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Pokémon doll

2024-06-18T02:36:58Z

Weedle Mchairybug: /* In animation */

:''This article is about the game decoration. For the [[escape item]], see [[Poké Doll]]. For the plush toy line, see [[Poké Doll (plush)]].''
[[File:Pokémon dolls anime.png|thumb|350px|Pokémon dolls in ''[[Pokémon the Series]]'']]
A '''Pokémon doll''' (Japanese: '''ドール''' ''doll'') is a sort of [[decoration]] used in the Pokémon games.

==In the games==
===Generation I===
In [[Generation I]], decorations were not featured. Despite this, Pokémon dolls could be found decorating the {{OBP|Copycat|character}}'s room in [[Saffron City]]. When talked to, the doll would turn to the {{player}} and this message would appear: "This is a rare <sc>Pokémon</sc>! Huh? It's only a doll!"

===Generation II===
{{main|List of decorations (Generation II)}}
In [[Generation II]], dolls became available as a decoration for the bedroom. In these games, sometimes the player character's mother will buy dolls for his or her room with saved up money, but the most common way to receive them is with [[Mystery Gift]].

One feature of {{g|Stadium 2}} allows players to view their entire room and its decorations, including any dolls, in 3D. The 3D models of the dolls were reused in {{g|Channel}}, being available for purchase at [[Shop 'N Squirtle]].

:<div style="columns: 10em; widows: 1; orphans: 1; white-space: nowrap"><ab>
[[File:Doll Bulbasaur II.png]] {{p|Bulbasaur}} Doll
[[File:Doll Charmander II.png]] {{p|Charmander}} Doll
[[File:Doll Clefairy II.png]] {{p|Clefairy}} Doll
[[File:Doll Diglett II.png]] {{p|Diglett}} Doll
[[File:Doll Gengar II.png]] {{p|Gengar}} Doll
[[File:Doll Geodude II.png]] {{p|Geodude}} Doll
[[File:Doll Grimer II.png]] {{p|Grimer}} Doll
[[File:Doll Jigglypuff II.png]] {{p|Jigglypuff}} Doll
[[File:Doll Machop II.png]] {{p|Machop}} Doll
[[File:Doll Magikarp II.png]] {{p|Magikarp}} Doll
[[File:Doll Oddish II.png]] {{p|Oddish}} Doll
[[File:Doll Pikachu II.png]] {{p|Pikachu}} Doll
[[File:Doll Poliwag II.png]] {{p|Poliwag}} Doll
[[File:Doll Shellder II.png]] {{p|Shellder}} Doll
[[File:Doll Squirtle II.png]] {{p|Squirtle}} Doll
[[File:Doll Staryu II.png]] {{p|Staryu}} Doll
[[File:Doll Pikachu II.png]] {{p|Pikachu}} Doll
[[File:Doll Surf Pikachu II.png]] [[Surfing Pikachu|Surf Pikachu]] Doll
[[File:Doll Tentacool II.png]] {{p|Tentacool}} Doll
[[File:Doll Unown II.png]] {{p|Unown}} Doll
[[File:Doll Voltorb II.png]] {{p|Voltorb}} Doll
[[File:Doll Weedle II.png]] {{p|Weedle}} Doll
[[File:Doll Big Lapras II.png]] Big {{p|Lapras}}
[[File:Doll Big Onix II.png]] Big {{p|Onix}}
[[File:Doll Big Snorlax II.png]] Big {{p|Snorlax}}
</ab></div>

===Generation III===
{{main|List of decorations (Generation III)}}
In [[Generation III]], dolls can be used to decorate a [[Secret Base]], and can be either bought in various locations, such as at the marketplace in [[Slateport City]], at the [[Lilycove Department Store]], with coins at the [[Mauville Game Corner]] or with Battle Points at the {{Gdis|Battle Frontier|III}}. [[Lanette]] will also give one in exchange for keeping her messy house a secret. A girl in [[Sootopolis City]] will also give the player one. All dolls must be placed on a desk, a mat, or a certain kind of ornament. Large dolls can only be placed on large desks and large mats.

Dolls are not available in {{game|FireRed and LeafGreen|s}}, particularly because there are no Secret Bases in FireRed and LeafGreen. However, [[Lorelei]]'s house contains a number of dolls, since she collects them.

:<div style="columns: 10em; widows: 1; orphans: 1; white-space: nowrap"><ab>
[[File:Doll Azurill III.png]] {{p|Azurill}} Doll
[[File:Doll Baltoy III.png]] {{p|Baltoy}} Doll
[[File:Doll Chikorita III.png]] {{p|Chikorita}} Doll
[[File:Doll Clefairy III.png]] {{p|Clefairy}} Doll
[[File:Doll Cyndaquil III.png]] {{p|Cyndaquil}} Doll
[[File:Doll Ditto III.png]] {{p|Ditto}} Doll
[[File:Doll Duskull III.png]] {{p|Duskull}} Doll
[[File:Doll Gulpin III.png]] {{p|Gulpin}} Doll
[[File:Doll Jigglypuff III.png]] {{p|Jigglypuff}} Doll
[[File:Doll Kecleon III.png]] {{p|Kecleon}} Doll
[[File:Doll Lotad III.png]] {{p|Lotad}} Doll
[[File:Doll Marill III.png]] {{p|Marill}} Doll
[[File:Doll Meowth III.png]] {{p|Meowth}} Doll
[[File:Doll Mudkip III.png]] {{p|Mudkip}} Doll
[[File:Doll Pichu III.png]] {{p|Pichu}} Doll
[[File:Doll Pikachu III.png]] {{p|Pikachu}} Doll
[[File:Doll Seedot III.png]] {{p|Seedot}} Doll
[[File:Doll Skitty III.png]] {{p|Skitty}} Doll
[[File:Doll Smoochum III.png]] {{p|Smoochum}} Doll
[[File:Doll Swablu III.png]] {{p|Swablu}} Doll
[[File:Doll Togepi III.png]] {{p|Togepi}} Doll
[[File:Doll Torchic III.png]] {{p|Torchic}} Doll
[[File:Doll Totodile III.png]] {{p|Totodile}} Doll
[[File:Doll Treecko III.png]] {{p|Treecko}} Doll
[[File:Doll Wynaut III.png]] {{p|Wynaut}} Doll
[[File:Doll Blastoise III.png]] {{p|Blastoise}} Doll
[[File:Doll Charizard III.png]] {{p|Charizard}} Doll
[[File:Doll Lapras III.png]] {{p|Lapras}} Doll
[[File:Doll Rhydon III.png]] {{p|Rhydon}} Doll
[[File:Doll Snorlax III.png]] {{p|Snorlax}} Doll
[[File:Doll Venusaur III.png]] {{p|Venusaur}} Doll
[[File:Doll Wailmer III.png]] {{p|Wailmer}} Doll
[[File:Doll Regirock III.png]] {{p|Regirock}} Doll
[[File:Doll Regice III.png]] {{p|Regice}} Doll
[[File:Doll Registeel III.png]] {{p|Registeel}} Doll
</ab></div>

===Generation IV===
{{main|List of decoration goods (Generation IV)}}
Dolls, like many other decorations in [[Generation IV]], are available by trading [[sphere]]s to {{tc|Hiker}}s in the [[Underground]]. They are used to decorate the player's Secret Base in the underground. They can also be purchased in the fourth floor of the [[Veilstone Department Store]].

Instead of placing them on desks or mats, dolls, like many other decorations, cannot be placed on top of any other objects.

:<div style="columns: 10em; widows: 1; orphans: 1; white-space: nowrap"><ab>
[[File:Doll Bonsly IV.png]] {{p|Bonsly}} Doll
[[File:Doll Buizel IV.png]] {{p|Buizel}} Doll
[[File:Doll Bulbasaur IV.png]] {{p|Bulbasaur}} Doll
[[File:Doll Buneary IV.png]] {{p|Buneary}} Doll
[[File:Doll Charmander IV.png]] {{p|Charmander}} Doll
[[File:Doll Chatot IV.png]] {{p|Chatot}} Doll
[[File:Doll Chikorita IV.png]] {{p|Chikorita}} Doll
[[File:Doll Chimchar IV.png]] {{p|Chimchar}} Doll
[[File:Doll Clefairy IV.png]] {{p|Clefairy}} Doll
[[File:Doll Cyndaquil IV.png]] {{p|Cyndaquil}} Doll
[[File:Doll Drifloon IV.png]] {{p|Drifloon}} Doll
[[File:Doll Glameow IV.png]] {{p|Glameow}} Doll
[[File:Doll Happiny IV.png]] {{p|Happiny}} Doll
[[File:Doll Jigglypuff IV.png]] {{p|Jigglypuff}} Doll
[[File:Doll Lucario IV.png]] {{p|Lucario}} Doll
[[File:Doll Manaphy IV.png]] {{p|Manaphy}} Doll
[[File:Doll Mantyke IV.png]] {{p|Mantyke}} Doll
[[File:Doll Meowth IV.png]] {{p|Meowth}} Doll
[[File:Doll Mime Jr. IV.png]] {{p|Mime Jr.}} Doll
[[File:Doll Minun IV.png]] {{p|Minun}} Doll
[[File:Doll Mudkip IV.png]] {{p|Mudkip}} Doll
[[File:Doll Munchlax IV.png]] {{p|Munchlax}} Doll
[[File:Doll Pachirisu IV.png]] {{p|Pachirisu}} Doll
[[File:Doll Pikachu IV.png]] {{p|Pikachu}} Doll
[[File:Doll Piplup IV.png]] {{p|Piplup}} Doll
[[File:Doll Plusle IV.png]] {{p|Plusle}} Doll
[[File:Doll Skitty IV.png]] {{p|Skitty}} Doll
[[File:Doll Squirtle IV.png]] {{p|Squirtle}} Doll
[[File:Doll Torchic IV.png]] {{p|Torchic}} Doll
[[File:Doll Totodile IV.png]] {{p|Totodile}} Doll
[[File:Doll Treecko IV.png]] {{p|Treecko}} Doll
[[File:Doll Turtwig IV.png]] {{p|Turtwig}} Doll
[[File:Doll Weavile IV.png]] {{p|Weavile}} Doll
[[File:Doll Wobbuffet IV.png]] {{p|Wobbuffet}} Doll
[[File:Doll Magnezone IV.png]] {{p|Magnezone}} Doll
[[File:Doll Snorlax IV.png]] {{p|Snorlax}} Doll
[[File:Doll Wailord IV.png]] {{p|Wailord}} Doll
</ab></div>

===Generation V===
{{main|Pokémon Doll Catalogue}}
In the {{g|Dream World}}, dolls are a kind of [[Décor]], and are all contained in the Pokémon Doll Catalogue.

===Generation VI===
{{main|List of Decorations (Generation VI)}}
These dolls are only available in {{g|Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire}} as Secret Base decorations.

:<div style="columns: 10em; widows: 1; orphans: 1; white-space: nowrap"><ab>
[[File:Doll Azurill VI.png|40x40px]] {{p|Azurill}} Doll
[[File:Doll Baltoy VI.png|40x40px]] {{p|Baltoy}} Doll
[[File:Doll Chikorita VI.png|40x40px]] {{p|Chikorita}} Doll
[[File:Doll Clefairy VI.png|40x40px]] {{p|Clefairy}} Doll
[[File:Doll Cyndaquil VI.png|40x40px]] {{p|Cyndaquil}} Doll
[[File:Doll Ditto VI.png|40x40px]] {{p|Ditto}} Doll
[[File:Doll Duskull VI.png|40x40px]] {{p|Duskull}} Doll
[[File:Doll Gulpin VI.png|40x40px]] {{p|Gulpin}} Doll
[[File:Doll Invisible VI.png|40x40px]] Invisible Doll
[[File:Doll Jigglypuff VI.png|40x40px]] {{p|Jigglypuff}} Doll
[[File:Doll Kecleon VI.png|40x40px]] {{p|Kecleon}} Doll
[[File:Doll Lotad VI.png|40x40px]] {{p|Lotad}} Doll
[[File:Doll Marill VI.png|40x40px]] {{p|Marill}} Doll
[[File:Doll Meowth VI.png|40x40px]] {{p|Meowth}} Doll
[[File:Doll Mudkip VI.png|40x40px]] {{p|Mudkip}} Doll
[[File:Doll Pichu VI.png|40x40px]] {{p|Pichu}} Doll
[[File:Doll Pikachu VI.png|40x40px]] {{p|Pikachu}} Doll
[[File:Doll Seedot VI.png|40x40px]] {{p|Seedot}} Doll
[[File:Doll Skitty VI.png|40x40px]] {{p|Skitty}} Doll
[[File:Doll Smoochum VI.png|40x40px]] {{p|Smoochum}} Doll
[[File:Doll Snorlax VI.png|40x40px]] {{p|Snorlax}} Doll
[[File:Doll Swablu VI.png|40x40px]] {{p|Swablu}} Doll
[[File:Doll Togepi VI.png|40x40px]] {{p|Togepi}} Doll
[[File:Doll Torchic VI.png|40x40px]] {{p|Torchic}} Doll
[[File:Doll Totodile VI.png|40x40px]] {{p|Totodile}} Doll
[[File:Doll Treecko VI.png|40x40px]] {{p|Treecko}} Doll
[[File:Doll Wynaut VI.png|40x40px]] {{p|Wynaut}} Doll
[[File:Doll Blastoise VI.png|40x40px]] {{p|Blastoise}} Doll
[[File:Doll Charizard VI.png|40x40px]] {{p|Charizard}} Doll
[[File:Doll Lapras VI.png|40x40px]] {{p|Lapras}} Doll
[[File:Doll Regice VI.png|40x40px]] {{p|Regice}} Doll
[[File:Doll Regirock VI.png|40x40px]] {{p|Regirock}} Doll
[[File:Doll Registeel VI.png|40x40px]] {{p|Registeel}} Doll
[[File:Doll Rhydon VI.png|40x40px]] {{p|Rhydon}} Doll
[[File:Doll Substitute VI.png|40x40px]] {{OBP|Substitute|doll}} Doll
[[File:Doll Venusaur VI.png|40x40px]] {{p|Venusaur}} Doll
[[File:Doll Wailmer VI.png|40x40px]] {{p|Wailmer}} Doll
</ab></div>

==In the spin-off games==
===Pokémon UNITE===
A {{p|Shedinja}} Doll is one of the available Battle Items in {{g|UNITE}}, when activated it gives the player's Pokémon a brief period of invincibility with the drawback of being unable to act.

==In animation==
[[File:AG059 dub edit original.png|thumb|220px|Pokémon dolls in ''[[AG059|Manectric Charge]]'']]
[[File:Substitute doll anime.png|thumb|left|250px|A [[Substitute (doll)|substitute doll]] in ''[[Pokémon the Series]]'']]

In ''[[EP052|Princess vs. Princess]]'', a special set of Pokémon dolls was issued as a prize for the [[Queen of the Princess Festival]] contest during the [[Princess Festival]], composed of a Pikachu and Clefairy at the top tier, a Squirtle, Bulbasaur, and Charmander on the second tier, and a Jynx, Jigglypuff, Chansey, Poliwhirl, and Slowpoke on the bottom tier.

In ''[[EP203|The Screen Actor's Guilt]]'', after [[Brad]]'s {{p|Smoochum}} had become popular with his fans and began its own fledgling movie career, Smoochum dolls became a popular item to carry around.

Pokémon dolls of {{p|Zigzagoon}} and {{p|Azurill}} appeared in ''[[AG027|A Three Team Scheme!]]'', decorating [[Keanu]]'s [[Secret Base]]. However, they were removed in the [[dub]].

Pokémon dolls of {{p|Phanpy}}, {{p|Hoppip}}, {{p|Hoothoot}}, {{p|Wurmple}}, {{p|Marill}}, Azurill, {{p|Pikachu}}, {{p|Torchic}}, and {{p|Mudkip}} appeared in ''[[AG059|Manectric Charge]]'' as prizes at a fake carnival set up by {{TRT}}. However, like in ''A Three Team Scheme!'', these dolls were removed in the dub, being replaced with various other items.

An entire store of Pokémon dolls appeared in ''[[XY016|A Jolting Switcheroo!]]''.

Several [[Substitute (doll)|substitute dolls]] appear recurringly throughout the series.

Pokémon dolls of {{p|Lapras}}, Pikachu, {{p|Clefairy}}, and {{p|Eevee}} appeared in ''[[SM008|Lillie's Egg-xhilarating Challenge!]]'', decorating {{an|Lillie}}'s room.

In ''[[SM049|Mission: Total Recall!]]'', several Pokémon dolls are seen inside the [[Aether House|Aether Paradise House]].

Dolls of {{p|Poliwrath}}, {{rf|Alolan}} {{p|Muk}}, and Alolan {{p|Golem}} appeared in ''[[SM092|Turning the Other Mask!]]'' during the Masked Royal's demonstration.

Dolls of {{p|Charizard}}, {{p|Blastoise}}, and {{p|Jigglypuff}} were seen in [[Goh]]'s room in ''[[JN015|A Snow Day for Searching!]]''.
{{-}}

==In the manga==
[[File:Mirei HGSS Adventures.png|thumb|150px|A Marill doll in [[Pokémon Adventures]]]]
===Pokémon Adventures===
===={{MangaArc|Ruby & Sapphire}}====
Pokémon dolls first appeared in ''[[PS250|The Beginning of the End with Kyogre & Groudon XII]]''. They were seen on shelves for sale in [[Lilycove Department Store]] during [[Wallace]]'s battle against [[Tabitha]].

In ''[[PS267|It All Ends Now VIII]]'', {{adv|Sapphire}} found her [[Secret Base]] decorated by {{adv|Ruby}} with various items and furniture, including dolls of {{p|Swablu}}, {{p|Torchic}}, {{p|Mudkip}}, {{p|Jigglypuff}}, and {{p|Marill}}.

===={{MangaArc|FireRed & LeafGreen}}====
In ''[[PS277|A Beastly Cold Reception]]'', the interior of [[Lorelei]]'s house on {{OBP|Four Island|town}} was shown with her many dolls.

===={{MangaArc|HeartGold & SoulSilver}}====
In ''[[PS447|Fortunately for Feraligatr]]'', [[Mirei]] was seen holding a {{p|Marill}} doll.

===={{MangaArc|Omega Ruby & Alpha Sapphire}}====
In ''[[PS601|Beedrill Prepares]]'', {{adv|Emerald}} discovered several Pokémon dolls aboard the [[Sea Mauville]]. {{TP|Ruby|Plusle}} and {{TP|Sapphire|Minun}} stood amongst them, pretending to be dolls before surprising and shocking Emerald.

In ''[[PAORAS21|Omega Alpha Adventure 21]]'', a [[Substitute (doll)|substitute doll]] appeared as one the many items that {{p|Hoopa}} pulled out of its ring while searching for a [[Diancite]] for Ruby.

===={{MangaArc|Sun, Moon, Ultra Sun & Ultra Moon}}====
In ''[[PASM16|A Photoshoot and the Abandoned Thrifty Megamart]]'', dolls of {{p|Pikachu}} and Marill appeared inside the {{OBP|Thrifty Megamart|Abandoned Site|abandoned Thrifty Megamart}}. {{adv|Sun}} initially mistook {{pkmn2|Totem}} {{p|Mimikyu}} for another doll and made fun of its appearance, causing it to start attacking him.

==In other languages==
{{langtable|color=AFA|bordercolor=FAA
|fr=Poupée Pokémon
|de=Poképuppe
|it=Bambola Pokémon
|ko=인형 ''Inhyeong''
|pl=Lalka Pokémon
|es=Pokémuñeco
}}
{{-}}
{{Project ItemDex notice}}

[[Category:Pokémon world]]
[[Category:Items]]
[[Category:Decorations]]

[[es:Muñeco]]
[[fr:Poupée]]
[[it:Bambole Pokémon]]

Pokémon doll

2024-06-18T02:36:30Z

Weedle Mchairybug: /* In animation */ Considering their fairly major role during that episode, I'm actually surprised their appearance in Princess vs. Princess wasn't mentioned earlier.

:''This article is about the game decoration. For the [[escape item]], see [[Poké Doll]]. For the plush toy line, see [[Poké Doll (plush)]].''
[[File:Pokémon dolls anime.png|thumb|350px|Pokémon dolls in ''[[Pokémon the Series]]'']]
A '''Pokémon doll''' (Japanese: '''ドール''' ''doll'') is a sort of [[decoration]] used in the Pokémon games.

==In the games==
===Generation I===
In [[Generation I]], decorations were not featured. Despite this, Pokémon dolls could be found decorating the {{OBP|Copycat|character}}'s room in [[Saffron City]]. When talked to, the doll would turn to the {{player}} and this message would appear: "This is a rare <sc>Pokémon</sc>! Huh? It's only a doll!"

===Generation II===
{{main|List of decorations (Generation II)}}
In [[Generation II]], dolls became available as a decoration for the bedroom. In these games, sometimes the player character's mother will buy dolls for his or her room with saved up money, but the most common way to receive them is with [[Mystery Gift]].

One feature of {{g|Stadium 2}} allows players to view their entire room and its decorations, including any dolls, in 3D. The 3D models of the dolls were reused in {{g|Channel}}, being available for purchase at [[Shop 'N Squirtle]].

:<div style="columns: 10em; widows: 1; orphans: 1; white-space: nowrap"><ab>
[[File:Doll Bulbasaur II.png]] {{p|Bulbasaur}} Doll
[[File:Doll Charmander II.png]] {{p|Charmander}} Doll
[[File:Doll Clefairy II.png]] {{p|Clefairy}} Doll
[[File:Doll Diglett II.png]] {{p|Diglett}} Doll
[[File:Doll Gengar II.png]] {{p|Gengar}} Doll
[[File:Doll Geodude II.png]] {{p|Geodude}} Doll
[[File:Doll Grimer II.png]] {{p|Grimer}} Doll
[[File:Doll Jigglypuff II.png]] {{p|Jigglypuff}} Doll
[[File:Doll Machop II.png]] {{p|Machop}} Doll
[[File:Doll Magikarp II.png]] {{p|Magikarp}} Doll
[[File:Doll Oddish II.png]] {{p|Oddish}} Doll
[[File:Doll Pikachu II.png]] {{p|Pikachu}} Doll
[[File:Doll Poliwag II.png]] {{p|Poliwag}} Doll
[[File:Doll Shellder II.png]] {{p|Shellder}} Doll
[[File:Doll Squirtle II.png]] {{p|Squirtle}} Doll
[[File:Doll Staryu II.png]] {{p|Staryu}} Doll
[[File:Doll Pikachu II.png]] {{p|Pikachu}} Doll
[[File:Doll Surf Pikachu II.png]] [[Surfing Pikachu|Surf Pikachu]] Doll
[[File:Doll Tentacool II.png]] {{p|Tentacool}} Doll
[[File:Doll Unown II.png]] {{p|Unown}} Doll
[[File:Doll Voltorb II.png]] {{p|Voltorb}} Doll
[[File:Doll Weedle II.png]] {{p|Weedle}} Doll
[[File:Doll Big Lapras II.png]] Big {{p|Lapras}}
[[File:Doll Big Onix II.png]] Big {{p|Onix}}
[[File:Doll Big Snorlax II.png]] Big {{p|Snorlax}}
</ab></div>

===Generation III===
{{main|List of decorations (Generation III)}}
In [[Generation III]], dolls can be used to decorate a [[Secret Base]], and can be either bought in various locations, such as at the marketplace in [[Slateport City]], at the [[Lilycove Department Store]], with coins at the [[Mauville Game Corner]] or with Battle Points at the {{Gdis|Battle Frontier|III}}. [[Lanette]] will also give one in exchange for keeping her messy house a secret. A girl in [[Sootopolis City]] will also give the player one. All dolls must be placed on a desk, a mat, or a certain kind of ornament. Large dolls can only be placed on large desks and large mats.

Dolls are not available in {{game|FireRed and LeafGreen|s}}, particularly because there are no Secret Bases in FireRed and LeafGreen. However, [[Lorelei]]'s house contains a number of dolls, since she collects them.

:<div style="columns: 10em; widows: 1; orphans: 1; white-space: nowrap"><ab>
[[File:Doll Azurill III.png]] {{p|Azurill}} Doll
[[File:Doll Baltoy III.png]] {{p|Baltoy}} Doll
[[File:Doll Chikorita III.png]] {{p|Chikorita}} Doll
[[File:Doll Clefairy III.png]] {{p|Clefairy}} Doll
[[File:Doll Cyndaquil III.png]] {{p|Cyndaquil}} Doll
[[File:Doll Ditto III.png]] {{p|Ditto}} Doll
[[File:Doll Duskull III.png]] {{p|Duskull}} Doll
[[File:Doll Gulpin III.png]] {{p|Gulpin}} Doll
[[File:Doll Jigglypuff III.png]] {{p|Jigglypuff}} Doll
[[File:Doll Kecleon III.png]] {{p|Kecleon}} Doll
[[File:Doll Lotad III.png]] {{p|Lotad}} Doll
[[File:Doll Marill III.png]] {{p|Marill}} Doll
[[File:Doll Meowth III.png]] {{p|Meowth}} Doll
[[File:Doll Mudkip III.png]] {{p|Mudkip}} Doll
[[File:Doll Pichu III.png]] {{p|Pichu}} Doll
[[File:Doll Pikachu III.png]] {{p|Pikachu}} Doll
[[File:Doll Seedot III.png]] {{p|Seedot}} Doll
[[File:Doll Skitty III.png]] {{p|Skitty}} Doll
[[File:Doll Smoochum III.png]] {{p|Smoochum}} Doll
[[File:Doll Swablu III.png]] {{p|Swablu}} Doll
[[File:Doll Togepi III.png]] {{p|Togepi}} Doll
[[File:Doll Torchic III.png]] {{p|Torchic}} Doll
[[File:Doll Totodile III.png]] {{p|Totodile}} Doll
[[File:Doll Treecko III.png]] {{p|Treecko}} Doll
[[File:Doll Wynaut III.png]] {{p|Wynaut}} Doll
[[File:Doll Blastoise III.png]] {{p|Blastoise}} Doll
[[File:Doll Charizard III.png]] {{p|Charizard}} Doll
[[File:Doll Lapras III.png]] {{p|Lapras}} Doll
[[File:Doll Rhydon III.png]] {{p|Rhydon}} Doll
[[File:Doll Snorlax III.png]] {{p|Snorlax}} Doll
[[File:Doll Venusaur III.png]] {{p|Venusaur}} Doll
[[File:Doll Wailmer III.png]] {{p|Wailmer}} Doll
[[File:Doll Regirock III.png]] {{p|Regirock}} Doll
[[File:Doll Regice III.png]] {{p|Regice}} Doll
[[File:Doll Registeel III.png]] {{p|Registeel}} Doll
</ab></div>

===Generation IV===
{{main|List of decoration goods (Generation IV)}}
Dolls, like many other decorations in [[Generation IV]], are available by trading [[sphere]]s to {{tc|Hiker}}s in the [[Underground]]. They are used to decorate the player's Secret Base in the underground. They can also be purchased in the fourth floor of the [[Veilstone Department Store]].

Instead of placing them on desks or mats, dolls, like many other decorations, cannot be placed on top of any other objects.

:<div style="columns: 10em; widows: 1; orphans: 1; white-space: nowrap"><ab>
[[File:Doll Bonsly IV.png]] {{p|Bonsly}} Doll
[[File:Doll Buizel IV.png]] {{p|Buizel}} Doll
[[File:Doll Bulbasaur IV.png]] {{p|Bulbasaur}} Doll
[[File:Doll Buneary IV.png]] {{p|Buneary}} Doll
[[File:Doll Charmander IV.png]] {{p|Charmander}} Doll
[[File:Doll Chatot IV.png]] {{p|Chatot}} Doll
[[File:Doll Chikorita IV.png]] {{p|Chikorita}} Doll
[[File:Doll Chimchar IV.png]] {{p|Chimchar}} Doll
[[File:Doll Clefairy IV.png]] {{p|Clefairy}} Doll
[[File:Doll Cyndaquil IV.png]] {{p|Cyndaquil}} Doll
[[File:Doll Drifloon IV.png]] {{p|Drifloon}} Doll
[[File:Doll Glameow IV.png]] {{p|Glameow}} Doll
[[File:Doll Happiny IV.png]] {{p|Happiny}} Doll
[[File:Doll Jigglypuff IV.png]] {{p|Jigglypuff}} Doll
[[File:Doll Lucario IV.png]] {{p|Lucario}} Doll
[[File:Doll Manaphy IV.png]] {{p|Manaphy}} Doll
[[File:Doll Mantyke IV.png]] {{p|Mantyke}} Doll
[[File:Doll Meowth IV.png]] {{p|Meowth}} Doll
[[File:Doll Mime Jr. IV.png]] {{p|Mime Jr.}} Doll
[[File:Doll Minun IV.png]] {{p|Minun}} Doll
[[File:Doll Mudkip IV.png]] {{p|Mudkip}} Doll
[[File:Doll Munchlax IV.png]] {{p|Munchlax}} Doll
[[File:Doll Pachirisu IV.png]] {{p|Pachirisu}} Doll
[[File:Doll Pikachu IV.png]] {{p|Pikachu}} Doll
[[File:Doll Piplup IV.png]] {{p|Piplup}} Doll
[[File:Doll Plusle IV.png]] {{p|Plusle}} Doll
[[File:Doll Skitty IV.png]] {{p|Skitty}} Doll
[[File:Doll Squirtle IV.png]] {{p|Squirtle}} Doll
[[File:Doll Torchic IV.png]] {{p|Torchic}} Doll
[[File:Doll Totodile IV.png]] {{p|Totodile}} Doll
[[File:Doll Treecko IV.png]] {{p|Treecko}} Doll
[[File:Doll Turtwig IV.png]] {{p|Turtwig}} Doll
[[File:Doll Weavile IV.png]] {{p|Weavile}} Doll
[[File:Doll Wobbuffet IV.png]] {{p|Wobbuffet}} Doll
[[File:Doll Magnezone IV.png]] {{p|Magnezone}} Doll
[[File:Doll Snorlax IV.png]] {{p|Snorlax}} Doll
[[File:Doll Wailord IV.png]] {{p|Wailord}} Doll
</ab></div>

===Generation V===
{{main|Pokémon Doll Catalogue}}
In the {{g|Dream World}}, dolls are a kind of [[Décor]], and are all contained in the Pokémon Doll Catalogue.

===Generation VI===
{{main|List of Decorations (Generation VI)}}
These dolls are only available in {{g|Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire}} as Secret Base decorations.

:<div style="columns: 10em; widows: 1; orphans: 1; white-space: nowrap"><ab>
[[File:Doll Azurill VI.png|40x40px]] {{p|Azurill}} Doll
[[File:Doll Baltoy VI.png|40x40px]] {{p|Baltoy}} Doll
[[File:Doll Chikorita VI.png|40x40px]] {{p|Chikorita}} Doll
[[File:Doll Clefairy VI.png|40x40px]] {{p|Clefairy}} Doll
[[File:Doll Cyndaquil VI.png|40x40px]] {{p|Cyndaquil}} Doll
[[File:Doll Ditto VI.png|40x40px]] {{p|Ditto}} Doll
[[File:Doll Duskull VI.png|40x40px]] {{p|Duskull}} Doll
[[File:Doll Gulpin VI.png|40x40px]] {{p|Gulpin}} Doll
[[File:Doll Invisible VI.png|40x40px]] Invisible Doll
[[File:Doll Jigglypuff VI.png|40x40px]] {{p|Jigglypuff}} Doll
[[File:Doll Kecleon VI.png|40x40px]] {{p|Kecleon}} Doll
[[File:Doll Lotad VI.png|40x40px]] {{p|Lotad}} Doll
[[File:Doll Marill VI.png|40x40px]] {{p|Marill}} Doll
[[File:Doll Meowth VI.png|40x40px]] {{p|Meowth}} Doll
[[File:Doll Mudkip VI.png|40x40px]] {{p|Mudkip}} Doll
[[File:Doll Pichu VI.png|40x40px]] {{p|Pichu}} Doll
[[File:Doll Pikachu VI.png|40x40px]] {{p|Pikachu}} Doll
[[File:Doll Seedot VI.png|40x40px]] {{p|Seedot}} Doll
[[File:Doll Skitty VI.png|40x40px]] {{p|Skitty}} Doll
[[File:Doll Smoochum VI.png|40x40px]] {{p|Smoochum}} Doll
[[File:Doll Snorlax VI.png|40x40px]] {{p|Snorlax}} Doll
[[File:Doll Swablu VI.png|40x40px]] {{p|Swablu}} Doll
[[File:Doll Togepi VI.png|40x40px]] {{p|Togepi}} Doll
[[File:Doll Torchic VI.png|40x40px]] {{p|Torchic}} Doll
[[File:Doll Totodile VI.png|40x40px]] {{p|Totodile}} Doll
[[File:Doll Treecko VI.png|40x40px]] {{p|Treecko}} Doll
[[File:Doll Wynaut VI.png|40x40px]] {{p|Wynaut}} Doll
[[File:Doll Blastoise VI.png|40x40px]] {{p|Blastoise}} Doll
[[File:Doll Charizard VI.png|40x40px]] {{p|Charizard}} Doll
[[File:Doll Lapras VI.png|40x40px]] {{p|Lapras}} Doll
[[File:Doll Regice VI.png|40x40px]] {{p|Regice}} Doll
[[File:Doll Regirock VI.png|40x40px]] {{p|Regirock}} Doll
[[File:Doll Registeel VI.png|40x40px]] {{p|Registeel}} Doll
[[File:Doll Rhydon VI.png|40x40px]] {{p|Rhydon}} Doll
[[File:Doll Substitute VI.png|40x40px]] {{OBP|Substitute|doll}} Doll
[[File:Doll Venusaur VI.png|40x40px]] {{p|Venusaur}} Doll
[[File:Doll Wailmer VI.png|40x40px]] {{p|Wailmer}} Doll
</ab></div>

==In the spin-off games==
===Pokémon UNITE===
A {{p|Shedinja}} Doll is one of the available Battle Items in {{g|UNITE}}, when activated it gives the player's Pokémon a brief period of invincibility with the drawback of being unable to act.

==In animation==
[[File:AG059 dub edit original.png|thumb|220px|Pokémon dolls in ''[[AG059|Manectric Charge]]'']]
[[File:Substitute doll anime.png|thumb|left|250px|A [[Substitute (doll)|substitute doll]] in ''[[Pokémon the Series]]'']]

In ''[[EP052|Princess vs. Princess]]'', a special set of Pokémon dolls was issued as a prize for the [[Queen of the Princess Festival Contest]] during the [[Princess Festival]], composed of a Pikachu and Clefairy at the top tier, a Squirtle, Bulbasaur, and Charmander on the second tier, and a Jynx, Jigglypuff, Chansey, Poliwhirl, and Slowpoke on the bottom tier.

In ''[[EP203|The Screen Actor's Guilt]]'', after [[Brad]]'s {{p|Smoochum}} had become popular with his fans and began its own fledgling movie career, Smoochum dolls became a popular item to carry around.

Pokémon dolls of {{p|Zigzagoon}} and {{p|Azurill}} appeared in ''[[AG027|A Three Team Scheme!]]'', decorating [[Keanu]]'s [[Secret Base]]. However, they were removed in the [[dub]].

Pokémon dolls of {{p|Phanpy}}, {{p|Hoppip}}, {{p|Hoothoot}}, {{p|Wurmple}}, {{p|Marill}}, Azurill, {{p|Pikachu}}, {{p|Torchic}}, and {{p|Mudkip}} appeared in ''[[AG059|Manectric Charge]]'' as prizes at a fake carnival set up by {{TRT}}. However, like in ''A Three Team Scheme!'', these dolls were removed in the dub, being replaced with various other items.

An entire store of Pokémon dolls appeared in ''[[XY016|A Jolting Switcheroo!]]''.

Several [[Substitute (doll)|substitute dolls]] appear recurringly throughout the series.

Pokémon dolls of {{p|Lapras}}, Pikachu, {{p|Clefairy}}, and {{p|Eevee}} appeared in ''[[SM008|Lillie's Egg-xhilarating Challenge!]]'', decorating {{an|Lillie}}'s room.

In ''[[SM049|Mission: Total Recall!]]'', several Pokémon dolls are seen inside the [[Aether House|Aether Paradise House]].

Dolls of {{p|Poliwrath}}, {{rf|Alolan}} {{p|Muk}}, and Alolan {{p|Golem}} appeared in ''[[SM092|Turning the Other Mask!]]'' during the Masked Royal's demonstration.

Dolls of {{p|Charizard}}, {{p|Blastoise}}, and {{p|Jigglypuff}} were seen in [[Goh]]'s room in ''[[JN015|A Snow Day for Searching!]]''.
{{-}}

==In the manga==
[[File:Mirei HGSS Adventures.png|thumb|150px|A Marill doll in [[Pokémon Adventures]]]]
===Pokémon Adventures===
===={{MangaArc|Ruby & Sapphire}}====
Pokémon dolls first appeared in ''[[PS250|The Beginning of the End with Kyogre & Groudon XII]]''. They were seen on shelves for sale in [[Lilycove Department Store]] during [[Wallace]]'s battle against [[Tabitha]].

In ''[[PS267|It All Ends Now VIII]]'', {{adv|Sapphire}} found her [[Secret Base]] decorated by {{adv|Ruby}} with various items and furniture, including dolls of {{p|Swablu}}, {{p|Torchic}}, {{p|Mudkip}}, {{p|Jigglypuff}}, and {{p|Marill}}.

===={{MangaArc|FireRed & LeafGreen}}====
In ''[[PS277|A Beastly Cold Reception]]'', the interior of [[Lorelei]]'s house on {{OBP|Four Island|town}} was shown with her many dolls.

===={{MangaArc|HeartGold & SoulSilver}}====
In ''[[PS447|Fortunately for Feraligatr]]'', [[Mirei]] was seen holding a {{p|Marill}} doll.

===={{MangaArc|Omega Ruby & Alpha Sapphire}}====
In ''[[PS601|Beedrill Prepares]]'', {{adv|Emerald}} discovered several Pokémon dolls aboard the [[Sea Mauville]]. {{TP|Ruby|Plusle}} and {{TP|Sapphire|Minun}} stood amongst them, pretending to be dolls before surprising and shocking Emerald.

In ''[[PAORAS21|Omega Alpha Adventure 21]]'', a [[Substitute (doll)|substitute doll]] appeared as one the many items that {{p|Hoopa}} pulled out of its ring while searching for a [[Diancite]] for Ruby.

===={{MangaArc|Sun, Moon, Ultra Sun & Ultra Moon}}====
In ''[[PASM16|A Photoshoot and the Abandoned Thrifty Megamart]]'', dolls of {{p|Pikachu}} and Marill appeared inside the {{OBP|Thrifty Megamart|Abandoned Site|abandoned Thrifty Megamart}}. {{adv|Sun}} initially mistook {{pkmn2|Totem}} {{p|Mimikyu}} for another doll and made fun of its appearance, causing it to start attacking him.

==In other languages==
{{langtable|color=AFA|bordercolor=FAA
|fr=Poupée Pokémon
|de=Poképuppe
|it=Bambola Pokémon
|ko=인형 ''Inhyeong''
|pl=Lalka Pokémon
|es=Pokémuñeco
}}
{{-}}
{{Project ItemDex notice}}

[[Category:Pokémon world]]
[[Category:Items]]
[[Category:Decorations]]

[[es:Muñeco]]
[[fr:Poupée]]
[[it:Bambole Pokémon]]

Holiday Hi-Jynx

2024-06-17T20:34:14Z

Weedle Mchairybug: /* Scheduling conflict */ Also noting the reference was in the Japanese version, as the English dub, most likely due to their not even airing that episode yet, omitted the reference to have Meowth mention it was a popular holiday among girls.

{{DISPLAYTITLE:''Holiday Hi-Jynx''}}
{{PrevNext|
prev=EP038 |
next=''Snow Way Out!'' |
nextlink=Snow Way Out! |
series=Original series |
list=original series episodes |
colorscheme=Kanto}}
{{EpisodeInfoboxSpecial|
colorscheme=Kanto|
title_en=Holiday Hi-Jynx |
title_ja=ルージュラのクリスマス |
title_ja_trans=Rougela's Christmas |
screen=yes |
screenshot=Holiday Hi-Jynx.png|
broadcast_jp=October 5, 1998 |
broadcast_us=December 11, 1999 |
en_series=Indigo League |
en_op=[[Pokémon Theme]] |
ja_op=[[Aim to Be a Pokémon Master|めざせポケモンマスター]] |
ja_ed=[[Meowth's Song|ニャースのうた]] |
olmteam=Team Ota |
scenario=園田英樹|
storyboard=浅田裕二|
director=浅田裕二|
art=酒井啓史|
morecredits=yes |
epstaffpage=specials |
footnotes=*{{filb-eppics|pm|065}}
}}
'''Holiday Hi-Jynx''' (Japanese: '''ルージュラのクリスマス''' ''{{tt|Rougela|Jynx}}'s Christmas'') is a special episode of the [[Pokémon anime]]. It was first broadcast in Japan on October 5, 1998, along with ''[[Snow Way Out!]]'', and in the United States on December 11, 1999. It was initially intended to be the 39th episode of the Pokémon anime, airing in Japan on December 23, 1997, but was rescheduled following the [[EP038]] incident.

On December 23, 2012, the 15th anniversary of the episode's originally-planned broadcast date, it aired on ''[[Pokémon Smash!]]'' and was edited to make all of the {{p|Jynx}}'s skin purple instead of black. This version has not been dubbed, so it is still [[Banned episodes|banned]] in the United States. The Japanese versions of [[Prime Video]] and [[Netflix]] have the edited version while [[Hulu]] has the original version.

{{spoilers}}

==Blurb==

Ash and his friends run into a scared and lonely Jynx who has a boot belonging to Santa Claus but can't find its way to the North Pole. Team Rocket is convinced that Jynx really is Santa Claus and Jessie wants revenge from something that happened in her childhood. Can Ash beat the odds and return Jynx to its Master before Team Rocket gets a hold of it?

==Plot==
It is [[Christmas]], and kids everywhere are waiting for their presents from [[Santa]], including the resident of a distant castle, [[Jessie]]. She pretends to be asleep, as the door to her room is slowly opened by Santa. He becomes trapped in a net, and unable to move. Jessie and {{MTR}} are enthusiastic about their capture, and cannot wait for the ''real'' Santa to come to be trapped, as this person had been [[James]] in a Santa suit.

Jessie recalls the night 10 years ago when she stopped believing in Santa. When waiting awake for him, a {{p|Jynx}} appeared from the chimney and does nothing but take her doll, broken and thrown to the fireplace moments earlier by Jessie in her waiting enthusiasm. James and Meowth doubt Jessie's story, but Jessie is insistent that this occurred, and that Santa is a Jynx.

Meanwhile, in the southern part of the [[Kanto]] [[region]], {{Ash}} and {{ashfr}} are scouting out a Jynx on a sunny beach, who is holding a single black boot. Ash attempts to [[Caught Pokémon|capture]] it, however, it does not work, and the Jynx's {{m|Lovely Kiss}} manages to defeat {{AP|Pikachu}}. {{an|Brock}} deduces that it must have a {{pkmn|Trainer}}. {{an|Misty}} is given the boot by the Jynx, and sees that it belongs to Santa, as an image is sewn to the inside. After Jynx telepathically tells its story to the group, they agree to help it get back to the [[North Pole]] to Santa. Jessie, on the other hand, sees Jynx as Santa attempting to con the [[twerp]]s just as she had been 10 years ago, and plots to follow them to find Santa's lair and exact her revenge.

Ash calls out his {{AP|Squirtle}}, and Misty calls out her {{TP|Misty|Goldeen}}, {{TP|Misty|Staryu}}, {{TP|Misty|Starmie}}, and {{TP|Misty|Psyduck}}. All of the {{OBP|Pokémon|species}} help pull their homemade raft toward the North Pole, except Psyduck, who cowers at the thought of having to swim. The Pokémon, however, quickly become tired, and so Ash volunteers to pull them the rest of the way. He, as well, becomes tired and hears a voice. Confused, he asks his friends if they said anything, but they haven't. The voice speaks again, and Ash is caught in a wave, while the others drift away on the raft. Ash is plunged underwater, and finally, the source of the voice reveals itself to him: a {{p|Lapras}}. The Lapras brings him above the water and reveals its [[Talking Pokémon|telepathic powers]], as well as the fact that it was sent by Santa to bring Jynx back to the North Pole. It offers to bring them the rest of the way there as thanks for aiding Jynx, and they accept. On their way to the North Pole, the group passes large icebergs, and huddle together in Jynx's hair for warmth. Soon, they arrive, but before they can enter Santa's workshop, {{TRT}} in their [[Team Rocket's mechas|Gyarados submarine]], who has been secretly following the group, steal Jynx and trap the group under a net.

Team Rocket proceeds to bring the captured Jynx, tied in a rope, and enter Santa's workshop. Ash and friends confront them, but Team Rocket, holding Santa as a hostage, uses him as leverage. As Team Rocket is loading up all the presents, Santa and Ash's group ask Jessie to stop. Angrily, Jessie exclaims that she never received any gifts as a child, and how she saw a Jynx stole her favorite doll 10 years ago. A Jynx, after retrieving Jessie's memory of the event telepathically, returns to the workshop and brings back Jessie's lost doll. Santa explains that Jynx brought the broken doll to him to fix it, but they were unable to give it back because Jessie had stopped believing in Santa. Despite this realization, Jessie still plans to steal all of the presents, and Team Rocket makes their getaway. Lapras freezes the submarine with its {{m|Ice Beam}}, but Ash, using {{AP|Charmander}}, accidentally unfreezes it by using {{m|Fire Spin}}. Team Rocket seems to have won, but Santa has all of his Jynx use {{m|Psywave}} to bring back the submarine, shake the presents out of it, blow up the submarine and send Team Rocket blasting off again.

That evening, Santa begins his yearly journey around the {{pkmn|world}}, using a {{p|Ponyta}} as his steed, and flies away. Ash regrets not having told Santa what he wanted, but Lapras assures him that Santa already knows. Santa's Jynx then present Ash and his friends with gifts as it begins to snow.

Meanwhile, Team Rocket lie in a bed together, having been defeated once more, but Jessie has hung a stocking in the hopes that she might receive presents. The other two believe it to be futile, but just then, a Jynx appears in their window. They stare in shock at it, and it uses Lovely Kiss to put them all to sleep. Santa wishes a Merry Christmas to all, and to all a good night.

==Major events==
* {{Ash}} attempts to {{pkmn2|caught|catch}} a {{p|Jynx}}, but fails since she belongs to another {{pkmn|Trainer}}.
{{animeevents}}

===Debuts===
====Humans====
* [[Santa Claus]]

====Pokémon debuts====
* {{p|Jynx}}
* {{p|Lapras}}

==Characters==
===Humans===

[[File:Dare da Holiday Hi-Jynx.png|200px|thumb|right|{{tt|Dare da?|Who's That Pokémon?}}]]
* {{Ash}}
* {{an|Brock}}
* {{an|Misty}}
* [[Jessie]]
* [[James]]
* [[Santa Claus]]

===Pokémon===
[[File:WTP Holiday Hi-Jynx.png|thumb|right|200px||Who's That Pokémon?]]
[[Who's That Pokémon?]]: {{p|Pidgeotto}} ''(US and international)'', {{p|Jynx}} ''(Japan)''

* {{p|Pikachu}} ({{OP|Ash|Pikachu}})
* {{p|Meowth}} ({{TRM}})
* {{p|Pidgeotto}} ({{OP|Ash|Pidgeotto}})
* {{p|Bulbasaur}} ({{OP|Ash|Bulbasaur}})
* {{p|Charmander}} ({{OP|Ash|Charmander}})
* {{p|Squirtle}} ({{OP|Ash|Squirtle}})
* {{p|Goldeen}} ({{OP|Misty|Goldeen}})
* {{p|Staryu}} ({{OP|Misty|Staryu}})
* {{p|Starmie}} ({{OP|Misty|Starmie}})
* {{p|Psyduck}} ({{OP|Misty|Psyduck}})
* {{p|Weezing}} ({{OP|James|Weezing}})
* {{p|Lapras}} ([[Santa Claus|Santa]]'s; debut)
* {{p|Jynx}} ([[Santa Claus|Santa]]'s; multiple; debut)
* {{p|Ponyta}} ([[Santa Claus|Santa]]'s)

==Scheduling conflict==
After the hiatus caused by [[EP038]], the show moved from Tuesday to Thursday. The original schedule was as follows:
{{Rescheduled episodes}}

When episodes of the [[dub]] are aired in order, this episode and ''[[Snow Way Out!]]'' are placed between ''[[EP064|It's Mr. Mime Time]]'' and ''[[EP065|Showdown at the Po-ké Corral]]'', as this is the point at which the episodes aired in Japan. This confuses viewers due to Ash using Charmander instead of Charizard and Misty still having her Starmie and Horsea (and not yet having her Togepi). Chronologically, these episodes go either directly before or directly after ''[[EP039|Pikachu's Goodbye]]''. It also was meant to air before ''[[EP052|Princess vs. Princess]]'', as the latter episode's Japanese version has James and Meowth directly reference Jessie's hatred of Christmas from this episode when she exposits her hatred of [[Princess Festival|Hinamatsuri]] in a similar manner. Due to not airing when initially intended and being advertised as such by {{DL|Pokémon in the United States|Kids' WB!}}, it is considered by Bulbapedia to be a [[List of anime specials|special episode]].

==Removal from rotation==
This episode was pulled from rotation shortly after it was aired due to accusations of {{p|Jynx}} being a {{wp|racial stereotype}} of African-Americans by {{wp|Carole Boston Weatherford}}. It can still be obtained on VHS and in the Indigo League Volume 3 DVD Pack Set and has been made available on {{DL|Pokémon in the United States|Cartoon Network Video}}. However, the episode has not re-aired in syndication, likely due to Jynx's appearance. Moreover, despite appearing on Cartoon Network Video, this episode was skipped on [[Pokémon.com]]'s "[[Pokémon TV]]" video service, (and as of May 2014, removed from Pokémon.com entirely) nor has it been made available on Netflix. When the Indigo League Volume 3 DVD was reissued, the episode was removed. It is also not included in the Indigo League Complete Collection.

The English dub became available on Cartoon Network On Demand wherever available on cable providers in late March 2012, and has been added into the rotation on Boomerang as of 2011. No restrictions were placed on this episode in other countries airing the English dub or a dub based on the English dub, but the episode isn't mentioned on any local versions of Pokémon.com. However, this episode is banned in {{pmin|South Korea}}. The Japanese [[Netflix]] lists an English blurb for the episode despite it being banned, which says, "As children all over the world eagerly await Christmas, so does Team Rocket. It turns out they plan to catch Santa Claus and grab all of his presents!" Although this episode once aired on Hungama TV in {{pmin|South Asia|India}}, it never aired on Disney XD India and was replaced by ''[[EP103|Misty Meets Her Match]]''.

==Trivia==
[[File:Holiday Hi-JynxEdit.png|thumb|250px|A screenshot from the original episode]]
* The end of the episode was followed by a music video of [[Together With the Wind]], the Japanese ending theme to ''[[M01|Mewtwo Strikes Back]]'', rather than a [[Professor Oak's Pokémon Lecture]] segment. This was likely due to the fact that the episode was originally scheduled to air when the segment did not exist yet.
* While Japanese episode previews usually end with "Everybody, get Pokémon!", this episode's preview ends with "Everybody, get a present!", in celebration of the Christmas season.
* [[Jessie]]'s doll is called "Acha Ningyou" in the Japanese version and is a parody of the actor {{wp|Bruce Lee}}, who {{p|Hitmonlee}} is named after in English.
* This marks the first time a Pokémon is depicted with the ability to {{pkmn2|Talking|speak}} telepathically in the anime.
* The {{p|Caterpie}} doll in this episode has its mouth colored green. Until ''[[EP177|Wings 'N' Things]]'', Caterpie's mouth is generally colored yellow in the anime.

===Errors===
* In several scenes, the inside of {{p|Jynx}}'s mouth is colored white instead of red-pink.
* When {{Ash}} throws a Poké Ball to catch Jynx, he has his [[bag]], despite not wearing it previous scenes.
* When {{p|Lapras}} says that it was very kind of Ash for him to use his strength to help bring Jynx back to [[Santa]], {{an|Misty}}'s shorts turn completely dark-cyan, while {{an|Brock}}'s belt is colored green instead of black.
* During the group's battle with {{TRT}}, [[Ash's hat]] continuously swaps between forward and backward.
* When Lapras says that Christmas belongs to everyone, its lower jaw is colored blue instead of cream.
* In the remastered version that aired on [[Pokémon Smash!]], Jynx's forearm appears white instead of red when she stands next to the tied up Ash, Misty, Brock, and Santa Claus.
* In the English dub:
** When the closed captions mention Jessie, her name is misspelled as "Jessy".
** Due to being dubbed out of order, Ash's Pokédex is voiced by [[Eric Stuart]] in this episode, despite it taking place before ''[[EP050|Who Gets to Keep Togepi?]]'', where Ash's Pokédex is upgraded, meaning the Pokédex should still have the voice of [[List of English voice actors|Nicholas James Tate]] at this point.

<gallery>
Holiday Hi-Jynx error.png|Jynx's miscolored mouth
Holiday Hi-Jynx error 2.png|Misty's miscolored shorts and Brock's miscolored belt
Holiday Hi-Jynx error 3.png|Lapras's miscolored jaw
</gallery>

===Dub edits===
* [[Pikachu's Jukebox]]: [[Together Forever]]
* Jessie reads the title card instead of {{Ash}}.
* In the Japanese version, Santa wrote his name in katakana on the inside of his boot. The English dub replaces this with a photo of Santa surrounded by a snowflake border.
* Santa calls Jessie and Ash by name, but in the original version, Santa refers to everyone as "children" instead.
* Santa's reason for not giving Jessie her doll back is different in both versions: in the English dub, Santa tells Jessie that he couldn't return the doll because she stopped believing in Santa, which made him powerless to visit her. In the Japanese version, Santa says that he tried to return it, but Jessie had already moved away.
* When the Jynx all use {{m|Psywave}}, they only chant their names over and over. In the original version, they continuously say "''Psycho''" (the move's Japanese name is ''Psychowave''). This may highlight how Jynx speaks a language similar to human speech.

==In other languages==
{{Epilang|color=AAFFAA|bordercolor=FFAAAA
|ar={{tt|الدمية المسروقة|The stolen toy}}
|zh_cmn={{tt|迷唇姐的聖誕節|Jynx's Christmas}}
|cs={{tt|Svátky s Jynx|Holidays with Jynx}}
|da={{tt|Glædelig Jynx|Merry Jynx}}
|nl={{tt|De Kerstman is een Jynx|The Santa Claus is a Jynx}}
|fi={{tt|Joulun Jynx|The Jynx of Christmas}}
|fr_eu={{tt|Des joujoux par milliers|A thousand toys}}
|de={{tt|Rossanas Odyssee|Jynx's odd-yssey}}
|he=חטיפה חגיגית {{tt|chatifa chagigit|Holiday kidnap}}
|hu={{tt|Karácsonyi ajándékok|Christmas Presents}}
|it={{tt|Incontro con Babbo Natale|Meeting Santa Claus}}
|no={{tt|Snøblind Vei|Snowblind Way}}
|pt_br={{tt|Feriado a Lá Jynx|Holiday by Jynx's Way}}
|pt_eu={{tt|Hi-Jynx Natalício|Christmas's Hi-Jynx}}
|ru={{tt|Рождественская ловушка|Christmas trap}}
|es_la={{tt|¡Una Navidad con Jynx!|A Christmas with Jynx!}}
|es_eu={{tt|Navidades Jynx|Jynx Christmas}}
|sv={{tt|Jynx räddar julen|Jynx saves Christmas}}
|pl={{tt|Wesołych świąt, Jynx|Merry Christmas, Jynx}}
|ro={{tt|Sărbătoarea cu Jynx|The Holiday with Jynx}}
|hi=सांता और जिंक्स {{tt|''Santa aur Jynx''|Santa and Jynx}} {{tt|*|Hungama dub}}
}}
{{-}}

{{PrevNext|
prev=EP038 |
next=''Snow Way Out!'' |
nextlink=Snow Way Out! |
series=Original series |
list=original series episodes |
colorscheme=Kanto}}
{{Project Anime notice}}
[[Category:Original series episodes]]
[[Category:Banned episodes]]
[[Category:Episodes written by Hideki Sonoda]]
[[Category:Episodes storyboarded and directed by Yūji Asada]]
[[Category:Episodes animated by Keishi Sakai]]
[[Category:Episodes focusing on Jessie]]
[[Category:Christmas episodes]]

[[de:Rossanas Odyssee]]
[[es:EP065]]
[[fr:Des joujoux par milliers]]
[[it:Incontro con Babbo Natale]]
[[ja:ルージュラのクリスマス]]
[[zh:宝可梦第64集]]

Holiday Hi-Jynx

2024-06-17T20:33:04Z

Weedle Mchairybug: /* Scheduling conflict */ Elaborating on what the context of the reference was.

{{DISPLAYTITLE:''Holiday Hi-Jynx''}}
{{PrevNext|
prev=EP038 |
next=''Snow Way Out!'' |
nextlink=Snow Way Out! |
series=Original series |
list=original series episodes |
colorscheme=Kanto}}
{{EpisodeInfoboxSpecial|
colorscheme=Kanto|
title_en=Holiday Hi-Jynx |
title_ja=ルージュラのクリスマス |
title_ja_trans=Rougela's Christmas |
screen=yes |
screenshot=Holiday Hi-Jynx.png|
broadcast_jp=October 5, 1998 |
broadcast_us=December 11, 1999 |
en_series=Indigo League |
en_op=[[Pokémon Theme]] |
ja_op=[[Aim to Be a Pokémon Master|めざせポケモンマスター]] |
ja_ed=[[Meowth's Song|ニャースのうた]] |
olmteam=Team Ota |
scenario=園田英樹|
storyboard=浅田裕二|
director=浅田裕二|
art=酒井啓史|
morecredits=yes |
epstaffpage=specials |
footnotes=*{{filb-eppics|pm|065}}
}}
'''Holiday Hi-Jynx''' (Japanese: '''ルージュラのクリスマス''' ''{{tt|Rougela|Jynx}}'s Christmas'') is a special episode of the [[Pokémon anime]]. It was first broadcast in Japan on October 5, 1998, along with ''[[Snow Way Out!]]'', and in the United States on December 11, 1999. It was initially intended to be the 39th episode of the Pokémon anime, airing in Japan on December 23, 1997, but was rescheduled following the [[EP038]] incident.

On December 23, 2012, the 15th anniversary of the episode's originally-planned broadcast date, it aired on ''[[Pokémon Smash!]]'' and was edited to make all of the {{p|Jynx}}'s skin purple instead of black. This version has not been dubbed, so it is still [[Banned episodes|banned]] in the United States. The Japanese versions of [[Prime Video]] and [[Netflix]] have the edited version while [[Hulu]] has the original version.

{{spoilers}}

==Blurb==

Ash and his friends run into a scared and lonely Jynx who has a boot belonging to Santa Claus but can't find its way to the North Pole. Team Rocket is convinced that Jynx really is Santa Claus and Jessie wants revenge from something that happened in her childhood. Can Ash beat the odds and return Jynx to its Master before Team Rocket gets a hold of it?

==Plot==
It is [[Christmas]], and kids everywhere are waiting for their presents from [[Santa]], including the resident of a distant castle, [[Jessie]]. She pretends to be asleep, as the door to her room is slowly opened by Santa. He becomes trapped in a net, and unable to move. Jessie and {{MTR}} are enthusiastic about their capture, and cannot wait for the ''real'' Santa to come to be trapped, as this person had been [[James]] in a Santa suit.

Jessie recalls the night 10 years ago when she stopped believing in Santa. When waiting awake for him, a {{p|Jynx}} appeared from the chimney and does nothing but take her doll, broken and thrown to the fireplace moments earlier by Jessie in her waiting enthusiasm. James and Meowth doubt Jessie's story, but Jessie is insistent that this occurred, and that Santa is a Jynx.

Meanwhile, in the southern part of the [[Kanto]] [[region]], {{Ash}} and {{ashfr}} are scouting out a Jynx on a sunny beach, who is holding a single black boot. Ash attempts to [[Caught Pokémon|capture]] it, however, it does not work, and the Jynx's {{m|Lovely Kiss}} manages to defeat {{AP|Pikachu}}. {{an|Brock}} deduces that it must have a {{pkmn|Trainer}}. {{an|Misty}} is given the boot by the Jynx, and sees that it belongs to Santa, as an image is sewn to the inside. After Jynx telepathically tells its story to the group, they agree to help it get back to the [[North Pole]] to Santa. Jessie, on the other hand, sees Jynx as Santa attempting to con the [[twerp]]s just as she had been 10 years ago, and plots to follow them to find Santa's lair and exact her revenge.

Ash calls out his {{AP|Squirtle}}, and Misty calls out her {{TP|Misty|Goldeen}}, {{TP|Misty|Staryu}}, {{TP|Misty|Starmie}}, and {{TP|Misty|Psyduck}}. All of the {{OBP|Pokémon|species}} help pull their homemade raft toward the North Pole, except Psyduck, who cowers at the thought of having to swim. The Pokémon, however, quickly become tired, and so Ash volunteers to pull them the rest of the way. He, as well, becomes tired and hears a voice. Confused, he asks his friends if they said anything, but they haven't. The voice speaks again, and Ash is caught in a wave, while the others drift away on the raft. Ash is plunged underwater, and finally, the source of the voice reveals itself to him: a {{p|Lapras}}. The Lapras brings him above the water and reveals its [[Talking Pokémon|telepathic powers]], as well as the fact that it was sent by Santa to bring Jynx back to the North Pole. It offers to bring them the rest of the way there as thanks for aiding Jynx, and they accept. On their way to the North Pole, the group passes large icebergs, and huddle together in Jynx's hair for warmth. Soon, they arrive, but before they can enter Santa's workshop, {{TRT}} in their [[Team Rocket's mechas|Gyarados submarine]], who has been secretly following the group, steal Jynx and trap the group under a net.

Team Rocket proceeds to bring the captured Jynx, tied in a rope, and enter Santa's workshop. Ash and friends confront them, but Team Rocket, holding Santa as a hostage, uses him as leverage. As Team Rocket is loading up all the presents, Santa and Ash's group ask Jessie to stop. Angrily, Jessie exclaims that she never received any gifts as a child, and how she saw a Jynx stole her favorite doll 10 years ago. A Jynx, after retrieving Jessie's memory of the event telepathically, returns to the workshop and brings back Jessie's lost doll. Santa explains that Jynx brought the broken doll to him to fix it, but they were unable to give it back because Jessie had stopped believing in Santa. Despite this realization, Jessie still plans to steal all of the presents, and Team Rocket makes their getaway. Lapras freezes the submarine with its {{m|Ice Beam}}, but Ash, using {{AP|Charmander}}, accidentally unfreezes it by using {{m|Fire Spin}}. Team Rocket seems to have won, but Santa has all of his Jynx use {{m|Psywave}} to bring back the submarine, shake the presents out of it, blow up the submarine and send Team Rocket blasting off again.

That evening, Santa begins his yearly journey around the {{pkmn|world}}, using a {{p|Ponyta}} as his steed, and flies away. Ash regrets not having told Santa what he wanted, but Lapras assures him that Santa already knows. Santa's Jynx then present Ash and his friends with gifts as it begins to snow.

Meanwhile, Team Rocket lie in a bed together, having been defeated once more, but Jessie has hung a stocking in the hopes that she might receive presents. The other two believe it to be futile, but just then, a Jynx appears in their window. They stare in shock at it, and it uses Lovely Kiss to put them all to sleep. Santa wishes a Merry Christmas to all, and to all a good night.

==Major events==
* {{Ash}} attempts to {{pkmn2|caught|catch}} a {{p|Jynx}}, but fails since she belongs to another {{pkmn|Trainer}}.
{{animeevents}}

===Debuts===
====Humans====
* [[Santa Claus]]

====Pokémon debuts====
* {{p|Jynx}}
* {{p|Lapras}}

==Characters==
===Humans===

[[File:Dare da Holiday Hi-Jynx.png|200px|thumb|right|{{tt|Dare da?|Who's That Pokémon?}}]]
* {{Ash}}
* {{an|Brock}}
* {{an|Misty}}
* [[Jessie]]
* [[James]]
* [[Santa Claus]]

===Pokémon===
[[File:WTP Holiday Hi-Jynx.png|thumb|right|200px||Who's That Pokémon?]]
[[Who's That Pokémon?]]: {{p|Pidgeotto}} ''(US and international)'', {{p|Jynx}} ''(Japan)''

* {{p|Pikachu}} ({{OP|Ash|Pikachu}})
* {{p|Meowth}} ({{TRM}})
* {{p|Pidgeotto}} ({{OP|Ash|Pidgeotto}})
* {{p|Bulbasaur}} ({{OP|Ash|Bulbasaur}})
* {{p|Charmander}} ({{OP|Ash|Charmander}})
* {{p|Squirtle}} ({{OP|Ash|Squirtle}})
* {{p|Goldeen}} ({{OP|Misty|Goldeen}})
* {{p|Staryu}} ({{OP|Misty|Staryu}})
* {{p|Starmie}} ({{OP|Misty|Starmie}})
* {{p|Psyduck}} ({{OP|Misty|Psyduck}})
* {{p|Weezing}} ({{OP|James|Weezing}})
* {{p|Lapras}} ([[Santa Claus|Santa]]'s; debut)
* {{p|Jynx}} ([[Santa Claus|Santa]]'s; multiple; debut)
* {{p|Ponyta}} ([[Santa Claus|Santa]]'s)

==Scheduling conflict==
After the hiatus caused by [[EP038]], the show moved from Tuesday to Thursday. The original schedule was as follows:
{{Rescheduled episodes}}

When episodes of the [[dub]] are aired in order, this episode and ''[[Snow Way Out!]]'' are placed between ''[[EP064|It's Mr. Mime Time]]'' and ''[[EP065|Showdown at the Po-ké Corral]]'', as this is the point at which the episodes aired in Japan. This confuses viewers due to Ash using Charmander instead of Charizard and Misty still having her Starmie and Horsea (and not yet having her Togepi). Chronologically, these episodes go either directly before or directly after ''[[EP039|Pikachu's Goodbye]]''. It also was meant to air before ''[[EP052|Princess vs. Princess]]'', as the latter episode has James and Meowth directly reference Jessie's hatred of Christmas from this episode when she exposits her hatred of [[Princess Festival|Hinamatsuri]] in a similar manner. Due to not airing when initially intended and being advertised as such by {{DL|Pokémon in the United States|Kids' WB!}}, it is considered by Bulbapedia to be a [[List of anime specials|special episode]].

==Removal from rotation==
This episode was pulled from rotation shortly after it was aired due to accusations of {{p|Jynx}} being a {{wp|racial stereotype}} of African-Americans by {{wp|Carole Boston Weatherford}}. It can still be obtained on VHS and in the Indigo League Volume 3 DVD Pack Set and has been made available on {{DL|Pokémon in the United States|Cartoon Network Video}}. However, the episode has not re-aired in syndication, likely due to Jynx's appearance. Moreover, despite appearing on Cartoon Network Video, this episode was skipped on [[Pokémon.com]]'s "[[Pokémon TV]]" video service, (and as of May 2014, removed from Pokémon.com entirely) nor has it been made available on Netflix. When the Indigo League Volume 3 DVD was reissued, the episode was removed. It is also not included in the Indigo League Complete Collection.

The English dub became available on Cartoon Network On Demand wherever available on cable providers in late March 2012, and has been added into the rotation on Boomerang as of 2011. No restrictions were placed on this episode in other countries airing the English dub or a dub based on the English dub, but the episode isn't mentioned on any local versions of Pokémon.com. However, this episode is banned in {{pmin|South Korea}}. The Japanese [[Netflix]] lists an English blurb for the episode despite it being banned, which says, "As children all over the world eagerly await Christmas, so does Team Rocket. It turns out they plan to catch Santa Claus and grab all of his presents!" Although this episode once aired on Hungama TV in {{pmin|South Asia|India}}, it never aired on Disney XD India and was replaced by ''[[EP103|Misty Meets Her Match]]''.

==Trivia==
[[File:Holiday Hi-JynxEdit.png|thumb|250px|A screenshot from the original episode]]
* The end of the episode was followed by a music video of [[Together With the Wind]], the Japanese ending theme to ''[[M01|Mewtwo Strikes Back]]'', rather than a [[Professor Oak's Pokémon Lecture]] segment. This was likely due to the fact that the episode was originally scheduled to air when the segment did not exist yet.
* While Japanese episode previews usually end with "Everybody, get Pokémon!", this episode's preview ends with "Everybody, get a present!", in celebration of the Christmas season.
* [[Jessie]]'s doll is called "Acha Ningyou" in the Japanese version and is a parody of the actor {{wp|Bruce Lee}}, who {{p|Hitmonlee}} is named after in English.
* This marks the first time a Pokémon is depicted with the ability to {{pkmn2|Talking|speak}} telepathically in the anime.
* The {{p|Caterpie}} doll in this episode has its mouth colored green. Until ''[[EP177|Wings 'N' Things]]'', Caterpie's mouth is generally colored yellow in the anime.

===Errors===
* In several scenes, the inside of {{p|Jynx}}'s mouth is colored white instead of red-pink.
* When {{Ash}} throws a Poké Ball to catch Jynx, he has his [[bag]], despite not wearing it previous scenes.
* When {{p|Lapras}} says that it was very kind of Ash for him to use his strength to help bring Jynx back to [[Santa]], {{an|Misty}}'s shorts turn completely dark-cyan, while {{an|Brock}}'s belt is colored green instead of black.
* During the group's battle with {{TRT}}, [[Ash's hat]] continuously swaps between forward and backward.
* When Lapras says that Christmas belongs to everyone, its lower jaw is colored blue instead of cream.
* In the remastered version that aired on [[Pokémon Smash!]], Jynx's forearm appears white instead of red when she stands next to the tied up Ash, Misty, Brock, and Santa Claus.
* In the English dub:
** When the closed captions mention Jessie, her name is misspelled as "Jessy".
** Due to being dubbed out of order, Ash's Pokédex is voiced by [[Eric Stuart]] in this episode, despite it taking place before ''[[EP050|Who Gets to Keep Togepi?]]'', where Ash's Pokédex is upgraded, meaning the Pokédex should still have the voice of [[List of English voice actors|Nicholas James Tate]] at this point.

<gallery>
Holiday Hi-Jynx error.png|Jynx's miscolored mouth
Holiday Hi-Jynx error 2.png|Misty's miscolored shorts and Brock's miscolored belt
Holiday Hi-Jynx error 3.png|Lapras's miscolored jaw
</gallery>

===Dub edits===
* [[Pikachu's Jukebox]]: [[Together Forever]]
* Jessie reads the title card instead of {{Ash}}.
* In the Japanese version, Santa wrote his name in katakana on the inside of his boot. The English dub replaces this with a photo of Santa surrounded by a snowflake border.
* Santa calls Jessie and Ash by name, but in the original version, Santa refers to everyone as "children" instead.
* Santa's reason for not giving Jessie her doll back is different in both versions: in the English dub, Santa tells Jessie that he couldn't return the doll because she stopped believing in Santa, which made him powerless to visit her. In the Japanese version, Santa says that he tried to return it, but Jessie had already moved away.
* When the Jynx all use {{m|Psywave}}, they only chant their names over and over. In the original version, they continuously say "''Psycho''" (the move's Japanese name is ''Psychowave''). This may highlight how Jynx speaks a language similar to human speech.

==In other languages==
{{Epilang|color=AAFFAA|bordercolor=FFAAAA
|ar={{tt|الدمية المسروقة|The stolen toy}}
|zh_cmn={{tt|迷唇姐的聖誕節|Jynx's Christmas}}
|cs={{tt|Svátky s Jynx|Holidays with Jynx}}
|da={{tt|Glædelig Jynx|Merry Jynx}}
|nl={{tt|De Kerstman is een Jynx|The Santa Claus is a Jynx}}
|fi={{tt|Joulun Jynx|The Jynx of Christmas}}
|fr_eu={{tt|Des joujoux par milliers|A thousand toys}}
|de={{tt|Rossanas Odyssee|Jynx's odd-yssey}}
|he=חטיפה חגיגית {{tt|chatifa chagigit|Holiday kidnap}}
|hu={{tt|Karácsonyi ajándékok|Christmas Presents}}
|it={{tt|Incontro con Babbo Natale|Meeting Santa Claus}}
|no={{tt|Snøblind Vei|Snowblind Way}}
|pt_br={{tt|Feriado a Lá Jynx|Holiday by Jynx's Way}}
|pt_eu={{tt|Hi-Jynx Natalício|Christmas's Hi-Jynx}}
|ru={{tt|Рождественская ловушка|Christmas trap}}
|es_la={{tt|¡Una Navidad con Jynx!|A Christmas with Jynx!}}
|es_eu={{tt|Navidades Jynx|Jynx Christmas}}
|sv={{tt|Jynx räddar julen|Jynx saves Christmas}}
|pl={{tt|Wesołych świąt, Jynx|Merry Christmas, Jynx}}
|ro={{tt|Sărbătoarea cu Jynx|The Holiday with Jynx}}
|hi=सांता और जिंक्स {{tt|''Santa aur Jynx''|Santa and Jynx}} {{tt|*|Hungama dub}}
}}
{{-}}

{{PrevNext|
prev=EP038 |
next=''Snow Way Out!'' |
nextlink=Snow Way Out! |
series=Original series |
list=original series episodes |
colorscheme=Kanto}}
{{Project Anime notice}}
[[Category:Original series episodes]]
[[Category:Banned episodes]]
[[Category:Episodes written by Hideki Sonoda]]
[[Category:Episodes storyboarded and directed by Yūji Asada]]
[[Category:Episodes animated by Keishi Sakai]]
[[Category:Episodes focusing on Jessie]]
[[Category:Christmas episodes]]

[[de:Rossanas Odyssee]]
[[es:EP065]]
[[fr:Des joujoux par milliers]]
[[it:Incontro con Babbo Natale]]
[[ja:ルージュラのクリスマス]]
[[zh:宝可梦第64集]]

EP110

2024-06-17T19:00:40Z

Weedle Mchairybug: /* Dub edits */

{{EpicodePrevNext|
prevcode=EP109 |
prevtitle=The Wacky Watcher! |
nextcode=EP111 |
nexttitle=Hello, Pummelo! |
series=Original series |
episodelist=List of original series episodes |
colorscheme=Orange}}
{{EpisodeInfobox|
epcode=EP110 |
colorscheme=Orange |
title_en=The Stun Spore Detour |
title_ja=ニョロモとカスミ |
title_ja_trans=Nyoromo and Kasumi |
screen=hd |
broadcast_jp=August 26, 1999 |
broadcast_us=September 16, 2000 |
en_series=Orange Islands |
en_op={{so|Pokémon World}} |
ja_op=[[The Rivals|ライバル！]] |
ja_ed=[[Riding on Lapras|ラプラスにのって]] |
olmteam=Team Ota |
scenario=大橋志吉 |
storyboard=浅田裕二 |
director=浅田裕二 |
art=岩根雅明 |
morecredits=yes |
epstaffpage=EP101-EP110 |
footnotes=*{{filb-eppics|pm|112}}
}}
'''The Stun Spore Detour''' (Japanese: '''ニョロモとカスミ''' ''{{tt|Nyoromo|Poliwag}} and {{tt|Kasumi|Misty}}'') is the 110th episode of the [[Pokémon anime]]. It was first broadcast in Japan on August 26, 1999, and in the United States on September 16, 2000.

{{spoilers}}

==Blurb==

When a chance encounter with a Vileplume leaves Ash and Tracey incapacitated, Misty sets about finding a healing plant that will restore their health. Meanwhile James and Meowth of Team Rocket lurk nearby, planning to steal the herb for their own nefarious uses.

==Plot==
While staying at {{OBP|Unnamed island|EP110|another island}}, {{Ash}} and {{AP|Pikachu}} prepare for the [[Orange League]]. After a wave crashes over the pair, they make their way over to {{Tracey}} to ask for assistance, but Ash trips on a stone, knocking both himself and Tracey into a {{p|Vileplume}}'s head opening. The two try to struggle to get free, but Vileplume uses a point-blank {{m|Stun Spore}} on them. Pikachu, unaffected, races back and soon finds {{an|Misty}}, who is busy walking with {{TP|Misty|Psyduck}}. Pikachu tries to explain, but it is after Ash and Tracey stumble over that Misty realizes the pair have been {{status|paralysis|paralyzed}}.

At the cabin, Misty struggles to cure Ash and Tracey, since they have no first aid aside from band-aids, and the nearest [[Pokémon Center]] is on another island. Tracey, in his weakened state, tells Misty to look at Ash's [[Pokédex]] for advice. She learns that boiled [[Salveyo weed]] has the ability to cure Vileplume's Stun Spore, and they are found on lake bottoms with {{p|Poliwag}} wherever Vileplume are found. Leaving Pikachu to take care of Ash and Tracey, Misty and {{TP|Misty|Togepi}} set out to find the Salveyo weed.

Meanwhile, at another cabin, it is also revealed that [[Jessie]] was a victim to Vileplume's Stun Spore, after she dove headfirst into a field of flowers, right into a Vileplume's head opening. [[James]] quickly recalls that Salveyo weed can help cure her, and he and {{MTR}} set off to find the Salveyo weed. They manage to find a Poliwag with Salveyo weed stuck on its tail. This makes James remember that Poliwag can be used to find Salveyo weed, causing Meowth to declare their goal: to capture the Poliwag. James sends out {{TP|James|Victreebel}}, which attempts to hit Poliwag, but it jumps out of the way and uses {{m|Water Gun}} to defend itself. Due to its [[type]] advantage, Victreebel absorbs the hit and retaliates with {{m|Razor Leaf}}, which Poliwag narrowly dodges. Meowth eventually jumps onto Poliwag and catches it with a weaved basket, but it soon escapes.

At the same time, Misty, having unsuccessfully searched several lakes for the Salveyo weed, encounters Poliwag. Poliwag warms up to Misty just as James and Meowth appear. James and Meowth demand the Poliwag, but Misty, seeing that Poliwag is hiding behind her, refuses. Seeing that Misty is outnumbered, James and Meowth proposition a {{pkmn|battle}}, which Misty accepts. However, the battle does not go well for {{TRT}}, with {{TP|Misty|Goldeen}} evading Victreebel's Razor Leaf before striking it with a {{m|Horn Attack}}, and then repeatedly juggling it with {{m|Fury Attack}}, forcing James to recall it. Then, {{TP|Misty|Staryu}} cuts through {{TP|James|Weezing}}'s {{m|Smog}} with {{m|Double-Edge}} and defeats it. Next, Meowth {{m|Scratch|claws}} Psyduck's face, then tries to {{m|bite}} its head, causing it to unleash a headache-induced {{m|Confusion}} that sends both it and James blasting off. Misty, who had managed to ask for Poliwag's help, walks away with Poliwag in tow.

Later, Misty heals Poliwag's injuries from Team Rocket's attack with some Pokémon cream, and the gesture makes it fully warm up to Misty. Out of gratitude, it manages to help Misty get more than enough Salveyo weed for Ash and Tracey. However, as Misty leaves to help her friends, Poliwag continues to follow her. She realizes that it wants to be her Pokémon and happily allows it to join her and Togepi. As they walk back together, Misty tells Poliwag about her friends, all the while ignoring lures to pitfall traps left by James and Meowth. In a last-ditch effort, James disguises himself as an old lady and Meowth as a baby, hoping to appeal to Misty. However, after Meowth reacts uncharacteristically to James's tear-jerking story, Misty realizes the pair's true identities. James and Meowth recite their {{motto}}, then Meowth reveals that Jessie is suffering from a Vileplume attack, and James calls upon Weezing's assistance. Poliwag uses {{m|Double Slap}}, knocking Weezing into James and Meowth, and off a cliff. Much to the pair's surprise, Misty decides to leave some Salveyo weed for them afterwards, to help Jessie recover. On their way to Jessie, James and Meowth gush over Misty's kindhearted gesture.

Later, both parties have recovered, and Jessie, believing that Ash and Tracey are still sick, decides to seize this opportunity to steal Pikachu. Jessie initiates the attack without James and Meowth's support, as they feel guilty about doing so after Misty had helped them. Pikachu, in self-defense, lands a {{m|Thunder Shock}} on Arbok and Jessie, paralyzing them again. Not wanting another conflict, James and Meowth quickly cart Jessie and Arbok off. Afterwards, Ash thanks Misty for her efforts, but Misty acknowledges her new friend and team member, {{TP|Misty|Poliwag}}. Ash again thanks Misty for being nice, but she warns him not to expect it too often. Misty then catches Poliwag offscreen, and {{ashfr|the group}} soon leaves the island on {{AP|Lapras}} for Ash's upcoming [[Orange League]] championship match.

==Major events==

* [[Misty's Goldeen]] is revealed to know {{m|Fury Attack}}.
* {{an|Misty}} {{pkmn2|caught|catches}} a {{TP|Misty|Poliwag}}.
{{animeevents}}

===Debuts===

====Pokémon debuts====
* [[Misty's Poliwag]]

==Characters==
===Humans===
[[File:Dare da EP110.png|200px|thumb|right|{{tt|Dare da?|Who's That Pokémon?}}]]
* {{Ash}}
* {{an|Misty}}
* {{Tracey}}
* [[Jessie]]
* [[James]]

===Pokémon===
[[File:WTP EP110.png|200px|thumb|right|Who's That Pokémon?]]
[[Who's That Pokémon?]]: {{p|Dragonair}} ''(US and international)''; {{p|Poliwag}} ''(Japan)''

* {{p|Pikachu}} ({{OP|Ash|Pikachu}})
* {{p|Meowth}} ({{TRM}})
* {{p|Togepi}} ({{OP|Misty|Togepi}})
* {{p|Lapras}} ({{OP|Ash|Lapras}})
* {{p|Goldeen}} ({{OP|Misty|Goldeen}})
* {{p|Staryu}} ({{OP|Misty|Staryu}})
* {{p|Psyduck}} ({{OP|Misty|Psyduck}})
* {{p|Poliwag}} ({{OP|Misty|Politoed}}; new)
* {{p|Arbok}} ({{OP|Jessie|Arbok}})
* {{p|Weezing}} ({{OP|James|Weezing}})
* {{p|Victreebel}} ({{OP|James|Victreebel}})
* {{p|Vileplume}}
{{right clear}}

==Trivia==
* In both the Japanese and English versions, {{an|Misty}} reads the title card. The same happened in the [[dub]] in [[EP003|an earlier episode]].
* This episode marks the only time in which [[Misty's Goldeen]] wins a battle onscreen.
* This marks the first time {{MTR}} fills in for [[Jessie]] in [[Team Rocket mottos#Meowth filling in for Jessie or James|Team Rocket's motto]].
* The part when Jessie says that she will die when the last leaf from the tree outside the window falls is based on the {{wp|O. Henry}} short story {{wp|The Last Leaf}}.

===Errors===
* The English dub opening has the [[narrator]] mention the "[[Orange League]] competition", which has also been brought up in several preceding episodes, even though [[EP111|the next episode]] shows that the Orange League does not include a [[Pokémon League Conference|tournament]].

===Dub edits===
* [[Pikachu's Jukebox]]: [[2.B.A. Master]]
* A short scene of Jessie and Meowth kicking [[James]] is removed from the dubbed version and replaced with impact stars.
* In the Japanese version, {{Tracey}} says that Misty should {{pkmn2|Caught|catch}} {{TP|Misty|Poliwag}}, which she agrees with, while in the dub, the two just emphasize how good Misty and Poliwag's teamwork and friendship is.
* In the original Japanese version, {{Ash}} notes that Misty was unusually nice today, and she sharply responds that she's always nice. The dubbed version instead has Ash thanking Misty for her help and her telling him to not get used to it.
* In the Japanese version, James when explaining the properties of Salveyo Weed explained that he knew this because he himself had to take it after being exposed to a Vileplume's Stun Spore in the past. This detail was not made explicit in the English dub.

==In other languages==
{{Epilang|color=FFDDAA|bordercolor=FFBB55
|ar={{tt|الغبار المنوم|The sleeping powder}}
|zh_cmn={{tt|蚊香蝌蚪和小霞！|Poliwag and Misty!}}
|cs={{tt|Omračující pyl|Stunning pollen}}
|nl={{tt|De Verdeelspooromweg|The Stun spore Detour}}
|de={{tt|Stachelsporen-Chaos|Stun spore chaos}}
|fr_eu={{tt|Les algues salsifiques|Salsific algae}}
|he=פרשיית אבקת השיתוק {{tt|''Parshiyat Avkat Ha'Shituk''|The case of the Stun Spore}}
|hu={{tt|Az álomspóra-túra|The Sleep Spore Tour}}
|it={{tt|L'alga curativa|The curative seaweed}}{{tt|*|Original 2000 dub}} {{tt|Un'alga miracolosa|A miraculous seaweed}}{{tt|*|2014 K2 TV dub}}
|pt_br={{tt|O Caso dos Esporos Paralizantes|The Case of the Stun Spore}}
|pt_eu={{tt|O Desvio do Esporo de Atordoamento|The Stun Spore Detour}}
|es_la={{tt|¡La desviación paralizadora!|The paralyzing detour!}}
|es_eu={{tt|La espora paralizadora|The paralyzing spore}}
|pl={{tt|Pyłkowa afera|Pollen affair}}
|ro={{tt|Deturul Prafului Paralizant|The Stun Spore Detour}}
|hi=स्टन स्पोरे का एंटीडोट {{tt|''Stun Spore ka Antidote''|The Antidote of Stun Spore}} {{tt|*|Hungama dub}}
}}

{{-}}
{{EpicodePrevNext|
prevcode=EP109 |
prevtitle=The Wacky Watcher! |
nextcode=EP111 |
nexttitle=Hello, Pummelo! |
series=Original series |
episodelist=List of original series episodes |
colorscheme=Orange}}
{{Project Anime notice}}
{{DEFAULTSORT:0110}}
[[Category:Original series episodes|110]]
[[Category:Episodes written by Yukiyoshi Ōhashi]]
[[Category:Episodes storyboarded and directed by Yūji Asada]]
[[Category:Episodes storyboarded by Yūji Asada]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Yūji Asada]]
[[Category:Episodes animated by Masaaki Iwane]]
[[Category:Episodes in which a main character obtains a new Pokémon]]
[[Category:Episodes focusing on Misty]]
[[Category:Episodes focusing on James]]
[[Category:Episodes focusing on Meowth]]

[[de:Stachelsporen-Chaos]]
[[es:EP112]]
[[fr:EP110]]
[[it:EP110]]
[[ja:無印編第110話]]
[[zh:宝可梦第111集]]

EP007

2024-06-17T15:01:51Z

Weedle Mchairybug: /* Trivia */ So apparently it does exist. Wonder why Dogasu didn't mention it earlier. Well, either way, definitely making sure to add a trivia entry elaborating on WHY Staryu was considered a hermaphrodite, especially after certain people are taking that to mean Misty's pro-gay despite making absolutely no comment one way or another on the lifestyle in the show (not even in PFF where she encountered one in person).

{{EpicodePrevNext|
prevcode=EP006 |
prevtitle=Clefairy and the Moon Stone |
nextcode=EP008 |
nexttitle=The Path to the Pokémon League |
series=original series |
colorscheme=Kanto}}
{{EpisodeInfobox|
epcode=EP007 |
colorscheme=Kanto|
title_en=The Water Flowers of Cerulean City |
title_ja=ハナダシティのすいちゅうか |
title_ja_trans=The Suichūka of Hanada City |
broadcast_jp=May 13, 1997 |
broadcast_us=September 16, 1998 |
en_series=Indigo League |
en_op=[[Pokémon Theme]] |
ja_op=[[Aim to Be a Pokémon Master|めざせポケモンマスター]] |
ja_ed=[[One Hundred Fifty-One|ひゃくごじゅういち]] |
screen=hd |
olmteam=Team Ota |
scenario=大橋志吉 |
storyboard=井上修 |
director=井上修 |
art=藤田宗克 |
morecredits=yes |
epstaffpage=EP001-EP010 |
footnotes=* {{filb-eppics|pm|007}}
*水中花 ''suichūka'' are a type of artificial flower which "blossoms" when placed in water. }}
'''The Water Flowers of Cerulean City''' (Japanese: ''' ハナダシティのすいちゅうか''' ''The {{tt|Suichūka|water flowers}} of {{tt|Hanada|Cerulean}} City'') is the seventh episode of the [[Pokémon anime]]. It first aired in Japan on May 13, 1997, and in the United States on September 16, 1998.

{{spoilers}}

==Blurb==

Ash seeks the Cascade badge in Cerulean City—but for some reason, Misty doesn't want to join them. When Ash and Brock show up, the city is buzzing about a break-in that just took place—and are initially accused of the crime! (We see Team Rocket commit the robbery, but no one else knows about their involvement yet.)

Ash and Pikachu arrive at the Cerulean City gym, which resembles an aquarium with an Olympic-sized swimming pool. They see a water show performed by the Sensational Cerulean City Synchronized Swimming Sisters. Later on, Ash learns that the sisters are actually the Gym Leaders. He challenges them, but they don't feel like battling and instead offer him the Cascade Badge without a fight.

It looks like Ash will have his Cascade Badge without breaking a sweat...but then a fourth Gym Leader step up! Who is this mysterious Gym Leader? What does Team Rocket plan to do with the stuff they stole? And where's Misty?

==Plot==
Excited about winning his {{badge|Boulder}}, {{Ash}} travels quickly to [[Cerulean City]] to battle for his {{Badge|Cascade}}. For some reason, however, {{an|Misty}} is hesitant and unsuccessfully tries to convince the others to go to [[Vermilion City]] instead. She leaves Ash and {{an|Brock}} as they enter the city.

When Ash and Brock enter Cerulean City, they see a big crowd of people surrounding a building. Unbeknownst to them, {{TRT}} had stolen a vacuum machine from the store overnight. Ash and Brock push through to the front, where they see [[Officer Jenny]], who accuses them of being criminals. When they prove their innocence, she lets them go and ushers the crowd away. After that, they sit on a bench and Ash asks Brock for inside information on the [[Gym Leader]]. Brock tells him that as a Gym Leader, he cannot give out that information. Then Brock decides to check something out that he has been meaning to look at. They split up, and Ash heads to the [[Cerulean Gym]] alone.

When Ash reaches the Gym, he finds three sisters performing a synchronized swimming show for a lively crowd. Ash meets the girls backstage, finds out that they are the Gym Leaders, and challenges them to a battle. The girls, {{ka|Lily}}, {{an|Daisy}}, and {{an|Violet}}, explain that their {{OBP|Pokémon|species}} are too tired to battle from matches against three Trainers from [[Pallet Town]]. Lily shows Ash the trio's final Pokémon, a {{p|Goldeen}}. Daisy claps her hands and a {{p|Seel}} with the badge in its mouth appears, whereupon she offers Ash the {{Badge|Cascade}} without a proper match. Misty, who had been spying on the entire scene, intervenes and challenges Ash to a battle. As it turns out, Misty is herself a Cerulean Gym Leader as well, and also the youngest of [[The Sensational Sisters]], but because she is so much younger than her three sisters, they call her a runt.

After Misty argues with her sisters, she challenges Ash to an official Cerulean Gym battle, two Pokémon per side. Ash tries to send out {{AP|Pikachu}}, but Pikachu refuses to go into battle because he considers Misty a friend. Instead, Ash sends out {{AP|Butterfree}} to battle [[Misty's Staryu]]. Ash hits Staryu with a {{m|Tackle}}, and Staryu replies with several {{m|Water Gun}}s. Butterfree's {{m|Stun Spore}} {{status|paralysis|paralyzes}} Staryu temporarily, though it dives and washes the powder off. Ash tries {{m|Sleep Powder}}, though Staryu dives once again. Staryu performs several Tackles and eventually knocks Butterfree into the pool, causing him to lose the battle. After that, Misty sends out {{TP|Misty|Starmie}} and Ash sends out {{AP|Pidgeotto}}. Pidgeotto uses {{m|Whirlwind}} on Starmie, but it jumps into the water and attacks Pidgeotto. Pidgeotto uses {{m|Gust}}, causing Starmie to hit the wall and its red core to flash, with Misty becoming concerned about Starmie's energy wearing out. However, before the battle can continue, {{TRT}} interrupts and tries to steal all of the {{type|Water}} Pokémon and the water from the Gym using a giant vacuum machine – the one stolen the previous night.

While Team Rocket's vacuum is sucking up the Water Pokémon, Pikachu releases a {{m|Thunderbolt}} attack, which causes Team Rocket to fall into their machine and be sent blasting off. Ash rushes over to the machine and reverses the vacuum, just as Pikachu is sucked in. After Team Rocket is gone, Daisy gives Ash the Cascade Badge in recognition of Pikachu's efforts. Misty tries to argue, but her sisters convince her that if Ash had used Pikachu he would have easily beaten her Water-type Pokémon. Misty agrees with her sisters and claims that when she comes back from her journey with Ash, she will be a great Trainer. Brock then meets Ash outside of the Gym. Ash and Misty continue to argue about who would have won the match, as the trio heads for Vermilion City.

==Major events==

[[File:Ash Cascade Badge.png|thumb|220px|Ash holding the Cascade Badge]]
* {{Ash}} and {{ashfr}} arrive in [[Cerulean City]].
* Ash meets {{an|Daisy}}, {{an|Violet}}, and {{ka|Lily}}, the {{gy|Cerulean}} [[Gym Leader]]s, for the first time.
* {{Gary}} and the other two [[Pallet Town]] {{pkmn|Trainer}}s are revealed to have already defeated the Cerulean Gym.
* Ash learns that {{an|Misty}} is also one of Cerulean City's Gym Leaders and that Daisy, Violet, and Lily are her [[Sensational Sisters|sisters]].
* Ash and Misty {{pkmn|battle}} each other for the first time.
* [[Misty's Staryu]] is revealed to know {{m|Tackle}}.
* [[Ash's Butterfree]] is revealed to know {{m|Stun Spore}}.
* Misty is revealed to own a {{TP|Misty|Starmie}}.
* [[Ash's Pidgeotto]] is revealed to know {{m|Wing Attack}}.
* Ash and Misty's [[Gym]] battle ends in a no-contest, due to the interruption by {{TRT}}.
* Ash gets the {{badge|Cascade}} from Misty's sisters for protecting the Gym from Team Rocket.
{{animeevents}}

===Debuts===
====Humans====
* [[The Sensational Sisters]]:
** {{an|Daisy}}
** {{an|Violet}}
** {{ka|Lily}}

====Pokémon debuts====
* {{p|Starmie}} ({{OP|Misty|Starmie}})
* {{p|Seel}} ([[Seel (Cerulean Gym)|Cerulean Gym's]])

==Characters==
===Humans===
[[File:Dare da EP007.png|thumb|200px|{{tt|Dare da?|Who's That Pokémon?}}]]
* {{Ash}}
* {{an|Misty}}
* {{an|Brock}}
* [[Jessie]]
* [[James]]
* [[Officer Jenny]]
* [[The Sensational Sisters]]
** {{an|Daisy}}
** {{an|Violet}}
** {{ka|Lily}}
* {{Gary}} (flashback in the Japanese version; voice only in the dub)

===Pokémon===
[[File:WTP EP007.png|thumb|200px|Who's That Pokémon?]]
[[Who's That Pokémon?]]: {{p|Seel}}
* {{p|Pikachu}} ({{OP|Ash|Pikachu}})
* {{p|Meowth}} ({{TRM}})
* {{p|Butterfree}} ({{OP|Ash|Butterfree}})
* {{p|Pidgeotto}} ({{OP|Ash|Pidgeotto}})
* {{p|Staryu}} ({{OP|Misty|Staryu}})
* {{p|Starmie}} ({{OP|Misty|Starmie}}; debut)
* {{p|Seel}} ([[Seel (Cerulean Gym)|Cerulean Gym's]]; debut)
* {{p|Goldeen}} ({{ka|Lily}}'s)

==Trivia==
[[File:Fish EP007.png|thumb|200px|Real world fish]]
* This is [[Ted Lewis]]'s last full episode voicing [[James]]. He will be replaced by [[Eric Stuart]] towards the end of [[EP008|the next episode]].
* This episode has led many fans to believe that {{an|Misty}}'s last name is Waterflower. In actuality, the words "water flowers" used in the title are merely a {{wp|metaphor}} used to describe [[The Sensational Sisters|the three sisters]]' grace and beauty, and their own names come from flower species.
* It is implied in this episode that a [[Gym]] [[Badge]] serves as a secondary ID for a Trainer, or a primary ID for a Gym Leader, as Brock used his Boulder Badge to clear his name in regards to accusations of being a criminal, whereas Ash used his Pokédex as his method of clearing his name.
* This episode begins the gag where Brock becomes immediately infatuated by almost every girl he sees, as he asks Officer Jenny out.
** This episode is also the first episode where Brock is turned down by a girl.
* {{an|Brock}}'s absence during the episode is never explained.
* This is the second time [[Animals in the Pokémon world|real animals]] are shown. Fish are seen behind the glass when Ash walks into the aquarium.
* During this episode, the [[Cerulean Gym]] initially offers Ash a {{Badge|Cascade}} without a fight. This is the first time the [[Cerulean Gym]] was shown surrendering a Badge without a fight, the second being when {{OBP|Jimmy|AG092}} challenges the Cerulean Gym in ''[[AG092|Judgment Day!]]''. Instead of a battle, his Badge was awarded by {{an|Daisy}} for cleaning the pool. The sisters imply situations like these were very common when the Gym was under their leadership in ''[[EP273|Gotta Catch Ya Later!]]''.
** This was the only Gym which had ever offered Ash a Badge without a fight until ''[[DP165|Flint Sparks the Fire!]]'', 624 episodes later.
* This episode was partially adapted into the book [[Splashdown in Cerulean City]].
* This episode is tied for the shortest gap between episodes where Ash has obtained a Badge, having earned his previous Badge only two episodes earlier. The next gap occurs from ''[[EP024|Haunter versus Kadabra]]'' to ''[[EP026|Pokémon Scent-sation!]]''
* This is the first Gym where Ash doesn't use a [[first partner Pokémon]]. It wouldn't happen again until ''[[XY074|Fairy-Type Trickery!]]'', 866 episodes later.
* What {{an|Violet}} sings to Ash after he asks them to battle him is a parody of a Japanese folk song, "Agarime Sagarime".
* The {{pmin|Turkey|Turkish}} title of this episode is misleading for the literal translation, as "water flower" literally means chicken pox.
* This is the only time [[Ash's Butterfree]] is used in a Gym battle.
* [[Misty's Staryu]] knocking Ash's Butterfree into the water is the first of the few instances in the Indigo League episodes that feature a Pokémon considered unable to battle from a condition aside from fainting. In this case, Ash was forced to [[recall]] Butterfree as he was unable to swim.
* In the Japanese version (see Dub Edits below), Misty's Staryu is listed as a hermaphrodite, alluding to how its real-world basis, starfish, [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starfish#Sexual_reproduction technically had both male and female sexual organs].

===Errors===
* When {{Ash}} tells Brock to follow him, his mouth does not move.
** Similarly, when Misty jumps from the stands, she speaks but her mouth does not move.
* Lily and Daisy say that Misty wants to become a [[Pokémon Trainer]]. However, she is already a Pokémon Trainer. Her true goal is to become a {{t|Water}} type [[Pokémon Master]].
* In one scene, a part of {{AP|Pikachu}}'s right ear is missing, making his left ear look longer than his right.
* When Ash, {{ashfr}}, and the [[Sensational Sisters]] look at {{TRT}}'s machine, Ash's gloves are completely light-green.
** Shortly after, the brim on [[Ash's hat]] is colored white instead of red.
* When Pikachu electrocutes Team Rocket, the edge of {{MTR}}'s ears are cream-colored instead of black.
* When Team Rocket begins reciting their motto, [[James]] is holding a light-blue rose instead of red.
* In the English dub, when the recap of the previous episode is shown, the sign is shown to be written in Japanese.
* In the {{pmin|Spain|Spanish}} dub, when Daisy calls for Seel, she says "See-al".

<gallery>
EP007 error.png|Ash's miscolored gloves
EP007 error 2.png|Ash's miscolored hat
EP007 error 3.png|Meowth's miscolored ears
</gallery>

===Dub edits===
* [[Kanto Pokérap]]: Day 2
* The outside of the store Team Rocket looted says "マシーンD" (Machine D) in the Japanese version, while it says "MACHINE SHOP / Industrial supplies / All makes and models" in the dub. The next shot replaces "ルーム" (room) with "LS".
* Like the Pewter Gym, the "Hanada Gym" sign is changed to "Cerulean Gym".
* When Ash's Pokédex reads Staryu, it classifies the Pokémon as a {{wp|hermaphrodite}}. Ash calls this strange, and Misty tells him it shouldn't matter who someone falls in love with. In the English dub, the Pokédex makes no mention of Staryu's gender and instead highlights its shining core, which is sold as a type of jewelry. Ash now remarks that it is typical of a girl to "show off her jewelry", and Misty responds by telling him to "quit stalling".

<gallery>
Store EP007 original.png|The store (original)
Store EP007 dub edit.png|The store (dub)
Cerulean Gym OS.png|The Cerulean Gym (original)
Cerulean Gym OS dub edit.png|The Cerulean Gym (dub)
</gallery>

==In other languages==
{{Epilang|color=AFA|bordercolor=FAA
|ar={{tt|وسام في مدينة سيروليان|A badge in Cerulean City}}
|zh_yue={{tt|美女四人組|The Four Beauties}} {{tt|*|TVB dub}} {{tt|華藍市的水中花|The water flowers of Cerulean City}} {{tt|*|i-Cable dub}}
|zh_cmn={{tt|華藍市的水中花|The water flowers of Cerulean City}} {{tt|*|Taiwan}} {{tt|花蓝市的水中花|Water Flowers of Cerulean City}} {{tt|*|Mainland China}}
|ca_vc={{tt|Les flors aquàtiques de ciutat Celest|The aquatic flowers of Cerulean City}}
|cs={{tt|Vodní krásky z Blankytného města|The water beauties from Cerulean City}}
|da={{tt|Vandblomsterne i Cerulean City|Water Flowers in Cerulean City}}
|nl={{tt|De Waterbloemen van Cerulean City|The Water Flowers of Cerulean City}}
|fi={{tt|Cerulean Cityn lumpeenkukat|The water-lily flowers of Cerulean City}}
|fr_ca={{tt|Les nymphes de Céruléan|The nymphs of Cerulean}}
|fr_eu={{tt|Les fleurs d'eau d'Azuria|The water flowers of Cerulean}}
|de={{tt|Bezaubernde Schwestern|Enchanting Sisters}}
|el={{tt|Τα Λουλούδια του Βυθού της Σερούλιαν|The Flowers of Cerulean City}}
|he=השחייניות מהעיר סרולין ''{{tt|Ha'sakhyaniyot me'ha'Eer Cerulean|The swimmers from Cerulean City}}''
|hi=Cerulean City के वॉटरफ्लावर्स ''{{tt|Cerulean city ke Waterflowers|The Waterflowers of Cerulean City}}'' {{tt|*|CN dub}} Cerulean शहर के वॉटरफ्लावर्स ''{{tt|Cerulean sheher ke Waterflowers|The Waterflowers of Cerulean City}}'' {{tt|*|Hungama TV dub}}
|hu={{tt|Azúrkékváros vízivirágai|The Water Flowers of Cerulean City}}
|it={{tt|Il segreto di Misty|Misty's secret}} {{tt|*|Italia 1 dub}} {{tt|I fiori di Celestopoli|The flowers of Cerulean City}} {{tt|*|K2 TV dub}}
|ko=결전! 지우 VS 이슬 ''{{tt|Gyeoljeon! jiu VS iseul|Battle! Ash VS Misty}}''
|no={{tt|Vannliljene i Cerulean by!|The water lillies in Cerulean City!}}
|pl={{tt|Wodne Kwiaty Azurii|The Water Flowers of Cerulean City}}
|pt_br={{tt|As Flores Aquáticas da Cidade de Cerulean|The Water Flowers of Cerulean City}}
|pt_eu={{tt|As Nadadoras da Cidade de Cerulean|The Swimmers of Cerulean City}}
|ro={{tt|Florile Apei din Orașul Cerulean|The Water Flowers of Cerulean City}}
|ru={{tt|Водные цветы Церулина|Cerulean's Water Flowers}}
|sr={{tt|Водени цветови града Церулијан|Water Flowers of the City of Cerulean}}
|es_la={{tt|¡Las Flores Acuáticas de Ciudad Celeste!|The Aquatic Flowers of Cerulean City!}}
|es_eu={{tt|Las flores acuáticas de Ciudad Celeste|The aquatic flowers of Cerulean City}}
|sv={{tt|Vattenkrig i Cerulean staden|Water fight in Cerulean City}} {{tt|*|spoken & Pokémon TV title}} {{tt|Cerulean Citys vattenblomma|Cerulean City's water flower}} {{tt|*|VHS release}}
|tr={{tt|Cerulean Şehri'nin Su Çiçekleri|Water Flowers of Cerulean City}}
|uk={{tt|Водяні Квіти Лазурного Міста|Water Flowers of Cerulean City}}
|vi={{tt|Bông hoa trong nước của thành phố Hanada|The water flowers of Cerulean City}}
}}
{{-}}
{{EpicodePrevNext|
prevcode=EP006 |
prevtitle=Clefairy and the Moon Stone |
nextcode=EP008 |
nexttitle=The Path to the Pokémon League |
series=original series |
colorscheme=Kanto}}
{{Project Anime notice}}

{{DEFAULTSORT:0007}}
[[Category:Original series episodes|007]]
[[Category:Episodes written by Yukiyoshi Ōhashi]]
[[Category:Episodes storyboarded and directed by Osamu Inoue]]
[[Category:Episodes storyboarded by Osamu Inoue]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Osamu Inoue]]
[[Category:Episodes animated by Munekatsu Fujita]]
[[Category:Episodes with Gym battles]]
[[Category:Episodes in which Ash gets a Badge]]
[[Category:Episodes focusing on Ash]]
[[Category:Episodes focusing on Misty]]

[[de:Bezaubernde Schwestern]]
[[es:EP007]]
[[fr:EP007]]
[[it:EP007]]
[[ja:無印編第7話]]
[[zh:宝可梦第7集]]

EP007

2024-06-17T02:14:00Z

Weedle Mchairybug: Undo revision 4031349 by Minibug (talk) Provide proof, then.

{{EpicodePrevNext|
prevcode=EP006 |
prevtitle=Clefairy and the Moon Stone |
nextcode=EP008 |
nexttitle=The Path to the Pokémon League |
series=original series |
colorscheme=Kanto}}
{{EpisodeInfobox|
epcode=EP007 |
colorscheme=Kanto|
title_en=The Water Flowers of Cerulean City |
title_ja=ハナダシティのすいちゅうか |
title_ja_trans=The Suichūka of Hanada City |
broadcast_jp=May 13, 1997 |
broadcast_us=September 16, 1998 |
en_series=Indigo League |
en_op=[[Pokémon Theme]] |
ja_op=[[Aim to Be a Pokémon Master|めざせポケモンマスター]] |
ja_ed=[[One Hundred Fifty-One|ひゃくごじゅういち]] |
screen=hd |
olmteam=Team Ota |
scenario=大橋志吉 |
storyboard=井上修 |
director=井上修 |
art=藤田宗克 |
morecredits=yes |
epstaffpage=EP001-EP010 |
footnotes=* {{filb-eppics|pm|007}}
*水中花 ''suichūka'' are a type of artificial flower which "blossoms" when placed in water. }}
'''The Water Flowers of Cerulean City''' (Japanese: ''' ハナダシティのすいちゅうか''' ''The {{tt|Suichūka|water flowers}} of {{tt|Hanada|Cerulean}} City'') is the seventh episode of the [[Pokémon anime]]. It first aired in Japan on May 13, 1997, and in the United States on September 16, 1998.

{{spoilers}}

==Blurb==

Ash seeks the Cascade badge in Cerulean City—but for some reason, Misty doesn't want to join them. When Ash and Brock show up, the city is buzzing about a break-in that just took place—and are initially accused of the crime! (We see Team Rocket commit the robbery, but no one else knows about their involvement yet.)

Ash and Pikachu arrive at the Cerulean City gym, which resembles an aquarium with an Olympic-sized swimming pool. They see a water show performed by the Sensational Cerulean City Synchronized Swimming Sisters. Later on, Ash learns that the sisters are actually the Gym Leaders. He challenges them, but they don't feel like battling and instead offer him the Cascade Badge without a fight.

It looks like Ash will have his Cascade Badge without breaking a sweat...but then a fourth Gym Leader step up! Who is this mysterious Gym Leader? What does Team Rocket plan to do with the stuff they stole? And where's Misty?

==Plot==
Excited about winning his {{badge|Boulder}}, {{Ash}} travels quickly to [[Cerulean City]] to battle for his {{Badge|Cascade}}. For some reason, however, {{an|Misty}} is hesitant and unsuccessfully tries to convince the others to go to [[Vermilion City]] instead. She leaves Ash and {{an|Brock}} as they enter the city.

When Ash and Brock enter Cerulean City, they see a big crowd of people surrounding a building. Unbeknownst to them, {{TRT}} had stolen a vacuum machine from the store overnight. Ash and Brock push through to the front, where they see [[Officer Jenny]], who accuses them of being criminals. When they prove their innocence, she lets them go and ushers the crowd away. After that, they sit on a bench and Ash asks Brock for inside information on the [[Gym Leader]]. Brock tells him that as a Gym Leader, he cannot give out that information. Then Brock decides to check something out that he has been meaning to look at. They split up, and Ash heads to the [[Cerulean Gym]] alone.

When Ash reaches the Gym, he finds three sisters performing a synchronized swimming show for a lively crowd. Ash meets the girls backstage, finds out that they are the Gym Leaders, and challenges them to a battle. The girls, {{ka|Lily}}, {{an|Daisy}}, and {{an|Violet}}, explain that their {{OBP|Pokémon|species}} are too tired to battle from matches against three Trainers from [[Pallet Town]]. Lily shows Ash the trio's final Pokémon, a {{p|Goldeen}}. Daisy claps her hands and a {{p|Seel}} with the badge in its mouth appears, whereupon she offers Ash the {{Badge|Cascade}} without a proper match. Misty, who had been spying on the entire scene, intervenes and challenges Ash to a battle. As it turns out, Misty is herself a Cerulean Gym Leader as well, and also the youngest of [[The Sensational Sisters]], but because she is so much younger than her three sisters, they call her a runt.

After Misty argues with her sisters, she challenges Ash to an official Cerulean Gym battle, two Pokémon per side. Ash tries to send out {{AP|Pikachu}}, but Pikachu refuses to go into battle because he considers Misty a friend. Instead, Ash sends out {{AP|Butterfree}} to battle [[Misty's Staryu]]. Ash hits Staryu with a {{m|Tackle}}, and Staryu replies with several {{m|Water Gun}}s. Butterfree's {{m|Stun Spore}} {{status|paralysis|paralyzes}} Staryu temporarily, though it dives and washes the powder off. Ash tries {{m|Sleep Powder}}, though Staryu dives once again. Staryu performs several Tackles and eventually knocks Butterfree into the pool, causing him to lose the battle. After that, Misty sends out {{TP|Misty|Starmie}} and Ash sends out {{AP|Pidgeotto}}. Pidgeotto uses {{m|Whirlwind}} on Starmie, but it jumps into the water and attacks Pidgeotto. Pidgeotto uses {{m|Gust}}, causing Starmie to hit the wall and its red core to flash, with Misty becoming concerned about Starmie's energy wearing out. However, before the battle can continue, {{TRT}} interrupts and tries to steal all of the {{type|Water}} Pokémon and the water from the Gym using a giant vacuum machine – the one stolen the previous night.

While Team Rocket's vacuum is sucking up the Water Pokémon, Pikachu releases a {{m|Thunderbolt}} attack, which causes Team Rocket to fall into their machine and be sent blasting off. Ash rushes over to the machine and reverses the vacuum, just as Pikachu is sucked in. After Team Rocket is gone, Daisy gives Ash the Cascade Badge in recognition of Pikachu's efforts. Misty tries to argue, but her sisters convince her that if Ash had used Pikachu he would have easily beaten her Water-type Pokémon. Misty agrees with her sisters and claims that when she comes back from her journey with Ash, she will be a great Trainer. Brock then meets Ash outside of the Gym. Ash and Misty continue to argue about who would have won the match, as the trio heads for Vermilion City.

==Major events==

[[File:Ash Cascade Badge.png|thumb|220px|Ash holding the Cascade Badge]]
* {{Ash}} and {{ashfr}} arrive in [[Cerulean City]].
* Ash meets {{an|Daisy}}, {{an|Violet}}, and {{ka|Lily}}, the {{gy|Cerulean}} [[Gym Leader]]s, for the first time.
* {{Gary}} and the other two [[Pallet Town]] {{pkmn|Trainer}}s are revealed to have already defeated the Cerulean Gym.
* Ash learns that {{an|Misty}} is also one of Cerulean City's Gym Leaders and that Daisy, Violet, and Lily are her [[Sensational Sisters|sisters]].
* Ash and Misty {{pkmn|battle}} each other for the first time.
* [[Misty's Staryu]] is revealed to know {{m|Tackle}}.
* [[Ash's Butterfree]] is revealed to know {{m|Stun Spore}}.
* Misty is revealed to own a {{TP|Misty|Starmie}}.
* [[Ash's Pidgeotto]] is revealed to know {{m|Wing Attack}}.
* Ash and Misty's [[Gym]] battle ends in a no-contest, due to the interruption by {{TRT}}.
* Ash gets the {{badge|Cascade}} from Misty's sisters for protecting the Gym from Team Rocket.
{{animeevents}}

===Debuts===
====Humans====
* [[The Sensational Sisters]]:
** {{an|Daisy}}
** {{an|Violet}}
** {{ka|Lily}}

====Pokémon debuts====
* {{p|Starmie}} ({{OP|Misty|Starmie}})
* {{p|Seel}} ([[Seel (Cerulean Gym)|Cerulean Gym's]])

==Characters==
===Humans===
[[File:Dare da EP007.png|thumb|200px|{{tt|Dare da?|Who's That Pokémon?}}]]
* {{Ash}}
* {{an|Misty}}
* {{an|Brock}}
* [[Jessie]]
* [[James]]
* [[Officer Jenny]]
* [[The Sensational Sisters]]
** {{an|Daisy}}
** {{an|Violet}}
** {{ka|Lily}}
* {{Gary}} (flashback in the Japanese version; voice only in the dub)

===Pokémon===
[[File:WTP EP007.png|thumb|200px|Who's That Pokémon?]]
[[Who's That Pokémon?]]: {{p|Seel}}
* {{p|Pikachu}} ({{OP|Ash|Pikachu}})
* {{p|Meowth}} ({{TRM}})
* {{p|Butterfree}} ({{OP|Ash|Butterfree}})
* {{p|Pidgeotto}} ({{OP|Ash|Pidgeotto}})
* {{p|Staryu}} ({{OP|Misty|Staryu}})
* {{p|Starmie}} ({{OP|Misty|Starmie}}; debut)
* {{p|Seel}} ([[Seel (Cerulean Gym)|Cerulean Gym's]]; debut)
* {{p|Goldeen}} ({{ka|Lily}}'s)

==Trivia==
[[File:Fish EP007.png|thumb|200px|Real world fish]]
* This is [[Ted Lewis]]'s last full episode voicing [[James]]. He will be replaced by [[Eric Stuart]] towards the end of [[EP008|the next episode]].
* This episode has led many fans to believe that {{an|Misty}}'s last name is Waterflower. In actuality, the words "water flowers" used in the title are merely a {{wp|metaphor}} used to describe [[The Sensational Sisters|the three sisters]]' grace and beauty, and their own names come from flower species.
* It is implied in this episode that a [[Gym]] [[Badge]] serves as a secondary ID for a Trainer, or a primary ID for a Gym Leader, as Brock used his Boulder Badge to clear his name in regards to accusations of being a criminal, whereas Ash used his Pokédex as his method of clearing his name.
* This episode begins the gag where Brock becomes immediately infatuated by almost every girl he sees, as he asks Officer Jenny out.
** This episode is also the first episode where Brock is turned down by a girl.
* {{an|Brock}}'s absence during the episode is never explained.
* This is the second time [[Animals in the Pokémon world|real animals]] are shown. Fish are seen behind the glass when Ash walks into the aquarium.
* During this episode, the [[Cerulean Gym]] initially offers Ash a {{Badge|Cascade}} without a fight. This is the first time the [[Cerulean Gym]] was shown surrendering a Badge without a fight, the second being when {{OBP|Jimmy|AG092}} challenges the Cerulean Gym in ''[[AG092|Judgment Day!]]''. Instead of a battle, his Badge was awarded by {{an|Daisy}} for cleaning the pool. The sisters imply situations like these were very common when the Gym was under their leadership in ''[[EP273|Gotta Catch Ya Later!]]''.
** This was the only Gym which had ever offered Ash a Badge without a fight until ''[[DP165|Flint Sparks the Fire!]]'', 624 episodes later.
* This episode was partially adapted into the book [[Splashdown in Cerulean City]].
* This episode is tied for the shortest gap between episodes where Ash has obtained a Badge, having earned his previous Badge only two episodes earlier. The next gap occurs from ''[[EP024|Haunter versus Kadabra]]'' to ''[[EP026|Pokémon Scent-sation!]]''
* This is the first Gym where Ash doesn't use a [[first partner Pokémon]]. It wouldn't happen again until ''[[XY074|Fairy-Type Trickery!]]'', 866 episodes later.
* What {{an|Violet}} sings to Ash after he asks them to battle him is a parody of a Japanese folk song, "Agarime Sagarime".
* The {{pmin|Turkey|Turkish}} title of this episode is misleading for the literal translation, as "water flower" literally means chicken pox.
* This is the only time [[Ash's Butterfree]] is used in a Gym battle.
* [[Misty's Staryu]] knocking Ash's Butterfree into the water is the first of the few instances in the Indigo League episodes that feature a Pokémon considered unable to battle from a condition aside from fainting. In this case, Ash was forced to [[recall]] Butterfree as he was unable to swim.

===Errors===
* When {{Ash}} tells Brock to follow him, his mouth does not move.
** Similarly, when Misty jumps from the stands, she speaks but her mouth does not move.
* Lily and Daisy say that Misty wants to become a [[Pokémon Trainer]]. However, she is already a Pokémon Trainer. Her true goal is to become a {{t|Water}} type [[Pokémon Master]].
* In one scene, a part of {{AP|Pikachu}}'s right ear is missing, making his left ear look longer than his right.
* When Ash, {{ashfr}}, and the [[Sensational Sisters]] look at {{TRT}}'s machine, Ash's gloves are completely light-green.
** Shortly after, the brim on [[Ash's hat]] is colored white instead of red.
* When Pikachu electrocutes Team Rocket, the edge of {{MTR}}'s ears are cream-colored instead of black.
* When Team Rocket begins reciting their motto, [[James]] is holding a light-blue rose instead of red.
* In the English dub, when the recap of the previous episode is shown, the sign is shown to be written in Japanese.
* In the {{pmin|Spain|Spanish}} dub, when Daisy calls for Seel, she says "See-al".

<gallery>
EP007 error.png|Ash's miscolored gloves
EP007 error 2.png|Ash's miscolored hat
EP007 error 3.png|Meowth's miscolored ears
</gallery>

===Dub edits===
* [[Kanto Pokérap]]: Day 2
* The outside of the store Team Rocket looted says "マシーンD" (Machine D) in the Japanese version, while it says "MACHINE SHOP / Industrial supplies / All makes and models" in the dub. The next shot replaces "ルーム" (room) with "LS".
* Like the Pewter Gym, the "Hanada Gym" sign is changed to "Cerulean Gym".

<gallery>
Store EP007 original.png|The store (original)
Store EP007 dub edit.png|The store (dub)
Cerulean Gym OS.png|The Cerulean Gym (original)
Cerulean Gym OS dub edit.png|The Cerulean Gym (dub)
</gallery>

==In other languages==
{{Epilang|color=AFA|bordercolor=FAA
|ar={{tt|وسام في مدينة سيروليان|A badge in Cerulean City}}
|zh_yue={{tt|美女四人組|The Four Beauties}} {{tt|*|TVB dub}} {{tt|華藍市的水中花|The water flowers of Cerulean City}} {{tt|*|i-Cable dub}}
|zh_cmn={{tt|華藍市的水中花|The water flowers of Cerulean City}} {{tt|*|Taiwan}} {{tt|花蓝市的水中花|Water Flowers of Cerulean City}} {{tt|*|Mainland China}}
|ca_vc={{tt|Les flors aquàtiques de ciutat Celest|The aquatic flowers of Cerulean City}}
|cs={{tt|Vodní krásky z Blankytného města|The water beauties from Cerulean City}}
|da={{tt|Vandblomsterne i Cerulean City|Water Flowers in Cerulean City}}
|nl={{tt|De Waterbloemen van Cerulean City|The Water Flowers of Cerulean City}}
|fi={{tt|Cerulean Cityn lumpeenkukat|The water-lily flowers of Cerulean City}}
|fr_ca={{tt|Les nymphes de Céruléan|The nymphs of Cerulean}}
|fr_eu={{tt|Les fleurs d'eau d'Azuria|The water flowers of Cerulean}}
|de={{tt|Bezaubernde Schwestern|Enchanting Sisters}}
|el={{tt|Τα Λουλούδια του Βυθού της Σερούλιαν|The Flowers of Cerulean City}}
|he=השחייניות מהעיר סרולין ''{{tt|Ha'sakhyaniyot me'ha'Eer Cerulean|The swimmers from Cerulean City}}''
|hi=Cerulean City के वॉटरफ्लावर्स ''{{tt|Cerulean city ke Waterflowers|The Waterflowers of Cerulean City}}'' {{tt|*|CN dub}} Cerulean शहर के वॉटरफ्लावर्स ''{{tt|Cerulean sheher ke Waterflowers|The Waterflowers of Cerulean City}}'' {{tt|*|Hungama TV dub}}
|hu={{tt|Azúrkékváros vízivirágai|The Water Flowers of Cerulean City}}
|it={{tt|Il segreto di Misty|Misty's secret}} {{tt|*|Italia 1 dub}} {{tt|I fiori di Celestopoli|The flowers of Cerulean City}} {{tt|*|K2 TV dub}}
|ko=결전! 지우 VS 이슬 ''{{tt|Gyeoljeon! jiu VS iseul|Battle! Ash VS Misty}}''
|no={{tt|Vannliljene i Cerulean by!|The water lillies in Cerulean City!}}
|pl={{tt|Wodne Kwiaty Azurii|The Water Flowers of Cerulean City}}
|pt_br={{tt|As Flores Aquáticas da Cidade de Cerulean|The Water Flowers of Cerulean City}}
|pt_eu={{tt|As Nadadoras da Cidade de Cerulean|The Swimmers of Cerulean City}}
|ro={{tt|Florile Apei din Orașul Cerulean|The Water Flowers of Cerulean City}}
|ru={{tt|Водные цветы Церулина|Cerulean's Water Flowers}}
|sr={{tt|Водени цветови града Церулијан|Water Flowers of the City of Cerulean}}
|es_la={{tt|¡Las Flores Acuáticas de Ciudad Celeste!|The Aquatic Flowers of Cerulean City!}}
|es_eu={{tt|Las flores acuáticas de Ciudad Celeste|The aquatic flowers of Cerulean City}}
|sv={{tt|Vattenkrig i Cerulean staden|Water fight in Cerulean City}} {{tt|*|spoken & Pokémon TV title}} {{tt|Cerulean Citys vattenblomma|Cerulean City's water flower}} {{tt|*|VHS release}}
|tr={{tt|Cerulean Şehri'nin Su Çiçekleri|Water Flowers of Cerulean City}}
|uk={{tt|Водяні Квіти Лазурного Міста|Water Flowers of Cerulean City}}
|vi={{tt|Bông hoa trong nước của thành phố Hanada|The water flowers of Cerulean City}}
}}
{{-}}
{{EpicodePrevNext|
prevcode=EP006 |
prevtitle=Clefairy and the Moon Stone |
nextcode=EP008 |
nexttitle=The Path to the Pokémon League |
series=original series |
colorscheme=Kanto}}
{{Project Anime notice}}

{{DEFAULTSORT:0007}}
[[Category:Original series episodes|007]]
[[Category:Episodes written by Yukiyoshi Ōhashi]]
[[Category:Episodes storyboarded and directed by Osamu Inoue]]
[[Category:Episodes storyboarded by Osamu Inoue]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Osamu Inoue]]
[[Category:Episodes animated by Munekatsu Fujita]]
[[Category:Episodes with Gym battles]]
[[Category:Episodes in which Ash gets a Badge]]
[[Category:Episodes focusing on Ash]]
[[Category:Episodes focusing on Misty]]

[[de:Bezaubernde Schwestern]]
[[es:EP007]]
[[fr:EP007]]
[[it:EP007]]
[[ja:無印編第7話]]
[[zh:宝可梦第7集]]

EP007

2024-06-16T20:29:19Z

Weedle Mchairybug: /* Dub edits */ Not even Dogasu ever alluded to this bit when comparing the two versions of the episode, so removing.

{{EpicodePrevNext|
prevcode=EP006 |
prevtitle=Clefairy and the Moon Stone |
nextcode=EP008 |
nexttitle=The Path to the Pokémon League |
series=original series |
colorscheme=Kanto}}
{{EpisodeInfobox|
epcode=EP007 |
colorscheme=Kanto|
title_en=The Water Flowers of Cerulean City |
title_ja=ハナダシティのすいちゅうか |
title_ja_trans=The Suichūka of Hanada City |
broadcast_jp=May 13, 1997 |
broadcast_us=September 16, 1998 |
en_series=Indigo League |
en_op=[[Pokémon Theme]] |
ja_op=[[Aim to Be a Pokémon Master|めざせポケモンマスター]] |
ja_ed=[[One Hundred Fifty-One|ひゃくごじゅういち]] |
screen=hd |
olmteam=Team Ota |
scenario=大橋志吉 |
storyboard=井上修 |
director=井上修 |
art=藤田宗克 |
morecredits=yes |
epstaffpage=EP001-EP010 |
footnotes=* {{filb-eppics|pm|007}}
*水中花 ''suichūka'' are a type of artificial flower which "blossoms" when placed in water. }}
'''The Water Flowers of Cerulean City''' (Japanese: ''' ハナダシティのすいちゅうか''' ''The {{tt|Suichūka|water flowers}} of {{tt|Hanada|Cerulean}} City'') is the seventh episode of the [[Pokémon anime]]. It first aired in Japan on May 13, 1997, and in the United States on September 16, 1998.

{{spoilers}}

==Blurb==

Ash seeks the Cascade badge in Cerulean City—but for some reason, Misty doesn't want to join them. When Ash and Brock show up, the city is buzzing about a break-in that just took place—and are initially accused of the crime! (We see Team Rocket commit the robbery, but no one else knows about their involvement yet.)

Ash and Pikachu arrive at the Cerulean City gym, which resembles an aquarium with an Olympic-sized swimming pool. They see a water show performed by the Sensational Cerulean City Synchronized Swimming Sisters. Later on, Ash learns that the sisters are actually the Gym Leaders. He challenges them, but they don't feel like battling and instead offer him the Cascade Badge without a fight.

It looks like Ash will have his Cascade Badge without breaking a sweat...but then a fourth Gym Leader step up! Who is this mysterious Gym Leader? What does Team Rocket plan to do with the stuff they stole? And where's Misty?

==Plot==
Excited about winning his {{badge|Boulder}}, {{Ash}} travels quickly to [[Cerulean City]] to battle for his {{Badge|Cascade}}. For some reason, however, {{an|Misty}} is hesitant and unsuccessfully tries to convince the others to go to [[Vermilion City]] instead. She leaves Ash and {{an|Brock}} as they enter the city.

When Ash and Brock enter Cerulean City, they see a big crowd of people surrounding a building. Unbeknownst to them, {{TRT}} had stolen a vacuum machine from the store overnight. Ash and Brock push through to the front, where they see [[Officer Jenny]], who accuses them of being criminals. When they prove their innocence, she lets them go and ushers the crowd away. After that, they sit on a bench and Ash asks Brock for inside information on the [[Gym Leader]]. Brock tells him that as a Gym Leader, he cannot give out that information. Then Brock decides to check something out that he has been meaning to look at. They split up, and Ash heads to the [[Cerulean Gym]] alone.

When Ash reaches the Gym, he finds three sisters performing a synchronized swimming show for a lively crowd. Ash meets the girls backstage, finds out that they are the Gym Leaders, and challenges them to a battle. The girls, {{ka|Lily}}, {{an|Daisy}}, and {{an|Violet}}, explain that their {{OBP|Pokémon|species}} are too tired to battle from matches against three Trainers from [[Pallet Town]]. Lily shows Ash the trio's final Pokémon, a {{p|Goldeen}}. Daisy claps her hands and a {{p|Seel}} with the badge in its mouth appears, whereupon she offers Ash the {{Badge|Cascade}} without a proper match. Misty, who had been spying on the entire scene, intervenes and challenges Ash to a battle. As it turns out, Misty is herself a Cerulean Gym Leader as well, and also the youngest of [[The Sensational Sisters]], but because she is so much younger than her three sisters, they call her a runt.

After Misty argues with her sisters, she challenges Ash to an official Cerulean Gym battle, two Pokémon per side. Ash tries to send out {{AP|Pikachu}}, but Pikachu refuses to go into battle because he considers Misty a friend. Instead, Ash sends out {{AP|Butterfree}} to battle [[Misty's Staryu]]. Ash hits Staryu with a {{m|Tackle}}, and Staryu replies with several {{m|Water Gun}}s. Butterfree's {{m|Stun Spore}} {{status|paralysis|paralyzes}} Staryu temporarily, though it dives and washes the powder off. Ash tries {{m|Sleep Powder}}, though Staryu dives once again. Staryu performs several Tackles and eventually knocks Butterfree into the pool, causing him to lose the battle. After that, Misty sends out {{TP|Misty|Starmie}} and Ash sends out {{AP|Pidgeotto}}. Pidgeotto uses {{m|Whirlwind}} on Starmie, but it jumps into the water and attacks Pidgeotto. Pidgeotto uses {{m|Gust}}, causing Starmie to hit the wall and its red core to flash, with Misty becoming concerned about Starmie's energy wearing out. However, before the battle can continue, {{TRT}} interrupts and tries to steal all of the {{type|Water}} Pokémon and the water from the Gym using a giant vacuum machine – the one stolen the previous night.

While Team Rocket's vacuum is sucking up the Water Pokémon, Pikachu releases a {{m|Thunderbolt}} attack, which causes Team Rocket to fall into their machine and be sent blasting off. Ash rushes over to the machine and reverses the vacuum, just as Pikachu is sucked in. After Team Rocket is gone, Daisy gives Ash the Cascade Badge in recognition of Pikachu's efforts. Misty tries to argue, but her sisters convince her that if Ash had used Pikachu he would have easily beaten her Water-type Pokémon. Misty agrees with her sisters and claims that when she comes back from her journey with Ash, she will be a great Trainer. Brock then meets Ash outside of the Gym. Ash and Misty continue to argue about who would have won the match, as the trio heads for Vermilion City.

==Major events==

[[File:Ash Cascade Badge.png|thumb|220px|Ash holding the Cascade Badge]]
* {{Ash}} and {{ashfr}} arrive in [[Cerulean City]].
* Ash meets {{an|Daisy}}, {{an|Violet}}, and {{ka|Lily}}, the {{gy|Cerulean}} [[Gym Leader]]s, for the first time.
* {{Gary}} and the other two [[Pallet Town]] {{pkmn|Trainer}}s are revealed to have already defeated the Cerulean Gym.
* Ash learns that {{an|Misty}} is also one of Cerulean City's Gym Leaders and that Daisy, Violet, and Lily are her [[Sensational Sisters|sisters]].
* Ash and Misty {{pkmn|battle}} each other for the first time.
* [[Misty's Staryu]] is revealed to know {{m|Tackle}}.
* [[Ash's Butterfree]] is revealed to know {{m|Stun Spore}}.
* Misty is revealed to own a {{TP|Misty|Starmie}}.
* [[Ash's Pidgeotto]] is revealed to know {{m|Wing Attack}}.
* Ash and Misty's [[Gym]] battle ends in a no-contest, due to the interruption by {{TRT}}.
* Ash gets the {{badge|Cascade}} from Misty's sisters for protecting the Gym from Team Rocket.
{{animeevents}}

===Debuts===
====Humans====
* [[The Sensational Sisters]]:
** {{an|Daisy}}
** {{an|Violet}}
** {{ka|Lily}}

====Pokémon debuts====
* {{p|Starmie}} ({{OP|Misty|Starmie}})
* {{p|Seel}} ([[Seel (Cerulean Gym)|Cerulean Gym's]])

==Characters==
===Humans===
[[File:Dare da EP007.png|thumb|200px|{{tt|Dare da?|Who's That Pokémon?}}]]
* {{Ash}}
* {{an|Misty}}
* {{an|Brock}}
* [[Jessie]]
* [[James]]
* [[Officer Jenny]]
* [[The Sensational Sisters]]
** {{an|Daisy}}
** {{an|Violet}}
** {{ka|Lily}}
* {{Gary}} (flashback in the Japanese version; voice only in the dub)

===Pokémon===
[[File:WTP EP007.png|thumb|200px|Who's That Pokémon?]]
[[Who's That Pokémon?]]: {{p|Seel}}
* {{p|Pikachu}} ({{OP|Ash|Pikachu}})
* {{p|Meowth}} ({{TRM}})
* {{p|Butterfree}} ({{OP|Ash|Butterfree}})
* {{p|Pidgeotto}} ({{OP|Ash|Pidgeotto}})
* {{p|Staryu}} ({{OP|Misty|Staryu}})
* {{p|Starmie}} ({{OP|Misty|Starmie}}; debut)
* {{p|Seel}} ([[Seel (Cerulean Gym)|Cerulean Gym's]]; debut)
* {{p|Goldeen}} ({{ka|Lily}}'s)

==Trivia==
[[File:Fish EP007.png|thumb|200px|Real world fish]]
* This is [[Ted Lewis]]'s last full episode voicing [[James]]. He will be replaced by [[Eric Stuart]] towards the end of [[EP008|the next episode]].
* This episode has led many fans to believe that {{an|Misty}}'s last name is Waterflower. In actuality, the words "water flowers" used in the title are merely a {{wp|metaphor}} used to describe [[The Sensational Sisters|the three sisters]]' grace and beauty, and their own names come from flower species.
* It is implied in this episode that a [[Gym]] [[Badge]] serves as a secondary ID for a Trainer, or a primary ID for a Gym Leader, as Brock used his Boulder Badge to clear his name in regards to accusations of being a criminal, whereas Ash used his Pokédex as his method of clearing his name.
* This episode begins the gag where Brock becomes immediately infatuated by almost every girl he sees, as he asks Officer Jenny out.
** This episode is also the first episode where Brock is turned down by a girl.
* {{an|Brock}}'s absence during the episode is never explained.
* This is the second time [[Animals in the Pokémon world|real animals]] are shown. Fish are seen behind the glass when Ash walks into the aquarium.
* During this episode, the [[Cerulean Gym]] initially offers Ash a {{Badge|Cascade}} without a fight. This is the first time the [[Cerulean Gym]] was shown surrendering a Badge without a fight, the second being when {{OBP|Jimmy|AG092}} challenges the Cerulean Gym in ''[[AG092|Judgment Day!]]''. Instead of a battle, his Badge was awarded by {{an|Daisy}} for cleaning the pool. The sisters imply situations like these were very common when the Gym was under their leadership in ''[[EP273|Gotta Catch Ya Later!]]''.
** This was the only Gym which had ever offered Ash a Badge without a fight until ''[[DP165|Flint Sparks the Fire!]]'', 624 episodes later.
* This episode was partially adapted into the book [[Splashdown in Cerulean City]].
* This episode is tied for the shortest gap between episodes where Ash has obtained a Badge, having earned his previous Badge only two episodes earlier. The next gap occurs from ''[[EP024|Haunter versus Kadabra]]'' to ''[[EP026|Pokémon Scent-sation!]]''
* This is the first Gym where Ash doesn't use a [[first partner Pokémon]]. It wouldn't happen again until ''[[XY074|Fairy-Type Trickery!]]'', 866 episodes later.
* What {{an|Violet}} sings to Ash after he asks them to battle him is a parody of a Japanese folk song, "Agarime Sagarime".
* The {{pmin|Turkey|Turkish}} title of this episode is misleading for the literal translation, as "water flower" literally means chicken pox.
* This is the only time [[Ash's Butterfree]] is used in a Gym battle.
* [[Misty's Staryu]] knocking Ash's Butterfree into the water is the first of the few instances in the Indigo League episodes that feature a Pokémon considered unable to battle from a condition aside from fainting. In this case, Ash was forced to [[recall]] Butterfree as he was unable to swim.

===Errors===
* When {{Ash}} tells Brock to follow him, his mouth does not move.
** Similarly, when Misty jumps from the stands, she speaks but her mouth does not move.
* Lily and Daisy say that Misty wants to become a [[Pokémon Trainer]]. However, she is already a Pokémon Trainer. Her true goal is to become a {{t|Water}} type [[Pokémon Master]].
* In one scene, a part of {{AP|Pikachu}}'s right ear is missing, making his left ear look longer than his right.
* When Ash, {{ashfr}}, and the [[Sensational Sisters]] look at {{TRT}}'s machine, Ash's gloves are completely light-green.
** Shortly after, the brim on [[Ash's hat]] is colored white instead of red.
* When Pikachu electrocutes Team Rocket, the edge of {{MTR}}'s ears are cream-colored instead of black.
* When Team Rocket begins reciting their motto, [[James]] is holding a light-blue rose instead of red.
* In the English dub, when the recap of the previous episode is shown, the sign is shown to be written in Japanese.
* In the {{pmin|Spain|Spanish}} dub, when Daisy calls for Seel, she says "See-al".

<gallery>
EP007 error.png|Ash's miscolored gloves
EP007 error 2.png|Ash's miscolored hat
EP007 error 3.png|Meowth's miscolored ears
</gallery>

===Dub edits===
* [[Kanto Pokérap]]: Day 2
* The outside of the store Team Rocket looted says "マシーンD" (Machine D) in the Japanese version, while it says "MACHINE SHOP / Industrial supplies / All makes and models" in the dub. The next shot replaces "ルーム" (room) with "LS".
* Like the Pewter Gym, the "Hanada Gym" sign is changed to "Cerulean Gym".

