https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/api.php?action=feedcontributions&feedformat=atom&user=AzaleeBulbapedia - User contributions [en]2026-06-21T19:36:47ZUser contributionsMediaWiki 1.43.8https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Hokulani_Observatory&diff=2648909Talk:Hokulani Observatory2017-06-03T19:24:19Z<p>Azalee: Japanese transliteration spelling</p>
<hr />
<div>Why is the Japanese name transliterated as "Hōkūlani" and not just "Hokulani" when the kana are perfectly normal short sounds? I thought it might be the RL spelling of a Hawaiian location but I'm not finding anything... Am I missing something?</div>Azaleehttps://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Dartrix_(Pok%C3%A9mon)&diff=2513432Talk:Dartrix (Pokémon)2016-10-04T16:37:08Z<p>Azalee: /* Name origin - French */ new section</p>
<hr />
<div>Dartrix is extremely sensitive to other presences in the area and can detect opponents behind it and throw feathers to strike them without even seeing them. This Pokémon conceals sharp-bladed feathers inside its wings, showing astounding precision as it sends them flying in attack. And it goes beyond propelling its blade quills in simple straight lines—it can even bend these feathers to change their trajectories!<br />
<br />
Revealing a certain snobbiness in its personality, Dartrix cares a great deal about its appearance, grooming its feathers in every spare moment. In truth, it’s also a bit of a birdbrain, with a tendency to bungle things up. Once it makes a mistake, it sometimes gets into a desperate struggle to gloss over the situation and ends up making a bigger mess than ever.<br />
<br />
At times, this Pokémon feels so bothered by its dirty or ruffled feathers that it can’t focus on battle. When it loses its focus, it sometimes even retires from the battle on the spot! It’s up to each Trainer to help Dartrix overcome this troublesome stage. If this Pokémon is with a Trainer who helps it through, its strength will grow hugely!<br />
<br />
[[User:Lawrence Calablaster|Lawrence Calablaster]] ([[User talk:Lawrence Calablaster|talk]]) 14:26, 4 October 2016 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks, but we can seen exactly what it says on the site for ourselves. Information like this should be put in the editor's own words and then cited before being added (see other Gen VII Pokemon for reference). In proper writing, we'd have to put all of that in quotations and state in the text where it was from if we were to copy it word for word like that. That goes against the general style of the wiki. [[User:Crystal Talian|<span style="color:#9F00C5">Crystal</span>]] [[User talk:Crystal Talian|<span style="color:#FF00FF">Talian</span>]] 15:02, 4 October 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Russian name ==<br />
<br />
The Russian name is Дартрикс so if someone could add that that would be great c: --[[User:Celadonkey|Celadonkey]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 15:26, 4 October 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Name origin - German ==<br />
<br />
I'd say the name is composed of ''arbor'' (Latin for tree) and the English word ''toss''. At least I can't think of anything else.<br />
<br />
== Name origin - French ==<br />
<br />
In "Efflèche", the "eff" part likely comes from "(chouette) effraie" (barn owl) https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chouette_effraie</div>Azaleehttps://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Lusamine&diff=2500069Lusamine2016-09-07T16:19:33Z<p>Azalee: wrong C/P</p>
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<div>{{CharInfobox<br />
|color={{white color light}}<br />
|corecolor={{morning color light}}<br />
|bordercolor={{white color}}<br />
|name=Lusamine<br />
|jname=ルザミーネ<br />
|tmname=Lusamine<br />
|image=Sun Moon Lusamine.png<br />
|caption=Art from Sun and Moon<br />
|size=150px<br />
|gender=Female<br />
|colors=yes<br />
|eyes=Green<br />
|hair=Blonde<br />
|hometown=Unknown<br />
|region=[[Alola]]<br />
|trainer=no<br />
<!--|trainerclass=Aether President--><br />
|game=yes<br />
|generation={{gen|VII}}<br />
|games={{pkmn|Sun and Moon}}<br />
}}<br />
<br />
'''Lusamine''' (Japanese: '''ルザミーネ''' ''Lusamine'') is the president of the [[Aether Foundation]].<br />
<br />
==In the games==<br />
Lusamine appears in [[Pokémon Sun and Moon]]. As president of the Aether Foundation, Lusamine loves all Pokémon, be they native to the [[Alola]] region or not.<br />
<br />
==Names==<br />
{| class="roundy" style="background:#{{white color}}; border:3px solid #{{morning color light}}"<br />
|-<br />
! Language<br />
! Name<br />
! Origin<br />
|- style="background:#FFF"<br />
| Japanese<br />
| ルザミーネ ''Lusamine''<br />
| From ''Balsamine'' (German for {{wp|Impatiens balsamina|garden balsam}})<br />
|- style="background:#FFF"<br />
| English<br />
| Lusamine<br />
| From her Japanese name<br />
|- style="background:#FFF"<br />
| French<br />
| Elsa-Mina<br />
| Similar to her Japanese name<br />
|- style="background:#FFF"<br />
| German<br />
| Samantha<br />
| From ''Balsamine'' (garden balsam) and ἄνθος ''ánthos'' (Greek for flower)<br />
|- style="background:#FFF"<br />
| Italian, Spanish<br />
| Samina<br />
| From ''balsamina'' (garden balsam)<br />
|- style="background:#FFF"<br />
| Korean<br />
| 루자미네 ''Lusamine''<br />
| Transliteration of Japanese name<br />
|- style="background:#FFF"<br />
| Chinese ({{tt|Mandarin|Taiwan and Mainland China}})<br />
| 露莎米奈 ''Lùshāmǐnài''<br />
| Transliteration of Japanese name<br />
|- style="background:#FFF"<br />
| Chinese ({{tt|Cantonese|Hong Kong}})<br />
| 露莎米奈 ''Louhsāmáihnoih''<br />
| Mandarin-based transliteration of Japanese name<br />
|- style="background:#FFF"<br />
| Russian<br />
| Лузамин ''Luzamin''<br />
| Transcription of English name <br />
|}<br />
<br />
{{-}}<br />
{{NPC|white|alola=yes}}<br />
{{Project CharacterDex notice}}<br />
<br />
[[Category:Sun and Moon characters]]<br />
<br />
[[de:Samantha]]<br />
[[fr:Elsa-Mina]]<br />
[[it:Samina]]<br />
[[zh:露莎米奈]]</div>Azaleehttps://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Alain&diff=2471052Alain2016-07-15T05:35:42Z<p>Azalee: "bodyguard" was a mistranslation, they don't call him anything</p>
<hr />
<div>{{CharInfobox<br />
|color={{black color}}<br />
|corecolor={{black color light}}<br />
|bordercolor={{Dragon color dark}}<br />
|text=FFF<br />
|name=Alain<br />
|jname=アラン<br />
|tmname=Alain<br />
|image=Alain XY.png<br />
|size=100px<br />
|caption=Alain<br />
|gender=Male<br />
|colors=yes<br />
|eyes=Blue<br />
|hair=Black<br />
|hometown=Unknown<br />
|region=[[Kalos]]<br />
|trainer=yes<br />
|trainerclass={{pkmn|Trainer}}<br />
|team=yes |<br />
|teamname=[[Team Flare]] |<br />
|anime=yes<br />
|epnum=SS029<br />
|epname=Mega Evolution Special I<br />
|enva=Jonathan Silver<br />
|java=[[Kenshō Ono]]<br />
}}<br />
<br />
'''Alain''' (Japanese: '''アラン''' ''Alain'') is a major recurring character in the [[Pokémon anime]]. He initially appears as the main character of the ''Mega Evolution Special'' side-series beginning with ''[[SS029|Mega Evolution Special I]]''. He is a [[Pokémon Trainer]] seeking to defeat all [[Mega Evolution|Mega Evolved]] {{OBP|Pokémon|species}} using his Mega {{p|Charizard}} X. He initially worked as [[Professor Sycamore]]'s assistant. However, he now works for [[Lysandre]] under the belief that Lysandre is harnessing the energy of Mega Evolution for peaceful purposes; to this end he works as a part of [[Team Flare]], recognized by its members as being an agent of Lysandre's. He later appears in the ''XY&Z'' arc of the {{series|XY}} as a rival to {{Ash}}, working on Lysandre's orders to continue gathering Mega Evolution energy.<br />
<br />
==History==<br />
===In the ''Mega Evolution Specials''===<br />
[[File:Alain Mega Ring.png|left|thumb|250px|Alain's Mega Ring]]<br />
In the past he was [[Professor Sycamore]]'s assistant, and it was Sycamore who initially inspired him to begin seeking [[Mega Stone]]s in order to solve the mysteries of Mega Evolution. At this time Alain already owned a {{TP|Alain|Charmander}}. Some time after leaving Professor Sycamore's laboratory, Charmander evolved. After reporting to Professor Sycamore, he came to a nearby ruin in search of {{DL|Mega Stone|Ampharosite}}, but discovered that the raw Mega Stone had been taken by [[Lysandre]]. Alain battled Lysandre for ownership of the stone, but his {{p|Charmeleon}} was soundly defeated by [[Lysandre's Pyroar]].<br />
<br />
Alain was then invited to [[Lysandre Labs]], where Lysandre revealed his intention to harness the energy Pokémon produce when they Mega Evolve for peaceful purposes. He also claimed that if Professor Sycamore were to publish the secrets of Mega Evolution, mankind would find a way to use those secrets to nefarious ends, and said he would not allow the Professor's name to be tarnished. Asking if Alain would assist him, Lysandre revealed a metal attaché case with a [[Key Stone|Mega Ring]] and {{DL|Mega Stone|Charizardite X}}. Believing he could protect the Professor this way, Alain accepted Lysandre's proposal.<br />
<br />
During ''[[SS029|Mega Evolution Special I]]'', after Charmeleon evolved into a {{p|Charizard}}, Alain battled a Trainer named [[Astrid]], and defeated her Mega {{p|Absol}}. The battle was secretly watched by [[Mairin]], a beginning Trainer who was sent out on a journey by Professor Sycamore. Mairin was so impressed with his strength that she began following him. From Mairin, Alain learned of [[Ash Ketchum|a Trainer]] who [[XY002|leaped off of Prism Tower to save a Pokémon]]. Next, Alain received a call on his [[Holo Caster]] from a mysterious person (later revealed to be Lysandre), who directed him to a location with ruins to retrieve a Mega Stone. After getting the Mega Stone, Alain was confronted by a Trainer named [[Remo]] who was also looking for the Mega Stone. Remo challenged him with a Mega {{p|Garchomp}}. Alain easily won the battle, and kept the Mega Stone.<br />
<br />
Afterwards he helped Mairin capture a {{p|Flabébé}}. He then traveled with her to a restaurant where [[Elite Four]] member [[Siebold]] was working as a chef and challenged him to a battle, seemingly unaware that at the same time his Charizard's energy levels were being monitored by Lysandre. Charizard put up a good fight against Siebold's {{p|Blastoise}}, but when Blastoise Mega Evolved, it overwhelmed Charizard using a {{a|Mega Launcher}}-boosted {{m|Dragon Pulse}}. Accepting his defeat, Alain continued his journey to battle more Mega Evolved Pokémon and complete more assignments from Lysandre, now with Mairin as a traveling partner.<br />
<br />
[[File:Alain and Mairin.png|thumb|250px|Alain and Mairin]]<br />
In ''[[SS031|Mega Evolution Special II]]'', he traveled to [[Hoenn]] with Mairin, where he met {{Steven}}. Noticing each other's Key Stones, the two Trainers recognized each other as Trainers with Mega Pokémon. Accepting Alain's challenge, Steven and his [[Shiny Pokémon|Shiny]] [[Steven's Metagross|Mega Metagross]] fought a fierce battle with Charizard before the battle was interrupted by Lysandre.<br />
<br />
Deciding to cooperate with the Hoenn {{pkmn|Champion}}, Alain and company traveled to their destination, a small temple with two pillars in the center. When Alain and Steven held their Key Stones to the monument, a staircase of light appeared to lead them further within the ancient ruin. There, they discovered a similar mechanism that summoned a glowing megalith from underneath the ruin. After Lysandre and his research team began analyzing the giant stone, a {{p|Rayquaza}} appeared from the sky, Mega Evolved into Mega Rayquaza, and started wreaking havoc on the surrounding area. Alain, Steven, and their Mega Pokémon partners tried to fend off the [[Legendary Pokémon]], but were overwhelmed. As Rayquaza continued to destroy the megalith, its {{m|Draco Meteor}}s landed near Mairin, sending her and {{DL|Mairin|Chespie}} flying. Alain dove to save her, but in the process, the two are buried in debris. Mairin is safe, but Alain injures his shoulder. Despite Mairin and Lysandre's concern, Alain insists he's fine, and proceeds to [[Rustboro City]] on Lysandre's orders as he believes the megalith can be recovered, secretly he told Alain to keep a watch on Steven Stone, as he possessed great knowledge on Mega Evolution.<br />
<br />
In ''[[SS032|Mega Evolution Special III]]'', after landing at the [[Devon Corporation]] headquarters via helicopter with Mairin, he receives confirmation from Steven and Lysandre that [[Primal Reversion|Primal]] {{p|Groudon}} and Primal {{p|Kyogre}} are set to battle each other near Rustboro City to claim the megalith's energy, putting the entire world at risk. Alain and Steven volunteer to fly to the point where the super-ancient Pokémon will meet to analyze the situation. Concerned, Mairin asks Alain about his shoulder, but Alain insists he's fine. Mairin says it's too dangerous, and begs Alain to stay, but he refuses, saying he has to keep his promise to Lysandre to become the strongest. Mairin continues to press him, causing Alain to lash out at her, saying she knows nothing about his goals. After calming down, Alain walks away from Mairin, telling her to go back to Kalos.<br />
<br />
On Steven's aircraft, Alain and the Champion approach a large energy reading that Devon Corp. staff and Lysandre confirm to be the megalith. Lysandre tells the two to be careful while investigating the situation. Primal Kyogre surfaces, and begins engaging Primal Groudon. After the Primal Pokémon exchange blows, Alain receives private orders from Lysandre. The director wants the megalith protected at all costs until it fully materializes. Alain opens the aircraft's door and sends out Charizard, and triggers its Mega Evolution. Following Alain's lead, Steven and Metagross follow suit, volunteering to attack Kyogre. While Charizard successfully stops Groudon from reaching the megalith, it is hit by {{m|Precipice Blades}}, and falls from the sky to a glacier caused by Kyogre's {{m|Ice Beam}}.<br />
<br />
[[File:Alain anime.png|thumb|left|250px|Alain excited during a battle]]<br />
Alain rappels from the aircraft onto the glacier, and rushes to Charizard's side, digging it out from chunks of ice. Noticing its tail flame dying, Alain immediately recalls Charizard to rest. Alain is then blown back from an explosion caused by Groudon and Kyogre's battle. Steven orders the aircraft to descend, allowing Mairin and Chespie, who had stowed away, to exit the aircraft's rear and help Alain. As Groudon's {{m|Solar Beam}} causes debris to fly towards the three, Steven's Metagross dives in front to guard the three with {{m|Protect}}. As Metagross continues to fend off Groudon and Kyogre, Mairin brings an unconscious Alain to shelter. Alain wakes up after Mega Rayquaza returns and single-handedly defeats Groudon and Kyogre. A submarine sent by Lysandre surfaces and steals the megalith by blinding Rayquaza with flash missiles. Lysandre deems the mission a success, and Rayquaza retreats. With the skies cleared, Alain approaches Mairin and thanks her.<br />
<br />
However, back at the Devon Corporation headquarters, Mairin is told by Steven that Alain returned to Kalos without her. Alain told Steven that Mairin would be in danger if she continued following him. Alain is shown to be back at Lysandre Labs, where Lysandre thanks Alain for his help. While Lysandre tells Alain he's earned a rest, Alain insists on continuing his training with Charizard, recalling how they were defeated by the super-ancient Pokémon of Hoenn. He is last seen with Charizard, battling a nameless Trainer and his Mega {{p|Tyranitar}} under Lysandre's supervision.<br />
<br />
In ''[[SS035|Mega Evolution Special IV]]'', Alain fought ten Trainers with Mega Evolved Pokémon in a row under the condition that he had to return his Mega Stone and Mega Ring to Lysandre had he lost to one of the Trainers. Despite not being able to rest between battles, Alain was able to defeat the first nine Trainers. During the middle of the challenge, he still refused to let Mairin travel with him as she would've been in danger. Unfortunately, this led to Chespie walking in on an experiment which subsequently overloaded, exposing Chespie to near-fatal levels of the energy produced as part of the experiment and causing it to fall into a coma.<br />
<br />
Alain fought [[Malva]] as the final Trainer. Alain has known about her before as she was part of the Elite Four and Malva has heard about Alain's loss to Siebold. Alain was not convinced that he was going to lose to Malva. Alain pitted his Charizard against Malva's Houndoom and true to his word, Alain was able to defeat Malva. After battling Malva, he went to see Mairin from behind a corner. Upon discovering this and hearing a broken, sobbing Mairin begging Lysandre to assure her that Chespie would wake up, he started to feel that it was his fault and, believing that the Mega Evolution system would restore Chespie's health, set out to complete it in order to bring back the cheerful Mairin he knew. After leaving, a Trainer with a Mega {{p|Banette}} stopped him and they had a battle.<br />
<br />
===In the main series===<br />
Alain made a cameo appearance in ''[[M17|Diancie and the Cocoon of Destruction]]''. He made his first appearance in the main series during a flashback in ''[[XY068|Garchomp's Mega Bond!]]''.<br />
<br />
Alain made a cameo in ''[[XY094|From A to Z!]]'', walking past Ash and his friends.<br />
[[File:Ash and Alain.png|thumb|250px|Alain and Ash]]<br />
He reappeared in ''[[XY106|A Meeting of Two Journeys!]]'' where he was passing by Ash's battle with [[Sawyer]]. He took notice of [[Ash's Greninja]]'s unique transformation and was intrigued by it. The next day, he saved [[Ash's Pikachu]] from {{TRT}} and introduced himself to Ash and {{ashfr}}. He then requested to battle Ash's Greninja, to which Ash agreed. Alain held the upper hand against Ash and Greninja with his Charizard, which he eventually Mega Evolved as he wanted to draw out Greninja's full power. Once Greninja did transform, Alain was surprised to discover it wasn't a Mega Evolution, as his Mega Ring didn't respond. Ash-Greninja managed to battle Charizard on more even grounds, but was still defeated. Afterwards Alain and Ash introduced themselves, just before he thanked Ash for the battle and left.<br />
<br />
He appeared again in ''[[XY107|An Explosive Operation!]]'', where he was sent by Lysandre to help [[Aliana]] and [[Mable]] in their mission to capture {{DL|Recurring wild Pokémon in the anime|Z2}} when they were having a hard time. Alain and Charizard were an even match for Zygarde and distracted it long enough for Team Flare to use their specialized weapons. After they captured Z2, Aliana and Mable recognized him as working for Lysandre.<br />
<br />
He appeared again in ''[[XY116|The Synchronicity Test!]]'', where he had a rematch against Ash. First he battled his {{AP|Noivern}}, using his newly revealed {{P|Metang}}. After a close battle, Alain's Metang won. Afterwards Alain agreed for him and Charizard to have a rematch against Ash's {{AP|Greninja}}. At first the battle played out very similar to their previous one, but after Charizard Mega Evolved, Greninja started getting few hits in. When Charizard retaliated, Greninja transformed into Ash-Greninja and proved itself Charizard's equal, and Alain was excited to face such a strong opponent, saying that Ash and Greninja were the type of opponents he had been looking for. Before the battle could be finished, however, Ash collapsed from exhaustion, much to Alain's concern. Alain remained with the group until Ash recovered, after which he once more thanked Ash for a good battle. He was then asked by Ash if he was planning on entering the [[Kalos League]], and when he said that he was not, Ash questioned as to why, since there would be plenty of strong opponents to battle against. To this, Alain commented that it would certainly be interesting, and then departed. Later on, Alain had a brief video chat with a Team Flare Grunt and was glad to see that Mairin was doing fine.<br />
<br />
He reappeared again in [[XY123]] where he defeated [[Korrina]] and earned himself the {{badge|Rumble}}, fulfilling his requirement for entry into the Kalos League. When asked by Korrina if he was going to enter the League, he confirmed, saying that he was planning on entering in order to battle Ash, whom he did not mention by name to her.<br />
<br />
Alain reappeared in [[XY125]], where he entered the [[Lumiose Conference]]. During the opening ceremony, Alain met Sycamore, who together with Diantha hosted the tournament, but Alain refused to talk with his former mentor. He also met Ash, and explained that he entered the tournament to collect Mega Evolution energy. The next day he battled {{an|Trevor}}, with both trainers using their Mega Charizard. Alain, however, easily won, defeating all three of Trevor's Pokémon without being seriously pressured in battle, and advanced to the second round. <br />
<br />
In [[XY126]], it was revealed that Alain had won his second round, third round, and quarterfinal matches, qualifying him for the semi-finals. Following the conclusion of the fourth quarterfinal battle between [[Sawyer]] and {{an|Tierno}}, it was revealed he would once again face Remo for a spot in the finals.<br />
<br />
Alain will appear again in [[XY127]].<br />
<br />
==Character==<br />
Alain is shown to usually be focused on his goals, yet often exhibits aloof behavior and can wander off in thought. He at first seems to push others away from him, but he helped Mairin capture Flabébé with hints on strategy. He does, however, have a close bond with his Charizard, and has become accustomed to Mairin's companionship as shown in ''[[SS031|Mega Evolution Special II]]''. Alain doggedly pursues his goal of becoming the strongest, often ignoring the concern of others.<br />
[[File:Alain anger SS035.png|thumb|right|250px|Alain after learning of Chespie's coma]]<br />
Alain has a tendency to push away the people he wants to protect. During his time working at Professor Sycamore's lab, Alain was much more cheerful than he is in the present. While he has distanced himself from Professor Sycamore, it is clear he is still concerned about him. In ''[[SS032|Mega Evolution Special III]]'', Alain purposely tried to leave Mairin behind to keep her from his dangerous mission of engaging Primal Groudon and Kyogre. Failing that, he later returned to Kalos alone, leaving her behind.<br />
<br />
His character took a darker turn at the end of ''[[SS035|Mega Evolution Special IV]]''. Blaming himself for Chespie's falling into a comatose state because of his pushing Mairin away, he became enraged with himself and began obsessively pursuing the completion of Lysandre's Mega Evolution energy system. His goal thus became to gain strength and complete the system in order to heal Chespie and help Mairin smile again. To meet this end, he worked with Mable and Aliana in their mission to capture Z2, succeeding in distracting Z2 long enough for the Team Flare Scientists to weaken it.<br />
<br />
Alain is a good sport, and is shown to take his losses well. When he wins battles, he likewise congratulates his opponents on putting up a good fight, which is how he befriends Ash. He enjoys a challenge, becoming visibly excited when he and Charizard were pushed into a corner in their second battle with Ash-Greninja.<br />
{{-}}<br />
<br />
==Pokémon==<br />
{{MissingInfo|2|enva|java}}<br />
This listing is of Alain's known {{OBP|Pokémon|species}} in the {{pkmn|anime}}:<br />
===On hand===<br />
{{TrainerPoké<br />
|main=Alain's Charizard<br />
|trainer=Alain<br />
|stage1=Charmander<br />
|stage2=Charmeleon<br />
|pkmn=Charizard ↔ Mega Charizard X<br />
|type1=Fire<br />
|type2=Flying<br />
|img=Alain Charizard.png<br />
|cap=Alain's Charizard<br />
|img2=Alain Mega Charizard X.png<br />
|cap2=Alain's Mega Charizard X<br />
|epnum=SS029<br />
|epname=Mega Evolution Special I<br />
|vajp=Kensuke Satō<br />
|vaen=Kensuke Satō<br />
|desc={{p|Charizard}} is Alain's main Pokémon, which he has owned since it was a {{p|Charmander}}, when Alain was still one of [[Professor Sycamore]]'s assistants. Thanks to Alain's [[Key Stone|Mega Ring]] and its {{DL|Mega Stone|Charizardite X}}, it can [[Mega Evolution|Mega Evolve]] into Mega Charizard X.}}<br />
<br />
{{TrainerPoké<br />
|trainer=Alain<br />
|pkmn=Metang<br />
<!--|pkmn=Metagross<br />
|stage1=Metang--><br />
|type1=Steel<br />
|type2=Psychic<br />
|img=Alain Metang.png<br />
|epnum=XY116<br />
|epname=The Synchronicity Test!<br />
|desc={{p|Metang}} first appeared in ''[[XY116|The Synchronicity Test!]]'', where Alain used it in a battle against Ash. It went up against [[Ash's Noivern]], and following a close battle, emerged victorious.<br />
<br />
Metang's known moves are {{m|Metal Claw}}, {{m|Psyshock}}, and {{m|Meteor Mash}}.}}<br />
<br />
Alain has at least one other Pokémon, as he participated in the first round of the [[Lumiose Conference]] which requires a Single Battle involving three Pokémon.<br />
<br />
===Found===<br />
{{TrainerPoké<br />
|trainer=Professor Sycamore<br />
|pkmn=Gible<br />
|gender=female<br />
|type1=Dragon<br />
|type2=Ground<br />
|img=Alain Gible.png<br />
|cap=Professor Sycamore's Gible with Alain<br />
|epnum=XY068<br />
|epname=Garchomp's Mega Bond!<br />
|desc=In ''[[XY068|Garchomp's Mega Bond!]]'', it was revealed that Alain found [[Professor Sycamore]]'s {{p|Garchomp}} as a {{p|Gible}} injured in the streets of [[Lumiose City]]. Alain brought her to the laboratory to receive treatment.}}<br />
<br />
==Achievements==<br />
<!--[[File:Alain Badges.png|thumb|250px|Alain's Badges]]--><br />
===Badges obtained===<br />
This listing is of the [[Badge]]s Alain has obtained:<br />
* Seven unknown Badges (prior to [[XY123]])<br />
* {{Badge|Rumble}} ([[XY123]])<br />
<br />
==Artwork==<br />
{| style="margin:auto; text-align:center; {{roundy|20px}} border: 2px solid #{{dragon color dark}}; background: #{{black color}}; font-size:80%;"<br />
|- <br />
| style="{{roundy|20px}} border: 2px solid #{{dragon color dark}}; background: #{{black color light}}; width:80px"| [[File:Alain XY 2.png|x250px]]<br />
|- <br />
| {{color|fff|Alternative artwork from the}}<br>{{color2|fff|XY series|''XY'' Series}}<br />
|}<br />
<br />
==Voice actors==<br />
{{vatable|color={{black color light}}|bordercolor={{Dragon color light}}<br />
|de=Karim El Kammouchi<br />
|ja=小野 賢章 ''Kenshō Ono''<br />
|en=Jonathan Silver<br />
|it=Marco Benedetti<br />
|fi=Peter Pihlström<br />
|pl=Paweł Ciołkosz<br />
|es_eu=Álvaro de Juan<br />
|th=ภัคภูมิ ลิ้มมานะสถาพร ''Pakkapoom Limmanasathaporn''<br />
}}<br />
<br />
==Trivia==<br />
* If the player has [[List of American region Nintendo Network event Pokémon distributions in Generation VI#Steven's Beldum|Steven's Shiny Beldum]], [[Steven Stone]] makes a nod to Alain and ''[[SS031|Mega Evolution Special II]]'' during the [[Delta Episode]] in [[Pokémon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire]], mentioning an occasion, a long time ago, when he had the chance to meet and battle {{p|Rayquaza}} alongside a young Trainer who used a black Charizard.<br />
* Alain is the first non-{{pkmn|Champion}} Trainer to defeat an [[Elite Four]] member in the anime, defeating [[Malva]] during a 1-on-1 match.<br />
<br />
==Names==<br />
{| style="float:left; background: #{{black color light}}; {{roundy|10px}}; border: 3px solid #{{dragon color}}"<br />
|- style="text-align:center;"<br />
! Language<br />
! Name<br />
! Origin<br />
|- style="background:#FFF;"<br />
| Japanese<br />
| アラン ''Alain''<br />
| From ''{{wp|Alain (given name)|Alain}}'', French form of ''Alan''. Possibly from 藍 ''ran'' (indigo) or 嵐 ''ran'' (storm).<br />
|- style="background:#FFF;"<br />
| English, French, German<br />
| Alain<br />
| Same as his Japanese name<br />
|- style="background:#FFF;"<br />
| Italian<br />
| Alan<br />
| From his Japanese name<br />
|- style="background:#FFF;"<br />
| Korean<br />
| 알랭 ''Alain''<br />
| From his Japanese name<br />
|- style="background:#FFF;"<br />
| Chinese ({{tt|Mandarin|Taiwan}})<br />
| 艾嵐 ''Àilán''<br />
| Transliteration of his Japanese name<br />
|- style="background:#FFF;"<br />
| Chinese ({{tt|Cantonese|Hong Kong}})<br />
| 艾嵐 ''Aaihlàahm''<br />
| Transliteration of his Japanese name<br />
|- style="background:#FFF;"<br />
| Thai<br />
| อลัน ''Alain''<br />
| Same as his Japanese name<br />
|}<br />
{{-}}<br />
==Related articles==<br />
* {{cat|Episodes focusing on Alain}}<br />
* [[a:Category:Alain|Images on the Bulbagarden Archives]]<br />
<br />
{{Team Flare}}<br />
{{Leaguetrainers}}<br><br />
{{Animecharacters|black}}<br><br />
{{Project Anime notice|mov}}<br />
<br />
[[Category:Laboratory assistants]]<br />
[[Category:Trainers with Key Stones]]<br />
<br />
[[de:Alain]]<br />
[[fr:Alain]]<br />
[[it:Alan (Kalos)]]<br />
[[ja:アラン]]<br />
[[zh:艾嵐]]</div>Azaleehttps://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Alain&diff=2471050Alain2016-07-15T05:32:28Z<p>Azalee: the "bodyguard" was a wrong fan translation, there's actually nothing about that afaik?</p>
<hr />
<div>{{CharInfobox<br />
|color={{black color}}<br />
|corecolor={{black color light}}<br />
|bordercolor={{Dragon color dark}}<br />
|text=FFF<br />
|name=Alain<br />
|jname=アラン<br />
|tmname=Alain<br />
|image=Alain XY.png<br />
|size=100px<br />
|caption=Alain<br />
|gender=Male<br />
|colors=yes<br />
|eyes=Blue<br />
|hair=Black<br />
|hometown=Unknown<br />
|region=[[Kalos]]<br />
|trainer=yes<br />
|trainerclass={{pkmn|Trainer}}<br />
|team=yes |<br />
|teamname=[[Team Flare]] |<br />
|anime=yes<br />
|epnum=SS029<br />
|epname=Mega Evolution Special I<br />
|enva=Jonathan Silver<br />
|java=[[Kenshō Ono]]<br />
}}<br />
<br />
