the Chikorita sketch was likely a recreation/misremembering of the final sprite. [[User:Jennyjams|Jennyjams]] ([[User talk:Jennyjams|talk]]) 16:17, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
::::: I don't know why it's now in Altered Designs, given the design in that screenshot looks almost identical to this one [[Image:Spr b 2g 152.png]]. Maybe this page needs an 'Altered Names' section specifically? ''[[User:Sui|'''Sui''']][[User talk:Sui|'''Scorpio''']]'' 07:50, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
::::::Yes, I agree but I don't think there should be a section called "Altered Names". For now, I've redirected Happa to [[Pokémon Gold and Silver beta]] because I think it should be mentioned there as a pre-release name. I haven't actually added it to the page because I'm no expert on this and there appears to be more pre-release names that I'm not aware of (for example, see Nidoking's pre-release name, Maiko, under the "Satoshi Tajiri manga designs" discussion below). --[[User:Wowy|'''Wowy''']][[User talk:Wowy|'''(토크)''']] 08:44, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

== Satoshi Tajiri manga designs ==

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DdWog9QVMAAWe2e.jpg --'''[[User:Pokelova|Poke]][[User talk:Pokelova|lova]]''' 03:09, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

: It looks like there are even more here, but the Japanese text is really small so it's hard to read.
https://twitter.com/kyle_toom/status/997019544299294720 --[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] ([[User talk:Chickasaurus|talk]]) 15:34, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

Here's what the list of names says:
{|
| ２１　ビリリダマ (Voltorb)
|-
| ２２　ベロリンガ (Lickitung)
|-
| ２３　コイル　(Magnemite)
|-
| ２４　カクタス (Cactus)*
|-
| ２５　ユンゲラー (Kadabra)
|-
| ２６　スリーパー (Hypno)
|-
| ２７　マイコー・オス (Maiko♂ (This is Nidoking's beta name [https://tcrf.net/File:PokemonRB-GCCXProtoScreens.png]))
|-
| ２８　ブー (Boo)*
|-
| ２９　バルンダ（Ａ）(Blunder (A))*
|-
| ３０　ストライク(Scyther)
|-
|  
|-
| ３１　ディグダ (Diglett)
|}[[User:Mefredbob|Mefredbob]] ([[User talk:Mefredbob|talk]]) 22:11, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

Worth noting that this page also notes the beta name of Blastoise vs. Staryu (as Karabajio vs. Mimii) that is listed in this image.

Still wonder exactly what Gyaoon is, Japanese commenters seem equally confused. However, Farfetch'd seems to be clearly キクパーン (kikupaan) to them (although I confess I can't read the first kana to save my life, nor pull literally any meaning out of that either). Apologies if I've messed up the formatting.

[[User:Breh|Breh]] ([[User talk:Breh|talk]]) 05:39, 15 June 2018 (UTC)

==Alleged unused Pokémon we only know the name of==
The Japanese Pokémon Wiki has had these listed for quite a long time (source: https://wiki.ポケモン.com/wiki/没ポケモンの一覧 relevant section: "名前のみで未発表になったポケモン"), and I think (though I'm not exactly sure), they may have been talked about in old accounts of the Space World 1997 demo, but given the Mandella effect it may be risky to add them, especially Netamon which is almost a typo of Metamon (Ditto).

These included: Aqua, Eleking, Netamon and allegedly shown in a video during the demo explaining new features of the Pokédex: Aquaria, Animon, Ikari.

[https://tcrf.net/Prerelease:Pok%C3%A9mon_Gold_and_Silver#Pok%C3%A9mon The Cutting Room Floor article]

Also on the subject of unused Pokémon with no images from Generation I, [https://twitter.com/ikiro_pkmn/status/996923420230148096 this tweet] (second image) shows the handwritten names of many Pokémon in the poll, but sometimes we have no way of linking them with an existing Pokémon (or known unused Pokémon) or the handwriting may be hard to read. --[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] ([[User talk:Chickasaurus|talk]]) 21:07, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

== Suggestions ==

-Add the other unused Pokemon from the Satoshi TaJiri manga and use higher quality images for the ones already on the page. This includes: A Pokemon that looks like a bird from Kirby, a Pokemon that looks like a Shy Guy from Mario, a Kanto Pokemon that appears to be similar to Tyranitar, and a Pokemon that is a white ball.

-There is also an early version of Combee in that manga.

-There is a higher quality image of the unused Kanto elliphant Pokemon.

-There is a higher quality image of the unused Pokemon that looks similar to Seel.

-Remove the image of Tirtouga, there is no reason to think why that Pokemon has anything to do with the unused Pokemon it is being compared to.

-Take the unused Pokemon that are referred to as "early versions of Gengar & Nidorino" out of the the altered Pokemon section and put them in the unreleased Pokemon section, there is no reason to assume they are related to Gengar & Nidorino.

-Take out the word "designs", these are unused Pokemon, not unused "Pokemon designs".
--[[User:Horsecooker|Horsecooker]] ([[User talk:Horsecooker|talk]]) 20:31, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

== Space World demo leak ==

https://nintendosoup.com/pokemon-golds-space-world-1997-demo-has-been-leaked/ --'''[[User:Pokelova|Poke]][[User talk:Pokelova|lova]]''' 11:03, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

== Pokémon Gold Design Links ==

So I found out some used designs on plans in said game through this link http://comicbook.com/gaming/2018/05/31/pokemon-gold-demo-rom-leak-new-evolutions/ . Can we add them in on the page with approval of course?--[[User:Jacob9594|Jacob Kogan]] ([[User talk:Jacob9594|talk]]) 15:45, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
:We aren't sure if the leak is legitimate. It could be a hoax to hype up the nostalgia train from the recent pre-RG reveals.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 05:25, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
::Are you serious? Do you really think someone spent the time and effort to build a ROM that isn't based off of the Gold ROM, created 100 new Pokemon, added new items and removed features like breeding, changed base stats, and then made the game basically unplayable without the debug menu so they could "hype up the nostalgia train"? Are you an idiot?--[[User:Nintenfreak|Nintenfreak]] ([[User talk:Nintenfreak|talk]]) 06:08, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
:::In my opinion, it's too much of a coincidence that it comes a month (weeks?) after the RG stuff. And there are such things as hoaxers putting in the utmost effort to make something appear legitimate.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 06:11, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
:::Also, it's a demo/prototype, making it unplayable would help make it seem legitimate.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 06:12, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
::::So, it really shouldn't need saying, but it really deserves it right now: Let's ''not'' get into slinging insults, 'kay?
::::The things you mention are persuasive, Nintenfreak, but at least for a while, we'd like to give it a bit of time to see how things look when people have had more than just a few dozen hours to look at it. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 06:16, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

== Honoguma and Kurusu ==

The images used for Honoguma and Kurusu are not official art- they are fan recreations ([http://www.glitterberri.com/pokemon-gold-silver/spaceworld-97-demo/]). Should they be removed? --[[User:Celadonkey|Celadonkey]] 18:57, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
:The images for early Marill, Girafarig, and Ledyba are fan created as well. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celadonkey]] 19:03, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
::As far as Glitterberri is concerned, seems all the images were recreated shortly after the SpaceWorld 1997 event. Given they have font all over them (as does the early Silver fan created art), it seems more than likely they were recreated to display in a gaming magazine at the time. ''[[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen]] [[User talk:Frozen Fennec|Fennec]]'' 03:11, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
:::Ah, that makes more sense. Thank you. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celadonkey]] 23:34, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
::::The fan art was made for someone's personal website, just fyi. https://twitter.com/dmrn28/status/1006084888712208384 [[User:Yoriven|Yoriven]] ([[User talk:Yoriven|talk]]) 11:56, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

== Leaked Pokémon from Spaceworld Demo of Pokémon Gold/Silver. ==

So just recently, the 1997 Spaceworld demo for Pokémon Gold & Silver has just resurfaced on the Internet, and it turns out that there was a BUNCH of Pokémon that have not been used or have been heavily altered in the final release. Considering that there is about a hundred of these unused/altered Pokémon, how should we even list them on here? [[User:SquirtleLover1999|SquirtleLover1999]] ([[User talk:SquirtleLover1999|talk]]) 07:52, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
:We are aware and is being discussed above.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 08:09, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
::I mean, unless it is proven to not be fake it shouldn't be added, right? [[User:ExLight|ExLight]] ([[User talk:ExLight|talk]]) 19:53, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
:::Exactly.

:::Adding to the discussion, though. This link was posted in the Bulbapedia discord: [https://iimarckus.org/spaceworld/]

:::Obviously it's not a source that would confirm something, but the fact that there was unused data in Gold and Silver that matches the Spaceworld leaked demo ''that was not noticed until after the demo leaked'' is certainly interesting. It's not my call, though, we need to wait for staff to reach a decision regarding the demo until anything is treated as fact. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celadonkey]] 23:34, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
::::I, personally, believe this is fake. There are some discrepancies in the demo contents with some info (such as some of Kouichi Hiwasa's account to Glitterberri) as well as some questionable sprites in it. The staff is probably divided too, but I wonder if it is really possible to reach a veredict without an official pronouncement by GF or Nintendo. [[User:ExLight|ExLight]] ([[User talk:ExLight|talk]]) 00:54, 3 June 2018 (UTC)
:::::Reading through Hiwasa's account, it mostly seems to match up, but I digress; my opinion isn't really important for Bulbapedia's purposes. You do bring up an interesting point with "I wonder if it is really possible to reach a verdict without an official pronouncement by GF or Nintendo". I highly, highly doubt that anyone from GF will ever even acknowledge the fact that this supposed demo version is out there, let alone confirm or refute its authenticity. The closest thing to an acknowledgement from a GF employee I know of is [https://twitter.com/JamesTurner_42/status/1002193807503376384 James Turner saying that it was the first he had heard of the demo]. Staff knows the parameters for confirming something without a reasonable doubt though, and I have confidence that they know how to treat this demo. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celadonkey]] 01:14, 3 June 2018 (UTC)
::::::Didn't see the discussion here, and I didn't know it was a... divisive topic to put it simply. And judging by what they are saying here, it's almost impossible to prove unless someone that played the demo 21 years ago says anything or an ex-GF member confirms it. Guess I shouldn't have said anything at the GS beta page. --[[User:Prog rocker|Prog rocker]] ([[User talk:Prog rocker|talk]]) 02:20, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
:::::::I don't thinking trusting the memory from someone who played it 21 years ago is somewhat reliable. The only way to nail it down would be GF or Nintendo confirming it. [[User:ExLight|ExLight]] ([[User talk:ExLight|talk]]) 03:09, 8 June 2018 (UTC)
:::::::: What about the memory of multiple people who played it 21 years ago? [[User:Yoriven|Yoriven]] ([[User talk:Yoriven|talk]]) 20:04, 15 June 2018 (UTC)

== The Game Review Magazine ==

As a question, I was wondering why the details of the Game Review Magazine are current on the article. While I can understand Tyranitar due to being recycled for the games, [http://dogasu.bulbagarden.net/features/sugimori_kens_works.html the designs were just created on the fly for a topic in the magazine]. Would it be ok to remove everything except for Tyranitar when the article is unlocked? --[[User:Super goku|Super goku]] ([[User talk:Super goku|talk]]) 18:13, 10 June 2018 (UTC)
:Eh, even if they were just made as a what if scenario, they were still drawn. So I think it should stay.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 04:32, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

== Another discussion about Beta Pokemon Gold ==

I think it's already been mentioned that the leak might have been a hoax. Now that we've "given it a bit of time" and it's been more than "a few dozen hours", can someone add the new leaks to the page? [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 20:02, 19 July 2018 (UTC)
:I think that when information is finished on userspace pages, it would be able to be moved to the mainspace. However, different users have different ideas on how this would look— [[User:Celadonkey/Spaceworld|mine]] and [[User:Abcboy/Pokémon Gold and Silver demo/Pokémon|Abcboy's]] are pretty different, for example.

:That being said, though, I think that if we were able to add this kind of stuff to the mainspace, even if it's not fully complete yet, it would be completed quicker, and there would be more discussion on how to format it and such. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celadonkey]] 21:11, 19 July 2018 (UTC)
::The main focus should be fleshing out the userpages first. Do '''NOT''' add the leak Pokémon on this article. The staff will discuss how to go about putting the leak info on the mainspace.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 03:34, 20 July 2018 (UTC)
:::I'm pretty sure that the supposed leak was faked. As such, we probably shouldn't mainspace the information within.[[User:Jdrawer|Jdrawer]] ([[User talk:Jdrawer|talk]]) 03:52, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
::::As far as I've heard there hasn't been any recent developments about it. What makes you think that? I'm not trying to argue, just trying to hear your thoughts. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celadonkey]] 17:28, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

This analysis seems to solidify the existence of two beta GSC pokemon, particularly Kotora and Raitora.: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lq971cWWzq8&t=82s
--[[User:Flashlight237|Flashlight237]] ([[User talk:Flashlight237|talk]]) 18:03, 29 August 2018 (UTC)
:Any update on the staff discussion? Work on the pages seems to be rather disorganized at the moment- as well as pretty dead. [[User:Yoriven|Yoriven]] ([[User talk:Yoriven|talk]]) 21:59, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
::New comments go at the bottom of the discussion. Have patience, there are other things taking priority at the moment. Users should be focusing on filling out the userpages.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 02:56, 1 September 2018 (UTC)

== Kabiin, Buhi and Papyo are not from Capumon ==

These three monsters come from a different document and can't be positively dated. Anyways the word "Pokémon" appears on their storyboards along with GameFreak's final logo (which first appeared in Pulseman) at least confirming that they weren't featured in the 1990 pitch. I propose to separate them from the Capumon group.[[User:Qbertpo|Qbertpo]] ([[User talk:Qbertpo|talk]]) 10:51, 24 September 2018 (UTC)

== Add the Four "MissingNo." That were Identified ==

I suggest adding the four MissingNo. that have been identified recently. I know that we must not acknowledge the spaceworld leak. [https://helixchamber.com/2018/08/06/game-center-cx-and-you/ Source.] {{unsigned|Kingdedede}}

== The Unused Female Character ==
The unused female character has now appeared in an actual Pokémon game as Green. I propose we create a new page for this character, as it seems to be strongly indicated that she is not the same character as Leaf (though Leaf is partially based on the character, they are not the same). --[[User:LavaringX|LavaringX]] ([[User talk:LavaringX|talk]]) 05:58, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

== NHK Broadcast revealed scrapped Pokemon "Omega" and early Gyarados design. ==
Helix Chamber has confirmed it to be real as well;
https://twitter.com/benisboy/status/1075154504792731648 {{unsigned|Pichu Madman26}}
:Interesting. I'd say it's worth adding. That Gyarados looks really cool, by the way. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celadonkey]] 18:14, 22 December 2018 (UTC)

== Pokemon GS Beta and Pokemon Green Prototype Data ==
Okay, so the issue has been up for months now of whether the Pokemon GS Spaceworld demo is real. Various pieces of evidence have been brought up, from leftover assets to discoveries of 4 MissingNo, not only proving the existence of unseen beta Pokemon, but two of them matching suspiciously with Kotora and Raitora [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lq971cWWzq8&t=15s]. Many things showed favor of this thing being legit, and nothing giving much against it, that is until, the Pokemon Green leaked assets. Due to being poorly presented, many took it as fake, and questioned the overall authenticity of Helix Chamber. But as of today, scans of a Famitsu magazine have been made public. Various concept arts and better quality images of sprites have been revealed. But what really drew my attention was this tweet [https://twitter.com/helixchamber/status/1126145212785594375]. If the proto assets were fake, how would the faker get these right? They had no way of knowing, unless it was made by someone at Pokemon, although that would only make it seem more authentic. This is definite evidence of the assets being real, poorly revealed, but real. Knowing this, even more authenticity is added to the Pokemon GS demo being real. This is because various baby Pokemon and the Kotora and Raitora line are found in the assets and are seen in the Spaceworld demo. I really think a decision needs to be made, because more and more evidence is piling up to the Spaceworld Demo and now the Proto-Green Assets, and more and more questions will rise if the staff at Bulbapedia don't put their foot down on what these are. I understand being wary to add info about the Proto-Green Assets, but Spaceworld has had months of waiting, just to be proven beyond reasonable doubt as real. At this point these should be declared on Bulbapedia as real, or as fake, and have that as Bulbapedia's final decision on the matter. [[User:LeapingRiolu|LeapingRiolu]] ([[User talk:LeapingRiolu|talk]]) 04:04, 9 May 2019 (UTC)
:Helix Chamber wasn’t the one who released the Spaceworld rom, so the RG incident shouldn’t have affected its already proven without a doubt veracity. Unfortunately, for some people, it has. But yes, I agree. Both prototypes are 100% real. Frankly Spaceworld should have been added several months ago. I feel like Spaceworld also has enough information to warrant much more than just a few additions on this page, and should be expanded to its own pages. Let’s hope we get a full rom of an RG prototype someday, but for now it should go on this page and/or the Pokémon Red and Green beta page. --[[User:Celadonkey|celadonk]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 11:42, 9 May 2019 (UTC)
::I don't think a small snippet from Famitsu, and one where we already know most of the information, proves that the RG leak is "100% real". Unless Famitsu or any other official/credible source releases more RG beta content, the RG leak could very well be 100% fake. As for spaceworld, still no official/credible source for that, so I'm still doubtful on that. Yes, it's highly unlikely we'll get official sources for it, and that's just too bad. But for things like beta content, we can really only trust the official sources and not some "leak" from some "anonymous" source.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 13:53, 9 May 2019 (UTC)
:::A lot of the sprites from the Famitsu magazine and the RG asset leak are identical. Some of these sprites were never seen before. Unless whoever sent Helix Chamber has a time machine, this is impossible. Spaceworld has already been confirmed on multiple fronts to be real by experts, and was also confirmed by the RG assets. To be blunt, at this point, claiming either is fake is just denial. It’s hurting the integrity of the wiki to ignore such important information, quite honestly. --[[User:Celadonkey|celadonk]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 18:50, 9 May 2019 (UTC)
:::Oh, and in case more than trainer sprites were needed, which should prove it without a doubt, two names from the RG assets that AFAIK have not appeared before, Ichirou and Yuuichi, appeared in the Famitsu scan. --[[User:Celadonkey|celadonk]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 19:07, 9 May 2019 (UTC)
::::There's a reason these things are anonymous. We have no idea how anyone would have gotten their hands on these pieces of Pokemon history. Pokemon has confirmed that they look back at old concepts and such for inspiration, so the only way I see it getting out is blatant theft. And if the person revealing the Beta and Assets did give their name, they'd more than likely lose their job and suffer legal consequences. [[User:LeapingRiolu|LeapingRiolu]] ([[User talk:LeapingRiolu|talk]]) 21:15, 9 May 2019 (UTC)
:::::Regardless of anonymity, both these leaks are real. And yes, I suppose that "it's highly unlikely we'll get official sources for it," but at this point, we shouldn't need Gamefreak to magically come down from the sky and spoonfeed us the truth. Anyone can tell from looking at these leaks, especially the RG assets, that they're real, without any room for doubt. Unless, again, Helix Chamber has a time travel machine. This is more than just a "small snippet"; this is cold, hard evidence that proves the veracity of both. Let's not let our personal opinions hurt Bulbapedia. --[[User:Celadonkey|celadonk]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 18:33, 11 May 2019 (UTC)
::::::I have to agree, there's no doubt the leaks are legit by this point. Waiting for confirmation from official sources or Famitsu is asinine, game companies rarely if ever confirm the veracity on such leaks. It seems to me that this place is just inexperienced at dealing with beta leaks. The proof brought up already proves they're not fake; even The Cutting Room Floor, which ''does'' have experience at the subject of leaks, prototypes and scrapped content, has accepted them as legit. Stop being so headstrong in the face of proof. [[User:Ericss|Ericss]] ([[User talk:Ericss|talk]]) 06:50, 25 May 2019 (UTC)

== Admins -- is Gen 5 betamon info all rumors? ==

Hey admins, how are ya. I made this Bulbapedia account just to write this post.

I've got a YouTube channel that primarily focuses on beta Pokemon content, with an emphasis on having a source for everything. I'm working on Gen 5 now, and I was looking at Bulbapedia's unused Pokemon page. It seems that information regarding the beta of the Hydreigon family, Sawk, Throh, Tornadus, Thundurus, and Stunfisk is all credited to a Nintendo Dream interview with Ken Sugimori. But I've spent about 12 hours over the past couple days searching for that interview, or even a volume number that interview is meant to be contained in. I even googled around in Japanese. Couldn't find a thing. I asked my 22,000 subscribers for help, including some who are Japanese. No one could find anything. It seems Bulbapedia and many other sites have just been citing "a Nintendo Dream interview," and no one has been linking or citing a specific volume.

I'm thinking maybe it's meant to be volume 205, the May 2011 issue. But in that interview Sugimori only says that Hydreigon is based on the Yamata no Ochiri. I'm thinking all these quotes attributed to that Sugimori interview -- about dragon tanks, horned eyebrowless Oni, red Tornadus, and anglerfish Stunfisk -- probably don't exist, and that all Bulbapedia's Gen 5 betamon info is bunk -- all except Sawsbuck and Excadrill. I'd really like to be wrong though.

I tried combing through the page's history tab, but couldn't find where this information was added. I'm new to looking over the back-end of wikis though, so my apologies if I'm just overlooking something obvious. Please let me know, I'd really appreciate it.

Cheers admins,

Dr Lava {{unsigned|Dr Lava}}
:Ultra-ironic if true. -[[ArchdevilAntidote]]
::-[http://blog.livedoor.jp/shellspider/archives/696157.html#more]
::-[http://rpgland.com/2010/11/30/pokemon-black-and-white-scans-interview-in-nintendo-dream/]
::-[https://web.archive.org/web/20111119031953/http://pokemonblackandwhite.net/?p=4142]
::-[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=List_of_unused_Pok%C3%A9mon_and_character_designs&diff=1660923&oldid=1653669]
::-[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Talk:Hydreigon_(Pok%C3%A9mon)#Official_source._Hydreigon_is_based_on_a_Japanese_dragon.28YAMATA_NO_OROCHI.29.] (User Sawamular cites Nintendo Dream volume 205 as his source, he posted the same message on pokemon talk pages relevant to the Gen 5 beta)
::-[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Hydreigon_(Pok%C3%A9mon)&diff=prev&oldid=1448591]
::-[https://forums.serebii.net/threads/official-pokemon-discussion-thread.467053/page-459#post-12163722]
::--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 05:08, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

== Source for beta Hydreigon, Sawk, Throh, Tornadus info ==

Thanks ForceFire for the links, much appreciated. Of the 7 links you gave me as sources for the Gen 5 Pokemon's altered designs, one of them was in Japanese, one referred to the Nintendo Dream issue as being the February 2011 instead of May, #19 was just a user citing the May issue for the Yamata no Orochi quote but nothing else -- and well, I found the whole collection to be useful but still a little confusing and unclear. The most useful one was a non-ideal translation on page 459 of a Serebii forums thread, which is basically ungooglable. That said, I don't mean to come off as jerky here -- I know you're working with what you've got and I'm impressed you even had this much, and I appreciate your taking the time to provide me these links.

I think this particular Sugimori interview is probably the most important interview that deals with Gen 5 altered Pokemon designs, so I had the interview's Japanese transcript properly translated into English, and a Japanese friend was able to provide me with a picture of volume 205's page that has the information about Hydreigon, Sawk, Throh, and the Forces of Nature trio. '''I've compiled the original Japanese transcript, the English translation, pictures, and provided context for the interview, and added it all to my website in an easy-to-read article.''' I also included a special thanks section that thanks you ForceFire for providing valuable links, as well as to Shellspider, the original transcriber, and a link to the archive of his old blog. Several other folks who helped put it all together are thanked as well at the end of the interview's translation. Here's the link: http://lavacutcontent.com/ken-sugimori-nintendo-dream/

I hope that this link can serve as a more convenient, accessible, and accurate source for these "altered design" entries on the "unused Pokemon" page. Like I said, '''I think this particular Sugimori interview is really important, and information about it is incredibly difficult to find, even with Google. And I think it needs to be preserved and easy to access, particularly for folks who don't speak Japanese.''' Anyway, thanks again for taking the time to help me find this stuff ForceFire. Sorry if I formatted this post wrong -- I couldn't figure out how to make it a reply to your previous comment, so I just put it here. Cheers. -Dr Lava [[User:Dr Lava|Dr Lava]] ([[User talk:Dr Lava|talk]]) 11:56, 25 May 2019 (UTC)

Talk:List of unused Pokémon and character designs/Archive 1

2019-05-25T06:50:13Z

Ericss:

== Name ==

This page needs to be renamed, to something like "Unused Artwork" or "Unused Concept Art", due to the fact that somethings are not Pokémon. Also, am I the only one who sees a massive relation between {{p|Raichu}} and Honouguma, {{p|Cyndaquil}}? Nah it looks to me to be more of a possible Raichu evolution. - [[User:Ferret|Ferret]] 19:32, 19 Jul 2005 (UTC)

> Why would Raichu evolve into a Pokemon without "chu" in it's name, who according to it's own name is a Fire-type? {{unsigned|Zeta}}

They were trying something different maybe? It just seems to bear an amazing resemblance. - [[User:Ferret|Ferret]]

Did you guys think it was a pre-version of Teddiursa, but maybe scrapped when it was too related to Raichu. It is a bear, and a bear pokemon was released in Johto.
[[User:Firemaker|Firemaker]]

== Article ==

So, Bulbapedia has an article about Unreleased Pokémon, huh? Now all we need is an article on ''Fake'' Pokémon. - [[User:Pokencyclopedia|Pokencyclopedia]]

== Validity issues ==

I've always found those sketches rather dubious now that I think about it. Where did they originally come from? Is there any proof at all that they are original concept art? - [[User:Ferret|Ferret]] 22:40, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

: Excellent question. However, I do know I remember seeing them way back then on PokéFor (note the fine print on the images) around the release of G/S. - [[User:Zhen Lin|振霖]][[User talk:Zhen Lin|T]] 02:19, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

:The ones that were obviously scanned look like Sugimori's style, especially the trainers. So, at the very least, "Unnamed Mammal" and "Unnamed Turtle" are real. One can even see the turtle with Tyranitar in the Male Trainer art. I don't know what those other rough sketches are, though. They aren't Sugimori. --[[User:Argy|Argy]] 05:04, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

== Commentary issues ==

'''Unnamed mammal'''

''The Unnamed mammal has been said to resemble Hitmontop or Meowth''
:Really? I definately see some {{p|Wigglytuff}} in there! [[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] 17:20, 26 November 2005 (CST)
::This is gonna sound weird, but something about the design reminds me of {{p|Snubbull}}. It's the blue collar on a pink creature thing, I think. --[[User:Pie|Pie]] ~[[User talk:Pie|♪]][[Special:Contributions/Pie|♫]] 14:58, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

'''Kurusu'''

''This creature resembles a seal, but doesn't seem to have much relation to any Pokémon as of yet''
: [[Image:Alpha kurusu.png]][[Image:086Seel.png|200px]]
: --[[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] 14:52, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

'''Unnamed turtle'''

''A turtle Pokémon that was never released. It's possible it was later heavily reworked into Torkoal.''
:Am I the only one who sees Swampert's head in there? --[[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] 14:52, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

== Pictures ==

What website are those pictures from?--[[User:Ambipom|Ambipom]]--

== Other names and additional info ==

Back when Gold and Silver were about to come out, i remember there was an article in Gamepro magazine about the Japanese Gold and Silver that had a LOOONG list of beta Japanese names for the new pokemon, and the same article also had a few temporary English names. The ones I remember: Artibull instead of Smeargle and Xoqo instead of Xatu. Only problem is, that article is long gone. Can anyone help out?
--[[User: Jurgen200|Jurgen200]]--

Check out this list...

*152 Chikorita Chicolita
*153 Bayleef Beifiru
*154 Meganium Meganiumi
*155 Cyndaquil Hinoarashi
*156 Quilava Magumarashi
*157 Typhlosion Bakufun
*158 Totodile Waninoko
*159 Croconaw Arigeitsu
*160 Feraligatr Odairu
*161 Sentret Otachi
*162 Furret Ootachi
*163 Hoothoot Hoho
*164 Noctowl Yorunozuku
*165 Ledyba Rediba
*166 Ledian Redeian
*167 Spinarak Itomaru
*168 Araidos Araidosu
*169 Kurobat Kuroba
*170 Chinchou Chonchi
*171 Lanturn Rantan
*172 Pichu Pichu
*173 Cleffa Pi
*174 Igglybuff Pupurin
*175 Togepi Togepi
*176 Togetic Togechikku
*177 Natee Neitei
*178 Natotem Neiteio
*179 Mareep Meripu
*180 Skiploom Mokoko
*181 Centerity Denryu
*182 Bellossom Kireihana
*183 Marill Mariru
*184 Azumarill Mariruri
*185 Sudowoodo Usokki
*186 Politoed Myorotono
*187 Hoppip Hane
*188 Flaffy Popo
*189 Jumpluff Watakko
*190 Aipom Eipamu
*191 Sunkern Himanattsu
*192 Sunflora Kimawari
*193 Dunsparce Yanyanma
*194 Ampharos Upa
*195 Quagsire Nuoh
*196 Espeon Efui
*197 Umbreon Burakki
*198 Murkrow Yamikarasu
*199 Slowking Yadoking
*200 Trillix Muuma
*201 ????? Annon
*202 Crashin Sonansu
*203 Girafarig Kirinriki
*204 Skarmory Kunugidama
*205 Forretress Fuoretosu
*206 Duglari Nokocchi
*207 Gligar Guraiga
*208 Steelix Haganeru
*209 Snubbull Buru
*210 Granbull Guranburu
*211 Wobbuffet Harisen
*212 Scizor Hassamu
*213 Octorock Tsubotsubo
*214 Heracross Herakuroso
*215 Misdreavus Nyuura
*216 Moonlite Himeguma
*217 Soloar Ringuma
*218 Slugma Magumaggu
*219 Magcargo Magukarugo
*220 Swinub Urimu
*221 Sirnub Inomu
*222 Corsola Sanigo
*223 Remoraid Teppouo
*224 Octillery Okutan
*225 Delibird Deribado
*226 Mantine Maintain
*227 Wooper Eamudo
*228 Houndour Derubiru
*229 Houndoom Heruga
*230 Kingdra Kingudora
*231 Phanpy Gomazou
*232 Donphan Donfuyan
*233 Porygon 2 Porygon 2
*234 Stantler Odoshishi
*235 Artibull Doburu
*236 Hitmontot Baruki
*237 Hitmontop Kapoera
*238 Smoochum Muchura
*239 Elekid Erekid
*240 Magby Bubii
*241 Miltank Mirutanku
*242 Blissey Hapinasu
*243 Raikou Raikou
*244 Entei Entei
*245 Suicune Suikun
*246 Larvitar Yogirasu
*247 Pupitar Sanagirasu
*248 Tyranitar Bangirasu
*249 Lugia Lugia
*250 Ho-Oh Houou
*251 Selebi Serebeii

[http://maxpages.com/ashversusgary/Gold_Silver_Pokedex Source]
--[[User:Ambipom|Ambipom]]--
:Seems as if some, like Flaaffy and Skiploom, are flipped. --'''[[User:TTEchidna|T]][[User talk:TTEchidna|T]][[wp:Echidna|Echidna]]''' 22:52, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

::Wow, I actually remember those lists from back when G/S wasn't out in English yet. Every site had their own list of names that were confirmed, then had potential names that had been registered as copyrights or whatever listed somewhere and had people try to figure out which name went to which Pokémon.

::So, of course, the reason a few of them are mixed around is because the list was made when we could see what names had been registered (domain names of each Pokémon's name usually get registered by Nintendo ahead of time, or something like that); nobody knew what a Skiploom actually was, so Flaaffy ended up with the name Skiploom in most fans' lists (I guess nobody noticed the hop-skip-jump thing.)

::There's even a few of the common misspellings of the Japanese names that showed up in a lot of magazines and stuff before G/S's English release. "Hane"/"Popo" instead of Hanekko/Popokko, for example. With those in the list, I'm actually surprised the list doesn't have "Yanyan" listed as Umbreon/Burakki's Japanese name--that was a disturbingly common slip-up that magazines used to make back then.

::I do remember some of those names, but as far as I know "Natee" and "Natotem" never actually came from any sort of official source (either stated in Nintendo Power or registered online somewhere)--I actually remember talking about how "Xatu" and "Xoqo" (the guesses for Natu and Xatu's names at the time) were good names once, and someone randomly butted in and said that they should be named "something like Naytee or Natotem" instead. So yeah, those two are definitely fan-made names, probably made by people who wanted Cheesy Cram-Two-Words-Together Names and didn't like the much-more-interesting ones like Xatu. I also don't remember "Octorock" as a name for Tsubotsubo--and it's extremely unlikely that Nintendo was ever considering it, since it's already the name of a well-known Zelda monster. [[User:Zdododododo|Zdododododo]] 07:42, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

::The dodgy Maxpages fansites aside, here is what turned up from google searches of "Artibull" "Trillix" "Duglari" and "Xoqo":
http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/archive/index.php?t-19796.html [THIS GUY KNOWS WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT]
http://www.woodrecords.com/megahangout/Pokedex_4_Gold_and_Silver [early list, including the games they're found in]
http://maxpages.com/pokemonil/Gold_and_Silver_English_Names
http://maxpages.com/pokepapparazzi/Pokemon
http://www.gamefaqs.com/portable/gbcolor/file/198308/9132 [japanese walkthru with english names pasted in - confused names in the pokedex]
http://theoparadise.tripod.com/oldnews.htm [scroll down for pokemon list]
http://guidesarchive.ign.com/guides/11154/marowak.html ["guardia"]
http://www.pokebeach.com/pokemon.shtml [has all the beta names for red blue pkmn]
http://www.angelfire.com/md2/lugia149/list.html [all correct except for xoqo and torvado]
http://www.math.miami.edu/~jam/azure/forum/tuff/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=001495 [forum chatter about name confusion]
http://members.fortunecity.com/putobracker/90.html [artibull and hitmontot, however its foreign]
http://maxpages.com/tecnospokemon/POKEMON_GOLD_AND_SILVER_ATTACK ["milk berry" is the beta "milk drink" attack btw]
http://maxpages.com/tecnospokemon/NEW_GOLD_AND_SILVER_ATTACKS_2
http://pokemaniac2948.tripod.com/Attacks/ [funny guessed attack names - atom force and gang beating lol]
http://members.tripod.com/alyshakitty/pokedex2.html
http://members.tripod.com/alyshakitty/pokedex2p3.html
http://members.tripod.com/alyshakitty/pokedex2p4.html
http://members.tripod.com/alyshakitty/pokedex2p5.html
All of the Kanto names mentioned on these and other websites are genuine beta names. The poster included with my first edition 2BA Master CD had about 15 out 150 pokemon with the bizarre beta names like "dragoon" and "Guardia". These names are on the Pokemon's individual pages but they should be collected together. Same with the gold and silver names, at least a paragraph explaining the confusion that occurred among the fans. Sorry if this entry is too long and rambly :) [[User:Jurgen200|Jurgen200]]

I remember something like that in a magazine too, with beta images of the pokemon w/beta names. I lost it though. I think it was in Beckett.
[[User: Firemaker|Firemaker]]

what are crashin, trillix and number 201?- ''unsigned comment from {{u|Nobody777}} ([[User talk:Nobody777|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Nobody777|contribs]]) ''
:Crashin (Sonansu) is {{p|Wobbuffet}}, Trillix (Muuma) is {{p|Misdreavus}}, and ????? (Annon) is {{p|Unown}}. ([[User:Yaminokame|Yaminokame]] 13:41, 27 January 2010 (UTC))

==Is honouguma somehow related to the [[Pikachu]] and [[Marill]], much like the three birds?==
[[File:183Marill.png|150px]][[File:Alpha honouguma.png|150px]][[File:025Pikachu.png|150px]] 
Am I the only one to see a connection here? - [[User:Yukushi wisdom|Yukushi wisdom]] 19:15, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
:Hmm... Yeah, I see one. '''[[User:TTEchidna|TTE]][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 01:16, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
::Yeah... [[User:SpecialK|SpecialK Leiks Lucario and The Celebi Glitch]] 14:45, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

== Unown ==

Those "unreleased" Unown don't have to be unreleased.

*They don't count as Beta Pokémon because they were revealed after the release of Gold/Silver.
*I doubt they were ever meant to exist in games. They might be just anime-made.
*The pictures of Unowns seen in third movie are just pictures of several drawings of Unown. They may be a pure fiction. That's possible that these Unowns never existed, but someone drew them like that.

This page is about Pokémon which didn't make it to the final game. Those Unowns aren't one of them. They are anime-wank and no one says they were ever meant to exist. Those pictures in the movie were just DRAWINGS made by PEOPLE, not photos of real Unown. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 18:15, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
:Well the ! and ? Unown are proof that more Unown designs were being considered for the next games, so they should be added[[User:Vuvuzela2010|Vuvuzela2010]] 11:35, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
::They are no such thing. There's no evidence that the ! and ? Unown were planned since Gold and Silver. We just know that they were added in FRLG. Besides, this topice is like two and a half years old. --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] 11:39, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
:::well the film was released not long before Kecleon, Wailmer and Azurill were revealed, a year I think, and their designs were exactly the same as they look now, so they had possibly finalized a good number Ruby/Sapphire pokemon by then (I dont know when the pics of Treecko, Torchic and 'Latiken' were taken however, I am also unsure how long it takes them to make the films(they are usually crap so probably not long)), besides they could have just used pics of the 26 original unowns[[User:Vuvuzela2010|Vuvuzela2010]] 21:13, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

== "2v2" Template? ==

There's a template on the top of the page, and I don't know what it is supposed to be, could someone figure that out and fix it? [[User:Theininen|Theininen]] 16:01, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

:It's been taken care of. --[[User:Politoed666|ニョロトノ]][[User talk:Politoed666|''666'']] 16:06, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

::Thanks for that. [[User:Theininen|Theininen]] 16:29, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

== octorok comment ==

kirby has an ally named "chuchu" thats also zelda[[User:Whatswithalltheextraspace|Whatswithalltheextraspace]] 23:37, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
::Zelda's Chuchus didn't show up until LONG after Kirby's Dreamland 3. Plus, they're both gooey blob monsters that can stick to things, so it could be that the Zelda one was actually named after the Kirby one (or both were named after some other non-videogame-related thing... Japanese game/anime/etc. characters tend to have names like that pretty often.)[[User:Zdododododo|Zdododododo]] 19:39, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

== Page Title ==

The page title says unreleased Pokémon, yet there are designs of prototype player characters that definitely aren't Pokémon. I want to move the psge to something more appropriate, but what?--[[User:Kuki|Kuki]][[User talk:Kuki|Talk]] 00:25, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
:Maybe something like Unreleased Concept Artwork would be more accurate? Although since some of these are from magazines, saying the artwork itself is unreleased wouldn't be true...so something like Beta Concept Artwork? [[User:Lucentas|Lucentas]] 00:40, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
::Sometimes it's better to keep it simple. This is one of those times. [[User:GlinnMgraw|'''Glinn]] [[User_talk:GlinnMgraw|Mgraw''']] 07:22, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

== Pikachu.. ==

Does that really count? It's still Pikachu,it's just a little bigger(like a lot of the pre-anime designs,just look at the starters),and I'm pretty sure that came out after the games were released. Also,but offtopic,with Leaf..Should it be said she is Leaf? [[User:Lovely Rose|Lovely Rose]] 03:48, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

== Charizard.. ==

Should we include the Charizard from the same art as the Pikachu? It has a larger jaw then a regular Charizard, and is larger. [[User:Lovely Rose|Lovely Rose]] 17:05, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
:Many Pokémon designs change over the years. It's a completely different matter. It's simply early art, not really an unreleased thing. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 14:49, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

== unnamed turtle ==

In the male trainer section, the unnamed turtle is in the picture. Does this suggest that it is early art for {{p|Squirtle}}? [[User:Turtwig A|Turt]][[wig]] [[Turtwig (Pokémon)|A]] ([[User talk:Turtwig A|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|contribs]]) 23:50, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Most likely not since in that same picture one can see Tyranitar and other beta-Pokemon most likely from Gen II. As ar as I know it's a cover of a magazine that was suppose to report about the next Generation of Pokemon (or at least about plans). [[User:Ariano|Ariano]] 06:46, 24 March 2012 (UTC)
::I have the magazine in question. Unfortunately, there is no information on Gold/Silver within. The only indication of them is the cover itself. [[User:Slowpokeisgod|Slowpokeisgod]] 00:18, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
:::Hmmm... Most likely it's still not about Gen I Pokemon since it's from 1997... It could've been a "hint" of new games in development. [[User:Ariano|Ariano]] 06:44, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

== Starters? ==

Could Kurusu and Honoguma have originally been intended to be the Water and Fire Starters to go with Happa? [[User:Taromon777|'''''Taromon''''']] 14:29, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

== Does anyone remember this? ==

i just remember when I was a kid i had a magazine that showed all the then 100 new Pokémon. But they we're not in their Sugimori art. And I can't remember if they had their English names. If anyone remember, would it be useful?--'''[[User:Midnight Blue|Midnight]] [[User talk:Midnight Blue|''Blue'']]''' 05:08, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

if you can remember the name of the magazine and what issue and maybe post them on the talk page maybe they can be qualified as unreleased.--[[User:Nobody777|Nobody777]] 17:49, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

== Torchic and blaziken beta art ==

From did that art come from???--[[User:Nobody777|Nobody777]] 18:48, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
:I've seen that in 151chan (posted by a very trustable person). It seems to be photographed from some gallery. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 18:51, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

are there anymore pictures we can post or at least a reference??--[[User:Nobody777|Nobody777]] 19:26, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

== Green? It's BLUE! and other conflicts involving the Character section ==

I was reading a scanlation of Pokémon Special when I saw one of the pics that's in
this article in it!(It's the black-and-white pic of Red, Green, and Blue with thier fully-evolved starters.) I was immediatly reminded of the article and went to it, sure that the page
said that the pic was beta art.

And I was wrong, but I saw something else!

The page said that the girl in the aforementioned pic was Green.

Either Green had a gender change or the article's wrong!

Here's who's who- with the boys equated with their Anime counterparts-

Red-"Ash"

Green-"Gary"

Blue-the girl

The article needs fixing, but since this also goes into parts I don't know about-
I'm still reading Red-Green-Blue- I can't fully proofread it.

Also, I think the book under the color pic showing Red, Green, and Blue with
thier unevolved starters is Pokemon Special- at least a copy of it.
[[User:ThaPoketrix|ThePoketrix]] 22:24, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
:The rival's name is Blue. He's known as Blue when he's an NPC in GSC and HGSS as a Gym Leader. However, he is known as Green in Japanese. As such, the girl's name would be Green, or Blue in Japanese, as was done in the manga. '''~ [[User:Sol|sol]][[User talk:Sol|ar]][[Special:Contributions/Sol|is]]''' 22:30, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
::Some fans have a tendency to mix Japanese names with English (especially in the case of Blue/Green). But they're not right. Trust official sources, not scanslations made by fans. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 07:33, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

== Who is that? ==

Who is supposed to be riding the Latias/Blaziken Pokemon in the artwork? [[User:Flyingtypefan|Flyingtypefan]] 23:30, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
:Some unused trainer obviously. Maybe they should have their own entry?--[[User:Pokelova|''Poké'']][[User talk:Pokelova|lova!]] 04:29, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
Does anyone else think so? [[User:Flyingtypefan|Flyingtypefan]] 06:06, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
::This very artwork was later heavily remade by Sugimori into a scene artwork with actual Latias and Latios. There's a girl that rides that Latios on that art. This isn't really the same girl but she looks a bit similar. You know which artwork I mean, don't you? --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 07:50, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Unfortunately, no. I didn't really pay attention to art and stuff with Gen III. Can you show me the art?--[[User:Pokelova|''Poké'']][[User talk:Pokelova|lova!]] 11:18, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
::::It's at [[a:File:Latias_Latios.png]]. But I don't know if it's that important to this article-- unlike some of the Pokémon or characters on this page, this character probably was never intended to appear in any game. Methinks this artwork is merely intended to be just that, artwork. It doesn't have to correspond with anything from any game. --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] 12:10, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
:::::She's still an unreleased character with beta art.--[[User:Pokelova|''Poké'']][[User talk:Pokelova|lova!]] 12:18, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::Should she be referenced to then? {{unsigned|Lovely Rose}}

== Unnamed Turtle And Shuckle? ==

Though the article states it is similar to Squirtle, could it possibly be an evolved form of Shuckle? They both have a shell, they both have similarly shaped heads and considering Shuckle was introduced in generation II, it could have been an expansion on the family. Think of the expansions on gen II families in gen IV. This could have been the same thing. I do agree, however, it does look like Squirtle though. [[User:FrozenStrategy|FrozenStrategy]] 19:32, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

== Unknown Pokemopolis Pokemon ==

During the episode The Ancient Puzzle of Pokemopolis, Brock is seen holding a statue of an unknown pokemon, worth a mention I think.
http://www.serebii.net/anime/pictures/indigo/074ps1.shtml

[[User:Vuvuzela2010|Vuvuzela2010]] 04:20, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
:Wow, nice find. Definitely needs a mention. Perhaps the last one is trapped in the GS Ball :D And re-watching the episode, perhaps also the statues in sequence shortly after: [http://www.serebii.net/anime/pictures/indigo/074ps2.shtml here]. I'm surprised no one noticed this before. I guess everyone repressed the memory of that horrifying french accent. - [[User:DanPMK|MK]] ([[User Talk:DanPMK|t]]/[[Special:contributions/DanPMK|c]]) 04:43, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
::Celebi is in the GS Ball. Kurt ate it. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 04:49, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
:::Heh. Closest Pokémon that frame fits is Teddiursa, but the difference is enough that I'd call it unknown. - [[User:DanPMK|MK]] ([[User Talk:DanPMK|t]]/[[Special:contributions/DanPMK|c]]) 04:51, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
::::I am now almost certain that the artifact is Honoguma with round ears, as they are both bear-like, have similar builds, obviously the markings would not normaly be part of the Pokemon, as the Psyduck artifact, Giant Gengar, Giant Alakazam & Giant Jigglypuff have similar markings, anybody else see the resemblance?[[User:Vuvuzela2010|Vuvuzela2010]] 12:17, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

== "Resembles" ==

Can we excise all the speculation about what a released Pokémon each unreleased Pokémon somewhat resembles? Isn't it entirely possible that these Pokémon are entirely unreleased and in no way influenced the design of later Pokémon? [[User:Slowpokeisgod|Slowpokeisgod]] 09:13, 8 October 2010 (UTC)
:Well, for most of them from Generation II and onward, it's pretty obvious which later designs they influenced; take Happa for instance, it's obviously a beta Chikorita. But I wouldn't be against removing the speculation about the pre-Generation II art, such as the "unnamed turtle". --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] 10:51, 8 October 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I think the info that is obviously rubbish should be removed, such as Honoguma (a bear, & a starter) being related to Raichu, & Kurusu (also a starter) being a pre-evo of Seel or Lapras (no resemblance whatsoever), also, I cannot see any resemblance between the Turtle & Turtwig (yet another starter), & it is highly unlikely to be an evo of Squirtle (someone was obviously obsessed with starters!), the about the Turtle & Purutoga should stay however, since the similarities are pretty undeniable, the bit about Torkoal might as well stay too.[[User:Vuvuzela2010|Vuvuzela2010]] 11:29, 8 October 2010 (UTC)
:::I happen to have the full artwork of the turtle and can say that it has very little resemblance to Purutoga. I think rather than having an actual relation they just have similar design themes, both being turtles and all. For example, the new electric flying squirrel resembles Pachirisu, but they're not related. They simply follow typical themes standard for a Pokemon of that type. [[User:Slowpokeisgod|Slowpokeisgod]] 00:39, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
::::couldn't the relation between the old turtle and new turtle be that the old one was scrapped concept art that was revived for the new generation when they decided to discount the old pokemon and make this one completely new?--[[User:Ash0011|Ash0011]] 20:28, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

== EP072 thing ==

I wouldn't really try to search for any meaning in that bear-like thing from EP072. It's a random thing, most likely created for the anime only. It has no meaning. There's no evidence that it was ever intended to be a Pokemon. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 18:22, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
:Looking into it, it's a painted Psyduck figure.--'''[[User:Immewnity|''immewnity'']][[User talk:Immewnity|the]][[Special:Contributions/Immewnity|mew]]''' 14:30, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
::There is a Psyduck artifact, but thats not what this is about.[[User:Vuvuzela2010|Vuvuzela2010]] 14:40, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::the one that brock is holding looks more bear-ish and isn't yellow--[[User:Ash0011|Ash0011]] 20:25, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

== Ok, Really? ==

I know the pink top looks like Hitmontop but it looks clearly like a Clefairy as well, and Cleffa came the next generation did it not? The "Meoth whiskers" thing is a bit vaque though. But can we at least mention Clefairy? --[[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']]''' 20:17, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

== Turtle ==

couldn't the relation between the old turtle and new turtle be that the old one was scrapped concept art that was revived for the new generation when they decided to discount the old pokemon and make this one completely new?--[[User:Ash0011|Ash0011]] 00:35, 22 January 2011 (UTC)
:Hellooo anyone care to comment?--[[User:Ash0011|Ash0011]] 22:08, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
::That's just speculation, we don't know that. And its not like Shellos and Gastordon, which were saved for the next generation, there is a 3 Generation (and 10 year) difference. Also, the artwork we currently have doesn't show the whole Pokemon, so untill we have that, we can't really speculate about this (if someone knows where to find the original, non-cropped artwork, please post it). '''X'''[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']]'''X''' 23:59, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
:::someone on the resembles thread says they have it.--[[User:Ash0011|Ash0011]] 21:40, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
::::Yes, I spotted that yesterday, I've posted a comment on their talk page, but thanks for mentioning that anyway. Still no reply though :( If it turns out to be a dead end, I might look around the web myself, though where to find a reliable, non-fan-created picture is the problem. '''X'''[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']]'''X''' 21:47, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

== Arachnoid ==
In the episode "The Superhero Secret" there is a strange arachnoid. It can be seen on this page [http://www.serebii.net/anime/pictures/johto/140ps5.shtml]
[[User:Kodde|Kodde]] 11:35, 22 January 2011 (UTC)
:That's [[Team Rocket|team rocket]]'s robot--[[User:Ash0011|Ash0011]] 04:06, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
No it isn't. If you watch the episode you can see that it dosen't move mechanicaly and it dosen't say anywhere that it is team Rockets robot. [[User:Kodde|Kodde]] 10:03, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
:Having just watched the episode, it would certainly seem to be a Pokemon, even if it is just supposed to be a prop (it even has a cry), though it would have been created for just this episode (though it's not the first anime-exclusive Pokemon). It is odd however, that they did not just use a giant Spinarak. It should be added, if you want to add it feel free, though I will probably get round to adding it tommorrow.'''X'''[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']]'''X''' 17:47, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
::It's a fictional monster. Fictional from the Pokémon world's point of view too. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 18:13, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
:::In other words, it is a fictional Pokemon, like how some legendaries are seen in universe to be fictional? Still worth noting. '''X'''[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']]'''X''' 19:05, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
:::That's obivously not what Maxim ment. That thing is obviously not ment to be a Pokémon. It's only ment to be a fictional monster for Gligarman to fight. If you're going to include that thing, you may as well include the Mongoose from Ghost of Madien's Peak episode or the worm Pidgeotto ate in episode 3, or the "Legendary Water Pokémon" Misty imagined in the Slowpoke Enlightenment episode Etc.[[User:PDL|PDL]] 19:31, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
::::But we don't know if it is ''not'' a Pokemon for certain, though I wouldnt say the others should be included, the mongoose is just Gastly, and I think the worm is just meant to be a real worm. I have not seen the Slowpoke episode however, so I cannot say anything about that thing (though I am getting it up on my laptop now). '''X'''[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']]'''X''' 20:02, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
:::::It was shown only in a fictional story of Gligarman. So, it's reasonable to assume that it doesn't exist in the Pokemon world. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 20:07, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
::::::oooooh that one okay that shouldn't count because that looks like it's in one of those old giant spider-godzilla movies.--[[User:Ash0011|Ash0011]] 20:22, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
If you think it shouldnt be on the page, then you can remove it, though I still feel it should be in the article, as it is for ''Unreleased Pokemon'', and even though it may be fictional, it is still seems highly likely that it is a fictional Pokemon, and thus releavant to the article. As for not existing in the Pokemon world, with the possible exeption of the EP072 bear, none of the unreleased Pokemon on this page would exist in the Pokemon world either... '''X'''[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']]'''X''' 20:25, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
:okay then that makes sense--[[User:Ash0011|Ash0011]] 21:33, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
:Perhaps it would be better to have a separate list for "Non-Pokémon" creatures and keep this entry specifically about Unreleased or beta Pokémon '''As they are ment to appear in the games'''. Anime only stuff hardly counts. [[User:PDL|PDL]] 23:06, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
::While I disagree with your ''Anime only stuff hardly counts'' comment, as the anime is often used to showcase unreleased Pokemon (like Togepi, the gold Ho-Oh in EP001, or possibly the bear with a rather striking resemblance to Honoguma in EP072), the seperate list doesn't sound like a bad idea actually. Though I would prefer the name '''List of disputed Pokemon''' or something along those lines, as there is already a list for [[animals|non-Pokemon]]. This page would need to be renamed to reflect the change, unless the list would simply be a new section on this page? '''X'''[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']]'''X''' 23:47, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Then I wonder why [[Zapmolcuno]] isn't here. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 10:42, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
::::I was refraining from adding it, incase everything was to be moved around. Same goes for [[Venustoise]], the unreleased Unown forms seen in [[M03]], the Sun and the Fairy seen in the book of Legendary Pokemon in [[M03]], the wooden Celebi seen in [[M04]], and the creature attacking Alto Mare at the start of [[M05]]. '''X'''[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']]'''X''' 17:52, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
Perhaps we really should keep this page for Pokémon artwork that's explicitly "beta". Anime appearences of "non-Pokémon" should really go to a different page. [[User:PDL|PDL]] 00:42, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

I think that We should add the ones mentioned above as they are ''presumably'' pokémon and I think we should add a section for pokemon appearing only in the manga that have no natural explanation such as Zapmolcuno and the manga dialga/palkia fusion statue at eterna city (there is a picture of it on the eterna city talk page).--[[User:Nobody777|Nobody777]] 17:58, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
:they should be added, but for now, you can add them to this page
:[[User:Vuvuzela2010/Disputed Pokémon]]
:'''X'''[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']]'''X''' 19:26, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

== Kurusu = Daikenki/Samurott? ==

Does anybody here see a resemblance between the unreleased Kurusu and the 5th-Gen Samurott/Daikenki?

[[File:Alpha kurusu.png|300px|Kurusu]]

[[File:503Samurott.png|300px|Samurott]]
--[[User:Bad Grim|Bad Grim]] 04:52, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
:Um..... No. They're vaguely the same shape and that's it. [[User:Ikarishipper900|Ikarishipper900]] 04:00, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

I see it... Quadrupeds, probably water-type, maybe a very old possibility for Oshawott?
[[User:Shinyzubat123|Shinyzubat123]] 21:22, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

The similarity is as obvious as between Honoguma, Pikachu/Raichu and Marill... [[User:Ariano|Ariano]] 06:41, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

==Bellossom? Jynx?==
If Bellossom is on here for a color change, shouldn't Jynx be as well? To be honest I feel like Bellossom being on here is a little sketchy since the dark blue coloring was obviously released. However, if Bellossom is valid, Jynx should be on here too, right? [[User:Ikarishipper900|Ikarishipper900]] 03:59, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
:No. Jynx was originally black and released as black coloured, but it was changed along the course of the franchise. While Bellossom was previewed to be dark blue, but was changed to a green colour before release.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F''']][[Reshiram (Pokémon)|orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F''']][[Zekrom (Pokémon)|ire]] 09:31, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
::But wasn't this official GSC artwork? Why is that considered before release? [[User:Ikarishipper900|Ikarishipper900]] 04:38, 7 May 2011 (UTC)

== More unreleased Pokemon - Japanese translation needed ==

In the Capsule Monsters sketches, [http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/3897/pkmn1285890995744.jpg one shows two unreleased Pokemon, with their numbers and possibly Pokedex entries]. Can someone please translate this? {{unsigned|Vuvuzela2010}}
:The bug is Papyō and the cat is Buhī.--'''[[User:Dennou Zenshi|電禅]][[User talk:Dennou Zenshi|Den Zen]]''' 15:30, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
::[http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/8/8a/Pokemon_conceptart.jpg And here's three new Pokés:] the lizard is '''Godzillante''', the ape is '''Gorillaimo''' and the Dragon is '''Dragon4'''.--'''[[User:Dennou Zenshi|電禅]][[User talk:Dennou Zenshi|Den Zen]]''' 17:53, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
:::Thanks for that! I've added them all in now. Do you know what the text entries next to those five Pokemon say? It looks like it could be a Pokedex entry, or maybe it says what type they are? '''X'''[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']]'''X''' 20:39, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
::::I can't really translate Japanese text; I mainly just romanize katakana and hiragana.--'''[[User:Dennou Zenshi|電禅]][[User talk:Dennou Zenshi|Den Zen]]''' 20:49, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
:::::I'd personally make a separate section, or maybe even separate article for Capsule Monsters. They deserve a special place! --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 12:01, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
::::::Well, we do have [[Capsule Monsters]]. This is basically just an extension of that. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 12:42, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
:::::::So, I'd rather add them there or start a new article "List of known Capsule Monsters" or something like that. I don't think that the prototypes of Pokemon and scrapped Pokemon designs invented later should belong together. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 08:12, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
::::::::Yeah, I agree. They are two different things. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 10:11, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

== Moving to Prototype Pokemon and characters... ==

I'd like to suggest that this article be moved to "Prototype Pokémon and characters". Not only does this article list things that have been unreleased, but it also lists Pokemon whose designs had simply been alerted, and are therefore still technically released. "Prototype" can easily refer to both kinds, so I'd like to suggest that the article be moved to that. [[User:Rai Marshall|Rai Marshall]] 19:49, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
: I concur ''[[User:Sui|'''Sui''']][[User talk:Sui|'''Scorpio''']]'' 02:23, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

::Because half of this page is "altered", not "unreleased", I think the more universal term "prototype" is better suited. '''[[User:Toon Ganondorf|Toon Ganondorf ]] [[User Talk:Toon Ganondorf|(t]] [[Special:Contributions/Toon Ganondorf|c)]]''' 06:34, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
:::First, I think that early Capsule Monsters should be covered separately and things like Bellossom should be deleted. It doesn't fit here. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 07:41, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

::::Even if a listing of Capsule Monsters do get their own page, there's still other kinds of Pokemon designs that were still simply alerted, like those Gen II alters. There's still a reason for this to be called "Prototype Pokémon and characters". [[User:Rai Marshall|Rai Marshall]] 20:03, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
:::::Why should Bellossom be deleted? It was altered before release, and is relevant to the article. '''X'''[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']]'''X''' 20:09, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
::::::Also, I would support the move. '''X'''[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']]'''X''' 20:11, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
:::::::Actually, the artwork with purple Bellossom is its actual GS artwork (a final thing, not an early sketch like the rest). So, it's not really unreleased. At the same logic, we should also add Slowpoke here because it had a stripped belly in the original GSC. Many Pokemon has been given cosmetic design changes over the generations and it's really hard to call their older designs "prototype". --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 07:54, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
[[File:1999 Bellossom Artwork.png|thumb|right]]
:The Bellossom artwork was like that years before G/S were released, they just never bothered changing it. And Slowpoke is hardly the same, that was just a sprite error. '''X'''[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']]'''X''' 09:36, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
::Sprite error? "Error" implies accident. This doesn't look like an accident. There's no artwork from that era which contradicts that "error", hence no proof that it's an error. And the fact that Bellossom's artwork wasn't changed means that it's to be treated as a final thing. And compared to the other prototypes we have, it's a really minor change. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 14:18, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
:::I support the move: I just think that a word better than prototype could be chose. It sounds too mechanical. ''[[User:Maverick Nate|'''Maverick''']][[User talk:Maverick Nate|'''Nate''']]'' 14:25, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
::::In response to the Bellossom point. The alterations to Bellossom are the same as those that Jynx undertook. They were both one color-scheme up until some time after their release, and then they were both changed post-release. If one should be included here then so should the other I would think. Thanks. ''[[User:Sui|'''Sui''']][[User talk:Sui|'''Scorpio''']]'' 20:50, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
:::::Error does not always mean accidental, it can also mean they screwed it up. A good example is the 'upside down' Koffing from Red and Blue (or any other sprite from Red/Green/Blue), obviously intentional. And Slowpoke's striped belly has not been seen in the anime, TCG, or any other media, even though it should be partially visible in [http://archives.bulbagarden.net/wiki/File:SabrinaSlowpokeGymHeroes95.jpg its TCG artwork] and [http://pkmncollectors.livejournal.com/3016560.html its Ken Suginori Bandai artwork].
:::::Also, Jynx does not count, since it ''was'' released. '''X'''[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']]'''X''' 05:28, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
:Sorry about Jynx, I got confused about the Bellossom artwork not changing. Slowpoke's striped belly can be seen in the Bandai artwork for Aerodactyl: http://pkmncollectors.livejournal.com/3016560.html ''[[User:Sui|'''Sui''']][[User talk:Sui|'''Scorpio''']]'' 05:55, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
::That's like saying that Charmander was 'prototype' because it once had spikes on its back. Ken Sugimori's early art had a lot of things depicted that were either changed or remove in subsequent games. Likewise with in-game sprites, such as the GRB Machamp with spikes on its head. But in all honesty, this section is supposed to be for discussion on whether this article should be moved, NOT whether Bellossum or Slowpoke was prototype. Can someone please split this up? [[User:Rai Marshall|Rai Marshall]] 06:02, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
:::Noted, I've moved it to the section below. '''X'''[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']]'''X''' 12:07, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
::::Er, no. This wasn't split up. [[User:Rai Marshall|Rai Marshall]] 01:05, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

== Palette changes ==

Rather than just delete, lets harness the power of the talk page. Should altered palettes, like those found below, be included in the altered Pokémon section? ''[[User:Sui|'''Sui''']][[User talk:Sui|'''Scorpio''']]'' 20:42, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

{{TrainerPoké
|nick=Wynaut
|type1=Psychic
|img=Beta Wynaut.png
|epnum=Pokémon Ruby and Sapphire beta
|epname=Pokémon Ruby and Sapphire beta
|desc={{main|Wynaut (Pokémon)}}[[File:360Wynaut.png|170px|right]] Pre-release screenshots of Wynaut show that it was going to be green in color rather than blue.}}

{{TrainerPoké
|nick=Excadrill
|type1=Ground
|type2=Steel
|img=BW Prerelease double battle.png
|epnum=Pokémon Black and White beta
|epname=Pokémon Black and White beta
|desc={{main|Excadrill (Pokémon)}}[[File:530Excadrill.png|200px|right]] In Excadrill's first appearance in a promotional video, it was colored purple instead of brown and its stripes were mirrored. However, this was not long-lived, as it was changed to its current appearance in the next video.}}
:Both are video quality's fault. When the screenshot of Wynaut surfaced, we have already had its artwork revealed and it looked just like now, so there was never a design change. And this Excadrill was extracted from a very low-quality video. Actually, all colors on this video are off. Even Haxorus is greenish yellow. That's nothing more than a matter of quality. All high quality versions of the same video had correct colors. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 09:01, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
::Sorry to blend in the conversation, but how about Excadrill's belly pattern? That can't be a quality error, can it? [[User:TyraniThrone|Tyrani]][[User talk:TyraniThrone|Throne]] 11:12, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
:::My view is, it would probably be better to include those with minor alterations, such as Exadrill and Tyranitar, in a ''Minor alterations'' subsection. '''X'''[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']]'''X''' 11:29, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
::::Does anyone know the exact date when Bellossom's GS artwork was released? If it was after its first anime appearance (where it was green), it could be worth mentioning the contradiction. '''X'''[[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']]'''X''' 12:07, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

== Buizel ==

I remember I saw once a scan of a magazine released before the release of D&P showing a black siloutte of Buizel with two "collars" instead of one. If I find it again may this added to this page? Also the Unnamed turtle actually have legs, it isn't "just a head sticking out of a shell". --[[User:SamuStar|SamuStar]] 16:27, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

== Altered human designs ==

There's a template for Altered Pokemon Designs, so why not for the humans? I can think of a few who received design overhauls.. As said Silver's hair was shorter in the concept art, Kris seems to have gotten a design overhaul from the beta to the main product, and that seems to be Red in the Capsule Monster sketches. [[User:Dia Sprite|Dia Sprite]] 23:52, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

== Who are this Pokemon? ==

http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/3706/45234089orgv1315354262.jpg

Seriously... Who? I thought the fish was Basculin but the name does not match, then we have that... Siloutte thing next to Deerling that does not match any of the forms of neither Deerling or Sawsbuck, Alomomola design is noticeable different (and shares traits with Luvdisc: Shape, "blush sticker" and mouth, I think it was once planned to be an evolution) and Pansage is fat.

I also noticed the battle sprites are similar to those of Generation IV, same half-body back-sprites.

Found [http://photozou.jp/photo/show/761853/45234089 here]. [[User:LurKasumi|LurKasumi]] 09:18, 8 September 2011 (UTC)
:That image was a hoax from the Japanese Black and White pre-release period. - [[User:Kogoro|'''Kogoro''']] '''-''' [[User talk:Kogoro|'''Talk to me''']] - 09:28, 8 September 2011 (UTC)
:: Oh derp, thanks. [[User:LurKasumi|LurKasumi]] 09:35, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

== Additions ==

Here's a [http://archives.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Special:Contributions/Chickasaurus whole bunch of stuff to add] for someone who has the time to add it in. [[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']][[Koffing (Pokémon)| ☠]] 19:36, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
:I plan on adding these soon. They supposedly originated on Game Freak's blog in one of the archived posts, though I wasn't able to find it; I read about it as a recent addition on the Japanese Pokémon Wiki, and I believe its been [http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/members/1970/30491/index6.html considered] before about adding these when SmearglePaints ({{user|Redstar}}) brought it up on the forums last year.

:There is a [http://hakuda2.web.fc2.com/ir/poke4/trust.html Japanese website] focusing on lost Pokémon which hosts that artwork and has further information about more Generation II lost Pokémon other than the three 'starters' and variations (namely 'Akua', 'Akueria', 'Netamon' and 'Elekingu') which were apparently seen in the [[Nintendo World|Nintendo Space World 1997]] demo but had only their names shown. The Japanese Pokémon Wiki also had these and more variations which none of the other sources mention, though I don't know of the validity. I uploaded the Japanese Pokémon Blue artwork because of some of the ambiguous designs, I don't know if they should count though. --[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] 20:58, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

::The recent images added are fan drawings, not official artwork of any kind. As such they should be removed. [[User:Slowpokeisgod|Slowpokeisgod]] 02:31, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
:::Oh ok, is that right? I'm wondering then where the author ([http://hakuda2.web.fc2.com/ir/poke4/trust.html ボツポケモン応援隊]) originally got the concept from. I know of some [http://bbs.tgbus.com/viewthread.php?action=printable&tid=1932117 sprites of them] but I'm unsure of their legitimacy. I heard that these Pokémon were shown on Game Freak's website but I haven't been able to find an archived version of the original page yet. --[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] 13:33, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
::::The sprite sheet is fully legitimate. I'd have to ask my friend the exact place it was found, which provided information on when they were secured, but I'd say there's enough sources to indicate this as a legitimate find. [[User:Slowpokeisgod|Slowpokeisgod]] 08:07, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

== Pocket Monsters Blue designs ==

"Near the bottom right is a Pokémon face, possibly based on Nidorino." It looks like Pidgeotto to me--[[User:SamuStar|SamuStar]] 18:35, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
:Not that one...the one to the left and up. '''[[User:LimeGreenCharizard|LimeGreen]]''[[User talk:LimeGreenCharizard|Charizard]]'''''[[Special:Contributions/LimeGreenCharizard|♂]] 19:57, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
Now I see, thank you. At first it looked like Venomoth to me, but it's surely Nidorino (or at least Nidoran♂) --[[User:SamuStar|SamuStar]] 20:15, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

== Some early designs ==

Early artwork on the pocket monsters cardass trading cards page shows a pikachu with a white belly and large execute with small ones the designs are the same as what they looked like in there red blue and green sprites so i think they should be on this page because the kakuna and rhyhorn with the same story are on there. Also there is a graveler with golden fingures on that page too.
[[User:Kybett98|Kybett98]] 04:45, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
:Someone should probably add the Carddass Charmander and the early back sprites for him, since the card shows his now-unexistant ridges down his back.[[User:Mefredbob|Mefredbob]] 09:41, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
Oh yes i never noticed him i saw that the ones i requested where added but have now been removed why? {{unsigned|Kybett98}}

== Unnamed Turtle ==

I think the unnamed turtle could be a Pokémon with no roots in any other Pokémon, meaning it was originally going to be a seperate Pokémon but was completely scrapped, and perhaps it was related to Kurusu. Can anyone shoot me down with fact?
[[User:Shinyzubat123|Shinyzubat123]] 21:30, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

== Even more designs ==

Recently, this year [http://bbs.tgbus.com/viewthread.php?action=printable&tid=1932117 users on TGBUS] revealed a few more designs, and annotated some of the existing ones in English e.g. "The inside of a hotel. You can see a device for healing your Pokémon inside". I've seen the former sprites (below) on 2chan, but was unsure of its legitimacy, since its marked December 1997. It would be most appreciated if someone could translate it. I have heard that Nyosuka and others were mentioned once on Gamefreak's official Japanese website, but I can't find the original page and I'm unsure if images of them were ever officially revealed. Sorry, if that's a lot to ask for though.
*[http://17woo.tgbusdata.cn/month_1101/11011600533674699a45d777f6.jpg Sprites]
*[http://17woo.tgbusdata.cn/month_1101/11011600397a98e2b81ee3b0b7.jpg Kabīn] --[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] 13:22, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
:The sprite list featuring the early designs for the Poliwhirl, Weedle and Dratini lines are indeed official. A friend of mine discovered them several months ago on a blog by someone who salvaged them back in 1999. My friend also has an English translation for the text seen within the image. [[User:Slowpokeisgod|Slowpokeisgod]] 06:26, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
::Do you mean this [http://fuckyeahbetapokemonart.tumblr.com/page/1 blog]? I came across it later last Wednesday when doing an image search of the artwork. I once saw the images on 2chan, but I thought they were probably fake and confused them with the fan artwork on [http://hakuda2.web.fc2.com/ir/poke4/trust.html The Lost Pokémon]. The [http://wiki.xn--rckteqa2e.com/wiki/%E6%B2%A1%E3%83%9D%E3%82%B1%E3%83%A2%E3%83%B3%E3%81%AE%E4%B8%80%E8%A6%A7 Japanese Pokémon Wiki] seems to reaffirm information about them originating from Game Freak's website as well. I actually posted for a translation request on [http://jul.rustedlogic.net/thread.php?id=11437&page=15#375860 Jul] last October but never got anything back. That's great to hear that your friend took the time to translate it! Do you have a link to the translated version? --[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] 07:05, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
:::Yes, that blog is run by the same friend who discovered the sheet. The Lost Pokemon site (an affiliate of the RCB site and a correspondence of mine) had info on the sprites for awhile and we're actively looking for them. Because of them I went on the chase, but my friend was able to turn them up herself after I had given up. The Lost Pokemon then discovered themselves just a few weeks or months afterwards, so they get credit for spreading it on the Japanese side of things.

:::I've just had my friend provide the translation. Find it [http://fuckyeahbetapokemonart.tumblr.com/post/12592876977/wimscoot-piratekingatomsk here]. [[User:Slowpokeisgod|Slowpokeisgod]] 08:07, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
::::Thank you and wimscoot so much for this! I've gathered some thoughts on why it might say "Pokémon 2" even though the designs don't seem to belong to [[Generation II]] but I realize that here isn't a good place to speculate about this. What is your username on Bulbagarden Forums? (I'm Torchickens) I also apologize for the relatively late reply. --[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] 17:31, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

== Stunfisk ==

Beta Version from Stunfisk [http://pokemonblackandwhite.net/?p=4142]??? --Altruis 17:10, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
:That was from the Nintendo Dream interview, and it is most likely true, so it should be added. [[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']][[Latios (Pokémon)| Δ ]] 17:46, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

==Game-on Exhibition==
It may be old news, but for those asking for references, I took pictures from this long-running exhibition called Game On. It had some concept works on some game franchises and Pokémon was one of them. [http://www.barbican.org.uk/bie/exhibitions/game-on Check here for info on the expo.] There were some Ruby/Sapphire sketches there, such as the Torchic with floppy ears [http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g255/sfirah/DSC01532.jpg Torchic with floppy ears], the Treecko sketches [http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g255/sfirah/DSC01528.jpg (maybe a little clearer here)] and [http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g255/sfirah/DSC01529.jpg the Blaziken/Latias one]. There were also this [http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g255/sfirah/DSC01530.jpg other sketch of a floppy-eared Torchic] and this [http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g255/sfirah/DSC01533.jpg early Groudon sketch]. [[User:KurowaSan|KurowaSan]] 03:21, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

:I went to the expo again today and tried to get some better photos of the art. I'll try to upload them to Bulbagaren Archives and add them to the articles. [[User:KurowaSan|KurowaSan]] 02:28, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
:: Where is this geographically?[[User:Jdrawer|Jdrawer]] 02:38, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
:::Those are of most interest. If it happens to be there tomorrow do you plan to try to take a picture of all Pokemon sketches that you can? Also nice to hear you took more photos today. The beta Treecko looked like it had a bit of a Grovyle look to it on the arms. Salamence didn't look much different. Wonder why Torchic had the most redos, a floppy eared, then chubby floppy ears, interesting. [[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen Fennec]] 03:34, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
::::It goes around the world since 2002, always adding some new stuff to it. Right now, the expo is in Brasilia, Brazil.
I uploaded the pictures to Bulbagarden Archives. Torchic's [[http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/File:Torchic_Beta.jpg]] and Latiken's [[http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/File:Latias_Blaziken.jpg]] were added to the articles already, substituting the old ones. Treecko's [[http://archives.bulbagarden.net/wiki/File:Treecko_Beta.jpg]] (it wouldn't let me substitute the old one, so I just uploaded it separately and didn't change the article), Groudon's [[http://archives.bulbagarden.net/wiki/File:Groudon_Beta.jpg]] and Torchic's other concept art [[http://archives.bulbagarden.net/wiki/File:Torchic_Beta2.jpg]] were only uploaded, but not added to any of the articles. Someone please do it for me. xD [[User:KurowaSan|KurowaSan]] 03:51, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
: Excellent then. As for replacing the old images, I can see doing so for the Torchic but not the others at the moment. The new Torchic image you uploaded is great though since it is closer and higher quality, thanks for uploading the image. :) [[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen Fennec]] 03:54, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
::Ah as for the Treecko image, click on it, the click description page under the image which is in bold. Log in on the archives if not already and scroll down, click on upload new version of this file. [[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen Fennec]] 03:59, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
:::Thanks. I did that for the Treecko picture, but it said it had some trouble cause the old picture is a png file and the new one is a jpg. Even after I tried converting the new pic to png, it wouldn't accept. (Nevermind, it worked now. lol) [[User:KurowaSan|KurowaSan]] 04:09, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
::::I see the Groundon image has been uploaded but where would the image go? Prototype or Minor Alterations? [[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen Fennec]] 01:01, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
:::::I believe "Minor alterations" would be more accurate, as it basically remained the same, except for those marks it shares with Kyogre and Rayquaza (at least that's the only thing I noticed). [[User:KurowaSan|KurowaSan]] 01:19, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

== More designs ==

I found [http://fuckyeahbetapokemonart.tumblr.com/ this site] and it appears to have lots of legit designs that we're missing around here, despite being mixed up with fanart and fakes. But are the apparently legit ones really legit? Please discuss these findings. [[User:Pokemon lover|Sato]][[User talk:Pokemon lover|Mew]] 16:41, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

:Hehe, I've heard of this. There's this deviantArt group called TheLostPokemon, which is for the Pokemon in this article. The stuff's pretty legit (though I'd still want to check out the blog). A lot of the members of the group are artists, so their artwork is probably on the blog. [[User:Jdrawer|Jdrawer]] 22:59, 5 March 2012 (UTC)
::I run the dA group while my friend runs the tumblr blog. I can assure you that any fanwork is stated to be such while actual concept/design artwork is legit. [[User:Slowpokeisgod|Slowpokeisgod]] 21:47, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

== Unused girl on boxes? ==

The text about [[Prototype Pokémon and characters#Unreleased characters|this girl]] states "The image was shown on the boxes for the games" referring to the one that only her back is shown. I've checked {{tt|the Japanese box|the only one}} of Pokémon Green and didn't see the picture. Is this statement false? [[User:Duke R|'''|) u |( e''']] [[User talk:Duke R|'''®''']] 05:10, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
:[http://www.gamefaqs.com/gameboy/367023-pokemon-red-version/images/box-68474 Apparently] so (I don't own the Japanese games, but I plan on getting them), and I still have all the English games from long ago, but unfortunately without any box inserts. According to the box data on GameFAQs, the artwork doesn't appear on the back of Japanese Blue or Yellow (Pocket Monsters Pikachu) either. Perhaps the user who added it was referring to the instruction booklet? It might be worth noting that there was an [http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/5541/1290018520523.jpg official strategy guide] for {{2v2|Red|Green}} featuring the artwork. It's also interesting how this guidebook credits Ape Inc, the predecessor of Creatures Inc. --[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] 00:27, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

==fluffy torchic==
Am I the only one who instantly thought of Vullaby after seeing the fluffy torchic in the eggshell?[[User:Auragirl|Auragirl]] 04:08, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

== The guy who looks like a gymleader ==

In the article it says he was probably a dark gymleader but to me he looks more like a ground or rock user because tyranitar is ground as well,the turtle looks like a rock type and the hitmontop thing has a creamy dirt color plus he is wearing a turban with a gemSTONE does anyone agree?And he might of been the original concept for the first gym leader since he has only 3 pokemon that again to me seem like ground thus continueing rock(ground) type first gym.[[User:VENUS,MEGA,SCEPT,TORTE,SERP|VENUS,MEGA,SCEPT,TORTE,SERP]] 19:03, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
forget the first gym thing.[[User:VENUS,MEGA,SCEPT,TORTE,SERP|VENUS,MEGA,SCEPT,TORTE,SERP]] 18:30, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
: Surely you meant [[Tyranitar]] is Rock/Dark-type. Anyways, it's only speculation that he's Dark-type Gym Leader (he could just have been a regular trainer), but his clothes and hair style refer to dark. Also, he most likely was not the first Gym Leader as most Gym Leaders encountered first have two Pokemon (only Roark has three). It could also be noted that some Gym Leaders have Pokémon that are not of their speciality type (namely [[Volkner]] and [[Cilan]], [[Chili]] and [[Cress]]) and Rock-type specialists other than Roark generally have very little in their appearance to connect with their speciality type, plus in final product all Johto Gyms specialized in types that were not present in Kanto, at which time it would've been odd to use Gyms that "had been" there before (like Rock or Ground Gyms). I also can't picture the polypod Pokemon as a Rock-type. [[User:Ariano|Ariano]] 12:21, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

== Thundurus and Tornadus color change ==

It's stated Troh's and Sawk's horns were removed because Thundurus and Tornadus were blue and red, but they had later there color changed. So, why don't they get a place on this page? Maybe they can share there column with Troh and Sawk... [[User:Nickvang|Nickvang]] ([[User talk:Nickvang|talk]]) 12:33, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

== Cries ==

I attempted to post this as a comment on the YouTube video, but of course the stupid piece of shit excuse for a website kept giving me an "error try again" without any explanation. I guess this works just as well here anyways:

I've researched these cries for a while now and I hate how everyone keeps saying MissingNo. 0x45 sounds like Crobat or Golbat. Of course it does, because it is an *exact* copy of Zubat's cry. I'm following the same conclusion as everyone else (I hope it really way Crobat), but no one ever seems to realize that it isn't just similar to Zubat, it's exact. This also applies to MissingNo. 0x89 being an *exact* copy of Dragonair.

P.S. My notes: http://pastebin.com/yCry6qce -- [[User:Stag019|Stag019]] ([[User talk:Stag019|talk]]) 19:42, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

== Shopkeeper? ==

Looking at the image I'm quite curious as to what the embryo thing is. Is it possibly a Pokemon or something? Also is it possible the creature in the cage to the left is an earlier version and possibly smaller version of Slowbro? ''[[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen]] [[User talk:Frozen Fennec|Fennec]]'' 18:57, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
:The embro thing does appear to be a Pokémon, but I don't know what though. The thing in the cage does appear to be a early version of Slowbro. I think it probably would be a good idea to wait for some more opinions about that though, or just add it. [[User:Lady Ariel|Lady Ariel]] ([[User talk:Lady Ariel|talk]]) 20:32, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
::I think I shall wait for a few more opinions before adding that Slowbro bit. Just to make sure it is possible that it might be an early version. ''[[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen]] [[User talk:Frozen Fennec|Fennec]]'' 20:39, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
:::I dunno about Slowbro but the 'embryo' is probably a small Water Pokémon. --[[User:Spriteit|Spriteit]] ([[User talk:Spriteit|talk]]) 01:38, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

== It seems that Kage No Mushi is a fake ==

[http://fuckyeahbetapokemonart.tumblr.com/post/47524002079/open-for-debate-removing-kage-no-mushi This Tumblr post] claims that the Pokémon may indeed be a fake made by one of the blog owner's friends. In fact, as a response to [http://fuckyeahbetapokemonart.tumblr.com/post/47524532246/hfc2x-answered-your-question-open-for-debate my answer], the owner said that Bulbapedia did take all the info on that Pokémon from that blog.
Is this correct? If so, we should remove it from the list right away. '''[[User:Hfc2x|hfc]][[User talk:Hfc2x|2X]]''' 06:57, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

Removed it from the list. --[[User:Relicant|Relicant]] ([[User talk:Relicant|talk]]) 16:58, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

== Kazeniga and Rokku ==

In this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YU7M5KAfYWA), there seems to be two Pokemon, (Kazeniga and Rokku) in the vein of Gorillaimo and Godzillante. Should we add them? [[User:Jdrawer|Jdrawer]] ([[User talk:Jdrawer|talk]]) 21:41, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

== Munna in Generation 1? ==

Okay, correct me if I'm wrong, but if I remember correctly, didn't an NPC near [[Rock Tunnel]] mention seeing a pink Pokémon with flowers on it in the cave? If they did, then that would mean {{p|Munna}}'s origin dates as far back as [[Generation I]]. If all of this is true, should I add it onto the page? I can also look for an image that details the Munna in the game. [[User:Pokedex493|Pokedex493]] ([[User talk:Pokedex493|talk]]) 19:21, 7 June 2013 (UTC)
:Correction, they were actually talking about the fact that there should be and I quote, 'a pink one with a floral pattern.' The link to the picture is [http://fuckyeahbetapokemonart.tumblr.com/image/12834082074]. I apologize for the profanity in the name. This is where I found the pic. [[User:Pokedex493|Pokedex493]] ([[User talk:Pokedex493|talk]]) 19:26, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

== Who is that bug pokemon? ==

Hello There. ''WHO'' IS that bug pokemon:
http://images.wikia.com/pokemon/images/9/9e/Unknown_bug_pokemon.png
--[[User:Cool Sam|Cool Sam]] ([[User talk:Cool Sam|talk]]) 16:55, 24 October 2013 (UTC)
:My first reaction is it looks like the old 'scrubbing bubbles' mascot used by Dow cleaning agent. --[[User:GARY-DOS|GARY-DOS]] ([[User talk:GARY-DOS|talk]]) 07:14, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

== Shopkeeper ==

Since the similarity to the sumo character from Quinty/Mendel Palace is noted, wouldn't it also be worth noting alongside that there is an unused sprite which appears in the Gen III games which is presumably[http://tcrf.net/Pok%C3%A9mon_Ruby_and_Sapphire#Unused_overworld_sprite] a redesign of a sprite of the same character? --[[User:GARY-DOS|GARY-DOS]] ([[User talk:GARY-DOS|talk]]) 18:55, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

== Split ==

Unused cries only belong in the development leftover articles. The designs of Pokémon and characters can be mentioned in the Development section of the game articles. [[User:SatoMew2|Sato]][[User talk:SatoMew2|Mew]] 23:44, 3 January 2015 (UTC)

== Kabiin ==

I remember, when I first saw this one in "A Man who Created Pokemon," I was certain that it was a playful reference to Kirby. But now I can't locate my copy of the book, so I don't know if there's a date on these thumbnail sketches that would disprove this theory (ie. if these are sketches from around 1989-1990, the Kirby reference is unlikely). Does anyone have any info to help, maybe have the book on hand to check? [[User:Umeko|梅子]][[User talk:Umeko|❀]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|✿]] 03:10, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
:I have the book too (the 'cards' cover and not the Pulseman cover). However, I unfortunately cannot find a date. I'm afraid. Here is [http://minus.com/i/XgRc7ydCX1Uh a scan] of the page. Additionally I thought it would be worth noting that on page 293 with the monster coming out of the capsule, the page says "Monster Capsule TM" ポータブルモンスターカプセル PCM-55R $198 00, I don't know if those people who did high resolution scans (from Blue Reflections?) of the concept art showed us that. [[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] ([[User talk:Chickasaurus|talk]]) 15:47, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

== Sources ==

Can we please have where we got the info added next to each of the designs. It's nice that we have all this early artwork, but it would be much better to clarify which is from books, which is from interviews, etc. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 10:09, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

== Should we add Mega Flygon? ==

Apparently they wanted Flygon to have a mega evolution, but they couldn't come up with a good one. [[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 19:44, 28 April 2016 (UTC)
:Where's your source on this?--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 02:37, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
::Well, I heard it on serebii months ago, and then just today, I was at the [[Flygon]] page and saw the same thing in the Trivia. It's also in [[Mega Evolution]]. [[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 02:48, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
:::Oh, I see. I guess it could be added.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 03:01, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
::::I'd do it myself, but I'm not sure how to make it (though I may be able to figure that out. BTW, should it get a new section? Or use one of the current ones? [[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 03:57, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

== Interesting Gen II finds ==

Recently I've found some possibly important info, if poorly translated on Gen II unused Pokémon seemingly from the spaceworld demo. Some are just alternate names for know Pokémon, but some like Animon and Ikari(Anchor?) seem to be unused, should we add this? Links:[https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&u=http://hakuda2.web.fc2.com/ir/poke4/botu6.html&usg=ALkJrhiNG-K5r_b7o4kFtVyQ6i4AbBNj5A 1],[https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&hl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.geocities.jp%2Fpcakatsuki%2Fpokemonlab%2Fpm.html 2] [[User:Shadowsonic5000|Shadowsonic5000]] ([[User talk:Shadowsonic5000|talk]]) 01:05, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

== resemblance ==
I would like to point out a few things that I noticed:
1. The unused final evolution of weedle looks like the gen 1 bug type party sprite.

2. Eggshell torchic reminded me of vullaby.

3. Am I the only one who thinks that the turtle might be torkoal?
--[[User:Wizardfox|Wizardfox]] ([[User talk:Wizardfox|talk]]) 02:50, 14 January 2017 (UTC)

== Obscure Honōguma image — Legitimacy? ==
In [https://twitter.com/Katsu_Nagao/status/388880608748773376 a 2013 tweet], a Twitter user called Katsu Nagao posted an alleged screenshot of Honōguma and a Metapod (but red/orange instead of green) from Next Generation World Hobby Fair on January 1998. Catstorm26 noticed this and posted it about it on Twitter/forums recently. More information ([http://www.serebiiforums.com/showthread.php?105571-Official-GSC-Programming-amp-Beta-Glitch-Thread&p=18343949#post18343949 1], [http://forums.glitchcity.info/index.php?topic=7343.msg204405#msg204405 2]). Katsu Nagao claimed it to be real and it seems rather convincing, but is it convincing enough to add to the page? --[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] ([[User talk:Chickasaurus|talk]]) 21:53, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

== Girafarig and Happa sprites ==

https://tcrf.net/images/5/5e/PkmnGS-EarlyBattle2.jpg

This image was taken from [https://youtu.be/-LPNOrsseVk?t=1m46s a 1998 video featuring footage of the Spaceworld 1997 demo of Gold and Silver]. Girafarig's original design is shown in this screenshot, as is Happa's back sprite. Unlike the [https://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/b/b9/Alpha_happa.png sketch shown in the article], it looks like Chikorita's design was actually finalized by this point in development; the only difference being that its legs are fully visible in its back sprite in the demo, whereas they are cropped out in the final game. --[[User:CartmanKusanagi|CartmanKusanagi]] ([[User talk:CartmanKusanagi|talk]]) 06:52, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
:The sketch is just a fanart drawn from memory, so it seems only natural that it differs from the real thing. To me, this in-game screencap confirms that Happa was already a fully-realized "Chikorita" at that point, design-wise at least. Therefore, it should be treated as a beta name, rather than an "unreleased design", in my opinion. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 11:45, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
::I've added screenshots for Beta Girafarig and Hoppip, both from the same footage at SpaceWorld 1997. I will remove the section on this page for 'Happa' as clearly Chikorita was a finalised design by this point. It strikes me that both the sketches for Beta Marill and Beta Qwilfish are highly likely to be misremembered fan interpretations, and that both of these designs could well have been finalised by 1997. However the longevity of these sketches probably earns them the right to remain, at least until screenshots surface proving otherwise. ''[[User:Sui|'''Sui''']][[User talk:Sui|'''Scorpio''']]'' 12:04, 28 October 2017 (UTC)
:::Considering that Chikorita/Happa's early artwork still displays demonstrable differences from its final appearance (yellow eyes and neck buds, an indistinct blob-like body with multiple small 'legs'), it's been moved to the 'Minor alterations' section in subsequent revisions. The artwork should also be kept as long as the Kurusu/Honoguma/Marill/Qwilfish artwork is kept, as they all clearly came from the same source. [[User:Jennyjams|Jennyjams]] ([[User talk:Jennyjams|talk]]) 16:07, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
::::Disregard the above, I misunderstood something. The sketches are apparently fan recreations of Pokemon seen in the demo, which means that the Chikorita sketch was likely a recreation/misremembering of the final sprite. [[User:Jennyjams|Jennyjams]] ([[User talk:Jennyjams|talk]]) 16:17, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
::::: I don't know why it's now in Altered Designs, given the design in that screenshot looks almost identical to this one [[Image:Spr b 2g 152.png]]. Maybe this page needs an 'Altered Names' section specifically? ''[[User:Sui|'''Sui''']][[User talk:Sui|'''Scorpio''']]'' 07:50, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
::::::Yes, I agree but I don't think there should be a section called "Altered Names". For now, I've redirected Happa to [[Pokémon Gold and Silver beta]] because I think it should be mentioned there as a pre-release name. I haven't actually added it to the page because I'm no expert on this and there appears to be more pre-release names that I'm not aware of (for example, see Nidoking's pre-release name, Maiko, under the "Satoshi Tajiri manga designs" discussion below). --[[User:Wowy|'''Wowy''']][[User talk:Wowy|'''(토크)''']] 08:44, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

== Satoshi Tajiri manga designs ==

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DdWog9QVMAAWe2e.jpg --'''[[User:Pokelova|Poke]][[User talk:Pokelova|lova]]''' 03:09, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

: It looks like there are even more here, but the Japanese text is really small so it's hard to read.
https://twitter.com/kyle_toom/status/997019544299294720 --[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] ([[User talk:Chickasaurus|talk]]) 15:34, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

Here's what the list of names says:
{|
| ２１　ビリリダマ (Voltorb)
|-
| ２２　ベロリンガ (Lickitung)
|-
| ２３　コイル　(Magnemite)
|-
| ２４　カクタス (Cactus)*
|-
| ２５　ユンゲラー (Kadabra)
|-
| ２６　スリーパー (Hypno)
|-
| ２７　マイコー・オス (Maiko♂ (This is Nidoking's beta name [https://tcrf.net/File:PokemonRB-GCCXProtoScreens.png]))
|-
| ２８　ブー (Boo)*
|-
| ２９　バルンダ（Ａ）(Blunder (A))*
|-
| ３０　ストライク(Scyther)
|-
|  
|-
| ３１　ディグダ (Diglett)
|}[[User:Mefredbob|Mefredbob]] ([[User talk:Mefredbob|talk]]) 22:11, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

Worth noting that this page also notes the beta name of Blastoise vs. Staryu (as Karabajio vs. Mimii) that is listed in this image.

Still wonder exactly what Gyaoon is, Japanese commenters seem equally confused. However, Farfetch'd seems to be clearly キクパーン (kikupaan) to them (although I confess I can't read the first kana to save my life, nor pull literally any meaning out of that either). Apologies if I've messed up the formatting.

[[User:Breh|Breh]] ([[User talk:Breh|talk]]) 05:39, 15 June 2018 (UTC)

==Alleged unused Pokémon we only know the name of==
The Japanese Pokémon Wiki has had these listed for quite a long time (source: https://wiki.ポケモン.com/wiki/没ポケモンの一覧 relevant section: "名前のみで未発表になったポケモン"), and I think (though I'm not exactly sure), they may have been talked about in old accounts of the Space World 1997 demo, but given the Mandella effect it may be risky to add them, especially Netamon which is almost a typo of Metamon (Ditto).

These included: Aqua, Eleking, Netamon and allegedly shown in a video during the demo explaining new features of the Pokédex: Aquaria, Animon, Ikari.

[https://tcrf.net/Prerelease:Pok%C3%A9mon_Gold_and_Silver#Pok%C3%A9mon The Cutting Room Floor article]

Also on the subject of unused Pokémon with no images from Generation I, [https://twitter.com/ikiro_pkmn/status/996923420230148096 this tweet] (second image) shows the handwritten names of many Pokémon in the poll, but sometimes we have no way of linking them with an existing Pokémon (or known unused Pokémon) or the handwriting may be hard to read. --[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] ([[User talk:Chickasaurus|talk]]) 21:07, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

== Suggestions ==

-Add the other unused Pokemon from the Satoshi TaJiri manga and use higher quality images for the ones already on the page. This includes: A Pokemon that looks like a bird from Kirby, a Pokemon that looks like a Shy Guy from Mario, a Kanto Pokemon that appears to be similar to Tyranitar, and a Pokemon that is a white ball.

-There is also an early version of Combee in that manga.

-There is a higher quality image of the unused Kanto elliphant Pokemon.

-There is a higher quality image of the unused Pokemon that looks similar to Seel.

-Remove the image of Tirtouga, there is no reason to think why that Pokemon has anything to do with the unused Pokemon it is being compared to.

-Take the unused Pokemon that are referred to as "early versions of Gengar & Nidorino" out of the the altered Pokemon section and put them in the unreleased Pokemon section, there is no reason to assume they are related to Gengar & Nidorino.

-Take out the word "designs", these are unused Pokemon, not unused "Pokemon designs".
--[[User:Horsecooker|Horsecooker]] ([[User talk:Horsecooker|talk]]) 20:31, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

== Space World demo leak ==

https://nintendosoup.com/pokemon-golds-space-world-1997-demo-has-been-leaked/ --'''[[User:Pokelova|Poke]][[User talk:Pokelova|lova]]''' 11:03, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

== Pokémon Gold Design Links ==

So I found out some used designs on plans in said game through this link http://comicbook.com/gaming/2018/05/31/pokemon-gold-demo-rom-leak-new-evolutions/ . Can we add them in on the page with approval of course?--[[User:Jacob9594|Jacob Kogan]] ([[User talk:Jacob9594|talk]]) 15:45, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
:We aren't sure if the leak is legitimate. It could be a hoax to hype up the nostalgia train from the recent pre-RG reveals.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 05:25, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
::Are you serious? Do you really think someone spent the time and effort to build a ROM that isn't based off of the Gold ROM, created 100 new Pokemon, added new items and removed features like breeding, changed base stats, and then made the game basically unplayable without the debug menu so they could "hype up the nostalgia train"? Are you an idiot?--[[User:Nintenfreak|Nintenfreak]] ([[User talk:Nintenfreak|talk]]) 06:08, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
:::In my opinion, it's too much of a coincidence that it comes a month (weeks?) after the RG stuff. And there are such things as hoaxers putting in the utmost effort to make something appear legitimate.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 06:11, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
:::Also, it's a demo/prototype, making it unplayable would help make it seem legitimate.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 06:12, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
::::So, it really shouldn't need saying, but it really deserves it right now: Let's ''not'' get into slinging insults, 'kay?
::::The things you mention are persuasive, Nintenfreak, but at least for a while, we'd like to give it a bit of time to see how things look when people have had more than just a few dozen hours to look at it. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 06:16, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

== Honoguma and Kurusu ==

The images used for Honoguma and Kurusu are not official art- they are fan recreations ([http://www.glitterberri.com/pokemon-gold-silver/spaceworld-97-demo/]). Should they be removed? --[[User:Celadonkey|Celadonkey]] 18:57, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
:The images for early Marill, Girafarig, and Ledyba are fan created as well. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celadonkey]] 19:03, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
::As far as Glitterberri is concerned, seems all the images were recreated shortly after the SpaceWorld 1997 event. Given they have font all over them (as does the early Silver fan created art), it seems more than likely they were recreated to display in a gaming magazine at the time. ''[[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen]] [[User talk:Frozen Fennec|Fennec]]'' 03:11, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
:::Ah, that makes more sense. Thank you. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celadonkey]] 23:34, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
::::The fan art was made for someone's personal website, just fyi. https://twitter.com/dmrn28/status/1006084888712208384 [[User:Yoriven|Yoriven]] ([[User talk:Yoriven|talk]]) 11:56, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

== Leaked Pokémon from Spaceworld Demo of Pokémon Gold/Silver. ==

So just recently, the 1997 Spaceworld demo for Pokémon Gold & Silver has just resurfaced on the Internet, and it turns out that there was a BUNCH of Pokémon that have not been used or have been heavily altered in the final release. Considering that there is about a hundred of these unused/altered Pokémon, how should we even list them on here? [[User:SquirtleLover1999|SquirtleLover1999]] ([[User talk:SquirtleLover1999|talk]]) 07:52, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
:We are aware and is being discussed above.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 08:09, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
::I mean, unless it is proven to not be fake it shouldn't be added, right? [[User:ExLight|ExLight]] ([[User talk:ExLight|talk]]) 19:53, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
:::Exactly.

:::Adding to the discussion, though. This link was posted in the Bulbapedia discord: [https://iimarckus.org/spaceworld/]

:::Obviously it's not a source that would confirm something, but the fact that there was unused data in Gold and Silver that matches the Spaceworld leaked demo ''that was not noticed until after the demo leaked'' is certainly interesting. It's not my call, though, we need to wait for staff to reach a decision regarding the demo until anything is treated as fact. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celadonkey]] 23:34, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
::::I, personally, believe this is fake. There are some discrepancies in the demo contents with some info (such as some of Kouichi Hiwasa's account to Glitterberri) as well as some questionable sprites in it. The staff is probably divided too, but I wonder if it is really possible to reach a veredict without an official pronouncement by GF or Nintendo. [[User:ExLight|ExLight]] ([[User talk:ExLight|talk]]) 00:54, 3 June 2018 (UTC)
:::::Reading through Hiwasa's account, it mostly seems to match up, but I digress; my opinion isn't really important for Bulbapedia's purposes. You do bring up an interesting point with "I wonder if it is really possible to reach a verdict without an official pronouncement by GF or Nintendo". I highly, highly doubt that anyone from GF will ever even acknowledge the fact that this supposed demo version is out there, let alone confirm or refute its authenticity. The closest thing to an acknowledgement from a GF employee I know of is [https://twitter.com/JamesTurner_42/status/1002193807503376384 James Turner saying that it was the first he had heard of the demo]. Staff knows the parameters for confirming something without a reasonable doubt though, and I have confidence that they know how to treat this demo. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celadonkey]] 01:14, 3 June 2018 (UTC)
::::::Didn't see the discussion here, and I didn't know it was a... divisive topic to put it simply. And judging by what they are saying here, it's almost impossible to prove unless someone that played the demo 21 years ago says anything or an ex-GF member confirms it. Guess I shouldn't have said anything at the GS beta page. --[[User:Prog rocker|Prog rocker]] ([[User talk:Prog rocker|talk]]) 02:20, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
:::::::I don't thinking trusting the memory from someone who played it 21 years ago is somewhat reliable. The only way to nail it down would be GF or Nintendo confirming it. [[User:ExLight|ExLight]] ([[User talk:ExLight|talk]]) 03:09, 8 June 2018 (UTC)
:::::::: What about the memory of multiple people who played it 21 years ago? [[User:Yoriven|Yoriven]] ([[User talk:Yoriven|talk]]) 20:04, 15 June 2018 (UTC)

== The Game Review Magazine ==

As a question, I was wondering why the details of the Game Review Magazine are current on the article. While I can understand Tyranitar due to being recycled for the games, [http://dogasu.bulbagarden.net/features/sugimori_kens_works.html the designs were just created on the fly for a topic in the magazine]. Would it be ok to remove everything except for Tyranitar when the article is unlocked? --[[User:Super goku|Super goku]] ([[User talk:Super goku|talk]]) 18:13, 10 June 2018 (UTC)
:Eh, even if they were just made as a what if scenario, they were still drawn. So I think it should stay.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 04:32, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

== Another discussion about Beta Pokemon Gold ==

I think it's already been mentioned that the leak might have been a hoax. Now that we've "given it a bit of time" and it's been more than "a few dozen hours", can someone add the new leaks to the page? [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 20:02, 19 July 2018 (UTC)
:I think that when information is finished on userspace pages, it would be able to be moved to the mainspace. However, different users have different ideas on how this would look— [[User:Celadonkey/Spaceworld|mine]] and [[User:Abcboy/Pokémon Gold and Silver demo/Pokémon|Abcboy's]] are pretty different, for example.

:That being said, though, I think that if we were able to add this kind of stuff to the mainspace, even if it's not fully complete yet, it would be completed quicker, and there would be more discussion on how to format it and such. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celadonkey]] 21:11, 19 July 2018 (UTC)
::The main focus should be fleshing out the userpages first. Do '''NOT''' add the leak Pokémon on this article. The staff will discuss how to go about putting the leak info on the mainspace.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 03:34, 20 July 2018 (UTC)
:::I'm pretty sure that the supposed leak was faked. As such, we probably shouldn't mainspace the information within.[[User:Jdrawer|Jdrawer]] ([[User talk:Jdrawer|talk]]) 03:52, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
::::As far as I've heard there hasn't been any recent developments about it. What makes you think that? I'm not trying to argue, just trying to hear your thoughts. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celadonkey]] 17:28, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

This analysis seems to solidify the existence of two beta GSC pokemon, particularly Kotora and Raitora.: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lq971cWWzq8&t=82s
--[[User:Flashlight237|Flashlight237]] ([[User talk:Flashlight237|talk]]) 18:03, 29 August 2018 (UTC)
:Any update on the staff discussion? Work on the pages seems to be rather disorganized at the moment- as well as pretty dead. [[User:Yoriven|Yoriven]] ([[User talk:Yoriven|talk]]) 21:59, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
::New comments go at the bottom of the discussion. Have patience, there are other things taking priority at the moment. Users should be focusing on filling out the userpages.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 02:56, 1 September 2018 (UTC)

== Kabiin, Buhi and Papyo are not from Capumon ==

These three monsters come from a different document and can't be positively dated. Anyways the word "Pokémon" appears on their storyboards along with GameFreak's final logo (which first appeared in Pulseman) at least confirming that they weren't featured in the 1990 pitch. I propose to separate them from the Capumon group.[[User:Qbertpo|Qbertpo]] ([[User talk:Qbertpo|talk]]) 10:51, 24 September 2018 (UTC)

== Add the Four "MissingNo." That were Identified ==

I suggest adding the four MissingNo. that have been identified recently. I know that we must not acknowledge the spaceworld leak. [https://helixchamber.com/2018/08/06/game-center-cx-and-you/ Source.] {{unsigned|Kingdedede}}

== The Unused Female Character ==
The unused female character has now appeared in an actual Pokémon game as Green. I propose we create a new page for this character, as it seems to be strongly indicated that she is not the same character as Leaf (though Leaf is partially based on the character, they are not the same). --[[User:LavaringX|LavaringX]] ([[User talk:LavaringX|talk]]) 05:58, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

== NHK Broadcast revealed scrapped Pokemon "Omega" and early Gyarados design. ==
Helix Chamber has confirmed it to be real as well;
https://twitter.com/benisboy/status/1075154504792731648 {{unsigned|Pichu Madman26}}
:Interesting. I'd say it's worth adding. That Gyarados looks really cool, by the way. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celadonkey]] 18:14, 22 December 2018 (UTC)

== Pokemon GS Beta and Pokemon Green Prototype Data ==
Okay, so the issue has been up for months now of whether the Pokemon GS Spaceworld demo is real. Various pieces of evidence have been brought up, from leftover assets to discoveries of 4 MissingNo, not only proving the existence of unseen beta Pokemon, but two of them matching suspiciously with Kotora and Raitora [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lq971cWWzq8&t=15s]. Many things showed favor of this thing being legit, and nothing giving much against it, that is until, the Pokemon Green leaked assets. Due to being poorly presented, many took it as fake, and questioned the overall authenticity of Helix Chamber. But as of today, scans of a Famitsu magazine have been made public. Various concept arts and better quality images of sprites have been revealed. But what really drew my attention was this tweet [https://twitter.com/helixchamber/status/1126145212785594375]. If the proto assets were fake, how would the faker get these right? They had no way of knowing, unless it was made by someone at Pokemon, although that would only make it seem more authentic. This is definite evidence of the assets being real, poorly revealed, but real. Knowing this, even more authenticity is added to the Pokemon GS demo being real. This is because various baby Pokemon and the Kotora and Raitora line are found in the assets and are seen in the Spaceworld demo. I really think a decision needs to be made, because more and more evidence is piling up to the Spaceworld Demo and now the Proto-Green Assets, and more and more questions will rise if the staff at Bulbapedia don't put their foot down on what these are. I understand being wary to add info about the Proto-Green Assets, but Spaceworld has had months of waiting, just to be proven beyond reasonable doubt as real. At this point these should be declared on Bulbapedia as real, or as fake, and have that as Bulbapedia's final decision on the matter. [[User:LeapingRiolu|LeapingRiolu]] ([[User talk:LeapingRiolu|talk]]) 04:04, 9 May 2019 (UTC)
:Helix Chamber wasn’t the one who released the Spaceworld rom, so the RG incident shouldn’t have affected its already proven without a doubt veracity. Unfortunately, for some people, it has. But yes, I agree. Both prototypes are 100% real. Frankly Spaceworld should have been added several months ago. I feel like Spaceworld also has enough information to warrant much more than just a few additions on this page, and should be expanded to its own pages. Let’s hope we get a full rom of an RG prototype someday, but for now it should go on this page and/or the Pokémon Red and Green beta page. --[[User:Celadonkey|celadonk]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 11:42, 9 May 2019 (UTC)
::I don't think a small snippet from Famitsu, and one where we already know most of the information, proves that the RG leak is "100% real". Unless Famitsu or any other official/credible source releases more RG beta content, the RG leak could very well be 100% fake. As for spaceworld, still no official/credible source for that, so I'm still doubtful on that. Yes, it's highly unlikely we'll get official sources for it, and that's just too bad. But for things like beta content, we can really only trust the official sources and not some "leak" from some "anonymous" source.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 13:53, 9 May 2019 (UTC)
:::A lot of the sprites from the Famitsu magazine and the RG asset leak are identical. Some of these sprites were never seen before. Unless whoever sent Helix Chamber has a time machine, this is impossible. Spaceworld has already been confirmed on multiple fronts to be real by experts, and was also confirmed by the RG assets. To be blunt, at this point, claiming either is fake is just denial. It’s hurting the integrity of the wiki to ignore such important information, quite honestly. --[[User:Celadonkey|celadonk]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 18:50, 9 May 2019 (UTC)
:::Oh, and in case more than trainer sprites were needed, which should prove it without a doubt, two names from the RG assets that AFAIK have not appeared before, Ichirou and Yuuichi, appeared in the Famitsu scan. --[[User:Celadonkey|celadonk]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 19:07, 9 May 2019 (UTC)
::::There's a reason these things are anonymous. We have no idea how anyone would have gotten their hands on these pieces of Pokemon history. Pokemon has confirmed that they look back at old concepts and such for inspiration, so the only way I see it getting out is blatant theft. And if the person revealing the Beta and Assets did give their name, they'd more than likely lose their job and suffer legal consequences. [[User:LeapingRiolu|LeapingRiolu]] ([[User talk:LeapingRiolu|talk]]) 21:15, 9 May 2019 (UTC)
:::::Regardless of anonymity, both these leaks are real. And yes, I suppose that "it's highly unlikely we'll get official sources for it," but at this point, we shouldn't need Gamefreak to magically come down from the sky and spoonfeed us the truth. Anyone can tell from looking at these leaks, especially the RG assets, that they're real, without any room for doubt. Unless, again, Helix Chamber has a time travel machine. This is more than just a "small snippet"; this is cold, hard evidence that proves the veracity of both. Let's not let our personal opinions hurt Bulbapedia. --[[User:Celadonkey|celadonk]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 18:33, 11 May 2019 (UTC)
::::::I have to agree, there's no doubt the leaks are legit by this point. Waiting for confirmation from official sources or Famitsu is asinine, game companies rarely if ever confirm the veracity on such leaks. It seems to me that this place is just inexperienced at dealing with leaks and prototypes. The proof brought up already proves they're not fake; even The Cutting Room Floor, which ''does'' have experience at the subject of leaks, prototypes and scrapped contents, has accepted them as legit. Stop being so headstrong in the face of proof. [[User:Ericss|Ericss]] ([[User talk:Ericss|talk]]) 06:50, 25 May 2019 (UTC)

== Admins -- is Gen 5 betamon info all rumors? ==

Hey admins, how are ya. I made this Bulbapedia account just to write this post.

