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User:Shiningpikablu252/Remake Johto Dex Odds Predictions

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One question surrounding the recently announced Generation II remakes is what will be in the game's new Johto Pokédex? Quite obviously, we're not going to have all 493 Pokémon in it. In fact, given how some elements introduced in later games will probably make their way into the game, odds are the new Johto Pokédex will be smaller than the old one, since it's entirely possible you'll need the National Pokédex to go to the main meat of the game's other country. Therefore, it's impossible to accurately predict the new Johto Pokédex listing.

This listing is what I think are the odds each Pokémon in the original Johto Pokédex, as well as later-introduced additions to their evolution chain, have of making it into the new Johto Pokédex. Pokémon are listed in modified original Johto Pokédex order; the full extent of the modifications to the list are inclusions of Pokémon such as Azurill and Ambipom who have Pokémon from the first two generations in their evolution lines. Note that I cannot guarantee any of these odds will hold (i.e. a "Very High" could be surprisingly omitted, while a "Very Low" could find its way in). You might be surprised at some of the odds I give...

#001 - #051 Chikorita - Arbok

# Name Odds Reason for Reason against
001 152 Chikorita Guaranteed One of the starters in the original -
002 153 Bayleef Guaranteed Middle evolution of a native starter line -
003 154 Meganium Guaranteed Final evolution of a native starter line -
004 155 Cyndaquil Guaranteed One of the starters in the original -
005 156 Quilava Guaranteed Middle evolution of a native starter line -
006 157 Typhlosion Guaranteed Final evolution of a native starter line -
007 158 Totodile Guaranteed One of the starters in the original -
008 159 Croconaw Guaranteed Middle evolution of a native starter line -
009 160 Feraligatr Guaranteed Final evolution of a native starter line -
010 016 Pidgey High Appears in Johto in original; could be considered a daytime counterpart to Hoothoot Spearow could be considered a daytime counterpart to Hoothoot instead and appear in Pidgey's place
011 017 Pidgeotto High Appears in Johto in original; could be considered a daytime counterpart to Noctowl Fearow could be considered a daytime counterpart to Noctowl instead
012 018 Pidgeot High Final evolution of a common line Could be final evolution of a line relegated to Kanto only if Spearow is considered Hoothoot's daytime counterpart
013 021 Spearow High Appears in Johto in original; could be considered a daytime counterpart to Hoothoot Pidgey could be considered a daytime counterpart to Hoothoot instead and appear in Spearow's place
014 022 Fearow High Appears in Johto in original; could be considered a daytime counterpart to Noctowl Pidgeotto could be considered a daytime counterpart to Noctowl instead
015 163 Hoothoot Very High Johto's signature Normal/Flying Could be replacable by a 24/7 Normal/Flying
016 164 Noctowl Very High Johto's signature Normal/Flying Could be replacable by a 24/7 Normal/Flying
017 019 Rattata High Common in Johto Possibility of Sentret overrunning the country and relegating Rattata to Kanto only
018 020 Raticate High Easily obtained in Johto Furret's easier to obtain, possibility of being relegated to Kanto only in wild
019 161 Sentret High Johto's signature pure Normal Could be seen as replacable by Rattata
020 162 Furret High Johto's signature pure Normal Could be seen as replacable by Raticate
021 172 Pichu Medium Pre-evolution of series mascot, possibility of appearance in the Odd Egg should that Crystal element return Said series mascot relegated to Kanto in the original, no guarantee of the Odd Egg's return
022 025 Pikachu Medium Series mascot, could be worked into Johto wild Relegated to Kanto in the original, Route 2 could require National Pokédex to access
023 026 Raichu Medium Evolution of series mascot Said series mascot relegated to Kanto in the original
024 010 Caterpie High Highly wild in original Gold, appears in Bug-Catching Contest Could be overrun by Ledyba or Spinarak, the National Park could hold a different contest
025 011 Metapod High Middle evolution of common bug Middle evolution of common bug that could be relegated to Kanto only if the bug contest is eliminated
026 012 Butterfree High Final evolution of common bug Producers could see Ledian as superior
027 013 Weedle High Highly wild in original Silver, appears in Bug-Catching Contest Could be overrun by Ledyba or Spinarak, the National Park could hold a different contest
028 014 Kakuna High Middle evolution of common bug Middle evolution of common bug that could be relegated to Kanto only if the bug contest is eliminated
029 015 Beedrill High Final evolution of common bug Producers could see Ariados as superior
030 165 Ledyba High Johto's signature Bug/Flying Exclusive to Silver in original, role easily replacable by Butterfree
031 166 Ledian High Johto's signature Bug/Flying Exclusive to Silver in original, role easily replacable by Butterfree
032 167 Spinarak High Johto's signature Bug/Poison Exclusive to Gold in original, role easily replacable by Beedrill
033 168 Ariados High Johto's signature Bug/Poison Exclusive to Gold in original, role easily replacable by Beedrill
034 074 Geodude Very High Appeared in caves in all games to date Larvitar could suddenly become common and drive Geodude into being Kanto-only
035 075 Graveler Very High Appeared in caves in all games to date Pupitar could suddenly become common and drive Graveler into being Kanto-only
036 076 Golem Very High Final evolution of one to appear in all games to date Requires a link-trade evolution, another Rock-type could fill role of final evolution of common cave Rock
037 041 Zubat Very High Appeared in caves in all games to date Murkrow could suddenly become Johto's signature cave dweller
038 042 Golbat Very High Appeared in caves in all games to date Murkrow could suddenly become Johto's signature cave dweller
039 169 Crobat Very High Friendship final evolution of common cave Pokémon Dusk Stones could be common in Johto to support a possible Murkrow invasion
040 173 Cleffa Low Possibility of appearance in the Odd Egg should that Crystal element return Pre-evolved form of Pokémon that appeared only at Mt. Moon in original, no guarantee of the Odd Egg's return