'''Alain''' (Japanese: '''アラン''' ''Alain'') is a major recurring character in the [[Pokémon anime]]. He initially appears as the main character of the ''Mega Evolution Special'' side-series beginning with ''[[SS029|Mega Evolution Special I]]''. He is a [[Pokémon Trainer]] seeking to defeat all [[Mega Evolution|Mega Evolved]] {{OBP|Pokémon|species}} using his Mega {{p|Charizard}} X. He initially worked as [[Professor Sycamore]]'s assistant. However, he now works for [[Lysandre]] under the belief that Lysandre is harnessing the energy of Mega Evolution for peaceful purposes; to this end he works as a part of [[Team Flare]], recognized by its members as being an agent of Lysandre's. He later appears in the ''XY&Z'' arc of the {{series|XY}} as a rival to {{Ash}}, working on Lysandre's orders to continue gathering Mega Evolution energy.<br />
<br />
==History==<br />
===In the ''Mega Evolution Specials''===<br />
[[File:Alain Mega Ring.png|left|thumb|250px|Alain's Mega Ring]]<br />
In the past he was [[Professor Sycamore]]'s assistant, and it was Sycamore who initially inspired him to begin seeking [[Mega Stone]]s in order to solve the mysteries of Mega Evolution. At this time Alain already owned a {{TP|Alain|Charmander}}. Some time after leaving Professor Sycamore's laboratory, Charmander evolved. After reporting to Professor Sycamore, he came to a nearby ruin in search of {{DL|Mega Stone|Ampharosite}}, but discovered that the raw Mega Stone had been taken by [[Lysandre]]. Alain battled Lysandre for ownership of the stone, but his {{p|Charmeleon}} was soundly defeated by [[Lysandre's Pyroar]].<br />
<br />
Alain was then invited to [[Lysandre Labs]], where Lysandre revealed his intention to harness the energy Pokémon produce when they Mega Evolve for peaceful purposes. He also claimed that if Professor Sycamore were to publish the secrets of Mega Evolution, mankind would find a way to use those secrets to nefarious ends, and said he would not allow the Professor's name to be tarnished. Asking if Alain would assist him, Lysandre revealed a metal attaché case with a [[Key Stone|Mega Ring]] and {{DL|Mega Stone|Charizardite X}}. Believing he could protect the Professor this way, Alain accepted Lysandre's proposal.<br />
<br />
During ''[[SS029|Mega Evolution Special I]]'', after Charmeleon evolved into a {{p|Charizard}}, Alain battled a Trainer named [[Astrid]], and defeated her Mega {{p|Absol}}. The battle was secretly watched by [[Mairin]], a beginning Trainer who was sent out on a journey by Professor Sycamore. Mairin was so impressed with his strength that she began following him. From Mairin, Alain learned of [[Ash Ketchum|a Trainer]] who [[XY002|leaped off of Prism Tower to save a Pokémon]]. Next, Alain received a call on his [[Holo Caster]] from a mysterious person (later revealed to be Lysandre), who directed him to a location with ruins to retrieve a Mega Stone. After getting the Mega Stone, Alain was confronted by a Trainer named [[Remo]] who was also looking for the Mega Stone. Remo challenged him with a Mega {{p|Garchomp}}. Alain easily won the battle, and kept the Mega Stone.<br />
<br />
Afterwards he helped Mairin capture a {{p|Flabébé}}. He then traveled with her to a restaurant where [[Elite Four]] member [[Siebold]] was working as a chef and challenged him to a battle, seemingly unaware that at the same time his Charizard's energy levels were being monitored by Lysandre. Charizard put up a good fight against Siebold's {{p|Blastoise}}, but when Blastoise Mega Evolved, it overwhelmed Charizard using a {{a|Mega Launcher}}-boosted {{m|Dragon Pulse}}. Accepting his defeat, Alain continued his journey to battle more Mega Evolved Pokémon and complete more assignments from Lysandre, now with Mairin as a traveling partner.<br />
<br />
[[File:Alain and Mairin.png|thumb|250px|Alain and Mairin]]<br />
In ''[[SS031|Mega Evolution Special II]]'', he traveled to [[Hoenn]] with Mairin, where he met {{Steven}}. Noticing each other's Key Stones, the two Trainers recognized each other as Trainers with Mega Pokémon. Accepting Alain's challenge, Steven and his [[Shiny Pokémon|Shiny]] [[Steven's Metagross|Mega Metagross]] fought a fierce battle with Charizard before the battle was interrupted by Lysandre.<br />
<br />
Deciding to cooperate with the Hoenn {{pkmn|Champion}}, Alain and company traveled to their destination, a small temple with two pillars in the center. When Alain and Steven held their Key Stones to the monument, a staircase of light appeared to lead them further within the ancient ruin. There, they discovered a similar mechanism that summoned a glowing megalith from underneath the ruin. After Lysandre and his research team began analyzing the giant stone, a {{p|Rayquaza}} appeared from the sky, Mega Evolved into Mega Rayquaza, and started wreaking havoc on the surrounding area. Alain, Steven, and their Mega Pokémon partners tried to fend off the [[Legendary Pokémon]], but were overwhelmed. As Rayquaza continued to destroy the megalith, its {{m|Draco Meteor}}s landed near Mairin, sending her and {{DL|Mairin|Chespie}} flying. Alain dove to save her, but in the process, the two are buried in debris. Mairin is safe, but Alain injures his shoulder. Despite Mairin and Lysandre's concern, Alain insists he's fine, and proceeds to [[Rustboro City]] on Lysandre's orders as he believes the megalith can be recovered, secretly he told Alain to keep a watch on Steven Stone, as he possessed great knowledge on Mega Evolution.<br />
<br />
In ''[[SS032|Mega Evolution Special III]]'', after landing at the [[Devon Corporation]] headquarters via helicopter with Mairin, he receives confirmation from Steven and Lysandre that [[Primal Reversion|Primal]] {{p|Groudon}} and Primal {{p|Kyogre}} are set to battle each other near Rustboro City to claim the megalith's energy, putting the entire world at risk. Alain and Steven volunteer to fly to the point where the super-ancient Pokémon will meet to analyze the situation. Concerned, Mairin asks Alain about his shoulder, but Alain insists he's fine. Mairin says it's too dangerous, and begs Alain to stay, but he refuses, saying he has to keep his promise to Lysandre to become the strongest. Mairin continues to press him, causing Alain to lash out at her, saying she knows nothing about his goals. After calming down, Alain walks away from Mairin, telling her to go back to Kalos.<br />
<br />
On Steven's aircraft, Alain and the Champion approach a large energy reading that Devon Corp. staff and Lysandre confirm to be the megalith. Lysandre tells the two to be careful while investigating the situation. Primal Kyogre surfaces, and begins engaging Primal Groudon. After the Primal Pokémon exchange blows, Alain receives private orders from Lysandre. The director wants the megalith protected at all costs until it fully materializes. Alain opens the aircraft's door and sends out Charizard, and triggers its Mega Evolution. Following Alain's lead, Steven and Metagross follow suit, volunteering to attack Kyogre. While Charizard successfully stops Groudon from reaching the megalith, it is hit by {{m|Precipice Blades}}, and falls from the sky to a glacier caused by Kyogre's {{m|Ice Beam}}.<br />
<br />
[[File:Alain anime.png|thumb|left|250px|Alain excited during a battle]]<br />
Alain rappels from the aircraft onto the glacier, and rushes to Charizard's side, digging it out from chunks of ice. Noticing its tail flame dying, Alain immediately recalls Charizard to rest. Alain is then blown back from an explosion caused by Groudon and Kyogre's battle. Steven orders the aircraft to descend, allowing Mairin and Chespie, who had stowed away, to exit the aircraft's rear and help Alain. As Groudon's {{m|Solar Beam}} causes debris to fly towards the three, Steven's Metagross dives in front to guard the three with {{m|Protect}}. As Metagross continues to fend off Groudon and Kyogre, Mairin brings an unconscious Alain to shelter. Alain wakes up after Mega Rayquaza returns and single-handedly defeats Groudon and Kyogre. A submarine sent by Lysandre surfaces and steals the megalith by blinding Rayquaza with flash missiles. Lysandre deems the mission a success, and Rayquaza retreats. With the skies cleared, Alain approaches Mairin and thanks her.<br />
<br />
However, back at the Devon Corporation headquarters, Mairin is told by Steven that Alain returned to Kalos without her. Alain told Steven that Mairin would be in danger if she continued following him. Alain is shown to be back at Lysandre Labs, where Lysandre thanks Alain for his help. While Lysandre tells Alain he's earned a rest, Alain insists on continuing his training with Charizard, recalling how they were defeated by the super-ancient Pokémon of Hoenn. He is last seen with Charizard, battling a nameless Trainer and his Mega {{p|Tyranitar}} under Lysandre's supervision.<br />
<br />
In ''[[SS035|Mega Evolution Special IV]]'', Alain fought ten Trainers with Mega Evolved Pokémon in a row under the condition that he had to return his Mega Stone and Mega Ring to Lysandre had he lost to one of the Trainers. Despite not being able to rest between battles, Alain was able to defeat the first nine Trainers. During the middle of the challenge, he still refused to let Mairin travel with him as she would've been in danger. Unfortunately, this led to Chespie walking in on an experiment which subsequently overloaded, exposing Chespie to near-fatal levels of the energy produced as part of the experiment and causing it to fall into a coma.<br />
<br />
Alain fought [[Malva]] as the final Trainer. Alain has known about her before as she was part of the Elite Four and Malva has heard about Alain's loss to Siebold. Alain was not convinced that he was going to lose to Malva. Alain pitted his Charizard against Malva's Houndoom and true to his word, Alain was able to defeat Malva. After battling Malva, he went to see Mairin from behind a corner. Upon discovering this and hearing a broken, sobbing Mairin begging Lysandre to assure her that Chespie would wake up, he started to feel that it was his fault and, believing that the Mega Evolution system would restore Chespie's health, set out to complete it in order to bring back the cheerful Mairin he knew. After leaving, a Trainer with a Mega {{p|Banette}} stopped him and they had a battle.<br />
<br />
===In the main series===<br />
Alain made a cameo appearance in ''[[M17|Diancie and the Cocoon of Destruction]]''. He made his first appearance in the main series during a flashback in ''[[XY068|Garchomp's Mega Bond!]]''.<br />
<br />
Alain made a cameo in ''[[XY094|From A to Z!]]'', walking past Ash and his friends.<br />
[[File:Ash and Alain.png|thumb|250px|Alain and Ash]]<br />
He reappeared in ''[[XY106|A Meeting of Two Journeys!]]'' where he was passing by Ash's battle with [[Sawyer]]. He took notice of [[Ash's Greninja]]'s unique transformation and was intrigued by it. The next day, he saved [[Ash's Pikachu]] from {{TRT}} and introduced himself to Ash and {{ashfr}}. He then requested to battle Ash's Greninja, to which Ash agreed. Alain held the upper hand against Ash and Greninja with his Charizard, which he eventually Mega Evolved as he wanted to draw out Greninja's full power. Once Greninja did transform, Alain was surprised to discover it wasn't a Mega Evolution, as his Mega Ring didn't respond. Ash-Greninja managed to battle Charizard on more even grounds, but was still defeated. Afterwards Alain and Ash introduced themselves, just before he thanked Ash for the battle and left.<br />
<br />
He appeared again in ''[[XY107|An Explosive Operation!]]'', where he was sent by Lysandre to help [[Aliana]] and [[Mable]] in their mission to capture {{DL|Recurring wild Pokémon in the anime|Z2}} when they were having a hard time. Alain and Charizard were an even match for Zygarde and distracted it long enough for Team Flare to use their specialized weapons. After they captured Z2, Aliana and Mable recognized him as Lysandre's bodyguard.<br />
<br />
He appeared again in ''[[XY116|The Synchronicity Test!]]'', where he had a rematch against Ash. First he battled his {{AP|Noivern}}, using his newly revealed {{P|Metang}}. After a close battle, Alain's Metang won. Afterwards Alain agreed for him and Charizard to have a rematch against Ash's {{AP|Greninja}}. At first the battle played out very similar to their previous one, but after Charizard Mega Evolved, Greninja started getting few hits in. When Charizard retaliated, Greninja transformed into Ash-Greninja and proved itself Charizard's equal, and Alain was excited to face such a strong opponent, saying that Ash and Greninja were the type of opponents he had been looking for. Before the battle could be finished, however, Ash collapsed from exhaustion, much to Alain's concern. Alain remained with the group until Ash recovered, after which he once more thanked Ash for a good battle. He was then asked by Ash if he was planning on entering the [[Kalos League]], and when he said that he was not, Ash questioned as to why, since there would be plenty of strong opponents to battle against. To this, Alain commented that it would certainly be interesting, and then departed. Later on, Alain had a brief video chat with a Team Flare Grunt and was glad to see that Mairin was doing fine.<br />
<br />
He reappeared again in [[XY123]] where he defeated [[Korrina]] and earned himself the {{badge|Rumble}}, fulfilling his requirement for entry into the Kalos League. When asked by Korrina if he was going to enter the League, he confirmed, saying that he was planning on entering in order to battle Ash, whom he did not mention by name to her.<br />
<br />
Alain reappeared in [[XY125]], where he entered the [[Lumiose Conference]]. During the opening ceremony, Alain met Sycamore, who together with Diantha hosted the tournament, but Alain refused to talk with his former mentor. He also met Ash, and explained that he entered the tournament to collect Mega Evolution energy. The next day he battled {{an|Trevor}}, with both trainers using their Mega Charizard. Alain, however, easily won, defeating all three of Trevor's Pokémon without being seriously pressured in battle, and advanced to the second round. <br />
<br />
In [[XY126]], it was revealed that Alain had won his second round, third round, and quarterfinal matches, qualifying him for the semi-finals. Following the conclusion of the fourth quarterfinal battle between [[Sawyer]] and {{an|Tierno}}, it was revealed he would once again face Remo for a spot in the finals.<br />
<br />
Alain will appear again in [[XY127]].<br />
<br />
==Character==<br />
Alain is shown to usually be focused on his goals, yet often exhibits aloof behavior and can wander off in thought. He at first seems to push others away from him, but he helped Mairin capture Flabébé with hints on strategy. He does, however, have a close bond with his Charizard, and has become accustomed to Mairin's companionship as shown in ''[[SS031|Mega Evolution Special II]]''. Alain doggedly pursues his goal of becoming the strongest, often ignoring the concern of others.<br />
[[File:Alain anger SS035.png|thumb|right|250px|Alain after learning of Chespie's coma]]<br />
Alain has a tendency to push away the people he wants to protect. During his time working at Professor Sycamore's lab, Alain was much more cheerful than he is in the present. While he has distanced himself from Professor Sycamore, it is clear he is still concerned about him. In ''[[SS032|Mega Evolution Special III]]'', Alain purposely tried to leave Mairin behind to keep her from his dangerous mission of engaging Primal Groudon and Kyogre. Failing that, he later returned to Kalos alone, leaving her behind.<br />
<br />
His character took a darker turn at the end of ''[[SS035|Mega Evolution Special IV]]''. Blaming himself for Chespie's falling into a comatose state because of his pushing Mairin away, he became enraged with himself and began obsessively pursuing the completion of Lysandre's Mega Evolution energy system. His goal thus became to gain strength and complete the system in order to heal Chespie and help Mairin smile again. To meet this end, he worked with Mable and Aliana in their mission to capture Z2, succeeding in distracting Z2 long enough for the Team Flare Scientists to weaken it.<br />
<br />
Alain is a good sport, and is shown to take his losses well. When he wins battles, he likewise congratulates his opponents on putting up a good fight, which is how he befriends Ash. He enjoys a challenge, becoming visibly excited when he and Charizard were pushed into a corner in their second battle with Ash-Greninja.<br />
{{-}}<br />
<br />
==Pokémon==<br />
{{MissingInfo|2|enva|java}}<br />
This listing is of Alain's known {{OBP|Pokémon|species}} in the {{pkmn|anime}}:<br />
===On hand===<br />
{{TrainerPoké<br />
|main=Alain's Charizard<br />
|trainer=Alain<br />
|stage1=Charmander<br />
|stage2=Charmeleon<br />
|pkmn=Charizard ↔ Mega Charizard X<br />
|type1=Fire<br />
|type2=Flying<br />
|img=Alain Charizard.png<br />
|cap=Alain's Charizard<br />
|img2=Alain Mega Charizard X.png<br />
|cap2=Alain's Mega Charizard X<br />
|epnum=SS029<br />
|epname=Mega Evolution Special I<br />
|vajp=Kensuke Satō<br />
|vaen=Kensuke Satō<br />
|desc={{p|Charizard}} is Alain's main Pokémon, which he has owned since it was a {{p|Charmander}}, when Alain was still one of [[Professor Sycamore]]'s assistants. Thanks to Alain's [[Key Stone|Mega Ring]] and its {{DL|Mega Stone|Charizardite X}}, it can [[Mega Evolution|Mega Evolve]] into Mega Charizard X.}}<br />
<br />
{{TrainerPoké<br />
|trainer=Alain<br />
|pkmn=Metang<br />
<!--|pkmn=Metagross<br />
|stage1=Metang--><br />
|type1=Steel<br />
|type2=Psychic<br />
|img=Alain Metang.png<br />
|epnum=XY116<br />
|epname=The Synchronicity Test!<br />
|desc={{p|Metang}} first appeared in ''[[XY116|The Synchronicity Test!]]'', where Alain used it in a battle against Ash. It went up against [[Ash's Noivern]], and following a close battle, emerged victorious.<br />
<br />
Metang's known moves are {{m|Metal Claw}}, {{m|Psyshock}}, and {{m|Meteor Mash}}.}}<br />
<br />
Alain has at least one other Pokémon, as he participated in the first round of the [[Lumiose Conference]] which requires a Single Battle involving three Pokémon.<br />
<br />
===Found===<br />
{{TrainerPoké<br />
|trainer=Professor Sycamore<br />
|pkmn=Gible<br />
|gender=female<br />
|type1=Dragon<br />
|type2=Ground<br />
|img=Alain Gible.png<br />
|cap=Professor Sycamore's Gible with Alain<br />
|epnum=XY068<br />
|epname=Garchomp's Mega Bond!<br />
|desc=In ''[[XY068|Garchomp's Mega Bond!]]'', it was revealed that Alain found [[Professor Sycamore]]'s {{p|Garchomp}} as a {{p|Gible}} injured in the streets of [[Lumiose City]]. Alain brought her to the laboratory to receive treatment.}}<br />
<br />
==Achievements==<br />
<!--[[File:Alain Badges.png|thumb|250px|Alain's Badges]]--><br />
===Badges obtained===<br />
This listing is of the [[Badge]]s Alain has obtained:<br />
* Seven unknown Badges (prior to [[XY123]])<br />
* {{Badge|Rumble}} ([[XY123]])<br />
<br />
==Artwork==<br />
{| style="margin:auto; text-align:center; {{roundy|20px}} border: 2px solid #{{dragon color dark}}; background: #{{black color}}; font-size:80%;"<br />
|- <br />
| style="{{roundy|20px}} border: 2px solid #{{dragon color dark}}; background: #{{black color light}}; width:80px"| [[File:Alain XY 2.png|x250px]]<br />
|- <br />
| {{color|fff|Alternative artwork from the}}<br>{{color2|fff|XY series|''XY'' Series}}<br />
|}<br />
<br />
==Voice actors==<br />
{{vatable|color={{black color light}}|bordercolor={{Dragon color light}}<br />
|de=Karim El Kammouchi<br />
|ja=小野 賢章 ''Kenshō Ono''<br />
|en=Jonathan Silver<br />
|it=Marco Benedetti<br />
|fi=Peter Pihlström<br />
|pl=Paweł Ciołkosz<br />
|es_eu=Álvaro de Juan<br />
|th=ภัคภูมิ ลิ้มมานะสถาพร ''Pakkapoom Limmanasathaporn''<br />
}}<br />
<br />
==Trivia==<br />
* If the player has [[List of American region Nintendo Network event Pokémon distributions in Generation VI#Steven's Beldum|Steven's Shiny Beldum]], [[Steven Stone]] makes a nod to Alain and ''[[SS031|Mega Evolution Special II]]'' during the [[Delta Episode]] in [[Pokémon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire]], mentioning an occasion, a long time ago, when he had the chance to meet and battle {{p|Rayquaza}} alongside a young Trainer who used a black Charizard.<br />
* Alain is the first non-{{pkmn|Champion}} Trainer to defeat an [[Elite Four]] member in the anime, defeating [[Malva]] during a 1-on-1 match.<br />
<br />
==Names==<br />
{| style="float:left; background: #{{black color light}}; {{roundy|10px}}; border: 3px solid #{{dragon color}}"<br />
|- style="text-align:center;"<br />
! Language<br />
! Name<br />
! Origin<br />
|- style="background:#FFF;"<br />
| Japanese<br />
| アラン ''Alain''<br />
| From ''{{wp|Alain (given name)|Alain}}'', French form of ''Alan''. Possibly from 藍 ''ran'' (indigo) or 嵐 ''ran'' (storm).<br />
|- style="background:#FFF;"<br />
| English, French, German<br />
| Alain<br />
| Same as his Japanese name<br />
|- style="background:#FFF;"<br />
| Italian<br />
| Alan<br />
| From his Japanese name<br />
|- style="background:#FFF;"<br />
| Korean<br />
| 알랭 ''Alain''<br />
| From his Japanese name<br />
|- style="background:#FFF;"<br />
| Chinese ({{tt|Mandarin|Taiwan}})<br />
| 艾嵐 ''Àilán''<br />
| Transliteration of his Japanese name<br />
|- style="background:#FFF;"<br />
| Chinese ({{tt|Cantonese|Hong Kong}})<br />
| 艾嵐 ''Aaihlàahm''<br />
| Transliteration of his Japanese name<br />
|- style="background:#FFF;"<br />
| Thai<br />
| อลัน ''Alain''<br />
| Same as his Japanese name<br />
|}<br />
{{-}}<br />
==Related articles==<br />
* {{cat|Episodes focusing on Alain}}<br />
* [[a:Category:Alain|Images on the Bulbagarden Archives]]<br />
<br />
{{Team Flare}}<br />
{{Leaguetrainers}}<br><br />
{{Animecharacters|black}}<br><br />
{{Project Anime notice|mov}}<br />
<br />
[[Category:Laboratory assistants]]<br />
[[Category:Trainers with Key Stones]]<br />
<br />
[[de:Alain]]<br />
[[fr:Alain]]<br />
[[it:Alan (Kalos)]]<br />
[[ja:アラン]]<br />
[[zh:艾嵐]]</div>Azaleehttps://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Zinnia&diff=2371975Talk:Zinnia2015-12-27T02:20:37Z<p>Azalee: /* Aster's namesake */</p>
<hr />
<div>==Aster's namesake==<br />
<br />
In the climax of the Delta Episode, right before Rayquaza is summoned, Zinnia describes how Aster is named after someone dear to her who passed away. In the Magma/Aqua Hideout she describes Aster (the Whismur) as her "daughter", and the revelation at Sky Pillar makes it slightly unclear whether, when she speaks to Aster at various points in the game, she's addressing the actual Pokémon or Aster's namesake.<br />
<br />
I don't want to add anything too speculative since the scene is extremely ambiguous, but I do think that some of the explicit facts about Aster (namely, that she's named after a deceased character) deserve to be mentioned on the page outside of the quotes themselves. Arguably Aster might even deserve a section on the page, the same way [AZ]'s Floette does. —[[User:AndyPKMN|Andy<sup>P</sup><sub>K</sub><sup>M</sup><sub>N</sub>]] [[User talk:AndyPKMN|(talk)]] 01:41, 13 December 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:i think it should be a trivia thing; considering that Zinnia said that she 'lost her' it's evident that she's speaking of Aster's namesake since Aster is directly next to her. My suggestion is a sister or daughter, but to remove speculation it's simpler to point out in trivia something along the lines of 'Although Aster is almost always beside her, Zinnia sometimes speaks about having lost Aster, suggesting that she may have named the Whismur after someone close to her who died prior to the events of the Game.' So it's based more factually than theoretically. All in all, i do agree that it is something noteworthy [[User:Azure42|Azure/ChromeVoid42]] ([[User talk:Azure42|talk]]) 20:08, 12 January 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I agree on making a separate page or at least a subsection for the original Aster and all info on her, especially since she has also been mentioned in the Adventures manga (complete with a vague picture). The current blurb about her definitely needs editing: from Zinnia's dialogue, it's impossible that the original Aster was her daughter ("''Ever since I was a little girl, I have always turned my eyes up to the sky.''" + "''... I used to watch the stars like this all the time... Together with Aster. We were always together.''" means they've been watching the stars together since they were little and Aster must have been the same age or older than Zinnia).<br />
::[[User:Azalee|Azalee]] ([[User talk:Azalee|talk]]) 20:10, 26 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
:::Those quotes are very far apart and not explicitly (or necessarily reasonably) connected like you want to think they are. At the very least: when Zinnia says they were "always" together, that could easily be "always, since Aster was born", not "always, for '''my''' whole life". [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 21:01, 26 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
::::If we're going to argue semantics, you wouldn't say "We were always together" when you're doing something with your baby daughter — the baby doesn't have a lot of choice on the matter. Zinnia does playfully refer to the current Aster as her daughter, but never to the deceased one (for that matter, it's never even stated whether the deceased Aster was a human, though Adventures went that way); that's a far bigger logic jump to make. I went ahead and edited Pokémon!Aster's blurb to make that clearer, since I noticed after commenting that the last talks on this page were almost a year old... [[User:Azalee|Azalee]] ([[User talk:Azalee|talk]]) 21:18, 26 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
:::::I don't see that it's important that the baby ''have'' any any choice in the matter for someone to reasonably word it "We were always together". If I had a child and I raised her and cared for her every day and then&mdash;let's say she got sick and died. I wouldn't have any problem at all saying "We were always together" about that.<br />
:::::You also say she refers to the current (Whismur) Aster as her daughter, but that's plainly ridiculous: a Pokemon can't be her daughter. Either it's 1) affectionate, or 2) there's more going on, and a bunch of other clues point very strongly to "2": Zinnia had a daughter who Aster the Whismur occasionally acts as a stand-in for. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 21:32, 26 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
::::::I'm asking what your other clues ''are''. There is nothing in Zinnia or anyone's dialogue that says the deceased Aster was her daughter; it's too big of an assumption. We know next to nothing about Zinnia and even less about Aster. She could have been another Pokémon, she could have been a friend or another family member, or, as in Adventures canon, the previous Lorekeeper. As discussed above, I think the best way to follow the community guidelines and be neutral and keep to fact is to say the only things known for sure: 1) she addresses the Pokémon as her daughter, 2) the Pokémon seems to be named after a close one whom she has a lost. I thought my edit was neutral enough, do you have any problems with it? Anyway anything longer doesn't belong in the Pokémon's blurb — perhaps the many theories and possibilities about who Aster may have been can go in the trivia section, under the Adventures mention. Let's not get into an edit war over this.<br />
::::::(And for why Zinnia would call a Pokémon her daughter, a lot of NPCs refer to Pokémon as their 'babies', such as the Fans class, and it's not uncommon for people to call themselves their pet's mother in real life either.)[[User:Azalee|Azalee]] ([[User talk:Azalee|talk]]) 21:41, 26 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
:::::::It's easy to call a pet (or Pokemon) something like your "baby" or maybe even your "little girl" or something, but the same thing does ''not'' happen with "son" or "daughter". Those are totally different.<br />
:::::::Evidence, then...<br />
:::::::*That Aster is human and not a Pokemon: ''"... See that, Aster? You always wanted to watch them, right? The Litleonids."'' Sure, supposedly you can understand Pokemon and all, but that's definitely more a sentiment a person would have expressed directly to Zinnia.<br />
:::::::*That the person is her daughter: A) again, "daughter", from Zinnia, clearly suggests Whismur is a stand-in for her daughter; and B) "Mum"/"Mama" from Whismur. Alone either of those might leave room for just Zinnia being weird or something; but ''together'' it's entirely reasonable to assume they have real meaning.<br />
:::::::These all paint a reasonable, clear picture. Why would it reasonably ''not'' be her daughter? (By in-game canon, that is; the manga and games are ''not'' strictly related.)<br />
:::::::Sure, if you want to be pedantic, it's definitely not a certainty. But we've shown the basic evidence for the claim made; people are entirely free to make up their own minds. In the meantime, we shouldn't be obliged to skirt a plain conclusion. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 22:16, 26 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
::::::::Ah, I'd forgotten about the Litleonids quote, I concede that, but not the second point (since, again, she's talking to the Pokémon and not about the original Aster). Like you said: it's not a certainty, and clearly it's not a plain conclusion since a lot of people came to a different conclusion — including the Adventures scenarist — and even the people above who thought it might be a daughter think it's too ambiguous to state anything. If there's room for people to spontaneously understand something else from the situation, then it's not hard, certain fact, and I think the article's phrasing should reflect that, like in all other ambiguous hints in canon (for instance, the possibility of games!Silver being games!Giovanni child, until HGSS confirmed it). "Please only submit information you know to be accurate, and adhere to a neutral point of view. Do not misrepresent rumors, misconceptions or opinions as fact."<br />
