Talk:Soaring in the sky
Mirage spots
I think we need to address the issue of multiple Mirage Caves, Islands and Forest from previous gens, games and the TCG.
So to try and minimize confusion between the old Mirage Cave, Mirage Island and Mirage Forest and Gen VI Mirage Cave, Island, and Forest, we should change the Mirage Cave article to Mirage Cave Article to Mirage Cave (Mystery Dungeon) and turn the Mirage Cave Article into a directory article like the Unknown Dungeon article http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Unknown_Dungeon which would direct people to either the Mystery Dungeon version or the ORAS version Mirage Cave (Hoenn)
Next, the Mirage Island article (which is the real [censored] of this all) should also be turned into a Directory article. It should direct people to Mirage Island (RSE) for the Gen III version, and Mirage Island (ORAS) for the Gen VI version. Or we could also carefully retrofit it to cover both the RSE version and the ORAS version. I'm not opposed to either option.
Finally there should be a Mirage Forest Directory article that article directs people to Mirage Forest (Holon) (which would more or less just go to the same article that Mirage Forest currently redirects to) and Mirage Forest (Hoenn)
Since Mirage Mountain hasn't been used (to my knowledge) before, it simply should get a article titled Mirage Mountain (Hoenn). Yamitora1 (talk) 00:42, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
- Or we could just make them Mirage Forests, Mirage Caves, Mirage Islands and Mirage Mountains and throw a Template:Samename at the top. Or split them apart into 32 tiny, separate articles using the numbering system from the guide. glikglak 01:31, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
- For now, it's best to just create four pages with the plural titles glik mentions. No direct conflicts, just add a little directory template on confusing pages like Mirage Island.
- In the meantime, we can continue debating page names or merges or splits or whatever; but at least the information won't wait on those decisions. Tiddlywinks (talk) 01:42, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
- I have created a preliminary page here. If the design is liked, it can become the template to make the other three. Adamws (talk) 17:34, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
- That is a good start, but when you're in a mirage spot it will say Unknown Area and you can't tell where you are so the maps are not needed.Yamitora1 (talk) 05:34, 9 December 2014 (UTC)
- FWIW, I think maybe it would be nice if the locations were listed in numerical order of the route they're near (if it's near a city instead, then I suppose it'd depend on the earliest route connected to that city). Tiddlywinks (talk) 05:46, 9 December 2014 (UTC)
- That is a good start, but when you're in a mirage spot it will say Unknown Area and you can't tell where you are so the maps are not needed.Yamitora1 (talk) 05:34, 9 December 2014 (UTC)
- I have created a preliminary page here. If the design is liked, it can become the template to make the other three. Adamws (talk) 17:34, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
I did some searching around the web to see what others had to say about Mirage Islands. Its mostly a abyss of FAQ type stuff but I did learn that Serebii is counting Mirage Caves, Forests and Mountains as variations of the Mirage Islands, and not entirely separate Mirage Spots.
But we can't go by them lol. Anyways, does anyone have the Official Guide? How does it explain Mirage spots and Mirage Islands? Yamitora1 (talk) 21:07, 9 December 2014 (UTC)
On a new note I have confirmed that while Daily Mirage spots are preselected and cannot be changed if the game had been reseted without saving it, for the extra Mirage Spots from Street Pass via an internet connection, it is random and it is possible to use a soft reset and get different Mirage Spots as long as the game is not saved first. I used this trick to help finish my hunt for the wild Pokémon that can only be caught there namely Elekid and Unown. If someone thinks it would be noteworthy to add details about the Street Pass thing I mentioned go right ahead as I have successfully confirmed this myself and performing it multiple times and can be easily proven by anyone else. -Tyler53841 (talk) 21:36, 25 December 2014 (UTC)
Move
Soaring would be a more suitable name for this article, imo. But if someone has a better title, feel free to suggest it.--ForceFire 04:58, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
- While Soaring would be a better name, the in-game location for the Pokémon obtained via soaring is "Soaring in the sky". Adamws (talk) 05:20, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
- The purpose of this page was to be the location "Soaring in the sky". Adding the mechanics of soaring was my orignal idea because the mechanics page for soaring would be extremely short. Adamws (talk) 17:34, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
- Here is evidence that this is a location: ORAS Dialga. I don't have a capture card so I used my camera. Adamws (talk) 17:55, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
- For what it's worth, the guide almost always refers to it as Soar. Instead of "Soaring", it usually says "using Soar", as if it were a move. If the mechanic and the "location" are to be lumped together, I think the mechanic should have naming precedence. glikglak 00:49, 10 December 2014 (UTC)
- I think this come to down to policy. Which canon supersedes the other? I believe the page should stay as "Soaring in the sky" as the location make up over 95% of the page. Adamws (talk) 01:43, 10 December 2014 (UTC)
- There's not two canons, they're both in the game. Though I hesitate to call "Soaring in the sky" an actual location. It seems more like it just means you met it while Soaring. Besides, if this page were focused solely on the mechanic, the "location" information would still be relevant, as it's required to fully explain the mechanic. glikglak 02:35, 10 December 2014 (UTC)
- I think this come to down to policy. Which canon supersedes the other? I believe the page should stay as "Soaring in the sky" as the location make up over 95% of the page. Adamws (talk) 01:43, 10 December 2014 (UTC)
- For what it's worth, the guide almost always refers to it as Soar. Instead of "Soaring", it usually says "using Soar", as if it were a move. If the mechanic and the "location" are to be lumped together, I think the mechanic should have naming precedence. glikglak 00:49, 10 December 2014 (UTC)
- Here is evidence that this is a location: ORAS Dialga. I don't have a capture card so I used my camera. Adamws (talk) 17:55, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
- The purpose of this page was to be the location "Soaring in the sky". Adding the mechanics of soaring was my orignal idea because the mechanics page for soaring would be extremely short. Adamws (talk) 17:34, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
Sea Mauville
Should we list Sea Mauville? its a odd ball among the other Mirage spots. You can reach it without soaring, but it still has the mysterious floating rings. Or perhaps we should make a separate Mirage spot article? Yamitora1 (talk) 18:23, 9 December 2014 (UTC)
- I don't think so. It does have the mysterious rings but unlike the other Mirage Spots, it is always there and doesn't require a certain Pokémon in your party to appear, or appear and disappear daily. Adamws (talk) 18:29, 9 December 2014 (UTC)
- But it does require a special item, and only the Mirage cave, forest, island, crescent isle and mountains temporarily disappear, and the Storm Clouds and rifts in the Space-Time Continuum vanish permanently. All the other places remain open, they just lose the red shimmer effect but they can still be traveled to.