<gallery>
Store EP007 original.png|The store (original)
Store EP007 dub edit.png|The store (dub)
Cerulean Gym OS.png|The Cerulean Gym (original)
Cerulean Gym OS dub edit.png|The Cerulean Gym (dub)
</gallery>

==In other languages==
{{Epilang|color=AFA|bordercolor=FAA
|ar={{tt|وسام في مدينة سيروليان|A badge in Cerulean City}}
|zh_yue={{tt|美女四人組|The Four Beauties}} {{tt|*|TVB dub}} {{tt|華藍市的水中花|The water flowers of Cerulean City}} {{tt|*|i-Cable dub}}
|zh_cmn={{tt|華藍市的水中花|The water flowers of Cerulean City}} {{tt|*|Taiwan}} {{tt|花蓝市的水中花|Water Flowers of Cerulean City}} {{tt|*|Mainland China}}
|ca_vc={{tt|Les flors aquàtiques de ciutat Celest|The aquatic flowers of Cerulean City}}
|cs={{tt|Vodní krásky z Blankytného města|The water beauties from Cerulean City}}
|da={{tt|Vandblomsterne i Cerulean City|Water Flowers in Cerulean City}}
|nl={{tt|De Waterbloemen van Cerulean City|The Water Flowers of Cerulean City}}
|fi={{tt|Cerulean Cityn lumpeenkukat|The water-lily flowers of Cerulean City}}
|fr_ca={{tt|Les nymphes de Céruléan|The nymphs of Cerulean}}
|fr_eu={{tt|Les fleurs d'eau d'Azuria|The water flowers of Cerulean}}
|de={{tt|Bezaubernde Schwestern|Enchanting Sisters}}
|el={{tt|Τα Λουλούδια του Βυθού της Σερούλιαν|The Flowers of Cerulean City}}
|he=השחייניות מהעיר סרולין ''{{tt|Ha'sakhyaniyot me'ha'Eer Cerulean|The swimmers from Cerulean City}}''
|hi=Cerulean City के वॉटरफ्लावर्स ''{{tt|Cerulean city ke Waterflowers|The Waterflowers of Cerulean City}}'' {{tt|*|CN dub}} Cerulean शहर के वॉटरफ्लावर्स ''{{tt|Cerulean sheher ke Waterflowers|The Waterflowers of Cerulean City}}'' {{tt|*|Hungama TV dub}}
|hu={{tt|Azúrkékváros vízivirágai|The Water Flowers of Cerulean City}}
|it={{tt|Il segreto di Misty|Misty's secret}} {{tt|*|Italia 1 dub}} {{tt|I fiori di Celestopoli|The flowers of Cerulean City}} {{tt|*|K2 TV dub}}
|ko=결전! 지우 VS 이슬 ''{{tt|Gyeoljeon! jiu VS iseul|Battle! Ash VS Misty}}''
|no={{tt|Vannliljene i Cerulean by!|The water lillies in Cerulean City!}}
|pl={{tt|Wodne Kwiaty Azurii|The Water Flowers of Cerulean City}}
|pt_br={{tt|As Flores Aquáticas da Cidade de Cerulean|The Water Flowers of Cerulean City}}
|pt_eu={{tt|As Nadadoras da Cidade de Cerulean|The Swimmers of Cerulean City}}
|ro={{tt|Florile Apei din Orașul Cerulean|The Water Flowers of Cerulean City}}
|ru={{tt|Водные цветы Церулина|Cerulean's Water Flowers}}
|sr={{tt|Водени цветови града Церулијан|Water Flowers of the City of Cerulean}}
|es_la={{tt|¡Las Flores Acuáticas de Ciudad Celeste!|The Aquatic Flowers of Cerulean City!}}
|es_eu={{tt|Las flores acuáticas de Ciudad Celeste|The aquatic flowers of Cerulean City}}
|sv={{tt|Vattenkrig i Cerulean staden|Water fight in Cerulean City}} {{tt|*|spoken & Pokémon TV title}} {{tt|Cerulean Citys vattenblomma|Cerulean City's water flower}} {{tt|*|VHS release}}
|tr={{tt|Cerulean Şehri'nin Su Çiçekleri|Water Flowers of Cerulean City}}
|uk={{tt|Водяні Квіти Лазурного Міста|Water Flowers of Cerulean City}}
|vi={{tt|Bông hoa trong nước của thành phố Hanada|The water flowers of Cerulean City}}
}}
{{-}}
{{EpicodePrevNext|
prevcode=EP006 |
prevtitle=Clefairy and the Moon Stone |
nextcode=EP008 |
nexttitle=The Path to the Pokémon League |
series=original series |
colorscheme=Kanto}}
{{Project Anime notice}}

{{DEFAULTSORT:0007}}
[[Category:Original series episodes|007]]
[[Category:Episodes written by Yukiyoshi Ōhashi]]
[[Category:Episodes storyboarded and directed by Osamu Inoue]]
[[Category:Episodes storyboarded by Osamu Inoue]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Osamu Inoue]]
[[Category:Episodes animated by Munekatsu Fujita]]
[[Category:Episodes with Gym battles]]
[[Category:Episodes in which Ash gets a Badge]]
[[Category:Episodes focusing on Ash]]
[[Category:Episodes focusing on Misty]]

[[de:Bezaubernde Schwestern]]
[[es:EP007]]
[[fr:EP007]]
[[it:EP007]]
[[ja:無印編第7話]]
[[zh:宝可梦第7集]]

User talk:Weedle Mchairybug

2024-06-16T20:00:13Z

Weedle Mchairybug: /* Sensational Sisters */

Psst. Capitalize your sentences. Don't capitalize random words that aren't important. Follow the {{bp|manual of style}} and good ol' English grammar. And accent that é in Pokémon! '''[[User:TTEchidna|TTE]][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 23:23, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

As {{u|TTEchidna}} said, Capitalize your sentences! And where did you get the idea that Misty was the champion of the Togepi competition? IT WASN'T REAL! It was a trap set by Team Rocket so that they could steal her Togepi for [[Colonel Hansen]]. --[[Special:Contributions/Kenji-girl|☆]][[Tracey Sketchit|ケンジ]][[User:Kenji-girl|ガール]] 21:53, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

WOW!!! Though your new, you put up a very good, strong point in arguements! I congratulate you on that! You should start making edits on regular pages, not just talk pages. Good Job!!! --'''[[User:Theryguy512|Theryguy]][[User:Theryguy512/Contribution Page|5]][[User:Theryguy512/Mission Page|1]][[User:Theryguy512/Games|2]]''' 22:21, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

== Errors ==

I really don't think they are errors, Ash has a long journey that's still going, you can't expect him to remember every moment that happened to him. [[User:TheBlazikenMaster|TheBlazikenMaster]] 15:00, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, yeah, but May's was just beginning and the Rubello convention was just after the Fallabor contest, so that same logic can't be applied there. And anyways, it's not that they HAVE to remember everything, but that doesn't mean they should act as though they never heard of it. I mean, that's like forgetting the day of your birth. Besides, how can he forget about a pokemon he owned?![[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 15:16, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
:You do realize its just a tv show. So the writers forgot to have him remember something. Thats an error.[[User:Darth Cookie Monster|Emperor's Cookies]] 15:20, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
::Ok, it fit under error, but just memory error. I still think it's not error as in "senseless". Ok, I am keeping those in the articles as it might look interesting. But I still think the word "forget" is a better way to describe it than "acted like he never heard of...", since that's what's happening, if you act like something never happens the best way to describe it is with the word forget. I am not planning on removing from [[EP233]] or [[AG072]], don't worry. But I still think the word forget is a better way to word it than "acts like he's never heard of". Besides, Ash only had the Primeape for a few episodes, I'm not surprised he forgot about it. [[User:TheBlazikenMaster|TheBlazikenMaster]] 21:14, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

== Misty's Togetic ==

Ok, u win, just fix the grammar!--[[User:Kuki|Kuki]][[User talk:Kuki|Talk]] 12:17, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
:Done and done. Also, thanks. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 12:24, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

== Brock: Only character who looks Japanese ==

WRONG! It's him, Flint, and the Harrison Kids!--[[User:Kuki|Kuki]][[User talk:Kuki|Talk]] 15:09, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Sigh, let me clarify, Brock is the only one of the MAIN characters who looked Japanese. Flint, his siblings, Harrison Kids, Ninetales owner, Suziko, and that Mime jr/Bonsly show director were either side characters or one-shots. If you edited it, I'll revert the edit and make sure I clarified what I was trying to convey
[[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 15:15, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

== Movie 11 ==
I am going to overlook the fact that you overrode an editorial member's contribution without even paying attention to whether or not it supported your point (for instance, you deleted the paragraph in which I stated that the movies marks Origine Forme and Sky Forme's debuts; how is that controversial?). It is childish conduct, but I am used to it by now.

You should have realized that the content I deleted was all ''conjecture''; I couldn't have very well stated erroneous or unfounded information when I only removed other members' conjecture, could I? It may be true that when the first movie was revealed we had good reason to believe that Palkia would tag along with Dialga, but even back then that was not clearly implied. Since then, Dialga and Regigigas have been shown to have some role in the movie on numerous occasions, whereas Palkia has all but been forgotten. As for the new Pokémon, early toy advertisements led some to believe that the unrevealed Pokémon would pertain to the next generation. Since then, Sky Forme has been unveiled and confirmed to be that very same unrevealed Pokémon, leaving no viable reason to suspect that that speculation could still have merit.

All of the above warranted the deletion of the conjecture from the page as soon as last month. But I have refrained from doing so because I knew that certain members' obstinacy could prove problematic. However, by now circumstances have changed due to the fact that the movie has premiered in an early showing in a limited number of Japanese theaters. We already have a synopsis that may not be full-fledged, but is good enough to remove doubt on the subject of Palkia and new Pokémon: They are nowhere to be seen. --[[User:Unown Lord|Unown Lord]] 09:13, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

== Try not to be so biased... ==

Even if Hidaka's statement did sound kinda sexist, well, shit, it's true. Have you ''seen'' the amount of 34 there is of Pokémon, and not just of the human characters? I'm sure you have. Face it, older fans are complete pervs, and it's not like giving Misty short shorts, May a huge rack, and Dawn a short skirt isn't just as sexist. Heck, you couldn't even PLAY as a girl until Crystal! It's not that they're being sexist; it's that they have the internet and know of all the stuff out there... and so therefore, like in ''[[DP039|Steamboat Willies]]'', fanservice, fanservice, fanservice.

Anyway, I reworded the statement, hoping to be more NPOV. Now I'm gonna go wash my keyboard off, because I don't wanna start becoming one of those acronym-throwing Wikipedos. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 23:22, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

:Actually, if I was being biased, I would have only inserted it into Misty's article, and not even have bothered to insert it in May and Dawns articles. Besides, technically, you can play as a girl before Kris, since Misty was playable in Pokemon Puzzle League. And since Love hina comes to mind, in my mindset, Fanservice = sexist. And anyways, May and Dawn were even MORE Fanservicey than Misty (I go by the definition that it's only fanservicey if the person clearly enjoys doing the scandalous thing, or at least implies the enjoyment [Like the majority of the characters in LH, for example.].). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 23:53, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

::I've said this already, but you do not control the definitions of words. Society does. Especially on a wiki, it's important to rely on objective definitions rather than subjective opinions. And even if we go by your definition, Misty clearly enjoyed showing off her body in the Porta Vista Beauty Contest, dressing in that Goldeen swimsuit, and in that mermaid costume, and I don't recall Dawn doing anything "scandalous" on purpose. --[[User:PsychoRobo|PsychoRobo]] 17:09, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

:::No, Misty DIDN'T enjoy the Porta Vista Beauty Contest. She said "It's so degrading, but I need the money" when having to do it, which meant that she didn't like showing off like a playboy model. Also, in regards to the Goldeen outfit, Misty ALSO didn't enjoy it either. She said something like "at least they aren't taking notice of me", which implied she didn't really like the situation she was in (much less having to wear that outfit.). The Mermaid Outfit, she didn't really like having to wear it (ESP. in "The Misty Mermaid"), especially considering that the only reason she did the part was because her sisters set her up (BTW, she refused several times, but eventually relented when she realized her sisters needed help in regards to it). Also, the only reason she agreed to wear the outfit in "Cerulean Blues" was to try and calm down Gyarados. that's FAR Different compared to something like... Oh, I don't know, May's clear enjoyment of stripping on the beach, or Kanako Urashima's complete gladness of stripping (and even doing it in front of her brother at one point.

:::As for what Dawn did that was scandalous, she dressed up as a French Maid (which was a common Japanese Fetish), among other things.[[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 18:46, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Main series games only--[[User:Kuki|Kuki]][[User talk:Kuki|Talk]] 23:53, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

::::Dude, who ''doesn't'' enjoy going to the beach? Besides, is May supposed to wear her regular clothes and GO SWIMMING? And don't forget, Ash wore those clothes too. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 00:56, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

:::::I was referring to the swimsuit contest, since THAT was what you referenced. Also, yes, it's a bit impractical for her to wear her regular clothes and go swimming at the same time, but that doesn't mean she should have stripped in a strip-tease fashion, with her brother practically begging for her to stop doing it, and both he and ash being embarrassed. It's not the question of whether they enjoy going to the beach or not, it's whether they enjoying causing a scandal or not. If you try to disrupt this one more time, I WILL end up being forced to post Love Hina Pics to try and prove what exactly I meant by Fanserviced girls enjoying doing scandalous things. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 01:18, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

::::::I've come to realize that that's what anime does. They're basically all the same. They make the girls into fanservice. Look at YuGiOh GX. The guys wear respectable uniforms while the girls trot around in mini skirts with huge breasts. Come to think of it, Pokémon is being pretty lenient when it comes to fanservice compared to other animes. Not all of the girls have huge breasts unless they are older women (Lorelei and Prof. Ivy). --[[Special:Contributions/Kenji-girl|☆]][[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 01:23, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

::::::: May also has the racks as well, which, along with the other things, makes me want to stop it. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 01:29, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

::::::::Pffsst. You call that a rack? I don't get why people think May's boobs are big. That's just my opinion. --[[Special:Contributions/Kenji-girl|☆]][[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 01:32, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

:::::::::Maybe they aren't as big as Prima's, but they are definitely far too large for her age. I mean, ask her side profile pictures if you don't believe me. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 01:33, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Love Hina pics? If I was more of the male Internet user stereotype, I'd jump for joy at the prospect, but at least someone else might garner "enjoyment" out of them. In the meantime, I'll prepare for the event by giving you a picture of Slave Leia (from Star Wars Episode VI) as soon as I'm back on Bulbagarden forums, because obviously it is not fanservice because she obviously did not enjoy it and it did serve a more meaningful purpose than showing off Carrie Fisher's sweet bod.

Crikey, you make such a big deal out of the "stripping" scene. If anything, it was Max's fault for suggesting that it was striptease in the first place, because, oh, maybe changing into swimsuits on the beach is normal? Besides, American cartoons are arguably worse with these kind of jokes, because several episodes have little boys running around naked (Dexter's Laboratory and The Fairly OddParents, as examples). And yes, controversy over children's TV shows have been done to death already in North America, so I guess you're out of a job when it comes to American cartoons. And I suspect (directed at Kenji-girl) that people think May's boobs are big because this is the Internet, where everything is blown out of proportion.

I laughed at your claim that Dawn dressing up as a French maid was scandalous. Okay, so Ash also dressing up as a maid is not scandalous? What about Ash's recent Tarzan outfit (check Bulbagarden's Ash Club for details)? Or are you being sexist against males by suggesting they can't be hot too? --[[User:PsychoRobo|PsychoRobo]] 15:31, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

:Look, I don't enjoy those things anymore than you do. I used that as a way to try and stop you from doing that (mocking me).

:Also, everyone else made a big deal out of the striptease as well! And anyways, blame the writers as well, since they set it up as a striptease as well. And also blame Ash for looking embarrased about what he just saw. and anyways, MOST people wear an undershirt when they go to the beach. They DON'T, however, go to the beach in their regular clothes and take them off in front of everyone. also, I barely even WATCH Fairly OddParents (as a matter of fact, my parents, as well as I, avoided that show like the plague for the same reasons they mostly avoid the Simpsons.), and while I used to watch Dexters Laboratory, I started to hate it when they did that musical episode.

:and another thing, an entire THREAD was made in regards to how Pokemon was becoming more fetishish and used Dawn's Cheerleader and Maid costumes as an example. I'll eliminate every single sexist action on this planet, male and female alike. Besides, how can I be sexist with my own gender? By being sexist towards males, I'm being sexist towards myself. And anyways, Ash didn't even WANT to wear the Maids outfit, as you can tell by his blushing out of humiliation.

:I have warned you that if you don't stop mocking me, I WILL be forced to post those pics if it stops you. And I will act on it, even though I feel as though this is a mistake. I have hated these pics, but they prove my point as to how degrading fanservice is, and most importantly, how the characters in question actually DO enjoy causing this scandal. You have brought this upon yourself...
:However, I'll be a bit merciful and delay it until I successfully upload the first part of my video, which, as soon as I download Version 12 of Pinnacle, shouldn't take too long, since the Images in question are ON this video. HOWEVER, that doesn't mean you are allowed to mock me. I mean, think of it this way, if your parents, or your friends (real life friends, I mean), mentioned their dislike of May OR Dawn, would you act the very same way towards them that you act towards me? If the answer is no, take that into account before you try to mock me again.

:[[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 16:17, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
::And that entire sexism thread lost all credibility after its first response, when Blackjack Palazzo claimed she wished to see more male fanservice. And there was another girl that said it was mostly males that argue over this kind of thing, and the girls don't see much of a problem. So much for feminism, eh? Plus, I don't know many males who would willingly cross-dress, besides characters like Harley, James, and Bugs Bunny. Ash's unwillingness to wear it is thus irrelevant. I also don't know what a musical episode of Dexter's Laboratory has to do with the discussion. Please stop throwing non sequiturs around if you wish to be taken seriously.

::Oh, you're being merciful? Well, that's just a bit more time to postpone posting Slave Leia pics on your account, then. Anyways, who said I didn't enjoy fanservice? It's so fun to mock.

::As for your last question, of course I would still act the same way towards you. Why should I let other people control the way I think? A lot of people don't like Pokemon in my school, so your "peer pressure" argument barely fazes me. Oh, wait, you're jealous, aren't you? You're jealous because I scored with the same Serebii mod that banned you. You can't believe that I could get on her good side while you ended up becoming the laughingstock of Serebii's idiot hunters, and that's why you put the "real life friends" part. Well, maybe if you weren't trying to usurp her position by judging everyone on the forum with your "holier-than-thou" attitude (kind of like Lisa Simpson), then maybe you wouldn't be in the position you are now! P.S. This is becoming increasingly irrelevant to Bulbapedia editing. If you wish to continue, put this on my Bulbagarden or Pokecommunity account (MetaRobo/PorygonSquared, respectively). [[User:PsychoRobo|PsychoRobo]] 16:48, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

== Linking to other wikis ==

When linking to other wikis, please remeber to use {{ }} around the link, not [[ ]]

Thanks. ♪♪[[User:ShinyPachirisu|Shiny]] [[User Talk:ShinyPachirisu|Pachirisu]] :) ♪♪ 00:38, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

== Let me explain something to you ==

Just because I said that it doesn't only apply to Misty doesn't mean you can go and put it on May and Dawn's pages.

The reason we have a page on SOVA, despite being a fan thing, is because it was a big deal. This isn't so much a big deal that caused fans to write hundreds of letters. Infact I doubt that many people even know about it.

We already mention what he said on [[Masamitsu Hidaka|his page]] and how some fans find it offensive. We don't need to affiliate the character with it as well. Yes it was a shitty thing to say but we don't need to be reminded of it everytime we visit Misty, May, or Dawn's pages. --[[Special:Contributions/Kenji-girl|☆]][[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 11:35, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

::Fine, I won't edit the pages, and I'm also sorry for my response on your talk page, while I'm at it. However, I'm only stopping because Hidaka's page already mentioned it. and anyways, as far as I'm concerned, if it doesn't apply to just one person involved, it applies to ALL people involved. So, next time you say something like that, try it in a way that I can understand. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 11:40, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

== Arceus/Mew dispute ==

I've put up a full explanation at [[Talk:Arceus (Pokémon)#Arceus vs. Mew]]. I don't mean to sound so aggressive, but there truly is no real basis for considering Mew the first. At best, it should be mentioned that the fan community considered it the first, but that was always fanon and never what the games actually claimed.

Again, sorry if I've offended you.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 06:32, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

:I also posted my response on that discussion. And also, Porygon MAY have been made later, but then, if it can't be a descendant of Mew, then HOW can Mew be able to transform into it? I mean, they HAD to have used some form of Mew's DNA in order for it to be able to transform into it and it's family (Besides, they used Mew's DNA to create Mewtwo, who's to say they used ALL of the Mew DNA to transform into it? Besides, the pokedex entries hint that the reason why Mewtwo is savage and aggressive is because they repeatedly spliced Mewtwo's DNA, so I'm guessing they may have used his DNA in Grimer/Muk, Castform, and, yes, even the Porygon Family, so in a sense, they are Mewtwo's Children, and thus, in a sense, Mew's Grandchildren. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 11:00, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
:::Replied on the talk page. As for your comment here, I'm sorry, but it is completely ignorant of any concept of genetics, especially the actual concept of [[wikipedia:RNA splicing|genetic splicing]] and what DNA ''does'', as well as the actual text of Porygon's Pokedex entries, and the in-game description of how {{m|Transform}} works.

:::Let me illustrate your basic misunderstanding - a child typically has distinct DNA from two sources ( a mother and a father). You may not know this, but the mother and father generally have ''completely'' distinct lineages, and share almost no DNA that all humans don't share - to put it simply, the mother and father are generally not brother and sister, or anything close.
:::Now, because of this, the child will have DNA from the mother ''and'' father. What you are claiming is analogous to saying that the child's father should be able to turn into the child's mother, because the child, his descendant, has DNA from his mother. But this is utter hogwash, and immediately recognizable as lunatic raving. The very use of sexual reproduction in macro-evolution is that it introduces '''''NEW''''' genes into the gene pool.
:::If transformation were inherent in the species ''at all'', it would be obvious to even the casual observer that it would be the ''child'' who could be expected to be able to transform into both the father or mother, ''as his very nature'' is to be a collection of both of their DNA.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 05:57, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
::::Okay, first off - you don't get to make ultimatums, that's not how a wiki works. Second off, where in the ''hell'' does the D/P Pokedex say that Mew is "believed to be the originator of all Pokémon", thought to "possibly contain the genetic code of every other Pokémon", or able to "learn every TM/HM"? Finally, how could "Arceus being the original one" and "Mew creating ''ALL'' Pokemon" ever be reconciled? They're necessarily contradictory!
::::However, to try and compromise with you ''without'' making up fanfiction and being dishonest about the Pokedex, I rewrote the section you keep adding without having removed it. Is this acceptable?[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 03:44, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::Fine, I thank you for at least keeping the gist of it. BTW, I wasn't lying about the Pokédex entry. As a matter of fact, I have copied and pasted Mew's D/P Dex entry from his article just for you to see it. here it is:
:::::'''''''Because it can use all kinds of moves, many scientists believe Mew to be the ancestor of Pokémon. '''''''
:::::And to further prove that I'm not lying, I ALSO am going to post a link:
:::::Bulbapedia.Bulbagarden.net/wiki/Mew_(Pokémon)#Pokédex_entries.
:::::Next time you try to accuse me of lying about it, read Mew's D/P pokedex entry first, since it still said that Mew was believed to be the ancestor of pokémon (the fact it said pokémon made it seem like it said all pokémon.).
:::::Also, I tried to reason with you multiple times, but you insisted that it shouldn't be in there, despite the fact that the Dex actually stated it, so I was forced to take drastic measures.
:::::[[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 10:33, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
::::::YEs, you ''were'' incorrect about the Pokedex entry - you claimed it specifically said those things, and ''it did not''. '''Those''' were the points in contention, and you keep trying to avoid them. The Dex does '''not''' "actually say it", so you're claim that I forced you to keep trying to pass off your speculation as fact is incorrect.
*Specifically:
#The DP pokedex entry says '''nothing''' about TMs/HMs.
#The DP pokedex entry says '''nothing''' about genetics.
#The DP pokedex entry says '''nothing''' about "''originating'' '''all''' Pokemon".[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 01:05, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
::Do I LOOK Like I care what the DP pokedex says?! I only care for what ALL of them said. And ANOTHER thing, they may have not explicitly mentioned "TMs/HMs", but the mere fact that Mew's DP pokédex entry said that it can use ''All kinds of moves'' implies that it can learn TMs and HMs as well, as well as natural, move tutors, and even moves only available from Metronome. As for Genetics, The closest thing it came to mentioning Genetics was in SSBB's Trophy, and besides which, the mere fact that it can learn transform (which is stated to be the recombining of DNA into the pokemon that matches that DNA) should be enough to prove it's the Ancestor. And for Originating All Pokemon. SO WHAT? The Pokédex entry ALSO didn't say it originated most, some, few, or even only one Pokemon, either. It just said "Ancestor of All Pokemon", and from what I can tell, especially with how people often interperet thing, if it doens't explicitly mention that it's only most, few, some, or only one pokemon that it is an ancestor of, that means it's the ancestor of All Pokemon. Therefore, Mew stated that it's ancestor of pokemon = ancestor of all pokemon.

::I also forgot to mention one thing. There's a Significant difference between Mew's transforming into a Pokemon and Ditto's Transforming into a pokémon. Ditto can only transform into a pokemon when it sees it [It's also implied that it can't go by memory], whileas with Mew, it's implied thar Mew can transform into any pokemon without necessarily needing to see it at first (as one of the problems with trying to get Mew in Emerald is that it can transform into pokemon, and in the Anime, it's been shown to transform into pokemon that it hasn't had any contact with, or at the very least not any direct contact [eg, Ho-oh, Taillow, etc.].).

::Even IF it's not directly mentioned in the D/P/P Pokedex, we must wait until GSDS comes out (if it comes out) or, assuming that there is one, generation 5 before we say that it's been retconned. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 01:23, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

== Wow! ==

In all the time you've been on Bulbapedia, you haven't made a single contribution to the Userspace! That's quite an accomplishment! --[[User:Politoed666|ニョロトノ]][[User talk:Politoed666|''666'']] 22:22, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
:Userspace? [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 22:37, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
::Its the user page and anything connected with it except talk pages. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[User:Jmath/Sandbox|'''th''']] 22:41, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
::Oh, that. See, it's in red spacing, and I'm not completely sure if I can create one. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 22:42, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
:::O.O You don't have to create a page... ♪♪[[User:ShinyPachirisu|Shiny]] [[User Talk:ShinyPachirisu|Pachirisu]] :) ♪♪ 22:44, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
==Legendary Genders==
it said none because Legendary's dont have genders! [[User:Mooites|Mooites]] 01:55, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
:Only in the games, though. Maybe you've forgotten, but a Baby Lugia DID appear in the show. If they didn't have genders, please explain how Silver even exists?! Heck, most of the legendaries had multiples in the anime, and if they don't have genders, how can they have multiple species at the same time? [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 02:16, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
::Asexual Reproduction? They are hermaphrodites? There's more methods of reproduction than male/female sexual reproduction, you know. [[User:PsychoRobo|PsychoRobo]] 22:11, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
::good point. [[User:Mooites|Mooites]] 02:19, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
:::Mooites, this is directed at PsychoRobo, so don't think it seems like i'm lecturing you. PsychoRobo, ONE. Next time you have to respond to my usertalk, or any talk page for that matter, place it AFTER the recent poster. TWO. Asexual Reproduction requires budding, for the most part. THREE, Hermaphrodites change genders (meaning, they change from female to male just to reproduce. So, in one sense, the Marril family are hermaphrodites.), so they would still need to mate in order to reproduce the same effect. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 22:35, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
::::First, to respond to three. The topic was whether legendaries had genders or not. Just because they need to mate doesn't mean they have defined genders. And to two, budding is not the only form of asexual reproduction. In fact, many creatures such as starfish and especially plants can reproduce with a fragment of the parent. [[User:PsychoRobo|PsychoRobo]] 00:06, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::I think Budding involves the separation of the original host, so Starfish actually DO bud to reproduce. Also, Plants technically require pollination in order to reproduce (the stigma is the male plant, the phyla is the female, the pollen goes to another plant, they make eggs known as seeds, get my drift?), so technically, it's not asexual reproduction. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 00:10, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
::::::Plants can regenerate asexually with one of their body parts removed, though. It's not their main option, but it is an option. [[User:PsychoRobo|PsychoRobo]] 14:51, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

== Edits ==

Please stop doing it. We can discuss it on the talk page. Just no more edits. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[User:Jmath/Sandbox|'''th''']] 22:07, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

:Fine, But the thing still stands. Now, if you want to add a footnote that this happened before the release of Platinum on the edits page (or request me to do so), fine, because that way, we'll have middle ground. I can say it's technically a out of order defeat, and you can say that it was before Platinum was released. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 22:11, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
::Anyway, where did you get that the order is changed? It isn't anywhere else here. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[User:Jmath/Sandbox|'''th''']] 22:13, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
:::Tv.com. The Platinum release thread. Specifically:

:::"Hearthome Gym is now the Third gym, Veilstone is the Fourth, and Pastoria is the Fifth

:::How dumb is it for Fantina not to have Drifblim. Her dress is best on it, and her gym in the anime was. "

:::"Oh, I didn't even notice the Gym order switch!

:::Yay, in Diamond and Pearl Fantina uses Drifblim in Super Contests, and since her dress is based on one I guess they'll let her keep that Driflblim. Now while the Drifblim/Duskull switch is odd, why in the world did they replace her Gengar with a Haunter? Just becuase she's no longer the fifth Gym they downgraded her Pokemon?

:::Though I do agree with the evolving of Gardenia's Cherubi into a Cherrim, hopefully Dawn will get one in the anime."

:::The Quotes were from SPDShadowRanger and Pikachu315111, respectively

:::[[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 22:23, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Are you sure what's written there can be taken as fact? How can some guy know that when the game hasn't even been released yet. Even Bulbapedia is not mentioning it. At least edit it when the game's released. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[User:Jmath/Sandbox|'''th''']] 22:26, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

:Considering how even Serebii (The webmaster, not the pokemon) is playing through Platinum as we speak, I'd say it already HAS been released. If serebii updated the site to include the changes in Roark's pokemon/Puzzle, It can be fairly certain that these others have played the game. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 22:30, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
::Then what is September 13 for? Some guys get special privileges? [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[User:Jmath/Sandbox|'''th''']] 22:34, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
:::I just changed the release date, and mentioned why in it's talk page. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 22:35, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

If you could make the footnote for that trivia, go ahead. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[User:Jmath/Sandbox|'''th''']] 22:41, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

== Style ==

Please read the {{bp|manual of style}} and familiarize yourself with English grammar before you edit too much more. Your recent edits to [[legendary birds]] spelled Pokémon as pokemon, used "it's", among as possessive, and has weird capitals all over the place, among other errors. --[[User:Martonimos|Martonimos]][[User talk:Martonimos|((Argh]]|[[Special:Contributions/Martonimos|Blargh))]] 20:57, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

== Delete? ==

Do you want your user page deleted?Can I put the tag on it? another user generously made one for you--[[User:DCM|DCM]][[User talk:DCM|((Nag at Me!]][[Special:Contributions/DCM|Edits))]]

== Speculation ==

Please don't put speculation in main articles; just put it on the talk page. [[User:Dialgarules|Dialgarules]] 01:30, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
:I'm sorry, but you ''really'' have to make sense on this site. You put Poké-ball when it SAYS IN THE WELCOME THINGY to say '''Poké [space] Ball!''' When you say that Meowth "prefers to walk around" it could mean a lot of things. You could say that it likes to be out of its Poké [space] Ball. How about you take a quick look at [[Bulbapedia:Manual_of_style|this]]? [[User:Dialgarules|Dialgarules]] 00:39, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

== Pokémon Heroes Subtitles ==

There are such things that are called, oh maybe you've heard of them, ERRORS. I've listened to it several times and it does not sound like "I'm sorry" to me. Sometimes the people making the subtitles mess up. Also the whole Misty catching Totodile thing doesn't float. That's a matter of opinion and making speculations because of the way the balls were thrown. Don't put any of these things on Totodile's page again.--[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 10:52, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
:Ok, but then again, technically, several other things like the Major events section, Trivia, and Errors section technically shouldn't appear in those pages either, since it's kinda speculation in and of itself, no matter how it's worded. Heck, the entirety of Bulbapedia's articles are speculation. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 13:42, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

== Anime abilities ==

Please do not add unconfirmed abilities to anime Pokémon pages. It doesn't matter if the only ability for a {{AP|Totodile}} is {{a|Torrent}}, or if the only ability for a {{AP|Larvitar}} is {{a|Guts}}. Unless it is confirmed in words in the anime, the ability stays as Unknown. The unconfirmed ability removal was started by {{u|Politoed666}} an EB member. - [[User:Kogoro|'''<sc>Kogoro</sc>''']] '''|''' [[User talk:Kogoro|'''<sc>Talk to me</sc>''']] '''|''' 04:34, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
:If that's the case, should we eliminate the majority of Psyduck's wins (or participations in battles in other words?), or heck, Pikachu's Participation in Round 2 of the Saffron Gym battle? I mean, they never explicitly said in the anime "I choose Pikachu"/"Pikachu, GO!" or "Psyduck, I choose you!" those times (if anything, the opposite is true, as with Psyduck, it pops out when she's choosing Staryu, Starmie, or some other pokemon, and Ash tried to tell Pikachu to avoid battling Kadabra.), and thus is the same thing, as far as I'm concerned (I also posted this for Politoed666 on Maverick Nate's talk Page.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 04:57, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
::Then understand what she meant to say and not what she literally said. Psyduck is ''used'' in the anime. Torrent is not. Pikachu is ''used'' in the anime. Guts is not. Abilities that are not mentioned and do not ever appear should not be put on anime pages. [[User:IIMarckus|IIMarckus]] 05:04, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
:::Even IF the ability is the only thing it's got?! I mean, common sense should dictate the fact that, if it's the only ability it can ever have, it is to be included in the abilities section, REGARDLESS if it's stated in the anime or not. Besides, Abilities ARE used as well (they activate under certain conditions). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 05:08, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
::::The anime and games barely match up at the best of times. You might as well be adding “Based on the moves such‐and‐such knows, it is probably between levels 34 and 40” to pages. Nothing suggests that the Totodile in the anime has Torrent. [[User:IIMarckus|IIMarckus]] 05:11, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
:::::On the case of the ability needing to be mentioned in words, how else would an ability be confirmed? Misty's Psyduck popping out of it's Poké Ball and battling is visual, so it's obvious without any words. It's rather hard to not notice the flash of light come from Misty's pack, then Psyduck standing near her. With abilities, it's a little less black & white. Unless someone like Brock says something like "Totodile's using its ability, Torrent!" we're not able to know that it's actually Torrent activating or not. I hope you understand now. - [[User:Kogoro|'''<sc>Kogoro</sc>''']] '''|''' [[User talk:Kogoro|'''<sc>Talk to me</sc>''']] '''|''' 05:41, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

== Grammar ==

The first letter of every sentence is capitalized, and Pokémon is spelled with an é and an uppercase P. You've been here long enough to know that, so you should have gotten it the first time. ''[[User:Maverick Nate|'''Maverick''']][[User talk:Maverick Nate|'''Nate''']]'' 15:45, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

:Please, please starting using better grammar. Stop making so many run-on sentences. And stop capitalizing words that don't need to be like ''dub''. Only capitalize the first word in the sentence, Pokémon names, character names, anything with Poké in front of it, and proper nouns. Also you use ''whileas'' in your sentences A LOT. Whileas is not a word. If you want, but really not needed, put ''while as''. But you really don't need it. Just say ''while''. And don't over use those parenthesis (). You use them way too much. And try not to add these extra words like ''merely'', ''actually'', or ''clearly'' unless absolutely needed. Thank you. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 06:05, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

== Ironically ==

Please don't over user the term 'ironically'. Thanks, --[[User:RexRacer|'''Rex]][[Quilava (Pokémon)|Racer''']] [[User talk:RexRacer|'''''-talk''''']] 15:52, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

== "Focusing" ==

There is a difference between an episode focusing on a particular character, and a particular character supporting them. For episode 232? That is not an episode focusing on Misty. Brock? Yes. Look a little more closely at these roles, then decide who it's focused on. -[[User:Sketch|Sketch]] 21:01, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
:Well, actually it's focused on both. You see, if it wasn't for Misty, Brock would have become the Ninetale's owner's reincarnate, and Ash would have also completely fallen for the deception, and Brock would also have never figured out that the Ninetales in question was just trying to relive it's memories of it's own trainer, so it's also focused upon in there. Now, if you want "supporting", Ash is a good example, He didn't initially think about it being a trick/illusion made by Ninetales, even claiming Misty was paranoid, and only started to believe when Ash saw Brock go through her.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 21:06, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
::Just because Misty figured out what Ninetails was doing doesn't mean it's a Misty focused episode. Stop trying to look for any little thing that makes Misty the focus of the episode. Like 133. Pikachu and Meowth were also the focal points of the episode so why didn't you think of adding Ash and Team Rocket as focuses. Because they are not. The focuses were the Pokémon. Not Misty. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 00:28, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
:::Actually, in regards to EP133, it's because Meowth and Pikachu already have their OWN episode focusing templates, so adding in Jessie James Ash or Team Rocket's episode focusing templates would have been pointless.

:::And anyways, she didn't merely just "Figure it out", she tried to warn Ash and especially Brock for a significant portion of the episode. See, anything a main character does that's significant to the episode as well as focuses on them for the majority of the time is a "episode focused on so-and-so" episode in and of itself, and Contests/Gym Battles and even Captures aren't enough. I mean, Jessie, for instance, won a ribbon in the episode where Ash beat fantina, was this a Jessie-oriented episode? no, because she was barely even focused on [in fact, unless I'm mistaken, which I probably am, i think the contest was actually not even shown until after Ash won the battle] the episode [[EP103|Misty Meets her Match]] was a similar scenario.). Now, if I added in the template for episode 001, then yes, your accusations would be legitimate, correct, and justified.

:::It doesn't matter anyways, as I have already completed the test anyways (Ash:40, Misty:46, maybe Ash:40, Misty:45 now.), and this was actually a test to see if Ash was truly the central character (the central character would usually have most of the entire show focused on him/her. As he didn't exceed Misty, he's not really a central main character.). the only part Misty had in it was to see whether she was actually equal to Ash, or rather, to set a fair comparison between the characters to have it be a fair test (I can't use Brock or Tracey, because that would be a no contest, and thus, an unfair advantage on Ash's part.). I also plan on doing the same thing with Ash and May in regards to AG, and Ash and Dawn in DP as well.

:::On a side note, I also did it to statistically find out which of the girls was actually close to being Ash's equal (I earlier speculated Misty, but I found out that she actually exceeded Ash), and I only did it because I have certain doubts of Dawn actually being equal to Ash (since I researched it, and noticed initially that Misty seemed closer to equality to Ash than May and Dawn were). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 01:08, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
::::Just because Togepi doesn't have a focusing category yet doesn't automatically make Misty the character of focus. News flash, Ash is the main character of the show not Misty. And there is WAY MORE THAN 40 episodes focusing on Ash. As for the female character that is Ash's equal, I believe it's Dawn. For someone who's been in the series for 107 episodes, she sure had a significant amount of episodes focusing on her. Maybe not as much as Misty, but Misty was around for 250 plus episodes. At the rate the show is going, Dawn will probably have more episodes than Misty. I know you might not like to hear that, but it's the truth. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 01:15, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

::::in regards to Togepi, if you are talking about Tanks a lot, it's because Misty pretty much organized the attack among other things. As for your claims that Ash is focused upon more than Misty (and more than 40 episodes), that's not even close to a true statement. I already did the analysis of all the episodes I could, outrightly ignoring those that are completely unknown. Also, Most of the Johto episodes didn't even focus on Ash at all (and also didn't focus on Misty, Brock, OR Team Rocket), Instead, it focused on COTDs with even Ash being nothing more than the Background, so, in all reality, Ash isn't the central character you think he is. If anything, it's you whose being more biased. I was trying to make it as fair as I can. There were even Gym matches that barely even focused on Ash at all, despite his participating in them (Case in point: Misty Meets her Match.) And also, the majority of the captures he made in the Kanto Saga either had him sharing the spotlight (Ash Catches a Pokémon, which not only dealt with Ash's captures, but Character Development from Misty as well, since a significant part of the episode dealt with her trying to cope with Caterpie despite her fear of bug-types/bugs.), or was never even in the spotlight in the first place (Charmander and the Stray Pokemon, as that episode dealt with Brock trying to help Charmander and all that, among other things, and Ash pretty much took Charmander.).

::::And also, I counted the episode listings thus far in regards to Dawn-centric episodes, and out of the 107 episodes thus far, only 20 episodes were actually focused on Dawn (see, in order for it to be a lot for a girl who has been in for 107 episodes, it needs to be, oh... 40 episodes in that range at least.). Misty had more by this time (7 more by the halfway point, and we just went by the halfway point already, as the 12th movie trailer implied that the upcoming 12th movie will be the last DP series movie.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 01:41, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
:::::This is the problem I have with your counting. Obviously there are others who do not agree that characters in certain episodes have "focus". Therefore your "statistics" aren't entirely accurate. You can say that "Oh, this character is the focus in this episode so that gives them this many episodes..." and so forth...that doesn't make it true. -[[User:Sketch|Sketch]] 01:48, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
::::::Since others seem to not agree amongst themselves, that also means that even THEIR views on what's "Focus" isn't entirely accurate either. And anyways, if that's the case, then Ash never really had much focus in the Leagues, even though those league episodes were listed as episodes focused on him. It's no different. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 01:51, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
:::::::Misty wasn't the one who orginized the plan in Tanks A lot. From what I remember, it was mostly Team Rocket's idea. You give Misty WAY TOO MUCH credit for things. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 02:02, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
::::::::Like how you gave too much credit to Ash or Dawn? you don't seem to be getting this, even without Tanks a Lot, she still had more ACTUAL character-centric episodes than Ash anyhow, and had more character-centric episodes than Dawn, anyways, even by range. And hey, what about the part about Entei at your own risk being a Brock centric episode just because his Foretress evolving, even though there were episodes where a main characters pokemon evolved even though said main character wasn't even the focus of the episode ("March of the Exeggutor Squad" says hi, since the episode was actually a Misty-centric episode by all definitions, and yet Ash's Charmeleon evolved, despite his barely even being out of the background.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 02:17, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Because Ash is the absolute main character of the show. And you only so far counted the original series episodes. What about Advanced and DP? You can't possibly believe Misty has more character focused episodes than Ash. And as for Entie At Your Own Risk, it does automatically a character focused episode when one of their Pokémon evolves. There Pokémon accidentally wondering off doesn't. And you say that its Misty focused because Togepi got inside the tank but refuse to acknowledge Ash and Team Rocket for the very same reason.

Personally, I think your a bit Misty obsessed and are looking for any reason to label Misty the focus of an episode. Please come to the realization that Misty was not the main focus of the series and that Ash was, and still is. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 02:27, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

:No, he ISN'T the absolute main character. Also, I counted the original series episodes because I just wanted to focus on whose the more equal female. And anyways, since you said "Original Series", that's because it's three different series in Japan, meaning, trying to compare is ridiculous beyond belief. I mean, it's like trying to say Ash was more popular than May in the Original series, it's silly. As for the whole thing about evolution=character-focus episode, no it doesn't. In order for it to truly be a character-centric episode, the character in question must have actual focus for more than 50% of the entire episode. As Brock wasn't even focused on for most of the episode, evolution or not, it's not an actual "Brock-centric episode".

:Also, I'm not misty-obsessed (aside from wanting to want her to return and working to make sure i do that, of course.). Believe me, If I WAS truly what you had described me, I would have labeled EP001, and absolutely every single episode Misty was in for that matter [even that brief cameo she had in the Hoenn Conference), as being a Misty-centric episode just because she's in it. And anyways, even if she wasn't, Ash wasn't either. I mean, I could list a few episodes that didn't focus on ANY of the main characters at all, like the majority of the Johto saga (The Xatu episode didn't focus on Ash, the Sunflora Vileplume episode didn't focus on Ash, the the Red Gyarados arc didn't focus on Ash [if it focused on anyone, it was Lance], etc. etc.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 03:02, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

::Yes, he is. Misty and the others are main characters but the anime basically revolves around Ash. ESPECIALLY in the original series in which you keep insisting Misty is the center of the series. What did Misty do? Was it Misty who competed in the Gym Battles? Was it Misty who competed in the Pokémon League? Was it Misty who was deciding where they were heading next? She was basically a character like Brock, Tracey, and Max are. One of Ash's friends who follows him and really doesn't do anything that greatly impacts the direction of the series. This does not mean that they are not important but they are basically behind Ash and are not his equal in anyway. The beginning of the Japanese openings never said "Satoshi, Kasumi, and Takeshi". They always said "Satoshi". It wasn't until the Diamond and Pearl that it was changed to "Satoshi and Hikari". It was the Advanced Generation were they decided to share the main point of the series with another character, May.

::You seem to be misunderstanding what I meant. I didn't mean every single episode is Ash focused. I'm saying that the anime in general is Ash focused.

::To Bulbapedia's standards, an episode in which a main character catches a Pokémon, evolves a Pokémon, or releases a Pokémon is an automatic focus on a particular character. Regardless of what you think.

::Yes, you are indeed Misty obsessed if you believe that she was more important of a character than Ash is. Even I don't say that about Tracey. If Misty was indeed the most important character of the series than why isn't she in it anymore? Why did the producers decide to keep Brock and not her?

::So are you trying to tell me that what ever happened after the original series doesn't matter? That it doesn't matter that Ash continued to be in more episodes after Misty's departure. Get a clue. Ash is the center of the anime followed by Dawn and May then the other characters, which includeds Misty. Of course Team Rocket is up their with May and Dawn as the opposing side to the heroes. You need to except that. Just because Misty has a lot of fans doesn't make her more important in the series than Ash is. You are being way too baised in your decisions. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 03:51, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

:::''Yes, he is. Misty and the others are main characters but the anime basically revolves around Ash. ESPECIALLY in the original series in which you keep insisting Misty is the center of the series. What did Misty do? Was it Misty who competed in the Gym Battles? Was it Misty who competed in the Pokémon League? Was it Misty who was deciding where they were heading next? She was basically a character like Brock, Tracey, and Max are. One of Ash's friends who follows him and really doesn't do anything that greatly impacts the direction of the series. This does not mean that they are not important but they are basically behind Ash and are not his equal in anyway. The beginning of the Japanese openings never said "Satoshi, Kasumi, and Takeshi". They always said "Satoshi". It wasn't until the Diamond and Pearl that it was changed to "Satoshi and Hikari". It was the Advanced Generation were they decided to share the main point of the series with another character, May. ''

:::Actually, she did greatly impact the series, as if it wasn't for her, Ash would have DIED. Since you guys are saying that he IS the Anime, then, if it wasn't for her, the anime would have ended right then and there. Besides, the only time relating to battles where the focus was undeniably on Ash was in the Leagues (The Gyms are debatable, as the Gym episodes seemed to focus more on the characters appearing than on Ash himself, or in the case of the Rudy Gym Episode, focused almost exclusively on Misty.). Besides, the point of the poll was how much screentime she really got compared to the Girls, and to be honest, I wasn't even anticipating the results to be as high as it was.

:::''You seem to be misunderstanding what I meant. I didn't mean every single episode is Ash focused. I'm saying that the anime in general is Ash focused.''

:::You said he was the "Absolute" main character, which, according to Webster, means everything. which, taking that definition into account, would imply that Absolutely every millisecond of every episode would be focused on Ash, which it really wasn't.

:::''To Bulbapedia's standards, an episode in which a main character catches a Pokémon, evolves a Pokémon, or releases a Pokémon is an automatic focus on a particular character. Regardless of what you think.''

:::Regardless if the episode focused 90% more on a Main Character other than Ash and Ash himself got only 10% when the capture/evolution/release episode was made (Like in the Charmander episode, even though Ash caught Charmander, it was more focused on Brock, as he was the one who reacted first to Damian's neglect, he's the one who cared for Charmander the most, he was the one who got extremely worried about Charmander when it left upon recovery to try and reunite with Damian. All Ash did throughout the episode was capture it [and, according to Brock, checked it's tail.].). That's crazy! I mean, Misty caught Psyduck, and I'll be the first to admit that the episode of it's capture barely even focused on her. If it even focused on anyone, it was Officer Jenny and Nurse Joy, which was a major reason as to why I didn't even include it.

:::''Yes, you are indeed Misty obsessed if you believe that she was more important of a character than Ash is. Even I don't say that about Tracey. If Misty was indeed the most important character of the series than why isn't she in it anymore? Why did the producers decide to keep Brock and not her?

:::Actually, I wasn't even thinking Misty was more important than Ash when I did this test. I just was doing it to measure the amount of character centric episodes Misty got in comparison to Ash (As well as the females in comparison to Ash as a whole.). heck, to be honest, I didn't even anticipate that Misty would get more episodes than Ash (The least I could predict was probably Misty: 45% Ash: 65%, if not 50/50.). The only reason why I had gotten the results to be 40:46 for Ash and Misty was because I didn't realize that someone had already listed the Johto Conference episodes as being Ash centric. Besides, if I was truly that which you described me as, I would have posted every single episodes that Misty ever appeared in as being a "Misty Centric" episode just because she appeared (Which I didn't and I actually gave reasons for why the episodes were focused on Misty or Ash.).

:::''So are you trying to tell me that what ever happened after the original series doesn't matter? That it doesn't matter that Ash continued to be in more episodes after Misty's departure. Get a clue. Ash is the center of the anime followed by Dawn and May then the other characters, which includeds Misty. Of course Team Rocket is up their with May and Dawn as the opposing side to the heroes. You need to except that. Just because Misty has a lot of fans doesn't make her more important in the series than Ash is. You are being way too baised in your decisions.''

:::No I wasn't. And anyways, if Ash was truly the center of the show as you claim, please explain to me why the writers actually considered replacing Ash twice. You know exactly what I mean, the special Raikou: The Legend of Thunder was released midway through Johto, where Ash wasn't even in that special, period, much less the Main Character, and some fans even stated that the special was a prototype for a series that wouldn't have involved Ash at all. Later, they revealed a Poster advertizing for a DP anime that had Dawn, Dawn, and Dawn alone on it, absolutely no sign of Ash on it, period. Some of the fanbase thought they were actually replacing Ash for the series because of that (and Dogasu even admitted that the reasoning behind the belief was legitimate). Now granted, they decided to keep Ash on, but the mere fact that they even thought of that special and making that Poster in that way implies that the writers felt that even Ash was expendable, which implies that, even back in the original series, Ash wasn't the star of the show (The writers wouldn't even THINK of doing the Raikou special if they felt that Ash was truly the star of the show.). So who's being more biased now? [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 14:28, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

You know Weedle, Ash IS the main character of the show. That doesn't mean he has to get the focus in ''every'' episode. It's on his goals that the anime revolves around not on any other characters. Its been like that since the beginning of the series. Ash always seems to be there when everyone else isn't. And the part about Misty saving Ash, do you really think a main character would '''die'''? That's never going to happen. Sure they may be life-threatening moments but they would never ''die''.

Naruto is a perfect example of being the main character but not given the focus in every episode. Its just like that with Ash. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 15:38, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
:I really don't think your experiment should have been done in the mainspace--[[User:RexRacer|'''Rex]][[Quilava (Pokémon)|Racer''']] [[User talk:RexRacer|'''''-talk''''']] 15:53, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

:Technically, he did die, twice. In the episode "The Tower of Terror", Haunter took Ash and Pikachu's souls out of their bodies after they caused the Chandelier to fall on them. The second time was in the first movie, where, after Ash got in the way of Mewtwo and Mew's attack, he turned to stone, couldn't awaken, and the only reason he was even alive now was because of the tears and he was, both clinically and truly, up to the point of the tears, dead. So, yes, they did "Kill" Ash.

:Anyways, not focusing on him is one thing, as there were plenty of episodes in the original series (a bit too much if you really think about it, even WITHOUT Misty), that didn't actually focus on him. No, my point was they not only were he was '''not''' focused upon in the ''[[The Legend of Thunder]]'' special, but he didn't even appear in it, period. A similar thing happened when they revealed that they had plans of making a DP Anime. They unveiled a poster of it, and the way they unveiled Dawn for the first time ever made it seem as though she was not only replacing Ash, but that Ash was NOT going to be appearing in the anime. That's my point. I mean, think about it, Even IF the writers didn't give Ash the focus in every single episode, if they felt that Ash was the Be-all-end-all of the show, why would they do [[The Legend of Thunder|a special]] that didn't even have a cameo from Ash, or a Promotional Poster for DP that focused on Dawn alone, and made it seem as though Ash was going to leave the Anime, and Dawn would take up the mantle of the star of the show. I mean, in the DP poster's case, it was one of the biggest discussions at the time. Those, to me, implied that the writers viewed even Ash as expendable.

:As for that comment for RexRacer, care to suggest where else I could put this experiment then? [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 16:02, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
::Sure at the time of the poster, people may have thought Ash was going to be replaced but the writers never specifically stated it. They may have been referencing the fact that a new girl is going to play a important role in the anime not as in being the only one. And Ash could not be in the Raikou special since he was at Hoenn at the time and the special happened in Johto. And you can't say from one incident that Ash is expendable. Again, I state the example of Naruto. There have been episodes in which he hasn't appeared at all.

Sure Ash may have kinda "died" but he always came back almost immediately instead of staying dead. Which means a ''lot''. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 16:14, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

:No, The Raikou Special actually took place (And AIRED in Japan, don't bring Chronicles into it) between Hatching a Plan, and Dues and Don'ts. And it wasn't a chronicles episode (Heck, Pokemon Hoso hadn't even been aired yet.). They even referenced several parts involving the special in the Johto League when Ash fought Jackson/Vincent.). As for referencing a new girl, They had a poster showing a new character named May and they had Ash with her as well when it was first unveiled, so that cannot be it.

:As for Naruto, were these main episodes, or were these episodes from a spinoff series similar to Hoso/Chronicles? [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 16:31, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
::Okay whatever. That doesn't mean that one special is enough to disprove Ash's status. The characters of the special hasn't been given a major appearance ever since then except Vincent but he appeared for one episode anyway. And for the poster thing, Dawn is kinda more important than May was. In all the DP movies, she is given equal importance with Ash unlike May who was only given importance in '''1''' movie.

::And the Naruto episodes were the main ones. I don't know if there were spinoffs but it doesn't matter. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 16:43, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

:::I think that a member of BMGf by the name of Rhyperior pointed out that it was Ash who saved Alamos/The world in Movie 10, and that Dawn ultimately took the back seat, anyways (The only remotely important thing that she did within the movie was save Ash) as it was Ash who told Pikachu and Pachirisu to reactivate the device, according to him, thus saving the world/Alamos, and he also scolded Palkia. Also, in the Shaymin Movie, other than the fact that she and brock tried to stop the Glacier (which even then, they weren't even the ones who actually stopped it, it was Regigigas), she didn't really do much. I mean, did she pair up with Ash and the two of them together, along with Shaymin, Muten, and Giratina, utterly defeat Zero? No, Ash was the one who ended up stopping him once and for all. So, in actuality, she actually had the same role May did, meaning she never was important to begin with. And, arguably, May wasn't given any importance in any movies, considering the fact that the climax of the 9th movie had her act like a total coward and didn't even attempt to save Manaphy (Instead, it was Ash who ended up saving the day, as usual.). So, in any case, I still say that Ash was expendable, as the character didn't appear, and the special, according to many, was a test to see what Audiences would feel, which implies that they had plans to replace Ash. Plus, the Poster, not to mention. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 16:58, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
::::Ash and Dawn were both on the tower activating the music device not Ash alone. It wasn't just Ash's Pikachu but Dawn's Pachirisu that also helped in it. In the Giratina movie, both Ash ''and'' Dawn went to the Reverse World not just Ash alone. She interacted with Shaymin almost as much as Ash. And how could you say May wasn't given any importance in the 9th movie? Its not about how she acted. A main plot point in the movie was May interacting with Manaphy and treating it like its mother. Whatever she did in the movie near the end doesn't matter since their relationship was shown for a major portion of the movie.

::::And like I said before, the writers haven't made any move to remove Ash from the story. The special is a seperate entity with its characters almost never appearing again in the anime. They may have looked to have tried a few attempts to remove him but the fact that they keep bringing Ash back show that he IS important. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 17:46, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
:::::Sigh, look, if you want to mention this to anyone, tell it to Rhyperior, assuming you are also a member of BMGf, all I did was just quote him. As for the part about the Reverse World, I know they both were in the Reverse world in the first visit, but during the second visit, it was Ash, and Ash alone who defeated Zero once and for all (Dawn was stuck trying to stop the glacier that, in the end, only Regigigas was able to stop, remember?). I mean, the summary of that movie even stated this.

:::::As for your point as to how she raised and interacted with Manaphy in the movie, if the same deal with Misty interacting with Togepi wasn't even considered even remotely important despite some episodes focusing on Togepi, then, Titular pokemon or not, her interacting with Manaphy isn't important either.

:::::As for thinking he's important, so what, Brock stays on the show for barely as long as Ash has, and he's not even as important as him, so Episode lengths aren't a detemining factor. And anyways, in order for someone to be a central character, not only do they NOT replace the character, they also are unable to even think about replacing it (Which, at least twice, they did think of replacing him.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 17:58, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Ash hasn't been replaced in the main anime. That's what matters not some random special. The anime is more important than the Chronicles or the raikou special. Its even more imortant than the movies. I know Brock has been there for a good portion of the series but he doesn't do that much anyway. This is Ash's story not anyone else's since he is in every episode.

Misty has interacted with Togepi to what extent in the movies? She practically just holds it for a major portion of the movies. May did a ''lot'' with Manaphy. It also helps that Manaphy is the titular Pokémon for the movie.

:Let's see, she fed it, she discovered some of it's metronome abilities, had it fight against Pikachu at one point, heck, her Togepi was also integral to defeating Colonel Hanson and reclaiming the Togepi Paradise. Besides, if we want to get technical, what did May ''actually'' do with it. She also, for the most part, held it, and heck, when it got kidnapped, what did she do? just stand there!

:They may not have done it, but they have certainly thought about it. I mean sure, they didn't replace him, but the point was they thought about replacing him. And anyways, considering how they referred to that special in the main series, anyways, it's a main series episode in and of itself. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 18:21, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
::I am talking about the movies. Misty hasn't done anything with Togepi in a movie. Sure Togepi has had its share of screentime in the anime but only in a few episodes. Out of the entire Johto season, Togepi might have had only less than 10 episodes that truly concentrate on it. It did ''nothing'' for the rest.

::And as long as Ash isn't replaced and keep appearing in every episode, he is the main character. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 18:28, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
Just so you guys know, the fact that this conversation is taking place is hilarious. I don’t even see why we have these categories that are almost solely based on opinion; it’s not as if we don’t have enough categories already (over two ''thousand''). [[User:IIMarckus|IIMarckus]] 19:08, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
:Well, in the Movies case, I can name one thing it did. It was implied that Togepi was the one who freed Zapdos and Moltres, as we saw it doing that "metronome" arm wave thing when Tracey told everyone to get down in regards to the whole Fire, Water, and Electricity combinations = an explosion. (In case you don't recall that scene, it's because 4Kids cut the scene out when they localized the film.). Besides, what did May do with Manaphy, anyways? I mean, she didn't battle with it (which is what the fanbase thinks of when they say "doing anything" in regards to a character.). And even IF Ash is the main character, the template already listed Brock, Misty, May, Dawn, and even the likes of Tracey, Max, and Todd as main characters, so either way, he's not THE main character (He's only A main character.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 20:55, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
::Again I state, as long as Ash keeps appearing in every episode in the main anime, he is the main character. Once he gets replaced, at least for a few episodes, then I will agree with you. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 08:17, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

== The reason ==

The reason why Brock, Tracey, and Misty had information about them getting replaced is because a staff member from the show actually explained the situation. The Dawn replacing Ash thing is all fan speculation and no one from the show EVER said that they were considering replacing Ash. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 21:52, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
:So What?! The GSDS article was still fan speculation in and of itself, and yet you freely chose to keep it on despite that. Heck, the whole Misty issue was actually placed into Misty's article BEFORE Masamitsu Hidaka's revalation. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 21:58, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

== Edit War ==

Thank goodness you guys somehow resolved it...under normal circumstances, you both would be blocked, depending on the amount of edits against...keep that in mind next time... [[User:Ht14|''ht'']][[User talk:Ht14|''14'']] 14:02, 25 December 2008 (UTC)
:I was just trying to put that out due to the fact that the circumstances of whether capturing them was the cause of the events of the second movie or if it was just territorial disputes (since the film implied that both were the cause.), and besides which, none of the Other times a Legendary bird was captured did a weather anamoly occur, which I pointed out with the events of Jack Walker capturing that Zapdos and riding it, as well as the fact that, other than the lake being almost a biological hazard, it's near-death didn't impact the weather. Jmath had to insist that they controlled the weather just because Lawrence III set the chain of events in motion (Even though Zapdos explicitly told Pikachu that it was conquering Fire Island, which definitely implied that Territorial disputes were a main cause of the events.) {{Unsigned|Weedle Mchairybug}}
::It doesn't matter. We resolved it. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 14:13, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

== Pokémon ==

Pokémon is not spelled "pokemon", it's "Pokémon". [[User:Chocolate|Chocolate]] ([[User talk:Chocolate|Chat with Me]]) 23:58, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
:I'm not sure if you should changed Haunter, but if you were to do it, you msut remember to chang it on Ash's page to be consistence.--[[Bulbapedia:Project Custom Sprite|☆]][[User:Tavisource|Tavis]][[User talk:Tavisource|ource]] 00:09, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

== Your trivia ==

The fact that multiple admins have reverted your edits to High Touch should be an indication that it is not needed. Please stop adding the information, as it is not relevant to anything. --[[User:PAK Man|PAK Man]] [[User talk:PAK Man|Talk]] 22:14, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

== That trivia ==

Let's put it this way...Take a small 5-6 year old kid. Ask him/her to do some advanced mathematics. Do you really expect the kid to suddenly do it. He just won't understand what you're saying to him. Does that make him disobedient??? Same with Psyduck. I don't remember any time where Psyduck actually battled with any determination to win. Its just basically clueless and once it gets a headache, it just releases its power. Chimchar also doesn't fall in the disobedient category. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 14:54, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
:It's disobedient, no matter whether it's intentional or not. Besides, if you want to get technical, Chimchar, during the events of ''[[DP081|Chim-Charred]]'', was very similar to Psyduck, and yet is also listed in it's trivia section as being the second fire type belonging to Ash that disobeyed him (and fourth of Ash's Pokemon overall to disobey him), the first being Charizard. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 15:46, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
::It's not disobedient because of ignorance, it's disobedient because of stupidity. That's different. -[[User:Sketch|Sketch]] 15:49, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
:::Were you talking to me or to Jmath? BTW, were you for the part of relocating of that trivia to it's own bit? Because it was still disobediance, therefore, Dawn's only the second main character other than Ash to have a disobedient pokemon, regardless of whether it's clueless or deliberate. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 15:51, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
::::I know I'm just getting involved because of RC watching, but my two cents is--who cares? Will this "(Character) is the (n)th person shown to have a Pokémon, in this case (whoever), disobey" format continue for ALL disobedient Pokés? If so, that seems...kinda unnecessary. -- '''[[User:evkl|evkl]]''' [[User_talk:evkl|(need to talk?)]] 15:57, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
:::::Well, I guess you might as well remove most of those things in Dawn's Trivia section, since almost half of it just compares her to some characters. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 16:03, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Read my first post. Its NOT disobedient. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 20:46, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
:Look, Obedience means following orders. It doesn't matter if the character is rebellious or just plan clueless, if they don't follow orders, they're disobedient. it's that simple. It's a moot point anyways, since Kenji-girl, one of the high ranking members of the site, has already stated that, whether he was intending to be disobedient or not, it still counted as a disobedient pokemon, and therefore, Dawn's only the second main character aside from Ash to own a Disobedient pokemon. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 20:54, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
::Could you blame a child for being disobedient for not knowing advanced mathematics??? Then why don't people punish them or something? [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 22:58, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
:::When did Ash actually punish Charizard? when did Dawn actually punish her Mamoswine? I don't recall them actually punishing their pokemon. In fact, the only character whom I would say actually punishes pokemon would be Paul. And anyways, no matter how hard you argue, unless you have another mod on your side, it's already written that Misty already owned a disobedient pokemon before Dawn ever appeared on the show (and considering how, like you, she also thought I obssess about Misty, that's saying quite a lot.) [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 23:04, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
::::Sure...Its real smart to punish powerhouses like Mamoswine and Charizard. They are going to eat you alive! And you still haven't answered my question. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 23:08, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
:::::Mamoswine is a vegetarian, so it can't eat dawn even if it wanted to (It's based off of the Wooly Mammoth, a herbivore.). You do have a good point on Charizard, though, though then again, Paul was known to punish any of his most powerful pokemon (I mean, he probably was going to do something bad to his Torterra when found oud it was teaching Ash's Grotle how to improve itself.). Anyways, I thought that question about Charizard and Mamoswine WAS my answer. either way, please stop, as Kenji-Girl had already agreed with me about the entire thing about Misty being the first main character other than Ash to own a disobedient pokemon. If you have a problem with it, take it to her. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 23:19, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

I looked up "disobedience" and it means '''willful''' refusal to follow orders. Chimchar and Psyduck both don't fall in this category. That proves your point wrong. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 23:23, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
:even still, she still agreed with me, as, willful or not, it still didn't follow orders. Again, I suggest you take the complaint to Kenji Girl, as she was the one who agreed with my views and put the thing in. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 23:25, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
::So what? We have proof that Psyduck didn't "disobey". And Kenji-girl probably didn't know the exact meaning of the word. (I didn't until I looked it up) [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 23:31, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

== Look ==

No matter how you twist it, it's still speculation. I've protected the talk page for now so it doesn't suffer anymore clutter. Now find something useful to do besides arguing with everyone. No one agrees with you. It's speculation. You can't compare speculation to fandom and fansite articles. So knock it off already. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 02:25, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
:Even IF everyone agreed with me, it's still speculation. And besides, Wikis ALSO have a code where they DON'T allow Fanwank on them. Also, Pokeshipping is still speculation, which means it shouldn't even exist on Bulbapedia. Besides, how is that confirmation from Hidaka not speculation. Heck, if I made something up in regards to my company and what we were doing, REGARDLESS if I was a CEO or not, I'm still speculating. This only proves that you don't know what speculation is, or even if you did, you're too arrogant to actually see it. I mean, heck, even you yourself bring in speculation into articles, should you be removed due to that? [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 02:31, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

:P.S. Another thing, seeing how WPM has actually BEEN with him, AND has had actual experience with the interview, it's NOT speculation. I mean, in order for it to be speculation on WPM's part, he has to not have been there, and only have heard of it. Even IF it were actually speculation, by that logic, seeing how the writers make mistakes in their judgement most of the time, even someone who works for the Pokemon Company/Gamefaqs is speculating, seeing how even they themselves don't know what's truly in store. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 02:36, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

::Why do I even waste time talking to you?
:#Shipping has its own space. We warn that it contains speculation.
:#If Hidaka actually confirmed something by speaking, such as the reason why Tracey replaced Brock, than it's not speculation. If he has a weird reaction to a question and you assume its because he's not allowed to speak of Platinum, than it is speculation. I don't care how much experience WPM has with interviewing people. He's not psychic. His thoughts are not confirmation.
:#I know what speculation is. You apparently can't tell the difference between fanon and speculation.
:#What speculation do I bring? Please show me. Not counting Shipping of course. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 02:42, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

::What are you talking about? I wasn't saying that he wasn't allowed to speak of Platinum. I was saying he didn't know about platinum. If anyone was actually saying he was not allowed to talk about Platinum, it was J-J-M. Stop crediting/blaming things on me that I didn't even do!
::And I don't care if Hidaka WAS the original director or not, What he says still counts as speculation, because he doesn't have absolute knowledge of the franchise.
::As for things like... your speculations, other than the Shipping part, you've speculated on comparisons between sonic characters and pokemon characters. Personally, I don't see why Shipping shouldn't count. I mean, if it's speculation, it's speculation, and if the rules absolutely forebade speculation, then Shipping articles shouldn't exist, period, no matter what your stance on them is. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 02:55, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
:::LOL that's what you're talking about? Those comparisons are on my USERPAGE. Userpages are NOT part of the mainspace. Neither is Shipping. Masamitsu Hidaka IS on the mainspace. Now I get it. You clearly don't know the difference between userpages and mainpages. Hey if you want to mention your speculation on whether he knew of Platinum or not, put it on your userpage. That would be acceptable. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 03:03, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
:::@Weedle-SHIPPING HAS ITS OWN SPACE. HOW MANY TIMES DOES SHE HAVE TO TELL YOU THAT? ''IT'S NOT IN THE MAINSPACE. NEITHER ARE USERSPACES''. AND TAKE AN ENGLISH CLASS! WITH ALL THOSE GRAMMATICAL MISTAKES, NO WONDER EVERYONE HATES YOU! DAMMIT FIND SOMETHING MORE CONSTRUCTIVE TO DO THAN F***ING ARGUING WITH EVERYONE, YOU...
@KG-What userpage? He doesn't even have one. [[User:Alpha Totodile|'''Alpha''']] [[User talk:Alpha Totodile|'''Totodile''']]
::::Now now, everyone, let's respect the {{bp|code of conduct|COC}}. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 00:38, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

== éééééééééééé ==

Use the '''é'''. It's Pokémon, not Pokemon. It's right there on the character palette begging to be clicked. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 00:23, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
:Remember this. I see you don't still use the é. By not using it, you cause extra work to other people correcting your grammar. Also, "dub" and "original" are not proper nouns. '''UltimateSephiroth''' ([[User:UltimateSephiroth|about me]] · [[User talk:UltimateSephiroth|chat]] · [[Special:Contributions/UltimateSephiroth|edits]]) 21:42, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

== Your grammar ==

is absolutely horrendous. The amount of times people have had to point out your grammar mistakes--the spelling of Pokémon, the difference between it's and its, and random capitalization--is absolutely ridiculous. I speak on behalf of all of the community here at Bulbapedia: it's time for you to actually heed warnings and make improvements. If any of us don't see any honest improvement with your edits, it will become a punishable offense. You must learn the rules of grammar--because the lack of proper grammar makes this site seem like it is run by a bunch of ten-year olds. ''[[User:Maverick Nate|'''Maverick''']][[User talk:Maverick Nate|'''Nate''']]'' 15:04, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

== Reverting ==

If an edit of yours is reverted, it's a bad idea to go back and undo it. If you really feel that strongly about your edits, discuss it on the talk page. Don't get into an edit war. --[[User:PAK Man|PAK Man]] [[User talk:PAK Man|Talk]] 16:24, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
:I discussed it on DP049 with other users. In fact, it happened long before the League was even planned out. But just in case, I made a response on [[Talk:DP049]], where we did have this discussion. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 16:32, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

== Norman ==

Can you tell me where Norman actually says he is supposed to be the third Gym Leader faced? In the games and in the anime, he winds up fifth in each case, and IIRC his only reference to three (see my edit to [[Badge]]) is in AG003 saying three Pokémon are needed. If he does say he's supposed to be third, I'd like to know where because I've never seen that. If my understanding is correct, Hoenn is therefore handled by Ash and his friends like all regions before it (Norman came fifth because they were "near Petalburg" again, which doesn't make sense in the games; convenience, I guess, in the anime), and Norman's Gym requirements are the only thing that stopped him challenging there first. [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 15:52, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
:That might have been a mistake (claiming he was actually supposed to be the third gym leader, I mean). But Norman DOES state in the ending of the episode that Ash was supposed to actually challenge him later on, and then points to Rustboro as being the first gym Ash should face. That would imply that there was indeed supposed to be a specific order trainers were supposed to face the gyms, at least in Hoenn. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 15:58, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
::[https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=R3vMoSgzBIM#t=1166 Here's the episode.] I set it to start at the beginning of the final segment, but you can watch it in full if you'd like. Norman NEVER said he should be challenged later on. If you can show me where he says it, then that's fine, I just don't see what you say proven in the anime. [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 16:07, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
:::This is from the summary of the episode on this website: "Later back in front of Norman's Gym, Norman explains that he's actually a Gym Leader Ash is supposed to fight later on. The first Gym he should try is the one in Rustboro City" This is right near the end. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 16:07, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
::::I'll visit there, then. Here are Norman's lines from the ending:
::::*"Your brother does know a lot about Pokémon and just might be a big help to you."
::::*"Ash, would it be too much of a bother if Max traveled along with you and May?"
::::*"I have a little something to give the both of you: a badge case to hold your winning Gym badges." (A grammar error here, too.)
::::*"And son, this is for you."
::::*"With one of those, you'll always know exactly where you are."
::::*"I suggest that you first travel to the closest Gym from here, and that's located in Rustboro City."
::::*"You do your best!"
::::Nothing about being faced later, so I'll go edit that article too. Thanks for the tip. [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 16:16, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
Never mind, that's another Website. I think I've proven that the other Website is not reliable. Do you have a link? [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 16:17, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
:Never mind again, I've edited [[AG003]]. [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 16:20, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

== Blocked ==

Weedle, you have been blocked for a duration of seven days for your edit war on [[Mewtwo Returns]]. You are well aware that edit warring is not permitted on Bulbapedia, and that the proper course of dispute resolution is to use the article's talk page to discuss the changes in dispute. Take this time to re-familiarize yourself with Bulbapedia policy. Thank you, - [[User:Kogoro|'''Kogoro''']] '''-''' [[User talk:Kogoro|'''Talk to me''']] - 22:14, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

== Pocket Monsters: The Animation ==

Can you refer to it as ''[[Pocket Monsters: The Animation]]'' so that it shows up on the wanted pages and shows that it needs to be created? Also, do you personally have a copy of the book? --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 02:04, 20 September 2015 (UTC)
:Sure thing, I'll do that in my next edit. Also, I don't personally have a copy of the book, but I do know someone who does: http://cindysuke.tumblr.com/post/34817930237/the-facts-about-pokemon-world-lol [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 02:06, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

== The Preview Button ==
Instead of editing a page several times in a row, try using the preview button to make sure your edit looks the way you want it to. It's right next to the Save Page button. Please try it out, so as not to clog up the Recent Changes. Also, if you want to edit multiple sections of the page, make sure that you click "edit this page" at the top of the page rather than editing it by section. Thanks! --'''—★[[User:Reshii|レシイラム]]''''''[[User talk:Reshii|talk]]''' 11:16, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

== TV Ratings ==

Do you have a source for that? If you do, then state the source. Don't make other users guess and think that it's BS. If the source is Dogasu, then state that you got it from Dogasu. You have been here longer the I have to know that you should always source your information.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 04:35, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

== Serebii ==

Hi! I just want to make sure you know that we cannot take any information from Serebii as it appears you have done for [[Special:Diff/2462919|this Simisear information]]. If you see something on Serebii, make sure you can source it elsewhere first, and even then make doubly and ''triply'' sure that whatever you end up writing here still does not end up copying Serebii. Again, we ''cannot'' take things from Serebii. I hope you understand. =) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 23:21, 25 June 2016 (UTC)
:[[Special:Diff/2500010|This]]... Just to hammer this home: '''''NOTHING''''' is ever to be taken from Serebii, '''''period'''''.
:So, tell me... What is your source regarding XY137? Is it just Serebii? [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 15:05, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
::Serebii made it pretty clear that it came from Newtype Magazine. Here's what it had to say of the episode:
::"'''The Newtype magazine in Japan has revealed another new episode title, this time for the fourty-fourth episodes of Pokémon XY & Z.''' These episodes is set to air on October 6th, following another week break on September 29th. This episode features Clemont helping rebuild Lumiose City Gym after the Team Flare attack.
Episode 940: We Start at Zero! Clemont's Decision!!"
::If that doesn't qualify as a source besides Serebii, I don't know what does. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 15:20, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
:::I'm honestly just disappointed, Weedle. You have been here for a good amount of years and are still making the most simplest of mistakes. Serebii does not qualify for a source, regardless of what he says. He doesn't even post an image of the magazine scan, so no, it's not clear it came from a magazine scan. Saying something does not immediately make something true if you don't show the evidence.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 15:28, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
::::Given your comment [[Special:Diff/2499984|here]], I was also curious where you got "はじまりはゼロ！シトロンの決断！"? [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 15:31, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
:::::I got it here: http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/XY137 [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 16:53, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
::::::Pokemon Wikia isn't a credible source either, because they could add that title just like you could add it here. It isn't an official website. Once there's a picture for the title, it will be posted. [[User:Playerking95|Playerking95]] ([[User talk:Playerking95|talk]]) 16:58, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
:::::::In short, keep in mind that these things should always be ''verifiable''. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 17:02, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

I'd like to add, if your only source for English translations of new episode titles is Serebii, please don't try to use that (even changed a bit) to add the episodes here. That's still basically copying Serebii. Just leave it until someone else can make an independent translation. At worst, post the sources somewhere and let someone else create the episodes with independent translations. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 17:07, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

== PokeSpe reference ==

You are not right by saying that the implication of Silver being Giovanni's son in FR/LG and the subsequent confirmation of this fact in HG/SS is a PokeSpe reference in the games. It was the games that first mentioned the fact. PokeSpe decided to make Silver Giovanni's son only in FR/LG Chapter, which was after the release of FireRed and LeafGreen. So, it is the manga that referenced the game, not the other way 'round. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 16:14, 24 August 2016 (UTC)

== New episode pages ==

When creating a new episode page, please use the {{template|New episode}} template. Otherwise, you get copy/paste errors like with what you did for [[XY138]] and [[XY139]]. Thank you. --[[User:Carmenstar97|Carmen★]] ''[[User talk:Carmenstar97|(Talk |]] [[Special:Contributions/Carmenstar97|contribs)]]'' 13:33, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

== Linking moves ==

Whenever you're linking to a move article, it's important to use the <nowiki>{{m}}</nowiki> template, as shown, to avoid using redirects. For example, <nowiki>{{m|Dark Void}}</nowiki> is the correct usage, not <nowiki>[[Dark Void]]</nowiki>. Just so you know. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 00:16, 30 September 2018 (UTC)

== English Celebi ==

Are you playing a game set to the Japanese language or a system and game from the Japanese region? I have doubts about Celebi having English text for the Japanese region. '''[[User:Lady Ariel|Lady]] [[User talk:Lady Ariel|Ariel]]''' 02:00, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
:I'm playing an English game set to the English language and I downloaded the game from the Nintendo eShop channel on the English Nintendo 3DS. Nothing Japanese at all regarding the game (well, aside from it in general was originally made in Japan, I mean.). I also managed to [https://otnesse.tumblr.com/post/179272822979/proof-that-the-wondercard-description-is-in photograph] it as well. Sorry for it being low quality, but I'm not sure how to get it directly from the game a'la Serebii.net. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 10:01, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
:EDIT: Sorry, now I see what was going on. Shouldn't have done that, dang it. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 10:03, 21 October 2018 (UTC)

== Link templates ==

Hey! I'm going to have to encourage you to read the site's {{bp|list of link templates}} again. Using <nowiki>{{an|Rotom Pokédex}}</nowiki> or simply <nowiki>{{Rotom}}</nowiki> is highly encouraged, not <nowiki>[[Rotom Pokédex (anime)|Rotom]]</nowiki>. Thank you. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 20:24, 6 October 2019 (UTC)

== Using Serebii as a source ==

Once again, you are using Serebii as a source when you know full well that he is not a valid source. It doesn't matter if he's right, just do no use his site as your source. Period. Your source should be the official Japanese site, not someone repeating what the Japanese site is saying.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 13:49, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

== "Advantage" ==

While I acknowlege some of your Team Rocket vs. Caterpie argument, "advantage" doesn't mean that Ash was guaranteed to beat Misty; it simply means that he was objectively in a favorable situation prior to the battle being interrupted (and since this was acknowledged by both Trainers, it's not simply speculation). I decided to rewrite that particular part entirely anyway, but I just wanted to clarify that. In the future, please try to use the talk page instead of edit warring (although I admittedly shouldn't have made that last revert either, so I apologize for that).

Additionally, I never claimed that you were being biased: I actually think you removing the previous wording of "about to win the battle" was the right decision, hence why I decided to try slightly rewording it instead. However, if you're going to say things like "regardless of my views on Misty", "even IF I believed Ash was owed a genuine win", and "my own personal views on the match were irrelevant"... of course I'm going to begin to question if you're truly attempting to be impartial here (especially given your history of Misty-related edits over the past 15 years). [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 10:18, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

:Fine, I'll grant you that much regarding your points, and that your wording was better. Though to be fair, Caterpie was also in extremely low health at that time as well thanks to its earlier near-death against Pidgeotto and... well, you know the rest of that battle and how it turned out for everyone involved (and it was also fairly explicit that it was weak even before the fight against Pidgeotto, much less Team Rocket. After Ash's attempt at capturing Pidgeotto outright without weakening it first just resulted in it escaping easily, Misty reminded him that he needed to battle it first, and also specifically stated the only reason Caterpie got easily captured without a fight was because it was already weak beforehand). I might be fanatically loyal to Misty, I'll admit that much, but I still would have avoided using "advantage" even if I had the exact opposite emotional views of Misty (and in fact, back when I was still on Bulbagarden and the discussion popped up whether Ash or Misty would have won, I gave pretty firm arguments why it wasn't necessarily confirmed Ash was going to win, and made it very clear that my being a Misty fan had absolutely nothing to do with my rationale, and that if anything my rationale actually was tied far more to something that happened with Ash than it ever did with Misty and then cited that particular battle. Granted, PDL pretty much mocked my argument when I cited that battle, but still...). Yes, it's true that Starmie was explicitly low on health, but it's also true that it was still close enough to the water's edge that it merely needed to hop back in and regenerate, though it might need a bit more effort to pull it off. And I mostly had to mention that stuff repeatedly in case someone DID try to accuse me of being biased towards Misty due to past experiences on Serebii, Pokecommunity, and BMGf where they did repeatedly do that. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 02:50, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
::A bit late on this one to reply (eh, still less than 6 months), but your talk page comment for Misty's Starmie (which I replied to, but I figured it would be appropriate to go into a bit more detail here) got me to rewatch EP007 in both Japanese and English, and I believe you misremembered Staryu's situation. What Staryu was actually doing when it dived into the water was negating the usage of Stun Spore and Sleep Powder (kind of similar to Natural Cure, but with water rather than switching out), not healing itself, so the argument that Starmie could still regenerate itself in the water doesn't really hold up. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 22:46, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
:::I didn't actually mention Staryu at all in that argument (my main focus was Starmie, and if anything I didn't even CONSIDER Staryu's earlier dive into the water to alleviate itself of Stun Spore.), and for the record, Starmie's core wasn't even damaged (ie, it didn't crack. The blinking light simply meant it was low on health), which is the only way it won't be able to heal at all barring maybe a Pokemon Center. And even if we were to somehow use that rationale for how it doesn't hold up, Bye Bye Butterfree made it very explicit that Starmie (and presumably Staryu) most certainly can heal itself (and by that, I specifically mean heal its HP back upwards, not simply negating a status effect) when exposed to water, at least as long as its core was intact (there was a scene during Ash, Misty and Brock's confrontation with Team Rocket over the poached Butterfree where James used a sledgehammer on Starmie, landed a direct hit on it and sent it flying into a wall, causing it to slump down in a similar manner to its situation in Waterflowers of Cerulean City, then Misty grabbed a water cannon (presumably from within Team Rocket's hideout) and proceeded to spray a torrent on it, and then it came right back to full strength). And that's not even getting into how Starmie's Pokedex entries back then make it explicit that it can regenerate as long as its core remains intact. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 09:36, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
::::"''I didn't actually mention Staryu at all in that argument (my main focus was Starmie, and if anything I didn't even CONSIDER Staryu's earlier dive into the water to alleviate itself of Stun Spore.)''"
::::You may not have mentioned Staryu, but [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=EP007&diff=3592528&oldid=3592393 you stated here that Starmie could recover by jumping into the pool], which is what Staryu did earlier to negate Stun Spore/Sleep Powder, so I don't feel like it was unreasonable for me to assume that you used Staryu as a basis for that. If that's not the case, then I apologize.
::::"''For the record, Starmie's core wasn't even damaged (ie, it didn't crack. The blinking light simply meant it was low on health), which is the only way it won't be able to heal at all barring maybe a Pokemon Center.''"
::::I'm pretty sure my stance from the very beginning was simply that Starmie was in an objectively disadvantageous position. I never mentioned anything about its core cracking.
::::"''And even if we were to somehow use that rationale for how it doesn't hold up, Bye Bye Butterfree made it very explicit that Starmie (and presumably Staryu) most certainly can heal itself (and by that, I specifically mean heal its HP back upwards, not simply negating a status effect) when exposed to water, at least as long as its core was intact (there was a scene during Ash, Misty and Brock's confrontation with Team Rocket over the poached Butterfree where James used a sledgehammer on Starmie, landed a direct hit on it and sent it flying into a wall, causing it to slump down in a similar manner to its situation in Waterflowers of Cerulean City, then Misty grabbed a water cannon (presumably from within Team Rocket's hideout) and proceeded to spray a torrent on it, and then it came right back to full strength).''"
::::Bit of a sidenote, but it was Jessie that used the sledgehammer. As for the rest: I mentioned this on the talk page for Misty's Starmie as well, but I don't think using future episodes is the greatest counterargument. There are many instances of Pokémon displaying a certain trait for the sake of the progression of the episode, only for it to never be used again (which I'm pretty sure is also what happened here as well).
::::"''And that's not even getting into how Starmie's Pokedex entries back then make it explicit that it can regenerate as long as its core remains intact.''"
::::Those are Staryu's Pokédex entries you're thinking of, which is specifically for lost appendages rather than fully healing itself.
::::My main issue with your argument is that it's built too much on theoretical scenarios rather than what was actually presented within the episode itself. Sure, it's true that Starmie didn't "lose", but I never claimed that it did. I only stated that it was in an disadvantageous situation, which was acknowledged within the episode itself.
::::Also, you mentioned earlier that people have called you biased on Serebii, PokeCommunity, and the Bulbagarden forums. I only say this to try to offer some constructive criticism, but if there are three separate communities saying the same thing, I fear that there may be some truth within their words. If your initial talk page post on Misty's Starmie had been something like "Misty didn't really lose since the battle was interrupted, but I agree that it needs to be rewritten", I would completely understand. Instead, your post contained a fairly lengthy paragraph about the exact circumstances of the battle, theoretical ways in which the battle could have progressed, and a comparison to a separate episode. I feel like that's a bit much considering Temari44 only mentioned the Gym battle in a small part of their post. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 11:55, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
:::::"''You may not have mentioned Staryu, but [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=EP007&diff=3592528&oldid=3592393 you stated here that Starmie could recover by jumping into the pool], which is what Staryu did earlier to negate Stun Spore/Sleep Powder, so I don't feel like it was unreasonable for me to assume that you used Staryu as a basis for that. If that's not the case, then I apologize.''"
:::::I guess you could say Staryu might have been a factor, but even without Staryu, the episode Bye Bye Butterfree already made clear it can fully heal from being exposed to water. And that's not even getting into how Generation III later had Staryu and Starmie have an ability to outright heal from water type attacks (and it wouldn't be the first time they did abilities for Pokemon based on an earlier episode. See Rhydon and it having Lightning Rod as an ability in a direct reference to the infamous Aim for the Horn situation during Blaine's Gym Battle).
:::::"''I'm pretty sure my stance from the very beginning was simply that Starmie was in an objectively disadvantageous position. I never mentioned anything about its core cracking.''"
:::::It still would have been a definite factor in whether or not Starmie would have been in a disadvantageous situation or not (and I define "disadvantageous" as "absolutely no way to get out of trouble", not "small chance of getting out of trouble" but "literally 0% chance"). The only time where being exposed to water DIDN'T heal it was during the battle against Giselle when it was knocked into the pool (which, BTW, the person specifically referenced and I even agreed with him), and even there it was explicitly shown that Starmie's core had been smashed beforehand (which actually backs up its Pokedex entry if anything). If they wanted to actually indicate Misty was inevitably going to lose, they should have made sure to have Starmie's core explicitly crack from impact and then flash to imply that the core was damaged and thus cannot heal. And I realize full well they acknowledged it was that, but that unfortunately isn't enough since I've seen plenty of instances where they outright state an opponent is at a disadvantage with the person winning attempting to press the attack, only for the winning individual to end up defeated at the last second (like Tealc's fight against that fake Jaffah rebel leader for example, or to keep it contained to Pokemon like how Caterpie defeated Jessie and James, heck, how Ash turned the tide against Jessie during his Viridian Gym Match), or otherwise it being made clear afterwards that they weren't in any danger and just trying to increase drama [the latter bit I'm specifically thinking of how Gotenks in an attempt at staging a dramatic finish exaggerated how Super Buu is cleaning his clock, only for Piccolo to take it seriously and seal the Hyperbolic Time Chamber and it then being revealed after the fact that Gotenks was actually bluffing about losing meaning Piccolo blew up the entrance for nothing].). I would have said the same thing if it were Ash and Pidgeotto in their shoes (well, okay, maybe not quite to that level since unlike Starmie, Pidgeotto doesn't heal from absorbing water).
:::::"''Bit of a sidenote, but it was Jessie that used the sledgehammer. As for the rest: I mentioned this on the talk page for Misty's Starmie as well, but I don't think using future episodes is the greatest counterargument. There are many instances of Pokémon displaying a certain trait for the sake of the progression of the episode, only for it to never be used again (which I'm pretty sure is also what happened here as well).''"
:::::Fine, I stand corrected regarding who used the sledgehammer, but my point still stands. And for the record, what you used as a counterargument is a very bad argument in itself, since I can easily use that exact argument to just shut down the wiki altogether and delete all articles precisely BECAUSE they do progression and never bring it up again, thus can't qualify as facts, thus can't allow for an encyclopedia or even summaries (I'm an all or nothing kind of guy). Either way, the fact that Staryu and Starmie later on got Water Absorb would indicate they thought specifically of that scene when deciding on those abilities for them (similar to Rhydon having Lightning Rod), so more likely than not it has that ability. Heck, Misty's Starmie's article even specifically noted that it carried at the very least a similar ability to Water Absorb and cited that particular scene.
:::::"''Those are Staryu's Pokédex entries you're thinking of, which is specifically for lost appendages rather than fully healing itself.''"
:::::Being the evolved form of Staryu, I'm pretty sure Starmie probably retained that ability. Heck, its article even indicated it had regenerative abilities as well.
:::::"''My main issue with your argument is that it's built too much on theoretical scenarios rather than what was actually presented within the episode itself. Sure, it's true that Starmie didn't "lose", but I never claimed that it did. I only stated that it was in an disadvantageous situation, which was acknowledged within the episode itself.''"
:::::As I stated above, the problem is that there have been plenty of instances where they stated they were in a disadvantageous situation in an episode or even a game (both inside the Pokemon anime and even in other franchises), yet the person at a disadvantage outright prevailed against the superior opponent, so that unfortunately isn't even enough to acknowledge that bit (as when I think of disadvantageous situations, I specifically have in mind instances where there's no way to get out of trouble, and by "no way" I mean literally 0% chance of survivability, let alone prevailing.). That's why I still think the situation was very ambiguous ESPECIALLY given Starmie's later being revealed to have a similar ability to Water Absorb during the events of Bye Bye Butterfree. Heck, if anything, Ash's Caterpie came far closer to actually BEING in an explicit disadvantageous situation when he fought Ekans, Koffing, and Meowth due to having the entire deck stacked against him (aside from the illegal at the time 2-on-1 match that Team Rocket forced Ash into, their Ekans and Koffing had significantly more experience than it, plus the fact that both were Poison-types, which gave them a type advantage over his bug-type status, and they had even managed to easily take out Ash's Pidgeotto, who at that time nearly made Caterpie its lunch thanks largely to Ash's stupidity earlier, and that's not even getting into how it was close to fainting by that point thanks to that earlier battle, and even without the Pidgeotto battle was weak enough that Ash didn't even need to battle it just to capture it. Note that I said "came far closer to", not actually WAS a disadvantageous situation, because ultimately Caterpie prevailed).
:::::"''Also, you mentioned earlier that people have called you biased on Serebii, PokeCommunity, and the Bulbagarden forums. I only say this to try to offer some constructive criticism, but if there are three separate communities saying the same thing, I fear that there may be some truth within their words. If your initial talk page post on Misty's Starmie had been something like "Misty didn't really lose since the battle was interrupted, but I agree that it needs to be rewritten", I would completely understand. Instead, your post contained a fairly lengthy paragraph about the exact circumstances of the battle, theoretical ways in which the battle could have progressed, and a comparison to a separate episode. I feel like that's a bit much considering Temari44 only mentioned the Gym battle in a small part of their post.''"
:::::Hey, I tend to get very detailed in my replies. It's basically a quirk of mine due to both my aspergers and also my parents specifically demanding I get more detailed in my answers rather than saying "just because", "I felt like it", or even going extremely general about who "they" are when I say "people". As far as that big about Bulbapedia, Pokecommunity, and Serebii.net, usually it's just the same people who happen to be members of all three sites, and either way, just because three entities claim something doesn't necessarily make it true. Just ask the coverage about the Vietnam War by the major networks. All showed the worst aspects about Vietnam, yet it eventually came to light that all of them, especially the so-called "most trusted man in America" Walter Cronkite, were extremely biased against the war and in Cronkite's case may have even up and out lied through his teeth during the Tet offensive. A similar story can be shown with the Trayvon Martin case. And I only replied in that sense because he specifically said that Misty lost that battle (and I wasn't even disagreeing with his overall argument that Misty's Starmie was weak. If anything, I fully agreed with his argument, including its loss against Giselle's Graveler, and only had a minor quibble with Misty's Starmie being stated to have lost the Cerulean Gym battle, and that's only because there was literally nothing to suggest it lost before Team Rocket interfered.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 21:36, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
::::::"''I guess you could say Staryu might have been a factor, but even without Staryu, the episode Bye Bye Butterfree already made clear it can fully heal from being exposed to water. And that's not even getting into how Generation III later had Staryu and Starmie have an ability to outright heal from water type attacks (and it wouldn't be the first time they did abilities for Pokemon based on an earlier episode. See Rhydon and it having Lightning Rod as an ability in a direct reference to the infamous Aim for the Horn situation during Blaine's Gym Battle).''"
::::::Neither Staryu nor Starmie have Water Absorb as a possible Ability.
::::::"''It still would have been a definite factor in whether or not Starmie would have been in a disadvantageous situation or not (and I define "disadvantageous" as "absolutely no way to get out of trouble", not "small chance of getting out of trouble" but "literally 0% chance").''"
::::::The definition of disadvantage is "an unfavorable circumstance or condition that reduces the chances of success or effectiveness"; it does ''not'' mean "0% chance of prevailing". Misty's Starmie was explicitly stated to be low on energy (but not actually knocked out), which means it was at a disadvantage.
::::::"''The only time where being exposed to water DIDN'T heal it was during the battle against Giselle when it was knocked into the pool (which, BTW, the person specifically referenced and I even agreed with him), and even there it was explicitly shown that Starmie's core had been smashed beforehand (which actually backs up its Pokedex entry if anything).''"
::::::I'm fairly sure that this "water healing" attribute was only ever displayed once in EP021. I don't think it makes a lot of sense to say "the only time where being exposed to water DIDN'T heal it" when it only happened ''once''.
::::::"''If they wanted to actually indicate Misty was inevitably going to lose, they should have made sure to have Starmie's core explicitly crack from impact and then flash to imply that the core was damaged and thus cannot heal. And I realize full well they acknowledged it was that, but that unfortunately isn't enough since I've seen plenty of instances where they outright state an opponent is at a disadvantage with the person winning attempting to press the attack, only for the winning individual to end up defeated at the last second (like Tealc's fight against that fake Jaffah rebel leader for example, or to keep it contained to Pokemon like how Caterpie defeated Jessie and James, heck, how Ash turned the tide against Jessie during his Viridian Gym Match), or otherwise it being made clear afterwards that they weren't in any danger and just trying to increase drama [the latter bit I'm specifically thinking of how Gotenks in an attempt at staging a dramatic finish exaggerated how Super Buu is cleaning his clock, only for Piccolo to take it seriously and seal the Hyperbolic Time Chamber and it then being revealed after the fact that Gotenks was actually bluffing about losing meaning Piccolo blew up the entrance for nothing].). I would have said the same thing if it were Ash and Pidgeotto in their shoes (well, okay, maybe not quite to that level since unlike Starmie, Pidgeotto doesn't heal from absorbing water).''"
::::::Again, a disadvantage is not an unwinnable situation. I also don't think the Gotenks situation is comparable since it was made clear to the readers/viewers that he was faking it even before Piccolo destroyed the door (and truth be told, Gotenks ultimately ''did'' fail to beat Super Buu because he's an idiot and refused to actually take the fight seriously until much later). [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 22:59, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
::::::"''Fine, I stand corrected regarding who used the sledgehammer, but my point still stands. And for the record, what you used as a counterargument is a very bad argument in itself, since I can easily use that exact argument to just shut down the wiki altogether and delete all articles precisely BECAUSE they do progression and never bring it up again, thus can't qualify as facts, thus can't allow for an encyclopedia or even summaries (I'm an all or nothing kind of guy).''"
::::::I'm sorry, but I feel like this is a huge stretch. My argument is based on information specifically presented in the episode itself, while yours is theorizing on how Misty could still make a comeback based on information ''not'' presented in the episode. I don't see how Starmie displaying a one-time attribute of being rejuvenated from a water blast in a later episode should be used as an argument for the Gym battle; Misty never said anything like "If I can just get Starmie into the water, I still have a chance".
::::::"''Either way, the fact that Staryu and Starmie later on got Water Absorb would indicate they thought specifically of that scene when deciding on those abilities for them (similar to Rhydon having Lightning Rod), so more likely than not it has that ability. Heck, Misty's Starmie's article even specifically noted that it carried at the very least a similar ability to Water Absorb and cited that particular scene.''""
::::::Just to reiterate: '''Neither Staryu nor Starmie have Water Absorb as a possible Ability'''. Their regular abilities are Illuminate and Natural Cure, along with gaining Analytic as a Hidden Ability starting with Gen V.
::::::"''Being the evolved form of Staryu, I'm pretty sure Starmie probably retained that ability. Heck, its article even indicated it had regenerative abilities as well.''"
::::::Again, this is used in the context of lost body parts. It's certainly not something like an immediate healing factor.
::::::"''As I stated above, the problem is that there have been plenty of instances where they stated they were in a disadvantageous situation in an episode or even a game (both inside the Pokemon anime and even in other franchises), yet the person at a disadvantage outright prevailed against the superior opponent, so that unfortunately isn't even enough to acknowledge that bit (as when I think of disadvantageous situations, I specifically have in mind instances where there's no way to get out of trouble, and by "no way" I mean literally 0% chance of survivability, let alone prevailing.). That's why I still think the situation was very ambiguous ESPECIALLY given Starmie's later being revealed to have a similar ability to Water Absorb during the events of Bye Bye Butterfree. Heck, if anything, Ash's Caterpie came far closer to actually BEING in an explicit disadvantageous situation when he fought Ekans, Koffing, and Meowth due to having the entire deck stacked against him (aside from the illegal at the time 2-on-1 match that Team Rocket forced Ash into, their Ekans and Koffing had significantly more experience than it, plus the fact that both were Poison-types, which gave them a type advantage over his bug-type status, and they had even managed to easily take out Ash's Pidgeotto, who at that time nearly made Caterpie its lunch thanks largely to Ash's stupidity earlier, and that's not even getting into how it was close to fainting by that point thanks to that earlier battle, and even without the Pidgeotto battle was weak enough that Ash didn't even need to battle it just to capture it. Note that I said "came far closer to", not actually WAS a disadvantageous situation, because ultimately Caterpie prevailed).''"
::::::Again, a disadvantage is not an unwinnable situation, just a situation that is harder to win from. There's nothing wrong with saying that Starmie was at a disadvantage, since that's what was displayed and stated within the episode itself.
::::::"''Hey, I tend to get very detailed in my replies. It's basically a quirk of mine due to both my aspergers and also my parents specifically demanding I get more detailed in my answers rather than saying "just because", "I felt like it", or even going extremely general about who "they" are when I say "people". As far as that big about Bulbapedia, Pokecommunity, and Serebii.net, usually it's just the same people who happen to be members of all three sites, and either way, just because three entities claim something doesn't necessarily make it true. '''Just ask the coverage about the Vietnam War by the major networks. All showed the worst aspects about Vietnam, yet it eventually came to light that all of them, especially the so-called "most trusted man in America" Walter Cronkite, were extremely biased against the war and in Cronkite's case may have even up and out lied through his teeth during the Tet offensive. A similar story can be shown with the Trayvon Martin case.'''''"
::::::This is an ''extreme'' comparison. One person's conduct on the Internet in regards to a fictional character from an anime is not at all equivalent to '''war or murder'''. At the very least, it's undeniable that a lot of conflict that you've run into on these sites are related to Misty (honestly, I can just look at earlier posts on this very talk page even before this particular discussion started). It's one thing to claim that you're not being biased and another to actually showcase that you're not being biased. You even admitted earlier that you're "fanatically loyal to Misty". [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 22:59, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
:::::::If I were to be biased regarding Misty, I'd have rewritten every loss she had to be eradicated and thus indicated she never lost (either that, or if I genuinely hated Misty, rewrite everything to outright EXAGGERATE her loss ratio to imply she has a similarly bad track record to Team Rocket). Not only did I not do that, I actually agreed with the guy who tried to defend Starmie's overall track record that the Giselle bit WAS indeed a loss (a story-required loss, yes, but a loss nonetheless, and if I agreed that the Giselle bit was a loss, that is indeed showcasing I'm NOT biased. Someone who truly IS biased towards Misty in terms of liking her would never agree to her having a single loss at all). No, I'm not being biased, even if I do have fanatical loyalty to Misty (someone who's truly biased would literally rewrite the entire wiki to either avoid listing any, and I do mean literally ANY flaws she might have, or exaggerate her flaws to such a degree that they come across as the absolute worst person to ever live). Heck, I have an absolute hatred of May and to a lesser extent Dawn, yet you don't see me editing their articles to paint them in the absolute worst light imaginable (which WOULD be the very definition of bias, BTW). If anything, I AM attempting to be VERY objective in my edits especially regarding Misty. Also, a huge amount of stuff on here literally only happened in single episodes, or so few episodes that they barely even matter, yet they're still noted as actually having happened as if they had any importance, so that's far from a rebuttal regarding whether or not Starmie could indeed heal from it (and once is more than enough to indicate it would happen). I might as well also point out that I focus on the connections between generalities and details, so I DON'T limit myself to whether it's demonstrated in a single episode or not. Otherwise, Ash's Ho-Oh connection is meaningless since they never bring it up since the beginning of DP, and his Aura abilities also only showed up a few times in DP. And I do agree ultimately Misty's Starmie was weakened, but we have no conclusive proof that it would have lost, period, hence why I tried to rewrite it the way I did earlier as that's the only actual way to write it. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 02:13, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
::::::::Everything that you're describing is simply bias taken to the logical extreme (i.e. to the point of being completely unreasonable), which is an exaggeration and doesn't actually disprove whether or not you're partial to Misty (which I think is fairly obvious at this point). Again, what's important in this instance is the info presented in the episode itself, which is less speculatory than thinking of ways that Misty "could" win or not. Again, I never said she actually lost. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 03:27, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

== Pokémon ==

When writing "Pokémon" or "Poké", don't forget to write the "e" as "é". Also, the word "Trainer" is capitalized. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 00:06, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

== Sensational Sisters ==

There's no indication in Japanese or English that Misty "quit" being a Gym Leader; she simply says that she left her sisters in charge of the Gym. Please don't just plainly revert me and discuss things on the talk page first. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 12:13, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
:I watched both Japanese with Subs and the English dub with Closed Captioning, and this is what she says when the topic is brought up:
:"When I saw you [Satoshi] battling, I just couldn’t sit still! So I left Hanada Gym to my sisters and set off on a journey."
:"After watching your [Ash's] battle, I just couldn't stay still a second longer! And so, I left the [Cerulean] Gym with my sisters in charge, and started a journey!"
:And while it's true that it doesn't use the exact word "quit" in there, it's pretty clear that's what's being implied especially when past episodes have made it clear that you can't engage in a Pokemon Journey while you're a Gym Leader (in fact, such a restraint was made explicit as early as [[EP005|Showdown at Pewter City]] from both Flint AND Brock, and I think Candace and Zoey both alluded to this restraint in that episode of Diamond and Pearl.). Besides, no one talks like that about a position they simply were on temporary leave from (I sure don't). That sounds more like the kind of talk a guy gives when he's about to quit his job for a better one. A good contrast would be her reappearance in Alola (second one) where she explicitly stated that a major part of why she went to Alola besides visiting Ash was to take a break from the swarms of Gym Challengers that were arriving. Either way, she definitely never mentioned the gym at all in JN147, much less resuming gym duties (the most we got was Brock eagerly telling Misty to say hi to her sisters for him before Croagunk toxic stabbed him), and considering most instances she either explicitly mentions she has to resume gym duties when she departs (Mirage Kingdom Arc, the Kanto, Alola arc) or otherwise its made very clear she had to resume Gym Duties (beginning of Battle Frontier where Daisy basically called Misty and threatened to hand badges out again if she didn't return, Mastermind as well since it's made explicit she was only there due to being invited alongside Oak and was most likely going to return to the Gym afterward), the fact that she makes absolutely NO mention of gym duties at all means she most likely wasn't going back to being a Gym Leader that time. Let's not forget, Brock also returned to Pewter City in the same episode, and he's repeatedly stated to no longer be a Gym Leader and thus obviously wasn't going to be resuming gym duties. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 12:29, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
::Most of what you've outlined is your own headcanon with no real proof that she quit being a Gym Leader, which you also just admitted to.
::''"I watched both Japanese with Subs and the English dub with Closed Captioning, and this is what she says when the topic is brought up:''
::''"When I saw you [Satoshi] battling, I just couldn’t sit still! So I left Hanada Gym to my sisters and set off on a journey."''
::''"After watching your [Ash's] battle, I just couldn't stay still a second longer! And so, I left the [Cerulean] Gym with my sisters in charge, and started a journey!"''
::Yes, I also watched both. Again, there's no mention of her quitting.
::"''And while it's true that it doesn't use the exact word "quit" in there, it's pretty clear that's what's being implied especially when past episodes have made it clear that you can't engage in a Pokemon Journey while you're a Gym Leader (in fact, such a restraint was made explicit as early as [[EP005|Showdown at Pewter City]] from both Flint AND Brock, and I think Candace and Zoey both alluded to this restraint in that episode of Diamond and Pearl.).''"
::I'm pretty sure that you just can't leave a Gym '''unattended''' without another Gym Leader looking after it. Brock was able to leave on a journey after leaving Pewter Gym in Flint's care (and Lt. Surge also left Vermilion Gym in Visquez's care while he went on his own journey). Both Flint and Brock were considered official Gym Leaders even as late as DPS02.
::"''Besides, no one talks like that about a position they simply were on temporary leave from (I sure don't). That sounds more like the kind of talk a guy gives when he's about to quit his job for a better one. A good contrast would be her reappearance in Alola (second one) where she explicitly stated that a major part of why she went to Alola besides visiting Ash was to take a break from the swarms of Gym Challengers that were arriving.''"
::Firstly, you can't claim that "no one talks like that about a position they simply were on temporary leave from" when plenty of people watched that episode without ever getting the impression that she "quit". Secondly, this is speculation.
::"''Either way, she definitely never mentioned the gym at all in JN147, much less resuming gym duties (the most we got was Brock eagerly telling Misty to say hi to her sisters for him before Croagunk toxic stabbed him), and considering most instances she either explicitly mentions she has to resume gym duties when she departs (Mirage Kingdom Arc, the Kanto, Alola arc) or otherwise its made very clear she had to resume Gym Duties (beginning of Battle Frontier where Daisy basically called Misty and threatened to hand badges out again if she didn't return, Mastermind as well since it's made explicit she was only there due to being invited alongside Oak and was most likely going to return to the Gym afterward), the fact that she makes absolutely NO mention of gym duties at all means she most likely wasn't going back to being a Gym Leader that time. Let's not forget, Brock also returned to Pewter City in the same episode, and he's repeatedly stated to no longer be a Gym Leader and thus obviously wasn't going to be resuming gym duties.''"
::Most of this is speculation (outside of her not mentioning resuming Gym Leader duties). However, my reworded edit didn't say that she resumed her duties, just that her sisters look after the Gym when she's away.
::I also maintain that you should not have reverted me twice before going to the talk page. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 13:16, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
:::Actually, Brock was repeatedly considered an ex-Gym Leader/Former Gym Leader by the Alola, Kanto arc (more specifically, the episode where Brock and Misty show them the ropes at Cerulean Gym regarding gym battles), which was well after the events of DPS02. I'd know, I watched it on PokemonTV when it came out with closed captioning. Even made particular note about that bit. Only Misty was specifically stated to be an actual current Gym Leader in that episode. And last I checked, Giovanni didn't explicitly make Jessie, James and Meowth Gym Leaders (they merely assumed they became Gym Leaders) and if anything his orders to them made it sound as though he specifically wanted them to guard against a possible attack on the Gym ("Use these [Pokemon] in the event of an emergency!"). And as far as Lt. Surge is concerned, quite frankly, ESPECIALLY after Brock was explicitly considered a former Gym Leader, ie, one who is no longer a gym leader at all, that means Lt. Surge isn't a gym leader by that point either (besides, Flint's not even a Gym Leader anymore, Forrest is, and most certainly was an official one by DPS02.). And the whole "unattended" issue is its own problem since, ignoring how Giovanni's apparently running Team Rocket without actually BEING at the gym prior to Battle of the Badge (afterwards, he most likely quit the position), we had Fantina being absent from the gym for a good long while, being absent TWICE, in fact, both times when Ash tried to challenge her, and didn't even get a slap on the wrist for it, much less had her gym priviledges revoked for it. And I still stand by my statement that there's no way Misty would say something like that if she wasn't quitting the position. And BTW, that stuff I described wasn't headcanon. That was evidence directly from the episode and related episodes. Want to know what ACTUAL headcanon is? Misty's parents being murdered by Team Rocket members and her nearly being killed by them as a baby, and then being adopted by the Sensational Sisters, stuff that had literally no basis whatsoever from the series and something I made up in its entirety (and yes, I actually DID write that as a fanfic). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 13:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
::::"''Actually, Brock was repeatedly considered an ex-Gym Leader/Former Gym Leader by the Alola, Kanto arc (more specifically, the episode where Brock and Misty show them the ropes at Cerulean Gym regarding gym battles), which was well after the events of DPS02. I'd know, I watched it on PokemonTV when it came out with closed captioning. Even made particular note about that bit. Only Misty was specifically stated to be an actual current Gym Leader in that episode.''"
::::None of this has any relevance to what I was talking about.
::::"''And last I checked, Giovanni didn't explicitly make Jessie, James and Meowth Gym Leaders (they merely assumed they became Gym Leaders) and if anything his orders to them made it sound as though he specifically wanted them to guard against a possible attack on the Gym ("Use these [Pokemon] in the event of an emergency!").''"
::::I never even brought up Viridian Gym since its circumstances are much different from other Gyms.
::::"''And as far as Lt. Surge is concerned, quite frankly, ESPECIALLY after Brock was explicitly considered a former Gym Leader, ie, one who is no longer a gym leader at all, that means Lt. Surge isn't a gym leader by that point either (besides, Flint's not even a Gym Leader anymore, Forrest is, and most certainly was an official one by DPS02.). And the whole "unattended" issue is its own problem since, ignoring how Giovanni's apparently running Team Rocket without actually BEING at the gym prior to Battle of the Badge (afterwards, he most likely quit the position), we had Fantina being absent from the gym for a good long while, being absent TWICE, in fact, both times when Ash tried to challenge her, and didn't even get a slap on the wrist for it, much less had her gym priviledges revoked for it.''"
::::First of all, Visquez is referred to outright as a substitute Gym Leader for Lt. Surge, meaning Lt. Surge is definitely still a Gym Leader. This leads to my second point...
::::You're quite mistaken on several things regarding the status of the Pewter Gym Leader, as well as the restrictions on Gym Leaders traveling. Brock left Pewter Gym to Flint in order to travel with Ash for a lengthy amount of time and was STILL considered an official Gym Leader by DPS02 as far as the Pokémon Inspection Agency was concerned. The Nurse Joy from said agency explicitly refused to battle Forrest at first, and would only accept a battle from Brock or Flint (meaning that Flint was ''also'' still considered an official Gym Leader). While Forrest had been conducting Gym battles prior to this, he was not the ''official'' Gym Leader since Flint never delivered the paperwork to officiate the change, and only obtained the title during the events of the episode itself.
::::Between Brock leaving Pewter Gym to Flint (again, both of them still had their titles by DPS02), Lt. Surge leaving Vermilion Gym to Visquez, and Clemont leaving Lumiose Gym to Clembot, there's no indication that Gym Leaders will lose their titles just because they decided to travel, provided that someone is running the Gym (and even then, Fantina was never penalized for being absent, as you've already mentioned). Even Misty already had the title of Gym Leader prior to the beginning of the series.
::::"''And I still stand by my statement that there's no way Misty would say something like that if she wasn't quitting the position.''"
::::Literally nothing about her dialogue indicates that she "quit". I have no idea why you're so convinced otherwise.
::::"''And BTW, that stuff I described wasn't headcanon. That was evidence directly from the episode and related episodes. Want to know what ACTUAL headcanon is? Misty's parents being murdered by Team Rocket members and her nearly being killed by them as a baby, and then being adopted by the Sensational Sisters, stuff that had literally no basis whatsoever from the series and something I made up in its entirety (and yes, I actually DID write that as a fanfic).''"
::::Your personal interpretation of events is still headcanon. I don't know what you're trying to prove here by talking about your fanfiction. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 16:29, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
:::::The first bit actually has quite a bit of relevance, since you stated Brock and Flint were both Gym Leaders, and I was pointing out that Brock WASN'T considered a Gym Leader by that episode (the Alola, Kanto Gym episode). They wouldn't repeatedly call him a "former" Gym Leader if he still was one, as former means he no longer is one in any capacity. And yes, they repeatedly stated "Former Gym Leader" in reference to Brock twice, I think three times tops in that episode. I counted it while watching it, and even took mental note of those bits when comparing Brock's battle with Misty's battle on Pokecommunity's forums. And bear in mind that episode was FAR more recent than DPS02. If they wanted Brock to still be the Gym Leader, in ANY capacity, they'd strictly refer to him as Gym Leader, NOT Former Gym Leader.
:::::But, fine, we'll keep it to your rendition, but I'm doubtful they'd have Misty make that kind of emphasis regarding her resuming her journey if she was still an active gym leader (even with Lt. Surge, he had to specifically confer it onto Vasquez, and going by DPS02, such had to be done formally to the PIA's knowledge for it to stick considering what nearly happened with Forrest despite Brock specifically making him a Gym Leader after Family that Battles Together Stays Together. And BTW, a "substitute" would strictly be temporary, and a Pokemon Journey's considered a long-term engagement, so having Lt. Surge engage in a Journey while leaving a substitute doesn't make any sense at all. Besides, going by the summary for that episode, it specifically stated he was away for training, which doesn't quite indicate he went on a journey, the last of which Misty was explicitly undergoing. And while training could be considered short-term, a journey implies a far longer commitment.). I'll give you Clemont, however, though even THAT nearly ended in disaster due to apparently giving the opposite command to the robot than he intended to give before things got fixed up. As far as Fantina, my main problem with the whole thing with her is that the PIA had a strict Zero-Tolerance policy regarding Gyms (that was also a major factor in the conflict of Cerulean Blues), meaning the lengthy period she was away without even a substitute would have most likely resulted in the PIA shutting her gym down when enough complaints reached them (I'm extremely doubtful Ash and Co., or even Paul for that matter, were the only ones who got turned away). Either way, I'm still rewording it a bit to note that she took over as the primary Gym Leader due to her status as Gym Leader being made apparent as early as EP007, both English Dub and Japanese version, which her sisters didn't even deny, which you yourself pointed out (meaning the only real change was who effectively acted as the "face").
:::::And my point with the fanfic bit is defining precisely what "headcanon" is. And what I pointed out from the episodes is NOT "headcanon", as it's literally what's shown in the Episode, and what is said in there. If I were to go by my own personal interpretations on an episode, I'd even go as far as to state blatantly false stuff like saying Misty torched the gym when she left just because, hey, I imagined (and by definition interpreted) her doing that before she left, despite it never being shown or even alluded to (not to mention would blatantly be out of character for Misty as she's characterized in the anime). If I were to do that, THEN you can denounce me as engaging in "headcanon." Otherwise, don't. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 19:43, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
::::::I recognize that the situation is mostly resolved, but I still have quite a few things I need to reply to here.
::::::"''The first bit actually has quite a bit of relevance, since you stated Brock and Flint were both Gym Leaders, and I was pointing out that Brock WASN'T considered a Gym Leader by that episode (the Alola, Kanto Gym episode). They wouldn't repeatedly call him a "former" Gym Leader if he still was one, as former means he no longer is one in any capacity. And yes, they repeatedly stated "Former Gym Leader" in reference to Brock twice, I think three times tops in that episode. I counted it while watching it, and even took mental note of those bits when comparing Brock's battle with Misty's battle on Pokecommunity's forums. And bear in mind that episode was FAR more recent than DPS02. If they wanted Brock to still be the Gym Leader, in ANY capacity, they'd strictly refer to him as Gym Leader, NOT Former Gym Leader.''
::::::No, I said they were still considered Gym Leaders '''by the time of DPS02'''. I never claimed that they still ARE Gym Leaders (note that I never used present tense in my previous edits), so you bringing up SM is irrelevant to my point. My point was simply that Brock went on a long journey, came back, and was still considered one of the official Gym Leaders by DPS02 (again, I never claimed that he or Flint are still Gym Leaders in the present day).
::::::"''But, fine, we'll keep it to your rendition, but I'm doubtful they'd have Misty make that kind of emphasis regarding her resuming her journey if she was still an active gym leader (even with Lt. Surge, he had to specifically confer it onto Vasquez, and going by DPS02, such had to be done formally to the PIA's knowledge for it to stick considering what nearly happened with Forrest despite Brock specifically making him a Gym Leader after Family that Battles Together Stays Together. And BTW, a "substitute" would strictly be temporary, and a Pokemon Journey's considered a long-term engagement, so having Lt. Surge engage in a Journey while leaving a substitute doesn't make any sense at all. Besides, going by the summary for that episode, it specifically stated he was away for training, which doesn't quite indicate he went on a journey, the last of which Misty was explicitly undergoing. And while training could be considered short-term, a journey implies a far longer commitment.). I'll give you Clemont, however, though even THAT nearly ended in disaster due to apparently giving the opposite command to the robot than he intended to give before things got fixed up. As far as Fantina, my main problem with the whole thing with her is that the PIA had a strict Zero-Tolerance policy regarding Gyms (that was also a major factor in the conflict of Cerulean Blues), meaning the lengthy period she was away without even a substitute would have most likely resulted in the PIA shutting her gym down when enough complaints reached them (I'm extremely doubtful Ash and Co., or even Paul for that matter, were the only ones who got turned away).''"
::::::Okay, so I rewatched EP005 in both Japanese and English, and the reason why Brock couldn't travel is explicitly stated to be due to him having to take care of his siblings; it's never stated at any point that Gym Leaders can't travel.
::::::It's true that it's later stated in HS02 (Cerulean Blues) that a Gym will be shut down without a Gym Leader watching it, but that just means that there needs to be at least one Gym Leader present (granted, we know Fantina did get away with it, but that's besides the point). Given that there have been several Gyms in the anime with multiple Gym Leaders (Pewter/Cerulean/Vermilion/Mossdeep/Striaton/Lumiose/Stow-on-Side), there's nothing indicating that Gym Leaders can't travel given the right circumstances.
::::::"''Either way, I'm still rewording it a bit to note that she took over as the primary Gym Leader due to her status as Gym Leader being made apparent as early as EP007, both English Dub and Japanese version, which her sisters didn't even deny, which you yourself pointed out (meaning the only real change was who effectively acted as the "face").''"
::::::Yeah, that's completely fine with me. I have no issues with that.
::::::"''And my point with the fanfic bit is defining precisely what "headcanon" is. And what I pointed out from the episodes is NOT "headcanon", as it's literally what's shown in the Episode, and what is said in there. If I were to go by my own personal interpretations on an episode, I'd even go as far as to state blatantly false stuff like saying Misty torched the gym when she left just because, hey, I imagined (and by definition interpreted) her doing that before she left, despite it never being shown or even alluded to (not to mention would blatantly be out of character for Misty as she's characterized in the anime). If I were to do that, THEN you can denounce me as engaging in "headcanon." Otherwise, don't.''"
::::::Extreme examples like what you're trying to present aren't the only form of headcanon. This right here is your own speculation: "Besides, no one talks like that about a position they simply were on temporary leave from (I sure don't). That sounds more like the kind of talk a guy gives when he's about to quit his job for a better one."
::::::I talked to the admins about it and they stated that her wording was ambiguous (hence why they approved of my wording since it has less speculation). One user even said that they don't view it any differently from the other times when Misty left her sisters in charge of the Gym in the past (and they also believe that it's basically the same situation as Vermilion Gym's). [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 10:25, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
:::::::Even though Forrest was specifically conferred Gym Leader by Brock at the end of A Family that Battles Together Stays Together and, heck, Lola's whole ANTICS in that episode with Flint barely offering much resistance? And apparently there was little actual issue between that episode up to DPS02 (which if we were to take the whole thing at face value means Lola WASN'T even a legal gym leader when she did those things, which was even WORSE)? Then again, the entire PIA issue seems to be badly done overall (aside from the whole Fantina bit, which going by the amount of episodes Ash wasn't able to face her, someone definitely would have ratted her out by then, since Ash definitely couldn't have been the sole trainer to try and face her even if we argue there's more than eight gyms in Sinnoh, we also have the issue of Lola managing to very blatantly violate the "Unsafe" and "Uncool" rules that would allow for automatic shutdown according to Cerulean Blues and somehow getting away with it. And we know they had to have passed Pewter Gym by that time since Nurse Joy made it VERY clear that Cerulean Gym was the last stop for her at Kanto).
::::::::If there was no issue with Gym Leaders traveling, Misty wouldn't have even NEEDED to stay at the Gym after Daisy and the others returned. And please don't give me the whole "they're incompetent" excuse. So was Lola and Flint (and arguably Forrest since despite being the actual Gym Leader didn't seem to be able to stop Lola from having the gym given an even WORSE paint job), in fact, they're so incompetent going by Family that Battles Together Stays Together they made Misty's sisters look like they actually knew what they were doing, yet that never stopped Brock from still pursuing his goal at the time. And that's not even getting into the issue with Candace where she's pretty much stuck with being a gym leader and hopes to actually travel (based on that episode with her and Zoey). And I think the fact that Fantina got away with it under EXTREMELY implausible circumstances is sign enough that it's just a badly developed plot point (much like how, going by Cerulean Blues' Zero Tolerance Policy for "Unclean, Unsafe, Uncool", Pewter Gym would have been automatically shut down via Lola's antics even before Brock returned, yet clearly wasn't).
::::::::And you ARE aware that there's plenty of stuff on various articles that, going by your definition are "headcanon", right? And that's not even counting Shipping articles. If anything, your definition of headcanon is the one that's extreme, since it seems to indicate the characters have to explicitly state it in precise terminology or else it's pure headcanon, even when there's a thing called inference. To give an analogy, using your argument, Zaslav being eaten by his own dogs in the ending of The Most Dangerous Game is "headcanon" just because they don't explicitly state/show it, even though the ending clearly implies it with the narrator mentioning he never slept in a more comfortable bed (the deal earlier was that the narrator and Zaslav were to have a duel, and that the winner will sleep in the bed for the night while the loser gets to be killed and fed to Zaslav's hunting dogs). If we were to follow your definition of headcanon, there wouldn't even BE a wiki since literally everything would qualify as "headcanon" outside of an extreme limited few exceptions that are explicit. And considering the mods were the same ones who tried to push one of the characters as a trans allegory despite even The Pokémon Company denying it a little while back, I'm not too trusting of the mods right now. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 12:12, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::"''If there was no issue with Gym Leaders traveling, Misty wouldn't have even NEEDED to stay at the Gym after Daisy and the others returned. And please don't give me the whole "they're incompetent" excuse. So was Lola and Flint (and arguably Forrest since despite being the actual Gym Leader didn't seem to be able to stop Lola from having the gym given an even WORSE paint job), in fact, they're so incompetent going by Family that Battles Together Stays Together they made Misty's sisters look like they actually knew what they were doing, yet that never stopped Brock from still pursuing his goal at the time.''"
:::::::::It's not even an excuse, though: Misty's sisters ARE incompetent. Outside of that, Misty could have simply felt comfortable with running the Gym even after her sisters came back. Either way, there's nothing to indicate that she was forced to remain as Gym Leader after they came back.
:::::::::"''And that's not even getting into the issue with Candace where she's pretty much stuck with being a gym leader and hopes to actually travel (based on that episode with her and Zoey).''"
:::::::::She has no one to run the Gym in her place, so she can't travel. There's nothing strange about that. We've gone through this already.
:::::::::"''And I think the fact that Fantina got away with it under EXTREMELY implausible circumstances is sign enough that it's just a badly developed plot point (much like how, going by Cerulean Blues' Zero Tolerance Policy for "Unclean, Unsafe, Uncool", Pewter Gym would have been automatically shut down via Lola's antics even before Brock returned, yet clearly wasn't).''"
:::::::::If that's the case, then it still wouldn't really discredit anything regarding what I said about traveling, since the writers can simply make them travel whenever they feel like it. Either way, there's nothing stating that Gym Leaders are forced to retire if they wish to travel.
:::::::::"''And you ARE aware that there's plenty of stuff on various articles that, going by your definition are "headcanon", right? And that's not even counting Shipping articles. If anything, your definition of headcanon is the one that's extreme, since it seems to indicate the characters have to explicitly state it in precise terminology or else it's pure headcanon, even when there's a thing called inference. To give an analogy, using your argument, Zaslav being eaten by his own dogs in the ending of The Most Dangerous Game is "headcanon" just because they don't explicitly state/show it, even though the ending clearly implies it with the narrator mentioning he never slept in a more comfortable bed (the deal earlier was that the narrator and Zaslav were to have a duel, and that the winner will sleep in the bed for the night while the loser gets to be killed and fed to Zaslav's hunting dogs). If we were to follow your definition of headcanon, there wouldn't even BE a wiki since literally everything would qualify as "headcanon" outside of an extreme limited few exceptions that are explicit.''"
:::::::::I can't help but think you're being willfully ignorant here. You know very well that the example you provided is a false equivalence and not even remotely comparable to what I said.
:::::::::"''And considering the mods were the same ones who tried to push one of the characters as a trans allegory despite even The Pokémon Company denying it a little while back, I'm not too trusting of the mods right now.''"
:::::::::I have no idea what you're even trying to claim, but I will reiterate that plenty of people watched the episode and never got the impression that Misty "quit" being a Gym Leader. The impression you got is different from the impression other people got; that's why it's ambiguous. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 18:33, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::Again, so were Lola and Flint (for goodness sakes, both Grating Spaces and A Family that Battles Together Stays Together literally had Brock having to clean up their messes, and Grating Spaces was even worse as despite Forrest being the ACTUAL gym leader, he couldn't even stop Lola from tarnishing the gym YET again, and that time by her hiring very shady painters who, BTW, later turned out to be Team Rocket in an attempt at burglarizing the gym. And did I mention that Lola's cruddy decorations to the gym AND her nearly drowning several Rock Pokemon out of sheer idiocy in trying to convert their training holes into a swimming pool? Both instances were blatant violations of "unsafe" and "uncool", which going by Cerulean Blues would have made for automatic shutdown ESPECIALLY if the Gym Leader was present during an inspection. If anything, they were SO bad at running the gym that Misty's sisters were FAR more reliable by comparison. Say what you will about Misty's sisters, at least they didn't outright vandalize the gym, explicitly treat gym leading as a disposable hobby like yodeling, or nearly KILL their own Pokemon just to create something they can't thrive in, or for that matter enable it to the degree that they came close to getting their gym burglarized as a result.), yet Brock didn't quit journeying with Ash and co. DESPITE the very blatant evidence that they can't even run a gym responsibly TWICE. And going by DPS02 and how only Flint and Brock were explicitly recognized as Gym Leaders, that makes Lola's antics in both episodes even WORSE.
::::::::::As far as Misty feeling comfortable about it, considering how Daisy had to outright threaten Misty with handing out badges if she didn't return in A Real Cleffa Hanger, and how long she took as it is to even return to Cerulean City (we know thanks to Episodes 1-7 that it takes a little over two weeks, three weeks tops to travel from Pallet Town to Mt. Moon), it's pretty obvious that Misty didn't feel comfortable about it at all. Want someone actually FEELING comfortable about it? Try Jason Fox from FoxTrot, who's so comfortable with School he was pretty much a black sheep amongst his siblings that he hated being away from School even for vacation. Even in the Alola, Kanto arc, Misty commented about her sisters departure in a manner that indicated she was NOT happy about running the gym, especially while they were absent. In other words, had Misty truly been comfortable running the gym, Daisy wouldn't have even NEEDED to threaten Misty to get her to return.
::::::::::And if everything was literally determinable by the writer's whims, no rules at all, there wouldn't even be a point to this wiki in the first place, at least regarding the anime.
::::::::::And what I was referring to with that last comment was [https://boundingintocomics.com/2022/10/18/pokemon-scarlet-violet-official-sources-deconfirm-social-media-speculation-that-new-gym-leader-iono-is-non-binary-and-transgender/ the owner of Bulbapedia, aka the guy those mods answered to, claiming that Iono was non-binary, literally less than a day before Nintendo personally shot down that theory]. And it's not even the first time Bulbapedia got humiliated like that, as apparently someone know as Metokur exposed you guys as promoting pedophilia. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 20:00, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

User talk:Weedle Mchairybug

2024-06-16T12:12:03Z

Weedle Mchairybug: /* Sensational Sisters */

Talking Pokémon

2024-06-15T20:36:56Z

Weedle Mchairybug: /* Trivia */ Adding this detail, since apparently various species of Pokemon have their own dialect in that novel.

'''Talking Pokémon''' are {{OBP|Pokémon|species}} who can speak a human language. The human language itself is not clearly depicted, and all people in the [[Pokémon world]] seem to speak one common language, which is always referred to just as ''human language'' (however, since [[Pokémon Diamond and Pearl Versions|Generation IV]], it is possible to collect [[foreign Pokédex entries]], and there are NPCs who speak foreign languages). While it appears that all Pokémon can understand human speech, very few can communicate with humans, except via body language. There are exceptions to this, however, depending on the version of the Pokémon world being depicted.

==In the core series games==
===Pokémon Red, Blue, Yellow, FireRed, and LeafGreen===
In {{3v2|Red|Blue|Yellow}} and their {{game3|FireRed and LeafGreen|Generation III remakes|s}}, {{OBP|Copycat|character}}'s {{p|Doduo}} is able to speak a line of human language when approached. Also, Bill, when transformed into a Pokémon, can speak human language at [[Sea Cottage|his house]] on {{rt|25|Kanto|Cerulean Cape}}. In addition, the {{p|Marowak}}'s {{OBP|Marowak|ghost|ghost}} can talk.

===Pokémon Gold, Silver, Crystal, HeartGold, and SoulSilver===
In [[Generation II]] and their [[Pokémon HeartGold and SoulSilver Versions|Generation IV remakes]], a {{p|Murkrow}} owned by [[Team Rocket]] tells the {{player}} the password to the generator room in the [[Team Rocket HQ]].

===Pokémon Ruby, Sapphire, Emerald, Omega Ruby, and Alpha Sapphire===
In {{3v2|Ruby|Sapphire|Emerald}} and their {{pkmn|Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire|Generation VI remakes}}, [[Mr. Stone]] wants to be able to communicate with {{OBP|Pokémon|species}}, so he started a project for [[Devon Corporation]] intending to build a translation device for Pokémon; however, not much progress has been made.

===Pokémon Diamond, Pearl, and Platinum===
In {{3v2|Diamond|Pearl|Platinum}}, while {{p|Darkrai}} is not able to speak directly, it is presumed that the man inside the {{DL|Canalave City|Harbor Inn}} is an illusion created by Darkrai, through which it is able to communicate with the player during the [[Member Card]] event.

===Pokémon Black 2 and White 2===
In {{2v2|Black|White|2}}, if the player visits [[Lostlorn Forest]], a {{p|Zoroark}} is disguised as a {{tc|Backpacker}} who talks to the player and gives them {{TM|95|Snarl}} before dispelling its illusion and leaving. Also, in [[Pokéstar Studios]], the final film of the [[Love and Battles Series]] has a talking {{p|Smeargle}}, and the [[Timegate Traveler Series]] features a talking {{p|Ledian}}.

===Pokémon Sun, Moon, Ultra Sun, and Ultra Moon===
In {{pkmn|Sun and Moon}} and {{pkmn|Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon}}, {{p|Rotom}} can speak while inhabiting the [[Rotom Pokédex]]. In Sun and Moon only, {{p|Tapu Koko}} also speaks to the player through their [[Z-Ring]] before challenging them to a battle at the end of the game. A {{p|Mimikyu}} at the [[Aether House]] tells the player it will curse them when spoken to as well. An {{p|Oranguru}} in the [[Konikoni City]] {{DL|Konikoni City|apparel shop}} also tells the player to "Gu do it!"

===Pokémon Sword and Shield===
In {{pkmn|Sword and Shield}}, a {{p|Honedge}} in the {{DL|Wyndon|Rose of the Rondelands}} hotel will bid the player welcome if approached.

In Sword and Shield's [[The Crown Tundra]] {{FB|Pokémon Sword and Shield|Expansion Pass}}, {{ga|Calyrex}} is revealed to have the ability to speak through humans. It frequently takes over [[Peony]] in order to communicate with the player.

===Pokémon Legends: Arceus===
In [[Pokémon Legends: Arceus]], {{p|Arceus}} speaks the human language in what seems to be Early Modern English. The [[lake guardians]] also telepathically speak to the player during the game's climax. {{p|Dialga}} and {{p|Palkia}} are also capable of telepathy, although they only speak to [[Adaman]] and [[Irida]] respectively.

===Pokédex entries===
{{p|Chatot}}'s [[Pokédex]] entries state that it is being able to speak the human language. This relates to its [[signature move]] {{m|Chatter}}.

{{p|Latias}}'s [[Pokédex]] entries state that it can telepathically speak with humans.

The Pokédex entries for {{p|Ninetales}}, {{p|Lapras}}, {{p|Latias}}, {{p|Latios}}, {{p|Lucario}}, and {{p|Magearna}} mention their ability to understand human speech, leaving it unclear as to whether other Pokémon can understand it as well.

==In the side series games==
===Pokémon XD: Gale of Darkness===
Prior to the events of {{Pokémon XD}}, [[Dr. Kaminko]] developed a device that was meant to translate a Pokémon's speech, but it failed and was scrapped. A major post-game quest details the {{player}}'s efforts to undo its effects when it is accidentally released by [[Chobin]] and causes Pokémon around [[Orre]] to lose their voice.

==In the spin-off games==
===Hey You, Pikachu!===
In [[Hey You, Pikachu!]], the game centers around using a special device called a PokéHelper that translates certain human-language words into something wild Pikachu can understand. In this game's spiritual successor, [[Pokémon Channel]], various Pokémon appear as hosts and stars of TV shows, with their speech subtitled into the local human language.

===Pokémon Ranger: Shadows of Almia===
In [[Pokémon Ranger: Shadows of Almia]], certain Pokémon are capable of using telepathy, such as {{p|Regigigas}}.

===Pokémon Mystery Dungeon series===
In the [[Pokémon Mystery Dungeon series|Mystery Dungeon games]], all Pokémon can talk. This includes the player, who was transformed into a Pokémon. However, since there are no human characters in the Mystery Dungeon games, it is entirely possible that these Pokémon are not, in fact, speaking human language, but rather their own Pokémon language, which the player can now understand as a result of becoming a Pokémon themselves.

===PokéPark series===
In the PokéPark games, all Pokémon can talk. However, like in the Mystery Dungeon games, there are no human characters in the game, suggesting that the Pokémon are simply speaking Pokémon language in between each other, which the player character is able to understand due to being a Pokémon as well. This is further supported by all the Pokémon having their voices from the anime and their speech only appearing in text boxes.

===Detetive Pikachu series===
In {{OBP|Detective Pikachu|video game}}, the player character, [[Tim Goodman]], is partners with a talking {{OBP|Detective Pikachu|character}}. However, only the player seems to be able to hear Pikachu's talking voice. In addition, the game also features a {{OBP|Mewtwo|Detective Pikachu}}, which is able to talk via telepathy. In the sequel game, [[Detective Pikachu Returns]], Pokémon speech can also be understood via subtitles when heard from Pikachu's perspective. In addition, during the game's climax, [[Charles Merloch]] is able to speak when he fuses his mind with the body of a {{p|Deoxys}}.

===Pokémon Masters EX===
In {{g|Masters EX}}, {{mas|Leon}}'s {{form|Calyrex|Ice Rider}} {{p|Calyrex}} briefly takes over {{mas|Sawyer}}'s body during the [[Winter Wishes]] [[story event]] to talk to Leon through him.

==In the anime==
===Understanding of human language===
Although ''[[EP195|The Poké Spokesman]]'' states that Pokémon cannot directly understand human speech, this is contradicted by many other episodes before and since in the anime. Moreover, judging, for instance, from {{AP|Larvitar}} in ''[[EP258|Hatch Me If You Can]]'', they are able to do this immediately after hatching, without having to learn.

The anime generally does not focus on language problems, so as a result, there is some confusion about [[Pokémon language]] and the ability of Pokémon to understand humans. Although it is obvious that all Pokémon can understand each other, {{MTR}} in ''[[EP070|Go West Young Meowth]]'' once mentions ''Meowth language'', and Jessie in ''[[AG084|Who's Flying Now?]]'' mentions ''Chimecho language'', so it is not clear whether there is a common Pokémon language, or every species has its own.

As far as human language is concerned, {{MTR}} in the same episode was shown learning ''pronunciation'', not the language itself, which implies that all Pokémon have innate knowledge of human language, so they can understand human speech, and only have to learn how to pronounce its sounds, or be able to establish telepathic contacts to speak. Despite this, Misty in ''[[EP239|Whichever Way the Wind Blows]]'' once asked {{MTR}} to translate her words to other Pokémon, and May taught her {{TP|May|Bulbasaur}} the meaning of the word ''town'' in ''[[AG073|Grass Hysteria!]]''. Therefore, this ability of Pokémon is not well-defined in anime canon.

===Talking Pokémon===
While every Pokémon in the anime can understand human speech, very few can talk, although many {{pkmn2|Legendary}} and [[Mythical Pokémon]] can. In most cases though, talking Pokémon speak through telepathy.

{{MTR}} is the most famous talking Pokémon, and the one that makes the most appearances. His clone in ''[[M01|Mewtwo Strikes Back]]'' and ''[[Mewtwo Returns]]'', however, cannot speak, the reason being Meowth wasn't born knowing how to speak human language; he only learned it through hard work.

Although [[Ash's Pikachu]] does not speak in the regular anime, he has talked once in ''[[M20|I Choose You!]]'', when {{OBP|Ash Ketchum|M20|Ash}} seemed to die from taking the attack from various Pokémon late in the movie.

{| class="roundtable sortable" style="margin:auto; text-align:center; background:#{{Dark color}}; border:3px solid #{{Black color}}" width=850px
|-
! style="background-color: #{{Dark color light}}; {{roundytl|7px}}" colspan=2 | Pokémon
! style="background-color: #{{Dark color light}}" | Method of communication
! style="background-color: #{{Dark color light}}; {{roundytr|7px}}" class="unsortable" | Featured episode
|-
| width=150px | {{MSP/HOME|0052|Meowth}}
| width=150px | {{MTR}}
| Human speech
| width=200px | Most episodes from ''[[EP002|Pokémon Emergency!]]'' to ''[[JN147|The Rainbow and the Pokémon Master!]]''
|-
| {{MSP/HOME|0025|Pikachu}}{{MSP/HOME|0001|Bulbasaur}}{{MSP/HOME|0004|Charmander}}{{MSP/HOME|0007|Squirtle}}{{MSP/HOME|0023|Ekans}}{{MSP/HOME|0109|Koffing}}
| {{Ash}}'s and {{TRT}}'s Pokémon
| Subtitles (the lines were read by the narrator in the Danish, French, Italian{{tt|*|Mediaset dub}}, Polish, and Swedish dubs, and by a different voice-over for each Pokémon in the Latin American Spanish dub; no translations at all were provided in Czech and Slovakian dubs)
| ''[[EP017|Island of the Giant Pokémon]]''
|-
| {{MSP/HOME|0092|Gastly}}
| {{p|Gastly}}
| Human speech
| ''[[EP020|The Ghost of Maiden's Peak]]''
|-
| {{MSP/HOME|0131|Lapras}}
| [[Santa Claus]]'s {{p|Lapras}}
| Telepathy
| ''[[Holiday Hi-Jynx]]''
|-
| {{MSP/HOME|0150|Mewtwo}}
| {{OBP|Mewtwo|M01}}
| Telepathy
| ''[[M01|Mewtwo Strikes Back]]'' ''[[Mewtwo Returns]]'' ''[[M22|Mewtwo Strikes Back—Evolution]]'' ''[[JN046|Getting More Than You Battled For!]]''
|-
| {{MSP/HOME|0249|Lugia}}
| {{OBP|Lugia|M02}}
| Telepathy
| ''[[M02|The Power of One]]''
|-
| {{MSP/HOME|0199|Slowking}}
| {{OBP|Slowking|M02}}
| Human speech
| ''[[M02|The Power of One]]''
|-
| {{MSP/HOME|0244|Entei}}
| {{OBP|Entei|M03}} (as an embodiment of [[Molly Hale|Molly]]'s wishes)
| Human speech (the English dub added an echo filter to imply that Entei's capacity for speech was actually telepathy, while the Japanese version had it speaking normally)
| ''[[M03|Spell of the Unown: Entei]]''
|-
|{{MSP/HOME|0016|Pidgey}}{{MSP/HOME|0019|Rattata}}{{MSP/HOME|0043|Oddish}}
|{{p|Pidgey}}, {{p|Rattata}}, and {{p|Oddish}}
| Flashback. Speech understood from the perspective of [[Simon]].
|''[[EP195|The Poké Spokesman]]''
|-
| {{MSP/HOME|0038|Ninetales}}
| {{p|Ninetales}}
| Spoke through an illusionary girl named [[Lokoko]]
| ''[[EP232|Just Waiting On a Friend]]''
|-
| {{MSP/HOME|0246|Larvitar}}
| [[Ash's Larvitar]]
| Human speech (while in the [[Unown Dimension]])
| ''[[EP263|Address Unown]]''
|-
| {{MSP/HOME|0385|Jirachi}}
| {{OBP|Jirachi|M06}}
| Telepathy
| ''[[M06|Jirachi: Wish Maker]]''
|-
| {{MSP/HOME|0280|Ralts}}
| {{DL|Max|Ralts|Max's Ralts}}
| Telepathy
| ''[[AG109|Do I Hear a Ralts?]]''
|-
| {{MSP/HOME|0448|Lucario}}
| {{OBP|Lucario|M08}}
| Telepathy
| ''[[M08|Lucario and the Mystery of Mew]]''
|-
| {{MSP/HOME|0490|Manaphy}}
| {{OBP|Manaphy|M09}}
| Able to say a few words such as "happy" and "I love you"
| ''[[M09|Pokémon Ranger and the Temple of the Sea]]''
|-
| {{MSP/HOME|0441|Chatot}}
| {{p|Chatot}}
| Repeats human language
| Several episodes
|-
| {{MSP/HOME|0491|Darkrai}}
| {{OBP|Darkrai|M10}}
| Telepathy
| ''[[M10|The Rise of Darkrai]]''
|-
| {{MSP/HOME|0492|Shaymin}}
| {{OBP|Shaymin|M11}}
| Telepathy
| ''[[M11|Giratina and the Sky Warrior]]''
|-
| {{MSP/HOME|0493|Arceus}}
| {{OBP|Arceus|M12}}
| Human speech
| ''[[M12|Arceus and the Jewel of Life]]''
|-
| {{MSP/HOME|0570|Zorua}}
| {{OBP|Zorua|M13}}
| Telepathy
| ''[[M13|Zoroark: Master of Illusions]]''
|-
| {{MSP/HOME|0562|Yamask}}
| {{p|Yamask}}
| Spoke through {{an|Cilan}} while possessing him with its mask
| ''[[BW014|A Night in the Nacrene City Museum!]]''
|-
|{{MSP/HOME|0644|Zekrom}}{{MSP/HOME|0643|Reshiram}}
| {{OBP|Zekrom|M14}} {{OBP|Reshiram|M14}}
| Telepathy
| ''[[M14|White—Victini and Zekrom]]'' ''[[M14|Black—Victini and Reshiram]]''
|-
| {{MSP/HOME|0638|Cobalion}}{{MSP/HOME|0639|Terrakion}}{{MSP/HOME|0640|Virizion}}{{MSP/HOME|0646|Kyurem}}{{MSP/HOME|0647|Keldeo}}
| {{OBP|Kyurem|M15}} {{OBP|Swords of Justice|M15}} including {{OBP|Keldeo|M15}}
| Telepathy
| ''[[M15|Kyurem VS. The Sword of Justice]]''
|-
| {{MSP/HOME|0649 s|Genesect}}{{MSP/HOME|0649R|Genesect}}{{MSP/HOME|0649Y|Genesect}}{{MSP/HOME|0649W|Genesect}}{{MSP/HOME|0649B|Genesect}}{{MSP/HOME|0150|Mewtwo}}
| [[Genesect Army]] {{OBP|Mewtwo|M16}}
| Telepathy
| ''[[M16|Genesect and the Legend Awakened]]''
|-
| {{MSP/HOME|0571|Zoroark}}
| {{p|Zoroark}}
| Spoke by {{a|Illusion|changing its form}} into a [[Nurse Joy]]
| ''[[BW127|The Island of Illusions!]]''
|-
| {{MSP/HOME|0719|Diancie}}{{MSP/HOME|0703|Carbink}}{{MSP/HOME|0716|Xerneas}}
| {{an|Diancie}} [[Carbink servants]] (Merrick & Dace) {{OBP|Xerneas|M17}}
| Telepathy
| ''[[M17|Diancie and the Cocoon of Destruction]]''
|-
| {{MSP/HOME|0052|Meowth}}
| [[Mirror World]] [[Mirror Team Rocket|counterpart]] of {{MTR}}
| Human speech
| ''[[XY037|The Cave of Mirrors!]]''
|-
| {{MSP/HOME|0720|Hoopa}}
| {{an|Hoopa}}
| Telepathy, human speech
| ''[[M18|Hoopa and the Clash of Ages]]''
|-
| {{MSP/HOME|0721|Volcanion}}
| {{OBP|Volcanion|M19}}
| Telepathy
| ''[[M19|Volcanion and the Mechanical Marvel]]''
|-
| {{MSP/HOME|0660|Diggersby}}{{MSP/HOME|0675|Pangoro}}{{MSP/HOME|0655|Delphox}}{{MSP/HOME|0656|Froakie}}{{MSP/HOME|0652|Chesnaught}}
| {{TP|Clemont|Diggersby|Bunnelby}} {{TP|Serena|Pangoro|Pancham}} {{TP|Serena|Delphox|Braixen}} {{AP|Froakie|Greninja}} {{TP|Clemont|Chesnaught|Chespin}}
| Human speech during {{AP|Pikachu}} and {{MTR}}'s dream {{a|Bad Dreams|created}} by {{p|Darkrai}}
| ''[[XY098|Dream a Little Dream from Me!]]''
|-
| {{MSP/HOME|0718|Zygarde}}
| {{p|Zygarde}} Cores [[Squishy]] and [[Z2]]
| Telepathy
| Throughout ''[[S19|Pokémon the Series: XYZ]]''
|-
| {{ArtP|479|Rotom|form=-Pokédex}}
| {{an|Rotom Pokédex}}
| Human speech (through the Pokédex's functions)
| Throughout ''[[Pokémon the Series: Sun & Moon]]''
|-
| {{MSP/HOME|0804|Naganadel}}
| [[Ultra Beasts (anime)#Ultra Sapce Naganadel|Naganadel]]
| Telepathy
| ''[[SM089|The Prism Between Light and Darkness!]]''
|-
| {{MSP/HOME|0798|Kartana}}
| {{p|Kartana}}
| Reverse human speech
| ''[[SM124|Living on the Cutting Edge!]]''
|-
| {{ArtP|479|Rotom|form=-Phone}}
| [[Rotom Phone]]s
| Human speech (through the smartphone's functions)
| Throughout ''[[Pokémon Journeys: The Series]]''
|-
| {{MSP/HOME|0249|Lugia}}
| {{OBP|Lugia|recurring}}
| Telepathy
| ''[[JN002|Legends? Go! Friends? Go!]]'' ''[[JN136|This Could be the Start of Something Big!]]''
|-
| {{MSP/HOME|0893|Zarude}}{{MSP/HOME|0893D|Zarude}}
| {{p|Zarude}}
| Speech understood from the perspective of the Zarude and {{OBP|Koko|M23}}
| ''[[M23|Secrets of the Jungle]]''
|-
| {{MSP/HOME|0052|Meowth}}
| [[Alternate World Team Rocket|Alternate World counterpart]] of {{MTR}}
| Human speech
| ''[[JN089|The Gates of Warp!]]'' ''[[JN090|Showdown at the Gates of Warp!]]''
|-
| {{MSP/HOME|0931Y|Squawkabilly}}
| [[Lucca]]'s {{p|Squawkabilly}}
| Repeats human language
| ''[[HZ012|The Future I Choose]]''
|}

==In the manga==
===Magical Pokémon Journey and Pokémon Chamo-Chamo ☆ Pretty ♪===
Some Pokémon, such as {{OBP|Clefairy|MPJ}} and {{OBP|Squirtle|MPJ}}, can speak human language, although most Pokémon language is translated for the reader's ease (indicated by a different font in the speech bubbles). They are easily understood by humans just the same.

