Talk:Legendary beasts

Some accounts I have heard simply state that Raikou, Entei and Suicune were, after their immolation, simply resurrected, not reincarnated. If that's the case, then they were Entei, Suicune and Raikou BEFORE the disaster, and so not CREATED by Ho-Oh - just related to him by the ordeal of these three individuals. I have no citation, so I did not add this to the article. SixthFlyingMan 09:28, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Meh, speculation is speculation. Can't do much with it. Glinn Mgraw 15:09, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

This and the Eeveelutions as their original forms are contradictions to what is told about them. ::Because Ho-oh embodied them with the 3 events that happened and therefore they are now of the types Electric, Fire and Water.

A more logical theory however is that they were unevolved Eevees. There's even some information backing up this:

-Eevees evolve into Eeveelutions of the element they are exposed too (limited to the beasts types) and Ho-oh gave them an "overdose" of those elements by embodying them with these from the events (they are even statwise comparable).

-Along with this is the fact that Ecruteak City, the city in which the Brass Tower is located, has ties with the Eeveelutions. Even the Kimono sisters each possess an Eeveelution. This could indicate that the city either already had an abundance of Eevees at the time of the Trio's creation, which would explain why the three Eevees would have wandered into the tower, or it's ties with Eevees came from the destruction of the Brass Tower itself. Meaning that because the Legendary Beasts were created from Eevees, the city folk came to commonly raise Eevees in honor of the beasts. Roobaby9154 23:48, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

-the other thing is this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8t8Ly0hfXY

There are 3 Sages, the protectors of the Tin Tower, in Crystal and they use 1 of just those 3 Eeveelutions in battle. One could assume there have been eeveetrainers, protectors of the Brass Tower once, whose the Eevees that died could have been. --Saiph charon 09:04, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Dogs or Cats

I think that personally the beasts deserve to be called dogs more simple because each of them bears a resemblance to a dog, Suicune I think is the most because of his face and body shape. Raikou defeneatly has a canine body but a more cat looking face with it's teeth making him look like a saber tooth tiger. Entei looks about the most cat like I think it looks like a giant cat or lion kind of thing.

Calling them the legendary dogs is not really a correct term and is more of just an opinion. in my opinion, i like the idea of legendary cats better, but calling them the legendary beasts is more of a correct and collective term. Raikou in no way looks like a canine. Suicune has a lean canine body but has small cat feet, and Entei has a dog body but has a lion's face. So, legendary beasts is a better grouped term to call the trio considering that at least suicune and entei look part canine and part feline; as well as the fact that some people see more canine features in their anatomy while others see more feline features in their anatomy. --いぬみみ 23:46, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

I know I was just wondering what everyone else thought, I think it is a good term for keeping the peace in pokemon. Something sorely needed since the whole voice change over thing. De Wolfy is here 18:05, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

"Beasts" is best, because there's just too much of a division amongst the fanbase as to which animal group they should be associated with, so it's best to keep it ambiguous. It's almost as bad as the Eeveelutions. Lucentas 18:10, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Come on! You must be blind if you:

• Don't see Raikou's extreme similarity with a saber tooth tiger
• See Suicune's animated silhouette in the title screen of Crystal and don't think it runs exactly like a cheetah
• Don't think that Entei roars like a lion and has a lion-like face Spideym 01:23, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

I personally only see feline features in Raikou, Suicune is pretty obviously a wolf and Entei a big dog to me. But, that's exactly the reason they're the legendary beasts, because the fandom can't decide on cats or dogs.Reign 22:46, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

The beasts, from my perspective at least, are based off of the big cats for various reasons, and could not possibly be dogs for others. To start, Raikou is obviously feline with it's long, sabre-tooth fangs, tiger stripes, claws, whiskers (the blue spikes on his face), almond-shaped cat-like eyes, and muscular tiger body. Some say it resembles a bulldog because of it's jouls, or "cheeks", though this actually makes it resemble a cat even more as many cats have such chubby cheeks, too. Along with this, bulldog's tails are traditionally cropped, which is something not present on Raikou as it possesses a long, lightening bolt tail. It roars, as well as Entei (see the third Pokemon movie) which is a feature unknown to dogs, and Entei's roar in movie is identical to none other than. . . a lion's.

