OK, that Emerald info was wrong. I just got the game last Thursday, so I know. First of all, our second battle didn't involve a Wingull, Lotad, or Slugma. She had her Mudkip and a Torkoal. I of course have Combusken. Last night when I fought her on Route 110, she had a Marshtop, Slugma, and Lombre. So, I don't know how many other mistakes could be there. Porygon-Z 16:47, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
- And here's some proof. Porygon-Z 18:19, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
- That seems to be correct. May has Lombre and Slugma, but not Wingull if she has Marshtomp. So what's wrong? ~ kenn Talk 18:24, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
- In the second battle, it depends on your starter. Example, I have Mudkip as my starter, and May has Wingull. If you have Torchic, then May has Slugma instead. ~ kenn Talk 18:26, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
- That seems to be correct. May has Lombre and Slugma, but not Wingull if she has Marshtomp. So what's wrong? ~ kenn Talk 18:24, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
Since this article is for the game, Should May Birch her full name *when no the chosen player character) be included? Yami 23:09, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
- Well that's the point to why we're not doing that. If she is chosen as the player, she's not "May Birch". The same applies to Brendan. Plus if we had May Birch and Brendan Birch, people would start to believe they are siblings. --ケンジのガール 23:11, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
Not if you explain it to them Yami 23:14, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
Also they list Both Norman and Prof. Birch as fathers with the condition to how that happens, so just as long as the person reading this has common sense they shouldn't get confused.Yami 23:18, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
- I don't really see a point to it.
- The way you put it didn't explain anything at all. If you put the conditions under which her name would be "May Birch," then it would be better, but I still don't think we ought to include it. --Martonimos((Argh|Blargh)) 23:21, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
- Also, what about her Japanese name? We'd have to mess with that too. --ケンジのガール 23:22, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
You guys are making this more difficult then it has to be. We don't have to mess with her Japanese name, it can remain as is. Anmd if the person would simply read the article they'd figure out that you only add the Birch part when she's Birch's daughter. Common sense really. Yami 23:23, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
- So you'd just ignore the Japanese name? If you don't feel that's important than we shouldn't even bother with the English. --ケンジのガール 23:26, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
- Well if you want to go and change the Japanese name too, then copy past the Japanese from Prof Birch's name and put it where it needs to be. that problem is solved, you don't have to make this so difficult. Yami 23:30, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
Well then you just defeated your platform on how people would get confused about the whole thing. Yami 23:34, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
- You still haven't provided a good reason why we should add it. I definitely see a good reason that we shouldn't: It'll cause confusion, even if it's only momentary (which it won't always be). --Martonimos((Argh|Blargh)) 00:02, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
Because its Common sense and it educates people on the differences between regular may and both forms of game May.
and kenji protecting the article is an abuse of power an uncalled for. Yami 00:04, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
- Sigh. Is he Blue Oak? No. No he's not. Heck, Green's page isn't at Green Oak, Sapphire's page isn't at Sapphire Birch, and Platina's page isn't at Platina Berlitz (though it was previously). The style with these guys is to just use their first names, because then it's consistent. Ash and Gary are a different story, since a majority of the time, they introduce themselves with first AND last names, while game characters just imply their last names by relation, but NEVER say them outright. TTEchidna 00:07, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
- There. There's your other admin responce that you wanted so badly. We don't have it for anyone else so we shouldn't have it for May. Do you get it now? --ケンジのガール 00:13, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
Well for one thing May is not in the same boat as Blue, Red or the others because she isn't associated with the color themes. This is a May article not a Sapphire, Ruby or Emerald or what ever color/material she's be named article. Plus the others are all more or less incarnations of the pokemon special not exactly like their video game counterparts. Even then Blue (video games) Green (special) is still the only one to my knowledge that could be given a last name, since i haven't read them and don't know if red is called red ketchem.
