Template talk:First partner trios

This DEFINITELY needs updating. Anyone?--Mew a.k.a. Prmatt11 at 00:55, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

It's on my todo list. — THE TROM — 01:02, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Rattata

In Melee! Pokémon Scramble!, Rattata is your starter. Can anyone update with this? Missingno. Master says: The Celebi Glitch is real!(talk page) 01:05, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

XD

Why does it list Jolteon, Flareon, Vaporeon, Umbreon, and Espeon in the XD starters section? The only starter is Eevee. Infernape, Sceptile, Feraligatr or anything like that aren't listed! Could an admin take it off? --CUBONE PWNS (Planet Cubone • Bone Club) THE VERY BEST PAGE! 21:36, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

That'd be my fault. I never played that game. —darklordtrom 22:34, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm inclined to dispute this: You get one battle with Eevee and very soon after you are forced to choose its evolution. (And why can't we have the evolved forms of the traditional starters anyway?) --FabuVinny ^{|Talk Page|} 01:55, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Generation V

I reckon that the Gen V starters should be included, now that we know the region's name. CorporalStone 18:55, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, although could it be we're waiting for the US names?--Black Yin Zekrom 04:44, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Or we could be lazy and forgetful. This template could do with a revamp, though. It's officially on my todo list unless someone else gets there first. —darklordtrom 05:30, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

(holds up hands) Don't look at me; I don't have the technical know-how.--Black Yin Zekrom 05:33, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Wrong sprite

In the Mystery Dungeon section. It should be Skitty but now it's showing Delcatty. --Lorem of ipsums 11:30, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, didn't see that. —darklordtrom 11:33, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Missing

This template is missing MD SBL Adventure Squad starters. It's Turtwig A! My talk or wiki edits 00:24, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Which ones are missing? I used the Pokémon Mystery Dungeon (WiiWare) page when I made this template. They have a ^St, ^Bl or ^L tag depending on the game they are a starter in according to that page. Werdnae (talk) 00:53, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

That was weird. When I viewed this earlier, they were missing. Now, when I looked again, they appeared. It's Turtwig A! My talk or wiki edits 00:55, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Pokémon Rumble Blast

In Pokémon Rumble Blast, Pikachu is your starter. Can anyone update with this? - Chosen of Mana 15:54, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

Also, changing every {{MS}} to {{MSP}} and removing (Pokémon) from them would reduce bytes significantly.--電禅Den Zen 16:15, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

Yep, needs updating.

Pikachu (Rumble Blast) needs to be added. Also, the "Any Eeveelution" text from XD can be removed, and Espeon and Umbreon from Colosseum don't need to be in two separate cells of the table. Bwburke94 18:42, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

Eevee shouldn't be listed

Only Pokémon that the player can have as a starter count as true starters, not NPCs' starters. Eevee is only the starter of Blue, who's a NPC, and thus shouldn't be included in the template. Otherwise we would have to include every Pokémon that was a NPC's starter (ie: Wally's Ralts). - Ericss (talk) 20:30, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Except that unlike Ralts, Eevee was supposed to be player's starter. If not the fact that rival snatched it, it would be player's. Marked +-+-+ (talk) 20:35, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

I fail to see the relevance in that. - Ericss (talk) 20:37, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Eevee remains here along with the evolutions due to Colosseum giving Espeon and Umbreon ans starters and XD gives Eevee as a starter. Hope that clears things up. :) Frozen Fennec 20:54, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

He means under the Yellow section. I agree. The player can not start with Eevee so it should not count as a starter Pokémon. ☆The Solar Dragon☆ 21:19, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Eevee is still technically a starter as your rival starts with it, and it was meant to be the player's starter and was given by Oak. Ralts was just caught in the wild and not given as a starter.--ForceFire 00:57, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

I was saying that. Guess I worded it poorly. Marked +-+-+ (talk) 08:20, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

Changes

Two topics:

