https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/api.php?action=feedcontributions&feedformat=atom&user=Captian+ObviousBulbapedia - User contributions [en]2026-07-18T20:17:59ZUser contributionsMediaWiki 1.43.8https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Steamroller_(move)&diff=1309718Steamroller (move)2011-01-10T22:05:17Z<p>Captian Obvious: /* Trivia */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{MoveInfobox|<br />
n=537 |<br />
name=Hard Roller |<br />
jname=ハードローラー|<br />
jtrans= Hard Roller |<br />
desc= {{tt|まるめた 体で 回転して 相手を おしつぶす。 相手を ひるませることが ある。|It flattens the opponent by rolling its curled up body. It may cause the opponent to flinch.}} |<br />
gameimage=none.png |<br />
type=Bug |<br />
damagecategory=Physical |<br />
basepp=20 |<br />
maxpp=32 |<br />
power=65 |<br />
accuracy=100 |<br />
gen=V |<br />
pokefordex=hard+roller |<br />
touches=yes |<br />
protect=yes |<br />
magiccoat=no |<br />
snatch=no |<br />
brightpowder=yes |<br />
kingsrock=no |<br />
flag7=yes |<br />
flag8=no |<br />
sound=no |<br />
target=any |<br />
footnotes= }}<br />
''' Hard Roller''' (Japanese: '''ハードローラー''' '' Hard Roller'') is a damage-dealing {{type2|Bug}} [[move]] introduced in [[Generation V]].<br />
<br />
==Effect==<br />
Hard Roller inflicts damage and has a 30% chance of causing the target to {{status|Flinch|flinch}}. Hard Roller can only cause the target to flinch if the user attacks before the target. Hard Roller cannot make a target with a {{m|Substitute}} flinch.<br />
<br />
The base power of Hard Roller is doubled to 130 if the target has used {{m|Minimize}}.<br />
<br />
==Learnset==<br />
===[[Generation V]]===<br />
====By [[Level|leveling up]]====<br />
{{Learnlist|Bug }}<br />
{{Moveentry|076|Golem|2|Rock|Ground|18}}<br />
{{Moveentry|543|Fushide|2|Bug|Poison|33|'''}}<br />
{{Moveentry|544|Hoiiga|2|Bug|Poison|37|'''}}<br />
{{Moveentry|545|Pendra|2|Bug|Poison|39|'''}}<br />
{{Learnlist/footer}}<br />
<br />
<br />
==Trivia==<br />
* {{p|Golem}} is the only Pokémon that learns Hard Roller that does not get STAB from it.<br />
<br />
==In other languages==<br />
{{Stomp}}<br />
{{Project MoveDex notice}}<br />
[[Category:Moves that cause flinching]]<br />
<br />
[[de:Hard Roller]]</div>Captian Obvioushttps://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Vanillite_(Pok%C3%A9mon)&diff=1304797Talk:Vanillite (Pokémon)2011-01-06T03:45:47Z<p>Captian Obvious: /* Based on */ new section</p>
<hr />
<div>== Name ==<br />
I'm not sure whoever romanised its name to "Vanipeti", but that users clearly knows nothing about Japanese. [[User:Pokejungle|Pokejungle]] 01:19, 11 December 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Furthermore it needs to be moved to be redirected to Vanipucchi (Pokemon). [[User:Pokejungle|Pokejungle]] 01:20, 11 December 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Game Freak did. - [[User:Taylor|Taylor]] 01:26, 11 December 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::Ever heard of official romanizations? (and the Japanese trademark database?) That's where this came from. Check your facts next time. <span style="color:red">—<small>♥</small></span> <b>[[User:Jello|<span style="color:orange;">Jello</span>]][[User Talk:Jello|<span style="color:#3FA9D0;"><sup>talk</sup></span>]]</b> 01:28, 11 December 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::I don't care what they "trademarked" it is a shoddy romanisation [[User:Pokejungle|Pokejungle]] 01:48, 11 December 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::Well we use the trademark romanizations. --[[User:PsychicRider|<span style="color:#78C850;">'''P S Y'''</span>]][[User talk:PsychicRider|<sub style="color:#F85888;">'''ライダー'''</sub>]]''[[Special:Contributions/PsychicRider|<span style="color:#C4E673;">'''☮'''</span>]]'' 01:53, 11 December 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::That's ok Pjungle, I don't think they care that you don't care about their official trademark. But, it being official and all, it will be staying. -- '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|<span style="color:#000033;">MAG</span>]][[Special:Contributions/MAGNEDETH|<span style="color:#696969;">NE</span>]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|<span style="color:#000033;">DETH</span>]]''' 01:58, 11 December 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::LOL Well the fact of the matter is even if it is trademarked and you'd like that to be the page name it still shouldn't say "''バニプッチ Vanipeti''" for the direct romanisation. :( [[User:Pokejungle|Pokejungle]] 02:02, 11 December 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::::It's staying. Get over it already. --[[Tracey Sketchit|<span style="color:#33CC66;">'''ケンジ'''</span>]][[User talk:Kenji-girl|<span style="color:#6600CC;">'''の'''</span>]][[User:Kenji-girl|<span style="color:#FF00CC;">'''ガール'''</span>]] 02:03, 11 December 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::::*sigh* [[User:Pokejungle|Pokejungle]] 02:08, 11 December 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::Go *sigh* and whine on Facebook all you like, man. That doesn't change the fact that we're sticking by GameFreak's official romanization. If you don't like it, you'll either have to take it up with GameFreak's complaints department or just have to...<br />
:::::::::http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/5061/dealwithitdoggif.gif <br />
:::::::::Cheers. --'''[[User:Darkeiya|<span style="color:#FF6600">Darkeiya</span>]]''' <small>''[[User talk:Darkeiya|<span style="color:#00CCFF">talk to me!</span>]]''</small> 02:10, 11 December 2010 (UTC)<br />
::lol, back to the topic, I do admit I was wrong and I jumped the gun :p I was just really annoyed when I saw such a weird romanisation and didn't know the reason it was totally unrelated to the kana in its name :p [[User:Pokejungle|Pokejungle]] 05:28, 11 December 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Based on ==<br />
<br />
At closer examination it seems to me like it could be based on soft serve ice cream. [[User:Captian Obvious|Captian Obvious]] 03:45, 6 January 2011 (UTC)</div>Captian Obvioushttps://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Meloetta_(Pok%C3%A9mon)&diff=1284351Talk:Meloetta (Pokémon)2010-12-14T03:29:33Z<p>Captian Obvious: /* Trivia */ new section</p>
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<div>{{Forme info|648{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: i}} mod 2}}|1=S}}.png|Normal|{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: i}} mod 2}}|0=psychic|1=fighting}}|[[Form differences#Meloetta|Meloetta's forms]]|Meloetta as though it were in {{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: i}} mod 2}}|0=Voice Forme|1=Step Forme}}. However, this cannot be accurately reproduced here|the type-themed color displays, the [[Effort values|EV yield]] shown on the page itself, the base stats entry which is unhidden, the type effectiveness entry which is unhidden, and the moves noted as [[Same-type attack bonus|STAB]] for this Pokémon|minute}}<br />
<br />
<br />
==Evolution section==<br />
Shouldn't we change the header to "Forme Change" on Pokémon like this and {{p|Shaymin}}? It's not technically correct, and really threw me for a loop when I noticed the header. --[[User:AndyPKMN|Andy<sup>P</sup><sub>K</sub><sup>M</sup><sub>N</sub>]] 01:42, 6 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I guess we could. But it is used instead of just having it by itself in the evolution box, so we would need to put a new one in to show that it doesn't evolve. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#444444">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#C3C3C3">'''Monster'''</span>]] 12:10, 6 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Description ==<br />
<br />
Ok, nevermind cleared up<br />
<br />
== Possible name origin ==<br />
<br />
Depending on how "Meloetta" is pronounced (I can't read Japanese), could it possibly be derived from "{{wp|Alouette (song)|Alouette}}," or is that just crazy talk? --[[User:Minimiscience|Minimiscience]] 02:40, 18 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Meh-low-eh-ta [[User:Ataro|Ataro]] 02:48, 18 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
::That is sort of how the song is pronounced except for the Meh part. But I can't be sure that it's an origin. --[[Tracey Sketchit|<span style="color:#33CC66;">'''ケンジ'''</span>]][[User talk:Kenji-girl|<span style="color:#6600CC;">'''の'''</span>]][[User:Kenji-girl|<span style="color:#FF00CC;">'''ガール'''</span>]] 02:55, 18 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::Actually it's more Ah-lou-et.--[[User:MisterE13|<span style="color:#0000FF">Mister</span>]][[User talk:MisterE13|<span style="color:#008000">'''E'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/MisterE13|<span style="color:#800080">13</span>]] 02:17, 21 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Appearance ==<br />
<br />
''In its Step Forme it has auburn hair that seems to be stylized in a high bun and red eyes.''<br />
<br />
I've never thought Step Meloetta's musical staff looked like a bun... it looks more like a turban to me. Voice's staff looks somewhat like a veil, as well.<br />
<br />
== Trivia ==<br />
<br />
Could the fact that it is the only pokemon to learn both Pyschic and Close Combat by level up? [[User:Captian Obvious|Captian Obvious]] 03:29, 14 December 2010 (UTC)</div>Captian Obvioushttps://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Pok%C3%A9Community&diff=1263917PokéCommunity2010-11-23T00:11:12Z<p>Captian Obvious: /* Current Generation Pokémon Gaming Discussions */</p>
<hr />
<div>'''PokéCommunity''' is a Pokémon forums website that operates similarly to the [[Bulbagarden forums]]. It has gained notability for housing one of the largest English ROM hacking communities on the internet.[[Image:PokeCommunity_Banner.png|thumb|right||300px|The current PokéCommunity banner]]<br />
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==Slogan==<br />
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===Official Forums===<br />
The Official Forums section contains things such as the Community Announcements, where the Community Rules and Donations and Supporter Benefits can be found, Community Questions & Feedback, where members can discuss questions and concerns they may have about the forums, and a New Users / Welcome forum. It is also common for users that have gone on hiatus to re-introduce themselves in the New Users Welcome thread.<br />
<br />
Members were once able to request username changes in the Community Questions & Feedback forum, but this put heavy strain on the server and was eventually abandoned. Members were given the chance to choose their final name change in the weeks leading up to the removal of this feature.<br />
<br />
===Current Generation Pokémon Gaming Discussions===<br />
The Current Generation Pokémon Gaming Discussions house all threads pertaining to the fourth and fifth generations. These topics include the following: Black and White, HeartGold and SoulSilver, Diamond, Pearl, and Platinum, Wi-Fi Center, and Pokémon Strategies & Movesets (which include team rating for both competitive and in-game teams).<br />
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<ab>Sub-topics include:<br />
'''In Wi-Fi Center''': Battle Stadium and Trade Corner<br />
'''In Pokémon Strategies & Movesets''': In-Game Team Help</ab><br />
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===General Pokémon Gaming Discussions===<br />
The General Pokémon Gaming Discussions includes a wide variety of games which users are allowed to comment on, ask questions, and the like. These topics include the following: Challenges, General Pokémon Gaming, Advanced Generation Games (GBA), Metal and Color Generation Games (GB/GBC), and Spinoff Games.<br />
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===Alternative Pokémon Discussions===<br />
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'''In Pokémon Trading Card Game''': TCG Deck Reviewing and Fake Cards.</ab><br />
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'''In Other Clubs''': Member Fanclubs.<br />
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* Rukario<br />
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{{Project Fandom notice}}<br />
[[Category:Fan sites]]</div>Captian Obvioushttps://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:List_of_Pok%C3%A9mon_by_Unova_Pok%C3%A9dex_number_in_Pok%C3%A9mon_Black_and_White&diff=1263872Talk:List of Pokémon by Unova Pokédex number in Pokémon Black and White2010-11-23T00:00:59Z<p>Captian Obvious: /* Name change */ new section</p>
<hr />
<div>==Semi-newly Announced Pokemon==<br />
<br />
Hello,<br />
<br />
This article needs to be update to include the two newer pokemon revealed.<br />
Gigaiasu and Mamanbou.<br />
<br />
Would it be safe to assume that Mamanbou is atleast a Water type?<br />
<br />
{{rdexh|black|white|I}}<br />
{{rdex|???|???|Mamanbou|1|Water}}<br />
{{rdex|???|???|Gigaiasu|1|Rock}}<br />
{{rdex|???|???|Miruhoggu|1|Normal}}<br />
{{rdex|???|???|Shikijika|2|Normal|Grass}}<br />
{{rdex|???|???|Emonga|2|Electric|Flying}}<br />
{{rdex|???|???|Swana|2|Water|Flying}}<br />
{{rdex|???|???|Kurumiru|2|Bug|Grass}}<br />
{{rdex|???|???|Basurao|1|Water}}<br />
{{rdex|???|???|Moguryuu|1|Ground}}<br />
|}<br />
<br />
--[[User:Paperstraw|Paperstraw]] 19:31, 27 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Edit: Adding the revealing of two new pokemon; Miruhoggu (Minezumi's evoution) and Shikijika. {{unsigned|Paperstraw}}<br />
<br />
Edit 2: Added the new Pika-clone from the Bus Demo, Emonga, plus Gigaiasu and Shikijika's type.--[[User:A Tell-Tale Heart|A Tell-Tale Heart]] 02:11, 7 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Edit 3: Swana and Kurumiru need to be added to the list. Moguryuu's type needs to be changed to ground. And I think it's safe to say Basurao will be atleast part water.--[[User:Paperstraw|Paperstraw]] 16:17, 8 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
* I'd add that Victini's details have been revealed as well in the hopes that someone will get off their *** and write the article, but there's no point requesting an update on this page or on any other pages for that matter. The people with editing privileges will update whenever the crap they feel like it (which will probably be a month after the games are released) and not a minute sooner. Apparently the people in charge of the definitive source of Pokémon knowledge on the web have more important things to do than, say, keep up with current events or keep the wiki up to date. You know, trivial things like that.--[[User:Bad Wolf|Bad Wolf]] 17:00, 3 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
:{{p|Victini}}--[[User:Phantomjunkie|<span style="color:red">Phantom</span>]][[User talk:Phantomjunkie|<span style="color:black">Junkie</span>]] 17:50, 3 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Oh, I'm sorry? We're a couple of hours late on the news? Maybe even a day at most, but we are keeping up with the news, after all, WE'RE the ones writing the news articles most of the time. But yeah, thanks for letting us know we're not allowed to have lives. <span style="color:red">—<small>♥</small></span> <b>[[User:Jello|<span style="color:orange">Jel</span>]][[User Talk:Jello|<span style="color:#90a8e0;">lo</span>]]</b> 18:54, 3 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I'm sorry Jello, but I'll have to support Bad Wolf on this topic. Firstly this is an encyclopedia, something that is supposed to provide the most up-to-date information on its contents as fast as it's released, while this is not humanly possible all of the time, articles should be updated/culled atleast once per week, especially with news of a new game constantly trickling in.<br />
<br />