::::::::What about something like "Zinnia addresses Aster like a mother would her daughter, blabla, Aster seems to be named after someone whom Zinnia loved dearly "lost".", and perhaps in the Trivia section, "The identity of Aster's namesake and the circumstances of her death are unclear. She was someone dear to Zinnia, such as a daughter or a friend. In the Adventures manga, Aster's namesake was the previous Lorekeeper."?[[User:Azalee|Azalee]] ([[User talk:Azalee|talk]]) 23:49, 26 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::The people above are irrelevant to the point you're trying to make. They didn't know about (or talk about) Mum/Mama; I only added that this November. Heck, I already acknowledged it's iffy with only the "daughter" mention.<br />
:::::::::You also have '''no''' proof that the Adventures "scenarist" made up Zinnia's backstory based on their best guess as to what the game was trying to suggest.<br />
:::::::::You say you don't concede the second point because she's talking to Whismur and not the "original" Aster, but...that seems to me a ridiculous thing to say. (No offense.) As in, I don't understand how you are/can be understanding that in such a way&mdash;in any way but the way I'm understanding it; and I hardly even know how to try to explain my view to you or what mistake you're making/how. ..All I can say is: ''again'', it's plainly ridiculous to call a Pokemon your daughter. The (IMO only) reasonable explanation is that Zinnia named Whismur after her daughter; and ''that's'' why she calls it her "daughter". (And, once more, yes, all by itself that's not ''wholly'' convincing; but it's ''not'' all by itself: the game also makes Whismur say "Mum"/"Mama", which should really drive the point home.) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 00:09, 27 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::: And in my opinion and many others', it's not the only reasonable interpretation at all, hence the reason we're having this conversation at all! You're surprised that I saw it another way, but I was very surprised that some people thought the first Aster was her daughter. In the Japanese version, one of the ways she says she loved Aster is "''daisuki datta''", which is NOT how one would talk about a daughter. To me, the ridiculous thing (no offense) is to state that and act like that is the only valid interpretation of the game's ambiguousness, when very, very little is stated on the topic. There are many people and many views on this, and it's hard to completely confirm or invalidate any of them. I'm really not comfortable with letting the character's article stating anything like an objective truth when none of the points you mention seem like proof to me, aside from the fact that Aster was most likely a human. It is only your opinion, and not a neutral statement of the few facts we do have for sure. [[User:Azalee|Azalee]] ([[User talk:Azalee|talk]]) 00:29, 27 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::::I don't consider myself qualified to say how likely a mother might be to use 'daisuki' to say she loved her daughter...but right after that she also says 'kokoro kara aishiteita', which I suppose is more "acceptable". In that context, then, I think 'daisuki' would have to get a pass; you generally try not to be too repetitive in writing (I'm fairly sure this is true enough of Japanese or English), so it shouldn't be unreasonable to use 'daisuki' first.<br />
:::::::::::You're railing against this "objective truth". From that tone, I would have to imagine this page said ''"Aster is named after Zinnia's dead daughter"''. It most certainly does ''not'', though. The page says, ''"Aster seems to have been named after a [dead] daughter of Zinnia's"''. There is a world of difference there. It is not a problem for the page to say that, not when the evidence it is based off of is stated next.<br />
:::::::::::And, again: with all the evidence currently being discussed, you are the only person who is currently saying that you don't accept that Aster was named after Zinnia's daughter. Of course, by the same token, I am also the only person saying it was her daughter. But my point is: your claims that "many others" believe exactly as you do are not currently supported. Please stop trying to claim authority in numbers. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 00:57, 27 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
::::::::::::They didn't ''have'' to repeat it; it seems really, really odd to me for a mother talking about her child. I'm not saying the article should say Aster couldn't possibly be Aster's daughter — it can if you reach the way you do — but I disagree that ''"Aster seems to have been named after a [dead] daughter of Zinnia's"'', and I have given you my reasons as for why. I'm just trying to reach a compromise because I don't agree with your view anymore than you do with mine and while the current phrasing on the article could indeed be even worse, it is not neutral enough in my opinion and does not accurately reflect the ambiguity of the situation. You yourself admit that your claims are not any more supported by numbers than mine, so can't we find a phrasing that satisfies both of us and is — again — factual only?[[User:Azalee|Azalee]] ([[User talk:Azalee|talk]]) 01:21, 27 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::::::I'd actually be okay with "Aster ''may have'' been named after [...]" (without the emphasis). But I'm not really okay with offering other alternatives when the only evidence ("daughter", "Mum"/"Mama") points to a daughter. People can doubt that evidence, but presenting some other alternative (like "friend") in the face of that evidence is just terribly awkward (at ''best''). [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 01:26, 27 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::::::Upon further thought, it might be possible to avoid awkwardness like: ''"Aster seems to have been named after someone close to Zinnia who has since died. This person may have been a daughter, as suggested by [...]"''. Does that sound better to you? [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 01:37, 27 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
::::::::::::::That's what I was aiming for, yes x'D Something like that sounds a lot more neutral to me. I guess indeed there isn't particular evidence pointing to, specifically, a friend (could really be anyone — I just wanted to put emphasis on the fact that there are other possibilities than a daughter). (I still don't agree on that that's "the only evidence" but I'll let it go :p) "Someone close to" is the way I'd phrase it too, yes! If you don't agree with my first edit, do you want to be the one to edit a new description, and I'll check afterwards if the phrasing sounds good to me as well? (I'm going offline for now anyway, sorry!)<br />
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== B/W reference ==<br />
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In Granite Cave, she mentions truths and ideals- is this a reference to Reshiram & Zekrom? It seems so, but publishing speculation is not acceptable. Would it be appropriate to link the B/W articles there, or am I making references in my head? <br />
[[User:Partone|Partone]] ([[User talk:Partone|talk]]) 08:54, 22 December 2014 (UTC)Partone<br />
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This certainly is a direct reference to B/W, actually. [[User:-AuraGuardian-|-AuraGuardian-]] ([[User talk:-AuraGuardian-|talk]]) 06:34, 2 January 2015 (UTC)<br />
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== Zinnia's Grandmother ==<br />
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Can we get a page on this ASAP? She does play a pretty heavy part in the Delta episode, by giving vital information, and she's related to the last Lorekeeper, Zinnia, while also happening to be both a Move Tutor and the only and last tutor to re-teach Rayquaza Dragon Ascent, which is pretty important, as it's needed for Ray to ME. Additionally, she is one of the remaining Draconids, so she needs a page. (Was looking for certain quotes said in-game for the DE that only come from this character, so when I couldn't find it, I was disappointed.) [[User:-AuraGuardian-|-AuraGuardian-]] ([[User talk:-AuraGuardian-|talk]]) 06:32, 2 January 2015 (UTC)<br />
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== Parallel Hoenn ==<br />
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I find it strange that something Zinnia mentioned as profound as "A Hoenn region that's almost exactly like this one we live in" is never really explored in the article. The only time it is mentioned is in the direct quote from her. It's a very strange thing for her to bring up, and has some far-reaching implications. As is linked in the article, it may indeed be a reference to the original Ruby and Sapphire versions, and in this case it is the first time (as far as I know) that a character seems aware of the remake versions being distinct in some way from the originals. It would also imply that OR/AS aren't meant to be simply remakes of R/S, but also that they take place in a parallel but equally valid universe. This raises questions of not only when the games take place relative to each others' timelines, but in what universe? What is different about the Kalos region in the old universe, if the great war never happened, and the ultimate weapon never constructed? Does this not deserve further investigation? Though, I'm afraid all we can do right now is speculate. [[User:MofoMan2000|MofoMan2000]] ([[User talk:MofoMan2000|talk]]) 05:40, 18 March 2015 (UTC)<br />
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I guess there are some blurbs about it in other articles, but usually only a short sentence. I'm more concerned with this article as it is now. [[User:MofoMan2000|MofoMan2000]] ([[User talk:MofoMan2000|talk]]) 06:01, 18 March 2015 (UTC)<br />
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== Zinnia's...not grandmother ==<br />
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In the English script, Zinnia calls the old Draconid woman in [[Meteor Falls]] "Grannie", but in the Japanese script, she calls her ババさま, which is much more likely to be a respectful address for an old woman than a way of calling one's own grandmother. It's harder to argue, but in English, "Grannie" really doesn't ''have'' to refer to one's own grandmother either. I think we should remove the claims that that old woman is Zinnia's grandmother.<br />
<br />
This seems like it could easily attract argument, so I wanted to check here first if anyone else has any thoughts on the matter? [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 08:11, 5 November 2015 (UTC)<br />
:If there's not enough info to confirm a closer relation between them, I agree that simply mentioning her as "[the] old Draconid woman" is enough. [[User:SatoMew2|SatoMew2]] ([[User talk:SatoMew2|talk]]) 14:08, 5 November 2015 (UTC)</div>Azaleehttps://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Zinnia&diff=2371966Talk:Zinnia2015-12-27T01:22:40Z<p>Azalee: forgot to sign again;; also btw unless you also looked it up yourself in the JPN version i'm pretty sure the source you're quoting your information from is me so this is really weird x'D</p>
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<div>==Aster's namesake==<br />
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In the climax of the Delta Episode, right before Rayquaza is summoned, Zinnia describes how Aster is named after someone dear to her who passed away. In the Magma/Aqua Hideout she describes Aster (the Whismur) as her "daughter", and the revelation at Sky Pillar makes it slightly unclear whether, when she speaks to Aster at various points in the game, she's addressing the actual Pokémon or Aster's namesake.<br />
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I don't want to add anything too speculative since the scene is extremely ambiguous, but I do think that some of the explicit facts about Aster (namely, that she's named after a deceased character) deserve to be mentioned on the page outside of the quotes themselves. Arguably Aster might even deserve a section on the page, the same way [AZ]'s Floette does. —[[User:AndyPKMN|Andy<sup>P</sup><sub>K</sub><sup>M</sup><sub>N</sub>]] [[User talk:AndyPKMN|(talk)]] 01:41, 13 December 2014 (UTC)<br />
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:i think it should be a trivia thing; considering that Zinnia said that she 'lost her' it's evident that she's speaking of Aster's namesake since Aster is directly next to her. My suggestion is a sister or daughter, but to remove speculation it's simpler to point out in trivia something along the lines of 'Although Aster is almost always beside her, Zinnia sometimes speaks about having lost Aster, suggesting that she may have named the Whismur after someone close to her who died prior to the events of the Game.' So it's based more factually than theoretically. All in all, i do agree that it is something noteworthy [[User:Azure42|Azure/ChromeVoid42]] ([[User talk:Azure42|talk]]) 20:08, 12 January 2015 (UTC)<br />
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::I agree on making a separate page or at least a subsection for the original Aster and all info on her, especially since she has also been mentioned in the Adventures manga (complete with a vague picture). The current blurb about her definitely needs editing: from Zinnia's dialogue, it's impossible that the original Aster was her daughter ("''Ever since I was a little girl, I have always turned my eyes up to the sky.''" + "''... I used to watch the stars like this all the time... Together with Aster. We were always together.''" means they've been watching the stars together since they were little and Aster must have been the same age or older than Zinnia).<br />
::[[User:Azalee|Azalee]] ([[User talk:Azalee|talk]]) 20:10, 26 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
:::Those quotes are very far apart and not explicitly (or necessarily reasonably) connected like you want to think they are. At the very least: when Zinnia says they were "always" together, that could easily be "always, since Aster was born", not "always, for '''my''' whole life". [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 21:01, 26 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
::::If we're going to argue semantics, you wouldn't say "We were always together" when you're doing something with your baby daughter — the baby doesn't have a lot of choice on the matter. Zinnia does playfully refer to the current Aster as her daughter, but never to the deceased one (for that matter, it's never even stated whether the deceased Aster was a human, though Adventures went that way); that's a far bigger logic jump to make. I went ahead and edited Pokémon!Aster's blurb to make that clearer, since I noticed after commenting that the last talks on this page were almost a year old... [[User:Azalee|Azalee]] ([[User talk:Azalee|talk]]) 21:18, 26 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
:::::I don't see that it's important that the baby ''have'' any any choice in the matter for someone to reasonably word it "We were always together". If I had a child and I raised her and cared for her every day and then&mdash;let's say she got sick and died. I wouldn't have any problem at all saying "We were always together" about that.<br />
:::::You also say she refers to the current (Whismur) Aster as her daughter, but that's plainly ridiculous: a Pokemon can't be her daughter. Either it's 1) affectionate, or 2) there's more going on, and a bunch of other clues point very strongly to "2": Zinnia had a daughter who Aster the Whismur occasionally acts as a stand-in for. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 21:32, 26 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
::::::I'm asking what your other clues ''are''. There is nothing in Zinnia or anyone's dialogue that says the deceased Aster was her daughter; it's too big of an assumption. We know next to nothing about Zinnia and even less about Aster. She could have been another Pokémon, she could have been a friend or another family member, or, as in Adventures canon, the previous Lorekeeper. As discussed above, I think the best way to follow the community guidelines and be neutral and keep to fact is to say the only things known for sure: 1) she addresses the Pokémon as her daughter, 2) the Pokémon seems to be named after a close one whom she has a lost. I thought my edit was neutral enough, do you have any problems with it? Anyway anything longer doesn't belong in the Pokémon's blurb — perhaps the many theories and possibilities about who Aster may have been can go in the trivia section, under the Adventures mention. Let's not get into an edit war over this.<br />
::::::(And for why Zinnia would call a Pokémon her daughter, a lot of NPCs refer to Pokémon as their 'babies', such as the Fans class, and it's not uncommon for people to call themselves their pet's mother in real life either.)[[User:Azalee|Azalee]] ([[User talk:Azalee|talk]]) 21:41, 26 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
:::::::It's easy to call a pet (or Pokemon) something like your "baby" or maybe even your "little girl" or something, but the same thing does ''not'' happen with "son" or "daughter". Those are totally different.<br />
:::::::Evidence, then...<br />
:::::::*That Aster is human and not a Pokemon: ''"... See that, Aster? You always wanted to watch them, right? The Litleonids."'' Sure, supposedly you can understand Pokemon and all, but that's definitely more a sentiment a person would have expressed directly to Zinnia.<br />
:::::::*That the person is her daughter: A) again, "daughter", from Zinnia, clearly suggests Whismur is a stand-in for her daughter; and B) "Mum"/"Mama" from Whismur. Alone either of those might leave room for just Zinnia being weird or something; but ''together'' it's entirely reasonable to assume they have real meaning.<br />
:::::::These all paint a reasonable, clear picture. Why would it reasonably ''not'' be her daughter? (By in-game canon, that is; the manga and games are ''not'' strictly related.)<br />
:::::::Sure, if you want to be pedantic, it's definitely not a certainty. But we've shown the basic evidence for the claim made; people are entirely free to make up their own minds. In the meantime, we shouldn't be obliged to skirt a plain conclusion. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 22:16, 26 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
::::::::Ah, I'd forgotten about the Litleonids quote, I concede that, but not the second point (since, again, she's talking to the Pokémon and not about the original Aster). Like you said: it's not a certainty, and clearly it's not a plain conclusion since a lot of people came to a different conclusion — including the Adventures scenarist — and even the people above who thought it might be a daughter think it's too ambiguous to state anything. If there's room for people to spontaneously understand something else from the situation, then it's not hard, certain fact, and I think the article's phrasing should reflect that, like in all other ambiguous hints in canon (for instance, the possibility of games!Silver being games!Giovanni child, until HGSS confirmed it). "Please only submit information you know to be accurate, and adhere to a neutral point of view. Do not misrepresent rumors, misconceptions or opinions as fact."<br />
::::::::What about something like "Zinnia addresses Aster like a mother would her daughter, blabla, Aster seems to be named after someone whom Zinnia loved dearly "lost".", and perhaps in the Trivia section, "The identity of Aster's namesake and the circumstances of her death are unclear. She was someone dear to Zinnia, such as a daughter or a friend. In the Adventures manga, Aster's namesake was the previous Lorekeeper."?[[User:Azalee|Azalee]] ([[User talk:Azalee|talk]]) 23:49, 26 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::The people above are irrelevant to the point you're trying to make. They didn't know about (or talk about) Mum/Mama; I only added that this November. Heck, I already acknowledged it's iffy with only the "daughter" mention.<br />
:::::::::You also have '''no''' proof that the Adventures "scenarist" made up Zinnia's backstory based on their best guess as to what the game was trying to suggest.<br />
:::::::::You say you don't concede the second point because she's talking to Whismur and not the "original" Aster, but...that seems to me a ridiculous thing to say. (No offense.) As in, I don't understand how you are/can be understanding that in such a way&mdash;in any way but the way I'm understanding it; and I hardly even know how to try to explain my view to you or what mistake you're making/how. ..All I can say is: ''again'', it's plainly ridiculous to call a Pokemon your daughter. The (IMO only) reasonable explanation is that Zinnia named Whismur after her daughter; and ''that's'' why she calls it her "daughter". (And, once more, yes, all by itself that's not ''wholly'' convincing; but it's ''not'' all by itself: the game also makes Whismur say "Mum"/"Mama", which should really drive the point home.) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 00:09, 27 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::: And in my opinion and many others', it's not the only reasonable interpretation at all, hence the reason we're having this conversation at all! You're surprised that I saw it another way, but I was very surprised that some people thought the first Aster was her daughter. In the Japanese version, one of the ways she says she loved Aster is "''daisuki datta''", which is NOT how one would talk about a daughter. To me, the ridiculous thing (no offense) is to state that and act like that is the only valid interpretation of the game's ambiguousness, when very, very little is stated on the topic. There are many people and many views on this, and it's hard to completely confirm or invalidate any of them. I'm really not comfortable with letting the character's article stating anything like an objective truth when none of the points you mention seem like proof to me, aside from the fact that Aster was most likely a human. It is only your opinion, and not a neutral statement of the few facts we do have for sure. [[User:Azalee|Azalee]] ([[User talk:Azalee|talk]]) 00:29, 27 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::::I don't consider myself qualified to say how likely a mother might be to use 'daisuki' to say she loved her daughter...but right after that she also says 'kokoro kara aishiteita', which I suppose is more "acceptable". In that context, then, I think 'daisuki' would have to get a pass; you generally try not to be too repetitive in writing (I'm fairly sure this is true enough of Japanese or English), so it shouldn't be unreasonable to use 'daisuki' first.<br />
:::::::::::You're railing against this "objective truth". From that tone, I would have to imagine this page said ''"Aster is named after Zinnia's dead daughter"''. It most certainly does ''not'', though. The page says, ''"Aster seems to have been named after a [dead] daughter of Zinnia's"''. There is a world of difference there. It is not a problem for the page to say that, not when the evidence it is based off of is stated next.<br />
:::::::::::And, again: with all the evidence currently being discussed, you are the only person who is currently saying that you don't accept that Aster was named after Zinnia's daughter. Of course, by the same token, I am also the only person saying it was her daughter. But my point is: your claims that "many others" believe exactly as you do are not currently supported. Please stop trying to claim authority in numbers. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 00:57, 27 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
::::::::::::They didn't ''have'' to repeat it; it seems really, really odd to me for a mother talking about her child. I'm not saying the article should say Aster couldn't possibly be Aster's daughter — it can if you reach the way you do — but I disagree that ''"Aster seems to have been named after a [dead] daughter of Zinnia's"'', and I have given you my reasons as for why. I'm just trying to reach a compromise because I don't agree with your view anymore than you do with mine and while the current phrasing on the article could indeed be even worse, it is not neutral enough in my opinion and does not accurately reflect the ambiguity of the situation. You yourself admit that your claims are not any more supported by numbers than mine, so can't we find a phrasing that satisfies both of us and is — again — factual only?[[User:Azalee|Azalee]] ([[User talk:Azalee|talk]]) 01:21, 27 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
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== B/W reference ==<br />
<br />
In Granite Cave, she mentions truths and ideals- is this a reference to Reshiram & Zekrom? It seems so, but publishing speculation is not acceptable. Would it be appropriate to link the B/W articles there, or am I making references in my head? <br />
[[User:Partone|Partone]] ([[User talk:Partone|talk]]) 08:54, 22 December 2014 (UTC)Partone<br />
<br />
<br />
This certainly is a direct reference to B/W, actually. [[User:-AuraGuardian-|-AuraGuardian-]] ([[User talk:-AuraGuardian-|talk]]) 06:34, 2 January 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Zinnia's Grandmother ==<br />
<br />
Can we get a page on this ASAP? She does play a pretty heavy part in the Delta episode, by giving vital information, and she's related to the last Lorekeeper, Zinnia, while also happening to be both a Move Tutor and the only and last tutor to re-teach Rayquaza Dragon Ascent, which is pretty important, as it's needed for Ray to ME. Additionally, she is one of the remaining Draconids, so she needs a page. (Was looking for certain quotes said in-game for the DE that only come from this character, so when I couldn't find it, I was disappointed.) [[User:-AuraGuardian-|-AuraGuardian-]] ([[User talk:-AuraGuardian-|talk]]) 06:32, 2 January 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Parallel Hoenn ==<br />
<br />
I find it strange that something Zinnia mentioned as profound as "A Hoenn region that's almost exactly like this one we live in" is never really explored in the article. The only time it is mentioned is in the direct quote from her. It's a very strange thing for her to bring up, and has some far-reaching implications. As is linked in the article, it may indeed be a reference to the original Ruby and Sapphire versions, and in this case it is the first time (as far as I know) that a character seems aware of the remake versions being distinct in some way from the originals. It would also imply that OR/AS aren't meant to be simply remakes of R/S, but also that they take place in a parallel but equally valid universe. This raises questions of not only when the games take place relative to each others' timelines, but in what universe? What is different about the Kalos region in the old universe, if the great war never happened, and the ultimate weapon never constructed? Does this not deserve further investigation? Though, I'm afraid all we can do right now is speculate. [[User:MofoMan2000|MofoMan2000]] ([[User talk:MofoMan2000|talk]]) 05:40, 18 March 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I guess there are some blurbs about it in other articles, but usually only a short sentence. I'm more concerned with this article as it is now. [[User:MofoMan2000|MofoMan2000]] ([[User talk:MofoMan2000|talk]]) 06:01, 18 March 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Zinnia's...not grandmother ==<br />
<br />
In the English script, Zinnia calls the old Draconid woman in [[Meteor Falls]] "Grannie", but in the Japanese script, she calls her ババさま, which is much more likely to be a respectful address for an old woman than a way of calling one's own grandmother. It's harder to argue, but in English, "Grannie" really doesn't ''have'' to refer to one's own grandmother either. I think we should remove the claims that that old woman is Zinnia's grandmother.<br />
<br />
This seems like it could easily attract argument, so I wanted to check here first if anyone else has any thoughts on the matter? [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 08:11, 5 November 2015 (UTC)<br />
:If there's not enough info to confirm a closer relation between them, I agree that simply mentioning her as "[the] old Draconid woman" is enough. [[User:SatoMew2|SatoMew2]] ([[User talk:SatoMew2|talk]]) 14:08, 5 November 2015 (UTC)</div>Azaleehttps://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Zinnia&diff=2371965Talk:Zinnia2015-12-27T01:20:56Z<p>Azalee: /* Aster's namesake */</p>
<hr />
<div>==Aster's namesake==<br />
<br />
In the climax of the Delta Episode, right before Rayquaza is summoned, Zinnia describes how Aster is named after someone dear to her who passed away. In the Magma/Aqua Hideout she describes Aster (the Whismur) as her "daughter", and the revelation at Sky Pillar makes it slightly unclear whether, when she speaks to Aster at various points in the game, she's addressing the actual Pokémon or Aster's namesake.<br />
<br />