• Should we remove the Pokémon from Mystery Dungeon, considering them as player characters?
• pikachu could be added to the Rumble series box, along with Rattata. |) u |( e ® 01:11, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

As much as it might be confusing to move the MD Pokémon, I would think that it needs to be kept the same unless the Player Characters template is also updated with images. (Otherwise, it would look very weird for a template.) Super goku (talk) 02:21, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Actually, we can add the MD characters to the player character template because they don't need their images shown on the player character template. Also, we need to remove the rumble section because they are now being called player characters. Iml908 (talk) 23:01, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Well, the problem comes from the number of blue links that would be added from PMD and Rumble to the template. (42-PMD/1-Rumble) In addition, the template currently has an indicator to show what game each Pokémon is available from in PMD. ("^S") Maybe it can be added to the template and everything will be alright, but I just do not want there to be any problems. Super goku (talk) 23:26, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

On my user page, I have a preview of a beta version of the new templates for the MD and Rumble characters in the player characters and the starter pokemon. Iml908 (talk) 00:03, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

Yep, I just saw it. I have a few comments, though. Besides a few issues with rounding corners, there is no visible way to see from it which Pokémon are available as a starter/playable character and which are not in each game. ("^S, again) Plus, Eevee (→ Any Eeveelution) might be used for Conquest and Eevee (→ Pre-Gen IV Eeveelution), or something that works, might be used for XD. Super goku (talk) 00:16, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

Like I said, the one on my page is just a beta, and if it is ever added to the mainspace, it will be changed to be better. Iml908 (talk) 01:16, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

As two games can't be considered a whole series, this is how I think this template could be:

Player characters Main series: Red • Leaf • Ethan • Kris • Lyra • Brendan • May Lucas • Dawn • Hilbert • Hilda • Kyouhei • Mei Orre-based games: Wes • Michael Ranger series: Lunick • Solana • Kellyn • Kate • Ben • Summer Mystery Dungeon series: Red Rescue Team and Blue Rescue Team Explorers of Time and Explorers of Darkness Explorers of the Sky • Wii Ware games Magnagate and the ∞ Labyrinth Other Spin-off games: Mark • Mint • Todd Snap • Lucy Fleetfoot Rattata • Pikachu • Hero • Heroine

|) u |( e ® 02:31, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

True, but I was making comments on what I saw. Sorry if I was being rude. I just saw a few things with it that might be different. (Plus, I do not think you would want me to mess with your Sandbox anyways.) Super goku (talk) 03:05, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

I don't know if Pikachu and Rattata should be listed there for Rumble. Those aren't the only Playable characters unlike the others, not to mention they don't actually have their own articles anyway. You could add this Pikachu though. ^★Jo the Marten^★ ಠ_ಠ♥ 03:10, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

Well, that might be the same to say for the PMD series as you can also control other Pokémon. By the end of this, we might be moving the PMD section back to Starter Pokémon. (There is Snivy, Tepig, and Oshawott from PokéPark as well) Super goku (talk) 03:35, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

In PMD, ou control other Pokémon, but they do not represent the player. And Rumble can be removed, IMO. |) u |( e ® 11:23, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

Snivy, Oshawott, and Tepig were not given their own pages though. I don't like putting them here if they don't actually have a separate page. I've considered giving them a page, but no one else agreed there was enough info on them. As for MD, I had forgotten you can play other Pokémon, but you can't do that until much much later into the game...so I dunno. I'll talk to Werdnae about it tomorrow when/if I get a chance. But the way they are now, I don't like MD being here, because (like I said earlier) they don't have their own page. We're simply linking to the MD pages. ^★Jo the Marten^★ ಠ_ಠ♥ 11:43, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

Ah, finally! Thank you, Jo! The only think that looks out of place is the (→ Any Eeveelution) in XD's box, since the other Pokémon's final stages are not shown. |) u |( e ® 16:02, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

Thank you! |) u |( e ® 15:01, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