===Pokémon Adventures===
===={{MangaArc|Red, Green & Blue}}====
In ''[[PS009|...But Fearow Itself!]]'', when {{adv|Bill}} was accidentally fused with a {{p|Rattata}}, he was still able to talk and ask {{adv|Red}} to aid him in reversing the transformation.

===={{MangaArc|Yellow}}====
In ''[[PS089|The Might of... Metapod?!]]'', {{adv|Yellow}} was able to use her powers to read the mind of [[Lance's Dragonite]] and hear its thoughts.

===={{MangaArc|FireRed & LeafGreen}}====
In ''[[PS284|Red, Green, Blue and Mewtwo Too]]'', {{adv|Mewtwo}} revealed to Red that it had gained the ability to talk via telepathy after leaving [[Blaine]] in ''[[PS162|Heckled by Hitmontop]]'', although it usually only lets its voice be heard by people whom it trusts.

In ''[[PS299|Distant Relation Deoxys]]'', {{DL|Deoxys (Adventures)|Organism No. 2}} was revealed to be able to use its {{t|Psychic}} powers to make its words appear on electronic screens, such as those on [[Pokédex]]es.

===={{MangaArc|Emerald}}====
In ''[[PS307|Gotcha Where I Wantcha, Glalie]]'', it was revealed that {{adv|Eon duo|Latios and Latias}} are also able to speak via telepathy.

===={{MangaArc|Black & White}}====
In ''[[PS515|The Shadow Triad]]'', the {{adv|Swords of Justice}} and [[Kelden|Keldeo]] were revealed to be able to speak telepathically, although it was [[PS542|later]] revealed that humans can only hear this speech under certain conditions, such as by being at the [[Abyssal Ruins]].

===={{MangaArc|Black 2 & White 2}}====
In ''[[PS544|Dream World]]'', {{adv|Black}}'s {{DL|Tao trio (Adventures)|Reshiram}} was able to speak telepathically while inside the [[Pokémon Dream World]].

===={{MangaArc|X & Y}}====
In ''[[PS577|Quilladin Stands]]'', [[Xerxer|Xerneas]] was revealed to be able to use telepathy to communicate with humans as well.

===={{MangaArc|Sun, Moon, Ultra Sun & Ultra Moon}}====
In ''[[PASM07|The Final Match and a Surprising Finale!]]'', the {{p|Rotom}} that {{adv|Moon}} had brought with her to [[Alola]] was revealed to have entered her new Pokédex and become the {{adv|Rotom Pokédex}}. Through the Pokédex, Rotom had gained the ability to speak human language.

===={{MangaArc|Sword & Shield}}====
In [[PASS38]], {{p|Calyrex}} was revealed to be able to possess people and talk through them, doing so with [[Peony]].

===Pokémon Gold & Silver: The Golden Boys===
In ''[[GB19|The Truth About The Mysterious Whirl Islands!!]]'', {{GnB|Gold}} and {{GnB|Chris}} encountered a talking {{p|Slowking}} living at the [[Whirl Islands]]. In the same chapter, they also encountered {{p|Lugia}}, which could talk via telepathy.

===Pokémon Gotta Catch 'Em All===
[[Shu]] can understand his Pokémon's language by using a special headset device called an [[Income]].

===Pokémon Pocket Monsters===
All the Pokémon in [[Pokémon Pocket Monsters]] can talk, except for {{TP|Red|Red's Pikachu|Pikachu (Pocket Monsters)}}.

===Pokémon Zensho===
In ''[[PZ04|Vermilion City]]'', {{zensho|Satoshi}} encountered and {{pkmn2|caught}} a talking {{p|Nidoran♂}}, who soon turned out to be [[Bill]], who had accidentally gotten himself fused with a Nidoran♂ during an experiment. Afterwards, Satoshi helped Bill to become normal again.

In ''[[PZ07|Saffron City]]'', [[Sabrina]] was revealed to own a unique telepathic {{p|Lapras}} that could communicate with humans. After Satoshi had helped her save Lapras from [[Team Rocket]], she entrusted Lapras to him as a sign of gratitude.

===Pokémon Newspaper Strip===
In the [[Pokémon Newspaper Strip]], several strips are centered around Pokémon talking to each other. However, humans only hear Pokémon repeating their names (such as "Pika Pikachu!") and can't understand their speech.

==Trivia==
* The move {{m|Mirror Move}}, named ''Parrot Mimicry'' in Japanese, is based on ability of these birds to repeat human speech.
* In an interview with NintendoLife<ref>[https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2013/09/interview_junichi_masuda_and_hironobu_yoshida_discuss_pokemon_x_and_y_mega_evolutions_and_the_2ds NintendoLife Interview] Junichi Masuda: ''Well… Now I have to think of something that, you know, won’t be used by competitors! [laughs] But one thing that I wanted to put in that didn’t quite make it was a translating machine for Pokémon cries, to find out what they’re saying. So you have this machine, and when a Pokémon cries out something, text would appear telling you exactly what that Pokémon is saying.'' Hironobu Yoshida: ''Really? I never knew!'' Junichi Masuda: ''Yes, I really wanted to put that in, but then thinking about the amount of text that we would have to include, with now over 600 Pokémon, it would be a really big task. This could be something that might appear in future games, but it sadly didn’t make X and Y.''</ref>, [[Junichi Masuda]] mentions that a Pokémon cry translation machine was considered for {{g|X and Y}}. However, it was scrapped due to the amount of text that would be needed to support the over 600 species of Pokémon at the time.
*In ''Pokémon the Animation'', when Meowth translates what Pikachu was saying, Jessie and James express surprise at his being able to do so, with his explaining he "practiced hard to do that", implying that each species of Pokémon has its own language, and that not all Pokémon understand each other.<ref>https://cindysuke.tumblr.com/post/34817930237/the-facts-about-pokemon-world-lol</ref>

==References==
{{reflist}}

[[Category:Pokémon world]]

[[it:Pokémon parlanti]]

User talk:Weedle Mchairybug

2024-06-15T20:01:14Z

Weedle Mchairybug: /* Sensational Sisters */

User talk:Weedle Mchairybug

2024-06-15T19:53:13Z

Weedle Mchairybug: /* Sensational Sisters */

Psst. Capitalize your sentences. Don't capitalize random words that aren't important. Follow the {{bp|manual of style}} and good ol' English grammar. And accent that é in Pokémon! '''[[User:TTEchidna|TTE]][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 23:23, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

As {{u|TTEchidna}} said, Capitalize your sentences! And where did you get the idea that Misty was the champion of the Togepi competition? IT WASN'T REAL! It was a trap set by Team Rocket so that they could steal her Togepi for [[Colonel Hansen]]. --[[Special:Contributions/Kenji-girl|☆]][[Tracey Sketchit|ケンジ]][[User:Kenji-girl|ガール]] 21:53, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

WOW!!! Though your new, you put up a very good, strong point in arguements! I congratulate you on that! You should start making edits on regular pages, not just talk pages. Good Job!!! --'''[[User:Theryguy512|Theryguy]][[User:Theryguy512/Contribution Page|5]][[User:Theryguy512/Mission Page|1]][[User:Theryguy512/Games|2]]''' 22:21, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

== Errors ==

I really don't think they are errors, Ash has a long journey that's still going, you can't expect him to remember every moment that happened to him. [[User:TheBlazikenMaster|TheBlazikenMaster]] 15:00, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, yeah, but May's was just beginning and the Rubello convention was just after the Fallabor contest, so that same logic can't be applied there. And anyways, it's not that they HAVE to remember everything, but that doesn't mean they should act as though they never heard of it. I mean, that's like forgetting the day of your birth. Besides, how can he forget about a pokemon he owned?![[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 15:16, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
:You do realize its just a tv show. So the writers forgot to have him remember something. Thats an error.[[User:Darth Cookie Monster|Emperor's Cookies]] 15:20, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
::Ok, it fit under error, but just memory error. I still think it's not error as in "senseless". Ok, I am keeping those in the articles as it might look interesting. But I still think the word "forget" is a better way to describe it than "acted like he never heard of...", since that's what's happening, if you act like something never happens the best way to describe it is with the word forget. I am not planning on removing from [[EP233]] or [[AG072]], don't worry. But I still think the word forget is a better way to word it than "acts like he's never heard of". Besides, Ash only had the Primeape for a few episodes, I'm not surprised he forgot about it. [[User:TheBlazikenMaster|TheBlazikenMaster]] 21:14, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

== Misty's Togetic ==

Ok, u win, just fix the grammar!--[[User:Kuki|Kuki]][[User talk:Kuki|Talk]] 12:17, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
:Done and done. Also, thanks. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 12:24, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

== Brock: Only character who looks Japanese ==

WRONG! It's him, Flint, and the Harrison Kids!--[[User:Kuki|Kuki]][[User talk:Kuki|Talk]] 15:09, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Sigh, let me clarify, Brock is the only one of the MAIN characters who looked Japanese. Flint, his siblings, Harrison Kids, Ninetales owner, Suziko, and that Mime jr/Bonsly show director were either side characters or one-shots. If you edited it, I'll revert the edit and make sure I clarified what I was trying to convey
[[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 15:15, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

== Movie 11 ==
I am going to overlook the fact that you overrode an editorial member's contribution without even paying attention to whether or not it supported your point (for instance, you deleted the paragraph in which I stated that the movies marks Origine Forme and Sky Forme's debuts; how is that controversial?). It is childish conduct, but I am used to it by now.

You should have realized that the content I deleted was all ''conjecture''; I couldn't have very well stated erroneous or unfounded information when I only removed other members' conjecture, could I? It may be true that when the first movie was revealed we had good reason to believe that Palkia would tag along with Dialga, but even back then that was not clearly implied. Since then, Dialga and Regigigas have been shown to have some role in the movie on numerous occasions, whereas Palkia has all but been forgotten. As for the new Pokémon, early toy advertisements led some to believe that the unrevealed Pokémon would pertain to the next generation. Since then, Sky Forme has been unveiled and confirmed to be that very same unrevealed Pokémon, leaving no viable reason to suspect that that speculation could still have merit.

All of the above warranted the deletion of the conjecture from the page as soon as last month. But I have refrained from doing so because I knew that certain members' obstinacy could prove problematic. However, by now circumstances have changed due to the fact that the movie has premiered in an early showing in a limited number of Japanese theaters. We already have a synopsis that may not be full-fledged, but is good enough to remove doubt on the subject of Palkia and new Pokémon: They are nowhere to be seen. --[[User:Unown Lord|Unown Lord]] 09:13, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

== Try not to be so biased... ==

Even if Hidaka's statement did sound kinda sexist, well, shit, it's true. Have you ''seen'' the amount of 34 there is of Pokémon, and not just of the human characters? I'm sure you have. Face it, older fans are complete pervs, and it's not like giving Misty short shorts, May a huge rack, and Dawn a short skirt isn't just as sexist. Heck, you couldn't even PLAY as a girl until Crystal! It's not that they're being sexist; it's that they have the internet and know of all the stuff out there... and so therefore, like in ''[[DP039|Steamboat Willies]]'', fanservice, fanservice, fanservice.

Anyway, I reworded the statement, hoping to be more NPOV. Now I'm gonna go wash my keyboard off, because I don't wanna start becoming one of those acronym-throwing Wikipedos. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 23:22, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

:Actually, if I was being biased, I would have only inserted it into Misty's article, and not even have bothered to insert it in May and Dawns articles. Besides, technically, you can play as a girl before Kris, since Misty was playable in Pokemon Puzzle League. And since Love hina comes to mind, in my mindset, Fanservice = sexist. And anyways, May and Dawn were even MORE Fanservicey than Misty (I go by the definition that it's only fanservicey if the person clearly enjoys doing the scandalous thing, or at least implies the enjoyment [Like the majority of the characters in LH, for example.].). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 23:53, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

::I've said this already, but you do not control the definitions of words. Society does. Especially on a wiki, it's important to rely on objective definitions rather than subjective opinions. And even if we go by your definition, Misty clearly enjoyed showing off her body in the Porta Vista Beauty Contest, dressing in that Goldeen swimsuit, and in that mermaid costume, and I don't recall Dawn doing anything "scandalous" on purpose. --[[User:PsychoRobo|PsychoRobo]] 17:09, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

:::No, Misty DIDN'T enjoy the Porta Vista Beauty Contest. She said "It's so degrading, but I need the money" when having to do it, which meant that she didn't like showing off like a playboy model. Also, in regards to the Goldeen outfit, Misty ALSO didn't enjoy it either. She said something like "at least they aren't taking notice of me", which implied she didn't really like the situation she was in (much less having to wear that outfit.). The Mermaid Outfit, she didn't really like having to wear it (ESP. in "The Misty Mermaid"), especially considering that the only reason she did the part was because her sisters set her up (BTW, she refused several times, but eventually relented when she realized her sisters needed help in regards to it). Also, the only reason she agreed to wear the outfit in "Cerulean Blues" was to try and calm down Gyarados. that's FAR Different compared to something like... Oh, I don't know, May's clear enjoyment of stripping on the beach, or Kanako Urashima's complete gladness of stripping (and even doing it in front of her brother at one point.

:::As for what Dawn did that was scandalous, she dressed up as a French Maid (which was a common Japanese Fetish), among other things.[[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 18:46, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Main series games only--[[User:Kuki|Kuki]][[User talk:Kuki|Talk]] 23:53, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

::::Dude, who ''doesn't'' enjoy going to the beach? Besides, is May supposed to wear her regular clothes and GO SWIMMING? And don't forget, Ash wore those clothes too. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 00:56, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

:::::I was referring to the swimsuit contest, since THAT was what you referenced. Also, yes, it's a bit impractical for her to wear her regular clothes and go swimming at the same time, but that doesn't mean she should have stripped in a strip-tease fashion, with her brother practically begging for her to stop doing it, and both he and ash being embarrassed. It's not the question of whether they enjoy going to the beach or not, it's whether they enjoying causing a scandal or not. If you try to disrupt this one more time, I WILL end up being forced to post Love Hina Pics to try and prove what exactly I meant by Fanserviced girls enjoying doing scandalous things. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 01:18, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

::::::I've come to realize that that's what anime does. They're basically all the same. They make the girls into fanservice. Look at YuGiOh GX. The guys wear respectable uniforms while the girls trot around in mini skirts with huge breasts. Come to think of it, Pokémon is being pretty lenient when it comes to fanservice compared to other animes. Not all of the girls have huge breasts unless they are older women (Lorelei and Prof. Ivy). --[[Special:Contributions/Kenji-girl|☆]][[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 01:23, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

::::::: May also has the racks as well, which, along with the other things, makes me want to stop it. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 01:29, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

::::::::Pffsst. You call that a rack? I don't get why people think May's boobs are big. That's just my opinion. --[[Special:Contributions/Kenji-girl|☆]][[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 01:32, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

:::::::::Maybe they aren't as big as Prima's, but they are definitely far too large for her age. I mean, ask her side profile pictures if you don't believe me. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 01:33, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Love Hina pics? If I was more of the male Internet user stereotype, I'd jump for joy at the prospect, but at least someone else might garner "enjoyment" out of them. In the meantime, I'll prepare for the event by giving you a picture of Slave Leia (from Star Wars Episode VI) as soon as I'm back on Bulbagarden forums, because obviously it is not fanservice because she obviously did not enjoy it and it did serve a more meaningful purpose than showing off Carrie Fisher's sweet bod.

Crikey, you make such a big deal out of the "stripping" scene. If anything, it was Max's fault for suggesting that it was striptease in the first place, because, oh, maybe changing into swimsuits on the beach is normal? Besides, American cartoons are arguably worse with these kind of jokes, because several episodes have little boys running around naked (Dexter's Laboratory and The Fairly OddParents, as examples). And yes, controversy over children's TV shows have been done to death already in North America, so I guess you're out of a job when it comes to American cartoons. And I suspect (directed at Kenji-girl) that people think May's boobs are big because this is the Internet, where everything is blown out of proportion.

I laughed at your claim that Dawn dressing up as a French maid was scandalous. Okay, so Ash also dressing up as a maid is not scandalous? What about Ash's recent Tarzan outfit (check Bulbagarden's Ash Club for details)? Or are you being sexist against males by suggesting they can't be hot too? --[[User:PsychoRobo|PsychoRobo]] 15:31, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

:Look, I don't enjoy those things anymore than you do. I used that as a way to try and stop you from doing that (mocking me).

:Also, everyone else made a big deal out of the striptease as well! And anyways, blame the writers as well, since they set it up as a striptease as well. And also blame Ash for looking embarrased about what he just saw. and anyways, MOST people wear an undershirt when they go to the beach. They DON'T, however, go to the beach in their regular clothes and take them off in front of everyone. also, I barely even WATCH Fairly OddParents (as a matter of fact, my parents, as well as I, avoided that show like the plague for the same reasons they mostly avoid the Simpsons.), and while I used to watch Dexters Laboratory, I started to hate it when they did that musical episode.

:and another thing, an entire THREAD was made in regards to how Pokemon was becoming more fetishish and used Dawn's Cheerleader and Maid costumes as an example. I'll eliminate every single sexist action on this planet, male and female alike. Besides, how can I be sexist with my own gender? By being sexist towards males, I'm being sexist towards myself. And anyways, Ash didn't even WANT to wear the Maids outfit, as you can tell by his blushing out of humiliation.

:I have warned you that if you don't stop mocking me, I WILL be forced to post those pics if it stops you. And I will act on it, even though I feel as though this is a mistake. I have hated these pics, but they prove my point as to how degrading fanservice is, and most importantly, how the characters in question actually DO enjoy causing this scandal. You have brought this upon yourself...
:However, I'll be a bit merciful and delay it until I successfully upload the first part of my video, which, as soon as I download Version 12 of Pinnacle, shouldn't take too long, since the Images in question are ON this video. HOWEVER, that doesn't mean you are allowed to mock me. I mean, think of it this way, if your parents, or your friends (real life friends, I mean), mentioned their dislike of May OR Dawn, would you act the very same way towards them that you act towards me? If the answer is no, take that into account before you try to mock me again.

:[[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 16:17, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
::And that entire sexism thread lost all credibility after its first response, when Blackjack Palazzo claimed she wished to see more male fanservice. And there was another girl that said it was mostly males that argue over this kind of thing, and the girls don't see much of a problem. So much for feminism, eh? Plus, I don't know many males who would willingly cross-dress, besides characters like Harley, James, and Bugs Bunny. Ash's unwillingness to wear it is thus irrelevant. I also don't know what a musical episode of Dexter's Laboratory has to do with the discussion. Please stop throwing non sequiturs around if you wish to be taken seriously.

::Oh, you're being merciful? Well, that's just a bit more time to postpone posting Slave Leia pics on your account, then. Anyways, who said I didn't enjoy fanservice? It's so fun to mock.

::As for your last question, of course I would still act the same way towards you. Why should I let other people control the way I think? A lot of people don't like Pokemon in my school, so your "peer pressure" argument barely fazes me. Oh, wait, you're jealous, aren't you? You're jealous because I scored with the same Serebii mod that banned you. You can't believe that I could get on her good side while you ended up becoming the laughingstock of Serebii's idiot hunters, and that's why you put the "real life friends" part. Well, maybe if you weren't trying to usurp her position by judging everyone on the forum with your "holier-than-thou" attitude (kind of like Lisa Simpson), then maybe you wouldn't be in the position you are now! P.S. This is becoming increasingly irrelevant to Bulbapedia editing. If you wish to continue, put this on my Bulbagarden or Pokecommunity account (MetaRobo/PorygonSquared, respectively). [[User:PsychoRobo|PsychoRobo]] 16:48, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

== Linking to other wikis ==

When linking to other wikis, please remeber to use {{ }} around the link, not [[ ]]

Thanks. ♪♪[[User:ShinyPachirisu|Shiny]] [[User Talk:ShinyPachirisu|Pachirisu]] :) ♪♪ 00:38, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

== Let me explain something to you ==

Just because I said that it doesn't only apply to Misty doesn't mean you can go and put it on May and Dawn's pages.

The reason we have a page on SOVA, despite being a fan thing, is because it was a big deal. This isn't so much a big deal that caused fans to write hundreds of letters. Infact I doubt that many people even know about it.

We already mention what he said on [[Masamitsu Hidaka|his page]] and how some fans find it offensive. We don't need to affiliate the character with it as well. Yes it was a shitty thing to say but we don't need to be reminded of it everytime we visit Misty, May, or Dawn's pages. --[[Special:Contributions/Kenji-girl|☆]][[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 11:35, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

::Fine, I won't edit the pages, and I'm also sorry for my response on your talk page, while I'm at it. However, I'm only stopping because Hidaka's page already mentioned it. and anyways, as far as I'm concerned, if it doesn't apply to just one person involved, it applies to ALL people involved. So, next time you say something like that, try it in a way that I can understand. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 11:40, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

== Arceus/Mew dispute ==

I've put up a full explanation at [[Talk:Arceus (Pokémon)#Arceus vs. Mew]]. I don't mean to sound so aggressive, but there truly is no real basis for considering Mew the first. At best, it should be mentioned that the fan community considered it the first, but that was always fanon and never what the games actually claimed.

Again, sorry if I've offended you.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 06:32, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

:I also posted my response on that discussion. And also, Porygon MAY have been made later, but then, if it can't be a descendant of Mew, then HOW can Mew be able to transform into it? I mean, they HAD to have used some form of Mew's DNA in order for it to be able to transform into it and it's family (Besides, they used Mew's DNA to create Mewtwo, who's to say they used ALL of the Mew DNA to transform into it? Besides, the pokedex entries hint that the reason why Mewtwo is savage and aggressive is because they repeatedly spliced Mewtwo's DNA, so I'm guessing they may have used his DNA in Grimer/Muk, Castform, and, yes, even the Porygon Family, so in a sense, they are Mewtwo's Children, and thus, in a sense, Mew's Grandchildren. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 11:00, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
:::Replied on the talk page. As for your comment here, I'm sorry, but it is completely ignorant of any concept of genetics, especially the actual concept of [[wikipedia:RNA splicing|genetic splicing]] and what DNA ''does'', as well as the actual text of Porygon's Pokedex entries, and the in-game description of how {{m|Transform}} works.

:::Let me illustrate your basic misunderstanding - a child typically has distinct DNA from two sources ( a mother and a father). You may not know this, but the mother and father generally have ''completely'' distinct lineages, and share almost no DNA that all humans don't share - to put it simply, the mother and father are generally not brother and sister, or anything close.
:::Now, because of this, the child will have DNA from the mother ''and'' father. What you are claiming is analogous to saying that the child's father should be able to turn into the child's mother, because the child, his descendant, has DNA from his mother. But this is utter hogwash, and immediately recognizable as lunatic raving. The very use of sexual reproduction in macro-evolution is that it introduces '''''NEW''''' genes into the gene pool.
:::If transformation were inherent in the species ''at all'', it would be obvious to even the casual observer that it would be the ''child'' who could be expected to be able to transform into both the father or mother, ''as his very nature'' is to be a collection of both of their DNA.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 05:57, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
::::Okay, first off - you don't get to make ultimatums, that's not how a wiki works. Second off, where in the ''hell'' does the D/P Pokedex say that Mew is "believed to be the originator of all Pokémon", thought to "possibly contain the genetic code of every other Pokémon", or able to "learn every TM/HM"? Finally, how could "Arceus being the original one" and "Mew creating ''ALL'' Pokemon" ever be reconciled? They're necessarily contradictory!
::::However, to try and compromise with you ''without'' making up fanfiction and being dishonest about the Pokedex, I rewrote the section you keep adding without having removed it. Is this acceptable?[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 03:44, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::Fine, I thank you for at least keeping the gist of it. BTW, I wasn't lying about the Pokédex entry. As a matter of fact, I have copied and pasted Mew's D/P Dex entry from his article just for you to see it. here it is:
:::::'''''''Because it can use all kinds of moves, many scientists believe Mew to be the ancestor of Pokémon. '''''''
:::::And to further prove that I'm not lying, I ALSO am going to post a link:
:::::Bulbapedia.Bulbagarden.net/wiki/Mew_(Pokémon)#Pokédex_entries.
:::::Next time you try to accuse me of lying about it, read Mew's D/P pokedex entry first, since it still said that Mew was believed to be the ancestor of pokémon (the fact it said pokémon made it seem like it said all pokémon.).
:::::Also, I tried to reason with you multiple times, but you insisted that it shouldn't be in there, despite the fact that the Dex actually stated it, so I was forced to take drastic measures.
:::::[[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 10:33, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
::::::YEs, you ''were'' incorrect about the Pokedex entry - you claimed it specifically said those things, and ''it did not''. '''Those''' were the points in contention, and you keep trying to avoid them. The Dex does '''not''' "actually say it", so you're claim that I forced you to keep trying to pass off your speculation as fact is incorrect.
*Specifically:
#The DP pokedex entry says '''nothing''' about TMs/HMs.
#The DP pokedex entry says '''nothing''' about genetics.
#The DP pokedex entry says '''nothing''' about "''originating'' '''all''' Pokemon".[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 01:05, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
::Do I LOOK Like I care what the DP pokedex says?! I only care for what ALL of them said. And ANOTHER thing, they may have not explicitly mentioned "TMs/HMs", but the mere fact that Mew's DP pokédex entry said that it can use ''All kinds of moves'' implies that it can learn TMs and HMs as well, as well as natural, move tutors, and even moves only available from Metronome. As for Genetics, The closest thing it came to mentioning Genetics was in SSBB's Trophy, and besides which, the mere fact that it can learn transform (which is stated to be the recombining of DNA into the pokemon that matches that DNA) should be enough to prove it's the Ancestor. And for Originating All Pokemon. SO WHAT? The Pokédex entry ALSO didn't say it originated most, some, few, or even only one Pokemon, either. It just said "Ancestor of All Pokemon", and from what I can tell, especially with how people often interperet thing, if it doens't explicitly mention that it's only most, few, some, or only one pokemon that it is an ancestor of, that means it's the ancestor of All Pokemon. Therefore, Mew stated that it's ancestor of pokemon = ancestor of all pokemon.

::I also forgot to mention one thing. There's a Significant difference between Mew's transforming into a Pokemon and Ditto's Transforming into a pokémon. Ditto can only transform into a pokemon when it sees it [It's also implied that it can't go by memory], whileas with Mew, it's implied thar Mew can transform into any pokemon without necessarily needing to see it at first (as one of the problems with trying to get Mew in Emerald is that it can transform into pokemon, and in the Anime, it's been shown to transform into pokemon that it hasn't had any contact with, or at the very least not any direct contact [eg, Ho-oh, Taillow, etc.].).

::Even IF it's not directly mentioned in the D/P/P Pokedex, we must wait until GSDS comes out (if it comes out) or, assuming that there is one, generation 5 before we say that it's been retconned. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 01:23, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

== Wow! ==

In all the time you've been on Bulbapedia, you haven't made a single contribution to the Userspace! That's quite an accomplishment! --[[User:Politoed666|ニョロトノ]][[User talk:Politoed666|''666'']] 22:22, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
:Userspace? [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 22:37, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
::Its the user page and anything connected with it except talk pages. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[User:Jmath/Sandbox|'''th''']] 22:41, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
::Oh, that. See, it's in red spacing, and I'm not completely sure if I can create one. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 22:42, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
:::O.O You don't have to create a page... ♪♪[[User:ShinyPachirisu|Shiny]] [[User Talk:ShinyPachirisu|Pachirisu]] :) ♪♪ 22:44, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
==Legendary Genders==
it said none because Legendary's dont have genders! [[User:Mooites|Mooites]] 01:55, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
:Only in the games, though. Maybe you've forgotten, but a Baby Lugia DID appear in the show. If they didn't have genders, please explain how Silver even exists?! Heck, most of the legendaries had multiples in the anime, and if they don't have genders, how can they have multiple species at the same time? [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 02:16, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
::Asexual Reproduction? They are hermaphrodites? There's more methods of reproduction than male/female sexual reproduction, you know. [[User:PsychoRobo|PsychoRobo]] 22:11, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
::good point. [[User:Mooites|Mooites]] 02:19, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
:::Mooites, this is directed at PsychoRobo, so don't think it seems like i'm lecturing you. PsychoRobo, ONE. Next time you have to respond to my usertalk, or any talk page for that matter, place it AFTER the recent poster. TWO. Asexual Reproduction requires budding, for the most part. THREE, Hermaphrodites change genders (meaning, they change from female to male just to reproduce. So, in one sense, the Marril family are hermaphrodites.), so they would still need to mate in order to reproduce the same effect. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 22:35, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
::::First, to respond to three. The topic was whether legendaries had genders or not. Just because they need to mate doesn't mean they have defined genders. And to two, budding is not the only form of asexual reproduction. In fact, many creatures such as starfish and especially plants can reproduce with a fragment of the parent. [[User:PsychoRobo|PsychoRobo]] 00:06, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::I think Budding involves the separation of the original host, so Starfish actually DO bud to reproduce. Also, Plants technically require pollination in order to reproduce (the stigma is the male plant, the phyla is the female, the pollen goes to another plant, they make eggs known as seeds, get my drift?), so technically, it's not asexual reproduction. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 00:10, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
::::::Plants can regenerate asexually with one of their body parts removed, though. It's not their main option, but it is an option. [[User:PsychoRobo|PsychoRobo]] 14:51, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

== Edits ==

Please stop doing it. We can discuss it on the talk page. Just no more edits. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[User:Jmath/Sandbox|'''th''']] 22:07, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

:Fine, But the thing still stands. Now, if you want to add a footnote that this happened before the release of Platinum on the edits page (or request me to do so), fine, because that way, we'll have middle ground. I can say it's technically a out of order defeat, and you can say that it was before Platinum was released. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 22:11, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
::Anyway, where did you get that the order is changed? It isn't anywhere else here. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[User:Jmath/Sandbox|'''th''']] 22:13, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
:::Tv.com. The Platinum release thread. Specifically:

:::"Hearthome Gym is now the Third gym, Veilstone is the Fourth, and Pastoria is the Fifth

:::How dumb is it for Fantina not to have Drifblim. Her dress is best on it, and her gym in the anime was. "

:::"Oh, I didn't even notice the Gym order switch!

:::Yay, in Diamond and Pearl Fantina uses Drifblim in Super Contests, and since her dress is based on one I guess they'll let her keep that Driflblim. Now while the Drifblim/Duskull switch is odd, why in the world did they replace her Gengar with a Haunter? Just becuase she's no longer the fifth Gym they downgraded her Pokemon?

:::Though I do agree with the evolving of Gardenia's Cherubi into a Cherrim, hopefully Dawn will get one in the anime."

:::The Quotes were from SPDShadowRanger and Pikachu315111, respectively

:::[[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 22:23, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Are you sure what's written there can be taken as fact? How can some guy know that when the game hasn't even been released yet. Even Bulbapedia is not mentioning it. At least edit it when the game's released. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[User:Jmath/Sandbox|'''th''']] 22:26, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

:Considering how even Serebii (The webmaster, not the pokemon) is playing through Platinum as we speak, I'd say it already HAS been released. If serebii updated the site to include the changes in Roark's pokemon/Puzzle, It can be fairly certain that these others have played the game. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 22:30, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
::Then what is September 13 for? Some guys get special privileges? [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[User:Jmath/Sandbox|'''th''']] 22:34, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
:::I just changed the release date, and mentioned why in it's talk page. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 22:35, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

If you could make the footnote for that trivia, go ahead. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[User:Jmath/Sandbox|'''th''']] 22:41, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

== Style ==

Please read the {{bp|manual of style}} and familiarize yourself with English grammar before you edit too much more. Your recent edits to [[legendary birds]] spelled Pokémon as pokemon, used "it's", among as possessive, and has weird capitals all over the place, among other errors. --[[User:Martonimos|Martonimos]][[User talk:Martonimos|((Argh]]|[[Special:Contributions/Martonimos|Blargh))]] 20:57, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

== Delete? ==

Do you want your user page deleted?Can I put the tag on it? another user generously made one for you--[[User:DCM|DCM]][[User talk:DCM|((Nag at Me!]][[Special:Contributions/DCM|Edits))]]

== Speculation ==

Please don't put speculation in main articles; just put it on the talk page. [[User:Dialgarules|Dialgarules]] 01:30, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
:I'm sorry, but you ''really'' have to make sense on this site. You put Poké-ball when it SAYS IN THE WELCOME THINGY to say '''Poké [space] Ball!''' When you say that Meowth "prefers to walk around" it could mean a lot of things. You could say that it likes to be out of its Poké [space] Ball. How about you take a quick look at [[Bulbapedia:Manual_of_style|this]]? [[User:Dialgarules|Dialgarules]] 00:39, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

== Pokémon Heroes Subtitles ==

There are such things that are called, oh maybe you've heard of them, ERRORS. I've listened to it several times and it does not sound like "I'm sorry" to me. Sometimes the people making the subtitles mess up. Also the whole Misty catching Totodile thing doesn't float. That's a matter of opinion and making speculations because of the way the balls were thrown. Don't put any of these things on Totodile's page again.--[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 10:52, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
:Ok, but then again, technically, several other things like the Major events section, Trivia, and Errors section technically shouldn't appear in those pages either, since it's kinda speculation in and of itself, no matter how it's worded. Heck, the entirety of Bulbapedia's articles are speculation. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 13:42, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

== Anime abilities ==

Please do not add unconfirmed abilities to anime Pokémon pages. It doesn't matter if the only ability for a {{AP|Totodile}} is {{a|Torrent}}, or if the only ability for a {{AP|Larvitar}} is {{a|Guts}}. Unless it is confirmed in words in the anime, the ability stays as Unknown. The unconfirmed ability removal was started by {{u|Politoed666}} an EB member. - [[User:Kogoro|'''<sc>Kogoro</sc>''']] '''|''' [[User talk:Kogoro|'''<sc>Talk to me</sc>''']] '''|''' 04:34, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
:If that's the case, should we eliminate the majority of Psyduck's wins (or participations in battles in other words?), or heck, Pikachu's Participation in Round 2 of the Saffron Gym battle? I mean, they never explicitly said in the anime "I choose Pikachu"/"Pikachu, GO!" or "Psyduck, I choose you!" those times (if anything, the opposite is true, as with Psyduck, it pops out when she's choosing Staryu, Starmie, or some other pokemon, and Ash tried to tell Pikachu to avoid battling Kadabra.), and thus is the same thing, as far as I'm concerned (I also posted this for Politoed666 on Maverick Nate's talk Page.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 04:57, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
::Then understand what she meant to say and not what she literally said. Psyduck is ''used'' in the anime. Torrent is not. Pikachu is ''used'' in the anime. Guts is not. Abilities that are not mentioned and do not ever appear should not be put on anime pages. [[User:IIMarckus|IIMarckus]] 05:04, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
:::Even IF the ability is the only thing it's got?! I mean, common sense should dictate the fact that, if it's the only ability it can ever have, it is to be included in the abilities section, REGARDLESS if it's stated in the anime or not. Besides, Abilities ARE used as well (they activate under certain conditions). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 05:08, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
::::The anime and games barely match up at the best of times. You might as well be adding “Based on the moves such‐and‐such knows, it is probably between levels 34 and 40” to pages. Nothing suggests that the Totodile in the anime has Torrent. [[User:IIMarckus|IIMarckus]] 05:11, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
:::::On the case of the ability needing to be mentioned in words, how else would an ability be confirmed? Misty's Psyduck popping out of it's Poké Ball and battling is visual, so it's obvious without any words. It's rather hard to not notice the flash of light come from Misty's pack, then Psyduck standing near her. With abilities, it's a little less black & white. Unless someone like Brock says something like "Totodile's using its ability, Torrent!" we're not able to know that it's actually Torrent activating or not. I hope you understand now. - [[User:Kogoro|'''<sc>Kogoro</sc>''']] '''|''' [[User talk:Kogoro|'''<sc>Talk to me</sc>''']] '''|''' 05:41, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

== Grammar ==

The first letter of every sentence is capitalized, and Pokémon is spelled with an é and an uppercase P. You've been here long enough to know that, so you should have gotten it the first time. ''[[User:Maverick Nate|'''Maverick''']][[User talk:Maverick Nate|'''Nate''']]'' 15:45, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

:Please, please starting using better grammar. Stop making so many run-on sentences. And stop capitalizing words that don't need to be like ''dub''. Only capitalize the first word in the sentence, Pokémon names, character names, anything with Poké in front of it, and proper nouns. Also you use ''whileas'' in your sentences A LOT. Whileas is not a word. If you want, but really not needed, put ''while as''. But you really don't need it. Just say ''while''. And don't over use those parenthesis (). You use them way too much. And try not to add these extra words like ''merely'', ''actually'', or ''clearly'' unless absolutely needed. Thank you. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 06:05, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

== Ironically ==

Please don't over user the term 'ironically'. Thanks, --[[User:RexRacer|'''Rex]][[Quilava (Pokémon)|Racer''']] [[User talk:RexRacer|'''''-talk''''']] 15:52, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

== "Focusing" ==

There is a difference between an episode focusing on a particular character, and a particular character supporting them. For episode 232? That is not an episode focusing on Misty. Brock? Yes. Look a little more closely at these roles, then decide who it's focused on. -[[User:Sketch|Sketch]] 21:01, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
:Well, actually it's focused on both. You see, if it wasn't for Misty, Brock would have become the Ninetale's owner's reincarnate, and Ash would have also completely fallen for the deception, and Brock would also have never figured out that the Ninetales in question was just trying to relive it's memories of it's own trainer, so it's also focused upon in there. Now, if you want "supporting", Ash is a good example, He didn't initially think about it being a trick/illusion made by Ninetales, even claiming Misty was paranoid, and only started to believe when Ash saw Brock go through her.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 21:06, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
::Just because Misty figured out what Ninetails was doing doesn't mean it's a Misty focused episode. Stop trying to look for any little thing that makes Misty the focus of the episode. Like 133. Pikachu and Meowth were also the focal points of the episode so why didn't you think of adding Ash and Team Rocket as focuses. Because they are not. The focuses were the Pokémon. Not Misty. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 00:28, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
:::Actually, in regards to EP133, it's because Meowth and Pikachu already have their OWN episode focusing templates, so adding in Jessie James Ash or Team Rocket's episode focusing templates would have been pointless.

:::And anyways, she didn't merely just "Figure it out", she tried to warn Ash and especially Brock for a significant portion of the episode. See, anything a main character does that's significant to the episode as well as focuses on them for the majority of the time is a "episode focused on so-and-so" episode in and of itself, and Contests/Gym Battles and even Captures aren't enough. I mean, Jessie, for instance, won a ribbon in the episode where Ash beat fantina, was this a Jessie-oriented episode? no, because she was barely even focused on [in fact, unless I'm mistaken, which I probably am, i think the contest was actually not even shown until after Ash won the battle] the episode [[EP103|Misty Meets her Match]] was a similar scenario.). Now, if I added in the template for episode 001, then yes, your accusations would be legitimate, correct, and justified.

:::It doesn't matter anyways, as I have already completed the test anyways (Ash:40, Misty:46, maybe Ash:40, Misty:45 now.), and this was actually a test to see if Ash was truly the central character (the central character would usually have most of the entire show focused on him/her. As he didn't exceed Misty, he's not really a central main character.). the only part Misty had in it was to see whether she was actually equal to Ash, or rather, to set a fair comparison between the characters to have it be a fair test (I can't use Brock or Tracey, because that would be a no contest, and thus, an unfair advantage on Ash's part.). I also plan on doing the same thing with Ash and May in regards to AG, and Ash and Dawn in DP as well.

:::On a side note, I also did it to statistically find out which of the girls was actually close to being Ash's equal (I earlier speculated Misty, but I found out that she actually exceeded Ash), and I only did it because I have certain doubts of Dawn actually being equal to Ash (since I researched it, and noticed initially that Misty seemed closer to equality to Ash than May and Dawn were). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 01:08, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
::::Just because Togepi doesn't have a focusing category yet doesn't automatically make Misty the character of focus. News flash, Ash is the main character of the show not Misty. And there is WAY MORE THAN 40 episodes focusing on Ash. As for the female character that is Ash's equal, I believe it's Dawn. For someone who's been in the series for 107 episodes, she sure had a significant amount of episodes focusing on her. Maybe not as much as Misty, but Misty was around for 250 plus episodes. At the rate the show is going, Dawn will probably have more episodes than Misty. I know you might not like to hear that, but it's the truth. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 01:15, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

::::in regards to Togepi, if you are talking about Tanks a lot, it's because Misty pretty much organized the attack among other things. As for your claims that Ash is focused upon more than Misty (and more than 40 episodes), that's not even close to a true statement. I already did the analysis of all the episodes I could, outrightly ignoring those that are completely unknown. Also, Most of the Johto episodes didn't even focus on Ash at all (and also didn't focus on Misty, Brock, OR Team Rocket), Instead, it focused on COTDs with even Ash being nothing more than the Background, so, in all reality, Ash isn't the central character you think he is. If anything, it's you whose being more biased. I was trying to make it as fair as I can. There were even Gym matches that barely even focused on Ash at all, despite his participating in them (Case in point: Misty Meets her Match.) And also, the majority of the captures he made in the Kanto Saga either had him sharing the spotlight (Ash Catches a Pokémon, which not only dealt with Ash's captures, but Character Development from Misty as well, since a significant part of the episode dealt with her trying to cope with Caterpie despite her fear of bug-types/bugs.), or was never even in the spotlight in the first place (Charmander and the Stray Pokemon, as that episode dealt with Brock trying to help Charmander and all that, among other things, and Ash pretty much took Charmander.).

::::And also, I counted the episode listings thus far in regards to Dawn-centric episodes, and out of the 107 episodes thus far, only 20 episodes were actually focused on Dawn (see, in order for it to be a lot for a girl who has been in for 107 episodes, it needs to be, oh... 40 episodes in that range at least.). Misty had more by this time (7 more by the halfway point, and we just went by the halfway point already, as the 12th movie trailer implied that the upcoming 12th movie will be the last DP series movie.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 01:41, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
:::::This is the problem I have with your counting. Obviously there are others who do not agree that characters in certain episodes have "focus". Therefore your "statistics" aren't entirely accurate. You can say that "Oh, this character is the focus in this episode so that gives them this many episodes..." and so forth...that doesn't make it true. -[[User:Sketch|Sketch]] 01:48, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
::::::Since others seem to not agree amongst themselves, that also means that even THEIR views on what's "Focus" isn't entirely accurate either. And anyways, if that's the case, then Ash never really had much focus in the Leagues, even though those league episodes were listed as episodes focused on him. It's no different. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 01:51, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
:::::::Misty wasn't the one who orginized the plan in Tanks A lot. From what I remember, it was mostly Team Rocket's idea. You give Misty WAY TOO MUCH credit for things. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 02:02, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
::::::::Like how you gave too much credit to Ash or Dawn? you don't seem to be getting this, even without Tanks a Lot, she still had more ACTUAL character-centric episodes than Ash anyhow, and had more character-centric episodes than Dawn, anyways, even by range. And hey, what about the part about Entei at your own risk being a Brock centric episode just because his Foretress evolving, even though there were episodes where a main characters pokemon evolved even though said main character wasn't even the focus of the episode ("March of the Exeggutor Squad" says hi, since the episode was actually a Misty-centric episode by all definitions, and yet Ash's Charmeleon evolved, despite his barely even being out of the background.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 02:17, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Because Ash is the absolute main character of the show. And you only so far counted the original series episodes. What about Advanced and DP? You can't possibly believe Misty has more character focused episodes than Ash. And as for Entie At Your Own Risk, it does automatically a character focused episode when one of their Pokémon evolves. There Pokémon accidentally wondering off doesn't. And you say that its Misty focused because Togepi got inside the tank but refuse to acknowledge Ash and Team Rocket for the very same reason.

Personally, I think your a bit Misty obsessed and are looking for any reason to label Misty the focus of an episode. Please come to the realization that Misty was not the main focus of the series and that Ash was, and still is. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 02:27, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

:No, he ISN'T the absolute main character. Also, I counted the original series episodes because I just wanted to focus on whose the more equal female. And anyways, since you said "Original Series", that's because it's three different series in Japan, meaning, trying to compare is ridiculous beyond belief. I mean, it's like trying to say Ash was more popular than May in the Original series, it's silly. As for the whole thing about evolution=character-focus episode, no it doesn't. In order for it to truly be a character-centric episode, the character in question must have actual focus for more than 50% of the entire episode. As Brock wasn't even focused on for most of the episode, evolution or not, it's not an actual "Brock-centric episode".

:Also, I'm not misty-obsessed (aside from wanting to want her to return and working to make sure i do that, of course.). Believe me, If I WAS truly what you had described me, I would have labeled EP001, and absolutely every single episode Misty was in for that matter [even that brief cameo she had in the Hoenn Conference), as being a Misty-centric episode just because she's in it. And anyways, even if she wasn't, Ash wasn't either. I mean, I could list a few episodes that didn't focus on ANY of the main characters at all, like the majority of the Johto saga (The Xatu episode didn't focus on Ash, the Sunflora Vileplume episode didn't focus on Ash, the the Red Gyarados arc didn't focus on Ash [if it focused on anyone, it was Lance], etc. etc.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 03:02, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

::Yes, he is. Misty and the others are main characters but the anime basically revolves around Ash. ESPECIALLY in the original series in which you keep insisting Misty is the center of the series. What did Misty do? Was it Misty who competed in the Gym Battles? Was it Misty who competed in the Pokémon League? Was it Misty who was deciding where they were heading next? She was basically a character like Brock, Tracey, and Max are. One of Ash's friends who follows him and really doesn't do anything that greatly impacts the direction of the series. This does not mean that they are not important but they are basically behind Ash and are not his equal in anyway. The beginning of the Japanese openings never said "Satoshi, Kasumi, and Takeshi". They always said "Satoshi". It wasn't until the Diamond and Pearl that it was changed to "Satoshi and Hikari". It was the Advanced Generation were they decided to share the main point of the series with another character, May.

::You seem to be misunderstanding what I meant. I didn't mean every single episode is Ash focused. I'm saying that the anime in general is Ash focused.

::To Bulbapedia's standards, an episode in which a main character catches a Pokémon, evolves a Pokémon, or releases a Pokémon is an automatic focus on a particular character. Regardless of what you think.

::Yes, you are indeed Misty obsessed if you believe that she was more important of a character than Ash is. Even I don't say that about Tracey. If Misty was indeed the most important character of the series than why isn't she in it anymore? Why did the producers decide to keep Brock and not her?

::So are you trying to tell me that what ever happened after the original series doesn't matter? That it doesn't matter that Ash continued to be in more episodes after Misty's departure. Get a clue. Ash is the center of the anime followed by Dawn and May then the other characters, which includeds Misty. Of course Team Rocket is up their with May and Dawn as the opposing side to the heroes. You need to except that. Just because Misty has a lot of fans doesn't make her more important in the series than Ash is. You are being way too baised in your decisions. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 03:51, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

:::''Yes, he is. Misty and the others are main characters but the anime basically revolves around Ash. ESPECIALLY in the original series in which you keep insisting Misty is the center of the series. What did Misty do? Was it Misty who competed in the Gym Battles? Was it Misty who competed in the Pokémon League? Was it Misty who was deciding where they were heading next? She was basically a character like Brock, Tracey, and Max are. One of Ash's friends who follows him and really doesn't do anything that greatly impacts the direction of the series. This does not mean that they are not important but they are basically behind Ash and are not his equal in anyway. The beginning of the Japanese openings never said "Satoshi, Kasumi, and Takeshi". They always said "Satoshi". It wasn't until the Diamond and Pearl that it was changed to "Satoshi and Hikari". It was the Advanced Generation were they decided to share the main point of the series with another character, May. ''

:::Actually, she did greatly impact the series, as if it wasn't for her, Ash would have DIED. Since you guys are saying that he IS the Anime, then, if it wasn't for her, the anime would have ended right then and there. Besides, the only time relating to battles where the focus was undeniably on Ash was in the Leagues (The Gyms are debatable, as the Gym episodes seemed to focus more on the characters appearing than on Ash himself, or in the case of the Rudy Gym Episode, focused almost exclusively on Misty.). Besides, the point of the poll was how much screentime she really got compared to the Girls, and to be honest, I wasn't even anticipating the results to be as high as it was.

:::''You seem to be misunderstanding what I meant. I didn't mean every single episode is Ash focused. I'm saying that the anime in general is Ash focused.''

:::You said he was the "Absolute" main character, which, according to Webster, means everything. which, taking that definition into account, would imply that Absolutely every millisecond of every episode would be focused on Ash, which it really wasn't.

:::''To Bulbapedia's standards, an episode in which a main character catches a Pokémon, evolves a Pokémon, or releases a Pokémon is an automatic focus on a particular character. Regardless of what you think.''

:::Regardless if the episode focused 90% more on a Main Character other than Ash and Ash himself got only 10% when the capture/evolution/release episode was made (Like in the Charmander episode, even though Ash caught Charmander, it was more focused on Brock, as he was the one who reacted first to Damian's neglect, he's the one who cared for Charmander the most, he was the one who got extremely worried about Charmander when it left upon recovery to try and reunite with Damian. All Ash did throughout the episode was capture it [and, according to Brock, checked it's tail.].). That's crazy! I mean, Misty caught Psyduck, and I'll be the first to admit that the episode of it's capture barely even focused on her. If it even focused on anyone, it was Officer Jenny and Nurse Joy, which was a major reason as to why I didn't even include it.

:::''Yes, you are indeed Misty obsessed if you believe that she was more important of a character than Ash is. Even I don't say that about Tracey. If Misty was indeed the most important character of the series than why isn't she in it anymore? Why did the producers decide to keep Brock and not her?

:::Actually, I wasn't even thinking Misty was more important than Ash when I did this test. I just was doing it to measure the amount of character centric episodes Misty got in comparison to Ash (As well as the females in comparison to Ash as a whole.). heck, to be honest, I didn't even anticipate that Misty would get more episodes than Ash (The least I could predict was probably Misty: 45% Ash: 65%, if not 50/50.). The only reason why I had gotten the results to be 40:46 for Ash and Misty was because I didn't realize that someone had already listed the Johto Conference episodes as being Ash centric. Besides, if I was truly that which you described me as, I would have posted every single episodes that Misty ever appeared in as being a "Misty Centric" episode just because she appeared (Which I didn't and I actually gave reasons for why the episodes were focused on Misty or Ash.).

:::''So are you trying to tell me that what ever happened after the original series doesn't matter? That it doesn't matter that Ash continued to be in more episodes after Misty's departure. Get a clue. Ash is the center of the anime followed by Dawn and May then the other characters, which includeds Misty. Of course Team Rocket is up their with May and Dawn as the opposing side to the heroes. You need to except that. Just because Misty has a lot of fans doesn't make her more important in the series than Ash is. You are being way too baised in your decisions.''

:::No I wasn't. And anyways, if Ash was truly the center of the show as you claim, please explain to me why the writers actually considered replacing Ash twice. You know exactly what I mean, the special Raikou: The Legend of Thunder was released midway through Johto, where Ash wasn't even in that special, period, much less the Main Character, and some fans even stated that the special was a prototype for a series that wouldn't have involved Ash at all. Later, they revealed a Poster advertizing for a DP anime that had Dawn, Dawn, and Dawn alone on it, absolutely no sign of Ash on it, period. Some of the fanbase thought they were actually replacing Ash for the series because of that (and Dogasu even admitted that the reasoning behind the belief was legitimate). Now granted, they decided to keep Ash on, but the mere fact that they even thought of that special and making that Poster in that way implies that the writers felt that even Ash was expendable, which implies that, even back in the original series, Ash wasn't the star of the show (The writers wouldn't even THINK of doing the Raikou special if they felt that Ash was truly the star of the show.). So who's being more biased now? [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 14:28, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

You know Weedle, Ash IS the main character of the show. That doesn't mean he has to get the focus in ''every'' episode. It's on his goals that the anime revolves around not on any other characters. Its been like that since the beginning of the series. Ash always seems to be there when everyone else isn't. And the part about Misty saving Ash, do you really think a main character would '''die'''? That's never going to happen. Sure they may be life-threatening moments but they would never ''die''.

Naruto is a perfect example of being the main character but not given the focus in every episode. Its just like that with Ash. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 15:38, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
:I really don't think your experiment should have been done in the mainspace--[[User:RexRacer|'''Rex]][[Quilava (Pokémon)|Racer''']] [[User talk:RexRacer|'''''-talk''''']] 15:53, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

:Technically, he did die, twice. In the episode "The Tower of Terror", Haunter took Ash and Pikachu's souls out of their bodies after they caused the Chandelier to fall on them. The second time was in the first movie, where, after Ash got in the way of Mewtwo and Mew's attack, he turned to stone, couldn't awaken, and the only reason he was even alive now was because of the tears and he was, both clinically and truly, up to the point of the tears, dead. So, yes, they did "Kill" Ash.

:Anyways, not focusing on him is one thing, as there were plenty of episodes in the original series (a bit too much if you really think about it, even WITHOUT Misty), that didn't actually focus on him. No, my point was they not only were he was '''not''' focused upon in the ''[[The Legend of Thunder]]'' special, but he didn't even appear in it, period. A similar thing happened when they revealed that they had plans of making a DP Anime. They unveiled a poster of it, and the way they unveiled Dawn for the first time ever made it seem as though she was not only replacing Ash, but that Ash was NOT going to be appearing in the anime. That's my point. I mean, think about it, Even IF the writers didn't give Ash the focus in every single episode, if they felt that Ash was the Be-all-end-all of the show, why would they do [[The Legend of Thunder|a special]] that didn't even have a cameo from Ash, or a Promotional Poster for DP that focused on Dawn alone, and made it seem as though Ash was going to leave the Anime, and Dawn would take up the mantle of the star of the show. I mean, in the DP poster's case, it was one of the biggest discussions at the time. Those, to me, implied that the writers viewed even Ash as expendable.

:As for that comment for RexRacer, care to suggest where else I could put this experiment then? [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 16:02, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
::Sure at the time of the poster, people may have thought Ash was going to be replaced but the writers never specifically stated it. They may have been referencing the fact that a new girl is going to play a important role in the anime not as in being the only one. And Ash could not be in the Raikou special since he was at Hoenn at the time and the special happened in Johto. And you can't say from one incident that Ash is expendable. Again, I state the example of Naruto. There have been episodes in which he hasn't appeared at all.

Sure Ash may have kinda "died" but he always came back almost immediately instead of staying dead. Which means a ''lot''. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 16:14, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

:No, The Raikou Special actually took place (And AIRED in Japan, don't bring Chronicles into it) between Hatching a Plan, and Dues and Don'ts. And it wasn't a chronicles episode (Heck, Pokemon Hoso hadn't even been aired yet.). They even referenced several parts involving the special in the Johto League when Ash fought Jackson/Vincent.). As for referencing a new girl, They had a poster showing a new character named May and they had Ash with her as well when it was first unveiled, so that cannot be it.

:As for Naruto, were these main episodes, or were these episodes from a spinoff series similar to Hoso/Chronicles? [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 16:31, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
::Okay whatever. That doesn't mean that one special is enough to disprove Ash's status. The characters of the special hasn't been given a major appearance ever since then except Vincent but he appeared for one episode anyway. And for the poster thing, Dawn is kinda more important than May was. In all the DP movies, she is given equal importance with Ash unlike May who was only given importance in '''1''' movie.

::And the Naruto episodes were the main ones. I don't know if there were spinoffs but it doesn't matter. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 16:43, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

:::I think that a member of BMGf by the name of Rhyperior pointed out that it was Ash who saved Alamos/The world in Movie 10, and that Dawn ultimately took the back seat, anyways (The only remotely important thing that she did within the movie was save Ash) as it was Ash who told Pikachu and Pachirisu to reactivate the device, according to him, thus saving the world/Alamos, and he also scolded Palkia. Also, in the Shaymin Movie, other than the fact that she and brock tried to stop the Glacier (which even then, they weren't even the ones who actually stopped it, it was Regigigas), she didn't really do much. I mean, did she pair up with Ash and the two of them together, along with Shaymin, Muten, and Giratina, utterly defeat Zero? No, Ash was the one who ended up stopping him once and for all. So, in actuality, she actually had the same role May did, meaning she never was important to begin with. And, arguably, May wasn't given any importance in any movies, considering the fact that the climax of the 9th movie had her act like a total coward and didn't even attempt to save Manaphy (Instead, it was Ash who ended up saving the day, as usual.). So, in any case, I still say that Ash was expendable, as the character didn't appear, and the special, according to many, was a test to see what Audiences would feel, which implies that they had plans to replace Ash. Plus, the Poster, not to mention. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 16:58, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
::::Ash and Dawn were both on the tower activating the music device not Ash alone. It wasn't just Ash's Pikachu but Dawn's Pachirisu that also helped in it. In the Giratina movie, both Ash ''and'' Dawn went to the Reverse World not just Ash alone. She interacted with Shaymin almost as much as Ash. And how could you say May wasn't given any importance in the 9th movie? Its not about how she acted. A main plot point in the movie was May interacting with Manaphy and treating it like its mother. Whatever she did in the movie near the end doesn't matter since their relationship was shown for a major portion of the movie.

::::And like I said before, the writers haven't made any move to remove Ash from the story. The special is a seperate entity with its characters almost never appearing again in the anime. They may have looked to have tried a few attempts to remove him but the fact that they keep bringing Ash back show that he IS important. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 17:46, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
:::::Sigh, look, if you want to mention this to anyone, tell it to Rhyperior, assuming you are also a member of BMGf, all I did was just quote him. As for the part about the Reverse World, I know they both were in the Reverse world in the first visit, but during the second visit, it was Ash, and Ash alone who defeated Zero once and for all (Dawn was stuck trying to stop the glacier that, in the end, only Regigigas was able to stop, remember?). I mean, the summary of that movie even stated this.

:::::As for your point as to how she raised and interacted with Manaphy in the movie, if the same deal with Misty interacting with Togepi wasn't even considered even remotely important despite some episodes focusing on Togepi, then, Titular pokemon or not, her interacting with Manaphy isn't important either.

:::::As for thinking he's important, so what, Brock stays on the show for barely as long as Ash has, and he's not even as important as him, so Episode lengths aren't a detemining factor. And anyways, in order for someone to be a central character, not only do they NOT replace the character, they also are unable to even think about replacing it (Which, at least twice, they did think of replacing him.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 17:58, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Ash hasn't been replaced in the main anime. That's what matters not some random special. The anime is more important than the Chronicles or the raikou special. Its even more imortant than the movies. I know Brock has been there for a good portion of the series but he doesn't do that much anyway. This is Ash's story not anyone else's since he is in every episode.

Misty has interacted with Togepi to what extent in the movies? She practically just holds it for a major portion of the movies. May did a ''lot'' with Manaphy. It also helps that Manaphy is the titular Pokémon for the movie.

:Let's see, she fed it, she discovered some of it's metronome abilities, had it fight against Pikachu at one point, heck, her Togepi was also integral to defeating Colonel Hanson and reclaiming the Togepi Paradise. Besides, if we want to get technical, what did May ''actually'' do with it. She also, for the most part, held it, and heck, when it got kidnapped, what did she do? just stand there!

:They may not have done it, but they have certainly thought about it. I mean sure, they didn't replace him, but the point was they thought about replacing him. And anyways, considering how they referred to that special in the main series, anyways, it's a main series episode in and of itself. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 18:21, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
::I am talking about the movies. Misty hasn't done anything with Togepi in a movie. Sure Togepi has had its share of screentime in the anime but only in a few episodes. Out of the entire Johto season, Togepi might have had only less than 10 episodes that truly concentrate on it. It did ''nothing'' for the rest.

::And as long as Ash isn't replaced and keep appearing in every episode, he is the main character. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 18:28, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
Just so you guys know, the fact that this conversation is taking place is hilarious. I don’t even see why we have these categories that are almost solely based on opinion; it’s not as if we don’t have enough categories already (over two ''thousand''). [[User:IIMarckus|IIMarckus]] 19:08, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
:Well, in the Movies case, I can name one thing it did. It was implied that Togepi was the one who freed Zapdos and Moltres, as we saw it doing that "metronome" arm wave thing when Tracey told everyone to get down in regards to the whole Fire, Water, and Electricity combinations = an explosion. (In case you don't recall that scene, it's because 4Kids cut the scene out when they localized the film.). Besides, what did May do with Manaphy, anyways? I mean, she didn't battle with it (which is what the fanbase thinks of when they say "doing anything" in regards to a character.). And even IF Ash is the main character, the template already listed Brock, Misty, May, Dawn, and even the likes of Tracey, Max, and Todd as main characters, so either way, he's not THE main character (He's only A main character.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 20:55, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
::Again I state, as long as Ash keeps appearing in every episode in the main anime, he is the main character. Once he gets replaced, at least for a few episodes, then I will agree with you. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 08:17, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

== The reason ==

The reason why Brock, Tracey, and Misty had information about them getting replaced is because a staff member from the show actually explained the situation. The Dawn replacing Ash thing is all fan speculation and no one from the show EVER said that they were considering replacing Ash. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 21:52, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
:So What?! The GSDS article was still fan speculation in and of itself, and yet you freely chose to keep it on despite that. Heck, the whole Misty issue was actually placed into Misty's article BEFORE Masamitsu Hidaka's revalation. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 21:58, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

== Edit War ==

Thank goodness you guys somehow resolved it...under normal circumstances, you both would be blocked, depending on the amount of edits against...keep that in mind next time... [[User:Ht14|''ht'']][[User talk:Ht14|''14'']] 14:02, 25 December 2008 (UTC)
:I was just trying to put that out due to the fact that the circumstances of whether capturing them was the cause of the events of the second movie or if it was just territorial disputes (since the film implied that both were the cause.), and besides which, none of the Other times a Legendary bird was captured did a weather anamoly occur, which I pointed out with the events of Jack Walker capturing that Zapdos and riding it, as well as the fact that, other than the lake being almost a biological hazard, it's near-death didn't impact the weather. Jmath had to insist that they controlled the weather just because Lawrence III set the chain of events in motion (Even though Zapdos explicitly told Pikachu that it was conquering Fire Island, which definitely implied that Territorial disputes were a main cause of the events.) {{Unsigned|Weedle Mchairybug}}
::It doesn't matter. We resolved it. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 14:13, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

== Pokémon ==

Pokémon is not spelled "pokemon", it's "Pokémon". [[User:Chocolate|Chocolate]] ([[User talk:Chocolate|Chat with Me]]) 23:58, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
:I'm not sure if you should changed Haunter, but if you were to do it, you msut remember to chang it on Ash's page to be consistence.--[[Bulbapedia:Project Custom Sprite|☆]][[User:Tavisource|Tavis]][[User talk:Tavisource|ource]] 00:09, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

== Your trivia ==

The fact that multiple admins have reverted your edits to High Touch should be an indication that it is not needed. Please stop adding the information, as it is not relevant to anything. --[[User:PAK Man|PAK Man]] [[User talk:PAK Man|Talk]] 22:14, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

== That trivia ==

Let's put it this way...Take a small 5-6 year old kid. Ask him/her to do some advanced mathematics. Do you really expect the kid to suddenly do it. He just won't understand what you're saying to him. Does that make him disobedient??? Same with Psyduck. I don't remember any time where Psyduck actually battled with any determination to win. Its just basically clueless and once it gets a headache, it just releases its power. Chimchar also doesn't fall in the disobedient category. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 14:54, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
:It's disobedient, no matter whether it's intentional or not. Besides, if you want to get technical, Chimchar, during the events of ''[[DP081|Chim-Charred]]'', was very similar to Psyduck, and yet is also listed in it's trivia section as being the second fire type belonging to Ash that disobeyed him (and fourth of Ash's Pokemon overall to disobey him), the first being Charizard. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 15:46, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
::It's not disobedient because of ignorance, it's disobedient because of stupidity. That's different. -[[User:Sketch|Sketch]] 15:49, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
:::Were you talking to me or to Jmath? BTW, were you for the part of relocating of that trivia to it's own bit? Because it was still disobediance, therefore, Dawn's only the second main character other than Ash to have a disobedient pokemon, regardless of whether it's clueless or deliberate. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 15:51, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
::::I know I'm just getting involved because of RC watching, but my two cents is--who cares? Will this "(Character) is the (n)th person shown to have a Pokémon, in this case (whoever), disobey" format continue for ALL disobedient Pokés? If so, that seems...kinda unnecessary. -- '''[[User:evkl|evkl]]''' [[User_talk:evkl|(need to talk?)]] 15:57, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
:::::Well, I guess you might as well remove most of those things in Dawn's Trivia section, since almost half of it just compares her to some characters. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 16:03, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Read my first post. Its NOT disobedient. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 20:46, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
:Look, Obedience means following orders. It doesn't matter if the character is rebellious or just plan clueless, if they don't follow orders, they're disobedient. it's that simple. It's a moot point anyways, since Kenji-girl, one of the high ranking members of the site, has already stated that, whether he was intending to be disobedient or not, it still counted as a disobedient pokemon, and therefore, Dawn's only the second main character aside from Ash to own a Disobedient pokemon. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 20:54, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
::Could you blame a child for being disobedient for not knowing advanced mathematics??? Then why don't people punish them or something? [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 22:58, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
:::When did Ash actually punish Charizard? when did Dawn actually punish her Mamoswine? I don't recall them actually punishing their pokemon. In fact, the only character whom I would say actually punishes pokemon would be Paul. And anyways, no matter how hard you argue, unless you have another mod on your side, it's already written that Misty already owned a disobedient pokemon before Dawn ever appeared on the show (and considering how, like you, she also thought I obssess about Misty, that's saying quite a lot.) [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 23:04, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
::::Sure...Its real smart to punish powerhouses like Mamoswine and Charizard. They are going to eat you alive! And you still haven't answered my question. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 23:08, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
:::::Mamoswine is a vegetarian, so it can't eat dawn even if it wanted to (It's based off of the Wooly Mammoth, a herbivore.). You do have a good point on Charizard, though, though then again, Paul was known to punish any of his most powerful pokemon (I mean, he probably was going to do something bad to his Torterra when found oud it was teaching Ash's Grotle how to improve itself.). Anyways, I thought that question about Charizard and Mamoswine WAS my answer. either way, please stop, as Kenji-Girl had already agreed with me about the entire thing about Misty being the first main character other than Ash to own a disobedient pokemon. If you have a problem with it, take it to her. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 23:19, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

I looked up "disobedience" and it means '''willful''' refusal to follow orders. Chimchar and Psyduck both don't fall in this category. That proves your point wrong. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 23:23, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
:even still, she still agreed with me, as, willful or not, it still didn't follow orders. Again, I suggest you take the complaint to Kenji Girl, as she was the one who agreed with my views and put the thing in. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 23:25, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
::So what? We have proof that Psyduck didn't "disobey". And Kenji-girl probably didn't know the exact meaning of the word. (I didn't until I looked it up) [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 23:31, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

== Look ==

No matter how you twist it, it's still speculation. I've protected the talk page for now so it doesn't suffer anymore clutter. Now find something useful to do besides arguing with everyone. No one agrees with you. It's speculation. You can't compare speculation to fandom and fansite articles. So knock it off already. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 02:25, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
:Even IF everyone agreed with me, it's still speculation. And besides, Wikis ALSO have a code where they DON'T allow Fanwank on them. Also, Pokeshipping is still speculation, which means it shouldn't even exist on Bulbapedia. Besides, how is that confirmation from Hidaka not speculation. Heck, if I made something up in regards to my company and what we were doing, REGARDLESS if I was a CEO or not, I'm still speculating. This only proves that you don't know what speculation is, or even if you did, you're too arrogant to actually see it. I mean, heck, even you yourself bring in speculation into articles, should you be removed due to that? [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 02:31, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

:P.S. Another thing, seeing how WPM has actually BEEN with him, AND has had actual experience with the interview, it's NOT speculation. I mean, in order for it to be speculation on WPM's part, he has to not have been there, and only have heard of it. Even IF it were actually speculation, by that logic, seeing how the writers make mistakes in their judgement most of the time, even someone who works for the Pokemon Company/Gamefaqs is speculating, seeing how even they themselves don't know what's truly in store. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 02:36, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

::Why do I even waste time talking to you?
:#Shipping has its own space. We warn that it contains speculation.
:#If Hidaka actually confirmed something by speaking, such as the reason why Tracey replaced Brock, than it's not speculation. If he has a weird reaction to a question and you assume its because he's not allowed to speak of Platinum, than it is speculation. I don't care how much experience WPM has with interviewing people. He's not psychic. His thoughts are not confirmation.
:#I know what speculation is. You apparently can't tell the difference between fanon and speculation.
:#What speculation do I bring? Please show me. Not counting Shipping of course. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 02:42, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

::What are you talking about? I wasn't saying that he wasn't allowed to speak of Platinum. I was saying he didn't know about platinum. If anyone was actually saying he was not allowed to talk about Platinum, it was J-J-M. Stop crediting/blaming things on me that I didn't even do!
::And I don't care if Hidaka WAS the original director or not, What he says still counts as speculation, because he doesn't have absolute knowledge of the franchise.
::As for things like... your speculations, other than the Shipping part, you've speculated on comparisons between sonic characters and pokemon characters. Personally, I don't see why Shipping shouldn't count. I mean, if it's speculation, it's speculation, and if the rules absolutely forebade speculation, then Shipping articles shouldn't exist, period, no matter what your stance on them is. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 02:55, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
:::LOL that's what you're talking about? Those comparisons are on my USERPAGE. Userpages are NOT part of the mainspace. Neither is Shipping. Masamitsu Hidaka IS on the mainspace. Now I get it. You clearly don't know the difference between userpages and mainpages. Hey if you want to mention your speculation on whether he knew of Platinum or not, put it on your userpage. That would be acceptable. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 03:03, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
:::@Weedle-SHIPPING HAS ITS OWN SPACE. HOW MANY TIMES DOES SHE HAVE TO TELL YOU THAT? ''IT'S NOT IN THE MAINSPACE. NEITHER ARE USERSPACES''. AND TAKE AN ENGLISH CLASS! WITH ALL THOSE GRAMMATICAL MISTAKES, NO WONDER EVERYONE HATES YOU! DAMMIT FIND SOMETHING MORE CONSTRUCTIVE TO DO THAN F***ING ARGUING WITH EVERYONE, YOU...
@KG-What userpage? He doesn't even have one. [[User:Alpha Totodile|'''Alpha''']] [[User talk:Alpha Totodile|'''Totodile''']]
::::Now now, everyone, let's respect the {{bp|code of conduct|COC}}. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 00:38, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

== éééééééééééé ==

Use the '''é'''. It's Pokémon, not Pokemon. It's right there on the character palette begging to be clicked. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 00:23, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
:Remember this. I see you don't still use the é. By not using it, you cause extra work to other people correcting your grammar. Also, "dub" and "original" are not proper nouns. '''UltimateSephiroth''' ([[User:UltimateSephiroth|about me]] · [[User talk:UltimateSephiroth|chat]] · [[Special:Contributions/UltimateSephiroth|edits]]) 21:42, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

== Your grammar ==

is absolutely horrendous. The amount of times people have had to point out your grammar mistakes--the spelling of Pokémon, the difference between it's and its, and random capitalization--is absolutely ridiculous. I speak on behalf of all of the community here at Bulbapedia: it's time for you to actually heed warnings and make improvements. If any of us don't see any honest improvement with your edits, it will become a punishable offense. You must learn the rules of grammar--because the lack of proper grammar makes this site seem like it is run by a bunch of ten-year olds. ''[[User:Maverick Nate|'''Maverick''']][[User talk:Maverick Nate|'''Nate''']]'' 15:04, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

== Reverting ==

If an edit of yours is reverted, it's a bad idea to go back and undo it. If you really feel that strongly about your edits, discuss it on the talk page. Don't get into an edit war. --[[User:PAK Man|PAK Man]] [[User talk:PAK Man|Talk]] 16:24, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
:I discussed it on DP049 with other users. In fact, it happened long before the League was even planned out. But just in case, I made a response on [[Talk:DP049]], where we did have this discussion. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 16:32, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

== Norman ==

Can you tell me where Norman actually says he is supposed to be the third Gym Leader faced? In the games and in the anime, he winds up fifth in each case, and IIRC his only reference to three (see my edit to [[Badge]]) is in AG003 saying three Pokémon are needed. If he does say he's supposed to be third, I'd like to know where because I've never seen that. If my understanding is correct, Hoenn is therefore handled by Ash and his friends like all regions before it (Norman came fifth because they were "near Petalburg" again, which doesn't make sense in the games; convenience, I guess, in the anime), and Norman's Gym requirements are the only thing that stopped him challenging there first. [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 15:52, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
:That might have been a mistake (claiming he was actually supposed to be the third gym leader, I mean). But Norman DOES state in the ending of the episode that Ash was supposed to actually challenge him later on, and then points to Rustboro as being the first gym Ash should face. That would imply that there was indeed supposed to be a specific order trainers were supposed to face the gyms, at least in Hoenn. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 15:58, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
::[https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=R3vMoSgzBIM#t=1166 Here's the episode.] I set it to start at the beginning of the final segment, but you can watch it in full if you'd like. Norman NEVER said he should be challenged later on. If you can show me where he says it, then that's fine, I just don't see what you say proven in the anime. [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 16:07, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
:::This is from the summary of the episode on this website: "Later back in front of Norman's Gym, Norman explains that he's actually a Gym Leader Ash is supposed to fight later on. The first Gym he should try is the one in Rustboro City" This is right near the end. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 16:07, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
::::I'll visit there, then. Here are Norman's lines from the ending:
::::*"Your brother does know a lot about Pokémon and just might be a big help to you."
::::*"Ash, would it be too much of a bother if Max traveled along with you and May?"
::::*"I have a little something to give the both of you: a badge case to hold your winning Gym badges." (A grammar error here, too.)
::::*"And son, this is for you."
::::*"With one of those, you'll always know exactly where you are."
::::*"I suggest that you first travel to the closest Gym from here, and that's located in Rustboro City."
::::*"You do your best!"
::::Nothing about being faced later, so I'll go edit that article too. Thanks for the tip. [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 16:16, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
Never mind, that's another Website. I think I've proven that the other Website is not reliable. Do you have a link? [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 16:17, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
:Never mind again, I've edited [[AG003]]. [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 16:20, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

== Blocked ==

Weedle, you have been blocked for a duration of seven days for your edit war on [[Mewtwo Returns]]. You are well aware that edit warring is not permitted on Bulbapedia, and that the proper course of dispute resolution is to use the article's talk page to discuss the changes in dispute. Take this time to re-familiarize yourself with Bulbapedia policy. Thank you, - [[User:Kogoro|'''Kogoro''']] '''-''' [[User talk:Kogoro|'''Talk to me''']] - 22:14, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

== Pocket Monsters: The Animation ==

Can you refer to it as ''[[Pocket Monsters: The Animation]]'' so that it shows up on the wanted pages and shows that it needs to be created? Also, do you personally have a copy of the book? --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 02:04, 20 September 2015 (UTC)
:Sure thing, I'll do that in my next edit. Also, I don't personally have a copy of the book, but I do know someone who does: http://cindysuke.tumblr.com/post/34817930237/the-facts-about-pokemon-world-lol [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 02:06, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

== The Preview Button ==
Instead of editing a page several times in a row, try using the preview button to make sure your edit looks the way you want it to. It's right next to the Save Page button. Please try it out, so as not to clog up the Recent Changes. Also, if you want to edit multiple sections of the page, make sure that you click "edit this page" at the top of the page rather than editing it by section. Thanks! --'''—★[[User:Reshii|レシイラム]]''''''[[User talk:Reshii|talk]]''' 11:16, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

== TV Ratings ==

Do you have a source for that? If you do, then state the source. Don't make other users guess and think that it's BS. If the source is Dogasu, then state that you got it from Dogasu. You have been here longer the I have to know that you should always source your information.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 04:35, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

== Serebii ==

Hi! I just want to make sure you know that we cannot take any information from Serebii as it appears you have done for [[Special:Diff/2462919|this Simisear information]]. If you see something on Serebii, make sure you can source it elsewhere first, and even then make doubly and ''triply'' sure that whatever you end up writing here still does not end up copying Serebii. Again, we ''cannot'' take things from Serebii. I hope you understand. =) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 23:21, 25 June 2016 (UTC)
:[[Special:Diff/2500010|This]]... Just to hammer this home: '''''NOTHING''''' is ever to be taken from Serebii, '''''period'''''.
:So, tell me... What is your source regarding XY137? Is it just Serebii? [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 15:05, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
::Serebii made it pretty clear that it came from Newtype Magazine. Here's what it had to say of the episode:
::"'''The Newtype magazine in Japan has revealed another new episode title, this time for the fourty-fourth episodes of Pokémon XY & Z.''' These episodes is set to air on October 6th, following another week break on September 29th. This episode features Clemont helping rebuild Lumiose City Gym after the Team Flare attack.
Episode 940: We Start at Zero! Clemont's Decision!!"
::If that doesn't qualify as a source besides Serebii, I don't know what does. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 15:20, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
:::I'm honestly just disappointed, Weedle. You have been here for a good amount of years and are still making the most simplest of mistakes. Serebii does not qualify for a source, regardless of what he says. He doesn't even post an image of the magazine scan, so no, it's not clear it came from a magazine scan. Saying something does not immediately make something true if you don't show the evidence.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 15:28, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
::::Given your comment [[Special:Diff/2499984|here]], I was also curious where you got "はじまりはゼロ！シトロンの決断！"? [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 15:31, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
:::::I got it here: http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/XY137 [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 16:53, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
::::::Pokemon Wikia isn't a credible source either, because they could add that title just like you could add it here. It isn't an official website. Once there's a picture for the title, it will be posted. [[User:Playerking95|Playerking95]] ([[User talk:Playerking95|talk]]) 16:58, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
:::::::In short, keep in mind that these things should always be ''verifiable''. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 17:02, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

I'd like to add, if your only source for English translations of new episode titles is Serebii, please don't try to use that (even changed a bit) to add the episodes here. That's still basically copying Serebii. Just leave it until someone else can make an independent translation. At worst, post the sources somewhere and let someone else create the episodes with independent translations. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 17:07, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

== PokeSpe reference ==

You are not right by saying that the implication of Silver being Giovanni's son in FR/LG and the subsequent confirmation of this fact in HG/SS is a PokeSpe reference in the games. It was the games that first mentioned the fact. PokeSpe decided to make Silver Giovanni's son only in FR/LG Chapter, which was after the release of FireRed and LeafGreen. So, it is the manga that referenced the game, not the other way 'round. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 16:14, 24 August 2016 (UTC)

== New episode pages ==

When creating a new episode page, please use the {{template|New episode}} template. Otherwise, you get copy/paste errors like with what you did for [[XY138]] and [[XY139]]. Thank you. --[[User:Carmenstar97|Carmen★]] ''[[User talk:Carmenstar97|(Talk |]] [[Special:Contributions/Carmenstar97|contribs)]]'' 13:33, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

== Linking moves ==

Whenever you're linking to a move article, it's important to use the <nowiki>{{m}}</nowiki> template, as shown, to avoid using redirects. For example, <nowiki>{{m|Dark Void}}</nowiki> is the correct usage, not <nowiki>[[Dark Void]]</nowiki>. Just so you know. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 00:16, 30 September 2018 (UTC)

== English Celebi ==

Are you playing a game set to the Japanese language or a system and game from the Japanese region? I have doubts about Celebi having English text for the Japanese region. '''[[User:Lady Ariel|Lady]] [[User talk:Lady Ariel|Ariel]]''' 02:00, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
:I'm playing an English game set to the English language and I downloaded the game from the Nintendo eShop channel on the English Nintendo 3DS. Nothing Japanese at all regarding the game (well, aside from it in general was originally made in Japan, I mean.). I also managed to [https://otnesse.tumblr.com/post/179272822979/proof-that-the-wondercard-description-is-in photograph] it as well. Sorry for it being low quality, but I'm not sure how to get it directly from the game a'la Serebii.net. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 10:01, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
:EDIT: Sorry, now I see what was going on. Shouldn't have done that, dang it. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 10:03, 21 October 2018 (UTC)

== Link templates ==

Hey! I'm going to have to encourage you to read the site's {{bp|list of link templates}} again. Using <nowiki>{{an|Rotom Pokédex}}</nowiki> or simply <nowiki>{{Rotom}}</nowiki> is highly encouraged, not <nowiki>[[Rotom Pokédex (anime)|Rotom]]</nowiki>. Thank you. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 20:24, 6 October 2019 (UTC)

== Using Serebii as a source ==

Once again, you are using Serebii as a source when you know full well that he is not a valid source. It doesn't matter if he's right, just do no use his site as your source. Period. Your source should be the official Japanese site, not someone repeating what the Japanese site is saying.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 13:49, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

== "Advantage" ==

While I acknowlege some of your Team Rocket vs. Caterpie argument, "advantage" doesn't mean that Ash was guaranteed to beat Misty; it simply means that he was objectively in a favorable situation prior to the battle being interrupted (and since this was acknowledged by both Trainers, it's not simply speculation). I decided to rewrite that particular part entirely anyway, but I just wanted to clarify that. In the future, please try to use the talk page instead of edit warring (although I admittedly shouldn't have made that last revert either, so I apologize for that).

Additionally, I never claimed that you were being biased: I actually think you removing the previous wording of "about to win the battle" was the right decision, hence why I decided to try slightly rewording it instead. However, if you're going to say things like "regardless of my views on Misty", "even IF I believed Ash was owed a genuine win", and "my own personal views on the match were irrelevant"... of course I'm going to begin to question if you're truly attempting to be impartial here (especially given your history of Misty-related edits over the past 15 years). [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 10:18, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

:Fine, I'll grant you that much regarding your points, and that your wording was better. Though to be fair, Caterpie was also in extremely low health at that time as well thanks to its earlier near-death against Pidgeotto and... well, you know the rest of that battle and how it turned out for everyone involved (and it was also fairly explicit that it was weak even before the fight against Pidgeotto, much less Team Rocket. After Ash's attempt at capturing Pidgeotto outright without weakening it first just resulted in it escaping easily, Misty reminded him that he needed to battle it first, and also specifically stated the only reason Caterpie got easily captured without a fight was because it was already weak beforehand). I might be fanatically loyal to Misty, I'll admit that much, but I still would have avoided using "advantage" even if I had the exact opposite emotional views of Misty (and in fact, back when I was still on Bulbagarden and the discussion popped up whether Ash or Misty would have won, I gave pretty firm arguments why it wasn't necessarily confirmed Ash was going to win, and made it very clear that my being a Misty fan had absolutely nothing to do with my rationale, and that if anything my rationale actually was tied far more to something that happened with Ash than it ever did with Misty and then cited that particular battle. Granted, PDL pretty much mocked my argument when I cited that battle, but still...). Yes, it's true that Starmie was explicitly low on health, but it's also true that it was still close enough to the water's edge that it merely needed to hop back in and regenerate, though it might need a bit more effort to pull it off. And I mostly had to mention that stuff repeatedly in case someone DID try to accuse me of being biased towards Misty due to past experiences on Serebii, Pokecommunity, and BMGf where they did repeatedly do that. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 02:50, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
::A bit late on this one to reply (eh, still less than 6 months), but your talk page comment for Misty's Starmie (which I replied to, but I figured it would be appropriate to go into a bit more detail here) got me to rewatch EP007 in both Japanese and English, and I believe you misremembered Staryu's situation. What Staryu was actually doing when it dived into the water was negating the usage of Stun Spore and Sleep Powder (kind of similar to Natural Cure, but with water rather than switching out), not healing itself, so the argument that Starmie could still regenerate itself in the water doesn't really hold up. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 22:46, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
:::I didn't actually mention Staryu at all in that argument (my main focus was Starmie, and if anything I didn't even CONSIDER Staryu's earlier dive into the water to alleviate itself of Stun Spore.), and for the record, Starmie's core wasn't even damaged (ie, it didn't crack. The blinking light simply meant it was low on health), which is the only way it won't be able to heal at all barring maybe a Pokemon Center. And even if we were to somehow use that rationale for how it doesn't hold up, Bye Bye Butterfree made it very explicit that Starmie (and presumably Staryu) most certainly can heal itself (and by that, I specifically mean heal its HP back upwards, not simply negating a status effect) when exposed to water, at least as long as its core was intact (there was a scene during Ash, Misty and Brock's confrontation with Team Rocket over the poached Butterfree where James used a sledgehammer on Starmie, landed a direct hit on it and sent it flying into a wall, causing it to slump down in a similar manner to its situation in Waterflowers of Cerulean City, then Misty grabbed a water cannon (presumably from within Team Rocket's hideout) and proceeded to spray a torrent on it, and then it came right back to full strength). And that's not even getting into how Starmie's Pokedex entries back then make it explicit that it can regenerate as long as its core remains intact. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 09:36, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
::::"''I didn't actually mention Staryu at all in that argument (my main focus was Starmie, and if anything I didn't even CONSIDER Staryu's earlier dive into the water to alleviate itself of Stun Spore.)''"
::::You may not have mentioned Staryu, but [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=EP007&diff=3592528&oldid=3592393 you stated here that Starmie could recover by jumping into the pool], which is what Staryu did earlier to negate Stun Spore/Sleep Powder, so I don't feel like it was unreasonable for me to assume that you used Staryu as a basis for that. If that's not the case, then I apologize.
::::"''For the record, Starmie's core wasn't even damaged (ie, it didn't crack. The blinking light simply meant it was low on health), which is the only way it won't be able to heal at all barring maybe a Pokemon Center.''"
::::I'm pretty sure my stance from the very beginning was simply that Starmie was in an objectively disadvantageous position. I never mentioned anything about its core cracking.
::::"''And even if we were to somehow use that rationale for how it doesn't hold up, Bye Bye Butterfree made it very explicit that Starmie (and presumably Staryu) most certainly can heal itself (and by that, I specifically mean heal its HP back upwards, not simply negating a status effect) when exposed to water, at least as long as its core was intact (there was a scene during Ash, Misty and Brock's confrontation with Team Rocket over the poached Butterfree where James used a sledgehammer on Starmie, landed a direct hit on it and sent it flying into a wall, causing it to slump down in a similar manner to its situation in Waterflowers of Cerulean City, then Misty grabbed a water cannon (presumably from within Team Rocket's hideout) and proceeded to spray a torrent on it, and then it came right back to full strength).''"
::::Bit of a sidenote, but it was Jessie that used the sledgehammer. As for the rest: I mentioned this on the talk page for Misty's Starmie as well, but I don't think using future episodes is the greatest counterargument. There are many instances of Pokémon displaying a certain trait for the sake of the progression of the episode, only for it to never be used again (which I'm pretty sure is also what happened here as well).
::::"''And that's not even getting into how Starmie's Pokedex entries back then make it explicit that it can regenerate as long as its core remains intact.''"
::::Those are Staryu's Pokédex entries you're thinking of, which is specifically for lost appendages rather than fully healing itself.
::::My main issue with your argument is that it's built too much on theoretical scenarios rather than what was actually presented within the episode itself. Sure, it's true that Starmie didn't "lose", but I never claimed that it did. I only stated that it was in an disadvantageous situation, which was acknowledged within the episode itself.
::::Also, you mentioned earlier that people have called you biased on Serebii, PokeCommunity, and the Bulbagarden forums. I only say this to try to offer some constructive criticism, but if there are three separate communities saying the same thing, I fear that there may be some truth within their words. If your initial talk page post on Misty's Starmie had been something like "Misty didn't really lose since the battle was interrupted, but I agree that it needs to be rewritten", I would completely understand. Instead, your post contained a fairly lengthy paragraph about the exact circumstances of the battle, theoretical ways in which the battle could have progressed, and a comparison to a separate episode. I feel like that's a bit much considering Temari44 only mentioned the Gym battle in a small part of their post. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 11:55, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
:::::"''You may not have mentioned Staryu, but [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=EP007&diff=3592528&oldid=3592393 you stated here that Starmie could recover by jumping into the pool], which is what Staryu did earlier to negate Stun Spore/Sleep Powder, so I don't feel like it was unreasonable for me to assume that you used Staryu as a basis for that. If that's not the case, then I apologize.''"
:::::I guess you could say Staryu might have been a factor, but even without Staryu, the episode Bye Bye Butterfree already made clear it can fully heal from being exposed to water. And that's not even getting into how Generation III later had Staryu and Starmie have an ability to outright heal from water type attacks (and it wouldn't be the first time they did abilities for Pokemon based on an earlier episode. See Rhydon and it having Lightning Rod as an ability in a direct reference to the infamous Aim for the Horn situation during Blaine's Gym Battle).
:::::"''I'm pretty sure my stance from the very beginning was simply that Starmie was in an objectively disadvantageous position. I never mentioned anything about its core cracking.''"
:::::It still would have been a definite factor in whether or not Starmie would have been in a disadvantageous situation or not (and I define "disadvantageous" as "absolutely no way to get out of trouble", not "small chance of getting out of trouble" but "literally 0% chance"). The only time where being exposed to water DIDN'T heal it was during the battle against Giselle when it was knocked into the pool (which, BTW, the person specifically referenced and I even agreed with him), and even there it was explicitly shown that Starmie's core had been smashed beforehand (which actually backs up its Pokedex entry if anything). If they wanted to actually indicate Misty was inevitably going to lose, they should have made sure to have Starmie's core explicitly crack from impact and then flash to imply that the core was damaged and thus cannot heal. And I realize full well they acknowledged it was that, but that unfortunately isn't enough since I've seen plenty of instances where they outright state an opponent is at a disadvantage with the person winning attempting to press the attack, only for the winning individual to end up defeated at the last second (like Tealc's fight against that fake Jaffah rebel leader for example, or to keep it contained to Pokemon like how Caterpie defeated Jessie and James, heck, how Ash turned the tide against Jessie during his Viridian Gym Match), or otherwise it being made clear afterwards that they weren't in any danger and just trying to increase drama [the latter bit I'm specifically thinking of how Gotenks in an attempt at staging a dramatic finish exaggerated how Super Buu is cleaning his clock, only for Piccolo to take it seriously and seal the Hyperbolic Time Chamber and it then being revealed after the fact that Gotenks was actually bluffing about losing meaning Piccolo blew up the entrance for nothing].). I would have said the same thing if it were Ash and Pidgeotto in their shoes (well, okay, maybe not quite to that level since unlike Starmie, Pidgeotto doesn't heal from absorbing water).
:::::"''Bit of a sidenote, but it was Jessie that used the sledgehammer. As for the rest: I mentioned this on the talk page for Misty's Starmie as well, but I don't think using future episodes is the greatest counterargument. There are many instances of Pokémon displaying a certain trait for the sake of the progression of the episode, only for it to never be used again (which I'm pretty sure is also what happened here as well).''"
:::::Fine, I stand corrected regarding who used the sledgehammer, but my point still stands. And for the record, what you used as a counterargument is a very bad argument in itself, since I can easily use that exact argument to just shut down the wiki altogether and delete all articles precisely BECAUSE they do progression and never bring it up again, thus can't qualify as facts, thus can't allow for an encyclopedia or even summaries (I'm an all or nothing kind of guy). Either way, the fact that Staryu and Starmie later on got Water Absorb would indicate they thought specifically of that scene when deciding on those abilities for them (similar to Rhydon having Lightning Rod), so more likely than not it has that ability. Heck, Misty's Starmie's article even specifically noted that it carried at the very least a similar ability to Water Absorb and cited that particular scene.
:::::"''Those are Staryu's Pokédex entries you're thinking of, which is specifically for lost appendages rather than fully healing itself.''"
:::::Being the evolved form of Staryu, I'm pretty sure Starmie probably retained that ability. Heck, its article even indicated it had regenerative abilities as well.
:::::"''My main issue with your argument is that it's built too much on theoretical scenarios rather than what was actually presented within the episode itself. Sure, it's true that Starmie didn't "lose", but I never claimed that it did. I only stated that it was in an disadvantageous situation, which was acknowledged within the episode itself.''"
:::::As I stated above, the problem is that there have been plenty of instances where they stated they were in a disadvantageous situation in an episode or even a game (both inside the Pokemon anime and even in other franchises), yet the person at a disadvantage outright prevailed against the superior opponent, so that unfortunately isn't even enough to acknowledge that bit (as when I think of disadvantageous situations, I specifically have in mind instances where there's no way to get out of trouble, and by "no way" I mean literally 0% chance of survivability, let alone prevailing.). That's why I still think the situation was very ambiguous ESPECIALLY given Starmie's later being revealed to have a similar ability to Water Absorb during the events of Bye Bye Butterfree. Heck, if anything, Ash's Caterpie came far closer to actually BEING in an explicit disadvantageous situation when he fought Ekans, Koffing, and Meowth due to having the entire deck stacked against him (aside from the illegal at the time 2-on-1 match that Team Rocket forced Ash into, their Ekans and Koffing had significantly more experience than it, plus the fact that both were Poison-types, which gave them a type advantage over his bug-type status, and they had even managed to easily take out Ash's Pidgeotto, who at that time nearly made Caterpie its lunch thanks largely to Ash's stupidity earlier, and that's not even getting into how it was close to fainting by that point thanks to that earlier battle, and even without the Pidgeotto battle was weak enough that Ash didn't even need to battle it just to capture it. Note that I said "came far closer to", not actually WAS a disadvantageous situation, because ultimately Caterpie prevailed).
:::::"''Also, you mentioned earlier that people have called you biased on Serebii, PokeCommunity, and the Bulbagarden forums. I only say this to try to offer some constructive criticism, but if there are three separate communities saying the same thing, I fear that there may be some truth within their words. If your initial talk page post on Misty's Starmie had been something like "Misty didn't really lose since the battle was interrupted, but I agree that it needs to be rewritten", I would completely understand. Instead, your post contained a fairly lengthy paragraph about the exact circumstances of the battle, theoretical ways in which the battle could have progressed, and a comparison to a separate episode. I feel like that's a bit much considering Temari44 only mentioned the Gym battle in a small part of their post.''"
:::::Hey, I tend to get very detailed in my replies. It's basically a quirk of mine due to both my aspergers and also my parents specifically demanding I get more detailed in my answers rather than saying "just because", "I felt like it", or even going extremely general about who "they" are when I say "people". As far as that big about Bulbapedia, Pokecommunity, and Serebii.net, usually it's just the same people who happen to be members of all three sites, and either way, just because three entities claim something doesn't necessarily make it true. Just ask the coverage about the Vietnam War by the major networks. All showed the worst aspects about Vietnam, yet it eventually came to light that all of them, especially the so-called "most trusted man in America" Walter Cronkite, were extremely biased against the war and in Cronkite's case may have even up and out lied through his teeth during the Tet offensive. A similar story can be shown with the Trayvon Martin case. And I only replied in that sense because he specifically said that Misty lost that battle (and I wasn't even disagreeing with his overall argument that Misty's Starmie was weak. If anything, I fully agreed with his argument, including its loss against Giselle's Graveler, and only had a minor quibble with Misty's Starmie being stated to have lost the Cerulean Gym battle, and that's only because there was literally nothing to suggest it lost before Team Rocket interfered.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 21:36, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
::::::"''I guess you could say Staryu might have been a factor, but even without Staryu, the episode Bye Bye Butterfree already made clear it can fully heal from being exposed to water. And that's not even getting into how Generation III later had Staryu and Starmie have an ability to outright heal from water type attacks (and it wouldn't be the first time they did abilities for Pokemon based on an earlier episode. See Rhydon and it having Lightning Rod as an ability in a direct reference to the infamous Aim for the Horn situation during Blaine's Gym Battle).''"
::::::Neither Staryu nor Starmie have Water Absorb as a possible Ability.
::::::"''It still would have been a definite factor in whether or not Starmie would have been in a disadvantageous situation or not (and I define "disadvantageous" as "absolutely no way to get out of trouble", not "small chance of getting out of trouble" but "literally 0% chance").''"
::::::The definition of disadvantage is "an unfavorable circumstance or condition that reduces the chances of success or effectiveness"; it does ''not'' mean "0% chance of prevailing". Misty's Starmie was explicitly stated to be low on energy (but not actually knocked out), which means it was at a disadvantage.
::::::"''The only time where being exposed to water DIDN'T heal it was during the battle against Giselle when it was knocked into the pool (which, BTW, the person specifically referenced and I even agreed with him), and even there it was explicitly shown that Starmie's core had been smashed beforehand (which actually backs up its Pokedex entry if anything).''"
::::::I'm fairly sure that this "water healing" attribute was only ever displayed once in EP021. I don't think it makes a lot of sense to say "the only time where being exposed to water DIDN'T heal it" when it only happened ''once''.
::::::"''If they wanted to actually indicate Misty was inevitably going to lose, they should have made sure to have Starmie's core explicitly crack from impact and then flash to imply that the core was damaged and thus cannot heal. And I realize full well they acknowledged it was that, but that unfortunately isn't enough since I've seen plenty of instances where they outright state an opponent is at a disadvantage with the person winning attempting to press the attack, only for the winning individual to end up defeated at the last second (like Tealc's fight against that fake Jaffah rebel leader for example, or to keep it contained to Pokemon like how Caterpie defeated Jessie and James, heck, how Ash turned the tide against Jessie during his Viridian Gym Match), or otherwise it being made clear afterwards that they weren't in any danger and just trying to increase drama [the latter bit I'm specifically thinking of how Gotenks in an attempt at staging a dramatic finish exaggerated how Super Buu is cleaning his clock, only for Piccolo to take it seriously and seal the Hyperbolic Time Chamber and it then being revealed after the fact that Gotenks was actually bluffing about losing meaning Piccolo blew up the entrance for nothing].). I would have said the same thing if it were Ash and Pidgeotto in their shoes (well, okay, maybe not quite to that level since unlike Starmie, Pidgeotto doesn't heal from absorbing water).''"
::::::Again, a disadvantage is not an unwinnable situation. I also don't think the Gotenks situation is comparable since it was made clear to the readers/viewers that he was faking it even before Piccolo destroyed the door (and truth be told, Gotenks ultimately ''did'' fail to beat Super Buu because he's an idiot and refused to actually take the fight seriously until much later). [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 22:59, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
::::::"''Fine, I stand corrected regarding who used the sledgehammer, but my point still stands. And for the record, what you used as a counterargument is a very bad argument in itself, since I can easily use that exact argument to just shut down the wiki altogether and delete all articles precisely BECAUSE they do progression and never bring it up again, thus can't qualify as facts, thus can't allow for an encyclopedia or even summaries (I'm an all or nothing kind of guy).''"
::::::I'm sorry, but I feel like this is a huge stretch. My argument is based on information specifically presented in the episode itself, while yours is theorizing on how Misty could still make a comeback based on information ''not'' presented in the episode. I don't see how Starmie displaying a one-time attribute of being rejuvenated from a water blast in a later episode should be used as an argument for the Gym battle; Misty never said anything like "If I can just get Starmie into the water, I still have a chance".
::::::"''Either way, the fact that Staryu and Starmie later on got Water Absorb would indicate they thought specifically of that scene when deciding on those abilities for them (similar to Rhydon having Lightning Rod), so more likely than not it has that ability. Heck, Misty's Starmie's article even specifically noted that it carried at the very least a similar ability to Water Absorb and cited that particular scene.''""
::::::Just to reiterate: '''Neither Staryu nor Starmie have Water Absorb as a possible Ability'''. Their regular abilities are Illuminate and Natural Cure, along with gaining Analytic as a Hidden Ability starting with Gen V.
::::::"''Being the evolved form of Staryu, I'm pretty sure Starmie probably retained that ability. Heck, its article even indicated it had regenerative abilities as well.''"
::::::Again, this is used in the context of lost body parts. It's certainly not something like an immediate healing factor.
::::::"''As I stated above, the problem is that there have been plenty of instances where they stated they were in a disadvantageous situation in an episode or even a game (both inside the Pokemon anime and even in other franchises), yet the person at a disadvantage outright prevailed against the superior opponent, so that unfortunately isn't even enough to acknowledge that bit (as when I think of disadvantageous situations, I specifically have in mind instances where there's no way to get out of trouble, and by "no way" I mean literally 0% chance of survivability, let alone prevailing.). That's why I still think the situation was very ambiguous ESPECIALLY given Starmie's later being revealed to have a similar ability to Water Absorb during the events of Bye Bye Butterfree. Heck, if anything, Ash's Caterpie came far closer to actually BEING in an explicit disadvantageous situation when he fought Ekans, Koffing, and Meowth due to having the entire deck stacked against him (aside from the illegal at the time 2-on-1 match that Team Rocket forced Ash into, their Ekans and Koffing had significantly more experience than it, plus the fact that both were Poison-types, which gave them a type advantage over his bug-type status, and they had even managed to easily take out Ash's Pidgeotto, who at that time nearly made Caterpie its lunch thanks largely to Ash's stupidity earlier, and that's not even getting into how it was close to fainting by that point thanks to that earlier battle, and even without the Pidgeotto battle was weak enough that Ash didn't even need to battle it just to capture it. Note that I said "came far closer to", not actually WAS a disadvantageous situation, because ultimately Caterpie prevailed).''"
::::::Again, a disadvantage is not an unwinnable situation, just a situation that is harder to win from. There's nothing wrong with saying that Starmie was at a disadvantage, since that's what was displayed and stated within the episode itself.
::::::"''Hey, I tend to get very detailed in my replies. It's basically a quirk of mine due to both my aspergers and also my parents specifically demanding I get more detailed in my answers rather than saying "just because", "I felt like it", or even going extremely general about who "they" are when I say "people". As far as that big about Bulbapedia, Pokecommunity, and Serebii.net, usually it's just the same people who happen to be members of all three sites, and either way, just because three entities claim something doesn't necessarily make it true. '''Just ask the coverage about the Vietnam War by the major networks. All showed the worst aspects about Vietnam, yet it eventually came to light that all of them, especially the so-called "most trusted man in America" Walter Cronkite, were extremely biased against the war and in Cronkite's case may have even up and out lied through his teeth during the Tet offensive. A similar story can be shown with the Trayvon Martin case.'''''"
::::::This is an ''extreme'' comparison. One person's conduct on the Internet in regards to a fictional character from an anime is not at all equivalent to '''war or murder'''. At the very least, it's undeniable that a lot of conflict that you've run into on these sites are related to Misty (honestly, I can just look at earlier posts on this very talk page even before this particular discussion started). It's one thing to claim that you're not being biased and another to actually showcase that you're not being biased. You even admitted earlier that you're "fanatically loyal to Misty". [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 22:59, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
:::::::If I were to be biased regarding Misty, I'd have rewritten every loss she had to be eradicated and thus indicated she never lost (either that, or if I genuinely hated Misty, rewrite everything to outright EXAGGERATE her loss ratio to imply she has a similarly bad track record to Team Rocket). Not only did I not do that, I actually agreed with the guy who tried to defend Starmie's overall track record that the Giselle bit WAS indeed a loss (a story-required loss, yes, but a loss nonetheless, and if I agreed that the Giselle bit was a loss, that is indeed showcasing I'm NOT biased. Someone who truly IS biased towards Misty in terms of liking her would never agree to her having a single loss at all). No, I'm not being biased, even if I do have fanatical loyalty to Misty (someone who's truly biased would literally rewrite the entire wiki to either avoid listing any, and I do mean literally ANY flaws she might have, or exaggerate her flaws to such a degree that they come across as the absolute worst person to ever live). Heck, I have an absolute hatred of May and to a lesser extent Dawn, yet you don't see me editing their articles to paint them in the absolute worst light imaginable (which WOULD be the very definition of bias, BTW). If anything, I AM attempting to be VERY objective in my edits especially regarding Misty. Also, a huge amount of stuff on here literally only happened in single episodes, or so few episodes that they barely even matter, yet they're still noted as actually having happened as if they had any importance, so that's far from a rebuttal regarding whether or not Starmie could indeed heal from it (and once is more than enough to indicate it would happen). I might as well also point out that I focus on the connections between generalities and details, so I DON'T limit myself to whether it's demonstrated in a single episode or not. Otherwise, Ash's Ho-Oh connection is meaningless since they never bring it up since the beginning of DP, and his Aura abilities also only showed up a few times in DP. And I do agree ultimately Misty's Starmie was weakened, but we have no conclusive proof that it would have lost, period, hence why I tried to rewrite it the way I did earlier as that's the only actual way to write it. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 02:13, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
::::::::Everything that you're describing is simply bias taken to the logical extreme (i.e. to the point of being completely unreasonable), which is an exaggeration and doesn't actually disprove whether or not you're partial to Misty (which I think is fairly obvious at this point). Again, what's important in this instance is the info presented in the episode itself, which is less speculatory than thinking of ways that Misty "could" win or not. Again, I never said she actually lost. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 03:27, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

== Pokémon ==

When writing "Pokémon" or "Poké", don't forget to write the "e" as "é". Also, the word "Trainer" is capitalized. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 00:06, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

== Sensational Sisters ==

There's no indication in Japanese or English that Misty "quit" being a Gym Leader; she simply says that she left her sisters in charge of the Gym. Please don't just plainly revert me and discuss things on the talk page first. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 12:13, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
:I watched both Japanese with Subs and the English dub with Closed Captioning, and this is what she says when the topic is brought up:
:"When I saw you [Satoshi] battling, I just couldn’t sit still! So I left Hanada Gym to my sisters and set off on a journey."
:"After watching your [Ash's] battle, I just couldn't stay still a second longer! And so, I left the [Cerulean] Gym with my sisters in charge, and started a journey!"
:And while it's true that it doesn't use the exact word "quit" in there, it's pretty clear that's what's being implied especially when past episodes have made it clear that you can't engage in a Pokemon Journey while you're a Gym Leader (in fact, such a restraint was made explicit as early as [[EP005|Showdown at Pewter City]] from both Flint AND Brock, and I think Candace and Zoey both alluded to this restraint in that episode of Diamond and Pearl.). Besides, no one talks like that about a position they simply were on temporary leave from (I sure don't). That sounds more like the kind of talk a guy gives when he's about to quit his job for a better one. A good contrast would be her reappearance in Alola (second one) where she explicitly stated that a major part of why she went to Alola besides visiting Ash was to take a break from the swarms of Gym Challengers that were arriving. Either way, she definitely never mentioned the gym at all in JN147, much less resuming gym duties (the most we got was Brock eagerly telling Misty to say hi to her sisters for him before Croagunk toxic stabbed him), and considering most instances she either explicitly mentions she has to resume gym duties when she departs (Mirage Kingdom Arc, the Kanto, Alola arc) or otherwise its made very clear she had to resume Gym Duties (beginning of Battle Frontier where Daisy basically called Misty and threatened to hand badges out again if she didn't return, Mastermind as well since it's made explicit she was only there due to being invited alongside Oak and was most likely going to return to the Gym afterward), the fact that she makes absolutely NO mention of gym duties at all means she most likely wasn't going back to being a Gym Leader that time. Let's not forget, Brock also returned to Pewter City in the same episode, and he's repeatedly stated to no longer be a Gym Leader and thus obviously wasn't going to be resuming gym duties. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 12:29, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
::Most of what you've outlined is your own headcanon with no real proof that she quit being a Gym Leader, which you also just admitted to.
::''"I watched both Japanese with Subs and the English dub with Closed Captioning, and this is what she says when the topic is brought up:''
::''"When I saw you [Satoshi] battling, I just couldn’t sit still! So I left Hanada Gym to my sisters and set off on a journey."''
::''"After watching your [Ash's] battle, I just couldn't stay still a second longer! And so, I left the [Cerulean] Gym with my sisters in charge, and started a journey!"''
::Yes, I also watched both. Again, there's no mention of her quitting.
::"''And while it's true that it doesn't use the exact word "quit" in there, it's pretty clear that's what's being implied especially when past episodes have made it clear that you can't engage in a Pokemon Journey while you're a Gym Leader (in fact, such a restraint was made explicit as early as [[EP005|Showdown at Pewter City]] from both Flint AND Brock, and I think Candace and Zoey both alluded to this restraint in that episode of Diamond and Pearl.).''"
::I'm pretty sure that you just can't leave a Gym '''unattended''' without another Gym Leader looking after it. Brock was able to leave on a journey after leaving Pewter Gym in Flint's care (and Lt. Surge also left Vermilion Gym in Visquez's care while he went on his own journey). Both Flint and Brock were considered official Gym Leaders even as late as DPS02.
::"''Besides, no one talks like that about a position they simply were on temporary leave from (I sure don't). That sounds more like the kind of talk a guy gives when he's about to quit his job for a better one. A good contrast would be her reappearance in Alola (second one) where she explicitly stated that a major part of why she went to Alola besides visiting Ash was to take a break from the swarms of Gym Challengers that were arriving.''"
::Firstly, you can't claim that "no one talks like that about a position they simply were on temporary leave from" when plenty of people watched that episode without ever getting the impression that she "quit". Secondly, this is speculation.
::"''Either way, she definitely never mentioned the gym at all in JN147, much less resuming gym duties (the most we got was Brock eagerly telling Misty to say hi to her sisters for him before Croagunk toxic stabbed him), and considering most instances she either explicitly mentions she has to resume gym duties when she departs (Mirage Kingdom Arc, the Kanto, Alola arc) or otherwise its made very clear she had to resume Gym Duties (beginning of Battle Frontier where Daisy basically called Misty and threatened to hand badges out again if she didn't return, Mastermind as well since it's made explicit she was only there due to being invited alongside Oak and was most likely going to return to the Gym afterward), the fact that she makes absolutely NO mention of gym duties at all means she most likely wasn't going back to being a Gym Leader that time. Let's not forget, Brock also returned to Pewter City in the same episode, and he's repeatedly stated to no longer be a Gym Leader and thus obviously wasn't going to be resuming gym duties.''"
::Most of this is speculation (outside of her not mentioning resuming Gym Leader duties). However, my reworded edit didn't say that she resumed her duties, just that her sisters look after the Gym when she's away.
::I also maintain that you should not have reverted me twice before going to the talk page. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 13:16, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
:::Actually, Brock was repeatedly considered an ex-Gym Leader/Former Gym Leader by the Alola, Kanto arc (more specifically, the episode where Brock and Misty show them the ropes at Cerulean Gym regarding gym battles), which was well after the events of DPS02. I'd know, I watched it on PokemonTV when it came out with closed captioning. Even made particular note about that bit. Only Misty was specifically stated to be an actual current Gym Leader in that episode. And last I checked, Giovanni didn't explicitly make Jessie, James and Meowth Gym Leaders (they merely assumed they became Gym Leaders) and if anything his orders to them made it sound as though he specifically wanted them to guard against a possible attack on the Gym ("Use these [Pokemon] in the event of an emergency!"). And as far as Lt. Surge is concerned, quite frankly, ESPECIALLY after Brock was explicitly considered a former Gym Leader, ie, one who is no longer a gym leader at all, that means Lt. Surge isn't a gym leader by that point either (besides, Flint's not even a Gym Leader anymore, Forrest is, and most certainly was an official one by DPS02.). And the whole "unattended" issue is its own problem since, ignoring how Giovanni's apparently running Team Rocket without actually BEING at the gym prior to Battle of the Badge (afterwards, he most likely quit the position), we had Fantina being absent from the gym for a good long while, being absent TWICE, in fact, both times when Ash tried to challenge her, and didn't even get a slap on the wrist for it, much less had her gym priviledges revoked for it. And I still stand by my statement that there's no way Misty would say something like that if she wasn't quitting the position. And BTW, that stuff I described wasn't headcanon. That was evidence directly from the episode and related episodes. Want to know what ACTUAL headcanon is? Misty's parents being murdered by Team Rocket members and her nearly being killed by them as a baby, and then being adopted by the Sensational Sisters, stuff that had literally no basis whatsoever from the series and something I made up in its entirety (and yes, I actually DID write that as a fanfic). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 13:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
::::"''Actually, Brock was repeatedly considered an ex-Gym Leader/Former Gym Leader by the Alola, Kanto arc (more specifically, the episode where Brock and Misty show them the ropes at Cerulean Gym regarding gym battles), which was well after the events of DPS02. I'd know, I watched it on PokemonTV when it came out with closed captioning. Even made particular note about that bit. Only Misty was specifically stated to be an actual current Gym Leader in that episode.''"
::::None of this has any relevance to what I was talking about.
::::"''And last I checked, Giovanni didn't explicitly make Jessie, James and Meowth Gym Leaders (they merely assumed they became Gym Leaders) and if anything his orders to them made it sound as though he specifically wanted them to guard against a possible attack on the Gym ("Use these [Pokemon] in the event of an emergency!").''"
::::I never even brought up Viridian Gym since its circumstances are much different from other Gyms.
::::"''And as far as Lt. Surge is concerned, quite frankly, ESPECIALLY after Brock was explicitly considered a former Gym Leader, ie, one who is no longer a gym leader at all, that means Lt. Surge isn't a gym leader by that point either (besides, Flint's not even a Gym Leader anymore, Forrest is, and most certainly was an official one by DPS02.). And the whole "unattended" issue is its own problem since, ignoring how Giovanni's apparently running Team Rocket without actually BEING at the gym prior to Battle of the Badge (afterwards, he most likely quit the position), we had Fantina being absent from the gym for a good long while, being absent TWICE, in fact, both times when Ash tried to challenge her, and didn't even get a slap on the wrist for it, much less had her gym priviledges revoked for it.''"
::::First of all, Visquez is referred to outright as a substitute Gym Leader for Lt. Surge, meaning Lt. Surge is definitely still a Gym Leader. This leads to my second point...
::::You're quite mistaken on several things regarding the status of the Pewter Gym Leader, as well as the restrictions on Gym Leaders traveling. Brock left Pewter Gym to Flint in order to travel with Ash for a lengthy amount of time and was STILL considered an official Gym Leader by DPS02 as far as the Pokémon Inspection Agency was concerned. The Nurse Joy from said agency explicitly refused to battle Forrest at first, and would only accept a battle from Brock or Flint (meaning that Flint was ''also'' still considered an official Gym Leader). While Forrest had been conducting Gym battles prior to this, he was not the ''official'' Gym Leader since Flint never delivered the paperwork to officiate the change, and only obtained the title during the events of the episode itself.
::::Between Brock leaving Pewter Gym to Flint (again, both of them still had their titles by DPS02), Lt. Surge leaving Vermilion Gym to Visquez, and Clemont leaving Lumiose Gym to Clembot, there's no indication that Gym Leaders will lose their titles just because they decided to travel, provided that someone is running the Gym (and even then, Fantina was never penalized for being absent, as you've already mentioned). Even Misty already had the title of Gym Leader prior to the beginning of the series.
::::"''And I still stand by my statement that there's no way Misty would say something like that if she wasn't quitting the position.''"
::::Literally nothing about her dialogue indicates that she "quit". I have no idea why you're so convinced otherwise.
::::"''And BTW, that stuff I described wasn't headcanon. That was evidence directly from the episode and related episodes. Want to know what ACTUAL headcanon is? Misty's parents being murdered by Team Rocket members and her nearly being killed by them as a baby, and then being adopted by the Sensational Sisters, stuff that had literally no basis whatsoever from the series and something I made up in its entirety (and yes, I actually DID write that as a fanfic).''"
::::Your personal interpretation of events is still headcanon. I don't know what you're trying to prove here by talking about your fanfiction. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 16:29, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
:::::The first bit actually has quite a bit of relevance, since you stated Brock and Flint were both Gym Leaders, and I was pointing out that Brock WASN'T considered a Gym Leader by that episode (the Alola, Kanto Gym episode). They wouldn't repeatedly call him a "former" Gym Leader if he still was one, as former means he no longer is one in any capacity. And yes, they repeatedly stated "Former Gym Leader" in reference to Brock twice, I think three times tops in that episode. I counted it while watching it, and even took mental note of those bits when comparing Brock's battle with Misty's battle on Pokecommunity's forums. And bear in mind that episode was FAR more recent than DPS02. If they wanted Brock to still be the Gym Leader, in ANY capacity, they'd strictly refer to him as Gym Leader, NOT Former Gym Leader.
:::::But, fine, we'll keep it to your rendition, but I'm doubtful they'd have Misty make that kind of emphasis regarding her resuming her journey if she was still an active gym leader (even with Lt. Surge, he had to specifically confer it onto Vasquez, and going by DPS02, such had to be done formally to the PIA's knowledge for it to stick considering what nearly happened with Forrest despite Brock specifically making him a Gym Leader after Family that Battles Together Stays Together. And BTW, a "substitute" would strictly be temporary, and a Pokemon Journey's considered a long-term engagement, so having Lt. Surge engage in a Journey while leaving a substitute doesn't make any sense at all.). Either way, I'm still rewording it a bit to note that she took over as the primary Gym Leader due to her status as Gym Leader being made apparent as early as EP007, both English Dub and Japanese version, which her sisters didn't even deny, which you yourself pointed out.
:::::And my point with the fanfic bit is defining precisely what "headcanon" is. And what I pointed out from the episodes is NOT "headcanon", as it's literally what's shown in the Episode, and what is said in there. If I were to go by my own personal interpretations on an episode, I'd even go as far as to state blatantly false stuff like saying Misty torched the gym when she left just because, hey, I imagined (and by definition interpreted) her doing that before she left, despite it never being shown or even alluded to (not to mention would blatantly be out of character for Misty as she's characterized in the anime). If I were to do that, THEN you can denounce me as engaging in "headcanon." Otherwise, don't. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 19:43, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

User talk:Weedle Mchairybug

2024-06-15T19:52:09Z

Weedle Mchairybug: /* Sensational Sisters */

Psst. Capitalize your sentences. Don't capitalize random words that aren't important. Follow the {{bp|manual of style}} and good ol' English grammar. And accent that é in Pokémon! '''[[User:TTEchidna|TTE]][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 23:23, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

As {{u|TTEchidna}} said, Capitalize your sentences! And where did you get the idea that Misty was the champion of the Togepi competition? IT WASN'T REAL! It was a trap set by Team Rocket so that they could steal her Togepi for [[Colonel Hansen]]. --[[Special:Contributions/Kenji-girl|☆]][[Tracey Sketchit|ケンジ]][[User:Kenji-girl|ガール]] 21:53, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

WOW!!! Though your new, you put up a very good, strong point in arguements! I congratulate you on that! You should start making edits on regular pages, not just talk pages. Good Job!!! --'''[[User:Theryguy512|Theryguy]][[User:Theryguy512/Contribution Page|5]][[User:Theryguy512/Mission Page|1]][[User:Theryguy512/Games|2]]''' 22:21, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

== Errors ==

I really don't think they are errors, Ash has a long journey that's still going, you can't expect him to remember every moment that happened to him. [[User:TheBlazikenMaster|TheBlazikenMaster]] 15:00, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, yeah, but May's was just beginning and the Rubello convention was just after the Fallabor contest, so that same logic can't be applied there. And anyways, it's not that they HAVE to remember everything, but that doesn't mean they should act as though they never heard of it. I mean, that's like forgetting the day of your birth. Besides, how can he forget about a pokemon he owned?![[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 15:16, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
:You do realize its just a tv show. So the writers forgot to have him remember something. Thats an error.[[User:Darth Cookie Monster|Emperor's Cookies]] 15:20, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
::Ok, it fit under error, but just memory error. I still think it's not error as in "senseless". Ok, I am keeping those in the articles as it might look interesting. But I still think the word "forget" is a better way to describe it than "acted like he never heard of...", since that's what's happening, if you act like something never happens the best way to describe it is with the word forget. I am not planning on removing from [[EP233]] or [[AG072]], don't worry. But I still think the word forget is a better way to word it than "acts like he's never heard of". Besides, Ash only had the Primeape for a few episodes, I'm not surprised he forgot about it. [[User:TheBlazikenMaster|TheBlazikenMaster]] 21:14, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

== Misty's Togetic ==

Ok, u win, just fix the grammar!--[[User:Kuki|Kuki]][[User talk:Kuki|Talk]] 12:17, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
:Done and done. Also, thanks. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 12:24, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

== Brock: Only character who looks Japanese ==

WRONG! It's him, Flint, and the Harrison Kids!--[[User:Kuki|Kuki]][[User talk:Kuki|Talk]] 15:09, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Sigh, let me clarify, Brock is the only one of the MAIN characters who looked Japanese. Flint, his siblings, Harrison Kids, Ninetales owner, Suziko, and that Mime jr/Bonsly show director were either side characters or one-shots. If you edited it, I'll revert the edit and make sure I clarified what I was trying to convey
[[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 15:15, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

== Movie 11 ==
I am going to overlook the fact that you overrode an editorial member's contribution without even paying attention to whether or not it supported your point (for instance, you deleted the paragraph in which I stated that the movies marks Origine Forme and Sky Forme's debuts; how is that controversial?). It is childish conduct, but I am used to it by now.

You should have realized that the content I deleted was all ''conjecture''; I couldn't have very well stated erroneous or unfounded information when I only removed other members' conjecture, could I? It may be true that when the first movie was revealed we had good reason to believe that Palkia would tag along with Dialga, but even back then that was not clearly implied. Since then, Dialga and Regigigas have been shown to have some role in the movie on numerous occasions, whereas Palkia has all but been forgotten. As for the new Pokémon, early toy advertisements led some to believe that the unrevealed Pokémon would pertain to the next generation. Since then, Sky Forme has been unveiled and confirmed to be that very same unrevealed Pokémon, leaving no viable reason to suspect that that speculation could still have merit.

All of the above warranted the deletion of the conjecture from the page as soon as last month. But I have refrained from doing so because I knew that certain members' obstinacy could prove problematic. However, by now circumstances have changed due to the fact that the movie has premiered in an early showing in a limited number of Japanese theaters. We already have a synopsis that may not be full-fledged, but is good enough to remove doubt on the subject of Palkia and new Pokémon: They are nowhere to be seen. --[[User:Unown Lord|Unown Lord]] 09:13, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

== Try not to be so biased... ==

Even if Hidaka's statement did sound kinda sexist, well, shit, it's true. Have you ''seen'' the amount of 34 there is of Pokémon, and not just of the human characters? I'm sure you have. Face it, older fans are complete pervs, and it's not like giving Misty short shorts, May a huge rack, and Dawn a short skirt isn't just as sexist. Heck, you couldn't even PLAY as a girl until Crystal! It's not that they're being sexist; it's that they have the internet and know of all the stuff out there... and so therefore, like in ''[[DP039|Steamboat Willies]]'', fanservice, fanservice, fanservice.

Anyway, I reworded the statement, hoping to be more NPOV. Now I'm gonna go wash my keyboard off, because I don't wanna start becoming one of those acronym-throwing Wikipedos. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 23:22, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

:Actually, if I was being biased, I would have only inserted it into Misty's article, and not even have bothered to insert it in May and Dawns articles. Besides, technically, you can play as a girl before Kris, since Misty was playable in Pokemon Puzzle League. And since Love hina comes to mind, in my mindset, Fanservice = sexist. And anyways, May and Dawn were even MORE Fanservicey than Misty (I go by the definition that it's only fanservicey if the person clearly enjoys doing the scandalous thing, or at least implies the enjoyment [Like the majority of the characters in LH, for example.].). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 23:53, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

::I've said this already, but you do not control the definitions of words. Society does. Especially on a wiki, it's important to rely on objective definitions rather than subjective opinions. And even if we go by your definition, Misty clearly enjoyed showing off her body in the Porta Vista Beauty Contest, dressing in that Goldeen swimsuit, and in that mermaid costume, and I don't recall Dawn doing anything "scandalous" on purpose. --[[User:PsychoRobo|PsychoRobo]] 17:09, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

:::No, Misty DIDN'T enjoy the Porta Vista Beauty Contest. She said "It's so degrading, but I need the money" when having to do it, which meant that she didn't like showing off like a playboy model. Also, in regards to the Goldeen outfit, Misty ALSO didn't enjoy it either. She said something like "at least they aren't taking notice of me", which implied she didn't really like the situation she was in (much less having to wear that outfit.). The Mermaid Outfit, she didn't really like having to wear it (ESP. in "The Misty Mermaid"), especially considering that the only reason she did the part was because her sisters set her up (BTW, she refused several times, but eventually relented when she realized her sisters needed help in regards to it). Also, the only reason she agreed to wear the outfit in "Cerulean Blues" was to try and calm down Gyarados. that's FAR Different compared to something like... Oh, I don't know, May's clear enjoyment of stripping on the beach, or Kanako Urashima's complete gladness of stripping (and even doing it in front of her brother at one point.

:::As for what Dawn did that was scandalous, she dressed up as a French Maid (which was a common Japanese Fetish), among other things.[[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 18:46, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Main series games only--[[User:Kuki|Kuki]][[User talk:Kuki|Talk]] 23:53, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

::::Dude, who ''doesn't'' enjoy going to the beach? Besides, is May supposed to wear her regular clothes and GO SWIMMING? And don't forget, Ash wore those clothes too. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 00:56, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

:::::I was referring to the swimsuit contest, since THAT was what you referenced. Also, yes, it's a bit impractical for her to wear her regular clothes and go swimming at the same time, but that doesn't mean she should have stripped in a strip-tease fashion, with her brother practically begging for her to stop doing it, and both he and ash being embarrassed. It's not the question of whether they enjoy going to the beach or not, it's whether they enjoying causing a scandal or not. If you try to disrupt this one more time, I WILL end up being forced to post Love Hina Pics to try and prove what exactly I meant by Fanserviced girls enjoying doing scandalous things. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 01:18, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

::::::I've come to realize that that's what anime does. They're basically all the same. They make the girls into fanservice. Look at YuGiOh GX. The guys wear respectable uniforms while the girls trot around in mini skirts with huge breasts. Come to think of it, Pokémon is being pretty lenient when it comes to fanservice compared to other animes. Not all of the girls have huge breasts unless they are older women (Lorelei and Prof. Ivy). --[[Special:Contributions/Kenji-girl|☆]][[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 01:23, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

::::::: May also has the racks as well, which, along with the other things, makes me want to stop it. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 01:29, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

::::::::Pffsst. You call that a rack? I don't get why people think May's boobs are big. That's just my opinion. --[[Special:Contributions/Kenji-girl|☆]][[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 01:32, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

:::::::::Maybe they aren't as big as Prima's, but they are definitely far too large for her age. I mean, ask her side profile pictures if you don't believe me. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 01:33, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Love Hina pics? If I was more of the male Internet user stereotype, I'd jump for joy at the prospect, but at least someone else might garner "enjoyment" out of them. In the meantime, I'll prepare for the event by giving you a picture of Slave Leia (from Star Wars Episode VI) as soon as I'm back on Bulbagarden forums, because obviously it is not fanservice because she obviously did not enjoy it and it did serve a more meaningful purpose than showing off Carrie Fisher's sweet bod.

Crikey, you make such a big deal out of the "stripping" scene. If anything, it was Max's fault for suggesting that it was striptease in the first place, because, oh, maybe changing into swimsuits on the beach is normal? Besides, American cartoons are arguably worse with these kind of jokes, because several episodes have little boys running around naked (Dexter's Laboratory and The Fairly OddParents, as examples). And yes, controversy over children's TV shows have been done to death already in North America, so I guess you're out of a job when it comes to American cartoons. And I suspect (directed at Kenji-girl) that people think May's boobs are big because this is the Internet, where everything is blown out of proportion.

I laughed at your claim that Dawn dressing up as a French maid was scandalous. Okay, so Ash also dressing up as a maid is not scandalous? What about Ash's recent Tarzan outfit (check Bulbagarden's Ash Club for details)? Or are you being sexist against males by suggesting they can't be hot too? --[[User:PsychoRobo|PsychoRobo]] 15:31, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

:Look, I don't enjoy those things anymore than you do. I used that as a way to try and stop you from doing that (mocking me).

:Also, everyone else made a big deal out of the striptease as well! And anyways, blame the writers as well, since they set it up as a striptease as well. And also blame Ash for looking embarrased about what he just saw. and anyways, MOST people wear an undershirt when they go to the beach. They DON'T, however, go to the beach in their regular clothes and take them off in front of everyone. also, I barely even WATCH Fairly OddParents (as a matter of fact, my parents, as well as I, avoided that show like the plague for the same reasons they mostly avoid the Simpsons.), and while I used to watch Dexters Laboratory, I started to hate it when they did that musical episode.

:and another thing, an entire THREAD was made in regards to how Pokemon was becoming more fetishish and used Dawn's Cheerleader and Maid costumes as an example. I'll eliminate every single sexist action on this planet, male and female alike. Besides, how can I be sexist with my own gender? By being sexist towards males, I'm being sexist towards myself. And anyways, Ash didn't even WANT to wear the Maids outfit, as you can tell by his blushing out of humiliation.

:I have warned you that if you don't stop mocking me, I WILL be forced to post those pics if it stops you. And I will act on it, even though I feel as though this is a mistake. I have hated these pics, but they prove my point as to how degrading fanservice is, and most importantly, how the characters in question actually DO enjoy causing this scandal. You have brought this upon yourself...
:However, I'll be a bit merciful and delay it until I successfully upload the first part of my video, which, as soon as I download Version 12 of Pinnacle, shouldn't take too long, since the Images in question are ON this video. HOWEVER, that doesn't mean you are allowed to mock me. I mean, think of it this way, if your parents, or your friends (real life friends, I mean), mentioned their dislike of May OR Dawn, would you act the very same way towards them that you act towards me? If the answer is no, take that into account before you try to mock me again.

:[[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 16:17, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
::And that entire sexism thread lost all credibility after its first response, when Blackjack Palazzo claimed she wished to see more male fanservice. And there was another girl that said it was mostly males that argue over this kind of thing, and the girls don't see much of a problem. So much for feminism, eh? Plus, I don't know many males who would willingly cross-dress, besides characters like Harley, James, and Bugs Bunny. Ash's unwillingness to wear it is thus irrelevant. I also don't know what a musical episode of Dexter's Laboratory has to do with the discussion. Please stop throwing non sequiturs around if you wish to be taken seriously.

::Oh, you're being merciful? Well, that's just a bit more time to postpone posting Slave Leia pics on your account, then. Anyways, who said I didn't enjoy fanservice? It's so fun to mock.

::As for your last question, of course I would still act the same way towards you. Why should I let other people control the way I think? A lot of people don't like Pokemon in my school, so your "peer pressure" argument barely fazes me. Oh, wait, you're jealous, aren't you? You're jealous because I scored with the same Serebii mod that banned you. You can't believe that I could get on her good side while you ended up becoming the laughingstock of Serebii's idiot hunters, and that's why you put the "real life friends" part. Well, maybe if you weren't trying to usurp her position by judging everyone on the forum with your "holier-than-thou" attitude (kind of like Lisa Simpson), then maybe you wouldn't be in the position you are now! P.S. This is becoming increasingly irrelevant to Bulbapedia editing. If you wish to continue, put this on my Bulbagarden or Pokecommunity account (MetaRobo/PorygonSquared, respectively). [[User:PsychoRobo|PsychoRobo]] 16:48, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

== Linking to other wikis ==

When linking to other wikis, please remeber to use {{ }} around the link, not [[ ]]

Thanks. ♪♪[[User:ShinyPachirisu|Shiny]] [[User Talk:ShinyPachirisu|Pachirisu]] :) ♪♪ 00:38, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

== Let me explain something to you ==

Just because I said that it doesn't only apply to Misty doesn't mean you can go and put it on May and Dawn's pages.

The reason we have a page on SOVA, despite being a fan thing, is because it was a big deal. This isn't so much a big deal that caused fans to write hundreds of letters. Infact I doubt that many people even know about it.

We already mention what he said on [[Masamitsu Hidaka|his page]] and how some fans find it offensive. We don't need to affiliate the character with it as well. Yes it was a shitty thing to say but we don't need to be reminded of it everytime we visit Misty, May, or Dawn's pages. --[[Special:Contributions/Kenji-girl|☆]][[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 11:35, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

::Fine, I won't edit the pages, and I'm also sorry for my response on your talk page, while I'm at it. However, I'm only stopping because Hidaka's page already mentioned it. and anyways, as far as I'm concerned, if it doesn't apply to just one person involved, it applies to ALL people involved. So, next time you say something like that, try it in a way that I can understand. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 11:40, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

== Arceus/Mew dispute ==

I've put up a full explanation at [[Talk:Arceus (Pokémon)#Arceus vs. Mew]]. I don't mean to sound so aggressive, but there truly is no real basis for considering Mew the first. At best, it should be mentioned that the fan community considered it the first, but that was always fanon and never what the games actually claimed.

Again, sorry if I've offended you.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 06:32, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

:I also posted my response on that discussion. And also, Porygon MAY have been made later, but then, if it can't be a descendant of Mew, then HOW can Mew be able to transform into it? I mean, they HAD to have used some form of Mew's DNA in order for it to be able to transform into it and it's family (Besides, they used Mew's DNA to create Mewtwo, who's to say they used ALL of the Mew DNA to transform into it? Besides, the pokedex entries hint that the reason why Mewtwo is savage and aggressive is because they repeatedly spliced Mewtwo's DNA, so I'm guessing they may have used his DNA in Grimer/Muk, Castform, and, yes, even the Porygon Family, so in a sense, they are Mewtwo's Children, and thus, in a sense, Mew's Grandchildren. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 11:00, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
:::Replied on the talk page. As for your comment here, I'm sorry, but it is completely ignorant of any concept of genetics, especially the actual concept of [[wikipedia:RNA splicing|genetic splicing]] and what DNA ''does'', as well as the actual text of Porygon's Pokedex entries, and the in-game description of how {{m|Transform}} works.

:::Let me illustrate your basic misunderstanding - a child typically has distinct DNA from two sources ( a mother and a father). You may not know this, but the mother and father generally have ''completely'' distinct lineages, and share almost no DNA that all humans don't share - to put it simply, the mother and father are generally not brother and sister, or anything close.
:::Now, because of this, the child will have DNA from the mother ''and'' father. What you are claiming is analogous to saying that the child's father should be able to turn into the child's mother, because the child, his descendant, has DNA from his mother. But this is utter hogwash, and immediately recognizable as lunatic raving. The very use of sexual reproduction in macro-evolution is that it introduces '''''NEW''''' genes into the gene pool.
:::If transformation were inherent in the species ''at all'', it would be obvious to even the casual observer that it would be the ''child'' who could be expected to be able to transform into both the father or mother, ''as his very nature'' is to be a collection of both of their DNA.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 05:57, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
::::Okay, first off - you don't get to make ultimatums, that's not how a wiki works. Second off, where in the ''hell'' does the D/P Pokedex say that Mew is "believed to be the originator of all Pokémon", thought to "possibly contain the genetic code of every other Pokémon", or able to "learn every TM/HM"? Finally, how could "Arceus being the original one" and "Mew creating ''ALL'' Pokemon" ever be reconciled? They're necessarily contradictory!
::::However, to try and compromise with you ''without'' making up fanfiction and being dishonest about the Pokedex, I rewrote the section you keep adding without having removed it. Is this acceptable?[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 03:44, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::Fine, I thank you for at least keeping the gist of it. BTW, I wasn't lying about the Pokédex entry. As a matter of fact, I have copied and pasted Mew's D/P Dex entry from his article just for you to see it. here it is:
:::::'''''''Because it can use all kinds of moves, many scientists believe Mew to be the ancestor of Pokémon. '''''''
:::::And to further prove that I'm not lying, I ALSO am going to post a link:
:::::Bulbapedia.Bulbagarden.net/wiki/Mew_(Pokémon)#Pokédex_entries.
:::::Next time you try to accuse me of lying about it, read Mew's D/P pokedex entry first, since it still said that Mew was believed to be the ancestor of pokémon (the fact it said pokémon made it seem like it said all pokémon.).
:::::Also, I tried to reason with you multiple times, but you insisted that it shouldn't be in there, despite the fact that the Dex actually stated it, so I was forced to take drastic measures.
:::::[[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 10:33, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
::::::YEs, you ''were'' incorrect about the Pokedex entry - you claimed it specifically said those things, and ''it did not''. '''Those''' were the points in contention, and you keep trying to avoid them. The Dex does '''not''' "actually say it", so you're claim that I forced you to keep trying to pass off your speculation as fact is incorrect.
*Specifically:
#The DP pokedex entry says '''nothing''' about TMs/HMs.
#The DP pokedex entry says '''nothing''' about genetics.
#The DP pokedex entry says '''nothing''' about "''originating'' '''all''' Pokemon".[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 01:05, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
::Do I LOOK Like I care what the DP pokedex says?! I only care for what ALL of them said. And ANOTHER thing, they may have not explicitly mentioned "TMs/HMs", but the mere fact that Mew's DP pokédex entry said that it can use ''All kinds of moves'' implies that it can learn TMs and HMs as well, as well as natural, move tutors, and even moves only available from Metronome. As for Genetics, The closest thing it came to mentioning Genetics was in SSBB's Trophy, and besides which, the mere fact that it can learn transform (which is stated to be the recombining of DNA into the pokemon that matches that DNA) should be enough to prove it's the Ancestor. And for Originating All Pokemon. SO WHAT? The Pokédex entry ALSO didn't say it originated most, some, few, or even only one Pokemon, either. It just said "Ancestor of All Pokemon", and from what I can tell, especially with how people often interperet thing, if it doens't explicitly mention that it's only most, few, some, or only one pokemon that it is an ancestor of, that means it's the ancestor of All Pokemon. Therefore, Mew stated that it's ancestor of pokemon = ancestor of all pokemon.

::I also forgot to mention one thing. There's a Significant difference between Mew's transforming into a Pokemon and Ditto's Transforming into a pokémon. Ditto can only transform into a pokemon when it sees it [It's also implied that it can't go by memory], whileas with Mew, it's implied thar Mew can transform into any pokemon without necessarily needing to see it at first (as one of the problems with trying to get Mew in Emerald is that it can transform into pokemon, and in the Anime, it's been shown to transform into pokemon that it hasn't had any contact with, or at the very least not any direct contact [eg, Ho-oh, Taillow, etc.].).