You use the creation of news articles as an excuse, but there hasn't even been an average of 1 article/day, so that is not a satisfactory response in my opinion. There are currently 19 administrators on Bulbapedia, and one of them even stopped in to chastise some criticism, instead of actually editting the main article being criticized, which would have probably taken considerably less time to do, so I think it should be possible to maintain a healthy social life, while updating a couple dozen articles in a week.--[[User:Paperstraw|Paperstraw]] 20:37, 4 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I apologize if I offended anyone here, I think I took this a little too personally, hence my comment may not have been appropriate. Speaking for myself here, I do try my hardest to do what I can here, but I'm only one person and it does get stressful. Please try to remember that we put up things that are confirmed, and are wary about putting up rumored information, so we'll always be late, but we can at least be right about it. If you think something should be updated and are not getting any response, the fastest thing would to contact an active staff member on their talk page and bring up the issue there. Thanks. <span style="color:red">—<small>♥</small></span> <b>[[User:Jello|<span style="color:orange;">Jello</span>]][[User Talk:Jello|<span style="color:#3FA9D0;"><sup>talk</sup></span>]]</b> 20:02, 8 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Hey- just wanted to ask something here... First of all, on the page, we listed Mamanbou as Water-Type due to the fact that it is (99% likely) an evolution of Luvdisc. Additionally, rather then keeping Musharna in "later-reveals-on-the-bottom order", we placed Musharna right after Munna, as they are related by evolution. Considering all that... Shouldn't we, similarly, place Darumakka right before Hihidaruma and state it as Fire-Type? [[User:M190049|'''''~m190049''''']]<sup>[[User talk:M190049|'''''~talk''''']]</sup> 19:57, 10 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Actually, Mamanbou is listed as a Water-type because it is a fish, not because it might be an evolution of Luvdisc. In fact, given that there are only Gen V Pokémon pre-national dex, it's also likely that none of the Pokémon currently revealed have cross generation evolutions. Until it is 100% confirmed, there will be no mention of the supposed evolutionary relationship in the articles. Secondly, does the order really matter at the moment? They are all going to be changed when we get their dex numbers anyway. <sc>[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</sc> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 20:25, 10 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Ah- wasn't clear on that. Although the evolution thing wasn't really the point of what I was saying- we still assumed it's type, even though it's ''technically not 100% confirmed'', which is what I was trying to get across... Though anyway; Darumakka and Hihidaruma share obvious design aspects, colors, themes, and have similar names. It's pretty obvious they're related. Fine, there doesn't need to be a mention of the relationship in their articles- I didn't even say that anyway...- though it would still make sense to place them next to each other on this page, as we did with Musharna. As for the why does it matter thing- it doesn't. It's called aesthetics- In other words, because it looks nice- it's fun. Of course they're going to be changed when we get their dex numbers, but that shouldn't be for another month or so. We shouldn't just ''not care'' or whatever in the mean time. [[User:M190049|'''''~m190049''''']]<sup>[[User talk:M190049|'''''~talk''''']]</sup> 20:59, 10 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Pikachu Discussion==<br />
<br />
who said pikachu's family is going to be there? coro coro said that The Isshu (Sound like issue) is located far away from the others. who said its getting special treatment (it has been used to much for such a weak pokemon. [[User:Vkickass|Vkickass]] 22:12, 12 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:It's pretty much set in stone that Pikachu will be in there...Its appeared in all main games in the regional Dex, and it's pretty much safe to say it will be there in Black and White...--[[User:PsychicRider|<span style="color:#78C850;">'''Psy'''</span>]][[User talk:PsychicRider|<sub style="color:#F85888;">'''ライダー'''</sub>]]''[[Special:Contributions/PsychicRider|<span style="color:#C4E673;">'''☮'''</span>]]'' 22:19, 12 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Most likely, all of [[List of Pokémon that appear in every regional Pokédex|these Pokemon]] will be in Black and White's Pokedex. Pikachu is guaranteed because of being the mascot of Pokemon. <sub style="color:#00008B;">'''[[User:Blake|Blake]]'''</sub> <sup>[[User talk:Blake#top|Talk]]·[[Special:Contributions/Blake|Edits]]</sup> 22:27, 12 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
pikachu is pokemons unofficial mascot why wouldnt it be here (honestly....it should be obvious by now and they'd be idiots to stop it now)<br />
([[User:Ataro|Ataro]] 22:31, 12 May 2010 (UTC))<br />
:While I agree that the Pikachu line will end up in the game at some point, we can't put it on the Regional Dex until we have confirmation that it's in the Regional Dex. It could end up being like DP's Eevee for all we know. &mdash;'''<span style="font-family:Verdana"><span style="color:#000">darklord</span>[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|<span style="color:#0047AB">trom</span>]]</span>''' 11:50, 13 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Needs Speculation and Current Event tags ==<br />
<br />
This article has no "official" sources so should be tagged as such. Yes we all agree that the {{tt|cutesy yellow vermin|Pikachu}} will appear in the regional dex however this has not been confirmed by any sources official or unofficial. Therefore it is entirely fan speculation at this point and this status needs to be made clear.--[[User:Beligaronia|Beligaronia]] ([[User talk:Beligaronia|talk]]) 23:12, 12 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:See above, regarding the vermin. Tags will be put on. &mdash;'''<span style="font-family:Verdana"><span style="color:#000">darklord</span>[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|<span style="color:#0047AB">trom</span>]]</span>''' 11:50, 13 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Considering that Sdex had Electabuzz and Elekid ready and in waiting at the bottom back in 2006, I don't see why we can't put that Pikachu, which is obvious, will be in the Pokédex. It's not like we're speculating that Magikarp or Geodude will be. If Pikachu's not in the regional 'dex, it's not a Pokémon game. '''[[User:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#FF0000">''TTE''</span>]][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 18:35, 13 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Reshiraram and Zekrom Types ==<br />
Reshiram and Zekrom have been revealed to be Dragon types.<br />
:Yeah, this should be added. [[User:Shady|'''Shady]] got [[Image:PokémonDollar.png]][[User talk:Shady|10,000]] for [[Special:Contributions/Shady|winning]]''' 00:34, 4 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Is it really necessary? ==<br />
Do we really need to have all the ???'s in the Pokedex? I think it would be better to organize it just by what we know, like this:<br />
<br />
{{rdexh|black|white|I}}<br />
{{rdex|001|494|Tsutarja|1|Grass}}<br />
{{rdex|004|497|Pokabu|1|Fire}}<br />
{{rdex|007|500|Mijumaru|1|Water}}<br />
{{rdex|078|???|Chiramii|1|Normal}}<br />
|}<br />
<br />
However, the unnumbered ones can remain as they were. Thoughts?--[[User:Goukazaru|Gou]] 19:11, 13 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I partly agree since the number of new Pokémon is unknown as well as the number of previous Generation Pokémon that will be added is also undetermined. It would be a great way of dealing with speculation of the number of things that are unknown at the moment until further details are revealed. -[[User:Tyler53841|Tyler53841]] 19:16, 13 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Romanization inconsistencies ==<br />
<br />
I was going to put this on Rankurusu's page, but since it applies to a few other Pokémon I figured I'd say it here. I noticed that Wōguru's article is entitled '''Wargle''' even though the official romanization has not been confirmed (as far as I know, correct me if I'm wrong). However, there are other new Pokémon whose names are partly derived from English words, but they aren't romanized as such on this page or in the article titles:<br />
<br />
* Rankurusu should be '''Ranculus'''<br />
* Chiramii should be '''Chillamii'''<br />
* Giaru should be '''Gearu'''<br />
* Meguroko should be '''Meguroc'''<br />
* Gochikuzeru should be '''Gothiruzeru'''<br />
* Denchura should be '''Dentula'''<br />
<br />
I know that a lot of these names are being discussed on the individual pages, but I thought I'd list them here for discussion. Either we should change all of the article names to the ones I listed, or rename Wargle to Wooguru until the official romanization is given. We can't have one article titled with an assumed romanization (no matter how likely it may be) and leave the rest as their literal transliterations; this is, after all, an encyclopedia, and consistency is important.--[[User:Bad Wolf|Bad Wolf]] 07:22, 16 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Giaru is "Gearl" in my mind. But I didn't make the article. I made Wargle. '''[[User:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#FF0000">''TTE''</span>]][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 00:30, 4 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Chillarmy is the trademarked romanization. And yeah, Gearl, makes the most sense, since gear is "gia", and adding an extra r would be pointless. <span style="font-family:Impact">[[User:Goldenpelt|<span style="color:#D4AF37">Gοlden</span>]][[User talk:Goldenpelt|<span style="color:#C0C0C0">pelt</span>]]</span> 04:59, 8 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Just one question before the pre-release of the games... ==<br />
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Is it possible that the Abra, Machop, and Geodude evolutions will be included in the Isshu Pokédex?<br><br />
~~'''''[[User:LDEJRuff|<font face="Verdana" color="#FF0000">L</font><font face="Verdana" color="#FF8800">D</font><font face="Verdana" color="#FFFF00">E</font>]][[User_talk:LDEJRuff|<font face="Verdana" color="#00FF00">J</font><font face="Verdana" color="#008800">R</font><font face="Verdana" color="#0000FF">u</font><font face="Verdana" color="#000088">f</font><font face="Verdana" color="#880088">f</font>]]'''''~~<font face="Verdana" color="#FF88FF"><sup>([[Special:Contributions/LDEJRuff|<font color="#FF88FF">see what I have contributed</font>]])</sup></font> July 27, 2010, 15:16 (EDT)<br />
<br />
I would think it would be possible that they will.But until there`s evidence that they are,They are as of the moment are not in the dex.But about the matter,The forum is a place to speculate this stuff not talk pages.[[User Talk:LucarioWolf|<span style="color:#2C2C2C ;">'''Lucario'''</span>]][[User:LucarioWolf|<span style="color:#7F7F7F ;">'''Wolf'''</span>]] 20:16, 27 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== No Pikachu ==<br />
<br />
What. '''[[User:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#FF0000">''TTE''</span>]][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 23:52, 3 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Even if it is going to be in the Isshu dex, we don't know what Isshu dex number it might have. The same can easily be said for Pokémon like Magikarp, Geodude, Zubat, Abra, etc. [[User:Rai Marshall|Rai Marshall]] 00:20, 4 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
::It's not in there. We have confirmation. Only Gen V Pokémon will be in the Idex. '''[[User:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#FF0000">''TTE''</span>]][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 00:26, 4 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::Was there an official source of that? [[User:Rai Marshall|Rai Marshall]] 00:29, 4 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Junichi Masuda's blog specifically said that there are only new Pokémon until you beat the game. --[[User:Shiny Noctowl|<font color="black"><small>S</small><sup>h</sup><small>i</small><sub>n</sub><small>y</small> <sup>N</sup><small>o</small><sub>c</sub><small>t</small><sup>o</sup><small>w</small><sub>l</sub></font>]] 00:31, 4 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Basurao?==<br />
<s>I don't recall exactly where we got Basurao's name from but it's not in the bus demo flyer or the leaked Coro Coro scans. Can someone confirm whether this information came from a reliable source and if not, kindly remove it? Sorry it it's confirmed, I just don't remember where it came from.</s>--[[User:A Tell-Tale Heart|A Tell-Tale Heart]] 16:52, 7 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Nevermind, Serebii says it's from same blog as Darumakka. I wasn't sure since we don't have a picture of it.--[[User:A Tell-Tale Heart|A Tell-Tale Heart]] 19:43, 7 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Minezumi's number ==<br />
<br />
http://www.pokemonbrothers.com/public/cutenews/data/immagini/%5BPB%5Dfoto2.jpg<br />
<br />
#010. All said.--'''[[User:Immewnity|<span style="color:#88AADD">''immewnity''</span>]][[User talk:Immewnity|<span style="color:#627DB7">the</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Immewnity|<span style="color:#335577">mew</span>]]''' 02:48, 10 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
:So if Minezumi is 010, it follows that Miruhoggu would be 011, right? Since they are in a confirmed evolutionary line.--[[User:Phantomjunkie|<span style="color:red">Phantom</span>]][[User talk:Phantomjunkie|<span style="color:black">Junkie</span>]] 03:05, 10 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Yes, this also confirms that Miruoggu is 011... [[User:CuboneKing|<font color="Red">Cu</font>]][[User talk:CuboneKing|<font color="Tan">bo</font>]][[Special:Contributions/CuboneKing|<font color="Green color light">ne</font>]][[Cubone (Pokémon)|<font color="Black">King</font>]] 03:06, 10 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== National Dex numbers ==<br />
<br />
I noticed that following the announcement that pre-Isshu Pokémon are absent from the Isshu Dex, Chillarmy, Minezumi, and Miruhoggu have been given National Dex numbers on this page but not in the individual articles. Could someone take care of that?--[[User:A Tell-Tale Heart|A Tell-Tale Heart]] 18:22, 10 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Red Links ==<br />
<br />
Would somebody fix the menu sprites, some of them are linked to the menu sprite numbers (50x, etc.). They're supposed to be the question mark. I cannot edit this myself. {{u|Gallevoir}} 18:11, 18 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Curious ==<br />
<br />
Upon a certain fansites reveal (without sources) of Victini being #494 in the National Dex, it got me thinking: How was Tsutarja, Mijumaru, etc actually given National Dex numbers on Bulbapedia, other than speculation? Yes, in the past, the starters started the national dex for the generation, but with an all new "from scratch" generation, assuming that was speculation. Just something I'm curious about. And the reason I'm posting this here and not forums is more of a "Why are the national dex numbers labeled, when none have been revealed?" [[User:Myzou|Myzou]] 06:33, 12 September 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Now Serebii has confirmed Victini is #494 (on GameFAQs, sadly). Again, aware they are not sourceable sources. However, I'm stating shouldn't the natiional dex #'s of all pokemon be removed until B&W is released, as there is no evidence for national dex numbers for any of them? [[User:Myzou|Myzou]] 08:24, 12 September 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Choroneko ==<br />
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Pokemon Sunday revealed that it was #019 in the Isshu dex. --[[User:S2daam|samm -- ]] 11:29, 12 September 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== "Sazando"? ==<br />
<br />
Both here and the [[National Pokédex]] page. Rename, please, because I can't do it myself. [[User:Ztobor|Ztobor]] 22:35, 2 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Name change ==<br />
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Shouldn't "Isshu" be changed to "Unova" [[User:Captian Obvious|Captian Obvious]] 00:00, 23 November 2010 (UTC)</div>Captian Obvioushttps://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Snivy_(Pok%C3%A9mon)&diff=1176255Talk:Snivy (Pokémon)2010-09-04T18:05:50Z<p>Captian Obvious: /* Pokedex # */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{forums notice|March 31, 2011}}<br />
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== origin ==<br />
Given that the "ja" means "snake" (acording to Pokebeach), I think it is safe to assume that Tsutaaja is based on a snake. Mind putting that in the page? --[[User:Deuxhero|Deuxhero]] 00:54, 13 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
The same post that told us these names on 2ch, said Tsutaaja is the くさへびポケモン (Grass Snake Pokémon).<br />
Tsuta (蔦) means ivy and Ja is another reading for hebi (蛇), which means snake.--[[User:KurowaSan|KurowaSan]] 01:02, 13 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:How many snakes do you know have feet? I doubt that is a correct translation. ''[[User:Maverick Nate|<sup style="color:#00008B;">'''Maverick'''</sup>]][[User talk:Maverick Nate|<sub style="color:#00008B;">'''Nate'''</sub>]]'' 01:34, 13 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
