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Talk:Damage modification

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About critical hits

Years ago, I remember reading that critical hits inflicted double the base damage of an attack regardless of stat modifications in Generation I. I also remember reading that this rule didn't apply in Generation II and that critical hits did consider stat modifications, like this article says.

Now, empirically, I'm convinced that, in Generations III and IV, critical hits don't take stat modifications into account (at least Defense and Special Defense), contrary to what is stated in this article. Even a Battle CD in Pokémon XD: Gale of Darkness focuses on the advantages of critical-hit moves when the opponent has a huge Defense stat.

What's the truth? BTW I can't happen to find the article with the damage formula right now :S --Johans 04:30, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

I tend to agree. I've often hit a Pokemon for less than half of its HP then killed it in one shot with a Critical Hit from full HP. --ZellMurasame 22:40, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2Kx9gdei-Y At about 6:50 you see a Snorlax with 4 or 5 Curses take like 50 damage form Earthquake and about 30 from Stone Edge... with a 240 damage critical between them. I think this is proof enough to remove any doubt of critical hits ignoring Defense and Special Defense boosts of the opponent. --ZellMurasame 22:26, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
It does say that it uses the stats that benifit the attacker. Therefore, defence and special defence boosts would be ignored, while lowering of these stats would be taken into account, right?

The critical hit chart doesn't say anything about Focus Energy. Wouldn't Focus Energy thus bring maximum critical chance over 50%? Mageslayer

Anime

In the anime would a direct hit be equivalent to a critical hit in the games? Coz a lot of times they comment on how much damage the move did becoz it was a direct hit.--Wowy 07:25, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Problem with article

From STAB "commonly abbreviated as STAB, is a 50% boost to an attack's power when the attack's type is the same as one of the types of the Pokémon using the attack" but in the Damage modification article, it says stab does 150% damage. Which is which? Please fix. Penubag 04:24, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Answered here. - s.Combusken 04:29, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Critical Hit Ratios

What happens if you hack a Farfetc'd to have Super Luck (unless it's the opponent that needs to have it-then just battle sum1 that has it), use Focus Energy, and attach /Stick, than attack with, say, Slash? Doesn't that do this: Step 1: Slash - Level 2 Step 2: Focus Energy - +1 = Level 3 Step 3: Super Luck - *2 = Level 6 Step 4: Stick - +2 = Level 8 Farfetch'd DOES learn Slash, right? Me and my fellow torchics agree on this - Sk8torchic. 21:03, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

According to the article, you can have crit-ratios more than 50% without cheating.What if a battle going on like this:

1/Farfetc'd use Focus Energy --> +1 = Level 2 2/Farfetc'd use Slash --> +1 = Level 3 3/Chansey: Skill Swap with Absol --> Super Luck 4/Chansey: Skill Swap with Farfetc'd --> Farfetc'd + Super Luck *2 = Level 6 5/Farfetc'd holding Stick --> +2 = Level 8 This should create maximum crit-ratios at level 8.A bit calculation...about 62.5% to 75% crit chance, but also require 'super luck' to complete all these steps.--Salamence 05:27, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Under slightly less exhaustive circumstances, what if a Pokémon uses Focus Energy, then Baton Passes it off to an Absol with Super Luck and holding a Scope Lens who executes something like Slash? If that makes a total of +6 stages, does it yield a 100% critical hit rate? --Stratelier 19:23, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
All ratios are limited to 50%. Though it may be trivia worthy that +8 is obtainable. (Baton passed Focus Energy;Dire Hit;Stick;Super Luck;Increased Ratio). @Salamence:Super Luck is +1 not x2 Mattrules161 20:27, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Focus Energy

I'm reading contradictory information. On the Focus Energy page, it says that Focus Energy quadruples the chance of getting a critical hit. Here it says that Focus Energy increases the chance by one stage. If it quadruples the chance, then it increases it from stage 1 to stage 3 or from stage 2 to stage 5. If it increases it by one stage, then it has considerably less of an effect. Furthermore, neither here nor on the Focus Energy page nor on the Super Luck page is it explained how Super Luck interacts with Focus Energy. For the sake of completeness and accuracy, these questions should be answered. Yenreb 22:13, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Type effectiveness