::Even IF it's not directly mentioned in the D/P/P Pokedex, we must wait until GSDS comes out (if it comes out) or, assuming that there is one, generation 5 before we say that it's been retconned. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 01:23, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

== Wow! ==

In all the time you've been on Bulbapedia, you haven't made a single contribution to the Userspace! That's quite an accomplishment! --[[User:Politoed666|ニョロトノ]][[User talk:Politoed666|''666'']] 22:22, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
:Userspace? [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 22:37, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
::Its the user page and anything connected with it except talk pages. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[User:Jmath/Sandbox|'''th''']] 22:41, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
::Oh, that. See, it's in red spacing, and I'm not completely sure if I can create one. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 22:42, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
:::O.O You don't have to create a page... ♪♪[[User:ShinyPachirisu|Shiny]] [[User Talk:ShinyPachirisu|Pachirisu]] :) ♪♪ 22:44, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
==Legendary Genders==
it said none because Legendary's dont have genders! [[User:Mooites|Mooites]] 01:55, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
:Only in the games, though. Maybe you've forgotten, but a Baby Lugia DID appear in the show. If they didn't have genders, please explain how Silver even exists?! Heck, most of the legendaries had multiples in the anime, and if they don't have genders, how can they have multiple species at the same time? [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 02:16, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
::Asexual Reproduction? They are hermaphrodites? There's more methods of reproduction than male/female sexual reproduction, you know. [[User:PsychoRobo|PsychoRobo]] 22:11, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
::good point. [[User:Mooites|Mooites]] 02:19, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
:::Mooites, this is directed at PsychoRobo, so don't think it seems like i'm lecturing you. PsychoRobo, ONE. Next time you have to respond to my usertalk, or any talk page for that matter, place it AFTER the recent poster. TWO. Asexual Reproduction requires budding, for the most part. THREE, Hermaphrodites change genders (meaning, they change from female to male just to reproduce. So, in one sense, the Marril family are hermaphrodites.), so they would still need to mate in order to reproduce the same effect. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 22:35, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
::::First, to respond to three. The topic was whether legendaries had genders or not. Just because they need to mate doesn't mean they have defined genders. And to two, budding is not the only form of asexual reproduction. In fact, many creatures such as starfish and especially plants can reproduce with a fragment of the parent. [[User:PsychoRobo|PsychoRobo]] 00:06, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::I think Budding involves the separation of the original host, so Starfish actually DO bud to reproduce. Also, Plants technically require pollination in order to reproduce (the stigma is the male plant, the phyla is the female, the pollen goes to another plant, they make eggs known as seeds, get my drift?), so technically, it's not asexual reproduction. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 00:10, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
::::::Plants can regenerate asexually with one of their body parts removed, though. It's not their main option, but it is an option. [[User:PsychoRobo|PsychoRobo]] 14:51, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

== Edits ==

Please stop doing it. We can discuss it on the talk page. Just no more edits. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[User:Jmath/Sandbox|'''th''']] 22:07, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

:Fine, But the thing still stands. Now, if you want to add a footnote that this happened before the release of Platinum on the edits page (or request me to do so), fine, because that way, we'll have middle ground. I can say it's technically a out of order defeat, and you can say that it was before Platinum was released. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 22:11, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
::Anyway, where did you get that the order is changed? It isn't anywhere else here. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[User:Jmath/Sandbox|'''th''']] 22:13, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
:::Tv.com. The Platinum release thread. Specifically:

:::"Hearthome Gym is now the Third gym, Veilstone is the Fourth, and Pastoria is the Fifth

:::How dumb is it for Fantina not to have Drifblim. Her dress is best on it, and her gym in the anime was. "

:::"Oh, I didn't even notice the Gym order switch!

:::Yay, in Diamond and Pearl Fantina uses Drifblim in Super Contests, and since her dress is based on one I guess they'll let her keep that Driflblim. Now while the Drifblim/Duskull switch is odd, why in the world did they replace her Gengar with a Haunter? Just becuase she's no longer the fifth Gym they downgraded her Pokemon?

:::Though I do agree with the evolving of Gardenia's Cherubi into a Cherrim, hopefully Dawn will get one in the anime."

:::The Quotes were from SPDShadowRanger and Pikachu315111, respectively

:::[[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 22:23, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Are you sure what's written there can be taken as fact? How can some guy know that when the game hasn't even been released yet. Even Bulbapedia is not mentioning it. At least edit it when the game's released. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[User:Jmath/Sandbox|'''th''']] 22:26, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

:Considering how even Serebii (The webmaster, not the pokemon) is playing through Platinum as we speak, I'd say it already HAS been released. If serebii updated the site to include the changes in Roark's pokemon/Puzzle, It can be fairly certain that these others have played the game. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 22:30, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
::Then what is September 13 for? Some guys get special privileges? [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[User:Jmath/Sandbox|'''th''']] 22:34, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
:::I just changed the release date, and mentioned why in it's talk page. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 22:35, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

If you could make the footnote for that trivia, go ahead. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[User:Jmath/Sandbox|'''th''']] 22:41, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

== Style ==

Please read the {{bp|manual of style}} and familiarize yourself with English grammar before you edit too much more. Your recent edits to [[legendary birds]] spelled Pokémon as pokemon, used "it's", among as possessive, and has weird capitals all over the place, among other errors. --[[User:Martonimos|Martonimos]][[User talk:Martonimos|((Argh]]|[[Special:Contributions/Martonimos|Blargh))]] 20:57, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

== Delete? ==

Do you want your user page deleted?Can I put the tag on it? another user generously made one for you--[[User:DCM|DCM]][[User talk:DCM|((Nag at Me!]][[Special:Contributions/DCM|Edits))]]

== Speculation ==

Please don't put speculation in main articles; just put it on the talk page. [[User:Dialgarules|Dialgarules]] 01:30, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
:I'm sorry, but you ''really'' have to make sense on this site. You put Poké-ball when it SAYS IN THE WELCOME THINGY to say '''Poké [space] Ball!''' When you say that Meowth "prefers to walk around" it could mean a lot of things. You could say that it likes to be out of its Poké [space] Ball. How about you take a quick look at [[Bulbapedia:Manual_of_style|this]]? [[User:Dialgarules|Dialgarules]] 00:39, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

== Pokémon Heroes Subtitles ==

There are such things that are called, oh maybe you've heard of them, ERRORS. I've listened to it several times and it does not sound like "I'm sorry" to me. Sometimes the people making the subtitles mess up. Also the whole Misty catching Totodile thing doesn't float. That's a matter of opinion and making speculations because of the way the balls were thrown. Don't put any of these things on Totodile's page again.--[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 10:52, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
:Ok, but then again, technically, several other things like the Major events section, Trivia, and Errors section technically shouldn't appear in those pages either, since it's kinda speculation in and of itself, no matter how it's worded. Heck, the entirety of Bulbapedia's articles are speculation. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 13:42, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

== Anime abilities ==

Please do not add unconfirmed abilities to anime Pokémon pages. It doesn't matter if the only ability for a {{AP|Totodile}} is {{a|Torrent}}, or if the only ability for a {{AP|Larvitar}} is {{a|Guts}}. Unless it is confirmed in words in the anime, the ability stays as Unknown. The unconfirmed ability removal was started by {{u|Politoed666}} an EB member. - [[User:Kogoro|'''<sc>Kogoro</sc>''']] '''|''' [[User talk:Kogoro|'''<sc>Talk to me</sc>''']] '''|''' 04:34, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
:If that's the case, should we eliminate the majority of Psyduck's wins (or participations in battles in other words?), or heck, Pikachu's Participation in Round 2 of the Saffron Gym battle? I mean, they never explicitly said in the anime "I choose Pikachu"/"Pikachu, GO!" or "Psyduck, I choose you!" those times (if anything, the opposite is true, as with Psyduck, it pops out when she's choosing Staryu, Starmie, or some other pokemon, and Ash tried to tell Pikachu to avoid battling Kadabra.), and thus is the same thing, as far as I'm concerned (I also posted this for Politoed666 on Maverick Nate's talk Page.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 04:57, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
::Then understand what she meant to say and not what she literally said. Psyduck is ''used'' in the anime. Torrent is not. Pikachu is ''used'' in the anime. Guts is not. Abilities that are not mentioned and do not ever appear should not be put on anime pages. [[User:IIMarckus|IIMarckus]] 05:04, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
:::Even IF the ability is the only thing it's got?! I mean, common sense should dictate the fact that, if it's the only ability it can ever have, it is to be included in the abilities section, REGARDLESS if it's stated in the anime or not. Besides, Abilities ARE used as well (they activate under certain conditions). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 05:08, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
::::The anime and games barely match up at the best of times. You might as well be adding “Based on the moves such‐and‐such knows, it is probably between levels 34 and 40” to pages. Nothing suggests that the Totodile in the anime has Torrent. [[User:IIMarckus|IIMarckus]] 05:11, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
:::::On the case of the ability needing to be mentioned in words, how else would an ability be confirmed? Misty's Psyduck popping out of it's Poké Ball and battling is visual, so it's obvious without any words. It's rather hard to not notice the flash of light come from Misty's pack, then Psyduck standing near her. With abilities, it's a little less black & white. Unless someone like Brock says something like "Totodile's using its ability, Torrent!" we're not able to know that it's actually Torrent activating or not. I hope you understand now. - [[User:Kogoro|'''<sc>Kogoro</sc>''']] '''|''' [[User talk:Kogoro|'''<sc>Talk to me</sc>''']] '''|''' 05:41, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

== Grammar ==

The first letter of every sentence is capitalized, and Pokémon is spelled with an é and an uppercase P. You've been here long enough to know that, so you should have gotten it the first time. ''[[User:Maverick Nate|'''Maverick''']][[User talk:Maverick Nate|'''Nate''']]'' 15:45, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

:Please, please starting using better grammar. Stop making so many run-on sentences. And stop capitalizing words that don't need to be like ''dub''. Only capitalize the first word in the sentence, Pokémon names, character names, anything with Poké in front of it, and proper nouns. Also you use ''whileas'' in your sentences A LOT. Whileas is not a word. If you want, but really not needed, put ''while as''. But you really don't need it. Just say ''while''. And don't over use those parenthesis (). You use them way too much. And try not to add these extra words like ''merely'', ''actually'', or ''clearly'' unless absolutely needed. Thank you. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 06:05, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

== Ironically ==

Please don't over user the term 'ironically'. Thanks, --[[User:RexRacer|'''Rex]][[Quilava (Pokémon)|Racer''']] [[User talk:RexRacer|'''''-talk''''']] 15:52, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

== "Focusing" ==

There is a difference between an episode focusing on a particular character, and a particular character supporting them. For episode 232? That is not an episode focusing on Misty. Brock? Yes. Look a little more closely at these roles, then decide who it's focused on. -[[User:Sketch|Sketch]] 21:01, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
:Well, actually it's focused on both. You see, if it wasn't for Misty, Brock would have become the Ninetale's owner's reincarnate, and Ash would have also completely fallen for the deception, and Brock would also have never figured out that the Ninetales in question was just trying to relive it's memories of it's own trainer, so it's also focused upon in there. Now, if you want "supporting", Ash is a good example, He didn't initially think about it being a trick/illusion made by Ninetales, even claiming Misty was paranoid, and only started to believe when Ash saw Brock go through her.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 21:06, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
::Just because Misty figured out what Ninetails was doing doesn't mean it's a Misty focused episode. Stop trying to look for any little thing that makes Misty the focus of the episode. Like 133. Pikachu and Meowth were also the focal points of the episode so why didn't you think of adding Ash and Team Rocket as focuses. Because they are not. The focuses were the Pokémon. Not Misty. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 00:28, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
:::Actually, in regards to EP133, it's because Meowth and Pikachu already have their OWN episode focusing templates, so adding in Jessie James Ash or Team Rocket's episode focusing templates would have been pointless.

:::And anyways, she didn't merely just "Figure it out", she tried to warn Ash and especially Brock for a significant portion of the episode. See, anything a main character does that's significant to the episode as well as focuses on them for the majority of the time is a "episode focused on so-and-so" episode in and of itself, and Contests/Gym Battles and even Captures aren't enough. I mean, Jessie, for instance, won a ribbon in the episode where Ash beat fantina, was this a Jessie-oriented episode? no, because she was barely even focused on [in fact, unless I'm mistaken, which I probably am, i think the contest was actually not even shown until after Ash won the battle] the episode [[EP103|Misty Meets her Match]] was a similar scenario.). Now, if I added in the template for episode 001, then yes, your accusations would be legitimate, correct, and justified.

:::It doesn't matter anyways, as I have already completed the test anyways (Ash:40, Misty:46, maybe Ash:40, Misty:45 now.), and this was actually a test to see if Ash was truly the central character (the central character would usually have most of the entire show focused on him/her. As he didn't exceed Misty, he's not really a central main character.). the only part Misty had in it was to see whether she was actually equal to Ash, or rather, to set a fair comparison between the characters to have it be a fair test (I can't use Brock or Tracey, because that would be a no contest, and thus, an unfair advantage on Ash's part.). I also plan on doing the same thing with Ash and May in regards to AG, and Ash and Dawn in DP as well.

:::On a side note, I also did it to statistically find out which of the girls was actually close to being Ash's equal (I earlier speculated Misty, but I found out that she actually exceeded Ash), and I only did it because I have certain doubts of Dawn actually being equal to Ash (since I researched it, and noticed initially that Misty seemed closer to equality to Ash than May and Dawn were). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 01:08, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
::::Just because Togepi doesn't have a focusing category yet doesn't automatically make Misty the character of focus. News flash, Ash is the main character of the show not Misty. And there is WAY MORE THAN 40 episodes focusing on Ash. As for the female character that is Ash's equal, I believe it's Dawn. For someone who's been in the series for 107 episodes, she sure had a significant amount of episodes focusing on her. Maybe not as much as Misty, but Misty was around for 250 plus episodes. At the rate the show is going, Dawn will probably have more episodes than Misty. I know you might not like to hear that, but it's the truth. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 01:15, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

::::in regards to Togepi, if you are talking about Tanks a lot, it's because Misty pretty much organized the attack among other things. As for your claims that Ash is focused upon more than Misty (and more than 40 episodes), that's not even close to a true statement. I already did the analysis of all the episodes I could, outrightly ignoring those that are completely unknown. Also, Most of the Johto episodes didn't even focus on Ash at all (and also didn't focus on Misty, Brock, OR Team Rocket), Instead, it focused on COTDs with even Ash being nothing more than the Background, so, in all reality, Ash isn't the central character you think he is. If anything, it's you whose being more biased. I was trying to make it as fair as I can. There were even Gym matches that barely even focused on Ash at all, despite his participating in them (Case in point: Misty Meets her Match.) And also, the majority of the captures he made in the Kanto Saga either had him sharing the spotlight (Ash Catches a Pokémon, which not only dealt with Ash's captures, but Character Development from Misty as well, since a significant part of the episode dealt with her trying to cope with Caterpie despite her fear of bug-types/bugs.), or was never even in the spotlight in the first place (Charmander and the Stray Pokemon, as that episode dealt with Brock trying to help Charmander and all that, among other things, and Ash pretty much took Charmander.).

::::And also, I counted the episode listings thus far in regards to Dawn-centric episodes, and out of the 107 episodes thus far, only 20 episodes were actually focused on Dawn (see, in order for it to be a lot for a girl who has been in for 107 episodes, it needs to be, oh... 40 episodes in that range at least.). Misty had more by this time (7 more by the halfway point, and we just went by the halfway point already, as the 12th movie trailer implied that the upcoming 12th movie will be the last DP series movie.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 01:41, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
:::::This is the problem I have with your counting. Obviously there are others who do not agree that characters in certain episodes have "focus". Therefore your "statistics" aren't entirely accurate. You can say that "Oh, this character is the focus in this episode so that gives them this many episodes..." and so forth...that doesn't make it true. -[[User:Sketch|Sketch]] 01:48, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
::::::Since others seem to not agree amongst themselves, that also means that even THEIR views on what's "Focus" isn't entirely accurate either. And anyways, if that's the case, then Ash never really had much focus in the Leagues, even though those league episodes were listed as episodes focused on him. It's no different. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 01:51, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
:::::::Misty wasn't the one who orginized the plan in Tanks A lot. From what I remember, it was mostly Team Rocket's idea. You give Misty WAY TOO MUCH credit for things. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 02:02, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
::::::::Like how you gave too much credit to Ash or Dawn? you don't seem to be getting this, even without Tanks a Lot, she still had more ACTUAL character-centric episodes than Ash anyhow, and had more character-centric episodes than Dawn, anyways, even by range. And hey, what about the part about Entei at your own risk being a Brock centric episode just because his Foretress evolving, even though there were episodes where a main characters pokemon evolved even though said main character wasn't even the focus of the episode ("March of the Exeggutor Squad" says hi, since the episode was actually a Misty-centric episode by all definitions, and yet Ash's Charmeleon evolved, despite his barely even being out of the background.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 02:17, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Because Ash is the absolute main character of the show. And you only so far counted the original series episodes. What about Advanced and DP? You can't possibly believe Misty has more character focused episodes than Ash. And as for Entie At Your Own Risk, it does automatically a character focused episode when one of their Pokémon evolves. There Pokémon accidentally wondering off doesn't. And you say that its Misty focused because Togepi got inside the tank but refuse to acknowledge Ash and Team Rocket for the very same reason.

Personally, I think your a bit Misty obsessed and are looking for any reason to label Misty the focus of an episode. Please come to the realization that Misty was not the main focus of the series and that Ash was, and still is. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 02:27, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

:No, he ISN'T the absolute main character. Also, I counted the original series episodes because I just wanted to focus on whose the more equal female. And anyways, since you said "Original Series", that's because it's three different series in Japan, meaning, trying to compare is ridiculous beyond belief. I mean, it's like trying to say Ash was more popular than May in the Original series, it's silly. As for the whole thing about evolution=character-focus episode, no it doesn't. In order for it to truly be a character-centric episode, the character in question must have actual focus for more than 50% of the entire episode. As Brock wasn't even focused on for most of the episode, evolution or not, it's not an actual "Brock-centric episode".

:Also, I'm not misty-obsessed (aside from wanting to want her to return and working to make sure i do that, of course.). Believe me, If I WAS truly what you had described me, I would have labeled EP001, and absolutely every single episode Misty was in for that matter [even that brief cameo she had in the Hoenn Conference), as being a Misty-centric episode just because she's in it. And anyways, even if she wasn't, Ash wasn't either. I mean, I could list a few episodes that didn't focus on ANY of the main characters at all, like the majority of the Johto saga (The Xatu episode didn't focus on Ash, the Sunflora Vileplume episode didn't focus on Ash, the the Red Gyarados arc didn't focus on Ash [if it focused on anyone, it was Lance], etc. etc.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 03:02, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

::Yes, he is. Misty and the others are main characters but the anime basically revolves around Ash. ESPECIALLY in the original series in which you keep insisting Misty is the center of the series. What did Misty do? Was it Misty who competed in the Gym Battles? Was it Misty who competed in the Pokémon League? Was it Misty who was deciding where they were heading next? She was basically a character like Brock, Tracey, and Max are. One of Ash's friends who follows him and really doesn't do anything that greatly impacts the direction of the series. This does not mean that they are not important but they are basically behind Ash and are not his equal in anyway. The beginning of the Japanese openings never said "Satoshi, Kasumi, and Takeshi". They always said "Satoshi". It wasn't until the Diamond and Pearl that it was changed to "Satoshi and Hikari". It was the Advanced Generation were they decided to share the main point of the series with another character, May.

::You seem to be misunderstanding what I meant. I didn't mean every single episode is Ash focused. I'm saying that the anime in general is Ash focused.

::To Bulbapedia's standards, an episode in which a main character catches a Pokémon, evolves a Pokémon, or releases a Pokémon is an automatic focus on a particular character. Regardless of what you think.

::Yes, you are indeed Misty obsessed if you believe that she was more important of a character than Ash is. Even I don't say that about Tracey. If Misty was indeed the most important character of the series than why isn't she in it anymore? Why did the producers decide to keep Brock and not her?

::So are you trying to tell me that what ever happened after the original series doesn't matter? That it doesn't matter that Ash continued to be in more episodes after Misty's departure. Get a clue. Ash is the center of the anime followed by Dawn and May then the other characters, which includeds Misty. Of course Team Rocket is up their with May and Dawn as the opposing side to the heroes. You need to except that. Just because Misty has a lot of fans doesn't make her more important in the series than Ash is. You are being way too baised in your decisions. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 03:51, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

:::''Yes, he is. Misty and the others are main characters but the anime basically revolves around Ash. ESPECIALLY in the original series in which you keep insisting Misty is the center of the series. What did Misty do? Was it Misty who competed in the Gym Battles? Was it Misty who competed in the Pokémon League? Was it Misty who was deciding where they were heading next? She was basically a character like Brock, Tracey, and Max are. One of Ash's friends who follows him and really doesn't do anything that greatly impacts the direction of the series. This does not mean that they are not important but they are basically behind Ash and are not his equal in anyway. The beginning of the Japanese openings never said "Satoshi, Kasumi, and Takeshi". They always said "Satoshi". It wasn't until the Diamond and Pearl that it was changed to "Satoshi and Hikari". It was the Advanced Generation were they decided to share the main point of the series with another character, May. ''

:::Actually, she did greatly impact the series, as if it wasn't for her, Ash would have DIED. Since you guys are saying that he IS the Anime, then, if it wasn't for her, the anime would have ended right then and there. Besides, the only time relating to battles where the focus was undeniably on Ash was in the Leagues (The Gyms are debatable, as the Gym episodes seemed to focus more on the characters appearing than on Ash himself, or in the case of the Rudy Gym Episode, focused almost exclusively on Misty.). Besides, the point of the poll was how much screentime she really got compared to the Girls, and to be honest, I wasn't even anticipating the results to be as high as it was.

:::''You seem to be misunderstanding what I meant. I didn't mean every single episode is Ash focused. I'm saying that the anime in general is Ash focused.''

:::You said he was the "Absolute" main character, which, according to Webster, means everything. which, taking that definition into account, would imply that Absolutely every millisecond of every episode would be focused on Ash, which it really wasn't.

:::''To Bulbapedia's standards, an episode in which a main character catches a Pokémon, evolves a Pokémon, or releases a Pokémon is an automatic focus on a particular character. Regardless of what you think.''

:::Regardless if the episode focused 90% more on a Main Character other than Ash and Ash himself got only 10% when the capture/evolution/release episode was made (Like in the Charmander episode, even though Ash caught Charmander, it was more focused on Brock, as he was the one who reacted first to Damian's neglect, he's the one who cared for Charmander the most, he was the one who got extremely worried about Charmander when it left upon recovery to try and reunite with Damian. All Ash did throughout the episode was capture it [and, according to Brock, checked it's tail.].). That's crazy! I mean, Misty caught Psyduck, and I'll be the first to admit that the episode of it's capture barely even focused on her. If it even focused on anyone, it was Officer Jenny and Nurse Joy, which was a major reason as to why I didn't even include it.

:::''Yes, you are indeed Misty obsessed if you believe that she was more important of a character than Ash is. Even I don't say that about Tracey. If Misty was indeed the most important character of the series than why isn't she in it anymore? Why did the producers decide to keep Brock and not her?

:::Actually, I wasn't even thinking Misty was more important than Ash when I did this test. I just was doing it to measure the amount of character centric episodes Misty got in comparison to Ash (As well as the females in comparison to Ash as a whole.). heck, to be honest, I didn't even anticipate that Misty would get more episodes than Ash (The least I could predict was probably Misty: 45% Ash: 65%, if not 50/50.). The only reason why I had gotten the results to be 40:46 for Ash and Misty was because I didn't realize that someone had already listed the Johto Conference episodes as being Ash centric. Besides, if I was truly that which you described me as, I would have posted every single episodes that Misty ever appeared in as being a "Misty Centric" episode just because she appeared (Which I didn't and I actually gave reasons for why the episodes were focused on Misty or Ash.).

:::''So are you trying to tell me that what ever happened after the original series doesn't matter? That it doesn't matter that Ash continued to be in more episodes after Misty's departure. Get a clue. Ash is the center of the anime followed by Dawn and May then the other characters, which includeds Misty. Of course Team Rocket is up their with May and Dawn as the opposing side to the heroes. You need to except that. Just because Misty has a lot of fans doesn't make her more important in the series than Ash is. You are being way too baised in your decisions.''

:::No I wasn't. And anyways, if Ash was truly the center of the show as you claim, please explain to me why the writers actually considered replacing Ash twice. You know exactly what I mean, the special Raikou: The Legend of Thunder was released midway through Johto, where Ash wasn't even in that special, period, much less the Main Character, and some fans even stated that the special was a prototype for a series that wouldn't have involved Ash at all. Later, they revealed a Poster advertizing for a DP anime that had Dawn, Dawn, and Dawn alone on it, absolutely no sign of Ash on it, period. Some of the fanbase thought they were actually replacing Ash for the series because of that (and Dogasu even admitted that the reasoning behind the belief was legitimate). Now granted, they decided to keep Ash on, but the mere fact that they even thought of that special and making that Poster in that way implies that the writers felt that even Ash was expendable, which implies that, even back in the original series, Ash wasn't the star of the show (The writers wouldn't even THINK of doing the Raikou special if they felt that Ash was truly the star of the show.). So who's being more biased now? [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 14:28, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

You know Weedle, Ash IS the main character of the show. That doesn't mean he has to get the focus in ''every'' episode. It's on his goals that the anime revolves around not on any other characters. Its been like that since the beginning of the series. Ash always seems to be there when everyone else isn't. And the part about Misty saving Ash, do you really think a main character would '''die'''? That's never going to happen. Sure they may be life-threatening moments but they would never ''die''.

Naruto is a perfect example of being the main character but not given the focus in every episode. Its just like that with Ash. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 15:38, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
:I really don't think your experiment should have been done in the mainspace--[[User:RexRacer|'''Rex]][[Quilava (Pokémon)|Racer''']] [[User talk:RexRacer|'''''-talk''''']] 15:53, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

:Technically, he did die, twice. In the episode "The Tower of Terror", Haunter took Ash and Pikachu's souls out of their bodies after they caused the Chandelier to fall on them. The second time was in the first movie, where, after Ash got in the way of Mewtwo and Mew's attack, he turned to stone, couldn't awaken, and the only reason he was even alive now was because of the tears and he was, both clinically and truly, up to the point of the tears, dead. So, yes, they did "Kill" Ash.

:Anyways, not focusing on him is one thing, as there were plenty of episodes in the original series (a bit too much if you really think about it, even WITHOUT Misty), that didn't actually focus on him. No, my point was they not only were he was '''not''' focused upon in the ''[[The Legend of Thunder]]'' special, but he didn't even appear in it, period. A similar thing happened when they revealed that they had plans of making a DP Anime. They unveiled a poster of it, and the way they unveiled Dawn for the first time ever made it seem as though she was not only replacing Ash, but that Ash was NOT going to be appearing in the anime. That's my point. I mean, think about it, Even IF the writers didn't give Ash the focus in every single episode, if they felt that Ash was the Be-all-end-all of the show, why would they do [[The Legend of Thunder|a special]] that didn't even have a cameo from Ash, or a Promotional Poster for DP that focused on Dawn alone, and made it seem as though Ash was going to leave the Anime, and Dawn would take up the mantle of the star of the show. I mean, in the DP poster's case, it was one of the biggest discussions at the time. Those, to me, implied that the writers viewed even Ash as expendable.

:As for that comment for RexRacer, care to suggest where else I could put this experiment then? [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 16:02, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
::Sure at the time of the poster, people may have thought Ash was going to be replaced but the writers never specifically stated it. They may have been referencing the fact that a new girl is going to play a important role in the anime not as in being the only one. And Ash could not be in the Raikou special since he was at Hoenn at the time and the special happened in Johto. And you can't say from one incident that Ash is expendable. Again, I state the example of Naruto. There have been episodes in which he hasn't appeared at all.

Sure Ash may have kinda "died" but he always came back almost immediately instead of staying dead. Which means a ''lot''. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 16:14, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

:No, The Raikou Special actually took place (And AIRED in Japan, don't bring Chronicles into it) between Hatching a Plan, and Dues and Don'ts. And it wasn't a chronicles episode (Heck, Pokemon Hoso hadn't even been aired yet.). They even referenced several parts involving the special in the Johto League when Ash fought Jackson/Vincent.). As for referencing a new girl, They had a poster showing a new character named May and they had Ash with her as well when it was first unveiled, so that cannot be it.

:As for Naruto, were these main episodes, or were these episodes from a spinoff series similar to Hoso/Chronicles? [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 16:31, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
::Okay whatever. That doesn't mean that one special is enough to disprove Ash's status. The characters of the special hasn't been given a major appearance ever since then except Vincent but he appeared for one episode anyway. And for the poster thing, Dawn is kinda more important than May was. In all the DP movies, she is given equal importance with Ash unlike May who was only given importance in '''1''' movie.

::And the Naruto episodes were the main ones. I don't know if there were spinoffs but it doesn't matter. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 16:43, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

:::I think that a member of BMGf by the name of Rhyperior pointed out that it was Ash who saved Alamos/The world in Movie 10, and that Dawn ultimately took the back seat, anyways (The only remotely important thing that she did within the movie was save Ash) as it was Ash who told Pikachu and Pachirisu to reactivate the device, according to him, thus saving the world/Alamos, and he also scolded Palkia. Also, in the Shaymin Movie, other than the fact that she and brock tried to stop the Glacier (which even then, they weren't even the ones who actually stopped it, it was Regigigas), she didn't really do much. I mean, did she pair up with Ash and the two of them together, along with Shaymin, Muten, and Giratina, utterly defeat Zero? No, Ash was the one who ended up stopping him once and for all. So, in actuality, she actually had the same role May did, meaning she never was important to begin with. And, arguably, May wasn't given any importance in any movies, considering the fact that the climax of the 9th movie had her act like a total coward and didn't even attempt to save Manaphy (Instead, it was Ash who ended up saving the day, as usual.). So, in any case, I still say that Ash was expendable, as the character didn't appear, and the special, according to many, was a test to see what Audiences would feel, which implies that they had plans to replace Ash. Plus, the Poster, not to mention. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 16:58, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
::::Ash and Dawn were both on the tower activating the music device not Ash alone. It wasn't just Ash's Pikachu but Dawn's Pachirisu that also helped in it. In the Giratina movie, both Ash ''and'' Dawn went to the Reverse World not just Ash alone. She interacted with Shaymin almost as much as Ash. And how could you say May wasn't given any importance in the 9th movie? Its not about how she acted. A main plot point in the movie was May interacting with Manaphy and treating it like its mother. Whatever she did in the movie near the end doesn't matter since their relationship was shown for a major portion of the movie.

::::And like I said before, the writers haven't made any move to remove Ash from the story. The special is a seperate entity with its characters almost never appearing again in the anime. They may have looked to have tried a few attempts to remove him but the fact that they keep bringing Ash back show that he IS important. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 17:46, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
:::::Sigh, look, if you want to mention this to anyone, tell it to Rhyperior, assuming you are also a member of BMGf, all I did was just quote him. As for the part about the Reverse World, I know they both were in the Reverse world in the first visit, but during the second visit, it was Ash, and Ash alone who defeated Zero once and for all (Dawn was stuck trying to stop the glacier that, in the end, only Regigigas was able to stop, remember?). I mean, the summary of that movie even stated this.

:::::As for your point as to how she raised and interacted with Manaphy in the movie, if the same deal with Misty interacting with Togepi wasn't even considered even remotely important despite some episodes focusing on Togepi, then, Titular pokemon or not, her interacting with Manaphy isn't important either.

:::::As for thinking he's important, so what, Brock stays on the show for barely as long as Ash has, and he's not even as important as him, so Episode lengths aren't a detemining factor. And anyways, in order for someone to be a central character, not only do they NOT replace the character, they also are unable to even think about replacing it (Which, at least twice, they did think of replacing him.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 17:58, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Ash hasn't been replaced in the main anime. That's what matters not some random special. The anime is more important than the Chronicles or the raikou special. Its even more imortant than the movies. I know Brock has been there for a good portion of the series but he doesn't do that much anyway. This is Ash's story not anyone else's since he is in every episode.

Misty has interacted with Togepi to what extent in the movies? She practically just holds it for a major portion of the movies. May did a ''lot'' with Manaphy. It also helps that Manaphy is the titular Pokémon for the movie.

:Let's see, she fed it, she discovered some of it's metronome abilities, had it fight against Pikachu at one point, heck, her Togepi was also integral to defeating Colonel Hanson and reclaiming the Togepi Paradise. Besides, if we want to get technical, what did May ''actually'' do with it. She also, for the most part, held it, and heck, when it got kidnapped, what did she do? just stand there!

:They may not have done it, but they have certainly thought about it. I mean sure, they didn't replace him, but the point was they thought about replacing him. And anyways, considering how they referred to that special in the main series, anyways, it's a main series episode in and of itself. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 18:21, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
::I am talking about the movies. Misty hasn't done anything with Togepi in a movie. Sure Togepi has had its share of screentime in the anime but only in a few episodes. Out of the entire Johto season, Togepi might have had only less than 10 episodes that truly concentrate on it. It did ''nothing'' for the rest.

::And as long as Ash isn't replaced and keep appearing in every episode, he is the main character. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 18:28, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
Just so you guys know, the fact that this conversation is taking place is hilarious. I don’t even see why we have these categories that are almost solely based on opinion; it’s not as if we don’t have enough categories already (over two ''thousand''). [[User:IIMarckus|IIMarckus]] 19:08, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
:Well, in the Movies case, I can name one thing it did. It was implied that Togepi was the one who freed Zapdos and Moltres, as we saw it doing that "metronome" arm wave thing when Tracey told everyone to get down in regards to the whole Fire, Water, and Electricity combinations = an explosion. (In case you don't recall that scene, it's because 4Kids cut the scene out when they localized the film.). Besides, what did May do with Manaphy, anyways? I mean, she didn't battle with it (which is what the fanbase thinks of when they say "doing anything" in regards to a character.). And even IF Ash is the main character, the template already listed Brock, Misty, May, Dawn, and even the likes of Tracey, Max, and Todd as main characters, so either way, he's not THE main character (He's only A main character.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 20:55, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
::Again I state, as long as Ash keeps appearing in every episode in the main anime, he is the main character. Once he gets replaced, at least for a few episodes, then I will agree with you. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 08:17, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

== The reason ==

The reason why Brock, Tracey, and Misty had information about them getting replaced is because a staff member from the show actually explained the situation. The Dawn replacing Ash thing is all fan speculation and no one from the show EVER said that they were considering replacing Ash. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 21:52, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
:So What?! The GSDS article was still fan speculation in and of itself, and yet you freely chose to keep it on despite that. Heck, the whole Misty issue was actually placed into Misty's article BEFORE Masamitsu Hidaka's revalation. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 21:58, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

== Edit War ==

Thank goodness you guys somehow resolved it...under normal circumstances, you both would be blocked, depending on the amount of edits against...keep that in mind next time... [[User:Ht14|''ht'']][[User talk:Ht14|''14'']] 14:02, 25 December 2008 (UTC)
:I was just trying to put that out due to the fact that the circumstances of whether capturing them was the cause of the events of the second movie or if it was just territorial disputes (since the film implied that both were the cause.), and besides which, none of the Other times a Legendary bird was captured did a weather anamoly occur, which I pointed out with the events of Jack Walker capturing that Zapdos and riding it, as well as the fact that, other than the lake being almost a biological hazard, it's near-death didn't impact the weather. Jmath had to insist that they controlled the weather just because Lawrence III set the chain of events in motion (Even though Zapdos explicitly told Pikachu that it was conquering Fire Island, which definitely implied that Territorial disputes were a main cause of the events.) {{Unsigned|Weedle Mchairybug}}
::It doesn't matter. We resolved it. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 14:13, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

== Pokémon ==

Pokémon is not spelled "pokemon", it's "Pokémon". [[User:Chocolate|Chocolate]] ([[User talk:Chocolate|Chat with Me]]) 23:58, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
:I'm not sure if you should changed Haunter, but if you were to do it, you msut remember to chang it on Ash's page to be consistence.--[[Bulbapedia:Project Custom Sprite|☆]][[User:Tavisource|Tavis]][[User talk:Tavisource|ource]] 00:09, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

== Your trivia ==

The fact that multiple admins have reverted your edits to High Touch should be an indication that it is not needed. Please stop adding the information, as it is not relevant to anything. --[[User:PAK Man|PAK Man]] [[User talk:PAK Man|Talk]] 22:14, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

== That trivia ==

Let's put it this way...Take a small 5-6 year old kid. Ask him/her to do some advanced mathematics. Do you really expect the kid to suddenly do it. He just won't understand what you're saying to him. Does that make him disobedient??? Same with Psyduck. I don't remember any time where Psyduck actually battled with any determination to win. Its just basically clueless and once it gets a headache, it just releases its power. Chimchar also doesn't fall in the disobedient category. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 14:54, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
:It's disobedient, no matter whether it's intentional or not. Besides, if you want to get technical, Chimchar, during the events of ''[[DP081|Chim-Charred]]'', was very similar to Psyduck, and yet is also listed in it's trivia section as being the second fire type belonging to Ash that disobeyed him (and fourth of Ash's Pokemon overall to disobey him), the first being Charizard. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 15:46, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
::It's not disobedient because of ignorance, it's disobedient because of stupidity. That's different. -[[User:Sketch|Sketch]] 15:49, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
:::Were you talking to me or to Jmath? BTW, were you for the part of relocating of that trivia to it's own bit? Because it was still disobediance, therefore, Dawn's only the second main character other than Ash to have a disobedient pokemon, regardless of whether it's clueless or deliberate. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 15:51, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
::::I know I'm just getting involved because of RC watching, but my two cents is--who cares? Will this "(Character) is the (n)th person shown to have a Pokémon, in this case (whoever), disobey" format continue for ALL disobedient Pokés? If so, that seems...kinda unnecessary. -- '''[[User:evkl|evkl]]''' [[User_talk:evkl|(need to talk?)]] 15:57, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
:::::Well, I guess you might as well remove most of those things in Dawn's Trivia section, since almost half of it just compares her to some characters. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 16:03, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Read my first post. Its NOT disobedient. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 20:46, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
:Look, Obedience means following orders. It doesn't matter if the character is rebellious or just plan clueless, if they don't follow orders, they're disobedient. it's that simple. It's a moot point anyways, since Kenji-girl, one of the high ranking members of the site, has already stated that, whether he was intending to be disobedient or not, it still counted as a disobedient pokemon, and therefore, Dawn's only the second main character aside from Ash to own a Disobedient pokemon. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 20:54, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
::Could you blame a child for being disobedient for not knowing advanced mathematics??? Then why don't people punish them or something? [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 22:58, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
:::When did Ash actually punish Charizard? when did Dawn actually punish her Mamoswine? I don't recall them actually punishing their pokemon. In fact, the only character whom I would say actually punishes pokemon would be Paul. And anyways, no matter how hard you argue, unless you have another mod on your side, it's already written that Misty already owned a disobedient pokemon before Dawn ever appeared on the show (and considering how, like you, she also thought I obssess about Misty, that's saying quite a lot.) [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 23:04, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
::::Sure...Its real smart to punish powerhouses like Mamoswine and Charizard. They are going to eat you alive! And you still haven't answered my question. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 23:08, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
:::::Mamoswine is a vegetarian, so it can't eat dawn even if it wanted to (It's based off of the Wooly Mammoth, a herbivore.). You do have a good point on Charizard, though, though then again, Paul was known to punish any of his most powerful pokemon (I mean, he probably was going to do something bad to his Torterra when found oud it was teaching Ash's Grotle how to improve itself.). Anyways, I thought that question about Charizard and Mamoswine WAS my answer. either way, please stop, as Kenji-Girl had already agreed with me about the entire thing about Misty being the first main character other than Ash to own a disobedient pokemon. If you have a problem with it, take it to her. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 23:19, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

I looked up "disobedience" and it means '''willful''' refusal to follow orders. Chimchar and Psyduck both don't fall in this category. That proves your point wrong. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 23:23, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
:even still, she still agreed with me, as, willful or not, it still didn't follow orders. Again, I suggest you take the complaint to Kenji Girl, as she was the one who agreed with my views and put the thing in. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 23:25, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
::So what? We have proof that Psyduck didn't "disobey". And Kenji-girl probably didn't know the exact meaning of the word. (I didn't until I looked it up) [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 23:31, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

== Look ==

No matter how you twist it, it's still speculation. I've protected the talk page for now so it doesn't suffer anymore clutter. Now find something useful to do besides arguing with everyone. No one agrees with you. It's speculation. You can't compare speculation to fandom and fansite articles. So knock it off already. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 02:25, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
:Even IF everyone agreed with me, it's still speculation. And besides, Wikis ALSO have a code where they DON'T allow Fanwank on them. Also, Pokeshipping is still speculation, which means it shouldn't even exist on Bulbapedia. Besides, how is that confirmation from Hidaka not speculation. Heck, if I made something up in regards to my company and what we were doing, REGARDLESS if I was a CEO or not, I'm still speculating. This only proves that you don't know what speculation is, or even if you did, you're too arrogant to actually see it. I mean, heck, even you yourself bring in speculation into articles, should you be removed due to that? [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 02:31, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

:P.S. Another thing, seeing how WPM has actually BEEN with him, AND has had actual experience with the interview, it's NOT speculation. I mean, in order for it to be speculation on WPM's part, he has to not have been there, and only have heard of it. Even IF it were actually speculation, by that logic, seeing how the writers make mistakes in their judgement most of the time, even someone who works for the Pokemon Company/Gamefaqs is speculating, seeing how even they themselves don't know what's truly in store. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 02:36, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

::Why do I even waste time talking to you?
:#Shipping has its own space. We warn that it contains speculation.
:#If Hidaka actually confirmed something by speaking, such as the reason why Tracey replaced Brock, than it's not speculation. If he has a weird reaction to a question and you assume its because he's not allowed to speak of Platinum, than it is speculation. I don't care how much experience WPM has with interviewing people. He's not psychic. His thoughts are not confirmation.
:#I know what speculation is. You apparently can't tell the difference between fanon and speculation.
:#What speculation do I bring? Please show me. Not counting Shipping of course. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 02:42, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

::What are you talking about? I wasn't saying that he wasn't allowed to speak of Platinum. I was saying he didn't know about platinum. If anyone was actually saying he was not allowed to talk about Platinum, it was J-J-M. Stop crediting/blaming things on me that I didn't even do!
::And I don't care if Hidaka WAS the original director or not, What he says still counts as speculation, because he doesn't have absolute knowledge of the franchise.
::As for things like... your speculations, other than the Shipping part, you've speculated on comparisons between sonic characters and pokemon characters. Personally, I don't see why Shipping shouldn't count. I mean, if it's speculation, it's speculation, and if the rules absolutely forebade speculation, then Shipping articles shouldn't exist, period, no matter what your stance on them is. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 02:55, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
:::LOL that's what you're talking about? Those comparisons are on my USERPAGE. Userpages are NOT part of the mainspace. Neither is Shipping. Masamitsu Hidaka IS on the mainspace. Now I get it. You clearly don't know the difference between userpages and mainpages. Hey if you want to mention your speculation on whether he knew of Platinum or not, put it on your userpage. That would be acceptable. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 03:03, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
:::@Weedle-SHIPPING HAS ITS OWN SPACE. HOW MANY TIMES DOES SHE HAVE TO TELL YOU THAT? ''IT'S NOT IN THE MAINSPACE. NEITHER ARE USERSPACES''. AND TAKE AN ENGLISH CLASS! WITH ALL THOSE GRAMMATICAL MISTAKES, NO WONDER EVERYONE HATES YOU! DAMMIT FIND SOMETHING MORE CONSTRUCTIVE TO DO THAN F***ING ARGUING WITH EVERYONE, YOU...
@KG-What userpage? He doesn't even have one. [[User:Alpha Totodile|'''Alpha''']] [[User talk:Alpha Totodile|'''Totodile''']]
::::Now now, everyone, let's respect the {{bp|code of conduct|COC}}. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 00:38, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

== éééééééééééé ==

Use the '''é'''. It's Pokémon, not Pokemon. It's right there on the character palette begging to be clicked. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 00:23, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
:Remember this. I see you don't still use the é. By not using it, you cause extra work to other people correcting your grammar. Also, "dub" and "original" are not proper nouns. '''UltimateSephiroth''' ([[User:UltimateSephiroth|about me]] · [[User talk:UltimateSephiroth|chat]] · [[Special:Contributions/UltimateSephiroth|edits]]) 21:42, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

== Your grammar ==

is absolutely horrendous. The amount of times people have had to point out your grammar mistakes--the spelling of Pokémon, the difference between it's and its, and random capitalization--is absolutely ridiculous. I speak on behalf of all of the community here at Bulbapedia: it's time for you to actually heed warnings and make improvements. If any of us don't see any honest improvement with your edits, it will become a punishable offense. You must learn the rules of grammar--because the lack of proper grammar makes this site seem like it is run by a bunch of ten-year olds. ''[[User:Maverick Nate|'''Maverick''']][[User talk:Maverick Nate|'''Nate''']]'' 15:04, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

== Reverting ==

If an edit of yours is reverted, it's a bad idea to go back and undo it. If you really feel that strongly about your edits, discuss it on the talk page. Don't get into an edit war. --[[User:PAK Man|PAK Man]] [[User talk:PAK Man|Talk]] 16:24, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
:I discussed it on DP049 with other users. In fact, it happened long before the League was even planned out. But just in case, I made a response on [[Talk:DP049]], where we did have this discussion. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 16:32, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

== Norman ==

Can you tell me where Norman actually says he is supposed to be the third Gym Leader faced? In the games and in the anime, he winds up fifth in each case, and IIRC his only reference to three (see my edit to [[Badge]]) is in AG003 saying three Pokémon are needed. If he does say he's supposed to be third, I'd like to know where because I've never seen that. If my understanding is correct, Hoenn is therefore handled by Ash and his friends like all regions before it (Norman came fifth because they were "near Petalburg" again, which doesn't make sense in the games; convenience, I guess, in the anime), and Norman's Gym requirements are the only thing that stopped him challenging there first. [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 15:52, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
:That might have been a mistake (claiming he was actually supposed to be the third gym leader, I mean). But Norman DOES state in the ending of the episode that Ash was supposed to actually challenge him later on, and then points to Rustboro as being the first gym Ash should face. That would imply that there was indeed supposed to be a specific order trainers were supposed to face the gyms, at least in Hoenn. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 15:58, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
::[https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=R3vMoSgzBIM#t=1166 Here's the episode.] I set it to start at the beginning of the final segment, but you can watch it in full if you'd like. Norman NEVER said he should be challenged later on. If you can show me where he says it, then that's fine, I just don't see what you say proven in the anime. [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 16:07, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
:::This is from the summary of the episode on this website: "Later back in front of Norman's Gym, Norman explains that he's actually a Gym Leader Ash is supposed to fight later on. The first Gym he should try is the one in Rustboro City" This is right near the end. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 16:07, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
::::I'll visit there, then. Here are Norman's lines from the ending:
::::*"Your brother does know a lot about Pokémon and just might be a big help to you."
::::*"Ash, would it be too much of a bother if Max traveled along with you and May?"
::::*"I have a little something to give the both of you: a badge case to hold your winning Gym badges." (A grammar error here, too.)
::::*"And son, this is for you."
::::*"With one of those, you'll always know exactly where you are."
::::*"I suggest that you first travel to the closest Gym from here, and that's located in Rustboro City."
::::*"You do your best!"
::::Nothing about being faced later, so I'll go edit that article too. Thanks for the tip. [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 16:16, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
Never mind, that's another Website. I think I've proven that the other Website is not reliable. Do you have a link? [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 16:17, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
:Never mind again, I've edited [[AG003]]. [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 16:20, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

== Blocked ==

Weedle, you have been blocked for a duration of seven days for your edit war on [[Mewtwo Returns]]. You are well aware that edit warring is not permitted on Bulbapedia, and that the proper course of dispute resolution is to use the article's talk page to discuss the changes in dispute. Take this time to re-familiarize yourself with Bulbapedia policy. Thank you, - [[User:Kogoro|'''Kogoro''']] '''-''' [[User talk:Kogoro|'''Talk to me''']] - 22:14, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

== Pocket Monsters: The Animation ==

Can you refer to it as ''[[Pocket Monsters: The Animation]]'' so that it shows up on the wanted pages and shows that it needs to be created? Also, do you personally have a copy of the book? --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 02:04, 20 September 2015 (UTC)
:Sure thing, I'll do that in my next edit. Also, I don't personally have a copy of the book, but I do know someone who does: http://cindysuke.tumblr.com/post/34817930237/the-facts-about-pokemon-world-lol [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 02:06, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

== The Preview Button ==
Instead of editing a page several times in a row, try using the preview button to make sure your edit looks the way you want it to. It's right next to the Save Page button. Please try it out, so as not to clog up the Recent Changes. Also, if you want to edit multiple sections of the page, make sure that you click "edit this page" at the top of the page rather than editing it by section. Thanks! --'''—★[[User:Reshii|レシイラム]]''''''[[User talk:Reshii|talk]]''' 11:16, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

== TV Ratings ==

Do you have a source for that? If you do, then state the source. Don't make other users guess and think that it's BS. If the source is Dogasu, then state that you got it from Dogasu. You have been here longer the I have to know that you should always source your information.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 04:35, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

== Serebii ==

Hi! I just want to make sure you know that we cannot take any information from Serebii as it appears you have done for [[Special:Diff/2462919|this Simisear information]]. If you see something on Serebii, make sure you can source it elsewhere first, and even then make doubly and ''triply'' sure that whatever you end up writing here still does not end up copying Serebii. Again, we ''cannot'' take things from Serebii. I hope you understand. =) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 23:21, 25 June 2016 (UTC)
:[[Special:Diff/2500010|This]]... Just to hammer this home: '''''NOTHING''''' is ever to be taken from Serebii, '''''period'''''.
:So, tell me... What is your source regarding XY137? Is it just Serebii? [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 15:05, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
::Serebii made it pretty clear that it came from Newtype Magazine. Here's what it had to say of the episode:
::"'''The Newtype magazine in Japan has revealed another new episode title, this time for the fourty-fourth episodes of Pokémon XY & Z.''' These episodes is set to air on October 6th, following another week break on September 29th. This episode features Clemont helping rebuild Lumiose City Gym after the Team Flare attack.
Episode 940: We Start at Zero! Clemont's Decision!!"
::If that doesn't qualify as a source besides Serebii, I don't know what does. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 15:20, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
:::I'm honestly just disappointed, Weedle. You have been here for a good amount of years and are still making the most simplest of mistakes. Serebii does not qualify for a source, regardless of what he says. He doesn't even post an image of the magazine scan, so no, it's not clear it came from a magazine scan. Saying something does not immediately make something true if you don't show the evidence.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 15:28, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
::::Given your comment [[Special:Diff/2499984|here]], I was also curious where you got "はじまりはゼロ！シトロンの決断！"? [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 15:31, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
:::::I got it here: http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/XY137 [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 16:53, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
::::::Pokemon Wikia isn't a credible source either, because they could add that title just like you could add it here. It isn't an official website. Once there's a picture for the title, it will be posted. [[User:Playerking95|Playerking95]] ([[User talk:Playerking95|talk]]) 16:58, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
:::::::In short, keep in mind that these things should always be ''verifiable''. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 17:02, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

I'd like to add, if your only source for English translations of new episode titles is Serebii, please don't try to use that (even changed a bit) to add the episodes here. That's still basically copying Serebii. Just leave it until someone else can make an independent translation. At worst, post the sources somewhere and let someone else create the episodes with independent translations. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 17:07, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

== PokeSpe reference ==

You are not right by saying that the implication of Silver being Giovanni's son in FR/LG and the subsequent confirmation of this fact in HG/SS is a PokeSpe reference in the games. It was the games that first mentioned the fact. PokeSpe decided to make Silver Giovanni's son only in FR/LG Chapter, which was after the release of FireRed and LeafGreen. So, it is the manga that referenced the game, not the other way 'round. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 16:14, 24 August 2016 (UTC)

== New episode pages ==

When creating a new episode page, please use the {{template|New episode}} template. Otherwise, you get copy/paste errors like with what you did for [[XY138]] and [[XY139]]. Thank you. --[[User:Carmenstar97|Carmen★]] ''[[User talk:Carmenstar97|(Talk |]] [[Special:Contributions/Carmenstar97|contribs)]]'' 13:33, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

== Linking moves ==

Whenever you're linking to a move article, it's important to use the <nowiki>{{m}}</nowiki> template, as shown, to avoid using redirects. For example, <nowiki>{{m|Dark Void}}</nowiki> is the correct usage, not <nowiki>[[Dark Void]]</nowiki>. Just so you know. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 00:16, 30 September 2018 (UTC)

== English Celebi ==

Are you playing a game set to the Japanese language or a system and game from the Japanese region? I have doubts about Celebi having English text for the Japanese region. '''[[User:Lady Ariel|Lady]] [[User talk:Lady Ariel|Ariel]]''' 02:00, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
:I'm playing an English game set to the English language and I downloaded the game from the Nintendo eShop channel on the English Nintendo 3DS. Nothing Japanese at all regarding the game (well, aside from it in general was originally made in Japan, I mean.). I also managed to [https://otnesse.tumblr.com/post/179272822979/proof-that-the-wondercard-description-is-in photograph] it as well. Sorry for it being low quality, but I'm not sure how to get it directly from the game a'la Serebii.net. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 10:01, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
:EDIT: Sorry, now I see what was going on. Shouldn't have done that, dang it. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 10:03, 21 October 2018 (UTC)

== Link templates ==

Hey! I'm going to have to encourage you to read the site's {{bp|list of link templates}} again. Using <nowiki>{{an|Rotom Pokédex}}</nowiki> or simply <nowiki>{{Rotom}}</nowiki> is highly encouraged, not <nowiki>[[Rotom Pokédex (anime)|Rotom]]</nowiki>. Thank you. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 20:24, 6 October 2019 (UTC)

== Using Serebii as a source ==

Once again, you are using Serebii as a source when you know full well that he is not a valid source. It doesn't matter if he's right, just do no use his site as your source. Period. Your source should be the official Japanese site, not someone repeating what the Japanese site is saying.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 13:49, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

== "Advantage" ==

While I acknowlege some of your Team Rocket vs. Caterpie argument, "advantage" doesn't mean that Ash was guaranteed to beat Misty; it simply means that he was objectively in a favorable situation prior to the battle being interrupted (and since this was acknowledged by both Trainers, it's not simply speculation). I decided to rewrite that particular part entirely anyway, but I just wanted to clarify that. In the future, please try to use the talk page instead of edit warring (although I admittedly shouldn't have made that last revert either, so I apologize for that).

Additionally, I never claimed that you were being biased: I actually think you removing the previous wording of "about to win the battle" was the right decision, hence why I decided to try slightly rewording it instead. However, if you're going to say things like "regardless of my views on Misty", "even IF I believed Ash was owed a genuine win", and "my own personal views on the match were irrelevant"... of course I'm going to begin to question if you're truly attempting to be impartial here (especially given your history of Misty-related edits over the past 15 years). [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 10:18, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

:Fine, I'll grant you that much regarding your points, and that your wording was better. Though to be fair, Caterpie was also in extremely low health at that time as well thanks to its earlier near-death against Pidgeotto and... well, you know the rest of that battle and how it turned out for everyone involved (and it was also fairly explicit that it was weak even before the fight against Pidgeotto, much less Team Rocket. After Ash's attempt at capturing Pidgeotto outright without weakening it first just resulted in it escaping easily, Misty reminded him that he needed to battle it first, and also specifically stated the only reason Caterpie got easily captured without a fight was because it was already weak beforehand). I might be fanatically loyal to Misty, I'll admit that much, but I still would have avoided using "advantage" even if I had the exact opposite emotional views of Misty (and in fact, back when I was still on Bulbagarden and the discussion popped up whether Ash or Misty would have won, I gave pretty firm arguments why it wasn't necessarily confirmed Ash was going to win, and made it very clear that my being a Misty fan had absolutely nothing to do with my rationale, and that if anything my rationale actually was tied far more to something that happened with Ash than it ever did with Misty and then cited that particular battle. Granted, PDL pretty much mocked my argument when I cited that battle, but still...). Yes, it's true that Starmie was explicitly low on health, but it's also true that it was still close enough to the water's edge that it merely needed to hop back in and regenerate, though it might need a bit more effort to pull it off. And I mostly had to mention that stuff repeatedly in case someone DID try to accuse me of being biased towards Misty due to past experiences on Serebii, Pokecommunity, and BMGf where they did repeatedly do that. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 02:50, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
::A bit late on this one to reply (eh, still less than 6 months), but your talk page comment for Misty's Starmie (which I replied to, but I figured it would be appropriate to go into a bit more detail here) got me to rewatch EP007 in both Japanese and English, and I believe you misremembered Staryu's situation. What Staryu was actually doing when it dived into the water was negating the usage of Stun Spore and Sleep Powder (kind of similar to Natural Cure, but with water rather than switching out), not healing itself, so the argument that Starmie could still regenerate itself in the water doesn't really hold up. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 22:46, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
:::I didn't actually mention Staryu at all in that argument (my main focus was Starmie, and if anything I didn't even CONSIDER Staryu's earlier dive into the water to alleviate itself of Stun Spore.), and for the record, Starmie's core wasn't even damaged (ie, it didn't crack. The blinking light simply meant it was low on health), which is the only way it won't be able to heal at all barring maybe a Pokemon Center. And even if we were to somehow use that rationale for how it doesn't hold up, Bye Bye Butterfree made it very explicit that Starmie (and presumably Staryu) most certainly can heal itself (and by that, I specifically mean heal its HP back upwards, not simply negating a status effect) when exposed to water, at least as long as its core was intact (there was a scene during Ash, Misty and Brock's confrontation with Team Rocket over the poached Butterfree where James used a sledgehammer on Starmie, landed a direct hit on it and sent it flying into a wall, causing it to slump down in a similar manner to its situation in Waterflowers of Cerulean City, then Misty grabbed a water cannon (presumably from within Team Rocket's hideout) and proceeded to spray a torrent on it, and then it came right back to full strength). And that's not even getting into how Starmie's Pokedex entries back then make it explicit that it can regenerate as long as its core remains intact. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 09:36, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
::::"''I didn't actually mention Staryu at all in that argument (my main focus was Starmie, and if anything I didn't even CONSIDER Staryu's earlier dive into the water to alleviate itself of Stun Spore.)''"
::::You may not have mentioned Staryu, but [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=EP007&diff=3592528&oldid=3592393 you stated here that Starmie could recover by jumping into the pool], which is what Staryu did earlier to negate Stun Spore/Sleep Powder, so I don't feel like it was unreasonable for me to assume that you used Staryu as a basis for that. If that's not the case, then I apologize.
::::"''For the record, Starmie's core wasn't even damaged (ie, it didn't crack. The blinking light simply meant it was low on health), which is the only way it won't be able to heal at all barring maybe a Pokemon Center.''"
::::I'm pretty sure my stance from the very beginning was simply that Starmie was in an objectively disadvantageous position. I never mentioned anything about its core cracking.
::::"''And even if we were to somehow use that rationale for how it doesn't hold up, Bye Bye Butterfree made it very explicit that Starmie (and presumably Staryu) most certainly can heal itself (and by that, I specifically mean heal its HP back upwards, not simply negating a status effect) when exposed to water, at least as long as its core was intact (there was a scene during Ash, Misty and Brock's confrontation with Team Rocket over the poached Butterfree where James used a sledgehammer on Starmie, landed a direct hit on it and sent it flying into a wall, causing it to slump down in a similar manner to its situation in Waterflowers of Cerulean City, then Misty grabbed a water cannon (presumably from within Team Rocket's hideout) and proceeded to spray a torrent on it, and then it came right back to full strength).''"
::::Bit of a sidenote, but it was Jessie that used the sledgehammer. As for the rest: I mentioned this on the talk page for Misty's Starmie as well, but I don't think using future episodes is the greatest counterargument. There are many instances of Pokémon displaying a certain trait for the sake of the progression of the episode, only for it to never be used again (which I'm pretty sure is also what happened here as well).
::::"''And that's not even getting into how Starmie's Pokedex entries back then make it explicit that it can regenerate as long as its core remains intact.''"
::::Those are Staryu's Pokédex entries you're thinking of, which is specifically for lost appendages rather than fully healing itself.
::::My main issue with your argument is that it's built too much on theoretical scenarios rather than what was actually presented within the episode itself. Sure, it's true that Starmie didn't "lose", but I never claimed that it did. I only stated that it was in an disadvantageous situation, which was acknowledged within the episode itself.
::::Also, you mentioned earlier that people have called you biased on Serebii, PokeCommunity, and the Bulbagarden forums. I only say this to try to offer some constructive criticism, but if there are three separate communities saying the same thing, I fear that there may be some truth within their words. If your initial talk page post on Misty's Starmie had been something like "Misty didn't really lose since the battle was interrupted, but I agree that it needs to be rewritten", I would completely understand. Instead, your post contained a fairly lengthy paragraph about the exact circumstances of the battle, theoretical ways in which the battle could have progressed, and a comparison to a separate episode. I feel like that's a bit much considering Temari44 only mentioned the Gym battle in a small part of their post. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 11:55, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
:::::"''You may not have mentioned Staryu, but [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=EP007&diff=3592528&oldid=3592393 you stated here that Starmie could recover by jumping into the pool], which is what Staryu did earlier to negate Stun Spore/Sleep Powder, so I don't feel like it was unreasonable for me to assume that you used Staryu as a basis for that. If that's not the case, then I apologize.''"
:::::I guess you could say Staryu might have been a factor, but even without Staryu, the episode Bye Bye Butterfree already made clear it can fully heal from being exposed to water. And that's not even getting into how Generation III later had Staryu and Starmie have an ability to outright heal from water type attacks (and it wouldn't be the first time they did abilities for Pokemon based on an earlier episode. See Rhydon and it having Lightning Rod as an ability in a direct reference to the infamous Aim for the Horn situation during Blaine's Gym Battle).
:::::"''I'm pretty sure my stance from the very beginning was simply that Starmie was in an objectively disadvantageous position. I never mentioned anything about its core cracking.''"
:::::It still would have been a definite factor in whether or not Starmie would have been in a disadvantageous situation or not (and I define "disadvantageous" as "absolutely no way to get out of trouble", not "small chance of getting out of trouble" but "literally 0% chance"). The only time where being exposed to water DIDN'T heal it was during the battle against Giselle when it was knocked into the pool (which, BTW, the person specifically referenced and I even agreed with him), and even there it was explicitly shown that Starmie's core had been smashed beforehand (which actually backs up its Pokedex entry if anything). If they wanted to actually indicate Misty was inevitably going to lose, they should have made sure to have Starmie's core explicitly crack from impact and then flash to imply that the core was damaged and thus cannot heal. And I realize full well they acknowledged it was that, but that unfortunately isn't enough since I've seen plenty of instances where they outright state an opponent is at a disadvantage with the person winning attempting to press the attack, only for the winning individual to end up defeated at the last second (like Tealc's fight against that fake Jaffah rebel leader for example, or to keep it contained to Pokemon like how Caterpie defeated Jessie and James, heck, how Ash turned the tide against Jessie during his Viridian Gym Match), or otherwise it being made clear afterwards that they weren't in any danger and just trying to increase drama [the latter bit I'm specifically thinking of how Gotenks in an attempt at staging a dramatic finish exaggerated how Super Buu is cleaning his clock, only for Piccolo to take it seriously and seal the Hyperbolic Time Chamber and it then being revealed after the fact that Gotenks was actually bluffing about losing meaning Piccolo blew up the entrance for nothing].). I would have said the same thing if it were Ash and Pidgeotto in their shoes (well, okay, maybe not quite to that level since unlike Starmie, Pidgeotto doesn't heal from absorbing water).
:::::"''Bit of a sidenote, but it was Jessie that used the sledgehammer. As for the rest: I mentioned this on the talk page for Misty's Starmie as well, but I don't think using future episodes is the greatest counterargument. There are many instances of Pokémon displaying a certain trait for the sake of the progression of the episode, only for it to never be used again (which I'm pretty sure is also what happened here as well).''"
:::::Fine, I stand corrected regarding who used the sledgehammer, but my point still stands. And for the record, what you used as a counterargument is a very bad argument in itself, since I can easily use that exact argument to just shut down the wiki altogether and delete all articles precisely BECAUSE they do progression and never bring it up again, thus can't qualify as facts, thus can't allow for an encyclopedia or even summaries (I'm an all or nothing kind of guy). Either way, the fact that Staryu and Starmie later on got Water Absorb would indicate they thought specifically of that scene when deciding on those abilities for them (similar to Rhydon having Lightning Rod), so more likely than not it has that ability. Heck, Misty's Starmie's article even specifically noted that it carried at the very least a similar ability to Water Absorb and cited that particular scene.
:::::"''Those are Staryu's Pokédex entries you're thinking of, which is specifically for lost appendages rather than fully healing itself.''"
:::::Being the evolved form of Staryu, I'm pretty sure Starmie probably retained that ability. Heck, its article even indicated it had regenerative abilities as well.
:::::"''My main issue with your argument is that it's built too much on theoretical scenarios rather than what was actually presented within the episode itself. Sure, it's true that Starmie didn't "lose", but I never claimed that it did. I only stated that it was in an disadvantageous situation, which was acknowledged within the episode itself.''"
:::::As I stated above, the problem is that there have been plenty of instances where they stated they were in a disadvantageous situation in an episode or even a game (both inside the Pokemon anime and even in other franchises), yet the person at a disadvantage outright prevailed against the superior opponent, so that unfortunately isn't even enough to acknowledge that bit (as when I think of disadvantageous situations, I specifically have in mind instances where there's no way to get out of trouble, and by "no way" I mean literally 0% chance of survivability, let alone prevailing.). That's why I still think the situation was very ambiguous ESPECIALLY given Starmie's later being revealed to have a similar ability to Water Absorb during the events of Bye Bye Butterfree. Heck, if anything, Ash's Caterpie came far closer to actually BEING in an explicit disadvantageous situation when he fought Ekans, Koffing, and Meowth due to having the entire deck stacked against him (aside from the illegal at the time 2-on-1 match that Team Rocket forced Ash into, their Ekans and Koffing had significantly more experience than it, plus the fact that both were Poison-types, which gave them a type advantage over his bug-type status, and they had even managed to easily take out Ash's Pidgeotto, who at that time nearly made Caterpie its lunch thanks largely to Ash's stupidity earlier, and that's not even getting into how it was close to fainting by that point thanks to that earlier battle, and even without the Pidgeotto battle was weak enough that Ash didn't even need to battle it just to capture it. Note that I said "came far closer to", not actually WAS a disadvantageous situation, because ultimately Caterpie prevailed).
:::::"''Also, you mentioned earlier that people have called you biased on Serebii, PokeCommunity, and the Bulbagarden forums. I only say this to try to offer some constructive criticism, but if there are three separate communities saying the same thing, I fear that there may be some truth within their words. If your initial talk page post on Misty's Starmie had been something like "Misty didn't really lose since the battle was interrupted, but I agree that it needs to be rewritten", I would completely understand. Instead, your post contained a fairly lengthy paragraph about the exact circumstances of the battle, theoretical ways in which the battle could have progressed, and a comparison to a separate episode. I feel like that's a bit much considering Temari44 only mentioned the Gym battle in a small part of their post.''"
:::::Hey, I tend to get very detailed in my replies. It's basically a quirk of mine due to both my aspergers and also my parents specifically demanding I get more detailed in my answers rather than saying "just because", "I felt like it", or even going extremely general about who "they" are when I say "people". As far as that big about Bulbapedia, Pokecommunity, and Serebii.net, usually it's just the same people who happen to be members of all three sites, and either way, just because three entities claim something doesn't necessarily make it true. Just ask the coverage about the Vietnam War by the major networks. All showed the worst aspects about Vietnam, yet it eventually came to light that all of them, especially the so-called "most trusted man in America" Walter Cronkite, were extremely biased against the war and in Cronkite's case may have even up and out lied through his teeth during the Tet offensive. A similar story can be shown with the Trayvon Martin case. And I only replied in that sense because he specifically said that Misty lost that battle (and I wasn't even disagreeing with his overall argument that Misty's Starmie was weak. If anything, I fully agreed with his argument, including its loss against Giselle's Graveler, and only had a minor quibble with Misty's Starmie being stated to have lost the Cerulean Gym battle, and that's only because there was literally nothing to suggest it lost before Team Rocket interfered.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 21:36, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
::::::"''I guess you could say Staryu might have been a factor, but even without Staryu, the episode Bye Bye Butterfree already made clear it can fully heal from being exposed to water. And that's not even getting into how Generation III later had Staryu and Starmie have an ability to outright heal from water type attacks (and it wouldn't be the first time they did abilities for Pokemon based on an earlier episode. See Rhydon and it having Lightning Rod as an ability in a direct reference to the infamous Aim for the Horn situation during Blaine's Gym Battle).''"
::::::Neither Staryu nor Starmie have Water Absorb as a possible Ability.
::::::"''It still would have been a definite factor in whether or not Starmie would have been in a disadvantageous situation or not (and I define "disadvantageous" as "absolutely no way to get out of trouble", not "small chance of getting out of trouble" but "literally 0% chance").''"
::::::The definition of disadvantage is "an unfavorable circumstance or condition that reduces the chances of success or effectiveness"; it does ''not'' mean "0% chance of prevailing". Misty's Starmie was explicitly stated to be low on energy (but not actually knocked out), which means it was at a disadvantage.
::::::"''The only time where being exposed to water DIDN'T heal it was during the battle against Giselle when it was knocked into the pool (which, BTW, the person specifically referenced and I even agreed with him), and even there it was explicitly shown that Starmie's core had been smashed beforehand (which actually backs up its Pokedex entry if anything).''"
::::::I'm fairly sure that this "water healing" attribute was only ever displayed once in EP021. I don't think it makes a lot of sense to say "the only time where being exposed to water DIDN'T heal it" when it only happened ''once''.
::::::"''If they wanted to actually indicate Misty was inevitably going to lose, they should have made sure to have Starmie's core explicitly crack from impact and then flash to imply that the core was damaged and thus cannot heal. And I realize full well they acknowledged it was that, but that unfortunately isn't enough since I've seen plenty of instances where they outright state an opponent is at a disadvantage with the person winning attempting to press the attack, only for the winning individual to end up defeated at the last second (like Tealc's fight against that fake Jaffah rebel leader for example, or to keep it contained to Pokemon like how Caterpie defeated Jessie and James, heck, how Ash turned the tide against Jessie during his Viridian Gym Match), or otherwise it being made clear afterwards that they weren't in any danger and just trying to increase drama [the latter bit I'm specifically thinking of how Gotenks in an attempt at staging a dramatic finish exaggerated how Super Buu is cleaning his clock, only for Piccolo to take it seriously and seal the Hyperbolic Time Chamber and it then being revealed after the fact that Gotenks was actually bluffing about losing meaning Piccolo blew up the entrance for nothing].). I would have said the same thing if it were Ash and Pidgeotto in their shoes (well, okay, maybe not quite to that level since unlike Starmie, Pidgeotto doesn't heal from absorbing water).''"
::::::Again, a disadvantage is not an unwinnable situation. I also don't think the Gotenks situation is comparable since it was made clear to the readers/viewers that he was faking it even before Piccolo destroyed the door (and truth be told, Gotenks ultimately ''did'' fail to beat Super Buu because he's an idiot and refused to actually take the fight seriously until much later). [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 22:59, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
::::::"''Fine, I stand corrected regarding who used the sledgehammer, but my point still stands. And for the record, what you used as a counterargument is a very bad argument in itself, since I can easily use that exact argument to just shut down the wiki altogether and delete all articles precisely BECAUSE they do progression and never bring it up again, thus can't qualify as facts, thus can't allow for an encyclopedia or even summaries (I'm an all or nothing kind of guy).''"
::::::I'm sorry, but I feel like this is a huge stretch. My argument is based on information specifically presented in the episode itself, while yours is theorizing on how Misty could still make a comeback based on information ''not'' presented in the episode. I don't see how Starmie displaying a one-time attribute of being rejuvenated from a water blast in a later episode should be used as an argument for the Gym battle; Misty never said anything like "If I can just get Starmie into the water, I still have a chance".
::::::"''Either way, the fact that Staryu and Starmie later on got Water Absorb would indicate they thought specifically of that scene when deciding on those abilities for them (similar to Rhydon having Lightning Rod), so more likely than not it has that ability. Heck, Misty's Starmie's article even specifically noted that it carried at the very least a similar ability to Water Absorb and cited that particular scene.''""
::::::Just to reiterate: '''Neither Staryu nor Starmie have Water Absorb as a possible Ability'''. Their regular abilities are Illuminate and Natural Cure, along with gaining Analytic as a Hidden Ability starting with Gen V.
::::::"''Being the evolved form of Staryu, I'm pretty sure Starmie probably retained that ability. Heck, its article even indicated it had regenerative abilities as well.''"
::::::Again, this is used in the context of lost body parts. It's certainly not something like an immediate healing factor.
::::::"''As I stated above, the problem is that there have been plenty of instances where they stated they were in a disadvantageous situation in an episode or even a game (both inside the Pokemon anime and even in other franchises), yet the person at a disadvantage outright prevailed against the superior opponent, so that unfortunately isn't even enough to acknowledge that bit (as when I think of disadvantageous situations, I specifically have in mind instances where there's no way to get out of trouble, and by "no way" I mean literally 0% chance of survivability, let alone prevailing.). That's why I still think the situation was very ambiguous ESPECIALLY given Starmie's later being revealed to have a similar ability to Water Absorb during the events of Bye Bye Butterfree. Heck, if anything, Ash's Caterpie came far closer to actually BEING in an explicit disadvantageous situation when he fought Ekans, Koffing, and Meowth due to having the entire deck stacked against him (aside from the illegal at the time 2-on-1 match that Team Rocket forced Ash into, their Ekans and Koffing had significantly more experience than it, plus the fact that both were Poison-types, which gave them a type advantage over his bug-type status, and they had even managed to easily take out Ash's Pidgeotto, who at that time nearly made Caterpie its lunch thanks largely to Ash's stupidity earlier, and that's not even getting into how it was close to fainting by that point thanks to that earlier battle, and even without the Pidgeotto battle was weak enough that Ash didn't even need to battle it just to capture it. Note that I said "came far closer to", not actually WAS a disadvantageous situation, because ultimately Caterpie prevailed).''"
::::::Again, a disadvantage is not an unwinnable situation, just a situation that is harder to win from. There's nothing wrong with saying that Starmie was at a disadvantage, since that's what was displayed and stated within the episode itself.
::::::"''Hey, I tend to get very detailed in my replies. It's basically a quirk of mine due to both my aspergers and also my parents specifically demanding I get more detailed in my answers rather than saying "just because", "I felt like it", or even going extremely general about who "they" are when I say "people". As far as that big about Bulbapedia, Pokecommunity, and Serebii.net, usually it's just the same people who happen to be members of all three sites, and either way, just because three entities claim something doesn't necessarily make it true. '''Just ask the coverage about the Vietnam War by the major networks. All showed the worst aspects about Vietnam, yet it eventually came to light that all of them, especially the so-called "most trusted man in America" Walter Cronkite, were extremely biased against the war and in Cronkite's case may have even up and out lied through his teeth during the Tet offensive. A similar story can be shown with the Trayvon Martin case.'''''"
::::::This is an ''extreme'' comparison. One person's conduct on the Internet in regards to a fictional character from an anime is not at all equivalent to '''war or murder'''. At the very least, it's undeniable that a lot of conflict that you've run into on these sites are related to Misty (honestly, I can just look at earlier posts on this very talk page even before this particular discussion started). It's one thing to claim that you're not being biased and another to actually showcase that you're not being biased. You even admitted earlier that you're "fanatically loyal to Misty". [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 22:59, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
:::::::If I were to be biased regarding Misty, I'd have rewritten every loss she had to be eradicated and thus indicated she never lost (either that, or if I genuinely hated Misty, rewrite everything to outright EXAGGERATE her loss ratio to imply she has a similarly bad track record to Team Rocket). Not only did I not do that, I actually agreed with the guy who tried to defend Starmie's overall track record that the Giselle bit WAS indeed a loss (a story-required loss, yes, but a loss nonetheless, and if I agreed that the Giselle bit was a loss, that is indeed showcasing I'm NOT biased. Someone who truly IS biased towards Misty in terms of liking her would never agree to her having a single loss at all). No, I'm not being biased, even if I do have fanatical loyalty to Misty (someone who's truly biased would literally rewrite the entire wiki to either avoid listing any, and I do mean literally ANY flaws she might have, or exaggerate her flaws to such a degree that they come across as the absolute worst person to ever live). Heck, I have an absolute hatred of May and to a lesser extent Dawn, yet you don't see me editing their articles to paint them in the absolute worst light imaginable (which WOULD be the very definition of bias, BTW). If anything, I AM attempting to be VERY objective in my edits especially regarding Misty. Also, a huge amount of stuff on here literally only happened in single episodes, or so few episodes that they barely even matter, yet they're still noted as actually having happened as if they had any importance, so that's far from a rebuttal regarding whether or not Starmie could indeed heal from it (and once is more than enough to indicate it would happen). I might as well also point out that I focus on the connections between generalities and details, so I DON'T limit myself to whether it's demonstrated in a single episode or not. Otherwise, Ash's Ho-Oh connection is meaningless since they never bring it up since the beginning of DP, and his Aura abilities also only showed up a few times in DP. And I do agree ultimately Misty's Starmie was weakened, but we have no conclusive proof that it would have lost, period, hence why I tried to rewrite it the way I did earlier as that's the only actual way to write it. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 02:13, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
::::::::Everything that you're describing is simply bias taken to the logical extreme (i.e. to the point of being completely unreasonable), which is an exaggeration and doesn't actually disprove whether or not you're partial to Misty (which I think is fairly obvious at this point). Again, what's important in this instance is the info presented in the episode itself, which is less speculatory than thinking of ways that Misty "could" win or not. Again, I never said she actually lost. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 03:27, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

== Pokémon ==

When writing "Pokémon" or "Poké", don't forget to write the "e" as "é". Also, the word "Trainer" is capitalized. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 00:06, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

== Sensational Sisters ==

There's no indication in Japanese or English that Misty "quit" being a Gym Leader; she simply says that she left her sisters in charge of the Gym. Please don't just plainly revert me and discuss things on the talk page first. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 12:13, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
:I watched both Japanese with Subs and the English dub with Closed Captioning, and this is what she says when the topic is brought up:
:"When I saw you [Satoshi] battling, I just couldn’t sit still! So I left Hanada Gym to my sisters and set off on a journey."
:"After watching your [Ash's] battle, I just couldn't stay still a second longer! And so, I left the [Cerulean] Gym with my sisters in charge, and started a journey!"
:And while it's true that it doesn't use the exact word "quit" in there, it's pretty clear that's what's being implied especially when past episodes have made it clear that you can't engage in a Pokemon Journey while you're a Gym Leader (in fact, such a restraint was made explicit as early as [[EP005|Showdown at Pewter City]] from both Flint AND Brock, and I think Candace and Zoey both alluded to this restraint in that episode of Diamond and Pearl.). Besides, no one talks like that about a position they simply were on temporary leave from (I sure don't). That sounds more like the kind of talk a guy gives when he's about to quit his job for a better one. A good contrast would be her reappearance in Alola (second one) where she explicitly stated that a major part of why she went to Alola besides visiting Ash was to take a break from the swarms of Gym Challengers that were arriving. Either way, she definitely never mentioned the gym at all in JN147, much less resuming gym duties (the most we got was Brock eagerly telling Misty to say hi to her sisters for him before Croagunk toxic stabbed him), and considering most instances she either explicitly mentions she has to resume gym duties when she departs (Mirage Kingdom Arc, the Kanto, Alola arc) or otherwise its made very clear she had to resume Gym Duties (beginning of Battle Frontier where Daisy basically called Misty and threatened to hand badges out again if she didn't return, Mastermind as well since it's made explicit she was only there due to being invited alongside Oak and was most likely going to return to the Gym afterward), the fact that she makes absolutely NO mention of gym duties at all means she most likely wasn't going back to being a Gym Leader that time. Let's not forget, Brock also returned to Pewter City in the same episode, and he's repeatedly stated to no longer be a Gym Leader and thus obviously wasn't going to be resuming gym duties. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 12:29, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
::Most of what you've outlined is your own headcanon with no real proof that she quit being a Gym Leader, which you also just admitted to.
::''"I watched both Japanese with Subs and the English dub with Closed Captioning, and this is what she says when the topic is brought up:''
::''"When I saw you [Satoshi] battling, I just couldn’t sit still! So I left Hanada Gym to my sisters and set off on a journey."''
::''"After watching your [Ash's] battle, I just couldn't stay still a second longer! And so, I left the [Cerulean] Gym with my sisters in charge, and started a journey!"''
::Yes, I also watched both. Again, there's no mention of her quitting.
::"''And while it's true that it doesn't use the exact word "quit" in there, it's pretty clear that's what's being implied especially when past episodes have made it clear that you can't engage in a Pokemon Journey while you're a Gym Leader (in fact, such a restraint was made explicit as early as [[EP005|Showdown at Pewter City]] from both Flint AND Brock, and I think Candace and Zoey both alluded to this restraint in that episode of Diamond and Pearl.).''"
::I'm pretty sure that you just can't leave a Gym '''unattended''' without another Gym Leader looking after it. Brock was able to leave on a journey after leaving Pewter Gym in Flint's care (and Lt. Surge also left Vermilion Gym in Visquez's care while he went on his own journey). Both Flint and Brock were considered official Gym Leaders even as late as DPS02.
::"''Besides, no one talks like that about a position they simply were on temporary leave from (I sure don't). That sounds more like the kind of talk a guy gives when he's about to quit his job for a better one. A good contrast would be her reappearance in Alola (second one) where she explicitly stated that a major part of why she went to Alola besides visiting Ash was to take a break from the swarms of Gym Challengers that were arriving.''"
::Firstly, you can't claim that "no one talks like that about a position they simply were on temporary leave from" when plenty of people watched that episode without ever getting the impression that she "quit". Secondly, this is speculation.
::"''Either way, she definitely never mentioned the gym at all in JN147, much less resuming gym duties (the most we got was Brock eagerly telling Misty to say hi to her sisters for him before Croagunk toxic stabbed him), and considering most instances she either explicitly mentions she has to resume gym duties when she departs (Mirage Kingdom Arc, the Kanto, Alola arc) or otherwise its made very clear she had to resume Gym Duties (beginning of Battle Frontier where Daisy basically called Misty and threatened to hand badges out again if she didn't return, Mastermind as well since it's made explicit she was only there due to being invited alongside Oak and was most likely going to return to the Gym afterward), the fact that she makes absolutely NO mention of gym duties at all means she most likely wasn't going back to being a Gym Leader that time. Let's not forget, Brock also returned to Pewter City in the same episode, and he's repeatedly stated to no longer be a Gym Leader and thus obviously wasn't going to be resuming gym duties.''"
::Most of this is speculation (outside of her not mentioning resuming Gym Leader duties). However, my reworded edit didn't say that she resumed her duties, just that her sisters look after the Gym when she's away.
::I also maintain that you should not have reverted me twice before going to the talk page. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 13:16, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
:::Actually, Brock was repeatedly considered an ex-Gym Leader/Former Gym Leader by the Alola, Kanto arc (more specifically, the episode where Brock and Misty show them the ropes at Cerulean Gym regarding gym battles), which was well after the events of DPS02. I'd know, I watched it on PokemonTV when it came out with closed captioning. Even made particular note about that bit. Only Misty was specifically stated to be an actual current Gym Leader in that episode. And last I checked, Giovanni didn't explicitly make Jessie, James and Meowth Gym Leaders (they merely assumed they became Gym Leaders) and if anything his orders to them made it sound as though he specifically wanted them to guard against a possible attack on the Gym ("Use these [Pokemon] in the event of an emergency!"). And as far as Lt. Surge is concerned, quite frankly, ESPECIALLY after Brock was explicitly considered a former Gym Leader, ie, one who is no longer a gym leader at all, that means Lt. Surge isn't a gym leader by that point either (besides, Flint's not even a Gym Leader anymore, Forrest is, and most certainly was an official one by DPS02.). And the whole "unattended" issue is its own problem since, ignoring how Giovanni's apparently running Team Rocket without actually BEING at the gym prior to Battle of the Badge (afterwards, he most likely quit the position), we had Fantina being absent from the gym for a good long while, being absent TWICE, in fact, both times when Ash tried to challenge her, and didn't even get a slap on the wrist for it, much less had her gym priviledges revoked for it. And I still stand by my statement that there's no way Misty would say something like that if she wasn't quitting the position. And BTW, that stuff I described wasn't headcanon. That was evidence directly from the episode and related episodes. Want to know what ACTUAL headcanon is? Misty's parents being murdered by Team Rocket members and her nearly being killed by them as a baby, and then being adopted by the Sensational Sisters, stuff that had literally no basis whatsoever from the series and something I made up in its entirety (and yes, I actually DID write that as a fanfic). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 13:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
::::"''Actually, Brock was repeatedly considered an ex-Gym Leader/Former Gym Leader by the Alola, Kanto arc (more specifically, the episode where Brock and Misty show them the ropes at Cerulean Gym regarding gym battles), which was well after the events of DPS02. I'd know, I watched it on PokemonTV when it came out with closed captioning. Even made particular note about that bit. Only Misty was specifically stated to be an actual current Gym Leader in that episode.''"
::::None of this has any relevance to what I was talking about.
::::"''And last I checked, Giovanni didn't explicitly make Jessie, James and Meowth Gym Leaders (they merely assumed they became Gym Leaders) and if anything his orders to them made it sound as though he specifically wanted them to guard against a possible attack on the Gym ("Use these [Pokemon] in the event of an emergency!").''"
::::I never even brought up Viridian Gym since its circumstances are much different from other Gyms.
::::"''And as far as Lt. Surge is concerned, quite frankly, ESPECIALLY after Brock was explicitly considered a former Gym Leader, ie, one who is no longer a gym leader at all, that means Lt. Surge isn't a gym leader by that point either (besides, Flint's not even a Gym Leader anymore, Forrest is, and most certainly was an official one by DPS02.). And the whole "unattended" issue is its own problem since, ignoring how Giovanni's apparently running Team Rocket without actually BEING at the gym prior to Battle of the Badge (afterwards, he most likely quit the position), we had Fantina being absent from the gym for a good long while, being absent TWICE, in fact, both times when Ash tried to challenge her, and didn't even get a slap on the wrist for it, much less had her gym priviledges revoked for it.''"
::::First of all, Visquez is referred to outright as a substitute Gym Leader for Lt. Surge, meaning Lt. Surge is definitely still a Gym Leader. This leads to my second point...
::::You're quite mistaken on several things regarding the status of the Pewter Gym Leader, as well as the restrictions on Gym Leaders traveling. Brock left Pewter Gym to Flint in order to travel with Ash for a lengthy amount of time and was STILL considered an official Gym Leader by DPS02 as far as the Pokémon Inspection Agency was concerned. The Nurse Joy from said agency explicitly refused to battle Forrest at first, and would only accept a battle from Brock or Flint (meaning that Flint was ''also'' still considered an official Gym Leader). While Forrest had been conducting Gym battles prior to this, he was not the ''official'' Gym Leader since Flint never delivered the paperwork to officiate the change, and only obtained the title during the events of the episode itself.
::::Between Brock leaving Pewter Gym to Flint (again, both of them still had their titles by DPS02), Lt. Surge leaving Vermilion Gym to Visquez, and Clemont leaving Lumiose Gym to Clembot, there's no indication that Gym Leaders will lose their titles just because they decided to travel, provided that someone is running the Gym (and even then, Fantina was never penalized for being absent, as you've already mentioned). Even Misty already had the title of Gym Leader prior to the beginning of the series.
::::"''And I still stand by my statement that there's no way Misty would say something like that if she wasn't quitting the position.''"
::::Literally nothing about her dialogue indicates that she "quit". I have no idea why you're so convinced otherwise.
::::"''And BTW, that stuff I described wasn't headcanon. That was evidence directly from the episode and related episodes. Want to know what ACTUAL headcanon is? Misty's parents being murdered by Team Rocket members and her nearly being killed by them as a baby, and then being adopted by the Sensational Sisters, stuff that had literally no basis whatsoever from the series and something I made up in its entirety (and yes, I actually DID write that as a fanfic).''"
::::Your personal interpretation of events is still headcanon. I don't know what you're trying to prove here by talking about your fanfiction. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 16:29, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
:::::The first bit actually has quite a bit of relevance, since you stated Brock and Flint were both Gym Leaders, and I was pointing out that Brock WASN'T considered a Gym Leader by that episode (the Alola, Kanto Gym episode). They wouldn't repeatedly call him a "former" Gym Leader if he still was one, as former means he no longer is one in any capacity. And yes, they repeatedly stated "Former Gym Leader" in reference to Brock twice, I think three times tops in that episode. I counted it while watching it, and even took mental note of those bits when comparing Brock's battle with Misty's battle on Pokecommunity's forums. And bear in mind that episode was FAR more recent than DPS02.
:::::But, fine, we'll keep it to your rendition, but I'm doubtful they'd have Misty make that kind of emphasis regarding her resuming her journey if she was still an active gym leader (even with Lt. Surge, he had to specifically confer it onto Vasquez, and going by DPS02, such had to be done formally to the PIA's knowledge for it to stick considering what nearly happened with Forrest despite Brock specifically making him a Gym Leader after Family that Battles Together Stays Together. And BTW, a "substitute" would strictly be temporary, and a Pokemon Journey's considered a long-term engagement, so having Lt. Surge engage in a Journey while leaving a substitute doesn't make any sense at all.). Either way, I'm still rewording it a bit to note that she took over as the primary Gym Leader due to her status as Gym Leader being made apparent as early as EP007, both English Dub and Japanese version, which her sisters didn't even deny, which you yourself pointed out.
:::::And my point with the fanfic bit is defining precisely what "headcanon" is. And what I pointed out from the episodes is NOT "headcanon", as it's literally what's shown in the Episode, and what is said in there. If I were to go by my own personal interpretations on an episode, I'd even go as far as to state blatantly false stuff like saying Misty torched the gym when she left just because, hey, I imagined (and by definition interpreted) her doing that before she left, despite it never being shown or even alluded to (not to mention would blatantly be out of character for Misty as she's characterized in the anime). If I were to do that, THEN you can denounce me as engaging in "headcanon." Otherwise, don't. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 19:43, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

User talk:Weedle Mchairybug

2024-06-15T19:49:40Z

Weedle Mchairybug: /* Sensational Sisters */

Psst. Capitalize your sentences. Don't capitalize random words that aren't important. Follow the {{bp|manual of style}} and good ol' English grammar. And accent that é in Pokémon! '''[[User:TTEchidna|TTE]][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 23:23, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

As {{u|TTEchidna}} said, Capitalize your sentences! And where did you get the idea that Misty was the champion of the Togepi competition? IT WASN'T REAL! It was a trap set by Team Rocket so that they could steal her Togepi for [[Colonel Hansen]]. --[[Special:Contributions/Kenji-girl|☆]][[Tracey Sketchit|ケンジ]][[User:Kenji-girl|ガール]] 21:53, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

WOW!!! Though your new, you put up a very good, strong point in arguements! I congratulate you on that! You should start making edits on regular pages, not just talk pages. Good Job!!! --'''[[User:Theryguy512|Theryguy]][[User:Theryguy512/Contribution Page|5]][[User:Theryguy512/Mission Page|1]][[User:Theryguy512/Games|2]]''' 22:21, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

== Errors ==

I really don't think they are errors, Ash has a long journey that's still going, you can't expect him to remember every moment that happened to him. [[User:TheBlazikenMaster|TheBlazikenMaster]] 15:00, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, yeah, but May's was just beginning and the Rubello convention was just after the Fallabor contest, so that same logic can't be applied there. And anyways, it's not that they HAVE to remember everything, but that doesn't mean they should act as though they never heard of it. I mean, that's like forgetting the day of your birth. Besides, how can he forget about a pokemon he owned?![[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 15:16, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
:You do realize its just a tv show. So the writers forgot to have him remember something. Thats an error.[[User:Darth Cookie Monster|Emperor's Cookies]] 15:20, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
::Ok, it fit under error, but just memory error. I still think it's not error as in "senseless". Ok, I am keeping those in the articles as it might look interesting. But I still think the word "forget" is a better way to describe it than "acted like he never heard of...", since that's what's happening, if you act like something never happens the best way to describe it is with the word forget. I am not planning on removing from [[EP233]] or [[AG072]], don't worry. But I still think the word forget is a better way to word it than "acts like he's never heard of". Besides, Ash only had the Primeape for a few episodes, I'm not surprised he forgot about it. [[User:TheBlazikenMaster|TheBlazikenMaster]] 21:14, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

== Misty's Togetic ==

Ok, u win, just fix the grammar!--[[User:Kuki|Kuki]][[User talk:Kuki|Talk]] 12:17, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
:Done and done. Also, thanks. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 12:24, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

== Brock: Only character who looks Japanese ==

WRONG! It's him, Flint, and the Harrison Kids!--[[User:Kuki|Kuki]][[User talk:Kuki|Talk]] 15:09, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Sigh, let me clarify, Brock is the only one of the MAIN characters who looked Japanese. Flint, his siblings, Harrison Kids, Ninetales owner, Suziko, and that Mime jr/Bonsly show director were either side characters or one-shots. If you edited it, I'll revert the edit and make sure I clarified what I was trying to convey
[[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 15:15, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

== Movie 11 ==
I am going to overlook the fact that you overrode an editorial member's contribution without even paying attention to whether or not it supported your point (for instance, you deleted the paragraph in which I stated that the movies marks Origine Forme and Sky Forme's debuts; how is that controversial?). It is childish conduct, but I am used to it by now.

You should have realized that the content I deleted was all ''conjecture''; I couldn't have very well stated erroneous or unfounded information when I only removed other members' conjecture, could I? It may be true that when the first movie was revealed we had good reason to believe that Palkia would tag along with Dialga, but even back then that was not clearly implied. Since then, Dialga and Regigigas have been shown to have some role in the movie on numerous occasions, whereas Palkia has all but been forgotten. As for the new Pokémon, early toy advertisements led some to believe that the unrevealed Pokémon would pertain to the next generation. Since then, Sky Forme has been unveiled and confirmed to be that very same unrevealed Pokémon, leaving no viable reason to suspect that that speculation could still have merit.

All of the above warranted the deletion of the conjecture from the page as soon as last month. But I have refrained from doing so because I knew that certain members' obstinacy could prove problematic. However, by now circumstances have changed due to the fact that the movie has premiered in an early showing in a limited number of Japanese theaters. We already have a synopsis that may not be full-fledged, but is good enough to remove doubt on the subject of Palkia and new Pokémon: They are nowhere to be seen. --[[User:Unown Lord|Unown Lord]] 09:13, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

== Try not to be so biased... ==

Even if Hidaka's statement did sound kinda sexist, well, shit, it's true. Have you ''seen'' the amount of 34 there is of Pokémon, and not just of the human characters? I'm sure you have. Face it, older fans are complete pervs, and it's not like giving Misty short shorts, May a huge rack, and Dawn a short skirt isn't just as sexist. Heck, you couldn't even PLAY as a girl until Crystal! It's not that they're being sexist; it's that they have the internet and know of all the stuff out there... and so therefore, like in ''[[DP039|Steamboat Willies]]'', fanservice, fanservice, fanservice.

Anyway, I reworded the statement, hoping to be more NPOV. Now I'm gonna go wash my keyboard off, because I don't wanna start becoming one of those acronym-throwing Wikipedos. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 23:22, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

:Actually, if I was being biased, I would have only inserted it into Misty's article, and not even have bothered to insert it in May and Dawns articles. Besides, technically, you can play as a girl before Kris, since Misty was playable in Pokemon Puzzle League. And since Love hina comes to mind, in my mindset, Fanservice = sexist. And anyways, May and Dawn were even MORE Fanservicey than Misty (I go by the definition that it's only fanservicey if the person clearly enjoys doing the scandalous thing, or at least implies the enjoyment [Like the majority of the characters in LH, for example.].). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 23:53, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

::I've said this already, but you do not control the definitions of words. Society does. Especially on a wiki, it's important to rely on objective definitions rather than subjective opinions. And even if we go by your definition, Misty clearly enjoyed showing off her body in the Porta Vista Beauty Contest, dressing in that Goldeen swimsuit, and in that mermaid costume, and I don't recall Dawn doing anything "scandalous" on purpose. --[[User:PsychoRobo|PsychoRobo]] 17:09, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

:::No, Misty DIDN'T enjoy the Porta Vista Beauty Contest. She said "It's so degrading, but I need the money" when having to do it, which meant that she didn't like showing off like a playboy model. Also, in regards to the Goldeen outfit, Misty ALSO didn't enjoy it either. She said something like "at least they aren't taking notice of me", which implied she didn't really like the situation she was in (much less having to wear that outfit.). The Mermaid Outfit, she didn't really like having to wear it (ESP. in "The Misty Mermaid"), especially considering that the only reason she did the part was because her sisters set her up (BTW, she refused several times, but eventually relented when she realized her sisters needed help in regards to it). Also, the only reason she agreed to wear the outfit in "Cerulean Blues" was to try and calm down Gyarados. that's FAR Different compared to something like... Oh, I don't know, May's clear enjoyment of stripping on the beach, or Kanako Urashima's complete gladness of stripping (and even doing it in front of her brother at one point.

:::As for what Dawn did that was scandalous, she dressed up as a French Maid (which was a common Japanese Fetish), among other things.[[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 18:46, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Main series games only--[[User:Kuki|Kuki]][[User talk:Kuki|Talk]] 23:53, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

::::Dude, who ''doesn't'' enjoy going to the beach? Besides, is May supposed to wear her regular clothes and GO SWIMMING? And don't forget, Ash wore those clothes too. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 00:56, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

:::::I was referring to the swimsuit contest, since THAT was what you referenced. Also, yes, it's a bit impractical for her to wear her regular clothes and go swimming at the same time, but that doesn't mean she should have stripped in a strip-tease fashion, with her brother practically begging for her to stop doing it, and both he and ash being embarrassed. It's not the question of whether they enjoy going to the beach or not, it's whether they enjoying causing a scandal or not. If you try to disrupt this one more time, I WILL end up being forced to post Love Hina Pics to try and prove what exactly I meant by Fanserviced girls enjoying doing scandalous things. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 01:18, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

::::::I've come to realize that that's what anime does. They're basically all the same. They make the girls into fanservice. Look at YuGiOh GX. The guys wear respectable uniforms while the girls trot around in mini skirts with huge breasts. Come to think of it, Pokémon is being pretty lenient when it comes to fanservice compared to other animes. Not all of the girls have huge breasts unless they are older women (Lorelei and Prof. Ivy). --[[Special:Contributions/Kenji-girl|☆]][[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 01:23, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

::::::: May also has the racks as well, which, along with the other things, makes me want to stop it. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 01:29, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

::::::::Pffsst. You call that a rack? I don't get why people think May's boobs are big. That's just my opinion. --[[Special:Contributions/Kenji-girl|☆]][[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 01:32, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

:::::::::Maybe they aren't as big as Prima's, but they are definitely far too large for her age. I mean, ask her side profile pictures if you don't believe me. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 01:33, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Love Hina pics? If I was more of the male Internet user stereotype, I'd jump for joy at the prospect, but at least someone else might garner "enjoyment" out of them. In the meantime, I'll prepare for the event by giving you a picture of Slave Leia (from Star Wars Episode VI) as soon as I'm back on Bulbagarden forums, because obviously it is not fanservice because she obviously did not enjoy it and it did serve a more meaningful purpose than showing off Carrie Fisher's sweet bod.

Crikey, you make such a big deal out of the "stripping" scene. If anything, it was Max's fault for suggesting that it was striptease in the first place, because, oh, maybe changing into swimsuits on the beach is normal? Besides, American cartoons are arguably worse with these kind of jokes, because several episodes have little boys running around naked (Dexter's Laboratory and The Fairly OddParents, as examples). And yes, controversy over children's TV shows have been done to death already in North America, so I guess you're out of a job when it comes to American cartoons. And I suspect (directed at Kenji-girl) that people think May's boobs are big because this is the Internet, where everything is blown out of proportion.

I laughed at your claim that Dawn dressing up as a French maid was scandalous. Okay, so Ash also dressing up as a maid is not scandalous? What about Ash's recent Tarzan outfit (check Bulbagarden's Ash Club for details)? Or are you being sexist against males by suggesting they can't be hot too? --[[User:PsychoRobo|PsychoRobo]] 15:31, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

:Look, I don't enjoy those things anymore than you do. I used that as a way to try and stop you from doing that (mocking me).

:Also, everyone else made a big deal out of the striptease as well! And anyways, blame the writers as well, since they set it up as a striptease as well. And also blame Ash for looking embarrased about what he just saw. and anyways, MOST people wear an undershirt when they go to the beach. They DON'T, however, go to the beach in their regular clothes and take them off in front of everyone. also, I barely even WATCH Fairly OddParents (as a matter of fact, my parents, as well as I, avoided that show like the plague for the same reasons they mostly avoid the Simpsons.), and while I used to watch Dexters Laboratory, I started to hate it when they did that musical episode.

:and another thing, an entire THREAD was made in regards to how Pokemon was becoming more fetishish and used Dawn's Cheerleader and Maid costumes as an example. I'll eliminate every single sexist action on this planet, male and female alike. Besides, how can I be sexist with my own gender? By being sexist towards males, I'm being sexist towards myself. And anyways, Ash didn't even WANT to wear the Maids outfit, as you can tell by his blushing out of humiliation.

:I have warned you that if you don't stop mocking me, I WILL be forced to post those pics if it stops you. And I will act on it, even though I feel as though this is a mistake. I have hated these pics, but they prove my point as to how degrading fanservice is, and most importantly, how the characters in question actually DO enjoy causing this scandal. You have brought this upon yourself...
:However, I'll be a bit merciful and delay it until I successfully upload the first part of my video, which, as soon as I download Version 12 of Pinnacle, shouldn't take too long, since the Images in question are ON this video. HOWEVER, that doesn't mean you are allowed to mock me. I mean, think of it this way, if your parents, or your friends (real life friends, I mean), mentioned their dislike of May OR Dawn, would you act the very same way towards them that you act towards me? If the answer is no, take that into account before you try to mock me again.

:[[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 16:17, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
::And that entire sexism thread lost all credibility after its first response, when Blackjack Palazzo claimed she wished to see more male fanservice. And there was another girl that said it was mostly males that argue over this kind of thing, and the girls don't see much of a problem. So much for feminism, eh? Plus, I don't know many males who would willingly cross-dress, besides characters like Harley, James, and Bugs Bunny. Ash's unwillingness to wear it is thus irrelevant. I also don't know what a musical episode of Dexter's Laboratory has to do with the discussion. Please stop throwing non sequiturs around if you wish to be taken seriously.

::Oh, you're being merciful? Well, that's just a bit more time to postpone posting Slave Leia pics on your account, then. Anyways, who said I didn't enjoy fanservice? It's so fun to mock.

::As for your last question, of course I would still act the same way towards you. Why should I let other people control the way I think? A lot of people don't like Pokemon in my school, so your "peer pressure" argument barely fazes me. Oh, wait, you're jealous, aren't you? You're jealous because I scored with the same Serebii mod that banned you. You can't believe that I could get on her good side while you ended up becoming the laughingstock of Serebii's idiot hunters, and that's why you put the "real life friends" part. Well, maybe if you weren't trying to usurp her position by judging everyone on the forum with your "holier-than-thou" attitude (kind of like Lisa Simpson), then maybe you wouldn't be in the position you are now! P.S. This is becoming increasingly irrelevant to Bulbapedia editing. If you wish to continue, put this on my Bulbagarden or Pokecommunity account (MetaRobo/PorygonSquared, respectively). [[User:PsychoRobo|PsychoRobo]] 16:48, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

== Linking to other wikis ==

When linking to other wikis, please remeber to use {{ }} around the link, not [[ ]]

Thanks. ♪♪[[User:ShinyPachirisu|Shiny]] [[User Talk:ShinyPachirisu|Pachirisu]] :) ♪♪ 00:38, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

== Let me explain something to you ==

Just because I said that it doesn't only apply to Misty doesn't mean you can go and put it on May and Dawn's pages.

The reason we have a page on SOVA, despite being a fan thing, is because it was a big deal. This isn't so much a big deal that caused fans to write hundreds of letters. Infact I doubt that many people even know about it.

We already mention what he said on [[Masamitsu Hidaka|his page]] and how some fans find it offensive. We don't need to affiliate the character with it as well. Yes it was a shitty thing to say but we don't need to be reminded of it everytime we visit Misty, May, or Dawn's pages. --[[Special:Contributions/Kenji-girl|☆]][[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 11:35, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

::Fine, I won't edit the pages, and I'm also sorry for my response on your talk page, while I'm at it. However, I'm only stopping because Hidaka's page already mentioned it. and anyways, as far as I'm concerned, if it doesn't apply to just one person involved, it applies to ALL people involved. So, next time you say something like that, try it in a way that I can understand. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 11:40, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

== Arceus/Mew dispute ==

I've put up a full explanation at [[Talk:Arceus (Pokémon)#Arceus vs. Mew]]. I don't mean to sound so aggressive, but there truly is no real basis for considering Mew the first. At best, it should be mentioned that the fan community considered it the first, but that was always fanon and never what the games actually claimed.

Again, sorry if I've offended you.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 06:32, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

:I also posted my response on that discussion. And also, Porygon MAY have been made later, but then, if it can't be a descendant of Mew, then HOW can Mew be able to transform into it? I mean, they HAD to have used some form of Mew's DNA in order for it to be able to transform into it and it's family (Besides, they used Mew's DNA to create Mewtwo, who's to say they used ALL of the Mew DNA to transform into it? Besides, the pokedex entries hint that the reason why Mewtwo is savage and aggressive is because they repeatedly spliced Mewtwo's DNA, so I'm guessing they may have used his DNA in Grimer/Muk, Castform, and, yes, even the Porygon Family, so in a sense, they are Mewtwo's Children, and thus, in a sense, Mew's Grandchildren. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 11:00, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
:::Replied on the talk page. As for your comment here, I'm sorry, but it is completely ignorant of any concept of genetics, especially the actual concept of [[wikipedia:RNA splicing|genetic splicing]] and what DNA ''does'', as well as the actual text of Porygon's Pokedex entries, and the in-game description of how {{m|Transform}} works.

:::Let me illustrate your basic misunderstanding - a child typically has distinct DNA from two sources ( a mother and a father). You may not know this, but the mother and father generally have ''completely'' distinct lineages, and share almost no DNA that all humans don't share - to put it simply, the mother and father are generally not brother and sister, or anything close.
:::Now, because of this, the child will have DNA from the mother ''and'' father. What you are claiming is analogous to saying that the child's father should be able to turn into the child's mother, because the child, his descendant, has DNA from his mother. But this is utter hogwash, and immediately recognizable as lunatic raving. The very use of sexual reproduction in macro-evolution is that it introduces '''''NEW''''' genes into the gene pool.
:::If transformation were inherent in the species ''at all'', it would be obvious to even the casual observer that it would be the ''child'' who could be expected to be able to transform into both the father or mother, ''as his very nature'' is to be a collection of both of their DNA.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 05:57, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
::::Okay, first off - you don't get to make ultimatums, that's not how a wiki works. Second off, where in the ''hell'' does the D/P Pokedex say that Mew is "believed to be the originator of all Pokémon", thought to "possibly contain the genetic code of every other Pokémon", or able to "learn every TM/HM"? Finally, how could "Arceus being the original one" and "Mew creating ''ALL'' Pokemon" ever be reconciled? They're necessarily contradictory!
::::However, to try and compromise with you ''without'' making up fanfiction and being dishonest about the Pokedex, I rewrote the section you keep adding without having removed it. Is this acceptable?[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 03:44, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::Fine, I thank you for at least keeping the gist of it. BTW, I wasn't lying about the Pokédex entry. As a matter of fact, I have copied and pasted Mew's D/P Dex entry from his article just for you to see it. here it is:
:::::'''''''Because it can use all kinds of moves, many scientists believe Mew to be the ancestor of Pokémon. '''''''
:::::And to further prove that I'm not lying, I ALSO am going to post a link:
:::::Bulbapedia.Bulbagarden.net/wiki/Mew_(Pokémon)#Pokédex_entries.
:::::Next time you try to accuse me of lying about it, read Mew's D/P pokedex entry first, since it still said that Mew was believed to be the ancestor of pokémon (the fact it said pokémon made it seem like it said all pokémon.).
:::::Also, I tried to reason with you multiple times, but you insisted that it shouldn't be in there, despite the fact that the Dex actually stated it, so I was forced to take drastic measures.
:::::[[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 10:33, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
::::::YEs, you ''were'' incorrect about the Pokedex entry - you claimed it specifically said those things, and ''it did not''. '''Those''' were the points in contention, and you keep trying to avoid them. The Dex does '''not''' "actually say it", so you're claim that I forced you to keep trying to pass off your speculation as fact is incorrect.
*Specifically:
#The DP pokedex entry says '''nothing''' about TMs/HMs.
#The DP pokedex entry says '''nothing''' about genetics.
#The DP pokedex entry says '''nothing''' about "''originating'' '''all''' Pokemon".[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 01:05, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
::Do I LOOK Like I care what the DP pokedex says?! I only care for what ALL of them said. And ANOTHER thing, they may have not explicitly mentioned "TMs/HMs", but the mere fact that Mew's DP pokédex entry said that it can use ''All kinds of moves'' implies that it can learn TMs and HMs as well, as well as natural, move tutors, and even moves only available from Metronome. As for Genetics, The closest thing it came to mentioning Genetics was in SSBB's Trophy, and besides which, the mere fact that it can learn transform (which is stated to be the recombining of DNA into the pokemon that matches that DNA) should be enough to prove it's the Ancestor. And for Originating All Pokemon. SO WHAT? The Pokédex entry ALSO didn't say it originated most, some, few, or even only one Pokemon, either. It just said "Ancestor of All Pokemon", and from what I can tell, especially with how people often interperet thing, if it doens't explicitly mention that it's only most, few, some, or only one pokemon that it is an ancestor of, that means it's the ancestor of All Pokemon. Therefore, Mew stated that it's ancestor of pokemon = ancestor of all pokemon.

::I also forgot to mention one thing. There's a Significant difference between Mew's transforming into a Pokemon and Ditto's Transforming into a pokémon. Ditto can only transform into a pokemon when it sees it [It's also implied that it can't go by memory], whileas with Mew, it's implied thar Mew can transform into any pokemon without necessarily needing to see it at first (as one of the problems with trying to get Mew in Emerald is that it can transform into pokemon, and in the Anime, it's been shown to transform into pokemon that it hasn't had any contact with, or at the very least not any direct contact [eg, Ho-oh, Taillow, etc.].).

::Even IF it's not directly mentioned in the D/P/P Pokedex, we must wait until GSDS comes out (if it comes out) or, assuming that there is one, generation 5 before we say that it's been retconned. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 01:23, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

== Wow! ==

In all the time you've been on Bulbapedia, you haven't made a single contribution to the Userspace! That's quite an accomplishment! --[[User:Politoed666|ニョロトノ]][[User talk:Politoed666|''666'']] 22:22, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
:Userspace? [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 22:37, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
::Its the user page and anything connected with it except talk pages. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[User:Jmath/Sandbox|'''th''']] 22:41, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
::Oh, that. See, it's in red spacing, and I'm not completely sure if I can create one. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 22:42, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
:::O.O You don't have to create a page... ♪♪[[User:ShinyPachirisu|Shiny]] [[User Talk:ShinyPachirisu|Pachirisu]] :) ♪♪ 22:44, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
==Legendary Genders==
it said none because Legendary's dont have genders! [[User:Mooites|Mooites]] 01:55, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
:Only in the games, though. Maybe you've forgotten, but a Baby Lugia DID appear in the show. If they didn't have genders, please explain how Silver even exists?! Heck, most of the legendaries had multiples in the anime, and if they don't have genders, how can they have multiple species at the same time? [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 02:16, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
::Asexual Reproduction? They are hermaphrodites? There's more methods of reproduction than male/female sexual reproduction, you know. [[User:PsychoRobo|PsychoRobo]] 22:11, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
::good point. [[User:Mooites|Mooites]] 02:19, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
:::Mooites, this is directed at PsychoRobo, so don't think it seems like i'm lecturing you. PsychoRobo, ONE. Next time you have to respond to my usertalk, or any talk page for that matter, place it AFTER the recent poster. TWO. Asexual Reproduction requires budding, for the most part. THREE, Hermaphrodites change genders (meaning, they change from female to male just to reproduce. So, in one sense, the Marril family are hermaphrodites.), so they would still need to mate in order to reproduce the same effect. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 22:35, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
::::First, to respond to three. The topic was whether legendaries had genders or not. Just because they need to mate doesn't mean they have defined genders. And to two, budding is not the only form of asexual reproduction. In fact, many creatures such as starfish and especially plants can reproduce with a fragment of the parent. [[User:PsychoRobo|PsychoRobo]] 00:06, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::I think Budding involves the separation of the original host, so Starfish actually DO bud to reproduce. Also, Plants technically require pollination in order to reproduce (the stigma is the male plant, the phyla is the female, the pollen goes to another plant, they make eggs known as seeds, get my drift?), so technically, it's not asexual reproduction. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 00:10, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
::::::Plants can regenerate asexually with one of their body parts removed, though. It's not their main option, but it is an option. [[User:PsychoRobo|PsychoRobo]] 14:51, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

== Edits ==

Please stop doing it. We can discuss it on the talk page. Just no more edits. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[User:Jmath/Sandbox|'''th''']] 22:07, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

:Fine, But the thing still stands. Now, if you want to add a footnote that this happened before the release of Platinum on the edits page (or request me to do so), fine, because that way, we'll have middle ground. I can say it's technically a out of order defeat, and you can say that it was before Platinum was released. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 22:11, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
::Anyway, where did you get that the order is changed? It isn't anywhere else here. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[User:Jmath/Sandbox|'''th''']] 22:13, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
:::Tv.com. The Platinum release thread. Specifically:

:::"Hearthome Gym is now the Third gym, Veilstone is the Fourth, and Pastoria is the Fifth

:::How dumb is it for Fantina not to have Drifblim. Her dress is best on it, and her gym in the anime was. "

:::"Oh, I didn't even notice the Gym order switch!

:::Yay, in Diamond and Pearl Fantina uses Drifblim in Super Contests, and since her dress is based on one I guess they'll let her keep that Driflblim. Now while the Drifblim/Duskull switch is odd, why in the world did they replace her Gengar with a Haunter? Just becuase she's no longer the fifth Gym they downgraded her Pokemon?

:::Though I do agree with the evolving of Gardenia's Cherubi into a Cherrim, hopefully Dawn will get one in the anime."

:::The Quotes were from SPDShadowRanger and Pikachu315111, respectively

:::[[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 22:23, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Are you sure what's written there can be taken as fact? How can some guy know that when the game hasn't even been released yet. Even Bulbapedia is not mentioning it. At least edit it when the game's released. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[User:Jmath/Sandbox|'''th''']] 22:26, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

:Considering how even Serebii (The webmaster, not the pokemon) is playing through Platinum as we speak, I'd say it already HAS been released. If serebii updated the site to include the changes in Roark's pokemon/Puzzle, It can be fairly certain that these others have played the game. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 22:30, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
::Then what is September 13 for? Some guys get special privileges? [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[User:Jmath/Sandbox|'''th''']] 22:34, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
:::I just changed the release date, and mentioned why in it's talk page. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 22:35, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

If you could make the footnote for that trivia, go ahead. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[User:Jmath/Sandbox|'''th''']] 22:41, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

== Style ==

Please read the {{bp|manual of style}} and familiarize yourself with English grammar before you edit too much more. Your recent edits to [[legendary birds]] spelled Pokémon as pokemon, used "it's", among as possessive, and has weird capitals all over the place, among other errors. --[[User:Martonimos|Martonimos]][[User talk:Martonimos|((Argh]]|[[Special:Contributions/Martonimos|Blargh))]] 20:57, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

== Delete? ==

Do you want your user page deleted?Can I put the tag on it? another user generously made one for you--[[User:DCM|DCM]][[User talk:DCM|((Nag at Me!]][[Special:Contributions/DCM|Edits))]]

== Speculation ==

Please don't put speculation in main articles; just put it on the talk page. [[User:Dialgarules|Dialgarules]] 01:30, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
:I'm sorry, but you ''really'' have to make sense on this site. You put Poké-ball when it SAYS IN THE WELCOME THINGY to say '''Poké [space] Ball!''' When you say that Meowth "prefers to walk around" it could mean a lot of things. You could say that it likes to be out of its Poké [space] Ball. How about you take a quick look at [[Bulbapedia:Manual_of_style|this]]? [[User:Dialgarules|Dialgarules]] 00:39, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

== Pokémon Heroes Subtitles ==

There are such things that are called, oh maybe you've heard of them, ERRORS. I've listened to it several times and it does not sound like "I'm sorry" to me. Sometimes the people making the subtitles mess up. Also the whole Misty catching Totodile thing doesn't float. That's a matter of opinion and making speculations because of the way the balls were thrown. Don't put any of these things on Totodile's page again.--[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 10:52, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
:Ok, but then again, technically, several other things like the Major events section, Trivia, and Errors section technically shouldn't appear in those pages either, since it's kinda speculation in and of itself, no matter how it's worded. Heck, the entirety of Bulbapedia's articles are speculation. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 13:42, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

== Anime abilities ==

Please do not add unconfirmed abilities to anime Pokémon pages. It doesn't matter if the only ability for a {{AP|Totodile}} is {{a|Torrent}}, or if the only ability for a {{AP|Larvitar}} is {{a|Guts}}. Unless it is confirmed in words in the anime, the ability stays as Unknown. The unconfirmed ability removal was started by {{u|Politoed666}} an EB member. - [[User:Kogoro|'''<sc>Kogoro</sc>''']] '''|''' [[User talk:Kogoro|'''<sc>Talk to me</sc>''']] '''|''' 04:34, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
:If that's the case, should we eliminate the majority of Psyduck's wins (or participations in battles in other words?), or heck, Pikachu's Participation in Round 2 of the Saffron Gym battle? I mean, they never explicitly said in the anime "I choose Pikachu"/"Pikachu, GO!" or "Psyduck, I choose you!" those times (if anything, the opposite is true, as with Psyduck, it pops out when she's choosing Staryu, Starmie, or some other pokemon, and Ash tried to tell Pikachu to avoid battling Kadabra.), and thus is the same thing, as far as I'm concerned (I also posted this for Politoed666 on Maverick Nate's talk Page.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 04:57, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
::Then understand what she meant to say and not what she literally said. Psyduck is ''used'' in the anime. Torrent is not. Pikachu is ''used'' in the anime. Guts is not. Abilities that are not mentioned and do not ever appear should not be put on anime pages. [[User:IIMarckus|IIMarckus]] 05:04, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
:::Even IF the ability is the only thing it's got?! I mean, common sense should dictate the fact that, if it's the only ability it can ever have, it is to be included in the abilities section, REGARDLESS if it's stated in the anime or not. Besides, Abilities ARE used as well (they activate under certain conditions). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 05:08, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
::::The anime and games barely match up at the best of times. You might as well be adding “Based on the moves such‐and‐such knows, it is probably between levels 34 and 40” to pages. Nothing suggests that the Totodile in the anime has Torrent. [[User:IIMarckus|IIMarckus]] 05:11, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
:::::On the case of the ability needing to be mentioned in words, how else would an ability be confirmed? Misty's Psyduck popping out of it's Poké Ball and battling is visual, so it's obvious without any words. It's rather hard to not notice the flash of light come from Misty's pack, then Psyduck standing near her. With abilities, it's a little less black & white. Unless someone like Brock says something like "Totodile's using its ability, Torrent!" we're not able to know that it's actually Torrent activating or not. I hope you understand now. - [[User:Kogoro|'''<sc>Kogoro</sc>''']] '''|''' [[User talk:Kogoro|'''<sc>Talk to me</sc>''']] '''|''' 05:41, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

== Grammar ==

The first letter of every sentence is capitalized, and Pokémon is spelled with an é and an uppercase P. You've been here long enough to know that, so you should have gotten it the first time. ''[[User:Maverick Nate|'''Maverick''']][[User talk:Maverick Nate|'''Nate''']]'' 15:45, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

:Please, please starting using better grammar. Stop making so many run-on sentences. And stop capitalizing words that don't need to be like ''dub''. Only capitalize the first word in the sentence, Pokémon names, character names, anything with Poké in front of it, and proper nouns. Also you use ''whileas'' in your sentences A LOT. Whileas is not a word. If you want, but really not needed, put ''while as''. But you really don't need it. Just say ''while''. And don't over use those parenthesis (). You use them way too much. And try not to add these extra words like ''merely'', ''actually'', or ''clearly'' unless absolutely needed. Thank you. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 06:05, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

== Ironically ==

Please don't over user the term 'ironically'. Thanks, --[[User:RexRacer|'''Rex]][[Quilava (Pokémon)|Racer''']] [[User talk:RexRacer|'''''-talk''''']] 15:52, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

== "Focusing" ==

There is a difference between an episode focusing on a particular character, and a particular character supporting them. For episode 232? That is not an episode focusing on Misty. Brock? Yes. Look a little more closely at these roles, then decide who it's focused on. -[[User:Sketch|Sketch]] 21:01, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
:Well, actually it's focused on both. You see, if it wasn't for Misty, Brock would have become the Ninetale's owner's reincarnate, and Ash would have also completely fallen for the deception, and Brock would also have never figured out that the Ninetales in question was just trying to relive it's memories of it's own trainer, so it's also focused upon in there. Now, if you want "supporting", Ash is a good example, He didn't initially think about it being a trick/illusion made by Ninetales, even claiming Misty was paranoid, and only started to believe when Ash saw Brock go through her.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 21:06, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
::Just because Misty figured out what Ninetails was doing doesn't mean it's a Misty focused episode. Stop trying to look for any little thing that makes Misty the focus of the episode. Like 133. Pikachu and Meowth were also the focal points of the episode so why didn't you think of adding Ash and Team Rocket as focuses. Because they are not. The focuses were the Pokémon. Not Misty. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 00:28, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
:::Actually, in regards to EP133, it's because Meowth and Pikachu already have their OWN episode focusing templates, so adding in Jessie James Ash or Team Rocket's episode focusing templates would have been pointless.

:::And anyways, she didn't merely just "Figure it out", she tried to warn Ash and especially Brock for a significant portion of the episode. See, anything a main character does that's significant to the episode as well as focuses on them for the majority of the time is a "episode focused on so-and-so" episode in and of itself, and Contests/Gym Battles and even Captures aren't enough. I mean, Jessie, for instance, won a ribbon in the episode where Ash beat fantina, was this a Jessie-oriented episode? no, because she was barely even focused on [in fact, unless I'm mistaken, which I probably am, i think the contest was actually not even shown until after Ash won the battle] the episode [[EP103|Misty Meets her Match]] was a similar scenario.). Now, if I added in the template for episode 001, then yes, your accusations would be legitimate, correct, and justified.

:::It doesn't matter anyways, as I have already completed the test anyways (Ash:40, Misty:46, maybe Ash:40, Misty:45 now.), and this was actually a test to see if Ash was truly the central character (the central character would usually have most of the entire show focused on him/her. As he didn't exceed Misty, he's not really a central main character.). the only part Misty had in it was to see whether she was actually equal to Ash, or rather, to set a fair comparison between the characters to have it be a fair test (I can't use Brock or Tracey, because that would be a no contest, and thus, an unfair advantage on Ash's part.). I also plan on doing the same thing with Ash and May in regards to AG, and Ash and Dawn in DP as well.

:::On a side note, I also did it to statistically find out which of the girls was actually close to being Ash's equal (I earlier speculated Misty, but I found out that she actually exceeded Ash), and I only did it because I have certain doubts of Dawn actually being equal to Ash (since I researched it, and noticed initially that Misty seemed closer to equality to Ash than May and Dawn were). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 01:08, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
::::Just because Togepi doesn't have a focusing category yet doesn't automatically make Misty the character of focus. News flash, Ash is the main character of the show not Misty. And there is WAY MORE THAN 40 episodes focusing on Ash. As for the female character that is Ash's equal, I believe it's Dawn. For someone who's been in the series for 107 episodes, she sure had a significant amount of episodes focusing on her. Maybe not as much as Misty, but Misty was around for 250 plus episodes. At the rate the show is going, Dawn will probably have more episodes than Misty. I know you might not like to hear that, but it's the truth. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 01:15, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

::::in regards to Togepi, if you are talking about Tanks a lot, it's because Misty pretty much organized the attack among other things. As for your claims that Ash is focused upon more than Misty (and more than 40 episodes), that's not even close to a true statement. I already did the analysis of all the episodes I could, outrightly ignoring those that are completely unknown. Also, Most of the Johto episodes didn't even focus on Ash at all (and also didn't focus on Misty, Brock, OR Team Rocket), Instead, it focused on COTDs with even Ash being nothing more than the Background, so, in all reality, Ash isn't the central character you think he is. If anything, it's you whose being more biased. I was trying to make it as fair as I can. There were even Gym matches that barely even focused on Ash at all, despite his participating in them (Case in point: Misty Meets her Match.) And also, the majority of the captures he made in the Kanto Saga either had him sharing the spotlight (Ash Catches a Pokémon, which not only dealt with Ash's captures, but Character Development from Misty as well, since a significant part of the episode dealt with her trying to cope with Caterpie despite her fear of bug-types/bugs.), or was never even in the spotlight in the first place (Charmander and the Stray Pokemon, as that episode dealt with Brock trying to help Charmander and all that, among other things, and Ash pretty much took Charmander.).

::::And also, I counted the episode listings thus far in regards to Dawn-centric episodes, and out of the 107 episodes thus far, only 20 episodes were actually focused on Dawn (see, in order for it to be a lot for a girl who has been in for 107 episodes, it needs to be, oh... 40 episodes in that range at least.). Misty had more by this time (7 more by the halfway point, and we just went by the halfway point already, as the 12th movie trailer implied that the upcoming 12th movie will be the last DP series movie.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 01:41, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
:::::This is the problem I have with your counting. Obviously there are others who do not agree that characters in certain episodes have "focus". Therefore your "statistics" aren't entirely accurate. You can say that "Oh, this character is the focus in this episode so that gives them this many episodes..." and so forth...that doesn't make it true. -[[User:Sketch|Sketch]] 01:48, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
::::::Since others seem to not agree amongst themselves, that also means that even THEIR views on what's "Focus" isn't entirely accurate either. And anyways, if that's the case, then Ash never really had much focus in the Leagues, even though those league episodes were listed as episodes focused on him. It's no different. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 01:51, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
:::::::Misty wasn't the one who orginized the plan in Tanks A lot. From what I remember, it was mostly Team Rocket's idea. You give Misty WAY TOO MUCH credit for things. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 02:02, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
::::::::Like how you gave too much credit to Ash or Dawn? you don't seem to be getting this, even without Tanks a Lot, she still had more ACTUAL character-centric episodes than Ash anyhow, and had more character-centric episodes than Dawn, anyways, even by range. And hey, what about the part about Entei at your own risk being a Brock centric episode just because his Foretress evolving, even though there were episodes where a main characters pokemon evolved even though said main character wasn't even the focus of the episode ("March of the Exeggutor Squad" says hi, since the episode was actually a Misty-centric episode by all definitions, and yet Ash's Charmeleon evolved, despite his barely even being out of the background.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 02:17, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Because Ash is the absolute main character of the show. And you only so far counted the original series episodes. What about Advanced and DP? You can't possibly believe Misty has more character focused episodes than Ash. And as for Entie At Your Own Risk, it does automatically a character focused episode when one of their Pokémon evolves. There Pokémon accidentally wondering off doesn't. And you say that its Misty focused because Togepi got inside the tank but refuse to acknowledge Ash and Team Rocket for the very same reason.

Personally, I think your a bit Misty obsessed and are looking for any reason to label Misty the focus of an episode. Please come to the realization that Misty was not the main focus of the series and that Ash was, and still is. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 02:27, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

:No, he ISN'T the absolute main character. Also, I counted the original series episodes because I just wanted to focus on whose the more equal female. And anyways, since you said "Original Series", that's because it's three different series in Japan, meaning, trying to compare is ridiculous beyond belief. I mean, it's like trying to say Ash was more popular than May in the Original series, it's silly. As for the whole thing about evolution=character-focus episode, no it doesn't. In order for it to truly be a character-centric episode, the character in question must have actual focus for more than 50% of the entire episode. As Brock wasn't even focused on for most of the episode, evolution or not, it's not an actual "Brock-centric episode".

:Also, I'm not misty-obsessed (aside from wanting to want her to return and working to make sure i do that, of course.). Believe me, If I WAS truly what you had described me, I would have labeled EP001, and absolutely every single episode Misty was in for that matter [even that brief cameo she had in the Hoenn Conference), as being a Misty-centric episode just because she's in it. And anyways, even if she wasn't, Ash wasn't either. I mean, I could list a few episodes that didn't focus on ANY of the main characters at all, like the majority of the Johto saga (The Xatu episode didn't focus on Ash, the Sunflora Vileplume episode didn't focus on Ash, the the Red Gyarados arc didn't focus on Ash [if it focused on anyone, it was Lance], etc. etc.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 03:02, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

::Yes, he is. Misty and the others are main characters but the anime basically revolves around Ash. ESPECIALLY in the original series in which you keep insisting Misty is the center of the series. What did Misty do? Was it Misty who competed in the Gym Battles? Was it Misty who competed in the Pokémon League? Was it Misty who was deciding where they were heading next? She was basically a character like Brock, Tracey, and Max are. One of Ash's friends who follows him and really doesn't do anything that greatly impacts the direction of the series. This does not mean that they are not important but they are basically behind Ash and are not his equal in anyway. The beginning of the Japanese openings never said "Satoshi, Kasumi, and Takeshi". They always said "Satoshi". It wasn't until the Diamond and Pearl that it was changed to "Satoshi and Hikari". It was the Advanced Generation were they decided to share the main point of the series with another character, May.

::You seem to be misunderstanding what I meant. I didn't mean every single episode is Ash focused. I'm saying that the anime in general is Ash focused.

::To Bulbapedia's standards, an episode in which a main character catches a Pokémon, evolves a Pokémon, or releases a Pokémon is an automatic focus on a particular character. Regardless of what you think.

::Yes, you are indeed Misty obsessed if you believe that she was more important of a character than Ash is. Even I don't say that about Tracey. If Misty was indeed the most important character of the series than why isn't she in it anymore? Why did the producers decide to keep Brock and not her?

::So are you trying to tell me that what ever happened after the original series doesn't matter? That it doesn't matter that Ash continued to be in more episodes after Misty's departure. Get a clue. Ash is the center of the anime followed by Dawn and May then the other characters, which includeds Misty. Of course Team Rocket is up their with May and Dawn as the opposing side to the heroes. You need to except that. Just because Misty has a lot of fans doesn't make her more important in the series than Ash is. You are being way too baised in your decisions. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 03:51, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

:::''Yes, he is. Misty and the others are main characters but the anime basically revolves around Ash. ESPECIALLY in the original series in which you keep insisting Misty is the center of the series. What did Misty do? Was it Misty who competed in the Gym Battles? Was it Misty who competed in the Pokémon League? Was it Misty who was deciding where they were heading next? She was basically a character like Brock, Tracey, and Max are. One of Ash's friends who follows him and really doesn't do anything that greatly impacts the direction of the series. This does not mean that they are not important but they are basically behind Ash and are not his equal in anyway. The beginning of the Japanese openings never said "Satoshi, Kasumi, and Takeshi". They always said "Satoshi". It wasn't until the Diamond and Pearl that it was changed to "Satoshi and Hikari". It was the Advanced Generation were they decided to share the main point of the series with another character, May. ''

:::Actually, she did greatly impact the series, as if it wasn't for her, Ash would have DIED. Since you guys are saying that he IS the Anime, then, if it wasn't for her, the anime would have ended right then and there. Besides, the only time relating to battles where the focus was undeniably on Ash was in the Leagues (The Gyms are debatable, as the Gym episodes seemed to focus more on the characters appearing than on Ash himself, or in the case of the Rudy Gym Episode, focused almost exclusively on Misty.). Besides, the point of the poll was how much screentime she really got compared to the Girls, and to be honest, I wasn't even anticipating the results to be as high as it was.

:::''You seem to be misunderstanding what I meant. I didn't mean every single episode is Ash focused. I'm saying that the anime in general is Ash focused.''

:::You said he was the "Absolute" main character, which, according to Webster, means everything. which, taking that definition into account, would imply that Absolutely every millisecond of every episode would be focused on Ash, which it really wasn't.

:::''To Bulbapedia's standards, an episode in which a main character catches a Pokémon, evolves a Pokémon, or releases a Pokémon is an automatic focus on a particular character. Regardless of what you think.''

:::Regardless if the episode focused 90% more on a Main Character other than Ash and Ash himself got only 10% when the capture/evolution/release episode was made (Like in the Charmander episode, even though Ash caught Charmander, it was more focused on Brock, as he was the one who reacted first to Damian's neglect, he's the one who cared for Charmander the most, he was the one who got extremely worried about Charmander when it left upon recovery to try and reunite with Damian. All Ash did throughout the episode was capture it [and, according to Brock, checked it's tail.].). That's crazy! I mean, Misty caught Psyduck, and I'll be the first to admit that the episode of it's capture barely even focused on her. If it even focused on anyone, it was Officer Jenny and Nurse Joy, which was a major reason as to why I didn't even include it.

:::''Yes, you are indeed Misty obsessed if you believe that she was more important of a character than Ash is. Even I don't say that about Tracey. If Misty was indeed the most important character of the series than why isn't she in it anymore? Why did the producers decide to keep Brock and not her?

:::Actually, I wasn't even thinking Misty was more important than Ash when I did this test. I just was doing it to measure the amount of character centric episodes Misty got in comparison to Ash (As well as the females in comparison to Ash as a whole.). heck, to be honest, I didn't even anticipate that Misty would get more episodes than Ash (The least I could predict was probably Misty: 45% Ash: 65%, if not 50/50.). The only reason why I had gotten the results to be 40:46 for Ash and Misty was because I didn't realize that someone had already listed the Johto Conference episodes as being Ash centric. Besides, if I was truly that which you described me as, I would have posted every single episodes that Misty ever appeared in as being a "Misty Centric" episode just because she appeared (Which I didn't and I actually gave reasons for why the episodes were focused on Misty or Ash.).

:::''So are you trying to tell me that what ever happened after the original series doesn't matter? That it doesn't matter that Ash continued to be in more episodes after Misty's departure. Get a clue. Ash is the center of the anime followed by Dawn and May then the other characters, which includeds Misty. Of course Team Rocket is up their with May and Dawn as the opposing side to the heroes. You need to except that. Just because Misty has a lot of fans doesn't make her more important in the series than Ash is. You are being way too baised in your decisions.''

:::No I wasn't. And anyways, if Ash was truly the center of the show as you claim, please explain to me why the writers actually considered replacing Ash twice. You know exactly what I mean, the special Raikou: The Legend of Thunder was released midway through Johto, where Ash wasn't even in that special, period, much less the Main Character, and some fans even stated that the special was a prototype for a series that wouldn't have involved Ash at all. Later, they revealed a Poster advertizing for a DP anime that had Dawn, Dawn, and Dawn alone on it, absolutely no sign of Ash on it, period. Some of the fanbase thought they were actually replacing Ash for the series because of that (and Dogasu even admitted that the reasoning behind the belief was legitimate). Now granted, they decided to keep Ash on, but the mere fact that they even thought of that special and making that Poster in that way implies that the writers felt that even Ash was expendable, which implies that, even back in the original series, Ash wasn't the star of the show (The writers wouldn't even THINK of doing the Raikou special if they felt that Ash was truly the star of the show.). So who's being more biased now? [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 14:28, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

You know Weedle, Ash IS the main character of the show. That doesn't mean he has to get the focus in ''every'' episode. It's on his goals that the anime revolves around not on any other characters. Its been like that since the beginning of the series. Ash always seems to be there when everyone else isn't. And the part about Misty saving Ash, do you really think a main character would '''die'''? That's never going to happen. Sure they may be life-threatening moments but they would never ''die''.

Naruto is a perfect example of being the main character but not given the focus in every episode. Its just like that with Ash. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 15:38, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
:I really don't think your experiment should have been done in the mainspace--[[User:RexRacer|'''Rex]][[Quilava (Pokémon)|Racer''']] [[User talk:RexRacer|'''''-talk''''']] 15:53, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

:Technically, he did die, twice. In the episode "The Tower of Terror", Haunter took Ash and Pikachu's souls out of their bodies after they caused the Chandelier to fall on them. The second time was in the first movie, where, after Ash got in the way of Mewtwo and Mew's attack, he turned to stone, couldn't awaken, and the only reason he was even alive now was because of the tears and he was, both clinically and truly, up to the point of the tears, dead. So, yes, they did "Kill" Ash.

:Anyways, not focusing on him is one thing, as there were plenty of episodes in the original series (a bit too much if you really think about it, even WITHOUT Misty), that didn't actually focus on him. No, my point was they not only were he was '''not''' focused upon in the ''[[The Legend of Thunder]]'' special, but he didn't even appear in it, period. A similar thing happened when they revealed that they had plans of making a DP Anime. They unveiled a poster of it, and the way they unveiled Dawn for the first time ever made it seem as though she was not only replacing Ash, but that Ash was NOT going to be appearing in the anime. That's my point. I mean, think about it, Even IF the writers didn't give Ash the focus in every single episode, if they felt that Ash was the Be-all-end-all of the show, why would they do [[The Legend of Thunder|a special]] that didn't even have a cameo from Ash, or a Promotional Poster for DP that focused on Dawn alone, and made it seem as though Ash was going to leave the Anime, and Dawn would take up the mantle of the star of the show. I mean, in the DP poster's case, it was one of the biggest discussions at the time. Those, to me, implied that the writers viewed even Ash as expendable.

:As for that comment for RexRacer, care to suggest where else I could put this experiment then? [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 16:02, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
::Sure at the time of the poster, people may have thought Ash was going to be replaced but the writers never specifically stated it. They may have been referencing the fact that a new girl is going to play a important role in the anime not as in being the only one. And Ash could not be in the Raikou special since he was at Hoenn at the time and the special happened in Johto. And you can't say from one incident that Ash is expendable. Again, I state the example of Naruto. There have been episodes in which he hasn't appeared at all.

Sure Ash may have kinda "died" but he always came back almost immediately instead of staying dead. Which means a ''lot''. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 16:14, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

:No, The Raikou Special actually took place (And AIRED in Japan, don't bring Chronicles into it) between Hatching a Plan, and Dues and Don'ts. And it wasn't a chronicles episode (Heck, Pokemon Hoso hadn't even been aired yet.). They even referenced several parts involving the special in the Johto League when Ash fought Jackson/Vincent.). As for referencing a new girl, They had a poster showing a new character named May and they had Ash with her as well when it was first unveiled, so that cannot be it.

:As for Naruto, were these main episodes, or were these episodes from a spinoff series similar to Hoso/Chronicles? [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 16:31, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
::Okay whatever. That doesn't mean that one special is enough to disprove Ash's status. The characters of the special hasn't been given a major appearance ever since then except Vincent but he appeared for one episode anyway. And for the poster thing, Dawn is kinda more important than May was. In all the DP movies, she is given equal importance with Ash unlike May who was only given importance in '''1''' movie.

::And the Naruto episodes were the main ones. I don't know if there were spinoffs but it doesn't matter. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 16:43, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

:::I think that a member of BMGf by the name of Rhyperior pointed out that it was Ash who saved Alamos/The world in Movie 10, and that Dawn ultimately took the back seat, anyways (The only remotely important thing that she did within the movie was save Ash) as it was Ash who told Pikachu and Pachirisu to reactivate the device, according to him, thus saving the world/Alamos, and he also scolded Palkia. Also, in the Shaymin Movie, other than the fact that she and brock tried to stop the Glacier (which even then, they weren't even the ones who actually stopped it, it was Regigigas), she didn't really do much. I mean, did she pair up with Ash and the two of them together, along with Shaymin, Muten, and Giratina, utterly defeat Zero? No, Ash was the one who ended up stopping him once and for all. So, in actuality, she actually had the same role May did, meaning she never was important to begin with. And, arguably, May wasn't given any importance in any movies, considering the fact that the climax of the 9th movie had her act like a total coward and didn't even attempt to save Manaphy (Instead, it was Ash who ended up saving the day, as usual.). So, in any case, I still say that Ash was expendable, as the character didn't appear, and the special, according to many, was a test to see what Audiences would feel, which implies that they had plans to replace Ash. Plus, the Poster, not to mention. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 16:58, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
::::Ash and Dawn were both on the tower activating the music device not Ash alone. It wasn't just Ash's Pikachu but Dawn's Pachirisu that also helped in it. In the Giratina movie, both Ash ''and'' Dawn went to the Reverse World not just Ash alone. She interacted with Shaymin almost as much as Ash. And how could you say May wasn't given any importance in the 9th movie? Its not about how she acted. A main plot point in the movie was May interacting with Manaphy and treating it like its mother. Whatever she did in the movie near the end doesn't matter since their relationship was shown for a major portion of the movie.

::::And like I said before, the writers haven't made any move to remove Ash from the story. The special is a seperate entity with its characters almost never appearing again in the anime. They may have looked to have tried a few attempts to remove him but the fact that they keep bringing Ash back show that he IS important. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 17:46, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
:::::Sigh, look, if you want to mention this to anyone, tell it to Rhyperior, assuming you are also a member of BMGf, all I did was just quote him. As for the part about the Reverse World, I know they both were in the Reverse world in the first visit, but during the second visit, it was Ash, and Ash alone who defeated Zero once and for all (Dawn was stuck trying to stop the glacier that, in the end, only Regigigas was able to stop, remember?). I mean, the summary of that movie even stated this.

:::::As for your point as to how she raised and interacted with Manaphy in the movie, if the same deal with Misty interacting with Togepi wasn't even considered even remotely important despite some episodes focusing on Togepi, then, Titular pokemon or not, her interacting with Manaphy isn't important either.

:::::As for thinking he's important, so what, Brock stays on the show for barely as long as Ash has, and he's not even as important as him, so Episode lengths aren't a detemining factor. And anyways, in order for someone to be a central character, not only do they NOT replace the character, they also are unable to even think about replacing it (Which, at least twice, they did think of replacing him.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 17:58, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Ash hasn't been replaced in the main anime. That's what matters not some random special. The anime is more important than the Chronicles or the raikou special. Its even more imortant than the movies. I know Brock has been there for a good portion of the series but he doesn't do that much anyway. This is Ash's story not anyone else's since he is in every episode.