::The translation is pretty accurate, the source may be not. But the source has nailed the description of the protagonists, the region name, the fact that the other starters were a fire pig and a sea otter before the scans leaked... And I have seen freaky snakes with legs.. XD Mutations nonetheless. And that would be "Grass Snake" as in a snake of/from grass, not as in the real world species "Grass Snake".--[[User:KurowaSan|KurowaSan]] 01:41, 13 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::There actually is a type of snake with legs, albeit really small ones. It's native to Australia, if I remember right. I know they have one at the Cairns Zoo, anyway. [[User:Reign|Reign]] 02:13, 13 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opheodrys_aestivus this doesn't have feet, but it looks like tsutaaja [[User:Kanjo|Kanjo]] 12:38, 13 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxybelis_fulgidus I would sooner assume Tsutaaja is based off of a Vine Snake. In fact, I'd say it's fairly definite. [[User:Flint|Flint]] 20:50, 13 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::: I think Origin should just mention grass snakes (green kind mostly) instead of getting very technical with species, seeing as there is far too many snakes that Tsutaaja may be based on. And maybe that early tidbit of a very few snakes having legs could also be mentioned. And is it just me, or does the collar it has kinda makes it resemble an unripened banana? [[User:Mudkipchan|Mudkipchan]] 21:07, 14 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::: It looks to me as though Tsutaaja may have been based off of a skink of sort, however skinks are closer related to lisards than snakes. I also think because this is a Pokémon that the collaring may have just as likely come from the fact that it is a grass type species. [[User:EpicShadow|EpicShadow]] 9:12, 16 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== bad grammar in the Origin section ==<br />
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Can we fix this?: "Tsutaaja may be based off a lizard or a snake. Its shared traits with boths make it similar to skinks."<br />
It should be "... with both makes it similar...". my dictionary and i are fairly sure "boths" isn't a word and the grammar in that sentence is atrocious anyway. --[[User:Lulu chan126|Lulu chan126]] 22:26, 14 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== images ==<br />
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Uhh, I have the three guys images saved, to upload, if a mod can do that...<br />
[http://img24.imageshack.us/i/497pokabu.png/][http://img219.imageshack.us/i/500mijumaru.png/][http://img10.imageshack.us/i/494tsutaaja.png/] [[User:Megadog|Megadog]] 05:12, 13 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:As do I, but I Beilieve the Admin isn't allowing editing for those Images . . . not that any are even there. --[[User:Lordrogersmith6485|Lordrogersmith6485]] 07:58, 13 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
::I've seen them on Legendary Pokémon fan site. Not sure if it is okay to use them. '''[[User:Kevzo8|<font color="#66CCCC">K</font><font color="#70DBDB">e</font><font color="#ADEAEA">v</font>]][[User_talk:Kevzo8|<font color="#ADEAEA">z</font><font color="#70DBDB">o</font><font color="#66CCCC">8</font>]]''' 13:27, 13 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::sprites too, along with zoroark's...[http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/1666/spritesu.png] {{unsigned|Megadog}}<br />
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== height ==<br />
<br />
the height and weight of it is 0.6 m and 8.1 kg {{unsigned|Pokemonemerfan1954}}<br />
:Got a source that isn't Serebii? &mdash;'''<span style="font-family:Verdana"><span style="color:#000">darklord</span>[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|<span style="color:#0047AB">trom</span>]]</span>''' 10:57, 13 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Filb.de, trom. '''[[User:Kevzo8|<font color="#66CCCC">K</font><font color="#70DBDB">e</font><font color="#ADEAEA">v</font>]][[User_talk:Kevzo8|<font color="#ADEAEA">z</font><font color="#70DBDB">o</font><font color="#66CCCC">8</font>]]''' 13:36, 13 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Acceptable Speculation? ==<br />
Is it alright to add in details that have been present for all of the Pokemon starters so far; such as EXP At Level 100, EXP Yield, and Gender Ratio? After four generations of Pokemon games having them identical, it's highly unlikely to be different this time. [[User:Plasma|Plasma]] 11:36, 13 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Passing off unsourced speculation as fact is bad. &mdash;'''<span style="font-family:Verdana"><span style="color:#000">darklord</span>[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|<span style="color:#0047AB">trom</span>]]</span>''' 11:45, 13 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:: You say that, but the starters all have National Dex numbers (494, etc.). Where does ''that'' information come from? I know it's an educated guess, but at the moment it's still just a guess. The same goes for the types - do we know they're all pure types? ~ [[User:Serial Colour|Serial Colour]] 13:46, 13 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::We know at least one of their types. So we put that. '''[[User:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#FF0000">''TTE''</span>]][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 18:28, 13 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Should we at least list their secondary types as {{type2|???}} to indicate that we only know their primary types? -[[User:KinCryos|KinCryos]] 07:19, 1 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Name romanization ==<br />
<br />
Why are we romanizing the name as "Tsutaaja"? {{bp|Manual of style/Romanization}} states that macrons should be used instead of doubling letters, unless the trademarked romanization begs to differ. And there is no trademarked romanization (I scoured the trademark database last night) - we don't even have official confirmation that these ''are'' the starters' names.<br />
<br />
I mean, I personally don't like macrons, but shouldn't we romanize it as "Tsutāja," as per the MoS? <span style="border: 2px dotted #FFBBDD;">[[User:Umeko|<span style="color:#FF99CC;">梅子</span>]][[User talk:Umeko|<span style="color:#FF99CC;"><sup>❀</sup></span>]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|<span style="color:#FF99CC;"><sub>✿</sub></span>]]</span> 17:45, 13 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Most people would link to the redirect anyway... '''[[User:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#FF0000">''TTE''</span>]][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 17:57, 13 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Shouldn't we just call it Tsutaja? When {{p|Piplup|Pocchama}} was first revealed it was just romanized as Pochama on this site. [[User:Taromon777|<span style="color:turquoise; font-family:Arial">'''T a r o m o n'''</span>]] 21:47, 13 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::It's not going to stick this way anyway, I'd just leave it. Unless we rename the page [http://kotaku.com/5538319/pokemons-smugleaf-a-meme-in-the-making/ Smugleaf]. - [[User:DanPMK|MK]] (<sup>[[User Talk:DanPMK|t]]</sup>/<sub>[[Special:contributions/DanPMK|c]]</sub>) 03:22, 14 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::::No, we should use this name 'tsutaaja' till we don't gate its official English name..! -{{u|Amitrc7th}}<br />
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:::::FYI, this site would prefer to use trademarked romaji if it's available. We never romanized ポッチャマ as Potchama or Pocchama because we were given both the official katakana and the official romaji (Pochama) on the same day. We should have official romaji soon, and I'm pretty sure that no official romaji has ever used a macron, so this whole issue should be a moot point soon. [[User:Drapion|Drapion]] 06:59, 15 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Height and Weight ==<br />
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Got this from Pokebeach:<br />
<br />
Height: 0.6m (2ft)<br />
<br />
Weight: 8.1kg (17.9Ibs) --[[User:Dialgafan1|Dialgafan1]] 00:02, 14 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Well, you don't really have to look at pokebeach for that one. You can just look at the scans. XD<br />
:But yeah, those (in metric system) are accurate. And I don't really understand why haven't anyone added those. o_O They added the ability and species, but those are on the very same scan as height and weight. Also, the name origin is pretty much a given already. Can someone add all those, please?--[[User:KurowaSan|KurowaSan]] 04:56, 14 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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<br />
== In the anime ==<br />
Tsutarja, is a reptile-based [[Grass-type]] [[starter]] Pokémon. Since [[Ash Ketchum]] (Satoshi) has captured all the Grass-type starters and most of reptile-like Pokémons, it is highly possible that he will get this Pokémon somehow in Black and White saga (if he is going to appear in this anime saga). -{{u|Amitrc7th}}<br />
:That's speculation. Bulbapedia has rules against speculation, so it won't be added to the page until he catches it (if he does). By the way, please put new comments at the bottom of the page. <sc>[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</sc> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 08:47, 14 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Please bring these conversation to the forums.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#DAA520">'''F'''</span>]][[Ho-Oh (Pokémon)|<span style="color:#DAA520">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#C0C0C0">'''F'''</span>]][[Lugia (Pokémon)|<span style="color:#C0C0C0">ire</span>]] 10:24, 14 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Sprite ==<br />
<br />
Here's the sprite I uploaded onto Bulbagarden Archives from CoroCoro: [[User:Dialgafan1|Dialgafan1]] 18:44, 14 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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[[File:SpriteTstuaaja.png|thumb|right]]<br />
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== This needs to be moved. ==<br />
<br />
To Tsutāja. You know, long a's and stuff. [[User:Vik0z0z|vik0z0z]] 19:45, 14 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I believe that the reason the article is at Tsutaaja for the time being is that we want to avoid using extraneous characters whenever possible in page titles. For some reason, it puts a strain on the server. At least, that's what I recall us deciding awhile back... I could be wrong, though. Either way, the double "a" indicates the same sound without the special character. --[[User:Politoed666|<span style="color:#00B7EB">''P''</span> <span style="color:#008080">''o''</span>]] [[User talk:Politoed666|<span style="color:#0095B6">''L''</span> <span style="color:#00CCCC">''i''</span>]] 19:48, 14 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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==Origin==<br />
Haven't you noted Tsutaaja's striking resemblance to {{wp|Uroplatus phantasticus|this gecko}}? A reptile with a tail that looks like a leaf. It has rather huge eyes, too, just like Tsutaaja. - [[User:D-Wheel|D-Wheel]] 21:34, 14 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Eh it's a possibility, but since it's a "snake" Pokémon I doubt it...<i><b>[[User:.insomniac.|<font color="#893BFF">«ιɴ</font><font color="#8E35EF">sσ</font>]]<font color="#461B7E">м</font>[[User_talk:.insomniac.|<font color="#8E35EF">ɴι</font><font color="#893BFF">αc»</font>]]</b></i> 07:35, 15 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
::But do we have any snakes that also have a leaf-like tail? Sure snakes with legs exist, but Tsutaaja does seem to have characteristics of both snakes and lizards. I don't think this debate will ever end... [[User:Mudkipchan|Mudkipchan]] 16:33, 15 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::Hey look, it's a {{p|Treecko}}. [[User:M190049|'''''~m190049''''']]<sup>[[User talk:M190049|'''''~talk''''']]</sup> 00:42, 16 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::I really think this might be a [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass_Snake glass snake]. They're actually lizards, but they resemble snakes. The leafy tail must be just decoration. :P -- [[User:Pro-mole|Professional Mole]] ([[User talk:Pro-mole|<small>Talk here</small>]]) 14:04, 22 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:We will know more about this Pokémon come the English-language release (or, if we're lucky, the Jp release). Until then we will go on the most vague sort of information we've got. &mdash;'''<span style="font-family:Verdana"><span style="color:#000">darklord</span>[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|<span style="color:#0047AB">trom</span>]]</span>''' 06:46, 23 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Physiology ==<br />
<br />
"Tsutaaja is a Grass-type lizard-like Pokémon. "<br />
That should read "Tsutaaja is a Grass-type Snake Pokemon" or "snake-like Pokemon"<br />
<br />
It's Japanese name and species name clearly define it as a snake, regardless of whether or not it has legs, officially, it is a snake. -Daisuke<br />
:Appearance wise, it's a lizard.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#DAA520">'''F'''</span>]][[Ho-Oh (Pokémon)|<span style="color:#DAA520">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#C0C0C0">'''F'''</span>]][[Lugia (Pokémon)|<span style="color:#C0C0C0">ire</span>]] 04:16, 15 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Not necesarilly. There ''are'' types of snakes with legs. If anyone has a list of animals at Cairns Zoo in Queensland, Australia, they have them there. [[User:Reign|Reign]] 08:05, 15 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Name dispute ==<br />
<br />
As stated [http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/showthread.php?t=63621 here], http://www.pokabu.com/ and http://www.mijumaru.com/ are both correctly registered by TPCi, but there's no tsutaaja.com. There is a correctly registered http://www.tsutarja.com/ though. This is the closest we'll get right now to a trademarked name, and this romanization has been used on other sites before. Should this be changed?--'''[[User:Immewnity|<span style="color:#88AADD">''immewnity''</span>]][[User talk:Immewnity|<span style="color:#627DB7">the</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Immewnity|<span style="color:#335577">mew</span>]]''' 18:21, 15 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Meh, I say keep it as it is, and create Tsutarja as a redirect. [[User:CuboneKing|<font color="Red">Cu</font>]][[User talk:CuboneKing|<font color="Tan">bo</font>]][[Special:Contributions/CuboneKing|<font color="Green color light">ne</font>]][[Cubone (Pokémon)|<font color="Black">King</font>]] 18:25, 15 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
::How come? That was a fandone romanization, while this one's official.--'''[[User:Immewnity|<span style="color:#88AADD">''immewnity''</span>]][[User talk:Immewnity|<span style="color:#627DB7">the</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Immewnity|<span style="color:#335577">mew</span>]]''' 18:39, 15 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::Aren't all romanizations fandone at heart? [[User:CuboneKing|<font color="Red">Cu</font>]][[User talk:CuboneKing|<font color="Tan">bo</font>]][[Special:Contributions/CuboneKing|<font color="Green color light">ne</font>]][[Cubone (Pokémon)|<font color="Black">King</font>]] 18:56, 15 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::...no... It's called [[List of Japanese Pokémon names|trademarked romaji]].--'''[[User:Immewnity|<span style="color:#88AADD">''immewnity''</span>]][[User talk:Immewnity|<span style="color:#627DB7">the</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Immewnity|<span style="color:#335577">mew</span>]]''' 19:00, 15 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::Hm, it seems then that it is Tsutarja. '''[[User:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#FF0000">''TTE''</span>]][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 20:00, 15 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
As well, Filb is calling the Pokémon Tsutāja. Is this just another romanization of the name? –'''[[User:MasterKenobi|<span style="color:#000">Master</span>]][[User talk:MasterKenobi|<span style="color:#0000CC">Kenobi</span>]]''' 05:52, 16 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Yes. <span style="border: 2px dotted #FFBBDD;">[[User:Umeko|<span style="color:#FF99CC;">梅子</span>]][[User talk:Umeko|<span style="color:#FF99CC;"><sup>❀</sup></span>]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|<span style="color:#FF99CC;"><sub>✿</sub></span>]]</span> 05:57, 16 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