The article sais "Likewise, a Normal/Flying Pokémon hit by a Fighting-type move will be damaged normally, as the super-effectiveness of Fighting against Normal is canceled out by the not-very-effectiveness of Fighting against Flying." It doesn't seem to be true in Generation 1, a fighting move isn't really effective against a Normal/Flying Pokémon. A poison move isn't really effective against Bulbasaur, but a ground move is super effective, so I think that in Generation 1, if a move is both super effective and not very effective, only the 2nd type of attacked Pokémon will matter. (I'm sorry for my bad English, I'm French)

That's actually a bug, it will say that it is not very effective, but it does full damage. Whitsoxrule (talk) 01:15, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

You did fine, but sign comments. (You use four of these -> ~ ) Poisson14 05:41, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Meh

Is it critical hit, or critical-hit? In-game battle text says critical-hit, but everywhere on here it says critical hit. The difference is that hyphen. R.A. Hunter Blade 13:52, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Where does it have the hyphen in the game? When I play it, it always says "critical hit" without the hyphen. Ztobor 20:54, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Another Combo

I really would like the numbers calculated for this, & it'd be nice if it was in the box under "Critical hit", since I didn't notice this combination there. What if you combine moves with a high critical-hit ratio with Super Luck & a Razor Claw/Scope Lens? SamuraiFTW 20:12, 21 November 2010 (UTC)SamuraiFTW

Maximum possible damage

I'd like to put a piece of trivia on the page, about there being contests out there about what attack setup can theoretically do the most possible damage.

Does anybody have any suggestions? I've seen 10-digit damage figures out there. Ztobor 21:38, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Here goes this example from TVTropes:

A Level 100 Shuckle, holding a Metronome, has the following stats:

Attack: 35 Defense: 614

It has used Defense Curl six times, raising its Defense to four times its normal level, and then it has acquired a Power Swap from another Pokémon using Baton Pass. It has also used Skill Swap, and exchanged abilities with its opponent, who has Pure Power. Its stats are now as follows:

Attack: 4912
Defense: 35

Additionally, it is in a double battle, the weather is sunny, and its partner has Flower Gift, changing its stats as follows:

Attack: 7368
Defense: 35

Its partner then uses Helping Hand, preparing for the attack.

The Shuckle then proceeds to get a critical hit on Rollout, having used it four times already, against a level 1 Ledyba, with the following stats:

Attack: 6
Defense: 4

This Ledyba has had Screech used on it three times, making its stats as follows:

Attack: 6
Defense: 1

Shuckle receives STAB on Rollout, being Bug/Rock. Because Ledyba is Bug/Flying, Type = 4 because it is has a double weakness. Also, the Metronome gives other a multiplier of 1.4, this being the fifth hit of Rollout.

Maxdamage 01.png

Because Shuckle used Defense Curl, Rollout has a base power of 960. Because of its partner using Helping Hand, this power is further increased to 1440.

Maxdamage 02.png Maxdamage 03.png

This attack could do up to almost 150 million damage, which is more than enough to take the Ledyba out in one hit.

The actual example on the TVTropes page assumes other = 2 for eleven Metronome hits >_>

Ztobor 22:18, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Shuckle's trivia section already shows how it can deal 213,896,052 damage in one hit. —Minimiscience 22:28, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
And that would be the example on TVTropes that I'm talking about >_>
It's the formula that I'm concerned about.Ztobor 18:18, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

Critical hits in Gen I

If I'm not mistaken, wasn't the critical hit ratio of moves such as Razor Leaf and Slash a lot more boosted than in subsequent generations? I've heard of this being the case, and it seems to be that way for me from personal experience (in fact, regular hits using these moves seem more rare than critical hits when I'm using them in Blue Version). Any way to fact-check this/add it to the article? Frezgle 10:04, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Calculation

Anyone know good calculation web?I want to calculate damage of Empoleon with highest special attack possible,torrent activate and the weather is raining using Hydro Cannon.Meearaimeng 15:43, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Every little bit...

