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Difference between revisions of "Talk:Stats"

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(Stat equation layout)
(Stat equation layout)
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[[File:AltGen3PlusStatFormula.png]]
 
[[File:AltGen3PlusStatFormula.png]]
 
and the latter is MUCH easier to read. --[[User:Keiya|Keiya]] ([[User talk:Keiya|talk]]) 10:17, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
 
and the latter is MUCH easier to read. --[[User:Keiya|Keiya]] ([[User talk:Keiya|talk]]) 10:17, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
:They are both mathematically correct so it's just a matter of choice. I probably won't fix it because if it ain't broke... HADAA
+
:They are both mathematically correct so it's just a matter of choice. I probably won't fix it because if it ain't broke...
  +
HADAA 16:49, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

Revision as of 16:49, 30 October 2013

In the modifiers table, how about items such as Light Ball, Thick Club? Lahar 23:16, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Whats the maximum for the stats? KPF 01:32, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Stat modification in battle.

okay, this is probably the best place to raise the question.

the stat altering moves change stats in "levels" of up to six. how much does each "level" change the stats by? If this is already listed somewhere, i don't know where to find it.

As far as I can tell, it works like this: Unmodified, stats are multiplied by 2/2 (with the exception of evasion and accuracy, which use 3/3 instead). Raising a stat by one level adds 1 to the numerator, whereas lowering by one level adds 1 to the denominator. This means that if you use a move like Growl, the opponent's attack stat is multiplied by 2/3. Using it again changes 2/3 to 2/4, a.k.a. 1/2, and if you use it again it goes to 2/5, then 2/6, (or 1/3,) etc. --Legollama 02:09, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
Do negative stat changes in battle stay even after you switch out?Summerscythe 20:34, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
No. Switching out resets all stat alterations, +ve or -ve. - Solarys 06:03, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Speed question

If two Pokémon have the same speed stat in battle, what determines which will attack first? Lucario12 16:48, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Good question. I'm sure that it will be chosen randomly. TESHIGIGAS 16:54, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

All Stats Referred to Collectively

It's just an idea but I've noticed something. I've had the idea of instead of just reffering to a Pokemon's indivisual Stats; HP, Attack, Defense, Special Atk, Special Def and Speed, one could refer to all values that effect a battle. Observe;


Special Attack

HP

Attack

Defense

Special Defense

Evasiveness

Accuracy

Speed

Reading the first letter of each Stat forms the word "SHADSEAS" (or an alteration on the order). What do you think? Could it be a new lingo? Bttsstewart 17:33, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Maybe, but the order seems pretty messy to me, as I'm more comfortable with the order HP-Atk-Def-SPAtk-SPDef-Spd. And remember to sign your comments on talk pages with four tildes (~~~~), this was already mentioned in your welcome message (I hope you already read it through). UltimateSephiroth (about me · chat · edits) 17:15, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, signed it now Bttsstewart 17:33, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Evasion stages/modifiers?

What's the maximum % of evasion a PKMN can have? (I.e. 6 uses of Double Team, Bright Powder and Hail/Sandstorm ability bonus.)

Firstly, do the items/abilities stack with each other and stages linearly or diminishingly?

If linearly, it will be 96.67%: 6 stages (9/3 multiplier) = 66.67% evasion + 20% from ability boost + 10% from Bright Powder

If diminishingly with stages only, it's 76.67%: 66.67% + 6.67%* from ability boost + 3.33%* from Bright Powder

Or if diminishingly with each other AND stages, it's around 75~76%, depending on whether the item or ability is accounted for first.

- Solarys 06:01, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

I've been wondering this same thing, every time one of my Pokémon will get hit by Smokescreen or Sand-Attack, they miss more then half the time. But additional uses don't seem to make a huge difference. [[Derian]] 19:00, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
They stack diminishingly. So the effects of bright powder/your ability get smaller the more you double team or minimize. However, they remain the same if you sand attack because accuray is a diffrent stat.

-Kin-Kyukon

Incorrect formulas

Hey, sorry to revert the awesome-looking formula images in the #Formula section to text, but they're incorrect.

Generations III and IV have Nature × at first, when #Nature says this:

After all other calculations are finished, the stat that the nature enhances will be 110% of what it would be without the nature, and the stat hindered will be 90% of its normal value.