Removing MD and Rumble

So now that the Pokémon Mystery Dungeon and Rumble Pokémon have been changed to Player characters, why are they still on the Starter page? Iml908 (talk) 01:10, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

Likely the reason why there are still there is that it has not been fully decided what to do with PMD and Rumble as seen in the section above. --Super goku (talk) 01:35, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

Kalos

Shouldn't the template be updated with Kalos? Torpoleon (talk) 20:21, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Both

Using the word both twice for the Colosseum starters looks a little confusing. Wouldn't it be better to have something like this:

Colosseum
Espeon and Umbreon (both)

|) u |( e ® 14:54, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

Also, what about giving links to th Yellow starters, like (player) and (rival)? |) u |( e ® 15:01, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

I've updated the template to remove the divider to show that they are both available together. We decided against including "both" at the end as we felt it was a bit redundant. Thank you for bringing this issue up though. --Pokemaster97 23:03, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

No problem, glad to help. |) u |( e ® 16:07, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

Includeonly

Can I ask if <includeonly>[[Category:Starter Pokémon]]</includeonly> could be put in the template? Thanks. — Reshi643 18:59, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

Menu Sprites for Kalos Starters

Can you replace these question mark sprites into menu sprites for Chespin, Fennekin and Froakie please? Cinday123 (talk) 09:14, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

Seems like they've done that, but I'm wondering where the file for the are on this site? ----NateVirus(Talk|Contributions) 07:44, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

The files are stored (as well as uploaded, managed, and so on) on separate site (Bulbagarden Archives), so it takes a while to update. Anyway, they're showing for me. Uploader (talk) 08:09, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

• They were for me too, until the page the file is shared on gets updated, it is back to the question mark sprites as a redirect, it seems. No idea why, might have to do with the quality and matching them up or something. I really have no idea. :/ ----NateVirus(Talk|Contributions) 16:41, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

The files that were up for a short while were stolen from another fansite by a contributor. They have since been deleted & redirected back to the question mark. - Kogoro - Talk to me - 16:47, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

• I started to suspect as much when I started browsing around the archives. We'll just have to wait until an admin is able to capture a shot from the games themselves. Or someone with proof of uploading it themselves. ----NateVirus(Talk|Contributions) 20:21, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

Inclusion of side games?

Why are Colosseum and XD included in this template? We haven't considered them main series games for several years, and even though they still seem to be in a sort of nebulous state at the moment, they still aren't main series to my awareness. Is this just a matter of a lack of thoroughness in implementing their change of status? Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 06:13, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

See also: Talk:Starter Pokémon#Split. I would question Yellow's inclusion as well, at the very least the "Rival" part. Tiddlywinks (talk) 16:08, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

Rival's starters

Why are we including Blue's starter from Yellow and Trace's starters from LGPE, but not the starters of other rivals like Tierno, etc.? Golden Trainer (talk) 00:46, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

I don't know about Trace, but in Yellow, Eevee was the starter intended for the player, that's why it's counted.--ForceFire 05:53, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

What does that have to do with anything? Any Pokémon a trainer starts with is by definition a starter. Also, by that logic, shouldn't Pikachu be excluded from the template, since Oak didn't intend for it to be a starter? He had just caught it by chance, and gave it to the player because he had it lying around. Golden Trainer (talk) 06:24, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

Pikachu is still given to the player. Keyword here is player. The templates counts any starter that is intended for the player character, Eevee included.--ForceFire 06:42, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

Then we shouldn't count rival's starters at all. Eevee in Yellow isn't a player's starter as far as gameplay mechanics are concerned, since it's impossible for the player to start with it. Golden Trainer (talk) 06:55, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

You’re completely twisting his words. Where did Tierno get his Corphish? Was it Professor-administered? Or did he catch it on his own? This isn’t the anime where he, Trevor and Shauna got the Kanto starters. Also, if I were to do what you’re doing, I would be trying to argue that since the Gym Leaders start a battle by sending out a Pokémon, that must be their starter Pokémon, and I’m sure you’d react by saying “That’s not what I mean”--KnightGalarie (talk) 17:18, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