I've got a YouTube channel that primarily focuses on beta Pokemon content, with an emphasis on having a source for everything. I'm working on Gen 5 now, and I was looking at Bulbapedia's unused Pokemon page. It seems that information regarding the beta of the Hydreigon family, Sawk, Throh, Tornadus, Thundurus, and Stunfisk is all credited to a Nintendo Dream interview with Ken Sugimori. But I've spent about 12 hours over the past couple days searching for that interview, or even a volume number that interview is meant to be contained in. I even googled around in Japanese. Couldn't find a thing. I asked my 22,000 subscribers for help, including some who are Japanese. No one could find anything. It seems Bulbapedia and many other sites have just been citing "a Nintendo Dream interview," and no one has been linking or citing a specific volume.

I'm thinking maybe it's meant to be volume 205, the May 2011 issue. But in that interview Sugimori only says that Hydreigon is based on the Yamata no Ochiri. I'm thinking all these quotes attributed to that Sugimori interview -- about dragon tanks, horned eyebrowless Oni, red Tornadus, and anglerfish Stunfisk -- probably don't exist, and that all Bulbapedia's Gen 5 betamon info is bunk -- all except Sawsbuck and Excadrill. I'd really like to be wrong though.

I tried combing through the page's history tab, but couldn't find where this information was added. I'm new to looking over the back-end of wikis though, so my apologies if I'm just overlooking something obvious. Please let me know, I'd really appreciate it.

Cheers admins,

Dr Lava {{unsigned|Dr Lava}}
:Ultra-ironic if true. -[[ArchdevilAntidote]]
::-[http://blog.livedoor.jp/shellspider/archives/696157.html#more]
::-[http://rpgland.com/2010/11/30/pokemon-black-and-white-scans-interview-in-nintendo-dream/]
::-[https://web.archive.org/web/20111119031953/http://pokemonblackandwhite.net/?p=4142]
::-[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=List_of_unused_Pok%C3%A9mon_and_character_designs&diff=1660923&oldid=1653669]
::-[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Talk:Hydreigon_(Pok%C3%A9mon)#Official_source._Hydreigon_is_based_on_a_Japanese_dragon.28YAMATA_NO_OROCHI.29.] (User Sawamular cites Nintendo Dream volume 205 as his source, he posted the same message on pokemon talk pages relevant to the Gen 5 beta)
::-[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Hydreigon_(Pok%C3%A9mon)&diff=prev&oldid=1448591]
::-[https://forums.serebii.net/threads/official-pokemon-discussion-thread.467053/page-459#post-12163722]
::--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 05:08, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

Talk:Leaf (game)

2018-12-18T00:56:42Z

Ericss:

==Leaf==
So who made up that name? --[[User:Nyoo|nYoo]] 17:22, 2 February 2006 (CST)

:I want to know that too. Following the trend that the 1st and 2nd gen games set, her name should be Green, or Blue in the Japanese version. I'm guessing someone just chose one of the optional names from FRLG and gave it to her when they made the article. There's no real basis for her name being "Leaf", so shouldn't we go by precedence, as was done with Gold, Silver and Kris, and just call her Green?. -Shaddow Boy

::For an English Language Version, Green is accurate, however [[Green (game)]] already directs to Blue, does it not?--[[User:PikamasterADV|PikamasterADV]] 00:50, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

:Internal game data. There is a trainer, presumably used for debugging, with the sprite of the male player, and another trainer with the sprite of the female player. The male one is named Red, but the female is named Leaf for some strange reason. - [[User:Zhen Lin|振霖]][[User talk:Zhen Lin|T]] 09:38, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
::English version or Japanese? --WikidSmaht 08:41, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
:::Both. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 10:53, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
::::This isn't really a good habit to get into. If we start taking unused data as official canon, then Professor Oak started with Squirtle, the Safari Zone had no Pokemon in it 3 years after Red and Blue, and that the Lake of Rage is still a town. It just doesn't make sense. Fire Red and Leaf Green have officially fixed Green's (male rival's), name to that of the original, leaving lone Blue, the third version gal, without a truly official name. While logic would suggest we should call her Blue due to the Manga as well as Blue being the color generation's third game, we are stuck basing her name on what can only be called speculation. Unused Data =/= Fact. [[User:Fishman|Fishman]] 15:43, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
:::::Er, no. When it comes to the games' canon, internal game data > manga name. Otherwise we should be calling Brendan "Ruby" and May "Sapphire".
:::::And no offense, but your analogies are the ones that don't make sense to me. The prototypical Safari Zone in GSC doens't have wild Pokémon because the wild encounters data was never written, not because it was originally meant to not have Pokémon. And the finished versions of the games retconned Profesor Oak into not being a fight-able trainer, and the Lake of Rage into being just a lake are, not a town. But neither the finished games not Nintendo officially revealed a name for the FR/LG female protagonist, so if her name during the development stages was Leaf (which in-game data seems to prove it was), then it should still be, since there isn't evidence to make us believe that it was retconned into another name. [[User:Spideym|Spideym]] 00:03, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Well we can't call her Blue, because [[Blue (game)]] is the rival. [[User:Zurqoxn|Zurqoxn]] 01:13, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
:If only GSDS would become reality, we'd know for sure, since then we'd have to find out what happened to her as well as Red. '''[[User:TTEchidna|T]][[User talk:TTEchidna|T]][[wp:Echidna|Echidna]]''' 09:33, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
::We don't need another sequel. Besides her name, the answers are right here in front of us. The [[Blue (game)]] has officially been renamed as Green. All we have to do with the old article is point out that his English name used to be Blue, and was later changed back into Green. [[User:Fishman|Fishman]] 01:45, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
:::No, it has not been officially renamed. The rival's first default name for the Red version does not qualify as the character's official name. For all we know, his name could still be "Blue," just because it's not a default name doesn't mean it's been officially changed. Taking evidence from all the games supports that the rival is Blue and the girl is unnamed (leaving us with Green), but the idea that Blue has become Green is just fan speculation. I also agree that we can't go taking in-game data as official, and believe the name of the girl should be Green until Nintendo proves otherwise.--[[User:Mezase Master|Mezase Master]]
::::No to you, Mezase Master. First of all, you'll give the reason to most of us when we claim that Blue, this is, Japanese Green, is now Green outside of Japan as well since FRLG. Why do I say this? Because of HGSS and in-game data. And if internal game data says that her name is Leaf in both Japanese and English versions, then we have to assume it is as such. It's like you're claiming that Nintendo, specially the American and European divisions, don't screw up on the manuals and stuff. Even if such material is official, it doesn't mean it's correct and in-game data is the superior form of canon in the Pokémon franchise, so I say you're wrong. [[User:Pokemon lover|Pokemon lover]] 11:56, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
:::::BTW, I e-mailed Nintendo of America back in late 2008 and asked them what was the official name of the female player character in FRLG. They told me that there isn't any and that players can name characters as they pretend (we all know that happens in every game except the rival in RSE), so we only have in-game data left. And if in-game data says that the name is Leaf, it's because it is. [[User:Pokemon lover|Pokemon lover]] 12:23, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Her name can't be "Green" because is the rival's name in the games already [[User:Haruka uzumaki|Haruka uzumaki]] 16:06, 24 September 2007
: Her name isn't "Green". It's "Blue". [[User:Fishman|Fishman]] 15:55, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

==Manga==
Okay, that manga information should definitely be in a separate article. But what series is it referring to? --[[User:Pie|Pie]] ~[[User talk:Pie|♪]][[Special:Contributions/Pie|♫]] 05:21, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

== RBG picture ==

So, supposedly she's based off of a picture from an old guidebook. Does anybody have an copy of this picture? I'm curious to see it. {{unsigned|Morgil27}}

== Blue artwork? ==

I found an image that appears to be the artwork described in the article. Is this it? [http://www.sailorteam.com/fakecard/starters/rgb.jpg]

It doesn't show her face, unfortunately. [[User:GigaMetroid99|GigaMetroid99]] 02:43, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
:We're not sure it's her but she does resemble Blue (Green in the U.S)--[[Santa Claus|'''☆''']][[User:CoolPikachu!|'''Cool''']][[User talk:CoolPikachu!|'''ピカチュウ!''']] 02:46, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
::I was just wondering if that was the picture that the article described with:

''Leaf was supposed to be in the original Red and Green versions, due to the fact that on Nintendo's Official guidebook, it depicted a female trainer with long brown hair, a black dress, white gloves and short black boots, alongside the male protagonist and the rival. It is believed she was supposed to be in the game, but was left out for some reason.''

If that's the right image, it should be added to the article to show viewers how she would have looked.[[User:GigaMetroid99|GigaMetroid99]] 01:41, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
:: I'm confused I thought the picture already was in the article.... I made a copy of it from somewhere...--[[User:Marhawkman|Marhawkman]] 02:10, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
::: Oh yeah, I remember reading in one of the articles something about how there are bits of code in red and green that treat the gender of the player character as a variable. wouldn't this be additional confirmation?--[[User:Marhawkman|Marhawkman]] 15:09, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

== Her back sprite ==

It may be me but her back sprite,and Red's,makes it look like she has brown eyes,despite what the trainer card shows. [[User:Lovely Rose|Lovely Rose]] 02:48, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

== Rival = Blue? or Green? HGSS ==

Well, being that the rival's name also complicates things, as TTEchidna said, if the Viridian City gym leader in Pokemon HeartGold & SoulSilver is Leader (or Gym Leader) Blue, then it's back to the drawing board, but if he's Leader (or Gym Leader) Green, the name of the female player character of FireRed & LeafGreen may very well be Blue then. {{unsigned|Team Snagem Jarrod}}
:Her name will be Leaf regardless. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 02:25, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
Wouldn't the situation change if she appears in HG/SS under a different name? [[User:Tsum|Tsum]] 04:44, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
:It might but I think if the English translation calls the Viridian Leader "Green" to go with FireRed and Leaf''Green'', and has Red still in Mt. Silver, then this girl being Blue would confuse people due to Green being Blue in Gen II because before it was Red and ''Blue''. Leaf fits her best of all, unless they were to go a completely odd route and go with actual given names, in which case I'd bet that Red would be Satoshi in Japan and Ash here, Green is Shigeru/Gary, and Leafy-poo is Ashley. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 22:54, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

== The only one not to appear in the anime? ==

Wouldn't Soul count? Also,what about Mark,Mint,Wes,Michael,Lucy,Kate, and Lunick? Or do it just refer to the main games. Even so,what about Soul? Or is it still up for grabs that she is just a redesign of Kris,and not a seperate character? [[User:Lovely Rose|Lovely Rose]] 03:39, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
:Soul's game hasn't even been released. Of course she hasn't appeared in the anime yet. If she appears, she will probably show up during the 13th or 14th seasons, late 12th at the earliest, assuming they return to Johto after the Sinnoh League and the Sinnoh GF. --[[Gallade|'''エ''']][[User:Galladeon|'''ルレ''']][[User talk:Galladeon|'''イ''''''ド''']] 04:36, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

== Apperence in HGSS? ==

If she's not, so should that be mentioned if she is not? Just saying b/c of the games comming out today.--'''[[User:Midnight Blue|Midnight]] [[User talk:Midnight Blue|''Blue'']]''' 02:43, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
:It doesn't appear so. Just Red. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 02:52, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
::Alright was that added to article?--'''[[User:Midnight Blue|Midnight]] [[User talk:Midnight Blue|''Blue'']]''' 02:54, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
:::Has anyone finished the game with {{ga|Kotone}} to confirm? All the places I've seen were finishing with {{ga|Gold|Hibiki}}. Maybe Leaf takes place of {{ga|Red}} when you play with Kotone. -- [[User:RikkiKitsune|R<s>ikki</s>]][[User talk:RikkiKitsune|Kitsune]] 03:39, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
::::Well many have confirmed her not to be in HGSS, should I undo the trivia just in case? She might be in beta?--'''[[User:Midnight Blue|Midnight]] [[User talk:Midnight Blue|''Blue'']]''' 03:41, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
:::::I think it is too early to say it, it's better to undo it until someone who has finished with {{ga|Kotone}} to confirm. -- [[User:RikkiKitsune|R<s>ikki</s>]][[User talk:RikkiKitsune|Kitsune]] 03:43, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
::::::Alright, I'll do unless you already did.--'''[[User:Midnight Blue|Midnight]] [[User talk:Midnight Blue|''Blue'']]''' 03:46, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

== HGSS (again) ==

Is it ''really'' confirmed that she is not in HGSS? Has ''anyone'' finished the game with <s>Soul</s> {{ga|Kotone}} to see if she is not in the place of Red? If not, the right thing to do is to remove this trivia. -- [[User:RikkiKitsune|R<s>ikki</s>]][[User talk:RikkiKitsune|Kitsune]] 03:47, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
:Okay, anyone answered, and people keep insisting on putting that freaking piece of trivia. It would be excellent if someone say ''where'' it is confirmed. I'm really sorry for bothering, but I just want to know if.someone.has.finished.with.kotone.and.proved.it. -- [[User:RikkiKitsune|R<s>ikki</s>]][[User talk:RikkiKitsune|Kitsune]] 21:06, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
::Could you please stop asking already? I'm sure they are working on it. Be patient. I would do it myself but my rom always messes up by the time I reach Violet City. I have to wait a few weeks until I get the real game. We are not saying that she's in the game and we are not saying that she isn't. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 21:15, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
:::People have ripped all of the trainer sprites (including the event-only Giovanni... at least, I believe he's event-only) from the game. Leaf is not included in them. I don't have the game or ROM to go through the game with Kotone just to double-check, though... [[User:Tina|Tina]][[Special:Contributions/Tina|♪]][[User talk:Tina|♫]] 21:17, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
::::I know it, it will take time, but ''I'' am also working on it. But people are insisting to put that trivia ''"[...] she does not appear in the games."'', and we do not have clear confirmation yet. I'll hide it, okay? Sorry again for bothering. -- [[User:RikkiKitsune|R<s>ikki</s>]][[User talk:RikkiKitsune|Kitsune]] 21:20, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
:::::Leave it hidden. Although, Tina's comment gives great weight to Red staying there. Not to mention that there are a billion and one Red references. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 21:26, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
::::::Made it to Pallet. The mailbox says "Red's house". So yeah. I don't think she's here. However, there is a slim possiblity of her name being changed to Red in this game. But I highly doubt it. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 22:11, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
:::::::Actually, I think it's already been proven that Leaf isn't in HG/SS from what I know after watching the HG video with Kotone in it. I think it might be possible that the designers may have planned her to be in HG/SS. I don't know about you guys but do you think she could be in beta?{{unsigned|LeafGreen}}
::::::::Yeah, I actually {{tt|[http://community.livejournal.com/pokemon/3055811.html found her hidden in the game]|I'm totally trollin', guys.}}. [[User:Umeko|梅子]][[User talk:Umeko|❀]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|✿]] 05:32, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
:::::::::Well today, I made it to the top of Mt Silver as Kotone. Guess who was there? Give you a hint, it wasn't Leaf :D --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 07:50, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

== Absence in other canons? ==

From what I've seen, she only appears in Special, as Blue, and in Firered/Leafgreen. Not in the anime, not in any other manga, not in any cards, not any figurines, etc.. I've only ever seen two official arts for her, the regular one and one with her and a Combusken. Does she appear in any other media? [[User:Lovely Rose|Lovely Rose]] 21:00, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
:Can you provide a shot of the one with the Combusken? Or a link?--'''[[User:Midnight Blue|Midnight]] [[User talk:Midnight Blue|''Blue'']]''' 01:35, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
:: [http://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee357/Pichu_Chu/6588.jpg This]. I think that's from the Game Freak website, they have had tons of official art there. Well, she did appear in that "Pocket Monsters" manga, so that counts..But, only two manga counterparts, and her one game appearence? She still seems pretty absent. [[User:Lovely Rose|Lovely Rose]] 00:45, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
She appears in Pokemon Colosseum too or is that just a cameo or beta thing because Red, May, and Brendon have are there [[User:Pika Blue|Pika Blue]] 7:29, 3 November 2009
:Does she appear in a playable way, or is it just a background thing?--[[User:Champion Victoria|Champion Victoria]] 11:46, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
That i really don't know all i know is that her image is there somewhere i haven't played the game myself i think its part of some marketing ploy at the time to get people to buy LeafGreen and FireRed along with Sapphire, Ruby, and Emerald.Because like I said before May, Red, and Brendon are there too. [[User:Pika Blue|Pika Blue]] 12:20, 22 December 2009

== Can I add this? ==

That leaf's clothes are opposites to Red's. As in Red's pants are the same color as her shirt and her red's shirt is the same color as her skirt. Same as for his and hers hats. Basically its showing they are counterparts.--'''[[User:Midnight Blue|Midnight]] [[User talk:Midnight Blue|''Blue'']]''' 02:14, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
::It seems notable enough to add, no other characters share that yet. [[User:Lovely Rose|Lovely Rose]] 05:30, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
:::Alright then, lets see what happens.--'''[[User:Midnight Blue|Midnight]] [[User talk:Midnight Blue|''Blue'']]''' 01:04, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
::::Seems like a ridiculously convoluted way of saying it. Considering that all of the other game characters who are male/female counterparts wear similar clothes... '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 06:27, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

== Is this Leaf? ==

Where did this [http://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee357/Pichu_Chu/botunennga.jpg image] come from? It seems to have something to do with this [http://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee357/Pichu_Chu/6588.jpg one]. Those are the only two non-main official Leaf artwork I know of, they're all by Sugimori too. [[User:Lovely Rose|Lovely Rose]] 20:05, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
:Wow neat find, I'm not sure, it looks like leaf, umm is it just random artwork or like the TCG?--'''[[User:Midnight Blue|Midnight]] [[User talk:Midnight Blue|''Blue'']]''' 04:06, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
::The first one I think doesn't have enough color to distinguish much--take off the brim of the hat and it would probably more resemble Dawn. The second one, however, as far as I can tell, is definitely based off this design (nevermind the fact that she's near a Pokémon heavily associated with May). --[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 04:28, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

== Blue eyes? ==

Doesn't Red's sprite show him with blue eyes too? Plus, her pre-game sprite shows her with brown eyes, doesn't it? Her back sprite seems to show her with brown eyes too. [[User:Lovely Rose|Lovely Rose]] 01:03, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

== Title ==

Could someone upload Leaf's Title sprite from FRLG? Red has his, but Leaf doesn't. --[[User:ShinyPikachu/Petition|Never Give Up]] [[User:ShinyPikachu|'''Pika''']] 13:03, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

== HGSS ==

The article says her name was in the games. Does that mean she was supposed to be in it, or is her name just there for another reason? [[User:Lovely Rose|Lovely Rose]] 22:38, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
:You mean about the name "Leaf" is alternates for Dawn and Kotone? That just means they just share name. Or where soy talking about something out. Or do you mean about the dummied-out character? That was for FRLG.--'''[[User:Midnight Blue|Midnight]] [[User talk:Midnight Blue|''Blue'']]''' 22:41, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
::It should say FRLG then, because in that context it makes it sound like they're talking about HGSS. [[User:Lovely Rose|Lovely Rose]] 18:45, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
:"Leaf's name was found in HeartGold and SoulSilver's data as a dummied-out opponent Trainer, alongside Red (whose name is Red as it was before)." Seems like they're talking about HGSS. Is this information correct anyway? >_> -- [[User:Zedd|Zedd]] 14:16, 3 February 2010 (UTC)
::It IS true. But that's in FRLG, not HGSS. That's where her name comes from also. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 14:50, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

== Credits sprite ==

It's a little bit botched. Can someone make a new animation?—[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 23:11, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

== Trivia? ==
Both, Leaf and Red artoworks are holding pokeball and VS-seeker. This could be nice trivia? - ''unsigned comment from {{u|Banetoid}} ([[User talk:Banetoid|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Banetoid|contribs]]) ''

:No. There's nothing trivia worthy about that. —♥ [[User:Jello|Jel]][[User Talk:Jello|lo]] 06:10, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

==Cameo ==
First, sorry for my english
I haven`t played this game but I know that Drill Dozer was made by Gamefreak and I found this
http://www.spriters-resource.com/gameboy_advance/drilldozer/sheet/19334
I looks like one of Jill costumes is the same as Leaf.
This could be a trivia. {{unsigned|Virus bass}}
:Neat find. I think so.--'''[[User:Midnight Blue|Midnight]] [[User talk:Midnight Blue|''Blue'']]''' 21:31, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

== Is this looking too much into it? ==

Leaf and Kris are the first female players of their regions and are not reused again?--'''[[User:Midnight Blue|Midnight]] [[User talk:Midnight Blue|''Blue'']]''' 04:27, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
:Yes. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 08:04, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

== Why Leaf and not Green? ==

Okay, honestly, this makes no sense. I understand that you're taking the internal data as evidence, but internal data shouldn't always be taken as canon. If we named every character based on the internal data, then Blue would be called Terry, and Barry would be called Cedric, among others. Their internal files are called that for whatever reason, but that doesn't mean that it should be their official name. I understand that your reasoning for using the internal data to support the name "Leaf" is because she's never officially named in game, unlike Red, Blue, Ethan, Lyra, Brendan, May, Lucas, Dawn, etc., but there [i]is[/i] evidence outside of game canon that supports the name "Green". Yes, most of the time you shouldn't take media outside of game canon as evidence, but that's exactly what you did when you decided to name the DPPt Rival "Barry", isn't it? And why did you do that? Because it was the most logical choice. The name "Barry" is present in the games as one of the preset names, and it's also supported in other media, media which also uses the canon name of Dawn, so it can be assumed that the name they're using for Barry is the intended canon name for him. Leaf's situation is no different. She's already been named "Green" in the manga (that is, in the English version, since the names of Blue and Green are swapped in Japan, but since this is an English wiki we use the English names), and it fits the Red/Blue/Green naming pattern, so why should we completely ignore those facts and instead go with "Leaf"?! It's just not logical. Whatever the verdict is, she'll always be Green to me, and she should be to everyone else, too. —[[User:Tyeforce|Tyeforce]] 08:10, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
:She's Leaf. Period and end of story. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 08:27, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
::Why? Because you say so? Did you even read everything I wrote? You guys did this with Barry, so what's stopping you from doing it with Leaf/Green? —[[User:Tyeforce|Tyeforce]] 15:27, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
:::This has been discussed before, and there was a perfectly good reason for naming her Leaf. It probably says it in official guidebooks or something. '''[[User:Blake|Blake]]''' [[User talk:Blake#top|Talk]]·[[Special:Contributions/Blake|Edits]] 18:55, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
::::I'm aware that it has been discussed before, but to my knowledge, the only solid evidence to support the name "Leaf" is from internal data. And like I said in my first post, there are so many things wrong with taking the internal data as an official name, especially when there's a much more logical name. —[[User:Tyeforce|Tyeforce]] 19:33, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
:::::This is like saying Brendan should be named Ruby. Leaf is what she's known as, that's the end of it. Nothing is stopping ''you'' from calling her Green, but that doesn't make it her real name. [[User:Reign|Reign]] 19:51, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
::::::No, it's not at all like calling Brendan Ruby. Brendan has been officially named in the games, Leaf/Green hasn't. Since we don't have an official name to go by in the games, we should name her based on logic and evidence in other media. Green makes the most sense, and it's backed up by the manga. Leaf doesn't make sense at all. We know that she was planned to be in the Generation I games but never made the cut, so why would we call her Leaf, when the Fire/Leaf thing didn't come until Generation III? And Red isn't called Fire, is he? No, he's called Red, just like Blue is called Blue, and just like how "Leaf" should be called Green. —[[User:Tyeforce|Tyeforce]] 20:09, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
:::::Red isn't called Fire because he's been named in GSCHGSS. Leaf and the Green from Adventures are different characters, just like Red and Ash are. One's name should not affect the other. [[User:Reign|Reign]] 20:13, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
::::::That's a different situation, though. And although Leaf/Green from FireRed/LeafGreen is a different character from the Adventures Green, they're clearly based on each other. Red and Blue have their canon names in Adventures, so why should we assume that Green's name isn't the canon one used? Yes, later characters are named after their versions in the manga, but those are different generations, where the naming scheme has been changed in the games. In Generation one, their names were all colors, so why should Red's female counterpart be any different? Also, you guys are contradicting yourselves. You used the anime's name for Barry because he didn't have an official name in the games, and that's A-OK to you, but when we're talking about Leaf/Green it's wrong? Why is that? You went with Barry because it was the most logical choice, that's why. It's supported by both the games (as one of the random preset names) ''and'' the anime, and the same anime also uses the official name for the character Dawn, so there's really no reason not to trust it. It was the best choice there was, so you used it. And Green is the best choice for the name of the female protagonist of FireRed/LeafGreen, and planned female protagonist of Generation I, so why aren't we using it? —[[User:Tyeforce|Tyeforce]] 20:24, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
:::::::I hope you realize, Tyeforce, that when an admin (TTE no less...) says that it's the end of the convo, then stop. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 20:35, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
::::::::Sorry, I'd just like to know why he's so set on the name Leaf when Green is the more logical choice. If he's the admin, then he must have approved the change from Pearl to Barry, so why is he sticking with Leaf instead of Green? And if I can't voice my opinion here anymore, can I take it to the forums, or will my thread just be locked and I'll be told to shut up with no reason given like what's happening here?—[[User:Tyeforce|Tyeforce]] 20:44, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
:::::::::As much as I'm inclined to disagree with his choice in naming, I believe he is acting in his rights to call the name into question. No one likes to edit a wiki that has draconian admins, after all. However, I believe he's failed to produce the evidence that's required: What is there, ingame, that says her name should be Green? Nothing, as far as I can tell. Barry at least had it as a default name in two games (Barry [the name] was in Platinum, right?). Leaf's absence from Pokémon Canon makes Leaf her only logical name.--[[User:Purimpopoie|Purimpopoie]] 20:53, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
::::::::::You talk as if Leaf/Green didn't have "Green" as an option for her name in her games, either. She did, just as is the case with Barry. But Barry's not the ''only'' default name he's given. It's just one among many. So what made Bulbapedia decide to call him Barry? The fact that the anime also calls him that. And the ''same exact situation'' can apply to Leaf/Green. Like Barry, she's never officially named in game, except for the list of default names, of which includes the name "Green". But she's also named Green outside of game canon, just like Barry was named for that exact same reason, so that's what we should call her. If somebody didn't decide to give her the name Leaf (yes, I know that it was based on internal data, but I've already given reasons as to why that can't be taken as an official name) and name this article so, then people would be calling her Green, the most logical choice. It's Bulbapedia's fault that her name is widely accepted as "Leaf" now, just like it was Bulbapedia's fault that so many people started calling the DPPt Rival "Pearl". You have to understand that what you say here greatly affects the entire Pokémon community, so it's very easy for false information to be taken as fact. Now, I'm not saying that it's a ''fact'' that Red's female counterpart is named Green, but there's much more evidence that supports it as opposed to calling her Leaf, and it's just more logical. —[[User:Tyeforce|Tyeforce]] 21:09, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
:(Gogo Indent Reset) Responding to each claim in order: But you see, it doesn't matter that Green is also an option because we could just as easily substitute in any of her other default names and argue it on that case. Green is only a default if you're playing LeafGreen; for FireRed, she'd just as well be called Fire. As far as Barry is concerned, the name is not only in Diamond, but also Platinum, which gives that name the ingame edge it needs over Clint, the top default name from Pearl. Your arguments that she is Green outside the game canon are pointless because she doesn't exist in any other canon; "Green" from Pokemon Adventures was established long before FireRed and LeafGreen were announced, and is thus an entirely separate character (if the separate wiki articles didn't already clue you in). Barry is named such because it is his default name in Platinum, giving Barry a 2-to-1 bias over Clint, and a 2-0 over Pearl. Leaf has no such out; in FR, she can be called Red or Fire, and in LG she can be called Leaf or Green. Any name is just as likely as the others (except Red, obviously). The ingame data in this case acts as final arbiter: it could have been literally any name and it would have won out (due to being present in both FireRed AND LeafGreen). I still don't see how Green is any more likely than Leaf; Leaf has a spot on the default names list AND the ingame data, where Green only has the default names list. You aren't providing the evidence you need. Probably because it doesn't exist.--[[User:Purimpopoie|Purimpopoie]] 21:24, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
::You're completely ignoring the fact that the character Leaf/Green has existed since Generation I. Not as a playable character, but in official artwork, and we know she was intended to be in the games, but just never made the cut. With that in mind, why would you go with the name "Leaf", which makes no sense, considering that the terms Fire and Leaf hadn't been introduced until Generation III? And I know that she's not the same exact character as the Green in the manga canon-wise, but it's clear as day that the two ''are'' the same character, just in different canon. Since her counterpart and rival have kept their color names throughout the generations, why should her name be an element and not a color? You can through game data at me all you want (by the way, where is your proof that the name "Green" only appears in LeafGreen, but "Leaf" appears in both?), but it just doesn't make sense. Since we no official name for her, have to think about what the developers' intent is. Do you think that they would call her Leaf, or the more logical choice, Green? It would appear that "Green" is the intended name, since it's used in the Adventures manga (which is the closest media to the game canon other than the games themselves), and it fits the color naming scheme. —[[User:Tyeforce|Tyeforce]] 21:54, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
:::The flaw with your first point is if we go by that logic {{p|Shellos}} would be a Generation III Pokémon. If the character wasn't present in the games, no amount of intention is going to put them there. That puts your question to rest as well; Leaf because the Character didn't exist in Generation I. Saying it's clear as day means nothing; you're talking about 'the manga' like it's somehow more infallible than the games themselves (I must have skipped over the part of the game where my PC was kidnapped by Ho-Oh and spent several years in Johto). As for proof that Leaf is in both games, Leaf is the dummied out name for the character in both games (similar that Red is the default in both games for the dummied out character that had his face, as well as whatever the weird name that Blue had in FRLG). In the naming screen, the opposite game's name is '''never''' an option; You don't start up Red and see Blue as the default name for your character. So it would be reasonable to assume that neither Leaf nor Green are options for the default names in FireRed. Thus there are two separate instances of Leaf (ingame default name and the dummied out trainer with her sprite) and only one instance of Green (the ingame default name). Finally, you have yet to show any proof that Green is more suited than Leaf. Manga-based arguments are irrelevant, as they aren't the same character (even if their bases are the same).--[[User:Purimpopoie|Purimpopoie]] 22:13, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
::::Just stop arguing pointlessly. People all over call her Leaf. Leaf is the generally excepted name. As for the reason, I don't know. You can wait for TTEchidna to explain why, but don't argue with yourselves, when you don't know all the facts. '''[[User:Blake|Blake]]''' [[User talk:Blake#top|Talk]]·[[Special:Contributions/Blake|Edits]] 00:38, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
:::::Not claiming that Japanese fandom is the be-all end-all by any stretch of the imagination, but I just want to point out that I have never seen ''any'' Japanese fans call Leaf "Blue." They usually call her, indeed, "Leaf" (リーフ). Other names I've seen from J-fandom have been "Fuguri" (フグリ) and "main character♀" (主♀)... never "Blue." Just thought I'd point that out. :3 [[User:Umeko|梅子]][[User talk:Umeko|❀]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|✿]] 00:49, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
::::::What's "Fuguri" mean? Sorry if that's obvious...--[[User:Purimpopoie|Purimpopoie]] 01:02, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
:::::::"Fuguri" comes from "Rii'''fu guri'''in" (or rather, LeafGreen). :3 [[User:Umeko|梅子]][[User talk:Umeko|❀]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|✿]] 01:07, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
{{indent}} 
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3330177/omg.jpg
 [[User:Umeko|梅子]][[User talk:Umeko|❀]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|✿]] 01:34, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
:Since it wouldn't let me post for some reason earlier today, I didn't get to post my reply to [[User:Purimpopoie|Purimpopoie]]. I'll go ahead and post what I tried to post earlier today but couldn't.

:Even if she wasn't physically present in the Generation I games, if she was, she would've been named Green, not Leaf. Since Red isn't renamed Fire and Blue isn't renamed Water in Generation III, why should we call her Leaf, instead of sticking with colors? And you're confusing me about the default name ''Leaf'''s presence in the games. At first you said that Green is only present in LeafGreen, but Leaf is present in both versions. Now you turn around and say that both Green ''and'' Leaf are only present in LeafGreen. Which is it? If the latter is true, then Green has just as much in game support as Leaf does, excluding unseen dummy files in the game data. You even brought up the fact that Blue's name in the game data is strange, not being Green like it should be (since that's his Japanese name). If we can't trust the internal data for Blue's name, then why should we trust it for Leaf/Green's name? With that said, if you exclude the internal data that can't be taken as fact and media outside of the games, then both names, Green ''and'' Leaf, have the same amount of supporting evidence for them (that is, assuming your first comment about the name Leaf being present in FireRed wasn't true, as you later suggested). They're tied, 1-1. So you have a choice to make. Should you go with the name that's present in placeholder data in the game (which can't be trusted, as shown by Blue's placeholder data), or should you go with the name that's also used in other media, ''and'' is more logical, fitting the color naming scheme? I think the choice is pretty obvious. Green is the name to go with. —[[User:Tyeforce|Tyeforce]] 06:13, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
::Because she wasn't officially /in/ Gen I can she be inclusive to it. She existed as art and an idea that wouldn't come to fruition until Kris: a heroine choice. She may have "exist", but she is not a canon character until Gen III. This being her official debut, she has nothing to go on but these two games. She cannot be called Green, since FireRed is the Alpha game, making the "Green" character the rival (in essence). But seeing as there is no third game to possibly pawn her off on, the last bit is to chop the title in half, one name for the rival, and one name for the girl. Because the rival isn't officially 'Blue' by Gen III standards, since no Blue game exists in Gen III. Yes, he ''is'' Blue, in every English Gen that ''isn't'' the third. And since he's not Blue, but "Green," she, as a Gen III character, cannot be "Green". Hence. As she is a Gen III character only (so far), she cannot be named by the standards of Gen IV, only her own generation. If she had made an appearance in Gen IV...only ''then'' could her name be argued beyond the scope of her limited exposure. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * [[User talk:ArcToraphim|the Arc Toraph]] 15:46, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
:::Okay, now ''that'' makes sense. I hadn't thought of it that way. ''Thank you'' for actually providing logical evidence besides placeholder data that can't be trusted or fandom nonsense. If someone would have pointed that out a long time ago, I would've never argued over her name. So, again, I thank you for being the one to provide real, logical, valid evidence as to why she should be called Leaf. No longer will I call her Green. —[[User:Tyeforce|Tyeforce]] 03:18, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
:::: What's wrong with just saying this: Okay, so there's a "trio" from each Generation, correct? And each trio is named either with real names, or with version names. From Hoenn, we have Brendan, May, and Wally. From Sinnoh, we have Lucas, Dawn, and Barry. From Johto, we have Ethan, Lyra, and Emoguy. Anyways, since each "trio" follows a theme, meaning that the names have to be consistent with one another. Emoguy was given no clear name in HG/SS, so I can understand why we still call him Silver, since Ethan was previously known as Gold, but ANYWAYS, each name in the trio has to be consistent. Logically, what makes more sense: Red, Leaf, and Blue? Or Red, Green, and Blue? If it's that hard to notice people, '''the Kanto trio are named after colors''' Notice how "Leaf" is not a color. Just saying. EDIT: bah, screw it, who cares, it's just a name, afterall, Kris wasn't named Crystal. Leaf ftw! [[User:Chaos Rush|Chaos Rush]] 16:17, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

== Fuguri ==

Do you know that it means "testicles" in Japanese? Whoever calls her that, he's probably NOT serious about this name. And this makes this not trivia-worthy. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 14:27, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
:I do know that it means that, but fans do seriously call her by that name, and in a perfectly well-meaning manner. [[User:Umeko|梅子]][[User talk:Umeko|❀]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|✿]] 23:01, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
:Kay, so some kind anons on 2ch were able to clear up for me the true origins behind the name "Fuguri." Here's the answer that I ultimately received.
::''The very first FireRed/LeafGreen thread was titled "FireRed LeafGreen" (ファイアレッドリーフグリーン) without the &.''
::''Because of that, people responded with, "FireRedLee & Fugurin (ファイアレッドリー＆フグリーン)? What an obscene title!"''
::''I have a feeling that's how the "Fuguri" thing started.''
::''Incidentally, the male protagonist was also called "Red Lee." Though now the names "Remake Red" and "Leaf" have permeated [the fandom].''
:So yes, while it started out as a joke because of the word "scrotum," it turned into a legitimate fandom name for her, and people do call her that in all seriousness, without any obscene intentions behind it. [[User:Umeko|梅子]][[User talk:Umeko|❀]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|✿]] 00:23, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's somewhat like the fail pronunciation of Lyra's name as "Coat Own". They see "ko" and know "co", but "tone" doesn't read to them as two syllables, since it's an English word. And no one cares to read up on kana. You'd know someone meant Lyra if they called her Coat Own in a video. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 00:33, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

== PBR ==

You know, I've wondered this for a while. Red and Leaf appeared in the prerelease trailers for PBR; is it possible for players to assemble their outfits in PBR through the accessories, or not? '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 18:34, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

== Leaf is her most common name? ==

The last trivia states this. However until recently she was mostly known as "Blue" in the fandom, due to Blue from Special. Even now she's still well-known as Blue. On a different note..Is a screenshot of her BR beta appearence article-worthy? Does anyone even have a somewhat high quality screen-shot? [[User:Lovely Rose|Lovely Rose]] 04:00, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
:As far as I know(which isn't much, as I came into the fandom during DP), she is known as Leaf. Her manga counterpart is the one most commonly known as Blue(for silly reasons). '''[[User:Blake|Blake]]''' [[User talk:Blake#top|Talk]]·[[Special:Contributions/Blake|Edits]] 14:20, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
::Leaf's Special counterparts name is Blue though..Anyway, Leaf up until recently has been synonymous with "Blue" or "Green" up until recently. Even now, a lot of people call her "Blue" on both sides of the fandom. [[User:Lovely Rose|Lovely Rose]] 22:02, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Actually, since The rival is known both as Blue and Green, It is safer to call her leaf.
And The PBR pic,the trailer Even on better sites like IGN, Is pretty low quality.
Unless someone has a better vid, we can't get a better picture. {{unsigned|Kanto Girl}}

== Early Design ==

I was looking on the internet, and found an image that looks like it could have been Leaf's original design. I cant upload the image, but I can give a link:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PokemonRedAndBlue?from=Main.ptitleevcce3c2

Go down to "What could have been" and click on female protagonist and you will see a pre design of Leaf. [[User:Iml908|Iml908]] 20:27, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
:[[Unreleased Pokémon and characters|We already have that]] [[User:Ataro|Ataro]] 20:31, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

== Unknown ==

Shouldn't this article be tagged with {{template|Unknown name}}?
[[User:LurKasumi|LurKasumi]] 04:42, 17 May 2012 (UTC)
:In the internal game data of FRLG, her sprite is associated with the name "Leaf", just like the male character is named "Red", so it's valid. [[User:Duke R|'''|) u |( e''']] [[User talk:Duke R|'''®''']] 13:17, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

== Headwear ==

I remember that a few years back, this page had an interesting point of trivia. "If Leaf had been included in Red and Green with her original design, she would have been the only playable character to date without headwear." Well, that was the gist of it, but I'm sure it was worded better. Even now, 20 years after the original games, this is still true. Well, in the Playable Characters' default forms at least. Sun and Moon's protags are apparently able to remove their hats through customization. Could that be re-added? Or is it too random a trivia point to put down, especially since it's about an "if" rather than something that actually happened?
--[[User:BlackButterfree|BlackButterfree]] ([[User talk:BlackButterfree|talk]]) 02:42, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
:I would say not to re-add it. It's a pretty convoluted point, and like you said it never happened. [[User:Litwick96|Litwick]][[User Talk:Litwick96|96]] 02:51, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

== Comics ==

<center><gallery>
File:Sugi art book.png
File:Kensugiart.png
File:Kensugiart2.png
File:Kensugiart3.png
File:Kensugiart4.png
</gallery></center>
What exactly are these comics? Some early comic book? {{unsigned|RubyLeafGreenCrystal}}
:It looks like it was from some sort of craft (like origami) book. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 18:38, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

== Leaf now called Green in Pokémon Let's Go? ==

Just read this now:

https://www.polygon.com/platform/amp/2018/11/7/18072704/pokemon-lets-go-trailer-red-blue-green-trainer-fights

It looks like '''Leaf''', who was just announced on the newslink above as making a guest appearance on [[Pokémon: Let's Go, Pikachu! and Let's Go, Eevee!]], won't be officially named Leaf but Green instead! But if Green was the Japanese name for [[Blue (game)|Blue]], then how will she be named in Japanese if "Leaf" is dropped for "Green"? (Also posted this on [[Talk:Player character#Leaf now called Green in Pokémon Let's Go?|Talk:Player character]].) [[User:SilSinn9801|SilSinn (Pokémon Sun Trainer ID: 768426)]] ([[User talk:SilSinn9801|talk]]) 14:33, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
:So far the only [https://pokemon.gamespress.com/THE-ELITE-FOUR-RETURN-WITH-A-FRESH-NEW-LOOK official news release] by Pokemon.com and their social media sites make no verbal mention of Red, Blue, and Leaf/Green. They don't even provide official clean renders of the artwork of the later four Gym Leaders, which the English trailer showed. Until we get clarification from Pokémon itself, or the game releases, we can only consider this idle speculation by Polygon.
:That said, if her name DOES indeed turn out to be Green, it will contradict what we considered to be the official source for Leaf's name after years of silence: [[a:File:Leaf and Squirtle artwork.png|her Kotobukiya ArtFx J concept art]]. - [[User:Chosen|Chosen]] of [[User talk:Chosen|Mana]] 14:58, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
:: Whatever she will be called (probably Leaf) we should consider that the Let's Go games might take place in their own separate canon from the other core games (I don't deny they're main series, I question if they're a separate branch in the main series) since the new protagonists seem to replace the classic ones in Pallet Town while the classic ones are still existing and out and about.
::(and I don't mean a different timeline, but actually a completely different continuity like the anime and manga that does it's own thing different from the games)
::So perhaps in that case a separate page, for example Red(Let's Go) and the Red(game) page we have, coexisting as counterparts would be in place.
::It's still just speculation at this point of course, we'll have to wait and see...--[[User:DanyyelTR|DanyyelTR]] ([[User talk:DanyyelTR|talk]]) 08:41, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
:::Just wait until the games are released before you start suggesting all of this, please. We'll have the answers soon enough. Then we'll decide what to do. [[User:Ataro|Ataro]] ([[User talk:Ataro|talk]]) 12:33, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
::::Well yes of course but I see no harm in brainstorming potential scenarios to be at least a bit more prepared at release for what may come.--[[User:DanyyelTR|DanyyelTR]] ([[User talk:DanyyelTR|talk]]) 15:22, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
:Unless we see official confirmation that the LGPE character is the same character we currently call Leaf (alternate timelines nonwithstanding), LGPE is unlikely to affect this page's name. I doubt being "the female Gen I trainer" is enough to count as Leaf, because it would be similar to the {{ga|Kris}}/{{ga|Lyra}} situation. [[User:Bwburke94|bwburke94]] ([[User talk:Bwburke94|talk]]) 01:31, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
::Well, she is confirmed to be called Green in-game as seen in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPwtcdhlL3Q [[User:Sucoleo|Sucoleo]] ([[User talk:Sucoleo|talk]]) 08:41, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
:::Don't be funny. The game literally slaps us in the face that she's one and the same, by giving her an intermediate design between her Gen I and Gen III self. Don't grasp at straws. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 09:34, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
::::I agree that this is definitely meant to be the same character. Her top is clearly just inverted colours of her FRLG design, she's wearing shorts instead of a skirt and not wearing a hat. This change in design seems to be more of a difference like {{ga|May}} between her RSE and ORAS design than a {{ga|Kris}}/{{ga|Lyra}} difference. [[User:Tarawl|Tarawl]] ([[User talk:Tarawl|talk]]) 15:27, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::Whether Blue/Leaf is the same character or not, this does not affect Leaf as the official name of FRLG female protagonist. Yea, this is like Kris/Lyra case. Some people think that they are the same character, and Some people don’t. And Red(original/remake), Gold/Ethan, Elio(SM/USUM) and Selene(SM/USUM) are the same case also, although Bulbapedia has different treatments for them each. [[User:E9310103838|E9310103838]] ([[User talk:E9310103838|talk]]) 16:10, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
::::::That's some pomfed logic to me. If it wasn't for the Kotobukiya figure, this issue would be non-existant. Different names for nameable characters exist, like they always did. There's absolutely no reason to split articles. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 18:00, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
::::Darn... had she be named Leaf like the figurine, that would have been more wise of Pokémon as to alleviate a bit the whole Blue/Green shenanigans that the fandom has been stuck with for years. I guess game-npc name takes preference over a figurine assigned name in this case I suppose...--[[User:DanyyelTR|DanyyelTR]] ([[User talk:DanyyelTR|talk]]) 19:08, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
:::It all comes down to Japanese names here. If (and only if) the LGPE character's Japanese name is リーフ, the two characters are one and the same. If the characters do not share a Japanese name, then there is nothing connecting the two, aside from both being derived from the unused Gen 1 girl. [[User:Bwburke94|bwburke94]] ([[User talk:Bwburke94|talk]]) 02:00, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
::::If you plan to maintain only one page, then hope that you use the corresponding official artwork, instead of using Leaf’s artwork and call this page Green. [[User:E9310103838|E9310103838]] ([[User talk:E9310103838|talk]]) 07:24, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::If they're two separate characters, a new page for [[Green (game)]] would need to be created. (It's currently a redirect to [[Blue (game)]], because of the localization name switch.) [[User:Bwburke94|bwburke94]] ([[User talk:Bwburke94|talk]]) 12:02, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
::::Even if Green goes by Blue in Japanese instead of Leaf, everything else about the two still connects them together. she is design-wise obviously not a different character, Red and Blue aren't different characters either and neither would she be, ''unused Gen 1 girl'', Leaf and Green are all the same girl and have always been the same girl. Arguing otherwise is really unnecessarily grasping at straws. Unless Let's Go is of a different separate canon, then perhaps would it be in place for most characters to have a (Let's Go)version page, like how the anime versions of characters often have their own (anime)version page, (manga), Ash(M20) etc.--[[User:DanyyelTR|DanyyelTR]] ([[User talk:DanyyelTR|talk]]) 17:24, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::Yep, I agree. It's clear that they're one and the same. This page itself already considers Leaf to be the same as the "unused Gen 1 girl" -- which is Green/Blue in Let's Go. Design-wise, this case is much different from the Kris/Lyra situation. Leaf and Green share the exact same design (brown hair, brown eyes, same hair, same shirt). It's just that the clothes are a little different. They're based on the same "unused Gen 1 girl". It's very obvious they're the same character. Kris and Lyra were different enough to warrant the split, but the same can not be said for Leaf and Green. The page should be renamed to Green. If anyone is still wondering, her Japanese name is indeed Blue (ブルー) in-game as seen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J26t65DI7j0 [[User:Sucoleo|Sucoleo]] ([[User talk:Sucoleo|talk]]) 19:18, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
::::::Basically this. It's so obvious that it's meant to be the same character, the only way it could be more conclusive is if Masuda or someone else outright states it. This is more like the Gold/Ethan situation over the Kris/Lyra situation where the new name just replaces the old one in canon (If Leaf could have even been considered canon) rather than a whole new character replacing in canon. It also makes the most sense as the canon name (Red, Blue, Green vs. Red, Blue, Leaf). [[User:Tarawl|Tarawl]] ([[User talk:Tarawl|talk]]) 20:29, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::::Look at my side of the argument again. There is no official source indicating Green is derived from Leaf, and visually she's the unused Gen 1 girl with a few elements taken from Leaf. And on top of that, she has a different Japanese name despite Leaf being officially named in Japanese ''during the development of Let's Go''. Given what I've just said, any claim that Leaf and Green are the same character is pure speculation, and we don't deal in speculation. We waited for over three years for a source to say Zygarde was part of a trio despite it being "obvious", so there's no reason for us to claim Green is Leaf without a source. [[User:Bwburke94|bwburke94]] ([[User talk:Bwburke94|talk]]) 04:45, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
::::::::I agree with Bwburke94. I propose that we create a new page for the unused female character from Generation I and include information about Green from Pokémon Let's Go on that page. Leaf and Green seem to be strongly indicated to be separate characters; although Leaf is partially based on the unused character from Generation I, there is no evidence at the moment to suggest that they are one and the same. --[[User:LavaringX|LavaringX]] ([[User talk:LavaringX|talk]]) 05:47, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::Sure. Let's split it into three - "the unnamed Gen I girl", "Leaf the FRLG character" and "Green the NPC". I also recommend making a separate article for the Kotobukiya figure, just in case. Or... I know, maybe let's telephone Junichi Masuda on the matter? Is John Gamefreak's nephew in da house?! *A Poké Ball came flying at you* --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 08:37, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
::::::::::Dude, don't be like that. You make yourself look dumber than you make us look. We're trying to have a civil discussion about an issue on a Pokémon fan wiki. Being sarcastic like that helps nobody. --[[User:LavaringX|LavaringX]] ([[User talk:LavaringX|talk]]) 10:03, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::::I'm not the one who started talking insane. Really, the game slaps you in the face with obvious evidence, yet you people say "hurr speculation durr unconfirmed". If you need an official statement like "She is/isn't the same character", then in all seriousness, the only way is to contact someone from Game Freak, because official materials will most likely never give you that. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 11:46, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
::::::::::::If you have evidence, then by all means provide it. Keep in mind it needs to prove that Green is Leaf, but not necessarily that Green and/or Leaf is the Gen 1 trainer. [[User:Bwburke94|bwburke94]] ([[User talk:Bwburke94|talk]]) 12:51, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::::::[https://twitter.com/revolocities/status/1063193075655237632 For the love of Arceus...]--[[User:YoHaNe|YoHaNe]] ([[User talk:YoHaNe|talk]]) 12:58, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
::::::::::::::I don't think you understood what I meant. The evidence needs to prove that ''Green is Leaf''. Not that Green might be Leaf, or that Green and Leaf share a character pose. [[User:Bwburke94|bwburke94]] ([[User talk:Bwburke94|talk]]) 13:18, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

== Is LGPE Green the same person as Leaf? ==

Starting a new section because the last one got a bit out of hand.

My argument is as follows: Green shares more visual similarities with her Gen 1 design than she does with Leaf, and shares her Japanese name with her Gen 1 design but not with Leaf. Because Leaf's Japanese name was given to her during the development of LGPE, she would have been named as "Blue" (ENG Green) on that figure if she were the same character as Green. Also, there are no official sources that state that Leaf is the same character as either version of Green.

This means that the following course of events is very possible: Nintendo/Game Freak decided to put Red/Blue/Green in LGPE. Because Red and Blue are based on their Gen 1 designs, they chose to use Green from Gen 1 instead of Leaf from Gen 3, despite the fact Green didn't make it into the finished version of Gen 1. Green did take some traits from Leaf, but is still a distinct character of her own.

If any of you can refute that statement, feel free to respond. [[User:Bwburke94|bwburke94]] ([[User talk:Bwburke94|talk]]) 13:39, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

:My argument is that the Green we see in LGPE shares all physical features with Leaf and wears a hybrid outfit of hers and Leaf(these similarities were not the case with Kris and Lyra) and are both associated as part of the Kanto trio.

:Back when FRLG came out they updated the original trio, Red got a new outfit, Blue got a new outfit and unused gen 1 girl got a new outfit, she so happened to be named Leaf in the data so that is the name she got stuck with on here, but that holds no merit, Blue was named Terry in the data, so should there be a Terry(game) page? No, of course not. Had she be named Green back then, I'd highly doubt we would be having this discussion and everyone would easily accept that it is the same character just like everyone accepts that fact for Red and Blue.

:We never needed official sources that confirmed that Red and Blue from FRLG were the same characters from RGB, but we need one now for Green? I'm sorry but I'm genuinely baffled.--[[User:DanyyelTR|DanyyelTR]] ([[User talk:DanyyelTR|talk]]) 14:20, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

::Your argument relies on the assumption that Leaf is directly based on the protagonist from the unused Pokémon art. The creators never confirmed this, only that she drew inspiration from that character. This new Green is inspired by both the unused character and Leaf, that part is true, but "inspired by" is not the same as "is the same character". There is overwhelming evidence to support that Red and Blue are the same characters as the original, especially because they have appeared in multiple games before this. I would also like to add that Leaf's FR/LG appearance is drastically different from the unused character than Red and Blue's appearances compared to their Gen I counterparts, so it seems to me that Game Freak decided to recycle some old concepts while creating Leaf and then return to their original plan for Pokémon Let's Go. --[[User:LavaringX|LavaringX]] ([[User talk:LavaringX|talk]]) 14:28, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

:::You people really overestimate Kotobukiya's value. It's not a Game Freak source (and we don't know their philosophy of naming player characters - for example, if they made a GSC male character figure and named it "Gold", would you split Ethan's article into two? Or if they made an USUM-based "Ailey" figure?) and the FR/LG data name is just unused beta content. The pose and design of her LGPE appearance makes it blindingly clear that they meant Green to represent both the FR/LG girl character and the unused Gen I girl. Of course they wouldn't make her appear in her full FR/LG attire, because that'd be inconsistent with Red and Green's designs in these games. But they gave her some FR/LG elements in order to make her recognizable (not that it was ever a problem to recognize her - to me, Red's Gen I and Gen III designs are way more apart than Green's, but that's of course an opinion). How is it speculation? It's simply logic. I know that Bulbapedia loves denying things until an unambiguous answer is shoved into our faces. But treating the two as separate is just as speculative than treating them as one (I'd say way more speculative, considering that GF is obviously trying to bring their appearances together). They are different characters, but only because of multiverse and in this logic, we would have to split literally everyone. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 14:37, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

::::I propose a compromise because this argument is getting to be ridiculous. We rename this page to Green, but restructure the entire page, starting from the unused character art from Generation I, include a section about Leaf, and finally get to Pokémon Let's Go. In the page itself we should address the character's complicated history. --[[User:LavaringX|LavaringX]] ([[User talk:LavaringX|talk]]) 14:41, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

:::::That I find better than splitting into separate pages--[[User:DanyyelTR|DanyyelTR]] ([[User talk:DanyyelTR|talk]]) 14:48, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

:::::: I never imagined that a small inquiry I made a few days ago would lead to a bigger argument than the {{ga|Elio}}/{{ga|Selene}} vs Ray/Ailey debate that started one year ago and lasted until about a month ago. Welcome to Bulbapedia again! [[User:SilSinn9801|SilSinn (Pokémon Sun Trainer ID: 768426)]] ([[User talk:SilSinn9801|talk]]) 15:03, 17 November 2018 (UTC) (P.S. Splitting this thread into two sections was a wise idea, [[User:bwburke94|bwburke94]].)

:::::::There would also be the header at the top of the page about it having been proposed to split the page into separate pages with the Shedinja.--[[User:LavaringX|LavaringX]] ([[User talk:LavaringX|talk]]) 15:54, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

::::::::IMO, “Leaf” and “Green” are clearly the same character. Green’s design is a hybrid of the designs of the female player character from FRLG and the beta character from Red and Blue. (Her dress is black like in RB, and it has the same ring as the top as it does in FRLG. Additionally, the yellow bag and the hairstyle (without the hat) is the same from FRLG.) She was revealed alongside Red and Blue and she plays a similar role in game to both of them. Heck, her new name even is parallel to Red and Blue’s. It makes sense that the female player character, the male player character, and the rival would be highly connected. I think that just because her new name doesn’t match with a fan name that was given to her long ago and picked up by a non-GAMEFREAK source should not dictate that two characters who, by examining the designs and the roles they play, are the same character, are NOT the same character. But that’s just my opinion. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celadonkey]] 16:07, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

:::::::::I had just resolved the argument with a compromise and you come in to initiate it again. *sighs* --[[User:LavaringX|LavaringX]] ([[User talk:LavaringX|talk]]) 16:11, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
::::::::::I just wanted to provide my input :/ --[[User:Celadonkey|Celadonkey]] 16:14, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::::Well, I'm glad at least that you did so in a reasoned, professional manner, I would honestly have rather had the original discussion with you involved. --[[User:LavaringX|LavaringX]] ([[User talk:LavaringX|talk]]) 16:19, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
::::::::::::Thank you :) --[[User:Celadonkey|Celadonkey]] 16:23, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::I'd accept the compromise of covering them both on one page, ''as long as'' we continue to call the FRLG character "Leaf". Within the context of FRLG, only one character can reasonably be called "Green" and it isn't her. [[User:Bwburke94|bwburke94]] ([[User talk:Bwburke94|talk]]) 16:44, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
::::::I respectfully disagree... If a canon name is brought in for an official character where there was none before, I don't see the point in continuing to refer to the character as an older fan name for the older games. (For reference, there was a similar discussion at [[Talk:Ethan (game)]] where there was a discussion over the names Gold vs. Ethan.) Besides, there really isn't any other character who can reasonably be called Green in FRLG— we refer to the rival character in FRLG as Blue even though the games are Fire''Red'' and Leaf''Green''. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celadonkey]] 18:41, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::::In that case, it's not a compromise at all, is it? [[User:Bwburke94|bwburke94]] ([[User talk:Bwburke94|talk]]) 18:56, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
::::::::To Bwburke94: Yes, that is true. I see the point of compromises, but I think it might be better to have more accurate information in this scenario. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celadonkey]] 19:36, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::I'm agreeing with renaming because it seems to be her new official name. Along with an edit to the name origin section that would explain the naming confusion. [[User:Tarawl|Tarawl]] ([[User talk:Tarawl|talk]]) 20:01, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

:What was the reason why we called the character "Leaf" in the first place, anyway? All I know is that it comes from the female name list of LG, which contains both "Leaf" ''and'' "Green" just like the male name list. Isn't "Leaf" just something fans generally agreed upon in the absence of a single, official name? If that's the case, I see no problem renaming the page "Green". [[User:Immblueversion|Immblueversion]] ([[User talk:Immblueversion|talk]]) 19:33, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
::It was a placeholder in the data of FRLG. It's addressed on her page.--[[User:DanyyelTR|DanyyelTR]] ([[User talk:DanyyelTR|talk]]) 20:04, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
:::Indeed. Nintendo never officially referred to her as that; we only used the placeholder name because we didn't have a more "official" name. Now that she has finally been given a proper name by the games, I see no reason to keep the current name. [[User:Golden Trainer|Golden Trainer]] ([[User talk:Golden Trainer|talk]]) 21:21, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
::::The reason she is called Leaf is because it makes more sense within the context of FireRed and LeafGreen. Red and Green in those games are the protagonist and the rival, and since there is no WaterBlue, it makes sense to call the female protagonist option "Leaf" because that way it still parallels the rival's name "Green". And once again, as Bwburke94 and I have said numerous times, we don't HAVE accurate information for this topic. The indication, from our perspective, is strong that there isn't proof Leaf is the same character as Green, but we are willing to come halfway.--[[User:LavaringX|LavaringX]] ([[User talk:LavaringX|talk]]) 21:34, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

:::::In FRLG, the rival's name is "Blue" in the west and "Green" in Japan. This is reversed for the female protag where she is now confirmed to be "Green" in the west and "Blue" in Japan. It makes 100% sense for the female protagonist to be called Green (ブルー in Japanese). In fact, the name "Leaf" doesn't make sense in a naming standpoint due to them being named after the 3 colours of the games. 21:42, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

:::::Depends on what you consider proof, I think there is an abundance of proof.--[[User:DanyyelTR|DanyyelTR]] ([[User talk:DanyyelTR|talk]]) 21:49, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

:::::What proof do you need to accept that they're the same character? Just look at them! Their faces, hair, eye color and bags are identical or close to it, and the top of Green's dress is clearly designed to look reminiscent of Leaf's shirt, except color-flipped.[https://www.serebii.net/letsgopikachueevee/rgb/green1.jpg][https://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/4/48/FireRed_LeafGreen_Leaf.png] Red had more changes between his original design and his FR/LG redesign. Do we also need proof that "Gold" and Ethan are the same character? [[User:Golden Trainer|Golden Trainer]] ([[User talk:Golden Trainer|talk]]) 01:56, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

::::::I am afraid this is getting out of hand again… All the debate and contention generated by the Elio/Selene-vs-Ray/Ailey controversy in one year is now being surpassed by this discussion in less than a month. Time to close this section and start a new one below… [[User:SilSinn9801|SilSinn (Pokémon Sun Trainer ID: 768426)]] ([[User talk:SilSinn9801|talk]]) 04:06, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

{{indent}}…which I just did right now. The previous thread became just as long as the first one (roughly four 768px-tall browser screens long). And since I was the one who initiated the conversation in the first place, I decided not to take an official stance in this debate — I’ll let you duke it out while I watch the ongoing events. Welcome to Bulbapedia again! [[User:SilSinn9801|SilSinn (Pokémon Sun Trainer ID: 768426)]] ([[User talk:SilSinn9801|talk]]) 04:06, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
:You don't have to create a new section when a discussion gets too long for your liking. Just leave it be. If the chain of comments is getting to confusing, just reset the indents (it's what <nowiki>{{indent}}</nowiki> is for).--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 04:19, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

::My comment above was deleted, so I am re-posting it here to continue the above discussion. It makes sense in the context of the series as a whole, but for FR/LG Leaf makes more sense as a counterpart to Green, since a "WaterBlue" doesn't exist in either Japan or America. --[[User:LavaringX|LavaringX]] ([[User talk:LavaringX|talk]]) 05:40, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
:::... So what if there is no WaterBlue. An identical looking girl exists in association with Red and Blue, it makes sense for the franchise if that girl is the same girl like the other two boys are the same boys.--[[User:DanyyelTR|DanyyelTR]] ([[User talk:DanyyelTR|talk]]) 10:27, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

::Just to contest a common point being brought up here: Kotobukiya is not a "Game Freak" source, but this does not make it unofficial. Someone at The Pokemon Company obviously had to take a look at the product before deciding that it was an accurate representation of the franchise and gave it the official seal of approval. TPC has a storied history of strictness and standards in interacting with these affiliates. Despite Let's Go already being in development at the time of the figure's conception, they clearly had no issue with Leaf as the character's name. Unless the staff is interested in introducing a magical "degrees of canonicity" system, I don't see why it should be discredited. There are a wellspring of things on the wiki considered canonical by current standards that haven't been directly echoed by Game Freak gospel, but have been run by TPC/TPCI and are considered fine--[[User:ThePacisBack|ThePacisBack]] ([[User talk:ThePacisBack|talk]]) 10:36, 18 November 2018 (UTC).
:::Kotobukiya is definitely an official source— we used it for the names of Elio and Selene— but information in the games themselves that would contradict what something like Kotobukiya says would definitely override it. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celadonkey]] 13:48, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
::::Problem is, there is no "information in the games themselves" to state that Leaf and Green are the same person. [[User:Bwburke94|bwburke94]] ([[User talk:Bwburke94|talk]]) 14:31, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::What would be information in the games that states that Red in LGPE is the same one as the one from RGB or FRLG?--[[User:DanyyelTR|DanyyelTR]] ([[User talk:DanyyelTR|talk]]) 14:46, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
::::::His name, for one. [[User:Bwburke94|bwburke94]] ([[User talk:Bwburke94|talk]]) 15:47, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
::Leaf indeed as an official name now. Not only the names of all Kotobukiya collections are taken from the official name. (Even the official names of several characters are used for publicity for the first time. Before that, they were only called male and female protagonists in publicity.) They even invited Ken Sugimori to draw the model of Red's figure of Pokemon Center Original. Prove that the name they adopted is recognized by GF. Regardless of whether Blue(Green) and Leaf are in the same character or how to deal with this page, I Just want to defend the name "Leaf" XD. Unlike Fire(FRLG Red) as an fan name and Ray/Ailey as half official names (They have never been officially confirmed). By the way, Gold(Jimmy) and Ethan obviously in the anime as different characters XD [[User:E9310103838|E9310103838]] ([[User talk:E9310103838|talk]]) 15:46, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::::The gen 1 protagonist was named Satoshi and the rival was named Shigeru, then the rival in FRLG was named Terry, seems like if Leaf should be a separate character than so should good ol' Terry, Satoshi and Shigeru--[[User:DanyyelTR|DanyyelTR]] ([[User talk:DanyyelTR|talk]]) 16:05, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
::::::::Danyyel, I feel like a more accurate comparison would be the male player character in GSC vs HGSS: How do we know that "Gold" and Ethan are one and the same? The answer, at least to someone around the time that HGSS came out, is common sense. Very similar design, same role in-game, etc. Similar case with Elio vs. "Ray", or "Leaf" vs. the scrapped character from Red and Blue, for that matter. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celadonkey]] 16:09, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::(responding to Bwburke94) Sure there is; their designs. PLG Green is literally Leaf with different clothes and an extra fringe on her forehead. Can you name two player characters who look identical like Green and Leaf do yet are considered separate characters? [[User:Golden Trainer|Golden Trainer]] ([[User talk:Golden Trainer|talk]]) 19:03, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

{{indent}} At the moment, we're keeping it on one page. However, in contexts referring to the FRLG protagonist, she should be referred to as "Leaf", and in contexts referring to the LGPE NPC, she should be referred to as "Green" (in the same manner as we treat items and moves that have been renamed). If/when the Kotobukiya figurine gets released by TPCi in English, this decision will be reevaluated. --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 03:46, 19 November 2018 (UTC)

:I Also think we should have the article separation header with the Shedinja ("this article has been suggested to be split into Green (game) and Leaf (game). Please talk about it on the discussion page..."). It HAS been suggested and it's only fair we give notice so the choice can be re-evaluated when there's more information in the future. --[[User:LavaringX|LavaringX]] ([[User talk:LavaringX|talk]]) 12:52, 19 November 2018 (UTC)

::I added the page splitting header for pages that have been suggested to be split into multiple articles. As it HAS been suggested, it's only fair; this does not mean the page will actually be split yet. --[[User:LavaringX|LavaringX]] ([[User talk:LavaringX|talk]]) 10:16, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

:::Honestly I don't think they should be split, and should be just simply referred to as Green. Leaf and Green have similar facial structures, hairstyles, hair color, eye color, and even the same bag. Heck, both her and Red's VS models in Pikachu & Eevee are both nods to their sprites in FRLG. As for her outfit, in the context of Pikachu & Eevee both Red and Blue both use their Gen I designs, so it does make sense that Green's outfit is designed similarly to the prototype female character. As for her name, it's most likely a simple establishment that her name is Green. Similar to Ethan in GSC, it was never established in the games her name was Leaf. Leaf only came from internal game data, which referred to her as such. Granted Kotobukiya did announce a figurine of her under Leaf, but that's all it is, an announcement. For all we know the name could be changed when her figurine is officially released. [[User:Sinjoh|Sinjoh]] ([[User talk:Sinjoh|talk]]) 16:45, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

:::It seems to me that the only argument that people have in favor of them being separate characters is their different names. Which, if you ask me, is a pretty weak argument, seeing how she was never called Leaf in the games. PLG was the first time the games gave her a canon name; Leaf can be seen as more of a placeholder name in lieu of a real name, like Gold. Everything else about Leaf and Green supports them being the same character, with their nigh identical designs, and the fact that Green is paired with Red and Blue in PLG. I agree that she should only be referred to as Green by the article. Moreover, while PLG Green's look is clearly based on the design of the unused female player character from Gen I, they altered it to make her look more like Leaf. If Game Freak had intended for her to be seen as a separate character, you would expect them to make her look ''less'' like Leaf, not the other way around. [[User:Golden Trainer|Golden Trainer]] ([[User talk:Golden Trainer|talk]]) 21:24, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

::::As far as Game Freak is concerned, they seem to be treated as separate characters, although Leaf is based on Green. Even in materials published since the release of Let's Go, merchandise and references that allude to the character from FR/LG are referred to under the name "Leaf" (or are otherwise not named at all, like in SSBU) while materials referring to the character from Let's Go Pikachu and Let's Go Eevee refer to her as Green (or Blue, in Japanese). The blue on Green's clothing is a reference to her Japanese name, it's not intended to make her look more like Leaf. Even discounting these facts, there is a lot of circumstantial evidence that suggests they are not meant to be the same character, such as the fact that Leaf is used in media as interchangeable with Red (e.g. Super Smash Brothers Ultimate) and does not have much of a personality, while Green is given her own, more mischievous personality and does not merely function as a mirror to Red (if Green and Leaf were indeed interchangeable, either the FR/LG character would be more fleshed out in her appearances or Green would only repeat "..." in Pokémon Let's Go). If nothing else, separating the pages into Leaf and Green would make it easier for casual Bulbapedia users to follow the content; especially if the Green page incorporated information about the unused player character that we currently have under the unused character designs page. --[[User:LavaringX|LavaringX]] ([[User talk:LavaringX|talk]]) 05:42, 9 December 2018 (UTC)

:::::Even if they are the "same character", there is enough variation in the portrayals of her between games that it could warrant two separate articles. It's similar to how there's separate pages for Ash from the main show and Ash from the I Choose You universe. The FR/LG portrayal of this character is different enough from the Let's Go portrayal of the character that it's easier to follow if there are two separate articles. --[[User:LavaringX|LavaringX]] ([[User talk:LavaringX|talk]]) 05:53, 9 December 2018 (UTC)

::::::So then by that, then should the player characters that act as NPCs, such as Ethan, Lyra, Dawn, Lucas, etc. deserve their own articles as NPCs since they exude a personality other than silent protagonist and aren't mirrors to the player character when so. Green can be easily seen in a similar vein to the aforementioned player characters when they're NPCs, since Red has already been long established to be the canon player character of the Gen I games and their remakes. Also why are you using a game that isn't even developed by Game Freak as proof that Leaf and Green aren't the same? Smash Bros. Ultimate is developed by Sora, Ltd. and Namco Bandai, not Game Freak. Lastly, the only thing that refers to Green as "Leaf" is the internal data (which isn't very consistent, and isn't used as a basis for naming characters, ala Barry, Elio, and Selene), and the Kotobukiya figurine '''''announcement''''', as in the figurine hasn't been officially released, and the name could potentially change once it's released. [[User:Sinjoh|Sinjoh]] ([[User talk:Sinjoh|talk]]) 18:05, 12 December 2018 (UTC)

:::::"The blue on Green's clothing is a reference to her Japanese name, it's not intended to make her look more like Leaf." < The blue sections on PLG Green's clothes reflect the pattern on Leaf's shirt. Their chest areas look really similar, except color-flipped. You think this is a coincidence? There's also the fact that PLG Green was given the same face and eyes as Leaf, despite her original design having a different face.[https://www.serebii.net/letsgopikachueevee/rgb/green1.jpg][https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/File:Kensugiart4.png] You could argue that her face was redesign to match Sugimori's modern style, but that alone wouldn't explain why her face is a copypaste of Leaf's when other female characters drawn by Sugimori have different faces and eye colors. [[User:Golden Trainer|Golden Trainer]] ([[User talk:Golden Trainer|talk]]) 00:35, 18 December 2018 (UTC)

== Infobox picture ==

Given the unusual nature of this article post-move, would it make sense to use LGPE Green's model for the infobox picture? Having a picture of "Leaf" directly below the name "Green" is a bit weird, but LGPE Green doesn't have any official art that I know of... [[User:Bwburke94|bwburke94]] ([[User talk:Bwburke94|talk]]) 09:00, 19 November 2018 (UTC)

There's concept art and she'll most likely have official art down the road whenever they decide to use that. The concept art will most likely be used in the infobox until the official art releases, while the FRLG art would be sent to the "other art" infobox near the bottom of the page. I'd be completely fine if all characters had main series designs carried on the main info box though like how Pokemon show their forms, with the current design being the biggest image on it. [[User:TrainerSplash|TrainerSplash]] ([[User talk:TrainerSplash|talk]]) 06:24, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

There is this [https://twitter.com/Paulrobertryan/status/1066694445167517698 settei art...] But in the art-book there are [https://nintendosoup.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/pokemon-letsgo-red-green-official-art-1.jpg more proper individual artworks more befitting for the infobox], there are ones for Red and Blue and I would assume then also for Green. I suppose we wait for the art-book.--[[User:DanyyelTR|DanyyelTR]] ([[User talk:DanyyelTR|talk]]) 10:58, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

Some of the "proper" (i.e. non-settei) arts may also be in the Strategy Guide (English and/or Japanese), in the main walkthrough part. A good quality scan would be much appreciated. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 21:53, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

== The "Green/Leaf" title is REALLY necessary? ==

I don't understand why there's a whole bureaucracy with her name compared to all the other characters.

Honestly... she was NEVER called "Leaf" in any official media. This name was taken from the internal files of the games, which is understandable to use this name until the present time, because it was the closest of a name that we had for her.

But it was never completely introduced into the canon of story, it was always a conjecture that the fandom settled over time. But now that she's finally got her name formally introduced as "Green/Blue" in the games, it seems that this commodity is hindering leaving the name "Leaf" aside.

The same applies to the character "Silver" as we believe it to be his name on bases that are just conjecture. If he has an official name one day, chances are it will be something different. Will we simply put on his page: "Canon name/Silver"? Doesn't sound professional to me.

It's been revealed that her name is Green/Blue, so be it...
Just put in the trivias that her files on FireRed/LeafGreen is named "Leaf", which may be just a "provisional name" which is perfectly common in games archives. [[User:SuzukiTenma|SuzukiTenma]] ([[User talk:SuzukiTenma|talk]]) 18:35, 14 December 2018 (UTC)
: I think a lot of people are getting hung up on the announcement of her Kotobukiya ArtFx J figurine, which refers to her as "Leaf", rather than "Green". Granted it's only an announcement and the name of the figurine could change once released, however the games should definitely take precedence for names of characters. [[User:Sinjoh|Sinjoh]] ([[User talk:Sinjoh|talk]]) 23:07, 14 December 2018 (UTC)
:: My argument does revolve around the figurine, but also around the fact that there's no evidence of the two being the same character. My view on this has always been that Leaf and Green are two separate characters derived from the unused Gen I trainer. [[User:Bwburke94|bwburke94]] ([[User talk:Bwburke94|talk]]) 02:53, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

: I agree there isn't much sense in keeping "Leaf" in the infobox and opening paragraph. Even with the Kotobukiya figure being named that, it was never used in the games, so it should be irrelevant. As said, it's just a placeholder name. I recall Red being officially called "Ash" ages ago in a poll asking about what Nintendo characters players would like to see Smash, yet we're not calling him "Red/Ash" in his infobox, are we? [[User:Ericss|Ericss]] ([[User talk:Ericss|talk]]) 00:56, 18 December 2018 (UTC)

User:Ericss

2018-12-18T00:55:21Z

Ericss: Created page with "Welcome to my page, I guess."

Welcome to my page, I guess.

Talk:Pokémon Gold and Silver beta

2018-07-21T10:31:43Z

Ericss:

Talk:Pokémon Gold and Silver beta

2018-07-21T10:16:36Z

Ericss:

Talk:Pokémon Gold and Silver beta

2018-07-21T10:13:42Z

Ericss:

Talk:Pokémon Gold and Silver beta

2018-07-21T10:10:55Z

Ericss:

Pokémon Crystal beta

2018-07-14T23:51:04Z

Ericss: Off-topic

{{move|Development leftovers of Pokémon Crystal}}
{{incomplete|article}}
{{game|Crystal}} introduced many features that have since become staples of the [[core series]] games, such as the option to pick a female {{player|player character}}, animated {{OBP|Pokémon|species}} sprites and {{pkmn|battle}} facilities with special rules. Likewise, some aspects of the game's initial design did not make it to the final release. However, it has fewer known pre-release elements compared to its companion games, {{game|Gold and Silver|s}}, likely because it is heavily based upon them.


==Post-release==
===Pokémon Communication Center===
{{main|Pokémon Communication Center}}
[[File:Crystal pre-release elements.png|thumb|Various images from the development stages, courtesy of [[Game Freak]]]]
A picture of the game's development later released by [[Game Freak]] revealed an earlier design for the [[Pokémon Communication Center]]. Fundamentally, the differences from the final design include an upper floor on the top-left of the map and two machine areas in the main floor instead of just one, one of which was replaced with a Trade Corner for use with the [[Pokémon Mobile System GB]] in the final release.
{{-}}

===Female character===
[[File:Crystal prototype FC.png|thumb|Prototype female character]]
Although {{ga|Kris}} was introduced in {{game|Crystal}}, a development picture reveals that another girl was in the works.<ref>[http://www.gamefreak.co.jp/blog/staff/?p=181 » 入社1年目の思い出：ゲームフリークスタッフボイス]</ref> The girl had black hair in pigtails. She may have also been an attempt to include the [[List of unused Pokémon and character designs#Female Trainer|female Trainer]] that was seen in artwork released during the [[Pokémon Gold and Silver beta|development period]] of {{game|Gold and Silver|s}}.
{{-}}

===Music===
An unused song is present in the game's code. However, the circumstances it would have been used for are unknown. Interestingly, the same song exists within {{g|Stadium 2}} and was actually used in the Japanese version.

===Super Game Boy features===
[[File:SGB Crystal unused E.png|thumb|The unused [[Super Game Boy]] border]]
Despite {{game|Crystal}} being incompatible with the original [[Game Boy]], [[Game Boy Pocket]], [[Game Boy Light]], the [[Super Game Boy]] and the [[Super Game Boy 2]], there is an unused Super Game Boy border programmed into the game, which can be activated by setting a flag in the game's {{wp|Random-access memory|RAM}} to enable the Super Game Boy features. Cheating devices such as the {{wp|Game Genie}} can also be used to achieve the same effect, albeit only temporarily. The border is a leftover from the Japanese version of [[Pokémon Gold and Silver Versions|Pokémon Gold]], since the design is the same and the text reads <sc>Pocket Monsters Gold Version</sc>, rather than <sc>Pok</sc>é<sc>mon Gold Version</sc> as it does in the English version of Pokémon Gold.<ref>[http://tcrf.net/Pok%C3%A9mon_Crystal#Super_Game_Boy_Features Pokémon Crystal - The Cutting Room Floor]</ref> This could also suggest that [[Game Freak]] used Pokémon Gold as the basis for the development of Pokémon Crystal.

When the {{player}} attempts to play the game on a model of the Game Boy prior to the Game Boy Color, the {{wp|error message}} "''This Game Pak is designed only for use on the Game Boy Color.''" is output by the game, with the word '''''Crystal''''' spelled out using {{p|Unown}}. There is an unused color palette associated with this message, using an orange tint, which appears when triggering the unused Super Game Boy border; this tint also appears if one force-boots Pokémon Crystal on a Super Game Boy.
{{-}}

==References==
<references/>

{{Beta|crystal}} 
{{Project Games notice}}

[[it:Pokémon Cristallo beta]]

Cinnabar Island

2018-07-14T22:48:28Z

Ericss: The journals are ambiguous on whether Mewtwo is a clone or not in the games. Also, I don't recall it ever being stated that the Pokémon Center was rebuilt, as opposed to being a surviving building

{{Samename|chapter in [[Pokémon Zensho]]|PZ08}}
----
{{Town infobox
|name=Cinnabar Island
|jpname=グレンじま グレンタウン
|jptrans=Guren Island Guren Town
|image=Cinnabar Island HGSS.png
|imageI=Cinnabar Island RBY.png
|imageII=Cinnabar Island GSC.png
|imageIII=Cinnabar Island FRLG.png
|slogan=The Ravaged Town of the Past
|mapdesc=A town used to be here until it was swept away by an eruption.
|region=Kanto
|north=Route 21
|east=Route 20
|regionnorth=Kanto
|regioneast=Kanto
|gym=Cinnabar Gym
|gymno=7{{sup/1|RGBY}}{{sup/3|FRLG}}
|leader=Blaine
|leadervs=Spr FRLG Blaine.png
|badge=Volcano
|gymtype=Fire
|colordark=B23D33
|colormed=c46c65
|colorlight=D89D98
}}

'''Cinnabar Island''' (referred to in Japanese as both '''グレンじま''' ''Guren Island'' and '''グレンタウン''' ''Guren Town'') is a large island located off the southern coast of the [[Kanto]] region, south of [[Pallet Town]]. It is home to a large volcano. [[Blaine]] was once the resident [[Gym Leader]] specializing in {{type|Fire}} {{OBP|Pokémon|species}}, but as of Generation IV, Cinnabar Island no longer has a Gym. {{wp|Cinnabar}} is a kind of red mineral, associated with hot springs and volcanoes. The island is connected to the mainland by two water routes: {{rt|20|Kanto}} in the east and {{rt|21|Kanto}} in the north, leading to [[Fuchsia City]] and Pallet Town, respectively.

The [[Generation I]] games reveal Cinnabar Island to be a technological mecca. The journals scattered about the abandoned {{ka|Pokémon Mansion}} reveal that {{p|Mewtwo}} was created here. The scientists at the [[Pokémon Lab]] have the ability to resurrect Pokémon from their [[Fossil]]s. Two years after the events of [[Generation]]s {{Gen|I}} and {{Gen|III}}, as seen in Generations {{Gen|II}} and {{Gen|IV}}, a volcano erupted on the island, destroying everything. The only building present is a [[Pokémon Center]], with the Cinnabar Gym having been relocated to the [[Seafoam Islands]].

==Names==
{{Incomplete|section|Check other in-game references.}}
In the Japanese versions, Cinnabar Island has two distinctive names: {{j|グレンじま}} ''Guren Island'' and {{j|グレンタウン}} ''Guren Town''.

In an old [[Pokémon.com]] summary, Cinnabar Island was called by its Japanese name of Guren Island (transliterated as '''Glen Island''').<ref>[https://web.archive.org/web/19991012205011/http://pokemon.com/cartoons/lastten.html Pokémon World - Cartoons] (archive)</ref>

===Generations I and III===
In the [[Generation I]] games, it is referred to as simply "Guren" ({{j|グレン}}) on the [[Town Map]] just like other cities and towns. The island's signpost calls it Guren Town, whereas the [[Cinnabar Gym]] signpost calls it Guren Island.

In {{game|FireRed and LeafGreen|s}}, the situation is the same. Additionally, the Town Map calls it Guren Island due to it being its location ID but its guide about the {{ka|Pokémon Mansion}} calls it Guren Town instead.

===Generations II and IV===
In the [[Generation II]] games and {{game|HeartGold and SoulSilver|s}}, the island's signpost, the Cinnabar Gym signpost and its relocation notice call it Guren Town. The location ID is Guren Island in Generation II and Guren Town in HeartGold and SoulSilver.

==Slogan==
===Generations I-III===
'''''The Fiery Town of Burning Desire''''' (Japanese: '''グレンの　あかは　じょうねつの　いろ''' ''Guren's red is the color of passion.'')

===Generation IV===
'''''The Ravaged Town of the Past''''' (Japanese: '''おしながされた　かこの　まち''' ''The ravaged town of the past'')

==Places of interest==
===Pokémon Mansion===
{{main|Pokémon Mansion (Kanto)}}
The Pokémon Mansion is a decrepit, burned-down mansion on Cinnabar Island. It got its name because a famous Pokémon Researcher once lived there. The Pokémon Mansion has four different floors. Doors can be unlocked in the Mansion by pressing switches hidden in {{p|Mewtwo}} statues. To access the Cinnabar Island [[Gym]] in [[Generation]]s {{Gen|I}} and {{Gen|III}}, the main character has to enter the mansion and find the {{key|I|Secret Key|Secret}} {{key|III|Secret Key|Key}} to unlock the door of the Gym. Many {{tc|burglar}}s come to the mansion, trying to steal valuable items that may have been lost in the wreckage, challenging the player to a battle when spotted. Amongst the rubble and wreckage is information that the scientists who once worked there obtained a {{p|Mew}} and impregnated it with the genetically altered {{p|Mewtwo}}, who destroyed the mansion in its escape.

===Pokémon Lab===
{{main|Pokémon Lab}}
The Pokémon Lab is a laboratory located on Cinnabar Island. It was founded by [[Mr. Fuji|Dr. Fuji]] and appears in the [[Generation I]] games and their [[Pokémon FireRed and LeafGreen Versions|remakes]]. The first room of the Pokémon Lab has two people who will offer to [[trade]] Pokémon. The old man will offer his {{p|Electrode}} for a {{p|Raichu}}, and the girl will want to trade her {{p|Tangela}} for a {{p|Venonat}}. In the second room, there is [[Move Tutor|a man]] who will teach {{m|Metronome}} once to one of the {{player}}'s Pokémon; in Generation I, he gives away {{TM|35|Metronome}}. In the third room, there is a scientist who will revive the [[Fossil]]s the player obtained at [[Mt. Moon]] and from the [[Pewter City]] Museum and a person who will trade his {{p|Seel}} for a {{p|Ponyta}}. In [[Silph Co.]], there is a Pokémon Report stating that Pokémon Lab created {{p|Porygon}}.

===Volcano===
There is a volcano on Cinnabar Island which gives it its name. In [[Generation I]] and [[Generation III]], the volcano that appears on Cinnabar Island cannot be accessed. In the {{pkmn|anime}}, the volcano is a prominent feature of the island, and is where the Cinnabar Gym is located, split into two sections. One is inside of the volcano, and has an arena suspended over the lava inside one of the chambers, while the other is atop the volcano's crater. In [[Generation II]] and {{Gen|IV}}, three years after the events of [[Generation I]] and {{Gen|III}}, the volcano erupted on the island, destroying everything, and only the [[Pokémon Center]] has been rebuilt. What appeared to be a rain-filled crater could also be seen in {{game2|Gold|Silver|Crystal}}. In {{2v2|HeartGold|SoulSilver}}, the exterior of the volcano can be scaled with {{m|Rock Climb}}. Judging by the maps of all four [[generation]]s, the volcano originated where the Gym once stood.

===Cinnabar Gym===
[[File:Cinnabar Gym FRLG.png|thumb|200px|right|Cinnabar Gym in {{game|FireRed and LeafGreen|s}}]]
{{main|Cinnabar Gym}}
The Cinnabar Gym is the official [[Gym]] of Cinnabar Island, it is based on {{type|Fire}} {{OBP|Pokémon|species}} and the [[Gym Leader]] is [[Blaine]]. {{pkmn|Trainer}}s who defeat him receive the {{Badge|Volcano}}. The player is unable to enter the Gym at once; only when they obtain the {{key|I|Secret Key|Secret}} {{key|III|Secret Key|Key}} from the {{ka|Pokémon Mansion}} can they unlock the door to the Gym. The Cinnabar Gym is a high-tech affair featuring a series of sealed doors. Trivia questions about various Pokémon must be answered to unseal the doors. However, when the player fails to answer a trivia question correctly, a battle with either a Burglar or Super Nerd results, an alternative to unsealing the doors. In Generations II and IV, Blaine's original Gym on Cinnabar Island was destroyed by a volcanic eruption. This forced him to relocate to a cave in the [[Seafoam Islands]].

==Demographics==
===Pokémon Red, Blue, and Yellow===
Cinnabar Island has a population of 33.

===Pokémon Gold, Silver, and Crystal===
Cinnabar Island has a population of 6, all residing in the Pokémon Center. This is because every other building was destroyed by a volcanic eruption.

===Pokémon FireRed and LeafGreen===
In {{game|FireRed and LeafGreen|s}}, before the destruction of the island in the [[Generation II]] and [[Generation IV]] games, Cinnabar Island has a population of 36.

===Pokémon HeartGold and SoulSilver===
Cinnabar Island has a population of nine, making it one of the smallest towns in the [[Pokémon world]]. The volcano eruption destroyed most of the island, with the [[Pokémon Center]] being the only building remaining.

==Poké Mart==
{{shop|Generation I}}
{{shoprow|{{shopitem|Ultra Ball|1200}}|{{shopitem|Great Ball|600}}}}
{{shoprow|{{shopitem|Hyper Potion|1500}}|{{shopitem|Max Repel|700}}}}
{{shoprow|{{shopitem|Escape Rope|550}}|{{shopitem|Full Heal|600}}}}
{{shoprow|{{shopitem|Revive|1500}}}}
{{shopfooter|multiple=yes}}
{{shop|Generation III}}
{{shoprow|{{shopitem|Ultra Ball|1200}}|{{shopitem|Great Ball|600}}}}
{{shoprow|{{shopitem|Hyper Potion|1200}}|{{shopitem|Revive|1500}}}}
{{shoprow|{{shopitem|Full Heal|600}}|{{shopitem|Escape Rope|550}}}}
{{shoprow|{{shopitem|Max Repel|700}}|}}
{{shopfooter}}

==Items==
{{itlisth|volcano}}
{{itemlist|TM Normal|From a man inside the second room of the [[Pokémon Lab]]|R=yes|B=yes|Y=yes|display={{TM|35|Metronome}}}}
{{Itemlist|Stardust|Held by Tangeny, a {{p|Tangela}} the {{player}} can obtain in a {{DL|In-game trade|Generation III|trade}}|FR=yes|LG=yes}}
{{Itemlist|Rare Candy|In the upper/middle accessible corner of the island ''(hidden)''|G=yes|S=yes|C=yes}}
{{Itemlist|Rare Candy|On a rock at the north-west corner of the island (requires {{m|Rock Climb}}) ''(hidden)''|HG=yes|SS=yes}}
{{Itemlist|Iron|On a rock in the south-eastern corner of the island (requires {{m|Rock Climb}}) ''(hidden)''|HG=yes|SS=yes}}
{{Itemlist|Star Piece|On a rock on the erupted volcano (requires {{m|Rock Climb}}) ''(hidden)''|HG=yes|SS=yes}}
{{Itemlist|Magmarizer|On the erupted volcano (requires {{m|Rock Climb}})|HG=yes|SS=yes}}
{{itlistfoot|volcano}}

==Pokémon==
===Generation I===
{{Catch/header|volcano|no}}
{{Catch/div|ocean|Fishing}}
{{Catch/entry1|129|Magikarp|yes|yes|yes|Fish Old|5|100%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entry1|060|Poliwag|yes|yes|yes|Fish Good|10|50%|type1=Water}}{{Catch/entry1|118|Goldeen|yes|yes|yes|Fish Good|10|50%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entry1|072|Tentacool|no|no|yes|Fish Super|15, 30|40%|type1=Water|type2=Poison}}
{{Catch/entry1|090|Shellder|yes|yes|no|Fish Super|15|25%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entry1|116|Horsea|yes|yes|no|Fish Super|15|25%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entry1|118|Goldeen|yes|yes|no|Fish Super|15|25%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entry1|120|Staryu|yes|yes|no|Fish Super|15|25%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entry1|120|Staryu|no|no|yes|Fish Super|10, 15|60%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/div|volcano|Gift Pokémon}}
{{Catch/entry1|138|Omanyte|yes|yes|yes|Helix|30|One|type1=Rock|type2=Water}}
{{Catch/entry1|140|Kabuto|yes|yes|yes|Dome|30|One|type1=Rock|type2=Water}}
{{Catch/entry1|142|Aerodactyl|yes|yes|yes|Amber|30|One|type1=Rock|type2=Flying}}
{{Catch/div|volcano|Special}}
{{Catch/entry1|086|Seel|yes|yes|no|Trade|tradenum=077|tradename=Ponyta|The same as the traded Pokémon|One|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entry1|087|Dewgong|no|no|yes|Trade|tradenum=058|tradename=Growlithe|The same as the traded Pokémon|One|type1=Water|type2=Ice}}
{{Catch/entry1|089|Muk|no|no|yes|Trade|tradenum=115|tradename=Kangaskhan|The same as the traded Pokémon|One|type1=Poison}}
{{Catch/entry1|101|Electrode|yes|yes|no|Trade|tradenum=026|tradename=Raichu|The same as the traded Pokémon|One|type1=Electric}}
{{Catch/entry1|112|Rhydon|no|no|yes|Trade|tradenum=055|tradename=Golduck|The same as the traded Pokémon|One|type1=Ground|type2=Rock}}
{{Catch/entry1|114|Tangela|yes|yes|no|Trade|tradenum=048|tradename=Venonat|The same as the traded Pokémon|One|type1=Grass}}
{{catch/footer|volcano}}

===Generation II===
{{Catch/header|volcano|yes}}
{{Catch/div|ocean|Surfing}}
{{Catch/entry2|072|Tentacool|yes|yes|yes|Surf|30-39|all=90%|type1=Water|type2=Poison}}
{{Catch/entry2|073|Tentacruel|yes|yes|yes|Surf|35-39|all=10%|type1=Water|type2=Poison}}
{{Catch/div|ocean|Fishing}}
{{Catch/entry2|129|Magikarp|yes|yes|yes|Fish Old|10|all=85%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entry2|072|Tentacool|yes|yes|yes|Fish Old|10|all=15%|type1=Water|type2=Poison}}
{{Catch/entry2|072|Tentacool|yes|yes|yes|Fish Good|20|all=35%|type1=Water|type2=Poison}}
{{Catch/entry2|129|Magikarp|yes|yes|yes|Fish Good|20|all=35%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entry2|170|Chinchou|yes|yes|yes|Fish Good|20|all=20%|type1=Water|type2=Electric}}
{{Catch/entry2|090|Shellder|yes|yes|yes|Fish Good|20|all=10%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entry2|170|Chinchou|yes|yes|yes|Fish Super|40|all=40%|type1=Water|type2=Electric}}
{{Catch/entry2|090|Shellder|yes|yes|yes|Fish Super|40|all=30%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entry2|073|Tentacruel|yes|yes|yes|Fish Super|40|all=20%|type1=Water|type2=Poison}}
{{Catch/entry2|171|Lanturn|yes|yes|yes|Fish Super|40|all=10%|type1=Water|type2=Electric}}
{{Catch/footer|volcano}}

===Generation III===
{{catch/header|volcano|no}}
{{Catch/div|ocean|Surfing}}
{{Catch/entryfl|072|Tentacool|yes|yes|Surf|5-40|100%|type1=Water|type2=Poison}}
{{Catch/div|ocean|Fishing}}
{{Catch/entryfl|129|Magikarp|yes|yes|Fish Old|5|100%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entryfl|116|Horsea|yes|no|Fish Good|5-15|60%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entryfl|116|Horsea|no|yes|Fish Good|5-15|20%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entryfl|098|Krabby|yes|no|Fish Good|5-15|20%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entryfl|098|Krabby|no|yes|Fish Good|5-15|60%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entryfl|129|Magikarp|yes|yes|Fish Good|5-15|20%|type1=Water}}
{{catch/entryfl|090|Shellder|yes|no|Fish Super|15-25|40%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entryfl|116|Horsea|yes|no|Fish Super|15-25|40%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entryfl|098|Krabby|no|yes|Fish Super|15-25|40%|type1=Water}}
{{catch/entryfl|120|Staryu|no|yes|Fish Super|15-25|40%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entryfl|130|Gyarados|yes|yes|Fish Super|15-25|15%|type1=Water|type2=Flying}}
{{Catch/entryfl|117|Seadra|yes|no|Fish Super|25-35|4%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entryfl|080|Slowbro|no|yes|Fish Super|25-35|4%|type1=Water|type2=Psychic}}
{{Catch/entryfl|054|Psyduck|yes|no|Fish Super|25-35|1%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entryfl|079|Slowpoke|no|yes|Fish Super|25-35|1%|type1=Water|type2=Psychic}}
{{Catch/div|volcano|Gift Pokémon}}
{{Catch/entryfl|138|Omanyte|yes|yes|Helix|5|One|type1=Rock|type2=Water}}
{{Catch/entryfl|140|Kabuto|yes|yes|Dome|5|One|type1=Rock|type2=Water}}
{{Catch/entryfl|142|Aerodactyl|yes|yes|Amber|5|One|type1=Rock|type2=Flying}}
{{Catch/div|volcano|Special}}
{{Catch/entryfl|086|Seel|yes|yes|Trade|tradenum=077|tradename=Ponyta|The same as the traded Pokémon|One|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entryfl|101|Electrode|yes|yes|Trade|tradenum=026|tradename=Raichu|The same as the traded Pokémon|One|type1=Electric}}
{{Catch/entryfl|114|Tangela|yes|yes|Trade|tradenum=048|tradename=Venonat|The same as the traded Pokémon|One|type1=Grass}}
{{Catch/footer|volcano}}

===Generation IV===
{{Catch/header|volcano|4}}
{{Catch/div|ocean|Surfing}}
{{Catch/entryhs|072|Tentacool|yes|yes|Surf|30-35|all=90%|type1=Water|type2=Poison}}
{{Catch/entryhs|073|Tentacruel|yes|yes|Surf|35|all=10%|type1=Water|type2=Poison}}
{{Catch/div|ocean|Fishing}}
{{Catch/entryhs|129|Magikarp|yes|yes|Fish Old|10|all=95%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entryhs|072|Tentacool|yes|yes|Fish Old|10|all=5%|type1=Water|type2=Poison}}
{{Catch/entryhs|129|Magikarp|yes|yes|Fish Good|20|all=60%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entryhs|072|Tentacool|yes|yes|Fish Good|20|all=30%|type1=Water|type2=Poison}}
{{Catch/entryhs|170|Chinchou|yes|yes|Fish Good|20|all=7%|type1=Water|type2=Electric}}
{{Catch/entryhs|090|Shellder|yes|yes|Fish Good|20|all=3%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entryhs|170|Chinchou|yes|yes|Fish Super|40|all=60%|type1=Water|type2=Electric}}
{{Catch/entryhs|090|Shellder|yes|yes|Fish Super|40|all=30%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entryhs|073|Tentacruel|yes|yes|Fish Super|40|all=7%|type1=Water|type2=Poison}}
{{Catch/entryhs|171|Lanturn|yes|yes|Fish Super|40|all=3%|type1=Water|type2=Electric}}
{{Catch/footer|volcano}}

==Differences between generations==
Cinnabar Island has changed dramatically between [[Generation]]s {{Gen|I}} and {{Gen|II}} as the city has been totally replaced by a large erupted volcano, removing everything except for the [[Pokémon Center]]. After the eruption, the [[Gym]] was relocated to the [[Seafoam Islands]]. {{ga|Blue}} can be first found at Cinnabar Island, because he was in a bad mood and decided to take a stroll there. In [[Generation III]], there are a few changes with the visual design, as the {{ka|Pokémon Mansion}} and [[Pokémon Lab]] are slightly larger along with more sandy beach areas. The first and last questions in the Cinnabar Gym have also been changed slightly for clarification. In [[Generation IV]], the island stays much the same as [[Generation II]], although the volcano is now climbable by {{m|Rock Climb}}.

==In the spin-off games==
===In Pokémon Pinball===
In {{g|Pinball}}, Cinnabar Island appears on the Red and Blue tables; catchable Pokémon include {{p|Growlithe}}, {{p|Ponyta}}, {{p|Grimer}}, {{p|Koffing}}, {{p|Tangela}}, {{p|Magmar}}, {{p|Omanyte}}, {{p|Kabuto}} and {{p|Aerodactyl}}.

===In Pokkén Tournament===
While Cinnabar Island does not appear in [[Pokkén Tournament]], when fighting [[Shadow Mewtwo]], sometimes [[Nia]] will mention having read the "[[Pokémon Mansion journals|Cinnabar Island docs]]" on Mewtwo. However, the words "Cinnabar Island" aren't in text, and thus are only noticeable if her voice is turned on.

==In the anime==
===In the main series===
[[File:Cinnabar Island anime.png|thumb|220px|Cinnabar Island in the anime]]
[[File:Cinnabar Island volcano.png|thumb|left|220px|Cinnabar Volcano in the anime]]
Cinnabar Island is considered a mere beach resort town famous for its hot springs in the {{pkmn|anime}}. A bird's-eye view shows the majority of the island is dense forest with the volcano at its center, while the township only occupies a small portion. It lies close to the port and the ocean, featuring many hotels, souvenir shops, restaurants, and food stalls. Many {{pkmn|Trainer}}s skip the island entirely or go there for a break from {{pkmn|battle|battling}}. [[Blaine]] points out his dilapidated [[Gym]] to {{Ash}} and {{ashfr}}, blaming the roaring tourist trade for its closure. Blaine runs the Big Riddle Inn, a hotel with a clock tower, and bath house with separate male- and female-exclusive hot springs for tourists. He wears a hippie disguise to hide his real identity as [[Gym Leader]]. His Gym is located inside of the volcano.

In ''[[EP058|Riddle Me This]]'', Ash and his friends foiled Team Rocket's latest exploits at the [[Pokémon Lab]]. Ash was also trying to locate the Gym so he could challenge Blaine. The riddle man eventually informed Ash that Blaine built another Gym inside of a volcano. Thanks to [[Misty's Togepi]] jumping on one of the hot spring taps, Ash and his friends discovered the new Cinnabar Gym; it was connected to Blaine's Big Riddle Inn via a secret tunnel. It has two sections; one is inside of the volcano, and has an arena suspended over the lava inside one of the chambers. The other arena is in the top crater of the volcano itself, and features rock pillars above the lava flow.

When Ash and his friends went in, they learned that the riddle man was actually Blaine in disguise. Ash and Blaine battled, but Ash had a series of misfortunes. The first was his {{AP|Squirtle}} being defeated by Blaine's {{p|Ninetales}}. Then, his {{AP|Charizard}} refused to listen to him. Finally, {{AP|Pikachu}} received severe burns caused by [[Blaine's Magmar]] and its powerful {{m|Fire Blast}}. Ash called off the battle, not wanting Pikachu to fall in the lava. In ''[[EP059|Volcanic Panic]]'', after {{TRT}} had almost destroyed Blaine's Gym (and Cinnabar Island as a result), he agreed to a rematch on his alternate battlefield on top of the volcano. This time, Ash was able to defeat Blaine with the help of his Charizard and its {{m|Seismic Toss}}, earning himself the {{badge|Volcano}}.

In ''[[EP060|Beach Blank-Out Blastoise]]'', at the request of a wild {{p|Wartortle}}, Ash and his friends made their way via boat to an unnamed island near Cinnabar Island, inhabited exclusively by a {{p|Blastoise}} and its pre-evolutions. They helped to awaken the entire colony after {{an|Jigglypuff}} was lodged into one of Blastoise's cannons while swimming and rescued them from being captured by Team Rocket.

===In Pokémon Origins===
Cinnabar Island was visited by {{OBP|Red|Origins}} in ''[[PO03|File 3: Giovanni]]''. During his visit, he first explored the {{ka|Pokémon Mansion}}, where he discovered a [[Pokémon Mansion journals|journal]] that would [[PO04|later]] help him identify [[Cerulean Cave]]'s mysterious Pokémon as {{p|Mewtwo}}. After exploring the Mansion, Red challenged Blaine to a Gym battle and won, earning the Volcano Badge.

==In the manga==
===In the Pokémon Adventures manga===
[[File:Cinnabar Island Adventures.png|thumb|200px|Cinnabar Island in the Pokémon Adventures manga]]
Cinnabar Island debuted in ''[[PS026|Holy Moltres]]'', where [[Team Rocket]] was trying to hunt down [[Blaine]] on the island because of him leaving them. When Team Rocket threatened {{adv|Red}}, Blaine showed himself and rescued him. When they tried to escape, Team Rocket sent {{DL|Legendary birds (Adventures)|Moltres}} after them. As Blaine knew that they needed a {{t|Flying}} Pokémon to fight Moltres effectively, he sent Red to [[Pokémon Lab|his secret laboratory]] to revive his [[Old Amber]]. Thanks to the [[Aero]]dactyl revived by Red, Team Rocket and Moltres were forced to retreat.

In ''[[PS064|Putting It on the Line...Against Arcanine]]'', {{adv|Yellow}} arrived at Cinnabar Island from the [[Seafoam Islands]]. At the top of the volcano, she saw Blaine training with {{tc|Camper}} Evan, after which he invited her to his laboratory. They soon received emergency messages from all over [[Kanto]], revealing that the [[Elite Four]] had started their attack on the region. Both Blaine and Yellow then departed to launch a direct assault against the Elite Four's base at [[Cerise Island]].

Cinnabar Island made a brief reappearance in ''[[PS295|Double Down Deoxys]]'', when Camper Evan and {{tc|Super Nerd}} Miles visited Blaine at his laboratory. Due to the mark left on his arm by {{adv|Mewtwo}}'s cells, Blaine was able to sense Mewtwo's agitation, speculating that it was due to {{adv|Mew}} heading back to the Kanto mainland from [[Faraway Island]].
{{-}}

==Trivia==
* It was long believed that Cinnabar Island once was the tip of a {{wp|stratovolcano}} or a {{wp|shield volcano}} since no mountain was visible on the island for the first three [[generation]]s. This was changed in {{game|HeartGold and SoulSilver|s}} where a mountain stratovolcano is actually there and can be reached by using {{m|Rock Climb}}, indicating that lack of diverse scenery in the past games was the reason for no mountain being there. However, all map artworks throughout the generations have shown the volcano to be there.
* Cinnabar Island has many glitches associated with it in the [[Generation I]] games, such as the [[old man glitch]], due to programming oversights on the island's coast. There is also {{DL|List of glitches in Generation I|Man on roof|a trick to see a man on the roof}} of the [[Cinnabar Gym|Gym]]. However, both of these glitches were fixed in some regional versions.
* Cinnabar Island and [[Vermilion City]] are named after the same color in the English versions of the Pokémon games but not in the Japanese versions, since {{wp|crimson}} ({{j|{{jwp|紅蓮|グレン}}}} ''guren'', "crimson lotus") refers to a shade of red while {{wp|vermilion}} ({{j|{{jwp|朽葉|クチバ}}}} ''kuchiba'', "decayed leaves") refers to a shade of orange. {{wp|Cinnabar}} is an orange-red mineral that produces the orange-red pigment vermilion. This explains why Cinnabar Island is colored red while Vermilion City is colored orange in the [[Generation I]] games when played with the [[Super Game Boy]] enhancements enabled on a compatible system or with the [[Game Boy Color]] enhancements available in the international releases of {{game|Yellow}} (including the [[Virtual Console]] release).
* It is the southernmost location in both [[Kanto]] and [[Johto]] that the player can {{m|Fly}} to.