::I still don't understand. It's written Tsutaaja, on the show they pronounce it Tsutaaja, there's no other way to read it than Tsutaaja...But they call its Tsutarja? There's a big difference. If it was Tsutarja, it would probably be ツタアルジャ, not ツタアージャ. --[[User:Raktoner|Raktoner]] 19:45, 17 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::No, that is not how it works. <span style="border: 2px dotted #FFBBDD;">[[User:Umeko|<span style="color:#FF99CC;">梅子</span>]][[User talk:Umeko|<span style="color:#FF99CC;"><sup>❀</sup></span>]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|<span style="color:#FF99CC;"><sub>✿</sub></span>]]</span> 19:46, 17 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::They ''did'' pronounce it as "tah-jah" on Pokemon Sunday though. If that means anything. [[User:M190049|'''''~m190049''''']]<sup>[[User talk:M190049|'''''~talk''''']]</sup> 23:49, 17 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::Five char limit in Pokemon, even if they changed the limit for JP games... it wouldn't be ツタアージャ (romanized as "Tsutaa'aja", I believe?), and "アー" can be romanized as an "ar" sometimes. Also... I'm pretty sure they also pronounced "Pocket Monsters" as "poketto monsutaa" on Pokesun (from what I can hear anyway, they talk too faaaaaast). So yeah. D: ▫▫'''[[User:Tina|<span style="color:#e072a9;">ティナ</span>]]'''<sup>[[User talk:Tina|<span style="color:#728084;">♫</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Tina|<span style="color:#728084;">★</span>]]</sup> 00:03, 18 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::Actually there isn't a big difference between Tsutaaja and Tsutarja. It's called a [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhotic_and_non-rhotic_accents non-rhotic] r. You may have noticed that people from London or Boston tend to not pronounce the letter r when it's and the end of a word or before a consonant. Well, in Japanese the r sound can only ever come before a vowel, so when the letter r is at the end of a word or before a consonant they tend to approximate the sound with a long a, sometimes written aa. Take my name, Peter, for example. Someone from London or Boston would probably drop the r sound at the end, and likewise the Japanese approximate it as ピーター and pronounce it Piitaa. R's before consonants or at the ends of words are almost always approximated by a long a and not a ル. {{unsigned|Drapion}}<br />
::::Exactly, what Drapion said! I still pronounce it the same!--[[User:Pokelova|<span style="color:#DAA520">''Poké''</span>]][[User talk:Pokelova|<span style="color:#C0C0C0">lova!</span>]] 07:51, 18 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::Actually, that's really interesting. And to think I put a rant about this on pokecharms the other day... But you're right. I just think it's a little on the odd side is all, I guess. --[[User:Raktoner|Raktoner]] 22:35, 18 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::Heh yeah the whole thing is sort of strange. Basically they're using an english-ish pronunciation and putting that into Japanese. Using ā for ar/er is common for this. Hamburger is ハンバーガー (hanbāgā), Earnest is アーネスト (ānesuto), Schumaker is シュメイカー (shumeikā), etc. - [[User:DanPMK|MK]] (<sup>[[User Talk:DanPMK|t]]</sup>/<sub>[[Special:contributions/DanPMK|c]]</sub>) 03:10, 22 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Bird of Paradise Flower ==<br />
<br />
I know that the new pokemon is based on a grass snake, but if you look at it's snout and it's tail, it reminds me of a {{wp|Strelitzia}} a.k.a. the Bird of Paradise Flower. I know that this is a foolish question, but I suggest that you should put that in to what the new pokemon is based of in Origin? - [[User:Cynthia149]] 09:12, 25 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I believe this got a "no" when you suggested it before... <span style="border: 2px dotted #FFBBDD;">[[User:Umeko|<span style="color:#FF99CC;">梅子</span>]][[User talk:Umeko|<span style="color:#FF99CC;"><sup>❀</sup></span>]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|<span style="color:#FF99CC;"><sub>✿</sub></span>]]</span> 18:56, 25 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:: I contacted that question to [[User:TTEchidna]] weeks ago, and he said that the origin will be changed when more info is unleashed. You have a look at the flower when the pod is closed, and then you will see the resembelence to this new Pokemon. - [[User:Cynthia149]] 20:46, 25 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::If that's what he said, then that's what we're going by. We have not gotten any more information on the starters since then. <span style="border: 2px dotted #FFBBDD;">[[User:Umeko|<span style="color:#FF99CC;">梅子</span>]][[User talk:Umeko|<span style="color:#FF99CC;"><sup>❀</sup></span>]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|<span style="color:#FF99CC;"><sub>✿</sub></span>]]</span> 19:51, 25 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::When the information is ''unleashed''? Is it going to turn into a [[wp:Sonic Unleashed|werewolf?]] -[[User:Sketch|Sketch]] 23:58, 27 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Moves==<br />
<br />
According to a video, This pokemon either used Razor Leaf or Leaf Storm, I am not sure which...[[User:Chomi|Chomi]] 09:22, 31 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:It's Leaf Storm, to clarify. ▫▫'''[[User:Tina|<span style="color:#e072a9;">ティナ</span>]]'''<sup>[[User talk:Tina|<span style="color:#728084;">♫</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Tina|<span style="color:#728084;">★</span>]]</sup> 14:38, 31 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:But we don't know what level it learns it at, so there's not really anywhere we can put it in the article.--[[User:Pokelova|<span style="color:#DAA520">''Poké''</span>]][[User talk:Pokelova|<span style="color:#C0C0C0">lova!</span>]] 15:03, 31 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Physiology to be added by admins ==<br />
<br />
I wrote up a physical description of Tsutarja for the Physiology section, since as of now it's pretty sparce. I know there's certain info that can't be added as of now, but I don't see why we can't have basic appearance descriptions. Besides, Pokabu has a much more extensive Physiology section. It's up for use if someone wants to add it.<br />
<br />
"Tsutarja is a reptilian Grass-type Pokémon. Most of its body is green in coloration, while it has a cream-colored underside. A yellow stripe runs down the length of its back and tail, and it also has yellow markings around its large eyes. Yellow, curved structures protrude from its shoulders and bend backwards. These structures resemble leaves or small wings and give Tsutarja the appearance of wearing a collar. In spite of being snake-like in appearance, it has fully-developed limbs. Its slender arms are the same green color as the rest of its body and have three fingers, while its tiny feet match its underside in coloration and have no digits whatsoever. It has large, palmate leaf with three prongs on the end of its tail.<br />
<br />
[[User:Togeknight|~Destruction on Wings~]] 02:21, 25 June 2010 (UTC)Togeknight<br />
<br />
== First Evolution? ==<br />
<br />
In the recent Black/White Anime series leak on [http://bulbanews.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Anime_season_title_revealed Bulbanews], an image was released that includes what looks to be first evolutions for, at the very least, Tsutarja and Mijumaru. I think Pokabu's first evolution is there as well next to the new female character. Either way, is there any way to crop down those images and place them in the articles, or is this a case of "wait for clearer images?" --[[User:Phantomjunkie|Phantomjunkie]] 17:27, 1 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
that thing looks nothing like pokabu...even more so than the whole remoraid octillery thing ([[User:Ataro|Ataro]] 17:30, 1 July 2010 (UTC))<br />
:This is both a case of clearer images. Anything like that would be speculation. It may look the same, but may not be related. We'd need further confirmation. ''[[User:Maverick Nate|<sup style="color:#00008B;">'''Maverick'''</sup>]][[User talk:Maverick Nate|<sub style="color:#00008B;">'''Nate'''</sub>]]'' 17:31, 1 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
Tsutarja's evolution's name is Kenayake (ケナャーケ) [[User:Vkickass|Vkickass]] 21:05, 1 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Even the biggest scans I can find of them are too small for them to be sharpened and still be readable, but the katakana would be ケナヤーケ, not ケナャーケ, which is Kenayaake, but if it follows Tsutarja, it's probably gonna be Kenayarke. --[[User:Goldenpelt|Goldenpelt]] 23:38, 12 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::I'm pretty sure it says Tsutakake (ツタケーク), but even if that what it says, we have absolutely no idea if that's the final name for it. (I say this because, on the character sheet in question, Tsutarja is called "Ivy" and Mijumaru is called something like "Rakkomaru." Uhh...?) <span style="border: 2px dotted #FFBBDD;">[[User:Umeko|<span style="color:#FF99CC;">梅子</span>]][[User talk:Umeko|<span style="color:#FF99CC;"><sup>❀</sup></span>]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|<span style="color:#FF99CC;"><sub>✿</sub></span>]]</span> 00:04, 13 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::I suggest we leave the matter alone until something official pops up. The character sheet's names are small, and up to interpretation. And even if we manage to find which translation is correct, the name could change at any time. And to that point, the design itself could change since it appeared on beta artwork.--[[User:Element03|Element03]] 00:56, 13 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Yes, but this was beta artwork for the ''animé'', not the games. I'm sure the finalized versions of the Pokémon were set long before that beta artwork was released.--[[User:Phantomjunkie|<span style="color:red">Phantom</span>]][[User talk:Phantomjunkie|<span style="color:black">junkie</span>]] 01:19, 13 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Smugleaf ==<br />
<br />
Since we mentioned the "so i herd u liek mudkipz" internet meme in the trivia section on Mudkip's page, should we mention the "Smugleaf" internet meme in the trivia page for this article? - [[User:Gold Dialga|Gold Dialga]]<br />
:Because "so i herd u like mudkipz" was added to Mudkips trivia it would make sens to put it in there. But do the admins realy want information on something as unofficial as memes? I think it would be best to wait for a response from a member of the Bulbagarden staff. [[User:EpicShadow|EpicShadow]] 2:36, 18 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::How far has this new meme spread? "so i herd u liek mudkipz" was a well established meme by the time we added it. Does this even come close? --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] 19:47, 18 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::I beleve it was created by a youtuber calld IAMTHEOBNXIOUSDOUCHE. It has three vidios making it a small series, all three vidios currantly have together have 8188 veiws. The first vidio was posted two months ago. The only article I've seen about it anywher els (there may be more outside of this) is KOTAKU who apparently claimed it as there own creation. In short it is not very well known but it is growing.[[User:EpicShadow|EpicShadow]] 3:21, 18 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::It's spread to a forum populated almost entirely by Sonic fans, and the users of that forum will probably be referring to it as Smugleaf until the English name is revealed. I think that's pretty far for a Pokémon-related internet meme. - [[User:Gold Dialga|Gold Dialga]]<br />
:::::If thats true would it be right to say that the meme had earnd it the nickname Smugleaf, because that may be a piece of trivia to mention in the future. (assuming that the official name does not actualy become Smugleaf wich it most likely will not) [[User:EpicShadow|EpicShadow]] 3:59, 18 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::Basically, most people know Tsutarja as Smugleaf. Its far easier to say/type, and has become widespread. It started literally the first day the starters were announced. <sub style="color:#00008B;">'''[[User:Blake|Blake]]'''</sub> <sup>[[User talk:Blake#top|Talk]]·[[Special:Contributions/Blake|Edits]]</sup> 23:15, 18 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::::But that still makes it a fan-made nickname, should we mention it in the trivia section or leave it alone?[[User:EpicShadow|EpicShadow]] 7:52, 18 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::::I say we mention it in trivia - [[User:Gold Dialga|Gold Dialga]]<br />
:::::::::So hey, who remembers the fan nicknames that were given to the fourth-gen starters before their English names were revealed?<br />
:::::::::...Yeah, that's right, neither do I. And four years from now, I'll bet no one will remember "Smugleaf" either. So, I say not notable. <span style="border: 2px dotted #FFBBDD;">[[User:Umeko|<span style="color:#FF99CC;">梅子</span>]][[User talk:Umeko|<span style="color:#FF99CC;"><sup>❀</sup></span>]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|<span style="color:#FF99CC;"><sub>✿</sub></span>]]</span> 02:43, 19 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/smugleaf --[[User:Shiny Noctowl|<font color="black"><small>S</small><sup>h</sup><small>i</small><sub>n</sub><small>y</small> <sup>N</sup><small>o</small><sub>c</sub><small>t</small><sup>o</sup><small>w</small><sub>l</sub></font>]] 02:56, 19 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::::Maybe we should wait until this nickname becomes a little more widespread. The point at which it would be considered widespread enough to add to the page could be decided by the Bulbapedia staff. [[User:Steph|Steph]] 03:06, 19 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::::: The nickname isn't the real dispute its the meme based on a youtube vidio that we thougt should be put in. [[User:EpicShadow|EpicShadow]] 10:11, 19 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Can we please just drop it until, as {{u|Steph}} says, things are handled a bit better in the sense we wait? [[User:Ht14|<span style="color:#DAA520"><sup>'''''ht'''''</sup></span>]][[User talk:Ht14|<span style="color:#C0C0C0"><small>''14''</small></span>]] 03:13, 19 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::::::Everywhere I looked when the Gen4 starters were released, they were referred to by their Japanese name. Tsutarja, however, seems to carry the name Smugleaf with it everywhere it goes. It's a very widespread nickname from what I can tell. I've yet to meet any Pokémon fan who doesn't refere to it by this nickname so I see no reason for it to be exluded from the trivia section. Less significant things have made it into articals before and stuck. However, this so-called youtube meme... I've never heard of it.[[User:Me, Hurray!|Me, Hurray!]] 02:08, 16 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
::If it's name does turn out to be Smugleaf, it'll go down. Just wait. [[User:CuboneKing|<font color="Red">Cu</font>]][[User talk:CuboneKing|<font color="Tan">bo</font>]][[Special:Contributions/CuboneKing|<font color="Green color light">ne</font>]][[Cubone (Pokémon)|<font color="Black">King</font>]] 02:53, 16 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::I think it could be added after we get an English name. Also, I think it should be noted that the name was mentioned in my Official Nintendo Magazine Australia and New Zealand as a popular fan name. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 07:17, 17 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Pics or it didn't happen. &mdash;'''<span style="font-family:Verdana"><span style="color:#000">darklord</span>[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|<span style="color:#0047AB">trom</span>]]</span>''' 07:22, 17 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::[http://i523.photobucket.com/albums/w355/SnorlaxMonster/IMG.jpg] It's too big for the archives, so I uploaded it to Photobucket. Pics prove it. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 12:55, 17 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::No idea that magazine even existed. I really only wanted the pics for the proof of the magazine :D Can you write an article on it? Also... [[a:File:NZAU Magazine Scan.jpg|I think I might just be awesome. Or something]] :D &mdash;'''<span style="font-family:Verdana"><span style="color:#000">darklord</span>[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|<span style="color:#0047AB">trom</span>]]</span>''' 07:53, 18 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===English name===<br />
I bet it's "Snivy" or something, like all other Pokémon have similar English and Japanese name meanings. And you all are getting worked up over nothing. When stuff becomes notable, they will acknowledge it. After all, remember that hype in May of 2009? They picked up on it. They knew we wanted it. And then they announced it. '''[[User:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#FF0000">''TTE''</span>]][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 05:11, 4 September 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== About its National number ==<br />
<br />
