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Talk:Seven Sages

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Ghetsis's escape

Cheren mention's that he let Ghetsis escape. Is there another location where you find him again? Inuichi 22:21, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

No, you never see him again. And Cheren never let him go, Ghetsis escaped and Cheren was blaming himself for it Ataro 22:24, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
The article states that Ghetsis was arrested prior to Looker's quest; while that's true, the point you two raised should take precedence: Ghetsis escaped custody and cannot be found. I shall have to think about a concise way to state that, so that it fits within the context of that section. Perhaps something along the lines of "Nowhere" under the Location Arrested column, with mouse-over text clarifying that he escaped. The mouse-over text under TM Given should be removed, as well. Lostdrewid 18:18, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
Or maybe leaving "N's Castle" intact as the place he's arrested, but still including the mouse-over text there. Either works, I suppose. Thoughts? Lostdrewid 18:20, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
Leaving it intact and adding the mouse-over text would be the ideal solution. After all, he WAS arrested, even if he managed to escape later on. Just because I've eaten a cake doesn't mean no-one made it... Nytik 18:28, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Post-game Giallo

Giallo has two interchangeable quotes.

"Are you and Reshiram/Zekrom building a mutual understanding?"
"Are you not making friends with Reshiram/Zekrom?"

I've basically gotten high happiness with Reishiram (I have Black) without leveling it up, and that does not trigger the first line; I keep getting the second. Can anyone confirm if leveling their box legendary up (to what point, I don't know) is the trigger for the first line (because I'm not doing that, if I can help it)? Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 11:49, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

Zinzolin and Ryoku

So if I said they were the two facially visible sages in the opening, would anyone believe me, and if they did, could it be added? Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 20:49, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

I remember getting a screenshot of the opening an working that out too. [1] Except that I disagree about the second one being Ryoku, the eyebrows are wrong; I would say he is Rood. --SnorlaxMonster 12:43, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
If we judge by PokeSpe designs, then that can't be Ryoku. Rood, on the other hand, hasn't appeared in the manga yet, so that might be him. But again, manga =/= games, Yamamoto could be wrong. --Maxim 12:56, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
I say Ryoko because his beard was much bushier than Rood's (who also doesn't have the right eyebrows; guy in the opening has thin black eyebrows, and Rood's got big bushy blond eyebrows). And coloring doesn't help at all from the opening, since both are in brown and hair color's the same all round. As for the manga helping dictate who's who, they certainly got creative with the Triad (hair bob over obvious wild hair; masks over black strips); it's not impossible they took their own liberties (again), given we don't have artwork (again). Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 13:17, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
Actually, comparing the sprites, the beards look exactly the same, just one is blonde and the other is gray. And Rood's eyebrows are nowhere near as bushy as Ryoku's. In fact, none of the sages are shown to have black eyebrows in their sprites, and Zinzolin is the only one whose eyebrows you cannot see (who it cannot be because he's the other one). Now, Rood's eyebrows are pretty skinny, and the facial hair doesn't match Bronius, Gorm, or Giallo (and two of those have no visible hair on the scalp). And I agree that Adventures isn't really good evidence in this situation, but that's because they turn Ryoku's beard into just a giant moustache. --SnorlaxMonster 13:38, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
They're not the same. Rood's got this little beard and little mustache that's in no way comparable to the huge thing on the Rightside Sage. Ryoko's got something that's a lot wider, therefor bigger. Also, those patches of hair on Ryoko's face aren't his eyebrows. That's his hair. The eyebrows you can just make out the inner start off, because they point out of the mess just about the eyes and get lost in his hair (in essence, they're eyebrows are probably the same size; on eyebrows, Giallo and Gorm's are snow white, Bronius' are pale grey, and Zinzolin's are so close to his hairline, it looks like his hair, but like everyone else's eyebrows, they're patches of color with no outline). On the other hand, Rightside Sage's hair is neat-appearing, much like Rood's and unlike Ryoko's, so on that point alone it's probably Rood. So, dunno anymore. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 14:01, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
Okay, zooming in so far I can see individual pixels, the only difference between the beards of Rood and Ryoku is that Ryoku's goes one pixel higher and has a extra supporting pixel at one point between his beard and the edge of his head. However, the side sprites indicate that Ryoku has sideburns, something which the opening sage is missing. After checking the side sprites, I admit I was mistaken about the eyebrows/hair; it is indeed his hair. --SnorlaxMonster 16:27, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
Animated side-sprites would be nice. I was using the magnified versions at the bottom here (so handy~). Bread's more than a pixel wider, but I suppose that doesn't make much of a difference. With a side view, it does pretty much look like Rood's the Rightside Sage. Well played, sir. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 17:00, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