- If we made a page dedicated to just the rings or to the mirage spot idea, it would be a short page if it had nothing from this page. The spots already have pages and links from and to this page. Those mentioned on this page require soaring to reach all of them. The rings that appear in areas that you can reach without soaring (the Sea Mauville and the Scorched Slab) don't really need to be on the page. Adamws (talk) 20:24, 9 December 2014 (UTC)
Well, lets look at it this way. How many locations are only available through surf? Sure there are Pokémon you can encounter while surfing listed, but all the locations themselves are not. We need to make this article only about soaring, we can keep the list of Pokémon from flocks but put all other info into their own articles. Yamitora1 (talk) 20:36, 9 December 2014 (UTC)
- Perhaps you can just add another header under Locations. Perhaps you could add a new section "Normal locations" (or something better, IDK what) before the current sections and re-emphasize that any previously visited location can be visited from the sky, and at the same time note that Sea Mauville and the Scorched Slab inexplicably have the floating rings.
- After all, if the section is "Locations", that implies to me that it should cover all accessible locations, not just the special ones.
- @Yamitora: Surf isn't a great analogy. Surf is purely a mechanic, and you can surf in many different locations (yielding many different sets of encounterable Pokemon); but "soaring" is a mechanic that gives you access to a single area (with one set of Pokemon)...from which multiple other special areas are accessible. Tiddlywinks (talk) 20:44, 9 December 2014 (UTC)
- Ok, two things. One: This article is about the location "Soaring in the sky" (see the above post in the Move section). The reason that there is the mechanics for soaring are on this page is that the page would be a stub if soaring (the mechanic) was its own page. The reason that the other locations are mention is that they can only be visited via soaring. It is like an extended connection locations section of the location info box (look at Route 101 to see what I mean).
- Second thing: I looked on Pokémon.com to see if the wording could give the definition of "Mirage Spot." The wording points to the rings themselves being the Mirage Spots. So, yes, I do now agree that a link to the Sea Mauville and the Scorched Slab can be on this page, they just need to be under their own subsection. Thereby, I agree with Tiddlywinks. Adamws (talk) 20:57, 9 December 2014 (UTC)
- Any one else feel like smacking the GameFreak Director in the Lillycove Hotel and yelling "You're making things too complicated!" ? I mean just go right up to him from behind, and give him a good old fashion donkey punch to the back of the head! >_<
- Anyways, come to think of it, In all the official chatter about soaring, they never specifically said that you could only reach Mirage spots via soaring, only that you could reach them with it and that you could find rare Pokémon with it. Yamitora1 (talk) 21:30, 9 December 2014 (UTC)
- The website doesn't even mention the rings. In fact, it says In these games, you can encounter Legendary Pokémon in all kinds of places, and Mirage spots are just one of many!, implying the rings are entirely separate from the spots. The guide backs this up by calling them "mysterious rings", and not conflating them with Mirage spots (which wouldn't make sense anyways, since the rings only show up at the special Mirage spots). There's no reason to list any location not exclusively reached through Soar. glikglak 00:49, 10 December 2014 (UTC)
- Anyways, come to think of it, In all the official chatter about soaring, they never specifically said that you could only reach Mirage spots via soaring, only that you could reach them with it and that you could find rare Pokémon with it. Yamitora1 (talk) 21:30, 9 December 2014 (UTC)
- I thought it was fairly clear that Mirage Spots refer to the temporary locations accessed by soaring, not to the "rings" containing Legendary Pokémon. Trainers encountered in Secret Bases say that Pokémon like Tangela or Happiny (ones that are found in tall grass or in Mirage Caves) can be "found in Mirage Spots". They also list Pokémon like Raikou that can be found in "rings" in Mirage Spots, but I would assume that that's because the Mirage Spot (Pathless Plain, Trackless Forest, etc.) are Mirage Spots that happen to have those rings in them, rather than because the rings themselves are the Mirage Spots. Considering that, I would agree that Sea Mauville and Scorched Slab should be removed from the page, since they are permanent locations that are accessible even without soaring—not Mirage Spots at all. --AndyPKMN (talk) 01:21, 10 December 2014 (UTC)
- My brain hurts. Pokémon.com is conflicting itself, on the same page. One section says the quote that Glik mentioned, but there is also this quote: "Mirage spots can be found in the clouds and on small islands and in other locations..." As there is no location it the clouds, just the ring, it make it seem that Mirage spots are the rings. Whether the Sea Mauville and the Scorched Slab belong here is a question of the exact definition of "Mirage spot." Adamws (talk) 01:35, 10 December 2014 (UTC)
(resetting indent)The Storm Clouds are a Mirage spot. There aren't any rings just floating around, they're all inside a location. glikglak 02:35, 10 December 2014 (UTC)
- Perhaps its a translation issue; perhaps the Japanese site better explains the rings, and its getting lost in translation?