041 035 Clefairy Low Evolves from possible Odd Egg Pokémon Mt. Moon could require the National Pokédex to access
042 036 Clefable Low Final form of possible Odd Egg Pokémon Final form of Pokémon whose signature area may require the National Pokédex to reach
043 174 Igglybuff High Possibility of appearance in the Odd Egg should that Crystal element return Evolved form could be easily moved from Route 46, no guarantee of the Odd Egg's return
044 039 Jigglypuff High Appears on Route 46 in original Could be replaced on Route 46, relegating Jigglypuff to Kanto only
045 040 Wigglytuff High Pre-evolved form easily obtainable early on in original Pre-evolved form could be easily relegated to Kanto only
046 175 Togepi Very High The Mystery Egg hatches into this The Mystery Egg could be changed to hold something else to stave off rumors of Misty's return in the anime
047 176 Togetic Very High Pre-evolution nearly guaranteed to be in The Mystery Egg could be changed to hold something else to stave off rumors of Misty's return in the anime
--- 468 Togekiss Very High Final evolution of original's signature egg Signature egg could be changed to quell rumors that Misty might get her own Togetic back and evolve it
048 027 Sandshrew High Little chance of a Johto counterpart showing up in its locations Trapinch from Hoenn could be brought in as a surprise
049 028 Sandslash High Little chance of a Johto counterpart showing up in its locations Vibrava from Hoenn could be brought in as a surprise
050 023 Ekans High Little chance of being surprisingly supplanted by Seviper Zangoose could surprisingly show up
051 024 Arbok High Little chance of being surprisingly supplanted by Seviper Zangoose could surprisingly show up

#052 - #101 Dunsparce - Yanma

# Name Odds Reason for Reason against
052 206 Dunsparce Medium Rare Swarmable in original Remake could include Sevii Islands and make Kin Island's port Dunsparce's only location
053 179 Mareep High Very few Electric-type options within Johto Could possibly be supplanted by Pichu and moved to Kanto's Power Plant
054 180 Flaaffy High Very few Electric-type options within Johto Could possibly be supplanted by Pikachu and moved to Kanto's Power Plant
055 181 Ampharos High Seen by many as the best Electric-type option before Kanto in the originals Pikachu could be made common in Johto in a remake and relegate Ampharos's pre-evolutions to the Power Plant
056 194 Wooper High Populates many waters in Johto, making it very difficult to relegate to being Kanto-only Producers could relegate Wooper to National Pokédex-required areas to demonstrate Shellos's capabilities
057 195 Quagsire High Populates many waters in Johto, making it very difficult to relegate to being Kanto-only Producers could relegate Quagsire to National Pokédex-required areas to demonstrate Gastrodon's capabilities
058 092 Gastly High Common sight in standing Johto towers at night in original Misdreavus could be moved into Gastly's role in a remake
059 093 Haunter High Evolves from easy-to-find ghost Misdreavus and Dusk Stones could be easy to find in a remake and supplant Haunter's role
060 094 Gengar High Final evolution of common ghost Producers could make Mismagius the easy-to-obtain ghost of Johto
061 201 Unown Very High Signature area in original was in Johto Ruins of Alph could be given no meaning (or a very different meaning) in a remake if the Tanoby Chambers are included
062 095 Onix High Easily appearable in some Johto caves in original, as well as availability in an in-game trade Could be relegated to its signature location in a remake, and its signature location could require the National Pokédex; in-game trade could be changed in a remake
063 208 Steelix High Pre-evolution does appear in some Johto caves and through in-game trade Pre-evolution could be relegated to Rock Tunnel in a remake
064 069 Bellsprout High Easy early-game Pokémon Could be swarmed over by Oddish in a remake
065 070 Weepinbell High Easily obtainable early Could be swarmed over by Gloom in a remake
066 071 Victreebel High Final evolution of easy-to-find early-game Pokémon Role could be given to Vileplume and Bellossom in a remake
067 187 Hoppip High Appear in an area early in the game, albeit more common in the third to the originals Could be made more common in Kanto and overrun out of Johto
068 188 Skiploom High Easy to raise, provided one knows methods to get it up to level 10 Could be made more common in Kanto and overrun out of Johto
069 189 Jumpluff High Final evolution of one found easily early in the game Final evolution of one easily overrun out of Johto
070 046 Paras High Easily findable in Ilex Forest Programmers could deem Ilex Forest unsuitable for Paras in a remake and relegate it to Mt. Moon
071 047 Parasect High Evolves from easy-to-find forest Pokémon Evolves from Pokémon that could be relegated to one Kanto cave
072 060 Poliwag High One of the common Pokémon inhabiting Johto waters, findable with the Old Rod in original Johto waters could be retooled in a remake, no guarantee the Old Rod would work the same way in a remake
073 061 Poliwhirl High One of the common Pokémon inhabiting Johto waters Johto waters could be retooled in a remake
074 062 Poliwrath High One final evolution of common Pokémon findable in Johto waters Johto waters could be retooled in a remake
075 186 Politoed High One final evolution of common Pokémon findable in Johto waters Johto waters could be retooled in a remake
076 129 Magikarp Very High It's a pathetic fish findable in nearly every body of water to date Feebas could boom population in Johto and force Magikarp to Kanto waters only
077 130 Gyarados Very High Pre-evolution is easy to find, alternate-color Gyarados is a story event in original The story of the Lake of Rage could be changed to involve Milotic instead
078 118 Goldeen Very High One of the common Pokémon inhabiting Johto waters, findable with the Old Rod in original Johto waters could be retooled in a remake, no guarantee the Old Rod would work the same way in a remake
079 119 Seaking Very High One of the common Pokémon inhabiting Johto waters Johto waters could be retooled in a remake
080 079 Slowpoke Very High It's got a location in Johto named after it, for crying out loud! Then again, a new legend could describe all the wild Slowpoke fleeing long ago in a remake, leaving Team Rocket to import Slowpoke for their scam...