===Name origin===
{| class="roundy" style="background: #c46c65; border: 3px solid #B23D33"
! Language
! Name
! Origin
|- style="background:#FFF"
| Japanese
| グレンじま ''Guren Jima'' グレンタウン ''Guren Town''
| From 紅蓮色 ''guren-iro'', the crimson color of red lotus
|- style="background:#FFF"
| English
| Cinnabar Island
| From ''{{wp|cinnabar}}'', an orange-red mineral used to produce vermilion pigment
|- style="background:#FFF"
| French
| Cramois'île
| From ''cramoisi'', crimson
|- style="background:#FFF"
| German
| Zinnoberinsel
| From ''zinnoberrot'', carmine
|- style="background:#FFF"
| Italian
| Isola Cannella
| From ''cannella'', cinnamon
|- style="background:#FFF"
|rowspan="2" | Spanish
| Isla Canela 
| From ''canela'', cinnamon
|- style="background:#FFF"
| Isla Cinnabar{{tt|*|Latin American Spanish dub of the anime in EP187}}
| From its English name
|- style="background:#FFF"
| Korean
| 홍련섬 ''Hongnyeon Seom''
| From 홍련 (紅蓮) ''hongnyeon'', red lotus
|- style="background:#FFF"
|rowspan="2" | Chinese ({{tt|Mandarin|Taiwan and Mainland China}})
| 紅蓮島 / 红莲岛 ''Hónglián Dǎo'' 紅蓮鎮 / 红莲镇 ''Hónglián Zhèn''
| From 紅蓮 ''hónglián'', red lotus
|- style="background:#FFF"
| 幽谷鎮 ''Yōugǔ Zhèn''{{tt|*|Pokémon Zensho}}
| From 幽谷 ''yōugǔ'', glen
|- style="background:#FFF"
|rowspan="2" | Chinese ({{tt|Cantonese|Hong Kong}})
| 紅蓮鎮 ''Hùhnglìhn Jan''
| From 紅蓮 ''hùhnglìhn'', red lotus
|- style="background:#FFF"
| 幽谷鎮 ''Yāugūk Jan''{{tt|*|Pokémon Zensho}}
| From 幽谷 ''jāugūk'', glen
|- style="background:#FFF"
| Danish
| Cinnabarøen
| From English name
|- style="background:#FFF"
| Indonesian
| Pulau Glen{{tt|*|Pokémon Pocket Monsters}}
| Alternate romanization of its Japanese name
|- style="background:#FFF"
| Norwegian
| Øya Cinnabar
| From English name
|- style="background:#FFF"
| Polish
| Wyspa Cinnabar
| From its English name
|- style="background:#FFF"
| Brazilian Portuguese
| Ilha Cinnabar{{tt|*|anime, manga (PS010-PS047, end of Adventures volume 5, PS076), The Official Pokémon Handbook}} Ilha de Cinnabar{{tt|*|manga (PS055-PS064, PS083-present)}} Cidade de Cinnabar{{tt|*|manga (introduction of Adventures volumes 2-5 and end of volume 2)}}
| From its English name From its English name Means ''Cinnabar City''
|- style="background:#FFF"
| Russian
| Остров Киноварь ''Ostrov Kinovar'''
| From киноварь ''kinovar''', cinnabar
|- style="background:#FFF"
| Swedish
| Cinnabar-ön
| From English name
|- style="background:#FFF"
| Thai
| เกาะเกรน ''Keāa Kern''
| Transliteration of Japanese name
|- style="background:#FFF"
| Vietnamese
| Đảo Glen
| Transliteration of Japanese name
|}

==References==
{{reflist}}

{{Kanto}} 
{{Project Cities and Towns notice}}

[[Category:Kanto locations]]
[[Category:Red, Blue and Yellow locations]]
[[Category:Gold, Silver and Crystal locations]]
[[Category:FireRed and LeafGreen locations]]
[[Category:HeartGold and SoulSilver locations]]
[[Category:Pokémon Pinball locations]]
[[Category:Towns]]
[[Category:Islands]]
[[Category:Volcanoes]]

[[de:Zinnoberinsel]]
[[es:Isla Canela]]
[[fr:Cramois'Île]]
[[it:Isola Cannella]]
[[ja:グレンタウン]]
[[zh:红莲岛]]

Pokémon Gold and Silver beta

2018-07-14T22:19:11Z

Ericss:

{{incomplete|article|Add missing information and media, like that found on other sites, such as [http://tcrf.net/Pok%C3%A9mon_Gold_and_Silver The Cutting Room Floor] wiki; expand some information and add missing references to reliable sources, when applicable}}


{{split|different articles}}
[[File:1997 Pokemon2 Logo.png|right|thumb|The original logo of ''Pocket Monsters 2'']]
The development cycle of {{game|Gold and Silver|s}}, released in 1999 in Japan and 2000 elsewhere, is probably the most discussed and researched of all releases in the [[core series]] games during the history of the franchise. A relatively broad amount of official material in combination with later investigations reveal a lot of details about incomplete and unreleased elements. Several aspects from the development stages are proof of the over two-year period in which [[Game Freak]] undertook with the sequels to the [[Generation I]] games.

==Pre-release==
===First mention of ''Pocket Monsters 2''===
In 1997, [[Nintendo]] announced the first details about the then-next [[generation]] of [[core series|Pocket Monsters]] games, to be titled '''''Pocket Monsters 2: Gold & Silver''''' (Japanese: '''ポケットモンスター２　金・銀'''). The games were intended to be released at the end of the year for the original [[Game Boy]], while supporting the [[Super Game Boy]] enhancements that the [[Generation I]] games have.

One of the many notable additions promised was a skateboard that could be used in addition to the [[Bicycle]] of the previous games, and which would allow the {{player}} to travel to "unusual places". Though this never appeared in the released game, other things announced, such as the [[time]] system with its {{wp|real-time clock}}, as well as {{cat|Generation II Pokémon|100 new Pokémon}}, including [[List of Pokémon with cross-generational evolutions|new evolutions of old Pokémon]], and new [[TM]]s and [[HM]]s containing new [[move]]s, were included. The communication abilities of the games were also to be improved, and [[Time Capsule|backwards compatibility]] with the Generation I games was also announced.

A 1997 edition of ''MicroGroup Game Review'' showcased some [[List of unused Pokémon and character designs|Pokémon and character designs]] that were later scrapped.

Sprites of {{p|Donphan}}, {{p|Ampharos}}, {{p|Slowking}}, and {{p|Ho-Oh}} were also released, using the [[Super Game Boy]] palettes.

Concept art of {{ga|Silver}}, {{p|Ledyba}} and the opening cutscene of the games was also published.

<gallery>
File:MicroGroup Game Review Volume 14.jpg|The aforementioned 1997 edition of ''MicroGroup Game Review''.
File:1997 GS Pokemon.png|Four of the "new" {{OBP|Pokémon|species}} that would be included in ''Pocket Monsters 2''.
File:Rediba Silver Title Cutscene Concept.png|The concept art mentioned above.
</gallery>

===New Pokémon in the anime===
The {{pkmn|anime}} also provided early peeks at the new {{OBP|Pokémon|species}}. {{p|Ho-Oh}}, the eventual [[game mascot]] of {{game3|Gold and Silver|Pokémon Gold|s}}, appeared in the [[EP001|first episode]]. Later, {{TP|Misty|Togepi}} hatched from an {{pkmn|Egg}} {{Ash}} himself found, and [[Misty]] became the first main character to own a [[Generation II]] Pokémon. {{p|Snubbull}} and {{p|Marill}} made their first appearances in ''[[PK01|Pikachu's Vacation]]'', and {{p|Donphan}} appeared at the start of ''[[M01|Mewtwo Strikes Back]]''. During [[S02|the second season]] of the English dub, Ash and Misty also encountered {{Tracey}}, who owned a {{TP|Tracey|Marill}}; {{OBP|Lugia|M02}}, the game mascot of {{game3|Gold and Silver|Pokémon Silver|s}}, was the focus of [[M02|the second movie]], in which {{p|Slowking}} also appeared. {{p|Bellossom}}, {{p|Ledyba}}, {{p|Hoothoot}}, and {{p|Elekid}} also made an appearance in ''[[PK04|Pikachu's Rescue Adventure]]''.

===First screenshots===
The color scheme in these screenshots corresponds to the [[Super Game Boy]] palettes, as the games hadn't been developed with the [[Game Boy Color]] in mind yet. It also sported the palette-swapping functionality that is also present in the [[Generation I]] games.

At this time, the initial game screenshots released didn't look all that much different from the Generation I games. The pictures clearly show the games' engine being in a more developed, but still early, stage. The lack of {{pkmn|battle}} screenshots would seem to indicate that a redone battle system had not been implemented yet.

As can be seen on one of the screenshots, {{m|Whirlpool|whirlpools}} were originally randomly interspersed across [[Route|sea routes]] to serve as obstacles.

On some other screenshots of different stages of development, part of a city resembling [[Ecruteak City]] is seen. Whether it was an actual prototype of Ecruteak City, or a completely distinct location, is not known.

A screenshot depicting an earlier design for the [[Pokémon Center]] also shows an {{p|Unown}} ruin on the upper-right corner, which was possibly related to the [[Ruins of Alph]], or an equivalent location at that point in development.

A [[gate]] at the end of a route is also shown.

Another screenshot also depicts possible prototypes of [[Goldenrod Radio Tower]], as well as of a gate—possibly the gate that leads to Route 35, or rather, the [[Magnet Train]] station in [[Goldenrod City]].

<gallery perrow=4>
File:1997 GS Building.png|Coming out of a building.
File:1997 GS Silent Hills.png|'''Silent Hills''' (サイレントヒルズ), the originally planned starting town
File:1997 GS Violet City.png|A possible prototype of [[Ecruteak City]], or a completely scrapped location.
File:1997 GS Violet City 2.png|The same location on a different stage of development.
File:1997 GS Surfing.png|Prototype {{m|Whirlpool|whirlpools}}
File:1997 GS Ruins.png|Prototype [[Pokémon Center]] and [[Ruins of Alph]]
File:1997 GS Route 35.png|Prototype route and [[gate]]
File:1997 GS Goldenrod City.png|Possible prototypes of [[Goldenrod Radio Tower]] and a gate.
</gallery>

===Delayed release===
[[File:1998 Pokemon GS Logo.png|right|thumb|The second logo of ''Pocket Monsters: Gold & Silver'', with the number 2 being dropped from the title]]
The end of 1997 passed without a release for ''Pocket Monsters 2: Gold & Silver''. The potential release date was removed, and things generally stayed quiet until March 1998, where it was officially announced that the release would be delayed.

It was at this time that the games were re-announced as '''''Pocket Monsters: Gold & Silver'''''. Though the number 2 was dropped, the games remained as sequels to the [[Generation I]] games. Much of the year was quiet with regard to information about the games, as {{game3|Yellow|''Pocket Monsters: Pikachu''}} was on its way out in Japan, and {{game|Red and Blue|s}} and the {{pkmn|anime|Pokémon anime}} were on their way to the United States.

Video showing a few seconds of how the game looked like:
{{Youtubevid|4de7uwhoOyY|channel/UCzF1JNxVw4vd1gK7nNTxKqg|name=Escape, Cyberia i inne|Gold|Silver}}
{{-}}

===More information===
[[File:1999 Pokemon Gold Logo.png|right|thumb|The final logo for {{game3|Gold and Silver|''Pocket Monsters: Gold''|s}}]]
[[File:1999 Pokemon Silver Logo.png|right|thumb|The final logo for {{game3|Gold and Silver|''Pocket Monsters: Silver''|s}}]]
Following nearly a year without press releases, the [[Nintendo]] of Japan website was finally updated with new information on {{game3|Gold and Silver|''Pocket Monsters: Gold & Silver''|s}}. A revised release date of June 1999 was given and it was announced the games would be compatible with the then soon-to-be-released [[Game Boy Color]].

[[Ken Sugimori]]'s artwork for {{p|Slowking}}, {{p|Marill}}, {{p|Bellossom}}, and {{p|Hoothoot}} was also released, as were several screenshots of the new {{pkmn|battle}} system, featuring fully-colored sprites.

The battle screens are very similar to the final ones, but the absence of [[gender]] notation is apparent. {{OBP|Pokémon|species}} gender was a previously announced feature, and the graphical indicator of the gender during battle was likely added later as a convenience to {{player}}s.

The [[move]] [[stats]] screen, which, in the final release, shows players the remaining and total amount of {{PP}} for each move, as well as its [[type]], was apparently not fully completed at this point in development.

The battle system, nearly complete, was demonstrated, including [[wild Pokémon]] encounters. The new [[Pokédex]], while close to completion, was still missing several features, such as the [[footprint]] and [[National Pokédex]] number of the Pokémon. The location, [[cry]], and printing functions were also missing.

The screenshots released look very similar to the actual footage of the final release. The locations shown do not appear to be part of the final map, though they look similar.

The Pokédex Entries for the 'new' Pokémon ({{p|Marill}}, {{p|Girafarig}}, {{p|Hoppip}}, {{p|Sunflora}}, and {{p|Ledyba}}) had 'Now investigating this newly discovered Pokémon' as their entries. This was the same as the Spaceworld '97 Demo.
<gallery perrow=6>
File:1999 Slowking Artwork.png|Artwork of {{p|Slowking}}
File:1999 Marill Artwork.png|Artwork of {{p|Marill}}
File:1999 Bellossom Artwork.png|Artwork of {{p|Bellossom}}
File:1999 Hoothoot Artwork.png|Artwork of {{p|Hoothoot}}
File:1999 shot p1.png|{{p|Snubbull}} vs. {{p|Marill}}
File:1999 shot p2.png|{{p|Butterfree}} vs. {{p|Venusaur}}
File:1999 shot p3.png|[[Player character|Player]] vs. {{tc|Picnicker|Picnic Girl}} Kanami
File:1999 shot p4.png|{{p|Charizard}} vs. {{p|Donphan}}
File:1999-GS beta title screen.png|Prototype title screen of {{game3|Gold and Silver|''Pocket Monsters: Gold''|s}}
File:1999 trailer titlescr.png|A more advanced title screen, also of {{game3|Gold and Silver|''Pocket Monsters: Gold''|s}}.
File:1999 trailer battle2.png|"Ah! A {{pkmn2|wild}} {{p|Togepi}} appeared!"
File:1999 Slowking Pokedex entry.png|"{{p|Slowking}}'s Beta Pokédex Entry -Now investigating this newly discovered {{OBP|Pokémon|species}}."
</gallery>

==Post-release==
Since {{game|Gold and Silver|s}} were released, other things have been uncovered that reveal interesting details about their development.

===Locations===
The final releases have a large number of incomplete maps that detail what most [[Johto]] towns looked like during the development stages. Some data pertaining to [[Kanto]] locations that are not available is also present.

====Ecruteak Pharmacy====
[[File:Olivine beta house.png|thumb|right|Inside the unused house in Olivine City]]
Another complete map is a house in [[Olivine City]], where a woman refers to a pharmacy in [[Ecruteak City]] instead of [[Cianwood City]] on both Japanese and English releases. This possibly suggests that the pharmacy was originally planned for Ecruteak City. Oddly enough, she has a {{p|Rhydon}} inside her house, which uses a bugged overworld sprite that intermittently changes between its own and the one resembling a {{p|Clefairy}}. The warp data is complete and is in the top left corner of Olivine City in the middle of trees (meaning that the player cannot normally walk there), however, there is no door and walking into the warp tile alone will not activate the warp. Additional hacking must be done to activate it, such as making all warps act like holes. Additionally, the trees should be removed if this is to be accessed without "walk through walls".

The following text is from the woman's speech:

;Japanese
<blockquote>あたしの　ポケモンが　びょうきに　なったときは　エンジュの　クスリやさんに　クスリを　つくって　もらったの</blockquote>

;English
<blockquote>When my <sc>Pok</sc>é<sc>mon</sc> got sick, the <sc>Pharmacist</sc> in <sc>Ecruteak</sc> made some medicine for me.</blockquote>

Interacting with the {{OBP|Pokémon|species}}'s overworld sprite will yield:

;Japanese
<blockquote>サイドン『ぐごーおお！</blockquote>

;English
<blockquote><sc>Rhydon</sc>: Gugooh!</blockquote>

====Special (location)====
[[File:Pokemon Center 2F Special GS SGB JP WST.png|thumb|Special in non-Korean Gold and Silver on Super Game Boy mode]]
The second floor of every Pokémon Center is actually the same map, regardless of which Pokémon Center the player is at. This is because when the player goes up the stairs, they are redirected to a map internally labeled as '''SPECIAL''' (Japanese: '''スペシャル''' ''Special''). In Korean Gold and Silver, it is instead labeled as '''？？？'''.

It is likely that [[Game Freak]] created Special in order to save storage space in the ROM of the games; however, there is unused map data for copies of Special in every [[Kanto]] location with a Pokémon Center, suggesting that Game Freak also tested multiple copies of the second floor in every Pokémon Center, an idea they later used in the [[Generation III]] games. These unused copies all have but a single warp programmed in, which leads the player back to the respective ground floor, and use the map header of the location in which they were supposed to be found.

===Safari Zone===
There is an unused and incomplete map for the [[Kanto Safari Zone]], along with a disabled warp for the Safari Zone [[gate]].

In {{game|HeartGold and SoulSilver|s}}, it is replaced by the [[Pal Park]], and an actual {{safari|Johto}} was newly added to the north of {{rt|48|Johto}}.

====Pokémon====
No wild Pokémon exist within the grass of the unused Safari Zone; however, a few Pokémon can be found by [[fishing]] (the usual set of Pokémon found by fishing in many places in the game).

====Generation II====
{{Catch/header|water|yes}}
{{Catch/div|water|Fishing}}
{{Catch/entry2|129|Magikarp|yes|yes|yes|Fish Old|10|all=85%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entry2|098|Krabby|yes|yes|yes|Fish Old|10|all=15%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entry2|098|Krabby|yes|yes|yes|Fish Good|20|all=55%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entry2|129|Magikarp|yes|yes|yes|Fish Good|20|all=35%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entry2|222|Corsola|yes|yes|yes|Fish Good|20|10%|10%|0%|type1=Water|type2=Rock}}
{{Catch/entry2|120|Staryu|yes|yes|yes|Fish Good|20|0%|0%|10%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entry2|098|Krabby|yes|yes|yes|Fish Super|40|all=60%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entry2|222|Corsola|yes|yes|yes|Fish Super|40|30%|30%|0%|type1=Water|type2=Rock}}
{{Catch/entry2|120|Staryu|yes|yes|yes|Fish Super|40|0%|0%|30%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entry2|099|Kingler|yes|yes|yes|Fish Super|40|all=10%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/footer|water}}

====Area====
The map data of the [[gate]] still exists, with an exit warp back to Fuchsia City and an entrance warp into the unused Safari Zone. The Safari Zone area itself is rather small, with several tiles of long grass, a small pond, and other features. Oddly, the water tiles have no outline surrounding them, unlike other pools of water in the game. There are no regular exit warps from within the Safari Zone area, but two normally inaccessible warps to the gate exist at the two positions that the player initially appears at after entering the Safari Zone from the gate's left or right door.<ref>[http://forums.glitchcity.info/index.php/topic,7051.0.html Gold/Silver/Crystal - how to easily access unused warps - Glitch City Laboratories]</ref>

===Pokémon Lab===
Full maps without events programmed in exist for the [[Pokémon Lab]] in [[Cinnabar Island]], indicating that Cinnabar Island was originally planned to make an appearance without the erupted volcano, or at least that the Lab was going to remain.

====Prototype maps====
The prototype maps are left over in the Pokemon Gold, Silver and Crystal ROMs. They don't fit with any tileset in the final game.
<gallery perrow=6>
File:New Bark Town beta GS.png|Prototype [[New Bark Town]]
File:Cherrygrove City beta.png|Prototype [[Cherrygrove City]]
File:Violet City beta.png|Prototype [[Violet City]]
File:Azalea City beta GS.png|Possible prototype [[Azalea Town]]
File:Goldenrod City beta GS.png|Prototype [[Goldenrod City]]
File:Ecruteak City beta GS.png|Prototype [[Ecruteak City]]
File:Olivine City beta GS.png|Prototype [[Olivine City]]
File:Mahogany Town beta GS.png|Prototype [[Mahogany Town]]
File:Beta Lake of Rage.png|The prototype [[Lake of Rage]]
File:Blackthorn City beta GS.png|Possible prototype [[Blackthorn City]]
File:Kanto Safari Zone unused GSC.png|Prototype {{safari|Kanto}} in [[Fuchsia City]]
File:Route 23 beta.png|Prototype of {{rt|23|Kanto}}
</gallery>

===Graphics===
A mine cart image was discovered on the cave tilesets. The player character's early sprites, which depict {{ga|Ethan|him}} without his [[Bag]], are still present in the games' code as well.

====Changed Graphics====
Several Trainer and Pokémon sprites and in battle images were changed between the Japanese / South Korean and international releases. Many of the Pokémon sprite changes were made to make them more accurate to their TCG card graphics. Interestingly, an early CoroCoro scan depicted the Fisher trainer class smoking even before the release of the game. 

=====Trainers=====
{| style="margin:auto; text-align:center; font-size:80%; {{roundy|20px}} border: 2px solid #{{gold color dark}}; background: #{{gold color}}"
|-
|style="{{roundy|20px}} border: 2px solid #{{silver color dark}}; background: #{{silver color light}}; width:80px"|
[[File:Spr GS Beauty JP.png]]
|style="{{roundy|20px}} border: 2px solid #{{silver color dark}}; background: #{{silver color light}}; width:80px"|
[[File:Spr GS Beauty.png]]
|-
| {{color2|Beauty - Japan / South Korea Sprite
| {{color2|International - Longer shorts, no longer winks
|-
|style="{{roundy|20px}} border: 2px solid #{{silver color dark}}; background: #{{silver color light}}; width:80px"|
[[File:Spr GS Sage JP.png]]
|style="{{roundy|20px}} border: 2px solid #{{silver color dark}}; background: #{{silver color light}}; width:80px"|
[[File:Spr GS Sage.png]]
|-
| {{color2|Sage - Japan / South Korea Sprite
| {{color2|International - No longer prays
|-
|style="{{roundy|20px}} border: 2px solid #{{silver color dark}}; background: #{{silver color light}}; width:80px"|
[[File:Spr GS Medium JP.png]]
|style="{{roundy|20px}} border: 2px solid #{{silver color dark}}; background: #{{silver color light}}; width:80px"|
[[File:Spr GS Medium.png]]
|-
| {{color2|Medium - Japan / South Korea Sprite
| {{color2|International - No longer carries beads
|-
|style="{{roundy|20px}} border: 2px solid #{{silver color dark}}; background: #{{silver color light}}; width:80px"|
[[File:Spr GS Swimmer F JP.png]]
|style="{{roundy|20px}} border: 2px solid #{{silver color dark}}; background: #{{silver color light}}; width:80px"|
[[File:Spr GS Swimmer F.png]]
|-
| {{color2|Swimmer♀ - Japan / South Korea Sprite
| {{color2|International - No longer winks
|-
|style="{{roundy|20px}} border: 2px solid #{{silver color dark}}; background: #{{silver color light}}; width:80px"|
[[File:Spr GS Fisher JP.png]]
|style="{{roundy|20px}} border: 2px solid #{{silver color dark}}; background: #{{silver color light}}; width:80px"|
[[File:Spr GS Fisher.png]]
|-
| {{color2|Fisher - Japan / South Korea Sprite
| {{color2|International - No longer smokes
|-
|}



===Events===
An unused event script, complete with text, was discovered.<ref>[http://iimarck.us/i/entei-event/ Entei Event]</ref> In it, a different event for a level 40 {{p|Entei}}, analogous to the birds in [[Generation I]], was planned. The script consists of three events: output text on-screen, play Entei's [[cry]] and initiate a {{pkmn|battle}} with a [[wild Pokémon|wild]] [[level]] 40 Entei. The output text is: "''<sc>Entei</sc>: Bufuu!''"

This unused event was removed from {{game|Crystal}}.

There are also unused text strings for an event related to the [[Burned Tower]], where someone's daughter was missing.<ref>[http://iimarck.us/i/ecruteak-daughter/ Ecruteak Daughter]</ref> It is possible that this event made its final debut as the missing granddaughter in the [[S.S. Aqua]].

<blockquote>Oh, no. Oh, no… My daughter is missing. No… She couldn't have gone to the <sc>Burned Tower</sc>. I told her not to go near it… People seem to disappear there… Oh, what should I do…? </blockquote>

===Sweet Honey===
Several text strings refer to <sc>Sweet Honey</sc>, suggesting that [[Honey]] was originally planned for the [[Generation II]] games. It eventually made its debut in {{game|Diamond and Pearl|s}}.

<blockquote>My <sc>Pok</sc>é<sc>mon</sc> is an expert at collecting <sc>Sweet Honey</sc>.</blockquote>

If the unidentified [[Non-player character|NPC]] were to give Sweet Honey to the {{player}}:

<blockquote>I'll share some with you.</blockquote>

If the player did not have enough room in {{ga|Ethan|his}} [[Bag]]:

<blockquote>I want to give you some <sc>Sweet Honey</sc>, but you have no room for it.</blockquote>

If the player had room in the Bag:

<blockquote>Here you go! Have some <sc>Sweet Honey</sc>! {Player} received <sc>Sweet Honey</sc>.</blockquote>

Other text related to Sweet Honey includes:

<blockquote>My little brother takes <sc>Sweet Honey</sc> and goes somewhere with it. I wonder what he's up to? Did you put <sc>Sweet Honey</sc> on a tree? What happened to it? Did you put <sc>Sweet Honey</sc> on a tree? It takes about a day for <sc>Pok</sc>é<sc>mon</sc> to be drawn to it. <sc>Butterfree</sc>: Freeh! </blockquote>

===Naming the mother===
One of the different types of name entry screens is unused and has the player naming their mother, complete with {{jo|Mom}}'s sprite and the text "MOTHER's NAME?" (Japanese:ははおやのなまえは？). Additionally, the hex:49 control character will display text starting from the memory address D1AE, but it is seemingly unused; changing the data at D1AE will not change Mom's name in the Pokégear's list of contacts.<ref>[http://iimarck.us/i/naming-mother Naming Your Mother - iimarck.us]</ref>

The text at D1AE initialized as "MOM" from a New Game, implying that the hex:49 control character may have been intended to display the mother's name, but D1AE is actually used for a different purpose in the final game. The data at D1AE is written to with the player's name if the player watches the [[Dude]]'s catching demonstration, so that the game can copy this data back into the player's name (as the player name is temporarily replaced with "DUDE"). This mechanic is similar to how watching the [[old man]]'s demonstration in Generation I temporarily stores the player's name in wild encounter data.

===Red and Green===
Space is reserved in {{wp|Random-access memory|RAM}} for two names, <sc>Red</sc> and <sc>Green</sc>—the {{ga|Red|protagonist}} and his {{ga|Blue|rival}} from the [[Generation I]] games, but there is seemingly no menu for the player to name them, unlike how there is an unused menu for naming the mother.

===Bird type===
The {{t|Bird}} type from the [[Generation I]] games remains in the internal data. This is presumed to be a carryover from the Generation I games' engine, as {{game|Gold and Silver|s}} were developed on an upgraded version of it.

===Items===
The [[Town Map]] and [[Poké Flute]] from the [[Generation I]] games are also present. Both are named [[Teru-sama]] (Japanese: '''カビチュウ''' ''Kabichū'') and are otherwise unusable. However, if their data is modified so that the <sc>Use</sc> option in the [[Bag]] appears, the Poké Flute will still function, and the Town Map will attempt to, but fail, as the data it would access was relocated or removed altogether.

===Cal===
There is unused {{pkmn|battle}} data for {{ga|Cal}}, the default opponent at the [[Trainer House]]. There are two parties—one with the initial [[evolution]]ary stages of the [[Johto]] starters and one with their second evolutionary stages. As [[Viridian City]] and its Trainer House cannot be legally accessed until much later in the {{player}}'s adventure, it is unknown what purpose these parties would have served.

===Game Corner===
A second card-flipping [[Goldenrod Game Corner|Game Corner]] game exists in the game code. It exists in both the Japanese and English versions, but some text strings for it were not translated for the English versions; resulting in {{wp|mojibake}}.

{{youtubevid|XJsWw2LlKto|IIMarckus}}

===Status prevention hold item effects===
In the game code there are six unused types of hold item effects that prevent the Pokémon holding it from being inflicted with a status ailment.

Four of the effects bring up the text "<Pokémon>'s protected by <item>!", but the ones that prevent the Burn and Freeze ailments, while functionable, do not bring up this message. Hold items with these attributes are not consumed after use, like Leftovers.

It is unknown why these are unused.

===Leftover Mimic Menu===
During the Generation I games, the move {{m|Mimic}} allowed the player to decide what move they wanted to copy. How this move functioned was changed in Generation II to copy the last used move. However, there is still data leftover in the game for the original use of Mimic. It can be added back in using the Gameshark codes '''010111D1''' (Japanese Release) and '''01011FD1''' (US Release). The move is glitchy though, sometimes it brings up the enemy's moves, the player Pokémon's moves, or in some cases; the Pokémon will use {{m|Struggle}} instead. Once the Mimic menu has been opened, it cannot be closed; the player must choose what move to copy. This menu is still present in the Crystal release as well. <ref>[https://tcrf.net/Pok%C3%A9mon_Gold_and_Silver Pokémon Gold and Silver - TCRF]</ref>

===Unused Pokémon Flee Encounters===
Some Pokémon are able to [[Escape|flee]] but are never encountered in the wild. The flee encounters are separated into three tables, (the third table being 100% flee probability is used by the [[Legendary beasts]]). The first table is a 10% chance to flee and the second table is a 50% chance to flee, however; the Pokémon below are never found anywhere.

====Table 1 (10%)====
* {{p|Eevee}}
* {{p|Porygon}}
* {{p|Togetic}}
* {{p|Umbreon}}

====Table 2 (50%)====
* {{p|Articuno}}
* {{p|Zapdos}}
* {{p|Moltres}}

===Unused Battle Types===
The RAM Address '''D119''' determines what type of battle the player character will encounter, there are several battle types that go unused or cannot be experienced through normal gameplay.

==References==
<references/>

==External links==
* [http://web.archive.org/web/20090529070931/http://glitchcity.info/docs/gscsafarizone Glitch City Safari Zone]
* [http://web.archive.org/web/20071202131509/http://www.geocities.com/worldofpkmn/gs_pre/gs_pre.htm Pokémon GS Pre-Release Images] (Wayback archive)
* [http://gameboy.ign.com/ IGN Pocket]
* [http://pkmn.net/?action=content&page=viewpage&id=109&parentsection=1 Pokémon GS prototype Information]
* [http://pkmn.net/?action=content&page=viewpage&id=112&parentsection=1 Pkmn.co.uk Lost Pokémon!]
* [http://pkmn.net/?action=gallery&page=viewgall&id=19 Pkmn.co.uk GS prototype Maps]
* [http://www.freewebs.com/tohjofalls/crysdump.txt Tohjo Falls Crystal Text Dump]
* [http://web.archive.org/web/20041021125709/pokefor.greenchu.de/meowth346/gbc/alpha/ Pokefor.tk Pokémon GS Pre-Release] (Wayback archive)
* [http://web.archive.org/web/20101115173729/http://web.me.com/celebi23/Spaceworld_97_Pokemon/Main.html Pocket Monsters 2 Alpha Release Information] (Wayback archive)
* [http://mltreq.alwaysdata.net/i/beta-song Beta Song]
* [http://mltreq.alwaysdata.net/i/ecruteak-daughter Ecruteak Daughter]

{{beta|gold|silver}} 
{{Project Games notice}}

[[de:Pokémon Gold und Silber (Vorabversion)]]
[[it:Pokémon Oro e Argento beta]]
[[zh:精灵宝可梦金·银研发历史]]

Pokémon Gold and Silver beta

2018-07-14T22:18:24Z

Ericss: Removing some of the speculation that the article tried to pass off as fact

{{incomplete|article|Add missing information and media, like that found on other sites, such as [http://tcrf.net/Pok%C3%A9mon_Gold_and_Silver The Cutting Room Floor] wiki; expand some information and add missing references to reliable sources, when applicable}}


{{split|different articles}}
[[File:1997 Pokemon2 Logo.png|right|thumb|The original logo of ''Pocket Monsters 2'']]
The development cycle of {{game|Gold and Silver|s}}, released in 1999 in Japan and 2000 elsewhere, is probably the most discussed and researched of all releases in the [[core series]] games during the history of the franchise. A relatively broad amount of official material in combination with later investigations reveal a lot of details about incomplete and unreleased elements. Several aspects from the development stages are proof of the over two-year period in which [[Game Freak]] undertook with the sequels to the [[Generation I]] games.

==Pre-release==
===First mention of ''Pocket Monsters 2''===
In 1997, [[Nintendo]] announced the first details about the then-next [[generation]] of [[core series|Pocket Monsters]] games, to be titled '''''Pocket Monsters 2: Gold & Silver''''' (Japanese: '''ポケットモンスター２　金・銀'''). The games were intended to be released at the end of the year for the original [[Game Boy]], while supporting the [[Super Game Boy]] enhancements that the [[Generation I]] games have.

One of the many notable additions promised was a skateboard that could be used in addition to the [[Bicycle]] of the previous games, and which would allow the {{player}} to travel to "unusual places". Though this never appeared in the released game, other things announced, such as the [[time]] system with its {{wp|real-time clock}}, as well as {{cat|Generation II Pokémon|100 new Pokémon}}, including [[List of Pokémon with cross-generational evolutions|new evolutions of old Pokémon]], and new [[TM]]s and [[HM]]s containing new [[move]]s, were included. The communication abilities of the games were also to be improved, and [[Time Capsule|backwards compatibility]] with the Generation I games was also announced.

A 1997 edition of ''MicroGroup Game Review'' showcased some [[List of unused Pokémon and character designs|Pokémon and character designs]] that were later scrapped.

Sprites of {{p|Donphan}}, {{p|Ampharos}}, {{p|Slowking}}, and {{p|Ho-Oh}} were also released, using the [[Super Game Boy]] palettes.

Concept art of {{ga|Silver}}, {{p|Ledyba}} and the opening cutscene of the games was also published.

<gallery>
File:MicroGroup Game Review Volume 14.jpg|The aforementioned 1997 edition of ''MicroGroup Game Review''.
File:1997 GS Pokemon.png|Four of the "new" {{OBP|Pokémon|species}} that would be included in ''Pocket Monsters 2''.
File:Rediba Silver Title Cutscene Concept.png|The concept art mentioned above.
</gallery>

===New Pokémon in the anime===
The {{pkmn|anime}} also provided early peeks at the new {{OBP|Pokémon|species}}. {{p|Ho-Oh}}, the eventual [[game mascot]] of {{game3|Gold and Silver|Pokémon Gold|s}}, appeared in the [[EP001|first episode]]. Later, {{TP|Misty|Togepi}} hatched from an {{pkmn|Egg}} {{Ash}} himself found, and [[Misty]] became the first main character to own a [[Generation II]] Pokémon. {{p|Snubbull}} and {{p|Marill}} made their first appearances in ''[[PK01|Pikachu's Vacation]]'', and {{p|Donphan}} appeared at the start of ''[[M01|Mewtwo Strikes Back]]''. During [[S02|the second season]] of the English dub, Ash and Misty also encountered {{Tracey}}, who owned a {{TP|Tracey|Marill}}; {{OBP|Lugia|M02}}, the game mascot of {{game3|Gold and Silver|Pokémon Silver|s}}, was the focus of [[M02|the second movie]], in which {{p|Slowking}} also appeared. {{p|Bellossom}}, {{p|Ledyba}}, {{p|Hoothoot}}, and {{p|Elekid}} also made an appearance in ''[[PK04|Pikachu's Rescue Adventure]]''.

===First screenshots===
The color scheme in these screenshots corresponds to the [[Super Game Boy]] palettes, as the games hadn't been developed with the [[Game Boy Color]] in mind yet. It also sported the palette-swapping functionality that is also present in the [[Generation I]] games.

At this time, the initial game screenshots released didn't look all that much different from the Generation I games. The pictures clearly show the games' engine being in a more developed, but still early, stage. The lack of {{pkmn|battle}} screenshots would seem to indicate that a redone battle system had not been implemented yet.

As can be seen on one of the screenshots, {{m|Whirlpool|whirlpools}} were originally randomly interspersed across [[Route|sea routes]] to serve as obstacles.

On some other screenshots of different stages of development, part of a city resembling [[Ecruteak City]] is seen. Whether it was an actual prototype of Ecruteak City, or a completely distinct location, is not known.

A screenshot depicting an earlier design for the [[Pokémon Center]] also shows an {{p|Unown}} ruin on the upper-right corner, which was possibly related to the [[Ruins of Alph]], or an equivalent location at that point in development.

A [[gate]] at the end of a route is also shown.

Another screenshot also depicts possible prototypes of [[Goldenrod Radio Tower]], as well as of a gate—possibly the gate that leads to Route 35, or rather, the [[Magnet Train]] station in [[Goldenrod City]].

<gallery perrow=4>
File:1997 GS Building.png|Coming out of a building.
File:1997 GS Silent Hills.png|'''Silent Hills''' (サイレントヒルズ), the originally planned starting town
File:1997 GS Violet City.png|A possible prototype of [[Ecruteak City]], or a completely scrapped location.
File:1997 GS Violet City 2.png|The same location on a different stage of development.
File:1997 GS Surfing.png|Prototype {{m|Whirlpool|whirlpools}}
File:1997 GS Ruins.png|Prototype [[Pokémon Center]] and [[Ruins of Alph]]
File:1997 GS Route 35.png|Prototype route
File:1997 GS Goldenrod City.png|Possible prototypes of [[Goldenrod Radio Tower]] and a [[gate]].
</gallery>

===Delayed release===
[[File:1998 Pokemon GS Logo.png|right|thumb|The second logo of ''Pocket Monsters: Gold & Silver'', with the number 2 being dropped from the title]]
The end of 1997 passed without a release for ''Pocket Monsters 2: Gold & Silver''. The potential release date was removed, and things generally stayed quiet until March 1998, where it was officially announced that the release would be delayed.

It was at this time that the games were re-announced as '''''Pocket Monsters: Gold & Silver'''''. Though the number 2 was dropped, the games remained as sequels to the [[Generation I]] games. Much of the year was quiet with regard to information about the games, as {{game3|Yellow|''Pocket Monsters: Pikachu''}} was on its way out in Japan, and {{game|Red and Blue|s}} and the {{pkmn|anime|Pokémon anime}} were on their way to the United States.

Video showing a few seconds of how the game looked like:
{{Youtubevid|4de7uwhoOyY|channel/UCzF1JNxVw4vd1gK7nNTxKqg|name=Escape, Cyberia i inne|Gold|Silver}}
{{-}}

===More information===
[[File:1999 Pokemon Gold Logo.png|right|thumb|The final logo for {{game3|Gold and Silver|''Pocket Monsters: Gold''|s}}]]
[[File:1999 Pokemon Silver Logo.png|right|thumb|The final logo for {{game3|Gold and Silver|''Pocket Monsters: Silver''|s}}]]
Following nearly a year without press releases, the [[Nintendo]] of Japan website was finally updated with new information on {{game3|Gold and Silver|''Pocket Monsters: Gold & Silver''|s}}. A revised release date of June 1999 was given and it was announced the games would be compatible with the then soon-to-be-released [[Game Boy Color]].

[[Ken Sugimori]]'s artwork for {{p|Slowking}}, {{p|Marill}}, {{p|Bellossom}}, and {{p|Hoothoot}} was also released, as were several screenshots of the new {{pkmn|battle}} system, featuring fully-colored sprites.

The battle screens are very similar to the final ones, but the absence of [[gender]] notation is apparent. {{OBP|Pokémon|species}} gender was a previously announced feature, and the graphical indicator of the gender during battle was likely added later as a convenience to {{player}}s.

The [[move]] [[stats]] screen, which, in the final release, shows players the remaining and total amount of {{PP}} for each move, as well as its [[type]], was apparently not fully completed at this point in development.

The battle system, nearly complete, was demonstrated, including [[wild Pokémon]] encounters. The new [[Pokédex]], while close to completion, was still missing several features, such as the [[footprint]] and [[National Pokédex]] number of the Pokémon. The location, [[cry]], and printing functions were also missing.

The screenshots released look very similar to the actual footage of the final release. The locations shown do not appear to be part of the final map, though they look similar.

The Pokédex Entries for the 'new' Pokémon ({{p|Marill}}, {{p|Girafarig}}, {{p|Hoppip}}, {{p|Sunflora}}, and {{p|Ledyba}}) had 'Now investigating this newly discovered Pokémon' as their entries. This was the same as the Spaceworld '97 Demo.
<gallery perrow=6>
File:1999 Slowking Artwork.png|Artwork of {{p|Slowking}}
File:1999 Marill Artwork.png|Artwork of {{p|Marill}}
File:1999 Bellossom Artwork.png|Artwork of {{p|Bellossom}}
File:1999 Hoothoot Artwork.png|Artwork of {{p|Hoothoot}}
File:1999 shot p1.png|{{p|Snubbull}} vs. {{p|Marill}}
File:1999 shot p2.png|{{p|Butterfree}} vs. {{p|Venusaur}}
File:1999 shot p3.png|[[Player character|Player]] vs. {{tc|Picnicker|Picnic Girl}} Kanami
File:1999 shot p4.png|{{p|Charizard}} vs. {{p|Donphan}}
File:1999-GS beta title screen.png|Prototype title screen of {{game3|Gold and Silver|''Pocket Monsters: Gold''|s}}
File:1999 trailer titlescr.png|A more advanced title screen, also of {{game3|Gold and Silver|''Pocket Monsters: Gold''|s}}.
File:1999 trailer battle2.png|"Ah! A {{pkmn2|wild}} {{p|Togepi}} appeared!"
File:1999 Slowking Pokedex entry.png|"{{p|Slowking}}'s Beta Pokédex Entry -Now investigating this newly discovered {{OBP|Pokémon|species}}."
</gallery>

==Post-release==
Since {{game|Gold and Silver|s}} were released, other things have been uncovered that reveal interesting details about their development.

===Locations===
The final releases have a large number of incomplete maps that detail what most [[Johto]] towns looked like during the development stages. Some data pertaining to [[Kanto]] locations that are not available is also present.

====Ecruteak Pharmacy====
[[File:Olivine beta house.png|thumb|right|Inside the unused house in Olivine City]]
Another complete map is a house in [[Olivine City]], where a woman refers to a pharmacy in [[Ecruteak City]] instead of [[Cianwood City]] on both Japanese and English releases. This possibly suggests that the pharmacy was originally planned for Ecruteak City. Oddly enough, she has a {{p|Rhydon}} inside her house, which uses a bugged overworld sprite that intermittently changes between its own and the one resembling a {{p|Clefairy}}. The warp data is complete and is in the top left corner of Olivine City in the middle of trees (meaning that the player cannot normally walk there), however, there is no door and walking into the warp tile alone will not activate the warp. Additional hacking must be done to activate it, such as making all warps act like holes. Additionally, the trees should be removed if this is to be accessed without "walk through walls".

The following text is from the woman's speech:

;Japanese
<blockquote>あたしの　ポケモンが　びょうきに　なったときは　エンジュの　クスリやさんに　クスリを　つくって　もらったの</blockquote>

;English
<blockquote>When my <sc>Pok</sc>é<sc>mon</sc> got sick, the <sc>Pharmacist</sc> in <sc>Ecruteak</sc> made some medicine for me.</blockquote>

Interacting with the {{OBP|Pokémon|species}}'s overworld sprite will yield:

;Japanese
<blockquote>サイドン『ぐごーおお！</blockquote>

;English
<blockquote><sc>Rhydon</sc>: Gugooh!</blockquote>

====Special (location)====
[[File:Pokemon Center 2F Special GS SGB JP WST.png|thumb|Special in non-Korean Gold and Silver on Super Game Boy mode]]
The second floor of every Pokémon Center is actually the same map, regardless of which Pokémon Center the player is at. This is because when the player goes up the stairs, they are redirected to a map internally labeled as '''SPECIAL''' (Japanese: '''スペシャル''' ''Special''). In Korean Gold and Silver, it is instead labeled as '''？？？'''.

It is likely that [[Game Freak]] created Special in order to save storage space in the ROM of the games; however, there is unused map data for copies of Special in every [[Kanto]] location with a Pokémon Center, suggesting that Game Freak also tested multiple copies of the second floor in every Pokémon Center, an idea they later used in the [[Generation III]] games. These unused copies all have but a single warp programmed in, which leads the player back to the respective ground floor, and use the map header of the location in which they were supposed to be found.

===Safari Zone===
There is an unused and incomplete map for the [[Kanto Safari Zone]], along with a disabled warp for the Safari Zone [[gate]].

In {{game|HeartGold and SoulSilver|s}}, it is replaced by the [[Pal Park]], and an actual {{safari|Johto}} was newly added to the north of {{rt|48|Johto}}.

====Pokémon====
No wild Pokémon exist within the grass of the unused Safari Zone; however, a few Pokémon can be found by [[fishing]] (the usual set of Pokémon found by fishing in many places in the game).

====Generation II====
{{Catch/header|water|yes}}
{{Catch/div|water|Fishing}}
{{Catch/entry2|129|Magikarp|yes|yes|yes|Fish Old|10|all=85%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entry2|098|Krabby|yes|yes|yes|Fish Old|10|all=15%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entry2|098|Krabby|yes|yes|yes|Fish Good|20|all=55%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entry2|129|Magikarp|yes|yes|yes|Fish Good|20|all=35%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entry2|222|Corsola|yes|yes|yes|Fish Good|20|10%|10%|0%|type1=Water|type2=Rock}}
{{Catch/entry2|120|Staryu|yes|yes|yes|Fish Good|20|0%|0%|10%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entry2|098|Krabby|yes|yes|yes|Fish Super|40|all=60%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entry2|222|Corsola|yes|yes|yes|Fish Super|40|30%|30%|0%|type1=Water|type2=Rock}}
{{Catch/entry2|120|Staryu|yes|yes|yes|Fish Super|40|0%|0%|30%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entry2|099|Kingler|yes|yes|yes|Fish Super|40|all=10%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/footer|water}}

====Area====
The map data of the [[gate]] still exists, with an exit warp back to Fuchsia City and an entrance warp into the unused Safari Zone. The Safari Zone area itself is rather small, with several tiles of long grass, a small pond, and other features. Oddly, the water tiles have no outline surrounding them, unlike other pools of water in the game. There are no regular exit warps from within the Safari Zone area, but two normally inaccessible warps to the gate exist at the two positions that the player initially appears at after entering the Safari Zone from the gate's left or right door.<ref>[http://forums.glitchcity.info/index.php/topic,7051.0.html Gold/Silver/Crystal - how to easily access unused warps - Glitch City Laboratories]</ref>

===Pokémon Lab===
Full maps without events programmed in exist for the [[Pokémon Lab]] in [[Cinnabar Island]], indicating that Cinnabar Island was originally planned to make an appearance without the erupted volcano, or at least that the Lab was going to remain.

====Prototype maps====
The prototype maps are left over in the Pokemon Gold, Silver and Crystal ROMs. They don't fit with any tileset in the final game.
<gallery perrow=6>
File:New Bark Town beta GS.png|Prototype [[New Bark Town]]
File:Cherrygrove City beta.png|Prototype [[Cherrygrove City]]
File:Violet City beta.png|Prototype [[Violet City]]
File:Azalea City beta GS.png|Possible prototype [[Azalea Town]]
File:Goldenrod City beta GS.png|Prototype [[Goldenrod City]]
File:Ecruteak City beta GS.png|Prototype [[Ecruteak City]]
File:Olivine City beta GS.png|Prototype [[Olivine City]]
File:Mahogany Town beta GS.png|Prototype [[Mahogany Town]]
File:Beta Lake of Rage.png|The prototype [[Lake of Rage]]
File:Blackthorn City beta GS.png|Possible prototype [[Blackthorn City]]
File:Kanto Safari Zone unused GSC.png|Prototype {{safari|Kanto}} in [[Fuchsia City]]
File:Route 23 beta.png|Prototype of {{rt|23|Kanto}}
</gallery>

===Graphics===
A mine cart image was discovered on the cave tilesets. The player character's early sprites, which depict {{ga|Ethan|him}} without his [[Bag]], are still present in the games' code as well.

====Changed Graphics====
Several Trainer and Pokémon sprites and in battle images were changed between the Japanese / South Korean and international releases. Many of the Pokémon sprite changes were made to make them more accurate to their TCG card graphics. Interestingly, an early CoroCoro scan depicted the Fisher trainer class smoking even before the release of the game. 

=====Trainers=====
{| style="margin:auto; text-align:center; font-size:80%; {{roundy|20px}} border: 2px solid #{{gold color dark}}; background: #{{gold color}}"
|-
|style="{{roundy|20px}} border: 2px solid #{{silver color dark}}; background: #{{silver color light}}; width:80px"|
[[File:Spr GS Beauty JP.png]]
|style="{{roundy|20px}} border: 2px solid #{{silver color dark}}; background: #{{silver color light}}; width:80px"|
[[File:Spr GS Beauty.png]]
|-
| {{color2|Beauty - Japan / South Korea Sprite
| {{color2|International - Longer shorts, no longer winks
|-
|style="{{roundy|20px}} border: 2px solid #{{silver color dark}}; background: #{{silver color light}}; width:80px"|
[[File:Spr GS Sage JP.png]]
|style="{{roundy|20px}} border: 2px solid #{{silver color dark}}; background: #{{silver color light}}; width:80px"|
[[File:Spr GS Sage.png]]
|-
| {{color2|Sage - Japan / South Korea Sprite
| {{color2|International - No longer prays
|-
|style="{{roundy|20px}} border: 2px solid #{{silver color dark}}; background: #{{silver color light}}; width:80px"|
[[File:Spr GS Medium JP.png]]
|style="{{roundy|20px}} border: 2px solid #{{silver color dark}}; background: #{{silver color light}}; width:80px"|
[[File:Spr GS Medium.png]]
|-
| {{color2|Medium - Japan / South Korea Sprite
| {{color2|International - No longer carries beads
|-
|style="{{roundy|20px}} border: 2px solid #{{silver color dark}}; background: #{{silver color light}}; width:80px"|
[[File:Spr GS Swimmer F JP.png]]
|style="{{roundy|20px}} border: 2px solid #{{silver color dark}}; background: #{{silver color light}}; width:80px"|
[[File:Spr GS Swimmer F.png]]
|-
| {{color2|Swimmer♀ - Japan / South Korea Sprite
| {{color2|International - No longer winks
|-
|style="{{roundy|20px}} border: 2px solid #{{silver color dark}}; background: #{{silver color light}}; width:80px"|
[[File:Spr GS Fisher JP.png]]
|style="{{roundy|20px}} border: 2px solid #{{silver color dark}}; background: #{{silver color light}}; width:80px"|
[[File:Spr GS Fisher.png]]
|-
| {{color2|Fisher - Japan / South Korea Sprite
| {{color2|International - No longer smokes
|-
|}



===Events===
An unused event script, complete with text, was discovered.<ref>[http://iimarck.us/i/entei-event/ Entei Event]</ref> In it, a different event for a level 40 {{p|Entei}}, analogous to the birds in [[Generation I]], was planned. The script consists of three events: output text on-screen, play Entei's [[cry]] and initiate a {{pkmn|battle}} with a [[wild Pokémon|wild]] [[level]] 40 Entei. The output text is: "''<sc>Entei</sc>: Bufuu!''"

This unused event was removed from {{game|Crystal}}.

There are also unused text strings for an event related to the [[Burned Tower]], where someone's daughter was missing.<ref>[http://iimarck.us/i/ecruteak-daughter/ Ecruteak Daughter]</ref> It is possible that this event made its final debut as the missing granddaughter in the [[S.S. Aqua]].

<blockquote>Oh, no. Oh, no… My daughter is missing. No… She couldn't have gone to the <sc>Burned Tower</sc>. I told her not to go near it… People seem to disappear there… Oh, what should I do…? </blockquote>

===Sweet Honey===
Several text strings refer to <sc>Sweet Honey</sc>, suggesting that [[Honey]] was originally planned for the [[Generation II]] games. It eventually made its debut in {{game|Diamond and Pearl|s}}.

<blockquote>My <sc>Pok</sc>é<sc>mon</sc> is an expert at collecting <sc>Sweet Honey</sc>.</blockquote>

If the unidentified [[Non-player character|NPC]] were to give Sweet Honey to the {{player}}:

<blockquote>I'll share some with you.</blockquote>

If the player did not have enough room in {{ga|Ethan|his}} [[Bag]]:

<blockquote>I want to give you some <sc>Sweet Honey</sc>, but you have no room for it.</blockquote>

If the player had room in the Bag:

<blockquote>Here you go! Have some <sc>Sweet Honey</sc>! {Player} received <sc>Sweet Honey</sc>.</blockquote>

Other text related to Sweet Honey includes:

<blockquote>My little brother takes <sc>Sweet Honey</sc> and goes somewhere with it. I wonder what he's up to? Did you put <sc>Sweet Honey</sc> on a tree? What happened to it? Did you put <sc>Sweet Honey</sc> on a tree? It takes about a day for <sc>Pok</sc>é<sc>mon</sc> to be drawn to it. <sc>Butterfree</sc>: Freeh! </blockquote>

===Naming the mother===
One of the different types of name entry screens is unused and has the player naming their mother, complete with {{jo|Mom}}'s sprite and the text "MOTHER's NAME?" (Japanese:ははおやのなまえは？). Additionally, the hex:49 control character will display text starting from the memory address D1AE, but it is seemingly unused; changing the data at D1AE will not change Mom's name in the Pokégear's list of contacts.<ref>[http://iimarck.us/i/naming-mother Naming Your Mother - iimarck.us]</ref>

The text at D1AE initialized as "MOM" from a New Game, implying that the hex:49 control character may have been intended to display the mother's name, but D1AE is actually used for a different purpose in the final game. The data at D1AE is written to with the player's name if the player watches the [[Dude]]'s catching demonstration, so that the game can copy this data back into the player's name (as the player name is temporarily replaced with "DUDE"). This mechanic is similar to how watching the [[old man]]'s demonstration in Generation I temporarily stores the player's name in wild encounter data.

===Red and Green===
Space is reserved in {{wp|Random-access memory|RAM}} for two names, <sc>Red</sc> and <sc>Green</sc>—the {{ga|Red|protagonist}} and his {{ga|Blue|rival}} from the [[Generation I]] games, but there is seemingly no menu for the player to name them, unlike how there is an unused menu for naming the mother.

===Bird type===
The {{t|Bird}} type from the [[Generation I]] games remains in the internal data. This is presumed to be a carryover from the Generation I games' engine, as {{game|Gold and Silver|s}} were developed on an upgraded version of it.

===Items===
The [[Town Map]] and [[Poké Flute]] from the [[Generation I]] games are also present. Both are named [[Teru-sama]] (Japanese: '''カビチュウ''' ''Kabichū'') and are otherwise unusable. However, if their data is modified so that the <sc>Use</sc> option in the [[Bag]] appears, the Poké Flute will still function, and the Town Map will attempt to, but fail, as the data it would access was relocated or removed altogether.

===Cal===
There is unused {{pkmn|battle}} data for {{ga|Cal}}, the default opponent at the [[Trainer House]]. There are two parties—one with the initial [[evolution]]ary stages of the [[Johto]] starters and one with their second evolutionary stages. As [[Viridian City]] and its Trainer House cannot be legally accessed until much later in the {{player}}'s adventure, it is unknown what purpose these parties would have served.

===Game Corner===
A second card-flipping [[Goldenrod Game Corner|Game Corner]] game exists in the game code. It exists in both the Japanese and English versions, but some text strings for it were not translated for the English versions; resulting in {{wp|mojibake}}.

{{youtubevid|XJsWw2LlKto|IIMarckus}}

===Status prevention hold item effects===
In the game code there are six unused types of hold item effects that prevent the Pokémon holding it from being inflicted with a status ailment.

Four of the effects bring up the text "<Pokémon>'s protected by <item>!", but the ones that prevent the Burn and Freeze ailments, while functionable, do not bring up this message. Hold items with these attributes are not consumed after use, like Leftovers.

It is unknown why these are unused.

===Leftover Mimic Menu===
During the Generation I games, the move {{m|Mimic}} allowed the player to decide what move they wanted to copy. How this move functioned was changed in Generation II to copy the last used move. However, there is still data leftover in the game for the original use of Mimic. It can be added back in using the Gameshark codes '''010111D1''' (Japanese Release) and '''01011FD1''' (US Release). The move is glitchy though, sometimes it brings up the enemy's moves, the player Pokémon's moves, or in some cases; the Pokémon will use {{m|Struggle}} instead. Once the Mimic menu has been opened, it cannot be closed; the player must choose what move to copy. This menu is still present in the Crystal release as well. <ref>[https://tcrf.net/Pok%C3%A9mon_Gold_and_Silver Pokémon Gold and Silver - TCRF]</ref>

===Unused Pokémon Flee Encounters===
Some Pokémon are able to [[Escape|flee]] but are never encountered in the wild. The flee encounters are separated into three tables, (the third table being 100% flee probability is used by the [[Legendary beasts]]). The first table is a 10% chance to flee and the second table is a 50% chance to flee, however; the Pokémon below are never found anywhere.

====Table 1 (10%)====
* {{p|Eevee}}
* {{p|Porygon}}
* {{p|Togetic}}
* {{p|Umbreon}}

====Table 2 (50%)====
* {{p|Articuno}}
* {{p|Zapdos}}
* {{p|Moltres}}

===Unused Battle Types===
The RAM Address '''D119''' determines what type of battle the player character will encounter, there are several battle types that go unused or cannot be experienced through normal gameplay.

==References==
<references/>

==External links==
* [http://web.archive.org/web/20090529070931/http://glitchcity.info/docs/gscsafarizone Glitch City Safari Zone]
* [http://web.archive.org/web/20071202131509/http://www.geocities.com/worldofpkmn/gs_pre/gs_pre.htm Pokémon GS Pre-Release Images] (Wayback archive)
* [http://gameboy.ign.com/ IGN Pocket]
* [http://pkmn.net/?action=content&page=viewpage&id=109&parentsection=1 Pokémon GS prototype Information]
* [http://pkmn.net/?action=content&page=viewpage&id=112&parentsection=1 Pkmn.co.uk Lost Pokémon!]
* [http://pkmn.net/?action=gallery&page=viewgall&id=19 Pkmn.co.uk GS prototype Maps]
* [http://www.freewebs.com/tohjofalls/crysdump.txt Tohjo Falls Crystal Text Dump]
* [http://web.archive.org/web/20041021125709/pokefor.greenchu.de/meowth346/gbc/alpha/ Pokefor.tk Pokémon GS Pre-Release] (Wayback archive)
* [http://web.archive.org/web/20101115173729/http://web.me.com/celebi23/Spaceworld_97_Pokemon/Main.html Pocket Monsters 2 Alpha Release Information] (Wayback archive)
* [http://mltreq.alwaysdata.net/i/beta-song Beta Song]
* [http://mltreq.alwaysdata.net/i/ecruteak-daughter Ecruteak Daughter]

{{beta|gold|silver}} 
{{Project Games notice}}

[[de:Pokémon Gold und Silber (Vorabversion)]]
[[it:Pokémon Oro e Argento beta]]
[[zh:精灵宝可梦金·银研发历史]]

Talk:Pokémon Gold and Silver beta

2018-07-14T22:05:45Z

Ericss:

Talk:Trainer Card (game)

2017-06-20T07:44:20Z

Ericss:

Okay, now I gotta see Ash's. What episode was that in? '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 00:29, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

== Grammer ==

''"However, with the bottom screen of the Nintendo DS adding to the display area in Generation IV, an actual badge case was added where Trainers could actually polish their badges using the stylus."'' I think that maybe one of the actulal(ly)s could be removed to improve the grammer of the whole sentance. [[wp:Dolphin|Dolphins]][[User:Dolphin2|_are]][[Special:Contributions|_awesome]] (and [[Vulpix (Pokémon)|Vulpix]] are too)! 23:35, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
:Limited time only two-for-one deal: both words have been removed. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 23:40, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

== Score ==

Could we get a more detailed section on the Trainer Score? For example, if you complete the Sinnoh Pokédex you get 1000 points, National Pokédex is 10,000, etc. I don't know any other ways to get points, but I'm sure there are some.--[[User:JacobCrystal|JacobCrystal]] 01:30, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

== TCG ==
Shouldn't this have a link at the top of the page for people looking for Trainer cards in the TCG? --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] 12:20, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

:Just plain [[Trainer card]] is a disambiguation page, so no. --[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 15:40, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

== Official names for the cards ==

''Normal Card'' (red), ''Cobalt Card'' (blue), ''Olive Card'' (green), ''Violet Card'' (pink/purple), ''Gray Card'' (gray/silver) and ''Black Card'' (black). From the official HG/SS Guide. Should these be added to the article? [[User:FireMeowth|FireMeowth]] 16:33, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
:Thanks, done. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 03:38, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

==Battle tower streak==

Do you have to make the streak in single battle in order to obtain the star, or can you do it with friends, wi-fi, double battle, etc?

== Nurse Joy's comment on the gold card. ==

When you go to a pokemon center for the first time after getting your Gold card in Emmeral, the nurse will make a comment, saying that it is the first time she has ever seen a trainer with the gold card. After that every time ou go heal up your pokemons, instead of the usual "Welcome to the pokemon center..." sentence, she says "I'm delighted to see you, [player]! You want the usual, am I right?". The rest of the conversation remains unchanged.
It could be nice to have this info somewhere on the page, right? Does this also happen in any of the other games?
Also, I only got the message quickly and didn't transcribe it. If someone can look into the program to check it and transcribe it, it could be cool. Cheers, [[User:Migrant|Migrant]] 15:29, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

== Trainer Stickers ==

I color-coded the headings on the table about the stickers in FR/LG to match the color of the sticker of each level. I think it was worth pointing out. :) [[User:PkmnChmp5|PkmnChmp5]] 03:41, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

== Details ==

Does anyone agree we should have a section somewhere where it says how to rank up the trainer card in each respective game? I can do that for all the DS games at least. Let me know. {{unsigned|Cj1227}}
:We have that, you just didn't look [[Trainer stars|hard enough]]. [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] ([[User talk:Marked +-+-+|talk]]) 16:08, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

== probably a dumb question but... ==

how do you make the 2 frame animation trainer card in pokemon black? it just says it happens and can't find info so must be obvious
:Anything that is written in the blank space will be shown as 2 frame animation. It's not really 'animation' but shows the two frames one aftr the other that's all. Hope u got wat i meant.[[User:Auraguardian197|'''Auraguardian''']][[User talk:Auraguardian197|'''197''']] 05:56, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

== List of Trainer classes ==

I distinctly recall seeing a listing of the selectable Trainer classes somewhere on Bulbapedia, but I couldn't for the life of me find it. Could a link to it be added to this page near the discussion of who to talk to in which games to change it? [[User:ThomasWinwood|ThomasWinwood]] ([[User talk:ThomasWinwood|talk]]) 22:36, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

== Gen VI info is missing ==

There is no info on the page despite the [[Pokémon Center Nurse]] article indicating silver and gold cards in XY.

I came to this article trying find out what I have to do to get the gold card only to be let down by the fact there is no info regarding this. 20:26, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
:That information is actually in the [[Trainer stars]] article. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 20:29, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

== Gen I and II... ==

...had Trainer Cards too, even if the name "trainer card" wasn't mentioned in those games, and they worked similarly. [[User:Ericss|Ericss]] ([[User talk:Ericss|talk]]) 07:43, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

Talk:Trainer Card (game)

2017-06-20T07:43:41Z

Ericss: /* Gen I and II... */ new section

Okay, now I gotta see Ash's. What episode was that in? '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 00:29, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

== Grammer ==

''"However, with the bottom screen of the Nintendo DS adding to the display area in Generation IV, an actual badge case was added where Trainers could actually polish their badges using the stylus."'' I think that maybe one of the actulal(ly)s could be removed to improve the grammer of the whole sentance. [[wp:Dolphin|Dolphins]][[User:Dolphin2|_are]][[Special:Contributions|_awesome]] (and [[Vulpix (Pokémon)|Vulpix]] are too)! 23:35, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
:Limited time only two-for-one deal: both words have been removed. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 23:40, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

== Score ==

Could we get a more detailed section on the Trainer Score? For example, if you complete the Sinnoh Pokédex you get 1000 points, National Pokédex is 10,000, etc. I don't know any other ways to get points, but I'm sure there are some.--[[User:JacobCrystal|JacobCrystal]] 01:30, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

== TCG ==
Shouldn't this have a link at the top of the page for people looking for Trainer cards in the TCG? --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] 12:20, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

:Just plain [[Trainer card]] is a disambiguation page, so no. --[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 15:40, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

== Official names for the cards ==

''Normal Card'' (red), ''Cobalt Card'' (blue), ''Olive Card'' (green), ''Violet Card'' (pink/purple), ''Gray Card'' (gray/silver) and ''Black Card'' (black). From the official HG/SS Guide. Should these be added to the article? [[User:FireMeowth|FireMeowth]] 16:33, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
:Thanks, done. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 03:38, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

==Battle tower streak==

Do you have to make the streak in single battle in order to obtain the star, or can you do it with friends, wi-fi, double battle, etc?

== Nurse Joy's comment on the gold card. ==

When you go to a pokemon center for the first time after getting your Gold card in Emmeral, the nurse will make a comment, saying that it is the first time she has ever seen a trainer with the gold card. After that every time ou go heal up your pokemons, instead of the usual "Welcome to the pokemon center..." sentence, she says "I'm delighted to see you, [player]! You want the usual, am I right?". The rest of the conversation remains unchanged.
It could be nice to have this info somewhere on the page, right? Does this also happen in any of the other games?
Also, I only got the message quickly and didn't transcribe it. If someone can look into the program to check it and transcribe it, it could be cool. Cheers, [[User:Migrant|Migrant]] 15:29, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

== Trainer Stickers ==

I color-coded the headings on the table about the stickers in FR/LG to match the color of the sticker of each level. I think it was worth pointing out. :) [[User:PkmnChmp5|PkmnChmp5]] 03:41, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

== Details ==

Does anyone agree we should have a section somewhere where it says how to rank up the trainer card in each respective game? I can do that for all the DS games at least. Let me know. {{unsigned|Cj1227}}
:We have that, you just didn't look [[Trainer stars|hard enough]]. [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] ([[User talk:Marked +-+-+|talk]]) 16:08, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

== probably a dumb question but... ==

how do you make the 2 frame animation trainer card in pokemon black? it just says it happens and can't find info so must be obvious
:Anything that is written in the blank space will be shown as 2 frame animation. It's not really 'animation' but shows the two frames one aftr the other that's all. Hope u got wat i meant.[[User:Auraguardian197|'''Auraguardian''']][[User talk:Auraguardian197|'''197''']] 05:56, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

== List of Trainer classes ==

I distinctly recall seeing a listing of the selectable Trainer classes somewhere on Bulbapedia, but I couldn't for the life of me find it. Could a link to it be added to this page near the discussion of who to talk to in which games to change it? [[User:ThomasWinwood|ThomasWinwood]] ([[User talk:ThomasWinwood|talk]]) 22:36, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

== Gen VI info is missing ==

There is no info on the page despite the [[Pokémon Center Nurse]] article indicating silver and gold cards in XY.

I came to this article trying find out what I have to do to get the gold card only to be let down by the fact there is no info regarding this. 20:26, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
:That information is actually in the [[Trainer stars]] article. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 20:29, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

== Gen I and II... ==

...had Trainer Cards too, even if they weren't specifically called that, and they worked similarly. [[User:Ericss|Ericss]] ([[User talk:Ericss|talk]]) 07:43, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

Talk:Elio (game)

2017-03-20T12:10:28Z

Ericss: /* Kai and Lana */ new section

==Move?==
Should this be moved to something like {{redlink|Sun (player character)}}? Sun (game) makes it sound like it's about the game, not the character from the game.
The series' tendency to name its main characters the same as its games is a little bit bothersome, at times.
[[User:Xolroc|Xolroc]] ([[User talk:Xolroc|talk]]) 02:24, 19 December 2016 (UTC)
:On second thought, never mind. This follows the same pattern as articles like [[Blue (game)]] and [[Gold (game)]] (the latter a redirect to [[Ethan (game)]]).[[User:Xolroc|Xolroc]] ([[User talk:Xolroc|talk]]) 02:26, 19 December 2016 (UTC)
::If I'm remembering correctly, it used to be "game character", but was shortened for simplicity. It is a little confusing, though. [[User:Nutter Butter|Nutter Butter]] ([[User talk:Nutter Butter|talk]]) 02:29, 19 December 2016 (UTC)
:::I agree that it's a little confusing, but it seems to be the best option we have at the moment. The same-name notice at the top of the article should be sufficient enough to direct visitors to the correct place. '''''[[User:Pokemaster97|--Pokemaster]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|97]]''''' 02:57, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

== Kai ==

Just wanted to point out that "Kai" is also a possible reading of "海" (sea/ocean), such as in "pirate" (海賊 ''kaizoku'') or "sea king" (海王 ''kaiō''). [[User:Ratcicle Fan|Ratcicle Fan]] ([[User talk:Ratcicle Fan|talk]]) 14:41, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

== Age ==

In the Aether Paradise, it is revealed that the player character is "around 11 years old." Thought I'd mention it first instead of just adding it. [[User:KyuremsIceBlade|'''''Kyurem's''''']] [[User talk:KyuremsIceBlade|'''''Ice''''']] [[Special:Contributions/KyuremsIceBlade|'''''Blade''''']] 03:33, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

== Hometown ==

Sun is the only player character to not have a hometown, living in a route instead for the fist time in a core series game in the pokémon franchise.--[[User:Robin Maximo|Robin Maximo]] ([[User talk:Robin Maximo|talk]]) 20:25, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

== Kai and Lana ==

If there is internal data in the games that calls the player characters of S/M Kai and Lana, then why on Earth aren't we calling them that? That's what we do for the female PC of FR/LG. We call her Leaf based entirely on the data in the game code. [[User:Ericss|Ericss]] ([[User talk:Ericss|talk]]) 12:10, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

Talk:Move Reminder

2017-03-15T03:37:11Z

Ericss:

Should we add Mystery Dungeon on here? [[User:Ht14|ht14]] 01:38, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

==Eevee, Take-down, and Relearning==

This whole thing has been bugging me for quite some time now.

Eevee is a poor example of the limitations of the Move Relearner; in fact, Take-Down is just the sort of move the Move Relearner is made for. You level Eevee up until it learns Take-Down, then evolve, then use the Move Relearner to get the evolution's moves that you want. So rather than being an example of restrictions on the Move Relearner, it is in fact an example of HOW to use a Move Relearner. The only other true purpose of the Move Relearner is to gain 1st level moves (and, I guess, to remember moves you were forced to forget for an HM or something, but that's just poor planning and not a necessary problem). [[User:Kumori Satosuke|Satosuke]] 06:31, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Actually what makes Eevee special is that it is the only known Pokémon to use 3 different types of evolution methods, Take Down is the example of something that only Eevee can learn, though technically any Eevee-exclusive move will qualify. -[[User:Tyler53841|Tyler53841]] 06:34, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

== More specific? ==

The article leaves me a tad confused by "species". Does it mean, literally, the listed species of a pokémon? For instance, Chimchar and Infernape are both of the species "Blaze" pokémon. Chimchar can learn Flamethrower or Slack Off by levelling up, but Infernape can't. If you took an Infernape to the move relearner, could it learn these moves? It hasn't changed species, but it has evolved, and they aren't in its learnset any more. At present the article doesn't seem to answer this question for me. [[User:Darien Shields|Darien Shields]] 22:49, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
:No. Species here means the [[Pokémon#Species|Pokémon species]]. So, no, Infernape cannot learn Slack Off or Flamethrower unless it learns them at the Chimchar stage. I'll add a link to the article to avoid further confusion. — [[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|THE TROM]] — 23:23, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
::1. So if Chimchar learns Slack Off for example, then evolves up to Infernape, then Infernape forgets Slack Off, can Slack Off be relearnt?
::2. How about bred moves that are forgotten? E.g. If I breed Blaze Kick to Chimchar, then he forgets it, can Blaze Kick be relearnt? --[[User talk:Qwertyasdf|(QQ)∞wertyasdf]] 05:40, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
:::I don't believe so. You can't relearn TM moves once you delete them, right? It'll act the same. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 05:52, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
::::So no to both my questions? --[[User talk:Qwertyasdf|(QQ)∞wertyasdf]] 05:59, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
:::::Pretty much anything that is deleted which is not listed in that Pokémon's level up moveset can't be relearned and unless if it is not a one-of-a kind move then you have to start over with the process with TM's, HM's, Breeding, and Move Tutors plain and simple which is why I conduct research to avoid these problems. So just research the level up movesets more closely and if you want take precautions thats the best advice I can give.-[[User:Tyler53841|Tyler53841]] 06:05, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

== Number of uses? ==

I have thought for a few years that any particular move could only be relearned once by any particular pokemon, specifically that a pokemon could not relearn a level list move that it had already relearned once before but later forgotten. Was this ever really the case? [[User:PLA|PLA]] 09:40, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
: No. --[[User:HeroicJay|HeroicJay]] 09:47, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
:: Thank you. [[User:PLA|PLA]] 09:48, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

== Character name ==

I wonder if there is an official (i.e: consistent) English term for the move-relearning character yet?

I remember Back in Hoenn the guy merely introduced himself as a "move tutor", being different from others in Emerald because he claimed to know "all" Pokemon moves but would only do so in exchange for collecting Heart Scales.

In Black 2 and White 2, the move relearner (now set up at the Pokemon World Tournament) actually calls herself "the reminder girl"; when you check the PWT on your Town Map, she is listed as the "Move Reminder". --''[[User:Stratelier|Stratelier]]'' 17:00, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
:Bringing this back up. All of this is true, and should be on the article. --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 02:34, 9 December 2012 (UTC)
::Totally agreed. [[User:Mathfreak231|Mathfreak231 is a bawse :)]] ([[User talk:Mathfreak231|talk]]) 23:40, 13 January 2013 (UTC)
:::The Sevii Islands guy calls himself the "POKéMON MOVE MANIAC". However, I think "Move Reminder", the most recent official term, should be used for the page title. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 07:11, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
::::I agree, the most recent term should be used. However, an auto-redirect from "Move Relearner" shoud be added. --[[User:Csaint482|Csaint482]] ([[User talk:Csaint482|talk]]) 16:40, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
:::::Csaint's idea sounds like the best idea to me. --[[User:WyndFox|Wynd]] [[User talk:WyndFox|Fox]] 01:43, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
Done. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 22:41, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

== Dream World Moves ==

If a Pokémon came from the dream world with a special move (ex. a Tangela with Leech Seed), will that move be available to relearn if it is removed? [[User:SoItBegins|SoItBegins]] ([[User talk:SoItBegins|talk]]) 03:48, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

== Actually Forgotten Moves ==

I just corrected the {{p|Eevee}} page, which erroneously stated that Swift was a starting move in Generation VI. I think what actually happened was that an Eevee was bred and the father knew Swift, meaning the resulting offspring also knew Swift. Why is this important? Because in Generation VI, if you delete a move that a Pokémon knows at a too-low level due to breeding, you can still "remember" it through the Move Reminder. For me, I noticed that Bite was in the list after I deleted it, and the Eevee was still level 1. --[[User:GuyPerfect|GuyPerfect]] ([[User talk:GuyPerfect|talk]]) 04:44, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

: Note that in Generation VI, Eevees naturally learn Swift at level 10 and can be found in the wild knowing it, so it's easy to pass down. And on a related tangent, it is being anecdotally reported that the Generation VI Move Reminder can teach egg moves (like {{m|Wish}} for Eevee) back to a Pokemon, but only if the Pokemon ''actually knew the move when it hatched''. This seems an interesting detail to note.... --''[[User:Stratelier|Stratelier]]'' 19:59, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

:: Right, it's the same deal. A hatched Eevee that knows, say, Bite, or Swift, then forgets it, can be taught it again at a Move Reminder. A hatched Eevee that did not know those moves cannot be "reminded" of them, and they'll need to reach the appropriate level to learn them. --[[User:GuyPerfect|GuyPerfect]] ([[User talk:GuyPerfect|talk]]) 16:53, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

== Egg Moves ==

Sorry about my edit. I had a moment of stupidity. Derp. [[User:Jwisser|Jwisser]] ([[User talk:Jwisser|talk]]) 21:06, 14 December 2013 (UTC)

== A Question ==

I am wondering if a move reminder will work on a [[move]] a Pokémon learned at [[level]] 100. For an example, Mewtwo learns {{m|Psystrike}} at level 100. Or if a Pokémon is transferred to another [[generation]], will it be able to learn an old move on that generation. Thanks. ----[[User:Ethan7|Ethan]] ''([[User talk:Ethan7|Discussion]])'' 22:17, 15 January 2014 (UTC)
:It's yes for the first question. For the second, is the old move a move it can learn through level up (or an egg move in Generation VI) in that generation? If so then yes, if not, no. --[[User:Funktastic~!|'''It's''' '''Funktastic~!''']][[User talk:Funktastic~!|''話してください'']] 22:22, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

== Global Link Rewards ==

It should be noted that Heart Scales can be obtained in Generation VI by exchanging Poké Miles for them at the Pokémon Global Link website. [[User:NerfPlayeR135|NerfPlayeR135]] ([[User talk:NerfPlayeR135|talk]]) 20:20, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
:Heart Scales are already readily available in-game. [[User:Glik|Glik]] ([[User talk:Glik|talk]]) 20:40, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

== Something Odd ==

I hatched an Oshawott that only knew Tackle, then took him to the Generation VI Move Reminder. It said that Oshawott could "relearn" Water Sport, even though it never knew the move. Any explanation? [[User:NerfPlayeR135|NerfPlayeR135]] ([[User talk:NerfPlayeR135|talk]]) 20:24, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

== Clarification on Moves Exclusive to Pre-Evolved Forms ==

Because it seems the mechanics have changed since last someone asked, If a Pokemon learns a move, evolves into a Pokemon that can't learn that move, and then forgets said move, Can it be reminded of it? I ask because you can now remember egg and event-exclusive moves (if said Pokemon had actually known them at some point), implying to me that the Move Reminder can now also literally remind Pokemon of any move they've ever learned; so while a Vaporeon that evolved before it learned Take Down as an Eevee obviously wouldn't be able to learn Take Down ''for the first time'', but could a Vaporeon that HAD learned Take Down as an Eevee before evolving use Move Reminder to relearn Take Down? [[User:Masternachos|Masternachos]] ([[User talk:Masternachos|talk]]) 17:13, 9 March 2017 (UTC)
:Still no. My Ninetales knows Icy Wind, and cannot relearn it when it forgets it. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 17:27, 9 March 2017 (UTC)
::Thank you. [[User:Masternachos|Masternachos]] ([[User talk:Masternachos|talk]]) 17:20, 10 March 2017 (UTC)
:::When a Pokémon is generated as an Egg or obtained via Mystery Gift (or obtained with a special moves as hidden Pokémon/Island Scan Pokémon), there are four slots which can store moves that can be relearned as special moves from the Move Reminder. The special relearnable moves are only set when the Pokémon is obtained, so moves known by pre-evolutions are not included this way.
:::However, if you were to breed a Pokémon with a female Vulpix that both knew Icy Wind, since the baby Vulpix will inherit the move Icy Wind rather than knowing it due to leveling up, I believe that even a Ninetales evolved from such a baby Vulpix would be able to relearn the move if it forgot it. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 10:31, 11 March 2017 (UTC)
::::So if I understand, Pokemon can remember egg moves they inherited because they're egg moves [that they were bred with], NOT simply because they're moves they actually knew. So if a Pokemon transferred from an earlier generation knows a move it can't learn this generation and forgets it, it is now forever lost, correct? [[User:Masternachos|Masternachos]] ([[User talk:Masternachos|talk]]) 17:45, 11 March 2017 (UTC)
:::::Yes, that's correct. Although it's not only Egg Moves that can be taught again if forgotten, but any move that is inherited if bred in Gen VI onward (so including Volt Tackle and level-up moves known by both parents). --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 01:22, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

Talk:Move Reminder

2017-03-15T03:36:45Z

Ericss: /* Stadium 2 */ new section

Talk:Viridian City (song)

2017-01-30T09:11:36Z

Ericss:

When I've seen that the Pichu-Bros. Song has foreign lyrics, I thought we should foreign lyrics to other songs. Is this a good idea? --[[User:Furanty|Furanty]] 19:16, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Don't you people think that we should include the lyrics of the short version as well? [[User:Ericss|Ericss]] ([[User talk:Ericss|talk]]) 09:11, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

Talk:Player character

2017-01-01T17:53:40Z

Ericss:

I suggest merge of [[Player character]] and [[Rival]], as well as categorisation according to the game instead of the Region. Also, I believe Pokemon Ranger characters should be added as main characters, considering that Pokemon Ranger is actually a main Pokemon Game.

Anyone have the Emerald sprite of May? [[User:Porygon-Z|'''Porygon-Z''']][ 14:12, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
:And again that request is made. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 03:59, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

== Re-write? ==

Does anyone else think this article needs a re-write? [[User:PDL|PDL]] 03:14, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
:Do you have a reason? [[User:Ht14|''ht'']][[User talk:Ht14|''14'']] 02:03, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
:It seems kinda... messy. It's not that hard really explain how a player character works in a video game. [[User:PDL|PDL]] 02:50, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

== Backsprites ==

I was thinking that we could take a page from the Pokémon pages and find the backsprites of the player characters as well as the partner characters (like Steven and Buck).--[[User:MisterE13|MisterE13]] 03:05, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

== Mentioning of Player in Mystery Dungeon? ==

There's not really much more to say... [[User:The Dark Fiddler|The Dark Fiddler]] - [[User talk:The Dark Fiddler|Nos hablamos?]] 01:36, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
:Or the player in Trozei (being the user him/herself). Or in any of the other games, for that matter. What about Snap? I feel like this should be a stub. [[User:Jazzmoth|Jazzmoth]] 05:16, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
::Actually, the player in Trozei (or Link, as we call it over here) is [[Lucy Fleetfoot]]. [[User:Flicky|Fli]][[User talk:Flicky|cky]][[User:Flicky/Latin|1991]] 17:59, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
:::And that's a stub, if I've ever seen one. [[User:Jazzmoth|Jazzmoth]] 02:07, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

== *COUGH* ==

Why do we need backsprites?--[[User:RexRacer|'''Rex]][[Quilava (Pokémon)|Racer''']] [[User talk:RexRacer|'''''-talk''''']] 02:34, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
:We have them for Pokémon. So why not characters.--[[User:MisterE13|Mister]][[User talk:MisterE13|'''E''']][[Special:Contributions/MisterE13|13]] 02:54, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
::Because it made the page wayyy to big. Maybe if we didn't just have one, but all of those broken links look just awful.--[[User:RexRacer|'''Rex]][[Quilava (Pokémon)|Racer''']] [[User talk:RexRacer|'''''-talk''''']] 02:58, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
:::We could resize them. We also have broken links on the Pokémon pages IMHO, it just lets someone know that the images should be created.--[[User:MisterE13|Mister]][[User talk:MisterE13|'''E''']][[Special:Contributions/MisterE13|13]] 03:01, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
::::Resize? Eww. Only one Pokémon even does that, and it's Deoxys. Perhaps I'll do a hack of the sprite template that'll allow for it. Or you can. I dunno. Yeah. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 09:07, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
:::::I might be able to. what exactly do you mean?--[[User:MisterE13|Mister]][[User talk:MisterE13|'''E''']][[Special:Contributions/MisterE13|13]] 21:38, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

== Michael and What's his name... ==

What about side game characters? [[User:Ht14|''ht'']][[User talk:Ht14|''14'']] 03:52, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
:Lunick, Solana, the players in PMD, yeah they should go here. And if they do, the part about being remarkably silent doesn't apply to PMD.[[User:Kiryu|Kiryu]] 05:55, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

== Dawn and Luca's Platinum sprites ==

They're not uploaded yet,right? Can someone upload them? [[User:Lovely Rose|Lovely Rose]] 21:45, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

== Two little things ==

Couldn't the table also hold the overworld sprite for each character? I don't think they appear anywhere else. Also, HgSs will require another column for Gold and Kris, should I change it? [[User:Mr. Charlie|Mr. ]][[User talk:Mr. Charlie|Charlie]] 03:04, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

== Gamecube game characters? ==

What about Wes and Michael? I see no reason for them to be excluded. Sure, we wouldn't have as many pictures since they appear in 3D games, but I really can't consider those games to be side-games. They're full-fledged Pokemon RPGs, just like the handhelds. [[User:Cheesedude|Cheesedude]] 02:07, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
:Umm...already stated... [[User:Ht14|'''''ht''''']][[User talk:Ht14|''14'']] 02:08, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
::Missed it due to the lack of pictures. Nevermind. Sorry. [[User:Cheesedude|Cheesedude]] 02:09, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

== Ranger ==

Shouldn't we list the player characters in Ranger? --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 03:35, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
:I will. [[User:Tc26/Anime Predictions|tc]][[User:Tc26|²₆]][[User talk:Tc26|tc]][[User:Tc26/Sandbox|26]] 03:36, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

== The new girl ==

Since we're not getting Kris back, as she's more a Crystal character than a GS (and by extension, HGSS) character, what should we name the new girl since we don't know her name and likely won't be getting it?

I say Soul, since, like Leaf, she'll likely be named for the prefix of the secondary remake game, while her male counterpart is the primary original game (Gold, like Red) and her rival is the secondary original game (Silver, like Blue/Green).

Should we make an article yet, though? I've protected both Heart and {{ga|Soul}} until the tenth anniversary of GS, so... no need to worry there. Plus, we can move it when and if we get her real name either via hacking the games to pieces or because they actually '''give her one outright'''. But it never happened to Leaf, so... we'll just wait to see, eh?

So, below, vote: make it, don't make it, and under what name? '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 04:52, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

:There are still some arguments that she is Kris but with a major redesign. Kinda like Red in FRLG. But I don't know. I say Soul because of the reason you stated (even though I like Heart better). Make it under {{ga|Soul}}. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 04:59, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

::Let's wait till the game is released. An opposite-gender player will have a supporting role, which means there'll be a fixed name for her. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 05:15, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

:::Well, we shouldn't wait six months to make an article about a character from the Pokémon games. I like Soul, but make sure that it is noted that until confirmation it is a fan name. When CoroCoro comes out I'll have at it and see if it is noted anywhere amidst the crazyness.--[[User:RexRacer|'''Rex]][[User talk:RexRacer|Racer''']] 05:24, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
::::Maxim... that's for Gen III and IV games. HGSS is a Gen II game (technically). Where was Leaf's supporting role? Did I somehow ''miss her'' in FireRed, despite completing the game 100%? '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 06:25, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
::::: My vote goes for making an article, or at least starting one that we can move to the proper place when the name is revealed. [[User:Trainer-c|Trainer-c]] 06:33, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
::::::I vote for making the article. Call it Soul or whatever you want, see if I care. I'm too upset with the decision of erasing Kris from the Pokémon World to even bother. Kris is the best thing that ever happened to the Pokémon franchise. [[User:Mr. Charlie|Mr. ]][[User talk:Mr. Charlie|Charlie]] 06:43, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
:::::::Your right Mr. Charlie, if it wasn't for Kris there wouldn't be girl characters. Then they go and replace her with a girl with Mario's overolls and a '''HUGE''' hat. I felt like crying :(
See my page, the part with my pokemon trainers. I'm not going to touch it untill some more info on this "Soul".[[User:Glitchym1|Glitchym1]] 21:55, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
Scratch that last thing I said, I'll call her Soul Kamon.[[User:Glitchym1|Glitchym1]] 22:10, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

== Titles... ==

Color clashing... [[User:Ht14|'''''ht''''']][[User talk:Ht14|''14'']] 01:17, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
:Should be better now. — [[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|THE TROM]] — 01:48, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

== Overhead sprites ==

Think we should add those too? --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 10:43, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
:Old question but sounds like a good idea. However, we need someone able to rip sprites to do that. [[User:Pokemon lover|ポケモン]][[User talk:Pokemon lover|あいこうか]] 19:21, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

== Gold's backsprite ==

Why do we even have it there? Anyway,they changed his backsprite,but the article still shows the original one. Is the screenshot to small? [[User:Lovely Rose|Lovely Rose]] 01:22, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
:There are two there already... [[User:Tc26/Anime Predictions|tc]][[User:Tc26|²₆]][[User talk:Tc26|tc]][[User:Tc26/Sandbox|26]] 02:39, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
::I meant his Heartgold and Soulsilver backsprite,they changed [http://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee357/Pichu_Chu/con01_img04.jpg it],it's slightly different. For example,his hair isn't parted. [[User:Lovely Rose|Lovely Rose]] 22:46, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
I guess it could be one of the first beta things for HGSS, but its still to early to tell, they could change it again--[[User:Pokéboy93|Pokéboy93]] 04:55, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

i think we should wait because the back sprite is changing in recent pictures he does not have the symbol on the back of his hat.--[[User:Pokéboy93|Pokéboy93]] 17:10, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

== Counterparts for missing ==

May and Dawn needs on their respective webs a section of counterparts like Red, Gold, Kris and Kotone, please sombebody cna do it? --Ash 20:50, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

== Wes is one of the few that "doesnt wear head gear" trivia ==

Ummm... I own Colosseum and it shows him wearing silver visors in his hair, and also if you go to his page you can see he's wearing them as headgear in the photo. But, every time I try to remove Wes from that part of the trivia, someone puts him back in...

Visors aren't headgear. They're eyeware. [[User:67h5r6h|67h5r6h]] 19:12, 15 July 2010 (UTC)67h5r6h

== Gold's HGSS Name ==

Until HG and SS are released here (as short a time as that'll be), Gold's HGSS sprite should be titled "Hibiki". Then there's the matter of Silver seemingly being "rival"/"Rival" rather than truly named, but a lack of name rationalizes attributing "Silver" to him my my count (though that's not so much here as it is there, on the rivals' page). [[User:TJF588|TJF588]] 01:47, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
:There has been a heap of discussion about these characters' names all over the pedia (for example, here), and the consensus reached is that we ain't touching anything until the games are released. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 01:49, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

== Protection ==

I personally think we should protect this page considering the Generation V boy and girl heroes have been revealed with little detail for both. The main reason is because I know someone out there will post fake images and ridiculous speculation. [[User:Ninterror|Ninterror]] 11:52, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
:I'd rather we assumed good faith and left it open. We'll see how it goes for now. When the details really start to come out, we can rethink. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 10:32, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, about that, shouldn't somebody put info and pics about BW player characters?

== Stadium characters ==

Do they count as player characters? You honestly don't really play as them, as in moving them or anything, but you do tell your Pokemon what to do, which is the players ability. So you ''technically'' do play as them. Also, they aren't Ethan and Kris. Or even actually, any other protagonist [[User:Lovely Rose|Lovely Rose]] 14:06, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
:Of course they do. You control them just as much as Lucy Fleetfoot. They are 100% player characters, in my opinion. The fact that you don't walk using them doesn't make them any worse. I think I could upload their faceshots and add them to this article. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 18:25, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

== What's wrong? ==

I can't see the bottom of this page. It dead-ends after the template with Ranger Characters. Does this happen just to me, or is there something screwed-up in the coding? It doesn't happen when I view older revisions of the article. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 11:04, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
:Works fine for me. I think it's because of all the internal trouble and stuff the the 'pedia's been experiencing recently. It happend to me the other day, on a different page. [[User:Takharii|<sc>Takharii</sc>]] '''~''' [[User talk:Takharii|<sc>Talk!</sc>]] 11:10, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
::Works because I just fixed it. Someone had added there a HTML comment but forgot to close it... '''UltimateSephiroth''' ([[User:UltimateSephiroth|about me]] · [[User talk:UltimateSephiroth|chat]] · [[Special:Contributions/UltimateSephiroth|edits]]) 11:14, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

== Black and White Trainers? ==

I'm a bit surprised they aren't featured here. I understand them not getting their own pages (yet) due to the scarcity of information on them, but I can't even find their images on this site. {{unsigned|Clark Griswald}}

They probably just want to avoid speculation. Personally, I'm just glad the male trainer has a normal hair color. First in Generation III it was white, then in IV it looked purple (although ingame it looked more like black)
On a somewhat related note, does anyone have any idea why the player characters from black and white are older than in previous games?[[User:67h5r6h|67h5r6h]] 19:10, 15 July 2010 (UTC)67h5r6h
:No Black and White until we actually know something about them. And no opinionated chat here. There are in fact pictures of the BW main characters in the group shot in the article. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 20:20, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

The male trainer in Generation III has black hair. In the manga, it revealed that the white part was a hat. And if you look closely under the headband, you could see some black hair. ([[User:Holonboy|Holonboy]] 06:33, 26 August 2010 (UTC))

== Trivia ==

Does anyone else think it's worth mentioning that each of the main series player characters have a hat of some sort? '''''[[Special:Contributions/Shiny_Rayquaza|→→→]] [[User:Shiny Rayquaza|Shiny]] [[User talk:Shiny Rayquaza|Rayquaza]]''''' 02:10, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
:I wouldn't count May's as a hat so much as a headband, but since Brendan's is a hat, then I do think it's worth mentioning. [[User:Phantomjunkie|Phantom]]♫[[User talk:Phantomjunkie|Junkie]] 03:55, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
::Bah I meant bandanna, not headband. [[User:Phantomjunkie|Phantom]]♫[[User talk:Phantomjunkie|Junkie]] 03:55, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
:::It would probably better to use the word "headgear", so that the trivia point encompasses all the player characters. <sc>[[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]]</sc> [[User talk:Werdnae|(talk)]] 05:35, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

== Optional names for <player character> ==

I've made a few templates to replace the old ones on each page. [[User:Takharii/sandbox#'In other languages' template|They're both here]]. Which one does everyone like better? [[User:Takharii|'''たか''']][[User talk:Takharii|'''はり''']][[Special:Contributions/Takharii|'''い''']] 09:34, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
:Colors of the first one on the second design. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 09:46, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

== Pokemon Channel ==
What about Pokemon channel? I know you never see the character, but it is still a game and the name should be mentioned. [[User:Gliscorguy54|Gliscorguy54]] 20:06, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

== Sprites ==

Are you sure that the edits by ''Ash Pokemaster‏'' is right? Does this page no longer needed the sprites from previous generations? [[User:Ruixiang95|Ruixiang95]] 10:38, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
:Well, there isn't really a need for them. The page was listing all the protagonists. Not listing all their sprites. I somewhat agree with it. '''[[User:Blake|Blake]]''' [[User talk:Blake#top|Talk]]·[[Special:Contributions/Blake|Edits]] 21:28, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
::If you need sprites you can always use a [http://www.spriters-resource.com/ sprites resource]! Heck, you can even open the article of each character to find them. I don't think there's need for sprites to be placed in every possible article. The article looks much more elegant now, albeit incomplete. :P
::Also, this isn't a perfect design or anything. I just tried to make it look more proper for the wiki, but it still needs work. First of all, there is need for this style to be applied in other characters as well. It would also probably be handy to combine the male the female characters boxes. But either way, I think that it looks fine now. [[User:Ash Pokemaster|Ash_Pokemaster]] 23:58, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

== Ranger Backs & Main Series ==

First off, anyone got the underwater Ranger backs? And second off, what happened to/was wrong with that proper collection of sprites under characters? [[User:Giratina's Embodiment|Giratina's Embodiment]] - [[User talk:Giratina's Embodiment|Please don't hurt us...]] 22:13, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
:See just abobe. :) [[User:Ash Pokemaster|Ash_Pokemaster]] 16:36, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

== Typing DS chars ==

They did have some sprites, right? I think they also had some default names, didn't they? They may not be worth their own articles but I think they should definitely be included here. Can anyone who has a copy check their names (and upload sprites, if possible)? --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 10:57, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

== P+NA ==

is there art of the player characters from Pokémon + Nobunaga's Ambition we could put on here? [[User:Volcronaperson|Volcronaperson]] 00:33, 24 March 2012 (UTC)
Yes there is. Now it is on this page.

== Black and White 2 Trainers ==

http://www.pokemon.co.jp/ex/b2w2/characters/

Just thought they should be added to the group shot now that good pics are out. {{unsigned|Clark Griswald}}

== X and Y ==

Do we have a confirmed name here?

http://www.pokemonxy.com/_ui/img/_en/screenshots/june_p14_04.jpg

[[User:Duke R|'''|) u |( e''']] [[User talk:Duke R|'''®''']] 14:44, 11 June 2013 (UTC)
:It looks likely, but we may need to wait until both are revealed. Xavier does sound like a good name for the male protagonist... [[User:Berrenta|Berrenta]] ([[User talk:Berrenta|talk]]) 15:00, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

::Looks like the X and Y player character's names are Yvonne (girl) and Xavier (boy). '''Seeming they used the boy's name again, I'd say it's highly probable that these are their default names, but I'm not the one to judge, and I think we should still wait a bit longer, just in case.''' [[User:Zarthga|Zarthga]] ([[User talk:Zarthga|talk]]) 09:49, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

http://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/5/5b/XY_Prerelease_PSS_battle_1.png

:It feels like you guys might be jumping the gun here. While their names might very well end up being these, there is years of precedence in the Pokemon franchise for pre-release "tentative" player names to later be scrapped altogether for the finished product.

:Not really fond of the mindset of "closest thing to canon right now" being of encyclopedic material. [[User:Gacs|Gacs]] ([[User talk:Gacs|talk]]) 03:24, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

::Not to mention these are not the only names we have seen for these characters, with the latest being Callum and Serena. [[User:Gohan5|Gohan5]] ([[User talk:Gohan5|talk]]) 13:11, 13 June 2013 (UTC)
:::Those are the Japanese names. Although it should be noted that the Japanese equivalent of those pictures used "X" and "Y" in katakana, so it's very unlikely that those will be the final names. We'll have to wait till tomorrow, I suppose. [[User:Ataro|Ataro]] ([[User talk:Ataro|talk]]) 13:22, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

::::I would honestly not be surprised at all if Callum and Serena wind up being universal (or partially), given how this is the first time in the history of the series where player characters of the Japanese version are being given distinctive and real non-Japanese names (Western ones, to boot). [[User:Gacs|Gacs]] ([[User talk:Gacs|talk]]) 07:50, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

:Calem and Serena has been confirmed as the main characters' name in English version.([[User:E9310103838|E9310103838]] ([[User talk:E9310103838|talk]]) 09:01, 15 June 2013 (UTC))
::Is there a reason we haven't made pages for Calem and Serena yet? [[User:Vienna Waltz|Vienna Waltz]] ([[User talk:Vienna Waltz|talk]]) 00:39, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
::I think we have a misunderstood here, please check the official page of Pokemon, thay only wrote, "Serena or Calem - Your next-door neighbor in Vaniville will set out on a journey just like everyone else, with the goal of becoming a powerful Pokémon Trainer. If your character is a boy, your neighbor will be Serena. If you play as a girl, Calem will be your neighbor." - [[User:Theodorethebear|Theodorethebear]] ([[User talk:Theodorethebear|talk]]) 12:06, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
:::To Vienna Waltz, it's because we don't have that much info on them right now. To Theodorethebear, yes, it does say that. What's your point? [[User:Ataro|Ataro]] ([[User talk:Ataro|talk]]) 12:46, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

== Female Character ==

This page says if the female player is chosen on the [[Crystal]] game pack the female character will appear. But when I chose the male on Crystal the female character still appears. I think when any Crystal game pack is used then the female character will appear. ----[[User:Ethan7|Ethan]] ''([[User talk:Ethan|Talk]])'' 04:12, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

== Player height and weight ==

*{{ga|Ethan}} was 4'11" tall and weighed 88.2 lbs in HeartGold and SoulSilver.
*{{ga|Lyra}} is 4'11" tall and weighs 90.4 lbs.
*{{ga|Lucas}} is 4'7" (143 cm) tall and weighs 83.8 lbs (38 kg).
*{{ga|Dawn}} is 4'6" (1.40 m) tall and weighs 75 lbs (34 kg).

Those trivia bits are in those articles. I don't know where they came from. (I suspect the [[Pokédex]].) It seems as though we only have it for the [[Generation IV]] protagonists. The function that allowed the player character to be compared to a Pokémon was apparently added in Generation III, according to the Pokédex page, so why isn't it known for {{ga|Red}}, {{ga|Leaf}}, {{ga|Brendan}}, or {{ga|May}}? --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 03:56, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
:At least in HGSS, the height and weight for the PCs is physically spelled out, meaning the game tells you outright that the characters are this height and weight (so I suspect it's the same for DPPt). In Ruby and FR (the games I checked), there are only rough silhouette depictions and no numbers (and certainly no weight comparisons). So it's impossible to add anything for the Gen 3 protags that isn't guesswork. [[User:ArcToraphim|Kai]] * the [[User talk:ArcToraphim|Arc]] [[Special:Contributions/ArcToraphim|Toraph]] 13:29, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

== Suggestion ==

{| style="margin:auto; text-align:center; {{roundy|20px}} border: 4px solid #BABACC; background:#F3F3FF"
|- style="font-size: 95%; font-weight: bold"
| style="background:#D1D1E6; {{roundytl|15px}}" | {{color2|{{red color dark}}|Pokémon Red and Blue Versions|R}}{{color2|{{green color dark}}|Pokémon Red and Green Versions|G}}{{color2|{{blue color dark}}|Pokémon Blue Version (Japanese)|B}}{{color2|{{yellow color dark}}|Pokémon Yellow Version|Y}}
| style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color2|{{firered color dark}}|Pokémon FireRed and LeafGreen Versions|FR}}{{color2|{{leafgreen color dark}}|Pokémon FireRed and LeafGreen Versions|LG}}
| style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color2|{{gold color dark}}|Pokémon Gold and Silver Versions|G}}{{color2|{{silver color dark}}|Pokémon Gold and Silver Versions|S}}
| style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color2|{{crystal color dark}}|Pokémon Crystal Version|C}}
| style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color2|{{heartgold color dark}}|Pokémon HeartGold and SoulSilver Versions|HG}}{{color2|{{soulsilver color dark}}|Pokémon HeartGold and SoulSilver Versions|SS}}
| style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color2|{{ruby color dark}}|Pokémon Ruby and Sapphire Versions|R}}{{color2|{{sapphire color dark}}|Pokémon Ruby and Sapphire Versions|S}}{{color2|{{emerald color dark}}|Pokémon Emerald Version|E}}{{color2|{{Omega Ruby color dark}}|Pokémon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire|OR}}{{color2|{{Alpha Sapphire color dark}}|Pokémon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire|AS}}
| style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color2|{{diamond color dark}}|Pokémon Diamond and Pearl Versions|D}}{{color2|{{pearl color dark}}|Pokémon Diamond and Pearl Versions|P}}{{color2|{{platinum color dark}}|Pokémon Platinum Version|Pt}}
| style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color2|{{black color dark}}|Pokémon Black and White Versions|B}}{{color2|{{white color dark}}|Pokémon Black and White Versions|W}}
| style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color2|{{black 2 color dark}}|Pokémon Black and White Versions 2|B2}}{{color2|{{white 2 color dark}}|Pokémon Black and White Versions 2|W2}}
| style="background:#D1D1E6; {{roundytr|15px}}" | {{color2|{{X color dark}}|Pokémon X and Y|X}}{{color2|{{Y color dark}}|Pokémon X and Y|Y}}
|-
| colspan="2" style="border: 0px solid #{{red color dark}}; background: #{{red color light}}; width:84px; height:90px"|
[[File:FireRed LeafGreen Red.png|100x100px]]
| colspan="3" style="border: 0px solid #{{gold color dark}}; background: #{{gold color light}}; width:84px; height:90px"|
[[File:HeartGold SoulSilver Ethan.png|100x100px]]
| style="border: 0px solid #{{ruby color dark}}; background: #{{ruby color light}}; width:84px; height:90px"|
[[File:Omega Ruby Alpha Sapphire Brendan.png|100x100px]]
| style="border: 0px solid #{{diamond color dark}}; background: #{{diamond color light}}; width:84px; height:90px"|
[[File:Platinum Lucas.png|100x100px]]
| style="border: 0px solid #{{black color dark}}; background: #{{black color light}}; width:84px; height:90px"|
[[File:Black White Hilbert.png|100x100px]]
| style="border: 0px solid #{{black 2 color dark}}; background: #{{black 2 color light}}; width:84px; height:90px"|
[[File:Black 2 White 2 Nate.png|100x100px]]
| style="border: 0px solid #{{x color dark}}; background: #{{x color light}}; width:84px; height:90px"|
[[File:XY Calem.png|100x100px]]
|- style="font-size: 90%"
| colspan="2" style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color2|000|Red (game)|Red}}
| colspan="3" style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color2|000|Ethan (game)|Ethan}}
| style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color2|000|Brendan (game)|Brendan}}
| style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color2|000|Lucas (game)|Lucas}}
| style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color2|000|Hilbert (game)|Hilbert}}
| style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color2|000|Nate (game)|Nate}}
| style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color2|000|Calem (game)|Calem}}
|-
|
| style="border: 0px solid #{{leafgreen color dark}}; background: #{{leafgreen color light}}; width:84px; height:90px"|
[[File:FireRed LeafGreen Leaf.png|100x100px]]
|
| style="border: 0px solid #{{crystal color dark}}; background: #{{crystal color light}}; width:84px; height:90px"|
[[File:Crystal Kris.png|100x100px]]
| style="border: 0px solid #{{soulsilver color dark}}; background: #{{soulsilver color light}}; width:84px; height:90px"|
[[File:HeartGold SoulSilver Lyra.png|100x100px]]
| style="border: 0px solid #{{sapphire color dark}}; background: #{{sapphire color light}}; width:84px; height:90px"|
[[File:Omega Ruby Alpha Sapphire May.png|100x100px]]
| style="border: 0px solid #{{pearl color dark}}; background: #{{pearl color light}}; width:84px; height:90px"|
[[File:Platinum Dawn.png|100x100px]]
| style="border: 0px solid #{{white color dark}}; background: #{{white color light}}; width:84px; height:90px"|
[[File:Black White Hilda.png|100x100px]]
| style="border: 0px solid #{{white 2 color dark}}; background: #{{white 2 color light}}; width:84px; height:90px"|
[[File:Black 2 White 2 Rosa.png|100x100px]]
| style="border: 0px solid #{{y color dark}}; background: #{{y color light}}; width:84px; height:90px"|
[[File:XY Serena.png|100x100px]]
|- style="font-size: 90%"
|
| style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color2|000|Leaf (game)|Leaf}}
|
| style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color2|000|Kris (game)|Kris}}
| style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color2|000|Lyra (game)|Lyra}}
| style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color2|000|May (game)|May}}
| style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color2|000|Dawn (game)|Dawn}}
| style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color2|000|Hilda (game)|Hilda}}
| style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color2|000|Rosa (game)|Rosa}}
| style="background:#D1D1E6; {{roundybr|15px}}" | {{color2|000|Serena (game)|Serena}}
|}
[[User:Tester|Tester]] ([[User talk:Tester|talk]]) 12:19, 25 December 2014 (UTC)

== Side Series/Spin Off ==

Why the distinction? I know there's a lot people that wrongly consider Colosseum and XD to be part of the main series, but I see no reason for there to be a distinction between these and the other spinoffs. They do have gameplay closer to that in the main series, but they're hardly the only spinoffs to allow trading to the main games. Seems like a completely arbitrary section. [[User:Five|Five]] ([[User talk:Five|talk]]) 12:02, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

== Pages for Mystery Dungeon player characters? ==

Could we please have some? And for the partners as well? If there are articles for the player characters of [[Pokémon Conquest]], I don't see why there can't be any for the ones of Mystery Dungeon [[User:N. Harmonik|N. Harmonik]] ([[User talk:N. Harmonik|talk]]) 03:47, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

== Sun and Moon Player characters ==

The last E3 Suggested that the names of the male and female chacters is Elio and Selene. {{unsigned|Robin Maximo}}
:We won't include information until it's 100% confirmed. It's still not yet clear whether these names are the official ones or are just being used in promotional materials. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 17:01, 15 June 2016 (UTC)

I thought that we could use like temporarie names like Scottie in Sawyer´s name, but ok then-- Posted By Robin Maximo[[User:Robin Maximo|Robin Maximo]] ([[User talk:Robin Maximo|talk]]) 20:01, 15 June 2016 (UTC)

== Orlando ==

Can we add Orlando from the ORAS Special Demo Version? Surely Orlando should at least be mentioned on this page, especially as his Japanese name is Omega. [[User:Kidburla|Kidburla]] ([[User talk:Kidburla|talk]]) 16:05, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

== Question ==

I only have a question rather than a suggestion, if this is not the place to do this let me know the right place please, how do you guys discover the names of the player characters, where is released?--[[User:Robin Maximo|Robin Maximo]] ([[User talk:Robin Maximo|talk]]) 17:31, 24 October 2016 (UTC)

:It varies. In some of the older games, the official names were often available as a default if you didn't enter a name, or were used in the game's data to label the characters' sprites and other information. In recent games the characters often go by those names when they are not chosen by the player and appear instead as an NPC, such as with Hilbert, Hilda, Nate, and Rosa (in the Battle Subway) or Calem, Serena, Lucas, Dawn, Brendan, May, Ethan, and Lyra (as rivals/friends of the player). —[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] [[User talk:AndyPKMN|(talk)]] 16:18, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

== What? ==

Can someone please fix the page, someone has screwed it up and I don't know what text to put where in order to fix it. EDIT: It's now been fixed, thanks for whoever did it :) {{unsigned|Sun & Moon}}

== Sun and Moon's Names ==

Are Sun and Moon really the official names? I read somewhere that the opposite player doesn't show up as an NPC, and we don't have either one in the anime so we can't go off of that, and the Dex Holders in Pokémon Adventures are always named after the games, so that's not good either... I think we should discuss it a bit before we decide their names.