Yes. We know. {{p|Victini}} is #000 in the Isshu dex. This means nothing right now about its National number. Think of it this way: they put Victini at #000 so that you'd not know right off the bat getting it how many other Pokémon there are to find, especially given that it's gonna be an early event, like Manaphy. If you got Mew just after you got your starter in RBY, you'd know there's 151 Pokémon in Kanto. Same with Celebi in GSC, Deoxys in RSE, and so on. This is a failsafe to make Pokémon feel less like "let's see how many they added" and more like "oh, there's so many of these things, I wonder what they all are...". Sure, futile anyway, given that we'll likely have access to the games and have figured out everything by the day after it comes out... but still. An admirable solution to that huge-empty-Pokédex problem we've had since Gen I.<br />
<br />
Tsutarja, until further notice, is staying at #494. We cannot assume anything different than it directly following Arceus, just as Chikorita followed Mew, Treecko followed Celebi, and Turtwig followed Deoxys. '''[[User:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#FF0000">''TTE''</span>]][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 00:55, 25 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I completely agree.--[[User:Pokelova|<span style="color:#DAA520">''Poké''</span>]][[User talk:Pokelova|<span style="color:#C0C0C0">lova!</span>]] 01:07, 25 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Poor Origin Species Choice ==<br />
<br />
The Origin Section on Tsutarja's page lables it as "[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opheodrys_aestivus Opheodrys aestivus], more commonly known as the rough green snake or green grass snake". I honsetly STRONGLY disagree with this noition. Other than the somewhat-similar color scheme, there's not TOO much in common- the face is WAY too different. I think that Tsutarja is MUCH more likely based on a somewhat-popular species [http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/03/Oxybelis_fulgidus_4.jpg known] [http://www.naturfoto-cz.de/photos/sevcik/green-vine-snake--oxybelis-fulgidus.jpg as the] [http://travel.mongabay.com/animals/080923/600/brnxz_711.jpg Vine] [http://www.jmg-galleries.com/blog_images/best_photos_2009/9_TRAVEL_COSTARICA_JMG9804_c.jpeg Snake]. The Vine Snake is a snake species found all throughout the Americas. Specifically notice the very similar ''pointed nose'', that the Rough Green Snake notably lacks. Also note the similar nostril and the very sharp line that passes straight through it's eye. ...Thoughts? [[User:M190049|'''''~m190049''''']]<sup>[[User talk:M190049|'''''~talk''''']]</sup> 04:25, 6 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I think you may be right.--[[User:Pokelova|<span style="color:#DAA520">''Poké''</span>]][[User talk:Pokelova|<span style="color:#C0C0C0">lova!</span>]] 04:29, 6 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== evolutionary lvls ==<br />
<br />
Shouldn't we write evolves at lvl 16 and will evolve a second time at 36. or somthing along thoes lines. Becasue we all know thoes are the evolutionary levles for all starters.--[[User:Megamaxxor|<span style="color:#0047AB">'''''Mega'''''</span>]][[User talk:Megamaxxor|<span style="color:#E5E4E2">'''maxxor'''</span>]]-- 00:07, 8 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Confirmation. We need it before we add anything to the articles.--[[User:Phantomjunkie|<span style="color:red">Phantom</span>]][[User talk:Phantomjunkie|<span style="color:black">Junkie</span>]] 00:09, 8 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Monferno: evolves from Chimchar at 14. Grotle: evolves from Turtwig at 18 and into Torterra at 32. So yeah, it isn't confirmed without confirmation. [[User:Turtwig A|<font color="#CD7F32">Turtwig's</font>]] [[Turtwig (Pokémon)|<font color="#FF7F00">A-B-Cs</font>]] ([[User talk:Turtwig A|<font color="#green">talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|<font color="#yellow">contribs</font>]]) 00:16, 8 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
NO! Turtwig evolvs at 16 i already checked [[User:Megamaxxor|<span style="color:#0047AB">'''''Mega'''''</span>]][[User talk:Megamaxxor|<span style="color:#E5E4E2">'''maxxor'''</span>]]-- 00:18, 8 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Turtwig is my favorite Pokémon, I should know. Because that isn't proof, see {{p|Turtwig|this article}}. It says Turtwig evolves at 18. I also know because I have a level 17 Turtwig and it never once said it was going to evolve. [[User:Turtwig A|<font color="#CD7F32">Turtwig's</font>]] [[Turtwig (Pokémon)|<font color="#FF7F00">A-B-Cs</font>]] ([[User talk:Turtwig A|<font color="#green">talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|<font color="#yellow">contribs</font>]]) 00:26, 8 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
::{{u|Turtwig A|TA}}'s right. We won't know for sure until its officially revealed. There's nothing wrong with waiting. [[User:Takharii|<span style="color:#FFD733;">'''たか'''</span>]][[User talk:Takharii|<span style="color:#DAA520;">'''はり'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Takharii|<span style="color:#B69E00;">'''い'''</span>]] 00:29, 8 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Trust me, they could break entirely with tradition here. For all we know, all three of this new [[country]]'s starters could evolve for the first time at level 30 and the second time at level 55. Yes, if the previous countries' patterns actually counted for anything, this would suggest that all three starters would evolve first at level 16 and the second time around level 36, but there's no guarantee that the country of Isshu has to adhere to any odd-numbered-generation patterns that the countries of Kanto and Hoenn might have otherwise implied...--[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 00:53, 8 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Anyway, there is no pattern. Currently the starters evolve from level 14-18, then 30-36. There isn't very much consistency, especially not enough for us to assume anything. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 08:10, 8 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Head shaped like Cyndaquil's ==<br />
<br />
I noticed Tsutarja's head is shaped alot like Cyndaquil's head. Would this be worth mentioning in the physiology section? After all, it is also mentioned that Piplup looks a little like Torchic and Pachirisu resembling Pikachu. Also worth mentioning its resemblance to Treecko and all grass starters so far being reptilian? --[[User:Brats817|Brats817]] 10:10, 9 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Uh... no. First of all, I don't see the resemblance. Secondly, in the two cases you cited, the resemblance is far more than superficial. Piplup and Torchic are both small bird Pokémon with ovoid heads, tiny beaks, etc. When you consider that they're the only bird-based starter Pokémon, that can make for worthwhile trivia. Pachirisu and Pikachu are obviously similar—both are electric-type, small rodent Pokémon which store electricity in their cheeks... but Tsutarja is snake-or-lizard-like, while Cyndaquil is like a shrew; their eyes are noticably different... You need a little more to go on than "their heads are vaguely similar in shape (if you squint)." {{unsigned|AndyPKMN}}<br />
<br />
Well the only reason I mentioned it is only because their heads were similar, and that was the only similarity they have and I thought it would be worth mentioning that one similarity. They don't have to be based on the same animal in order to have a similarity somewhere. (Well of course except for color, that isn't enough of a similarity) Tsutarja's head IS similar shaped to Cyndaquil's head, but only the facial features are different, apart from the nose and mouth being in a similar location on their face. If Piplup's head was differently shaped and had different facial features, it probably wouldn't have been compared to Torchic, and if Pachirisu had no cheek pouches, it probably wouldn't be compared with Pikachu. The only other similarity is that they are birds and rodents, but different species. It's like comparing Taillow to Spearow. But if Cyndaquil and Tsutarja's head shape is not enough to mention as it's their one and only similarity, would it still be enough to mention that all grass type starters so far are reptilian? (Probably best to put it in the starter Pokémon section) Oh and you forgot to sign your comment. --[[User:Brats817|Brats817]] 21:51, 9 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I don't see any resemblance at all. I think those other resemblance points should be removed too, save for Lapras/Shellos, as many people did believe they were related by evolution before Gastrodon was revealed. [[User:Turtwig A|<font color="#CD7F32">Turtwig's</font>]] [[Turtwig (Pokémon)|<font color="#FF7F00">A-B-Cs</font>]] ([[User talk:Turtwig A|<font color="#green">talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|<font color="#yellow">contribs</font>]]) 22:04, 9 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Learnset ==<br />
<br />
We have a beggining of Learnset by levelling-up about Tsutarja (as well as [[Pokabu]], [[Mijumaru]], [[Zorua]], [[Zoroark]], [[Reshiram]], [[Zekrom]], [[Moguryu]] and all the other ones) in German at [http://www.pokewiki.de http://www.pokewiki.de] {{unsigned|Wolfy Harfleur 76700}}<br />
<br />
== Chlorophyll ==<br />
<br />
Is it worth noting that even though it's Pokédex entry states that it's movements sharpen in sunlight, it cannot have the ability [[Chlorophyll_(ability)|Chlorophyll]]? {{unsigned|Pawsrent}}<br />
:I don't know. With that new Dream World feature, which gives Pokémon new abilities, Tsutarja could be able to get Chlorophyll as a second ability. [[User:Turtwig A|<font color="#CD7F32">Turtwig's</font>]] [[Turtwig (Pokémon)|<font color="#FF7F00">A-B-Cs</font>]] ([[User talk:Turtwig A|<font color="#green">talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|<font color="#yellow">contribs</font>]]) 20:50, 22 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Updated origin ==<br />
<br />
Tsutarja is most likely based on ''{{wp|Oxybelis fulgidus}}'', a slender snake with a pointed head that inhabits {{wp|Central America}} and {{wp|South America}}. The Pokémon's combination of snake- and lizard-like features is also similar to that of the {{wp|skink}}, more specifically the {{wp|Neoseps}}. Neoseps heavilly resemble snakes but have small, stubby legs. Its head and general body shape, as well as its protrusions on its shoulders, are most likely based on the {{wp|Strelitzia|birds of paradise flowers}} and possibly the {{wp|Heliconia|false birds of paradise}}.<br />
<br />
[[User:050294|050294]] 00:06, 25 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==National Pokedex # ==<br />
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Won't Victini come before it on the national pokedex making it #455?[[User:Captian Obvious|Captian Obvious]] 18:05, 4 September 2010 (UTC)</div>Captian Obvioushttps://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Snivy_(Pok%C3%A9mon)&diff=1176253Talk:Snivy (Pokémon)2010-09-04T18:04:47Z<p>Captian Obvious: /* Pokedex # */ new section</p>
<hr />
<div>{{forums notice|March 31, 2011}}<br />
<br />
== origin ==<br />
Given that the "ja" means "snake" (acording to Pokebeach), I think it is safe to assume that Tsutaaja is based on a snake. Mind putting that in the page? --[[User:Deuxhero|Deuxhero]] 00:54, 13 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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<br />
The same post that told us these names on 2ch, said Tsutaaja is the くさへびポケモン (Grass Snake Pokémon).<br />
Tsuta (蔦) means ivy and Ja is another reading for hebi (蛇), which means snake.--[[User:KurowaSan|KurowaSan]] 01:02, 13 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:How many snakes do you know have feet? I doubt that is a correct translation. ''[[User:Maverick Nate|<sup style="color:#00008B;">'''Maverick'''</sup>]][[User talk:Maverick Nate|<sub style="color:#00008B;">'''Nate'''</sub>]]'' 01:34, 13 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
::The translation is pretty accurate, the source may be not. But the source has nailed the description of the protagonists, the region name, the fact that the other starters were a fire pig and a sea otter before the scans leaked... And I have seen freaky snakes with legs.. XD Mutations nonetheless. And that would be "Grass Snake" as in a snake of/from grass, not as in the real world species "Grass Snake".--[[User:KurowaSan|KurowaSan]] 01:41, 13 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::There actually is a type of snake with legs, albeit really small ones. It's native to Australia, if I remember right. I know they have one at the Cairns Zoo, anyway. [[User:Reign|Reign]] 02:13, 13 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opheodrys_aestivus this doesn't have feet, but it looks like tsutaaja [[User:Kanjo|Kanjo]] 12:38, 13 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxybelis_fulgidus I would sooner assume Tsutaaja is based off of a Vine Snake. In fact, I'd say it's fairly definite. [[User:Flint|Flint]] 20:50, 13 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::: I think Origin should just mention grass snakes (green kind mostly) instead of getting very technical with species, seeing as there is far too many snakes that Tsutaaja may be based on. And maybe that early tidbit of a very few snakes having legs could also be mentioned. And is it just me, or does the collar it has kinda makes it resemble an unripened banana? [[User:Mudkipchan|Mudkipchan]] 21:07, 14 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::: It looks to me as though Tsutaaja may have been based off of a skink of sort, however skinks are closer related to lisards than snakes. I also think because this is a Pokémon that the collaring may have just as likely come from the fact that it is a grass type species. [[User:EpicShadow|EpicShadow]] 9:12, 16 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== bad grammar in the Origin section ==<br />
<br />
Can we fix this?: "Tsutaaja may be based off a lizard or a snake. Its shared traits with boths make it similar to skinks."<br />
It should be "... with both makes it similar...". my dictionary and i are fairly sure "boths" isn't a word and the grammar in that sentence is atrocious anyway. --[[User:Lulu chan126|Lulu chan126]] 22:26, 14 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== images ==<br />
<br />
Uhh, I have the three guys images saved, to upload, if a mod can do that...<br />
[http://img24.imageshack.us/i/497pokabu.png/][http://img219.imageshack.us/i/500mijumaru.png/][http://img10.imageshack.us/i/494tsutaaja.png/] [[User:Megadog|Megadog]] 05:12, 13 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:As do I, but I Beilieve the Admin isn't allowing editing for those Images . . . not that any are even there. --[[User:Lordrogersmith6485|Lordrogersmith6485]] 07:58, 13 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
::I've seen them on Legendary Pokémon fan site. Not sure if it is okay to use them. '''[[User:Kevzo8|<font color="#66CCCC">K</font><font color="#70DBDB">e</font><font color="#ADEAEA">v</font>]][[User_talk:Kevzo8|<font color="#ADEAEA">z</font><font color="#70DBDB">o</font><font color="#66CCCC">8</font>]]''' 13:27, 13 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::sprites too, along with zoroark's...[http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/1666/spritesu.png] {{unsigned|Megadog}}<br />
<br />
== height ==<br />
<br />
the height and weight of it is 0.6 m and 8.1 kg {{unsigned|Pokemonemerfan1954}}<br />
:Got a source that isn't Serebii? &mdash;'''<span style="font-family:Verdana"><span style="color:#000">darklord</span>[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|<span style="color:#0047AB">trom</span>]]</span>''' 10:57, 13 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Filb.de, trom. '''[[User:Kevzo8|<font color="#66CCCC">K</font><font color="#70DBDB">e</font><font color="#ADEAEA">v</font>]][[User_talk:Kevzo8|<font color="#ADEAEA">z</font><font color="#70DBDB">o</font><font color="#66CCCC">8</font>]]''' 13:36, 13 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Acceptable Speculation? ==<br />
Is it alright to add in details that have been present for all of the Pokemon starters so far; such as EXP At Level 100, EXP Yield, and Gender Ratio? After four generations of Pokemon games having them identical, it's highly unlikely to be different this time. [[User:Plasma|Plasma]] 11:36, 13 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Passing off unsourced speculation as fact is bad. &mdash;'''<span style="font-family:Verdana"><span style="color:#000">darklord</span>[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|<span style="color:#0047AB">trom</span>]]</span>''' 11:45, 13 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:: You say that, but the starters all have National Dex numbers (494, etc.). Where does ''that'' information come from? I know it's an educated guess, but at the moment it's still just a guess. The same goes for the types - do we know they're all pure types? ~ [[User:Serial Colour|Serial Colour]] 13:46, 13 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::We know at least one of their types. So we put that. '''[[User:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#FF0000">''TTE''</span>]][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 18:28, 13 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Should we at least list their secondary types as {{type2|???}} to indicate that we only know their primary types? -[[User:KinCryos|KinCryos]] 07:19, 1 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Name romanization ==<br />