I don't want to add anything too speculative since the scene is extremely ambiguous, but I do think that some of the explicit facts about Aster (namely, that she's named after a deceased character) deserve to be mentioned on the page outside of the quotes themselves. Arguably Aster might even deserve a section on the page, the same way [AZ]'s Floette does. —[[User:AndyPKMN|Andy<sup>P</sup><sub>K</sub><sup>M</sup><sub>N</sub>]] [[User talk:AndyPKMN|(talk)]] 01:41, 13 December 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:i think it should be a trivia thing; considering that Zinnia said that she 'lost her' it's evident that she's speaking of Aster's namesake since Aster is directly next to her. My suggestion is a sister or daughter, but to remove speculation it's simpler to point out in trivia something along the lines of 'Although Aster is almost always beside her, Zinnia sometimes speaks about having lost Aster, suggesting that she may have named the Whismur after someone close to her who died prior to the events of the Game.' So it's based more factually than theoretically. All in all, i do agree that it is something noteworthy [[User:Azure42|Azure/ChromeVoid42]] ([[User talk:Azure42|talk]]) 20:08, 12 January 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I agree on making a separate page or at least a subsection for the original Aster and all info on her, especially since she has also been mentioned in the Adventures manga (complete with a vague picture). The current blurb about her definitely needs editing: from Zinnia's dialogue, it's impossible that the original Aster was her daughter ("''Ever since I was a little girl, I have always turned my eyes up to the sky.''" + "''... I used to watch the stars like this all the time... Together with Aster. We were always together.''" means they've been watching the stars together since they were little and Aster must have been the same age or older than Zinnia).<br />
::[[User:Azalee|Azalee]] ([[User talk:Azalee|talk]]) 20:10, 26 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
:::Those quotes are very far apart and not explicitly (or necessarily reasonably) connected like you want to think they are. At the very least: when Zinnia says they were "always" together, that could easily be "always, since Aster was born", not "always, for '''my''' whole life". [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 21:01, 26 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
::::If we're going to argue semantics, you wouldn't say "We were always together" when you're doing something with your baby daughter — the baby doesn't have a lot of choice on the matter. Zinnia does playfully refer to the current Aster as her daughter, but never to the deceased one (for that matter, it's never even stated whether the deceased Aster was a human, though Adventures went that way); that's a far bigger logic jump to make. I went ahead and edited Pokémon!Aster's blurb to make that clearer, since I noticed after commenting that the last talks on this page were almost a year old... [[User:Azalee|Azalee]] ([[User talk:Azalee|talk]]) 21:18, 26 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
:::::I don't see that it's important that the baby ''have'' any any choice in the matter for someone to reasonably word it "We were always together". If I had a child and I raised her and cared for her every day and then&mdash;let's say she got sick and died. I wouldn't have any problem at all saying "We were always together" about that.<br />
:::::You also say she refers to the current (Whismur) Aster as her daughter, but that's plainly ridiculous: a Pokemon can't be her daughter. Either it's 1) affectionate, or 2) there's more going on, and a bunch of other clues point very strongly to "2": Zinnia had a daughter who Aster the Whismur occasionally acts as a stand-in for. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 21:32, 26 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
::::::I'm asking what your other clues ''are''. There is nothing in Zinnia or anyone's dialogue that says the deceased Aster was her daughter; it's too big of an assumption. We know next to nothing about Zinnia and even less about Aster. She could have been another Pokémon, she could have been a friend or another family member, or, as in Adventures canon, the previous Lorekeeper. As discussed above, I think the best way to follow the community guidelines and be neutral and keep to fact is to say the only things known for sure: 1) she addresses the Pokémon as her daughter, 2) the Pokémon seems to be named after a close one whom she has a lost. I thought my edit was neutral enough, do you have any problems with it? Anyway anything longer doesn't belong in the Pokémon's blurb — perhaps the many theories and possibilities about who Aster may have been can go in the trivia section, under the Adventures mention. Let's not get into an edit war over this.<br />
::::::(And for why Zinnia would call a Pokémon her daughter, a lot of NPCs refer to Pokémon as their 'babies', such as the Fans class, and it's not uncommon for people to call themselves their pet's mother in real life either.)[[User:Azalee|Azalee]] ([[User talk:Azalee|talk]]) 21:41, 26 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
:::::::It's easy to call a pet (or Pokemon) something like your "baby" or maybe even your "little girl" or something, but the same thing does ''not'' happen with "son" or "daughter". Those are totally different.<br />
:::::::Evidence, then...<br />
:::::::*That Aster is human and not a Pokemon: ''"... See that, Aster? You always wanted to watch them, right? The Litleonids."'' Sure, supposedly you can understand Pokemon and all, but that's definitely more a sentiment a person would have expressed directly to Zinnia.<br />
:::::::*That the person is her daughter: A) again, "daughter", from Zinnia, clearly suggests Whismur is a stand-in for her daughter; and B) "Mum"/"Mama" from Whismur. Alone either of those might leave room for just Zinnia being weird or something; but ''together'' it's entirely reasonable to assume they have real meaning.<br />
:::::::These all paint a reasonable, clear picture. Why would it reasonably ''not'' be her daughter? (By in-game canon, that is; the manga and games are ''not'' strictly related.)<br />
:::::::Sure, if you want to be pedantic, it's definitely not a certainty. But we've shown the basic evidence for the claim made; people are entirely free to make up their own minds. In the meantime, we shouldn't be obliged to skirt a plain conclusion. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 22:16, 26 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
::::::::Ah, I'd forgotten about the Litleonids quote, I concede that, but not the second point (since, again, she's talking to the Pokémon and not about the original Aster). Like you said: it's not a certainty, and clearly it's not a plain conclusion since a lot of people came to a different conclusion — including the Adventures scenarist — and even the people above who thought it might be a daughter think it's too ambiguous to state anything. If there's room for people to spontaneously understand something else from the situation, then it's not hard, certain fact, and I think the article's phrasing should reflect that, like in all other ambiguous hints in canon (for instance, the possibility of games!Silver being games!Giovanni child, until HGSS confirmed it). "Please only submit information you know to be accurate, and adhere to a neutral point of view. Do not misrepresent rumors, misconceptions or opinions as fact."<br />
::::::::What about something like "Zinnia addresses Aster like a mother would her daughter, blabla, Aster seems to be named after someone whom Zinnia loved dearly "lost".", and perhaps in the Trivia section, "The identity of Aster's namesake and the circumstances of her death are unclear. She was someone dear to Zinnia, such as a daughter or a friend. In the Adventures manga, Aster's namesake was the previous Lorekeeper."?[[User:Azalee|Azalee]] ([[User talk:Azalee|talk]]) 23:49, 26 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::The people above are irrelevant to the point you're trying to make. They didn't know about (or talk about) Mum/Mama; I only added that this November. Heck, I already acknowledged it's iffy with only the "daughter" mention.<br />
:::::::::You also have '''no''' proof that the Adventures "scenarist" made up Zinnia's backstory based on their best guess as to what the game was trying to suggest.<br />
:::::::::You say you don't concede the second point because she's talking to Whismur and not the "original" Aster, but...that seems to me a ridiculous thing to say. (No offense.) As in, I don't understand how you are/can be understanding that in such a way&mdash;in any way but the way I'm understanding it; and I hardly even know how to try to explain my view to you or what mistake you're making/how. ..All I can say is: ''again'', it's plainly ridiculous to call a Pokemon your daughter. The (IMO only) reasonable explanation is that Zinnia named Whismur after her daughter; and ''that's'' why she calls it her "daughter". (And, once more, yes, all by itself that's not ''wholly'' convincing; but it's ''not'' all by itself: the game also makes Whismur say "Mum"/"Mama", which should really drive the point home.) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 00:09, 27 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::: And in my opinion and many others', it's not the only reasonable interpretation at all, hence the reason we're having this conversation at all! You're surprised that I saw it another way, but I was very surprised that some people thought the first Aster was her daughter. In the Japanese version, one of the ways she says she loved Aster is "''daisuki datta''", which is NOT how one would talk about a daughter. To me, the ridiculous thing (no offense) is to state that and act like that is the only valid interpretation of the game's ambiguousness, when very, very little is stated on the topic. There are many people and many views on this, and it's hard to completely confirm or invalidate any of them. I'm really not comfortable with letting the character's article stating anything like an objective truth when none of the points you mention seem like proof to me, aside from the fact that Aster was most likely a human. It is only your opinion, and not a neutral statement of the few facts we do have for sure. [[User:Azalee|Azalee]] ([[User talk:Azalee|talk]]) 00:29, 27 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::::I don't consider myself qualified to say how likely a mother might be to use 'daisuki' to say she loved her daughter...but right after that she also says 'kokoro kara aishiteita', which I suppose is more "acceptable". In that context, then, I think 'daisuki' would have to get a pass; you generally try not to be too repetitive in writing (I'm fairly sure this is true enough of Japanese or English), so it shouldn't be unreasonable to use 'daisuki' first.<br />
:::::::::::You're railing against this "objective truth". From that tone, I would have to imagine this page said ''"Aster is named after Zinnia's dead daughter"''. It most certainly does ''not'', though. The page says, ''"Aster seems to have been named after a [dead] daughter of Zinnia's"''. There is a world of difference there. It is not a problem for the page to say that, not when the evidence it is based off of is stated next.<br />
:::::::::::And, again: with all the evidence currently being discussed, you are the only person who is currently saying that you don't accept that Aster was named after Zinnia's daughter. Of course, by the same token, I am also the only person saying it was her daughter. But my point is: your claims that "many others" believe exactly as you do are not currently supported. Please stop trying to claim authority in numbers. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 00:57, 27 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
::::::::::::They didn't ''have'' to repeat it; it seems really, really odd to me for a mother talking about her child. I'm not saying the article should say Aster couldn't possibly be Aster's daughter — it can if you reach the way you do — but I disagree that ''"Aster seems to have been named after a [dead] daughter of Zinnia's"'', and I have given you my reasons as for why. I'm just trying to reach a compromise because I don't agree with your view anymore than you do with mine and while the current phrasing on the article could indeed be even worse, it is not neutral enough in my opinion and does not accurately reflect the ambiguity of the situation. You yourself admit that your claims are not any more supported by numbers than mine, so can't we find a phrasing that satisfies both of us and is — again — factual only?<br />
<br />
== B/W reference ==<br />
<br />
In Granite Cave, she mentions truths and ideals- is this a reference to Reshiram & Zekrom? It seems so, but publishing speculation is not acceptable. Would it be appropriate to link the B/W articles there, or am I making references in my head? <br />
[[User:Partone|Partone]] ([[User talk:Partone|talk]]) 08:54, 22 December 2014 (UTC)Partone<br />
<br />
<br />
This certainly is a direct reference to B/W, actually. [[User:-AuraGuardian-|-AuraGuardian-]] ([[User talk:-AuraGuardian-|talk]]) 06:34, 2 January 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Zinnia's Grandmother ==<br />
<br />
Can we get a page on this ASAP? She does play a pretty heavy part in the Delta episode, by giving vital information, and she's related to the last Lorekeeper, Zinnia, while also happening to be both a Move Tutor and the only and last tutor to re-teach Rayquaza Dragon Ascent, which is pretty important, as it's needed for Ray to ME. Additionally, she is one of the remaining Draconids, so she needs a page. (Was looking for certain quotes said in-game for the DE that only come from this character, so when I couldn't find it, I was disappointed.) [[User:-AuraGuardian-|-AuraGuardian-]] ([[User talk:-AuraGuardian-|talk]]) 06:32, 2 January 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Parallel Hoenn ==<br />
<br />
I find it strange that something Zinnia mentioned as profound as "A Hoenn region that's almost exactly like this one we live in" is never really explored in the article. The only time it is mentioned is in the direct quote from her. It's a very strange thing for her to bring up, and has some far-reaching implications. As is linked in the article, it may indeed be a reference to the original Ruby and Sapphire versions, and in this case it is the first time (as far as I know) that a character seems aware of the remake versions being distinct in some way from the originals. It would also imply that OR/AS aren't meant to be simply remakes of R/S, but also that they take place in a parallel but equally valid universe. This raises questions of not only when the games take place relative to each others' timelines, but in what universe? What is different about the Kalos region in the old universe, if the great war never happened, and the ultimate weapon never constructed? Does this not deserve further investigation? Though, I'm afraid all we can do right now is speculate. [[User:MofoMan2000|MofoMan2000]] ([[User talk:MofoMan2000|talk]]) 05:40, 18 March 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I guess there are some blurbs about it in other articles, but usually only a short sentence. I'm more concerned with this article as it is now. [[User:MofoMan2000|MofoMan2000]] ([[User talk:MofoMan2000|talk]]) 06:01, 18 March 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Zinnia's...not grandmother ==<br />
<br />
In the English script, Zinnia calls the old Draconid woman in [[Meteor Falls]] "Grannie", but in the Japanese script, she calls her ババさま, which is much more likely to be a respectful address for an old woman than a way of calling one's own grandmother. It's harder to argue, but in English, "Grannie" really doesn't ''have'' to refer to one's own grandmother either. I think we should remove the claims that that old woman is Zinnia's grandmother.<br />
<br />
This seems like it could easily attract argument, so I wanted to check here first if anyone else has any thoughts on the matter? [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 08:11, 5 November 2015 (UTC)<br />
:If there's not enough info to confirm a closer relation between them, I agree that simply mentioning her as "[the] old Draconid woman" is enough. [[User:SatoMew2|SatoMew2]] ([[User talk:SatoMew2|talk]]) 14:08, 5 November 2015 (UTC)</div>Azaleehttps://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Zinnia&diff=2371961Talk:Zinnia2015-12-27T00:29:52Z<p>Azalee: /* Aster's namesake */</p>
<hr />
<div>==Aster's namesake==<br />
<br />
In the climax of the Delta Episode, right before Rayquaza is summoned, Zinnia describes how Aster is named after someone dear to her who passed away. In the Magma/Aqua Hideout she describes Aster (the Whismur) as her "daughter", and the revelation at Sky Pillar makes it slightly unclear whether, when she speaks to Aster at various points in the game, she's addressing the actual Pokémon or Aster's namesake.<br />
<br />
I don't want to add anything too speculative since the scene is extremely ambiguous, but I do think that some of the explicit facts about Aster (namely, that she's named after a deceased character) deserve to be mentioned on the page outside of the quotes themselves. Arguably Aster might even deserve a section on the page, the same way [AZ]'s Floette does. —[[User:AndyPKMN|Andy<sup>P</sup><sub>K</sub><sup>M</sup><sub>N</sub>]] [[User talk:AndyPKMN|(talk)]] 01:41, 13 December 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:i think it should be a trivia thing; considering that Zinnia said that she 'lost her' it's evident that she's speaking of Aster's namesake since Aster is directly next to her. My suggestion is a sister or daughter, but to remove speculation it's simpler to point out in trivia something along the lines of 'Although Aster is almost always beside her, Zinnia sometimes speaks about having lost Aster, suggesting that she may have named the Whismur after someone close to her who died prior to the events of the Game.' So it's based more factually than theoretically. All in all, i do agree that it is something noteworthy [[User:Azure42|Azure/ChromeVoid42]] ([[User talk:Azure42|talk]]) 20:08, 12 January 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I agree on making a separate page or at least a subsection for the original Aster and all info on her, especially since she has also been mentioned in the Adventures manga (complete with a vague picture). The current blurb about her definitely needs editing: from Zinnia's dialogue, it's impossible that the original Aster was her daughter ("''Ever since I was a little girl, I have always turned my eyes up to the sky.''" + "''... I used to watch the stars like this all the time... Together with Aster. We were always together.''" means they've been watching the stars together since they were little and Aster must have been the same age or older than Zinnia).<br />
::[[User:Azalee|Azalee]] ([[User talk:Azalee|talk]]) 20:10, 26 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
:::Those quotes are very far apart and not explicitly (or necessarily reasonably) connected like you want to think they are. At the very least: when Zinnia says they were "always" together, that could easily be "always, since Aster was born", not "always, for '''my''' whole life". [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 21:01, 26 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
::::If we're going to argue semantics, you wouldn't say "We were always together" when you're doing something with your baby daughter — the baby doesn't have a lot of choice on the matter. Zinnia does playfully refer to the current Aster as her daughter, but never to the deceased one (for that matter, it's never even stated whether the deceased Aster was a human, though Adventures went that way); that's a far bigger logic jump to make. I went ahead and edited Pokémon!Aster's blurb to make that clearer, since I noticed after commenting that the last talks on this page were almost a year old... [[User:Azalee|Azalee]] ([[User talk:Azalee|talk]]) 21:18, 26 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
:::::I don't see that it's important that the baby ''have'' any any choice in the matter for someone to reasonably word it "We were always together". If I had a child and I raised her and cared for her every day and then&mdash;let's say she got sick and died. I wouldn't have any problem at all saying "We were always together" about that.<br />
:::::You also say she refers to the current (Whismur) Aster as her daughter, but that's plainly ridiculous: a Pokemon can't be her daughter. Either it's 1) affectionate, or 2) there's more going on, and a bunch of other clues point very strongly to "2": Zinnia had a daughter who Aster the Whismur occasionally acts as a stand-in for. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 21:32, 26 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
::::::I'm asking what your other clues ''are''. There is nothing in Zinnia or anyone's dialogue that says the deceased Aster was her daughter; it's too big of an assumption. We know next to nothing about Zinnia and even less about Aster. She could have been another Pokémon, she could have been a friend or another family member, or, as in Adventures canon, the previous Lorekeeper. As discussed above, I think the best way to follow the community guidelines and be neutral and keep to fact is to say the only things known for sure: 1) she addresses the Pokémon as her daughter, 2) the Pokémon seems to be named after a close one whom she has a lost. I thought my edit was neutral enough, do you have any problems with it? Anyway anything longer doesn't belong in the Pokémon's blurb — perhaps the many theories and possibilities about who Aster may have been can go in the trivia section, under the Adventures mention. Let's not get into an edit war over this.<br />
::::::(And for why Zinnia would call a Pokémon her daughter, a lot of NPCs refer to Pokémon as their 'babies', such as the Fans class, and it's not uncommon for people to call themselves their pet's mother in real life either.)[[User:Azalee|Azalee]] ([[User talk:Azalee|talk]]) 21:41, 26 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
:::::::It's easy to call a pet (or Pokemon) something like your "baby" or maybe even your "little girl" or something, but the same thing does ''not'' happen with "son" or "daughter". Those are totally different.<br />
:::::::Evidence, then...<br />
:::::::*That Aster is human and not a Pokemon: ''"... See that, Aster? You always wanted to watch them, right? The Litleonids."'' Sure, supposedly you can understand Pokemon and all, but that's definitely more a sentiment a person would have expressed directly to Zinnia.<br />
:::::::*That the person is her daughter: A) again, "daughter", from Zinnia, clearly suggests Whismur is a stand-in for her daughter; and B) "Mum"/"Mama" from Whismur. Alone either of those might leave room for just Zinnia being weird or something; but ''together'' it's entirely reasonable to assume they have real meaning.<br />
:::::::These all paint a reasonable, clear picture. Why would it reasonably ''not'' be her daughter? (By in-game canon, that is; the manga and games are ''not'' strictly related.)<br />
:::::::Sure, if you want to be pedantic, it's definitely not a certainty. But we've shown the basic evidence for the claim made; people are entirely free to make up their own minds. In the meantime, we shouldn't be obliged to skirt a plain conclusion. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 22:16, 26 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
::::::::Ah, I'd forgotten about the Litleonids quote, I concede that, but not the second point (since, again, she's talking to the Pokémon and not about the original Aster). Like you said: it's not a certainty, and clearly it's not a plain conclusion since a lot of people came to a different conclusion — including the Adventures scenarist — and even the people above who thought it might be a daughter think it's too ambiguous to state anything. If there's room for people to spontaneously understand something else from the situation, then it's not hard, certain fact, and I think the article's phrasing should reflect that, like in all other ambiguous hints in canon (for instance, the possibility of games!Silver being games!Giovanni child, until HGSS confirmed it). "Please only submit information you know to be accurate, and adhere to a neutral point of view. Do not misrepresent rumors, misconceptions or opinions as fact."<br />
::::::::What about something like "Zinnia addresses Aster like a mother would her daughter, blabla, Aster seems to be named after someone whom Zinnia loved dearly "lost".", and perhaps in the Trivia section, "The identity of Aster's namesake and the circumstances of her death are unclear. She was someone dear to Zinnia, such as a daughter or a friend. In the Adventures manga, Aster's namesake was the previous Lorekeeper."?[[User:Azalee|Azalee]] ([[User talk:Azalee|talk]]) 23:49, 26 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::The people above are irrelevant to the point you're trying to make. They didn't know about (or talk about) Mum/Mama; I only added that this November. Heck, I already acknowledged it's iffy with only the "daughter" mention.<br />
:::::::::You also have '''no''' proof that the Adventures "scenarist" made up Zinnia's backstory based on their best guess as to what the game was trying to suggest.<br />
:::::::::You say you don't concede the second point because she's talking to Whismur and not the "original" Aster, but...that seems to me a ridiculous thing to say. (No offense.) As in, I don't understand how you are/can be understanding that in such a way&mdash;in any way but the way I'm understanding it; and I hardly even know how to try to explain my view to you or what mistake you're making/how. ..All I can say is: ''again'', it's plainly ridiculous to call a Pokemon your daughter. The (IMO only) reasonable explanation is that Zinnia named Whismur after her daughter; and ''that's'' why she calls it her "daughter". (And, once more, yes, all by itself that's not ''wholly'' convincing; but it's ''not'' all by itself: the game also makes Whismur say "Mum"/"Mama", which should really drive the point home.) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 00:09, 27 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::: And in my opinion and many others', it's not the only reasonable interpretation at all, hence the reason we're having this conversation at all! You're surprised that I saw it another way, but I was very surprised that some people thought the first Aster was her daughter. In the Japanese version, one of the ways she says she loved Aster is "''daisuki datta''", which is NOT how one would talk about a daughter. To me, the ridiculous thing (no offense) is to state that and act like that is the only valid interpretation of the game's ambiguousness, when very, very little is stated on the topic. There are many people and many views on this, and it's hard to completely confirm or invalidate any of them. I'm really not comfortable with letting the character's article stating anything like an objective truth when none of the points you mention seem like proof to me, aside from the fact that Aster was most likely a human. It is only your opinion, and not a neutral statement of the few facts we do have for sure. [[User:Azalee|Azalee]] ([[User talk:Azalee|talk]]) 00:29, 27 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== B/W reference ==<br />
<br />
In Granite Cave, she mentions truths and ideals- is this a reference to Reshiram & Zekrom? It seems so, but publishing speculation is not acceptable. Would it be appropriate to link the B/W articles there, or am I making references in my head? <br />
[[User:Partone|Partone]] ([[User talk:Partone|talk]]) 08:54, 22 December 2014 (UTC)Partone<br />
<br />
<br />
This certainly is a direct reference to B/W, actually. [[User:-AuraGuardian-|-AuraGuardian-]] ([[User talk:-AuraGuardian-|talk]]) 06:34, 2 January 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Zinnia's Grandmother ==<br />
<br />
Can we get a page on this ASAP? She does play a pretty heavy part in the Delta episode, by giving vital information, and she's related to the last Lorekeeper, Zinnia, while also happening to be both a Move Tutor and the only and last tutor to re-teach Rayquaza Dragon Ascent, which is pretty important, as it's needed for Ray to ME. Additionally, she is one of the remaining Draconids, so she needs a page. (Was looking for certain quotes said in-game for the DE that only come from this character, so when I couldn't find it, I was disappointed.) [[User:-AuraGuardian-|-AuraGuardian-]] ([[User talk:-AuraGuardian-|talk]]) 06:32, 2 January 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Parallel Hoenn ==<br />
<br />
I find it strange that something Zinnia mentioned as profound as "A Hoenn region that's almost exactly like this one we live in" is never really explored in the article. The only time it is mentioned is in the direct quote from her. It's a very strange thing for her to bring up, and has some far-reaching implications. As is linked in the article, it may indeed be a reference to the original Ruby and Sapphire versions, and in this case it is the first time (as far as I know) that a character seems aware of the remake versions being distinct in some way from the originals. It would also imply that OR/AS aren't meant to be simply remakes of R/S, but also that they take place in a parallel but equally valid universe. This raises questions of not only when the games take place relative to each others' timelines, but in what universe? What is different about the Kalos region in the old universe, if the great war never happened, and the ultimate weapon never constructed? Does this not deserve further investigation? Though, I'm afraid all we can do right now is speculate. [[User:MofoMan2000|MofoMan2000]] ([[User talk:MofoMan2000|talk]]) 05:40, 18 March 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I guess there are some blurbs about it in other articles, but usually only a short sentence. I'm more concerned with this article as it is now. [[User:MofoMan2000|MofoMan2000]] ([[User talk:MofoMan2000|talk]]) 06:01, 18 March 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Zinnia's...not grandmother ==<br />