Her name is May (Haruka) putting her in the same boat as Ash and Gary with their respective Japanese names. Only because in the game versions last names are not clearly given except for possibly Gary, she'd be half in and half out of the boat given the circumstances.
I don't see why this was turned into a big argument. All i did was add an alternative name that is common sense going be for when she is the rival. Not to mention the article starts off with her primarily in the Rival position so the Name May Birch would fit better there just because the article is favoring Rival May and not Player May or not favoring either.
If it was a problem with people getting confused, they'd more likely be confused that May is listed primarily as the rival in this article, where her father would be Birch, but in the anime we all know her to be norman's daughter.
If you're worried about people getting confused then you should write that she is the Female Gender Choice for the player, and if not chosen the rival of the player. Unless you do that then we might as well just put Birch right after May because of how you guys have it written out.
That is what's misleading and confusing, not a alternative name that points out with common sense that if she is your rival and prof birch's offspring then her last name is going be birch.
Now if this was a case of the other game characters don't have last names then again it's not the same boat as the Color players/characters.
The Article needs to be cleaned up for one thing so it no longer favors may being in the Rival position which would award her the last name. The article shouldn't favor either timeline may and should state that She is either the player's choice if they pick the female gender or she is going be the rivial should the player pick the male. Both are equally represented with neither being favored explicitly.
Now to the matter at hand, Can you honestly say that Giving two names for this incarnation of May is going hurt the article?
I mean it comes down to common sense. Player = no last name so she is just May and is more closer to her Anime incarnation. Rival = Last name because she'll be the offspring of Professor Birch, and not as close to the anime incarnation. Yami 01:05, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
- Well how are we to know that's her actual last name. There are children in the world who don't share the same last name as their father you know. --ケンジのガール 01:18, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
Now your just being argumentative. Before Wikipedia got all anti pokemon even they payed tribute to the fact that may gets the last name Birch by default if not chosen as the playing character. Yami 01:39, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
- I brought up a valid point. Wikipedia is the most unreliable source you can get. Some user who thought the same thing you did probably entered it in anonymously. Unless Pokemon.com or any other official site says it then it is unproven. --ケンジのガール 01:49, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
Ironic considering Wikipedia says the same about bulbapedia. How often are people going update pokemon.com to give info that is common sense. Also Wikipedia is so anal that they remove stuff almost as soon as its added if you don't source it so don't say that wikipedia isn't reliable. If they weren't so bent on limiting how much space pokemon takes up like when they got rid of individual pokemon articles, they'd still have that in the May article or the game articles.
So are you going turn this argument into a prove it type deal because it seems like all your doing is just arguing to argue. If you knew a thing about pokemon then you'd realize that they're so weary of American values that they do as much as they can to conform to our standards and that would include passing the father's name down to their child. They don't want people thinking their kid is playing a game where their character is a bastard. Yami 02:02, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
- Hey you're the one who started this, not me. You're the one who asked is it worth noting and I gave you my opinion as well as others. Just because somebody doesn't share the same name as their father doesn't mean they are a "bastard". That's a horrible thing to say. Just saying that proves to me how ignorant you are. Some father's give their children other last names just for the heck of it. Some might give their children their mother's maiden names. Does that make them "bastards".
- If you love Wikipeida so much do us a favor and stick with them. Who are you going to believe? Random people who no nothing about Pokémon or the dedicate fans? --ケンジのガール 02:12, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
You're just a dedicated fan of arguing and abusing your power and being unadmin like. Yami 02:18, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
- Right, keep name calling and bitching. You're not going to get your way. Everyone on Bulbapedia thinks you're wrong. Not just me. You're the uncivil one. --ケンジのガール 02:20, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
Everyone on Bulbpedia huh? You're being uncivil and not acting like a person with admin privileges should. And Kenji did do wrong when she broke the rules protecting the page which she was in a dispute with. Not to mention her general attitude as i have said is not admin like. What is this issue to you anyways are you just here just to gang up on the new guy to Bulbapedia or here to back up your internet crush or are you a sock puppet for her or some other behind the scene stuff.