Misty has interacted with Togepi to what extent in the movies? She practically just holds it for a major portion of the movies. May did a ''lot'' with Manaphy. It also helps that Manaphy is the titular Pokémon for the movie.

:Let's see, she fed it, she discovered some of it's metronome abilities, had it fight against Pikachu at one point, heck, her Togepi was also integral to defeating Colonel Hanson and reclaiming the Togepi Paradise. Besides, if we want to get technical, what did May ''actually'' do with it. She also, for the most part, held it, and heck, when it got kidnapped, what did she do? just stand there!

:They may not have done it, but they have certainly thought about it. I mean sure, they didn't replace him, but the point was they thought about replacing him. And anyways, considering how they referred to that special in the main series, anyways, it's a main series episode in and of itself. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 18:21, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
::I am talking about the movies. Misty hasn't done anything with Togepi in a movie. Sure Togepi has had its share of screentime in the anime but only in a few episodes. Out of the entire Johto season, Togepi might have had only less than 10 episodes that truly concentrate on it. It did ''nothing'' for the rest.

::And as long as Ash isn't replaced and keep appearing in every episode, he is the main character. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 18:28, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
Just so you guys know, the fact that this conversation is taking place is hilarious. I don’t even see why we have these categories that are almost solely based on opinion; it’s not as if we don’t have enough categories already (over two ''thousand''). [[User:IIMarckus|IIMarckus]] 19:08, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
:Well, in the Movies case, I can name one thing it did. It was implied that Togepi was the one who freed Zapdos and Moltres, as we saw it doing that "metronome" arm wave thing when Tracey told everyone to get down in regards to the whole Fire, Water, and Electricity combinations = an explosion. (In case you don't recall that scene, it's because 4Kids cut the scene out when they localized the film.). Besides, what did May do with Manaphy, anyways? I mean, she didn't battle with it (which is what the fanbase thinks of when they say "doing anything" in regards to a character.). And even IF Ash is the main character, the template already listed Brock, Misty, May, Dawn, and even the likes of Tracey, Max, and Todd as main characters, so either way, he's not THE main character (He's only A main character.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 20:55, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
::Again I state, as long as Ash keeps appearing in every episode in the main anime, he is the main character. Once he gets replaced, at least for a few episodes, then I will agree with you. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 08:17, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

== The reason ==

The reason why Brock, Tracey, and Misty had information about them getting replaced is because a staff member from the show actually explained the situation. The Dawn replacing Ash thing is all fan speculation and no one from the show EVER said that they were considering replacing Ash. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 21:52, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
:So What?! The GSDS article was still fan speculation in and of itself, and yet you freely chose to keep it on despite that. Heck, the whole Misty issue was actually placed into Misty's article BEFORE Masamitsu Hidaka's revalation. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 21:58, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

== Edit War ==

Thank goodness you guys somehow resolved it...under normal circumstances, you both would be blocked, depending on the amount of edits against...keep that in mind next time... [[User:Ht14|''ht'']][[User talk:Ht14|''14'']] 14:02, 25 December 2008 (UTC)
:I was just trying to put that out due to the fact that the circumstances of whether capturing them was the cause of the events of the second movie or if it was just territorial disputes (since the film implied that both were the cause.), and besides which, none of the Other times a Legendary bird was captured did a weather anamoly occur, which I pointed out with the events of Jack Walker capturing that Zapdos and riding it, as well as the fact that, other than the lake being almost a biological hazard, it's near-death didn't impact the weather. Jmath had to insist that they controlled the weather just because Lawrence III set the chain of events in motion (Even though Zapdos explicitly told Pikachu that it was conquering Fire Island, which definitely implied that Territorial disputes were a main cause of the events.) {{Unsigned|Weedle Mchairybug}}
::It doesn't matter. We resolved it. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 14:13, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

== Pokémon ==

Pokémon is not spelled "pokemon", it's "Pokémon". [[User:Chocolate|Chocolate]] ([[User talk:Chocolate|Chat with Me]]) 23:58, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
:I'm not sure if you should changed Haunter, but if you were to do it, you msut remember to chang it on Ash's page to be consistence.--[[Bulbapedia:Project Custom Sprite|☆]][[User:Tavisource|Tavis]][[User talk:Tavisource|ource]] 00:09, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

== Your trivia ==

The fact that multiple admins have reverted your edits to High Touch should be an indication that it is not needed. Please stop adding the information, as it is not relevant to anything. --[[User:PAK Man|PAK Man]] [[User talk:PAK Man|Talk]] 22:14, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

== That trivia ==

Let's put it this way...Take a small 5-6 year old kid. Ask him/her to do some advanced mathematics. Do you really expect the kid to suddenly do it. He just won't understand what you're saying to him. Does that make him disobedient??? Same with Psyduck. I don't remember any time where Psyduck actually battled with any determination to win. Its just basically clueless and once it gets a headache, it just releases its power. Chimchar also doesn't fall in the disobedient category. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 14:54, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
:It's disobedient, no matter whether it's intentional or not. Besides, if you want to get technical, Chimchar, during the events of ''[[DP081|Chim-Charred]]'', was very similar to Psyduck, and yet is also listed in it's trivia section as being the second fire type belonging to Ash that disobeyed him (and fourth of Ash's Pokemon overall to disobey him), the first being Charizard. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 15:46, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
::It's not disobedient because of ignorance, it's disobedient because of stupidity. That's different. -[[User:Sketch|Sketch]] 15:49, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
:::Were you talking to me or to Jmath? BTW, were you for the part of relocating of that trivia to it's own bit? Because it was still disobediance, therefore, Dawn's only the second main character other than Ash to have a disobedient pokemon, regardless of whether it's clueless or deliberate. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 15:51, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
::::I know I'm just getting involved because of RC watching, but my two cents is--who cares? Will this "(Character) is the (n)th person shown to have a Pokémon, in this case (whoever), disobey" format continue for ALL disobedient Pokés? If so, that seems...kinda unnecessary. -- '''[[User:evkl|evkl]]''' [[User_talk:evkl|(need to talk?)]] 15:57, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
:::::Well, I guess you might as well remove most of those things in Dawn's Trivia section, since almost half of it just compares her to some characters. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 16:03, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Read my first post. Its NOT disobedient. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 20:46, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
:Look, Obedience means following orders. It doesn't matter if the character is rebellious or just plan clueless, if they don't follow orders, they're disobedient. it's that simple. It's a moot point anyways, since Kenji-girl, one of the high ranking members of the site, has already stated that, whether he was intending to be disobedient or not, it still counted as a disobedient pokemon, and therefore, Dawn's only the second main character aside from Ash to own a Disobedient pokemon. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 20:54, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
::Could you blame a child for being disobedient for not knowing advanced mathematics??? Then why don't people punish them or something? [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 22:58, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
:::When did Ash actually punish Charizard? when did Dawn actually punish her Mamoswine? I don't recall them actually punishing their pokemon. In fact, the only character whom I would say actually punishes pokemon would be Paul. And anyways, no matter how hard you argue, unless you have another mod on your side, it's already written that Misty already owned a disobedient pokemon before Dawn ever appeared on the show (and considering how, like you, she also thought I obssess about Misty, that's saying quite a lot.) [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 23:04, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
::::Sure...Its real smart to punish powerhouses like Mamoswine and Charizard. They are going to eat you alive! And you still haven't answered my question. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 23:08, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
:::::Mamoswine is a vegetarian, so it can't eat dawn even if it wanted to (It's based off of the Wooly Mammoth, a herbivore.). You do have a good point on Charizard, though, though then again, Paul was known to punish any of his most powerful pokemon (I mean, he probably was going to do something bad to his Torterra when found oud it was teaching Ash's Grotle how to improve itself.). Anyways, I thought that question about Charizard and Mamoswine WAS my answer. either way, please stop, as Kenji-Girl had already agreed with me about the entire thing about Misty being the first main character other than Ash to own a disobedient pokemon. If you have a problem with it, take it to her. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 23:19, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

I looked up "disobedience" and it means '''willful''' refusal to follow orders. Chimchar and Psyduck both don't fall in this category. That proves your point wrong. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 23:23, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
:even still, she still agreed with me, as, willful or not, it still didn't follow orders. Again, I suggest you take the complaint to Kenji Girl, as she was the one who agreed with my views and put the thing in. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 23:25, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
::So what? We have proof that Psyduck didn't "disobey". And Kenji-girl probably didn't know the exact meaning of the word. (I didn't until I looked it up) [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 23:31, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

== Look ==

No matter how you twist it, it's still speculation. I've protected the talk page for now so it doesn't suffer anymore clutter. Now find something useful to do besides arguing with everyone. No one agrees with you. It's speculation. You can't compare speculation to fandom and fansite articles. So knock it off already. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 02:25, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
:Even IF everyone agreed with me, it's still speculation. And besides, Wikis ALSO have a code where they DON'T allow Fanwank on them. Also, Pokeshipping is still speculation, which means it shouldn't even exist on Bulbapedia. Besides, how is that confirmation from Hidaka not speculation. Heck, if I made something up in regards to my company and what we were doing, REGARDLESS if I was a CEO or not, I'm still speculating. This only proves that you don't know what speculation is, or even if you did, you're too arrogant to actually see it. I mean, heck, even you yourself bring in speculation into articles, should you be removed due to that? [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 02:31, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

:P.S. Another thing, seeing how WPM has actually BEEN with him, AND has had actual experience with the interview, it's NOT speculation. I mean, in order for it to be speculation on WPM's part, he has to not have been there, and only have heard of it. Even IF it were actually speculation, by that logic, seeing how the writers make mistakes in their judgement most of the time, even someone who works for the Pokemon Company/Gamefaqs is speculating, seeing how even they themselves don't know what's truly in store. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 02:36, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

::Why do I even waste time talking to you?
:#Shipping has its own space. We warn that it contains speculation.
:#If Hidaka actually confirmed something by speaking, such as the reason why Tracey replaced Brock, than it's not speculation. If he has a weird reaction to a question and you assume its because he's not allowed to speak of Platinum, than it is speculation. I don't care how much experience WPM has with interviewing people. He's not psychic. His thoughts are not confirmation.
:#I know what speculation is. You apparently can't tell the difference between fanon and speculation.
:#What speculation do I bring? Please show me. Not counting Shipping of course. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 02:42, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

::What are you talking about? I wasn't saying that he wasn't allowed to speak of Platinum. I was saying he didn't know about platinum. If anyone was actually saying he was not allowed to talk about Platinum, it was J-J-M. Stop crediting/blaming things on me that I didn't even do!
::And I don't care if Hidaka WAS the original director or not, What he says still counts as speculation, because he doesn't have absolute knowledge of the franchise.
::As for things like... your speculations, other than the Shipping part, you've speculated on comparisons between sonic characters and pokemon characters. Personally, I don't see why Shipping shouldn't count. I mean, if it's speculation, it's speculation, and if the rules absolutely forebade speculation, then Shipping articles shouldn't exist, period, no matter what your stance on them is. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 02:55, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
:::LOL that's what you're talking about? Those comparisons are on my USERPAGE. Userpages are NOT part of the mainspace. Neither is Shipping. Masamitsu Hidaka IS on the mainspace. Now I get it. You clearly don't know the difference between userpages and mainpages. Hey if you want to mention your speculation on whether he knew of Platinum or not, put it on your userpage. That would be acceptable. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 03:03, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
:::@Weedle-SHIPPING HAS ITS OWN SPACE. HOW MANY TIMES DOES SHE HAVE TO TELL YOU THAT? ''IT'S NOT IN THE MAINSPACE. NEITHER ARE USERSPACES''. AND TAKE AN ENGLISH CLASS! WITH ALL THOSE GRAMMATICAL MISTAKES, NO WONDER EVERYONE HATES YOU! DAMMIT FIND SOMETHING MORE CONSTRUCTIVE TO DO THAN F***ING ARGUING WITH EVERYONE, YOU...
@KG-What userpage? He doesn't even have one. [[User:Alpha Totodile|'''Alpha''']] [[User talk:Alpha Totodile|'''Totodile''']]
::::Now now, everyone, let's respect the {{bp|code of conduct|COC}}. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 00:38, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

== éééééééééééé ==

Use the '''é'''. It's Pokémon, not Pokemon. It's right there on the character palette begging to be clicked. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 00:23, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
:Remember this. I see you don't still use the é. By not using it, you cause extra work to other people correcting your grammar. Also, "dub" and "original" are not proper nouns. '''UltimateSephiroth''' ([[User:UltimateSephiroth|about me]] · [[User talk:UltimateSephiroth|chat]] · [[Special:Contributions/UltimateSephiroth|edits]]) 21:42, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

== Your grammar ==

is absolutely horrendous. The amount of times people have had to point out your grammar mistakes--the spelling of Pokémon, the difference between it's and its, and random capitalization--is absolutely ridiculous. I speak on behalf of all of the community here at Bulbapedia: it's time for you to actually heed warnings and make improvements. If any of us don't see any honest improvement with your edits, it will become a punishable offense. You must learn the rules of grammar--because the lack of proper grammar makes this site seem like it is run by a bunch of ten-year olds. ''[[User:Maverick Nate|'''Maverick''']][[User talk:Maverick Nate|'''Nate''']]'' 15:04, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

== Reverting ==

If an edit of yours is reverted, it's a bad idea to go back and undo it. If you really feel that strongly about your edits, discuss it on the talk page. Don't get into an edit war. --[[User:PAK Man|PAK Man]] [[User talk:PAK Man|Talk]] 16:24, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
:I discussed it on DP049 with other users. In fact, it happened long before the League was even planned out. But just in case, I made a response on [[Talk:DP049]], where we did have this discussion. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 16:32, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

== Norman ==

Can you tell me where Norman actually says he is supposed to be the third Gym Leader faced? In the games and in the anime, he winds up fifth in each case, and IIRC his only reference to three (see my edit to [[Badge]]) is in AG003 saying three Pokémon are needed. If he does say he's supposed to be third, I'd like to know where because I've never seen that. If my understanding is correct, Hoenn is therefore handled by Ash and his friends like all regions before it (Norman came fifth because they were "near Petalburg" again, which doesn't make sense in the games; convenience, I guess, in the anime), and Norman's Gym requirements are the only thing that stopped him challenging there first. [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 15:52, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
:That might have been a mistake (claiming he was actually supposed to be the third gym leader, I mean). But Norman DOES state in the ending of the episode that Ash was supposed to actually challenge him later on, and then points to Rustboro as being the first gym Ash should face. That would imply that there was indeed supposed to be a specific order trainers were supposed to face the gyms, at least in Hoenn. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 15:58, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
::[https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=R3vMoSgzBIM#t=1166 Here's the episode.] I set it to start at the beginning of the final segment, but you can watch it in full if you'd like. Norman NEVER said he should be challenged later on. If you can show me where he says it, then that's fine, I just don't see what you say proven in the anime. [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 16:07, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
:::This is from the summary of the episode on this website: "Later back in front of Norman's Gym, Norman explains that he's actually a Gym Leader Ash is supposed to fight later on. The first Gym he should try is the one in Rustboro City" This is right near the end. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 16:07, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
::::I'll visit there, then. Here are Norman's lines from the ending:
::::*"Your brother does know a lot about Pokémon and just might be a big help to you."
::::*"Ash, would it be too much of a bother if Max traveled along with you and May?"
::::*"I have a little something to give the both of you: a badge case to hold your winning Gym badges." (A grammar error here, too.)
::::*"And son, this is for you."
::::*"With one of those, you'll always know exactly where you are."
::::*"I suggest that you first travel to the closest Gym from here, and that's located in Rustboro City."
::::*"You do your best!"
::::Nothing about being faced later, so I'll go edit that article too. Thanks for the tip. [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 16:16, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
Never mind, that's another Website. I think I've proven that the other Website is not reliable. Do you have a link? [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 16:17, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
:Never mind again, I've edited [[AG003]]. [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 16:20, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

== Blocked ==

Weedle, you have been blocked for a duration of seven days for your edit war on [[Mewtwo Returns]]. You are well aware that edit warring is not permitted on Bulbapedia, and that the proper course of dispute resolution is to use the article's talk page to discuss the changes in dispute. Take this time to re-familiarize yourself with Bulbapedia policy. Thank you, - [[User:Kogoro|'''Kogoro''']] '''-''' [[User talk:Kogoro|'''Talk to me''']] - 22:14, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

== Pocket Monsters: The Animation ==

Can you refer to it as ''[[Pocket Monsters: The Animation]]'' so that it shows up on the wanted pages and shows that it needs to be created? Also, do you personally have a copy of the book? --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 02:04, 20 September 2015 (UTC)
:Sure thing, I'll do that in my next edit. Also, I don't personally have a copy of the book, but I do know someone who does: http://cindysuke.tumblr.com/post/34817930237/the-facts-about-pokemon-world-lol [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 02:06, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

== The Preview Button ==
Instead of editing a page several times in a row, try using the preview button to make sure your edit looks the way you want it to. It's right next to the Save Page button. Please try it out, so as not to clog up the Recent Changes. Also, if you want to edit multiple sections of the page, make sure that you click "edit this page" at the top of the page rather than editing it by section. Thanks! --'''—★[[User:Reshii|レシイラム]]''''''[[User talk:Reshii|talk]]''' 11:16, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

== TV Ratings ==

Do you have a source for that? If you do, then state the source. Don't make other users guess and think that it's BS. If the source is Dogasu, then state that you got it from Dogasu. You have been here longer the I have to know that you should always source your information.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 04:35, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

== Serebii ==

Hi! I just want to make sure you know that we cannot take any information from Serebii as it appears you have done for [[Special:Diff/2462919|this Simisear information]]. If you see something on Serebii, make sure you can source it elsewhere first, and even then make doubly and ''triply'' sure that whatever you end up writing here still does not end up copying Serebii. Again, we ''cannot'' take things from Serebii. I hope you understand. =) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 23:21, 25 June 2016 (UTC)
:[[Special:Diff/2500010|This]]... Just to hammer this home: '''''NOTHING''''' is ever to be taken from Serebii, '''''period'''''.
:So, tell me... What is your source regarding XY137? Is it just Serebii? [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 15:05, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
::Serebii made it pretty clear that it came from Newtype Magazine. Here's what it had to say of the episode:
::"'''The Newtype magazine in Japan has revealed another new episode title, this time for the fourty-fourth episodes of Pokémon XY & Z.''' These episodes is set to air on October 6th, following another week break on September 29th. This episode features Clemont helping rebuild Lumiose City Gym after the Team Flare attack.
Episode 940: We Start at Zero! Clemont's Decision!!"
::If that doesn't qualify as a source besides Serebii, I don't know what does. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 15:20, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
:::I'm honestly just disappointed, Weedle. You have been here for a good amount of years and are still making the most simplest of mistakes. Serebii does not qualify for a source, regardless of what he says. He doesn't even post an image of the magazine scan, so no, it's not clear it came from a magazine scan. Saying something does not immediately make something true if you don't show the evidence.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 15:28, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
::::Given your comment [[Special:Diff/2499984|here]], I was also curious where you got "はじまりはゼロ！シトロンの決断！"? [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 15:31, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
:::::I got it here: http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/XY137 [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 16:53, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
::::::Pokemon Wikia isn't a credible source either, because they could add that title just like you could add it here. It isn't an official website. Once there's a picture for the title, it will be posted. [[User:Playerking95|Playerking95]] ([[User talk:Playerking95|talk]]) 16:58, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
:::::::In short, keep in mind that these things should always be ''verifiable''. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 17:02, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

I'd like to add, if your only source for English translations of new episode titles is Serebii, please don't try to use that (even changed a bit) to add the episodes here. That's still basically copying Serebii. Just leave it until someone else can make an independent translation. At worst, post the sources somewhere and let someone else create the episodes with independent translations. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 17:07, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

== PokeSpe reference ==

You are not right by saying that the implication of Silver being Giovanni's son in FR/LG and the subsequent confirmation of this fact in HG/SS is a PokeSpe reference in the games. It was the games that first mentioned the fact. PokeSpe decided to make Silver Giovanni's son only in FR/LG Chapter, which was after the release of FireRed and LeafGreen. So, it is the manga that referenced the game, not the other way 'round. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 16:14, 24 August 2016 (UTC)

== New episode pages ==

When creating a new episode page, please use the {{template|New episode}} template. Otherwise, you get copy/paste errors like with what you did for [[XY138]] and [[XY139]]. Thank you. --[[User:Carmenstar97|Carmen★]] ''[[User talk:Carmenstar97|(Talk |]] [[Special:Contributions/Carmenstar97|contribs)]]'' 13:33, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

== Linking moves ==

Whenever you're linking to a move article, it's important to use the <nowiki>{{m}}</nowiki> template, as shown, to avoid using redirects. For example, <nowiki>{{m|Dark Void}}</nowiki> is the correct usage, not <nowiki>[[Dark Void]]</nowiki>. Just so you know. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 00:16, 30 September 2018 (UTC)

== English Celebi ==

Are you playing a game set to the Japanese language or a system and game from the Japanese region? I have doubts about Celebi having English text for the Japanese region. '''[[User:Lady Ariel|Lady]] [[User talk:Lady Ariel|Ariel]]''' 02:00, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
:I'm playing an English game set to the English language and I downloaded the game from the Nintendo eShop channel on the English Nintendo 3DS. Nothing Japanese at all regarding the game (well, aside from it in general was originally made in Japan, I mean.). I also managed to [https://otnesse.tumblr.com/post/179272822979/proof-that-the-wondercard-description-is-in photograph] it as well. Sorry for it being low quality, but I'm not sure how to get it directly from the game a'la Serebii.net. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 10:01, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
:EDIT: Sorry, now I see what was going on. Shouldn't have done that, dang it. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 10:03, 21 October 2018 (UTC)

== Link templates ==

Hey! I'm going to have to encourage you to read the site's {{bp|list of link templates}} again. Using <nowiki>{{an|Rotom Pokédex}}</nowiki> or simply <nowiki>{{Rotom}}</nowiki> is highly encouraged, not <nowiki>[[Rotom Pokédex (anime)|Rotom]]</nowiki>. Thank you. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 20:24, 6 October 2019 (UTC)

== Using Serebii as a source ==

Once again, you are using Serebii as a source when you know full well that he is not a valid source. It doesn't matter if he's right, just do no use his site as your source. Period. Your source should be the official Japanese site, not someone repeating what the Japanese site is saying.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 13:49, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

== "Advantage" ==

While I acknowlege some of your Team Rocket vs. Caterpie argument, "advantage" doesn't mean that Ash was guaranteed to beat Misty; it simply means that he was objectively in a favorable situation prior to the battle being interrupted (and since this was acknowledged by both Trainers, it's not simply speculation). I decided to rewrite that particular part entirely anyway, but I just wanted to clarify that. In the future, please try to use the talk page instead of edit warring (although I admittedly shouldn't have made that last revert either, so I apologize for that).

Additionally, I never claimed that you were being biased: I actually think you removing the previous wording of "about to win the battle" was the right decision, hence why I decided to try slightly rewording it instead. However, if you're going to say things like "regardless of my views on Misty", "even IF I believed Ash was owed a genuine win", and "my own personal views on the match were irrelevant"... of course I'm going to begin to question if you're truly attempting to be impartial here (especially given your history of Misty-related edits over the past 15 years). [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 10:18, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

:Fine, I'll grant you that much regarding your points, and that your wording was better. Though to be fair, Caterpie was also in extremely low health at that time as well thanks to its earlier near-death against Pidgeotto and... well, you know the rest of that battle and how it turned out for everyone involved (and it was also fairly explicit that it was weak even before the fight against Pidgeotto, much less Team Rocket. After Ash's attempt at capturing Pidgeotto outright without weakening it first just resulted in it escaping easily, Misty reminded him that he needed to battle it first, and also specifically stated the only reason Caterpie got easily captured without a fight was because it was already weak beforehand). I might be fanatically loyal to Misty, I'll admit that much, but I still would have avoided using "advantage" even if I had the exact opposite emotional views of Misty (and in fact, back when I was still on Bulbagarden and the discussion popped up whether Ash or Misty would have won, I gave pretty firm arguments why it wasn't necessarily confirmed Ash was going to win, and made it very clear that my being a Misty fan had absolutely nothing to do with my rationale, and that if anything my rationale actually was tied far more to something that happened with Ash than it ever did with Misty and then cited that particular battle. Granted, PDL pretty much mocked my argument when I cited that battle, but still...). Yes, it's true that Starmie was explicitly low on health, but it's also true that it was still close enough to the water's edge that it merely needed to hop back in and regenerate, though it might need a bit more effort to pull it off. And I mostly had to mention that stuff repeatedly in case someone DID try to accuse me of being biased towards Misty due to past experiences on Serebii, Pokecommunity, and BMGf where they did repeatedly do that. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 02:50, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
::A bit late on this one to reply (eh, still less than 6 months), but your talk page comment for Misty's Starmie (which I replied to, but I figured it would be appropriate to go into a bit more detail here) got me to rewatch EP007 in both Japanese and English, and I believe you misremembered Staryu's situation. What Staryu was actually doing when it dived into the water was negating the usage of Stun Spore and Sleep Powder (kind of similar to Natural Cure, but with water rather than switching out), not healing itself, so the argument that Starmie could still regenerate itself in the water doesn't really hold up. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 22:46, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
:::I didn't actually mention Staryu at all in that argument (my main focus was Starmie, and if anything I didn't even CONSIDER Staryu's earlier dive into the water to alleviate itself of Stun Spore.), and for the record, Starmie's core wasn't even damaged (ie, it didn't crack. The blinking light simply meant it was low on health), which is the only way it won't be able to heal at all barring maybe a Pokemon Center. And even if we were to somehow use that rationale for how it doesn't hold up, Bye Bye Butterfree made it very explicit that Starmie (and presumably Staryu) most certainly can heal itself (and by that, I specifically mean heal its HP back upwards, not simply negating a status effect) when exposed to water, at least as long as its core was intact (there was a scene during Ash, Misty and Brock's confrontation with Team Rocket over the poached Butterfree where James used a sledgehammer on Starmie, landed a direct hit on it and sent it flying into a wall, causing it to slump down in a similar manner to its situation in Waterflowers of Cerulean City, then Misty grabbed a water cannon (presumably from within Team Rocket's hideout) and proceeded to spray a torrent on it, and then it came right back to full strength). And that's not even getting into how Starmie's Pokedex entries back then make it explicit that it can regenerate as long as its core remains intact. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 09:36, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
::::"''I didn't actually mention Staryu at all in that argument (my main focus was Starmie, and if anything I didn't even CONSIDER Staryu's earlier dive into the water to alleviate itself of Stun Spore.)''"
::::You may not have mentioned Staryu, but [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=EP007&diff=3592528&oldid=3592393 you stated here that Starmie could recover by jumping into the pool], which is what Staryu did earlier to negate Stun Spore/Sleep Powder, so I don't feel like it was unreasonable for me to assume that you used Staryu as a basis for that. If that's not the case, then I apologize.
::::"''For the record, Starmie's core wasn't even damaged (ie, it didn't crack. The blinking light simply meant it was low on health), which is the only way it won't be able to heal at all barring maybe a Pokemon Center.''"
::::I'm pretty sure my stance from the very beginning was simply that Starmie was in an objectively disadvantageous position. I never mentioned anything about its core cracking.
::::"''And even if we were to somehow use that rationale for how it doesn't hold up, Bye Bye Butterfree made it very explicit that Starmie (and presumably Staryu) most certainly can heal itself (and by that, I specifically mean heal its HP back upwards, not simply negating a status effect) when exposed to water, at least as long as its core was intact (there was a scene during Ash, Misty and Brock's confrontation with Team Rocket over the poached Butterfree where James used a sledgehammer on Starmie, landed a direct hit on it and sent it flying into a wall, causing it to slump down in a similar manner to its situation in Waterflowers of Cerulean City, then Misty grabbed a water cannon (presumably from within Team Rocket's hideout) and proceeded to spray a torrent on it, and then it came right back to full strength).''"
::::Bit of a sidenote, but it was Jessie that used the sledgehammer. As for the rest: I mentioned this on the talk page for Misty's Starmie as well, but I don't think using future episodes is the greatest counterargument. There are many instances of Pokémon displaying a certain trait for the sake of the progression of the episode, only for it to never be used again (which I'm pretty sure is also what happened here as well).
::::"''And that's not even getting into how Starmie's Pokedex entries back then make it explicit that it can regenerate as long as its core remains intact.''"
::::Those are Staryu's Pokédex entries you're thinking of, which is specifically for lost appendages rather than fully healing itself.
::::My main issue with your argument is that it's built too much on theoretical scenarios rather than what was actually presented within the episode itself. Sure, it's true that Starmie didn't "lose", but I never claimed that it did. I only stated that it was in an disadvantageous situation, which was acknowledged within the episode itself.
::::Also, you mentioned earlier that people have called you biased on Serebii, PokeCommunity, and the Bulbagarden forums. I only say this to try to offer some constructive criticism, but if there are three separate communities saying the same thing, I fear that there may be some truth within their words. If your initial talk page post on Misty's Starmie had been something like "Misty didn't really lose since the battle was interrupted, but I agree that it needs to be rewritten", I would completely understand. Instead, your post contained a fairly lengthy paragraph about the exact circumstances of the battle, theoretical ways in which the battle could have progressed, and a comparison to a separate episode. I feel like that's a bit much considering Temari44 only mentioned the Gym battle in a small part of their post. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 11:55, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
:::::"''You may not have mentioned Staryu, but [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=EP007&diff=3592528&oldid=3592393 you stated here that Starmie could recover by jumping into the pool], which is what Staryu did earlier to negate Stun Spore/Sleep Powder, so I don't feel like it was unreasonable for me to assume that you used Staryu as a basis for that. If that's not the case, then I apologize.''"
:::::I guess you could say Staryu might have been a factor, but even without Staryu, the episode Bye Bye Butterfree already made clear it can fully heal from being exposed to water. And that's not even getting into how Generation III later had Staryu and Starmie have an ability to outright heal from water type attacks (and it wouldn't be the first time they did abilities for Pokemon based on an earlier episode. See Rhydon and it having Lightning Rod as an ability in a direct reference to the infamous Aim for the Horn situation during Blaine's Gym Battle).
:::::"''I'm pretty sure my stance from the very beginning was simply that Starmie was in an objectively disadvantageous position. I never mentioned anything about its core cracking.''"
:::::It still would have been a definite factor in whether or not Starmie would have been in a disadvantageous situation or not (and I define "disadvantageous" as "absolutely no way to get out of trouble", not "small chance of getting out of trouble" but "literally 0% chance"). The only time where being exposed to water DIDN'T heal it was during the battle against Giselle when it was knocked into the pool (which, BTW, the person specifically referenced and I even agreed with him), and even there it was explicitly shown that Starmie's core had been smashed beforehand (which actually backs up its Pokedex entry if anything). If they wanted to actually indicate Misty was inevitably going to lose, they should have made sure to have Starmie's core explicitly crack from impact and then flash to imply that the core was damaged and thus cannot heal. And I realize full well they acknowledged it was that, but that unfortunately isn't enough since I've seen plenty of instances where they outright state an opponent is at a disadvantage with the person winning attempting to press the attack, only for the winning individual to end up defeated at the last second (like Tealc's fight against that fake Jaffah rebel leader for example, or to keep it contained to Pokemon like how Caterpie defeated Jessie and James, heck, how Ash turned the tide against Jessie during his Viridian Gym Match), or otherwise it being made clear afterwards that they weren't in any danger and just trying to increase drama [the latter bit I'm specifically thinking of how Gotenks in an attempt at staging a dramatic finish exaggerated how Super Buu is cleaning his clock, only for Piccolo to take it seriously and seal the Hyperbolic Time Chamber and it then being revealed after the fact that Gotenks was actually bluffing about losing meaning Piccolo blew up the entrance for nothing].). I would have said the same thing if it were Ash and Pidgeotto in their shoes (well, okay, maybe not quite to that level since unlike Starmie, Pidgeotto doesn't heal from absorbing water).
:::::"''Bit of a sidenote, but it was Jessie that used the sledgehammer. As for the rest: I mentioned this on the talk page for Misty's Starmie as well, but I don't think using future episodes is the greatest counterargument. There are many instances of Pokémon displaying a certain trait for the sake of the progression of the episode, only for it to never be used again (which I'm pretty sure is also what happened here as well).''"
:::::Fine, I stand corrected regarding who used the sledgehammer, but my point still stands. And for the record, what you used as a counterargument is a very bad argument in itself, since I can easily use that exact argument to just shut down the wiki altogether and delete all articles precisely BECAUSE they do progression and never bring it up again, thus can't qualify as facts, thus can't allow for an encyclopedia or even summaries (I'm an all or nothing kind of guy). Either way, the fact that Staryu and Starmie later on got Water Absorb would indicate they thought specifically of that scene when deciding on those abilities for them (similar to Rhydon having Lightning Rod), so more likely than not it has that ability. Heck, Misty's Starmie's article even specifically noted that it carried at the very least a similar ability to Water Absorb and cited that particular scene.
:::::"''Those are Staryu's Pokédex entries you're thinking of, which is specifically for lost appendages rather than fully healing itself.''"
:::::Being the evolved form of Staryu, I'm pretty sure Starmie probably retained that ability. Heck, its article even indicated it had regenerative abilities as well.
:::::"''My main issue with your argument is that it's built too much on theoretical scenarios rather than what was actually presented within the episode itself. Sure, it's true that Starmie didn't "lose", but I never claimed that it did. I only stated that it was in an disadvantageous situation, which was acknowledged within the episode itself.''"
:::::As I stated above, the problem is that there have been plenty of instances where they stated they were in a disadvantageous situation in an episode or even a game (both inside the Pokemon anime and even in other franchises), yet the person at a disadvantage outright prevailed against the superior opponent, so that unfortunately isn't even enough to acknowledge that bit (as when I think of disadvantageous situations, I specifically have in mind instances where there's no way to get out of trouble, and by "no way" I mean literally 0% chance of survivability, let alone prevailing.). That's why I still think the situation was very ambiguous ESPECIALLY given Starmie's later being revealed to have a similar ability to Water Absorb during the events of Bye Bye Butterfree. Heck, if anything, Ash's Caterpie came far closer to actually BEING in an explicit disadvantageous situation when he fought Ekans, Koffing, and Meowth due to having the entire deck stacked against him (aside from the illegal at the time 2-on-1 match that Team Rocket forced Ash into, their Ekans and Koffing had significantly more experience than it, plus the fact that both were Poison-types, which gave them a type advantage over his bug-type status, and they had even managed to easily take out Ash's Pidgeotto, who at that time nearly made Caterpie its lunch thanks largely to Ash's stupidity earlier, and that's not even getting into how it was close to fainting by that point thanks to that earlier battle, and even without the Pidgeotto battle was weak enough that Ash didn't even need to battle it just to capture it. Note that I said "came far closer to", not actually WAS a disadvantageous situation, because ultimately Caterpie prevailed).
:::::"''Also, you mentioned earlier that people have called you biased on Serebii, PokeCommunity, and the Bulbagarden forums. I only say this to try to offer some constructive criticism, but if there are three separate communities saying the same thing, I fear that there may be some truth within their words. If your initial talk page post on Misty's Starmie had been something like "Misty didn't really lose since the battle was interrupted, but I agree that it needs to be rewritten", I would completely understand. Instead, your post contained a fairly lengthy paragraph about the exact circumstances of the battle, theoretical ways in which the battle could have progressed, and a comparison to a separate episode. I feel like that's a bit much considering Temari44 only mentioned the Gym battle in a small part of their post.''"
:::::Hey, I tend to get very detailed in my replies. It's basically a quirk of mine due to both my aspergers and also my parents specifically demanding I get more detailed in my answers rather than saying "just because", "I felt like it", or even going extremely general about who "they" are when I say "people". As far as that big about Bulbapedia, Pokecommunity, and Serebii.net, usually it's just the same people who happen to be members of all three sites, and either way, just because three entities claim something doesn't necessarily make it true. Just ask the coverage about the Vietnam War by the major networks. All showed the worst aspects about Vietnam, yet it eventually came to light that all of them, especially the so-called "most trusted man in America" Walter Cronkite, were extremely biased against the war and in Cronkite's case may have even up and out lied through his teeth during the Tet offensive. A similar story can be shown with the Trayvon Martin case. And I only replied in that sense because he specifically said that Misty lost that battle (and I wasn't even disagreeing with his overall argument that Misty's Starmie was weak. If anything, I fully agreed with his argument, including its loss against Giselle's Graveler, and only had a minor quibble with Misty's Starmie being stated to have lost the Cerulean Gym battle, and that's only because there was literally nothing to suggest it lost before Team Rocket interfered.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 21:36, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
::::::"''I guess you could say Staryu might have been a factor, but even without Staryu, the episode Bye Bye Butterfree already made clear it can fully heal from being exposed to water. And that's not even getting into how Generation III later had Staryu and Starmie have an ability to outright heal from water type attacks (and it wouldn't be the first time they did abilities for Pokemon based on an earlier episode. See Rhydon and it having Lightning Rod as an ability in a direct reference to the infamous Aim for the Horn situation during Blaine's Gym Battle).''"
::::::Neither Staryu nor Starmie have Water Absorb as a possible Ability.
::::::"''It still would have been a definite factor in whether or not Starmie would have been in a disadvantageous situation or not (and I define "disadvantageous" as "absolutely no way to get out of trouble", not "small chance of getting out of trouble" but "literally 0% chance").''"
::::::The definition of disadvantage is "an unfavorable circumstance or condition that reduces the chances of success or effectiveness"; it does ''not'' mean "0% chance of prevailing". Misty's Starmie was explicitly stated to be low on energy (but not actually knocked out), which means it was at a disadvantage.
::::::"''The only time where being exposed to water DIDN'T heal it was during the battle against Giselle when it was knocked into the pool (which, BTW, the person specifically referenced and I even agreed with him), and even there it was explicitly shown that Starmie's core had been smashed beforehand (which actually backs up its Pokedex entry if anything).''"
::::::I'm fairly sure that this "water healing" attribute was only ever displayed once in EP021. I don't think it makes a lot of sense to say "the only time where being exposed to water DIDN'T heal it" when it only happened ''once''.
::::::"''If they wanted to actually indicate Misty was inevitably going to lose, they should have made sure to have Starmie's core explicitly crack from impact and then flash to imply that the core was damaged and thus cannot heal. And I realize full well they acknowledged it was that, but that unfortunately isn't enough since I've seen plenty of instances where they outright state an opponent is at a disadvantage with the person winning attempting to press the attack, only for the winning individual to end up defeated at the last second (like Tealc's fight against that fake Jaffah rebel leader for example, or to keep it contained to Pokemon like how Caterpie defeated Jessie and James, heck, how Ash turned the tide against Jessie during his Viridian Gym Match), or otherwise it being made clear afterwards that they weren't in any danger and just trying to increase drama [the latter bit I'm specifically thinking of how Gotenks in an attempt at staging a dramatic finish exaggerated how Super Buu is cleaning his clock, only for Piccolo to take it seriously and seal the Hyperbolic Time Chamber and it then being revealed after the fact that Gotenks was actually bluffing about losing meaning Piccolo blew up the entrance for nothing].). I would have said the same thing if it were Ash and Pidgeotto in their shoes (well, okay, maybe not quite to that level since unlike Starmie, Pidgeotto doesn't heal from absorbing water).''"
::::::Again, a disadvantage is not an unwinnable situation. I also don't think the Gotenks situation is comparable since it was made clear to the readers/viewers that he was faking it even before Piccolo destroyed the door (and truth be told, Gotenks ultimately ''did'' fail to beat Super Buu because he's an idiot and refused to actually take the fight seriously until much later). [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 22:59, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
::::::"''Fine, I stand corrected regarding who used the sledgehammer, but my point still stands. And for the record, what you used as a counterargument is a very bad argument in itself, since I can easily use that exact argument to just shut down the wiki altogether and delete all articles precisely BECAUSE they do progression and never bring it up again, thus can't qualify as facts, thus can't allow for an encyclopedia or even summaries (I'm an all or nothing kind of guy).''"
::::::I'm sorry, but I feel like this is a huge stretch. My argument is based on information specifically presented in the episode itself, while yours is theorizing on how Misty could still make a comeback based on information ''not'' presented in the episode. I don't see how Starmie displaying a one-time attribute of being rejuvenated from a water blast in a later episode should be used as an argument for the Gym battle; Misty never said anything like "If I can just get Starmie into the water, I still have a chance".
::::::"''Either way, the fact that Staryu and Starmie later on got Water Absorb would indicate they thought specifically of that scene when deciding on those abilities for them (similar to Rhydon having Lightning Rod), so more likely than not it has that ability. Heck, Misty's Starmie's article even specifically noted that it carried at the very least a similar ability to Water Absorb and cited that particular scene.''""
::::::Just to reiterate: '''Neither Staryu nor Starmie have Water Absorb as a possible Ability'''. Their regular abilities are Illuminate and Natural Cure, along with gaining Analytic as a Hidden Ability starting with Gen V.
::::::"''Being the evolved form of Staryu, I'm pretty sure Starmie probably retained that ability. Heck, its article even indicated it had regenerative abilities as well.''"
::::::Again, this is used in the context of lost body parts. It's certainly not something like an immediate healing factor.
::::::"''As I stated above, the problem is that there have been plenty of instances where they stated they were in a disadvantageous situation in an episode or even a game (both inside the Pokemon anime and even in other franchises), yet the person at a disadvantage outright prevailed against the superior opponent, so that unfortunately isn't even enough to acknowledge that bit (as when I think of disadvantageous situations, I specifically have in mind instances where there's no way to get out of trouble, and by "no way" I mean literally 0% chance of survivability, let alone prevailing.). That's why I still think the situation was very ambiguous ESPECIALLY given Starmie's later being revealed to have a similar ability to Water Absorb during the events of Bye Bye Butterfree. Heck, if anything, Ash's Caterpie came far closer to actually BEING in an explicit disadvantageous situation when he fought Ekans, Koffing, and Meowth due to having the entire deck stacked against him (aside from the illegal at the time 2-on-1 match that Team Rocket forced Ash into, their Ekans and Koffing had significantly more experience than it, plus the fact that both were Poison-types, which gave them a type advantage over his bug-type status, and they had even managed to easily take out Ash's Pidgeotto, who at that time nearly made Caterpie its lunch thanks largely to Ash's stupidity earlier, and that's not even getting into how it was close to fainting by that point thanks to that earlier battle, and even without the Pidgeotto battle was weak enough that Ash didn't even need to battle it just to capture it. Note that I said "came far closer to", not actually WAS a disadvantageous situation, because ultimately Caterpie prevailed).''"
::::::Again, a disadvantage is not an unwinnable situation, just a situation that is harder to win from. There's nothing wrong with saying that Starmie was at a disadvantage, since that's what was displayed and stated within the episode itself.
::::::"''Hey, I tend to get very detailed in my replies. It's basically a quirk of mine due to both my aspergers and also my parents specifically demanding I get more detailed in my answers rather than saying "just because", "I felt like it", or even going extremely general about who "they" are when I say "people". As far as that big about Bulbapedia, Pokecommunity, and Serebii.net, usually it's just the same people who happen to be members of all three sites, and either way, just because three entities claim something doesn't necessarily make it true. '''Just ask the coverage about the Vietnam War by the major networks. All showed the worst aspects about Vietnam, yet it eventually came to light that all of them, especially the so-called "most trusted man in America" Walter Cronkite, were extremely biased against the war and in Cronkite's case may have even up and out lied through his teeth during the Tet offensive. A similar story can be shown with the Trayvon Martin case.'''''"
::::::This is an ''extreme'' comparison. One person's conduct on the Internet in regards to a fictional character from an anime is not at all equivalent to '''war or murder'''. At the very least, it's undeniable that a lot of conflict that you've run into on these sites are related to Misty (honestly, I can just look at earlier posts on this very talk page even before this particular discussion started). It's one thing to claim that you're not being biased and another to actually showcase that you're not being biased. You even admitted earlier that you're "fanatically loyal to Misty". [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 22:59, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
:::::::If I were to be biased regarding Misty, I'd have rewritten every loss she had to be eradicated and thus indicated she never lost (either that, or if I genuinely hated Misty, rewrite everything to outright EXAGGERATE her loss ratio to imply she has a similarly bad track record to Team Rocket). Not only did I not do that, I actually agreed with the guy who tried to defend Starmie's overall track record that the Giselle bit WAS indeed a loss (a story-required loss, yes, but a loss nonetheless, and if I agreed that the Giselle bit was a loss, that is indeed showcasing I'm NOT biased. Someone who truly IS biased towards Misty in terms of liking her would never agree to her having a single loss at all). No, I'm not being biased, even if I do have fanatical loyalty to Misty (someone who's truly biased would literally rewrite the entire wiki to either avoid listing any, and I do mean literally ANY flaws she might have, or exaggerate her flaws to such a degree that they come across as the absolute worst person to ever live). Heck, I have an absolute hatred of May and to a lesser extent Dawn, yet you don't see me editing their articles to paint them in the absolute worst light imaginable (which WOULD be the very definition of bias, BTW). If anything, I AM attempting to be VERY objective in my edits especially regarding Misty. Also, a huge amount of stuff on here literally only happened in single episodes, or so few episodes that they barely even matter, yet they're still noted as actually having happened as if they had any importance, so that's far from a rebuttal regarding whether or not Starmie could indeed heal from it (and once is more than enough to indicate it would happen). I might as well also point out that I focus on the connections between generalities and details, so I DON'T limit myself to whether it's demonstrated in a single episode or not. Otherwise, Ash's Ho-Oh connection is meaningless since they never bring it up since the beginning of DP, and his Aura abilities also only showed up a few times in DP. And I do agree ultimately Misty's Starmie was weakened, but we have no conclusive proof that it would have lost, period, hence why I tried to rewrite it the way I did earlier as that's the only actual way to write it. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 02:13, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
::::::::Everything that you're describing is simply bias taken to the logical extreme (i.e. to the point of being completely unreasonable), which is an exaggeration and doesn't actually disprove whether or not you're partial to Misty (which I think is fairly obvious at this point). Again, what's important in this instance is the info presented in the episode itself, which is less speculatory than thinking of ways that Misty "could" win or not. Again, I never said she actually lost. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 03:27, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

== Pokémon ==

When writing "Pokémon" or "Poké", don't forget to write the "e" as "é". Also, the word "Trainer" is capitalized. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 00:06, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

== Sensational Sisters ==

There's no indication in Japanese or English that Misty "quit" being a Gym Leader; she simply says that she left her sisters in charge of the Gym. Please don't just plainly revert me and discuss things on the talk page first. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 12:13, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
:I watched both Japanese with Subs and the English dub with Closed Captioning, and this is what she says when the topic is brought up:
:"When I saw you [Satoshi] battling, I just couldn’t sit still! So I left Hanada Gym to my sisters and set off on a journey."
:"After watching your [Ash's] battle, I just couldn't stay still a second longer! And so, I left the [Cerulean] Gym with my sisters in charge, and started a journey!"
:And while it's true that it doesn't use the exact word "quit" in there, it's pretty clear that's what's being implied especially when past episodes have made it clear that you can't engage in a Pokemon Journey while you're a Gym Leader (in fact, such a restraint was made explicit as early as [[EP005|Showdown at Pewter City]] from both Flint AND Brock, and I think Candace and Zoey both alluded to this restraint in that episode of Diamond and Pearl.). Besides, no one talks like that about a position they simply were on temporary leave from (I sure don't). That sounds more like the kind of talk a guy gives when he's about to quit his job for a better one. A good contrast would be her reappearance in Alola (second one) where she explicitly stated that a major part of why she went to Alola besides visiting Ash was to take a break from the swarms of Gym Challengers that were arriving. Either way, she definitely never mentioned the gym at all in JN147, much less resuming gym duties (the most we got was Brock eagerly telling Misty to say hi to her sisters for him before Croagunk toxic stabbed him), and considering most instances she either explicitly mentions she has to resume gym duties when she departs (Mirage Kingdom Arc, the Kanto, Alola arc) or otherwise its made very clear she had to resume Gym Duties (beginning of Battle Frontier where Daisy basically called Misty and threatened to hand badges out again if she didn't return, Mastermind as well since it's made explicit she was only there due to being invited alongside Oak and was most likely going to return to the Gym afterward), the fact that she makes absolutely NO mention of gym duties at all means she most likely wasn't going back to being a Gym Leader that time. Let's not forget, Brock also returned to Pewter City in the same episode, and he's repeatedly stated to no longer be a Gym Leader and thus obviously wasn't going to be resuming gym duties. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 12:29, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
::Most of what you've outlined is your own headcanon with no real proof that she quit being a Gym Leader, which you also just admitted to.
::''"I watched both Japanese with Subs and the English dub with Closed Captioning, and this is what she says when the topic is brought up:''
::''"When I saw you [Satoshi] battling, I just couldn’t sit still! So I left Hanada Gym to my sisters and set off on a journey."''
::''"After watching your [Ash's] battle, I just couldn't stay still a second longer! And so, I left the [Cerulean] Gym with my sisters in charge, and started a journey!"''
::Yes, I also watched both. Again, there's no mention of her quitting.
::"''And while it's true that it doesn't use the exact word "quit" in there, it's pretty clear that's what's being implied especially when past episodes have made it clear that you can't engage in a Pokemon Journey while you're a Gym Leader (in fact, such a restraint was made explicit as early as [[EP005|Showdown at Pewter City]] from both Flint AND Brock, and I think Candace and Zoey both alluded to this restraint in that episode of Diamond and Pearl.).''"
::I'm pretty sure that you just can't leave a Gym '''unattended''' without another Gym Leader looking after it. Brock was able to leave on a journey after leaving Pewter Gym in Flint's care (and Lt. Surge also left Vermilion Gym in Visquez's care while he went on his own journey). Both Flint and Brock were considered official Gym Leaders even as late as DPS02.
::"''Besides, no one talks like that about a position they simply were on temporary leave from (I sure don't). That sounds more like the kind of talk a guy gives when he's about to quit his job for a better one. A good contrast would be her reappearance in Alola (second one) where she explicitly stated that a major part of why she went to Alola besides visiting Ash was to take a break from the swarms of Gym Challengers that were arriving.''"
::Firstly, you can't claim that "no one talks like that about a position they simply were on temporary leave from" when plenty of people watched that episode without ever getting the impression that she "quit". Secondly, this is speculation.
::"''Either way, she definitely never mentioned the gym at all in JN147, much less resuming gym duties (the most we got was Brock eagerly telling Misty to say hi to her sisters for him before Croagunk toxic stabbed him), and considering most instances she either explicitly mentions she has to resume gym duties when she departs (Mirage Kingdom Arc, the Kanto, Alola arc) or otherwise its made very clear she had to resume Gym Duties (beginning of Battle Frontier where Daisy basically called Misty and threatened to hand badges out again if she didn't return, Mastermind as well since it's made explicit she was only there due to being invited alongside Oak and was most likely going to return to the Gym afterward), the fact that she makes absolutely NO mention of gym duties at all means she most likely wasn't going back to being a Gym Leader that time. Let's not forget, Brock also returned to Pewter City in the same episode, and he's repeatedly stated to no longer be a Gym Leader and thus obviously wasn't going to be resuming gym duties.''"
::Most of this is speculation (outside of her not mentioning resuming Gym Leader duties). However, my reworded edit didn't say that she resumed her duties, just that her sisters look after the Gym when she's away.
::I also maintain that you should not have reverted me twice before going to the talk page. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 13:16, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
:::Actually, Brock was repeatedly considered an ex-Gym Leader/Former Gym Leader by the Alola, Kanto arc (more specifically, the episode where Brock and Misty show them the ropes at Cerulean Gym regarding gym battles), which was well after the events of DPS02. I'd know, I watched it on PokemonTV when it came out with closed captioning. Even made particular note about that bit. Only Misty was specifically stated to be an actual current Gym Leader in that episode. And last I checked, Giovanni didn't explicitly make Jessie, James and Meowth Gym Leaders (they merely assumed they became Gym Leaders) and if anything his orders to them made it sound as though he specifically wanted them to guard against a possible attack on the Gym ("Use these [Pokemon] in the event of an emergency!"). And as far as Lt. Surge is concerned, quite frankly, ESPECIALLY after Brock was explicitly considered a former Gym Leader, ie, one who is no longer a gym leader at all, that means Lt. Surge isn't a gym leader by that point either (besides, Flint's not even a Gym Leader anymore, Forrest is, and most certainly was an official one by DPS02.). And the whole "unattended" issue is its own problem since, ignoring how Giovanni's apparently running Team Rocket without actually BEING at the gym prior to Battle of the Badge (afterwards, he most likely quit the position), we had Fantina being absent from the gym for a good long while, being absent TWICE, in fact, both times when Ash tried to challenge her, and didn't even get a slap on the wrist for it, much less had her gym priviledges revoked for it. And I still stand by my statement that there's no way Misty would say something like that if she wasn't quitting the position. And BTW, that stuff I described wasn't headcanon. That was evidence directly from the episode and related episodes. Want to know what ACTUAL headcanon is? Misty's parents being murdered by Team Rocket members and her nearly being killed by them as a baby, and then being adopted by the Sensational Sisters, stuff that had literally no basis whatsoever from the series and something I made up in its entirety (and yes, I actually DID write that as a fanfic). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 13:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
::::"''Actually, Brock was repeatedly considered an ex-Gym Leader/Former Gym Leader by the Alola, Kanto arc (more specifically, the episode where Brock and Misty show them the ropes at Cerulean Gym regarding gym battles), which was well after the events of DPS02. I'd know, I watched it on PokemonTV when it came out with closed captioning. Even made particular note about that bit. Only Misty was specifically stated to be an actual current Gym Leader in that episode.''"
::::None of this has any relevance to what I was talking about.
::::"''And last I checked, Giovanni didn't explicitly make Jessie, James and Meowth Gym Leaders (they merely assumed they became Gym Leaders) and if anything his orders to them made it sound as though he specifically wanted them to guard against a possible attack on the Gym ("Use these [Pokemon] in the event of an emergency!").''"
::::I never even brought up Viridian Gym since its circumstances are much different from other Gyms.
::::"''And as far as Lt. Surge is concerned, quite frankly, ESPECIALLY after Brock was explicitly considered a former Gym Leader, ie, one who is no longer a gym leader at all, that means Lt. Surge isn't a gym leader by that point either (besides, Flint's not even a Gym Leader anymore, Forrest is, and most certainly was an official one by DPS02.). And the whole "unattended" issue is its own problem since, ignoring how Giovanni's apparently running Team Rocket without actually BEING at the gym prior to Battle of the Badge (afterwards, he most likely quit the position), we had Fantina being absent from the gym for a good long while, being absent TWICE, in fact, both times when Ash tried to challenge her, and didn't even get a slap on the wrist for it, much less had her gym priviledges revoked for it.''"
::::First of all, Visquez is referred to outright as a substitute Gym Leader for Lt. Surge, meaning Lt. Surge is definitely still a Gym Leader. This leads to my second point...
::::You're quite mistaken on several things regarding the status of the Pewter Gym Leader, as well as the restrictions on Gym Leaders traveling. Brock left Pewter Gym to Flint in order to travel with Ash for a lengthy amount of time and was STILL considered an official Gym Leader by DPS02 as far as the Pokémon Inspection Agency was concerned. The Nurse Joy from said agency explicitly refused to battle Forrest at first, and would only accept a battle from Brock or Flint (meaning that Flint was ''also'' still considered an official Gym Leader). While Forrest had been conducting Gym battles prior to this, he was not the ''official'' Gym Leader since Flint never delivered the paperwork to officiate the change, and only obtained the title during the events of the episode itself.
::::Between Brock leaving Pewter Gym to Flint (again, both of them still had their titles by DPS02), Lt. Surge leaving Vermilion Gym to Visquez, and Clemont leaving Lumiose Gym to Clembot, there's no indication that Gym Leaders will lose their titles just because they decided to travel, provided that someone is running the Gym (and even then, Fantina was never penalized for being absent, as you've already mentioned). Even Misty already had the title of Gym Leader prior to the beginning of the series.
::::"''And I still stand by my statement that there's no way Misty would say something like that if she wasn't quitting the position.''"
::::Literally nothing about her dialogue indicates that she "quit". I have no idea why you're so convinced otherwise.
::::"''And BTW, that stuff I described wasn't headcanon. That was evidence directly from the episode and related episodes. Want to know what ACTUAL headcanon is? Misty's parents being murdered by Team Rocket members and her nearly being killed by them as a baby, and then being adopted by the Sensational Sisters, stuff that had literally no basis whatsoever from the series and something I made up in its entirety (and yes, I actually DID write that as a fanfic).''"
::::Your personal interpretation of events is still headcanon. I don't know what you're trying to prove here by talking about your fanfiction. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 16:29, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
:::::The first bit actually has quite a bit of relevance, since you stated Brock and Flint were both Gym Leaders, and I was pointing out that Brock WASN'T considered a Gym Leader by that episode (the Alola, Kanto Gym episode). They wouldn't repeatedly call him a "former" Gym Leader if he still was one, as former means he no longer is one in any capacity. And yes, they repeatedly stated "Former Gym Leader" in reference to Brock twice, I think three times tops in that episode. I counted it while watching it, and even took mental note of those bits when comparing Brock's battle with Misty's battle on Pokecommunity's forums. And bear in mind that episode was FAR more recent than DPS02.
:::::But, fine, we'll keep it to your rendition, but I'm doubtful they'd have Misty make that kind of emphasis regarding her resuming her journey if she was still an active gym leader (even with Lt. Surge, he had to specifically confer it onto Vasquez, and going by DPS02, such had to be done formally to the PIA's knowledge for it to stick considering what nearly happened with Forrest despite Brock specifically making him a Gym Leader after Family that Battles Together Stays Together.). Either way, I'm still rewording it a bit to note that she took over as the primary Gym Leader due to her status as Gym Leader being made apparent as early as EP007, both English Dub and Japanese version, which her sisters didn't even deny, which you yourself pointed out.
:::::And my point with the fanfic bit is defining precisely what "headcanon" is. And what I pointed out from the episodes is NOT "headcanon", as it's literally what's shown in the Episode, and what is said in there. If I were to go by my own personal interpretations on an episode, I'd even go as far as to state blatantly false stuff like saying Misty torched the gym when she left just because, hey, I imagined (and by definition interpreted) her doing that before she left, despite it never being shown or even alluded to (not to mention would blatantly be out of character for Misty as she's characterized in the anime). If I were to do that, THEN you can denounce me as engaging in "headcanon." Otherwise, don't. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 19:43, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

User talk:Weedle Mchairybug

2024-06-15T19:47:09Z

Weedle Mchairybug: /* Sensational Sisters */

Psst. Capitalize your sentences. Don't capitalize random words that aren't important. Follow the {{bp|manual of style}} and good ol' English grammar. And accent that é in Pokémon! '''[[User:TTEchidna|TTE]][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 23:23, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

As {{u|TTEchidna}} said, Capitalize your sentences! And where did you get the idea that Misty was the champion of the Togepi competition? IT WASN'T REAL! It was a trap set by Team Rocket so that they could steal her Togepi for [[Colonel Hansen]]. --[[Special:Contributions/Kenji-girl|☆]][[Tracey Sketchit|ケンジ]][[User:Kenji-girl|ガール]] 21:53, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

WOW!!! Though your new, you put up a very good, strong point in arguements! I congratulate you on that! You should start making edits on regular pages, not just talk pages. Good Job!!! --'''[[User:Theryguy512|Theryguy]][[User:Theryguy512/Contribution Page|5]][[User:Theryguy512/Mission Page|1]][[User:Theryguy512/Games|2]]''' 22:21, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

== Errors ==

I really don't think they are errors, Ash has a long journey that's still going, you can't expect him to remember every moment that happened to him. [[User:TheBlazikenMaster|TheBlazikenMaster]] 15:00, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, yeah, but May's was just beginning and the Rubello convention was just after the Fallabor contest, so that same logic can't be applied there. And anyways, it's not that they HAVE to remember everything, but that doesn't mean they should act as though they never heard of it. I mean, that's like forgetting the day of your birth. Besides, how can he forget about a pokemon he owned?![[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 15:16, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
:You do realize its just a tv show. So the writers forgot to have him remember something. Thats an error.[[User:Darth Cookie Monster|Emperor's Cookies]] 15:20, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
::Ok, it fit under error, but just memory error. I still think it's not error as in "senseless". Ok, I am keeping those in the articles as it might look interesting. But I still think the word "forget" is a better way to describe it than "acted like he never heard of...", since that's what's happening, if you act like something never happens the best way to describe it is with the word forget. I am not planning on removing from [[EP233]] or [[AG072]], don't worry. But I still think the word forget is a better way to word it than "acts like he's never heard of". Besides, Ash only had the Primeape for a few episodes, I'm not surprised he forgot about it. [[User:TheBlazikenMaster|TheBlazikenMaster]] 21:14, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

== Misty's Togetic ==

Ok, u win, just fix the grammar!--[[User:Kuki|Kuki]][[User talk:Kuki|Talk]] 12:17, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
:Done and done. Also, thanks. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 12:24, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

== Brock: Only character who looks Japanese ==

WRONG! It's him, Flint, and the Harrison Kids!--[[User:Kuki|Kuki]][[User talk:Kuki|Talk]] 15:09, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Sigh, let me clarify, Brock is the only one of the MAIN characters who looked Japanese. Flint, his siblings, Harrison Kids, Ninetales owner, Suziko, and that Mime jr/Bonsly show director were either side characters or one-shots. If you edited it, I'll revert the edit and make sure I clarified what I was trying to convey
[[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 15:15, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

== Movie 11 ==
I am going to overlook the fact that you overrode an editorial member's contribution without even paying attention to whether or not it supported your point (for instance, you deleted the paragraph in which I stated that the movies marks Origine Forme and Sky Forme's debuts; how is that controversial?). It is childish conduct, but I am used to it by now.

You should have realized that the content I deleted was all ''conjecture''; I couldn't have very well stated erroneous or unfounded information when I only removed other members' conjecture, could I? It may be true that when the first movie was revealed we had good reason to believe that Palkia would tag along with Dialga, but even back then that was not clearly implied. Since then, Dialga and Regigigas have been shown to have some role in the movie on numerous occasions, whereas Palkia has all but been forgotten. As for the new Pokémon, early toy advertisements led some to believe that the unrevealed Pokémon would pertain to the next generation. Since then, Sky Forme has been unveiled and confirmed to be that very same unrevealed Pokémon, leaving no viable reason to suspect that that speculation could still have merit.

All of the above warranted the deletion of the conjecture from the page as soon as last month. But I have refrained from doing so because I knew that certain members' obstinacy could prove problematic. However, by now circumstances have changed due to the fact that the movie has premiered in an early showing in a limited number of Japanese theaters. We already have a synopsis that may not be full-fledged, but is good enough to remove doubt on the subject of Palkia and new Pokémon: They are nowhere to be seen. --[[User:Unown Lord|Unown Lord]] 09:13, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

== Try not to be so biased... ==

Even if Hidaka's statement did sound kinda sexist, well, shit, it's true. Have you ''seen'' the amount of 34 there is of Pokémon, and not just of the human characters? I'm sure you have. Face it, older fans are complete pervs, and it's not like giving Misty short shorts, May a huge rack, and Dawn a short skirt isn't just as sexist. Heck, you couldn't even PLAY as a girl until Crystal! It's not that they're being sexist; it's that they have the internet and know of all the stuff out there... and so therefore, like in ''[[DP039|Steamboat Willies]]'', fanservice, fanservice, fanservice.

Anyway, I reworded the statement, hoping to be more NPOV. Now I'm gonna go wash my keyboard off, because I don't wanna start becoming one of those acronym-throwing Wikipedos. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 23:22, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

:Actually, if I was being biased, I would have only inserted it into Misty's article, and not even have bothered to insert it in May and Dawns articles. Besides, technically, you can play as a girl before Kris, since Misty was playable in Pokemon Puzzle League. And since Love hina comes to mind, in my mindset, Fanservice = sexist. And anyways, May and Dawn were even MORE Fanservicey than Misty (I go by the definition that it's only fanservicey if the person clearly enjoys doing the scandalous thing, or at least implies the enjoyment [Like the majority of the characters in LH, for example.].). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 23:53, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

::I've said this already, but you do not control the definitions of words. Society does. Especially on a wiki, it's important to rely on objective definitions rather than subjective opinions. And even if we go by your definition, Misty clearly enjoyed showing off her body in the Porta Vista Beauty Contest, dressing in that Goldeen swimsuit, and in that mermaid costume, and I don't recall Dawn doing anything "scandalous" on purpose. --[[User:PsychoRobo|PsychoRobo]] 17:09, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

:::No, Misty DIDN'T enjoy the Porta Vista Beauty Contest. She said "It's so degrading, but I need the money" when having to do it, which meant that she didn't like showing off like a playboy model. Also, in regards to the Goldeen outfit, Misty ALSO didn't enjoy it either. She said something like "at least they aren't taking notice of me", which implied she didn't really like the situation she was in (much less having to wear that outfit.). The Mermaid Outfit, she didn't really like having to wear it (ESP. in "The Misty Mermaid"), especially considering that the only reason she did the part was because her sisters set her up (BTW, she refused several times, but eventually relented when she realized her sisters needed help in regards to it). Also, the only reason she agreed to wear the outfit in "Cerulean Blues" was to try and calm down Gyarados. that's FAR Different compared to something like... Oh, I don't know, May's clear enjoyment of stripping on the beach, or Kanako Urashima's complete gladness of stripping (and even doing it in front of her brother at one point.

:::As for what Dawn did that was scandalous, she dressed up as a French Maid (which was a common Japanese Fetish), among other things.[[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 18:46, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Main series games only--[[User:Kuki|Kuki]][[User talk:Kuki|Talk]] 23:53, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

::::Dude, who ''doesn't'' enjoy going to the beach? Besides, is May supposed to wear her regular clothes and GO SWIMMING? And don't forget, Ash wore those clothes too. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 00:56, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

:::::I was referring to the swimsuit contest, since THAT was what you referenced. Also, yes, it's a bit impractical for her to wear her regular clothes and go swimming at the same time, but that doesn't mean she should have stripped in a strip-tease fashion, with her brother practically begging for her to stop doing it, and both he and ash being embarrassed. It's not the question of whether they enjoy going to the beach or not, it's whether they enjoying causing a scandal or not. If you try to disrupt this one more time, I WILL end up being forced to post Love Hina Pics to try and prove what exactly I meant by Fanserviced girls enjoying doing scandalous things. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 01:18, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

::::::I've come to realize that that's what anime does. They're basically all the same. They make the girls into fanservice. Look at YuGiOh GX. The guys wear respectable uniforms while the girls trot around in mini skirts with huge breasts. Come to think of it, Pokémon is being pretty lenient when it comes to fanservice compared to other animes. Not all of the girls have huge breasts unless they are older women (Lorelei and Prof. Ivy). --[[Special:Contributions/Kenji-girl|☆]][[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 01:23, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

::::::: May also has the racks as well, which, along with the other things, makes me want to stop it. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 01:29, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

::::::::Pffsst. You call that a rack? I don't get why people think May's boobs are big. That's just my opinion. --[[Special:Contributions/Kenji-girl|☆]][[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 01:32, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

:::::::::Maybe they aren't as big as Prima's, but they are definitely far too large for her age. I mean, ask her side profile pictures if you don't believe me. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 01:33, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Love Hina pics? If I was more of the male Internet user stereotype, I'd jump for joy at the prospect, but at least someone else might garner "enjoyment" out of them. In the meantime, I'll prepare for the event by giving you a picture of Slave Leia (from Star Wars Episode VI) as soon as I'm back on Bulbagarden forums, because obviously it is not fanservice because she obviously did not enjoy it and it did serve a more meaningful purpose than showing off Carrie Fisher's sweet bod.

Crikey, you make such a big deal out of the "stripping" scene. If anything, it was Max's fault for suggesting that it was striptease in the first place, because, oh, maybe changing into swimsuits on the beach is normal? Besides, American cartoons are arguably worse with these kind of jokes, because several episodes have little boys running around naked (Dexter's Laboratory and The Fairly OddParents, as examples). And yes, controversy over children's TV shows have been done to death already in North America, so I guess you're out of a job when it comes to American cartoons. And I suspect (directed at Kenji-girl) that people think May's boobs are big because this is the Internet, where everything is blown out of proportion.

I laughed at your claim that Dawn dressing up as a French maid was scandalous. Okay, so Ash also dressing up as a maid is not scandalous? What about Ash's recent Tarzan outfit (check Bulbagarden's Ash Club for details)? Or are you being sexist against males by suggesting they can't be hot too? --[[User:PsychoRobo|PsychoRobo]] 15:31, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

:Look, I don't enjoy those things anymore than you do. I used that as a way to try and stop you from doing that (mocking me).

:Also, everyone else made a big deal out of the striptease as well! And anyways, blame the writers as well, since they set it up as a striptease as well. And also blame Ash for looking embarrased about what he just saw. and anyways, MOST people wear an undershirt when they go to the beach. They DON'T, however, go to the beach in their regular clothes and take them off in front of everyone. also, I barely even WATCH Fairly OddParents (as a matter of fact, my parents, as well as I, avoided that show like the plague for the same reasons they mostly avoid the Simpsons.), and while I used to watch Dexters Laboratory, I started to hate it when they did that musical episode.

:and another thing, an entire THREAD was made in regards to how Pokemon was becoming more fetishish and used Dawn's Cheerleader and Maid costumes as an example. I'll eliminate every single sexist action on this planet, male and female alike. Besides, how can I be sexist with my own gender? By being sexist towards males, I'm being sexist towards myself. And anyways, Ash didn't even WANT to wear the Maids outfit, as you can tell by his blushing out of humiliation.

:I have warned you that if you don't stop mocking me, I WILL be forced to post those pics if it stops you. And I will act on it, even though I feel as though this is a mistake. I have hated these pics, but they prove my point as to how degrading fanservice is, and most importantly, how the characters in question actually DO enjoy causing this scandal. You have brought this upon yourself...
:However, I'll be a bit merciful and delay it until I successfully upload the first part of my video, which, as soon as I download Version 12 of Pinnacle, shouldn't take too long, since the Images in question are ON this video. HOWEVER, that doesn't mean you are allowed to mock me. I mean, think of it this way, if your parents, or your friends (real life friends, I mean), mentioned their dislike of May OR Dawn, would you act the very same way towards them that you act towards me? If the answer is no, take that into account before you try to mock me again.

:[[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 16:17, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
::And that entire sexism thread lost all credibility after its first response, when Blackjack Palazzo claimed she wished to see more male fanservice. And there was another girl that said it was mostly males that argue over this kind of thing, and the girls don't see much of a problem. So much for feminism, eh? Plus, I don't know many males who would willingly cross-dress, besides characters like Harley, James, and Bugs Bunny. Ash's unwillingness to wear it is thus irrelevant. I also don't know what a musical episode of Dexter's Laboratory has to do with the discussion. Please stop throwing non sequiturs around if you wish to be taken seriously.

::Oh, you're being merciful? Well, that's just a bit more time to postpone posting Slave Leia pics on your account, then. Anyways, who said I didn't enjoy fanservice? It's so fun to mock.

::As for your last question, of course I would still act the same way towards you. Why should I let other people control the way I think? A lot of people don't like Pokemon in my school, so your "peer pressure" argument barely fazes me. Oh, wait, you're jealous, aren't you? You're jealous because I scored with the same Serebii mod that banned you. You can't believe that I could get on her good side while you ended up becoming the laughingstock of Serebii's idiot hunters, and that's why you put the "real life friends" part. Well, maybe if you weren't trying to usurp her position by judging everyone on the forum with your "holier-than-thou" attitude (kind of like Lisa Simpson), then maybe you wouldn't be in the position you are now! P.S. This is becoming increasingly irrelevant to Bulbapedia editing. If you wish to continue, put this on my Bulbagarden or Pokecommunity account (MetaRobo/PorygonSquared, respectively). [[User:PsychoRobo|PsychoRobo]] 16:48, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

== Linking to other wikis ==

When linking to other wikis, please remeber to use {{ }} around the link, not [[ ]]

Thanks. ♪♪[[User:ShinyPachirisu|Shiny]] [[User Talk:ShinyPachirisu|Pachirisu]] :) ♪♪ 00:38, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

== Let me explain something to you ==

Just because I said that it doesn't only apply to Misty doesn't mean you can go and put it on May and Dawn's pages.

The reason we have a page on SOVA, despite being a fan thing, is because it was a big deal. This isn't so much a big deal that caused fans to write hundreds of letters. Infact I doubt that many people even know about it.

We already mention what he said on [[Masamitsu Hidaka|his page]] and how some fans find it offensive. We don't need to affiliate the character with it as well. Yes it was a shitty thing to say but we don't need to be reminded of it everytime we visit Misty, May, or Dawn's pages. --[[Special:Contributions/Kenji-girl|☆]][[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 11:35, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

::Fine, I won't edit the pages, and I'm also sorry for my response on your talk page, while I'm at it. However, I'm only stopping because Hidaka's page already mentioned it. and anyways, as far as I'm concerned, if it doesn't apply to just one person involved, it applies to ALL people involved. So, next time you say something like that, try it in a way that I can understand. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 11:40, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

== Arceus/Mew dispute ==

I've put up a full explanation at [[Talk:Arceus (Pokémon)#Arceus vs. Mew]]. I don't mean to sound so aggressive, but there truly is no real basis for considering Mew the first. At best, it should be mentioned that the fan community considered it the first, but that was always fanon and never what the games actually claimed.

Again, sorry if I've offended you.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 06:32, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

:I also posted my response on that discussion. And also, Porygon MAY have been made later, but then, if it can't be a descendant of Mew, then HOW can Mew be able to transform into it? I mean, they HAD to have used some form of Mew's DNA in order for it to be able to transform into it and it's family (Besides, they used Mew's DNA to create Mewtwo, who's to say they used ALL of the Mew DNA to transform into it? Besides, the pokedex entries hint that the reason why Mewtwo is savage and aggressive is because they repeatedly spliced Mewtwo's DNA, so I'm guessing they may have used his DNA in Grimer/Muk, Castform, and, yes, even the Porygon Family, so in a sense, they are Mewtwo's Children, and thus, in a sense, Mew's Grandchildren. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 11:00, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
:::Replied on the talk page. As for your comment here, I'm sorry, but it is completely ignorant of any concept of genetics, especially the actual concept of [[wikipedia:RNA splicing|genetic splicing]] and what DNA ''does'', as well as the actual text of Porygon's Pokedex entries, and the in-game description of how {{m|Transform}} works.

:::Let me illustrate your basic misunderstanding - a child typically has distinct DNA from two sources ( a mother and a father). You may not know this, but the mother and father generally have ''completely'' distinct lineages, and share almost no DNA that all humans don't share - to put it simply, the mother and father are generally not brother and sister, or anything close.
:::Now, because of this, the child will have DNA from the mother ''and'' father. What you are claiming is analogous to saying that the child's father should be able to turn into the child's mother, because the child, his descendant, has DNA from his mother. But this is utter hogwash, and immediately recognizable as lunatic raving. The very use of sexual reproduction in macro-evolution is that it introduces '''''NEW''''' genes into the gene pool.
:::If transformation were inherent in the species ''at all'', it would be obvious to even the casual observer that it would be the ''child'' who could be expected to be able to transform into both the father or mother, ''as his very nature'' is to be a collection of both of their DNA.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 05:57, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
::::Okay, first off - you don't get to make ultimatums, that's not how a wiki works. Second off, where in the ''hell'' does the D/P Pokedex say that Mew is "believed to be the originator of all Pokémon", thought to "possibly contain the genetic code of every other Pokémon", or able to "learn every TM/HM"? Finally, how could "Arceus being the original one" and "Mew creating ''ALL'' Pokemon" ever be reconciled? They're necessarily contradictory!
::::However, to try and compromise with you ''without'' making up fanfiction and being dishonest about the Pokedex, I rewrote the section you keep adding without having removed it. Is this acceptable?[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 03:44, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::Fine, I thank you for at least keeping the gist of it. BTW, I wasn't lying about the Pokédex entry. As a matter of fact, I have copied and pasted Mew's D/P Dex entry from his article just for you to see it. here it is:
:::::'''''''Because it can use all kinds of moves, many scientists believe Mew to be the ancestor of Pokémon. '''''''
:::::And to further prove that I'm not lying, I ALSO am going to post a link:
:::::Bulbapedia.Bulbagarden.net/wiki/Mew_(Pokémon)#Pokédex_entries.
:::::Next time you try to accuse me of lying about it, read Mew's D/P pokedex entry first, since it still said that Mew was believed to be the ancestor of pokémon (the fact it said pokémon made it seem like it said all pokémon.).
:::::Also, I tried to reason with you multiple times, but you insisted that it shouldn't be in there, despite the fact that the Dex actually stated it, so I was forced to take drastic measures.
:::::[[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 10:33, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
::::::YEs, you ''were'' incorrect about the Pokedex entry - you claimed it specifically said those things, and ''it did not''. '''Those''' were the points in contention, and you keep trying to avoid them. The Dex does '''not''' "actually say it", so you're claim that I forced you to keep trying to pass off your speculation as fact is incorrect.
*Specifically:
#The DP pokedex entry says '''nothing''' about TMs/HMs.
#The DP pokedex entry says '''nothing''' about genetics.
#The DP pokedex entry says '''nothing''' about "''originating'' '''all''' Pokemon".[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 01:05, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
::Do I LOOK Like I care what the DP pokedex says?! I only care for what ALL of them said. And ANOTHER thing, they may have not explicitly mentioned "TMs/HMs", but the mere fact that Mew's DP pokédex entry said that it can use ''All kinds of moves'' implies that it can learn TMs and HMs as well, as well as natural, move tutors, and even moves only available from Metronome. As for Genetics, The closest thing it came to mentioning Genetics was in SSBB's Trophy, and besides which, the mere fact that it can learn transform (which is stated to be the recombining of DNA into the pokemon that matches that DNA) should be enough to prove it's the Ancestor. And for Originating All Pokemon. SO WHAT? The Pokédex entry ALSO didn't say it originated most, some, few, or even only one Pokemon, either. It just said "Ancestor of All Pokemon", and from what I can tell, especially with how people often interperet thing, if it doens't explicitly mention that it's only most, few, some, or only one pokemon that it is an ancestor of, that means it's the ancestor of All Pokemon. Therefore, Mew stated that it's ancestor of pokemon = ancestor of all pokemon.

::I also forgot to mention one thing. There's a Significant difference between Mew's transforming into a Pokemon and Ditto's Transforming into a pokémon. Ditto can only transform into a pokemon when it sees it [It's also implied that it can't go by memory], whileas with Mew, it's implied thar Mew can transform into any pokemon without necessarily needing to see it at first (as one of the problems with trying to get Mew in Emerald is that it can transform into pokemon, and in the Anime, it's been shown to transform into pokemon that it hasn't had any contact with, or at the very least not any direct contact [eg, Ho-oh, Taillow, etc.].).

::Even IF it's not directly mentioned in the D/P/P Pokedex, we must wait until GSDS comes out (if it comes out) or, assuming that there is one, generation 5 before we say that it's been retconned. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 01:23, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

== Wow! ==

In all the time you've been on Bulbapedia, you haven't made a single contribution to the Userspace! That's quite an accomplishment! --[[User:Politoed666|ニョロトノ]][[User talk:Politoed666|''666'']] 22:22, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
:Userspace? [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 22:37, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
::Its the user page and anything connected with it except talk pages. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[User:Jmath/Sandbox|'''th''']] 22:41, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
::Oh, that. See, it's in red spacing, and I'm not completely sure if I can create one. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 22:42, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
:::O.O You don't have to create a page... ♪♪[[User:ShinyPachirisu|Shiny]] [[User Talk:ShinyPachirisu|Pachirisu]] :) ♪♪ 22:44, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
==Legendary Genders==
it said none because Legendary's dont have genders! [[User:Mooites|Mooites]] 01:55, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
:Only in the games, though. Maybe you've forgotten, but a Baby Lugia DID appear in the show. If they didn't have genders, please explain how Silver even exists?! Heck, most of the legendaries had multiples in the anime, and if they don't have genders, how can they have multiple species at the same time? [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 02:16, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
::Asexual Reproduction? They are hermaphrodites? There's more methods of reproduction than male/female sexual reproduction, you know. [[User:PsychoRobo|PsychoRobo]] 22:11, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
::good point. [[User:Mooites|Mooites]] 02:19, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
:::Mooites, this is directed at PsychoRobo, so don't think it seems like i'm lecturing you. PsychoRobo, ONE. Next time you have to respond to my usertalk, or any talk page for that matter, place it AFTER the recent poster. TWO. Asexual Reproduction requires budding, for the most part. THREE, Hermaphrodites change genders (meaning, they change from female to male just to reproduce. So, in one sense, the Marril family are hermaphrodites.), so they would still need to mate in order to reproduce the same effect. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 22:35, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
::::First, to respond to three. The topic was whether legendaries had genders or not. Just because they need to mate doesn't mean they have defined genders. And to two, budding is not the only form of asexual reproduction. In fact, many creatures such as starfish and especially plants can reproduce with a fragment of the parent. [[User:PsychoRobo|PsychoRobo]] 00:06, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::I think Budding involves the separation of the original host, so Starfish actually DO bud to reproduce. Also, Plants technically require pollination in order to reproduce (the stigma is the male plant, the phyla is the female, the pollen goes to another plant, they make eggs known as seeds, get my drift?), so technically, it's not asexual reproduction. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 00:10, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
::::::Plants can regenerate asexually with one of their body parts removed, though. It's not their main option, but it is an option. [[User:PsychoRobo|PsychoRobo]] 14:51, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

== Edits ==

Please stop doing it. We can discuss it on the talk page. Just no more edits. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[User:Jmath/Sandbox|'''th''']] 22:07, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

:Fine, But the thing still stands. Now, if you want to add a footnote that this happened before the release of Platinum on the edits page (or request me to do so), fine, because that way, we'll have middle ground. I can say it's technically a out of order defeat, and you can say that it was before Platinum was released. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 22:11, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
::Anyway, where did you get that the order is changed? It isn't anywhere else here. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[User:Jmath/Sandbox|'''th''']] 22:13, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
:::Tv.com. The Platinum release thread. Specifically:

:::"Hearthome Gym is now the Third gym, Veilstone is the Fourth, and Pastoria is the Fifth

:::How dumb is it for Fantina not to have Drifblim. Her dress is best on it, and her gym in the anime was. "

:::"Oh, I didn't even notice the Gym order switch!

:::Yay, in Diamond and Pearl Fantina uses Drifblim in Super Contests, and since her dress is based on one I guess they'll let her keep that Driflblim. Now while the Drifblim/Duskull switch is odd, why in the world did they replace her Gengar with a Haunter? Just becuase she's no longer the fifth Gym they downgraded her Pokemon?

:::Though I do agree with the evolving of Gardenia's Cherubi into a Cherrim, hopefully Dawn will get one in the anime."

:::The Quotes were from SPDShadowRanger and Pikachu315111, respectively

:::[[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 22:23, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Are you sure what's written there can be taken as fact? How can some guy know that when the game hasn't even been released yet. Even Bulbapedia is not mentioning it. At least edit it when the game's released. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[User:Jmath/Sandbox|'''th''']] 22:26, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

:Considering how even Serebii (The webmaster, not the pokemon) is playing through Platinum as we speak, I'd say it already HAS been released. If serebii updated the site to include the changes in Roark's pokemon/Puzzle, It can be fairly certain that these others have played the game. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 22:30, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
::Then what is September 13 for? Some guys get special privileges? [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[User:Jmath/Sandbox|'''th''']] 22:34, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
:::I just changed the release date, and mentioned why in it's talk page. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 22:35, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

If you could make the footnote for that trivia, go ahead. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[User:Jmath/Sandbox|'''th''']] 22:41, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

== Style ==

Please read the {{bp|manual of style}} and familiarize yourself with English grammar before you edit too much more. Your recent edits to [[legendary birds]] spelled Pokémon as pokemon, used "it's", among as possessive, and has weird capitals all over the place, among other errors. --[[User:Martonimos|Martonimos]][[User talk:Martonimos|((Argh]]|[[Special:Contributions/Martonimos|Blargh))]] 20:57, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

== Delete? ==

Do you want your user page deleted?Can I put the tag on it? another user generously made one for you--[[User:DCM|DCM]][[User talk:DCM|((Nag at Me!]][[Special:Contributions/DCM|Edits))]]

== Speculation ==

Please don't put speculation in main articles; just put it on the talk page. [[User:Dialgarules|Dialgarules]] 01:30, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
:I'm sorry, but you ''really'' have to make sense on this site. You put Poké-ball when it SAYS IN THE WELCOME THINGY to say '''Poké [space] Ball!''' When you say that Meowth "prefers to walk around" it could mean a lot of things. You could say that it likes to be out of its Poké [space] Ball. How about you take a quick look at [[Bulbapedia:Manual_of_style|this]]? [[User:Dialgarules|Dialgarules]] 00:39, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

== Pokémon Heroes Subtitles ==

There are such things that are called, oh maybe you've heard of them, ERRORS. I've listened to it several times and it does not sound like "I'm sorry" to me. Sometimes the people making the subtitles mess up. Also the whole Misty catching Totodile thing doesn't float. That's a matter of opinion and making speculations because of the way the balls were thrown. Don't put any of these things on Totodile's page again.--[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 10:52, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
:Ok, but then again, technically, several other things like the Major events section, Trivia, and Errors section technically shouldn't appear in those pages either, since it's kinda speculation in and of itself, no matter how it's worded. Heck, the entirety of Bulbapedia's articles are speculation. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 13:42, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

== Anime abilities ==

Please do not add unconfirmed abilities to anime Pokémon pages. It doesn't matter if the only ability for a {{AP|Totodile}} is {{a|Torrent}}, or if the only ability for a {{AP|Larvitar}} is {{a|Guts}}. Unless it is confirmed in words in the anime, the ability stays as Unknown. The unconfirmed ability removal was started by {{u|Politoed666}} an EB member. - [[User:Kogoro|'''<sc>Kogoro</sc>''']] '''|''' [[User talk:Kogoro|'''<sc>Talk to me</sc>''']] '''|''' 04:34, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
:If that's the case, should we eliminate the majority of Psyduck's wins (or participations in battles in other words?), or heck, Pikachu's Participation in Round 2 of the Saffron Gym battle? I mean, they never explicitly said in the anime "I choose Pikachu"/"Pikachu, GO!" or "Psyduck, I choose you!" those times (if anything, the opposite is true, as with Psyduck, it pops out when she's choosing Staryu, Starmie, or some other pokemon, and Ash tried to tell Pikachu to avoid battling Kadabra.), and thus is the same thing, as far as I'm concerned (I also posted this for Politoed666 on Maverick Nate's talk Page.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 04:57, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
::Then understand what she meant to say and not what she literally said. Psyduck is ''used'' in the anime. Torrent is not. Pikachu is ''used'' in the anime. Guts is not. Abilities that are not mentioned and do not ever appear should not be put on anime pages. [[User:IIMarckus|IIMarckus]] 05:04, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
:::Even IF the ability is the only thing it's got?! I mean, common sense should dictate the fact that, if it's the only ability it can ever have, it is to be included in the abilities section, REGARDLESS if it's stated in the anime or not. Besides, Abilities ARE used as well (they activate under certain conditions). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 05:08, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
::::The anime and games barely match up at the best of times. You might as well be adding “Based on the moves such‐and‐such knows, it is probably between levels 34 and 40” to pages. Nothing suggests that the Totodile in the anime has Torrent. [[User:IIMarckus|IIMarckus]] 05:11, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
:::::On the case of the ability needing to be mentioned in words, how else would an ability be confirmed? Misty's Psyduck popping out of it's Poké Ball and battling is visual, so it's obvious without any words. It's rather hard to not notice the flash of light come from Misty's pack, then Psyduck standing near her. With abilities, it's a little less black & white. Unless someone like Brock says something like "Totodile's using its ability, Torrent!" we're not able to know that it's actually Torrent activating or not. I hope you understand now. - [[User:Kogoro|'''<sc>Kogoro</sc>''']] '''|''' [[User talk:Kogoro|'''<sc>Talk to me</sc>''']] '''|''' 05:41, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

== Grammar ==

The first letter of every sentence is capitalized, and Pokémon is spelled with an é and an uppercase P. You've been here long enough to know that, so you should have gotten it the first time. ''[[User:Maverick Nate|'''Maverick''']][[User talk:Maverick Nate|'''Nate''']]'' 15:45, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

:Please, please starting using better grammar. Stop making so many run-on sentences. And stop capitalizing words that don't need to be like ''dub''. Only capitalize the first word in the sentence, Pokémon names, character names, anything with Poké in front of it, and proper nouns. Also you use ''whileas'' in your sentences A LOT. Whileas is not a word. If you want, but really not needed, put ''while as''. But you really don't need it. Just say ''while''. And don't over use those parenthesis (). You use them way too much. And try not to add these extra words like ''merely'', ''actually'', or ''clearly'' unless absolutely needed. Thank you. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 06:05, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

== Ironically ==

Please don't over user the term 'ironically'. Thanks, --[[User:RexRacer|'''Rex]][[Quilava (Pokémon)|Racer''']] [[User talk:RexRacer|'''''-talk''''']] 15:52, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

== "Focusing" ==

There is a difference between an episode focusing on a particular character, and a particular character supporting them. For episode 232? That is not an episode focusing on Misty. Brock? Yes. Look a little more closely at these roles, then decide who it's focused on. -[[User:Sketch|Sketch]] 21:01, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
:Well, actually it's focused on both. You see, if it wasn't for Misty, Brock would have become the Ninetale's owner's reincarnate, and Ash would have also completely fallen for the deception, and Brock would also have never figured out that the Ninetales in question was just trying to relive it's memories of it's own trainer, so it's also focused upon in there. Now, if you want "supporting", Ash is a good example, He didn't initially think about it being a trick/illusion made by Ninetales, even claiming Misty was paranoid, and only started to believe when Ash saw Brock go through her.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 21:06, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
::Just because Misty figured out what Ninetails was doing doesn't mean it's a Misty focused episode. Stop trying to look for any little thing that makes Misty the focus of the episode. Like 133. Pikachu and Meowth were also the focal points of the episode so why didn't you think of adding Ash and Team Rocket as focuses. Because they are not. The focuses were the Pokémon. Not Misty. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 00:28, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
:::Actually, in regards to EP133, it's because Meowth and Pikachu already have their OWN episode focusing templates, so adding in Jessie James Ash or Team Rocket's episode focusing templates would have been pointless.

:::And anyways, she didn't merely just "Figure it out", she tried to warn Ash and especially Brock for a significant portion of the episode. See, anything a main character does that's significant to the episode as well as focuses on them for the majority of the time is a "episode focused on so-and-so" episode in and of itself, and Contests/Gym Battles and even Captures aren't enough. I mean, Jessie, for instance, won a ribbon in the episode where Ash beat fantina, was this a Jessie-oriented episode? no, because she was barely even focused on [in fact, unless I'm mistaken, which I probably am, i think the contest was actually not even shown until after Ash won the battle] the episode [[EP103|Misty Meets her Match]] was a similar scenario.). Now, if I added in the template for episode 001, then yes, your accusations would be legitimate, correct, and justified.

:::It doesn't matter anyways, as I have already completed the test anyways (Ash:40, Misty:46, maybe Ash:40, Misty:45 now.), and this was actually a test to see if Ash was truly the central character (the central character would usually have most of the entire show focused on him/her. As he didn't exceed Misty, he's not really a central main character.). the only part Misty had in it was to see whether she was actually equal to Ash, or rather, to set a fair comparison between the characters to have it be a fair test (I can't use Brock or Tracey, because that would be a no contest, and thus, an unfair advantage on Ash's part.). I also plan on doing the same thing with Ash and May in regards to AG, and Ash and Dawn in DP as well.

:::On a side note, I also did it to statistically find out which of the girls was actually close to being Ash's equal (I earlier speculated Misty, but I found out that she actually exceeded Ash), and I only did it because I have certain doubts of Dawn actually being equal to Ash (since I researched it, and noticed initially that Misty seemed closer to equality to Ash than May and Dawn were). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 01:08, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
::::Just because Togepi doesn't have a focusing category yet doesn't automatically make Misty the character of focus. News flash, Ash is the main character of the show not Misty. And there is WAY MORE THAN 40 episodes focusing on Ash. As for the female character that is Ash's equal, I believe it's Dawn. For someone who's been in the series for 107 episodes, she sure had a significant amount of episodes focusing on her. Maybe not as much as Misty, but Misty was around for 250 plus episodes. At the rate the show is going, Dawn will probably have more episodes than Misty. I know you might not like to hear that, but it's the truth. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 01:15, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

::::in regards to Togepi, if you are talking about Tanks a lot, it's because Misty pretty much organized the attack among other things. As for your claims that Ash is focused upon more than Misty (and more than 40 episodes), that's not even close to a true statement. I already did the analysis of all the episodes I could, outrightly ignoring those that are completely unknown. Also, Most of the Johto episodes didn't even focus on Ash at all (and also didn't focus on Misty, Brock, OR Team Rocket), Instead, it focused on COTDs with even Ash being nothing more than the Background, so, in all reality, Ash isn't the central character you think he is. If anything, it's you whose being more biased. I was trying to make it as fair as I can. There were even Gym matches that barely even focused on Ash at all, despite his participating in them (Case in point: Misty Meets her Match.) And also, the majority of the captures he made in the Kanto Saga either had him sharing the spotlight (Ash Catches a Pokémon, which not only dealt with Ash's captures, but Character Development from Misty as well, since a significant part of the episode dealt with her trying to cope with Caterpie despite her fear of bug-types/bugs.), or was never even in the spotlight in the first place (Charmander and the Stray Pokemon, as that episode dealt with Brock trying to help Charmander and all that, among other things, and Ash pretty much took Charmander.).

::::And also, I counted the episode listings thus far in regards to Dawn-centric episodes, and out of the 107 episodes thus far, only 20 episodes were actually focused on Dawn (see, in order for it to be a lot for a girl who has been in for 107 episodes, it needs to be, oh... 40 episodes in that range at least.). Misty had more by this time (7 more by the halfway point, and we just went by the halfway point already, as the 12th movie trailer implied that the upcoming 12th movie will be the last DP series movie.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 01:41, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
:::::This is the problem I have with your counting. Obviously there are others who do not agree that characters in certain episodes have "focus". Therefore your "statistics" aren't entirely accurate. You can say that "Oh, this character is the focus in this episode so that gives them this many episodes..." and so forth...that doesn't make it true. -[[User:Sketch|Sketch]] 01:48, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
::::::Since others seem to not agree amongst themselves, that also means that even THEIR views on what's "Focus" isn't entirely accurate either. And anyways, if that's the case, then Ash never really had much focus in the Leagues, even though those league episodes were listed as episodes focused on him. It's no different. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 01:51, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
:::::::Misty wasn't the one who orginized the plan in Tanks A lot. From what I remember, it was mostly Team Rocket's idea. You give Misty WAY TOO MUCH credit for things. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 02:02, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
::::::::Like how you gave too much credit to Ash or Dawn? you don't seem to be getting this, even without Tanks a Lot, she still had more ACTUAL character-centric episodes than Ash anyhow, and had more character-centric episodes than Dawn, anyways, even by range. And hey, what about the part about Entei at your own risk being a Brock centric episode just because his Foretress evolving, even though there were episodes where a main characters pokemon evolved even though said main character wasn't even the focus of the episode ("March of the Exeggutor Squad" says hi, since the episode was actually a Misty-centric episode by all definitions, and yet Ash's Charmeleon evolved, despite his barely even being out of the background.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 02:17, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Because Ash is the absolute main character of the show. And you only so far counted the original series episodes. What about Advanced and DP? You can't possibly believe Misty has more character focused episodes than Ash. And as for Entie At Your Own Risk, it does automatically a character focused episode when one of their Pokémon evolves. There Pokémon accidentally wondering off doesn't. And you say that its Misty focused because Togepi got inside the tank but refuse to acknowledge Ash and Team Rocket for the very same reason.

Personally, I think your a bit Misty obsessed and are looking for any reason to label Misty the focus of an episode. Please come to the realization that Misty was not the main focus of the series and that Ash was, and still is. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 02:27, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

:No, he ISN'T the absolute main character. Also, I counted the original series episodes because I just wanted to focus on whose the more equal female. And anyways, since you said "Original Series", that's because it's three different series in Japan, meaning, trying to compare is ridiculous beyond belief. I mean, it's like trying to say Ash was more popular than May in the Original series, it's silly. As for the whole thing about evolution=character-focus episode, no it doesn't. In order for it to truly be a character-centric episode, the character in question must have actual focus for more than 50% of the entire episode. As Brock wasn't even focused on for most of the episode, evolution or not, it's not an actual "Brock-centric episode".

:Also, I'm not misty-obsessed (aside from wanting to want her to return and working to make sure i do that, of course.). Believe me, If I WAS truly what you had described me, I would have labeled EP001, and absolutely every single episode Misty was in for that matter [even that brief cameo she had in the Hoenn Conference), as being a Misty-centric episode just because she's in it. And anyways, even if she wasn't, Ash wasn't either. I mean, I could list a few episodes that didn't focus on ANY of the main characters at all, like the majority of the Johto saga (The Xatu episode didn't focus on Ash, the Sunflora Vileplume episode didn't focus on Ash, the the Red Gyarados arc didn't focus on Ash [if it focused on anyone, it was Lance], etc. etc.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 03:02, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

::Yes, he is. Misty and the others are main characters but the anime basically revolves around Ash. ESPECIALLY in the original series in which you keep insisting Misty is the center of the series. What did Misty do? Was it Misty who competed in the Gym Battles? Was it Misty who competed in the Pokémon League? Was it Misty who was deciding where they were heading next? She was basically a character like Brock, Tracey, and Max are. One of Ash's friends who follows him and really doesn't do anything that greatly impacts the direction of the series. This does not mean that they are not important but they are basically behind Ash and are not his equal in anyway. The beginning of the Japanese openings never said "Satoshi, Kasumi, and Takeshi". They always said "Satoshi". It wasn't until the Diamond and Pearl that it was changed to "Satoshi and Hikari". It was the Advanced Generation were they decided to share the main point of the series with another character, May.

::You seem to be misunderstanding what I meant. I didn't mean every single episode is Ash focused. I'm saying that the anime in general is Ash focused.

::To Bulbapedia's standards, an episode in which a main character catches a Pokémon, evolves a Pokémon, or releases a Pokémon is an automatic focus on a particular character. Regardless of what you think.

::Yes, you are indeed Misty obsessed if you believe that she was more important of a character than Ash is. Even I don't say that about Tracey. If Misty was indeed the most important character of the series than why isn't she in it anymore? Why did the producers decide to keep Brock and not her?

::So are you trying to tell me that what ever happened after the original series doesn't matter? That it doesn't matter that Ash continued to be in more episodes after Misty's departure. Get a clue. Ash is the center of the anime followed by Dawn and May then the other characters, which includeds Misty. Of course Team Rocket is up their with May and Dawn as the opposing side to the heroes. You need to except that. Just because Misty has a lot of fans doesn't make her more important in the series than Ash is. You are being way too baised in your decisions. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 03:51, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

:::''Yes, he is. Misty and the others are main characters but the anime basically revolves around Ash. ESPECIALLY in the original series in which you keep insisting Misty is the center of the series. What did Misty do? Was it Misty who competed in the Gym Battles? Was it Misty who competed in the Pokémon League? Was it Misty who was deciding where they were heading next? She was basically a character like Brock, Tracey, and Max are. One of Ash's friends who follows him and really doesn't do anything that greatly impacts the direction of the series. This does not mean that they are not important but they are basically behind Ash and are not his equal in anyway. The beginning of the Japanese openings never said "Satoshi, Kasumi, and Takeshi". They always said "Satoshi". It wasn't until the Diamond and Pearl that it was changed to "Satoshi and Hikari". It was the Advanced Generation were they decided to share the main point of the series with another character, May. ''

:::Actually, she did greatly impact the series, as if it wasn't for her, Ash would have DIED. Since you guys are saying that he IS the Anime, then, if it wasn't for her, the anime would have ended right then and there. Besides, the only time relating to battles where the focus was undeniably on Ash was in the Leagues (The Gyms are debatable, as the Gym episodes seemed to focus more on the characters appearing than on Ash himself, or in the case of the Rudy Gym Episode, focused almost exclusively on Misty.). Besides, the point of the poll was how much screentime she really got compared to the Girls, and to be honest, I wasn't even anticipating the results to be as high as it was.

:::''You seem to be misunderstanding what I meant. I didn't mean every single episode is Ash focused. I'm saying that the anime in general is Ash focused.''

:::You said he was the "Absolute" main character, which, according to Webster, means everything. which, taking that definition into account, would imply that Absolutely every millisecond of every episode would be focused on Ash, which it really wasn't.

:::''To Bulbapedia's standards, an episode in which a main character catches a Pokémon, evolves a Pokémon, or releases a Pokémon is an automatic focus on a particular character. Regardless of what you think.''

:::Regardless if the episode focused 90% more on a Main Character other than Ash and Ash himself got only 10% when the capture/evolution/release episode was made (Like in the Charmander episode, even though Ash caught Charmander, it was more focused on Brock, as he was the one who reacted first to Damian's neglect, he's the one who cared for Charmander the most, he was the one who got extremely worried about Charmander when it left upon recovery to try and reunite with Damian. All Ash did throughout the episode was capture it [and, according to Brock, checked it's tail.].). That's crazy! I mean, Misty caught Psyduck, and I'll be the first to admit that the episode of it's capture barely even focused on her. If it even focused on anyone, it was Officer Jenny and Nurse Joy, which was a major reason as to why I didn't even include it.

:::''Yes, you are indeed Misty obsessed if you believe that she was more important of a character than Ash is. Even I don't say that about Tracey. If Misty was indeed the most important character of the series than why isn't she in it anymore? Why did the producers decide to keep Brock and not her?

:::Actually, I wasn't even thinking Misty was more important than Ash when I did this test. I just was doing it to measure the amount of character centric episodes Misty got in comparison to Ash (As well as the females in comparison to Ash as a whole.). heck, to be honest, I didn't even anticipate that Misty would get more episodes than Ash (The least I could predict was probably Misty: 45% Ash: 65%, if not 50/50.). The only reason why I had gotten the results to be 40:46 for Ash and Misty was because I didn't realize that someone had already listed the Johto Conference episodes as being Ash centric. Besides, if I was truly that which you described me as, I would have posted every single episodes that Misty ever appeared in as being a "Misty Centric" episode just because she appeared (Which I didn't and I actually gave reasons for why the episodes were focused on Misty or Ash.).

:::''So are you trying to tell me that what ever happened after the original series doesn't matter? That it doesn't matter that Ash continued to be in more episodes after Misty's departure. Get a clue. Ash is the center of the anime followed by Dawn and May then the other characters, which includeds Misty. Of course Team Rocket is up their with May and Dawn as the opposing side to the heroes. You need to except that. Just because Misty has a lot of fans doesn't make her more important in the series than Ash is. You are being way too baised in your decisions.''

:::No I wasn't. And anyways, if Ash was truly the center of the show as you claim, please explain to me why the writers actually considered replacing Ash twice. You know exactly what I mean, the special Raikou: The Legend of Thunder was released midway through Johto, where Ash wasn't even in that special, period, much less the Main Character, and some fans even stated that the special was a prototype for a series that wouldn't have involved Ash at all. Later, they revealed a Poster advertizing for a DP anime that had Dawn, Dawn, and Dawn alone on it, absolutely no sign of Ash on it, period. Some of the fanbase thought they were actually replacing Ash for the series because of that (and Dogasu even admitted that the reasoning behind the belief was legitimate). Now granted, they decided to keep Ash on, but the mere fact that they even thought of that special and making that Poster in that way implies that the writers felt that even Ash was expendable, which implies that, even back in the original series, Ash wasn't the star of the show (The writers wouldn't even THINK of doing the Raikou special if they felt that Ash was truly the star of the show.). So who's being more biased now? [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 14:28, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

You know Weedle, Ash IS the main character of the show. That doesn't mean he has to get the focus in ''every'' episode. It's on his goals that the anime revolves around not on any other characters. Its been like that since the beginning of the series. Ash always seems to be there when everyone else isn't. And the part about Misty saving Ash, do you really think a main character would '''die'''? That's never going to happen. Sure they may be life-threatening moments but they would never ''die''.

Naruto is a perfect example of being the main character but not given the focus in every episode. Its just like that with Ash. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 15:38, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
:I really don't think your experiment should have been done in the mainspace--[[User:RexRacer|'''Rex]][[Quilava (Pokémon)|Racer''']] [[User talk:RexRacer|'''''-talk''''']] 15:53, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

:Technically, he did die, twice. In the episode "The Tower of Terror", Haunter took Ash and Pikachu's souls out of their bodies after they caused the Chandelier to fall on them. The second time was in the first movie, where, after Ash got in the way of Mewtwo and Mew's attack, he turned to stone, couldn't awaken, and the only reason he was even alive now was because of the tears and he was, both clinically and truly, up to the point of the tears, dead. So, yes, they did "Kill" Ash.

:Anyways, not focusing on him is one thing, as there were plenty of episodes in the original series (a bit too much if you really think about it, even WITHOUT Misty), that didn't actually focus on him. No, my point was they not only were he was '''not''' focused upon in the ''[[The Legend of Thunder]]'' special, but he didn't even appear in it, period. A similar thing happened when they revealed that they had plans of making a DP Anime. They unveiled a poster of it, and the way they unveiled Dawn for the first time ever made it seem as though she was not only replacing Ash, but that Ash was NOT going to be appearing in the anime. That's my point. I mean, think about it, Even IF the writers didn't give Ash the focus in every single episode, if they felt that Ash was the Be-all-end-all of the show, why would they do [[The Legend of Thunder|a special]] that didn't even have a cameo from Ash, or a Promotional Poster for DP that focused on Dawn alone, and made it seem as though Ash was going to leave the Anime, and Dawn would take up the mantle of the star of the show. I mean, in the DP poster's case, it was one of the biggest discussions at the time. Those, to me, implied that the writers viewed even Ash as expendable.

:As for that comment for RexRacer, care to suggest where else I could put this experiment then? [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 16:02, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
::Sure at the time of the poster, people may have thought Ash was going to be replaced but the writers never specifically stated it. They may have been referencing the fact that a new girl is going to play a important role in the anime not as in being the only one. And Ash could not be in the Raikou special since he was at Hoenn at the time and the special happened in Johto. And you can't say from one incident that Ash is expendable. Again, I state the example of Naruto. There have been episodes in which he hasn't appeared at all.

Sure Ash may have kinda "died" but he always came back almost immediately instead of staying dead. Which means a ''lot''. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 16:14, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

:No, The Raikou Special actually took place (And AIRED in Japan, don't bring Chronicles into it) between Hatching a Plan, and Dues and Don'ts. And it wasn't a chronicles episode (Heck, Pokemon Hoso hadn't even been aired yet.). They even referenced several parts involving the special in the Johto League when Ash fought Jackson/Vincent.). As for referencing a new girl, They had a poster showing a new character named May and they had Ash with her as well when it was first unveiled, so that cannot be it.

:As for Naruto, were these main episodes, or were these episodes from a spinoff series similar to Hoso/Chronicles? [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 16:31, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
::Okay whatever. That doesn't mean that one special is enough to disprove Ash's status. The characters of the special hasn't been given a major appearance ever since then except Vincent but he appeared for one episode anyway. And for the poster thing, Dawn is kinda more important than May was. In all the DP movies, she is given equal importance with Ash unlike May who was only given importance in '''1''' movie.

::And the Naruto episodes were the main ones. I don't know if there were spinoffs but it doesn't matter. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 16:43, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

:::I think that a member of BMGf by the name of Rhyperior pointed out that it was Ash who saved Alamos/The world in Movie 10, and that Dawn ultimately took the back seat, anyways (The only remotely important thing that she did within the movie was save Ash) as it was Ash who told Pikachu and Pachirisu to reactivate the device, according to him, thus saving the world/Alamos, and he also scolded Palkia. Also, in the Shaymin Movie, other than the fact that she and brock tried to stop the Glacier (which even then, they weren't even the ones who actually stopped it, it was Regigigas), she didn't really do much. I mean, did she pair up with Ash and the two of them together, along with Shaymin, Muten, and Giratina, utterly defeat Zero? No, Ash was the one who ended up stopping him once and for all. So, in actuality, she actually had the same role May did, meaning she never was important to begin with. And, arguably, May wasn't given any importance in any movies, considering the fact that the climax of the 9th movie had her act like a total coward and didn't even attempt to save Manaphy (Instead, it was Ash who ended up saving the day, as usual.). So, in any case, I still say that Ash was expendable, as the character didn't appear, and the special, according to many, was a test to see what Audiences would feel, which implies that they had plans to replace Ash. Plus, the Poster, not to mention. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 16:58, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
::::Ash and Dawn were both on the tower activating the music device not Ash alone. It wasn't just Ash's Pikachu but Dawn's Pachirisu that also helped in it. In the Giratina movie, both Ash ''and'' Dawn went to the Reverse World not just Ash alone. She interacted with Shaymin almost as much as Ash. And how could you say May wasn't given any importance in the 9th movie? Its not about how she acted. A main plot point in the movie was May interacting with Manaphy and treating it like its mother. Whatever she did in the movie near the end doesn't matter since their relationship was shown for a major portion of the movie.

::::And like I said before, the writers haven't made any move to remove Ash from the story. The special is a seperate entity with its characters almost never appearing again in the anime. They may have looked to have tried a few attempts to remove him but the fact that they keep bringing Ash back show that he IS important. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 17:46, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
:::::Sigh, look, if you want to mention this to anyone, tell it to Rhyperior, assuming you are also a member of BMGf, all I did was just quote him. As for the part about the Reverse World, I know they both were in the Reverse world in the first visit, but during the second visit, it was Ash, and Ash alone who defeated Zero once and for all (Dawn was stuck trying to stop the glacier that, in the end, only Regigigas was able to stop, remember?). I mean, the summary of that movie even stated this.

:::::As for your point as to how she raised and interacted with Manaphy in the movie, if the same deal with Misty interacting with Togepi wasn't even considered even remotely important despite some episodes focusing on Togepi, then, Titular pokemon or not, her interacting with Manaphy isn't important either.

:::::As for thinking he's important, so what, Brock stays on the show for barely as long as Ash has, and he's not even as important as him, so Episode lengths aren't a detemining factor. And anyways, in order for someone to be a central character, not only do they NOT replace the character, they also are unable to even think about replacing it (Which, at least twice, they did think of replacing him.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 17:58, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Ash hasn't been replaced in the main anime. That's what matters not some random special. The anime is more important than the Chronicles or the raikou special. Its even more imortant than the movies. I know Brock has been there for a good portion of the series but he doesn't do that much anyway. This is Ash's story not anyone else's since he is in every episode.

Misty has interacted with Togepi to what extent in the movies? She practically just holds it for a major portion of the movies. May did a ''lot'' with Manaphy. It also helps that Manaphy is the titular Pokémon for the movie.

:Let's see, she fed it, she discovered some of it's metronome abilities, had it fight against Pikachu at one point, heck, her Togepi was also integral to defeating Colonel Hanson and reclaiming the Togepi Paradise. Besides, if we want to get technical, what did May ''actually'' do with it. She also, for the most part, held it, and heck, when it got kidnapped, what did she do? just stand there!

:They may not have done it, but they have certainly thought about it. I mean sure, they didn't replace him, but the point was they thought about replacing him. And anyways, considering how they referred to that special in the main series, anyways, it's a main series episode in and of itself. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 18:21, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
::I am talking about the movies. Misty hasn't done anything with Togepi in a movie. Sure Togepi has had its share of screentime in the anime but only in a few episodes. Out of the entire Johto season, Togepi might have had only less than 10 episodes that truly concentrate on it. It did ''nothing'' for the rest.

::And as long as Ash isn't replaced and keep appearing in every episode, he is the main character. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 18:28, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
Just so you guys know, the fact that this conversation is taking place is hilarious. I don’t even see why we have these categories that are almost solely based on opinion; it’s not as if we don’t have enough categories already (over two ''thousand''). [[User:IIMarckus|IIMarckus]] 19:08, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
:Well, in the Movies case, I can name one thing it did. It was implied that Togepi was the one who freed Zapdos and Moltres, as we saw it doing that "metronome" arm wave thing when Tracey told everyone to get down in regards to the whole Fire, Water, and Electricity combinations = an explosion. (In case you don't recall that scene, it's because 4Kids cut the scene out when they localized the film.). Besides, what did May do with Manaphy, anyways? I mean, she didn't battle with it (which is what the fanbase thinks of when they say "doing anything" in regards to a character.). And even IF Ash is the main character, the template already listed Brock, Misty, May, Dawn, and even the likes of Tracey, Max, and Todd as main characters, so either way, he's not THE main character (He's only A main character.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 20:55, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
::Again I state, as long as Ash keeps appearing in every episode in the main anime, he is the main character. Once he gets replaced, at least for a few episodes, then I will agree with you. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 08:17, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

== The reason ==

The reason why Brock, Tracey, and Misty had information about them getting replaced is because a staff member from the show actually explained the situation. The Dawn replacing Ash thing is all fan speculation and no one from the show EVER said that they were considering replacing Ash. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 21:52, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
:So What?! The GSDS article was still fan speculation in and of itself, and yet you freely chose to keep it on despite that. Heck, the whole Misty issue was actually placed into Misty's article BEFORE Masamitsu Hidaka's revalation. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 21:58, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

== Edit War ==

Thank goodness you guys somehow resolved it...under normal circumstances, you both would be blocked, depending on the amount of edits against...keep that in mind next time... [[User:Ht14|''ht'']][[User talk:Ht14|''14'']] 14:02, 25 December 2008 (UTC)
:I was just trying to put that out due to the fact that the circumstances of whether capturing them was the cause of the events of the second movie or if it was just territorial disputes (since the film implied that both were the cause.), and besides which, none of the Other times a Legendary bird was captured did a weather anamoly occur, which I pointed out with the events of Jack Walker capturing that Zapdos and riding it, as well as the fact that, other than the lake being almost a biological hazard, it's near-death didn't impact the weather. Jmath had to insist that they controlled the weather just because Lawrence III set the chain of events in motion (Even though Zapdos explicitly told Pikachu that it was conquering Fire Island, which definitely implied that Territorial disputes were a main cause of the events.) {{Unsigned|Weedle Mchairybug}}
::It doesn't matter. We resolved it. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 14:13, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

== Pokémon ==

Pokémon is not spelled "pokemon", it's "Pokémon". [[User:Chocolate|Chocolate]] ([[User talk:Chocolate|Chat with Me]]) 23:58, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
:I'm not sure if you should changed Haunter, but if you were to do it, you msut remember to chang it on Ash's page to be consistence.--[[Bulbapedia:Project Custom Sprite|☆]][[User:Tavisource|Tavis]][[User talk:Tavisource|ource]] 00:09, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

== Your trivia ==

The fact that multiple admins have reverted your edits to High Touch should be an indication that it is not needed. Please stop adding the information, as it is not relevant to anything. --[[User:PAK Man|PAK Man]] [[User talk:PAK Man|Talk]] 22:14, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

== That trivia ==

Let's put it this way...Take a small 5-6 year old kid. Ask him/her to do some advanced mathematics. Do you really expect the kid to suddenly do it. He just won't understand what you're saying to him. Does that make him disobedient??? Same with Psyduck. I don't remember any time where Psyduck actually battled with any determination to win. Its just basically clueless and once it gets a headache, it just releases its power. Chimchar also doesn't fall in the disobedient category. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 14:54, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
:It's disobedient, no matter whether it's intentional or not. Besides, if you want to get technical, Chimchar, during the events of ''[[DP081|Chim-Charred]]'', was very similar to Psyduck, and yet is also listed in it's trivia section as being the second fire type belonging to Ash that disobeyed him (and fourth of Ash's Pokemon overall to disobey him), the first being Charizard. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 15:46, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
::It's not disobedient because of ignorance, it's disobedient because of stupidity. That's different. -[[User:Sketch|Sketch]] 15:49, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
:::Were you talking to me or to Jmath? BTW, were you for the part of relocating of that trivia to it's own bit? Because it was still disobediance, therefore, Dawn's only the second main character other than Ash to have a disobedient pokemon, regardless of whether it's clueless or deliberate. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 15:51, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
::::I know I'm just getting involved because of RC watching, but my two cents is--who cares? Will this "(Character) is the (n)th person shown to have a Pokémon, in this case (whoever), disobey" format continue for ALL disobedient Pokés? If so, that seems...kinda unnecessary. -- '''[[User:evkl|evkl]]''' [[User_talk:evkl|(need to talk?)]] 15:57, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
:::::Well, I guess you might as well remove most of those things in Dawn's Trivia section, since almost half of it just compares her to some characters. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 16:03, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Read my first post. Its NOT disobedient. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 20:46, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
:Look, Obedience means following orders. It doesn't matter if the character is rebellious or just plan clueless, if they don't follow orders, they're disobedient. it's that simple. It's a moot point anyways, since Kenji-girl, one of the high ranking members of the site, has already stated that, whether he was intending to be disobedient or not, it still counted as a disobedient pokemon, and therefore, Dawn's only the second main character aside from Ash to own a Disobedient pokemon. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 20:54, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
::Could you blame a child for being disobedient for not knowing advanced mathematics??? Then why don't people punish them or something? [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 22:58, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
:::When did Ash actually punish Charizard? when did Dawn actually punish her Mamoswine? I don't recall them actually punishing their pokemon. In fact, the only character whom I would say actually punishes pokemon would be Paul. And anyways, no matter how hard you argue, unless you have another mod on your side, it's already written that Misty already owned a disobedient pokemon before Dawn ever appeared on the show (and considering how, like you, she also thought I obssess about Misty, that's saying quite a lot.) [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 23:04, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
::::Sure...Its real smart to punish powerhouses like Mamoswine and Charizard. They are going to eat you alive! And you still haven't answered my question. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 23:08, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
:::::Mamoswine is a vegetarian, so it can't eat dawn even if it wanted to (It's based off of the Wooly Mammoth, a herbivore.). You do have a good point on Charizard, though, though then again, Paul was known to punish any of his most powerful pokemon (I mean, he probably was going to do something bad to his Torterra when found oud it was teaching Ash's Grotle how to improve itself.). Anyways, I thought that question about Charizard and Mamoswine WAS my answer. either way, please stop, as Kenji-Girl had already agreed with me about the entire thing about Misty being the first main character other than Ash to own a disobedient pokemon. If you have a problem with it, take it to her. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 23:19, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

I looked up "disobedience" and it means '''willful''' refusal to follow orders. Chimchar and Psyduck both don't fall in this category. That proves your point wrong. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 23:23, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
:even still, she still agreed with me, as, willful or not, it still didn't follow orders. Again, I suggest you take the complaint to Kenji Girl, as she was the one who agreed with my views and put the thing in. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 23:25, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
::So what? We have proof that Psyduck didn't "disobey". And Kenji-girl probably didn't know the exact meaning of the word. (I didn't until I looked it up) [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 23:31, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

== Look ==

No matter how you twist it, it's still speculation. I've protected the talk page for now so it doesn't suffer anymore clutter. Now find something useful to do besides arguing with everyone. No one agrees with you. It's speculation. You can't compare speculation to fandom and fansite articles. So knock it off already. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 02:25, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
:Even IF everyone agreed with me, it's still speculation. And besides, Wikis ALSO have a code where they DON'T allow Fanwank on them. Also, Pokeshipping is still speculation, which means it shouldn't even exist on Bulbapedia. Besides, how is that confirmation from Hidaka not speculation. Heck, if I made something up in regards to my company and what we were doing, REGARDLESS if I was a CEO or not, I'm still speculating. This only proves that you don't know what speculation is, or even if you did, you're too arrogant to actually see it. I mean, heck, even you yourself bring in speculation into articles, should you be removed due to that? [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 02:31, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

:P.S. Another thing, seeing how WPM has actually BEEN with him, AND has had actual experience with the interview, it's NOT speculation. I mean, in order for it to be speculation on WPM's part, he has to not have been there, and only have heard of it. Even IF it were actually speculation, by that logic, seeing how the writers make mistakes in their judgement most of the time, even someone who works for the Pokemon Company/Gamefaqs is speculating, seeing how even they themselves don't know what's truly in store. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 02:36, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

::Why do I even waste time talking to you?
:#Shipping has its own space. We warn that it contains speculation.
:#If Hidaka actually confirmed something by speaking, such as the reason why Tracey replaced Brock, than it's not speculation. If he has a weird reaction to a question and you assume its because he's not allowed to speak of Platinum, than it is speculation. I don't care how much experience WPM has with interviewing people. He's not psychic. His thoughts are not confirmation.
:#I know what speculation is. You apparently can't tell the difference between fanon and speculation.
:#What speculation do I bring? Please show me. Not counting Shipping of course. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 02:42, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

::What are you talking about? I wasn't saying that he wasn't allowed to speak of Platinum. I was saying he didn't know about platinum. If anyone was actually saying he was not allowed to talk about Platinum, it was J-J-M. Stop crediting/blaming things on me that I didn't even do!
::And I don't care if Hidaka WAS the original director or not, What he says still counts as speculation, because he doesn't have absolute knowledge of the franchise.
::As for things like... your speculations, other than the Shipping part, you've speculated on comparisons between sonic characters and pokemon characters. Personally, I don't see why Shipping shouldn't count. I mean, if it's speculation, it's speculation, and if the rules absolutely forebade speculation, then Shipping articles shouldn't exist, period, no matter what your stance on them is. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 02:55, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
:::LOL that's what you're talking about? Those comparisons are on my USERPAGE. Userpages are NOT part of the mainspace. Neither is Shipping. Masamitsu Hidaka IS on the mainspace. Now I get it. You clearly don't know the difference between userpages and mainpages. Hey if you want to mention your speculation on whether he knew of Platinum or not, put it on your userpage. That would be acceptable. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 03:03, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
:::@Weedle-SHIPPING HAS ITS OWN SPACE. HOW MANY TIMES DOES SHE HAVE TO TELL YOU THAT? ''IT'S NOT IN THE MAINSPACE. NEITHER ARE USERSPACES''. AND TAKE AN ENGLISH CLASS! WITH ALL THOSE GRAMMATICAL MISTAKES, NO WONDER EVERYONE HATES YOU! DAMMIT FIND SOMETHING MORE CONSTRUCTIVE TO DO THAN F***ING ARGUING WITH EVERYONE, YOU...
@KG-What userpage? He doesn't even have one. [[User:Alpha Totodile|'''Alpha''']] [[User talk:Alpha Totodile|'''Totodile''']]
::::Now now, everyone, let's respect the {{bp|code of conduct|COC}}. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 00:38, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

== éééééééééééé ==

Use the '''é'''. It's Pokémon, not Pokemon. It's right there on the character palette begging to be clicked. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 00:23, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
:Remember this. I see you don't still use the é. By not using it, you cause extra work to other people correcting your grammar. Also, "dub" and "original" are not proper nouns. '''UltimateSephiroth''' ([[User:UltimateSephiroth|about me]] · [[User talk:UltimateSephiroth|chat]] · [[Special:Contributions/UltimateSephiroth|edits]]) 21:42, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

== Your grammar ==

is absolutely horrendous. The amount of times people have had to point out your grammar mistakes--the spelling of Pokémon, the difference between it's and its, and random capitalization--is absolutely ridiculous. I speak on behalf of all of the community here at Bulbapedia: it's time for you to actually heed warnings and make improvements. If any of us don't see any honest improvement with your edits, it will become a punishable offense. You must learn the rules of grammar--because the lack of proper grammar makes this site seem like it is run by a bunch of ten-year olds. ''[[User:Maverick Nate|'''Maverick''']][[User talk:Maverick Nate|'''Nate''']]'' 15:04, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

== Reverting ==

If an edit of yours is reverted, it's a bad idea to go back and undo it. If you really feel that strongly about your edits, discuss it on the talk page. Don't get into an edit war. --[[User:PAK Man|PAK Man]] [[User talk:PAK Man|Talk]] 16:24, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
:I discussed it on DP049 with other users. In fact, it happened long before the League was even planned out. But just in case, I made a response on [[Talk:DP049]], where we did have this discussion. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 16:32, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

== Norman ==

Can you tell me where Norman actually says he is supposed to be the third Gym Leader faced? In the games and in the anime, he winds up fifth in each case, and IIRC his only reference to three (see my edit to [[Badge]]) is in AG003 saying three Pokémon are needed. If he does say he's supposed to be third, I'd like to know where because I've never seen that. If my understanding is correct, Hoenn is therefore handled by Ash and his friends like all regions before it (Norman came fifth because they were "near Petalburg" again, which doesn't make sense in the games; convenience, I guess, in the anime), and Norman's Gym requirements are the only thing that stopped him challenging there first. [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 15:52, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
:That might have been a mistake (claiming he was actually supposed to be the third gym leader, I mean). But Norman DOES state in the ending of the episode that Ash was supposed to actually challenge him later on, and then points to Rustboro as being the first gym Ash should face. That would imply that there was indeed supposed to be a specific order trainers were supposed to face the gyms, at least in Hoenn. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 15:58, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
::[https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=R3vMoSgzBIM#t=1166 Here's the episode.] I set it to start at the beginning of the final segment, but you can watch it in full if you'd like. Norman NEVER said he should be challenged later on. If you can show me where he says it, then that's fine, I just don't see what you say proven in the anime. [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 16:07, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
:::This is from the summary of the episode on this website: "Later back in front of Norman's Gym, Norman explains that he's actually a Gym Leader Ash is supposed to fight later on. The first Gym he should try is the one in Rustboro City" This is right near the end. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 16:07, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
::::I'll visit there, then. Here are Norman's lines from the ending:
::::*"Your brother does know a lot about Pokémon and just might be a big help to you."
::::*"Ash, would it be too much of a bother if Max traveled along with you and May?"
::::*"I have a little something to give the both of you: a badge case to hold your winning Gym badges." (A grammar error here, too.)
::::*"And son, this is for you."
::::*"With one of those, you'll always know exactly where you are."
::::*"I suggest that you first travel to the closest Gym from here, and that's located in Rustboro City."
::::*"You do your best!"
::::Nothing about being faced later, so I'll go edit that article too. Thanks for the tip. [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 16:16, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
Never mind, that's another Website. I think I've proven that the other Website is not reliable. Do you have a link? [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 16:17, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
:Never mind again, I've edited [[AG003]]. [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 16:20, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

== Blocked ==

Weedle, you have been blocked for a duration of seven days for your edit war on [[Mewtwo Returns]]. You are well aware that edit warring is not permitted on Bulbapedia, and that the proper course of dispute resolution is to use the article's talk page to discuss the changes in dispute. Take this time to re-familiarize yourself with Bulbapedia policy. Thank you, - [[User:Kogoro|'''Kogoro''']] '''-''' [[User talk:Kogoro|'''Talk to me''']] - 22:14, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

== Pocket Monsters: The Animation ==

Can you refer to it as ''[[Pocket Monsters: The Animation]]'' so that it shows up on the wanted pages and shows that it needs to be created? Also, do you personally have a copy of the book? --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 02:04, 20 September 2015 (UTC)
:Sure thing, I'll do that in my next edit. Also, I don't personally have a copy of the book, but I do know someone who does: http://cindysuke.tumblr.com/post/34817930237/the-facts-about-pokemon-world-lol [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 02:06, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

== The Preview Button ==
Instead of editing a page several times in a row, try using the preview button to make sure your edit looks the way you want it to. It's right next to the Save Page button. Please try it out, so as not to clog up the Recent Changes. Also, if you want to edit multiple sections of the page, make sure that you click "edit this page" at the top of the page rather than editing it by section. Thanks! --'''—★[[User:Reshii|レシイラム]]''''''[[User talk:Reshii|talk]]''' 11:16, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

== TV Ratings ==

Do you have a source for that? If you do, then state the source. Don't make other users guess and think that it's BS. If the source is Dogasu, then state that you got it from Dogasu. You have been here longer the I have to know that you should always source your information.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 04:35, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

== Serebii ==

Hi! I just want to make sure you know that we cannot take any information from Serebii as it appears you have done for [[Special:Diff/2462919|this Simisear information]]. If you see something on Serebii, make sure you can source it elsewhere first, and even then make doubly and ''triply'' sure that whatever you end up writing here still does not end up copying Serebii. Again, we ''cannot'' take things from Serebii. I hope you understand. =) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 23:21, 25 June 2016 (UTC)
:[[Special:Diff/2500010|This]]... Just to hammer this home: '''''NOTHING''''' is ever to be taken from Serebii, '''''period'''''.
:So, tell me... What is your source regarding XY137? Is it just Serebii? [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 15:05, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
::Serebii made it pretty clear that it came from Newtype Magazine. Here's what it had to say of the episode:
::"'''The Newtype magazine in Japan has revealed another new episode title, this time for the fourty-fourth episodes of Pokémon XY & Z.''' These episodes is set to air on October 6th, following another week break on September 29th. This episode features Clemont helping rebuild Lumiose City Gym after the Team Flare attack.
Episode 940: We Start at Zero! Clemont's Decision!!"
::If that doesn't qualify as a source besides Serebii, I don't know what does. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 15:20, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
:::I'm honestly just disappointed, Weedle. You have been here for a good amount of years and are still making the most simplest of mistakes. Serebii does not qualify for a source, regardless of what he says. He doesn't even post an image of the magazine scan, so no, it's not clear it came from a magazine scan. Saying something does not immediately make something true if you don't show the evidence.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 15:28, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
::::Given your comment [[Special:Diff/2499984|here]], I was also curious where you got "はじまりはゼロ！シトロンの決断！"? [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 15:31, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
:::::I got it here: http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/XY137 [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 16:53, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
::::::Pokemon Wikia isn't a credible source either, because they could add that title just like you could add it here. It isn't an official website. Once there's a picture for the title, it will be posted. [[User:Playerking95|Playerking95]] ([[User talk:Playerking95|talk]]) 16:58, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
:::::::In short, keep in mind that these things should always be ''verifiable''. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 17:02, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

I'd like to add, if your only source for English translations of new episode titles is Serebii, please don't try to use that (even changed a bit) to add the episodes here. That's still basically copying Serebii. Just leave it until someone else can make an independent translation. At worst, post the sources somewhere and let someone else create the episodes with independent translations. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 17:07, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

== PokeSpe reference ==

You are not right by saying that the implication of Silver being Giovanni's son in FR/LG and the subsequent confirmation of this fact in HG/SS is a PokeSpe reference in the games. It was the games that first mentioned the fact. PokeSpe decided to make Silver Giovanni's son only in FR/LG Chapter, which was after the release of FireRed and LeafGreen. So, it is the manga that referenced the game, not the other way 'round. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 16:14, 24 August 2016 (UTC)

== New episode pages ==

When creating a new episode page, please use the {{template|New episode}} template. Otherwise, you get copy/paste errors like with what you did for [[XY138]] and [[XY139]]. Thank you. --[[User:Carmenstar97|Carmen★]] ''[[User talk:Carmenstar97|(Talk |]] [[Special:Contributions/Carmenstar97|contribs)]]'' 13:33, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

== Linking moves ==

Whenever you're linking to a move article, it's important to use the <nowiki>{{m}}</nowiki> template, as shown, to avoid using redirects. For example, <nowiki>{{m|Dark Void}}</nowiki> is the correct usage, not <nowiki>[[Dark Void]]</nowiki>. Just so you know. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 00:16, 30 September 2018 (UTC)

== English Celebi ==

Are you playing a game set to the Japanese language or a system and game from the Japanese region? I have doubts about Celebi having English text for the Japanese region. '''[[User:Lady Ariel|Lady]] [[User talk:Lady Ariel|Ariel]]''' 02:00, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
:I'm playing an English game set to the English language and I downloaded the game from the Nintendo eShop channel on the English Nintendo 3DS. Nothing Japanese at all regarding the game (well, aside from it in general was originally made in Japan, I mean.). I also managed to [https://otnesse.tumblr.com/post/179272822979/proof-that-the-wondercard-description-is-in photograph] it as well. Sorry for it being low quality, but I'm not sure how to get it directly from the game a'la Serebii.net. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 10:01, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
:EDIT: Sorry, now I see what was going on. Shouldn't have done that, dang it. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 10:03, 21 October 2018 (UTC)

== Link templates ==

Hey! I'm going to have to encourage you to read the site's {{bp|list of link templates}} again. Using <nowiki>{{an|Rotom Pokédex}}</nowiki> or simply <nowiki>{{Rotom}}</nowiki> is highly encouraged, not <nowiki>[[Rotom Pokédex (anime)|Rotom]]</nowiki>. Thank you. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 20:24, 6 October 2019 (UTC)

== Using Serebii as a source ==

Once again, you are using Serebii as a source when you know full well that he is not a valid source. It doesn't matter if he's right, just do no use his site as your source. Period. Your source should be the official Japanese site, not someone repeating what the Japanese site is saying.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 13:49, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

== "Advantage" ==

While I acknowlege some of your Team Rocket vs. Caterpie argument, "advantage" doesn't mean that Ash was guaranteed to beat Misty; it simply means that he was objectively in a favorable situation prior to the battle being interrupted (and since this was acknowledged by both Trainers, it's not simply speculation). I decided to rewrite that particular part entirely anyway, but I just wanted to clarify that. In the future, please try to use the talk page instead of edit warring (although I admittedly shouldn't have made that last revert either, so I apologize for that).