- As for Sea Mauvile and the Scorched Slab being permanent, all of the main Mirage spots are permanent except for the islands, storm clouds and dimensional rifts. I caught the three Johto beasts and I can still travel to the Trackless Forest. Its only lost its red glimmer icon, nothing else. Also, the Mysterious rings still are the catalysis in which the event Pokémon appears even in the storm clouds/dimensional rifts. Yamitora1 (talk) 05:46, 10 December 2014 (UTC)
- The organization that I used is as follows: Daily are the Mirage spots that only appear for 24 hours and can only be accessed via soar. Fixed are the Mirage spots that are always accessible if the requirements are met, whether the red sparkle is there or not and can only be accessed via soaring. The Other is those that don't fit in the previous two, either disappearing permanently after the Pokémon are obtained (Rift and Cloud) or can be accessed while on the ground (Sea Mauville and Scorched Slab). Adamws (talk) 05:59, 10 December 2014 (UTC)
- I see, well that certainly helps a lot. I still want to use a Choke pear on the gamefreak director for making my head hurt, but at least we have a good place to work from. Yamitora1 (talk) 06:07, 10 December 2014 (UTC)
I think the current "definition" of Mirage spots is wrong. I think only the "Daily" locations are "Mirage spots". (In other words, basically like it was structured previously.) They seem to be the ones that really act like mirages, which is essentially how the games define them. The "Fixed" locations just sound like they're uniquely accessible by Soaring, and the "Other" locations are just wrappings for special encounters. They're just easy to conflate with Mirage spots because they're all accessible by Soaring, but that's not the proper and complete requirement for a "Mirage spot".I was wrong. Since the "Fixed" locations have conditions, they're like mirages. And I guess the clouds/gaps get a pass. Plus they're all mentioned on the official site... But I think there could be a better word than "Fixed" for that set of locations.- @Yamitora: I had a rather different image of what the rings might be at first, but seeing them on the official site and your new edit, I think they're nothing but portals to special encounters. They don't have any special connection with "Mirage spots", you're just overthinking it. Tiddlywinks (talk) 06:29, 10 December 2014 (UTC)
- Both Sea Mauville and the Scorched Slab portals do have conditions. You have to have a item for the former, and you have to have dealt with Groundon/Kyogre for the latter.Yamitora1 (talk) 07:12, 10 December 2014 (UTC)
- I'm thinking I really can't form a good opinion at this point without playing the game myself. But let me ask this: before beating Kyogre/Groundon, can you stand where the portal should be? If so, then I could agree that it's conditional; but if not...well, I could perhaps swing either way, but I'd lean a bit towards not. (This is still a bit separate from whether I think portal = Mirage spot. I want to play the game to decide that.) Tiddlywinks (talk) 16:46, 10 December 2014 (UTC)
- I see, well that certainly helps a lot. I still want to use a Choke pear on the gamefreak director for making my head hurt, but at least we have a good place to work from. Yamitora1 (talk) 06:07, 10 December 2014 (UTC)
With Sea Mauville, you can stand (or float) where the rings would appear before you get the item needed. With the Scorched Slab, to be honest I visited it before defeating Kyogre, and I'm not sure how I missed it, but I don't remember seeing the 3rd basement entry way until after defeating it. Yamitora1 (talk) 23:48, 10 December 2014 (UTC)
Official Names - Huge gap to Dimensional Rift; Black clouds to Storm clouds
It is said in the recent update of the official US website of Pokémon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire that you can encounter Dialga, Palkia and Girantina in the Dimensional Rift Mirage Spot and Tornadus, Thundurus and Landorus in the Storm Cloud Mirage Spot, that can be both found in the skies of Hoenn.
- Dimensional Rift link: http://www.pokemonrubysapphire.com/en-us/pokemon/legendary-pokemon/introducing-more-legendary-pokemon
- Storm cloud link: http://www.pokemonrubysapphire.com/en-us/pokemon/legendary-pokemon/more-legendary-pokemon-appearing-in-mirage-spots
So, can I or someone revert the article back to the one with the changes I made? If the 'tt' is not acceptable, it's ok. I just thought of it as a cleaner way than to show it all. — AwesomeDJPokémon 18:30, 19 December 2014 (UTC)
Identify a couple Mirage spots...