<br />
Why are we romanizing the name as "Tsutaaja"? {{bp|Manual of style/Romanization}} states that macrons should be used instead of doubling letters, unless the trademarked romanization begs to differ. And there is no trademarked romanization (I scoured the trademark database last night) - we don't even have official confirmation that these ''are'' the starters' names.<br />
<br />
I mean, I personally don't like macrons, but shouldn't we romanize it as "Tsutāja," as per the MoS? <span style="border: 2px dotted #FFBBDD;">[[User:Umeko|<span style="color:#FF99CC;">梅子</span>]][[User talk:Umeko|<span style="color:#FF99CC;"><sup>❀</sup></span>]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|<span style="color:#FF99CC;"><sub>✿</sub></span>]]</span> 17:45, 13 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Most people would link to the redirect anyway... '''[[User:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#FF0000">''TTE''</span>]][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 17:57, 13 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Shouldn't we just call it Tsutaja? When {{p|Piplup|Pocchama}} was first revealed it was just romanized as Pochama on this site. [[User:Taromon777|<span style="color:turquoise; font-family:Arial">'''T a r o m o n'''</span>]] 21:47, 13 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::It's not going to stick this way anyway, I'd just leave it. Unless we rename the page [http://kotaku.com/5538319/pokemons-smugleaf-a-meme-in-the-making/ Smugleaf]. - [[User:DanPMK|MK]] (<sup>[[User Talk:DanPMK|t]]</sup>/<sub>[[Special:contributions/DanPMK|c]]</sub>) 03:22, 14 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::::No, we should use this name 'tsutaaja' till we don't gate its official English name..! -{{u|Amitrc7th}}<br />
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:::::FYI, this site would prefer to use trademarked romaji if it's available. We never romanized ポッチャマ as Potchama or Pocchama because we were given both the official katakana and the official romaji (Pochama) on the same day. We should have official romaji soon, and I'm pretty sure that no official romaji has ever used a macron, so this whole issue should be a moot point soon. [[User:Drapion|Drapion]] 06:59, 15 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Height and Weight ==<br />
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Got this from Pokebeach:<br />
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Height: 0.6m (2ft)<br />
<br />
Weight: 8.1kg (17.9Ibs) --[[User:Dialgafan1|Dialgafan1]] 00:02, 14 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:Well, you don't really have to look at pokebeach for that one. You can just look at the scans. XD<br />
:But yeah, those (in metric system) are accurate. And I don't really understand why haven't anyone added those. o_O They added the ability and species, but those are on the very same scan as height and weight. Also, the name origin is pretty much a given already. Can someone add all those, please?--[[User:KurowaSan|KurowaSan]] 04:56, 14 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== In the anime ==<br />
Tsutarja, is a reptile-based [[Grass-type]] [[starter]] Pokémon. Since [[Ash Ketchum]] (Satoshi) has captured all the Grass-type starters and most of reptile-like Pokémons, it is highly possible that he will get this Pokémon somehow in Black and White saga (if he is going to appear in this anime saga). -{{u|Amitrc7th}}<br />
:That's speculation. Bulbapedia has rules against speculation, so it won't be added to the page until he catches it (if he does). By the way, please put new comments at the bottom of the page. <sc>[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</sc> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 08:47, 14 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Please bring these conversation to the forums.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#DAA520">'''F'''</span>]][[Ho-Oh (Pokémon)|<span style="color:#DAA520">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#C0C0C0">'''F'''</span>]][[Lugia (Pokémon)|<span style="color:#C0C0C0">ire</span>]] 10:24, 14 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Sprite ==<br />
<br />
Here's the sprite I uploaded onto Bulbagarden Archives from CoroCoro: [[User:Dialgafan1|Dialgafan1]] 18:44, 14 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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[[File:SpriteTstuaaja.png|thumb|right]]<br />
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== This needs to be moved. ==<br />
<br />
To Tsutāja. You know, long a's and stuff. [[User:Vik0z0z|vik0z0z]] 19:45, 14 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:I believe that the reason the article is at Tsutaaja for the time being is that we want to avoid using extraneous characters whenever possible in page titles. For some reason, it puts a strain on the server. At least, that's what I recall us deciding awhile back... I could be wrong, though. Either way, the double "a" indicates the same sound without the special character. --[[User:Politoed666|<span style="color:#00B7EB">''P''</span> <span style="color:#008080">''o''</span>]] [[User talk:Politoed666|<span style="color:#0095B6">''L''</span> <span style="color:#00CCCC">''i''</span>]] 19:48, 14 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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==Origin==<br />
Haven't you noted Tsutaaja's striking resemblance to {{wp|Uroplatus phantasticus|this gecko}}? A reptile with a tail that looks like a leaf. It has rather huge eyes, too, just like Tsutaaja. - [[User:D-Wheel|D-Wheel]] 21:34, 14 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Eh it's a possibility, but since it's a "snake" Pokémon I doubt it...<i><b>[[User:.insomniac.|<font color="#893BFF">«ιɴ</font><font color="#8E35EF">sσ</font>]]<font color="#461B7E">м</font>[[User_talk:.insomniac.|<font color="#8E35EF">ɴι</font><font color="#893BFF">αc»</font>]]</b></i> 07:35, 15 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
::But do we have any snakes that also have a leaf-like tail? Sure snakes with legs exist, but Tsutaaja does seem to have characteristics of both snakes and lizards. I don't think this debate will ever end... [[User:Mudkipchan|Mudkipchan]] 16:33, 15 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::Hey look, it's a {{p|Treecko}}. [[User:M190049|'''''~m190049''''']]<sup>[[User talk:M190049|'''''~talk''''']]</sup> 00:42, 16 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::I really think this might be a [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass_Snake glass snake]. They're actually lizards, but they resemble snakes. The leafy tail must be just decoration. :P -- [[User:Pro-mole|Professional Mole]] ([[User talk:Pro-mole|<small>Talk here</small>]]) 14:04, 22 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:We will know more about this Pokémon come the English-language release (or, if we're lucky, the Jp release). Until then we will go on the most vague sort of information we've got. &mdash;'''<span style="font-family:Verdana"><span style="color:#000">darklord</span>[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|<span style="color:#0047AB">trom</span>]]</span>''' 06:46, 23 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Physiology ==<br />
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"Tsutaaja is a Grass-type lizard-like Pokémon. "<br />
That should read "Tsutaaja is a Grass-type Snake Pokemon" or "snake-like Pokemon"<br />
<br />
It's Japanese name and species name clearly define it as a snake, regardless of whether or not it has legs, officially, it is a snake. -Daisuke<br />
:Appearance wise, it's a lizard.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#DAA520">'''F'''</span>]][[Ho-Oh (Pokémon)|<span style="color:#DAA520">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#C0C0C0">'''F'''</span>]][[Lugia (Pokémon)|<span style="color:#C0C0C0">ire</span>]] 04:16, 15 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Not necesarilly. There ''are'' types of snakes with legs. If anyone has a list of animals at Cairns Zoo in Queensland, Australia, they have them there. [[User:Reign|Reign]] 08:05, 15 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Name dispute ==<br />
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As stated [http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/showthread.php?t=63621 here], http://www.pokabu.com/ and http://www.mijumaru.com/ are both correctly registered by TPCi, but there's no tsutaaja.com. There is a correctly registered http://www.tsutarja.com/ though. This is the closest we'll get right now to a trademarked name, and this romanization has been used on other sites before. Should this be changed?--'''[[User:Immewnity|<span style="color:#88AADD">''immewnity''</span>]][[User talk:Immewnity|<span style="color:#627DB7">the</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Immewnity|<span style="color:#335577">mew</span>]]''' 18:21, 15 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Meh, I say keep it as it is, and create Tsutarja as a redirect. [[User:CuboneKing|<font color="Red">Cu</font>]][[User talk:CuboneKing|<font color="Tan">bo</font>]][[Special:Contributions/CuboneKing|<font color="Green color light">ne</font>]][[Cubone (Pokémon)|<font color="Black">King</font>]] 18:25, 15 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
::How come? That was a fandone romanization, while this one's official.--'''[[User:Immewnity|<span style="color:#88AADD">''immewnity''</span>]][[User talk:Immewnity|<span style="color:#627DB7">the</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Immewnity|<span style="color:#335577">mew</span>]]''' 18:39, 15 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::Aren't all romanizations fandone at heart? [[User:CuboneKing|<font color="Red">Cu</font>]][[User talk:CuboneKing|<font color="Tan">bo</font>]][[Special:Contributions/CuboneKing|<font color="Green color light">ne</font>]][[Cubone (Pokémon)|<font color="Black">King</font>]] 18:56, 15 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::...no... It's called [[List of Japanese Pokémon names|trademarked romaji]].--'''[[User:Immewnity|<span style="color:#88AADD">''immewnity''</span>]][[User talk:Immewnity|<span style="color:#627DB7">the</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Immewnity|<span style="color:#335577">mew</span>]]''' 19:00, 15 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::Hm, it seems then that it is Tsutarja. '''[[User:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#FF0000">''TTE''</span>]][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 20:00, 15 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
As well, Filb is calling the Pokémon Tsutāja. Is this just another romanization of the name? –'''[[User:MasterKenobi|<span style="color:#000">Master</span>]][[User talk:MasterKenobi|<span style="color:#0000CC">Kenobi</span>]]''' 05:52, 16 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Yes. <span style="border: 2px dotted #FFBBDD;">[[User:Umeko|<span style="color:#FF99CC;">梅子</span>]][[User talk:Umeko|<span style="color:#FF99CC;"><sup>❀</sup></span>]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|<span style="color:#FF99CC;"><sub>✿</sub></span>]]</span> 05:57, 16 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
::I still don't understand. It's written Tsutaaja, on the show they pronounce it Tsutaaja, there's no other way to read it than Tsutaaja...But they call its Tsutarja? There's a big difference. If it was Tsutarja, it would probably be ツタアルジャ, not ツタアージャ. --[[User:Raktoner|Raktoner]] 19:45, 17 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::No, that is not how it works. <span style="border: 2px dotted #FFBBDD;">[[User:Umeko|<span style="color:#FF99CC;">梅子</span>]][[User talk:Umeko|<span style="color:#FF99CC;"><sup>❀</sup></span>]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|<span style="color:#FF99CC;"><sub>✿</sub></span>]]</span> 19:46, 17 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::They ''did'' pronounce it as "tah-jah" on Pokemon Sunday though. If that means anything. [[User:M190049|'''''~m190049''''']]<sup>[[User talk:M190049|'''''~talk''''']]</sup> 23:49, 17 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::Five char limit in Pokemon, even if they changed the limit for JP games... it wouldn't be ツタアージャ (romanized as "Tsutaa'aja", I believe?), and "アー" can be romanized as an "ar" sometimes. Also... I'm pretty sure they also pronounced "Pocket Monsters" as "poketto monsutaa" on Pokesun (from what I can hear anyway, they talk too faaaaaast). So yeah. D: ▫▫'''[[User:Tina|<span style="color:#e072a9;">ティナ</span>]]'''<sup>[[User talk:Tina|<span style="color:#728084;">♫</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Tina|<span style="color:#728084;">★</span>]]</sup> 00:03, 18 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::Actually there isn't a big difference between Tsutaaja and Tsutarja. It's called a [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhotic_and_non-rhotic_accents non-rhotic] r. You may have noticed that people from London or Boston tend to not pronounce the letter r when it's and the end of a word or before a consonant. Well, in Japanese the r sound can only ever come before a vowel, so when the letter r is at the end of a word or before a consonant they tend to approximate the sound with a long a, sometimes written aa. Take my name, Peter, for example. Someone from London or Boston would probably drop the r sound at the end, and likewise the Japanese approximate it as ピーター and pronounce it Piitaa. R's before consonants or at the ends of words are almost always approximated by a long a and not a ル. {{unsigned|Drapion}}<br />
::::Exactly, what Drapion said! I still pronounce it the same!--[[User:Pokelova|<span style="color:#DAA520">''Poké''</span>]][[User talk:Pokelova|<span style="color:#C0C0C0">lova!</span>]] 07:51, 18 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::Actually, that's really interesting. And to think I put a rant about this on pokecharms the other day... But you're right. I just think it's a little on the odd side is all, I guess. --[[User:Raktoner|Raktoner]] 22:35, 18 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::Heh yeah the whole thing is sort of strange. Basically they're using an english-ish pronunciation and putting that into Japanese. Using ā for ar/er is common for this. Hamburger is ハンバーガー (hanbāgā), Earnest is アーネスト (ānesuto), Schumaker is シュメイカー (shumeikā), etc. - [[User:DanPMK|MK]] (<sup>[[User Talk:DanPMK|t]]</sup>/<sub>[[Special:contributions/DanPMK|c]]</sub>) 03:10, 22 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Bird of Paradise Flower ==<br />
<br />
I know that the new pokemon is based on a grass snake, but if you look at it's snout and it's tail, it reminds me of a {{wp|Strelitzia}} a.k.a. the Bird of Paradise Flower. I know that this is a foolish question, but I suggest that you should put that in to what the new pokemon is based of in Origin? - [[User:Cynthia149]] 09:12, 25 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I believe this got a "no" when you suggested it before... <span style="border: 2px dotted #FFBBDD;">[[User:Umeko|<span style="color:#FF99CC;">梅子</span>]][[User talk:Umeko|<span style="color:#FF99CC;"><sup>❀</sup></span>]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|<span style="color:#FF99CC;"><sub>✿</sub></span>]]</span> 18:56, 25 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:: I contacted that question to [[User:TTEchidna]] weeks ago, and he said that the origin will be changed when more info is unleashed. You have a look at the flower when the pod is closed, and then you will see the resembelence to this new Pokemon. - [[User:Cynthia149]] 20:46, 25 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::If that's what he said, then that's what we're going by. We have not gotten any more information on the starters since then. <span style="border: 2px dotted #FFBBDD;">[[User:Umeko|<span style="color:#FF99CC;">梅子</span>]][[User talk:Umeko|<span style="color:#FF99CC;"><sup>❀</sup></span>]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|<span style="color:#FF99CC;"><sub>✿</sub></span>]]</span> 19:51, 25 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::When the information is ''unleashed''? Is it going to turn into a [[wp:Sonic Unleashed|werewolf?]] -[[User:Sketch|Sketch]] 23:58, 27 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Moves==<br />