<br />
In the English script, Zinnia calls the old Draconid woman in [[Meteor Falls]] "Grannie", but in the Japanese script, she calls her ババさま, which is much more likely to be a respectful address for an old woman than a way of calling one's own grandmother. It's harder to argue, but in English, "Grannie" really doesn't ''have'' to refer to one's own grandmother either. I think we should remove the claims that that old woman is Zinnia's grandmother.<br />
<br />
This seems like it could easily attract argument, so I wanted to check here first if anyone else has any thoughts on the matter? [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 08:11, 5 November 2015 (UTC)<br />
:If there's not enough info to confirm a closer relation between them, I agree that simply mentioning her as "[the] old Draconid woman" is enough. [[User:SatoMew2|SatoMew2]] ([[User talk:SatoMew2|talk]]) 14:08, 5 November 2015 (UTC)</div>Azaleehttps://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Zinnia&diff=2371956Talk:Zinnia2015-12-26T23:49:56Z<p>Azalee: /* Aster's namesake */</p>
<hr />
<div>==Aster's namesake==<br />
<br />
In the climax of the Delta Episode, right before Rayquaza is summoned, Zinnia describes how Aster is named after someone dear to her who passed away. In the Magma/Aqua Hideout she describes Aster (the Whismur) as her "daughter", and the revelation at Sky Pillar makes it slightly unclear whether, when she speaks to Aster at various points in the game, she's addressing the actual Pokémon or Aster's namesake.<br />
<br />
I don't want to add anything too speculative since the scene is extremely ambiguous, but I do think that some of the explicit facts about Aster (namely, that she's named after a deceased character) deserve to be mentioned on the page outside of the quotes themselves. Arguably Aster might even deserve a section on the page, the same way [AZ]'s Floette does. —[[User:AndyPKMN|Andy<sup>P</sup><sub>K</sub><sup>M</sup><sub>N</sub>]] [[User talk:AndyPKMN|(talk)]] 01:41, 13 December 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:i think it should be a trivia thing; considering that Zinnia said that she 'lost her' it's evident that she's speaking of Aster's namesake since Aster is directly next to her. My suggestion is a sister or daughter, but to remove speculation it's simpler to point out in trivia something along the lines of 'Although Aster is almost always beside her, Zinnia sometimes speaks about having lost Aster, suggesting that she may have named the Whismur after someone close to her who died prior to the events of the Game.' So it's based more factually than theoretically. All in all, i do agree that it is something noteworthy [[User:Azure42|Azure/ChromeVoid42]] ([[User talk:Azure42|talk]]) 20:08, 12 January 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I agree on making a separate page or at least a subsection for the original Aster and all info on her, especially since she has also been mentioned in the Adventures manga (complete with a vague picture). The current blurb about her definitely needs editing: from Zinnia's dialogue, it's impossible that the original Aster was her daughter ("''Ever since I was a little girl, I have always turned my eyes up to the sky.''" + "''... I used to watch the stars like this all the time... Together with Aster. We were always together.''" means they've been watching the stars together since they were little and Aster must have been the same age or older than Zinnia).<br />
::[[User:Azalee|Azalee]] ([[User talk:Azalee|talk]]) 20:10, 26 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
:::Those quotes are very far apart and not explicitly (or necessarily reasonably) connected like you want to think they are. At the very least: when Zinnia says they were "always" together, that could easily be "always, since Aster was born", not "always, for '''my''' whole life". [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 21:01, 26 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
::::If we're going to argue semantics, you wouldn't say "We were always together" when you're doing something with your baby daughter — the baby doesn't have a lot of choice on the matter. Zinnia does playfully refer to the current Aster as her daughter, but never to the deceased one (for that matter, it's never even stated whether the deceased Aster was a human, though Adventures went that way); that's a far bigger logic jump to make. I went ahead and edited Pokémon!Aster's blurb to make that clearer, since I noticed after commenting that the last talks on this page were almost a year old... [[User:Azalee|Azalee]] ([[User talk:Azalee|talk]]) 21:18, 26 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
:::::I don't see that it's important that the baby ''have'' any any choice in the matter for someone to reasonably word it "We were always together". If I had a child and I raised her and cared for her every day and then&mdash;let's say she got sick and died. I wouldn't have any problem at all saying "We were always together" about that.<br />
:::::You also say she refers to the current (Whismur) Aster as her daughter, but that's plainly ridiculous: a Pokemon can't be her daughter. Either it's 1) affectionate, or 2) there's more going on, and a bunch of other clues point very strongly to "2": Zinnia had a daughter who Aster the Whismur occasionally acts as a stand-in for. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 21:32, 26 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
::::::I'm asking what your other clues ''are''. There is nothing in Zinnia or anyone's dialogue that says the deceased Aster was her daughter; it's too big of an assumption. We know next to nothing about Zinnia and even less about Aster. She could have been another Pokémon, she could have been a friend or another family member, or, as in Adventures canon, the previous Lorekeeper. As discussed above, I think the best way to follow the community guidelines and be neutral and keep to fact is to say the only things known for sure: 1) she addresses the Pokémon as her daughter, 2) the Pokémon seems to be named after a close one whom she has a lost. I thought my edit was neutral enough, do you have any problems with it? Anyway anything longer doesn't belong in the Pokémon's blurb — perhaps the many theories and possibilities about who Aster may have been can go in the trivia section, under the Adventures mention. Let's not get into an edit war over this.<br />
::::::(And for why Zinnia would call a Pokémon her daughter, a lot of NPCs refer to Pokémon as their 'babies', such as the Fans class, and it's not uncommon for people to call themselves their pet's mother in real life either.)[[User:Azalee|Azalee]] ([[User talk:Azalee|talk]]) 21:41, 26 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
:::::::It's easy to call a pet (or Pokemon) something like your "baby" or maybe even your "little girl" or something, but the same thing does ''not'' happen with "son" or "daughter". Those are totally different.<br />
:::::::Evidence, then...<br />
:::::::*That Aster is human and not a Pokemon: ''"... See that, Aster? You always wanted to watch them, right? The Litleonids."'' Sure, supposedly you can understand Pokemon and all, but that's definitely more a sentiment a person would have expressed directly to Zinnia.<br />
:::::::*That the person is her daughter: A) again, "daughter", from Zinnia, clearly suggests Whismur is a stand-in for her daughter; and B) "Mum"/"Mama" from Whismur. Alone either of those might leave room for just Zinnia being weird or something; but ''together'' it's entirely reasonable to assume they have real meaning.<br />
:::::::These all paint a reasonable, clear picture. Why would it reasonably ''not'' be her daughter? (By in-game canon, that is; the manga and games are ''not'' strictly related.)<br />
:::::::Sure, if you want to be pedantic, it's definitely not a certainty. But we've shown the basic evidence for the claim made; people are entirely free to make up their own minds. In the meantime, we shouldn't be obliged to skirt a plain conclusion. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 22:16, 26 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
::::::::Ah, I'd forgotten about the Litleonids quote, I concede that, but not the second point (since, again, she's talking to the Pokémon and not about the original Aster). Like you said: it's not a certainty, and clearly it's not a plain conclusion since a lot of people came to a different conclusion — including the Adventures scenarist — and even the people above who thought it might be a daughter think it's too ambiguous to state anything. If there's room for people to spontaneously understand something else from the situation, then it's not hard, certain fact, and I think the article's phrasing should reflect that, like in all other ambiguous hints in canon (for instance, the possibility of games!Silver being games!Giovanni child, until HGSS confirmed it). "Please only submit information you know to be accurate, and adhere to a neutral point of view. Do not misrepresent rumors, misconceptions or opinions as fact."<br />
::::::::What about something like "Zinnia addresses Aster like a mother would her daughter, blabla, Aster seems to be named after someone whom Zinnia loved dearly "lost".", and perhaps in the Trivia section, "The identity of Aster's namesake and the circumstances of her death are unclear. She was someone dear to Zinnia, such as a daughter or a friend. In the Adventures manga, Aster's namesake was the previous Lorekeeper."?[[User:Azalee|Azalee]] ([[User talk:Azalee|talk]]) 23:49, 26 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== B/W reference ==<br />
<br />
In Granite Cave, she mentions truths and ideals- is this a reference to Reshiram & Zekrom? It seems so, but publishing speculation is not acceptable. Would it be appropriate to link the B/W articles there, or am I making references in my head? <br />
[[User:Partone|Partone]] ([[User talk:Partone|talk]]) 08:54, 22 December 2014 (UTC)Partone<br />
<br />
<br />
This certainly is a direct reference to B/W, actually. [[User:-AuraGuardian-|-AuraGuardian-]] ([[User talk:-AuraGuardian-|talk]]) 06:34, 2 January 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Zinnia's Grandmother ==<br />
<br />
Can we get a page on this ASAP? She does play a pretty heavy part in the Delta episode, by giving vital information, and she's related to the last Lorekeeper, Zinnia, while also happening to be both a Move Tutor and the only and last tutor to re-teach Rayquaza Dragon Ascent, which is pretty important, as it's needed for Ray to ME. Additionally, she is one of the remaining Draconids, so she needs a page. (Was looking for certain quotes said in-game for the DE that only come from this character, so when I couldn't find it, I was disappointed.) [[User:-AuraGuardian-|-AuraGuardian-]] ([[User talk:-AuraGuardian-|talk]]) 06:32, 2 January 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Parallel Hoenn ==<br />
<br />
I find it strange that something Zinnia mentioned as profound as "A Hoenn region that's almost exactly like this one we live in" is never really explored in the article. The only time it is mentioned is in the direct quote from her. It's a very strange thing for her to bring up, and has some far-reaching implications. As is linked in the article, it may indeed be a reference to the original Ruby and Sapphire versions, and in this case it is the first time (as far as I know) that a character seems aware of the remake versions being distinct in some way from the originals. It would also imply that OR/AS aren't meant to be simply remakes of R/S, but also that they take place in a parallel but equally valid universe. This raises questions of not only when the games take place relative to each others' timelines, but in what universe? What is different about the Kalos region in the old universe, if the great war never happened, and the ultimate weapon never constructed? Does this not deserve further investigation? Though, I'm afraid all we can do right now is speculate. [[User:MofoMan2000|MofoMan2000]] ([[User talk:MofoMan2000|talk]]) 05:40, 18 March 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I guess there are some blurbs about it in other articles, but usually only a short sentence. I'm more concerned with this article as it is now. [[User:MofoMan2000|MofoMan2000]] ([[User talk:MofoMan2000|talk]]) 06:01, 18 March 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Zinnia's...not grandmother ==<br />
<br />
In the English script, Zinnia calls the old Draconid woman in [[Meteor Falls]] "Grannie", but in the Japanese script, she calls her ババさま, which is much more likely to be a respectful address for an old woman than a way of calling one's own grandmother. It's harder to argue, but in English, "Grannie" really doesn't ''have'' to refer to one's own grandmother either. I think we should remove the claims that that old woman is Zinnia's grandmother.<br />
<br />
This seems like it could easily attract argument, so I wanted to check here first if anyone else has any thoughts on the matter? [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 08:11, 5 November 2015 (UTC)<br />
:If there's not enough info to confirm a closer relation between them, I agree that simply mentioning her as "[the] old Draconid woman" is enough. [[User:SatoMew2|SatoMew2]] ([[User talk:SatoMew2|talk]]) 14:08, 5 November 2015 (UTC)</div>Azaleehttps://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Zinnia&diff=2371930Talk:Zinnia2015-12-26T21:41:31Z<p>Azalee: sorry i keep forgetting to sign</p>
<hr />
<div>==Aster's namesake==<br />
<br />
In the climax of the Delta Episode, right before Rayquaza is summoned, Zinnia describes how Aster is named after someone dear to her who passed away. In the Magma/Aqua Hideout she describes Aster (the Whismur) as her "daughter", and the revelation at Sky Pillar makes it slightly unclear whether, when she speaks to Aster at various points in the game, she's addressing the actual Pokémon or Aster's namesake.<br />
<br />
I don't want to add anything too speculative since the scene is extremely ambiguous, but I do think that some of the explicit facts about Aster (namely, that she's named after a deceased character) deserve to be mentioned on the page outside of the quotes themselves. Arguably Aster might even deserve a section on the page, the same way [AZ]'s Floette does. —[[User:AndyPKMN|Andy<sup>P</sup><sub>K</sub><sup>M</sup><sub>N</sub>]] [[User talk:AndyPKMN|(talk)]] 01:41, 13 December 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:i think it should be a trivia thing; considering that Zinnia said that she 'lost her' it's evident that she's speaking of Aster's namesake since Aster is directly next to her. My suggestion is a sister or daughter, but to remove speculation it's simpler to point out in trivia something along the lines of 'Although Aster is almost always beside her, Zinnia sometimes speaks about having lost Aster, suggesting that she may have named the Whismur after someone close to her who died prior to the events of the Game.' So it's based more factually than theoretically. All in all, i do agree that it is something noteworthy [[User:Azure42|Azure/ChromeVoid42]] ([[User talk:Azure42|talk]]) 20:08, 12 January 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I agree on making a separate page or at least a subsection for the original Aster and all info on her, especially since she has also been mentioned in the Adventures manga (complete with a vague picture). The current blurb about her definitely needs editing: from Zinnia's dialogue, it's impossible that the original Aster was her daughter ("''Ever since I was a little girl, I have always turned my eyes up to the sky.''" + "''... I used to watch the stars like this all the time... Together with Aster. We were always together.''" means they've been watching the stars together since they were little and Aster must have been the same age or older than Zinnia).<br />
::[[User:Azalee|Azalee]] ([[User talk:Azalee|talk]]) 20:10, 26 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
:::Those quotes are very far apart and not explicitly (or necessarily reasonably) connected like you want to think they are. At the very least: when Zinnia says they were "always" together, that could easily be "always, since Aster was born", not "always, for '''my''' whole life". [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 21:01, 26 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
::::If we're going to argue semantics, you wouldn't say "We were always together" when you're doing something with your baby daughter — the baby doesn't have a lot of choice on the matter. Zinnia does playfully refer to the current Aster as her daughter, but never to the deceased one (for that matter, it's never even stated whether the deceased Aster was a human, though Adventures went that way); that's a far bigger logic jump to make. I went ahead and edited Pokémon!Aster's blurb to make that clearer, since I noticed after commenting that the last talks on this page were almost a year old... [[User:Azalee|Azalee]] ([[User talk:Azalee|talk]]) 21:18, 26 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
:::::I don't see that it's important that the baby ''have'' any any choice in the matter for someone to reasonably word it "We were always together". If I had a child and I raised her and cared for her every day and then&mdash;let's say she got sick and died. I wouldn't have any problem at all saying "We were always together" about that.<br />
:::::You also say she refers to the current (Whismur) Aster as her daughter, but that's plainly ridiculous: a Pokemon can't be her daughter. Either it's 1) affectionate, or 2) there's more going on, and a bunch of other clues point very strongly to "2": Zinnia had a daughter who Aster the Whismur occasionally acts as a stand-in for. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 21:32, 26 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
::::::I'm asking what your other clues ''are''. There is nothing in Zinnia or anyone's dialogue that says the deceased Aster was her daughter; it's too big of an assumption. We know next to nothing about Zinnia and even less about Aster. She could have been another Pokémon, she could have been a friend or another family member, or, as in Adventures canon, the previous Lorekeeper. As discussed above, I think the best way to follow the community guidelines and be neutral and keep to fact is to say the only things known for sure: 1) she addresses the Pokémon as her daughter, 2) the Pokémon seems to be named after a close one whom she has a lost. I thought my edit was neutral enough, do you have any problems with it? Anyway anything longer doesn't belong in the Pokémon's blurb — perhaps the many theories and possibilities about who Aster may have been can go in the trivia section, under the Adventures mention. Let's not get into an edit war over this.<br />
::::::(And for why Zinnia would call a Pokémon her daughter, a lot of NPCs refer to Pokémon as their 'babies', such as the Fans class, and it's not uncommon for people to call themselves their pet's mother in real life either.)[[User:Azalee|Azalee]] ([[User talk:Azalee|talk]]) 21:41, 26 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== B/W reference ==<br />
<br />
In Granite Cave, she mentions truths and ideals- is this a reference to Reshiram & Zekrom? It seems so, but publishing speculation is not acceptable. Would it be appropriate to link the B/W articles there, or am I making references in my head? <br />
[[User:Partone|Partone]] ([[User talk:Partone|talk]]) 08:54, 22 December 2014 (UTC)Partone<br />
<br />
<br />
This certainly is a direct reference to B/W, actually. [[User:-AuraGuardian-|-AuraGuardian-]] ([[User talk:-AuraGuardian-|talk]]) 06:34, 2 January 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Zinnia's Grandmother ==<br />
<br />
Can we get a page on this ASAP? She does play a pretty heavy part in the Delta episode, by giving vital information, and she's related to the last Lorekeeper, Zinnia, while also happening to be both a Move Tutor and the only and last tutor to re-teach Rayquaza Dragon Ascent, which is pretty important, as it's needed for Ray to ME. Additionally, she is one of the remaining Draconids, so she needs a page. (Was looking for certain quotes said in-game for the DE that only come from this character, so when I couldn't find it, I was disappointed.) [[User:-AuraGuardian-|-AuraGuardian-]] ([[User talk:-AuraGuardian-|talk]]) 06:32, 2 January 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Parallel Hoenn ==<br />
<br />
I find it strange that something Zinnia mentioned as profound as "A Hoenn region that's almost exactly like this one we live in" is never really explored in the article. The only time it is mentioned is in the direct quote from her. It's a very strange thing for her to bring up, and has some far-reaching implications. As is linked in the article, it may indeed be a reference to the original Ruby and Sapphire versions, and in this case it is the first time (as far as I know) that a character seems aware of the remake versions being distinct in some way from the originals. It would also imply that OR/AS aren't meant to be simply remakes of R/S, but also that they take place in a parallel but equally valid universe. This raises questions of not only when the games take place relative to each others' timelines, but in what universe? What is different about the Kalos region in the old universe, if the great war never happened, and the ultimate weapon never constructed? Does this not deserve further investigation? Though, I'm afraid all we can do right now is speculate. [[User:MofoMan2000|MofoMan2000]] ([[User talk:MofoMan2000|talk]]) 05:40, 18 March 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I guess there are some blurbs about it in other articles, but usually only a short sentence. I'm more concerned with this article as it is now. [[User:MofoMan2000|MofoMan2000]] ([[User talk:MofoMan2000|talk]]) 06:01, 18 March 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Zinnia's...not grandmother ==<br />
<br />
In the English script, Zinnia calls the old Draconid woman in [[Meteor Falls]] "Grannie", but in the Japanese script, she calls her ババさま, which is much more likely to be a respectful address for an old woman than a way of calling one's own grandmother. It's harder to argue, but in English, "Grannie" really doesn't ''have'' to refer to one's own grandmother either. I think we should remove the claims that that old woman is Zinnia's grandmother.<br />
<br />
This seems like it could easily attract argument, so I wanted to check here first if anyone else has any thoughts on the matter? [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 08:11, 5 November 2015 (UTC)<br />
:If there's not enough info to confirm a closer relation between them, I agree that simply mentioning her as "[the] old Draconid woman" is enough. [[User:SatoMew2|SatoMew2]] ([[User talk:SatoMew2|talk]]) 14:08, 5 November 2015 (UTC)</div>Azaleehttps://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Zinnia&diff=2371927Talk:Zinnia2015-12-26T21:39:09Z<p>Azalee: /* Aster's namesake */</p>
<hr />
<div>==Aster's namesake==<br />
<br />
In the climax of the Delta Episode, right before Rayquaza is summoned, Zinnia describes how Aster is named after someone dear to her who passed away. In the Magma/Aqua Hideout she describes Aster (the Whismur) as her "daughter", and the revelation at Sky Pillar makes it slightly unclear whether, when she speaks to Aster at various points in the game, she's addressing the actual Pokémon or Aster's namesake.<br />
<br />
I don't want to add anything too speculative since the scene is extremely ambiguous, but I do think that some of the explicit facts about Aster (namely, that she's named after a deceased character) deserve to be mentioned on the page outside of the quotes themselves. Arguably Aster might even deserve a section on the page, the same way [AZ]'s Floette does. —[[User:AndyPKMN|Andy<sup>P</sup><sub>K</sub><sup>M</sup><sub>N</sub>]] [[User talk:AndyPKMN|(talk)]] 01:41, 13 December 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:i think it should be a trivia thing; considering that Zinnia said that she 'lost her' it's evident that she's speaking of Aster's namesake since Aster is directly next to her. My suggestion is a sister or daughter, but to remove speculation it's simpler to point out in trivia something along the lines of 'Although Aster is almost always beside her, Zinnia sometimes speaks about having lost Aster, suggesting that she may have named the Whismur after someone close to her who died prior to the events of the Game.' So it's based more factually than theoretically. All in all, i do agree that it is something noteworthy [[User:Azure42|Azure/ChromeVoid42]] ([[User talk:Azure42|talk]]) 20:08, 12 January 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I agree on making a separate page or at least a subsection for the original Aster and all info on her, especially since she has also been mentioned in the Adventures manga (complete with a vague picture). The current blurb about her definitely needs editing: from Zinnia's dialogue, it's impossible that the original Aster was her daughter ("''Ever since I was a little girl, I have always turned my eyes up to the sky.''" + "''... I used to watch the stars like this all the time... Together with Aster. We were always together.''" means they've been watching the stars together since they were little and Aster must have been the same age or older than Zinnia).<br />
::[[User:Azalee|Azalee]] ([[User talk:Azalee|talk]]) 20:10, 26 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
:::Those quotes are very far apart and not explicitly (or necessarily reasonably) connected like you want to think they are. At the very least: when Zinnia says they were "always" together, that could easily be "always, since Aster was born", not "always, for '''my''' whole life". [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 21:01, 26 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
::::If we're going to argue semantics, you wouldn't say "We were always together" when you're doing something with your baby daughter — the baby doesn't have a lot of choice on the matter. Zinnia does playfully refer to the current Aster as her daughter, but never to the deceased one (for that matter, it's never even stated whether the deceased Aster was a human, though Adventures went that way); that's a far bigger logic jump to make. I went ahead and edited Pokémon!Aster's blurb to make that clearer, since I noticed after commenting that the last talks on this page were almost a year old... [[User:Azalee|Azalee]] ([[User talk:Azalee|talk]]) 21:18, 26 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
:::::I don't see that it's important that the baby ''have'' any any choice in the matter for someone to reasonably word it "We were always together". If I had a child and I raised her and cared for her every day and then&mdash;let's say she got sick and died. I wouldn't have any problem at all saying "We were always together" about that.<br />
:::::You also say she refers to the current (Whismur) Aster as her daughter, but that's plainly ridiculous: a Pokemon can't be her daughter. Either it's 1) affectionate, or 2) there's more going on, and a bunch of other clues point very strongly to "2": Zinnia had a daughter who Aster the Whismur occasionally acts as a stand-in for. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 21:32, 26 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
::::::I'm asking what your other clues ''are''. There is nothing in Zinnia or anyone's dialogue that says the deceased Aster was her daughter; it's too big of an assumption. We know next to nothing about Zinnia and even less about Aster. She could have been another Pokémon, she could have been a friend or another family member, or, as in Adventures canon, the previous Lorekeeper. As discussed above, I think the best way to follow the community guidelines and be neutral and keep to fact is to say the only things known for sure: 1) she addresses the Pokémon as her daughter, 2) the Pokémon seems to be named after a close one whom she has a lost. I thought my edit was neutral enough, do you have any problems with it? Anyway anything longer doesn't belong in the Pokémon's blurb — perhaps the many theories and possibilities about who Aster may have been can go in the trivia section, under the Adventures mention. Let's not get into an edit war over this.<br />
<br />
== B/W reference ==<br />
<br />
In Granite Cave, she mentions truths and ideals- is this a reference to Reshiram & Zekrom? It seems so, but publishing speculation is not acceptable. Would it be appropriate to link the B/W articles there, or am I making references in my head? <br />
[[User:Partone|Partone]] ([[User talk:Partone|talk]]) 08:54, 22 December 2014 (UTC)Partone<br />
<br />
<br />
This certainly is a direct reference to B/W, actually. [[User:-AuraGuardian-|-AuraGuardian-]] ([[User talk:-AuraGuardian-|talk]]) 06:34, 2 January 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Zinnia's Grandmother ==<br />
<br />