Can anyone identify this Mirage Cave and this Mirage Island so they can be placed in the appropriate section of Mirage Caves and Mirage Islands? Tiddlywinks (talk) 21:02, 19 December 2014 (UTC)
- The Mirage Island is North of Route 113 and the Mirage Cave is North of Fortree City. Lady Ariel 21:25, 19 December 2014 (UTC)
Buttons
I was wondering if it would look better if we used images for the buttons instead of text
Example:
| Maneuver | Description | Combination |
|---|---|---|
| Bucking | The Pokémon begins to thrash while the rider lets go. The rider then attempts to maintain their balance on its back. |  or 
|
| Loop the Loop | The Pokémon pitches upwards, inverting itself and the rider in an arch before nosediving and completing a 360° flip. |  + 
|
| Zoom climb | The Pokémon accelerates rapidly upwards while rolling into a spin. |  +  + 
|
| Dive-bomb Dash | The Pokémon accelerates rapidly downward while performing a spinning dive. | + 
|
| Immelmann turn | The Pokémon pitches upwards 90°, break into an erect spin making 3 rotations, followed by leveling off at another 90°. This forces itself and the rider to reface the Hoenn region. | Reaching the Map's edge |
Also as you can see I can make the buttons individually, different sizes and if needed different colors.
I kind of like the individual button approach. Yamitora1 (talk) 02:17, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
- Looking like that, I'd have to say no. What you have for the "combination" for Bucking is very confusing to me and does not really imply A or Down+A to me like the page currently says. Also, with the joystick images, it can be hard to tell if they're showing it neutral or tilted in some direction. It may after all be best if it just stays as text; at least we can be pretty sure people won't confuse the directions like that. Tiddlywinks (talk) 02:43, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
- Those are just different examples and not the final look. The point of these were to gauge what looks best and what the editors think would be best. I can easily modify these to fit our needs, its not set in stone. I can also animate them as well as make the Circle Pad have a directional arrow pointing the direction it needs to be tilted. Yamitora1 (talk) 03:11, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
- How about this for the Circle Pad's direction? They used a similar method of relaying controls in the How to Win in Smash videos. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8l-O1htYGY
OR 
- So Bucking would look like...
or + OR or +
- depending on whichever one looks better. Yamitora1 (talk) 10:49, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
- I will say it's better. And I'd say the first versions (with just the joystick) are better than the second. But I really just don't feel the need for it... (In other words, this is about as far as I care to help. You'll probably have to hope for someone else to show up and support the idea.) Tiddlywinks (talk) 10:59, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
- depending on whichever one looks better. Yamitora1 (talk) 10:49, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
Barrel-Roll Dash
That's....not a barrel roll. Barrel roll looks like this: 
I redirected the link to point to the trick I believe it actually is, an aileron roll. And yes, the 'Barrel Roll' in Star Fox 64 is actually an aileron roll as well.
CybeastID (talk) 11:10, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
- No, a Barrel Roll is when the aircraft makes a complete 360° rotation while propelling forward.
- No, a Barrel Roll is when the aircraft makes a complete 360° rotation while propelling forward.
Yamitora1 (talk) 03:14, 6 January 2015 (UTC)
Renaming Soaring in the Sky to Soaring
How about we just call it Soaring. makes more sense and easy to find(Jacob Kogan (talk) 02:18, 6 January 2015 (UTC)).
- The official name of the activity is "Soaring in the sky". If you engage a flock of birds and capture the Pokémon encountered (you might get a Lv.45 Braviary, in fact), it actually says the catch location is "Soaring in the sky". Therefore, that's the official name and there's no reason to change it. If anything, "Soaring" could redirect there, and that might be a good idea. CycloneGU (talk) 02:26, 6 January 2015 (UTC)
Now I get it --Jacob Kogan (talk) 02:55, 6 January 2015 (UTC)
- The official name for the activity is Soaring (or possibly "using Soar" is more accurate; the website never uses Soaring and the guide does so only a few times); the location is the sky. glikglak 02:59, 6 January 2015 (UTC)
- But the game uses "Soaring in the sky", so that's official. CycloneGU (talk) 03:40, 6 January 2015 (UTC)
- It does not call the activity Soaring in the sky, it calls a location that. Met locations are not exact names of locations (the Larvesta egg in BW lists Treasure Hunter, for example) and if they were the end-all for official names, Mirage Island would be called Route 130. glikglak 03:52, 6 January 2015 (UTC)
- So R/S/E refers to a hatch on Mirage Island as Route 130 or as Mirage Island? If they show as "Route 130", it's still right as Mirage Island is smack dab in the middle of it.
- When an Egg is hatched, it would say something like, "Hatched on Route 107". I don't know if steps count in the sky, but I'd be curious about an Egg hatched up there. CycloneGU (talk) 04:07, 6 January 2015 (UTC)
- It just came to mind that we are agreeing. Weird how that works. CycloneGU (talk) 04:08, 6 January 2015 (UTC)
- BTW, "Soaring" already redirects here and has for ages, so finding the page is not an issue.