Additionally, I never claimed that you were being biased: I actually think you removing the previous wording of "about to win the battle" was the right decision, hence why I decided to try slightly rewording it instead. However, if you're going to say things like "regardless of my views on Misty", "even IF I believed Ash was owed a genuine win", and "my own personal views on the match were irrelevant"... of course I'm going to begin to question if you're truly attempting to be impartial here (especially given your history of Misty-related edits over the past 15 years). [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 10:18, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

:Fine, I'll grant you that much regarding your points, and that your wording was better. Though to be fair, Caterpie was also in extremely low health at that time as well thanks to its earlier near-death against Pidgeotto and... well, you know the rest of that battle and how it turned out for everyone involved (and it was also fairly explicit that it was weak even before the fight against Pidgeotto, much less Team Rocket. After Ash's attempt at capturing Pidgeotto outright without weakening it first just resulted in it escaping easily, Misty reminded him that he needed to battle it first, and also specifically stated the only reason Caterpie got easily captured without a fight was because it was already weak beforehand). I might be fanatically loyal to Misty, I'll admit that much, but I still would have avoided using "advantage" even if I had the exact opposite emotional views of Misty (and in fact, back when I was still on Bulbagarden and the discussion popped up whether Ash or Misty would have won, I gave pretty firm arguments why it wasn't necessarily confirmed Ash was going to win, and made it very clear that my being a Misty fan had absolutely nothing to do with my rationale, and that if anything my rationale actually was tied far more to something that happened with Ash than it ever did with Misty and then cited that particular battle. Granted, PDL pretty much mocked my argument when I cited that battle, but still...). Yes, it's true that Starmie was explicitly low on health, but it's also true that it was still close enough to the water's edge that it merely needed to hop back in and regenerate, though it might need a bit more effort to pull it off. And I mostly had to mention that stuff repeatedly in case someone DID try to accuse me of being biased towards Misty due to past experiences on Serebii, Pokecommunity, and BMGf where they did repeatedly do that. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 02:50, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
::A bit late on this one to reply (eh, still less than 6 months), but your talk page comment for Misty's Starmie (which I replied to, but I figured it would be appropriate to go into a bit more detail here) got me to rewatch EP007 in both Japanese and English, and I believe you misremembered Staryu's situation. What Staryu was actually doing when it dived into the water was negating the usage of Stun Spore and Sleep Powder (kind of similar to Natural Cure, but with water rather than switching out), not healing itself, so the argument that Starmie could still regenerate itself in the water doesn't really hold up. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 22:46, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
:::I didn't actually mention Staryu at all in that argument (my main focus was Starmie, and if anything I didn't even CONSIDER Staryu's earlier dive into the water to alleviate itself of Stun Spore.), and for the record, Starmie's core wasn't even damaged (ie, it didn't crack. The blinking light simply meant it was low on health), which is the only way it won't be able to heal at all barring maybe a Pokemon Center. And even if we were to somehow use that rationale for how it doesn't hold up, Bye Bye Butterfree made it very explicit that Starmie (and presumably Staryu) most certainly can heal itself (and by that, I specifically mean heal its HP back upwards, not simply negating a status effect) when exposed to water, at least as long as its core was intact (there was a scene during Ash, Misty and Brock's confrontation with Team Rocket over the poached Butterfree where James used a sledgehammer on Starmie, landed a direct hit on it and sent it flying into a wall, causing it to slump down in a similar manner to its situation in Waterflowers of Cerulean City, then Misty grabbed a water cannon (presumably from within Team Rocket's hideout) and proceeded to spray a torrent on it, and then it came right back to full strength). And that's not even getting into how Starmie's Pokedex entries back then make it explicit that it can regenerate as long as its core remains intact. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 09:36, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
::::"''I didn't actually mention Staryu at all in that argument (my main focus was Starmie, and if anything I didn't even CONSIDER Staryu's earlier dive into the water to alleviate itself of Stun Spore.)''"
::::You may not have mentioned Staryu, but [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=EP007&diff=3592528&oldid=3592393 you stated here that Starmie could recover by jumping into the pool], which is what Staryu did earlier to negate Stun Spore/Sleep Powder, so I don't feel like it was unreasonable for me to assume that you used Staryu as a basis for that. If that's not the case, then I apologize.
::::"''For the record, Starmie's core wasn't even damaged (ie, it didn't crack. The blinking light simply meant it was low on health), which is the only way it won't be able to heal at all barring maybe a Pokemon Center.''"
::::I'm pretty sure my stance from the very beginning was simply that Starmie was in an objectively disadvantageous position. I never mentioned anything about its core cracking.
::::"''And even if we were to somehow use that rationale for how it doesn't hold up, Bye Bye Butterfree made it very explicit that Starmie (and presumably Staryu) most certainly can heal itself (and by that, I specifically mean heal its HP back upwards, not simply negating a status effect) when exposed to water, at least as long as its core was intact (there was a scene during Ash, Misty and Brock's confrontation with Team Rocket over the poached Butterfree where James used a sledgehammer on Starmie, landed a direct hit on it and sent it flying into a wall, causing it to slump down in a similar manner to its situation in Waterflowers of Cerulean City, then Misty grabbed a water cannon (presumably from within Team Rocket's hideout) and proceeded to spray a torrent on it, and then it came right back to full strength).''"
::::Bit of a sidenote, but it was Jessie that used the sledgehammer. As for the rest: I mentioned this on the talk page for Misty's Starmie as well, but I don't think using future episodes is the greatest counterargument. There are many instances of Pokémon displaying a certain trait for the sake of the progression of the episode, only for it to never be used again (which I'm pretty sure is also what happened here as well).
::::"''And that's not even getting into how Starmie's Pokedex entries back then make it explicit that it can regenerate as long as its core remains intact.''"
::::Those are Staryu's Pokédex entries you're thinking of, which is specifically for lost appendages rather than fully healing itself.
::::My main issue with your argument is that it's built too much on theoretical scenarios rather than what was actually presented within the episode itself. Sure, it's true that Starmie didn't "lose", but I never claimed that it did. I only stated that it was in an disadvantageous situation, which was acknowledged within the episode itself.
::::Also, you mentioned earlier that people have called you biased on Serebii, PokeCommunity, and the Bulbagarden forums. I only say this to try to offer some constructive criticism, but if there are three separate communities saying the same thing, I fear that there may be some truth within their words. If your initial talk page post on Misty's Starmie had been something like "Misty didn't really lose since the battle was interrupted, but I agree that it needs to be rewritten", I would completely understand. Instead, your post contained a fairly lengthy paragraph about the exact circumstances of the battle, theoretical ways in which the battle could have progressed, and a comparison to a separate episode. I feel like that's a bit much considering Temari44 only mentioned the Gym battle in a small part of their post. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 11:55, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
:::::"''You may not have mentioned Staryu, but [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=EP007&diff=3592528&oldid=3592393 you stated here that Starmie could recover by jumping into the pool], which is what Staryu did earlier to negate Stun Spore/Sleep Powder, so I don't feel like it was unreasonable for me to assume that you used Staryu as a basis for that. If that's not the case, then I apologize.''"
:::::I guess you could say Staryu might have been a factor, but even without Staryu, the episode Bye Bye Butterfree already made clear it can fully heal from being exposed to water. And that's not even getting into how Generation III later had Staryu and Starmie have an ability to outright heal from water type attacks (and it wouldn't be the first time they did abilities for Pokemon based on an earlier episode. See Rhydon and it having Lightning Rod as an ability in a direct reference to the infamous Aim for the Horn situation during Blaine's Gym Battle).
:::::"''I'm pretty sure my stance from the very beginning was simply that Starmie was in an objectively disadvantageous position. I never mentioned anything about its core cracking.''"
:::::It still would have been a definite factor in whether or not Starmie would have been in a disadvantageous situation or not (and I define "disadvantageous" as "absolutely no way to get out of trouble", not "small chance of getting out of trouble" but "literally 0% chance"). The only time where being exposed to water DIDN'T heal it was during the battle against Giselle when it was knocked into the pool (which, BTW, the person specifically referenced and I even agreed with him), and even there it was explicitly shown that Starmie's core had been smashed beforehand (which actually backs up its Pokedex entry if anything). If they wanted to actually indicate Misty was inevitably going to lose, they should have made sure to have Starmie's core explicitly crack from impact and then flash to imply that the core was damaged and thus cannot heal. And I realize full well they acknowledged it was that, but that unfortunately isn't enough since I've seen plenty of instances where they outright state an opponent is at a disadvantage with the person winning attempting to press the attack, only for the winning individual to end up defeated at the last second (like Tealc's fight against that fake Jaffah rebel leader for example, or to keep it contained to Pokemon like how Caterpie defeated Jessie and James, heck, how Ash turned the tide against Jessie during his Viridian Gym Match), or otherwise it being made clear afterwards that they weren't in any danger and just trying to increase drama [the latter bit I'm specifically thinking of how Gotenks in an attempt at staging a dramatic finish exaggerated how Super Buu is cleaning his clock, only for Piccolo to take it seriously and seal the Hyperbolic Time Chamber and it then being revealed after the fact that Gotenks was actually bluffing about losing meaning Piccolo blew up the entrance for nothing].). I would have said the same thing if it were Ash and Pidgeotto in their shoes (well, okay, maybe not quite to that level since unlike Starmie, Pidgeotto doesn't heal from absorbing water).
:::::"''Bit of a sidenote, but it was Jessie that used the sledgehammer. As for the rest: I mentioned this on the talk page for Misty's Starmie as well, but I don't think using future episodes is the greatest counterargument. There are many instances of Pokémon displaying a certain trait for the sake of the progression of the episode, only for it to never be used again (which I'm pretty sure is also what happened here as well).''"
:::::Fine, I stand corrected regarding who used the sledgehammer, but my point still stands. And for the record, what you used as a counterargument is a very bad argument in itself, since I can easily use that exact argument to just shut down the wiki altogether and delete all articles precisely BECAUSE they do progression and never bring it up again, thus can't qualify as facts, thus can't allow for an encyclopedia or even summaries (I'm an all or nothing kind of guy). Either way, the fact that Staryu and Starmie later on got Water Absorb would indicate they thought specifically of that scene when deciding on those abilities for them (similar to Rhydon having Lightning Rod), so more likely than not it has that ability. Heck, Misty's Starmie's article even specifically noted that it carried at the very least a similar ability to Water Absorb and cited that particular scene.
:::::"''Those are Staryu's Pokédex entries you're thinking of, which is specifically for lost appendages rather than fully healing itself.''"
:::::Being the evolved form of Staryu, I'm pretty sure Starmie probably retained that ability. Heck, its article even indicated it had regenerative abilities as well.
:::::"''My main issue with your argument is that it's built too much on theoretical scenarios rather than what was actually presented within the episode itself. Sure, it's true that Starmie didn't "lose", but I never claimed that it did. I only stated that it was in an disadvantageous situation, which was acknowledged within the episode itself.''"
:::::As I stated above, the problem is that there have been plenty of instances where they stated they were in a disadvantageous situation in an episode or even a game (both inside the Pokemon anime and even in other franchises), yet the person at a disadvantage outright prevailed against the superior opponent, so that unfortunately isn't even enough to acknowledge that bit (as when I think of disadvantageous situations, I specifically have in mind instances where there's no way to get out of trouble, and by "no way" I mean literally 0% chance of survivability, let alone prevailing.). That's why I still think the situation was very ambiguous ESPECIALLY given Starmie's later being revealed to have a similar ability to Water Absorb during the events of Bye Bye Butterfree. Heck, if anything, Ash's Caterpie came far closer to actually BEING in an explicit disadvantageous situation when he fought Ekans, Koffing, and Meowth due to having the entire deck stacked against him (aside from the illegal at the time 2-on-1 match that Team Rocket forced Ash into, their Ekans and Koffing had significantly more experience than it, plus the fact that both were Poison-types, which gave them a type advantage over his bug-type status, and they had even managed to easily take out Ash's Pidgeotto, who at that time nearly made Caterpie its lunch thanks largely to Ash's stupidity earlier, and that's not even getting into how it was close to fainting by that point thanks to that earlier battle, and even without the Pidgeotto battle was weak enough that Ash didn't even need to battle it just to capture it. Note that I said "came far closer to", not actually WAS a disadvantageous situation, because ultimately Caterpie prevailed).
:::::"''Also, you mentioned earlier that people have called you biased on Serebii, PokeCommunity, and the Bulbagarden forums. I only say this to try to offer some constructive criticism, but if there are three separate communities saying the same thing, I fear that there may be some truth within their words. If your initial talk page post on Misty's Starmie had been something like "Misty didn't really lose since the battle was interrupted, but I agree that it needs to be rewritten", I would completely understand. Instead, your post contained a fairly lengthy paragraph about the exact circumstances of the battle, theoretical ways in which the battle could have progressed, and a comparison to a separate episode. I feel like that's a bit much considering Temari44 only mentioned the Gym battle in a small part of their post.''"
:::::Hey, I tend to get very detailed in my replies. It's basically a quirk of mine due to both my aspergers and also my parents specifically demanding I get more detailed in my answers rather than saying "just because", "I felt like it", or even going extremely general about who "they" are when I say "people". As far as that big about Bulbapedia, Pokecommunity, and Serebii.net, usually it's just the same people who happen to be members of all three sites, and either way, just because three entities claim something doesn't necessarily make it true. Just ask the coverage about the Vietnam War by the major networks. All showed the worst aspects about Vietnam, yet it eventually came to light that all of them, especially the so-called "most trusted man in America" Walter Cronkite, were extremely biased against the war and in Cronkite's case may have even up and out lied through his teeth during the Tet offensive. A similar story can be shown with the Trayvon Martin case. And I only replied in that sense because he specifically said that Misty lost that battle (and I wasn't even disagreeing with his overall argument that Misty's Starmie was weak. If anything, I fully agreed with his argument, including its loss against Giselle's Graveler, and only had a minor quibble with Misty's Starmie being stated to have lost the Cerulean Gym battle, and that's only because there was literally nothing to suggest it lost before Team Rocket interfered.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 21:36, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
::::::"''I guess you could say Staryu might have been a factor, but even without Staryu, the episode Bye Bye Butterfree already made clear it can fully heal from being exposed to water. And that's not even getting into how Generation III later had Staryu and Starmie have an ability to outright heal from water type attacks (and it wouldn't be the first time they did abilities for Pokemon based on an earlier episode. See Rhydon and it having Lightning Rod as an ability in a direct reference to the infamous Aim for the Horn situation during Blaine's Gym Battle).''"
::::::Neither Staryu nor Starmie have Water Absorb as a possible Ability.
::::::"''It still would have been a definite factor in whether or not Starmie would have been in a disadvantageous situation or not (and I define "disadvantageous" as "absolutely no way to get out of trouble", not "small chance of getting out of trouble" but "literally 0% chance").''"
::::::The definition of disadvantage is "an unfavorable circumstance or condition that reduces the chances of success or effectiveness"; it does ''not'' mean "0% chance of prevailing". Misty's Starmie was explicitly stated to be low on energy (but not actually knocked out), which means it was at a disadvantage.
::::::"''The only time where being exposed to water DIDN'T heal it was during the battle against Giselle when it was knocked into the pool (which, BTW, the person specifically referenced and I even agreed with him), and even there it was explicitly shown that Starmie's core had been smashed beforehand (which actually backs up its Pokedex entry if anything).''"
::::::I'm fairly sure that this "water healing" attribute was only ever displayed once in EP021. I don't think it makes a lot of sense to say "the only time where being exposed to water DIDN'T heal it" when it only happened ''once''.
::::::"''If they wanted to actually indicate Misty was inevitably going to lose, they should have made sure to have Starmie's core explicitly crack from impact and then flash to imply that the core was damaged and thus cannot heal. And I realize full well they acknowledged it was that, but that unfortunately isn't enough since I've seen plenty of instances where they outright state an opponent is at a disadvantage with the person winning attempting to press the attack, only for the winning individual to end up defeated at the last second (like Tealc's fight against that fake Jaffah rebel leader for example, or to keep it contained to Pokemon like how Caterpie defeated Jessie and James, heck, how Ash turned the tide against Jessie during his Viridian Gym Match), or otherwise it being made clear afterwards that they weren't in any danger and just trying to increase drama [the latter bit I'm specifically thinking of how Gotenks in an attempt at staging a dramatic finish exaggerated how Super Buu is cleaning his clock, only for Piccolo to take it seriously and seal the Hyperbolic Time Chamber and it then being revealed after the fact that Gotenks was actually bluffing about losing meaning Piccolo blew up the entrance for nothing].). I would have said the same thing if it were Ash and Pidgeotto in their shoes (well, okay, maybe not quite to that level since unlike Starmie, Pidgeotto doesn't heal from absorbing water).''"
::::::Again, a disadvantage is not an unwinnable situation. I also don't think the Gotenks situation is comparable since it was made clear to the readers/viewers that he was faking it even before Piccolo destroyed the door (and truth be told, Gotenks ultimately ''did'' fail to beat Super Buu because he's an idiot and refused to actually take the fight seriously until much later). [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 22:59, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
::::::"''Fine, I stand corrected regarding who used the sledgehammer, but my point still stands. And for the record, what you used as a counterargument is a very bad argument in itself, since I can easily use that exact argument to just shut down the wiki altogether and delete all articles precisely BECAUSE they do progression and never bring it up again, thus can't qualify as facts, thus can't allow for an encyclopedia or even summaries (I'm an all or nothing kind of guy).''"
::::::I'm sorry, but I feel like this is a huge stretch. My argument is based on information specifically presented in the episode itself, while yours is theorizing on how Misty could still make a comeback based on information ''not'' presented in the episode. I don't see how Starmie displaying a one-time attribute of being rejuvenated from a water blast in a later episode should be used as an argument for the Gym battle; Misty never said anything like "If I can just get Starmie into the water, I still have a chance".
::::::"''Either way, the fact that Staryu and Starmie later on got Water Absorb would indicate they thought specifically of that scene when deciding on those abilities for them (similar to Rhydon having Lightning Rod), so more likely than not it has that ability. Heck, Misty's Starmie's article even specifically noted that it carried at the very least a similar ability to Water Absorb and cited that particular scene.''""
::::::Just to reiterate: '''Neither Staryu nor Starmie have Water Absorb as a possible Ability'''. Their regular abilities are Illuminate and Natural Cure, along with gaining Analytic as a Hidden Ability starting with Gen V.
::::::"''Being the evolved form of Staryu, I'm pretty sure Starmie probably retained that ability. Heck, its article even indicated it had regenerative abilities as well.''"
::::::Again, this is used in the context of lost body parts. It's certainly not something like an immediate healing factor.
::::::"''As I stated above, the problem is that there have been plenty of instances where they stated they were in a disadvantageous situation in an episode or even a game (both inside the Pokemon anime and even in other franchises), yet the person at a disadvantage outright prevailed against the superior opponent, so that unfortunately isn't even enough to acknowledge that bit (as when I think of disadvantageous situations, I specifically have in mind instances where there's no way to get out of trouble, and by "no way" I mean literally 0% chance of survivability, let alone prevailing.). That's why I still think the situation was very ambiguous ESPECIALLY given Starmie's later being revealed to have a similar ability to Water Absorb during the events of Bye Bye Butterfree. Heck, if anything, Ash's Caterpie came far closer to actually BEING in an explicit disadvantageous situation when he fought Ekans, Koffing, and Meowth due to having the entire deck stacked against him (aside from the illegal at the time 2-on-1 match that Team Rocket forced Ash into, their Ekans and Koffing had significantly more experience than it, plus the fact that both were Poison-types, which gave them a type advantage over his bug-type status, and they had even managed to easily take out Ash's Pidgeotto, who at that time nearly made Caterpie its lunch thanks largely to Ash's stupidity earlier, and that's not even getting into how it was close to fainting by that point thanks to that earlier battle, and even without the Pidgeotto battle was weak enough that Ash didn't even need to battle it just to capture it. Note that I said "came far closer to", not actually WAS a disadvantageous situation, because ultimately Caterpie prevailed).''"
::::::Again, a disadvantage is not an unwinnable situation, just a situation that is harder to win from. There's nothing wrong with saying that Starmie was at a disadvantage, since that's what was displayed and stated within the episode itself.
::::::"''Hey, I tend to get very detailed in my replies. It's basically a quirk of mine due to both my aspergers and also my parents specifically demanding I get more detailed in my answers rather than saying "just because", "I felt like it", or even going extremely general about who "they" are when I say "people". As far as that big about Bulbapedia, Pokecommunity, and Serebii.net, usually it's just the same people who happen to be members of all three sites, and either way, just because three entities claim something doesn't necessarily make it true. '''Just ask the coverage about the Vietnam War by the major networks. All showed the worst aspects about Vietnam, yet it eventually came to light that all of them, especially the so-called "most trusted man in America" Walter Cronkite, were extremely biased against the war and in Cronkite's case may have even up and out lied through his teeth during the Tet offensive. A similar story can be shown with the Trayvon Martin case.'''''"
::::::This is an ''extreme'' comparison. One person's conduct on the Internet in regards to a fictional character from an anime is not at all equivalent to '''war or murder'''. At the very least, it's undeniable that a lot of conflict that you've run into on these sites are related to Misty (honestly, I can just look at earlier posts on this very talk page even before this particular discussion started). It's one thing to claim that you're not being biased and another to actually showcase that you're not being biased. You even admitted earlier that you're "fanatically loyal to Misty". [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 22:59, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
:::::::If I were to be biased regarding Misty, I'd have rewritten every loss she had to be eradicated and thus indicated she never lost (either that, or if I genuinely hated Misty, rewrite everything to outright EXAGGERATE her loss ratio to imply she has a similarly bad track record to Team Rocket). Not only did I not do that, I actually agreed with the guy who tried to defend Starmie's overall track record that the Giselle bit WAS indeed a loss (a story-required loss, yes, but a loss nonetheless, and if I agreed that the Giselle bit was a loss, that is indeed showcasing I'm NOT biased. Someone who truly IS biased towards Misty in terms of liking her would never agree to her having a single loss at all). No, I'm not being biased, even if I do have fanatical loyalty to Misty (someone who's truly biased would literally rewrite the entire wiki to either avoid listing any, and I do mean literally ANY flaws she might have, or exaggerate her flaws to such a degree that they come across as the absolute worst person to ever live). Heck, I have an absolute hatred of May and to a lesser extent Dawn, yet you don't see me editing their articles to paint them in the absolute worst light imaginable (which WOULD be the very definition of bias, BTW). If anything, I AM attempting to be VERY objective in my edits especially regarding Misty. Also, a huge amount of stuff on here literally only happened in single episodes, or so few episodes that they barely even matter, yet they're still noted as actually having happened as if they had any importance, so that's far from a rebuttal regarding whether or not Starmie could indeed heal from it (and once is more than enough to indicate it would happen). I might as well also point out that I focus on the connections between generalities and details, so I DON'T limit myself to whether it's demonstrated in a single episode or not. Otherwise, Ash's Ho-Oh connection is meaningless since they never bring it up since the beginning of DP, and his Aura abilities also only showed up a few times in DP. And I do agree ultimately Misty's Starmie was weakened, but we have no conclusive proof that it would have lost, period, hence why I tried to rewrite it the way I did earlier as that's the only actual way to write it. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 02:13, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
::::::::Everything that you're describing is simply bias taken to the logical extreme (i.e. to the point of being completely unreasonable), which is an exaggeration and doesn't actually disprove whether or not you're partial to Misty (which I think is fairly obvious at this point). Again, what's important in this instance is the info presented in the episode itself, which is less speculatory than thinking of ways that Misty "could" win or not. Again, I never said she actually lost. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 03:27, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

== Pokémon ==

When writing "Pokémon" or "Poké", don't forget to write the "e" as "é". Also, the word "Trainer" is capitalized. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 00:06, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

== Sensational Sisters ==

There's no indication in Japanese or English that Misty "quit" being a Gym Leader; she simply says that she left her sisters in charge of the Gym. Please don't just plainly revert me and discuss things on the talk page first. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 12:13, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
:I watched both Japanese with Subs and the English dub with Closed Captioning, and this is what she says when the topic is brought up:
:"When I saw you [Satoshi] battling, I just couldn’t sit still! So I left Hanada Gym to my sisters and set off on a journey."
:"After watching your [Ash's] battle, I just couldn't stay still a second longer! And so, I left the [Cerulean] Gym with my sisters in charge, and started a journey!"
:And while it's true that it doesn't use the exact word "quit" in there, it's pretty clear that's what's being implied especially when past episodes have made it clear that you can't engage in a Pokemon Journey while you're a Gym Leader (in fact, such a restraint was made explicit as early as [[EP005|Showdown at Pewter City]] from both Flint AND Brock, and I think Candace and Zoey both alluded to this restraint in that episode of Diamond and Pearl.). Besides, no one talks like that about a position they simply were on temporary leave from (I sure don't). That sounds more like the kind of talk a guy gives when he's about to quit his job for a better one. A good contrast would be her reappearance in Alola (second one) where she explicitly stated that a major part of why she went to Alola besides visiting Ash was to take a break from the swarms of Gym Challengers that were arriving. Either way, she definitely never mentioned the gym at all in JN147, much less resuming gym duties (the most we got was Brock eagerly telling Misty to say hi to her sisters for him before Croagunk toxic stabbed him), and considering most instances she either explicitly mentions she has to resume gym duties when she departs (Mirage Kingdom Arc, the Kanto, Alola arc) or otherwise its made very clear she had to resume Gym Duties (beginning of Battle Frontier where Daisy basically called Misty and threatened to hand badges out again if she didn't return, Mastermind as well since it's made explicit she was only there due to being invited alongside Oak and was most likely going to return to the Gym afterward), the fact that she makes absolutely NO mention of gym duties at all means she most likely wasn't going back to being a Gym Leader that time. Let's not forget, Brock also returned to Pewter City in the same episode, and he's repeatedly stated to no longer be a Gym Leader and thus obviously wasn't going to be resuming gym duties. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 12:29, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
::Most of what you've outlined is your own headcanon with no real proof that she quit being a Gym Leader, which you also just admitted to.
::''"I watched both Japanese with Subs and the English dub with Closed Captioning, and this is what she says when the topic is brought up:''
::''"When I saw you [Satoshi] battling, I just couldn’t sit still! So I left Hanada Gym to my sisters and set off on a journey."''
::''"After watching your [Ash's] battle, I just couldn't stay still a second longer! And so, I left the [Cerulean] Gym with my sisters in charge, and started a journey!"''
::Yes, I also watched both. Again, there's no mention of her quitting.
::"''And while it's true that it doesn't use the exact word "quit" in there, it's pretty clear that's what's being implied especially when past episodes have made it clear that you can't engage in a Pokemon Journey while you're a Gym Leader (in fact, such a restraint was made explicit as early as [[EP005|Showdown at Pewter City]] from both Flint AND Brock, and I think Candace and Zoey both alluded to this restraint in that episode of Diamond and Pearl.).''"
::I'm pretty sure that you just can't leave a Gym '''unattended''' without another Gym Leader looking after it. Brock was able to leave on a journey after leaving Pewter Gym in Flint's care (and Lt. Surge also left Vermilion Gym in Visquez's care while he went on his own journey). Both Flint and Brock were considered official Gym Leaders even as late as DPS02.
::"''Besides, no one talks like that about a position they simply were on temporary leave from (I sure don't). That sounds more like the kind of talk a guy gives when he's about to quit his job for a better one. A good contrast would be her reappearance in Alola (second one) where she explicitly stated that a major part of why she went to Alola besides visiting Ash was to take a break from the swarms of Gym Challengers that were arriving.''"
::Firstly, you can't claim that "no one talks like that about a position they simply were on temporary leave from" when plenty of people watched that episode without ever getting the impression that she "quit". Secondly, this is speculation.
::"''Either way, she definitely never mentioned the gym at all in JN147, much less resuming gym duties (the most we got was Brock eagerly telling Misty to say hi to her sisters for him before Croagunk toxic stabbed him), and considering most instances she either explicitly mentions she has to resume gym duties when she departs (Mirage Kingdom Arc, the Kanto, Alola arc) or otherwise its made very clear she had to resume Gym Duties (beginning of Battle Frontier where Daisy basically called Misty and threatened to hand badges out again if she didn't return, Mastermind as well since it's made explicit she was only there due to being invited alongside Oak and was most likely going to return to the Gym afterward), the fact that she makes absolutely NO mention of gym duties at all means she most likely wasn't going back to being a Gym Leader that time. Let's not forget, Brock also returned to Pewter City in the same episode, and he's repeatedly stated to no longer be a Gym Leader and thus obviously wasn't going to be resuming gym duties.''"
::Most of this is speculation (outside of her not mentioning resuming Gym Leader duties). However, my reworded edit didn't say that she resumed her duties, just that her sisters look after the Gym when she's away.
::I also maintain that you should not have reverted me twice before going to the talk page. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 13:16, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
:::Actually, Brock was repeatedly considered an ex-Gym Leader/Former Gym Leader by the Alola, Kanto arc (more specifically, the episode where Brock and Misty show them the ropes at Cerulean Gym regarding gym battles), which was well after the events of DPS02. I'd know, I watched it on PokemonTV when it came out with closed captioning. Even made particular note about that bit. Only Misty was specifically stated to be an actual current Gym Leader in that episode. And last I checked, Giovanni didn't explicitly make Jessie, James and Meowth Gym Leaders (they merely assumed they became Gym Leaders) and if anything his orders to them made it sound as though he specifically wanted them to guard against a possible attack on the Gym ("Use these [Pokemon] in the event of an emergency!"). And as far as Lt. Surge is concerned, quite frankly, ESPECIALLY after Brock was explicitly considered a former Gym Leader, ie, one who is no longer a gym leader at all, that means Lt. Surge isn't a gym leader by that point either (besides, Flint's not even a Gym Leader anymore, Forrest is, and most certainly was an official one by DPS02.). And the whole "unattended" issue is its own problem since, ignoring how Giovanni's apparently running Team Rocket without actually BEING at the gym prior to Battle of the Badge (afterwards, he most likely quit the position), we had Fantina being absent from the gym for a good long while, being absent TWICE, in fact, both times when Ash tried to challenge her, and didn't even get a slap on the wrist for it, much less had her gym priviledges revoked for it. And I still stand by my statement that there's no way Misty would say something like that if she wasn't quitting the position. And BTW, that stuff I described wasn't headcanon. That was evidence directly from the episode and related episodes. Want to know what ACTUAL headcanon is? Misty's parents being murdered by Team Rocket members and her nearly being killed by them as a baby, and then being adopted by the Sensational Sisters, stuff that had literally no basis whatsoever from the series and something I made up in its entirety (and yes, I actually DID write that as a fanfic). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 13:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
::::"''Actually, Brock was repeatedly considered an ex-Gym Leader/Former Gym Leader by the Alola, Kanto arc (more specifically, the episode where Brock and Misty show them the ropes at Cerulean Gym regarding gym battles), which was well after the events of DPS02. I'd know, I watched it on PokemonTV when it came out with closed captioning. Even made particular note about that bit. Only Misty was specifically stated to be an actual current Gym Leader in that episode.''"
::::None of this has any relevance to what I was talking about.
::::"''And last I checked, Giovanni didn't explicitly make Jessie, James and Meowth Gym Leaders (they merely assumed they became Gym Leaders) and if anything his orders to them made it sound as though he specifically wanted them to guard against a possible attack on the Gym ("Use these [Pokemon] in the event of an emergency!").''"
::::I never even brought up Viridian Gym since its circumstances are much different from other Gyms.
::::"''And as far as Lt. Surge is concerned, quite frankly, ESPECIALLY after Brock was explicitly considered a former Gym Leader, ie, one who is no longer a gym leader at all, that means Lt. Surge isn't a gym leader by that point either (besides, Flint's not even a Gym Leader anymore, Forrest is, and most certainly was an official one by DPS02.). And the whole "unattended" issue is its own problem since, ignoring how Giovanni's apparently running Team Rocket without actually BEING at the gym prior to Battle of the Badge (afterwards, he most likely quit the position), we had Fantina being absent from the gym for a good long while, being absent TWICE, in fact, both times when Ash tried to challenge her, and didn't even get a slap on the wrist for it, much less had her gym priviledges revoked for it.''"
::::First of all, Visquez is referred to outright as a substitute Gym Leader for Lt. Surge, meaning Lt. Surge is definitely still a Gym Leader. This leads to my second point...
::::You're quite mistaken on several things regarding the status of the Pewter Gym Leader, as well as the restrictions on Gym Leaders traveling. Brock left Pewter Gym to Flint in order to travel with Ash for a lengthy amount of time and was STILL considered an official Gym Leader by DPS02 as far as the Pokémon Inspection Agency was concerned. The Nurse Joy from said agency explicitly refused to battle Forrest at first, and would only accept a battle from Brock or Flint (meaning that Flint was ''also'' still considered an official Gym Leader). While Forrest had been conducting Gym battles prior to this, he was not the ''official'' Gym Leader since Flint never delivered the paperwork to officiate the change, and only obtained the title during the events of the episode itself.
::::Between Brock leaving Pewter Gym to Flint (again, both of them still had their titles by DPS02), Lt. Surge leaving Vermilion Gym to Visquez, and Clemont leaving Lumiose Gym to Clembot, there's no indication that Gym Leaders will lose their titles just because they decided to travel, provided that someone is running the Gym (and even then, Fantina was never penalized for being absent, as you've already mentioned). Even Misty already had the title of Gym Leader prior to the beginning of the series.
::::"''And I still stand by my statement that there's no way Misty would say something like that if she wasn't quitting the position.''"
::::Literally nothing about her dialogue indicates that she "quit". I have no idea why you're so convinced otherwise.
::::"''And BTW, that stuff I described wasn't headcanon. That was evidence directly from the episode and related episodes. Want to know what ACTUAL headcanon is? Misty's parents being murdered by Team Rocket members and her nearly being killed by them as a baby, and then being adopted by the Sensational Sisters, stuff that had literally no basis whatsoever from the series and something I made up in its entirety (and yes, I actually DID write that as a fanfic).''"
::::Your personal interpretation of events is still headcanon. I don't know what you're trying to prove here by talking about your fanfiction. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 16:29, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
:::::The first bit actually has quite a bit of relevance, since you stated Brock and Flint were both Gym Leaders, and I was pointing out that Brock WASN'T considered a Gym Leader by that episode (the Alola, Kanto Gym episode). They wouldn't repeatedly call him a "former" Gym Leader if he still was one, as former means he no longer is one in any capacity.
:::::But, fine, we'll keep it to your rendition, but I'm doubtful they'd have Misty make that kind of emphasis regarding her resuming her journey if she was still an active gym leader (even with Lt. Surge, he had to specifically confer it onto Vasquez, and going by DPS02, such had to be done formally to the PIA's knowledge for it to stick considering what nearly happened with Forrest despite Brock specifically making him a Gym Leader after Family that Battles Together Stays Together.). Either way, I'm still rewording it a bit to note that she took over as the primary Gym Leader due to her status as Gym Leader being made apparent as early as EP007, both English Dub and Japanese version, which her sisters didn't even deny, which you yourself pointed out.
:::::And my point with the fanfic bit is defining precisely what "headcanon" is. And what I pointed out from the episodes is NOT "headcanon", as it's literally what's shown in the Episode, and what is said in there. If I were to go by my own personal interpretations on an episode, I'd even go as far as to state blatantly false stuff like saying Misty torched the gym when she left just because, hey, I imagined (and by definition interpreted) her doing that before she left, despite it never being shown or even alluded to (not to mention would blatantly be out of character for Misty as she's characterized in the anime). If I were to do that, THEN you can denounce me as engaging in "headcanon." Otherwise, don't. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 19:43, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

User talk:Weedle Mchairybug

2024-06-15T19:44:22Z

Weedle Mchairybug: /* Sensational Sisters */

Psst. Capitalize your sentences. Don't capitalize random words that aren't important. Follow the {{bp|manual of style}} and good ol' English grammar. And accent that é in Pokémon! '''[[User:TTEchidna|TTE]][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 23:23, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

As {{u|TTEchidna}} said, Capitalize your sentences! And where did you get the idea that Misty was the champion of the Togepi competition? IT WASN'T REAL! It was a trap set by Team Rocket so that they could steal her Togepi for [[Colonel Hansen]]. --[[Special:Contributions/Kenji-girl|☆]][[Tracey Sketchit|ケンジ]][[User:Kenji-girl|ガール]] 21:53, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

WOW!!! Though your new, you put up a very good, strong point in arguements! I congratulate you on that! You should start making edits on regular pages, not just talk pages. Good Job!!! --'''[[User:Theryguy512|Theryguy]][[User:Theryguy512/Contribution Page|5]][[User:Theryguy512/Mission Page|1]][[User:Theryguy512/Games|2]]''' 22:21, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

== Errors ==

I really don't think they are errors, Ash has a long journey that's still going, you can't expect him to remember every moment that happened to him. [[User:TheBlazikenMaster|TheBlazikenMaster]] 15:00, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, yeah, but May's was just beginning and the Rubello convention was just after the Fallabor contest, so that same logic can't be applied there. And anyways, it's not that they HAVE to remember everything, but that doesn't mean they should act as though they never heard of it. I mean, that's like forgetting the day of your birth. Besides, how can he forget about a pokemon he owned?![[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 15:16, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
:You do realize its just a tv show. So the writers forgot to have him remember something. Thats an error.[[User:Darth Cookie Monster|Emperor's Cookies]] 15:20, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
::Ok, it fit under error, but just memory error. I still think it's not error as in "senseless". Ok, I am keeping those in the articles as it might look interesting. But I still think the word "forget" is a better way to describe it than "acted like he never heard of...", since that's what's happening, if you act like something never happens the best way to describe it is with the word forget. I am not planning on removing from [[EP233]] or [[AG072]], don't worry. But I still think the word forget is a better way to word it than "acts like he's never heard of". Besides, Ash only had the Primeape for a few episodes, I'm not surprised he forgot about it. [[User:TheBlazikenMaster|TheBlazikenMaster]] 21:14, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

== Misty's Togetic ==

Ok, u win, just fix the grammar!--[[User:Kuki|Kuki]][[User talk:Kuki|Talk]] 12:17, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
:Done and done. Also, thanks. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 12:24, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

== Brock: Only character who looks Japanese ==

WRONG! It's him, Flint, and the Harrison Kids!--[[User:Kuki|Kuki]][[User talk:Kuki|Talk]] 15:09, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Sigh, let me clarify, Brock is the only one of the MAIN characters who looked Japanese. Flint, his siblings, Harrison Kids, Ninetales owner, Suziko, and that Mime jr/Bonsly show director were either side characters or one-shots. If you edited it, I'll revert the edit and make sure I clarified what I was trying to convey
[[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 15:15, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

== Movie 11 ==
I am going to overlook the fact that you overrode an editorial member's contribution without even paying attention to whether or not it supported your point (for instance, you deleted the paragraph in which I stated that the movies marks Origine Forme and Sky Forme's debuts; how is that controversial?). It is childish conduct, but I am used to it by now.

You should have realized that the content I deleted was all ''conjecture''; I couldn't have very well stated erroneous or unfounded information when I only removed other members' conjecture, could I? It may be true that when the first movie was revealed we had good reason to believe that Palkia would tag along with Dialga, but even back then that was not clearly implied. Since then, Dialga and Regigigas have been shown to have some role in the movie on numerous occasions, whereas Palkia has all but been forgotten. As for the new Pokémon, early toy advertisements led some to believe that the unrevealed Pokémon would pertain to the next generation. Since then, Sky Forme has been unveiled and confirmed to be that very same unrevealed Pokémon, leaving no viable reason to suspect that that speculation could still have merit.

All of the above warranted the deletion of the conjecture from the page as soon as last month. But I have refrained from doing so because I knew that certain members' obstinacy could prove problematic. However, by now circumstances have changed due to the fact that the movie has premiered in an early showing in a limited number of Japanese theaters. We already have a synopsis that may not be full-fledged, but is good enough to remove doubt on the subject of Palkia and new Pokémon: They are nowhere to be seen. --[[User:Unown Lord|Unown Lord]] 09:13, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

== Try not to be so biased... ==

Even if Hidaka's statement did sound kinda sexist, well, shit, it's true. Have you ''seen'' the amount of 34 there is of Pokémon, and not just of the human characters? I'm sure you have. Face it, older fans are complete pervs, and it's not like giving Misty short shorts, May a huge rack, and Dawn a short skirt isn't just as sexist. Heck, you couldn't even PLAY as a girl until Crystal! It's not that they're being sexist; it's that they have the internet and know of all the stuff out there... and so therefore, like in ''[[DP039|Steamboat Willies]]'', fanservice, fanservice, fanservice.

Anyway, I reworded the statement, hoping to be more NPOV. Now I'm gonna go wash my keyboard off, because I don't wanna start becoming one of those acronym-throwing Wikipedos. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 23:22, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

:Actually, if I was being biased, I would have only inserted it into Misty's article, and not even have bothered to insert it in May and Dawns articles. Besides, technically, you can play as a girl before Kris, since Misty was playable in Pokemon Puzzle League. And since Love hina comes to mind, in my mindset, Fanservice = sexist. And anyways, May and Dawn were even MORE Fanservicey than Misty (I go by the definition that it's only fanservicey if the person clearly enjoys doing the scandalous thing, or at least implies the enjoyment [Like the majority of the characters in LH, for example.].). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 23:53, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

::I've said this already, but you do not control the definitions of words. Society does. Especially on a wiki, it's important to rely on objective definitions rather than subjective opinions. And even if we go by your definition, Misty clearly enjoyed showing off her body in the Porta Vista Beauty Contest, dressing in that Goldeen swimsuit, and in that mermaid costume, and I don't recall Dawn doing anything "scandalous" on purpose. --[[User:PsychoRobo|PsychoRobo]] 17:09, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

:::No, Misty DIDN'T enjoy the Porta Vista Beauty Contest. She said "It's so degrading, but I need the money" when having to do it, which meant that she didn't like showing off like a playboy model. Also, in regards to the Goldeen outfit, Misty ALSO didn't enjoy it either. She said something like "at least they aren't taking notice of me", which implied she didn't really like the situation she was in (much less having to wear that outfit.). The Mermaid Outfit, she didn't really like having to wear it (ESP. in "The Misty Mermaid"), especially considering that the only reason she did the part was because her sisters set her up (BTW, she refused several times, but eventually relented when she realized her sisters needed help in regards to it). Also, the only reason she agreed to wear the outfit in "Cerulean Blues" was to try and calm down Gyarados. that's FAR Different compared to something like... Oh, I don't know, May's clear enjoyment of stripping on the beach, or Kanako Urashima's complete gladness of stripping (and even doing it in front of her brother at one point.

:::As for what Dawn did that was scandalous, she dressed up as a French Maid (which was a common Japanese Fetish), among other things.[[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 18:46, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Main series games only--[[User:Kuki|Kuki]][[User talk:Kuki|Talk]] 23:53, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

::::Dude, who ''doesn't'' enjoy going to the beach? Besides, is May supposed to wear her regular clothes and GO SWIMMING? And don't forget, Ash wore those clothes too. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 00:56, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

:::::I was referring to the swimsuit contest, since THAT was what you referenced. Also, yes, it's a bit impractical for her to wear her regular clothes and go swimming at the same time, but that doesn't mean she should have stripped in a strip-tease fashion, with her brother practically begging for her to stop doing it, and both he and ash being embarrassed. It's not the question of whether they enjoy going to the beach or not, it's whether they enjoying causing a scandal or not. If you try to disrupt this one more time, I WILL end up being forced to post Love Hina Pics to try and prove what exactly I meant by Fanserviced girls enjoying doing scandalous things. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 01:18, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

::::::I've come to realize that that's what anime does. They're basically all the same. They make the girls into fanservice. Look at YuGiOh GX. The guys wear respectable uniforms while the girls trot around in mini skirts with huge breasts. Come to think of it, Pokémon is being pretty lenient when it comes to fanservice compared to other animes. Not all of the girls have huge breasts unless they are older women (Lorelei and Prof. Ivy). --[[Special:Contributions/Kenji-girl|☆]][[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 01:23, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

::::::: May also has the racks as well, which, along with the other things, makes me want to stop it. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 01:29, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

::::::::Pffsst. You call that a rack? I don't get why people think May's boobs are big. That's just my opinion. --[[Special:Contributions/Kenji-girl|☆]][[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 01:32, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

:::::::::Maybe they aren't as big as Prima's, but they are definitely far too large for her age. I mean, ask her side profile pictures if you don't believe me. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 01:33, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Love Hina pics? If I was more of the male Internet user stereotype, I'd jump for joy at the prospect, but at least someone else might garner "enjoyment" out of them. In the meantime, I'll prepare for the event by giving you a picture of Slave Leia (from Star Wars Episode VI) as soon as I'm back on Bulbagarden forums, because obviously it is not fanservice because she obviously did not enjoy it and it did serve a more meaningful purpose than showing off Carrie Fisher's sweet bod.

Crikey, you make such a big deal out of the "stripping" scene. If anything, it was Max's fault for suggesting that it was striptease in the first place, because, oh, maybe changing into swimsuits on the beach is normal? Besides, American cartoons are arguably worse with these kind of jokes, because several episodes have little boys running around naked (Dexter's Laboratory and The Fairly OddParents, as examples). And yes, controversy over children's TV shows have been done to death already in North America, so I guess you're out of a job when it comes to American cartoons. And I suspect (directed at Kenji-girl) that people think May's boobs are big because this is the Internet, where everything is blown out of proportion.

I laughed at your claim that Dawn dressing up as a French maid was scandalous. Okay, so Ash also dressing up as a maid is not scandalous? What about Ash's recent Tarzan outfit (check Bulbagarden's Ash Club for details)? Or are you being sexist against males by suggesting they can't be hot too? --[[User:PsychoRobo|PsychoRobo]] 15:31, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

:Look, I don't enjoy those things anymore than you do. I used that as a way to try and stop you from doing that (mocking me).

:Also, everyone else made a big deal out of the striptease as well! And anyways, blame the writers as well, since they set it up as a striptease as well. And also blame Ash for looking embarrased about what he just saw. and anyways, MOST people wear an undershirt when they go to the beach. They DON'T, however, go to the beach in their regular clothes and take them off in front of everyone. also, I barely even WATCH Fairly OddParents (as a matter of fact, my parents, as well as I, avoided that show like the plague for the same reasons they mostly avoid the Simpsons.), and while I used to watch Dexters Laboratory, I started to hate it when they did that musical episode.

:and another thing, an entire THREAD was made in regards to how Pokemon was becoming more fetishish and used Dawn's Cheerleader and Maid costumes as an example. I'll eliminate every single sexist action on this planet, male and female alike. Besides, how can I be sexist with my own gender? By being sexist towards males, I'm being sexist towards myself. And anyways, Ash didn't even WANT to wear the Maids outfit, as you can tell by his blushing out of humiliation.

:I have warned you that if you don't stop mocking me, I WILL be forced to post those pics if it stops you. And I will act on it, even though I feel as though this is a mistake. I have hated these pics, but they prove my point as to how degrading fanservice is, and most importantly, how the characters in question actually DO enjoy causing this scandal. You have brought this upon yourself...
:However, I'll be a bit merciful and delay it until I successfully upload the first part of my video, which, as soon as I download Version 12 of Pinnacle, shouldn't take too long, since the Images in question are ON this video. HOWEVER, that doesn't mean you are allowed to mock me. I mean, think of it this way, if your parents, or your friends (real life friends, I mean), mentioned their dislike of May OR Dawn, would you act the very same way towards them that you act towards me? If the answer is no, take that into account before you try to mock me again.

:[[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 16:17, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
::And that entire sexism thread lost all credibility after its first response, when Blackjack Palazzo claimed she wished to see more male fanservice. And there was another girl that said it was mostly males that argue over this kind of thing, and the girls don't see much of a problem. So much for feminism, eh? Plus, I don't know many males who would willingly cross-dress, besides characters like Harley, James, and Bugs Bunny. Ash's unwillingness to wear it is thus irrelevant. I also don't know what a musical episode of Dexter's Laboratory has to do with the discussion. Please stop throwing non sequiturs around if you wish to be taken seriously.

::Oh, you're being merciful? Well, that's just a bit more time to postpone posting Slave Leia pics on your account, then. Anyways, who said I didn't enjoy fanservice? It's so fun to mock.

::As for your last question, of course I would still act the same way towards you. Why should I let other people control the way I think? A lot of people don't like Pokemon in my school, so your "peer pressure" argument barely fazes me. Oh, wait, you're jealous, aren't you? You're jealous because I scored with the same Serebii mod that banned you. You can't believe that I could get on her good side while you ended up becoming the laughingstock of Serebii's idiot hunters, and that's why you put the "real life friends" part. Well, maybe if you weren't trying to usurp her position by judging everyone on the forum with your "holier-than-thou" attitude (kind of like Lisa Simpson), then maybe you wouldn't be in the position you are now! P.S. This is becoming increasingly irrelevant to Bulbapedia editing. If you wish to continue, put this on my Bulbagarden or Pokecommunity account (MetaRobo/PorygonSquared, respectively). [[User:PsychoRobo|PsychoRobo]] 16:48, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

== Linking to other wikis ==

When linking to other wikis, please remeber to use {{ }} around the link, not [[ ]]

Thanks. ♪♪[[User:ShinyPachirisu|Shiny]] [[User Talk:ShinyPachirisu|Pachirisu]] :) ♪♪ 00:38, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

== Let me explain something to you ==

Just because I said that it doesn't only apply to Misty doesn't mean you can go and put it on May and Dawn's pages.

The reason we have a page on SOVA, despite being a fan thing, is because it was a big deal. This isn't so much a big deal that caused fans to write hundreds of letters. Infact I doubt that many people even know about it.

We already mention what he said on [[Masamitsu Hidaka|his page]] and how some fans find it offensive. We don't need to affiliate the character with it as well. Yes it was a shitty thing to say but we don't need to be reminded of it everytime we visit Misty, May, or Dawn's pages. --[[Special:Contributions/Kenji-girl|☆]][[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 11:35, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

::Fine, I won't edit the pages, and I'm also sorry for my response on your talk page, while I'm at it. However, I'm only stopping because Hidaka's page already mentioned it. and anyways, as far as I'm concerned, if it doesn't apply to just one person involved, it applies to ALL people involved. So, next time you say something like that, try it in a way that I can understand. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 11:40, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

== Arceus/Mew dispute ==

I've put up a full explanation at [[Talk:Arceus (Pokémon)#Arceus vs. Mew]]. I don't mean to sound so aggressive, but there truly is no real basis for considering Mew the first. At best, it should be mentioned that the fan community considered it the first, but that was always fanon and never what the games actually claimed.

Again, sorry if I've offended you.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 06:32, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

:I also posted my response on that discussion. And also, Porygon MAY have been made later, but then, if it can't be a descendant of Mew, then HOW can Mew be able to transform into it? I mean, they HAD to have used some form of Mew's DNA in order for it to be able to transform into it and it's family (Besides, they used Mew's DNA to create Mewtwo, who's to say they used ALL of the Mew DNA to transform into it? Besides, the pokedex entries hint that the reason why Mewtwo is savage and aggressive is because they repeatedly spliced Mewtwo's DNA, so I'm guessing they may have used his DNA in Grimer/Muk, Castform, and, yes, even the Porygon Family, so in a sense, they are Mewtwo's Children, and thus, in a sense, Mew's Grandchildren. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 11:00, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
:::Replied on the talk page. As for your comment here, I'm sorry, but it is completely ignorant of any concept of genetics, especially the actual concept of [[wikipedia:RNA splicing|genetic splicing]] and what DNA ''does'', as well as the actual text of Porygon's Pokedex entries, and the in-game description of how {{m|Transform}} works.

:::Let me illustrate your basic misunderstanding - a child typically has distinct DNA from two sources ( a mother and a father). You may not know this, but the mother and father generally have ''completely'' distinct lineages, and share almost no DNA that all humans don't share - to put it simply, the mother and father are generally not brother and sister, or anything close.
:::Now, because of this, the child will have DNA from the mother ''and'' father. What you are claiming is analogous to saying that the child's father should be able to turn into the child's mother, because the child, his descendant, has DNA from his mother. But this is utter hogwash, and immediately recognizable as lunatic raving. The very use of sexual reproduction in macro-evolution is that it introduces '''''NEW''''' genes into the gene pool.
:::If transformation were inherent in the species ''at all'', it would be obvious to even the casual observer that it would be the ''child'' who could be expected to be able to transform into both the father or mother, ''as his very nature'' is to be a collection of both of their DNA.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 05:57, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
::::Okay, first off - you don't get to make ultimatums, that's not how a wiki works. Second off, where in the ''hell'' does the D/P Pokedex say that Mew is "believed to be the originator of all Pokémon", thought to "possibly contain the genetic code of every other Pokémon", or able to "learn every TM/HM"? Finally, how could "Arceus being the original one" and "Mew creating ''ALL'' Pokemon" ever be reconciled? They're necessarily contradictory!
::::However, to try and compromise with you ''without'' making up fanfiction and being dishonest about the Pokedex, I rewrote the section you keep adding without having removed it. Is this acceptable?[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 03:44, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::Fine, I thank you for at least keeping the gist of it. BTW, I wasn't lying about the Pokédex entry. As a matter of fact, I have copied and pasted Mew's D/P Dex entry from his article just for you to see it. here it is:
:::::'''''''Because it can use all kinds of moves, many scientists believe Mew to be the ancestor of Pokémon. '''''''
:::::And to further prove that I'm not lying, I ALSO am going to post a link:
:::::Bulbapedia.Bulbagarden.net/wiki/Mew_(Pokémon)#Pokédex_entries.
:::::Next time you try to accuse me of lying about it, read Mew's D/P pokedex entry first, since it still said that Mew was believed to be the ancestor of pokémon (the fact it said pokémon made it seem like it said all pokémon.).
:::::Also, I tried to reason with you multiple times, but you insisted that it shouldn't be in there, despite the fact that the Dex actually stated it, so I was forced to take drastic measures.
:::::[[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 10:33, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
::::::YEs, you ''were'' incorrect about the Pokedex entry - you claimed it specifically said those things, and ''it did not''. '''Those''' were the points in contention, and you keep trying to avoid them. The Dex does '''not''' "actually say it", so you're claim that I forced you to keep trying to pass off your speculation as fact is incorrect.
*Specifically:
#The DP pokedex entry says '''nothing''' about TMs/HMs.
#The DP pokedex entry says '''nothing''' about genetics.
#The DP pokedex entry says '''nothing''' about "''originating'' '''all''' Pokemon".[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 01:05, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
::Do I LOOK Like I care what the DP pokedex says?! I only care for what ALL of them said. And ANOTHER thing, they may have not explicitly mentioned "TMs/HMs", but the mere fact that Mew's DP pokédex entry said that it can use ''All kinds of moves'' implies that it can learn TMs and HMs as well, as well as natural, move tutors, and even moves only available from Metronome. As for Genetics, The closest thing it came to mentioning Genetics was in SSBB's Trophy, and besides which, the mere fact that it can learn transform (which is stated to be the recombining of DNA into the pokemon that matches that DNA) should be enough to prove it's the Ancestor. And for Originating All Pokemon. SO WHAT? The Pokédex entry ALSO didn't say it originated most, some, few, or even only one Pokemon, either. It just said "Ancestor of All Pokemon", and from what I can tell, especially with how people often interperet thing, if it doens't explicitly mention that it's only most, few, some, or only one pokemon that it is an ancestor of, that means it's the ancestor of All Pokemon. Therefore, Mew stated that it's ancestor of pokemon = ancestor of all pokemon.

::I also forgot to mention one thing. There's a Significant difference between Mew's transforming into a Pokemon and Ditto's Transforming into a pokémon. Ditto can only transform into a pokemon when it sees it [It's also implied that it can't go by memory], whileas with Mew, it's implied thar Mew can transform into any pokemon without necessarily needing to see it at first (as one of the problems with trying to get Mew in Emerald is that it can transform into pokemon, and in the Anime, it's been shown to transform into pokemon that it hasn't had any contact with, or at the very least not any direct contact [eg, Ho-oh, Taillow, etc.].).

::Even IF it's not directly mentioned in the D/P/P Pokedex, we must wait until GSDS comes out (if it comes out) or, assuming that there is one, generation 5 before we say that it's been retconned. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 01:23, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

== Wow! ==

In all the time you've been on Bulbapedia, you haven't made a single contribution to the Userspace! That's quite an accomplishment! --[[User:Politoed666|ニョロトノ]][[User talk:Politoed666|''666'']] 22:22, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
:Userspace? [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 22:37, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
::Its the user page and anything connected with it except talk pages. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[User:Jmath/Sandbox|'''th''']] 22:41, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
::Oh, that. See, it's in red spacing, and I'm not completely sure if I can create one. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 22:42, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
:::O.O You don't have to create a page... ♪♪[[User:ShinyPachirisu|Shiny]] [[User Talk:ShinyPachirisu|Pachirisu]] :) ♪♪ 22:44, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
==Legendary Genders==
it said none because Legendary's dont have genders! [[User:Mooites|Mooites]] 01:55, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
:Only in the games, though. Maybe you've forgotten, but a Baby Lugia DID appear in the show. If they didn't have genders, please explain how Silver even exists?! Heck, most of the legendaries had multiples in the anime, and if they don't have genders, how can they have multiple species at the same time? [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 02:16, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
::Asexual Reproduction? They are hermaphrodites? There's more methods of reproduction than male/female sexual reproduction, you know. [[User:PsychoRobo|PsychoRobo]] 22:11, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
::good point. [[User:Mooites|Mooites]] 02:19, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
:::Mooites, this is directed at PsychoRobo, so don't think it seems like i'm lecturing you. PsychoRobo, ONE. Next time you have to respond to my usertalk, or any talk page for that matter, place it AFTER the recent poster. TWO. Asexual Reproduction requires budding, for the most part. THREE, Hermaphrodites change genders (meaning, they change from female to male just to reproduce. So, in one sense, the Marril family are hermaphrodites.), so they would still need to mate in order to reproduce the same effect. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 22:35, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
::::First, to respond to three. The topic was whether legendaries had genders or not. Just because they need to mate doesn't mean they have defined genders. And to two, budding is not the only form of asexual reproduction. In fact, many creatures such as starfish and especially plants can reproduce with a fragment of the parent. [[User:PsychoRobo|PsychoRobo]] 00:06, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::I think Budding involves the separation of the original host, so Starfish actually DO bud to reproduce. Also, Plants technically require pollination in order to reproduce (the stigma is the male plant, the phyla is the female, the pollen goes to another plant, they make eggs known as seeds, get my drift?), so technically, it's not asexual reproduction. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 00:10, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
::::::Plants can regenerate asexually with one of their body parts removed, though. It's not their main option, but it is an option. [[User:PsychoRobo|PsychoRobo]] 14:51, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

== Edits ==

Please stop doing it. We can discuss it on the talk page. Just no more edits. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[User:Jmath/Sandbox|'''th''']] 22:07, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

:Fine, But the thing still stands. Now, if you want to add a footnote that this happened before the release of Platinum on the edits page (or request me to do so), fine, because that way, we'll have middle ground. I can say it's technically a out of order defeat, and you can say that it was before Platinum was released. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 22:11, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
::Anyway, where did you get that the order is changed? It isn't anywhere else here. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[User:Jmath/Sandbox|'''th''']] 22:13, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
:::Tv.com. The Platinum release thread. Specifically:

:::"Hearthome Gym is now the Third gym, Veilstone is the Fourth, and Pastoria is the Fifth

:::How dumb is it for Fantina not to have Drifblim. Her dress is best on it, and her gym in the anime was. "

:::"Oh, I didn't even notice the Gym order switch!

:::Yay, in Diamond and Pearl Fantina uses Drifblim in Super Contests, and since her dress is based on one I guess they'll let her keep that Driflblim. Now while the Drifblim/Duskull switch is odd, why in the world did they replace her Gengar with a Haunter? Just becuase she's no longer the fifth Gym they downgraded her Pokemon?

:::Though I do agree with the evolving of Gardenia's Cherubi into a Cherrim, hopefully Dawn will get one in the anime."

:::The Quotes were from SPDShadowRanger and Pikachu315111, respectively

:::[[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 22:23, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Are you sure what's written there can be taken as fact? How can some guy know that when the game hasn't even been released yet. Even Bulbapedia is not mentioning it. At least edit it when the game's released. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[User:Jmath/Sandbox|'''th''']] 22:26, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

:Considering how even Serebii (The webmaster, not the pokemon) is playing through Platinum as we speak, I'd say it already HAS been released. If serebii updated the site to include the changes in Roark's pokemon/Puzzle, It can be fairly certain that these others have played the game. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 22:30, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
::Then what is September 13 for? Some guys get special privileges? [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[User:Jmath/Sandbox|'''th''']] 22:34, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
:::I just changed the release date, and mentioned why in it's talk page. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 22:35, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

If you could make the footnote for that trivia, go ahead. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[User:Jmath/Sandbox|'''th''']] 22:41, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

== Style ==

Please read the {{bp|manual of style}} and familiarize yourself with English grammar before you edit too much more. Your recent edits to [[legendary birds]] spelled Pokémon as pokemon, used "it's", among as possessive, and has weird capitals all over the place, among other errors. --[[User:Martonimos|Martonimos]][[User talk:Martonimos|((Argh]]|[[Special:Contributions/Martonimos|Blargh))]] 20:57, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

== Delete? ==

Do you want your user page deleted?Can I put the tag on it? another user generously made one for you--[[User:DCM|DCM]][[User talk:DCM|((Nag at Me!]][[Special:Contributions/DCM|Edits))]]

== Speculation ==

Please don't put speculation in main articles; just put it on the talk page. [[User:Dialgarules|Dialgarules]] 01:30, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
:I'm sorry, but you ''really'' have to make sense on this site. You put Poké-ball when it SAYS IN THE WELCOME THINGY to say '''Poké [space] Ball!''' When you say that Meowth "prefers to walk around" it could mean a lot of things. You could say that it likes to be out of its Poké [space] Ball. How about you take a quick look at [[Bulbapedia:Manual_of_style|this]]? [[User:Dialgarules|Dialgarules]] 00:39, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

== Pokémon Heroes Subtitles ==

There are such things that are called, oh maybe you've heard of them, ERRORS. I've listened to it several times and it does not sound like "I'm sorry" to me. Sometimes the people making the subtitles mess up. Also the whole Misty catching Totodile thing doesn't float. That's a matter of opinion and making speculations because of the way the balls were thrown. Don't put any of these things on Totodile's page again.--[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 10:52, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
:Ok, but then again, technically, several other things like the Major events section, Trivia, and Errors section technically shouldn't appear in those pages either, since it's kinda speculation in and of itself, no matter how it's worded. Heck, the entirety of Bulbapedia's articles are speculation. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 13:42, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

== Anime abilities ==

Please do not add unconfirmed abilities to anime Pokémon pages. It doesn't matter if the only ability for a {{AP|Totodile}} is {{a|Torrent}}, or if the only ability for a {{AP|Larvitar}} is {{a|Guts}}. Unless it is confirmed in words in the anime, the ability stays as Unknown. The unconfirmed ability removal was started by {{u|Politoed666}} an EB member. - [[User:Kogoro|'''<sc>Kogoro</sc>''']] '''|''' [[User talk:Kogoro|'''<sc>Talk to me</sc>''']] '''|''' 04:34, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
:If that's the case, should we eliminate the majority of Psyduck's wins (or participations in battles in other words?), or heck, Pikachu's Participation in Round 2 of the Saffron Gym battle? I mean, they never explicitly said in the anime "I choose Pikachu"/"Pikachu, GO!" or "Psyduck, I choose you!" those times (if anything, the opposite is true, as with Psyduck, it pops out when she's choosing Staryu, Starmie, or some other pokemon, and Ash tried to tell Pikachu to avoid battling Kadabra.), and thus is the same thing, as far as I'm concerned (I also posted this for Politoed666 on Maverick Nate's talk Page.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 04:57, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
::Then understand what she meant to say and not what she literally said. Psyduck is ''used'' in the anime. Torrent is not. Pikachu is ''used'' in the anime. Guts is not. Abilities that are not mentioned and do not ever appear should not be put on anime pages. [[User:IIMarckus|IIMarckus]] 05:04, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
:::Even IF the ability is the only thing it's got?! I mean, common sense should dictate the fact that, if it's the only ability it can ever have, it is to be included in the abilities section, REGARDLESS if it's stated in the anime or not. Besides, Abilities ARE used as well (they activate under certain conditions). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 05:08, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
::::The anime and games barely match up at the best of times. You might as well be adding “Based on the moves such‐and‐such knows, it is probably between levels 34 and 40” to pages. Nothing suggests that the Totodile in the anime has Torrent. [[User:IIMarckus|IIMarckus]] 05:11, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
:::::On the case of the ability needing to be mentioned in words, how else would an ability be confirmed? Misty's Psyduck popping out of it's Poké Ball and battling is visual, so it's obvious without any words. It's rather hard to not notice the flash of light come from Misty's pack, then Psyduck standing near her. With abilities, it's a little less black & white. Unless someone like Brock says something like "Totodile's using its ability, Torrent!" we're not able to know that it's actually Torrent activating or not. I hope you understand now. - [[User:Kogoro|'''<sc>Kogoro</sc>''']] '''|''' [[User talk:Kogoro|'''<sc>Talk to me</sc>''']] '''|''' 05:41, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

== Grammar ==

The first letter of every sentence is capitalized, and Pokémon is spelled with an é and an uppercase P. You've been here long enough to know that, so you should have gotten it the first time. ''[[User:Maverick Nate|'''Maverick''']][[User talk:Maverick Nate|'''Nate''']]'' 15:45, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

:Please, please starting using better grammar. Stop making so many run-on sentences. And stop capitalizing words that don't need to be like ''dub''. Only capitalize the first word in the sentence, Pokémon names, character names, anything with Poké in front of it, and proper nouns. Also you use ''whileas'' in your sentences A LOT. Whileas is not a word. If you want, but really not needed, put ''while as''. But you really don't need it. Just say ''while''. And don't over use those parenthesis (). You use them way too much. And try not to add these extra words like ''merely'', ''actually'', or ''clearly'' unless absolutely needed. Thank you. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 06:05, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

== Ironically ==

Please don't over user the term 'ironically'. Thanks, --[[User:RexRacer|'''Rex]][[Quilava (Pokémon)|Racer''']] [[User talk:RexRacer|'''''-talk''''']] 15:52, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

== "Focusing" ==

There is a difference between an episode focusing on a particular character, and a particular character supporting them. For episode 232? That is not an episode focusing on Misty. Brock? Yes. Look a little more closely at these roles, then decide who it's focused on. -[[User:Sketch|Sketch]] 21:01, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
:Well, actually it's focused on both. You see, if it wasn't for Misty, Brock would have become the Ninetale's owner's reincarnate, and Ash would have also completely fallen for the deception, and Brock would also have never figured out that the Ninetales in question was just trying to relive it's memories of it's own trainer, so it's also focused upon in there. Now, if you want "supporting", Ash is a good example, He didn't initially think about it being a trick/illusion made by Ninetales, even claiming Misty was paranoid, and only started to believe when Ash saw Brock go through her.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 21:06, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
::Just because Misty figured out what Ninetails was doing doesn't mean it's a Misty focused episode. Stop trying to look for any little thing that makes Misty the focus of the episode. Like 133. Pikachu and Meowth were also the focal points of the episode so why didn't you think of adding Ash and Team Rocket as focuses. Because they are not. The focuses were the Pokémon. Not Misty. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 00:28, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
:::Actually, in regards to EP133, it's because Meowth and Pikachu already have their OWN episode focusing templates, so adding in Jessie James Ash or Team Rocket's episode focusing templates would have been pointless.

:::And anyways, she didn't merely just "Figure it out", she tried to warn Ash and especially Brock for a significant portion of the episode. See, anything a main character does that's significant to the episode as well as focuses on them for the majority of the time is a "episode focused on so-and-so" episode in and of itself, and Contests/Gym Battles and even Captures aren't enough. I mean, Jessie, for instance, won a ribbon in the episode where Ash beat fantina, was this a Jessie-oriented episode? no, because she was barely even focused on [in fact, unless I'm mistaken, which I probably am, i think the contest was actually not even shown until after Ash won the battle] the episode [[EP103|Misty Meets her Match]] was a similar scenario.). Now, if I added in the template for episode 001, then yes, your accusations would be legitimate, correct, and justified.

:::It doesn't matter anyways, as I have already completed the test anyways (Ash:40, Misty:46, maybe Ash:40, Misty:45 now.), and this was actually a test to see if Ash was truly the central character (the central character would usually have most of the entire show focused on him/her. As he didn't exceed Misty, he's not really a central main character.). the only part Misty had in it was to see whether she was actually equal to Ash, or rather, to set a fair comparison between the characters to have it be a fair test (I can't use Brock or Tracey, because that would be a no contest, and thus, an unfair advantage on Ash's part.). I also plan on doing the same thing with Ash and May in regards to AG, and Ash and Dawn in DP as well.

:::On a side note, I also did it to statistically find out which of the girls was actually close to being Ash's equal (I earlier speculated Misty, but I found out that she actually exceeded Ash), and I only did it because I have certain doubts of Dawn actually being equal to Ash (since I researched it, and noticed initially that Misty seemed closer to equality to Ash than May and Dawn were). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 01:08, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
::::Just because Togepi doesn't have a focusing category yet doesn't automatically make Misty the character of focus. News flash, Ash is the main character of the show not Misty. And there is WAY MORE THAN 40 episodes focusing on Ash. As for the female character that is Ash's equal, I believe it's Dawn. For someone who's been in the series for 107 episodes, she sure had a significant amount of episodes focusing on her. Maybe not as much as Misty, but Misty was around for 250 plus episodes. At the rate the show is going, Dawn will probably have more episodes than Misty. I know you might not like to hear that, but it's the truth. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 01:15, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

::::in regards to Togepi, if you are talking about Tanks a lot, it's because Misty pretty much organized the attack among other things. As for your claims that Ash is focused upon more than Misty (and more than 40 episodes), that's not even close to a true statement. I already did the analysis of all the episodes I could, outrightly ignoring those that are completely unknown. Also, Most of the Johto episodes didn't even focus on Ash at all (and also didn't focus on Misty, Brock, OR Team Rocket), Instead, it focused on COTDs with even Ash being nothing more than the Background, so, in all reality, Ash isn't the central character you think he is. If anything, it's you whose being more biased. I was trying to make it as fair as I can. There were even Gym matches that barely even focused on Ash at all, despite his participating in them (Case in point: Misty Meets her Match.) And also, the majority of the captures he made in the Kanto Saga either had him sharing the spotlight (Ash Catches a Pokémon, which not only dealt with Ash's captures, but Character Development from Misty as well, since a significant part of the episode dealt with her trying to cope with Caterpie despite her fear of bug-types/bugs.), or was never even in the spotlight in the first place (Charmander and the Stray Pokemon, as that episode dealt with Brock trying to help Charmander and all that, among other things, and Ash pretty much took Charmander.).

::::And also, I counted the episode listings thus far in regards to Dawn-centric episodes, and out of the 107 episodes thus far, only 20 episodes were actually focused on Dawn (see, in order for it to be a lot for a girl who has been in for 107 episodes, it needs to be, oh... 40 episodes in that range at least.). Misty had more by this time (7 more by the halfway point, and we just went by the halfway point already, as the 12th movie trailer implied that the upcoming 12th movie will be the last DP series movie.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 01:41, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
:::::This is the problem I have with your counting. Obviously there are others who do not agree that characters in certain episodes have "focus". Therefore your "statistics" aren't entirely accurate. You can say that "Oh, this character is the focus in this episode so that gives them this many episodes..." and so forth...that doesn't make it true. -[[User:Sketch|Sketch]] 01:48, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
::::::Since others seem to not agree amongst themselves, that also means that even THEIR views on what's "Focus" isn't entirely accurate either. And anyways, if that's the case, then Ash never really had much focus in the Leagues, even though those league episodes were listed as episodes focused on him. It's no different. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 01:51, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
:::::::Misty wasn't the one who orginized the plan in Tanks A lot. From what I remember, it was mostly Team Rocket's idea. You give Misty WAY TOO MUCH credit for things. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 02:02, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
::::::::Like how you gave too much credit to Ash or Dawn? you don't seem to be getting this, even without Tanks a Lot, she still had more ACTUAL character-centric episodes than Ash anyhow, and had more character-centric episodes than Dawn, anyways, even by range. And hey, what about the part about Entei at your own risk being a Brock centric episode just because his Foretress evolving, even though there were episodes where a main characters pokemon evolved even though said main character wasn't even the focus of the episode ("March of the Exeggutor Squad" says hi, since the episode was actually a Misty-centric episode by all definitions, and yet Ash's Charmeleon evolved, despite his barely even being out of the background.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 02:17, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Because Ash is the absolute main character of the show. And you only so far counted the original series episodes. What about Advanced and DP? You can't possibly believe Misty has more character focused episodes than Ash. And as for Entie At Your Own Risk, it does automatically a character focused episode when one of their Pokémon evolves. There Pokémon accidentally wondering off doesn't. And you say that its Misty focused because Togepi got inside the tank but refuse to acknowledge Ash and Team Rocket for the very same reason.

Personally, I think your a bit Misty obsessed and are looking for any reason to label Misty the focus of an episode. Please come to the realization that Misty was not the main focus of the series and that Ash was, and still is. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 02:27, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

:No, he ISN'T the absolute main character. Also, I counted the original series episodes because I just wanted to focus on whose the more equal female. And anyways, since you said "Original Series", that's because it's three different series in Japan, meaning, trying to compare is ridiculous beyond belief. I mean, it's like trying to say Ash was more popular than May in the Original series, it's silly. As for the whole thing about evolution=character-focus episode, no it doesn't. In order for it to truly be a character-centric episode, the character in question must have actual focus for more than 50% of the entire episode. As Brock wasn't even focused on for most of the episode, evolution or not, it's not an actual "Brock-centric episode".

:Also, I'm not misty-obsessed (aside from wanting to want her to return and working to make sure i do that, of course.). Believe me, If I WAS truly what you had described me, I would have labeled EP001, and absolutely every single episode Misty was in for that matter [even that brief cameo she had in the Hoenn Conference), as being a Misty-centric episode just because she's in it. And anyways, even if she wasn't, Ash wasn't either. I mean, I could list a few episodes that didn't focus on ANY of the main characters at all, like the majority of the Johto saga (The Xatu episode didn't focus on Ash, the Sunflora Vileplume episode didn't focus on Ash, the the Red Gyarados arc didn't focus on Ash [if it focused on anyone, it was Lance], etc. etc.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 03:02, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

::Yes, he is. Misty and the others are main characters but the anime basically revolves around Ash. ESPECIALLY in the original series in which you keep insisting Misty is the center of the series. What did Misty do? Was it Misty who competed in the Gym Battles? Was it Misty who competed in the Pokémon League? Was it Misty who was deciding where they were heading next? She was basically a character like Brock, Tracey, and Max are. One of Ash's friends who follows him and really doesn't do anything that greatly impacts the direction of the series. This does not mean that they are not important but they are basically behind Ash and are not his equal in anyway. The beginning of the Japanese openings never said "Satoshi, Kasumi, and Takeshi". They always said "Satoshi". It wasn't until the Diamond and Pearl that it was changed to "Satoshi and Hikari". It was the Advanced Generation were they decided to share the main point of the series with another character, May.

::You seem to be misunderstanding what I meant. I didn't mean every single episode is Ash focused. I'm saying that the anime in general is Ash focused.

::To Bulbapedia's standards, an episode in which a main character catches a Pokémon, evolves a Pokémon, or releases a Pokémon is an automatic focus on a particular character. Regardless of what you think.

::Yes, you are indeed Misty obsessed if you believe that she was more important of a character than Ash is. Even I don't say that about Tracey. If Misty was indeed the most important character of the series than why isn't she in it anymore? Why did the producers decide to keep Brock and not her?

::So are you trying to tell me that what ever happened after the original series doesn't matter? That it doesn't matter that Ash continued to be in more episodes after Misty's departure. Get a clue. Ash is the center of the anime followed by Dawn and May then the other characters, which includeds Misty. Of course Team Rocket is up their with May and Dawn as the opposing side to the heroes. You need to except that. Just because Misty has a lot of fans doesn't make her more important in the series than Ash is. You are being way too baised in your decisions. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 03:51, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

:::''Yes, he is. Misty and the others are main characters but the anime basically revolves around Ash. ESPECIALLY in the original series in which you keep insisting Misty is the center of the series. What did Misty do? Was it Misty who competed in the Gym Battles? Was it Misty who competed in the Pokémon League? Was it Misty who was deciding where they were heading next? She was basically a character like Brock, Tracey, and Max are. One of Ash's friends who follows him and really doesn't do anything that greatly impacts the direction of the series. This does not mean that they are not important but they are basically behind Ash and are not his equal in anyway. The beginning of the Japanese openings never said "Satoshi, Kasumi, and Takeshi". They always said "Satoshi". It wasn't until the Diamond and Pearl that it was changed to "Satoshi and Hikari". It was the Advanced Generation were they decided to share the main point of the series with another character, May. ''

:::Actually, she did greatly impact the series, as if it wasn't for her, Ash would have DIED. Since you guys are saying that he IS the Anime, then, if it wasn't for her, the anime would have ended right then and there. Besides, the only time relating to battles where the focus was undeniably on Ash was in the Leagues (The Gyms are debatable, as the Gym episodes seemed to focus more on the characters appearing than on Ash himself, or in the case of the Rudy Gym Episode, focused almost exclusively on Misty.). Besides, the point of the poll was how much screentime she really got compared to the Girls, and to be honest, I wasn't even anticipating the results to be as high as it was.

:::''You seem to be misunderstanding what I meant. I didn't mean every single episode is Ash focused. I'm saying that the anime in general is Ash focused.''

:::You said he was the "Absolute" main character, which, according to Webster, means everything. which, taking that definition into account, would imply that Absolutely every millisecond of every episode would be focused on Ash, which it really wasn't.

:::''To Bulbapedia's standards, an episode in which a main character catches a Pokémon, evolves a Pokémon, or releases a Pokémon is an automatic focus on a particular character. Regardless of what you think.''

:::Regardless if the episode focused 90% more on a Main Character other than Ash and Ash himself got only 10% when the capture/evolution/release episode was made (Like in the Charmander episode, even though Ash caught Charmander, it was more focused on Brock, as he was the one who reacted first to Damian's neglect, he's the one who cared for Charmander the most, he was the one who got extremely worried about Charmander when it left upon recovery to try and reunite with Damian. All Ash did throughout the episode was capture it [and, according to Brock, checked it's tail.].). That's crazy! I mean, Misty caught Psyduck, and I'll be the first to admit that the episode of it's capture barely even focused on her. If it even focused on anyone, it was Officer Jenny and Nurse Joy, which was a major reason as to why I didn't even include it.

:::''Yes, you are indeed Misty obsessed if you believe that she was more important of a character than Ash is. Even I don't say that about Tracey. If Misty was indeed the most important character of the series than why isn't she in it anymore? Why did the producers decide to keep Brock and not her?

:::Actually, I wasn't even thinking Misty was more important than Ash when I did this test. I just was doing it to measure the amount of character centric episodes Misty got in comparison to Ash (As well as the females in comparison to Ash as a whole.). heck, to be honest, I didn't even anticipate that Misty would get more episodes than Ash (The least I could predict was probably Misty: 45% Ash: 65%, if not 50/50.). The only reason why I had gotten the results to be 40:46 for Ash and Misty was because I didn't realize that someone had already listed the Johto Conference episodes as being Ash centric. Besides, if I was truly that which you described me as, I would have posted every single episodes that Misty ever appeared in as being a "Misty Centric" episode just because she appeared (Which I didn't and I actually gave reasons for why the episodes were focused on Misty or Ash.).

:::''So are you trying to tell me that what ever happened after the original series doesn't matter? That it doesn't matter that Ash continued to be in more episodes after Misty's departure. Get a clue. Ash is the center of the anime followed by Dawn and May then the other characters, which includeds Misty. Of course Team Rocket is up their with May and Dawn as the opposing side to the heroes. You need to except that. Just because Misty has a lot of fans doesn't make her more important in the series than Ash is. You are being way too baised in your decisions.''

:::No I wasn't. And anyways, if Ash was truly the center of the show as you claim, please explain to me why the writers actually considered replacing Ash twice. You know exactly what I mean, the special Raikou: The Legend of Thunder was released midway through Johto, where Ash wasn't even in that special, period, much less the Main Character, and some fans even stated that the special was a prototype for a series that wouldn't have involved Ash at all. Later, they revealed a Poster advertizing for a DP anime that had Dawn, Dawn, and Dawn alone on it, absolutely no sign of Ash on it, period. Some of the fanbase thought they were actually replacing Ash for the series because of that (and Dogasu even admitted that the reasoning behind the belief was legitimate). Now granted, they decided to keep Ash on, but the mere fact that they even thought of that special and making that Poster in that way implies that the writers felt that even Ash was expendable, which implies that, even back in the original series, Ash wasn't the star of the show (The writers wouldn't even THINK of doing the Raikou special if they felt that Ash was truly the star of the show.). So who's being more biased now? [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 14:28, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

You know Weedle, Ash IS the main character of the show. That doesn't mean he has to get the focus in ''every'' episode. It's on his goals that the anime revolves around not on any other characters. Its been like that since the beginning of the series. Ash always seems to be there when everyone else isn't. And the part about Misty saving Ash, do you really think a main character would '''die'''? That's never going to happen. Sure they may be life-threatening moments but they would never ''die''.

Naruto is a perfect example of being the main character but not given the focus in every episode. Its just like that with Ash. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 15:38, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
:I really don't think your experiment should have been done in the mainspace--[[User:RexRacer|'''Rex]][[Quilava (Pokémon)|Racer''']] [[User talk:RexRacer|'''''-talk''''']] 15:53, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

:Technically, he did die, twice. In the episode "The Tower of Terror", Haunter took Ash and Pikachu's souls out of their bodies after they caused the Chandelier to fall on them. The second time was in the first movie, where, after Ash got in the way of Mewtwo and Mew's attack, he turned to stone, couldn't awaken, and the only reason he was even alive now was because of the tears and he was, both clinically and truly, up to the point of the tears, dead. So, yes, they did "Kill" Ash.

:Anyways, not focusing on him is one thing, as there were plenty of episodes in the original series (a bit too much if you really think about it, even WITHOUT Misty), that didn't actually focus on him. No, my point was they not only were he was '''not''' focused upon in the ''[[The Legend of Thunder]]'' special, but he didn't even appear in it, period. A similar thing happened when they revealed that they had plans of making a DP Anime. They unveiled a poster of it, and the way they unveiled Dawn for the first time ever made it seem as though she was not only replacing Ash, but that Ash was NOT going to be appearing in the anime. That's my point. I mean, think about it, Even IF the writers didn't give Ash the focus in every single episode, if they felt that Ash was the Be-all-end-all of the show, why would they do [[The Legend of Thunder|a special]] that didn't even have a cameo from Ash, or a Promotional Poster for DP that focused on Dawn alone, and made it seem as though Ash was going to leave the Anime, and Dawn would take up the mantle of the star of the show. I mean, in the DP poster's case, it was one of the biggest discussions at the time. Those, to me, implied that the writers viewed even Ash as expendable.

:As for that comment for RexRacer, care to suggest where else I could put this experiment then? [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 16:02, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
::Sure at the time of the poster, people may have thought Ash was going to be replaced but the writers never specifically stated it. They may have been referencing the fact that a new girl is going to play a important role in the anime not as in being the only one. And Ash could not be in the Raikou special since he was at Hoenn at the time and the special happened in Johto. And you can't say from one incident that Ash is expendable. Again, I state the example of Naruto. There have been episodes in which he hasn't appeared at all.

Sure Ash may have kinda "died" but he always came back almost immediately instead of staying dead. Which means a ''lot''. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 16:14, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

:No, The Raikou Special actually took place (And AIRED in Japan, don't bring Chronicles into it) between Hatching a Plan, and Dues and Don'ts. And it wasn't a chronicles episode (Heck, Pokemon Hoso hadn't even been aired yet.). They even referenced several parts involving the special in the Johto League when Ash fought Jackson/Vincent.). As for referencing a new girl, They had a poster showing a new character named May and they had Ash with her as well when it was first unveiled, so that cannot be it.

:As for Naruto, were these main episodes, or were these episodes from a spinoff series similar to Hoso/Chronicles? [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 16:31, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
::Okay whatever. That doesn't mean that one special is enough to disprove Ash's status. The characters of the special hasn't been given a major appearance ever since then except Vincent but he appeared for one episode anyway. And for the poster thing, Dawn is kinda more important than May was. In all the DP movies, she is given equal importance with Ash unlike May who was only given importance in '''1''' movie.

::And the Naruto episodes were the main ones. I don't know if there were spinoffs but it doesn't matter. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 16:43, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

:::I think that a member of BMGf by the name of Rhyperior pointed out that it was Ash who saved Alamos/The world in Movie 10, and that Dawn ultimately took the back seat, anyways (The only remotely important thing that she did within the movie was save Ash) as it was Ash who told Pikachu and Pachirisu to reactivate the device, according to him, thus saving the world/Alamos, and he also scolded Palkia. Also, in the Shaymin Movie, other than the fact that she and brock tried to stop the Glacier (which even then, they weren't even the ones who actually stopped it, it was Regigigas), she didn't really do much. I mean, did she pair up with Ash and the two of them together, along with Shaymin, Muten, and Giratina, utterly defeat Zero? No, Ash was the one who ended up stopping him once and for all. So, in actuality, she actually had the same role May did, meaning she never was important to begin with. And, arguably, May wasn't given any importance in any movies, considering the fact that the climax of the 9th movie had her act like a total coward and didn't even attempt to save Manaphy (Instead, it was Ash who ended up saving the day, as usual.). So, in any case, I still say that Ash was expendable, as the character didn't appear, and the special, according to many, was a test to see what Audiences would feel, which implies that they had plans to replace Ash. Plus, the Poster, not to mention. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 16:58, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
::::Ash and Dawn were both on the tower activating the music device not Ash alone. It wasn't just Ash's Pikachu but Dawn's Pachirisu that also helped in it. In the Giratina movie, both Ash ''and'' Dawn went to the Reverse World not just Ash alone. She interacted with Shaymin almost as much as Ash. And how could you say May wasn't given any importance in the 9th movie? Its not about how she acted. A main plot point in the movie was May interacting with Manaphy and treating it like its mother. Whatever she did in the movie near the end doesn't matter since their relationship was shown for a major portion of the movie.

::::And like I said before, the writers haven't made any move to remove Ash from the story. The special is a seperate entity with its characters almost never appearing again in the anime. They may have looked to have tried a few attempts to remove him but the fact that they keep bringing Ash back show that he IS important. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 17:46, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
:::::Sigh, look, if you want to mention this to anyone, tell it to Rhyperior, assuming you are also a member of BMGf, all I did was just quote him. As for the part about the Reverse World, I know they both were in the Reverse world in the first visit, but during the second visit, it was Ash, and Ash alone who defeated Zero once and for all (Dawn was stuck trying to stop the glacier that, in the end, only Regigigas was able to stop, remember?). I mean, the summary of that movie even stated this.

:::::As for your point as to how she raised and interacted with Manaphy in the movie, if the same deal with Misty interacting with Togepi wasn't even considered even remotely important despite some episodes focusing on Togepi, then, Titular pokemon or not, her interacting with Manaphy isn't important either.

:::::As for thinking he's important, so what, Brock stays on the show for barely as long as Ash has, and he's not even as important as him, so Episode lengths aren't a detemining factor. And anyways, in order for someone to be a central character, not only do they NOT replace the character, they also are unable to even think about replacing it (Which, at least twice, they did think of replacing him.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 17:58, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Ash hasn't been replaced in the main anime. That's what matters not some random special. The anime is more important than the Chronicles or the raikou special. Its even more imortant than the movies. I know Brock has been there for a good portion of the series but he doesn't do that much anyway. This is Ash's story not anyone else's since he is in every episode.

Misty has interacted with Togepi to what extent in the movies? She practically just holds it for a major portion of the movies. May did a ''lot'' with Manaphy. It also helps that Manaphy is the titular Pokémon for the movie.

:Let's see, she fed it, she discovered some of it's metronome abilities, had it fight against Pikachu at one point, heck, her Togepi was also integral to defeating Colonel Hanson and reclaiming the Togepi Paradise. Besides, if we want to get technical, what did May ''actually'' do with it. She also, for the most part, held it, and heck, when it got kidnapped, what did she do? just stand there!

:They may not have done it, but they have certainly thought about it. I mean sure, they didn't replace him, but the point was they thought about replacing him. And anyways, considering how they referred to that special in the main series, anyways, it's a main series episode in and of itself. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 18:21, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
::I am talking about the movies. Misty hasn't done anything with Togepi in a movie. Sure Togepi has had its share of screentime in the anime but only in a few episodes. Out of the entire Johto season, Togepi might have had only less than 10 episodes that truly concentrate on it. It did ''nothing'' for the rest.

::And as long as Ash isn't replaced and keep appearing in every episode, he is the main character. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 18:28, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
Just so you guys know, the fact that this conversation is taking place is hilarious. I don’t even see why we have these categories that are almost solely based on opinion; it’s not as if we don’t have enough categories already (over two ''thousand''). [[User:IIMarckus|IIMarckus]] 19:08, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
:Well, in the Movies case, I can name one thing it did. It was implied that Togepi was the one who freed Zapdos and Moltres, as we saw it doing that "metronome" arm wave thing when Tracey told everyone to get down in regards to the whole Fire, Water, and Electricity combinations = an explosion. (In case you don't recall that scene, it's because 4Kids cut the scene out when they localized the film.). Besides, what did May do with Manaphy, anyways? I mean, she didn't battle with it (which is what the fanbase thinks of when they say "doing anything" in regards to a character.). And even IF Ash is the main character, the template already listed Brock, Misty, May, Dawn, and even the likes of Tracey, Max, and Todd as main characters, so either way, he's not THE main character (He's only A main character.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 20:55, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
::Again I state, as long as Ash keeps appearing in every episode in the main anime, he is the main character. Once he gets replaced, at least for a few episodes, then I will agree with you. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 08:17, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

== The reason ==

The reason why Brock, Tracey, and Misty had information about them getting replaced is because a staff member from the show actually explained the situation. The Dawn replacing Ash thing is all fan speculation and no one from the show EVER said that they were considering replacing Ash. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 21:52, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
:So What?! The GSDS article was still fan speculation in and of itself, and yet you freely chose to keep it on despite that. Heck, the whole Misty issue was actually placed into Misty's article BEFORE Masamitsu Hidaka's revalation. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 21:58, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

== Edit War ==

Thank goodness you guys somehow resolved it...under normal circumstances, you both would be blocked, depending on the amount of edits against...keep that in mind next time... [[User:Ht14|''ht'']][[User talk:Ht14|''14'']] 14:02, 25 December 2008 (UTC)
:I was just trying to put that out due to the fact that the circumstances of whether capturing them was the cause of the events of the second movie or if it was just territorial disputes (since the film implied that both were the cause.), and besides which, none of the Other times a Legendary bird was captured did a weather anamoly occur, which I pointed out with the events of Jack Walker capturing that Zapdos and riding it, as well as the fact that, other than the lake being almost a biological hazard, it's near-death didn't impact the weather. Jmath had to insist that they controlled the weather just because Lawrence III set the chain of events in motion (Even though Zapdos explicitly told Pikachu that it was conquering Fire Island, which definitely implied that Territorial disputes were a main cause of the events.) {{Unsigned|Weedle Mchairybug}}
::It doesn't matter. We resolved it. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 14:13, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

== Pokémon ==

Pokémon is not spelled "pokemon", it's "Pokémon". [[User:Chocolate|Chocolate]] ([[User talk:Chocolate|Chat with Me]]) 23:58, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
:I'm not sure if you should changed Haunter, but if you were to do it, you msut remember to chang it on Ash's page to be consistence.--[[Bulbapedia:Project Custom Sprite|☆]][[User:Tavisource|Tavis]][[User talk:Tavisource|ource]] 00:09, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

== Your trivia ==

The fact that multiple admins have reverted your edits to High Touch should be an indication that it is not needed. Please stop adding the information, as it is not relevant to anything. --[[User:PAK Man|PAK Man]] [[User talk:PAK Man|Talk]] 22:14, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

== That trivia ==

Let's put it this way...Take a small 5-6 year old kid. Ask him/her to do some advanced mathematics. Do you really expect the kid to suddenly do it. He just won't understand what you're saying to him. Does that make him disobedient??? Same with Psyduck. I don't remember any time where Psyduck actually battled with any determination to win. Its just basically clueless and once it gets a headache, it just releases its power. Chimchar also doesn't fall in the disobedient category. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 14:54, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
:It's disobedient, no matter whether it's intentional or not. Besides, if you want to get technical, Chimchar, during the events of ''[[DP081|Chim-Charred]]'', was very similar to Psyduck, and yet is also listed in it's trivia section as being the second fire type belonging to Ash that disobeyed him (and fourth of Ash's Pokemon overall to disobey him), the first being Charizard. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 15:46, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
::It's not disobedient because of ignorance, it's disobedient because of stupidity. That's different. -[[User:Sketch|Sketch]] 15:49, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
:::Were you talking to me or to Jmath? BTW, were you for the part of relocating of that trivia to it's own bit? Because it was still disobediance, therefore, Dawn's only the second main character other than Ash to have a disobedient pokemon, regardless of whether it's clueless or deliberate. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 15:51, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
::::I know I'm just getting involved because of RC watching, but my two cents is--who cares? Will this "(Character) is the (n)th person shown to have a Pokémon, in this case (whoever), disobey" format continue for ALL disobedient Pokés? If so, that seems...kinda unnecessary. -- '''[[User:evkl|evkl]]''' [[User_talk:evkl|(need to talk?)]] 15:57, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
:::::Well, I guess you might as well remove most of those things in Dawn's Trivia section, since almost half of it just compares her to some characters. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 16:03, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Read my first post. Its NOT disobedient. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 20:46, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
:Look, Obedience means following orders. It doesn't matter if the character is rebellious or just plan clueless, if they don't follow orders, they're disobedient. it's that simple. It's a moot point anyways, since Kenji-girl, one of the high ranking members of the site, has already stated that, whether he was intending to be disobedient or not, it still counted as a disobedient pokemon, and therefore, Dawn's only the second main character aside from Ash to own a Disobedient pokemon. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 20:54, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
::Could you blame a child for being disobedient for not knowing advanced mathematics??? Then why don't people punish them or something? [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 22:58, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
:::When did Ash actually punish Charizard? when did Dawn actually punish her Mamoswine? I don't recall them actually punishing their pokemon. In fact, the only character whom I would say actually punishes pokemon would be Paul. And anyways, no matter how hard you argue, unless you have another mod on your side, it's already written that Misty already owned a disobedient pokemon before Dawn ever appeared on the show (and considering how, like you, she also thought I obssess about Misty, that's saying quite a lot.) [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 23:04, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
::::Sure...Its real smart to punish powerhouses like Mamoswine and Charizard. They are going to eat you alive! And you still haven't answered my question. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 23:08, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
:::::Mamoswine is a vegetarian, so it can't eat dawn even if it wanted to (It's based off of the Wooly Mammoth, a herbivore.). You do have a good point on Charizard, though, though then again, Paul was known to punish any of his most powerful pokemon (I mean, he probably was going to do something bad to his Torterra when found oud it was teaching Ash's Grotle how to improve itself.). Anyways, I thought that question about Charizard and Mamoswine WAS my answer. either way, please stop, as Kenji-Girl had already agreed with me about the entire thing about Misty being the first main character other than Ash to own a disobedient pokemon. If you have a problem with it, take it to her. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 23:19, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

I looked up "disobedience" and it means '''willful''' refusal to follow orders. Chimchar and Psyduck both don't fall in this category. That proves your point wrong. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 23:23, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
:even still, she still agreed with me, as, willful or not, it still didn't follow orders. Again, I suggest you take the complaint to Kenji Girl, as she was the one who agreed with my views and put the thing in. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 23:25, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
::So what? We have proof that Psyduck didn't "disobey". And Kenji-girl probably didn't know the exact meaning of the word. (I didn't until I looked it up) [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 23:31, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

== Look ==

No matter how you twist it, it's still speculation. I've protected the talk page for now so it doesn't suffer anymore clutter. Now find something useful to do besides arguing with everyone. No one agrees with you. It's speculation. You can't compare speculation to fandom and fansite articles. So knock it off already. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 02:25, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
:Even IF everyone agreed with me, it's still speculation. And besides, Wikis ALSO have a code where they DON'T allow Fanwank on them. Also, Pokeshipping is still speculation, which means it shouldn't even exist on Bulbapedia. Besides, how is that confirmation from Hidaka not speculation. Heck, if I made something up in regards to my company and what we were doing, REGARDLESS if I was a CEO or not, I'm still speculating. This only proves that you don't know what speculation is, or even if you did, you're too arrogant to actually see it. I mean, heck, even you yourself bring in speculation into articles, should you be removed due to that? [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 02:31, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

:P.S. Another thing, seeing how WPM has actually BEEN with him, AND has had actual experience with the interview, it's NOT speculation. I mean, in order for it to be speculation on WPM's part, he has to not have been there, and only have heard of it. Even IF it were actually speculation, by that logic, seeing how the writers make mistakes in their judgement most of the time, even someone who works for the Pokemon Company/Gamefaqs is speculating, seeing how even they themselves don't know what's truly in store. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 02:36, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

::Why do I even waste time talking to you?
:#Shipping has its own space. We warn that it contains speculation.
:#If Hidaka actually confirmed something by speaking, such as the reason why Tracey replaced Brock, than it's not speculation. If he has a weird reaction to a question and you assume its because he's not allowed to speak of Platinum, than it is speculation. I don't care how much experience WPM has with interviewing people. He's not psychic. His thoughts are not confirmation.
:#I know what speculation is. You apparently can't tell the difference between fanon and speculation.
:#What speculation do I bring? Please show me. Not counting Shipping of course. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 02:42, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

::What are you talking about? I wasn't saying that he wasn't allowed to speak of Platinum. I was saying he didn't know about platinum. If anyone was actually saying he was not allowed to talk about Platinum, it was J-J-M. Stop crediting/blaming things on me that I didn't even do!
::And I don't care if Hidaka WAS the original director or not, What he says still counts as speculation, because he doesn't have absolute knowledge of the franchise.
::As for things like... your speculations, other than the Shipping part, you've speculated on comparisons between sonic characters and pokemon characters. Personally, I don't see why Shipping shouldn't count. I mean, if it's speculation, it's speculation, and if the rules absolutely forebade speculation, then Shipping articles shouldn't exist, period, no matter what your stance on them is. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 02:55, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
:::LOL that's what you're talking about? Those comparisons are on my USERPAGE. Userpages are NOT part of the mainspace. Neither is Shipping. Masamitsu Hidaka IS on the mainspace. Now I get it. You clearly don't know the difference between userpages and mainpages. Hey if you want to mention your speculation on whether he knew of Platinum or not, put it on your userpage. That would be acceptable. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 03:03, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
:::@Weedle-SHIPPING HAS ITS OWN SPACE. HOW MANY TIMES DOES SHE HAVE TO TELL YOU THAT? ''IT'S NOT IN THE MAINSPACE. NEITHER ARE USERSPACES''. AND TAKE AN ENGLISH CLASS! WITH ALL THOSE GRAMMATICAL MISTAKES, NO WONDER EVERYONE HATES YOU! DAMMIT FIND SOMETHING MORE CONSTRUCTIVE TO DO THAN F***ING ARGUING WITH EVERYONE, YOU...
@KG-What userpage? He doesn't even have one. [[User:Alpha Totodile|'''Alpha''']] [[User talk:Alpha Totodile|'''Totodile''']]
::::Now now, everyone, let's respect the {{bp|code of conduct|COC}}. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 00:38, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

== éééééééééééé ==

Use the '''é'''. It's Pokémon, not Pokemon. It's right there on the character palette begging to be clicked. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 00:23, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
:Remember this. I see you don't still use the é. By not using it, you cause extra work to other people correcting your grammar. Also, "dub" and "original" are not proper nouns. '''UltimateSephiroth''' ([[User:UltimateSephiroth|about me]] · [[User talk:UltimateSephiroth|chat]] · [[Special:Contributions/UltimateSephiroth|edits]]) 21:42, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

== Your grammar ==

is absolutely horrendous. The amount of times people have had to point out your grammar mistakes--the spelling of Pokémon, the difference between it's and its, and random capitalization--is absolutely ridiculous. I speak on behalf of all of the community here at Bulbapedia: it's time for you to actually heed warnings and make improvements. If any of us don't see any honest improvement with your edits, it will become a punishable offense. You must learn the rules of grammar--because the lack of proper grammar makes this site seem like it is run by a bunch of ten-year olds. ''[[User:Maverick Nate|'''Maverick''']][[User talk:Maverick Nate|'''Nate''']]'' 15:04, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

== Reverting ==

If an edit of yours is reverted, it's a bad idea to go back and undo it. If you really feel that strongly about your edits, discuss it on the talk page. Don't get into an edit war. --[[User:PAK Man|PAK Man]] [[User talk:PAK Man|Talk]] 16:24, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
:I discussed it on DP049 with other users. In fact, it happened long before the League was even planned out. But just in case, I made a response on [[Talk:DP049]], where we did have this discussion. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 16:32, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

== Norman ==

Can you tell me where Norman actually says he is supposed to be the third Gym Leader faced? In the games and in the anime, he winds up fifth in each case, and IIRC his only reference to three (see my edit to [[Badge]]) is in AG003 saying three Pokémon are needed. If he does say he's supposed to be third, I'd like to know where because I've never seen that. If my understanding is correct, Hoenn is therefore handled by Ash and his friends like all regions before it (Norman came fifth because they were "near Petalburg" again, which doesn't make sense in the games; convenience, I guess, in the anime), and Norman's Gym requirements are the only thing that stopped him challenging there first. [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 15:52, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
:That might have been a mistake (claiming he was actually supposed to be the third gym leader, I mean). But Norman DOES state in the ending of the episode that Ash was supposed to actually challenge him later on, and then points to Rustboro as being the first gym Ash should face. That would imply that there was indeed supposed to be a specific order trainers were supposed to face the gyms, at least in Hoenn. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 15:58, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
::[https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=R3vMoSgzBIM#t=1166 Here's the episode.] I set it to start at the beginning of the final segment, but you can watch it in full if you'd like. Norman NEVER said he should be challenged later on. If you can show me where he says it, then that's fine, I just don't see what you say proven in the anime. [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 16:07, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
:::This is from the summary of the episode on this website: "Later back in front of Norman's Gym, Norman explains that he's actually a Gym Leader Ash is supposed to fight later on. The first Gym he should try is the one in Rustboro City" This is right near the end. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 16:07, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
::::I'll visit there, then. Here are Norman's lines from the ending:
::::*"Your brother does know a lot about Pokémon and just might be a big help to you."
::::*"Ash, would it be too much of a bother if Max traveled along with you and May?"
::::*"I have a little something to give the both of you: a badge case to hold your winning Gym badges." (A grammar error here, too.)
::::*"And son, this is for you."
::::*"With one of those, you'll always know exactly where you are."
::::*"I suggest that you first travel to the closest Gym from here, and that's located in Rustboro City."
::::*"You do your best!"
::::Nothing about being faced later, so I'll go edit that article too. Thanks for the tip. [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 16:16, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
Never mind, that's another Website. I think I've proven that the other Website is not reliable. Do you have a link? [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 16:17, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
:Never mind again, I've edited [[AG003]]. [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 16:20, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

== Blocked ==

Weedle, you have been blocked for a duration of seven days for your edit war on [[Mewtwo Returns]]. You are well aware that edit warring is not permitted on Bulbapedia, and that the proper course of dispute resolution is to use the article's talk page to discuss the changes in dispute. Take this time to re-familiarize yourself with Bulbapedia policy. Thank you, - [[User:Kogoro|'''Kogoro''']] '''-''' [[User talk:Kogoro|'''Talk to me''']] - 22:14, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

== Pocket Monsters: The Animation ==

Can you refer to it as ''[[Pocket Monsters: The Animation]]'' so that it shows up on the wanted pages and shows that it needs to be created? Also, do you personally have a copy of the book? --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 02:04, 20 September 2015 (UTC)
:Sure thing, I'll do that in my next edit. Also, I don't personally have a copy of the book, but I do know someone who does: http://cindysuke.tumblr.com/post/34817930237/the-facts-about-pokemon-world-lol [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 02:06, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

== The Preview Button ==
Instead of editing a page several times in a row, try using the preview button to make sure your edit looks the way you want it to. It's right next to the Save Page button. Please try it out, so as not to clog up the Recent Changes. Also, if you want to edit multiple sections of the page, make sure that you click "edit this page" at the top of the page rather than editing it by section. Thanks! --'''—★[[User:Reshii|レシイラム]]''''''[[User talk:Reshii|talk]]''' 11:16, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

== TV Ratings ==

Do you have a source for that? If you do, then state the source. Don't make other users guess and think that it's BS. If the source is Dogasu, then state that you got it from Dogasu. You have been here longer the I have to know that you should always source your information.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 04:35, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

== Serebii ==

Hi! I just want to make sure you know that we cannot take any information from Serebii as it appears you have done for [[Special:Diff/2462919|this Simisear information]]. If you see something on Serebii, make sure you can source it elsewhere first, and even then make doubly and ''triply'' sure that whatever you end up writing here still does not end up copying Serebii. Again, we ''cannot'' take things from Serebii. I hope you understand. =) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 23:21, 25 June 2016 (UTC)
:[[Special:Diff/2500010|This]]... Just to hammer this home: '''''NOTHING''''' is ever to be taken from Serebii, '''''period'''''.
:So, tell me... What is your source regarding XY137? Is it just Serebii? [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 15:05, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
::Serebii made it pretty clear that it came from Newtype Magazine. Here's what it had to say of the episode:
::"'''The Newtype magazine in Japan has revealed another new episode title, this time for the fourty-fourth episodes of Pokémon XY & Z.''' These episodes is set to air on October 6th, following another week break on September 29th. This episode features Clemont helping rebuild Lumiose City Gym after the Team Flare attack.
Episode 940: We Start at Zero! Clemont's Decision!!"
::If that doesn't qualify as a source besides Serebii, I don't know what does. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 15:20, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
:::I'm honestly just disappointed, Weedle. You have been here for a good amount of years and are still making the most simplest of mistakes. Serebii does not qualify for a source, regardless of what he says. He doesn't even post an image of the magazine scan, so no, it's not clear it came from a magazine scan. Saying something does not immediately make something true if you don't show the evidence.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 15:28, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
::::Given your comment [[Special:Diff/2499984|here]], I was also curious where you got "はじまりはゼロ！シトロンの決断！"? [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 15:31, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
:::::I got it here: http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/XY137 [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 16:53, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
::::::Pokemon Wikia isn't a credible source either, because they could add that title just like you could add it here. It isn't an official website. Once there's a picture for the title, it will be posted. [[User:Playerking95|Playerking95]] ([[User talk:Playerking95|talk]]) 16:58, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
:::::::In short, keep in mind that these things should always be ''verifiable''. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 17:02, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

I'd like to add, if your only source for English translations of new episode titles is Serebii, please don't try to use that (even changed a bit) to add the episodes here. That's still basically copying Serebii. Just leave it until someone else can make an independent translation. At worst, post the sources somewhere and let someone else create the episodes with independent translations. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 17:07, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

== PokeSpe reference ==

You are not right by saying that the implication of Silver being Giovanni's son in FR/LG and the subsequent confirmation of this fact in HG/SS is a PokeSpe reference in the games. It was the games that first mentioned the fact. PokeSpe decided to make Silver Giovanni's son only in FR/LG Chapter, which was after the release of FireRed and LeafGreen. So, it is the manga that referenced the game, not the other way 'round. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 16:14, 24 August 2016 (UTC)

== New episode pages ==

When creating a new episode page, please use the {{template|New episode}} template. Otherwise, you get copy/paste errors like with what you did for [[XY138]] and [[XY139]]. Thank you. --[[User:Carmenstar97|Carmen★]] ''[[User talk:Carmenstar97|(Talk |]] [[Special:Contributions/Carmenstar97|contribs)]]'' 13:33, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

== Linking moves ==

Whenever you're linking to a move article, it's important to use the <nowiki>{{m}}</nowiki> template, as shown, to avoid using redirects. For example, <nowiki>{{m|Dark Void}}</nowiki> is the correct usage, not <nowiki>[[Dark Void]]</nowiki>. Just so you know. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 00:16, 30 September 2018 (UTC)

== English Celebi ==

Are you playing a game set to the Japanese language or a system and game from the Japanese region? I have doubts about Celebi having English text for the Japanese region. '''[[User:Lady Ariel|Lady]] [[User talk:Lady Ariel|Ariel]]''' 02:00, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
:I'm playing an English game set to the English language and I downloaded the game from the Nintendo eShop channel on the English Nintendo 3DS. Nothing Japanese at all regarding the game (well, aside from it in general was originally made in Japan, I mean.). I also managed to [https://otnesse.tumblr.com/post/179272822979/proof-that-the-wondercard-description-is-in photograph] it as well. Sorry for it being low quality, but I'm not sure how to get it directly from the game a'la Serebii.net. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 10:01, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
:EDIT: Sorry, now I see what was going on. Shouldn't have done that, dang it. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 10:03, 21 October 2018 (UTC)

== Link templates ==

Hey! I'm going to have to encourage you to read the site's {{bp|list of link templates}} again. Using <nowiki>{{an|Rotom Pokédex}}</nowiki> or simply <nowiki>{{Rotom}}</nowiki> is highly encouraged, not <nowiki>[[Rotom Pokédex (anime)|Rotom]]</nowiki>. Thank you. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 20:24, 6 October 2019 (UTC)

== Using Serebii as a source ==

Once again, you are using Serebii as a source when you know full well that he is not a valid source. It doesn't matter if he's right, just do no use his site as your source. Period. Your source should be the official Japanese site, not someone repeating what the Japanese site is saying.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 13:49, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

== "Advantage" ==

While I acknowlege some of your Team Rocket vs. Caterpie argument, "advantage" doesn't mean that Ash was guaranteed to beat Misty; it simply means that he was objectively in a favorable situation prior to the battle being interrupted (and since this was acknowledged by both Trainers, it's not simply speculation). I decided to rewrite that particular part entirely anyway, but I just wanted to clarify that. In the future, please try to use the talk page instead of edit warring (although I admittedly shouldn't have made that last revert either, so I apologize for that).

Additionally, I never claimed that you were being biased: I actually think you removing the previous wording of "about to win the battle" was the right decision, hence why I decided to try slightly rewording it instead. However, if you're going to say things like "regardless of my views on Misty", "even IF I believed Ash was owed a genuine win", and "my own personal views on the match were irrelevant"... of course I'm going to begin to question if you're truly attempting to be impartial here (especially given your history of Misty-related edits over the past 15 years). [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 10:18, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

:Fine, I'll grant you that much regarding your points, and that your wording was better. Though to be fair, Caterpie was also in extremely low health at that time as well thanks to its earlier near-death against Pidgeotto and... well, you know the rest of that battle and how it turned out for everyone involved (and it was also fairly explicit that it was weak even before the fight against Pidgeotto, much less Team Rocket. After Ash's attempt at capturing Pidgeotto outright without weakening it first just resulted in it escaping easily, Misty reminded him that he needed to battle it first, and also specifically stated the only reason Caterpie got easily captured without a fight was because it was already weak beforehand). I might be fanatically loyal to Misty, I'll admit that much, but I still would have avoided using "advantage" even if I had the exact opposite emotional views of Misty (and in fact, back when I was still on Bulbagarden and the discussion popped up whether Ash or Misty would have won, I gave pretty firm arguments why it wasn't necessarily confirmed Ash was going to win, and made it very clear that my being a Misty fan had absolutely nothing to do with my rationale, and that if anything my rationale actually was tied far more to something that happened with Ash than it ever did with Misty and then cited that particular battle. Granted, PDL pretty much mocked my argument when I cited that battle, but still...). Yes, it's true that Starmie was explicitly low on health, but it's also true that it was still close enough to the water's edge that it merely needed to hop back in and regenerate, though it might need a bit more effort to pull it off. And I mostly had to mention that stuff repeatedly in case someone DID try to accuse me of being biased towards Misty due to past experiences on Serebii, Pokecommunity, and BMGf where they did repeatedly do that. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 02:50, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
::A bit late on this one to reply (eh, still less than 6 months), but your talk page comment for Misty's Starmie (which I replied to, but I figured it would be appropriate to go into a bit more detail here) got me to rewatch EP007 in both Japanese and English, and I believe you misremembered Staryu's situation. What Staryu was actually doing when it dived into the water was negating the usage of Stun Spore and Sleep Powder (kind of similar to Natural Cure, but with water rather than switching out), not healing itself, so the argument that Starmie could still regenerate itself in the water doesn't really hold up. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 22:46, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
:::I didn't actually mention Staryu at all in that argument (my main focus was Starmie, and if anything I didn't even CONSIDER Staryu's earlier dive into the water to alleviate itself of Stun Spore.), and for the record, Starmie's core wasn't even damaged (ie, it didn't crack. The blinking light simply meant it was low on health), which is the only way it won't be able to heal at all barring maybe a Pokemon Center. And even if we were to somehow use that rationale for how it doesn't hold up, Bye Bye Butterfree made it very explicit that Starmie (and presumably Staryu) most certainly can heal itself (and by that, I specifically mean heal its HP back upwards, not simply negating a status effect) when exposed to water, at least as long as its core was intact (there was a scene during Ash, Misty and Brock's confrontation with Team Rocket over the poached Butterfree where James used a sledgehammer on Starmie, landed a direct hit on it and sent it flying into a wall, causing it to slump down in a similar manner to its situation in Waterflowers of Cerulean City, then Misty grabbed a water cannon (presumably from within Team Rocket's hideout) and proceeded to spray a torrent on it, and then it came right back to full strength). And that's not even getting into how Starmie's Pokedex entries back then make it explicit that it can regenerate as long as its core remains intact. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 09:36, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
::::"''I didn't actually mention Staryu at all in that argument (my main focus was Starmie, and if anything I didn't even CONSIDER Staryu's earlier dive into the water to alleviate itself of Stun Spore.)''"
::::You may not have mentioned Staryu, but [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=EP007&diff=3592528&oldid=3592393 you stated here that Starmie could recover by jumping into the pool], which is what Staryu did earlier to negate Stun Spore/Sleep Powder, so I don't feel like it was unreasonable for me to assume that you used Staryu as a basis for that. If that's not the case, then I apologize.
::::"''For the record, Starmie's core wasn't even damaged (ie, it didn't crack. The blinking light simply meant it was low on health), which is the only way it won't be able to heal at all barring maybe a Pokemon Center.''"
::::I'm pretty sure my stance from the very beginning was simply that Starmie was in an objectively disadvantageous position. I never mentioned anything about its core cracking.
::::"''And even if we were to somehow use that rationale for how it doesn't hold up, Bye Bye Butterfree made it very explicit that Starmie (and presumably Staryu) most certainly can heal itself (and by that, I specifically mean heal its HP back upwards, not simply negating a status effect) when exposed to water, at least as long as its core was intact (there was a scene during Ash, Misty and Brock's confrontation with Team Rocket over the poached Butterfree where James used a sledgehammer on Starmie, landed a direct hit on it and sent it flying into a wall, causing it to slump down in a similar manner to its situation in Waterflowers of Cerulean City, then Misty grabbed a water cannon (presumably from within Team Rocket's hideout) and proceeded to spray a torrent on it, and then it came right back to full strength).''"
::::Bit of a sidenote, but it was Jessie that used the sledgehammer. As for the rest: I mentioned this on the talk page for Misty's Starmie as well, but I don't think using future episodes is the greatest counterargument. There are many instances of Pokémon displaying a certain trait for the sake of the progression of the episode, only for it to never be used again (which I'm pretty sure is also what happened here as well).
::::"''And that's not even getting into how Starmie's Pokedex entries back then make it explicit that it can regenerate as long as its core remains intact.''"
::::Those are Staryu's Pokédex entries you're thinking of, which is specifically for lost appendages rather than fully healing itself.
::::My main issue with your argument is that it's built too much on theoretical scenarios rather than what was actually presented within the episode itself. Sure, it's true that Starmie didn't "lose", but I never claimed that it did. I only stated that it was in an disadvantageous situation, which was acknowledged within the episode itself.
::::Also, you mentioned earlier that people have called you biased on Serebii, PokeCommunity, and the Bulbagarden forums. I only say this to try to offer some constructive criticism, but if there are three separate communities saying the same thing, I fear that there may be some truth within their words. If your initial talk page post on Misty's Starmie had been something like "Misty didn't really lose since the battle was interrupted, but I agree that it needs to be rewritten", I would completely understand. Instead, your post contained a fairly lengthy paragraph about the exact circumstances of the battle, theoretical ways in which the battle could have progressed, and a comparison to a separate episode. I feel like that's a bit much considering Temari44 only mentioned the Gym battle in a small part of their post. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 11:55, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
:::::"''You may not have mentioned Staryu, but [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=EP007&diff=3592528&oldid=3592393 you stated here that Starmie could recover by jumping into the pool], which is what Staryu did earlier to negate Stun Spore/Sleep Powder, so I don't feel like it was unreasonable for me to assume that you used Staryu as a basis for that. If that's not the case, then I apologize.''"
:::::I guess you could say Staryu might have been a factor, but even without Staryu, the episode Bye Bye Butterfree already made clear it can fully heal from being exposed to water. And that's not even getting into how Generation III later had Staryu and Starmie have an ability to outright heal from water type attacks (and it wouldn't be the first time they did abilities for Pokemon based on an earlier episode. See Rhydon and it having Lightning Rod as an ability in a direct reference to the infamous Aim for the Horn situation during Blaine's Gym Battle).
:::::"''I'm pretty sure my stance from the very beginning was simply that Starmie was in an objectively disadvantageous position. I never mentioned anything about its core cracking.''"
:::::It still would have been a definite factor in whether or not Starmie would have been in a disadvantageous situation or not (and I define "disadvantageous" as "absolutely no way to get out of trouble", not "small chance of getting out of trouble" but "literally 0% chance"). The only time where being exposed to water DIDN'T heal it was during the battle against Giselle when it was knocked into the pool (which, BTW, the person specifically referenced and I even agreed with him), and even there it was explicitly shown that Starmie's core had been smashed beforehand (which actually backs up its Pokedex entry if anything). If they wanted to actually indicate Misty was inevitably going to lose, they should have made sure to have Starmie's core explicitly crack from impact and then flash to imply that the core was damaged and thus cannot heal. And I realize full well they acknowledged it was that, but that unfortunately isn't enough since I've seen plenty of instances where they outright state an opponent is at a disadvantage with the person winning attempting to press the attack, only for the winning individual to end up defeated at the last second (like Tealc's fight against that fake Jaffah rebel leader for example, or to keep it contained to Pokemon like how Caterpie defeated Jessie and James, heck, how Ash turned the tide against Jessie during his Viridian Gym Match), or otherwise it being made clear afterwards that they weren't in any danger and just trying to increase drama [the latter bit I'm specifically thinking of how Gotenks in an attempt at staging a dramatic finish exaggerated how Super Buu is cleaning his clock, only for Piccolo to take it seriously and seal the Hyperbolic Time Chamber and it then being revealed after the fact that Gotenks was actually bluffing about losing meaning Piccolo blew up the entrance for nothing].). I would have said the same thing if it were Ash and Pidgeotto in their shoes (well, okay, maybe not quite to that level since unlike Starmie, Pidgeotto doesn't heal from absorbing water).
:::::"''Bit of a sidenote, but it was Jessie that used the sledgehammer. As for the rest: I mentioned this on the talk page for Misty's Starmie as well, but I don't think using future episodes is the greatest counterargument. There are many instances of Pokémon displaying a certain trait for the sake of the progression of the episode, only for it to never be used again (which I'm pretty sure is also what happened here as well).''"
:::::Fine, I stand corrected regarding who used the sledgehammer, but my point still stands. And for the record, what you used as a counterargument is a very bad argument in itself, since I can easily use that exact argument to just shut down the wiki altogether and delete all articles precisely BECAUSE they do progression and never bring it up again, thus can't qualify as facts, thus can't allow for an encyclopedia or even summaries (I'm an all or nothing kind of guy). Either way, the fact that Staryu and Starmie later on got Water Absorb would indicate they thought specifically of that scene when deciding on those abilities for them (similar to Rhydon having Lightning Rod), so more likely than not it has that ability. Heck, Misty's Starmie's article even specifically noted that it carried at the very least a similar ability to Water Absorb and cited that particular scene.
:::::"''Those are Staryu's Pokédex entries you're thinking of, which is specifically for lost appendages rather than fully healing itself.''"
:::::Being the evolved form of Staryu, I'm pretty sure Starmie probably retained that ability. Heck, its article even indicated it had regenerative abilities as well.
:::::"''My main issue with your argument is that it's built too much on theoretical scenarios rather than what was actually presented within the episode itself. Sure, it's true that Starmie didn't "lose", but I never claimed that it did. I only stated that it was in an disadvantageous situation, which was acknowledged within the episode itself.''"
:::::As I stated above, the problem is that there have been plenty of instances where they stated they were in a disadvantageous situation in an episode or even a game (both inside the Pokemon anime and even in other franchises), yet the person at a disadvantage outright prevailed against the superior opponent, so that unfortunately isn't even enough to acknowledge that bit (as when I think of disadvantageous situations, I specifically have in mind instances where there's no way to get out of trouble, and by "no way" I mean literally 0% chance of survivability, let alone prevailing.). That's why I still think the situation was very ambiguous ESPECIALLY given Starmie's later being revealed to have a similar ability to Water Absorb during the events of Bye Bye Butterfree. Heck, if anything, Ash's Caterpie came far closer to actually BEING in an explicit disadvantageous situation when he fought Ekans, Koffing, and Meowth due to having the entire deck stacked against him (aside from the illegal at the time 2-on-1 match that Team Rocket forced Ash into, their Ekans and Koffing had significantly more experience than it, plus the fact that both were Poison-types, which gave them a type advantage over his bug-type status, and they had even managed to easily take out Ash's Pidgeotto, who at that time nearly made Caterpie its lunch thanks largely to Ash's stupidity earlier, and that's not even getting into how it was close to fainting by that point thanks to that earlier battle, and even without the Pidgeotto battle was weak enough that Ash didn't even need to battle it just to capture it. Note that I said "came far closer to", not actually WAS a disadvantageous situation, because ultimately Caterpie prevailed).
:::::"''Also, you mentioned earlier that people have called you biased on Serebii, PokeCommunity, and the Bulbagarden forums. I only say this to try to offer some constructive criticism, but if there are three separate communities saying the same thing, I fear that there may be some truth within their words. If your initial talk page post on Misty's Starmie had been something like "Misty didn't really lose since the battle was interrupted, but I agree that it needs to be rewritten", I would completely understand. Instead, your post contained a fairly lengthy paragraph about the exact circumstances of the battle, theoretical ways in which the battle could have progressed, and a comparison to a separate episode. I feel like that's a bit much considering Temari44 only mentioned the Gym battle in a small part of their post.''"
:::::Hey, I tend to get very detailed in my replies. It's basically a quirk of mine due to both my aspergers and also my parents specifically demanding I get more detailed in my answers rather than saying "just because", "I felt like it", or even going extremely general about who "they" are when I say "people". As far as that big about Bulbapedia, Pokecommunity, and Serebii.net, usually it's just the same people who happen to be members of all three sites, and either way, just because three entities claim something doesn't necessarily make it true. Just ask the coverage about the Vietnam War by the major networks. All showed the worst aspects about Vietnam, yet it eventually came to light that all of them, especially the so-called "most trusted man in America" Walter Cronkite, were extremely biased against the war and in Cronkite's case may have even up and out lied through his teeth during the Tet offensive. A similar story can be shown with the Trayvon Martin case. And I only replied in that sense because he specifically said that Misty lost that battle (and I wasn't even disagreeing with his overall argument that Misty's Starmie was weak. If anything, I fully agreed with his argument, including its loss against Giselle's Graveler, and only had a minor quibble with Misty's Starmie being stated to have lost the Cerulean Gym battle, and that's only because there was literally nothing to suggest it lost before Team Rocket interfered.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 21:36, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
::::::"''I guess you could say Staryu might have been a factor, but even without Staryu, the episode Bye Bye Butterfree already made clear it can fully heal from being exposed to water. And that's not even getting into how Generation III later had Staryu and Starmie have an ability to outright heal from water type attacks (and it wouldn't be the first time they did abilities for Pokemon based on an earlier episode. See Rhydon and it having Lightning Rod as an ability in a direct reference to the infamous Aim for the Horn situation during Blaine's Gym Battle).''"
::::::Neither Staryu nor Starmie have Water Absorb as a possible Ability.
::::::"''It still would have been a definite factor in whether or not Starmie would have been in a disadvantageous situation or not (and I define "disadvantageous" as "absolutely no way to get out of trouble", not "small chance of getting out of trouble" but "literally 0% chance").''"
::::::The definition of disadvantage is "an unfavorable circumstance or condition that reduces the chances of success or effectiveness"; it does ''not'' mean "0% chance of prevailing". Misty's Starmie was explicitly stated to be low on energy (but not actually knocked out), which means it was at a disadvantage.
::::::"''The only time where being exposed to water DIDN'T heal it was during the battle against Giselle when it was knocked into the pool (which, BTW, the person specifically referenced and I even agreed with him), and even there it was explicitly shown that Starmie's core had been smashed beforehand (which actually backs up its Pokedex entry if anything).''"
::::::I'm fairly sure that this "water healing" attribute was only ever displayed once in EP021. I don't think it makes a lot of sense to say "the only time where being exposed to water DIDN'T heal it" when it only happened ''once''.
::::::"''If they wanted to actually indicate Misty was inevitably going to lose, they should have made sure to have Starmie's core explicitly crack from impact and then flash to imply that the core was damaged and thus cannot heal. And I realize full well they acknowledged it was that, but that unfortunately isn't enough since I've seen plenty of instances where they outright state an opponent is at a disadvantage with the person winning attempting to press the attack, only for the winning individual to end up defeated at the last second (like Tealc's fight against that fake Jaffah rebel leader for example, or to keep it contained to Pokemon like how Caterpie defeated Jessie and James, heck, how Ash turned the tide against Jessie during his Viridian Gym Match), or otherwise it being made clear afterwards that they weren't in any danger and just trying to increase drama [the latter bit I'm specifically thinking of how Gotenks in an attempt at staging a dramatic finish exaggerated how Super Buu is cleaning his clock, only for Piccolo to take it seriously and seal the Hyperbolic Time Chamber and it then being revealed after the fact that Gotenks was actually bluffing about losing meaning Piccolo blew up the entrance for nothing].). I would have said the same thing if it were Ash and Pidgeotto in their shoes (well, okay, maybe not quite to that level since unlike Starmie, Pidgeotto doesn't heal from absorbing water).''"
::::::Again, a disadvantage is not an unwinnable situation. I also don't think the Gotenks situation is comparable since it was made clear to the readers/viewers that he was faking it even before Piccolo destroyed the door (and truth be told, Gotenks ultimately ''did'' fail to beat Super Buu because he's an idiot and refused to actually take the fight seriously until much later). [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 22:59, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
::::::"''Fine, I stand corrected regarding who used the sledgehammer, but my point still stands. And for the record, what you used as a counterargument is a very bad argument in itself, since I can easily use that exact argument to just shut down the wiki altogether and delete all articles precisely BECAUSE they do progression and never bring it up again, thus can't qualify as facts, thus can't allow for an encyclopedia or even summaries (I'm an all or nothing kind of guy).''"
::::::I'm sorry, but I feel like this is a huge stretch. My argument is based on information specifically presented in the episode itself, while yours is theorizing on how Misty could still make a comeback based on information ''not'' presented in the episode. I don't see how Starmie displaying a one-time attribute of being rejuvenated from a water blast in a later episode should be used as an argument for the Gym battle; Misty never said anything like "If I can just get Starmie into the water, I still have a chance".
::::::"''Either way, the fact that Staryu and Starmie later on got Water Absorb would indicate they thought specifically of that scene when deciding on those abilities for them (similar to Rhydon having Lightning Rod), so more likely than not it has that ability. Heck, Misty's Starmie's article even specifically noted that it carried at the very least a similar ability to Water Absorb and cited that particular scene.''""
::::::Just to reiterate: '''Neither Staryu nor Starmie have Water Absorb as a possible Ability'''. Their regular abilities are Illuminate and Natural Cure, along with gaining Analytic as a Hidden Ability starting with Gen V.
::::::"''Being the evolved form of Staryu, I'm pretty sure Starmie probably retained that ability. Heck, its article even indicated it had regenerative abilities as well.''"
::::::Again, this is used in the context of lost body parts. It's certainly not something like an immediate healing factor.
::::::"''As I stated above, the problem is that there have been plenty of instances where they stated they were in a disadvantageous situation in an episode or even a game (both inside the Pokemon anime and even in other franchises), yet the person at a disadvantage outright prevailed against the superior opponent, so that unfortunately isn't even enough to acknowledge that bit (as when I think of disadvantageous situations, I specifically have in mind instances where there's no way to get out of trouble, and by "no way" I mean literally 0% chance of survivability, let alone prevailing.). That's why I still think the situation was very ambiguous ESPECIALLY given Starmie's later being revealed to have a similar ability to Water Absorb during the events of Bye Bye Butterfree. Heck, if anything, Ash's Caterpie came far closer to actually BEING in an explicit disadvantageous situation when he fought Ekans, Koffing, and Meowth due to having the entire deck stacked against him (aside from the illegal at the time 2-on-1 match that Team Rocket forced Ash into, their Ekans and Koffing had significantly more experience than it, plus the fact that both were Poison-types, which gave them a type advantage over his bug-type status, and they had even managed to easily take out Ash's Pidgeotto, who at that time nearly made Caterpie its lunch thanks largely to Ash's stupidity earlier, and that's not even getting into how it was close to fainting by that point thanks to that earlier battle, and even without the Pidgeotto battle was weak enough that Ash didn't even need to battle it just to capture it. Note that I said "came far closer to", not actually WAS a disadvantageous situation, because ultimately Caterpie prevailed).''"
::::::Again, a disadvantage is not an unwinnable situation, just a situation that is harder to win from. There's nothing wrong with saying that Starmie was at a disadvantage, since that's what was displayed and stated within the episode itself.
::::::"''Hey, I tend to get very detailed in my replies. It's basically a quirk of mine due to both my aspergers and also my parents specifically demanding I get more detailed in my answers rather than saying "just because", "I felt like it", or even going extremely general about who "they" are when I say "people". As far as that big about Bulbapedia, Pokecommunity, and Serebii.net, usually it's just the same people who happen to be members of all three sites, and either way, just because three entities claim something doesn't necessarily make it true. '''Just ask the coverage about the Vietnam War by the major networks. All showed the worst aspects about Vietnam, yet it eventually came to light that all of them, especially the so-called "most trusted man in America" Walter Cronkite, were extremely biased against the war and in Cronkite's case may have even up and out lied through his teeth during the Tet offensive. A similar story can be shown with the Trayvon Martin case.'''''"
::::::This is an ''extreme'' comparison. One person's conduct on the Internet in regards to a fictional character from an anime is not at all equivalent to '''war or murder'''. At the very least, it's undeniable that a lot of conflict that you've run into on these sites are related to Misty (honestly, I can just look at earlier posts on this very talk page even before this particular discussion started). It's one thing to claim that you're not being biased and another to actually showcase that you're not being biased. You even admitted earlier that you're "fanatically loyal to Misty". [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 22:59, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
:::::::If I were to be biased regarding Misty, I'd have rewritten every loss she had to be eradicated and thus indicated she never lost (either that, or if I genuinely hated Misty, rewrite everything to outright EXAGGERATE her loss ratio to imply she has a similarly bad track record to Team Rocket). Not only did I not do that, I actually agreed with the guy who tried to defend Starmie's overall track record that the Giselle bit WAS indeed a loss (a story-required loss, yes, but a loss nonetheless, and if I agreed that the Giselle bit was a loss, that is indeed showcasing I'm NOT biased. Someone who truly IS biased towards Misty in terms of liking her would never agree to her having a single loss at all). No, I'm not being biased, even if I do have fanatical loyalty to Misty (someone who's truly biased would literally rewrite the entire wiki to either avoid listing any, and I do mean literally ANY flaws she might have, or exaggerate her flaws to such a degree that they come across as the absolute worst person to ever live). Heck, I have an absolute hatred of May and to a lesser extent Dawn, yet you don't see me editing their articles to paint them in the absolute worst light imaginable (which WOULD be the very definition of bias, BTW). If anything, I AM attempting to be VERY objective in my edits especially regarding Misty. Also, a huge amount of stuff on here literally only happened in single episodes, or so few episodes that they barely even matter, yet they're still noted as actually having happened as if they had any importance, so that's far from a rebuttal regarding whether or not Starmie could indeed heal from it (and once is more than enough to indicate it would happen). I might as well also point out that I focus on the connections between generalities and details, so I DON'T limit myself to whether it's demonstrated in a single episode or not. Otherwise, Ash's Ho-Oh connection is meaningless since they never bring it up since the beginning of DP, and his Aura abilities also only showed up a few times in DP. And I do agree ultimately Misty's Starmie was weakened, but we have no conclusive proof that it would have lost, period, hence why I tried to rewrite it the way I did earlier as that's the only actual way to write it. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 02:13, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
::::::::Everything that you're describing is simply bias taken to the logical extreme (i.e. to the point of being completely unreasonable), which is an exaggeration and doesn't actually disprove whether or not you're partial to Misty (which I think is fairly obvious at this point). Again, what's important in this instance is the info presented in the episode itself, which is less speculatory than thinking of ways that Misty "could" win or not. Again, I never said she actually lost. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 03:27, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

== Pokémon ==

When writing "Pokémon" or "Poké", don't forget to write the "e" as "é". Also, the word "Trainer" is capitalized. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 00:06, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

== Sensational Sisters ==

There's no indication in Japanese or English that Misty "quit" being a Gym Leader; she simply says that she left her sisters in charge of the Gym. Please don't just plainly revert me and discuss things on the talk page first. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 12:13, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
:I watched both Japanese with Subs and the English dub with Closed Captioning, and this is what she says when the topic is brought up:
:"When I saw you [Satoshi] battling, I just couldn’t sit still! So I left Hanada Gym to my sisters and set off on a journey."
:"After watching your [Ash's] battle, I just couldn't stay still a second longer! And so, I left the [Cerulean] Gym with my sisters in charge, and started a journey!"
:And while it's true that it doesn't use the exact word "quit" in there, it's pretty clear that's what's being implied especially when past episodes have made it clear that you can't engage in a Pokemon Journey while you're a Gym Leader (in fact, such a restraint was made explicit as early as [[EP005|Showdown at Pewter City]] from both Flint AND Brock, and I think Candace and Zoey both alluded to this restraint in that episode of Diamond and Pearl.). Besides, no one talks like that about a position they simply were on temporary leave from (I sure don't). That sounds more like the kind of talk a guy gives when he's about to quit his job for a better one. A good contrast would be her reappearance in Alola (second one) where she explicitly stated that a major part of why she went to Alola besides visiting Ash was to take a break from the swarms of Gym Challengers that were arriving. Either way, she definitely never mentioned the gym at all in JN147, much less resuming gym duties (the most we got was Brock eagerly telling Misty to say hi to her sisters for him before Croagunk toxic stabbed him), and considering most instances she either explicitly mentions she has to resume gym duties when she departs (Mirage Kingdom Arc, the Kanto, Alola arc) or otherwise its made very clear she had to resume Gym Duties (beginning of Battle Frontier where Daisy basically called Misty and threatened to hand badges out again if she didn't return, Mastermind as well since it's made explicit she was only there due to being invited alongside Oak and was most likely going to return to the Gym afterward), the fact that she makes absolutely NO mention of gym duties at all means she most likely wasn't going back to being a Gym Leader that time. Let's not forget, Brock also returned to Pewter City in the same episode, and he's repeatedly stated to no longer be a Gym Leader and thus obviously wasn't going to be resuming gym duties. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 12:29, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
::Most of what you've outlined is your own headcanon with no real proof that she quit being a Gym Leader, which you also just admitted to.
::''"I watched both Japanese with Subs and the English dub with Closed Captioning, and this is what she says when the topic is brought up:''
::''"When I saw you [Satoshi] battling, I just couldn’t sit still! So I left Hanada Gym to my sisters and set off on a journey."''
::''"After watching your [Ash's] battle, I just couldn't stay still a second longer! And so, I left the [Cerulean] Gym with my sisters in charge, and started a journey!"''
::Yes, I also watched both. Again, there's no mention of her quitting.
::"''And while it's true that it doesn't use the exact word "quit" in there, it's pretty clear that's what's being implied especially when past episodes have made it clear that you can't engage in a Pokemon Journey while you're a Gym Leader (in fact, such a restraint was made explicit as early as [[EP005|Showdown at Pewter City]] from both Flint AND Brock, and I think Candace and Zoey both alluded to this restraint in that episode of Diamond and Pearl.).''"
::I'm pretty sure that you just can't leave a Gym '''unattended''' without another Gym Leader looking after it. Brock was able to leave on a journey after leaving Pewter Gym in Flint's care (and Lt. Surge also left Vermilion Gym in Visquez's care while he went on his own journey). Both Flint and Brock were considered official Gym Leaders even as late as DPS02.
::"''Besides, no one talks like that about a position they simply were on temporary leave from (I sure don't). That sounds more like the kind of talk a guy gives when he's about to quit his job for a better one. A good contrast would be her reappearance in Alola (second one) where she explicitly stated that a major part of why she went to Alola besides visiting Ash was to take a break from the swarms of Gym Challengers that were arriving.''"
::Firstly, you can't claim that "no one talks like that about a position they simply were on temporary leave from" when plenty of people watched that episode without ever getting the impression that she "quit". Secondly, this is speculation.
::"''Either way, she definitely never mentioned the gym at all in JN147, much less resuming gym duties (the most we got was Brock eagerly telling Misty to say hi to her sisters for him before Croagunk toxic stabbed him), and considering most instances she either explicitly mentions she has to resume gym duties when she departs (Mirage Kingdom Arc, the Kanto, Alola arc) or otherwise its made very clear she had to resume Gym Duties (beginning of Battle Frontier where Daisy basically called Misty and threatened to hand badges out again if she didn't return, Mastermind as well since it's made explicit she was only there due to being invited alongside Oak and was most likely going to return to the Gym afterward), the fact that she makes absolutely NO mention of gym duties at all means she most likely wasn't going back to being a Gym Leader that time. Let's not forget, Brock also returned to Pewter City in the same episode, and he's repeatedly stated to no longer be a Gym Leader and thus obviously wasn't going to be resuming gym duties.''"
::Most of this is speculation (outside of her not mentioning resuming Gym Leader duties). However, my reworded edit didn't say that she resumed her duties, just that her sisters look after the Gym when she's away.
::I also maintain that you should not have reverted me twice before going to the talk page. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 13:16, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
:::Actually, Brock was repeatedly considered an ex-Gym Leader/Former Gym Leader by the Alola, Kanto arc (more specifically, the episode where Brock and Misty show them the ropes at Cerulean Gym regarding gym battles), which was well after the events of DPS02. I'd know, I watched it on PokemonTV when it came out with closed captioning. Even made particular note about that bit. Only Misty was specifically stated to be an actual current Gym Leader in that episode. And last I checked, Giovanni didn't explicitly make Jessie, James and Meowth Gym Leaders (they merely assumed they became Gym Leaders) and if anything his orders to them made it sound as though he specifically wanted them to guard against a possible attack on the Gym ("Use these [Pokemon] in the event of an emergency!"). And as far as Lt. Surge is concerned, quite frankly, ESPECIALLY after Brock was explicitly considered a former Gym Leader, ie, one who is no longer a gym leader at all, that means Lt. Surge isn't a gym leader by that point either (besides, Flint's not even a Gym Leader anymore, Forrest is, and most certainly was an official one by DPS02.). And the whole "unattended" issue is its own problem since, ignoring how Giovanni's apparently running Team Rocket without actually BEING at the gym prior to Battle of the Badge (afterwards, he most likely quit the position), we had Fantina being absent from the gym for a good long while, being absent TWICE, in fact, both times when Ash tried to challenge her, and didn't even get a slap on the wrist for it, much less had her gym priviledges revoked for it. And I still stand by my statement that there's no way Misty would say something like that if she wasn't quitting the position. And BTW, that stuff I described wasn't headcanon. That was evidence directly from the episode and related episodes. Want to know what ACTUAL headcanon is? Misty's parents being murdered by Team Rocket members and her nearly being killed by them as a baby, and then being adopted by the Sensational Sisters, stuff that had literally no basis whatsoever from the series and something I made up in its entirety (and yes, I actually DID write that as a fanfic). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 13:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
::::"''Actually, Brock was repeatedly considered an ex-Gym Leader/Former Gym Leader by the Alola, Kanto arc (more specifically, the episode where Brock and Misty show them the ropes at Cerulean Gym regarding gym battles), which was well after the events of DPS02. I'd know, I watched it on PokemonTV when it came out with closed captioning. Even made particular note about that bit. Only Misty was specifically stated to be an actual current Gym Leader in that episode.''"
::::None of this has any relevance to what I was talking about.
::::"''And last I checked, Giovanni didn't explicitly make Jessie, James and Meowth Gym Leaders (they merely assumed they became Gym Leaders) and if anything his orders to them made it sound as though he specifically wanted them to guard against a possible attack on the Gym ("Use these [Pokemon] in the event of an emergency!").''"
::::I never even brought up Viridian Gym since its circumstances are much different from other Gyms.
::::"''And as far as Lt. Surge is concerned, quite frankly, ESPECIALLY after Brock was explicitly considered a former Gym Leader, ie, one who is no longer a gym leader at all, that means Lt. Surge isn't a gym leader by that point either (besides, Flint's not even a Gym Leader anymore, Forrest is, and most certainly was an official one by DPS02.). And the whole "unattended" issue is its own problem since, ignoring how Giovanni's apparently running Team Rocket without actually BEING at the gym prior to Battle of the Badge (afterwards, he most likely quit the position), we had Fantina being absent from the gym for a good long while, being absent TWICE, in fact, both times when Ash tried to challenge her, and didn't even get a slap on the wrist for it, much less had her gym priviledges revoked for it.''"
::::First of all, Visquez is referred to outright as a substitute Gym Leader for Lt. Surge, meaning Lt. Surge is definitely still a Gym Leader. This leads to my second point...
::::You're quite mistaken on several things regarding the status of the Pewter Gym Leader, as well as the restrictions on Gym Leaders traveling. Brock left Pewter Gym to Flint in order to travel with Ash for a lengthy amount of time and was STILL considered an official Gym Leader by DPS02 as far as the Pokémon Inspection Agency was concerned. The Nurse Joy from said agency explicitly refused to battle Forrest at first, and would only accept a battle from Brock or Flint (meaning that Flint was ''also'' still considered an official Gym Leader). While Forrest had been conducting Gym battles prior to this, he was not the ''official'' Gym Leader since Flint never delivered the paperwork to officiate the change, and only obtained the title during the events of the episode itself.
::::Between Brock leaving Pewter Gym to Flint (again, both of them still had their titles by DPS02), Lt. Surge leaving Vermilion Gym to Visquez, and Clemont leaving Lumiose Gym to Clembot, there's no indication that Gym Leaders will lose their titles just because they decided to travel, provided that someone is running the Gym (and even then, Fantina was never penalized for being absent, as you've already mentioned). Even Misty already had the title of Gym Leader prior to the beginning of the series.
::::"''And I still stand by my statement that there's no way Misty would say something like that if she wasn't quitting the position.''"
::::Literally nothing about her dialogue indicates that she "quit". I have no idea why you're so convinced otherwise.
::::"''And BTW, that stuff I described wasn't headcanon. That was evidence directly from the episode and related episodes. Want to know what ACTUAL headcanon is? Misty's parents being murdered by Team Rocket members and her nearly being killed by them as a baby, and then being adopted by the Sensational Sisters, stuff that had literally no basis whatsoever from the series and something I made up in its entirety (and yes, I actually DID write that as a fanfic).''"
::::Your personal interpretation of events is still headcanon. I don't know what you're trying to prove here by talking about your fanfiction. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 16:29, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
:::::The first bit actually has quite a bit of relevance, since you stated Brock and Flint were both Gym Leaders, and I was pointing out that Brock WASN'T considered a Gym Leader by that episode (the Alola, Kanto Gym episode). They wouldn't call him a "former" Gym Leader if he still was one, as former means he no longer is one in any capacity.
:::::But, fine, we'll keep it to your rendition, but I'm doubtful they'd have Misty make that kind of emphasis regarding her resuming her journey if she was still an active gym leader (even with Lt. Surge, he had to specifically confer it onto Vasquez, and going by DPS02, such had to be done formally to the PIA's knowledge for it to stick.). Either way, I'm still rewording it a bit to note that she took over as the primary Gym Leader due to her status as Gym Leader being made apparent as early as EP007, both English Dub and Japanese version, which her sisters didn't even deny, which you yourself pointed out.
:::::And my point with the fanfic bit is defining precisely what "headcanon" is. And what I pointed out from the episodes is NOT "headcanon", as it's literally what's shown in the Episode, and what is said in there. If I were to go by my own personal interpretations on an episode, I'd even go as far as to state blatantly false stuff like saying Misty torched the gym when she left just because, hey, I imagined (and by definition interpreted) her doing that before she left, despite it never being shown or even alluded to (not to mention would blatantly be out of character for Misty as she's characterized in the anime). If I were to do that, THEN you can denounce me as engaging in "headcanon." Otherwise, don't. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 19:43, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

User talk:Weedle Mchairybug

2024-06-15T19:43:24Z

Weedle Mchairybug: /* Sensational Sisters */

Psst. Capitalize your sentences. Don't capitalize random words that aren't important. Follow the {{bp|manual of style}} and good ol' English grammar. And accent that é in Pokémon! '''[[User:TTEchidna|TTE]][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 23:23, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

As {{u|TTEchidna}} said, Capitalize your sentences! And where did you get the idea that Misty was the champion of the Togepi competition? IT WASN'T REAL! It was a trap set by Team Rocket so that they could steal her Togepi for [[Colonel Hansen]]. --[[Special:Contributions/Kenji-girl|☆]][[Tracey Sketchit|ケンジ]][[User:Kenji-girl|ガール]] 21:53, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

WOW!!! Though your new, you put up a very good, strong point in arguements! I congratulate you on that! You should start making edits on regular pages, not just talk pages. Good Job!!! --'''[[User:Theryguy512|Theryguy]][[User:Theryguy512/Contribution Page|5]][[User:Theryguy512/Mission Page|1]][[User:Theryguy512/Games|2]]''' 22:21, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

== Errors ==

I really don't think they are errors, Ash has a long journey that's still going, you can't expect him to remember every moment that happened to him. [[User:TheBlazikenMaster|TheBlazikenMaster]] 15:00, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, yeah, but May's was just beginning and the Rubello convention was just after the Fallabor contest, so that same logic can't be applied there. And anyways, it's not that they HAVE to remember everything, but that doesn't mean they should act as though they never heard of it. I mean, that's like forgetting the day of your birth. Besides, how can he forget about a pokemon he owned?![[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 15:16, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
:You do realize its just a tv show. So the writers forgot to have him remember something. Thats an error.[[User:Darth Cookie Monster|Emperor's Cookies]] 15:20, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
::Ok, it fit under error, but just memory error. I still think it's not error as in "senseless". Ok, I am keeping those in the articles as it might look interesting. But I still think the word "forget" is a better way to describe it than "acted like he never heard of...", since that's what's happening, if you act like something never happens the best way to describe it is with the word forget. I am not planning on removing from [[EP233]] or [[AG072]], don't worry. But I still think the word forget is a better way to word it than "acts like he's never heard of". Besides, Ash only had the Primeape for a few episodes, I'm not surprised he forgot about it. [[User:TheBlazikenMaster|TheBlazikenMaster]] 21:14, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

== Misty's Togetic ==

Ok, u win, just fix the grammar!--[[User:Kuki|Kuki]][[User talk:Kuki|Talk]] 12:17, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
:Done and done. Also, thanks. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 12:24, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

== Brock: Only character who looks Japanese ==

WRONG! It's him, Flint, and the Harrison Kids!--[[User:Kuki|Kuki]][[User talk:Kuki|Talk]] 15:09, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Sigh, let me clarify, Brock is the only one of the MAIN characters who looked Japanese. Flint, his siblings, Harrison Kids, Ninetales owner, Suziko, and that Mime jr/Bonsly show director were either side characters or one-shots. If you edited it, I'll revert the edit and make sure I clarified what I was trying to convey
[[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 15:15, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

== Movie 11 ==
I am going to overlook the fact that you overrode an editorial member's contribution without even paying attention to whether or not it supported your point (for instance, you deleted the paragraph in which I stated that the movies marks Origine Forme and Sky Forme's debuts; how is that controversial?). It is childish conduct, but I am used to it by now.

You should have realized that the content I deleted was all ''conjecture''; I couldn't have very well stated erroneous or unfounded information when I only removed other members' conjecture, could I? It may be true that when the first movie was revealed we had good reason to believe that Palkia would tag along with Dialga, but even back then that was not clearly implied. Since then, Dialga and Regigigas have been shown to have some role in the movie on numerous occasions, whereas Palkia has all but been forgotten. As for the new Pokémon, early toy advertisements led some to believe that the unrevealed Pokémon would pertain to the next generation. Since then, Sky Forme has been unveiled and confirmed to be that very same unrevealed Pokémon, leaving no viable reason to suspect that that speculation could still have merit.

All of the above warranted the deletion of the conjecture from the page as soon as last month. But I have refrained from doing so because I knew that certain members' obstinacy could prove problematic. However, by now circumstances have changed due to the fact that the movie has premiered in an early showing in a limited number of Japanese theaters. We already have a synopsis that may not be full-fledged, but is good enough to remove doubt on the subject of Palkia and new Pokémon: They are nowhere to be seen. --[[User:Unown Lord|Unown Lord]] 09:13, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

== Try not to be so biased... ==

Even if Hidaka's statement did sound kinda sexist, well, shit, it's true. Have you ''seen'' the amount of 34 there is of Pokémon, and not just of the human characters? I'm sure you have. Face it, older fans are complete pervs, and it's not like giving Misty short shorts, May a huge rack, and Dawn a short skirt isn't just as sexist. Heck, you couldn't even PLAY as a girl until Crystal! It's not that they're being sexist; it's that they have the internet and know of all the stuff out there... and so therefore, like in ''[[DP039|Steamboat Willies]]'', fanservice, fanservice, fanservice.