<br />
According to a video, This pokemon either used Razor Leaf or Leaf Storm, I am not sure which...[[User:Chomi|Chomi]] 09:22, 31 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:It's Leaf Storm, to clarify. ▫▫'''[[User:Tina|<span style="color:#e072a9;">ティナ</span>]]'''<sup>[[User talk:Tina|<span style="color:#728084;">♫</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Tina|<span style="color:#728084;">★</span>]]</sup> 14:38, 31 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:But we don't know what level it learns it at, so there's not really anywhere we can put it in the article.--[[User:Pokelova|<span style="color:#DAA520">''Poké''</span>]][[User talk:Pokelova|<span style="color:#C0C0C0">lova!</span>]] 15:03, 31 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Physiology to be added by admins ==<br />
<br />
I wrote up a physical description of Tsutarja for the Physiology section, since as of now it's pretty sparce. I know there's certain info that can't be added as of now, but I don't see why we can't have basic appearance descriptions. Besides, Pokabu has a much more extensive Physiology section. It's up for use if someone wants to add it.<br />
<br />
"Tsutarja is a reptilian Grass-type Pokémon. Most of its body is green in coloration, while it has a cream-colored underside. A yellow stripe runs down the length of its back and tail, and it also has yellow markings around its large eyes. Yellow, curved structures protrude from its shoulders and bend backwards. These structures resemble leaves or small wings and give Tsutarja the appearance of wearing a collar. In spite of being snake-like in appearance, it has fully-developed limbs. Its slender arms are the same green color as the rest of its body and have three fingers, while its tiny feet match its underside in coloration and have no digits whatsoever. It has large, palmate leaf with three prongs on the end of its tail.<br />
<br />
[[User:Togeknight|~Destruction on Wings~]] 02:21, 25 June 2010 (UTC)Togeknight<br />
<br />
== First Evolution? ==<br />
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In the recent Black/White Anime series leak on [http://bulbanews.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Anime_season_title_revealed Bulbanews], an image was released that includes what looks to be first evolutions for, at the very least, Tsutarja and Mijumaru. I think Pokabu's first evolution is there as well next to the new female character. Either way, is there any way to crop down those images and place them in the articles, or is this a case of "wait for clearer images?" --[[User:Phantomjunkie|Phantomjunkie]] 17:27, 1 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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that thing looks nothing like pokabu...even more so than the whole remoraid octillery thing ([[User:Ataro|Ataro]] 17:30, 1 July 2010 (UTC))<br />
:This is both a case of clearer images. Anything like that would be speculation. It may look the same, but may not be related. We'd need further confirmation. ''[[User:Maverick Nate|<sup style="color:#00008B;">'''Maverick'''</sup>]][[User talk:Maverick Nate|<sub style="color:#00008B;">'''Nate'''</sub>]]'' 17:31, 1 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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Tsutarja's evolution's name is Kenayake (ケナャーケ) [[User:Vkickass|Vkickass]] 21:05, 1 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:Even the biggest scans I can find of them are too small for them to be sharpened and still be readable, but the katakana would be ケナヤーケ, not ケナャーケ, which is Kenayaake, but if it follows Tsutarja, it's probably gonna be Kenayarke. --[[User:Goldenpelt|Goldenpelt]] 23:38, 12 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::I'm pretty sure it says Tsutakake (ツタケーク), but even if that what it says, we have absolutely no idea if that's the final name for it. (I say this because, on the character sheet in question, Tsutarja is called "Ivy" and Mijumaru is called something like "Rakkomaru." Uhh...?) <span style="border: 2px dotted #FFBBDD;">[[User:Umeko|<span style="color:#FF99CC;">梅子</span>]][[User talk:Umeko|<span style="color:#FF99CC;"><sup>❀</sup></span>]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|<span style="color:#FF99CC;"><sub>✿</sub></span>]]</span> 00:04, 13 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::I suggest we leave the matter alone until something official pops up. The character sheet's names are small, and up to interpretation. And even if we manage to find which translation is correct, the name could change at any time. And to that point, the design itself could change since it appeared on beta artwork.--[[User:Element03|Element03]] 00:56, 13 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Yes, but this was beta artwork for the ''animé'', not the games. I'm sure the finalized versions of the Pokémon were set long before that beta artwork was released.--[[User:Phantomjunkie|<span style="color:red">Phantom</span>]][[User talk:Phantomjunkie|<span style="color:black">junkie</span>]] 01:19, 13 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Smugleaf ==<br />
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Since we mentioned the "so i herd u liek mudkipz" internet meme in the trivia section on Mudkip's page, should we mention the "Smugleaf" internet meme in the trivia page for this article? - [[User:Gold Dialga|Gold Dialga]]<br />
:Because "so i herd u like mudkipz" was added to Mudkips trivia it would make sens to put it in there. But do the admins realy want information on something as unofficial as memes? I think it would be best to wait for a response from a member of the Bulbagarden staff. [[User:EpicShadow|EpicShadow]] 2:36, 18 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::How far has this new meme spread? "so i herd u liek mudkipz" was a well established meme by the time we added it. Does this even come close? --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] 19:47, 18 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::I beleve it was created by a youtuber calld IAMTHEOBNXIOUSDOUCHE. It has three vidios making it a small series, all three vidios currantly have together have 8188 veiws. The first vidio was posted two months ago. The only article I've seen about it anywher els (there may be more outside of this) is KOTAKU who apparently claimed it as there own creation. In short it is not very well known but it is growing.[[User:EpicShadow|EpicShadow]] 3:21, 18 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::It's spread to a forum populated almost entirely by Sonic fans, and the users of that forum will probably be referring to it as Smugleaf until the English name is revealed. I think that's pretty far for a Pokémon-related internet meme. - [[User:Gold Dialga|Gold Dialga]]<br />
:::::If thats true would it be right to say that the meme had earnd it the nickname Smugleaf, because that may be a piece of trivia to mention in the future. (assuming that the official name does not actualy become Smugleaf wich it most likely will not) [[User:EpicShadow|EpicShadow]] 3:59, 18 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::Basically, most people know Tsutarja as Smugleaf. Its far easier to say/type, and has become widespread. It started literally the first day the starters were announced. <sub style="color:#00008B;">'''[[User:Blake|Blake]]'''</sub> <sup>[[User talk:Blake#top|Talk]]·[[Special:Contributions/Blake|Edits]]</sup> 23:15, 18 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::::But that still makes it a fan-made nickname, should we mention it in the trivia section or leave it alone?[[User:EpicShadow|EpicShadow]] 7:52, 18 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::::I say we mention it in trivia - [[User:Gold Dialga|Gold Dialga]]<br />
:::::::::So hey, who remembers the fan nicknames that were given to the fourth-gen starters before their English names were revealed?<br />
:::::::::...Yeah, that's right, neither do I. And four years from now, I'll bet no one will remember "Smugleaf" either. So, I say not notable. <span style="border: 2px dotted #FFBBDD;">[[User:Umeko|<span style="color:#FF99CC;">梅子</span>]][[User talk:Umeko|<span style="color:#FF99CC;"><sup>❀</sup></span>]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|<span style="color:#FF99CC;"><sub>✿</sub></span>]]</span> 02:43, 19 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/smugleaf --[[User:Shiny Noctowl|<font color="black"><small>S</small><sup>h</sup><small>i</small><sub>n</sub><small>y</small> <sup>N</sup><small>o</small><sub>c</sub><small>t</small><sup>o</sup><small>w</small><sub>l</sub></font>]] 02:56, 19 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::::Maybe we should wait until this nickname becomes a little more widespread. The point at which it would be considered widespread enough to add to the page could be decided by the Bulbapedia staff. [[User:Steph|Steph]] 03:06, 19 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::::: The nickname isn't the real dispute its the meme based on a youtube vidio that we thougt should be put in. [[User:EpicShadow|EpicShadow]] 10:11, 19 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Can we please just drop it until, as {{u|Steph}} says, things are handled a bit better in the sense we wait? [[User:Ht14|<span style="color:#DAA520"><sup>'''''ht'''''</sup></span>]][[User talk:Ht14|<span style="color:#C0C0C0"><small>''14''</small></span>]] 03:13, 19 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::::::Everywhere I looked when the Gen4 starters were released, they were referred to by their Japanese name. Tsutarja, however, seems to carry the name Smugleaf with it everywhere it goes. It's a very widespread nickname from what I can tell. I've yet to meet any Pokémon fan who doesn't refere to it by this nickname so I see no reason for it to be exluded from the trivia section. Less significant things have made it into articals before and stuck. However, this so-called youtube meme... I've never heard of it.[[User:Me, Hurray!|Me, Hurray!]] 02:08, 16 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
::If it's name does turn out to be Smugleaf, it'll go down. Just wait. [[User:CuboneKing|<font color="Red">Cu</font>]][[User talk:CuboneKing|<font color="Tan">bo</font>]][[Special:Contributions/CuboneKing|<font color="Green color light">ne</font>]][[Cubone (Pokémon)|<font color="Black">King</font>]] 02:53, 16 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::I think it could be added after we get an English name. Also, I think it should be noted that the name was mentioned in my Official Nintendo Magazine Australia and New Zealand as a popular fan name. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 07:17, 17 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Pics or it didn't happen. &mdash;'''<span style="font-family:Verdana"><span style="color:#000">darklord</span>[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|<span style="color:#0047AB">trom</span>]]</span>''' 07:22, 17 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::[http://i523.photobucket.com/albums/w355/SnorlaxMonster/IMG.jpg] It's too big for the archives, so I uploaded it to Photobucket. Pics prove it. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 12:55, 17 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::No idea that magazine even existed. I really only wanted the pics for the proof of the magazine :D Can you write an article on it? Also... [[a:File:NZAU Magazine Scan.jpg|I think I might just be awesome. Or something]] :D &mdash;'''<span style="font-family:Verdana"><span style="color:#000">darklord</span>[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|<span style="color:#0047AB">trom</span>]]</span>''' 07:53, 18 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
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===English name===<br />
I bet it's "Snivy" or something, like all other Pokémon have similar English and Japanese name meanings. And you all are getting worked up over nothing. When stuff becomes notable, they will acknowledge it. After all, remember that hype in May of 2009? They picked up on it. They knew we wanted it. And then they announced it. '''[[User:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#FF0000">''TTE''</span>]][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 05:11, 4 September 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== About its National number ==<br />
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Yes. We know. {{p|Victini}} is #000 in the Isshu dex. This means nothing right now about its National number. Think of it this way: they put Victini at #000 so that you'd not know right off the bat getting it how many other Pokémon there are to find, especially given that it's gonna be an early event, like Manaphy. If you got Mew just after you got your starter in RBY, you'd know there's 151 Pokémon in Kanto. Same with Celebi in GSC, Deoxys in RSE, and so on. This is a failsafe to make Pokémon feel less like "let's see how many they added" and more like "oh, there's so many of these things, I wonder what they all are...". Sure, futile anyway, given that we'll likely have access to the games and have figured out everything by the day after it comes out... but still. An admirable solution to that huge-empty-Pokédex problem we've had since Gen I.<br />
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Tsutarja, until further notice, is staying at #494. We cannot assume anything different than it directly following Arceus, just as Chikorita followed Mew, Treecko followed Celebi, and Turtwig followed Deoxys. '''[[User:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#FF0000">''TTE''</span>]][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 00:55, 25 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I completely agree.--[[User:Pokelova|<span style="color:#DAA520">''Poké''</span>]][[User talk:Pokelova|<span style="color:#C0C0C0">lova!</span>]] 01:07, 25 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Poor Origin Species Choice ==<br />
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The Origin Section on Tsutarja's page lables it as "[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opheodrys_aestivus Opheodrys aestivus], more commonly known as the rough green snake or green grass snake". I honsetly STRONGLY disagree with this noition. Other than the somewhat-similar color scheme, there's not TOO much in common- the face is WAY too different. I think that Tsutarja is MUCH more likely based on a somewhat-popular species [http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/03/Oxybelis_fulgidus_4.jpg known] [http://www.naturfoto-cz.de/photos/sevcik/green-vine-snake--oxybelis-fulgidus.jpg as the] [http://travel.mongabay.com/animals/080923/600/brnxz_711.jpg Vine] [http://www.jmg-galleries.com/blog_images/best_photos_2009/9_TRAVEL_COSTARICA_JMG9804_c.jpeg Snake]. The Vine Snake is a snake species found all throughout the Americas. Specifically notice the very similar ''pointed nose'', that the Rough Green Snake notably lacks. Also note the similar nostril and the very sharp line that passes straight through it's eye. ...Thoughts? [[User:M190049|'''''~m190049''''']]<sup>[[User talk:M190049|'''''~talk''''']]</sup> 04:25, 6 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I think you may be right.--[[User:Pokelova|<span style="color:#DAA520">''Poké''</span>]][[User talk:Pokelova|<span style="color:#C0C0C0">lova!</span>]] 04:29, 6 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== evolutionary lvls ==<br />
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Shouldn't we write evolves at lvl 16 and will evolve a second time at 36. or somthing along thoes lines. Becasue we all know thoes are the evolutionary levles for all starters.--[[User:Megamaxxor|<span style="color:#0047AB">'''''Mega'''''</span>]][[User talk:Megamaxxor|<span style="color:#E5E4E2">'''maxxor'''</span>]]-- 00:07, 8 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Confirmation. We need it before we add anything to the articles.--[[User:Phantomjunkie|<span style="color:red">Phantom</span>]][[User talk:Phantomjunkie|<span style="color:black">Junkie</span>]] 00:09, 8 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Monferno: evolves from Chimchar at 14. Grotle: evolves from Turtwig at 18 and into Torterra at 32. So yeah, it isn't confirmed without confirmation. [[User:Turtwig A|<font color="#CD7F32">Turtwig's</font>]] [[Turtwig (Pokémon)|<font color="#FF7F00">A-B-Cs</font>]] ([[User talk:Turtwig A|<font color="#green">talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|<font color="#yellow">contribs</font>]]) 00:16, 8 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
