Talk:Elite Four

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Where are the sprites of Will and Karen from? Rahin 19:00, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Probably Pie. TinaTheKirlia ♥ 01:38, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
No, they're from Exotorchic (I apologize if I misspelled that). --Shiny NoctowlTalk|Contribs 01:42, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
Ah. ^^; TinaTheKirlia ♥ 01:44, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
But aren't they fake? Rahin 19:00, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
Better than the older G/S sprites, I think. Sure it's fake, but it blends in better with the two FR/LG sprites. Besides, the older G/S ones are a little... low on the colors. TinaTheKirlia ♥ 20:33, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
That's true RahinTalk 21:14, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Wait, those sprites are by Coronis. They're from's manga bios section. I hope we have permission to use them... --Manga-in-a-bottle 21:25, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

I don't see why we're using the FR/LG sprites (and some fan-made ones as well) in the GSC section when we use the game-specific sprites in every other trainer class. IIMarckus 04:31, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Type relationships

Dark - Ghost - Ice - Dragon = Dark beats Ghost, Ghost doesn't beat any type here or is resistant to any, Ice beats Dragon, Dragon does not have a type advantage

Bug - Ground - Fire - Psychic = Bug beats Psychic, Ground beats Fire, Fire beats Bug, Psychic has no advantage.

So technically, if Generation III has a missing link (Ghost and Ice), and considering Generation IV does not have a consistent relationship (i.e. the type before beats the previous or the type after beats next type) and also has a missing link (Psychic)then shouldn't both Generations' Elite Fours' types be considered to have a relationship? They're both pretty loose relationships. - unsigned comment from Evvy (talkcontribs)

Needs to be less ambiguous

From the article:

This needs to be made clearer. If by "different type" it means "not one consistent type", then Emerald shouldn't be included, but all of the Kanto and Sinnoh games should. I can't see any meaning of the phrase which would only include the Hoenn games and nothing else. But I'm posting it here before editing in case I've misunderstood. Flicky1991 19:31, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Lance's Deviation from Dragon-types.

In Generation II, Lance has a Charizard (Fire/Flying-type) even though he is a Dragon-type trainer. I added that to the Trivia. Sting the Trainer 22:37, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Due to the lack of X-type Pokemon, the Generation II Elite Four often has Y-type Pokemon with X-type characteristics. See whats-her-face and the Vileplume, and Bruno with half of his. — THE TROM — 22:51, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Still, Lance's speciality in G/S/C is undenably FLYING. His ENTIRE TEAM is made of Flying types. If they wanted him to be Dragon, they could have given him a Dragonair or a Kingdra in place of one of his Dragonite Trio.Raikaria 09:02, 14 April 2011 (UTC)


I seem to notice that Pokémon Crystal's the only game not mentioned on the Generation II and IV section for the Johto Elite Four. -Tyler53841 16:38, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

It is now. Diablocon 17:25, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Challenge Sprites

For Generation I elite four members, we don't have any challenge sprites for them, because the game hasn't provided them yet. But can't we use Lance's, Bruno's, and Blue's challenge sprites from Generation IV? ----Zewis29 (Talk, Contribs) 17:00, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

No. That would be messy because not all Generation I E4s have the sprite. The VS sprites also show them three years older. —darklordtrom 01:16, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
It makes sense when you put it like that... Let's hope that they re-remake them so it doesn't look weird...----Zewis (29) 15:31, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

(Trainer class)

I don't think we need that. They're more than a trainer class. CuboneKing 22:49, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, some pages got moved in the excitement of it all. —darklordtrom 08:51, 27 August 2010 (UTC)


We'll, technically there's no correct order. So, shouldn't we make their sequence something randomly generated? - Taylor 02:06, 29 September 2010 (UTC)


"Of all 17 elemental types, each type has been represented by an Elite Four member or Champion with the exception of the Electric-type. " This misinformation is so bizarre that I didn't want to delete it, as someone must have a reason to believe it. Normal? Rock? Grass? Am I misunderstanding this? Colintron 14:56, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Flint has a Lopunny, Bruno has an Onix, and Cynthia has a Roserade.

Even so, the trivia's wrong. Blue can have Jolteon in Yellow.--Cold (talk) 14:59, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

OH, 'represented' in that fashion. I thought it meant as the leader's favoured type. I'd suggest we improve the wording, but the Jolteon thing trumps it anyway. Colintron 15:05, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Psuedo-legendary Pokémon

Is it worth noting that the Isshu Elite Four/Champion is the only one not to use a psuedo-legendary Pokémon anywhere in their parties on the first battle? --Nebula 01:43, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Do we need...?