081 080 Slowbro Very High Has a spot in the location named for its pre-evolution They could write a new legend writing Slowbro out of the well
082 199 Slowking Very High Alternate final evolution of a Pokémon with a location namesake They could write a new legend writing Slowpoke out of the well
083 043 Oddish Very High Common sight in dark forests Could possibly seen as replacable by Bellsprout
084 044 Gloom Very High Common sight in some dark areas Could possibly seen as replacable by Weepinbell
085 045 Vileplume Very High One final evolution of a common sight Could possibly seen as replacable by Victreebel
086 182 Bellossom Very High One final evolution of a common sight Could possibly seen as replacable by Victreebel
087 096 Drowzee High Appears easily near Goldenrod in original Natu could be seen as one that could take its place
088 097 Hypno High Evolves from one findable near Goldenrod Xatu could be seen as one that could take its place
089 063 Abra Very High Frustrating behavior has appeared in every Pokédex thus far Ralts might possibly show up and run Abra out of Johto
090 064 Kadabra Very High Evolves from a common-to-find Pokémon Could be replacable by easier-to-catch Kirlia
091 065 Alakazam Very High Final evolution of common-to-find Pokémon Link-trade evolutions could be easily relegated to Kanto only, programmers could have Gardevoir take its place
092 132 Ditto High Easily findable near Goldenrod in original Could be moved to a different location in a remake, one that might require the National Pokédex
093 204 Pineco High Rare sight by headbutting Johto trees in original Headbutting mechanic might not return for remake, and they might not be as easily found
094 205 Forretress High Evolution of headbutt-into-tree Pokémon Evolution of Pokémon found primarily in mechanic that might not return
095 029 Nidoran♀ High Family set up shop north of Goldenrod in original Producers could have a twisted idea that relegates one or both Nidoran clans to Kanto only in a remake
096 030 Nidorina High Easily evolvable from a Pokémon near Goldenrod in original Producers could have a twisted idea that relegates one or both Nidoran clans to Kanto only in a remake
097 031 Nidoqueen High Easily evolvable from a Pokémon near Goldenrod in original Producers could have a twisted idea that relegates one or both Nidoran clans to Kanto only in a remake
098 032 Nidoran♂ High Family set up shop north of Goldenrod in original Producers could have a twisted idea that relegates one or both Nidoran clans to Kanto only in a remake
099 033 Nidorino High Easily evolvable from a Pokémon near Goldenrod in original Producers could have a twisted idea that relegates one or both Nidoran clans to Kanto only in a remake
100 034 Nidoking High Easily evolvable from a Pokémon near Goldenrod in original Producers could have a twisted idea that relegates one or both Nidoran clans to Kanto only in a remake
101 193 Yanma High Rare swarmable in original Signature location could be changed to National Pokédex-required location
--- 469 Yanmega High Evolves easily from Pokémon found in a swarm Swarm might not return, pre-evolution could be relegated to Ruin Valley, no guarantee AncientPower would appear in Yanma's level-up movepool in a remake

#102 - #151 Sunkern - Magmar

# Name Odds Reason for Reason against
102 191 Sunkern High Easily catchable at the right time in the National Park in the original Also has a location in Kanto which the programmers could relegate all Sunkern to
103 192 Sunflora High Both Sunkern and Sun Stone are easily accessible in the National Park The remakes could just as easily pass off Bellossom as the Sun Stone's signature result
104 102 Exeggcute High Easily obtained by Headbutting in the original They could always reopen the Safari Zone in a remake, especially since Leaf Stones were Kanto-only outside Mystery Gift in the original
105 103 Exeggutor High Evolves from one easy to get via Headbutt The originals put its evolution item in Kanto only without the need of Mystery Gift. They could decide to make it more common closer to the Leaf Stones...
--- 438 Bonsly Very High Its evolution is a plot point in the original, meaning the Rock Incense could easily be placed in Johto No point including the Rock Incense in Johto in a remake if they switch the Sudowoodo on Route 36 for something else...
106 185 Sudowoodo Very High It blocks Route 36, for crying out loud! They could just as easily block Route 36 with a Snorlax instead...
--- 360 Wynaut High Lax Incense could easily be placed in the Dark Cave, what with Wobbuffet being there in the originals... Wobbuffet's got Shadow Tag, a factor in which the producers might relocate Wobbuffet to avoid its influence...
107 202 Wobbuffet High The most sought-after sight on the Blackthorn side of Dark Cave in the original The producers might not want Shadow Tag to be an influence prior to the Elite Four, and since the Elite Four was in west Kanto in the originals...
108 048 Venonat High Easily found at the Bug-Catching Contest in the original If the Bug-Catching Contest doesn't return in a remake, it's pretty easy to relegate to Kanto-only status...
109 049 Venomoth High Not that difficult to evolve a Venonat caught at the Bug-Catching Contest Of course, they might make it so you can't get Venonat in Johto in a remake
110 123 Scyther High One of two signature sights at the Bug-Catching Contest in the original They could always relegate Scyther to somewhere in Kanto and have the signature sights be bugs from a different generation...
111 212 Scizor High Sure, the Metal Coat was obtained aboard a boat in the originals, but if Scyther remains a signature bug contest fixture... Then again, the producers could decide to have the Metal Coat come before Scyther...
112 127 Pinsir High One of two signature sights at the Bug-Catching Contest in the original They could always relegate Pinsir to somewhere in Kanto and have the signature sights be bugs from a different generation...
113 214 Heracross High One of the Headbutt results in the original Headbutting might not make a return in a remake, easily making Heracross relegatable to Pattern Bush
114 109 Koffing High Found easily in Burned Tower in original They might add elements to the destroyed Cinnabar Island in a remake and move Koffing there...