Can we get a page on this ASAP? She does play a pretty heavy part in the Delta episode, by giving vital information, and she's related to the last Lorekeeper, Zinnia, while also happening to be both a Move Tutor and the only and last tutor to re-teach Rayquaza Dragon Ascent, which is pretty important, as it's needed for Ray to ME. Additionally, she is one of the remaining Draconids, so she needs a page. (Was looking for certain quotes said in-game for the DE that only come from this character, so when I couldn't find it, I was disappointed.) [[User:-AuraGuardian-|-AuraGuardian-]] ([[User talk:-AuraGuardian-|talk]]) 06:32, 2 January 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Parallel Hoenn ==<br />
<br />
I find it strange that something Zinnia mentioned as profound as "A Hoenn region that's almost exactly like this one we live in" is never really explored in the article. The only time it is mentioned is in the direct quote from her. It's a very strange thing for her to bring up, and has some far-reaching implications. As is linked in the article, it may indeed be a reference to the original Ruby and Sapphire versions, and in this case it is the first time (as far as I know) that a character seems aware of the remake versions being distinct in some way from the originals. It would also imply that OR/AS aren't meant to be simply remakes of R/S, but also that they take place in a parallel but equally valid universe. This raises questions of not only when the games take place relative to each others' timelines, but in what universe? What is different about the Kalos region in the old universe, if the great war never happened, and the ultimate weapon never constructed? Does this not deserve further investigation? Though, I'm afraid all we can do right now is speculate. [[User:MofoMan2000|MofoMan2000]] ([[User talk:MofoMan2000|talk]]) 05:40, 18 March 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I guess there are some blurbs about it in other articles, but usually only a short sentence. I'm more concerned with this article as it is now. [[User:MofoMan2000|MofoMan2000]] ([[User talk:MofoMan2000|talk]]) 06:01, 18 March 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Zinnia's...not grandmother ==<br />
<br />
In the English script, Zinnia calls the old Draconid woman in [[Meteor Falls]] "Grannie", but in the Japanese script, she calls her ババさま, which is much more likely to be a respectful address for an old woman than a way of calling one's own grandmother. It's harder to argue, but in English, "Grannie" really doesn't ''have'' to refer to one's own grandmother either. I think we should remove the claims that that old woman is Zinnia's grandmother.<br />
<br />
This seems like it could easily attract argument, so I wanted to check here first if anyone else has any thoughts on the matter? [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 08:11, 5 November 2015 (UTC)<br />
:If there's not enough info to confirm a closer relation between them, I agree that simply mentioning her as "[the] old Draconid woman" is enough. [[User:SatoMew2|SatoMew2]] ([[User talk:SatoMew2|talk]]) 14:08, 5 November 2015 (UTC)</div>Azaleehttps://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Zinnia&diff=2371918Talk:Zinnia2015-12-26T21:18:05Z<p>Azalee: /* Aster's namesake */</p>
<hr />
<div>==Aster's namesake==<br />
<br />
In the climax of the Delta Episode, right before Rayquaza is summoned, Zinnia describes how Aster is named after someone dear to her who passed away. In the Magma/Aqua Hideout she describes Aster (the Whismur) as her "daughter", and the revelation at Sky Pillar makes it slightly unclear whether, when she speaks to Aster at various points in the game, she's addressing the actual Pokémon or Aster's namesake.<br />
<br />
I don't want to add anything too speculative since the scene is extremely ambiguous, but I do think that some of the explicit facts about Aster (namely, that she's named after a deceased character) deserve to be mentioned on the page outside of the quotes themselves. Arguably Aster might even deserve a section on the page, the same way [AZ]'s Floette does. —[[User:AndyPKMN|Andy<sup>P</sup><sub>K</sub><sup>M</sup><sub>N</sub>]] [[User talk:AndyPKMN|(talk)]] 01:41, 13 December 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:i think it should be a trivia thing; considering that Zinnia said that she 'lost her' it's evident that she's speaking of Aster's namesake since Aster is directly next to her. My suggestion is a sister or daughter, but to remove speculation it's simpler to point out in trivia something along the lines of 'Although Aster is almost always beside her, Zinnia sometimes speaks about having lost Aster, suggesting that she may have named the Whismur after someone close to her who died prior to the events of the Game.' So it's based more factually than theoretically. All in all, i do agree that it is something noteworthy [[User:Azure42|Azure/ChromeVoid42]] ([[User talk:Azure42|talk]]) 20:08, 12 January 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I agree on making a separate page or at least a subsection for the original Aster and all info on her, especially since she has also been mentioned in the Adventures manga (complete with a vague picture). The current blurb about her definitely needs editing: from Zinnia's dialogue, it's impossible that the original Aster was her daughter ("''Ever since I was a little girl, I have always turned my eyes up to the sky.''" + "''... I used to watch the stars like this all the time... Together with Aster. We were always together.''" means they've been watching the stars together since they were little and Aster must have been the same age or older than Zinnia).<br />
::[[User:Azalee|Azalee]] ([[User talk:Azalee|talk]]) 20:10, 26 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
:::Those quotes are very far apart and not explicitly (or necessarily reasonably) connected like you want to think they are. At the very least: when Zinnia says they were "always" together, that could easily be "always, since Aster was born", not "always, for '''my''' whole life". [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 21:01, 26 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
If we're going to argue semantics, you wouldn't say "We were always together" when you're doing something with your baby daughter — the baby doesn't have a lot of choice on the matter. Zinnia does playfully refer to the current Aster as her daughter, but never to the deceased one (for that matter, it's never even stated whether the deceased Aster was a human, though Adventures went that way); that's a far bigger logic jump to make. I went ahead and edited Pokémon!Aster's blurb to make that clearer, since I noticed after commenting that the last talks on this page were almost a year old... [[User:Azalee|Azalee]] ([[User talk:Azalee|talk]]) 21:18, 26 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== B/W reference ==<br />
<br />
In Granite Cave, she mentions truths and ideals- is this a reference to Reshiram & Zekrom? It seems so, but publishing speculation is not acceptable. Would it be appropriate to link the B/W articles there, or am I making references in my head? <br />
[[User:Partone|Partone]] ([[User talk:Partone|talk]]) 08:54, 22 December 2014 (UTC)Partone<br />
<br />
<br />
This certainly is a direct reference to B/W, actually. [[User:-AuraGuardian-|-AuraGuardian-]] ([[User talk:-AuraGuardian-|talk]]) 06:34, 2 January 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Zinnia's Grandmother ==<br />
<br />
Can we get a page on this ASAP? She does play a pretty heavy part in the Delta episode, by giving vital information, and she's related to the last Lorekeeper, Zinnia, while also happening to be both a Move Tutor and the only and last tutor to re-teach Rayquaza Dragon Ascent, which is pretty important, as it's needed for Ray to ME. Additionally, she is one of the remaining Draconids, so she needs a page. (Was looking for certain quotes said in-game for the DE that only come from this character, so when I couldn't find it, I was disappointed.) [[User:-AuraGuardian-|-AuraGuardian-]] ([[User talk:-AuraGuardian-|talk]]) 06:32, 2 January 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Parallel Hoenn ==<br />
<br />
I find it strange that something Zinnia mentioned as profound as "A Hoenn region that's almost exactly like this one we live in" is never really explored in the article. The only time it is mentioned is in the direct quote from her. It's a very strange thing for her to bring up, and has some far-reaching implications. As is linked in the article, it may indeed be a reference to the original Ruby and Sapphire versions, and in this case it is the first time (as far as I know) that a character seems aware of the remake versions being distinct in some way from the originals. It would also imply that OR/AS aren't meant to be simply remakes of R/S, but also that they take place in a parallel but equally valid universe. This raises questions of not only when the games take place relative to each others' timelines, but in what universe? What is different about the Kalos region in the old universe, if the great war never happened, and the ultimate weapon never constructed? Does this not deserve further investigation? Though, I'm afraid all we can do right now is speculate. [[User:MofoMan2000|MofoMan2000]] ([[User talk:MofoMan2000|talk]]) 05:40, 18 March 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I guess there are some blurbs about it in other articles, but usually only a short sentence. I'm more concerned with this article as it is now. [[User:MofoMan2000|MofoMan2000]] ([[User talk:MofoMan2000|talk]]) 06:01, 18 March 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Zinnia's...not grandmother ==<br />
<br />
In the English script, Zinnia calls the old Draconid woman in [[Meteor Falls]] "Grannie", but in the Japanese script, she calls her ババさま, which is much more likely to be a respectful address for an old woman than a way of calling one's own grandmother. It's harder to argue, but in English, "Grannie" really doesn't ''have'' to refer to one's own grandmother either. I think we should remove the claims that that old woman is Zinnia's grandmother.<br />
<br />
This seems like it could easily attract argument, so I wanted to check here first if anyone else has any thoughts on the matter? [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 08:11, 5 November 2015 (UTC)<br />
:If there's not enough info to confirm a closer relation between them, I agree that simply mentioning her as "[the] old Draconid woman" is enough. [[User:SatoMew2|SatoMew2]] ([[User talk:SatoMew2|talk]]) 14:08, 5 November 2015 (UTC)</div>Azaleehttps://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Zinnia&diff=2371917Talk:Zinnia2015-12-26T21:17:42Z<p>Azalee: /* Aster's namesake */</p>
<hr />
<div>==Aster's namesake==<br />
<br />
In the climax of the Delta Episode, right before Rayquaza is summoned, Zinnia describes how Aster is named after someone dear to her who passed away. In the Magma/Aqua Hideout she describes Aster (the Whismur) as her "daughter", and the revelation at Sky Pillar makes it slightly unclear whether, when she speaks to Aster at various points in the game, she's addressing the actual Pokémon or Aster's namesake.<br />
<br />
I don't want to add anything too speculative since the scene is extremely ambiguous, but I do think that some of the explicit facts about Aster (namely, that she's named after a deceased character) deserve to be mentioned on the page outside of the quotes themselves. Arguably Aster might even deserve a section on the page, the same way [AZ]'s Floette does. —[[User:AndyPKMN|Andy<sup>P</sup><sub>K</sub><sup>M</sup><sub>N</sub>]] [[User talk:AndyPKMN|(talk)]] 01:41, 13 December 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:i think it should be a trivia thing; considering that Zinnia said that she 'lost her' it's evident that she's speaking of Aster's namesake since Aster is directly next to her. My suggestion is a sister or daughter, but to remove speculation it's simpler to point out in trivia something along the lines of 'Although Aster is almost always beside her, Zinnia sometimes speaks about having lost Aster, suggesting that she may have named the Whismur after someone close to her who died prior to the events of the Game.' So it's based more factually than theoretically. All in all, i do agree that it is something noteworthy [[User:Azure42|Azure/ChromeVoid42]] ([[User talk:Azure42|talk]]) 20:08, 12 January 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I agree on making a separate page or at least a subsection for the original Aster and all info on her, especially since she has also been mentioned in the Adventures manga (complete with a vague picture). The current blurb about her definitely needs editing: from Zinnia's dialogue, it's impossible that the original Aster was her daughter ("''Ever since I was a little girl, I have always turned my eyes up to the sky.''" + "''... I used to watch the stars like this all the time... Together with Aster. We were always together.''" means they've been watching the stars together since they were little and Aster must have been the same age or older than Zinnia).<br />
::[[User:Azalee|Azalee]] ([[User talk:Azalee|talk]]) 20:10, 26 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
:::Those quotes are very far apart and not explicitly (or necessarily reasonably) connected like you want to think they are. At the very least: when Zinnia says they were "always" together, that could easily be "always, since Aster was born", not "always, for '''my''' whole life". [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 21:01, 26 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
If we're going to argue semantics, you wouldn't say "We were always together" when you're doing something with your baby daughter — the baby doesn't have a lot of choice on the matter. Zinnia does playfully refer to the current Aster as her daughter, but never to the deceased one (for that matter, it's never even stated whether the deceased Aster was a human, though Adventures went that way); that's a far bigger logic jump to make. I went ahead and edited Pokémon!Aster's blurb to make that clearer, since I noticed after commenting that the last talks on this page were almost a year old...<br />
<br />
== B/W reference ==<br />
<br />
In Granite Cave, she mentions truths and ideals- is this a reference to Reshiram & Zekrom? It seems so, but publishing speculation is not acceptable. Would it be appropriate to link the B/W articles there, or am I making references in my head? <br />
[[User:Partone|Partone]] ([[User talk:Partone|talk]]) 08:54, 22 December 2014 (UTC)Partone<br />
<br />
<br />
This certainly is a direct reference to B/W, actually. [[User:-AuraGuardian-|-AuraGuardian-]] ([[User talk:-AuraGuardian-|talk]]) 06:34, 2 January 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Zinnia's Grandmother ==<br />
<br />
Can we get a page on this ASAP? She does play a pretty heavy part in the Delta episode, by giving vital information, and she's related to the last Lorekeeper, Zinnia, while also happening to be both a Move Tutor and the only and last tutor to re-teach Rayquaza Dragon Ascent, which is pretty important, as it's needed for Ray to ME. Additionally, she is one of the remaining Draconids, so she needs a page. (Was looking for certain quotes said in-game for the DE that only come from this character, so when I couldn't find it, I was disappointed.) [[User:-AuraGuardian-|-AuraGuardian-]] ([[User talk:-AuraGuardian-|talk]]) 06:32, 2 January 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Parallel Hoenn ==<br />
<br />
I find it strange that something Zinnia mentioned as profound as "A Hoenn region that's almost exactly like this one we live in" is never really explored in the article. The only time it is mentioned is in the direct quote from her. It's a very strange thing for her to bring up, and has some far-reaching implications. As is linked in the article, it may indeed be a reference to the original Ruby and Sapphire versions, and in this case it is the first time (as far as I know) that a character seems aware of the remake versions being distinct in some way from the originals. It would also imply that OR/AS aren't meant to be simply remakes of R/S, but also that they take place in a parallel but equally valid universe. This raises questions of not only when the games take place relative to each others' timelines, but in what universe? What is different about the Kalos region in the old universe, if the great war never happened, and the ultimate weapon never constructed? Does this not deserve further investigation? Though, I'm afraid all we can do right now is speculate. [[User:MofoMan2000|MofoMan2000]] ([[User talk:MofoMan2000|talk]]) 05:40, 18 March 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I guess there are some blurbs about it in other articles, but usually only a short sentence. I'm more concerned with this article as it is now. [[User:MofoMan2000|MofoMan2000]] ([[User talk:MofoMan2000|talk]]) 06:01, 18 March 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Zinnia's...not grandmother ==<br />
<br />
In the English script, Zinnia calls the old Draconid woman in [[Meteor Falls]] "Grannie", but in the Japanese script, she calls her ババさま, which is much more likely to be a respectful address for an old woman than a way of calling one's own grandmother. It's harder to argue, but in English, "Grannie" really doesn't ''have'' to refer to one's own grandmother either. I think we should remove the claims that that old woman is Zinnia's grandmother.<br />
<br />
This seems like it could easily attract argument, so I wanted to check here first if anyone else has any thoughts on the matter? [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 08:11, 5 November 2015 (UTC)<br />
:If there's not enough info to confirm a closer relation between them, I agree that simply mentioning her as "[the] old Draconid woman" is enough. [[User:SatoMew2|SatoMew2]] ([[User talk:SatoMew2|talk]]) 14:08, 5 November 2015 (UTC)</div>Azaleehttps://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Zinnia&diff=2371893Zinnia2015-12-26T20:51:39Z<p>Azalee: Very little is known about the original Aster, but Zinnia's dialogue (also in original Japanese) mentions she watched the stars with Aster since she was little, making it impossible that the original Aster was her daughter.</p>
<hr />
<div>{{spoilers}}<br />
{{CharInfobox|<br />
color={{dragon color}}|<br />
corecolor={{dragon color light}}|<br />
bordercolor={{dragon color dark}}|<br />
name=Zinnia|<br />
jname=ヒガナ|<br />
tmname=Higana|<br />
size=x340px|<br />
image=Omega Ruby Alpha Sapphire Zinnia.png |<br />
caption=Art from {{pkmn|Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire}} |<br />
gender=Female |<br />
region=[[Hoenn]]|<br />
trainerclass=[[Pokémon Trainer]], Lorekeeper|<br />
hometown=Unknown |<br />
relatives=Unnamed grandmother |<br />
game=yes |<br />
generation={{gen|VI}} |<br />
games={{pkmn|Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire}} |<br />
team=yes |<br />
teamname=[[Team Magma]]{{sup/6|OR}}, [[Team Aqua]]{{sup/6|AS}} |<br />
teamrank=Grunt |<br />
footnotes=}}<br />
<br />
'''Zinnia''' (Japanese: '''ヒガナ''' ''Higana'') is a mysterious [[Draconid people|Draconid woman]] and a [[Pokémon Trainer]] from [[Hoenn]]. She is described as a special person who holds the key to the [[Delta Episode]] in {{pkmn|Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire}}, on a trip to accomplish her objectives.<br />
<br />
Zinnia uses {{type|Dragon}} {{OBP|Pokémon|species}} in battle, including a {{p|Salamence}} she can [[Mega Evolution|Mega Evolve]] into {{me|Salamence}} using her [[Key Stone|Mega Anklet]]. She also travels with a female {{p|Whismur}} [[nickname]]d '''Aster''' (Japanese: '''シガナ''' ''Shigana''). She is the only character in the games to have the {{DL|Pokémon Trainer|Trainer class}} '''Lorekeeper''' (Japanese: '''でんしょうしゃ''' ''Lorekeeper'').<br />
<br />
==In the games==<br />
Zinnia makes three cameo appearances prior to the Delta Episode, disguised as a {{tc|Team Magma Grunt}}{{sup/6|OR}}/{{tc|Team Aqua Grunt}}{{sup/6|AS}}. She is first seen after the {{player}} exits [[Petalburg Woods]] on the way to [[Rustboro City]]. Her second appearance is on [[Mt. Chimney]] with two other {{tc|Team Magma Grunt}}s{{sup/6|OR}}/{{tc|Team Aqua Grunt}}s{{sup/6|AS}} battling [[Archie]]{{sup/6|OR}}/[[Maxie]]{{sup/6|AS}}. Her third appearance is during the montage cutscene in [[Mossdeep City]] after the player saves Hoenn from [[Primal Reversion|Primal]] {{p|Groudon}}{{sup/6|OR}}/{{p|Kyogre}}{{sup/6|AS}}.<br />
<br />
After the player defeats {{Steven}} and becomes {{pkmn|Champion}}, Zinnia is shown in a cutscene discarding her team's uniform. She then meets the player at their home before breaking into [[Professor Birch]]'s home and stealing {{ga|Brendan}}/{{ga|May}}'s [[Key Stone]]. Later, when the player visits [[Granite Cave]] looking for a {{key|VI|Meteorite Shard}} on Steven's request, she appears studying the cave's ancient painting. After a short conversation, Zinnia asks to battle with the player.<br />
<br />
At the [[Meteor Falls]], while looking for a Meteorite Shard, the player and Steven learn from an old Draconid woman that Zinnia joined Team Magma{{sup/6|OR}}/Team Aqua{{sup/6|AS}} and manipulated them in the hopes of having Groudon{{sup/6|OR}}/Kyogre{{sup/6|AS}} resurrected in order to call {{p|Rayquaza}} back to the {{pkmn|world}} to destroy the meteoroid, being fully aware of the fact that her actions would risk the lives of many [[human|people]] and {{OBP|Pokémon|species}}. However, as the player had managed to stop the super-ancient Pokémon, she had been forced to change her plan.<br />
<br />
Zinnia makes another appearance at [[Mossdeep Space Center]], listening in on [[Professor Cozmo]]'s plan to send the oncoming meteoroid to another dimension using technology powered by the Meteorite Shards. Believing this plan will doom the world of another dimension to destruction, she destroys the device, then steals the Key Stone from the head of the team she had joined and challenges the player to meet her at the [[Sky Pillar]].<br />
<br />
After the player secures permission to enter the Sky Pillar from [[Wallace]], Zinnia explains the lore of the Draconids as they ascend the tower together. At the top floor, she uses the stolen Key Stones to summon Rayquaza to the Sky Pillar, but her plan fails when Rayquaza does not Mega Evolve despite her efforts. Just as she falls into despair, the Meteorite the player has been carrying for much of the game activates and is consumed by Rayquaza, granting it its missing power. Once the player has captured Rayquaza and added it to their party, Zinnia teaches it {{m|Dragon Ascent}}, then challenges the player to one last battle (which the player does not need to win to progress).<br />
<br />
Once the player has gone into space with Mega Rayquaza, destroyed the meteoroid and battled {{p|Deoxys}}, Zinnia disappears from the Sky Pillar. She leaves behind a note with Aster thanking the player for their help. Later at Meteor Falls, her grandmother tells her that she should find her own purpose in life now that she is freed from her lifelong duty. She agrees and leaves her Salamencite with the player before departing. Zinnia's whereabouts after this point are unknown.<br />
<br />
===Pokémon===<br />
====Aster====<br />
{{TrainerPoké<br />
|trainer=Zinnia<br />
|nick=Aster<br />
|gender=female<br />
|type1=normal<br />
|img=Spr 6x 293.png<br />
|epnum=Pokémon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire<br />
|desc=When she is not in disguise, Zinnia is usually accompanied by a {{p|Whismur}} nicknamed '''Aster''' (Japanese: '''シガナ''' ''Shigana''). Zinnia occasionally addresses her like a mother might a daughter, calling her "my daughter" in response to Aster's occasional cries of "Mum" (Japanese: '''ママー''' ''Mama''). Aster seems to have been named after a person (or Pokémon) close to Zinnia who has passed away.<br />
}}<br />
<br />
====First battle====<br />
{{Party/Single<br />
|color={{dragon color}}<br />
|headcolor={{dragon color light}}<br />
|bordercolor={{dragon color dark}}<br />
|sprite=VSZinnia.png<br />
|size=150px<br />
|prize={{Pdollar}}5,700<br />
|class=Pokémon Trainer<br />
|classlink=Pokémon Trainer<br />
|name=Zinnia<br />
|game=ORAS<br />
|location=Granite Cave<br />
|pokemon=3}}<br />
|{{Pokémon/6<br />
|ndex=697<br />
|pokemon=Tyrantrum<br />
|gender=male<br />
|level=55<br />
|type1=Rock|type2=Dragon<br />
|ability=Strong Jaw<br />
|move1=Dragon Claw|move1type=Dragon|move1cat=Physical<br />
|move2=Crunch|move2type=Dark|move2cat=Physical<br />
|move3=Earthquake|move3type=Ground|move3cat=Physical<br />
|move4=Stone Edge|move4type=Rock|move4cat=Physical}}<br />
|{{Pokémon/6<br />
|ndex=334<br />
|pokemon=Altaria<br />
|gender=female<br />
|level=55<br />
|type1=Dragon|type2=Flying<br />
|ability=Natural Cure<br />
|move1=Dragon Pulse|move1type=Dragon|move1cat=Special<br />
|move2=Moonblast|move2type=Fairy|move2cat=Special<br />
|move3=Flamethrower|move3type=Fire|move3cat=Special<br />
|move4=Hyper Voice|move4type=Normal|move4cat=Special}}<br />
|{{Pokémon/6<br />
|ndex=373<br />
|pokemon=Salamence<br />
|gender=male<br />
|level=57<br />
|type1=Dragon|type2=Flying<br />
|ability=Intimidate<br />
|move1=Dragon Claw|move1type=Dragon|move1cat=Physical<br />
|move2=Crunch|move2type=Dark|move2cat=Physical<br />
|move3=Fire Fang|move3type=Fire|move3cat=Physical<br />
|move4=Thunder Fang|move4type=Electric|move4cat=Physical}}<br />
{{Party/Footer}}<br />
<br />
====Second battle====<br />
{{Party/Single<br />
|color={{dragon color}}<br />
|headcolor={{dragon color light}}<br />
|bordercolor={{dragon color dark}}<br />
|sprite=VSZinnia.png<br />
|size=150px<br />
|prize={{Pdollar}}6,200<br />
|class=Lorekeeper<br />
|classlink=Zinnia<br />
|name=Zinnia<br />
|game=ORAS<br />
|location=Sky Pillar<br />
|pokemon=5}}<br />
|{{Pokémon/6<br />
|ndex=706<br />
|pokemon=Goodra<br />
|gender=female<br />
|level=60<br />
|type1=Dragon<br />
|ability=Sap Sipper<br />
|move1=Dragon Pulse|move1type=Dragon|move1cat=Special<br />
|move2=Muddy Water|move2type=Water|move2cat=Special<br />
|move3=Thunderbolt|move3type=Electric|move3cat=Special<br />
|move4=Ice Beam|move4type=Ice|move4cat=Special}}<br />
|{{Pokémon/6<br />
|ndex=697<br />
|pokemon=Tyrantrum<br />
|gender=male<br />
|level=60<br />
|type1=Rock|type2=Dragon<br />
|ability=Strong Jaw<br />
|move1=Dragon Claw|move1type=Dragon|move1cat=Physical<br />
|move2=Crunch|move2type=Dark|move2cat=Physical<br />
|move3=Earthquake|move3type=Ground|move3cat=Physical<br />
|move4=Stone Edge|move4type=Rock|move4cat=Physical}}<br />
|{{Pokémon/6<br />
|ndex=334<br />
|pokemon=Altaria<br />
|gender=female<br />
|level=60<br />
|type1=Dragon|type2=Flying<br />
|ability=Natural Cure<br />
|move1=Dragon Pulse|move1type=Dragon|move1cat=Special<br />
|move2=Moonblast|move2type=Fairy|move2cat=Special<br />
|move3=Flamethrower|move3type=Fire|move3cat=Special<br />
|move4=Hyper Voice|move4type=Normal|move4cat=Special}}<br />
{{Party/Div|color={{dragon color}}}}<br />
| style="margin:auto" |{{Pokémon/6<br />
|ndex=715<br />
|pokemon=Noivern<br />
|gender=female<br />
|level=60<br />
|type1=Flying|type2=Dragon<br />
|ability=Infiltrator<br />
|move1=Dragon Pulse|move1type=Dragon|move1cat=Special<br />
|move2=Air Slash|move2type=Flying|move2cat=Special<br />
|move3=Shadow Ball|move3type=Ghost|move3cat=Special<br />
|move4=Super Fang|move4type=Normal|move4cat=Physical}}<br />
| style="margin:auto" |{{Pokémon/6<br />
|ndex=373<br />
|pokemon=Salamence<br />
|gender=male<br />
|level=62<br />
|type1=Dragon|type2=Flying<br />
|ability=Intimidate<br />
|held=Salamencite<br />
|move1=Dragon Claw|move1type=Dragon|move1cat=Physical<br />
|move2=Crunch|move2type=Dark|move2cat=Physical<br />
|move3=Fire Fang|move3type=Fire|move3cat=Physical<br />
|move4=Thunder Fang|move4type=Electric|move4cat=Physical}}<br />
{{Party/Footer}}<br />
<br />
====Status unknown====<br />
{| style="width: 84px"<br />
|-<br />
| {{ActivePoké|Zinnia|Poochyena|261Poochyena.png|dark|dark|size=100px|link=Poochyena (Pokémon)}}<br />
|}<br />
<br />
When fighting Archie{{sup/6|OR}}/Maxie{{sup/6|AS}} at Mt. Chimney, Zinnia is seen with a {{p|Poochyena}}; however, its relationship with Zinnia is currently unknown.<br />
<br />
===Quotes===<br />
====[[Pokémon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire]]====<br />
;[[Petalburg Woods]]<br />
:''"...This is the Petalburg recon team checking in. I'm afraid I have to begin with an apology, [[Magma Admin Courtney|Ms. Courtney]]{{sup/6|OR}}/[[Aqua Admin Matt|Mr. Matt]]{{sup/6|AS}}... It's not good news... It's not good news... The mission is a no-go... A little something cropped up and got in the way... ...Roger that. ...Got it. Will do. I'll continue investigating that energy we detected."''<br />
:''"... ...Phew!"''<br />
:''"But that kid sure had some promise as a Trainer, I'd say."''<br />
<br />
;[[Mt. Chimney]]<br />
:''"The energy contained within Mt. Chimney! And the power of the {{key|VI|Meteorite}}! We in [[Team Magma]]{{sup/6|OR}}/[[Team Aqua]]{{sup/6|AS}} are gonna get it all for ourselves! Wa ha ha ha!"''<br />
<br />
;[[Sky Pillar]]<br />
:''"... Looks like I won't be needing THIS... Hiyyup!"''<br />
:''"Phew! That's sooo much better! Ooooh, I feel so free! That uniform got pretty stinky after a while! And all sweaty, too!"''<br />
:''"Ohhh, my adorable little Aster! ♪ Are you that happy to see me looking like myself again, hmm? ♪ Ahhh, you're just too darned cute! Like always!"''<br />
:''"Phew."''<br />