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NO! Turtwig evolvs at 16 i already checked [[User:Megamaxxor|<span style="color:#0047AB">'''''Mega'''''</span>]][[User talk:Megamaxxor|<span style="color:#E5E4E2">'''maxxor'''</span>]]-- 00:18, 8 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Turtwig is my favorite Pokémon, I should know. Because that isn't proof, see {{p|Turtwig|this article}}. It says Turtwig evolves at 18. I also know because I have a level 17 Turtwig and it never once said it was going to evolve. [[User:Turtwig A|<font color="#CD7F32">Turtwig's</font>]] [[Turtwig (Pokémon)|<font color="#FF7F00">A-B-Cs</font>]] ([[User talk:Turtwig A|<font color="#green">talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|<font color="#yellow">contribs</font>]]) 00:26, 8 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
::{{u|Turtwig A|TA}}'s right. We won't know for sure until its officially revealed. There's nothing wrong with waiting. [[User:Takharii|<span style="color:#FFD733;">'''たか'''</span>]][[User talk:Takharii|<span style="color:#DAA520;">'''はり'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Takharii|<span style="color:#B69E00;">'''い'''</span>]] 00:29, 8 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::Trust me, they could break entirely with tradition here. For all we know, all three of this new [[country]]'s starters could evolve for the first time at level 30 and the second time at level 55. Yes, if the previous countries' patterns actually counted for anything, this would suggest that all three starters would evolve first at level 16 and the second time around level 36, but there's no guarantee that the country of Isshu has to adhere to any odd-numbered-generation patterns that the countries of Kanto and Hoenn might have otherwise implied...--[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 00:53, 8 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Anyway, there is no pattern. Currently the starters evolve from level 14-18, then 30-36. There isn't very much consistency, especially not enough for us to assume anything. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 08:10, 8 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Head shaped like Cyndaquil's ==<br />
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I noticed Tsutarja's head is shaped alot like Cyndaquil's head. Would this be worth mentioning in the physiology section? After all, it is also mentioned that Piplup looks a little like Torchic and Pachirisu resembling Pikachu. Also worth mentioning its resemblance to Treecko and all grass starters so far being reptilian? --[[User:Brats817|Brats817]] 10:10, 9 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Uh... no. First of all, I don't see the resemblance. Secondly, in the two cases you cited, the resemblance is far more than superficial. Piplup and Torchic are both small bird Pokémon with ovoid heads, tiny beaks, etc. When you consider that they're the only bird-based starter Pokémon, that can make for worthwhile trivia. Pachirisu and Pikachu are obviously similar—both are electric-type, small rodent Pokémon which store electricity in their cheeks... but Tsutarja is snake-or-lizard-like, while Cyndaquil is like a shrew; their eyes are noticably different... You need a little more to go on than "their heads are vaguely similar in shape (if you squint)." {{unsigned|AndyPKMN}}<br />
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Well the only reason I mentioned it is only because their heads were similar, and that was the only similarity they have and I thought it would be worth mentioning that one similarity. They don't have to be based on the same animal in order to have a similarity somewhere. (Well of course except for color, that isn't enough of a similarity) Tsutarja's head IS similar shaped to Cyndaquil's head, but only the facial features are different, apart from the nose and mouth being in a similar location on their face. If Piplup's head was differently shaped and had different facial features, it probably wouldn't have been compared to Torchic, and if Pachirisu had no cheek pouches, it probably wouldn't be compared with Pikachu. The only other similarity is that they are birds and rodents, but different species. It's like comparing Taillow to Spearow. But if Cyndaquil and Tsutarja's head shape is not enough to mention as it's their one and only similarity, would it still be enough to mention that all grass type starters so far are reptilian? (Probably best to put it in the starter Pokémon section) Oh and you forgot to sign your comment. --[[User:Brats817|Brats817]] 21:51, 9 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I don't see any resemblance at all. I think those other resemblance points should be removed too, save for Lapras/Shellos, as many people did believe they were related by evolution before Gastrodon was revealed. [[User:Turtwig A|<font color="#CD7F32">Turtwig's</font>]] [[Turtwig (Pokémon)|<font color="#FF7F00">A-B-Cs</font>]] ([[User talk:Turtwig A|<font color="#green">talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|<font color="#yellow">contribs</font>]]) 22:04, 9 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Learnset ==<br />
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We have a beggining of Learnset by levelling-up about Tsutarja (as well as [[Pokabu]], [[Mijumaru]], [[Zorua]], [[Zoroark]], [[Reshiram]], [[Zekrom]], [[Moguryu]] and all the other ones) in German at [http://www.pokewiki.de http://www.pokewiki.de] {{unsigned|Wolfy Harfleur 76700}}<br />
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== Chlorophyll ==<br />
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Is it worth noting that even though it's Pokédex entry states that it's movements sharpen in sunlight, it cannot have the ability [[Chlorophyll_(ability)|Chlorophyll]]? {{unsigned|Pawsrent}}<br />
:I don't know. With that new Dream World feature, which gives Pokémon new abilities, Tsutarja could be able to get Chlorophyll as a second ability. [[User:Turtwig A|<font color="#CD7F32">Turtwig's</font>]] [[Turtwig (Pokémon)|<font color="#FF7F00">A-B-Cs</font>]] ([[User talk:Turtwig A|<font color="#green">talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|<font color="#yellow">contribs</font>]]) 20:50, 22 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Updated origin ==<br />
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Tsutarja is most likely based on ''{{wp|Oxybelis fulgidus}}'', a slender snake with a pointed head that inhabits {{wp|Central America}} and {{wp|South America}}. The Pokémon's combination of snake- and lizard-like features is also similar to that of the {{wp|skink}}, more specifically the {{wp|Neoseps}}. Neoseps heavilly resemble snakes but have small, stubby legs. Its head and general body shape, as well as its protrusions on its shoulders, are most likely based on the {{wp|Strelitzia|birds of paradise flowers}} and possibly the {{wp|Heliconia|false birds of paradise}}.<br />
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[[User:050294|050294]] 00:06, 25 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Pokedex # ==<br />
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Won't Victini come before it on the national pokedex making it #455?</div>Captian Obvioushttps://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Double_Battle&diff=1172501Talk:Double Battle2010-08-31T19:47:46Z<p>Captian Obvious: /* Triple Battles */ new section</p>
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<div>== The huge list ==<br />
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Is it needed? I personally think not. After all, most would just assume after seeing one that others would use similar aspects for theirs. Do we list that "gasp, all of Roxanne's Pokémon are Rock-types"? No. In Gym Leader, it's defined. Why bother making a list when you could just say "most double battles against NPCs feature the NPC trainer using two similar or related Pokémon. <span style="background:#FF9030">'''[[User:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#FF0000">''TTE''</span>]][[User talk:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#000000">chidna</span>]]</span>{{ani|155|Fire echy}}<span style="background:#664444">[[User:TTEchidna/GSDS|<sup><span style="color:#FFD700">G</span></sup><sub><span style="color:#E0E0E0">S</span></sub><span style="color:#000000">DS!</span>]]'''</span> 22:43, 21 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
:Yea, we really don't need it. If we do, we could put it on a different page. Like what Fabu-Vinny did with the Lucario movie's plot summary....--'''[[User:Theryguy512|<span style="color:#FF7F00">Theryguy</span>]][[User talk:Theryguy512|<span style="color:#5C8CFA">5</span>]][[User:Theryguy512/Contribution Page|<span style="color:#5C8CFA">1</span>]][[User:Theryguy512/Similarities|<span style="color:#5C8CFA">2</span>]]''' 22:47, 21 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
::As far as summaries go, yeah, we could put movie synopses on a subpage. But this... no. The short explanation works better. <span style="background:#FF9030">'''[[User:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#FF0000">''TTE''</span>]][[User talk:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#000000">chidna</span>]]</span>{{ani|155|Fire echy}}<span style="background:#664444">[[User:TTEchidna/GSDS|<sup><span style="color:#FFD700">G</span></sup><sub><span style="color:#E0E0E0">S</span></sub><span style="color:#000000">DS!</span>]]'''</span> 23:30, 21 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
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Pokémon pairs often used by whom? ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|<font color="midnightblue" face="comic sans ms">'''$aturn'''</font>]][[User:SaturnYoshi|<font color="green" face="comic sans ms">'''¥oshi'''</font>]] <sup>[[User talk:SaturnYoshi|<font color="maroon">THE VOICES</font>]]</sup> 14:18, 6 June 2008 (UTC)<br />
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== "May be used on user or partner" ==<br />
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I can't use Swords Dance, Baton Pass, or Agility on the partner in generation 4. Is this something specific to generation 3, or was it poorly worded? --[[User:Raijinili|Raijinili]] 03:44, 31 October 2008 (UTC)<br />
:Also, doesn't {{m|Perish Song}} affect every pokémon on the battlefield? That list doesn't make much senne to me...<br />
::The entire User or Partner section of the list seems to make no sense to me whatsoever... --[[User:Phred|Phred]] 05:06, 24 December 2008 (UTC)<br />
:::What, exactly, do you mean? --[[User:Martonimos|Marton]]<sub>[[wp:Chanukah|I'm Jewish]]</sub>[[User talk:Martonimos|imos]] 05:16, 24 December 2008 (UTC)<br />
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::: Oh for crying out loud!, What the section means it does something to both user and partner, Lets say I use Agility, Not only does my speed increase also my pair's speed increases. The next section says, may hit either opponents, which means your moves will hit on of your opponents.<br />
::: Both opponents mean your move will hit both of your opponent.<br />
::: Hits both opponents and partner means it hits you, your partner and you opponents.<br />
::: Affects all Pokémon in battle is the same as above.<br />
::: --[[Charizard (Pokémon)|<font color="FF1111"><small>Force</small></font>]] <sup>[[User:Force Fire|<font color="E24242"><small>''Fire''</small></font>]]</sup> [[User talk:Force Fire|<font color="4F5870"><small>''talk''</small></font>]] 05:16, 24 December 2008 (UTC)<br />
::::...dude, it's "User ''or'' partner," so I assume it can do either, but not both. Also, "hits both opponents and partner" doesn't hit you. --[[User:Martonimos|Marton]]<sub>[[wp:Chanukah|I'm Jewish]]</sub>[[User talk:Martonimos|imos]] 05:19, 24 December 2008 (UTC)<br />
:::::"May be used ON User or Partner" suggests that any move in this list would give me my own Pokémon or its partner as valid target choices. Calm Mind is in said list: [http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/PhredLevi/TV2008122401425800.jpg so where is my partner in the target selection?] --[[User:Phred|Phred]] 05:45, 24 December 2008 (UTC)<br />
::::::Interesting... my guess is that it works differently in PBR for whatever reason (quite a few gen I moves acted slightly differently in Stadium than in the main games). Someone with DP should double-check that. --[[User:Martonimos|Marton]]<sub>[[wp:Chanukah|I'm Jewish]]</sub>[[User talk:Martonimos|imos]] 12:30, 24 December 2008 (UTC)<br />
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== Pokémon pairs often used in double battles ==<br />
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This doesn't belong on this page, because it's not part of the concept of double battles. It's more like thinly veiled strategy. And like {{u|SaturnYoshi}} wrote above, who uses these pairs? The list is rather opinionated and prone to personal preference. I think it belongs on an appendix page.&nbsp;&mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Laoris|Laoris]]&nbsp;<sub>([[User_Talk:Laoris|Blah]])</sub> 06:18, 4 December 2008 (UTC)<br />
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== Targeting Order of Multi-Target Moves and Dark Void ==<br />
I have played double battles a lot recently. One aspect of them(In 4th Gen at least) that can be of importance, is that any attack that targets to multiple pokemon will hit the fastest target first, and the slowest last(Same goes in Trick Room, basically reversing the normal order). One important use of this I know is in regards to Dark Void in Battle Revolution Doubles while Sleep Clause is active. The fastest target will be the first to get hit(Or get lucky with a miss). The slower one will be guaranteed to avoid it if it hits the faster one and puts sleep on them, unless the faster one already has a non-sleep status on them/it misses the fast target. <br />
Dark Void is definitely the only move where knowing the order could be useful(Such as switching in a slow pokemon to make your fast sleep-talker fall asleep instead of a faster sweeper. For Lum berry or Chesto berry-holders, just give it to a faster pokemon, to let your slow sleep-talker be put to sleep). If sleep clause is not active, then both pokemon will only have a normal chance to avoid it. For the other moves, the attack order is not as important to know(Since they just deal damage or confusion, which aren't as bad as sleep in most cases). [[User:JoeTE|Joe T.E.]] 15:59, 22 December 2008 (UTC)<br />
:Well, I did mention the turn-order thing in the article, and the Dark Void page already mentions the Sleep Clause deal, so I think we're good in that regard. --[[User:Phred|Phred]] 18:57, 23 December 2008 (UTC)<br />
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== In-game double battle partners ==<br />
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I'm not talking the stat trainers; they already have what I'm after. A list of other double-battle partners would be nice though, along with the back sprites of Barry and Steven. You know, just because they aren't anywhere else? -_-; [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * [[User talk:ArcToraphim|the Arc Toraph]] 11:50, 16 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Trivia? ==<br />
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Is it worth mentioning that in the main series there isn't a single case of a double battle involving just two trainers? Like it's either the player and a teammate, or a player versus two trainers. Never player versus a single trainer, unless you count the battle tower (I think? that might even be against two trainers). [[User:Derian|&#91;&#91;Derian&#93;&#93;]] 21:18, 30 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Battle Tower Double Battles are against one trainer. If I recall correctly, the Emerald Gym leader rematches are also Double Battles... {{unsigned|Goukazaru}}<br />
::...Crap, I did forget to sign...--[[User:Goukazaru|Gou]] 05:57, 3 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Well then maybe it's notable that there aren't any double battles versus just one trainer before beating the elite 4? [[User:Derian|&#91;&#91;Derian&#93;&#93;]] 12:02, 3 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Triple battle debut ==<br />
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May I argue again that the triple battle section should mention that three on three battles' first major appearance was in [[Pokémon Battrio]], and too much of a fact to be mere trivia? [[User:Mudkipchan|Mudkipchan]] 23:15, 28 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Edited in :) &mdash;'''<span style="font-family:Verdana"><span style="color:#000">darklord</span>[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|<span style="color:#0047AB">trom</span>]]</span>''' 23:19, 28 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Triple Battles ==<br />
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Shouldn't Triple Battles be considered a separate article?[[User:Captian Obvious|Captian Obvious]] 19:47, 31 August 2010 (UTC)</div>Captian Obvious