Why are you guys gettign so uncivil over a simple adition of or May Birch?
- What the hell are you talking about? I think you're crazy...I'm not trying to gang up on the "new guy" or whatever... ust SUCK IT UP or LEAVE!!! And don't say who's uncivil, every community has their own rules, and also where all people have the say to do what's RIGHT, not WRONG!!! Get it?--☆Tavisource 02:31, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
You and kenji girl are being uncivil with posting things like "can you shut this guy up" "You know who" and "You're not new see that message your no longer welcome" Yami 03:09, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
- Why can't you just drop it and do something that is actually productive. MoldyOrange 03:13, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
- Because you're being an asshole that's why. You're calling anyone who doesn't have the same last name as their father bastards. --ケンジのガール 03:14, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
I said nothing of the sort. i said that it would stand to reasons that unless birch is divorced from may's/Branden's mother, they're not really his, or that he did the work but never married the mother and she gave them her name, then it would stand to reason they have the same last name as their father. common sense would at least give you enough reason to assume that much. Pokemon is always trying to conform to standards and would naturally try to conform to the social norm of naming a kid after one parent or the other. Are there kids named after their mother side yes but that doesn't mean that we can't assume a character like may or branden would share the same last name as their father who ever they would be. Yami 03:47, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
- 1)The name is Brenden. 2) Spell Pokémon correctly (with an é and a capital P) 3) Drop it and move on, you aren't going to win; do something productive so that everyone doesn't think that you are here only to cause trouble. MoldyOrange 03:50, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
- Don't you think you should just give it a rest already? She explained in a civil fashion why we don't need it in the article. How in the galaxy this got blown up into this is unbelievable. You have several admins telling you to drop it and do something more productive, yet you keep focusing on this.
- Edit warring is not something we take lightly here at Bulbapedia. I think calling it an abuse of power to protect a page to prevent edit warring makes no sense. Would you rather she have left it unprotected and continuously gone back and forth until you both drove each other insane? No, that's not how it works on Bulbapedia (or any wiki that I've heard of). All she did was explain to you why we don't have May Birch listed, and that's the simple fact that she's only May Birch when the main character is the Brenden. It's the same thing vice-versa.
- Do me a favor; instead of complaining about a stupid last name, help us upgrade the remaining 167 moves to Platinum Standard. Because right now, it seems like myself, Chungkingpun, and a few others are the only ones who actually care about this project getting done before this Thursday. Or go through the wanted pages and make an article somebody cares about. Because I honestly don't think most people care about the last name of a rival character exclusive to the games. --PAK Man Talk 04:01, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
Moldy i don't care what the spelling is at the moment, I spelled it right i just don't put the é every singly time, and i dropped the name thing but you people keep getting uncivil like Kenji girl calling me a asshole. Why don't you tell her to be civil and stop it. Also don't threaten me on my talk page. You were uncivil and trollish in your remark. Yami 04:07, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
- How long is this going to keep going? It's getting annoying to see so many edits about this page that it would be hard to spot a vandal if one were to pop up?--PsychicRider☮ 04:10, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
This is a talk page, who is going vandal a talk page, its the main article you should have on your watch list. and i dropped it but every time i leave 3 more shows up and put in their two cents and it seems like it won't stop until we have a dollar. Yami 04:16, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
This is ridiculous.
And likely the most edited talk page within 24 hours.
This talkpage can't be edited by anyone but sysops until the 13th.
We're gonna have a nice, long rest from this argument, get Platinum standard up and finished, and then... pa-ding, Platinum comes out. Ready, set, go! Now let's concentrate on that! TTEchidna 04:59, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
How do you even get to the default names, where can I find them, I mean. There are the 3 options that are there, like in Yellow the three are Red, Ash, and frickin' something else... where is these whole lists of freakin' names comming from...? KPF 05:11, 21 January 2009 (UTC)