:''"But there's not much time left for us. It'll only be a matter of weeks... ...No. Days. Things have gotten a bit tricky now, since that kid managed to stop one of the super-ancient Pokémon from being revived like it should've been. Not that it's a really big deal. I've already thought of a new plan. If I just tweak a bit with a Key Stone, one with plenty of THAT built up..."''<br />
:''"{{tt|I swear I'll protect you. ...Aster.|This may have been mistranslated. It could also be, &quot;I swear I'll protect the world...Aster.&quot;, with Zinnia speaking to her dead friend instead of her Whismur.}}"''<br />
<br />
;[[Littleroot Town]]<br />
:''"Huh? Whoa! Are we in sync or what! You know, I was just thinking about you! It's great to meet you! ...It is our first real meeting, right? Yeah. That's right. Of course it is! The name's Zinnia. And you... Well, I know ALL about you. You're <{{player}}>, of course. You're the new Pokémon League Champion! And you're one of those special few who use Mega Evolution to get even closer to their Pokémon... Now, aren't you?"''<br />
:''"OK, I know, I know. I'll leave it alone. Look, I'm stopping! But this sure is a ni-i-i-ice place, isn't it? Littleroot Town. And everybody living here is just so ni-i-i-ice, too. Like that neighbor of yours. ...Oops! So-o-o-rry. I didn't mean to go on like that. We should keep our first meeting short and sweet, don't you think? Until next time, then. Buh-bye!"''<br />
<br />
;[[Granite Cave]]<br />
:''"Hm, hm, hm. Well, seems like it's true. It really is just like the wall painting there. This one shows Primal Reversion... While that one shows Mega Evolution... I guess that proves it once and for all. Our great ancestors once lived here, too. The ancestors who passed down through me the knowledge of how to protect the world... How to avert the threat that will appear from space, as long was foretold... From a place higher even than the heavens..."''<br />
:''"What is it, Aster? Oh?"''<br />
:''"We do seem to meet an awful lot, <player>. Are you also interested in this old painting? Or are you here for the other? For one of the {{key|VI|Meteorite Shard}}s that can serve as a source of power for the Legendary Pokémon that lives in the heavens above. Either way... You know I adore you. That's it! I can't help it! I have to battle you! I'll play nice, though, and ask first... You're ready to battle me, right?"''<br />
::'''Yes''': ''"That's my {{tt|boy|If the player is a boy}}/{{tt|girl|If the player is a girl}}!"''<br />
::'''No''': ''"Fine, fine. I ge-e-et it. I'll wait. I want to see you at your best, y' know. So go get ready!"''<br />
:''"Now let's do it! Give me a good taste of everything you and your Pokémon have to offer!"''<br />
<br />
* Being defeated<br />
:''"Yes! That's it! That's just what I was looking for!"''<br />
<br />
* After being defeated<br />
:''"Niiice! Real nice, <player>! Ohhh, I really felt that one! Full points to you! That settles it! You get this Meteorite Shard as a reward!"''<br />
:''"That glittering Meteorite that you've got there... Hmm... It's sure giving off some vibes. I'd keep a tight hold on it if I were you, along with that shard I just gave you."''<br />
:''"... Hey... The actions that you're taking now... Are they based on the {{p|Zekrom|ideals}} you cling to? Or are they based on actual {{p|Reshiram|truths}}? And if they are... How much of the truth do you think you know?"''<br />
:''"Yes, ma'am! Moving out! Such a spoiled girl you are, Aster... So what'll be our next stop, hmm, sweetie?"''<br />
<br />
;[[Mossdeep Space Center]] (first visit)<br />
:''"Nice! So this is the heart of the famous Space Center everyone talks about! Pretty impressive, huh, Aster?"''<br />
:''"Oh? Where's the harm in it? Don't be such a stick-in-the-mud! ♪"''<br />
:''"...Right?"''<br />
:''"Oh me, we do seem to keep running into one another. You are a busy {{tt|boy|If the player is a boy}}/{{tt|gal|If the player is a girl}}, <player>."''<br />
:''"Me? I'm Zinnia. Just your regular ol' tourist, nothing more. Dreaming of taking a little trip into space... Heh. Oh, I seeeeee... So this is what has come of human technology and of hope and blood and sweat and tears and... Well, the list gets kinda long and boring. But it contains everything, huh? I know all about it. About just what kinda energy you're using to fuel this rocket thing... The abominable technology humanity first thought up 3,000 years ago... So you're once again planning to claim that this is best for humanity, or best for the whole darn world... It's a snap of your fingers to repeat the sins of the past. Worse, if what I overheard is true... This time, you're about to commit an error more abominable than before!"''<br />
:''"Ahahahaha! What's up with that? You're a pretty simple guy for a former Pokémon League Champion. Then I guess I'll hang my hopes on what our current Champion will have to say. So how about it, <player>? What do you think? Do you have some better idea?"''<br />
::'''You bet I do!''': ''"Oooh! Really? Well, that's promising... You'll have to tell me so we can set these guys straight."''<br />
::'''I've got nothing''': ''"Really? Too bad. Guess I was expecting more than I should have from you. Hey, that's fine, though. That's pretty normal."''<br />
:''"Look, I'm not here to criticize the way you guys are looking at this. But I want to be sure you've thought this through well and good. You know, there are necessary sacrifices, and there are unnecessary sacrifices. What a disappointment! This is the best you could do with all your knowledge and technology? Instead of trying to make something outta nothing, you'd rather repeat the mistakes of the past, straight up? No, you're gonna add new mistakes on top—that really takes the cake. You guys need some imagination."''<br />
:''"Oops! But you were all in the middle of a conversation or something, right? Sorry about that. I guess we'll just let ourselves out, then. C'mon, Aster."''<br />
<br />
;[[Mossdeep Space Center]] (second visit)<br />
:''"Nice one, Aster!"''<br />
:''"The Draconid, yup. Or you could just call me Zinnia. Aster!"''<br />
:''"Thank you, dear. Now then... That is an impressive machine. Snap your fingers, the asteroid vanishes, and we all live happily ever after? Ahahahah! Indeed! It's like that former Champ said! This thing is the best hope we have of saving this planet and everything on it. But you know... It could also be the worst tragedy imaginable for some other world and everything on it."''<br />
:''"I'm not talking to {{Steven|you}}. You don't get it."''<br />
:''"But you, <player>... Hope for our world... Tragedy for another... You get it, don't you?"''<br />
::'''I do''': ''"And you come through again! You never disappoint me."''<br />
::'''I don't''': ''"I suppose not. I'm not that surprised. It's pretty normal you wouldn't."''<br />
:''"My people know it. From generation to generation, we pass along the lore about the distortions in the world borne by the Mega Evolution mechanism. And about the existence of {{game|Ruby and Sapphire|s|another world}}, which we have long observed to be just like this one and yet not the same... That's right. A Hoenn region that's almost exactly like this one we live in. Filled with Pokémon and people like us. A world where maybe the evolution of Pokémon took a slightly different path, where Mega Evolution is unknown... A world where that war 3,000 years ago...never happened. A world where the [[ultimate weapon]] was never even built. And in that Hoenn of that world... What would happen if one day, out of the blue, a meteoroid appeared? What would happen to the people of that world, without the technology to destroy the meteoroid or the power to warp it away? ... Looks like it's beyond the power of your imagination."''<br />
:''"Calm down there, Prof. It'll be OK. I... We... We can protect this world...and the other."''<br />
:''"Oh yeah! Silly me... I forgot the other thing I came for."''<br />
:''"And that's the Key Stone gotten... Now I'll put it together with the Key Stone they've got in their base..."''<br />
:''"Looks like my next appointment is calling, so I'll excuse myself now. Later!"''<br />
<br />
;[[Team Magma Hideout]]{{sup/6|OR}}/[[Team Aqua Hideout]]{{sup/6|AS}}<br />
:''"All right! And the winner is Zinnia!"''<br />
:''"Oh, oh, what's this? Aren't you a happy girl, Aster? ♪ Just what I'd expect of my daughter! We're so in sync! Ahahaha!"''<br />
:''"Who am I? That's a surprisingly difficult question. ... I couldn't become who I was supposed to be, so who does that make me now? ... Haha! Whatever, right? Enough with the introspection and the soul searching... You there! <player>! Don't just stand there like a stick in the mud. Come on over and say hi."''<br />
:''"Isn't it obvious? {{tt|He's|If the player is a boy}}/{{tt|She's|If the player is a girl}} the {{tt|hero|If the player is a boy}}/{{tt|heroine|If the player is a girl}}, right? Here to save the world again. Oops. But looks like {{tt|he's|If the player is a boy}}/{{tt|she's|If the player is a girl}} a bit too late this time. If only you'd been here just one minute earlier!"''<br />
:''"All right. I'd say this Key Stone is mine. We finally got everything, Aster."''<br />
:''"Now we can do it: The summoning. We will summon Rayquaza! Well then, looks like my job here is done. So don't mind me while I excuse myself. Oh. <player>? I really hope you'll come chasing after me, you know? We'll be heading to that ancient tower, sealed since primal times, the [[Sky Pillar]]. If you don't know what that is, well, ask that former Champ of yours. He'll know what I'm talking about. See you there!"''<br />
<br />
;[[Sky Pillar]]<br />
* First floor<br />
:''"So you came for me. Thanks for that. That's really good, <player>. I really feel it, right here. Mm-hmm..."''<br />
:''"Since you've been a good {{tt|boy|If the player is a boy}}/{{tt|girl|If the player is a girl}}, I think I'll give you something I've been keeping."''<br />
:''"Look... The paintings that cover the walls of this tower... See, these are the history of humanity, of Pokémon, and of nature itself. They're the tales that have been passed down by my ancestors, the Draconids, for thousands of years. And now...I will pass that history and lore on to you.<br />
:''"Thousands of years ago, in the primal age long lost, the world was overflowing with natural energy. Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre fought over that energy in endless, furious clashes."''<br />
:''"In the face of Primal Groudon and Kyogre's great power, people could do nothing. The only choice was to watch as disaster upon disaster swept over them. It was in such a time that a great many meteoroids poured from the darkness of space, from a place higher even than the heavens. And the meteoroids fell in their multitude upon a waterfall that had long been home to a tribe of Dragon-type-Pokémon users..."''<br />
:''"...OK! That's it! That's the end of the first chapter of my tale."''<br />
:''"I'll tell you the next part of the story on the next floor. Look forward to it!"''<br />
<br />
* Second floor<br />
:''"Oh! Here you are!"''<br />
:''"Let me continue. It's finally time for chapter two. Here we go!"''<br />
:''"At last, right? Hah! I know you're thrilled."''<br />
:''"The meteors shone with a rainbow brilliance, as if some great life was held within."''<br />
:''"That was when, as if drawn by the brilliance, a Pokémon that shone in a blazing emerald hue descended from the heavens... That Pokémon was none other than Rayquaza. Rayquaza's power overwhelmed that of the two Primal Pokémon, and peace returned to the world. The people of Hoenn revered Rayquaza as a true savior. A thousand years after this time, the meteoroids once again fell. A huge meteoroid, far greater than any before, struck the planet, boring deep into the ocean and leaving behind it a crater larger than any other. The land born of this event later become known as {{ci|Sootopolis}}."''<br />
:''"And that is it! Chapter two is over! But we've only just left the starting line. There's a long way yet—don't fall behind now!"''<br />
<br />
* Third floor<br />
:''"Now, our tale reaches the best part. Sootopolis was born from a great meteoroid strike."''<br />
:''"The great meteoroid was the first of many disasters to befall humanity. When it punched into the planet, the land cracked beneath it, and a great welling of natural energy poured from beneath Hoenn. Thirsting for that energy, Primal Kyogre and Primal Groudon once again woke.<br />
:"''The people had a wish—a memory from a thousand years before... They wished that the Legendary Pokémon clad in emerald light would appear again. The huge Meteorite that lay at the heart of Sootopolis gave off a boundless brilliance. In its brilliance, it resembled a vast and powerful Key Stone. And once again, Rayquaza descended from whence it came in the heavens. The people fell to their knees before Rayquaza and made a wish for salvation. As they did, a great change came over the Legendary Pokémon. It was enveloped in blinding light. As the light receded, they beheld a Rayquaza beyond all knowledge— a sublime figure, incandescent with overwhelming life force. It was humanity's wish that brought about Rayquaza's transformation in the face of the rainbow stone... Yes... A wish... An intangible thing, invisible to the eye. Yet this wish bound people and Pokémon together, enabling the Legendary Pokémon to change its appearance... Doesn't it remind you of something? That's right... It sounds like Mega Evolution, doesn't it?"''<br />
<br />
* Fourth floor<br />
:''"And how did the story end? After being transformed by the wish of the people, did Rayquaza save them from disaster?"''<br />
:''"Rayquaza once again confronted Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre. The golden filaments that sprang from its body covered the sky. An emerald brilliance illuminated the area. {{a|Delta Stream|A terrible wind}} rose."''<br />
:''"The wind and emerald light visibly sapped the power from Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre. Drained of their primal powers, the two vanished into the depths of land and sea. Rayquaza watched them go, regaining its usual appearance. Then it soared back up into the heavens where it dwelled. A witness to this series of events, [[AZ|a tall visitor]] from [[Kalos|a distant land]], said, “It is the Δ (Delta), born of the great disturbances in this world. By the bonds born of mankind's wish and the power of the stones, it will calm the troubles that plague the world.” That was when the Draconids constructed their great tower, to hold the rainbow stone that had granted Rayquaza its power, and to try to get a little bit closer to Rayquaza in the heavens above. To record the history of their trials and the great feats of mighty Rayquaza for all to know, they left behind the murals you see here."''<br />
:''"A giant tower... And paintings of the past... You know, I feel like I've seen something like that recently. Heh. But now, I suppose it's time for the last chapter in our tale."''<br />
<br />
* Fifth floor<br />
:''"At last we reach the final chapter..."''<br />
:''"A thousand years of peace followed after that disastrous time. But the Draconid people, learning from their long history's cyclical nature, foretold that the meteoroids would fall on this land again. The meteoroid to come, they prophesized, would be far greater than those that had come before it. This meteoroid would be great enough to break the world forever..."''<br />
:''"In order to prevent this great calamity, those who held the knowledge of the past arrived at a plan. Their plan was to invoke Rayquaza, the great savior, and summon it to this land before the meteoroid could strike."''<br />
:''"And that's it. That's the end of our... of the Draconids' tale. I spent a long time thinking about how I could protect the happiness of as many people as possible. What I must do, as one who holds both the knowledge and the power... One who bears the heavy wishes of those who could not...live up to that fate... Well, I had to be really creative, you know?"''<br />
<br />
* Top floor<br />
:''"... See that, Aster? You always wanted to watch them, right? The {{p|Litleo}}nids. A million glittering stars falling from the sky... The show is about to start."''<br />
:''"Aren't we happy now? Yes, what could be better, dear Aster? Ha ha..."''<br />
:''"... Welcome to the Dragonhark altar. <player>. You know what I am trying to do here by now, don't you? That's right. I will summon Rayquaza to this world to destroy the meteoroid headed for Hoenn. That is my... It is our duty.<br />
:''"Ever since I was a little girl, I have always turned my eyes up to the sky. When I was so full of uncertainty that I felt my heart might be crushed by it... When I was so grief-stricken and alone I thought my heart might break of it... I turned and looked up there... so that my tears would never, ever fall. What about you? Have you ever had to do something like that?"''<br />
::'''I have''': ''"Right..."''<br />
::'''Never''': ''"Ahaha! You're just too honest! Don't you know that you're supposed to agree, and then we'd share a touching moment of pain?"''<br />
:''"... I used to watch the stars like this all the time... Together with Aster. We were always together. In good times and in bad. I loved her. I loved her with everything I had... But I still lost her."''<br />
:''"... Hahaha... ... I want to see her... I want to be with her again... My sweet Aster..."''<br />
:''"I will, won't I? With this... Just a little longer..."''<br />
:''"Guess I should say good morning?"''<br />
:''"You slept well, didn't you? You look so adorable when you sleep. Sorry about the knocking-you-out thing."''<br />
:''"... Enough. I think it's time I gave it a shot. "''<br />
:''"I'm sorry...for all the trouble I caused you. If something happens to me... Please... Take this little one..."''<br />
:''"... ... ...OK. Here I go."''<br />
:''"“With jewel bright and borrowed might from the spirits of the departed... Through sacred rite, in thy great sight, my life as well I offer...”"''<br />
:''"...Ugh...ngh...gh... “I summon thee...to aid...this fight... and save us...from disaster!” '''Realize them...upon this world...! For this I do summon thee!'''"''<br />
:''"'''Rayquazaaa!!!'''"''<br />
:''"'''!!!'''"''<br />
:''"Ray...quaza!"''<br />
:''"I did it! I...I did it!"''<br />
:''"Now the world...will be saved! Aster... Aster, I did it!"''<br />
:''"Great Rayquaza! Hear my wish! Achieve your Mega Evolution! Take hold of your true power! Show me your true face! The Rayquaza that will save this planet!"''<br />
:''"Huh?! H-how can this be?! I gathered all of the Key Stones that could withstand your great power... and summoned you here... You came... And yet... Why?!"''<br />
:''"'''Come on! Do it! Mega Evolve! Why?! Why won't you...'''"''<br />
:''"What?!"''<br />
:''"It can't be... The one without enough power...is you, Rayquaza?"''<br />
:''"The Meteorites that should lie within Rayquaza's great body...aren't enough? Have these thousand years drained them of their power?"''<br />
:''"This...can't...be... I can't... I... I... Everything...I've done...till now..."''<br />
:''"Aster... I can't... I can't take any...more..."''<br />
:''"...''"<br />
:''"That's—?!"''<br />
:''"What? That Meteorite?!"''<br />
:''"It's just like...a Mega Stone?!"''<br />
:''"'''Whoa!!!'''"''<br />
:''"Swallowing meteorites allows it to store as much power as a Mega Stone. Your Meteorite summoned forth the power needed for Rayquaza to Mega Evolve!"''<br />
:''"Hah! It's amazing!"''<br />
:''"<player>! {{tt|Rayquaza is trying to build up power... It wants power for itself to take you on!|This is mistranslated. It should be &quot;Rayquaza wants to test you, the one who gave it this power&quot;}} Use everything you've got and win over Rayquaza! You have to master it! This is the Legendary Pokémon that all Hoenn views as as our great protector! And the only one who can direct it now... It's you! You have to do this!"''<br />
<br />
* If the player has no [[Poké Ball]]s<br />
:''"If you need a Poké Ball, I've got {{ball|Ultra|one}}!"''<br />
<br />
* If talked to before facing Rayquaza<br />
:''"<player>! {{tt|Rayquaza is trying to build up power... It wants power for itself to take you on!|This is mistranslated. It should be &quot;Rayquaza wants to test you, the one who gave it this power&quot;}} Use everything you've got and win over Rayquaza! You have to master it!"''<br />
<br />
* If the player defeats or runs from Rayquaza<br />
:''"{{tt|Rayquaza is trying to build up power... It wants power for itself to take you on!|This is mistranslated. It should be &quot;Rayquaza wants to test you, the one who gave it this power&quot;}} Use everything you've got and win over Rayquaza! You have to catch it!"''<br />
<br />
* After catching Rayquaza<br />
:''"Is it...over?"''<br />
:''"... Congratulations, <player>. And...thank you."''<br />
:''"History has chosen you... The truth remains that Rayquaza chose you and not me... But... While I don't know how to put it into words exactly... I think I understand why... ...You will be successor to our long history now. And I pass to you the final key to Rayquaza's true power. The move that only it can learn: {{color2|00aeef|Dragon Ascent (move)|Dragon Ascent}}..."''<br />
:''"...That's it, then. I guess...it's time that I do my last task as Lorekeeper. You have obtained Rayquaza's power for your own... Now I will have you prove to me that you can master that power... in battle! That is my final... The final duty of the last Lorekeeper of the Draconid people! Show me that you can exceed it—the entirety of history that we have clung to until today!"''<br />
:''"...Phew. ... My pulse... I can feel it racing..."''<br />
:''"...Yes. I'm feeling...totally...pumped!"''<br />
:''"'''Haaahhh!'''"''<br />
:''"'''This is it!!'''"''<br />
<br />
* Being defeated<br />
:''"Just like I'd expect of you, <player>..."''<br />
<br />
* After the battle<br />
:''"..."''<br />
:''"...I guess...it falls to you now..."''<br />
:''"That settles it, then..."''<br />
:''"<player>, you should even be able to beat that meteoroid that's approaching the planet. You and Rayquaza...together. I am leaving this task to you, our new Successor. Successor <player>. You and Rayquaza must protect nature...Pokémon...the people..."''<br />
<br />
* After destroying the meteoroid, in a letter<br />
:''"“I was finally able to bring everything to an end. I thank you for that. I think I'll spend some time now trying to find out if it's also possible to forge a new beginning for something once lost. Until we meet again,''<br />
:::''Zinnia”"''<br />
<br />
;[[Meteor Falls]]<br />
:''"..."''<br />
:''"It's over... It's all over..."''<br />
:''"...Grannie."''<br />
:''"..."''<br />
:''"... ... Yes."''<br />
<br />
==In the manga==<br />
[[File:Zinnia Adventures.png|thumb|100px|Zinnia in Pokémon Adventures]]<br />
===In the Pokémon Adventures manga===<br />
Zinnia debuts in the {{chap|Omega Ruby & Alpha Sapphire}}. She is first encountered at the [[Sky Pillar]], where she meets {{adv|Ruby}} as he attempts to ascend it alongside {{p|Latios}}. Believing him to be an intruder, Zinnia attacks Ruby with her {{p|Salamence}}. Ruby manages to get the upper hand by tricking Zinnia's {{p|Whismur}}, Aster, with Pokéblocks, allowing him to pin Zinnia to the ground when she noticed Aster running off. He then demands to know who Zinnia is and what she knows about the upcoming crisis threatening to destroy Hoenn. Zinnia refuses to answer and escapes Ruby's grasp. She then uses her Mega Anklet to Mega Evolve her Salamence into a Mega Salamence. Ruby counters by Mega Evolving Latios into a Mega Latios with his Mega Bracelet. Ruby eventually manages to defeat Zinnia's Salamence, and reveals that he's aware that he encountered it before. <br />
<br />
Zinnia realizes that the person who defeated her Salamence years ago in her attempt to free Rayquaza from the [[Pokémon Association]] must have actually been Ruby all along. She congratulates Ruby for his battling skills and agrees to tell him everything she knows. She reveals that in nine days time, a meteoroid will hit the planet, destroying it and its inhabitants. Zinnia also reveals her hatred for the Devon Corporation due to its choice in using science and technology to prevent the meteoroid from falling. As she prepares to leave to focus on her mission to stop the meteoroid, Zinnia thanks Ruby for his assistance in freeing Rayquaza and flies off. Later, she muses over the fact that Ruby received his Mega Bracelet from Steven Stone, the son of the Devon Corporation's president and angrily wonders where Devon got Key Stones from.<br />
<br />
Later, Zinnia arrives at [[Sea Mauville]] with several Team Aqua and Team Magma Grunts. She finds [[Mr. Stone]] using the [[ultimate weapon|Absorber]] to drain the life energy of {{adv|Sapphire}}'s [[Chic]] and {{adv|Emerald}}'s [[Emerald's Sceptile|Sceptile]] in their Mega-Evolved states to power a machine that will be able to warp the meteoroid away. She reveals that she had spied on Team Magma and Team Aqua during their attempts to awaken Groudon and Kyogre and made allies with several of the Grunts of both teams. She and the Grunts attack everyone to steal the dimensional shifter that Mr. Stone was powering with Chic and Sceptile's life energy. Sapphire takes the dimensional shifter and attempts to run away, but Zinnia manages to take her Mega Bracelet with the Key Stone still inside. Zinnia then decides to go after Steven's Key Stone next and begins attacking him. Just as Zinnia gets the advantage in battle, Ruby arrives with his Mega {{p|Swampert}} [[Mumu]] and asks everyone to stop fighting.<br />
<br />
Ruby then begins battling Zinnia. After being told by the Grunts that Sapphire had disappeared with the dimensional shifter, she decides to retreat. Before leaving, Zinnia attacks Steven in an attempt to take his Key Stone. She is stopped again by Ruby, who offers up his and Emerald's Mega Bracelets to Zinnia to convince her to leave. Zinnia accepts the bribe and leaves, but Ruby reveals he secretly stole a scroll when Zinnia wasn't looking.<br />
<br />
====Pokémon====<br />
{{TrainerPoké<br />
|trainer=Zinnia<br />
|pkmn=Whismur<br />
|nick=Aster<br />
|type1=Normal<br />
|img=Zinnia Aster Adventures.png<br />
|epnum=PAORAS02<br />
|epname=<br />
|desc={{p|Whismur|Aster}} (Japanese: '''シガナ''' ''Shigana'') is Zinnia's first known Pokémon. It was first seen at the Sky Pillar with Zinnia and watched as Zinnia battled against Ruby. Ruby exploited Aster's taste for sour-flavored Pokéblocks to lure it out in the open. When Zinnia tried to get Aster to come back, she was left wide open for Ruby to pull her out of hiding and reveal herself. It has a Relaxed nature.<br />
<br />
None of Aster's moves are known.}}<br />
<br />
{{TrainerPoké<br />
|trainer=Zinnia<br />
|pkmn=Salamence<br />
|nick=Salamence ↔ Mega Salamence<br />
|type1=Dragon<br />
|type2=Flying<br />
|img=Zinnia Salamence Adventures.png<br />
|cap=Zinnia's Salamence<br />
|img2=Zinnia Mega Salamence Adventures.png<br />
|cap2=Zinnia's Mega Salamence<br />
|epnum=PS252<br />
|epname=The Beginning of the End with Kyogre & Groudon XIV<br />
|desc={{p|Salamence}} is Zinnia's second known Pokémon. It was used to battle against {{adv|Ruby}} and {{p|Latios}} at the Sky Pillar. Although its Defense and power increased after Mega Evolving into Mega Salamence, Ruby defeated it by Mega Evolving Latios into Mega Latios and firing off a {{m|Luster Purge}}. Afterward, Zinnia revealed that her Salamence was the same one that attacked Ruby and {{adv|Sapphire}} as children in an attempt to free {{p|Rayquaza}} from its capture at the hands of the [[Pokémon Association]]. <br />
<br />
Salamence's known moves are {{m|Dragon Claw}}, {{m|Fire Blast}} and {{m|Hyper Voice}}, and its Ability is {{a|Intimidate}} and {{a|Aerilate}} as a Mega Salamence.}}<br />
<br />
{{TrainerPoké<br />
|trainer=Zinnia<br />
|pkmn=Goodra<br />
|type1=Dragon<br />
|img=Zinnia Goodra Adventures.png<br />
|epnum=PAORAS08<br />
|epname=<br />
|desc={{p|Goodra}} is Zinnia's third known Pokémon. It was first used to attack Sea Mauville alongside Zinnia's Team Magma and Aqua Grunt allies. [[Ultima]] used her {{p|Dragonite}} to try and battle Goodra, only to be defeated. Later, Goodra battled Steven's Mega [[Steven's Metagross|Metagross]] and nearly managed to win with its Fire attacks before being interrupted by Ruby. <br />
<br />
Goodra's only known move is {{m|Sludge Wave}}.}}<br />
<br />
==Trivia==<br />
* In [[Pokémon Adventures]], it is revealed that Aster was a member of the [[Draconid people]] who was the Lorekeeper meant to stop the meteoroid. When Aster died, Zinnia decided to take her place and stop the meteoroid.<br />
<br />
==Names==<br />
{| class="roundy" style="background: #{{dragon color light}}; border: 3px solid #{{dragon color dark}}"<br />
|-<br />
!Language<br />
!Name<br />
!Origin<br />
|- style="background: #FFF;"<br />
| Japanese<br />
| ヒガナ ''Higana''<br />
| From 彼岸花 ''higanbana'' ({{wp|Lycoris radiata|red spider lily}}) and 彼岸 ''higan'' ({{wp|nirvana}}; literally means ''the other shore''). The red spider lily is portrayed as the "flower of heavens" in Buddhist scriptures. However, it is also known as 死人花 ''shibitobana'' (flower of the dead) in Japan and symbolizes "sorrowful memories" in the language of flowers.<br />
|- style="background: #FFF;"<br />
| English<br />
| Zinnia<br />
| From ''{{wp|Zinnia}}''. The flower symbolizes ''remembrance of a dear friend''.<br />
|- style="background: #FFF;"<br />
| French<br />
| Amaryllis<br />
| From ''{{wp|Amaryllis}}''<br />
|- style="background: #FFF;"<br />
| German<br />
| Amalia<br />
| From ''Amaryllis''<br />
|- style="background: #FFF;"<br />
| Italian<br />
| Lyris<br />
| From ''{{wp|Lycoris (plant)|Lycoris}}''<br />
|- style="background: #FFF;"<br />
| Spanish<br />
| Tristana<br />
| From ''{{wp|Tristagma}}'' and the name ''{{wp|Tristan (name)|Tristan}}'', meaning sorrowful. In the Arthurian legend, {{wp|Tristan}} was a knight who had slain a great serpent.<br />