[[User:BlackButterfree|BlackButterfree]] ([[User talk:BlackButterfree|talk]]) 06:03, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

:I don't know if they even HAVE official names. But people will surely be looking for information about the player characters of the new games and their role in the story, so in the absence of reliable official names, placeholder names might have to do. "Sun" for the male PC at least has some in-game basis (being the name of the PC in the special demo version), and "Moon" would correspond to that. Of course, discussion is still good—if anyone knows a set of names with better justification, I'm all ears. --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] [[User talk:AndyPKMN|(talk)]] 16:33, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

::I agree that generation I could not be the only one of a kind with the main characters using the names of the game versions/manga version, their names can be Sun & Moon. Especially when we don´t know how to call them.-- [[User:Robin Maximo|Robin Maximo]] ([[User talk:Robin Maximo|talk]]) 02:46, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

:::I would actually suggest Elios (Sun) and Selene (Moon) for their placeholder names, since those were their given names in pre-release materials. Red and Leaf are the only player characters to be named after their game (if Kris/Crystal doesn't count), and I don't think they'd go back to that naming pattern now 13 years after the last one. [[User:BlackButterfree|BlackButterfree]] ([[User talk:BlackButterfree|talk]]) 03:36, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

I suggested this names back then but they said it was not 100% confirmed since Calem and Serena already changed names, but they preferred the last names that was used to call then in the demo, Sun & moon, if something important like this is not yet decided editions shouldn´t be locked again ultil it is?-- [[User:Robin Maximo|Robin Maximo]] ([[User talk:Robin Maximo|talk]]) 03:46, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
::Since Calem and Serena's names were '''X'''avier and '''Y'''vonne, it's likely those were meant to be like the names of their games, X & Y but a little more subtle. Elios and Selene at the moment also sound like that as they are from greek mythology, (H)elios and Selene being the titans of the sun and moon respectively.[[User:Animaltamer7|Animaltamer7]]04:49, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

From what I've seen, Sun and Moon are the most common names for the player characters. They' names of the games have been used before for PC names, so I see no reason why that naming pattern can't be used again, and those are the names used in the manga. Since the characters don't appear in the games unless you select them, I think that's as close to official names as we're going to get. [[User:Toolen|Toolen]] ([[User talk:Toolen|talk]]) 04:57, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

So Helio and Selene are not acceptable? I think that pattern may return as well cause the pokémon franchise never(or at the eyes of somes at least changes)follows patterns, can´t see why they will always follow in this aspect, i have to disagree with the argument of the manga though since until today i(and i think most part of the fans) don´t see whi-two for example as an actual name to call, thank god we have Rosa, Sun & Moon is still acceptable too.--[[User:Robin Maximo|Robin Maximo]] ([[User talk:Robin Maximo|talk]]) 05:10, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

I never said Helio and Selene weren't acceptable. They're just isn't as much evidence for them. Sun is the name used in the demo. It is also the name used in the manga. Are these the most reliable sources? No, but they're the closest things to an official source we have. Unlike previous games, they don't appear as NPCs when we choose the opposite gender, so we can't rely on the games themselves. As for Moon, that is the name used in the manga for the female character, and Moon is the opposite of Sun, so it fits. [[User:Toolen|Toolen]] ([[User talk:Toolen|talk]]) 05:52, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
:Never go with the Adventures manga for the games' player characters' official names, they use the name of the games themselves for those characters, (with only two exceptions, but their names are quite close to their games' title, only missing a couple of letters). The female protagonist that appears with the Rotom hasn't been named yet in the manga (though likely it will be Moon), and they might pull a twist again like in the Diamond and Pearl chapter.[[User:Animaltamer7|Animaltamer7]]05:59, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
Considering the history up until this point, it's a safe bet it will be Moon. As for their reliability, I already said they are not the most reliable sources, but the names in the Manga and the Demo are the closest things we have to an official name. [[User:Toolen|Toolen]] ([[User talk:Toolen|talk]]) 06:23, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

It seems like the problem of Firered & Leafgreen, how do you guys determined Leaf´s name? And i´m sorry for losing the tracks but what twist did we had in DP? I´d like to know a little more about it(principally because i started to play in this generation), it may help us resolve the problem, to get it even worse it doesn´t sound like the female character at least will appear in the anime just like Leaf, Yellow and Hilda(and Rosa but at least she appearred in the trailer).-- [[User:Robin Maximo|Robin Maximo]] ([[User talk:Robin Maximo|talk]]) 07:20, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
:The twist in DP is that they left Platinum nameless, referred only as Lady, during their trip up until the point when the Platinum game version was announced. Which by that point they official gave her that name.[[User:Animaltamer7|Animaltamer7]]08:24, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

Despite being obvious i didn´t realize that was happening that time, it´s impressive, but i don´t think it will be a twist like that one this time, i think the only reason they did this is because DP manga would lack a female main character.-- [[User:Robin Maximo|Robin Maximo]] ([[User talk:Robin Maximo|talk]]) 20:03, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

It looks like we're going to have to do what we did with Kris and Leaf: use the most commonly used name amongst fans and/or the placeholder names on the games's ROM. I'm pretty sure that the placeholder names are Sun for the boy and Moon for the girl, which are also the most common names I've found when searching the web. Should I go ahead and add those to the article, or do we need to wait a little longer? [[User:Toolen|Toolen]] ([[User talk:Toolen|talk]]) 06:49, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
:Wait until a {{bp|staff}} member makes an executive decision, please. It's not good for non-staff to jump the gun on things that affect page titles, because those in turn require a lot of creating or updating links on various pages. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 06:57, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

I figured as much. It looks like this issue will remain unresolved for the foreseeable future. [[User:Toolen|Toolen]] ([[User talk:Toolen|talk]]) 07:27, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

In fact, the most common names is ヨウ and ミヅキ in Pixiv. If you search for サン and ムーン in Pixiv, you will not be able to find any pictures lol (I guess this is because the new story in Pokemon Special is not yet clear)

And the search for ヨウ and ミヅキ in Google will also find plenty of pictures.

I think this is different from Calem and Serena's case, since the Japanese version is called X/Y and the US version is called Xavier/Yvonne.

And Moon's name has not yet been mentioned in Pokemon Special just because she has not yet introduced herself. This does not mean anything. [[User:E9310103838|E9310103838]] ([[User talk:E9310103838|talk]]) 16:10, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

Why don't we call Sun/Moon's player characters Kai (boy) and Lana (girl)? That's apparently what unused data inside the game calls them, according to their pages. Interestingly enough, that would be the first time two major characters shared the same name (Lana the Trial Captain and Lana the Player Character), both of which were introduced in the same game. [[User:BlackButterfree|BlackButterfree]] ([[User talk:BlackButterfree|talk]]) 06:53, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

:Two pages cannot share the same title. It'd also be far more confusing to say "{{ga|Sun|Kai}}/{{ga|Moon|Lana}} can battle [[Lana]] at [[Brooklet Hill]]." The issue is that the female player character was given the name Lana in Japanese, and in Japanese, Lana's name is Suiren. --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 11:26, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

:: Technically, they wouldn't have the same title. One page would be titled Lana (Trial Captain) and the other Lana (Player Character), like how some characters have their (Anime), (Adventures) and (Game) pages. But I see your point on how it'd be confusing in summaries... I guess Sun and Moon are fine, but it's so weird having player characters named after their games... We've only had Red, Kris(tal) and Leaf(green) before Sun and Moon. [[User:BlackButterfree|BlackButterfree]] ([[User talk:BlackButterfree|talk]]) 12:58, 14 December 2016 (UTC)

:Since use Kai and Lana that could not search for anything relevant at all... [[User:E9310103838|E9310103838]] ([[User talk:E9310103838|talk]]) 14:05, 14 December 2016 (UTC)

::: "{{ga|Sun|Kai}}/{{ga|Moon|Lana}} can battle [[Trial Captain|Captain]] [[Lana]] at [[Brooklet Hill]]." I'm not sure about 'Sun' and 'Moon' anymore... using unofficial names for characters who ''do'' have names from internal game data, even if one of them is shared with another character, I don't think that's very encyclopedic. People share names, even in Pokémon. While I get the confusion point, I don't think there would be a big problem in this case – most instances would refer to Captain anyway, as the alternate player character doesn't exist as an NPC this generation and, most times, when we're referring to the player character, we just say "the player". - [[User:Taylor|Taylor]] ([[User talk:Taylor|talk]]) 01:28, 15 December 2016 (UTC)

::::The names Sun and Moon are not "unofficial"; the names were used officially throughout the pre-release period.
::::[http://imgur.com/POOZDb8 http://i.imgur.com/Yxcj4PN.png]
::::The {{bp|manual of style}} also states that titles should use the "English names of characters", and while Sun and Moon have been officially used in English, カイ and ラナ have not. --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 02:35, 15 December 2016 (UTC)

::::This is just the same case with the player use Omega/Orlando as his name in Demo Version. [[User:E9310103838|E9310103838]] ([[User talk:E9310103838|talk]]) 14:33, 15 December 2016 (UTC)

:::::While pre-release promotional material shouldn't take precedence over in-game data and, as the last user mentioned, demos are unreliable, you do have a good point about English usage. (I was curious, even; does the unused data definitely include only Japanese names or were other languages simply not found as of yet?) - [[User:Taylor|Taylor]] ([[User talk:Taylor|talk]]) 09:12, 17 December 2016 (UTC)

::::::Where the Japanese text contains the two names, the English text has blanks in those spots. --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 13:57, 17 December 2016 (UTC)

I know we don't just go with what the Japanese fans use, but they seem to accept Yō and Mizuki (the Japanese equivalents of Elio and Selene) as the official names, as I believe has been mentioned here. But these are just names used in trailers, aren't they? [[User:Ratcicle Fan|Ratcicle Fan]] ([[User talk:Ratcicle Fan|talk]]) 14:54, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

Aren't the names Elio and Selene as close to official as Sun and Moon? I really don't see why we go with Sun and Moon when the games abandoned the gimmick of naming protagonists after versions ages ago. - [[User:Ericss|Ericss]] ([[User talk:Ericss|talk]]) 17:53, 1 January 2017 (UTC)

== Black and White, Black 2 and White 2 ==

So in the newest Pokemon Genrations Hilbert is seen with Zekrom meaning he is the hero of White. Yes I know the protagonists that appear in the show are supposed to represent the average player but so do the playable characters. So is he? That means that Hilda and Rosa are the heroes of Black and Black 2 and Hilbert and Nate are the heroes of White and White 2. Or is it opposite genders? Hilda and Nate, Hilbert and Rosa? {{unsigned|Sun & Moon}}

:...It's both of them. Generations doesn't line up completely with the games' canon. [[User:TechSkylander1518|TechSkylander1518]] ([[User talk:TechSkylander1518|talk]]) 05:20, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

== Suggesting A New Table ==

Two years ago, another member (Tester) suggested above that we list the player characters like this. I updated the table with Sun and Moon, and would like to suggest it as well. I think it looks better than the current set-up.

{| style="margin:auto; text-align:center; {{roundy|20px}} border: 4px solid #BABACC; background:#F3F3FF"
|- style="font-size: 95%; font-weight: bold"
| style="background:#D1D1E6; {{roundytl|15px}}" | {{color2|{{red color dark}}|Pokémon Red and Blue Versions|R}}{{color2|{{green color dark}}|Pokémon Red and Green Versions|G}}{{color2|{{blue color dark}}|Pokémon Blue Version (Japanese)|B}}{{color2|{{yellow color dark}}|Pokémon Yellow Version|Y}}
| style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color2|{{firered color dark}}|Pokémon FireRed and LeafGreen Versions|FR}}{{color2|{{leafgreen color dark}}|Pokémon FireRed and LeafGreen Versions|LG}}
| style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color2|{{gold color dark}}|Pokémon Gold and Silver Versions|G}}{{color2|{{silver color dark}}|Pokémon Gold and Silver Versions|S}}
| style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color2|{{crystal color dark}}|Pokémon Crystal Version|C}}
| style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color2|{{heartgold color dark}}|Pokémon HeartGold and SoulSilver Versions|HG}}{{color2|{{soulsilver color dark}}|Pokémon HeartGold and SoulSilver Versions|SS}}
| style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color2|{{ruby color dark}}|Pokémon Ruby and Sapphire Versions|R}}{{color2|{{sapphire color dark}}|Pokémon Ruby and Sapphire Versions|S}}{{color2|{{emerald color dark}}|Pokémon Emerald Version|E}}{{color2|{{Omega Ruby color dark}}|Pokémon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire|OR}}{{color2|{{Alpha Sapphire color dark}}|Pokémon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire|AS}}
| style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color2|{{diamond color dark}}|Pokémon Diamond and Pearl Versions|D}}{{color2|{{pearl color dark}}|Pokémon Diamond and Pearl Versions|P}}{{color2|{{platinum color dark}}|Pokémon Platinum Version|Pt}}
| style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color2|{{black color dark}}|Pokémon Black and White Versions|B}}{{color2|{{white color dark}}|Pokémon Black and White Versions|W}}
| style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color2|{{black 2 color dark}}|Pokémon Black and White Versions 2|B2}}{{color2|{{white 2 color dark}}|Pokémon Black and White Versions 2|W2}}
| style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color2|{{X color dark}}|Pokémon X and Y|X}}{{color2|{{Y color dark}}|Pokémon X and Y|Y}}
| style="background:#D1D1E6; {{roundytr|15px}}" | {{color2|{{Sun color dark}}|Pokémon Sun and Moon|S}}{{color2|{{Moon color dark}}|Pokémon Sun and Moon|M}}

|-

| colspan="2" style="border: 0px solid #{{red color dark}}; background: #{{red color light}}; width:84px; height:90px"|
[[File:FireRed LeafGreen Red.png|100x100px]]
| colspan="3" style="border: 0px solid #{{gold color dark}}; background: #{{gold color light}}; width:84px; height:90px"|
[[File:HeartGold SoulSilver Ethan.png|100x100px]]
| style="border: 0px solid #{{ruby color dark}}; background: #{{ruby color light}}; width:84px; height:90px"|
[[File:Omega Ruby Alpha Sapphire Brendan.png|100x100px]]
| style="border: 0px solid #{{diamond color dark}}; background: #{{diamond color light}}; width:84px; height:90px"|
[[File:Platinum Lucas.png|100x100px]]
| style="border: 0px solid #{{black color dark}}; background: #{{black color light}}; width:84px; height:90px"|
[[File:Black White Hilbert.png|100x100px]]
| style="border: 0px solid #{{black 2 color dark}}; background: #{{black 2 color light}}; width:84px; height:90px"|
[[File:Black 2 White 2 Nate.png|100x100px]]
| style="border: 0px solid #{{x color dark}}; background: #{{x color light}}; width:84px; height:90px"|
[[File:XY Calem.png|100x100px]]
| style="border: 0px solid #{{sun color dark}}; background: #{{sun color light}}; width:84px; height:90px"|
[[File:Sun Moon Protagonist male.png|100x100px]]

|- style="font-size: 90%"
| colspan="2" style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color2|000|Red (game)|Red}}
| colspan="3" style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color2|000|Ethan (game)|Ethan}}
| style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color2|000|Brendan (game)|Brendan}}
| style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color2|000|Lucas (game)|Lucas}}
| style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color2|000|Hilbert (game)|Hilbert}}
| style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color2|000|Nate (game)|Nate}}
| style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color2|000|Calem (game)|Calem}}
| style="background:#D1D1E6; {{roundybr|15px}}" | {{color2|000|Sun (game)|Sun}}

|-
|
| style="border: 0px solid #{{leafgreen color dark}}; background: #{{leafgreen color light}}; width:84px; height:90px"|
[[File:FireRed LeafGreen Leaf.png|100x100px]]
|
| style="border: 0px solid #{{crystal color dark}}; background: #{{crystal color light}}; width:84px; height:90px"|
[[File:Crystal Kris.png|100x100px]]
| style="border: 0px solid #{{soulsilver color dark}}; background: #{{soulsilver color light}}; width:84px; height:90px"|
[[File:HeartGold SoulSilver Lyra.png|100x100px]]
| style="border: 0px solid #{{sapphire color dark}}; background: #{{sapphire color light}}; width:84px; height:90px"|
[[File:Omega Ruby Alpha Sapphire May.png|100x100px]]
| style="border: 0px solid #{{pearl color dark}}; background: #{{pearl color light}}; width:84px; height:90px"|
[[File:Platinum Dawn.png|100x100px]]
| style="border: 0px solid #{{white color dark}}; background: #{{white color light}}; width:84px; height:90px"|
[[File:Black White Hilda.png|100x100px]]
| style="border: 0px solid #{{white 2 color dark}}; background: #{{white 2 color light}}; width:84px; height:90px"|
[[File:Black 2 White 2 Rosa.png|100x100px]]
| style="border: 0px solid #{{y color dark}}; background: #{{y color light}}; width:84px; height:90px"|
[[File:XY Serena.png|100x100px]]
| style="border: 0px solid #{{moon color dark}}; background: #{{moon color light}}; width:84px; height:90px"|
[[File:Sun Moon Protagonist female.png|100x100px]]
|- style="font-size: 90%"

|
| style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color2|000|Leaf (game)|Leaf}}
|
| style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color2|000|Kris (game)|Kris}}
| style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color2|000|Lyra (game)|Lyra}}
| style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color2|000|May (game)|May}}
| style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color2|000|Dawn (game)|Dawn}}
| style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color2|000|Hilda (game)|Hilda}}
| style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color2|000|Rosa (game)|Rosa}}
| style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color2|000|Serena (game)|Serena}}
| style="background:#D1D1E6; {{roundybr|15px}}" | {{color2|000|Moon (game)|Moon}}
|}

[[User:BlackButterfree|BlackButterfree]] ([[User talk:BlackButterfree|talk]]) 20:21, 25 December 2016 (UTC)
:The spaces by Leaf/Kris are pretty odd. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 21:51, 25 December 2016 (UTC)
::It's to show that those characters were absent in the games inside the space. It's a bit disorienting at first glance, but once you realize what they mean, they make perfect sense. [[User:BlackButterfree|BlackButterfree]] ([[User talk:BlackButterfree|talk]]) 02:44, 26 December 2016 (UTC)
:::Don't get me wrong, I fully understand it. I just don't think the one thing makes up for the other. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 02:59, 26 December 2016 (UTC)
::::Even if there's a point to the gap, it's still ''very'' distracting and will no doubt cause further confusion.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 04:00, 26 December 2016 (UTC)
:::::so you do this:

{| style="margin:auto; text-align:center; {{roundy|20px}} border: 4px solid #BABACC; background:#F3F3FF"
|- style="font-size: 95%; font-weight: bold"
| style="background:#D1D1E6; {{roundytl|15px}}" | {{color2|{{red color dark}}|Pokémon Red and Blue Versions|R}}{{color2|{{green color dark}}|Pokémon Red and Green Versions|G}}{{color2|{{blue color dark}}|Pokémon Blue Version (Japanese)|B}}{{color2|{{yellow color dark}}|Pokémon Yellow Version|Y}}
| style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color2|{{firered color dark}}|Pokémon FireRed and LeafGreen Versions|FR}}{{color2|{{leafgreen color dark}}|Pokémon FireRed and LeafGreen Versions|LG}}
| style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color2|{{gold color dark}}|Pokémon Gold and Silver Versions|G}}{{color2|{{silver color dark}}|Pokémon Gold and Silver Versions|S}}
| style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color2|{{crystal color dark}}|Pokémon Crystal Version|C}}
| style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color2|{{heartgold color dark}}|Pokémon HeartGold and SoulSilver Versions|HG}}{{color2|{{soulsilver color dark}}|Pokémon HeartGold and SoulSilver Versions|SS}}
| style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color2|{{ruby color dark}}|Pokémon Ruby and Sapphire Versions|R}}{{color2|{{sapphire color dark}}|Pokémon Ruby and Sapphire Versions|S}}{{color2|{{emerald color dark}}|Pokémon Emerald Version|E}}{{color2|{{Omega Ruby color dark}}|Pokémon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire|OR}}{{color2|{{Alpha Sapphire color dark}}|Pokémon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire|AS}}
| style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color2|{{diamond color dark}}|Pokémon Diamond and Pearl Versions|D}}{{color2|{{pearl color dark}}|Pokémon Diamond and Pearl Versions|P}}{{color2|{{platinum color dark}}|Pokémon Platinum Version|Pt}}
| style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color2|{{black color dark}}|Pokémon Black and White Versions|B}}{{color2|{{white color dark}}|Pokémon Black and White Versions|W}}
| style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color2|{{black 2 color dark}}|Pokémon Black and White Versions 2|B2}}{{color2|{{white 2 color dark}}|Pokémon Black and White Versions 2|W2}}
| style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color2|{{X color dark}}|Pokémon X and Y|X}}{{color2|{{Y color dark}}|Pokémon X and Y|Y}}
| style="background:#D1D1E6; {{roundytr|15px}}" | {{color2|{{Sun color dark}}|Pokémon Sun and Moon|S}}{{color2|{{Moon color dark}}|Pokémon Sun and Moon|M}}

|-

| colspan="2" style="border: 0px solid #{{red color dark}}; background: #{{red color light}}; width:84px; height:90px"|
[[File:FireRed LeafGreen Red.png|100x100px]]
| colspan="3" style="border: 0px solid #{{gold color dark}}; background: #{{gold color light}}; width:84px; height:90px"|
[[File:HeartGold SoulSilver Ethan.png|100x100px]]
| style="border: 0px solid #{{ruby color dark}}; background: #{{ruby color light}}; width:84px; height:90px"|
[[File:Omega Ruby Alpha Sapphire Brendan.png|100x100px]]
| style="border: 0px solid #{{diamond color dark}}; background: #{{diamond color light}}; width:84px; height:90px"|
[[File:Platinum Lucas.png|100x100px]]
| style="border: 0px solid #{{black color dark}}; background: #{{black color light}}; width:84px; height:90px"|
[[File:Black White Hilbert.png|100x100px]]
| style="border: 0px solid #{{black 2 color dark}}; background: #{{black 2 color light}}; width:84px; height:90px"|
[[File:Black 2 White 2 Nate.png|100x100px]]
| style="border: 0px solid #{{x color dark}}; background: #{{x color light}}; width:84px; height:90px"|
[[File:XY Calem.png|100x100px]]
| style="border: 0px solid #{{sun color dark}}; background: #{{sun color light}}; width:84px; height:90px"|
[[File:Sun Moon Protagonist male.png|100x100px]]

|- style="font-size: 90%"
| colspan="2" style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color2|000|Red (game)|Red}}
| colspan="3" style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color2|000|Ethan (game)|Ethan}}
| style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color2|000|Brendan (game)|Brendan}}
| style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color2|000|Lucas (game)|Lucas}}
| style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color2|000|Hilbert (game)|Hilbert}}
| style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color2|000|Nate (game)|Nate}}
| style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color2|000|Calem (game)|Calem}}
| style="background:#D1D1E6; " | {{color2|000|Sun (game)|Sun}}

|-
| style="border: 0px solider #{{leafgreen color dark}}; background: #{{leafgreen color dark}}; width:84px; height:90px"|
| style="border: 0px solid #{{leafgreen color dark}}; background: #{{leafgreen color light}}; width:84px; height:90px"|
[[File:FireRed LeafGreen Leaf.png|100x100px]]
| style="border: 0px solid #{{crystal color dark}}; background: #{{crystal color dark}}; width:84px; height:90px"|
| style="border: 0px solid #{{crystal color dark}}; background: #{{crystal color light}}; width:84px; height:90px"|
[[File:Crystal Kris.png|100x100px]]
| style="border: 0px solid #{{soulsilver color dark}}; background: #{{soulsilver color light}}; width:84px; height:90px"|
[[File:HeartGold SoulSilver Lyra.png|100x100px]]
| style="border: 0px solid #{{sapphire color dark}}; background: #{{sapphire color light}}; width:84px; height:90px"|
[[File:Omega Ruby Alpha Sapphire May.png|100x100px]]
| style="border: 0px solid #{{pearl color dark}}; background: #{{pearl color light}}; width:84px; height:90px"|
[[File:Platinum Dawn.png|100x100px]]
| style="border: 0px solid #{{white color dark}}; background: #{{white color light}}; width:84px; height:90px"|
[[File:Black White Hilda.png|100x100px]]
| style="border: 0px solid #{{white 2 color dark}}; background: #{{white 2 color light}}; width:84px; height:90px"|
[[File:Black 2 White 2 Rosa.png|100x100px]]
| style="border: 0px solid #{{y color dark}}; background: #{{y color light}}; width:84px; height:90px"|
[[File:XY Serena.png|100x100px]]
| style="border: 0px solid #{{moon color dark}}; background: #{{moon color light}}; width:84px; height:90px"|
[[File:Sun Moon Protagonist female.png|100x100px]]
|- style="font-size: 90%"

| style="background:#D1D1E6; {{roundybl|15px}}" | {{color|000|None}}
| style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color2|000|Leaf (game)|Leaf}}
| style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color|000|None}}
| style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color2|000|Kris (game)|Kris}}
| style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color2|000|Lyra (game)|Lyra}}
| style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color2|000|May (game)|May}}
| style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color2|000|Dawn (game)|Dawn}}
| style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color2|000|Hilda (game)|Hilda}}
| style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color2|000|Rosa (game)|Rosa}}
| style="background:#D1D1E6;" | {{color2|000|Serena (game)|Serena}}
| style="background:#D1D1E6; {{roundybr|15px}}" | {{color2|000|Moon (game)|Moon}}
|}
:::::The colors are a bit off, but it's still a good example. I think that looks better. [[User:Nutter Butter|Nutter Butter]] ([[User talk:Nutter Butter|talk]]) 04:13, 26 December 2016 (UTC)
::::::That looka more appealing than the proposed one above this.[[User:Animaltamer7|Animaltamer7]]05:10, 26 December 2016 (UTC)
:::::::While I don't think this table looks bad or anything...I think the current set-up of splitting Male and Female looks a lot nicer and easier to understand. --[[User:HoennMaster|Hoenn]][[User talk:HoennMaster|Master]] 05:42, 26 December 2016 (UTC)

Machoke (Pokémon)

2016-09-11T05:22:32Z

Ericss: It says that that it RESEMBLES skin stretched apart, not that IT IS. It also says that its black markings resemble briefs and its belt resembles a Championship belt, even thought they're not that.

{{PokémonPrevNext/Head|type=Fighting}}
{{PokémonPrevNext/GO|species=Machoke}}
{{PokémonPrevNext/Pokémon|type=Fighting|prevnum=066|prev=Machop|nextnum=068|next=Machamp|round=none}}
{{PokémonPrevNext/Disambig|species=Machoke}}
|}
{{Pokémon Infobox
|name=Machoke
|jname=ゴーリキー
|jtranslit=Gōrikī
|tmname=Goriky
|ndex=067
|oldjdex=141
|jdex=143
|hdex=074
|hdex6=076
|fbrow=081
|sdex=041
|karea=Coastal
|kdex=058
|abrow=162
|typebox=1
|type1=Fighting
|category=Superpower
|height-ftin=4'11"
|height-m=1.5
|weight-lbs=155.4
|weight-kg=70.5
|abilityn=d
|ability1=Guts
|ability2=No Guard
|abilityd=Steadfast
|egggroupn=1
|egggroup1=Human-Like
|eggcycles=21
|evtotal=2
|evat=2
|expyield=142
|oldexp=146
|lv100exp=1,059,860
|gendercode=63
|color=Gray
|catchrate=90
|body=12
|pokefordex=machoke
|generation=1
|friendship=70
}}
'''Machoke''' ([[List of Japanese Pokémon names|Japanese]]: '''ゴーリキー''' ''Goriky'') is a {{type|Fighting}} Pokémon.

It [[Evolution|evolves]] from {{p|Machop}} starting at [[level]] 28 and evolves into {{p|Machamp}} when [[trade]]d.

==Biology==
Machoke is a bipedal, humanoid Pokémon covered in gray skin. It has a vaguely reptilian face with a short snout, narrow red eyes, and four pointed teeth visible inside its mouth. Two of these teeth are in the upper jaw, while two are in the lower jaw. On top of its head are three, light brown ridges. Its arms are muscular with dark red, vertical stripes on them, resembling places where the skin has stretched apart because it can barely contain its huge muscles. It possesses large pectoral muscles that protrude slightly over its belt. The lower part of its body has black markings that resemble briefs. It is always seen wearing a black and golden power-save belt resembling a Championship belt that regulates Machoke's strength.

Machoke is a Pokémon of immense strength. Its muscles are as hard as steel, and it is capable of lifting extremely heavy objects with only one finger. In spite of this, it is modest and often helps people with manual labor. It can be found in the {{DL|List of Pokémon by habitat|Mountain Pokémon|mountains}}, where it trains daily.

==In the anime==
[[File:Korrina Machoke.png|250px|left|thumb|Machoke in the anime]]
===Major appearances===
Two Machoke were present on the expedition crew in ''[[EP089|Shell Shock!]]''. They rescued {{Ash}}, {{an|Misty}}, {{Tracey}} and the crew from a runaway boulder heading for them.

In ''[[EP136|Chikorita's Big Upset]]'', one was part of a group of {{type|Fighting}} Pokémon that roamed the streets of the city as a gang.

In ''[[EP200|Turning Over A New Bayleef]]'', one owned by [[Haruno]] helped her with her gardening.

[[Chuck]] used a Machoke for the Gym Battle in ''[[EP209|Machoke, Machoke Man]]''. Chuck's Machoke was defeated by [[Ash's Bayleef]].

A Machoke appeared with a Machop in ''[[EP265|Pop Goes The Sneasel]]''. These Pokémon were protecting the flame of {{p|Ho-Oh}} both with a {{p|Sneasel}}.

A Machoke was used by the {{OBP|captain|EP274}} in ''[[EP274|Hoenn Alone!]]''.

Emily had a {{p|Machop}}, Machoke, and {{p|Machamp}} chase after her runaway {{p|Psyduck}} in ''[[AG140|Sitting Psyduck]]''.

Several Machoke and Machamp appeared in ''[[DP057|Bibarel Gnaws Best!]]'' as construction workers.

[[Maylene]] also owns a Machoke which appeared in ''[[DP066|Lost Leader Strategy!]]''.

{{si|Kenny}} used a Machoke in the [[Appeal|Performance Stage]] of the {{to|Sandalstraw}} {{pkmn|Contest}} in ''[[DP123|Old Rivals, New Tricks!]]''.

A Machoke appeared in ''[[XY044|Showdown at the Shalour Gym!]]'' under the ownership of [[Korrina]].

===Minor appearances===
Machoke has had many appearances, many more than its evolved and pre-evolved forms. It can usually be seen in {{wp|Dojo}}s and on construction sites.

Machoke made its debut in ''[[EP029|The Punchy Pokémon]]'' where it fought against [[Ash's Primeape]].

A Machoke appeared in a flashback in ''[[EP037|Ditto's Mysterious Mansion]]''.

In ''[[EP042|Showdown at Dark City]]'', Machoke is one of the Pokémon owned by one of the {{pkmn|Trainer}}s at [[Yas Gym]].

Machoke also appeared in ''[[EP043|The March of the Exeggutor Squad]]''.

A Machoke appeared in ''[[EP052|Princess vs. Princess]]'' competing in the {{DL|Princess Festival|Queen of the Princess Festival contest}}.

A Machoke was seen in a Pokémon Lab in ''[[EP58|Riddle Me This]]''.

A Machoke under the ownership of [[Stella]] appeared in ''[[EP064|It's Mr. Mime Time]]''.

In ''[[EP090|Stage Fight!]]'', a Machoke was part of a showboat stage show along with other Pokémon.

[[Danny]] owned a Machoke in ''[[EP093|Navel Maneuvers]]'', which helped him carve a sled in order to compete with it. It reappeared in a flashback in ''[[EP111|Hello, Pummelo!]]''.

Machoke also appeared in the second [[original series]] {{pkmn|movie}}, ''[[M02|The Power of One]]''.

A Machoke was seen in a dojo in ''[[EP140|Wired for Battle!]]''.

A Machoke was one of the Pokémon seen at the [[Pokémon Swap Meet]] in ''[[EP146|Tricks of the Trade]]''.

[[Trixie]] has a Machoke which is used in a circus in ''[[EP153|Love, Totodile Style]]''.

[[Dr. Anna]] owns a Machoke which she uses in her health clinic for massages in ''[[EP165|Hassle in the Castle]]''.

{{OBP|Kenzo|EP166}} owned a Machoke in ''[[EP166|Two Hits and a Miss]]''.

A Machoke appeared in ''[[EP169|Beauty and the Breeder]]'' where it participated in {{pkmn|Beauty Contest|a Pokémon breeding competition}}.

A Machoke appeared in ''[[EP170|A Better Pill to Swallow]]'' as a fantasized Pokémon.

''[[EP173|Wobbu-Palooza!]]'' featured a Machoke belonging to a [[Wobbuffet Festival crashers|Festival Crasher]].

A Machoke was part of a Pokémon street festival in ''[[EP201|Doin' What Comes Natu-rally]]''.

A Machoke was one of the Pokémon defeated by [[Wings Alexander]]'s then Hoothoot as seen in his flashback in ''[[EP223|Throwing in the Noctowl]]''.

A Machoke was seen training alongside its Trainer in ''[[EP262|You're a Star, Larvitar!]]''.

A Machoke made an appearance in ''[[SS003|We're No Angels!]]'' and in the opening of ''[[M07|Destiny Deoxys]]''.

A Machoke was also owned by a [[demolition crew]] (which was changed into a construction crew due to [[Ritchie]] changing the past) in ''[[SS013|Celebi and Joy!]]''.

It was revealed in ''[[DP066|Lost Leader Strategy!]]'' that [[Maylene]] had a Machoke that was used in a Gym battle against [[Paul]] and in ''[[DP068|A Triple Fighting Chance!]]'' wherein Machoke was defeated by [[Ash's Staravia]].

A Machoke appeared in ''[[DP092|A Lean Mean Team Rocket Machine!]]'' on a fitness program.

A {{pkmn|Trainer}}'s Machoke appeared in ''[[DP160|A Marathon Rivalry!]]'' participating in the [[Pokéathlon]] held in [[Camellia Town]].

===Pokédex entries===
{{Animedexheader|Sinnoh}}
{{Animedexbody|DP068|Machoke|Dawn's Pokédex|Machoke, the Superpower Pokémon. With enough strength to lift a giant truck with one hand, Machoke are often used to extremely heavy work.}}
{{Animedexfooter/Pokémon|''Diamond & Pearl''|Sinnoh}}

==In the manga==
===In the Pokémon Adventures manga===
[[File:Machoke Adventures.png|thumb|200px|Machoke in [[Pokémon Adventures]]]]
{{main|Blue's Machoke}}

Machoke debuts in its own round, ''[[PS002|Bulbasaur, Come Home!]]''. Here, it protected the [[Viridian Gym]] from intruders, attacking {{adv|Red}} and {{adv|Professor Oak}}, but [[Saur|Bulbasaur]] defeated it with a {{m|SolarBeam}}.

{{adv|Blue}} also had a Machoke that evolved into [[Blue's Machamp|Machamp]] under Red's care, but was traded back afterwards in ''[[PS018|A Tale of Ninetales]]''.

Machoke was seen again in {{PAV|18}} as one of [[Brawly]]'s Pokémon; it is unconfirmed if this Machoke evolved from the Machop he had in {{PAV|16}}. Machoke attempted to fight [[Blaise]]'s fiery illusions in {{PAV|20}} at the [[Lilycove Museum]], but failed miserably and ended up getting burned. His {{p|Hariyama}} succeeded in doing so, however.

Three Machoke were helping X's family move into their new home in [[Vaniville Town]] in the {{chap|X & Y}}.

===In the Pokémon Pocket Monsters manga===
{{OBP|Red|Pocket Monsters}} owns a Machamp which he caught after it evolved from Machoke in ''[[PM008|Catch That Pokémon Thief!!]]''.

{{OBP|Giovanni|Pocket Monsters}}'s Machoke was used in the Gym battle against Red in ''[[PM031|Get The Last Badge!!]]''.

===In the Pokémon Diamond and Pearl Adventure! manga===
A {{tc|Galactic Grunt}} uses a Machoke in ''[[DPA05|Find Munchlax!!]]''.

[[Maylene]] has a Machoke which was only seen getting defeated by [[Hareta's Piplup]].

==In the TCG==
{{main|Machoke (TCG)}}

==Game data==
===Pokédex entries===
{{Dex/Header|type=fighting}}
{{Dex/Gen|gen=I}}
{{Dex/Entry2|v=Red|v2=Blue|t2=FFF|entry=Its muscular body is so powerful, it must wear a power save belt to be able to regulate its motions.}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=Yellow|entry=The belt around its waist holds back its energy. Without it, this Pokémon would be unstoppable.}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=Stadium|t=FFF|color=000|entry=Although it is incredibly strong, it is always modest. It restrains its strength with a power-save belt.}}
|}
|}
{{Dex/Gen|gen=II}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=Gold|entry=It always goes at its full power, but this very tough and durable Pokémon never gets tired.}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=Silver|entry=The muscles covering its body teem with power. Even when still, it exudes an amazing sense of strength.}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=Crystal|entry=This tough Pokémon always stays in the zone. Its muscles become thicker after every battle.}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=Stadium 2|t=FFF|color=000|entry=It always goes at its full power, but this very tough and durable Pokémon never gets tired.}}
|}
|}
{{Dex/Gen|gen=III}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=Ruby|t=FFF|entry=Machoke's thoroughly toned muscles possess the hardness of {{wp|steel}}. This Pokémon has so much strength, it can easily hold aloft a sumo wrestler on just one finger.}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=Sapphire|t=FFF|entry=Machoke undertakes bodybuilding every day even as it helps people with tough, physically demanding labor. On its days off, this Pokémon heads to the fields and mountains to exercise and train.}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=Emerald|t=FFF|entry=A belt is worn by a Machoke to keep its overwhelming power under control. Because it is so dangerous, no one has ever removed the belt.}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=FireRed|entry=Its formidable body never gets tired. It helps people by doing work such as the moving of heavy goods.}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=LeafGreen|entry=Its muscular body is so powerful, it must wear a power-save belt to be able to regulate its motions.}}
|}
|}
{{Dex/Gen|gen=IV}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=Diamond|entry=Machoke's boundless power is very dangerous, so it wears a belt that suppresses its energy.}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=Pearl|entry=It can lift a dump truck with one hand. Using that power, it helps people with heavy jobs.}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=Platinum|entry=It happily carries heavy cargo to toughen up. It willingly does hard work for people.}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=HeartGold|entry=It always goes at its full power, but this very tough and durable Pokémon never gets tired.}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=SoulSilver|entry=The muscles covering its body teem with power. Even when still, it exudes an amazing sense of strength.}}
|}
|}
{{Dex/Gen|gen=V}}
{{Dex/Entry2|v=Black|v2=White|t=FFF|entry=It happily carries heavy cargo to toughen up. It willingly does hard work for people.}}
{{Dex/Entry2|v=Black 2|v2=White 2|t=FFF|entry=It happily carries heavy cargo to toughen up. It willingly does hard work for people.}}
|}
|}
{{Dex/Gen|gen=VI}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=X|t=FFF|entry=Its muscular body is so powerful, it must wear a power-save belt to be able to regulate its motions.}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=Y|entry=It can lift a dump truck with one hand. Using that power, it helps people with heavy jobs.}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=Omega Ruby|t=FFF|entry=Machoke's thoroughly toned muscles possess the hardness of {{wp|steel}}. This Pokémon has so much strength, it can easily hold aloft a sumo wrestler on just one finger.}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=Alpha Sapphire|t=FFF|entry=Machoke undertakes bodybuilding every day even as it helps people with tough, physically demanding labor. On its days off, this Pokémon heads to the fields and mountains to exercise and train.}}
|}
|}
{{Dex/Footer}}

===Game locations===
{{Availability/Header|type=fighting}}
{{Availability/Gen|gen=I}}
{{Availability/Entry2|v=Red|v2=Blue|t2=fff|area={{ka|Victory Road}}}}
{{Availability/Entry1|v=Blue|ex=(Japan)|t=fff|link=Pokémon Blue Version (Japanese)|area={{ka|Victory Road}}}}
{{Availability/Entry1|v=Yellow|area={{ka|Victory Road}} [[In-game trade#Yellow|Trade]] {{p|Cubone}} on {{rt|5|Kanto}}{{tt|*|immediately evolves into Machamp, but Pokédex data is entered}}}}
|}
|}
{{Availability/Gen|gen=II}}
{{Availability/Entry2|v=Gold|v2=Silver|area=[[Rock Tunnel]], [[Mt. Mortar]]}}
{{Availability/Entry1|v=Crystal|area=[[Mt. Mortar]], [[Mt. Silver]], [[Rock Tunnel]]}}
|}
|}
{{Availability/Gen|gen=III}}
{{Availability/Entry2|v=Ruby|v2=Sapphire|t=fff|t2=fff|area=[[Evolution|Evolve]] {{p|Machop}}}}
{{Availability/Entry1|v=Emerald|t=fff|area=[[Evolution|Evolve]] {{p|Machop}}}}
{{Availability/Entry2|v=FireRed|v2=LeafGreen|area=[[Cerulean Cave]], [[Mt. Ember]], {{ka|Victory Road}}}}
{{Availability/Entry1/None|v=Colosseum}}
{{Availability/Entry1/None|v=XD|link=Pokémon XD: Gale of Darkness}}
|}
|}
{{Availability/Gen|gen=IV}}
{{Availability/Entry2|v=Diamond|v2=Pearl|area=[[Route]]s {{rtn|210|Sinnoh}}, {{rtn|211|Sinnoh}}, {{rtn|216|Sinnoh}}, {{rtn|217|Sinnoh}}, {{rtn|225|Sinnoh}}, and {{rtn|226|Sinnoh}}, [[Stark Mountain]], [[Mt. Coronet]], {{si|Victory Road}}}}
{{Availability/Entry1|v=Platinum|area=[[Route]]s {{rtn|210|Sinnoh}}, {{rtn|211|Sinnoh}}, {{rtn|225|Sinnoh}}, and {{rtn|226|Sinnoh}}, [[Mt. Coronet]]}}
{{Availability/Entry2|v=HeartGold|v2=SoulSilver|area=[[Cliff Cave]], [[Mt. Mortar]], [[Cerulean Cave]], [[Rock Tunnel]], {{safari|Johto}}}}
{{Availability/Entry1|v=Pal Park|color=D4B5A7|link=Pal Park|area={{DL|List of Pokémon by Pal Park location|Mountain}}}}
|}
|}
{{Availability/Gen|gen=V}}
{{Availability/Entry1/None|v=Black|area=[[Trade]], {{pkmn2|Event}}}}
{{Availability/Entry1|v=White|area=[[Evolution|Evolve]] {{p|Machop}}}}
{{Availability/Entry2/None|v=Black 2|v2=White 2}}
|}
|}
{{Availability/Gen|gen=VI}}
{{Availability/Entry2|v=X|v2=Y|t=fff|area=[[Friend Safari]] ([[Friend Safari#Fighting-type Safari|Fighting]])}}
{{Availability/Entry2|v=Omega Ruby|v2=Alpha Sapphire|t=fff|t2=fff|area=[[Evolution|Evolve]] {{p|Machop}}}}
|}
|}
{{Availability/Footer}}

====In side games====
{{Availability/Header|type=Fighting}}
{{Availability/Gen|gen=I}}
{{Availability/Entry1|1|v=Pinball|color={{red color}}|area=[[Evolution|Evolve]] {{p|Machop}}}}
|}
|}
{{Availability/Gen|gen=II}}
{{Availability/NA/Side|gen=II}}
|}
|}
{{Availability/Gen|gen=III}}
{{Availability/Entry1|v=Pinball: R&S|link=Pokémon Pinball: Ruby & Sapphire|color={{ruby color}}|t=FFF|area=[[Evolution|Evolve]] {{p|Machop}}}}
{{Availability/Entry1|v=Trozei!|color={{yellow color}}|area=[[Secret Storage 15]], [[Mr. Who's Den]]}}
{{Availability/Entry2|v=MD Red|v2=MD Blue|link=Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Red Rescue Team and Blue Rescue Team|area=[[Fiery Field]] (17F-25F), [[Buried Relic]] (80F-87F)}}
{{Availability/Entry1|v=Ranger|link=Pokémon Ranger (game)|area=[[Dusk Factory]]}}
|}
|}
{{Availability/Gen|gen=IV}}
{{Availability/Entry2|v=MD Time|v2=MD Darkness|link=Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Time and Explorers of Darkness|area=[[Aegis Cave]] (Rock B2-B3, Steel B1-B3, Pit B1-B3)}}
{{Availability/Entry1|v=MD Sky|link=Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Sky|area=[[Aegis Cave]] (Rock B2-B3, Steel B1-B3, Pit B1-B3)}}
{{Availability/Entry1|v=Ranger: SoA|link=Pokémon Ranger: Shadows of Almia|color={{SoA color}}|area=[[Cargo Ship]]}}
{{Availability/Entry1|v=Rumble|color={{fire color}}|area=[[Rocky Cave]] (Normal Mode C & A, Advanced Mode B & A)</small}}
|}
|}
{{Availability/Gen|gen=V}}
{{Availability/Entry1|1|v=Rumble Blast|color={{fire color}}|area=Canyon: [[Sunny Seashore]]}}
{{Availability/Entry1|1|v=Conquest|color={{silver color}}|area=[[Evolution|Evolve]] {{p|Machop}}}}
{{Availability/Entry1|1|v=Rumble U|color={{fire color}}|area=[[Melodious Woodland#A Lively Concert|Melodious Woodland: A Lively Concert]]}}
|}
|}
{{Availability/Gen|gen=VI}}
{{Availability/Entry1|1|v=Battle Trozei|color={{defense color}}|area=[[Safari Jungle#Monday Stage 2|Safari Jungle: Stage 2]]{{dotw|Mo}}}}
{{Availability/Entry1|1|v=Shuffle|color={{beauty color}}|area=[[Roseus Center|Roseus Center: Stage 247]]}}
{{Availability/Entry1|1|v=Rumble World|color={{fire color}}|area=[[Origin Hideaway#Super-Aura Test Lab|Origin Hideaway: Super-Aura Test Lab]] (All Areas, Entrance Boss)}}
|}
|}
{{Availability/Footer}}

====In events====
{{eventAvail/h|type=fighting}}
{{eventAvail|{{gameabbrev3|FRLG}}|Pokémon Trade and Battle Day Machoke|English|United States|38|September 25, 2004|link=List of Trade and Battle Day event Pokémon distributions#Machoke}}
{{eventAvail|{{gameabbrev5|BW}}|Trade for Evolution! Machoke|Japanese|Japan|30|October 10 to November 28, 2010|link=List of local Japanese event Pokémon distributions in Generation V#Machoke}}
|}

===Held items===
{{HeldItems
|type=Fighting
|rby1=Berry|rby1type=Berry (Generation II)|rby1rar=100|rby1image=no
|frlg1=Focus Band|frlg1type=In-battle effect item|frlg1rar=5
|event1=Fighting Gem|event1type=Gem
}}

===Stats===
====Base stats====
{{BaseStats with RBY
|HP= 80
|Attack=100
|Defense=70
|SpAtk= 50
|SpDef= 60
|Special=50
|Speed= 45
|type=Fighting
}}

====Pokéathlon stats====
{{Pokéthlon
|type=Fighting
|Speed=2
|SpeedMax=2
|Power=4
|PowerMax=4
|Technique=2
|TechniqueMax=3
|Stamina=3
|StaminaMax=4
|Jump=2
|JumpMax=2
}}

===Type effectiveness===
{{TypeEffectiveness
|type1=Fighting
|Normal= 100
|Fighting=100
|Flying= 200
|Poison= 100
|Ground= 100
|Rock= 50
|Bug= 50
|Ghost= 100
|Steel= 100
|Fire= 100
|Water= 100
|Grass= 100
|Electric=100
|Psychic= 200
|Ice= 100
|Dragon= 100
|Dark= 50
|Fairy=200}}

===Learnset===
====By [[Level|leveling up]]====
{{learnlist/levelh/6|Machoke|Fighting|Fighting|1|XY|ORAS|xy=n}}
{{learnlist/levelVI|1|1|Low Kick|Fighting|Physical|—|100|20||'''|Tough|1|0}}
{{learnlist/levelVI|1|1|Leer|Normal|Status|—|100|30|||Cool|2|1}}
{{learnlist/levelVI|1|1|Focus Energy|Normal|Status|—|—|30|||Cool|1|0}}
{{learnlist/levelVI|1|1|Karate Chop|Fighting|Physical|50|100|25||'''|Tough|4|0}}
{{learnlist/levelVI|7|3|Focus Energy|Normal|Status|—|—|30|||Cool|1|0}}
{{learnlist/levelVI|10|7|Karate Chop|Fighting|Physical|50|100|25||'''|Tough|4|0}}
{{learnlist/levelVI|19|9|Foresight|Normal|Status|—|—|40|||Clever|2|1}}
{{learnlist/levelVI|13|13|Low Sweep|Fighting|Physical|65|100|20||'''|Clever|2|3}}
{{learnlist/levelVI|22|15|Seismic Toss|Fighting|Physical|—|100|20|||Tough|3|0}}
{{learnlist/levelVI|25|19|Revenge|Fighting|Physical|60|100|10||'''|Tough|2|0}}
{{learnlist/levelVI|N/A|21|Knock Off|Dark|Physical|65|100|25|||Clever|2|3}}
{{learnlist/levelVI|32|25|Vital Throw|Fighting|Physical|70|—|10||'''|Cool|2|0}}
{{learnlist/levelVI|40|27|Wake-Up Slap|Fighting|Physical|70|100|10||'''|Tough|3|0}}
{{learnlist/levelVI|N/A|33|Dual Chop|Dragon|Physical|40|90|15|||Tough|2|1}}
{{learnlist/levelVI|36|37|Submission|Fighting|Physical|80|80|25||'''|Cool|6|0}}
{{learnlist/levelVI|N/A|43|Bulk Up|Fighting|Status|—|—|20|||Cool|1|0}}
{{learnlist/levelVI|44|47|Cross Chop|Fighting|Physical|100|80|5||'''|Cool|3|0}}
{{learnlist/levelVI|51|53|Scary Face|Normal|Status|—|100|10|||Tough|3|0}}
{{learnlist/levelVI|55|57|Dynamic Punch|Fighting|Physical|100|50|5||'''|Cool|2|1}}
{{learnlist/levelf/6|Machoke|Fighting|Fighting|1}}

====By [[TM]]/[[HM]]====
{{learnlist/tmh/6|Machoke|Fighting|Fighting|1|xy=n}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM06|Toxic|Poison|Status|—|90|10|||Clever|3|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM08|Bulk Up|Fighting|Status|—|—|20|||Cool|1|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM10|Hidden Power|Normal|Special|60|100|15|||Clever|3|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM11|Sunny Day|Fire|Status|—|—|5|||Beautiful|1|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM16|Light Screen|Psychic|Status|—|—|30|||Beautiful|2|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM17|Protect|Normal|Status|—|—|10|||Cute|2|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM18|Rain Dance|Water|Status|—|—|5|||Beautiful|1|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM21|Frustration|Normal|Physical|—|100|20|||Cute|2|3}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM23|Smack Down|Rock|Physical|50|100|15|||Tough|2|1}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM26|Earthquake|Ground|Physical|100|100|10|||Tough|2|1}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM27|Return|Normal|Physical|—|100|20|||Cute|4|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM28|Dig|Ground|Physical|80|100|10|||Tough|2|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM31|Brick Break|Fighting|Physical|75|100|15||'''|Cool|4|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM32|Double Team|Normal|Status|—|—|15|||Cool|1|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM35|Flamethrower|Fire|Special|90|100|15|||Beautiful|4|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM38|Fire Blast|Fire|Special|110|85|5|||Beautiful|1|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM39|Rock Tomb|Rock|Physical|60|95|15|||Clever|3|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM42|Facade|Normal|Physical|70|100|20|||Cute|2|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM44|Rest|Psychic|Status|—|—|10|||Cute|1|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM45|Attract|Normal|Status|—|100|15|||Cute|2|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM46|Thief|Dark|Physical|60|100|25|||Tough|1|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM47|Low Sweep|Fighting|Physical|65|100|20||'''|Clever|2|3}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM48|Round|Normal|Special|60|100|15|||Beautiful|2|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM52|Focus Blast|Fighting|Special|120|70|5||'''|Cool|4|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM56|Fling|Dark|Physical|—|100|10|||Cute|3|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM59|Incinerate|Fire|Special|60|100|15|||Tough|3|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM66|Payback|Dark|Physical|50|100|10|||Tough|2|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM67|Retaliate|Normal|Physical|70|100|5|||Cool|3|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM78|Bulldoze|Ground|Physical|60|100|20|||Tough|2|2}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM80|Rock Slide|Rock|Physical|75|90|10|||Tough|2|2}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM84|Poison Jab|Poison|Physical|80|100|20|||Tough|4|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM87|Swagger|Normal|Status|—|90|15|||Cute|3|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM88|Sleep Talk|Normal|Status|—|—|10|||Cute|1|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM90|Substitute|Normal|Status|—|—|10|||Cute|2|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM94|Rock Smash|Fighting|Physical|40|100|15|{{sup/6|XY}}|'''|Tough|4|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM94|Secret Power|Normal|Physical|70|100|20|{{sup/6|ORAS}}||Clever|1|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM98|Power-Up Punch|Fighting|Physical|40|100|20||'''|Tough|1|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM100|Confide|Normal|Status|—|—|20|||Cute|3|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|HM04|Strength|Normal|Physical|80|100|15|||Tough|4|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|HM06|Rock Smash|Fighting|Physical|40|100|15|{{sup/6|ORAS}}|'''|Tough|4|0}}
{{learnlist/tmf/6|Machoke|Fighting|Fighting|1}}

====By {{pkmn|breeding}}====
{{learnlist/breedh/6|Machoke|Fighting|Fighting|2|xy=n}}
{{learnlist/breed6|{{MSP|107|Hitmonchan}}|Bullet Punch|Steel|Physical|40|100|30|||Tough|3|0}}
{{learnlist/breed6|{{MSP|106|Hitmonlee}}{{MSP|107|Hitmonchan}}{{MSP|237|Hitmontop}}{{MSP|296|Makuhita}}{{MSP|297|Hariyama}}{{MSP|391|Monferno}} {{MSP|392|Infernape}}{{MSP|448|Lucario}}{{MSP|539|Sawk}}|Close Combat|Fighting|Physical|120|100|5||'''|Tough|6|0}}
{{learnlist/breed6|{{MSP|107|Hitmonchan}}{{MSP|237|Hitmontop}}{{MSP|448|Lucario}}{{MSP|539|Sawk}}|Counter|Fighting|Physical|—|100|20|||Tough|2|0}}
{{learnlist/breed6|{{MSP|122|Mr. Mime}}{{MSP|701|Hawlucha}}|Encore|Normal|Status|—|100|5|||Cute|2|0}}
{{learnlist/breed6|{{MSP|107|Hitmonchan}}{{MSP|466|Electivire}}{{MSP|126|Magmar}}{{MSP|467|Magmortar}}{{MSP|308|Medicham}}|Fire Punch|Fire|Physical|75|100|15|||Tough|4|0}}
{{learnlist/breed6|{{MSP|296|Makuhita}}{{MSP|297|Hariyama}}|Heavy Slam|Steel|Status|—|100|10|||Tough|3|0}}
{{learnlist/breed6|{{MSP|107|Hitmonchan}}{{MSP|308|Medicham}}|Ice Punch|Ice|Physical|75|100|15|||Beautiful|4|0}}
{{learnlist/breed6|{{MSP|066|Machop}}{{MSP|067|Machoke}}{{MSP|068|Machamp}}{{MSP|296|Makuhita}}{{MSP|297|Hariyama}}{{MSP|302|Sableye}}|Knock Off|Dark|Physical|65|100|25|||Clever|2|3}}
{{learnlist/breed6|{{MSP|096|Drowzee}}{{MSP|097|Hypno}}{{MSP|106|Hitmonlee}}{{MSP|122|Mr. Mime}}{{MSP|307|Meditite}}{{MSP|308|Medicham}} {{MSP|619|Mienfoo}}{{MSP|620|Mienshao}}|Meditate|Psychic|Status|—|—|40|||Beautiful|1|0}}
{{learnlist/breed6|{{MSP|307|Meditite}}{{MSP|308|Medicham}}|Power Trick|Psychic|Status|—|—|10|||Clever|2|0}}
{{learnlist/breed6|{{MSP|107|Hitmonchan}}{{MSP|237|Hitmontop}}{{MSP|122|Mr. Mime}}{{MSP|448|Lucario}}{{MSP|539|Sawk}}{{MSP|619|Mienfoo}}|Quick Guard|Fighting|Status|—|—|15|||Cool|2|0}}
{{learnlist/breed6|{{MSP|106|Hitmonlee}}{{MSP|237|Hitmontop}}|Rolling Kick|Fighting|Physical|60|85|15||'''|Cool|4|0}}
{{learnlist/breed6|{{MSP|296|Makuhita}}{{MSP|297|Hariyama}}|Smelling Salts|Normal|Physical|70|100|10|||Tough|3|0}}
{{learnlist/breed6|{{MSP|107|Hitmonchan}}{{MSP|125|Electabuzz}}{{MSP|466|Electivire}}{{MSP|467|Magmortar}}{{MSP|308|Medicham}}|Thunder Punch|Electric|Physical|75|100|15|||Cool|4|0}}
{{learnlist/breed6|{{MSP|122|Mr. Mime}}{{MSP|574|Gothita}}{{MSP|575|Gothorita}}{{MSP|576|Gothitelle}}|Tickle|Normal|Status|—|100|20|||Cute|3|0}}
{{learnlist/breedf/6|Machoke|Fighting|Fighting|2}}

====By [[Move Tutor|tutoring]]====
{{learnlist/tutorh/6|Machoke|Fighting|Fighting|2|xy=n}}
{{learnlist/tutor6|Dual Chop|Dragon|Physical|40|90|15|||no|yes|Tough|2|1}}
{{learnlist/tutor6|Fire Punch|Fire|Physical|75|100|15|||no|yes|Tough|4|0}}
{{learnlist/tutor6|Focus Punch|Fighting|Physical|150|100|20||'''|no|yes|Tough|2|0}}
{{learnlist/tutor6|Helping Hand|Normal|Status|—|—|20|||no|yes|Clever|4|0}}
{{learnlist/tutor6|Ice Punch|Ice|Physical|75|100|15|||no|yes|Beautiful|4|0}}
{{learnlist/tutor6|Knock Off|Dark|Physical|65|100|25|||no|yes|Clever|2|3}}
{{learnlist/tutor6|Low Kick|Fighting|Physical|—|100|20||'''|no|yes|Tough|1|0}}
{{learnlist/tutor6|Role Play|Psychic|Status|—|—|10|||no|yes|Cute|1|0}}
{{learnlist/tutor6|Snore|Normal|Special|50|100|15|||no|yes|Cute|4|0}}
{{learnlist/tutor6|Superpower|Fighting|Physical|120|100|5||'''|no|yes|Tough|6|0}}
{{learnlist/tutor6|Thunder Punch|Electric|Physical|75|100|15|||no|yes|Cool|4|0}}
{{learnlist/tutorf/6|Machoke|Fighting|Fighting|2}}

====By a prior [[evolution]]====
{{learnlist/prevoh/6|Machoke|Fighting|Fighting|1|xy=n}}
{{learnlist/prevo6null}}
{{learnlist/prevof/6|Machoke|Fighting|Fighting|1}}

===Side game data===
{{Spindata/Head|type=Fighting}}
{{Spindata/Pinball|col=2|type=Fighting|ndex=067|acquisition=Evolve|evolved=yes}}
{{Spindata/PinballRS|col=2|type=Fighting|ndex=067|acquisition=Evolve|evolved=yes}}
{{Spindata/Trozei|col=2|type=Fighting|ndex=067|rarity=Rare}}
|-
{{Spindata/MDRB|col=6|type=Fighting|ndex=067
|body=1
|rate=-19
|area=Mt. Discipline
|P1=If it's all about power, no one gets the better of me!
|P2=This isn't looking good. My health is down by half.
|P3=I'm useless... There's not an ounce of power left...
|PL=Leveled! I can feel the power welling up!
}}
|-
{{Spindata/MDTDS|col=6|type=Fighting|ndex=067
|body=1
|rate=-4.5
|IQ=D
}}
|-
{{Spindata/Ranger|col=6|type=Fighting
|group=Fighting
|assist=Fighting
|fieldpower=2
|field=Crush
|loop=8
|MinEXP=52
|MaxEXP=62
|browser=Machoke takes pride in its strong body. It has no trouble crushing big Boulders.
}}
|-
{{Spindata/Ranger SoA|col=6|type=Fighting
|group=Fighting
|assist=Fighting
|field=Tackle
|fieldpower=2
|browser=It attacks by throwing punches and launching shock waves.
}}
|-
{{Spindata/Rumble|col=3|type=Fighting
|att=3
|def=3
|speed=3
}}
{{Spindata/RumbleBlast|col=3|type=Fighting
|att=3
|def=3
|speed=3
}}
|-
{{Spindata/Conquest|col=6|type=Fighting|ndex=067
|HP=3
|atk=3
|def=2
|spd=2
|range=3
|move=Wake-Up Slap
|ability1=Guts
|ability2=Thrust
|ability3=Bodyguard
|evo=Evolves from {{p|Machop}} when its Attack is 86 or higher Evolves into {{p|Machamp}} when it has a link of 60% or higher, after knocking out a [[Warrior]]'s Pokémon in a manner that allows recruitment
|link={{DL|List of Pokémon Conquest characters|Isa}}, {{DL|List of Pokémon Conquest characters|Masatoshi}}, and {{DL|List of Pokémon Conquest characters|Tadatsune}}
}}
|-
{{Spindata/Battle Trozei|col=3|type=Fighting|ndex=067
|power=2
}}
{{Spindata/Shuffle|col=3|type=Fighting|ndex=067|num=344
|min=60
|max=80
|raisemaxlevel=0
|skill=Stabilize
|skilldesc=Occasionally erases one of the foe's disruptions on the board.
}}
|-
{{Spindata/GO|col=6|type=Fighting|ndex=067
|hatch=N/A
|evocandy=100
|stamina=160
|attack=154
|defense=144
|fast={{m|Low Kick}}, {{m|Karate Chop}}
|special={{m|Submission}}, {{m|Brick Break}}, {{m|Cross Chop}}
}}
|}

===Evolution===
{{Evobox-3
|type1=Fighting
|pictype=art
|no1=066
|name1=Machop
|type1-1=Fighting
|evo1={{bag|Rare Candy}} {{color2|000|Level|Level 28}}
|no2=067
|name2=Machoke
|type1-2=Fighting
|evo2={{bag|Pal Pad}} {{color2|000|Trade}}
|no3=068
|name3=Machamp
|type1-3=Fighting}}

===Sprites===
{{Spritebox/Header|type=Fighting}}
{{Spritebox/1|ndex=067}}
{{Spritebox/2|ndex=067}}
{{Spritebox/3|ndex=067}}
{{Spritebox/4|ndex=067}}
{{Spritebox/5|ndex=067}}
{{Spritebox/6|ndex=067}}
{{Spritebox/Footer|067|Machoke}}

==Trivia==
* In the [[Pokémon Red and Green beta|Pokémon Red and Blue beta]], Machoke was originally known as "Kung-Foo". This name is a corruption of ''kung fu'', a Chinese martial art.
* In [[The Official Pokémon Handbook]], Machoke is described as being extremely narcissistic; "Machoke, [...]likes its own body way too much. Sometimes it's too busy looking at itself in the mirror to train", which is exactly the opposite of the description given in Pokémon Stadium; "Although it is incredibly strong, it is always modest".
* Machoke's belt looks very similar to the Winner's Belt Prop in {{game|Black and White|s}}.

===Origin===
Machoke appears to be based on a {{wp|bodybuilder}} or wrestler with some reptilian traits.

====Name origin====
Machoke may be a combination of ''macho'' ({{wp|Spanish (language)|Spanish}} for ''male'', ''overly masculine'' or ''chauvinist'') and ''choke''. ''Macho'' has come to mean tough or masculine in English. Akin to {{p|Mr. Mime}}, the masculine attribute has no reflection on gender assignment, as both species can be male and female; however, {{p|Machop}}'s evolutionary line does have a 3:1 male:female ratio, making the species predominantly—but not entirely—male.

Goriky is a corruption of 剛力 ''gōriki'' ({{wp|Hercules|herculean}} strength).

==In other languages==
{{Other languages|type=fighting|type2=fighting
|ja=ゴーリキー ''Goriky''|jameaning=Corruption of {{tt|剛力 ''gōriki''|herculean strength}}
|fr=Machopeur|frmeaning=From ''Macho'' and ''{{tt|choppeur|someone who nabs people}}'' or ''{{tt|peur|fear}}''
|es=Machoke|esmeaning=Same as English name
|de=Maschock|demeaning=From ''Macho'' and ''{{tt|Schock|shock}}''
|it=Machoke|itmeaning=Same as English name
|ko=근육몬 ''Geunyukmon''|komeaning=From {{tt|근육 ''geun'yuk''|muscle}} and {{tt|''monster''|몬스터}}
|zh_yue=大力 ''Daaihlihk''|zh_yuemeaning=Literally "Great strength"
|zh_cmn=豪力 ''Háolì''|zh_cmnmeaning=Literally "Heroic strength"
|hi=मचोक ''Machoke''|himeaning=Transcription of English name
|ru=Мачоук ''Machouk''|rumeaning=Transcription of English name
}}
 

==Related articles==
* [[Blue's Machoke]]

==External links==
* {{wp|Machop, Machoke, and Machamp|Article on Wikipedia}}

==Notes==
<references />

{{PokémonPrevNext/Head|type=Fighting}}
{{PokémonPrevNext/Pokémon|type=Fighting|prevnum=066|prev=Machop|nextnum=068|next=Machamp}}
|}
{{-}}
{{Project Pokédex notice}}
[[Category:Pokémon that evolve through trading]]

[[de:Maschock]]
[[fr:Machopeur]]
[[it:Machoke]]
[[ja:ゴーリキー]]
[[pl:Machoke]]
[[zh:豪力]]

Machoke (Pokémon)

2016-09-10T20:17:02Z

Ericss:

Machoke (Pokémon)

2016-09-10T20:12:18Z

Ericss:

{{PokémonPrevNext/Head|type=Fighting}}
{{PokémonPrevNext/GO|species=Machoke}}
{{PokémonPrevNext/Pokémon|type=Fighting|prevnum=066|prev=Machop|nextnum=068|next=Machamp|round=none}}
{{PokémonPrevNext/Disambig|species=Machoke}}
|}
{{Pokémon Infobox
|name=Machoke
|jname=ゴーリキー
|jtranslit=Gōrikī
|tmname=Goriky
|ndex=067
|oldjdex=141
|jdex=143
|hdex=074
|hdex6=076
|fbrow=081
|sdex=041
|karea=Coastal
|kdex=058
|abrow=162
|typebox=1
|type1=Fighting
|category=Superpower
|height-ftin=4'11"
|height-m=1.5
|weight-lbs=155.4
|weight-kg=70.5
|abilityn=d
|ability1=Guts
|ability2=No Guard
|abilityd=Steadfast
|egggroupn=1
|egggroup1=Human-Like
|eggcycles=21
|evtotal=2
|evat=2
|expyield=142
|oldexp=146
|lv100exp=1,059,860
|gendercode=63
|color=Gray
|catchrate=90
|body=12
|pokefordex=machoke
|generation=1
|friendship=70
}}
'''Machoke''' ([[List of Japanese Pokémon names|Japanese]]: '''ゴーリキー''' ''Goriky'') is a {{type|Fighting}} Pokémon.

It [[Evolution|evolves]] from {{p|Machop}} starting at [[level]] 28 and evolves into {{p|Machamp}} when [[trade]]d.

==Biology==
Machoke is a bipedal, humanoid Pokémon covered in gray skin. It has a vaguely reptilian face with a short snout, narrow red eyes, and four pointed teeth visible inside its mouth. Two of these teeth are in the upper jaw, while two are in the lower jaw. On top of its head are three, light brown ridges. Its arms are muscular with dark red, vertical stripes on them, resembling places where the skin has stretched apart because it can barely contain its huge muscles. It possesses large pectoral muscles that protrude slightly over its belt. The lower part of its body has black markings that resemble briefs. It is always seen wearing a black and golden power-save belt that regulates Machoke's strength.

Machoke is a Pokémon of immense strength. Its muscles are as hard as steel, and it is capable of lifting extremely heavy objects with only one finger. In spite of this, it is modest and often helps people with manual labor. It can be found in the {{DL|List of Pokémon by habitat|Mountain Pokémon|mountains}}, where it trains daily.

==In the anime==
[[File:Korrina Machoke.png|250px|left|thumb|Machoke in the anime]]
===Major appearances===
Two Machoke were present on the expedition crew in ''[[EP089|Shell Shock!]]''. They rescued {{Ash}}, {{an|Misty}}, {{Tracey}} and the crew from a runaway boulder heading for them.

In ''[[EP136|Chikorita's Big Upset]]'', one was part of a group of {{type|Fighting}} Pokémon that roamed the streets of the city as a gang.

In ''[[EP200|Turning Over A New Bayleef]]'', one owned by [[Haruno]] helped her with her gardening.

[[Chuck]] used a Machoke for the Gym Battle in ''[[EP209|Machoke, Machoke Man]]''. Chuck's Machoke was defeated by [[Ash's Bayleef]].

A Machoke appeared with a Machop in ''[[EP265|Pop Goes The Sneasel]]''. These Pokémon were protecting the flame of {{p|Ho-Oh}} both with a {{p|Sneasel}}.

A Machoke was used by the {{OBP|captain|EP274}} in ''[[EP274|Hoenn Alone!]]''.

Emily had a {{p|Machop}}, Machoke, and {{p|Machamp}} chase after her runaway {{p|Psyduck}} in ''[[AG140|Sitting Psyduck]]''.

Several Machoke and Machamp appeared in ''[[DP057|Bibarel Gnaws Best!]]'' as construction workers.

[[Maylene]] also owns a Machoke which appeared in ''[[DP066|Lost Leader Strategy!]]''.

{{si|Kenny}} used a Machoke in the [[Appeal|Performance Stage]] of the {{to|Sandalstraw}} {{pkmn|Contest}} in ''[[DP123|Old Rivals, New Tricks!]]''.

A Machoke appeared in ''[[XY044|Showdown at the Shalour Gym!]]'' under the ownership of [[Korrina]].

===Minor appearances===
Machoke has had many appearances, many more than its evolved and pre-evolved forms. It can usually be seen in {{wp|Dojo}}s and on construction sites.

Machoke made its debut in ''[[EP029|The Punchy Pokémon]]'' where it fought against [[Ash's Primeape]].

A Machoke appeared in a flashback in ''[[EP037|Ditto's Mysterious Mansion]]''.

In ''[[EP042|Showdown at Dark City]]'', Machoke is one of the Pokémon owned by one of the {{pkmn|Trainer}}s at [[Yas Gym]].

Machoke also appeared in ''[[EP043|The March of the Exeggutor Squad]]''.

A Machoke appeared in ''[[EP052|Princess vs. Princess]]'' competing in the {{DL|Princess Festival|Queen of the Princess Festival contest}}.

A Machoke was seen in a Pokémon Lab in ''[[EP58|Riddle Me This]]''.

A Machoke under the ownership of [[Stella]] appeared in ''[[EP064|It's Mr. Mime Time]]''.

In ''[[EP090|Stage Fight!]]'', a Machoke was part of a showboat stage show along with other Pokémon.

[[Danny]] owned a Machoke in ''[[EP093|Navel Maneuvers]]'', which helped him carve a sled in order to compete with it. It reappeared in a flashback in ''[[EP111|Hello, Pummelo!]]''.

Machoke also appeared in the second [[original series]] {{pkmn|movie}}, ''[[M02|The Power of One]]''.

A Machoke was seen in a dojo in ''[[EP140|Wired for Battle!]]''.

A Machoke was one of the Pokémon seen at the [[Pokémon Swap Meet]] in ''[[EP146|Tricks of the Trade]]''.

[[Trixie]] has a Machoke which is used in a circus in ''[[EP153|Love, Totodile Style]]''.

[[Dr. Anna]] owns a Machoke which she uses in her health clinic for massages in ''[[EP165|Hassle in the Castle]]''.

{{OBP|Kenzo|EP166}} owned a Machoke in ''[[EP166|Two Hits and a Miss]]''.

A Machoke appeared in ''[[EP169|Beauty and the Breeder]]'' where it participated in {{pkmn|Beauty Contest|a Pokémon breeding competition}}.

A Machoke appeared in ''[[EP170|A Better Pill to Swallow]]'' as a fantasized Pokémon.

''[[EP173|Wobbu-Palooza!]]'' featured a Machoke belonging to a [[Wobbuffet Festival crashers|Festival Crasher]].

A Machoke was part of a Pokémon street festival in ''[[EP201|Doin' What Comes Natu-rally]]''.

A Machoke was one of the Pokémon defeated by [[Wings Alexander]]'s then Hoothoot as seen in his flashback in ''[[EP223|Throwing in the Noctowl]]''.

A Machoke was seen training alongside its Trainer in ''[[EP262|You're a Star, Larvitar!]]''.

A Machoke made an appearance in ''[[SS003|We're No Angels!]]'' and in the opening of ''[[M07|Destiny Deoxys]]''.

A Machoke was also owned by a [[demolition crew]] (which was changed into a construction crew due to [[Ritchie]] changing the past) in ''[[SS013|Celebi and Joy!]]''.

It was revealed in ''[[DP066|Lost Leader Strategy!]]'' that [[Maylene]] had a Machoke that was used in a Gym battle against [[Paul]] and in ''[[DP068|A Triple Fighting Chance!]]'' wherein Machoke was defeated by [[Ash's Staravia]].

A Machoke appeared in ''[[DP092|A Lean Mean Team Rocket Machine!]]'' on a fitness program.

A {{pkmn|Trainer}}'s Machoke appeared in ''[[DP160|A Marathon Rivalry!]]'' participating in the [[Pokéathlon]] held in [[Camellia Town]].

===Pokédex entries===
{{Animedexheader|Sinnoh}}
{{Animedexbody|DP068|Machoke|Dawn's Pokédex|Machoke, the Superpower Pokémon. With enough strength to lift a giant truck with one hand, Machoke are often used to extremely heavy work.}}
{{Animedexfooter/Pokémon|''Diamond & Pearl''|Sinnoh}}

==In the manga==
===In the Pokémon Adventures manga===
[[File:Machoke Adventures.png|thumb|200px|Machoke in [[Pokémon Adventures]]]]
{{main|Blue's Machoke}}

Machoke debuts in its own round, ''[[PS002|Bulbasaur, Come Home!]]''. Here, it protected the [[Viridian Gym]] from intruders, attacking {{adv|Red}} and {{adv|Professor Oak}}, but [[Saur|Bulbasaur]] defeated it with a {{m|SolarBeam}}.

{{adv|Blue}} also had a Machoke that evolved into [[Blue's Machamp|Machamp]] under Red's care, but was traded back afterwards in ''[[PS018|A Tale of Ninetales]]''.

Machoke was seen again in {{PAV|18}} as one of [[Brawly]]'s Pokémon; it is unconfirmed if this Machoke evolved from the Machop he had in {{PAV|16}}. Machoke attempted to fight [[Blaise]]'s fiery illusions in {{PAV|20}} at the [[Lilycove Museum]], but failed miserably and ended up getting burned. His {{p|Hariyama}} succeeded in doing so, however.

Three Machoke were helping X's family move into their new home in [[Vaniville Town]] in the {{chap|X & Y}}.

===In the Pokémon Pocket Monsters manga===
{{OBP|Red|Pocket Monsters}} owns a Machamp which he caught after it evolved from Machoke in ''[[PM008|Catch That Pokémon Thief!!]]''.

{{OBP|Giovanni|Pocket Monsters}}'s Machoke was used in the Gym battle against Red in ''[[PM031|Get The Last Badge!!]]''.

===In the Pokémon Diamond and Pearl Adventure! manga===
A {{tc|Galactic Grunt}} uses a Machoke in ''[[DPA05|Find Munchlax!!]]''.

[[Maylene]] has a Machoke which was only seen getting defeated by [[Hareta's Piplup]].

==In the TCG==
{{main|Machoke (TCG)}}

==Game data==
===Pokédex entries===
{{Dex/Header|type=fighting}}
{{Dex/Gen|gen=I}}
{{Dex/Entry2|v=Red|v2=Blue|t2=FFF|entry=Its muscular body is so powerful, it must wear a power save belt to be able to regulate its motions.}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=Yellow|entry=The belt around its waist holds back its energy. Without it, this Pokémon would be unstoppable.}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=Stadium|t=FFF|color=000|entry=Although it is incredibly strong, it is always modest. It restrains its strength with a power-save belt.}}
|}
|}
{{Dex/Gen|gen=II}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=Gold|entry=It always goes at its full power, but this very tough and durable Pokémon never gets tired.}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=Silver|entry=The muscles covering its body teem with power. Even when still, it exudes an amazing sense of strength.}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=Crystal|entry=This tough Pokémon always stays in the zone. Its muscles become thicker after every battle.}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=Stadium 2|t=FFF|color=000|entry=It always goes at its full power, but this very tough and durable Pokémon never gets tired.}}
|}
|}
{{Dex/Gen|gen=III}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=Ruby|t=FFF|entry=Machoke's thoroughly toned muscles possess the hardness of {{wp|steel}}. This Pokémon has so much strength, it can easily hold aloft a sumo wrestler on just one finger.}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=Sapphire|t=FFF|entry=Machoke undertakes bodybuilding every day even as it helps people with tough, physically demanding labor. On its days off, this Pokémon heads to the fields and mountains to exercise and train.}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=Emerald|t=FFF|entry=A belt is worn by a Machoke to keep its overwhelming power under control. Because it is so dangerous, no one has ever removed the belt.}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=FireRed|entry=Its formidable body never gets tired. It helps people by doing work such as the moving of heavy goods.}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=LeafGreen|entry=Its muscular body is so powerful, it must wear a power-save belt to be able to regulate its motions.}}
|}
|}
{{Dex/Gen|gen=IV}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=Diamond|entry=Machoke's boundless power is very dangerous, so it wears a belt that suppresses its energy.}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=Pearl|entry=It can lift a dump truck with one hand. Using that power, it helps people with heavy jobs.}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=Platinum|entry=It happily carries heavy cargo to toughen up. It willingly does hard work for people.}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=HeartGold|entry=It always goes at its full power, but this very tough and durable Pokémon never gets tired.}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=SoulSilver|entry=The muscles covering its body teem with power. Even when still, it exudes an amazing sense of strength.}}
|}
|}
{{Dex/Gen|gen=V}}
{{Dex/Entry2|v=Black|v2=White|t=FFF|entry=It happily carries heavy cargo to toughen up. It willingly does hard work for people.}}
{{Dex/Entry2|v=Black 2|v2=White 2|t=FFF|entry=It happily carries heavy cargo to toughen up. It willingly does hard work for people.}}
|}
|}
{{Dex/Gen|gen=VI}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=X|t=FFF|entry=Its muscular body is so powerful, it must wear a power-save belt to be able to regulate its motions.}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=Y|entry=It can lift a dump truck with one hand. Using that power, it helps people with heavy jobs.}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=Omega Ruby|t=FFF|entry=Machoke's thoroughly toned muscles possess the hardness of {{wp|steel}}. This Pokémon has so much strength, it can easily hold aloft a sumo wrestler on just one finger.}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=Alpha Sapphire|t=FFF|entry=Machoke undertakes bodybuilding every day even as it helps people with tough, physically demanding labor. On its days off, this Pokémon heads to the fields and mountains to exercise and train.}}
|}
|}
{{Dex/Footer}}

===Game locations===
{{Availability/Header|type=fighting}}
{{Availability/Gen|gen=I}}
{{Availability/Entry2|v=Red|v2=Blue|t2=fff|area={{ka|Victory Road}}}}
{{Availability/Entry1|v=Blue|ex=(Japan)|t=fff|link=Pokémon Blue Version (Japanese)|area={{ka|Victory Road}}}}
{{Availability/Entry1|v=Yellow|area={{ka|Victory Road}} [[In-game trade#Yellow|Trade]] {{p|Cubone}} on {{rt|5|Kanto}}{{tt|*|immediately evolves into Machamp, but Pokédex data is entered}}}}
|}
|}
{{Availability/Gen|gen=II}}
{{Availability/Entry2|v=Gold|v2=Silver|area=[[Rock Tunnel]], [[Mt. Mortar]]}}
{{Availability/Entry1|v=Crystal|area=[[Mt. Mortar]], [[Mt. Silver]], [[Rock Tunnel]]}}
|}
|}
{{Availability/Gen|gen=III}}
{{Availability/Entry2|v=Ruby|v2=Sapphire|t=fff|t2=fff|area=[[Evolution|Evolve]] {{p|Machop}}}}
{{Availability/Entry1|v=Emerald|t=fff|area=[[Evolution|Evolve]] {{p|Machop}}}}
{{Availability/Entry2|v=FireRed|v2=LeafGreen|area=[[Cerulean Cave]], [[Mt. Ember]], {{ka|Victory Road}}}}
{{Availability/Entry1/None|v=Colosseum}}
{{Availability/Entry1/None|v=XD|link=Pokémon XD: Gale of Darkness}}
|}
|}
{{Availability/Gen|gen=IV}}
{{Availability/Entry2|v=Diamond|v2=Pearl|area=[[Route]]s {{rtn|210|Sinnoh}}, {{rtn|211|Sinnoh}}, {{rtn|216|Sinnoh}}, {{rtn|217|Sinnoh}}, {{rtn|225|Sinnoh}}, and {{rtn|226|Sinnoh}}, [[Stark Mountain]], [[Mt. Coronet]], {{si|Victory Road}}}}
{{Availability/Entry1|v=Platinum|area=[[Route]]s {{rtn|210|Sinnoh}}, {{rtn|211|Sinnoh}}, {{rtn|225|Sinnoh}}, and {{rtn|226|Sinnoh}}, [[Mt. Coronet]]}}
{{Availability/Entry2|v=HeartGold|v2=SoulSilver|area=[[Cliff Cave]], [[Mt. Mortar]], [[Cerulean Cave]], [[Rock Tunnel]], {{safari|Johto}}}}
{{Availability/Entry1|v=Pal Park|color=D4B5A7|link=Pal Park|area={{DL|List of Pokémon by Pal Park location|Mountain}}}}
|}
|}
{{Availability/Gen|gen=V}}
{{Availability/Entry1/None|v=Black|area=[[Trade]], {{pkmn2|Event}}}}
{{Availability/Entry1|v=White|area=[[Evolution|Evolve]] {{p|Machop}}}}
{{Availability/Entry2/None|v=Black 2|v2=White 2}}
|}
|}
{{Availability/Gen|gen=VI}}
{{Availability/Entry2|v=X|v2=Y|t=fff|area=[[Friend Safari]] ([[Friend Safari#Fighting-type Safari|Fighting]])}}
{{Availability/Entry2|v=Omega Ruby|v2=Alpha Sapphire|t=fff|t2=fff|area=[[Evolution|Evolve]] {{p|Machop}}}}
|}
|}
{{Availability/Footer}}

====In side games====
{{Availability/Header|type=Fighting}}
{{Availability/Gen|gen=I}}
{{Availability/Entry1|1|v=Pinball|color={{red color}}|area=[[Evolution|Evolve]] {{p|Machop}}}}
|}
|}
{{Availability/Gen|gen=II}}
{{Availability/NA/Side|gen=II}}
|}
|}
{{Availability/Gen|gen=III}}
{{Availability/Entry1|v=Pinball: R&S|link=Pokémon Pinball: Ruby & Sapphire|color={{ruby color}}|t=FFF|area=[[Evolution|Evolve]] {{p|Machop}}}}
{{Availability/Entry1|v=Trozei!|color={{yellow color}}|area=[[Secret Storage 15]], [[Mr. Who's Den]]}}
{{Availability/Entry2|v=MD Red|v2=MD Blue|link=Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Red Rescue Team and Blue Rescue Team|area=[[Fiery Field]] (17F-25F), [[Buried Relic]] (80F-87F)}}
{{Availability/Entry1|v=Ranger|link=Pokémon Ranger (game)|area=[[Dusk Factory]]}}
|}
|}
{{Availability/Gen|gen=IV}}
{{Availability/Entry2|v=MD Time|v2=MD Darkness|link=Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Time and Explorers of Darkness|area=[[Aegis Cave]] (Rock B2-B3, Steel B1-B3, Pit B1-B3)}}
{{Availability/Entry1|v=MD Sky|link=Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Sky|area=[[Aegis Cave]] (Rock B2-B3, Steel B1-B3, Pit B1-B3)}}
{{Availability/Entry1|v=Ranger: SoA|link=Pokémon Ranger: Shadows of Almia|color={{SoA color}}|area=[[Cargo Ship]]}}
{{Availability/Entry1|v=Rumble|color={{fire color}}|area=[[Rocky Cave]] (Normal Mode C & A, Advanced Mode B & A)</small}}
|}
|}
{{Availability/Gen|gen=V}}
{{Availability/Entry1|1|v=Rumble Blast|color={{fire color}}|area=Canyon: [[Sunny Seashore]]}}
{{Availability/Entry1|1|v=Conquest|color={{silver color}}|area=[[Evolution|Evolve]] {{p|Machop}}}}
{{Availability/Entry1|1|v=Rumble U|color={{fire color}}|area=[[Melodious Woodland#A Lively Concert|Melodious Woodland: A Lively Concert]]}}
|}
|}
{{Availability/Gen|gen=VI}}
{{Availability/Entry1|1|v=Battle Trozei|color={{defense color}}|area=[[Safari Jungle#Monday Stage 2|Safari Jungle: Stage 2]]{{dotw|Mo}}}}
{{Availability/Entry1|1|v=Shuffle|color={{beauty color}}|area=[[Roseus Center|Roseus Center: Stage 247]]}}
{{Availability/Entry1|1|v=Rumble World|color={{fire color}}|area=[[Origin Hideaway#Super-Aura Test Lab|Origin Hideaway: Super-Aura Test Lab]] (All Areas, Entrance Boss)}}
|}
|}
{{Availability/Footer}}

====In events====
{{eventAvail/h|type=fighting}}
{{eventAvail|{{gameabbrev3|FRLG}}|Pokémon Trade and Battle Day Machoke|English|United States|38|September 25, 2004|link=List of Trade and Battle Day event Pokémon distributions#Machoke}}
{{eventAvail|{{gameabbrev5|BW}}|Trade for Evolution! Machoke|Japanese|Japan|30|October 10 to November 28, 2010|link=List of local Japanese event Pokémon distributions in Generation V#Machoke}}
|}

===Held items===
{{HeldItems
|type=Fighting
|rby1=Berry|rby1type=Berry (Generation II)|rby1rar=100|rby1image=no
|frlg1=Focus Band|frlg1type=In-battle effect item|frlg1rar=5
|event1=Fighting Gem|event1type=Gem
}}

===Stats===
====Base stats====
{{BaseStats with RBY
|HP= 80
|Attack=100
|Defense=70
|SpAtk= 50
|SpDef= 60
|Special=50
|Speed= 45
|type=Fighting
}}

====Pokéathlon stats====
{{Pokéthlon
|type=Fighting
|Speed=2
|SpeedMax=2
|Power=4
|PowerMax=4
|Technique=2
|TechniqueMax=3
|Stamina=3
|StaminaMax=4
|Jump=2
|JumpMax=2
}}

===Type effectiveness===
{{TypeEffectiveness
|type1=Fighting
|Normal= 100
|Fighting=100
|Flying= 200
|Poison= 100
|Ground= 100
|Rock= 50
|Bug= 50
|Ghost= 100
|Steel= 100
|Fire= 100
|Water= 100
|Grass= 100
|Electric=100
|Psychic= 200
|Ice= 100
|Dragon= 100
|Dark= 50
|Fairy=200}}

===Learnset===
====By [[Level|leveling up]]====
{{learnlist/levelh/6|Machoke|Fighting|Fighting|1|XY|ORAS|xy=n}}
{{learnlist/levelVI|1|1|Low Kick|Fighting|Physical|—|100|20||'''|Tough|1|0}}
{{learnlist/levelVI|1|1|Leer|Normal|Status|—|100|30|||Cool|2|1}}
{{learnlist/levelVI|1|1|Focus Energy|Normal|Status|—|—|30|||Cool|1|0}}
{{learnlist/levelVI|1|1|Karate Chop|Fighting|Physical|50|100|25||'''|Tough|4|0}}
{{learnlist/levelVI|7|3|Focus Energy|Normal|Status|—|—|30|||Cool|1|0}}
{{learnlist/levelVI|10|7|Karate Chop|Fighting|Physical|50|100|25||'''|Tough|4|0}}
{{learnlist/levelVI|19|9|Foresight|Normal|Status|—|—|40|||Clever|2|1}}
{{learnlist/levelVI|13|13|Low Sweep|Fighting|Physical|65|100|20||'''|Clever|2|3}}
{{learnlist/levelVI|22|15|Seismic Toss|Fighting|Physical|—|100|20|||Tough|3|0}}
{{learnlist/levelVI|25|19|Revenge|Fighting|Physical|60|100|10||'''|Tough|2|0}}
{{learnlist/levelVI|N/A|21|Knock Off|Dark|Physical|65|100|25|||Clever|2|3}}
{{learnlist/levelVI|32|25|Vital Throw|Fighting|Physical|70|—|10||'''|Cool|2|0}}
{{learnlist/levelVI|40|27|Wake-Up Slap|Fighting|Physical|70|100|10||'''|Tough|3|0}}
{{learnlist/levelVI|N/A|33|Dual Chop|Dragon|Physical|40|90|15|||Tough|2|1}}
{{learnlist/levelVI|36|37|Submission|Fighting|Physical|80|80|25||'''|Cool|6|0}}
{{learnlist/levelVI|N/A|43|Bulk Up|Fighting|Status|—|—|20|||Cool|1|0}}
{{learnlist/levelVI|44|47|Cross Chop|Fighting|Physical|100|80|5||'''|Cool|3|0}}
{{learnlist/levelVI|51|53|Scary Face|Normal|Status|—|100|10|||Tough|3|0}}
{{learnlist/levelVI|55|57|Dynamic Punch|Fighting|Physical|100|50|5||'''|Cool|2|1}}
{{learnlist/levelf/6|Machoke|Fighting|Fighting|1}}

====By [[TM]]/[[HM]]====
{{learnlist/tmh/6|Machoke|Fighting|Fighting|1|xy=n}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM06|Toxic|Poison|Status|—|90|10|||Clever|3|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM08|Bulk Up|Fighting|Status|—|—|20|||Cool|1|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM10|Hidden Power|Normal|Special|60|100|15|||Clever|3|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM11|Sunny Day|Fire|Status|—|—|5|||Beautiful|1|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM16|Light Screen|Psychic|Status|—|—|30|||Beautiful|2|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM17|Protect|Normal|Status|—|—|10|||Cute|2|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM18|Rain Dance|Water|Status|—|—|5|||Beautiful|1|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM21|Frustration|Normal|Physical|—|100|20|||Cute|2|3}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM23|Smack Down|Rock|Physical|50|100|15|||Tough|2|1}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM26|Earthquake|Ground|Physical|100|100|10|||Tough|2|1}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM27|Return|Normal|Physical|—|100|20|||Cute|4|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM28|Dig|Ground|Physical|80|100|10|||Tough|2|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM31|Brick Break|Fighting|Physical|75|100|15||'''|Cool|4|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM32|Double Team|Normal|Status|—|—|15|||Cool|1|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM35|Flamethrower|Fire|Special|90|100|15|||Beautiful|4|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM38|Fire Blast|Fire|Special|110|85|5|||Beautiful|1|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM39|Rock Tomb|Rock|Physical|60|95|15|||Clever|3|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM42|Facade|Normal|Physical|70|100|20|||Cute|2|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM44|Rest|Psychic|Status|—|—|10|||Cute|1|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM45|Attract|Normal|Status|—|100|15|||Cute|2|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM46|Thief|Dark|Physical|60|100|25|||Tough|1|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM47|Low Sweep|Fighting|Physical|65|100|20||'''|Clever|2|3}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM48|Round|Normal|Special|60|100|15|||Beautiful|2|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM52|Focus Blast|Fighting|Special|120|70|5||'''|Cool|4|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM56|Fling|Dark|Physical|—|100|10|||Cute|3|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM59|Incinerate|Fire|Special|60|100|15|||Tough|3|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM66|Payback|Dark|Physical|50|100|10|||Tough|2|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM67|Retaliate|Normal|Physical|70|100|5|||Cool|3|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM78|Bulldoze|Ground|Physical|60|100|20|||Tough|2|2}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM80|Rock Slide|Rock|Physical|75|90|10|||Tough|2|2}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM84|Poison Jab|Poison|Physical|80|100|20|||Tough|4|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM87|Swagger|Normal|Status|—|90|15|||Cute|3|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM88|Sleep Talk|Normal|Status|—|—|10|||Cute|1|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM90|Substitute|Normal|Status|—|—|10|||Cute|2|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM94|Rock Smash|Fighting|Physical|40|100|15|{{sup/6|XY}}|'''|Tough|4|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM94|Secret Power|Normal|Physical|70|100|20|{{sup/6|ORAS}}||Clever|1|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM98|Power-Up Punch|Fighting|Physical|40|100|20||'''|Tough|1|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM100|Confide|Normal|Status|—|—|20|||Cute|3|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|HM04|Strength|Normal|Physical|80|100|15|||Tough|4|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|HM06|Rock Smash|Fighting|Physical|40|100|15|{{sup/6|ORAS}}|'''|Tough|4|0}}
{{learnlist/tmf/6|Machoke|Fighting|Fighting|1}}

====By {{pkmn|breeding}}====
{{learnlist/breedh/6|Machoke|Fighting|Fighting|2|xy=n}}
{{learnlist/breed6|{{MSP|107|Hitmonchan}}|Bullet Punch|Steel|Physical|40|100|30|||Tough|3|0}}
{{learnlist/breed6|{{MSP|106|Hitmonlee}}{{MSP|107|Hitmonchan}}{{MSP|237|Hitmontop}}{{MSP|296|Makuhita}}{{MSP|297|Hariyama}}{{MSP|391|Monferno}} {{MSP|392|Infernape}}{{MSP|448|Lucario}}{{MSP|539|Sawk}}|Close Combat|Fighting|Physical|120|100|5||'''|Tough|6|0}}
{{learnlist/breed6|{{MSP|107|Hitmonchan}}{{MSP|237|Hitmontop}}{{MSP|448|Lucario}}{{MSP|539|Sawk}}|Counter|Fighting|Physical|—|100|20|||Tough|2|0}}
{{learnlist/breed6|{{MSP|122|Mr. Mime}}{{MSP|701|Hawlucha}}|Encore|Normal|Status|—|100|5|||Cute|2|0}}
{{learnlist/breed6|{{MSP|107|Hitmonchan}}{{MSP|466|Electivire}}{{MSP|126|Magmar}}{{MSP|467|Magmortar}}{{MSP|308|Medicham}}|Fire Punch|Fire|Physical|75|100|15|||Tough|4|0}}
{{learnlist/breed6|{{MSP|296|Makuhita}}{{MSP|297|Hariyama}}|Heavy Slam|Steel|Status|—|100|10|||Tough|3|0}}
{{learnlist/breed6|{{MSP|107|Hitmonchan}}{{MSP|308|Medicham}}|Ice Punch|Ice|Physical|75|100|15|||Beautiful|4|0}}
{{learnlist/breed6|{{MSP|066|Machop}}{{MSP|067|Machoke}}{{MSP|068|Machamp}}{{MSP|296|Makuhita}}{{MSP|297|Hariyama}}{{MSP|302|Sableye}}|Knock Off|Dark|Physical|65|100|25|||Clever|2|3}}
{{learnlist/breed6|{{MSP|096|Drowzee}}{{MSP|097|Hypno}}{{MSP|106|Hitmonlee}}{{MSP|122|Mr. Mime}}{{MSP|307|Meditite}}{{MSP|308|Medicham}} {{MSP|619|Mienfoo}}{{MSP|620|Mienshao}}|Meditate|Psychic|Status|—|—|40|||Beautiful|1|0}}
{{learnlist/breed6|{{MSP|307|Meditite}}{{MSP|308|Medicham}}|Power Trick|Psychic|Status|—|—|10|||Clever|2|0}}
{{learnlist/breed6|{{MSP|107|Hitmonchan}}{{MSP|237|Hitmontop}}{{MSP|122|Mr. Mime}}{{MSP|448|Lucario}}{{MSP|539|Sawk}}{{MSP|619|Mienfoo}}|Quick Guard|Fighting|Status|—|—|15|||Cool|2|0}}
{{learnlist/breed6|{{MSP|106|Hitmonlee}}{{MSP|237|Hitmontop}}|Rolling Kick|Fighting|Physical|60|85|15||'''|Cool|4|0}}
{{learnlist/breed6|{{MSP|296|Makuhita}}{{MSP|297|Hariyama}}|Smelling Salts|Normal|Physical|70|100|10|||Tough|3|0}}
{{learnlist/breed6|{{MSP|107|Hitmonchan}}{{MSP|125|Electabuzz}}{{MSP|466|Electivire}}{{MSP|467|Magmortar}}{{MSP|308|Medicham}}|Thunder Punch|Electric|Physical|75|100|15|||Cool|4|0}}
{{learnlist/breed6|{{MSP|122|Mr. Mime}}{{MSP|574|Gothita}}{{MSP|575|Gothorita}}{{MSP|576|Gothitelle}}|Tickle|Normal|Status|—|100|20|||Cute|3|0}}
{{learnlist/breedf/6|Machoke|Fighting|Fighting|2}}

====By [[Move Tutor|tutoring]]====
{{learnlist/tutorh/6|Machoke|Fighting|Fighting|2|xy=n}}
{{learnlist/tutor6|Dual Chop|Dragon|Physical|40|90|15|||no|yes|Tough|2|1}}
{{learnlist/tutor6|Fire Punch|Fire|Physical|75|100|15|||no|yes|Tough|4|0}}
{{learnlist/tutor6|Focus Punch|Fighting|Physical|150|100|20||'''|no|yes|Tough|2|0}}
{{learnlist/tutor6|Helping Hand|Normal|Status|—|—|20|||no|yes|Clever|4|0}}
{{learnlist/tutor6|Ice Punch|Ice|Physical|75|100|15|||no|yes|Beautiful|4|0}}
{{learnlist/tutor6|Knock Off|Dark|Physical|65|100|25|||no|yes|Clever|2|3}}
{{learnlist/tutor6|Low Kick|Fighting|Physical|—|100|20||'''|no|yes|Tough|1|0}}
{{learnlist/tutor6|Role Play|Psychic|Status|—|—|10|||no|yes|Cute|1|0}}
{{learnlist/tutor6|Snore|Normal|Special|50|100|15|||no|yes|Cute|4|0}}
{{learnlist/tutor6|Superpower|Fighting|Physical|120|100|5||'''|no|yes|Tough|6|0}}
{{learnlist/tutor6|Thunder Punch|Electric|Physical|75|100|15|||no|yes|Cool|4|0}}
{{learnlist/tutorf/6|Machoke|Fighting|Fighting|2}}

====By a prior [[evolution]]====
{{learnlist/prevoh/6|Machoke|Fighting|Fighting|1|xy=n}}
{{learnlist/prevo6null}}
{{learnlist/prevof/6|Machoke|Fighting|Fighting|1}}

===Side game data===
{{Spindata/Head|type=Fighting}}
{{Spindata/Pinball|col=2|type=Fighting|ndex=067|acquisition=Evolve|evolved=yes}}
{{Spindata/PinballRS|col=2|type=Fighting|ndex=067|acquisition=Evolve|evolved=yes}}
{{Spindata/Trozei|col=2|type=Fighting|ndex=067|rarity=Rare}}
|-
{{Spindata/MDRB|col=6|type=Fighting|ndex=067
|body=1
|rate=-19
|area=Mt. Discipline
|P1=If it's all about power, no one gets the better of me!
|P2=This isn't looking good. My health is down by half.
|P3=I'm useless... There's not an ounce of power left...
|PL=Leveled! I can feel the power welling up!
}}
|-
{{Spindata/MDTDS|col=6|type=Fighting|ndex=067
|body=1
|rate=-4.5
|IQ=D
}}
|-
{{Spindata/Ranger|col=6|type=Fighting
|group=Fighting
|assist=Fighting
|fieldpower=2
|field=Crush
|loop=8
|MinEXP=52
|MaxEXP=62
|browser=Machoke takes pride in its strong body. It has no trouble crushing big Boulders.
}}
|-
{{Spindata/Ranger SoA|col=6|type=Fighting
|group=Fighting
|assist=Fighting
|field=Tackle
|fieldpower=2
|browser=It attacks by throwing punches and launching shock waves.
}}
|-
{{Spindata/Rumble|col=3|type=Fighting
|att=3
|def=3
|speed=3
}}
{{Spindata/RumbleBlast|col=3|type=Fighting
|att=3
|def=3
|speed=3
}}
|-
{{Spindata/Conquest|col=6|type=Fighting|ndex=067
|HP=3
|atk=3
|def=2
|spd=2
|range=3
|move=Wake-Up Slap
|ability1=Guts
|ability2=Thrust
|ability3=Bodyguard
|evo=Evolves from {{p|Machop}} when its Attack is 86 or higher Evolves into {{p|Machamp}} when it has a link of 60% or higher, after knocking out a [[Warrior]]'s Pokémon in a manner that allows recruitment
|link={{DL|List of Pokémon Conquest characters|Isa}}, {{DL|List of Pokémon Conquest characters|Masatoshi}}, and {{DL|List of Pokémon Conquest characters|Tadatsune}}
}}
|-
{{Spindata/Battle Trozei|col=3|type=Fighting|ndex=067
|power=2
}}
{{Spindata/Shuffle|col=3|type=Fighting|ndex=067|num=344
|min=60
|max=80
|raisemaxlevel=0
|skill=Stabilize
|skilldesc=Occasionally erases one of the foe's disruptions on the board.
}}
|-
{{Spindata/GO|col=6|type=Fighting|ndex=067
|hatch=N/A
|evocandy=100
|stamina=160
|attack=154
|defense=144
|fast={{m|Low Kick}}, {{m|Karate Chop}}
|special={{m|Submission}}, {{m|Brick Break}}, {{m|Cross Chop}}
}}
|}

===Evolution===
{{Evobox-3
|type1=Fighting
|pictype=art
|no1=066
|name1=Machop
|type1-1=Fighting
|evo1={{bag|Rare Candy}} {{color2|000|Level|Level 28}}
|no2=067
|name2=Machoke
|type1-2=Fighting
|evo2={{bag|Pal Pad}} {{color2|000|Trade}}
|no3=068
|name3=Machamp
|type1-3=Fighting}}

===Sprites===
{{Spritebox/Header|type=Fighting}}
{{Spritebox/1|ndex=067}}
{{Spritebox/2|ndex=067}}
{{Spritebox/3|ndex=067}}
{{Spritebox/4|ndex=067}}
{{Spritebox/5|ndex=067}}
{{Spritebox/6|ndex=067}}
{{Spritebox/Footer|067|Machoke}}

==Trivia==
* In the [[Pokémon Red and Green beta|Pokémon Red and Blue beta]], Machoke was originally known as "Kung-Foo". This name is a corruption of ''kung fu'', a Chinese martial art.
* In [[The Official Pokémon Handbook]], Machoke is described as being extremely narcissistic; "Machoke, [...]likes its own body way too much. Sometimes it's too busy looking at itself in the mirror to train", which is exactly the opposite of the description given in Pokémon Stadium; "Although it is incredibly strong, it is always modest".
* Machoke's belt looks very similar to the Winner's Belt Prop in {{game|Black and White|s}}.

===Origin===
Machoke appears to be based on a {{wp|bodybuilder}} or wrestler with some reptilian traits.

====Name origin====
Machoke may be a combination of ''macho'' ({{wp|Spanish (language)|Spanish}} for ''male'', ''overly masculine'' or ''chauvinist'') and ''choke''. ''Macho'' has come to mean tough or masculine in English. Akin to {{p|Mr. Mime}}, the masculine attribute has no reflection on gender assignment, as both species can be male and female; however, {{p|Machop}}'s evolutionary line does have a 3:1 male:female ratio, making the species predominantly—but not entirely—male.

Goriky is a corruption of 剛力 ''gōriki'' ({{wp|Hercules|herculean}} strength).

==In other languages==
{{Other languages|type=fighting|type2=fighting
|ja=ゴーリキー ''Goriky''|jameaning=Corruption of {{tt|剛力 ''gōriki''|herculean strength}}
|fr=Machopeur|frmeaning=From ''Macho'' and ''{{tt|choppeur|someone who nabs people}}'' or ''{{tt|peur|fear}}''
|es=Machoke|esmeaning=Same as English name
|de=Maschock|demeaning=From ''Macho'' and ''{{tt|Schock|shock}}''
|it=Machoke|itmeaning=Same as English name
|ko=근육몬 ''Geunyukmon''|komeaning=From {{tt|근육 ''geun'yuk''|muscle}} and {{tt|''monster''|몬스터}}
|zh_yue=大力 ''Daaihlihk''|zh_yuemeaning=Literally "Great strength"
|zh_cmn=豪力 ''Háolì''|zh_cmnmeaning=Literally "Heroic strength"
|hi=मचोक ''Machoke''|himeaning=Transcription of English name
|ru=Мачоук ''Machouk''|rumeaning=Transcription of English name
}}
 

==Related articles==
* [[Blue's Machoke]]

==External links==
* {{wp|Machop, Machoke, and Machamp|Article on Wikipedia}}

==Notes==
<references />

{{PokémonPrevNext/Head|type=Fighting}}
{{PokémonPrevNext/Pokémon|type=Fighting|prevnum=066|prev=Machop|nextnum=068|next=Machamp}}
|}
{{-}}
{{Project Pokédex notice}}
[[Category:Pokémon that evolve through trading]]

[[de:Maschock]]
[[fr:Machopeur]]
[[it:Machoke]]
[[ja:ゴーリキー]]
[[pl:Machoke]]
[[zh:豪力]]

Machoke (Pokémon)

2016-09-10T20:11:18Z

Ericss:

{{PokémonPrevNext/Head|type=Fighting}}
{{PokémonPrevNext/GO|species=Machoke}}
{{PokémonPrevNext/Pokémon|type=Fighting|prevnum=066|prev=Machop|nextnum=068|next=Machamp|round=none}}
{{PokémonPrevNext/Disambig|species=Machoke}}
|}
{{Pokémon Infobox
|name=Machoke
|jname=ゴーリキー
|jtranslit=Gōrikī
|tmname=Goriky
|ndex=067
|oldjdex=141
|jdex=143
|hdex=074
|hdex6=076
|fbrow=081
|sdex=041
|karea=Coastal
|kdex=058
|abrow=162
|typebox=1
|type1=Fighting
|category=Superpower
|height-ftin=4'11"
|height-m=1.5
|weight-lbs=155.4
|weight-kg=70.5
|abilityn=d
|ability1=Guts
|ability2=No Guard
|abilityd=Steadfast
|egggroupn=1
|egggroup1=Human-Like
|eggcycles=21
|evtotal=2
|evat=2
|expyield=142
|oldexp=146
|lv100exp=1,059,860
|gendercode=63
|color=Gray
|catchrate=90
|body=12
|pokefordex=machoke
|generation=1
|friendship=70
}}
'''Machoke''' ([[List of Japanese Pokémon names|Japanese]]: '''ゴーリキー''' ''Goriky'') is a {{type|Fighting}} Pokémon.