Generations I and II have EV / 2048, when Effort values#Generation I says the formula is Statexp.png.

And since I don't know how to make those awesome-looking formula images or even update them, I'll leave it to the uploader to modify them. The relevant files are StatFormulaHPGenI.png, StatFormulaGenI.png, StatFormulaHPGen3.png and StatFormulaGen3.png. Looce 17:09, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

If you can explicitly point out the corrections to be made, I can get on that for you. When I created the images I was going on the information I was provided with. If it is incorrect, I'm happy to provide a fix given that you tell me what to change it to. —darklordtrom 23:51, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
To the current revision of #Formula's text. Namely,
  • In Gen I and II, both formulas, update EV/2048 to be squareroot(EV + 3) / 4. Even better would be to say STAT EXP in Gen I and II's formulas instead of EV, because that's what they were known as back then.
  • So, like this, then?
HP calc.png
Except that formula is wrong, because it has to be divided by 8, not 4 (the denominator on the bottom is 50, not 100.) My mistake.Ztobor 03:39, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
  • In Gen III and IV, other status formula, move Nature × to the end as × Nature
Though it may be that the (... + 50 + ...) / 50 thing for Gen I and II's HP was correct, even if it's in Gen III and IV as + Level + 10, so you don't really need to update that. Thanks in advance :) Looce 03:15, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

I disagree with changing the terms to the obsolete ones. It is confusing. I have been having problems with the term “effort points” in the last two generations, which I suspect are being used interchangeably for “effort values”. Note that the terms have been changed, but stick to one or the other from then on. Of course it would have been better to have not changed the terms at all, but what’s done is done. White Phoenix 11:22, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Just a little thing for Looce, um... Nature's first because of the transitive property. Notice the parentheticals? Plus, the correct answer is not gotten... TTEchidna 10:06, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

In the first paragraph under Effort Values, before the formulas, shouldn’t that be “For every 4 effort points gained, a level 100 Pokémon will have 1 extra point in its stats”? And where did the 50 and 2048 come from? It isn’t mentioned anywhere on this page or in the Effort Values article. So which formula for determining the stat points is correct? 50+(EV/2048) or squareroot(EV+3)/4? White Phoenix 13:54, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

Whoever wrote the current Gen III-IV "Other Stats" formula left Level out of the calculations. Smogon's formula is Stat = (((2 * BaseStat + IV + (EV / 4)) * Level / 100 + 5) * Nature) The Professor 15:44, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
It's been fixed, BTW. My bad. Ztobor 04:19, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Now wait a minute!

Your stat calcs are wrong! Arceus with a 31 IV and 252 EV in HP will have 444 HP. Your calculation gives it a maximum of 394. TTEchidna 10:31, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

Do the math again. It gives exactly 444. --Miliko 18:52, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Off by one?

I implemented this formula in Lua: http://pastie.org/7732032

but, sometimes I'm getting results that are one more than the game's result (in Soul Silver). Maybe the rounding is wrong? This happens with neutral natures too (e.g. Hardy), so that shouldn't be it. HyperHacker (talk) 07:17, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

e.g. Eevee, base special attack is 45, level 18, EV 6, IV 3, the result should be 21, but I get 22.01 (truncated to 22). The other stats are fine. For EVs of 0-2 I get 21 as expected. HyperHacker (talk) 07:30, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

Found it: EV / 4 needs to be floor(EV / 4). So the article needs to be corrected; unfortunately I don't know how to go about generating those nice images. HyperHacker (talk) 08:00, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
I found this to be also inaccurate to Gens I and II. The game rounds UP, not DOWN. I was making a mockup calculator in MS Excel to know the amount of EVs to give to my Pokémon using Pikasav (for testing reasons) and found out that sometimes the value was off by one, since I was using the ROUNDDOWN function. Using ROUNDDUP actually gave me the exact values the game used. hfc2X 22:51, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Nature Factor

After some tests using the formula on Lv5 Pokémon on my Emerald Rom, I think the Nature factor on it is placed on the wrong place. It should not affect the final "5" on it. I specifically tested it on an Adamant Magikarp with perfect Atk IV, the formula gives me a stat of 8, and in the game it is 7 (I tested the IV with the IV Man). And in other Pokémon (Breloom IIRC), I had the same problem. Could someone test it? --Miliko 18:52, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

  • You need to truncate (drop the decimals) before applying the nature boost. --sp unit 262 03:11, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

What happens with Speed?