115 110 Weezing High Evolves from easy Burned Tower find Of course, if Koffing gets moved to somewhere else, Weezing's bound to follow...
116 088 Grimer Low Only catchable in Kanto in originals They could always have Grimer in the Burned Tower instead of Koffing...
117 089 Muk Low Easily found within Kanto in originals...but only within Kanto Its pre-evolution could be given a Johto location in a remake
118 081 Magnemite Medium Easily findable on the path to Moomoo Farm in the original There's no Mt. Coronet in Johto (or Kanto, for that matter) and any suitable substitute to get its final evolution could require the National Pokédex to access
119 082 Magneton Medium One could obtain one easy by the time the Elite Four rolls around in original However, evolving it may pose problems that could cause its line to be omitted from Johto proper...
--- 462 Magnezone Medium Pre-evolutions are easily obtainable in originals However, obtaining this form might scare the producers out of including it in Johto proper in a remake...
120 100 Voltorb High Obtained in an in-game trade in the originals and through Rocket Hideout traps, could easily take Magnemite's place on the Moomoo Farm path due to evolution mechanic difficulties No guarantee the same trades will hold, and the traps could be rigged to switch Voltorb with another exploder in a remake
121 101 Electrode High Not that difficult if one dares take the trade or venture into the traps Of course, if neither the trade nor traps hold, we could be seeing this as Kanto-only...
122 190 Aipom High Easily found by Headbutt in original, Double Hit ain't that hard to obtain The Headbutt mechanic might not make a return...
--- 424 Ambipom High Headbutt, catch, teach Double Hit, it's magic! If they take away Headbutt, they might locate Aipom somewhere that needs the National Pokédex...
123 209 Snubbull High Rare in originals, but it did appear within Johto... Could be relegated to somewhere else if they don't have the old swarm methods return...
124 210 Granbull High Obtainable within Johto in originals, should one be lucky enough to catch its pre-evolution Its original locations might not hold in a remake...
125 037 Vulpix High Originals had it Silver-exclusive and findable within Johto in Silver They could always ditch the version-exclusivity, but also shift it to a location which would require the National Pokédex...
126 038 Ninetales High A prized version exclusive from the originals They might shift its pre-evolution to be closer to the Fire Stones...which are only in Kanto in the originals...
127 058 Growlithe High Originals had it Gold-exclusive and findable within Johto in Silver They could always ditch the version-exclusivity, but also shift it to a location which would require the National Pokédex...
128 059 Arcanine High A prized version exclusive from the originals They might shift its pre-evolution to be closer to the Fire Stones...which are only in Kanto in the originals...
129 234 Stantler High Worked its magic close to Ecruteak City in original Another Normal-type could take its place in a remake, relegating Stantler to somewhere a simple Johto Pokédex isn't enough to reach
--- 298 Azurill High Sea Incense's best location in a remake is Mt. Mortar if its evolution remains there No guarantee its evolution'll remain in Mt. Mortar or in Johto
130 183 Marill High Rare sight in originals, but it was in Johto's Mt. Mortar Could make it a bit more common, but exclusively in National Pokédex-required areas...
131 184 Azumarill High Not easy to get in originals, but obtainable prior to Elite Four in originals The Elite Four might have to be defeated in order to access the Marill...
132 050 Diglett Low Diamond and Pearl broke the Diglett's Cave stereotype, meaning they could be findable in places such as Union Cave in a remake It's got a signature location that might require the National Pokédex to access
133 051 Dugtrio Low Depths of Union Cave or upper reaches of Mt. Mortar might make a good fit Of course, it could always stay in Diglett's Cave and might need the National Pokédex to reach...
134 056 Mankey Medium Gold-exclusive in the originals and findable within Johto there Problem is, its Silver-version counterpart has Pickup, which might make it a bit more attractive to the producers to include in the remakes...
135 057 Primeape Medium Gold-exclusive in the originals and easily evolvable from one findable within Johto Pre-evolved form's Silver counterpart has Pickup, which could make this line Kanto-only in remakes, even if it's findable in both games of it
136 052 Meowth High Silver-exclusive in the originals and findable in Johto there, Pickup could make it common in both games of a remake The producers might have Teddiursa on Route 46 in remakes and have it be the attractive Pickupper
137 053 Persian High Silver-exclusive in the originals, and easily evolvable from potential signature Pickupper Of course, if Teddiursa becomes the signature Pickupper, that might give the producers more incentive to include Mankey/Primeape within Johto in both games of a remake...
138 054 Psyduck High Cluelessly swam ponds in the Ilex Forest in original They might give Psyduck the intelligence to recognize the Ilex Forest as having Grass-types that could easily harm it and relegate Psyduck to Kanto-only...
139 055 Golduck High One could easily nab a Psyduck in Ilex Forest and evolve it Then again, they could put Psyduck in Kanto only in a remake...
140 066 Machop High An in-game trade got you one in the originals, and also findable at Mt. Mortar there too... Then again, they could have Machop in Rock Tunnel only and require the National Pokédex to reach it, and the in-game trade could easily be Drowzee for Mime Jr....
141 067 Machoke High You could be raising one by the time you reach the Elite Four if Machop's in the right locations ...Which it might not be in a remake...
142 068 Machamp High Sure, it requires trading, but you can get Machoke within Johto in the originals, and obviously any trade restrictions are on the other guy's end by that point in time... ...unless they change the locations and impose National Pokédex-based trade restrictions...
143 236 Tyrogue High The Karate King gives you one in the originals Then again, the Karate King could just as easily train the Sevii Islands instead...
144 106 Hitmonlee High Beat the Karate King, have Attack overtake Defense, and you've got a Hitmonlee to take on Bruno's! Then again, if the Karate King doesn't show up anywhere that doesn't require the National Pokédex, and Bruno's team could change in a remake...