It [[Evolution|evolves]] from {{p|Machop}} starting at [[level]] 28 and evolves into {{p|Machamp}} when [[trade]]d.

==Biology==
Machoke is a bipedal, humanoid Pokémon covered in gray skin. It has a vaguely reptilian face with a short snout, narrow red eyes, and four pointed teeth visible inside its mouth. Two of these teeth are in the upper jaw, while two are in the lower jaw. On top of its head are three, light brown ridges. Its arms are muscular with dark red, vertical stripes on them, resembling places where the skin has stretched apart because it can barely contain its huge muscles. It possesses large pectoral muscles that protrude slightly over its belt. The lower part of its body has black markings that resemble briefs. It is always wearing a black and golden power-save belt that regulates Machoke's strength.

Machoke is a Pokémon of immense strength. Its muscles are as hard as steel, and it is capable of lifting extremely heavy objects with only one finger. In spite of this, it is modest and often helps people with manual labor. It can be found in the {{DL|List of Pokémon by habitat|Mountain Pokémon|mountains}}, where it trains daily.

==In the anime==
[[File:Korrina Machoke.png|250px|left|thumb|Machoke in the anime]]
===Major appearances===
Two Machoke were present on the expedition crew in ''[[EP089|Shell Shock!]]''. They rescued {{Ash}}, {{an|Misty}}, {{Tracey}} and the crew from a runaway boulder heading for them.

In ''[[EP136|Chikorita's Big Upset]]'', one was part of a group of {{type|Fighting}} Pokémon that roamed the streets of the city as a gang.

In ''[[EP200|Turning Over A New Bayleef]]'', one owned by [[Haruno]] helped her with her gardening.

[[Chuck]] used a Machoke for the Gym Battle in ''[[EP209|Machoke, Machoke Man]]''. Chuck's Machoke was defeated by [[Ash's Bayleef]].

A Machoke appeared with a Machop in ''[[EP265|Pop Goes The Sneasel]]''. These Pokémon were protecting the flame of {{p|Ho-Oh}} both with a {{p|Sneasel}}.

A Machoke was used by the {{OBP|captain|EP274}} in ''[[EP274|Hoenn Alone!]]''.

Emily had a {{p|Machop}}, Machoke, and {{p|Machamp}} chase after her runaway {{p|Psyduck}} in ''[[AG140|Sitting Psyduck]]''.

Several Machoke and Machamp appeared in ''[[DP057|Bibarel Gnaws Best!]]'' as construction workers.

[[Maylene]] also owns a Machoke which appeared in ''[[DP066|Lost Leader Strategy!]]''.

{{si|Kenny}} used a Machoke in the [[Appeal|Performance Stage]] of the {{to|Sandalstraw}} {{pkmn|Contest}} in ''[[DP123|Old Rivals, New Tricks!]]''.

A Machoke appeared in ''[[XY044|Showdown at the Shalour Gym!]]'' under the ownership of [[Korrina]].

===Minor appearances===
Machoke has had many appearances, many more than its evolved and pre-evolved forms. It can usually be seen in {{wp|Dojo}}s and on construction sites.

Machoke made its debut in ''[[EP029|The Punchy Pokémon]]'' where it fought against [[Ash's Primeape]].

A Machoke appeared in a flashback in ''[[EP037|Ditto's Mysterious Mansion]]''.

In ''[[EP042|Showdown at Dark City]]'', Machoke is one of the Pokémon owned by one of the {{pkmn|Trainer}}s at [[Yas Gym]].

Machoke also appeared in ''[[EP043|The March of the Exeggutor Squad]]''.

A Machoke appeared in ''[[EP052|Princess vs. Princess]]'' competing in the {{DL|Princess Festival|Queen of the Princess Festival contest}}.

A Machoke was seen in a Pokémon Lab in ''[[EP58|Riddle Me This]]''.

A Machoke under the ownership of [[Stella]] appeared in ''[[EP064|It's Mr. Mime Time]]''.

In ''[[EP090|Stage Fight!]]'', a Machoke was part of a showboat stage show along with other Pokémon.

[[Danny]] owned a Machoke in ''[[EP093|Navel Maneuvers]]'', which helped him carve a sled in order to compete with it. It reappeared in a flashback in ''[[EP111|Hello, Pummelo!]]''.

Machoke also appeared in the second [[original series]] {{pkmn|movie}}, ''[[M02|The Power of One]]''.

A Machoke was seen in a dojo in ''[[EP140|Wired for Battle!]]''.

A Machoke was one of the Pokémon seen at the [[Pokémon Swap Meet]] in ''[[EP146|Tricks of the Trade]]''.

[[Trixie]] has a Machoke which is used in a circus in ''[[EP153|Love, Totodile Style]]''.

[[Dr. Anna]] owns a Machoke which she uses in her health clinic for massages in ''[[EP165|Hassle in the Castle]]''.

{{OBP|Kenzo|EP166}} owned a Machoke in ''[[EP166|Two Hits and a Miss]]''.

A Machoke appeared in ''[[EP169|Beauty and the Breeder]]'' where it participated in {{pkmn|Beauty Contest|a Pokémon breeding competition}}.

A Machoke appeared in ''[[EP170|A Better Pill to Swallow]]'' as a fantasized Pokémon.

''[[EP173|Wobbu-Palooza!]]'' featured a Machoke belonging to a [[Wobbuffet Festival crashers|Festival Crasher]].

A Machoke was part of a Pokémon street festival in ''[[EP201|Doin' What Comes Natu-rally]]''.

A Machoke was one of the Pokémon defeated by [[Wings Alexander]]'s then Hoothoot as seen in his flashback in ''[[EP223|Throwing in the Noctowl]]''.

A Machoke was seen training alongside its Trainer in ''[[EP262|You're a Star, Larvitar!]]''.

A Machoke made an appearance in ''[[SS003|We're No Angels!]]'' and in the opening of ''[[M07|Destiny Deoxys]]''.

A Machoke was also owned by a [[demolition crew]] (which was changed into a construction crew due to [[Ritchie]] changing the past) in ''[[SS013|Celebi and Joy!]]''.

It was revealed in ''[[DP066|Lost Leader Strategy!]]'' that [[Maylene]] had a Machoke that was used in a Gym battle against [[Paul]] and in ''[[DP068|A Triple Fighting Chance!]]'' wherein Machoke was defeated by [[Ash's Staravia]].

A Machoke appeared in ''[[DP092|A Lean Mean Team Rocket Machine!]]'' on a fitness program.

A {{pkmn|Trainer}}'s Machoke appeared in ''[[DP160|A Marathon Rivalry!]]'' participating in the [[Pokéathlon]] held in [[Camellia Town]].

===Pokédex entries===
{{Animedexheader|Sinnoh}}
{{Animedexbody|DP068|Machoke|Dawn's Pokédex|Machoke, the Superpower Pokémon. With enough strength to lift a giant truck with one hand, Machoke are often used to extremely heavy work.}}
{{Animedexfooter/Pokémon|''Diamond & Pearl''|Sinnoh}}

==In the manga==
===In the Pokémon Adventures manga===
[[File:Machoke Adventures.png|thumb|200px|Machoke in [[Pokémon Adventures]]]]
{{main|Blue's Machoke}}

Machoke debuts in its own round, ''[[PS002|Bulbasaur, Come Home!]]''. Here, it protected the [[Viridian Gym]] from intruders, attacking {{adv|Red}} and {{adv|Professor Oak}}, but [[Saur|Bulbasaur]] defeated it with a {{m|SolarBeam}}.

{{adv|Blue}} also had a Machoke that evolved into [[Blue's Machamp|Machamp]] under Red's care, but was traded back afterwards in ''[[PS018|A Tale of Ninetales]]''.

Machoke was seen again in {{PAV|18}} as one of [[Brawly]]'s Pokémon; it is unconfirmed if this Machoke evolved from the Machop he had in {{PAV|16}}. Machoke attempted to fight [[Blaise]]'s fiery illusions in {{PAV|20}} at the [[Lilycove Museum]], but failed miserably and ended up getting burned. His {{p|Hariyama}} succeeded in doing so, however.

Three Machoke were helping X's family move into their new home in [[Vaniville Town]] in the {{chap|X & Y}}.

===In the Pokémon Pocket Monsters manga===
{{OBP|Red|Pocket Monsters}} owns a Machamp which he caught after it evolved from Machoke in ''[[PM008|Catch That Pokémon Thief!!]]''.

{{OBP|Giovanni|Pocket Monsters}}'s Machoke was used in the Gym battle against Red in ''[[PM031|Get The Last Badge!!]]''.

===In the Pokémon Diamond and Pearl Adventure! manga===
A {{tc|Galactic Grunt}} uses a Machoke in ''[[DPA05|Find Munchlax!!]]''.

[[Maylene]] has a Machoke which was only seen getting defeated by [[Hareta's Piplup]].

==In the TCG==
{{main|Machoke (TCG)}}

==Game data==
===Pokédex entries===
{{Dex/Header|type=fighting}}
{{Dex/Gen|gen=I}}
{{Dex/Entry2|v=Red|v2=Blue|t2=FFF|entry=Its muscular body is so powerful, it must wear a power save belt to be able to regulate its motions.}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=Yellow|entry=The belt around its waist holds back its energy. Without it, this Pokémon would be unstoppable.}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=Stadium|t=FFF|color=000|entry=Although it is incredibly strong, it is always modest. It restrains its strength with a power-save belt.}}
|}
|}
{{Dex/Gen|gen=II}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=Gold|entry=It always goes at its full power, but this very tough and durable Pokémon never gets tired.}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=Silver|entry=The muscles covering its body teem with power. Even when still, it exudes an amazing sense of strength.}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=Crystal|entry=This tough Pokémon always stays in the zone. Its muscles become thicker after every battle.}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=Stadium 2|t=FFF|color=000|entry=It always goes at its full power, but this very tough and durable Pokémon never gets tired.}}
|}
|}
{{Dex/Gen|gen=III}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=Ruby|t=FFF|entry=Machoke's thoroughly toned muscles possess the hardness of {{wp|steel}}. This Pokémon has so much strength, it can easily hold aloft a sumo wrestler on just one finger.}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=Sapphire|t=FFF|entry=Machoke undertakes bodybuilding every day even as it helps people with tough, physically demanding labor. On its days off, this Pokémon heads to the fields and mountains to exercise and train.}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=Emerald|t=FFF|entry=A belt is worn by a Machoke to keep its overwhelming power under control. Because it is so dangerous, no one has ever removed the belt.}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=FireRed|entry=Its formidable body never gets tired. It helps people by doing work such as the moving of heavy goods.}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=LeafGreen|entry=Its muscular body is so powerful, it must wear a power-save belt to be able to regulate its motions.}}
|}
|}
{{Dex/Gen|gen=IV}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=Diamond|entry=Machoke's boundless power is very dangerous, so it wears a belt that suppresses its energy.}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=Pearl|entry=It can lift a dump truck with one hand. Using that power, it helps people with heavy jobs.}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=Platinum|entry=It happily carries heavy cargo to toughen up. It willingly does hard work for people.}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=HeartGold|entry=It always goes at its full power, but this very tough and durable Pokémon never gets tired.}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=SoulSilver|entry=The muscles covering its body teem with power. Even when still, it exudes an amazing sense of strength.}}
|}
|}
{{Dex/Gen|gen=V}}
{{Dex/Entry2|v=Black|v2=White|t=FFF|entry=It happily carries heavy cargo to toughen up. It willingly does hard work for people.}}
{{Dex/Entry2|v=Black 2|v2=White 2|t=FFF|entry=It happily carries heavy cargo to toughen up. It willingly does hard work for people.}}
|}
|}
{{Dex/Gen|gen=VI}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=X|t=FFF|entry=Its muscular body is so powerful, it must wear a power-save belt to be able to regulate its motions.}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=Y|entry=It can lift a dump truck with one hand. Using that power, it helps people with heavy jobs.}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=Omega Ruby|t=FFF|entry=Machoke's thoroughly toned muscles possess the hardness of {{wp|steel}}. This Pokémon has so much strength, it can easily hold aloft a sumo wrestler on just one finger.}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=Alpha Sapphire|t=FFF|entry=Machoke undertakes bodybuilding every day even as it helps people with tough, physically demanding labor. On its days off, this Pokémon heads to the fields and mountains to exercise and train.}}
|}
|}
{{Dex/Footer}}

===Game locations===
{{Availability/Header|type=fighting}}
{{Availability/Gen|gen=I}}
{{Availability/Entry2|v=Red|v2=Blue|t2=fff|area={{ka|Victory Road}}}}
{{Availability/Entry1|v=Blue|ex=(Japan)|t=fff|link=Pokémon Blue Version (Japanese)|area={{ka|Victory Road}}}}
{{Availability/Entry1|v=Yellow|area={{ka|Victory Road}} [[In-game trade#Yellow|Trade]] {{p|Cubone}} on {{rt|5|Kanto}}{{tt|*|immediately evolves into Machamp, but Pokédex data is entered}}}}
|}
|}
{{Availability/Gen|gen=II}}
{{Availability/Entry2|v=Gold|v2=Silver|area=[[Rock Tunnel]], [[Mt. Mortar]]}}
{{Availability/Entry1|v=Crystal|area=[[Mt. Mortar]], [[Mt. Silver]], [[Rock Tunnel]]}}
|}
|}
{{Availability/Gen|gen=III}}
{{Availability/Entry2|v=Ruby|v2=Sapphire|t=fff|t2=fff|area=[[Evolution|Evolve]] {{p|Machop}}}}
{{Availability/Entry1|v=Emerald|t=fff|area=[[Evolution|Evolve]] {{p|Machop}}}}
{{Availability/Entry2|v=FireRed|v2=LeafGreen|area=[[Cerulean Cave]], [[Mt. Ember]], {{ka|Victory Road}}}}
{{Availability/Entry1/None|v=Colosseum}}
{{Availability/Entry1/None|v=XD|link=Pokémon XD: Gale of Darkness}}
|}
|}
{{Availability/Gen|gen=IV}}
{{Availability/Entry2|v=Diamond|v2=Pearl|area=[[Route]]s {{rtn|210|Sinnoh}}, {{rtn|211|Sinnoh}}, {{rtn|216|Sinnoh}}, {{rtn|217|Sinnoh}}, {{rtn|225|Sinnoh}}, and {{rtn|226|Sinnoh}}, [[Stark Mountain]], [[Mt. Coronet]], {{si|Victory Road}}}}
{{Availability/Entry1|v=Platinum|area=[[Route]]s {{rtn|210|Sinnoh}}, {{rtn|211|Sinnoh}}, {{rtn|225|Sinnoh}}, and {{rtn|226|Sinnoh}}, [[Mt. Coronet]]}}
{{Availability/Entry2|v=HeartGold|v2=SoulSilver|area=[[Cliff Cave]], [[Mt. Mortar]], [[Cerulean Cave]], [[Rock Tunnel]], {{safari|Johto}}}}
{{Availability/Entry1|v=Pal Park|color=D4B5A7|link=Pal Park|area={{DL|List of Pokémon by Pal Park location|Mountain}}}}
|}
|}
{{Availability/Gen|gen=V}}
{{Availability/Entry1/None|v=Black|area=[[Trade]], {{pkmn2|Event}}}}
{{Availability/Entry1|v=White|area=[[Evolution|Evolve]] {{p|Machop}}}}
{{Availability/Entry2/None|v=Black 2|v2=White 2}}
|}
|}
{{Availability/Gen|gen=VI}}
{{Availability/Entry2|v=X|v2=Y|t=fff|area=[[Friend Safari]] ([[Friend Safari#Fighting-type Safari|Fighting]])}}
{{Availability/Entry2|v=Omega Ruby|v2=Alpha Sapphire|t=fff|t2=fff|area=[[Evolution|Evolve]] {{p|Machop}}}}
|}
|}
{{Availability/Footer}}

====In side games====
{{Availability/Header|type=Fighting}}
{{Availability/Gen|gen=I}}
{{Availability/Entry1|1|v=Pinball|color={{red color}}|area=[[Evolution|Evolve]] {{p|Machop}}}}
|}
|}
{{Availability/Gen|gen=II}}
{{Availability/NA/Side|gen=II}}
|}
|}
{{Availability/Gen|gen=III}}
{{Availability/Entry1|v=Pinball: R&S|link=Pokémon Pinball: Ruby & Sapphire|color={{ruby color}}|t=FFF|area=[[Evolution|Evolve]] {{p|Machop}}}}
{{Availability/Entry1|v=Trozei!|color={{yellow color}}|area=[[Secret Storage 15]], [[Mr. Who's Den]]}}
{{Availability/Entry2|v=MD Red|v2=MD Blue|link=Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Red Rescue Team and Blue Rescue Team|area=[[Fiery Field]] (17F-25F), [[Buried Relic]] (80F-87F)}}
{{Availability/Entry1|v=Ranger|link=Pokémon Ranger (game)|area=[[Dusk Factory]]}}
|}
|}
{{Availability/Gen|gen=IV}}
{{Availability/Entry2|v=MD Time|v2=MD Darkness|link=Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Time and Explorers of Darkness|area=[[Aegis Cave]] (Rock B2-B3, Steel B1-B3, Pit B1-B3)}}
{{Availability/Entry1|v=MD Sky|link=Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Sky|area=[[Aegis Cave]] (Rock B2-B3, Steel B1-B3, Pit B1-B3)}}
{{Availability/Entry1|v=Ranger: SoA|link=Pokémon Ranger: Shadows of Almia|color={{SoA color}}|area=[[Cargo Ship]]}}
{{Availability/Entry1|v=Rumble|color={{fire color}}|area=[[Rocky Cave]] (Normal Mode C & A, Advanced Mode B & A)</small}}
|}
|}
{{Availability/Gen|gen=V}}
{{Availability/Entry1|1|v=Rumble Blast|color={{fire color}}|area=Canyon: [[Sunny Seashore]]}}
{{Availability/Entry1|1|v=Conquest|color={{silver color}}|area=[[Evolution|Evolve]] {{p|Machop}}}}
{{Availability/Entry1|1|v=Rumble U|color={{fire color}}|area=[[Melodious Woodland#A Lively Concert|Melodious Woodland: A Lively Concert]]}}
|}
|}
{{Availability/Gen|gen=VI}}
{{Availability/Entry1|1|v=Battle Trozei|color={{defense color}}|area=[[Safari Jungle#Monday Stage 2|Safari Jungle: Stage 2]]{{dotw|Mo}}}}
{{Availability/Entry1|1|v=Shuffle|color={{beauty color}}|area=[[Roseus Center|Roseus Center: Stage 247]]}}
{{Availability/Entry1|1|v=Rumble World|color={{fire color}}|area=[[Origin Hideaway#Super-Aura Test Lab|Origin Hideaway: Super-Aura Test Lab]] (All Areas, Entrance Boss)}}
|}
|}
{{Availability/Footer}}

====In events====
{{eventAvail/h|type=fighting}}
{{eventAvail|{{gameabbrev3|FRLG}}|Pokémon Trade and Battle Day Machoke|English|United States|38|September 25, 2004|link=List of Trade and Battle Day event Pokémon distributions#Machoke}}
{{eventAvail|{{gameabbrev5|BW}}|Trade for Evolution! Machoke|Japanese|Japan|30|October 10 to November 28, 2010|link=List of local Japanese event Pokémon distributions in Generation V#Machoke}}
|}

===Held items===
{{HeldItems
|type=Fighting
|rby1=Berry|rby1type=Berry (Generation II)|rby1rar=100|rby1image=no
|frlg1=Focus Band|frlg1type=In-battle effect item|frlg1rar=5
|event1=Fighting Gem|event1type=Gem
}}

===Stats===
====Base stats====
{{BaseStats with RBY
|HP= 80
|Attack=100
|Defense=70
|SpAtk= 50
|SpDef= 60
|Special=50
|Speed= 45
|type=Fighting
}}

====Pokéathlon stats====
{{Pokéthlon
|type=Fighting
|Speed=2
|SpeedMax=2
|Power=4
|PowerMax=4
|Technique=2
|TechniqueMax=3
|Stamina=3
|StaminaMax=4
|Jump=2
|JumpMax=2
}}

===Type effectiveness===
{{TypeEffectiveness
|type1=Fighting
|Normal= 100
|Fighting=100
|Flying= 200
|Poison= 100
|Ground= 100
|Rock= 50
|Bug= 50
|Ghost= 100
|Steel= 100
|Fire= 100
|Water= 100
|Grass= 100
|Electric=100
|Psychic= 200
|Ice= 100
|Dragon= 100
|Dark= 50
|Fairy=200}}

===Learnset===
====By [[Level|leveling up]]====
{{learnlist/levelh/6|Machoke|Fighting|Fighting|1|XY|ORAS|xy=n}}
{{learnlist/levelVI|1|1|Low Kick|Fighting|Physical|—|100|20||'''|Tough|1|0}}
{{learnlist/levelVI|1|1|Leer|Normal|Status|—|100|30|||Cool|2|1}}
{{learnlist/levelVI|1|1|Focus Energy|Normal|Status|—|—|30|||Cool|1|0}}
{{learnlist/levelVI|1|1|Karate Chop|Fighting|Physical|50|100|25||'''|Tough|4|0}}
{{learnlist/levelVI|7|3|Focus Energy|Normal|Status|—|—|30|||Cool|1|0}}
{{learnlist/levelVI|10|7|Karate Chop|Fighting|Physical|50|100|25||'''|Tough|4|0}}
{{learnlist/levelVI|19|9|Foresight|Normal|Status|—|—|40|||Clever|2|1}}
{{learnlist/levelVI|13|13|Low Sweep|Fighting|Physical|65|100|20||'''|Clever|2|3}}
{{learnlist/levelVI|22|15|Seismic Toss|Fighting|Physical|—|100|20|||Tough|3|0}}
{{learnlist/levelVI|25|19|Revenge|Fighting|Physical|60|100|10||'''|Tough|2|0}}
{{learnlist/levelVI|N/A|21|Knock Off|Dark|Physical|65|100|25|||Clever|2|3}}
{{learnlist/levelVI|32|25|Vital Throw|Fighting|Physical|70|—|10||'''|Cool|2|0}}
{{learnlist/levelVI|40|27|Wake-Up Slap|Fighting|Physical|70|100|10||'''|Tough|3|0}}
{{learnlist/levelVI|N/A|33|Dual Chop|Dragon|Physical|40|90|15|||Tough|2|1}}
{{learnlist/levelVI|36|37|Submission|Fighting|Physical|80|80|25||'''|Cool|6|0}}
{{learnlist/levelVI|N/A|43|Bulk Up|Fighting|Status|—|—|20|||Cool|1|0}}
{{learnlist/levelVI|44|47|Cross Chop|Fighting|Physical|100|80|5||'''|Cool|3|0}}
{{learnlist/levelVI|51|53|Scary Face|Normal|Status|—|100|10|||Tough|3|0}}
{{learnlist/levelVI|55|57|Dynamic Punch|Fighting|Physical|100|50|5||'''|Cool|2|1}}
{{learnlist/levelf/6|Machoke|Fighting|Fighting|1}}

====By [[TM]]/[[HM]]====
{{learnlist/tmh/6|Machoke|Fighting|Fighting|1|xy=n}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM06|Toxic|Poison|Status|—|90|10|||Clever|3|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM08|Bulk Up|Fighting|Status|—|—|20|||Cool|1|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM10|Hidden Power|Normal|Special|60|100|15|||Clever|3|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM11|Sunny Day|Fire|Status|—|—|5|||Beautiful|1|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM16|Light Screen|Psychic|Status|—|—|30|||Beautiful|2|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM17|Protect|Normal|Status|—|—|10|||Cute|2|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM18|Rain Dance|Water|Status|—|—|5|||Beautiful|1|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM21|Frustration|Normal|Physical|—|100|20|||Cute|2|3}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM23|Smack Down|Rock|Physical|50|100|15|||Tough|2|1}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM26|Earthquake|Ground|Physical|100|100|10|||Tough|2|1}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM27|Return|Normal|Physical|—|100|20|||Cute|4|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM28|Dig|Ground|Physical|80|100|10|||Tough|2|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM31|Brick Break|Fighting|Physical|75|100|15||'''|Cool|4|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM32|Double Team|Normal|Status|—|—|15|||Cool|1|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM35|Flamethrower|Fire|Special|90|100|15|||Beautiful|4|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM38|Fire Blast|Fire|Special|110|85|5|||Beautiful|1|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM39|Rock Tomb|Rock|Physical|60|95|15|||Clever|3|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM42|Facade|Normal|Physical|70|100|20|||Cute|2|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM44|Rest|Psychic|Status|—|—|10|||Cute|1|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM45|Attract|Normal|Status|—|100|15|||Cute|2|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM46|Thief|Dark|Physical|60|100|25|||Tough|1|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM47|Low Sweep|Fighting|Physical|65|100|20||'''|Clever|2|3}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM48|Round|Normal|Special|60|100|15|||Beautiful|2|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM52|Focus Blast|Fighting|Special|120|70|5||'''|Cool|4|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM56|Fling|Dark|Physical|—|100|10|||Cute|3|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM59|Incinerate|Fire|Special|60|100|15|||Tough|3|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM66|Payback|Dark|Physical|50|100|10|||Tough|2|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM67|Retaliate|Normal|Physical|70|100|5|||Cool|3|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM78|Bulldoze|Ground|Physical|60|100|20|||Tough|2|2}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM80|Rock Slide|Rock|Physical|75|90|10|||Tough|2|2}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM84|Poison Jab|Poison|Physical|80|100|20|||Tough|4|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM87|Swagger|Normal|Status|—|90|15|||Cute|3|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM88|Sleep Talk|Normal|Status|—|—|10|||Cute|1|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM90|Substitute|Normal|Status|—|—|10|||Cute|2|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM94|Rock Smash|Fighting|Physical|40|100|15|{{sup/6|XY}}|'''|Tough|4|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM94|Secret Power|Normal|Physical|70|100|20|{{sup/6|ORAS}}||Clever|1|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM98|Power-Up Punch|Fighting|Physical|40|100|20||'''|Tough|1|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM100|Confide|Normal|Status|—|—|20|||Cute|3|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|HM04|Strength|Normal|Physical|80|100|15|||Tough|4|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|HM06|Rock Smash|Fighting|Physical|40|100|15|{{sup/6|ORAS}}|'''|Tough|4|0}}
{{learnlist/tmf/6|Machoke|Fighting|Fighting|1}}

====By {{pkmn|breeding}}====
{{learnlist/breedh/6|Machoke|Fighting|Fighting|2|xy=n}}
{{learnlist/breed6|{{MSP|107|Hitmonchan}}|Bullet Punch|Steel|Physical|40|100|30|||Tough|3|0}}
{{learnlist/breed6|{{MSP|106|Hitmonlee}}{{MSP|107|Hitmonchan}}{{MSP|237|Hitmontop}}{{MSP|296|Makuhita}}{{MSP|297|Hariyama}}{{MSP|391|Monferno}} {{MSP|392|Infernape}}{{MSP|448|Lucario}}{{MSP|539|Sawk}}|Close Combat|Fighting|Physical|120|100|5||'''|Tough|6|0}}
{{learnlist/breed6|{{MSP|107|Hitmonchan}}{{MSP|237|Hitmontop}}{{MSP|448|Lucario}}{{MSP|539|Sawk}}|Counter|Fighting|Physical|—|100|20|||Tough|2|0}}
{{learnlist/breed6|{{MSP|122|Mr. Mime}}{{MSP|701|Hawlucha}}|Encore|Normal|Status|—|100|5|||Cute|2|0}}
{{learnlist/breed6|{{MSP|107|Hitmonchan}}{{MSP|466|Electivire}}{{MSP|126|Magmar}}{{MSP|467|Magmortar}}{{MSP|308|Medicham}}|Fire Punch|Fire|Physical|75|100|15|||Tough|4|0}}
{{learnlist/breed6|{{MSP|296|Makuhita}}{{MSP|297|Hariyama}}|Heavy Slam|Steel|Status|—|100|10|||Tough|3|0}}
{{learnlist/breed6|{{MSP|107|Hitmonchan}}{{MSP|308|Medicham}}|Ice Punch|Ice|Physical|75|100|15|||Beautiful|4|0}}
{{learnlist/breed6|{{MSP|066|Machop}}{{MSP|067|Machoke}}{{MSP|068|Machamp}}{{MSP|296|Makuhita}}{{MSP|297|Hariyama}}{{MSP|302|Sableye}}|Knock Off|Dark|Physical|65|100|25|||Clever|2|3}}
{{learnlist/breed6|{{MSP|096|Drowzee}}{{MSP|097|Hypno}}{{MSP|106|Hitmonlee}}{{MSP|122|Mr. Mime}}{{MSP|307|Meditite}}{{MSP|308|Medicham}} {{MSP|619|Mienfoo}}{{MSP|620|Mienshao}}|Meditate|Psychic|Status|—|—|40|||Beautiful|1|0}}
{{learnlist/breed6|{{MSP|307|Meditite}}{{MSP|308|Medicham}}|Power Trick|Psychic|Status|—|—|10|||Clever|2|0}}
{{learnlist/breed6|{{MSP|107|Hitmonchan}}{{MSP|237|Hitmontop}}{{MSP|122|Mr. Mime}}{{MSP|448|Lucario}}{{MSP|539|Sawk}}{{MSP|619|Mienfoo}}|Quick Guard|Fighting|Status|—|—|15|||Cool|2|0}}
{{learnlist/breed6|{{MSP|106|Hitmonlee}}{{MSP|237|Hitmontop}}|Rolling Kick|Fighting|Physical|60|85|15||'''|Cool|4|0}}
{{learnlist/breed6|{{MSP|296|Makuhita}}{{MSP|297|Hariyama}}|Smelling Salts|Normal|Physical|70|100|10|||Tough|3|0}}
{{learnlist/breed6|{{MSP|107|Hitmonchan}}{{MSP|125|Electabuzz}}{{MSP|466|Electivire}}{{MSP|467|Magmortar}}{{MSP|308|Medicham}}|Thunder Punch|Electric|Physical|75|100|15|||Cool|4|0}}
{{learnlist/breed6|{{MSP|122|Mr. Mime}}{{MSP|574|Gothita}}{{MSP|575|Gothorita}}{{MSP|576|Gothitelle}}|Tickle|Normal|Status|—|100|20|||Cute|3|0}}
{{learnlist/breedf/6|Machoke|Fighting|Fighting|2}}

====By [[Move Tutor|tutoring]]====
{{learnlist/tutorh/6|Machoke|Fighting|Fighting|2|xy=n}}
{{learnlist/tutor6|Dual Chop|Dragon|Physical|40|90|15|||no|yes|Tough|2|1}}
{{learnlist/tutor6|Fire Punch|Fire|Physical|75|100|15|||no|yes|Tough|4|0}}
{{learnlist/tutor6|Focus Punch|Fighting|Physical|150|100|20||'''|no|yes|Tough|2|0}}
{{learnlist/tutor6|Helping Hand|Normal|Status|—|—|20|||no|yes|Clever|4|0}}
{{learnlist/tutor6|Ice Punch|Ice|Physical|75|100|15|||no|yes|Beautiful|4|0}}
{{learnlist/tutor6|Knock Off|Dark|Physical|65|100|25|||no|yes|Clever|2|3}}
{{learnlist/tutor6|Low Kick|Fighting|Physical|—|100|20||'''|no|yes|Tough|1|0}}
{{learnlist/tutor6|Role Play|Psychic|Status|—|—|10|||no|yes|Cute|1|0}}
{{learnlist/tutor6|Snore|Normal|Special|50|100|15|||no|yes|Cute|4|0}}
{{learnlist/tutor6|Superpower|Fighting|Physical|120|100|5||'''|no|yes|Tough|6|0}}
{{learnlist/tutor6|Thunder Punch|Electric|Physical|75|100|15|||no|yes|Cool|4|0}}
{{learnlist/tutorf/6|Machoke|Fighting|Fighting|2}}

====By a prior [[evolution]]====
{{learnlist/prevoh/6|Machoke|Fighting|Fighting|1|xy=n}}
{{learnlist/prevo6null}}
{{learnlist/prevof/6|Machoke|Fighting|Fighting|1}}

===Side game data===
{{Spindata/Head|type=Fighting}}
{{Spindata/Pinball|col=2|type=Fighting|ndex=067|acquisition=Evolve|evolved=yes}}
{{Spindata/PinballRS|col=2|type=Fighting|ndex=067|acquisition=Evolve|evolved=yes}}
{{Spindata/Trozei|col=2|type=Fighting|ndex=067|rarity=Rare}}
|-
{{Spindata/MDRB|col=6|type=Fighting|ndex=067
|body=1
|rate=-19
|area=Mt. Discipline
|P1=If it's all about power, no one gets the better of me!
|P2=This isn't looking good. My health is down by half.
|P3=I'm useless... There's not an ounce of power left...
|PL=Leveled! I can feel the power welling up!
}}
|-
{{Spindata/MDTDS|col=6|type=Fighting|ndex=067
|body=1
|rate=-4.5
|IQ=D
}}
|-
{{Spindata/Ranger|col=6|type=Fighting
|group=Fighting
|assist=Fighting
|fieldpower=2
|field=Crush
|loop=8
|MinEXP=52
|MaxEXP=62
|browser=Machoke takes pride in its strong body. It has no trouble crushing big Boulders.
}}
|-
{{Spindata/Ranger SoA|col=6|type=Fighting
|group=Fighting
|assist=Fighting
|field=Tackle
|fieldpower=2
|browser=It attacks by throwing punches and launching shock waves.
}}
|-
{{Spindata/Rumble|col=3|type=Fighting
|att=3
|def=3
|speed=3
}}
{{Spindata/RumbleBlast|col=3|type=Fighting
|att=3
|def=3
|speed=3
}}
|-
{{Spindata/Conquest|col=6|type=Fighting|ndex=067
|HP=3
|atk=3
|def=2
|spd=2
|range=3
|move=Wake-Up Slap
|ability1=Guts
|ability2=Thrust
|ability3=Bodyguard
|evo=Evolves from {{p|Machop}} when its Attack is 86 or higher Evolves into {{p|Machamp}} when it has a link of 60% or higher, after knocking out a [[Warrior]]'s Pokémon in a manner that allows recruitment
|link={{DL|List of Pokémon Conquest characters|Isa}}, {{DL|List of Pokémon Conquest characters|Masatoshi}}, and {{DL|List of Pokémon Conquest characters|Tadatsune}}
}}
|-
{{Spindata/Battle Trozei|col=3|type=Fighting|ndex=067
|power=2
}}
{{Spindata/Shuffle|col=3|type=Fighting|ndex=067|num=344
|min=60
|max=80
|raisemaxlevel=0
|skill=Stabilize
|skilldesc=Occasionally erases one of the foe's disruptions on the board.
}}
|-
{{Spindata/GO|col=6|type=Fighting|ndex=067
|hatch=N/A
|evocandy=100
|stamina=160
|attack=154
|defense=144
|fast={{m|Low Kick}}, {{m|Karate Chop}}
|special={{m|Submission}}, {{m|Brick Break}}, {{m|Cross Chop}}
}}
|}

===Evolution===
{{Evobox-3
|type1=Fighting
|pictype=art
|no1=066
|name1=Machop
|type1-1=Fighting
|evo1={{bag|Rare Candy}} {{color2|000|Level|Level 28}}
|no2=067
|name2=Machoke
|type1-2=Fighting
|evo2={{bag|Pal Pad}} {{color2|000|Trade}}
|no3=068
|name3=Machamp
|type1-3=Fighting}}

===Sprites===
{{Spritebox/Header|type=Fighting}}
{{Spritebox/1|ndex=067}}
{{Spritebox/2|ndex=067}}
{{Spritebox/3|ndex=067}}
{{Spritebox/4|ndex=067}}
{{Spritebox/5|ndex=067}}
{{Spritebox/6|ndex=067}}
{{Spritebox/Footer|067|Machoke}}

==Trivia==
* In the [[Pokémon Red and Green beta|Pokémon Red and Blue beta]], Machoke was originally known as "Kung-Foo". This name is a corruption of ''kung fu'', a Chinese martial art.
* In [[The Official Pokémon Handbook]], Machoke is described as being extremely narcissistic; "Machoke, [...]likes its own body way too much. Sometimes it's too busy looking at itself in the mirror to train", which is exactly the opposite of the description given in Pokémon Stadium; "Although it is incredibly strong, it is always modest".
* Machoke's belt looks very similar to the Winner's Belt Prop in {{game|Black and White|s}}.

===Origin===
Machoke appears to be based on a {{wp|bodybuilder}} or wrestler with some reptilian traits.

====Name origin====
Machoke may be a combination of ''macho'' ({{wp|Spanish (language)|Spanish}} for ''male'', ''overly masculine'' or ''chauvinist'') and ''choke''. ''Macho'' has come to mean tough or masculine in English. Akin to {{p|Mr. Mime}}, the masculine attribute has no reflection on gender assignment, as both species can be male and female; however, {{p|Machop}}'s evolutionary line does have a 3:1 male:female ratio, making the species predominantly—but not entirely—male.

Goriky is a corruption of 剛力 ''gōriki'' ({{wp|Hercules|herculean}} strength).

==In other languages==
{{Other languages|type=fighting|type2=fighting
|ja=ゴーリキー ''Goriky''|jameaning=Corruption of {{tt|剛力 ''gōriki''|herculean strength}}
|fr=Machopeur|frmeaning=From ''Macho'' and ''{{tt|choppeur|someone who nabs people}}'' or ''{{tt|peur|fear}}''
|es=Machoke|esmeaning=Same as English name
|de=Maschock|demeaning=From ''Macho'' and ''{{tt|Schock|shock}}''
|it=Machoke|itmeaning=Same as English name
|ko=근육몬 ''Geunyukmon''|komeaning=From {{tt|근육 ''geun'yuk''|muscle}} and {{tt|''monster''|몬스터}}
|zh_yue=大力 ''Daaihlihk''|zh_yuemeaning=Literally "Great strength"
|zh_cmn=豪力 ''Háolì''|zh_cmnmeaning=Literally "Heroic strength"
|hi=मचोक ''Machoke''|himeaning=Transcription of English name
|ru=Мачоук ''Machouk''|rumeaning=Transcription of English name
}}
 

==Related articles==
* [[Blue's Machoke]]

==External links==
* {{wp|Machop, Machoke, and Machamp|Article on Wikipedia}}

==Notes==
<references />

{{PokémonPrevNext/Head|type=Fighting}}
{{PokémonPrevNext/Pokémon|type=Fighting|prevnum=066|prev=Machop|nextnum=068|next=Machamp}}
|}
{{-}}
{{Project Pokédex notice}}
[[Category:Pokémon that evolve through trading]]

[[de:Maschock]]
[[fr:Machopeur]]
[[it:Machoke]]
[[ja:ゴーリキー]]
[[pl:Machoke]]
[[zh:豪力]]

Pryce's Piloswine

2016-01-23T04:54:08Z

Ericss:

{{AnimePokémonInfobox|
type1=Ice|
type2=Ground|
trainername=Pryce|
pokemonname=Piloswine|
jtrainername=ヤナギ|
jpokemonname=イノムー|
tmtrainername=Yanagi|
tmpokemonname=Inomoo|
image=[[File:Pryce Piloswine.png|200px]] |
caption=Pryce's Piloswine |
location=[[Johto]] |
gender=Male{{tt|*|Confirmed in the games only}} |
ability={{a|Snow Cloak}}{{tt|*|Confirmed in the games only}} |
epnum=EP237|
epname=As Cold as Pryce|
prevonum=221|
current=[[Party|With Pryce]]|
java1=[[Unshō Ishizuka]]|
}}
'''Pryce's Piloswine''' (Japanese: '''ヤナギのイノムー''' ''Yanagi's Inomoo'') is [[Pryce]]'s main {{OBP|Pokémon|species}} in the {{pkmn|anime}} and games.

==In the anime==
===History===
Pryce had obtained Piloswine somewhere in his youth and the two were very close to each other. During a tournament Pryce entered in, Piloswine managed to defeat a {{p|Nidoking}} with a {{m|Take Down}}, a {{p|Golem}} with a {{m|Fury Attack}}, and an {{p|Ursaring}} with a {{m|Blizzard}}, freezing it in the process. Piloswine was on a roll until it went up against a Trainer with a {{p|Magmar}}. Pryce was confident that Piloswine was going to defeat Magmar, though. The battle began and one of Magmar's attacks burnt the {{type|Ice}}. When Magmar used {{m|Fire Blast}} to finish it off, Pryce jumped in the way to prevent it from getting hurt. As a result, both Pryce and Piloswine suffered grave burns and were taken to a cottage. Suddenly, Piloswine stepped outside into a snowstorm, seemingly abandoning Pryce in disgust for the defeat. Shocked, Pryce angrily yelled at him for leaving him after everything he had done for him, but Piloswine kept walking away until disappearing and never came back. This resulted in Pryce growing bitter and distant toward Pokémon in general.
[[File:Pryce and Piloswine.png|thumb|left|200px|Pryce and his Piloswine]]
Many years later, {{Ash}} and Pryce went into a cave where they found Piloswine trapped in ice, with some herbs by its side. It was revealed that Piloswine had stepped into the blizzard in order to get some herbs to cure Pryce from his burns, but fell down and became frozen. Heartbroken, Pryce realized his huge misunderstanding. Ash melted the ice surrounding Piloswine with {{AP|Cyndaquil}}'s {{m|Flamethrower}} and then had {{AP|Pikachu}} use {{m|Thunder Shock}} on the Pokémon to revive it. It looked like Piloswine wouldn't wake up no matter how many times it was shocked, but after many attempts, it finally revived. This one showed that it remembered his trainer, and Pryce was ecstatic to reunite with his old friend. Piloswine then used Rest to recover from the wounds it suffered. Ash, Pryce and Piloswine left the cave and reunited with [[Sheila]], {{an|Misty}} and {{an|Brock}}. {{TRT}} showed up and Piloswine took on their {{TP|Jessie|Arbok}} and {{TP|James|Weezing}}. Piloswine proceeded to attack them with Fury Attack first and then froze them with Blizzard, leaving Pikachu to finish them off. Having a change of heart, Pryce finally accepted Ash's challenge.

In ''[[EP238|Nice Pryce, Baby!]]'', Pryce groomed Piloswine before his upcoming Gym battle. He sent it out after his {{p|Dewgong}} was defeated by Cyndaquil. Piloswine began with Blizzard which took Cyndaquil out in one hit. Pikachu was then sent out. Pikachu was hit by Piloswine's barrage of Blizzard attacks. Pikachu took advantage of this after one of the Blizzards formed an ice pillar, by having him slide under Piloswine and use {{m|Thunder}}. This hurt Piloswine, but it used Rest to recover. After waking up, Piloswine countered Pikachu's {{m|Quick Attack}} with a combination of Take Down and Fury Attack. Pikachu used {{m|Thunderbolt}} but it had no effect this time. Piloswine once again used the earlier used combo and started to get tired. Pryce threw in the towel and went up to Piloswine, rewarding it for a job well done.

It reappeared in a flashback in ''[[EP255|Why? Wynaut!]]''.

===Personality and characteristics===
Piloswine is considered to be part of Pryce's family as seen in various flashbacks during its debut episode. However, Pryce's opinion about Piloswine changed after it left and didn't come back. Years later, he was still the same until Ash and Pryce found Piloswine frozen in a cave.

===Moves used===
{{anmov/h|ice|ground|Pryce Piloswine {{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 4}}|0=Rest|1=Blizzard|2=Take Down|3=Fury Attack}}.png|Using {{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 4}}|0=Rest|1=Blizzard|2=Take Down|3=Fury Attack}}}}
{{anmov|normal|Take Down|EP237|As Cold as Pryce}}
{{anmov|normal|Fury Attack|EP237|As Cold as Pryce}}
{{anmov|ice|Blizzard|EP237|As Cold as Pryce}}
{{anmov|psychic|Rest|EP237|As Cold as Pryce}}
{{anmov/f|ground}}

==In the games==
As mentioned above, Piloswine is also Pryce's main Pokémon in the games. It appears in {{3v2|Gold|Silver|Crystal}} and [[Pokémon HeartGold and SoulSilver Versions|its remakes]], as well as in both rounds of [[Pokémon Stadium 2]].

{|
!
|-
!{{game2|Gold|Silver|Crystal}}
!{{game|HeartGold and SoulSilver|s}}
! colspan="2" | [[Pokémon Stadium 2]]
|-
!
!
! Round 1
! Round 2
|-
|{{Pokémon/2|game=Crystal|ndex=221|pokemon=Piloswine
|level=31|gender=male|type1=Ice|type2=Ground
|move1=Icy Wind|move1type=Ice
|move2=Fury Attack|move2type=Normal
|move3=Mist|move3type=Ice
|move4=Blizzard|move4type=Ice}}
|{{Pokémon/4|game=HeartGold and SoulSilver|ndex=221 m|pokemon=Piloswine
|gender=male|type1=Ice|type2=Ground|ability=Snow Cloak|level=34|held=Sitrus Berry
|move1=Blizzard|move1type=Ice|move1cat=Special
|move2=Ice Fang|move2type=Ice|move2cat=Physical
|move3=Mud Bomb|move3type=Ground|move3cat=Special
|move4=Hail|move4type=Ice|move4cat=Status}}
|{{Pokémon/2|ndex=221|pokemon=Piloswine
|level=50-100|gender=male|type1=Ice|type2=Ground|held=Quick Claw
|move1=Blizzard|move1type=Ice
|move2=Take Down|move2type=Normal
|move3=Earthquake|move3type=Ground
|move4=Sleep Talk|move4type=Normal}}
|{{Pokémon/2|ndex=221|pokemon=Piloswine
|level=50-100|gender=male|type1=Ice|type2=Ground|held=Quick Claw
|move1=Ice Beam|move1type=Ice
|move2=Body Slam|move2type=Normal
|move3=Earthquake|move3type=Ground
|move4=AncientPower|move4type=Rock}}
|}

==In the manga==
[[File:Pryce Piloswine PM.png|thumb|200px|Pryce's Piloswine in the Pokémon Pocket Monsters manga]]
===In the Pokémon Pocket Monsters manga===
Piloswine makes an appearance in ''[[PM100|Ice World]]''. When {{TP|Red|Clefairy}} puts on a Piloswine costume, Pryce's Piloswine is angered and attacked it. When Piloswine returned, the battle between Clefairy and Swinub was called off and both Pryce and Swinub were able to see it again.

==Related articles==
{{Animespecies|Piloswine}}
{{-}}
{{Project Anime notice|no}}
[[Category:Gym Leaders' Pokémon]]

[[pl:Piloswine Pryce'a]]
[[it:Piloswine di Alfredo]]

Pryce's Piloswine

2016-01-23T04:39:07Z

Ericss:

{{AnimePokémonInfobox|
type1=Ice|
type2=Ground|
trainername=Pryce|
pokemonname=Piloswine|
jtrainername=ヤナギ|
jpokemonname=イノムー|
tmtrainername=Yanagi|
tmpokemonname=Inomoo|
image=[[File:Pryce Piloswine.png|200px]] |
caption=Pryce's Piloswine |
location=[[Johto]] |
gender=Male{{tt|*|Confirmed in the games only}} |
ability={{a|Snow Cloak}}{{tt|*|Confirmed in the games only}} |
epnum=EP237|
epname=As Cold as Pryce|
prevonum=221|
current=[[Party|With Pryce]]|
java1=[[Unshō Ishizuka]]|
}}
'''Pryce's Piloswine''' (Japanese: '''ヤナギのイノムー''' ''Yanagi's Inomoo'') is [[Pryce]]'s main {{OBP|Pokémon|species}} in the {{pkmn|anime}} and games.

==In the anime==
===History===
Pryce had obtained Piloswine somewhere in his youth and the two were very close to each other. During a tournament Pryce entered in, Piloswine managed to defeat a {{p|Nidoking}} with a {{m|Take Down}}, a {{p|Golem}} with a {{m|Fury Attack}}, and an {{p|Ursaring}} with a {{m|Blizzard}}, freezing it in the process. Piloswine was on a roll until it went up against a Trainer with a {{p|Magmar}}. Pryce was confident that Piloswine was going to defeat Magmar, though. The battle began and one of Magmar's attacks burnt the {{type|Ice}}. When Magmar used {{m|Fire Blast}} to finish it off, Pryce jumped in the way to prevent it from getting hurt. As a result, both Pryce and Piloswine suffered burns and were taken to a cottage. Suddenly, Piloswine stepped outside and left the cottage to never come back, seemingly abandoning Pryce in disgust for their defeat. This resulted in Pryce growing bitter and distant from his Pokémon.
[[File:Pryce and Piloswine.png|thumb|left|200px|Pryce and his Piloswine]]
Many years later, {{Ash}} and Pryce went into a cave where they found Piloswine trapped in ice, with some herbs by its side. It was revealed that Piloswine had stepped into the blizzard in order to get some herbs to cure Pryce from his burns, but became fell down and became frozen. Heartbroken, Pryce realized his huge misunderstanding. Ash melted the ice surrounding Piloswine with {{AP|Cyndaquil}}'s {{m|Flamethrower}} and then had {{AP|Pikachu}} use {{m|Thunder Shock}} on it to revive it. It looked like Piloswine wouldn't wake up no matter how many times it was shocked, but after many attempts, it finally revived. This one proceeded to show that it remembered his trainer, and Pryce was ecstatic to reunite with his old friend. Piloswine then used Rest to recover from the wounds it suffered. Ash, Pryce and Piloswine left the cave and reunited with [[Sheila]], {{an|Misty}} and {{an|Brock}}. {{TRT}} showed up and Piloswine took on their {{TP|Jessie|Arbok}} and {{TP|James|Weezing}}. Piloswine attacked them with Fury Attack first and then froze them with Blizzard, leaving Pikachu to finish them off. Having a change of heart, Pryce finally accepted Ash's challenge.

In ''[[EP238|Nice Pryce, Baby!]]'', Pryce groomed Piloswine before his upcoming Gym battle. He sent it out after his {{p|Dewgong}} was defeated by Cyndaquil. Piloswine began with Blizzard which took Cyndaquil out in one hit. Pikachu was then sent out. Pikachu was hit by Piloswine's barrage of Blizzard attacks. Pikachu took advantage of this after one of the Blizzards formed an ice pillar, by having him slide under Piloswine and use {{m|Thunder}}. This hurt Piloswine, but it used Rest to recover. After waking up, Piloswine countered Pikachu's {{m|Quick Attack}} with a combination of Take Down and Fury Attack. Pikachu used {{m|Thunderbolt}} but it had no effect this time. Piloswine once again used the earlier used combo and started to get tired. Pryce threw in the towel and went up to Piloswine, rewarding it for a job well done.

It reappeared in a flashback in ''[[EP255|Why? Wynaut!]]''.

===Personality and characteristics===
Piloswine is considered to be part of Pryce's family as seen in various flashbacks during its debut episode. However, Pryce's opinion about Piloswine changed after it left and didn't come back. Years later, he was still the same until Ash and Pryce found Piloswine frozen in a cave.

===Moves used===
{{anmov/h|ice|ground|Pryce Piloswine {{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 4}}|0=Rest|1=Blizzard|2=Take Down|3=Fury Attack}}.png|Using {{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 4}}|0=Rest|1=Blizzard|2=Take Down|3=Fury Attack}}}}
{{anmov|normal|Take Down|EP237|As Cold as Pryce}}
{{anmov|normal|Fury Attack|EP237|As Cold as Pryce}}
{{anmov|ice|Blizzard|EP237|As Cold as Pryce}}
{{anmov|psychic|Rest|EP237|As Cold as Pryce}}
{{anmov/f|ground}}

==In the games==
As mentioned above, Piloswine is also Pryce's main Pokémon in the games. It appears in {{3v2|Gold|Silver|Crystal}} and [[Pokémon HeartGold and SoulSilver Versions|its remakes]], as well as in both rounds of [[Pokémon Stadium 2]].

{|
!
|-
!{{game2|Gold|Silver|Crystal}}
!{{game|HeartGold and SoulSilver|s}}
! colspan="2" | [[Pokémon Stadium 2]]
|-
!
!
! Round 1
! Round 2
|-
|{{Pokémon/2|game=Crystal|ndex=221|pokemon=Piloswine
|level=31|gender=male|type1=Ice|type2=Ground
|move1=Icy Wind|move1type=Ice
|move2=Fury Attack|move2type=Normal
|move3=Mist|move3type=Ice
|move4=Blizzard|move4type=Ice}}
|{{Pokémon/4|game=HeartGold and SoulSilver|ndex=221 m|pokemon=Piloswine
|gender=male|type1=Ice|type2=Ground|ability=Snow Cloak|level=34|held=Sitrus Berry
|move1=Blizzard|move1type=Ice|move1cat=Special
|move2=Ice Fang|move2type=Ice|move2cat=Physical
|move3=Mud Bomb|move3type=Ground|move3cat=Special
|move4=Hail|move4type=Ice|move4cat=Status}}
|{{Pokémon/2|ndex=221|pokemon=Piloswine
|level=50-100|gender=male|type1=Ice|type2=Ground|held=Quick Claw
|move1=Blizzard|move1type=Ice
|move2=Take Down|move2type=Normal
|move3=Earthquake|move3type=Ground
|move4=Sleep Talk|move4type=Normal}}
|{{Pokémon/2|ndex=221|pokemon=Piloswine
|level=50-100|gender=male|type1=Ice|type2=Ground|held=Quick Claw
|move1=Ice Beam|move1type=Ice
|move2=Body Slam|move2type=Normal
|move3=Earthquake|move3type=Ground
|move4=AncientPower|move4type=Rock}}
|}

==In the manga==
[[File:Pryce Piloswine PM.png|thumb|200px|Pryce's Piloswine in the Pokémon Pocket Monsters manga]]
===In the Pokémon Pocket Monsters manga===
Piloswine makes an appearance in ''[[PM100|Ice World]]''. When {{TP|Red|Clefairy}} puts on a Piloswine costume, Pryce's Piloswine is angered and attacked it. When Piloswine returned, the battle between Clefairy and Swinub was called off and both Pryce and Swinub were able to see it again.

==Related articles==
{{Animespecies|Piloswine}}
{{-}}
{{Project Anime notice|no}}
[[Category:Gym Leaders' Pokémon]]

[[pl:Piloswine Pryce'a]]
[[it:Piloswine di Alfredo]]

Pryce's Piloswine

2016-01-23T04:23:42Z

Ericss:

{{AnimePokémonInfobox|
type1=Ice|
type2=Ground|
trainername=Pryce|
pokemonname=Piloswine|
jtrainername=ヤナギ|
jpokemonname=イノムー|
tmtrainername=Yanagi|
tmpokemonname=Inomoo|
image=[[File:Pryce Piloswine.png|200px]] |
caption=Pryce's Piloswine |
location=[[Johto]] |
gender=Male{{tt|*|Confirmed in the games only}} |
ability={{a|Snow Cloak}}{{tt|*|Confirmed in the games only}} |
epnum=EP237|
epname=As Cold as Pryce|
prevonum=221|
current=[[Party|With Pryce]]|
java1=[[Unshō Ishizuka]]|
}}
'''Pryce's Piloswine''' (Japanese: '''ヤナギのイノムー''' ''Yanagi's Inomoo'') is [[Pryce]]'s main {{OBP|Pokémon|species}} in the {{pkmn|anime}} and games.

==In the anime==
===History===
Pryce had obtained Piloswine somewhere in his youth and the two were very close to each other. During a tournament Pryce entered in, Piloswine managed to defeat a {{p|Nidoking}} with a {{m|Take Down}}, a {{p|Golem}} with a {{m|Fury Attack}}, and an {{p|Ursaring}} with a {{m|Blizzard}}, freezing it in the process. Piloswine was on a roll until it went up against a Trainer with a {{p|Magmar}}. Pryce was confident that Piloswine was going to defeat Magmar, though. The battle began and one of Magmar's attacks burnt the {{type|Ice}}. When Magmar used {{m|Fire Blast}} to finish it off, Pryce jumped in the way to prevent it from getting hurt. As a result, both Pryce and Piloswine suffered burns and were taken to a cottage. Suddenly, Piloswine stepped outside and left the cottage to never come back, seemingly abandoning Pryce in disgust for their defeat. This resulted in Pryce growing bitter and distant from his Pokémon.
[[File:Pryce and Piloswine.png|thumb|left|200px|Pryce and his Piloswine]]
Many years later, {{Ash}} and Pryce went into a cave where they found Piloswine trapped in ice, with some herbs by its side. It was revealed that Piloswine had stepped into the blizzard in order to get some herbs to cure Pryce from his burns, but became trapped in ice. Heartbroken, Pryce realized his huge misunderstanding. Ash melted the ice surrounding Piloswine with {{AP|Cyndaquil}}'s {{m|Flamethrower}} and had {{AP|Pikachu}} use {{m|Thunder Shock}} on it to revive it. After many attempts, Piloswine finally woke up. Pryce was then told by Piloswine that it remembered him, and the gym leader was ecstatic to reunite with his old friend. Piloswine used Rest to recover from the wounds it suffered from. Ash, Pryce and Piloswine left the cave and reunited with [[Sheila]], {{an|Misty}} and {{an|Brock}}. {{TRT}} showed up and Piloswine took on their {{TP|Jessie|Arbok}} and {{TP|James|Weezing}}. Piloswine attacked them with Fury Attack first and then froze them with Blizzard, leaving Pikachu to finish them off. Having a change of heart, Pryce then accepted Ash's challenge.

In ''[[EP238|Nice Pryce, Baby!]]'', Pryce groomed Piloswine before his upcoming Gym battle. He sent it out after his {{p|Dewgong}} was defeated by Cyndaquil. Piloswine began with Blizzard which took Cyndaquil out in one hit. Pikachu was then sent out. Pikachu was hit by Piloswine's barrage of Blizzard attacks. Pikachu took advantage of this after one of the Blizzards formed an ice pillar, by having him slide under Piloswine and use {{m|Thunder}}. This hurt Piloswine, but it used Rest to recover. After waking up, Piloswine countered Pikachu's {{m|Quick Attack}} with a combination of Take Down and Fury Attack. Pikachu used {{m|Thunderbolt}} but it had no effect this time. Piloswine once again used the earlier used combo and started to get tired. Pryce threw in the towel and went up to Piloswine, rewarding it for a job well done.

It reappeared in a flashback in ''[[EP255|Why? Wynaut!]]''.

===Personality and characteristics===
Piloswine is considered to be part of Pryce's family as seen in various flashbacks during its debut episode. However, Pryce's opinion about Piloswine changed after it left and didn't come back. Years later, he was still the same until Ash and Pryce found Piloswine frozen in a cave.

===Moves used===
{{anmov/h|ice|ground|Pryce Piloswine {{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 4}}|0=Rest|1=Blizzard|2=Take Down|3=Fury Attack}}.png|Using {{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 4}}|0=Rest|1=Blizzard|2=Take Down|3=Fury Attack}}}}
{{anmov|normal|Take Down|EP237|As Cold as Pryce}}
{{anmov|normal|Fury Attack|EP237|As Cold as Pryce}}
{{anmov|ice|Blizzard|EP237|As Cold as Pryce}}
{{anmov|psychic|Rest|EP237|As Cold as Pryce}}
{{anmov/f|ground}}

==In the games==
As mentioned above, Piloswine is also Pryce's main Pokémon in the games. It appears in {{3v2|Gold|Silver|Crystal}} and [[Pokémon HeartGold and SoulSilver Versions|its remakes]], as well as in both rounds of [[Pokémon Stadium 2]].

{|
!
|-
!{{game2|Gold|Silver|Crystal}}
!{{game|HeartGold and SoulSilver|s}}
! colspan="2" | [[Pokémon Stadium 2]]
|-
!
!
! Round 1
! Round 2
|-
|{{Pokémon/2|game=Crystal|ndex=221|pokemon=Piloswine
|level=31|gender=male|type1=Ice|type2=Ground
|move1=Icy Wind|move1type=Ice
|move2=Fury Attack|move2type=Normal
|move3=Mist|move3type=Ice
|move4=Blizzard|move4type=Ice}}
|{{Pokémon/4|game=HeartGold and SoulSilver|ndex=221 m|pokemon=Piloswine
|gender=male|type1=Ice|type2=Ground|ability=Snow Cloak|level=34|held=Sitrus Berry
|move1=Blizzard|move1type=Ice|move1cat=Special
|move2=Ice Fang|move2type=Ice|move2cat=Physical
|move3=Mud Bomb|move3type=Ground|move3cat=Special
|move4=Hail|move4type=Ice|move4cat=Status}}
|{{Pokémon/2|ndex=221|pokemon=Piloswine
|level=50-100|gender=male|type1=Ice|type2=Ground|held=Quick Claw
|move1=Blizzard|move1type=Ice
|move2=Take Down|move2type=Normal
|move3=Earthquake|move3type=Ground
|move4=Sleep Talk|move4type=Normal}}
|{{Pokémon/2|ndex=221|pokemon=Piloswine
|level=50-100|gender=male|type1=Ice|type2=Ground|held=Quick Claw
|move1=Ice Beam|move1type=Ice
|move2=Body Slam|move2type=Normal
|move3=Earthquake|move3type=Ground
|move4=AncientPower|move4type=Rock}}
|}

==In the manga==
[[File:Pryce Piloswine PM.png|thumb|200px|Pryce's Piloswine in the Pokémon Pocket Monsters manga]]
===In the Pokémon Pocket Monsters manga===
Piloswine makes an appearance in ''[[PM100|Ice World]]''. When {{TP|Red|Clefairy}} puts on a Piloswine costume, Pryce's Piloswine is angered and attacked it. When Piloswine returned, the battle between Clefairy and Swinub was called off and both Pryce and Swinub were able to see it again.

==Related articles==
{{Animespecies|Piloswine}}
{{-}}
{{Project Anime notice|no}}
[[Category:Gym Leaders' Pokémon]]

[[pl:Piloswine Pryce'a]]
[[it:Piloswine di Alfredo]]

Pryce's Piloswine

2016-01-23T04:23:00Z

Ericss:

{{AnimePokémonInfobox|
type1=Ice|
type2=Ground|
trainername=Pryce|
pokemonname=Piloswine|
jtrainername=ヤナギ|
jpokemonname=イノムー|
tmtrainername=Yanagi|
tmpokemonname=Inomoo|
image=[[File:Pryce Piloswine.png|200px]] |
caption=Pryce's Piloswine |
location=[[Johto]] |
gender=Male{{tt|*|Confirmed in the games only}} |
ability={{a|Snow Cloak}}{{tt|*|Confirmed in the games only}} |
epnum=EP237|
epname=As Cold as Pryce|
prevonum=221|
current=[[Party|With Pryce]]|
java1=[[Unshō Ishizuka]]|
}}
'''Pryce's Piloswine''' (Japanese: '''ヤナギのイノムー''' ''Yanagi's Inomoo'') is [[Pryce]]'s main {{OBP|Pokémon|species}} in the {{pkmn|anime}} and games.

==In the anime==
===History===
Pryce had obtained Piloswine somewhere in his youth and the two were very close to each other. During a tournament Pryce entered in, Piloswine managed to defeat a {{p|Nidoking}} with a {{m|Take Down}}, a {{p|Golem}} with a {{m|Fury Attack}}, and an {{p|Ursaring}} with a {{m|Blizzard}}, freezing it in the process. Piloswine was on a roll until it went up against a Trainer with a {{p|Magmar}}. Pryce was confident that Piloswine was going to defeat Magmar, though. The battle began and one of Magmar's attacks burnt the {{type|Ice}}. When Magmar used {{m|Fire Blast}} to finish it off, Pryce jumped in the way to prevent it from getting hurt. As a result, both Pryce and Piloswine suffered burns and were taken to a cottage. Suddenly Piloswine stepped outside and left the cottage to never come back, seemingly abandoning Pryce in disgust for their defeat. This resulted in Pryce growing bitter and distant from his Pokémon.
[[File:Pryce and Piloswine.png|thumb|left|200px|Pryce and his Piloswine]]
Many years later, {{Ash}} and Pryce went into a cave where they found Piloswine trapped in ice, with some herbs by its side. It was revealed that Piloswine had stepped into the blizzard in order to get some herbs to cure Pryce from his burns, but became trapped in ice. Heartbroken, Pryce realized the big misunderstanding. Ash melted the ice surrounding Piloswine with {{AP|Cyndaquil}}'s {{m|Flamethrower}} and had {{AP|Pikachu}} use {{m|Thunder Shock}} on it to revive it. After many attempts, Piloswine finally woke up. Pryce was then told by Piloswine that it remembered him, and the gym leader was ecstatic to reunite with his old friend. Piloswine used Rest to recover from the wounds it suffered from. Ash, Pryce and Piloswine left the cave and reunited with [[Sheila]], {{an|Misty}} and {{an|Brock}}. {{TRT}} showed up and Piloswine took on their {{TP|Jessie|Arbok}} and {{TP|James|Weezing}}. Piloswine attacked them with Fury Attack first and then froze them with Blizzard, leaving Pikachu to finish them off. Having a change of heart, Pryce then accepted Ash's challenge.

In ''[[EP238|Nice Pryce, Baby!]]'', Pryce groomed Piloswine before his upcoming Gym battle. He sent it out after his {{p|Dewgong}} was defeated by Cyndaquil. Piloswine began with Blizzard which took Cyndaquil out in one hit. Pikachu was then sent out. Pikachu was hit by Piloswine's barrage of Blizzard attacks. Pikachu took advantage of this after one of the Blizzards formed an ice pillar, by having him slide under Piloswine and use {{m|Thunder}}. This hurt Piloswine, but it used Rest to recover. After waking up, Piloswine countered Pikachu's {{m|Quick Attack}} with a combination of Take Down and Fury Attack. Pikachu used {{m|Thunderbolt}} but it had no effect this time. Piloswine once again used the earlier used combo and started to get tired. Pryce threw in the towel and went up to Piloswine, rewarding it for a job well done.

It reappeared in a flashback in ''[[EP255|Why? Wynaut!]]''.

===Personality and characteristics===
Piloswine is considered to be part of Pryce's family as seen in various flashbacks during its debut episode. However, Pryce's opinion about Piloswine changed after it left and didn't come back. Years later, he was still the same until Ash and Pryce found Piloswine frozen in a cave.

===Moves used===
{{anmov/h|ice|ground|Pryce Piloswine {{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 4}}|0=Rest|1=Blizzard|2=Take Down|3=Fury Attack}}.png|Using {{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 4}}|0=Rest|1=Blizzard|2=Take Down|3=Fury Attack}}}}
{{anmov|normal|Take Down|EP237|As Cold as Pryce}}
{{anmov|normal|Fury Attack|EP237|As Cold as Pryce}}
{{anmov|ice|Blizzard|EP237|As Cold as Pryce}}
{{anmov|psychic|Rest|EP237|As Cold as Pryce}}
{{anmov/f|ground}}

==In the games==
As mentioned above, Piloswine is also Pryce's main Pokémon in the games. It appears in {{3v2|Gold|Silver|Crystal}} and [[Pokémon HeartGold and SoulSilver Versions|its remakes]], as well as in both rounds of [[Pokémon Stadium 2]].

{|
!
|-
!{{game2|Gold|Silver|Crystal}}
!{{game|HeartGold and SoulSilver|s}}
! colspan="2" | [[Pokémon Stadium 2]]
|-
!
!
! Round 1
! Round 2
|-
|{{Pokémon/2|game=Crystal|ndex=221|pokemon=Piloswine
|level=31|gender=male|type1=Ice|type2=Ground
|move1=Icy Wind|move1type=Ice
|move2=Fury Attack|move2type=Normal
|move3=Mist|move3type=Ice
|move4=Blizzard|move4type=Ice}}
|{{Pokémon/4|game=HeartGold and SoulSilver|ndex=221 m|pokemon=Piloswine
|gender=male|type1=Ice|type2=Ground|ability=Snow Cloak|level=34|held=Sitrus Berry
|move1=Blizzard|move1type=Ice|move1cat=Special
|move2=Ice Fang|move2type=Ice|move2cat=Physical
|move3=Mud Bomb|move3type=Ground|move3cat=Special
|move4=Hail|move4type=Ice|move4cat=Status}}
|{{Pokémon/2|ndex=221|pokemon=Piloswine
|level=50-100|gender=male|type1=Ice|type2=Ground|held=Quick Claw
|move1=Blizzard|move1type=Ice
|move2=Take Down|move2type=Normal
|move3=Earthquake|move3type=Ground
|move4=Sleep Talk|move4type=Normal}}
|{{Pokémon/2|ndex=221|pokemon=Piloswine
|level=50-100|gender=male|type1=Ice|type2=Ground|held=Quick Claw
|move1=Ice Beam|move1type=Ice
|move2=Body Slam|move2type=Normal
|move3=Earthquake|move3type=Ground
|move4=AncientPower|move4type=Rock}}
|}

==In the manga==
[[File:Pryce Piloswine PM.png|thumb|200px|Pryce's Piloswine in the Pokémon Pocket Monsters manga]]
===In the Pokémon Pocket Monsters manga===
Piloswine makes an appearance in ''[[PM100|Ice World]]''. When {{TP|Red|Clefairy}} puts on a Piloswine costume, Pryce's Piloswine is angered and attacked it. When Piloswine returned, the battle between Clefairy and Swinub was called off and both Pryce and Swinub were able to see it again.

==Related articles==
{{Animespecies|Piloswine}}
{{-}}
{{Project Anime notice|no}}
[[Category:Gym Leaders' Pokémon]]

[[pl:Piloswine Pryce'a]]
[[it:Piloswine di Alfredo]]

Talk:Pallet Town

2015-12-18T20:13:02Z

Ericss: Removing inane question and the off-topic headcanon

== Pokemon Pinball ==

In the first Pinball game Bulbasaur, Charmander, Pidgey, Rattata, Nidoran (Male), Poliwag and Tentacool can be caught in Pallet Town, in the Red Zone, I believe this should be in the article, but I don't know where. Any suggestions, or is it to petty? --[[User:Spriteit|Spriteit]] 13:23, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
:Perhaps in the trivia. It is more of a main game article. Maybe on another page, like, say the {{g|Pinball}} page itself.--[[User:Clarky13|'''Clarky''']][[User talk:Clarky13|'''13''']] 13:28, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

== Sign ==

In FR/LG, sign says "Shades of your journey await!" In G/S/C however, it says, "A Tranquil Setting of Peace & Purity." Which should we use? [[User:Ht14|''ht'']][[User talk:Ht14|''14'']] 22:07, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
:I say "Shades of your journey await!" It refers to present-day Pallet, not 3 years later or whatever. [[User:PH1RESTRIKE| |3urn ]][[Special:contributions/PH1RESTRIKE|•]][[User talk:PH1RESTRIKE|57R1K3]] 22:26, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
::Ok, that's pushing it. Your theory suggests that G/S/C and D/P/Pt takes place in the future... [[User:Ht14|''ht'']][[User talk:Ht14|''14'']] 22:28, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
:::Well, apparently, GSC does. DPPt has nothing to do with Pallet. [[User:PH1RESTRIKE| |3urn ]][[Special:contributions/PH1RESTRIKE|•]][[User talk:PH1RESTRIKE|57R1K3]] 22:31, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
::::I'll agree with that (about the D/P/Pt thing), but that still doesn't answer my initial question: which sign should we use? [[User:Ht14|''ht'']][[User talk:Ht14|''14'']] 22:33, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
:::::Um, both? At the moment, though, we lack a GSC sign template, so until someone makes one let's just go with the FRLG. It is possible to have two signs though. — [[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|THE TROM]] — 23:18, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

==Labels?==
Hey I was wondering if we could place labels on the maps. That way if some new person who came here for maps would be able to know where certan buildings other than pokémon centers and marts and gyms. [[User:Mario Man|Mario Man]]
:What else is there that can't be put in the article? [[User:The Dark Fiddler|The Dark Fiddler]] - [[User talk:The Dark Fiddler|You enter a poorly lit room...]] 00:37, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
::Sarcasm is very helpful. [[User:PH1RESTRIKE| |>H1|23]][[Special:contributions/PH1RESTRIKE|•]][[User talk:PH1RESTRIKE|57R1K3]] 00:44, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
:::If you're talking to me, I'm being serious. [[User:The Dark Fiddler|The Dark Fiddler]] - [[User talk:The Dark Fiddler|You enter a poorly lit room...]] 00:47, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
::::Let me answer for you. "Well, that's your idea. Go make a suggestion to the leader of {{bp|Project Locations}} or {{bp|Project Cities and Towns}}. They're the ones who consider it." [[User:PH1RESTRIKE| |>H1|23]][[Special:contributions/PH1RESTRIKE|•]][[User talk:PH1RESTRIKE|57R1K3]] 00:52, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

== Mandarin Chinese Town Name Meaning ==

I think the names listed for this town in Mandarin Chinese (眞新鎮/真新镇) would mean along the lines of "Truly New Town". I researched it a bit and used my small amount of knowledge of the language and that's at least a close definition if not the actual one. Any input or corrections? - [[User:JWhitt|J]][[User_talk:JWhitt|Whitt]] 13:01, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
:The only ones I'm positive on are that the middle character in both names (both being the same) would mean "new" and that the last character on both names mean "town", despite those two being different. Its the first character on both and the actual structure of the name that get me, as I don't have much knowledge into actual grammatical forms in Mandarian such as adjectives. - [[User:JWhitt|J]][[User_talk:JWhitt|Whitt]] 13:06, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

== Generation IV art ==

is this good enough? [[:a:File:Pallet Town Generation IV.jpg]] --[[User:Darknesslover5000|Darknesslover5000]] 17:12, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
:It should be png, not jpg. Also, do you make these yourself? If not, have you the permission to use them? '''UltimateSephiroth''' ([[User:UltimateSephiroth|about me]] · [[User talk:UltimateSephiroth|chat]] · [[Special:Contributions/UltimateSephiroth|edits]]) 17:20, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
::I find 'em on Google so no I don't make 'em.--[[User:Darknesslover5000|Darknesslover5000]] 17:22, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
:::Then, if you haven't contacted the author and gained a permission, you should not upload them. '''UltimateSephiroth''' ([[User:UltimateSephiroth|about me]] · [[User talk:UltimateSephiroth|chat]] · [[Special:Contributions/UltimateSephiroth|edits]]) 17:23, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
::::just trying to help--[[User:Darknesslover5000|Darknesslover5000]] 17:24, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
:::::Don't Google for the HGSS maps if you don't have the actual game to check if they're real or not.. I'm not up to Pallet Town so I can't check, but you should really verify if they're real or just sprited before posting. →''[[User:Tina|'''T'''inā]]'' [[User talk:Tina|♫]][[Special:Contributions/Tina|★]] 17:26, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
::::::like I said I was just trying to help out. --[[User:Darknesslover5000|Darknesslover5000]] 17:27, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
:::::::my goal is to get everything I can uploaded to {{g|HeartGold and SoulSilver}} style--[[User:Darknesslover5000|Darknesslover5000]] 02:24, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
[[User:Brendon|Brendon]], why are you using the incomplete HG/SS picture as the header picture? The header picture needs to be complete, like the one that [[User:Darknesslover5000|Darknesslover5000]] put just above this, except a .png, not a .jpg. --[[User:Oz|'''O''']][[User talk:Oz|'''z''']] 09:46, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

== Old Rod Fishing ==

I am training my newly hatched Eevee in Pokémon LeafGreen and the area around Pallet town is where the lower level Pokémon are. I wasn't having a whole lot of luck on Route 1, and so I decided to do some fishing. The first Magikarp I caught in the water in Pallet Town was at level 10. I thought I was going crazy, so I decided to fish some more (still using the old rod) and caught a few level 5 Magikarps and two Magikarp at level 6. So I decided to check out what Bulbapedia said about fishing in Pallet Town. It is listed that only level 5 Magikarp can be caught with the old rod. I Google searched "Pallet Town fishing in LeafGreen" and found one site that said Magikarp above level 5 can be found with the old rod. So, I am asking for this to be verified and then changed on the Pallet Town page. --[[User:Cyalknight|Cyal (LeafGreen&Emerald)]] ([[User talk:Cyalknight|talk]]) 23:03, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
:The levels listed in our location articles are added solely from in-game experiences - the game guides don't list levels. They are liable to be missing levels which are available. Please do change them to match what you have found in-game. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] [[User talk:Werdnae|(talk)]] 23:26, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

Baby Pokémon

2015-11-12T00:05:31Z

Ericss: /* In the TCG */

'''Baby Pokémon''' (Japanese: '''ベイビィポケモン''' ''baby Pokémon'') are Pokémon at the lowest stage of {{OBP|Pokémon|species}} [[Evolution]] that cannot themselves [[Pokémon breeding|breed]]. The concept was introduced in [[Generation II]], along with breeding. Specifically, baby Pokémon can be classified by the following criteria:
*Must be obtainable by breeding.
*Must be the lowest form in a family chain and must be able to evolve at least once.
*Must belong to the {{egg|Undiscovered}} [[Egg Group]].

The only baby Pokémon introduced alongside their evolutions are {{p|Togepi}} and {{p|Riolu}}; the rest were introduced in generations after their evolutions were. To achieve evolution, many require maximized [[friendship]].

In the games, most baby Pokémon are only obtainable through breeding. On occasion, [[non-player character]]s will give the {{player}} an {{pkmn|Egg}} containing a baby Pokémon, and this Pokémon typically cannot be obtained by any other method except by breeding. [[Generation III]] introduced the first baby Pokémon able to be caught in the wild: {{p|Wynaut}} on [[Mirage Island]]. In [[Generation IV]], many other baby Pokémon were also available in the wild.

From [[Generation III]] on, in order to breed most newly introduced baby Pokémon, the parent in their evolutionary line must hold a specific [[Incense]] before breeding, which provides a rationale for why those parent Pokémon could not produce these Eggs in previous generations. For example, {{p|Marill}}, who was introduced in [[Generation II]], could not produce Azurill Eggs until the introduction of the Sea Incense in Generation III.

In {{g|X and Y}}, baby Pokémon caught in the wild are guaranteed to have three random [[IV]]s of 31 due to their inclusion in the Undiscovered Egg Group.

==List of baby Pokémon==
{| style="background: #d5cda4; {{roundy}}; border: 5px solid #cde6b4; margin: auto; width: auto; text-align:center;"
|-
! colspan="2" style="background:#eee6bd; {{roundytl|5px}}" | {{color|83b46a|Baby}}
! style="background:#eee6bd;" | {{color|83b46a|Basic}}
! colspan="2" style="background:#eee6bd; {{roundytr|5px}};" | {{color|83b46a|Evolution}}
|- style="background: #fff6de;"
| rowspan="2" | [[File:172Pichu.png|96px]] {{pcolor|Pichu|5e824d}} {{typecolor|Electric}} {{color|5e824d|Egg Group:}} {{color2|5e824d|Undiscovered (Egg Group)|Undiscovered}}
| {{color|5e824d|←}} {{color2|5e824d|Pokémon breeding|Breed}}
| rowspan="2" | [[File:025Pikachu.png|96px]] {{pcolor|Pikachu|5e824d}} {{typecolor|Electric}} {{color|5e824d|Egg Groups:}} {{color2|5e824d|Field (Egg Group)|Field}} {{color|5e824d|and}} {{color2|5e824d|Fairy (Egg Group)|Fairy}}
| rowspan="2" | {{color|5e824d|→}} {{color2|5e824d|Evolutionary stone#Thunder Stone|Thunder Stone}}
| rowspan="2" | [[File:026Raichu.png|96px]] {{pcolor|Raichu|5e824d}} {{typecolor|Electric}} {{color|5e824d|Egg Groups:}} {{color2|5e824d|Field (Egg Group)|Field}} {{color|5e824d|and}} {{color2|5e824d|Fairy (Egg Group)|Fairy}}
|- style="background: #fff6de;"
| {{color|5e824d|Friendship}} {{color|5e824d|→}}
|- style="background: #fff6de;"
| rowspan="2" | [[File:173Cleffa.png|96px]] {{pcolor|Cleffa|5e824d}} {{typecolor|Fairy}} {{color|5e824d|Egg Group:}} {{color2|5e824d|Undiscovered (Egg Group)|Undiscovered}}
| {{color|5e824d|←}} {{color2|5e824d|Pokémon breeding|Breed}}
| rowspan="2" | [[File:035Clefairy.png|96px]] {{pcolor|Clefairy|5e824d}} {{typecolor|Fairy}} {{color|5e824d|Egg Group:}} {{color2|5e824d|Fairy (Egg Group)|Fairy}}
| rowspan="2" | {{color|5e824d|→}} {{color2|5e824d|Evolutionary stone#Moon Stone|Moon Stone}}
| rowspan="2" | [[File:036Clefable.png|96px]] {{pcolor|Clefable|5e824d}} {{typecolor|Fairy}} {{color|5e824d|Egg Group:}} {{color2|5e824d|Fairy (Egg Group)|Fairy}}
|- style="background: #fff6de;"
| {{color|5e824d|Friendship}} {{color|5e824d|→}}
|- style="background: #fff6de;"
| rowspan="2" | [[File:174Igglybuff.png|96px]] {{pcolor|Igglybuff|5e824d}} {{typecolor|Normal}}{{typecolor|Fairy}} {{color|5e824d|Egg Group:}} {{color2|5e824d|Undiscovered (Egg Group)|Undiscovered}}
| {{color|5e824d|←}} {{color2|5e824d|Pokémon breeding|Breed}}
| rowspan="2" | [[File:039Jigglypuff.png|96px]] {{pcolor|Jigglypuff|5e824d}} {{typecolor|Normal}}{{typecolor|Fairy}} {{color|5e824d|Egg Group:}} {{color2|5e824d|Fairy (Egg Group)|Fairy}}
| rowspan="2" | {{color|5e824d|→}} {{color2|5e824d|Evolutionary stone#Moon Stone|Moon Stone}}
| rowspan="2" | [[File:040Wigglytuff.png|96px]] {{pcolor|Wigglytuff|5e824d}} {{typecolor|Normal}}{{typecolor|Fairy}} {{color|5e824d|Egg Group:}} {{color2|5e824d|Fairy (Egg Group)|Fairy}}
|- style="background: #fff6de;"
| {{color|5e824d|Friendship}} {{color|5e824d|→}}
|- style="background: #fff6de;"
| rowspan="2" | [[File:175Togepi.png|96px]] {{pcolor|Togepi|5e824d}} {{typecolor|Fairy}} {{color|5e824d|Egg Group:}} {{color2|5e824d|Undiscovered (Egg Group)|Undiscovered}}
| {{color|5e824d|←}} {{color2|5e824d|Pokémon breeding|Breed}}
| rowspan="2" | [[File:176Togetic.png|96px]] {{pcolor|Togetic|5e824d}} {{typecolor|Fairy}}{{typecolor|Flying}} {{color|5e824d|Egg Groups:}} {{color2|5e824d|Flying (Egg Group)|Flying}} {{color|5e824d|and}} {{color2|5e824d|Fairy (Egg Group)|Fairy}}
| rowspan="2" | {{color|5e824d|→}} {{color2|5e824d|Evolutionary stone#Shiny Stone|Shiny Stone}}
| rowspan="2" | [[File:468Togekiss.png|96px]] {{pcolor|Togekiss|5e824d}} {{typecolor|Fairy}}{{typecolor|Flying}} {{color|5e824d|Egg Groups:}} {{color2|5e824d|Flying (Egg Group)|Flying}} {{color|5e824d|and}} {{color2|5e824d|Fairy (Egg Group)|Fairy}}
|- style="background: #fff6de;"
| {{color|5e824d|Friendship}} {{color|5e824d|→}}
|- style="background: #fff6de;"
| rowspan="6" | [[File:236Tyrogue.png|96px]] {{pcolor|Tyrogue|5e824d}} {{typecolor|Fighting}} {{color|5e824d|Egg Group:}} {{color2|5e824d|Undiscovered (Egg Group)|Undiscovered}}
| {{color|5e824d|←}} {{color2|5e824d|Pokémon breeding|Breed}}
| rowspan="2" | [[File:106Hitmonlee.png|96px]] {{pcolor|Hitmonlee|5e824d}} {{typecolor|Fighting}} {{color|5e824d|Egg Group:}} {{color2|5e824d|Human-Like (Egg Group)|Human-Like}}
| rowspan="2" colspan="2" | {{color|5e824d|Hitmonlee does not evolve}}
|- style="background: #fff6de;"
| {{color2|5e824d|Level}} {{color|5e824d|20}} {{color2|5e824d|Stats#Attack|Attack}} {{color|5e824d|>}} {{color2|5e824d|Stats#Defense|Defense}} {{color|5e824d|→}}
|- style="background: #fff6de;"
| {{color|5e824d|←}} {{color2|5e824d|Pokémon breeding|Breed}}
| rowspan="2" | [[File:107Hitmonchan.png|96px]] {{pcolor|Hitmonchan|5e824d}} {{typecolor|Fighting}} {{color|5e824d|Egg Group:}} {{color2|5e824d|Human-Like (Egg Group)|Human-Like}}
| rowspan="2" colspan="2" | {{color|5e824d|Hitmonchan does not evolve}}
|- style="background: #fff6de;"
| {{color2|5e824d|Level}} {{color|5e824d|20}} {{color2|5e824d|Stats#Attack|Attack}} {{color|5e824d|<}} {{color2|5e824d|Stats#Defense|Defense}} {{color|5e824d|→}}
|- style="background: #fff6de;"
| {{color|5e824d|←}} {{color2|5e824d|Pokémon breeding|Breed}}
| rowspan="2" | [[File:237Hitmontop.png|96px]] {{pcolor|Hitmontop|5e824d}} {{typecolor|Fighting}} {{color|5e824d|Egg Group:}} {{color2|5e824d|Human-Like (Egg Group)|Human-Like}}
| rowspan="2" colspan="2" | {{color|5e824d|Hitmontop does not evolve}}
|- style="background: #fff6de;"
| {{color2|5e824d|Level}} {{color|5e824d|20}} {{color2|5e824d|Stats#Attack|Attack}} {{color|5e824d|<nowiki>=</nowiki>}} {{color2|5e824d|Stats#Defense|Defense}} {{color|5e824d|→}}
|- style="background: #fff6de;"
| rowspan="2" | [[File:238Smoochum.png|96px]] {{pcolor|Smoochum|5e824d}} {{typecolor|Ice}}{{typecolor|Psychic}} {{color|5e824d|Egg Group:}} {{color2|5e824d|Undiscovered (Egg Group)|Undiscovered}}
| {{color|5e824d|←}} {{color2|5e824d|Pokémon breeding|Breed}}
| rowspan="2" | [[File:124Jynx.png|96px]] {{pcolor|Jynx|5e824d}} {{typecolor|Ice}}{{typecolor|Psychic}} {{color|5e824d|Egg Group:}} {{color2|5e824d|Human-Like (Egg Group)|Human-Like}}
| rowspan="2" colspan="2" | {{color|5e824d|Jynx does not evolve}}
|- style="background: #fff6de;"
| {{color2|5e824d|Level}} {{color|5e824d|30}} {{color|5e824d|→}}
|- style="background: #fff6de;"
| rowspan="2" | [[File:239Elekid.png|96px]] {{pcolor|Elekid|5e824d}} {{typecolor|Electric}} {{color|5e824d|Egg Group:}} {{color2|5e824d|Undiscovered (Egg Group)|Undiscovered}}
| {{color|5e824d|←}} {{color2|5e824d|Pokémon breeding|Breed}}
| rowspan="2" | [[File:125Electabuzz.png|96px]] {{pcolor|Electabuzz|5e824d}} {{typecolor|Electric}} {{color|5e824d|Egg Group:}} {{color2|5e824d|Human-Like (Egg Group)|Human-Like}}
| rowspan="2" | {{color|5e824d|→}} {{color|5e824d|Trade}} {{color|5e824d|holding an}} {{color2|5e824d|Evolution-inducing held item#Electirizer|Electirizer}}
| rowspan="2" | [[File:466Electivire.png|96px]] {{pcolor|Electivire|5e824d}} {{typecolor|Electric}} {{color|5e824d|Egg Group:}} {{color2|5e824d|Human-Like (Egg Group)|Human-Like}}
|- style="background: #fff6de;"
| {{color2|5e824d|Level}} {{color|5e824d|30}} {{color|5e824d|→}}
|- style="background: #fff6de;"
| rowspan="2" | [[File:240Magby.png|96px]] {{pcolor|Magby|5e824d}} {{typecolor|Fire}} {{color|5e824d|Egg Group:}} {{color2|5e824d|Undiscovered (Egg Group)|Undiscovered}}
| {{color|5e824d|←}} {{color2|5e824d|Pokémon breeding|Breed}}
| rowspan="2" | [[File:126Magmar.png|96px]] {{pcolor|Magmar|5e824d}} {{typecolor|Fire}} {{color|5e824d|Egg Group:}} {{color2|5e824d|Human-Like (Egg Group)|Human-Like}}
| rowspan="2" | {{color|5e824d|→}} {{color|5e824d|Trade}} {{color|5e824d|holding a}} {{color2|5e824d|Evolution-inducing held item#Magmarizer|Magmarizer}}
| rowspan="2" | [[File:467Magmortar.png|96px]] {{pcolor|Magmortar|5e824d}} {{typecolor|Fire}} {{color|5e824d|Egg Group:}} {{color2|5e824d|Human-Like (Egg Group)|Human-Like}}
|- style="background: #fff6de;"
| {{color2|5e824d|Level}} {{color|5e824d|30}} {{color|5e824d|→}}
|- style="background: #fff6de;"
| rowspan="2" | [[File:298Azurill.png|96px]] {{pcolor|Azurill|5e824d}} {{typecolor|Normal}}{{typecolor|Fairy}} {{color|5e824d|Egg Group:}} {{color2|5e824d|Undiscovered (Egg Group)|Undiscovered}}
| {{color|5e824d|←}} {{color2|5e824d|Pokémon breeding|Breed}} {{color|5e824d|holding a}} {{color2|5e824d|Incense#Sea Incense|Sea Incense}}
| rowspan="2" | [[File:183Marill.png|96px]] {{pcolor|Marill|5e824d}} {{typecolor|Water}}{{typecolor|Fairy}} {{color|5e824d|Egg Groups:}} {{color2|5e824d|Water 1 (Egg Group)|Water 1}} {{color|5e824d|and}} {{color2|5e824d|Fairy (Egg Group)|Fairy}}
| rowspan="2" | {{color|5e824d|→}} {{color2|5e824d|Level}} {{color|5e824d|18}}
| rowspan="2" | [[File:184Azumarill.png|96px]] {{pcolor|Azumarill|5e824d}} {{typecolor|Water}}{{typecolor|Fairy}} {{color|5e824d|Egg Groups:}} {{color2|5e824d|Water 1 (Egg Group)|Water 1}} {{color|5e824d|and}} {{color2|5e824d|Fairy (Egg Group)|Fairy}}
|- style="background: #fff6de;"
| {{color2|5e824d|Friendship}} {{color|5e824d|→}}
|- style="background: #fff6de;"
| rowspan="2" | [[File:360Wynaut.png|96px]] {{pcolor|Wynaut|5e824d}} {{typecolor|Psychic}} {{color|5e824d|Egg Group:}} {{color2|5e824d|Undiscovered (Egg Group)|Undiscovered}}
| {{color|5e824d|←}} {{color2|5e824d|Pokémon breeding|Breed}} {{color|5e824d|holding a}} {{color2|5e824d|Incense#Lax Incense|Lax Incense}}
| rowspan="2" | [[File:202Wobbuffet.png|96px]] {{pcolor|Wobbuffet|5e824d}} {{typecolor|Psychic}} {{color|5e824d|Egg Group:}} {{color2|5e824d|Amorphous (Egg Group)|Amorphous}}
| rowspan="2" colspan="2" | {{color|5e824d|Wobbuffet does not evolve}}
|- style="background: #fff6de;"
| {{color2|5e824d|Level}} {{color|5e824d|15}} {{color|5e824d|→}}
|- style="background: #fff6de;"
| rowspan="2" | [[File:406Budew.png|96px]] {{pcolor|Budew|5e824d}} {{typecolor|Grass}}{{typecolor|Poison}} {{color|5e824d|Egg Group:}} {{color2|5e824d|Undiscovered (Egg Group)|Undiscovered}}
| {{color|5e824d|←}} {{color2|5e824d|Pokémon breeding|Breed}} {{color|5e824d|holding a}} {{color2|5e824d|Incense#Rose Incense|Rose Incense}}
| rowspan="2" | [[File:315Roselia.png|96px]] {{pcolor|Roselia|5e824d}} {{typecolor|Grass}}{{typecolor|Poison}} {{color|5e824d|Egg Groups:}} {{color2|5e824d|Fairy (Egg Group)|Fairy}} {{color|5e824d|and}} {{color2|5e824d|Grass (Egg Group)|Grass}}
| rowspan="2" | {{color|5e824d|→}} {{color2|5e824d|Evolutionary stone#Shiny Stone|Shiny Stone}}
| rowspan="2" | [[File:407Roserade.png|96px]] {{pcolor|Roserade|5e824d}} {{typecolor|Grass}}{{typecolor|Poison}} {{color|5e824d|Egg Groups:}} {{color2|5e824d|Fairy (Egg Group)|Fairy}} {{color|5e824d|and}} {{color2|5e824d|Grass (Egg Group)|Grass}}
|- style="background: #fff6de;"
| {{color2|5e824d|Friendship}} {{color|5e824d|(day)}} {{color|5e824d|→}}
|- style="background: #fff6de;"
| rowspan="2" | [[File:433Chingling.png|96px]] {{pcolor|Chingling|5e824d}} {{typecolor|Psychic}} {{color|5e824d|Egg Group:}} {{color2|5e824d|Undiscovered (Egg Group)|Undiscovered}}
| {{color|5e824d|←}} {{color2|5e824d|Pokémon breeding|Breed}} {{color|5e824d|holding a}} {{color2|5e824d|Incense#Pure Incense|Pure Incense}}
| rowspan="2" | [[File:358Chimecho.png|96px]] {{pcolor|Chimecho|5e824d}} {{typecolor|Psychic}} {{color|5e824d|Egg Group:}} {{color2|5e824d|Amorphous (Egg Group)|Amorphous}}
| rowspan="2" colspan="2" | {{color|5e824d|Chimecho does not evolve}}
|- style="background: #fff6de;"
| {{color2|5e824d|Friendship}} {{color|5e824d|(night)}} {{color|5e824d|→}}
|- style="background: #fff6de;"
| rowspan="2" | [[File:438Bonsly.png|96px]] {{pcolor|Bonsly|5e824d}} {{typecolor|Rock}} {{color|5e824d|Egg Group:}} {{color2|5e824d|Undiscovered (Egg Group)|Undiscovered}}
| {{color|5e824d|←}} {{color2|5e824d|Pokémon breeding|Breed}} {{color|5e824d|holding a}} {{color2|5e824d|Incense#Rock Incense|Rock Incense}}
| rowspan="2" | [[File:185Sudowoodo.png|96px]] {{pcolor|Sudowoodo|5e824d}} {{typecolor|Rock}} {{color|5e824d|Egg Group:}} {{color2|5e824d|Mineral (Egg Group)|Mineral}}
| rowspan="2" colspan="2" | {{color|5e824d|Sudowoodo does not evolve}}
|- style="background: #fff6de;"
| {{color2|5e824d|Level}} {{color|5e824d|up}} {{color|5e824d|knowing}} {{mcolor|Mimic|5e824d}} {{color|5e824d|→}}
|- style="background: #fff6de;"
| rowspan="2" | [[File:439Mime_Jr.png|96px]] {{pcolor|Mime Jr.|5e824d}} {{typecolor|Psychic}}{{typecolor|Fairy}} {{color|5e824d|Egg Group:}} {{color2|5e824d|Undiscovered (Egg Group)|Undiscovered}}
| {{color|5e824d|←}} {{color2|5e824d|Pokémon breeding|Breed}} {{color|5e824d|holding an}} {{color2|5e824d|Incense#Odd Incense|Odd Incense}}
| rowspan="2" | [[File:122Mr._Mime.png|96px]] {{pcolor|Mr. Mime|5e824d}} {{typecolor|Psychic}}{{typecolor|Fairy}} {{color|5e824d|Egg Group:}} {{color2|5e824d|Human-Like (Egg Group)|Human-Like}}
| rowspan="2" colspan="2" | {{color|5e824d|Mr. Mime does not evolve}}
|- style="background: #fff6de;"
| {{color2|5e824d|Level}} {{color|5e824d|up}} {{color|5e824d|knowing}} {{mcolor|Mimic|5e824d}} {{color|5e824d|→}}
|- style="background: #fff6de;"
| rowspan="2" | [[File:440Happiny.png|96px]] {{pcolor|Happiny|5e824d}} {{typecolor|Normal}} {{color|5e824d|Egg Group:}} {{color2|5e824d|Undiscovered (Egg Group)|Undiscovered}}
| {{color|5e824d|←}} {{color2|5e824d|Pokémon breeding|Breed}} {{color|5e824d|holding a}} {{color2|5e824d|Incense#Luck Incense|Luck Incense}}
| rowspan="2" | [[File:113Chansey.png|96px]] {{pcolor|Chansey|5e824d}} {{typecolor|Normal}} {{color|5e824d|Egg Group:}} {{color2|5e824d|Fairy (Egg Group)|Fairy}}
| rowspan="2" | {{color|5e824d|→}} {{color2|5e824d|Friendship}}
| rowspan="2" | [[File:242Blissey.png|96px]] {{pcolor|Blissey|5e824d}} {{typecolor|Normal}} {{color|5e824d|Egg Group:}} {{color2|5e824d|Fairy (Egg Group)|Fairy}}
|- style="background: #fff6de;"
| {{color2|5e824d|Level}} {{color|5e824d|up}} {{color|5e824d|holding an}} {{color2|5e824d|Evolution-inducing held item#Oval Stone|Oval Stone}} {{color|5e824d|(day)}} {{color|5e824d|→}}
|- style="background: #fff6de;"
| rowspan="2" | [[File:446Munchlax.png|96px]] {{pcolor|Munchlax|5e824d}} {{typecolor|Normal}} {{color|5e824d|Egg Group:}} {{color2|5e824d|Undiscovered (Egg Group)|Undiscovered}}
| {{color|5e824d|←}} {{color2|5e824d|Pokémon breeding|Breed}} {{color|5e824d|holding a}} {{color2|5e824d|Incense#Full Incense|Full Incense}}
| rowspan="2" | [[File:143Snorlax.png|96px]] {{pcolor|Snorlax|5e824d}} {{typecolor|Normal}} {{color|5e824d|Egg Group:}} {{color2|5e824d|Monster (Egg Group)|Monster}}
| rowspan="2" colspan="2" | {{color|5e824d|Snorlax does not evolve}}
|- style="background: #fff6de;"
| {{color2|5e824d|Friendship}} {{color|5e824d|→}}
|- style="background: #fff6de;"
| rowspan="2" | [[File:447Riolu.png|96px]] {{pcolor|Riolu|5e824d}} {{typecolor|Fighting}} {{color|5e824d|Egg Group:}} {{color2|5e824d|Undiscovered (Egg Group)|Undiscovered}}
| {{color|5e824d|←}} {{color2|5e824d|Pokémon breeding|Breed}}
| rowspan="2" | [[File:448Lucario.png|96px]] {{pcolor|Lucario|5e824d}} {{typecolor|Fighting}}{{typecolor|Steel}} {{color|5e824d|Egg Groups:}} {{color2|5e824d|Field (Egg Group)|Field}} {{color|5e824d|and}} {{color2|5e824d|Human-Like (Egg Group)|Human-Like}}
| rowspan="2" colspan="2" | {{color|5e824d|Lucario does not evolve}}
|- style="background: #fff6de;"
| {{color2|5e824d|Friendship}} {{color|5e824d|(day)}} {{color|5e824d|→}}
|-
| style="background: #fff6de; {{roundybl|5px}}" rowspan="2" | [[File:458Mantyke.png|96px]] {{pcolor|Mantyke|5e824d}} {{typecolor|Water}}{{typecolor|Flying}} {{color|5e824d|Egg Group:}} {{color2|5e824d|Undiscovered (Egg Group)|Undiscovered}}
| style="background: #fff6de;" | {{color|5e824d|←}} {{color2|5e824d|Pokémon breeding|Breed}} {{color|5e824d|holding a}} {{color2|5e824d|Incense#Wave Incense|Wave Incense}}
| style="background: #fff6de;" rowspan="2" | [[File:226Mantine.png|96px]] {{pcolor|Mantine|5e824d}} {{typecolor|Water}}{{typecolor|Flying}} {{color|5e824d|Egg Group:}} {{color2|5e824d|Water 1 (Egg Group)|Water 1}}
| style="background: #fff6de; {{roundybr|5px}}" rowspan="2" colspan="2;" | {{color|5e824d|Mantine does not evolve}}
|- style="background: #fff6de;"
| {{color2|5e824d|Level}} {{color|5e824d|up}} {{color|5e824d|with}} {{pcolor|Remoraid|5e824d}} {{color|5e824d|in}} {{color2|5e824d|party}} {{color|5e824d|→}}
|}

==In the anime==
[[File:Baby Pokémon anime.png|thumb|250px|Several baby Pokémon and a {{p|Teddiursa}} in ''[[DP190|The Brockster Is In!]]'']]
All baby Pokémon have appeared in the anime so far, with some belonging to main characters. While most of them appear in the [[Pikachu short]]s regularly, all have had major appearances in the anime. In some cases, other newborn Pokémon are called baby Pokémon as well.

Baby Pokémon usually have childish personalities, but some begin to show signs of maturity after gaining experience or evolving, such as when [[Brock's Bonsly]] gave up bottle-feeding. However, [[Paul's Elekid]] was shown to have inherited his harsh personality. This is not limited to owned Pokémon, as ''[[DP142|Where No Togepi Has Gone Before!]]'' portrays a wild {{p|Togepi}} with mischievous intentions.

Pichu first appeared in ''[[EP179|The Apple Corp]]'' stealing apples from {{an|Charmaine}}'s apple orchard.

In ''[[EP246|Wish Upon a Star Shape]]'', a Cleffa fell from a spaceship that belonged to the kleptomaniac {{p|Clefairy}} from ''[[EP062|Clefairy Tales]]''.

Igglybuff twins belonging to {{jo|Brittany}} appeared in ''[[EP243|Same Old Song and Dance]]'' practicing for a concert.

An abandoned Tyrogue appeared in ''[[EP233|A Tyrogue Full of Trouble]]''.

In ''[[EP203|The Screen Actor's Guilt]]'', [[Brad Van Darn]] owned a Smoochum. His agent is afraid that Brad's image as an action star would be ruined if this was made public.

A {{pkmn|Trainer}} named [[Satchel]] was trying to get his Magby to evolve for the Silver Conference in ''[[EP262|You're A Star, Larvitar]]'' and succeeded. It reappeared in ''[[EP263|Address Unown!]]'' where it was part of an {{p|Unown}}'s dimension.

Three Chingling appeared in ''[[DP070|The Bells Are Singing!]]'' under [[Francesca]]'s ownership.

{{Ash}} used a Mantyke for the second leg of the Pokémon Triathlon in ''[[DP091|One Team, Two Team, Red Team, Blue Team!]]''.

Several baby Pokémon including Pichu, Cleffa, Wynaut, Smoochum, Igglybuff and Azurill appeared in ''[[DP190|The Brockster Is In!]]''.

===Misty's Togepi===
{{main|Misty's Togepi}}
In ''[[EP046|Attack of the Prehistoric Pokémon]]'', Ash finds an Egg that hatches into a {{p|Togepi}} in ''[[EP050|Who Gets to Keep Togepi?]]''. Since Misty is the first thing the Baby Pokémon sees, it believes she is its mother. It later evolved in ''[[AG045|A Togepi Mirage]]''.

===Paul's Elekid===
{{main|Paul's Elekid}}
[[Paul]] owned an {{p|Elekid}} that he used to battle [[Ash's Pikachu]] in ''[[DP003|When Pokémon Worlds Collide!]]'' and [[Roark]] in ''[[DP015|Shapes of Things to Come]]''. It evolved into {{p|Electabuzz}} in ''[[DP052|Smells Like Team Spirit]]'', and evolved into {{p|Electivire}} off-screen, prior to ''[[DP184|Casting a Paul on Barry!]]''.

===Misty's Azurill===
{{main|Misty's Azurill}}
{{an|Misty}} was seen with an {{p|Azurill}} in ''[[AG132|The Scheme Team]]'', it was hatched from the egg that [[Tracey's Marill]] produced.

===Recurring Wynaut===
{{main|Recurring wild Pokémon in the anime#Wynaut|Wynaut (anime)}}
{{p|Wynaut}} first appeared during the [[Blackthorn City]] arc (''[[EP252|Fangs for Nothin']]'' - ''[[EP255|Why? Wynaut!]]''), but [[Jessie's Wobbuffet]], [[Ash's Bayleef]] and [[Ash's Noctowl]] were the only ones to see it.

===Nando's Budew===
{{main|Nando's Budew}}
{{p|Budew}} made its first major appearance in ''[[DP004|Dawn of a New Era!]]''. It was owned by a minstrel called [[Nando]] and used in battle against [[Dawn's Piplup]] and [[Ash's Pikachu]]. It evolved into {{p|Roselia}} in the second battle. It later evolved into {{p|Roserade}} prior to ''[[DP176|Coming Full-Festival Circle!]]''.

===Brock's Bonsly===
{{main|Brock's Bonsly}}
In ''[[AG156|From Cradle to Save]]'', {{an|Brock}} captured a {{p|Bonsly}} and took care of him. He evolved into {{p|Sudowoodo}} in ''[[DP014|Leave it To Brocko!]]''.

===James's Mime Jr.===
{{main|James's Mime Jr.}}
[[James]] obtained a Mime Jr. from his "[[Nanny and Pop-Pop]]" in ''[[AG147|Sweet Baby James]]''.

===Brock's Happiny===
{{main|Brock's Happiny}}
{{an|Brock}}'s {{pkmn|Egg}} hatched into a {{p|Happiny}} in ''[[DP038|One Big Happiny Family!]]''. Unusually, in contrast to Happiny's extremely low Attack stat in the {{pkmn|games}}, she has amazing strength and can run with, pummel, and carry many heavy items and Pokémon for its size, such as having the ability to fling her Trainer into the air with ease and carrying [[Ash's Grotle]] around in ''[[DP103|Jumping Rocket Ship!]]''. She evolved into a Chansey in ''[[DP190|The Brockster Is In!]]''.

===May's Munchlax===
{{main|May's Munchlax}}
{{an|May}} captured a {{p|Munchlax}} in ''[[AG117|Berry, Berry Interesting]]'' and has used it in several {{pkmn|Contest}}s. It is her only Pokémon that likes her cooking.