When two Pokémon's speeds are equal, they attack first with 50% probability each. If the speeds are a bit off, the probability does not jump to 100%. What actually happens? Ztobor 21:24, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

  • I noticed this too, especially in the older generations; I think the higher level one with a slightly lower speed may have a chance to go first. I don't remember seeing this happening in the battle tower/frontier, or link battles, though, even when there's a level difference. ~ Solarys 12:16, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
  • Btw, you can easily test this on an emulator. Make sure you have a spare slot in your party, and an active Pokémon with non-damaging moves (optional, but preferred). First take note of your active Pokémon's speed, then go fight something with a similar level and base speed. Save a state when you enter the fight, then catch the enemy to see its speed. If it's off from yours by more than, say, 3 points, load your saved state and run; otherwise load your saved state, keep choosing different moves to see whether the faster one always goes first. ~ Solarys 12:45, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
  • I can confirm this with a non-emulator device - the slower one can also sometimes go first. But the greater the speed difference, the less likely it happens. Ztobor 04:41, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

In the anime

A while back ago I made an edit about how Speed worked in the anime. Is it possible that we could make a seperate section or page that's about how stats work in the anime, because I can definitely see a bit of a difference. For example, Double Team normally raises evasion but it also seems to raise attack power in the anime because all of the clones can attack. --Landfish7 00:04, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

Well? --Landfish7 21:48, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Can we please

Make a clear definition of stages? I only get the gist of it. --*Ɣℯ№ӎօṫհ* 00:52, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Stages are incredibly simple. Let's say my Pokémon has 420 Attack and it gets hit with FeatherDance (which lowers the Attack stat by two stages). The second stage of decrease is 1/2. 420 * .5 = 210, meaning that whenever damage calculations have to take my Attack stat into consideration, it will use 210 instead of 420.- unsigned comment from Hexagon Theory (talkcontribs)
Thanks, I found some extra info on it. Vemoth 09:33, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Regarding calculation of successful hit in battle

"If P is greater than 1, the move will surely hit." But what if P isn't greater than 1? Surely it won't always miss... does anybody know anything about the formula that determines successful move hits? Hexagon Theory 21:27, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

P is just the probability that the move will hit. Probabilities greater than 1 don't make any sense, so it's explicitly stated that they're the same as 1 (i.e., always hit). Once the probability is calculated, the game (in effect) generates a random number between 0 and 1; if P is greater than or equal to this number, the attack hits. --Minimiscience 16:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
D'you know for certain that the random number is uniformly distributed?- unsigned comment from Hexagon Theory (talkcontribs)
Technically, no, I don't know that, though I would expect it to be (or, at least, as close to uniform as pseudo-randomness can get you). --Minimiscience 19:49, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Trading and level up

If you have a level 100 Scyther, with a speed of 300, and trade with metal coat, than wouldn't it have a higher speed than a scizor level 100 can have?(its highest according to the sat calculation is 251, and I only used this as an example.) Also, what if you had a level 100 Eevee(with a speed of 229, it's highest possible speed), and for example, you evolve it into a Jolteon, it will still have less than the minimum speed a level 100 Jolteon can have, so how does this work? Do the stats get reset? - unsigned comment from Phoenixon (talkcontribs)

Stats are always recalculated upon evolution. Werdnae (talk) 22:49, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

Contrary

Why is Contrary listed as an ability that lowers Attack and Defense? That's not what it does... EnosShayremTalk 04:31, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Wrong example

For the example showing how to work out a Pokémon's Sp.Att it shows:
StatExampleSpAtkGen4 1.png StatExampleSpAtkGen4 2.png
When the game calculates a stat it rounds down before applying the nature. The example applies the nature first and then rounds down, that Pokémon would actually have a Sp. Att of 135. It's not that important but it should still be fixed. Pikiwyn talk 19:34, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Garchomp total?