|- style="background: #FFF;"<br />
| Korean<br />
| 피아나 ''Piana''<br />
| From 피안화 (彼岸花) ''Pi'anhwa'', red spider lily<br />
<!--|- style="background: #FFF;"<br />
| Chinese ({{tt|Mandarin|Taiwan}})<br />
|<br />
| --><br />
|}<br />
<br />
===Aster===<br />
{| class="roundy" style="background: #{{normal color light}}; border: 3px solid #{{normal color dark}}"<br />
|-<br />
!Language<br />
!Name<br />
!Origin<br />
|- style="background: #FFF;"<br />
| Japanese<br />
| シガナ ''Shigana''<br />
| From 此岸 ''shigan'' (mortal world; literally means ''this shore'')<br />
|- style="background: #FFF;"<br />
| English<br />
| Aster<br />
| From ''{{wp|Aster (genus)|Aster}}''. Starts with the letter 'A' to contrast with the letter 'Z' in ''Zinnia''.<br />
|- style="background: #FFF;"<br />
| French<br />
| Marie-Lise<br />
| From ''Amaryllis'' (Zinnia)<br />
|- style="background: #FFF;"<br />
| German<br />
| Avelina<br />
| From ''aveline'' (French for {{wp|hazelnut}})<br />
|- style="background: #FFF;"<br />
| Italian<br />
| Siryl<br />
| {{wp|Palindrome}} of ''Lyris'' (Zinnia)<br />
|- style="background: #FFF;"<br />
| Spanish<br />
| Felicia<br />
| From the plant genus ''{{wp|Felicia (genus)|Felicia}}'' and the name ''{{wp|Felicia}}'', meaning happy<br />
|- style="background: #FFF;"<br />
| Korean<br />
| 치아나 ''Chiana''<br />
| From 피아나 ''Piana'' (Zinnia) and 차안 (此岸) ''cha'an'', mortal realm<br />
<!--|- style="background: #FFF;"<br />
| Chinese ({{tt|Mandarin|Taiwan}})<br />
|<br />
| --><br />
|}<br />
<br />
===Lorekeeper===<br />
{{langtable|color={{dragon color light}}|bordercolor={{dragon color dark}}<br />
|fr=Gardienne du Savoir<br />
|de=Wissenshüterin<br />
|it=Custode del segreto<br />
|es=Cronista<br />
|ko=전승자 ''Jeonseungja''<br />
}}<br />
{{-}}<br />
{{Team Magma}}<br />
{{Team Aqua}}<br />
{{NPC|dragon|hoenn=yes}}<br />
{{trainerNav|dragon|hoenn=yes}}<br/><br />
{{Project CharacterDex notice}}<br />
<br />
[[Category:Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire characters]]<br />
[[Category:Trainers with unique classes]]<br />
[[Category:Dragon-type Trainers]]<br />
[[Category:Members of Team Aqua]]<br />
[[Category:Members of Team Magma]]<br />
<br />
[[de:Amalia]]<br />
[[fr:Amaryllis]]<br />
[[it:Lyris]]<br />
[[ja:ヒガナ]]<br />
[[zh:彼岸]]</div>Azaleehttps://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Zinnia&diff=2371887Talk:Zinnia2015-12-26T20:10:47Z<p>Azalee: /* Aster's namesake */</p>
<hr />
<div>==Aster's namesake==<br />
<br />
In the climax of the Delta Episode, right before Rayquaza is summoned, Zinnia describes how Aster is named after someone dear to her who passed away. In the Magma/Aqua Hideout she describes Aster (the Whismur) as her "daughter", and the revelation at Sky Pillar makes it slightly unclear whether, when she speaks to Aster at various points in the game, she's addressing the actual Pokémon or Aster's namesake.<br />
<br />
I don't want to add anything too speculative since the scene is extremely ambiguous, but I do think that some of the explicit facts about Aster (namely, that she's named after a deceased character) deserve to be mentioned on the page outside of the quotes themselves. Arguably Aster might even deserve a section on the page, the same way [AZ]'s Floette does. —[[User:AndyPKMN|Andy<sup>P</sup><sub>K</sub><sup>M</sup><sub>N</sub>]] [[User talk:AndyPKMN|(talk)]] 01:41, 13 December 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:i think it should be a trivia thing; considering that Zinnia said that she 'lost her' it's evident that she's speaking of Aster's namesake since Aster is directly next to her. My suggestion is a sister or daughter, but to remove speculation it's simpler to point out in trivia something along the lines of 'Although Aster is almost always beside her, Zinnia sometimes speaks about having lost Aster, suggesting that she may have named the Whismur after someone close to her who died prior to the events of the Game.' So it's based more factually than theoretically. All in all, i do agree that it is something noteworthy [[User:Azure42|Azure/ChromeVoid42]] ([[User talk:Azure42|talk]]) 20:08, 12 January 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I agree on making a separate page or at least a subsection for the original Aster and all info on her, especially since she has also been mentioned in the Adventures manga (complete with a vague picture). The current blurb about her definitely needs editing: from Zinnia's dialogue, it's impossible that the original Aster was her daughter ("''Ever since I was a little girl, I have always turned my eyes up to the sky.''" + "''... I used to watch the stars like this all the time... Together with Aster. We were always together.''" means they've been watching the stars together since they were little and Aster must have been the same age or older than Zinnia).<br />
[[User:Azalee|Azalee]] ([[User talk:Azalee|talk]]) 20:10, 26 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== B/W reference ==<br />
<br />
In Granite Cave, she mentions truths and ideals- is this a reference to Reshiram & Zekrom? It seems so, but publishing speculation is not acceptable. Would it be appropriate to link the B/W articles there, or am I making references in my head? <br />
[[User:Partone|Partone]] ([[User talk:Partone|talk]]) 08:54, 22 December 2014 (UTC)Partone<br />
<br />
<br />
This certainly is a direct reference to B/W, actually. [[User:-AuraGuardian-|-AuraGuardian-]] ([[User talk:-AuraGuardian-|talk]]) 06:34, 2 January 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Zinnia's Grandmother ==<br />
<br />
Can we get a page on this ASAP? She does play a pretty heavy part in the Delta episode, by giving vital information, and she's related to the last Lorekeeper, Zinnia, while also happening to be both a Move Tutor and the only and last tutor to re-teach Rayquaza Dragon Ascent, which is pretty important, as it's needed for Ray to ME. Additionally, she is one of the remaining Draconids, so she needs a page. (Was looking for certain quotes said in-game for the DE that only come from this character, so when I couldn't find it, I was disappointed.) [[User:-AuraGuardian-|-AuraGuardian-]] ([[User talk:-AuraGuardian-|talk]]) 06:32, 2 January 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Parallel Hoenn ==<br />
<br />
I find it strange that something Zinnia mentioned as profound as "A Hoenn region that's almost exactly like this one we live in" is never really explored in the article. The only time it is mentioned is in the direct quote from her. It's a very strange thing for her to bring up, and has some far-reaching implications. As is linked in the article, it may indeed be a reference to the original Ruby and Sapphire versions, and in this case it is the first time (as far as I know) that a character seems aware of the remake versions being distinct in some way from the originals. It would also imply that OR/AS aren't meant to be simply remakes of R/S, but also that they take place in a parallel but equally valid universe. This raises questions of not only when the games take place relative to each others' timelines, but in what universe? What is different about the Kalos region in the old universe, if the great war never happened, and the ultimate weapon never constructed? Does this not deserve further investigation? Though, I'm afraid all we can do right now is speculate. [[User:MofoMan2000|MofoMan2000]] ([[User talk:MofoMan2000|talk]]) 05:40, 18 March 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I guess there are some blurbs about it in other articles, but usually only a short sentence. I'm more concerned with this article as it is now. [[User:MofoMan2000|MofoMan2000]] ([[User talk:MofoMan2000|talk]]) 06:01, 18 March 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Zinnia's...not grandmother ==<br />
<br />
In the English script, Zinnia calls the old Draconid woman in [[Meteor Falls]] "Grannie", but in the Japanese script, she calls her ババさま, which is much more likely to be a respectful address for an old woman than a way of calling one's own grandmother. It's harder to argue, but in English, "Grannie" really doesn't ''have'' to refer to one's own grandmother either. I think we should remove the claims that that old woman is Zinnia's grandmother.<br />
<br />
This seems like it could easily attract argument, so I wanted to check here first if anyone else has any thoughts on the matter? [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 08:11, 5 November 2015 (UTC)<br />
:If there's not enough info to confirm a closer relation between them, I agree that simply mentioning her as "[the] old Draconid woman" is enough. [[User:SatoMew2|SatoMew2]] ([[User talk:SatoMew2|talk]]) 14:08, 5 November 2015 (UTC)</div>Azaleehttps://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Zinnia&diff=2371886Talk:Zinnia2015-12-26T20:10:23Z<p>Azalee: /* Aster's namesake */</p>
<hr />
<div>==Aster's namesake==<br />
<br />
In the climax of the Delta Episode, right before Rayquaza is summoned, Zinnia describes how Aster is named after someone dear to her who passed away. In the Magma/Aqua Hideout she describes Aster (the Whismur) as her "daughter", and the revelation at Sky Pillar makes it slightly unclear whether, when she speaks to Aster at various points in the game, she's addressing the actual Pokémon or Aster's namesake.<br />
<br />
I don't want to add anything too speculative since the scene is extremely ambiguous, but I do think that some of the explicit facts about Aster (namely, that she's named after a deceased character) deserve to be mentioned on the page outside of the quotes themselves. Arguably Aster might even deserve a section on the page, the same way [AZ]'s Floette does. —[[User:AndyPKMN|Andy<sup>P</sup><sub>K</sub><sup>M</sup><sub>N</sub>]] [[User talk:AndyPKMN|(talk)]] 01:41, 13 December 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:i think it should be a trivia thing; considering that Zinnia said that she 'lost her' it's evident that she's speaking of Aster's namesake since Aster is directly next to her. My suggestion is a sister or daughter, but to remove speculation it's simpler to point out in trivia something along the lines of 'Although Aster is almost always beside her, Zinnia sometimes speaks about having lost Aster, suggesting that she may have named the Whismur after someone close to her who died prior to the events of the Game.' So it's based more factually than theoretically. All in all, i do agree that it is something noteworthy [[User:Azure42|Azure/ChromeVoid42]] ([[User talk:Azure42|talk]]) 20:08, 12 January 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I agree on making a separate page or at least a subsection for the original Aster and all info on her, especially since she has also been mentioned in the Adventures manga (complete with a vague picture). The current blurb about her definitely needs editing: from Zinnia's dialogue, it's impossible that the original Aster was her daughter (<br />
"''Ever since I was a little girl, I have always turned my eyes up to the sky.''" + "''... I used to watch the stars like this all the time... Together with Aster. We were always together.''" means they've been watching the stars together since they were little and Aster must have been the same age or older than Zinnia).<br />
[[User:Azalee|Azalee]] ([[User talk:Azalee|talk]]) 20:10, 26 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== B/W reference ==<br />
<br />
In Granite Cave, she mentions truths and ideals- is this a reference to Reshiram & Zekrom? It seems so, but publishing speculation is not acceptable. Would it be appropriate to link the B/W articles there, or am I making references in my head? <br />
[[User:Partone|Partone]] ([[User talk:Partone|talk]]) 08:54, 22 December 2014 (UTC)Partone<br />
<br />
<br />
This certainly is a direct reference to B/W, actually. [[User:-AuraGuardian-|-AuraGuardian-]] ([[User talk:-AuraGuardian-|talk]]) 06:34, 2 January 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Zinnia's Grandmother ==<br />
<br />
Can we get a page on this ASAP? She does play a pretty heavy part in the Delta episode, by giving vital information, and she's related to the last Lorekeeper, Zinnia, while also happening to be both a Move Tutor and the only and last tutor to re-teach Rayquaza Dragon Ascent, which is pretty important, as it's needed for Ray to ME. Additionally, she is one of the remaining Draconids, so she needs a page. (Was looking for certain quotes said in-game for the DE that only come from this character, so when I couldn't find it, I was disappointed.) [[User:-AuraGuardian-|-AuraGuardian-]] ([[User talk:-AuraGuardian-|talk]]) 06:32, 2 January 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Parallel Hoenn ==<br />
<br />
I find it strange that something Zinnia mentioned as profound as "A Hoenn region that's almost exactly like this one we live in" is never really explored in the article. The only time it is mentioned is in the direct quote from her. It's a very strange thing for her to bring up, and has some far-reaching implications. As is linked in the article, it may indeed be a reference to the original Ruby and Sapphire versions, and in this case it is the first time (as far as I know) that a character seems aware of the remake versions being distinct in some way from the originals. It would also imply that OR/AS aren't meant to be simply remakes of R/S, but also that they take place in a parallel but equally valid universe. This raises questions of not only when the games take place relative to each others' timelines, but in what universe? What is different about the Kalos region in the old universe, if the great war never happened, and the ultimate weapon never constructed? Does this not deserve further investigation? Though, I'm afraid all we can do right now is speculate. [[User:MofoMan2000|MofoMan2000]] ([[User talk:MofoMan2000|talk]]) 05:40, 18 March 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I guess there are some blurbs about it in other articles, but usually only a short sentence. I'm more concerned with this article as it is now. [[User:MofoMan2000|MofoMan2000]] ([[User talk:MofoMan2000|talk]]) 06:01, 18 March 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Zinnia's...not grandmother ==<br />
<br />
In the English script, Zinnia calls the old Draconid woman in [[Meteor Falls]] "Grannie", but in the Japanese script, she calls her ババさま, which is much more likely to be a respectful address for an old woman than a way of calling one's own grandmother. It's harder to argue, but in English, "Grannie" really doesn't ''have'' to refer to one's own grandmother either. I think we should remove the claims that that old woman is Zinnia's grandmother.<br />
<br />
This seems like it could easily attract argument, so I wanted to check here first if anyone else has any thoughts on the matter? [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 08:11, 5 November 2015 (UTC)<br />
:If there's not enough info to confirm a closer relation between them, I agree that simply mentioning her as "[the] old Draconid woman" is enough. [[User:SatoMew2|SatoMew2]] ([[User talk:SatoMew2|talk]]) 14:08, 5 November 2015 (UTC)</div>Azaleehttps://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Rin&diff=2278365Rin2015-05-03T20:04:58Z<p>Azalee: </p>
<hr />
<div>'''Rin''' ('''リン''' or '''リーン''') has several referrals:<br />
*For the character from ''[[M08|Lucario and the Mystery of Mew]]'', see '''[[Queen Rin]]'''<br />
*For the twin from ''[[Pokémon Gotta Catch 'Em All]]'', see '''[[Rin and Ran]]'''<br />
*For the character from ''[[M03|Spell of the Unown: Entei]]'' whose Japanese name is ''Rin'', see '''[[Lisa (movie)]]'''<br />
<br><br />
{{disambig}}</div>Azaleehttps://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Bonnie&diff=2272479Bonnie2015-04-18T22:05:57Z<p>Azalee: /* Names */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{CharInfobox|<br />
color={{fairy color}} |<br />
corecolor={{fairy color light}} |<br />
bordercolor={{fairy color dark}} |<br />
name=Bonnie |<br />
jname=ユリーカ |<br />
tmname=Eureka |<br />
slogan=no |<br />
image=XY Prerelease Bonnie and Clemont.png |<br />
size=270px |<br />
caption=Bonnie in X and Y |<br />
age=no |<br />
years= |<br />
colors=yes|<br />
eyes=Blue|<br />
hair=Blonde|<br />
gender=Female |<br />
hometown=[[Lumiose City]] |<br />
region=[[Kalos]] |<br />
relatives=[[Clemont]] (brother)|<br />
trainer=no |<br />
game=yes |<br />
generation={{gen|VI}} |<br />
games={{pkmn|X and Y}} |<br />
leader=no |<br />
team=no |<br />
brain=no |<br />
anime=counterpart |<br />
animecounterpart={{an|Bonnie}} |<br />
epnum=XY001|<br />
epname=Kalos, Where Dreams and Adventures Begin!|<br />
}}<br />
'''Bonnie''' (Japanese: '''ユリーカ''' ''Eureka'') is a young girl introduced in [[Pokémon X and Y]]. She is the younger sister of [[Clemont]].<br />
<br />
==In the games==<br />
Bonnie is present as an unwavering companion and supporter for her brother during his Gym battle with the player character. During the player's challenge of the Gym, she runs the quiz that the player must solve in order to challenge Clemont.<br />
<br />
After defeating the {{pkmn|Champion}}, Bonnie can be found on the first floor of [[Lumiose Gym|Prism Tower]]. If talked to with a Pokémon with max [[Pokémon-Amie|Affection]] in front of the party, she will award the player with a {{DL|List of Ribbons in the games|Best Friends Ribbon}}.<br />
<br />
===Quotes===<br />
===={{g|X and Y}}====<br />
'''[[Lumiose City]]'''<br />
:''"Aren't you done yet?"''<br />
:''"Oh, [[Shauna]]! And you are...a challenger? Sorry, but could you wait a moment? C'mon, [[Clemont]]!"''<br />
:''"Yeah. Right. Whatever. There are challengers waiting for you, you know. Prism Tower itself is Lumiose City's Pokémon [[Gym]]!"''<br />
<br />
'''[[Lumiose Gym]]'''<br />
* Before defeating Clemont<br />
:''"This is the [[Gym Leader]] of Lumiose City, Clemont! You'd better watch out! My brother's strong! As strong as you'd expect a Lumiose City Gym Leader to be, got it?"''<br />
:''"I know, I know! Anyway, I hope you two have an awesome battle!"''<br />
<br />
* After defeating Clemont<br />
:''"M-my brother... You lost?"''<br />
:''"Oh, I know! I know this one! It's [[TM24]]! That's {{m|Thunderbolt}}! It has a power of 90 and its accuracy is 100 percent! It'll never miss! It's a really popular {{t|Electric}} move because of that!"''<br />
<br />
* If talked to afterwards<br />
:''"You sure are an amazing Pokémon Trainer, {{tt|mister|If the player is a boy}}/{{tt|miss|If the player is a girl}}. I hope you'll help my geeky bro learn a bit!"''<br />
<br />
* After defeating the {{pkmn|Champion}}<br />
:''"Oh, you and <Pokémon> are..."<br />
:(Pokémon with no or one Affection heart)<br />
::''"Sort of friends, perhaps? Am I right?"''<br />
:(Pokémon with two hearts)<br />
::''"Becoming good friends! I can tell!"''<br />
:(Pokémon with three hearts)<br />
::''"Pretty good friends! Can I pet it?"''<br />
:(Pokémon with four hearts)<br />
::''"Really good friends! I want to play with it!"''<br />
:(Pokémon with max Affection)<br />
::''"Really, really good friends! I want to give it Poké Puffs and play with it!'' (receive Ribbon) ''Please cherish your friendship forever and ever!"''<br />
:(Pokémon with max Affection after receiving Ribbon)<br />
::''"Really, really good friends! I can tell you've poured your love into it so much! How wonderful!"''<br />
<br />
==In the anime==<br />
[[File:Bonnie anime.png|thumb|250px|right|Bonnie in the anime]]<br />
{{main|Bonnie (anime)}}<br />
Bonnie appears in the {{series|XY}} as a companion for Ash alongside {{an|Serena}} and her brother {{an|Clemont}}. She and Clemont first met Ash in ''[[XY001|Kalos, Where Dreams and Adventures Begin!]]'' and began traveling with him in ''[[XY003|A Battle of Aerial Mobility!]]''.<br />
<br />
==In the manga==<br />
===In the Pokémon Adventures manga===<br />
[[File:Bonnie Adventures.png|thumb|left|130px|Bonnie in Pokémon Adventures]]<br />
Bonnie is first seen arriving at the aftermath of a battle between {{adv|X}} and a member of [[Team Flare]] inside of the Prism Tower. To her surprise, Bonnie notices that one of the {{p|Electrike|Pokémon}} that kept the tower active during a blackout had gone missing. She then goes off to inform Clemont about what happened.<br />
<br />
====At Prism Tower====<br />
{{TrainerPoké<br />
|trainer=Bonnie<br />
|pkmn=Electric-type Pokémon<br />
|type1=Electric<br />
|img=Prism Tower Pokémon Adventures.png<br />
|epnum=PAXY10<br />
|epname=<br />
|desc=These Electric Pokémon were used to Power the Prism Tower during a blackout. Among the Pokémon there are multiple {{p|Pikachu}}, {{p|Voltorb}}, {{p|Electrike}}, {{p|Emolga}}, {{p|Mareep}}, {{p|Stunfisk}}, {{p|Pichu}}, {{p|Magnemite}} and {{p|Pachirisu}}.<br />
<br />
None of their moves are known.}}<br />
<br />
====Escaped====<br />
{{TrainerPoké<br />
|trainer=Bonnie<br />
|pkmn=Electrike<br />
|type1=Electric<br />
|img=X Elec Electrike.png<br />
|epnum=PAXY11<br />
|epname=<br />
|desc=This Electrike escaped the Prism Tower after X defeated the Lumiose Press editor-in-chief. It decided to follow X after it had been impressed by his skills.<br />
<br />
None of Electrike's moves are known.}}<br />
{{-}}<br />
<br />
==Names==<br />
{| class="roundy" style="background: #{{fairy color light}}; border: 3px solid #{{fairy color}}"<br />
|- <br />
! style="{{roundytl|5px}}" | Language<br />
! Name<br />
! style="{{roundytr|5px}}" | Origin<br />
|- style="background:#FFF;"<br />
|Japanese<br />
|ユリーカ ''Eureka''<br />
|From ''{{wp|Lemon#Varieties|Eureka lemon}}''<br />
|- style="background:#FFF;"<br />
|English<br />
|Bonnie<br />
|From ''{{wp|Lemon#Varieties|Bonnie Brae}}'', a variety of lemon<br />
|- style="background:#FFF;"<br />
|French, Italian,<br>Spanish<br />
|Clem<br />
|From ''{{wp|Clementine}}'', a hybrid citrus fruit, and similar to her brother's name<br />
|- style="background:#FFF;"<br />
|German<br />
|Heureka<br />
|From her Japanese name<br />
|- style="background:#FFF;"<br />
|Korean<br />
|유리카 ''{{tt|Eureka|Yurika}}''<br />
|From her Japanese name<br />
|- style="background:#FFF;"<br />
|Chinese ({{tt|Mandarin|Taiwan}})<br />
|柚麗嘉 ''Yòulìjiā ''<br />
|Transliteration of her Japanese name. Contains 柚 ''yòu'', ({{wp|pomelo}}).<br />
|- style="background:#FFF;"<br />
|Chinese ({{tt|Cantonese|Hong Kong}})<br />
|柚麗嘉 ''Yáulaihgā''<br />
|Mandarin-based transliteration of her Japanese name. Contains 柚 ''yáu'', (pomelo).<br />
|}<br />
{{-}}<br />
<br />
{{-}}<br />
{{NPC|fairy|kalos=yes}}<br />
{{-}}<br />
{{Project CharacterDex notice}}<br />
<br />
[[Category:X and Y characters]]<br />
<br />
[[de:Heureka]]<br />
[[fr:Clem (jeux vidéo)]]<br />
[[it:Clem]]<br />
[[ja:ユリーカ]]<br />
[[zh:柚丽嘉]]</div>Azaleehttps://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Bonnie&diff=2272478Bonnie2015-04-18T22:05:22Z<p>Azalee: /* Names */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{CharInfobox|<br />
color={{fairy color}} |<br />
corecolor={{fairy color light}} |<br />
bordercolor={{fairy color dark}} |<br />
name=Bonnie |<br />
jname=ユリーカ |<br />
tmname=Eureka |<br />
slogan=no |<br />
image=XY Prerelease Bonnie and Clemont.png |<br />
size=270px |<br />
caption=Bonnie in X and Y |<br />
age=no |<br />
years= |<br />
colors=yes|<br />
eyes=Blue|<br />
hair=Blonde|<br />
gender=Female |<br />
hometown=[[Lumiose City]] |<br />
region=[[Kalos]] |<br />
relatives=[[Clemont]] (brother)|<br />
trainer=no |<br />
game=yes |<br />
generation={{gen|VI}} |<br />
games={{pkmn|X and Y}} |<br />
leader=no |<br />
team=no |<br />
brain=no |<br />
anime=counterpart |<br />
animecounterpart={{an|Bonnie}} |<br />
epnum=XY001|<br />
epname=Kalos, Where Dreams and Adventures Begin!|<br />
}}<br />
'''Bonnie''' (Japanese: '''ユリーカ''' ''Eureka'') is a young girl introduced in [[Pokémon X and Y]]. She is the younger sister of [[Clemont]].<br />
<br />
==In the games==<br />
Bonnie is present as an unwavering companion and supporter for her brother during his Gym battle with the player character. During the player's challenge of the Gym, she runs the quiz that the player must solve in order to challenge Clemont.<br />
<br />
After defeating the {{pkmn|Champion}}, Bonnie can be found on the first floor of [[Lumiose Gym|Prism Tower]]. If talked to with a Pokémon with max [[Pokémon-Amie|Affection]] in front of the party, she will award the player with a {{DL|List of Ribbons in the games|Best Friends Ribbon}}.<br />
<br />
===Quotes===<br />
===={{g|X and Y}}====<br />
'''[[Lumiose City]]'''<br />
:''"Aren't you done yet?"''<br />
:''"Oh, [[Shauna]]! And you are...a challenger? Sorry, but could you wait a moment? C'mon, [[Clemont]]!"''<br />
:''"Yeah. Right. Whatever. There are challengers waiting for you, you know. Prism Tower itself is Lumiose City's Pokémon [[Gym]]!"''<br />
<br />
'''[[Lumiose Gym]]'''<br />
* Before defeating Clemont<br />
:''"This is the [[Gym Leader]] of Lumiose City, Clemont! You'd better watch out! My brother's strong! As strong as you'd expect a Lumiose City Gym Leader to be, got it?"''<br />
:''"I know, I know! Anyway, I hope you two have an awesome battle!"''<br />
<br />
* After defeating Clemont<br />
:''"M-my brother... You lost?"''<br />
:''"Oh, I know! I know this one! It's [[TM24]]! That's {{m|Thunderbolt}}! It has a power of 90 and its accuracy is 100 percent! It'll never miss! It's a really popular {{t|Electric}} move because of that!"''<br />
<br />
* If talked to afterwards<br />
:''"You sure are an amazing Pokémon Trainer, {{tt|mister|If the player is a boy}}/{{tt|miss|If the player is a girl}}. I hope you'll help my geeky bro learn a bit!"''<br />
<br />
* After defeating the {{pkmn|Champion}}<br />
:''"Oh, you and <Pokémon> are..."<br />
:(Pokémon with no or one Affection heart)<br />
::''"Sort of friends, perhaps? Am I right?"''<br />
:(Pokémon with two hearts)<br />
::''"Becoming good friends! I can tell!"''<br />
:(Pokémon with three hearts)<br />
::''"Pretty good friends! Can I pet it?"''<br />
:(Pokémon with four hearts)<br />
::''"Really good friends! I want to play with it!"''<br />
:(Pokémon with max Affection)<br />
::''"Really, really good friends! I want to give it Poké Puffs and play with it!'' (receive Ribbon) ''Please cherish your friendship forever and ever!"''<br />
:(Pokémon with max Affection after receiving Ribbon)<br />
::''"Really, really good friends! I can tell you've poured your love into it so much! How wonderful!"''<br />
<br />
==In the anime==<br />
[[File:Bonnie anime.png|thumb|250px|right|Bonnie in the anime]]<br />
{{main|Bonnie (anime)}}<br />
Bonnie appears in the {{series|XY}} as a companion for Ash alongside {{an|Serena}} and her brother {{an|Clemont}}. She and Clemont first met Ash in ''[[XY001|Kalos, Where Dreams and Adventures Begin!]]'' and began traveling with him in ''[[XY003|A Battle of Aerial Mobility!]]''.<br />
<br />
==In the manga==<br />
===In the Pokémon Adventures manga===<br />
[[File:Bonnie Adventures.png|thumb|left|130px|Bonnie in Pokémon Adventures]]<br />
Bonnie is first seen arriving at the aftermath of a battle between {{adv|X}} and a member of [[Team Flare]] inside of the Prism Tower. To her surprise, Bonnie notices that one of the {{p|Electrike|Pokémon}} that kept the tower active during a blackout had gone missing. She then goes off to inform Clemont about what happened.<br />
<br />
====At Prism Tower====<br />
{{TrainerPoké<br />
|trainer=Bonnie<br />
|pkmn=Electric-type Pokémon<br />
|type1=Electric<br />
|img=Prism Tower Pokémon Adventures.png<br />
|epnum=PAXY10<br />
|epname=<br />
|desc=These Electric Pokémon were used to Power the Prism Tower during a blackout. Among the Pokémon there are multiple {{p|Pikachu}}, {{p|Voltorb}}, {{p|Electrike}}, {{p|Emolga}}, {{p|Mareep}}, {{p|Stunfisk}}, {{p|Pichu}}, {{p|Magnemite}} and {{p|Pachirisu}}.<br />
<br />
None of their moves are known.}}<br />
<br />
====Escaped====<br />
{{TrainerPoké<br />
|trainer=Bonnie<br />
|pkmn=Electrike<br />
|type1=Electric<br />
|img=X Elec Electrike.png<br />
|epnum=PAXY11<br />
|epname=<br />
|desc=This Electrike escaped the Prism Tower after X defeated the Lumiose Press editor-in-chief. It decided to follow X after it had been impressed by his skills.<br />
<br />
None of Electrike's moves are known.}}<br />
{{-}}<br />
<br />
==Names==<br />
{| class="roundy" style="background: #{{fairy color light}}; border: 3px solid #{{fairy color}}"<br />
|- <br />
! style="{{roundytl|5px}}" | Language<br />
! Name<br />
! style="{{roundytr|5px}}" | Origin<br />
|- style="background:#FFF;"<br />
|Japanese<br />
|ユリーカ ''Eureka''<br />
|From ''{{wp|Lemon#Varieties|Eureka lemon}}''<br />
|- style="background:#FFF;"<br />
|English<br />
|Bonnie<br />
|From ''{{wp|Lemon#Varieties|Bonnie Brae}}'', a variety of lemon<br />
|- style="background:#FFF;"<br />
|French, Italian,<br>Spanish<br />
|Clem<br />
|From "{{wp|Clementine}}", a hybrid citrus fruit, and similar to her brother's name<br />
|- style="background:#FFF;"<br />
|German<br />
|Heureka<br />
|From her Japanese name<br />
|- style="background:#FFF;"<br />
|Korean<br />
|유리카 ''{{tt|Eureka|Yurika}}''<br />
|From her Japanese name<br />
|- style="background:#FFF;"<br />
|Chinese ({{tt|Mandarin|Taiwan}})<br />
|柚麗嘉 ''Yòulìjiā ''<br />
|Transliteration of her Japanese name. Contains 柚 ''yòu'', ({{wp|pomelo}}).<br />
|- style="background:#FFF;"<br />
|Chinese ({{tt|Cantonese|Hong Kong}})<br />
|柚麗嘉 ''Yáulaihgā''<br />
|Mandarin-based transliteration of her Japanese name. Contains 柚 ''yáu'', (pomelo).<br />
|}<br />
{{-}}<br />
<br />
{{-}}<br />
{{NPC|fairy|kalos=yes}}<br />
{{-}}<br />
{{Project CharacterDex notice}}<br />
<br />
[[Category:X and Y characters]]<br />
<br />
[[de:Heureka]]<br />
[[fr:Clem (jeux vidéo)]]<br />
[[it:Clem]]<br />
[[ja:ユリーカ]]<br />
[[zh:柚丽嘉]]</div>Azalee