===Aura Sphere Riolu===
{{main|Aura Sphere Riolu}}
{{p|Riolu}} was featured in [[DP071|both]] [[DP072|parts]] of ''Pokémon Ranger and the Kidnapped Riolu!''. This Riolu had been trained to use {{m|Aura Sphere}} and was unnaturally strong. It was taken away from the lab by [[J's henchmen]] to exploit it, but {{Ash}} and {{ashfr}} returned it to [[Lucario Kingdom|its kingdom]] with [[Kellyn]]'s help. This Riolu developed a strong bond with {{Ash}}.

===Cameron's Riolu===
{{main|Cameron's Riolu}}
{{un|Cameron}}'s {{p|Riolu}} first appeared with its Trainer in ''[[BW093|Goodbye, Junior Cup - Hello Adventure!]]''. It evolved into {{p|Lucario}} in ''[[BW107|Cameron's Secret Weapon!]]''.

==In the TCG==
This listing is of cards mentioning or featuring Baby Pokémon in the [[Pokémon Trading Card Game]]. All of these cards have the [[Pokémon Power (TCG)|Poké-Body]] "Sweet Sleeping Face".
{{cardlist/header|Baby Pokémon|colorless|char=yes}}
{{cardlist/entry|cardname={{TCG ID|HeartGold & SoulSilver|Cleffa|17}}|type=Colorless|enset=HeartGold & SoulSilver|enrarity=Rare|ennum=17/123|jpset=HeartGold Collection|jprarity=Rare Holo|jpnum=049/070}}
{{cardlist/entry|cardname={{TCG ID|HeartGold & SoulSilver|Pichu|28}}|type=Lightning|enset=HeartGold & SoulSilver|enrarity=Rare|ennum=28/123|jpset=SoulSilver Collection|jprarity=Rare Holo|jpnum=031/070}}
{{cardlist/entry|cardname={{TCG ID|HeartGold & SoulSilver|Smoochum|30}}|type=Psychic|enset=HeartGold & SoulSilver|enrarity=Rare|ennum=30/123|jpset=HeartGold Collection|jprarity=Rare Holo|jpnum=037/070}}
{{cardlist/entry|cardname={{TCG ID|HeartGold & SoulSilver|Tyrogue|33}}|type=Fighting|enset=HeartGold & SoulSilver|enrarity=Rare|ennum=33/123|jpset=SoulSilver Collection|jprarity=Rare|jpnum=048/070}}
{{cardlist/entry|cardname={{TCG ID|HeartGold & SoulSilver|Igglybuff|44}}|type=Colorless|enset=HeartGold & SoulSilver|enrarity=Uncommon|ennum=44/123|jpset=SoulSilver Collection|jprarity=Uncommon|jpnum=050/070}}
{{cardlist/entry|cardname={{TCG ID|Triumphant|Elekid|21}}|type=Lightning|enset=Triumphant|enrarity=Rare|ennum=21/102|jpset=Clash at the Summit|jprarity=Rare|jpnum=028/080}}
{{cardlist/entry|cardname={{TCG ID|Triumphant|Magby|41}}|type=Fire|enset=Triumphant|enrarity=Common|ennum=41/102|jpset=Clash at the Summit|jprarity=Rare|jpnum=012/080}}
{{cardlist/entry|cardname={{TCG ID|Call of Legends|Cleffa|24}}|type=Colorless|enset=Call of Legends|enrarity=Rare|ennum=24/95}}
{{cardlist/entry|cardname={{TCG ID|Call of Legends|Tyrogue|36}}|type=Fighting|enset=Call of Legends|enrarity=Rare|ennum=36/95}}
{{cardlist/entry|cardname={{TCG ID|Call of Legends|Magby|46}}|type=Fire|enset=Call of Legends|enrarity=Uncommon|ennum=46/95}}
{{cardlist/entry|cardname={{TCG ID|Call of Legends|Mime Jr.|47}}|type=Psychic|enset=Call of Legends|enrarity=Uncommon|ennum=47/95|jpset=Lost Link|jprarity=Uncommon|jpnum=016/040}}
{{cardlist/footer|colorless}}

==Trivia==
[[File:Misty Azurill and Cleffa.png|right|thumb|200px|Three baby Pokémon interacting with each other.]]
* Out of eighteen baby Pokémon, seven of them evolve into Pokémon belonging to the {{egg3|Fairy}} and six others evolve into Pokémon that belong to the {{egg3|Human-Like}}.
* Of all post-Generation II baby Pokémon, only Azurill and Munchlax evolve by friendship alone (not requiring a certain time of day). In the anime, these two baby Pokémon are owned by two of [[Ash Ketchum]]'s previous traveling companions, {{an|Misty}} and {{an|May}}.
*All baby Pokémon that were introduced in Generation II that evolve by friendship can evolve further using evolutionary stones.
*{{p|Tyrogue}} is the only baby Pokémon with a branched evolution.
*{{p|Riolu}} is the only baby Pokémon introduced after Generation II that can be bred without requiring one of its parents to be holding an incense.
* Most baby Pokémon can learn {{m|Uproar}} via [[Move Tutor]], while their evolved forms cannot.
* {{an|May}}, [[James]], and {{an|Brock}} got their baby Pokémon ({{TP|May|Munchlax}}, {{TP|James|Mime Jr.}}, and {{TP|Brock|Bonsly}} respectively) following the pattern of premiering in a movie and then being captured by one of the main characters. In all cases, the premiered Pokémon is not the same character as the one caught, just the same species. In some cases, this may be a result of the writers deciding a Pokémon works well with the group after they are shown together. Munchlax came after ''[[M07|Destiny Deoxys]]'' and Mime Jr. and Bonsly came after ''[[M08|Lucario and the Mystery of Mew]].''

==See also==
* [[Methods of evolution]]

[[Category:Pokémon world]]
[[Category:Terminology]]

[[pl:Baby Pokémon]]

[[de:Baby-Pokémon]]
[[fr:Bébé Pokémon]]
[[it:Pokémon Baby]]
[[ja:ベイビィポケモン]]
[[zh:幼年神奇宝贝]]

Cerulean City

2015-10-13T16:23:10Z

Ericss: No he doesn't

{{Samename|chapter in [[Pokémon Zensho]]|PZ03}}
----
{{Town infobox
|name=Cerulean City
|jpname=ハナダシティ
|jptrans=Hanada City
|image=Cerulean City HGSS.png
|imageI=Cerulean City RBY.png
|imageII=Cerulean City GSC.png
|imageIII=Cerulean City FRLG.png
|slogan=The Floral Lagoon City
|region=Kanto
|north=Route 24
|south=Route 5
|west=Route 4
|east=Route 9
|regionnorth=Kanto
|regionsouth=Kanto
|regionwest=Kanto
|regioneast=Kanto
|mapdesc=A beautiful city with flowing water and blooming flowers.
|gym=Cerulean Gym
|gymno=2
|leader=Misty
|leadervs=VSMisty.png
|badge=Cascade
|gymtype=Water
|colordark=007BA7
|colormed=3F9BBC
|colorlight=7FBCD2
}}

'''Cerulean City''' (Japanese: '''ハナダシティ''' ''Hanada City'') is a seaside city located in northern [[Kanto]]. It is situated near a sea inlet to the north, with [[Saffron City]] to the south, and [[Mt. Moon]] to the west. It is home to [[Misty]], the Cerulean City [[Gym Leader]].

The city is one of only two cities in [[Kanto]] to have four different [[route]]s enter the city, the other being [[Saffron City]]. Cerulean is a mid-sized city with a few attractions, including the [[Miracle Cycle|Bike Shop]] and the [[Berry Powder]] man.

==Slogan==
===Generations I-III===
'''''A Mysterious, Blue Aura Surrounds It''''' (Japanese: '''ハナダは　みずいろ　しんぴのいろ''' ''Hanada is the color of aqua mysteries.'')

===Generation IV===
'''''The Floral Lagoon City''''' (Japanese: '''はなさく　みずの　まち''' ''The town of bursting water.'')

==Places of interest==
===Bike Shop===
[[File:Miracle Cycle FRLG inside.png|thumb|200px|The Bike Shop in {{game|FireRed and LeafGreen|s}}]]
{{main|Miracle Cycle}}

In [[Generation I]], the Bike Shop sells Bicycles produced by the company. Designs range from a plain city bike to a fast mountain bike; however, the {{player}} can only ever get one: the [[Bicycle]]. It can be bought for {{PDollar}}1,000,000 or exchanged for a {{key|III|Bike Voucher}}. As only {{PDollar}}999,999 can be held at maximum, there is no way for the player to obtain a Bicycle without a Bike Voucher. The [[Pokémon Fan Club Chairman]] in [[Vermilion City]] will hand over his Bike Voucher if the player listens to him talk about his {{p|Rapidash}}.

In [[Generation II]], the shop is closed because the owner decided to move the shop to [[Goldenrod City]] in the [[Johto]] region. In {{game|HeartGold and SoulSilver|s}}, however, the shop in [[Kanto]] is also open, although nothing is obtainable inside. The manager mentions that since all the bicycles have been shipped to Johto for sale, all he has left to sell are inflatable tubes. The ''That Town, These People'' radio show profile of Cerulean City mentions this as well.

The name "Miracle Cycle" only appears in the Japanese {{pkmn|games}}. In the English versions, the Miracle Cycle Shops are just called "Bike Shops" and no mention of Miracle Cycle is made at all.

===Cerulean Cave===
{{main|Cerulean Cave}}
On the outskirts of Cerulean City lies Cerulean Cave, also known as the Unknown Dungeon. It is said to be home to "horribly strong {{OBP|Pokémon|species}}". The player can capture the [[level]] 70 {{p|Mewtwo}} in the [[Generation]] {{gen|I}}, {{gen|III}}, and {{gen|IV}} games. Only {{pkmn|Trainer}}s who compete and win in the [[Pokémon League]] at [[Indigo Plateau]] may enter due to the strength of the Pokémon in the cave. Mewtwo lies at the end of the cave, the only one of its species in the game.

Another addition in {{2v2|FireRed|LeafGreen}} is that Trainers are now required to further prove themselves before entering the cave by completing the quest on the [[Sevii Islands]] and restoring the Network Machine of the [[Pokémon Network Center]] to operational status. This stipulation may or may not have been added due to the addition of {{p|Wobbuffet}} to the cave's selection of wild Pokémon, and the old set of requirements that would have allowed players to enter the cave before obtaining the National Pokédex.

In Generation II, the Dungeon has collapsed, but Mewtwo's {{DL|In-battle effect item|Berserk Gene}} has been left behind. In HeartGold and SoulSilver, however, the cave is still open. The [[Pokégear]] map mentions that it once collapsed but was rebuilt, and Mewtwo can still be found inside.

===Cerulean Gym===
{{main|Cerulean Gym}}
[[File:Cerulean Gym FRLG.png|thumb|200px|Cerulean Gym in {{game|FireRed and LeafGreen|s}}]]
The Cerulean Gym is the official [[Gym]] of Cerulean City. It is based on {{type|Water}} {{OBP|Pokémon|species}}. The [[Gym Leader]] is [[Misty]]. {{pkmn|Trainer}}s who defeat her will receive the {{Badge|Cascade}}. Other known Gym members include {{tc|Swimmer}} Briana, Swimmer Parker, Swimmer Diana, Swimmer Luis, and {{tc|Picnicker}} Diana. The Cerulean Gym is designed like an indoor swimming pool, with platforms above the water for the player to walk on. There are no puzzles to solve in this Gym.

===Berry Powder man===
In FireRed and LeafGreen, there is a man in a cottage in the northern part of town who concocts a variety of medicines from [[Berry Powder]] and will exchange Berry Powder for rare and valuable [[item]]s. When he is first visited, he gives the player the {{key|III|Powder Jar}}, and will ask the player to make some Berry Powder from the new machine that crushes Berries in the [[Pokémon Center]] upstairs. There is also a sign on his wall that keeps a record of pressing-speed ranking the player achieves.

{{shop|Berry Powder}}
{{shoprow|{{shopitem|EnergyPowder|50|Units}}|{{shopitem|Energy Root|80|Units}}}}
{{shoprow|{{shopitem|Heal Powder|50|Units}}|{{shopitem|Revival Herb|300|Units}}}}
{{shoprow|{{shopitem|Protein|1,000|Units}}|{{shopitem|Iron|1,000|Units}}}}
{{shoprow|{{shopitem|Carbos|1,000|Units}}|{{shopitem|Calcium|1,000|Units}}}}
{{shoprow|{{shopitem|Zinc|1,000|Units}}|{{shopitem|HP Up|1,000|Units}}}}
{{shoprow|{{shopitem|PP Up|3,000|Units}}}}
{{shopfooter}}

===Gym Badge man===
In Generations I and III, there is a man in a cottage in the northwest corner of the city who will explain exactly what the effects are for each of the eight {{DL|Badge|Indigo League}} [[Badge|Gym Badges]]. He also has a small backyard, where a {{DL|Vitamin|Rare Candy}} can be found hidden among the flowers.

===Burgled house===
In Generations I and III, a {{tc|Team Rocket Grunt}} stole {{TM|28|Dig}} from its owner, leaving the house a mess. After defeating the Grunt, the player will receive the [[TM]] from him. The owner then says that since the TM was stolen, he'll find a way of teaching Dig to {{p|Diglett}} without a TM.

The house is initially inaccessible because a Cerulean Police {{tc|Officer}} ([[Officer Jenny]] in {{v2|Yellow}}) blocks the door. The officer will only move aside from the door after the player talks to [[Bill]] at his [[Sea Cottage]] on {{rt|25|Kanto}}.

In Generations II and IV, the man is actively fighting against robbers so the situation that occurred to him and his wife three years prior does not happen again. When he learns about the Team Rocket Grunt who stole the {{key|IV|Machine Part}}, he gets upset and claims that he won't even reconsider not reporting the Team Rocket Grunt if he turns out to be the same thief from three years ago.

A notice outside the house in [[Generation II]] and {{2v2|HeartGold|SoulSilver}} reads:

{{sign|DPtip|header}}
{{sign|DPtip|There's a notice here...}}
{{sign|DPtip|Stamp out thievery and make the city}}
{{sign|DPtip|a friendlier, more cheerful place!}}
{{sign|DPtip|Cerulean Police}}
{{sign|DPtip|footer}}

==Demographics==
===Pokémon Red, Blue, and Yellow===
In {{game2|Red|Blue|Yellow}}, the population of Cerulean City is 27.

===Pokémon Gold, Silver, and Crystal===
In {{game2|Gold|Silver|Crystal}}, the population of Cerulean City is 24. The decrease in population is due to the Bike Shop moving to Goldenrod CIty.

===Pokémon FireRed and LeafGreen===
In {{game|FireRed and LeafGreen|s}}, the population of Cerulean City is 32.

===Pokémon HeartGold and SoulSilver===
In {{game|HeartGold and SoulSilver|s}}, the population of Cerulean City is 33, having increased by one since {{game|FireRed and LeafGreen|s}}.

==Poké Mart==
{{shop|Generation I}}
{{shoprow|{{shopitem|Poké Ball|200}}|{{shopitem|Potion|300}}}}
{{shoprow|{{shopitem|Escape Rope|550|PD|note={{sup/1|Y}}}}|{{shopitem|Repel|350}}}}
{{shoprow|{{shopitem|Antidote|100}}|{{shopitem|Burn Heal|250}}}}
{{shoprow|{{shopitem|Awakening|200}}|{{shopitem|Parlyz Heal|200}}}}
{{shopfooter|multiple=yes}}
{{shop|Generation II}}
{{shoprow|{{shopitem|Great Ball|600}}|{{shopitem|Ultra Ball|1200}}}}
{{shoprow|{{shopitem|Super Potion|700}}|{{shopitem|Super Repel|500}}}}
{{shoprow|{{shopitem|Full Heal|600}}|{{shopitem|X Defend|550}}}}
{{shoprow|{{shopitem|X Attack|500}}|{{shopitem|Dire Hit|650}}}}
{{shoprow|{{shopitem|Surf Mail|50|5=unknown}}}}
{{shopfooter|multiple=yes}}
{{shop|Generation III}}
{{shoprow|{{shopitem|Poké Ball|200}}|{{shopitem|Super Potion|700}}}}
{{shoprow|{{shopitem|Potion|300}}|{{shopitem|Antidote|100}}}}
{{shoprow|{{shopitem|Parlyz Heal|200}}|{{shopitem|Awakening|250}}}}
{{shoprow|{{shopitem|Burn Heal|250}}|{{shopitem|Escape Rope|550}}}}
{{shoprow|{{shopitem|Repel|350}}}}
{{shopfooter}}
{{shop|Lower cashier (Generation IV)}}
{{shoprow|{{shopitem|Poké Ball|200}}|{{shopitem|Great Ball|600}}}}
{{shoprow|{{shopitem|Ultra Ball|1200}}|{{shopitem|Potion|300}}}}
{{shoprow|{{shopitem|Super Potion|700}}|{{shopitem|Hyper Potion|1200}}}}
{{shoprow|{{shopitem|Max Potion|2500}}|{{shopitem|Full Restore|3000}}}}
{{shoprow|{{shopitem|Revive|1500}}|{{shopitem|Antidote|100}}}}
{{shoprow|{{shopitem|Parlyz Heal|200}}|{{shopitem|Awakening|250}}}}
{{shoprow|{{shopitem|Burn Heal|250}}|{{shopitem|Ice Heal|250}}}}
{{shoprow|{{shopitem|Full Heal|600}}|{{shopitem|Escape Rope|550}}}}
{{shoprow|{{shopitem|Repel|350}}|{{shopitem|Super Repel|500}}}}
{{shoprow|{{shopitem|Max Repel|700}}|}}
{{shopfooter|multiple=yes}}
{{shop|Upper cashier (Generation IV)}}
{{shoprow|{{shopitem|Air Mail|50}}|{{shopitem|Quick Ball|1000}}}}
{{shopfooter}}

==Items==
{{Itlisth|road}}
{{Itemlist|Fab Mail|Held by ZYNX, a {{p|Jynx}} the {{player}} can obtain in a {{DL|List of in-game trades|Generation III|trade}}|FR=yes|LG=yes|display={{DL|Mail|Fab Mail}}}}
{{Itemlist|Fame Checker|Received from {{ga|Blue}} after defeating him|FR=yes|LG=yes}}
{{Itemlist|Powder Jar|Received from an old man in the house second to the right of [[Cerulean Cave]]|FR=yes|LG=yes}}
{{Itemlist|Bicycle|Received from Bike Shop Owner in return for a {{key|I|Bike Voucher|Bike}} {{key|III|Bike Voucher|Voucher}}|R=yes|B=yes|Y=yes|FR=yes|LG=yes}}
{{Itemlist|Rare Candy|In the backyard of the Gym Badge man's house ''(hidden)''|R=yes|B=yes|Y=yes|FR=yes|LG=yes|display={{DL|Vitamin|Rare Candy}}}}
{{Itemlist|TM Ground|Received from {{tc|Team Rocket Grunt}} after defeating him|R=yes|B=yes|Y=yes|FR=yes|LG=yes|display={{TM|28|Dig}}}}
{{Itemlist|None|Near where the entrance to [[Cerulean Cave]] would have been (requires {{m|Surf}}) ''(hidden)''|G=yes|S=yes|C=yes|display={{DL|In-battle effect item|Berserk Gene}}}}
{{Itemlist|Nugget|Southeast of the entrance to Cerulean Cave (requires {{m|Surf}}) ''(hidden)''|HG=yes|SS=yes|display={{DL|Valuable item|Nugget}}}}
{{Itlistfoot|road}}

==Pokémon==
[[Wild Pokémon]] can be found in the water inside the [[Cerulean Gym]] ([[Generation I]] only), as well as in the channel along the northwest edge of town.

In the house next to the [[Pokémon Center]], there is a man who will [[trade]] his {{p|Jynx}} for a {{p|Poliwhirl}} in {{game|Red and Blue|s}} and {{game|FireRed and LeafGreen|s}}.

===Generation I===
{{Catch/header|road|no}}
{{Catch/div|water|Fishing}}
{{Catch/entry1|129|Magikarp|yes|yes|yes|Fish Old|5|100%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entry1|060|Poliwag|yes|yes|yes|Fish Good|10|50%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entry1|118|Goldeen|yes|yes|yes|Fish Good|10|50%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entry1|054|Psyduck|yes|yes|no|Fish Super|15|33%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entry1|098|Krabby|yes|yes|no|Fish Super|15|33%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entry1|118|Goldeen|yes|yes|no|Fish Super|15|33%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entry1|118|Goldeen|no|no|yes|Fish Super|25, 30|70%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entry1|119|Seaking|no|no|yes|Fish Super|30, 40|30%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/div|road|Gift Pokémon}}
{{Catch/entry1|001|Bulbasaur|no|no|yes|Gift|10|One|type1=Grass|type2=Poison}}
{{Catch/div|road|Special}}
{{Catch/entry1|124|Jynx|yes|yes|no|Trade|tradenum=061|tradename=Poliwhirl|The same as the Traded Pokémon|One|type1=Ice|type2=Psychic}}
{{Catch/footer|road}}

===Generation II===
{{Catch/header|road|yes}}
{{Catch/div|water|Surfing}}
{{Catch/entry2|118|Goldeen|yes|yes|yes|Surf|5-14|all=90%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entry2|119|Seaking|yes|yes|yes|Surf|10-14|all=10%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/div|water|Fishing}}
{{Catch/entry2|129|Magikarp|yes|yes|yes|Fish Old|10|all=85%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entry2|098|Krabby|yes|yes|yes|Fish Old|10|all=15%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entry2|098|Krabby|yes|yes|yes|Fish Good|20|all=55%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entry2|129|Magikarp|yes|yes|yes|Fish Good|20|all=35%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entry2|222|Corsola|yes|yes|yes|Fish Good|20|10%|10%|0%|type1=Water|type2=Rock}}
{{Catch/entry2|120|Staryu|yes|yes|yes|Fish Good|20|0%|0%|10%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entry2|098|Krabby|yes|yes|yes|Fish Super|40|all=60%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entry2|222|Corsola|yes|yes|yes|Fish Super|40|30%|30%|0%|type1=Water|type2=Rock}}
{{Catch/entry2|120|Staryu|yes|yes|yes|Fish Super|40|0%|0%|30%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entry2|099|Kingler|yes|yes|yes|Fish Super|40|all=10%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/div|building|Inside Gym}}
{{Catch/div|water|Fishing}}

{{Catch/entry2|098|Krabby|yes|yes|yes|Fish Old|10|all=100%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entry2|098|Krabby|yes|yes|yes|Fish Good|20|all=60%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entry2|222|Corsola|yes|yes|yes|Fish Good|20|30%|30%|0%|type1=Water|type2=Rock}}
{{Catch/entry2|120|Staryu|yes|yes|yes|Fish Good|20|0%|0%|30%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entry2|098|Krabby|yes|yes|yes|Fish Super|40|all=60%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entry2|222|Corsola|yes|yes|yes|Fish Super|40|30%|30%|0%|type1=Water|type2=Rock}}
{{Catch/entry2|120|Staryu|yes|yes|yes|Fish Super|40|0%|0%|30%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entry2|099|Kingler|yes|yes|yes|Fish Super|40|all=10%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/footer|road}}

===Generation III===
{{Catch/header|road|no}}
{{Catch/div|water|Surfing}}
{{Catch/entryfl|072|Tentacool|yes|yes|Surf|5-40|100%|type1=Water|type2=Poison}}
{{Catch/div|water|Fishing}}
{{Catch/entryfl|129|Magikarp|yes|yes|Fish Old|5|100%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entryfl|116|Horsea|yes|no|Fish Good|5-15|60%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entryfl|116|Horsea|no|yes|Fish Good|5-15|20%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entryfl|098|Krabby|yes|no|Fish Good|5-15|20%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entryfl|098|Krabby|no|yes|Fish Good|5-15|60%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entryfl|129|Magikarp|yes|yes|Fish Good|5-15|20%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entryfl|116|Horsea|yes|no|Fish Super|15-35|84%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entryfl|098|Krabby|no|yes|Fish Super|15-35|84%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entryfl|130|Gyarados|yes|yes|Fish Super|15-25|15%|type1=Water|type2=Flying}}
{{Catch/entryfl|054|Psyduck|yes|no|Fish Super|25-35|1%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entryfl|079|Slowpoke|no|yes|Fish Super|25-35|1%|type1=Water|type2=Psychic}}
{{Catch/div|road|Special}}
{{Catch/entryfl|124|Jynx|yes|yes|Trade|tradenum=061|tradename=Poliwhirl|The same as the Traded Pokémon|One|type1=Ice|type2=Psychic}}
{{catch/footer|road}}

===Generation IV===
{{Catch/header|road|4}}
{{Catch/div|water|Surfing}}
{{Catch/entryhs|118|Goldeen|yes|yes|Surf|5-10|all=90%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entryhs|119|Seaking|yes|yes|Surf|10|all=10%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/div|water|Fishing}}
{{Catch/entryhs|129|Magikarp|yes|yes|Fish Old|10|all=95%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entryhs|118|Goldeen|yes|yes|Fish Old|10|all=5%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entryhs|129|Magikarp|yes|yes|Fish Good|20|all=60%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entryhs|118|Goldeen|yes|yes|Fish Good|20|all=40%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entryhs|118|Goldeen|yes|yes|Fish Super|40|all=90%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entryhs|129|Magikarp|yes|yes|Fish Super|40|all=7%|type1=Water}}
{{Catch/entryhs|119|Seaking|yes|yes|Fish Super|40|all=3%|type1=Water}}
{{catch/div|road|Headbutt}}
{{catch/entryhs|163|Hoothoot|yes|yes|Headbutt|11-16|all=50%|type1=Normal|type2=Flying|10=k}}
{{catch/entryhs|204|Pineco|yes|yes|Headbutt|11-13|all=30%|type1=Bug|10=k}}
{{catch/entryhs|415|Combee|yes|yes|Headbutt|11-16|all=20%|type1=Bug|type2=Flying|10=k}}
{{catch/footer|road}}

==Trainers==
===Generation I===
===={{game|Red and Blue|s}}====
{{MSP|001|Bulbasaur}} If the {{player}} chose {{p|Bulbasaur}}:
{{Party/Single
|color={{blue color}}
|headcolor={{blue color light}}
|bordercolor={{blue color dark}}
|sprite=Spr RG Blue 1.png
|prize={{PDollar}}595
|name={{color2|000000|Blue (game)|Blue}}
|game=RGB
|location=Cerulean City
|pokemon=4}}
|{{Pokémon/1
|game=Blue
|ndex=017
|pokemon=Pidgeotto
|level=18
|type1=Normal
|type2=Flying
|move1=Gust
|move1type=Normal
|move2=Sand-Attack
|move2type=Normal
|move3=Quick Attack
|move3type=Normal}}
|{{Pokémon/1
|game=Blue
|ndex=063
|pokemon=Abra
|level=15
|type1=Psychic
|move1=Teleport
|move1type=Psychic}}
{{Party/Div|color={{blue color}}}}
|{{Pokémon/1
|game=Blue
|ndex=019
|pokemon=Rattata
|level=15
|type1=Normal
|move1=Tackle
|move1type=Normal
|move2=Tail Whip
|move2type=Normal
|move3=Quick Attack
|move3type=Normal
|move4=Hyper Fang
|move4type=Normal}}
|{{Pokémon/1
|game=Blue
|ndex=004
|pokemon=Charmander
|level=17
|type1=Fire
|move1=Scratch
|move1type=Normal
|move2=Growl
|move2type=Normal
|move3=Ember
|move3type=Fire
|move4=Leer
|move4type=Normal}}
{{Party/Footer}}

{{MSP|004|Charmander}} If the {{player}} chose {{p|Charmander}}:
{{Party/Single
|color={{blue color}}
|headcolor={{blue color light}}
|bordercolor={{blue color dark}}
|sprite=Spr RG Blue 1.png
|prize={{PDollar}}595
|name={{color2|000000|Blue (game)|Blue}}
|game=RGB
|location=Cerulean City
|pokemon=4}}
|{{Pokémon/1
|game=Blue
|ndex=017
|pokemon=Pidgeotto
|level=18
|type1=Normal
|type2=Flying
|move1=Gust
|move1type=Normal
|move2=Sand-Attack
|move2type=Normal
|move3=Quick Attack
|move3type=Normal}}
|{{Pokémon/1
|game=Blue
|ndex=063
|pokemon=Abra
|level=15
|type1=Psychic
|move1=Teleport
|move1type=Psychic}}
{{Party/Div|color={{blue color}}}}
|{{Pokémon/1
|game=Blue
|ndex=019
|pokemon=Rattata
|level=15
|type1=Normal
|move1=Tackle
|move1type=Normal
|move2=Tail Whip
|move2type=Normal
|move3=Quick Attack
|move3type=Normal
|move4=Hyper Fang
|move4type=Normal}}
|{{Pokémon/1
|game=Blue
|ndex=007
|pokemon=Squirtle
|level=17
|type1=Water
|move1=Tackle
|move1type=Normal
|move2=Tail Whip
|move2type=Normal
|move3=Bubble
|move3type=Water
|move4=Water Gun
|move4type=Water}}
{{Party/Footer}}

{{MSP|007|Squirtle}} If the {{player}} chose {{p|Squirtle}}:
{{Party/Single
|color={{blue color}}
|headcolor={{blue color light}}
|bordercolor={{blue color dark}}
|sprite=Spr RG Blue 1.png
|prize={{PDollar}}595
|name={{color2|000000|Blue (game)|Blue}}
|game=RGB
|location=Cerulean City
|pokemon=4}}
|{{Pokémon/1
|game=Blue
|ndex=017
|pokemon=Pidgeotto
|level=18
|type1=Normal
|type2=Flying
|move1=Gust
|move1type=Normal
|move2=Sand-Attack
|move2type=Normal
|move3=Quick Attack
|move3type=Normal}}
|{{Pokémon/1
|game=Blue
|ndex=063
|pokemon=Abra
|level=15
|type1=Psychic
|move1=Teleport
|move1type=Psychic}}
{{Party/Div|color={{blue color}}}}
|{{Pokémon/1
|game=Blue
|ndex=019
|pokemon=Rattata
|level=15
|type1=Normal
|move1=Tackle
|move1type=Normal
|move2=Tail Whip
|move2type=Normal
|move3=Quick Attack
|move3type=Normal
|move4=Hyper Fang
|move4type=Normal}}
|{{Pokémon/1
|game=Blue
|ndex=001
|pokemon=Bulbasaur
|level=17
|type1=Grass
|type2=Poison
|move1=Tackle
|move1type=Normal
|move2=Growl
|move2type=Normal
|move3=Leech Seed
|move3type=Grass
|move4=Vine Whip
|move4type=Grass}}
{{Party/Footer}}

===={{game|Yellow}}====
{{Party/Single
|color={{blue color}}
|headcolor={{blue color light}}
|bordercolor={{blue color dark}}
|sprite=Spr Y Blue 1.png
|prize={{PDollar}}595
|name={{color2|000000|Blue (game)|Blue}}
|game=Y
|location=Cerulean City
|pokemon=4}}
|{{Pokémon/1
|game=Yellow
|ndex=021
|pokemon=Spearow
|level=18
|type1=Normal
|type2=Flying
|move1=Peck
|move1type=Flying
|move2=Growl
|move2type=Normal
|move3=Leer
|move3type=Normal
|move4=Fury Attack
|move4type=Normal}}
|{{Pokémon/1
|game=Yellow
|ndex=027
|pokemon=Sandshrew
|level=15
|type1=Ground
|move1=Scratch
|move1type=Normal
|move2=Sand-Attack
|move2type=Normal}}
{{Party/Div|color={{blue color}}}}
|{{Pokémon/1
|game=Yellow
|ndex=019
|pokemon=Rattata
|level=15
|type1=Normal
|move1=Tackle
|move1type=Normal
|move2=Tail Whip
|move2type=Normal
|move3=Quick Attack
|move3type=Normal
|move4=Hyper Fang
|move4type=Normal}}
|{{Pokémon/1
|game=Yellow
|ndex=133
|pokemon=Eevee
|level=17
|type1=Normal
|move1=Tackle
|move1type=Normal
|move2=Tail Whip
|move2type=Normal
|move3=Sand-Attack
|move3type=Normal}}
{{Party/Footer}}
{{-}}
{{Trainerheader|road}}
{{Trainerentry|Spr RG Rocket.png|Rocket||510|2|066|Machop||17|None|096|Drowzee||17|None}}
{{Trainerfooter|road|1|Inside}}

===Generation III===
{{MSP|001|Bulbasaur}}If the {{player}} chose {{p|Bulbasaur}}:
{{Party/Single
|color={{blue color}}
|headcolor={{blue color light}}
|bordercolor={{blue color dark}}
|sprite=Spr FRLG Blue 1.png
|prize={{PDollar}}288
|class=Rival
|classlink=Rival
|name={{color2|000000|Blue (game)|Blue}}
|game=FRLG
|location=Cerulean City
|pokemon=4}}
|{{Pokémon/3
|game=FireRed
|ndex=017
|pokemon=Pidgeotto
|gender=male
|level=17
|type1=Normal
|type2=Flying
|ability=Keen Eye
|move1=Tackle
|move1type=Normal
|move2=Gust
|move2type=Flying
|move3=Sand-Attack
|move3type=Ground
|move4=Quick Attack
|move4type=Normal}}
|{{Pokémon/3
|game=FireRed
|ndex=019
|pokemon=Rattata
|gender=male
|level=15
|type1=Normal
|ability=Guts
|move1=Tackle
|move1type=Normal
|move2=Tail Whip
|move2type=Normal
|move3=Quick Attack
|move3type=Normal}}
{{Party/Div|color={{blue color}}}}
|{{Pokémon/3
|game=FireRed
|ndex=063
|pokemon=Abra
|gender=male
|level=16
|type1=Psychic
|ability=Synchronize
|move1=Teleport
|move1type=Psychic}}
|{{Pokémon/3
|game=FireRed
|ndex=004
|pokemon=Charmander
|gender=male
|level=18
|type1=Fire
|ability=Blaze
|move1=Scratch
|move1type=Normal
|move2=Growl
|move2type=Normal
|move3=Ember
|move3type=Fire
|move4=Metal Claw
|move4type=Steel}}
{{Party/Footer}}

{{MSP|004|Charmander}} If the {{Player}} chose {{p|Charmander}}:
{{Party/Single
|color={{blue color}}
|headcolor={{blue color light}}
|bordercolor={{blue color dark}}
|sprite=Spr FRLG Blue 1.png
|prize={{PDollar}}288
|class=Rival
|classlink=Rival
|name={{color2|000000|Blue (game)|Blue}}
|game=FRLG
|location=Cerulean City
|pokemon=4}}
|{{Pokémon/3
|game=FireRed
|ndex=017
|pokemon=Pidgeotto
|gender=male
|level=17
|type1=Normal
|type2=Flying
|ability=Keen Eye
|move1=Tackle
|move1type=Normal
|move2=Gust
|move2type=Flying
|move3=Sand-Attack
|move3type=Ground
|move4=Quick Attack
|move4type=Normal}}
|{{Pokémon/3
|game=FireRed
|ndex=063
|pokemon=Abra
|gender=male
|level=16
|type1=Psychic
|ability=Synchronize
|move1=Teleport
|move1type=Psychic}}
{{Party/Div|color={{blue color}}}}
|{{Pokémon/3
|game=FireRed
|ndex=019
|pokemon=Rattata
|gender=male
|level=15
|type1=Normal
|ability=Guts
|move1=Tackle
|move1type=Normal
|move2=Tail Whip
|move2type=Normal
|move3=Quick Attack
|move3type=Normal
|move4=Hyper Fang
|move4type=Normal}}
|{{Pokémon/3
|game=FireRed
|ndex=007
|pokemon=Squirtle
|gender=male
|level=18
|type1=Water
|ability=Torrent
|move1=Tackle
|move1type=Normal
|move2=Tail Whip
|move2type=Normal
|move3=Bubble
|move3type=Water
|move4=Water Gun
|move4type=Water}}
{{Party/Footer}}

{{MSP|007|Squirtle}} If the {{Player}} chose {{p|Squirtle}}:
{{Party/Single
|color={{blue color}}
|headcolor={{blue color light}}
|bordercolor={{blue color dark}}
|sprite=Spr FRLG Blue 1.png
|prize={{PDollar}}288
|class=Rival
|classlink=Rival
|name={{color2|000000|Blue (game)|Blue}}
|game=FRLG
|location=Cerulean City
|pokemon=4}}
|{{Pokémon/3
|game=FireRed
|ndex=017
|pokemon=Pidgeotto
|gender=male
|level=17
|type1=Normal
|type2=Flying
|ability=Keen Eye
|move1=Tackle
|move1type=Normal
|move2=Gust
|move2type=Flying
|move3=Sand-Attack
|move3type=Ground
|move4=Quick Attack
|move4type=Normal}}
|{{Pokémon/3
|game=FireRed
|ndex=019
|pokemon=Rattata
|gender=male
|level=15
|type1=Normal
|ability=Guts
|move1=Tackle
|move1type=Normal
|move2=Tail Whip
|move2type=Normal
|move3=Quick Attack
|move3type=Normal
|move4=Hyper Fang
|move4type=Normal}}
{{Party/Div|color={{blue color}}}}
|{{Pokémon/3
|game=FireRed
|ndex=063
|pokemon=Abra
|gender=male
|level=16
|type1=Psychic
|ability=Synchronize
|move1=Teleport
|move1type=Psychic}}
|{{Pokémon/3
|game=FireRed
|ndex=001
|pokemon=Bulbasaur
|gender=male
|level=18
|type1=Grass
|type2=Poison
|ability=Overgrow
|move1=Tackle
|move1type=Normal
|move2=Growl
|move2type=Normal
|move3=Leech Seed
|move3type=Grass
|move4=Vine Whip
|move4type=Grass}}
{{Party/Footer}}
{{-}}
{{trainerheader|road}}
{{Trainerentry|Spr FRLG Team Rocket Grunt M.png|Team Rocket Grunt||544|2|066|Machop|♂|17|None|096|Drowzee|♂|17|None}}
{{Trainerfooter|road|Inside}}

==Trainer Tips==
===Generation I===
{{sign|RBY|header}}
{{sign|RBY|title|TRAINER TIPS}}
{{sign|RBY|Pressing B Button}}
{{sign|RBY|during evolution}}
{{sign|RBY|cancels the whole}}
{{sign|RBY|process.}}
{{sign|RBY|footer}}

===Generation III===
{{sign|FRLG|header}}
{{sign|FRLG|title|TRAINER TIPS}}
{{sign|FRLG|A POKéMON can be made to hold}}
{{sign|FRLG|an item.}}
{{sign|FRLG|Some items can even be used by}}
{{sign|FRLG|the holding POKéMON in battle.}}
{{sign|FRLG|footer}}

==In the spin-off games==
===In Pokémon Pinball===
In {{g|Pinball}}, Cerulean City appears on the Red and Blue tables; catchable Pokémon include {{p|Caterpie}}, {{p|Oddish}}, {{p|Meowth}}, {{p|Psyduck}}, {{p|Mankey}}, {{p|Abra}}, {{p|Bellsprout}}, {{p|Krabby}}, {{p|Goldeen}} and {{p|Jynx}}.

==In the anime==
===In the main series===
[[File:Cerulean City anime.png|thumb|200px|Cerulean City in the anime]]
Cerulean City first appeared in ''[[EP007|The Water Flowers of Cerulean City]]'', where {{Ash}} decided to challenge the Cerulean Gym. At the Gym, he found out that {{Gary}} and the other two Trainers from [[Pallet Town]] had already beaten the Gym. As their only remaining Pokémon after those challengers was a {{p|Goldeen}}, [[the Sensational Sisters]] were ready to give Ash the {{badge|Cascade}} without a battle, until {{an|Misty}} appeared, revealing herself to be one of the Cerulean [[Gym Leader]]s as well. Ash and Misty started a Gym battle, but just when Ash was about to win, {{TRT}} busted their way into Gym, interrupting the battle. After Team Rocket had been defeated, the Sensational Sisters decided to give Ash the Cascade Badge as a thanks for saving the Gym.

Cerulean City made a reappearance in ''[[EP061|The Misty Mermaid]]'', where Misty relucantly agreed to help her sisters in a new underwater ballet performance. However, in the middle of the act, Team Rocket appeared again, once more trying to steal the Gym's Pokémon. A battle between Ash and company and Team Rocket ensued, during which Cerulean Gym's {{p|Seel}} evolved into a {{OBP|Dewgong|Cerulean Gym}}. Once the situation was solved and Ash and company prepared to leave, Misty left her {{TP|Misty|Horsea}} and {{TP|Misty|Starmie}} at the Gym, the latter due to her sisters' request.

Cerulean City was also featured in the [[Pokémon Chronicles]] episodes ''[[SS002|Cerulean Blues]]'', ''[[SS005|The Blue Badge of Courage]]'', ''[[SS011|A Date With Delcatty]]'', and ''[[SS016|Luvdisc is a Many Splendored Thing]]'', mostly focusing on the Cerulean Gym and Misty.

===In Pokémon Origins===
Cerulean City was seen briefly in the [[Pokémon Origins]] episode ''[[PO02|File 2 - Cubone]]'', where {{OBP|Red|Origins}} recalled having visited the city during his journey. During his visit, he managed to retrieve the stolen [[TM]] for {{m|Dig}} from a member of [[Team Rocket]] and earn the {{badge|Cascade}} by defeating Misty at the Cerulean Gym.
{{-}}

==In the manga==
===In the Pokémon Adventures manga===
Cerulean City was first featured in the {{chap|Red, Green & Blue}} in ''[[PS008|Suddenly Starmie]]'' as the place where [[Misty]]'s mansion and the [[Cerulean Gym]] are located. Its streets surround a canal full of boats, resembling {{wp|Venice}}. {{adv|Red}} and Misty also trained here for a while.

In the {{chap|Yellow}}, Cerulean was attacked by an army of {{p|Gastly}} and {{p|Haunter}}, sent there by [[Agatha]]. Misty, while protecting her Gym, found out that the [[Elite Four]] were after her Badge. After {{adv|Yellow}} defeated [[Lance]] at [[Cerise Island]], the {{t|Ghost}} Pokémon army lost all of its strength.

==Trivia==
* In [[Generation]]s {{gen|II}} and {{gen|IV}}, a {{tc|School Kid}} with an Itemfinder{{sup/2|GSC}}/[[Dowsing Machine|Dowsing MCHN]]{{sup/4|HGSS}} hints at an item outside of [[Cerulean Cave]].
* The [[Badge|Gym Badge]] man is the only character in [[Generation III]] to define the {{Badge|Marsh}} and {{Badge|Volcano}} as having the effect of allowing the {{player}} to use the post-[[Generation I]] [[HM]] moves {{m|Rock Smash}} and {{m|Waterfall}} outside of battle, since [[Sabrina]] and [[Blaine]] do not explain it themselves.
* In {{game|Red and Blue|s}} and [[Generation III]], when talked to, a girl will command her {{p|Slowbro}} to use {{m|Withdraw}} or {{m|Sonic Boom|SonicBoom}}, or to punch. However, while Slowbro learns Withdraw by leveling up and can be taught a {{cat|Punching moves|punching move}}, Slowbro is unable to learn SonicBoom by any legitimate means.
** In {{game|Yellow}}, the girl owns an {{p|Electrode}} instead, commanding it to use either {{m|Tackle}}, Sonic Boom, or {{m|Swift}}, all being moves that Electrode can learn.

==Name origin==
{| class="roundy" style="float:left; background: #3f9bbc; border: 3px solid #007ba7"
|- style="text-align:center"
! style="{{roundytl|5px}}" | Language
! Name
! style="{{roundytr|5px}}" | Origin
|- style="background:#FFF;"
| Japanese
| ハナダシティ ''Hanada City''
| 縹色 (''hanada iro'') refers to a light blue color.
|- style="background:#FFF;"
| English
| Cerulean City
| From ''cerulean'', a deep blue color.
|- style="background:#FFF;"
| Chinese ({{tt|Mandarin|Taiwan and mainland China}})
| 華藍市／华蓝市 ''Huálán Shì'' 花藍市／花蓝市 ''Huālán Shì'' {{tt|*|Before EP061}}
| 華藍/华蓝 (''huálán'') means "magnificent blue", but can also mean "blue blossoms". 花蓝 (''huālán'') means "floral blue".
|- style="background:#FFF;"
| Chinese ({{tt|Cantonese|Hong Kong}})
| 淺藍市 ''Cinlaam Si''
| 淺藍 (''cinlaam'') means "light blue".
|- style="background:#FFF;"
| Czech
| Blankytné město
| ''Blankyt'' means ''azure'', ''město'' is ''city'' (or ''town'')
|- style="background:#FFF;"
| French
| Azuria
| From ''azur'', azure.
|- style="background:#FFF;"
| German
| Azuria City
| From ''Azur'', azure.
|- style="background:#FFF;"
| Hungarian
| Azúrkékváros
| From ''Azúrekék'', azure and ''Varós'', city
|- style="background:#FFF;"
| Indonesian
| Kota Serulin ([[Pokémon Pocket Monsters]] only)
| Transliteration from its English name.
|- style="background:#FFF;"
| Italian
| Celestopoli
| From ''celeste'', light blue, and the suffix ''-poli'', meaning city.
|- style="background:#FFF;"
| Korean
| 블루시티 ''Blue City''
| 블루 is a transliteration of blue.
|- style="background:#FFF;"
| Polish
| Azuria
| From German and French ''Azuria''.
|- style="background:#FFF;"
| Portuguese
| Cidade de Cerulean
| ''Cidade'' means city
|- style="background:#FFF;"
| Romanian
| Orașul Cerulean
| ''Orașul'' means city
|- style="Background:#FFF;"
| Russian
| Церулин ''Tserulin''
| From Cerulean
|- style="background:#FFF;"
| Spanish
| Ciudad Celeste {{tt|"Ciudad Azulona"|Latin American Spanish dub of the anime in EP151, EP215}} {{tt|Ciudad Cerulean|Latin American Spanish dub of the anime in AG092, SS002, SS005, SS011, SS016, AG133, MMoMP}}
| ''Ciudad'' means city, ''Celeste'' means light blue and ''Azulona'' means celadon
|}
{{-}}
{{Kanto}} 
{{Project Cities and Towns notice}}

[[Category:Kanto locations]]
[[Category:Red, Blue and Yellow locations]]
[[Category:Gold, Silver and Crystal locations]]
[[Category:FireRed and LeafGreen locations]]
[[Category:HeartGold and SoulSilver locations]]
[[Category:Pokémon Pinball locations]]
[[Category:Cities]]

[[de:Azuria City]]
[[es:Ciudad Celeste]]
[[fr:Azuria]]
[[it:Celestopoli]]
[[ja:ハナダシティ]]
[[pl:Azuria]]
[[pt:Cerulean City]]
[[zh:华蓝市]]

Talk:S.S. Anne

2015-10-11T04:29:59Z

Ericss:

==I've got a problem==
I looked at the method to find the truck for FR/LG and tried it. I think theres been a mistake; it doesn't work. Red/Leaf simply walks up to the ship, watches it leave, and exits the dock. I think I made a mistake, but I'm not sure. thanks [[User:ZanderX|Zander]] 07:52, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
:You're supposed to do the truck before helping the captain. That way the ship won't leave.--[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 12:06, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

== Wtf? ==

What's the proof about the 3D rendered Kanto in DP? - {{u|Pokémon Lover King Mario}}
:The title says '''Rumors''' and the sentence after that says that it was proven false[[User:Pokemaniac102|Poke]][[User talk:Pokemaniac102|Maniac]][[Special:Contributions/Pokemaniac102|102]] 15:55, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

== The Old Truck? ==

Was the truck really in Red, Blue and Yellow?--Moisesmorales 17:59, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
:Yes, the Old Truck appears in all of the Generation I games. [[User:Trainer-c|Trainer-c]] 18:01, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

== How to access the harbor after the ship leaves ==
This only works for RBY. To make the ship come back, you need a Pokémon with Surf. Stand to the left and above the sailor who tells you the ship left and turns you back. Take one step right, and in mid-step, hit the start button, similar to the Mew Glitch where you escape the Gambler. Immediately save and reboot. You should still be facing left, instead of down like how you usually start. Immediately begin Surfing, and you should be on top of the sailor. Then head down and enter the harbor. The ship will still be there and everything. If done correctly, it always works. [http://glitchcity.info/docs/ssanne (source)] --[[User:Fsilone|爆発
]][[Special:Contributions/Fsilone|ばくはつ
]] 05:00, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

== S.S. Ticket... ==

Something tells me that it's only a dummy item for DP... and that its place in the coding will be used... [[GSDS|elsewhere]]. After all, all of the RSE key items are in the FRLG coding, and likewise for the FRLG key items in the E coding... '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 08:55, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
:Oooh... good thinking. I'm adding that to the GSDS article. --[[User:Martonimos|Martonimos]][[User talk:Martonimos|Talk]] 09:05, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

== I need help ==

I tried to add the truck to Wikipedia's Kanto (pokemon) article but i have met a lot of resistance. One single user took it upon himself to repeatedly remove my contribution and caused a edit war. First it was called speculation, so i had to go out of my way to finding source after source. Luckily i found one that can't be disputed. Then it's notability was called into question and then the images were argued to not be allowed because they were Non-free but so are all the images on the same article. So can anyone help me get some more evidence to back my case up.

I need images that they can't argue against, sources and maybe some extra people who believe the truck can be added to the article and not hurt it. [[User:Yami Takashi|Yami Takashi]] 16:39, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
::Why are you on the S.S. Anne talk page anyways?[[User:Taviource|Tavis]][[User talk:Taviource|ource]] 17:24, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
:::And plus, Wikipedia has it's own rules and we can care less about Wikipedia. Just let them be. You'll learn to understand one day, kid.--[[User:Taviource|Tavis]][[User talk:Taviource|ource]] 17:26, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
::::If you can care less about Wikipedia, it means that you do care. The rest of us ''can't'' care less about Wikipedia. --[[User:Martonimos|Martonimos]][[User talk:Martonimos|((Argh]]|[[Special:Contributions/Martonimos|Blargh))]] 17:36, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
:::::They're not going to budge so just stop trying. Wikipedians can do what they want to their Pokémon coverage for all we care. As long as Bulbapedia's article has the information, people can just come here. --[[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] |[[User talk:Fabu-Vinny|Talk Page]]| 18:09, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
::::::In short, don't touch TOW, it has cooties. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 07:15, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
:::::::lol(sorry for butting in and wat's TOW?)--[[User:CoolPikachu!|CoolPikachu!]] 07:48, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
::::::::Th[e/at] Other Wiki? --[[User:LaprasBoi|LaprasBoi]] 15:20, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
== Picture ==

I put a pic I found on the achives about the s.s. anne one the s.s. anne page. I think it was uploaded by TTEchidna or King something..... well, here's the pic (I'll post later after I've found out who really uploaded it.......translation: I'll click on the picture, then say who exactly uploaded it.)--[[User:Dragonbeastx|DRAGON]][[User talk:Dragonbeastx|BEAST]][[User:Dragonbeastx/Secret Page|X]] 07:31, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

KingMario uploaded it........--[[User:Dragonbeastx|DRAGON]][[User talk:Dragonbeastx|BEAST]][[User:Dragonbeastx/Secret Page|X]] 07:33, 27 December 2008 (UTC)
{{-}}

== Trainers ==
This page has a disturbing lack of trainers listed, including the Rival battle. [[User:TCABF|TCABF]] 07:33, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
:Wanna find out for us? I'll give you a cookie! — [[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|THE TROM]] — 07:18, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
I gathered as much of it as I could from LG. I'd already battled two of the trainers (The two in the room that is second from the left in the first row) so I missed those two's data, but I got the rest. Should be pretty accurate. I don't know the proper formatting for the templates and whatnot (I'm a wikinoob) so I'm posting here. I'll take that cookie now! :D

Hyper Potion (Hidden in Trash on bottom deck)
Super Potion (Room 5 on bottom deck)
TM44 (Rest) (Room 2 on bottom deck)
Ether (Room 3 on bottom deck)
Pecha Berry (Hidden in Trash in the Galley)
Cheri Berry (Hidden in Trash in the Galley)
Chesto Berry (Hidden in Trash in the Galley)
Great Ball (Galley)
Stardust (Room 2 on second deck)
X Attack (Room 4 on second deck)
HM01 (Receive from Captain for backrub)

MAIN DECK:

ROOM 2:

ROOM 5:
Gentleman Arthur WINNINGS: 1368
Nidoran Male Lv19 EXP: 240
Nidoran Female Lv19 EXP: 240

ROOM 7:
Gentleman Thomas WINNINGS: 1296
Growlithe Lv18 EXP: 351
Growlithe Lv18 EXP: 351

Room 6 has healer

BOTTOM DECK:

ROOM 1:
Fisherman Barny WINNINGS: 612
Tentacool Lv17 EXP: 382
Staryu Lv17 EXP: 385
Shellder Lv17 EXP: 352

Sailor Phillip WINNINGS: 640
Machop Lv20 EXP: 376

ROOM 2:
Sailor Huey WINNINGS: 576
Tentacool Lv18 EXP: 405
Staryu Lv18 EXP: 408

ROOM 3:
Sailor Dylan WINNINGS: 544
Horsea Lv17 EXP: 301
Horsea Lv17 EXP: 301
Horsea Lv17 EXP: 301

ROOM 4:
Sailor Duncan WINNINGS: 544
Horsea Lv17 EXP: 301
Shellder Lv17 EXP: 352
Tentacool Lv17 EXP: 382

Sailor Leonard WINNINGS: 672
Shellder Lv21 EXP: 436

SECOND DECK:

ROOM 2:
Fisherman Dale WINNINGS: 612
Goldeen Lv17 EXP: 403
Goldeen Lv17 EXP: 403
Tentacool Lv17 EXP: 382

Gentleman Brooks WINNINGS: 1656
Pikachu Lv23 EXP: 403

ROOM 4:
Lass Dawn WINNINGS: 288
Rattata Lv18 EXP: 219
Pikachu Lv18 EXP: 315

Gentleman Lamar WINNINGS: 1224
Growlithe Lv17 EXP: 331
Ponyta Lv17 EXP: 553

RIVAL BLUE: WINNINGS: 720
If the player chose Bulbasaur:
Pidgeotto Lv19 EXP: 458
Raticate Lv16 EXP: 397
Kadabra Lv18 EXP: 558
Charmeleon Lv20 EXP: 607

TOP DECK/OUTER DECK:
Sailor Trevor WINNINGS: 544
Machop Lv17 EXP: 319
Tentacool Lv17 EXP: 382

Sailor Edmond WINNINGS: 576
Machop Lv18 EXP: 339
Shellder Lv18 EXP: 373
[[User:TCABF|TCABF]] 07:30, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
:Wow, thanks. I really didn't think you'd do it quick like that. I'll upload it into the article, and you can eat [http://www.connersvine.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/cookie.jpg this]. — [[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|THE TROM]] — 08:34, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
::Thanks! :D Looking at the templates on other pages, it looks like I failed to gather certain data (Such as genders, and the moves of the rival) but hopefully this will at least get a start. [[User:TCABF|TCABF]] 08:43, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
::Eh. Someone will find out the genders I'm sure. Maybe I will... we still have to get those other two trainers. And the Rival's moves are probably on his page. If not, no biggy. — [[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|THE TROM]] — 08:48, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
:::Which game is this for?--[[User:Clarky13|'''Clarky''']][[User talk:Clarky13|'''13''']] 08:57, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
:::I assumed FRLG... I'm filling it in slowly anyways... — [[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|THE TROM]] — 09:07, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
::::When your filling out Blue's battle, don't fill out the template from scratch, use the one [[Blue (game)#Battle four 3|here]]. Do you need help adding the templates?--[[User:Clarky13|'''Clarky''']][[User talk:Clarky13|'''13''']] 09:16, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
:::::Almost done. If you try and jump in it'll EC... But thanks. — [[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|THE TROM]] — 09:19, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

== Rumors...? ==
Should we move the '''Rumors''' section to the [[Vermilion Harbor]] page, since it has to do with the harbor, and not the ship directly? [[User:Jazzmoth|Jazzmoth]] 19:19, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
:I would support that. --[[User:LaprasBoi|LaprasBoi]] 15:20, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
:Agreed. [[User:LoganZezima|-LZ]] 00:38, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

==Dupe pictures==
Is there some special reason which causes us to need two near-identical images of the "Truck" on the page? I don't quite see the point. --[[User:Turaga Dlakii|Turaga Dlakii]] ([[User talk:Turaga Dlakii|Talk!]]) 06:00, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
:I'm pretty sure having one is fine, so I removed the one of them. '''~ [[User:Sol|sol]][[User talk:Sol|ar]][[Special:Contributions/Sol|is]]''' 06:05, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

== The SS Ticket in D/P/Pt ==

Maybe it's a placeholder, because the SS Anne might be in HG/SS '''{{Colored link|:User:Origamiguy|f80|Lord}} of {{Colored link|:User_talk:Origamiguy|f80|Ori}}{{Colored link|Special:Contributions/Origamiguy|fb0|gami}}''' 09:46, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
:Unlikely, as ''G''/''S''/''C'' have their own ship, the [[S.S. Aqua]], and even if it was, I am not sure why that requires a placeholder... ''D''/''P'' don’t have a placeholder for the [[Griseous Orb]] or the {{OBP|Gracidea|flower}}, and you cannot trade [[Key Item]]s anyway. So don’t put your theory in the article unless you have some evidence( or at least a lot of people agreeing with you I guess? I know Bulbapedia is a bit more relaxed than Wikipedia). --[[User:LaprasBoi|LaprasBoi]] 00:49, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
::I agree with this, though. They might have put it in DPPt in case someone tried to hack the game with a pokemon holding that key item. It's a good chance SS Anne will show up in HGSS because it probably won't be identical to GSC, and possibly it could have other elements. Can't say the ship won't appear for sure. It's all speculation til the game comes out. [[User:CherryParanoia|CherryParanoia]] 19:56, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
:::Though just another thought came to mind. Can't the SS Ticket run for SS Aqua, or did the item itself say the SS Anne? [[User:CherryParanoia|CherryParanoia]] 19:57, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
::::Perhaps. As with all HGSS speculation, feel free to discuss in further on the forums. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 20:04, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
:::::Personally I think the S.S. Ticket is just a carryover from the Gen III engine, like how the {{type|Bird}} is still in Generation II. [[User:Zesty Cactus|Zesty Cactus]] 20:21, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

== Pokemon ==
Outside the S.S Anne you can catch Magikarp with the old rod you probaly can other pokemon with the other rods {{unsigned|Ponyta}}
:'''Outside''' not inside. and you can't fish of the harbor.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F''']][[Ho-Oh (Pokémon)|orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F''']][[Lugia (Pokémon)|ire]] 11:00, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

== Question ==

Can anybody think of a use for the truck in generation 1 BESIDES sceneary?--[[user:Mtn otter|Mtn otter]] We are the Void 16:09, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
:Not really. Take it to the forums, please~ [[User:Umeko|梅子]][[User talk:Umeko|❀]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|✿]] 16:15, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

== Pokémon Center bed? ==

The article states that "A room is provided with a bed that acts like a Pokémon Center, restoring all Pokémon on hand to full health."

Is that true?

I don't recall there being any such bed on the S.S. Anne. I know the [[S.S. Aqua]] has one, as does the [[S.S. Tidal]], but I don't recall the S.S. Anne having one. If it does have one, which room is it in? --[[User:Bardock|Bar]][[User_Talk:Bardock|dock]] 03:43, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
:First floor. Second room from the right. It's actually a lady, not a bed. I shall amend. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 08:02, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Is it in Generation I? {{unsigned|Schreiber}}
:Both Trom and the article are right there is a nurse, and she is next to your bed.--[[User:Clarky13|'''Clarky''']][[User talk:Clarky13|'''13''']] 13:33, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

== Snorlax's Pokedex Data ==

In the Red and Blue versions, talking to the man in the far left cabin on the top deck (the area you fight Blue in), adds Snorlax to your Pokedex, as though you had seen one without capturing it. Should this be mentioned, either under Geography or in a Trivia section? I don't know if this happens in FireRed and LeafGreen as well.
--[[User:Doctorlit|Doctorlit]] 17:52, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

==Geography==
A Geography section? Really? I know the content of that section is important, but there has to be a better word. It's a boat, for cryin' out loud. --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] 12:57, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
:I second this notion.{{unsigned|LoganZezima}}

== Truck ==

I own the original American version of Pokemon Red. There is no truck in it. When I pass the man asking for the ticket, I go to a zoomed out version of me walking to the ship. All that's on screen is an extended walkway going into the ship. There is no dock to hold a truck on. Should we mention this? Maybe it changes by different countries versions.--[[User:Rprince418|Rprince418]] 03:16, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
:Maybe you missed it. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BD8ByEITQkg Here is a video of someone getting to it]. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 15:20, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

== Pachelbel's Canon Similarities?==
I was told by a friend that the music associated with the S.S. Anne, especially the arrangement seen in the Oceanic Museum, heavily borrows from the Canon. I gave the full canon a listen here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pachelbel%27s_Canon and I think it does sound pretty close when it gets around 2 and a half minutes in. I asked around several people to compare and they appear to find that the songs at least quote from the canon. What do you guys think? If it sounds close enough, I'd like to add it as a trivia point to both this page and consequently the Oceanic Museum's as well. [[User:Chicobo329|Chicobo329]] 02:20, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

== Error with the trainers ==
I was playing Pokémon Yellow Version when I noticed that there are some errors in that page (perhaps only for the Yellow version): at the 2nd floor, there is not a Gentleman with a Pikachu at lvl 23, but one with Voltorb at 22, no item and Magnemite at 22, no item. He gives 1540 money. And also the Lass has not the Pokémon written here (rattata lv 18 and pikachu lv 18) but only a Jigglypuff lv 20 no item and she will give 300 money. Is it possible to modify the page? {{unsigned|Matsetes}}

== Maps, and how to incorporate them ==

So I have acquired all the maps for the S.S. Anne in Gen III. I have constructed a guide to how it all fits together.

The guide can be seen: [http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee431/Creoix/688px-SS_Anne_Overall.png Here].

But I was not sure how to put place it around in this template. So how would you guys recommend doing so?

{| align="center" style="background: #000; {{roundy|10px}} border: 5px solid #{{water color}}"
|-
! style="background:#{{water color light}}; {{roundytl|5px}}" | Version
! style="background:#{{water color light}}" | 1F
! style="background:#{{water color light}}" | 1F (Rooms)
! style="background:#{{water color light}}" | 2F
! style="background:#{{water color light}}" | 2F (Rooms)
! style="background:#{{water color light}}" | 3F
! style="background:#{{water color light}}" | Basement
! style="background:#{{water color light}}; {{roundytr|5px}}" | Basement (Rooms)
|- style="background:#000"
! style="background:#{{firered color}}" | {{color2|000|Pokémon FireRed and LeafGreen Versions|FireRed}}
| rowspan="2" | [[File:SS Anne 1F FRLG.png|180px]]
| rowspan="2" | [[File:SS Anne 1F Rooms FRLG.png|180px]]
| rowspan="2" | [[File:SS Anne 2F FRLG.png|180px]]
| rowspan="2" | [[File:SS Anne 2F Rooms FRLG.png|180px]]
| rowspan="2" | [[File:SS Anne 3F FRLG.png|180px]]
| rowspan="2" | [[File:SS Anne Basement FRLG.png|180px]]
| rowspan="2" | [[File:SS Anne Basement Rooms FRLG.png|180px]]
|-
! style="background:#{{leafgreen color}}" | {{color2|000|Pokémon FireRed and LeafGreen Versions|LeafGreen}}
|-
|-
| colspan="8" style="background:#{{water color light}}; {{roundybl|5px}} {{roundybr|5px}}" |  
|}

[[User:Creoix|Creoix]] 07:31, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
:It's a bit big (and I've already placed it, but it can be changed if someone wants to). Also, posting images which don't exist is a BAD idea. I did that few times (as far as I remember) and... server liked to ''not'' update the image after uploading it. [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] ([[User talk:Marked +-+-+|talk]]) 08:00, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

== Korean Name ==

I don't think the Korean name sounds right... "상트앙느호"... Shouldn't it be more like "샌트안느호"? Can someone make sure the first name I mentioned ''really'' is the Korean name? It just doesn't sound right... [[User:XXWeiFangXx|XXWeiFangXx]] ([[User talk:XXWeiFangXx|talk]]) 23:17, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

== Truck access ==

I attempted to access the truck using the collect Cut, lose to a trainer method. However, as soon as I went back to the SS Anne, it took me to it, and then it departed. Is this way only able to be used in Gen I? I'll change it to say that if it is. --[[User:Funktastic~!|'''It's''' '''Funktastic~!''']][[User talk:Funktastic~!|''話してください'']] 16:44, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

==What happens if you didn't pick up the HM01 before beating the game?==
What happens if you skipped getting the HM01 and then beat the game? Does the SS Anne get replaceD with the Seagallop as usual, meaning that you will have permanently missed the HM? - [[User:Ericss|Ericss]] ([[User talk:Ericss|talk]]) 04:29, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

Talk:List of permanently missable items

2015-10-11T04:27:27Z

Ericss:

==Thief TM==
Does anyone know what happens if Team Aqua leaves the [[Oceanic Museum]] before you get the Thief TM (in both RSE and ORAS)? Is it a permanently missable item? I would expect it to not be in ORAS since TMs are reusable, but I could understand it being so in RSE. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 12:03, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
:This was a good question, and I panicked because I didn't have it in Alpha Sapphire. However, see [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDPX9oeDjA0 this video] to see that the Grunt who hands it out never leaves the museum. You have to pay to re-enter, unfortunately. [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 04:44, 2 January 2015 (UTC)
::Right, so that's ORAS confirmed as non-missable, but how about RSE? --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 05:24, 2 January 2015 (UTC)
:::If you have R/S/E, walk into the museum and pay the entrance fee. If the Grunt is standing there by himself, then it's still available even if missed.
:::Actually, my Emerald is at Mauville. This is something I can investigate...maybe I will. [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 06:24, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

== S. S. Tidal ==

The ship was aboard one time right? --[[User:HoopsterJohn|HoopsterJohn]] ([[User talk:HoopsterJohn|talk]]) 04:16, 2 January 2015 (UTC)
:You can access the ship any time you take it between Lilycove and Slateport, even after defeating all of the Trainers and collecting all of the items. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 06:05, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

== HM01 ==
You know how in FRLG, after you beat the story, the S.S. Anne gets replaced with the Seagallop? Well, what happens if you didn't get HM01 before that and instead had a Pokémon with Cut traded from another game? Will you have permanently missed the HM? - [[User:Ericss|Ericss]] ([[User talk:Ericss|talk]]) 04:27, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

Talk:Days of the week

2015-10-07T08:12:51Z

Ericss: /* Daily events? */ new section

what about drifloon apearing of fridays in gen IV?--[[User:Kittenchild|Kittenchild]] 19:10, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

It's on there --[[User:Theryguy512|Theryguy512]] 19:11, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

....sorry I should have re-read it first.--[[User:Kittenchild|Kittenchild]] 19:16, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Is there an article or a section about things which you can do once a day but can do again once midnight rolls over (Berry Master handing out a free berry, Veilstone girl offering a massage, etc)? If there's not, I can start putting one together... [[User:Recalcitrancy|Recalcitrancy]] 14:30, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

:And the rival battle on a Monday when the time rolls over from Sunday and you stay in the same area. -- [[User:HechEff|HechEff]] 14:54, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

==Order of the days==
In the ISO 8601 Monday is described to be the first day of the week as an international standard so should it not be reflected here as well?
[[User:Morri|Morri]] 16:34, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

== HGSS ==

So what're we gonna do about it. It's likely to have the same events as Gen II. Copying or putting Gen II/HGSS? '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 07:21, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
:I'll have to say copying it into Gen IV section. {{tt|But I'm always wrong|ain't I TTE}}.--[[User:Clarky13|'''Clarky''']][[User talk:Clarky13|'''13''']] 07:37, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

== Every Day ==

I suggest we add either a section to this article or a new article that chronicles events that happen Every Day. I have looked but I cannot find one on the wiki. The Time article is mainly concerned with the visual effects of time, and doesn't mention any specific events. I think a section in this article would be handy because then we could have all the time based events in one place. It'd certainly be nice to have all the gym leader registration information for HGSS in one place, because popping back and forth between articles to figure out who is on a specific day and who can be registered on any day is a total pain. [[User:Darien Shields|Darien Shields]] 12:26, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
:Isn't that what the current page setup is? —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 23:10, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
::No? The current page seems to list things that happen on specific days. But there are also events that take place every day of the week. For instant, Brock's pokégear registration isn't listed here because it doesn't occur on a specific day. You can do it on any day between noon and three in the afternoon. As far as I can tell no events like that are on the page... [[User:Darien Shields|Darien Shields]] 00:29, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
:::If it happens on every day of the week, then I don't think it needs to be mentioned on a page specific to days of the week. >_> it can just be mentioned elsewhere. (using your example, Brock's PokeGear registration could be just put on Brock's page, since it doesn't matter what day you get it, just the time). --[[User:Zesty Cactus|'''Zesty''']][[User talk:Zesty Cactus|'''Cactus''']] 00:31, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
::::Oh, so that's what you meant by "every day". Gotcha. Like ZC said, we don't need a page listing what you can do every single day. That would basically be summarizing the whole game, because most tasks and quests can be done on any day. It's the events that only happen once out of every seven that are unique, and require mention here. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 10:23, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
:::::How many events vary by time but not day? If there are enough it may be worth creating a list or at least a section on the main time article. However I do think that such a section would not belong on this page.--[[User:Beligaronia|Beligaronia]] ([[User talk:Beligaronia|talk]]) 10:33, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
::::::Off the top of my head I can think of three events that varie by time but not day- registering Brock, registering Jasmine, and getting a massage from Blue's sister in Palette. That's the sort of event I was talking about, sorry, I really failed to make myself clear. Events that occur based on time of day, but not the actual day. It wouldn't include the whole game since stuff like challenging the Elite Four has nothing to do with the time of day, if you catch my drift. The reason I suggested adding that content to this page was because it'd be incredibly useful to have one page that lists all the things like gym leader registration time. Admittedly time based event that don't apply to specific days of the week should probably go in a different place. Maybe [[Time]]? [[User:Darien Shields|Darien Shields]] 13:29, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
:::::::If this is primarily about Pokégear registration, I've put a new section on the [[Pokégear]] page and am slowly filling it in. If you wish, try making a section on the Time article. We'll see how it goes. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 20:38, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
::::::::I would second the creation of some time of page, be it here on this page or elsewhere, which chronicles "events" which take place at a specific time. I would also appreciate it if we made a list somewhere that tracks events which can be done once per day, such as the Berry Master in DP, as an example --[[User:Mewmor|Mewmor]] 21:52, 7 July 2010 (UTC)
I have created a [[User:Beligaronia/Sandbox|sandbox]] with all the events I could think of. This could either be added as a section to the Time article or its own article if more is added. Needs some work so feel free to edit it.–[[User:Beligaronia|Beligaronia]] ([[User talk:Beligaronia|talk]]) 22:28, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
:That article seems to be focused on things that happen at particular times every day. Would it also be appropriate to add things like the Lottery which happen every day, but not at a particular time?--[[User:Delecti|Delecti]] 02:13, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

== Link to current day? ==

In the intro section, it currently says
<pre>It is currently {{#time: l}} (UTC).</pre>
Would it be a good idea to add a link there to the section that applies to the current day? For example,
<pre>It is currently [[Days of the week#{{#time: l}}|{{#time: l}}]] (UTC).</pre>
seems to work when I preview it, but I don't know if that sort of syntax would cause problems, or if there's some better way to go about it, or what.

I just thought that this would make it easier for people who come to the page thinking, "what's going on in my game today, again?" (I personally do this often. :P) Much less scrolling and all. [[User:Umeko|梅子]][[User talk:Umeko|❀]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|✿]] 16:19, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

== Silver in HGSS ==

Okay, for events, like on Monday, where it says Silver can be battled at Indigo Plateau, once you've battled him can he be rebattled a week later? I can't seem to find him anywhere, so I'm thinking probably not. If that's the case, it's probably worth pointing out in the article? --[[User:Oatzy|Oatzy]] 17:30, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
:: Nevermind, figured it out. After the first time, you have to do the tag battle in the dragon's den before he'll battle you again (in Indigo Plateau).--[[User:Oatzy|Oatzy]] 15:42, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

== thursday ==

I registered Whitney at daytime during Thursday at goldenrod department store... could someone clarify the time that she will appear on that day??? [[User:wisp82|wisp82]] 02:43, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

== "Evening?" ==

I have noticed that in HGSS, gym leaders who can be rechallenged in the evening cannot be called from 8:00pm to 3:59am the following morning, but from 12:00am-3:59am or from 8:00pm to 11:59pm on the day specified. This clarification should be made somewhere.--[[User:Mewmor|Mewmor]] 21:56, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

== HGSS Leaders ==

I noticed that there are a few Gym Leaders that aren't on the registration list. Could somebody please add the missing Leaders? [[User:Pawsrent|Pawsrent]] 13:58, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
:Which ones? I believe some aren't day specific. [[User:Turtwig A|Turtwig's]] [[Turtwig (Pokémon)|A-B-Cs]] ([[User talk:Turtwig A|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|contribs]]) 14:00, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

== Gen V ==
Are there no day specific events in gen V? I guess since they have season specific events now... [[User:Felinoel|felinoel]] 08:42, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== New method of sorting? ==

Would it be OK of adding (or changing) the method of sorting so that the generations are grouped separately from one another, and then are further sorted into the days of the week? The way it currently works is the opposite, where the days of the week take precedence over the generations.

For example (my concept):

''Gen II - Gold/Silver/Crystal:

Sunday - <Sunday's events>
Monday - <Monday's events>
Tuesday - ...
Wednesday - ...
Thursday - ...
Friday - ...

Gen III - Ruby/Emerald/Sapphire:

Sunday - <Sunday's events>
Monday - ...
Tuesday - ...

Gen IV:

<days and respective events>

Gen V:

<days and respective events>
''

It would be much more effective to find all the events pertaining to the specific game you are playing this way instead of having to go to the current day and and going through all the other games that currently don't pertain to you. --[[User:Nicknick|Nicknick]] 20:35, 29 April 2011 (UTC)
:I would be 100% behind this change. Besides making it easier for people who want to use it as a guide for their game, it would also make it easier for people to compare the weekly events from a particular game to each other in the interest of pure reference. --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] [[User talk:AndyPKMN|(talk)]] 00:17, 30 April 2011 (UTC)
::I'm happy with that change. The sooner the better. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 08:50, 30 April 2011 (UTC)
:::Yes, I think that is a great idea. [[Time]] does in the suggested way too. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 09:01, 30 April 2011 (UTC)
::::Done (heh, I'm new here but fortunately had the same thoughts you guys did; went ahead and did it after reading this archive.) However, just noting that there seem to be quite a few things that can be shortened further - for instance, rather than listing "Person X is handing out Y" seven times, it'd be better to list the person once followed by bullet points as to what they hand out each day. I'm not sure how cluttered that might make the page though. I may mess around with it later. zedadex 17:46, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
:::::How can [[Template:Dotw]] link to the correct position? --[[User:847418742|847418742]]/[[User talk:847418742|Nick:Togekiss of Moon]] 12:22, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

== Template:Sup/t ==

It isn't working right. It's only linking to Gen II events. --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 01:33, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

== Daily events? ==

Is there an article for daily events? If not, I would say we should make one. To provide a list if weekly events but not daily events makes Bulbapedia feels incomplete to me. [[User:Ericss|Ericss]] ([[User talk:Ericss|talk]]) 08:12, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

Umbreon (Pokémon)

2015-06-23T05:10:27Z

Ericss:

{{PokémonPrevNextHead | species=Umbreon | prev=Espeon | next=Murkrow |type=dark| prevnum=196| nextnum=198}}
{{Pokémon Infobox |
name=Umbreon |
jname=ブラッキー |
jtranslit=Burakkī |
tmname=Blacky |
ndex=197 |
oldjdex=185 |
jdex=189 |
hdex=342 |
sdex=168 |
u2dex=096 |
karea=Coastal |
kdex=082 |
fbrow=187 |
abrow=102 |
obrow=080 |
opbrow=059 |
typebox=1 |
type1=Dark |
species=Moonlight |
height-ftin=3'03" |
height-m=1.0 |
weight-lbs=59.5 |
weight-kg=27.0 |
abilityn=d |
ability1=Synchronize |
abilityd=Inner Focus |
egggroupn=1 |
egggroup1=Field |
eggcycles=36 |
evtotal=2 |
evsd=2 |
expyield=184 |
oldexp=197 |
lv100exp=1,000,000 |
gendercode=31 |
color=Black |
catchrate=45 |
body=08 |
pokefordex=umbreon |
generation=2 |
friendship=35 |
}}
'''Umbreon''' ([[List of Japanese Pokémon names|Japanese]]: '''ブラッキー''' ''Blacky'') is a {{type|Dark}} Pokémon.

It [[Evolution|evolves]] from {{p|Eevee}} when [[level]]ed up with high [[friendship]] during the [[Time#Time-based evolutions|night]] or when around a [[Sun and Moon Shards|Moon Shard]]. It is one of Eevee's [[Eeveelution|final forms]], the others being {{p|Vaporeon}}, {{p|Jolteon}}, {{p|Flareon}}, {{p|Espeon}}, {{p|Leafeon}}, {{p|Glaceon}}, and {{p|Sylveon}}.

It is the [[starter Pokémon]] in {{g|Colosseum}} alongside the other [[Generation II]] Eeveelution, Espeon.

==Biology==
Umbreon has a sleek black body with four slender legs and crimson eyes. There are two pairs of pointed teeth visible when its mouth is open, one in the upper jaw and one in the lower. It has long pointed ears and a bushy tail, each with a yellow band around them. Its forehead and legs have yellow rings on them. Its yellow markings glow at night and strike fear into anyone nearby. It hides in the darkness while waiting for its opponents, and its yellow rings glow when it leaps to attack. It is also capable of spraying a poisonous sweat whenever it gets agitated. This Pokémon is rare in the wild, and is more often found in {{DL|List of Pokémon by habitat|Urban Pokémon|urban areas}} under the care of people.

==In the anime==
[[File:Virgil Umbreon.png|thumb|250px|right|Umbreon in the anime]]
===Major appearances===
====[[Gary's Umbreon]]====
{{Gary}}'s Eevee evolved into an Umbreon some time before ''[[EP171|Power Play!]]''.

====Other====
Umbreon also appeared in ''[[EP183|Trouble's Brewing]]'' and ''[[EP226|Espeon, Not Included]]'' under the ownership of one of the {{DL|Kimono Girl|In the anime|Kimono Sisters}}.

{{an|Dawn}}'s mother, [[Johanna]], owns an Umbreon, which appeared in ''[[DP138|Strategy Begins at Home!]]''.

An Umbreon appeared in ''[[BW102|Team Eevee and the Pokémon Rescue Squad!]]'', along with an Eevee and its other evolutions, under the ownership of [[Virgil]]. In a flashback, it was shown how it evolved from an Eevee during a night with him.

An Umbreon appeared in ''[[PK25|Eevee & Friends]]'' with an {{p|Eevee}} and its other evolutions, including the newly introduced {{p|Sylveon}}.

===Minor appearances===
An Umbreon appeared in {{Gary}}'s explanation in ''[[EP272|Johto Photo Finish]]''.

Multiple Umbreon appeared in the opening of ''[[M07|Destiny Deoxys]]''.

Umbreon made a small cameo in the beginning of ''[[M11|Giratina and the Sky Warrior]]'' together with an {{p|Eevee}} and the other six [[Eeveelution]]s.

In ''[[BW004|The Battle Club and Tepig's Choice!]]'', Umbreon is mentioned in Ash's Pokédex after mistaking a blackened-up {{p|Tepig}} that broke out of the warehouse for it on a monitor.
{{-}}

===Pokédex entries===
{{Animedexheader|Johto}}
{{Animedexbody|EP171|Umbreon|Ash's Pokédex|Umbreon, the Moonlight Pokémon. When an {{p|Eevee}} has had sufficient training and is exposed to {{m|moonlight}}, it evolves into an Umbreon.}}
{{Animedexfooter/Pokémon|original|Johto}}
{{Animedexheader|Unova}}
{{Animedexbody|BW004|Umbreon|Ash's Pokédex|Umbreon, the Moonlight Pokémon, and an evolved form of {{p|Eevee}}. The rings of Umbreon's body {{m|Flash|glow faintly}} when exposed to the moon's aura, and it gains a mysterious power.}}
{{Animedexbody|BW102|Umbreon|Ash's Pokédex|Umbreon, the Moonlight Pokémon. The rings in its fur glow when the moon shines on them.}}
{{Animedexfooter/Pokémon|''Best Wishes''|Unova}}

==In the manga==
[[File:Bill Umbreon Golden Boys.png|thumb|120px|Umbreon in [[Pokémon Gold & Silver: The Golden Boys|The Golden Boys]]]]
===In the Pokémon Adventures manga===
In {{PAV|14}}, [[Karen]] is seen with an Umbreon as the cornerstone of her team, as in the games. It apparently evolved from the {{p|Eevee}} she had since her childhood.

{{FB|Arena Tycoon|Greta}} of the [[Battle Arena]] is seen using an Umbreon in her battles with [[Guile Hideout]] and {{adv|Emerald}}, during which it easily defeats his {{p|Dusclops}} before falling to his {{p|Sudowoodo}}, which goes on to win the match, earning him the [[Guts Symbol]].

===In the Pokémon Gold & Silver: The Golden Boys manga===
In [[Pokémon Gold & Silver: The Golden Boys|The Golden Boys]], [[Bill]] has both an Umbreon and its counterpart, {{p|Espeon}}.

==In the TCG==
{{main|Umbreon (TCG)}}

==Game data==
===Pokédex entries===
{{Dex/Header|type=dark}}
{{Dex/NA|gen=II}}
{{Dex/Gen|gen=II}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=Gold|entry=When agitated, this Pokémon protects itself by spraying poisonous sweat from its pores.}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=Silver|entry=When darkness falls, the rings on the body begin to glow, striking fear in the hearts of anyone nearby.}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=Crystal|entry=On the night of a full moon, or when it gets excited, the ring patterns on its body glow yellow.}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=Stadium 2|t=FFF|color=000|entry=When agitated, this Pokémon protects itself by spraying poisonous sweat from its pores.}}
|}
|}
{{Dex/Gen|gen=III}}
{{Dex/Entry2|v=Ruby|v2=Sapphire|t=FFF|t2=FFF|entry=Umbreon evolved as a result of exposure to the moon's waves. It hides silently in darkness and waits for its foes to make a move. The rings on its body glow when it leaps to attack.}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=Emerald|t=FFF|entry=Umbreon evolved from exposure to the moon's energy pulses. It lurks in darkness and waits for its foes to move. The rings on its body glow when it leaps to attack.}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=FireRed|entry=When darkness falls, the rings on the body begin to glow, striking fear in the hearts of anyone nearby.}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=LeafGreen|entry=When agitated, this Pokémon protects itself by spraying poisonous sweat from its pores.}}
|}
|}
{{Dex/Gen|gen=IV}}
{{Dex/Entry2|v=Diamond|v2=Pearl|entry=The light of the moon changed {{p|Eevee}}'s genetic structure. It lurks in darkness for prey.}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=Platinum|entry=When exposed to the moon's aura, the rings on its body glow faintly and it gains a mysterious power.}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=HeartGold|entry=When agitated, this Pokémon protects itself by spraying poisonous sweat from its pores.}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=SoulSilver|entry=When darkness falls, the rings on the body begin to glow, striking fear in the hearts of anyone nearby.}}
|}
|}
{{Dex/Gen|gen=V}}
{{Dex/Entry2|v=Black|v2=White|t=FFF|entry=When exposed to the moon's aura, the rings on its body glow faintly and it gains a mysterious power.}}
{{Dex/Entry2|v=Black 2|v2=White 2|t=FFF|entry=When exposed to the moon's aura, the rings on its body glow faintly and it's filled with a mysterious power.}}
|}
|}
{{Dex/Gen|gen=VI}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=X|t=FFF|entry=The light of the moon changed {{p|Eevee}}'s genetic structure. It lurks in darkness for prey.}}
{{Dex/Entry1|v=Y|entry=When exposed to the moon's aura, the rings on its body glow faintly and it's filled with a mysterious power.}}
{{Dex/Entry2|v=Omega Ruby|v2=Alpha Sapphire|t=FFF|t2=FFF|entry=Umbreon evolved as a result of exposure to the moon's waves. It hides silently in darkness and waits for its foes to make a move. The rings on its body glow when it leaps to attack.}}
|}
|}
{{Dex/Footer}}

===Game locations===
{{Availability/Header|type=Dark}}
{{Availability/NA|gen=II}}
{{Availability/Gen|gen=II}}
{{Availability/Entry2|v=Gold|v2=Silver|area=[[Evolution|Evolve]] {{p|Eevee}}}}
{{Availability/Entry1|v=Crystal|area=[[Evolution|Evolve]] {{p|Eevee}}}}
|}
|}
{{Availability/Gen|gen=III}}
{{Availability/Entry2/None|v=Ruby|v2=Sapphire|area=[[Trade]], {{pkmn2|Event}}}}
{{Availability/Entry1/None|v=Emerald|area=[[Trade]], {{pkmn2|Event}}}}
{{Availability/Entry2/None|v=FireRed|v2=LeafGreen|area=[[Trade]], {{pkmn2|Event}}}}
{{Availability/Entry1|v=Colosseum|area=[[Starter Pokémon]]}}
{{Availability/Entry1|v=XD|t=FFF|link=Pokémon XD: Gale of Darkness|area=[[Evolution|Evolve]] {{p|Eevee}}}}
|}
|}
{{Availability/Gen|gen=IV}}
{{Availability/Entry2|v=Diamond|v2=Pearl|area=[[Evolution|Evolve]] {{p|Eevee}}}}
{{Availability/Entry1|v=Platinum|area=[[Evolution|Evolve]] {{p|Eevee}}}}
{{Availability/Entry2|v=HeartGold|v2=SoulSilver|area=[[Evolution|Evolve]] {{p|Eevee}}}}
{{Availability/Entry1|v=Pal Park|color={{locationcolor/light|land}}|link=Pal Park|area={{DL|List of Pokémon by Pal Park location|Field}}}}
|}
|}
{{Availability/Gen|gen=V}}
{{Availability/Entry2/None|v=Black|v2=White|area=[[Evolution|Evolve]] {{pkmn|Dream World}} {{p|Eevee}}}}
{{Availability/Entry2|v=Black 2|v2=White 2|t=FFF|area=[[Evolution|Evolve]] {{p|Eevee}}}}
|}
|}
{{Availability/Gen|gen=VI}}
{{Availability/Entry2|v=X|v2=Y|t=FFF|area=[[Evolution|Evolve]] {{p|Eevee}}}}
{{Availability/Entry2|v=Omega Ruby|v2=Alpha Sapphire|t=fff|t2=fff|area=[[Evolution|Evolve]] {{p|Eevee}}}}
|}
|}
{{Availability/Footer}}

====In side games====
{{SidegameAvail
|type=dark
|trozei=[[Secret Storage 20]] [[Mr. Who's Den]]
|md=Evolve from {{p|Eevee}} with Lunar Ribbon{{tt|*|5 IQ stats needed}}
|ranger=[[Fiore Temple]]
|md2=[[Concealed Ruins]] (B1-B29) [[World Abyss]] (B1-B29)
|ranger2=[[Chroma Ruins]]
|ranger3=[[Oblivia Ruins]] [[Dark Temple]]
|pokepark=[[Haunted Zone]]
|rumble2=Hauntyard: [[Everspring Valley]]
|conquest=[[Evolution|Evolve]] {{p|Eevee}}
|mdgti=[[Axe Rock]], [[Dreamy Island]], [[Jaws of the Abyss]], [[Cape at the Edge]], [[Slumbering Cave]], Magnagate dungeons, Automatically recruited after completing [[Crags of Lament]], [[Rusty Mountain]] (Golden Chamber), [[Silent Tundra]] (Mapless Street), [[Smoking Mountain]] (Golden Chamber and Mapless Street), [[Moonlit Forest]] (Golden Chamber)
}}

====In events====
{{eventAvail/h|Language/Region|type=dark}}
{{eventAvail|{{gameabbrev3|RSE}}{{gameabbrev3|FRLG}}|Journey Across America Umbreon|English|United States|70|February 25 to July 23, 2006|link=List of Journey Across America event Pokémon distributions#Umbreon}}
{{eventAvail|{{gameabbrev3|RSE}}{{gameabbrev3|FRLG}}|Party of the Decade Umbreon|English|United States|70|August 8, 2006|link=List of Party of the Decade event Pokémon distributions#Umbreon}}
{{eventAvail|{{gameabbrev3|XY}}|2013 Birthday Umbreon|All|Japan|10|October 12, 2013 to September 30, 2014|link=List of local event Pokémon distributions in Generation VI#Umbreon}}
|}

====Pokémon Global Link promotions====
{{eventAvail/h|type=dark}}
{{eventAvail|{{gameabbrev3|BW}}|Global Link Umbreon|Japanese|PGL|10|October 20, 2010 to January 31, 2011|link=List of Pokémon Global Link promotions/Pokémon#Umbreon}}
{{eventAvail|{{gameabbrev3|BW}}|Global Link Umbreon|Korean|PGL|10|May 18 to August 31, 2011|link=List of Pokémon Global Link promotions/Pokémon#Umbreon}}
{{eventAvail|{{gameabbrev3|BW}}|Global Link Umbreon|English|PGL|10|May 19 to July 19, 2011|link=List of Pokémon Global Link promotions/Pokémon#Umbreon}}
{{eventAvail|{{gameabbrev3|BW}}|Global Link Umbreon|French|PGL|10|May 19 to July 19, 2011|link=List of Pokémon Global Link promotions/Pokémon#Umbreon}}
{{eventAvail|{{gameabbrev3|BW}}|Global Link Umbreon|German|PGL|10|May 19 to July 19, 2011|link=List of Pokémon Global Link promotions/Pokémon#Umbreon}}
{{eventAvail|{{gameabbrev3|BW}}|Global Link Umbreon|Italian|PGL|10|May 19 to July 19, 2011|link=List of Pokémon Global Link promotions/Pokémon#Umbreon}}
{{eventAvail|{{gameabbrev3|BW}}|Global Link Umbreon|Spanish|PGL|10|May 19 to July 19, 2011|link=List of Pokémon Global Link promotions/Pokémon#Umbreon}}
|}

===Stats===
====Base stats====
{{BaseStats|
type=dark |
HP= 95 |
Attack= 65 |
Defense=110 |
SpAtk= 60 |
SpDef= 130 |
Speed= 65 }}

====Pokéathlon stats====
{{Pokéthlon
|type=Dark
|Speed=2
|SpeedMax=3
|Power=4
|PowerMax=4
|Technique=2
|TechniqueMax=2
|Stamina=4
|StaminaMax=5
|Jump=3
|JumpMax=3
}}

===Type effectiveness===
{{TypeEffectiveness|
type1=Dark|

Normal= 100 |
Fighting=200 |
Flying= 100 |
Poison= 100 |
Ground= 100 |
Rock= 100 |
Bug= 200 |
Ghost= 50 |
Steel= 100 |

Fire= 100 |
Water= 100 |
Grass= 100 |
Electric=100 |
Psychic= 0 |
Ice= 100 |
Dragon= 100 |
Dark= 50 |
Fairy= 200|
notes=yes|
dark=yes|
newpsychic=1}}

===Learnset===
====By [[Level|leveling up]]====
{{learnlist/levelh/6|Umbreon|Dark|Dark|2|xy=n}}
{{learnlist/level6|Start|Helping Hand|Normal|Status|—|—|20|||Clever|4|0}}
{{learnlist/level6|Start|Tackle|Normal|Physical|50|100|35|||Tough|4|0}}
{{learnlist/level6|Start|Tail Whip|Normal|Status|—|100|30|||Cute|2|0}}
{{learnlist/level6|5|Sand Attack|Ground|Status|—|100|15|||Cute|3|0}}
{{learnlist/level6|9|Pursuit|Dark|Physical|40|100|20||'''|Clever|2|1}}
{{learnlist/level6|13|Quick Attack|Normal|Physical|40|100|30|||Cool|3|0}}
{{learnlist/level6|17|Confuse Ray|Ghost|Status|—|100|10|||Clever|2|1}}
{{learnlist/level6|20|Feint Attack|Dark|Physical|60|—|20||'''|Clever|2|0}}
{{learnlist/level6|25|Assurance|Dark|Physical|60|100|10||'''|Clever|1|0}}
{{learnlist/level6|29|Screech|Normal|Status|—|85|40|||Clever|3|0}}
{{learnlist/level6|33|Moonlight|Fairy|Status|—|—|5|||Beautiful|1|0}}
{{learnlist/level6|37|Mean Look|Normal|Status|—|—|5|||Beautiful|2|0}}
{{learnlist/level6|41|Last Resort|Normal|Physical|140|100|5|||Cute|1|0}}
{{learnlist/level6|45|Guard Swap|Psychic|Status|—|—|10|||Clever|1|0}}
{{learnlist/levelf/6|Umbreon|Dark|Dark|2}}

====By [[TM]]/[[HM]]====
{{learnlist/tmh/6|Umbreon|Dark|Dark|2|xy=n}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM06|Toxic|Poison|Status|—|90|10|||Clever|3|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM10|Hidden Power|Normal|Special|60|100|15|||Clever|3|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM11|Sunny Day|Fire|Status|—|—|5|||Beautiful|1|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM12|Taunt|Dark|Status|—|100|20|||Clever|2|1}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM15|Hyper Beam|Normal|Special|150|90|5|||Cool|4|4}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM17|Protect|Normal|Status|—|—|10|||Cute|2|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM18|Rain Dance|Water|Status|—|—|5|||Beautiful|1|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM21|Frustration|Normal|Physical|—|100|20|||Cute|2|3}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM27|Return|Normal|Physical|—|100|20|||Cute|4|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM28|Dig|Ground|Physical|80|100|10|||Tough|2|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM29|Psychic|Psychic|Special|90|100|10|||Clever|4|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM30|Shadow Ball|Ghost|Special|80|100|15|||Clever|4|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM32|Double Team|Normal|Status|—|—|15|||Cool|1|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM41|Torment|Dark|Status|—|100|15|||Tough|2|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM42|Facade|Normal|Physical|70|100|20|||Cute|2|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM44|Rest|Psychic|Status|—|—|10|||Cute|1|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM45|Attract|Normal|Status|—|100|15|||Cute|2|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM48|Round|Normal|Special|60|100|15|||Beautiful|2|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM49|Echoed Voice|Normal|Special|40|100|15|||Beautiful|3|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM66|Payback|Dark|Physical|50|100|10||'''|Tough|2|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM67|Retaliate|Normal|Physical|70|100|5|||Cool|3|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM68|Giga Impact|Normal|Physical|150|90|5|||Tough|4|4}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM70|Flash|Normal|Status|—|100|20|||Beautiful|3|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM77|Psych Up|Normal|Status|—|—|10|||Clever|2|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM85|Dream Eater|Psychic|Special|100|100|15|||Clever|2|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM87|Swagger|Normal|Status|—|90|15|||Cute|3|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM88|Sleep Talk|Normal|Status|—|—|10|||Cute|1|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM90|Substitute|Normal|Status|—|—|10|||Cute|2|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM94|Secret Power|Normal|Physical|70|100|20|{{sup/6|ORAS}}||Clever|1|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM95|Snarl|Dark|Special|55|95|15||'''|Tough|4|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM97|Dark Pulse|Dark|Special|80|100|15||'''|Cool|4|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM100|Confide|Normal|Status|—|—|20|||Cute|3|0}}
{{learnlist/tm6|HM01|Cut|Normal|Physical|50|95|30|||Cool|4|0}}
{{learnlist/tmf/6|Umbreon|Dark|Dark|2}}

====By {{pkmn|breeding}}====
{{learnlist/breedh/6|Umbreon|Dark|Dark|2|xy=n}}
{{learnlist/breed6|{{MSP|032|Nidoran♂}}{{MSP|033|Nidorino}}{{MSP|037|Vulpix}}{{MSP|300|Skitty}}{{MSP|509|Purrloin}}{{MSP|572|Minccino}}|Captivate|Normal|Status|—|100|20|||Cute|4|0}}
{{learnlist/breed6|{{MSP|133|Eevee}}{{MSP|209|Snubbull}}{{MSP|210|Granbull}}{{MSP|216|Teddiursa}}{{MSP|231|Phanpy}}{{MSP|300|Skitty}} {{MSP|417|Pachirisu}}{{MSP|427|Buneary}}{{MSP|428|Lopunny}}{{MSP|431|Glameow}}{{MSP|432|Purugly}}{{MSP|572|Minccino}} {{MSP|585|Deerling}}{{MSP|586|Sawsbuck}}{{MSP|613|Cubchoo}}|Charm|Fairy|Status|—|100|20|||Cute|2|1}}
{{learnlist/breed6|{{MSP|056|Mankey}}{{MSP|133|Eevee}}{{MSP|216|Teddiursa}}{{MSP|217|Ursaring}}{{MSP|263|Zigzagoon}}{{MSP|264|Linoone}} {{MSP|287|Slakoth}}{{MSP|289|Slaking}}{{MSP|300|Skitty}}|Covet|Normal|Physical|60|100|25|||Cute|1|0}}
{{learnlist/breed6|{{MSP|322|Numel}}{{MSP|323|Camerupt}}{{MSP|324|Torkoal}}{{MSP|399|Bidoof}}{{MSP|400|Bibarel}}|Curse|Ghost|Status|—|—|10|||Tough|3|0}}
{{learnlist/breed6|{{MSP|335|Zangoose}}{{MSP|359|Absol}}{{MSP|448|Lucario}}{{MSP|504|Patrat}}{{MSP|505|Watchog}}{{MSP|619|Mienfoo}} {{MSP|620|Mienshao}}|Detect|Fighting|Status|—|—|5|||Cool|1|0}}
{{learnlist/breed6|{{MSP|220|Swinub}}{{MSP|221|Piloswine}}{{MSP|473|Mamoswine}}{{MSP|231|Phanpy}}{{MSP|288|Vigoroth}}{{MSP|417|Pachirisu}} {{MSP|427|Buneary}}{{MSP|428|Lopunny}}{{MSP|613|Cubchoo}}{{MSP|614|Beartic}}|Endure|Normal|Status|—|—|10|||Tough|3|0}}
{{learnlist/breed6|{{MSP|216|Teddiursa}}{{MSP|217|Ursaring}}{{MSP|303|Mawile}}{{MSP|570|Zorua}}|Fake Tears|Dark|Status|—|100|20|||Cute|4|0}}
{{learnlist/breed6|{{MSP|206|Dunsparce}}{{MSP|220|Swinub}}{{MSP|231|Phanpy}}{{MSP|263|Zigzagoon}}{{MSP|287|Slakoth}}{{MSP|289|Slaking}} {{MSP|324|Torkoal}}{{MSP|327|Spinda}}{{MSP|613|Cubchoo}}{{MSP|614|Beartic}}|Flail|Normal|Physical|—|100|15|||Cute|1|0}}
{{learnlist/breed6|{{MSP|231|Phanpy}}{{MSP|511|Pansage}}{{MSP|513|Pansear}}{{MSP|515|Panpour}}|Natural Gift|Normal|Physical|—|100|15|||Clever|1|0}}
{{learnlist/breed6|{{MSP|517|Munna}}|Stored Power|Psychic|Special|20|100|10|||Clever|1|0}}
{{learnlist/breed6|{{MSP|293|Whismur}}{{MSP|294|Loudred}}{{MSP|295|Exploud}}{{MSP|352|Kecleon}}{{MSP|517|Munna}}|Synchronoise|Psychic|Special|120|100|15|||Clever|2|0}}
{{learnlist/breed6|{{MSP|190|Aipom}}{{MSP|424|Ambipom}}{{MSP|572|Minccino}}{{MSP|573|Cinccino}}|Tickle|Normal|Status|—|100|20|||Cute|3|0}}
{{learnlist/breed6|{{MSP|025|Pikachu}}{{MSP|300|Skitty}}|Wish|Normal|Status|—|—|10|*||Cute|3|0}}
{{learnlist/breed6|{{MSP|194|Wooper}}{{MSP|195|Quagsire}}{{MSP|206|Dunsparce}}{{MSP|287|Slakoth}}{{MSP|289|Slaking}}{{MSP|322|Numel}} {{MSP|323|Camerupt}}{{MSP|399|Bidoof}}{{MSP|400|Bibarel}}{{MSP|449|Hippopotas}}{{MSP|450|Hippowdon}}{{MSP|513|Pansear}} {{MSP|517|Munna}}|Yawn|Normal|Status|—|—|10|||Cute|2|0}}
{{learnlist/breedf/6|Umbreon|Dark|Dark|2}}

====By [[Move Tutor|tutoring]]====
{{learnlist/tutorh/6|Umbreon|Dark|Dark|2|xy=n}}
{{learnlist/tutor6|Covet|Normal|Physical|60|100|25|||no|yes|Cute|1|0}}
{{learnlist/tutor6|Foul Play|Dark|Physical|95|100|15||'''|no|yes|Clever|1|0}}
{{learnlist/tutor6|Heal Bell|Normal|Status|—|—|5|||no|yes|Beautiful|1|0}}
{{learnlist/tutor6|Helping Hand|Normal|Status|—|—|20|||no|yes|Clever|4|0}}
{{learnlist/tutor6|Hyper Voice|Normal|Special|90|100|10|||no|yes|Cool|2|2}}
{{learnlist/tutor6|Iron Tail|Steel|Physical|100|75|15|||no|yes|Cool|4|0}}
{{learnlist/tutor6|Last Resort|Normal|Physical|140|100|5|||no|yes|Cute|1|0}}
{{learnlist/tutor6|Snatch|Dark|Status|—|—|10|||no|yes|Clever|1|0}}
{{learnlist/tutor6|Snore|Normal|Special|50|100|15|||no|yes|Cute|4|0}}
{{learnlist/tutor6|Spite|Ghost|Status|—|100|10|||no|yes|Tough|2|1}}
{{learnlist/tutor6|Wonder Room|Psychic|Status|—|—|10|||no|yes|Clever|3|0}}
{{learnlist/tutorf/6|Umbreon|Dark|Dark|2}}

====By a prior [[evolution]]====
{{learnlist/prevoh/6|Umbreon|Dark|Dark|2|xy=n}}
{{learnlist/prevo6|133|Eevee|||||Growl|Normal|Status|—|100|40||Cute|2|0}}
{{learnlist/prevo6|133|Eevee|||||Baby-Doll Eyes|Fairy|Status|—|100|30||Cute|3|0}}
{{learnlist/prevo6|133|Eevee|||||Swift|Normal|Special|60|—|20||Cool|2|0}}
{{learnlist/prevo6|133|Eevee|||||Bite|Dark|Physical|60|100|25|'''|Tough|2|3}}
{{learnlist/prevo6|133|Eevee|||||Refresh|Normal|Status|—|—|20||Cute|2|0}}
{{learnlist/prevo6|133|Eevee|||||Covet|Normal|Physical|60|100|25||Cute|1|0}}
{{learnlist/prevo6|133|Eevee|||||Take Down|Normal|Physical|90|85|20||Tough|6|0}}
{{learnlist/prevo6|133|Eevee|||||Charm|Fairy|Status|—|100|20||Cute|2|1}}
{{learnlist/prevo6|133|Eevee|||||Baton Pass|Normal|Status|—|—|40||Cute|1|0}}
{{learnlist/prevo6|133|Eevee|||||Double-Edge|Normal|Physical|120|100|15||Tough|6|0}}
{{learnlist/prevo6|133|Eevee|||||Trump Card|Normal|Special|—|—|5||Cool|1|0}}
{{learnlist/prevof/6|Umbreon|Dark|Dark|2}}

====By {{pkmn2|event}}s====
{{learnlist/eventh/6|Umbreon|Dark|Dark|2|xy=n}}
{{learnlist/event6|[[List of local event Pokémon distributions in Generation VI#Umbreon|2013 Birthday Umbreon]]|Celebrate|Normal|Status|—|—|40||||Cute|2|0}}
{{learnlist/eventf/6|Umbreon|Dark|Dark|2}}

===Side game data===
{{Sidegame|
type=dark |
ndex=197 |
Trozei=yes |
rarity=Rare |
Dungeon=yes |
body=1 |
rate=Evolve |
area=Transform Forest |
P1=I can take foes down using poison! |
P2=This looks bad... My health is halfway gone. |
P3=I'm nearly done... My muscles are spent... |
PL=My level's up. My poison has intensified, too. |
Partner=no |
Ranger=yes |
group=Dark |
assist=Dark |
field=None |
loop=7 |
MinEXP=75 |
MaxEXP=89 |
browser=Umbreon is not only quick, it reduces visibility to make capture difficult. |
Dungeon2=yes |
body2=1 |
rate2=-12 |
iq=F |
Ranger2=yes |
group2=Dark |
assist2=Dark |
field2=Cut |
field2power=3 |
browser2=It attacks by releasing a dark pulse. |
Ranger3=yes |
group3=Dark |
assist3=Dark |
field3=Cut |
field3power=3 |
browser3=It releases dark pulses around itself that make Pokémon Tired. |
rumble2=yes|
rumble2attack=2|
rumble2defense=5|
rumble2speed=3|
Pad=Umbreon often plays in the [[Haunted Zone]]. He's a good friend of {{p|Espeon}}'s and his favorite Attraction is {{DL|Attractions|Dusknoir's Speed Slam!}} |
Pad2=He likes to create a racecourse and let someone run it. He creates it quickly and accurately. |
Park2strong= |
Park2weak= |
Conquest=yes |
ConquestAtk=2 |
ConquestSpd=3 |
ConquestDef=5 |
ConquestHP=4 |
ConquestRange=4 |
ConquestMove={{m|Assurance}} |
ConquestAbility1={{DL|List of Abilities in Pokémon Conquest|Shackle}} |
ConquestAbility2={{DL|List of Abilities in Pokémon Conquest|Melee}} |
ConquestAbility3={{DL|List of Abilities in Pokémon Conquest|Dodge}} |
ConquestEvo=Evolves from {{p|Eevee}} when it has a link of 70% or higher and is deployed in [[Yaksha]] |
ConquestLink='''[[Hero]]'''/'''[[Heroine]]'''
}}

===Evolution===
{{Evobox-2
|type1=Dark
|pictype=art
|no1=133
|name1=Eevee
|type1-1=Normal
|evo1={{bag|Soothe Bell}} {{color2|000|Friendship}} (night)
|no2=197
|name2=Umbreon
|type1-2=Dark}}

===Sprites===
{{Spritebox/Header|type=dark}}
{{Spritebox/NA|II}}
{{Spritebox/2|ndex=197}}
{{Spritebox/3|ndex=197}}
{{Spritebox/4|ndex=197}}
{{Spritebox/5|ndex=197}}
{{Spritebox/6|ndex=197}}
{{Spritebox/Footer|197|Umbreon}}

==Trivia==
* By [[National Pokédex]] order, Umbreon is the first {{type|Dark}} Pokémon.
* Eevee cannot be evolved into Espeon or Umbreon in {{2v2|FireRed|LeafGreen}} due to the lack of a time system.
* In {{g|Stadium 2}}, {{g|Colosseum}}, and {{Pokémon XD}}, Umbreon glows between its regular and Shiny colorations.
* According to the {{2v2|Diamond|Pearl}} Pokédex, Umbreon, {{p|Glaceon}}, and {{p|Leafeon}} have identical footprints.
* Despite appearing many times, no Umbreon in the anime has ever been seen using any Dark-type moves.

===Origin===
Umbreon's origins are uncertain, though it could be based on a {{wp|black cat}} or possibly a black fox, a color variation of the {{wp|red fox}}. Its long ears also are similar to those of a hare; numerous East Asian legends concern a {{wp|Moon rabbit}}. The rings on Umbreon's body look like Egyptian lunar markings and jewelry that have been associated with animal sculptures, such as cat statues of Bastet and statues of the jackal god, Anubis, from Ancient Egypt. They may also be meant to resemble solar eclipses.