First, do we really need the Pokémon list for each member? And the Japanese name? (Except for the Isshu ones for now, of course.) It's information that's better suited for each character's individual page (and of course it's already there), and it just seems to serve as a way to make the tables bigger so they don't look too thin on the page. I suggest we just drop both of those and leave only sprite,( English) name, and specialty type, and make the tables horizontal (sort of like the templates we already use, but with the type). Less trivially, should we include the Champions here? AFAIK they're not actually members of the Elite Four, and they do have their own page...s (We should do something about that too.) --Memo326 23:49, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

What's wrong with their original names being there? Ataro 23:59, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
I agree with both Memo and Ataro, I think that we should drop the Pokemon Lists (sprites) for each member, as they are just taking up space. However, I think that we should leave the Japanese names there. The games originate in Japan, so having their Japanese (original) names there is important. Also I think that we should include the Champions here, as they need to be battled to defeat the game, and are therefore, honorary members of the Elite Four (and sometimes former members of the Elite Four). So in closing, I think that we should include their Sprite, Japanese Name, English Name, and Specialty Type. --JediKnightDTV 00:12, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
Not taking either side here, but some people just type in "Elite Four" when looking for information and trying to beat their game. The party lists save them the trouble of clicking to get to the individual pages.--Cold (talk) 00:16, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

gen v rematch addons

in the rematches vs the isshu elite four, they each get one gen iii pokémon and one gen iv pokémon, with the exception of shikimi who has frosslass (which is from a gen iii family) instead. also pre-rematch rembu's team is all pure fighting, that's a first right? Kanjo 13:53, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

Froslass counts as Gen IV, so that trivia can be added. However, Renbu's trivia can go on his own page. --SnorlaxMonster 08:03, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Gen V Elite Four Trivia

Let's take the numbers of previous Elites who used the types used in Gen V, in order of appearance:

Ghost- Agatha (third) and Phoebe (second) 3+2=5

Dark- Karen (fourth) and Sidney (first) 4+1=5

Psychic- Will (first) and Lucian (fourth) 1+4=5

Fighting- Bruno (second) and Bruno again (third) 2+3=5

All of them sum up to 5. Fifth generation.

Is this enough to appear in trivia?--Saxton Hale 22:57, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

You make no sense. Agatha is the third what? Phoebe is the second what? You need to be more specific. --HoennMaster 00:18, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
Order of appearance in the Elite 4, it makes sense. Miscs 11:48, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
That is interesting. I think that it could be added, as long as it is explained clearer than you did there (see HoennMaster's confusion). --SnorlaxMonster 08:03, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Inconsistancy Between Steven and Alder

Steven's speciality is listed as Steel. He has a team of 6, and only 3 are Steel Types.

Alder is listed as Various. He has a Team of 6, and 3 are Bugs.

Notice the inconsistancy here? Either Steven should be listed as Various, or Alder should be listed as Bug.Raikaria 09:01, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Steven specializing in Steel-type Pokémon is openly stated (for example, see his Trainer's Eyes or Match Call). Alder is never stated to specialize in Bug-type Pokémon. Also, not that it really affects anything, but as a tag partner Steven only uses Steel-type Pokémon. --SnorlaxMonster 10:37, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Unova Elite Four order

The current ordering we have appears to be from left to right. But it is unofficial, and the closest thing to an official ordering is the order described on the statue at the Pokemon League (which goes Shauntal, Marshall, Grimsley, then Caitlin. Shouldnt this one be used? XVuvuzela2010X 17:09, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, I'd follow the order listed on the statue. Han Ji-Wan 17:12, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
This elite four has no particular order so why does it matter. Besides I think it's listed in this order because the official game guide lists the elite four in that order (Shantal, Grimsley, Caitlin, and Marshall). So I think the way it is is fine. --Pokemaster97 17:53, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
Completely in favour of this. Also, apparently that is the order they are in internally as well. --SnorlaxMonster 11:38, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
Bringing this up again, I've changed this page, but I'll need someone edit the Unova E4 template (its protected). Vuvuzela2010 17:08, 9 October 2011 (UTC)


I think that Alder's type should be Bug and Various Because he has three Bug-type Pokémon, we can deduce it as a preference. User:Igor Castro Chucre

See two sections above. --SnorlaxMonster 14:12, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

Champions are Elite Four members?