I've always wondered how much difference a single point in a stat makes. Is there any real significant difference between a pokemon with an attack of 190 and one with an attack of 191 (assuming the opponent has the same Defence)? And how much difference does it make if the attack goes to 192? 193? 194? Does an extra point of attack mean little to no change in the damage caused, or can it mean the difference between doing 30 damage and doing 40? Legionaireb 17:58, 23 April 2011 (UTC)


The difference will be small, but much greater for pokemon with low attack. The difference multiplier is New/Old , so with high damage (e.g. 200) with the old attack (let's say 100) it will cause 2 more damage per attack point. With full EVs being worth 63 points (252/4) that could mean an extra 126 damage on this pokemon. At 200 attack , the difference would be 1 damage per point(assuming 200 damage), but the 63 extra could be the difference in crucial battle. Mattrules161 20:14, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

Regarding "Not Effective"...

Status moves being affected by elemental type matchups are actually the exception, not the rule: The majority of status moves are Normal-type and function perfectly well on Ghost-types; Confuse Ray works on Normals, Sand Attack on Flying-types, and so on. Thunder Wave's inability to affect Ground types is somewhat unique: There are only three Electric-type status moves, and it's the only one of which that targets an opponent.

--Stratelier 19:12, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

How can you plug in for the opponent's Attack, Special Attack, Defense, and Special Defense stat

Say an attack is given ONLY a certain amount of damage to the opponent and it must do a certain amount before it can knock out an opponent. My question is or my suggestion is that there should be a backup formula to plug in for an opponent's Attack and Special Attack when you take damage from them and an opponent's Defense and Special Defense when they take damage from you.

In the beginning of Pokemon XD for example there's a Battle Sim battle that only happens once in the game with a Salemence vs a Metagross and the most damage I saw the Earthquake do to Metagross was 83. It's hard to determine the most damage Sludge Bomb does on Salamence because I haven't seen it and I believe Salemence's Attack is 190 and the power of Earthquake as it's listed here is 100. When I tried to use the same formula to plug in for Metagross's Defense like this it didn't come out right so is there a way to plug in for other stats which aren't so obvious? (MichaelXD 19:11, 24 February 2012 (UTC))

Critical hit calculation

I was trying to catch an rare pokemon, when the foes health is about 1/3. i save stated the game, to prevent fainting before it can be catched, when my serpentine launches an attack, it did trigger a critical. when i loaded my save state which i made, i attacked the foe, and it results as an constitusive criticals. This happens in gen V

Dunno, maybe its linked with something illegal (an emulator/flashcart is needed to make an savestate) but i can provide an evidence about this Bugmenot 08:40, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

If you're loading a save state, it's going back to exactly as it was when you saved, including the pseudorandom numbers. Since the games aren't designed to be saved mid-battle, there's nothing to change the set of numbers in the queue, and so it always outputs the same numbers. If you load from a standard game save, there's (usually - it's a little bugged in a few games) a point as it loads that changes the pseudorandom numbergeneration seed (the 'start point' in the hypothetical list that it has) and thus you get a different outcome. Werdnae (talk) 09:06, 5 March 2012 (UTC)
Eh, close. In recent games, the RNG the game uses for battle decisions only is advanced when it is needed to; in the GBA era it advances without purpose every frame to try and make the number stream more random. No bugs :) Kaphotics (talk) 04:21, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Status Enhancing Moves "Critical"?

I'm not sure if this is common knowledge, and I've tried searching for information regarding this with no luck. But I've noticed on several occasions that, Specifically with Sword Dance, it would "Drastically" Raise attack (3 Stages) instead of "Sharply" (2 stages), a "Critical hit" of sorts for status raising moves. I've searched here for any information, both on Critical hits page, as well as on the discussion pages of Sword dance and here, not seeing any mention of its existance. Also tried my hand at google to no avail. For what its worth, Move as stated above was Sword Dance, and Haxorus was the one using it. Anyone else experience this? Is it common knowledge? - Karbuncle