====Name origin====
Umbreon is a combination of ''{{wp|umbra}}'' (Latin for ''shadow'' and ''ghost'', as well as the name for the moon's silhouette during a solar eclipse) and ''eon'', a shortened form of ''evolution'', the word also meaning an immeasurably long period of time (possibly referring to how long evolution takes naturally). ''Eon'' is a suffix all {{p|Eevee}} [[evolution]]s share and was Eevee's English prototype name.

Blacky may be a combination of ''black'' and ''lucky'', attributing the black cat in Japan that is considered lucky. It may also refer to the color of its coat.

==In other languages==
{{Other languages|type=dark|type2=dark
|ja=ブラッキー ''Blacky''|jameaning=From ''black'' and ''lucky''
|fr=Noctali|frmeaning=From ''{{tt|nocturne|nocturnal}}''. Ends with ''-li'' like every [[Eeveelution]] in French
|es=Umbreon|esmeaning=Same as English name
|de=Nachtara|demeaning=From ''{{tt|Nacht|night}}''. Ends with ''-a'' like every Eeveelution in German
|it=Umbreon|itmeaning=Same as English name
|ko=블래키 ''Beulleki''|komeaning=Transliteration of its Japanese name
|zh_cmn=月精靈 / 月精灵 ''Yuèjīnglíng''|zh_cmnmeaning=Means "Moon spirit". Ends with {{tt|-精靈 / -精灵|spirit, fairy, elf}} like every Eeveelution in Mandarin
|zh_yue=月伊貝 ''Yuhtyībui''|zh_yuemeaning=Literally "Moon Eevee". Ends with {{tt|-伊貝|Eevee}} like every Eeveelution in Cantonese
|hi=आम्ब्रियन ''Umbreon''|himeaning=Transliteration of English name}}
 

==Related articles==
* [[Gary's Umbreon]]

==Notes==
<references/>
==External links==
* {{wp|Espeon and Umbreon|Article on Wikipedia}}

{{Starter Pokémon|dark}}
{{-}}
{{PokémonPrevNextFoot | prev=Espeon | next=Murkrow |type=dark|| prevnum=196| nextnum=198}}
{{-}}
{{Project Pokédex notice}}

[[Category:Pokémon that run from battle]]

[[de:Nachtara]]
[[es:Umbreon]]
[[fr:Noctali]]
[[it:Umbreon]]
[[ja:ブラッキー]]
[[pl:Umbreon]]
[[pt:Umbreon (pokémon)]]
[[zh:月精灵]]

Talk:Psyduck (Pokémon)

2014-10-01T14:42:14Z

Ericss: /* Platypus? */ new section

{{Rotating art}}
== Water/Psychic ==

Why isn't Psyduck classified as water/psychic, instead of just water? [[User:Aiddat|Aiddat]] 01:51, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Why don't you ask Satoshi Taijiri himself?--[[User:Pokencyclopedia|Pokencyclopedia]] 10:53, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Heh, somebody probably just forgot something. I mean, when they designed the Pokemon. [[User:Aiddat|Aiddat]] 11:58, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
::Maybe because only Psyduck's psychic move learned by level is Confusion. The other Pokémon Water/Psychic (for example Staryu or Slowpoke) can learn more psychic moves by level. --[[User:Valepert|Valepert]] 12:05, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
beats me.-Legopokemonplease

But Still, what other {{t|Water}} Types learn Psychic Moves. Plus I love Psychic Types so the more the merrier! --{{u|Asujoll}} the {{t|Psychic}} Master

Explain why Stantler isn't Psychic or why Venomoth isn't. Both learn more Psychic attacks than Psyduck. They just aren't. There is no real explination other than "Creator made them that way" [[User:Xanhawk|Xanhawk]] 23:15 Dec 21, 2008

But look at Psyduck's pokedex entries. You can't tell me those entries aren't describing a psychic type pokemon.[[User:Buddy Christ|Buddy Christ]]
:Leave that for the forums, people. [[User:Ht14|'''''ht''''']][[User talk:Ht14|''14'']] 03:58, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

==Sprite==
:Is there any reason the Ruby and Sapphire sprite is really thin? Or is my browser messing it up? [[User:The Dark Fiddler|The Dark Fiddler]] - [[User talk:The Dark Fiddler|Smarter than the average bear!]] 17:30, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
::That's weird. It's displaying thin on mine too. The actual image is 64×64 though. — [[User:Laoris|Laoris]] ([[User_Talk:Laoris|Blah]]) 17:50, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
:::It looks wierd on firefox to. Ill check the coding--[[User:DCM|DCM]][[User talk:DCM|((Shut the **** up]][[Special:Contributions/DCM|Spy on My Edits))]]
::::Actually, quite a few Pokémon have the same problem... I can remember Chansey, Doduo, and Grimer off the top of my head. [[User:The Dark Fiddler|The Dark Fiddler]] - [[User talk:The Dark Fiddler|Smarter than the average bear!]] 19:48, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

== also REST! ==

hey, shouldn't it be mentioned that Psyduck also learns the move Rest via Breeding?
it hasn't been mentioned in the article....{{Unsigned|Ironcolossus4}}
:Actually, that statement is false. Psyduck learns Rest by TM so if the father of the Psyduck knew rest, the baby Psyduck would too. [[User:Turtwig A|Turt]][[wig]] [[Turtwig (Pokémon)|A]] ([[User talk:Turtwig A|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|contribs]]) 03:37, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

i swear.... mine learned Rest from a male Grumpig knowing this move... the Female Psyduck which was the mother, didn't know this move at all.... {{unsigned|Ironcolossus4}}
:The above statement said the '''father''' of the Psyduck. [[User:Turtwig A|Turt]][[wig]] [[Turtwig (Pokémon)|A]] ([[User talk:Turtwig A|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|contribs]]) 16:52, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

==New idea for name origin==

I think the psy in Psyduck means psycho, not psychic. [[Mothim (Pokémon)|Mothim]] [[User:Wildgoose|will]] [[User talk:Wildgoose|rule]] [[Special:Contributions/Wildgoose|all!]] 20:36, 23 December 2011 (UTC) December 23 2011 3:36 p. m.

:I doubt it, seeing as there's really no connection between the Pokemon's behavior and "psycho". [[User:Lord Grammaticus|Lord Grammaticus]] 20:39, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

::Neither is the Pokémon related to psychic. Psycho means '''brain''', not crazy if you put it in the non-slang way. [[Mothim (Pokémon)|Mothim]] [[User:Wildgoose|will]] [[User talk:Wildgoose|rule]] [[Special:Contributions/Wildgoose|all!]] 23:40, 23 December 2011 (UTC) December 23 2011 6:40 p. m. ET

::Perhaps, perhaps not. [[User:Lord Grammaticus|Lord Grammaticus]] 20:37, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

:::I agree with Wildgoose, because Psyduck isn't a Psychic type, I find Psycho to be a more logical origin. '''[[User:Toon Ganondorf|Toon Ganondorf ]] [[User Talk:Toon Ganondorf|(t]] [[Special:Contributions/Toon Ganondorf|c)]]''' 00:30, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
::::Hmm, I think that it's not Psycho as in brain, but Psycho as in ''psychogenic'' having origin in the mind or in a mental condition or process. Many Dex entries talk about Psyduck's mental state and always having headaches. So I think it's short for the full word psychogenic not just plain psycho. [[User:Pokemaster97|--Pokemaster]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|97]] 01:13, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
:::::I agree with Pokemaster97. [[User:Wildgoose|Wild]][[User talk:Wildgoose|goose]]-[[Special:Contributions/Wildgoose|The friendly goose in town!]] 01:32, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
==Wacan berry?==
Generation IV. 6-19-11 Basement of Oreburgh Cave. Caught a Psyduck (lvl. 9). The thing was holding a Wacan Berry. If this can be verified, dibs on editing. It's probably a 5% chance (like with buizel and floatzel) MUST STOP USiNG FRAGMENTS! [[User:Dudey997|Dudey997]] 06:03, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

== Duck ==

When it comes to a duck, it's appearance is more based on a "cartoonish" duck than a real one. That's why it has claws, a large bill, and doesn't fly as cartoon ducks are often portrayed having hands, large bills, and don't usually fly like Donald Duck and Daffy Duck.[[User:Bennell|Bennell]] 14:41, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

== Platypus? ==

How is Psyduck a platypus? It doesn't have a beaver tail or anything like that. It's clear to me that the Pyduck family is based on ducks and kappas, not platypuses. - [[User:Ericss|Ericss]] ([[User talk:Ericss|talk]]) 14:42, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

Talk:Pokémon Black and White Versions 2

2014-09-11T23:30:03Z

Ericss: /* 3DS features? */ new section

==Formes==
It says "Two new formes" but it does not say "of Kyurem." [[User:TorchicBlaziken|TorchicBlaziken]] ([[User_talk:TorchicBlaziken|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/TorchicBlaziken|edits]]) 02:22, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
:We won't know if they are formes of Kyurem until a source confirms it. Right now, it's all speculation.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 02:26, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
::While it is all speculation they look more like alternate forms of Reshiram and Zekrom instead. [[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen Fennec]] 02:34, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
:::[https://twitter.com/#!/Junichi_Masuda/status/173576515219505153 Stated Kyurem here.] But there's debate on whether they're forms or separate Pokémon. [[Typhlosion (Pokémon)|★]][[User:Jo The Marten|Jo the Marten]][[Flygon (Pokémon)|★]] [[User_Talk:Jo The Marten|ಠ_ಠ]][[Cilan (anime)|♥]] 02:36, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
::::Ah, nice to know then. Wonder if they'll have something to do with Reshiram and Zekrom at all, also looking forward to a bit of change in the overall story plot. [[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen Fennec]] 02:39, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
:::::Well, from what it looks like, it seems that it is combining Zekrom/Reshiram with Kyurem. I wonder how they will do that? Item? Special shrine? But about what Jo said above, they will be forms, as it says in [[Kyurem]]s trivia ''"There is placeholder data for an alternate form of Kyurem in Pokémon Black and White".'' --[[User:Rsrdaman|'''×Rsr''']][[User_Talk:Rsrdaman|'''daman×''']] 02:59, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
::::::Actually, if you watch the trailer for the new movie coming out on the Japanese website, it shows Zekrom and Reshiram's powers going into Kyurem. This further confirms that these are Kyurem's alternate formes, and not Zekrom's our Reshiram's. [[User:Mikk317|Mikk317]] 05:10, 6 March 2012 (UTC)
I saw the covers of the games,and the white and black kyurem's on the covers look completely different then normal white kyurem and black kyurem.What gives?--[[User:Supermon|Supermon]] 12:38, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
:There's also two "formes" for Reshiram and Zekrom (lit up and not lit up). They are apparently some "mode" (Formes with forms?). We don't really know much about them yet. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 12:44, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

thanks. i thought that Kyurem had 5 formes or something!--[[User:Supermon|Supermon]] 11:30, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

reshiram and zekrom don't have two forms that is their animation.--[[User:Poke1|Poke1]] 22:48, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

And in the commercial it shows how kyurem changes from white kyurem without the tubes on the back to the white kyurem on the boxart.--[[User:Poke1|Poke1]] 23:58, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

== Names of mascots ==

Junichi Masuda has stated on Twitter that the names of the new forms are '''White Kyurem''' and '''Black Kyurem'''. [[User:ZMT123|ZMT123]] 03:32, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

==Interwiki==
Page is blocked, could you add an interwiki link to [[:it:Pokémon Nero e Bianco 2]]?--[[User:Qwilava|Qwilava]] 08:37, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
:Added. [[Typhlosion (Pokémon)|★]][[User:Jo The Marten|Jo the Marten]][[Flygon (Pokémon)|★]] [[User_Talk:Jo The Marten|ಠ_ಠ]][[Cilan (anime)|♥]] 08:38, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

==US website==
Doesn't appear to have been added. [http://www.pokemon.com/us/pokemon-video-games/pokemon-black-version-2-and-pokemon-white-version-2/ It's not much, but it's official.] [[User:GoldenCelebi|GoldenCelebi]] 10:57, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
:I am reluctant to add it. It is just a sub-section, unlike [http://www.pokemonblackwhite.com/ this one]. ♫♪ [[User:Adyniz|'''エイデ''']][[User talk:Adyniz|'''ィニズ''']] ♪♫ 11:21, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

== Color's for representation. ==

To avoid confusion with Black and White I think the 2 colors that represent this game on Wiki pages should be a blue and red to match the color on each logo and background for the official site. What do you guys think? [[User:ArchedThunder|ArchedThunder]] 12:41, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
:What about if it gets confused instead with the Generation I games Red and Blue? Just pointing out... [[User:Haxorus|'''Hax''']][[User talk:Haxorus|'''or''']][[Special:MyContributions|'''us''']] 12:45, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
::All I have to say is Ruby and Sapphire. Besides they will be a different shade just like Ruby and Sapphire where and they will also be reversed, being Blue and Red instead of Red and Blue.[[User:ArchedThunder|ArchedThunder]] 12:55, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
:::Thank you to the person who changed the color.[[User:ArchedThunder|ArchedThunder]] 13:14, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
::::Wait, who changed it back and why?[[User:ArchedThunder|ArchedThunder]] 13:53, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

== Mascots reversed? ==

I just noticed something on [http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/4/46/Kyurem_forms.png the new release]. The Kyurem/Zekrom and Kyurem/Reshiram are reversed. On the original B/W, Zekrom was on the white side, and Reshiram on the black side. Its seems its reversed now.--[[User:Rsrdaman|'''×Rsr''']][[User_Talk:Rsrdaman|'''daman×''']] 15:28, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
:Yes they are, but this isn't the right place for that discussion. Please go to the forums with comments/questions of this nature. [[User:Pokemaster97|--Pokemaster]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|97]] 15:44, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

== generation ==

why is it under generation v? is there any offical source to this (even though we know it might be true) -[[User:Pokeant|Pokeant]] 16:37, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

We don't really know if it is Gen V, but the fact that it uses forms of a Gen V Pokemon as its mascot make if all but confirmed. The way it looks, at least for now, is that they decided to ditch the 3rd game idea for this Gen and instead do two full sequels to BW. If they say these are a new gen or we see completely new Pokemon then we can start talking about this being Gen VI, but as it stands I think we should just leave it be.[[User:ArchedThunder|ArchedThunder]] 16:41, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

== Trying to clear up some unconfirmed rumors ==

I suggest a paragraph be added to the article stating something like "There is no confirmation on whether these games are a [[third version]] or not." [[User:Bwburke94|Bwburke94]] 20:26, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

The article doesn't even insinuate that, it says out right that they are second paired versions. 2 games can't be a 3rd version.[[User:ArchedThunder|ArchedThunder]] 22:43, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

:What he trying to mean is, most people think that these games are the '"double" 3rd versions, like Platinum, Emerald and Crystal. But if that's so, you mean these are just the continued part of original B&W? There will be a real "third" version? That's almost impossible. {{unsigned|Acellutor}}

== Classification ==

Well,looks like it can have'''3''' types-Dragon+ice+fire\electric.And can it be a new duo or trio with Kyurem or Part of the tao trio?--Shravs [[User talk:Littleroot leader shravan(ability leader)|(New Bark Gym)]] 05:09, 27 February 2012 (UTC)
:From sources, Kyurem has two new forms, each resemblin to Zekrom and/or Reshiram. So it would still be within the Tao trio. But 3 types is OP, and awkward considering the type advantages/disadvantages. I would say Kyurem would be Ice/Dragon but retaining the power of it's other form. My speculation point, but I would doubt 3 types. [[User:Chocos0|Chocos0]] 06:06, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

==European Autumn 2012 Release Confirmed==
Could someone with the powers to edit this page please add that Nintendo UK have confirmed an Autumn 2012 release for this pair? Source: http://www.officialnintendomagazine.co.uk/35866/pokemon-black-and-white-2-uk-release-date-is-autumn-2012/ [[User:Ryu Shoji|Ryu Shoji]], 10:56, 27 February, 2012 (BST)
:Done. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 11:14, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

== North America release confirmed: Fall 2012 ==

The American release window has been confirmed - see this article: http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2012/02/north_america_gets_pokemon_black_and_white_2_this_fall

I'm unable to add it to the article myself, so can someone who is able to edit it add the date?
[[User:NFreak007|NFreak007]] 14:55, 27 February 2012 (UTC)
:I just found out about this myself and updated [[n:Pokémon Black and White 2 coming to North America and Europe this autumn|the Bulbanews article]]. This page is now fixed too. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 15:01, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

== Redirect sentence regarding the BW002 episode ==

Greetings, I respectfully disagree with the unitalicising of the English title portion, "Enter Iris and Axew". On this site, all episode titles are italicised when put against regular unitalicised text, and the opposite should be done in this case as in other examples elsewhere in life. [[User:Haxorus|'''Hax''']][[User talk:Haxorus|'''or''']][[Special:MyContributions|'''us''']] 15:51, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
:It is already italicized, which is what is used for titles. When it is surrounded by italicized text, it doesn't need to become un-italicized. This is how everything else does it anyway. It is more important to have the title in italics rather than in contrast to regular text. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 03:23, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

== 3ds or ds ==

will this be on 3ds or ds i need to know {{unsigned|Pokefanboy}}

:It'll be on the [[Nintendo DS]], but will be compatible with the [[Nintendo 3DS]]. Yes, the press release was confusing. By the way, it's a good idea to sign your posts with <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>, which is converted into an automatic link to your userpage. {{unsigned|GoldenCelebi}}
:That article mentions this. Don't mean to sound rude, but this is exactly what this site is for. --[[User:HoennMaster|Hoenn]][[User talk:HoennMaster|Master]] 18:05, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

== English artwork ==
Possible to use these artworks? [http://fronttowardsgamer.com/2012/02/27/pokemon-black-and-white-2-announced/ Black & White 2] -- [[User:Chickensdoorknob|ℂℏɨ₡ƙ℮ᵰᵴ∂ⱺ☮яϰŊøɓ]] 23:53, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
:Those look fanmade. They look nothing like the leaked Japanese boxes and they always use the same. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 00:02, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
::Those aren't fanmade, actually- they're on [http://www.play-asia.com/Pokemon_White_Version_2/paOS-13-71-ba-49-en-70-4lbh.html Playasia] and other pre-order sites. They're only placeholders, though. Official placeholders, but placeholders nonetheless. [[User:Yamiidenryuu|Yamiidenryuu]] 15:04, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
:::Look at them, they were made in MSPaint. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 15:08, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

== Two official artworks? ==

How come Black Kyurem and White Kyurem have two official artworks? I'm not saying it's a mistake or even a lie, you can easily check that it's true by watching the Flash intro animation of the Japanese website. But that's the issue here: why are there two different yet official artworks for both of Kyurem's new Formes? [[User:Pokemon lover|Sato]][[User talk:Pokemon lover|Mew]] 17:33, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
:There's also two artworks for Reshiram and Zekrom (lit up and not lit up). They are apparently some "mode" (Formes with forms?). We don't really know much about them yet. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 13:36, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

I have the same opinion. The boxart may be some kind of 'mode' as in 'burst mode'or something. The boxart of White Kyurem looks vaguely similar to the art of primal dialga. The pic aforementioned is present in the bulbapedia archive. Please give ur thoughts on this post.[[User:Auraguardian197|Auraguardian197]]

i think it has to do with its ability. the glowing might be from turboblaze ant terravolt to white/black kyurem respectively. -{{u|deoxys80}}
:It's just their Overdrive mode. Reshiram and Zekrom had the ''exact same thing''. [[:a:File:643Reshiram.png|Normal Reshiram]], [[:a:File:643Reshiram-Activated.png|Overdrive Reshiram]]. [[:a:File:644Zekrom.png|Normal Zekrom]], [[:a:File:644Zekrom-Activated.png|Overdrive Zekrom]]. It has nothing to do with abilities, or moves, or formes. [[Typhlosion (Pokémon)|★]][[User:Jo The Marten|Jo the Marten]][[Flygon (Pokémon)|★]] [[User_Talk:Jo The Marten|ಠ_ಠ]][[Cilan (anime)|♥]] 18:21, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

== Trivia? ==

Would it be relevant and/or noteworthy to add that these games mark the second time the main series Pokémon games have the number 2 in their names, with the first time being the name initially announced for the original Gold and Silver ('''{{tt|ポケットモンスター２金・銀|Poketto Monsutā 2: Kin Gin}}''' ''Pocket Monsters 2: Gold and Silver'')? Even though the 2 was eventually dropped for Gold and Silver, it was still an official yet temporary name. [[User:Pokemon lover|Sato]][[User talk:Pokemon lover|Mew]] 17:49, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
:I'm totally for this. Something like: "These games are the first games in the main series to be released with a "2" in their name, though the Japanese versions of G/S were intended to have tis number in their name but this was dropped before release" ?? As long as there's a nod to the almost-Pkmn 2: G/S thing I think it's a great idea! [[User:Oshawhat?|Oshawhat?]] 09:14, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

Is this the first main-series game where the player lives in a different city than the Professor? Would that be trivia-worthy? [[User:EnosShayrem|Enos]][[Shaymin (Pokémon)|Shay]][[Kyurem (Pokémon)|rem]][[User_talk:EnosShayrem|Talk]] 23:05, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
:Professor Rowan from D/P/Pt would prove that point incorrect. '''''[[User:Pokemaster97|--Pokemaster]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|97]]''''' 23:24, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

== Parameter on the Japanese website URL ==

The URL for the Japanese website does not need the '''?a001=msign''' parameter. Please remove it. [[User:Pokemon lover|Sato]][[User talk:Pokemon lover|Mew]] 22:25, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

== Second set of direct sequels? ==

Aren't Black 2 and White 2 the second set of direct sequels in the main series? Gold and Silver are direct sequels to Red and Green (likewise, HeartGold and SoulSilver are direct sequels to FireRed and LeafGreen). The only difference is that they're from separate generations, since for all we know, Black 2 and White 2 are Generation V games like Black and White. If so, shouldn't this be mentioned in the article? [[User:Pokemon lover|Sato]][[User talk:Pokemon lover|Mew]] 22:31, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
:Considering that it hasn't even really been confirmed that these are sequels, I'd say no. Wait until we know for sure at least. [[User:Yamiidenryuu|Yamiidenryuu]] 00:11, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
::Don't worry, I'll wait. I can't edit the article anyway. I was just pointing out this so it can be taken in consideration when we have full details about the games. [[User:Pokemon lover|Sato]][[User talk:Pokemon lover|Mew]] 13:56, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

==No info?==

Ummmm... The games are available for preorder. Shouldn't there be info on the storyline and stuff? it's-a me, [[User:Slowbro|anonymous]]
:One would think there would be more info by now, but the reason is simply because no more info has been released. When more info is released it will be added to the article. [[User:Pokemaster97|--Pokemaster]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|97]] 22:50, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
::We will be getting lots of info next [[Pokémon Smash!]] (they said they would be revealing B2W2 info on that episode). --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 11:14, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

==Beta==

This could turn into beta. Any official source confirming that people are making this game? The above [[Special:Contributions/Wildgoose|comment]] is [[User talk: Wildgoose|supported]] by [[User:Wildgoose|Wildgoose]]. 00:57, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:Go to the article and scroll to the bottom. There is a list of sources there. [[User:Pokemaster97|--Pokemaster]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|97]] 01:09, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Australian Release Date ==

In the infobox, it lists the Australian release as Spring 2012. At first this really confused me as I thought only Japan got it this Spring. Because of the different seasons in the Northern and Southern hemisphere, and because a lot of Bulbapedia's users come from the Northern Hemisphere, could we add a tooltip to make it {{tt|Spring 2012|Northern Hemisphere Fall/Autumn}}. I think this would help a lot of people who came to the site. [[User:MajesticRayquaza|''Majestic'']][[User talk:MajesticRayquaza|'''Rayquaza''']] 09:08, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:I don't think so. The seasons will become irrelevant once we get an actual date, and the only people who should really be concerned with the release date are the people it applies to (i.e. Oceanians.) Plus it might seem unfair. If we put a note for the Northerners that South Spring = North Autumn, then we should do the same for Southerners that North Autumn = South Spring. [[Typhlosion (Pokémon)|★]][[User:Jo The Marten|Jo the Marten]][[Flygon (Pokémon)|★]] [[User_Talk:Jo The Marten|ಠ_ಠ]][[Cilan (anime)|♥]] 09:16, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Amazon release date ==

Not sure if this means anything but I just saw that Amazon (through the official Nintendo seller) has the two versions up for pre-order with a release date of December 31, 2012 (I'm not sure if that's their generic date for an unknown release or the actual date though). [[User:OnixPachirisu|OnixPachirisu]] 18:52, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It's just a placeholder so they can take pre-orders. Nintendo already announced a fall (Sept-Nov) release. --[[User:HoennMaster|Hoenn]][[User talk:HoennMaster|Master]] 18:57, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== More Release Date info ==

Per Play-Asia, the Japanese Version's release date is June 23rd, and the US release will be in October: http://www.play-asia.com/paOScore/19-71-8s-49-en-15-Pokemon-43-8s-18-2.html

[[User:Luigi-San|Luigi-San]] 03:09, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
:Well the Japanese release date is true. October does fit for the US, though is Play-asia a good source for information on the US release date? In any case, we'll probably find out about the US release date in a few months. Maybe E3? [[User:Torpoleon|Torpoleon]] 17:38, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
::It's been known for like [https://twitter.com/#!/bulbanews/status/179568320293511168 a month now]. Play-Asia is a decent source but I would still prefer to wait for an official source to confirm it, just for precautionary measures. ♫♪ [[User:Adyniz|'''エイデ''']][[User talk:Adyniz|'''ィニズ''']] ♪♫ 17:46, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

== Update ==
Page needs to be updated with new Coro Coro information. [[User:Dragonace|Dragonace]] 06:58, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
:Not yet.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 07:24, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

== Ice cover ==

I don't think the article should say that Unova is engulfed in ice because it says in the Bulbanews article that it is unconfirmed whether that is actually part of the region or it is just there to cover up areas that haven't been revealed yet. [[User:PkmnChmp5|PkmnChmp5]] 23:38, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
:I agree too. There seems to be a confusion. [[User:Han Ji-Wan|Han Ji-Wan]] 23:47, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
From a talk page it says that CoroCoro confirmed the ice is only to cover upcoming stuff--[[User:Poke1|Poke1]] 17:12, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
:::According to {{u|Umeko}}'s Nihongo-fu: ''What Corocoro says in reference to the ice is essentially "What in the world is with the map freezing over? Has something strange happened?!"'' [[User:Masatoshi|Masatoshi]][[User_talk:Masatoshi|''talk'']] 17:26, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

what is a Umeko's Nihongo-fu?--[[User:Poke1|Poke1]] 20:59, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
* Umeko is a person, and "Nihongo" is the Japanese word for "Japanese". It's an attempt by Umeko at translating it from Japanese. [[User:Rickie-d|Rickie-d]] 01:19, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

i think that it is just covering new areas otherwise there would be no Pokemon league [[User:Ultinuc|Ultinuc]] 01:28, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

== Towns ==

I am 99.9% certain that there are 3 towns in Southwest Unova, not 2. [[User:Han Ji-Wan|Han Ji-Wan]] 03:15, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

It says at least 2 towns.--[[User:Poke1|Poke1]] 20:58, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

I see three towns but the one below Driftveil City could also be something similar to Cold Storage. [[User:Ariano|Ariano]] 08:19, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

=="2"==
I think that Black ＆ White 2 is a reference to this version taking place 2 years after Black ＆ White. [[User:Ethan12|Ethan12]] 14:18, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
:Or... it's because they are the sequels to Black and White? [[User:Kookamooka|Kookamooka]] 18:51, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

== Images ==

I don't know if I'm doing this right, but... maybe these images can be used in the article?

<gallery>
File:B2W2 Prerelease theater.png|The theater?
File:B2W2 Prerelease VS Rival.png|The male player character and the rival's VS sprites
File:B2W2 Prerelease field.png|The player character meeting the rival
File:B2W2 Prerelease Akuroma.png|Akuroma...
File:B2W2 Prerelease Castelia Central Plaza.png|The player meets Akuroma in Castelia
File:B2W2 Prerelease floating town.png|The player meets Shizui
File:B2W2 Prerelease blocked road.png|The player and Akuroma in an unknown location
File:B2W2 Prerelease Roxie Gym.png|Homika's gym
File:B2W2 Prerelease beach town Gym.png|Possibly outside Shizui's gym
File:B2W2 Prerelease beach cave.png|The player character, the rival and Shizui in a beach, near to the entrance of a cave
</gallery>

--[[User:PenblooeR|PenblooeR]] 19:56, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
That depends.did you get these pictures from a reliable source? [[User:Pokabu218|Pokabu218]] 14:56, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

[http://www.pokemon.co.jp/ex/b2w2/characters/ I think so.] --[[User:PenblooeR|PenblooeR]] 15:50, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

It looks like the official Japanese black2 and white2 so I would say those pictures are valid but I'm not sure so I would ask help from another editor.

[http://www.pokemon.co.jp/ex/b2w2/characters/ They're from the japanese Pokémon website.] What do you think? --[[User:PenblooeR|PenblooeR]] 19:45, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
:I am probably late, but I think those pics are from the [http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/Pok%C3%A9mon_Wiki Pokemon Wiki's] article on b2w2. [[User:TeamPlasmaN1212|THIS COMMENT HAS NOT BEEN SIGNED]] 02:52, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
::Notice that PenblooeR provided his source: the official B2W2 website. If the Pokemon Wikia has them too, it is because they got them from the same source. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 04:06, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

== Starters ==

Are the starters for black and white 2 tepig oshawott and snivy because pokemon smash shows it.--[[User:Poke1|Poke1]] 01:59, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
:Obviously. [[Typhlosion (Pokémon)|★]][[User:Jo The Marten|Jo the Marten]][[Flygon (Pokémon)|★]] [[User_Talk:Jo The Marten|ಠ_ಠ]][[Cilan (anime)|♥]] 02:12, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

==battle animations?==

I guess constant battle animations are confirmed, due to the trailer? [[User:Pringles|Pringles]] 02:56, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
The Trainers seem to be animated too. ''Drakko'' 11:00, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

== English Cover ==

The english Cover is revealed: http://www.wog.ch/nas/cover_large/ds/ds_pokemonblack2.jpg --[[User:Altruis|Altruis]] 18:24, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
:Can you please provide the source of the picture? [[User:Pokemaster97|--Pokemaster]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|97]] 18:27, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Yes: http://www.wog.ch/index.cfm/details/product/28172-Pokemon-Schwarze-Edition-2 and http://www.softridge.ch/c1-/p4880/pokemon-schwarze-edition-2.html --[[User:Altruis|Altruis]] 18:29, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
:IMO it looks like placeholder boxart, because it doesn't match the Japanese artwork (which is usually does). There is also a watermark in the image. I would wait for a more official source to confirm it. [[User:Pokemaster97|--Pokemaster]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|97]] 18:40, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
I agree also because it is rating pending by ESRB but it shows a rating in the bottom right corner [[User:Pokabu218|Pokabu218]] 14:37, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
:That's not an ESRB rating. It's PEGI. --[[User:HoennMaster|Hoenn]][[User talk:HoennMaster|Master]] 16:13, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
Your right. I noticed that after I made the comment but did not have the time to fix it. [[User:Pokabu218|Pokabu218]] 17:44, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

== Unova Ice unconfirmed. ==

(Yeah, I know somebody already posted something like this...)
I don't think we should say that Unova is engulfed in ice, unless that is specifically confirmed. Maybe the ice is just there to cover up the other changes of Unova just for now, and I think if that much of Unova was covered in ice, there would only be like, three gyms. I think we should remove the part saying that part of Unova is covered in ice, because that is just speculation from the art, we have no proof that this is confirmed. [[User:Zarthga|Zarthga]] 07:23, 20 April 2012 (UTC)
:"I think if that much of Unova was covered in ice, there would only be like, three gyms." Castelia, Nimbasa, Driftveil, Mistralton and Opelucid aren't covered in ice. And there will be two new leaders, Shizui and Homika, totalizing seven citites with gyms that aren't covered in ice. Maybe the Icirrus gym will be still active, as it's an Ice-type gym... --[[User:PenblooeR|PenblooeR]] 15:50, 20 April 2012 (UTC)
::God, there are still people who believe that they really destroyed half of Unova? God... --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 17:39, 20 April 2012 (UTC)
:::"The Unova region ''appears'' to have changed greatly." (From the article; italics mine.) It does actually imply that it's inferred from the map, although I agree it's a little ambiguous. -- [[User:GoldenCelebi|Golden]][[User talk:GoldenCelebi|Celebi]] 17:50, 20 April 2012 (UTC)
::::Guys, this is turning into a speculation discussion. Unless you have undeniable proof one way or the other, please take this to the forums and stop the discussion here. [[Typhlosion (Pokémon)|★]][[User:Jo The Marten|Jo the Marten]][[Flygon (Pokémon)|★]] [[User_Talk:Jo The Marten|ಠ_ಠ]][[Cilan (anime)|♥]] 18:23, 20 April 2012 (UTC)
:::::Can I at least change it to say: "In this time, the Unova region appears to have changed greatly, being engulfed by a large amount of ice coming from the north east'', however, it was never confirmed that the this is true, as the ice may not actually exist, and was put on the Unova map to prevent too many spoilers.''" ? [[User:Zarthga|Zarthga]] 00:23, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
::::::No. [[Typhlosion (Pokémon)|★]][[User:Jo The Marten|Jo the Marten]][[Flygon (Pokémon)|★]] [[User_Talk:Jo The Marten|ಠ_ಠ]][[Cilan (anime)|♥]] 00:27, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
::::::: As it stands, the article reads as though Unova actually being engulfed in actual ice rather than just the map is a confirmed thing, which it isn't. Couldn't we reword that bit somehow so it doesn't sound like we know for sure? Actually, maybe it should just not be mentioned at all until we know what we're talking about. [[User:Yamiidenryuu|Yamiidenryuu]] 02:08, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
:::::::: ''In this time, the Unova region '''appears''' to have changed greatly, being engulfed by a large amount of ice coming from the north east'', the appears part signals the unconfirmed factor. The article is fine as is. [[User:Pokemaster97|--Pokemaster]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|97]] 02:13, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
It looks like it's confirmed: it says on the Japanese official site that the ice was caused two years after Black & White involving an 'accident' in the rural areas. ''Drakko'' 10:59, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
:It doesn't say it is actually covered in ice, simply that there was an accident in the rural areas. We will withhold adding that it is confirmed until we get undeniable proof either way. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 09:33, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
::The new trailer seems to indicate that the ''buildings'' are covered in ice, rather than the entire landmass being under a glacier like the art suggests. You may still be able to traverse the land, but I'm not sure if there will be people there [[User:NotSteve|'''Not''']][[User talk:NotSteve|''S'''''teve''' 0_o]] 16:41, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

== Pictures ==

Can this pic be used? {{unsigned|Poke1}}

<gallery>
File:B2W2 Prerelease rival opening.png|rival from opening.
</gallery>

:Have you got it from a reliable source? Also remember to sign your comment. [[User:Ace trainer R|Ace trainer R]] 09:34, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

== Characters and Pokedex additions? ==

1) Already been mentions on this page, [http://www.pokemon.co.jp/ex/b2w2/characters/ BW Characters]. Menu bar on left, if it wasn't obvious.

2) [http://www.pokemon.co.jp/ex/b2w2/pokemon/pokemon01.html Pokedex with additional Pokemon] (?) <s>the pokedex looks pretty epic</s>

These should be added to the page somewhere; it's from the Japanese webpage. EDIT: By that I mean more better description of these on the article

[[User:Umbreon126|Umbreon126]] 04:03, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

:Until everything is revealed, then we add it.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 04:10, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

== Spring 2012 ==

Australia are getting these games before Japan? An Admin needs to change this[[User:05308|Diamond]] [[Lanturn (Pokémon)|Lanturn]] [[User talk:05308|CodeName: 05308]]
:Spring in Northern Hemisphere = Autumn in Southern Hemisphere. This has been explained multiple times, and should be common knowledge. [[Typhlosion (Pokémon)|★]][[User:Jo The Marten|Jo the Marten]][[Flygon (Pokémon)|★]] [[User_Talk:Jo The Marten|ಠ_ಠ]][[Cilan (anime)|♥]] 19:33, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
::Yes it should be. I could care less either way, but it should be put up so we can stop getting these questions. --[[User:HoennMaster|Hoenn]][[User talk:HoennMaster|Master]] 19:55, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
:::Your message doesn't make sense. We don't need to put up any sort of notes and disclaimers because people should already know the season differences the hemispheres have. Do we need to explain why the sky is blue in the anime? Not only that, but it is rude to our readers in the Southern Hemisphere. We don't put any sort of disclaimers that Autumn in the Northern Hemisphere means their Spring. They already know the difference. I'm not going to alter the information just because of someone else's ignorance. [[Typhlosion (Pokémon)|★]][[User:Jo The Marten|Jo the Marten]][[Flygon (Pokémon)|★]] [[User_Talk:Jo The Marten|ಠ_ಠ]][[Cilan (anime)|♥]] 20:02, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
::::How does it not make sense. It should and is common knowledge, but multiple people obviously don't get the difference. It's a waste to continually have this page cluttered with this issue. This is the third time (IIRC) this question has been asked on this page, the forums see it multiple times as well. It's annoying to see this question asked numerous times every week. Putting something up would stop people from asking about this and stop all the useless posts on this. --[[User:HoennMaster|Hoenn]][[User talk:HoennMaster|Master]] 20:39, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
:::::<nowiki>*</nowiki>bobs his head out of the shadows* Hi, I'm from the far lands, also known as the Southern Hemisphere. Things in here, despite what they might seem like, are the opposite to the Northern Hemisphere (at least in the weather department, no, food doesn't eat people here -that's only in Rand McNally-). Stuff such as S. H. related articles and release dates for this side of the world are kept in the Southern Hemisphere standards so that we don't get confused as to when either things get released or... well... mostly dates, Australia and New Zealand amongst few others speak English, so it's a bit unfair for them. This is something you learn in elementary school, if they don't know it, tough luck, they do now. So yeah, we are not changing the seasons for them to fit the Northern Hemisphere standards. Besides, once the games are released, we'll see the actual dates, so there will be no place for confusion. [[User:Masatoshi|Masatoshi]][[User_talk:Masatoshi|''talk'']] 20:42, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
Here's a CRAZY thought I had... why not do something along the lines of "Qx 2012," or "Late 2012" instead of constantly arguing "common knowledge!"

The simple fact is, if it was common enough knowledge, people wouldn't be asking. Hell, at first even I was confused 'cause it's not the FIRST thing to come to a Northerner's mind. That's a simple fact. If you don't wanna offend southerners, that's fine - take discrimination out of it completely and change your date formats from seasons to quarters, or something similar. That's kinda the reason we have them, to standardize release dates for the whole world. Doing it by season is kinda amateurish if nothing else, and while it does work on TV and in localized adverts/news reports, for a world-wide information resource, we should use something more general that the entire world understands. [[User:LordSchmee|LordSchmee]] ([[User talk:LordSchmee|talk]]) 09:41, 17 June 2012 (UTC)
:We would put the quarter if we actually knew what it was. At present they've only announced "Spring 2012" for Australia and "Autumn 2012" for Europe and North America. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 09:46, 17 June 2012 (UTC)
::I can understand that, yeah, but... you can see the dilemma, right? Not many northerners will remember, or at least think of, the fact that it's Spring down there when it's Autumn up here. Even Late 2012 would be less confusing and stop people asking about it all the time. And it's a better place-holder anyway until the release date is properly announced, not just 'cause it's understandable by everyone, but 'cause it factors in early (late summer) or late (early winter) releases. [[User:LordSchmee|LordSchmee]] ([[User talk:LordSchmee|talk]]) 15:15, 17 June 2012 (UTC)
:::But they didn't say "Late 2012", they said "Spring 2012"/"Autumn 2012". We can only use what we've been given, and so far it has been given as seasons. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 15:22, 17 June 2012 (UTC)
::::They gave you those dates because the dates are (and that news is) SPECIFIC to that region. However, this website is not specific to anyone - it's available to everyone, all around the world. All you need to do is convert it. Autumn (from my perspective) is still late 2012. It's not like it's changing anything, just wording it a different way. Like saying "talk to you this evening" is the same as saying "see you later." 'cept it's better for everyone to understand, 'cause what's evening for me could be afternoon for you. Do you see my point? Bulbapedia is a hub of information for fans of Pokemon worldwide, and it caters to each of its readers. So it should use more universal measures of time, that means converting things. It's not difficult, nor is it less correct, but the fans overall will appreciate it. [[User:LordSchmee|LordSchmee]] ([[User talk:LordSchmee|talk]]) 15:50, 17 June 2012 (UTC)
:::::But Spring is not the same thing as Late. And release dates are always given according to the timezone; even if the games came out on the same date worldwide, from a US perspective Australia and Japan would get the games the day before the US release date. Regardless, we ''cannot'' approximate dates based on the information given; we can only use the information we're given. Late is an extremely ambiguous term anyway; I could interpret that as any post-June date, or any post-October date, both of which are not Spring. Late also implies the possibility of a December release, while Spring means that it cannot be December. Autumn/Spring 2012 does fall into "Late 2012" in some interpretations, but it is a subset of it and therefore saying Late 2012 is inaccurate. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 14:44, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

== Helpful-ish ==

On {{tt|the pages|*can't be bothered to link to them*}} that Umbreon126 noted a couple of sections above, it says something about the 3DS in the bottom right. Not being able to read Japanese, I don't know what it says, but it ''could'' be helpful. Maybe. -- [[User:GoldenCelebi|Golden]][[User talk:GoldenCelebi|Celebi]] 16:04, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
:It just means that the game is compatible with the 3DS. [[Typhlosion (Pokémon)|★]][[User:Jo The Marten|Jo the Marten]][[Flygon (Pokémon)|★]] [[User_Talk:Jo The Marten|ಠ_ಠ]][[Cilan (anime)|♥]] 16:12, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

== Forest Minccino ==

At about 1:01 in the trailer, the player approaches what seems to be a Minccino in a forest. I don't have Black or White, so I don't know if this is like [[Peeko]] or not. Can somebody help me with this? [[User:Pringles|プリングルズ/品客薯片/ప్రింగిల్స్]] 20:09, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
:That event wasn't in the first BW at all, so we have no idea if it's like Peeko or what. [[User:Yamiidenryuu|Yamiidenryuu]] 14:18, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

==New Kami trio formes?==

Allegedly, this is the cover of next month's CoroCoro: [http://pokejungle.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/20120511-143126.jpg]

Note the bottom left ;)

[[User:Luigi-San|Luigi-San]] 05:41, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
:We are aware of that scan but it can easily be fake and it has been done a lot of times in the past as well. Besides, there is still some time in the ''actual'' CoroCoro scans to arrive. That is why the optimum choice would be to wait. Also, please do not link to other fansites since they are "not" completely reliable. Thank you, have a nice day ahead. ♫♪ [[User:Adyniz|'''エイデ''']][[User talk:Adyniz|'''ィニズ''']] ♪♫ 06:21, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

== English Release Date ==

On Amazon it says that the release date is December 31, 2012... Should someone add it? Or is it fake? [[User:Pringles|プリングルズ/品客薯片/ప్రింగిల్స్]] 00:28, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
:I'm thinking that is most likely a place holder date so they can accept pre-orders and such. [[User:Pokemaster97|--Pokemaster]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|97]] 00:38, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
::Definitely a placeholder. GameStop stores around me have October 2. --[[User:The Great Butler|The Great Butler]] 00:48, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

== Starters ==

Nope, there's no new starters. They're the same as Black and White, according to a Nintendo website. {{unsigned|AWild------Appeared}}
:[[Talk:Pokémon Black and White Versions 2#Starters|We know.]] -- [[User:GoldenCelebi|Golden]][[User talk:GoldenCelebi|Celebi]] 16:25, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

== New info - please update ==

As seen [http://www.pokemon.com/us/pokemon-video-games/pokemon-black-version-2-and-pokemon-white-version-2/ here] AR Searcher will be released as Pokémon Dream Radar. When Black Kyurem and White Kyurem have the cool glowing lights, it is known as "Overdrive Mode" --[[User:Dorsal Axe|Dorsal Axe]] 14:22, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
:By cool glowing lights do you mean the tube-like things that attach from their tails to their torsos? -[[User:NotSteve|'''Not''']][[User talk:NotSteve|''S'''''teve''' 0_o]] 16:57, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

== English Boxart ==

Here are the US boxarts for Pokémon Black 2 and White 2. It isn't the greatest quality, but I couldn't find better. [[User:Z1ggyZ00|Z1ggyZ00]] 21:38, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

[[File:White 2 EN boxart.png|200px]]
[[File:Black 2 EN boxart.png|200px]]

I've found some '''much''' bigger versions, which can be seen [http://i.imgur.com/KSbC3.jpg here] and [http://i.imgur.com/gooUp.jpg here]. But they'll need to be cropped before they can be used in the article. --[[User:Dorsal Axe|Dorsal Axe]] 10:07, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

== Minor thing ==

The word "mode" in Overdrive Mode should be capitalised. [http://www.pokemon.com/us/pokemon-video-games/pokemon-black-version-2-and-pokemon-white-version-2/ Proof is in the character art gallery here.] - [[User:Blazios|Blazios]] [[User Talk:Blazios|talk]] 22:22, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

== More Formes? WTF Bianca? ==

Well according to Serebii, there are new "Sacred Beast Formes" for Tornadus, Thunderus, and Landorus, Also with the new Pokemon Black 2 and White 2 animation out, it seems Bianca gives out the Starters in B2W2 and that Cheren is the first Gym Leader. {{unsigned|Alsuke}}
:1. Serebii isn't an official source, so don't bother referencing it here. 2. That name is merely a fan translation. Not official. 3. We already know everything else you just said. Check their articles. [[Typhlosion (Pokémon)|★]][[User:Jo The Marten|Jo the Marten]][[Flygon (Pokémon)|★]] [[User_Talk:Jo The Marten|ಠ_ಠ]][[Cilan (anime)|♥]] 04:04, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
Where did Overdrive Mode go? [[User:TeamPlasmaN1212|THIS COMMENT HAS NOT BEEN SIGNED]] 02:54, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

== World Tournament Info ==

Just think it might be better to revise the current blurb on the World Tournament since it seems like more will be available. At present Sabrina isn't confirmed to be challengable, and the inclusion of Volkner, Lance, Cynthia and Steven opens it up to more regions. Maybe it's just better to say Gym Leaders and other Trainers/Champions from the other regions.
[[User:Clark Griswald|Clark Griswald]] 17:45, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

== Name to: Pokémon Black 2 and White 2 Versions ==

I think that would be a more accurate name, as the versions are more commonly (from what I've seen) referred to as Black 2 and White 2, not Black and White 2. Wikipedia too have referred to the games as Black 2 and White 2.
I propose a name change, anyone else agree? [[User:Kookamooka|Kookamooka]] 18:56, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
:[http://www.pokemon.com/us/pokemon-video-games/pokemon-black-version-2-and-pokemon-white-version-2/ The word Version comes before the 2.] This is an official link and it's really all that matters. Besides, Black 2 and White 2 already redirect here. - [[User:Blazios|Blazios]] [[User Talk:Blazios|talk]] 19:04, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
::Ah okay. Although they didn't redirect here, I got that covered. [[User:Kookamooka|Kookamooka]] 19:15, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

== Mistakes ==

"In this time, the Unova region appears to have changed greatly. The northeast and a small area of the far west are covered on the map, and it is not yet confirmed if the ice is simply covering changes that will be revealed later or if it is actually present in the region."

You managed to forgot to specify that they are ''covered in ice'', leaving that minor detail totally unsaid until the next part of the sentence, where it makes no sense.

Along with that... "Southwest" is all one word. The article switches from future tense (the games will) to present (the Pokédex is) to future again. If you're going to protect an article then write a good one. [[User:LordArceus|'''Lord''']][[User talk:LordArceus|'''Arc''']][[Special:Contributions/LordArceus|'''eus''']] 23:51, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
:I see your point, but that snippy last part you added was not necessary and a bit rude. We'll fix the article as soon as possible. [[User:Pokemaster97|--Pokemaster]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|97]] 23:56, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

== The ice might be... well, ice. ==

Has anyone taken a look at this video? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2SA4GyXb2U Near the end (around 3:25, when the protagonist is chasing the Shadow Triad), an entire city is encased in ice. It seems very likely that the ice on the map... is actually ice. Thoughts? [[User:Rickie-d|Rickie-d]] 17:41, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
:Yes, we are fully aware of this. But, it's just a trailer, and information is still very limited. For all we know, it could be unrelated to the ice on the map. So, until then, we'll just have to wait. [[User:Ataro|Ataro]] 17:46, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
::I'm pretty sure that the ice on the map doesn't entirely correspond to the actual ice. For all we know, there are changes behind the ice (not to mention that Shizui's Town and World Tournament also have to be located somewhere there). --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 18:32, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

== Gallery ==

Shouldn't you put the new pics for the starters in the gallery? I mean, it's new art, and we have the new Unova map. [[User:Pringles|''プリングルズ/'']][[User talk:Pringles|品客薯片/ప్రింగిల్స్]] 17:58, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

:And the new Kami trio formes, not to mention. And perhaps {{p|Meloetta}} (both formes) and {{p|Keldeo}}, due to them making their first official game appearances.[[User:Luigi-San|Luigi-San]] 22:32, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
::Personally, I feel the gallery is big enough as it is. I think rather than adding images to the gallery, we should be adding actual text. Because the gallery's pretty much going to be taken off once we can actually put content on the article anyway. Iirc, none of the other game articles have galleries. [[Typhlosion (Pokémon)|★]][[User:Jo The Marten|Jo the Marten]][[Flygon (Pokémon)|★]] [[User_Talk:Jo The Marten|ಠ_ಠ]][[Cilan (anime)|♥]] 22:42, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
:::K, thanks. [[User:Pringles|''プリングルズ/'']][[User talk:Pringles|品客薯片/ప్రింగిల్స్]] 00:04, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
::::Perhaps move the images to their own page? Something like {{redlink|Pokémon Black and White Versions 2/Gallery}}. [[User:Luigi-San|Luigi-San]] 21:29, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
:::::Or their own articles. Which they are. Please don't just create a link like that. It puts a page on the wanted pages list, when we don't really need that page. [[Typhlosion (Pokémon)|★]][[User:Jo The Marten|Jo the Marten]][[Flygon (Pokémon)|★]] [[User_Talk:Jo The Marten|ಠ_ಠ]][[Cilan (anime)|♥]] 21:44, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
::::::Honestly, I think only actual screenshots from the game should go in there. Artworks are not really in the game, so don't belong there. See what we did for [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Pok%C3%A9mon_Black_and_White_Versions&oldid=1194332#Images BW] and [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Pok%C3%A9mon_HeartGold_and_SoulSilver_Versions&oldid=1684773#Gallery HGSS]. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 11:38, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

== Tyop ==

I can't edit this because of the article protections, but you've put "fulling" instead of "fully" in the section about sprite animations. [[User:Yamiidenryuu|Yamiidenryuu]] 03:07, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
:Whoop. Thanks for pointing that out. [[Typhlosion (Pokémon)|★]][[User:Jo The Marten|Jo the Marten]][[Flygon (Pokémon)|★]] [[User_Talk:Jo The Marten|ಠ_ಠ]][[Cilan (anime)|♥]] 03:28, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

== Someone fix... ==

"Pokémon Dream Searcher app" in the opening of the article should be changed to "Pokémon Dream Radar". [[User:PkmnChmp5|PkmnChmp5]] 16:06, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
:And linked, too - I think there's an article for it now. -- [[User:GoldenCelebi|Golden]][[User talk:GoldenCelebi|Celebi]] 16:12, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
::I felt that since it's got its own section on the article, then it didn't need to be mentioned at the top. I also moved a few other things down to their own sections. [[Typhlosion (Pokémon)|★]][[User:Jo The Marten|Jo the Marten]][[Flygon (Pokémon)|★]] [[User_Talk:Jo The Marten|ಠ_ಠ]][[Cilan (anime)|♥]] 16:45, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

== Combatibility? ==

Normally I wouldn't say something about a protected article having a spelling error, but this happens to be the title of a subsection... would somebody kindly change Com'''b'''atibility to Com'''p'''atibility? '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 17:02, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
:Done. Thanks for pointing it out. [[User:Pokemaster97|--Pokemaster]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|97]] 17:09, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
::Thank you, kind sir. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 17:11, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
:::If the article's protected, feel free to point out any errors on the talk page. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 11:19, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

== Names ==

Can someone with edit access please pipe Black2, White2, and the ridiculous fan name for the rival? They aren't official names, so why are we not listing them on the page as "[[Black2|boy]]", "[[White2|girl]]", and "[[Hihihiroshi|rival]]"? [[User:Rickie-d|Rickie-d]] 07:28, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
:No. We're calling them as such because they're the closest we have to actual names for those characters. Hihihiroshi isn't just a fan name, it was a name given to him during a game play demonstration on Pokemon Smash. [[User:Ataro|Ataro]] 07:35, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
::To be fair, I think we should pipe Hihihiroshi, as it is not an official name at all and just the nickname chosen for him by Pokémon Smash in their game. However, Black2 and White2 are official. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 12:05, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

== Musicals ==

At the moment, it says that the Pokewood replaces Musicals. This is unconfirmed, and we have no reason to believe Musicals aren't in the game now (especially since the hall is visible on the map). This error must be fixed. {{unsigned|Grei}}
:Fixed. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 07:55, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

== Australian release date ==
It is said that the two games will be out on 31 December, 2012. Source: [https://www.jbhifionline.com.au/game/nintendo-ds/pokemon-black-version-2/665515][https://www.jbhifionline.com.au/game/nintendo-ds/pokemon-white-version-2/665514] --[[User:Chickensdoorknob|ℂℏɨ₡ƙ℮ᵰᵴ∂ⱺ☮яϰŊøɓ]] ([[User talk:Chickensdoorknob|talk]]) 06:25, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
:Retailers tend to approximate release dates for preorders. What seems to have happened here is that they know it will be out this year, so they've said the absolute latest possible date. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 06:34, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

==Gym Leaders Update==
Due to the recent confirmation of all eight Gym Leaders in Pokémon Black 2 and White 2, I think it is appropriate to update the page accordingly. The Gym Leaders' order is unknown, yet Cheren, Drayden, Clay, Burgh, Elesa, Skyla, Shizui and Homika are confirmed as Gym Leaders (see article http://bulbanews.bulbagarden.net/wiki/B2W2_Gym_Leaders_confirmed).[[User:Squirrelfeet|Squirrelfeet]] ([[User talk:Squirrelfeet|talk]]) 08:05, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

==World Championship==
I just noticed this, but it says players can battle every gym leader/champion. Could you provide the source for that please? Every other site I've found seems to be under the impression that only the Kanto Gym Leaders and certain champions have been revealed. I know it's likely the others are gonna be there, but it's not exactly, as you like to put it, "officially confirmed." [[User:LordSchmee|LordSchmee]] ([[User talk:LordSchmee|talk]]) 16:49, 17 June 2012 (UTC)
:Guess no one has a source? :S [[User:LordSchmee|LordSchmee]] ([[User talk:LordSchmee|talk]]) 18:09, 17 June 2012 (UTC)
::[[:a:File:CoroCoro June 2012 3.jpg|This is the page we got the information from.]] [[Typhlosion (Pokémon)|★]][[User:Jo The Marten|Jo the Marten]][[Flygon (Pokémon)|★]] [[User_Talk:Jo The Marten|ಠ_ಠ]][[Cilan (anime)|♥]] 18:10, 17 June 2012 (UTC)
:::Yeah, that's the page everyone else's used, too. Just wondering where the information split occurred. :S [[User:LordSchmee|LordSchmee]] ([[User talk:LordSchmee|talk]]) 18:20, 17 June 2012 (UTC)
::::Different translations, I guess. [[Typhlosion (Pokémon)|★]][[User:Jo The Marten|Jo the Marten]][[Flygon (Pokémon)|★]] [[User_Talk:Jo The Marten|ಠ_ಠ]][[Cilan (anime)|♥]] 18:21, 17 June 2012 (UTC)
:::::Other sites saying that only Kanto Gym Leaders and all Champions have been confirmed are saying that because that's all we've seen so far. However, on that scan linked earlier, in the top right corner it says "All Gym Leaders and Champions that have appeared in the main series (Pocket Monsters series) will participate!"). --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 14:44, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

== Gym Order Confirmed ==

Well, with all those Dengeki magazine scans, the gym order has been confirmed. It is Cheren (Basic), Homika (Toxic), Burgh (Insect), Elesa (Bolt), Clay (Quake), Skyla (Jet), Drayden (Legend), and Shizui (???). Shizui's gym is unconfirmed, although there is a picture of the badge. The rest is confirmed. --'''[[User:Trickyb|Tricky]][[User Talk:Trickyb|B]] 20:19, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

==ESRB Rating==

OK, so I was on Nintendo's official website, and they said the games are both rated E for Everyone.--[[User:KyuremEX22|KyuremEX22]] ([[User talk:KyuremEX22|talk]]) 00:47, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

== Version Exclusive Pokémon ==

Aren't there more version exclusive Pokémon than the ones listed, such as the Weedle Line in Black 2 and Caterpie Line in White 2? That's what I've been reading, but don't want to edit it in just in case that's not actually the case! [[User:Torpoleon|Torpoleon]] ([[User talk:Torpoleon|talk]]) 11:57, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
:Weedle in Black 2 and Caterpie in White 2? Where you even got that idea? [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] ([[User talk:Marked +-+-+|talk]]) 12:26, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
::Read it on Serebii. I didn't think it was right anyways, so that's why I didn't add it to the version exclusives here. [[User:Torpoleon|Torpoleon]] ([[User talk:Torpoleon|talk]]) 13:01, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

== Challenge Mode & Assist Mode ==

Got another question. Since Challenge Mode highers all trainers' Pokémon levels, wouldn't it be easier to list the levels on normal mode and after listing all of them, list all Challenge Mode Levels after it. It might be easier than just going Normal Mode, Challenge Mode, Normal Mode, Challenge Mode, etc. Also, Assist Mode lowers levels, so there's that too. [[User:Torpoleon|Torpoleon]] ([[User talk:Torpoleon|talk]]) 16:19, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
:Challenge mode doesn't simply raise levels. In Gym Leaders' cases, it changes entire line-ups, by adding an extra pokémon and the static pokémon's move sets can change, too. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * the [[User talk:ArcToraphim|Arc]] [[Special:Contributions/ArcToraphim|Toraph]] 16:24, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
:About Assist Mode. That's rather not a good idea, as these levels might make Pokémon movesets illegal or something (not that likely but still possible), so they might change. [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] ([[User talk:Marked +-+-+|talk]]) 18:24, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
::OK, but I was asking if we should list all Normal mode teams (perhaps teams is a better word than levels), then Assist mode and then Challenge mode instead of going Normal, Challenge, Normal, Challenge, etc. It would probably make things easier to read. [[User:Torpoleon|Torpoleon]] ([[User talk:Torpoleon|talk]]) 22:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
Does Challenge and assist modes have any relation to the world tournament--[[User:Glalie Power|Glalie Power]] ([[User talk:Glalie Power|talk]]) 22:49, 13 July 2012 (UTC)
:I don't think so. I think they might only affect everything except the Battle Subway, World Tournament, or things like that. [[User:Torpoleon|Torpoleon]] ([[User talk:Torpoleon|talk]]) 17:49, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

Can someone explain to me how Challenge Mode and Assist Mode are even accessible?[[User:Schiffy|Schiffy]] ([[User talk:Schiffy|talk]]) 01:29, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

==Missing Pokémon==
Is there any Pokémon that were part of Black and White that cannot be found in these games that should be added to this page? -[[User:Tyler53841|Tyler53841]] ([[User talk:Tyler53841|talk]]) 06:24, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
:So far the only Pokémon I know about that you can't catch in neither version, but are available in first games - [[Kami trio]] (tao trio is not counted as you can get one in one version and another in other version, Kyurem is available in both). [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] ([[User talk:Marked +-+-+|talk]]) 09:39, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
==Storyline Changes==
I kinda feel like Storyline Changes doesn't need to be on this page. While it makes sense for games like Platinum, Black 2 and White 2 are sequels, and thus completely different games, and would have a different storyline by virtue of being completely different games. --[[User:Funktastic~!|It's Funktastic~!]] ([[User talk:Funktastic~!|talk]]) 20:26, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

== Boxart with ESRB Rating ==

Shouldn't someone upload the US boxart with the ESRB rating? Nintendo has released that boxart now. We still have it with RP. I tried uploading it, but it wouldn't work. Can someone who is more experienced upload the Black 2 & White 2 US boxarts with the ESRB ratings? Thanks! [[User:Torpoleon|Torpoleon]] ([[User talk:Torpoleon|talk]]) 17:56, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

== Version-exclusive ==

Latios and Registeel are Black 2 only, and Latias and Regice are White 2 only. Can somebody add that?[[User:TeamPlasmaN1212|TeamPlasmaN1212]] ([[User talk:TeamPlasmaN1212|talk]]) 00:39, 22 July 2012 (UTC)[[User:TeamPlasmaN1212]]
:Latios & Latias were already added. The reason Registeel & Regice aren't there is probably because you can trade the keys to the opposite game. [[User:Torpoleon|Torpoleon]] ([[User talk:Torpoleon|talk]]) 00:53, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

== Medal Box? ==

After playing through most of this game, I still haven't understood the point of the medals that you receive in the Pokemon Center. All I know is this weird looking guy forced a box into my hands and gives me random awards for doing things throughout the course of the game. Is something supposed to happen after you collect a certain amount? More importantly, how many medals are there, and why is there no page for it? [[User:Schiffy|Schiffy]] ([[User talk:Schiffy|talk]]) 04:35, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
:You rank up with the number of medals you get. I know there are at least 200 medals, and Serebii has a list with all the info. -- [[User:Pringles|Pringles]] 22:28, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

== Classification ==

Could this be counted as the second paired version of Geberation V (like FRLG AND HGSS), or are they doing something special, and counting them both as third versions, like Blue and Yellow, and then making RS remakes? [[User:Iml908|Iml908]] ([[User talk:Iml908|talk]]) 00:39, 4 August 2012 (UTC)
:I think these are just the third versions. It's hard to say. [[Typhlosion (Pokémon)|★]][[User:Jo The Marten|Jo the Marten]][[Flygon (Pokémon)|★]] [[User_Talk:Jo The Marten|ಠ_ಠ]][[Cilan (anime)|♥]] 00:41, 4 August 2012 (UTC)
::I think these should be classified as something new entirely. Because third versions usually just have a slightly modified plot when compared to the first games, and second paired versions usually have no relation to the previous games of that generation. B2W2 should be classified as "sequels", Gen V has completely re-written the formula. [[User:PkmnChmp5|PkmnChmp5]] ([[User talk:PkmnChmp5|talk]]) 03:42, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

== Story ==

I think we need a full storyline for B2W2. --The [[User:TeamPlasmaN1212|Plasma]] [[User talk:TeamPlasmaN1212|King]] 19:01, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
:We could merge 'Storyline changes' and 'Plot' together. That would come pretty close to a full storyline. -- [[User:GoldenCelebi|Golden]][[User talk:GoldenCelebi|Celebi]] 19:35, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

== Gallery - In English ==

I think we need to replace the images from the gallery with the new ones from the English versions of the games. What do you think?? I'm sorry for not showing you the images here because I don't know how to upload them but I put up the links here. Source: Pokemon.com/BlackWhite2 [[User:PKMNFan21597|PKMNFan21597]] ([[User talk:PKMNFan21597|talk]]) 07:50, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

[http://www.pokemonblackwhite.com/pokemon-black-and-white-2/assets/en-us/characters/V1_EN_P03_02.jpg Kyouhei VS Hugh] 
[http://www.pokemonblackwhite.com/pokemon-black-and-white-2/assets/en-us/characters/V1_EN_P06_03.jpg With Marlon] 
[http://www.pokemonblackwhite.com/pokemon-black-and-white-2/assets/en-us/characters/V3_EN_P05_01.jpg Colress]

:Sadly, the images you've linked to are in {{tt|JPEG|Joint Photographic Experts Group}} format, while the current ones are {{tt|PNG|Portable Network Graphics}}, so they can't replace the current ones easily unless converted to PNG. (There are lots of JPEG to PNG converters on the internet - [http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&q=jpeg+to+png+converter a quick Google search] gets 'about 28,200,000 results'.) By the way, you can upload new versions of the images by going to the files' pages on the archives - the pages you're looking for are {{img|B2W2 Prerelease VS Rival.png|Kyouhei VS Hugh}} and {{img|B2W2 Prerelease beach town Gym.png|With Marlon}}, don't know about the Colress one - and clicking on 'Upload a new version of this file'. - ''signed comment from [[User:GoldenCelebi|GoldenCelebi]] ([[User talk:GoldenCelebi|pedia talk]] • [[Bulbanews:User talk:GoldenCelebi|news talk]] • [[a:User talk:GoldenCelebi|archives talk]])'' ''11:17, 3 September 2012 (UTC)''

::I can't seem to find the 'Upload a new version of this file' link on the archive. I even have new images for ''PokéStar Studios'', ''World Tournament'', ''Join Avenue'', New ''Nimbasa Gym'', ''Memory Link'', and ''Marine Tube'' but they are all in JPG. Please give me some help... I'm new and don't know what to do to help. And the Colress image was taken from the Plasma Frigate. --[[User:PKMNFan21597|PKMNFan21597]] ([[User talk:PKMNFan21597|talk]]) 16:35, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

:::The existing images are in PNG so need to be replaced by other PNGs; the JPG-to-PNG converter I use is [http://www.pictureresize.org/online-images-converter.html this one]; all you need to do is upload your JPG file, select 'PNG - Portable Network Graphics' from the 'Convervt to' ''[sic]'' box and click on the big shiny 'Convert Now' button. Then you can download the PNG files and upload it by going to the image you need to replace on the archives and choosing 'Upload a new version of this file'.
:::To find the 'Upload a new version of this file' link, first click on the image you want to replace, such as one of the ones in the gallery in this article. I'll use this one as an example:
<gallery>
File:B2W2_Prerelease_VS_Rival.png‎|Versus Hugh
</gallery>
:::Clicking on that takes you to [[a:File:B2W2 Prerelease VS Rival.png|this page]].
:::Once you've clicked on the image, find the green outlined box (you might need to scroll down) that starts 'This file is from Bulbagarden Archives'. Click on the bolded text 'description page'. For this image, the link will take you {{img|B2W2 Prerelease VS Rival.png|here}}. The 'Upload a new version of this file' should be near the end of the 'File history' section.
:::If the only link there is 'Edit this file using an external application', you might not be logged in on the archives; the login button is in the top-right corner and your login details should be the same as on Bulbapedia.
:::The form that appears after clicking 'Upload a new version of this file' is explained [http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/6/68/BulbaArchives_Howto.png here]. - ''signed comment from [[User:GoldenCelebi|GoldenCelebi]] ([[User talk:GoldenCelebi|pedia talk]] • [[Bulbanews:User talk:GoldenCelebi|news talk]] • [[a:User talk:GoldenCelebi|archives talk]])'' ''18:59, 12 September 2012 (UTC)''
::::It should be mentioned that those images shouldn't be uploaded over the current images, because the current images are early screenshots. Those images should not have any new versions uploaded over them since images released outside of Japan use the final version cartridges that were released. If those images should be uploaded, they would have to uploaded as new images. '''[[User:Lady Ariel|Lady]] [[User talk:Lady Ariel|Ariel]]''' 23:17, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
:::::Then it's simpler... just go [[a:Special:Upload|here]] and follow [http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/6/68/BulbaArchives_Howto.png these instructions]. I don't think they even need to be converted to PNG, unless there's some policy about file-types. - ''signed comment from [[User:GoldenCelebi|GoldenCelebi]] ([[User talk:GoldenCelebi|pedia talk]] • [[Bulbanews:User talk:GoldenCelebi|news talk]] • [[a:User talk:GoldenCelebi|archives talk]])'' ''16:32, 14 September 2012 (UTC)''

== Tall grass ==

I am sure that in-battle (and outside of battle) grass is slightly different depending on the season. Was that in first games (the outside of battle likely, the inside of battle I don't think). [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] ([[User talk:Marked +-+-+|talk]]) 16:12, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

== Any new Pokémon? ==

Except for the new Kyurems, are there going to be any more Pokémon introduced? - [[User Talk:AWild------Appeared|'''A Wild (?) Appeared''' ]] 18:37, 15 September 2012 (UTC)
:The game has been out for two months. There are no new Pokemon in the game and there most likely won't be any until generation 6. [[User:Ataro|Ataro]] ([[User talk:Ataro|talk]]) 18:45, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

== Move to Black 2 and White 2 ==

I think we should move this page to Pokémon Black 2 and White 2 Versions, as Black 2 and White 2 are the official names, and Black and White Versions 2 just don't look write. [[User:Iml908|Iml908]] ([[User talk:Iml908|talk]]) 21:49, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
:[http://www.pokemonblackwhite.com/pokemon-black-and-white-2/#en-us/home No, they are not.] - [[User:Blazios|Blazios]] [[User Talk:Blazios|talk]] 21:53, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
::More accurately, the name "Pokémon Black and White Versions 2" was used on Pokemon.com when the games were first revealed. [[Typhlosion (Pokémon)|★]][[User:Jo The Marten|Jo the Marten]][[Flygon (Pokémon)|★]] [[User_Talk:Jo The Marten|ಠ_ಠ]][[Cilan (anime)|♥]] 22:25, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

== Aesthetic Changes ==

"Challenger's Cave's entrance collapsed while Route 10 was locked off due to landslide on Victory Road, making both areas inaccessible. In place of Cold Storage there is now the Pokémon World Tournament."
shouldn't the part about Cold Storage be its own bullet point? [[User:Twilight-kun|Twilight-kun]] ([[User talk:Twilight-kun|talk]]) 12:46, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
:You're right. It should be like that. I'll change it. - [[User:Clubchloe1|'''Club''']][[User talk:Clubchloe1|'''chloe1''']] 23:28, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

== Gallery ==

Shouldn't it be removed now? --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 21:08, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

== Inventory changes ==

Items are now added to the bottom of the list in the player's bag, and TMs and HMs aren't automatically sorted in number order (they also get added to the bottom of the list when you find them). There's also a "Free Space" section of the bag where you can send items that you use often so that you can locate them more quickly. I didn't see this added to "gameplay changes", or has it been added somewhere else? [[User:Dimenticare|Dimenticare]] ([[User talk:Dimenticare|talk]]) 23:29, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

== Rename Storyline changes ==

I think the section "Storyline ''changes''" should be renamed to something that sounds more sequel-like, since these games are sequels. The term "changes" makes it sound like B2W2 are just ordinary third versions of BW, when they are not. Maybe something along with "Storyline additions", "Expanded storyline" or something, anyone got any other ideas? [[User:Angela-Samshi|Angela-Samshi]] ([[User talk:Angela-Samshi|talk]]) 21:00, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

I agree. We shouldn't use the term "changes" for this matter. I personally like "Storyline Additions", so maybe we could use that. If not, I'm thinking about using "Storyline Inclusions." What do you think? [[User:Uncle Edit|Uncle Edit]] ([[User talk:Uncle Edit|talk]]) 18:53, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

== Unova Pokémon not available in either game. ==

So I have been wondering what Unova Pokémon don't appear either of those two games. I did a bit of google search and found nothing about it.

I did look at a couple of pages of Unova Pokémon and still am unsure what Unova Pokémon don't appear in this game. It would be nice if this article had information about what Unova Pokémon are not available in this game by any means. And I'm sure there are some.

Trust me, I think the article would be better with that information. [[User:TheBlazikenMaster|TheBlazikenMaster]] ([[User talk:TheBlazikenMaster|talk]]) 03:23, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
:Furthermore I do believe that there are some Unova Pokémon not appearing in the game. (It happened to Crystal, Emerald and Platinum. Which are the third game of each game of the main series, and that's kinda like how those two games are sequels.) However, I'm not sure.

:I would gladly do the research myself, which I did, but so far I didn't find Unova Pokémon not available in the games, but I still have this feeling there are some. [[User:TheBlazikenMaster|TheBlazikenMaster]] ([[User talk:TheBlazikenMaster|talk]]) 03:30, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
::Your answer: the [[kami trio]]. Nothing more, nothing less. Those are the only Pokémon available in-game in Black or White that are not available in Black 2 or White 2. Just a quick skim through our [[List of Pokémon by availability]] shows that to be true. --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 07:01, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
:::Also, this article has this information. "''The Kami Trio are notably the only Unova regional Pokémon absent from either game and must be obtained through the Pokémon Dream Radar and then transferred or alternatively they can be traded from Black and White. The Dream Radar is also necessary to obtain their new forms.''" [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] ([[User talk:Marked +-+-+|talk]]) 10:13, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

== Battle Competiition? ==

As we don't have an article on it, I am wondering what it is. All other options on the boot menu I understand, all except this. What is it? --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 03:32, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

This option allows players to participate in Pokemon battle tournaments, whether they are wi-fi or at an event. If there's a battle event article, I think 'Battle Competition' should be mentioned somewhere. [[User:Uncle Edit|Uncle Edit]] ([[User talk:Uncle Edit|talk]]) 18:47, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

== Game manual blurb ==

I have it with me, but I have no idea what it is referring to. It is referring to the instruction manual packaged with the game, right? --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 04:37, 11 December 2012 (UTC)
:It's from the back of the game box itself, not the manual. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 06:37, 11 December 2012 (UTC)
::No, no, see [[Pokémon Black and White Versions#Game manual blurb|this]]. Where is it from? The instruction manual? Is it in the B2W2 manual? --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 00:59, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

== Walkthrough link? ==

Shouldn't we add the link to the walkthrough? Most of the game articles have the link.[[User:Auraguardian197|'''Auraguardian''']][[User talk:Auraguardian197|'''197''']] 19:15, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

== sequel right? ==

this entire game takes place 2 years later with a different player character? or it includes white or black the way platinum did with diamond pearl?

I think the former but parts of the article seem to imply the latter(namely the "changes" section)~~ {{unsigned|Icleario}}
:Yes to your first question. You second question confuses me; Platinum did not "include" Diamond or Pearl, and Black 2 and White 2 do not include Black and White. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 07:42, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
:Some of the "changes" sections are valid ("aesthetic changes" especially), but I think having a "storyline changes" section is, as Icleario points out, misleading. B2W2 are a completely new story, unlike Yellow, Crystal, Emerald and Platinum, which merely adapted their respective generations' main pair of versions to fit a different box mascot. I think that's what he means by "including" Diamond and Pearl. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 16:33, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

== 3DS features? ==

What are the 3DS-enhanced features? The article doesn't bother explaining. - [[User:Ericss|Ericss]] ([[User talk:Ericss|talk]]) 23:30, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

Rematch

2014-05-04T18:04:07Z

Ericss:

A '''rematch''' or '''re-battle''' is a second or subsequent battle against a {{pkmn|Trainer}} or {{OBP|Pokémon|species}}.

In the main series games, it is mandatory for the {{player}} to defeat certain Trainers to advance within the game. Technically, if the player is defeated, they are given the chance to battle this opponent again until defeated (except in exceptional circumstances), but this isn't considered a rematch.

Most of the time, however, if a Trainer is defeated, that Trainer will not be available for a rematch until certain conditions have been met. When Trainers usually agree to rematch, their Pokémon will have become stronger (level up or evolution), or they would already have acquired more Pokémon (sometimes from another region, once the player has obtained the [[National Pokédex]]).

==Types of rematch==
[[File:Route 22 Rival battle RBY.png|thumb|right|Encountering the Rival on {{rt|22|Kanto}}]]
===Elite Four and Champion===
In the early [[Generation I]] games, only the [[Elite Four]] and {{pkmn|Champion}}/[[Rival]] were able to be re-battled. {{game|FireRed and LeafGreen|s}} introduced the concept of having the Elite Four and Champion's rematch teams at higher levels, with different Pokémon and movesets.

===Rival===
Since Generation I, the player's [[Rival]] plays a key role within the game, occasionally giving hints, helping out or even challenging the player to a rematch. With the exception of {{ga|Brendan}} and {{ga|May}} in Generation III, the player's rival can be repeatedly rematched after defeating the Elite Four of that region.

The following table shows where and when the player's Rival can be challenged for subsequent rematches:
{| align="center" style="{{roundy|15px}} background: #{{locationcolor/med|sand}}; border: 5px solid #{{locationcolor/dark|sand}};"
|
{| border=1 width="100%" align="center" style=" {{roundy|15px}}; background:#{{locationcolor/light|sand}}; border:3px solid #{{locationcolor/dark|sand}}"
! class="roundytl"| Region
! Rival
! class="roundytr" colspan="2"| Time and location for (the most recent) rematch
|- style="background:#{{kanto color light}}"
| '''{{color2|{{kanto color dark}}|Kanto}}'''
| '''{{color2|{{kanto color dark}}|Blue (game)|Blue (Champion)}}'''
| Any time
| {{color2|{{kanto color dark}}|Indigo Plateau}}, after defeating Elite Four
|- style="background:#{{johto color light}}; color:#{{johto color dark}}"
| '''{{color2|{{johto color dark}}|Johto}}'''
| '''{{color2|{{johto color dark}}|Silver (game)|Silver}}'''
| Monday and Wednesdays only
| {{color2|{{johto color dark}}|Indigo Plateau}}, right before entering the first room
|- style="background:#{{hoenn color light}}"
| '''{{color2|{{hoenn color dark}}|Hoenn}}'''
| '''{{color2|{{hoenn color dark}}|Wally (game)|Wally}}'''
| Any time
| {{color2|{{hoenn color dark}}|Victory Road (Hoenn)|Victory Road, Hoenn}}
|- style="background:#{{sinnoh color light}}"
| rowspan="2"| '''{{color2|{{sinnoh color dark}}|Sinnoh}}'''
| rowspan="2"| '''{{color2|{{sinnoh color dark}}|Barry (game)|Barry}}'''
| rowspan="2"| Saturdays and Sundays only
| {{color2|{{sinnoh color dark}}|Fight Area}} (Diamond and Pearl only)
|- style="background:#{{sinnoh color light}}"
| {{color2|{{sinnoh color dark}}|Survival Area}} (Platinum only)
|- style="background:#{{unova color light}}; color:#{{unova color dark}}"
| rowspan="3"| '''{{color2|{{unova color dark}}|Unova}}'''
| '''{{color2|{{unova color dark}}|Cheren}}{{sup/5|BW}}'''
| Once per day
| {{color2|{{unova color dark}}|Victory Road (Black and White)|Victory Road, Unova}}
|- style="background:#{{unova color light}}; color:#{{unova color dark}}"
| '''{{color2|{{unova color dark}}|Bianca}}{{sup/5|BW}}'''
| Saturdays and Sundays only
|{{color2|{{unova color dark}}|Nuvema Town#Professor Juniper's lab|Nuvema Town, Professor Juniper's Lab}}
|- style="background:#{{unova color light}}; color:#{{unova color dark}}"
| '''{{color2|{{unova color dark}}|Hugh}}{{sup/5|B2W2}}'''
| Once per day
| {{color2|{{unova color dark}}|Driftveil City}}
|- style="background:#{{kalos color light}}; color:#{{kalos color dark}}"
|- style="background:#{{kalos color light}}; color:#{{kalos color dark}}"
| class="roundybl" rowspan="1"| '''{{color2|{{kalos color dark}}|Kalos}}'''
| '''{{color2|{{kalos color dark}}|Calem}}{{tt|*|If the player is a girl}} or {{color2|{{kalos color dark}}|Serena (game)|Serena}}{{tt|*|If the player is a boy}}'''
| Once per day
| class="roundybr" |{{color2|{{kalos color dark}}|Kiloude City}}
|}
|}

===Regular Trainers===
From [[Generation II]] onwards, rematches were extended to regular Trainers found along normal routes and caves. Appearing in Pokémon {{3v2|Gold|Silver|Crystal}}, the [[Pokégear]] allowed the player to exchange telephone numbers with specific Trainers, allowing them to contact the player for a rematch. In [[Generation III]], the [[PokéNav]]'s {{DL|PokéNav|Trainer's Eyes}} or {{DL|PokéNav|Match Call}} found in Pokémon {{3v2|Ruby|Sapphire|Emerald}} has similar functions as the Pokégear, keeping track of Trainers who want to re-battle the player. However, the only way to rematch with these Trainers was to wait until they were ready, which meant that the player could not control who and when they wanted to battle.

[[File:Vs Seeker demonstration FRLG.png|frame|{{ga|Red}} uses the Vs. Seeker on {{rt|25|Kanto}}. Three Trainers wish to have a rematch.]]

The introduction of the [[Vs. Seeker]] in {{game|FireRed and LeafGreen|s}} allowed the player to conveniently locate and identify Trainers within an outside area who were ready for a rematch, giving more control over who and where the player wanted to battle. The Vs. Seeker is charged by taking 100 steps, thus reducing the timespan a player has to wait between each rematch (as opposed to waiting for a call).

In addition to the Vs. Seeker, in {{game|Diamond and Pearl|s}} and {{game|Platinum}}, certain Trainers can be challenged daily at [[Seven Stars Restaurant]]. In {{game|Platinum}}, players may also fight the maids in the 5-Maid Knockout Exact-Turn Attack Challenge in {{si|Pokémon Mansion}}. Besides that, in {{game|Platinum}}, several Trainers appear in [[Pokémon Centers]] of different cities who can be battled every day. Their particular location changes daily.

In {{game|HeartGold and SoulSilver|s}}, the upgrades for the teams of the Trainers that can be re-battled are fought in three different rematch phases. The requirement for going to the next phase is to face each rematch phase, as well as getting past a certain point in the game. While the first phase is accomplished from the first rematch, the second phase's requirement is that the player must defeat the Elite Four, and the final phase's requirement is for the player to have all sixteen Badges. For example, Youngster [[Joey]]'s {{p|Rattata}} becomes a {{p|Raticate}} for the first rematch, and its level increases further during each rematch phase.

In {{game|Black and White|s|Pokémon Black 2 and White 2|2}}, {{tc|Pokémon Breeder}}s will challenge the player to a battle upon sight as long as the player has left the area since their last battle. This occurs regardless of whether they have been battled prior and without the need for the player to use special items.

===Gym Leaders===
Gym Leader rematches were first introduced in [[Generation III]] in {{game|Emerald}}. However in [[Generation IV]], Gym Leaders were not available for rematches in {{2v2|Diamond|Pearl}}.

====Pokémon Emerald====
{{incomplete|section}}
In {{game|Emerald}}, the Gym Leaders can be rematched through a [[Double Battle]] via the [[PokéNav]]'s {{DL|PokéNav|Match Call}}. The player must have defeated the [[Elite Four]].


[[File:Battleground Pt.png|230px|thumb|right|Battleground (from left): Maylene, Volkner, the player, the Café owner]]

====Pokémon Platinum====
{{main|Battleground}}
In {{game|Platinum}}, the [[Gym Leader]]s of [[Sinnoh]], together with the player's previous [[Stat Trainers|Tag Battle partners]], can be found in the [[Battleground]]. Up to four of these {{pkmn|Trainer}}s appear each day and they can be battled only once a day. Resetting before entering the Battleground would change the Trainers who are inside.

====Pokémon HeartGold and SoulSilver====
[[File:Fighting Dojo HGSS.png|230px|thumb|left|The Fighting Dojo with all the Gym Leaders]]
{{main|Fighting Dojo}}
In {{game|HeartGold and SoulSilver|s}}, the [[Gym Leader]]s of [[Kanto]] and [[Johto]] would be found in the [[Fighting Dojo]]. However, unlike Platinum, the Leaders will not arrive at the Dojo until they have been called on for a rematch.

To re-battle a Gym Leader, the player has to first obtain the Gym Leader's number. Following that, the player can call the Gym Leader at any time, but he or she will only accept a rematch when their schedule is free.

When a Gym Leader has accepted a rematch, he or she will stay in the [[Fighting Dojo]] until he or she is defeated. There is no limit to the number of times a Gym Leader can be rematched.

Note that the phone numbers for most of the Leaders can be obtained after defeating the [[Elite Four]]. However, rematches with the Gym Leaders cannot be scheduled until after the {{Badge|Earth}} has been obtained (i.e. {{ga|Blue}} has been defeated).

=====Gym Leader phone listing=====
Each Leader's telephone number must be obtained from them personally when he or she is out of their Gym (except Chuck and Blue, which have to be obtained from their wife and sister respectively). By speaking with them at the appropriate time and place, players can obtain their phone numbers.

The following table shows how each Leader's number can be obtained:


{| align="center" style="{{roundy|15px}} background: #{{locationcolor/med|building}}; border: 5px solid #7A8B8B;"
|
{| border=1 width="100%" align="center" style=" {{roundy|15px}}; background:#{{locationcolor/light|building}}; border:3px solid #{{locationcolor/dark|building}}"
!class="roundytop" colspan="6"| Johto Gym Leaders
|-
! width="10%"|Leader
! Day
! Time
! Location
! colspan="2"| Pre-requisites (post-Hall of Fame)
|- style="background:#{{flying color light}}; color:#{{flying color dark}}"
|| '''{{color2|{{flying color dark}}|Falkner}}''' || Monday || Any time || {{color2|{{flying color dark}}|Celadon Department Store}}, 4F ||colspan="2"| Must have beaten Janine
|- style="background:#{{bug color light}}; color:#{{bug color dark}}"
|| '''{{color2|{{bug color dark}}|Bugsy}}''' || Thursday || Any time || {{color2|{{bug color dark}}|Viridian Forest}} ||colspan="2"| None
|- style="background:#{{normal color light}}; color:#{{normal color dark}}"
|| '''{{color2|{{normal color dark}}|Whitney}}''' || Any day || 12:00 PM to 4:00 PM || {{color2|{{normal color dark}}|Goldenrod Department Store}}, 6F ||colspan="2"| None
|- style="background:#{{ghost color light}}; color:#{{ghost color dark}}"
|| '''{{color2|{{ghost color dark}}|Morty}}''' || Monday or Tuesday || Any time || {{color2|{{ghost color dark}}|Bellchime Trail}} ||colspan="2"| None
|- style="background:#{{fighting color light}}; color:#{{fighting color dark}}"
|| '''{{color2|{{fighting color dark}}|Chuck}}''' || Any day || Any time || From {{color2|{{fighting color dark}}|Chuck's wife}} at {{color2|{{fighting color dark}}|Cianwood City}} ||colspan="2"| None
|- style="background:#{{steel color light}}; color:#{{steel color dark}}"
|| '''{{color2|{{steel color dark}}|Jasmine}}''' || Any day ||1:00 PM to 2:00 PM ||{{color2|{{steel color dark}}|Olivine City|Olivine}} Café ||colspan="2"| None
|- style="background:#{{ice color light}}; color:#{{ice color dark}}"
|| '''{{color2|{{ice color dark}}|Pryce}}''' || Any day || 6:00 AM to 10:00 AM|| By the {{color2|{{ice color dark}}|Lake of Rage}} ||colspan="2"| None
|- style="background:#{{dragon color light}}; color:#{{dragon color dark}}"
|| '''{{color2|{{dragon color dark}}|Clair}}''' || Any day || 6:00 AM to 10:00 AM|| Inside {{color2|{{dragon color dark}}|Dragon's Den}} ||colspan="2"| Must have defeated her and {{color2|{{dragon color dark}}|Lance}} in a {{color2|{{dragon color dark}}|Tag Battle}}
|-
!colspan="6"| Kanto Gym Leaders
|-
! rowspan="2"| Leader
! rowspan="2"| Day
! rowspan="2"| Time
! rowspan="2"| Location
! colspan="2"| Pre-requisites (post-Hall of Fame)
|-
! Obtain 16 Badges?
! Additional requirements
|- style="background:#{{rock color light}}; color:#{{rock color dark}}"
|| '''{{color2|{{rock color dark}}|Brock}}''' || Any day || 12:00 PM to 3:00 PM|| Inside {{color2|{{rock color dark}}|Diglett's Cave}} || Yes || None
|- style="background:#{{water color light}}; color:#{{water color dark}}"
|| '''{{color2|{{water color dark}}|Misty}}''' || Any day || 4:00 PM to 6:00 PM|| {{color2|{{water color dark}}|Kanto Route 25|Route 25}} || Yes || Will not appear if {{color2|{{water color dark}}|Suicune (Pokémon)|Suicune}} is present
|- style="background:#{{electric color light}}; color:#{{electric color dark}}"
|| '''{{color2|{{electric color dark}}|Lt. Surge}}''' || Any day || 9:00 AM to 11:00 AM|| Outside {{color2|{{electric color dark}}|Kanto Power Plant}} || Yes || Appears after {{color2|{{electric color dark}}|Zapdos (Pokémon)|Zapdos}} is captured and the player is {{color2|{{electric color dark}}|Walking Pokémon|walking}} with a {{color2|{{electric color dark}}|Pikachu (Pokémon)|Pikachu}}
|- style="background:#{{grass color light}}; color:#{{grass color dark}}"
|| '''{{color2|{{grass color dark}}|Erika}}''' || Saturday or Sunday || 3:00 PM to 5:00 PM || {{color2|{{grass color dark}}|Celadon City}} fountain|| Yes || None
|- style="background:#{{poison color light}}; color:#{{poison color dark}}"
|| '''{{color2|{{poison color dark}}|Janine}}''' || Any day || 4:00 PM to 6:00 PM|| {{color2|{{poison color dark}}|Pokémon League Reception Gate}} || No || Defeat Janine
|- style="background:#{{psychic color light}}; color:#{{psychic color dark}}"
|| '''{{color2|{{psychic color dark}}|Sabrina}}''' || Friday || Any time|| {{color2|{{psychic color dark}}|Olivine City|Olivine}} Harbor || No || Defeat Sabrina, must have S.S. Ticket
|- style="background:#{{fire color light}}; color:#{{fire color dark}}"
|| '''{{color2|{{fire color dark}}|Blaine}}''' || Tuesday || Any time|| {{color2|{{fire color dark}}|Cinnabar Island}} || Yes || None
|- style="background:#{{blue color light}}; color:#{{blue color dark}}"
|class="roundybl"| '''{{color2|{{blue color dark}}|Blue (game)|Blue}}''' || Any day || Any time || From {{color2|{{blue color dark}}|Daisy Oak}} at {{color2|{{blue color dark}}|Pallet Town}} || Yes ||class="roundybr"| After having at least seven massages and showing Daisy a Pokémon with full happiness
|-
|}
|}

=====Gym Leader rematch schedule=====
The following table shows when the Gym Leaders are free to accept a rematch.

As midnight to 3:59 AM is considered to be "night" by the game, any Leader who can be battled at night can be battled from midnight to 3:59 AM or from 8:00 PM to 11:59 PM.


{| align="center" width="75%" style="{{roundy|15px}} border: 2px solid #{{locationcolor/dark|building}}; background: #{{locationcolor/med|building}};"
!Gym Leaders' Schedule
{| border="1" width="100%" style="{{roundy|15px}} border:2px solid #{{locationcolor/dark|building}}; background: #{{locationcolor/light|building}};"
!class="roundytl" width="20%" |Day
! style="background:#{{morning color}}; border: 2px solid #{{#switch: {{#time: G}}|4|5|6|7|8|9=000000}};" | Morning (4:00 - 9:59am)
! style="background:#{{day color}}; border: 2px solid #{{#switch: {{#time: G}}|10|11|12|13|14|15|16|17|18|19=000000}};" | Afternoon (10:00am - 7:59pm)
! style="background:#{{night color}}; border: 2px solid #{{{{#switch: {{#time: G}}|20|21|22|23|24|1|2|3={{night textcolor}}}}" class="roundytr" | {{color|{{night textcolor}}|Night (12:00 - 3:59am) (8:00 - 11:59pm)}}

|-
! style="background:#AAAAAA; border: 2px solid #{{#ifeq: {{#time: l}}|Sunday|000000|AAAAAA}};" | Sunday
| style="background:#{{grass color light}}"|
{| align="center" style="background:none"
|-
| [[File:Spr HGSS Erika.png]]
|-
| {{color2|{{grass color dark}}|Erika}}
|}
| style="background:#{{psychic color light}}"|
{| align="center" style="background:none"
|-
| [[File:Spr HGSS Sabrina.png]]
|-
| {{color2|{{psychic color dark}}|Sabrina}}
|}
| style="background:#{{blue color light}}"|
{| align="center" style="background:none"
|-
| [[File:Spr HGSS Blue.png]]
|-
| {{color2|{{blue color dark}}|Blue (game)|Blue}}
|}
|-
! style="background:#DDDD33; border: 2px solid #{{#ifeq: {{#time: l}}|Monday|000000|DDDD33}};" | Monday
| style="background:#{{ice color light}}"|
{| align="center" style="background:none"
|-
| [[File:Spr HGSS Pryce.png]]
|-
| {{color2|{{ice color dark}}|Pryce}}
|}
| style="background:#{{poison color light}}"|
{| align="center" style="background:none"
|-
| [[File:Spr HGSS Janine.png]]
|-
| {{color2|{{poison color dark}}|Janine}}
|}
|
|-
! style="background:#DD3333; border: 2px solid #{{#ifeq: {{#time: l}}|Tuesday|000000|DD3333}};" | Tuesday
|
| style="background:#{{fire color light}}"|
{| align="center" style="background:none"
|-
| [[File:Spr HGSS Blaine.png]]
|-
| {{color2|{{fire color dark}}|Blaine}}
|}
| style="background:#{{ghost color light}}"|
{| align="center" style="background:none"
|-
| [[File:Spr HGSS Morty.png]]
|-
| {{color2|{{ghost color dark}}|Morty}}
|}
|-
! style="background:#3333DD; border: 2px solid #{{#ifeq: {{#time: l}}|Wednesday|000000|3333DD}};" | Wednesday
| style="background:#{{water color light}}"|
{| align="center" style="background:none"
|-
| [[File:Spr HGSS Misty.png]]
|-
| {{color2|{{water color dark}}|Misty}}
|}
| style="background:#{{steel color light}}"|
{| align="center" style="background:none"
|-
| [[File:Spr HGSS Jasmine.png]]
|-
| {{color2|{{steel color dark}}|Jasmine}}
|}
|style="background:#{{fighting color light}}"|
{| align="center" style="background:none"
|-
| [[File:Spr HGSS Chuck.png]]
|-
| {{color2|{{fighting color dark}}|Chuck}}
|}
|-
! style="background:#33DD33; border: 2px solid #{{#ifeq: {{#time: l}}|Thursday|000000|33DD33}};" | Thursday
|
|style="background:#{{bug color light}}"|
{| align="center" style="background:none"
|-
| [[File:Spr HGSS Bugsy.png]]
|-
| {{color2|{{bug color dark}}|Bugsy}}
|}
|
|-
! style="background:#FFD700; border: 2px solid #{{#ifeq: {{#time: l}}|Friday|000000|FFD700}};" | Friday
|style="background:#{{electric color light}}"|
{| align="center" style="background:none"
|-
| [[File:Spr HGSS Lt Surge.png]]
|-
| {{color2|{{electric color dark}}|Lt. Surge}}
|}
|
|style="background:#{{dragon color light}}"|
{| align="center" style="background:none"
|-
| [[File:Spr HGSS Clair.png]]
|-
| {{color2|{{dragon color dark}}|Clair}}
|}
|-
! style="background:#885522; border: 2px solid #{{#ifeq: {{#time: l}}|Saturday|000000|885522}};" class="roundybl" | Saturday
| style="background:#{{flying color light}}"|
{| align="center" style="background:none"
|-
| [[File:Spr HGSS Falkner.png]]
|-
| {{color2|{{flying color dark}}|Falkner}}
|}
| style="background:#{{normal color light}}"|
{| align="center" style="background:none"
|-
| [[File:Spr HGSS Whitney.png]]
|-
| {{color2|{{normal color dark}}|Whitney}}
|}
| class="roundybr" style="background:#{{rock color light}}"|
{| align="center" style="background:none"
|-
| [[File:Spr HGSS Brock.png]]
|-
| {{color2|{{rock color dark}}|Brock}}
|}
|-
|}

|}

====Pokémon X and Y====
{{main|Battle Chateau}}

In {{pkmn|X and Y}}, the [[Gym Leader]]s of [[Kalos]] can be rematched at the [[Battle Chateau]] once the {{player}} reaches the rank of {{tc|Marquis}} or {{tc|Marchioness}}. The Gym Leaders use two of their Pokémon, who start at [[level]] 40, but the level can be adjusted by issuing {{DL|Battle Chateau|Writs}}. Unlike in previous games, the [[Kalos League#Elite Four and Champion|Elite Four]] of Kalos and its {{pkmn|Champion}} do not receive higher level teams when rematched at the {{kal|Pokémon League}}. Instead, they can also be encountered at the Chateau. The Elite Four can be rematched when the player reaches the rank of {{tc|Duke}} or {{tc|Duchess}}. They use three Pokémon at the base level of 55. Finally, [[Diantha]] can be rematched when the player reaches the highest rank; Grand Duke or {{tc|Grand Duchess}}. She uses four Pokémon, including her [[Mega Evolution|Mega]] {{p|Gardevoir}}, at the base level of 60.

===Legendary and special encounter Pokémon===
In all games, being defeated by a legendary Pokémon does not cause it to disappear. In all games in which [[roaming Pokémon]] exist, [[Escape|fleeing]] from them does not cause them to vanish; the game simply behaves the same as if they were the ones to flee.

In Pokémon FireRed, LeafGreen, and Emerald, if the player flees from a stationary [[legendary Pokémon]] it will reappear upon leaving and re-entering the room, unlike the previous games where a stationary legendary Pokémon could only be encountered once. The game informs the player that "The <sc><Pokémon></sc> flew away!"

In Pokémon Platinum, if the player defeats or flees from a stationary legendary Pokémon, it reappears after the player enters the [[Hall of Fame]] again. If the player defeats a [[roaming Pokémon]], the player must re-trigger the event which caused it to start roaming; for example, the player must talk to [[Professor Oak]] to cause a [[legendary birds|legendary bird]] to resume roaming. If the player flees from or defeats [[Form differences#Giratina|Origin Forme]] {{p|Giratina}} in the [[Distortion World]], it will reappear in [[Turnback Cave]] in its Altered Forme, where it behaves in the same way as all other stationary legendary Pokémon.

This was extended to all stationary Pokémon ([[red Gyarados]], {{p|Sudowoodo}} and {{p|Snorlax}}) in HeartGold and SoulSilver. If {{p|Suicune}} is defeated or fled from, [[Eusine]] will comment on this fact, and it will instead reappear at the [[Burned Tower]], where it behaves in the same way as all other stationary legendary Pokémon. If {{p|Ho-Oh}}{{sup/4|HG}} or {{p|Lugia}}{{sup/4|SS}} is defeated or fled from during the storyline, the [[Kimono Girl]]s will comment on this fact then leave, but the two still behave like all stationary Pokémon.

In Pokémon Black and White, {{p|Reshiram}}{{sup/5|B}} or {{p|Zekrom}}{{sup/5|W}} must be caught; defeating, fleeing or losing to the Pokémon does not cause it to disappear, and the story cannot be progressed until it is caught; instead, the player is warped back to the {{un|Pokémon League}} [[Pokémon Center]] to try again. However, if the player has a full [[party]] and [[PC]], it is possible to progress without catching it. If this situation occurs, it will instead appear at [[Dragonspiral Tower]] after defeating [[Team Plasma]], where it behaves in the same way as all other stationary legendary Pokémon. However, it will still not give any [[experience|experience points]] even in that situation.

==In side games==
===Pokémon Mystery Dungeon===
In the Pokémon Mystery Dungeon series, [[legendary Pokémon]] that have been battled must be fought again in order to be recruited. However, this is only true if the said legendary Pokémon is involved in the storyline.

===Pokémon Ranger===
In the Pokémon Ranger series, the [[Drowsy Guy]] will allow the player to re-do a memorable capture. In {{ga|Pokémon Ranger}}, he allows the player to re-capture the [[legendary beasts]], while in [[Pokémon Ranger: Shadows of Almia|the sequel]], he allows the player to re-capture {{p|Darkrai}}. In [[Pokémon Ranger: Guardian Signs]], [[Nema]] allows the player to re-battle several Boss Pokémon on a model of [[Dolce Island]] via the use of her "Many Times Any Time Capture Machine"

==In the anime==
With the exception of the [[Orange League]], {{Ash}} has had to rematch at least one Gym Leader or [[Frontier Brain]] in each leg of his {{pkmn|journey}}. However, only once has he had a rematch with a [[Wattson|Gym Leader he has beaten]] that isn't in his {{ashfr|circle of friends}}.