"The Elite Four (Japanese: 四天王 Four Heavenly Kings) are four Pokémon Trainers who are regarded as the toughest in their regional Pokémon League,..."

Then why are the Champions included here? They're not part of the Elite Four nor are they members. We should say that Elite Four members must be defeated before facing the Pokemon League champion of each region. They we could put the Pokemon that they used on the Pokémon Champion article.Blueknightex 08:15, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

They may not be Elite Four per say, but they do head the Pokemon League and are battled directly after the Elite Four, so they are pretty much Elite Four in everything but name. Besides people are going to go to the Elite Four page and expect to be able to see each league's Champion. Trying to change this now on a technicality seems foolish and unnecessary. CoolDudeAl 22:51, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

How do they head the Pokemon League? Is it said in the Manga or anime that they head them?
"Besides people are going to go to the Elite Four page and expect to be able to see each league's Champion"
- But isn't this site an encyclopedia? Not a strategy guide or anything? So who cares what people want to see. The information listed should at least be accurate. Its not foolish and unnecessary when this site should be aiming to be more resourceful as an online encyclopedia. Blueknightex 00:43, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

I see that the other editors have finally made changes on this page. Thank you :) Blueknightex 00:49, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

If you think people come here to seek encyclopedic knowledge on the subject of Pokemon, your sadly mistaken. I've yet to see anyone write a dissertation on Pokemon to earn a masters or doctoral degree. People come here because they like Pokemon and they are seeking information to help them with the games. Why do you think we list all the Pokemon's moves and what level they learn them. That information would be considered too detailed, even for a specialized encyclopedia. It is done because it is useful to people who are trying to get help with the game. So in a way, yes, this site should function as a strategy guide. Here's an idea that makes everybody happy, why don't we just combine the Elite Four and Champion pages, they make more sense together than apart anyway. CoolDudeAl 16:17, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

Regardless of your false assumptions of why people come to Bulbapedia, it is an encyclopedia and should be treated as such. Yes, many people do use Bulbapedia as a game guide (I have myself), but that is not to say it is the only use. Here is where we keep the strategy guides. Not only that, but this page is not supposed to be a game guide at all; all info except what Pokémon they own is not on this page, and is instead on the article for the games' Pokémon League building. If we were purely a game guide, why would we even bother putting up anime and manga information? Claiming that we go into too much detail is rediculous; an encyclopedia, especially a non-paper one which can afford to be, should be as comprehensive as possible, and Bulbapedia's existance and level of detail proves that there are encyclopedias with information that detailed. You seem to think encyclopedias have a direct connection to Masters' Degrees and Doctorates, but let me provide you with its definition: "A comprehensive reference work with articles on a range of subjects." This is no way implies any link to such degrees. And no, putting Champion and Elite Four together would not make sense, because they are two very separate classes. --SnorlaxMonster 14:07, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

Champion/Elite Four thoughts

Champions may not technically be Elite Four members, but should still be one the page as they are battled directly after the Elite Four and are an Elite Four Member in everything but name. Lance even moved up from the final Elite Four member to Champion from Red/Blue to Gold/Silver. Thus, they should be on the page. CoolDudeAl 23:04, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

I beg to differ. The Champion has been isolated from the Elite Four in the games so we should treat it as such. This statement is supported from a quote by Lucian Congratulations. You have beaten the Elite Four.. Several other final Elite Four members have said quotes along those lines as well. Just because the champion is battled directly after, it does not mean it should be included here. That's what the Champion page is for. --Pokemaster97 23:35, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
Wallace also moved from Gym Leader to Champion. |) u |( e ® 03:11, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

Too much info on this page?

Now that we're talking about this being an encyclopedia and not a game guide and all (see the last comment two sections above)... Don't you think we shouldn't list each individual member's team? Their Pokémon don't give any info on what "Elite Four" is or who is a member, unlike their name, images and specialty type. It is true that other trainer class pages show each "member"'s team but that is okay given that each, say, Hiker, doesn't have his own page, unlike each Elite Four member. My point is, given that too much info clutters the page, we should give the basics (since the details are present, in each member's page) only, which IMO include name, sprite, and specialty type, for each Elite Four member, maybe in a stylized table similar to the current League templates (excluding the Champion, of course). What do you think? Memo326 00:20, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