- As for Gen III Mirage Island, it is simply a part of Route 130. --SnorlaxMonster 06:31, 6 January 2015 (UTC)
- The official site actually uses "Soar" in a few places. I could therefore support moving the page to "Soar" (certainly I would support that over "Soaring"). Tiddlywinks (talk) 16:35, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
- It just came to mind that we are agreeing. Weird how that works. CycloneGU (talk) 04:08, 6 January 2015 (UTC)
- It does not call the activity Soaring in the sky, it calls a location that. Met locations are not exact names of locations (the Larvesta egg in BW lists Treasure Hunter, for example) and if they were the end-all for official names, Mirage Island would be called Route 130. glikglak 03:52, 6 January 2015 (UTC)
- But the game uses "Soaring in the sky", so that's official. CycloneGU (talk) 03:40, 6 January 2015 (UTC)
(resetting indent)I'm on the fence about the -ing. Unlike Fly/flying and Surf/surfing, Soaring doesn't have a secondary function that would require stipulating Soar from Soaring. And what do we call Soar? Since the correct phrasing is apparently "using Soar", calling it a mechanic doesn't seem right. glikglak 16:53, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
- "Soar" sounds more like a move. "Swablu uses Soar. It's super effective!" CycloneGU (talk) 17:00, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
- Why is the "correct" phrasing "using Soar"? The official site says "Take Flight and Soar", "[...] Soar freely", and "Soar the skies". Those are all simple verb usages. And ORAS uses "Soar" too, on the Mirage Detection Unit program. All this makes "Soar" far more official than "Soaring". And official terminology should always be preferred. Tiddlywinks (talk) 17:19, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
- Player uses the Eon Flute. Lati(a/o)s appears and the player jumps on. Technically, it's the Pokémon using Soar, which makes sense as by itself it sounds more like a move.
- While you are on Lati(a/o)s' back, you encounter a Lv.45 Braviary and successfully catch it. The catch location says "Soaring in the sky" exactly like that. This is exactly like when you are on Route 120 and catch the invisible Kecleon; it says the catch location is "Route 120".
- Therefore, I still consider "Soaring in the sky" to be official. "Soaring" is the term for the Pokémon move, if anything. CycloneGU (talk) 17:31, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
- I honestly don't think I really care whether this article stays named "Soaring in the sky". But I surely don't want it moved to "Soaring", not over "Soar".
- Nothing about "Soar" being the most official term for the action contradicts "Soaring in the sky". There's no reason you should consider "Soaring" the "term for the Pokemon move" unless you just can't see the forest for the trees... Lati@s Soars and while Soaring in the sky, you catch Pokemon, for whom that is their met location. "Soar" > "Soaring". Tiddlywinks (talk) 17:40, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
- I'm suggesting that I also would prefer "Soar" over "Soaring", which should not be considered. However, if we do that, we have to rewrite it as a move article. The move is "Soar" and the activity is "Soaring in the sky"; since the player can't even soar in the sky without Latios or Latias, the argument is that "Soaring in the sky" is official. A separate page regarding the "move" could be installed while the catch data remains at "Soaring in the sky". CycloneGU (talk) 17:43, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
- I guess I sort of understand your position, but personally I don't think it'd be a problem to make this same article work under the title "Soar". Tiddlywinks (talk) 17:52, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
- I'm suggesting that I also would prefer "Soar" over "Soaring", which should not be considered. However, if we do that, we have to rewrite it as a move article. The move is "Soar" and the activity is "Soaring in the sky"; since the player can't even soar in the sky without Latios or Latias, the argument is that "Soaring in the sky" is official. A separate page regarding the "move" could be installed while the catch data remains at "Soaring in the sky". CycloneGU (talk) 17:43, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
- Why is the "correct" phrasing "using Soar"? The official site says "Take Flight and Soar", "[...] Soar freely", and "Soar the skies". Those are all simple verb usages. And ORAS uses "Soar" too, on the Mirage Detection Unit program. All this makes "Soar" far more official than "Soaring". And official terminology should always be preferred. Tiddlywinks (talk) 17:19, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
(resetting indent)I mean that "using Soar" is the correct phrasing for the present tense instead of using the participle "is Soaring". That indicates that it's not simply a mechanic or activity, but something that can actually be used as a move would be. But it's not a move, nor Ability, so what exactly do we call it? glikglak 18:29, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
- I still can't grasp what hair you're trying to split... How about this: Where is "is Soaring" used that you think is wrong? Or where are you imagining it being used? For instance, I wouldn't see any problem whatsoever with "Lati@s is Soaring in the sky"; by contrast, I don't even know how you're supposed to substitute "using Soar" and still make sense...
- I also don't really see a problem with calling "Soar" a game mechanic. Tiddlywinks (talk) 18:50, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
- It isn't used, I'm using it to point out that the phrasing seems to indicate that Soar isn't solely a mechanic. Wording bounces between an activity to be done (where it's used as a verb) and something to be used to cause an action (where it's used as a noun). That's the same wording for field moves, where using the move initiates the mechanic, e.g. You use Surf to begin Surfing. So it looks to me like you use Soar to Soar. glikglak 20:44, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
- I'm just gonna try to keep this simple (maybe "dumb"). To "use Soar (noun)" simply means to undertake that action that lets one Soar (verb). In the process of using the Eon Flute, you/Lati@s use Soar (noun) to Soar (verb) into the sky. ...I think I'm fine with describing either of those usages as simply a game mechanic. Tiddlywinks (talk) 04:28, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
- It isn't used, I'm using it to point out that the phrasing seems to indicate that Soar isn't solely a mechanic. Wording bounces between an activity to be done (where it's used as a verb) and something to be used to cause an action (where it's used as a noun). That's the same wording for field moves, where using the move initiates the mechanic, e.g. You use Surf to begin Surfing. So it looks to me like you use Soar to Soar. glikglak 20:44, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
What bugs me is that everyone talks about "soar" and "soaring" like they're the only alternatives. What's stopping us from using "Sky" or "The Sky"? The location list at the bottom of the page calls it "Sky" anyway, and it certainly fits as a location. It suits me better than "Soar(ing)". Sensei Le Roof (talk) 07:36, 15 January 2015 (UTC)
- I don't understand what's wrong with the current title. Soaring in the sky is what the game mechanic is. It's called that in the game. You are literally soaring... in the sky. Soaring and soar could redirect, sure, but I think it's fine the way it is and should be left alone. ☆The Solar Dragon☆ 09:14, 15 January 2015 (UTC)
- I'm okay with your conclusion, but your reasoning is faulty. If you want to name the article for the mechanic, the only option should be "Soar". "Soaring in the sky" is only an accurate description of the mechanic; it is not the official name, and that is what we would strongly favor. "Soaring in the sky" is the official met location only. If you want to say this article is fine named for the met location, that's alright by me.