Chinese Philosophy

Considering that the trivia on Sun Tzu's quote is mentioned, should we modify it to include quotes from other Chinese philosphers? Some of them are not very exact translation, but the meaning is there. Here's a partial list from what I found:

  1. "There are not two suns in the sky, nor two sovereigns over the people" (天無二日,民無二王)
    Mencius (Wanzhang - 萬章) - Quoted by Confucius
  2. "If you make a mistake and do not correct it, that is a second mistake" (過而不改,是謂過矣)
    Analects (Duke Ling of Wei)
  3. "When the Way is forgotten, duty and justice appear" (大道廢,有仁義)
    Tao Te Ching
  4. "Those in accord with Fate are preserved, and those who rebel against Fate perish." (順天者存,逆天者亡)
    Mencius's (Lilou - 離婁)
  5. Superior men understand what is right. Inferior men understand what will sell (君子喻於義,小人喻於利)
    The Analects (Liren - 里仁)
  6. Constant dripping wears away the stone. (水滴石穿)

--超龍對話 08:30, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Maybe the Japanese will make it more obvious. Here are the JP 'first N'S Castle' lines, in the order spoken.
  1. "天に 従う者は 存し
    天に 逆らう者は 滅ぶ"*
  2. "大道 廃れて 仁義あり"
  3. "一を知りて 二を知らず"* "For every thing you know, there are two things you don't."*
  4. "過ちて 改めざる
    是を 過ちと いう"
  5. "君子は 義に さとり
    小人は 利に さとる"
  6. "天に二日なく 民に二王なし"
Unfortunately I can't seem to find the 'talk to the Sages fighting the Leaders' lines at this moment however, but I'll keep looking. Bluesun 15:59, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
Found a vid with them. Four of them seem like they may be proverbs, so here they are:
  1. ヴィオ『……天の道は
    有余を損じて 不足を補う
  2. アスラ『一葉 落ちて
    天下の秋を知る
  3. リョクシ『人事を尽くして天命を待つ
  4. ロット『雨だれ 石をうがつ……
The other two are just 'Don't you get in our way!'-style stuff, so I haven't listed them. Bluesun 16:14, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
Sorry to keep you waiting, but I was able to find the source of those lines:
  1. 天の道は 有余を損じて 不足を補う should be 天之道,損有餘而補不足. (Tao Te Ching)
  2. 一葉 落ちて 天下の秋を知る should be 見一葉落,而知歲之將暮*. (Huainanzi's Discourse on Mountains [說山訓])
  3. 人事を尽くして天命を待つ should be 盡人事而待天命 (Hu Yin [胡寅]'s 讀史管見).
  4. 雨だれ 石をうがつ should be 水滴石穿.
--超龍對話 16:07, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
So I guess that's pretty complete now... at least 11 quotes... it does seem like a central theme and so probably should go on the page. Bluesun 21:59, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

Kami trio

In the manga section, it would be neater to gather Rood's three Pokémon in one box. May I? |) u |( e ® 13:19, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