145 107 Hitmonchan High Beat the Karate King, have Defense overtake Attack, and you've got a Hitmonchan to take on Bruno's! Then again, if the Karate King doesn't show up anywhere that doesn't require the National Pokédex, and Bruno's team could change in a remake...
146 237 Hitmontop High Beat the Karate King, have Attack and Defense balance, and you've got a Hitmontop to take on Bruno's! (Of course, Bruno's could have Intimidate, but it doesn't affect the chances...) Then again, if the Karate King doesn't show up anywhere that doesn't require the National Pokédex, and Bruno's team could change in a remake...
147 203 Girafarig High It's en route to Lake of Rage in the original, and since that path had to be taken in the original... Then again, they could shift its location in a remake...
148 128 Tauros Very High Both it and its female counterpart appear close to Moomoo Farm in the original Then again, they could relegate them to a reopened Safari Zone and create a new backstory for the farm...
149 241 Miltank Very High Both it and its male counterpart appear close to Moomoo Farm in the original Then again, they could relegate them to a reopened Safari Zone and make it so that Moomoo Farm imports their Miltank in a remake...
150 240 Magby Medium They could always follow the original's lead and have its evolved form findable in Burned Tower They could always follow Crystal's lead and have its evolved form findable only in Silver Cave
151 126 Magmar Medium They could always follow the original's lead and have it findable in Burned Tower They could always follow Crystal's lead and have it findable only in Silver Cave
--- 467 Magmortar Medium They could put a free Magmarizer in the Burned Tower if Magmar appears there Then again, the free Magmarizer is just as easily put in Silver Cave if Magmar appears there instead...

#152 - #200 Smoochum - Dodrio

# Name Odds Reason for Reason against
152 238 Smoochum Medium Evolved form is easily findable in Ice Path in originals Evolution could be made National Pokédex-required in a remake by shifting its location...
153 124 Jynx Medium It and its black face are easily findable in the Ice Path in the originals Then again, they could always shuffle it and its black face into Icefall Cave in a remake...
154 239 Elekid Medium They could easily work it and/or its evolution into the Johto wild, what with Jynx and Magmar already there in the originals... Then again, they could just as easily relegate its counterparts into National Pokédex-required areas in a remake...
155 125 Electabuzz Medium They could easily work it and/or its pre-evolution into the Johto wild, what with Jynx and Magmar already there in the originals... Then again, they could just as easily relegate its counterparts into National Pokédex-required areas in a remake...
--- 466 Electivire Medium They'll probably put a free Electrizer wherever its pre-evolution may roam Its pre-evolution roams Route 10 in the originals, and that may hold in a remake
--- 439 Mime Jr. Medium If Sudowoodo stays put in a remake, odds are Mr. Mime'll have to show up in Johto somewhere... If Sudowoodo doesn't stay put in a remake, there's no reason it or Mr. Mime'll show up outside Kanto
156 122 Mr. Mime Medium The fact that it's Sudowoodo's counterpart increases the odds of it or pre-evolution being given Johto locations in remake The fact that it's Sudowoodo's counterpart could give the producers ideas of relegating Sudowoodo to be Kanto-only and not make Mr. Mime any more accessible earlier
157 235 Smeargle High The Ruins of Alph is where it roams in the originals The producers could easily find it another place for it to paint, making Natu the only one findable in the Ruins of Alph grasses...
158 083 Farfetch'd High Easily findable on the path to Moomoo Farm in the originals They could put it in a National Pokédex-required area in a remake
159 177 Natu High Once you make it to the Ruins of Alph grasses, it's common The Ruins of Alph grasses could just as easily yield only Smeargle in a remake
160 178 Xatu High Find one in the Ruins of Alph grasses, it can be obtained within Johto Then again, if Natu gets shifted away from the Ruins of Alph in a remake, there's no longer any gurantees...
161 211 Qwilfish High Only appears in one pond in original, and that one pond is on Route 32 They could just as easily make its only home Water Labyrinth in a remake
162 072 Tentacool Very High It's been in many water areas in every game to date They could relegate Tentacool to one National Pokédex-required pond in a remake in order to break the stereotype
163 073 Tentacruel Very High It's been in many water areas in every game to date They could relegate Tentacruel to one National Pokédex-required pond in a remake in order to break the stereotype
164 098 Krabby High Easily findable in Olivine City and similar areas in originals The producers could just as easily reincorporate Corphish into its place within Johto
165 099 Kingler High Pre-evolution is easy to fish up or smash out in originals The producers could just as easily reincorporate Crawdaunt into its place within Johto
166 213 Shuckle High Rock Smash got them out in the originals, and since the only smashable rock in Kanto didn't have any Pokémon in it... I've yet to get a single Pokémon by smashing rocks in Diamond/Pearl, and I've smashed a lot. They might have to have another method to get Shuckle, and it might require the National Pokédex...
167 120 Staryu High Needed better rods to get in original, but they were findable in Johto They could just as easily separate Staryu from Krabby and Corsola in the fishing setups
168 121 Starmie High Pre-evolution eeded better rods to get in original, but they were findable in Johto They could just as easily have Staryu be common closest to the Water Stones--Kanto only in the originals
169 090 Shellder High Easily findable in Olivine Harbor, and for all we know, Johto's Move Relearner might be a woman with a pearl fetish They could be made Kanto-only in a remake, and there's no guarantee its Pearls will have a use beyond selling...
170 091 Cloyster High If Shellder's there, odds are someone'll know how to get Cloyster within Johto, even if you can't They might move Shellder to be closer to the Water Stones, which were only in Kanto in the originals
171 222 Corsola High Daytime counterpart of Staryu in the originals Might remain such...even if it means following Staryu into relegation to National Pokédex-required areas
172 223 Remoraid High Appeared in a swarm in originals Not only could the swarm not be kept, but its location might not be either
173 224 Octillery High Evolves from Pokémon findable in swarm They could always move its pre-evolution to National Pokédex-required area...