Had this Haxorus been hit by Simple Beam? Because the only reason I can think of for that happening would be if the Pokémon's Ability was Simple. --SnorlaxMonster 04:12, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
it very well could have been. I'm going to try and recreate this instance. I had noticed it only happened every so often, not every single time... Sounds like simple would make it happen each time. I'll check it out, But this may be the case as I did fight a pokemon that used it a couple times - user:karbuncle

Hitting sound

I don't see it mentioned anywhere, but just for those who haven't noticed yet, since Gen I, hitting sound for attacks vary depending on effectiveness. I just say this because the sound effects used in Generation III have become the default up to Gen VI (as I can note from the trailers). And of course, if you cannot tell the difference, normal-effectiveness has a default hitting sound, super-effective attacks have a long reverb added to it and resisted attacks have a dull sound. hfc2X 09:13, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Other

So, if my Fire-type move has a Flame Plate and affected by Shining Day, its "other" = (1.2 x 1.5) or = (1.2 + 1.5)?--Magicknight94 (talk) 12:06, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Zero damage.

Checked G1 and G2, couldn't drop below 1 even with 383 Def. Cloyster + Barrier + Reflect. Funny thing is how Barrier says "Derpmon's Defense went way up!" and Barrier says "Derpmon's Defense rose!" in G2.

Then checked G3 with Shuckle (since couldn't do that with Def. Deoxys... what?), still can't go below 1 even with that awesome 614 + other Pokémon's Reflect. Not sure about G4, though. 0 damage might be G4 or G5 addition. Marked +-+-+ (talk) 15:47, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Internal rounding errors - trivia?

According to a few pages on Smogon, the internal damage calculations performed in-game are rounded down to whole numbers at various steps before arriving the final value, which introduces small errors in the expected value of the result.

In particular, it is implied that damage is rounded down to a whole number before applying type effectiveness and before applying STAB. Meaning that a 2x SE attack will always deal an exact multiple of 2, while a 4x SE attack will always deal an exact multiple of 4. (Is this mention-worthy?)

As a quick single case study, in my White 1 game I caught a Lv.22 Swadloon in Pinwheel Forest and then hunted up some wild Pidove on Unova Route 3. During the ensuing (and very long) battle I did nothing but record how much damage a (Lv.8) Pidove's Gust did against Swadloon. Out of 35 Gusts, about 30 of them hit for exactly 4 points damage (never more, never less). Two or three of them hit Swadloon for exactly 16 points damage (and were not critical hits). Another one was a critical hit and dealt 24 points damage. Interestingly, my Swadloon was never hit for exactly 8 or 12 points damage, only ever 4 or 16. (Which is not consistent with even Smogon's damage calculators.) --Stratelier 04:12, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

extra damage

I have been wondering for a while what the multiplyer would be for a move used on a pokemon with a 4x weakness to that move type that also got the same type attack bonus? Just asking if it adds the multiplyers to make 6x of if it multiplys them to make it 8x the damage. - unsigned comment from Froslass fanatic (talkcontribs)

It would just be 4x for supereffective damage * 1.5 for STAB, so 6x. -- EnosShayremtalk 04:53, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

Merge with Damage

I suspect half the reason the merge template is on this page is because the damage formula was on this page. But that should never have been; probably anyone would expect the damage formula to be on the damage page, not here.

Before I moved the formula, the damage page was basically worthless: an intro line and an abbreviated "Damage modification" section. The fact is, this page (with the formula) basically should have been "Damage" (give or take very minor restructuring).

As the Damage page currently stands (with the formula), some of the variables would still do best if they were on the same page (e.g., "Double Battle" only appears in the formula section; it'd be nice if its value(s) were on the same page). And merging the remainder of this page into the "Damage modification" section of that page would make it no longer than this page was before I moved the formula, so length shouldn't really be an issue. In short, I support wholly merging this page into Damage. Tiddlywinks (talk) 21:43, 13 April 2014 (UTC)

The modification factors on damage modification are crucial to calculating damage anyway. Individual factors having their own page is reasonable (e.g. critical hit), but we don't need a separate page to list all of them; the damage page would be a far better place for that. --SnorlaxMonster 07:36, 14 April 2014 (UTC)