- On a bit of a tangent/trivia: it looks like the Japanese names for "Fly" and "Soar" are そらをとぶ (fly in/through the sky) and おおぞらをとぶ (fly in/through the wide open sky). So they're actually a lot more similar than I (at least) imagined. Tiddlywinks (talk) 10:26, 15 January 2015 (UTC)
- Well, unless I'm mistaken, at least half this article is about the location. So, unless we're going to split the article into the mechanic and the location, which is a possibility, there's no reason it can't remain at the current title. ☆The Solar Dragon☆ 10:32, 15 January 2015 (UTC)
- Changing the title does not mean the contents must be split, no more than they should be split now just because the title is for the met location. If it's fine now, it'd be equally fine under "Soar". Tiddlywinks (talk) 10:54, 15 January 2015 (UTC)
- Most of the article's actually about Mirage spots. They could be their own article, but it'd be pretty small and since Soar really only exists because of them, it makes since to combine them with the mechanic. The sky's nothing more than a connecting location, sans the Storm Clouds and Dimensional Rifts; a page solely about the location's only going to have the Pokémon list. glikglak 13:01, 15 January 2015 (UTC)
- Mirage Spots already have their own articles, anyway. See Crescent Isle, Trackless Forest, and Nameless Cavern, just to name a few. All Mirage Caves have a single article, as do all Mirage Islands, Mirage Mountains, and Mirage Forests. And I personally think that's fine. It helped me catch all Pokémon in them (except Munna, so far). So it's useful as a guide, too. If you consider all those articles, that leaves this article about the mechanic. That doesn't waver my opinion that it should still be called "Soaring in the sky" over "Soaring" or "Sky"; "Soar" is more like the Pokémon move, while the player's activity is "Soaring in the sky", and all catches up there say "Soaring in the sky" for location. So the title must remain. CycloneGU (talk) 14:44, 15 January 2015 (UTC)
- ...There isn't a move called Soar. There's a mechanic (or something) called Soar. I know the Mirage spots have their specific pages but Mirage spots as a whole don't. And for the final time, " Soaring in the sky" is not the official name. For anything. glikglak 15:49, 15 January 2015 (UTC)
- The problem is that anything other than "Soaring in the sky" would not be a good title for the article IMO. And I say "Soar" is like a Pokémon move, not that it is one (Latios uses Soar, player hops on). I believe I used "the" instead of "a" in error in the last comment. CycloneGU (talk) 15:51, 15 January 2015 (UTC)
- Isn't it would be simpler to just leave the page as "Soaring in the sky", and give redirects to it from "Soar" and "Soaring", as those pages doesn't exist for current moment anyways? And also, I agree with anyone who suggested before to keep this article name as it is based on location where some of pokemons are captured while riding Eon pokemon. TLN (talk) 11:23, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
- The problem is that anything other than "Soaring in the sky" would not be a good title for the article IMO. And I say "Soar" is like a Pokémon move, not that it is one (Latios uses Soar, player hops on). I believe I used "the" instead of "a" in error in the last comment. CycloneGU (talk) 15:51, 15 January 2015 (UTC)
- ...There isn't a move called Soar. There's a mechanic (or something) called Soar. I know the Mirage spots have their specific pages but Mirage spots as a whole don't. And for the final time, " Soaring in the sky" is not the official name. For anything. glikglak 15:49, 15 January 2015 (UTC)
- Mirage Spots already have their own articles, anyway. See Crescent Isle, Trackless Forest, and Nameless Cavern, just to name a few. All Mirage Caves have a single article, as do all Mirage Islands, Mirage Mountains, and Mirage Forests. And I personally think that's fine. It helped me catch all Pokémon in them (except Munna, so far). So it's useful as a guide, too. If you consider all those articles, that leaves this article about the mechanic. That doesn't waver my opinion that it should still be called "Soaring in the sky" over "Soaring" or "Sky"; "Soar" is more like the Pokémon move, while the player's activity is "Soaring in the sky", and all catches up there say "Soaring in the sky" for location. So the title must remain. CycloneGU (talk) 14:44, 15 January 2015 (UTC)
- Most of the article's actually about Mirage spots. They could be their own article, but it'd be pretty small and since Soar really only exists because of them, it makes since to combine them with the mechanic. The sky's nothing more than a connecting location, sans the Storm Clouds and Dimensional Rifts; a page solely about the location's only going to have the Pokémon list. glikglak 13:01, 15 January 2015 (UTC)
- Changing the title does not mean the contents must be split, no more than they should be split now just because the title is for the met location. If it's fine now, it'd be equally fine under "Soar". Tiddlywinks (talk) 10:54, 15 January 2015 (UTC)
- Well, unless I'm mistaken, at least half this article is about the location. So, unless we're going to split the article into the mechanic and the location, which is a possibility, there's no reason it can't remain at the current title. ☆The Solar Dragon☆ 10:32, 15 January 2015 (UTC)
- "Soaring" should be the article's title because "Soaring in the sky" is just a description. The verb "to soar" means "to fly or rise high in the air" and "soaring" is the noun describing the action or process. SatoMew 21:12, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