174 170 Chinchou High Good Rod, waters in player's hometown have these Then again, they could reduce its appearance and trim away locations down to areas that require the National Pokédex
175 171 Lanturn High Evolves from easy Good Rod catch from domestic waters Pre-evolution could be relegated to waters outside the player's home country...
176 086 Seel High All over the Whirl Islands in the original Something else could be all over the Whirl Islands in a remake
177 087 Dewgong High One could potentially have one come Elite Four time if one works hard enough Then again, if a remake runs Seel out of the Whirl Islands...
178 108 Lickitung High Easily findable in the center island of Route 44 Just one location in the originals, could be easy to shift out of the country
--- 463 Lickilicky High Rollout ain't too difficult to attain Of course, if Lickitung doesn't appear on the Route 44 center island...
179 114 Tangela High Easily findable in the center island of Route 44 Just one domestic location in the originals, could be easy to shift out of the country
--- 465 Tangrowth High AncientPower ain't too difficult to attain Of course, if Tangela doesn't appear on the Route 44 center island...
180 133 Eevee Medium Come on, an Eeveelution maniac gives you one in the originals at a rather early point! Then again, there's no Moss Rock or Ice Rock in Johto (or Kanto for that matter), meaning Bill might not consider handing over Eevee until you get the National Pokédex...
181 134 Vaporeon Medium Even if you couldn't get one until Kanto in the originals (without workarounds), it's easily seeable through Kuni of the Kimono Girls... Then again, two Eeveelutions have evolution mechanics that might be tough to work into, forcing Eevee to require the National Pokédex, the Kimono Girls to be absent until later, and another method be found to obtain HM03 (Surf), not to mention that the "sight" method from Diamond/Pearl might not carry over to HG/SS...
182 135 Jolteon Medium Even if you couldn't get one until Kanto in the originals (without workarounds), it's easily seeable through Miki of the Kimono Girls... Then again, two Eeveelutions have evolution mechanics that might be tough to work into, forcing Eevee to require the National Pokédex, the Kimono Girls to be absent until later, and another method be found to obtain HM03 (Surf), not to mention that the "sight" method from Diamond/Pearl might not carry over to HG/SS...
183 136 Flareon Medium Even if you couldn't get one until Kanto in the originals (without workarounds), it's easily seeable through Naoko of the Kimono Girls... Then again, two Eeveelutions have evolution mechanics that might be tough to work into, forcing Eevee to require the National Pokédex, the Kimono Girls to be absent until later, and another method be found to obtain HM03 (Surf), not to mention that the "sight" method from Diamond/Pearl might not carry over to HG/SS...
184 196 Espeon Medium Even though you can only get one Eeveelution before the Elite Four without breeding, it's easily seeable through Sayo of the Kimono Girls... Then again, two Eeveelutions have evolution mechanics that might be tough to work into, forcing Eevee to require the National Pokédex, the Kimono Girls to be absent until later, and another method be found to obtain HM03 (Surf)...
185 197 Umbreon Medium Even though you can only get one Eeveelution before the Elite Four without breeding,it's easily seeable through Zuki of the Kimono Girls... Then again, two Eeveelutions have evolution mechanics that might be tough to work into, forcing Eevee to require the National Pokédex, the Kimono Girls to be absent until later, and another method be found to obtain HM03 (Surf)...
--- 470 Leafeon Medium ...They could always make the Kimono Girls a family of seven in a remake... Any equivalent to Moss Rock would probably require the National Pokédex to reach
--- 471 Glaceon Medium ...They could always make the Kimono Girls a family of seven in a remake... Any equivalent to Ice Rock would probably require the National Pokédex to reach
186 116 Horsea High One can be found easily in the Whirl Islands Then again, it could be shifted to its old Kanto waters in a remake...
187 117 Seadra High Easily evolves from specimens in the Whirl Islands Of course, if Horsea gets shifted...
188 230 Kingdra High Dragon Scale in the original appears in the rear of Mt. Mortar, making Kingdra pre-Elite Four easy Then again, Dragon Scale could be relocated if Horsea gets relocated out of the Whirl Islands...
189 207 Gligar High One can search for this Gold-exclusive on Route 45 in the originals Technically, anything with a wild-appearance location could possibly be relocated...
--- 472 Gliscor High Who wants to wager we'll see a Razor Fang near the Dratini pool on Route 45 in a remake? Granted, if the Gligar don't stick around, the Razor Fang is best left elsewhere...
190 225 Delibird High Anyone with Silver could tend to find them easily on the Ice Path Of course, there's a good cave in the Sevii Islands they could be relocated to...
191 220 Swinub High One of the most common entries in the Ice Path However, they might keep Swinub penned into Icefall Cave, which would probably require the National Pokédex...
192 221 Piloswine High We'll probably be seeing this on Pryce's team again... Then again, all gym teams are technically subject to changes in a remake...
--- 473 Mamoswine High Move Relearner. No matter what the cost, one can attain AncientPower. Of course, if Swinub gets penned into Icefall Cave, there's no real point to sweeping the Elite Four with one...
193 216 Teddiursa High Pickup could spur the developers to include this Gold-exclusive from the originals on Route 46 in both halves of a remake, and it appeared in Johto in the originals nonetheless Then again, Meowth or Phanpy might be seen as a more attractive option for the signature Pickupper...
194 217 Ursaring High Could be easily attractive options to both halves of a remake despite being Gold-exclusive in the original They might relegate it to areas that require the National Pokédex if Meowth or Phanpy is chosen as the signature Pickupper...
195 231 Phanpy High Pickup could spur the developers to include this Silver-exclusive from the originals on Route 46 in both halves of a remake, and it appeared in Johto in the originals nonetheless Then again, Meowth or Teddiursa might be seen as a more attractive option for the signature Pickupper...
196 232 Donphan High Could be easily attractive options to both halves of a remake despite being Silver-exclusive in the original They might relegate it to areas that require the National Pokédex if Meowth or Teddiursa is chosen as the signature Pickupper...