Entei, while sharing some qualities of a Mastiff (a large dog), is unmistakably a lion. Mastiffs and lions themselves share many features which could be why it causes such confusion. I own a bull mastiff dog, and we named him Leo because of that same fact- he resembles a lion. Continuing along with Entei, it has whiskers, muscular lion build, lion-like fangs, and retractable claws as seen in the anime. No type of dog is able to retract their claws. In Japan, the words bark and roar are the same word, which is why when translated into the Gold Pokedex, is says 'bark' rather than 'roar', another area in which confusion arose from. And no matter how many dog qualities Entei may or may not have, it has a mane, which cancels out any other possibility of being based off of anything but a lion.

Moving onto Suicune, who seems to raise the most controversy. Most pin Suicune as a wolf because of it's long snout and blue and purple coloring, which is close to gray, a typical wolf coloring. However, a yellow Suicine might highlight the more cheetah/leopard aspects of it, but because it is of the water type, cool colors such as blue, as opposed to warm colors fit in slightly better. Snow leopards have also been proposed as a possible cat for Suicune, which could be very likely. Wolves are unknown to have spots like the diamonds on the side of the beast's body, or such a agile body frame as Suicune. The silhouette of Suicune, as mentioned above me, brings out the lithe shape of a cheetah. Wolves also have a very shaggy, thick coat, (not to be confused with it's purple cape, for that is meant to portray the Aurora Borealis) which isn't present on Suicune. Despite what stats in the game, Suicune is the fastest of the trio, running all over Earth to purify water. Running has always been associated with cheetahs because of their speed. Suicune also is associated with the North Wind, reflecting a popular phrase, "run like the wind." Cheetahs are also cats not known to roar, explaining why it doesn't unlike the other members of the trio.

Pokemon are often based off of Asian folklore as well (ex. Ninetales/Vulpix and the Kitsune). Suicune has been confirmed to be loosely based off of Fūjin, the god of wind who wears a leopard skin. Fūjin is often associated with Raijin, the god of thunder (whom Raikou is based off of). Raijin's companion, Raijū, was supposedly a legendary creature of Japanese mythology who was composed of lightening and often took the form of a cat and had a roar which sounded like crashing thunder. Meaning that Raijū could be likely the inspiration rather than Raijin himself. And lastly, Entei, who is based off of the Chinese guardian lions.

Adding to the evidence of the trio stemming from big cats, if the theory of the trio coming from the Eeveelutions is true, it would only make sense that they are based off of cats. The Eeveelutions, while having fox-like qualities, are definitely based off of cats, too. Espeon is unmistakably a cat, along with Leafeon,Vaporeon, and Flareon. While Jolteon, Umbreon, Glaceon, and Eevee are still cats but with more fox-like qualities.

One more reason to believe they are cats is the fact that all other trios in the game are of the same type of species. The Kanto bird trio, are all. . . well, birds (Articuno, Moltres, Zapdos). The Johto trio, cats (Suicune, Entei, Raikou). The Hoenn trio, golems (Regirock, Registeel, Regiice). And the Sinnoh trio, fairies/pixies (Uxie, Mespirit, Azelf). Why would two be cats, and one be a dog? If you can easily identify one as a certain species, the others must be as well, collectively speaking.

Another thing often said is the trio can't be cats because cats are too small, which is completely idiotic. "Cat" is used to refer to household cats as well as the big, wild cats, which could easily be a part of the trio. And a lion, tiger, and (snow) leopard (or cheetah) are far mightier and majestic than a stumpy, short bulldog, mastiff, and wolf. Even bulldogs and mastiffs don't quite seem to fit in with a wolf.

All in all, they are Pokemon. Attributes from both felines and canines could have been used, however it is more safe to say "Legendary Beasts" as some fail to see the logic behind the true basis of the Legendary Trio of Johto. Roobaby9154 23:48, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Trivia point

I just read in the trivia that each legendary beast is the physical form of one of the three events that happened at Brass Tower when it was destroyed; Raikou was the lightning stike, Entei was the fire that started, and Suicune was the rain that put out the flames. Is this true? Has it ever been mentioned anywhere else? Bttsstewart 10:54, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

It was mentioned somewhere in the Gold/Silver/Crystal games in Ecruteak City. I don't remember which person you have to talk to though. --いぬみみ 02:00, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

The legendary POKéMON are said to embody three powers… The lightning that struck the TOWER. The fire that burned the TOWER. And the rain that put out the fire…

This is said by a member of the Wise Trio in Pokémon Crystal after the player encounters Ho‐oh. IIMarckus 02:04, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Oh, good. It's just, I treat fan assumptions with sceptism. Good to see its true. Bttsstewart 15:00, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Gerbils?