Anyway, I reworded the statement, hoping to be more NPOV. Now I'm gonna go wash my keyboard off, because I don't wanna start becoming one of those acronym-throwing Wikipedos. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 23:22, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

:Actually, if I was being biased, I would have only inserted it into Misty's article, and not even have bothered to insert it in May and Dawns articles. Besides, technically, you can play as a girl before Kris, since Misty was playable in Pokemon Puzzle League. And since Love hina comes to mind, in my mindset, Fanservice = sexist. And anyways, May and Dawn were even MORE Fanservicey than Misty (I go by the definition that it's only fanservicey if the person clearly enjoys doing the scandalous thing, or at least implies the enjoyment [Like the majority of the characters in LH, for example.].). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 23:53, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

::I've said this already, but you do not control the definitions of words. Society does. Especially on a wiki, it's important to rely on objective definitions rather than subjective opinions. And even if we go by your definition, Misty clearly enjoyed showing off her body in the Porta Vista Beauty Contest, dressing in that Goldeen swimsuit, and in that mermaid costume, and I don't recall Dawn doing anything "scandalous" on purpose. --[[User:PsychoRobo|PsychoRobo]] 17:09, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

:::No, Misty DIDN'T enjoy the Porta Vista Beauty Contest. She said "It's so degrading, but I need the money" when having to do it, which meant that she didn't like showing off like a playboy model. Also, in regards to the Goldeen outfit, Misty ALSO didn't enjoy it either. She said something like "at least they aren't taking notice of me", which implied she didn't really like the situation she was in (much less having to wear that outfit.). The Mermaid Outfit, she didn't really like having to wear it (ESP. in "The Misty Mermaid"), especially considering that the only reason she did the part was because her sisters set her up (BTW, she refused several times, but eventually relented when she realized her sisters needed help in regards to it). Also, the only reason she agreed to wear the outfit in "Cerulean Blues" was to try and calm down Gyarados. that's FAR Different compared to something like... Oh, I don't know, May's clear enjoyment of stripping on the beach, or Kanako Urashima's complete gladness of stripping (and even doing it in front of her brother at one point.

:::As for what Dawn did that was scandalous, she dressed up as a French Maid (which was a common Japanese Fetish), among other things.[[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 18:46, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Main series games only--[[User:Kuki|Kuki]][[User talk:Kuki|Talk]] 23:53, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

::::Dude, who ''doesn't'' enjoy going to the beach? Besides, is May supposed to wear her regular clothes and GO SWIMMING? And don't forget, Ash wore those clothes too. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 00:56, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

:::::I was referring to the swimsuit contest, since THAT was what you referenced. Also, yes, it's a bit impractical for her to wear her regular clothes and go swimming at the same time, but that doesn't mean she should have stripped in a strip-tease fashion, with her brother practically begging for her to stop doing it, and both he and ash being embarrassed. It's not the question of whether they enjoy going to the beach or not, it's whether they enjoying causing a scandal or not. If you try to disrupt this one more time, I WILL end up being forced to post Love Hina Pics to try and prove what exactly I meant by Fanserviced girls enjoying doing scandalous things. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 01:18, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

::::::I've come to realize that that's what anime does. They're basically all the same. They make the girls into fanservice. Look at YuGiOh GX. The guys wear respectable uniforms while the girls trot around in mini skirts with huge breasts. Come to think of it, Pokémon is being pretty lenient when it comes to fanservice compared to other animes. Not all of the girls have huge breasts unless they are older women (Lorelei and Prof. Ivy). --[[Special:Contributions/Kenji-girl|☆]][[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 01:23, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

::::::: May also has the racks as well, which, along with the other things, makes me want to stop it. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 01:29, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

::::::::Pffsst. You call that a rack? I don't get why people think May's boobs are big. That's just my opinion. --[[Special:Contributions/Kenji-girl|☆]][[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 01:32, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

:::::::::Maybe they aren't as big as Prima's, but they are definitely far too large for her age. I mean, ask her side profile pictures if you don't believe me. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 01:33, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Love Hina pics? If I was more of the male Internet user stereotype, I'd jump for joy at the prospect, but at least someone else might garner "enjoyment" out of them. In the meantime, I'll prepare for the event by giving you a picture of Slave Leia (from Star Wars Episode VI) as soon as I'm back on Bulbagarden forums, because obviously it is not fanservice because she obviously did not enjoy it and it did serve a more meaningful purpose than showing off Carrie Fisher's sweet bod.

Crikey, you make such a big deal out of the "stripping" scene. If anything, it was Max's fault for suggesting that it was striptease in the first place, because, oh, maybe changing into swimsuits on the beach is normal? Besides, American cartoons are arguably worse with these kind of jokes, because several episodes have little boys running around naked (Dexter's Laboratory and The Fairly OddParents, as examples). And yes, controversy over children's TV shows have been done to death already in North America, so I guess you're out of a job when it comes to American cartoons. And I suspect (directed at Kenji-girl) that people think May's boobs are big because this is the Internet, where everything is blown out of proportion.

I laughed at your claim that Dawn dressing up as a French maid was scandalous. Okay, so Ash also dressing up as a maid is not scandalous? What about Ash's recent Tarzan outfit (check Bulbagarden's Ash Club for details)? Or are you being sexist against males by suggesting they can't be hot too? --[[User:PsychoRobo|PsychoRobo]] 15:31, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

:Look, I don't enjoy those things anymore than you do. I used that as a way to try and stop you from doing that (mocking me).

:Also, everyone else made a big deal out of the striptease as well! And anyways, blame the writers as well, since they set it up as a striptease as well. And also blame Ash for looking embarrased about what he just saw. and anyways, MOST people wear an undershirt when they go to the beach. They DON'T, however, go to the beach in their regular clothes and take them off in front of everyone. also, I barely even WATCH Fairly OddParents (as a matter of fact, my parents, as well as I, avoided that show like the plague for the same reasons they mostly avoid the Simpsons.), and while I used to watch Dexters Laboratory, I started to hate it when they did that musical episode.

:and another thing, an entire THREAD was made in regards to how Pokemon was becoming more fetishish and used Dawn's Cheerleader and Maid costumes as an example. I'll eliminate every single sexist action on this planet, male and female alike. Besides, how can I be sexist with my own gender? By being sexist towards males, I'm being sexist towards myself. And anyways, Ash didn't even WANT to wear the Maids outfit, as you can tell by his blushing out of humiliation.

:I have warned you that if you don't stop mocking me, I WILL be forced to post those pics if it stops you. And I will act on it, even though I feel as though this is a mistake. I have hated these pics, but they prove my point as to how degrading fanservice is, and most importantly, how the characters in question actually DO enjoy causing this scandal. You have brought this upon yourself...
:However, I'll be a bit merciful and delay it until I successfully upload the first part of my video, which, as soon as I download Version 12 of Pinnacle, shouldn't take too long, since the Images in question are ON this video. HOWEVER, that doesn't mean you are allowed to mock me. I mean, think of it this way, if your parents, or your friends (real life friends, I mean), mentioned their dislike of May OR Dawn, would you act the very same way towards them that you act towards me? If the answer is no, take that into account before you try to mock me again.

:[[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 16:17, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
::And that entire sexism thread lost all credibility after its first response, when Blackjack Palazzo claimed she wished to see more male fanservice. And there was another girl that said it was mostly males that argue over this kind of thing, and the girls don't see much of a problem. So much for feminism, eh? Plus, I don't know many males who would willingly cross-dress, besides characters like Harley, James, and Bugs Bunny. Ash's unwillingness to wear it is thus irrelevant. I also don't know what a musical episode of Dexter's Laboratory has to do with the discussion. Please stop throwing non sequiturs around if you wish to be taken seriously.

::Oh, you're being merciful? Well, that's just a bit more time to postpone posting Slave Leia pics on your account, then. Anyways, who said I didn't enjoy fanservice? It's so fun to mock.

::As for your last question, of course I would still act the same way towards you. Why should I let other people control the way I think? A lot of people don't like Pokemon in my school, so your "peer pressure" argument barely fazes me. Oh, wait, you're jealous, aren't you? You're jealous because I scored with the same Serebii mod that banned you. You can't believe that I could get on her good side while you ended up becoming the laughingstock of Serebii's idiot hunters, and that's why you put the "real life friends" part. Well, maybe if you weren't trying to usurp her position by judging everyone on the forum with your "holier-than-thou" attitude (kind of like Lisa Simpson), then maybe you wouldn't be in the position you are now! P.S. This is becoming increasingly irrelevant to Bulbapedia editing. If you wish to continue, put this on my Bulbagarden or Pokecommunity account (MetaRobo/PorygonSquared, respectively). [[User:PsychoRobo|PsychoRobo]] 16:48, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

== Linking to other wikis ==

When linking to other wikis, please remeber to use {{ }} around the link, not [[ ]]

Thanks. ♪♪[[User:ShinyPachirisu|Shiny]] [[User Talk:ShinyPachirisu|Pachirisu]] :) ♪♪ 00:38, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

== Let me explain something to you ==

Just because I said that it doesn't only apply to Misty doesn't mean you can go and put it on May and Dawn's pages.

The reason we have a page on SOVA, despite being a fan thing, is because it was a big deal. This isn't so much a big deal that caused fans to write hundreds of letters. Infact I doubt that many people even know about it.

We already mention what he said on [[Masamitsu Hidaka|his page]] and how some fans find it offensive. We don't need to affiliate the character with it as well. Yes it was a shitty thing to say but we don't need to be reminded of it everytime we visit Misty, May, or Dawn's pages. --[[Special:Contributions/Kenji-girl|☆]][[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 11:35, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

::Fine, I won't edit the pages, and I'm also sorry for my response on your talk page, while I'm at it. However, I'm only stopping because Hidaka's page already mentioned it. and anyways, as far as I'm concerned, if it doesn't apply to just one person involved, it applies to ALL people involved. So, next time you say something like that, try it in a way that I can understand. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 11:40, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

== Arceus/Mew dispute ==

I've put up a full explanation at [[Talk:Arceus (Pokémon)#Arceus vs. Mew]]. I don't mean to sound so aggressive, but there truly is no real basis for considering Mew the first. At best, it should be mentioned that the fan community considered it the first, but that was always fanon and never what the games actually claimed.

Again, sorry if I've offended you.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 06:32, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

:I also posted my response on that discussion. And also, Porygon MAY have been made later, but then, if it can't be a descendant of Mew, then HOW can Mew be able to transform into it? I mean, they HAD to have used some form of Mew's DNA in order for it to be able to transform into it and it's family (Besides, they used Mew's DNA to create Mewtwo, who's to say they used ALL of the Mew DNA to transform into it? Besides, the pokedex entries hint that the reason why Mewtwo is savage and aggressive is because they repeatedly spliced Mewtwo's DNA, so I'm guessing they may have used his DNA in Grimer/Muk, Castform, and, yes, even the Porygon Family, so in a sense, they are Mewtwo's Children, and thus, in a sense, Mew's Grandchildren. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 11:00, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
:::Replied on the talk page. As for your comment here, I'm sorry, but it is completely ignorant of any concept of genetics, especially the actual concept of [[wikipedia:RNA splicing|genetic splicing]] and what DNA ''does'', as well as the actual text of Porygon's Pokedex entries, and the in-game description of how {{m|Transform}} works.

:::Let me illustrate your basic misunderstanding - a child typically has distinct DNA from two sources ( a mother and a father). You may not know this, but the mother and father generally have ''completely'' distinct lineages, and share almost no DNA that all humans don't share - to put it simply, the mother and father are generally not brother and sister, or anything close.
:::Now, because of this, the child will have DNA from the mother ''and'' father. What you are claiming is analogous to saying that the child's father should be able to turn into the child's mother, because the child, his descendant, has DNA from his mother. But this is utter hogwash, and immediately recognizable as lunatic raving. The very use of sexual reproduction in macro-evolution is that it introduces '''''NEW''''' genes into the gene pool.
:::If transformation were inherent in the species ''at all'', it would be obvious to even the casual observer that it would be the ''child'' who could be expected to be able to transform into both the father or mother, ''as his very nature'' is to be a collection of both of their DNA.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 05:57, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
::::Okay, first off - you don't get to make ultimatums, that's not how a wiki works. Second off, where in the ''hell'' does the D/P Pokedex say that Mew is "believed to be the originator of all Pokémon", thought to "possibly contain the genetic code of every other Pokémon", or able to "learn every TM/HM"? Finally, how could "Arceus being the original one" and "Mew creating ''ALL'' Pokemon" ever be reconciled? They're necessarily contradictory!
::::However, to try and compromise with you ''without'' making up fanfiction and being dishonest about the Pokedex, I rewrote the section you keep adding without having removed it. Is this acceptable?[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 03:44, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::Fine, I thank you for at least keeping the gist of it. BTW, I wasn't lying about the Pokédex entry. As a matter of fact, I have copied and pasted Mew's D/P Dex entry from his article just for you to see it. here it is:
:::::'''''''Because it can use all kinds of moves, many scientists believe Mew to be the ancestor of Pokémon. '''''''
:::::And to further prove that I'm not lying, I ALSO am going to post a link:
:::::Bulbapedia.Bulbagarden.net/wiki/Mew_(Pokémon)#Pokédex_entries.
:::::Next time you try to accuse me of lying about it, read Mew's D/P pokedex entry first, since it still said that Mew was believed to be the ancestor of pokémon (the fact it said pokémon made it seem like it said all pokémon.).
:::::Also, I tried to reason with you multiple times, but you insisted that it shouldn't be in there, despite the fact that the Dex actually stated it, so I was forced to take drastic measures.
:::::[[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 10:33, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
::::::YEs, you ''were'' incorrect about the Pokedex entry - you claimed it specifically said those things, and ''it did not''. '''Those''' were the points in contention, and you keep trying to avoid them. The Dex does '''not''' "actually say it", so you're claim that I forced you to keep trying to pass off your speculation as fact is incorrect.
*Specifically:
#The DP pokedex entry says '''nothing''' about TMs/HMs.
#The DP pokedex entry says '''nothing''' about genetics.
#The DP pokedex entry says '''nothing''' about "''originating'' '''all''' Pokemon".[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 01:05, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
::Do I LOOK Like I care what the DP pokedex says?! I only care for what ALL of them said. And ANOTHER thing, they may have not explicitly mentioned "TMs/HMs", but the mere fact that Mew's DP pokédex entry said that it can use ''All kinds of moves'' implies that it can learn TMs and HMs as well, as well as natural, move tutors, and even moves only available from Metronome. As for Genetics, The closest thing it came to mentioning Genetics was in SSBB's Trophy, and besides which, the mere fact that it can learn transform (which is stated to be the recombining of DNA into the pokemon that matches that DNA) should be enough to prove it's the Ancestor. And for Originating All Pokemon. SO WHAT? The Pokédex entry ALSO didn't say it originated most, some, few, or even only one Pokemon, either. It just said "Ancestor of All Pokemon", and from what I can tell, especially with how people often interperet thing, if it doens't explicitly mention that it's only most, few, some, or only one pokemon that it is an ancestor of, that means it's the ancestor of All Pokemon. Therefore, Mew stated that it's ancestor of pokemon = ancestor of all pokemon.

::I also forgot to mention one thing. There's a Significant difference between Mew's transforming into a Pokemon and Ditto's Transforming into a pokémon. Ditto can only transform into a pokemon when it sees it [It's also implied that it can't go by memory], whileas with Mew, it's implied thar Mew can transform into any pokemon without necessarily needing to see it at first (as one of the problems with trying to get Mew in Emerald is that it can transform into pokemon, and in the Anime, it's been shown to transform into pokemon that it hasn't had any contact with, or at the very least not any direct contact [eg, Ho-oh, Taillow, etc.].).

::Even IF it's not directly mentioned in the D/P/P Pokedex, we must wait until GSDS comes out (if it comes out) or, assuming that there is one, generation 5 before we say that it's been retconned. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 01:23, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

== Wow! ==

In all the time you've been on Bulbapedia, you haven't made a single contribution to the Userspace! That's quite an accomplishment! --[[User:Politoed666|ニョロトノ]][[User talk:Politoed666|''666'']] 22:22, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
:Userspace? [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 22:37, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
::Its the user page and anything connected with it except talk pages. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[User:Jmath/Sandbox|'''th''']] 22:41, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
::Oh, that. See, it's in red spacing, and I'm not completely sure if I can create one. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 22:42, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
:::O.O You don't have to create a page... ♪♪[[User:ShinyPachirisu|Shiny]] [[User Talk:ShinyPachirisu|Pachirisu]] :) ♪♪ 22:44, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
==Legendary Genders==
it said none because Legendary's dont have genders! [[User:Mooites|Mooites]] 01:55, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
:Only in the games, though. Maybe you've forgotten, but a Baby Lugia DID appear in the show. If they didn't have genders, please explain how Silver even exists?! Heck, most of the legendaries had multiples in the anime, and if they don't have genders, how can they have multiple species at the same time? [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 02:16, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
::Asexual Reproduction? They are hermaphrodites? There's more methods of reproduction than male/female sexual reproduction, you know. [[User:PsychoRobo|PsychoRobo]] 22:11, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
::good point. [[User:Mooites|Mooites]] 02:19, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
:::Mooites, this is directed at PsychoRobo, so don't think it seems like i'm lecturing you. PsychoRobo, ONE. Next time you have to respond to my usertalk, or any talk page for that matter, place it AFTER the recent poster. TWO. Asexual Reproduction requires budding, for the most part. THREE, Hermaphrodites change genders (meaning, they change from female to male just to reproduce. So, in one sense, the Marril family are hermaphrodites.), so they would still need to mate in order to reproduce the same effect. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 22:35, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
::::First, to respond to three. The topic was whether legendaries had genders or not. Just because they need to mate doesn't mean they have defined genders. And to two, budding is not the only form of asexual reproduction. In fact, many creatures such as starfish and especially plants can reproduce with a fragment of the parent. [[User:PsychoRobo|PsychoRobo]] 00:06, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::I think Budding involves the separation of the original host, so Starfish actually DO bud to reproduce. Also, Plants technically require pollination in order to reproduce (the stigma is the male plant, the phyla is the female, the pollen goes to another plant, they make eggs known as seeds, get my drift?), so technically, it's not asexual reproduction. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 00:10, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
::::::Plants can regenerate asexually with one of their body parts removed, though. It's not their main option, but it is an option. [[User:PsychoRobo|PsychoRobo]] 14:51, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

== Edits ==

Please stop doing it. We can discuss it on the talk page. Just no more edits. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[User:Jmath/Sandbox|'''th''']] 22:07, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

:Fine, But the thing still stands. Now, if you want to add a footnote that this happened before the release of Platinum on the edits page (or request me to do so), fine, because that way, we'll have middle ground. I can say it's technically a out of order defeat, and you can say that it was before Platinum was released. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 22:11, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
::Anyway, where did you get that the order is changed? It isn't anywhere else here. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[User:Jmath/Sandbox|'''th''']] 22:13, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
:::Tv.com. The Platinum release thread. Specifically:

:::"Hearthome Gym is now the Third gym, Veilstone is the Fourth, and Pastoria is the Fifth

:::How dumb is it for Fantina not to have Drifblim. Her dress is best on it, and her gym in the anime was. "

:::"Oh, I didn't even notice the Gym order switch!

:::Yay, in Diamond and Pearl Fantina uses Drifblim in Super Contests, and since her dress is based on one I guess they'll let her keep that Driflblim. Now while the Drifblim/Duskull switch is odd, why in the world did they replace her Gengar with a Haunter? Just becuase she's no longer the fifth Gym they downgraded her Pokemon?

:::Though I do agree with the evolving of Gardenia's Cherubi into a Cherrim, hopefully Dawn will get one in the anime."

:::The Quotes were from SPDShadowRanger and Pikachu315111, respectively

:::[[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 22:23, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Are you sure what's written there can be taken as fact? How can some guy know that when the game hasn't even been released yet. Even Bulbapedia is not mentioning it. At least edit it when the game's released. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[User:Jmath/Sandbox|'''th''']] 22:26, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

:Considering how even Serebii (The webmaster, not the pokemon) is playing through Platinum as we speak, I'd say it already HAS been released. If serebii updated the site to include the changes in Roark's pokemon/Puzzle, It can be fairly certain that these others have played the game. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 22:30, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
::Then what is September 13 for? Some guys get special privileges? [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[User:Jmath/Sandbox|'''th''']] 22:34, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
:::I just changed the release date, and mentioned why in it's talk page. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 22:35, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

If you could make the footnote for that trivia, go ahead. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[User:Jmath/Sandbox|'''th''']] 22:41, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

== Style ==

Please read the {{bp|manual of style}} and familiarize yourself with English grammar before you edit too much more. Your recent edits to [[legendary birds]] spelled Pokémon as pokemon, used "it's", among as possessive, and has weird capitals all over the place, among other errors. --[[User:Martonimos|Martonimos]][[User talk:Martonimos|((Argh]]|[[Special:Contributions/Martonimos|Blargh))]] 20:57, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

== Delete? ==

Do you want your user page deleted?Can I put the tag on it? another user generously made one for you--[[User:DCM|DCM]][[User talk:DCM|((Nag at Me!]][[Special:Contributions/DCM|Edits))]]

== Speculation ==

Please don't put speculation in main articles; just put it on the talk page. [[User:Dialgarules|Dialgarules]] 01:30, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
:I'm sorry, but you ''really'' have to make sense on this site. You put Poké-ball when it SAYS IN THE WELCOME THINGY to say '''Poké [space] Ball!''' When you say that Meowth "prefers to walk around" it could mean a lot of things. You could say that it likes to be out of its Poké [space] Ball. How about you take a quick look at [[Bulbapedia:Manual_of_style|this]]? [[User:Dialgarules|Dialgarules]] 00:39, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

== Pokémon Heroes Subtitles ==

There are such things that are called, oh maybe you've heard of them, ERRORS. I've listened to it several times and it does not sound like "I'm sorry" to me. Sometimes the people making the subtitles mess up. Also the whole Misty catching Totodile thing doesn't float. That's a matter of opinion and making speculations because of the way the balls were thrown. Don't put any of these things on Totodile's page again.--[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 10:52, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
:Ok, but then again, technically, several other things like the Major events section, Trivia, and Errors section technically shouldn't appear in those pages either, since it's kinda speculation in and of itself, no matter how it's worded. Heck, the entirety of Bulbapedia's articles are speculation. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 13:42, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

== Anime abilities ==

Please do not add unconfirmed abilities to anime Pokémon pages. It doesn't matter if the only ability for a {{AP|Totodile}} is {{a|Torrent}}, or if the only ability for a {{AP|Larvitar}} is {{a|Guts}}. Unless it is confirmed in words in the anime, the ability stays as Unknown. The unconfirmed ability removal was started by {{u|Politoed666}} an EB member. - [[User:Kogoro|'''<sc>Kogoro</sc>''']] '''|''' [[User talk:Kogoro|'''<sc>Talk to me</sc>''']] '''|''' 04:34, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
:If that's the case, should we eliminate the majority of Psyduck's wins (or participations in battles in other words?), or heck, Pikachu's Participation in Round 2 of the Saffron Gym battle? I mean, they never explicitly said in the anime "I choose Pikachu"/"Pikachu, GO!" or "Psyduck, I choose you!" those times (if anything, the opposite is true, as with Psyduck, it pops out when she's choosing Staryu, Starmie, or some other pokemon, and Ash tried to tell Pikachu to avoid battling Kadabra.), and thus is the same thing, as far as I'm concerned (I also posted this for Politoed666 on Maverick Nate's talk Page.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 04:57, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
::Then understand what she meant to say and not what she literally said. Psyduck is ''used'' in the anime. Torrent is not. Pikachu is ''used'' in the anime. Guts is not. Abilities that are not mentioned and do not ever appear should not be put on anime pages. [[User:IIMarckus|IIMarckus]] 05:04, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
:::Even IF the ability is the only thing it's got?! I mean, common sense should dictate the fact that, if it's the only ability it can ever have, it is to be included in the abilities section, REGARDLESS if it's stated in the anime or not. Besides, Abilities ARE used as well (they activate under certain conditions). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 05:08, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
::::The anime and games barely match up at the best of times. You might as well be adding “Based on the moves such‐and‐such knows, it is probably between levels 34 and 40” to pages. Nothing suggests that the Totodile in the anime has Torrent. [[User:IIMarckus|IIMarckus]] 05:11, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
:::::On the case of the ability needing to be mentioned in words, how else would an ability be confirmed? Misty's Psyduck popping out of it's Poké Ball and battling is visual, so it's obvious without any words. It's rather hard to not notice the flash of light come from Misty's pack, then Psyduck standing near her. With abilities, it's a little less black & white. Unless someone like Brock says something like "Totodile's using its ability, Torrent!" we're not able to know that it's actually Torrent activating or not. I hope you understand now. - [[User:Kogoro|'''<sc>Kogoro</sc>''']] '''|''' [[User talk:Kogoro|'''<sc>Talk to me</sc>''']] '''|''' 05:41, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

== Grammar ==

The first letter of every sentence is capitalized, and Pokémon is spelled with an é and an uppercase P. You've been here long enough to know that, so you should have gotten it the first time. ''[[User:Maverick Nate|'''Maverick''']][[User talk:Maverick Nate|'''Nate''']]'' 15:45, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

:Please, please starting using better grammar. Stop making so many run-on sentences. And stop capitalizing words that don't need to be like ''dub''. Only capitalize the first word in the sentence, Pokémon names, character names, anything with Poké in front of it, and proper nouns. Also you use ''whileas'' in your sentences A LOT. Whileas is not a word. If you want, but really not needed, put ''while as''. But you really don't need it. Just say ''while''. And don't over use those parenthesis (). You use them way too much. And try not to add these extra words like ''merely'', ''actually'', or ''clearly'' unless absolutely needed. Thank you. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 06:05, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

== Ironically ==

Please don't over user the term 'ironically'. Thanks, --[[User:RexRacer|'''Rex]][[Quilava (Pokémon)|Racer''']] [[User talk:RexRacer|'''''-talk''''']] 15:52, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

== "Focusing" ==

There is a difference between an episode focusing on a particular character, and a particular character supporting them. For episode 232? That is not an episode focusing on Misty. Brock? Yes. Look a little more closely at these roles, then decide who it's focused on. -[[User:Sketch|Sketch]] 21:01, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
:Well, actually it's focused on both. You see, if it wasn't for Misty, Brock would have become the Ninetale's owner's reincarnate, and Ash would have also completely fallen for the deception, and Brock would also have never figured out that the Ninetales in question was just trying to relive it's memories of it's own trainer, so it's also focused upon in there. Now, if you want "supporting", Ash is a good example, He didn't initially think about it being a trick/illusion made by Ninetales, even claiming Misty was paranoid, and only started to believe when Ash saw Brock go through her.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 21:06, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
::Just because Misty figured out what Ninetails was doing doesn't mean it's a Misty focused episode. Stop trying to look for any little thing that makes Misty the focus of the episode. Like 133. Pikachu and Meowth were also the focal points of the episode so why didn't you think of adding Ash and Team Rocket as focuses. Because they are not. The focuses were the Pokémon. Not Misty. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 00:28, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
:::Actually, in regards to EP133, it's because Meowth and Pikachu already have their OWN episode focusing templates, so adding in Jessie James Ash or Team Rocket's episode focusing templates would have been pointless.

:::And anyways, she didn't merely just "Figure it out", she tried to warn Ash and especially Brock for a significant portion of the episode. See, anything a main character does that's significant to the episode as well as focuses on them for the majority of the time is a "episode focused on so-and-so" episode in and of itself, and Contests/Gym Battles and even Captures aren't enough. I mean, Jessie, for instance, won a ribbon in the episode where Ash beat fantina, was this a Jessie-oriented episode? no, because she was barely even focused on [in fact, unless I'm mistaken, which I probably am, i think the contest was actually not even shown until after Ash won the battle] the episode [[EP103|Misty Meets her Match]] was a similar scenario.). Now, if I added in the template for episode 001, then yes, your accusations would be legitimate, correct, and justified.

:::It doesn't matter anyways, as I have already completed the test anyways (Ash:40, Misty:46, maybe Ash:40, Misty:45 now.), and this was actually a test to see if Ash was truly the central character (the central character would usually have most of the entire show focused on him/her. As he didn't exceed Misty, he's not really a central main character.). the only part Misty had in it was to see whether she was actually equal to Ash, or rather, to set a fair comparison between the characters to have it be a fair test (I can't use Brock or Tracey, because that would be a no contest, and thus, an unfair advantage on Ash's part.). I also plan on doing the same thing with Ash and May in regards to AG, and Ash and Dawn in DP as well.

:::On a side note, I also did it to statistically find out which of the girls was actually close to being Ash's equal (I earlier speculated Misty, but I found out that she actually exceeded Ash), and I only did it because I have certain doubts of Dawn actually being equal to Ash (since I researched it, and noticed initially that Misty seemed closer to equality to Ash than May and Dawn were). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 01:08, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
::::Just because Togepi doesn't have a focusing category yet doesn't automatically make Misty the character of focus. News flash, Ash is the main character of the show not Misty. And there is WAY MORE THAN 40 episodes focusing on Ash. As for the female character that is Ash's equal, I believe it's Dawn. For someone who's been in the series for 107 episodes, she sure had a significant amount of episodes focusing on her. Maybe not as much as Misty, but Misty was around for 250 plus episodes. At the rate the show is going, Dawn will probably have more episodes than Misty. I know you might not like to hear that, but it's the truth. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 01:15, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

::::in regards to Togepi, if you are talking about Tanks a lot, it's because Misty pretty much organized the attack among other things. As for your claims that Ash is focused upon more than Misty (and more than 40 episodes), that's not even close to a true statement. I already did the analysis of all the episodes I could, outrightly ignoring those that are completely unknown. Also, Most of the Johto episodes didn't even focus on Ash at all (and also didn't focus on Misty, Brock, OR Team Rocket), Instead, it focused on COTDs with even Ash being nothing more than the Background, so, in all reality, Ash isn't the central character you think he is. If anything, it's you whose being more biased. I was trying to make it as fair as I can. There were even Gym matches that barely even focused on Ash at all, despite his participating in them (Case in point: Misty Meets her Match.) And also, the majority of the captures he made in the Kanto Saga either had him sharing the spotlight (Ash Catches a Pokémon, which not only dealt with Ash's captures, but Character Development from Misty as well, since a significant part of the episode dealt with her trying to cope with Caterpie despite her fear of bug-types/bugs.), or was never even in the spotlight in the first place (Charmander and the Stray Pokemon, as that episode dealt with Brock trying to help Charmander and all that, among other things, and Ash pretty much took Charmander.).

::::And also, I counted the episode listings thus far in regards to Dawn-centric episodes, and out of the 107 episodes thus far, only 20 episodes were actually focused on Dawn (see, in order for it to be a lot for a girl who has been in for 107 episodes, it needs to be, oh... 40 episodes in that range at least.). Misty had more by this time (7 more by the halfway point, and we just went by the halfway point already, as the 12th movie trailer implied that the upcoming 12th movie will be the last DP series movie.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 01:41, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
:::::This is the problem I have with your counting. Obviously there are others who do not agree that characters in certain episodes have "focus". Therefore your "statistics" aren't entirely accurate. You can say that "Oh, this character is the focus in this episode so that gives them this many episodes..." and so forth...that doesn't make it true. -[[User:Sketch|Sketch]] 01:48, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
::::::Since others seem to not agree amongst themselves, that also means that even THEIR views on what's "Focus" isn't entirely accurate either. And anyways, if that's the case, then Ash never really had much focus in the Leagues, even though those league episodes were listed as episodes focused on him. It's no different. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 01:51, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
:::::::Misty wasn't the one who orginized the plan in Tanks A lot. From what I remember, it was mostly Team Rocket's idea. You give Misty WAY TOO MUCH credit for things. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 02:02, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
::::::::Like how you gave too much credit to Ash or Dawn? you don't seem to be getting this, even without Tanks a Lot, she still had more ACTUAL character-centric episodes than Ash anyhow, and had more character-centric episodes than Dawn, anyways, even by range. And hey, what about the part about Entei at your own risk being a Brock centric episode just because his Foretress evolving, even though there were episodes where a main characters pokemon evolved even though said main character wasn't even the focus of the episode ("March of the Exeggutor Squad" says hi, since the episode was actually a Misty-centric episode by all definitions, and yet Ash's Charmeleon evolved, despite his barely even being out of the background.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 02:17, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Because Ash is the absolute main character of the show. And you only so far counted the original series episodes. What about Advanced and DP? You can't possibly believe Misty has more character focused episodes than Ash. And as for Entie At Your Own Risk, it does automatically a character focused episode when one of their Pokémon evolves. There Pokémon accidentally wondering off doesn't. And you say that its Misty focused because Togepi got inside the tank but refuse to acknowledge Ash and Team Rocket for the very same reason.

Personally, I think your a bit Misty obsessed and are looking for any reason to label Misty the focus of an episode. Please come to the realization that Misty was not the main focus of the series and that Ash was, and still is. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 02:27, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

:No, he ISN'T the absolute main character. Also, I counted the original series episodes because I just wanted to focus on whose the more equal female. And anyways, since you said "Original Series", that's because it's three different series in Japan, meaning, trying to compare is ridiculous beyond belief. I mean, it's like trying to say Ash was more popular than May in the Original series, it's silly. As for the whole thing about evolution=character-focus episode, no it doesn't. In order for it to truly be a character-centric episode, the character in question must have actual focus for more than 50% of the entire episode. As Brock wasn't even focused on for most of the episode, evolution or not, it's not an actual "Brock-centric episode".

:Also, I'm not misty-obsessed (aside from wanting to want her to return and working to make sure i do that, of course.). Believe me, If I WAS truly what you had described me, I would have labeled EP001, and absolutely every single episode Misty was in for that matter [even that brief cameo she had in the Hoenn Conference), as being a Misty-centric episode just because she's in it. And anyways, even if she wasn't, Ash wasn't either. I mean, I could list a few episodes that didn't focus on ANY of the main characters at all, like the majority of the Johto saga (The Xatu episode didn't focus on Ash, the Sunflora Vileplume episode didn't focus on Ash, the the Red Gyarados arc didn't focus on Ash [if it focused on anyone, it was Lance], etc. etc.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 03:02, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

::Yes, he is. Misty and the others are main characters but the anime basically revolves around Ash. ESPECIALLY in the original series in which you keep insisting Misty is the center of the series. What did Misty do? Was it Misty who competed in the Gym Battles? Was it Misty who competed in the Pokémon League? Was it Misty who was deciding where they were heading next? She was basically a character like Brock, Tracey, and Max are. One of Ash's friends who follows him and really doesn't do anything that greatly impacts the direction of the series. This does not mean that they are not important but they are basically behind Ash and are not his equal in anyway. The beginning of the Japanese openings never said "Satoshi, Kasumi, and Takeshi". They always said "Satoshi". It wasn't until the Diamond and Pearl that it was changed to "Satoshi and Hikari". It was the Advanced Generation were they decided to share the main point of the series with another character, May.

::You seem to be misunderstanding what I meant. I didn't mean every single episode is Ash focused. I'm saying that the anime in general is Ash focused.

::To Bulbapedia's standards, an episode in which a main character catches a Pokémon, evolves a Pokémon, or releases a Pokémon is an automatic focus on a particular character. Regardless of what you think.

::Yes, you are indeed Misty obsessed if you believe that she was more important of a character than Ash is. Even I don't say that about Tracey. If Misty was indeed the most important character of the series than why isn't she in it anymore? Why did the producers decide to keep Brock and not her?

::So are you trying to tell me that what ever happened after the original series doesn't matter? That it doesn't matter that Ash continued to be in more episodes after Misty's departure. Get a clue. Ash is the center of the anime followed by Dawn and May then the other characters, which includeds Misty. Of course Team Rocket is up their with May and Dawn as the opposing side to the heroes. You need to except that. Just because Misty has a lot of fans doesn't make her more important in the series than Ash is. You are being way too baised in your decisions. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 03:51, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

:::''Yes, he is. Misty and the others are main characters but the anime basically revolves around Ash. ESPECIALLY in the original series in which you keep insisting Misty is the center of the series. What did Misty do? Was it Misty who competed in the Gym Battles? Was it Misty who competed in the Pokémon League? Was it Misty who was deciding where they were heading next? She was basically a character like Brock, Tracey, and Max are. One of Ash's friends who follows him and really doesn't do anything that greatly impacts the direction of the series. This does not mean that they are not important but they are basically behind Ash and are not his equal in anyway. The beginning of the Japanese openings never said "Satoshi, Kasumi, and Takeshi". They always said "Satoshi". It wasn't until the Diamond and Pearl that it was changed to "Satoshi and Hikari". It was the Advanced Generation were they decided to share the main point of the series with another character, May. ''

:::Actually, she did greatly impact the series, as if it wasn't for her, Ash would have DIED. Since you guys are saying that he IS the Anime, then, if it wasn't for her, the anime would have ended right then and there. Besides, the only time relating to battles where the focus was undeniably on Ash was in the Leagues (The Gyms are debatable, as the Gym episodes seemed to focus more on the characters appearing than on Ash himself, or in the case of the Rudy Gym Episode, focused almost exclusively on Misty.). Besides, the point of the poll was how much screentime she really got compared to the Girls, and to be honest, I wasn't even anticipating the results to be as high as it was.

:::''You seem to be misunderstanding what I meant. I didn't mean every single episode is Ash focused. I'm saying that the anime in general is Ash focused.''

:::You said he was the "Absolute" main character, which, according to Webster, means everything. which, taking that definition into account, would imply that Absolutely every millisecond of every episode would be focused on Ash, which it really wasn't.

:::''To Bulbapedia's standards, an episode in which a main character catches a Pokémon, evolves a Pokémon, or releases a Pokémon is an automatic focus on a particular character. Regardless of what you think.''

:::Regardless if the episode focused 90% more on a Main Character other than Ash and Ash himself got only 10% when the capture/evolution/release episode was made (Like in the Charmander episode, even though Ash caught Charmander, it was more focused on Brock, as he was the one who reacted first to Damian's neglect, he's the one who cared for Charmander the most, he was the one who got extremely worried about Charmander when it left upon recovery to try and reunite with Damian. All Ash did throughout the episode was capture it [and, according to Brock, checked it's tail.].). That's crazy! I mean, Misty caught Psyduck, and I'll be the first to admit that the episode of it's capture barely even focused on her. If it even focused on anyone, it was Officer Jenny and Nurse Joy, which was a major reason as to why I didn't even include it.

:::''Yes, you are indeed Misty obsessed if you believe that she was more important of a character than Ash is. Even I don't say that about Tracey. If Misty was indeed the most important character of the series than why isn't she in it anymore? Why did the producers decide to keep Brock and not her?

:::Actually, I wasn't even thinking Misty was more important than Ash when I did this test. I just was doing it to measure the amount of character centric episodes Misty got in comparison to Ash (As well as the females in comparison to Ash as a whole.). heck, to be honest, I didn't even anticipate that Misty would get more episodes than Ash (The least I could predict was probably Misty: 45% Ash: 65%, if not 50/50.). The only reason why I had gotten the results to be 40:46 for Ash and Misty was because I didn't realize that someone had already listed the Johto Conference episodes as being Ash centric. Besides, if I was truly that which you described me as, I would have posted every single episodes that Misty ever appeared in as being a "Misty Centric" episode just because she appeared (Which I didn't and I actually gave reasons for why the episodes were focused on Misty or Ash.).

:::''So are you trying to tell me that what ever happened after the original series doesn't matter? That it doesn't matter that Ash continued to be in more episodes after Misty's departure. Get a clue. Ash is the center of the anime followed by Dawn and May then the other characters, which includeds Misty. Of course Team Rocket is up their with May and Dawn as the opposing side to the heroes. You need to except that. Just because Misty has a lot of fans doesn't make her more important in the series than Ash is. You are being way too baised in your decisions.''

:::No I wasn't. And anyways, if Ash was truly the center of the show as you claim, please explain to me why the writers actually considered replacing Ash twice. You know exactly what I mean, the special Raikou: The Legend of Thunder was released midway through Johto, where Ash wasn't even in that special, period, much less the Main Character, and some fans even stated that the special was a prototype for a series that wouldn't have involved Ash at all. Later, they revealed a Poster advertizing for a DP anime that had Dawn, Dawn, and Dawn alone on it, absolutely no sign of Ash on it, period. Some of the fanbase thought they were actually replacing Ash for the series because of that (and Dogasu even admitted that the reasoning behind the belief was legitimate). Now granted, they decided to keep Ash on, but the mere fact that they even thought of that special and making that Poster in that way implies that the writers felt that even Ash was expendable, which implies that, even back in the original series, Ash wasn't the star of the show (The writers wouldn't even THINK of doing the Raikou special if they felt that Ash was truly the star of the show.). So who's being more biased now? [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 14:28, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

You know Weedle, Ash IS the main character of the show. That doesn't mean he has to get the focus in ''every'' episode. It's on his goals that the anime revolves around not on any other characters. Its been like that since the beginning of the series. Ash always seems to be there when everyone else isn't. And the part about Misty saving Ash, do you really think a main character would '''die'''? That's never going to happen. Sure they may be life-threatening moments but they would never ''die''.

Naruto is a perfect example of being the main character but not given the focus in every episode. Its just like that with Ash. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 15:38, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
:I really don't think your experiment should have been done in the mainspace--[[User:RexRacer|'''Rex]][[Quilava (Pokémon)|Racer''']] [[User talk:RexRacer|'''''-talk''''']] 15:53, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

:Technically, he did die, twice. In the episode "The Tower of Terror", Haunter took Ash and Pikachu's souls out of their bodies after they caused the Chandelier to fall on them. The second time was in the first movie, where, after Ash got in the way of Mewtwo and Mew's attack, he turned to stone, couldn't awaken, and the only reason he was even alive now was because of the tears and he was, both clinically and truly, up to the point of the tears, dead. So, yes, they did "Kill" Ash.

:Anyways, not focusing on him is one thing, as there were plenty of episodes in the original series (a bit too much if you really think about it, even WITHOUT Misty), that didn't actually focus on him. No, my point was they not only were he was '''not''' focused upon in the ''[[The Legend of Thunder]]'' special, but he didn't even appear in it, period. A similar thing happened when they revealed that they had plans of making a DP Anime. They unveiled a poster of it, and the way they unveiled Dawn for the first time ever made it seem as though she was not only replacing Ash, but that Ash was NOT going to be appearing in the anime. That's my point. I mean, think about it, Even IF the writers didn't give Ash the focus in every single episode, if they felt that Ash was the Be-all-end-all of the show, why would they do [[The Legend of Thunder|a special]] that didn't even have a cameo from Ash, or a Promotional Poster for DP that focused on Dawn alone, and made it seem as though Ash was going to leave the Anime, and Dawn would take up the mantle of the star of the show. I mean, in the DP poster's case, it was one of the biggest discussions at the time. Those, to me, implied that the writers viewed even Ash as expendable.

:As for that comment for RexRacer, care to suggest where else I could put this experiment then? [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 16:02, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
::Sure at the time of the poster, people may have thought Ash was going to be replaced but the writers never specifically stated it. They may have been referencing the fact that a new girl is going to play a important role in the anime not as in being the only one. And Ash could not be in the Raikou special since he was at Hoenn at the time and the special happened in Johto. And you can't say from one incident that Ash is expendable. Again, I state the example of Naruto. There have been episodes in which he hasn't appeared at all.

Sure Ash may have kinda "died" but he always came back almost immediately instead of staying dead. Which means a ''lot''. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 16:14, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

:No, The Raikou Special actually took place (And AIRED in Japan, don't bring Chronicles into it) between Hatching a Plan, and Dues and Don'ts. And it wasn't a chronicles episode (Heck, Pokemon Hoso hadn't even been aired yet.). They even referenced several parts involving the special in the Johto League when Ash fought Jackson/Vincent.). As for referencing a new girl, They had a poster showing a new character named May and they had Ash with her as well when it was first unveiled, so that cannot be it.

:As for Naruto, were these main episodes, or were these episodes from a spinoff series similar to Hoso/Chronicles? [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 16:31, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
::Okay whatever. That doesn't mean that one special is enough to disprove Ash's status. The characters of the special hasn't been given a major appearance ever since then except Vincent but he appeared for one episode anyway. And for the poster thing, Dawn is kinda more important than May was. In all the DP movies, she is given equal importance with Ash unlike May who was only given importance in '''1''' movie.

::And the Naruto episodes were the main ones. I don't know if there were spinoffs but it doesn't matter. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 16:43, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

:::I think that a member of BMGf by the name of Rhyperior pointed out that it was Ash who saved Alamos/The world in Movie 10, and that Dawn ultimately took the back seat, anyways (The only remotely important thing that she did within the movie was save Ash) as it was Ash who told Pikachu and Pachirisu to reactivate the device, according to him, thus saving the world/Alamos, and he also scolded Palkia. Also, in the Shaymin Movie, other than the fact that she and brock tried to stop the Glacier (which even then, they weren't even the ones who actually stopped it, it was Regigigas), she didn't really do much. I mean, did she pair up with Ash and the two of them together, along with Shaymin, Muten, and Giratina, utterly defeat Zero? No, Ash was the one who ended up stopping him once and for all. So, in actuality, she actually had the same role May did, meaning she never was important to begin with. And, arguably, May wasn't given any importance in any movies, considering the fact that the climax of the 9th movie had her act like a total coward and didn't even attempt to save Manaphy (Instead, it was Ash who ended up saving the day, as usual.). So, in any case, I still say that Ash was expendable, as the character didn't appear, and the special, according to many, was a test to see what Audiences would feel, which implies that they had plans to replace Ash. Plus, the Poster, not to mention. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 16:58, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
::::Ash and Dawn were both on the tower activating the music device not Ash alone. It wasn't just Ash's Pikachu but Dawn's Pachirisu that also helped in it. In the Giratina movie, both Ash ''and'' Dawn went to the Reverse World not just Ash alone. She interacted with Shaymin almost as much as Ash. And how could you say May wasn't given any importance in the 9th movie? Its not about how she acted. A main plot point in the movie was May interacting with Manaphy and treating it like its mother. Whatever she did in the movie near the end doesn't matter since their relationship was shown for a major portion of the movie.

::::And like I said before, the writers haven't made any move to remove Ash from the story. The special is a seperate entity with its characters almost never appearing again in the anime. They may have looked to have tried a few attempts to remove him but the fact that they keep bringing Ash back show that he IS important. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 17:46, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
:::::Sigh, look, if you want to mention this to anyone, tell it to Rhyperior, assuming you are also a member of BMGf, all I did was just quote him. As for the part about the Reverse World, I know they both were in the Reverse world in the first visit, but during the second visit, it was Ash, and Ash alone who defeated Zero once and for all (Dawn was stuck trying to stop the glacier that, in the end, only Regigigas was able to stop, remember?). I mean, the summary of that movie even stated this.

:::::As for your point as to how she raised and interacted with Manaphy in the movie, if the same deal with Misty interacting with Togepi wasn't even considered even remotely important despite some episodes focusing on Togepi, then, Titular pokemon or not, her interacting with Manaphy isn't important either.

:::::As for thinking he's important, so what, Brock stays on the show for barely as long as Ash has, and he's not even as important as him, so Episode lengths aren't a detemining factor. And anyways, in order for someone to be a central character, not only do they NOT replace the character, they also are unable to even think about replacing it (Which, at least twice, they did think of replacing him.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 17:58, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Ash hasn't been replaced in the main anime. That's what matters not some random special. The anime is more important than the Chronicles or the raikou special. Its even more imortant than the movies. I know Brock has been there for a good portion of the series but he doesn't do that much anyway. This is Ash's story not anyone else's since he is in every episode.

Misty has interacted with Togepi to what extent in the movies? She practically just holds it for a major portion of the movies. May did a ''lot'' with Manaphy. It also helps that Manaphy is the titular Pokémon for the movie.

:Let's see, she fed it, she discovered some of it's metronome abilities, had it fight against Pikachu at one point, heck, her Togepi was also integral to defeating Colonel Hanson and reclaiming the Togepi Paradise. Besides, if we want to get technical, what did May ''actually'' do with it. She also, for the most part, held it, and heck, when it got kidnapped, what did she do? just stand there!

:They may not have done it, but they have certainly thought about it. I mean sure, they didn't replace him, but the point was they thought about replacing him. And anyways, considering how they referred to that special in the main series, anyways, it's a main series episode in and of itself. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 18:21, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
::I am talking about the movies. Misty hasn't done anything with Togepi in a movie. Sure Togepi has had its share of screentime in the anime but only in a few episodes. Out of the entire Johto season, Togepi might have had only less than 10 episodes that truly concentrate on it. It did ''nothing'' for the rest.

::And as long as Ash isn't replaced and keep appearing in every episode, he is the main character. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 18:28, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
Just so you guys know, the fact that this conversation is taking place is hilarious. I don’t even see why we have these categories that are almost solely based on opinion; it’s not as if we don’t have enough categories already (over two ''thousand''). [[User:IIMarckus|IIMarckus]] 19:08, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
:Well, in the Movies case, I can name one thing it did. It was implied that Togepi was the one who freed Zapdos and Moltres, as we saw it doing that "metronome" arm wave thing when Tracey told everyone to get down in regards to the whole Fire, Water, and Electricity combinations = an explosion. (In case you don't recall that scene, it's because 4Kids cut the scene out when they localized the film.). Besides, what did May do with Manaphy, anyways? I mean, she didn't battle with it (which is what the fanbase thinks of when they say "doing anything" in regards to a character.). And even IF Ash is the main character, the template already listed Brock, Misty, May, Dawn, and even the likes of Tracey, Max, and Todd as main characters, so either way, he's not THE main character (He's only A main character.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 20:55, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
::Again I state, as long as Ash keeps appearing in every episode in the main anime, he is the main character. Once he gets replaced, at least for a few episodes, then I will agree with you. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 08:17, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

== The reason ==

The reason why Brock, Tracey, and Misty had information about them getting replaced is because a staff member from the show actually explained the situation. The Dawn replacing Ash thing is all fan speculation and no one from the show EVER said that they were considering replacing Ash. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 21:52, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
:So What?! The GSDS article was still fan speculation in and of itself, and yet you freely chose to keep it on despite that. Heck, the whole Misty issue was actually placed into Misty's article BEFORE Masamitsu Hidaka's revalation. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 21:58, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

== Edit War ==

Thank goodness you guys somehow resolved it...under normal circumstances, you both would be blocked, depending on the amount of edits against...keep that in mind next time... [[User:Ht14|''ht'']][[User talk:Ht14|''14'']] 14:02, 25 December 2008 (UTC)
:I was just trying to put that out due to the fact that the circumstances of whether capturing them was the cause of the events of the second movie or if it was just territorial disputes (since the film implied that both were the cause.), and besides which, none of the Other times a Legendary bird was captured did a weather anamoly occur, which I pointed out with the events of Jack Walker capturing that Zapdos and riding it, as well as the fact that, other than the lake being almost a biological hazard, it's near-death didn't impact the weather. Jmath had to insist that they controlled the weather just because Lawrence III set the chain of events in motion (Even though Zapdos explicitly told Pikachu that it was conquering Fire Island, which definitely implied that Territorial disputes were a main cause of the events.) {{Unsigned|Weedle Mchairybug}}
::It doesn't matter. We resolved it. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 14:13, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

== Pokémon ==

Pokémon is not spelled "pokemon", it's "Pokémon". [[User:Chocolate|Chocolate]] ([[User talk:Chocolate|Chat with Me]]) 23:58, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
:I'm not sure if you should changed Haunter, but if you were to do it, you msut remember to chang it on Ash's page to be consistence.--[[Bulbapedia:Project Custom Sprite|☆]][[User:Tavisource|Tavis]][[User talk:Tavisource|ource]] 00:09, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

== Your trivia ==

The fact that multiple admins have reverted your edits to High Touch should be an indication that it is not needed. Please stop adding the information, as it is not relevant to anything. --[[User:PAK Man|PAK Man]] [[User talk:PAK Man|Talk]] 22:14, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

== That trivia ==

Let's put it this way...Take a small 5-6 year old kid. Ask him/her to do some advanced mathematics. Do you really expect the kid to suddenly do it. He just won't understand what you're saying to him. Does that make him disobedient??? Same with Psyduck. I don't remember any time where Psyduck actually battled with any determination to win. Its just basically clueless and once it gets a headache, it just releases its power. Chimchar also doesn't fall in the disobedient category. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 14:54, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
:It's disobedient, no matter whether it's intentional or not. Besides, if you want to get technical, Chimchar, during the events of ''[[DP081|Chim-Charred]]'', was very similar to Psyduck, and yet is also listed in it's trivia section as being the second fire type belonging to Ash that disobeyed him (and fourth of Ash's Pokemon overall to disobey him), the first being Charizard. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 15:46, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
::It's not disobedient because of ignorance, it's disobedient because of stupidity. That's different. -[[User:Sketch|Sketch]] 15:49, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
:::Were you talking to me or to Jmath? BTW, were you for the part of relocating of that trivia to it's own bit? Because it was still disobediance, therefore, Dawn's only the second main character other than Ash to have a disobedient pokemon, regardless of whether it's clueless or deliberate. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 15:51, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
::::I know I'm just getting involved because of RC watching, but my two cents is--who cares? Will this "(Character) is the (n)th person shown to have a Pokémon, in this case (whoever), disobey" format continue for ALL disobedient Pokés? If so, that seems...kinda unnecessary. -- '''[[User:evkl|evkl]]''' [[User_talk:evkl|(need to talk?)]] 15:57, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
:::::Well, I guess you might as well remove most of those things in Dawn's Trivia section, since almost half of it just compares her to some characters. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 16:03, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Read my first post. Its NOT disobedient. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 20:46, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
:Look, Obedience means following orders. It doesn't matter if the character is rebellious or just plan clueless, if they don't follow orders, they're disobedient. it's that simple. It's a moot point anyways, since Kenji-girl, one of the high ranking members of the site, has already stated that, whether he was intending to be disobedient or not, it still counted as a disobedient pokemon, and therefore, Dawn's only the second main character aside from Ash to own a Disobedient pokemon. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 20:54, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
::Could you blame a child for being disobedient for not knowing advanced mathematics??? Then why don't people punish them or something? [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 22:58, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
:::When did Ash actually punish Charizard? when did Dawn actually punish her Mamoswine? I don't recall them actually punishing their pokemon. In fact, the only character whom I would say actually punishes pokemon would be Paul. And anyways, no matter how hard you argue, unless you have another mod on your side, it's already written that Misty already owned a disobedient pokemon before Dawn ever appeared on the show (and considering how, like you, she also thought I obssess about Misty, that's saying quite a lot.) [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 23:04, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
::::Sure...Its real smart to punish powerhouses like Mamoswine and Charizard. They are going to eat you alive! And you still haven't answered my question. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 23:08, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
:::::Mamoswine is a vegetarian, so it can't eat dawn even if it wanted to (It's based off of the Wooly Mammoth, a herbivore.). You do have a good point on Charizard, though, though then again, Paul was known to punish any of his most powerful pokemon (I mean, he probably was going to do something bad to his Torterra when found oud it was teaching Ash's Grotle how to improve itself.). Anyways, I thought that question about Charizard and Mamoswine WAS my answer. either way, please stop, as Kenji-Girl had already agreed with me about the entire thing about Misty being the first main character other than Ash to own a disobedient pokemon. If you have a problem with it, take it to her. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 23:19, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

I looked up "disobedience" and it means '''willful''' refusal to follow orders. Chimchar and Psyduck both don't fall in this category. That proves your point wrong. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 23:23, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
:even still, she still agreed with me, as, willful or not, it still didn't follow orders. Again, I suggest you take the complaint to Kenji Girl, as she was the one who agreed with my views and put the thing in. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 23:25, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
::So what? We have proof that Psyduck didn't "disobey". And Kenji-girl probably didn't know the exact meaning of the word. (I didn't until I looked it up) [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 23:31, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

== Look ==

No matter how you twist it, it's still speculation. I've protected the talk page for now so it doesn't suffer anymore clutter. Now find something useful to do besides arguing with everyone. No one agrees with you. It's speculation. You can't compare speculation to fandom and fansite articles. So knock it off already. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 02:25, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
:Even IF everyone agreed with me, it's still speculation. And besides, Wikis ALSO have a code where they DON'T allow Fanwank on them. Also, Pokeshipping is still speculation, which means it shouldn't even exist on Bulbapedia. Besides, how is that confirmation from Hidaka not speculation. Heck, if I made something up in regards to my company and what we were doing, REGARDLESS if I was a CEO or not, I'm still speculating. This only proves that you don't know what speculation is, or even if you did, you're too arrogant to actually see it. I mean, heck, even you yourself bring in speculation into articles, should you be removed due to that? [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 02:31, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

:P.S. Another thing, seeing how WPM has actually BEEN with him, AND has had actual experience with the interview, it's NOT speculation. I mean, in order for it to be speculation on WPM's part, he has to not have been there, and only have heard of it. Even IF it were actually speculation, by that logic, seeing how the writers make mistakes in their judgement most of the time, even someone who works for the Pokemon Company/Gamefaqs is speculating, seeing how even they themselves don't know what's truly in store. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 02:36, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

::Why do I even waste time talking to you?
:#Shipping has its own space. We warn that it contains speculation.
:#If Hidaka actually confirmed something by speaking, such as the reason why Tracey replaced Brock, than it's not speculation. If he has a weird reaction to a question and you assume its because he's not allowed to speak of Platinum, than it is speculation. I don't care how much experience WPM has with interviewing people. He's not psychic. His thoughts are not confirmation.
:#I know what speculation is. You apparently can't tell the difference between fanon and speculation.
:#What speculation do I bring? Please show me. Not counting Shipping of course. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 02:42, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

::What are you talking about? I wasn't saying that he wasn't allowed to speak of Platinum. I was saying he didn't know about platinum. If anyone was actually saying he was not allowed to talk about Platinum, it was J-J-M. Stop crediting/blaming things on me that I didn't even do!
::And I don't care if Hidaka WAS the original director or not, What he says still counts as speculation, because he doesn't have absolute knowledge of the franchise.
::As for things like... your speculations, other than the Shipping part, you've speculated on comparisons between sonic characters and pokemon characters. Personally, I don't see why Shipping shouldn't count. I mean, if it's speculation, it's speculation, and if the rules absolutely forebade speculation, then Shipping articles shouldn't exist, period, no matter what your stance on them is. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 02:55, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
:::LOL that's what you're talking about? Those comparisons are on my USERPAGE. Userpages are NOT part of the mainspace. Neither is Shipping. Masamitsu Hidaka IS on the mainspace. Now I get it. You clearly don't know the difference between userpages and mainpages. Hey if you want to mention your speculation on whether he knew of Platinum or not, put it on your userpage. That would be acceptable. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 03:03, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
:::@Weedle-SHIPPING HAS ITS OWN SPACE. HOW MANY TIMES DOES SHE HAVE TO TELL YOU THAT? ''IT'S NOT IN THE MAINSPACE. NEITHER ARE USERSPACES''. AND TAKE AN ENGLISH CLASS! WITH ALL THOSE GRAMMATICAL MISTAKES, NO WONDER EVERYONE HATES YOU! DAMMIT FIND SOMETHING MORE CONSTRUCTIVE TO DO THAN F***ING ARGUING WITH EVERYONE, YOU...
@KG-What userpage? He doesn't even have one. [[User:Alpha Totodile|'''Alpha''']] [[User talk:Alpha Totodile|'''Totodile''']]
::::Now now, everyone, let's respect the {{bp|code of conduct|COC}}. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 00:38, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

== éééééééééééé ==

Use the '''é'''. It's Pokémon, not Pokemon. It's right there on the character palette begging to be clicked. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 00:23, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
:Remember this. I see you don't still use the é. By not using it, you cause extra work to other people correcting your grammar. Also, "dub" and "original" are not proper nouns. '''UltimateSephiroth''' ([[User:UltimateSephiroth|about me]] · [[User talk:UltimateSephiroth|chat]] · [[Special:Contributions/UltimateSephiroth|edits]]) 21:42, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

== Your grammar ==

is absolutely horrendous. The amount of times people have had to point out your grammar mistakes--the spelling of Pokémon, the difference between it's and its, and random capitalization--is absolutely ridiculous. I speak on behalf of all of the community here at Bulbapedia: it's time for you to actually heed warnings and make improvements. If any of us don't see any honest improvement with your edits, it will become a punishable offense. You must learn the rules of grammar--because the lack of proper grammar makes this site seem like it is run by a bunch of ten-year olds. ''[[User:Maverick Nate|'''Maverick''']][[User talk:Maverick Nate|'''Nate''']]'' 15:04, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

== Reverting ==

If an edit of yours is reverted, it's a bad idea to go back and undo it. If you really feel that strongly about your edits, discuss it on the talk page. Don't get into an edit war. --[[User:PAK Man|PAK Man]] [[User talk:PAK Man|Talk]] 16:24, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
:I discussed it on DP049 with other users. In fact, it happened long before the League was even planned out. But just in case, I made a response on [[Talk:DP049]], where we did have this discussion. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 16:32, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

== Norman ==

Can you tell me where Norman actually says he is supposed to be the third Gym Leader faced? In the games and in the anime, he winds up fifth in each case, and IIRC his only reference to three (see my edit to [[Badge]]) is in AG003 saying three Pokémon are needed. If he does say he's supposed to be third, I'd like to know where because I've never seen that. If my understanding is correct, Hoenn is therefore handled by Ash and his friends like all regions before it (Norman came fifth because they were "near Petalburg" again, which doesn't make sense in the games; convenience, I guess, in the anime), and Norman's Gym requirements are the only thing that stopped him challenging there first. [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 15:52, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
:That might have been a mistake (claiming he was actually supposed to be the third gym leader, I mean). But Norman DOES state in the ending of the episode that Ash was supposed to actually challenge him later on, and then points to Rustboro as being the first gym Ash should face. That would imply that there was indeed supposed to be a specific order trainers were supposed to face the gyms, at least in Hoenn. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 15:58, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
::[https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=R3vMoSgzBIM#t=1166 Here's the episode.] I set it to start at the beginning of the final segment, but you can watch it in full if you'd like. Norman NEVER said he should be challenged later on. If you can show me where he says it, then that's fine, I just don't see what you say proven in the anime. [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 16:07, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
:::This is from the summary of the episode on this website: "Later back in front of Norman's Gym, Norman explains that he's actually a Gym Leader Ash is supposed to fight later on. The first Gym he should try is the one in Rustboro City" This is right near the end. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 16:07, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
::::I'll visit there, then. Here are Norman's lines from the ending:
::::*"Your brother does know a lot about Pokémon and just might be a big help to you."
::::*"Ash, would it be too much of a bother if Max traveled along with you and May?"
::::*"I have a little something to give the both of you: a badge case to hold your winning Gym badges." (A grammar error here, too.)
::::*"And son, this is for you."
::::*"With one of those, you'll always know exactly where you are."
::::*"I suggest that you first travel to the closest Gym from here, and that's located in Rustboro City."
::::*"You do your best!"
::::Nothing about being faced later, so I'll go edit that article too. Thanks for the tip. [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 16:16, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
Never mind, that's another Website. I think I've proven that the other Website is not reliable. Do you have a link? [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 16:17, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
:Never mind again, I've edited [[AG003]]. [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 16:20, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

== Blocked ==

Weedle, you have been blocked for a duration of seven days for your edit war on [[Mewtwo Returns]]. You are well aware that edit warring is not permitted on Bulbapedia, and that the proper course of dispute resolution is to use the article's talk page to discuss the changes in dispute. Take this time to re-familiarize yourself with Bulbapedia policy. Thank you, - [[User:Kogoro|'''Kogoro''']] '''-''' [[User talk:Kogoro|'''Talk to me''']] - 22:14, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

== Pocket Monsters: The Animation ==

Can you refer to it as ''[[Pocket Monsters: The Animation]]'' so that it shows up on the wanted pages and shows that it needs to be created? Also, do you personally have a copy of the book? --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 02:04, 20 September 2015 (UTC)
:Sure thing, I'll do that in my next edit. Also, I don't personally have a copy of the book, but I do know someone who does: http://cindysuke.tumblr.com/post/34817930237/the-facts-about-pokemon-world-lol [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 02:06, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

== The Preview Button ==
Instead of editing a page several times in a row, try using the preview button to make sure your edit looks the way you want it to. It's right next to the Save Page button. Please try it out, so as not to clog up the Recent Changes. Also, if you want to edit multiple sections of the page, make sure that you click "edit this page" at the top of the page rather than editing it by section. Thanks! --'''—★[[User:Reshii|レシイラム]]''''''[[User talk:Reshii|talk]]''' 11:16, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

== TV Ratings ==

Do you have a source for that? If you do, then state the source. Don't make other users guess and think that it's BS. If the source is Dogasu, then state that you got it from Dogasu. You have been here longer the I have to know that you should always source your information.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 04:35, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

== Serebii ==

Hi! I just want to make sure you know that we cannot take any information from Serebii as it appears you have done for [[Special:Diff/2462919|this Simisear information]]. If you see something on Serebii, make sure you can source it elsewhere first, and even then make doubly and ''triply'' sure that whatever you end up writing here still does not end up copying Serebii. Again, we ''cannot'' take things from Serebii. I hope you understand. =) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 23:21, 25 June 2016 (UTC)
:[[Special:Diff/2500010|This]]... Just to hammer this home: '''''NOTHING''''' is ever to be taken from Serebii, '''''period'''''.
:So, tell me... What is your source regarding XY137? Is it just Serebii? [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 15:05, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
::Serebii made it pretty clear that it came from Newtype Magazine. Here's what it had to say of the episode:
::"'''The Newtype magazine in Japan has revealed another new episode title, this time for the fourty-fourth episodes of Pokémon XY & Z.''' These episodes is set to air on October 6th, following another week break on September 29th. This episode features Clemont helping rebuild Lumiose City Gym after the Team Flare attack.
Episode 940: We Start at Zero! Clemont's Decision!!"
::If that doesn't qualify as a source besides Serebii, I don't know what does. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 15:20, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
:::I'm honestly just disappointed, Weedle. You have been here for a good amount of years and are still making the most simplest of mistakes. Serebii does not qualify for a source, regardless of what he says. He doesn't even post an image of the magazine scan, so no, it's not clear it came from a magazine scan. Saying something does not immediately make something true if you don't show the evidence.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 15:28, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
::::Given your comment [[Special:Diff/2499984|here]], I was also curious where you got "はじまりはゼロ！シトロンの決断！"? [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 15:31, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
:::::I got it here: http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/XY137 [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 16:53, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
::::::Pokemon Wikia isn't a credible source either, because they could add that title just like you could add it here. It isn't an official website. Once there's a picture for the title, it will be posted. [[User:Playerking95|Playerking95]] ([[User talk:Playerking95|talk]]) 16:58, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
:::::::In short, keep in mind that these things should always be ''verifiable''. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 17:02, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

I'd like to add, if your only source for English translations of new episode titles is Serebii, please don't try to use that (even changed a bit) to add the episodes here. That's still basically copying Serebii. Just leave it until someone else can make an independent translation. At worst, post the sources somewhere and let someone else create the episodes with independent translations. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 17:07, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

== PokeSpe reference ==

You are not right by saying that the implication of Silver being Giovanni's son in FR/LG and the subsequent confirmation of this fact in HG/SS is a PokeSpe reference in the games. It was the games that first mentioned the fact. PokeSpe decided to make Silver Giovanni's son only in FR/LG Chapter, which was after the release of FireRed and LeafGreen. So, it is the manga that referenced the game, not the other way 'round. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 16:14, 24 August 2016 (UTC)

== New episode pages ==

When creating a new episode page, please use the {{template|New episode}} template. Otherwise, you get copy/paste errors like with what you did for [[XY138]] and [[XY139]]. Thank you. --[[User:Carmenstar97|Carmen★]] ''[[User talk:Carmenstar97|(Talk |]] [[Special:Contributions/Carmenstar97|contribs)]]'' 13:33, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

== Linking moves ==

Whenever you're linking to a move article, it's important to use the <nowiki>{{m}}</nowiki> template, as shown, to avoid using redirects. For example, <nowiki>{{m|Dark Void}}</nowiki> is the correct usage, not <nowiki>[[Dark Void]]</nowiki>. Just so you know. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 00:16, 30 September 2018 (UTC)

== English Celebi ==

Are you playing a game set to the Japanese language or a system and game from the Japanese region? I have doubts about Celebi having English text for the Japanese region. '''[[User:Lady Ariel|Lady]] [[User talk:Lady Ariel|Ariel]]''' 02:00, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
:I'm playing an English game set to the English language and I downloaded the game from the Nintendo eShop channel on the English Nintendo 3DS. Nothing Japanese at all regarding the game (well, aside from it in general was originally made in Japan, I mean.). I also managed to [https://otnesse.tumblr.com/post/179272822979/proof-that-the-wondercard-description-is-in photograph] it as well. Sorry for it being low quality, but I'm not sure how to get it directly from the game a'la Serebii.net. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 10:01, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
:EDIT: Sorry, now I see what was going on. Shouldn't have done that, dang it. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 10:03, 21 October 2018 (UTC)

== Link templates ==

Hey! I'm going to have to encourage you to read the site's {{bp|list of link templates}} again. Using <nowiki>{{an|Rotom Pokédex}}</nowiki> or simply <nowiki>{{Rotom}}</nowiki> is highly encouraged, not <nowiki>[[Rotom Pokédex (anime)|Rotom]]</nowiki>. Thank you. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 20:24, 6 October 2019 (UTC)

== Using Serebii as a source ==

Once again, you are using Serebii as a source when you know full well that he is not a valid source. It doesn't matter if he's right, just do no use his site as your source. Period. Your source should be the official Japanese site, not someone repeating what the Japanese site is saying.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 13:49, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

== "Advantage" ==

While I acknowlege some of your Team Rocket vs. Caterpie argument, "advantage" doesn't mean that Ash was guaranteed to beat Misty; it simply means that he was objectively in a favorable situation prior to the battle being interrupted (and since this was acknowledged by both Trainers, it's not simply speculation). I decided to rewrite that particular part entirely anyway, but I just wanted to clarify that. In the future, please try to use the talk page instead of edit warring (although I admittedly shouldn't have made that last revert either, so I apologize for that).

Additionally, I never claimed that you were being biased: I actually think you removing the previous wording of "about to win the battle" was the right decision, hence why I decided to try slightly rewording it instead. However, if you're going to say things like "regardless of my views on Misty", "even IF I believed Ash was owed a genuine win", and "my own personal views on the match were irrelevant"... of course I'm going to begin to question if you're truly attempting to be impartial here (especially given your history of Misty-related edits over the past 15 years). [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 10:18, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

:Fine, I'll grant you that much regarding your points, and that your wording was better. Though to be fair, Caterpie was also in extremely low health at that time as well thanks to its earlier near-death against Pidgeotto and... well, you know the rest of that battle and how it turned out for everyone involved (and it was also fairly explicit that it was weak even before the fight against Pidgeotto, much less Team Rocket. After Ash's attempt at capturing Pidgeotto outright without weakening it first just resulted in it escaping easily, Misty reminded him that he needed to battle it first, and also specifically stated the only reason Caterpie got easily captured without a fight was because it was already weak beforehand). I might be fanatically loyal to Misty, I'll admit that much, but I still would have avoided using "advantage" even if I had the exact opposite emotional views of Misty (and in fact, back when I was still on Bulbagarden and the discussion popped up whether Ash or Misty would have won, I gave pretty firm arguments why it wasn't necessarily confirmed Ash was going to win, and made it very clear that my being a Misty fan had absolutely nothing to do with my rationale, and that if anything my rationale actually was tied far more to something that happened with Ash than it ever did with Misty and then cited that particular battle. Granted, PDL pretty much mocked my argument when I cited that battle, but still...). Yes, it's true that Starmie was explicitly low on health, but it's also true that it was still close enough to the water's edge that it merely needed to hop back in and regenerate, though it might need a bit more effort to pull it off. And I mostly had to mention that stuff repeatedly in case someone DID try to accuse me of being biased towards Misty due to past experiences on Serebii, Pokecommunity, and BMGf where they did repeatedly do that. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 02:50, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
::A bit late on this one to reply (eh, still less than 6 months), but your talk page comment for Misty's Starmie (which I replied to, but I figured it would be appropriate to go into a bit more detail here) got me to rewatch EP007 in both Japanese and English, and I believe you misremembered Staryu's situation. What Staryu was actually doing when it dived into the water was negating the usage of Stun Spore and Sleep Powder (kind of similar to Natural Cure, but with water rather than switching out), not healing itself, so the argument that Starmie could still regenerate itself in the water doesn't really hold up. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 22:46, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
:::I didn't actually mention Staryu at all in that argument (my main focus was Starmie, and if anything I didn't even CONSIDER Staryu's earlier dive into the water to alleviate itself of Stun Spore.), and for the record, Starmie's core wasn't even damaged (ie, it didn't crack. The blinking light simply meant it was low on health), which is the only way it won't be able to heal at all barring maybe a Pokemon Center. And even if we were to somehow use that rationale for how it doesn't hold up, Bye Bye Butterfree made it very explicit that Starmie (and presumably Staryu) most certainly can heal itself (and by that, I specifically mean heal its HP back upwards, not simply negating a status effect) when exposed to water, at least as long as its core was intact (there was a scene during Ash, Misty and Brock's confrontation with Team Rocket over the poached Butterfree where James used a sledgehammer on Starmie, landed a direct hit on it and sent it flying into a wall, causing it to slump down in a similar manner to its situation in Waterflowers of Cerulean City, then Misty grabbed a water cannon (presumably from within Team Rocket's hideout) and proceeded to spray a torrent on it, and then it came right back to full strength). And that's not even getting into how Starmie's Pokedex entries back then make it explicit that it can regenerate as long as its core remains intact. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 09:36, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
::::"''I didn't actually mention Staryu at all in that argument (my main focus was Starmie, and if anything I didn't even CONSIDER Staryu's earlier dive into the water to alleviate itself of Stun Spore.)''"
::::You may not have mentioned Staryu, but [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=EP007&diff=3592528&oldid=3592393 you stated here that Starmie could recover by jumping into the pool], which is what Staryu did earlier to negate Stun Spore/Sleep Powder, so I don't feel like it was unreasonable for me to assume that you used Staryu as a basis for that. If that's not the case, then I apologize.
::::"''For the record, Starmie's core wasn't even damaged (ie, it didn't crack. The blinking light simply meant it was low on health), which is the only way it won't be able to heal at all barring maybe a Pokemon Center.''"
::::I'm pretty sure my stance from the very beginning was simply that Starmie was in an objectively disadvantageous position. I never mentioned anything about its core cracking.
::::"''And even if we were to somehow use that rationale for how it doesn't hold up, Bye Bye Butterfree made it very explicit that Starmie (and presumably Staryu) most certainly can heal itself (and by that, I specifically mean heal its HP back upwards, not simply negating a status effect) when exposed to water, at least as long as its core was intact (there was a scene during Ash, Misty and Brock's confrontation with Team Rocket over the poached Butterfree where James used a sledgehammer on Starmie, landed a direct hit on it and sent it flying into a wall, causing it to slump down in a similar manner to its situation in Waterflowers of Cerulean City, then Misty grabbed a water cannon (presumably from within Team Rocket's hideout) and proceeded to spray a torrent on it, and then it came right back to full strength).''"
::::Bit of a sidenote, but it was Jessie that used the sledgehammer. As for the rest: I mentioned this on the talk page for Misty's Starmie as well, but I don't think using future episodes is the greatest counterargument. There are many instances of Pokémon displaying a certain trait for the sake of the progression of the episode, only for it to never be used again (which I'm pretty sure is also what happened here as well).
::::"''And that's not even getting into how Starmie's Pokedex entries back then make it explicit that it can regenerate as long as its core remains intact.''"
::::Those are Staryu's Pokédex entries you're thinking of, which is specifically for lost appendages rather than fully healing itself.
::::My main issue with your argument is that it's built too much on theoretical scenarios rather than what was actually presented within the episode itself. Sure, it's true that Starmie didn't "lose", but I never claimed that it did. I only stated that it was in an disadvantageous situation, which was acknowledged within the episode itself.
::::Also, you mentioned earlier that people have called you biased on Serebii, PokeCommunity, and the Bulbagarden forums. I only say this to try to offer some constructive criticism, but if there are three separate communities saying the same thing, I fear that there may be some truth within their words. If your initial talk page post on Misty's Starmie had been something like "Misty didn't really lose since the battle was interrupted, but I agree that it needs to be rewritten", I would completely understand. Instead, your post contained a fairly lengthy paragraph about the exact circumstances of the battle, theoretical ways in which the battle could have progressed, and a comparison to a separate episode. I feel like that's a bit much considering Temari44 only mentioned the Gym battle in a small part of their post. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 11:55, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
:::::"''You may not have mentioned Staryu, but [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=EP007&diff=3592528&oldid=3592393 you stated here that Starmie could recover by jumping into the pool], which is what Staryu did earlier to negate Stun Spore/Sleep Powder, so I don't feel like it was unreasonable for me to assume that you used Staryu as a basis for that. If that's not the case, then I apologize.''"
:::::I guess you could say Staryu might have been a factor, but even without Staryu, the episode Bye Bye Butterfree already made clear it can fully heal from being exposed to water. And that's not even getting into how Generation III later had Staryu and Starmie have an ability to outright heal from water type attacks (and it wouldn't be the first time they did abilities for Pokemon based on an earlier episode. See Rhydon and it having Lightning Rod as an ability in a direct reference to the infamous Aim for the Horn situation during Blaine's Gym Battle).
:::::"''I'm pretty sure my stance from the very beginning was simply that Starmie was in an objectively disadvantageous position. I never mentioned anything about its core cracking.''"
:::::It still would have been a definite factor in whether or not Starmie would have been in a disadvantageous situation or not (and I define "disadvantageous" as "absolutely no way to get out of trouble", not "small chance of getting out of trouble" but "literally 0% chance"). The only time where being exposed to water DIDN'T heal it was during the battle against Giselle when it was knocked into the pool (which, BTW, the person specifically referenced and I even agreed with him), and even there it was explicitly shown that Starmie's core had been smashed beforehand (which actually backs up its Pokedex entry if anything). If they wanted to actually indicate Misty was inevitably going to lose, they should have made sure to have Starmie's core explicitly crack from impact and then flash to imply that the core was damaged and thus cannot heal. And I realize full well they acknowledged it was that, but that unfortunately isn't enough since I've seen plenty of instances where they outright state an opponent is at a disadvantage with the person winning attempting to press the attack, only for the winning individual to end up defeated at the last second (like Tealc's fight against that fake Jaffah rebel leader for example, or to keep it contained to Pokemon like how Caterpie defeated Jessie and James, heck, how Ash turned the tide against Jessie during his Viridian Gym Match), or otherwise it being made clear afterwards that they weren't in any danger and just trying to increase drama [the latter bit I'm specifically thinking of how Gotenks in an attempt at staging a dramatic finish exaggerated how Super Buu is cleaning his clock, only for Piccolo to take it seriously and seal the Hyperbolic Time Chamber and it then being revealed after the fact that Gotenks was actually bluffing about losing meaning Piccolo blew up the entrance for nothing].). I would have said the same thing if it were Ash and Pidgeotto in their shoes (well, okay, maybe not quite to that level since unlike Starmie, Pidgeotto doesn't heal from absorbing water).
:::::"''Bit of a sidenote, but it was Jessie that used the sledgehammer. As for the rest: I mentioned this on the talk page for Misty's Starmie as well, but I don't think using future episodes is the greatest counterargument. There are many instances of Pokémon displaying a certain trait for the sake of the progression of the episode, only for it to never be used again (which I'm pretty sure is also what happened here as well).''"
:::::Fine, I stand corrected regarding who used the sledgehammer, but my point still stands. And for the record, what you used as a counterargument is a very bad argument in itself, since I can easily use that exact argument to just shut down the wiki altogether and delete all articles precisely BECAUSE they do progression and never bring it up again, thus can't qualify as facts, thus can't allow for an encyclopedia or even summaries (I'm an all or nothing kind of guy). Either way, the fact that Staryu and Starmie later on got Water Absorb would indicate they thought specifically of that scene when deciding on those abilities for them (similar to Rhydon having Lightning Rod), so more likely than not it has that ability. Heck, Misty's Starmie's article even specifically noted that it carried at the very least a similar ability to Water Absorb and cited that particular scene.
:::::"''Those are Staryu's Pokédex entries you're thinking of, which is specifically for lost appendages rather than fully healing itself.''"
:::::Being the evolved form of Staryu, I'm pretty sure Starmie probably retained that ability. Heck, its article even indicated it had regenerative abilities as well.
:::::"''My main issue with your argument is that it's built too much on theoretical scenarios rather than what was actually presented within the episode itself. Sure, it's true that Starmie didn't "lose", but I never claimed that it did. I only stated that it was in an disadvantageous situation, which was acknowledged within the episode itself.''"
:::::As I stated above, the problem is that there have been plenty of instances where they stated they were in a disadvantageous situation in an episode or even a game (both inside the Pokemon anime and even in other franchises), yet the person at a disadvantage outright prevailed against the superior opponent, so that unfortunately isn't even enough to acknowledge that bit (as when I think of disadvantageous situations, I specifically have in mind instances where there's no way to get out of trouble, and by "no way" I mean literally 0% chance of survivability, let alone prevailing.). That's why I still think the situation was very ambiguous ESPECIALLY given Starmie's later being revealed to have a similar ability to Water Absorb during the events of Bye Bye Butterfree. Heck, if anything, Ash's Caterpie came far closer to actually BEING in an explicit disadvantageous situation when he fought Ekans, Koffing, and Meowth due to having the entire deck stacked against him (aside from the illegal at the time 2-on-1 match that Team Rocket forced Ash into, their Ekans and Koffing had significantly more experience than it, plus the fact that both were Poison-types, which gave them a type advantage over his bug-type status, and they had even managed to easily take out Ash's Pidgeotto, who at that time nearly made Caterpie its lunch thanks largely to Ash's stupidity earlier, and that's not even getting into how it was close to fainting by that point thanks to that earlier battle, and even without the Pidgeotto battle was weak enough that Ash didn't even need to battle it just to capture it. Note that I said "came far closer to", not actually WAS a disadvantageous situation, because ultimately Caterpie prevailed).
:::::"''Also, you mentioned earlier that people have called you biased on Serebii, PokeCommunity, and the Bulbagarden forums. I only say this to try to offer some constructive criticism, but if there are three separate communities saying the same thing, I fear that there may be some truth within their words. If your initial talk page post on Misty's Starmie had been something like "Misty didn't really lose since the battle was interrupted, but I agree that it needs to be rewritten", I would completely understand. Instead, your post contained a fairly lengthy paragraph about the exact circumstances of the battle, theoretical ways in which the battle could have progressed, and a comparison to a separate episode. I feel like that's a bit much considering Temari44 only mentioned the Gym battle in a small part of their post.''"
:::::Hey, I tend to get very detailed in my replies. It's basically a quirk of mine due to both my aspergers and also my parents specifically demanding I get more detailed in my answers rather than saying "just because", "I felt like it", or even going extremely general about who "they" are when I say "people". As far as that big about Bulbapedia, Pokecommunity, and Serebii.net, usually it's just the same people who happen to be members of all three sites, and either way, just because three entities claim something doesn't necessarily make it true. Just ask the coverage about the Vietnam War by the major networks. All showed the worst aspects about Vietnam, yet it eventually came to light that all of them, especially the so-called "most trusted man in America" Walter Cronkite, were extremely biased against the war and in Cronkite's case may have even up and out lied through his teeth during the Tet offensive. A similar story can be shown with the Trayvon Martin case. And I only replied in that sense because he specifically said that Misty lost that battle (and I wasn't even disagreeing with his overall argument that Misty's Starmie was weak. If anything, I fully agreed with his argument, including its loss against Giselle's Graveler, and only had a minor quibble with Misty's Starmie being stated to have lost the Cerulean Gym battle, and that's only because there was literally nothing to suggest it lost before Team Rocket interfered.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 21:36, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
::::::"''I guess you could say Staryu might have been a factor, but even without Staryu, the episode Bye Bye Butterfree already made clear it can fully heal from being exposed to water. And that's not even getting into how Generation III later had Staryu and Starmie have an ability to outright heal from water type attacks (and it wouldn't be the first time they did abilities for Pokemon based on an earlier episode. See Rhydon and it having Lightning Rod as an ability in a direct reference to the infamous Aim for the Horn situation during Blaine's Gym Battle).''"
::::::Neither Staryu nor Starmie have Water Absorb as a possible Ability.
::::::"''It still would have been a definite factor in whether or not Starmie would have been in a disadvantageous situation or not (and I define "disadvantageous" as "absolutely no way to get out of trouble", not "small chance of getting out of trouble" but "literally 0% chance").''"
::::::The definition of disadvantage is "an unfavorable circumstance or condition that reduces the chances of success or effectiveness"; it does ''not'' mean "0% chance of prevailing". Misty's Starmie was explicitly stated to be low on energy (but not actually knocked out), which means it was at a disadvantage.
::::::"''The only time where being exposed to water DIDN'T heal it was during the battle against Giselle when it was knocked into the pool (which, BTW, the person specifically referenced and I even agreed with him), and even there it was explicitly shown that Starmie's core had been smashed beforehand (which actually backs up its Pokedex entry if anything).''"
::::::I'm fairly sure that this "water healing" attribute was only ever displayed once in EP021. I don't think it makes a lot of sense to say "the only time where being exposed to water DIDN'T heal it" when it only happened ''once''.
::::::"''If they wanted to actually indicate Misty was inevitably going to lose, they should have made sure to have Starmie's core explicitly crack from impact and then flash to imply that the core was damaged and thus cannot heal. And I realize full well they acknowledged it was that, but that unfortunately isn't enough since I've seen plenty of instances where they outright state an opponent is at a disadvantage with the person winning attempting to press the attack, only for the winning individual to end up defeated at the last second (like Tealc's fight against that fake Jaffah rebel leader for example, or to keep it contained to Pokemon like how Caterpie defeated Jessie and James, heck, how Ash turned the tide against Jessie during his Viridian Gym Match), or otherwise it being made clear afterwards that they weren't in any danger and just trying to increase drama [the latter bit I'm specifically thinking of how Gotenks in an attempt at staging a dramatic finish exaggerated how Super Buu is cleaning his clock, only for Piccolo to take it seriously and seal the Hyperbolic Time Chamber and it then being revealed after the fact that Gotenks was actually bluffing about losing meaning Piccolo blew up the entrance for nothing].). I would have said the same thing if it were Ash and Pidgeotto in their shoes (well, okay, maybe not quite to that level since unlike Starmie, Pidgeotto doesn't heal from absorbing water).''"
::::::Again, a disadvantage is not an unwinnable situation. I also don't think the Gotenks situation is comparable since it was made clear to the readers/viewers that he was faking it even before Piccolo destroyed the door (and truth be told, Gotenks ultimately ''did'' fail to beat Super Buu because he's an idiot and refused to actually take the fight seriously until much later). [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 22:59, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
::::::"''Fine, I stand corrected regarding who used the sledgehammer, but my point still stands. And for the record, what you used as a counterargument is a very bad argument in itself, since I can easily use that exact argument to just shut down the wiki altogether and delete all articles precisely BECAUSE they do progression and never bring it up again, thus can't qualify as facts, thus can't allow for an encyclopedia or even summaries (I'm an all or nothing kind of guy).''"
::::::I'm sorry, but I feel like this is a huge stretch. My argument is based on information specifically presented in the episode itself, while yours is theorizing on how Misty could still make a comeback based on information ''not'' presented in the episode. I don't see how Starmie displaying a one-time attribute of being rejuvenated from a water blast in a later episode should be used as an argument for the Gym battle; Misty never said anything like "If I can just get Starmie into the water, I still have a chance".
::::::"''Either way, the fact that Staryu and Starmie later on got Water Absorb would indicate they thought specifically of that scene when deciding on those abilities for them (similar to Rhydon having Lightning Rod), so more likely than not it has that ability. Heck, Misty's Starmie's article even specifically noted that it carried at the very least a similar ability to Water Absorb and cited that particular scene.''""
::::::Just to reiterate: '''Neither Staryu nor Starmie have Water Absorb as a possible Ability'''. Their regular abilities are Illuminate and Natural Cure, along with gaining Analytic as a Hidden Ability starting with Gen V.
::::::"''Being the evolved form of Staryu, I'm pretty sure Starmie probably retained that ability. Heck, its article even indicated it had regenerative abilities as well.''"
::::::Again, this is used in the context of lost body parts. It's certainly not something like an immediate healing factor.
::::::"''As I stated above, the problem is that there have been plenty of instances where they stated they were in a disadvantageous situation in an episode or even a game (both inside the Pokemon anime and even in other franchises), yet the person at a disadvantage outright prevailed against the superior opponent, so that unfortunately isn't even enough to acknowledge that bit (as when I think of disadvantageous situations, I specifically have in mind instances where there's no way to get out of trouble, and by "no way" I mean literally 0% chance of survivability, let alone prevailing.). That's why I still think the situation was very ambiguous ESPECIALLY given Starmie's later being revealed to have a similar ability to Water Absorb during the events of Bye Bye Butterfree. Heck, if anything, Ash's Caterpie came far closer to actually BEING in an explicit disadvantageous situation when he fought Ekans, Koffing, and Meowth due to having the entire deck stacked against him (aside from the illegal at the time 2-on-1 match that Team Rocket forced Ash into, their Ekans and Koffing had significantly more experience than it, plus the fact that both were Poison-types, which gave them a type advantage over his bug-type status, and they had even managed to easily take out Ash's Pidgeotto, who at that time nearly made Caterpie its lunch thanks largely to Ash's stupidity earlier, and that's not even getting into how it was close to fainting by that point thanks to that earlier battle, and even without the Pidgeotto battle was weak enough that Ash didn't even need to battle it just to capture it. Note that I said "came far closer to", not actually WAS a disadvantageous situation, because ultimately Caterpie prevailed).''"
::::::Again, a disadvantage is not an unwinnable situation, just a situation that is harder to win from. There's nothing wrong with saying that Starmie was at a disadvantage, since that's what was displayed and stated within the episode itself.
::::::"''Hey, I tend to get very detailed in my replies. It's basically a quirk of mine due to both my aspergers and also my parents specifically demanding I get more detailed in my answers rather than saying "just because", "I felt like it", or even going extremely general about who "they" are when I say "people". As far as that big about Bulbapedia, Pokecommunity, and Serebii.net, usually it's just the same people who happen to be members of all three sites, and either way, just because three entities claim something doesn't necessarily make it true. '''Just ask the coverage about the Vietnam War by the major networks. All showed the worst aspects about Vietnam, yet it eventually came to light that all of them, especially the so-called "most trusted man in America" Walter Cronkite, were extremely biased against the war and in Cronkite's case may have even up and out lied through his teeth during the Tet offensive. A similar story can be shown with the Trayvon Martin case.'''''"
::::::This is an ''extreme'' comparison. One person's conduct on the Internet in regards to a fictional character from an anime is not at all equivalent to '''war or murder'''. At the very least, it's undeniable that a lot of conflict that you've run into on these sites are related to Misty (honestly, I can just look at earlier posts on this very talk page even before this particular discussion started). It's one thing to claim that you're not being biased and another to actually showcase that you're not being biased. You even admitted earlier that you're "fanatically loyal to Misty". [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 22:59, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
:::::::If I were to be biased regarding Misty, I'd have rewritten every loss she had to be eradicated and thus indicated she never lost (either that, or if I genuinely hated Misty, rewrite everything to outright EXAGGERATE her loss ratio to imply she has a similarly bad track record to Team Rocket). Not only did I not do that, I actually agreed with the guy who tried to defend Starmie's overall track record that the Giselle bit WAS indeed a loss (a story-required loss, yes, but a loss nonetheless, and if I agreed that the Giselle bit was a loss, that is indeed showcasing I'm NOT biased. Someone who truly IS biased towards Misty in terms of liking her would never agree to her having a single loss at all). No, I'm not being biased, even if I do have fanatical loyalty to Misty (someone who's truly biased would literally rewrite the entire wiki to either avoid listing any, and I do mean literally ANY flaws she might have, or exaggerate her flaws to such a degree that they come across as the absolute worst person to ever live). Heck, I have an absolute hatred of May and to a lesser extent Dawn, yet you don't see me editing their articles to paint them in the absolute worst light imaginable (which WOULD be the very definition of bias, BTW). If anything, I AM attempting to be VERY objective in my edits especially regarding Misty. Also, a huge amount of stuff on here literally only happened in single episodes, or so few episodes that they barely even matter, yet they're still noted as actually having happened as if they had any importance, so that's far from a rebuttal regarding whether or not Starmie could indeed heal from it (and once is more than enough to indicate it would happen). I might as well also point out that I focus on the connections between generalities and details, so I DON'T limit myself to whether it's demonstrated in a single episode or not. Otherwise, Ash's Ho-Oh connection is meaningless since they never bring it up since the beginning of DP, and his Aura abilities also only showed up a few times in DP. And I do agree ultimately Misty's Starmie was weakened, but we have no conclusive proof that it would have lost, period, hence why I tried to rewrite it the way I did earlier as that's the only actual way to write it. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 02:13, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
::::::::Everything that you're describing is simply bias taken to the logical extreme (i.e. to the point of being completely unreasonable), which is an exaggeration and doesn't actually disprove whether or not you're partial to Misty (which I think is fairly obvious at this point). Again, what's important in this instance is the info presented in the episode itself, which is less speculatory than thinking of ways that Misty "could" win or not. Again, I never said she actually lost. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 03:27, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

== Pokémon ==

When writing "Pokémon" or "Poké", don't forget to write the "e" as "é". Also, the word "Trainer" is capitalized. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 00:06, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

== Sensational Sisters ==

There's no indication in Japanese or English that Misty "quit" being a Gym Leader; she simply says that she left her sisters in charge of the Gym. Please don't just plainly revert me and discuss things on the talk page first. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 12:13, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
:I watched both Japanese with Subs and the English dub with Closed Captioning, and this is what she says when the topic is brought up:
:"When I saw you [Satoshi] battling, I just couldn’t sit still! So I left Hanada Gym to my sisters and set off on a journey."
:"After watching your [Ash's] battle, I just couldn't stay still a second longer! And so, I left the [Cerulean] Gym with my sisters in charge, and started a journey!"
:And while it's true that it doesn't use the exact word "quit" in there, it's pretty clear that's what's being implied especially when past episodes have made it clear that you can't engage in a Pokemon Journey while you're a Gym Leader (in fact, such a restraint was made explicit as early as [[EP005|Showdown at Pewter City]] from both Flint AND Brock, and I think Candace and Zoey both alluded to this restraint in that episode of Diamond and Pearl.). Besides, no one talks like that about a position they simply were on temporary leave from (I sure don't). That sounds more like the kind of talk a guy gives when he's about to quit his job for a better one. A good contrast would be her reappearance in Alola (second one) where she explicitly stated that a major part of why she went to Alola besides visiting Ash was to take a break from the swarms of Gym Challengers that were arriving. Either way, she definitely never mentioned the gym at all in JN147, much less resuming gym duties (the most we got was Brock eagerly telling Misty to say hi to her sisters for him before Croagunk toxic stabbed him), and considering most instances she either explicitly mentions she has to resume gym duties when she departs (Mirage Kingdom Arc, the Kanto, Alola arc) or otherwise its made very clear she had to resume Gym Duties (beginning of Battle Frontier where Daisy basically called Misty and threatened to hand badges out again if she didn't return, Mastermind as well since it's made explicit she was only there due to being invited alongside Oak and was most likely going to return to the Gym afterward), the fact that she makes absolutely NO mention of gym duties at all means she most likely wasn't going back to being a Gym Leader that time. Let's not forget, Brock also returned to Pewter City in the same episode, and he's repeatedly stated to no longer be a Gym Leader and thus obviously wasn't going to be resuming gym duties. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 12:29, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
::Most of what you've outlined is your own headcanon with no real proof that she quit being a Gym Leader, which you also just admitted to.
::''"I watched both Japanese with Subs and the English dub with Closed Captioning, and this is what she says when the topic is brought up:''
::''"When I saw you [Satoshi] battling, I just couldn’t sit still! So I left Hanada Gym to my sisters and set off on a journey."''
::''"After watching your [Ash's] battle, I just couldn't stay still a second longer! And so, I left the [Cerulean] Gym with my sisters in charge, and started a journey!"''
::Yes, I also watched both. Again, there's no mention of her quitting.
::"''And while it's true that it doesn't use the exact word "quit" in there, it's pretty clear that's what's being implied especially when past episodes have made it clear that you can't engage in a Pokemon Journey while you're a Gym Leader (in fact, such a restraint was made explicit as early as [[EP005|Showdown at Pewter City]] from both Flint AND Brock, and I think Candace and Zoey both alluded to this restraint in that episode of Diamond and Pearl.).''"
::I'm pretty sure that you just can't leave a Gym '''unattended''' without another Gym Leader looking after it. Brock was able to leave on a journey after leaving Pewter Gym in Flint's care (and Lt. Surge also left Vermilion Gym in Visquez's care while he went on his own journey). Both Flint and Brock were considered official Gym Leaders even as late as DPS02.
::"''Besides, no one talks like that about a position they simply were on temporary leave from (I sure don't). That sounds more like the kind of talk a guy gives when he's about to quit his job for a better one. A good contrast would be her reappearance in Alola (second one) where she explicitly stated that a major part of why she went to Alola besides visiting Ash was to take a break from the swarms of Gym Challengers that were arriving.''"
::Firstly, you can't claim that "no one talks like that about a position they simply were on temporary leave from" when plenty of people watched that episode without ever getting the impression that she "quit". Secondly, this is speculation.
::"''Either way, she definitely never mentioned the gym at all in JN147, much less resuming gym duties (the most we got was Brock eagerly telling Misty to say hi to her sisters for him before Croagunk toxic stabbed him), and considering most instances she either explicitly mentions she has to resume gym duties when she departs (Mirage Kingdom Arc, the Kanto, Alola arc) or otherwise its made very clear she had to resume Gym Duties (beginning of Battle Frontier where Daisy basically called Misty and threatened to hand badges out again if she didn't return, Mastermind as well since it's made explicit she was only there due to being invited alongside Oak and was most likely going to return to the Gym afterward), the fact that she makes absolutely NO mention of gym duties at all means she most likely wasn't going back to being a Gym Leader that time. Let's not forget, Brock also returned to Pewter City in the same episode, and he's repeatedly stated to no longer be a Gym Leader and thus obviously wasn't going to be resuming gym duties.''"
::Most of this is speculation (outside of her not mentioning resuming Gym Leader duties). However, my reworded edit didn't say that she resumed her duties, just that her sisters look after the Gym when she's away.
::I also maintain that you should not have reverted me twice before going to the talk page. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 13:16, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
:::Actually, Brock was repeatedly considered an ex-Gym Leader/Former Gym Leader by the Alola, Kanto arc (more specifically, the episode where Brock and Misty show them the ropes at Cerulean Gym regarding gym battles), which was well after the events of DPS02. I'd know, I watched it on PokemonTV when it came out with closed captioning. Even made particular note about that bit. Only Misty was specifically stated to be an actual current Gym Leader in that episode. And last I checked, Giovanni didn't explicitly make Jessie, James and Meowth Gym Leaders (they merely assumed they became Gym Leaders) and if anything his orders to them made it sound as though he specifically wanted them to guard against a possible attack on the Gym ("Use these [Pokemon] in the event of an emergency!"). And as far as Lt. Surge is concerned, quite frankly, ESPECIALLY after Brock was explicitly considered a former Gym Leader, ie, one who is no longer a gym leader at all, that means Lt. Surge isn't a gym leader by that point either (besides, Flint's not even a Gym Leader anymore, Forrest is, and most certainly was an official one by DPS02.). And the whole "unattended" issue is its own problem since, ignoring how Giovanni's apparently running Team Rocket without actually BEING at the gym prior to Battle of the Badge (afterwards, he most likely quit the position), we had Fantina being absent from the gym for a good long while, being absent TWICE, in fact, both times when Ash tried to challenge her, and didn't even get a slap on the wrist for it, much less had her gym priviledges revoked for it. And I still stand by my statement that there's no way Misty would say something like that if she wasn't quitting the position. And BTW, that stuff I described wasn't headcanon. That was evidence directly from the episode and related episodes. Want to know what ACTUAL headcanon is? Misty's parents being murdered by Team Rocket members and her nearly being killed by them as a baby, and then being adopted by the Sensational Sisters, stuff that had literally no basis whatsoever from the series and something I made up in its entirety (and yes, I actually DID write that as a fanfic). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 13:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
::::"''Actually, Brock was repeatedly considered an ex-Gym Leader/Former Gym Leader by the Alola, Kanto arc (more specifically, the episode where Brock and Misty show them the ropes at Cerulean Gym regarding gym battles), which was well after the events of DPS02. I'd know, I watched it on PokemonTV when it came out with closed captioning. Even made particular note about that bit. Only Misty was specifically stated to be an actual current Gym Leader in that episode.''"
::::None of this has any relevance to what I was talking about.
::::"''And last I checked, Giovanni didn't explicitly make Jessie, James and Meowth Gym Leaders (they merely assumed they became Gym Leaders) and if anything his orders to them made it sound as though he specifically wanted them to guard against a possible attack on the Gym ("Use these [Pokemon] in the event of an emergency!").''"
::::I never even brought up Viridian Gym since its circumstances are much different from other Gyms.
::::"''And as far as Lt. Surge is concerned, quite frankly, ESPECIALLY after Brock was explicitly considered a former Gym Leader, ie, one who is no longer a gym leader at all, that means Lt. Surge isn't a gym leader by that point either (besides, Flint's not even a Gym Leader anymore, Forrest is, and most certainly was an official one by DPS02.). And the whole "unattended" issue is its own problem since, ignoring how Giovanni's apparently running Team Rocket without actually BEING at the gym prior to Battle of the Badge (afterwards, he most likely quit the position), we had Fantina being absent from the gym for a good long while, being absent TWICE, in fact, both times when Ash tried to challenge her, and didn't even get a slap on the wrist for it, much less had her gym priviledges revoked for it.''"
::::First of all, Visquez is referred to outright as a substitute Gym Leader for Lt. Surge, meaning Lt. Surge is definitely still a Gym Leader. This leads to my second point...
::::You're quite mistaken on several things regarding the status of the Pewter Gym Leader, as well as the restrictions on Gym Leaders traveling. Brock left Pewter Gym to Flint in order to travel with Ash for a lengthy amount of time and was STILL considered an official Gym Leader by DPS02 as far as the Pokémon Inspection Agency was concerned. The Nurse Joy from said agency explicitly refused to battle Forrest at first, and would only accept a battle from Brock or Flint (meaning that Flint was ''also'' still considered an official Gym Leader). While Forrest had been conducting Gym battles prior to this, he was not the ''official'' Gym Leader since Flint never delivered the paperwork to officiate the change, and only obtained the title during the events of the episode itself.
::::Between Brock leaving Pewter Gym to Flint (again, both of them still had their titles by DPS02), Lt. Surge leaving Vermilion Gym to Visquez, and Clemont leaving Lumiose Gym to Clembot, there's no indication that Gym Leaders will lose their titles just because they decided to travel, provided that someone is running the Gym (and even then, Fantina was never penalized for being absent, as you've already mentioned). Even Misty already had the title of Gym Leader prior to the beginning of the series.
::::"''And I still stand by my statement that there's no way Misty would say something like that if she wasn't quitting the position.''"
::::Literally nothing about her dialogue indicates that she "quit". I have no idea why you're so convinced otherwise.
::::"''And BTW, that stuff I described wasn't headcanon. That was evidence directly from the episode and related episodes. Want to know what ACTUAL headcanon is? Misty's parents being murdered by Team Rocket members and her nearly being killed by them as a baby, and then being adopted by the Sensational Sisters, stuff that had literally no basis whatsoever from the series and something I made up in its entirety (and yes, I actually DID write that as a fanfic).''"
::::Your personal interpretation of events is still headcanon. I don't know what you're trying to prove here by talking about your fanfiction. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 16:29, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
:::::The first bit actually has quite a bit of relevance, since you stated Brock and Flint were both Gym Leaders, and I was pointing out that Brock WASN'T considered a Gym Leader by that episode (the Alola, Kanto Gym episode). They wouldn't call him a "former" Gym Leader if he still was one, as former means he no longer is one in any capacity.
:::::But, fine, we'll keep it to your rendition, but I'm doubtful they'd have Misty make that kind of emphasis regarding her resuming her journey if she was still an active gym leader (even with Lt. Surge, he had to specifically confer it onto Vasquez, and going by DPS02, such had to be done formally to the PIA's knowledge for it to stick.). Either way, I'm still rewording it a bit to note that she took over as the primary Gym Leader due to her status as Gym Leader being made apparent as early as EP007, both English Dub and Japanese version, which her sisters didn't even deny, which you yourself pointed out.
:::::And my point with the fanfic bit is defining precisely what "headcanon" is. And what I pointed out from the episodes is NOT "headcanon", as it's literally what's shown in the Episode, and what is said in there. If I were to go by my own personal interpretations on an episode, I'd even go as far as to state blatantly false stuff like saying Misty torched the gym when she left just because, hey, I imagined her doing that before she left, despite it never being shown or even alluded to (not to mention would blatantly be out of character for Misty as she's characterized in the anime). If I were to do that, THEN you can denounce me as engaging in "headcanon." Otherwise, don't. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 19:43, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

Sensational Sisters

2024-06-15T19:34:23Z

Weedle Mchairybug: Fine, but we ought to at least reword it a little bit, since even EP007, it's made clear she was a Gym Leader herself, well before Cerulean Blues where she basically took full time.

[[File:Sensational Sisters.png|thumb|250px|{{an|Violet}}, {{an|Daisy}}, and {{ka|Lily}}—The Sensational Sisters (left to right)]]
The '''Sensational Sisters''' (Japanese: '''ハナダ{{tt|水|みず}}{{tt|姉妹|しまい}}''' ''[[Cerulean City|Hanada]] Water Sisters'') are a group consisting of {{an|Misty}}'s three older sisters, {{an|Daisy}}, {{an|Violet}}, and {{ka|Lily}}. At some point before the series, the sisters were put in charge of the [[Cerulean Gym]]. However, after {{Gary}} and the other two {{pkmn|Trainer}}s from [[Pallet Town]] defeated them one after the other, they decided to stop accepting challenges and instead perform water ballet shows for the residents of [[Cerulean City]]. Their younger sister {{an|Misty}} would eventually take over their position as primary [[Gym Leader]], although she would continue to leave the Gym under their charge whenever she isn't present.

==In the anime==
===History===
====Pre-series====
When {{an|Misty}} left prior to ''[[EP001|Pokémon - I Choose You!]]'' to become a {{t|Water}} [[Pokémon Master]], {{an|Daisy}}, {{an|Violet}} and {{ka|Lily}} were put in charge of the [[Cerulean Gym]].

====[[Original series]]====
The Sensational Sisters debuted in ''[[EP007|The Water Flowers of Cerulean City]]''. When {{Ash}} came to the [[Cerulean Gym|Gym]] to earn his {{Badge|Cascade}}, they turned down his challenge. They explained that after {{Gary}} and the other two {{pkmn|Trainer}}s from [[Pallet Town]] defeated them consecutively, they decided to stop battling and to instead perform water shows for the residents of [[Cerulean City]]. {{an|Daisy}} then offered to give the Cascade Badge to Ash for free. Misty, however, appeared and challenged Ash to a battle with the Badge as a prize. After Ash and {{AP|Pikachu}} saved the Gym from {{TRT}}, the sisters decided to award him a Cascade Badge despite the fact that he hadn't defeated Misty. They wished Misty well on her personal quest, hoping that her efforts would amount to something.

Misty stopped by the Cerulean Gym to drop off her {{TP|Misty|Starmie}} and {{TP|Misty|Horsea}} to play there in ''[[EP061|The Misty Mermaid]]''. Upon arriving, she realized that her sisters continued to pursue their performing ambitions and neglected the Gym, and was also enlisted in their latest play, the Underwater Ballet. Team Rocket gate-crashed the performance, and tied Lily and Violet up. While Daisy freed the pair, the sisters watched Ash and {{ashfr}} battle Team Rocket underwater. Violet sent out [[Misty's Psyduck]] in a bid to defeat Team Rocket, though its fear of water made it useless and embarrassing. The show proved to be a massive hit with the crowd, who were unaware that Team Rocket's appearance was not part of the show, and the sisters' show was booked for the next six months.

In ''[[EP256|Just Add Water]]'', [[Dorian]], an ambitious Water expert who runs the unofficial [[Coastline Gym]], is a big fan of the Sensational Sisters. Having met them several times, he became inspired to perform his own synchronized water shows.

In ''[[EP273|Gotta Catch Ya Later!]]'', the sisters called Misty to tell her that they had won a trip around the world after Daisy placed third in a pageant competition. They made Misty return to Cerulean City and abandon her travels with Ash and {{an|Brock}}, so she could take over the role of Gym Leader during their absence.

====[[Pokémon Chronicles]]====
Misty returned at the Cerulean Gym to officially take over in ''[[HS02|Cerulean Blues]]'', only to find that her sisters had already left the Gym with several fans, who struggled with {{TP|Misty|Gyarados}}'s rage, while they were on holiday. Misty contacted her sisters, who were enjoying a beachside vacation, in ''[[HS05|The Blue Badge of Courage]]''. Daisy informed her that she would need to go to [[Rifure Village]] to receive a supply of Cascade Badges before quickly signing off. They returned to the Gym two weeks before ''[[HS11|A Date with Delcatty]]''. However, Misty remained the official Gym Leader, with Daisy and the other sisters filling in when Misty was away.

In ''[[HS16|Luvdisc is a Many Splendored Thing!]]'', Daisy appeared without her other two sisters, and proudly showed off [[Caserin and Luverin]] to {{Tracey}}. After defeating [[Butch]] and [[Cassidy]], the Sensational Sisters performed in another water ballet show. However, their views of battling did not improve during this time, and in ''[[AG134|A Real Cleffa-Hanger]]'', Daisy asked Misty if they could simply give Badges to the Trainers instead of properly battling them.

====''[[Pokémon the Series: Sun & Moon]]''====
[[File:Sensational Sisters Sun and Moon.png|thumb|250px|Sensational Sisters in ''[[Pokémon the Series: Sun & Moon]]'']]
After a long absence, the sisters reappeared in fantasy during the [[Poké Problem]] segment of [[SM042]], where they ditched the Gym to go on another trip, leaving Misty in charge of everything.

They reappeared during a fantasy in ''[[SM102|Alola, Alola!]]'', when Misty revealed that she had left the Gym under their charge during her trip to [[Alola]].

====''[[Pokémon Journeys: The Series]]''====
They reappeared during a fantasy in ''[[JN138|A Fated Face-Off!]]'', when Misty revealed that she had left the Gym under their charge during her new journey. They appeared in another fantasy in the [[JN139|next episode]], after Cilan mentioned them when Misty references her status as the Cerulean City Gym Leader, and also alludes to their viewing Misty as the spare, much to her chagrin.

===Pokémon===
The following Pokémon are used by the Sensational Sisters.

====Daisy====
:''See {{DL|Daisy (anime)|Pokémon|Daisy → Pokémon}}''

====Lily====
:''See {{DL|Lily (Kanto)|Pokémon|Lily → Pokémon}}''

====Unknown====
It is unknown which sister owns each of the following Pokémon.
{{TrainerPoké
|main=Dewgong (Cerulean Gym)
|stage1=Seel
|trainer=Sensational Sisters
|pkmn=Dewgong
|type1=Water
|type2=Ice
|img=Cerulean Gym Dewgong.png
|epnum=EP007
|epname=The Water Flowers of Cerulean City
|vajp=Yūji Ueda
|vaen=Michael Haigney
|desc={{p|Dewgong}} first appeared as a {{p|Seel}}, holding out the {{badge|Cascade}}, when {{Ash}} was about to challenge the Sensational Sisters. Later, Seel was one of the Pokémon performing in a play hosted by the sisters. It evolved into a Dewgong while battling [[Jessie's Arbok]].}}

{{TrainerPoké
|trainer=Sensational Sisters
|pkmn=Seaking
|type1=Water
|img=Cerulean Gym Seaking.png
|epnum=EP061
|epname=The Misty Mermaid
|desc=The Sensational Sisters' {{p|Seaking}} inhabits the pool in the [[Cerulean Gym]] along with many other Water Pokémon. It first appeared in a water performance called "Underwater Ballet" swimming with the other Pokémon alongside {{an|Misty}} playing the mermaid, then pretending to go to sleep. When {{TRT}} took over the show and captured several {{p|Goldeen}}, Seaking helped by jabbing its horn into [[Jessie's Arbok]] and in the end the Goldeen got free. It was later seen in the finale of the performance.

It made a brief cameo in ''[[HS02|Cerulean Blues]]'', in the aquarium.

Seaking's known moves are {{m|Horn Attack}} and {{m|Horn Drill}}.}}

{{TrainerPoké
|trainer=Sensational Sisters
|pkmn=Goldeen (multiple)
|type1=Water
|img=Cerulean Gym Goldeen.png
|cap=Sensational Sisters' Goldeen
|epnum=EP007
|epname=The Water Flowers of Cerulean City
|desc=A whole group of {{p|Goldeen}} belonging to the Sensational Sisters appeared in a water performance called "Underwater Ballet" swimming with the other Pokémon alongside {{an|Misty}} playing the mermaid, then pretending to go to sleep. When {{TRT}} took over the show, they got the Goldeen trapped in a net. In the end, with the help of {{Ash}} and {{ashfr}} including {{p|Seaking}} and {{OBP|Dewgong|Cerulean Gym}}, they were able to get the Goldeen free. They were later seen in the finale of the performance.

Three make a brief cameo in ''[[HS02|Cerulean Blues]]'' in the aquarium.

None of Goldeen's moves are known.}}

{{TrainerPoké
|trainer=Sensational Sisters
|pkmn=Shellder (multiple)
|type1=Water
|img=Cerulean Gym Shellder.png
|cap=Sensational Sisters' Shellder
|epnum=EP061
|epname=The Misty Mermaid
|desc=The Sensational Sisters's {{p|Shellder}} inhabits the pool in the [[Cerulean Gym]] along with many other Water Pokémon. It first appeared in a water performance called "Underwater Ballet" swimming with the other Pokémon alongside {{an|Misty}} playing the mermaid, then pretending to go to sleep. They were later seen in the finale of the performance.

One of them makes a brief cameo in ''[[HS02|Cerulean Blues]]'' in the aquarium.

None of Shellder's moves are known.}}

{{TrainerPoké
|trainer=Sensational Sisters
|pkmn=Seel
|type1=Water
|img=Cerulean Gym Seel 2.png
|epnum=HS02
|epname=Cerulean Blues
|desc=The Sensational Sisters were revealed to have owned another {{p|Seel}} in the Gym.

None of Seel's moves are known.}}

==In the manga==
[[File:Sensational Sisters AoP.png|thumb|200px|The Sensational Sisters in [[Ash & Pikachu]]]]
===Ash & Pikachu===
The Sensational Sisters appeared in a cameo in ''[[SP17|Let's Save Pikachu!!]]'', when {{Ash}} recalled how {{an|Misty}} had left the group to take care of the [[Cerulean Gym]] while her sisters traveled the world.

[[File:Sensational Sisters EToP.png|thumb|left|150px|The Sensational Sisters in The Electric Tale of Pikachu]]
===The Electric Tale of Pikachu===
Daisy, Violet, and Lily appeared in [[The Electric Tale of Pikachu]], which is based on the Pokémon anime. Like in the anime, the three sisters run the [[Cerulean Gym]] together. However, unlike in the anime, Misty shares equal power with them, and they seem to get along better with her for the most part.

They first appeared in ''[[ET02|Play Misty For Me]]''. They were originally going to battle {{OBP|Ash Ketchum|EToP|Ash}} for the {{badge|Cascade}}, but Misty appeared at the last minute and asked that she battle him instead. They teased Misty about the battle later, implying that she may have [[PokéShipping|a crush on Ash]].

The Sensational Sisters appeared again later in ''[[ET05|The Human Race and the Pokémon Race]]'', where they were attending the [[Nomads Independence Day]] festival with Misty.

Like many female characters in the manga, the Sensational Sisters are all depicted with large busts, though this is edited out of [[VIZ Media]]'s English translations.

[[File:Sensational Sisters M22 manga.png|thumb|200px|Misty and her sisters in ''Mewtwo Strikes Back—Evolution'']]
===Movie adaptations===
The sisters appeared in a flashback of Ash's adventures in ''{{ma|Mewtwo Strikes Back—Evolution}}''.
{{-}}

==Trivia==
* In ''[[EP007|The Water Flowers of Cerulean City]]'', Misty called herself "the youngest sensational sister," but her sisters told her that she did not yet possess the qualities needed to become one.
** Similarly, in The Electric Tale of Pikachu, Misty tells Ash that he will never forget "the four sisters of Cerulean." Ash responds with, "You mean, the three sisters and the loser!"
* The sisters are all named after a type of flower.
* {{an|Daisy}} is the only sister that has a nicknamed Pokémon.
* The three {{tc|Beauty|Beauties}} at the Cerulean Gym in [[Pokémon: Let's Go, Pikachu! and Let's Go, Eevee!]] are named after the Sensational Sisters.
* In Takeshi Shudō's novel, ''[[Pocket Monsters: The Animation]]'', it is revealed that these sisters are actually wearing wigs and that their natural hair color is black.
* In the English dub of the anime, Misty's sisters all speak with Valley girl accents.

==In other languages==
{{Langtable|color={{water color}}|bordercolor={{water color light}}
|da=De sensationelle søstre
|de=Azuria-Schwestern
|fi=Sensaatiomaiset siskokset
|es=Hermanas Sensacionales
|fr=Sœurs Sensationnelles
|it=Sorelle Sensazionali
|pt=Irmãs Sensacionais
|sv=De sensationella systrarna
}}

{{-}}
{{Project Anime notice|no}}

{{DEFAULTSORTKEY:Sensational Sisters}}
[[Category:Anime characters]]
[[Category:Gym Leaders]]
[[Category:Female characters]]

[[de:Azuria-Schwestern]]
[[fr:Sœurs Sensationnelles]]
[[it:Sorelle Sensazionali]]

Team Rocket trio

2024-06-15T16:31:07Z

Weedle Mchairybug: /* Characters */

[[File:Team Rocket trio SM.png|thumb|180px|Official art of Jessie, James, Meowth, and Wobbuffet from ''[[Pokémon the Series: Sun & Moon]]'']]
The '''Team Rocket trio''', sometimes abbreviated as '''TRio''' or '''JJM''', and often referred to simply as "Team Rocket", is a trio of members of [[Team Rocket]], consisting of [[Jessie]], [[James]], and {{MTR}}. In the [[Pokémon anime]], they are the primary antagonists from the [[original series]] to ''[[Pokémon Journeys: The Series]]'', and the most frequently appearing members of Team Rocket.

==Terminology==
In {{game|Yellow}}, both [[Jessie]] and [[James]] appear as unnamed characters. The Team Rocket trio is known collectively as "'''ROCKET'''" (Japanese: '''ロケットだんいん''' ''Team Rocket Member''; in the end-battle dialogue, shortened to '''だんいん''' ''Member''). For instance: ''"'''ROCKET''' wants to fight!"'' This is the same designation used in all [[Generation I]] games for the characters who would be later known as the {{tc|Team Rocket Grunt|Team Rocket Grunts}}.

In the [[core series]] games, Jessie and James were first named in [[Pokémon: Let's Go, Pikachu! and Let's Go, Eevee!]]. In addition to the {{pkmn|anime}}, they are also named in some spin-off games, including [[Pokémon Puzzle League]], {{pkmn|Zany Cards}}, {{pkmn|Mezastar}}, {{pkmn|GO}}, and {{pkmn|Masters EX}}.

==In the anime==
===Main series===
====History====
=====Pre-series=====
[[File:HS12.png|thumb|220px|Team Rocket in their training uniforms]]
The Team Rocket trio were inducted as official Team Rocket members in ''[[HS12|Training Daze]]''. They joined Team Rocket separately and were on initially unfriendly terms after being grouped with {{MTR}} but they quickly made up and became good friends. The trio's rivalry with [[Butch]] and [[Cassidy]] was also formed at the [[Team Rocket Academy]].

=====[[Original series]]=====
[[File:Team Rocket party Original series.png|thumb|220px|left|Team Rocket with all of their Pokémon in the original series (minus {{TP|Jessie|Wobbuffet}})]]
The Team Rocket trio first appeared in ''[[EP002|Pokémon Emergency]]'', in which they took over the {{ci|Viridian}} [[Pokémon Center]]. After their first defeat at the hands of {{Ash}}'s {{AP|Pikachu}} convinced them of his extraordinary power, the trio made their main goal to capture Pikachu.

The trio's general incompetence usually makes them incapable of helping Team Rocket with their significant plans.

In ''[[EP014|Electric Shock Showdown]]'', after hearing that Pikachu would fight to defend his own honor and Ash's, the trio were inspired to cheer on Pikachu before his rematch against {{gy|Vermilion}} [[Gym Leader]] [[Lt. Surge]]'s {{TP|Lt. Surge|Raichu}}.

In ''[[EP015|Battle Aboard the St. Anne]]'', they led the invasion of the [[S.S. Anne|St. Anne]], where they and dozens of {{tc|Team Rocket Grunt}}s stole numerous Pokémon and Poké Balls from the passengers with special mechas. However, the passengers retaliated, led by Ash and {{ashfr}}, and they defeated the grunts and took back their Pokémon. Later, the ship sailed into a violent storm, was overcome by waves, and sank into the sea.

In ''[[EP063|The Battle of the Badge]]'', {{an|Giovanni}}, the boss of Team Rocket and the {{gy|Viridian}} [[Gym Leader]], temporarily left the trio in charge of the Viridian Gym. He even gave them some of his Pokémon. Jessie battled Ash, but refused to hand him an {{badge|Earth}} upon Ash's victory. When {{TP|Misty|Togepi}} set off an explosion by triggering Meowth's remote control, Team Rocket blasted off and Jessie dropped the Badge for Ash to retrieve.

In ''[[EP065|Showdown at the Po-ké Corral]]'', the trio arrived at [[Team Rocket HQ]], expecting Giovanni to fire them for their failures. They saw {{OBP|Mewtwo|M01}} destroy the headquarters and fly away just as they were about to turn away and quit first. When Giovanni told them to just do their job, they took it as a vote of confidence in them and continued to try and steal Pokémon.

In ''[[EP082|A Scare in the Air]]'', Giovanni assigned the trio to the "Blimp Brigade", where they crewed a rickety blimp that Giovanni only kept the insurance for. Damage caused by a storm as well as a battle with {{an|Brock}} caused the blimp to crash-land on [[Valencia Island]] in the [[Orange Archipelago|Orange Islands]]. After being repaired, the blimp crashed on [[Tangelo Island]] during its return trip in ''[[EP084|The Lost Lapras]]''. Afterwards, Team Rocket continued to follow Ash and Pikachu throughout the Orange Islands.

In ''[[EP175|The Trouble with Snubbull]]'', Team Rocket first tried using Meowth as bait for a newly-evolved {{TP|Madame Muchmoney|Granbull}}, which had been persistently following Meowth, so they could collect a reward from the Granbull's owner, [[Madame Muchmoney]]. This failed, and they subsequently used a Meowth-shaped mecha for their next attempt. Through a misunderstanding over Meowth trying to release Granbull from the mecha's tail, Team Rocket were mistakenly assumed to have tricked Madame Muchmoney. When Team Rocket was blasted off following a battle between the mecha and Granbull, Granbull returned home and no longer followed Meowth.

In ''[[EP231|Dues and Don'ts]]'', they discovered that their membership in Team Rocket had lapsed, although they were able to rejoin due to labor shortages, provided that they pay their debts.

In ''[[EP274|Hoenn Alone!]]'', Team Rocket followed Ash and Pikachu to the [[Hoenn]] [[region]] by stowing away on the stern of a boat.

=====''[[Pokémon the Series: Ruby and Sapphire]]''=====
The trio intervened in [[Pokémon poacher]] [[Rico]]'s plan to capture and sell a group of {{pkmn2|wild}} {{p|Ekans}} and {{p|Koffing}} in ''[[AG006|A Poached Ego!]]''. Jessie and James released {{TP|Jessie|Arbok}} and {{TP|James|Weezing}} and sent them off into [[Petalburg Woods]] to protect the Ekans and Koffing.

While suffering from amnesia, [[Ash's Pikachu]] temporarily joined the trio in ''[[AG089|A Scare to Remember!]]''.

In ''[[AG126|Saved by the Beldum]]'', they were selling snacks to League spectators for the [[Ever Grande Conference]].

During the [[Mulberry City]] [[Pokémon Contest]], [[Harley]] enlisted the trio's help in sabotaging {{an|May}}'s chances of winning her fifth [[Kanto]] [[Ribbon]]. Harley even leased his Pokémon to Jessie to aid his cause. {{Ash}}, however, foiled James and Meowth's attempts to ruin May's [[Appeal]]s performance during ''[[AG174|New Plot, Odd Lot]]''. While [[Drew]] disrupted their follow-up scheme in ''[[AG175|Going for Choke]]'', and discovered that Harley was aiding the Rocket trio. Following Jessie's Contest loss, Harley scolded the trio and refused their offer of joining Team Rocket before storming off.

After being blasted off once again, the trio exchanged insults and decided to go their separate ways in ''[[AG176|The Ole' Berate and Switch]]''. Jessie and James eventually found themselves at the site of [[Butch]] and [[Cassidy]]'s latest scheme, a one-day-only Pokémon Tournament in [[Sable City]]. Cassidy roped [[James]] into forming a trio with her and Butch, but Jessie soon paired up with Butch. {{MTR}} proved to be far more attached to Jessie and James, and used a biscuit to reflect on the group's close bond even in tough times. The trio reunited and returned to goal of capturing Ash's Pikachu.

=====''[[Pokémon the Series: Diamond and Pearl]]''=====
The trio re-encountered [[Butch]] and [[Cassidy]] in ''[[DP065|Sleight of Sand!]]''. The two Team Rocket groups quickly began to battle with their robots, and this eventually erupted into a [[Pokémon battle]]. The intense confrontation was interrupted after a {{OBP|Hippopotas|recurring}} whipped up a {{m|Sandstorm}} and sent both groups blasting off. The two groups subsequently vowed revenge the next time they met.

In ''[[DP080|The Thief That Keeps on Thieving!]]'', {{an|Giovanni}} did not even remember who they were.

Team Rocket attended the [[Pokémon Summer Academy]], with [[Jessie]] [[List of Team Rocket's disguises|disguised as Jessilinda]], while [[James]] and {{MTR}} posed as janitors from ''[[DP088|Camping it Up!]]'' to ''[[DP091|One Team, Two Team, Red Team, Blue Team!]]''.

In ''[[DP130|Frozen on Their Tracks!]]'', Team Rocket befriended [[Looker]] after sharing boxed lunches with him, coming to call him "Boxed-Lunch Guy" or "Mr. Lunchbox". Later in ''[[Pokémon the Series: Diamond and Pearl]]'', after discovering that Looker was a member of the [[International Police]], they assisted him in taking down [[Team Galactic]].

The trio set up their own [[Sinnoh Pokémon Hustle]] course in a bid to steal competitors' Pokémon and scout for new [[Team Rocket]] members in ''[[DP135|Beating the Bustle and Hustle!]]''.

In ''[[DP142|Where No Togepi Has Gone Before!]]'', Team Rocket had built a secret base with the money they earned during the [[Twinleaf Festival]]. While the trio managed to lure {{Ash}} and {{ashfr}} onto their base, which was actually a rocket, an evil {{p|Togepi}} also wandered in and ruined Team Rocket's plans. The rocket eventually crash-landed, leaving only debris.

In ''[[DP166|The Fleeing Tower of Sunyshore!]]'', Team Rocket managed to steal [[Sunyshore Tower]] as Ash and [[Volkner]] prepared to have their [[Gym]] battle. Though Ash and his newly [[Evolution|evolved]] {{AP|Torterra}} defeated Team Rocket, the Gym and Tower were significantly damaged in the process, and Ash's Gym battle was postponed.

=====''[[Pokémon the Series: Black & White]]''=====
[[File:Team Rocket BW 1.png|thumb|250px|The trio in their black uniforms]]
At [[Matori|his secretary]]'s recommendation, Giovanni promoted them as part of his plans in the [[Unova]] region. After their promotion, they changed from their original white uniforms to black uniforms. In ''[[Pokémon the Series: Black & White]]'', they acted in a more serious manner, focusing more on completing specific assignments, often using gadgets such as jetpacks to retreat instead of blasting off.

In ''[[BW023|Battling For The Love of Bug-Types!]]'', after Giovanni's secretary informed them that they wouldn't be needed for any more missions, they worried Giovanni had lost faith in them and returned to their white uniforms. They returned to planning their own schemes, although often in a more competent manner and with the assistance of [[Dr. Zager]]. They participated in Operation Tempest, [[Team Rocket]]'s mission to capture {{an|Meloetta}} and harness the power of the {{an|Forces of Nature}}.

Due to the failure of Operation Tempest, starting in ''[[BW109|New Places... Familiar Faces!]]'' they reverted to their traditional comedic personalities, using their {{DL|Team Rocket mottos|original motto}}, and travelling in their [[Team Rocket's mechas|Meowth balloon]] (with enhancements); however, their newfound competence was not completely lost, with the trio still occasionally retreating using jetpacks instead of blasting off.

After ''[[BW119|Meowth, Colress and Team Rivalry!]]'', the trio decided to head for the {{an|White Ruins}}, where they would spy on [[Team Plasma]]'s movements for a time while plotting to steal the [[Light Stone]]. However, when their friend [[Looker]] spotted them and asked for their help, the trio helped Ash and {{ashfr}} defeat the rival organization. After helping defeat Team Plasma in ''[[BW123|Farewell, Unova! Setting Sail for New Adventures!]]'', the trio returned completely to their previous role as comic relief, retaining only their upgraded technology and slight competence.

=====''[[Pokémon the Series: XY]]''=====
[[File:XY107.png|thumb|250px|The trio trying to stop Team Flare from taking Z2]]
In ''[[XY003|A Battle of Aerial Mobility!]]'', Giovanni approved the trio's plan to steal as many rare and powerful Pokémon as they could in the [[Kalos]] region.

Team Rocket targeted {{an|Professor Sycamore}}'s lab in [[Lumiose City]] on several occasions, often leaving the research facility damaged as a result. In ''[[XY002|Lumiose City Pursuit!]]'' and ''[[XY068|Garchomp's Mega Bond!]]'', they tried and failed to control Sycamore's {{p|Garchomp}}. In ''[[XY010|Mega-Mega Meowth Madness!]]'', they kidnapped Professor Sycamore for his [[Mega Evolution]] data to power their [[Team Rocket's mechas|Mega-Mega-Meowth Machine]].

The trio teamed up with a {{an|Florges}} and her Pokémon army in ''[[XY069|Defending the Homeland!]]'' and ''[[XY070|Beyond the Rainbow!]]''. Team Rocket was able to capture Pikachu, {{TP|Clemont|Dedenne}}, and {{an|Wooper}} with Florges's assistance while they also drained the healing waters of the {{rt|14|Kalos}} wetlands to make a profit. Florges's daughter {{p|Floette}}'s recovery was threatened by the dropping water levels, and Florges soon realized Team Rocket's true intentions. Florges paired up with her rival, [[Ash's Goodra]], to defeat the trio and recover the stolen water.

In ''[[XY107|An Explosive Operation!]]'', Giovanni assigned the trio to investigate [[Team Flare]]'s plans and to catch the {{p|Zygarde}} known as [[Squishy]] before Team Flare could do so. They ran into another Zygarde Core, nicknamed [[Z2]], that was on the run from Team Flare. The trio escaped with Z2 after [[Jessie's Gourgeist]] used {{m|Seed Bomb}} against some {{tc|Team Flare Grunt}}s, but they later lost in battle to them. Team Rocket tried taking the weakened Z2 when [[Mable]] was about to capture it, but [[Aliana]]'s {{p|Druddigon}} and Mable's {{p|Weavile}} made them blast off.

During the [[Lumiose Conference]], they assisted [[Malva]] with filming the conference whilst plotting to steal the competitors' Pokémon, only for Malva's tight schedule to disrupt their plans, leaving them unable to steal any Pokémon. During the Team Flare crisis, they continued filming and help assist by piloting the helicopter to help deal with the [[Giant Rock]]. They later edited the footage shot to show to Giovanni that they alone defeated Team Flare.

Following their adventures in Kalos, they returned to [[Team Rocket HQ]] in ''[[XY140|Till We Compete Again!]]''.

=====''[[Pokémon the Series: Sun & Moon]]''=====
[[File:Bewear rescuing Team Rocket.png|thumb|250px|left|Team Rocket and {{an|Bewear}}]]
Later, in ''[[SM003|Loading the Dex!]]'', the trio arrived in the [[Alola]] region to obtain some rare Alolan Pokémon for Giovanni, as well as Ash's Pikachu, which they were surprised to find on [[Melemele Island]]. They allied with a {{TP|Jessie|Mimikyu}} which hated Pikachu and later a wild {{an|Bewear}} kidnapped Jessie and James. In ''[[SM004|First Catch in Alola, Ketchum-Style!]]'', the Bewear looked after the trio, giving them food and shelter at [[Bewear's den|its den]].

They completed their new base in Bewear's den during ''[[SM018|A Seasoned Search!]]'' despite disruptions caused by {{AP|Rowlet}} and {{TP|Lana|Popplio}} crashing into their antenna during ''[[SM016|They Might Not Be Giants!]]''.

They are often seen on Melemele Island in disguise as part-timers at a [[malasada]] shop, mostly as food truck attendants. In ''[[SM045|Now You See Them, Now You Don't!]]'', Team Rocket took notice of a {{p|Cosmog}} that was accompanying Ash while the trio was selling malasadas near the [[Pokémon School]]. James wrongly guessed that the Cosmog, [[Nebby]], was a pre-evolved {{p|Koffing}}, and Team Rocket tried and failed to capture it. In ''[[SM046|Deceiving Appearances!]]'' it was revealed they were scouted by [[Faba]] to work at the [[Aether Foundation]] as his assistants, but quit in ''[[SM049|Mission: Total Recall!]]'' after discovering his intent to use his {{p|Hypno}}'s {{m|Hypnosis}} to tamper with {{an|Lillie}}'s memory, finding such underhanded evil below them. They eventually abandoned chasing after Nebby after James was proven wrong about it being the pre-evolved form of Koffing in ''[[SM052|Revealing the Stuff of Legend!]]''.

One of Team Rocket's goals in Alola has been to harness the power of [[Z-Move]]s for themselves. In ''[[SM025|A Team-on-Team Tussle!]]'', they obtained a [[Darkinium Z]], which some {{tc|Team Skull Grunt}}s also tried to obtain from a nest of {{rf|Alolan}} {{p|Rattata}} and {{p|Raticate}}, led by a {{pkmn2|Totem}} Raticate. The same [[Z-Crystal]] reappeared in ''[[SM062|Acting True to Form!]]'', where Jessie and James believed that they could use it with the Alolan {{p|Meowth}} they had just met. However, they were dismayed upon being informed that they would also need a [[Z-Ring]] to do so.
[[File:Team Rocket and Z-Power Ring.png|thumb|250px|Team Rocket and their Z-Power Ring]]
In ''[[SM073|Why Not Give Me a Z-Ring Sometime?]]'', at the advice of Giovanni, they traveled to [[Ula'ula Island]] to get a Z-Ring from [[Nanu]]. There, their Darkinium Z was stolen by the "Greedy Rapooh", a {{p|Gengar}} they had accidentally unsealed. After taking back their Z-Crystal, Nanu gave them a [[Z-Power Ring]] so [[James's Mareanie]] could use {{m|Black Hole Eclipse}}, rescuing [[Acerola]] in the process. The trio was allowed to keep the ring as a token of appreciation, and Jessie received a [[Mimikium Z]] for her Mimikyu from Acerola's Mimikyu, nicknamed Mimikins.

The Rocket trio were called back to HQ in ''[[SM146|Thank You, Alola! The Journey Continues!]]''. They {{pkmn2|released}} Mimikyu and Mareanie, also leaving their Z-Ring behind, in the care of Bewear and {{an|Stufful}}.

=====''[[Pokémon Journeys: The Series]]''=====
[[File:JN145.png|thumb|250px|left|Team Rocket with all of their current Pokémon]]
Team Rocket returned to the Kanto region, setting up an underground base in [[Vermilion City]] while they plot to steal Pikachu. They have been using disguises; a [[Rotom Phone]] that they received in ''[[JN012|Flash of the Titans!]]''; and the [[Rocket Prize Master]], a Pokémon vending machine, to assist their evil operations.

In ''[[JN013|The Climb to Be the Very Best!]]'', they successfully captured a {{p|Chewtle}} while in [[Wyndon]]. Chewtle was added to the Rocket Prize Master, where its powerful {{m|Water Gun}} proved to be difficult to defeat in ''[[JN017|Kicking It from Here Into Tomorrow!]]''.

In ''[[JN019|A Talent for Imitation!]]'', the trio recruited a {{p|Ditto}} as a new member of Team Rocket. Ditto was struggling to be a movie star because its nervousness was affecting its ability to use {{m|Transform}}. Jessie and the others encouraged Ditto, and it eventually learned to Transform perfectly. While Ditto assisted them in capturing Pikachu, Jessie realized Ditto was destined for stardom and allowed it to leave to fulfill its dreams.

In ''[[JN024|A Little Rocket R & R!]]'', the trio was ordered to go on vacation to the [[Resort Area]] in [[Sinnoh]]. However, the reward was a ploy by [[Matori]] and her agents, who planned to steal many Pokémon from the Resort Area. After overhearing her insulting them, the trio decided to get their revenge by helping Ash and [[Goh]] free the Pokémon. The subsequent battle quickly turned against Matori and her unit, and when [[Officer Jenny]] arrived, they retreated.
[[File:Team Rocket split.png|thumb|250px|Team Rocket splitting up]]
The trio was sent to the [[Galar]] [[Energy Plant]] by Giovanni to steal the most evil Pokémon, {{p|Eternatus}}. In ''[[JN043|Sword and Shield: The Darkest Day!]]'' and ''[[JN044|Sword and Shield: "From Here to Eternatus!"]]'', they posed as {{tc|Worker}}s while they bided their time. However, they came under threat when Meowth was [[Gigantamax]]ed by Eternatus's powerful energy and later failed when they were sent blasting off by Eternatus in ''[[JN045|Sword and Shield... The Legends Awaken!]]''.

In ''[[JN145|Rocket Revengers!]]'', the trio reunited with their Pokémon that had been residing at {{an|Team Rocket HQ}}. Realizing the potential of such a large group, the team hatched a scheme to isolate Ash's Pikachu and capture him. They waited at the end of the trap, where they ambushed an isolated Pikachu. Despite their efforts, however, Pikachu was able to evade capture, and a wild {{an|Latias}} that had been following Ash intervened and sent the evil group blasting off. Upset over the failure, the trio decided it was time to go their separate ways.

In ''[[JN146|Ash and Latios]]'', the trio individually returned to the Team Rocket HQ, each vowing to become a legend on their own. In ''[[JN147|The Rainbow and the Pokémon Master!]]'', after finding themselves stuck with cafeteria duty, they ultimately ended up deciding to reunite and resume their efforts to capture Pikachu.

====Characters====
[[File:Blast off.png|thumb|250px|left|The Team Rocket trio blasting off again]]
Since making their debut in the [[EP002|second episode of the anime]], the Team Rocket trio has appeared in almost every single episode until the start of ''[[Pokémon the Series: Black & White]]'', after which they appeared less frequently. As such, they are the most prominent representation of [[Team Rocket]] as a whole in the anime. Prior to ''[[BW016|Rematch at the Nacrene Gym!]]'', the [[EP001|very first episode]] was the only single regular episode (excluding the clip show [[AG120]]) in which Team Rocket was completely absent.

In most of their appearances, they attempt to capture {{Ash}}'s {{AP|Pikachu}}, or any other Pokémon to give to Team Rocket's boss, {{an|Giovanni}}. However, they usually get defeated and are {{DL|Team Rocket mottos|Blasting off|blasted off}} with their iconic catchphrase, "Looks like Team Rocket's blasting off again!", or variants such as "Team Rocket's blasting off again!" or "We're blasting off again!" In ''[[Pokémon the Series: Sun & Moon]]'', a {{an|Bewear}} whisks them away as they say their catchphrase "We're off with a new blast!", either following a defeat or when Bewear interrupts a battle. Typically, right after making a capture, they will recite their {{motto}}, although on some rare occasions, they are unable to finish. This has been parodied by protagonists and even other Team Rocket members, such as [[Butch]] and [[Cassidy]].

Since witnessing his power, the trio has been obsessed with capturing Ash's Pikachu, relentlessly pursuing Ash and [[Ash's friends|his many friends]] across the various regions of the [[Pokémon world]] to do so. Although they often succeed in capturing Pikachu, they have never managed to hold on to him for longer than a day. They frequently develop or purchase various kinds of shockproof gadgets and machinery ({{TP|Team Rocket|mechas}}, rubber suits, etc.) to aid in his capture, but these gadgets are often circumvented by non-Electric attacks and abilities (for which the trio constantly forgets to account) or simply backfire.

[[File:Looker and Team Rocket.png|thumb|250px|Team Rocket and Looker]]
Even though they usually only cause trouble for the main characters, they have sometimes helped them. When they have a common enemy, they will often ally with Ash and his friends, as shown in ''[[M02|The Power of One]]'' and later against [[Team Aqua]] and [[Team Magma]]. They also played a key part in the fight against [[Team Galactic]], teaming up with [[Looker]]. They occasionally put their differences aside for personal reasons, only to later return to their thieving ways. One of the more common moments of truce is during [[Pokémon Contest]]s, which Jessie had a fondness for participating in under various aliases. In ''[[JN143|Ride, Lapras, Ride!]]'', they helped Ash to remove a [[Wailord]] that was stuck, albeit because Pikachu forced them to.

On several occasions, Jessie, James, and Meowth have shown that they are not all evil and have even displayed a degree of affection for Ash and his friends. For instance, the trio heroically sacrificed themselves to what they thought was certain death in ''[[M02|The Power of One]]'' in order to allow Ash's escape on Lugia, and also saved him from a fall in the next movie, ''[[M03|Spell of the Unown: Entei]]''. Their justification was that in the case of the world being destroyed or Ash's death, they would be [[Breaking the fourth wall|out of show business]], but it is implied that this is just bluster to cover the fact that they are not truly bad people.

The trio has also taken pity on the protagonists' struggles at various points in the series, sometimes going as far as to devise schemes just to help the heroes overcome their issues. One such example occurs in ''[[EP134|Charizard's Burning Ambitions]]'', where Team Rocket kept [[Ash's Charizard]] awake as it lay in the lake, and then built a huge mecha and attacked the [[Charicific Valley]] for the sole purpose of allowing Charizard to defeat them and gain acceptance in the valley. In ''[[SM049|Mission: Total Recall!]]'', when [[Faba]] asked them to help him drain memories from {{an|Lillie}}, they blatantly refused, citing their belief that all memories, good or bad, should be preserved at any cost. They, or more specifically Meowth, made a similar rationale for telling Mewtwo not to go through with erasing their memories in ''[[Mewtwo Returns]]'', and implied part of the reason he was against it was because the clones themselves would have been negatively affected by lack of answers to their past. They had a particular fondness for [[Ash's Infernape]] throughout ''[[Pokémon the Series: Diamond and Pearl]]'', frequently rooting for and encouraging him after witnessing his abusive treatment under [[Paul]] as a {{p|Chimchar}}.

