Talk:Move variations

Template?

This page was an excellent idea, but I wonder if there's a way to indicate in each move's article when it belongs to one of these "archetypes". --Johans Nidorino 21:10, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

I suggested it but it was forgotten later on; and unfortunately, I don't know how to make templates. -(Llxwarbirdxll 02:35, 29 May 2007 (UTC))

Template namespace. I'll whip one up. --TTEchidna 02:53, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

New Variation

There neeeds to be a Move Variation for the Following moves:

• Psybeam
• Bubblebeam
• Aurora Beam
• Sludge
• Spark

I have checked them all out and they each have:

• Power: 65
• Accuracy: 100%
• PP: 20

P.S. I don't know how to do this myself so really I'm asking for somebody to do this for me! Tesh 16:53, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Actually, I'm not sure if this should be counted as they each have a different added effect, either a status ailment or a stat change. Somebody gie me their view...Tesh 20:32, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Maybe keep the status-changing ones together, and keep the stat-changing ones together, but keep them separate. That means Psybeam, Sludge, and Spark go together, and BubbleBeam and Aurora Beam go together.

And don't forget to use the {{m}} template for moves. TTEchidna 00:22, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

By the way, I think you've got the wrong idea. I'm not sure on how to create the move variation. I only realised they were similar... Tesh 15:34, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

"Or"

Is "10 or 15" valid here? I'd say the use of every possible move variation no matter the amount of PPs it has would require a redefinition. BTW, Ice Beam and Thunder don't belong in the tables they've been introduced in if following the original criterion. --Johans 05:04, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, I put those there. I'll have them removed. Llxwarbirdxll 08:20, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

LOL, now somebody else did the same with variations of Slash, Waterfall, and Shadow Ball :P --Johans 16:08, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

People are no longer respecting the "PPs" part of the definition. With "Variations of Flamethrower" the article doesn't mention neither 15 nor 10 now. If this is going to continue, maybe Bulbapedia's definition on "move variations" should no longer include PPs, which seems to be the least important of the three columns. --Johans 18:35, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Seismic Toss and Night Shade?

Those belong on the list, right? Angerman 20:10, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Doesn't Night Shade do somewhere from 1 to 1.5x the level? I know Seismic Toss does the level. TTEchidna 23:07, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

No, Psywave does from 0.5 to 1.5x the level. But Night Shade always does damage equal to the level. --Shiny Noctowl 23:11, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Still, they don't have the same amout of default total PPs. --Johans 01:53, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Well, I'm sure Stone Edge and Cross Chop are variations. Angerman 07:00, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Definitely ^_^ --Johans 16:46, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Stub?

Is it Still a stub?--Torchic-ken 2:58, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, there's a few missing bits. Angerman 00:10, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Mean Look/Block/Spider Web?

I noticed there isn't a section for these three moves, and while Block and Mean Look fit a "5 PP, Prevents foe from escaping" description, Spider Web only has one thing setting them apart and that's the PP issue. Should I add it anyway? TinaTheKirlia 01:47, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Add only Mean Look and Block. That's what has been done in these cases to agree with the current definition of "move archetypes". --Johans 08:01, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Counter and Mirror Coat?

I'm really surprised no one did this - they both have 10PP, varying power, 100% accuracy and they both go last and counter the foe's attack at two times the power. I was trying to find a good way to summarize it though - how's this? "Goes last and counters the move used by the foe at twice the power". TinaTheKirlia ♥ File:281MS.gif 21:23, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

That works. TTEchidna 23:41, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Softboiled and Milk Drink

Even though they're listed under variations of Recover.. they both can do something Recover can not -- heal other Pokémon's HP outside of battle. I think this deserves a mention. :P Tina ^δ♫ 18:58, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Contests?

I think it would be incredibly useful to have a version of this page for contests, since many of the moves do the exact same things. Thoughts...? Maki 13:47, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

I agree. However it'd have to be set up differently. It'd be like... effect, cute moves, beauty moves, smart moves, tough moves, cool moves. TTEchidnaFire echy 20:49, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Blizzard

Are Magma Storm and Focus Blast really variations of Blizzard? Neither inflict a status ailment and Magma Storm sounds more like a multi-turn move. The only similarities seem to be 120 power

Also, I think Thunder should be added as a variation. It has 10 PP, not 5, but it causes a status ailment, has 120 power and 70 accuracy. Drake Clawfang 20:28, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Thunder and Blizzard also have their accuracy at 100% when used during a specific weather condition. Magma Storm seems most like Outrage, though that goes 2-3 turns, and Focus Blast is just... its own thing. Not every move has a counterpart, that's what people need to remember. TTEchidnaFire echy 20:38, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

That's what I mean, a lot of the moves I mentioned, as well as Hydro Pump, Seed Flare and Fire Blast are all similar, but variations of each other? I'd say they're similar moves, but not direct variations. Drake Clawfang 20:40, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes. Variations: Do the same thing. Similarity: have the same PP, power, or accuracy but don't do the same thing. Outrage and Thrash are variations, despite Outrage now being 120 power. Focus Blast and Blizzard are not because all they share is accuracy and power. TTEchidnaFire echy 21:21, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

So, should we move some of the moves I mentioned around? That's what I've been suggesting. I think Magma Storm should be grouped with Outrage and Thrash, and Blizzard, Thunder and Gunk Shot should be in a group. Maybe Seed Flare and Focus Blast too, their effects are identical except for accuracy. Drake Clawfang 00:39, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Order

Why aren't they in alphabetical order? MathijsP

Beats me. Last time I organized them I put them in order by damage. TTEchidna 01:59, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Dragon Claw, X-Scissor, Seed Bomb

Aren't these all variations? They all do 80 damage, have 15 PP, and no added effect. Can I add them? --Dark Sage 18:25, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

You forget to mention the accuracy, but it happens that it's the same! So yeah, they're move variations. --Johans 18:20, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Great. I guess I'll add them now. --Dark Sage 18:25, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Actually, I don't think I know how to do the template. Can someone else do that? --Dark Sage 18:27, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Nevermind, I got them. :) --Dark Sage 21:05, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Ice Beam?

Ice Beam has only 10 PP, yet it's claimed to be a variation of Flamethrower and Thunderbolt, which have 15 PP. Can I remove that? --Dark Sage 21:08, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Ice Beam is the most useful of all three, but is still the same. Same power, accuracy and rate to inflict a status problem. Part of Ice Beam may be the fact frozen Pokémon are helpless. Gywall^(Talk) 21:15, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Ice Beam is one of the more visible move variations in normal gameplay. --FabuVinny ^{|Talk Page|} 21:21, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Ah. I see. OK. --Dark Sage 00:46, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Air Slash?

I wonder if, shouldnt Air Slash be in the "variations of Slash" since it IS a Slash move after all? o: what do you people think? I havn't really looked up the PP, accuracy and power, but its very similar to Night Slash and Slash. :c--Angela-Samshi 17:50, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Slash and Night Slash have high critical-hit ratios, Air Slash may cause the opponent to flinch. ~$aturn¥oshi ^{THE VOICES} 17:54, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Ahh, ok thanks. --Angela-Samshi 18:09, 23 June 2008 (UTC)