Who calls them "the Legendary Gerbils?" Sounds more to me like something that only the person who edited that in called them...Anyone know for a fact that "some circles" call them that? LordArceus 16:03, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

I could be wrong but i think the term came from the fact that fans were split between calling them the legendary dogs or the legendary cats. i guess some people thought, jokingly of course, that they might as well be called legendary gerbils because dogs, cats, and gerbils are all furry but there really isn't an opposite animal to gerbils. but again, it's just a term that was created from humor. --いぬみみ 22:45, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

I concur. theres no way that was in game or anime. no gerbilsDCM_{((曲奇饼妖怪Spy on My Edits))}

I've seen it around on several forums and fan sites; it's just a humorous fanon term. Lucentas 22:53, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

I'm not 100% sure, but I believe that it was me who was the first to refer to them as legendary gerbils. I'm Missingno. Master. See my new and improved user page, and comment on it! 03:15, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, on my Youtube account I have a video of their music and about half the comments say their legendary gerbils. Pokemonemerfan1954 06:20, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Origins idea?

Not my thought- this was brought up as an anonymous post on 420chan's /po/ but was surprisingly insightful, especially with the origins of the beasts and their roles in the game compared to what they were said to be in this metaphor. I suppose I will say this in two words: Dante's Inferno. In the first Canto of the Inferno, Dante is assaulted by "a lion, a leopard, and a she-wolf" (who symbolize the sins of self indulgence, violence, and malice, respectively).

Normally I would laugh away any attempt to explain where GameFreak got the basis for a monster without them explicitly stating it, but the simultaneous appearance of a lion (Entei), leopard (Raikou), and she-wolf (Suicune) in "Inferno" seems too conspicuous to ignore. Any thoughts on this? Extended analogies from Dante to prove/disprove? NonaSuomi

Doubtful, considering Entei and Raikou look nothing like a lion or leopard, and you can only make a weak comparison to Suicune as a wolf.Reign 09:31, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Ordering?

I'm seeing Raikou, Entei, and Suicune. That's according to the NDex numbers. Not sure if it's just me, but does anyone else see the same naming scheme as in the birds? Suicune' (pron. is Spanish for one) Raikou (rhymes two) and Entei (sorta like three). Which seems better?--Mew a.k.a. Immewnity was here at 22:30, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

You're reading too far into it this time. —darklordtrom 02:22, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

HeartGold/SoulSilver

It says elsewhere on the site that if suicune is KO'd in HGSS, it'll reappear in Burnt Tower, and keep reappearing until it's caught. Is the same also true of the other two legendary beasts? --Oatzy 20:38, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

Only Suicune reappears after being defeated. R.A. Hunter Blade 04:03, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Not true, Raikou and Entei also reappear after being defeated.. you just gotta beat the E4 (doesn't matter if it's the first time beating it or not). They just reappear in the wild, no need to re-summon. ▫▪Ťïňắ ^♫♥ 04:06, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

That's in the wild though, not the Burnt Tower, which was the question. Which is also why I didn't know they reappear in the wild, since I only checked the Tower... R.A. Hunter Blade 22:51, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Er, excuse me, but how can you catch them in HGSS? When I encounter one and use my Golbat and Mean Look to stop them, the beast Roar after about 5 turns.

Takaoldaria 13:38, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

That's more of a forum question, but whatever. I've always found Mean Look to be a waste of time, seeing as their HP and status carry over to your next battle with them. You can weaken them one move at a time, put them to sleep, and catch them if you're patient enough to track them down again each time they flee. --AndyPKMN 13:44, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

The effect of Roar makes your Pokémon run away if it's used by a wild Pokémon. Mean look only makes the other Pokémon unable to run away, until you switch out whatever used Mean Look, or if you flee from a wild battle. R.A. Hunter Blade 17:07, 2 June 2010 (UTC)