IMO, it's fine. It just shows what Pokémon they use (the MS sprites) not what level/type they are and their movesets. So I think its fine the way it is.--ForceFire 03:37, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
Actually, putting their teams on this page keeps it in line with Hiker. Because this page is for the Trainer class Elite Four, like how Hiker is a page for the Trainer class Hiker, there should be a list of teams on it. Hiker does the exact same thing, with the exact same level of detail. --SnorlaxMonster 08:16, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

VS Sprites

Should we remove the VS Sprites and just use the regular battle sprites? It looks weird having Kanto & Hoenn with regular battle sprites and Johto, Sinnoh & Unova with VS Sprites. Sure RS Remakes will probably give the Hoenn Elite Four VS Sprites, but the Kanto Elite Four would still have battle sprites. Torpoleon (talk) 22:04, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

  • This is the exact same discussion I started on the Gym Leader page. Maybe you should read that duscission first before starting one again. It's called 'Why VS sprites?'. Nickvang (talk) 19:18, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
The difference is that in this case we had 40% of battle sprites and 60% VS, not only 1 region. And the GL page looks good with the Gen V sprites of Hoenn. Everything is fine. |) u |( e ® 19:27, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
Great, but could somebody replace Lucian's sprite? It is his DP sprite, so it has too short hair. Maybe a motionless Pt sprite can be used? Nickvang (talk) 19:34, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
So, should we also update the pages on the regions with the battle sprites instead of VS Sprites (at least for Kanto and the time being, Hoenn)? Each of the 5 pages on the 5 regions shows the Gym Leaders, E4 & Champion, so maybe they should see this change. Torpoleon (talk) 22:46, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

Names of Pokemon Leagues in Sinnoh and Unova

Would the names for the sinnoh and Unova Pokemon Leagues be the same as in the anime, so the:

I thought Agatha used pioson Pokémon

I saw the type of Pokémon Agatha used was ghost on this page, but she uses all poison type Pokémon (with the exception of misdreavus). So I wish this could be changed to poison instead, but if she said she used ghost then it should stay the same. Agatha uses duel ghost/poison so maybe that is why she may say so or why it says so here? --Ethan7 (talk) 16:13, 28 November 2013 (UTC)

Uhm.... it has always been Agatha's official type. That she uses Arbok and Golbat is because of the limited availability of Ghost Pokémon in Gen I (and this carried over in Gen III, although they added Misdreavus in her rematch). Some Elite Four members use Pokémon not of their official type, as Bruno uses Onix and Lance uses Charizard, Aerodactyl and Gyarados. ☼ BlazingFist ☼ 16:17, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
Yes, but Gengar and Haunter are also poison types.--Ethan7 (talk) 21:14, 29 November 2013 (UTC)
The point is that her official type is the Ghost type regardless of the amount of Poison types she uses. --It's Funktastic~!話してください 21:17, 29 November 2013 (UTC)
Indeed, and if you need proof, here's a Fame Checker quote directly taken from FireRed/Leaf Green: "Agatha's Ghost-type Pokémon are horrifically terrifying in toughness." ☼ BlazingFist ☼ 21:21, 29 November 2013 (UTC)
That what I was wondering. if she said she used ghost Pokémon, then she it should say so on the page.--Ethan7 (talk) 21:24, 29 November 2013 (UTC)

Removing my posts

Who keeps removing my posts? Ash met Diantha in episode 28 of the XY series. It has aired in the US. I mean, what? Does Ash have to have battled an Elite Four member for them to be listed? If that's the case (and if so, that's disturbing), then Bruno, Lance, Lucian, Aaron, and Caitlin need to be removed from that list. Ash has only battled (and lost) against Agatha, Lorelei/Prima, Drake, Flint. Sure, he defeated Koga, but Koga was a gym leader at the time, not an Elite Four member. So in all sincerity: who keeps removing my posts and why?! WATERWarrior67 01:50, 15 October 2015 (UTC)

Diantha is a Champion, not an Elite Four member, as I stated in the edit summary. Lance is included because he was both, but Steven, Cynthia, Alder/Iris are all not listed for the same reason. --Abcboy (talk) 02:22, 15 October 2015 (UTC)

Can I please have a 3rd opinion on Agatha's all Poison team for trivia?

Note: I'm not trying to start a fight, I just want a 3rd vote to break the tie. That is all. Unowninator (talk) 17:51, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

It's really not necessary, and anyways, the trivia is already on Agatha's page. --Carmen (Talk | contribs) 17:57, 5 March 2016 (UTC)