They rarely refer to Giovanni by name, usually just calling him "the boss". They also rarely call Ash or his friends by their names, instead preferring to refer to them as "the [[twerp]]s" or some variation thereof.

The Team Rocket trio generally have a poor battling record, getting defeated by Ash and his friends in almost every encounter. This poor battling record has occurred often enough that it even was mentioned by some of the characters, with Misty also [[EP056|implying]] [[EP134|twice]] that beating Team Rocket in matches was not something worth bragging about regarding skill.

====Artwork====
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|-
| style="{{roundy|20px}} border: 2px solid #C00; background: #CCC; width:auto" | [[File:Team Rocket trio OS.png|200px]]
| style="{{roundy|20px}} border: 2px solid #C00; background: #CCC; width:auto" | [[File:Team Rocket Trio AG.png|200px]]
| style="{{roundy|20px}} border: 2px solid #C00; background: #CCC; width:auto" | [[File:Team Rocket trio DP 2.png|200px]]
| style="{{roundy|20px}} border: 2px solid #C00; background: #CCC; width:auto" | [[File:Team Rocket trio BW.png|160px]]
| style="{{roundy|20px}} border: 2px solid #C00; background: #CCC; width:auto" | [[File:Team Rocket trio XY 2.png|150px]]
|- style="color:#fff;"
| Official artwork from the {{color2|fff|original series}}
| Official artwork from ''{{color2|fff|Pokémon the Series: Ruby and Sapphire}}''
| Official artwork from ''{{color2|fff|Pokémon the Series: Diamond and Pearl}}''
| Official artwork from ''{{color2|fff|Pokémon the Series: Black & White}}''
| Official artwork from ''{{color2|fff|Pokémon the Series: XY}}''
|-
| colspan=5 style="{{roundy|15px}} border: 2px solid #C00; background: #CCC; width:200px" | For more artwork, please see [[a:Category:Jessie|Jessie]], [[a:Category:James|James]], [[a:Category:Meowth (Team Rocket)|Meowth]] images on the Bulbagarden Archives.
|}

===I Choose You!, The Power of Us, Secrets of the Jungle, and Distant Blue Sky!===
{{incomplete|section|2=Expansion of role in M23, and JNS05}}

[[File:Team Rocket trio M20.png|thumb|left|250px|The trio in ''[[M20|I Choose You!]]'']]
The Team Rocket trio appeared in ''[[M20|I Choose You!]]'', which is set in a different continuity from the main series. They first appeared in disguise in a Pokémon Center, and were wanted for stealing Pokémon. When a Pokémon Trainer who had just battled an {{p|Entei}} hurried inside the Center, Team Rocket eavesdropped on the conversation and decided to hunt for Entei themselves. While looking for Entei in the forest, they were blasted off by a raging {{p|Onix}}.

Once they heard that {{OBP|Ash Ketchum|M20|Ash}} and his friends were heading to [[Mount Tensei]] to meet {{an|Ho-Oh}}, they decided to follow them, hoping to catch the Legendary Pokémon. They eventually came across a pack of sleeping {{p|Primeape}}. They saw it as an opportunity to catch some, but the Primeape woke up and started tossing them in the air, blasting them off once again.

Later on in the movie, the trio nearly caught up to the gang as they headed closer towards Mount Tensei. They were seen climbing Mount Tensei, tired and hungry. They eventually see Ho-Oh and stare on in amazement. Meowth became excited to the point where he accidentally let go and fell on James and Jessie, causing all three of them to fall off the mountain.

They appeared once more in the film's ending credits, following Ash and {{OBP|Ash's Pikachu|M20|Pikachu}} in their Meowth Balloon. During that time, Wobbuffet was revealed to have somehow been added to their team.

[[File:Team Rocket trio M21.png|thumb|250px|The trio in ''[[M21|The Power of Us]]'']]
In ''[[M21|The Power of Us]]'', the trio watched Ash's {{pkmn|battle}} against [[Townes, Hoyt, and Miles|Hoyt]]. They were impressed by Pikachu's performance, but Jessie then became inspired by the boys' lemonade stand and decided that she wanted to run her own juice stall. Team Rocket soon sets up a [[Lum Berry]] Juice store to make money during the [[Wind Festival]].

Later, the trio infiltrated the Research Pavilion at night, but were forced to flee after Wobbuffet burst out of its {{i|Poké Ball}} unannounced. Team Rocket visited the lab again, and while they were ambushed by [[Harriet]], they managed to steal [[Toren]]'s {{a|Effect Spore}} solution. Ash chased after them, but Wobbuffet's {{m|Mirror Coat}} allowed them to escape. At night, the trio sat down to examine their stolen loot when they realized they dropped it somewhere.

The following day, the Effect Spore solution was revealed to have cracked open and released a toxic gas that caused a fire, forcing the evacuation of [[Fula City]]. Team Rocket, [[List of Team Rocket's disguises|disguised in their Berry stall outfits]], sought refuge in the Research Pavilion. After Toren's {{a|Natural Cure}} elixir was lost, he noticed the trio's large supply of Lum Berries and went on to make a substitute remedy, which later cleared the air of the Effect Spore.



==In the core series games==
In {{game|Yellow}}, Jessie and James appear and are involved in Team Rocket's four major schemes ([[Mt. Moon]], [[Team Rocket Hideout|Rocket Hideout]], [[Pokémon Tower]], and [[Silph Co.]]), and typically appear before the player battles [[Giovanni]]. They also replace the three Team Rocket members in the [[Pokémon Tower]] that hold [[Mr. Fuji]] hostage as well as two other {{tc|Team Rocket Grunt}}s: one close to the exit of [[Mt. Moon]] and the other one near the entrance to the President's room at [[Silph Co.]] Curiously, they are never referred to by their individual names and share their Trainer class with all other Team Rocket Grunts.

They first attack the {{player}} in Mt. Moon, while trying to take one of the rare [[Fossil]]s uncovered there. Later, in [[Celadon City]]'s [[Team Rocket Hideout|Rocket Hideout]], Jessie and James guard Giovanni's room. During that time, as the player runs into them, they are eager for revenge after the main character busted up their plans at Mt. Moon. Afterwards, they hold Mr. Fuji hostage at [[Pokémon Tower]], attacking the player on the seventh floor. Finally, at [[Silph Co.]] in [[Saffron City]], Jessie and James make their final appearance, once again trying to stall the main character from reaching [[Giovanni|their Boss]].

Unlike in the anime, Jessie and James do not follow the main character around and come up with their usual evil plans to capture {{OBP|Pikachu|Yellow}}. In addition, {{MTR}} cannot talk, and he resides in a [[Poké Ball]] instead of traveling around with Jessie and James. In addition, they also receive their own encounter music, a track not heard in Red and Blue.

The trio returns again in {{LGPE}}, [[remake]]s of Yellow. Unlike Yellow, Meowth follows them outside of a Poké Ball like in the anime, but like Yellow, he is unable to speak. The player engages them in [[Double Battle]]s in all of their encounters. They are now referred to by name and play a more significant role in the story than they did in Yellow.

They first appear in [[Viridian City]], replacing the old man as the roadblock to prevent the player from progressing before delivering Oak's parcel. They later properly introduce themselves in Mt. Moon, just as they did in Yellow, and have a Double Battle with the player. They are next encountered in Lavender Town, where they are implied to have killed Cubone's mother. The player then witnesses them kidnapping the orphan Cubone and taking it back to Celadon City. The player then encounters them in the Game Corner, where they accidentally mention the poster that conceals the switch to access the Team Rocket Hideout. The player later battles them in the hideout, just as they did in Yellow. After returning to Lavender Town and rescuing Mr. Fuji, the player has to battle them again like they did in Yellow.

The trio makes their next appearance outside of Fuchsia City, expressing their frustration with the slight complexity of the [[GO Park]]. They then give the player the safari warden's false teeth before leaving. The player next encounters them in Saffron City, where a Rocket Grunt tries to keep them out of Silph Co., causing them to force their way in. The player must later battle them inside the Silph Co. like in Yellow.

They make one more appearance on Route 17 after the player enters the Hall of Fame. They lament the disappearance of Giovanni, then challenge the player to a battle after noticing them. After the player wins, the trio will ask if they would like to join Team Rocket. Regardless of what the player responds, they will give the player the "Blast-off set" of clothing, which differs slightly depending on the player's gender to resemble either Jessie's uniform and hair or James's. After this, the trio bids farewell to the player and leaves.

===Pokémon===
===={{game|Yellow}}====
=====First battle=====
{{Party/Single
|color=666
|bordercolor=C00
|headcolor=CCC
|sprite=Spr Y Jessie James.png
|prize={{Pdollar}}420
|name={{tccolor|Team Rocket Grunt|000|Rocket}}
|game=Y
|location=Mt. Moon
|pokemon=3
}}
|{{Pokémon/1
|game=Yellow
|ndex=023
|pokemon=Ekans
|level=14
|type1=Poison
|move1=Wrap|move1type=Normal
|move2=Leer|move2type=Normal
|move3=Poison Sting|move3type=Poison}}
|{{Pokémon/1
|game=Yellow
|ndex=052
|pokemon=Meowth
|level=14
|type1=Normal
|move1=Scratch|move1type=Normal
|move2=Growl|move2type=Normal
|move3=Bite|move3type=Normal}}
|{{Pokémon/1
|game=Yellow
|ndex=109
|pokemon=Koffing
|level=14
|type1=Poison
|move1=Tackle|move1type=Normal
|move2=Smog|move2type=Poison}}
{{Party/Footer}}

=====Second battle=====
{{Party/Single
|color=666
|bordercolor=C00
|headcolor=CCC
|sprite=Spr Y Jessie James.png
|prize={{Pdollar}}750
|name={{tccolor|Team Rocket Grunt|000|Rocket}}
|game=Y
|location=Team Rocket Hideout
|locationname=Rocket Hideout
|pokemon=3
}}
|{{Pokémon/1
|game=Yellow
|ndex=109
|pokemon=Koffing
|level=25
|type1=Poison
|move1=Tackle|move1type=Normal
|move2=Smog|move2type=Poison}}
|{{Pokémon/1
|game=Yellow
|ndex=052
|pokemon=Meowth
|level=25
|type1=Normal
|move1=Growl|move1type=Normal
|move2=Bite|move2type=Normal
|move3=Pay Day|move3type=Normal
|move4=Screech|move4type=Normal}}
|{{Pokémon/1
|game=Yellow
|ndex=023
|pokemon=Ekans
|level=25
|type1=Poison
|move1=Leer|move1type=Normal
|move2=Poison Sting|move2type=Poison
|move3=Bite|move3type=Normal
|move4=Glare|move4type=Normal}}
{{Party/Footer}}

=====Third battle=====
{{Party/Single
|color=666
|bordercolor=C00
|headcolor=CCC
|sprite=Spr Y Jessie James.png
|prize={{Pdollar}}810
|name={{tccolor|Team Rocket Grunt|000|Rocket}}
|game=Y
|location=Pokémon Tower
|pokemon=3
}}
|{{Pokémon/1
|game=Yellow
|ndex=052
|pokemon=Meowth
|level=27
|type1=Normal
|move1=Growl|move1type=Normal
|move2=Bite|move2type=Normal
|move3=Pay Day|move3type=Normal
|move4=Screech|move4type=Normal}}
|{{Pokémon/1
|game=Yellow
|ndex=024
|pokemon=Arbok
|level=27
|type1=Poison
|move1=Leer|move1type=Normal
|move2=Poison Sting|move2type=Poison
|move3=Bite|move3type=Normal
|move4=Glare|move4type=Normal}}
|{{Pokémon/1
|game=Yellow
|ndex=110
|pokemon=Weezing
|level=27
|type1=Poison
|move1=Tackle|move1type=Normal
|move2=Smog|move2type=Poison
|move3=Sludge|move3type=Poison}}
{{Party/Footer}}

=====Fourth battle=====
{{Party/Single
|color=666
|bordercolor=C00
|headcolor=CCC
|sprite=Spr Y Jessie James.png
|prize={{Pdollar}}930
|name={{tccolor|Team Rocket Grunt|000|Rocket}}
|game=Y
|location=Silph Co.
|pokemon=3
}}
|{{Pokémon/1
|game=Yellow
|ndex=110
|pokemon=Weezing
|level=31
|type1=Poison
|move1=Tackle|move1type=Normal
|move2=Smog|move2type=Poison
|move3=Sludge|move3type=Poison}}
|{{Pokémon/1
|game=Yellow
|ndex=024
|pokemon=Arbok
|level=31
|type1=Poison
|move1=Leer|move1type=Normal
|move2=Poison Sting|move2type=Poison
|move3=Bite|move3type=Normal
|move4=Glare|move4type=Normal}}
|{{Pokémon/1
|game=Yellow
|ndex=052
|pokemon=Meowth
|level=31
|type1=Normal
|move1=Growl|move1type=Normal
|move2=Bite|move2type=Normal
|move3=Pay Day|move3type=Normal
|move4=Screech|move4type=Normal}}
{{Party/Footer}}

====[[Pokémon: Let's Go, Pikachu! and Let's Go, Eevee!]]====
=====First battle=====
{{Party/Tag
|color=666
|bordercolor=C00
|headcolor=CCC
|color1=EE8BCD
|headcolor1=F5BCE2
|bordercolor1=E44EB2
|color2=8BB2FF
|headcolor2=CCDDFF
|bordercolor2=4D88FF
|class=Team Rocket
|classlink=Team Rocket
|sprite=VSJessie PE.png
|size=90px
|class2=Team Rocket
|classlink2=Team Rocket
|sprite2=VSJames PE.png
|size2=90px
|prize={{Pdollar}}1,152
|name={{color2|000|Jessie}}
|name2={{color2|000|James}}
|game=LGPE
|location=Mt. Moon
|pokemon1=1
|pokemon2=1
}}
| style="margin:auto" |{{Pokémon/7/LG
|ndex=023
|pokemon=Ekans
|gender=male
|level=12
|type1=Poison
|move1=Wrap|move1type=Normal|move1cat=Physical
|move2=Acid|move2type=Poison|move2cat=Special}}
{{Party/Div|color=8BB2FF}}
| style="margin:auto" |{{Pokémon/7/LG
|ndex=109
|pokemon=Koffing
|gender=male
|level=12
|type1=Poison
|move1=Poison Gas|move1type=Poison|move1cat=Status
|move2=Tackle|move2type=Normal|move2cat=Physical}}
{{Party/Footer}}

=====Second battle=====
{{Party/Tag
|color=666
|bordercolor=C00
|headcolor=CCC
|color1=EE8BCD
|headcolor1=F5BCE2
|bordercolor1=E44EB2
|color2=8BB2FF
|headcolor2=CCDDFF
|bordercolor2=4D88FF
|class=Team Rocket
|classlink=Team Rocket
|sprite=VSJessie PE.png
|size=90px
|class2=Team Rocket
|classlink2=Team Rocket
|sprite2=VSJames PE.png
|size2=90px
|prize={{Pdollar}}3,072
|name={{color2|000|Jessie}}
|name2={{color2|000|James}}
|game=LGPE
|location=Team Rocket Hideout
|pokemon1=1
|pokemon2=1
}}
| style="margin:auto" |{{Pokémon/7/LG
|ndex=024
|pokemon=Arbok
|gender=male
|level=32
|type1=Poison
|move1=Poison Jab|move1type=Poison|move1cat=Physical
|move2=Glare|move2type=Normal|move2cat=Status
|move3=Crunch|move3type=Dark|move3cat=Physical}}
{{Party/Div|color=8BB2FF}}
| style="margin:auto" |{{Pokémon/7/LG
|ndex=110
|pokemon=Weezing
|gender=male
|level=32
|type1=Poison
|move1=Toxic|move1type=Poison|move1cat=Status
|move2=Sludge|move2type=Poison|move2cat=Special}}
{{Party/Footer}}

=====Third battle=====
{{Party/Tag
|color=666
|bordercolor=C00
|headcolor=CCC
|color1=EE8BCD
|headcolor1=F5BCE2
|bordercolor1=E44EB2
|color2=8BB2FF
|headcolor2=CCDDFF
|bordercolor2=4D88FF
|class=Team Rocket
|classlink=Team Rocket
|sprite=VSJessie PE.png
|size=90px
|class2=Team Rocket
|classlink2=Team Rocket
|sprite2=VSJames PE.png
|size2=90px
|prize={{Pdollar}}3,264
|name={{color2|000|Jessie}}
|name2={{color2|000|James}}
|game=LGPE
|location=Pokémon Tower
|pokemon1=1
|pokemon2=1
}}
| style="margin:auto" |{{Pokémon/7/LG
|ndex=024
|pokemon=Arbok
|gender=male
|level=34
|type1=Poison
|move1=Poison Jab|move1type=Poison|move1cat=Physical
|move2=Glare|move2type=Normal|move2cat=Status
|move3=Crunch|move3type=Dark|move3cat=Physical}}
{{Party/Div|color=8BB2FF}}
| style="margin:auto" |{{Pokémon/7/LG
|ndex=110
|pokemon=Weezing
|gender=male
|level=34
|type1=Poison
|move1=Dark Pulse|move1type=Dark|move1cat=Special
|move2=Sludge Bomb|move2type=Poison|move2cat=Special}}
{{Party/Footer}}

=====Fourth battle=====
{{Party/Tag
|color=666
|bordercolor=C00
|headcolor=CCC
|color1=EE8BCD
|headcolor1=F5BCE2
|bordercolor1=E44EB2
|color2=8BB2FF
|headcolor2=CCDDFF
|bordercolor2=4D88FF
|class=Team Rocket
|classlink=Team Rocket
|sprite=VSJessie PE.png
|size=90px
|class2=Team Rocket
|classlink2=Team Rocket
|sprite2=VSJames PE.png
|size2=90px
|prize={{Pdollar}}3,456
|name={{color2|000|Jessie}}
|name2={{color2|000|James}}
|game=LGPE
|location=Silph Co.
|pokemon1=1
|pokemon2=1
}}
| style="margin:auto" |{{Pokémon/7/LG
|ndex=024
|pokemon=Arbok
|gender=male
|level=36
|type1=Poison
|move1=Poison Jab|move1type=Poison|move1cat=Physical
|move2=Glare|move2type=Normal|move2cat=Status
|move3=Crunch|move3type=Dark|move3cat=Physical
|move4=Rock Slide|move4type=Rock|move4cat=Physical}}
{{Party/Div|color=8BB2FF}}
| style="margin:auto" |{{Pokémon/7/LG
|ndex=110
|pokemon=Weezing
|gender=male
|level=36
|type1=Poison
|move1=Sludge Bomb|move1type=Poison|move1cat=Special
|move2=Dark Pulse|move2type=Dark|move2cat=Special
|move3=Flamethrower|move3type=Fire|move3cat=Special
|move4=Thunderbolt|move4type=Electric|move4cat=Special}}
{{Party/Footer}}

=====Fifth battle=====
{{Party/Tag
|color=666
|bordercolor=C00
|headcolor=CCC
|color1=EE8BCD
|headcolor1=F5BCE2
|bordercolor1=E44EB2
|color2=8BB2FF
|headcolor2=CCDDFF
|bordercolor2=4D88FF
|class=Team Rocket
|classlink=Team Rocket
|sprite=VSJessie PE.png
|size=90px
|class2=Team Rocket
|classlink2=Team Rocket
|sprite2=VSJames PE.png
|size2=90px
|prize={{Pdollar}}4,992
|name={{color2|000|Jessie}}
|name2={{color2|000|James}}
|game=LGPE
|location=Kanto Route 17
|locationname=Route 17
|pokemon1=1
|pokemon2=1
}}
| style="margin:auto" |{{Pokémon/7/LG
|ndex=024
|pokemon=Arbok
|gender=male
|level=52
|type1=Poison
|move1=Poison Jab|move1type=Poison|move1cat=Physical
|move2=Glare|move2type=Normal|move2cat=Status
|move3=Crunch|move3type=Dark|move3cat=Physical
|move4=Rock Slide|move4type=Rock|move4cat=Physical}}
{{Party/Div|color=8BB2FF}}
| style="margin:auto" |{{Pokémon/7/LG
|ndex=110
|pokemon=Weezing
|gender=male
|level=52
|type1=Poison
|move1=Sludge Bomb|move1type=Poison|move1cat=Special
|move2=Dark Pulse|move2type=Dark|move2cat=Special
|move3=Flamethrower|move3type=Fire|move3cat=Special
|move4=Thunderbolt|move4type=Electric|move4cat=Special}}
{{Party/Footer}}

===Sprites===
{{incomplete|section|Missing overworld models from LGPE; need higher quality images from LGPE}}
{| style="font-size: 80%; margin:auto; text-align:center; {{roundy|20px}} border: 2px solid #C00; background: #666; color:#fff;"
|-
| colspan=2 style="{{roundy|80px}} border: 2px solid #C00; background: #CCC; width:80px"| [[File:Spr Y Jessie James.png]]
| style="{{roundy|80px}} border: 2px solid #C00; background: #CCC; width:80px"| [[File:VSJames PE.png|100px]]
| style="{{roundy|80px}} border: 2px solid #C00; background: #CCC; width:80px"| [[File:VSJessie PE.png|100px]]
|-
| colspan=2 | {{color2|fff|Jessie}} and {{color2|fff|James}}'s sprite from {{color2|fff|Pokémon Yellow Version|Yellow}}
| {{color2|fff|James}}'s VS model from {{color2|fff|Pokémon: Let's Go, Pikachu! and Let's Go, Eevee!|Let's Go, Pikachu! and Let's Go, Eevee!}}
| {{color2|fff|Jessie}}'s VS model from {{color2|fff|Pokémon: Let's Go, Pikachu! and Let's Go, Eevee!|Let's Go, Pikachu! and Let's Go, Eevee!}}
|-
|style="{{roundy|80px}} border: 2px solid #C00; background: #CCC; width:80px"| [[File:James OD.png]]
|style="{{roundy|80px}} border: 2px solid #C00; background: #CCC; width:80px"| [[File:Jessie OD.png]]
|
|
|-
| {{color2|fff|James}}'s overworld sprite from {{color2|fff|Pokémon Yellow Version|Yellow}}
| {{color2|fff|Jessie}}'s overworld sprite from {{color2|fff|Pokémon Yellow Version|Yellow}}
|
|
|}

==In the spin-off games==
===[[Pokémon Puzzle League]]===
[[File:Pokémon Puzzle League Spa Service Intro.png|thumb|200px|Team Rocket in Pokémon Puzzle League]]
Along with many other anime characters, Jessie, James, and Meowth appeared in Pokémon Puzzle League, where they appeared with a {{TP|James|Weezing}}, an {{TP|Jessie|Arbok}}, and a {{p|Golbat}}. They are the main opponents in the "Spa Service" line clear challenge.
{{-}}

===[[Pokémon Masters EX]]===
{{main|Jessie (Masters)}}
{{main|James (Masters)}}
Jessie, James, and {{MTR}} from the alternate {{pkmn|movie}} continuity, appeared in the [[special event]]s {{DL|Special event|Double Trouble}} and {{DL|Special event|Blasting Off Again}}, which are tied in with the {{pkmn|anime}} and ''[[M23|Secrets of the Jungle]]''. The player could add Jessie as a playable [[sync pair]] with her original partner, {{TP|Jessie|Arbok}}, and add James as a playable sync pair with his original partner, {{TP|James|Weezing}}, by playing through each event respectively.

Unlike most characters in Pokémon Masters EX, the trio's appearances are based directly on their anime incarnations, and retain their Japanese and English voice actors.

{{PairDex/h|Red|Dark}}
{{PairDex|097|Jessie|trainerlink=Jessie (Masters)#Arbok|trainerimg=Jessie|0024|Arbok|gender=male|pokemonlink=Jessie's Arbok|Poison|Ground|Special Strike|3|Event ''Double Trouble''}}
{{PairDex|104|James|trainerlink=James (Masters)#Weezing|trainerimg=James|0110|Weezing|gender=male|pokemonlink=James's Weezing|Poison|Psychic|Tech|3|Event ''Blasting Off Again''}}
|}

===[[Pokémon Zany Cards]]===
[[File:Zany Cards Jessie James.png|thumb|200px|Jessie in Pokémon Zany Cards]]
Jessie and James are the first opponents in both Wild Match mode and Special Seven mode.
{{-}}

===[[Pokémon GO]]===
Jessie and James were added as members of [[Team GO Rocket]] as part of a tie-in event with the {{pkmn|anime}} and the [[M23|twenty-third movie]]. From July 7 to September 30, 2020, they can be encountered if a Meowth balloon appears in the overworld and will battle the player consecutively. They each use a team of three {{OBP|Shadow Pokémon|GO}} in a {{OBP|Trainer Battle|GO}}. {{highlight|Green-colored cells|{{green color light}}}} denote the Pokémon that may be encountered during the bonus challenge. The Shadow Pokémon they leave behind also has a chance of becoming [[Shiny Pokémon (GO)|Shiny]], as indicated by the {{shinystar/GO}} icon.

In conjunction with their second appearance on December 14, 2020, Jessie and James also act as the guides for ''{{DL|Special Research|Distracted by Something Shiny}}''.

====December 14, 2020 - February 28, 2021; October 1 - 15, 2021====
{{go-lineup
|color=c00|bordercolor=666|headcolor=CCC
|title=<big>{{color2|000|Jessie#Pokémon GO|Jessie}}</big> {{color2|000|Team GO Rocket}}
|sprite=VSJessie GO.png
|pokemon1={{MSP/GO|shadow=yes|123|Scyther|size=80|shiny=yes}}
|pokemon2={{MSP/GO|shadow=yes|023|Ekans|size=80}}
|pokemon3={{MSP/GO|shadow=yes|234|Stantler|size=80}}
|catch1=yes
}}
{{go-lineup
|color=c00|bordercolor=666|headcolor=CCC
|title=<big>{{color2|000|James#Pokémon GO|James}}</big> {{color2|000|Team GO Rocket}}
|sprite=VSJames GO.png
|pokemon1={{MSP/GO|shadow=yes|127|Pinsir|size=80|shiny=yes}}
|pokemon2={{MSP/GO|shadow=yes|109|Koffing|size=80}}
|pokemon3={{MSP/GO|shadow=yes|088|Grimer|size=80}}
|catch1=yes
}}

==== July 7 - September 30, 2020 ====
{{go-lineup
|color=c00|bordercolor=666|headcolor=CCC
|title=<big>{{color2|000|Jessie#Pokémon GO|Jessie}}</big> {{color2|000|Team GO Rocket}}
|sprite=VSJessie GO.png
|pokemon1={{MSP/GO|shadow=yes|023|Ekans|size=80|shiny=yes}}
|pokemon2={{MSP/GO|shadow=yes|123|Scyther|size=80}}
|pokemon3={{MSP/GO|shadow=yes|371|Bagon|size=80}}
|catch1=yes
}}
{{go-lineup
|color=c00|bordercolor=666|headcolor=CCC
|title=<big>{{color2|000|James#Pokémon GO|James}}</big> {{color2|000|Team GO Rocket}}
|sprite=VSJames GO.png
|pokemon1={{MSP/GO|shadow=yes|109|Koffing|size=80|shiny=yes}}
|pokemon2={{MSP/GO|shadow=yes|215|Sneasel|size=80}}
|pokemon3={{MSP/GO|shadow=yes|374|Beldum|size=80}}
|catch1=yes
}}

===[[Pokémon Mezastar]]===
Team Rocket, in a version based on the anime, appeared in [[Pokémon Mezastar]]. In this game, Team Rocket is seen using {{p|Magnezone}}, {{p|Pelipper}}, {{p|Chewtle}}, and {{p|Meowth}}. In the [[Super Tag set 1 (Mezastar)|first Super Tag series]], as part of a tie-in with the anime, [[Ash Ketchum|Ash]], [[Goh]], or the Team Rocket trio could randomly challenge the player as a Trainer and Battle opponent. Upon beating the character, the player can receive a Support Pokémon Ticket based on [[Team Rocket's Meowth]]
====Pokémon====
{| align="left" style="margin:auto; {{roundy|10px}}; background:#{{white color dark}}"
|-
|
{| style="margin:auto; {{roundy|7px}}; background:#{{white color light}}"
|-
| style="vertical-align:top" |
{| width="170px" style="style="margin:auto; background:transparent"
|-
! Team Rocket ロケットだん
|-
|
{| cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" style="margin:auto; background: #FFF; border: 3px solid #{{white color dark}}; {{roundytop|10px}}"
| [[File:Mezastar Trainer Team Rocket.png|90px]]
|}
|-
| style="text-align:center" | '''Difficulty:''' ★★☆☆☆
|}
|
{{MezastarPokémon|type=Electric|type2=Steel|name=Magnezone|img=462Magnezone|move=Zap Cannon|movetype=Electric}}
|
{{MezastarPokémon|type=Water|type2=Flying|name=Pelipper|img=279Pelipper|move=Air Slash|movetype=Flying}}
|
{{MezastarPokémon|type=Water|name=Chewtle|img=833Chewtle|move=Water Gun|movetype=Water}}
|
{{MezastarPokémon|type=Normal|name=Meowth|img=052Meowth|move=Fury Swipes|movetype=Normal}}
|}
|}
{{-}}

====Disks====
{{MezastarExpansionList/header|Normal}}
{{MezastarExpansionList/entry|2-1-070|{{OBP|Meowth|2-1-070}}|Normal||4}}
{{MezastarExpansionList/footer|Normal}}

==Quotes==
{{main|Team Rocket trio/Quotes}}

==In the manga==
===Ash & Pikachu===
[[File:Team Rocket trio AP.png|thumb|200px|Team Rocket in Ash & Pikachu]]
The Team Rocket trio is seen following {{Ash}} and {{ashfr}} in [[Ash & Pikachu]], which is based on the [[Johto]], [[Hoenn]], and {{gdis|Battle Frontier|III}} arcs in the {{pkmn|anime}}. Their role in the manga is the same as in the anime.
{{-}}

===The Electric Tale of Pikachu===
[[File:Team Rocket M20 manga.png|thumb|200px|Team Rocket in ''{{ma|I Choose You!}}'']]
The Team Rocket trio appeared in [[The Electric Tale of Pikachu]], although less frequently than in the anime. At the end of the manga, [[Jessie]] and [[James]] were shown [[RocketShipping|married]], with Jessie visibly pregnant.

===Movie adaptations===
Since Team Rocket has appeared in every movie, they have appeared in every manga adaptation of it, except for ''{{ma|Volcanion and the Mechanical Marvel}}'', serving more or less the same roles as in the respective movies.
{{-}}

==In the TCG==
[[File:JessieJamesHiddenFates68.jpg|thumb|200px|Artwork of Team Rocket by [[Megumi Mizutani]] from {{TCG|Hidden Fates}}]]
Jessie, James, Meowth, and their Pokémon have made several appearances in the [[Pokémon Trading Card Game]], owing to their long tenure in the anime, as well as their aforementioned game appearances. This listing is of cards mentioning or featuring Jessie, James, Meowth, or their Pokémon in the Trading Card Game.

{{cardlist/header|Team Rocket's Pokémon|Darkness|Fire|char=yes}}
{{cardlist/entry|cardname=[[Team Rocket's Meowth (Wizards Promo 18)|Team Rocket's Meowth]]|type=Colorless|enset=Wizards Black Star Promos|ennum=18|jpset=Unnumbered Promotional cards}}
{{cardlist/entry|cardname=[[Rocket's Meowth (EX Team Rocket Returns 46)|Rocket's Meowth]]|type=Darkness|enset=EX Team Rocket Returns|enrarity=Uncommon|ennum=46/109|jpset=Rocket Gang Strikes Back|jprarity=Rare|jpnum=059/084}}
{{cardlist/entry|cardname=[[Meowth M (Movie Random Pack 17)|Meowth]] {{SP|M}}|type=Colorless|jpset=Movie Commemoration Random Pack|jpnum=017/022}}
{{cardlist/entry|cardname={{TCG ID|VS|Rocket's Wobbuffet|93}}|type=Psychic|jpset=Pokémon VS|jpnum=093/141}}
{{cardlist/entry|cardname={{TCG ID|EX Team Rocket Returns|Rocket's Wobbuffet|47}}|type=Darkness|jpset=Rocket Gang Strikes Back|enset=EX Team Rocket Returns|jpnum=065/084|ennum=47/109}}
{{cardlist/entry|cardname={{TCG ID|Ash vs Team Rocket Deck|Mareanie|2}}|type=Water|jpset=Ash vs Team Rocket Deck Kit|jpnum=002/026}}
{{cardlist/entry|cardname={{TCG ID|Ash vs Team Rocket Deck|Wobbuffet|8}}|type=Psychic|jpset=Ash vs Team Rocket Deck Kit|jpnum=008/026}}
{{cardlist/entry|cardname=[[Team Rocket's Mimikyu-GX (Ash vs Team Rocket Deck 10)|Team Rocket's Mimikyu]] {{GX}} |type=Psychic|jpset=Ash vs Team Rocket Deck Kit|jpnum=010/026}}
{{cardlist/entry|cardname=[[Meowth (Ash vs Team Rocket Deck 13)|Meowth]]|type=Colorless|jpset=Ash vs Team Rocket Deck Kit|jpnum=013/026}}
{{cardlist/entry|cardname={{TCG ID|Ash vs Team Rocket Deck|Bewear|18}}|type=Colorless|jpset=Ash vs Team Rocket Deck Kit|jpnum=018/026}}
{{cardlist/div|Other related cards|Darkness|Psychic}}
{{cardlist/entry|cardname={{TCG ID|Team Rocket|Here Comes Team Rocket!|15}}|type=Supporter|enset=Team Rocket|enrarity=Rare Holo|ennum=15/82|jpset=Rocket Gang|jprarity=SuperRare Holo|enset2=Team Rocket|enrarity2=Rare|ennum2=71/82|enset3=EX Team Rocket Returns|enrarity3=Rare Holo|ennum3=111/109|jpset3=Rocket Gang Strikes Back|jprarity3=Rare Holo|jpnum3=085/085|enset4=Evolutions|enrarity4=Rare Secret|ennum4=113/108|jpset4=Expansion Pack 20th Anniversary|jprarity4=U|jpnum4=103/087|jpset5=XY-P Promotional cards|jpnum5=278/XY-P}}
{{cardlist/entry|cardname={{TCG ID|Ash vs Team Rocket Deck|Team Rocket's Harassment|26}}|type=Supporter|jpset=Ash vs Team Rocket Deck Kit|jpnum=026/026}}
{{cardlist/entry|cardname={{TCG ID|Hidden Fates|Jessie & James|58}}|type=Supporter|enset=Hidden Fates|enrarity=Rare Holo|ennum=058/068|jpset=Sky Legend|jprarity=R|jpnum=048/054|enset2=Hidden Fates|enrarity2=Rare Ultra|ennum2=68/68|jpset2=Sky Legend|jprarity2=SR|jpnum2=062/054}}
{{cardlist/footer|Darkness}}

==Trivia==
[[File:Jessie James black outfit Nintendo Power.png|thumb|200px|Jessie and James in Nintendo Power #108]]
* Jessie and James appear with black outfits in an illustration of [[Nintendo Power]] Issue 98 (released July 1997), well over a year before the English [[dub]] of the {{pkmn|anime}} would first air, as well as the English release of {{game|Red and Blue|s}}. This may be related to the fact that the {{tc|Team Rocket Grunt}}s use a black outfit in the [[core series]] {{pkmn|games}}.
* Whenever Team Rocket blasts off in the Dutch dub, Meowth's voice actor always adds an additional "Meowth!" (representing its cry) after the trio shouts their familiar catchphrase.
* Jessie and James's names were based on {{wp|Jesse James}}, an outlaw who robbed trains and banks in the 1800s.
* The Team Rocket trio are the only original main characters to interact with [[Generation IX]] Pokémon via [[Team Rocket Expedition which stands by the evils of love and truth]], as ''[[Pokémon Horizons: The Series]]'' features a new set of main characters.

==See also==
*{{cat|Episodes focusing on Team Rocket}}
**{{cat|Episodes focusing on Jessie}}
**{{cat|Episodes focusing on James}}
**{{cat|Episodes focusing on Meowth}}
**{{cat|Episodes focusing on Wobbuffet}}
*[[Mirror Team Rocket]]
*[[Alternate World Team Rocket]]
*[[Team Rocket mottos]]
*[[Team Rocket's mechas]]
*[[List of Team Rocket's disguises]]
*[[List of Pokémon temporarily owned by the Team Rocket trio]]
{{-}}
{{Team Rocket's Pokémon}} 
{{Team Rocket}} 
{{Project Anime notice|no}}

[[Category:Anime characters]]
[[Category:Anime running gags]]
[[Category:Members of Team Rocket]]
[[Category:Groups consisting of characters with different genders]]

[[fr:Team Rocket (trio)]]
[[it:Trio Team Rocket]]
[[zh:火箭隊三人組]]

User talk:Weedle Mchairybug

2024-06-15T14:07:56Z

Weedle Mchairybug: /* Sensational Sisters */

User talk:Weedle Mchairybug

2024-06-15T13:56:24Z

Weedle Mchairybug: /* Sensational Sisters */

Psst. Capitalize your sentences. Don't capitalize random words that aren't important. Follow the {{bp|manual of style}} and good ol' English grammar. And accent that é in Pokémon! '''[[User:TTEchidna|TTE]][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 23:23, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

As {{u|TTEchidna}} said, Capitalize your sentences! And where did you get the idea that Misty was the champion of the Togepi competition? IT WASN'T REAL! It was a trap set by Team Rocket so that they could steal her Togepi for [[Colonel Hansen]]. --[[Special:Contributions/Kenji-girl|☆]][[Tracey Sketchit|ケンジ]][[User:Kenji-girl|ガール]] 21:53, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

WOW!!! Though your new, you put up a very good, strong point in arguements! I congratulate you on that! You should start making edits on regular pages, not just talk pages. Good Job!!! --'''[[User:Theryguy512|Theryguy]][[User:Theryguy512/Contribution Page|5]][[User:Theryguy512/Mission Page|1]][[User:Theryguy512/Games|2]]''' 22:21, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

== Errors ==

I really don't think they are errors, Ash has a long journey that's still going, you can't expect him to remember every moment that happened to him. [[User:TheBlazikenMaster|TheBlazikenMaster]] 15:00, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, yeah, but May's was just beginning and the Rubello convention was just after the Fallabor contest, so that same logic can't be applied there. And anyways, it's not that they HAVE to remember everything, but that doesn't mean they should act as though they never heard of it. I mean, that's like forgetting the day of your birth. Besides, how can he forget about a pokemon he owned?![[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 15:16, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
:You do realize its just a tv show. So the writers forgot to have him remember something. Thats an error.[[User:Darth Cookie Monster|Emperor's Cookies]] 15:20, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
::Ok, it fit under error, but just memory error. I still think it's not error as in "senseless". Ok, I am keeping those in the articles as it might look interesting. But I still think the word "forget" is a better way to describe it than "acted like he never heard of...", since that's what's happening, if you act like something never happens the best way to describe it is with the word forget. I am not planning on removing from [[EP233]] or [[AG072]], don't worry. But I still think the word forget is a better way to word it than "acts like he's never heard of". Besides, Ash only had the Primeape for a few episodes, I'm not surprised he forgot about it. [[User:TheBlazikenMaster|TheBlazikenMaster]] 21:14, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

== Misty's Togetic ==

Ok, u win, just fix the grammar!--[[User:Kuki|Kuki]][[User talk:Kuki|Talk]] 12:17, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
:Done and done. Also, thanks. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 12:24, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

== Brock: Only character who looks Japanese ==

WRONG! It's him, Flint, and the Harrison Kids!--[[User:Kuki|Kuki]][[User talk:Kuki|Talk]] 15:09, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Sigh, let me clarify, Brock is the only one of the MAIN characters who looked Japanese. Flint, his siblings, Harrison Kids, Ninetales owner, Suziko, and that Mime jr/Bonsly show director were either side characters or one-shots. If you edited it, I'll revert the edit and make sure I clarified what I was trying to convey
[[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 15:15, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

== Movie 11 ==
I am going to overlook the fact that you overrode an editorial member's contribution without even paying attention to whether or not it supported your point (for instance, you deleted the paragraph in which I stated that the movies marks Origine Forme and Sky Forme's debuts; how is that controversial?). It is childish conduct, but I am used to it by now.

You should have realized that the content I deleted was all ''conjecture''; I couldn't have very well stated erroneous or unfounded information when I only removed other members' conjecture, could I? It may be true that when the first movie was revealed we had good reason to believe that Palkia would tag along with Dialga, but even back then that was not clearly implied. Since then, Dialga and Regigigas have been shown to have some role in the movie on numerous occasions, whereas Palkia has all but been forgotten. As for the new Pokémon, early toy advertisements led some to believe that the unrevealed Pokémon would pertain to the next generation. Since then, Sky Forme has been unveiled and confirmed to be that very same unrevealed Pokémon, leaving no viable reason to suspect that that speculation could still have merit.

All of the above warranted the deletion of the conjecture from the page as soon as last month. But I have refrained from doing so because I knew that certain members' obstinacy could prove problematic. However, by now circumstances have changed due to the fact that the movie has premiered in an early showing in a limited number of Japanese theaters. We already have a synopsis that may not be full-fledged, but is good enough to remove doubt on the subject of Palkia and new Pokémon: They are nowhere to be seen. --[[User:Unown Lord|Unown Lord]] 09:13, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

== Try not to be so biased... ==

Even if Hidaka's statement did sound kinda sexist, well, shit, it's true. Have you ''seen'' the amount of 34 there is of Pokémon, and not just of the human characters? I'm sure you have. Face it, older fans are complete pervs, and it's not like giving Misty short shorts, May a huge rack, and Dawn a short skirt isn't just as sexist. Heck, you couldn't even PLAY as a girl until Crystal! It's not that they're being sexist; it's that they have the internet and know of all the stuff out there... and so therefore, like in ''[[DP039|Steamboat Willies]]'', fanservice, fanservice, fanservice.

Anyway, I reworded the statement, hoping to be more NPOV. Now I'm gonna go wash my keyboard off, because I don't wanna start becoming one of those acronym-throwing Wikipedos. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 23:22, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

:Actually, if I was being biased, I would have only inserted it into Misty's article, and not even have bothered to insert it in May and Dawns articles. Besides, technically, you can play as a girl before Kris, since Misty was playable in Pokemon Puzzle League. And since Love hina comes to mind, in my mindset, Fanservice = sexist. And anyways, May and Dawn were even MORE Fanservicey than Misty (I go by the definition that it's only fanservicey if the person clearly enjoys doing the scandalous thing, or at least implies the enjoyment [Like the majority of the characters in LH, for example.].). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 23:53, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

::I've said this already, but you do not control the definitions of words. Society does. Especially on a wiki, it's important to rely on objective definitions rather than subjective opinions. And even if we go by your definition, Misty clearly enjoyed showing off her body in the Porta Vista Beauty Contest, dressing in that Goldeen swimsuit, and in that mermaid costume, and I don't recall Dawn doing anything "scandalous" on purpose. --[[User:PsychoRobo|PsychoRobo]] 17:09, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

:::No, Misty DIDN'T enjoy the Porta Vista Beauty Contest. She said "It's so degrading, but I need the money" when having to do it, which meant that she didn't like showing off like a playboy model. Also, in regards to the Goldeen outfit, Misty ALSO didn't enjoy it either. She said something like "at least they aren't taking notice of me", which implied she didn't really like the situation she was in (much less having to wear that outfit.). The Mermaid Outfit, she didn't really like having to wear it (ESP. in "The Misty Mermaid"), especially considering that the only reason she did the part was because her sisters set her up (BTW, she refused several times, but eventually relented when she realized her sisters needed help in regards to it). Also, the only reason she agreed to wear the outfit in "Cerulean Blues" was to try and calm down Gyarados. that's FAR Different compared to something like... Oh, I don't know, May's clear enjoyment of stripping on the beach, or Kanako Urashima's complete gladness of stripping (and even doing it in front of her brother at one point.

:::As for what Dawn did that was scandalous, she dressed up as a French Maid (which was a common Japanese Fetish), among other things.[[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 18:46, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Main series games only--[[User:Kuki|Kuki]][[User talk:Kuki|Talk]] 23:53, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

::::Dude, who ''doesn't'' enjoy going to the beach? Besides, is May supposed to wear her regular clothes and GO SWIMMING? And don't forget, Ash wore those clothes too. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 00:56, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

:::::I was referring to the swimsuit contest, since THAT was what you referenced. Also, yes, it's a bit impractical for her to wear her regular clothes and go swimming at the same time, but that doesn't mean she should have stripped in a strip-tease fashion, with her brother practically begging for her to stop doing it, and both he and ash being embarrassed. It's not the question of whether they enjoy going to the beach or not, it's whether they enjoying causing a scandal or not. If you try to disrupt this one more time, I WILL end up being forced to post Love Hina Pics to try and prove what exactly I meant by Fanserviced girls enjoying doing scandalous things. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 01:18, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

::::::I've come to realize that that's what anime does. They're basically all the same. They make the girls into fanservice. Look at YuGiOh GX. The guys wear respectable uniforms while the girls trot around in mini skirts with huge breasts. Come to think of it, Pokémon is being pretty lenient when it comes to fanservice compared to other animes. Not all of the girls have huge breasts unless they are older women (Lorelei and Prof. Ivy). --[[Special:Contributions/Kenji-girl|☆]][[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 01:23, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

::::::: May also has the racks as well, which, along with the other things, makes me want to stop it. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 01:29, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

::::::::Pffsst. You call that a rack? I don't get why people think May's boobs are big. That's just my opinion. --[[Special:Contributions/Kenji-girl|☆]][[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 01:32, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

:::::::::Maybe they aren't as big as Prima's, but they are definitely far too large for her age. I mean, ask her side profile pictures if you don't believe me. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 01:33, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Love Hina pics? If I was more of the male Internet user stereotype, I'd jump for joy at the prospect, but at least someone else might garner "enjoyment" out of them. In the meantime, I'll prepare for the event by giving you a picture of Slave Leia (from Star Wars Episode VI) as soon as I'm back on Bulbagarden forums, because obviously it is not fanservice because she obviously did not enjoy it and it did serve a more meaningful purpose than showing off Carrie Fisher's sweet bod.

Crikey, you make such a big deal out of the "stripping" scene. If anything, it was Max's fault for suggesting that it was striptease in the first place, because, oh, maybe changing into swimsuits on the beach is normal? Besides, American cartoons are arguably worse with these kind of jokes, because several episodes have little boys running around naked (Dexter's Laboratory and The Fairly OddParents, as examples). And yes, controversy over children's TV shows have been done to death already in North America, so I guess you're out of a job when it comes to American cartoons. And I suspect (directed at Kenji-girl) that people think May's boobs are big because this is the Internet, where everything is blown out of proportion.

I laughed at your claim that Dawn dressing up as a French maid was scandalous. Okay, so Ash also dressing up as a maid is not scandalous? What about Ash's recent Tarzan outfit (check Bulbagarden's Ash Club for details)? Or are you being sexist against males by suggesting they can't be hot too? --[[User:PsychoRobo|PsychoRobo]] 15:31, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

:Look, I don't enjoy those things anymore than you do. I used that as a way to try and stop you from doing that (mocking me).

:Also, everyone else made a big deal out of the striptease as well! And anyways, blame the writers as well, since they set it up as a striptease as well. And also blame Ash for looking embarrased about what he just saw. and anyways, MOST people wear an undershirt when they go to the beach. They DON'T, however, go to the beach in their regular clothes and take them off in front of everyone. also, I barely even WATCH Fairly OddParents (as a matter of fact, my parents, as well as I, avoided that show like the plague for the same reasons they mostly avoid the Simpsons.), and while I used to watch Dexters Laboratory, I started to hate it when they did that musical episode.

:and another thing, an entire THREAD was made in regards to how Pokemon was becoming more fetishish and used Dawn's Cheerleader and Maid costumes as an example. I'll eliminate every single sexist action on this planet, male and female alike. Besides, how can I be sexist with my own gender? By being sexist towards males, I'm being sexist towards myself. And anyways, Ash didn't even WANT to wear the Maids outfit, as you can tell by his blushing out of humiliation.

:I have warned you that if you don't stop mocking me, I WILL be forced to post those pics if it stops you. And I will act on it, even though I feel as though this is a mistake. I have hated these pics, but they prove my point as to how degrading fanservice is, and most importantly, how the characters in question actually DO enjoy causing this scandal. You have brought this upon yourself...
:However, I'll be a bit merciful and delay it until I successfully upload the first part of my video, which, as soon as I download Version 12 of Pinnacle, shouldn't take too long, since the Images in question are ON this video. HOWEVER, that doesn't mean you are allowed to mock me. I mean, think of it this way, if your parents, or your friends (real life friends, I mean), mentioned their dislike of May OR Dawn, would you act the very same way towards them that you act towards me? If the answer is no, take that into account before you try to mock me again.

:[[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 16:17, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
::And that entire sexism thread lost all credibility after its first response, when Blackjack Palazzo claimed she wished to see more male fanservice. And there was another girl that said it was mostly males that argue over this kind of thing, and the girls don't see much of a problem. So much for feminism, eh? Plus, I don't know many males who would willingly cross-dress, besides characters like Harley, James, and Bugs Bunny. Ash's unwillingness to wear it is thus irrelevant. I also don't know what a musical episode of Dexter's Laboratory has to do with the discussion. Please stop throwing non sequiturs around if you wish to be taken seriously.

::Oh, you're being merciful? Well, that's just a bit more time to postpone posting Slave Leia pics on your account, then. Anyways, who said I didn't enjoy fanservice? It's so fun to mock.

::As for your last question, of course I would still act the same way towards you. Why should I let other people control the way I think? A lot of people don't like Pokemon in my school, so your "peer pressure" argument barely fazes me. Oh, wait, you're jealous, aren't you? You're jealous because I scored with the same Serebii mod that banned you. You can't believe that I could get on her good side while you ended up becoming the laughingstock of Serebii's idiot hunters, and that's why you put the "real life friends" part. Well, maybe if you weren't trying to usurp her position by judging everyone on the forum with your "holier-than-thou" attitude (kind of like Lisa Simpson), then maybe you wouldn't be in the position you are now! P.S. This is becoming increasingly irrelevant to Bulbapedia editing. If you wish to continue, put this on my Bulbagarden or Pokecommunity account (MetaRobo/PorygonSquared, respectively). [[User:PsychoRobo|PsychoRobo]] 16:48, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

== Linking to other wikis ==

When linking to other wikis, please remeber to use {{ }} around the link, not [[ ]]

Thanks. ♪♪[[User:ShinyPachirisu|Shiny]] [[User Talk:ShinyPachirisu|Pachirisu]] :) ♪♪ 00:38, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

== Let me explain something to you ==

Just because I said that it doesn't only apply to Misty doesn't mean you can go and put it on May and Dawn's pages.

The reason we have a page on SOVA, despite being a fan thing, is because it was a big deal. This isn't so much a big deal that caused fans to write hundreds of letters. Infact I doubt that many people even know about it.

We already mention what he said on [[Masamitsu Hidaka|his page]] and how some fans find it offensive. We don't need to affiliate the character with it as well. Yes it was a shitty thing to say but we don't need to be reminded of it everytime we visit Misty, May, or Dawn's pages. --[[Special:Contributions/Kenji-girl|☆]][[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 11:35, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

::Fine, I won't edit the pages, and I'm also sorry for my response on your talk page, while I'm at it. However, I'm only stopping because Hidaka's page already mentioned it. and anyways, as far as I'm concerned, if it doesn't apply to just one person involved, it applies to ALL people involved. So, next time you say something like that, try it in a way that I can understand. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 11:40, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

== Arceus/Mew dispute ==

I've put up a full explanation at [[Talk:Arceus (Pokémon)#Arceus vs. Mew]]. I don't mean to sound so aggressive, but there truly is no real basis for considering Mew the first. At best, it should be mentioned that the fan community considered it the first, but that was always fanon and never what the games actually claimed.

Again, sorry if I've offended you.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 06:32, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

:I also posted my response on that discussion. And also, Porygon MAY have been made later, but then, if it can't be a descendant of Mew, then HOW can Mew be able to transform into it? I mean, they HAD to have used some form of Mew's DNA in order for it to be able to transform into it and it's family (Besides, they used Mew's DNA to create Mewtwo, who's to say they used ALL of the Mew DNA to transform into it? Besides, the pokedex entries hint that the reason why Mewtwo is savage and aggressive is because they repeatedly spliced Mewtwo's DNA, so I'm guessing they may have used his DNA in Grimer/Muk, Castform, and, yes, even the Porygon Family, so in a sense, they are Mewtwo's Children, and thus, in a sense, Mew's Grandchildren. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 11:00, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
:::Replied on the talk page. As for your comment here, I'm sorry, but it is completely ignorant of any concept of genetics, especially the actual concept of [[wikipedia:RNA splicing|genetic splicing]] and what DNA ''does'', as well as the actual text of Porygon's Pokedex entries, and the in-game description of how {{m|Transform}} works.

:::Let me illustrate your basic misunderstanding - a child typically has distinct DNA from two sources ( a mother and a father). You may not know this, but the mother and father generally have ''completely'' distinct lineages, and share almost no DNA that all humans don't share - to put it simply, the mother and father are generally not brother and sister, or anything close.
:::Now, because of this, the child will have DNA from the mother ''and'' father. What you are claiming is analogous to saying that the child's father should be able to turn into the child's mother, because the child, his descendant, has DNA from his mother. But this is utter hogwash, and immediately recognizable as lunatic raving. The very use of sexual reproduction in macro-evolution is that it introduces '''''NEW''''' genes into the gene pool.
:::If transformation were inherent in the species ''at all'', it would be obvious to even the casual observer that it would be the ''child'' who could be expected to be able to transform into both the father or mother, ''as his very nature'' is to be a collection of both of their DNA.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 05:57, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
::::Okay, first off - you don't get to make ultimatums, that's not how a wiki works. Second off, where in the ''hell'' does the D/P Pokedex say that Mew is "believed to be the originator of all Pokémon", thought to "possibly contain the genetic code of every other Pokémon", or able to "learn every TM/HM"? Finally, how could "Arceus being the original one" and "Mew creating ''ALL'' Pokemon" ever be reconciled? They're necessarily contradictory!
::::However, to try and compromise with you ''without'' making up fanfiction and being dishonest about the Pokedex, I rewrote the section you keep adding without having removed it. Is this acceptable?[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 03:44, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::Fine, I thank you for at least keeping the gist of it. BTW, I wasn't lying about the Pokédex entry. As a matter of fact, I have copied and pasted Mew's D/P Dex entry from his article just for you to see it. here it is:
:::::'''''''Because it can use all kinds of moves, many scientists believe Mew to be the ancestor of Pokémon. '''''''
:::::And to further prove that I'm not lying, I ALSO am going to post a link:
:::::Bulbapedia.Bulbagarden.net/wiki/Mew_(Pokémon)#Pokédex_entries.
:::::Next time you try to accuse me of lying about it, read Mew's D/P pokedex entry first, since it still said that Mew was believed to be the ancestor of pokémon (the fact it said pokémon made it seem like it said all pokémon.).
:::::Also, I tried to reason with you multiple times, but you insisted that it shouldn't be in there, despite the fact that the Dex actually stated it, so I was forced to take drastic measures.
:::::[[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 10:33, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
::::::YEs, you ''were'' incorrect about the Pokedex entry - you claimed it specifically said those things, and ''it did not''. '''Those''' were the points in contention, and you keep trying to avoid them. The Dex does '''not''' "actually say it", so you're claim that I forced you to keep trying to pass off your speculation as fact is incorrect.
*Specifically:
#The DP pokedex entry says '''nothing''' about TMs/HMs.
#The DP pokedex entry says '''nothing''' about genetics.
#The DP pokedex entry says '''nothing''' about "''originating'' '''all''' Pokemon".[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 01:05, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
::Do I LOOK Like I care what the DP pokedex says?! I only care for what ALL of them said. And ANOTHER thing, they may have not explicitly mentioned "TMs/HMs", but the mere fact that Mew's DP pokédex entry said that it can use ''All kinds of moves'' implies that it can learn TMs and HMs as well, as well as natural, move tutors, and even moves only available from Metronome. As for Genetics, The closest thing it came to mentioning Genetics was in SSBB's Trophy, and besides which, the mere fact that it can learn transform (which is stated to be the recombining of DNA into the pokemon that matches that DNA) should be enough to prove it's the Ancestor. And for Originating All Pokemon. SO WHAT? The Pokédex entry ALSO didn't say it originated most, some, few, or even only one Pokemon, either. It just said "Ancestor of All Pokemon", and from what I can tell, especially with how people often interperet thing, if it doens't explicitly mention that it's only most, few, some, or only one pokemon that it is an ancestor of, that means it's the ancestor of All Pokemon. Therefore, Mew stated that it's ancestor of pokemon = ancestor of all pokemon.

::I also forgot to mention one thing. There's a Significant difference between Mew's transforming into a Pokemon and Ditto's Transforming into a pokémon. Ditto can only transform into a pokemon when it sees it [It's also implied that it can't go by memory], whileas with Mew, it's implied thar Mew can transform into any pokemon without necessarily needing to see it at first (as one of the problems with trying to get Mew in Emerald is that it can transform into pokemon, and in the Anime, it's been shown to transform into pokemon that it hasn't had any contact with, or at the very least not any direct contact [eg, Ho-oh, Taillow, etc.].).

::Even IF it's not directly mentioned in the D/P/P Pokedex, we must wait until GSDS comes out (if it comes out) or, assuming that there is one, generation 5 before we say that it's been retconned. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 01:23, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

== Wow! ==

In all the time you've been on Bulbapedia, you haven't made a single contribution to the Userspace! That's quite an accomplishment! --[[User:Politoed666|ニョロトノ]][[User talk:Politoed666|''666'']] 22:22, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
:Userspace? [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 22:37, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
::Its the user page and anything connected with it except talk pages. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[User:Jmath/Sandbox|'''th''']] 22:41, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
::Oh, that. See, it's in red spacing, and I'm not completely sure if I can create one. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 22:42, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
:::O.O You don't have to create a page... ♪♪[[User:ShinyPachirisu|Shiny]] [[User Talk:ShinyPachirisu|Pachirisu]] :) ♪♪ 22:44, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
==Legendary Genders==
it said none because Legendary's dont have genders! [[User:Mooites|Mooites]] 01:55, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
:Only in the games, though. Maybe you've forgotten, but a Baby Lugia DID appear in the show. If they didn't have genders, please explain how Silver even exists?! Heck, most of the legendaries had multiples in the anime, and if they don't have genders, how can they have multiple species at the same time? [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 02:16, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
::Asexual Reproduction? They are hermaphrodites? There's more methods of reproduction than male/female sexual reproduction, you know. [[User:PsychoRobo|PsychoRobo]] 22:11, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
::good point. [[User:Mooites|Mooites]] 02:19, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
:::Mooites, this is directed at PsychoRobo, so don't think it seems like i'm lecturing you. PsychoRobo, ONE. Next time you have to respond to my usertalk, or any talk page for that matter, place it AFTER the recent poster. TWO. Asexual Reproduction requires budding, for the most part. THREE, Hermaphrodites change genders (meaning, they change from female to male just to reproduce. So, in one sense, the Marril family are hermaphrodites.), so they would still need to mate in order to reproduce the same effect. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 22:35, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
::::First, to respond to three. The topic was whether legendaries had genders or not. Just because they need to mate doesn't mean they have defined genders. And to two, budding is not the only form of asexual reproduction. In fact, many creatures such as starfish and especially plants can reproduce with a fragment of the parent. [[User:PsychoRobo|PsychoRobo]] 00:06, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::I think Budding involves the separation of the original host, so Starfish actually DO bud to reproduce. Also, Plants technically require pollination in order to reproduce (the stigma is the male plant, the phyla is the female, the pollen goes to another plant, they make eggs known as seeds, get my drift?), so technically, it's not asexual reproduction. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 00:10, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
::::::Plants can regenerate asexually with one of their body parts removed, though. It's not their main option, but it is an option. [[User:PsychoRobo|PsychoRobo]] 14:51, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

== Edits ==

Please stop doing it. We can discuss it on the talk page. Just no more edits. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[User:Jmath/Sandbox|'''th''']] 22:07, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

:Fine, But the thing still stands. Now, if you want to add a footnote that this happened before the release of Platinum on the edits page (or request me to do so), fine, because that way, we'll have middle ground. I can say it's technically a out of order defeat, and you can say that it was before Platinum was released. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 22:11, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
::Anyway, where did you get that the order is changed? It isn't anywhere else here. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[User:Jmath/Sandbox|'''th''']] 22:13, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
:::Tv.com. The Platinum release thread. Specifically:

:::"Hearthome Gym is now the Third gym, Veilstone is the Fourth, and Pastoria is the Fifth

:::How dumb is it for Fantina not to have Drifblim. Her dress is best on it, and her gym in the anime was. "

:::"Oh, I didn't even notice the Gym order switch!

:::Yay, in Diamond and Pearl Fantina uses Drifblim in Super Contests, and since her dress is based on one I guess they'll let her keep that Driflblim. Now while the Drifblim/Duskull switch is odd, why in the world did they replace her Gengar with a Haunter? Just becuase she's no longer the fifth Gym they downgraded her Pokemon?

:::Though I do agree with the evolving of Gardenia's Cherubi into a Cherrim, hopefully Dawn will get one in the anime."

:::The Quotes were from SPDShadowRanger and Pikachu315111, respectively

:::[[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 22:23, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Are you sure what's written there can be taken as fact? How can some guy know that when the game hasn't even been released yet. Even Bulbapedia is not mentioning it. At least edit it when the game's released. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[User:Jmath/Sandbox|'''th''']] 22:26, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

:Considering how even Serebii (The webmaster, not the pokemon) is playing through Platinum as we speak, I'd say it already HAS been released. If serebii updated the site to include the changes in Roark's pokemon/Puzzle, It can be fairly certain that these others have played the game. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 22:30, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
::Then what is September 13 for? Some guys get special privileges? [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[User:Jmath/Sandbox|'''th''']] 22:34, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
:::I just changed the release date, and mentioned why in it's talk page. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 22:35, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

If you could make the footnote for that trivia, go ahead. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[User:Jmath/Sandbox|'''th''']] 22:41, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

== Style ==

Please read the {{bp|manual of style}} and familiarize yourself with English grammar before you edit too much more. Your recent edits to [[legendary birds]] spelled Pokémon as pokemon, used "it's", among as possessive, and has weird capitals all over the place, among other errors. --[[User:Martonimos|Martonimos]][[User talk:Martonimos|((Argh]]|[[Special:Contributions/Martonimos|Blargh))]] 20:57, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

== Delete? ==

Do you want your user page deleted?Can I put the tag on it? another user generously made one for you--[[User:DCM|DCM]][[User talk:DCM|((Nag at Me!]][[Special:Contributions/DCM|Edits))]]

== Speculation ==

Please don't put speculation in main articles; just put it on the talk page. [[User:Dialgarules|Dialgarules]] 01:30, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
:I'm sorry, but you ''really'' have to make sense on this site. You put Poké-ball when it SAYS IN THE WELCOME THINGY to say '''Poké [space] Ball!''' When you say that Meowth "prefers to walk around" it could mean a lot of things. You could say that it likes to be out of its Poké [space] Ball. How about you take a quick look at [[Bulbapedia:Manual_of_style|this]]? [[User:Dialgarules|Dialgarules]] 00:39, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

== Pokémon Heroes Subtitles ==

There are such things that are called, oh maybe you've heard of them, ERRORS. I've listened to it several times and it does not sound like "I'm sorry" to me. Sometimes the people making the subtitles mess up. Also the whole Misty catching Totodile thing doesn't float. That's a matter of opinion and making speculations because of the way the balls were thrown. Don't put any of these things on Totodile's page again.--[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 10:52, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
:Ok, but then again, technically, several other things like the Major events section, Trivia, and Errors section technically shouldn't appear in those pages either, since it's kinda speculation in and of itself, no matter how it's worded. Heck, the entirety of Bulbapedia's articles are speculation. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 13:42, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

== Anime abilities ==

Please do not add unconfirmed abilities to anime Pokémon pages. It doesn't matter if the only ability for a {{AP|Totodile}} is {{a|Torrent}}, or if the only ability for a {{AP|Larvitar}} is {{a|Guts}}. Unless it is confirmed in words in the anime, the ability stays as Unknown. The unconfirmed ability removal was started by {{u|Politoed666}} an EB member. - [[User:Kogoro|'''<sc>Kogoro</sc>''']] '''|''' [[User talk:Kogoro|'''<sc>Talk to me</sc>''']] '''|''' 04:34, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
:If that's the case, should we eliminate the majority of Psyduck's wins (or participations in battles in other words?), or heck, Pikachu's Participation in Round 2 of the Saffron Gym battle? I mean, they never explicitly said in the anime "I choose Pikachu"/"Pikachu, GO!" or "Psyduck, I choose you!" those times (if anything, the opposite is true, as with Psyduck, it pops out when she's choosing Staryu, Starmie, or some other pokemon, and Ash tried to tell Pikachu to avoid battling Kadabra.), and thus is the same thing, as far as I'm concerned (I also posted this for Politoed666 on Maverick Nate's talk Page.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 04:57, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
::Then understand what she meant to say and not what she literally said. Psyduck is ''used'' in the anime. Torrent is not. Pikachu is ''used'' in the anime. Guts is not. Abilities that are not mentioned and do not ever appear should not be put on anime pages. [[User:IIMarckus|IIMarckus]] 05:04, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
:::Even IF the ability is the only thing it's got?! I mean, common sense should dictate the fact that, if it's the only ability it can ever have, it is to be included in the abilities section, REGARDLESS if it's stated in the anime or not. Besides, Abilities ARE used as well (they activate under certain conditions). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 05:08, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
::::The anime and games barely match up at the best of times. You might as well be adding “Based on the moves such‐and‐such knows, it is probably between levels 34 and 40” to pages. Nothing suggests that the Totodile in the anime has Torrent. [[User:IIMarckus|IIMarckus]] 05:11, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
:::::On the case of the ability needing to be mentioned in words, how else would an ability be confirmed? Misty's Psyduck popping out of it's Poké Ball and battling is visual, so it's obvious without any words. It's rather hard to not notice the flash of light come from Misty's pack, then Psyduck standing near her. With abilities, it's a little less black & white. Unless someone like Brock says something like "Totodile's using its ability, Torrent!" we're not able to know that it's actually Torrent activating or not. I hope you understand now. - [[User:Kogoro|'''<sc>Kogoro</sc>''']] '''|''' [[User talk:Kogoro|'''<sc>Talk to me</sc>''']] '''|''' 05:41, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

== Grammar ==

The first letter of every sentence is capitalized, and Pokémon is spelled with an é and an uppercase P. You've been here long enough to know that, so you should have gotten it the first time. ''[[User:Maverick Nate|'''Maverick''']][[User talk:Maverick Nate|'''Nate''']]'' 15:45, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

:Please, please starting using better grammar. Stop making so many run-on sentences. And stop capitalizing words that don't need to be like ''dub''. Only capitalize the first word in the sentence, Pokémon names, character names, anything with Poké in front of it, and proper nouns. Also you use ''whileas'' in your sentences A LOT. Whileas is not a word. If you want, but really not needed, put ''while as''. But you really don't need it. Just say ''while''. And don't over use those parenthesis (). You use them way too much. And try not to add these extra words like ''merely'', ''actually'', or ''clearly'' unless absolutely needed. Thank you. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 06:05, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

== Ironically ==

Please don't over user the term 'ironically'. Thanks, --[[User:RexRacer|'''Rex]][[Quilava (Pokémon)|Racer''']] [[User talk:RexRacer|'''''-talk''''']] 15:52, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

== "Focusing" ==

There is a difference between an episode focusing on a particular character, and a particular character supporting them. For episode 232? That is not an episode focusing on Misty. Brock? Yes. Look a little more closely at these roles, then decide who it's focused on. -[[User:Sketch|Sketch]] 21:01, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
:Well, actually it's focused on both. You see, if it wasn't for Misty, Brock would have become the Ninetale's owner's reincarnate, and Ash would have also completely fallen for the deception, and Brock would also have never figured out that the Ninetales in question was just trying to relive it's memories of it's own trainer, so it's also focused upon in there. Now, if you want "supporting", Ash is a good example, He didn't initially think about it being a trick/illusion made by Ninetales, even claiming Misty was paranoid, and only started to believe when Ash saw Brock go through her.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 21:06, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
::Just because Misty figured out what Ninetails was doing doesn't mean it's a Misty focused episode. Stop trying to look for any little thing that makes Misty the focus of the episode. Like 133. Pikachu and Meowth were also the focal points of the episode so why didn't you think of adding Ash and Team Rocket as focuses. Because they are not. The focuses were the Pokémon. Not Misty. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 00:28, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
:::Actually, in regards to EP133, it's because Meowth and Pikachu already have their OWN episode focusing templates, so adding in Jessie James Ash or Team Rocket's episode focusing templates would have been pointless.

:::And anyways, she didn't merely just "Figure it out", she tried to warn Ash and especially Brock for a significant portion of the episode. See, anything a main character does that's significant to the episode as well as focuses on them for the majority of the time is a "episode focused on so-and-so" episode in and of itself, and Contests/Gym Battles and even Captures aren't enough. I mean, Jessie, for instance, won a ribbon in the episode where Ash beat fantina, was this a Jessie-oriented episode? no, because she was barely even focused on [in fact, unless I'm mistaken, which I probably am, i think the contest was actually not even shown until after Ash won the battle] the episode [[EP103|Misty Meets her Match]] was a similar scenario.). Now, if I added in the template for episode 001, then yes, your accusations would be legitimate, correct, and justified.

:::It doesn't matter anyways, as I have already completed the test anyways (Ash:40, Misty:46, maybe Ash:40, Misty:45 now.), and this was actually a test to see if Ash was truly the central character (the central character would usually have most of the entire show focused on him/her. As he didn't exceed Misty, he's not really a central main character.). the only part Misty had in it was to see whether she was actually equal to Ash, or rather, to set a fair comparison between the characters to have it be a fair test (I can't use Brock or Tracey, because that would be a no contest, and thus, an unfair advantage on Ash's part.). I also plan on doing the same thing with Ash and May in regards to AG, and Ash and Dawn in DP as well.

:::On a side note, I also did it to statistically find out which of the girls was actually close to being Ash's equal (I earlier speculated Misty, but I found out that she actually exceeded Ash), and I only did it because I have certain doubts of Dawn actually being equal to Ash (since I researched it, and noticed initially that Misty seemed closer to equality to Ash than May and Dawn were). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 01:08, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
::::Just because Togepi doesn't have a focusing category yet doesn't automatically make Misty the character of focus. News flash, Ash is the main character of the show not Misty. And there is WAY MORE THAN 40 episodes focusing on Ash. As for the female character that is Ash's equal, I believe it's Dawn. For someone who's been in the series for 107 episodes, she sure had a significant amount of episodes focusing on her. Maybe not as much as Misty, but Misty was around for 250 plus episodes. At the rate the show is going, Dawn will probably have more episodes than Misty. I know you might not like to hear that, but it's the truth. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 01:15, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

::::in regards to Togepi, if you are talking about Tanks a lot, it's because Misty pretty much organized the attack among other things. As for your claims that Ash is focused upon more than Misty (and more than 40 episodes), that's not even close to a true statement. I already did the analysis of all the episodes I could, outrightly ignoring those that are completely unknown. Also, Most of the Johto episodes didn't even focus on Ash at all (and also didn't focus on Misty, Brock, OR Team Rocket), Instead, it focused on COTDs with even Ash being nothing more than the Background, so, in all reality, Ash isn't the central character you think he is. If anything, it's you whose being more biased. I was trying to make it as fair as I can. There were even Gym matches that barely even focused on Ash at all, despite his participating in them (Case in point: Misty Meets her Match.) And also, the majority of the captures he made in the Kanto Saga either had him sharing the spotlight (Ash Catches a Pokémon, which not only dealt with Ash's captures, but Character Development from Misty as well, since a significant part of the episode dealt with her trying to cope with Caterpie despite her fear of bug-types/bugs.), or was never even in the spotlight in the first place (Charmander and the Stray Pokemon, as that episode dealt with Brock trying to help Charmander and all that, among other things, and Ash pretty much took Charmander.).

::::And also, I counted the episode listings thus far in regards to Dawn-centric episodes, and out of the 107 episodes thus far, only 20 episodes were actually focused on Dawn (see, in order for it to be a lot for a girl who has been in for 107 episodes, it needs to be, oh... 40 episodes in that range at least.). Misty had more by this time (7 more by the halfway point, and we just went by the halfway point already, as the 12th movie trailer implied that the upcoming 12th movie will be the last DP series movie.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 01:41, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
:::::This is the problem I have with your counting. Obviously there are others who do not agree that characters in certain episodes have "focus". Therefore your "statistics" aren't entirely accurate. You can say that "Oh, this character is the focus in this episode so that gives them this many episodes..." and so forth...that doesn't make it true. -[[User:Sketch|Sketch]] 01:48, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
::::::Since others seem to not agree amongst themselves, that also means that even THEIR views on what's "Focus" isn't entirely accurate either. And anyways, if that's the case, then Ash never really had much focus in the Leagues, even though those league episodes were listed as episodes focused on him. It's no different. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 01:51, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
:::::::Misty wasn't the one who orginized the plan in Tanks A lot. From what I remember, it was mostly Team Rocket's idea. You give Misty WAY TOO MUCH credit for things. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 02:02, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
::::::::Like how you gave too much credit to Ash or Dawn? you don't seem to be getting this, even without Tanks a Lot, she still had more ACTUAL character-centric episodes than Ash anyhow, and had more character-centric episodes than Dawn, anyways, even by range. And hey, what about the part about Entei at your own risk being a Brock centric episode just because his Foretress evolving, even though there were episodes where a main characters pokemon evolved even though said main character wasn't even the focus of the episode ("March of the Exeggutor Squad" says hi, since the episode was actually a Misty-centric episode by all definitions, and yet Ash's Charmeleon evolved, despite his barely even being out of the background.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 02:17, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Because Ash is the absolute main character of the show. And you only so far counted the original series episodes. What about Advanced and DP? You can't possibly believe Misty has more character focused episodes than Ash. And as for Entie At Your Own Risk, it does automatically a character focused episode when one of their Pokémon evolves. There Pokémon accidentally wondering off doesn't. And you say that its Misty focused because Togepi got inside the tank but refuse to acknowledge Ash and Team Rocket for the very same reason.

Personally, I think your a bit Misty obsessed and are looking for any reason to label Misty the focus of an episode. Please come to the realization that Misty was not the main focus of the series and that Ash was, and still is. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 02:27, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

:No, he ISN'T the absolute main character. Also, I counted the original series episodes because I just wanted to focus on whose the more equal female. And anyways, since you said "Original Series", that's because it's three different series in Japan, meaning, trying to compare is ridiculous beyond belief. I mean, it's like trying to say Ash was more popular than May in the Original series, it's silly. As for the whole thing about evolution=character-focus episode, no it doesn't. In order for it to truly be a character-centric episode, the character in question must have actual focus for more than 50% of the entire episode. As Brock wasn't even focused on for most of the episode, evolution or not, it's not an actual "Brock-centric episode".

:Also, I'm not misty-obsessed (aside from wanting to want her to return and working to make sure i do that, of course.). Believe me, If I WAS truly what you had described me, I would have labeled EP001, and absolutely every single episode Misty was in for that matter [even that brief cameo she had in the Hoenn Conference), as being a Misty-centric episode just because she's in it. And anyways, even if she wasn't, Ash wasn't either. I mean, I could list a few episodes that didn't focus on ANY of the main characters at all, like the majority of the Johto saga (The Xatu episode didn't focus on Ash, the Sunflora Vileplume episode didn't focus on Ash, the the Red Gyarados arc didn't focus on Ash [if it focused on anyone, it was Lance], etc. etc.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 03:02, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

::Yes, he is. Misty and the others are main characters but the anime basically revolves around Ash. ESPECIALLY in the original series in which you keep insisting Misty is the center of the series. What did Misty do? Was it Misty who competed in the Gym Battles? Was it Misty who competed in the Pokémon League? Was it Misty who was deciding where they were heading next? She was basically a character like Brock, Tracey, and Max are. One of Ash's friends who follows him and really doesn't do anything that greatly impacts the direction of the series. This does not mean that they are not important but they are basically behind Ash and are not his equal in anyway. The beginning of the Japanese openings never said "Satoshi, Kasumi, and Takeshi". They always said "Satoshi". It wasn't until the Diamond and Pearl that it was changed to "Satoshi and Hikari". It was the Advanced Generation were they decided to share the main point of the series with another character, May.

::You seem to be misunderstanding what I meant. I didn't mean every single episode is Ash focused. I'm saying that the anime in general is Ash focused.

::To Bulbapedia's standards, an episode in which a main character catches a Pokémon, evolves a Pokémon, or releases a Pokémon is an automatic focus on a particular character. Regardless of what you think.

::Yes, you are indeed Misty obsessed if you believe that she was more important of a character than Ash is. Even I don't say that about Tracey. If Misty was indeed the most important character of the series than why isn't she in it anymore? Why did the producers decide to keep Brock and not her?

::So are you trying to tell me that what ever happened after the original series doesn't matter? That it doesn't matter that Ash continued to be in more episodes after Misty's departure. Get a clue. Ash is the center of the anime followed by Dawn and May then the other characters, which includeds Misty. Of course Team Rocket is up their with May and Dawn as the opposing side to the heroes. You need to except that. Just because Misty has a lot of fans doesn't make her more important in the series than Ash is. You are being way too baised in your decisions. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 03:51, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

:::''Yes, he is. Misty and the others are main characters but the anime basically revolves around Ash. ESPECIALLY in the original series in which you keep insisting Misty is the center of the series. What did Misty do? Was it Misty who competed in the Gym Battles? Was it Misty who competed in the Pokémon League? Was it Misty who was deciding where they were heading next? She was basically a character like Brock, Tracey, and Max are. One of Ash's friends who follows him and really doesn't do anything that greatly impacts the direction of the series. This does not mean that they are not important but they are basically behind Ash and are not his equal in anyway. The beginning of the Japanese openings never said "Satoshi, Kasumi, and Takeshi". They always said "Satoshi". It wasn't until the Diamond and Pearl that it was changed to "Satoshi and Hikari". It was the Advanced Generation were they decided to share the main point of the series with another character, May. ''

:::Actually, she did greatly impact the series, as if it wasn't for her, Ash would have DIED. Since you guys are saying that he IS the Anime, then, if it wasn't for her, the anime would have ended right then and there. Besides, the only time relating to battles where the focus was undeniably on Ash was in the Leagues (The Gyms are debatable, as the Gym episodes seemed to focus more on the characters appearing than on Ash himself, or in the case of the Rudy Gym Episode, focused almost exclusively on Misty.). Besides, the point of the poll was how much screentime she really got compared to the Girls, and to be honest, I wasn't even anticipating the results to be as high as it was.

:::''You seem to be misunderstanding what I meant. I didn't mean every single episode is Ash focused. I'm saying that the anime in general is Ash focused.''

:::You said he was the "Absolute" main character, which, according to Webster, means everything. which, taking that definition into account, would imply that Absolutely every millisecond of every episode would be focused on Ash, which it really wasn't.

:::''To Bulbapedia's standards, an episode in which a main character catches a Pokémon, evolves a Pokémon, or releases a Pokémon is an automatic focus on a particular character. Regardless of what you think.''

:::Regardless if the episode focused 90% more on a Main Character other than Ash and Ash himself got only 10% when the capture/evolution/release episode was made (Like in the Charmander episode, even though Ash caught Charmander, it was more focused on Brock, as he was the one who reacted first to Damian's neglect, he's the one who cared for Charmander the most, he was the one who got extremely worried about Charmander when it left upon recovery to try and reunite with Damian. All Ash did throughout the episode was capture it [and, according to Brock, checked it's tail.].). That's crazy! I mean, Misty caught Psyduck, and I'll be the first to admit that the episode of it's capture barely even focused on her. If it even focused on anyone, it was Officer Jenny and Nurse Joy, which was a major reason as to why I didn't even include it.

:::''Yes, you are indeed Misty obsessed if you believe that she was more important of a character than Ash is. Even I don't say that about Tracey. If Misty was indeed the most important character of the series than why isn't she in it anymore? Why did the producers decide to keep Brock and not her?

:::Actually, I wasn't even thinking Misty was more important than Ash when I did this test. I just was doing it to measure the amount of character centric episodes Misty got in comparison to Ash (As well as the females in comparison to Ash as a whole.). heck, to be honest, I didn't even anticipate that Misty would get more episodes than Ash (The least I could predict was probably Misty: 45% Ash: 65%, if not 50/50.). The only reason why I had gotten the results to be 40:46 for Ash and Misty was because I didn't realize that someone had already listed the Johto Conference episodes as being Ash centric. Besides, if I was truly that which you described me as, I would have posted every single episodes that Misty ever appeared in as being a "Misty Centric" episode just because she appeared (Which I didn't and I actually gave reasons for why the episodes were focused on Misty or Ash.).

:::''So are you trying to tell me that what ever happened after the original series doesn't matter? That it doesn't matter that Ash continued to be in more episodes after Misty's departure. Get a clue. Ash is the center of the anime followed by Dawn and May then the other characters, which includeds Misty. Of course Team Rocket is up their with May and Dawn as the opposing side to the heroes. You need to except that. Just because Misty has a lot of fans doesn't make her more important in the series than Ash is. You are being way too baised in your decisions.''

:::No I wasn't. And anyways, if Ash was truly the center of the show as you claim, please explain to me why the writers actually considered replacing Ash twice. You know exactly what I mean, the special Raikou: The Legend of Thunder was released midway through Johto, where Ash wasn't even in that special, period, much less the Main Character, and some fans even stated that the special was a prototype for a series that wouldn't have involved Ash at all. Later, they revealed a Poster advertizing for a DP anime that had Dawn, Dawn, and Dawn alone on it, absolutely no sign of Ash on it, period. Some of the fanbase thought they were actually replacing Ash for the series because of that (and Dogasu even admitted that the reasoning behind the belief was legitimate). Now granted, they decided to keep Ash on, but the mere fact that they even thought of that special and making that Poster in that way implies that the writers felt that even Ash was expendable, which implies that, even back in the original series, Ash wasn't the star of the show (The writers wouldn't even THINK of doing the Raikou special if they felt that Ash was truly the star of the show.). So who's being more biased now? [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 14:28, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

You know Weedle, Ash IS the main character of the show. That doesn't mean he has to get the focus in ''every'' episode. It's on his goals that the anime revolves around not on any other characters. Its been like that since the beginning of the series. Ash always seems to be there when everyone else isn't. And the part about Misty saving Ash, do you really think a main character would '''die'''? That's never going to happen. Sure they may be life-threatening moments but they would never ''die''.

Naruto is a perfect example of being the main character but not given the focus in every episode. Its just like that with Ash. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 15:38, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
:I really don't think your experiment should have been done in the mainspace--[[User:RexRacer|'''Rex]][[Quilava (Pokémon)|Racer''']] [[User talk:RexRacer|'''''-talk''''']] 15:53, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

:Technically, he did die, twice. In the episode "The Tower of Terror", Haunter took Ash and Pikachu's souls out of their bodies after they caused the Chandelier to fall on them. The second time was in the first movie, where, after Ash got in the way of Mewtwo and Mew's attack, he turned to stone, couldn't awaken, and the only reason he was even alive now was because of the tears and he was, both clinically and truly, up to the point of the tears, dead. So, yes, they did "Kill" Ash.

:Anyways, not focusing on him is one thing, as there were plenty of episodes in the original series (a bit too much if you really think about it, even WITHOUT Misty), that didn't actually focus on him. No, my point was they not only were he was '''not''' focused upon in the ''[[The Legend of Thunder]]'' special, but he didn't even appear in it, period. A similar thing happened when they revealed that they had plans of making a DP Anime. They unveiled a poster of it, and the way they unveiled Dawn for the first time ever made it seem as though she was not only replacing Ash, but that Ash was NOT going to be appearing in the anime. That's my point. I mean, think about it, Even IF the writers didn't give Ash the focus in every single episode, if they felt that Ash was the Be-all-end-all of the show, why would they do [[The Legend of Thunder|a special]] that didn't even have a cameo from Ash, or a Promotional Poster for DP that focused on Dawn alone, and made it seem as though Ash was going to leave the Anime, and Dawn would take up the mantle of the star of the show. I mean, in the DP poster's case, it was one of the biggest discussions at the time. Those, to me, implied that the writers viewed even Ash as expendable.

:As for that comment for RexRacer, care to suggest where else I could put this experiment then? [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 16:02, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
::Sure at the time of the poster, people may have thought Ash was going to be replaced but the writers never specifically stated it. They may have been referencing the fact that a new girl is going to play a important role in the anime not as in being the only one. And Ash could not be in the Raikou special since he was at Hoenn at the time and the special happened in Johto. And you can't say from one incident that Ash is expendable. Again, I state the example of Naruto. There have been episodes in which he hasn't appeared at all.

Sure Ash may have kinda "died" but he always came back almost immediately instead of staying dead. Which means a ''lot''. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 16:14, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

:No, The Raikou Special actually took place (And AIRED in Japan, don't bring Chronicles into it) between Hatching a Plan, and Dues and Don'ts. And it wasn't a chronicles episode (Heck, Pokemon Hoso hadn't even been aired yet.). They even referenced several parts involving the special in the Johto League when Ash fought Jackson/Vincent.). As for referencing a new girl, They had a poster showing a new character named May and they had Ash with her as well when it was first unveiled, so that cannot be it.

:As for Naruto, were these main episodes, or were these episodes from a spinoff series similar to Hoso/Chronicles? [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 16:31, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
::Okay whatever. That doesn't mean that one special is enough to disprove Ash's status. The characters of the special hasn't been given a major appearance ever since then except Vincent but he appeared for one episode anyway. And for the poster thing, Dawn is kinda more important than May was. In all the DP movies, she is given equal importance with Ash unlike May who was only given importance in '''1''' movie.

::And the Naruto episodes were the main ones. I don't know if there were spinoffs but it doesn't matter. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 16:43, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

:::I think that a member of BMGf by the name of Rhyperior pointed out that it was Ash who saved Alamos/The world in Movie 10, and that Dawn ultimately took the back seat, anyways (The only remotely important thing that she did within the movie was save Ash) as it was Ash who told Pikachu and Pachirisu to reactivate the device, according to him, thus saving the world/Alamos, and he also scolded Palkia. Also, in the Shaymin Movie, other than the fact that she and brock tried to stop the Glacier (which even then, they weren't even the ones who actually stopped it, it was Regigigas), she didn't really do much. I mean, did she pair up with Ash and the two of them together, along with Shaymin, Muten, and Giratina, utterly defeat Zero? No, Ash was the one who ended up stopping him once and for all. So, in actuality, she actually had the same role May did, meaning she never was important to begin with. And, arguably, May wasn't given any importance in any movies, considering the fact that the climax of the 9th movie had her act like a total coward and didn't even attempt to save Manaphy (Instead, it was Ash who ended up saving the day, as usual.). So, in any case, I still say that Ash was expendable, as the character didn't appear, and the special, according to many, was a test to see what Audiences would feel, which implies that they had plans to replace Ash. Plus, the Poster, not to mention. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 16:58, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
::::Ash and Dawn were both on the tower activating the music device not Ash alone. It wasn't just Ash's Pikachu but Dawn's Pachirisu that also helped in it. In the Giratina movie, both Ash ''and'' Dawn went to the Reverse World not just Ash alone. She interacted with Shaymin almost as much as Ash. And how could you say May wasn't given any importance in the 9th movie? Its not about how she acted. A main plot point in the movie was May interacting with Manaphy and treating it like its mother. Whatever she did in the movie near the end doesn't matter since their relationship was shown for a major portion of the movie.

::::And like I said before, the writers haven't made any move to remove Ash from the story. The special is a seperate entity with its characters almost never appearing again in the anime. They may have looked to have tried a few attempts to remove him but the fact that they keep bringing Ash back show that he IS important. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 17:46, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
:::::Sigh, look, if you want to mention this to anyone, tell it to Rhyperior, assuming you are also a member of BMGf, all I did was just quote him. As for the part about the Reverse World, I know they both were in the Reverse world in the first visit, but during the second visit, it was Ash, and Ash alone who defeated Zero once and for all (Dawn was stuck trying to stop the glacier that, in the end, only Regigigas was able to stop, remember?). I mean, the summary of that movie even stated this.

:::::As for your point as to how she raised and interacted with Manaphy in the movie, if the same deal with Misty interacting with Togepi wasn't even considered even remotely important despite some episodes focusing on Togepi, then, Titular pokemon or not, her interacting with Manaphy isn't important either.

:::::As for thinking he's important, so what, Brock stays on the show for barely as long as Ash has, and he's not even as important as him, so Episode lengths aren't a detemining factor. And anyways, in order for someone to be a central character, not only do they NOT replace the character, they also are unable to even think about replacing it (Which, at least twice, they did think of replacing him.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 17:58, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Ash hasn't been replaced in the main anime. That's what matters not some random special. The anime is more important than the Chronicles or the raikou special. Its even more imortant than the movies. I know Brock has been there for a good portion of the series but he doesn't do that much anyway. This is Ash's story not anyone else's since he is in every episode.

Misty has interacted with Togepi to what extent in the movies? She practically just holds it for a major portion of the movies. May did a ''lot'' with Manaphy. It also helps that Manaphy is the titular Pokémon for the movie.

:Let's see, she fed it, she discovered some of it's metronome abilities, had it fight against Pikachu at one point, heck, her Togepi was also integral to defeating Colonel Hanson and reclaiming the Togepi Paradise. Besides, if we want to get technical, what did May ''actually'' do with it. She also, for the most part, held it, and heck, when it got kidnapped, what did she do? just stand there!

:They may not have done it, but they have certainly thought about it. I mean sure, they didn't replace him, but the point was they thought about replacing him. And anyways, considering how they referred to that special in the main series, anyways, it's a main series episode in and of itself. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 18:21, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
::I am talking about the movies. Misty hasn't done anything with Togepi in a movie. Sure Togepi has had its share of screentime in the anime but only in a few episodes. Out of the entire Johto season, Togepi might have had only less than 10 episodes that truly concentrate on it. It did ''nothing'' for the rest.

::And as long as Ash isn't replaced and keep appearing in every episode, he is the main character. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 18:28, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
Just so you guys know, the fact that this conversation is taking place is hilarious. I don’t even see why we have these categories that are almost solely based on opinion; it’s not as if we don’t have enough categories already (over two ''thousand''). [[User:IIMarckus|IIMarckus]] 19:08, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
:Well, in the Movies case, I can name one thing it did. It was implied that Togepi was the one who freed Zapdos and Moltres, as we saw it doing that "metronome" arm wave thing when Tracey told everyone to get down in regards to the whole Fire, Water, and Electricity combinations = an explosion. (In case you don't recall that scene, it's because 4Kids cut the scene out when they localized the film.). Besides, what did May do with Manaphy, anyways? I mean, she didn't battle with it (which is what the fanbase thinks of when they say "doing anything" in regards to a character.). And even IF Ash is the main character, the template already listed Brock, Misty, May, Dawn, and even the likes of Tracey, Max, and Todd as main characters, so either way, he's not THE main character (He's only A main character.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 20:55, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
::Again I state, as long as Ash keeps appearing in every episode in the main anime, he is the main character. Once he gets replaced, at least for a few episodes, then I will agree with you. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 08:17, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

== The reason ==

The reason why Brock, Tracey, and Misty had information about them getting replaced is because a staff member from the show actually explained the situation. The Dawn replacing Ash thing is all fan speculation and no one from the show EVER said that they were considering replacing Ash. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 21:52, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
:So What?! The GSDS article was still fan speculation in and of itself, and yet you freely chose to keep it on despite that. Heck, the whole Misty issue was actually placed into Misty's article BEFORE Masamitsu Hidaka's revalation. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 21:58, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

== Edit War ==

Thank goodness you guys somehow resolved it...under normal circumstances, you both would be blocked, depending on the amount of edits against...keep that in mind next time... [[User:Ht14|''ht'']][[User talk:Ht14|''14'']] 14:02, 25 December 2008 (UTC)
:I was just trying to put that out due to the fact that the circumstances of whether capturing them was the cause of the events of the second movie or if it was just territorial disputes (since the film implied that both were the cause.), and besides which, none of the Other times a Legendary bird was captured did a weather anamoly occur, which I pointed out with the events of Jack Walker capturing that Zapdos and riding it, as well as the fact that, other than the lake being almost a biological hazard, it's near-death didn't impact the weather. Jmath had to insist that they controlled the weather just because Lawrence III set the chain of events in motion (Even though Zapdos explicitly told Pikachu that it was conquering Fire Island, which definitely implied that Territorial disputes were a main cause of the events.) {{Unsigned|Weedle Mchairybug}}
::It doesn't matter. We resolved it. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 14:13, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

== Pokémon ==

Pokémon is not spelled "pokemon", it's "Pokémon". [[User:Chocolate|Chocolate]] ([[User talk:Chocolate|Chat with Me]]) 23:58, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
:I'm not sure if you should changed Haunter, but if you were to do it, you msut remember to chang it on Ash's page to be consistence.--[[Bulbapedia:Project Custom Sprite|☆]][[User:Tavisource|Tavis]][[User talk:Tavisource|ource]] 00:09, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

== Your trivia ==

The fact that multiple admins have reverted your edits to High Touch should be an indication that it is not needed. Please stop adding the information, as it is not relevant to anything. --[[User:PAK Man|PAK Man]] [[User talk:PAK Man|Talk]] 22:14, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

== That trivia ==

Let's put it this way...Take a small 5-6 year old kid. Ask him/her to do some advanced mathematics. Do you really expect the kid to suddenly do it. He just won't understand what you're saying to him. Does that make him disobedient??? Same with Psyduck. I don't remember any time where Psyduck actually battled with any determination to win. Its just basically clueless and once it gets a headache, it just releases its power. Chimchar also doesn't fall in the disobedient category. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 14:54, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
:It's disobedient, no matter whether it's intentional or not. Besides, if you want to get technical, Chimchar, during the events of ''[[DP081|Chim-Charred]]'', was very similar to Psyduck, and yet is also listed in it's trivia section as being the second fire type belonging to Ash that disobeyed him (and fourth of Ash's Pokemon overall to disobey him), the first being Charizard. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 15:46, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
::It's not disobedient because of ignorance, it's disobedient because of stupidity. That's different. -[[User:Sketch|Sketch]] 15:49, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
:::Were you talking to me or to Jmath? BTW, were you for the part of relocating of that trivia to it's own bit? Because it was still disobediance, therefore, Dawn's only the second main character other than Ash to have a disobedient pokemon, regardless of whether it's clueless or deliberate. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 15:51, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
::::I know I'm just getting involved because of RC watching, but my two cents is--who cares? Will this "(Character) is the (n)th person shown to have a Pokémon, in this case (whoever), disobey" format continue for ALL disobedient Pokés? If so, that seems...kinda unnecessary. -- '''[[User:evkl|evkl]]''' [[User_talk:evkl|(need to talk?)]] 15:57, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
:::::Well, I guess you might as well remove most of those things in Dawn's Trivia section, since almost half of it just compares her to some characters. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 16:03, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Read my first post. Its NOT disobedient. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 20:46, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
:Look, Obedience means following orders. It doesn't matter if the character is rebellious or just plan clueless, if they don't follow orders, they're disobedient. it's that simple. It's a moot point anyways, since Kenji-girl, one of the high ranking members of the site, has already stated that, whether he was intending to be disobedient or not, it still counted as a disobedient pokemon, and therefore, Dawn's only the second main character aside from Ash to own a Disobedient pokemon. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 20:54, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
::Could you blame a child for being disobedient for not knowing advanced mathematics??? Then why don't people punish them or something? [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 22:58, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
:::When did Ash actually punish Charizard? when did Dawn actually punish her Mamoswine? I don't recall them actually punishing their pokemon. In fact, the only character whom I would say actually punishes pokemon would be Paul. And anyways, no matter how hard you argue, unless you have another mod on your side, it's already written that Misty already owned a disobedient pokemon before Dawn ever appeared on the show (and considering how, like you, she also thought I obssess about Misty, that's saying quite a lot.) [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 23:04, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
::::Sure...Its real smart to punish powerhouses like Mamoswine and Charizard. They are going to eat you alive! And you still haven't answered my question. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 23:08, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
:::::Mamoswine is a vegetarian, so it can't eat dawn even if it wanted to (It's based off of the Wooly Mammoth, a herbivore.). You do have a good point on Charizard, though, though then again, Paul was known to punish any of his most powerful pokemon (I mean, he probably was going to do something bad to his Torterra when found oud it was teaching Ash's Grotle how to improve itself.). Anyways, I thought that question about Charizard and Mamoswine WAS my answer. either way, please stop, as Kenji-Girl had already agreed with me about the entire thing about Misty being the first main character other than Ash to own a disobedient pokemon. If you have a problem with it, take it to her. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 23:19, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

I looked up "disobedience" and it means '''willful''' refusal to follow orders. Chimchar and Psyduck both don't fall in this category. That proves your point wrong. [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 23:23, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
:even still, she still agreed with me, as, willful or not, it still didn't follow orders. Again, I suggest you take the complaint to Kenji Girl, as she was the one who agreed with my views and put the thing in. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 23:25, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
::So what? We have proof that Psyduck didn't "disobey". And Kenji-girl probably didn't know the exact meaning of the word. (I didn't until I looked it up) [[User:Jmath|'''Jm''']][[User talk:Jmath|'''a''']][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|'''th''']] 23:31, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

== Look ==

No matter how you twist it, it's still speculation. I've protected the talk page for now so it doesn't suffer anymore clutter. Now find something useful to do besides arguing with everyone. No one agrees with you. It's speculation. You can't compare speculation to fandom and fansite articles. So knock it off already. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 02:25, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
:Even IF everyone agreed with me, it's still speculation. And besides, Wikis ALSO have a code where they DON'T allow Fanwank on them. Also, Pokeshipping is still speculation, which means it shouldn't even exist on Bulbapedia. Besides, how is that confirmation from Hidaka not speculation. Heck, if I made something up in regards to my company and what we were doing, REGARDLESS if I was a CEO or not, I'm still speculating. This only proves that you don't know what speculation is, or even if you did, you're too arrogant to actually see it. I mean, heck, even you yourself bring in speculation into articles, should you be removed due to that? [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 02:31, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

:P.S. Another thing, seeing how WPM has actually BEEN with him, AND has had actual experience with the interview, it's NOT speculation. I mean, in order for it to be speculation on WPM's part, he has to not have been there, and only have heard of it. Even IF it were actually speculation, by that logic, seeing how the writers make mistakes in their judgement most of the time, even someone who works for the Pokemon Company/Gamefaqs is speculating, seeing how even they themselves don't know what's truly in store. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 02:36, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

::Why do I even waste time talking to you?
:#Shipping has its own space. We warn that it contains speculation.
:#If Hidaka actually confirmed something by speaking, such as the reason why Tracey replaced Brock, than it's not speculation. If he has a weird reaction to a question and you assume its because he's not allowed to speak of Platinum, than it is speculation. I don't care how much experience WPM has with interviewing people. He's not psychic. His thoughts are not confirmation.
:#I know what speculation is. You apparently can't tell the difference between fanon and speculation.
:#What speculation do I bring? Please show me. Not counting Shipping of course. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 02:42, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

::What are you talking about? I wasn't saying that he wasn't allowed to speak of Platinum. I was saying he didn't know about platinum. If anyone was actually saying he was not allowed to talk about Platinum, it was J-J-M. Stop crediting/blaming things on me that I didn't even do!
::And I don't care if Hidaka WAS the original director or not, What he says still counts as speculation, because he doesn't have absolute knowledge of the franchise.
::As for things like... your speculations, other than the Shipping part, you've speculated on comparisons between sonic characters and pokemon characters. Personally, I don't see why Shipping shouldn't count. I mean, if it's speculation, it's speculation, and if the rules absolutely forebade speculation, then Shipping articles shouldn't exist, period, no matter what your stance on them is. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 02:55, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
:::LOL that's what you're talking about? Those comparisons are on my USERPAGE. Userpages are NOT part of the mainspace. Neither is Shipping. Masamitsu Hidaka IS on the mainspace. Now I get it. You clearly don't know the difference between userpages and mainpages. Hey if you want to mention your speculation on whether he knew of Platinum or not, put it on your userpage. That would be acceptable. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 03:03, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
:::@Weedle-SHIPPING HAS ITS OWN SPACE. HOW MANY TIMES DOES SHE HAVE TO TELL YOU THAT? ''IT'S NOT IN THE MAINSPACE. NEITHER ARE USERSPACES''. AND TAKE AN ENGLISH CLASS! WITH ALL THOSE GRAMMATICAL MISTAKES, NO WONDER EVERYONE HATES YOU! DAMMIT FIND SOMETHING MORE CONSTRUCTIVE TO DO THAN F***ING ARGUING WITH EVERYONE, YOU...
@KG-What userpage? He doesn't even have one. [[User:Alpha Totodile|'''Alpha''']] [[User talk:Alpha Totodile|'''Totodile''']]
::::Now now, everyone, let's respect the {{bp|code of conduct|COC}}. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 00:38, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

== éééééééééééé ==

Use the '''é'''. It's Pokémon, not Pokemon. It's right there on the character palette begging to be clicked. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 00:23, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
:Remember this. I see you don't still use the é. By not using it, you cause extra work to other people correcting your grammar. Also, "dub" and "original" are not proper nouns. '''UltimateSephiroth''' ([[User:UltimateSephiroth|about me]] · [[User talk:UltimateSephiroth|chat]] · [[Special:Contributions/UltimateSephiroth|edits]]) 21:42, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

== Your grammar ==

is absolutely horrendous. The amount of times people have had to point out your grammar mistakes--the spelling of Pokémon, the difference between it's and its, and random capitalization--is absolutely ridiculous. I speak on behalf of all of the community here at Bulbapedia: it's time for you to actually heed warnings and make improvements. If any of us don't see any honest improvement with your edits, it will become a punishable offense. You must learn the rules of grammar--because the lack of proper grammar makes this site seem like it is run by a bunch of ten-year olds. ''[[User:Maverick Nate|'''Maverick''']][[User talk:Maverick Nate|'''Nate''']]'' 15:04, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

== Reverting ==

If an edit of yours is reverted, it's a bad idea to go back and undo it. If you really feel that strongly about your edits, discuss it on the talk page. Don't get into an edit war. --[[User:PAK Man|PAK Man]] [[User talk:PAK Man|Talk]] 16:24, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
:I discussed it on DP049 with other users. In fact, it happened long before the League was even planned out. But just in case, I made a response on [[Talk:DP049]], where we did have this discussion. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 16:32, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

== Norman ==

Can you tell me where Norman actually says he is supposed to be the third Gym Leader faced? In the games and in the anime, he winds up fifth in each case, and IIRC his only reference to three (see my edit to [[Badge]]) is in AG003 saying three Pokémon are needed. If he does say he's supposed to be third, I'd like to know where because I've never seen that. If my understanding is correct, Hoenn is therefore handled by Ash and his friends like all regions before it (Norman came fifth because they were "near Petalburg" again, which doesn't make sense in the games; convenience, I guess, in the anime), and Norman's Gym requirements are the only thing that stopped him challenging there first. [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 15:52, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
:That might have been a mistake (claiming he was actually supposed to be the third gym leader, I mean). But Norman DOES state in the ending of the episode that Ash was supposed to actually challenge him later on, and then points to Rustboro as being the first gym Ash should face. That would imply that there was indeed supposed to be a specific order trainers were supposed to face the gyms, at least in Hoenn. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 15:58, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
::[https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=R3vMoSgzBIM#t=1166 Here's the episode.] I set it to start at the beginning of the final segment, but you can watch it in full if you'd like. Norman NEVER said he should be challenged later on. If you can show me where he says it, then that's fine, I just don't see what you say proven in the anime. [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 16:07, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
:::This is from the summary of the episode on this website: "Later back in front of Norman's Gym, Norman explains that he's actually a Gym Leader Ash is supposed to fight later on. The first Gym he should try is the one in Rustboro City" This is right near the end. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 16:07, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
::::I'll visit there, then. Here are Norman's lines from the ending:
::::*"Your brother does know a lot about Pokémon and just might be a big help to you."
::::*"Ash, would it be too much of a bother if Max traveled along with you and May?"
::::*"I have a little something to give the both of you: a badge case to hold your winning Gym badges." (A grammar error here, too.)
::::*"And son, this is for you."
::::*"With one of those, you'll always know exactly where you are."
::::*"I suggest that you first travel to the closest Gym from here, and that's located in Rustboro City."
::::*"You do your best!"
::::Nothing about being faced later, so I'll go edit that article too. Thanks for the tip. [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 16:16, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
Never mind, that's another Website. I think I've proven that the other Website is not reliable. Do you have a link? [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 16:17, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
:Never mind again, I've edited [[AG003]]. [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 16:20, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

== Blocked ==

Weedle, you have been blocked for a duration of seven days for your edit war on [[Mewtwo Returns]]. You are well aware that edit warring is not permitted on Bulbapedia, and that the proper course of dispute resolution is to use the article's talk page to discuss the changes in dispute. Take this time to re-familiarize yourself with Bulbapedia policy. Thank you, - [[User:Kogoro|'''Kogoro''']] '''-''' [[User talk:Kogoro|'''Talk to me''']] - 22:14, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

== Pocket Monsters: The Animation ==

Can you refer to it as ''[[Pocket Monsters: The Animation]]'' so that it shows up on the wanted pages and shows that it needs to be created? Also, do you personally have a copy of the book? --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 02:04, 20 September 2015 (UTC)
:Sure thing, I'll do that in my next edit. Also, I don't personally have a copy of the book, but I do know someone who does: http://cindysuke.tumblr.com/post/34817930237/the-facts-about-pokemon-world-lol [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 02:06, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

== The Preview Button ==
Instead of editing a page several times in a row, try using the preview button to make sure your edit looks the way you want it to. It's right next to the Save Page button. Please try it out, so as not to clog up the Recent Changes. Also, if you want to edit multiple sections of the page, make sure that you click "edit this page" at the top of the page rather than editing it by section. Thanks! --'''—★[[User:Reshii|レシイラム]]''''''[[User talk:Reshii|talk]]''' 11:16, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

== TV Ratings ==

Do you have a source for that? If you do, then state the source. Don't make other users guess and think that it's BS. If the source is Dogasu, then state that you got it from Dogasu. You have been here longer the I have to know that you should always source your information.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 04:35, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

== Serebii ==

Hi! I just want to make sure you know that we cannot take any information from Serebii as it appears you have done for [[Special:Diff/2462919|this Simisear information]]. If you see something on Serebii, make sure you can source it elsewhere first, and even then make doubly and ''triply'' sure that whatever you end up writing here still does not end up copying Serebii. Again, we ''cannot'' take things from Serebii. I hope you understand. =) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 23:21, 25 June 2016 (UTC)
:[[Special:Diff/2500010|This]]... Just to hammer this home: '''''NOTHING''''' is ever to be taken from Serebii, '''''period'''''.
:So, tell me... What is your source regarding XY137? Is it just Serebii? [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 15:05, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
::Serebii made it pretty clear that it came from Newtype Magazine. Here's what it had to say of the episode:
::"'''The Newtype magazine in Japan has revealed another new episode title, this time for the fourty-fourth episodes of Pokémon XY & Z.''' These episodes is set to air on October 6th, following another week break on September 29th. This episode features Clemont helping rebuild Lumiose City Gym after the Team Flare attack.
Episode 940: We Start at Zero! Clemont's Decision!!"
::If that doesn't qualify as a source besides Serebii, I don't know what does. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 15:20, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
:::I'm honestly just disappointed, Weedle. You have been here for a good amount of years and are still making the most simplest of mistakes. Serebii does not qualify for a source, regardless of what he says. He doesn't even post an image of the magazine scan, so no, it's not clear it came from a magazine scan. Saying something does not immediately make something true if you don't show the evidence.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 15:28, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
::::Given your comment [[Special:Diff/2499984|here]], I was also curious where you got "はじまりはゼロ！シトロンの決断！"? [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 15:31, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
:::::I got it here: http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/XY137 [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 16:53, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
::::::Pokemon Wikia isn't a credible source either, because they could add that title just like you could add it here. It isn't an official website. Once there's a picture for the title, it will be posted. [[User:Playerking95|Playerking95]] ([[User talk:Playerking95|talk]]) 16:58, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
:::::::In short, keep in mind that these things should always be ''verifiable''. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 17:02, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

I'd like to add, if your only source for English translations of new episode titles is Serebii, please don't try to use that (even changed a bit) to add the episodes here. That's still basically copying Serebii. Just leave it until someone else can make an independent translation. At worst, post the sources somewhere and let someone else create the episodes with independent translations. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 17:07, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

== PokeSpe reference ==

You are not right by saying that the implication of Silver being Giovanni's son in FR/LG and the subsequent confirmation of this fact in HG/SS is a PokeSpe reference in the games. It was the games that first mentioned the fact. PokeSpe decided to make Silver Giovanni's son only in FR/LG Chapter, which was after the release of FireRed and LeafGreen. So, it is the manga that referenced the game, not the other way 'round. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 16:14, 24 August 2016 (UTC)

== New episode pages ==

When creating a new episode page, please use the {{template|New episode}} template. Otherwise, you get copy/paste errors like with what you did for [[XY138]] and [[XY139]]. Thank you. --[[User:Carmenstar97|Carmen★]] ''[[User talk:Carmenstar97|(Talk |]] [[Special:Contributions/Carmenstar97|contribs)]]'' 13:33, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

== Linking moves ==

Whenever you're linking to a move article, it's important to use the <nowiki>{{m}}</nowiki> template, as shown, to avoid using redirects. For example, <nowiki>{{m|Dark Void}}</nowiki> is the correct usage, not <nowiki>[[Dark Void]]</nowiki>. Just so you know. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 00:16, 30 September 2018 (UTC)

== English Celebi ==

Are you playing a game set to the Japanese language or a system and game from the Japanese region? I have doubts about Celebi having English text for the Japanese region. '''[[User:Lady Ariel|Lady]] [[User talk:Lady Ariel|Ariel]]''' 02:00, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
:I'm playing an English game set to the English language and I downloaded the game from the Nintendo eShop channel on the English Nintendo 3DS. Nothing Japanese at all regarding the game (well, aside from it in general was originally made in Japan, I mean.). I also managed to [https://otnesse.tumblr.com/post/179272822979/proof-that-the-wondercard-description-is-in photograph] it as well. Sorry for it being low quality, but I'm not sure how to get it directly from the game a'la Serebii.net. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 10:01, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
:EDIT: Sorry, now I see what was going on. Shouldn't have done that, dang it. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 10:03, 21 October 2018 (UTC)

== Link templates ==

Hey! I'm going to have to encourage you to read the site's {{bp|list of link templates}} again. Using <nowiki>{{an|Rotom Pokédex}}</nowiki> or simply <nowiki>{{Rotom}}</nowiki> is highly encouraged, not <nowiki>[[Rotom Pokédex (anime)|Rotom]]</nowiki>. Thank you. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 20:24, 6 October 2019 (UTC)

== Using Serebii as a source ==

Once again, you are using Serebii as a source when you know full well that he is not a valid source. It doesn't matter if he's right, just do no use his site as your source. Period. Your source should be the official Japanese site, not someone repeating what the Japanese site is saying.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 13:49, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

== "Advantage" ==

While I acknowlege some of your Team Rocket vs. Caterpie argument, "advantage" doesn't mean that Ash was guaranteed to beat Misty; it simply means that he was objectively in a favorable situation prior to the battle being interrupted (and since this was acknowledged by both Trainers, it's not simply speculation). I decided to rewrite that particular part entirely anyway, but I just wanted to clarify that. In the future, please try to use the talk page instead of edit warring (although I admittedly shouldn't have made that last revert either, so I apologize for that).

Additionally, I never claimed that you were being biased: I actually think you removing the previous wording of "about to win the battle" was the right decision, hence why I decided to try slightly rewording it instead. However, if you're going to say things like "regardless of my views on Misty", "even IF I believed Ash was owed a genuine win", and "my own personal views on the match were irrelevant"... of course I'm going to begin to question if you're truly attempting to be impartial here (especially given your history of Misty-related edits over the past 15 years). [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 10:18, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

:Fine, I'll grant you that much regarding your points, and that your wording was better. Though to be fair, Caterpie was also in extremely low health at that time as well thanks to its earlier near-death against Pidgeotto and... well, you know the rest of that battle and how it turned out for everyone involved (and it was also fairly explicit that it was weak even before the fight against Pidgeotto, much less Team Rocket. After Ash's attempt at capturing Pidgeotto outright without weakening it first just resulted in it escaping easily, Misty reminded him that he needed to battle it first, and also specifically stated the only reason Caterpie got easily captured without a fight was because it was already weak beforehand). I might be fanatically loyal to Misty, I'll admit that much, but I still would have avoided using "advantage" even if I had the exact opposite emotional views of Misty (and in fact, back when I was still on Bulbagarden and the discussion popped up whether Ash or Misty would have won, I gave pretty firm arguments why it wasn't necessarily confirmed Ash was going to win, and made it very clear that my being a Misty fan had absolutely nothing to do with my rationale, and that if anything my rationale actually was tied far more to something that happened with Ash than it ever did with Misty and then cited that particular battle. Granted, PDL pretty much mocked my argument when I cited that battle, but still...). Yes, it's true that Starmie was explicitly low on health, but it's also true that it was still close enough to the water's edge that it merely needed to hop back in and regenerate, though it might need a bit more effort to pull it off. And I mostly had to mention that stuff repeatedly in case someone DID try to accuse me of being biased towards Misty due to past experiences on Serebii, Pokecommunity, and BMGf where they did repeatedly do that. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 02:50, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
::A bit late on this one to reply (eh, still less than 6 months), but your talk page comment for Misty's Starmie (which I replied to, but I figured it would be appropriate to go into a bit more detail here) got me to rewatch EP007 in both Japanese and English, and I believe you misremembered Staryu's situation. What Staryu was actually doing when it dived into the water was negating the usage of Stun Spore and Sleep Powder (kind of similar to Natural Cure, but with water rather than switching out), not healing itself, so the argument that Starmie could still regenerate itself in the water doesn't really hold up. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 22:46, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
:::I didn't actually mention Staryu at all in that argument (my main focus was Starmie, and if anything I didn't even CONSIDER Staryu's earlier dive into the water to alleviate itself of Stun Spore.), and for the record, Starmie's core wasn't even damaged (ie, it didn't crack. The blinking light simply meant it was low on health), which is the only way it won't be able to heal at all barring maybe a Pokemon Center. And even if we were to somehow use that rationale for how it doesn't hold up, Bye Bye Butterfree made it very explicit that Starmie (and presumably Staryu) most certainly can heal itself (and by that, I specifically mean heal its HP back upwards, not simply negating a status effect) when exposed to water, at least as long as its core was intact (there was a scene during Ash, Misty and Brock's confrontation with Team Rocket over the poached Butterfree where James used a sledgehammer on Starmie, landed a direct hit on it and sent it flying into a wall, causing it to slump down in a similar manner to its situation in Waterflowers of Cerulean City, then Misty grabbed a water cannon (presumably from within Team Rocket's hideout) and proceeded to spray a torrent on it, and then it came right back to full strength). And that's not even getting into how Starmie's Pokedex entries back then make it explicit that it can regenerate as long as its core remains intact. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 09:36, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
::::"''I didn't actually mention Staryu at all in that argument (my main focus was Starmie, and if anything I didn't even CONSIDER Staryu's earlier dive into the water to alleviate itself of Stun Spore.)''"
::::You may not have mentioned Staryu, but [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=EP007&diff=3592528&oldid=3592393 you stated here that Starmie could recover by jumping into the pool], which is what Staryu did earlier to negate Stun Spore/Sleep Powder, so I don't feel like it was unreasonable for me to assume that you used Staryu as a basis for that. If that's not the case, then I apologize.
::::"''For the record, Starmie's core wasn't even damaged (ie, it didn't crack. The blinking light simply meant it was low on health), which is the only way it won't be able to heal at all barring maybe a Pokemon Center.''"
::::I'm pretty sure my stance from the very beginning was simply that Starmie was in an objectively disadvantageous position. I never mentioned anything about its core cracking.
::::"''And even if we were to somehow use that rationale for how it doesn't hold up, Bye Bye Butterfree made it very explicit that Starmie (and presumably Staryu) most certainly can heal itself (and by that, I specifically mean heal its HP back upwards, not simply negating a status effect) when exposed to water, at least as long as its core was intact (there was a scene during Ash, Misty and Brock's confrontation with Team Rocket over the poached Butterfree where James used a sledgehammer on Starmie, landed a direct hit on it and sent it flying into a wall, causing it to slump down in a similar manner to its situation in Waterflowers of Cerulean City, then Misty grabbed a water cannon (presumably from within Team Rocket's hideout) and proceeded to spray a torrent on it, and then it came right back to full strength).''"
::::Bit of a sidenote, but it was Jessie that used the sledgehammer. As for the rest: I mentioned this on the talk page for Misty's Starmie as well, but I don't think using future episodes is the greatest counterargument. There are many instances of Pokémon displaying a certain trait for the sake of the progression of the episode, only for it to never be used again (which I'm pretty sure is also what happened here as well).
::::"''And that's not even getting into how Starmie's Pokedex entries back then make it explicit that it can regenerate as long as its core remains intact.''"
::::Those are Staryu's Pokédex entries you're thinking of, which is specifically for lost appendages rather than fully healing itself.
::::My main issue with your argument is that it's built too much on theoretical scenarios rather than what was actually presented within the episode itself. Sure, it's true that Starmie didn't "lose", but I never claimed that it did. I only stated that it was in an disadvantageous situation, which was acknowledged within the episode itself.
::::Also, you mentioned earlier that people have called you biased on Serebii, PokeCommunity, and the Bulbagarden forums. I only say this to try to offer some constructive criticism, but if there are three separate communities saying the same thing, I fear that there may be some truth within their words. If your initial talk page post on Misty's Starmie had been something like "Misty didn't really lose since the battle was interrupted, but I agree that it needs to be rewritten", I would completely understand. Instead, your post contained a fairly lengthy paragraph about the exact circumstances of the battle, theoretical ways in which the battle could have progressed, and a comparison to a separate episode. I feel like that's a bit much considering Temari44 only mentioned the Gym battle in a small part of their post. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 11:55, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
:::::"''You may not have mentioned Staryu, but [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=EP007&diff=3592528&oldid=3592393 you stated here that Starmie could recover by jumping into the pool], which is what Staryu did earlier to negate Stun Spore/Sleep Powder, so I don't feel like it was unreasonable for me to assume that you used Staryu as a basis for that. If that's not the case, then I apologize.''"
:::::I guess you could say Staryu might have been a factor, but even without Staryu, the episode Bye Bye Butterfree already made clear it can fully heal from being exposed to water. And that's not even getting into how Generation III later had Staryu and Starmie have an ability to outright heal from water type attacks (and it wouldn't be the first time they did abilities for Pokemon based on an earlier episode. See Rhydon and it having Lightning Rod as an ability in a direct reference to the infamous Aim for the Horn situation during Blaine's Gym Battle).
:::::"''I'm pretty sure my stance from the very beginning was simply that Starmie was in an objectively disadvantageous position. I never mentioned anything about its core cracking.''"
:::::It still would have been a definite factor in whether or not Starmie would have been in a disadvantageous situation or not (and I define "disadvantageous" as "absolutely no way to get out of trouble", not "small chance of getting out of trouble" but "literally 0% chance"). The only time where being exposed to water DIDN'T heal it was during the battle against Giselle when it was knocked into the pool (which, BTW, the person specifically referenced and I even agreed with him), and even there it was explicitly shown that Starmie's core had been smashed beforehand (which actually backs up its Pokedex entry if anything). If they wanted to actually indicate Misty was inevitably going to lose, they should have made sure to have Starmie's core explicitly crack from impact and then flash to imply that the core was damaged and thus cannot heal. And I realize full well they acknowledged it was that, but that unfortunately isn't enough since I've seen plenty of instances where they outright state an opponent is at a disadvantage with the person winning attempting to press the attack, only for the winning individual to end up defeated at the last second (like Tealc's fight against that fake Jaffah rebel leader for example, or to keep it contained to Pokemon like how Caterpie defeated Jessie and James, heck, how Ash turned the tide against Jessie during his Viridian Gym Match), or otherwise it being made clear afterwards that they weren't in any danger and just trying to increase drama [the latter bit I'm specifically thinking of how Gotenks in an attempt at staging a dramatic finish exaggerated how Super Buu is cleaning his clock, only for Piccolo to take it seriously and seal the Hyperbolic Time Chamber and it then being revealed after the fact that Gotenks was actually bluffing about losing meaning Piccolo blew up the entrance for nothing].). I would have said the same thing if it were Ash and Pidgeotto in their shoes (well, okay, maybe not quite to that level since unlike Starmie, Pidgeotto doesn't heal from absorbing water).
:::::"''Bit of a sidenote, but it was Jessie that used the sledgehammer. As for the rest: I mentioned this on the talk page for Misty's Starmie as well, but I don't think using future episodes is the greatest counterargument. There are many instances of Pokémon displaying a certain trait for the sake of the progression of the episode, only for it to never be used again (which I'm pretty sure is also what happened here as well).''"
:::::Fine, I stand corrected regarding who used the sledgehammer, but my point still stands. And for the record, what you used as a counterargument is a very bad argument in itself, since I can easily use that exact argument to just shut down the wiki altogether and delete all articles precisely BECAUSE they do progression and never bring it up again, thus can't qualify as facts, thus can't allow for an encyclopedia or even summaries (I'm an all or nothing kind of guy). Either way, the fact that Staryu and Starmie later on got Water Absorb would indicate they thought specifically of that scene when deciding on those abilities for them (similar to Rhydon having Lightning Rod), so more likely than not it has that ability. Heck, Misty's Starmie's article even specifically noted that it carried at the very least a similar ability to Water Absorb and cited that particular scene.
:::::"''Those are Staryu's Pokédex entries you're thinking of, which is specifically for lost appendages rather than fully healing itself.''"
:::::Being the evolved form of Staryu, I'm pretty sure Starmie probably retained that ability. Heck, its article even indicated it had regenerative abilities as well.
:::::"''My main issue with your argument is that it's built too much on theoretical scenarios rather than what was actually presented within the episode itself. Sure, it's true that Starmie didn't "lose", but I never claimed that it did. I only stated that it was in an disadvantageous situation, which was acknowledged within the episode itself.''"
:::::As I stated above, the problem is that there have been plenty of instances where they stated they were in a disadvantageous situation in an episode or even a game (both inside the Pokemon anime and even in other franchises), yet the person at a disadvantage outright prevailed against the superior opponent, so that unfortunately isn't even enough to acknowledge that bit (as when I think of disadvantageous situations, I specifically have in mind instances where there's no way to get out of trouble, and by "no way" I mean literally 0% chance of survivability, let alone prevailing.). That's why I still think the situation was very ambiguous ESPECIALLY given Starmie's later being revealed to have a similar ability to Water Absorb during the events of Bye Bye Butterfree. Heck, if anything, Ash's Caterpie came far closer to actually BEING in an explicit disadvantageous situation when he fought Ekans, Koffing, and Meowth due to having the entire deck stacked against him (aside from the illegal at the time 2-on-1 match that Team Rocket forced Ash into, their Ekans and Koffing had significantly more experience than it, plus the fact that both were Poison-types, which gave them a type advantage over his bug-type status, and they had even managed to easily take out Ash's Pidgeotto, who at that time nearly made Caterpie its lunch thanks largely to Ash's stupidity earlier, and that's not even getting into how it was close to fainting by that point thanks to that earlier battle, and even without the Pidgeotto battle was weak enough that Ash didn't even need to battle it just to capture it. Note that I said "came far closer to", not actually WAS a disadvantageous situation, because ultimately Caterpie prevailed).
:::::"''Also, you mentioned earlier that people have called you biased on Serebii, PokeCommunity, and the Bulbagarden forums. I only say this to try to offer some constructive criticism, but if there are three separate communities saying the same thing, I fear that there may be some truth within their words. If your initial talk page post on Misty's Starmie had been something like "Misty didn't really lose since the battle was interrupted, but I agree that it needs to be rewritten", I would completely understand. Instead, your post contained a fairly lengthy paragraph about the exact circumstances of the battle, theoretical ways in which the battle could have progressed, and a comparison to a separate episode. I feel like that's a bit much considering Temari44 only mentioned the Gym battle in a small part of their post.''"
:::::Hey, I tend to get very detailed in my replies. It's basically a quirk of mine due to both my aspergers and also my parents specifically demanding I get more detailed in my answers rather than saying "just because", "I felt like it", or even going extremely general about who "they" are when I say "people". As far as that big about Bulbapedia, Pokecommunity, and Serebii.net, usually it's just the same people who happen to be members of all three sites, and either way, just because three entities claim something doesn't necessarily make it true. Just ask the coverage about the Vietnam War by the major networks. All showed the worst aspects about Vietnam, yet it eventually came to light that all of them, especially the so-called "most trusted man in America" Walter Cronkite, were extremely biased against the war and in Cronkite's case may have even up and out lied through his teeth during the Tet offensive. A similar story can be shown with the Trayvon Martin case. And I only replied in that sense because he specifically said that Misty lost that battle (and I wasn't even disagreeing with his overall argument that Misty's Starmie was weak. If anything, I fully agreed with his argument, including its loss against Giselle's Graveler, and only had a minor quibble with Misty's Starmie being stated to have lost the Cerulean Gym battle, and that's only because there was literally nothing to suggest it lost before Team Rocket interfered.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 21:36, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
::::::"''I guess you could say Staryu might have been a factor, but even without Staryu, the episode Bye Bye Butterfree already made clear it can fully heal from being exposed to water. And that's not even getting into how Generation III later had Staryu and Starmie have an ability to outright heal from water type attacks (and it wouldn't be the first time they did abilities for Pokemon based on an earlier episode. See Rhydon and it having Lightning Rod as an ability in a direct reference to the infamous Aim for the Horn situation during Blaine's Gym Battle).''"
::::::Neither Staryu nor Starmie have Water Absorb as a possible Ability.
::::::"''It still would have been a definite factor in whether or not Starmie would have been in a disadvantageous situation or not (and I define "disadvantageous" as "absolutely no way to get out of trouble", not "small chance of getting out of trouble" but "literally 0% chance").''"
::::::The definition of disadvantage is "an unfavorable circumstance or condition that reduces the chances of success or effectiveness"; it does ''not'' mean "0% chance of prevailing". Misty's Starmie was explicitly stated to be low on energy (but not actually knocked out), which means it was at a disadvantage.
::::::"''The only time where being exposed to water DIDN'T heal it was during the battle against Giselle when it was knocked into the pool (which, BTW, the person specifically referenced and I even agreed with him), and even there it was explicitly shown that Starmie's core had been smashed beforehand (which actually backs up its Pokedex entry if anything).''"
::::::I'm fairly sure that this "water healing" attribute was only ever displayed once in EP021. I don't think it makes a lot of sense to say "the only time where being exposed to water DIDN'T heal it" when it only happened ''once''.
::::::"''If they wanted to actually indicate Misty was inevitably going to lose, they should have made sure to have Starmie's core explicitly crack from impact and then flash to imply that the core was damaged and thus cannot heal. And I realize full well they acknowledged it was that, but that unfortunately isn't enough since I've seen plenty of instances where they outright state an opponent is at a disadvantage with the person winning attempting to press the attack, only for the winning individual to end up defeated at the last second (like Tealc's fight against that fake Jaffah rebel leader for example, or to keep it contained to Pokemon like how Caterpie defeated Jessie and James, heck, how Ash turned the tide against Jessie during his Viridian Gym Match), or otherwise it being made clear afterwards that they weren't in any danger and just trying to increase drama [the latter bit I'm specifically thinking of how Gotenks in an attempt at staging a dramatic finish exaggerated how Super Buu is cleaning his clock, only for Piccolo to take it seriously and seal the Hyperbolic Time Chamber and it then being revealed after the fact that Gotenks was actually bluffing about losing meaning Piccolo blew up the entrance for nothing].). I would have said the same thing if it were Ash and Pidgeotto in their shoes (well, okay, maybe not quite to that level since unlike Starmie, Pidgeotto doesn't heal from absorbing water).''"
::::::Again, a disadvantage is not an unwinnable situation. I also don't think the Gotenks situation is comparable since it was made clear to the readers/viewers that he was faking it even before Piccolo destroyed the door (and truth be told, Gotenks ultimately ''did'' fail to beat Super Buu because he's an idiot and refused to actually take the fight seriously until much later). [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 22:59, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
::::::"''Fine, I stand corrected regarding who used the sledgehammer, but my point still stands. And for the record, what you used as a counterargument is a very bad argument in itself, since I can easily use that exact argument to just shut down the wiki altogether and delete all articles precisely BECAUSE they do progression and never bring it up again, thus can't qualify as facts, thus can't allow for an encyclopedia or even summaries (I'm an all or nothing kind of guy).''"
::::::I'm sorry, but I feel like this is a huge stretch. My argument is based on information specifically presented in the episode itself, while yours is theorizing on how Misty could still make a comeback based on information ''not'' presented in the episode. I don't see how Starmie displaying a one-time attribute of being rejuvenated from a water blast in a later episode should be used as an argument for the Gym battle; Misty never said anything like "If I can just get Starmie into the water, I still have a chance".
::::::"''Either way, the fact that Staryu and Starmie later on got Water Absorb would indicate they thought specifically of that scene when deciding on those abilities for them (similar to Rhydon having Lightning Rod), so more likely than not it has that ability. Heck, Misty's Starmie's article even specifically noted that it carried at the very least a similar ability to Water Absorb and cited that particular scene.''""
::::::Just to reiterate: '''Neither Staryu nor Starmie have Water Absorb as a possible Ability'''. Their regular abilities are Illuminate and Natural Cure, along with gaining Analytic as a Hidden Ability starting with Gen V.
::::::"''Being the evolved form of Staryu, I'm pretty sure Starmie probably retained that ability. Heck, its article even indicated it had regenerative abilities as well.''"
::::::Again, this is used in the context of lost body parts. It's certainly not something like an immediate healing factor.
::::::"''As I stated above, the problem is that there have been plenty of instances where they stated they were in a disadvantageous situation in an episode or even a game (both inside the Pokemon anime and even in other franchises), yet the person at a disadvantage outright prevailed against the superior opponent, so that unfortunately isn't even enough to acknowledge that bit (as when I think of disadvantageous situations, I specifically have in mind instances where there's no way to get out of trouble, and by "no way" I mean literally 0% chance of survivability, let alone prevailing.). That's why I still think the situation was very ambiguous ESPECIALLY given Starmie's later being revealed to have a similar ability to Water Absorb during the events of Bye Bye Butterfree. Heck, if anything, Ash's Caterpie came far closer to actually BEING in an explicit disadvantageous situation when he fought Ekans, Koffing, and Meowth due to having the entire deck stacked against him (aside from the illegal at the time 2-on-1 match that Team Rocket forced Ash into, their Ekans and Koffing had significantly more experience than it, plus the fact that both were Poison-types, which gave them a type advantage over his bug-type status, and they had even managed to easily take out Ash's Pidgeotto, who at that time nearly made Caterpie its lunch thanks largely to Ash's stupidity earlier, and that's not even getting into how it was close to fainting by that point thanks to that earlier battle, and even without the Pidgeotto battle was weak enough that Ash didn't even need to battle it just to capture it. Note that I said "came far closer to", not actually WAS a disadvantageous situation, because ultimately Caterpie prevailed).''"
::::::Again, a disadvantage is not an unwinnable situation, just a situation that is harder to win from. There's nothing wrong with saying that Starmie was at a disadvantage, since that's what was displayed and stated within the episode itself.
::::::"''Hey, I tend to get very detailed in my replies. It's basically a quirk of mine due to both my aspergers and also my parents specifically demanding I get more detailed in my answers rather than saying "just because", "I felt like it", or even going extremely general about who "they" are when I say "people". As far as that big about Bulbapedia, Pokecommunity, and Serebii.net, usually it's just the same people who happen to be members of all three sites, and either way, just because three entities claim something doesn't necessarily make it true. '''Just ask the coverage about the Vietnam War by the major networks. All showed the worst aspects about Vietnam, yet it eventually came to light that all of them, especially the so-called "most trusted man in America" Walter Cronkite, were extremely biased against the war and in Cronkite's case may have even up and out lied through his teeth during the Tet offensive. A similar story can be shown with the Trayvon Martin case.'''''"
::::::This is an ''extreme'' comparison. One person's conduct on the Internet in regards to a fictional character from an anime is not at all equivalent to '''war or murder'''. At the very least, it's undeniable that a lot of conflict that you've run into on these sites are related to Misty (honestly, I can just look at earlier posts on this very talk page even before this particular discussion started). It's one thing to claim that you're not being biased and another to actually showcase that you're not being biased. You even admitted earlier that you're "fanatically loyal to Misty". [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 22:59, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
:::::::If I were to be biased regarding Misty, I'd have rewritten every loss she had to be eradicated and thus indicated she never lost (either that, or if I genuinely hated Misty, rewrite everything to outright EXAGGERATE her loss ratio to imply she has a similarly bad track record to Team Rocket). Not only did I not do that, I actually agreed with the guy who tried to defend Starmie's overall track record that the Giselle bit WAS indeed a loss (a story-required loss, yes, but a loss nonetheless, and if I agreed that the Giselle bit was a loss, that is indeed showcasing I'm NOT biased. Someone who truly IS biased towards Misty in terms of liking her would never agree to her having a single loss at all). No, I'm not being biased, even if I do have fanatical loyalty to Misty (someone who's truly biased would literally rewrite the entire wiki to either avoid listing any, and I do mean literally ANY flaws she might have, or exaggerate her flaws to such a degree that they come across as the absolute worst person to ever live). Heck, I have an absolute hatred of May and to a lesser extent Dawn, yet you don't see me editing their articles to paint them in the absolute worst light imaginable (which WOULD be the very definition of bias, BTW). If anything, I AM attempting to be VERY objective in my edits especially regarding Misty. Also, a huge amount of stuff on here literally only happened in single episodes, or so few episodes that they barely even matter, yet they're still noted as actually having happened as if they had any importance, so that's far from a rebuttal regarding whether or not Starmie could indeed heal from it (and once is more than enough to indicate it would happen). I might as well also point out that I focus on the connections between generalities and details, so I DON'T limit myself to whether it's demonstrated in a single episode or not. Otherwise, Ash's Ho-Oh connection is meaningless since they never bring it up since the beginning of DP, and his Aura abilities also only showed up a few times in DP. And I do agree ultimately Misty's Starmie was weakened, but we have no conclusive proof that it would have lost, period, hence why I tried to rewrite it the way I did earlier as that's the only actual way to write it. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 02:13, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
::::::::Everything that you're describing is simply bias taken to the logical extreme (i.e. to the point of being completely unreasonable), which is an exaggeration and doesn't actually disprove whether or not you're partial to Misty (which I think is fairly obvious at this point). Again, what's important in this instance is the info presented in the episode itself, which is less speculatory than thinking of ways that Misty "could" win or not. Again, I never said she actually lost. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 03:27, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

== Pokémon ==

When writing "Pokémon" or "Poké", don't forget to write the "e" as "é". Also, the word "Trainer" is capitalized. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 00:06, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

== Sensational Sisters ==

There's no indication in Japanese or English that Misty "quit" being a Gym Leader; she simply says that she left her sisters in charge of the Gym. Please don't just plainly revert me and discuss things on the talk page first. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 12:13, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
:I watched both Japanese with Subs and the English dub with Closed Captioning, and this is what she says when the topic is brought up:
:"When I saw you [Satoshi] battling, I just couldn’t sit still! So I left Hanada Gym to my sisters and set off on a journey."
:"After watching your [Ash's] battle, I just couldn't stay still a second longer! And so, I left the [Cerulean] Gym with my sisters in charge, and started a journey!"
:And while it's true that it doesn't use the exact word "quit" in there, it's pretty clear that's what's being implied especially when past episodes have made it clear that you can't engage in a Pokemon Journey while you're a Gym Leader (in fact, such a restraint was made explicit as early as [[EP005|Showdown at Pewter City]] from both Flint AND Brock, and I think Candace and Zoey both alluded to this restraint in that episode of Diamond and Pearl.). Besides, no one talks like that about a position they simply were on temporary leave from (I sure don't). That sounds more like the kind of talk a guy gives when he's about to quit his job for a better one. A good contrast would be her reappearance in Alola (second one) where she explicitly stated that a major part of why she went to Alola besides visiting Ash was to take a break from the swarms of Gym Challengers that were arriving. Either way, she definitely never mentioned the gym at all in JN147, much less resuming gym duties (the most we got was Brock eagerly telling Misty to say hi to her sisters for him before Croagunk toxic stabbed him), and considering most instances she either explicitly mentions she has to resume gym duties when she departs (Mirage Kingdom Arc, the Kanto, Alola arc) or otherwise its made very clear she had to resume Gym Duties (beginning of Battle Frontier where Daisy basically called Misty and threatened to hand badges out again if she didn't return, Mastermind as well since it's made explicit she was only there due to being invited alongside Oak and was most likely going to return to the Gym afterward), the fact that she makes absolutely NO mention of gym duties at all means she most likely wasn't going back to being a Gym Leader that time. Let's not forget, Brock also returned to Pewter City in the same episode, and he's repeatedly stated to no longer be a Gym Leader and thus obviously wasn't going to be resuming gym duties. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 12:29, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
::Most of what you've outlined is your own headcanon with no real proof that she quit being a Gym Leader, which you also just admitted to.
::''"I watched both Japanese with Subs and the English dub with Closed Captioning, and this is what she says when the topic is brought up:''
::''"When I saw you [Satoshi] battling, I just couldn’t sit still! So I left Hanada Gym to my sisters and set off on a journey."''
::''"After watching your [Ash's] battle, I just couldn't stay still a second longer! And so, I left the [Cerulean] Gym with my sisters in charge, and started a journey!"''
::Yes, I also watched both. Again, there's no mention of her quitting.
::"''And while it's true that it doesn't use the exact word "quit" in there, it's pretty clear that's what's being implied especially when past episodes have made it clear that you can't engage in a Pokemon Journey while you're a Gym Leader (in fact, such a restraint was made explicit as early as [[EP005|Showdown at Pewter City]] from both Flint AND Brock, and I think Candace and Zoey both alluded to this restraint in that episode of Diamond and Pearl.).''"
::I'm pretty sure that you just can't leave a Gym '''unattended''' without another Gym Leader looking after it. Brock was able to leave on a journey after leaving Pewter Gym in Flint's care (and Lt. Surge also left Vermilion Gym in Visquez's care while he went on his own journey). Both Flint and Brock were considered official Gym Leaders even as late as DPS02.
::"''Besides, no one talks like that about a position they simply were on temporary leave from (I sure don't). That sounds more like the kind of talk a guy gives when he's about to quit his job for a better one. A good contrast would be her reappearance in Alola (second one) where she explicitly stated that a major part of why she went to Alola besides visiting Ash was to take a break from the swarms of Gym Challengers that were arriving.''"
::Firstly, you can't claim that "no one talks like that about a position they simply were on temporary leave from" when plenty of people watched that episode without ever getting the impression that she "quit". Secondly, this is speculation.
::"''Either way, she definitely never mentioned the gym at all in JN147, much less resuming gym duties (the most we got was Brock eagerly telling Misty to say hi to her sisters for him before Croagunk toxic stabbed him), and considering most instances she either explicitly mentions she has to resume gym duties when she departs (Mirage Kingdom Arc, the Kanto, Alola arc) or otherwise its made very clear she had to resume Gym Duties (beginning of Battle Frontier where Daisy basically called Misty and threatened to hand badges out again if she didn't return, Mastermind as well since it's made explicit she was only there due to being invited alongside Oak and was most likely going to return to the Gym afterward), the fact that she makes absolutely NO mention of gym duties at all means she most likely wasn't going back to being a Gym Leader that time. Let's not forget, Brock also returned to Pewter City in the same episode, and he's repeatedly stated to no longer be a Gym Leader and thus obviously wasn't going to be resuming gym duties.''"
::Most of this is speculation (outside of her not mentioning resuming Gym Leader duties). However, my reworded edit didn't say that she resumed her duties, just that her sisters look after the Gym when she's away.
::I also maintain that you should not have reverted me twice before going to the talk page. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 13:16, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
:::Actually, Brock was repeatedly considered an ex-Gym Leader/Former Gym Leader by the Alola, Kanto arc (more specifically, the episode where Brock and Misty show them the ropes at Cerulean Gym regarding gym battles), which was well after the events of DPS02. I'd know, I watched it on PokemonTV when it came out with closed captioning. Even made particular note about that bit. Only Misty was specifically stated to be an actual current Gym Leader in that episode. And last I checked, Giovanni didn't explicitly make Jessie, James and Meowth Gym Leaders (they merely assumed they became Gym Leaders) and if anything his orders to them made it sound as though he specifically wanted them to guard against a possible attack on the Gym ("Use these [Pokemon] in the event of an emergency!"). And as far as Lt. Surge is concerned, quite frankly, ESPECIALLY after Brock was explicitly considered a former Gym Leader, ie, one who is no longer a gym leader at all, that means Lt. Surge isn't a gym leader by that point either (besides, Flint's not even a Gym Leader anymore, Forrest is). And I still stand by my statement that there's no way Misty would say something like that if she wasn't quitting the position. And BTW, that stuff I described wasn't headcanon. That was evidence directly from the episode and related episodes. Want to know what ACTUAL headcanon is? Misty's parents being murdered by Team Rocket members and her nearly being killed by them as a baby, and then being adopted by the Sensational Sisters, stuff that had literally no basis whatsoever from the series and something I made up in its entirety (and yes, I actually DID write that as a fanfic). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 13:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)