- "Soaring" redirects to this page anyways, so what's the problem? Name of article should be quite much explaining itself, and here, it does exactly that. I no longer see any reasons why actually discuss that topic, because moving the whole page just because someone doesn't feels quite right about it's current name is, in main part, vanity thing and doesn't really affects anything. TLN (talk) 21:17, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
- Article titles aren't descriptions, that's what the contents on the article are for! → This should be a rule, even though it's obvious. SatoMew 21:24, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
- At the very least, "Soaring" is not a proper title, as it derives from "Soar", which has plenty of official usage. (Note that that last page says, "Among the destinations you can reach using Soar"; that is, they are using "Soar" not as a verb, but as a noun, to refer to the mechanic.) Tiddlywinks (talk) 21:34, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
- "Soar" can be used as name article, all right. As it's the name of mechanic. But as I checked very first revision of the page, original name of article supposed to mean "Soaring in the sky" as centrain type of location, through which you go to get to centrain different locations, as Mirage spots, Rifts and Storms, or catch pokemons. I guess the current name is still more suitable, as if then using "Soar" or "Soaring" it sounds more like if we're talking about centrain move used by pokemon, but indeed not like something that would be centrain in-game location. TLN (talk) 21:47, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
- "Among the destinations you can reach using Soar" means "Among the destinations you can reach using the function called 'Soar' in the game." since the game is a piece of software, after all. They're not calling the process "soar", only the in-game option which is labeled like that. SatoMew 21:57, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
- "and you’ll be able to take off on its back to Soar the skies" shows that the process is also called "Soar". glikglak 23:28, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
- "Soaring" is a simple gerund, a direct conjugation of a verb. It may function as a noun, but it is still an inherently verbal form; it's an improvisation, a language hack for "I need a noun here but all I really have is the verb". That's not much of a noun, and not an ideal name for an article, not when the base form is also very deliberately used in a special way. Heck, if nothing else, naming the page "Soaring" just makes trouble if someone wants to link the word "Soar", whereas linking "Soaring" if the page is named "Soar" is dead simple. "Soaring" is not better than "Soar".
- Addendum: Also, SatoMew, your substitution of "Soar" for "the function called 'Soar' in the game" above is nothing short of a definition of the noun Soar... Tiddlywinks (talk) 00:16, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
- IIRC there is nothing that prevents a gerund from being both a verb conjugation and a noun. I do agree that "Soar" facilitates linking since it's easier (and the gerund can still be used as a link by typing it as Soaring).
What I said defines "soar" as a noun but both Oxford Dictionaries and Merriam-Webster, which are reliable sources, classify it as a verb while "soaring" is classified as a noun by Merriam-Webster (Oxford Dictionaries doesn't have an English-English entry for it). SatoMew 00:53, 9 February 2015 (UTC)- The dictionary doesn't strictly matter. The official site used "Soar" as a noun, so it's officially okay as far as the wiki is concerned. Yes, "soaring" functions as a noun, but everything I said above stands: it still directly derives from the verb. I'd even be willing to bet that's why Oxford didn't bother with an entry. And I noticed that Merriam-Webster actually indulged in the sin of using "soaring" to define "soaring"... (That it continued with a "clarification" is pointless; it fairly well demonstrates (IMO) the derivative nature of the word (/pointlessness of defining it uniquely).) Tiddlywinks (talk) 01:04, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
- Well then, this begs another question: should other articles like Fainting be moved to titles that are not gerunds? After all, "faint" is an adjective and a verb but it is also a noun (although there is the noun "faintness"). Having checked Oxford and Merriam-Webster, they both redirect "fainting" to "faint". SatoMew 01:28, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
- The dictionary doesn't strictly matter. The official site used "Soar" as a noun, so it's officially okay as far as the wiki is concerned. Yes, "soaring" functions as a noun, but everything I said above stands: it still directly derives from the verb. I'd even be willing to bet that's why Oxford didn't bother with an entry. And I noticed that Merriam-Webster actually indulged in the sin of using "soaring" to define "soaring"... (That it continued with a "clarification" is pointless; it fairly well demonstrates (IMO) the derivative nature of the word (/pointlessness of defining it uniquely).) Tiddlywinks (talk) 01:04, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
- IIRC there is nothing that prevents a gerund from being both a verb conjugation and a noun. I do agree that "Soar" facilitates linking since it's easier (and the gerund can still be used as a link by typing it as Soaring).