How am I twisting his words? And what does the source of Tierno's starter have to do with anything? A starter is a starter, there's no rule that only those handed out by professors count. And the whole "most trainers get their starters from Pokémon professors" thing isn't even true for the games AFAIK. In the very first games, Oak gave Charmander, Bulbasaur or Squirtle to the player because he wanted him to complete the Pokédex for him, and those were the only Pokémon he had left -- he said so himself. Nowhere is it stated that those are standard starter Pokémon, or that Oak was known for handing out starters. That's why most NPC trainers in Kanto don't have a Charmander, Bulbasaur or Squirtle. Ditto for later games and regions. Golden Trainer (talk) 22:36, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

”Nowhere is it stated that those are the standard starter Pokémon” But first Pokémon does not automatically mean Starter Pokémon, and that’s what you’re not understanding. Just because you first see Tierno with a Corphish does not mean it’s his starter.--KnightGalarie (talk) 22:45, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

(resetting indent) I mean, it's the only Pokémon he owns at the beginning of the game. What other Pokémon could possibly be his starter? Golden Trainer (talk) 22:53, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

We don’t know, but it’s speculation to call Corphish his starter--KnightGalarie (talk) 22:59, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

What about Wally (Ralts) or Lyra/Ethan (Marill)? Golden Trainer (talk) 23:03, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

Is the Ralts available to the player? Was Lyra or Ethan’s Marill even ever stated to be their first Pokémon let alone their starter? Whataboutism will get you nowhere--KnightGalarie (talk) 23:08, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

"Is the Ralts available to the player?" Not as a starter, but neither was Eevee in Yellow. Golden Trainer (talk) 23:11, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

You’re trying to use semantics in order to destroy the definition of Starter Pokémon. According to you, Amphy is Jasmine’s starter Pokémon--KnightGalarie (talk) 23:14, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

If that was her first Pokémon, then yes it would be? But we don't know if it was, so not sure what you're trying to get at. Golden Trainer (talk) 23:17, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

What I’m trying to get at is your argument is deeply flawed and built on assumptions--KnightGalarie (talk) 23:33, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

What assumptions? We do know from what the game tells us that Ralts was Wally's first Pokémon, making it his starter. Golden Trainer (talk) 23:41, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

But that doesn’t apply to every trainer’s first Pokémon we see. You are not listening.--KnightGalarie (talk) 23:44, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

(resetting indent) I wasn't implying it applied to every trainer. Golden Trainer (talk) 23:50, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

I see the problem here, poor communication. When I said "What about Wally and Lyra/Ethan", I wasn't arguing that Corphish HAD to be Tierno's starter. I was saying even if you disregard Tierno, there are other trainers whose starters were shown in the games yet aren't included in the template. Golden Trainer (talk) 23:54, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

But you used Tierno as the first person you thought of. In addition, you keep calling Marill Lyra/Ethan’s starter without any evidence besides it being the first Pokémon we saw them with--KnightGalarie (talk) 00:00, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

I thought the fact that both Tierno and Lyra/Ethan were shown with only one Pokémon at the beginning of the story was evidence enough, but eh. Golden Trainer (talk) 01:33, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

That’s like saying Goldeen was Misty’s starter in the anime. Heck, Brock was first seen with Geodude, but Onix was his first Pokémon--KnightGalarie (talk) 01:53, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

You could say the same about Wes' Espeon and Umbreon. We don't know if those were his starters. Golden Trainer (talk) 15:55, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

I should mention that I said "player" meaning "game only". Anime characters are excluded, the template clearly shows this. I also said "intended" for the player, meaning Eevee counts. LGPE isn't an issue as Eevee is still a starter Pokemon the player can choose.--ForceFire 06:20, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

Saying that "Having been being intended for the player" is a requirement sounds like an arbitrary rule to me. If you look at official starter group shots that include all starters from the mainline games up to that point, Eevee is never included, showing that it's not officially considered a starter Pokémon anymore than other rival-only starters as far as the main series is concerned:

Of course, it would probably be considered one now, but only the LGE incarnation, not the Yellow and LGP incarnations. Golden Trainer (talk) 15:53, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

It's not an arbitrary rule, it's an exception that is made based on the story of the game (in this case Yellow, where Oak was intending to give the player the lone Poke Ball on the table).--ForceFire 15:00, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

Sounds more like some subjective fan criteria that isn't supported by official sources, going by the fact that they didn't consider Eevee a starter from the pics I posted. It doesn't matter if Oak intended to for it to be Red's starter in the story; it wasn't the player's starter, gameplay or story wise. I think Eevee should be removed altogether (except for the LGE incarnation) and we should list only player's starters. Unless you have proof that Game Freak sees Yellow!Eevee as a starter but not the other rivals' starters? Golden Trainer (talk) 23:04, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

The other rivals’ starters are usually still among the three you get to choose from. That’s why “other rivals’ starters” won’t get removed.--KnightGalarie (talk) 23:07, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

I was referring to the other rival-only starters, which aren't listed here. You can't remove what isn't here. Golden Trainer (talk) 23:09, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

So there's no evidence whatsoever that official sources consider Yellow!Eevee a starter like the others? If not, I think it should be removed. Golden Trainer (talk) 08:32, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

Please stop. You’re fighting a losing battle.--KnightGalarie (talk) 20:26, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

Such a well-thought, productive response. If I'm "fighting a losing battle", then how come no one has been able to a) present evidence that Yellow!Eevee is officially considered a starter any more than the other rivals', or b) explain why it's absent from the official starter group pics I posted? Golden Trainer (talk) 08:12, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

Of course it’s not considered a starter any more than any other rival's starters. They’re equal. The other rivals' starters are already in the template. Or are you still insisting Corphish is Tierno’s starter Pokémon?--KnightGalarie (talk) 08:15, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

Wally's Ralts isn't. And there's no more evidence for Espeon and Umbreon being Wes' starters than there is for Tierno's Corphish. Golden Trainer (talk) 08:28, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

Flexbox

I would suggest using a CSS flexbox instead of a table for the list of boxes. I made the template for that: User:Bfdifan2006/Starter Pokémon. Is this good for the mainspace? Additionally, the style tag in the header in the current version is not closed, causing the header to not be roundy. I fixed this in my version of the template, and this should also be fixed in the official version. --Bfdifan2006! _{Or is he actually Keyacom?} 10:44, 3 March 2022 (UTC)

Rearranging the current template

I think it would be a good idea to slightly rearrange the template to place "Paldea" starters before all the miscellaneous starter groups from divergent games like Yellow, Let's Go, and Legends: Arceus. Paldea is one of the standard mainline regions like Kanto to Galar and should be grouped closer to them accordingly. So I think the template being like this is more appropriate.

Starter Pokémon
Kanto Bulbasaur Charmander Squirtle	Johto Chikorita Cyndaquil Totodile	Hoenn Treecko Torchic Mudkip
Sinnoh Turtwig Chimchar Piplup	Unova Snivy Tepig Oshawott	Kalos Chespin Fennekin Froakie
Alola Rowlet Litten Popplio	Galar Grookey Scorbunny Sobble	Paldea Sprigatito Fuecoco Quaxly
Yellow Pikachu (player) Eevee (rival)	Colosseum XD Espeon and Umbreon Eevee	Let's Go, Pikachu! Partner Pikachu (player) Eevee (rival)
Let's Go, Eevee! Partner Eevee (player) Pikachu (rival)	Hisui Rowlet Cyndaquil Oshawott

This would be a more appropriate template, as Paldea is formally the ninth core series region and its trio should be grouped at the top three rows with the other eight core series region starter trios accordingly, with all miscellaneous starter groups from divergent trios below. ScraftyIsTheBest (talk) 17:11, 16 August 2022 (UTC)