===[[Original series]]===
{| align="center" style="{{roundy|10px}} border: 1px solid #{{yellow color}}; background: #{{yellow color}}; width: 100%;"
|-
! style="background: #{{red color light}}; {{roundytl|10px}};" | Opponent
! style="background: #{{red color light}}" | First match
! style="background: #{{red color light}}" | Result
! style="background: #{{green color light}}" | Follow-up match
! style="background: #{{green color light}}; {{roundytr|10px}};" | Result
|- align="center" style="background: #{{rock color light}}"
! [[File:Boulder Badge.png|40px|Boulder Badge]] {{color2|{{rock color dark}}|Brock (anime)|Brock}}
| [[File:Brock Onix Bind.png|150px|Showdown in Pewter City]] ''{{color2|{{rock color dark}}|EP005|Showdown in Pewter City}}''
! style="background: #{{red color light}}" | {{color|{{red color dark}}|Forfeit}}
| [[File:EP005.png|150px|Showdown in Pewter City]] ''{{color2|{{rock color dark}}|EP005|Showdown in Pewter City}}''
! style="background: #{{green color light}}" | {{color|{{green color dark}}|Ash forfeits again, but Brock rewards his Badge in recognition of Ash's compassion.}}
|- align="center" style="background: #{{electric color light}}"
! [[File:Thunder Badge.png|40px|Thunder Badge]] {{color2|{{electric color dark}}|Lt. Surge}}
| [[File:Lt Surge Raichu Body Slam.png|150px|Electric Shock Showdown]] ''{{color2|{{electric color dark}}|EP014|Electric Shock Showdown}}''
! style="background: #{{red color light}}" | {{color|{{red color dark}}|Loss}}
| [[File:Ash Pikachu Agility.png|150px|Electric Shock Showdown]] ''{{color2|{{electric color dark}}|EP014|Electric Shock Showdown}}''
! style="background: #{{green color light}}" | {{color|{{green color dark}}|Victory}}
|- align="center" style="background: #{{psychic color light}}"
! [[File:Marsh Badge.png|40px|Marsh Badge]] {{color2|{{psychic color dark}}|Sabrina}}
| [[File:EP022.png|150px|Abra and the Psychic Showdown]] ''{{color2|{{psychic color dark}}|EP022|Abra and the Psychic Showdown}}''
! style="background: #{{red color light}}" | {{color|{{red color dark}}|Forfeit}}
| [[File:EP024.png|150px|Haunter versus Kadabra]] ''{{color2|{{psychic color dark}}|EP024|Haunter versus Kadabra}}''
! style="background: #{{green color light}}" | {{color|{{green color dark}}|Ash forfeits again, but with}} {{color2|{{green color dark}}|Sabrina's Haunter|Haunter's}} {{color|{{green color dark}}|help, he manages to break Sabrina out of her trance. Ash receives Badge as a token of gratitude.}}
|- align="center" style="background: #{{fire color light}}"
! [[File:Volcano Badge.png|40px|Volcano Badge]] {{color2|{{fire color dark}}|Blaine}}
| [[File:EP058.png|150px|Riddle Me This]] ''{{color2|{{fire color dark}}|EP058|Riddle Me This}}''
! style="background: #{{red color light}}" | {{color|{{red color dark}}|Forfeit}}
| [[File:EP059.png|150px|Volcanic Panic]] ''{{color2|{{fire color dark}}|EP059|Volcanic Panic}}''
! style="background: #{{green color light}}" | {{color|{{green color dark}}| Victory}}
|- align="center" style="background: #{{normal color light}}"
! [[File:Plain Badge.png|40px|Plain Badge]] {{color2|{{normal color dark}}|Whitney}}
| [[File:EP158.png|150px|A Goldenrod Opportunity]] ''{{color2|{{normal color dark}}|EP158|A Goldenrod Opportunity}}''
! style="background: #{{red color light}}" | {{color|{{red color dark}}|Loss}}
| [[File:EP159.png|150px|A Dairy Tale Ending]] ''{{color2|{{normal color dark}}|EP159|A Dairy Tale Ending}}''
! style="background: #{{green color light}}" | {{color|{{green color dark}}| Victory}}
|- align="center" style="background: #{{dragon color light}}"
! style="background: #{{dragon color light}}; ; {{roundybl|10px}};" |[[File:Rising Badge.png|40px|Rising Badge]] {{color2|{{dragon color dark}}|Clair}}
| [[File:EP252.png|150px|Fangs for Nothin']] ''{{color2|{{dragon color dark}}|EP252|Fangs for Nothin'}}''
! style="background: #FFF" | {{color|{{red color dark}}|Interrupted by}} {{color2|{{red color dark}}|Team Rocket trio|Team Rocket}}
| [[File:EP254.png|150px|Better Eight Than Never]] ''{{color2|{{dragon color dark}}|EP254|Better Eight Than Never}}''
! style="background: #{{green color light}}; {{roundybr|10px}};" | {{color|{{green color dark}}| Victory}}
|}

==={{series|Advanced Generation}}===
{| align="center" style="{{roundy|10px}} border: 1px solid #{{emerald color}}; background: #{{emerald color}}; width: 100%;"
|-
! style="background: #{{ruby color light}}; {{roundytl|10px}};" | Opponent
! style="background: #{{ruby color light}}" | First match
! style="background: #{{ruby color light}}" | Result
! style="background: #{{sapphire color light}}" | Follow-up match
! style="background: #{{sapphire color light}}; {{roundytr|10px}};" | Result
|- align="center" style="background: #{{normal color light}}"
! [[File:Balance Badge.png|40px|Balance Badge]] {{color2|{{normal color dark}}|Norman}}
| [[File:AG003.png|150px|There's No Place Like Hoenn]] ''{{color2|{{normal color dark}}|AG003|There's No Place Like Hoenn}}''
! style="background: #{{red color light}}" | {{color|{{red color dark}}|Unofficial one-on-one battle Ash loses}}
| [[File:AG070.png|150px|Balance of Power]] ''{{color2|{{normal color dark}}|AG070|Balance of Power}}''
! style="background: #{{green color light}}" | {{color|{{green color dark}}|Official match Ash wins}}
|- align="center" style="background: #{{fighting color light}}"
! [[File:Knuckle Badge.png|40px|Knuckle Badge]] {{color2|{{fighting color dark}}|Brawly}}
| [[File:Brawly Makuhita Vital Throw1.png|150px|Brave the Wave]] ''{{color2|{{fighting color dark}}|AG020|Brave the Wave}}''
! style="background: #{{red color light}}" | {{color|{{red color dark}}|Loss}}
| [[File:AG031.png|150px|Just One of the Geysers]] ''{{color2|{{fighting color dark}}|AG031|Just One of the Geysers}}''
! style="background: #{{green color light}}" | {{color|{{green color dark}}| Victory}}
|- align="center" style="background: #{{electric color light}}"
! [[File:Dynamo Badge.png|40px|Dynamo Badge]] {{color2|{{electric color dark}}|Wattson}}
| [[File:AG040.png|150px|Watt's with Wattson?]] ''{{color2|{{electric color dark}}|AG040|Watt's with Wattson?}}''
! style="background: #{{green color light}}" | {{color|{{green color dark}}|Ash wins with an overcharged}} {{color2|{{green color dark}}|Ash's Pikachu|Pikachu}}{{color|{{green color dark}}|.}} {{color|{{green color dark}}|Wattson insists Ash keeps the Badge.}}
| [[File:AG059.png|150px|Manectric Charge]] ''{{color2|{{electric color dark}}|AG059|Manectric Charge}}''
! style="background: #{{red color light}}" | {{color|{{red color dark}}|Unofficial rematch Ash loses}}
|- align="center" style="background: #{{frontier color light}}"
! [[File:Abilitysymbol.png|40px|Ability Symbol]] {{color2|{{frontier color dark}}|Anabel}}
| [[File:AG169.png|150px|Talking a Good Game!]] ''{{color2|{{frontier color dark}}|AG169|Talking a Good Game!}}''
! style="background: #{{red color light}}" | {{color|{{red color dark}}|Loss}}
| [[File:AG170.png|150px|Second Time's the Charm!]] ''{{color2|{{frontier color dark}}|AG170|Second Time's the Charm!}}''
! style="background: #{{green color light}}" | {{color|{{green color dark}}| Victory}}
|- align="center" style="background: #{{frontier color light}}"
| style="background: #{{frontier color light}} {{roundybl|10px}};" rowspan="2" | [[File:Bravesymbol.png|40px|Brave Symbol]] '''{{color2|{{frontier color dark}}|Brandon}}'''
| rowspan="2" | [[File:Brandon Regirock Iron Defense.png|150px|Battling the Enemy Within!]] ''{{color2|{{frontier color dark}}|AG178|Battling the Enemy Within!}}''
! rowspan="2" style="background: #{{red color light}}" | {{color|{{red color dark}}|Ash is}} {{color2|{{red color dark}}|King of Pokélantis|possessed}}{{color|{{red color dark}}|, and the match is declared unofficial.}}
| [[File:AG186.png|150px|Overjoyed!]] ''{{color2|{{frontier color dark}}|AG186|Overjoyed!}}''
! style="background: #{{red color light}}" | {{color|{{red color dark}}|First official match Ash loses}}
|- align="center" style="background: #{{frontier color light}}"
| [[File:AG190.png|150px|Pace - The Final Frontier!]] ''{{color2|{{frontier color dark}}|AG190|Pace - The Final Frontier!}}''
! style="background: #{{green color light}}; {{roundybr|10px}};" | {{color|{{green color dark}}|Second official match Ash wins}}
|}

==={{series|Diamond & Pearl}}===
{| align="center" style="{{roundy|10px}} border: 1px solid #{{platinum color}}; background: #{{platinum color}}; width: 100%;"
|-
! style="background: #{{diamond color light}}; {{roundytl|10px}};" | Opponent
! style="background: #{{diamond color light}}" | First match
! style="background: #{{diamond color light}}" | Result
! style="background: #{{pearl color light}}" | Follow-up match
! style="background: #{{pearl color light}}; {{roundytr|10px}};" | Result
|- align="center" style="background: #{{rock color light}}"
! [[File:Coal Badge.png|40px|Coal Badge]] {{color2|{{rock color dark}}|Roark}}
| [[File:DP016.png|150px|A Gruff Act to Follow!]] ''{{color2|{{rock color dark}}|DP016|A Gruff Act to Follow!}}''
! style="background: #{{red color light}}" | {{color|{{red color dark}}|Loss}}
| [[File:DP018.png|150px|O'er the Rampardos We Watched!]] ''{{color2|{{rock color dark}}|DP018|O'er the Rampardos We Watched!}}''
! style="background: #{{green color light}}" | {{color|{{green color dark}}| Victory}}
|- align="center" style="background: #{{grass color light}}"
! [[File:Forest Badge.png|40px|Forest Badge]] {{color2|{{grass color dark}}|Gardenia}}
| [[File:DP031.png|150px|The Grass-Type Is Always Greener!]] ''{{color2|{{grass color dark}}|DP031|The Grass-Type Is Always Greener!}}''
! style="background: #{{red color light}}" | {{color|{{red color dark}}|Unofficial battle Ash loses}}
| [[File:DP037.png|150px|The Grass Menagerie!]] ''{{color2|{{grass color dark}}|DP037|The Grass Menagerie!}}''
! style="background: #{{green color light}}" | {{color|{{green color dark}}| Victory}}
|- align="center" style="background: #{{ghost color light}}"
! style="background: #{{ghost color light}};" | [[File:Relic Badge.png|40px|Relic Badge]] {{color2|{{ghost color dark}}|Fantina}}
| [[File:Fantina Drifblim Hypnosis.png|150px|Playing the Leveling Field!]] ''{{color2|{{ghost color dark}}|DP093|Playing the Leveling Field!}}''
! style="background: #{{red color light}}" | {{color|{{red color dark}}|Unofficial battle Forfeit}}
| [[File:DP102.png|150px|Shield with a Twist!]] ''{{color2|{{ghost color dark}}|DP102|Shield with a Twist!}}''
! style="background: #{{green color light}};" | {{color|{{green color dark}}| Victory}}
|- align="center" style="background: #{{electric color light}}"
! style="background: #{{electric color light}}; ; {{roundybl|10px}};" |[[File:Beacon Badge.png|40px|Beacon Badge]] {{color2|{{electric color dark}}|Volkner}}
| [[File:Volkner Luxray Spark.png|150px|The Fleeing Tower of Sunyshore!]] ''{{color2|{{electric color dark}}|DP166|The Fleeing Tower of Sunyshore!}}''
! style="background: #FFF" | {{color|{{red color dark}}|Interrupted by}} {{color2|{{red color dark}}|Team Rocket trio|Team Rocket}}
| [[File:DP179.png|150px|The Eighth Wonder of the Sinnoh World!]] ''{{color2|{{electric color dark}}|DP179|The Eighth Wonder of the Sinnoh World!}}''
! style="background: #{{green color light}}; {{roundybr|10px}};" | {{color|{{green color dark}}| Victory}}
|}

==={{series|Best Wishes}}===
{| align="center" style="{{roundy|10px}} border: 1px solid #{{unova color}}; background: #{{unova color}}; width: 100%;"
|-
! style="background: #{{black color light}}; {{roundytl|10px}};" | Opponent
! style="background: #{{black color light}}" | First match
! style="background: #{{black color light}}" | Result
! style="background: #{{white color light}}" | Follow-up match
! style="background: #{{white color light}}; {{roundytr|10px}};" | Result
|- align="center" style="background: #{{normal color light}}"
! style="background: #{{normal color light}}; {{roundybl|10px}};" | [[File:Basic Badge.png|40px|Basic Badge]] {{color2|{{normal color dark}}|Lenora}}
| [[File:BW015.png|200px|The Battle According to Lenora!]] ''{{color2|{{normal color dark}}|BW015|The Battle According to Lenora!}}''
! style="background: #{{red color light}}" | {{color|{{red color dark}}|Loss}}
| [[File:BW016.png|200px|Rematch at the Nacrene Gym!]] ''{{color2|{{normal color dark}}|BW016|Rematch at the Nacrene Gym!}}''
! style="background: #{{green color light}}; {{roundybr|10px}};" | {{color|{{green color dark}}| Victory}}
|}

==={{series|XY}}===
{| align="center" style="{{roundy|10px}} border: 1px solid #{{kalos color}}; background: #{{kalos color}}; width: 100%;"
|-
! style="background: #{{x color light}}; {{roundytl|10px}};" | Opponent
! style="background: #{{x color light}}" | First match
! style="background: #{{x color light}}" | Result
! style="background: #{{y color light}}" | Follow-up match
! style="background: #{{y color light}}; {{roundytr|10px}};" | Result
|- align="center" style="background: #{{bug color light}}"
! style="background: #{{bug color light}}; {{roundybl|10px}};" | [[File:Bug Badge.png|40px|Bug Badge]] {{color2|{{bug color dark}}|Viola}}
| [[File:XY005.png|200px]] ''{{color2|{{bug color dark}}|XY005|A Blustery Santalune Gym Battle!}}
! style="background: #{{red color light}}" | {{color|{{red color dark}}|Loss}}
| [[File:XY006.png|200px]] ''{{color2|{{bug color dark}}|XY006|Battling on Thin Ice!}}
! style="background: #{{green color light}}; {{roundybr|10px}};" | {{color|{{green color dark}}|Victory}}
|}



{{Project Games notice|game mechanic}}

[[Category:Terminology]]
[[Category:Game mechanics]]

[[de:Rückkämpfe]]
[[fr:Revanche]]

Munna (Pokémon)

2014-01-11T17:59:27Z

Ericss: Give me a break. Such an obvious coincidence isn't worth putting a picture about.

{{PokémonPrevNextHead | species=Munna | prev=Simipour | next=Musharna | prevnum=516 | nextnum=518 | type=Psychic }}
{{Pokémon Infobox|
name=Munna|
jname=ムンナ |
tmname=Munna |
pron=<sc>''{{{pron|MOON-nuh}}}''</sc> |
species=Dream Eater |
typebox=1 |
type1=Psychic |
abilityn=d|
ability1=Forewarn|
ability2=Synchronize|
abilityd=Telepathy |
udex=023 |
ndex=517 |
u2dex=086 |
height-ftin=2'00" |
height-m=0.6 |
weight-lbs=51.3 |
weight-kg=23.3 |
egggroupn=1 |
egggroup1=Field |
eggcycles=11 |
expyield=58 |
lv100exp=800,000 |
gendercode=127 |
color=Pink |
catchrate=190 |
evtotal=1|
evhp=1|
body=08 |
pokefordex=munna |
generation=5 |
friendship=70|
}}
'''Munna''' ([[List of Japanese Pokémon names|Japanese]]: '''ムンナ''' ''Munna'') is a {{type|Psychic}} Pokémon.

It [[Evolution|evolve]]s into {{p|Musharna}} when exposed to a {{evostone|Moon Stone}}.

==Biology==
Munna is a pink, nearly spherical, quadruped Pokémon of indefinable basis. It has four tiny tapered limbs and a tapered snout that largely obscures its sizable mouth. It has shiny, oval, red eyes with two discernible upper eyelashes. Between its eyes is an oval spot in a darker shade of pink, from which Munna can expel [[Dream Mist]]. Purple, five petal flower markings with dark pink centers ornament much of its body. It is able to constantly float in the air.

Munna is able to eat the dreams of people and Pokémon, as well as project these dreams by expelling Dream Mist. A person whose dream was eaten by a Munna will forget the dream's contents. The Dream Mist it expels is pink if the dream was pleasant, yet Munna can also seek out and cure people and Pokémon who are having nightmares.

==In the anime==
[[File:Fennel Munna.png|thumb|left|250px|Munna in the anime]]
===Major appearances===
====[[Fennel's Munna]]====
Munna made its anime debut in ''[[BW006|Dreams by the Yard Full!]]'' alongside [[Fennel]]. Together, they were able to locate her lost {{p|Musharna}}. The three later reappeared in ''[[BW036|Archeops In The Modern World!]]'' where they revived an {{p|Archen}} from a [[Cover and Plume Fossils|Plume Fossil]].

===Minor appearances===
Several Munna appeared in ''[[M14|White—Victini and Zekrom and Black—Victini and Reshiram]]''. They were inside the [[Sword of the Vale]] in the past.

Multiple Munna appeared in ''[[BW053|A Maractus Musical!]]''.

A photo of a Munna appeared in ''[[BW054|The Four Seasons of Sawsbuck!]]''.

Munna has made cameo appearances in ''[[BW067|Cilan Takes Flight]]'' and ''[[BW069|Climbing the Tower of Success!]]''.

===Pokédex entries===
{{Animedexheader|Unova}}
{{Animedexbody|BW006|Munna|Ash's Pokédex|Munna, the Dream Eater Pokémon. Munna can eat the dreams of people and Pokémon alike, and then project those dreams by emitting [[Dream Mist]] from its body.}}
{{Animedexfooter/Pokémon|''Best Wishes''|Unova}}

==In the manga==
[[File:Black Musha Munna.png|thumb|150px|Munna in Pokémon Adventures]]
===In the Pokémon Adventures manga===
{{main|Musha}}
A Munna named Musha was the second Pokémon {{adv|Black}} obtained. Musha was able to eat Black's dreams, clearing his mind of distractions, allowing him to perceive things a normal human can't.

===In the Pokémon Pocket Monsters manga===
A Munna makes an appearance in {{OBP|Pocket Monsters BW|Kosaku Anakubo}}.

==In the TCG==
{{main|Munna (TCG)}}

==Game data==

===NPC appearances===
* [[Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Gates to Infinity]]: {{mdc|Munna|gti}} is a major character in the main story line.

===Pokédex entries===
{{Dex
|type=psychic
|gen=5
|blackdex=Munna always float in the air. People whose dreams are eaten by them forget what the dreams had been about.
|whitedex=It eats the dreams of people and Pokémon. When it eats a pleasant dream, it expels pink-colored mist.
|b2w2dex=This Pokémon appears before people and Pokémon who are having nightmares and eats those dreams.
|xdex=This Pokémon appears before people and Pokémon who are having nightmares and eats those dreams.
|ydex=It eats the dreams of people and Pokémon. When it eats a pleasant dream, it expels pink-colored mist.
}}

===Game locations===
{{Availability|
type=psychic|
gen=5 |
bwrarity=Uncommon|
bwarea=[[Dreamyard]] |
b2w2rarity=Uncommon|
b2w2area=[[Dreamyard]] |
}}

====In side games====
{{SidegameAvail
|type=psychic
|rumble2=Tower: [[Challenger's Ground]]
|mdgti=[[Worldcore]], [[Jaws of the Abyss]], [[Slumbering Cave]], Magnagate dungeons, [[Rusty Mountain]] (Golden Chamber), [[Smoking Mountain]], [[Path of No Return]]
|conquest=[[Illusio]]
}}

===Held items===

===Stats===
====Base stats====
{{BaseStats|
type=Psychic|
HP=76|
Attack=25|
Defense=45|
SpAtk=67|
SpDef=55|
Speed=24}}

===Type effectiveness===
{{TypeEffectiveness|
type1=psychic |
Normal= 100 |
Flying= 100 |
Fighting= 50 |
Ground= 100 |
Rock= 100 |
Bug= 200 |
Poison= 100 |
Ghost= 200 |
Steel= 100 |

Fire= 100 |
Grass= 100 |
Electric=100 |
Psychic= 50 |
Water= 100 |
Ice= 100 |
Dragon= 100 |
Dark= 200 |
Fairy= 100}}

===Learnset===
====By [[Level|leveling up]]====
{{learnlist/levelh|Munna|Psychic|Psychic|5|5}}
{{learnlist/level5|Start|Psywave|Psychic|Special|—|80|15}}
{{learnlist/level5|Start|Defense Curl|Normal|Status|—|—|40}}
{{learnlist/level5|5|Lucky Chant|Normal|Status|—|—|30}}
{{learnlist/level5|7|Yawn|Normal|Status|—|—|10}}
{{learnlist/level5|11|Psybeam|Psychic|Special|65|100|20||'''}}
{{learnlist/level5|13|Imprison|Psychic|Status|—|—|10}}
{{learnlist/level5|17|Moonlight|Fairy|Status|—|—|5}}
{{learnlist/level5|19|Hypnosis|Psychic|Status|—|60|20}}
{{learnlist/level5|23|Zen Headbutt|Psychic|Physical|80|90|15||'''}}
{{learnlist/level5|25|Synchronoise|Psychic|Special|70|100|15||'''}}
{{learnlist/level5|29|Nightmare|Ghost|Status|—|100|15}}
{{learnlist/level5|31|Future Sight|Psychic|Special|100|100|10||'''}}
{{learnlist/level5|35|Calm Mind|Psychic|Status|—|—|20}}
{{learnlist/level5|37|Psychic|Psychic|Special|90|100|10||'''}}
{{learnlist/level5|41|Dream Eater|Psychic|Special|100|100|15||'''}}
{{learnlist/level5|43|Telekinesis|Psychic|Status|—|—|15}}
{{learnlist/level5|47|Stored Power|Psychic|Special|20|100|10||'''}}
{{learnlist/levelf|Munna|Psychic|Psychic|5|5}}

====By [[TM]]/[[HM]]====
{{learnlist/tmh/6|Munna|Psychic|Psychic|5}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM06|Toxic|Poison|Status|—|90|10}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM10|Hidden Power|Normal|Special|60|100|15}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM17|Protect|Normal|Status|—|—|10}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM21|Frustration|Normal|Physical|—|100|20}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM27|Return|Normal|Physical|—|100|20}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM32|Double Team|Normal|Status|—|—|15}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM42|Facade|Normal|Physical|70|100|20}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM44|Rest|Psychic|Status|—|—|10}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM45|Attract|Normal|Status|—|100|15}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM48|Round|Normal|Special|60|100|15}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM53|Energy Ball|Grass|Special|90|100|10}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM70|Flash|Normal|Status|—|100|20}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM87|Swagger|Normal|Status|—|90|15}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM88|Sleep Talk|Normal|Status|—|—|10}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM90|Substitute|Normal|Status|—|—|10}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM99|Dazzling Gleam|Fairy|Special|80|100|10}}
{{learnlist/tm6|TM100|Confide|Normal|Status|—|—|20}}
{{learnlist/tmf/6|Munna|Psychic|Psychic|5}}

====By {{pkmn|breeding}}====
{{learnlist/breedh/6|Munna|Psychic|Psychic|5}}
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|427|Buneary}}{{MSP|428|Lopunny}}|Healing Wish|Psychic|Status|—|—|10}}
{{learnlist/breedf/6|Munna|Psychic|Psychic|5}}

====By [[Move Tutor|tutoring]]====
{{learnlist/tutorh|Munna|Psychic|Psychic|5|5}}
{{learnlist/tutor5|After You|Normal|Status|—|—|15|||no|yes}}
{{learnlist/tutor5|Gravity|Psychic|Status|—|—|5|||no|yes}}
{{learnlist/tutor5|Heal Bell|Normal|Status|—|—|5|||no|yes}}
{{learnlist/tutor5|Helping Hand|Normal|Status|—|—|20|||no|yes}}
{{learnlist/tutor5|Magic Coat|Psychic|Status|—|—|15|||no|yes}}
{{learnlist/tutor5|Pain Split|Normal|Status|—|—|20|||no|yes}}
{{learnlist/tutor5|Signal Beam|Bug|Special|75|100|15|||no|yes}}
{{learnlist/tutor5|Skill Swap|Psychic|Status|—|—|10|||no|yes}}
{{learnlist/tutor5|Sleep Talk|Normal|Status|—|—|10|||no|yes}}
{{learnlist/tutor5|Snore|Normal|Special|40|100|15|||no|yes}}
{{learnlist/tutor5|Trick|Psychic|Status|—|100|10|||no|yes}}
{{learnlist/tutor5|Wonder Room|Psychic|Status|—|—|10|||no|yes}}
{{learnlist/tutor5|Worry Seed|Grass|Status|—|100|10|||no|yes}}
{{learnlist/tutor5|Zen Headbutt|Psychic|Physical|80|90|15||'''|no|yes}}
{{learnlist/tutorf|Munna|Psychic|Psychic|5|5}}

===Side game data===
{{Sidegame|
type=Psychic |
ndex=517 |
rumble2=yes|
rumble2attack=2|
rumble2defense=2|
rumble2speed=2|
Pad2=She originally lived in {{DL|Cove Area|Cove Town}} but came to the [[Crag Area]] to see snow. Maybe because she is nervous or excited, she can't sleep well. |
Park2strong= |
Park2weak= |
Conquest=yes |
ConquestAtk=2 |
ConquestSpd=1 |
ConquestDef=2 |
ConquestHP=3 |
ConquestRange=3 |
ConquestMove={{m|Hypnosis}} |
ConquestAbility1={{DL|List of Abilities in Pokémon Conquest|Deep Sleep}} |
ConquestAbility2={{DL|List of Abilities in Pokémon Conquest|Perception}} |
ConquestAbility3={{DL|List of Abilities in Pokémon Conquest|Instinct}} |
ConquestEvo=Evolves into {{p|Musharna}} when its [[link]] is improved while its [[Warrior]] is equipped with a {{evostone|Moon Stone}} |
ConquestLink={{DL|List of Pokémon Conquest characters|Hana}} and {{DL|List of Pokémon Conquest characters|Sadamitsu}}
}}

===Evolution===
{{evobox-2
|pictype=art
|type1=Psychic
|no1=517
|name1=Munna
|type1-1=Psychic
|evo1={{bag|Moon Stone}} {{color2|000|Evolutionary stone#Moon Stone|Moon Stone}}
|no2=518
|name2=Musharna
|type1-2=Psychic}}

===Sprites===
{{Sprite |
type=psychic |
gen=5 |
gender=none |
name=Munna |
ndex=517 |
}}

==Trivia==
[[File:Munna C-Gear skin.png|thumb|A [[C-Gear]] skin featuring Munna]]
* In Generations {{gen|I}} and {{gen|III}}, on {{rt|10|Kanto}}, {{tc|Picnicker}} Carol mentions that she wishes that there were pink Pokémon with floral patterns, a description of which Munna fits.
* Munna is featured in the first [[List of Pokémon Global Link promotions/Skins#C-Gear skins|promotional C-Gear]] skin. It is available by default in Japan, but requires a password internationally.

===Origin===
Munna appears to be based on traditional Japanese incense burners called ''[[wp:Koro (incense burner)|koro]]''. These are used in traditional tea ceremonies, but many styles of ''koro'' have been developed to be used with insect repellent incense. These insect repellent ''koro'' are popularly shaped like a pig and can have patterns painted on them, such as floral patterns. Munna, like {{p|Drowzee}}, also seems to share some inspiration from the myth of the [[wp:Baku (spirit)|baku]], tapir-like creatures that eat dreams.

====Name origin====
Munna may be a combination of 夢 ''mu'' [''{{wp|Kanji#On'yomi (Sino-Japanese reading)|on'yomi}}''] (dream) and ''luna'' (Latin for ''moon'') or 花 ''hana'' (flower). It may also involve ムシャムシャ ''mushamusha'' (onomatopoeia for eating, as it eats dreams), in line with the name of its evolved form, {{p|Musharna}}. Its localized pronunciation, as featured in English media, suggests ''moon'' as a word of origin.

==In other languages==
{{Other languages|type=psychic|type2=psychic
|ja=ムンナ ''Munna''|jameaning=Possibly from {{tt|夢 ''mu''|dream}} [''{{wp|Kanji#On'yomi (Sino-Japanese reading)|on'yomi}}''] and {{tt|''luna''|Latin for 'moon'}} or {{tt|花 ''hana''|flower}}
|de=Somniam|demeaning=From {{tt|''somnium''|Latin for 'dream'}} and {{tt|''mjam!''|yum!}}
|fr=Munna|frmeaning=Same as English/Japanese name
|es=Munna|esmeaning=Same as English/Japanese name
|it=Munna|itmeaning=Same as English/Japanese name
|ko=몽나 ''Mongna''|komeaning=From {{tt|몽 (夢)|dream}} and ''luna''
|zh_cmn=食夢夢 / 食梦梦''Shímèngmèng''|zh_cmnmeaning=Possibly from 食夢 ''shímèng'' ({{m|Dream Eater}}), with the last character repeated.
}}
 

==Related articles==
* [[Fennel's Munna]]


==External links==
{{PokémonPrevNextFoot | prev=Simipour | next=Musharna | prevnum=516 | nextnum=518 | type=Psychic }}
{{-}}
{{Project Pokédex notice}}

[[Category:Pokémon that evolve by evolutionary stone]]
[[Category:Pokémon that evolve using Moon Stone]]

[[it:Munna]]
[[pt:Munna (pokémon)]]

[[de:Somniam]]
[[es:Munna]]
[[fr:Munna]]
[[ja:ムンナ]]
[[pl:Munna]]
[[zh:食梦梦]]

ROM hack

2013-12-15T18:39:20Z

Ericss: Fan games are a different thing. Also removing non-NPOV statements and the incorrect statement ShinyGold being the first remake of Gold/Silver (it wasn't even the first ROM hack that was a GS remake)

'''ROM hacks''', or '''hack ROMs''', '''hack games''' or '''bootlegs''' depending on the circumstances, are video games that have been edited or altered. While many fans distribute hacks of Pokémon games for free over the internet, some people have been known to sell them in the guise of legitimate games. Some of these games are hacked onto the actual game cartridges and sold over the internet on sites such as {{wp|eBay}}.

Due to their nature, there are an uncountable number of hacks available on the Internet, so this article will limit itself to only the most notable ones. It should also be noted that all current {{pmin|Greater China|Chinese language}} Pokémon game cartridges are pirated as there have yet to be any official Chinese language Pokémon games.

==Game Boy and Game Boy Color==
===Pokémon Adventure===
[[File:PA hack screen.jpg|right|thumb|Screenshot from "Pokémon Adventure"]]
Pokémon Adventure is a hack of an existing pirated game called Sonic Adventure 7 for the [[Game Boy Color]]. It has five levels, and the intro sequence consists of a few Japanese [[Pokédex]] screenshots from {{2v2|Gold|Silver}}. Other than the intro, title screen, and ending, the game has almost no relationship with Pokémon, with most of the enemies being from other pirates made by the same company, such as Rockman 8 and Super Mario Special 3. While the game is paused, one can move themselves away from enemies.

===Pokémon Brown===
[[File:Pokemon Brown.png|thumb|left|Pokémon Brown's title screen]]
Pokémon Brown is a hack of Pokémon Red. This hack began production in mid 2002, as a sequel to Koolboyman's "Rated M" ROM hack "Fukémon", titled "Fukémon 2". Finally, on January 16th, 2004, the hack was released to the public. The hack had a complete change of all maps, minor script tweaks and almost all the Pokémon sprites have been changed. Pokémon Brown takes place in the Rijon region.

It should be noted that some of the cities in Brown have a close resemblance to the [[Pokémon Gold and Silver beta#Beta maps|beta maps]] found in {{g|Gold and Silver Versions}}. For example, Botan City slightly resembles the [[Azalea Town]] beta map, Jaeru City resembles the [[Blackthorn City]] beta map, and Castro Valley strongly resembles the [[Olivine City]] beta map.

The author of this hack released an updated version of Brown that was released in April 2009. The remake contains second and fourth generation Pokémon, new areas, several glitch repairs, new features and new additions to the storyline.
{{-}}

===Pokémon Diamond and Jade===
[[File:Fake Diamond start.jpg|right|thumb|Title screen of "Pokémon Diamond"]]

Possibly the most well-known bootleg "Pokémon" games are the notorious Pokémon Diamond and Jade (not to be confused with the official [[Generation IV]] games {{v2|Diamond and Pearl|s}}). In truth, these games were poorly translated versions of a Japanese game known as {{wp|Keitai Denjū Telefang}}. Telefang is divided into two versions: Power and Speed; the Power Version became Pokémon Diamond and the Speed Version became Pokémon Jade. Pokémon Jade is sometimes found on the [[Game Boy Color]] on the same cartridge as {{game|Crystal}}, but could also be found as a standalone cartridge. The hacks had numerous glitches that the original game did not have, such as the inability to load a save properly. The game also contains profanity and swearing, which is absent from all official Pokémon games licensed by [[Nintendo]].

===Pokémon Prism===
[[File:Pokémon Prism Naljo.png|thumb|left|Screenshot of Naljo, Pokémon Prism's Region]]
Pokémon Prism is a hack of {{game3|Gold and Silver|Pokémon Gold|s}} made by Koolboyman, as another entry into his series of hacks, preceded by Pokémon Brown. This hack completely overhauls the original game, and also won [[Pokécommunity]]'s Hack of the Year award in 2007. [http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=227492] It takes place in a new region called Naljo, with new music, Pokémon from the first four generations, new Pokémon types, and more. One feature is to replace the player's sprite with another at a special shop. The game also has crafting systems and the ability to send a Pokémon out of its Poké Ball outside of battle. There are also a few minigames included such as a {{wp|Pachisi}}-type board game. Like many other hacks, Prism is still in progress, with periodic updates being released to the public. Its latest version was released in August 2010.
{{-}}

===Pokémon Vietnamese Crystal===
"Pocket Monsters Crystal Version" (popularly known as Pokémon Vietnamese Crystal) is a bootlegged version of [[Pokémon Crystal]]. Translated from Japanese to Chinese to English, the dialogue in the game (now [[wikipedia:Engrish|Engrish]]) is often nonsensical and unintentionally humorous. All Pokémon, character and location names are similarly badly translated, often resembling romanizations of Chinese transliterations of the Japanese names. This particular hack was made popular by various "[[Let's Play]]" video series on [[wikipedia:YouTube|YouTube]], with the most notable one being by DeliciousCinnamon.

==Game Boy Advance==
===Moemon===
[[File:386 Moemon.png|thumb|right|386 Moemon]]
Moemon (short for "{{wp|Moe (slang)|Moekko}} Monsters") is a hack of Pokémon FireRed that changes all Pokémon into [http://en.wikifur.com/wiki/Gijinka gijinka]. It is a simple change of FireRed, but with additions such as the ability to catch the three [[starter Pokémon|starters]], {{p|Eevee}}, and a mix of both LeafGreen and FireRed Pokémon (thus making it simpler to obtain all Pokémon). The game still receives a fair amount of attention, as a patch was released solely for the FireRed hack that updated both the sprites of the Pokémon as well as their menu sprites, functioning like DLC would for any game.

A ROM hack of Emerald has been released as well. Like the FireRed hack, it's a simple change of Emerald, replacing all Pokémon with ginjika counterparts, however, a few aesthetic changes have been applied to both [[Route 101]] and [[Littleroot Town]], adding many [[puddles]] to the town, and the [[Oran Berry]] has, curiously, been renamed the "Weed Berry", possibly for comedic effect.

Moemon received a short burst of fame when it was posted to gaming site Kotaku in late 2007.[http://kotaku.com/gaming/clip/pokemon-dressed-up-in-moe-332781.php]

===Pokémon Amber===
Pokémon Amber is a hack of {{game3|Ruby and Sapphire|Pokémon Ruby|s}} which sports brand new Pokémon sprites, a brand new region (Sider), and new characters. It is made by the hacker 'Joy', and can be played in Spanish or English. There is a team much like [[Team Rocket]], which is called Team Solaris. Pokémon Amber was released on Whackahackpokemon.com as a beta, Beta 1 (Final). The overworld sprites have also been heavily edited, as has the script of the game. The playable characters are Xander or Ann. The maps have also been edited.

===Pokémon AshGray===
Pokémon AshGray is a modification of FireRed, and directly follows the anime, with the player being stuck with Pikachu, being attacked by a group of Spearow, fighting Team Rocket at the Viridian City Pokémon Center, the Butterfree-Raticate trade on the S.S. Anne, Charizard disobeying the player after evolution, the nurses have been redesigned into Nurse Joys, the Pokémon Centers have redesigned exteriors, and the Nurse Joys all have Chansey. Pikachu, however, stays in its Poké Ball, and Brock and Misty do not travel with the player, though they will run into them from time to time. The game also features the opportunity to travel through the Orange Archipelago and play through the events of the first movie, Mewtwo Strikes Back.

===Pokémon ChaosBlack===
[[File:ChaosBlack start.jpg|right|thumb|Start screen from Pokémon ChaosBlack]]
Another infamous hack is Pokémon ChaosBlack, which is a modification of {{game3|FireRed and LeafGreen|Pokémon FireRed|s}} that was released on the [[Game Boy Advance]]. This game contains many fake Pokémon, including Mewthree. Although it has a reputation as a bootleg cartridge sold illegally, the original creator of the hack released the patch for it onto the Internet. ChaosBlack is infamous for including numerous created Pokémon and harsh language.

The description on the back of some boxes can inform gamers that it is a bootleg, as there is a missing accent on the "e" in "Pokémon". Another large giveaway is the fact that Chaos from the Sonic the Hedgehog games exists on the front cover. Also the game is apparently developed by 'Mewthree Inc.' instead of Nintendo, meaning it couldn't have been endorsed by Nintendo, Pokémon's usual trademark. Despite these obvious flaws, the bootleggers still included a fake Nintendo Seal of Approval on the box and cartridge.

===Pokémon Diamond 2 and Jade 2===
[[File:Pokemon Jade 2 title screen.png‎|right|thumb|Title screen of "Pokémon Jade 2"]]
Similar to the first fake Diamond and Jade games, Diamond 2 and Jade 2 were hacked from {{wp|Keitai Denjū Telefang|Keitai Denjū Telefang 2}}. Also, like Diamond and Jade, the Power Version of Telefang 2 became Pokémon Diamond 2, and the Speed Version became Pokémon Jade 2. They are in Chinese, and their title screens have been altered to poorly drawn Pokémon characters along with the character Dragon from the film ''{{wp|Shrek}}'' (possibly due to her superficial similarity to a {{p|Charizard}}). The similarities between the title screens of this and the original Diamond and Jade (as well as the fact that they have Pokémon names in the first place) suggest that these may be made by the same pirates. Diamond 2 crashes after the title screen, making it unplayable without a save state, and Jade 2 has graphical glitches. There is also a poorly translated English version of the Power Version of Telefang 2 called "Pokémon Ruby," which has no relation to the real one.

===Pokémon Naranja/Orange===
Pokémon Naranja is a {{wp|Spanish}} hack of {{game3|Ruby and Sapphire|Pokémon Ruby|s}} in which the {{player}} plays as either {{Ash}} or [[Misty]] and travels around the [[Orange Archipelago]]. Naranja is a Spanish word which means Orange. {{p|Celebi}} appears on the box art and title screen.

This game is based on the [[Pokémon: Adventures in the Orange Islands|Orange Saga]] in the {{pkmn|anime}}. The game starts after the player had won the [[Indigo League]]. Despite this fact, the player starts with only a Lv. 5 {{p|Pikachu}}. Many characters, plots and events in the Orange Saga are included in the game, such as the [[GS Ball]], Ash's {{AP|Lapras}}, the [[Orange Crew]], the [[Crystal Onix]], the {{p|Golduck}} from ''[[EP091|Bye Bye Psyduck]]'', and [[Ash's Snorlax]].

This game also includes a special feature: the player's character actually speaks during some of the story sequences, which has never been implemented in any official Pokémon game.

The game maker originally planned to release a third beta version before {{wp|Christmas}} in 2005; however, the creator canceled this for an unknown reason. Therefore, the game is currently incomplete.

Naranja has, much like Chaos Black and ShinyGold, also been published in cartridge form and sold as a bootleg game by pirates. This is the only known Pokémon game to ever feature the Orange Islands that was sold.

===Pokémon Quartz===
[[File:Quartz Title Screen.png|thumb|The title screen of Pokémon Quartz]]
Another hack of Pokémon Ruby, released by the author as a patch file intended to be played by {{wp|VisualBoyAdvance|VBA}} users who already owned the Ruby cartridge and had a copy of its ROM image. The game has a great number of spelling and grammatical errors, which result from the hack being translated from Spanish, although the grammar improves throughout the game. The game also contains profanity and adult themes, which are absent from all official Pokémon games. Pokémon Quartz replaced all names and graphics of traditional Pokémon with new, made-up Pokémon, although some of the changes were only cosmetic and did not change learnsets or types. The game takes place in a region known as "Corna", a heavily edited version of Hoenn, and requires the player to navigate a very different series of paths during gameplay. It also been published in cartridge form and sold as a bootleg game.

While the best-known bootleg cartridge as played on the actual GBA contains serious glitches and errors, the current patch file release works well with VBA when the patch is applied to a clean image of an actual Ruby cartridge.

Zorak of Something Awful did a complete [[Let's Play]] [http://lparchive.org/LetsPlay/Pokemon%20Quartz/index.html playthrough of the game], which ended in an interview with the creator of the hack.

A sequel to the game, Pokémon Marble, is in its beta release. This version is a hack of FireRed and has vastly improved grammar and spelling.

===Pokémon Marble===
[[File:Marble battle.png|thumb|right|A battle from Marble version between {{p|Caterpie}} and {{p|Doduo}}'s replacements]]
Pokémon Marble was made as a sequel to Pokémon Quartz, and uses Pokémon FireRed as a base. It has a new Rival, new maps and graphics, a brand new plot and more than 250 fake Pokémon. It takes place 20 years ''after'' Quartz, and starts this time in Lowheaven. Professor Baro reappears and participates in the storyline much more than in Quartz.

===Pokémon ShinyGold===
[[File:Barksh.png|thumb|right|The player at his house, in [[New Bark Town]]]]
[[File:ShinyGold Title Screen.png|thumb|left|Title Screen of Pokémon ShinyGold]]
Pokémon ShinyGold is a total conversion of {{game3|FireRed and LeafGreen|Pokémon FireRed|s}} that turns the game into a {{2v2|Gold|Silver}} [[remake]], much like how FireRed is a remake of {{game3|Red and Blue|Pokémon Red|s}}. As well as illegally releasing the game to ROM communities as a patch, some pirates have copied the hack (as with many others) to Game Boy Advance cartridges to illegally sell the game and trick gamers who genuinely think that it is an official Pokémon game. In response to this, the game's creator, Zel, placed a note at the beginning of the game saying that the game should be returned if the player paid for it. The game features some changes to the storyline, like the fact that a new Trainer, named Carlos, is introduced, a Trainer with which the player keeps fighting during the gameplay. It has also introduced features that allow Pokémon that normally evolve via time-based events or trade to evolve by other methods that are more easily available to the player. For example, {{p|Scyther}} evolves into {{p|Scizor}} with a {{evostone|Moon Stone}} rather than by its normal method, trading while holding a {{DL|Type-enhancing item|Metal Coat}}. The game also features many events which were not available in the original game, as well as many [[Generation III]] Pokémon being found in some areas.
[[File:Carlos ShinyGold.png|thumb|center|A battle against Carlos]]

===Touhou Puppet Play or Touhoumon===
Touhoumon is a combination of the Japanese shoot'em up series [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki Touhou Project] and the Pokémon games. The (Official) hack is for FireRed while there is a fan derivative that extends to Emerald. There are both English and Japanese versions. The Japanese versions tend to be further ahead in terms of development.

Almost every Pokémon has been replaced with Touhou characters. The music has also been remixed between the original Pokémon themes with Touhou character boss and stage themes. Certain fan derivative versions of the game uses the physical-special split from Generation IV. In the newest official Japanese version, 1.8, the types and evolution styles have been changed as well.

===Pokémon Uranium===
[[File:Pokémon Uranium screenshot.jpg|thumb|right|Screenshot from Uranium]]
Pokémon Uranium appears to be a highly modified version of Pokémon FireRed and LeafGreen. It is distributed under the name "Uranium Team" and features many fake Pokémon that replace previous sprites. It is not known to have been sold via cartridge, only by ROM. The game features a new region known as "Tandor", a tropical archipelago somewhat similar to Hoenn. The player's starter is determined by a quiz the local professor gives them. Similar to Gold and Silver's PokéGear, Uranium features an application called "PokéPod"--which has all the programs contained in the Pokégear.

Pokémon Uranium has been known to distribute their games as early as 2008, but an official date is unknown.

There is also an executable version of the game.

==Nintendo DS==
===Pokémon Blaze Black and Volt White===
Pokémon Blaze Black and Volt White Versions are hacks of {{game|Black and White|s}} made by Drayano, first released in late March 2011. The concept of the games is generally the same, with no changes to the story or mechanics. The main changes made by these games is that it is possible to obtain all 649 Pokémon in the National Pokédex without connecting to another game. All the legendaries that do not appear normally in the original now have a small chance of appearing in certain locations (for example, {{p|Zapdos}} has a 1% chance of showing up on the bottom level of [[Chargestone Cave]]). In addition, many evolution methods were changed, mainly ones that involved trading as a requirement (the [[Magmarizer]] and [[Electirizer]] are now usable items that evolve {{p|Magmar}} and {{p|Electabuzz}} respectively, in the same manner [[Evolutionary stone|Evolutionary Stones]] do). The hacks also implement a level curve to make the game more challenging, and certain Pokémon have had minor type, learnset, and ability changes to fit the increased difficulty ({{p|Serperior}} was given the Dragon type in addition to its normal Grass type). Most Pokémon, upon being obtained, have a chance of having their Dream World abilities. Finally, some moves have undergone type, power, and accuracy changes, again to fit the increased difficulty.

===Pokémon Blaze Black 2 and Volt White 2===
In October 2012, Drayano continued his project into the sequels of Blaze Black and Volt White, making Pokémon Blaze Black 2 and Volt White 2. The overall concept of the game stays the same, with a few minor improvements. Rather than the normally unobtainable legendaries appearing in the wild, they now appear as interactive encounters after meeting certain requirements (for example, {{p|Zapdos}} now appears outside the entrance to Chargestone Cave after speaking to a male [[Veteran (Trainer class)|Veteran]] inside [[Humilau City]]'s Pokémon Center). These games also take advantage of the [[Key System]] by giving the player the Easy Mode and Challenge Mode keys before even choosing a starter Pokémon, so the whole game can be played in Challenge or Easy Mode from the start, no matter which version is being played. Also, the player is given both the Iceberg Key and the Iron Key immediately after defeating/catching {{p|Regirock}}. In addition, new features are added, such as a house in [[Nacrene City]] in which the player can have rematches with any of the Unova [[Gym Leader]]s, the ability to battle Gym Leaders from [[Hoenn]] in the overworld, and a battle against [[Hilbert]] or [[Hilda]] in the [[Nature Preserve]].

==NES==
===Pokémon 4-in-1===

Pokémon 4-in-1 is a pirated NES game which included four mini-games, "PicaClick", "PicaSlot", "PicaDance" (called 'PiraDance' in game) and Pac-man. "Pika" is notably misspelled. PicaClick is a [[wp:Collapse (video game)|Collapse]] clone featuring {{p|Pikachu}}. {{wp|Pac-man}} was replaced with a Pikachu face and the ghosts with {{p|Vileplume}}. PicaSlot is a slot machine mini-game including Pikachu, {{p|Marill}}, {{p|Clefable}}, {{p|Psyduck}}, {{p|Chikorita}}, (7), and apple (with worm) icons. PiraDance involves the player stopping Marill and {{p|Cleffa}} on spinning Poké Balls, to the beat of one of three songs, "butterfly", "Babylon" or "sunrise". It used the animated sprite of the title screen Pikachu from {{game|Yellow}} in the background.

==External links==
*[http://wikifang.meowcorp.us/wiki/Wikifang Wikifang - A wiki about Telefang, the game that became Pokémon Jade and Diamond] (includes information on the fakes)
{{-}}
{{Project Fandom notice}}

[[Category:Pokémon meta]]
[[Category:Games]]
[[Category:Fandom]]

[[fr:Jeu hacké]]
[[it:Hack ROM]]
[[pl:Hack]]

Casey (anime)

2013-11-06T10:02:21Z

Ericss:

{{CharInfobox|
color={{yellow color}} |
corecolor={{yellow color light}} |
bordercolor=444444 |
name=Casey |
jname=ナナコ |
tmname=Nanako |
slogan=no |
image=Casey.png|
size=250px|
caption= |
gender=Female |
colors=yes |
eyes=Brown |
hair=Purple |
hometown=[[New Bark Town]] |
region=[[Johto]] |
relatives= Unnamed father and grandfather |
trainer=yes |
trainerclass={{pkmn|Trainer}} |
game=no |
leader=no |
team=no |
brain=no |
anime=yes |
epnum=EP118 |
epname=The Double Trouble Header |
enva=[[Kerry Williams]]|
java=Nina Kumagaya
}}

'''Casey''' (Japanese: '''ナナコ''' ''Nanako'') is a nominally recurring {{pkmn|Trainer}} in the [[Pokémon anime]].

==History==

Casey first appeared as a novice trainer in ''[[EP118|The Double Trouble Header]]'', where {{Ash}}, {{an|Misty}} and {{an|Brock}} witnessed her capturing a {{p|Rattata}}. Soon after her appearance, Casey battled against Ash. Despite her overconfidence, she was easily defeated by Ash, who used just his {{AP|Charizard}}
After her defeat, Casey was tricked by {{TRT}} into believing that Ash had cheated, prompting her to face Ash again, this time battling his {{AP|Pikachu}} using her {{TP|Casey|Chikorita}}. However, the battle was interrupted by [[Jessie]], [[James]], and {{MTR}}, who tried to capture Chikorita and Pikachu. In the end, Ash and Casey united to defeat Team Rocket and became friends.

She appeared in a flashback in ''[[EP126|The Chikorita Rescue]]''.

She returned in person in ''[[EP161|The Bug Stops Here]]'', where Ash competed against her in the [[Bug-Catching Contest]]. She decided to win at all costs with her Chikorita, which almost caused Ash's defeat. {{p|Chikorita}} evolved to defeat Team Rocket more than once. Before leaving, Ash presented her with the Beedrill he was allowed to keep because he won the competition, because of her admiration for yellow and black striped Pokémon.
[[File:Park Ball anime.png|right|thumb|Casey catching a Pokémon]]

Casey returned in ''[[EP261|Here's Lookin 'at You, Elekid!]]'', where she revealed that her Bayleef had evolved into a Meganium. She also tried to catch a wild {{p|Elekid}}, the pre-evolution of her favorite Pokémon {{p|Electabuzz}}, and with hard work she managed to capture it,

In ''[[SS011|A Date With Delcatty]]'', she visited [[Cerulean City]] in the [[Kanto]] region to watch a baseball game with the Starmie team against the Electabuzz team. She met up with Misty and both united to defeat [[Butch]] and [[Cassidy]] who were trying to steal a {{p|Delcatty}} belonging to [[Georgio]].

Her latest appearance was in ''[[SS017|Those Darn Electabuzz!]]'' where she helped her idol [[Corey Demario]] regain his confidence and his {{p|Charizard}}, '''Don''' (Jp: '''ドン''' ''Don''), regain his abilities to battle and fly.

== Character ==
[[File:SS017.png|left|200px|thumb|Casey's team]]
She and her family are fans of the {{p|Electabuzz}} [[baseball]] team, and she loves {{OBP|Pokémon|species}} with the team's colors, yellow with black stripes. She [[Starter Pokémon|started]] with a {{TP|Casey|Chikorita|Meganium}}, which she received from [[Professor Elm]] of [[New Bark Town]].

In the original Japanese version, Casey speaks with a {{wp|Kansai dialect}}, in which natives to {{wp|Osaka}}, {{wp|Japan}} speak. Adding to this is Casey's love of the Electabuzz baseball team, an analogue to the real world Osaka baseball team, the {{wp|Hanshin Tigers}}. Not only is there a similarity in both Electabuzz and tigers being striped animals, but the Hanshin Tigers are known for having a very loyal fanbase.

Casey has been compared to {{Ash}} in his early days of [[Pokémon training]]. However, they have different styles of training, and different tastes in Pokémon.

==Pokémon==
This listing is of Casey's Pokémon as of ''[[SS017|Those Darn Electabuzz!]]'':
===On hand===
{{TrainerPoké
|main=yes
|trainer=Casey
|pkmn=Meganium
|stage1=Chikorita
|stage2=Bayleef
|type1=Grass
|img=Casey Meganium.png
|epnum=EP118
|epname=The Double Trouble Header
|vajp=Satomi Kōrogi
|vaen=Satomi Kōrogi
|desc=Meganium is Casey's first and primary Pokémon. She obtained it as a Chikorita from [[Professor Elm]]'s lab. It first appeared in ''[[EP118|The Double Trouble Header]]''. It evolved into Bayleef in ''[[EP161|The Bug Stops Here]]'', and again into Meganium some time before ''[[EP261|Here's Lookin' at You, Elekid!]]''.}}

{{TrainerPoké
|trainer=Casey
|pkmn=Pidgey
|type1=Normal
|type2=Flying
|img=Casey Pidgey.png
|epnum=EP118
|epname=The Double Trouble Header
|desc=Casey's {{p|Pidgey}} was seen for the first time in Casey's {{pkmn|battle}} with {{Ash}} in ''[[EP118|The Double Trouble Header]]'', her debut appearance. It was easily defeated by [[Ash's Charizard]]. It was also later used to battle against {{TRT}}.

It is likely that Pidgey, like Rattata, was chosen as a reflection of Casey being a beginning Trainer at the time. While Meganium, Beedrill, and Elekid are often seen out of their [[Poké Ball]]s, Pidgey has not been heard of since Casey's debut episode.

Pidgey's only known move is {{m|Quick Attack}}.}}

{{TrainerPoké
|trainer=Casey
|pkmn=Rattata
|type1=Normal
|img=Casey Rattata.png
|epnum=EP118
|epname=The Double Trouble Header
|desc=Casey's {{p|Rattata}} was seen for the first time during Casey's debut appearance in ''[[EP118|The Double Trouble Header]]'' as a [[wild Pokémon]]. She battled it with her {{TP|Casey|Chikorita|Meganium}} and then {{pkmn2|caught}} it. Rattata was soon called out during Casey's battle against Ash, where it was quickly defeated by his {{AP|Charizard}}. It was also later used to battle against Team Rocket. It reappeared in a flashback in ''[[EP126|The Chikorita Rescue]]''.

It is likely that Rattata, like Pidgey, was chosen as a reflection of Casey being a beginning Trainer at the time. While Meganium, Beedrill, and Elekid are often seen out of their Poké Balls, Rattata has not been heard of since Casey's debut episode.

Rattata's only known move is {{m|Tackle}}.}}

{{TrainerPoké
|main=yes
|trainer=Casey
|pkmn=Beedrill
|type1=Bug
|type2=Poison
|img=Casey Beedrill.png
|epnum=EP161
|epname=The Bug Stops Here
|vajp=Shin'ichirō Miki
|vaen=Shin'ichirō Miki
|desc=Beedrill was initially caught by {{Ash}} in the [[Bug-Catching Contest]] in ''[[EP161|The Bug Stops Here]]''. Ash gave it to Casey afterwards because of her love for yellow and black-striped Pokémon.}}

{{TrainerPoké
|trainer=Casey
|pkmn=Elekid
|type1=Electric
|img=Casey Elekid.png
|epnum=EP261
|epname=Here's Lookin' at You, Elekid!
|vajp=Yūji Ueda
|vaen=Yūji Ueda
|desc={{p|Elekid}} first appeared as a wild Pokémon where it interrupted a picnic that {{Ash}} and {{ashfr}} were having. Casey came by and noticed the Elekid after defeating {{TRT}} the second time in the episode. As Elekid is the pre-evolution of her {{p|Electabuzz|favorite mascot}} of the [[baseball]] team, Casey challenged it to a battle with her {{TP|Casey|Meganium}}. Even though it put up a great fight, it was no match for Meganium's strength. As a result, Casey was able to catch Elekid. Since Elekid was caught, {{AP|Larvitar}} felt sad as it wasn't able to see its newly made friend. Casey promised to take care of her newly captured Pokémon and friend. Elekid appeared next to Casey and Meganium when Casey said goodbye to Ash and his friends singing the song of the Electabuzz team.

Elekid maded a cameo in ''[[EP263|Address Unown!]]'' where it was shown in Larvitar's memories. It also appeared in ''[[SS011|A Date With Delcatty]]'' where it battled [[Georgio]]'s {{p|Delcatty}} and lost, and in ''[[SS017|Those Darn Electabuzz]]'' where it helped Casey and her other Pokémon to try to resolve a phobia of {{type|Fire}} Pokémon.

Elekid's known moves are {{m|Thunderbolt}} and {{m|Thunder Punch}}.}}

===Temporary===
{{TrainerPoké
|trainer=Casey
|pkmn=Weedle
|type1=Bug
|type2=Poison
|img=Casey Weedle.png
|epnum=EP161
|epname=The Bug Stops Here
|vajp=
|vaen=Eric Stuart
|desc=Casey caught Weedle at the [[Bug-Catching Contest]] in ''[[EP161|The Bug Stops Here]]''. It was released under the rules of the contest and as such very little is known about it.

None of Weedle's moves are known.}}

=== Dub only ===
Casey mentioned that she has {{p|Rapidash}} and {{p|Magmar}} in the dub of ''[[SS017|Those Darn Electabuzz!]]''. However, no reference to those Pokémon is made in the Japanese version.

==Badges==
* Four unknown Badges (prior to ''[[EP261|Here's Lookin' at You, Elekid!]]'')

==Pokémon competitions==
*[[Bug-Catching Contest]]

==Voice actors==
{{vatable|color={{yellow color}}|bordercolor=444444
|ja=熊谷ニーナ ''Nina Kumagaya''
|en=[[Kerry Williams]]
|it=Laura Brambilla
|nl=Niki Romijn ([[EP118]]-[[EP161]]) Ineborg Wieten ([[EP261]])
|he=טליה ברקאי ''Talya Barkai''
|pt_br=Luciana Baroli ([[EP118]]-[[EP261]]) Gilmara Sanches ([[SS011]], [[SS017]])
|es_eu=Isacha Mengíbar ([[EP118]]-[[EP261]]) Sandra Jara ([[SS011]], [[SS017]])
|es_la=Rommy Mendoza ([[EP118]]-[[EP261]]) Gaby Ugarte ([[SS011]]) Georgina Sánchez ([[SS017]])}}

==In the games==
===[[Pokémon Zany Cards]]===
[[File:Zany Cards Casey Duplica.png|thumb|Casey in Pokémon Zany Cards]]
Casey appears, along with [[Duplica]], as the Stage 3 opponent of Special Seven mode.

====Quotes====
*Before battle
:''"It's me, Casey! Fan of ELECT-A-BUZZ!! Our team was in the cellar, but we'll be champs this season! Let's get this series started!"''

*During battle
:*Using a card
::''"Curve ball misses!"''
::''"Time to rally, team!"''
::''"Try this pitch!"''
::''"It's the ninth inning!"''
:*Using Pikachu
::''"I like Pikachu!"''
:*Using Counter
::''"Game-winning homer!"''
:*Drawing a card
::''"Keep an eye on the ball.''
::''"Never give up! Never!"''
:*Hit
::''"Hey! Nice hit!"''
::''"Great pitching staff!"''
:*Hit with Jigglypuff
::''"Zzz... World champ..."''
:*Hit with Reverse
::''"Cheater! Base on balls."''

*After battle

:*Second or third
::''"I'm out!"''
:*When defeated
::''"Oh no! A losing streak!"''


==Trivia==
* In ''[[EP118|The Double Trouble Header]]'', Casey manages to catch {{p|Pidgey|the}} {{p|Rattata|two}} Pokémon that Ash [[EP001|first encountered]] on his journey.
* Casey is the only Trainer who was given a Pokémon by Ash.
* Casey may be a reference to the "Mighty Casey" from the poem "{{wp|Casey at the Bat| Casey at the Bat}}" written in 1888 by Ernest Thayer. In the poem, Casey is an overconfident baseball player who believes he can win the game, but strikes out like Casey does against Ash when she challenges him to a battle.

==Names==
{| class="roundy" style="float:left; background: #{{electric color}}; border: 3px solid #444"
|- style="text-align:center"
! style="{{roundytl|5px}}" | Language
! Name
! style="{{roundytr|5px}}" | Origin
|- style="background:#FFF;"
| Japanese
| ナナコ ''Nanako''
| From 七子 ''seventh child''.
|- style="background:#FFF;"
| English, German
| Casey
| From the poem "{{wp|Casey at the Bat}}", also meant to originally be the name for [[Ash Ketchum]]
|- style="background:#FFF;"
| French
| Cathy
|
|- style="background:#FFF;"
| {{tt|Spanish|Iberian}}
| Vanesa{{tt|*|EP118, 126}} / Casey
|
|- style="background:#FFF;"
| Korean
| 나진 ''Najin''
|
|- style="background:#FFF;"
| Chinese
| 奈奈 ''Nàinài''
| From the first part of her Japanese name.
|}
{{-}}
{{Casey's Pokémon}} 
{{Animecharacters}} 
{{Project Anime notice|no}}

[[Category:Anime characters]]

[[de:Casey]]
[[fr:Cathy (Johto)]]
[[it:Casey (anime)]]
[[ja:ナナコ]]
[[zh:奈奈]]

Talk:Glitch Pokémon

2013-10-29T23:32:25Z

Ericss: /* Harmless */

==Glitch==
Isn't this the exact same thing as [[Glitch]]???? [[User:Theryguy512|MERRY]] [[User talk:Theryguy512|CHRISTMAS]] 02:17, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

No. A glitch is the general term for an error or programming oversight in a video game. A glitch Pokémon is an error or programming oversight in a Pokémon video game that can be raised, taught attacks, and battled. [[User:Missingno. Master|Missingno. Master]] 02:19, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
:Okey Dokey! [[User:Theryguy512|MERRY]] [[User talk:Theryguy512|CHRISTMAS]] 11:52, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

==Harmless==
Glitch Pokémon (In RBY anyway) are not overall harmless--they may corrupt the save file (possibly permanently) upon ''encountering'' them. Capturing them is harmless, some 'dex entries will freeze the game, but the only danger is seeing them in-battle. At least, according to this guide on GameFAQs.
http://www.gamefaqs.com/portable/gameboy/file/367023/38434
Any thoughts on this? [[User:Billybobfred|Billybobfred]] 07:26, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Well, I do have a thought on this. I'm afraid I might get blocked for wording it exactly as it lays out in my mind, though, so here's the general gist of it: The FAQ LIES! Glitch Pokémon are completely HARMLESS! Its the moves some of them can know that do the damage ([[.4]] starting with the move commonly nicknamed {{m|Super Glitch}} has gained it a horrible reputation, given Super Glitch's exceptionally undesirable effect of, worst case scenario, destroying your saved game). Now don't get me wrong, this FAQ is astonishingly knowelegeble on many 1st generation glitches, but the claims that [[MissingNo.|Missingno.]] can destroy the game? Absolutely false, even moreso for [['M (00)|'M]] and everything else. --
''[[Glitch Pokémon]]. [[Pokémon|Official Pokémon]]. There is no real difference between the two. [[User talk:Missingno. Master|In my opinion]], the two should be considered equal!-- quoted by [[User:Missingno. Master|Missingno]][[User:Missingno. Master/The Order of the Glitch|.]] [[User:Missingno. Master|Master]]

::Well, it's tecnically the Glithces/Glitch Pokémon that have the moves, so they are dangerous. --'''[[User:Theryguy512|Theryguy]][[User talk:Theryguy512|5]][[User:Theryguy512/Contribution Page|1]][[User:Theryguy512/Similarities|2]]''' 11:50, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, the capslock really convinced me that Gunbladelad's cartridge imploded on its own. Of course glitch Pokemon are 100% harmless. Silly question-- how many times have you encountered one of them on an original cartridge? Just wondering. [[User:Billybobfred|Billybobfred]] 01:54, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

:Me? Multiple times. I have a team on Blue of .4, A, LM4, Missingno., 'M, and h POKé. I have an entire PC box full of Missingno.. I have multiple Kangaskhan, all evolved from 'M. I have ANOTHER .4 rotting away in my PC. And both .4 no longer know Super Glitch, and are level 100, and one of them is one of my main battling Pokémon. And don't forget- RBY are old. These days, although people are no longer so gullible as to swallow this crap without question, RBY cartridges tend to conk out due to old age. Everyone, ask yourselves this; if your Red version deleted itself right after you caught a Tauros, would you run around squawking that Tauros kills games? Didn't think so. - ''unsigned comment from [[User:Missingno. Master|Missingno. Master]] ([[User talk:Missingno. Master|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Missingno._Master|contribs]])'' 19:08, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

::The Missingno. article claims that "Capturing Missingno. in the Game Boy Tower in Pokémon Stadium may cause the cartridge to become unable to be played with Pokémon Stadium". Is that incorrect? - [[User:Ericss|Ericss]] ([[User talk:Ericss|talk]]) 23:32, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

==Other Glitches?==
I don't know if I should have asked this here, but it seemed like the right place. What about the Glitches that Trainers have when you try to encounter them via Gameshark? There is a way to capture those glitches without the use of the Capture Trainer's Pokémon Code, so should these glitches have pages? --[[User:Boxman|Boxman]] 15:34, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

I concur - a bit late. [[User:Mattiuscn|Mattiuscn]] 17:12, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

== Notability criteria, redux ==

Over at [[Bulbapedia_talk:Project_GlitchDex#Notability_criteria|Project GlitchDex]] I recall that we decided that [[Generation I]] glitch Pokémon are "notable" if they can be caught without using a Gameshark, so we kept the number of articles at the 24 listed in the table here. However, recently I'm seeing articles like $ and ...... appear. These glitches cannot be caught in-game without a cheat device. Now, I'm not for deleting them per se, but y'all do realize that there's about a hundred more out there, right? '''<code>[[User:Abwayax|abwayax]] ([[User talk:Abwayax|t]]/[[Special:Contributions/Abwayax|c]])</code>''' 02:35, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
:I would say that those are the only real "glitch Pokémon." They are glitches because the player is not supposed to be able to encounter them throughout normal gameplay. However, anything that requires an Action Replay or similar device is not a glitch pokémon, because the pokémon can not be encountered without cheating. True "glitch pokémon" are the ones from the Mew Glitch and Missingno glitch in gen 1, and the bad egg in gen 4, because apparently they can be encountered in random patches of grass that appear when one is tweaking. To put this in perspective, if I entered a bunch of random numbers/letters into my action replay, started Pokémon Diamond, and the game froze, that would not be a glitch. [[User:Red.Tide|Red.Tide]] 01:27, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

::He did not mean the glitch pokémon encounterable by 'random codes' but simply the Glitch Pokémon that ''do'' have their own index number. Some of those Pokémon have data which is so invalid that they crash the game when encountered via the mew trick or correspond to trainers instead; but they still exist within the game. Take Arceus, he was cheat-only when Diamond and Pearl first came out but he still had an index number and still existed within the game. Like 255-151= 104 glitch Pokémon with actual index numbers diamond and pearl have 65536-493 Pokémon with index numbers but most that don't crash the game are varients of 'blank', DP hybrids or Egg, Bad egg. Surely you could change a Pokémon's name with a code to call it 'Cidoof' but that would technically be bidoof but if you use a party modifier code those glitches you get such as 'O' in Generation I are unique. --[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] 14:20, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

:::I agree. A Glitch Pokémon is one that is found in the game that was not supposed to be there. Those that can not be obtained without a cheating device are still within the code of the game, but they aer not supposed to be there. Ergo, they are glitch Pokémon. [[User:Mattiuscn|Mattiuscn]] 17:33, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Um, I think that there is a DP box for Platinum With a slightly different appearance than on Diamond And Pearl could Someone please help me post it? it has the ability to corrupt data so be carful, you need action replay to find. I believe viewing pokedex Data has potency to freeze game so be careful, thanks. 15:41, 1 October 2009 (UTC) [[User:Tanya3140|Tanya3140]] 11:40,1 October 2009

== Type effectiveness ==

I've been looking through different glitch Pokemon, and I've noticed that the type effectiveness boxes display both the dark and steel types. They are both under normal effectiveness for every Pokemon, regardless of whether they would have affected it otherwise, likely due to the fact that they do not exist in generation 1. Is it necessary to even include them in the list?--[[User:Skaisdead|Skaisdead]] 00:07, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
:Use {{template|RBY type effectiveness}} instead of the {{template|Type effectiveness}}. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 01:15, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

== Uh? (Glitch Rhydon) ==
Is it actually a glitchy Rhydon.. or is it a completely different glitch that turns into a Rhydon upon capture (like many other glitch Pokémon)? And if the 8F Glitch's page is being questioned about its notability... well, is this notable? Since I'm assuming it's not actually in the data and is just a random glitch that appears because someone screwed with the memory. :| →''[[User:Tina|'''T'''inā]]'' [[User talk:Tina|♫]][[Special:Contributions/Tina|★]] 00:40, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
:It actually is a glitch rhydon that shows up as a rhydon when fighting it.[[User:1ted59|1ted59]] 19:58, 9 October 2009 (UTC)--

==More Glitches==
[http://glitchcity.info/glitchdex/?acquire=legit Glitch city's list of "obtainable without Gameshark"].
We have documented most of these, but it seems that there are a few more that we don't have. I'll make some, but if everyone helps it will be easier. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|Snorlax]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|Monster]] 08:25, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

== Gen: V glitch pokemon. ==

I don't have a copy of Black/White and I can't read japanese but I AM intrested in glitch pokemon so if anyone finds anyone please post it on my talk page.--[[User:Celibi25|Celibi25]] 15:50, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
::View your talk page. --[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] 16:10, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

== Bad clone page ==

Ok. We really should have a page for Bad clones. My idea is to first have everyone willing try to get a bad clone on their Gold/Silver/Crystal game and try to get a screenshot. With everyone in project glitchdex I'm positive that within a week or two someone will be able to upload a screenshot.
Here is a new link to the page. [[Bad clone]] The only problem is that we need to get rid of the redirect to the Celibi egg trick...--[[User:Celibi25|Celibi25]] 02:56, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
:If you wish to make an article for bad clones, you can just edit over the redirect [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Bad_clone&redirect=no here]. And while there are many participants signed up for Project GlitchDex, it is a very inactive project. I think that if you explain exactly what a bad clone actually is, it could be a good page. However, if the page is poor, it will likely just be turned back into a redirect. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 06:48, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

== Needs New Pokemon ==

You should add 'v to this list. {{unsigned|DrBrock}}
:Sorry if this is old (no timestamp added, which is a second argument to <nowiki>{{unsigned}}</nowiki>), but I don't think there are really any new known entries for GenV (if that's what you were asking) (at least not yet). [[User:TruePikachu|--TruePikachu]] 01:11, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
::There actually is a Gen V glitch Poke, but I'm not sure if it counts, as it's only found through hacking. I encountered it, caught it, and ran some major studies on it... As a matter of fact, I could have a decent article on it if I needed to... But again, it's only encountered through hacking, so I'm not sure if it can be classified as a "Glitch Pokemon"... {{unsigned|Jhuyu26}}
:::Even if it can only be seen by hacking, I believe it should still be added. Anyway, the big reason I'm posting here is that I've found (what I believe are) a number of glitch Pokemon in White 2, while messing around with a wild modifier. I can supply the whole code I'm using, if anyone has difficulty replicating this, but the one's I've seen occupy hex slots around AAA. [[User:Anaphaxaton| Anaphaxaton]] 17:34 28 October 2012 UTC
::::To answer the original question, [['v]] is a Generation I glitch that hadn't been added to the template, having nothing to do Generation V. [[-----#In Generation V]] is the only glitch we have. All glitches in Generation V are notable, even ones that need AR, but I don't think they are real because [[List of Pokémon by index number (Generation V)]] states that after Genesect is -----, then Bulbasaur around and around. --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 17:43, 28 October 2012 (UTC)
:::::No, it goes around for long time, but eventually the code doesn't even correspond to Pokemon. For example, the code

94000130 FFFB0000
B2000024 00000000
C0000000 0000002F
00036B04 00000---
DC000000 00000004
D2000000 00000000

:::::gives you a wild Prop C1. Example; [http://i.picresize.com/images/2012/10/28/gaOxH.jpg] [[User:Anaphaxaton| Anaphaxaton]] 20:10, 28 October 2012
::::::What index number is that? This will be '''great''' information for the index number page. But its not technically a glitch... --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 22:49, 28 October 2012 (UTC)
:::::::Bleh, jpegs... use pngs. They don't reduce the image quality. --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 22:55, 28 October 2012 (UTC)
::::::::My apologies. I tested a similar code in the original Black & White, & just encountered glitch Unown & then Bulbasaur & whatnot. As far as I can tell though, in Black & White 2, after Genesect, there're a couple eggs with incorrect graphics [http://i.picresize.com/images/2012/10/28/JKo9M.png] in 28A & 28B, & then you move directly into encountering the scenery, trainers, other miscellaneous items, & a few things that simply crash the game when they would appear. Anyone with the game & a cheating device that can run the Gameshark code above can test this, I replaced the portion of code in my above post that I've been manipulating with dashes. [[User:Anaphaxaton| Anaphaxaton]] 00:57, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
:::::::::Can you draw up a table with their index and their name/sprite? You also might want to test on the actual hardware if possible. --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 01:40, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
::::::::::Yeah, I can have it done in a day or so easy. You want I should put it put it a format the site can read as a proper table & just post it here? [[User:Anaphaxaton| Anaphaxaton]] 04:20, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
(reset indent)Yes, that would be a great idea. Where is the last Genesect anyway? Do you need to know how to make a table? --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 04:28, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
::It does cycle back through somewhere, there's a Genesect at A89 that I've found, & it apparently proceeds the same as above both backward & forward from there. I can see the format from looking a random table somewhere on the site, so that shouldn't be any problem. [[User:Anaphaxaton| Anaphaxaton]] 04:49, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
:::What does "it apparently proceeds the same as above both backward & forward from there" mean? --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 04:56, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
::::Please note that, assuming nothing has changed, Bulbapedia does not include information on glitches which are exclusively encountered through the use of cheating devices. [[User:OwnageMuch|OwnageMuch]] ([[User talk:OwnageMuch|talk]]) 09:15, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
:::::This is now "which index number are the Pokéstar Studios Pokémon?" Since that's true, why don't you ask someone to delete [[- (glitch Pokémon)]], [[? (glitch Pokémon)]], [[Bad Egg]], and [[Generation IV hybrids]]? --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 15:47, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
::::::Do your results match [[User talk:Abcboy/PKSTAR|this]]? --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 00:55, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
:::::::Because Bulbapedia seems to handle glitch validity in an inconsistent way, and I have no jurisdiction to remove content that has been added. I believe the original reason for such a guideline was to prevent masses of speculation around cheating on glitch articles, and the large number of glitch Pokémon that cannot be found in RBY without cheating (although, I think now the Johto Guard Glitch might allow them to be found anyway?). [[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|SnorlaxMonster]] would be a good person to contact on this, if he's still around. [[User:OwnageMuch|OwnageMuch]] ([[User talk:OwnageMuch|talk]]) 06:13, 2 November 2012 (UTC)
::::::::He's on hiatus. He'll be back in a few weeks or so. --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 18:41, 2 November 2012 (UTC)
:::::::::Pokéstar Studios opponents are not glitch Pokémon. [[- (glitch Pokémon)]] stays because [[óË e Ái]] is the same thing and can be encountered legitimately (I need to get around to merging those) and [[Bad Egg]] is a very major error handler that needs a page. [[? (glitch Pokémon)]], [[Ten question marks]], and [[Generation IV hybrid]] really only exist because they have been there for ages. I suppose they help with [[List of Pokémon by index number]], but they could just as easily be on some "Cheating-exclusive glitch Pokémon" page rather than having their own. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 14:48, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

== Which glitches cause save data corruption? ==
Which are the glitches that cause save data corruption?
* Specifically pokemon capturing / clone glitches.
[[User:Charzd|Charzd]] 21:18, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
: Glitches (but not glitch Pokémon) like the [[ZZAZZ glitch]] and if you're unlucky save corruption in general, this ''might'' also include messing with [[Super Glitch (move)|Super Glitch]] in boxes (from what happened to me in one occasion), and maybe encountering in the wild 'normal' Missingno. on Yellow (Fossil/Ghost Missingno. are still safe though and duplicate your items like they would on Red/Blue, so if you want to encounter Missingno. use them or if you want a normal 'Missingno.', just trade one over from Red/Blue) though I haven't ever had Yellow Missingno. erase the save file, and only freeze the game. The specifics behind Super Glitch and how they affect the save aren't really known, and it doesn't mean that they will, though I'd try to avoid Super Glitch as it can be a pain to get rid of and isn't really practical.

:There aren't any glitch Pokémon by themselves capable of wiping your save in English Red/Blue, only freezing the game, however exclusively to {{2v2|Red|Green}} some glitch Pokémon such as 'normal' Missingno. (but not the fossil/ghost which are safe) and 'M's equivalent in {{2v2|Red|Green}} (though the [[Old man glitch]] does not work in Red/Green, meaning 'M's equivalent is probably not possible to be encountered directly in the wild) will consistently do that when you encounter them in the wild directly. Also of note is that when trading between English Red/Blue and Japanese Red/Green, the save file on Japanese Red/Green tends to get erased but the English Red/Blue remains intact with a glitch Pokémon. --[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] 10:34, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

== Which glitch pokemon is this? ==

It comes up as "<glitched box> wants to fight!" before freezing the entire game. Here are pictures. . . The second one gives some letters. [http://www.imageshack.us/photo/my-images/812/glitchwantstofight.png/] [http://imageshack.us/f/694/ssfb.png/] [[User:Rhodochrosite|Rhodochrosite]] 23:40, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

== Excellent article about the mechanics of glitch Pokémon ==

I just found this excellent article on Smogon: http://www.smogon.com/smog/issue27/glitch

It explains exactly how various bytes in the games' ROM correspond to the data of glitch Pokémon, meaning that anyone with a hex editor and a legitimate copy of the ROM can determine the exact learnset, evolution data, catch rate, etc. of any glitch Pokémon. This could be very handy for filling out some of the incomplete data here. [[User:Blueapple128|Blueapple128]] ([[User talk:Blueapple128|talk]]) 00:49, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Talk:In-battle effect item

2013-09-06T02:00:43Z

Ericss: /* King's Rock */ new section

== Iron Ball ==

Why is there a point of having an '''Iron Ball'''? The only thing that makes it useful is that it gives the most power on the [[move]] {{m|Fling}}... [[User:Tesh|Tesh]] 12:26, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
:{{m|Trick}} also combos nicely with it. --[[User:DarkfireTaimatsu|DarkfireTaimatsu]] 19:28, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
::You could have the Pokémon holding it use {{m|Trick Room}} and then the {{stat|Speed}} cut would become a good thing. [[User:Shiny Noctowl|Shiny Noctowl]] 19:39, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
Oh, it just seems like a pointless object. Never mind. [[User:Tesh|Tesh]] 19:48, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
:Tesh, you're only thinking of beneficial effects from holding an item. Several held items that were added in Generation IV don't actually benefit the Pokémon holding it, but are meant to be used with other strategies that weren't possible with the previous Generations. Examples:
* Toxic Orb/Flame Orb- These items don't benefit the Pokémon that holds it, but they are useful when combined with certain moves (Fling, Trick, and Switcheroo in particular) and Abilities (Guts (with Toxic Orb at least), Magic Guard (the Pokémon won't take damage from the effect, so they can use a powered-up Facade without taking excessive damage), and Klutz).
* Iron Ball- Iron Ball can be Flung to cause massive damage, or it can be Switcheroo'd/Tricked onto an opponent in order to weaken them (especially helpful against a Flying-type or a Levitating opponent). A Lopunny or Buneary with Klutz can make the most of these tricks, since they won't suffer from the reduced speed.
* Lagging Tail- Trick or Switcheroo will put this on your opponent, making them move last every turn. Very helpful if your Pokémon is extremely slow.
:Don't judge an item just by what it does; judge it by what you can do with it. [[User:Diachronos|Diachronos]] 16:07, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
::Yeah, thanks I kind of figured that out after lol. [[User:Tesh|'''TESH''']][[User_talk:Tesh|'''IGIGAS''']] 16:40, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

== Black Sludge ==
I've always wondered, is there any advantage to using '''Black Sludge''' on a [[Poison-type]] Pokémon as opposed to [[Leftovers]]? [[User:Blink|Blink]] 17:37 16 August 2007 (GMT)
:You could use Trick or Switcheroo. Or, if the opponent uses Thief, Covet, Trick, or Switcheroo on the first turn because they don't know what you're holding, and they aren't a Poison-type, they will get hurt. --[[User:Shiny Noctowl|Shiny Noctowl]] 16:48, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
:: Or, if you're required to give each Pokémon a different hold item, it's the equivalent of being able to use 2 Leftovers. [[User:Zurqoxn|Zurqoxn]] 00:04, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
:::I see. I thought it might restore a little more health or something. {{unsigned|Blink}}
::::It helps in places like the Battle Tower. [[User:Tesh|'''TESH''']][[User_talk:Tesh|'''IGIGAS''']] 16:39, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

== Choice Specs ==

...the man gives out the Choice Specs during the morning, right? Because I just went to him and he talked about BlackGlasses instead. Is 10:35 REALLY not considered morning, or does the time period for BlackGlasses-giveaway happens to be at 10?
...on the other hand, when does the Specs giveaway start and end? [[User:TinaTheKirlia|Tina]][[User:TinaTheKirlia/Sandbox|☆]][[User:TinaTheKirlia/Favorites|♥]][[User talk:TinaTheKirlia|♫]][http://freewebs.com/thepixelcafe δ] 16:40, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
:The Choice Specs are from 8:00 PM to 3:59 AM, so at night. [[User:Shiny Noctowl|Shiny]][[User talk:Shiny Noctowl|?]][[Special:Contributions/Shiny Noctowl|!]] 13:37, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

==Focus Band/Focus Sash==
Do they let you have 1HP left even if you're hit by a OHKO attack, such as Sheer Cold? [[User:Shiny Noctowl|Shiny]][[User talk:Shiny Noctowl|?]][[Special:Contributions/Shiny Noctowl|!]] 13:38, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

:No I think it doesn't work aganst 1 hitKO :D,but mmm I battled in battler frontier of emerald long ago and I couldn't beat, I recall, a Exploud wich was holding this Focus Band, because I kept using it like 5 times IN A ROW I'm freaken not kidding,, how was that posible?? I mean this I'm not jocking it did happen!! I want to know why or what!--[[User:YukitoOoO|YukitoOoO]] 17:17, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

::Focus Sash is one-time, always works on a hit that would bring the Pokémon from full health to death (not Sheer Cold I don't think, but yes, stuff like Psychic on a fighting-type).
::if the Exploud had a Focus Band, that one can trigger multiple times, but it's only got a chance of working. That Exploud probably just got lucky-lucky. --[[user:Jioruji_Derako| '''J'''ïörüjï '''Ð'''ērākō.'''>''']][[user talk:Jioruji Derako|''.cнаt'''''^''']] 17:43, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
:::Focus Sash works against ANY move that would otherwise take out the Pokémon while it has full health. Sheer Cold, and the other 1H-KO moves included, would take it down to 1 HP. Focus Band is just random chance that it will hold against an attack, including the 1H-KO moves again. [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|R.A. Hunter B.]] 21:19, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, that happened to my oppenent at the Battle Tower, too, but only twice. --Kimori Geckarbor Hinoarashi 23:10, 19 October 2009 (UTC) [[User:Kimori-Hinoarashi|Kimori-Hinoarashi]]

== Wide Lens ==

How much does it raise accuracy by? 20%? 30%? '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]][[User:TTEchidna/GSDS|GSDS!]]''' 22:17, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

20% [[User:Tesh|'''TESHIGIGAS''']] 22:21, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
:So DynamicPunch has 70% with it? '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]][[User:TTEchidna/GSDS|GSDS!]]''' 23:48, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Nope, 60% . It's a 20% increase. (50 / 10 = 5. 5 × 2 = 10. 50 + 10 = 60%) [[User:Tesh|'''TESHIGIGAS''']] 16:13, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

:Is that taken into account before or after an ability?(i.e. Compoundeyes)
::I'm not sure about that, but I'm guessing that it is done before an ability. [[User:Tesh|'''TESHIGIGAS''']] 16:56, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
:::I would think after. Cause it is like an 'extra' multiplier (or whatever you would call it). [[User:Sivart345|--Sivart]][[User talk:Sivart345|3]][[Special:Contributions/Sivart345|4]][[User:Firestorm|'''5''']] 01:41, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

== White Herb ==

Does a white herb, after curing status, get consumed, or is it reusable? [[User:Zapdos|Zapdos]] 18:04, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
:It is consumed. [[User:Tesh|'''TESHIGIGAS''']] 18:05, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
::But in PBR and stuff like it (Battle Tower, so on) it returns. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]] Fire echy''' 07:26, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
:::Does that mean that things like it, Focus Sash and the like, when used in a PvP battle return after the battle is over, they're not gone for good? --[[User:Skipperxc|skipperxc]] ''([[User talk:Skipperxc|talk]])'' 22:24, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
::::Question: if you were to raise your special attack, followed by overheat (were that possible) would it restore to 0, or to +1 on special attack? [[User:Zappyton|Zappyton]] 11:23, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

== Leftovers under sleeping Snorlax in FR/LG. ==

Do you need to find this before the Snorlax wakes up?

I've also heard of items being under certain key people in the game, but I've never found them in FR or LG. And I'm an [[Itemfinder]] fiend, running it nearly constantly. [[User:Machinedramon|Machinedramon]] 19:15, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
There's a Soothe Bell under where Mr. Fuji was in Pokémon Tower, and a Macho Brace where Giovanni was standing in the gym. And a Sacred Ash under where Ho-Oh perched. I'm [[User:Missingno. Master|Missingno. Master]], and I approve this [[User Talk:Missingno. Master|message.]] 19:47, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
:You have to stand right where they were standing and use the Itemfinder for it to work; the items won't show up AT ALL if you're not standing on that exact spot. [[User:Diachronos|Diachronos]] 16:11, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

== EXP. Share ==

If you have 2 exp.shares in your party do they get 1/3 of the exp or do they both get 1/2?
ie. would it be practical to have 5 exp.share's if your first one can ohko almost all? [[User:Keirou|Keirou]] 01:47, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
:If two Pokémon are holding Exp. Shares, the experience is divided in thirds, then distributed 1/3 to one holder, 1/3 to the other, and the remaining 1/3 is distributed among whoever battled. Having 5 of your Pokémon hold Exp. Shares would be the equivalent of having an Exp. All. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 07:56, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
:Actually, after experimenting today in Diamond, I discovered that 2 Exp. Shares splits so the pokemon who fought get half, and the sharers get a quarter each. I'll be experimenting with three as soon as I pick it up. [[User:Salix|Salix]] 06:00, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
::It appears that the Exp. Sharers get half the exp and the battlers get the other half, or at least in Diamond. [[User:Salix|Salix]] 03:33, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Didn't this split exp evenly between ALL party pokemon in gen1? If memory serves me, it did, and I think that's worth noting. [[User:Mageslayer|Mageslayer]] 14:45, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
:That was the EXP. ALL. Different item. Similar effect. — [[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|THE TROM]] — 21:39, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

== Smoke Ball ==

Does it work on Pokémon with ability such as shadow tag or arena trap or of the Pokémon used mean look before you decide to press run? [[User:TheBlazikenMaster|TheBlazikenMaster]] 03:25, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
:Yes. [[User:Tesh|'''TESH''']][[User_talk:Tesh|'''IGIGAS''']] 16:37, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

== Focus Band AND Smoke Ball AND Focus Sash ==
For Focus Band, does it work even when your HP is less than full (i.e. 1 HP can still survive)? if so, what are the odds?
For Smoke Ball, how do you use it in DP? It doesn't show up in any of the 4 item menus during battle.
For Focus Sash, does it FULLY disappear after use (a one-battle deal, please return to the battle tower for another)? -- Sk8torchic
:1. Yes, but I don't know the odds, 2. Make your Pokémon hold it, 3. yes, but you can also get it at the route near Pal Park. Hope I helped!--[[Blastoise (Pokémon)|K]][[Gary's Blastoise|kl]][[Blastoise (TCG)|l]][[User:Kkllnn|nn]] [[User Talk:Kkllnn| blastoise]] 19:22, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

== Amulet Coin ==

If you have multiple Amulet Coins, would you gain 4 times the amount (for 2), and etc.? [[User:Ht14|''ht'']][[User talk:Ht14|''14'']] 19:38, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

:No, as far as I can tell, multiple Amulet Coins and Luck Incenses do not stack. --[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 19:40, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

== Black Sludge.... Again ==

Will Black Sludge hurt Steel types too, or only Pokémon who are affected by Poison moves? [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|R.A. Hunter B.]] 22:39, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
:It will affect any non-Poison-type Pokémon, Steels included. The description does say ALL other types, but for accuracy's sake, I tried it on my Empoleon and it still worked. --[[User:Jayc|Jayc]] 08:33, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

== Sprites ==

What happend to all the Sprites?
The last time I checked there were Sprites. - ''unsigned comment from {{u|AlienX2008}} ([[User talk:AlienX2008|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/AlienX2008|contribs]]) ''
:All better now. And don't forget, sign those comments! — [[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|THE TROM]] — 02:45, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

== Underground Appearance ==

For those items that appear underground, would it be possible to get images of those items as found in the underground? They could be placed at the bottom of the page if that is convenient.[[User:Bob.com bob|Bob.com bob]] 00:55, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
:And...what would be the point of that exactly??? That would be like saying 'get a sprite of a Pokémon, but while it's in a battle.' --'''[[User:Theryguy512|Theryguy]][[User Talk:Theryguy512|512]]''' 00:56, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
well, you already have sprites of the plates, rare bone, fossils, odd keystone, shards, evolutionary stones, and several other objects, but not of any of these items, at least none that i have found. -- [[User:Bob.com bob|Bob.com bob]] 01:11, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
::Oh, well firstly, I totally misread your initial comment; my apologizes. And secondly, it is to my understanding that none of the items on this page can be found Underground, though I may be mistaken... --'''[[User:Theryguy512|Theryguy]][[User Talk:Theryguy512|512]]''' 01:25, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
:::Everything under Condition Boosters and then the Iron Ball can be found in the Underground. [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|R.A. Hunter B.]] 03:12, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
::::If someone can find them and upload them: do it. — [[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|THE TROM]] — 03:33, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
:::::The Grip Claw cannot be found in the Underground, so don't freak out when you can't find the Underground sprite for it. [[User:Bob.com bob|Bob.com bob]] 05:03, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

I found them, I just don't know what do. Like, a table, or something like that?

[[File:Mine Green Shard.png]] [[File:Mine Iron Ball.png]] *insert other sprites here*

The only difference is that the files are "Mine" instead of "Bag". [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|R.A. Hunter B.]] 03:45, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

:you could look on the source for other pages that have such images (like evolutionary stones or any of the fossils) for guidance if you don't know what to do with the pictures. Also, if you have sprites for underground items found on other pages it would be nice if you could upload to there, as well. -- [[User:Bob.com bob|Bob.com bob]] 04:55, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
::No, I meant that I don't know if we should use a table for them, or just have them floating in the middle of nowhere at the bottom of the page. And I know the Quick Claw isn't down there, I meant everything in the Condition Booster section, and also the Iron Ball, can be found down there. And we can't put the fossils or stones on the page, because those don't have any in-battle effects. [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|R.A. Hunter B.]] 15:37, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
:::What I'd think best? Put the Underground sprites on [[the Underground]]'s page. We don't need them floating all over the place. Ideally, even, they'd be backgrounds with the charts over them... but I dunno if we can do that... '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 17:28, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
::::I did not say ''Quick'' Claw, I said ''Grip'' Claw, which is under the condition boosters section. Also, I believe that a table would probably be the best way to go if you were to put the sprites on this page, but I think it would be great to put all the items on [[the Underground]] page, too. [[User:Bob.com bob|Bob.com bob]] 16:59, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
:::::My bad. And I didn't see the Grip Claw under that section. As for the tables, it would probably work better on the Underground's page now that I think about it. All of the items found there link to it anyways. I'll see what I can do. [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|R.A. Hunter B.]] 19:48, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
So yeah. I'm not happy right now. I had JUST finished making it, and hit preview, and then Bulbapedia dies. After 30 freakin minutes doing the stupid thing.... now I have to redo it. This time I'll save the stuff on a word document. [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|R.A. Hunter B.]] 20:08, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
:Is there a sprite for the Oval Stone, too? I did not see it in the table of items, but it is in the table of item shapes. Or is the shape table wrong? -- [[User:Bob.com bob|Bob.com bob]] 23:48, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
::That's why I asked for people to add anything I missed. It took me 30 minutes to redo it, and I did the stones by memory. I'll go add it. [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|R.A. Hunter B.]] 00:47, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

== Lucky Egg ==

Didn't Lucky Egg doubled Exp before Generation IV? Doesn't this deserve a mention? [[User:Mr. Charlie|Mr. ]][[User talk:Mr. Charlie|Charlie]] 14:19, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
:No. It's like a traded Pokémon. They got half of the normal Exp added on to the total gain from the defeated Pokémon. [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|R.A. Hunter B.]] 21:48, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

== F.E.A.R ==

Is it possible to use a focus band in F.E.A.R instead of a focus sash [[User:Vespitomb|User: Vespitomb]] 10:45, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
:Yes, but the Focus Band only has a 10% chance of working, although it doesn't require full health to work. In other words, you can use it, but 9 times out of 10 it won't work, making it a pretty useless choice. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] 10:51, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

== Shedinja & Focus Sash ==

How does Focus Sash behave when held by Shedinja? Is it a free one-hit protection? '''UltimateSephiroth''' ([[User:UltimateSephiroth|about me]] · [[User talk:UltimateSephiroth|chat]] · [[Special:Contributions/UltimateSephiroth|edits]]) 12:09, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
:Yes. This was discussed elsewhere, actually, and is borderline forummy, but let's chuck it in the article. — [[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|THE TROM]] — 12:16, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

== More Focus Sash ==

It says here that Future Sight and Doom Desire can override the Focus Sash. {{m|Future Sight|Both}} of the moves' {{m|Doom Desire|pages}} says that they can't take out a Pokémon that has a Sash. Why? '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 17:55, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

== More More Focus Sash/Focus Band ==

Do Focus Band/Focus Sash protect against Explosion/Selfdestruct? [[User:Zesty Cactus|Zesty Cactus]] 02:01, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
:They protect *against* the "exploding" moves, but doesn't prevent the user from fainting. --[[User:Bbbbbbbbba|Bbbbbbbbba]] 04:40, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

== Quick Claw ==

Is it consumed after use? The news you cam [i]see[/i] it being used makes me think so, but I wanted to be sure. [[User:Machamp ion|Machamp ion]] 17:35, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
:It is not. — [[User:Tenno Seremel|Tenno Seremel]] 00:02, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

== Zoom lens ==

The in-game description says it boosts critical hit rate, not accuracy. Possibly by two levels given the timing requirement, unless the in-game is wrong, official nintendo guides have had errors, so. . . [[User:Kendai|~Kendai]] 22:03, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

== Shed Shell ==

Explain how this item functions... I'm massively confused on how to use it. [[User:Ht14|'''''ht''''']][[User talk:Ht14|''14'']] 03:49, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

:If your Pokémon is trapped by a move, such as Fire Spin, it can escape/switch out. Same thing if the opponent has Shadow Tag or Magnet Pull. I haven't ever used it, but I'm pretty sure it has unlimited uses. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 20:53, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
::So that's what it does. The in-game description isn't really helpful, but it makes sense now. [[User:Ht14|'''''ht''''']][[User talk:Ht14|''14'']] 02:51, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Is it single-use only, or can you use one multiple times?
[[User:ChknNuggets|ChknNuggets]] 03:05, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
:It's multiple use. For future reference, it would have been better to start a new section. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 13:36, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

== A Question About Metronome - move + item ==

When Metronome the move is used while holding Metronome the item, does it properly affect the randomly selected move so that by the 11th time the move is used, any attack selected is doing 100% more (double) damage? ––[[User:Wikifixer|Wikifixer]] 18:29, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
:No. Because {{m|Metronome}} calls up a random move, the hold item Metronome would only work if you got the same move twice in a row, which most likely won't happen. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 22:13, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

== "Critical Hit Ratio"(accuracy) ==
This does not make sense. Could someone field-test whether the Zoom Lens boosts one or the other? Thanks--[[User:Muk-a-matic|Muk-a-matic-Maketh the Muk go round...]] 02:24, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
:I don't know where that comes from, but the '''in-game''' description says critical hit ratio. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 03:56, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
Someone already fixed it...now what about those quotation marks...--[[User:Muk-a-matic|Muk-a-matic-Maketh the Muk go round...]] 04:01, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
:Yeah, I did. And I'll get the quotations. Unless the rest of the page is like that. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 04:04, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
Right-O!--[[User:Muk-a-matic|Muk-a-matic-Maketh the Muk go round...]] 04:07, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

== Big Root ==

It can be found on Route 3 according to the article, could someone add it in. I tried but it wouldn't work. {{u|Gallevoir}} 14:24 20 Feburary 2010

Do we know if the Big Root will affect Dream Eater (in any generation)? I can't find positive or negative confirmation of this anywhere. [[User:Delspencerdeltorro|Delspencerdeltorro]] 23:05, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure I'm wrong, but does Big Root actually increase the power of drain moves? I know it says the holder gains more HP, but is that because it does more damage or just because the holder gains more HP than usual? The way game describes it makes it seem like the holder just gains more HP and it doesn't actually do more damage, but some clarification would be nice. [[User:Pjwned|Pjwned]] 10:06, 29 October 2011 (UTC)
:I've never seen evidence that drain moves gain power when the user is holding a Big Root. The user probably just gains a larger portion of the damage in HP. [[User:Superbreeder|Super]][[User talk:Superbreeder|breeder]] 22:06, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

== Turn Alteration ==

I moved Iron Ball from Turn Alteration to Negative Effect on Holder because it doesn't technically alter anything in the priority bracket. It just cuts speed. [[User:Smythe|Smythe]] 12:48, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
:Actually, it makes the holder move last. Unless somebody can prove it doesn't. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 04:09, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
::Fair enough. I went by the in-game description and what the page listed as the effect. Obviously "Cuts the holder's Speed by 50%" is not a true priority change, but it could be wrong. [[User:Smythe|Smythe]] 14:38, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
:::It does cut the holder's speed (and makes the holder if it's flying type or has levitate vulnerable to ground-type attacks), it's Lagging tail that affects priority. Holding lagging tail will make the pokemon move after one holding iron ball.[[User:Wikifixer|Wikifixer]] 20:19, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

==Template==

I started putting the items into the templates. As you can tell, it's severely lacking information such a descriptions across generations and sell prices. Sell prices I didn't know, I put as "001". Please feel more than free to correct anything, add anything, or to continue putting things in the template. I'm out of free time for now. I'll get to work again later... [[User:Smythe|Smythe]] 14:38, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
:There might be a problem with the change to a template like this. Since the item names are no longer section headers, linking to specific items isn't working because it doesn't find the item name as a section anymore. EG: <nowiki>[[In-battle_effect_item_(section)#Choice_Scarf]]</nowiki> isn't working anymore. [[User:Megaericzero|Megaericzero]] 02:35, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
::It works... try clicking [[In-battle effect item#Choice Scarf|this]]. It works. ▫▪''[[User:Tina|Ťïňắ]]'' [[User talk:Tina|♫]][[Special:Contributions/Tina|♥]] 02:37, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

== Choice Items ==

Do the effects of the choice items end when the Pokémon holding them switch out? Or, will the Pokémon be forced to use the same chosen move when it switches back in? ~ [[User:Ender Phoenix|Ender Phoenix]] 07:36, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
:The effect ends when the Pokémon is withdrawn. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] [[User talk:Werdnae|(talk)]] 07:46, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
::Excellent, thanks very much. ~ [[User:Ender Phoenix|Ender Phoenix]] 07:47, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

== Amulet Coin held? ==

It says it can be held by wild Machokes in FRLG, [[Machoke#Held items]] says otherwise. Which one is true?--[[User:Afrael|Afrael]] 17:31, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

==Life Orb==
Does life orb power up explosion or will it not have any effect? [[User:S Ninja D|S Ninja D]] 15:41, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

==Focus Sash==
If a Shedinja is holding a focus sash, will it then become pretty much invinsible? It only has 1 HP, so any attack tha hits would bring it down from full health to death. Focus sash would make it stay at 1HP, but since this is its full HP, it could be sed again and again. Would this work? --- Migrant
:New comments to the bottom of the page please. Your question has already been answered on this page. Try the section titled ''{{DL|Talk:In-battle effect item|Shedinja & Focus Sash}}''. <sc>[[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]]</sc> [[User talk:Werdnae|(talk)]] 09:47, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

== Negative effect items ==

Do these items actuallt benefit the holder in any way, or is the idea to use an item-switching move? [[User:Takharii|<sc>Takharii</sc>]] '''~''' [[User talk:Takharii|<sc>Talk!</sc>]] 05:59, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
:Some abilities are activated when a Pokémon is inflicted with a burn or poison. Some moves are more powerful at a lower priority. Some of those items have additional effects when combined with Fling. There are a range of strategies that can be used, not just using Switcheroo or Trick. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 06:13, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

== Shed Shell PHaze ==
Does the shed shell bypass traps with PHaze moves? In other words, if I give a [[Skarmory (Pokémon) | Skarmory]] a shed shell, could it use roar or whirlwind to force a Pokémon with the Magnet Pull ability out, or would Skarmory itself have to switch?
:Shed Shell just allows your Pokémon to switch out, regardless of Magnet Pull, or other abilities/moves. As far as I know, Magnet Pull dosen't work that way. It simply prevents opposing Steel types from switching out. You should be able to phaze the Magnet Puller anyway. If you were trying to phaze a {{p|Cradily}} with {{a|Suction Cups}} it wouldn't work if you held the Shed Shell. <sc>[[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]]</sc> [[User talk:Werdnae|(talk)]] 00:28, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

== Focus Band code. ==

Are there any checks or surprises that explicitly prevent Focus Band from activating an infinite number of times in a row on a lucky day? --[[User:PLA|PLA]] 19:14, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
:I don't think there is, but you would have to be seriously lucky for it to occur. I know that it can activate multiple times in the same battle - I once had an opponent saved twice in a row by the Focus Band. <sc>[[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]]</sc> [[User talk:Werdnae|(talk)]] 20:09, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

== Generation III ==

Ok, here's the deal. All of the Items Introduced prior to Gen.IV games except Berserk Gene, Amulet Coin, and Smoke Ball, ARE purchasable in Pokémon Colosseum's and/or Pokémon XD's [[Mt. Battle]] via [[Poké Coupon|Poké Coupons]], but they are not being mentioned here. I just want to know if it's worth it. -- [[User:SaitoFX|Saito]] [[User talk:SaitoFX|FX]] 21:34, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

== Lagging Tail ==

Besides using Switch with this item to give it to your opponent, there are reasons to want YOUR Pokémon to go last. If your Pokémon knows a move like Avalanche or Revenge, they do more damage when your Pokémon is hurt during the current turn. This means they have to go second at least in order to get the bonus damage.
-[[User:KingStarscream|KingStarscream]] 19:49, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
:That's not helping the article. This is really just forums content. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 06:54, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

== Metronome (item) ==

Does it affect moves such as Outrage? --[[User:Slimmy|Slimmy]] 00:07, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
: I don't think so, Outrage does not appear in Category:Swipe moves [[User:Piotr mil|Piotr mil]] 20:36, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:: That, if anything, means that it could work. Swipe moves don't benefit from Metronome with each hit. [[User:PLA|PLA]] 20:42, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Sorry, my obvious mistake. I was thinking about something else when I was writing it ;) [[User:Piotr mil|Piotr mil]] 20:44, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::: I do that all the time. Like twice this week. [[User:PLA|PLA]] 22:01, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

Does it reset after you use an item or only when the ''pokemon'' uses another move? [[User:Stephens2424|Stephens2424]] 06:44, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

== Rechargable Battery and Red Card ==

It says they're single-use items. Does "single-use" mean if the affect happens, it won't happen again for the rest of the battle, OR does it mean it's "consumed" and goes away, lost forever? [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * [[User talk:ArcToraphim|the Arc Toraph]] 14:58, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
:The general meaning of "single-use" is that they are consumed and gone forever. As far as I'm aware, this has not changed in Gen V (i.e. no one's told me otherwise). —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 06:58, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::Then it should be made clear, since "single-use" isn't the same as "consumed," as every other blurb on Gen IV items and older make clear. If they vanish, they should be noted as "consumed," only because if I can express confusion on the aspect, so can other people. If they vanish, they vanish. If they only work once per battle but don't vanish, that needs to be definitively noted, too. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * [[User talk:ArcToraphim|the Arc Toraph]] 04:54, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::In general, consumed things are only consumed if you use them outside of wifi/IR battles or battle frontier/subway/tower etc. You can reuse them as many times as you want there {{unsigned|Pyritie}}

== WHY ==

WHY DID EVERYONE BREAK EVERYTHING.

They're in a currently-Japan-only game! WHY DID YOU NOT INPUT THE JAPANESE NAMES? '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 04:46, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:Japanese names added. Know any other articles that need it? [[User:Bluesun|Bluesun]] 08:03, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

==Cassettes==
I would argue that they deserve their own page. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 00:11, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
:As long as the Plates have one, it seems consistent. --[[User:PLA|PLA]] 09:55, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

== expert belt location black and white ==

expert belt is found in drift veil city in market when you have a pokemon over lvl 30. guy with glasses for those who are still searching :/. I thought I would mention that because expert belt does not have a location for black and white in article so just saying.[[User:T3thegreat|T3thegreat]] 20:28, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

== Bright powder ==

I wonder how they calculate use of this item.I ever use Thunder in rain but it miss!
Thats gonna be bright powder.May be they calculate it last and surpass everything?[[User:Meearaimeng|Meearaimeng]] 17:52, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

== Air Balloon ==

Does a held Air Balloon prevent entry damage from Stealth Rock? --[[User:Spriteit|Spriteit]] 02:10, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
:No, but it doesn't pop from it either [[User:Pikiwyn|'''Pikiwyn''']] [[User talk:Pikiwyn|<tt>'''''talk'''''</tt>]] 02:51, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

== Scope Lens ==

Scope Lens raises Crit. Ratio; but by how much? x1.5 x2?

-[[User:Male gardevoir|Male gardevoir]] 16:55, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

:By one stage. I fixed it. (you really should just put your signature just after your comment, by the way. ) '''--'''[[User:LimeGreenCharizard|'''LimeGreen''''''''Charizard''''']]'''--''' 07:01, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

== Shell Bell ==

I'm confused by this item. Does it need physical contact to work? Does sheer force negate the healing? I had an Audino use simple beam on my braviary (sheer force) and after that, the shell bell restored some HP after rock slide when normally it doesn't seem to work with that particular move. Is that a glitch perhaps? Will test with other moves boosted by sheer force to see if they all behave this way. [[User:Linksage|Linksage]] 23:47, 8 September 2011 (UTC)
:"If (and only if) a move is boosted by the effect of Sheer Force, it will no longer trigger effects that activate after attacking. This includes the effects of Eject Button, Shell Bell, and Red Card, as well as the Ability Color Change." -[[Sheer Force]] No, it does not need physical contact. '''--'''[[User:LimeGreenCharizard|'''LimeGreen''''''''Charizard''''']]'''--''' 01:31, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

== Eviolite Question ==

Let's say a Rhydon was holding an Eviolite with Sandstorm in effect. Which boost to Special Defense occurs first, the one from the Eviolite or the one from Sandstorm? [[User:Shiramu Kuromu|Shiramu Kuromu]] 00:29, 10 September 2011 (UTC)
:Well, it really wouldn't matter. Either way, it would come out them same (both boost by 50%). The real question is whether they take effect at the same time, or one after another. So, let's say Rhydon's Special Defense was 100. Would the end result be 200, or 225? '''--'''[[User:LimeGreenCharizard|'''LimeGreen''''''''Charizard''''']]'''--''' 01:39, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

== Seviper and Carnivine's armour ==

Should there be a mention of [[Team Rocket's mechas|these two]] somewhere? Since they apparently work like In-battle effect items, but are just anime-exclusive ones? 
[[File:Seviper Armor.png|200px]][[File:Carnivine Armor.png|200px]] [[User:Vuvuzela2010|'''Vuvuzela2010''']][[Pikachu (Pokémon)|'''⚡''']] 13:34, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
:Eh... personally I think that the "in the anime" sections of item pages should be simply the game items in the anime. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 04:53, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

== Shed Shell bug in B&W? ==

first off, hi Bulbapedia, long time user first time poster :D

Second, I think I found a bug with the Shed Shell item in the Battle Subway. it was a Super Singles track, and I led with a Whimsicott @ Shed Shell. When I tried to switch to one of my other two pokemon I got the message "(Whimsicott) can't be switched out!"

has anyone else encountered this bug and if not can anyone else reproduce it? I'll probably mess with it more, maybe see if it affects others besides Whimsicott. I have a feeling it has something to do with the Shell and the Prankster ability, but that's just a guess right now.

[[User:ElPared|ElPared]] 03:36, 21 October 2011 (UTC)
:I doubt it is related to Prankster. Did you get hit by {{m|Embargo}}? Did you save the battle video, or can you reproduce it and save the video? --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 06:02, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']]
::It's definitely not related to {{m|Embargo}}, I went 5 matches, trying to switch out in every one, and got the same message. The move was never used to my memory. I even tried switching out as soon as the battle started and got the same message. I later tried it with {{p|Whimsicott}} @ Destiny Knot instead (as I'd run into {{m|attract}} a lot), and it went away. So I know Shed Shell is definitely to blame. I haven't gotten a chance to test this yet as I only have one Prankster, but I can test it on a non-prankster tonight.

::*edit: I tried it with a {{p|Volcarona}}@shed shell in the lead, and got the "Can't be switched out" message, but {{m|U-turn}} still worked (not that I didn't think it would) I'll edit again when I try it with a pokemon that's not in the lead spot--[[User:ElPared|ElPared]] 06:23, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

::*edit: I tried with the same Volcarona but not in the lead, and had no trouble switching out. It seems that if you lead with a pokemon holding Shed Shell, it will be unable to switch out unless you use {{m|U-turn}}, {{m|Volt Switch}}, and the like, or get hit by {{m|Roar}} or {{m|Whirlwind}} and it's cousins. This game has a lot of weird bugs with switches, as something similar happens when both pokemon faint in the same turn during a double battle. [[User:ElPared|ElPared]] 21:10, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

== Air Balloon: Permanent or One-Time? ==

As the title says, is the Air Balloon permanent? The article for this item says that it "Pop"s, but doesnt say its a one-time item. Either way, anyone who has the BP to buy an Air Balloon should find out. No matter the answer, the page is entirely unclear about this. [[User:PowerPlantRaichu|PowerPlantRaichu]] 09:43, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
:It pops. It's unusable afterwards. It's pretty clear. I would put in "A one-time use item", but it's not. It's continually used until popped. '''[[User:LimeGreenCharizard|LimeGreen]]''[[User talk:LimeGreenCharizard|Charizard]]'''''[[Special:Contributions/LimeGreenCharizard|♂]] 04:40, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

== Does Big Root affect Ingrain and Aqua Ring? ==

Smogon says so but Bulbapedia doesn't... If yes the information should be added to this page and the ones of the moves. --[[User:Rafaelluik|Rafaelluik]] 21:39, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
:Okay, I've just tested it myself in Gen IV and V... Strangely enough, giving the in-game item's description, '''it works'''. I'll trust Smogon and Serebii and put in Dream Eater too. ;) --[[User:Rafaelluik|Rafaelluik]] 10:10, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

== Thief / Covet ==
Shell Bell is listed as an item that can be found in Trainer Tower (Fire/Leaf). Is this implying that items obtained that way may be kept? If not, why bother listing this location if it's not useful to the player? {{unsigned|CryptRat}}

== Item descriptions ==

I was looking up Eviolite which I just obtained in Black, and the description used doesn't match the game. Does White have different item descriptions? Black says: ''A mysterious evolutionary lump. When held, it raises the Defense and Sp. Def of a Pokémon that can still evolve.'' [[User:Digifiend|Digifiend]] ([[User talk:Digifiend|talk]]) 09:14, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
:The Eviolite has since been moved to [[stat-enhancing item]], but what you had was the correct description; the description that was there was a translation of the Japanese one, not the English one. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 05:33, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Smoke Ball Lag ==

Is it just me, or when fleeing with a Smoke Ball, does the message informing you of a successful escape take longer to display than without it? And if I'm not going crazy, then does anyone know why this is? Also, I'm doing this on Ruby, not sure if it's there in the other games. --[[User:GoldenSandslash15|GoldenSandslash15]] ([[User talk:GoldenSandslash15|talk]]) 01:54, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

== Why does this page contain no information? ==

That was my first question when browsing around looking for some explanation of what the heck any of these items actually ''do'', until eventually I realized I had JS disabled, which not only makes the information inaccessible, but also prevents the "show" text from appearing to suggest that it's even there at all. What's the purpose of hiding everything in these collapsible tables, and why is JS required to expand them, and why are they not at least expanded by default when JS is off? [[User:HyperHacker|HyperHacker]] ([[User talk:HyperHacker|talk]]) 03:40, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

=WHEN?=
First off, I concur about the hidden thingummy. The "show" text doesn't load until the page is finished. For overly slow coonnecctions, this means I, er, the user will be entirely unable to see the things.

When do the Berserk Gene and White Herb activate? [[User:Togepikachu|TogePikachu]] 07:13, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

== King's Rock ==

Shouldn't it be included in this article? - [[User:Ericss|Ericss]] ([[User talk:Ericss|talk]]) 02:00, 6 September 2013 (UTC)