I disagree. Tornadus and Thundurus, maybe, but Landorus should stay separate. Personally I've never been a fan of combining different Pokémon into one box anyway. --SnorlaxMonster 13:02, 27 February 2012 (UTC)
I agree with SnorlaxMonster. Pokemon are their own entities. They should stay in separate boxes. Littlmiget123 16:35, 27 February 2012 (UTC)
Okay. |) u |( e ® 19:32, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

Those other 4 Sages in BW2

I know you find and battle Ghetsis, Zinzolin, and Rood as part of the storyline, and you encounter Gorm in Pinwheel Forest. But, what about the others? Mysterious Ivysaur (talk) 17:09, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

Never seen nor mentioned. They're still referred to as the Seven Sages though. Bluesun (talk) 17:37, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

I actually noticed that, after beating Hugh in Undella Town in the post game, one of the sages walks up, talks for a bit, and then stays there. I can't tell which one it is. He wears a somewhat bright purple cloak, and has white/light gray hair. Can anyone confirm who this guy is. Schiffy (talk) 03:42, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Zinzolin. --The Great Butler (talk) 04:16, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Really? If so, then he's wearing a sage outfit from the original games, plus his hair is a lot whiter. I also noticed that after meeting some requirement, (probably exploring the Abyssal Ruins), he'll give you a Big Pearl and take his leave. Schiffy (talk) 04:27, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Separate pages

Should we create separate pages for Rood and Zinzolin? After all, they are a bit more important in Pokémon Black 2 and White 2 than the other 4 sages. Alishere (talk) 23:47, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

I'd say no for Rood because his role is still very minor, but I think Zinzolin could get a page, since he is essentially an Executive/Commander-level member now. --The Great Butler (talk) 00:57, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
Sorry to double-reply, but Zinzolin has official art, so I would now strongly say yes for him. --The Great Butler (talk) 04:12, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
Definitely. Zinzolin's BW role makes him split-worthy. --Maxim (talk) 08:19, 15 July 2012 (UTC)
I think it would make things much easier if they were all split. However, I would say both Zinzolin and Rood definitely deserve their own articles. --SnorlaxMonster 08:36, 15 July 2012 (UTC)
I agree with both, just noticed that Zizolin's article was made, Rood also desereves his own article because he's basically the head of the Old Team Plasma while they are waiting for N to return.XXSuperXXNintendoXx (talk) 03:33, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
Rood may be battled only once, but his role is not minor at all. As soon as we have his quotes in B2W2, he should have his article.
And this page should treat Zinzolin an Rood as it treats Ghetsis. Therefore their quotes, the Pokémon they use (in any media), and their names in other languages should be moved from this article to their own. |) u |( e ® 13:07, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

Gorm, Bronius, Giallo, Ryoku

I think they could have their own pages as well. Ghetsis, Rood, and Zinzolin all had roles major enough to get their own pages, but the other sages are still important characters. The page has gotten quite messy due to the splitting of two of the sages, and it would make the page much cleaner and more consistent to have all of the sages have their own pages. --SnorlaxMonster 04:36, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

This page looks more like "Four Sages", the way it is now. Splitting this page is really necessary. |) u |( e ® 11:13, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
I agree with this motion. Pikachu127 (talk) 20:18, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
The page looks cluttered as is. I think splitting it would be the best option in this point. --Pokemaster97 22:26, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
I also agree. This page is very confusing the way it is now, splitting it would make things much clearer. --Mikuri 15:24, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
I agree too. This page is really confusing and much more when trying to compare the Sages, like in the Name origin section, for example. I through since a lot of time ago that there should be a separated page for each one because they all have different roles as well. Maybe we should keep "Seven Sages", as a disambiguation and/or an article with less information regarding the entire group, so we don't have to lost things like the Sprites and game data box. --Gabo 2oo (talk) 19:05, 25 December 2012 (UTC)
I agree as well. At the very least, if we decide to keep them all on one page, we should sort sections by Sage and then by subsection (quotes, trivia, etc). It's really bothersome to find all the information on a given Sage the way it is. Yamiidenryuu (talk) 02:27, 26 December 2012 (UTC)