The base stat total + the EV total + the IV total of the lv. 78 Garchomp = 1220 but its stat total is 1240. Can someone explain this? Nickvang 19:13 10 june 2011

  • The stat total and the totals you see there are not equal. It takes 4 EV's to raise the stat total by 1, and each base stat raises the total by 2. Ztobor 02:04, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

Wrong information on the color of the HP bar

"If a Pokémon has less than 1/4 of their HP remaining, the color will turn red" immagine1jxc.png 165/4=41.25, so what? It has less than 1/4, and its HP bar isn't red. Shepeedy 20:10, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps it's 1/5? Try lowering the HP to less than 33. Ztobor 14:13, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
I'll try the next time I'll be able to. Shepeedy 20:08, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
I can confirm 1/5. I don't have any screenshot proof, but I'll run through the numbers. My Vaporeon has 314 HP. 314*1/5=62.8. Lo and behold, at 63 HP the bar is yellow, and at 62 HP the bar is red. 1/5 it is. Phizzle 07:23, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
Ok, feel free to edit it. Shepeedy 08:27, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

Stuff

If Paralyzed Pokémon has -6 in Speed, how much it will be slowed?

Also...

  • +1 - <Pokémon>'s <Stat> rose!
  • +2 - <Pokémon>'s <Stat> rose sharply!
  • +3 - <Pokémon>'s <Stat> rose drastically!
  • +6 - While no move (save for Belly Drum) can raise stat so much, the Wonder Launch item says immensely.
  • -1 - <Pokémon>'s <Stat> fell!
  • -2 - <Pokémon>'s <Stat> harshly fell!

Marked +-+-+ 13:12, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

I know I'm responding to an old post but I added the in-game message information because it informs the player how many stages the stats have been changed (sort of.) I'm pretty sure it says "sharply rose" instead of the other way around, and there's "severely fell" for -3. For the record, a paralyzed Pokémon will be slowed by a fourth.HADAA 16:45, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

Stat colors

It should be pointed out somewhere in the article something about the distinctive colors of stat modifiers. You know, the colors that were used in Gen III, but later dropped in Gen IV. The colors in Gen III are:

  • Red/Yellow: Attack
  • Light/Dark Green: Defense
  • Orange/White: Sp.Atk
  • Dark Green/White: Sp.Def
  • Light Blue: Speed
  • Purple: Accuracy
  • Teal: Evasion
  • Gray: Two or more stats

Whereas in Gen IV the colours are:

  • Orange/Yellow: Positive modifier
  • Blue: Negative modifier

hfc2X 01:57, 21 November 2011 (UTC)


Moxie?

I was scanning the items that are supposed to raise stats, and I did not see Moxie under the 'Attack' heading when it should be there.

--Drakkon 15:58, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

Stat modifiers vs. EVs

The section on "Stat modifiers" largely discusses in-battle stat modifers (i.e. the six stages of increase/decrease for Attack/Defense/Specials/Accuracy/Evasion). Vitamins, wings, and EV berries are not part of this (they act on EVs directly). Should they be moved to the Effort Values section instead? --Stratelier 18:01, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Stats about the stats

I think it may be a great idea to include an overall summary of all Pokémon stats in this article, like what already exists on the articles of individual types. An average may be a good feature, as well as upper and lower quartiles. This data could be sampled separately to incorporate all Pokémon in one table and all fully evolved Pokémon in another. I'd be happy to know what you all think. Superbreeder 12:38, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Health Bar Color

Recently I was playing HeartGold and noticed that my Girafarig (level 15 and caught in HG, near Lake of Rage) had a max health of 50 with a current amount of 26 but a yellow health bar. Why was this so? MethodicMockingbird (talk) 22:58, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Why is Contrary only listed as affecting a few stats on this page?--Chris Broach (talk) 04:47, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Should the Generation 5 formula for determining non-HP stats at level 50 be listed here?

I wasn't sure whether to add it, so I'll ask it here. Since some may be training their Pokémon for battling on the Battle Subway, Wi-Fi, or situations where a Pokémon's level is rounded down to level 50, should the formula listed here be somehow implemented into the article? Or instead of implementing the formula, should it just be mentioned that the formula for stat calculation is halved when determining stats? NOBODY (talk) 03:38, 1 February 2013 (UTC)

Stat equation layout

Is there any particular reason they're laid out as they are? For instance, OtherStatCalcGen34.png is equivilant to AltGen3PlusStatFormula.png and the latter is MUCH easier to read. --Keiya (talk) 10:17, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

They are both mathematically correct so it's just a matter of choice. I probably won't fix it because if it ain't broke...

HADAA 16:49, 30 October 2013 (UTC)