- "and you’ll be able to take off on its back to Soar the skies" shows that the process is also called "Soar". glikglak 23:28, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
- At the very least, "Soaring" is not a proper title, as it derives from "Soar", which has plenty of official usage. (Note that that last page says, "Among the destinations you can reach using Soar"; that is, they are using "Soar" not as a verb, but as a noun, to refer to the mechanic.) Tiddlywinks (talk) 21:34, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
- Article titles aren't descriptions, that's what the contents on the article are for! → This should be a rule, even though it's obvious. SatoMew 21:24, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
- "Soaring" redirects to this page anyways, so what's the problem? Name of article should be quite much explaining itself, and here, it does exactly that. I no longer see any reasons why actually discuss that topic, because moving the whole page just because someone doesn't feels quite right about it's current name is, in main part, vanity thing and doesn't really affects anything. TLN (talk) 21:17, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
(resetting indent)Let's just get the big "-ing" mechanics pages out of the way then. I'll start with the easy ones: "fishing" is a splendid activity/sport, so I'll give that a pass, but "soft resetting" definitely should be "soft reset" IMO. "Saving" I could see as "save". For "snagging", I can only say that "snag" just doesn't work for me, but I also kind of think it could be part of another page. "Fainting" is a bit of a stumper... It occurs to me that I'm not 100% behind the wording in the intro that "Fainting is a status condition". I think I would be alright with the page being "Faint (status condition)", but I could also see arguments against that perhaps.
Those would certainly deserve some discussion of their own, though. What I know right now, for Soar, though, is that "Soar" is at least as official/proper as "Soaring". Tiddlywinks (talk) 01:54, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
- I'm just going to place my 2c. Regarding the split, maybe only split off the Mirage Spot portion of the article. It looks large enough to have its own article, in my opinion. As for the title, the page appears more like an article about the mechanic. "Soaring in the Sky" is not the mechanic term, Soar/Soaring is. I think in this case, we have to put official usage aside and use common sense. Does this article sound like an article on the location (thus the title would be left at "Soaring in the Sky") or the mechanic (the article would be renamed Soar/Soaring)? I'm leaning on the latter.--ForceFire 06:30, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
- Why add any 2c from you if you're the one who originally started the whole topic? I actually believe if there'd be no questioning with matter of "proper" article name, there would also not rise a question on matters of splitting(and information in split template actually seems to be quite weird. Like, splitting some info from it into separate article of "Sky"? Though, if think of it at some point, it still makes some common sense, but how much of point?). I still stand on point that it'd be better to leave this article as it is and instead make a several redirects and keep them, maybe modificate a page structure a bit to explain all points of what mentioned here, like Soar, Mirage spot access and pokemons in Sky. But as of now, this discussion doesn't seems to be going anythere, as peoples starting to talk about what's verb, what's noun and should the article name be the single world or it should be self-explanatory. As my believe, the discussion should be raised to wiki administration, so decision on it's actual name could be made not on base of someone's liking but on administration decision made among high-ranged members. TLN (talk) 14:24, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
This subject is unneeded, because of the "Move" subject above. Anyways, my vote on the matter is either keep the article as "Soaring in the Sky" to match the english met location, or move it to "Sky" to match the template/japanese met location. SylveonRando1 (talk) 03:22, 22 February 2023 (UTC)
Does the 3DS Circle Pad Pro or New 3DS have effect?
Now that the New 3DS has been released globally, at least to my knowledge, I think its time to ask an important question... Does the Circle Pad Pro and/or New 3DS allow any other tricks or have any impact at all on the mechanics? Yamitora1 (talk) 05:33, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
Interwiki links
Here are the interwiki links currently on the page:
- Equivalent to "sky"
- Equivalent to "soar"
- Equivalent to "mirage spot"
On PokéWiki, the Luftraum (Hoenn) page is mostly about the location, with the infobox, a brief list of visitable locations, and the list of encounterable Pokémon much like Sky (Ranger). The Fortbewegungsmöglichkeiten#Überflieger page is a section on their equivalent to Transportation in the Pokémon world, which mostly is just a list of tricks. The Wundersame Orte page is pretty much just a list of mirage spots.
Because of this, our page too broad to have just one interwiki link (primarily due to the English translation team translating 天空 as "soaring in the sky"), and instead has three equivalent articles on PokéWiki, Pokémon Central Wiki, and Pokémon Wiki, and two on Poképédia and 52Poké Wiki. Which interwiki links should we be using? --Abcboy (talk) 11:55, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
- primarily due to the English translation team translating 天空 as "soaring in the sky" - Actually, the full Japanese term is 「大空を飛ぶ」 soaring in the sky.
- I think the interwiki links we should use are the "soar" ones. That's what this page is primarily about. --SnorlaxMonster 12:09, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
- The location data for a Pokémon caught while soaring is "sky" in every language except for English. A Pokémon with a met location of "Soaring in the sky" in an English game will say "天空" in Japanese, "Luftraum" in German, "Grand Ciel" in French, etc. The English translation team took some liberties in translating that met location data. --Abcboy (talk) 21:29, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
Game Mechanics
Hello, could anyone find out if Soaring is handled similarly to Flying? It is my opinion that if it is treated in the same manner as the field move Fly, the page should be moved to Soar. Otherwise, I would personally be fine with the article as it is. Eragon4 (talk) 21:57, 13 March 2019 (UTC)