--- 458 Mantyke High Evolution appeared in rare waters in original Gold, Wave Incense could be attractive within the Whirl Islands If Mantine gets moved away from domestic waters, the Wave Incense probably will as well...
197 226 Mantine High Only one body of water in the original, and Gold-exclusive on top of that, but said body of water is domestic... Wanna bet it'll appear at Quest Island's Trainer Tower area in a remake, shifted there or not?
198 227 Skarmory High One can search for this Silver-exclusive on Route 45 in the originals Technically, anything with a wild-appearance location could possibly be relocated...
199 084 Doduo High Yes, it only appeared in Kanto in the original; however, anything on the road to the Elite Four probably won't require the National Pokédex to access They could just as easily reopen the Safari Zone or relegate Doduo to Route 22 in a remake...
200 085 Dodrio High On road to Elite Four, probably won't require National Pokédex despite being Kanto-only in original Then again, they could narrow its locations to inner Kanto...

#201 - #251 Ponyta - Celebi

# Name Odds Reason for Reason against
201 077 Ponyta High Appeared only in Kanto in original, but its range includes the road to the Elite Four, which probably won't require the National Pokédex Could be easily shifted away from Routes 26 and 27 in a remake
202 078 Rapidash High Pre-evolution findable on route to Elite Four in original No guarantee it's still going to be on the road to the Elite Four in a remake
203 104 Cubone Low It was available at the Goldenrod Game Corner in Crystal, they could use the Crystal list to expand the inventory (especially since the FireRed and LeafGreen vendors offered five at a time) Rock Tunnel only in original, no guarantee of a change in Game Corner listings
204 105 Marowak Low Evolution of possible Game Corner Pokémon Line could remain relegated to the Rock Tunnel in a remake
205 115 Kangaskhan Low ...They could expand its reach into Johto in a remake, Route 44 might make a good location Only appeared in Rock Tunnel in original, no guarantee it's not staying put
206 111 Rhyhorn High Sure, it only appeared in Kanto in original, but it appeared en route to the Elite Four, which I highly doubt would require the National Pokédex to reach in a remake ...They could always reopen the Safari Zone and move it there...
207 112 Rhydon High Pre-evolution probably one of the last new species one sees en route to Elite Four No guarantee the Safari Zone will remain closed and Rhyhorn moving back there
--- 464 Rhyperior High Protector's most likely position in remake is Victory Road if Rhyhorn remains there Protector's most likely position in remake is the Safari Zone if Rhyhorn gets shifted to a reopened facility
208 198 Murkrow Low ...There is that Murkrow in the Rocket Hideout in Mahogany, and it could be brought in from closer by in a remake... No guarantee Murkrow will be flocking to Johto
--- 430 Honchkrow Low They could make Dusk Stones more common No sense making Dusk Stones more common if both Murkrow and Misdreavus remain relegated to where they were in originals
209 228 Houndour Low They could make Vulpix and/or Growlithe daytime-only and let Houndour roam Johto at night Vulpix and/or Growlithe could continue roaming 24/7 and keep Houndour relegated to Kanto
210 229 Houndoom Low Pre-evolution could become a more common sight at night in Johto No guarantee Vulpix or Growlithe are going anywhere at night
211 218 Slugma Low Johto didn't have many Fire-types around in the original, and two such lines were version exclusives on top of that; producers could shift Slugma's location to ease a potential Fire squeeze Only appeared on Cycling Road in original, no guarantee Vulpix and Growlithe will be version-exclusive in remakes (Meowth sure as hell wasn't in FireRed and LeafGreen)
212 219 Magcargo Low It or its pre-evolution could be placed in an accessible area of Johto in a remake Pre-evolution only appeared on Cycling Road in original, there are other ways to alleviate potential Fire squeeze
213 215 Sneasel Medium It was shifted to the Ice Path in Crystal, a lead remakes might follow... Only appeared in the Silver Cave area and Route 28 in original, areas a remake might require the National Pokédex to access
--- 461 Weavile Medium If remakes follow Crystal's lead on its pre-evolution, a well-placed Razor Claw might do the trick... If remakes follow the original's lead on its pre-evolution, said Razor Claw might be in the Silver Cave along with said pre-evolution
214 200 Misdreavus Low Could become more common in Johto's caves Only cave it appeared in in original was the Silver Cave, and that requires going through Kanto to reach, meaning you might need the National Pokédex...
--- 429 Mismagius Low Dusk Stones could become common, making one fairly easy to obtain if Misdreavus appears earlier Pre-evolution requires going through Kanto to reach
215 137 Porygon Very Low Bill could find one of these instead of an Eevee in the storyline Winnable only at the Celadon Game Corner in originals, and that Game Corner might require the National Pokédex; odds are Bill ain't straying from Eevee anytime soon
216 233 Porygon2 Very Low ...What if the Goldenrod Game Corner were to stock Up-Grades? Not only is its pre-evolution only obtainable through coins in Kanto only, but its evolution item is also obtained in Kanto in the originals
--- 474 Porygon-Z Very Low ...What if the Goldenrod Game Corner were to stock Dubious Discs? Fully unevolved form only obtainable through coins in Kanto only, no guarantee the Dubious Disc will even appear in Johto
--- 440 Happiny Very Low They could bring back the Odd Egg from Crystal and expand it to include Pokémon such as Happiny... No guarantee of the Odd Egg's return, evolved form appeared only in Kanto in original and was rare even then
217 113 Chansey Very Low Evolution of possible Odd Egg Pokémon from appended list Only appeared in Kanto in original, and even then was rare; no guarantee of the Odd Egg's return
218 242 Blissey Very Low Final evolution of possible Odd Egg Pokémon from appended list Pre-evolved form only appeared in Kanto in original, and even then was rare; no guarantee of the Odd Egg's return
219 131 Lapras High Part of a timed event in a Johto cave They could make it so the timed event requires the National Pokédex to trigger
220 138 Omanyte Very Low Its fossil could be easily findable in the Underground There wasn't a way to resurrect fossils in the original, no guarantee the Underground will even appear in a remake
221 139 Omastar Very Low ...If the Underground appears and fossils can be resurrected in Johto, then it would be easy to obtain... No guarantee the Underground will even appear in a remake
222 140 Kabuto Very Low Its fossil could be easily findable in the Underground There wasn't a way to resurrect fossils in the original, no guarantee the Underground will even appear in a remake
223 141 Kabutops Very Low ...If the Underground appears and fossils can be resurrected in Johto, then it would be easy to obtain... No guarantee the Underground will even appear in a remake
224 142 Aerodactyl Very Low Its fossil could be easily findable in the Underground; possibility that Kanto may not require the National Pokédex opens possibility for in-game trade There wasn't a way to resurrect fossils in the original, no guarantee the Underground will even appear in a remake; odds are Kanto will require the National Pokédex, and even then there's no guarantee the in-game trade would return in a remake
--- 446 Munchlax Very Low Breeding result of a Pokémon that could be a replacement Route 36 roadblock Odds are Sudowoodo's keeping its title
225 143 Snorlax Very Low ...They could put it to block Route 36 in Sudowoodo's stead Odds are Sudowoodo's keeping its title, relegating Snorlax to block only one way in Kanto
226 001 Bulbasaur Very Low Prof. Oak might get a "bright idea" similar to Prof. Birch's in Emerald Signature starter of a country player will not start out in in a remake
227 002 Ivysaur Very Low Stranger things have happened... Second stage of signature starter of non-native country
228 003 Venusaur Very Low Stranger things have happened... Final stage of signature starter of non-native country
229 004 Charmander Very Low Prof. Oak might get a "bright idea" similar to Prof. Birch's in Emerald Signature starter of a country player will not start out in in a remake
230 005 Charmeleon Very Low Stranger things have happened... Second stage of signature starter of non-native country
231 006 Charizard Very Low Stranger things have happened... Final stage of signature starter of non-native country
232 007 Squirtle Very Low Prof. Oak might get a "bright idea" similar to Prof. Birch's in Emerald Signature starter of a country player will not start out in in a remake
233 008 Wartortle Very Low Stranger things have happened... Second stage of signature starter of non-native country
234 009 Blastoise Very Low Stranger things have happened... Final stage of signature starter of non-native country
235 144 Articuno Very Low Could be worked into a remake in a new plot element... Legendary not native to player's country, didn't even appear in originals, and it appeared in the third to Sinnoh's games on top of that
236 145 Zapdos Very Low Could be worked into a remake in a new plot element... Legendary not native to player's country, didn't even appear in originals, and it appeared in the third to Sinnoh's games on top of that
237 146 Moltres Very Low Could be worked into a remake in a new plot element... Legendary not native to player's country, didn't even appear in originals, and it appeared in the third to Sinnoh's games on top of that
238 243 Raikou Guaranteed Legendary native to player's country, rested in Tin Tower prior to awakening in originals, part of the only legendary trio that did NOT appear in the third to Sinnoh's games -
239 244 Entei Guaranteed Legendary native to player's country, rested in Tin Tower prior to awakening in originals, part of the only legendary trio that did NOT appear in the third to Sinnoh's games -
240 245 Suicune Guaranteed Legendary native to player's country, rested in Tin Tower prior to awakening in originals, part of the only legendary trio that did NOT appear in the third to Sinnoh's games -
241 147 Dratini High Appears in holy dragon territory in originals, which is situated in Johto No guarantee Clair will send player off on extra task in remake, possible that entry to Dragon's Den could require National Pokédex, no guarantee that pond to the south of Blackthorn will still hold Dratini
242 148 Dragonair High Appears in holy dragon territory in originals, which is situated in Johto No guarantee Clair will send player off on extra task in remake, possible that entry to Dragon's Den could require National Pokédex, no guarantee that pond to the south of Blackthorn will still hold Dragonair
243 149 Dragonite High Final evolution of one findable in holy dragon territory No guarantee Clair will send player off on extra task in remake, possible that entry to Dragon's Den could require National Pokédex, no guarantee that pond to the south of Blackthorn will still hold Dragonair
244 246 Larvitar Low Could break its "very rare" stereotype and be common in Johto in a remake Only appeared in Silver Cave in originals, an area which requires going through Kanto to access, and thus could require the National Pokédex to reach
245 247 Pupitar Low Could break its "very rare" stereotype and be common in Johto in a remake Evolves from one that only appeared in Silver Cave in originals, an area which requires going through Kanto to access, and thus could require the National Pokédex to reach
246 248 Tyranitar Low Final evolution of one that could break its stereotype Final evolution of one that could keep its stereotype going
247 249 Lugia Guaranteed It's pretty much going to be the version mascot for the Silver side of the remakes, for crying out loud! -
248 250 Ho-Oh Guaranteed It's pretty much going to be the version mascot for the Gold side of the remakes, for crying out loud! -
249 150 Mewtwo Very Low Could be worked into a remake in a new plot element, especially since it didn't appear in the third to Sinnoh's games Legendary not native to player's country, didn't even appear in originals (although some of its genes did)
250 151 Mew Low An event Pokémon that could be easily obtained through events not requiring the National Pokédex to obtain Some event Pokémon native to Sinnoh didn't appear in that country's Pokédex, leaving no guarantee that Mew would appear in a remake's Johto Pokédex
251 251 Celebi Medium An event Pokémon that could be easily obtained through events not requiring the National Pokédex to obtain, especially since the GS Ball could be worked in Some event Pokémon native to Sinnoh didn't appear in that country's Pokédex, leaving no guarantee Celebi will appear in a remake's Johto Pokédex either